616, not 666 ?

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The Oxyrhynchus Papyrus is the oldest known copy of the Book of Revelation.

Close examination of this fragment indicates the mark of the beast is 616, not 666.

With all the theories out there about who the Antichrist is, I wonder how this affects those theories.

Is this interpretation of this ancient fragment correct?

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Sources # 1

http://www.wedg.millenniumweekend.org/forum/showthread.php?t=30166

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/nov2009/olivert1114.htm

Excerpt:

Rather than interpreting the mark of the beast found in Revelation 13:18 as either Greek or Aramaic, consider the possibility that the mark was passed down from an even more remote time in the form of Proto-Sinaitic script, the original Hebrew alphabet.

By interpreting these as ancient Hebrew letters [ie, not Greek] we discover a complete message that gives a clear and unmistakable warning.


Each letter in the ancient Hebrew Proto-Sinaitic alphabet had a distinctive meaning; they not only gave a phonic sound to construct words, but also contained a conceptual meaning found in the symbol itself.

This part of the text has traditionally been interpreted as “666”, but in the original text we see it says “616” in Greek letters.

In the Oxyrhynchus Papyrus the symbols are similar to our letters X, I, and C, and if interpreted as Greek letters they give an ambiguous number, leading to endless speculation.

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We need to find out what the symbols X, I, and C mean.

In the ancient Hebrew these letters are Tav, Vav, and Lamed, written with the Proto-Sinaitic alphabet.

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This ancient form of Hebrew is the oldest written language, and the origin of all alphabetic languages used in the world today.

Hebrew tradition says that this language was used before the tower of Babel, and was used all the way back to the time of Adam.

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The oldest Proto-Sinaitic Inscriptions found so far date to 1900 BC. Here is what the Proto-Sinaitic letters represent:

X – Tav: is a mark or sign, also written as a cross +
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I – Vav: means to attach, like a peg or nail, or fixed into like a hook in a fish.
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C – Lamed: means to direct, as in giving instructions, like the goad used to herd oxen. The verb form of Lamed means to prick or puncture as in using a sharp object to pierce the skin.

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The question at this point is why would there be letters from the ancient Hebrew language embedded in a Greek text.

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The following quotes found in the Bible and the ancient mystic book called the Zohar, provide the connection that associates the X and I symbols to the mark of Cain.

Gen 4:15 … ” And the LORD set a mark on Cain, lest anyone finding him should kill him.”

Remember X (Tav) means a mark or a sign in ancient Hebrew!

Remember the verb form of C “Lamed” means to puncture or pierce the skin!

This was not part of the mark per say, but the action taken to apply the mark.


The following chart shows the ancient Proto-Sinaitic alphabet in column 2.

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Note the little circle at the top of the I and C in the fragment above.

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The little circles at the top of the I and the C in the Oxyrhynchus Papyrus are deliberate.


The symbols decipher to mean: A mark, attached like a peg or hook, as a means to direct or control, applied by a piercing of the skin.

The mark that protected Cain was the X (Tau), which is the cross…..so it will be for us as well.

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Source # 2:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papyrus_115

Excerpt:

Papyrus 115 (in the Gregory-Aland numbering designated by clip_image009115, or P. Oxy. 4499) is a New Testament papyrus written in Greek.

It consists of 12 fragments of a papyrus codex which contains parts of the Book of Revelation.

It dates from the mid to late third century, around 225-275 CE.

This particular manuscript was not deciphered and published until the end of the twentieth century and is currently housed at the Ashmolean Museum, Oxford.

The text-type is Alexandrian. clip_image009[1]115 follows the text of Codex Alexandrinus (A) and Codex Ephraemi Rescriptus (C).

A curiosity of this text is that it gives “the number of the beast” as 616 (chi, iota, sigma (ΧΙϚ)), rather than the majority text — 666 (chi, xi, sigma (ΧΞϚ)).

If the letters are Hebrew, then the numeric value would be different from that if the numbers were in Greek.

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Hebrew count:

Tav – vav – lamed =

lamed – vav- tav ( since it reads from right to left) =

30 + 6 + 400 = 436

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Conclusions:

We have certain choices here:

1. the mark/number is 666

2. the mark/number is 616

3. if the mark is, cryptically, Hebrew letters, and not Greek, then the numeric value is 436


161 Responses to “616, not 666 ?”

  1. [...] here for [...]

    • 6 OUT OF 6 GIVES YOU CONTROL OVER ALL 6

    • 2012 is going to be left to you guys like this saying YOU CAN LEAD A HORSE TO WATER BUT YOU CANT MAKE EM DRINK it’s YOUR concious decision to move on with the fact that holy wars and whose story was right IT’S OVER NOW yall will see that not just 1 nation or just 1 religion can stand and be a dominating we been trying that for too long and end up in childish wars that give religions bad propaganda 2012 is saying UNITE as the all or stand and fall cuz when those Xitlali storms come in 2012

  2. What Hebrew letters Lamed-Vav-Tav have to do with it?

    Leviathan is spelled differently and has different numerical value.

    Ancient Tav looks like a cross and is indeed mark of Cain…but what it has to do with 666?

    • If X is the Mark of Cain, what alphebet does the X come from? Not Hebrew; Tav looks nothing like X in the Hebrew alphebet. The Tav written as a cross is written using the ancient (Hebrew) Proto-Sinaitic script. That is where the Lemed-Vav-Tav comes from. In the Oxyrhynchus Papyrus it says XIC is the mark of the Beast. Proto-Sinaitic letters XIC become Tav-Vav-Lamed in the Hebrew alphebet hundreds of years latter. … Oliver Thomas

      • P.S. — The point being: If this is true for the mark of Cain, might it also be true for the mark of the beast? … Oliver

        • He’s not a beast and the Earths Axis Looks like a cross only it doesn’t sit perfectly still it bounces and moves a lil bit

      • Wrong.

        Original Tav looks like cross or X. Check the alphabet:

        http://www.lost-civilizations.net/images/phoenician/phonecian.gif

        • What are you trying to say? The alphabet you show here is the Phoenician alphabet. The Proto-Sinaitic is much older.

          • hi Oliver

            The development of the alphabet may be confusing here, since the same letters take on varied forms.

            The idea here in this post is that instead of a Greek 666, the author may have used a different, more ancient alphabet, to write the number, as it had more meaning in the other language.

            The result is that it appears to be a 616 (to us in English), rather than a 666, but the numeric value is 436.

            If it is the mark of Cain, we have to remember that Cain was forgiven and the mark was used to protect him.

            However, it could also indicate a certain lineage of Cain, in which the Antichrist would come from Cain, rather than from Shem.

            • Hi Marianne,
              I agree, the alphabets did evolve and change in appearance over time, but the conceptual meanings would have remained intact.
              Again I agree, that the ancient alphabet had a deeper meaning, but a number can only convey a piece of information, that being the amount, size etc… it is meaningless unless you know what is counted. Some Hebrew numbers do convey a conceptual meaning. The number 6 for example is said to be the number of man, and the incomplete number because it’s one less than 7 the perfect number. Still, the conceptualization of a number can supply only a shadow of the actual object.
              In Revelation 13, we are looking for a mark, a number, and a name. It makes sense to view the X (Tau) as the mark because it means a mark in Hebrew; I (Vav, 6) as the number because it also is the number of man; and the C (Lamed) because it cryptically reveals the name Leviathan “Levithaw” Lamed Vav Tau, the name of the Beast given in the Old Testament. As far as the number 666 is concerned, I think it will be significant either by way of a new discovery of ancient information, or a future revelation.
              My own feeling about the mark of Cain is that it was not a sign of forgiveness and protection; I don’t think Cain ever really repented for the murder of Abel. The sign and mark appear to indicate that Cain was cursed and the mark was to warn others of his murderous and violent nature. In the New Testament, Jude says many of the lost in the last days have gone the way of Cain.

              Jude 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
              Jude 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
              Jude 1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

              Now, if Cain had repented he would have been no more a sinner than I, but his ways and life are used as an example of the fornicators and idol worshipers of the end times. In The Revelation Jesus gives us a description of what the error of Balaam was:

              Re 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

              You said “However, it could also indicate a certain lineage of Cain, in which the Antichrist would come from Cain, rather than from Shem.”
              I suspect it might be the other way around that Cain was born of the antichrist spiritually as were many at the time of Christ, and as it is today. The genetic line of Cain all perished in the flood. … Oliver

      • hpoe people can read this. X is his mark…KINDA along with +…KINDA. and YES 6 is his number.

        The proofs of life and death are in your face ALLWAYS. truth is not kind. Dont seek it out if you dont REALLY REALLY wanna know…red pill blue pill serious.

        here are your tools, its up to you to figure it out. hope people actually see this

    • My dear brothers and sisters — The Mark of the beast is just what it means. Cain had no REVELATION or remorse for his sins. He was a murderer. He like many today did not understand what a Revelation was. Faith is a Revelation of Gods Will. The New Birth today is still a Mystery. Col. 1:27
      From the beginning – Cains CHARACTER was BEASTLY — SERPENTINE
      Apostle Paul, Peter, Jude, Jesus, and more called MEN SATAN, BEAST, Natural Brute beasts – Jesus called them a Generation of Vipers same with John – Rev. 12 calls mankind = means Adam – a Great Red Dragon = snake
      We have all been snake bitten from the fall of Adam – Jesus flesh beoming the serpent on the pole as in Moses day. St. John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness,even so must the Son of man be lifted up. ver. 15 so whosoever believeth in him should not PERISH = 2nd. death twice dead – but have Eternal life- An animal does not have Eternal life.
      It’s hid from the wise and prudent and REVEALED to BABES as such that would or can be taught Spiritual things by The word.
      Rev. 13:16 – the Mark – Means Badge of Servitude -exact copy -
      — ENGRAVING CHARACTER – who is in control-Lord- of a man – The Holy Ghost our a Human Spirit – The Soul is the NATURE = CHARACTER of the Spirit person that is lord in a man or womans life. The anti-christ has been on Earth since Adam = mankind Fell from Eternal life. If your diet is the Tree of Knowledge of this world – you a dead man walking right now – Jesus said so. Whited grave stones and full of dead man bones, Jude said twice dead plucked up by the roots. Beasts – You Character is your MARK OF SERVITUDE, as the Hand does servitude for his master. The mark on FOREHEAD is the Mind of World = Satan = Humanspirit that rules as lord.
      The HOLY GHOST is the Mark of GOD that turns you Mind into the Mind of Christ. And changes your servitude from the god of this world to the God of all – the Lord Jesus Christ – If you love the things of the World the Love of God is not even in you. I know that is Old time religion but that is truth.
      Eze. 9 –tells you exactly what the Mark of the Beast and God is. Its not a mystery anymore – And Judgement begins in the House of God.
      The whole book of Revelation is the Tares and against the Wheat. 2 vines in the Church — Its called the Doctrine of the Nicolaitans which think I hate – Jesus says. Nicolaitan spirit will always bring in false prophets = Balaam’s stumbling block teachings, that lead to Jezebel religion = Mark of the beast.
      Lord bless you all and may God give us understanding in these last days.
      Bro. York

      • Hi Bro. York

        You make a good point. People get too preoccupied with a physical mark, when it is the spiritual aspect that is important. What is in our minds and how we use our hands is more important than what is physically on the surface of them.

      • Reading your comments, I was prompted to look up the comments about Balaam. I always thought Balaam was a Jew living among the Moabites, and thought he’d been treated unfairly in Christian teachings. As far as I can see, God gave him permission to go speak with Balak, and Balaam only said what God told him to say. Obviously, he was a seer who accepted payment for speaking of future things (which to me seems only reasonable — after all, he wasn’t in the priesthood, and didn’t have tithes and offerings to live off of). Plus, he was under duress by a king with an army, who kept repeatedly showing up at his doorstep, intimidating him with “presents.” Perhaps God didn’t like him being a “secular” seer, because even if he listened only to God, it set an example for other seers, who perhaps would NOT listen to God, but other spirits. Also, their seems to be some indication that he was accepting of people who lived together, having unmarried sex; and that was punished severely by Moses, who ordered him killed, when he sent the tribe in to slaughter the peoples in the vicinity, for living in a way we hold as commonplace today. If Moses was alive and did that today, we’d all call him a terrorist, wouldn’t we? I would.

        • Dear Cameowalkin – Balaam was plainly told “NOT TO GO”
          prophecy AGAINST Israel. But like many today. The fame, fortune, popularity he just could not resist the temptation to ASK God AGAIN. Then God said “go on”. But he was out of the “will of God” now. Like so many today go their own way and not the Will of God’s way. They lean to their own understanding instead of Revelation by the “Spirit” of Spoken Word.
          Yet God still speaks through them as He did Balaam. Remember he could not prophecy bad “against Israel”. God got ahold of him and he prophecied one of the most beautiful prophecies about Israel that was exactly the truth. They was Blessed and no False Prophet was gonna change that. Remember dear brother that Judas was sent out with the rest of the desciples yet always had a devil in him. Jesus knew that. Judas ended up selling out his birth right just like Balaam did. Just like Cain did, Just like Esau did on and on.
          Balaam doctrine and Teachings are mentioned in Rev. 2:14 Jesus says that Balaam doctrine is a stumblingblock – caused by eating things sacrificed unto idols and commiting fornication. So when the children of Israel did come and meet them. They joined themselves together with the Pagan Moabites and committed fornication and they ended up serving their pagan gods = plural – Israel had to pay a great price for listening to Balaam doctrine. Remember also that the Moabites where decendants of Abraham by Lot and his 2 daughters. So they was half brothers only – NOT full Brothers and the nation was conceived in fornication by Lot’s own daughters laying with their father. Which came out of Sodom and Gomorrah.
          Today the church is full of Balaam “anti-will = anti-christ false doctrines.
          Revelaion 17- called “Mystery Babylon Mother of Harlots”. The Mother is the Catholic Universal church and the harlots came out of her. The Universal church had political connection and not Holy Ghost connection just like Balaam had. They killed millions of true Christians by torture and yet worse. People still believe and preach Catholic dogma in “Most all denominations”. This is the truth – 1,260 years of dark ages and still the church today is suffering defeat because they still believe in the myths that the false prophets of Baal preach in the Catholic “UNIVERSAL” church taught hundreds of years ago as the truth. The two vines of Christianity still exists today with True Prophets and False Prophets. Did not Jesus warn us of many, many False prophets in the last days. Yet he called the Bride a Little Flock. Few they be that find the true way. There are only 2 gates to go through. Wide and Narrow Matt. 7.
          The Moabite Nation did not want nothing to do with those fanatic Israelites. But they were afraid of them and if you can’t beat them then get some heirling prophets to teach them to join together and work things out. The Israelites joined with their pagan fleshy ways, that brought death to thousands at Baal peor.
          Baal peor means the “Lord of the opening”. Men and women – pagan and true believers mating and destroying their faith by fornication and pagan ways. Just like in Noah’s day. The Sons of God mating with daughters of men. This is all in the bible to read. God bless you all in Jesus Name Bro. Tom

    • He’s not a beast he’s not evil PUNISHER OF THE WICKED I SWEAR TO GOD U GUYS GET SHIT MIXED UP AND START THROWING IMAGES AND MODERN DAY BUL* INTO F* STORYS THAT’S ALL THEY ARE THAT’S WHY WE LOOK FORWARD NEVER BACK

      • EVEN IN THE BIBLE THEIR WAS 2 AND A HALF ANGELS NAMED GABRIEL, MICHAEL, AND LUCIFER MICHAEL I REALLY CAN’T REMEMBER CUZ I ONLY READ IT TWICE BUT GABRIEL SLAYED LUCIFER AND MICHAEL WAS SEEN BY ZACHERIAS WHILE HE WAS WORKING OR IT WAS MICHAEL THAT SLAYED LUCIFER

      • Zac, sweetheart, you cannot use profanity on my site, I have to edit your words. use better language. thanks

    • The ‘X’ mark (cross on it’s side) was also a mark used by the Knights Templar and Knights of the Rose Cross (Robert de Brus was of Belguim descent, his people coming from Brussels, now Illuminati HQ); he knighted all 13 signers of the Arboath Declaration into the Order of the Rose Cross, after his killing of John Cromyn on the alter of the sanctuary (a ritual “green” killing, often used in Druid power takeovers, symbolic of religious and worldly power assimilation of the conquered — like the Kennedy killings). This Order opposed England, and the Papal powers, because of genocide, burnings, tortures and betrayals of every kind; and the Order was determined to bring them down. Of course, there’s much more to this story, and things aren’t nearly so clear these days. But notice things didn’t fare well for the signers and their decendants, and the Scottish empire was lost to the English. Now, Palestine’s asking for mediation (and Israel would do well to steer clear of all ‘helpers’; will she learn from other nation’s mistakes?) For that matter, will America learn to inquire of God, and forsake other ‘helpers’? It’s our life and freedom at stake.

      The point is, the ‘X’ mark shows the Illuminati, Masons, and Lightworkers are the people who are pushing the ‘mark’ to control the populace. It might be a chip, but could very well be skincodes (tatoos with nano ink and hidden watermark banding.) All who take it will get sick.

      This was a very thoughtful article and I think you are right, Marianne, that the revelatory remarks about the mark pointed to Hebrew letters. You’ve given me much to think about, and I appreciate your work.

  3. gavirel

    you are right. I should have looked up Leviathan first.

    http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H3882&t=KJV

    Lamed-Vav-Tav is not leviathan. Leviathan is
    Lamed – vav – yud -tav- nun

    But this shows the speculation out there. I will correct this part.

    The point here is that the original text indicated 616, not 666.

  4. If you write down the name of the letter Vav, it spells Vav-Aleph-Vav, which literally is 6-1-6, but I don’t know what to make out of it.

    Laviathan, represents Malchut (material of created universe) and its egoistical nature – as opposed to altruistic nature of God, it can also be see as our milky way, which has a for of Serpent eating its own tail lying amidst of the sea (cosmos);

    • gavirel

      the fragment reads XIC….not I……..in ancient Proto-Sinaitic alphabet, this is Tav – vav – lamed

    • Malkuth represents the ten world divisions (to our frame of reference) and alchemically, refers to creation and destruction of matter (a Masonic aim), pointing to the Hadron colliders, experimentation with dark matter, the desire to master teleportation, and the Illuminati’s desire to open a portal for dimensional travel (to let the devils in, whom they call ascended masters). At the top levels of world power are Luciferians, cloaked in the green movement — and Malkuth represents their intent to slaughter most of mankind to restore the natural balance to Earth (their intentional sacrifices to their devils), and usher in a New Age, free of Christianity.

      That’s the point of setting up the terrorists to begin with — to turn people against them in hatred; and later, to classify Christians as terrorists when they refuse their mark. It’s the fascist process of relabeling people to make genocide acceptable. Hitler made people wear a mark; and the Antichrist regime will condemn them for refusing a mark.

      How did Malkuth (Leviathan) tie into the numbers? What number does Leviathan turn out to be?

  5. Read Rev 13:16-18 as a block. Verse 16 is about the mark of the beast. Verse 17 tells us how to understand the mark — the mark is the number or name. Verse 18 actually reveals the identity of the mark. The identity of the beast is not in question — he who forces everyone to take it. He will also be known by what the mark IS. But *when* will we be able to recognize his name? What if it’s the mark that announces the beast instead of the beast announcing the mark? It may be more important that we know what the mark is rather than the beast’s name, since the mark may be implemented by a proxy or deceptive means. How many times have you heard that something is a PROCESS not a GOAL? Though that concept is often incorrectly applied, it forces one to think about steps and increments rather than the final state. What if the mark of the beast is a PROCESS that needs to be guarded against rather than merely the end state? Then verse 18 is extremely important since it protects against the FIRST PROCESS STEP and more thoroughly blocks the final goal.

    That said, reference this sentence: “The symbols decipher to mean: A mark, attached like a peg or hook, as a means to direct or control, applied by a piercing of the skin.” To me, this is a subcutaneous RFID chip/tag. If the symbols are indeed as stated, this is a direct confirmation of Christian speculation on the subject for years. RFID tagging has being done with animals already:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microchip_implant_(animal)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RFID

    Chipping/tagging/marking might easily begin by forcing everyone to have their medical records stored on the chip as part of universal health care. This could be mandated by individual governments before the super-government structure is revealed. Then buying/selling/banking functions can be made mandatory through later legislation. That’s my educated speculation, anyway.

    • hi Fred,

      It may be a chip. We have the technology for it, and the NWO is planning on it. People do tend to show their loyalty in support of people and causes. They wear things on their body – T shirts, tatoos, bracelets, hats, for political parties, sports, colleges…a chip is just the next logical step. I guess we will see soon, if this concept plays out as true.

    • M.A.R.C. also stands for multi-automated reader card, which is the magnetic strip on our ID cards, which we swipe. The RFID chips (now on our bank cards, passports, and state IDs) are the update of the magnetic strips; and the skincodes, tatood in nano ink (developed from solar inks) will be the update of the chips (because people can cut the chips out, or squash chips in cards, but they’ll have a real aversion to skinning themselves.)

      You’re right; marking the people is done gradually, like cooking frogs, lest they jump out and save themselves. It’s easier to get everyone onto this system, unable to go back to any other, and THEN introduce the Antichrist into the mix. Plus, since there’s been no danger all along, it makes those who resist changes look like unreasonable nut jobs — later, it will make it easier to turn people’s hatred against them, by classifying them as terrorists, and blaming them for all the ills of the world — just because they refuse the mark.

      And people who’ve become used to this way of living will say, Certainly God won’t punish us for buying food, renting an apartment, giving to others … after all, what have we done that’s so wrong? And their reasoning isn’t wrong … it’s just that they’re now allied with the Lord of Destruction, through their participation in that system of payment, and God must honor their choice. Jesus said it would be a hard, narrow path, devoid of people, and He meant it.

      Don’t think they’ll make it easy to live off the grid. Everything will be made a crime, from catching a fish, sipping water from a stream, picking a leaf from a tree … certainly making a fire will be criminal (in Australia, it already is in many places). They’ll set those who resist up for destruction and feel justified.

    • Well this is just dumb. Evolution aside (I’m not a believer), this simply ignores history, geology, archaeology and just plain common sense. Do you think people 500 years from now will assume that everything Hollywood has put out was based on fact?
      Give me a break.

      • hi James,

        Which part of the content is “dumb?” What do you mean by the analogy with Hollywood? I am not following you.

        • I come from a science and engineering background and I know that the dinosaurs were wiped out 65 million years ago. There is no evidence that they existed in recorded history other than these fanciful drawings that are no more based on reality than the star wars movies of Hollywood. If there were real dragons during the days of the Knights we would expect to find recent remains and not fossils. Just ask any science teacher or history teacher about this. If Plato knew about dinosaurs he would have written about them. Dinosaurs and dragons are not found in history books, only comic books and vivid imaginations. Sorry, but I just don’t buy it.

          • james

            what about the leviathan mentioned by Job?

            how can you tell that the fossils of dinosaurs are not from the time of the knights?

            There can be rapid fossilization.

            • Sorry but nothing can turn to stone in a few hundred years. Noahs ark, found in 1982 i think is around 5000 years old and has only begun the process. Believe me, if there were dinosaurs alive during recorded history it would be easily proven. The fossil record shows that there were no dinosaurs on earth from the end of the Cretaceous period through the pleistocene. So where did they come from and where did they go? After all , unlike bigfoot, a dinosaur can’t hide out in the woods. If all the dinosaurs depicted in the video were real, they would have quickly multiplied and returned to being the dominant species on earth just as they were before. Remember, it took an asteroid hit to wipe them out or else they would still be here today.
              I’m afraid the whole idea just doesn’t make sense when you analyze it thoroughly.
              It does make for a fanciful story though, like alien beings building the pyramids and such.
              As I said before, I’m just not buying it.

              • james,

                I am tyring to determine the actual issue here – what you believe about pre-history, vs what you think of the presentation in the video.

                time issue – Cretaceous period through the pleistocene – only times that can be verified by direct observation and measurement give accurate results. this is why we us standard curves in science. if it goes off the curve, it is not valid data. we cannot prove these time periods are real, because no one was there to record it. carbon dating is “off the curve” and does not provide valid data.

                if drawings from all over the world show the same animal, I do not think it is fanciful…the drawings appear to be something they have seen and copied.

                for fossilization to occur:
                1. the formation of a biofilm of bacteria on the leaf surface

                2. the deposition metallic ions on the leaf surface which preserves the leaf’s form for a long enough time for the rest of fossilization to occur.

                some opponents and proponents of this: if this is accompanied by a rapid burial, and the object can be coated with the biofilm within weeks. A rapid burial may have occurred during the time of noah’s flood.

                • If you believe the earth is only 6000 years old then you have no chance at understanding earths true history. Do you remember when the church imprisoned Galileo for claiming the earth was not the center of the universe? They tried to refute the science as long as they could but after a while it was obvious that science was correct and they had to chance their tune.
                  Well, history is repeating itself. There is real science and BS science. I have studied both including the so-called collapsing of geologic time. I have over 100 units of geology and have spent countless weeks in the field from the grand canyon, San Andreas fault, Cascade volcanoes, Bryce & Zion, Niagara Falls, Carlsbad caverns (among many others) and a thousand other formations that could never have been created in just 6000 years without changing the laws of nature. If God created natural laws then he must expect us to believe in them when we study the universe. And speaking of the universe, how is it we can see stars billions of light-years away whose light has been travelling for as many years if they were created only 6000 years ago along with the earth? The night sky should be completely devoid of stars! Sorry but strict bible science simply does not add up. The cute theories sound plausible but I can easily find a million holes in them. They twist chemistry and physics into knots to try to get them to fit their theories, using yet unexplained anomalies as if they were the norm.
                  Also, dinosaur fossils are only found in three rock layers dating from the Mesozoic Era. None have been found in recent deposits, fossilized or otherwise.
                  As or the images having to be real, don’t forget the four headed leopard of Daniel and the wild beasts of revelation. Obviously they are not to be taken literally. I’m sure ancient humans were capable of vivid imaginations so I don’t believe everything they describe or draw was real. Do you believe in centaurs too? How about mermaids? Just because someone draws them doesn’t make them true.

          • “I come from a science and engineering background and I KNOW that the dinosaurs were wiped out 65 million years ago”

            You don’t believe the bible but you believe all these thoeries about dinosaurs and evolution…..Interesting. Scientist cannot know what they don’t know, that’s why they base their studies in theories. No matter how smart a man can be, next to God, he’s absolutely nothing…..

          • THREE WORLD AGES
            The dinosaurs were destroyed in the katabole after the first earth age…

            First Earth Age:

            The first earth age was the time spoken of in Genesis 1:1, II Peter 3, and Jeremiah 4:18 to the end of the chapter.

            Mankind did not exist in the flesh but the animal world did.

            All souls were created in the first earth age and lived in their spirit bodies. The rebellion of Satan brought about the katabole…destruction of the first earth age (and the dinosaurs with other flesh animals) 1/3 of all spirit bodies created in the first earth age followed Satan and fell with him.

            This brought about the end of the first age. It is because of that fall, or “toho va boho” the destruction, where by all animals and living forms on earth came to an end.

            8414 tohuw (to’-hoo); from an unused root meaning to lie waste; a desolation (of surface), i.e. desert; figuratively, a worthless thing; adverbially, in vain: KJV– confusion, empty place, without form, nothing, (thing of) naught, vain, vanity, waste, wilderness.

            922 bohuw (bo’-hoo); from an unused root (meaning to be empty); a vacuity, i.e. (superficially) an undistinguishable ruin: KJV– emptiness, void.

            Second Earth Age:

            The second earth age started with Genesis 1:2, – God’s plan of reconstruction of this earth. This is the age of the flesh where all souls were required to be born from above through woman’s womb of water to be tried and tested as to whether they would follow God or Satan.

            However there are some that fought against Satan’s rebellion and were judged and set aside in that first earth age as the “elect”.

            Periods of the second earth age:

            First period: from Adam to the flood of Noah… ten generations.

            Second period: from Noah’s flood, to the Abraham covenant.. . approximately 400 years,

            Third period: from the Abrahamic covenant to the time Moses led the children of Israel out of Egypt. This period included the birth of Isaac and his son Jacob who’s name was changed to Israel by God. Israel had twelve sons and those twelve sons bred from twelve families into a nation of twelve tribes.

            Forth period: from Moses leading the children out of Israel to entering into promised land. Time; forty years. This was the time in the wilderness when God gave the laws, statutes and ordinances.

            Fifth period: The time of the judges to the monarchy… about 450 years. During this time Israel was ruled by Judges that God appointed.

            Sixth period: The time of the Monarchy to the split of the kingdom… about 120 years. During this time Israel was ruled by King Saul for 40 years… King David for 40 years… King Solomon 40 years…then the kingdom was split into two houses “the House of Israel” and “the House of Judah”.

            Seventh period is split

            The rule of the House of Israel was about 200 years to the time of captivity by Assyria.

            The rule of the House of Judah was about 320 years when Nebuchadnezzar the King of Babylon brought Judah into captivity.

            The House of Israel comprised the ten tribes to the north. The House of Israel was captured and scattered in 722 B.C.. The Tribes became so scattered that they lost the identity and became known as the 10 Lost Tribes. They went over the Caucausus Mountains and are called Caucasians.

            The House of Judah is comprised the tribes of Judah and Benjamin with part of the tribe of Levi.

            Judah spends 70 years in captivity in Babylon and returned to Judah in 1948 to become a nation.

            The good figs and the bad figs returned to Judah – fig tree generation.

            Eighth period: Israel never returns as a nation until the Millennium age.

            Ninth period: Close of the Old Testament to the Birth of Christ. This period starts with the Jews coming out of Babylon, released by Cyrus the Great, and led by Ezra and Nehemiah back to Jerusalem to rebuild the temple and city of Jerusalem. It was at this time that the scribes (Kenites) started changing scripture

            Ninth period: the Grecian [Hellenists] came to power and the world was split into four parts called the king of the north, south, east and west. The King of the north was Salucid Leggit, who ruled from Syria to India. The king of the South was Ptolomy Soto, who ruled Egypt, all Africa and the Arabian area of today. The king of the east was Lysandrius, who later died and the kingdom shattered into small nations in what we call Eastern Europe today and the king of the west was Casandrus, who also died without a legacy, and this kingdom was later built into the Roman empire.

            Tenth period: will be about 2000 years, up to the time of the coming of the Antichrist…age of grace

            Eleventh period: This is the time of the Antichrist

            Third Earth Age:

            Man returns to spirit body as Paul explains in I Corinthians 15:50-54.

            Twelfth period: The Millennium age, 1,000 years, after which Satan will be realeased and many will continue to worship him… those not saved during the millennium will be judged by their works…not by grace.

            The elect will be the joint teachers, priests and judges with Jesus Christ during this period and they will have received their incorruptible bodies.

            Thirteenth period: the Great white throne of judgment where all men are judged by their works. The evil and sinful souls with go with Satan into the lake of fire and become ashes. Even the memory of those will be taken from the minds of the souls with eternal life. The saved Elect will not be judged here but receive rewards

            Fourteenth period: Eternal kingdom. New heaven and a new earth… the new Jerusalem comes down from heaven and all rewards will be eternal.

        • Evolution is a joke, howcome Crocodiles and Sharks never change and monkeys are still monkeys. Man come form God. The center of the Bible says “It is better to have faith in the Lord than to put one’s hope in man. Salm 118 – 8 it’s the center of the Bible, who can explain this to me. Evolution is a theory that nobody, no even scientiits can prove. I guess the day will come when we all will know who God is.

          • hi Martin

            I agree with you, and I’m a scientist.

            • Just a thought…If scientists are correct and the different layers of earth represent time periods covering millions of years, somebody explain to me how petrified tree trunks have been found standing erect through several layers that scientists “claim” are different eras, etc. representing hundreds of millions of years? Also, if carbon dating is so “accurate”, explain to me how a living mollusk’s shell tested by carbon dating showed the age of the mullusk to be several million years old? Every so called “ancestor” of modern homosapien man has also either been proven to be a hoax or was found to be skull fragments, teeth, etc of other animals. Face it, Evolution is a lie of the devil. It has turned mans eyes away from the creator and put their faith in science rather than God.

          • Please read my reply below. Heres a good one for you…The Coelacanth fish was “supposed” to be extinct some 326 million years ago. But…They are alive and well, living off the coast of Africa. Fisherman have been catching them and evolutionists that have been “professing themselves wise” are starting to look pretty foolish.

          • Their brains only get so big crocodiles and ur example you can’t see evolution hitting a plateau after that to bring mental evolution physical must come first change starts somewhere right? So first would be signs of evolution physical features and s* like that besides sharks and crocodiles were ment to survive and dominate u can’t take a fish out of water and you can’t take a crocidile from it’s environment they weren’t wired to over reach like us

      • NATURAL GROWTH AND PLANNED GROWTH ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS IT’S LIKE PLACING KNOWLEDGE AND WISEDOM UNDER THE SAME CATEGORY IT JUST DOESN’T WORK

  6. Has anyone read the book “Why I Left Jihad” by Walid Shoebat? In it he has an interesting portion that deals with this very portion of the Oxyrhynchus Papyri and his comparison to the Codex Vaticanus AD 350 on pages 319- 325 of his book. In summary his take is that it is possible that this portion of the Apostle John’s revelation may have appeared as Arabic text and John faithfully recorded what he saw, as what is written (albeit sideways), perhaps as the scholars who copied the manuscript may have changed it to their understanding of the Greek letter digamma (which no longer exists) …what you have if you turn it back are the words Bism Allah or “in the name of Allah” or “bismillah” …it is explained in great detail and clearly with examples and photos and I found it to be quite interesting and would be interested in hearing any comments from anyone else who might have read his book. Besides this portion the book is an interesting read on how he came to be a believer in Messiah and his fight against Islamic terror today.

  7. Here is part 9 of the history ‘Proto- Siniatic’ alphabet or symbols.
    A very interesting study if one wishes to learn.
    A good channel to visit.

  8. Trish, I’m familiar with the example you mention and Mr. Shoebat makes a very compelling argument. I’ve said often that any eschatology that doesnt take into the account the role of Islam is incomplete. There’ve been many associations made with the mark of the beast and the Jewish phylactery. The phylactery was at it’s core symbolic of relationship with God and allegiance to his word. With this in mind, the “mark” may be little more than allegiance in the same sense that you can walk down any street and see a woman in otherwise western clothing wearing a Hijab (Islamic headscarf) and automatically know her religion and thus her allegiance. Likewise and much more insidious, the early church encountered the random demand to make obeisance to the name of Caesar and were identified by their unwillingness to relent. While the idea of technology as it pertains to much of the endtimes events is interesting, a lot of it is simply applying western thinking rather than using the Hebrew mind in which it was written. I’ve always been a little sketchy about the idea of implantation as the mark. John may not have had a word for Radio Frequency ID but certainly he would have recognized that people were being injected with something. Or that the “deadly wound” suffered by the beast in one of his heads (could easily be a nation within his confederacy) being a gunshot to the head. I think the less we try to sexy up scripture the better off we’ll be. Maranatha.

  9. It does not make sense why we are fighting with each other, if it were not for our brothers, the jewish people, we so called christians would not exist. I believe that Jesus is the promised messiah, but i also believe that christianity is over run with pagan images and symbols that Christ warned the early brothers not to get involved with. All of the painting depicting Jesus are misleading and false. I agree whole heartedly that we in the west, especially in america have become lost and have forgotten our jewish roots, after all the very first church were all jews. No matter what color their skin was, they were all brothers in the faith and somewhere in the corridors of time we have forgotten that we belong to each other and need each other. We are not loving our brothers and that is what Jesus was all about, you may not agree that he was the messiah, but you cannot deny he lived, history has proven this over and over, and i can provide those facts if you need them. So here we are back to the age old question, who was the man Jesus of nazareth. That debate has separated us for too long, listen there should be no division between the brothers of the faith, one GOD, one faith, one baptism, one people lets stop this fighting .

    • Christians cannot be friends with the Kenites. They killed Jesus. They claim to be our brother Judah…but crept in Jerusalem with Ezra and Nehemiah and took over the priestly duties. Today they change scripture and teach false doctrine. Jesus put enmity between Christians and Kenites when Satan beguiled (wholly seduced) Eve in the garden.
      Please do research on the Kenites.
      Carolyn Jackson

      • hi Carolyn

        It might be hard after 2000 years to identify Kenites, unless there is a genetic test.

        Not just in Judaism, but in Christianity also, we find false doctrine.

  10. A science and engineering background doesnt preclude you from accepting the obvious. Nevermind that ALL cultures have prevalent dragon myths; let’s also throw out the fact that while you could possibly (but shouldnt) ask a history teacher about paleontology. We can even ignore the supposition that dinosaurs died out 65 million years ago.

    Instead of looking for a dinosaur from the dark ages (there are numerous accounts, but we’ll ignore those too); try instead to find HUMAN remains from that period. We have no more proof other than…um…arcane records on canvas and word of mouth. Why is the life of Da Vinci having been passed down through transcribed history more credible than dinosaurs from the same?

    We can say with some hubris that we “know” humans existed 600 years ago. We are given more certainty because of the care we take to bury humans. But those who die and rot outside human care meet the same fate that almost all living things do-decomposition into nothingness. The surprise isn’t that there aren’t more dinosaur skeletons, but that theyre are any at all.

    The process of fossilization is immensely unlikely. The rare specimen that is found had to meet an astronomically precise and unlikely set of circumstances to survive.

    There are lots of things that Plato didn’t write about because he didn’t know about them. Plato is a woefully inept source for alot of information; many of his ideas in the theories of forms contradicts scriptural understandings. Better thought is applied in the Ship of Theseus or in Baudrillard Simulation and Simulacra.

    And if by history you mean recoreded history, you’re looking in the wrong sources. The Bible need be all you could ask for yet there are a number of secular sources that describe creatures that cannot be anything but dinosaurs-sources as recent as the 13th century.

    Forget youtube videos if you want to be truly objective. But as Marianne cited, the Bible spends a considerable amount of time on the description of the Leviathan. This alone ought to be enough to amend ones thinking. Maranatha

  11. James, again, it would seem to me that the evidence of dinosaurs and man co-existing is overwhelming. Whether or not you choose to accept that evidence is really a moot point. The larger issue is do you believe the Gospel; that Christ, the eternally existent Son of God came in the form of a man to die so that he could satisfy the penalty of sin; that he arose from the dead and lives forever and that we now have the ability to escape our rightful punishment. We can argue about our interpretation of science or any number of issues, but none of these have any bearing on our salvation. If you do, I don’t want to seem that I’m calling your faith into question; I don’t believe we’ve ever spoken on issues of salvation. But if not, will you consider Christ?

  12. THE GOSPEL OF THOMAS was also found at Oxyrhynchus….The gospel of Thomas is not a legitimate book so I serious doubt this book of revelation is legitimate…The gospel of thomas is a gnostic gospel.The gnostics doctrines are doctrines of demons… The gnostics were probably part of the antichrist John said was among them then…

    Jesus said his words will stand forever.. I believe him.. I do not believe gnocism… It is mind ripping doctrines of demons…

    • Hi Ruth,

      How do we know that this is gnostic? I noticed that it is different from the other codex vaticanus 666 symbols. I have looked carefully and it is. But how do I find out for sure that this is not legitimate? Also, where is the oldest copy of the correct codex vaticanus 666 symbols that are popularly displayed? Thank you VERY much.

      Amanda

  13. Mariann, Are you saying the taw is a bad mark? or a good one?

  14. Thank you! and here I tell you why my question. It is concerning Eze 9:3-5, 1 Pet 4:17 and Rev 7…what is your take on those, as
    related to marks? Two of my study bibles support the taw/mark as a cross too and as a mark on the godly. ???

    • erikah..

      it has been used as a mark of protection by God.

      Even Cain was repentant, and God put that mark on him, so others would not hunt him down and kill him. The mark of Cain protected Cain. It did not condemn him.

  15. Hi Marianne, I find your site very interesting. I love it. Do you have any way to sign in it or I have to just reply to those discussions if I wish to make some contributions.

    Thanks Regards…
    Ashok Xess

    • hi Ashok

      You do not have to sign in, or be a member.

      This is for everyone, with different opinions. The idea is to get people to think. So there will be agreement sometimes, and debates other times.

      Sometimes I might respond, and you will get an email from me, if that happens. I am the only one who can email you.

      You would have to check back to the site if you were waiting for a response from someone else.

  16. O’ I got it….

  17. Maybe we should try to decipher 616 as this guy deciphered 666.
    Every thought has value.

  18. Name “Maitreya” in hebrew has value of 666 no matter how you write it…

  19. What I don’t understand about this article is this: If the first letter/number is translated as a six, and the last of the three is likewise, shouldn’t they be the SAME (i.e., XIX)?

    Karen

    • hi Karen

      You have to think in units….ones, tens, hundreds

      666 = 600 + 60 + 6

      616 = 600 + 10 + 6

      the letter abbreviation for 600 will not be the same as the letter for 6.

  20. Sadly, as I read some of the articles(to the right on your webpage) I encountered information which was not in agreeent with God’s word, The Holy Bible; therefore your writings and beliefs are unscripturial and you are a heretic. I pray you will study and read The Holy Bible and ask God to interepret his word, not tradition or earthly teachers. The Holy Bible is never wrong. If man’s teachings do not agree with the word of God then the error is with man not God. “The just shall live by faith.”, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved”, and “If we confesss our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness”. Regarding, the speaking of tongues: I used to attend churches which spoke in tongues and they were always out of order when they spoke in tongues(according to God’s word, The Holy Bible) and there is not a singular mention of falling down under the influence of The Holy Spirit as is taught and practiced in these false movements (of which catholics now are involved and accepted as fellow Christians; since catholics pray to Mary and other so called saints and bow and worship idols they definitely are not saved and therefore could not being speaking in tongue). All persons who have been saved are filled with The Holy Spirit (this is taught in the New Testament–The Holy Bible).

    • Hi Dee,

      If you think I am wrong about something, you are welcome to make a comment with your correction. Everything here is my best opinion, based on what I can find in scripture. If I find I am wrong, I can change it. Any opinion can change with better information.

  21. On the number 616 and 616 – some Bible Scholars believe those are the numbers that corresponded with the name Nero Caesar – and that they stand for his name. This is something you can also look up on the internet.

  22. I am deeply confused about the Codex Vaticanus. I pray that you can help me to find the truth that I am looking for. I have looked online and have viewed several different copies of the codex vaticanus. It has left me deeply perplexed because they do not match. Most of them match. However, the partial parchment, which I believe to be the oldest copy, is shown many times online. There is often a red arrow, pointing to the symbols on it, what is left of it. When you compare it to the symbols that are on other copies, they simply do not match. Why is this? A symbol is either changed to another symbol or it remains the same. Has the codex vaticanus “666 symbols” been changed to something different than what is on the oldest parchment? Or is the red arrow not pointing to the correct symbols? Thank you very much for your time.

    God Bless,

    Amanda

    • hi amanda

      I am not sure, since i cannot see what you are talking about. Do you have images of these mismatched copies? They could be from different portions of a page, and not copies of identical text.

    • Amanda, you are mixing different notions, because “666″ does not appear in the Codex Vaticanus as such, since this Codex (written in Uncials) does not originally have the Book of Revelation, which has been added to it in minuscules during the Middle Ages. You can find a photographic version of the NT part of the Codex Vaticanus on the following site: http://www.csntm.org/Manuscript/View/GA_03
      If you find another manuscript claiming to be this Codex and not matching this photographic image of it, you can be sure it is not the original.
      As to “666″, it is not a sequel of three distinct symbols, but the modern manner of representing the number six hundred and sixty-six, i.e., six times one hundred plus six times ten plus six.
      The “616″ form for this number (six times one hundred plus ten plus six) comes from only one source, which is one of the Oxyrhynchi Papyri, a collection of false NT texts, such as the Gospel of Thomas or the Gospel of Bartholomew, so this indication alone proves the falsehood of 616. However, this falsehood has not been perpetrated in purpose, but rather because of incompetence. Indeed, in ancient Greek, the number “six hundred” is represented by the letter “chi”, the number “sixty” by the letter “hex” (an “x” in fact), and the number six by the letters “digamma” or “stigma”. And the number “ten” is represnted by the letter “iota” (an “i” in fact). Now the scribe who falsified the number (and not the three cyphers) 666 simply mistook a slimly written “hex” (often encountered) for an “iota”, and wrote the sequel “chi” “iota” “stigma” instead of “chi” “hex” “stigma”, i.e. “six hundred” “ten” “six” instead of “six hundred” “sixty” “six”.
      And this is why there is only one correct reading of this number, which you find in all Bibles: 666 is nothing else than the number six hundred and sixty-six.

      This being said, this number indeed can be drawn from the name of the head of a large organisation persecuting the Christian Church throughout the ages, this man being “the man of sin” and the “anti-christ”, meaning one who opposes Christ. And people who don’t want to know who that man is of course congratulate each other for not wanting to know what the number represents because they don’t think it is important to know, in which case I wonder why Jesus put it in the Revelation. Would it be possible He would have given us unimportant information we should not try to understand ?

      I don’t think so.

      Hope to have helped you.

      Blessings,

      Fernand.

  23. “The devil is a better theologian than any of us and is the devil still.” A.W. Tozer

  24. Let us be not wise in our own conceits. May I offer an opinion that it appears to me (a man who realizes wisdom is a gift from GOD) that the unwise and wise alike should clearly see that Marianne is quite correct in her analysis of 616 and 666. I think that perhaps the number and name are actually irrevelent to a point, however, in that an “antichrist” (or better “anti-christ”) should be easily identified as an imposter for satan proposing to be greater than the real Christ Jesus and promoting satan himself as the ultimate image to worship, thereby, speaking and teaching against the athority of Christ and especially omitting GOD as the one and only ALMIGHTY GOD. It follows that one’s choice is to decide which (whose) mark you want, and whom to worship and serve. In that regard, if one chooses satan, the mark most likely will be a mark representing satan and his image. I would like to see if Marianne can figure numbers related to satan and his Hebrew name(s), if she thinks this is a relevent idea. I am an engineer and I think this web site is productive.
    Also, with regards to Dinasaurs, I read that the term was coined in 1955, and the greatest dinasaur find ever discovered was in China at a site named “DRAGON BONES”. Another interesting thing reported about this site was that the dinasaur bones were found to be mostly uncovered- above ground! How many dragons read about before 1955, were actually dinasaurs?

    • hi John,

      I am not good at Gematria, the numbering associated with Hebrew words, but I can ask someone who can, and get back to you.

      Satan in Hebrew is actually Satan.
      It is Sin (300?)- Tet (9)- Nun (50)

      616 (chi, iota, sigma (ΧΙϚ) if Hebrew loosely looks like (?)
      in hebrew letters…. Tau – vav – no real match (lamed?)

      I think if we just look for anti-christ BEHAVIOR, and not just the name or number, we will find what we need.

      Maybe this theory is correct on this page:
      http://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/the-number-666-according-to-muslims/

      -

      We need to remember that the Antichrist person, will be using the language, script, and alphabet of his own country for his own name and number.

      Unless he is Greek or Hebrew, then we can use those alphabets to decipher the code.

      Suppose what John saw was Arabic, for example? He just copied what he saw.

      Walid Shoebat is a former terrorist muslim who converted, and who says he immediately recognized the “666″ in the Greek text.

      see you tube video


      -

    • WOW! This makes perfect sense!

      The name of the beast is of course “in the name of Allah”

      What is so strange is that earlier today I almost bought the movie “kingdom of heaven”-the movie just “jumped out at me” but I didn’t. Then I come to this page and view the video and this guy mentions that we should watch it…I will be watching it now for sure.

      And regarding the badge as the mark, this would make sense as well.

      I have always felt there was more behind the words on the pages in the scriptures and have wanted to get my hands on the original and get someone to translate to me what the original writings were.

      Thank you Marianne! This was a definite eye opener.

  25. Long time reader / 1st time poster. Really enjoying reading the blog, keep up the good work. Will definitely start posting more in the near future.

  26. Here 5602 is 2076 wisdom 4678. Let him that hath 2192 understanding 3563 count 5585 the number 706 of the beast 2342: for 1063 it is 2076 the number 706 of a man 444; and 2532 his 846 number 706 [is] Six hundred threescore [and] six 5516.

    This is the way we usually see Rev. 13:18 translated. However, in light of Walid Whoebat’s understanding, we can also read it like this:

    Here is wisdom, Let him that has understanding “cast your vote” concerning the “multitude” of the beast, for it is a “multitude” of “Adamic man”; and the beast’s multitude is prodded, or goes by the crossed swords of Allah.

    If you look up the words “number”, “he”, and “a man” in your concordance, “number” can mean an indefinite number, or multitude. And the prounoun “he” used for the beast, is a pronoun that can likewise be an “it” as well as a “he”, “they”, or even a “she”. Assuming the pronoun is an “it”, that would make the number of the beast: a multitude of Adamic members of an organization whose multitude uses the symbol of the X, or crossed swords. Also the word for “a man” in Rev. 13:18 can be used generically to mean “mankind” or “unregenerated man”, making the article “a”, in “a man” unnecessary. And lastly, the word “count” can also mean: to vote, decide, like throwing a pebble into a jar for casting your vote.

    Therefore Rev. 13:18 could read:
    Let him that has understanding VOTE concerning the MULTITUDE of the beast: for it is the MULTITUDE of ADAMIC MAN; and ITS MULTITUDE goes in the name of Allah with X — crossed swords.

    As an aside, did you know the overspreading of abominations in Daniel 9:27 also means “at the edge of a foundation”, skirting the edge? The Islamic Dome of the Rock stands at the edge of Solomon’s temple in the courtyard of the gentiles, it stands like a wing at the edge of the foundation, and it will stand there, according to Daniel, until the very end, or consummation.

    • hi Chris

      I agree. Good points. Islam is too big NOT to play a part in the end times. Traditional interpretations should make room for more accurate ones.

  27. Chris said “it stands like a wing at the edge of the foundation, ”

    Marianne,

    Is this what you were talking about regarding http://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/wings-and-sacrifices-of-the-temple/

  28. And if what Walid Shoebat states is correct, being that he was muslim and recognized the language as arabic and therefore translated it for us, then IF “the multitude of Islam is the Beast” then who is the false prophet?

    What role does the Catholic church play (they changed dates, times and laws)?

    And what role does Obama play being that he is indeed Muslim?

    Among many things, he has done away with the national day of prayer within the White House so as not to offend non-christians but replaced it with celebrating the Muslim Holy Days such as Ramadan-evidently he didn’t care that this would be offensive to christians in a christian nation no less.

    As Chris wrote, I am Just curious if this applies to VOTING Obama into office,

    “Therefore Rev. 13:18 could read:
    Let him that has understanding VOTE concerning the MULTITUDE of the beast:..”

    Did we “VOTE” this multitude into our country via Trojan Horse-Obama?!

  29. I have my moments…then they leave…LOL

  30. To the blog owner: I was looking for an interpretation of locusts in the bible and found this site. I believe you are correct – this agrees with what Ellis Skolfield and Walid Shoebat have written.
    I have been reading about end times for many years now on and off but I could never quite see proof for the 7 years tribulation (what about christians in the Roman empire and in Islamic times, wasn’t this tribulation?), and the beast being a revived Roman empire (would European rulers take the time from enjoying and increasing their wealth and power and finding time between mistresses and prostitutes to start a new religion to enslave the whole earth – when one already exists?). Some 18 months ago I started thinking that Islam must be mentioned in the Bible somewhere. After reading the first 2 sites below, it all fell into place, it’s a plain as day. I was shocked. Most people on this blog seem to realise a lot of this as Islam is not just a religion, its a total religious, economic, legal, social and political system (Shariah law) which they intend to force on us all. The following web sites should be compulsory reading for the whole western world. Jihadists are simply emulating their founder and are supported at least silently by 99% of Islam regardless of what is said in English (this is just part of jihad).
    http://www.prophetofdoom.net
    http://www.ellisskolfield.com
    http://www.walidshoebat.com
    Ellis Skolfield’s online book “The False Prophet” demonstrates detailed to the year fulfilment of historical and present islam in the Bible which is difficult to refute. You will see what the abomination of desolation is, also the beast and the false prophet. I have purchased some 20 copies to share amongst my blue collar colleagues and most are simply amazed. It will prove that the God who is able to predict history in this way is the only true God.

    • dear Henry,

      You are 100% correct. Prepare for a 90 day shortage of food and water. I think we will be at war very soon with Iran or another Terrorist country.

    • By posting the above, I want to say that I am not fully committed to the veri chip being the “mark”. I think it will play a part but the best explanation I have heard thus far is the one from Walid Shoebat in that the “mark” also referred to as a “badge of servitude” related to Islam is highly probable as well.

  31. consider this – 15 years ago, computers were for rich people – the super elite – now there’s one in every house – sometimes 2 – in my case 4… what if your computer is the mark?

  32. hi JD

    The mark is to be placed on the forehead or hand. So you see the computer might be a part of it, and play a role, but not be the mark itself.

  33. however, we spend the majority of our days with our right hands on some form of technology – not just the computer, but cell phones, ipods, etc, etc – it could be a mark cleverly disguised – and its only us who chooses to pick it up on a daily basis

  34. wow, you really are great – I definitely expected to come back here with more arguments, but you actually considered it (because seriously it can’t be discounted) – the more I think about it the more it makes me nervous – currently in society its nearly impossible to get by without these things – “THEY” have made it so. I can’t think of anything else that so readily reaches the masses – and no one can argue that the internet has helped to perpetuate evil more than good (search for pretty much anything and you get half a dozen porn pages) – lets consider for a moment we’re being tested, as I said, on a daily basis – don’t answer the phone – don’t type an email – don’t go near your favorite pogo game… what if the “true” mark is something just as permeating as the internet/technology has been – how would we know it – and how exactly would we get around it? How many of you are willing to turn in all of your gadgets?

    I guess my real question is … if we’re tricked into accepting the mark, is there forgiveness? is there salvation? if we live all our lives in the way God intended, but we are fallible humans.. can he really punish us for something we didn’t … realize?

  35. my thinking goes along the lines of ok… God doesn’t really use trickery and metaphors – he tries to be straightforward – But Satan is tricky, and isn’t ignorant to the book of Revelations – he’s going to try to disguise his mark as best as he can

    • JD
      If I might chime in here, I have had this discussion many times with people on the mark. alot of people seem to think the mark is some work that we do, which there clearly is some physical marking, but it is firstly a denial of the divinity of Jesus, therefore a belief and not a work. Denying Christ’s divinity is akin to not being a christian. therefore there is no forgiveness. This is also why I do not believe the mark will be the seventh vs. first day sabbath. whether that mark we accept is a chip implant, cellphone, etc. I do not know.

      • correctly translated “in” the forehead – your brain or what you believe
        in your right hand – euphemism for doing the work for…as in with child giving suck is a euphemism for doing the work for antichrist.

        :

        It does not matter after Jesus died on the cross whether we have Kenite or Adamic blood. John 3:16 says “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in hom should not perish, but have everlasting life.” All the races have mixed and all are invited to have “everlasting life” …..IF…..they “believe.”

        The word “count” as it is used to count his number is only used in this place in the entire Bible. It is the Greek word #5585, psephizo, meaning, “to use pebbles in enumeration”. It comes from the base word #5586, psephos, meaning, “a pebble as worn smooth by handling while counting for a long period of time”. This is the “white stone” which is hidden manna, or hidden truth that only the elect can understand. Satan is called “Tyrus” in Ezekiel 28:2. Tyrus in Hebrew means “Rock”. Deuteronomy 32:31 states, “For their rock is not as our Rock”. Verse four of this chapter states, God is our Rock”. It leaves no doubt that the Kenites’ rock is Satan…our Rock is YHVH. Satan is their rock. His children are the stones or pebbles. We see now why the word “count with pebbles” is used. Where the children (pebbles) are, their father shall appear. You are told to count the number “666”…but this is only part of his number. His full number is the Greek word #5516, XES (chi xi stigma). The twenty second, fourteenth and an “obsolete” letter #4742, (as a cross) of the Greek alphabet, used as numbers, denote respectively 600, 60 and 6, or 666 as a numeral. You are not told about the so-called obsolete letter #4742, stigma, which means a “mark’ incised for recognition of ownership, a scar of service”. This information is withheld from you because it would identify the mark of Cain and his children the Kenites. Without this knowledge you would not be aware of the message contained in Revelation 2:9 ‘which says, “…them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are of the synagogue of Satan”. They claim to be God’s chosen people and that their Messiah (rock), wil1 soon return. If you listen to them, you will worship the antichrist. Remember, the stones were worn smooth from counting a long period of time…from Genesis to Revelation. Who is “666 stigma”? 11 Thessalonians 2:3-4 says, That man of sin. The son of perdition; who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he, as God, sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God”. That temple is at Jerusalem and that man who will sit in the temple saying he is YHVH is the antichrist.

    • Hey JD,

      It is my understanding that Revelations was “coded” per se so as to confuse not only the Roman government in John’s time but also satan.

  36. Great reading.

    My only concern about the Islamic ‘headband’ video with the mark is the original context of these words seem to infer to engraved/punctured markings in the forehead and/or right hand, similar to the cruxifiction of Christ. Headbands aren’t really inscribed into the skin. Using the computer with the right hand doesn’t inscribe anything into the skin either.

    Not only that, marks and tattoos have been used to identify criminals all the way through history.

    Here’s something:

    In Acts 28, Paul has the hanging viper from his hand, and the Islanders immediately think he is a criminal …. but he shakes the viper/serpent from his hand and the people thereafter think he is a God. I wonder if the thing hanging off of Paul’s hand also confers to the mark in some way? If so, it suggests to me that we have no worries of receiving this mark, we can shake it off and other scriptures state we will overcome the antichrist/serpent etc in the last days. I also think this reflects the good news of the gospel. Cheers

  37. This discussion makes me want to learn ancient Hebrew and Greek.

    Over the past few days I have been thinking about when The image of the best was given power to kill people who would not worship the image.

    rev 13:15

    And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

    an image, figure, likeness

    I wonder if this could be referring to robots/computer’s …could be even clones but the technology is close to doing just that. we are really close to the technology…

    • hi Byron

      Maybe it’s a hologram.

      • How can a hologram kill people?

        • the hologram , or image, is not the one that causes people to be killed, it is the false prophet, who promotes the beast and his image.

          • KINGDOMS THAT CONTROLLED JERUSALEM are the ones that kill people…they killed Jesus and the prophets. Antichrist will be the SEVENTH and the EIGHTH who will control Jerusalem.

            Verse 10. Listen carefully. “And there are seven kings, five are fallen; and one is, and the other is not yet come. And when he cometh, he must continue a short space.” You were given a great clue of wisdom through the book of Daniel because its an overlay of Revelation. And these beast nations, you had the head of gold, the brass, the iron and the clay and the ten toes of mingled iron and clay.
            NUMBER ONE Nebuchanezzar of Babylon was the golden head.
            NUMBER TWO Medio/Persia.
            NUMBER THREE Greece.
            NUMBER FOUR Rome – controlled Jerusalem during the time of Jesus – killed Jesus and the apostles
            NUMBER FIVE From the year 636 AD all the way up to the year of our Lord 1948 or 1967 the Mohamadans (Palestinians) occupied it
            NUMBER SIX “one is” This kingdom of the fig tree; both the good (Christians) figs and the evil (Kenites) figs conquered the Mohamadans. This is the Generation of the Fig Tree (today)

            NUMBER SEVEN “and the other is not yet come” Antichrist before the pit

            NUMBER EIGHT Verse eleven. “And the beast that was and is not” “even he is the eighth” “and goeth into perdition” “was” – Antichrist ruling Jerusalem
            “is not” – in the pit during millennium “even he is the eighth” – released from pit after millennium “and goeth into perdition”

          • unforgivable sin: If God’s elect do not allow the Holy spirit to speak through them when they are delivered up to the synagogues of Satan, it is UNFORGIVABLE.

            Pentecost according to the Strong’s Concordance means “the fiftieth day” the second of the three great Jewish feasts, celebrated at Jerusalem yearly, the seventh week after the Passover, in grateful recognition of the completed harvest.

            In the book of Acts, on Pentecost day in Jerusalem, Peter repeats the words from the Old Testament book of Joel concerning the last days when God says he is going to pour out his spirit on men and women, young and old. The elect will prophesy, see visions and dream dreams. On Pentecost day those present heard a rushing wind and saw tongues of fire ascended on the believers. Everyone present, who was from all nations of the world, understood clearly what was being said in their own language.

            God’s elect will allowing Holy Spirit to speak through them and that even the gainsayers will not be able to deny what they say. Those who are delivered up to speak are warned not to premeditate what they will say, but to allow the Holy Spirit to speak through them.

            And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: (Acts 2:17-18)

            And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven. Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language. And they were all amazed and marveled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galileans? And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born? (Acts 2:3-8)

            But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost. (Mark 13:11)

            But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name’s sake. And it shall turn to you for a testimony. Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist. (Luke 21:12-15)

            And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and unto magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say: For the Holy Ghost shall teach you in the same hour what ye ought to say. (Luke 12:11-12)

  38. The mark is to be sealed in your mind with the 6 seals so that you know antichrist comes before Jesus…do not be taken out of season. Remember the man with the ink horn sealed the “believers”. Satan was in the first earth age when he rebelled against YHVH, in this earth age when he beguiled or wholly seduced Eve in the garden, and will come again as antichrist at the 6th seal, 6th trump, and 6th vile. ..thus 666. God’s word is so simple that even a first grader can understand it.

  39. The word “count” as it is used to count his number is only used in this place in the entire Bible. It is the Greek word #5585, psephizo, meaning, “to use pebbles in enumeration”. It comes from the base word #5586, psephos, meaning, “a pebble as worn smooth by handling while counting for a long period of time”. This is the “white stone” which is hidden manna, or hidden truth that only the elect can understand. Satan is called “Tyrus” in Ezekiel 28:2. Tyrus in Hebrew means “Rock”. Deuteronomy 32:31 states, “For their rock is not as our Rock”. Verse four of this chapter states, God is our Rock”. It leaves no doubt that the Kenites’ rock is Satan…our Rock is YHVH. Satan is their rock. His children are the stones or pebbles. We see now why the word “count with pebbles” is used. Where the children (pebbles) are, their father shall appear. You are told to count the number “666”…but this is only part of his number. His full number is the Greek word #5516, XES (chi xi stigma). The twenty second, fourteenth and an “obsolete” letter #4742, (as a cross) of the Greek alphabet, used as numbers, denote respectively 600, 60 and 6, or 666 as a numeral. You are not told about the so-called obsolete letter #4742, stigma, which means a “mark’ incised for recognition of ownership, a scar of service”. This information is withheld from you because it would identify the mark of Cain and his children the Kenites. Without this knowledge you would not be aware of the message contained in Revelation 2:9 ‘which says, “…them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are of the synagogue of Satan”. They claim to be God’s chosen people and that their Messiah (rock), wil1 soon return. If you listen to them, you will worship the antichrist. Remember, the stones were worn smooth from counting a long period of time…from Genesis to Revelation. Who is “666 stigma”? 11 Thessalonians 2:3-4 says, That man of sin. The son of perdition; who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he, as God, sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God”. That temple is at Jerusalem and that man who will sit in the temple saying he is YHVH is the antichrist.

    • Carolyn
      How are people to know if they are descendents of Cain? What about those who are both, they have the blood of cain and seth?

      • dru2:

        It does not matter after Jesus died on the cross whether we have Kenite or Adamic blood. John 3:16 says “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in hom should not perish, but have everlasting life.” All the races have mixed and all are invited to have “everlasting life” …..IF…..they “believe.”

        The word “count” as it is used to count his number is only used in this place in the entire Bible. It is the Greek word #5585, psephizo, meaning, “to use pebbles in enumeration”. It comes from the base word #5586, psephos, meaning, “a pebble as worn smooth by handling while counting for a long period of time”. This is the “white stone” which is hidden manna, or hidden truth that only the elect can understand. Satan is called “Tyrus” in Ezekiel 28:2. Tyrus in Hebrew means “Rock”. Deuteronomy 32:31 states, “For their rock is not as our Rock”. Verse four of this chapter states, God is our Rock”. It leaves no doubt that the Kenites’ rock is Satan…our Rock is YHVH. Satan is their rock. His children are the stones or pebbles. We see now why the word “count with pebbles” is used. Where the children (pebbles) are, their father shall appear. You are told to count the number “666”…but this is only part of his number. His full number is the Greek word #5516, XES (chi xi stigma). The twenty second, fourteenth and an “obsolete” letter #4742, (as a cross) of the Greek alphabet, used as numbers, denote respectively 600, 60 and 6, or 666 as a numeral. You are not told about the so-called obsolete letter #4742, stigma, which means a “mark’ incised for recognition of ownership, a scar of service”. This information is withheld from you because it would identify the mark of Cain and his children the Kenites. Without this knowledge you would not be aware of the message contained in Revelation 2:9 ‘which says, “…them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are of the synagogue of Satan”. They claim to be God’s chosen people and that their Messiah (rock), wil1 soon return. If you listen to them, you will worship the antichrist. Remember, the stones were worn smooth from counting a long period of time…from Genesis to Revelation. Who is “666 stigma”? 11 Thessalonians 2:3-4 says, That man of sin. The son of perdition; who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he, as God, sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God”. That temple is at Jerusalem and that man who will sit in the temple saying he is YHVH is the antichrist.

  40. The original text did *not* indicate 616. The 616 was either a copyist error or it was done on purpose. How do we *know* that 666 is the correct number and and that 616 is incorrect? Church history.

    John, who wrote the Revelation, had a direct disciple named Polycarp (he was the bishop of the church of Smyrna at the time the book of Revelation was written). Polycarp’s direct disciple was Irenaeus who warned the church not to deviate *at all* from what the apostles handed down.

    Irenaeus wrote about this heresy in his writings “Against Heresies”. Again, this is coming from an extremely reliable source in a direct line from the apostles:

    John the Apostle who wrote down the Revelation> to Polycarp>to Irenaeus.

    Also, Irenaeus gave examples of how to calculate the name…which added up to 666, not 616. Ireanaeus said many names would add up to this number but this was given to us so that when the actual time of the anti-christ came and everything was pointing to this man, this calculation of the name to 666 was another way to be sure.

    616 was a known heresy in the very earliest church history. We see just how early this heresy came about…Polycarp was appointed bishop of the church of Smyrna before the Revelation was written and was Bishop there when it was written. Smyrna was one of the only two churches of Revelation not to receive a rebuke. The Revelation and the number 666 was written while Polycarp was still pastoring the church of Smyrna. This is EARLY. Ireanaeus was taught BY Polycarp who received no rebuke. Polycarpbs church at Smyrna receiving no rebuke from the Lord Jesus is HIGH qualification for Polycarp…who was martyred…as was his disciple Irenaeus who wrote against 616.

    Blessings

  41. In Jeremiah the prophet’s day, God told Jeremiah in Jeremiah 35:1 to “go unto the house of the Rechabites, and speak unto them, and bring them into the house of the Lord, into one of the chambers, and give them wine to drink.” Two things to notice here; one is that these Kenites are called Rechabites, the same name that they called themselves, in I Chronicles 2:55 , as being “Kenites of the house of Rechab”. They are not of Abraham in any manner, except for the fact that they had taken over the duties of the Levitical priests and scribes. These Kenites had been instructed by their father Rechab as to what they could do, and what they could not do, and it is interesting that they obeyed their father’s instructions to the letter.

    Note also that in verse three (3) there is another “Jeremiah” given, only this Jeremiah is not the prophet, but a Kenite, of the house of Rechab. We know this by his father’s name, just as later in the chapter we see the name Zedekiah also that was a Kenite. However remember that these Kenites had been living for the past four hundred years prior to this time in the land of the Israelites, since they had entered into Judah to build the Temple under Solomon. When Solomon died, the kingdom of Israel was split into two separate nations, The House of Judah, and the House of Israel. Then through the marriage between the King Earbaal of Hameth, and King Omri of Israel , the nations were bound together through marriage. Queen Jezebel, the wife of Ahab brought in her four hundred priests of Baal, and all the troubles of Israel continued downhill, until the time that this nation Israel was scattered around the world.

    These Kenite men were the sons of Jonadab, the son of Rechab, and these Kenites had received a separate set of instructions, dos and don’t that they must
    follow. Today we know those set of instructions as the Talmud, for this set of their laws are not the Torah or the Bible as we know it today. When you go to the law library and see the size of the number of books comprising this set of instruction, it becomes obvious that it is quite vast with its many books.

    However God told Jeremiah that because these Rechabites had followed the letter of their law that their father gave them, they would receive a promise from God. Jeremiah 35:18, 19 “Thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; `Because ye have obeyed the commandment of Jonadab your father, and kept all his precepts, and done according unto all that he hath commanded you:” [18] “Therefore thus saith the Lord of hosts the God of Israel; Jonadab the son of Rechab shall not want a man to stand before Me for ever.” [19]

    Today they rule God’s children through the four hidden dynasties of religion, politics, economy, and education. No blood test needed…The blood of Jesus will save whosoever will come…even Kenites.

  42. Chronicles 2:55 “And the families of the scribes which dwelt at Jabez; the Tirathites, the Shimeathites, and Schuathites. These are the Kenites that came of Hamath, the father of the house of Rechab.”

  43. Christians who are deceived by the false teachings of the Kenites through the four hidden dynasties will receive the mark of the beast. The Kenites are teaching false doctrine and preparing the world for a one world religious beast system and a one world political beast system. These beast systems are offices held by Satan himself . He was in the first earth age before he fell…he was in the garden in this earth age…he will come as antichrist, go into the pit, come out for a little season and then go inito perdition. Watch who controlls Jerusalem…we are watchmen.

  44. No, they are their own race from the house of Rechab. Please note that Cain is not listed in Adam’s geneology in Genesis 5. The only genealogies listed here are those of Jesus Christ Himself. Cain’s genealogy is in Genesis 4:16-24.

    The disciples are asking Christ to explain the Parable of the Tares; Matthew 13:36 KJV reads:

    “Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, ‘Declare unto us the parAbel of the tares of the field.’”

    Jesus responds in Matthew 13:37 KJV:

    “He answered and said unto them, ‘He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man.’”

    Jesus tells them that He is responsible for sowing the good seed. Matthew 13:38 KJV says that with the exception of the tares, His seed produces all the children of the world:

    “The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one.”

    Satan’s seed brought forth the Tares…the Kenites. The devil being Satan, Matthew 13:39 KJV teaches you that they began with his seed:

    “The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.”

    Teaching in parables, Christ, Himself, explains the origin of the bad seed to His disciples. Satan’s seed produced Cain, the beginning of the Kenite family tree. The Kenite Priests were Jews by residence only, and they are responsible for the death of Christ. He is speaking to them in John 8:43 KJV:

    “Why do ye not understand my speech? Even because ye cannot hear my word.”

    Throughout this chapter, the priests attempt to convince others that Christ is not the Son of God. He puts them in their place in John 8:44 KJV:

    “Ye are of your father, the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.”

    In a “straight forward” manner, Jesus tells them who they are. Sternly and directly, He tells them that they are the offspring of Satan; “The lust of your father you will do,” says Christ. Reminding them that Cain was the first murderer, you see that their bloodline is spoiled by the one who started it — Satan!

    The Kenites remain hidden from the world by passing themselves off as Jews; you observe Christ driving this point home in Rev. 2:9 KJV:

    “I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.”

    Judah gets blamed for most everything the Kenites do, and here Christ tells them straight-out: “You do not speak the truth when you claim to be Jews.” Christ reinforces this point in Rev. 3:9 KJV:

    “Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.”

    The Kenites are liars and Christ wants you to know that Satan’s bloodline is not to be accommodated. When Jesus returns, they will kneel before your feet as they find you kneeling before the feet of Christ. As certain as Satan’s children began in the Garden of Eden, they are amongst you today. As Satan attempts to take the place of Christ, his children remain hidden by passing themselves off as Jews. You are to leave them alone; knowing whom they are will suffice because the Angels are instructed to take care of them when Christ returns for the harvest. Cain not being included in Adam’s genealogy makes perfect sense because the bible makes it clear that Adam is not his father. Cain is the Serpent’s seed and the Kenites are his followers who will prepare the world for the antichrist and will receive the mark of the beast..

  45. Dear Brothers and Sisters — we need to quit trying to figure out who Anti-christ is. It is so simple it goes completely over our head. Anybody – any person – that does not have a “Born again Experience” and filled with GOD= the Holy Spirit are living in a anti-christ lifestyle. They are serving the Beast within the carnal flesh and their own Human spirit and not God neither do they know the “Will of God” and they live in darkness. That is an anti-christ. If you die without Jesus Christ living in you – you going to a place where all people have the “Mark of the Beast”.
    The Church’s of today has got everybody looking into the future for a satan man to come on the planet and decieve everyone by force. That is not it. Mankind freely serves the “Tree of Life or the “Tree of Death”.
    Satan the Serpent is within every sinner and eating from the Tree of death — Jesus Christ and everyone that has the HOLY SPIRIT is a Christ child eating from the Tree of Eternal Life. So please look within yourself and say — am I serving the Word or the World — Serving the Holy Spirit and will of God. or Serving Sin and doubt and serving the World.
    Love you all – Lord bless you – Bro. York

  46. The “born again experience” is not baptised with water…it is to be born from above through the water bag of woman…not to come to earth as the fallen angels did…they left their heavenly estate and came to earth to seduce women and caused hybrids to be born. The are held in chains…see Jude…and will be destroyed with Satan at the second advent. WE are born from above…which some confuse and call it the “born again experience” which the think is what Tom was talking about in the above post. Tom you are born again but you were born again through the water bag of your mother. You did not leave your first estate, which is heaven, like the fallen angels. Born again in the Hebrew is really BORN FROM ABOVE.

    • hi Carolyn

      I do not understand what you mean about the bag of a woman.

      Being born again is not a physical experience.

      It is a spiritual one, AFTER we are born the first time, in a natural way.

      Hence, the use of the word ” born again.”

      We are not born two times (or multiple times) through the bag of a woman.

  47. http://www.americanwisdomseries.com is a great website. Check it out.

  48. You were created in heaven and lived with God who created you. At that time you had your spirit body. There were other creations there with you. You chose to be “born from above” through the bag of water that breaks at birth in order to enter this flesh age. The fallen angels did not chose to be “born from above” through the woman’s bag of water that breaks at birth. The left their first estate called heaven and came to earth without being born of woman. In order to enter heaven again when we die, Jesus said we have to be “born from above” into this earth age. The fallen angels are held in chains until their time of destruction…see Jude. We are sent to earth to offer those who followed Satan at the Katabole a chance to choose YHVH in this earth age. If they choose YHVH they can be saved. Please listen to
    http://youtu.be/aBRW1FLL2K0 … this will explain all about the fallen angels who were not “born from above”. Their sin was fornication with flesh women. The produced hybrids…this is why God wanted all the Canaanites, Amorites, Hittites, Jebusites, Hivites, Perizzites and Girgashites killed…they were hybrids. God wants kind after kind.

    • carolyn

      We seem to have different definitions.

      To me, there is a difference between being created and being born, and being born again.

      To create means make out of nothing…which is the case of heavenly beings like angels.

      To b born means to be formed out of human egg and sperm, out of natural materials.

      So if an angel has been created in heaven, then he just exists. he is not born.

      The exception to this was Jesus, who already pre-existed in heaven but became flesh later, being born as a human baby.

      When Jesus was born as a human, he was “born”, not born “again,” or an extra time. He was born for the first time.

      To be “born again” does not refer to this human birth. It is a spiritual change in a human’s life.

      “Born” for the first time means taking on a human form through conception in a woman’s body.

      “Born again” is a spiritual change that occurs in a person’s heart and spirit, where they reject and repent of their sins, and take on the character of God, made possible by Jesus’s sacrifice on the cross.

  49. mark of the bease tape 1 http://youtu.be/aBRW1FLL2K0
    mark of the beast tape 2 http://youtu.be/m_0PqtP-wUc
    mark of the bease tape 3 http://youtu.be/qZb-zNZuuuA
    mark of the beast tape 4 http://youtu.be/P_Ez3UlLZlM
    mark of the beast tape 5 http://youtu.be/sFPE-OocwYY
    mark of the beast tape 6 http://youtu.be/sHvnMRzMQ0Y
    mark of the beast tape 7 http://youtu.be/6skj8H9VEVE
    mark of the beast tape 8 http://youtu.be/zdV3oo3eFiE

  50. Three world ages tape 1 http://youtu.be/uGCkjdDimlk
    Three world ages tape 2 http://youtu.be/UIJywMSW19Q
    Three world ages tape 3 http://youtu.be/AWNy9rgUWas
    Three world ages tape 4 http://youtu.be/QJPRbWAMDok
    Three world ages tape 5 http://youtu.be/RtcDYLjgjFs
    Three world ages tape 6 http://youtu.be/7deL-lhLqDc
    Three world ages tape 7 http://youtu.be/3ktlwRuI8Ys
    Three world ages tape 8 http://youtu.be/SOclBQC_krA

  51. Identifying antichrist part 1 http://youtu.be/QD1FzUxVpZY
    Identifying antichrist part 2 http://youtu.be/k_TlhfxPskg
    Identifying antichrist part 3 http://youtu.be/NJfT66EwwGk
    Identifying antichrist part 4 http://youtu.be/KAnfsUcRPdg
    Identifying antichrist part 5 http://youtu.be/6fuP27yaOsg

  52. http://youtu.be/keRAiALuCuU We will be delivered up to the antichrist during the tribulation for the Holy Spirit to speak through us to preach the gospel to the nations…not to allow the Holy spirit to speak through you is the unforgivable siin. Please Listen to this…it proves there is no repture.

  53. Noticed a Carolyn and a Carolyn Laney Jackson commented here. Wanted to say neither are Internet Elias (Carolyn).

  54. havent read all the comments buut………the only religion i know that uses a cross is certain groups of christianity stemming from early catholicism,they baptise babies with a cross of water on the forehead, (water- fish-hook?) the bishops also wear the hats of dagon (fish god)…just one more unrelated point….i watched a programme about the antichrist the other day stating the ‘trinity’ of thedevil/antichrist/false prophet….. is that not what the catholic church preaches a holy trinity…they are the only ones i know to wear out the saints (halos of jupiter behind saintly figures) think the bible also says they will bring signs/miracles…..again they tend to have alot of people who ‘manifest’ the marks of christ,(punctures pierces to the skin?) saints etc….
    harlot??? the holy mary possibly?
    and yes i agree there is no rapture……another catholic myth!

    • hi Jay

      it is possible that the T- I – C has something to do with christianity as well, as you say. The beast may be associated with a false church, symbolized by the cross.

    • Can’t see the forest through the trees. When I was young, both in the body as well as in the spirit, I was blown about by every wind of doctrine. I have found that to understand anything take not only years of study and discipline but also real life experience. The matter being discussed here is meat, red meat no less, that simply cannot be ingested by babes in the faith. As I read through these posts, the mental image that emerges in my mine is of a room full of school children. Full of pride and smiles having received their little stars for successfully leaning to add single digit numbers, they gather around an important looking stack of papers. As the children pour over the strange writings they each create stories and fantasies to explain the unusual symbols and what they must mean. As entertaining as it may be, the imaginations of these children will never accurately decipher this physicist’s thesis on quantum mechanics. I have learned through experience that there is little I could say that will help you on your road to discover, many things you must learn will only manifest themselves through trial and adversity. In time you learn discernment and with that discernment you will be able to weed through the flood of garbage that is ever present where the minds of men gather. If you have ears to hear what this old man would say, then speak at length on these matters I would. But recognizing the impatience of youth I will only ask this. That you would step back for a moment and look with your eyes. See the Catholic Church. Look I say, and see with the eyes that God has given you. See the saints feeding the homeless. See the hospitals, the orphanages, the missions all around the world whose WORKS show forth the love and testimony of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Under great persecution they shrink back not, though in many nations even today it cost them their lives. See who is it that stands in the face of this world’s leader to defend the family, who will not bow down to homosexuality and abortion. So again I ask once more, see with your own eyes, now tell me do you really see the priest the nuns the missionaries the doctors the nurses and the laymen of the Church putting a sword to your throat and demanding that you bow and worship or die at their hands? It is said that the Beast makes war with, wears out and overcomes the saints. Seriously who best represents the saints in our world today?
      A house divided cannot stand.
      Cursed is he that sows discord among the brethren.

      May God keep you and bless you.

      FYI Catholics don’t believe in or promote the “rapture” doctrine, most don’t even have a clue to what it is.

      • dear Edward

        I want to assure you that this blog is devoted to the Word of God, and the heart of Jesus, and I make efforts to keep extreme viewpoints from taking over.

        While I get an occasional person who might blame the ills of the world on the catholic church, there are other who are here who are Catholic and defend their ways, as you have.

        There are also entire posts on the ills unique to the Protestant churches, and this is for teaching and illumination, not condemnation.

        There have been problems in all churches, and all denominations. What Jesus is looking for is a pure and spotless bride that he can take to heaven.

        I agree with you that we should all love each other, and unite together in faith, because the enemy is out there to devour all of us.

      • To Edward

        A house divided cannot stand

        AMEN!!!

        … satan don’t even bother dividing the ishmaelites (Sons of Hagar).

        A letter from James
        ” Brothers and sisters, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against a brother or sister or judges them speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it. There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the one who is able to save and destroy. But you—who are you to judge your neighbor? ”

        A letter from jude
        “But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”. Yet these people slander whatever they do not understand, and the very things they do understand by instinct—as irrational animals do—will destroy them”

        A letter from John
        “Anyone who claims to be in the light but hates a brother or sister is still in the darkness. Anyone who loves their brother and sister lives in the light, and there is nothing in them to make them stumble. But anyone who hates a brother or sister is in the darkness and walks around in the darkness. They do not know where they are going, because the darkness has blinded them.”

        A letter from peter
        “It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them.”

        It is more fruitful for satan to divide the church founded by Christ.

        • Yes homo2fistulam — Let us remember that if you Love someone. Love is Corrective – Love is the right justice. Love is the “Hidden” mystery of what the 10 commandments taught us. How can you love people when you see their pain is caused by some sin or attitude problem and then not tell them their attidote is doing the will of God.
          If we would all Love like Jesus – lay down our life for our friends. Jesus alwasys corrected the errors. Cause He was Truth. And truth sets you free indeed.
          Lord bless you dear brother – Good post – Shalom

          • Ah yes love … would you be willing to give up your graces and go to hell, so that a muslim may enter heaven?

            Yes or No?

            • homo2fistulam -
              Yea I think that all True believers would want to die for others. No matter what the nationality of a person would be. The Spirit is willing but the flesh is weak also. No Greater Love hath a man than He would lay down his life for a FRIEND . So lets get a little more deeper on the subject.
              When Jesus died He died for the Whole world amen. But God being God HE Knows ALL things. He knew that all men would not “Come to Him” or He isn’t God the Alpha and Omega. Amen
              He Died for His BRIDE and all that HE KNEW would come to him. He said you are my friend if you keep my commandments. Yes He died for all. But He knew who would love him and who would not.
              So we have to have the same kind of love. By dying for someone that is a heathen. The Righteous will pick that up and give their hearts to Jesus Christ for HIM Loving them. The unbelievers dont even care.
              But its a Great, Great humbling act of Gods mercy – That Jesus thought us to be worthy to die for. Then we should think the same way about all men. Not just muslim or american amen. God bless you brother.

              • I admire your courage and your faith … He who cling to his life loses it; but if he give up his life for “HIM”, will find it. … a wise decision indeed. :- o

                Why was the question raised? … it is like this … we christian was delivered to Christ because of the Father… only we are near to the Father through Christ, it is through Christ that we have been delivered to the Father

                … it is meaningful enough that “they” be delivered to Christ through us.

                This is to express our love for them that they may not perish from the lack of knowledge of Christ.

  55. Isn’t the year 666 AD Muhammad’s gift to the world called moon god worship, or Islam? It could be Islam is the forth horse as it’s color is green, and it’s rider is death. Notice Islam loves death more than life.

    The world system is giving power to an Islamic economic block. See how Egypt, Lybia, and now Syria is going? That which rules the world system is giving power a different group. America is part of this world system, and Carrier groups are on both side of Syria now. Air cover soon?

  56. ic xc

    the letters above christs head in inconography, an icon or mark.

    the letters i,c,x the first three have marks above them signifying divinity or holiness.

    There you have it iota = 10 sigma = 6 and chi = 600

  57. forest for the trees??? really?
    i am not a ‘school child’, your comments are insulting, i am a fully grown adult and have studied ALL religions, i am well educated having studied at undergraduate and post graduate level, i am well versed and well educated in education AND in life and have faced many adversities which i wnt discuss here! as for you comment on quantum mechanics, i wrote a paper on it in college looooong before it even came to public attention!
    see the homes, hospitals etc??? yes the world now sees the child abuse that went on all those years and yes the catholic church did put the sword to peoples throats during the crusades and during the times it invaded countries all over the world and converted them all or havent you studied history?
    your comments are rather hypocritical edward and homo2fistulam about judging considering your judging my opinions? they are my opinions and im entitled to them, only god knows the truth or have you forgotten that? maybe you should search your heart for the truth as i have!
    you also have priests called ‘father’ there is only 1 father… that which is in heaven!…whats the saying…”take the plank of wood out your own eye before attempting to take the splinter out of anothers!”
    oh and another thing no where in my previous post did i mention ‘hate’ of the catholic church, i simply put across a view point, something to consider, but it is clear you think any view against the catholic church is hate, how sad!
    let us not forget true christianity was corrupted when constantine decided to adopt it and mix it with romes pagan religion…would you like me to discuss that in depth? cos i sure can!
    you mention homosexuality, doesnt the catholic church host most of them?
    you all mention love… all i see is hate for muslims, hate for homosexuals..i could go on… heres a question…… if homosexuality is such a sin, why did god create them? are you going to tell me the devil did? if so why are they all in your church hmm?
    ill tell you why god created such diversity in religion, sexuality, colour…. because hes trying to teach us to love all!!!! love thy neighbour, love thine enemy….love love love….clearly by your posts you dont love anyone who expresses a view against the catholic church!
    ill tell you what life has taught me since i have friends who are all colours, religions and sexualities…. none of these things make a person evil, what is in their heart does! no doubt this will fall on deaf ears… there is good and bad in every colour, religion, sexuality, profession including the church!
    stop psychologically projecting your own inadequacies onto others and you might actually grow in life and love.
    i also want to ask the catholic church… jesus was put on the cross, given god intended it, but it was an awful reflection of the world… why would any church glorify the cruxifiction by putting symbols of it all over the place????

    sorry marianne but i felt this post needed expressing considering im being told i cant see the forest for the trees when others appear to not have gotten past the grass before the forest!
    lots of love! x

  58. oh and another thing edward…. for all your hypocritical comments on school children…. didnt god love all children… werent they his world… didnt he becon them all to him???
    yet you sit here and condescend all the children of god?…. making out they are stupid, unversed and only an old mind has wisdom…..maybe you should listen more to the ‘children of god’ and read the bible more deeply, learn a bit more about history… in fact in a word…learn more about the forest before you comment on the trees!!!!!!

  59. Ah yes love … would you be willing to give up your graces and go to hell, so that a muslim may enter heaven?

    Yes or No?

    Like Jesus would use a question to answer a question – I ask you would a muslim go to hell and give up his graces for a Christian -

    • we have to ask a muslim about that … our tenents of faith is to die for others, their tenents of faith is to die with others

    • That doesn’t make sense to me as I have met some Muslims who are more righteous than some Christians I know… There is a verse in the bible stating when the time comes n we see others entering heaven in front of us and ask why, I don’t think it mentions religious belief, it seems more around our life’s actions. I think it’s a silly question considering god decides who enters his kingdom, if god decides they’re to die they will regardless of our intervention n if in doing so he decides it’s our time so be it.
      Jesus always spoke in parables, the hidden lesson, bit like the ‘as one door closes another opens’ lesson, the message is hidden til u open the other door then u get it!

      • If I gave up my life for a Muslim n he wouldn’t do the same, isn’t that more a reflection of them than me?which god will judge when the time comes. My answer would be the same whatever religion, creed, sexuality etc they happened to be… As long as I know and god knows my heart is pure that’s all that matters surely

      • Righteousness – it is measured by GOD’s measuring stick, not man’s … GOD’s see all things hidden and sums it all up. On that final day … some will see their weight of righteousness not even able to lift a mustard seed on the other side of the scale.

  60. Jay commented to Tom York – Here is my reply Jay
    Jay said –That doesn’t make sense to me as I have met some Muslims who are more righteous than some Christians I know…
    ANSWER -WELL GOD DON’T BASE HOLINESS ON DOING JUST GOOD THINGS. HE BASES IT ON “HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS NOT OURS. That’s why He Died and Rose again – to give us the Holy Spirit – that will make you Holy and without it you will just be a good man AT BEST – And God is not looking for good men but Born Again Men and Women. Sons and Daughters.

    Jay said — There is a verse in the bible stating when the time comes we see others entering heaven in front of us and ask why,
    ANSWER = MATT 23:13,15 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
    MATT. 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, YE MAKE HIM TWOFOLD MORE THE CHILD OF HELL THAN YOURSELFS – God is not looking for a religion but for “Born Again” children of God – brand NEW CREATION’S –
    Religion is the problem today with Christianity, and all the rest of them. If you not Born Again you still lost in your sins whether you do -right things or not. Jesus would not of had to die if “Salvation” came by our own righteousness. Then HE NEED NOT DIE –

    Jay Said — I don’t think it mentions religious belief, it seems more around our life’s actions.
    ANSWER- Jesus said you have to believe HIS GOSPEL. That is a BELIEF. That’s true if you have the “HOLY SPIRIT” It changes your Character, and your Soul = passions – Your crossover into the “Spirit’ That will guide you to ALL TRUTH = Belief – nothing else on this planet can show you ALL TRUTH but the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is your “Lie detector” built right into your Heart

    Jay Said –I think it’s a silly question considering god decides who enters his kingdom, if god decides they’re to die they will regardless of our intervention n if in doing so he decides it’s our time so be it.
    ANSWER – Its called Gods Foreknowledge of what “you Jay” are going to do with your life. But you still have to have faith to do it. Faith is a Revealing of Truth. By the Holy Spirit. The Holy spirit should be the very first thing you seek for with all your heart.
    God wants you to serve HIM with your Free Will. Satan was created by mankinds free will. Even if you are predestinated – you have to have “faith” that you are a predestinated Seed of God to begin with. Cause Satan will try and tell you that you are not predestinated. But that is a lie if you will only believe God. They ask Jesus what “shall we do to inherit eternal life” Jesus said “Believe in whom HE sent” That’s it. He sent the Holy Spirit for you. Knowing that you was worth dying for my brother.

    Jay said – Jesus always spoke in parables, the hidden lesson, bit like the ‘as one door closes another opens’ lesson, the message is hidden til u open the other door then u get it!
    ANSWER – AMEN DEAR JAY – God is at the door in Revelation 3:20 asking you to come in unto him. Then Rev. 4:1-2 John was “caught up” into the Heavenlies. By going through the Door. That most ignore today. The replace it with religion. NOT GOOD –
    Last but not lest – The Lord just gave you some “Hidden Manna” Rev. 2:17. Eat and live dear friend. Get into the “Spirit” while you have time left to do it. Lord bless you Jay.

  61. homo2fistulam said … He who cling to his life loses it; but if he give up his life for “HIM”, will find it. … a wise decision indeed. :- o Why was the question raised? … it is like this … we christian was delivered to Christ because of the Father… only we are near to the Father through Christ, it is through Christ that we have been delivered to the Father … it is meaningful enough that “they” be delivered to Christ through us. This is to express our love for them that they may not perish from the lack of knowledge of Christ.

    Thank you Brother homo2 for you kind words to me — and I can say amen to the above post you wrote. Lord bless you

    • you’re welcome brother tom … anytime … faith is really amazing, the variation from person to person, is just mind boggling …

      btw … what is the name of your ministry?

  62. Praise God “homo 2″ you are right on the above – very interesting to get to know more brothers and sisters. My Ministry name is “Where Eagles Fly” My church is named – Messiah’s house – Only got a few people. And been on a break for the last few weeks. After teaching for about a year and half. I needed a little vacation to change some things around my property. But getting ready to start up again soon.
    But I’ve always like forums as well. – hope to talk to you soon again. Shalom

  63. I see … may the Holy Spirit guide your ministry … for me, my Faith to GOD is through the O.H.C.A. Church of the Latin Rite.

    I hope you enjoyed your vacation, there’s lot’s of work ahead for you … :- )

    … Pax Christi

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