“Seed Time and Harvest” – False doctrine of money
First, some scriptures
Mark 4:14-20
The sower sows the Word of God…and these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, satan comes immediately, and takes away the word that was sown in their hearts….and these are they likewise which are sown on stony ground; who, when they have heard the word, immediately receive it with gladness….and have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution arises because of the word that was sown, immediately they are offended….and these are they which are sown among thorns; such as hear the word….and the cares of this world, the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful….and these are they which are sown on good ground; such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirty fold, some sixty, and some an hundred.
**Here it is clear that the seed is the Word of God, not money.
Galatians 6:7-9
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man sows, that shall he also reap….for he that sows to the flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that sows to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting (absolute life, the anointing, power of the Holy Spirit)….let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not (if we stay constant, and don’t quit).
**This is a spiritual kingdom, so sowing spiritually is not sowing money, because that is of the material world.
Matthew 13:24,25
The Kingdom of Heaven is like when a man which sowed good seed in his field….and his enemy comes later to sow bad seed in with the good.
*** The devil will help you sow the wrong way, so you loose everything. Is that what you want?
2 Corinthians 9:9-12
It is written, He hath dispersed abroad; He hath given to the poor: His righteousness remains for ever….now He that ministers seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness….being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causes through us thanksgiving to God….for the administration of this service not only supplies the want of the Saints, but is abundant also by many thanksgivings unto God.
** again, ministering seed to the sower does NOT mean funding multi-million dollar mansions, Armani suits, and Mercedes benzes. “Seed,” again, is the word of God, not money. Even ministers have to be fed the word, which is every believers duty, to encourage and assist one another. We are all ministers…..!!!!! Here, if one reads both chapter 8 and 9 in context, we can see that this text is to request help for needy saints in a different location. Hence, the mention of “bread.” The idea is to help the others with basic necessities such as food, so they could continue to sow the word of God. The idea was that all would equally share what they had with one another. It was NOT to support one person with money to pay for all sorts of material comforts, having more than everyone else, at the sacrifice of others who would have to do without, to support a comfortable, easy life.
Genesis 8:22
“While the earth remains, Seed time and harvest, And cold and heat, And summer and winter, And day and night Shall not cease.”
** yes, there is a natural seed time and harvest of living things, and the spirit is life also. Only living systems can produce a harvest, not dead things like paper money.
Enter “man” assigning money as the definition of seed
Oral Roberts and his fellow money preachers have been claiming that his seed faith doctrine has “worked” for 60 years…. How does it “work”? They equate themselves as equal to God….so if you give money to them, it is the same as giving money to God…once you have given to them (God), then you should expect a 100 fold return in your investment. They will tell you that good seed are good thoughts and good deeds, which contradicts Matt 13. which says that the good seed are the children of the kingdom, which are sent (sowed) to bring in more children (harvest) through their testimony(their word – seed).
Oral Roberts tells you to “aim your seed” at a certain request or petition for help. If you goof this up, then God will not help you. Sowing seed and aiming it is WORK, and bribing God to do your will.
Most people cannot stand in front of thousands, and assert that giving to them is equal to giving to God, so this technique will not work for most people.
Duh !!
BUT, if it is working so well for preachers, why do they constantly ask for money? The money was sown to God, not the general public, so the money should come from God, not people. They have to keep asking for money when a 100 fold return should take care of them for a long time. They are asking you to sow something that has no life. Money is a dead object.
These preachers are preying on the flesh of man, who wants money and power. People who fall prey to this false claim are setting themselves up for financial distress.
Let’s get real people !!!!
Stop and think for a change…….What is a seed?
In the natural, it is something that has the potential to reproduce itself, with the correct nurturing environment, without human intervention. The ability to reproduce itself indicates that it is a life unto itself…..
Apples, grain, flowers, human life, all have this capacity……Jesus also taught that words have life, and that he was the Living Word from Heaven, and that the Word gave life, as bread gives life to those who eat it….
Money does NOT have this capacity…it has no “life,” ……it requires human intervention, and manipulation for any investment to grow. If you planted this in the ground, it would rot.
Does God expect man to sow money? If yes, then he should have also instructed us to sow other inanimate objects, such as bricks, stones, jewels, coins, etc.
Obviously, God is smart enough to know that only life produces more life…and non-living objects do not constitute life……In the parable of the sower and the reaper…Jesus did not have the man sow coins into the soil, because that would not have produced anything. He used live seed, which he said represented the Word of God.
All through the teachings of Jesus….the “seed” mentioned represents the Word of God, NOT money. To teach that it represents money is pure heresy.
This is what the prosperity pimps do not want you to know.
The devil sows too!!!! The devil sows heresy…..to replace the truth…..
Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked [one]; Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
This is a description of the end of the Age………not the present day. It’s a description of final judgment, not an excuse not to judge the tares when it becomes obvious they are tares because they no longer resemble the wheat.
Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Think for a moment…….
Jesus was poor
The apostles were poor
They gave everything. ..and they all suffered and died…..
They did not live preaching money, or giving to get back…..they preached the kingdom of God, a spiritual kingdom, not one made of money. They also taught that if one would just seek first the kingdom of God, and its righteousness, then ALL things would be added to you as needed.
Only outsiders of a kingdom have to bring offerings to a king to obtain favor. His own children do not need to do this. They already have favor. So, if we just ask in faith, and forget the money trap, God will provide for us. Jesus reminded us that even the birds of the air and the lilies of the field do not sow nor reap, yet the heavenly Father takes care of them. Aren’t we worth more than them? If so, then bringing money to attach to a petition, or “aim the seed” is unnecessary. Planting and sowing seed to obtain favor with God and answers to prayer is WORK. We are under grace now.
references (giving and receiving heresy)
http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cache:I5u5z0sYxogJ:www.cultlink.com/ar/TBNbed.htm+oral+roberts+seed+time+harvest+false+doctrine+clean+temple&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us
Click here to read about un-biblical tithing.
I accept that it is correct doctrine THOSE WHO SEEK MONEY ARE FALSE PROPHETS
I accept your views regarding money
I agree with your speaking up about the “false doctrine of money”
Some of the churches I’ve visited gave me the impression that Jesus had told the young rich man “Go and sell all that you have and give it unto some slick talking prosperity preaching rich man” and then forget about the poor living in your midst while the extravagant church building plans continue.
Thank you. People will always be able and free to give as God directs…to the poor and needy, to spread the gospel in an efficient, and humble way.
These churches need to do what Jesus really said to the rich man. The problem is, they’ll say “money answereth all things” to justify themselves. I’ve heard Creepyflo Dollar quote that (in Proverbs, I think) while people go to the altar and, no, not repent, but lay money down. These are the ones who’ll take the Mark of the Beast when he does away with money and makes his claim to divinity.
Hi Herbert,
Thank you for your comment.
I hope that more people start helping those who are really in need, and not waste it on the rich.
It is wonderful to view those that also understand the scriptures and can identify the enemy that sows destruction. The false shepherds and hirelings of this modern era continue to compell many to trust in the riches of this world. This present world however is not our inheritance, for we look for a New Heavens and New Earth, the things of this world are temporal and breed corruption. Satan has truly transformed himself into a minister of light appearing to be an agent of the gospel, yet through the lusts of the flesh he has deceived many. Those that are of the apostate church continue to be led by the Prince of this World to follow a path that leads to death and destruction. We as children of the light and the day must stand in the gap and fight against these enemies of truth. The watchman is accountable to God and must sound the alarm and wake up them which are slumbering. Shalom, Baruch Ha Ba B’Shem Adonai, Peace be with you, blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. Yeshua will soon make an end to all these wolves who seek to prey on the sheep. Blessings to all who continue to fight the good fight and remain stedfast in the work of our faith until the King of Glory sounds the Shofar and our gathering together commences in the clouds of heaven.
Rodney,
Todah rabah תודה רבה
for the continued beneficial comments, for others to read and think about.
Instead of keeping our eyes on the money, we should be keeping our eyes on the sky.
blessings
marianne
Right on the mark. Well written. I pray many will take heed.
Hello Rev. Williams
It is a pleasure to have you visit here. Thank you for your comment.
blessings
marianne
AMEN! This needs to get out to more people, who are sitting home watching Christian TV! The Lord just showed this same teaching to me himself, and so I looked to see if others had gotten it! Praise the Lord He has, and I am thankful for your getting the “Word” out about this!
Hi Marty,
God bless you for your comments. Where the spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. Just love and obey his commandments, help the poor when you can, and you will be blessed.
blessings
marianne
Hello Marianne,
I have just discovered this site. I was initially reading up on the antichrist and the 12th IMAM revelations, but I was led to this particular subject because it is a subject I have wrestled with for so long. Thankyou for clarifying what I was thinking all along, especially about Christian TV and those suspect praise a thons from eg TBN, GODTV(I do love GODTV though) amongst others.
Hi Peter,
Welcome to Heaven Awaits….. Please feel free to make comments, criticisms.
blessings
marianne
Marianne,
Or anyone else who follows up with this site. can someone please clarify for me what or where the 10% comes in?
Hi Debra
The 10% (tithe) was a once a year offering for the poor, and for thanksgiving sacrifices, shabbat, and holiday sacrifices. The 10% only consisted of grain, corn, and certain animals.
Something called the temple tax was for the support of the temple…what we today would use for the light bill, maintenance, supplies, etc.
see the portions on the tithe – proper use, and misuse.
http://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/108/
http://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/tithing-judaism/
blessings
marianne
And the serpant spoke to Eve … Quoting scriptures out of context to misrepresent them as the teaching of the church (which you attack here) does not represent an ‘understanding of the scripture’. The truth is that there are many versus in the Word that talks to and commands sowing in monetary terms. Tithing is not a church thing it is a God thing. The disciples wanted to go and by bread for 5000 men – does that sound poor to you?
I am in no way trying to defend money-hungry people that use the church or believers or God’s Word as an excuse to get rich, they will answer to God and I am sure that as per Gal 6:7 they will reap a sure reward and then they may not be smiling that much …
Quoting scripture and misrepresenting God’s Word to ‘uncover’ a ‘lie’ is no better than the ‘lie’. Like I said the serpant was looking for a willing ear and in this world of church-haters and excuse-finders you will tap right into a major market willing to listen – I bet they will even be prepared to pay to hear this …
Hi Daniel,
I understand what you are saying. Note also what you said.
Notice that the disciples were buying bread for the congregation. The congregation was not collecting money to feed the disciples.
All tithes were food, not money. All offerings were food, or doves as a poor offering, but not money. They may have used money to buy the offering.
Offerings for the poor were given directly to the poor, not to an organization which paid staff members.
Sowing with money was not commanded. We are commanded to sow the word of God, not money.
Daniel, I think you may have a great point
Marianne,
Where do you suppose the disciples got the money they used to buy the bread with? Most of them were called away from their current forms of work to spend the next 3 years with the Lord.
Last night I read 2 Cor 8/9/10 and there is little doubt that Paul is speaking about the collecting of money in these scriptures. He uses the term ‘sowing’ and ‘reaping’ in direct relation to monetary terms here.
See, there is a difference in taking that which is yours and doing with it as you see fit and taking what is God’s and prescribing the use of it. God gives us all that we have, that is my belief. He gives me 10 tenths and then He says 1 of those tenths belong to Him and should be brought to His store-house (Mal 3:8-10). That tithe that I give is not under my control, it should not be, it should be under the control of God’s store-house keepers and in God’s administration he has chosen the church to perform that function and therefore the ministers in that role by default. The other 9 tenths is my concern and I must adminster it wisely as God would expect the minister of the church to administrate that which comes in to the church wisely. So my giving of tithes is not my giving to the needy, it is based on God’s command and to make way for His provision. My giving to the needy comes from the management of my 9 tenths of which I have been given control.
The Word says that they that teach the gospel should live off it. Sadly for many it is but only an occupation, but for most it is a calling and there is nothing that says they should be poor, needy people. He should be justly compensated for the work he does and how he choose to manage his allocation is entirely up to him as mine is up to me. If he choose to buy a fancy car with what he gets it is his choice is it not?
It is evident when looking through the Word, both old and new testament, that in most cases that which was to be distributed was brought to a central place and managed from there (incidently – notice that the priest was always allowed to take a portion for himself of that which was given as a direct result of God’s command). Over and above that the people could freely give of what they had out of their own compassion.
A last thought – if I give specific things I am giving based on my perception of the need, I may give bread to a needy family not knowing that they may be allergic to wheat and in doing so I am not filling their need, I leave them in need. If I gave money they could decide how to use it to fill their need. It is much the same way as I read the scripture that says “And my God shall supply all your needs …” when my need is food I trust God for food, when my need is money I trust God for money, when my need is healing I trust God for healing.
Dear Daniel
The bible teaches that everyone was expected to work, and support themselves. They had their own money. Jesus did not take a salary, neither did the apostles. There is no record of Jesus taking tithes from people, although there happened to be 2 cases where someone offered food. The services of Jesus and his followers were “free.” They did not ask for money offerings. If they got any, it was free will and voluntary…..someone might just offer and give. Jesus did not pass around a basket and ask everyone.
The famous Malachi scripture you quote, which is forced upon congregations weekly, if read in its true context, would be the chastisement of spiritual leaders who are robbing God, by keeping the tithe money for themselves. The tithe was for God, not them. The people gave, but the priest kept the tithes, instead of allowing the offerer to eat the tithe before the Lord in worship, and giving what was left to the poor. This is an abomination, and still occurs today.
Also, if one wants to be under the law, why not obey all of it, and not just the money part? The spiritual leaders were not allowed to own property or homes. They took no salary. They sat in the gate of the city, and people were to treat them as poor, since they had nothing.
The tithe was food, not money. It was to be eaten before God as a communion meal. Modern christian leaders have prostituted it into being money for their pockets, an abomination they borrowed from the Catholics. The poor benefits very little from the tithe now. They have to go to the government and social services to get any help.
Today, the pastors prostitute the tithe, spend it on themselves and their building projects, cars, etc.
They have no right to salaries…..they just help themselves, and defy God. They have turned the gospel into a business, where they are somehow more special than others, and deserve to get paid. But the bible says we are all equal before God.
Giving money to the poor is called alms….there is nothing wrong with that…..but the tithe is food.
Paul indicates any money given to the church is for helping those in need ….there is no “pastor” who is getting the money for a salary.
Elders are worthy of double honor, if they serve well. It does not say they are worthy of double money.
Paul talks a lot about the love of money that corrupts.
Paul makes it very clear that he refuses money and salaries, so that he will not abuse the gospel
I practice what I preach. I am here 24/7, I spend about 60 hours a week here, and I never ask for money. I do not want to abuse the gospel either. I want God to get all the glory.
I support the local poor, the homeless. I help friends in need. I let people stay here who have no home.
I give up a salary to sit here. I expect nothing but God’s love in return.
Serving God is a privilege, not a job with a salary.
I am not a hireling. I am his bride.
I hope you can see where I am coming from now.
i am apostle chukwudi utcheson from nigeria africa. i float a church, spirit and word centre. the error with the seed faith idea is that most preacher take God’s encounter or personal dealing with them and make a doctrine out of it. simply becos you needed a particular thing from God and he asked you to give 10dollars to someone indeed thosen’t mean you should make a doctrine out of it. telling church flocks to always give some money to someone when ever they are in need. this is the spring board of most errors in doctrine we find in the body of Christ. we need prophets and apostles and teacher to restore the sound doctrines of Christ to the church. most of the teachings we have today are doctrines of men, devil and commanding of church overseers and it is not ministreing grace to the hearer. the lord said to me ‘i have sent you to take away from God’s word what men added to it, and put back into it what man took away. uchee25@yahoo.com, or call: +2348038758238,+2348097886319. God bless all the readers in this site. keep me posted.
hello utcheson chukwudi
It may be possible that God told a rich man to give up his riches, in order to obtain salvation, an answer to prayer. This is the same test that Jesus gave the rich young man.
But most people are not rich, and so this would be an inappropriate test for them.
People are just greedy, and the people who give are also doing it for the wrong reasons. If they were not so addicted to their needs, they would not fall for this deception.
We all need to break away from the flesh, and walk by faith.
Hello all,
I am all for helping minitstries who are furthering the Gospel of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ to help people (like I once was before Christ) receive Jesus, be born again, receive a kingdom which cannot be shaken, receive the truth of Gods word through television, radio or internet, and bring souls fromm the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of His dear Son Jesus.
What I beleive is Not of God is using scriptures in the word of our Lord to state to Gods children to “exercise their faith by sowing a seed for a $1,000 to receive a miracle in 24 hours” or “the reasomn you still have a curse in your life…”, ahhhh! This is horrible! This is not the finished work of Jesus Christ being preached. The finished work is not do, do, do but receive, receive, rcceive. Jesus is not condemenation He is life. Condemantion kills, the letter kills but the Spirit gives life. Children, we must renew our minds with the precious word of God by the power of the Holy Spirit so that when we give it will not be under the law or out of condemantion but from the Spirit of Grace and under the New Covenant. We give not to receive, we give because we have already recieved. I love TBN, Jesus has blessed me richly by veiwing shows on ministries on that network. It’s just not of God to use manipulation of the word of God to get money duringpraise a thons. If they are receiving lets say $30 million a year from veiwers (please note I have no idea how much that network recieves, this number is used for example only) how much more would people give if Jesus was being lifted up in these Praise a thons instead of money, if the Spirit of Grace was being ministered instead of the spirit of condemnation in which our precious Lord and Savior killed at the cross. How much more would the children of God give. Just as the scripture says, in 2 Corinthians 3:9
“For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.”
May the Lord help the ministers/preachers who are preaching this message of death and may our Lord and Savior help our brothers and sisters to see what He sees and to stand firm on the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ and to know what they have alreday. Jesus bought by His blood so much, our salvation, fellowship, health, wholeness, peace; He even became poor so we may become rich, but not ungodly rich nor greedy rich. Rich yes even financially but His way, where He uses it for His glory, you see it and it doesnt affect you like it affects the world because Jesus is your everything.
Tithing is another thing. I wrestled with this for a long time. The Lord blessed me with a beautfiul revelation where is says never tithe out of condemnation or out of the law. Abraham tithed before the law to Michelzedek a type of Jesus where in the new covenant the Holy Spirit states, Hebrews 7:8
“And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth”. Beloved, our tithes testifies He’s alive!
I have asked the Lord if I should give to my current church who mixes law and grace, even if i should continue to attend there. By His Grace and Patience I will not move unless He leads me. I am grateful and highly blessed to not have to rely on “my power” (my flesh) but in Christ Jesus, “Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.
God bless each and everyone of you and remember, you are highly favored, deeply loved and greatly blessed for you are the discple whom Jesus loves.
hi anita
I would give as you determine is right in your heart, when asked by those who are in legitimate need. Use wisdom when non-needy people want your money.
The tithe is only for the levite priest in the temple in Jerusalem, no where else. It is not for gentile pastors who want to make a salary, buy a new car, or build a building that is much more than a humble structure.
The orthodox Jews are very strict in obedience. Not even they pay tithes right now, since there is no temple in Jerusalem. They just give free will offerings, and do charity instead.
The tithe your speaking of that was “only for the Levite priest” was according to the Old Covenant aka The Law. There may be orthodox Jews that dont pay tithes just as you wrote but if they havent received Jesus has the Messiah why are we bringing them up in this case. They are not part of the Bride of Christ yet. Before I go any further what does it matter if Jews orthodox or not tithe?
Lets talk about the Bride of Christ, the body of Christ. We are the Bride, and its better to be His bride than His brother. The bride shares intimacy, shares the throne, shares the name. We are the gentile bride of Jesus Christ
Tithing is part of the Abrahamic Covenant originally. Tithing that was under the law starting in Leviticus is not what I am writing about.
It really is has simple as looking at Hebrews 7:8, “Here mortal men receive tithes, but there he receives them, of whom it is witnessed that he lives”.
Where the scripture reads, “Here mortal men received tithes…”, that means when you tithe to the Lord mortal men eg., all the full time ministries, all the pastors, missionaries, all the work of Jesus around the world all come under the benefit of our tithe. These are mortal men that recieve tithe. The emphasis on “Here” mortal men receive tithes.
Now emphasis on “There” he (Jesus)receives them.
Now “Here” when we tithe we tithe to the church and “Here” mortal men receive the tithe for the work of Jesus,
But “There” He receives our tithes.
The Lord has ordained the way He receives is through the church, the local church.
Now the last part of that scripture, “…of whom it is witnessed that he lives”. Notice that the word “it” is referenced to tithe.
You could read, “of whom the tithe witnessed that He lives”.
Now if you were to read quickly Genesis 14:18-20, “Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; he was the priest of God Most High. And he blessed him and said:
“ Blessed be Abram of God Most High,
Possessor of heaven and earth;
And blessed be God Most High,
Who has delivered your enemies into your hand.”
And he gave him a tithe of all.
You will see and remember that the bread and the wine is the witness of Jesus’ death (reference also Luke 22:18-20)
the tithe is the witness of His resurrection.
These are the 2 ways we remember the Lord our God. You see the word remember is not just a sentimental remembering, (this is a moderinistic western idea). The Jewish idea, God’s idea, the biblical idea is to go through the reanactment.
When Jesus said, “do this in rememberance of me” He wants us to imagine His broken body and His blood. Thats why when we have communion we take actual elements and “remember” Him the way He said to.
If your wondering, “I dont get it, how does a tithe witness to His resurrection?”
This is what the Lord has said to me has He was blessing me with thsi revelation of tithe, “When you preach and talk about how good I am in your life, some of them will not believe, many will but some will not until they see, until they see what I have blessed you with, then will these people who dont believe me see that I am alive in your life.”
We tithe from a perspective of Grace because we want to, may our life be a reflection of His glory, Hallelujah!
Simply put tithing is the witness of Jesus resurrection in our life.
It’s not about Pastors “who want to make a salary, buy a new car or build a bldg…” It’s about Jesus.
Again I am not advocating by any means using the word of God and twisting it for personal gain in which I have heard and know of.
I’m talking about Jesus. He’s what it really comes too.
Thank you siste for hearing me out again.
May the Lord Jesus Himself confirm His word.
anita
I do not agree. The tithe has nothing to do with the resurrection. We honor the work of Jesus with a holy life, and following his witness, not with giving money to men, unless it it to the poor. Jesus never asked for money.
Peter (in the book of Hebrews) and the other Jewish apostles continued to pay tithes to the temple in Jerusalem until it fell in 70 AD. They were obeying the Torah. The tithes only went to the Levite priests. They were not paying tithes to the church. By honoring the law, they honored Jesus, who was the fulfillment of the Torah.
I believe Tithing is a principle, it did not say Abraham gave 10 percent, but tithe whick is simply giving. Giving is of the heart which I believe will always be right, I do not believe we are requried to give 10percent but I do believe we are to support the local church in ministry through whatever means they need.
Hebrews 7 explains it. Please note I could not have gotten this information unless through divine revelation. The devil wouldn’t say to tithe to testify His ressurection, the flesh wouldn’t either. The only One who would want the Witness of His Sons resurrection is the Father. God bless you Marianne.
Romans 8:1
“There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.”
hi anita
I still disagree. It would be just like the devil to get us into the prosperity gospel, by misinterpretation of scripture.
But people are free to give what they want. I just want them to use wisdom in giving.
Hello Anita
Please keep preaching and spreading the gospel, my advice is that if TRUE HOLY SPIRIT told you to tithe then you should do what you were told for the reason you were told. Rather its 10 percent or 50 percent whatever is laid on your heart, but you are not under the law (always remember that) cause if you keep one part then you have to keep the entire thing so you need to sacrafice animals and all of that, and I dont know if you have any pets but they would not like that lol. But lets pray together Anita, and Marianne that confusion and false doctrine will be removed from our fathers bride so that we all can commune with him and eachother in advancing his kingdom all over the earth. Love you all with much peach and joy, love Yah always.
I don’t know anything about this “prosperity gospel”, what I do know is about the gospel; of Jesus Christ.
Psalm 122:7
Peace be within your walls,Prosperity within your palaces.”
Psalm 68:6
“God sets the solitary in families;He brings out those who are bound into prosperity; But the rebellious dwell in a dry land.”
Psalm 30:6
Now in my prosperity I said,“I shall never be moved.”
Psalm 25:13
He himself shall dwell in prosperity, And his descendants shall inherit the earth.
Job 36:11
“If they obey and serve Him,They shall spend their days in prosperity, And their years in pleasures”
Acts 24:2
And when he was called upon, Tertullus began his accusation, saying: “Seeing that through you we enjoy great peace, and prosperity is being brought to this nation by your foresight,
Prosperity is of God, not the devil. It comes from our Father, not Satan.
Prosperity- definition- a successful, flourishing, or thriving condition.
anita
True, god prospers people at times. But not every holy person is rich. In fact, the average believer is not rich.
Satan perverts what god offers and appeals to the lusts and greed of man.
Church is a business now. It demands tithes for the purpose of church maintenance and ministry salaries, who expect the people to be in church all the time.
If people had any alone time with God, they would miss church, and the church could not collect the money, if they are missing.
Everyone here has some great points of reference and revelation, butI must say that now many of us are confused with what is truth here! I do agree with Marrianne because God is not the author confusion! I don’t have a lot of money, but to tell you the truth, I have done more in my life without money in God than when the imes I did and do get money. I have traveled to preach the word of God and song for Him whn I did not have the finances to go, but God provided, and I did not ask for an offering. The mnistry gave me an offering, and I put it back in that mninistry, believe God always takes care of His own ,I would rather have a job, and work for my own provisions than to make, manipulate or threaten people to give something they don’t have. This is the abuse many mnistries, in which I just left one, has done and is doing to God’s people. Many of times I did not have money to evenget to church and God would provide, but when in services, I would see the Pastor manipulate people and make us feel wwe are not Blessed because we don’t have a Tithe for that week(sunday). I wen home feeling down and discouraged when I was supposed to feel Blessed and be fedthe Word of God! It took them an hour to receive the offering because it was like an auction in there. God is not pleased with this Prosperity doctrine, and we better pray hard nd cry out to God before it’s too late! Thanks so much Mariane for your insight. God revealed to me that scripture about the seed being the Word when I was just a babe in Christ! I believe in bringing my tithe to the local church, it’s just how it’s being taught and how we give it is where I have the problem. Mnay of times, God provided finances I did not work fo because at that time I was unemployed, and I did not have to give money in the church to get it! I know he Father loves me and he provides my every need.
When Jesus bought us with His own blood, He bought everything about us. That includes all our resources – our time left here, our energies and all our possessions. It is now our responsibility – and fantastic privilege – to discern what He wants to do with what He purchased. And much of that will be “a moving target” as He has us in different situations.
Concerning money – this is just a tool we are to use. The first priority is that we are to “provide for (our) own and particularly those of (our) household.” If we fail in this primary financial ministry He says we will be found to have “denied the faith” being “worse than an unbeliever” (1 Tim 5:8).
All our financial activity must be measured against this – and any faithful teacher, preacher, pastor,elder, fellow believer, etc., will work with us to help us comply with this directive. And compliance with this does change as our circumstances change.
I have written on this in some detail, and if you would like to read more, just go to my site for “No Tithe for the Christian” or “The Tithe Test” or “The Christian’s Money and the Bible” I hope to soon write, “Compliance with 1Timothy 1:8 and the Bible”. I have just started it and hope to have it Spring of 2010.
Hi Robin,
I have bookmarked your site. I will be interested in reading it. Thank you.
Marianne :
If you were not so mean spirited you might have a point or two. I think however that when you have brought millions to the Lord like Oral Roberts had, as many documented healings as he had, and dedicated as many years helping others as he had and established one of the most prestigious Christian collages that is still in operation [ORU] then you might be able to insinuate what an idiot he [Oral Roberts] is in your writings. Until then I would be concerned as to what spirit you are serving.
Sitting in your own little anonymous space blogging descent is a sad vocation and these writing say more about you then those you crucify in the name of religion.
Sure…pointing out religious carbuncles is noteworthy and needed. Examples are more powerful and less snarky than naming names. Tearing down giants like Oral Roberts is alarming and beneath the gift of love that Jesus paid for at the cross.
We have not been given the mind of Christ to forgo its use. Jesus didn’t even treat Judas, who was stealing directly from the treasury, as harsh as those you write about. Love seems to be beneath you. And that is sad.
Dear Mr Windfield
I do not consider this mean spirited, or unloving, just because I say Oral Roberts is wrong.
Jesus explained that the Word of God is seed to the sower.
Jesus did NOT say that money is seed to the sower.
It is honorable that Oral brought many to the Lord. But it does not mean he can teach something that is wrong.
It is wrong to teach people that for every offering, they are going to get more money back than what they “sowed.”
I have given plenty to ministry, and I never got any money back for it.
I am trying to clarify what is biblical here, and what isn’t. I have no personal feelings about Oral at all. The disagreement is academic.
Mr. Windfield …
Your name reminded me of this verse of the prophet …
‘For they have sown the wind, and they shall reap the whirlwind’
Jeremiah spoked truly ‘Many pastors have destroyed my vineyard, they have trodden my portion under foot, they have made my pleasant portion a desolate wilderness.’
Why should we narrow it down to one man? There are many who teaches false doctrine …
but to those remember: ‘ Renounce the doctrines of error, that ye may be worthy of the mysteries of the Light and be saved from all the chastisements of the great dragon of the outer darkness.
Say unto those who teach the doctrines of error and to every one who is instructed by them: Woe unto you, for, if ye do not repent and abandon your error, ye will go into the chastisements of the great dragon and of the outer darkness, which is exceedingly evil, and never will ye be cast [up] into the world, but will be non-existent until the end.’
(I do not consider this mean spirited, or unloving) No doubt…
Then you should write your points as such. Granted your academic disagreement is overwhelming, however your overall tone and manner is snarky and condescending.
It is also as in the email you have written me elitist in that what you say about your interpretation is an absolute. Also btw using all caps is the equivalent of yelling.
(“It is wrong to teach people that for every offering, they are going to get more money back than what they “sowed.”)
Your absolute assumption here is that “nobody ever” gets more money than they sow. Your absolute assumptions only work in a vacuum of proof. There are more factors involved then I give money and I get more money back. If those are the only elements involved then no it will not occur. But that is not the case. You do not enter in yourself and you keep others from entering in as well.
(I have given plenty to ministry, and I never got any money back for it.)
I can name and know hundreds of people who experience on regular basis that are God loving Christians like yourself who give offering and tithes and get 30 60 and 100 fold in return. But they don’t berate those who do not believe in what they do because if they fall out of love the system will not work. You can not say that since you do not get results from a spiritual truth it is not true. That is the argument every atheist uses.
It is fine you don’t believe but it is not your place or ministry to berate, smear, and belittle your brothers and sisters in Christ who are walking in the Kingdom and have success in areas you find offensive.
(It is wrong to teach people that for every offering, they are going to get more money back than what they “sowed.”)
You are correct but you are incorrect to assume that that is “the teaching”. It is only an aspect of a larger awareness. Of course this is all under the supposition that you are the one who says what is right and what is wrong with a teaching from a man such as Oral Roberts academic or otherwise. Best of luck with that.
The optimist knows this to be true and pessimist fears he is correct. If you don’t believe then don’t worry about it, you will never be bothered with it.
dear Mr. Windfield
I stuck to scriptures that backed up my points. I did not use caps or yell.
It is taught, of course, to add faith to the seed, to get a return on the seed. Even with faith, there is no guarantee in the Word that there will be a money harvest for any offering.
I do not know one person who got a 30, 60 or 100 fold return, so if you have list of hundreds, you can send me the list. Include names and phone numbers so they can be contacted. Of course, there should be proof of a connection between an offering and a financial return with dates and documentation.
Replacing money for the word of God is not spiritual truth.
I am not smearing anyone. People are responsible for their own behavior. If they are a false teacher, then they bring shame upon themselves.
The bible says what is right and wrong. I quoted it. Oral cannot find a scripture to back up his claim that money is the seed for the sower, instead of the word of god.
You are welcome to your opinion, and I invite you to support your view that money is the seed for the sower, by providing scriptures. I will give you the space to do this here.
Mr.Windfield and Marianne
I write to say this, make points known and do not name bash. Second, I beleive it is perfectly ok to let people know that they are not under the LAW OF %10 TITHEING, but let them know what Apostle Paul said about giving out of the heart. The people that gave tithe and offering and recieve 30,60,100 fold then to Yah be the glory, I believe it was out of their obedience to what holy spirit has laid on their heart and their graditude of being able to give. Marianne is just saying people should not be taught that its a must you do thus and so or else. Unless you are telling people that live for Jesus or there is an Eternal fire waiting for you. Telling people that if you dont give %10 percent out of your gross then you are under a curse, I dont believe that is right. But if it is in the heart of the believer to give %10 or %80 out of money to the God then let them give and if they do not want to give %10 percent then let them give according to what is on their heart and only Yah can Judge that. But very valid points from both of you, lets remember to say and do everything with a spirit of Christ Love, Peace, Kindness, Gentleness, HUMILITY, and respect to EDIFY the reader and not confuse them. Paul says 2 Timothy 2:14-Keep reminding them of these things. Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen. So make it know that these are discussions and not arguments on whos right and whos wrong. PLEASE PRAY FOR ONE ANOTHER MR.WINDFIELD AND MARIANNE LITERALLY PRAY FOR ONE ANOTHER AND I WILL PRAY FOR US TO. Strength and peace be with you both. (May the force be with you) nah just joking I always wanted to say that. Much Love.
Dear Windfield,
Hi hope you are well.
Writing from my Church of Christ view point I have this to say.
Oral Roberts is a deceiver and an Anti Christ. You many commend him on being successful but being a good devil has no advantages over being a bad one; except perhaps earning greater damnation.
Furthermore was it not Oral Roberts who announced that if he didn’t collect a million dollars or some greater sum of money that God was going to call him home?
And was it not Oral Roberts who founded these ‘faith’ base hospitals and then when he was sick went to a legitamate hospital?
Furthermore I hope that RV does not stand for Reverend for you sir are not a Reverend. Psalm 111:9 says in reference to God, “holy and reverend is his name”.
Somehow I just feel the Spirit leading me to communicate this message very openly and directly.
And what do you know of Marianne’s life outside of this blog? Once again from my perspective I have found this blog a blessing and an excellent way to document my beliefs and positions. That is certainly more than Oral Roberts has ever done for me.
If you care to discuss finer points in scripture then I wall calm down and gentley go over the Word of God with you.
In closing I feel compelled to quote the words of my Lord and saviour Jesus Christ when he was speaking to Peter in Mathew 16:23 “Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offense unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.”
Love,
John
Hello,
Hope you are all well.
Here the words of Paul, 1 Corinthians 3:5-7 “What then is Apollos? What is Paul? Servants through whom you believed, as the Lord assigned to each. I planted, Apollos watered, but God gave the growth. So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God who gives the growth.”
Let us humbley recognize our position and place in the grand scheme of things.
Love,
John
AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN AMEN, THAT IS THE MOST POWERFUL THING I HAVE READ ALL YEAR BROTHER.
Well said John!
Pardon me, ya’ll, but didn’t this prosperity pimping over Heavenly promises break up European Christendom? It was unjust and wicked superstition when my Church did it, and by God, it still is. When a believer finally, after many lessons, learns to say “no” to frivolous expenses, “no” to superstitious greediness, “no” to wanting and coveting what others have, miraculously…LO! Money in fact seems to multiply! And God will provide when it runs out. Tithing is about offering the first fruits of EVERYTHING that comes to us…joy, sadness, food, children, new friendships…up to THE FATHER in gratitude. Of course Churches need to pay bills but that is a long, long way from stocks and bonds in securities and $200,000 sound systems! This is selling and buying indulgences to build St. Peter’s all over again…the old churchy edifice complex! Fall in love, stop buying slave made clothes (now that’s a challenge!), make a dog’s day with a long walk…those are REAL…besides how can you know these phony pastors aren’t investing your hard earned money in truly wicked corporations? I can’t believe a Catholic has to remind you about the evils of power and money wed to religion!!
I just would like to say that this message is excellent super I have been preaching and trying to take the blindfold off people that tricked them into thinking that the “seed” is money, when in the book of luke 8:11 it also tells u the definiton of the seed. Jesus himself tells u that the seed is the word of god. So for anybody that is preaching to u that the “seed” is money contradicts what jesus himself said.
hello jay
I am glad to hear you are alert to this seed money issue. I hope you can spread the real seed (real word) about this to as many people as possible. We need saints that are informed and awake, and not blind.
hello sister marianne yes I am doing my best to do so I want to do gods will and I am against this false doctrine a lot of preachers are speaking of. Now I’m not saying every preacher preaching this is a fake, a lot of the times for some odd reasons they just go with the flow and that’s just wrong. They need study the word carefully and learn more about the word. Basically what I’m trying to say is we all need to go back to our first love to our roots as a christian when it was about god and sharing the word and not about money. So anyone reading this remember to go back to your first love and spread the word because when u drift away from your first love that’s what god holds against you . Now don’t take my word for it read it for yourself. (Rev. 2:4). Anyways good to hear from you sister and god bless you.
I pray Ephesians 1:18-23 over you. I hope you pray it for yourself. God said he will reveal the mysteries of the spirit realm to his children. The word has tons of depth and there is more to it than what meets the eye. I pray God renew in you the right spirit and that your life is a testimony of his great power and glory.
Jesus lives and forever makes intercession for His children!
I pray we will all gain an understanding of our Lord’s will in regards to money and prosperity (peace) in Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior.
I pray you and all believers will come to the full knowledge of God’s will in regards to His purpose – the salvation of men’s souls
Wow
Is this what Jesus went to the cross for? I am a sinner saved by grace. I ask Jesus to cleans me and I believe so should everyone who has replied. Is it possible that we have forgotten that Jesus said forgive them for they know not what they do. I am convienced that everyone has his or her brothers best intensions in mind here. Lets say that you have been given a clear understanding of this very inportant message. Is it possible that in delivering your message you might have affended your brother. I am not sure that everyone who has commented or responded is Born Again. I am however fully convienced that everyone who has responded has a conviction. Whats say we let Jesus decide who gets into heaven. How about we take a moment to pray for each other, and pray that Jesus heals us from all unrighteous condemnation. I truely love each and every person that has responded. One consideration before I go. Once we have placed each others salvation into question are we not supposed to love and pray for one another. Jesus please heal all who have responded from placing thier understanding over your sacrifice. I am sure we continue to need your prayers Jesus. As we wait for your return prepair our hearts and minds that we may truely see your glory as we live for you. Amen.
hi scott Sr.
Thank you for your prayers. What was bothering you about what was said? Something I said (I am the author of the post), or what someone else said?
I agree with you money is not a seed.I have known this for a long time it just never did set right in my spirit.paul said I plant and apollo watereth.I do pay my tithe to the church and sometimes I give offering.sometimes I purpose in my heart what to give.the other day I heard a man preaching on sewing telling people that god said they would get triple favor.I couldnt believe it and then when he sais that the woman with the issue of blood was healed because she had favor.once again I couldnt believe what I was hearing of course I turned off the television.im really concerned for those that are teaching this have they also become victimized by deception and have been decieved to believe this doctrine.im really concerned for these people I believe many has been decieved to believe this non-sense.I know it takes money but something strange is going on and has been getting stranger on this seed time and harvest money.thank you for being honest.there are times we give but its only by the leading of the spirit and not propaganda.I hope that I didnt offend anyone but when it comes to giving it should be done differently.
hi herb
Unfortunately, this is getting worse. I hope it finally dies out. It most likely will, when the deceived people run out of money to give for “favors” from God. We already have favor with God. That is why Jesus died for us. We do not need to pay money for it.
I try to give directly to those in need. That is a blessing in itself.
If I hear promises of money, prosperity, or favor for giving, I usually run the other direction.
I pray people will wake up and see this. Baal was the god of the harvest, the god of prosperity. So this preaching borders on idolatry.
What a wonderful blog and comments made about the prosperity “gospel”. I was once deluded into believing that if I sowed a monetary seed, I could expect a supernatural return for my obedience. With the benefit of hindsight, I now know that this is a false teaching. The church I used to go to promoted it to its extremity. For example: they had 3 services each Sunday and each one had an offering, we also were strongly encouraged to use the Credit/Debit Card slips on our seats for faster giving. There was always, and I mean always, a mini sermon on giving before the offering was taken. It – as I have now realised – was distorted and sounded more like a motivational speech despite an out-of-context Bible passage quoted.
After the church raised in its tens of thousands on Miracle Offering Sunday (as well as having a regular offering too), I asked God for discernment. Was I doing the right thing? After all, my former senior pastor said that ‘if we don’t sacrificially give, then we can expect very little in return.’ And one televangelist went so far as to say ‘delayed obedience is disobedience’ so I had no intention of upsetting or disobeying the Lord. I did give to the Miracle Offering and it was a sacrifice what I gave, so I was expecting a great blessing in return.
Then, praise God, He opened my spiritual eyes to the deception of this teaching! I spent some considerable time in the Word and in prayer asking Him to lead me in what He had to say. First of all, I was directed to 1ST TIMOTHY 6:3-5; “If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions, and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain.” (NASB). Secondly, He led me to 2ND TIMOTHY 3 and also 2ND TIMOTHY 4:2-4 “preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.” (NASB)
Since God laid it thick on me from these Scriptures, I have heavily refuted the prosperity gospel and have asked the Lord to forgive me of my wrongdoing and lust after giving in the expectation to get! I continually pray for the televangelists and also the very souls at risk from this damaging false doctrine that their spiritual eyes will, one day, become opened like mine. This is damaging the Body of Christ and we should always be praying for those who teach it that they may see the Truth for themselves and repent of their wicked ways. Thanks for sharing, Marianne. Blessings, your sister in Christ Cheryl-Lee
hi Cheryl-Lee
Thank you for your testimony. I am happy to hear you are better now, and out from under that oppression.
I had to go through it myself as well. One day, I started reading more, like you. The Bible said the seed was the Word of God ( not money). Then I thought, Jesus never preached the prosperity message, and expected people to go into debt to support him.
I hope more and more people wake up. Unbelievers think we are all greedy and sinful. And in today’s economy, people cannot afford to be tricked into giving money, when they have important bills to pay, and food to buy for their children.
god bless you.
Marianne, again I agree 100% with your words. Too, prosperity gospel is dangerous. I’m in touch with a young poor minister in Uganda where prosperity gospel is gaining ground among the very poor there. I’ve explained about prosperity gospel but in his deprivation…he loves the idea of it. But I don’t allow him to shower me with promises of ‘blessing’ related to the small and occasional monetary gifts I share with him and his sweet family…lol. He has learned to say a simple, ‘thank you.’
Again, enjoyed the post.
CArolyn
Galatians 2:16 No one will be justified by God for observing the law, we are justified by faith in Christ.
Galatians 3:13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law by being made a curse for us on the tree, this is how we receive the blessing of Abraham by faith in Jesus
It is obvious that most Christians lack understanding of the huge differences in Old Covenant and New Covenant. When Jesus said Paid in full the law was fulfilled for us. Before he died the law was still in effect
Romans 10:4 Jesus is the end of the law for everyone who believes.
The Law pointed us to our need for a Savior and our guilt was made evident. The Jews had 613 laws around the clock to try to keep and their sacrificing lambs was endless for violating these laws, in many cases they were stoned to death. The most important law was not tithing which was paid in food by the way. The laws that could result in a person being stoned for breaking was not keeping the Sabbath (it began Frid. evening for 24 hours till Sat.@ 6p and not being circumcised yet where is the demand to keep these laws? Why aren’t they taught to all of the Christian members? Let me answer this?…BECAUSE we are not Jews under the Old Covenant of Law but are Christians under the New Covenant of Grace. Really ponder the scriptures mentioned and look them up! If you think you can be cursed when Gal. 3:13 said we are redeemed from the curse you are real brainwashed!
Hi Susy
Good points.
But if you said them in front of a church, they would ask you to leave!
Judaism is the foundation for Christianity. They should not be separated. A Christian should learn all that they can about Judaism so as to be able to understand a Jewish Bible and the reasons for the Torah-Jewish Law. And to be able to understand a Jewish Messiah and the words He spoke.
When doing this, we are able to understand why the laws were given and which ones still apply.
And then we understand why Jesus said that His yoke is light.
The law no longer SAVES us….Jesus Christ SAVES us because He fulfilled the law. He was the only one who could.
“do unto others as you would have them do unto you…this SUMS UP the LAW and the prophets
Matthew 7:12
Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
Galatians 5:14 The entire law is summed up in a single command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
The Greatest Commandment
34Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’b 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’c 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
Hi.. What makes me wonder and unable to understand what the heck you all are talking about ( pardon my strong words )??
My thoughts are so simple…..
WHEN God ask those priests to follow and provide the money AND food or clothing to the needed ones.. yet I see those days are all about vanity ??? Explain that?? All I honestly see is pure greedy people.. power people whom actually thinks they own us… control us through White house laws that does NOT match God’s laws ?? Aye, shameful… Padron me for speaking so little because of things I have seen and listened for so long.. I see.. many are missing the extreme real point what God truly try to get everyone’s attentions. *sigh *
What’s more do I need to say? none…
What’s more does God want to say? LOTS! especially with his wrath.
… Naw.. Just ingore me.. I am only speak the real truth that I barely can hold back. You all have a wonderful and beautiful.. safe day
… Many blessings….
God bless you Tamera. I wish you many blessings also.
Blessed, blessed WORD!!! Thank you! I just shared on my FB wall….people get so upset when you try to speak on this subject, and share the truth with them…. but truth hurts, and the enemy can’t stand to be exposed for the liar and distorter of GOD’s Word that he is. Praise GOD for Truth, and may He always get the Glory!
Thanks. We are free, not bound now. Give from your heart as you see fit, instead of from the law.
How does the church building where believers assemble is to be taken care of. You need money to pay for lights, brick, mortor? I agree with what you are stating about preachers should stop equating money as being the seed. True, the word of God is definetly the seed which should produce good fruit on a good tree. thank you for that understanding. but the bible speaks of rendering that which is ceasars and render to God that which is God’s. Jesus watch the people put in money in the treasury while he was in the synagogue and Jesus said the widow put in more that the rich people because she gave out of her living. We are to support the work of God through our finances. Abraham gave tithes to the King of Salem Melchisedic See Hebrews 7:1 and 2. The priesthood the sons of Levi, was commmanded to take tithes of the children of Abraham Hebrews 7:5. We must rightly the divide the word of truth. Line upon line and precept upon precept Isaiah 28:9 and 10. see scriptures paying tribute to Caesar, Matt 22:15-22; Mark 12:13-17; Luke 20:20-26. See scriptures on the widow’s mite Lev. 27:30; Mark 12:41-44; Luke 21:1-4. In Moses’ day God commanded the Children of Isreal to give a tenth of seed from the land or the fruit of the tree. That is why in Malachi 3:10 The Word of God says, Bring ye all the tithes into the storehous, (the fruit of the land or the fruit of the tree) that there ay be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a clessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. Since, we Americans have gotten away form an agrerian culture the only thing we can sow is the first fruits of our increase after working on a job is “money”. Malachi 3:8 and 9 says ” will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. “ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. Lone upon line precept upon precept here a little there a little. Jeus said he did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it. If tithing was required at the hand of Moses for the Children of Isreal, we are Abrahams seed and we are rquired to obey the scripture and give a tenth of what we gross in ur income. The bible said you will be cursed. No, we are not under the law but under grace, but our pasor has taught us that grace is tighter than the law. Grace is the unmerited favor of God. We cannot buy his grace for by grace we are saved not of works lest any man should boast. But after we get saved God requires us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling and faith without works is dead. So when I give my required tenth of my gross income, yes I am looking for the promise of God that he will rebuke the devour for my sake and God will pour me out a blessing I will not have room enough to receive. The bible states it is more blessed to give that to receive. This means money, time, service, etc. May The lord God minister his truth through the Holy Ghost. Amen
hi Lorraine
Your pastor, sincere as he may be, first has to learn and obey the law before he can use it.
It is not the tithe, but the temple tax, that is used for “building maintenance.”
Remember, Jesus sent people to get a coin out of the fish’s mouth to pay the temple tax. That is what that story was about.
This is what Jews use, which they now call temple dues or tax, and this takes care of the building. Usually this is about $800 – $1000 a year per person. At least in America….The Jews should know, they have been at this for 4000 years.
It is the offering that is used for the salary of the rabbi, not the tithe.
The tithe is food, not money, and is ONLY to be used as a communion meal between god and the giver, and to be shared with the poor.
Today this is not done. Instead, the money is used for the building and the pastor’s salary. There is no communion meal each time the tithe is given, and the poor get hardly anything, if not nothing.
Today, the church is a business with expenses never intended by the early church.
Moses, Jesus and the apostles never asked, or received a salary. And they worked 24/7. Modern pastors work very little in comparison, and take the tithe as their own salary. also, buildings are too elaborate.
Remember, the others did not have a building and preached in the open, with no place to lay their head at night. None owned a home because they were traveling constantly. Today, pastors are spoiled. Also, the others worked and supported themselves. They were fishermen, and Paul was a tent maker. They accepted offerings but NEVER touched the tithe.
Notice also that the early believers were more effective than we are today. Their lifestyle was much more pure and unselfish. Today, it is a business, and everyone gets paid.
So, today, people do not render unto God what is God’s. The tithe is God’s private communion meal with the believer.
It used to be that the priest had to be present to offer the sacrifice, but now that is not necessary. Jesus is the priest AND the sacrifice, so we just come and offer ourselves. So, technically, outside of newborn believers who need some guidance and teaching, we do not need pastors, if we are mature sheep.
http://heavenawaits.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/tithing-for-jews-and-christians-for-internet-pdf-conversion.pdf
http://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/108/
If you study, you will see what I say is true. In the near future, churches will suffer because they lost their first love, and have become part of the world in their system of doing things. They need to return to the pure roots.
hello marianne you are mistaken you added to the tax situation it was to may taxes. My bible does not say temple tax. My pastor does know how to follow the leading of the Lord and he has signs following him which makes Him a true Apostle. You have to rightly divid the word of truth with the Holy Ghost teaching you all things.
Also, Marrianne, Peter had a wife and Jesus went to his house to heal this mother-in-law. God said he would that we prosper be in health as our soul prospers. Job was the riches man that ever lived. He had a house. You are not thinking right. It is God’s will that we have a house to live in and be in health as our soul prospers. Jesus was poor but he made many rich spiritually and naturally. God doesn’t walking around an not have a place to lay our heads. Going around like we are some Jesus freaks. Be real. PaUL spoke of some believers had church in their house! I am through with this conversation I will stop responding to anything on this website because you all are mixing people up who do not want to live a clean, holy life and every word that proceeded out of the mouth of God. good bye!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
dear Lorraine
You did not understand what I sent you, or the links.
It is called the temple tax today, back then they referred to it as the shekel for the sanctuary. Each family, or single man, gave a shekel, for the maintenance of the sanctuary. There are 25 references to this in the OT. Jesus also paid this with the coin in the fish’s mouth.
Your pastor sounds like a prosperity preacher. I am sorry about that. Jesus himself said he had no place to lay his head. You should have recognized that reference when I said it. You say he has signs following him. Not all signs and wonders are from God.
You obviously have not read the bible on your own, or absorbed its contents, or you would not be insisting that the apostles were well off because they had a house. They had a house to begin with before they met Jesus. None of them had a $300,000 mortgage paid for by the church. I have been to Israel and I have seen Peter’s house. It is about 250 sq feet.
What I told you is true. You do not know the word of God, or you would not have these arguments, which are based on a commercialized interpretation of the bible.
I wish you well, and your pastor well. I hope someday you will consider what I say, and study this on your own.
I believe God wants us to sow money to support the Kingdom of God. If the money is not given into the church offerings, then the poor, which are sometime believer will have to turn to the world for help. God intended for us to sow money. Read your bible and pray for revelation. Please there are too many of us believers in the Lord Jesus Christ that are fighting against His Will. I pray the that the whole body of Christ be perfect and complete in all the Will of God.
1) What so ever you sow you shal reap. That is Word, kindness, clothes, help, love, money etc…..
2) How do we rob God. By not giving the small percentage back from the big amount he trusts us with.
3) We must give out of every coin what belongs to the tax man and what belongs to God.
4) Giving money to the church is a sign of obedience and that He can trust you with more.
5) Nobody owns anything. If you did then you can take it with you when you die. You are only a steward of it.
6) What better tool to test a mans haert with than money?
7) Do you love God or Mammon (god of money)?
If you have any problem giving money that do not belong to you in the first place back to the church then you are operating in a wrong system where money have controll over you.
Think about it. 120 years from now nobody including the babies born today will live anymore, but the new generation will still chase after the same things we do today. Why hold back financial support to the church and steal yourself bankrupt with blessings from God?
hi gert
the tithe is not money. It is food, meant to be eaten in Jerusalem before the Lord…it is also not for the church or the pastor…it is to be shared with the poor only.
http://heavenawaits.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/tithing-for-jews-and-christians-for-internet-pdf-conversion.pdf
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I have been watching some preacher on christian tv, some I really like and do fill one with hope, thou some scare me. On God tv, they had a preacher lately doing the sew a seed money routine, but this guy said its a sign off faith, that money is just the way to show God we believe and as we send in a prayer request with No money well your in trouble, I do not know if others heard it, but it was very well done and confinsing enough too have 1000 off people start pouring in money to back up their prayers. the thing that I can not understand is why dont people stop and say well I can give my thousand to this or that need, why do they feel it has to be a Christian program, anyway if we do not get some right teachings on these network soon so many people will be lost.
hi Valerie
That man is a crook. Do not send him money.
He is not god, and if you send him money, you are not giving to god. You are just sending your money to some guy on TV.
It is best to give money directly to the poor, if you want blessings.
The bible says not to give money to the rich.
Giving money is not a test of your faith. It is a test of your wisdom.
Use your brains, and make sure who you give money to really deserves it and needs it.
There is a very powerful mind control virus in all electronics designed to steal the word … here is an email i wrote to marianne and they wouldn’t let me send it. i had pictures of my tv glitching to the mind control virus.. here is the email…
also there is a very severe and very advanced mind control virus in all electronics, tv, radio, computers, cellphone, cars, air conditioning, everything electoninc. here is a picture of it screwing up my tv, it follows my train of thought very closely and also since its a mind control device it has also infected people and they are doing noise pollution and mind control through themselves as well.
another note, they wont let me send this email, it had an error 5 times so far… im gonna try to compose an entirely new one
ok now 6th time it wouldnt send, someone doesn’t want me to send this email
I was scratching on the internet looking for something that would help me choose a ‘God’. (I can no longer live without something to believe in).
thus I search.
The way you Christians treat each other is despicable. I stumbled upon this site a broken man and am broken further by your dissentive arrogance and judgement upon one another.
I have no doubt that God exists and surely he is filled with more grace than you display here. You call each other liars and judge each other’s motives as if you have the right and authority to do so.
The biggest fool knows that you build nothing by breaking it down.
Really. I cannot express my disappointment at what i see here.
Your God may be great but his children are out of order.
If you are his marketing campaign, he needs a new agency.
I am a broken sinner, searching for a loving God so I don’t know as much as you all do, but I can tell you this:
From an outsider’s point of view you are all on the same team representing the same God whether you like it or not and how you deal with each other will determine whether or not people like me want to join your family.
Dear Broken man
I am sorry to hear you had that impression of this page.
The purpose of this post is to expose error in the church, have people discuss or debate whether this is true or not, and then arrive at the truth, according to what the Word of God actually says. If people disagree during a discussion, it does not mean they are in discord.
Many doctrines that people follow are made up by man, not God. This is where the arrogance and bondage lies. When we fully understand what the true interpretation of the Word is, we feel much more free.
What is being broken down is error and intentional greed by those who manipulate the Word for their own benefit and profit.
What should be built up is the spirit of man, as he finally gets free of falsehood, since now he can see God as benevolent, and not oppressive, as many portray him. It is hard to love a God that wants you to remain in poverty as others make money off your needy condition.
As a broken sinner, like us, you need what is true and pure. You do not need the lies of man to make you feel worse, or to rob you blind.
The freedom is to know that God is our provider, not our task master, standing over us with a whip, demanding all that we have, so we can starve, and not pay our bills. This is why Jesus overthrew the tables of the money changers in the temple. They had converted the temple into a place of money, which contaminated the atmosphere of prayer.
I hope you understand the purpose here better now. I have over 500 pages, and most discussions are quite friendly.
I pray that you do find and feel the love of God in your life. The love of God and the love of his Word is the driving force behind this site. I spend all day and much of the night helping people with their questions, and praying with them. I take time for each person. And I do this without asking for money or recognition. I sell nothing. the love of God is free. Jesus paid for everything on the cross, when he died for our salvation.
I give as my heart leads me. I also help everyone I can all the time. I feelthat I am doing the will of God (that is what I believe sowing seeds is.) This thing about giving all this money every week/month to a church does not cut it with me. Why give 4 or 5 hundred a month in the church plate for it to sit or be used for the pastor to live a lavish life style when there are people all around you al the time in need. Does that make sense? I don’t need the church to feed the hungry for me, or to bring food to someone whose hungry, or to pay for an elderly person;s medicine. If you want to do the will of God, using Jesus as an example then get up and act like it. Move around and do some good for humanity. This is what you call sowing your seeds, but in other places , (give enough to keep the utilities on in the church but start giving directly to the needy where you can see where your money is going and you can feel happy about yourself, this is where God will pour out your blessings. You who are reading this, know that I am telling the truth.
Good for you!. A wise lady!
Someone said that this thing about giving ten percent was in the old testament and not the new testament? Can anyone get me straight on that, for I thought we are suppose to be living by the new testament. I really don’t know the bible like the back of my hand so I need some help please.
hi Bea
the old testament tithe was just for the high priest, and just for the temple in jerusalem.
It was not for gentiles to make money from.
there is no tithe in the NT.
It is just free will offerings, as our heart leads us.
Word of faith teacing is one of the most erroneous doctrines to seep into Christemdom and the seed doctrine has been perverted like so many others. The problem with these self proclaimed prophets and apostles is that they take SOME truth and mix it with error. I go to a church where we tithe and I will continue to do so because the tithe we give is used to maintain our church, a number of ministries in the church which affect the community and assst in evangelism and mission. However I have a major problem with the seed doctrine that has become popular. I give not so that I can receive but to please God and do what He says. When I have needs I ask God to intervene that may mean giving wisdom in a certain area of my life or using someone to bless me financially or a business opportunity but to give and somehow believe that I can manipulate God to give me a thousand pounds is heresy
I can honestly say that this page has blessed me. i have seen people speaking to eachother in a manner that doesnt seem christ like, but that just shows that we are not perfect. with that said, the page and people on it are showing a true concern and desire to know the truth. By reading what is here they seek the truth. Now there are many opinions i see but there are many bible related facts. First i need to say thank you to the pastors out there that are doing God’s will. Next i must say that i see too many giving too much credit to the pastors when the Glory goes to God. We all must minister to eachother. I don’t think any of us will be viewed horribly by our Lord and savior because he loves us and i believe that he knows our hearts and as we continue seeking him , i believe that he will reveal more truths. I must admit that i agree with the creator of this page on tithes and seed. I always felt strange in my life as i was asked to give a certain amount of anything. I am a giver by nature. Nothing pleases me more than to give and especially to give a meal to anyone. It is a personal joy that to me also feels spiritual. I am very sensitive so when i give it is always from the heart and i ask God in prayer to guide me in my giving. Some say i give to much (mind you i am poor as far as finances). Giving to me is part of Gods plan and those of us who seek him will probably automatically be giving individuals. I have been in need and i can say that i did not get help from a church, it was a rough time and still is. I decided that it wouldnt be wise to go against the word and judge as we are told to love and forgive. What i see on this page is people sharing and i myself came to this page to get educated on a subject that i was not too sure about. And if God led me here then somewhere here lies the truth. Seek and you shall find. I am not angry at any of the opinions of anyone on this page. It shows that everyone is thinking and truly wants whats best and as we pray for eachother we will find the answer. With that said facts are facts. This may seem like a bunch of mumbo jumbo but i honestly want to welcome the broken man to this page and tell him that Jesus loves him, nomatter how messed up we may all seem. Please know that we love you too and we are humbled by what you wrote, at least i can say i am. I am broken too and i pray that we ae led by God’s hand to the promise land by continuing to seek the truth, the word, the seed. I thank everyone here and i pray that you continue to do God’s work. Be open to anyone coming in and giving us their take on this subject and others. We may be blessed by opinions being facts or opinions being corrected. At the end of the day , the word corrects us all. We are not perfect but are made perfect through him. We are a work in progress. I pray that we all can be obediant and see eachother in heaven including myself. it is hard these days, but we must call upong the only one who can help us get where we need to be. When we don’t know something this scripture may help. Psalm 46:10 Be still and know that i am God… It is my favorite. Sometimes we put too much pressure on ourselves and that is when we should let go and let God or Be Still and wait on God. Sometimes it feels like we are waiting forever but the lords promises are worth waiting for. He knows us and he knows what we need. I pray that we all get answers that are according to God’s will. God bless you and thank you for writing. thank you Marianne. I have been questioning this for a long time and i didn’t have the courage to place it into debate until today and if we don’t stand up for the things we need to know then how will we know. I appreciate your comments on this because it is what i have always believed. Now i can continue studying and you have given great reference points where i have missed out. Don’t give up. Sometimes people will judge us ,maybe because our delivery isnt quite as inviting as we would like but i myself have delivered messages in messy manners, not that you have but those that are thinking we all have. To sum up we are all not perfect but we all love the Lord Jesus Christ our Lord and savior and that makes me feel good. For those who think that Marianne is not on track, i would look at her references first. It is easy in this world to get offended, it is harder to admit that we may be wrong. If there is a chance that Marianne is wrong i know she would want to be corrected, after all that is why she created the page. God bless you. Broken man, you are in the perfect place for God to start building you up. Lean on him and not on your own understanding, as i say these words i say them to myself as well. I thank God that you seek him, and he loves you so much.
Just thought i would add a little something
Most people expect God’s Word to work like a stick of dynamite — but God’s Word is seed. We know because of what Jesus said.
LUKE 8:11
11 “Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
The Holy Spirit, through Peter, also said God’s Word is a seed.
1 PETER 1:23
23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,
God’s Word is alive. Just like a seed — the Bible is full of unseen life.
JOHN 6:63
63 “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
Jesus said His words are alive. They contain life. The words in your Bible may look lifeless and powerless. Seeds do, too. But they are not without life or power.
In Mark 4:30-31, Jesus explained that the kingdom of God works like a seed. So, if we are to understand God’s kingdom and how He operates, we need to understand seeds.
Seeds
* A seed is alive: it contains life.
Your physical senses are incapable of judging whether a seed is alive or not. You cannot see, feel, hear, smell, or taste the life in a seed. There is only one way to prove a seed is alive — plant it.
* A seed does nothing until planted.
Seeds do not grow sitting in a sack on your shelf. They must be planted in the proper place.
If you desire the Word of God to produce in your life, you must decide to plant the Word in your heart and mind.
The best way to plant the seed of God’s Word in your life is by speaking the Word. Hearing others speak the Word is good — but will not produce as bountiful a harvest as speaking the Word yourself.
Speaking God’s Word with your mouth is essential. As we speak God’s Word we are planting the seed in our heart for the harvest of results we desire.
ROMANS 10:10
10 For with the heart one believes to righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made to salvation.
Whatever you need to be saved or delivered from, confession (what you say) is essential.
* A seed is much smaller than the plant it produces.
The problem you face may seem huge. In comparison, a scripture may seem very small. But when planted, that Word will grow in you and overcome the problem.
* A seed always produces after its kind.
GALATIANS 6:7
7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap.
Whatever you need, or desire, find scriptures relating to that. Then plant those scriptures inside you in abundance. Those seeds will grow up and produce a harvest of what you need or desire.
* A seed is powerful.
As a seed begins to grow, it will push up dirt, rocks, etc. Whatever the obstacles are, God’s Word planted in your heart will push them out of the way.
* A seed begins its growth in secret (underground).
The only way to tell if a seed is growing is to dig it up, or wait for a plant to appear. If you dig up a seed, you may kill it.
* A seed takes time to produce.
No one expects a seed to produce a harvest the same day that seed is planted.
Sometimes the Word of God seems to spring up and bear fruit immediately. Yet, if we knew the details, we would understand that the fruit of the Word grew in that person’s life over time.
* A seed is persistent.
A seed never gives up, but works day and night. Even when you are sleeping, the seed you have planted is working to grow and express itself in a fruitful harvest.
* A seed is not affected by other seeds.
Whatever happens to other seeds does not make any difference to a specific seed. Each seed sticks to its own task. One wheat seed planted in a corn field will still produce wheat. Seed does not become discouraged, or quit, even if other seeds die.
* A seed will stop growing without nourishment.
Planting a seed is not enough to assure a harvest. Seed must be protected and taken care of until harvest time. A seed which is dug up, or not watered, will not produce.
* More seeds planted produce a larger harvest.
2 CORINTHIANS 9:6
6 But this I say: He who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully.
Think on these truths about seeds. Allow the Holy Spirit to help you apply them to the role of God’s Word in your life.
hi Vanessa
very good commentary on seed. May I use it for a post sometime? I would cite you as the contributor.
To God be the glory, of course Marianne. Thank you for allowing me to be a part of this thread. God bless you. i will be checking in.
God’s blessings in the New Covenant (after the cross) are not dependent on our knack to impress Him with our law keeping, in this case, our ability to give money. If we really had to sow money to receive God’s blessings, it wouldn’t be called “grace” anymore, would it? Because the beauty of grace is in the fact that it took everything we deserved (punishment for sin) and was placed on Jesus and that He freely gave us everything which we didn’t deserve, namely love, forgiveness, blessings, salvation, healing, finances, etc. So by teaching people that they need to tithe first in order for God to bless them, is essentially throwing God’s free gift back into His face and opting to buy it from Him instead. We are His sons and daughters with an inheritance, not servants earning wages.
good point!
Gal. 2:20 “I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me”.
Eph. 1:3 “Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ”.
We must sow what has been sown into us — Jesus Christ.
In so doing, through the “SEED” of Abraham, all nations will be blessed.
Matt. 25:34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by Father, take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me’ “.
Col. 1:7 “…Christ in you, the hope of glory”.
I like William’s comment very much.
Mat 13:23 And he that was sown upon the GOOD GROUND, this is he that hears the word, and understands it; who verily bears fruit, and brings forth, some a 100-fold, some 60, some 30.
Mat 13:24 Another parable set he before them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man that sowed GOOD SEED in his field:
There is a very good article on this subject @
http://www.pursuingthetruth.org
“Tithing, Giving, Sowing and Reaping”
Church leaders need to be careful about what they promote and ask believers to support. It seems to me, that we (the Church) have wrongly defined “kingdom or spiritual success/growth”.
I have heard a minister state, “If you don’t build bigger and better, the people want come and they want stay”.
Today, Churches are sending tithe notifications and asking their members to make sacrificial offerings to meet budgets and sustain large organizations. It is no wonder the “sowing & reaping” message is spreading.
In the letters to the “seven churches” in Revelation, some churches had serious problems. Jesus did not tell the beleivers who had not stained their garments to leave and start another church or movement. Repentance and faithfulness was His message.
Let us give to each other, the same grace and mercy we have received from the Father in Christ.
Be a cheerful giver, of all the things you have been freely given!
i agree that we should give to each other, and not to large organizations with superfluous budgets.
The reason there’s so much religious trickery in many churches is because there is so many bible illiterates who are fed hand me down messages and have not read the entire bible word for word starting in Genesis to the end of Revelation for themselves.
Many preachers teach as if the Old Covenant laws were also binding laws for New Covenant Gentile Christians. NOT SO! Most Christians are clueless as to the New Covenant gift of Grace they have been freely given because of their faith in Jesus. All Christians need a full understanding of what happened on the cross when Jesus said Paid in Full, as in It is finished means.
The Passover High Holy Day is approaching for Orthodox Jews. God told the Nation of Israel to remember to celebrate their deliverance from Egypt forever as a Memorial to him. How many Gentile Christians even know what day the Passover is on, let alone celebrate this day? Yet preachers pick out Malachi 3:8-10 which was just one law out of a total of 613 Old Covenant law that God mandated. Goggle Judaism 101 613 Levitical laws for the rest. James 2:10 said breaking one law made one guilty of breaking them all. However, most Christians will be hard pressed to name the original ten, let alone all 613!
Galatians 3:13 “Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us– for it is written, “CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE “–
Galatians 3:14 “so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith”
Hebrews 8:6 “But now Jesus, our High Priest, has been given a ministry that is far superior to the old priesthood, for he is the one who mediates for us a far better covenant with God, based on better promises”.
Hebrews 8:7 “For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another”.
Hebrews 7:12 “For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well”.
Acts 13:39
..and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.
Colossians 2 :14 “by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.
Romans 8:32 “Since God did not spare his only Son but gave him up for us all, surely he will also with him FREELY GIVE US ALL THINGS.
Romans 10:4 ” Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for everyone who believes”
John 19:30 “Paid in Full, It is Finished”
The above scriptures pretty much puts holes in the Malachi 3:8-10 and that curse preachers try to fear & guilt Christians with to enforce tithing ten percent of every dollar. I may not be the brightest person that ever lived but I do understand you can’t be cursed while redeemed from the curse and I do understand verse 14 said The Blessings of Abraham come from Jesus and faith in the promise.
I also understand the one time Tithe Abraham gave from the spoils of war
(what he took from the war he won) is not the same as the way they teach Christians to tithe continuously from every dollar all the time.
It seems to me that you went all out of the way to interpret seed time and harvest, what you just might accomplish is to stop many people that are already confused about giving from paying tithes and offerings. Will a man rob God? Read Malachi 3:8-10.
In the book of Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for what so ever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
The emphasis is on whatsoever, (whatever).
If you sow evil, you will reap evil, if you sow good you will reap good, if you sow financially you will reap financially.
In our giving, while God requires us to pay our tithes and offerings so that the church can operate in a sufficient manner, after all if the church can’t pay the electric bill, the water or heating bill it can slow things down a bit, what do you think
Dr Robert L Watson
dear Dr Watson
First of all, if people want to do this, this is their right.
Show me in scripture if you sow money, you get money back.
If I plant a dollar bill, it will rot.
If I invest money in a church, or other place, there is no guarantee that I will get money back. Actually, I have experienced more money problems while tithing, and more blessings when I didn’t. Someone else may have a different experience.
As for what god requires of believers in the NT, we should look in the NT, not the old, as the old was nailed to the cross.
A discussion of my thoughts on tithing is here:
http://heavenawaits.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/tithing-for-jews-and-christians-for-internet-pdf-conversion.pdf
Again, people will do what they feel is right, but this is my view.
I do support the idea of offerings for a church that is active in winning the lost, and teaching new converts.
best wishes
Dr. Watson, any appeal for money that promises you something from God in return is not true biblical giving and is a perversion of the Gospel. God’s blessings & promises can’t be bought. It’s only by Grace that Jesus has given us all of His provision FREELY not by our efforts! -Gal. 1:6, Acts 8:20, Rom. 11:6. When we give in order to get in return the heart of giving is changed. It is about true biblical love – An unselfish love that gives and expects nothing in return. Giving under the NT is what you purpose in your heart (cheerfully) -2 Cor. 9:7 not a 10% law imposed upon as in the OT. God’s blessings in the New Covenant (after the cross) are not dependent on our knack to impress Him with our law keeping, in this case, our ability to give money. If we really had to sow money to receive God’s blessings, it wouldn’t be called “grace” anymore, would it? Because the beauty of grace is in the fact that it took everything we deserved (punishment for sin) and was placed on Jesus and that He freely gave us everything which we didn’t deserve, namely love, forgiveness, blessings, salvation, healing, finances, etc. So by teaching people that they need to tithe first in order for God to bless them, is essentially throwing God’s free gift back into His face and opting to buy it from Him instead. We are we are sons and daughters with an inheritance, not servants earning wages.
The Church amid their tithing rants, and obligatory giving has expelled grace giving. They allow no opportunity for the children of God to use any discernment or spiritual intelligence when it’s time to give. Instead, many pastors preach on Sunday morning, that 10% of your overall income belongs to this organization. No discernment allowed. No Spirit guidance. No and’s, if’s, or but’s about it. The children of God who are reborn in his Spirit are not allowed to exercise the gift of giving. Churches say that we are allowed to practice Spirit-led giving with offerings, but first we must meet the tithing obligation. Many pastors think that if we were left up to grace giving without a standard to uphold, then everyone would would stop giving. This is not just a judgment on human kind, it is also a judgment on the Spirit of God. Isn’t the Spirit capable of calling and equipping people to perform ministry? There is no command to feed a certain amount of poor people. Also there is no command to witness to a certain amount of unsaved. Neither of these endeavors have ceased just because there is no minimum requirement that we had to meet. It takes faith on behalf of churches and pastors to allow the Holy Spirit to direct people in giving rather than rely on a law (10%) that enables a predictable amount of income each week. With grace giving, the amount is unpredictable, and it shows how tithing has been the security blanket for church budgets and pastoral salaries for ages. Grace giving has been expelled because it makes pastoral salaries, and church budgets nervous. Pastors, if you truly want your congregation to be led by the Spirit, then let’s begin with your pocket book. It’s funny how churches extract their finances from their attendees but expect the people to use their faith to get theirs from God.
In the Book of Acts, it says that the grace of God was so strongly at work that no one had any needs and that some would sell what they owned and give it to the apostles to distribute to the ones who needed it.
Today, the money is given to pastors to pay for building fees for megachurches and so that highly paid professional pastors can go on expensive cruises or trips to Hawaii with people’s tithe money, while the congregants struggle to pay their bills and put food on the table.
Something is very, very wrong.
SOMEBODY HELP ME OUT HERE, IM SO CONFUSED ON THE MATTER OF FINANCIAL PROSPERITY, I KNOW THAT GOD TALKS ABOUT US PROSPERING AS OUR SOUL PROSPERS, AND SEEK FIRST THE KINGDOM AND ALL THESE THINGS SHALL BE ADDED UNTO YOU, ITS NOT A SIN TO BE RICH, GOD HIMSELF CHOOSES WHO WILL BE THE RICH AND THE POOR, BUT I DO KNOW ALSO THAT IM MORE BLESSED TO BE POOR AS I HAVE TO LEAN MORE HEAVILY ON HIM TO PROVIDE FOR MY NEEDS, WHICH OBVIOUSLY BRINGS ME CLOSER TO HIM, SO IM RICHER THAN THE RICH BUT NOT IN THE FINANCIAL SENSE, THATS NOT TO SAY THAT I WOULD TURN AWAY FINANCIAL PROSPERITY BECAUSE I HAVE DESIRES THAT WOULD NEED EXTREME FINANCIAL PROVISION, BUT SO FAR NEITHER MY HEARTS DESIRE OR FINANCIAL BLESSING TO SEE IT COME TO PASS HAVE YET MANIFESTED, I THINK A BALANCED VIEW ON THE SUBJECT IS NEEDED HERE, ITS WRONG TO BE A PULLPIT MONEY MAKER I KNOW THAT, BUT IF A PERSONS REASONS FOR WANTING TO BE RICH ARE HONORABLE AND GODLY THEN GOD WILL MAKE A WAY FOR THAT TO HAPPEN, THERES ONE SCRIPTURE WHICH OFFERS A LITERAL MEANING FOR WHAT IS SOWN, AND THAT IS,’ WHAT WE SOW IN TEARS WE WILL REAP IN JOY’, SO LETS AS OUR HEAVENLY DAD WHAT THE LITERAL MEANINGS ARE FOR THE OTHER SOWING SCRIPTURES, ANY WAY BOTHERS AND SISTERS I HOPE TO HAVE YOUR FEEDBACK ON THIS, AND LETS MAKE SURE WE ALL DO EVERYTHING IN LOVE, LETS JUST DO WHAT WE DO SIMPLY BECAUSE WE LOVE OUR JESUS. GOD BLESS YOU’S. DENEAZE
DENEAZE,
MONEY IS NOT EVIL.
MONEY IS A TOOL THAT CAN BE EITHER USED TO HELP OTHERS, (OUT OF A LOVING HEART), AND BLESS THEM WITH THE NECESSITY’S OF LIFE.
OR, IT CAN BECOME AN IDOL.
IN MATTHEW 6:24. THE LORD OUR GOD OF SALVATION SAY’S, “NO MAN CAN SERVE TWO MASTERS: FOR EITHER HE WILL HATE THE ONE, AND LOVE THE OTHER; OR ELSE HE WILL HOLD TO THE ONE, AND DESPISE THE OTHER. YE CANNOT SERVE GOD AND MAMMON.”
THE BOTTOM-LINE IS THE HEART OF WHO HAS IT.
DO THEY UTILIZE IT FREELY FOR THE LOVING BENEFIT OF OTHERS, OR DO THEY HOLD ON TO IT TIGHTLY, WITHIN GRASPED FIST?
IT ALL HAS TO DO WITH THE HEART, AND WHETHER YOU HAVE THE LORD’S HEART.
BE BLESSED IN THE LORD OUR GOD.
SHALOM
Thank you Deneaze for the comment. I agree that if someone can be trusted with money, that God may bless them, knowing they will share what they have. Not many people are like that, but I want to allow for the small group who would be generous, and not selfish.
Marianne,
When you found out about my poverty, you offered me help right away.
Though I didn’t except it, (being aware of your own situation, and knowing in my own heart that the Lord my God provides), you demonstrated the Lords heart.
King David was a man after the LORDS own Heart.
You are a daughter that does the same.
I love you.
Be Blessed in the HOLY GOD OF OUR SALVATION. AMEN.
you too
THANKYOU
DENEAZE,
YOU ARE WELCOME.
I HOPE THAT WHAT MARIANNE AND I SAID MADE SENSE FOR YOU.
BE LEAD BY THE SPIRIT.
TRUST THAT GOD THE FATHER DOES THINGS THAT WE SIMPLY DON’T UNDERSTAND. (TRUST ME ON THAT ONE. LOL.) BUT THAT THEY ARE ALL FOR HIS GLORY AND HIS PURPOSE.
KEEP THE FAITH IN OUR LORD AND KNOW THAT YOU ARE IN LOVING HANDS NO MATTER WHAT YOUR CIRCUMSTANCES ARE.
BE BLESSED.
THANKYOU GUYS SO VERY MUCH, I NEED LOTS OF ENCOURAGEMENT AND PRAYERS AT THE MOMENT, MAY I OFFER ANY UP FOR YOU GUYS, PLEASE LET ME KNOW, GODS BLESSINGS. DENEAZE
DENEAZE,
SURE…. PRAYERS FOR EACHOTHER ARE ALWAYS WELCOME.
“YOU CAN PRAY THAT I FULFILL WHAT IS GODS WILL FOR ME SHORTLY.
THAT HE BE MY STRENGTH IN MY WEAKNESS, AND THAT HE BE GLORIFIED BY MY HUMBLE OBEDIENCE.”
THAT WOULD BE APPRECIATED.
I WILL PRAY THAT HE PROVIDES YOU WITH BOTH TRUST AND FAITH.
BE BLESSED IN THE LORD GOD OF OUR SALVATION.