How the Apostles Died

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Do we have the strength and faith they did?

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Information sent to me in an email.

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1.  Matthew suffered martyrdom in Ethiopia , killed by a sword wound     
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2. Mark  died in Alexandria , Egypt , after being dragged by horses through the streets until he was dead.
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3. Luke was hanged in Greece as a result of his tremendous preaching to the lost.
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4.  John faced martyrdom when he was boiled in huge basin of boiling oil during a wave of persecution in Rome . However, he was miraculously delivered from death. John was then sentenced to the mines on the prison island of Patmos. He wrote his prophetic Book of Revelation on Patmos.

The apostle John was later freed and returned to serve as Bishop of Edessa in modern Turkey . He died as an old man, the only apostle to die peacefully.
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5. Peter was crucified upside down on an x-shaped cross. According to church tradition it was because he told his tormentors that he felt
unworthy to die in the same way that Jesus Christ had died.
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6. James (the Just) The leader of the church in Jerusalem, was thrown over a hundred feet down from the southeast pinnacle of the Temple when he refused to deny his faith in Christ.

When they discovered that he survived the fall, his enemies beat James to death with a fuller’s club. * This was the same pinnacle where Satan had taken Jesus during the Temptation.
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7.  James (the Great)  Son of Zebedee, was a fisherman by trade when Jesus called him to a lifetime of ministry. As a strong leader of the church, James was ultimately beheaded at Jerusalem.  The Roman officer who guarded James watched amazed as James defended his faith at his trial.

Later, the officer walked beside James to the place of execution. Overcome by conviction, he declared his new faith to the judge and knelt beside James to accept beheading as a Christian. 
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8.  Bartholomew (also known as Nathaniel) was a missionary to Asia. He witnessed for our Lord in present day Turkey . Bartholomew was martyred for his preaching in Armenia where he was flayed to death by a whip.
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9.  Andrew was crucified on an x-shaped cross in Patras, Greece. After being whipped severely by seven soldiers they tied his body to the cross with cords to prolong his agony. His followers reported that, when he was led toward the cross, Andrew saluted it in these words: ‘I have long desired and expected this happy hour. The cross has been consecrated by the body of Christ hanging on it.’ He continued to preach to his tormentors for two days until he expired.
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10.  Thomas was stabbed with a spear in India during one of his missionary trips to establish the church in the sub-continent.
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11.  Jude was killed with arrows when he refused to deny his faith in Christ.
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12.  Matthias the apostle chosen to replace the traitor Judas Iscariot, was stoned and then beheaded.
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13.  Paul was tortured and then beheaded by the evil Emperor Nero at Rome in A.D. 67. Paul endured a lengthy imprisonment, which allowed him to write his many epistles to the churches he had formed throughout the Roman Empire. These letters, which taught many of the foundational doctrines of Christianity, form a large portion of the New Testament.
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Perhaps this is a reminder to us that our sufferings here are indeed minor compared to the intense persecution and cold cruelty faced by the apostles/disciples during their times for the sake of the Faith.

And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake:  But he that endures to the end shall be saved.  Matthew 10:22

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Scriptural note:

Mark and Luke were not part of the original apostles, but were close disciples of Jesus.

The list of apostles are given in Matthew 10:

Mat 10:2   Now the names of the twelve apostles are these; The first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James [the son] of Zebedee, and John his brother;

Mat 10:3   Philip, and Bartholomew; Thomas, and Matthew the publican; James [the son] of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus;

Mat 10:4   Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed him.

The names Lebbaeus Thaddaeus and Simon are not listed in the original list sent me. 

Jude, who is listed, is generally identified with Thaddeus, and is also variously called Jude of James, Jude Thaddaeus, Judas Thaddaeus or Lebbaeus.

According to the Armenian tradition, Saint Jude suffered martyrdom about 65 AD in Beirut, in the Roman province of Syria, together with the apostle Simon the Zealot, with whom he is usually connected. Their acts and martyrdom were recorded in an Acts of Simon and Jude that was among the collection of passions and legends traditionally associated with the legendary Abdias, bishop of Babylon.

The apostle called Simon Zelotes, Simon the Zealot, in Luke 6:15 and Acts 1:13; and Simon Kananaios or Simon Cananeus was one of the most obscure among the apostles of Jesus. Little is recorded of him aside from his name.

To distinguish him from Simon Peter, he is called Kananaios, or Kananites (Matthew 10:4; Mark 3:18), and in the list of apostles in Luke 6:15, repeated in Acts 1:13, Zelotes, the "Zealot".

Tradition has that he was martyred, but the type of death is speculated.


58 Responses to “How the Apostles Died”

  1. Thanks, Marianne. Was thinking on their sacrifice recently. So happy to have the record of their deaths.

    Carolyn

  2. They don’t preach this anymore. Now they preach you are great and suppose to have stuff. No mention of suffering for Christ or denying ones self for the kingdom.

    I don’t know if I could suffer as the apostles but this I do know, “with the Holy Ghost’s help I will gladly yield my members.”
    I have already told my wife, and we both agree, that the time may come when we will have to die for Christ, and we are in agreement
    “the Lord’s will be done!”

    • hi Rev Williams

      I wonder about my future fate as well. Whatever it is, it will be. My hope is to go in a rapture, but the reality of the Word says there will be martyrdom during the 5th seal.

      • It is this testimony that will reach the world with Gospel. If it is the Lords will to use my testimony to bring others to the Joy that comes from knowing God then so be it. O death where is thy victory, I just hope and pray I can bring as many people with me to God’s kingdom as possible If my time comes to suffer the apostles fate.
        To God be the glory…

  3. Marianne, check out your answer your pic cut off your “5th seal” answer.

    Do you have a link already on your site about that? I am interested in it. Been praying a lot getting a lot of good messages from above; and sadness as well. So bad, when I pray I feel that sadness and I break down in tears.

    I highly recommend this book to any who study the Holy Bible or wanna get a gist of it: “The Complete Guide To The Bible” by Stephen M. Miller.

    One of the things that I DO like is that it lets you know where (approximately or in reality) events took place, i.e., Jordan, Israel, so on and so forth.

    • hi Johanna

      The 5th seal is a very serious subject, but as you point out, it should be discussed. I don’t have a post on it yet, but maybe it is time.

      I think the fact that you got a study bible is a good thing. You can learn a lot from the commentaries. I have one too.

  4. These men were selected by the word made flesh. When Pentacost occured, it gave them the tongues for other countries, and strength both physical, and mental to carry out what G-d knew the world would murder. These men are to be Honored.

    It is now the time as it was for Noah. Although, we are to share our faith, we are to repuke the false teachings of evil men.

    The Amish will turn the other cheek forever. I will not.

    • “and strength both physical, and mental to carry out what G-d knew the world would murder.”

      Hey leatherneck,

      The Holy Spirit is still being “poured out” so as to be our comforter and to give strength (physical and mental). As well as giving us languages/His language/tongues :)

      We need Him now more then ever EVER.

      Mark 13:11Whenever you are arrested and brought to trial, do not worry beforehand about what to say. Just say whatever is given you at the time, for it is not you speaking, but the Holy Spirit.

      John 16:2 They will put you out of the synagogue; in fact, a time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God.

      Acts 2:17″‘In the LAST DAYS, God says, I will pour out my Spirit on all people. Your sons and daughters will prophesy, your young men will see visions, your old men will dream dreams.

  5. The above is what Christian tradition teaches.

    Let’s compare it to what the first century Rabbi Y’hoshua ha-Mashiach of Nazareth taught.

    Ribi Yehoshua (Aramaic: Yeshua) – the Mashiach [Messiah] [0] – of Nazareth was called a Ribi – a title similar to ‘Rabbi’ – even by his opponents. That title implies that Ribi Yehoshua had semikhah – rabbinic ordination. Only Pharisees had this rabbinic ordination. This implies that Ribi Yehoshua was a Pharisee. Read further documentation on this link .

    He never lost this good standing and his followers the Netzarim were also in good standing in the Pharisaic Jewish community [Documentation].

    This logically implies that all of their teachings were in accordance with Torah.

    And that they must have taught this: “So this is what the Mashiakh – Messiah – must have taught about how to get a relationsship with the Creator:

    As stipulated in Devarim ["Deuteronomy"] 6:4-9,11:13-21 one is required to keep all of the directives of Torâh′ to one’s utmost—viz., “with all one’s heart, psyche and might [lit. "very"]“—”for the purpose of extending your days and the days of your children… like the days of the heavens above the earth” (i.e., eternal life). According to the Tan’’kh -Yekhezeqeil ["Ezekiel"] chapter 18 et.al – the Creator confer His atonement in His loving kindness to those and only those turning away from their Torah-transgressions and (re)turning to non-selectively Torah-observance including mishpat.”

    Since NT contradicts Torah, they can impossibly have taught the NT. The authors of NT is also the authors of what happened to the “apostles”.

    However, historical documentation (see link above) proves that the followers of Ribi Y’hoshua stuck with Torah all of their lifetimes. This logically implies that Christian tradition is wrong and unreliable.

    I recommend you all to do your utmost to follow the teachings of Rabbi Y’hoshua and he taught Torah. This will lead you into an immensely meaningful relationship with the Creator.

    All the best,
    Anders Branderud

    • I recommend you think about why, and for what those men willingly died. It is called the word made flesh, lived a perfect life, murdered, and rose from the dead for human sin. You can not get to the Father any other way.

      Right now, you are blind, but soon your eyes will be opened.

      G-d’s speed,

    • Hi Anders,

      Have you read the New Testament?

      Have you compared the New Testament with the Torah?

      and specifically the book Isaiah?

      • Hi Lindsey,

        Yes, I was a devoted Christian for six years and have studied the NT much.

        Comparision between Y’shayahu ['Isaiah'] and NT:

        Let’s study the prophecy of Yeshayahu – ‘Isaiah’ – 7- 9:
        “It’s essential to understand that this passage was originally interpreted in its historical setting. That understanding remained unchanged for nearly a millennium and Scripture informs us that the Creator doesn’t change. The original meaning is the only true understanding.

        The prophet Yeshayahu wrote this passage ca. BCE 720 relative to the king Âkhâz (Isaiah 7.1). The child Yeshayahu names in 9.5 prophesies a wonderful and righteous son of the disappointing and evil Akhaz: the king Khizqiyâh (see Melâkhim Beit [“2 Book of Kings] 18.3-8; 20.2ff; Divrei ha-Yâmim Beit [2:nd chronicles] 31.1-4). Nor was Yeshayahu the only Nâvi -prophet – prophesying about the blasphemous rule of Âkhâz and the cleansing of Israel by his son, the king Khizqiyâh. the prophet Hosheia (see 1.1ff) and the prophet Mikhah (see 1.1ff) were proclaiming parallel prophecies.“ [1]

        If you read the prophecy in Isaiah 7-9 in Hebrew and related verses of the Hebrew Bible you will see that king Hizkiah was a partial fulfilment of that prophecy and he was a human, and not divine, nor a ‘Saviour’. Thus, neither the Messiah would be divine, nor a ‘Saviour’. The historical Messiah called Rabbi Yeshua taught his followers to pray to the Creator, not to pray to Jesus. One is forbidden to pray to any human according to Torah; and one is forbidden to pray to or worship Jesus.

        Clearly the Jewish Mashiakh – Messiah – is not the same as what is described in the NT.

        Note 1. Link ; History Museum (left menu); Mashiakh (top menu); Documentation found in the page, including the section “Mâshiakh of Tana”kh Subverts Tana”kh to be the Mâshiakh?”.

        I recommend you to all learn and study the Torah in Hebrew, and you will find out about the contradictions between the Torah and NT.

        Kind regards, Anders

        • Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Imman’u-el. Mt. 1.23
          15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.

          Matthew 1:20But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. 21She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus,c because he will save his people from their sins.”

          22 All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: 23“The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel”d—which means, “God with us.”

          Isaiah 9:6For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

          Anders,

          How were you able to misunderstand the prophecy given in Isaiah to the prophecy fulfilled in Matthew?

          • Lyndsey,

            I haven’t misunderstood the prophecy.

            Here is Hebrew transliteration and translation following etymology, cantillation and Biblical grammar:

            (wa-yiqrâ shәmo Pëlë yoeitz Eil Jibor; avi-ad sar- shâlom; “and he called his name ‘Wonder,’ a counselor of Eil Jibor; My Father is until [i.e. forever], a minister of peace”).

            It prophecies about a human Mashiakh ['Messiah'].

            “Ha-Sheim doesn’t change (Malâkhi 3.6; Tәhilim 89.35). The meaning of this passage from BCE 720 cannot have changed. For more than 8 centuries after Yәshayâhu proclaimed this prophecy, Messianic implications remained strictly within Torâh constraints, envisioning a mortal human king patterned after Khizqiyâh ha-mëlëkh – whom NO one regarded as a ‘divine son savior’!!! For these first 8 centuries, NO one in Yisrâ·eil would have even imagined that this prophecy by a Torâh-teaching Nâvi patterned his prophecy after the Egyptian Isis and Horus!!!” [Quote

            Why don’t you study Biblical grammar, cantillation and Hebrew according to etymology, but instead rely on translations?
            I study all of these!

            I recommend you to start observing Torah, just as my posts including links proves that the historical Rabbi Y’hoshua and his followers the Netzarim did. Only this will according to Torah lead a person into an immensly meaningful relationsship with the Creator and His forgiveness in His loving kindness.

            Kind regards, Anders

        • Anders,
          Read Zechariah 12:10-13:1. I am curious to know how the Jewish people interpret this text. I see Jesus written in there, but I am a Christian so that is understandable.
          God bless.

          • Dru,
            Zәkharyâh 12.9-10

            9 “It shall be that on that day I will request להשמיד all of the goyim that are coming upon Yәrushâlayim. 10 Then they shall gaze toward Me, את אשר דקרו, and they shall mourn bitterlyעליו as one mourns bitterly for היחיד, for הבכור…” (See also and The Nәtzârim Reconstruction of Hebrew Matityâhu (NHM) 24.31 with notes.)

            Christians claim an anthropomorphic equating of “Me” (ha-Sheim) with “Whom they pierced” (the Mâshiakh Bën-Yoseiph [i.e. first century Rabbi Y'hoshua]). Christians argue this as a basis to equate their Jesus with, l’-havdil [to differentiate], ha-Sheim. However, that equation doesn’t follow from the Hebrew according to etymology.

            Here follow a translation of some of the Hebrew used in Zecharyah 12:9-10:

            את אשר דקרו
            את, eit, with
            asher; which, whom
            daqaru: they pierced; stabbed, perforated (Note: it was Hellenist Roman gentiles [see v. 9], not Jews, who hammered the nails and thrust the spear into the side of Ribi Yehoshua.
            עליו: over, upon, concering, about him (not Me)
            יחיד: sole, lone (masc, i.e. son)
            להשמיד: to destroy, especially by conversion and assimilation, forcibly apostatize or convert, exterminate.

            The above text was based upon a quote of the website of Netzarim in Ra’anana in Israel.

            My comments: The above verse speaks about those whom are coming upon Yerushalayim to destroy Am Yisraeil – People of Israel – by converting to change the lifestyle of the Jews, which is to observe Torah non-selectively to their utmost.

            As I proved in my previous comments above the NT teaches against Torah about how the Creator commands mankind to live.

            In Z’khariah 12:9-10 in Hebrew numbering, the Torah-observant Jewish Mashiakh, Rabbi Y’hoshua, is mentioned – a human Mashiakh [Messiah], not an “incarnate man-god”.

            All the best!
            Shalom, Anders

            • Anders,
              So if this is referring to someone historical, from the second temple period, where is the fountain talked about in verse 13:1? and how does this fountain have the power to cleanse sin?

              If as you say This is referring to those who come against Israel, then why would Israel be Mourning their death? Especially in such a solemn way?

              Jesus came not to destroy the Law, but to fulfill the Law. To put an end to the sacrifices required in the temple, So that you can Wash your sins in a fountain.! The only sacrifice required was his blood on the cross. But in order for this sacrifice to be final, you must believe that Jesus was God incarnate. That is why he said “it is finished” as he hung on the cross.

              God bless.

              • Also Anders
                If you get a chance, the concept of the trinity is one you should research. “HOLY, HOLY, HOLY is the Lord God almighty.” this speaking in threes is hinting at the nature of God. One God, in three forms. God the father the “being” form, God the son, His Word, and the holy spirit, Or God within us.

              • Dru,

                It is referring to Rabbi Y’hoshua ha-Mashiakh – the Messiah. He was a human, not an incarnated man-god. He was born 7 b.c.e. He was crucified by the Romans 30 c.e. His father was Yoseiph [Hellenized to Joseph] and his mother was called Miriam. His teachings got redacted by Hellenists. His original teachings were found in Hebrew Matityahu [‘Matthew’].

                It talks about Am Yisraeil realizing that Rabbi Y’hoshua was the Mashiakh ben Yoseiph. It has nothing to do with the Christian Jesus, which is a counterfeit image of the historical Rabbi called Y’hoshua. Learn more about the difference in this article: Link

                Comment to your last paragraph:
                It is important to note this: According to the prophecy in Isaiah 9:6 in Hebrew according to the Hebrew numbering (which differs from the Christian), the Messiah would teach his followers to observe the directives of the Torah – the books of Moses. The word ‘mishpat’ is used, which implies non-selective observance of the directives of the Torah to a person’s utmost.

                Thus, the Jewish Mashiakh [‘Messiah’] did NOT come to put an end to the sacrificies. Mankind was still required to do their utmost to fulfil the mitzwah [military-style order] of Torah to do the sacrifices outlined in wa-Yiqra [‘Levicitus’]. You prove that the ‘messiah’ you follow is not the Jewish Mashiakh, since your ‘messiah’ contradicted the Torah.

                As I said, he historical Jewish Mashiakh was a human, not an incarnate man-god, as I have demonstrated in another comment on this blog.

                So this is what the Mashiakh – Messiah – must have taught about ‘salvation’:

                As stipulated in Devarim ["Deuteronomy"] 6:4-9,11:13-21 one is required to keep all of the directives of Torâh′ to one’s utmost—viz., “with all one’s heart, psyche and might [lit. "very"]“—”for the purpose of extending your days and the days of your children… like the days of the heavens above the earth” (i.e., eternal life). According to the Tan’’kh -Yekhezeqeil ["Ezekiel"] chapter 18 et.al – the Creator confer His atonement in His loving kindness to those and only those turning away from their Torah-transgressions and (re)turning to non-selectively Torah-observance including mishpat.

                May you be blessed by the Creator when you start doing your utmost to obey the mitzwot of His Torah non-selectively.

                Regards, Anders

    • hello Anders

      Yehoshua was “the Torah.” He was the living Word of God. What he taught was consistent with the Torah, but interpretations of what he said has presented most of the problems. It is unfortuanate that people add and take away from what he said, which is not to happen. God bless you.

    • Dear Anders, I agree with a lot of your concerns. Many of the countless translations have a poor comprehension of the idiom of the time (and ancient Hebrew language!) in which the apostles lived and in the process ‘anglicizing’ many of the original Word bound truths. I have read the NT in many translations and have come to a point where the incongruities contain in them, are to much for me to stomach. However, in its purest form, closest to the original Hebrew and oldest manuscripts found, there is no contradiction (in NT) to what is taught in the Tanak. Just search for NT translations that have search for the undiluted truth, and the truth shall set you free.
      Shalom. PS. Try finding The Scriptures (http://www.isr-messianic.org/). I believe you will enjoy ‘The Word of YAH, The Kings Covenant (www.originalscriptures.com) – this is also refreshing and insightful. God bless.

      • Dear Dawid,

        What do you say of this quote?

        “The Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible:

        “It is equally true that many of them do have theological significance and were introduced into the text intentionally… Many thousands of the variants which are found in the MSS of the NT were put there deliberately. They are not merely the result of error or careless handling of the text. Many were created for theological or dogmatic reasons—even though they may not affect the substance of Christian dogma. [Thanks for reminding us that Christians made Christian redactions compatible with Christian dogma; ybd]). It is because the books of the NT are religious books, sacred books, canonical books, that they were changed to conform to what the copyist believed to be the true reading. His interest was not in the ‘original reading’ but in the ‘true reading’”

        (ibid.)—as perceived by the Roman Christian redactors, of course. (Emphasis added and quoted from Who Are the Netzarim? (WAN))

        The Nәtzâr•im′ never changed their mind about it, maintaining that only the Jewish Ta•na”kh′ is Scripture and only their own The Nәtzâr•im′ Hebrew Ma•tit•yâh′u (NHM) was a legitimate account of the life and teachings of Rib′i Yәho•shu′a.

        The Netzâr•im′ haven’t changed from this position, and won’t change from this position.” [Quote]

        The available evidence proves that NT is diluted. Furthermore, as I demonstrated above the teachings of Paul contradicts Torah.

        One of your translations uses Textus receptus as base.

        “Textus Receptus; “Received Text” (1624 C.E.). The Greek text rendered from the earlier English—’King James Version’—of 1611 C.E. by the Anglican Church of England.
        TR occasionally diverges from all early source mss. TR is also known as the Elzevir text.”

        I demonstrated above that the NT contradicts Torah. Torah is the truth and has set me free! However, NT contradicts Torah e.g. about how to live in order to receive the forgiveness of the Creator, and will thus not set a person free and will not lead a person into an immensly meaningful and real relationsship with the Creator.

        All the best,
        Anders Branderud

        • Anders, I agree with your first paragraph that there were definitely ‘hidden’ agendas when the mostly Roman inspired translators worked on the original manuscripts. However, I also believe that a lot of words and concepts were just ‘mistranslate’ because of a lack of deep insight, respect, and knowledge of the Hebrew language and culture … ignorance also comes to mind.

          Concerning The Scriptures, yes they used the oldest and most consistently reliable Textus Reseptus manuscripts available, therefore some agreement with KJV. I feel it is definitely more truthful than the other ‘sources’ used by NIV and stalwarts.

          The death and resurrection of Y’shua HaMasiach ensured a new dispensation, establishing a (re)new covenant of grace … apostle Paul being the champion of this. I love Paul, he has been unfortunately mistranslated and misinterpreted by Roman church and baptist/charismatic churches to fit dogma. However in its original context (read grace), I believe Paul’s interpretation of the Torah is correct … read Hebrews (I fully believe he is the author of this wonderful Book).

          This is how far I can go without my glasses on. Shalom and have a great weekend!

  6. I often wonder about our sources since a very evil city at one time only let us know what they wanted us to know. Was it Daniel’s Angel that said the truth was cast down on the ground. I really don’t memorize every word in the bible since I might misquote something, here in China I don’t have a bible yet so I need a little help from my friends. Can you tell I was 12 when the Beatles came to America? I really doubt the early church fathers writing, it so Catholic I think. (as is my opinion) Does anybody else also have any info on any proof that we should take these writing as gospel. History has found her a liar, and guilty of forgery. It is amazing what has been added to and taken away down through the years. If it wasn’t a problem why would the spirit curse those with the plagues in Rev. if it were not a problem. I will venture to say that maybe even Rev it self has been muddied despite the warning. I do now that certain translations say very different things than other translators. So is the word of God not correct. Did say that, but I do know that not everyone has handled it correctly. Catholics come to mind or Rome. Do I protest the Rome Catholic Church? Yes, that’s why I am a Protestant, I am very protestant. Just ask me and I will tell you. I am not sure if I am getting out of line on this site as their are no rules. Are there?

    • Lanny
      I think the Holy Spirit has protected the Word of God quite well.
      The writings above are from church tradition and not all biblical, and yes they could have been “altered” or “misrepresented”. I think the mistake people make is focusing on how the apostles died, and not why the apostles died. They were unwilling to compromise on the Gospel of Jesus. This is the example we should follow. Though the apostles had different opinions on how we should live our lives as Christians (we see hints of these in the bible), they all held to the truth of the gospel.

      As for the Rules on this sight, you will have to ask Marianne, from what I can tell, being respectful of those with different beliefs is one of them.

    • hi Lanny

      The “golden rule” applies here on the site. And demonstrate good christian behavior.

      The various “translations” of the bible all say the same thing. The wording has been improved to make comprehension simpler.

      • NIV-new international version is as far as I go with using translations. Anything after that seems to get further away from the original translation and even 1 particular verse is omitted in one translation-can’t remember which one but the verse is as follows:

        1 John 5:6 This is the one who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 7For there are three that testify: 8thea Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.

        If you don’t see this verse in the translation then it is not an authentic translation. just fyi :)

        • I think you had a Jehovah’s witness bible? I could see them having trouble with verse7. ESV KJV NIV all have it. I don’t have others to verify

  7. Thanks for the advice, I will try to be nice. Do you have a thread on bible translation? I have studied this subject, let’s just say closely.After being in China for a half a year and trying to learn Hanyu I therefore understand perfectly the problems a translator would have trying to make someone understand who doesn’t know that language. It’s a tough business for sure. I remember back in the King James/New International Version Days. AKA KJV NIV days, maybe 1970 and into the 80′s. I am not convince that debate is really over yet. Talk about crossing one theology. WOW That was my motive in the research I did. It was a heavy duty controversy. I remember during that era there was a joke that when out as follows. If the King James Version was good enough for the Apostle Paul, then it is good enough for me. What was surprising is that some people did not take that as a joke, they agreed with Paul. Of course you understand that The Apostle Paul was long dead before the year 1611 when the King of England commissioned experts in the Greek language. I recommend for research the book “The KING JAMES VERSION DEBATE” 1979 D A Carson It is about the men behind the King James Translation of the bible. It’s a good place to start. I believe the motive is for realism. It has something to say about that verse about the word, the water, the blood etc. etc. After throughly investigating bible translations and Church history, and the Rome Catholic history, I am very Leary to believe anything with a Catholic fingerprint on it. Why because I don’t believe they have handled the word of God correctly. add to take away comes to mind. Shocking, yes, but if you study you can understand a lot of things that were added to and taken away thanks to your Holy Spirit. The serpent is wise, I suggest you be like him, except in a good way, not an evil way. “Wise as an serpent” If you don’t find out things yourself then for sure every whim of doctrine will toss you to and fro like the waves of the sea. I repeat the wise words of our Saviour who’s motive was to save us by what he said to us. Save yourself from this untoward (difficult to guide) generation.

    • dear Lanny

      The old testament should agree with the Jewish version, which is translated from Hebrew and Aramaic.

      The new testament should be internally consistent, verified by spiritual witness and the holy spirit, and also historical records, where possible.

      All of the word should be taken literally unless it is obvious there is symbolism involved. Much faulty doctrine is due to interpretation, not what is actually written. Then the symbolism should be described elsewhere for a better interpretation.

  8. Well, Lindsey thanks. Let’s face it sometimes complexity is hidden in simplicity. Let me give you an example: It is what it is, unless it isn’t. Sounds complex right. It’s really simple. It’s just we need to hang in there till we understand if it is or it is not. Try the spirits to see if they are of God. Right? Why believe anything if you don’t understand it. Just throw it on the back burner till it comes to you. This is what the Sovereign LORD, the Holy One of Israel, says: “In repentance and rest is your salvation, in quietness and trust is your strength, but you would have none of it. Please have a rest, trust the Lord, be quite and don’t ever forget to repent. This was the Jews down fall, they would have none of that simplicity stuff. The simplicity of the gospel was to repent of your sins. In frustration Paul turned to the gentile, because the Jews would have none of it.

  9. Yes, there are very few real differences in most of the translations of the bible. My favorite is the new international version because it speaks my language and reads the best I think. I don’t speak old English which was the language of 1611. I am not afraid to read any translation.The JW’s prints their own Greek version. I hate to tell everyone but I heard that the King James didn’t like the puritan bible so he when out and had his own version printed up. It’s always good to be the king right. People find out some things, don’t just believe every Spirit. Try them to see if they are of God. Are there mistakes in the bible? I suggest you find out. There is plenty of info waiting for your time to be spent learning. We spend hours watching TV movies that are nothing but a big fat waste of our time, why not spend time finding out some things on your own. Here is a little exercise for you. Which version do you like the best, KJV commandments or NIV wash

    In Rev the kings men say:

    11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

    12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

    13I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.

    14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

    The modern day group say:
    10 Then he told me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is near. 11 Let the one who does wrong continue to do wrong; let the vile person continue to be vile; let the one who does right continue to do right; and let the holy person continue to be holy.”

    12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

    14 “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

    These two versions are about as different as you can get. So who is right, I like the wash thingy, nothing but the blood for me.
    Hey find out why people. If you chase that rabbit hole far enough you will find out why.

  10. Dear Lanny,

    Praise God to everyone who opens his eyes and or lifts his ear to hear the word of God.

    Here is a suggestion when you need a translation from the word,
    http://bible.cc/searchlibrary.php?q=kjv+bible. This electronic site provides the KJV and all others along with concordance.

    I trust in the KJV for being the most accurate as I am told by Rabbi’s that it is closest to the language it is transcribed from.

    You have great mind to make the statement that you made to Lyndsey. When our mind is upon God he is with us. It says in the word we can do all things through Christ who strengthens us.

    So be blessed, I am moving on to comment on this information prepared by Marianne regarding the Apostles.

    Jesus told Peter if they crucified him what would they do to us?

    We are blessed that God made it that the steps of a righteous man are ordered, and that according to the word in Jeremiah he has a plan for our life.

    These men entered the race that Jesus set before them and they stayed the course to the finish. To know to read and to love our Lord you can not be but sorrowful for them but filled with happiness that the things they will partake of are not worldly that it should rust or become moth eaten but that it be of a world never ending with God who is Lord and savior through his life as Jesus Christ.

    Marianne be blessed for keeping in the minds and hearts of man the price that was paid for this great faith.

    • The first Adam was a living soul and the second Adam a life-giving Spirit. For a world enslaved by satanic principles and by a mere biological cycle of birth – life – death this was surely difficult to grasp, and they would kill those who dared break (transcend) this cycle.

  11. Information sent in by email about St Thomas

    Hi,

    His route was like this, he first went to southern Arabia near the Yemen/Oman region (where lot of Jews also were living) then to the Island of Socotra, which was an important trading post for Jewish and Arab traders trading with Persia and Indian coast lines.

    He then moved on to Persia/Afghanistan region to preach to the Jews living there and to the gentiles (to the Jew first and the gentile ) the good news, and later was recalled bringing a Hindu king named Gondparhanes (if that’s the spelling) to Christ, and coins were discovered basically marking thomas and this king’s story.

    He then moved down to the coast of Pakistan/Iran and took the ship to Malabar (south western India), to to the Jews who had settled in the port towns there as traders, he brought some Jews to Christ there then the Hindu brahmins , In AD 54 he arrived there.

    After that 20 years of preaching in that hard area , he moved eastwards were he finally was killed as he was heading towards the sea port probably to take the ship to Malaca/China/South East asia?

    Most of the above is recorded in traditions/trade journals .

    I don’t buy the acts of Thomas or anything of that sort as I am careful o go beyond the scriptures, but historical and secular sources, also from ancient hindu kings and scribes have recorded his arrival.

    Muslims also can be proven false when they say , only Paul invented the “crucifixion lie”, actually Thomas already preached to the Hindus and others of the “risen and resurrected God, whose hands he touched and saw the wound marks”.

    This multiple witnesses from apostles themselves recorded as testimonies in the courts of ancient pagan kings, should also challenge the false assertions put forward by Muslims who direct most of their anger to Paul.

    The tragedy of St thomas mission to India eventually came long after his martyrdom, when the cunning Nestorians living in Persia and Antioch fled persecution there and took the ships to Malabar coast , there they saw the struggling st Thomas Christians around 300 AD, so as the history states in most churches there

    These nestorians led by a man named Thomas of Kanai (nestorian believers), arrived and “took over the church “, and introduced nestorian teachings. Also introduced racialist view points in which the “Jewish converts” and “Brahmin convertS” must keep their “blood line pure” and not bring in any more converts.

    As a result St thomas Christianity in India remained only in the Malabar region, never spread outwards, they took over this whole thing of “We are Thomas’ children” blah blah, iconified him, made him into an idol. They also made treaties with Hindu kings and adopted Hindu practices “to blend in”, to include astrology and many other things.

    It was so for 1,500 years , until the Portuguese Catholics arrived via sea by vasco di gama.

    They fought the Arabs off the coast to take the monopoly, to gain monopoly of trade with Hindus then the Portuguese soldiers and priests discovered these ‘ancient st thomas Christians”, a “primitive form of Christianity mixed in with paganism” thriving there, basically confirming the arrival of St Thomas, as they went inland.

    They were horrified to see the paganism of these “Syrian Christians” as they called them, (they did their liturgy in Syriac language). Strangely the portugese themselves were following a heavily paganized form of Christianity, unfortunately it is about politics and rome.

    The portugese then attacked the Syrian Christians of India, demanded that they join Rome, most of the Syrian Christians already bloated with hinduism and nestorianism were shocked, some sought the help of Hindu kings to fight the portugese off, the other group eventually joined Rome and known as the Syrian Catholic church (eastern rite).

    The one that did not submit became the Orthodox church.

    Some reforms did come, cleaned up their old pagan practices and adopted rome’s practices.

    In all this, Thomas the apostle became a deep victim, forgotten, and his death buried.

    So in simple words, Thomas is the 2nd most important person to me , after Christ. I owe him a lot for bringing the gospel there into those regions and suffering immensely under pagans.

    A lot of the history can be found on the websites of the various “traditional” churches of India, Iran etc.

    I also believe, God will never forget his tears and sacrifices, and will raise young men and women to rebuild his legacy in Asia Pacific.

    Had the nestorians not come, and the early Christians there did the job properly, most of Asia would have been greatly Christianized.

    - submitted by a heaven awaits member

  12. HI Anders

    What do you think of this verse, and how you do interpret it?

    Mic 5:2 ¶ But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, [though] thou be little among the thousands of Judah, [yet] out of thee shall he come forth unto me [that is] to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth [have been] from of old, from everlasting.

    if Jesus was only a human man, how can he have “goings from old, from everlasting?” sounds like he has been around a long time.!

  13. Anders
    I am going to go in adifferent direction so I hope you can follow me. The law is to be followed rigorously, and with all our hearts, I agree with this statement. But we (all of us) fall short of this no matter what. Even those who keep the Law as did the Pharisees, fell victim to their own self righteousness. This is because we are all born with the sin of Adam, the Original sin.

    This is why the Jewish people had to offer sacrifices for their sins. Because all those sacrifices could do was appease our sinful acts, but did nothing to change our sinful hearts. What then would it take to change or transform our sinful hearts?

    It would first of all take a perfect sacrifice. This sacrifice would have to be fully human in order for it to change the human condition. But since all humans are born in sin, no human, not even an infant sacrifice could reverse the sin of Adam which is written on our hearts. I am pretty sure you agree with this statement?
    The only sacrifice that could accomplish an end to our sinfulness is a God coming down, in human form, born of a virgin, therefore hving no sinful seed, living on this earth as with human flesh, prone to temptation as a human, and yet living a perfect life. God did not have to do this, for humanity was condemned already, but because he is God, and God is love, he chose to be merciful and show his grace to mankind. He made this sacrifice on the cross, rejected by man, in the most humiliating and painful way to die, and that shed blood on the cross, that fully human, and fully divine blood was sufficient to cover all sin, and can transform our hearts so that we truly love the lord our God with all our hearts. This act of God defies human Logic, and takes faith on our parts to believe. Although I could give you dozens of scriptures from the old an new testaments, It still requires faith to believe it.
    So did God die there on the cross? no, and yes. He took upon himself the just punishment for all our sins, by going through death, but on third day, he arose! Jesus arose in the glorified body, showing us that through Christ Jesus we can have victory over the grave, and death. That Jesus blood has the ability to wash away our sins, and we only have to believe in him.

    Thus the two caveats of Christianity: Repentence: The belief that we are unable to save ourselves, That no matter how “good” we are, we cannot transform our hearts. and Belief: believe that Jesus was Divine. And this is the gift of God for humanity. All we have to do is believe in our hearts by faith, that this is true.

    There is also another Gift which we as Christians get. This is the gift of the Holy spirit. I john 1:4-12 says “For everyone who has been born of God (born again or transformed) overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world (sinfullness)- OUR FAITH. 5.Who is it that overcomes the World except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? 6. This is he who came by water and blood-Jesus Christ; Not by the water only, but by the water and blood. and the SPIRIT is the one who testifies, because the spirit is the TRUTH. 7.For there are THREE that testify: 8. The Spirit and the water and the blood; and these three agree. 9.If we receive the testimony of men (as in court), the testimony of God is greater, for this is the testimony of God that he has borne concerning his son. 10 whoever believes in the Son of God has the Testimony IN HIMSELF. Whoever does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son. 11.And this is the testimony , That god GAVE us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12.Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son, does not have life (death and sin).”
    In other words, when we are born again by faith, we receive the Holy Spirit within us, This Spirit is God, and testifies in our hearts the truth and power of the Gospel. Now, I can argue with you till I am blue in the face about the testimony of the Holy spirit which we receive as a gift from God at Baptism, but if you cannot believe the testimony of God by faith, you will remain condemned already. I, myself, am sure of the truth of Jesus divinity, because of the Holy spirit in me. The blood of Christ has washed away all of my sins, and Adam’s sin in me, and the Spirit in me is the “proof” I need to maintain my belief.

    Does that mean that we Christians do not sin? By no means. But as we grow as Christians, the desires of the flesh, are replaced by the desires of the Spirit, and the work of the Spirit through god’s grace transforms our hearts to pure hearts. In other words, we no longer obey the law because we are reqired to do so, but because we want to, In order to show our love and gratefullness to God for his sacrifice. As Psalm 50:23 says “The one who offers thanksgiving as his sacrifice glorifies Me (God); to one who Orders his way rightly, I (God) will will show the ‘Salvation of God’!” !!!
    May God be glorified:

  14. to Marianne and Johanna
    Christians are right now rounded up in China, one day after Julia Gillard’s PM visit, where she granted access to Chinese Navy to come and have a good look at our Ports and we even plat war-games with you !!
    In Africa, can’t remember if it was Ethiopia or Sudan ??, where the north is Muslim and the south Christian that wanted to divide the country to live in peace. Also in many other African countries
    Christians suffered and were/are killed etc.
    I am also thinking much about what my test will be, being old and
    very fragile, if they push me over, that’s it, can’t get up anymore….
    Ed

    • Ed
      Isaiah 40:29 “He gives power to the faint, and to him who has no might He increases strength.”
      A verse that helped me get through some trying times, and a good one to memorize. God Bless

  15. Marianne
    I proposed on another post, that the twelve apostles were appointed to preach to and have twelve apostles of their own.
    And then those 144 would reach another 12 each. If we Christians can bring ourselves together to accomplish this, assuming a One month time frame for preaching the Gospel, if all twelve accept the Gospel, it would take 9 months to reach all the worlds population. if we had a 33% success rate, it would take 13 months.

    Now I know there are more than 12 Christians out there, so this could even be quicker. Obviously there are cultural difficulties in accomplishing this, But when it says in revalation that the Gospel will be heard throughout the world, this is the way to do it.

    You have a wonderful tool, with this site to reach other parts of the globe with the message of the Gospel, if we can all stay focused on spreading the gospel, it will be accomplished.

    Every person who comes on this site, should be presented with the gospel, Especially from those countries where Christianity is in the minority. If they come to accept Christ, encourage them to share their faith with twelve others in their country.

    I say this so as to honor the sacrifice Jesus’ original apostles made, as stated in this post, not as a mandate. But if we are honest with ourselves, we Christians are either not doing our part in sharing the Gospel, or we are preachin it to the people who have already heard it!

    Another reason for doing this, perhaps, is if enough people can be reached, perhaps we can eliminate some of the persecution in some countries, That is, if there are majorities in those countries, willing to suffer for the gospel, as did the original apostles. Persecuting them then becomes a “manpower” issue.

    WE here in the US do not do this because we might “suffer” some inconvenience. Let’s put aside our convenience, and do the work the Lord called us to do. Let us move on from arguing with those who reject the Gospel, to reaching those who are hungry for it!

    A Suggestion, God bless

  16. Marianne thank you for these listings on the apostles. Heard this many years ago but reading it here refreshed my memory

    • hi ronnie

      I needed this page myself. Too many soft christians think that they will never experience any tribulation in life, and they will be raptured away from anything bad. We have to remember that most christian through out history suffered for their faith, and many modern christians are suffering now.

  17. Marianne I just read the post on the honey-bee. I beleive that I told you how things start dying off in mass during the great tribulation&even agriculture going extinct. The animals&plants of the Millenium are most likely brand new as well as the agriculture of the Millenium. This is something that many don’t want to talk about, when fammine really hits, the people of the world will not care that they are eating the seed grain for planting next years crops or eating the last livestock&poultry, depleating every fish, wild animal&other wild food in nature. I have read how in many poorer countries farmers have to guard their fields&livestock from people coming from the cities&towns&stealing from them. It is only going to get worse. Eventually every farm,storagesilo&warehouse of food will be over-run by mobs of hungry people. The wilderness will be over-run as well. People will kill for a dead grubworm someone found.Also Revelstion talks about the fammine of “thirst” drinking water will run out&wells going dry throughout the world. People will be left with nothing but cannibalism eating each other, even pets being eaten.

  18. What is/are the historical source(s) for this information?

  19. Blessed be God……as a Christian who was recently freed from the blinding deception of a prosperity gospel, I am glad to see truth since my eyes have been spiritually open! Thank you for this info about the apostles. We have it so easy here in the U.S. we don’t realize it. I know of people in this present day in other countries that are being murdered, tortured, decapitated, etc for their faith and absolute refusal to renounce Christ! This helps me to keep in perspective that there is a job to do….2 Peter 3:9 the Lord is….not willing that any should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance. Matthew 28:19 says for us to go and teach all nations, we certainly have all nations here in the U.S. in our own backyards!

  20. Please save my soul pray4me. I L0VE JESUS Somuch.sin is still distubing me

    • 0gunleye

      I am sending you some prayers to say each day to remove oppression and cover yourself with the blood of Jesus. print them out and say them each day. I will be in agreement with you.

  21. Help me pray2my Savoir JESUS CHRIST.2have mercy on me and my family4am a siner.i dnt want2sin again.i want2go out and preach is world in vilages and other place.follow me up please.JESUS IS MY LIFE,gsm 08050258844.

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  23. Thank you for that information

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