“Immanuel” hasn’t come yet

This famous passage from Isaiah has always been used by Christians to confirm the virgin birth of Jesus, and identify the Messiah. Jewish interpretations indicate it was referring to a son that would be born to King Ahaz or to the prophet Isaiah. Was either one correct?

Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

This is the traditional English translation of this passage in Isaiah.

Let us start at the beginning, and put this in context.

Level One – historical context

The nation of Israel had been divided into a northern kingdom (confusingly called “Israel,” Ephraim, or 10 tribes) and a southern kingdom (Judah and Benjamin, 2 tribes)

The 2 kings of Syria and Israel (Ephraim, northern kingdom) had joined forces, to come against King Ahaz of Judah (southern kingdom).

Isaiah was a prophet to the southern kingdom of Judah. He was sent by God to tell king Ahaz of Judah not to be afraid. God is promising that these other 2 kings will not defeat, and take over Judah.

Isa 7:1 And it came to pass in the days of Ahaz the son of Jotham, the son of Uzziah, king of Judah, [that] Rezin the king of Syria, and Pekah the son of Remaliah, king of Israel, went up toward Jerusalem to war against it, but could not prevail against it.

Isa 7:2 And it was told the house of David, saying, Syria is confederate with Ephraim. And his heart was moved, and the heart of his people, as the trees of the wood are moved with the wind.

Isa 7:3 Then said the LORD unto Isaiah, Go forth now to meet Ahaz, thou, and Shearjashub thy son, at the end of the conduit of the upper pool in the highway of the fuller’s field;

Isa 7:4 And say unto him, Take heed, and be quiet; fear not, neither be fainthearted for the two tails of these smoking firebrands, for the fierce anger of Rezin with Syria, and of the son of Remaliah.

Isa 7:5 Because Syria, Ephraim, and the son of Remaliah, have taken evil counsel against thee, saying,

Isa 7:6 Let us go up against Judah, and vex it, and let us make a breach therein for us, and set a king in the midst of it, [even] the son of Tabeal

Isa 7:7 Thus saith the Lord GOD, It shall not stand, neither shall it come to pass.

The next passage is prophetic. It predicts the lifetime of Ephraim (Israel, northern kingdom) as only 65 years from that date. This proved true in history, as Syria eventually overcame this territory, creating bondage for those captured, and the Diaspora, which continues to this day.

Isa 7:8 For the head of Syria [is] Damascus, and the head of Damascus [is] Rezin; and within threescore and five years (65years) shall Ephraim be broken, that it be not a people.

In the next section, the Lord encourages Ahaz to ask for a sign, Ahaz refuses, and so the Lord just gives the sign anyhow, that what He, the Lord, says is true.

Isa 7:10 Moreover the LORD spake again unto Ahaz, saying,

Isa 7:11 Ask thee a sign of the LORD thy God; ask it either in the depth, or in the height above.
Isa 7:12 But Ahaz said, I will not ask, neither will I tempt the LORD

Isa 7:13 And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; [Is it] a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also?

Here is the sign that the Lord gave king Ahaz as assurance that the 2 kings would not take over Judah. While King Ahaz was alive, this promise was kept.

Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin [maiden] shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Isa 7:15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.

Isa 7:16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that you abhor shall be forsaken of both her kings.

Now, stop for a moment. This sign can only possibly point to the sons of 3 people. A son the mother would name Immanuel? So see how the prophecy lines up with them:

1. a. King Ahaz had a son, called Hezekiah, not Immanuel (2 Kings 16:20)

b. Prophet Isaiah had a son, called Maher – Shalel – Has – Baz, not

Immanuel (Is 8:3)

c. Mary and Joseph, had a son, called Jesus (Yehsua), not Immanuel.

2. Notice the child would live during a time of prosperity for Israel, so that children would eat delicacies. During the time of Ahaz and Mary and Joseph, Judah was under pressure from enemies and not prospering as an independent entity.

3. While the child is still very young, the land north of Ahaz with the 2 kings would be forsaken. History proves this true, as the land was eventually devastated within the 65 years prophesied.

Looking past Level One.

So what happened to the son named Immanuel? Who is this child? Is this child a person, or a symbol of something else? Not even Jesus was once called Immanuel during his lifetime, or thereafter.

If one looks further, Immanuel is only mentioned once more, in all of scripture. It is a reference to a future time, when Judah is actually invaded by the king of Assyria, as Judah becomes sinful, like the northern kingdom.

Isa 8:8 And he [king of Assyria] shall pass through Judah; he shall overflow and go over, he shall reach [even] to the neck; and the stretching out of his wings shall fill the breadth of thy land, O Immanuel.

Is the name Immanuel reserved for someone who is present during this next invasion? Israel has been invaded multiple times, but so far, no one named Immanuel was there to respond. When Jesus was here, it was the Romans that had invaded, not the Assyrians. What time is this in reference to?

Level Two – modern times

Take a look at this verse again. I have added extra dimensions to it, based on all meanings of the Hebrew words used.

Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign;

Behold, a virgin [young woman, a maid, or marriageable age, or newly married]

shall conceive,

and bear [ bring forth, travail, produce in distress, declare one’s birth]

a son,

and shall call [ to make a loud call, to summon, invite, call unto for help]

his name Immanuel.

Where else have we seen this prophecy about the young woman and child in scripture?

Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Rev 12:2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

Rev 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and [to] his throne.

This young woman is the united Israel as a people. She was born in 1948. She is travailing in pain, calling out for her Messiah, to deliver her from the King of Assyria.

She will be the one to call her Messiah Immanuel, which means God with us.

She seems to loose this Messianic hope as the child is taken away from her, so soon after the birth of the hope. The dragon uses politics, and the hate of her neighbors, to rob the woman of her land, the womb that gives forth her hope, and devour the child.

Israel first lost 2/3 the British mandated land within a year of issue in 1921. The UN Partition plan in 1947 took another half of what remained, and gave it to the Arabs. Jordan then attempted to annex the West Bank in 1949. This lasted until 1967, when in the 6 day war, Israel got its property back. Israel then returned the Sinai area in 1982 in a peace agreement. The Palestinian authority then took hold of more property, rebelled against Israel rule, and initiated ongoing terrorist attacks.

Just as Israel once before saw her child leave her, and ascend to heaven 2000 years ago, modern Israel is seeing her child leave her again, as the dragon continually attacks her and robs her of her hope.

How can she hold on to her child as her womb (land) is constantly wounded, torn apart, divided, and given to her enemies?

Compare the divided land in the time of Ahaz to modern Israel. This is the womb of the Messiah. It is divided, so it cannot bring forth the child.

The child is the hope and land of her Messiah. Only When Israel is reunited with her child, and the Messianic hope becomes a reality, will she give Him the name she is destined to give Him – Immanuel !!!

Level Three – the 65 years and the near future

Can a prophecy be fulfilled twice? Invasions are not new to Israel. Will something happen to the West Bank, which for all practical purposes is the “northern part” of Israel (similar geographically to the ancient Ephraim, northern kingdom)?

How long will God allow Israel’s enemies to hold onto the womb of the young maiden Israel?

Isa 7:8 For the head of Syria [is] Damascus, and the head of Damascus [is] Rezin; and within threescore and five years (65 years) shall Ephraim be broken, that it be not a people.

Is there a time limit to this Palestinian occupation of the land of Israel?

The land was first partitioned in 1947, and reinforced in 1949. Could the 65 year promise be renewed once again? Only time will tell.

1947 + 65 = 2012

1949 + 65 = 2014

With things the way they are, how could this happen?

Well, we are still waiting for the Gog and Magog (Ezechiel 38) invasion of Israel, which, by the way would fulfill the Assyrian king invasion of the Isaiah prophecy as well. What is nice about this war, is that, despite terrible odds, Israel is victorious.

This would be a good time to reclaim land. This would be a good time to heal the womb of Israel, and reinstate the hope of the Messiah.

This victorious time would be a good incentive for the final aliyah, the final return of all remaining Jews to Israel, in preparation for its Messianic destiny.

Is it possible that the young maiden Israel, who has given up her child unto heaven as a deferred hope, can call Him back again at this time?

If so, maybe we will finally hear the name Immanuel being called unto, and spoken by the woman Israel, toward the child that delivers her.

64 Responses to ““Immanuel” hasn’t come yet”

  1. […] to a son that would be born to King Ahaz or to the prophet Isaiah. Was either one correct? Click here for […]

  2. is “Immanuel” the destined Jewish name and acknowledgment of Jesus the Christian savior? does this mark the return of Jesus and the Jewish acceptance of their Savior?

  3. Hi Looseassociations

    It seems like the messiah will not become real to them until they call out to him, and recognize him for who he is….Immanuel.

    it is at that point where Jews and Christians become one under One Messiah.


  4. thank you, yes. this is how we will be brothers and sisters with the Jews, because we will be all be the spiritual children of Abraham by faith.

    God bless.

  5. Interesting Idea, but a lot of scripture has several thousand years in one verse. Take Isaiah 61 for example:
    The Spirit of the Sovereign LORD is on me,
    because the LORD has anointed me
    to preach good news to the poor.
    He has sent me to bind up the brokenhearted,
    to proclaim freedom for the captives
    and release from darkness for the prisoners, [a]

    2 to proclaim the year of the LORD’s favor
    and the day of vengeance of our God,
    to comfort all who mourn,
    Jesus fulfilled the first part 2000 years ago, yet the second will come to pass when he comes back on the day of his vengeance.
    Also, many prophecies about Jesus’ first coming were in the middle of other texts which had no application to that text. The 30 pieces of silver prophecy, as well as many of the texts in the Psalms.

    Note the progression of Isaiah 7-11

    Isaiah 7: A virgin shall give birth to Emmanuel: “God with us.” Jesus was God with us. But in that day the Lord will use the king of Assyria to invade Emmanuel’s land. That day will be the day of the Lord and the King of Assyria will be the Antichrist who invades Israel.
    Isaiah 8: The earth will be in utter darkness (the condition at the Lord’s return)
    Isaiah 9: Nevertheless, there will be no more gloom for those who were in distress.(the time of great distress) but in the future he will honor Galilee of the Gentiles,(Jesus was from Galilee The people walking in darkness(of Isaiah 8) have seen a great light; to us a child is born, to us a son is given,
    and the government will be on his shoulders.
    And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, [b] Mighty God,
    Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. And Every warrior’s boot used in battle and every garment rolled in blood
    will be destined for burning,will be fuel for the fire: a direct parallel to Ezekiel 39!
    Isaiah 10: The Assyrian Antichrist is destroyed.

    7 Of the increase of his government and peace
    there will be no end.
    He will reign on David’s throne
    and over his kingdom,
    establishing and upholding it
    with justice and righteousness
    from that time on and forever.
    The zeal of the LORD Almighty
    will accomplish this.

    And indeed, after Armageddon, where every warrior’s boot will be burned, his government shall never end. The child’s that is.

  6. Hey Al,

    I know that Jesus was the one referred to in Isaiah, it is just he was never called by that name while he was here the first time.

    This prophecy will not be fulfilled in its exactness, until ISRAEL – the virgin country with a pure heart – calls out for her Messiah during the coming time of trouble. When it does, it will meet the same Jesus we know.

    So it is then that Israel will call Jesus Immanuel, which will be the first time for him to be called that as he is physically present on earth.

    WE do call him that, but we are not the virgin mother. WE call him that looking to his future role here on earth. He is gone for now and will return for good. When he is here for good, He will then be called “God with us,” because he actually will be WITH us.

    Make sense? Maybe I should try to clarify this in the above text. I am really getting picky here about a small detail. Did not want to make it confusing.


    • Please, my sister, there is a huge lack of reading the bible. You said that Immanuel, is not reffered to Jesus in new testament , please read:
      Matthew 1:20 As he considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream. “Joseph, son of David,” the angel said, “do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife. For the child within her was conceived by the Holy Spirit. 21 And she will have a son, and you are to name him Jesus,[i] for he will save his people from their sins.”

      22 All of this occurred to fulfill the Lord’s message through his prophet:

      23 “Look! The virgin will conceive a child!
      She will give birth to a son,
      and they will call him Immanuel,[j]
      which means ‘God is with us.’”

      May God Bless you!

      • Naconeski,
        Thank you for sharing this verse, I was thinking the same thing. He both was and is Immanuel, God with us. He was literally with us at His first coming when He was born of the virgin Mary and He will be with us again on earth at His second advent.

        Also, despite what Muslims and Jews who reject Christ try to teach, the word for *virgin* also refers to a literal virgin. It was used of Rebecca.

        The sign itself was to be:
        “ deep as Sheol or high as heaven.”

        In other words, this was to be an outrageous, almost unbelievable sign. A young woman giving birth is not a sign that is “deep as Sheol
        or high as heaven”, rather it is very common. Now a *virgin* giving birth is an exceptional, unheard of sign.

        Thank you again for sharing the passage, blessings in Immanuel.

  7. Hi Marianne.
    This was confusing, it is hard grasp,but is very interesting. Thank you for sharing.
    God Bless

  8. Please, my sister, there is a huge lack of reading the bible. You said that Immanuel, is not reffered to Jesus in new testament , please read this:
    Matthew 1:20 As he considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream. “Joseph, son of David,” the angel said, “do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife. For the child within her was conceived by the Holy Spirit. 21 And she will have a son, and you are to name him Jesus,[i] for he will save his people from their sins.”

    22 All of this occurred to fulfill the Lord’s message through his prophet:

    23 “Look! The virgin will conceive a child!
    She will give birth to a son,
    and they will call him Immanuel,[j]
    which means ‘God is with us.’”

    • HI Naconeski,

      I tend to present different dimensions of traditional views. I agree that Jesus was destined to be Immanuel, but he was also destined to come twice. The first time, he came as a Redeemer for our sins, and was crucified, and left. Jesus was called Jesus during his life, not Immanuel. When people wanted to make him king, he refused, because he was not coming in the Messiah role yet. That was meant for the second trip here.

      To Christians, Jesus will always be Immanuel, but he will not come in that role until he returns the second time to conquer evil and rule as Messiah. At that time, he will not come as a man who gets killed, but as Immanuel, and this will not be questioned, like it was the first time. The entire world will call him Immanuel then. 🙂

      • I adamantly disagree. “Immanuel” does not refer to the word *king*, rather it refers to the word *God*. It was God who would be with us and God *was* with us during the first advent. Here is just one example of scripture showing Yeshua was Immanuel/God at His first advent.

        Acts 20:28
        “Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He (God) purchased with His own blood.”

        It was God who purchased us with HIS OWN BLOOD…meaning it was God’s blood, the man Christ Jesus’ blood…ie Immanuel’s blood (God with us’ blood). This was at His first advent. He was God then, it was God’s blood used for the purchase. This means God was with us…Immanuel.


  9. Sorry for my refutation , but the name , is the less thing here as was called Immanuel in matthew 23. All the future prophecies about him , was made by himself in matthew 24 , and John made in Revelation, when he will come as a king and Judge. I particularly don´t believe that he will come the second time only to Jews. But for those , including gentiles who didn´t accept him before the tribulation.. We read in Romans 2:28-29:
    For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

    In the Old Testament, God commanded that all the male blood descendants of Abraham were to be circumcised (Genesis 17:4), and that law is still followed today by the Jews. Everyone who is a blood descendant of Abraham is a physical Jew. The Jew that God talks about in this passage is the person who has come to trust in the Lord Jesus.
    Bout he as a known king:King of Jews (KJV)


    [2] Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.


    [11] And Jesus stood before the governor: and the governor asked him, saying, Art thou the King of the Jews? And Jesus said unto him, Thou sayest.
    [29] And when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews!
    [37] And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS.


    [26] And the superscription of his accusation was written over, THE KING OF THE JEWS.


    [32] Let Christ the King of Israel descend now from the cross, that we may see and believe. And they that were crucified with him reviled him.


    [13] Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

    Those who didn´t believe him as king , would not believe today also, because they are infidels. Do you really believe that all jews will be safe?

    May God Bless!

  10. Zachariah 9 :The Coming of Zion’s King
    9 Rejoice greatly, O Daughter of Zion!
    Shout, Daughter of Jerusalem!
    See, your king [b] comes to you,
    righteous and having salvation,
    gentle and riding on a donkey,
    on a colt, the foal of a donkey.
    10 I will take away the chariots from Ephraim
    and the war-horses from Jerusalem,
    and the battle bow will be broken.
    He will proclaim peace to the nations.
    His rule will extend from sea to sea
    and from the River [c] to the ends of the earth. [d]

    11 As for you, because of the blood of my covenant with you,
    I will free your prisoners from the waterless pit.

    12 Return to your fortress, O prisoners of hope;
    even now I announce that I will restore twice as much to you.

    13 I will bend Judah as I bend my bow
    and fill it with Ephraim.
    I will rouse your sons, O Zion,
    against your sons, O Greece,
    and make you like a warrior’s sword.

    The LORD Will Appear
    14 Then the LORD will appear over them;
    his arrow will flash like lightning.
    The Sovereign LORD will sound the trumpet;
    he will march in the storms of the south,
    15 and the LORD Almighty will shield them.
    They will destroy
    and overcome with slingstones.
    They will drink and roar as with wine;
    they will be full like a bowl
    used for sprinkling [e] the corners of the altar.

    16 The LORD their God will save them on that day
    as the flock of his people.
    They will sparkle in his land
    like jewels in a crown.

    17 How attractive and beautiful they will be!
    Grain will make the young men thrive,
    and new wine the young women.

    • Hi Naconeski

      Jesus will return for Israel, the Jews, and anyone who calls upon His name. Those who rejected Jesus 2000 years ago were few in number, as most did accept him. They are all dead now. This is a new and different generation, and they are actively looking for their Messiah. They just have not figured out it is Jesus yet. Remember that Jews have suffered under persecution by Christians in the past, which has put up an obstacle to belief. It will take time and love to break down this wall, and the wall is falling now. More and more Jews are becoming more open to the gospel.

  11. The testimony about himself , jesus gave when he gone down to hell and preach to the deads( 1 peter 3:18 and 4:6). I disagree that the most accepted him. As we can see: John 1.10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.
    About persecution of Jews by Christians, when it happened?
    For me are two categories of people for God: Believers and non believers. Jews will not be saved if they don´t accept Jesus ( I know you think the same thing). Billy grahan said the contrary, but he is in apostasy.
    Sorry if my Arguments seem to be angry , I´m not fighting or something like. English is not my first language, so sometimes I get lost in nuances
    Peace , sister!

    • hi naconeski

      persecution of jews by christians have been going on for almost the entire 2000 years;

      abandonment of Jewish believers by gentile believers occurred at the beginning, and all hebrew roots of the faith were condmened

      christian antisemitism enabled Hitler to kill 6 million Jews.
      Martin Luther was viciously antisemitic

      During the crusades, Jews were tortured into converting. The choice was also get baptized or die. During Easter celebrations, they were rounded up and beaten, since they deserved it as murderers of Christ.

      Bernard of Clarvaux, a monk, called the Jews evil stupid beasts. Popes continually condemned Jews. Pope innocent III ruled that Jews should be degraded, and ostracized from business, to deny them economic needs. Jews were forced to wear “badges of shame” on their clothing.

      Synogogues were burned with the Jews inside. Their holy books were burned, and they were under threat of death if they taught Judaism. The young ones were used as slaves.

      Then there was the Spanish inquisition. More Jews were murdered. Forced conversions, or death. The catholic church called them Marranos, which means pig. It was common to make the sign of the cross on the Jews, and then whip them30,000 were murdered by the catholic church. in 1492, all Jews were expelled from Spain.

      The catholic church is repsonsible for millions of Jews being murdered in history, and the protestants have also helped. The history is too long to put here.

      read this book
      “Our Hands are stained with Blood” by Michael Brown.

  12. Yes , I know these histories, and it is very true. But I don´t believe this is the reason why they don´t accept Jesus. They are not victms. Nor the Arabics are. They have pride. As all other humans who dont accept Jesus. Luther was important for Christianism, but he was not perfect He said things agains James book in the bible. If jews would be converted just by receiving help, they would be all Christians, after USA( Christian nation) defend all that Israel does.

  13. What on earth are you talking about? The Messiah has already come in the form of Jesus Christ. His coming was prophesied in the Old Testament and confirmed in the New. Christ as the Lamb of God was born to a virgin. When Christ comes back as the Lion of Judah he will come from heaven, he will not be born of a virgin.

    Matthew 1:18-23 NIV
    This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit. 19Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly.

    20But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, “Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. 21She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus,[c] because he will save his people from their sins.”

    22All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: 23″The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel”[d]—which means, “God with us.”

    You are trying to deceive people big time. If people believe your version of the Messiah then they will be deceived by the Anti-christ whom the Jews will believe to be the Messiah.

    John 5:42,43 NIV
    but I know you. I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts. 43I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him.

    • Hi Contender.

      I love Jesus as my Messiah. I know he has already come. But he will not really be recognized as Immanuel until he returns in his glory. The first time, most rejected him, and they did not call him Immanuel. When he said he was the son of God, they accused him of blasphemy. The next time he comes, he will not have this problem.

  14. Some Israeli’s are aware that there is more than one Messiah and one of them is female. She is the Daughter of Zion and the watch tower for the flock. Found in the books of Malachi, Micah, Isaiah and the book of Revelation. In the NT she is called the Son of Man and the Paraclete and she is mentioned in many scriptures including the dead sea scrolls and the nag hammadhi library text. There is one Coptic psalm that also talks about the female paraclete. The book of Revelation also calls her the overcomer and it clearly states that Jesus puts upon them upon his throne.

  15. Hmmm, seems to me this is one of the reasons that Paul says, “But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.” Sorry, but you’re in deception. The worst thing about deception is, you don’t even know that you’re deceived. “And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.” I don’t intend to offend, but I certainly can’t let this go as reputable doctrine either. Y’shua said in John 8:47, “He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.” Either hear or not. You do not answer to me. Only recognize that these words are not my own.

    • SCott

      Jesus was not known as Immanuel in his lifetime. He will be known as this when he returns, and actually stays here.

      • Jesus was known as God with us…he was the son born of a virgin…the sign that was to be given. Matthew says He fulfilled this during His lifetime since it was at His birth as the Son that He fulfilled the prophecy.

        I am concerned for you. God was manifest in the flesh…meaning He (God) literally came in the flesh. John says that anyone who say’s Jesus (meaning God) did not come in the flesh is Anti-christ. Jesus/God did come in the flesh, He was born of a virgin, meaning God WAS with us (Immanuel).

        The fact that you keep challenging this is very scary. I will keep reading to the bottom, and hopefully read you say repent of this false teaching of saying that “God was NOT with us” by the bottom of the page.

        In sincere love

        • hi Alamb

          I know what Immanuel means and that Jesus was Immanuel.

          The point here is that Jesus was never referred to, recognized, or called Immanel while he was here.

          Jesus only came for a very short while, so he was not “with us” long, then he left.

          When He comes to stay in the next coming, to STAY with us in person, he will be called Immanuel.

          This is not theology. It is just semantics.

          • Something to think about. Mary the virgin name her son *Jesus* because He would save His people from their sins.

            In reality, Mary named her son *Yah Shua* because He (Yah) would save (Shua) His people from their sins.

            Every time we say the name Jesus or Yeshua we are saying YAH, which is God’s name. We are saying YAH SAVES. The angel specifically said to name the child YAH….this is WHY Matthew says
            *God* was with us…because *YAH* was with us to SAVE us from our sins.

            Every time he is/was called Yeshua He is/was literally being called Immanuel.

            • actually, god saves does not mean god with us.

              I understand Jesus was with us. But the angel did not tell Mary to name the child Immanuel……he said to name him Yeshua instead…so there is a reason.

              Many names in Hebrew have the name god in them.

              Isai – yah
              jeremi – yah
              samu – el
              nehemi – yah
              hose – yah
              zephani – yah
              zechari – yah

              something to think about….which is why i mentioned it in the post.

              • I’m replying at the bottom to avoid narrow columns. I hope you know that I am not your enemy but your sister in Christ. All is said in love for our God and His truth as it is written.

  16. We do call jesus immanuel.. It means we say God is with us through Jesus…

  17. We do call jesus immanuel.. It means we say God is with us through Jesus…
    Matthew 1-20 through 23..And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. NOTE it says THEY will call his name Jesus and indeed we do..We say Jesus is god with us…

    • Hi ruth

      True, we call him that. My point was that Jesus was not recognized as Immanuel when he was here. He was not even named that, and called Jesus instead.

      When he returns, his divine nature will be very evident, and the name Immanuel will be used by everyone to refer to him.

  18. Sorry Marianne, I am the woman mentioned in Rev 12, my 1260 days finished at the end of 2008. Obama then arrived in Rev 13, he is the Leo the Leopard from Africa. In the Dead Sea Scrolls he is the Usurper, you know the one without the birth certificate. He is also mentioned by Daniel. The prophecy about the Prince of Persia, Prince of Greece and Michael in the book of Daniel as also been completed.

    You will find a fresco of me in the Vatican. Michelangelo and many others knew the truth.

    • please explain

      “Prince of Persia, Prince of Greece and Michael in the book of Daniel as also been completed.”

      Also, if 1260 days were up in 2008, what does that mean for you? You time was over then also? Then what does that mean for you now?

  19. Marianne,
    Funny as we happened to have that discussion about patience today. lol
    Hang in there girl. lol

  20. Michael in the Book of Daniel to do with the timing with the Prince of Greece and that is different to the Michael in Rev 12. Michael in the book of Daniel was the only one that supported me with the work against Islam and the Prince of Persia. We both defended Israel. In the timeline in the book of Daniel the days are years.

    The timeline in Rev 12 is days. When the days were over the Christ told me that the ‘Time is nigh’, and that we were going into a higher gear. At that time he asked me to read rev 12 and Micah 4. Within a few days we started the blog and we now have five blogs with one for those that care fully for children.

    Now we have to build new jerusalem as instructed.

  21. When the Prince of Greece came in 2010 he was told that he has a mission for three years. Michael died on the 26th of June 2010.

  22. Michael died? What Michael? Are you saying that the Archangel Michael in Daniel is not the same Archangel Michael in Revelation and that he died on June 26th.? How can an angel of God die, unless he took on bodily form like Christ?

    Could you please explain.

  23. A lot of pagan religions believe in reincarnation too.

  24. That wasn’t my point actually. Yah is God’s personal name. Matthew said this child was called YAH because He (YAH) would save His people from their sins. In other words, this *specific* child was given the *specific* name YAH because *YAH* (God), now in the flesh, would save His people from their sins. The human examples you listed were *not* Yah in flesh.

    I’m glad you understand *Jesus* was with us. My concern is whether or not you understand *God* was with us.

    You say “Immanuel has not come yet”. You are actually saying God has not come yet. You are leaving the door open for another to fulfill this role at a future date.

    You say Jesus did not come in the *role* of God at His first coming. Matthew says Isaiah’s prophecy was fulfilled at Jesus’ birth. You are calling Matthew a liar or ignorant. Do you really think the Jew Matthew, who grew up in Torah, didn’t know what Isaiah was referring to?

    The prophecies indicate there will be a *singular* virgin when she is referred to in the phrase: ‘the seed of A woman’ sometimes translated ‘seed of THE woman’ and also in the phrase ‘A virgin’. By saying Immanuel has not come yet, and that the singular virgin is somehow the future remnant of Israel you are *denying* the virgin birth of Jesus Christ. We know beyond a shadow of a doubt the virgin referred to is Mary because Apostle Matthew and the Apostle Luke both say Mary is the virgin. You are saying Jesus was not born of THE singular (a/the) virgin, rather Jesus’ father was Joseph or some other human man. There is only *one* virgin. If Mary was not *the* virgin, then Yeshua was not *God* in flesh–He was all *flesh*. We know that “God does nothing without telling His prophets AHEAD OF TIME.”.

    Amos 3:7
    “Surely the Lord YAHVY does nothing UNLESS He reveals His secret counsel To His servants the prophets.”

    Jesus could not be born of a virgin *UNLESS* it was first prophesied through the prophets.

    IF Jesus was not born of a virgin, but instead had two human parents then God was not His father, Jesus was all human and not God at all. The ONLY way to know if God is the Father of Jesus is to have a virgin birth.

    God prophesied a virgin birth through two witnesses/prophets: Moses in Genesis and Isaiah. By applying the virgin birth to future Israel you are in fact denying Yeshua’s divinity—you are making Him entirely human with two human parents. Remember, Jesus can only have a virgin birth IF it was already prophesied by the prophets. Was it?

    Yah said the one to conquer Satan’s seed would be born of the seed of *a* woman in Genesis 3:15 “A” means singular woman. The seed would come from *a* woman without the contribution of *a man*. To make sure there was no doubt the seed was only of *a* woman with no man’s help, the woman would *necessarily* be a *virgin*. The second witness was by Isaiah the prophet when he gave his prophecy in Isaiah 7:14 and clarified further in 9:6 who exactly the child was *The mighty God*. You are saying the *child* Yeshua was *not The Mighty God* even though Isaiah 9:6 says otherwise. Matthew says this prophecy “occured” *past tense*, when Jesus was born…you simply do not believe the bible.

    You say Jesus did not come in the *role of God* at His first coming yet prophecy tells us that there is only one God and Savior and His name is Yah. The new testament tells us to shepherd the church of GOD which HE purchased with HIS OWN BLOOD…meaning God was flesh and blood. GOD had to have blood WHEN the purchase was made. This happened at His first coming when Yeshua came AS God in the FLESH. How did God acquire flesh?

    The Word was with God and the Word was God…the Word BECAME FLESH and DWELT AMONG US AS the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON. (John 1)

    We just read that God dwelt among us as the flesh son. *Dwelt* is past-tense…meaning God was already here.

    God became flesh when He dwelt among us AS the only begotten Son…meaning when he was *born*. Yeshua most certainly came **In the role of God*** in His first coming. Those reading scripture know that only God Himself is the Savior.

    You said no-one acknowledged Yeshua as God with us/Immanuel at His first coming or even thereafter. You are incorrect. Scripture says otherwise. Also all true believers say God HAS COME in the flesh/Immanuel. I’m saying it right now. All of this is the time you refer to as ‘thereafter’…HOWEVER Yeshua was also referred to as God *while* He was here and even as THE SIGN (Immanuel was the sign).

    Thomas confessed and he bowed before Yeshua: My Lord and MY GOD. Yeshua was known and confessed as God and in the role of God at His first coming. He was literally Immanuel, God with us. Whether a large group of people recognized Him as God or not has **ZERO** to do with the prophecy still being about Him.

    It is the SAME JESUS who will return:

    Acts 1:11
    “Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this SAME Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.”

    You said Jesus WILL come as Immanuel at His second coming. The obvious is: It is the SAME Jesus. Jesus WAS Immanuel. Jesus IS Immanuel and Jesus WILL be Immanuel. It is the SAME Jesus/Immanuel.

    I think you actually know you are wrong. This article, which is basically saying *God* did not come in the flesh, is anti-christ. I have no idea why you are defending such a message. Your disagreement with the Apostle Matthew shows that you have no fear.

    As for anyone knowing and confessing that Yeshua was indeed Immanuel–THE SIGN–the sign that would be “as High as Heaven” per Isaiah 7:11—it was announced shortly after His birth by Simeon the prophet who said:

    Luke 2:34
“Behold, this Child is appointed for the fall and rise of many in Israel, AND FOR A SIGN TO BE OPPOSED”

    —a sign you oppose.

    • I am not going to belabor my point.

      Jesus was NOT called Immanuel while he was here the first time.

      that is the point.

      • Do you believe Jesus is God who has come in the flesh?

        • Jesus is the son of God, and yes he came in the flesh. You are nit – picking. And you do not get my point.

          • I assure you I am not nit-picking, I am asking for a reason. My question was not did Jesus the *Son of God* come in the flesh. I asked if *God* came in the flesh.

            Was God with us in the flesh?

            • You refuse to see my point that Jesus was never called Immanuel while he was here.

              Interpret these scriptures

              John 1:1-2
              In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

              The same was in the beginning with God.

              v 14
              And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

              v 18
              No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].

              John 17: 1, 3 (words of Jesus to the Father)

              These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

              And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

              Almost all epistles of Paul start out this way:

              ex ample 2 thess 1:2
              Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

              1 Cor 1:3
              Grace [be] unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and [from] the Lord Jesus Christ.

              epistles of Peter
              2 Peter 1:2
              Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

              John 14: 28
              Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

              • So you are saying you do not believe God was here on earth with us in the flesh?

              • I Think what Alamb is trying to get from you is was Jesus God Incarnate? A simple yes or no question.

                In John upperroom discourse, Jesus reveals things to the apostles after Judas left (13:30) Verse 31 ” Now the son of Man is glorified,” as satan was not In his prescence any longer he could share with the apostles his true identity. 14:7b “From now on you do know Him (the Father)and have SEEN HIM. This is reiterated in verse 9 when phillip is skeptical. Up until that point, Jesus only refered to himself as the Son of God, Except when he said “Before Abraham was I AM”. “I am” is the translated meaning of Yahweh (I am that I am). The Pharisees reacted to this statement By trying to stone him. (8:58-59)
                Though Jesus is not called Immanuel directly, he is still “God with us”. Matthew 1:23 however quotes Isaiah 7:14 And adds “which Means God with us”

                Now I understand that the jews rejected this testimony as they do not see God with them in the form of a Messiah king. But God is with us in the form of His Spirit which dwells in those who believe that Jesus was God incarnate.

  25. dear Alamb

    I am showing you what the Word of God says.

    I do not go by the word of man, but by the word of God.

    So read what it says, and see.

    you are concerned about 1 john 4:3

    And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

    It does not say god is come in the

    flesh…it says Jesus is come in the flesh.

    I am not antichrist…..

    I am discerning what the Word says.

    Are you not human, like your own father?

    but you are not your father.

    • Marianne, if I could expand 1 John 4:3 a little: remember it is John speaking – the same John who already said in his gospel that Jesus Christ “was” the Word who “was” God (John 1:1). This Word that “was God” John says “became flesh” (John 1:14) in the Person of Jesus Christ. So when John later states in his letter the importance of confessing that Jesus Christ came in the flesh, he is saying in brief form what he formerly stated very meticulously – that Jesus Christ/the Word/God came in the flesh, and that if a person is unable to confess that they are antichrist.

      • That is exactly right Sissy.

        We are told *WHO* became flesh. It is the WORD/GOD who BECAME FLESH and who DWELT AMONG US AS the only BEGOTTEN SON.

        It is the *Word God* who dwelt among us as the Son in FLESH.

        There is no way around what John said. To deny Jesus is God in flesh is anti-christ and is exactly what John said and meant.

  26. I go by what the Word says…..

    John 1:1-2
    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    The same was in the beginning with God.

    v 14
    And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

    v 18
    No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared [him].

    John 17: 1, 3 (words of Jesus to the Father)
    These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
    And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

    Almost all epistles of Paul start out this way:

    ex ample 2 thess 1:2

    Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

    1 Cor 1:3
    Grace [be] unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and [from] the Lord Jesus Christ.

    epistles of Peter

    2 Peter 1:2
    Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

    John 14: 28
    Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

    The Father is the word, and so is Jesus, but they are not the same person.
    Both are the Word. Jesus gets his “word” from the father and then brought it to us.

    Father = Word #1
    Son = Word #2
    which is why the Word was WITH God……meaning Word #2 was with Word #1

    So when it says the Word WAS God, it did not say which one it was talking about……

    ACcording to Jesus himself, in John 17 above, the Father is God, and he is who the Father sent.

    Word #2 came in the flesh, not Word #1

    • Word #1 and Word #2? You are adding to plain Scripture. I can’t respond to something fabricated out of your reasoning.

      This is something that will kill you, Marianne. You must know Who He is. You must accept ALL that is written.

      Jesus said “If you do not believe that I am [he], you will die in your sins…before Abraham was, I am.” (john 8)

      You are refusing to believe Him. You must, or you will die in your sins.

      • Sissy
        Approach with Caution. Marianne has been in contact with a person that claims to be a Djinn or fallen angel. This spirit Jumps from one person to another. What she is defending here is part of their deception. If you are not familiar with these things, read second Peter. Note who it is adressed to and the consequence of blaspheming these glorious ones. The Book of enoch will help as well. From the time I have commented on this sight, Marianne has agreed with me on the divinity of Christ. Your prayers will be helpful.

        Now I could be wrong, and she has held these beliefs from when she wrote this post, only I have not prodded her on this. It is disturbing though.

    • Marianne
      If Jesus is not God incarnate (I am assuming you answered my question in the negative) Of what value is his death on the cross and his shed blood?
      If he was not born of virgin birth, How is it that he was born without sin? How could Paul say If God is with us who can be against us? How could the disciples “see” the Father if he was not God? ALL the apostles acknowledge Jesus’ deity, As does the early church. It is prophesied throughout scripture that That Jesus was God. This is an uncompromisable fact of our faith, If you do not believe it, You are NOT a Christian. You might as well offer child sacrifices to Milcom for your sins, for this is what you are reducing Jesus to. You have defended me before in discussions with Muslims regarding the deity of Christ, which they emphatically deny. 1 John 4:1-6 Is how we Christians are to test the spirits to see if they are of God. The two “tests” are whether they affirm Jesus divinity, and if they affirm his Humaness. Jesus was both fully human and fully divine. This is the “Testimony” of Jesus which we are called to Hold. If a Spirit has entered you which has led you to pervert this belief, then in the name of Yesshua (Jesus) The Lord rebuke that Spirit.

      Marianne: You have dealt with many a demon and false spirit on this sight, and they may have influenced you. I do so out of Love. The fruit of your fast are not of God, and I suggest you strengthen yourself to fend off this temptation. You wrote this post three years ago, and from what you have expressed in our discussions these are not your views any longer. Only now you are forced to defend them. Come out of that defensive shell and Put on the “whole Armor of God”

      May God grant you strength to overcome.

      • dru and sissy

        You are out of line…..

        I only said to read the scriptures that are there…

        I have not added anything to what is there.

        I do not have a demon….back off.

        I believe Jesus is divine.

        But the Word was WITH God..so think about that……..

        Jesus was WITH the Father.

        and the father is God. The father is also the word, because Jesus said so.

        Jesus said himself he only speaks what the Father tells him..

        Of course Jesus was before Abraham…..

        It is hard to make you people think…. you are so full of narrow thinking and canned doctrine.

        Now go back and read the scriptures that are quoted….(at 10:24 ) what do they say?

        • Marianne
          In John I:1-2 the word “word” Is from the Greek “LOGOS” all three times. The same word is used for word implying three references to the same word (subject) ” In the begignning was the the Word, and the Word was with God and the WORD was GOD” There is no other subject in this sentence as this would not be even gramatically correct. For example “John woke up, John then showered, and then James went to work.” Thus the Word was,(existed) was with God (in his prescence) and was God (Was one in the same with God.) This is not a gramatical list as you are implying.

          Now explain John 14: 7,9 To me? How is it that the the disciples could “see” the Father?

          Marianne, If these are your beliefs, then you have “hidden” them from me for 7 months now. (I had not read this post, but you should have declared them long ago when I shared my beliefs on this topic)

          Your beliefs are in line with the deception that Taus spoke of. They have to make Jesus out to be less than God, and one of them. This is the only way their deception will work. They deny that Jesus was “from the beginning”, which I am glad to see you still hold to. Jesus is the Creator.

          When the Bible talks of Jesus doing the will of the Father and appearing as “less” than God, this was because he was fully Human as well and thereby weekened. Phillipians 2:6ff says ” who (Jesus) though he was in the form of God, did not count EQUALITY with God a thing to be grasped 7. But made himself NOTHING, Taking the FORM of a servant, be born in the Likeness of men. 8. And being found in Human form, he HUMBLED himself by becoming OBEDIENT to the point of death, even death on the cross.” Now you can say that Jesus and God were separate, but if you believe that they were separate but equal, you are contradicting the Old testament as well in your belief. My faith has led me to believe that they are separate parts of the same God (trinity). This is the only way that equality and distinctiveness with God can be explained in light of the Monotheistic God of Judaism. This is the one thing the Jewish faith could not accept. If you are trying to water the Gospel down to make it more appealing to Jews, then you are altering the word of God. You Either reject Jesus as the Jews Did, or you accept him as God. There is no in between. As Al has continually pointed out to you there are only two seeds. The wicked and the righteous. This is the stone of stumbling for the Jews. The stone that was rejected has become the cornerstone.

          Now the deception of the djinn will build on this error you are making, and in fact this is the error all the Goats of the faith will make. When Jesus is seen only as the Son of God, he is made equal only with the “sons of God” who are the fallen angels. To those who do not see Jesus as God, they will not be able to distinguish the difference. The Antichrist will appear to have the Holy Ghost when in fact It is the spirit of the djinn, (demons).

          I know these comments are harsh, but I say them in love, for a soul I care deeply about. As are all the souls that will fall into this deception. They are our family members, our spouses, and our children, and our friends. “I have said these things to you to keep you from falling away. 2. They will put you out of the synogogues. Indeed the hour is coming when whoever kills you will think they are offering service to God. 3. and they will do these things because they HAVE NOT KNOWN THE FATHER , NOR ME.” (John16:1-3)

          Be Like Christ and Humble yourself, Not like those who do not have an open mind. I have answered your “question” (Not me but the bible), I have read your verses and given you One from Paul which explains away your theory. God is with us, and I am assured of this. As the Spirit of God resides in me. As I have pointed out on many occasions to Muslims. These truths are not from some Man who explained them to me, but from the Spirit of Truth. These are a real part of my faith.

        • Marianne,

          You say you believe the scriptures but you are going beyond what is written. Yeshua’s identity is vitally important to each of our souls. His identity is obvious to those of us who know the Lord and who He is…He is God.

          Currently you are believing the spirit of anti-christ and I hope for you and your salvation in knowing the true God, YHVH, through Jesus Christ our Lord.

          1 Corinthians 12:3
          Therefore I make known to you that no one speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus is accursed”; and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
          (Apostle Paul)

          Titus 2:13
          looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus
          (Apostle Paul)

          2 Peter 1:1
          Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ
          (Apostle Peter)

          John 20:28
          Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!”
          (Apostle Thomas)

          Matthew 1:22-23
          “Now all this took place to fulfill what was spoken by the Lord through the prophet: “BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME [y]IMMANUEL,” which translated means, “GOD WITH US.”
          (Apostle Matthew)

          John 1:1-14 (THE WORD IS GOD
          In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God….And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us the only begotten Son.
          (Apostle John)

          1 John 1:1-2 (THE WORD IS THE SON)
          What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life— and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us—
          (Apostle John)

          God the Word is the God who became flesh and dwelt among us *As the only begotten Son*.

          Isaiah 9:6
          For a child will be BORN to us, a SON will be given to us;
          And the government will rest on His shoulders; And His name will be called Wonderful Counselor, MIGHTY GOD,
          ETERNAL FATHER, Prince of Peace.
          (Prophet Isaiah)

          The child born IS the Mighty God and also the Eternal Father.

          John 14:9
          Jesus said to him, “Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
          (Jesus the WORD GOD who became flesh)

          The child born, a son, is Mighty God AND is also the Eternal Father.

          Jesus clearly said, “Before Abraham was IAM” …”If you do not believe IAM you will die in your sins”. The Pharisees KNEW exactly what Jesus was saying and picked up stones to stone Him, the penalty for blasphemy. Jesus said He was IAM.

          Marianne, if you do not believe Jesus is ‘IAM’ (God), you will die in your sins.

          Jesus, Yeshua, is YHVH God. He was here with us in the flesh.

          God came in the flesh.

          Simeon the prophet, days after Jesus birth at the temple, referred DIRECTLY TO Isaiah’s Immanuel prophecy, which says Immanuel is the SIGN (remember the sign would be as High as Heaven):

          Luke 2:34
          And Simeon blessed them and said to Mary His mother, “Behold, this Child is appointed for the fall and rise of many in Israel, and for a SIGN TO BE OPPOSED. (virgin birth)
          (Prophet Simeon)

          There is only ONE Savior–YHVH GOD.

          Isaiah 45:21
          Is it not I, YHVH? And there is NO OTHER GOD BESIDES ME, a righteous God AND a Savior; There is NONE EXCEPT ME.
          (Prophet Isaiah)

          Acts 20:28
          shepherd the church of GOD which HE purchased with HIS OWN BLOOD.
          (Apostle Paul)

          Jesus is the First and the Last, YHVH God.

          Revelation 2:8
          The FIRST and the LAST, who was DEAD, and has come to life, says this
          (Jesus Christ, YHVH God, The Word who became flesh and died)

          Isaiah 41:4
          I, YHVH, I am the FIRST and with the LAST I am He.
          (YHVH God speaking through Prophet Isaiah)

          Isaiah 44:6
          Thus says YHVH, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, YHVH of hosts: *I am the FIRST and I am the LAST*, And there is no God besides Me.
          (YHVH God)

          Remember, the Revelation says the First and Last was dead but is now alive.

          1Timothy 6:14-16
          the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ, which He will bring about at the proper time—He who is the blessed and ONLY Sovereign, THE KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS, who ALONE POSSESSES IMMORTALITY and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see.
          (Apostle Paul)

          WHO is this King of kings and Lord of lords…WHO alone is immortal…WHO is the one whom no man has seen or can see?

          He is the one who was VEILED in FLESH as the only begotten Son, the Lamb Himself.

          Revelation 17:14
          These will wage war against the LAMB, and the LAMB will overcome them, because *HE IS* LORD OF LORDS and KING OF KINGS, and those who are with Him are the called and chosen and faithful.

          YHVH protect the brethren, those who have ears to hear and eyes to see. YHVH

          Sincere Love to you Marianne. I am leaving the thread now.

          • A lamb
            Thank you, that was beautifully said. As you can see Marianne though we have differences when it comes to the sabbath, we are one in Christ, One in the same with almighty God, The “I AM” Spoken of in Genesis From the very beginning.

        • Marianne, you said, “Of course Jesus was before Abraham”

          This is true, but it is not exactly what Jesus said.

          He did NOT say, “Before Abraham was, I *was*”……

          He did not merely say He preexisted Abraham.

          He said, “Before Abraham was, I AM.” To say this either means Jesus had no grasp of grammatical structure, or it means He was calling Himself God.

          He was calling Himself God.

          There is only ONE Who is eternal, only ONE Who can be called “I AM.” That is YHVH.

          God was manifest in the flesh.

          “And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: *God* was manifest *in the flesh*, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, *received up into glory*.” – 1 Timothy 3:16

          God was manifest in the flesh.

          ***God*** was received up into glory.

          The Son was received up into glory by the Father. The Son and the Father are truly, as Jesus said, ONE.

          How is God all of Father, Son, and Spirit simultaneously? I don’t know. I don’t need to know. I need to believe.

          You have a lot of people praying for you. We all have your best interest at heart. Don’t shake this off. Meditate on these verses.

  27. dru, Alamb, and sissy

    You have all demonstrated you cannot read english,

    Earlier, I was intervening because you had misinterpreted what each other said.

    Now, you cannot read or interpret what I say.

    I am sorry you lack this ability.

    DO not read into what I said.

    I repeated only what scripture says.

    You have read into scripture, and put in words that were not there.

    You are defending something that does not need defending.

    Your comprehension is poor.

    Reading skills are poor.

    When you get off this demon kick, I will reopen this page.

    Pompous comments and false accusations are not appreciated.

    I do not need to be preached to.

    You do not need to be in a bible discussion if you cannot have at least a comprehension of what is being said.

    And for the I am vs I was…that is really stupid…. you should have understood that I was speaking in past tense, since the incident mentioned occurred in the past.

    I tolerate people reading into scriptures things that are not said, hoping they will eventually think through things.

    However, if you do not have the capacity to think through what you are concluding, from what is written, you do not belong on this site….especially when you show intolerance and judgment toward others with your false conclusions.

  28. I pray the peace of God and the blood of Jesus covers this website tonight, and protect it from spirits of strife, deception, and division.

    I pray blessings over this site, and that the gospel shall continue, in spite of attacks.

    May all those confused as to what happened have their minds cleared and set at peace.

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