Different levels of faith – where are you?
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There are different levels of faith during spiritual growth. Each one has a test….and with each successive higher level, there is less support from God….Finally God does nothing for us at all, and we suffer and lose the battle…..but do we still love him? Do we still trust in him?
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There are various levels of faith:
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1. Weak Faith – Everyone begins here. Weak faith considers circumstances. It constantly limits God and His benefits. Wrong teachings are an influence here. It cannot see the Spirit, the power of God, or that God can do all things.
2. Temporary Faith – As we grow stronger, we receive the Word of God for awhile, and believe, but then fail when tests come. (Luke 8:15)
3. Active Faith – Faith without works is dead (James 2:14-26) We need to do more than just believe, since even the demons believe and tremble. The apostles acted on their faith, preached the gospel, and did good works.
4. Strong faith – This is a faith that staggers not at God’s promises. One refuses defeat, and will not take no for an answer. The person speaks out loud to the devil, rebuking him, and releases God into action.
5. Great Faith – has a great expectation, that just hearing the word is enough for the request to be granted. As in the centurion, who said “you only need to speak the word, and my servant will be healed.” He did not even ask Jesus to come. His words were enough. (Matt 8:10)
6. Unfeigned faith –(genuine) – It knows no hypocrisy. It does not brag or put on a show. (2 Tim 1:5) Very childlike, trusting and innocent, and is well founded in the Word of God.
7. Perfect (divine) faith – Absolute confidence in God’s own Word and Being.
This will be tested with fiery trials.
While other levels of faith receive some support, and encouragement from God, this level takes what is learned from earlier levels, and endures to the end without apparent support.
Tribulation will come. Suffering will come.
Good works continue, in spite of persecutions.
We no longer care about our own needs. We forget who we are, and only desire to serve His purpose, and have His needs met.
Prayers are spoken, but there is no answer, yet one continues to hold on and believe.
There are wars, and one loses the war.
There is sickness, and there is no healing.
There are problems, and they are never resolved.
One does good, and it is called evil, and is punished for it.
One is faithful, and is betrayed by others.
One is generous, and loses everything.
One is alone, and no one comes to comfort.
One blesses, and is cursed and rejected in return.
One calls out to God, and does not receive an answer. One feels abandoned.
You are afflicted, but there is no deliverance.
Where are the promises, and the answers we have been waiting for?
But will that person respond by abandoning God?
This is the level of “the cross.”
There is no reward in this life at this point. Suffering seems to be around every corner. Will we endure to the end? Will we be faithful, without helps, and rewards, and interventions from God?
This is the point where we could lose our lives for the gospel.
Are we ready? Will we die for Him?
Is our love enough? Is our faith great enough? Have we died to ourselves yet, where HE is the only One that matters any more?
Have we forgotten who we are yet, and can only think of Him?
The faith God is looking for is NOT the faith that comes, because he helped us, or rewarded us, to encourage us.
The faith he is looking for is the faith that continues to trust and love, when God has seemed to turn away, and there is NO reward coming at all.
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Different levels of faith – where are you? « Heaven Awaits said this on November 28, 2008 at 9:16 pm |
Wow! You nailed that one good for sure,we must Trust Him in All things.
Love in Christ
hi pttyann
Hey, great to have you here.!!
blessings
marianne
This seems to be the way it is, Marianne. The warm fuzzies we so enjoyed earlier in our walk no longer occur. We learn that love is not a feeling, but is how we carry on under these later circumstances. It becomes a walk without any encouragement, with only what we learned about Him in our earlier walk to carry us onward. And we don’t even know what “onward” is.
We find ourselves unwelcomed by those still in the early stages of gaining faith. We seldom find another with whom we can talk openly, for they do not want to know the hard facts. While I have found a few who know these things, they are distant from me, so there is absolutely no face-to-face fellowship. It is a very lonely walk, and the still small voice of the enemy has much to say to try to turn us away from following a seemingly distant God. It becomes a constant battle in the mind to not be convinced we are not loved by our God.
I suspect many are coming into this place, and the word must be got out for them to understand this is normal. This, so they don’t have to spend much time wondering if they have been abandoned by God. …DavWms
Hi David,
I once had a thought when I was about 17 years old. I had just read the book of revelation. I decided that if a person really went through a terrible tribulation in their life, that they would not have to experience the Great Tribulation to come. After a lifetime later, I still believe this.
Level 7 above is the only way to achieve this. We all need to get to this level of experience, not for our own glory, but for our own spiritual survival.
blessings
marianne
that was great encouragment! u are a great preacher.
Marianne: i thought i rated in another category, but apparently not, i rate in number 7. With some missing of course! But nice to know that i made it!!!
thanks for this!
Hi Ani
Welcome to the twilight zone (level 7). It feels like that sometimes, since everything keeps going wrong, and the divine purpose may be hidden from us.
blessings
marianne
I am not yet at “the highest” Level, maybe 3 or 4 (?)..
Why does Yahweh not anymore speak to one at Level 7?
Why do you loose this such important connection than?
That is so sad!!
Hi Silvanus,
I think what you said applies to most people. Remember Jesus was a “7.” WHen he hung on the cross, he felt abandoned by the Father God. The connection was there, but it was unspoken, and the evidence looked the opposite from what was true. Yahweh did not speak to Jesus while he was on the cross.
But, at the point of total desolation, pain and agony, with NO deliverance from the cross, Jesus was at his closest point to heaven. Jesus said to pick up our cross and follow him.
When we have completely abandoned this world, to follow Jesus, and obey God, then we will feel the pain of this world hurting us, but we have reached heaven with our sacrifice of self. Yahweh may or may not speak, but he is close to us.
blessings
marianne
Is faith in the unseen illogical and unscientific?
perfecionist gal
Faith is the evidence of things not seen. It proves itself. This may seem illogical and unscientific to some, but when it proves itself, then it is logical.
After all there is no difficulty in our understanding the nature even without the unification of these forces. When it goes by a definition “faith”, it’s arguably illogical and it’s definitely unscientific.
Faith is not supposed to be blind and illogical. If you know someone for a long time, and they are good to you, you have faith in that person. So if they tell you a story, you trust them, and believe them, because they have always been trustworthy before. This is logical.
If someone you do not know tells you a story, you do not know if they are telling the truth, because you have no history with them. You do not know if they are an honest person or not. So, if you trusted them, it would be blind faith, and this wold be illogical, because you have no reason to believe them to be true.
It is the same way with God. He has always been honest and true. He keeps his promises. He is good to us and blesses us. He never lies. So, to believe him when he tells you something is logical, because you know him to be true.
Well, I don’t know where to find the answer since it’s
the bottom of the question. But I think it’s still a
valid way of knowing. Knowledge based on faith beliefs
cannot be “proved” scientifically or logically.
Some people rely on faith more than others to “know”
things and some people disregard faith as a
legitimate way of knowing.
Where are you getting this from? There is no mention of levels of faith in the Bible.
The Bible does not teach people to rebuke the Devil personally. You are to resist the Devil and he will flee. If you were wise you would state “The Lord Rebuke You” and not of your own accord.
James 4:7,8 NIV
Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
Jude 1:8-10 NIV
In the very same way, these dreamers pollute their own bodies, reject authority and slander celestial beings. 9But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, “The Lord rebuke you!” 10Yet these men speak abusively against whatever they do not understand; and what things they do understand by instinct, like unreasoning animals—these are the very things that destroy them.
If you read the Psalms they don’t jive with what you are teaching here.
I would say from experience that as you mature as a Christian you should feel closer to God in spite of your circumstances. There are good times and bad times. To say that God stops delivering you at some point is false.
For a good look at suffering and faith read the book of Job.
Also, consider the life of Paul in the New Testament.
Psalm 34:17 NIV
The righteous cry out, and the LORD hears them;
he delivers them from all their troubles.
Psalm 34:19 NIV
A righteous man may have many troubles,
but the LORD delivers him from them all;
Psalm 37:39,40 NIV
The salvation of the righteous comes from the LORD;
he is their stronghold in time of trouble.
40 The LORD helps them and delivers them;
he delivers them from the wicked and saves them,
because they take refuge in him.
Psalm 97:10 NIV
Let those who love the LORD hate evil,
for he guards the lives of his faithful ones
and delivers them from the hand of the wicked.
2 Timothy 3:10-13 NIV
You, however, know all about my teaching, my way of life, my purpose, faith, patience, love, endurance, 11persecutions, sufferings—what kinds of things happened to me in Antioch, Iconium and Lystra, the persecutions I endured. Yet the Lord rescued me from all of them. 12In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, 13while evil men and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.
2 Corinthians 12:9,10 NIV
But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. 10That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong.
Hi Contender,
Jesus commanded us to cast out devils in his name. SO we have the authority to do this, if we just obey and have faith.
This post came from some notes of a lecture I attended. The parable of the sower who sowed into different types of ground, representing different levels of faith, had different results.
http://www.goodnewsdispatch.org/erwin.html
This seems like the best thread to post Gayle Erwins’ Web Site.
He may not be the most dynamic speaker but he makes some very excellent points!
Grace and peace,
Chris
Hi Chris.
It looks like Erwin is trying to cover all the bases. Thanks for the link.
I think I have been through 1-7 and now I am back to 0 starting over.I am sort of mad God right now, I cant help it, it’s just how I feel. The battles I have been through have been so intense and severe the only thing I had to hold on was the promise and now I dont see it anytime soon, I am just existing with all these needs not being met. Humans cant go around with out there needs not met forever they will eventually lose their minds, go insane or something. Sometimes I feel like God tricks us to do his will.I have no choice but to continue on, but I am not feeling all those lovey dovey things that you say you must feel to have perfect faith, I think that is kind of phoney and nonrealistic.
Hi Rachel.
You are discouraged, but do not give up. You are just getting to the point where you will finally discover that all you need is god. The bible says to seek first the kingdom of God and all these things will be added unto you. Many things that we think we need, we don’t. But since they are needs others have and they get satisfied, we feel left out, and neglected.
There are dry periods in a believer’s life ….. you will not hear from God…..and you will think your needs are not met…..but what is happening is that you are redefining what needs are really important…..
you will get through this…we all go through this….there is a light at the end of the tunnel…just know that these dry periods can go on for years…..but something will eventually happen, and it will then be over.
When my father died on Feb 5th of this year, I went to O! I couldn’t understand it…it troubled me more than I could express. I felt Gods’ silence!! I remember standing over my father’s body and thinking, “Where are you”. At home, I was trying to explain what happened to my 7yr old and in the middle of it I thought “why am I telling him this, what if this is something we have all made up to help us get thru such a painful experience and I certainly don’t want to lie to my son! It was horrible…I expressed my feelings to a close friend and what she said to me helped me to come back. Her words to me were “Remember that which you know to be true”. The only thing I knew to be true at that time and was my first thought was the HOly Spirit. The ONLY thing I knew to be true at that moment in my life was remembering that I had received the Baptism in the HS 20 years prior. The evidence of that moment was being able to pray in another language. There was no way I could speak these different languages and this alone is what brought me back to the realization of God and His existence.
It is my prayer that everyone experience the HOly Spirit as Jesus promised they would if only they would ask.
Now I would say my faith is back up to 5 and 6. I say 6 only because I can be “child like”/Naive sometimes. If there is a difficult situation at hand I will just say, Well, I will ask my Father (Heavenly Father) to help….and the responses I get are “Huh? and oh yeah…and then laughter”. I am so serious but they think I am kidding I guess…why wouldn’t I ask Him to help….there is only so much we can do and then He can do the impossible (that’s another really cool story).
if you have the faith as a mustard seed (very small) you will do the works i do and even greater
Wow, excellent. I am blessed by this.
marianne
This is the first time that I have heard of levels of faith. I have always believed that we are saved by faith alone, not by works. This is the concept of justification by faith. What comes after this justification is the process of sanctification through grace. What I believe the ultimate goal of this sanctifying proceess is is that we learn to love G-d unconditionally. In other words not for the health and wealth or any other benefit it brings us, but rather to love for the sake of love, because G-d is love. We love Him because he first loved us. This I believe is what communion with G-d is, and what is the created order before the fall. In that respect we become a new creation thru G-d’s grace.
I find your levels to be accurate with regards to sanctification thru grace. But it is not within our own abilities that we climb this ladder, but rather it is by G-d’s leading that we grow as Christians. We cannot truly love G-d unconditionally till we put no conditions on His love. That sounds rather simlistic, and infact the definition of unconditional, But there is hope in this process, becoming a new creation in Christ. It is a battle of wills and motives for loving G-d. Our love is insufficient until we can love him unselfishly.
hi dru
what you say is true. I am just pointing out that we all start out with a measure of faith at salvation. We are then presented with opportunities to strengthen and test our faith.
Amen
Marianne
Here is what I have come up with, regarding the Sermon on the Mt. and our spiritual journey.
1. When we admit our wickedness and inability to save ourselves, and come to the cross on our knees; We are “poor in Spirit” (Matt. 5:3) These beliefs lead to our salvation (Justification by faith). Once we are saved, we are called to be “salt and light” in a wicked world (Matt 5:13-16). This means we are to show the fact that God has transformed us and our lives will begin to reflect this, and are told to give the glory to God.(verse 16)
Eventually, as we are letting our light shine, we begin to take credit for this transformation our selves. Our pride creeps in and we become judgemental. In order to grow in our sanctification process, our actions should “NOT be seen by others but by your Father…” (Matt 6:16-18)
2. When the Lord deals with our pride, and knocks us down off the pedestal we put ourselves on, we “mourn” for it seems as if we have lost our selves. But when we realize it is our own sinfullness that “exalted” us, it leads us to repent, and we receive the “comfort” of the comforter which is the Holy Spirit. (Matt 5:4) In other words we have moved from doing Good works, thinking we will earn God’s respect and Love to realizing that our good works motivated by our own effort only lead to more sin. The specific instruction for those whose faith is at this level, Is to not “Abolish the law”, which many do when they reach this level, But to be led by the Spirit to obey the Law, not our own efforts.(Matt 5:17-20). This is the only way our “righteousness (Can) exceed that of the scribes and pharisees”. Theologically this is known as “instant Sanctification”. This is awork Done by God for those he has chosen to serve him.(see Acts 20:32, Heb. 2:11, 3:1)
The second set of instructions tells us to lay up treasures in heaven, as once we receive the Spirit, our heart is still yearning for the things of this world. (Matt 6:19-24) This then begins the process of “progressive sanctification”, or being Sanctified by the Holy Spirit. (See John 17:17, Romans Chapter 6)
3. Eventually, our sanctification process leads us to a point where we are largely “Obeying the Law” and becoming more Christ like outwordly. In other words we are becoming “Meek” or more self controlled empowered by the Spirit. (See MacArthur notes for Matt. 5:5) The first instruction for those who have achieved this “obedience” is that we must not only deal with the outer Obedience, But also deal with our sinful emotions and passions. Jesus uses the example of our Anger to express this,(Matt. 5:21-26) equating our Hatred for someone with Murder, as this is the emotion that leads to murder.
When we learn to deal with our emotions of hatred, we learn to Love one another with a pure Love which comes from God. Inevitably, when we deny ourself in this way, it leads to anxiety of worldly needs. Because we are “laying our treasures in heaven.” This anxiety is overcome by trusting that the Lord will provide for us (Matt. 6:25-34). When we learn to trust in God to provide for us, we are no longer “children of the Faith”, But become “Young Men” (See 1 John 2:13, 2:17, 2:28)
4. We now “hunger and thirst for righteousness”, God’s righteousness not our own. (Matt 5:6, see also Romans 10:3-4). Our faith has now Mtured by God’s grace to the point that we are no longer swayed by “the things of this world”, and know “how” to walk with God and cannot be deceived by false doctrines. (see eph. 4:14-16) Now in our walk with God we must learn to deal with our flesh, and the desires thereof. Jesus uses the example of “lust” to illustrate this. (matt.5:27-30) Note the struggle we face with the flesh, being told to “pluck out our eye, or sever a body part that leads to sin”.
When we overcome the flesh, our temptation is to “look down” and condemn those who have not overcome. We tend to Judge those who are less mature in the faith, and not as far along in this sanctification process. Hence the instruction of judging others. (Matt 7:1-6) Verse six is the key in understanding this. People who are less mature or not saved at all will turn your condemnation against you and attack you for it. If we can overcome this desire to judge others we learn to show Mercy on those who are less fortunate.
5. This leads to the fifth beatitude, “blessed are the merciful”. (Matt 5:7) Our judgement leads others to sin, while our mercy leads others to God. Jesus uses the example of divorce to demonstrate this. (Matt. 5:31-32) Not divorcing a wife or husband who does not live up to our expectations spiritually or physically is a supreme sacrifice and act of mercy. In the end your sacrifice will be a testimony to that person that is profound beyond words. (I speak from experience on this one).
For this Jesus tells us to “ask and it will be given” (Matt. 7:7-10) not might be given. In other words, when we make the sacrifice, for others, they will turn their lives towards God, and towards their spouse, for they shall see the Purity of our heart, when we having all sorts of reasons to divorce but do not.
6, hence the sixth beatitude is Purity of heart. (Matt. 5:8) When we are “pure in heart”, our actions mirror our desires. We sacrifice for others for a true desire to see them come to Christ. Jesus uses oaths to illustrate the honesty we aquire by his grace. (Matt 5:33-37) We no longer need oaths to prove that our word is Good, for our motives are no longer out of line with our actions. Our yes is yes, and our no is no. We then can say truthfully, and with a pure heart that we desire to be with the Lord and to walk with him constantly.
When we can say this, we ” enter through the narrow gate”, and are truly mature in the faith. (Matt. 7:12-14) for we can see God. (See 1 John 2:13, 5:13ff, 5:20) Now our goal is to come to “know God in his fullness”.
7. 1 john 4:13 states that “fathers know him who is from the beginning”. Matt.5:9 says “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be CALLED sons of God. This is when we become Christ like. The specific instruction for this is to on retaliation. (matt. 5:38-42) Though it is not condemned to show wrath for others sins against us, we are commanded to turn the other cheek, as God could have destroyed us for our sin, but instead chose to “turn the other cheek”, and send his Son to die for us. (read Gen 6:5-8, and anywhere in the bible where God dealt with the Israelites) To withhold wrath which is righteously deserved is a charateristic of God which has led to our redemption, and our ability to peacefully exist in communion with God.
Matt 7:15-20 Then talks of healthy trees bearing good fruit, and unhealthy trees bearing bad fruit. This should not be seen in connection to the general fruit of the spirit which all Christians can produce when led by the Spirit, But these fruit are produced on healthy trees. These fruit are a sign of spiritual maturity. The false prophets spoken of are “INWARDLY ravenous wolves, whereas mature Christians have a healthy tree (purity of heart) producing the fruit. When it says all trees bearing bad fruit will be cut down and thrown in the fire, this refers to the false prophets. These are the ones that appear as if they are mature in the faith and are not. Those that have the healthy tree in them, will inevitably be persecuted by those false prophets for “Righteousness sake”.
8. hence the next beatitude, Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness sake”. (Matt. 5:10) for theirs is the Kingdom of God. (this is not Just a gurantee of entry, but of possesion thereof. I will go further on this later.) Jesus says we are to Love our enemy, and pray for those who persecute us. (Matt. 5:43-48) This is how God Loved us, while we were yet sinners, and enemies. This is the perfection we must attain to be Christlike, and the righteousness we are persecuted for. The authorities of the apostate churches are busy punishing their enemies, and when you speak up against this they will persecute you for it. They will mock you for turning the other cheek. This is doing “the will of God” as mentioned in matt. 7:21-23. Those who are denied entry, though they prophecy and do mighty works are these false prophets.
9. This love for our enemies will eventually lead us to be tried by these false prophets and put to death for them. Matt 5:11. This is the mirror of what Jesus did on the cross, and is done for others (The needy, Matt 6:1-4) This is to be Christlike to the extreme, and the reward though un mentioned here will be great. To elaborate further on this, if we Look at Jesus’ new commandment, (John 13:34, 15:12-13) we are called to lay down our lives for our friends, as Jesus did for us, But we are also called to love our enemies as well. The example of Jesus on the cross, and to an extent Stephens stoning, and their willingness to for their friends, led to the salvation of the enemies as well. In the case of Christ, Salvation was brought to all men, The gentiles included who executed him, in the case of Stephen, his sacrifice led to the redemption of Saul, who had ordered his stoning. (acts 7:54-60) Stephens last words even echoed Christs, saying; “Lord do not hold this sin against them”.
Thus, this sacrifice which some will make for our faith has a twofold purpose. We are called to do it for our friends, (whatever the result of that sacrifice might be), But we will also do it for our enemies as a testimony to them, that they may be led to Christ through it.
1 John is a similar exposition on the our spiritual maturity, and just about every book in the New testament mentions our suffering fo the faith, and that we are to rejoice when faced with it. Romans 8:14 says “For ALL who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.” Whatever “level” you are on, in your walk with God, so long as you are walking by the Spirit, and being sanctified by the spirit, you are an “heir” of the Kingdom of heaven. Do not let others to tell you otherwise, as this is a deception of the false prophets, which will one day accuse and mock you for doing God’s will.
May God be glorified.
AND Amen
Part 2
As I said above these nine levels of our faith are indicative of our walk with God. The first three are as Children of the Faith, the second three as Young men of the faith, and the final three as fathers if the Faith. (1 John 2:13-15)
When we repent and believe, we are rewarded with entry into the Kingdom of heaven. Matt 5:3 But this is also the reward for those who are persecuted for the faith. Matt 5:10 Is there a difference between these two rewards is the question. In verse 4 Jesus does not talk directly of the comforter, but only says “comfort” will be the reward. This is because he has not yet revealed to the disciples his death, and the coming comforter. In the same way, this is why he does not distinguish a difference on the rewards for the Kingdom of heaven. Romans 8:12-18 however does give the distinction. Verse 12-13 talks of overcoming the flesh. verse 14 talks of becoming sons of God led by the Spirit. This is the reward which Moves us form the young man stage of faith to the Mature faith (Matt5:9). verse 16-17 then says “The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God, 17. and if Children, then HEIRS-Heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, PROVIDED WE SUFFER WITH HIM IN ORDER THAT WE MAY BE GLORIFIED WITH HIM.” Verse 19 says “For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of GOD.
going back to the final three beatitudes, The reward for the peacemakers is receiving the title “sons of God” for enduring persecution for righteousness sake, we gain not just entry into the kingdom, but become heirs to that kingdom. and for facing trial and death for our faith, we are “glorified with him”, the him being Christ. As paul puts it “For I consider that the suffering of this present time are not worth comparing with the glory that is to be revealed to us.” (Rom. 8:18)
God has promised blessings for those who continue walking with God, If we should be chosen to suffer as Christ suffered, then we should Rejoice and leap for joy, for the reward in heaven is great!! We earn none of these rewards by our own efforts, but by our submission to the will of God. For it is his love flowing through us that allows us to accomplish these beatitudes.
Christianity is masochism.
I love this.-FAITH