Tribulation – timing and patterns

There is much discussion about the pattern and timing of events that will occur in the Tribulation.

I thought I would lay out different options, for people to consider.

Click here for more


~ by Marianne on November 18, 2010.

11 Responses to “Tribulation – timing and patterns”

  1. In the last persecution of the Holy Roman Church, Peter the Roman will hold the see (lit. “sit”),who will pasture his sheep in many tribulations:and when these things are finished, the city of seven hills will be destroyed,and the terrible judge will judge his people.The End—–Prophecy of St. Malachy(
    Pope Benedict XVI born in 1927; in 2010, he is 83 years old now.
    Who will be the next pope?

    Jesus Christ will Return in the year A.D. 2437.-by Ron Conte.

  2. Sunimal;
    I still think we have a ways to got until the Lord’s return, but I do expect to be around. Especially if you look at the Exponential Curve video I posted on:

    Here’s a recent video about St Malachy’s prophecy.


    How can the “rapture” be “imminent”? Acts 3:21 says that Jesus “must” stay in heaven (He is now there with the Father) “until the times of restitution of all things” which includes, says Scofield, “the restoration of the theocracy under David’s Son” which obviously can’t begin before or during Antichrist’s reign. Since Jesus must personally participate in the rapture, and since He can’t even leave heaven before the tribulation ends, the rapture therefore cannot take place before the end of the trib! Paul explains the “times and the seasons” (I Thess. 5:1) of the catching up (I Thess. 4:17) as the “day of the Lord” (5:2) which FOLLOWS the posttrib sun/moon darkening (Matt. 24:29; Acts 2:20) WHEN “sudden destruction” (5:3) of the wicked occurs! (If the wicked are destroyed before or during the trib, who would be left alive to serve the Antichrist?) Paul also ties the change-into-immortality “rapture” (I Cor. 15:52) to the posttrib end of “death” (15:54). (Will death be ended before or during the trib? Of course not! And vs. 54 is also tied to Isa. 25:8 which is Israel’s posttrib resurrection!) If anyone wonders how long pretrib rapturism has been taught, he or she can Google “Pretrib Rapture Diehards.” Many are unaware that before 1830 all Christians had always viewed I Thess. 4’s “catching up” as an integral part of the final second coming to earth. In 1830 it was stretched forward and turned into a separate coming of Christ. To further strengthen their novel view, which the mass of evangelical scholars rejected throughout the 1800s, pretrib teachers in the early 1900s began to stretch forward the “day of the Lord” (what Darby and Scofield never dared to do) and hook it up with their already-stretched-forward “rapture.” Many leading evangelical scholars still weren’t convinced of pretrib, so pretrib teachers then began teaching that the “falling away” of II Thess. 2:3 is really a pretrib rapture (the same as saying that the “rapture” in 2:3 must happen before the “rapture” [“gathering”] in 2:1 can happen – the height of desperation!). Other Google articles throwing light on long-covered-up facts about the 180-year-old pretrib rapture view include “Famous Rapture Watchers,” “X-Raying Margaret,” “Edward Irving is Unnerving,” “Thomas Ice (Bloopers),” “Wily Jeffrey,” “The Rapture Index (Mad Theology),” “America’s Pretrib Rapture Traffickers,” “Roots of (Warlike) Christian Zionism,” “Scholars Weigh My Research,” “Pretrib Hypocrisy,” “Pretrib Rapture Secrecy,” and “Deceiving and Being Deceived” – all by the author of the bestselling book “The Rapture Plot” which is available at Armageddon Books online. Just my two cents’ worth.

  4. We are definitely taken out BEFORE G-d’s WRATH, this I am certain.

    Whether or not we are here for all or part of the tribulation, this I am not certain and I am still looking for the answers in the scriptures.

    The one verse that I remember is Matthew 24. Here Jesus is telling his disciples “AFTER the tribulation….solar/lunar eclipses….then you will see the SIGN of the SON Of MAN….is this the rapture OR Jesus returning to fight for Jerusalem? And if the latter, then when did the rapture occur?

  5. Marianne;
    Scripture never mentions that the tribulation is meant to be a time of testing for Christians.

    Placing the Church dispensation into the same time frame as the seven-year Jewish dispensation, as the post-tribbers do, raises one good question: Can two dispensations transpire at the same time? In the past, God has only dealt with one at a time. Having both present during the tribulation would have to be an exception.

    Matthew 24 is addressed to the Jews. The doctrine of “Imminence”
    is about being ready for the rapture, even when there was no Israel around.

    Is there a danger in the pre-tribulation rapture doctrine? Yes, there is lots of danger in this doctrine. It makes people believe they are ready for Christ to return when there are still sinful habits in their lives. They will be one of the foolish virgins, who do not have enough oil in their lamps. (The amount of oil is the only difference found in the parable between the wise and the foolish virgins.)The foolish virgins say that the only thing required to get into the wedding banquet is belief in Jesus. How does belief in Jesus translate into not enough oil? They have some oil, but not enough. The oil cannot represent belief because either you have accepted Christ as Savior, or you haven’t. Either you are a believer, or you are not a believer. There is no quantity/amount involved. The oil involves works that lead to the overcoming of all our sinful habits.

    Looking or Living? Does the context really imply looking? Let’s think about it. Why look? Are we supposed to look in order to avoid destruction? That doesn’t make sense because the destruction represents no danger to Christians. Even the post-trib scheme has the Christian safely raptured before destruction falls. If the destruction of the day of the Lord is no danger to us, why look for it? I consider that the primary duty of a day person is to stay awake rather than to look. I understand that “looking” does not make sense in this context.


    Double reference in prophecy is common; so it provides a perfectly acceptable solution. Neither side has to give up their strongest arguments. Pre-tribulationists retain their reference to Israel, while those who have been post-tribulationists retain their reference to the church. Everything is explained. The post-trib context is explained. The unknown day’s apparent contradiction with the known day of Daniel and Revelation is explained. Now nothing remains to hold back both sides from this new ground of agreement. We all can unreservedly unite under one banner proclaiming the doctrine, “Be ye also ready for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.” And as the icing on the cake, this interpretation is not forced from the outside, but by answering the internal riddles it arises from the very text itself, and that, after all, is what sound exegesis is all about.

    The Twelve-Hundred-Sixty-Day Countdown. It fascinates me to watch Scripture harmonize. For quite awhile, even after being convinced that tribulation believers can know the day of Christ’s return, I had not discovered this next pair of verses that I want to show you. But they were there all the time. Now they are the clearest and most convincing evidence, at least to me, that tribulation saints can calculate the exact day.

    Recall from Revelation 13:5–7 two powers given to the beast. One was “mouth power” which we just finished talking about. Now let’s talk about the other, “persecution power.” This next pair of passages deals with his persecution power and its forty-to-month duration.

    So far we have seen that it is the abomination of desolation which begins the three and one-half years, and it is the abomination which begins the forty-two months. But what about the twelve hundred sixty days? Does the abomination begin that too?

    Revelation 12:6 does not reveal the occasion of fleeing for safety for the twelve hundred sixty days. But if you are thinking ahead, you know already what I’m getting at. If not, Matthew 24:15–16 will give it away.

    When he therefore shall see the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand) then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains.
    Amazing, isn’t it? Jesus pinpoints the moment of fleeing for safety, namely, the abomination of desolation.

    Revelation 12 and Matthew 24 make a great team. Matthew 24 names the event (“abomination of desolation”) while Revelation 12 dates the event (1260 days).

    Yes, if I were going through the tribulation and spotted the abomination, you can be sure I would calculate the twelve hundred sixty days very carefully on my calendar or on the wall of my cave.

    The parable of the virgins (Matthew 25:1–13), amazingly enough, follows the identical pattern of the Noah illustration and the goodman illustration. The double-reference interpretation fits snugly and comfortably, not only one way, or two ways, but in three ways.

    Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. Afterwards came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.
    Let me ask you a couple easy questions first. The five wise virgins and the five foolish virgins are waiting to attend the wedding. Who do the five wise virgins represent? They represent tribulation saints. Remember, we are saying within the framework of the context which places these illustrations in a tribulational time setting.

    Second question, who do the foolish virgins represent? The bridegroom says to them, “I know you not.” So the foolish virgins must be unbelievers.

    Now, into which category do the disciples fit? Not the foolish virgins. How about the wise virgins? Are the disciples like the wise virgins waiting to attend the wedding? Well, yes and no. The disciples will be at the wedding all right, but not as attendants. They are the bride! You and I are not virgins who attend the wedding, we are the bride at the wedding. If this parable were talking about the rapture of the bride, we might entitle it, “The Case of the Missing Bride.”

    Therefore, neither category fits the disciples perfectly, but the double-reference fits perfectly because it recognizes two groups of redeemed people.

    The illustration of the virgins carries a different twist to it, because it dwells not so much on knowing or not knowing, but it emphasizes readiness or preparedness. Perhaps this is why it stands separate from Noah and the goodman instead of following immediately after them.

    wise virgins


    attend wedding

    foolish virgins

    not ready

    miss wedding



    bride at wedding

    Some have said that the virgins represent the church because the church is called a “virgin” in 2 Corinthians 11:2. Others have said the virgins represent Israel because Israel is called a “virgin” in Jeremiah 18:13. But “virgin” in these verses is singular, not plural. Is the church ten virgins? Or are there ten Israels? No, rather than representing Israel or the church, the parable of the virgins depicts people in general living during the tribulation, saved and unsaved, Jew or Gentile. This interpretation avoids the oddity of the church being made up of multiple virgins, it allows the foolish virgins to be unsaved (“I know you not”), and it matches the illustrations of Noah and the goodman which depict the saved and the unsaved of the tribulation.

    Viewing the bride and her attendants as two different groups harmonizes with common sense and with other Scripture. Just as we saw that a period of time following the rapture is to call out a righteous people to populate the millennium, so God has a period of time following the receiving of the bride in order to call out the bride’s attendants. These are “the virgins her companions that follow her” (Psalms 45:14). The “friends of the bridegroom” are Old Testament saints (John 3:29). In this way the wedding is completely furnished—friends, bride, and attendants; none are missing, but all have their counterparts in real life as prophecy is fulfilled.

    • Reading the Seals and Trumpets carefully-forward and backward-I noticed the following in Revelations 7:13Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes—who are they, and where did they come from?”

      14 I answered, “Sir, you know.”

      And he said, “THESE ARE THEY WHO HAVE COME OUT OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

      Revelations 6:9When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the SOULS OF THOSE WHO HAD BEEN SLAIN BECAUSE OF THE WORD OF G-D AND THE TESTIMONY THEY HAD MAINTAINED 10They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” 11Then EACH OF THEM WAS GIVEN A WHITE ROBE, and they were TOLD TO WAIT a little longer, UNTIL the number of their fellow servants and brothers WHO WERE TO BE KILLED as they had been was completed.

      *I think these 2 verses show that there are christians going through the tribulation.

      Regarding Jesus speaking to Israel in Matthew 24. Israel is sealed in Revelations 7…12000 for each 12 Tribes.

      G-d is setting them apart/sealing them/protecting them from his upcoming wrath that comes with the trumpets being blown in Revelations 8

      Back to Revelations 6:12 I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, 13and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as late figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. 14The sky receded like a scroll, rolling up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.

      *Matthew 24, Jesus says, AFTER the tribulation the sun will turn dark as sackcloth and the moon to blood. So perhaps Seal 6 is the end of the tribulation AND BEFORE THE WRATH.

      15Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and every slave and every free man hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from THE WRATH OF THE LAMB! 17For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can stand?”

      Regarding not knowing the day of the hour, again, this is referencing the Jewish Holy Feast day-Feast of Trumpets. This is the only feast day that “no one knows the day or hour it begins”, hence the reason for 2 witnesses (sound familiar) to confirm the sighting of the new moon and the reason why they celebrate for an additional day, because they don’t know the day or the hour that it begins.

      Regarding the foolish virgins…..I have read where the “oil” represents the Torah and/or the Holy Spirit.

      Succinctly, I was taught under Baptist “theology” that Pre-trib is accurate. But they also left out the 2nd baptism as well, so I am not confident in their teachings other than that Jesus Christ is Lord. So with that said, from reading the scriptures for myself, I am not seeing where we are taken out of the tribulation; I am seeing where we are taken out BEFORE THE WRATH. Tribuation is simply DISTRESSING TIMES and we obviously experiencing distress and we are obviously still here :).

      If Christians are not to go through the “tribulation”, then who is being killed for their faith? and who is giving the word of their testimony?

  6. Marianne;

    I’m a visual person. There’s lots of choices on Charts. They probably are all Pre-trib of course.

    Did you look at this chart?

    Arnold Fruchtenbaum has 15 charts on The Book Revelation:

    You can download the charts on this link:

    This one is really colorful:

  7. History lesson: Adolf Hitler’s Nazis secretly set fire to the German Reichstag on February 27, 1933. Hitler burned down his own nation’s parliament and blamed it on his opponents. The public outrage gave Hitler the emergency powers he needed to implement fascist control of Germany. Today’s news from Berlin: German intelligence agencies fear al-Qaeda hit squad will launch bloody gun fight inside German Reichstag. Is history repeating itself? Could it happen here too? Would the shadow men dare to bomb the U.S. Capital building?

    Be prepared for the unthinkable in the weeks and months ahead. We are in perilous times. America will soon enter a Nazi-like lock-down. Travel will be restricted. Darkness is coming soon to America.

  8. I have been often amazed as to how many people look towards the tribulation, the antichrist in fear instead of dwelling with Jesus now and forever..

    are ??

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