What does YHVH really mean?
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~ by Marianne on February 17, 2013.
Posted in christianity, church, god, jesus, messiah, prophecy, religion, yahweh Tags: behold the man, burning bush, god's name, who is jesus, yhvh
Reblogged this on servehiminthewaiting and commented:
shekinah419 said this on February 17, 2013 at 6:39 pm | Reply
2~18~5994 President’s Day
The meaning of the Name YHWH?
“The Name, Yahweh, is composed of parts of the verb, “to be”, and signifies “Selt-Existent”.
~ A.B. Traina in the preface to The Holy Name Bible, 1963
“. .What is his name? What shall I say unto them?
And Elohim said unto Moses, AYAH-ASHER-AYAH. (I will to be what I will to
be) And He said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I WILL BE hath sent me unto you.” Exodus 3:13-14 Holy Name Bible
“I AM THAT I AM” King James Version
Verse 15: “This is My Name forever, and this is My MEMORIAL unto all generations.” Yahweh
4yahshua said this on February 18, 2013 at 7:01 pm | Reply
YHVh is not a form of the verb “to be”
ask any hebrew scholar.
The name of God is “I will be that I will be”
YHVH is a description of the angel that was standing there, who we know today as the Lord yahsua. moses saw the crucifed messiah, and did not know a word for this so he wrote it out in pictures, yod, hey,vav, hey.
People have turned it into a word and a name, and that is fine, so we can refer to this, but it is still a “word” to describe the messiah
Marianne said this on February 18, 2013 at 8:00 pm | Reply
A.B. Traina (long deceased) was a Hebrew scholar!
The name God is from the name of the ancient Babylonian deity of Fortune. Strongs Hebrew Concordance #’s 1408, 1409
The name Lord = the pagan idol name Baal!
Why do you still use it?? Strong’s Hebrew Concordance # 1168
That angel was NOT Yahshua! The voice that spoke through the bush was Yahweh’s! There isn’t any mention of Moses seeing the crucified Messiah. Just where did you get THIS???
You seem to grasp on to error. When will you choose to believe the SAVING TRUTH as it is in Yahweh and His Son Yahshua???
I PRAY that you will! That is WHY I am writing these words!
4yahshua said this on February 19, 2013 at 7:06 am | Reply
then traina should have known what i said.
god is a generic term…..the bible calls him elohim
the voice that spoke was elohim, according to the bible
I got what I did by reading the context correctly.
yashua was the angel of the Lord, that is what he was called in his preincarnate form. there are passages throughout the OT showing that he was more than an angel, forgiving sins of Joshua, etc.
I believe in elohim and his son YHVH, who is yahsua.
go to the main page of the post
in hebrew, “ani” means “I am.” not YHVH
God actually said ” אֶהְיֶה אֲשֶׁר אֶהְיֶה,” as his name, not יְהוָה
that is translated I shall be that I shall be, not I am
in english letters, god (elohim) said his name was HYHA, not HVHY
so, the point is that YHVH was not given by god elohim to be a name.
it was a description
the name officially given was “I am”
but YHVH is written there…after writing “angel”..
what moses was doing was describing what he saw
“angel of the Lord” was actually meant to be the “angel, arm and hand, behold the man with his hands and arms raised up, with a nail…..behold the man with the man with his hands and arms raised up”
this site was just as amazing as the burning bush.
moses had never seen a crucifixion.
he saw an “angel that was a crucified man”
Marianne said this on February 19, 2013 at 12:41 pm | Reply
Marianne, I find that your posts are often misleading and the True Names of the Father and Son misspelled or made to be equal with the pagan idol names. By continually doing this, you ARE taking Yahweh’s Name in vain, and Yahshua’s, His Son!
Yahshua the Messiah Is not “the Angel of Yahweh” in Exodus 3:2. Angels are created beings BELOW Him. We are created a little lower than the angels, Psalm 8:3-5.
The name God is NOT the same as Elohim no matter how much that you wish it is! It comes from ancient Babylonian worship just like ALL of the pagan names in Christianity!The name Lord is a direct translation of the idol name Baal, the pagan sun idol of ancient Babylon. Strongs Hebrew Concordance #1168.
The pagan idol Greek name of (Cristos Zeus, “Jesus Christ”) is the meaning of the #666 in Revelation 13:18 (Greek Diaglott, Free on The Web)
The first of the three Greek symbols is a CROSS, X as in Xmas!
It’s the Greek number for 6 called “hex” and is also the symbol for “Christ”. Hex in English has also come to mean “Evil Spell”.
From the Greek we have The Mark, Number, and Name of the image (idol) of he beast (power)!
WHAT ARE THEY??
The pagan idol name “Jesus Christ” containing a CROSS, the chief image (idol) and MARK of the Vatican’s Roman Catholic Church
which has NOW taken over ALL of Christianity!!
“COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE!” ~ Yahshua the Messiah
Pray NOW to Yahweh asking to believe in HIM and His Son Yahshua!
THIS MAY BE YOUR ONLY ALTAR CALL!
Yahshua the Messiah returns SOON and no Vatican Christian CROSS can stop HIM! HalleluYah!
4yahshua said this on February 24, 2013 at 7:37 am | Reply
you are off balance .
The bible uses the word elohim, it is from hebrew, and is the word Moses wrote in genesis. the word elohim is used throughout the OT.
If you cannot make the connection between Yashua and the cross, you are reading the wrong bible, if you have read it at all.
Marianne said this on February 24, 2013 at 10:16 am | Reply
4Yahshua, you seem to be totally deluded. The fact that the FIRST Greek letter of 666 looks like a cross is meaningless. And you obviously have no idea what it means to honor God’s name, or to take the name of the Lord in vain. Honoring God’s name means honoring His character, who He is. It’s not about spelling or pronunciation. And the Hebrew “take” actually means “to carry” or “to bear.” It means that if you’re going to claim to be a Christian, then live it. For example, stop judging and condemning other Christians for trivial matters. That job is already taken….by Satan, the accuser of the brethren. But hey, if you want to be like the Pharisees, who had the devil as their father, go right ahead. Keep straining gnats. But be careful, you might choke on a camel.
These forums are for those who want to learn from others and grow as Christians. It sounds like you already know everything and all you’re doing is perusing the site looking for people to condemn. You sound “puffed up” with spiritual pride.
As for the Angel of the Lord. The word “angel” means “messenger” or “one sent.” Jesus is the one sent by the Father. He is THE Angel of the Lord.
“When YAHWEH saw that he had gone over to the bush, ELOHIYM called to him from within the bush… Exodus 3:4
“ELOHIYM said to Moses, I AM THAT I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites ‘I AM has sent me to you.’” Exodus 3:14
“ELOHIYM also said to Moses, “Say to the Israelite, ‘YAHWEH…has sent me to you.’” Exodus 3:15
Yahshua (Jesus) said, “Before Abraham was, I AM.” John 8:58.
Yahshua means “Yahweh saves.” Who’s the savior? Yahweh.
And by way, as for Yahweh “judging us ALL!”
“Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgement to His Son.” John 5:22.
Maybe you should read your Bible instead of reading blogs.
Todd Ott said this on February 27, 2013 at 3:23 pm | Reply
Todd, please read it again for yourself.
Revelation 13:18 Greek Diaglott It’s free on The Web. There is NO excuse for NOT doing so!
The X, Greek #6, called “hex” (This word has also come come to mean “evil spell” in English.) is the same as X in Xmas, meaning “Christ”! Do you see any connection at all??
I have NOT ever claimed to be Christian here! You really should understand that by now!
The pagan Greek name “Christ Jesus” means “The Saving or Shining Zeus”.
The Name Yahshua means, “The Salvation of Yahweh”.
The meaning of the word “angel” in Exodus 3?:
Hebrew Dictionary #4397 malak, from an unused root meaning to despatch as a deputy, a messenger spec, of G-d, i.e. an angel (also a prophet, priest, or teacher): ambassador, angel, king, messenger
NONE of these quite mean the Son of Yahweh, do they?
Are you having any real fun (and peace) ignoring the facts??
“And if you call on the Father, Who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sorjourning here in fear. , ,” I Peter 1:17
“Who when He was reviled, reviled not again; when He suffered, He threatened not; but committed Himself to Him that judgeth righteously:” 1 Peter 2:23
“Fear Yahweh, and give glory to Him; for the hour of His judgement is come: and worship Him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.” Revelation 14:7 Holy Name Bible
Yes Todd. I read Yahweh’s Word A LOT more than any blog!
4yahshua said this on March 3, 2013 at 1:19 am | Reply
Close, Elohim was pluralistic for “gods” he will stand in the midst of the elohim or council of thegods. As it says even we will judge angels. These that set themselves up over mankind. Samael/yaldaboath is who many worship as “sun” god/creator god. Thus princes of chaos are the ones in psalm 82 that were to die like men, fall like any number of the princes. We simply call God who is spirit, higher than any gods, he is Father/Abbah. Fighting over names is a no no. Emmanuel=messiah Father/Abbah=God in the highest. No one has ever seen the Father except Emmanuel, not even Moses
Chrys4440 said this on April 22, 2013 at 5:41 am | Reply
Marianne said this on April 22, 2013 at 12:21 pm | Reply
Yes. Some translate the meaning “Hand revealed, nail revealed.” However both point to Christ.
breadandwineministriesshema said this on February 20, 2013 at 4:42 am | Reply
Marianne, just remember that when you point a finger at me (or anyone) calling us “off balance” ~ you have three fingers pointing back right at you!
Yahshua is the Name of the Son of Yahweh, NOT the name “Yashua”
which does NOT contain the Father’s Name of Yah.
Yes, Elohim is in the Hebrew Scriptures but this Name/Title is NOT equal to the pagan name of Lord which comes from he idol name Baal!
Yes, Yahshua died for all the saints who choose to believe in HIM. I never said that He did not. Insulting me will NOT improve your standing with anyone reading your words or with Yahweh Who judges us ALL!
4yahshua said this on February 24, 2013 at 6:54 pm | Reply
your accusations against me are out of balance. that is a correct statement and not pointing fingers.
You initiated this with a series of negative comments and judgments, and I pointed out the negativity.
I cannot change your heart or your mind.
And I have the right to say you are wrong.
Marianne said this on February 25, 2013 at 1:01 am | Reply
I pointed out truth from Scripture and the Greek translation. You have every right to say that I am wrong and decide to keep your pagan beliefs. However, sadly, instead of being blessed, in my opinion, you are choosing to be very lost.
4yahshua said this on February 25, 2013 at 5:56 am | Reply
I think it is you that is very lost. the gate to heaven is not a spelling test.
while I think you are trying to be accurate as to how to pronounce the name of the Lord, which I spell Yashua, and and you spell Yahshua, your heart is full of condemnation for others.
it is this spirit of condemnation that concerns me.
unlike God, you cannot see the heart, and you “blast” people with arguments and accusations in a legalistic fashion.
Marianne said this on February 25, 2013 at 11:07 am | Reply
Marianne, I have not condemned anyone here. It is the original Scripture belief that I have shared. This truth makes you upset and I can do nothing about that. When I was presented with this truth about Yahweh and His Son Yahshua over forty years ago, I. too, was angry, and prayerfully set about to disprove it in Scripture.
I could not. In essence I was like a Berean.
Marianne, it’s NOT a spelling test but we ARE tested on WHO we will worship.
The choice has been made clear: Yahweh and His Son Yahshua
Or, the idols of ancient Babylon that have become the deities of Mystery Babylon (Roman Catholicism and Her Harlot daughters comprising Christianity)!
4yahshua said this on February 28, 2013 at 7:39 am | Reply
your spirit of condemnation is obvious. others have noticed it and made comments. and yes, you attack people.
we are not pagans here
Marianne said this on February 28, 2013 at 7:40 am | Reply
1 Corinthians 1:18.,
“For the preaching of the “cross” is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.”
Yeshua, (Jesus Christ), Melech Kavod, (is the King of Glory).
Accepted said this on February 25, 2013 at 2:14 am | Reply
The “cross”? Strong’s Greek Dictionary # 4716 “a stake or post”.
I am not certain that Yahshua gave His Life for us on a cross, especially a Christian one!
I AM CERTAIN that a CROSS is “The Mark of the Beast” as I wrote in posts above. Yeshua is a name that does NOT contain the Father’s Name, John 5:43. In no way does the non-name Yeshua or the Son’s Name Yahshua equal the pagan name of Jesus Christ!
The latter name “morphed” from the name of the Greek pagan idol name of Cristos Zeus with great help from the Roman Catholic Church and now (as of the last few hundred years) her harlot “daughters” the Protestant churches!
4yahshua said this on February 25, 2013 at 6:11 am | Reply
now you are cheating.
stake or post was definition 2 of 2 defintions.
1) a cross
a) a well known instrument of most cruel and ignominious punishment, borrowed by the Greeks and Romans from the Phoenicians; to it were affixed among the Romans, down to the time of Constantine the Great, the guiltiest criminals, particularly the basest slaves, robbers, the authors and abetters of insurrections, and occasionally in the provinces, at the arbitrary pleasure of the governors, upright and peaceable men also, and even Roman citizens themselves
b) the crucifixion which Christ underwent
2) an upright “stake”, esp. a pointed one, used as such in fences or palisades
It also should not matter what the cross looked like. Yashua / Yahshua died on one, and it is still a symbol for christianity.
the current shape of the cross is a reasonable one.
If the church was using an upside down cross or a broken cross, then I could see an argument there.
Marianne said this on February 25, 2013 at 11:16 am | Reply
I understand what 4 Yahshua is saying. Once I found what Messiah’s given name was in Hebrew, I could no longer use the name jesus. I tried when speaking with my Christian brothers and sisters, but realized I couldn’t do it any longer. With that being said, I found a website that explains in detail what she is saying. I had never read any of this previous to now. I personally believe she is more correct about Messiah’s name of Yahshua, but I am not sure to the degree we are to press it with others who do not fully understand. I will post the website and those who read will be responsible for what they do or don’t do with it. That is between them and Yah……
Al said this on February 25, 2013 at 8:35 pm | Reply
Here’s a site for you to consider as well.
Be Blessed in Yeshua our Most Holy and Precious Savior.
Accepted said this on February 25, 2013 at 8:46 pm | Reply
Good to hear from You Gregg,
I understand what is being said here and everyone needs to be persuaded in their own minds according to what we understand to be the truth, which as everyone knows, varies greatly. The bottom line is, words and names have meanings. If a person chooses that which appeals to them phonetically or because it’s meaning is based in Greek or Hebrew, or some other language, then so be it. We do not stand or fall to man, but rather to Yah. I believe we are to do things with a pure conscience to that which we know (understand) to be true unto our Father.
With that said, below is “another link” that, in brevity, gives a response to both names:
As always, a joy to converse with you
Be Blessed my brother
Al said this on February 25, 2013 at 9:12 pm | Reply
Man I have been out all day and haven’t had the chance to read the first one in its entirety yet? lol.
I will read and consider your links, I hope that you will do the same.
I do agree with you regarding our hearts and conscience above though.
The Father knows full well whether we are pure and sincere in our techinah.
You be Blessed as well brother.
Accepted said this on February 25, 2013 at 10:20 pm | Reply
I understand getting the name right, as long as the heart is right too
Marianne said this on February 25, 2013 at 10:35 pm | Reply
I meant no offence. My response was only about the subject being discussed. You are right though-dotting all the i’s and crossing all the t’s in an in your face manner, diminishes a persons point and makes it unproductive. I did not mean to imply I was approving of her tone.
Al said this on February 25, 2013 at 10:58 pm | Reply
that is ok. I was just explaining my response.
she is right about the pronunciation…..buts spelling or pronouncing something wrong should not put a person in hell.
Marianne said this on February 25, 2013 at 11:23 pm | Reply
Glory be! Do you also see the “light” as it is in Yahshua the Messiah? If so, I rejoice with you. I have always been pretty direct in my witness but I do not believe that I am being rude. Pointing out a position from Scripture should be prayerfully considered.
It is my opinion that we are not “a little saved” or “a little lost”. I believe that both of these conditions mean, “TOTALLY LOST”!
I am really very tired after 65 years of seeing family of origin, husbands, grown children, neighbors, deceived souls on blogs like this one, and even those professing belief in Yahweh and Yahshua choosing to go to “The Lake of Fire” by wrong belief and actions according to Yahweh’s Word.
Believe His Word! Yahweh knows if you are honoring His Name! It’s in His First Commandment!
Al, I hope and pray that you are strong enough spiritually to resist, “The Mark of the Beast”. IT’S COMING!!
4yahshua4yahshua said this on February 26, 2013 at 6:36 am | Reply
if you think this is a blog to encourage people to be deceived, then you are deluded.
coming here to start trouble, declaring people are going to the lake of fire, because they are not from your legalistic mindset, is not acceptable.
either show respect for others, or leave this site.
your false accusations are harassment
while you may be “tired” of seeing deceived souls like ours, we are also “tired” of trolls coming here with religious spirits trying to create division.
you have your notice. you need to change your attitude and behavior in order to stay here.
Marianne said this on February 26, 2013 at 7:15 am | Reply
Marianne, I think I am encouraging Al (and anyone reading) to believe the truth as it is in Yahweh and His Son Yahshua. Your thread came to my e-mail. That’s why I posted on it. Please notice that I am NOT posting on any more of YOUR threads. I just keep remembering that you calling me “a deceiver”,”legalistic”, “a troll”, and “lost” apparently are words that you apply to Yahshua Himself. This is because it seems to me that you do not want the truth as it is in Him! Christianity is the WORST of spells. But it is one that you have to choose to wake up from yourself! You will be blessed (and saved!) if you try!
4yahshua said this on February 28, 2013 at 5:33 pm | Reply
Greetings again Al! I want you to know that I just read your link and find it very interesting. However, I believe that A.B. Traina did not use the letter J in his writings but was adamant about the Names being spelled Yahweh and Yahshua. He was dead by the time I came into The True Names in the early 1970′s. I did not know that he wrote “The Origin of Christianity”. Possibly, it was an earlier work, He did write a wonderful preface to “The Holy Name Bible” (available on eBay, etc.) which really explains WHY we need to believe in Yahweh and His Son Yahshua. That is, if we want to be saved.
4yahshua said this on February 28, 2013 at 5:17 pm | Reply
So…. I am wondering something here…. how do you believe that you have received, “salvation and eternal life”?
What was the process that took place by the Son of YHVH that allowed for you to attain that?
I would appreciate a full explaination if you could provide it for me.
Accepted said this on February 28, 2013 at 6:47 pm | Reply
Accepted, I do not understand WHY you are asking me this. I have been quoting the Old and New Testaments ALL through my posts. I believe that Yahshua the Son of Yahweh came to die for ALL of us! However, only those that choose to believe on HIM are redeemed.They receive salvation and eternal life. I prayed to Yahweh the Father asking to believe on His Son Yahshua for my salvation. (I did this after I had already been a Christian for several years beginning at the age of 12 and later in 1968)
Not long after I chose to believe in Them I came across a quote by Samuel Clemmons who chose the pen name of “Mark Twain”. He wrote these words
generations ago but they are MORE true today:
“Man is always trying to make God in his own image.”
Yahweh “winketh” at all of us in the times of our believing in ignorance.
However, when the truth comes to each of us, we are commanded to repent. Acts 17:30
Sadly, there are those who THINK they believe the truth but do not because they are mightily deceived. These include. the Jews who cried for Barrabas (whose name means, The Son of the Father) to be released instead of Yahshua,Yahweh’s Only Son, the foolish virgins who honored another deity until it was too late (the OIL is HIS Name, Song of Solomon 1:3), and all those steadfastly clinging to Roman Catholic Christianity in all of its forms no matter how much truth about the Father and Son (Yahweh and Yahshua) comes their way. They seem to keep looking for “hooks” to hang their doubts upon.
The latter ones in the U.S will receive “The Mark of the Beast” (if they have not already!) when this 31 year Bush Senior White House under The Vatican’s Christian Cross enforces, “The Mark of the Beast”. Revelation 13:18 SOON!
You can call the belief in Yahweh and His Son Yahshua “a spelling test”, a cult, whatever you want to call it. You can attack the messengers because you do not like this message. The simple fact is those who are saved and sealed (called saints in Revelation 14:1) LOVE the truth! Why ELSE would they reject the national religion?
Yahshua said, “And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” John 8:33 You WILL BE through HIM! May you also have this very blessed eternal experience is my prayer. HalleluYah!
4yahshua said this on March 2, 2013 at 5:23 am | Reply
Adar 20, 5773.
Okay, thanks for answering a small portion of the question that I had asked above, (before you sort of rambled off on a few irrelevant aspects).
So by what you wrote, you believe in the Scripture that is recorded within the Old & New Testaments, EXCEPT you have chosen to believe that the transliterated Greek name for the Son of YHVH, (Iēsous Christos), is NOT sufficient enough for YHVH to grant eternal salvation for, (though YHVH would have had a reason for the Apostles to record the Gospel in Greek, and the Name Jesus Christ would simply be the English translation for that Name).
And as well, you have also chosen to NOT believe that you received atonement for your sins, by when the Son of YHVH shed His blood upon the Cross, (and have instead chosen to believe that this Cross that He shed His Holy blood upon, (for your sins), is now a defiled object that has somehow been transformed into the “mark of the beast”.)
Is that about right then?
Well first, lets just look at the Name and what you believe.
I believe that it mere fact, that there has been no one that has walked the face of this earth for at least the last 1800 or so years, that could definitively state beyond a shadow of a doubt WHAT the Son of YHVH was called when He walked this earth. Yet you have chosen, (based upon one verse of Scripture recorded in John 5:43.), to believe that this Name is “Yahshua”, and that salvation can only be attained through this Name.
Whereas I have chosen to refer to THAT Son of YHVH by what many Hebrew scholars have chosen to refer to Him as, which would be Yeshua.
Now, if you believe that there is ONLY ONE SPECIFIC NAME in which Salvation can be attained, and since there has been no one that has walked the face of this planet for years upon years that could definitively state WHAT the Son of YHVH was called, how do you know that you have it right and that you are actually saved?
Regarding the Cross;
We know from history that it is historical fact that the Romans used to crucify criminals on a “Cross”.
The Son, (while speaking with Nicodemus), referred to this act that He would have to endure in John 3: 14,15. which was in reference to Numbers 21:8,9.
So it would seem that the Son of YHVH prophesised and said, that He would be lifted up and die on something, (which we know from history was a Cross).
Now why would He have to die that way? There would have to be a reason expressed within the Tanakh, (Old Testament)… (Right?).
Well Paul referred to that Old Testament Scripture in Galatians 3:13. when he made reference to Deuteronomy 21:22,23.
The Son of YHVH had taken upon Himself all of the sin of man and the world, and because of that, was accursed in the eyes of the Holy YHVH, and that tree that Paul is talking about is the CROSS that the Son of YHVH shed His Holy Blood upon to atone for your sins.
Leviticus 17:11., states; “For the life of the flesh [is] in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it [is] the blood [that] maketh an atonement for the soul.”
And WHERE did the Son of YHVH willingly shed His Holy Blood for a one time sin offering for those that would believe in Him in Faith?
“And, having made peace through the Blood of his “CROSS”, by Him to reconcile all things unto Himself; by Him, [I say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven.” Colossians 1:20.
So according to Leviticus 17:11., and correlating it to Colossians 1:20., it appears that the CROSS in the eyes of YHVH, is an “altar” of sorts, rather than the “mark of the beast” as you believe. And if you are wrong with that….. how can you be absolutely positive that Yahshua is absolutely correct?
John 5:43. states;
“I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.”
Well, “The Father” in the Tanakh actually has 72 Names, so WHICH NAME DID THE SON COME IN?
Or is it far more likely that when the Son of YHVH said the above that He meant it to mean, that I have come as a “Representative, or Delegate” of My Father, (Being, YHVH in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory)?
YHVH is NOT confused by What Name anyone would use. He is The Father of Majesty on High and He knows full well the heart of man.
Be Blessed in Yeshua HaNazarei Yemelekh HaYhudim.
Accepted said this on March 2, 2013 at 9:13 am | Reply
Marianne said this on March 2, 2013 at 9:44 am | Reply
Accepted, sadly, you keep ignoring “the elephant” in the room while keep finding “hooks” to hang your doubts upon! The elephant (beautiful creature made by Yahweh) in this case is the saving NAME of His Only Son Yahshua. I do not like reading His Name dragged through the mud here. You can misspell It, replace it, and say it’s the same as the Greek name of Rome’s idol, “Jesus Christ” (the #666, and “The Mark of the Beast”) but IT is NOT! By keeping this pagan name, do you realize that you are choosing to honor the Roman Catholic Pope as your earthly leader?
IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT?? Some choice!
The only reason that I reply back is because Scripture says to give a good answer for the faith.
Colossians 4:6 Saul ( His name also was never changed by believers!)
Also, I Peter 3:15 Holy Name Bible
“But sanctify Yahweh Elohim in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear: having a good conscience, that. whereas they speak evil of you, as of evil doers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good behavior in the Messiah.”
This whole deception of Christianity has made me very sad over the years.
First of all, I had to come out of IT myself so many decades ago. If it were MY decision, I would only permit the truth in this world.
However, IT IS NOT MY DECISION!
“It is Yahweh that hath made us and not we ourselves!”
King David in Psalm 100:3 Holy Name Bible
Salvation is HIS WAY or “No way!”
It seems to me that you do not want to “connect the dots”. This makes me very sad. As a prayerful Christian (aged 22) I did in 1972. That’s a very long time ago in a very different world! Since then I have learned that some ancestors of mine in the 1600′s believed the same as me. To them, the cross symbol was a curse and they would NOT recite “The Westminster Confession”. This lead to their loss of teaching positions (Oxford) and persecution. Learning this was like coming “Home” for me!
“I am Yahweh:that is My Name, and My glory will I not give to another (name) neither My praise to graven images.” Isaiah 42:8 Holy Name Bible
4yahshua said this on March 3, 2013 at 12:01 am | Reply
this is a good example of insulting others.
I can understand having a strong view or opinion and defending it, but do not come here and insist that others are dragging the NAME through the mud and are dishonoring god as pagans just because they spell the NAME different than you do.
however people spell the name, people here have great reverence for the NAME, and the person of the name, and love God with all their hearts.
For you to attack them and call them pagans, and declare they are dragging the NAME through the mud is an insult and denies their love and reverence.
you could have more kindly made your point by giving your reasons for the correct spelling, and encouraged others to do the same.
instead, you go on the attack . tongue lashing people is a bad witness to the gospel
you may have the spelling right (or wrong) but you lack the love that the person of the NAME would have shown to anyone he would have corrected.
Marianne said this on March 3, 2013 at 12:16 am | Reply
Marianne, unlike most others here including you who have personally said things against me NOT my message, I have NOT attacked anyone. I HAVE attacked the pagan names of idols that have replaced the Names of the Heavenly Father Yahweh and His Son Yahshua Who saves ALL who believe in HIM! The names of God and Jesus Christ can never and will never replace these TRUE NAMES.
Today, I also witnessed to a devout Hindu.
THE MESSAGE TO YOU ALL IS THE SAME! We have salvation and eternal life through belief in Yahshua the Son of Yahweh! HalleluYah!
4yahshua said this on March 4, 2013 at 12:47 am | Reply
you have done nothing to attack since you got here.
the message itself is accepted, about the NAME, but not the delivery style of the message, which is hypercritical and accusing.
I see no reason for you to continue to come here
Marianne said this on March 4, 2013 at 1:56 am | Reply
Allow for me to assure you of one thing here, I HAVE NO DOUBTS!
I live by Faith in the Son of YHVH as my Salvation and as the Rock of my foundation and in nothing else.
I do not, nor have I ever dragged His Precious Name through the mud here within this discussion.
On the contrary, it seems to me that you are the one that apparently has difficulty in connecting dots, and choose to instead berate others if they happen to disagree with you, though you can’t substantiate your position and what you believe Scripturally whatsoever.
So…. Believe what you will. Thankfully you are Not my judge. (Though apparently you think that you are.)
Praise be unto Yeshua, (Jesus Christ), the KING of kings and LORD of lords.
Accepted said this on March 3, 2013 at 12:46 am | Reply
Accepted, come on! You DO have great DOUBTS about the Names Yahweh and Yahshua!
My prayerful studied translation of your last sentence:
Praise “? salvation” ( Zeus Christos ~ Zeus the Saviour) The KING of Baals
and BAAL of Baals Amen (Ancient Egyptian Deity)
The saints pray and sing, “HalleluYah!” Revelation 19:6
“For I will take away the names of Baalim out of her mouth, and they shall no more be remembered by their name.” Yahweh in Hosea 2:17
4yahshua said this on March 4, 2013 at 1:19 am | Reply
You’ve stated your case,(no matter how convoluted it may be), if you have nothing to add, well it has been interesting to say the least.
Good-Bye now. Au Revior. Despedida.
Be Blessed In Christ the Lord and KING of kings.
Accepted said this on March 4, 2013 at 1:36 am | Reply
You are seriously mentally twisted. I pray you get some deliverance.
Marianne said this on March 4, 2013 at 1:49 am | Reply
God’s name is not oil. The meaning of the Song of Solomon 1:3 is that His name is like oil poured fourth. It has a sweet savour, or smell. It’s a metaphor, similar to “The name of the Lord is a strong tower…!”
Oil is a symbol of the Holy Spirit, NOT God’s name. How could the virgins not have enough of God’s Name in their flasks? How could they run out of God’s name? It is a SYMBOL, flasks being their hearts, the oil being the Holy Spirit.
Take a look at this verse.
The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, because He has anointed Me … (Luke 4:18)
The anointing (with oil) has to do with the presence of the Holy Spirit, not the name of God.
We receive the Holy Spirit, by believing the truth, the Gospel of our salvation, and having believed we are marked with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit. (Ephesians)
And what is the Gospel? Jesus died, crucified on a Roman Cross, was buried, and rose again the third day, according to the Scriptures.
(If the Seal, or Mark of God is the Holy Spirit, then the Mark of the Beast must be the spirit of the Antichrist.)
You haved turned the name of God into an idol to be worshiped. (You know what the Bible says about idolaters, don’t you?)
It’s really ironic that in your thumbnail you’re carrying a basket of fruit!
Todd Ott said this on March 2, 2013 at 10:25 am | Reply
Todd, it seems that Scripture proves you wrong on all counts. Why do you insist on twisting it to your OWN loss?? Why not let Scripture interpret itself?
Song of Solomon 1:3 The wise viirgins love HIM, that’s why they HAVE the OIL, HIS NAME! The foolish ones are content with the popular version of deceptive anti-Messiah belief, not being saved through HIM or having HIS NAME, the oil! Maybe they are out Xmas or Easter shopping!
These virgins ALL profess to be waiting for the Saviour’s return as in the ancient Hebrew wedding ceremony. Most likely, the wise virgins have warned the foolish TO GET THE OIL (many times)! But they don’t. They ALL are sleeping when suddenly they awake seeing that the Bridegroom IS finally coming! At that time the wise cannot help the foolish. The wise were anointed or sealed before they went to sleep. Now, the foolish cannot be no matter how hard they seek to be!
Which ONE of these do YOU want to be??
4yahshua said this on March 3, 2013 at 1:48 am | Reply
Good Luck Todd,
I think that someone’s “Cheese has slipped off of their cracker.”
Be Blessed In Yeshua our Precious Lamb.
Accepted said this on March 3, 2013 at 2:48 am | Reply
I agree. Did you understand my comment about her thumbnail showing her carrying a bowl of fruit? She’s as nutsy as a fruitcake!
Todd Ott said this on March 3, 2013 at 2:53 am | Reply
ok guys. be polite
Marianne said this on March 3, 2013 at 3:02 am | Reply
Couldn’t help mysef.
Accepted said this on March 3, 2013 at 3:10 am
Todd Ott said this on March 3, 2013 at 3:10 am
Hi 4 Yah,
Just checking in here to ask you my question again, and to let you know that I am serious.
What in your mind did the Son of YHVH do that atoned for your sins, so that you could receive eternal salvation?
If your explanation is fairly long, you can just post it at the bottom of the thread here and I’ll find it.
Accepted said this on March 1, 2013 at 4:59 pm | Reply
Actually, I just realized how very stupid this whole controversy is.
First thing would be is to consider that God the Father is Sovereign, and that He never does anything without intention or purpose. Therefore He had intention and purpose in having the Apostles write the New Testament in Greek. Some the reasons would be obvious, where others perhaps might not be.
However, the Gospel has done just fine the way that God decided as to how it should be presented over the last 2000 plus years.
As well, with God the Father doing the drawing, (John 6:44.) and Yeshua, (Jesus, Yahshua, Yeoshua, or whoever) being accepted by the individual as their Savior to hence be reconciled to God, (John 14:6), I am sure that God knowing the intention of their hearts, could care less if they thought that His Sons Name was “Bob”.
If that person repented and lived as righteously as they could to honor God the Father and His Son their Savior, do you think that He would deny them eternal salvation simply because they couldn’t spell or pronounce His Name correctly?
And if it wasn’t all about the sincerity of the heart, and was instead rather more about the pronunciation, then how could it be considered to be a “free gift”? (Ephesians 2:8,9.) Wouldn’t those that happened to correctly pronounce the Name, then be able to boast?
Just my thoughts.
Be Blessed in Yeshua the KING of kings no matter what Name you may use. He is our Glory and our Salvation.
Accepted said this on February 26, 2013 at 1:00 am | Reply
Meant to get back with you sooner. Well, not to make a fuss or anything, but I see a “big” problem in all of this. But understand, I am not being critical of you at all. It is rather the false notion that has been promoted in christianity that to do anything, even as a matter of honor and respect for His name, is to somehow be seen as trying to earn salvation. To make it clear, I never said anything about correct pronunciation. This isn’t about the letter of things, but rather the spirit and honor of things. The apostles rubbed elbows with Messiah for 3 1/2 years. They never got much beyond calling Messiah Master or Teacher. I don’t really see where those who knew Him and who He was, approached Him in a casual manner. He was revered and honored for who He was, with a healthy dose of fear, knowing through Peter that they were in the presence of the Son of God. But in our current time where nothing is specifically required of us, because lifting your finger to do anything is seen as working for your salvation, we have minimized our Elohim to almost ordinary status. That goes against everything in scripture. He calls us His sons and we call Him our Father. But in America that doesn’t mean too much on a human level. Our children are filled with disrespect and no honor (because their parents don’t have honor or respect) and it shows, in the way many of us approach the One who has saved us.
What is in a name? In His name is the essence of who He is to and for us. He is Yah’s salvation for His people-you & me. That is how I approach Him. I acknowlege that every time I say or think His Name. I can talk as a child to Him and be more honest with Him than with anyone else. I can be who I am with Him, but respect and honor is required, deserved, and expected. But with that said, everyone should be persuaded in their own minds on how they should approach the Creator of Everything that is.
And they that shall be from among you shall build the old ruined places, you shall restore the foundations of many generations; and you shall be called Gadar-Peretz, the restorer of paths to live in.
Blessings in Messiah to you Gregg
Al said this on February 27, 2013 at 8:16 pm | Reply
I am sorry if you somehow thought that by saying what I did above, that I don’t revere with all humbleness, honour and respect, the Father or the Son, for that was not my intention at all.
What I meant above was simply this…. during prayer I may use the Name “God” and I know, (that though I can’t use the Name that the high priest would have used during the Day of Atonement), that God knows who I am addressing.
Above I am merely applying the same reasoning and principle as that with Yeshua. That during prayer, (since there is no one living today that could definitively state what He was referred to while walking on this earth), that He knows who I am addressing myself and my heart to as well.
Though my use of “Bob” may have appeared flippant, it wasn’t if you truly understand what I am trying to say. If I approach the Divine with humbleness, appreciation, and love from a sincere heart, I am heard, whether I may have Their name wrong or not. To say otherwise would imply that the millions that have been “born again” through Faith and the name of Jesus Christ over the last couple of millennia have perhaps been lost. And I don’t believe that for one second.
Hope that clarifies your concern or any misunderstandings.
Be Blessed in Yeshua HaMashiach Melech Kavod.
Accepted said this on February 28, 2013 at 12:49 am | Reply
Good comments guys.
When i was a kid, we prayed in the Finnish language in our home. I never once thought that God did not hear our prayers. That goes for chinese, spanish, swahili, or whatever dialect you speak. You need not be an expert in Hebrew to enter his kingdom.
“Jumala” is God in Finnish, and “Jeesus” is Jesus. The J’s are pronounced as Y’s. The line of argument that says I am praying to another god because “Jumala” is not the hebrew name of God is quite ridiculous when you look at it that way, and quite frankly, insulting.
dru said this on February 28, 2013 at 1:47 am | Reply
My intent was not to offend you. I told you in the beginning of the post, that what I was saying was not directed towards you. I will say this,the name of Messiah, while not used now by the christian church, in the not too distant future will be more of the norm. But we will just have to wait for that.
One last thing; the most commonly used name of Messiah in the english language, as we all know, is Jesus (Christ). In most languages, the translated or transliterated names for Messiah are pretty much free of verbal abuse. But not so with the name Jesus-Christ. It is one of the most abused words in the english language. It is not only used in a vain manner almost continually, but is one the favorite profane words used in vulgar profanity. The question is, how does America, the light to the world, hold this dubious distinction with their name for their Messiah (Saviour)? Just wondering if you have any answers for that, because I don’t, outside of what I wrote above.
Just to say, I received Messiah in the name of “Jesus” while I was pretty young, so I understand fully all you were saying in your post.
Al said this on March 1, 2013 at 7:46 pm | Reply
I’m sorry bro, but I don’t fully understand your point?
You are going to have to make it clearer before I could possibly answer you.
I agree with all that Todd has said as well.
It is simply a matter of our heart, rather than a legalistic necessity to know and confess a Name that no one knows today.
1 Kings 8:39.
2 Chronicles 6:30.
1 Corinthians 4:5.
However, …. I don’t think that the “light of the world” is the US of A. (Yeshua is the “light of the world”, (John 8:12.) and those that follow Him and are of His Body are the “light of the world”, (Matthew 5:14.)
Clarify your point when you can find the time.
Be Blessed in Yeshua our Most Holy Savior.
Accepted said this on March 3, 2013 at 1:02 am | Reply
I understand what you are saying, but I approach Jesus as God’s salvation for me. I can talk to Jesus as a child and be more honest with Him than with anyone else. I can be who I am with Jesus and I can respect Him and honor Him because He is worthy of it. (I understand what you’re saying, though, about the Church in America. The Western world knows little about respecting parents and elders anymore. But We aren’t approaching Him casually just because we call Him Jesus. )
The writers of the New Testament called Him Teacher and Master, but it doesn’t seem like they had a problem at all calling Him Iesous either (unless you believe the NT was originally written in Hebrew like some believe.) They knew He came to save His people from their sins, even though they used Greek. I think we can love and respect Him no matter what language we use.
Todd Ott said this on March 2, 2013 at 10:56 am | Reply
Gregg and Todd,
This will be my last post on this discussion, unless someone has a “serious” comment or question. Below is a survey taken by a Christian research group:
“For today’s children, Jesus Christ is not what he used to be.
Jesus Christ is better known to schoolchildren as a swear word than as the son of God, a Christian research centre says.
National Church Life Survey researcher Ruth Powell said this was the remnant of major cultural change in the 1960s, playing itself generation by generation as baby boomers left the church.
“This generation of school-age children is the first with no residual memory, no image of church that they are rejecting – they have no reference points at all,” Dr Powell said.
The research is part of a national profile developed from the census and a community survey of 8000 people in the past year by the NCLS, a market research arm for several Christian denominations.
Dr Powell said a religious education teacher at a state school who asked her class what came to mind when she mentioned Christmas and Jesus Christ was greeted with smirks, showing Jesus was “better known by her class as a profanity than a deity”.
We know that Messiah went to the nations when Israel went into the Diaspora in 70 AD. The Diaspora lasted 2000 years, while concurrently, Messiah took a bride among the gentiles lasting 2000 years as typified by the parable of the Woman At The Well, when Messiah spent 2 days with them as they worshipped on Mt Gerizim. This period of time was called the “time of the gentiles” and is a picture of His first coming.
When Yah brought the Kadosh land back into the hands of the Jews in 1948 and Israel became a nation again, the time of the gentiles ended and the focus reverted back onto Tyzion.
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
51 As the time approached for him to be taken up into heaven, he made his decision to set out for Yerushalayim. 52 He sent messengers ahead of him, who went and entered a village in Shomron to make preparations for him. 53 However, the people there would not let him stay, because his destination was Yerushalayim. 54 When the talmidim Ya‘akov and Yochanan saw this, they said, “Sir, do you want us to call down fire from heaven to destroy them?”[a] 55 But he turned and rebuked them.[b] 56 And they went on to another village.
This incident is representative of Messiah’s second return. Notice the outrage of those of Samaria (Ephraim-gentiles-Christian Church), whom He had spent 2 days (2000 years) with, because he had set his face on Yerushalayim. He sent messengers” to prepare His way” and they angrily threw rocks at them for the simple fact that “they (the gentiles-Mt Gerizim)” were not exclusively His destination. Notice that Messiah did not rebuke the gentiles (Samaritans), but rather passed by those who rejected Him (because of His destination), for others who would receive Him and His way.
We are currently in this time period of Messiah’s second coming. Just to be clear, This whole discussion is about restoring the foundations that were set in the beginning. Remember; “as it was in the beginning, so it shall be in the end”. Seventy years ago we would not have had these discussions, but now we are, given the closeness of His return.
Look now at the timing of the article above concerning the survey done by the Christian research group-the 1960s; about a decade after Israel became a nation again, and approximately seven years prior to Israel gaining control of Yerushalayim in 1967. When you lose the children-you lose the succeeding generations. This is not coincidence (not a kosher word). Messiah is in the process of reuniting Ephraim and Yahuda in eretz Yisrael, which is underway now and has been for a while. I mean no offense, but if we are His, then are we of Israel and Israel is His destination. It really doesn’t matter if the Christian church likes it or not. The same goes for the Orthodox Jews who refuse inclusion of the gentiles.
We are not talking about salvation in all of this. That is a red herring in all of this to divide and divert from what is really being said here. I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. Just trying to give some perspective on what is going on with all of this. Even as revelation knowledge was necessary for the Jews to understand what Messiah was doing in His first coming, so it will be necessary for the Christian church to have that same revelation knowledge to understand His second coming, without which you will be blind-sided and subsequently, passed by in His return.
P.S. This is not about the spelling of a name in Greek or Hebrew, but rather is symptomatic of that which Yah is doing in this day and time. It is about direction, attitude, understanding, and revelation of Messiah to “all” of His people in these last days, which will make Yisrael Echad! He is not making America the new Israel and is not changing eretz Yisrael into a Christian nation.
I will post this scripture once again;
Be Blessed my brothers
Al said this on March 5, 2013 at 6:27 pm | Reply
praying that the restoration begins soon…..
Marianne said this on March 5, 2013 at 8:03 pm | Reply
Amein to that!
Al said this on March 5, 2013 at 9:05 pm | Reply
I’m not sure who you are referring to concerning not being serious. I was totally serious. All I was saying is that I can do and say and feel the same things as you, using the name Jesus.
I don’t believe calling God by a specific name is a symptom of anything God is doing today. I actually believe it is a symptom of pride. I don’t mean to insult you, but your comments reveal that you see yourself as more respectful, more holy, more understanding, more acceptable to God than those who don’t use the Hebrew name of God. You have special revelation knowledge that the rest of us who use the name Jesus don’t. Am I correct?
Isaiah 58 is talking about the empty rituals, and the kind of worship and fasting most acceptable to God. The “church” today is sick, filled with empty ritual, hypocrisy, idolatry, much like the Pharisees of old. The “church” feigns worship on Sunday and then goes home and lives like the world the rest of the week. This is part of the apostasy, the falling away predicted by Paul.
I totally agree with what you are saying and I long for the restoration, but that restoration is not about saying the Name correctly. It’s not about not fasting. it’s about sacrifice for others. It’s not about worshiping on a certain day. It’s about worshiping every day. And it is about justice and mercy and love.
Isaiah 58:6-7 The kind of worship and fasting most acceptable to God.
Is this not the fast that I have chosen: to loose the bonds of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, to let the oppressed go free, and that you break every yoke? Is it not to share your bread with the hungry, and that you bring to your house the poor who are cast out; when you see the naked, that you cover him, and not hide yourself from your own flesh?
I’m not sure what you are referring to with this verse:
Remember; “as it was in the beginning, so it shall be in the end”.
If it’s a reference to the time of Noah, that was about wickedness and violence with the world completely unaware of the coming judgement (the apostasy). And I know many who call themselves the Church are sleeping, but it doesn’t mean everyone who is using the name Jesus is asleep.
As for the restoration of the fallen walls and the filling in of the breaches, Peter says that that began at Jesus’ first coming. Quoting from Amos, he said,
After these things I will turn back, and I will build again the tabernacle of David, that is fallen down, and its ruins I will build again, and will set it upright..
This is the raising of David’s seed, Jesus the Messiah, who would build on the ruins of his fallen tabernacle a spiritual and eternal kingdom. (And in these end times, we who are a spiritual kingdom will certainly be a remnant.)
Concerning this restoration and making Israel echad:
Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (which is done in the body by human hands)— remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
For he himself is our peace, who has made one new man out of the two, and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.
Many believe that the restoration is about returning to obedience to the Mosaic Law.
Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”
No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.” Why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? Peter wisely answered another objection. One might ask, ‘What is the harm in bringing Gentiles under the Law of Moses?’”
Peter was correct when he observed that the law was a yoke which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear. This is demonstrated by a look at Israel’s history. At the birth of the nation at Mount Sinai, they broke the law by worshipping the golden calf. At the end of Old Testament history, they still broke the law by disregarding the Sabbath and marrying pagan women. From beginning to end, Israel could not bear the yoke of the law.
The Church is the restored Tabernacle of David, built on the foundations of the Apostles and Prophets, with Christ Jesus as the chief Cornerstone. In His the whole building rises to become a holy Temple in the Lord.
Through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, not because we return to the old foundations of the Mosaic Law, but because we are both sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.
Jesus is returning to and for a remnant who lives by faith. And He know who are His own. That is you and me.
p.s. The reason Jesus Christ is used so often in profanity is because the world hates God. It’s not Christians who use His name profanely, but the God-hating world. They would use it profanely no matter what we would call him. And no, America is not the light of the world. That would the Jesus and His Church.
Todd Ott said this on March 6, 2013 at 2:26 am | Reply
I agree, I have heard the name Jesus used in healing people and it worked. So God knows and acknowledges the use of this “Jesus name” as well as “Yahshua”
Marianne said this on March 6, 2013 at 7:14 am | Reply
Well, I believe that the topic of discussion that was taking place between 4 Yah and myself, (and others), was the aspect that the Greek title for the Lord our Savior, (which is translated into English as Jesus Christ), is just as valid in the eye’s of God for Salvation, if confessed from a sincere heart as it would be in any other language.
(And as well that the “Cross” is symbolic of an “Altar”, and that IT was the true “Holy of Holies” where God Himself offered His Son as the Worthy Lamb sacrifice for the sins of the world. And that IT has not been morphed into a defiled object that could in anyway be associated with the “mark of the beast”.)
The above results of the survey that you posted are indeed a shame, however they could, (as Todd also states), be simply a portion of the prophesised “falling away”.
However I do respectively disagree with the statement that you made above where you say, “We know that Messiah went to the nations when Israel went into the Diaspora in 70 AD.” The Jewish Diaspora actually started in the 6th. century BCE. with the destruction of the first Temple (586 BCE) by the Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzar. And it is suspected through research, that Paul’s Conversion, (he that was commissioned to preach the Gospel to the gentiles, (Acts 9:15.- 13:46,47. etc.), did not occur until 33 or 34 A.D. Would not these historical facts then, possibly place a wrench in the time frame of your theory and following interpretation of Luke 9?
I also respectively disagree with what it is that you say next, “That Messiah took a bride among the gentiles” as well as when you say, “When Yah brought the Kadosh land back into the hands of the Jews in 1948 and Israel became a nation again, the time of the gentiles ended and the focus reverted back onto Tyzion.”
Clearly God the Father is able to multi-task and millions of Jews and gentiles have been drawn to to truth to become the bride of Mashiach since 1948.
Though at first the whole of Israel were God the Fathers chosen people, (and there are still unfulfilled promises and prophesies that are yet to be fulfilled with that corporate nation), would they still be considered to be the Fathers chosen today? Are not the “chosen” the “new creation” consisting of both Jew and gentile that have accepted His Son as their Savior? Romans 9 should answer that.
Regarding your interpretation of Luke 9:51 – 56.
I don’t believe that it is accurate to paint all gentiles with the same brush in respects to what happened in one particular city. If you happen to read on, Yeshua enters another city where He is received and appoints 70 to prepare His way. Also would it be correct to refer to the Samaritans as being Gentile?
Samaritans claim that their ancestral background comes from both Ephraim and Manasseh as well as having some descendants from the priestly tribe of Levi.
They do not derive their name from the geographical area they had lived in, but rather from the Hebrew “Shamerim שַמֶרִים – Keepers [of the Law]“.
Nonetheless, I am not sure if it is accurate to have them as a people, be representational to that of the Body of Messiah, nor do I happen agree personally with how you have utilized your time frame to derive your conclusion within your interpretation.
Again in Romans 9:6 – 8., Paul says.
“Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they [are] not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, [are they] all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these [are] not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.”
You and I have not always seen eye to eye in respects to our hermeneutics Al, but I love you just the same.
For though we both sincerely seek His Face and understanding, and believe solely in Yeshua for Salvation and atonement for our sins, “we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.” (1 Corinthians 13:12.) Amen.
Be Blessed in Yeshua.
Yehi shem Adonai mevorakh.
Accepted said this on March 7, 2013 at 12:10 am | Reply
Gregg & Todd,
I wasn’t planning on writing back, but you know how that is. I just want to make some general observations. I am not going to respond to the specific problems you had with what I wrote. In one way, we are heading in the same direction. Within that “way” though, we are worlds apart. I believe Gregg hit the nail on the head in all of this or at least the person who wrote the link that I am now going to refer to. I read the link that you posted concerning Mark Biltz and Last Trumpet on the Hebrew for Christians link. The following is an excerpt from that link:
“The root of their symptomatic heresies is hermeneutic (having to do with the methodology used to interpret scripture) in nature.”
The person who wrote this is referring to the Hebrew roots movement. I am not going to get into all the variations of beliefs that there are in the Messianic movement, and likewise I am not going to get into all the variations of beliefs that are in the Christian church. We have been in a countdown phase of history now for a number of years, anticipating the second return of Messiah Yahshua, within which many things are changing and the final restoration of all things is coming into view.
This is PaRDeS which explains how the Hebrews interpret scripture.
Peshat = Literal meaning; the contextual, philological level
• Remez = Allegorical meaning; cross-reference to other texts; rational or philosophical level
• Derash = Moral or homiletic meaning; aggadic level; midrashic [= interpretation via derash] level
• Sod = Mystical or anagogic meaning
Christian hermeneutics evolved out of PaRDeS which involves all of the above, but for the most part, those of the Christian Church primarily use the Peshat level:
“Literal – means that we take the words for what they mean in their normal, or plain sense.”
According to the author of the Hebrew for Christians link, whenever we get away from the literal (rudimentary) meaning and context of a certain scripture, people are left to their own thinking to bring out what they will. In other words, we need to be protected from such things. Messiah chose to speak in parables which had different levels of meaning embedded in them. If all we allow is the literal, what we come away with is a nice little Sunday School story that reminds us to be good Christians, which by the way is pretty much what we have today. It is a form of control by the Christian Chruch. Everyone should understand that these parables and other events in scripture, have a depth of meaning. The Hebrews understood this and Messiah openly said it:
“And He said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand” (Luke 8:10).
Deuteronomy 29:29 The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may follow all the words of this law.
Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a matter; to search out a matter is the glory of kings.
My point is this:
you might not like what is said and how it is said because someone is coloring outside of the lines that Christian theology has imposed on the understanding of scripture. It is their way or the highway. This is pretty much how it has been for at least 1700 years now. It is how we have come up with a theology that requires us to do “nothing” or we will be accused of earning salvation. How shallow do things have to get before we can see through these things?
Salvation and obedience go hand in hand (understanding that obedience refers to how we approach one another and Yah in love and also obeying His Word=Yahshua) to reach our goal of being what Yah has called us to be. You can get there without the obedience part (only Yah knows us on that level), but I think Messiah said that in doing so you would be called least in the Kingdom.
This is my specific point on your critique on what I wrote: I was not writing on the Peshat=literal level. I made that clear by the following statement in my post-
“This incident is ‘representative’ of Messiah’s second return.”
This was not written in the literal sense of the passage, but rather on a different level. But with that being said, your problem with my post was based on a strict literal interpretation. It is like the old saying of comparing apples to oranges. Each has its place, and is right and good in its proper context. We have to have the discernment to understand these things or we will always be at odds. You can invalidate what is being said and there is nothing I can do to make you see it. That is between we as individuals and Yah. I am honestly not trying to change anyone’s mind on any of this. Just writing what I believe I am lead to write. We plant but it is the Father who is responsible for the harvest.
I consider you both as brothers in Messiah and love you as such. I bear no hard feelings in any of this. There will not be Jew or Christian in the near future, just those who hold fast to Messiah (Salvation) and Walk in obedience to His Word (Set -Apart)=Yisrael!
Be Blessed in Messiah Yahshua
Al said this on March 16, 2013 at 4:02 pm | Reply
Sorry, I actually have no idea what point you are trying to make. My entire point was about your false belief that using the “correct” name of God is the mark of a true, sincere, dedicated Christian. My problem with your post had nothing to do with the strict literal interpretation of scripture. My problem with that post, and this one was your assumption that, because we don’t use God’s “proper” name, we’re insincere and disrespectful, and that we have no discernment, but you do, and unless we agree with you we will be at odds.
I saw the true meaning behind the passage you gave. I know about the different levels of interpretation. I use them myself, except for Sod. (For example, when the daughter of Herodius convinced Herod to behead John the Baptist, I see it as a type and shadow of the Whore of Babylon convincing the Antichrist to behead Elijah, one of the Two Witnesses. The Gospels are full of peshat and pesher. )
But your true meaning was irrelevant. Nowhere in that Samaritan incident is there any hint that it has anything to do with using God’s correct name, specifically. What it has to do with is the general falling away, the end times apostasy of the Church, seen in the Word Faith movement, the Purpose Driven Church, and much of the Hebrew Roots Movement (those that insist we must follow the Mosaic Law), the Emergent Church, and in churches where the Word of God is twisted and watered down and ignored and abused. It’s about a Church so in love with worldly things, that they can’t stand the thought of Jesus returning to destroy it all. These are contrasted with those who love His appearing (II Timothy 4:8). Using God’s “incorrect” name is not a symptom of this falling away.
And nowhere did I even hint that Christians are required to do “nothing.” On the contrary, we are to be perfect, as out heavenly Father is perfect. We are to be holy, set apart, different from the world, for without holiness, no one will see God. We are to put off the “old man” and put on Christ. We are commanded to love our neighbor, and in fact love for God is shown in how we love others. We are saved by faith, but obedience is evidence of that faith.
I have no idea why you think we would think you bear hard feelings. We are having an adult discussion. But you not “planning on writing back” seems very childish. And please tell me exactly what I am invalidating, because you don’t seem to really have a definite point. (Did I miss something in the initial writings between you and Gregg, which I didn’t read?) I don’t know if you’re in the Hebrew Roots Movement or whether you believe obeying the Mosaic Law is required. What exactly are you trying to make us “see?” (Please answer the question in one or two sentences).
Here’s a story Jesus told about a certain Samaritan:
On one occasion an expert in the law stood up to test Jesus. “Teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
“What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”
He answered, “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind’; and, ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’”
“You have answered correctly,” Jesus replied. “Do this and you will live.”
But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”
In reply Jesus said: “A man (Adam, mankind) was going down from Jerusalem (heavenly city, Garden of Eden) to Jericho (earthly city, Adam kicked out of Garden, the Fall) when he was attacked by robbers (Satan, the thief and murderer, and his demons.) They stripped him of his clothes (robes of righteousness), beat him and went away, leaving him half dead (physically alive, spiritually dead.) A priest (representative of religion) happened to be going down the same road (religion also leads to “Jericho”), and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. So too, a Levite (representative of the Mosaic Law) when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side (the Law also brings death, not life) . But a Samaritan (Jesus) as he traveled, came where the man was (the Incarnation); and when he saw him, he took pity on him. He went to him and bandaged his wounds (consequences of sin), pouring on oil (cleansing of the Holy Spirit) and wine (forgiveness by the blood of Jesus). Then he put the man on his own donkey (he carries our burdens), brought him to an inn (the Church) and took care of him. The next day he took out two denarii (two “days” wages, gifts of the Spirit during the Church Age, 2000 years) and gave them to the innkeeper (the Holy Spirit) . ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return (Second Coming), I will reimburse you for any extra expense (our rewards for obedience) you may have.’
“Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”
The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.”
Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.”
Todd Ott said this on March 16, 2013 at 10:46 pm | Reply
Read the first link below. I agree with you on “Sod”.
dru said this on March 16, 2013 at 11:48 pm | Reply
I believe that Al is referring to these links, (that I posted on another thread from the “Now the End Begins” website), which I believe that he mistook as being authored by “Hebrew 4 Christians”. Have a read so that you can respond if you like.
Al…. I’ll try to get back to you within the next few days with a response.
Be Blessed in Yeshua our Most Holy and Sufficient Everything.
If part 2 doesn’t load, it can be accessed and the bottom of part 1.
Accepted said this on March 17, 2013 at 5:43 am | Reply
Forgive me brother for mistakenly putting your name on the post that was meant for Gregg. It seems to have ruffled you and for that I apologize.
Al said this on March 17, 2013 at 1:14 pm | Reply
That’s ok. It just confused me, because I had no idea what you were talking about. I tried to look through the posts to find out what it was all about, but couldn’t find anything.
Todd Ott said this on March 17, 2013 at 2:58 pm | Reply
Al, and others.
Please take the time to read the following: The first link is on the topics Al mentioned above. The second is the salvation page from that site. Perhaps the best explanation of salvation and assurance thereof that I have read on the internet.
dru said this on March 16, 2013 at 11:44 pm | Reply
I remember reading about Schneerson and the Lubavitchers back in the early 90s, but had forgotten about it. I remember they believed that he would rise from the dead. Interesting.
About the “sound” that people everywhere are supposed to hear before the appearance of Maitreya, have you heard about the sounds that people have been hearing in the sky? Go to youtube and search “sounds from the sky.”
Todd Ott said this on March 17, 2013 at 12:34 am | Reply
I believe Marianne has a post on some trumpet sounds or something like that? I will look for it for you.
dru said this on March 17, 2013 at 2:29 am | Reply
Marianne said this on March 17, 2013 at 3:53 am | Reply
Oh well, The search on her site is not that good, Marianne might remember?
dru said this on March 17, 2013 at 2:35 am | Reply
Thank you. I did find it on you tube.
Todd Ott said this on March 18, 2013 at 7:47 am | Reply
Hi Al, (and Todd, if you would please read this also so you will have a better understanding as to what has transpired).
Lets take a look here at as to how this topic of discussion has evolved.
Originally the topic of discussion that was taking place between 4 Yahshua and myself, (and others), was the aspect that the Greek title for the Lord our Savior, (which is translated into English as Jesus Christ), is just as valid in the eye’s of God for Salvation, if confessed from a sincere heart as it would be in any other language.
And as well that the “Cross” is symbolic of an “Altar”, and that IT was the true “Holy of Holies” where God Himself offered His Son as the Worthy Lamb sacrifice for the sins of the world. And that IT has not been morphed into a defiled object that could in anyway be associated with the “mark of the beast”.
Then on February 25th. @ 8:35 pm. you made your first post regarding this specific topic, with one that more than appeared to be sympathizing and supportive to that of 4 Yahshua’s position. Stating that, “I understand what 4 Yahshua is saying. Once I found what Messiah’s given name was in Hebrew, I could no longer use the name jesus. I tried when speaking with my Christian brothers and sisters, but realized I couldn’t do it any longer.”
(I did notice above, that you didn’t capitalize “Jesus”, though you did consciously choose to capitalize “Messiah”, “Hebrew” and “Christian”. That is just an observation and not to be taken as condemnation.)
I then replied to you on that same date @ 8:46 pm. with a link from Hebrew 4 Christians where John expresses his opinion regarding the topic of discussion.
You then reply to that/my particular post @ 9:12 pm. and state, “I understand what is being said here and everyone needs to be persuaded in their own minds according to what we understand to be the truth, which as everyone knows, varies greatly. The bottom line is, words and names have meanings. If a person chooses that which appeals to them phonetically or because it’s meaning is based in Greek or Hebrew, or some other language, then so be it. We do not stand or fall to man, but rather to Yah. I believe we are to do things with a pure conscience to that which we know (understand) to be true unto our Father.”
You then provide another link in which its content, is first supportive to that of Marianne’s, Todd’s and myself, then offers a opposing point of view as well.
I then respond to your post, @ 10:20 pm. by saying within it, “Another link? Man I have been out all day and haven’t had the chance to read the first one in its entirety yet? lol. I will read and consider your links, I hope that you will do the same.
I do agree with you regarding our hearts and conscience above though. The Father knows full well whether we are pure and sincere in our techinah.”
Then from there, the topic of discussion continues between 4 Yahshua, Marianne and myself, until March 2 @ 10:25 am., where Todd then makes a post with a rebuttal to 4 Yahshua regarding “God”, “oil” and the “Song of Solomon”.
During this time, you return on February 27th. @ 8:16 pm. with a post addressed specifically to me.
Though in the way that it is worded it may initially appear to be still on topic, it is during this post that the topic of discussion actually makes a shift, and an entirely new topic, (though an old one here), now appears to be presented again.
Though Todd, (in not knowing you and your beliefs like I do), may not have picked up on where you were heading, I believe that I understood the path that you were taking by the statements that you made within that post, such as, “It is rather the false notion that has been promoted in christianity that to do anything, even as a matter of honor and respect for His name, is to somehow be seen as trying to earn salvation.”, and “But in our current time where nothing is specifically required of us, because lifting your finger to do anything is seen as working for your salvation”.
The following day, (February 28th @ 12:49 am.), I responded with a reply that took into account, the other possible topic that was brought up, without broaching on the topic that I believed that you now introducing again.
On March 1st. @ 7:46 pm. you replied with a rather confusing post, where you question as to why the translated Jesus Christ is used in vain and as profanity so regularly? In which neither Todd, (on March 2nd. @ 10:56 am.), nor myself, (on March 3rd. @ 1:02 am.), appeared to provide you with a satisfactory answer?
Then on March 5th. @ 6:27 pm. you reply with a post addressed to both Todd and myself.
In that post, (by how you start off in it), you seem to be frustrated in not receiving the response (s) that you had been hoping for and state, “This will be my last post on this discussion, unless someone has a “serious” comment or question.”
You then “paste” the results of a research conducted by a Christian group, (National Church Life Survey), regarding the Name of Jesus Christ, in which it is their position that this is the consequence, and result of what had taken place due to the Baby-Boomers of the 60’s. You then go into a brand new topic which appears to be not associated whatsoever, to the posting of the survey, but that of your understanding, and your interpretation, of the time frames regarding the Disporsia and there connection to the Samaritans, and utilized Luke 9:51-56. as being supportive scripture to substantiate your position based upon your interpretation of those passages.
And though I had previously stated above within our shared posts, “That the topic of discussion that was taking place between 4 Yah and myself, (and others), was the aspect that the Greek title for the Lord our Savior, (which is translated into English as Jesus Christ), is just as valid in the eye’s of God for Salvation, if confessed from a sincere heart as it would be in any other language. And as well that the “Cross” is symbolic of an “Altar”, and that IT was the true “Holy of Holies” where God Himself offered His Son as the Worthy Lamb sacrifice for the sins of the world. And that IT has not been morphed into a defiled object that could in anyway be associated with the “mark of the beast”……
You now state, “This whole discussion is about restoring the foundations that were set in the beginning. Remember; “as it was in the beginning, so it shall be in the end”. (???)
You then apparently attempt to tie together the two trains of thought, (regarding the survey and your interpretation), by proposing how the time frame of this study correlates with Israel’s regaining the city of Jerusalem.
Todd replies to this last post on March 6th. @ 2:26 am.
I reply on March on March 7th. @ 2:10 am. as best as I could, not completely understanding the point that you were trying to make. (?)
On March 16th. @ 4:02 pm., you finally respond.
Within that post, (addressed to both Todd and myself), you now address what you had eluded to before within your post of, February 27th. @ 8:16 pm., (those two statements that you made,“It is rather the false notion that has been promoted in christianity that to do anything, even as a matter of honor and respect for His name, is to somehow be seen as trying to earn salvation.”, and “But in our current time where nothing is specifically required of us, because lifting your finger to do anything is seen as working for your salvation.”) which in your belief is regarding the Mosaic law.
You say, “I read the link that you posted concerning Mark Biltz and Last Trumpet.” (Which I have posted here, (above) address to Todd, for his convenience, and for any others to read.)
Now, we have gone down this particular road many times before and have agreed to disagree. I have also stated in the past, that I will not be goaded into participating within this topic of discussion, or anything regarding this particular subject again, stating that, “As far as I’m concerned the conclusion that was reached between all of the Apostles, Elders, brethren, and that of the Holy Spirit in Acts 15:23-29., is more than sufficient for me, and I therefore live by Faith. Peter himself says in Acts 15:10., “Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?”
I will ask you this though Al, … in utilizing Remez , (Allegorical meaning; cross-reference to other texts; rational or philosophical level). within your own hermeneutics, haven’t you ever being curious as to why the “falling away” that was translated from the transliterated Greek “apostasia” in 2 Thessalonians 2:3., is only utilized one other time within the entirety of New Testament Scripture within Acts 21:21. where it is utilized and in reference to the Mosaic law?
You yourself say that coincidence is not a kosher word, and I myself am more than aware that there is no Hebrew word for coincidence.
Or haven’t you ever noticed that in Yeshua’s epistles to the seven churches in the book of Revelation that He mentions nothing regarding the Mosaic law?
And as well, haven’t you ever noticed that in Matthew 25: 31-46. (the sheep and goat judgement), there is nothing other than “demonstrating love to others” as He has loved us, is the ONLY thing that He utilizes to justify and to distinguish the separation between to two?
Above in your last post you say, “It is how we have come up with a theology that requires us to do “nothing” or we will be accused of earning salvation. How shallow do things have to get before we can see through these things?”
Well I don’t believe that we do “nothing”. Those that walk with Yeshua have plenty on their plate to do, (contrary to what you have said above), we are to “love and serve others as He loved and served us, (John 13:34. & 15:12. and 1 Corinthians 13:2- 13.), and maintain our obedience in being Faithful by abstaining from all appearance of evil, (1 Thessalonians 5:22.), which would consist of, “being unrighteous”, (injustice regarding our integrity and heart in life), practicing “sexual immorality, fornication”, (illicit sexual intercourse, adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc., intercourse with close relatives; (Lev. 18.) or with a divorced man or woman; (Mk. 10:11,12.) Or as a metaphor, the worship of idols, of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols), “wickedness”, (depravity, iniquity, malice, evil desires.), “covetousness”, (a greedy desire to have more, avarice.), “maliciousness”, (malignity, ill-will and the desire to injure others.), “being envious”, “a murderer”, “being full of contention and strife.”, “being deceitful, deceiving others”, “having a bad character and depravity of the heart”, “being a slanderer, and back biter.”
And the above is just Romans 1:29.!
(I don’t know about you, (because I believe that you are married, so to do so would be contrary to Scripture), but you try being celibate for like 20 years. Oy-Vey! lol.)
Let me tell you from personal experience…. that is Not Nothing! Does it add to my Salvation? “Nope”, I believe that Yeshua accomplished everything that was required to do that. But does the following of all of the above out of my gratefulness and love for that gift make me obedient? “Yep” I believe so.
And I still believe, (as you say above yourself, “you might not like what is said, or how it is said”), but that following the Mosaic law is detracting from the Lord Yeshua’s Fulness, Glory and the Sufficiency of His Grace, rather than Honouring Him for Who He is as our KING of kings.
Any way’s, I’ve said my piece.
To all be Blessed in Yeshua our Most Holy and more than Sufficient Everything.
Accepted said this on March 18, 2013 at 2:31 am | Reply
And thank you for the explanation. It is much more difficult to obey Jesus’ law of love than it is to obey the ten commandments. It is definately NOT nothing!
Todd Ott said this on March 18, 2013 at 7:46 am | Reply
this convinces me that I cannot really follow this conversation.
I am glad you can.
Marianne said this on March 18, 2013 at 10:16 am | Reply
“Nuff said” Amein-so be it
Al said this on March 19, 2013 at 1:09 pm | Reply
Please know that the above was said in “love”, for I still consider you to be my brother in Yeshua. It is just that we differ on this particular subject.
You have a deep concern because I and others don’t see things as you happen to see them. In turn, I and others have a great concern for those that don’t see things as we do too.
When answering Paul and his prayers in 2 Corinthians 12:9., (regarding being harassed by an angel of satan), Yeshua responds with, “My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness.”
Sufficient, (from the Greek “ἀρκέω”, transliterated as “arkeō”), means to be possessed of unfailing strength, to be strong, to suffice, to be enough.
I believe that “Yeshua’s Grace” is all encompassing, and not limited specifically to Paul’s particular problem there.
Yeshua also says in John 15:4. “Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.”
Abide derived from the Greek “μένω”, transliterated as “menō”, means, “Not to depart” and has also been translated as, “remain, dwell, continue etc.”, and He makes no mention of the Mosaic law whatsoever.
Any way’s, I just wanted you to know that none of the above was meant to be offensive towards you in any way.
Be Blessed in Yeshua Melech Malchei HaMelachim.
Accepted said this on March 20, 2013 at 12:27 am | Reply
Hey Brother Gregg,
I am not offended, just a little frustrated. But that is okay. I know that a “basically” Christian website is a hard place to be, with the message I have, but that is why I am here and other places. Marianne has produced a great place where people of varying beliefs can come and discuss things openly. Hats off to you Marianne!! In the course of things we sometimes will take shots and snipe at each other, but I think most of us realize, at least for the most part, that it is just the topics that we discuss and the passion we put into it.
I really do respect you and most of the others here. Whether we agree or not is really not the point. I know that not many and possibly none, are going to listen to what I have to say and have an awakening concerning these things. But that is okay. It is still early for this to be widely “accepted” (no pun intended). But the time is coming when there will be those who will remember certain things about what has been said, when the timing is right, and it will all make perfect sense and understanding will come. It is not about instant gratification, that is for sure. It is definitely delayed. It is more about being about the Father’s business. I know that probably doesn’t make any sense to you now and you would likely disagree with it, but that is also okay. The thing is, we are brothers in Messiah and that is what counts. Some of our beliefs and doctrines are at opposite ends of the spectrum, but all of us will survive that.
I appreciate you writing back, Thanks!
Love ya as a brother in Messiah
Al said this on March 20, 2013 at 7:06 pm | Reply
You are a welcome contributor here.
No one is right all the time except God. !!
Marianne said this on March 20, 2013 at 8:06 pm | Reply
You’re welcome bro.
It is sometimes difficult, (not being able to see the person smiling, or the inflection of their voice), to understand where they are coming from on a blog, so I thought that I’d reassure you within that last post.
I have difficulty myself though with the actual terminology, “Christian”, (which of course was termed first by the Hellenists of Pisidia in Antioch, and the fact that God the Father chose to have the B’rit Chadashah written in Greek). But due to the many atrocities that have been committed throughout the ages by so called Christians, I am hesitant sometimes to accept that designation. Though I do so, it is more because of the common understanding in society as to what that term means, however, if given the opportunity, I attempt to explain that I consider myself more to be Messianic than anything. That Yeshua is the Fulfillment of all that has been promised by God the Father from the very beginning.
I also understand the frustration that you experience with what you believe to be true, for I experience exactly the same frustration, with a belief that is at the opposite end of the spectrum to yours. (Go figure eh? Same Father, Same Savior, and Same Spirit, yet totally polar opposite beliefs.) Oy-Vey.
Here is something to ponder over though before we speak again. Before “Christianity” became the norm, why did all of the Apostle’s and disciples refer to themselves as being members of “the Way”? Of course this could simply be due to their reverence of Yeshua, and in reference to what He said that is recorded in John 14:6.
“The Way”, is translated from the Greek “ὁδός”, or “hodos”, and is primarily defined as being, “Properly”. And in Hebrew, (which I believe is what they would have used), it would be “דֶּרֶךְ” or “derekh”, which would mean, “the way, road, journey or manner”.
But the very fact that they referred themselves as this “Way”, definitely suggests to me, that there was something about the old way, that was either not necessary at all, nor was it sufficient, nor was it the proper manner to journey anymore.
Take Care Al.
Yehi shem Yeshua mevorakh
Accepted said this on March 21, 2013 at 12:07 am | Reply
Just to clarify that last point that I was trying to make there above……
I find it rather strange that all of Yeshua’s first and True Disciples didn’t simply call themselves, “The Continuation”?
Be Blessed in Yeshua our Most Holy and Sufficient Everything.
Accepted said this on March 21, 2013 at 5:26 pm | Reply
Paul said we are to stand fast and hold to the traditions of the apostles. I see a lot of people today claiming to have some new revelation from God that no one else has. It’s amazing how many websites are popping up, telling us that if we don’t return to and obey the Old Covenant we will suffer God’s wrath. Sometimes I wonder if many of these teachings are what Paul warned about in the last days.
Most of these people get angry and “go out from among us,” if we don’t accept their teachings, which to me is a sign. As followers of Jesus, we have an infinite number of topics that we can talk about and discuss and debate. But some people get hung up on one thing (Sabbath, Sacred Name, etc) and they lose sight of what’s important – Christ and Him crucified. Their whole theology becomes clouded by that one thing, and everything they see somehow becomes proof of what they believe. The entire biblical text is twisted in an effort to prove what they say is true (for example, the oil in the Parable of the 10 Virgins being God’s name because Solomon said that God’s name has a sweet odor like oil being poured out.)
I think the whole thing is an issue of pride, being unable to accept that we are saved by grace through faith. People want to do something to make themselves accepted to God. The result is condemnation towards those who don’t do that “something.”
Jesus made “one new man out of the two,” not by subjecting the Gentiles to the impossible burden of the Mosaic Law, but by giving both Jew and Gentile a New Law. It’s a law where boasting (pride) is excluded.
And I also am embarrassed to be associated with the term
“Christian.” I consider myself a Jesus follower (which means I am a
follower of The Way.)
Todd Ott said this on March 21, 2013 at 6:22 pm | Reply
i am not a legalist, but I think we can love jesus, give our lives to him, and still try to obey God the best we can.
Marianne said this on March 21, 2013 at 10:30 pm | Reply
Hope all is well with you. I found this video of a Karaite Jew yesterday. You might not know what that means, but if not, it is explained fully in the video and I also included information for him from Wikipedia. He does not believe that Yahshua is the Son of Yah, so don’t let the title of the video keep you from watching it. It is extremely interesting and engaging, but it is 2 hours long. Well worth the time though, if you are willing to invest it. After all, I do think there are those of us who are still seeking for truth and not just trying to press an agenda, based solely on the fact that we are partial to one version or the other, which is predicated in large part due to the traditions that have been handed down to us from our forefathers. But regardless of all that, it is a scholarly discussion, rather than a religious one, trying to bring understanding of certain things based on fact.
Al said this on March 23, 2013 at 2:33 pm | Reply
When I have the time later on tonight, I will try to watch this in its entirety.
However, within just the first 2 minutes, (while he was in the process of dissecting Matthew 23:2,3.), I foresaw an apparent problem.
Of course Yeshua would have charged the people to follow the law of Moses, and what the Sadducees and Pharisees taught, for the law was still in effect, (as was the Old Testament), because Yeshua was still alive. It was only after His death that the New and Better Covenant came into effect and was established.
Hebrews 9:11-28., with specific emphasis of verses 16 and 17.
Any way’s I’ll comment further, after I have watched it all later.
Be Blessed in the Fulness and the Entirely Sufficient Grace of Yeshua.
The Rock of our foundation.
Accepted said this on March 23, 2013 at 5:23 pm | Reply
Okay I found the time to watch that video in its entirety, and actually found it to be very informative and enjoyable.
And if I were of Jewish decent, (and did not believe that Yeshua was the Messiah), I would be a Karaite myself, relying solely upon the Word of Y’Hoveh as opposed to the “takanot or ma’asim” of men, (which is what I do now, as a follower of Yeshua).
I initially found it rather amusing that you chose to have someone who does not possess the Holy Spirit to perhaps substantiate your view point, but as I said, I did find it informative and enjoyable and well worth the time.
Now though, I have a decision to make…. “Do I participate within a discussion on this topic one more time, or simply say to you again, “Al, believe what you want to believe?”
Give me a couple of days to decide,(maybe a week).
Keep a “lookout” on this thread if you haven’t already clicked any of the “follow” buttons.
Be Blessed in Yeshua HaMashiach our Most Precious and Holy Savior.
Accepted said this on March 25, 2013 at 6:08 am | Reply
No need to write back on anything. I don’t think I illicited a response by posing any kind of question concerning any of this. You are the one that is into definitions and words in the Hebrew and Greek languages. I thought you would find it interesting, given the nature of the discussion. I chose this for the fact that he is “not” a believer in Messiah, but is more than qualified to speak on the subject (you know, that pesky unbiased thing). I alluded as much when I sent this to you. “If” we have privotal errors in the translations, then are we all in trouble. I don’t think either of us have the acumen to critique his work. I might be wrong about you with that, but I know that I don’t. So, there is really nothing to discuss. All Nehemiah Gordon does, is expose the fact, that what we consider to be the inerrancy of the scriptures, cannot be automatically attributed to all of the different translations that all of us so fondly ascribe to. The original manuscripts are not in dispute, which is where the inerrancy of scripture is foundational. It is my understanding that some of what we have now are translations of translations, up to 5 times removed, ordered by Gentile pagan kings and rulers, while destroying most of the original manuscripts (how convenient).
So, by your statement of my choosing someone who does not possess the Holy Spirit to substantiate my view point, I take it that you have more trust in the likes of Emperor Constantine and King James to be overflowing with the Holy Spirit and totally unbiased in all of this, since the Christian Church still functions in their shadow! By the way, that is a statement and not a question, so, no response is needed on that either.
Take Care my brother!
Al said this on March 25, 2013 at 5:46 pm | Reply
Al said this on March 26, 2013 at 1:59 pm | Reply
Bottom of the thread please.
Accepted said this on March 26, 2013 at 6:22 pm | Reply
Chemical weapons being used in Syria confirmed.
dru said this on March 19, 2013 at 2:15 pm | Reply
Would take the NYTimes with a grain of salt. This WMD, chemical line is an excuse for USA to get involved in SYRIA on the side the REBELS. BIG mistake. The rebel factions are agents of SUNNI CALIPHATE vs ASSAD, backed by SHIITE Iran, RUSSIA & CHINA who dont want a resurgent OTTOMAN EMPIRE to deal with. The USA is is secrettly aiding Turkey through the obsolete NATO alliance. Amb Stevens(Benghazi) was more than likely “OFFED” for knowing too much, he was coordinating Secret arms shipments from Lybia into SYRIA. The USA has been chasing these same Chemical weapons since 1991(first Iraq or Gulf War). The SYRIAN Civil war is essentually a contest between ANKARA & TEHERAN as to who will be the ISLAMIC big dog! reminiscent of the 1936-40 Spanish Civil War in which the world powers PRACTICED for the BIG SHOW…….The Second round or WW2. To bad the USA leadership does not have a Clue……….they are stupid enough to bungle into WW3.
wyatt said this on March 27, 2013 at 11:18 am | Reply
I placed the article to inform people. I agree the NY times is the propaganda arm of the current administration, and has not done “real journalism” in quite some time. The Ultimate goal is to get Israel embroiled in a middle eastern conflict with the shiites, thereby making the Sunni’s the majority. Isaiah 17:1 says what will occur in damascus, what it does not say is who will be responsible for this, but this will likely be a trigger for war, or a result of the war.
dru said this on March 27, 2013 at 12:18 pm | Reply
The Sunni’s acount for 75% of Muslims world wide. Point being the USA’s incescent WHINNING about WMDs ……has preceeded every military action since 1991( 1st IRAQ) ……So Damb Insanes stock piles were moved to Syria in the 1990,s. Fact is CHEMICAL WEAPONS are essentially another RED HERRING…..ineffective , indescriminate …..and just as deadly to freindly forces! That is why no nation has employed chemical weapons, on a massive scale since WW1. HITLER & STALIN both refused to deploy their stock piles during WW2. Japan was the only Beligerent nation to employ Chemical weapons during WW2 on a limited basis for experimentation, and only in CHINA. The only mass casualty Chemical incident in the European theater took place at the ITALIAN port of BARI in Dec 1943, when German bombers took out a US Liberty Ship filled with SARIN GAS munitions. The USA & Britain attempted to blame Germany for a Chemical Raid, in a futile CYA effort.
wyatt said this on April 9, 2013 at 2:05 pm | Reply
Are You saying they would never use them if they had them. And what about the Iran/Iraq war…Just propaganda? Hitler did Gas the jewish people..Primarily Cyanide. This is a chemical weapon.
I know that there ar “False flags”, “red herrings” and what have you, but sometimes there are also real threats. Have You read Albert Pike’s (the freemason) Letter predicting World wars? I am not sure how authentic it is, But the first Goal of WWIII is to have Israel and Islam annailate each other. Will it be a “red Herring” that sets off this war, or an actual real threat, is inconsequential.
You are right about the sunni’s being the Majority. The shiites are the Pawns though, and will be led to slaughter first. Sharia Law, and the Caliphate are the primary Goal. Secular governments must be dissolved in order for this to happen. Then the mahdi/dragon can take his seat.
dru said this on April 9, 2013 at 5:36 pm | Reply
I’m not sure as to how long you have actually been here on this site, (whether or not you were here, when I suspect that many), may have believed that I had perhaps, “Popped my Top”, or “Gone off of the Deep End”? And I don’t necessarily blame those individuals for having that opinion either, (lol), having had the opportunity to read all of what I had posted during that time.
But last year at this time, on March 15th. 2012 I had my 40th. anniversary of being born again, and I wasn’t expecting anything out of the ordinary to occur at all, (though in the past there have been some significant supernatural occurrences that have taken place).
Any way’s on April 17th. I felt the presence of the Lord ask me to start a fast. (Prior to this I had never fasted before once.)
So having started this fast, I started to have Visions each night consecutively for the next 7 days, with the last Vision being on April 23rd. 2012, which just happened to be, 40 days after my 40th. year anniversary.
This last vision was of the text of Revelation 1:3. as recorded in the King James Version with the last 5 words, “THE TIME IS AT HAND” vibrating and shimmering and in larger type, and that while looking at these words, I then heard and audible Voice proclaim them out loud with authority. (which I don’t mind saying at all, totally freaked me out!) And if one were to delve into the etymology of the original Greek and its root word definitions, those last five (5) words could be easily translated and defined as meaning, “For the time when things are brought to a crisis, and the decisive epoch that those that are close to God have waited for is now.”
Now, this fast ended up lasting for a total of 40 days, (which consequently happened to leave me exactly 40 lbs. lighter to boot) but what is significant here is this, the fast itself culminated on Shavu’ot, (Pentecost), and that during this fast I understood that the “gathering or rapture” would take place on that date.
I had previously thought and believed that it would take place on Yom Teru’ah, (Feast of Shofars), but now during that time I was fasting, I was confident that it was going to definitely be on the last Shavu’ot, and was amazed and totally confused when it didn’t occur. However, simply because it didn’t occur on the last one, does not mean that it won’t happen or occur on one in the future.
Any way’s, my point is after experiencing the above, you certainly don’t have to try to convince me at all, that the “end times”, is either here and now, or just right around the corner. Though others here would disagree regarding the time frame, and believe that we are in the middle of the tribulation as we speak, I personally happen to believe that what is happening over in Israel right now, (with all of the Presidential hubbub), is the “Commencement” of Daniels 70th week.
We will have to wait and see?
What I have come to understand over this last year though, is simply this, “Trust in God the Father as the Sovereign King!”
Keep looking up Todd, for our redemption draws near.
Be Blessed in Yeshua HaMashiach our Most Holy KING of kings and LORD of lords.
Accepted said this on March 21, 2013 at 7:26 pm | Reply
I had my 40 anniversary this year also!
Be blessed also.
Todd Ott said this on March 21, 2013 at 9:40 pm | Reply
oh how nice…!
Marianne said this on March 21, 2013 at 9:53 pm | Reply
You might have gotten the feast day itself mixed up with the year. The rapture could very well occur on that feast day.
Marianne said this on March 21, 2013 at 10:13 pm | Reply
Well obviously I messed up on the year.
But that was due to the “imminency” that was associated to the Vision itself.
However, I agree on the Feast Day of Shavu’ot as being more than a possibility.
I have uncovered such a vast amount of information in respects to that day, that it boggles the mind.
(Much of what I tried to relay to you and others, (without much success), last year). lol.
Father God only knows for sure though, and I Trust in Him and His Glorious Son our Savior explicitly.
Be Blessed in Yeshua Melech Malchei HaMelachim.
(The KING of Kings of kings)
Accepted said this on March 21, 2013 at 10:55 pm | Reply
Though you stated that a response from me was not required, you know me well enough, (I think), to realize that one would be forthcoming anyway. lol.
Nope, I am certainly not linguistically qualified to critique Nehemiah’s findings regarding the Book of Matthew.
However it appears that he has only fully studied that first book, rather than come to his conclusion by including the fulness of what is contained within the other 26.
(And if that is his intention to do so in the future, then I wouldn’t be surprised if God the Father isn’t in the process of leading him to the truth of Yeshua and adding another child to His flock. Amen.) But he didn’t offer up any comment regarding Acts 15:20-29., or Acts 21:25., where Luke reconfirms what the Holy Spirit and all of the Apostles, elders and brethren had decided what it was that was necessary for Gentiles to do. And personally being a Gentile, I am just fine with following that directive.
Regarding translations of Scripture and their possible inaccuracies.
Though I for the most part read the King James, I have been aware of this for years, (since Tyndale and the King James was translated primarily from the Textus Receptus, which was translated by Erasmus, who utilized Jerome’s Latin Vulgate to do so). So I have therefore utilized concordances, lexicons, and the original Greek New Testament text, (as well as the Tanakh), in the course of my studies regarding the New Testament with the hopes of being more accurate.
I might also add, that I did find it refreshing as to how, (in being a Karaite), Nehemiah exposed the “idolatrous” aspects of Judaism, (I utilized the word “idolatrous” there, because, with “pagan” being derived from Latin, and taking into consideration that there is no word for “pagan or paganism” in either Hebrew or Greek, it seemed the most appropriate.)
We who would be considered to be Protestants within the realm of Christendom today, have heaped upon the Catholic church condemnation for years as having been the ones that corrupted the true meaning of our Faith by adding and subtracting from God the Fathers Word. However, it is obvious that this practice of corruption has been transpiring for hundreds of years before Yeshua stepped foot on the earth with the inclusion of the traditions of men. And many denominations today, are simply guilty of doing the same.
Any way’s, I don’t have all answers Al, I wish I did.
How I see it is that Yeshua appeared to only address the Ten Commandments in His ministry, (Matthew 5. and Matthew 19:18., etc.) and by what He says in 19:17., prior to mentioning these specific commandments, is that “they” are necessary to enter into eternal life. These commandments can be fulfilled by loving others as He loved us, and how you would love yourself and wish that you in turn were treated. Therefore, I attempt to the best of my ability to not quench the Spirit and live that way as a disciple of His.
I believe that it has everything to do with our heart, and Yeshua will be a righteous judge of that, (Matthew 7:23. & Matthew 25:12.).
Be Blessed in Yeshua Al.
Accepted said this on March 26, 2013 at 6:23 pm | Reply
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