3 Final End Time Battles, not One
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Many have a tendency to combine all 3 battles into one war.
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Scripture describes each one as different from the others in timing, signs in nature, and participants:
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1. Battle of Jehosaphat – 6th seal
2. Battle of Armadgeddon – 6th vial
3. Gog and Magog war – after the Millenium
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6th seal and the Valley of Jehosaphat near Jerusalem – central Israel
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1. The sun turns dark and the moon turns red
2. The land has been divided and given to its enemies
3. Lebanon and Gaza are the main causes and instigators of conflict
4. The surrounding nations join them against Israel
5. The earth will shake, and will reel to and fro like a drunkard
6. The Lord will return on Mount of Olives and cleave it in two with his foot
7. Light will come at evening time.
8. In Mt Zion and in Jerusalem there is deliverance
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Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for [it is] nigh at hand; |
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A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, [even] to the years of many generations. |
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A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land [is] as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them. |
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The appearance of them [is] as the appearance of horses; and as horsemen, so shall they run. |
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Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array. |
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Before their face the people shall be much pained: all faces shall gather blackness. |
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They shall run like mighty men; they shall climb the wall like men of war; and they shall march every one on his ways, and they shall not break their ranks: |
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Neither shall one thrust another; they shall walk every one in his path: and [when] they fall upon the sword, they shall not be wounded. |
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They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief. |
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The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining: |
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The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. |
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And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call. |
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For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem, |
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I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and [for] my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land |
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And they have cast lots for my people; and have given a boy for an harlot, and sold a girl for wine, that they might drink. |
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Yea, and what have ye to do with me, O Tyre, and Zidon {Lebanon- Hezbollah], and all the coasts of Palestine [Gaza- Hamas]? will ye render me a recompence? and if ye recompense me, swiftly [and] speedily will I return your recompence upon your own head; |
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The children also of Judah and the children of Jerusalem have ye sold unto the Grecians, that ye might remove them far from their border |
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Proclaim ye this among the Gentiles; Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up: |
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Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I [am] strong. |
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Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O LORD. |
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Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about. |
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Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness [is] great. |
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Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD [is] near in the valley of decision. |
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The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining. |
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The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD [will be] the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel. |
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Amo 5:18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end [is] it for you? the day of the LORD [is] darkness, and not light.
Amo 8:9 And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord GOD, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day: |
Isa 24:5 Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.
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The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly. |
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The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again. |
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And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones [that are] on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth. |
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And they shall be gathered together, [as] prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited. |
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Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously. |
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Does not mention sun and moon, but occurs at Jerusalem, light after Christ return:
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For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. |
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Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. |
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And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which [is] before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, [and there shall be] a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. |
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And ye shall flee [to] the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, [and] all the saints with thee. |
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And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] the light shall not be clear, [nor] dark: |
Pictures of the valley – notice it is small and narrow:
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Battle at Meggido – Armageddon – north Israel
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1. Not mentioned in Old Testament prophecy
2. Mentioned in Rev 16 at the 6th vial
3. Does not mention involvement of or presence of the Israeli people, only the location there
4. Nations are drawn by demons from the mouth of the dragon
5. No sun or moon changes are mentioned
6. Euphrates river dried up so kings of east can attack the location
7. No deliverance of Jerusalem is mentioned
8. “Greatest earthquake” in the history of the world occurs
9. All nations of the world come, not just surrounding nations
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Picture of the valley – notice how huge and wide it is- the ancient city of Megiddo sits on top of the Megiddo mountain:
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And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared. |
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And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs [come] out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. |
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For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, [which] go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. |
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And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. |
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And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, [and] so great. |
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And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. |
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And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. |
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Gog and Magog war – attack against peaceful Israel
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1. Israel at peace – Believers are back, Messianic time
2. After the millennium
3. Satan himself leads the attack
4. Great earthquake but not the “greatest”
5. The enemies are destroyed by God and become bird food
6. It takes 7 months to bury the dead
7. It takes 7 years to burn the weapons
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Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him, |
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Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet: |
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Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: [and] many people with thee. |
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After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land [that is] brought back from the sword, [and is] gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them. |
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And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates, |
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To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places [that are now] inhabited, and upon the people [that are] gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land. |
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Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take a spoil? hast thou gathered thy company to take a prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take a great spoil? |
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Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith the Lord GOD; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know [it]? |
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And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army: |
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For in my jealousy [and] in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; |
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So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that [are] upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground. |
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And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that [are] with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone. |
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Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that [is] with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and [to] the beasts of the field to be devoured. |
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And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years: |
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And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land. |
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And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the [noses] of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call [it] The valley of Hamongog. |
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And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, [even] a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood. |
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And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, |
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And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom [is] as the sand of the sea. |
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And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. |
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And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. |
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Good news
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Messiah Jesus returns at the 6th seal to rescue all believers – Jewish
and non Jewish.
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Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: |
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And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. |
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And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. |
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Jesus returns at the Battle of Jehoshaphat, at Jerusalem.
Jesus is not mentioned at the battle of Armageddon in Revelation 16.
Believing Israel does not have to suffer through the wrath of God to get saved. They are removed to safety by then.
The first 6 seals was enough suffering, and persecution, for anyone in faith.
It is announced by Revelation 7 that the Great Tribulation is “over.”
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After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; |
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And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? |
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And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. |
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I think that the battle of Armageddon would have been mentioned in the Old Testament if it applied to believing Israel, but it wasn’t.
Jacob’s trouble is over by now, which is only supposed to be 3 ½ years, not 7 years.
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I believe that the last week of Daniel is over by the 6th seal, and the
time or wrath begins (events in Rev 8-18), which is reserved only
for the beast, the wicked, and unrepentant.
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See also:
Revelation and the 5 Earthquakes
Tribulation – Timing and Patterns
How does Gog and Magog Relate to Armageddon?
Jerusalem will be divided under 2 Governments
Jesus – the Hallel and the 4 Day Gap in Prophecy
Heaven Awaits 
Marianne, you go girl! lol. Deep stuff! Amen.
hi elias
yeah, God is really deep, isn’t he? 🙂
I disagree with two major points.
I believe that the wat of Gogr (Ezekiel 38-39) will occur before or during the tribulation. The war is described as an attack on Israel by its enemies. It is a religious war so by the end of the millennium, there will only be one religion – no more Jews or Muslims, and Christ will have turned the swords into plowshares and ended war forever – among nations anyway.
The war against Satan after he is released at the end of the millennium will be a war between good and evil, not a military campaign.
The war of Gog is likely to be started by Iran in the near future. Ahmadinejad has already vowed to wipe Israel off the map and other Islamic states have agreed to join him. Gog will likely be the Muslim xx caliph, so look for the restoration of the caliphate in the near future.
This war may in fact precipitate WW3 – the second horseman of the apocalypse. This will include the battles of Daniel – the kings of the north against the kings of the south.
Christ will return to end WW3 to prevent the whole word from destroying itself (no flesh left alive). But Jesus will face a world of unbelievers and they will decide to attack Him in Jerusalem. This will be Armageddon. The forces will gather in the Megiddo valley, then advance on Jerusalem, but they will only get within 50 miles of it at the valley of Jehosephat where the angels of the Lord will defeat them. This will be one battle, not two.
lYou have to be careful when comparing biblical references. Quite often the same events are described by different prophets, but due to the way they interpret their visions – what they decide to include and how they describe it – some readers will over-analyze the text and come to the conclusion that while similar, the events are not the same. This is exactly how the concept of the rapture is able to flourish. Different apostles describing the second coming slightly differently has allowed them to conclude that they are separate events. I don’t think the bible was written to be scrutinized so analytically in order to be understood. I tend to try to keep it simple. God is not the author of confusion, so I try not to make His word more complicated than it really is.
Anyway, we will all know the truth soon enough.
Bless…
Hi Marianne and all,
Just curious as to what led you to believe that the Gog and Magog war takes place at the end of the millennial period? If anything, the clues to this war match the time when Christ returns at the end of the age. Compare Ezekiel with Revelation:
Prophecy of Gog: (Ezk.39:17-20)
“Son of man, this is what the Sovereign Lord says: Call out to every kind of bird and all the wild animals: Assemble and come together from all around to the sacrifice I am preparing for you, the great sacrifice on the mountains of Israel. There you will eat the flesh of mighty men and drink the blood of the princes of the earth as if they were rams and lambs, goats and bulls–all of them fattened animals from Bashan. At the sacrifice I am preparing for you, you will eat fat till you are glutted and drink blood till you are drunk. At my table you will eat your fill of horses and riders, mighty ment and soldiers of every kind, declares the Sovereign Lord.
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The great supper of God at the end of the age: (Rev.19:17-18)
“And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the brids flying in midair, ‘Come, gather together for the great supper of God, so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and mighty men, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, small and great.’ ”
“The rest of them were kiled with the sword that came out of the mouth of the rider ont he horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.”
(Rev.19:21)
Notice the simularities of both events where the birds eat the flesh of mighty men, kings, princes, horses and riders and soldiers of every kind. Just because Gog and Magog are mentioned in Rev.20:8 does not necessarily mean that this is the same event in Ezekiel, but that they may be the same lineage of people or that Gog and Magog may be symbolic for the type of people that surround Jerusalem at the end of the millennium and that because Satan will have been released from the Abyss after being locked up for a thousand years.
Just some food for thought, no pun intended, well ok, it was intended, he, he….
dear james and dmcal
I agree that gog and magog represent ancient enemies that have been and will always attack Israel. They have been around for 4000 years, and will not go away until the final war.
The only time gog is mentioned in revelation is after the millenium, which is why I tied in the Ezech 38 war to it.
But they will be involved with the battle of jehosaphat, the battle of armageddon, and the final war after the millenium.
Apparently, there is a remnant of gog after the first two wars, and it takes the final battle after the millenium to completely eradicate them.
Hi Marianne and all,
Another point to bring up regarding the event of Ezekiel and Revelation is that, at the Ezekiel event, the destruction is accomplished by God alone, that is, Gog, Magog, Meshech, Tubal, Gomer and all of their hordes, God will turn every man’s sword against his own brother making himself known to many nations and so they will defeat themselves out on the mountains of Israel and this so that the nations will no that it is God who will be the one responsible for doing this.
Now, the above senario does not match the event at the end of the millennium. The earth will have had a thousand years of peace without the temptation of Satan and his angels and as soon as he is let out of the Abyss, he goes and gathers people from every part of the earth, Gog and Magog and they march across the breadth of the earth and surround the camp of God’s people, that is, Jerusalem and God rains fire and sulfur down upon them, which as I stated does not match the Ezekiel event.
Some other points to consider is that, after the destruction in the Ezekiel event, Israel will go out and gather together the weapons of war of the fallen and will use them for fuel for seven years and therefore Scripture states that they will not have to cut down any timber from their forests. Also, Israel will go out to bury the dead of Gog, Magog and her hordes for seven months in order to cleanse the land. In contrast, at the end of the millennium after God rains down fire and sulfer upon them, the resurrection of those in death and Hades takes place where they stand before God at the great white throne judgment and this present heaven and earth pass away and no place is found for them (Rev.20:7-11-15).
so there may be 2 gog events…. when do you see them happening?
Hi Marianne and all,
Ibid that the Ezekiel event where God puts hooks into the jaw of Gog, Magog and all their hordes and pulls them down is related to the time period of Armageddon where the double-edged sword procedes from the mouth of the Lord (The word of God) and all that have been gathered there all fall dead, then the birds that will have been gathered together will eat all their flesh just as Ezk.39:17-20 and
Rev.19:17-21 depict.
The event of Gog and Magog that Satan gathers together after he is released from the Abyss takes place at the end of the thousand years. Some of the differences are that in the Ezekiel event it states that God causes every man’s sword to be against one another, where in the event at the end of the thousand years, God rains fire and sulfur out of heaven upon them. Also, in the Ezekiel event, it is said that God brings Gog and all their hordes from the far north, where in the event at the end of the thousand years, it is stated that Gog and Magog are gathered from the four corners of the earth.
So to recap, the Ezekiel event may may be apart of the Armegeddon event as Christ is returning to the earth at the end of the age where the birds have all been gathered together as mentioned in both events and the other Gog/Magog event takes place at the end of the millennial period.
Marianne said:
#1. Battle of Jehosaphat – 6th seal
I believe the Sixth Seal sees the church gathered up out of the bloodshed and carnage being dispensed by Antichrist. The spiritual and physical warfare raging on earth at the time of the Sixth Seal (clay portion of ten toes of Daniel’s metalman) is unspeakable. At the Sixth Seal or Second Coming the heavens open as a scroll and the promise made to the apostles/deciples at Christ’s ascention is fulfilled. ” Ac 1:11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. ‘ And Marianne is right, event/battle of the Sixth Seal is different to the event/battle of the Sixth Vial. .
#2 . Battle of Armadgeddon – 6th vial
I believe the Seventh Seal contains the Seven Trumpets that contain the Six Vials or plagues determined on the damned….all occuring after the Church ascended during the Sixth Seal. Everything mentioned in the first five vials are the wicked basically choking on the blood they themselves shed (reaping what they have sewn).
Thus, here is Marianne’s # 2 event/battle:….6th Vial/Armageddon: : It comes near the end of the physical destruction of the wicked…however/whenever/whereever/whatever the time/place of occurance. It is the Victor action against the defeated wicked. It is God neutralizing the advesary. It is the cleansing of evil in preparation for the eternal rule and reign of Righteousness on a new earth. It is all God. Satan ceased to be a player in the war when he was ‘bound’ at the Second Coming.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. It is the same event of Rev 14: 18-20 where God shows John a type of the end of the wicked. As clusters of grapes they are reaped from their evil source vine and thrust into the great winepress of God to be trodden under foot until their juice (blood) is harvested. Armageddon is the event/battle to which the White Horseman of Rev. 19:11-15….the Captain of our Salvation rides.
#3. Gog and Magog war – after the Millenium
This event/battle is simply the final type shown John at Patmos of the destruction of the advesary and his followers. After the thousand years satan and his angels are released from their restraints. They come out of the pit with the same appetite for God’s death. Satan still desires to ‘ devour her child as soon as it was born Rev. 12:4. They instantly (since they are spirit) spread across the breadth of the earth like germs for the purpose of gathering all evil into their forces. They encircle the camp of the saints and reap their own destruction since their power ended at the Second Coming.
Re 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
hi elias
Thanks for the analysis…just one thing…i could be wrong about any believers being around….after 6th seal… rev 11 speaks of the 2 witnesses and in v13, people gave glory to God after an earthquake… i have to work though the 7th seals to see who is still there and who isn’t. rev 9 also says those with the seal of god on their foreheads (144k) are still there.. maybe they stick around after others are gone.?
thank you for sharing, I love to see the WORD written all over especially on the internet, I loved the way you explain it.
Marianne, you are welcome..lol. I’m almost ready to post a general overview of Revelations at my site (finishing chapter 19 now). I feed on Revelations and end time prophecy the way kids love ice cream …lol. In that overview I give my view of the timeline on the two witnesses.
Consider what would be if the two witnesses are literally preaching the gospel of the kingdom (Matt 24:14) ‘as a witness’ to the only nation in the world who has not heard it…the deaf/blind remnant of Israel (Isa 6:10) whom God gave ears that can’t hear ‘to this day.’ Consider that Elias is one of the two witnesses. So…in the office of forerunner….his visit here at the end time in Rev. 11: 11-13 precedes the Second Coming of Messiah. Thus, the event immediately precedes the Sixth Seal. And if the two witnesses precede the Second Coming of Messiah to gather the Church…then the healing/restoration of the covenant Remnant (Rev. 11:13) precedes the Second Coming/Sixth Seal. This restored remnant now hears and believes the Gospel of the Kingdom just as their brethren who were left ‘to come by Grace’ recognized forerunner Elias (John the Baptist) at Christ’s first coming. Their ‘hearing/seeing’..response is Rev. 11:13…as they are ‘affrighted and gave glory to the God of heaven. Now, as promised in Matt 24:14…’then shall the end come’ and the earth is already shaking!! lol.
Mt 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Food for thought…just saying….lol.
well, I have to see how the 7th seals finalizes the redemption of Israel.
the 2 witnesses leave before it…..but it seems like they might actually leave at the 6th seal….just that their story is told separately…and once the believers are gone, they leave too….just before the 7th seal..
but then who are those in Rev 11?
is it possible to give glory to god and still not be saved?
Here is my 2 cents and how I interpret some of it, regarding this 6th. seal premise.
Paul was given the mystery regarding a specific resurrection from Yeshua when he was caught up to heaven.
It wouldn’t have been a mystery if it was simply regarding the resurrection that the Pharisees’ happened to already believe in at the time. Therefore he was revealing something that was newly acquired.
Within the early translations, (including the Vulgate) 2 Thessalonians 2:3 was previously translated as “depature” rather than “falling away”. This eliminates the confusion regarding this passage simply because it lines up with verse 7 in the necessity of the Spirit being taken away first, before (verse 8) the wicked being revealed.
Below are a few examples;
The Wycliffe Bible, translated by John Wycliffe, 1395.
2 Thessalonians 2:1-3.
2Th 2:1 But, britheren, we preien you bi the comyng of oure Lord Jhesu Crist, and of oure congregacioun in to the same comyng,
2Th 2:2 that ye be not mouyd soone fro youre witt, nether be aferd, nether bi spirit, nether bi word, nether bi epistle as sent bi vs, as if the dai of the Lord be nyy.
2Th 2:3 No man disseyue you in ony manere. For but “dissencioun” come first, and the man of synne be schewid, the sonne of perdicioun,
The Tyndale Bible, translated by William Tyndale, 1534.
2 Thessalonians 2:1-3.
2Th 2:1 We beseche you brethren by the commynge of oure lorde Iesu Christ and in that we shall assemble vnto him
2Th 2:2 that ye be not sodely moved from youre mynde and be not troubled nether by sprete nether by wordes nor yet by letter which shuld seme to come from vs as though the daye of Christ were at honde.
2Th 2:3 Let no ma deceave you by eny meanes for the lorde commeth not excepte ther come a “departynge” fyrst and that that synfnll man be opened ye sonne of perdicion
Coverdale Bible, translated by Miles Coverdale, 1535.
2 Thessalonians 2:1-3.
2Th 2:1 We beseke you brethren by the commynge of or LORDE Iesus Christ, and in that we shal assemble vnto him,
2Th 2:2 that ye be not sodenly moued fro youre mynde, and be not troubled, nether by sprete, nether by wordes, ner yet by letter, which shulde seme to be sent from vs, as though ye daye of Christ were at hande.
2Th 2:3 Let noman disceaue you by eny meanes. For the LORDE commeth not, excepte the “departynge” come first, and that that Man of synne be opened, euen the sonne of perdicion,
Yeshua makes 2 statements regarding this specific resurrection in Luke.
While answering the Sadducees question regarding the resurrection, (which they didn’t believe was to occur, yet the Pharisees’ believed in, but that it would only occur at the very end of everything) Yeshua stated the following;
“34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage: 35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage : 36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.” Luke 20:34-36. KJV.
Then after speaking about the tribulation, or “proving trial that will come upon the whole world” to His disciples He states in Luke 21:36. KJV.
“Watch ye therefore, and pray always , that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass , and to stand before the Son of man.”
This compiled with the plethora of other provided information, would then indicate that something specific would be occurring prior to the tribulation which would involve a resurrection of sorts. Those that will be accounted as being worthy, (re; Matthew 25:1-13. for just one of many examples) will then take part.
This resurrection would then also, (if one chooses to believe what Yeshua states in Luke 21:36.) occur prior to the first of the seals being opened. For He made no distinction whatsoever as to where there would be a break within His previous description of the tribulation to where this resurrection would take place. Therefore to “escape” must be referring to the whole of it, rather than to make the assumption that one would only be accounted worthy to “escape a portion of it”.
“10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.” Rev. 3:10. KJV.
Though the Greek word “Peirasmos” meaning a “proving trial” happens to be utilized rather than “Thlipsis” (which would have been translated into the English tribulation) the fact that this trial will “come upon all the world”, should allow for even the most recalcitrant to connect the proverbial dots.
Those that are accounted as being worthy for this event, will not experience any of the “proving trial”.
This 6th. seal premise is contrary to scripture.
” For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;” Romans 1:18.
“But unto them that are contentious , and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:” Romans 2:8-10
Paul doesn’t say, “Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from “SOME” wrath through him.” Romans 5:9. KJV.
“And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from “SOME” of the wrath to come.” 1 Thessalonians 1:10.
However Paul did say; “For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,” 1 Thessalonians 5:9.
Not some wrath. Not a wee tad of wrath. But all the wrath of God.
Scripture makes it quite plain that this wrath is, Gods vengeance on the unrighteous and the sons of disobedience. Not on those who cherish and love Him and His Son already.
As I have attempted to convey before, much of this confusion is derived from the word “elect” in Matthew 24:31 as being representative of the church there. And for those that continue to do so, have you never taken into consideration that the Greek word “eklektos” was well established as being defined as simply meaning “chosen” years and years prior to it ever being utilized within scripture? And that the definitions that are applicable today, were only created at that time? “Eklektos” means chosen, whether it be chosen for blessings, or for punishment.
When Yeshua comes with his angels it is the time of judgment.
“31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: Matthew 25:31,32.
“39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil ; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. 40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” Matthew 13:39-42.
Just my thoughts.
Be Blessed.
I haven’t got a clue as to why the number “8” above decided that it should be a smiley face with shades????
so what is the conclusion, in a concise statement?
and explain why the saints are mentioned into chapter 11
Already have in Rapture and the church in Philly.
Hi Marianne,
The answer is simply that, the church is a separate group that are removed from the earth and the saints that are mentioned are those great tribulation saints of that time period that will not have been walking with Christ prior to the event of the resurrection and catching away. These are that group mentioned in the following:
“Then one of the elders asked me, ‘These in white robes–who are they, and where did they come from?’ I answered, ‘Sir, you know.’ And he said, ‘These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.’ ” (Rev.7:9-17)
This is why I said that that there is a distinction between the use of the word “Ekklesia” translated “Church” used through chapter 1 through the very end of chapter 3 and then the word is never used again. After chapter 4 under the “What must take place later” part of revelation, the word “Hagios” translated “Saint” is the only word used to describe a believer from then on within the narrative, ergo, the word saints from chapter 4 on is used to describe the great tribulation saints and not the church, for the church is already gone by this time, which I believe is the meaning behind the abscense of the word “Ekklesia.”
Just to clarify for anyone who is interested, no matter what other translations there are, the fact remains that the word used is “Apostasia,” which cannot be changed which Strong’s renders as:
1) a falling away, defection, apostasy
Even if the word was rendered “departure” it could not be used in the positive sense. The only other time that this word is used is in Acts:21:21 which is rendered “Turning away” from the law of Moses. The word cannot be used in the positive sense as in departing up into the sky to meet the Lord in the air. The word just cannot be used in that manner. Even the root word “Apostasion” is rendered “Divorce or letter of divorcement.” Furthermore, any past translator who has interpreted this word as “Departure” in the sense of being caught up in the air is incorrect. Most of the translations are rendered “Falling away or revolt,” and I’m pretty positive that these people who are experts in Hebrew and Coin Greek and all from different backgrounds and different eras, those who spent hundreds or thousands of hours in collaboration would know the correct rendering of this word, which is why most translators render it “Falling away.” The KJV has it “Falling away” and the NiV has it “Rebellion.” Paul is simply interjecting some other detail of that time period, that is, there is going to be falling or turning away from the faith, which I believe is synonymous with the turning away from the faith as described in Mt.24:10.
We all appreciate your “personal” opinion Don.
However there are many Doctors & Scholars of linguistics being experts within the ancient Greek language, that would tend to disagree with you.
I will personally choose to differ to their collective knowledge, seeing that it would consist of, and have more substance than, the gleaning of a simple definition by the utilization of a lexicon.
The rationalization that you utilize above regarding definition, appears contradictory to a post that you made regarding the “One taken, one left” on the “Rapture and the church of Philadelphia” page, whereupon you made the suggestion that the applicable context of any given definition to specific words, would be derived from the surrounding content. I see no explicable reason for this to somehow change arbitrarily?
As you have stated above, The Greek noun “apostasia” is only used twice in the New Testament.
In addition to 2 Thessalonians 2:3, it occurs in Acts 21:21 where, speaking of Paul, it is said, “that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake (apostasia) Moses.” The word “apostasia” is a Greek compound of “apo” (from) and “istemi” (stand.) Thus, it has the core meaning of “away from” or “departure.”
Since you are utilizing the definition from the Strong’s lexicon, allow me to provide you and others, one from the “Liddell and Scott”, which defines apostasia first as “defection, revolt;” then secondly as “departure, disappearance.”
Therefore since the “verb” from which the noun apostasia is derived from supports the basic meaning of departure, there is little reason then to deny that the noun can mean such a spatial removal or departure.
The word itself simply has the core meaning of “departure” and it depends upon the context to determine whether it is used to mean “physical departure” or an “abstract departure” such as departure from the faith.
If one reads the passages of 2 Thessalonians 2, the context of the chapter makes reference to a physical “gathering together” (verse 1) and a physical removal of something, (verse 6,7). Therefore I don’t see it as being unreasonable to apply the definition to the word as meaning a physical departure. This would also explain why Paul would close with the following;
“13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore , brethren, stand fast , and hold the traditions which ye have been taught , whether by word, or our epistle. 16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, 17 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.”
We agree to disagree.
Alienated,
To try to make the word Apostasia or aphistēmi rendered as departing up into the air to meet Christ is to severly and I mean severly bend the word. The only type of departing that can be interpreted from aphistemi is to depart from a belief such as the law or the Christian faith as demonstrated in Acts 21:21. Furthermore, the burden of proof is on you or anyone else to make this word anything other than what it is. How is it that you can trust in Strong’s any other time, but not in this particular instance?
After you brought this up I went over every aspect of all three words, Apostasia, Apostasion and aphistemi and again I could not interpret them as a departing in the positive, but only in the negetive. The fact is, the word aphistemi is not the word that is being used, but the word Apostasia and Strong’s renders that as “Defection or revolt.” As for the doctors and scolars, the majority agree with the current interpretation of the word, which is a falling away or rebllion. In fact, the word “Falling” is the translation from Stong’s #646 Apostasia. It is imposible for the word Apostasia or Aphisemi to be rendered departed, as in being caught up in the air to meet Christ. You are of course free to believe what you will, but in all good conscience I cannot bend the word to fit that senario. The fact is that Paul, through the Holy Spirit, used the word Apostasia and of its definition, which is a “Falling away” there can be no question. You’re just arguing with Strong’s and the rest of the bible translators now on this issue. For all I have to do is refer anyone who is reading this to look up the word Apostasia and they will see the definition of it according to Strongs. By the way, the Lexicon is also in agreement with this word in its current rendering. As I said before, I would love to be able to render this word as “Departing,” as in being caught up, but in all conscience I cannot force the word to mean that. So you are correct, we agree to disagree.
Yes we agree to disagree.
That is fine with me.
However, below are just a few who do agree, and some of their relevant work.
Henry George Liddell and Henry Scott, A Greek-English Lexicon, Revised with a Supplement [1968] by Sir Henry Stuart Jones and Roderick McKenzie (Oxford, Eng.: Oxford University Press, 1940), p. 218.
Gordon R. Lewis, “Biblical Evidence for Pretribulationism,” Bibliotheca Sacra (vol. 125, no. 499; July 1968), p. 218.
Daniel K. Davey, “The ‘Apostesia’ of II Thessalonians 2:3,” Th.M. thesis, Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary, May 1982, p. 27.
Paul Lee Tan, The Interpretation of Prophecy (Winona Lake, IN: Assurance Publishers, 1974), p. 341.
H. Wayne House, “Apostasia in 2 Thessalonians 2:3: Apostasy or Rapture?” in Thomas Ice and Timothy Demy, eds., When the Trumpet Sounds: Today’s Foremost Authorities Speak Out on End-Time Controversies (Eugene, OR: Harvest House, 1995), p. 270.
Gordon R. Lewis & Bruce A. Demarest, Integrative Theology 3 vols in 1 (Grand Rapids: Zondervan, 1996), vol. 3, p. 420.
E. Schuyler English, Re-Thinking the Rapture (Neptune, NJ: Loizeaux Brothers, 1954), p. 70.
Allan A. MacRae, Letter to E. Schuyler English, published in “Let the Prophets Speak,” Our Hope, (vol. LVI, num. 12; June 1950), p. 725.
Kenneth S. Wuest, Letter to E. Schuyler English, published in “Let the Prophets Speak,” Our Hope, (vol. LVI, num. 12; June 1950), p. 731.
I think this discussion is getting too technical….. 🙂
It is the spirit, not the letter…..
God bless you both for your zeal.
Hi Marianne,
Thanks for the blessings.
yehi ratzon milfanekha Adonai Eloheynu velohey avotehnu shetechadesh aleynu codesh tov, baadoneynu Yeshua hamashiach, amen.
“May it be Your will, LORD our God and God of our fathers, that you renew for us a good month in the Lord Yeshua the Messiah. Amen.
Be Blessed
Please listen to YHVH…not man. Rapture Theory 1 – 5
Hello all.
something of interest to ponder. It should put some of the pieces together for you with regard to end times!
Hello all again
This video is even more disturbing. I only made it through part 3. If you want to see the deception, this is it. Note the way they twist the Word of God, and blaspheme.
Marianne said:
‘ I have to see how the 7th seals finalizes the redemption of Israel.’
but then who are those in Rev 11?’
Consider that Rev. 11:13 is the finalizing of the restoration (redemption) of Israel….. in response to the 3 1/2 year preaching/prophecying of forerunner Elias (and Moses) . (Matt 17:11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things. :12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. ) Recognizing witness Elias in position of forerunner (pre-Second Coming) is crucial to seeing the time table of events.
‘Shall come and restore’ is Elias before Second Coming. ‘Is come already’ is John the Baptist in spirit and power of Elias at First Coming.
. In both instances they perform the designated God ordained task under supernatural protection of ‘wilderness’…meaning they cannot be harmed until the task is complete (Isa 40.3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness).
And in both instances the message is the same ‘Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.’ In both instances they announce the impending arrival of Messiah. In both cases the Coming of Christ soon follows.
Most importantly in the time table of Revelations is that it is not in chronological order of events. The visions/events run back and forth along a continuum of things which are, was, and is to come…so to speak.
As my husband says, ‘Everybody has an opinion. They are a dime a dozen.’ And I’ve shared mine…lol.
To ‘escape’ …’be kept from’…doesn’t necessarily mean one misses or does not experience a dangerous or horrific event. Daniel spent the night in the den of lions but was kept from or escaped the lions. Dan 6:22. The three hebrew children were thrown into the fiery furnace yet escaped…and/or were kept from destruction by fire. Dan 3:27. And had Abraham drove the dagger through Isaac’s heart and set him on fire, Isaac would have been ‘kept from’ or ‘escaped’ death by way of resurrection since God had promised seed from Isaac. Likewise, the words ‘keep thee from the hour of temptation’ is another way of reminding us of the ultimate safety found in God…and doesn’t necessarily mean we will not encounter dangers, persecution, even martyrdom. Ask the apostles. Ask Steven. Ask the Christians in China. Trials, tribulations, pesecution, and matrydom are promised the saints of God. It’s in ‘the hour of temptation’ where God’s greatest sustanence is revealed.
IE
Amen, I just read the Martydom of Polycarp, A good read regarding this topic. God bless
The BLT Marxist, and his CFR government has allowed these past two years for Iran to stregthen their little terrorist friends surronding Israel. I suspect a regional war after Israel destroys Hizboallah, and Hamas.
To me the Gog, MaGog war happens after Israel wins the regional war, and sits in peace. Moon god worshipers hate Israel being at peace, and defeating the warriors for the god of the Kabba.
We are watching the Global Government attack Libya. First, they allowed the Muslim brotherhood to slip into Egypt, now Libya. Perhaps, Syria is next. What is the agenda? A regional Arab economic union with one coin?
Whatever the agenda the CFR has it will not be good for America, and Israel.
All of this paragraphs are included in the Fatima Message.
Thanks for sharing .
And no it is not yet the end of the world but a long battle against the force of darkness between man and demons .The coming of the Lord will not be for at least 400 years but it will be the separation of the wheat from the weeds .Only the very strong and the very good (kind, loving ,obedient ,humble) will survive .all others will be engulfed in flames, and nothing of them except ashes will remain .Only one third will survive.
Hello atruebeliever,
First I would venture to ask where you got the idea that it will be 400 years before the coming of the Lord? I have to point out that the United states has only been in existance for 235 years and I doubt very much that it nor the rest of the nations will go on for that length of time taking into consideration the current state of the world. There is no way that the world in its current state could go on for another 400 years. The very reason that the world has gotten to the this point is for the revealing of that beast, the man of lawlessness who will present a false peace, then comes sudden destruction. No! The current state of the world is leading us right into the long prophecied day of the Lord and we are at the very door.
Thank you Marianne.. for your article. 🙂
I know of the Battle of Armageddon and the Battle of Gog and Magog as separate events as clearly shown in Revelation. But it didn’t cross my mind on the Battle of Jehoshaphat.. till now. 🙂
Granted everytime the story of the End Times is expounded, it brings about not only agreement but also disagreements.
Let the Holy Spirit within us continue to guide us in His Truth..
Matthew 13:52
He said to them, “Therefore every teacher of the law who has been instructed about the kingdom of heaven is like the owner of a house who brings out of his storeroom new treasures as well as old.”
PEACE to all my brethren.
hello Boo
I think the same enemies of Israel will be at each battle, but I have distinguished the battles by the circumstances, and timing.
We are always learning something new each time we study.
it is a blessing
Peace to you also.
“Islam in the end times” by ELLIS H. SKOLFIELD
I would suggest for all interested in this topic, this book will give new insight into the whole matter, find this book on the web and read it.
I cant remember where I got it, but a little finger work should reward you.
This is Hal Lindsey’s take on the fallen angels. History channel also had a program on ancient “aliens”, if you watch it and see it in light of fallen angels, you will see how ALL the false religions are tied together, with a broader understanding of the fallen angels.
Re- end times 400 years. I got an email from a sear who has been able to decode the revelation .All the information that I saw in the email made a lot of sense to me because I know it to be true ,you are right about the world not going on for 400 years that is for many but for one third who will escape the Great tremor will go on until Christ returns .You have to go back and read again ,it written in the scriptures in revelation of the TRIBULATION . We have not gone through that yet .Yes we are having a very difficult time at present but we are not there yet .Another sign is the Muslims invasion .i, e, where all the Christians / Catholic’s/ Jews and everyone who does not believe in God will be killed . Until that time happens : you can be sure that Christ will not return.The Muslim war will be a devastation against the world for they are many and do not care to die ,this war drags for 400 years ,but we are told that they can be killed only in the EQUATOR .so you may want to make a note of this and pass it to your future children.
Hello atrubeliever,
Um, regarding your seer, I believe that decoding the book of Revelation is what everyone is doing by studying it. What I meant in regards to 400 years is that, I believe that the entire event of the day of the Lord will be taking place very shortly. In fact, I believe that 400 years from now, the world will already have already been living well into the millennial kingdom under the reign of Christ, but of course that is just my opionion based on where we technologically, as well the current state of the world. Regarding “going back and reading it” I never leave, as I am always camped out in the book of Revelation. What do you mean by “one third will escape the great tremor?” As the Scriptures make clear, there will be very few people left alive here on earth by the time Jesus returns at the end of the age. With just the 4th seal and the 6th Trumpet 50% of the earth’s population will have been killed. Add to that the fatalities that will be caused by the 1st, 2nd and 3rd trumpets, the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 7th bowl judgment and there will probably only be a couple hundred million left on earth out of 6.5 billion. To this day, all people who have tried to calculate the time of Jesus’ return have failed. Case in point is Harold Camping and he will be let down again when October 21, 2011 roles around. People need to take God at his word when he says, “No man knows the day or the hour,” but they keep trying. at one time, the Jehovah’s Witnesses set date after date for Jesus return and then when those dates never panned out, they circumvented the word of God and declared that he had returned in 1914 as an invisible spirit creature and is currently ruling from the watchtower Bible Tract Society. Some much for “Every eye shall see him” as well as, “He shall rule with an iron scepter.” We as believers can know when the time is getting close by what is written and what is taking place in the world, but we can not know the day or the hour and therefore, there is no magic formula to establish the time of his arrival.
In regards to Muslims waging war for 400 years, I do not believe that this will take place, as there is no Scripture to support this. Also, you have to remember that the man of lawlessness, that beast, is going to be coming onto the stage of human history and the word of God says that all inhabitants on the face of the whole earth will worship this ruler, with the exception of the great tribulation saints. whose names were written in the book of life before the world began.
In regards to muslims being killed only at the equator, I’m pretty sure that they can be killed anywhere on the planet earth. Why would you think that they could only be killed at the equator?
O hi Marianne read your post land like you I do not agree with your calculations as well because I know for sure that Jesus return will not happen before the second rise of the death There are 2 resurrections .the first are the saints , which will govern the Earth with a rod of iron the second is everyone both good and evil.so you see none of this has happen yet ,as for the Muslims not being mentioned in the scriptures,Look again .The Ant- Christ is the a Muslim and the Beast is Satan .The Scriptures warn us about seeing and not seeing , perceiving but not understanding .The scriptures are not to be understood as they are read .they speak in parables and riddles .If you take the bible word as it is then you live in a blind world .I give you an example .When the Lord refers to Israel ,he is not talking about the city of Israel .He is talking about His church ( CATHOLIC CHURCH) Another example a tree .It does not mean a tree it mean a person ,sanctuary of God it means man’s hearth the dwelling place of God .I know that you will not agree with me in this neither will many priests but the fact remains : That this is the truth!
interesting how many different interpretations can arise.
I guess we will all have to wait and see how this all turns out. 🙂
The Beast System
http://www.mediafire.com/?jyik1xd4091
http://www.mediafire.com/?t9y3jjm1pwt
Antichrist Documented
http://www.mediafire.com/?g0y2xw4nscm
Again if we read through Revelation 19:11-21, then Revelation 20:1-15.. it is clear that there is at least 2 SEPARATE BATTLES..
BATTLE 01 where “flesh of kings, generals, and mighty men, of horses and their riders” are eaten (Rev 19:18).. same kings gathered for BATTLE of ARMAGEDDON (Rev 16:16).. which is at the 6th Bowl/Vial Judgment. >> SAME “flesh of mighty men” will be eaten in Ezekiel 39:18.
With the occurence of the “sun turned black”.. “whole moon turned red”.. “stars in the sky fell to earth”.. all from the 6th Seal Judgment (Rev 6:12)… PLUS with the reference of the “sun.. darkened”, “moon.. not give its light”, “stars.. fall from the sky” in Matthew 24:16.. IT OCCURS ONLY AFTER THE DISTRESS OF THOSE DAYS or what is also described as TRIBULATION !!
THUS, BATTLE 01 MUST BE “after” or during the TRIBULATION in the midst of the Judgments (7 Seals, 7 Trumpets, 7 Bowls/Vials)
BATTLE 02 where “the nations.. gather.. for battle..” but are killed by “fire from heaven” (Rev 20:7-9) .. BATTLE of GOG & MAGOG (Rev 20:8) is surely after the 1000 years of Christ’ Reign. (Rev 20:6-7)
PERHAPS a footnote that Ezekiel’s Prophecy Against Gog of the land of Magog (Eze 38, 39) is not necessarily a direct reference to the BATTLE of GOG & MAGOG at the end of the Millenial Kingdom in Rev 20:7-10.
So where does that leave us with BATTLE of JEHOSHAPHAT.. I shall examine further the Scriptures 🙂
hi Boo
I think gog and magog are involved in all the end time wars. they are not finally destroyed until after the millenium.
god bless you.
Hi Boo soon Yew,
In regards to Rev.16:12-16 and Rev.19:11-21 being two separate battles, I would have to disagree, as they are the very same event. Rev.16:13-14 is the annoucement of the spirits of demons going throughout the earth to “gather together” the kings and their armies for battle at Har-Megiddo, where Rev.19:11-21 is John’s vision of the “actual event” taking place after those kings, their armies, horses and riders will have been brought there and killed by the double-edged sword that will come out of the mouth of the rider on the horse. What follows the announcement of the gathering is the pouring out of the 7th bowl and then the event of Rev.19:11-21 actually takes place. Chapters 17 and 18 are a discription of the woman and the beast and destruction of Mystery Babylon, which will have taken place earlier as described below in Rev.14:8:
“A second angel followed and said, ‘Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great, which made all the natioins drink the maddening wine of her adulteries.”
The method of description of this is simular to Rev.12:1-6 being a summarization, where Rev.12:7-17 is the detail. As an example, Rev.12:4 states that the dragon sweeps a third of the stars (fallen angels) out of the sky which is the summary and Rev.12:7-9 is the detail which identifies who the stars represent, which are Satan’s angels being flung to the earth. and that because of the war in heaven.
In the same way, the information regarding the “Woman” in Rev.12:6 is a summary which states that the woman will be cared for out in the desert for 1260 days (3 1/2 years), where Rev.12:13-16 are the details regarding the woman fleeing from the dragon and being cared for out in the desert listed as a time, times and half a time, which is a different way of saying 3 1/2 years.
And just as a side note, for those who have claimed that Jesus makes multiple trips to the earth during this time of wrath, specifically at the 6th seal, the insertion that he makes at the 6th bowl would show that to be false, for he says:
“Behold, I come like a thief! Blessed is he who stays away and keeps his clothes with him, so that he may not go naked and be shamefully exposed.” (Rev.16:15)
The verse above would show that at the time that the 6th bowl judgment takes place that Jesus will not yet have returned to the earth and the verse would in fact make no sense if he had previously been here and that because Jesus here is interrupting the narrative to tell the readers and to warn the great tribulation saints to keep their faith because his arrival is imminent at that point.
I hope that you find this helpful
Yours in Christ
Hi dmcal52,
Thanks for your reply and your further exposition on the other aspects of Revelation.
ACTUALLY, on second reading of my comments above you will see that I DO AGREE that the Battle of Rev 16:12-16 and Rev 19:11-21 ARE THE SAME !!
The separate Battle would be the one at the end of the Millenial Kingdom in Rev 20:7-10.
Perhaps Marianne might want to change the font of the comments.. there are pretty small.. and small details can be missed !! 🙂
AS I also agree that our Lord’s Coming is surely AFTER the 6th Bowl or even the 7th Bowl.. basically at the END of the TRIBULATION.
I haven’t yet encountered teachings that describe these multiple trips that Jesus make.
PEACE to you my friend.. ειρήνη (eirene) 😀
hi Boo
I have checked and I cannot change the font on the page.
However, if you click Cntrl + . it will enlarge the text on the entire page, so you can read it better.
If you do this multiple times, the type gets bigger and bigger.
be blessed!
Hi Boo Soon Yew,
My bad! It looked like you were making both Rev 16:12-16 and Rev 19:11-21 into two separate battles and I was just pointing out that one was the gathering and the other is John’s vision of the the actual event taking place after they will have been gathered togther. In regards to the event that takes place at the end of the millennium as listed in Rev.20:7-10, I don’t think that we could really call this a battle, could we? If it is, it is a very one-sided battle and short, since God Himself will be raining down fire and sulfur upon those who are rebelling against Him. Still, it is pretty sad that after a thousand years of peace on the earth and with no temptations from Satan and the powers of darkness during that time and yet man still rebels against God at the very end. You’d think that those who will be rebelling at that time would have picked up a bible and read what happened to the people at the battle of Armegeddon. Go figure!
Yours in Christ
Hi dmcal 🙂
Indeed the “Battle” at the end of the Kingdom is one-sided !!
As to how people can still be swayed.. we must not underestimate what Satan can do.. Plus it’s 1000 years !!!!
Change in culture, age and ideas would influence the mind of men (and women). Don’t forget the free-will of man is still at work in the earthly body.. all originating from the original trespass in the Garden of Eden by Eve and Adam.
In Him,
Boo
Joel – the book we are to pass on to every generation
End Time 1-8
Hi Carolyn,
Your direction to all of these Youtube websites is a good example of having “Itching ears” (2 Tim.4:3-4). We should base the truth of God’s word on our studies directly from his word, so why would we go to all of these websites to get the answer when we ourselves have God’s word? By your directing everyone to these websites, it would tell me that you personally don’t have anything to say in regards to any of these subjects from your own studies, but instead rely upon these websites to gain understanding.
I would suggest doing your studies of God’s word, becasue there are many false teachers and false teachings today and the only way to know the truth of God’s word is to study it for yourself, otherwise it is very easy to be deceived, being blown in every direction by every wind of doctrine. For example, you may come across Hank hennigraff’s website and then adopt the teaching that the book of Revelation falls under the banner of hyperbole, that is, that it is exagerated and not ment to be taken literally. Or you may stumble across a website or book by Bruce R. Booker called “The problem with Paul” and adopt the belief that Paul was a false apostle and a liar and that none of what he wrote was inspired by the Holy Spirit. These are the kinds of teaching’s that are going on in the world today and both views are eternal life threatening for those who believe it.
I hope that you will receive this in the manner that it is meant and that is just as some friendly advice to seek God’s word and not the writings of men.
Yours in Christ
These videos are from http://www.shepherdschapel.com. I have been studing with Shepherd’s Chapel for 5 years and hope you will watch these videos.
The Kenites of Jesus’ day did not believe in Paul either.
The Kenites were those who were sitting in the seat of Moses. These sermons explain things much better than I can. I am not a teacher.
Guday Carolyn and all,
I meant no disrespect, I am just tired of all the false teachers and the false teachings that have come about and continue to grow in these last days. It is good for you to listen to those teachings just as long as you are reading God’s word yourself and comparing it to what they are teaching. The word of God should always be the basis for all truth. Now, regarding Paul, there is a very good Scripture for those who feel that Paul was a false apostle and that his letters were not inspired by the Holy Spirit, as though God was looking ahead in anticipation of this, he said:
“Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other scritpures, to their own destruction.” (2 Pet.3:14-16)
In the verse above, notice that first Peter states that “Paul also wrote with the wisdom that God gave him,” vindicating that Paul’s writings were from God. Then he refers to those who distort Paul’s writings as ignorant and unstable men. Furthermore, Peter refers to Paul’s letters as Scripture, then he says that, by distorting what Paul wrote, they do so to their own destruction. What was true then, is true now, those who are teaching against Paul do so to their own destruction! These are not the words of Paul, but he wrote as he was moved by the Holy Spirit and by the revelations and visions that he was shown.
——————————————————————————–
I, THE LORD, DESIRE THIS UNITY
THE ADVOCATE
December 20, 1988
Lord?
I am!
Oh God. 1
Vassula, embrace My Cross! share It with Me; My Cross will lead you into My Domain, reside in My Sacred Heart, creep into Its depths and you will find Peace;
My child, pray for your brothers that have abandoned Me and are only captivated by the worldly riches, pray for those lost souls who fear My Cross … pray, My child, for My Church to unite and be one; every priest has to understand that I, the Lord, desire this Unity; any division does not come from Me, it comes from My adversary; My Kingdom should be One and Holy;
Lord?
I am;
Lord, the few Greek Orthodox priests who read a few pages in Your revelation that You are giving me, do not agree about unity. As soon as they read that it’s about uniting with the Pope, they become allergic and say this revelation is devilish.
One lady, Greek Orthodox, after reading this revelation, with good-will went to a Catholic Church. When her confessor heard this, he condemned the revelation as coming from Satan, then excommunicated her! He did not want to hear of unity! But many Greek Orthodox laymen are willing because when they read Your revelation they understand, and they know You desire it, but the Greek Orthodox priests get infuriated!
do I not know all this, My child? My thoughts are not their thoughts, My ways are not their ways, they are burdening Me with their sins and they do not see clear anymore … Unity shall come from above, for now as it is, you are divided altogether and do not live according to My Divine Image; you are not obeying My Law; your division is contaminating and is spreading, your division will always remain; unless I put an end to it, it shall not be overcome;
how could you believe you can unite since love is missing among you? many of you are inflexible and stiff like iron rods! but I shall bend you all, I will unite you! I shall turn this wilderness into a lake and the dry ground into a waterspring, then, I shall place you all in this New Earth, beloved ones, and My Kingdom on earth shall be as it is in Heaven; My Kingdom shall come; oh! how I long now for this New Era! you will live all in perfect unity under My Holy Name, and I, who am the Supreme Source of Life, shall regenerate you all into one Holy People; from above My Divine Image shall reflect on you, like a mirror, and you will understand that I, the Holy of Holies, restored you once again;
Scriptures are being fulfilled; Wisdom shall not wait; She will cultivate My people like a ploughman and a sower; She will cultivate the earth’s aridity into fields; I will till her and yield her fields into fields of Peace and Love; I am the Light of this world and I will always descend to you whenever I see you covered in obscurity;
Lord, there are some ministers who refuse to hear or believe that You can manifest Yourself like this, through me. They say that You, Jesus, have brought us all The Truth and they need nothing else but the Holy Bible. In other words, all these works are false.
I have said to you all that the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My Name, will teach you everything and remind you of all I have said to you; I am not giving you any new doctrine, I am only reminding you of The Truth and leading those who wandered astray, back to the complete Truth;
I, the Lord, will keep stirring you up with Reminders and My Holy Spirit, the Advocate, will always be among you as the Reminder of My Word; so do not be astonished when My Holy Spirit speaks to you; these reminders are given by My Grace to convert you and to remind you of My Ways;
come; smile at Me when you see Me, flower;
Ah Lord! Blessed be Your Name. Thank You for Your teachings.
Wisdom will instruct you, child; we, us?
Forever and ever!
——————————————————————————–
1 Jesus answered “I am” with such fervour and Love!
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Uniting earthly Churches together as if they are one when there is either heresy or apostacy as their sins they choose to ignore and keep is not right indeed.
I had two dreams many years ago about this very thing and in the first I was in this big church and found these dead bodies that were kept in the church without removing them and burying them and I was very disturbed and brought my husband to see it and asked why they were kept and he said they were kept because they did not want to remove them but what they had done was wrong and they should have been buried long ago. I wakened.
Two weeks later I had a second dream and in this dream I saw the Churches gardens that were begun to be ploughed up and I saw bits of vegetables and roots that were good though most of it was bad and then I saw fruiting trees that had much wizened and ruined fruits, but, still there were a few fruits that were yet good even though they were but few and I said ‘Oh no there is still some good fruits and vegetables, can not this all be saved?’ When I said that the Lord came to me nd stood by me and said ‘No, this cannot be saved. The fruit of it all is mostly bad and it must be ploughed up.’
There is so much more to all of this I know but when I see the uniting of the churches even with Islam etc, I know that there are things that seem right to man and for a little love of what seems a good idea, we might accept even just a little bit of something good even if the whole is become bad. The great falling away over these 1500 years of the worldly church is coming to its fullness and it is to the ndividual children of the Lord He watches over that we must look to as the Church of God, that are in many different churches and follow Him as Christ attended His own of His day when He was on earth. These of Israel and of the Gentiles that truly love and follow Him with all their hearts is the that is in Christ Jesus and not in the earthly Churches or mixes with other religions is what shows His Love and not the following of the Unity and Unifying movements that are at work in the world in Chrislam, Papal Catholicism etc. Our great Love for Him should not show a love for heresy or apostacy, it should show a separation of these things that are not well pleasing to the Lord or breaks His Commandments.
Just like two wrongs don’t make a right, so, combining two false doctrines does not bring about unity before Yahshua!
DEO Favente Perennis, Annuit Coeptis. VRVCh ALHIM MRChPhTh AaL PhNI HMIM. GDL AVL 37
Hi Marianne and all,
Just a couple of things: First, the 6th seal is not a war. No where in the annoucement of the 6th seal is the war even mentioned. The 6th seal includes the following events:
1. A great earthquake occurs
2. Sun and moon darkened and the stars (asteroids/meters) fall to earth.
3. The sky rolls up revealing God sitting on his throne
4. Mountains and islands are moved out of their positions (earthquake).
5. Kings, generals, the rich, the mighty and everyone else hide in caves
6. John announces that the great day of wrath has come
The 2nd seal/red horse is where peace is taken from the whole earth representing world-wide war. But there is no mention of war here in the 6th seal and nothing to tie in the war of Jehosaphat with the 6th seal.
Secondly, the 6th bowl judgment is the gathering of the kings of the earth to the valley of Megiddo to prepare them and their armies for battle, but is not the time of the actual battle itself. After they are gathered together, then the battle takes place sometime after the 7th bowl judgment is poured out, which is when Jesus returns to usher in the end of the age, which is described beginning in Rev.19:11-21. This is when the beast and the false prophet are taken and thrown alive into the lake of fire. The rest of them that were gathered, which also includes those of the “One taken” group by the angels are all killed by the double-edged sword, which represents the word of God. Their spirits go into Hades and the birds, which are gathered together in Rev.19:17-18, will gorge themselves on the flesh of their dead bodies. This is the event that Jesus was pointing to when he said: “One will be taken and one left.” and the disciples said, “Where Lord?” and Jesus replied, “Wherever there is a dead body there will the vultures gather.”
hi don
I know from revelation what you say. What is not known what else is happening that is not mentioned.
If I am wrong, then the sun turns dark, and the moon turns red, and the stars fall from the sky, and the earth shakes more than once during the end times, because there is a battle predicted when this occurs.
There’s a time like this between 2014 and 2015 on Passover and Sukkot lunar eclipses, then a solar eclipse on Jewish New Year, then moons again on Passover and sukkot 2015.
Preparations being made for attack against Jerusalem…..Battle of Jehosaphat.
http://www.onejerusalem.org/2012/02/land-assault-on-jerusalem-1.php
BEND! BEND TO BE ABLE TO UNITE
October 30, 1987
I have given My creation innumerable signs warning them; I raised up saints declaring My desires but have they1 listened? has anything changed?
Lord, suppose they do this time, suppose they are willing, suppose they read and believe and unite and seek to glorify You rather than seek their own interests this time, had they believed in this message.
Vassula, ah Vassula, many would fear, even those who would believe in My Message and admit that it is I, through fear of being mocked upon and fear of their superiors; many would put honour from men before the honour that comes from Me; honour Me and diffuse My message;
Suppose, Lord, they do bend.
I would uplift My Justice then that lies heavily upon them; but they still hurl venomous arrows at one another, afflicting My Body; there will always be disharmony reigning among them because love is missing;
Vassula, had they followed My command to love one another as much as I love them and humble themselves, My Body today would reign in harmony; have they ever humbled themselves washing each others feet, 2 have I not given you this as an example so that you may copy what I have done? bend! bend to be able to unite!
soul, the time has come where My beloved servant John Paul should hear Me; I have indeed heard his cries, his cries have reached Heaven, his cries resound in the entire universe, his cries have reached My Ears!
let Me tell you: in a short time there will be one flock and one shepherd; I will lead all My sheep, even those that are not of this fold; Love will unite you, but before this, there will be tremendous tribulations, the entire Heavens will shake! be vigilant, daughter; hand over My instructions, they are all within My sacred writings; by forwarding3 My Message you will understand;
Jesus, oh St. Mary, what will they say? Understand me St Mary, it is not in my position to face all those superior people.
Vassula, do not fear; your incapacity infatuates Jesus; stay small;
St. Mary, suppose they didn’t listen?
little one, this divine revelation will be His last warning; if they do not want to listen or understand I will allow His Hand to fall on them and strike them; Vassula, all you have to do is love Him; be vigilant because Satan is furious and will try all sorts of traps; do not fear, I am guarding you;
Thank you St. Mary for encouraging me. Thank You for guarding me. I bless You.
Vassula, I bless you, child;
1 The creatures.
2 I had the impression here that Jesus meant that this gesture should be done from one church to the other.
3 Making it known.
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Eze 38:12
To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places [that are now] inhabited, and upon the people [that are] gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land.
Previously there has not been much reason, at least monetarily, to invade Israel. It has more to do with the ongoing hate for the Jewish people. But all of that is changing dramatically. A company named Zion Oil is working to extract large volumes of oil that are exceptionally deep in Israel, which includes the Valley of Meggido where much of the oil is found. On top of that they have found a huge deposit of natrual gas, which Israel is currently importing 100% of their natural gas needs. It is the largest discovery of natural gas anywhere in the world, in the last ten years. This would not only make Israel free of importing natural gas, but would make them an exporter of natural gas. It makes the term in Ezekiel “To take a spoil” more timely!!
good information.
about the oil and gas
What is the Philadelphia church? Also, Margaret MacDonald is the ‘inventor’ of the ‘rapture’ in the 1820’s. I prefer the Second Coming, but why do so many use the rapture connotation? Is it because they are members of the Philadelphia church? just curious….
Hi Patience,
The PHiladelphia church along with Smyrna are the only two churches in the book of Revelation that the Lord had no rebuke or condemnation for. Also, Margaret MacDonald is not the originator of the word “Rapture,” but comes from the Latin “Raptus” if I remember correctly. The reference to the “second coming” which is also not found in Scripture, is in reference to the Lord’s physical, visual return to the earth to bring about the end of the age and to usher in his millennial kingdom. This event should not to be confused with the resurrection and catching away of the church, for they are two different events. I also prefer the original word used to describe what many call “the rapture” as the “Catching away,” which we get from the Greek word “Harpazo” which is defined as “Force suddenly exercise or a snatching away.” Furthermore, any individual believer can be like the church of Smyrna or Philadelphia by overcoming, that is, prevailing or getting the victory over the sinful nature.
Hope this helps
Yours in Christ
An interesting article from Joel Richardson about the current state of Turkey and Egypt.
http://www.wnd.com/2012/11/is-egypts-president-fulfilling-biblical-prophecy/
I agree with you…the kings are lining up, and america has had the dishonor of helping the kings of the north and south position themselves.
Marianne,
Ez. 38 has to be before the millenium because the chapters preceding it are talking about Ezekiel’s dry bones coming back to life, how the Jews are looking like a pile of dry bones but God brings them back to life and returns them to their own country, not for their sake but so that He can be glorified before the whole world, and the world will know that he is the one true God.
It seems to me the fig tree has budded, Ez. dry bones live, and we are about to see God do a work in Israel as described in Ez. 38 and 39.
After the battle, or earthquake, in chapter 40 they are told how to build a new temple, a temple where the prince is standing in the eastern gate by chapter 46, a temple where water runs through it, water and trees that are for the healing of the nations.
yes that is possible
Al.
Good article.
REv. 2:12-13 says that Satan’s seat is in Pergamos, akaTurkey, and where Satan dwells. I wouldn’t be surprised if Turkey heads up the Ez. 38 war.It says Rev. 17 the 10 kings only unite for 1 hour before they are overcome by the Lamb. That’s a good case for the Ez. battle and the Rev. 17 battle being the same event. They reach the hills of Israel, they cover the entire country like a blanket and then done in 1 hour, earthquake.
All of this just goes to show where the US is in relation to Israel. I believe the US, “as a nation,” will be in the forefront of trying to bring Israel down. So it is that America will play the part of Egypt and Rome-going from friend and ally to enemy and destroyer. The difference now is, Israel will not be destroyed this time, though they have been abandoned by their supposed friends. What we need to understand is that this is as much about us, being part of returning Ephraim, and not just the Jews. It is all part of Yah’s plan to reunite kol Yisrael; Jew and Gentile-One new man in Messiah!
The descriptive wars in Yeshiyahu, Yehezeqel, Zekaryah are the Gog wars. Which are at the end of recording history by man [ commonly known as end of (recording) time or end of (recording) days ], not the end of all creation or the world.
12/17/2013 Vision
He showed me 2 HUGE WARSHIPS on the water Heading to their destination at a very fast pace. POWERFUL STRONG READY FOR WAR HUGE!!!!! (larger than any actual warship) These words were said…
“THE 2 WITNESSES ARE ARRIVING” ————–
i woke from the vision and was happy! Glad to know they are on there way!! It means that Jesus is at the door! Yay! Yay! Yay!
I have been wondering who they would be–never guessing they would be shown to me as the MOST POWERFUL WAR SHIPS EQUIPT FOR WAR–VERY COOL. No faces-no origin- but they were POWERFUL!
These 2 witnesses have been born and called for this very reason-God has awoken them to God’s knowledge of his mysteries of heavenly things. I am sure that he has been training them greatly in spiritual warfare-teaching and showing them the dire realities of a godless world-evil governments and the darkened hearts of men-the pure corruption they have seen already and what happens when we as humans follow the principalities of darkness-Satan.
I bet they have gone hand to hand “spiritually” speaking with Satan and his legions on more than just one occasion. They know the spiritual truth!
Satan and his followers have known who these 2 witnesses were at birth and have been trying to kill them and destroy them ever since. The devil knew before they even knew. Amazing stuff here.
They have probably been training for a lifetime but they were unaware of it at the time. I believe that when God made his wake up call on them-showing them the truth of God’s existence as well as the devil’s existence-they were shocked-just as troubled as Daniel was with some of the visions God had revealed to him.
I believe God took the scales off the 2 witnesses eyes and they experienced much-remorse for a time. Hardly believing that they would be called-humble and unholy-sinful-untrained and possibly shocked by it all. God has been showing them-teaching them.
From what I just saw in my vision of these 2 witnesses as powerful ships–they have grown and had their lessons and they now have accepted this covenant with God and accepted their mission-wearing “Jesus’s robe of rightiousness” now. There is only one who is sinless and righteous and that is Jesus! We are only made righteous by HIS ROBE.
I can assume that they have passed their training with A+++ scores-their walk in the extreme fire has refined them like Gold-because those 2 ships were more powerful than any other ships I have ever seen.
I believe they have been sitting prayerfully waiting for God to call them out. I am thinking of the words. “Here AM I Lord! SEND ME!” Their spirits calling out for the Lord to rise up against their enemy-the devil-unleashed for a time on earth-the rumblings are great-waiting to war with the devil in Jesus name- as they wait on God to move.
I believe that the 2 witnesses only know each other by spirit at this time. God has intimately introduced them in spirit work and training and he has told them how they will meet and come together-manifesting in the world. They will know each other when they step out. 1st one and then quickly the second will come. God’s prophecy fulfillment.
Some have said that they are coming from a life of holiness…raised up to be HOLY MEN their whole lives but I don’t believe that is the truth. My spirit says no.
I believe that they have most likely walked the walk of a lowly servant in hardships-pain-physically -mentally-spiritually-rejection -abandonment-sin-and have experienced great trials and tribulations for many many years… everything painful that a man can experience in the world.
Jesus came into the world lowly-a baby born in a manger- and I believe these two witnesses will arrive in the very same manner-humbled and lowly servants of Jesus…filled with the power of prophets and of course-empowered by the majesty of our Almighty Lord Jesus Christ–because he is the ONLY ORIGIN OF TRUE MIRACLES! Facinating! Spectacular!
Yes-the 2 Witnesses called out of sin. Jesus did this often-using great sinners in the Bible-The human struggle with sin-great. They would surely not be able to relate or understand where or how to help men get spiritually ready for the Lord if they hadn’t.
How else would these 2 witnesses ever be able to understand the plight of others and be able to call out sin fairly and justly if they hadn’t walked the very same sinful walk at one time? They will be unique and not your “holier than thou” type. I will believe that those who truly are close to the Lord will know them because God will nod and whisper in their spirits.
I have seen many claiming to be “one of the endtime witnesses” and yes-out of curiosity I have watched and listened to them with spiritual eyes and ears. NOPE. Only one man that I hear has made me wonder about him-the profoundness of his words gives my spirit a chill-a resounding empowerment when I listen to his words-ALWAYS and say “wow…is he one? Profound!”
Some say it will be a man and a woman-I believe this to be true.
“The Adam & Eve dream team-fire breathers-last call callers.”
These 2 men have seen and experienced it all. They have been called out of their sin and taught how to “measure” because they are just 2 regular human beings on earth who have walked as sinners and now accepted the calling of becoming ‘martyred’ saints. Now endowed with the enlightenment of God–they will step out to pave the way and help others.
They have been taught about hate-they have received lessons of hate from so many. Evilness- lessons of the hearts of men. They have been repaid back bountiful evilness for their goodness that has dropped them to their knees. God is giving them lessons on how to deal with the hate by these lessons.
They will be the most hated men.So of course God would have to continually show them the hate in men’s hearts-they would never be able to stand for their calling if they hadn’t had a lifetime of abuse-evil-monsters and satans hateful penetration attempts to their hearts.
They have learned to love God-trust-wait and keep loving…even through all of the lies-slander-hate-malicious attacks upon body-character-even death threats. God has been teaching them much in the physical as well as the spiritual. He has already shown them the protection that he has placed over them-the covering-Angels-interventions so amazing that they are giddy. They are and have witnessed the spiritual truths of heaven and possible that they are called the 2 witnesses due to all of the revelation they receive from God.
They are called upon by God to call out the churches-7 churches of revelation-to get them prepped and ready and back to their 1st love-Jesus of Nazareth. God is always so good he gives “last call” and these two witnesses will be last call-callers.
They also know how to measure the “church” because they most undoubtedly went into the churches long ago speaking the truth of their spiritual experiences-and were seeking help- desperate and they were turned away by most-called demonic-crazy and rejected by the very ones who speak with the Holy Bible words but can not reach the understanding of the words in their hearts-these two witnesses were not recognized by the church-abandoned-scoffed at-rejected.
There love for God is immense and I believe that their love for men on earth is immense also. They are willing to go up against Satan and his folliwers down here to help them-knowing how they will die. That surely is a mighty love for people and their souls. Don’t cha think?
God has let them be in spirit very often so their fear is gone when it comes to physical death-they are aware of heavenly things so profound and amazing that they understand that as long as they keep their eyes focused on Jesus…they fear them not!
The only thing that has made them any different from those down here? They were chosen by God for this mission. We do not have God’s mind-but God knows these 2 intimately. He chose them because HE KNOWS WHAT WE DON’T KNOW. His ways are not our ways. Some of the “holier than thou” out their may object to that statement above but I will not retract it.
I believe they truly understand what sin is and where it takes you-hell-once the Lord called them out and opened their eyes to the truth.
I feel Jesus telling me that he will move the SPIRIT & POWER over them-amazing Biblical prophets of old-they will be filled with the spirit of these two men.
It will be like a MIGHTY great gust of wind when it happens–God the Father moving over them…kind of like blowing their sox off their feet and replacing them with -golden fiery slippers of heaven! Hehehe
“Men on fire! & The odds are always FOR them”
They will NOT FAIL because God has empowered them with the ability to bring and perform miracles and “bring down the house” so to speak. Anybody who seeks to harm them or kill them or come up against them will die the very way they plot. No gun control on them ha!
Since I know the Bible stories are true from my own personal experiences-I can fully understand this and accept this in my mind. EXCITING STUFF GOING TO HAPPEN!
What I am very clear on! JESUS OF NAZARETH IS ALIVE. PROPHECY BEING FULFILLED BEFORE MY VERY EYES! Very exciting time for us to be chosen to see the return of Lord from the skies! Repent and turn from sin Call upon Jesus to be saved. 2 Witnesses arriving soon means tribulation is starting…huge catastrophic earthquakes coming and 7th seal broken… JESUS LOVES ALL PLEASE CALL UPON HIM HE WILL SAVE YOU! PROMISE HE WILL!
Shalom
dear joan
how do you know these are men born into this generation?
many believe that they are returning saints from heaven…such as Moses, Elijah or Paul the apostle.
I do share your enthusiasm.
Hello 🙂
How do I know they were born into this generation? Yeshua tells me & then shows me in the Bible. The “annointed ones” are here and as soon as the peace treaty is signed…GREAT EARTHQUAKE(6th & 7th seal will come in quick succession ) The 2 witnesses will step out. First the woman and then the man.
No….not what MANY “think” because many think many confusing things. God never changes. Just as you see a repetitive theme of God’s never changing works in the Bible ie; the Golden cup throughout the bible….ends with the Golden cup being poured out.. Always a “Messiah type & Bride type” (Esther & King)….
It will be the VERY SAME WAY THAT GOD is CONSTANT in the Bible.
These two witnesses (Adam & Eve type) will have the spirit of PROPHETS of old come over them just as the annointing of MANY prophets in the Bible had happen. For those that have spiritual wisdom..
NOT LITERAL!
When these Prophets arrive there will be no doubts to who they are. They will come with miracles of Hashem and will continue doing miracles of Hashem.
Doctrines are very messy down here and they should not be.
ONE GOD-YESHUA-BIBLE=simplicity to understand if you have the heart of a child.
Have a VERY BLESSED DAY!
77,
I agree with most of your post. But, I think there will be teams of 2 witnesses worldwide.
Blessings
Psalm 27
What we “think” as imperfect human beings is much different than hearing Yeshua and what he says. Yeshua trumps any pastor..minister…Bible teacher or the zillions of iffy-unsound-wormwoody false doctrines down here.
When Yeshua says 2 witnesses. One man & one woman as the last call callers…nobody down here can change my mind. LOL
I’m not sure where you get the one women with the one man as the two witnesses, but I agree it will be just two individuals.
If one of the individual witnesses looks like you, I’m cool with it.
Yeshua speaks to me and shows me in the Bible. simple!
The Lord looks at what is in our hearts…outside packaging means nothing to the Lord Jesus nor should it matter to you what packaging the two witnesses come in as long as you understand and accept the TRUTH of what they are telling you. That is THE MOST IMPORTANT !
😉
Sorry, I wasn’t trying to upset you. Have you been in any Conan movies?
No dearheart.. you did not upset me. 🙂
That was just a little golden nugget to take with you!
Conan?
No.But I sure did like the story of David taking out the giant with the power of God and that little-bity “ROCK.” hehehe
Now THOSE are the things I Love!
hey i wish to correct somethings the way i understand the person muslims are calling mahdi is in the bible isaiah 19;20,daniel 7;13 dont mistake with daniel 7;9 which talks about jesus, revelation 12 the woman gave birth to a son who will rule the nations with an iron rod and he was taken to GOD and his throne .for old testament read the torah because the western bibles have been changed nice time i hope i helped clear the confusion
ok