“Immanuel” hasn’t come yet
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This famous passage from Isaiah has always been used by Christians to confirm the virgin birth of Jesus, and identify the Messiah. Jewish interpretations indicate it was referring to a son that would be born to King Ahaz or to the prophet Isaiah. Was either one correct?
Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
This is the traditional English translation of this passage in Isaiah.
Let us start at the beginning, and put this in context.
Level One – historical context
The nation of Israel had been divided into a northern kingdom (confusingly called “Israel,” Ephraim, or 10 tribes) and a southern kingdom (Judah and Benjamin, 2 tribes)
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The 2 kings of Syria and Israel (Ephraim, northern kingdom) had joined forces, to come against King Ahaz of Judah (southern kingdom).
Isaiah was a prophet to the southern kingdom of Judah. He was sent by God to tell king Ahaz of Judah not to be afraid. God is promising that these other 2 kings will not defeat, and take over Judah.
Isa 7:1 And it came to pass in the days of Ahaz the son of Jotham, the son of Uzziah, king of Judah, [that] Rezin the king of Syria, and Pekah the son of Remaliah, king of Israel, went up toward Jerusalem to war against it, but could not prevail against it.
Isa 7:2 And it was told the house of David, saying, Syria is confederate with Ephraim. And his heart was moved, and the heart of his people, as the trees of the wood are moved with the wind.
Isa 7:3 Then said the LORD unto Isaiah, Go forth now to meet Ahaz, thou, and Shearjashub thy son, at the end of the conduit of the upper pool in the highway of the fuller’s field;
Isa 7:4 And say unto him, Take heed, and be quiet; fear not, neither be fainthearted for the two tails of these smoking firebrands, for the fierce anger of Rezin with Syria, and of the son of Remaliah.
Isa 7:5 Because Syria, Ephraim, and the son of Remaliah, have taken evil counsel against thee, saying,
Isa 7:6 Let us go up against Judah, and vex it, and let us make a breach therein for us, and set a king in the midst of it, [even] the son of Tabeal
Isa 7:7 Thus saith the Lord GOD, It shall not stand, neither shall it come to pass.
The next passage is prophetic. It predicts the lifetime of Ephraim (Israel, northern kingdom) as only 65 years from that date. This proved true in history, as Syria eventually overcame this territory, creating bondage for those captured, and the Diaspora, which continues to this day.
Isa 7:8 For the head of Syria [is] Damascus, and the head of Damascus [is] Rezin; and within threescore and five years (65years) shall Ephraim be broken, that it be not a people.
In the next section, the Lord encourages Ahaz to ask for a sign, Ahaz refuses, and so the Lord just gives the sign anyhow, that what He, the Lord, says is true.
Isa 7:10 Moreover the LORD spake again unto Ahaz, saying,
Isa 7:11 Ask thee a sign of the LORD thy God; ask it either in the depth, or in the height above.
Isa 7:12 But Ahaz said, I will not ask, neither will I tempt the LORD
Isa 7:13 And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; [Is it] a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also?
Here is the sign that the Lord gave king Ahaz as assurance that the 2 kings would not take over Judah. While King Ahaz was alive, this promise was kept.
Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin [maiden] shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Isa 7:15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.
Isa 7:16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that you abhor shall be forsaken of both her kings.
Now, stop for a moment. This sign can only possibly point to the sons of 3 people. A son the mother would name Immanuel? So see how the prophecy lines up with them:
1. a. King Ahaz had a son, called Hezekiah, not Immanuel (2 Kings 16:20)
b. Prophet Isaiah had a son, called Maher – Shalel – Has – Baz, not
Immanuel (Is 8:3)
c. Mary and Joseph, had a son, called Jesus (Yehsua), not Immanuel.
2. Notice the child would live during a time of prosperity for Israel, so that children would eat delicacies. During the time of Ahaz and Mary and Joseph, Judah was under pressure from enemies and not prospering as an independent entity.
3. While the child is still very young, the land north of Ahaz with the 2 kings would be forsaken. History proves this true, as the land was eventually devastated within the 65 years prophesied.
Looking past Level One.
So what happened to the son named Immanuel? Who is this child? Is this child a person, or a symbol of something else? Not even Jesus was once called Immanuel during his lifetime, or thereafter.
If one looks further, Immanuel is only mentioned once more, in all of scripture. It is a reference to a future time, when Judah is actually invaded by the king of Assyria, as Judah becomes sinful, like the northern kingdom.
Isa 8:8 And he [king of Assyria] shall pass through Judah; he shall overflow and go over, he shall reach [even] to the neck; and the stretching out of his wings shall fill the breadth of thy land, O Immanuel.
Is the name Immanuel reserved for someone who is present during this next invasion? Israel has been invaded multiple times, but so far, no one named Immanuel was there to respond. When Jesus was here, it was the Romans that had invaded, not the Assyrians. What time is this in reference to?
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Level Two – modern times
Take a look at this verse again. I have added extra dimensions to it, based on all meanings of the Hebrew words used.
Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign;
Behold, a virgin [young woman, a maid, or marriageable age, or newly married]
shall conceive,
and bear [ bring forth, travail, produce in distress, declare one’s birth]
a son,
and shall call [ to make a loud call, to summon, invite, call unto for help]
his name Immanuel.
Where else have we seen this prophecy about the young woman and child in scripture?
Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
Rev 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and [to] his throne.
This young woman is the united Israel as a people. She was born in 1948. She is travailing in pain, calling out for her Messiah, to deliver her from the King of Assyria.
She will be the one to call her Messiah Immanuel, which means God with us.
She seems to loose this Messianic hope as the child is taken away from her, so soon after the birth of the hope. The dragon uses politics, and the hate of her neighbors, to rob the woman of her land, the womb that gives forth her hope, and devour the child.
Israel first lost 2/3 the British mandated land within a year of issue in 1921. The UN Partition plan in 1947 took another half of what remained, and gave it to the Arabs. Jordan then attempted to annex the West Bank in 1949. This lasted until 1967, when in the 6 day war, Israel got its property back. Israel then returned the Sinai area in 1982 in a peace agreement. The Palestinian authority then took hold of more property, rebelled against Israel rule, and initiated ongoing terrorist attacks.
Just as Israel once before saw her child leave her, and ascend to heaven 2000 years ago, modern Israel is seeing her child leave her again, as the dragon continually attacks her and robs her of her hope.
How can she hold on to her child as her womb (land) is constantly wounded, torn apart, divided, and given to her enemies?
Compare the divided land in the time of Ahaz to modern Israel. This is the womb of the Messiah. It is divided, so it cannot bring forth the child.
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The child is the hope and land of her Messiah. Only When Israel is reunited with her child, and the Messianic hope becomes a reality, will she give Him the name she is destined to give Him – Immanuel !!!
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Level Three – the 65 years and the near future
Can a prophecy be fulfilled twice? Invasions are not new to Israel. Will something happen to the West Bank, which for all practical purposes is the “northern part” of Israel (similar geographically to the ancient Ephraim, northern kingdom)?
How long will God allow Israel’s enemies to hold onto the womb of the young maiden Israel?
Isa 7:8 For the head of Syria [is] Damascus, and the head of Damascus [is] Rezin; and within threescore and five years (65 years) shall Ephraim be broken, that it be not a people.
Is there a time limit to this Palestinian occupation of the land of Israel?
The land was first partitioned in 1947, and reinforced in 1949. Could the 65 year promise be renewed once again? Only time will tell.
1947 + 65 = 2012
1949 + 65 = 2014
With things the way they are, how could this happen?
Well, we are still waiting for the Gog and Magog (Ezechiel 38) invasion of Israel, which, by the way would fulfill the Assyrian king invasion of the Isaiah prophecy as well. What is nice about this war, is that, despite terrible odds, Israel is victorious.
This would be a good time to reclaim land. This would be a good time to heal the womb of Israel, and reinstate the hope of the Messiah.
This victorious time would be a good incentive for the final aliyah, the final return of all remaining Jews to Israel, in preparation for its Messianic destiny.
Is it possible that the young maiden Israel, who has given up her child unto heaven as a deferred hope, can call Him back again at this time?
If so, maybe we will finally hear the name Immanuel being called unto, and spoken by the woman Israel, toward the child that delivers her.







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“Immanuel” hasn’t come yet « Heaven Awaits said this on October 4, 2008 at 9:40 pm |
is “Immanuel” the destined Jewish name and acknowledgment of Jesus the Christian savior? does this mark the return of Jesus and the Jewish acceptance of their Savior?
Hi Looseassociations
It seems like the messiah will not become real to them until they call out to him, and recognize him for who he is….Immanuel.
it is at that point where Jews and Christians become one under One Messiah.
blessings
marianne
thank you, yes. this is how we will be brothers and sisters with the Jews, because we will be all be the spiritual children of Abraham by faith.
God bless.
Interesting Idea, but a lot of scripture has several thousand years in one verse. Take Isaiah 61 for example:
The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is on me,
because the LORD has anointed me
to preach good news to the poor.
He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted,
to proclaim freedom for the captives
and release from darkness for the prisoners, [a]
2 to proclaim the year of the LORD’s favor
and the day of vengeance of our God,
to comfort all who mourn,
Jesus fulfilled the first part 2000 years ago, yet the second will come to pass when he comes back on the day of his vengeance.
Also, many prophecies about Jesus’ first coming were in the middle of other texts which had no application to that text. The 30 pieces of silver prophecy, as well as many of the texts in the Psalms.
Note the progression of Isaiah 7-11
Isaiah 7: A virgin shall give birth to Emmanuel: “God with us.” Jesus was God with us. But in that day the Lord will use the king of Assyria to invade Emmanuel’s land. That day will be the day of the Lord and the King of Assyria will be the Antichrist who invades Israel.
have seen a great light; to us a child is born, to us a son is given,
Isaiah 8: The earth will be in utter darkness (the condition at the Lord’s return)
Isaiah 9: Nevertheless, there will be no more gloom for those who were in distress.(the time of great distress) but in the future he will honor Galilee of the Gentiles,(Jesus was from Galilee The people walking in darkness(of Isaiah
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, [b] Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. And Every warrior’s boot used in battle and every garment rolled in blood
will be destined for burning,will be fuel for the fire: a direct parallel to Ezekiel 39!
Isaiah 10: The Assyrian Antichrist is destroyed.
7 Of the increase of his government and peace
there will be no end.
He will reign on David’s throne
and over his kingdom,
establishing and upholding it
with justice and righteousness
from that time on and forever.
The zeal of the LORD Almighty
will accomplish this.
And indeed, after Armageddon, where every warrior’s boot will be burned, his government shall never end. The child’s that is.
Hey Al,
I know that Jesus was the one referred to in Isaiah, it is just he was never called by that name while he was here the first time.
This prophecy will not be fulfilled in its exactness, until ISRAEL – the virgin country with a pure heart – calls out for her Messiah during the coming time of trouble. When it does, it will meet the same Jesus we know.
So it is then that Israel will call Jesus Immanuel, which will be the first time for him to be called that as he is physically present on earth.
WE do call him that, but we are not the virgin mother. WE call him that looking to his future role here on earth. He is gone for now and will return for good. When he is here for good, He will then be called “God with us,” because he actually will be WITH us.
Make sense? Maybe I should try to clarify this in the above text. I am really getting picky here about a small detail. Did not want to make it confusing.
blessings
marianne
Please, my sister, there is a huge lack of reading the bible. You said that Immanuel, is not reffered to Jesus in new testament , please read:
Matthew 1:20 As he considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream. “Joseph, son of David,” the angel said, “do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife. For the child within her was conceived by the Holy Spirit. 21 And she will have a son, and you are to name him Jesus,[i] for he will save his people from their sins.”
22 All of this occurred to fulfill the Lord’s message through his prophet:
23 “Look! The virgin will conceive a child!
She will give birth to a son,
and they will call him Immanuel,[j]
which means ‘God is with us.’”
May God Bless you!
Hi Marianne.
This was confusing, it is hard grasp,but is very interesting. Thank you for sharing.
God Bless
Please, my sister, there is a huge lack of reading the bible. You said that Immanuel, is not reffered to Jesus in new testament , please read this:
Matthew 1:20 As he considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream. “Joseph, son of David,” the angel said, “do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife. For the child within her was conceived by the Holy Spirit. 21 And she will have a son, and you are to name him Jesus,[i] for he will save his people from their sins.”
22 All of this occurred to fulfill the Lord’s message through his prophet:
23 “Look! The virgin will conceive a child!
She will give birth to a son,
and they will call him Immanuel,[j]
which means ‘God is with us.’”
HI Naconeski,
I tend to present different dimensions of traditional views. I agree that Jesus was destined to be Immanuel, but he was also destined to come twice. The first time, he came as a Redeemer for our sins, and was crucified, and left. Jesus was called Jesus during his life, not Immanuel. When people wanted to make him king, he refused, because he was not coming in the Messiah role yet. That was meant for the second trip here.
To Christians, Jesus will always be Immanuel, but he will not come in that role until he returns the second time to conquer evil and rule as Messiah. At that time, he will not come as a man who gets killed, but as Immanuel, and this will not be questioned, like it was the first time. The entire world will call him Immanuel then.
Sorry for my refutation , but the name , is the less thing here as was called Immanuel in matthew 23. All the future prophecies about him , was made by himself in matthew 24 , and John made in Revelation, when he will come as a king and Judge. I particularly don´t believe that he will come the second time only to Jews. But for those , including gentiles who didn´t accept him before the tribulation.. We read in Romans 2:28-29:
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
In the Old Testament, God commanded that all the male blood descendants of Abraham were to be circumcised (Genesis 17:4), and that law is still followed today by the Jews. Everyone who is a blood descendant of Abraham is a physical Jew. The Jew that God talks about in this passage is the person who has come to trust in the Lord Jesus.
Bout he as a known king:King of Jews (KJV)
Matt.2
[2] Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
Matt.27
[11] And Jesus stood before the governor: and the governor asked him, saying, Art thou the King of the Jews? And Jesus said unto him, Thou sayest.
[29] And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews!
[37] And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS.
Mark.15
[26] And the superscription of his accusation was written over, THE KING OF THE JEWS.
Mark.15
[32] Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.
John.12
[13] Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Those who didn´t believe him as king , would not believe today also, because they are infidels. Do you really believe that all jews will be safe?
May God Bless!
Zachariah 9 :The Coming of Zion’s King
9 Rejoice greatly, O Daughter of Zion!
Shout, Daughter of Jerusalem!
See, your king [b] comes to you,
righteous and having salvation,
gentle and riding on a donkey,
on a colt, the foal of a donkey.
10 I will take away the chariots from Ephraim
and the war-horses from Jerusalem,
and the battle bow will be broken.
He will proclaim peace to the nations.
His rule will extend from sea to sea
and from the River [c] to the ends of the earth. [d]
11 As for you, because of the blood of my covenant with you,
I will free your prisoners from the waterless pit.
12 Return to your fortress, O prisoners of hope;
even now I announce that I will restore twice as much to you.
13 I will bend Judah as I bend my bow
and fill it with Ephraim.
I will rouse your sons, O Zion,
against your sons, O Greece,
and make you like a warrior’s sword.
The LORD Will Appear
14 Then the LORD will appear over them;
his arrow will flash like lightning.
The Sovereign LORD will sound the trumpet;
he will march in the storms of the south,
15 and the LORD Almighty will shield them.
They will destroy
and overcome with slingstones.
They will drink and roar as with wine;
they will be full like a bowl
used for sprinkling [e] the corners of the altar.
16 The LORD their God will save them on that day
as the flock of his people.
They will sparkle in his land
like jewels in a crown.
17 How attractive and beautiful they will be!
Grain will make the young men thrive,
and new wine the young women.
Hi Naconeski
Jesus will return for Israel, the Jews, and anyone who calls upon His name. Those who rejected Jesus 2000 years ago were few in number, as most did accept him. They are all dead now. This is a new and different generation, and they are actively looking for their Messiah. They just have not figured out it is Jesus yet. Remember that Jews have suffered under persecution by Christians in the past, which has put up an obstacle to belief. It will take time and love to break down this wall, and the wall is falling now. More and more Jews are becoming more open to the gospel.
The testimony about himself , jesus gave when he gone down to hell and preach to the deads( 1 peter 3:18 and 4:6). I disagree that the most accepted him. As we can see: John 1.10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.
About persecution of Jews by Christians, when it happened?
For me are two categories of people for God: Believers and non believers. Jews will not be saved if they don´t accept Jesus ( I know you think the same thing). Billy grahan said the contrary, but he is in apostasy.
Sorry if my Arguments seem to be angry , I´m not fighting or something like. English is not my first language, so sometimes I get lost in nuances
Peace , sister!
hi naconeski
persecution of jews by christians have been going on for almost the entire 2000 years;
abandonment of Jewish believers by gentile believers occurred at the beginning, and all hebrew roots of the faith were condmened
christian antisemitism enabled Hitler to kill 6 million Jews.
Martin Luther was viciously antisemitic
During the crusades, Jews were tortured into converting. The choice was also get baptized or die. During Easter celebrations, they were rounded up and beaten, since they deserved it as murderers of Christ.
Bernard of Clarvaux, a monk, called the Jews evil stupid beasts. Popes continually condemned Jews. Pope innocent III ruled that Jews should be degraded, and ostracized from business, to deny them economic needs. Jews were forced to wear “badges of shame” on their clothing.
Synogogues were burned with the Jews inside. Their holy books were burned, and they were under threat of death if they taught Judaism. The young ones were used as slaves.
Then there was the Spanish inquisition. More Jews were murdered. Forced conversions, or death. The catholic church called them Marranos, which means pig. It was common to make the sign of the cross on the Jews, and then whip them30,000 were murdered by the catholic church. in 1492, all Jews were expelled from Spain.
The catholic church is repsonsible for millions of Jews being murdered in history, and the protestants have also helped. The history is too long to put here.
read this book
“Our Hands are stained with Blood” by Michael Brown.
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Yes , I know these histories, and it is very true. But I don´t believe this is the reason why they don´t accept Jesus. They are not victms. Nor the Arabics are. They have pride. As all other humans who dont accept Jesus. Luther was important for Christianism, but he was not perfect He said things agains James book in the bible. If jews would be converted just by receiving help, they would be all Christians, after USA( Christian nation) defend all that Israel does.
What on earth are you talking about? The Messiah has already come in the form of Jesus Christ. His coming was prophesied in the Old Testament and confirmed in the New. Christ as the Lamb of God was born to a virgin. When Christ comes back as the Lion of Judah he will come from heaven, he will not be born of a virgin.
Matthew 1:18-23 NIV
This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit. 19Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly.
20But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. 21She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus,[c] because he will save his people from their sins.”
22All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: 23″The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel”[d]—which means, “God with us.”
You are trying to deceive people big time. If people believe your version of the Messiah then they will be deceived by the Anti-christ whom the Jews will believe to be the Messiah.
John 5:42,43 NIV
but I know you. I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts. 43I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him.
Hi Contender.
I love Jesus as my Messiah. I know he has already come. But he will not really be recognized as Immanuel until he returns in his glory. The first time, most rejected him, and they did not call him Immanuel. When he said he was the son of God, they accused him of blasphemy. The next time he comes, he will not have this problem.