Does Satan have a body?

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Is Satan only a spirit, or does he have some sort of body?
From current understanding of scripture, and from the visible world around us, it appears that he only has a spirit body at this point in time! Is this true?
According to Revelation, he embodies just one person in the last 7 years of prophecy, but is he the only one? Are there more?
This post is to further explore the concept of the physical nature of Satan.
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Spirits appearing in the bible
I recall that Jesus, after his resurrection, had a visible body that could go through a wall into the next room. Thomas could touch him. So, he had a body, but it was made of a different substance, or matter, than normal flesh and blood.
He then disappeared at will. He was not just a vision. Also, there are bible accounts of angels just appearing out of nowhere.
The bible states the devil “came” to Jesus and tempted him in the desert. Was it just a voice, or did he physically show up? If so, then where did the body come from?
Maybe it is possible that Satan has a “spirit” body. In modern times, and throughout historical literature, he, or one of his fallen angels, has also been said to just appear to people, from out of nowhere. Sometimes, it was as an evil entity, but many times as an angel of light.
How one could either appear, or disappear, may be a function of a higher law of physics that most, or nearly all, of us do not understand. Appearing at will makes the body seen to our eyes, and disappearing is also a function of the will.
Or sometimes, it is not at will, since Philip was caught up after he baptized the converted eunuch.
Act 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
Maybe going through walls can also mean going through bodies, to possess them. Instead of just an evil “spirit” possessing someone, maybe there is more “matter” involved, that accompanies the spirit portion.
If so, maybe this is what causes unnatural disease (natural disease would be due to the body breaking down with injury or age, etc). The unnatural matter would not be recognized by the “self” recognition system of the body, and it would react against it, producing different immune responses to get rid of it.
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Garden of Eden – My first thought was that Satan was only a spirit, because it seemed that he had to use the body of a serpent ( נחש – nachash ) to communicate with Eve. But, maybe he did not possess the snake, but maybe he just WAS the snake. Was he a special species or category of snake like creatures? If Satan did have a body like a serpent, what did it look like?
Archeologists have found evidence of a legged serpent in the phylogeny of snake fossils. Prior to the fall, the serpent was either a quadruped or a bi-ped. The najash (note the similarity to the Hebrew word nachash) was found to have legs. So it was a legged serpent that spoke to Eve.
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Below is a picture of a snake fossil, Najash rionegrina. The red dot marks the femur coming from the hip region. It has a sacrum! It has a pelvic girdle! It has hind limbs, with femora, fibulae, and tibiae! It’s a definitive snake with legs, and it’s the oldest snake yet found.

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Scientists consider this a “transitional” form for evolutionary evidence. Scientists think that the legs just “fell off” due to disuse. Why would a creature stop using their legs? This does not seem credible or logical. If true, why didn’t other “lazy” creatures lose their legs also? The science view makes no sense.
Since they also admit this is the oldest snake fossil found, is it possible that Satan, in ancient times, was the father of “serpents?” It seems like all snakes carry this curse to this day. Why would they all carry this curse, unless they were somehow related to the original one?
Long before man and his science, the Bible clearly describes the serpent’s punishment: being forced to crawl on its belly, forever afterwards. The curse from God turned the snake from a walking creature, into a slithering one.
Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou [art] cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shall thou go, and dust shall thou eat all the days of thy life:
*** I do not condemn the little snake animals that got his curse. Natural snakes would have obvious physical differences from a supernatural being, if they were originally separate groups.
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See this post on Quetzalcoatl, an ancient god who had a body of a snake, with “feathers.”
Click here for more
Maybe Quetzalcoatl’s “feathers” were angel wings. I have been told by someone who used to be on the dark side that devils can appear in bodies to people. So, is this an illusion, or a revealing of something, transferred from dimension to another, by a subtle physiological change, or conscious change of matter?
I believe Quetzalcoatl is Lucifer, or Satan.
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Do Satan and his fallen angels have bodies?
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The Book of Enoch also describes these “angels” as gods, or Watchers. (106.5-6, section 10). Enoch also says they could appear like men when they wished, (17.1), but even so, he never seems to “doubt their divinity (ie. supernatural origin)”.
In Enoch 8.3, Amezarak taught all those who cast spells and cut roots, Armaros the release of spells, and Baraqiel astrologers, and Kokabiel portents, and Tamiel taught astrology, and Asradel taught the path of the Moon. The angels did this in person.
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King of Tyre – Like any region, the kingdom of Tyre had its sequence of kings and rulers. History mentions a few, like Hiram, Abibaal, and Apollinius. However, there is one king/prince of Tyre (seems to describe Lucifer/Satan), that was given in scripture as both
a man, who thinks he is God:
Eze 28:2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyre, Thus says the Lord GOD; Because your heart [is] lifted up, and thou have said, I [am] a God, I sit [in] the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou [art] a man, and not God, though thou set your heart as the heart of God:
And a cherub, someone that lived long before Ezekiel in the Garden of Eden:
Eze 28:13 You hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone [was] thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou were created.
Eze 28:14 Thou [art] the anointed cherub that covers; and I have set you [so]: you were upon the holy mountain of God; you hast walked up, and down, in the midst of the stones of fire.
So, this king or prince of TYRE had not only been around during the time of the Garden of Eden, but was still around during the time of Ezechiel. He was part man and part cherub.
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Aliens – fallen angels / demons?
http://www.abduct-anon.com/alien%20types.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_alien
What is the connection between reported alien encounters and fallen angels? Are the aliens really from someone else, and visiting here, or are they supernatural beings? Whatever they are, they are humanoid, and strange looking to us. Does this give us a clue?
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If Satan, or any spirit, has a body, how is it physically different from man’s?
Man is said to be mind, body, and spirit. Would Satan and the angels have been created in a similar fashion? Are they also body, mind, and spirit?
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Well, the following is just an academic exercise, which follows. I am not saying this is the real answer.
It seems like if God gave man his spirit, then that spirit part is the same. The difference was when God used the soil of the earth to create the body for Adam, the first man. What is in the soil that got into man? That, then, might equal the difference between the two body types (human vs spirit).
References:
http://chemistry.about.com/cs/howthingswork/f/blbodyelements.htm
http://www.seafriends.org.nz/oceano/abund.htm
Most of the human body is made up of water, H2O, with cells consisting of 65-90% water by weight. Therefore, it isn’t surprising that most of a human body’s mass is oxygen (most of space is hydrogen and helium). Carbon, the basic unit for organic molecules, comes in second (very small amount in air or space). 99% of the mass of the human body is made up of just six elements: oxygen, carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, calcium, and phosphorus.
Oxygen (65%)
Carbon (18%)
Hydrogen (10%)
Nitrogen (3%)
Calcium (1.5%)
Phosphorus (1.0%)
Potassium (0.35%)
Sulfur (0.25%)
Sodium (0.15%)
Magnesium (0.05%)
Copper, Zinc, Selenium, Molybdenum, Fluorine, Chlorine, Iodine, Manganese, Cobalt, Iron (0.70%)
Lithium, Strontium, Aluminum, Silicon, Lead, Vanadium, Arsenic, Bromine (trace amounts)
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Space or air is mainly hydrogen and helium gas. There is very little carbon and oxygen in space. Just a funny thought – helium makes balloons rise and float. Spirits can “ascend” into heaven, and float around in the sky.
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space % |
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H |
87 |
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He |
12 |
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C |
0.03 |
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N |
0.008 |
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O |
0.06 |
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Ne |
0.02 |
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Na |
0.0001 |
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Mg |
0.0003 |
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Al |
0.0002 |
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Si |
0.003 |
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P |
0.00003 |
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S |
0.002 |
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Cl |
. |
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K |
7E-06 |
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Ca |
0.0001 |
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Fe |
0.002 |
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Make believe scenario: human –> spirit transformation
It would take a human form to undergo chemical combustion to convert into a more “air like form.”
CxHy + (x + y/4))O2 –> xCO2 + (y/2)H2O
Example 1:
CH4 + 2O2 → CO2 + 2H2O
If the body converted its organic component to gas and water (above example), then it would be less “physical,” and more of a vapor.
Example 2:
CH4 + 2O2 + 7.52N2 → CO2 + 2H2O + 7.52N2 + heat (energy release)
Similar reaction above, except that nitrogen is used also, and heat produced.
When Jesus rose from the dead, there would have been some form of spontaneous combustion, and a burst of heat.
If this is true, it would have been a much more sophisticated form than what we are familiar with on earth, which is usually incomplete, and leaves some mess. Also, Jesus was transforming from a dead human to spirit, and not an alive human to spirit.
So the transformation spirit –> human would require the reverse reaction, and would be more “difficult,” as it requires an input of energy. This is called an endothermic reaction.
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The combustion, or conversion to vapor, would NOT have to be 100% complete. When we think of Jesus after the resurrection, people could touch him, yet he could go through walls. So he was “solid,” but “not solid.”
The conversion to vapor would be just enough to make his body change, to make it less dense, go through walls, and to appear and disappear, but still be solid enough to be seen and touched. This is just a theory.
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But where would the energy come from?
One thought is that the spirit draws on the energy of humans, animals or other live forms around it. I am just speculating. Jesus only appeared to those who had great faith in him. The faith could be seen as a form of spiritual energy. The energy and faith of the believer opens the spirit to be able to draw Jesus to them.
In the same way, the devil seems to respond to those who have faith in him also. He can also draw on the emotions of people. When people become slaves to their emotions (increase in emotional state), it is like they open a door for him to enter.
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Alternative theory of spirit ↔ mass (human form) conversion = teleportation:
1. Teleportation – quantum entanglement: the disembodied transport of the quantum state of a system and its correlations across space to another system, where system refers to any single or collective particles of matter or energy such as baryons (protons, neutrons, etc.), leptons (electrons, etc.), photons, atoms, ions, etc.
2. Teleportation – exotic: the conveyance of persons or inanimate objects by transport through extra space dimensions or parallel universes.
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So, is the coming Antichrist the devil in human form, and how does he do it?
Energy theory: If so, then the devil will draw on the faith (energy) of others around him, who have built up the energy platform for him to transform into the New World god.
He might then transform from spirit –> human, as a result of their faith. His believers will provide the energy required for an endothermic reaction, inducing CO2, water, and nitrogen, and other elements to refuse into organic form from a vapor, spirit form.
Teleportation – somehow, the devil will just re-embody from a spirit form, or just enter into our world from a different dimension- and just “appear.” Einstein and other physicists believe there are about 10 dimensions, and where we are is just one of them.
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*** Note : the importance of Faith.
If true faith is the energy to call upon the supernatural to become real to us, then we should be careful where we put our faith.
Faith in Satan gives him power, and causes him to manifest.
Faith in God, and the salvation Jesus offers, gives US the power, and causes Him to come dwell with us. Hallelujah !!!!
So…..Who do you believe in?


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Does Satan have a body? « Heaven Awaits said this on February 9, 2009 at 10:00 pm |
Sure a lot of territory to explore in this one. I have some beliefs, based on my Bible studies. First i must consider why God had to hide the body from satan when Moses died. We see way over in Jude that this was fact. But what would satan want with Moses’ body? Well, we know satan has some of what we call supernatural powers, as shown in Pharoah’s court. The only reason I can think of for satan to want Moses’ body was to put it on, and come back before the Israelites as a risen one. From there, he could mislead the chosen ones, foiling God’s plan. That time, God did not allow satan to use a human body.
To go with this later, we see the anti-christ being killed, yet rising again. And we know this time, satan will be allowed to mislead the Israelis and the world. So we have a prior mention to go with Last Days events. satan could put on the body of a highly popular man, do miracles to make people believe he is the Messiah, and take over the world.
We also see from Enoch and hints in the Bible that fallen angels went into the daughters of Eve, and the result was hybrids, some giants among them. The flood killed those, and their spirits became the demons we know of today, wandering the earth looking for available bodies to inhabit. I remember being convinced some time ago that fallen angels have wings, and can fly. But demon spirits do not have wings, and must walk the earth.
So it seems that satan and his fallen angels can transform to human-like to the extent they can have intercourse with humans, and according to the Bible, produce seed that will be in emnity with the seed of Eve. From experience in deliverance, I know that demons can also have sexual relations with humans, but cannot reproduce as the fallen angels had.
For some time after the flood, just like today some marital unions produced throwbacks. All surviving humans who lived thru the flood had some fallen angel genes that could align to sometimes cause a giant…. or perhaps an Esau, “whom God hated.” Why would God hate this man? Likely he was a throwback, because he had a coat of red hair, and he smelled like a goat. And he had no cares about the things of God. (Must have been a lot of throwbacks in those days, as it seems Jacob was not bothered at all by Esau’s features, and he favored him.)
We must remember that Jesus called some religious leaders, “sons of the devil.” And we know that both the wheat and weeds must be left to grow alongside each other to maturity, so it can be seen which is the right one to harvest for Heaven and which go into the fire. I won’t try to guess whether the sons of satan ever have a chance of salvation or not… DavWms
HI David,
If present, I wonder what a modern day body of a fallen angel would look like. Looking like a serpent will not work anymore. Like us?
blessings
marianne
When one presents a question like the one you have one might consider being very careful in trusting the replies that are given…Always do your own research!
God created several different types of angels, all with different rank and a specific purpose for being created. For example, the angels that took women for wives were called the “Watchers”. There purpose was to teach humans how to live in this world after The Fall. Enoch was a very privileged man, he was taught all there is to know about everything. Archangels guided and taught Enoch all mysteries and he passed them on to his son Methuselah.
When God flooded the Earth, all life was completely destroyed. Not one life remained but Noah, his family and the animals, etc.
I believe Satan’s intent was to pollute the blood line in order to deny God of a pure one for the birth of Christ and other reasons. These hybrids, the Nephilem, once they grew in great number ate everything including themselves and humans. Along with the Watchers the Nephilem taught humans about war, weapons, killing and eating of meat. The Watchers were also responsible for teaching Astrology and many other secret things like magic. This is precisely why believers are told to never practice or use these types of knowledge.
Keep in mind that there are still Holy Watchers and I believe that they can be seen if one knows what to look for. I am almost certain that the UFO phenomenon is closely related if not directly to the fallen Watchers.
I’m sure Satan can make himself look like most anything. However, I’m thinking that the coming world leader will not be possessed by Satan but will be his offspring.
Hi solidwords,
What you say is true. It seems like there is no real pattern to the different possible types from history, so we cannot predict what will manifest next. I guess the behavior is the biggest clue, although the physical appearance is a curiosity.
I guess, if Satan, through the Antichrist, plans to deceive a sophisticated world, he should then attempt to fit in as much as possible.
However, when the wrath of God begins, it seems that the true forms of demons will manifest. The creatures described in Revelation are quite evil looking.
blessings
marianne
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Obama and the spaceship « Heaven Awaits said this on February 10, 2009 at 2:04 pm |
Marianne,
Concerning spirits, they are extradimensional creatures. If I as a 3 dimensional creature were to visit a 1 dimensional world, I would have powers that 1 dimensional creatures couldnt conceive. Entering their world, I would appear as an increasing point with no visible height and could act with impunity in their world. Some Jewish scholars posit that their are as many as 7 dimensions. Imagine the power available to a spirit! One last thing, I believe Ezekiel 28 is addressing two different beings at once. The king of Tyre is Satan himself, hence the mention of Eden and the accolades of perfection that no mortal could possibly have. The prince of Tyre is the antichrist, maybe after the devil possesses him. Apologies for the lengthy post.
Very interesting points you’ve raised. I think the resurrected body of Jesus was a flesh body. He told his disciples that a spirit “hath not flesh and bones as ye see me have”. Likewise, it was a human body. For the resurrection to have any validity, God had to raise up the same body that died; there had to remain the numerical identity- one man died, one man resurrected. He was, however, a glorified human and remains a man now. The espistles speak frequently about “the man Christ Jesus”. Precisely what glorification entails I dont know. I agree with you that it could be a modification or reshuffling of existing cell matter. One fascinating idea I’ve come across stated that their is something in the human dna that can’t ever be scientifically decoded, no matter how advanced we become. Perhaps God placed into all men this ‘nth’ gene that when activated glorifies a body. Another theory I’ve read suggests the change to be nuclear or electrical. Whatever the case, we will retain our numerical identity but with glory. We will still be ourselves. It’s interesting to note that mosts scientists agree that what causes us to age is replication. Our dna is coded for an individual of about 30 years (for this reason and the fact that Jesus was about that age when he was resurrected, I believe all of us will be this age in heaven in perpetual vitality) As the cells reproduce to repair damage to skin, organs, tissue, etc go further and further away from this code. Like photocopying a oopy of a copy of a copy, etc. This occurs roughly 10 times in the average lifetime. Thus when a person is old, the cell’s have lost much of their dna memory and the person looks like the same person, but a much more worn version. The possibilities are simply scintillating. Maybe none of us has it correct. We shall see soon. I don’t know that I’ll ever meet you in this life, but it will be fascinating after the rapture to sit down and talk with you and see what we got right
Hi Amardo
It is an interesting topic. How was the flesh of Jesus different (glorified) after the resurrection? I would really like to know. I could use a beauty treatment like that to get rid of aging. My personal opinion is that a glorified body has less solid carbon content, as it has been converted into a more vapor form. Vapor can go through walls. In the solid form, carbon takes on acid, sugar and fat forms, which are not necessary to exist in heaven.
As to the electrical theory, release of acid (+) makes the body more basic (-).
DNA and aging. What you are thinking of is telomeres- kind of like the seals at the ends of shoestrings. They exist at the ends of the DNA strands to preserve the content. As age occurs, with repeat replication, the strands loose the telomeres, and the DNA can loose information – become “frayed.”
The genes lost at the ends are usually those associated with youth – memory, vision, general bone health, tissue health, etc. The more internal genes are more critical to daily function, like making your cells function, so you can stay alive that day.
God put the genes that needed the most protection deep inside the strand to be sure they did not get damaged. God is smart!
blessings
marianne
DEAREST MARIANNE , MAY GOD BE WITH YOU AND BLESS YOU. YOUR INFORMATION ON SO MANY VARIED SUBJECTS IS AMAZING. MAY I BE SO BLOLD TO ASK ,HAVE YOU TAKEN CHEMISTRY IN COLLEGE AND ARE YOU A COLLEGE GRADUATE? IF NOT THE LORD HAS CERTAINLY HELPED YOU TO HAVE A DEEP GRASP OF MANY VARIED SUBJECTS . I PRAISE GOD FOR THAT AND PRAY THAT YOUR WEB SIGHT DRAWS MANY INTO FAITH IN CHRIST JESUS.
I SAW JESUS IN 2004 IN A DREAM/VISION I HAD IN THE TIME FRAME AFTER JESUS DIED. HE WAS IN HIS TOMB . HE WAS ALREADY SITTING UP AND HE WALKED THRU THE WALL OF THE ROCK TOMB TO THE OUTSIDE. THERE WAS NO BODY LEFT OF HIS ON THE SLAB BENCH MADE TO HOLD A BODY. HIS ENTIRE BODY FORM CAME OFF THAT BENCH. IT WAS NOT LIKE A GHOST VAPOR LIKE FORM THAT LIFTED UP AND SEPERATED FROM THE BODY. WHAT I SAW LOOKED LIKE HIS BODY WAS VERY SOLID AND I WAS AMAZED WHEN HE WENT THRU THE STONE WALL. I COULD HARDLY BELIEVE WHAT I HAD SEEN BECAUSE HIS BODY LOOKED SO SOLID. ANOTHER ODD THING WAS THAT I HAD SOME HOW BEEN ABLE TO SEE BOTH INSIDE THE TOMB AS WELL AS THE OUTSIDE AS IF I HAD XRAY VISON. I DO NOT KNOW WHAT HIS BELOVED BODY WAS MADE UP OF BUT I DO KNOW IT WAS A REAL BODY I WAS SEEING. IN THE BIBLE IT SAYS HE ASKED THOMAS TO TOUCH HIM.
THE REALLY IMPORTANT THING THOUGH IS ONE DAY WE SHALL ALL BE LIKE HIM AND SEE HIM FACE TO FACE, THOSE OF US WHO BELIEVE IN HIM, .
I PRAY IN JESUS CHRIST NAME BLESSINGS TO YOU ALL AND MAY GOD GRANT YOU ALL HIS PEACE AND BY HIS HOLY SPIRIT CALL THOSE OF YOU WHO HAVE NOT RECEIVED HIM AS LORD AND SAVIOR TO SALVATION. AMEN THANK YOU FATHER GOD FOR HEARING MY PRAY ALL GLORY BE TO YOU ALONE.
DEAR ONES IF YOU ARE NOT SAVED PLEASE ACCEPT JESUS CHRIST NOW IN FAITH, BELIEVING HE IS WHO HE SAID HE IS , AND RECEIVE GOD’S WONDERFUL GIFT OF SALVATION, PEACE AND JOY. PLEASE, IF UP UNTILL NOW YOU HAVE NOT REPENTED OF YOUR SINS AND ACCEPTED JESUS CHRIST AS YOUR LORD AND SAVIOR AND BEEN BORN AGAIN DO SO NOW AT THIS VERY MOMENT . TIME IS SHORT AND THERE IS NO GARANTEE WE WILL LIVE A LONG LIFE. MY GRANDSON DIED AT 15 . IT WILL BE THE BEST DAY OF YOUR LIFE AND ONE DECISION YOU WILL NEVER REGRET .
SHALOM AND GOD BLESS
PLEASE SEE AND READ JOHN 20:27 THEN HE SAID TO THOMAS,”REACH HERE YOUR FINGER , AND SEE MY HANDS: AND REACH HERE YOUR HAND AND PUT IT INTO MY SIDE; AND BE NOT UNBELIEVING, BUT BE BELIEVING.”
Hi Nhel,
I agree that the body was solid enough to see and touch. I was trying to determine how his body was different. Somehow, it was “solid” but “not solid,” if he could go through walls. The conversion to vapor I referred to, may only be enough to allow this. That is, the conversion was not 100%, or he would have been invisible. Maybe I should make a note in the post, and make this clear. I have a chemistry degree. Thank you.
I think it was also interesting that Mary saw Jesus right after the resurrection, and he told her NOT to touch him, because he had not gone to the Father yet. Only after this visit to the Father was complete, and he returned to visit the apostles, was Thomas allowed to touch him. I wonder what the difference was then. Somehow, being with the Father made him more “touchable.”
That might be a lesson in itself. As Jesus was not complete without the Fathers touch, neither are we. Unless we also have a good relationship with the Father, and we can approach Him, we cannot have this glorification started or completed. Jesus, the way, the truth, and the life, allows us to be able to approach the Father, and do this.
blessings
marianne
that is a shocking display of pseudo-science. what on earth was that snake bit about? snakes have stumps of legs, we have stumps of tails, panda’s thumbs are developed from wrist bones (which is why they are so awkward and clumsy). evolution throws up some odd things.
as for the science of resurrection…
copying and pasting incredibly basic outlines (practically aphorisms) of incredibly complicated scientific theories like entanglement which you clearly have zero understanding of and then writing entirely unconnected gibberish about figures from mythology (which is what the devil is, a mythological symbol for the concept of evil used by the most basic civilizations as a character in stories or myths used to set moral norms) is not science!
any scientist worth their salt would openly laugh and indeed probably show their friends so they could also laugh (as i have done) at the incredible level of ignorance masquerading as investigation shown in this blog.
the most fundamental question to ask before you quote biblical sources is whether the testimony is reliable. those accounts were written by unreliable, uneducated, people. other fishermen from the same time and much later were reliably writing about sea monsters.
another thing to bear in mind is that, even if they were from reliable sources (which they are not) those testimonies were written and compiled long after the event, it’s funny how willful delusion can be turned into definite memory over a very short period of time. it’s even funnier how text can be omitted, written in and edited to suit the purpose of the political rulers using religion as a manipulating force.
you must attempt to read bible passages with the cultural and historical subtext firmly in mind. remember that the meaning of the text is creating by the coming together of the symbols and their interpretation by the reader. the very meaning and purpose of language itself as well as the individual words has shifted, and indeed been translated out of the original language over time. direct access to biblical text is in no way synonymous with access to the intended message of the author.
perhaps you should read a basic introduction to structuralist/post structuralist literary criticism including an overview of the thought of derrida and barthes as well as some basic existential philosophy before further embarrassing yourself with these antiquated and irrelevant questions. i’m not sure if these texts can help with a lack of common sense but i certainly hope so.
blessings
zarathustra
Zarathusa
I have been in science for 30 years, and I think the insane philosophers you follow are rubbish too.
No basis for any of their theories. Unbelief is not proof. Rejection is not proof. False claims about unreliability of witnesses, and when something was written are not proof. It is just fear of the unknown, since you make no effort to understand it.
The point about the snake was that the bible knew about the legs before science existed. We do not lose legs due to disuse. That is foolish. Anyone or anything who has legs uses them, unless they have been crippled. The bible teaches that the loss was due to a punishment.
Evolution is a hoax.
I understand science quite well. So where did you get your PhD, and in what specialty? I am a medical scientist.
marianne
i don’t follow any philosophers. i openly explore ideas as i find them in the world, be it through first hand observation or through the experience of others mediated to me through language. i acknowledge that i am experiencing everything through a filter of presuppositions and systems of logic and language from which i cannot escape. but which can perhaps help me better understand myself and the world.
the philosophers who’s ideas i respect the most are those who openly admit their own total fallibility and the total subjectivity of all the concepts they seek to explore.
false claims about unreliability of witnesses? i think you misunderstand my point. i was talking about the unreliability of language itself. something which i am paradoxically attempting to explain through language.
our total lack of access to an objective reality does not mean we can’t construct and treat our reality as objective. it just means everything is belief and nothing is proof.
we can observe the world and build up a reasonable explanation of how things appear to work (constantly bearing in mind this may all be delusion a la plato’s cave) this is not total rejection or unbelief. it is the opposite. rejection of the world is refusing to look at it properly- refusing to attempt to peel away the filter of unquestioned dogma through which you give things their meaning.
all of that said, claiming that evolution is a hoax is akin to claiming that gravity is a hoax.
to finish, a few short sentences,
i don’t have a phd because i’m still in school. a PhD is only as good as the people who decided to give you one. the education system is a mimicking process and not a thinking one. learning and regurgitating equations doesn’t make you a scientist.
p.s. have you read any of the philosophers i’ve mentioned or are you too afraid of the unknown?
Zarathustra
I wish you would pick an easier name to use.
you said.
I guess this would apply to your opinion as well. So why consider it any more valid than someone else’s?
Philosophers are not experts in theology or history. So why consult them about something they know nothing about?
yes, I have studied philosophy and found it boring. All conjecture, and no proof.
Since you admit that your idols of philosophy are fallible, why believe them?
You apparently have never taken a physical anthropology course. You would then know there is no proof, just an occasional bone and much conjecture.
marianne
“You would then know there is no proof” that’s what i just said. you even quoted it. yes it does apply to my opinion as well. just because all things are equally fallible doesn’t mean they are equally useful or equally beautiful.
they are not my idols and i do not believe them. i enjoy the athleticism of their mental gymnastics.
hi zarathustra
uncovering the mysteries of prophecy can be interesting also
marianne
One thing has always had me curious. So much is said about the blood. The life is in the blood; “I hear Able’s blood crying out from the ground;” Jesus shed His blood that we may be saved; And many more etc; It makes me wonder if when He shed His blood for us, did we who are saved get a molecule of it placed in us, so it could clone until we become like Jesus if we allowed? I wonder if our DNA changed when we got saved?
I have also heard scientific reports that what looks and feels solid to us actually has much space between its parts, somewhat like when we look up at the stars and see far more space than actual solid parts. And the theory was that this is what could allow beings to pass thru solid walls.
I love these subjects. I must admit, I don’t like it when evolutionists bring their “facts” in to show us how foolish we are for having faith in God. I would love for them to see the truth and get saved, but they have made a choice of their father and unfortunately, it is like throwing pearls before swine. I have seen many a site that wasted space trying to convince them otherwise with real facts that they are unable to see. That leaves us to only pray THE FATHER makes Himself known to them…. DavWms
Hi David,
Everything has spaces between them. Even the parts of the atom. Expanding the space make something less dense. This is what radioactivity is, in some ways.
I do not think there is a molecule put in us at salvation. But the molecules in our body are responding to a different energy than what we had before. I think the blood is on the “outside” of the spirit, just as the blood was applied to the doorpost in Egypt. This is the mark and seal of God on the believer.
I am not worried about evolutionists and atheists. When they create their own universe out of nothing, then I will listen to them.
blessings
marianne
I don’t worry about evolutionists, either. My comment was because i have seen them take over a site as some Christians are willing to argue beyond what is necessary. They do not believe there is no chance to open their eyes, and just go on and on, ruining a good thread. Once I see that for sure, they are not looking for truth, i let them go their way. DavWms
Hi all. My understanding of satan having a body is summed up as follows.
Satan needed to have a body in order to guard over God’s glory both in heaven and on Earth. And we see this again several times in scripture where angels took on bodies. But remember, anything taking on a body of subject to sin in that body. Only Jesus was able to walk sin free.
Once he sinned he was no longer employed. God created man to till the garden satan once walk in and cared for.
Thou [art] the anointed cherub that covers; and I have set you [so]: you were upon the holy mountain of God; you hast walked up, and down, in the midst of the stones of fire.
The holy mountain was set in the garden and is found in modern Jerusalem.
The stones of fire are set before God’s throne were Lucifer walked back and forth playing music for all the angels to hear.
During this time angels were dispatched to teach men rightouesness because there was no written instructions.
I believe God spoke these angelic spirits into being from His mouth, but he formed us with His hands first. Interesting? What he speaks from his mouth He will not take back. So He made another place for him; hell.
This is why Satan hates us so. God took special care making us and we took his position, causing him to restort to trickry to get it back (Adam and Eve).
The beautiful horns that perceived from him are warped. His appearance is as sin, horrible.
Dr. Lester Sommerall had an encounter with the real satan years ago. He heard noises outside his house and walked to the back door to see what it was. As he looked to his side he saw the most hideous creature ever. Satan was attempting to bring fear upon him.
Dr. Sommerall said, “Oh it you.” Turned, and walked back into the house shutting the door behind him. Then went to bed and got a good nights sleep.
This is my opinion.
Hi Rev Williams,
My whole life, I just assumed since a spirit was invisible, it did not have a body. That is what made it a spirit. Spirit and body were different. Humans had a body, but angels didn’t. But now I am rethinking this.
Angels and spirits just have a body that is different from humans, who have a more solid, dense, and therefore visible (to us) body. Somehow, they draw on some energy, theirs or ours, to manifest in a more tangible way.
if true, the serpent body that Satan was in – in the garden – was really his body. If true, that is how fallen angels were able to mate with human women. Satan and his angels did not have to possess an animal, or a human, to do what they wanted. They just used their own body.
What is interesting, is that this kind of body is able to possess another body anyhow. Now, I am going to wonder how that works too.
blessings
marianne
Per an earlier comment, Marianne, you do have quite a wide bearth of knowledge, malicious skeptics notwithstanding. For all his derision of your scientific acumen, zarathustra’s input was exceptionally shoddy; tinged with lots of opinion and regurgitated hatred. I have a minor in chemistry (Major was in physics); I gravitate towards this blog because of the wonderful balance of word and science- it appeals to my spirit man and my mind. For all his acerbic distrust of theology, Carl Sagan was a brilliant mind. He theorized in Cosmos that the ability to walk through walls was a function not of the creature changing his components, but by force of thought changing the components of the object. In theory we should be able, whether through thought or other capacity of the spirit to line up the normally scattershot atoms of a wall and simply walk through it. The Bible says eyes havent seen, ears havent heard, neither has it entered into the heart of man the things that God has prepared for those that love him. We so often think of that passage within the context of our dwellingplaces in heaven, our “stuff” as it were. Far more interesting to me will be the body that I will inhabit. All of the most imaginative of us could get together for a lifetime and brainstorm nonstop from birth to death and wouldnt even scratch the surface of the splendor, the wonder of what we will see and be. Reverend Williams has certainly gotten the wheels turning in my mind. If hell, currently within the earth, a PHYSICAL place was originally prepared for the devil and his angels, then they should by virtue of the tangibility of hell have some sort of body. (I suppose the other possibility is that like the great chain to bind the dragon in revelation it portends some other kind of captivity. A chain couldnt bind a spirit, it only represented authority). Only God really knows. That we are discussing it is wonderful. I’m so happy to participate. Thank you so much, Marianne.
Hi Amardo,
That is an interesting thought. Instead of our bodies changing to go through a wall, maybe our minds exercise mind over matter, and change the material of the wall, by virtue of our thoughts. This concept seems to hold up for telekinesis. Maybe it is true for teleportation also.
What I am rethinking here is that spirit and body are the same. They are just different for heaven and earth. It is like the body changes with the environment.
To initially change from the human to the other worldly, requires an act of God’s will and mind. Since I do not see any deceased coming back to visit, I assume once we get to heaven, there is no travel back.
However, the bodies and purposes of the angels are different. They are physically equipped to travel between the two worlds of heaven and earth, and they are also equipped to adapt to each environment with either a solid, visible body, or a more ethereal one.
So maybe the spirit and body are actually the same thing. That would kind of blow away the traditional concept that we are 3-4 parts: body, mind, soul ,(spirit)? If man was made in God’s image, then he is body mind soul spirit too?
blessings
marianne
Hi everyone,blessings.
I have never been drawn to any blog quite as this one, very informative and truly a blessing. Concerning the spirit and the body I believe that the body is a physical replica of the spirit man. God can only relate to the spirit-man and man relates to the physical body only what he can see. When Jesus asked His Father to prepare Him a body that He could go down and die for man, it means He had to get a suit to enable Him to withstand this sphere. Jesus had to get a body formed out of dust, just as man to live, eat, play etc., here on earth. The angels, fallen angels not even the devil has such a privilage of an earthly suit as man does. However, when the devil was cast down to the bottomless pit until his final day of judgment, his powers were not taken away, everything was intact except for the position he held in heaven. Jesus called him the “father of lies” so we know that that man can twist, delude and form any truth into a lie. The devil also has various names and they were all attributed to his wicked characteristics. He’s been called “that old dragon, serpant, fox, the beast” and so on. I cannot see the devil body being a serpant, but I can see him cunning his way and allowing the serpant to will his body to him. Just as the pigs in the gospel, when Jesus heald the possessed man the legions of demonic spirits had no where to go and they pleaded with Jesus not to leave them homeless so Jesus send them into the swines that were near by; then we see further on that the swines ran and drowned themselves into the sea. Satan cannot do his work without willing vessels, he has power but he is not all powerful. Hence, my favourite passage of scripture is Luke 10:19 “Behold I have given you power, to tread on serpants and scorpions and over all the power of the enemy and nothing shall by any means harm you.” One thing I believe though is that we can will ourselves to be used either by God or the devil and they can possessed us as willed given us their authority and power to do their work here on earth. In the book of Revelation the beast give all his power to the anti-christ to make war here on earth, that will be the last straw before Jesus put in His second coming. Man is a spirit, he possessed a soul and live in a body. This body or earthly suit will die one day and return to the dust of the ground, but the spirit which will never die returns to God for it’s final destination. This spirit-man will get a new body not made up like the former from dust, but one that could withstand, heaven or hell.
Love, be bless.
hi charmaine
Good insights. We all may want to remember your favorite verse when the old serpent comes out to persecute the saints:
“Behold I have given you power, to tread on serpents and scorpions and over all the power of the enemy and nothing shall by any means harm you.”
We will have victory, if we remember our authority.
Hi! I find it again excellent interesting article Marianne!
Let me share one thought:
The 3 fold man-theory
(i think this old idea of body-spirit-mind is partly wrong)
spirit: character, feelings, thoughts = mind
body 1.1: on earth in Satans kingdom= earthbound (no walking through walls), solid, consists of fallen malicious sinful flesh
body 1.0: in heaven, without wrinkles, perfect, no sin, state of Adam&Eves body before sinning
It is then maybe without blood, the blood maybe is only “the life of the flesh” of the earthbound body 1.0/ it could be that jesus had no blood after resurrection)
the ruach (german: Odem): inspiration, breath, life of god
____________
The energys with which we are every day interacting between our and the spiritual dimension are LOVE and HATE.
LOVE is the good force, which pleases and touches Yahweh/Yashua.
HATE is the energy which attracts evil spirits. they use it.
This ‘feelings’ or expressions are very powerful !
LOVE is the biggest gift, it comes before FAITH (!)
LOVE is life, salvation, everything good…
LOVE IS EVEN OUR GOD HIMSELF
HATE is murder, killing someone spiritually, …
Everything we express spiritually has an effect both on the huge spiritual realm AND in this material, time-bound world.
Remember for example the Placebo-Effect!
I have experienced it myself: Over a period few months ago i tried to “send” LOVE to everyone i know, even to people i did not like.
i tried to increase this loving-thoughts and to send it to the person i thought about.
Also to some i have not seen a long time.
What happened:
I met 6 of them after years, in one month!
Also the “atmosphere” and contact in general became better with everyone i had sent LOVE.
Hi Silvanus.
Good for you. I hope you continue to send and receive love.
Maybe the difference between the spirit, heavenly body and the human body is the blood!
blessings
marianne
Thank you. I alas stopped doing this.. though its divine and the best for me.. ill try.
—-
Do we got it?
Yashuas blood is everlasting LIFE, ours is death.
When we will get our new spiritual body with “flesh and bones”, washed with his everlasting blood, we dont need our sinful blood anymore.
Wwe are than in his presence. We are living through his “energy” and light.
Today it is this fight, Paul spoke about, between Yashuas flesh and blood in us and our flesh which is interlaminated with our
dead blood.
Good night
Hi Silvanus,
So, all we have to do is get rid of the dead blood, and we will have a glorified body?
blessings
marianne
I kinda think Adam and Eve originally had glorious bodies that shown bright like Jesus’ body did on the Mount of Transfiguration. And that when they sinned, they lost their glory. And thus, they saw they were naked. Now, everything that god had created in them was still there, but something had been added. (They were corrupted.) This begs the question of just what was added that corrupted them. Look in the context in Genensis and you will find one word repeated, over and over in one form or another. They were naked and ashamed! Shame had entered them. This changed their personalities immediately.
Adam and Eve began trying to justify themselves by shifting blame for their fall to each other and God. This feeling of shame was new to them, and they wanted to be rid of it. They chose the wrong method instead of repenting and taking personal responsibility. This shame spirit has been in mankind ever since, as we also try to find ways to not feel ashamed of ourselves.
If you could go back to your childhood and observe all your reactions to the traumatic events, you would see that your main way to get thru life was to not let yourself be seen as shameful. If you carry this thought out to its end, you may see that our personalities were formed by the devil’s spirit of shame.
I just got a call, and have to leave immediately. I’ll try to get back to this later, as there is much more.. DavWms
Hi David,
I guess that leads up to the question about those who are guilty or evil or sinful, and are NOT ashamed of what they have done. At least shame demonstrates a conscience.
blessings
marianne
I think we have to look at shame from some different angles. First, we know that conviction of the Holy Spirit is a good shame, if we follow thru and repent. But there are other shames not so good. Maybe we need to know what bad shame comes from. Fear of rejection plays a heavy part. We know that lucifer brot the ultimate rejection on himself from pride overcoming his wisdom. He knows how much that hurts, and trries to instill fear of rejection in every child, without exception. He further works on getting children to resent being told what to do by those big adults. And further, he trains them to find ways to justify their wrongs. All this with the shame spirit becoming stronger in the child. Shame comes from feelings of being rejectable.
This combination works heavily in every child as they go thru what to them is trauma, when they are scolded or more. They feel out just how much they can get away with, without being seen as rejectable. This takes up their childhood, and is settled usually during their teens. Every thot or action they make is automatically preceeded by thots about not looking shameful in the eyes of others.
Even after salvation, this is hidden within Christians, and since it was all developed as children, they no longer know the beginnings, the “whys” they are like they are. We sometimes call this, “Baggage.”
I don’t want to write much more on this, as i wrote many more details in my book, “Walking With God” available free here on this site. It tries to show Biblically that even tho the devil is a spirit, he also “has” a spirit. Shame is the hidden name of his spirit. Just like God is Spirit, but He also “has” a Spirit named, “Love.”
Someone above talked about hate being the devil’s spirit. But hate is merely a symptom of shame… nuff for now. DavWms
Hi David,
You are talking about the unintended effects of discipline. There is real open shame from real rejection, where undeserved shame is imposed on an innocent party to destroy them. For example, slander, discrimination, persecution.
In this case, there is no cure, if the person stands alone, with no support or defense to be able to disprove the claim. This then is more than baggage. This is victimization.
marianne
Hi Marianne
Conscience:
Con= fraud
Science= developed or developing knowledge of sth.
Con-Science: Deep Knowledge about deceiving god (good and evil)
Conclusion (for me): The Tree of knowledge of Good and Evil gave us the con-science.
It works in every person, it is there, but the person who is commiting sin all day, got used to bad conscience, and sees it as normal.
The divine and universal Law is pressed into our hearts.
The holy Spirit makes our conscience working better.
His spirit -as the spirit witnesses us from him, and lets us feel him- reminds us of the Law about Good and Evil and his Punishment by him, the Great Just Judge.
The Law covers not anymore “Not to from that Tree”, it covers now
everything, either Good or Bad.
It is than as we betray our heavenly father, and indeed we do.
‘Gentiles’ are not in the familiar relationship with Yashua (or Yahweh) as we are. So it is not so bad for their conscience.
I dont know if its the same hebrew word in the orginal scripture, but between “to know” my wife and to know sth. good or bad seems to be a connection.
So that conclusion would be that,
If we are in oneness with Good, we know it. And vice versa.
…
_
Hi Mr. Williams, i read your book til the 5th chapter yet.
It is Very good! Thank you.
Marianne, right! My attempt is to show that even the unintended shame effect affects our personality growth. Many just let this pass over their head and assumwe they know different. Few will actually sit down and give it real pondering. Their “grownup” personality tells them they are OK now, since they are grown up. And they do not know shame formed the person they have become.
We have the verse from Jesus that tells us He took our shame. So yes, we can get into Heaven by that. But then comes the verses that tell us many are called, but few are chosen. The chosen ones will have seriously meant it when we asked God to find anything in us He is not pleased with. Most let that quest fade when hard trials come upon them. They do not know, (The churches fail them here) that the trials are to show us what is hidden in our hearts. In other words, the churches teach us to pray trials off ourselves, and to think we have defeated satan when it lifts.
The trials God sends will be exactly what we need to see our own hearts by our reactions to it. Often God will send people who do things to us that were done to us as kids. In this, we should not look at the evil they do to us, but look at how we react. This brings up childhood memories and we can see, if we look closely, that we took an methods to protect our shame, way back then. These methods are so instilled in us, we assume they are proper, and we cannot as grown ups see our traits that are ungodly. We have blinded ourselves to this.
Most will not like again being shown our shame. By its nature, shame wants to stay hidden. (Love wants to express itself.) People wonder why that under stress, they get angry, fearful, defiant, or whatever that is ungodlike. It is because this is still hidden in their hearts from childhood vows to someday “show all those people who pick on me.”
Words have power, even when they come from children. You may see that such words are vengeful, giving them even more power. They are promises to the devil that someday we will rise above those who “hurt” us. They can only be found in us by the help of the Holy Spirit bringing them back to our memory so we can renounce them.
My book shows that even our Bible heroes had this same problem. And I show it is Biblical, not from my imagination. It is there in the Bible to be seen, but few see it.
Thank you Silvanus… looks like you are after truth that few want to find. DavWms
So the picture I am trying to paint is similar to a Dr. who gives meds to cover the symptoms of a sickness without treating the source. When we get saved, our “symptoms” (sins and iniquity) are covered by Jesus’ blood, and we are headed for Heaven. But we all know something is still within us which causes us to have to act as tho we are not evil.
But those who answered the call (Narrow Gste) are actually taken to the source hidden within us. If they observe the trials accurately, they will find out why they still get hurt feelings, anger, fear of rejection, and many etc; It will expose why married couples find it so hard to get along with each other, and once this source is found, it can be eliminated and real love can come forth. You see, most married couples, if they choose to stay together, make compromises. Each learns not to step across certain boundaries that bring retaliation. It can come to look like love, but in truth it is an armed truce. “You don’t challenge my worth, and i won’t challenge yours.”
It is far better to find our childhood vows to never let anyone dominate us when we grow up. We do not even know our defenses against that are within us. We assume we are normal and in the right. Just admitting the defenses are there does not finish the work. You have to be taken back to the specific moment of vowing, by the Holy Spirit. Then when you have all the info you need, you can renounce what the demons told you with their still small voices as kids. It is life changing!
The demons did not likely accuse you or others outright, but spoke to us in the first person, as if we had heard our own thoughts. Kids are easily fooled by that. Once the demons have the wrong ways installed in us, they can sit back and watch us fumble thru life, never coming to really be like Jesus, for that is their goal… DavWms
Yes Satan does have a body!
All those who don’t have Jesus in their lives!
And he has a body of work that echoes down through history, all the darkness, hate and murder that he inspires in those who turn their backs on the Light!
Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
Also, Remember that Satan is not Omni-Present!!
Hi Chris
That is a good thought. In those days, the fallen angels were walking around more freely. Spirits do not “walk.” There must have been some kind of physical limitation, like a body of some sort.
blessings
marianne
Hi Glenn,
That is a good thought. Satan does not really need his own body, as much as the body of humans to do his work. That way, it does not look like it is him doing the destruction.
blessings
marianne
Let’s not forget that besides the devil, he has fallen angels and hosts of demons to do the one-on-one work against us. They can also keep the devil informed of any goings on in the world. We tend to forget this is a war. And the devil has his ranks of military, each with assignments. So he really does not need to be omni-present.
The churches have never come together against this enemy in a military fashion. Instead, they fight amongst each other and believe men’s traditions more than the Bible. You add any man’s tradition to a Bible truth and you get a corrupted message.
I see no Bible evidence the churches will ever get their act together. But meanwhile, the CHURCH is still being formed with set aside people who see thru the churches’ messages, and know they are being called out of what has become a Babylon. There are many modern Nimrods running our churches, trying to bring people under their corrupted influence. No, these Nimrods do not know what they are doing. They think they are doing God’s will.. DavWms
Marianne I do not wish to argue evolution with you, but I just want to correct your interpretation of “what scientists think”.
You said “Scientists consider this a “transitional” form for evolutionary evidence. Scientists think that the legs just “fell off” due to disuse. Why would a creature stop using their legs? This does not seem credible or logical. If true, why didn’t other “lazy” creatures lose their legs also? The science view makes no sense.”
This is not correct. The above idea is “Lamarckism”, an ancient theory which has been proved false by science long ago. You can look it up on wikipedia if you wish to know more.
Evolutionary theory for the evolution of snakes from legged creatures (lizards, lets say?) would be the following: Long ago there was a tribe of lizards. One day, a lizard was born with no legs (or very small legs), and so became a snake. (this is a mutation or birth defect). The snake did not die, but survived quite easily by crawling on his belly. He was able to mate with a lizard, and passed on his legless condition to some of his children, creating the snake species.
Even today, on most snakes you can find little stubs where the legs used to be.
are comments moderated? where is my comment?
Hi Dalit,
You got stuck in the spam folder. I took you out. I do not suppress comments. If it happens to you again, just be patient, and I will find and liberate you from the spam folder.
I usually quote a reference when I make statements I borrow. But this time, it must have been edited it out when I was working on this. The comment about transitional forms was actually from a web article where I got the pictures of the snake legs. I was quoting the scientist – anthropologist – who supplied the pictures. So I apologize for not providing the reference.
here it is now…..
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/04/najash_rionegrina_a_snake_with.php
read this…this is what I was disagreeing with.
blessings
marianne
Does Lucifer have a body? Is this an account of him when God Destroys him in the fiture?
Isa.14:7. The whole earth is at rest, [and] is quiet: they break forth into singing.
8. Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, [and] the cedars of Lebanon, [saying], Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.
9. Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet [thee] at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, [even] all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
10. All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou BECOME LIKE UNTO US?
11. Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, [and] the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the WORMS COVER THEE.
12. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13. For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14. I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15. Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16. They that see thee shall narrowly LOOK UPON THEE, [and] consider thee, [saying, Is] THIS THE MAN that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17. [That] made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; [that] opened not the house of his prisoners?