Bible Answers for Martin Sheen

 

west wing

Martin Sheen, an actor, playing the role of a President in the TV show “West Wing,” is not an expert in psychology, or biblical studies…but challenges a “defenseless, weak Christian,” showing his “power” as a “knowledgeable skeptic.”

Credit for bring this up:

Lyndsey

To Mr. Sheen and his producers:

As Jesus would say, “you err because you do not know the scriptures.”

If you understand the meaning of the scriptures you try to refer to, you would appreciate the truth of them, instead of misquoting them, and mocking them in ignorance.

But it takes the presence of the Holy Spirit to properly discern the truth, and apply the scriptures properly.

Since you do not have the Holy Spirit in your lives, you will continue to have this problem, or will need to rely on people who do.

We all have free will to think what we want.

I hope you find these answers helpful. I will be more than happy to discuss any other scriptures as well.

I will go through each of the stated mocked scriptures. A real Christian will study scripture, and show himself approved before princes and kings, when questioned.

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1. homosexuality is a sin according to the bible. Yes it is, and God is not changing his mind, for anyone. It means just what it says.

Lev 18:22   Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it [is] abomination.

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2. Exodus 21:7 What is the price for selling daughter into slavery?

This passage does not say this. There is no price.

This passage is about servant hood of Hebrews to Hebrews, usually for the resolution of debts- not slavery.

They serve for 6 years to pay off the debt, then they go free, unless they choose to say, out of love for their master.

“Buying” of Hebrew servants- we would say hiring, or working to pay off a debt.

Exd 21:2   If thou buy an Hebrew servant, six years he shall serve: and in the seventh he shall go out free for nothing.

Exd 21:3   If he came in by himself, he shall go out by himself: if he were married, then his wife shall go out with him.

If he is given a wife by the master, she and the family remain if he leaves.

Exd 21:4   If his master have given him a wife, and she have born him sons or daughters; the wife and her children shall be her master’s, and he shall go out by himself.

The choice to stay with master

Exd 21:5   And if the servant shall plainly say, I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out free:

Exd 21:6   Then his master shall bring him unto the judges; he shall also bring him to the door, or unto the door post; and his master shall bore his ear through with an aul; and he shall serve him for ever.

A daughter is given to be a maidservant for the purpose of marriage – if he does not like her, then she is free, and it is forbidden to make her a slave, contrary to what Martin Sheen said.

He must instead provide for her anyhow. If she leaves, then she is provided for. This is to protect her honor as well.

Exd 21:7 ¶ And if a man sell [normally called a dowry] his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do.

Exd 21:8   If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her.

Exd 21:9   And if he have betrothed her unto his son, he shall deal with her after the manner of daughters.

Exd 21:10 If he take him another [wife]; her food, her raiment, and her duty of marriage, shall he not diminish.

Exd 21:11   And if he do not these three unto her, then shall she go out free without money.

For the President, Martin Sheen, since his daughter has been sent to the best schools, I hope she has gotten a good job, and never finds herself in debt.   If she is appealing enough, she might be able to find a husband on her own as well.

If she divorces, she will expect alimony or child support, as it is provided for her in the passage above.

She can thank the bible for establishing this principle long ago.

The woman is provided for, if the marriage does not work out.

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3. working on Sabbath , Exodus 35:2, who gets to put his employee to death, since he is morally obligated to kill?

Exd 35:2   Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.

There is a difference between killing, murder, and capital punishment.

This is capital punishment, and yes it is a commandment that God issued for man to rest.

Today, when we work and never rest, we kill ourselves with heart attacks, so no one needs to touch us. We will do it to ourselves.

Also, Jesus pointed out that acts of mercy and certain work can be performed on the Sabbath.

He healed on the Sabbath, which is technically “work.”

He made it clear that the true intention of the commandment was to make people rest, when they wanted to work, so they would not kill themselves.

It was also the day they dedicated to God, to honor and worship and fellowship with Him.

They had been slaves in Egypt, and worked 7 days a week.

They were to respect their own bodies enough to refrain from hard work that would hurt them.

Jesus explained that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

The Sabbath was also to show one day where they put God first. It was a time of fellowship with God.

They should appreciate what God was doing for them, rather than rebelling. The death penalty was for this rebellion.

Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

Jesus also pointed out that acts of mercy, and necessary work was not to be condemned.

For example, animals need to be watered every day, and cannot be ignored on the Sabbath. Or if they are hurt, they need to be helped.

Luk 13:15 The Lord then answered him, and said, [Thou] hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or [his] ass from the stall, and lead [him] away to watering?

Luk 14:5 And answered them, saying, Which of you shall have an ass or an ox fallen into a pit, and will not straightway pull him out on the sabbath day?

Jesus healed on the Sabbath. Today, Jewish doctors work on the Sabbath, and there is nothing wrong with it.

Luk 14:1 ¶ And it came to pass, as he went into the house of one of the chief Pharisees to eat bread on the sabbath day, that they watched him.

Luk 14:2   And, behold, there was a certain man before him which had the dropsy.

Luk 14:4   And they held their peace. And he took [him], and healed him, and let him go;

The point is, that to do necessary work on the Sabbath, is not forbidden.

But to work on the Sabbath as an act of rebellion against God, to refuse Him worship and fellowship, is a sin, worthy punishment.

If we cannot even show respect for the Creator who gave us life, then our life should be taken away.

The Lord has the right to take back anything he has given us – which includes our very lives.

After all, why should God continue to give you life, when you do not want Him in yours?

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4. touching the skin of a dead pig – Lev 11:7 , do we need wear gloves when playing football? Or can we play football at all?

You got the verse wrong. You quoted verse 7, instead of 8, although it is an introduction to verse 8:

Lev 11:7   And the swine, though he divide the hoof, and be cloven footed, yet he chews not the cud; he [is] unclean to you.

Leviticus says not to eat of their flesh.

It does not say wear gloves, or not to play football.

This is a lesson in microbiology.

Contaminated flesh brings disease, and possible death.

Pork carries the parasite trichinosis.

And bacteria are all over decaying flesh of any animal.

Lev 11:8 Of their flesh shall ye not eat, and their carcass shall ye not touch; they [are] unclean to you.

Deu 14:8 And the swine, because it divides the hoof, yet chews not the cud, it [is] unclean unto you: ye shall not eat of their flesh, nor touch their dead carcass.

How to get clean after touching a dead carcass – wash yourself, and take a bath!

Lev 11:31   These [are] unclean to you among all that creep: whosoever doth touch them, when they be dead, shall be unclean until the even.

Lev 11:40   And he that eats of the carcass of it shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even: he also that bears the carcass of it shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even.

No one should touch a dead carcass without washing their hands afterwards.

This is a concept in sterile processing and microbiology.

Pathologists and coroners today do the same thing.

Once they have touched anything dead, they wash their hands and arms, up to the elbow.

In the case of “pig skin” footballs, the skin has been processed and sterilized, and tanned. There is no need to fear contamination from a football, unless if falls into sewage somewhere.

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5. I stone my brother for planting crops side by side? (no reference given)

The bible never says this. But see # 6.

No one gets stoned for planting crops the wrong way.

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6. I burn my mother for wearing garments of 2 different threads? (no reference given)

The bible does not say this.

You have to understand the application and the reason behind any commandment.

The temple was made by mixing various coverings.

Num 4:8 And they shall spread upon them a cloth of scarlet, and cover the same with a covering of badgers’ skins, and shall put in the staves thereof.

You maybe referring to this:

19:19  Ye shall keep my statutes. Thou shall not let thy cattle gender with a diverse kind: thou shall not sow thy field with mingled seed: neither shall a garment mingled of linen and woolen come upon thee.

The specific application involves linen and wool, and Israel was not to mix the fibers from a vegetable product and an animal product into the same piece of material.

It expands in its practical application when we understand that mixing animal and vegetable fibers makes poor quality material.

If worn, the material would rip and tear within a short time.

Therefore, the intent—its spirit—is to teach us to purchase the best quality that we can afford.

The same holds true with the other laws that appear in this context.

God is instructing us that the best thing to do is to keep the breeds pure and not let hybrids develop.

The pure breeds of a species are always considered to be of higher quality.

Good agriculture would plant only one type of seed in one field, to allow the best growth, unhindered by another seed, that might be more dominant, and suppress the growth of the weaker plant.

No one is going to be burned here. These are rules on how to be successful in one’s personal daily works.

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Final Note.

Every person on earth is equal before a holy and righteous God.

There are no presidents, kings or rich men on Judgment Day.

We are all sinners needing salvation and forgiveness for our wrongdoings.

No one gets special treatment because they have been in a position of worldly power, or riches.

In fact the opposite happens.

Scripture says that to those who have been given much, much will be required of them.

How will each of us be judged?

I urge the presidents and kings of this world, and those who seem to worship power in high places, to reflect on the true meaning of scripture, which is to give life, not take it away.

Scripture is the protective fence that keeps us safe from Satan, the enemy.

The Word of God is life to the spirit, and to the soul. 

God understands the spiritual realm better than we do.

If we obey Him, we will have life.

If we disobey Him, we will bring death to ourselves – both physical and spiritual death.

 

The real question is, do you want to live ? – here, and in the world to come?

 

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45 Responses to “Bible Answers for Martin Sheen”

  1. Is the president of west wing a clone of Obama…His script certainly fits Obama. I am surprised Islam wasn’t incorporated into it…DANIEL did say TRUTH WOULD BE TRASHED IN THE STREETS…AND IT CERTAINLY IS TODAY..

    This trash is just part of satan’s set up to discredit the Bible so they can enthrone the koran, which positively is the gospel of antichrist…

    • hi ruth

      I think Obama watched West Wing. He has no original thoughts of his own.

      Martin Sheen may also be an Obama supporter.

      • I really needed a good laugh today…you are so funny Marianne! and thank you for the credit..:)

        And yes, Martin Sheen is an avid supporter of Obama-he refers him to JFK…I’ll find the video and post it.

        And WELL DONE Marianne! WELL DONE! 🙂

      • — Trivia time

        Ramón Antonio Gerardo Estévez (born August 3, 1940), better known by his stage name Martin Sheen changed his last name to honor his god on earth, bishop Fulton J. Sheen

        Martin Sheen is a Jesuit Temporal Coadjutor—par excellance!

        He does nothing without checking with his handler’s

    • I am laughing so hard….I am picturing Marianne wanting to throw up when she watches this video…”there’s no getting out of here unless we go together”….laughing…:) and the music is just too much! AND THEN he wants a contribution at the end….oh my…

      • Boy , is he deceived.

        Obama would like to get rid of all the Christians to make room for Muslim take over. He would like to see Israel crushed, so the Muslims can take over there.

        He would like to see all patriotic American Soldiers that fought for their country put on the “red list,” and have them labeled as domestic terrorists.

        He would like to see all babies destroyed during partial birth abortion. Sounds like someone a Catholic like him would appreciate.

        He would like to see the United Nations take over this country as he collapses the economy, and the nation, and makes way for the New World order.

        Put his faith into action? How? By building a mosque in NYC?

        He and Obama both hate Christians….they got that in common..since both mock the bible.

        I hope he wakes up. Until he does, he has nothing to offer, and this is a shame, since he has the money to do positive things.

        I wonder if his feelings for Obama have changed any, since the disastrous administration has started.

        • wish there was a way we could send this to the White House without getting on the “red list”

        • Good overall comment. I myself recognized the Obamanation. A big problem is that there are many die-hard Democrat Christians out there. I’m a Christian who became also a Catholic, and the Catholic Church is adamant in its Pro-Life stance, and I am sore that I run into Christians who ignore that teaching. Check out Priests for Life (Fr. Frank Pavone) – it is loaded with the best Pro-Life info; and check out Catholic Robert Spencer and Jihad Watch.

          • You won’t get much traction here – – this is a non-Catholic website, and it is of course entirely within Marianne’s right to ban us from posting here.

            I landed here because I saw that clip on YouTube and since I never watched the series, I was curious what other Christians had to say about it.

            To “Dan” above, I would say that Martin Sheen merely took on the name of a man he greatly admired, nothing more. Bishop Sheen’s TV show was #1 in the ratings for so long even Milton Berle quipped, “well, he has better writers than I do – – Matthew, Mark, Luke, John…”

            Having said that, Martin is gravely mistaken, and enabled (as psychologists say) by a Modernist church which has lost its way. He’s not confused, just misled by a hierarchy which serves a different agenda than Martin and close to a billion other Catholics believe they do.

            It’s really not surprising at all that a limousine liberal like himself believes as he does, despite claiming to be “Catholic”, when so many others do the same!

            From Pope Pius XII (d. 1958) on back, there was never any “confusion” among Catholics. People quietly held some strange ideas, especially after the Seventh Lambeth Council greenlit contraception (which would, only 30 years later, haunt even Catholics), but no one openly questioned Church dogma, or even doctrine.

            Vatican II let loose freethought, and Martin and most others fell victim to that. Yet nothing has changed – – God’s Word has not changed, His message has not changed, His commands have not changed. God is not subject to mere human politics. Indeed, it is an insult even to suggest that through human politics, we can somehow arrive at a greater understanding of Scripture. The Church – – yes, the Catholic Church – – used to forbid that very notion, q.v
            Pope Pius IX’s “Syllabus of Errors.”

            • CM Rosary

              fyi…catholics have never been banned here on this site. I have several pages as well that discuss catholic theology and prophecy.
              god bless you

              in all denominations, there is the true church and the false one…it is up to us to learn God’s word and obey it, and to represent it well to the world, so the world will not come up with such false impressions and interpretations as presented by martin sheen.

  2. Marianne,

    Thank you for sanctifying name of The Lord!

    Moreover, for example, in order to carry out punishment of death for profaning Sabbath – it must be proved that person who is accused is raised from the childhood in religious manner and had learned ENTIRE Torah and received all the knowledge regarding observance from his fathers – only in this manner and with presence of 2 witnesses at least court has the right to carry out the punishment; So it’s established, that you need to have condition in which person is raised in religious manner and dwells among other observing people – and as an act of rebellion he publically desecrated Sabbath, only then such death sentence can be applied; Moreover, you need Court out of 120 Judges attending in Temple in Jerusalem…of course, such sentence does not apply to average American who would profane Sabbath and certainly there is no moral obligation to threat person with death…

    American President played by Sheen pretty much resembles spiritual impurity and essence of Antichrist…

  3. Martin Sheen is telling us collective salvation is our salvation….Which is a lie from hell….That is like building a city so we are not scattered…or like many ways lead to god.. IT is the antithesis of the Gospel of Christ..
    Obama also gave a speech about individual salvation depends on collective salvation…..But before he gave the speech a muslim wrote a book using the same theme…Looks like satan’s children all have the same mind….

    http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~db=all~content=a755523676~frm=titlelink

  4. The bible says there will be a great falling away from Jesus and the man of sin be revealed…It is happening.. Matthew 25 and other churches in bed with Obama will probably accept into their hearts and minds the moon god named sin alias allah… Thus the man of sin will be revealed..He will sit in their temples (their bodies) and say he is the god of Abraham..

  5. Keep up the good work, Marianne!

  6. I never watched that show and Sheen has always been an arrogant Liberal in real life. Of course this was his character and the dialogue was written for him.

    Some people love to take the scriptures out of context and use them to their own ends.

    You say “But it takes the presence of the Holy Spirit to properly discern the truth, and apply the scriptures properly.”

    You are exactly correct, some people have hardened their own hearts to the true meaning of scripture, although all have the option to understand, and they can certainly understand the plan of Salvation enough to either accept or reject.

  7. The President is a master and all his servants are paid , or they are not there, are they. So Martin Sheen is showing hypocrisy , where a private person has some religious calling and follows conscience, but he, as president is a technical slave owner, a master over paid servants, and he is restricted by the Constitution not to pass judgments on private people and their religious callings. I could add that he said something about his daughter being sold into slavery, that by interpretation can be said to be a father’s controlling interest in the fortunes of his own daughter, without her permission to do so.

  8. The bible is clear and they who wish to change the meanings of the scripture do it at their own peeril. It is advisable to all christians to avoid arguments with non believers for it is said that it is through discussing issues of sripture that you dont understand that bringeth sin againist the holy spirit. everythin can be explained in the physical world but it wont change a thing for Gods word will be reveal according to his plan. Mortals have no bissiness giving ideas. For Mr sheen we do not know what sent you but we will pray that you see the light. Even paul was prosecuting christians until he saw a revealation. Your time is coming and for sure EVERY kneel shall bow and worhip the mighty God father of jesus. God bless you doctor.

  9. GEE,maryann is it a surprise martin sheen lives in fruit and nut california,everyone lives where the lord wants them to for a perpose,I do believe martin will enjoy his bus ride,seeing as how his ticket has been punched with his own mouth…………..

  10. What’s the difference between a religion and a cult? THe amount of people you can fool! Your bible is an amazing work of blended parables and poetry that protects itself well, as any ego-created idea or system would. Of course one has to be “in the spirit” to understand it. This limits the seriousness with which one can take someone that bashes the system/religion. You want to fill in the gaps that the bible and “god” supposedly left. No, it’s not talking about you killing yourself for working on the sabbath, it’s saying be put to death. Any other f*king time that bible mentions “being put to death” does this too mean “work someone to death”… And an omnipotent and all powerful god that’ male of course, came up with a plan that involves capital punishment? Or did men do it and say it was god? I’m blown away by how smart, eloquent, and successful human can be even though they still believe in santa clause and the boogie man. A male creator that made all male everything first, and then made the female from the male! And you f*ks buy this s*t, even the women! You believe god condones war and murder in the right circumstances, then get sad when some other religion does the same! A god that created the universe, knew every free will choice that would be chosen by every sentient being and angel, yet still gets mad about it. Imagine how great of a civilization we could be if we were actually awake!

    • dear another male god

      Now that you have vented, I hope you feel better.

      so have you replaced the one in heaven?

      the bible is the truth of God, you just do not understand it properly

      I wish you love and peace, not war and death.

      be blessed

    • AMG,
      Who made you God?

    • It is easy to hate, and curse. Try loving a G-d that went willingly to death so you might live. Showing it does not force humans to worship him, yet shows his laws are just by doing so.

      It is my understanding G-d wanted all those who had the Nephilim blood in them to be killed as they were not fully human. Like Golaith, and his brothers, or Oleg for example.

      Just want to throw that out there for you to chew on, as you seem to be like those who mocked Noah.

    • Ah ha ha ha! Yes! Thank you! Just like that crap about “unclean” meaning they were worried about contaminated meat 2000 years ago! Bullspit! They didn’t know anything about diseases-Christ cured the sick, remember? The page author is shooting in the dark because everyone is going off their own interpretations of the Bible. No one was around 2,000 years ago when the book was written, NO ONE can say with any certainty what was to be taken literally and what wasn’t. In the Bible’s time, people thought the earth was flat. Back then, no one knew what gravity was. People still believed in a geocentric universe! It’s amazing how advanced technology has come and yet how primitive society still is.

  11. You people are not right in the head..
    Religion is a manmade construction taken out of thin air – wake up, its the year 2013.

  12. Dear Marius,

    I pray the Lord open your eyes. So that you may know His Love, His peace and true Joy in your life, that you may enjoy Eternity in Heaven.

  13. Dear Marius

    Good luck, just remember the WORLD could regress like “A thief in the night” then what are you going to do, SONNY? I recommend ditching the COCKY ATTITUDE and TRUSTING in the LORD! The BIG PARTY is about to END.

  14. So you can twist to prove or disprove anything you want in the bible except for the part about homosexuality. You don’t try to find any deeper understanding or historical context in that one. You seemed to go into a lot of depth on all the others and even selectively found other bible quotes to prove what you wanted. Hummmm…

    • james

      it is the unbelievers who twist the bible to excuse their sins. the believers go by what is said.

      everyone is accountable for their behavior.

      the bible is clear on all points, some need more explanation than others.

      the price for sin is death, which is why sodom and gomorrah were destroyed.

      if you favor sin, you are on the wrong website.

      “deeper understanding” is really greater obedience, not less of it.

  15. […] Bible Answers for Martin Sheen […]

  16. I recently rewatched the episode you are referring to and wondered why the Bible would tell us not to plant different types of crops together. I Googled and saw your website among others.

    If you watched the episode then you know it depicted a meeting of radio talk show hosts where President Bartlet, not Martin Sheen as this is show is fictional, verbally attacks one of the talk show hosts for her answer that the Bible states that homosexuals are an abomination. Your description of the talk show host as defenseless, weak Christian is misleading. I would call Hannity, Rush and their ilk many things, but defenseless and weak are not among them. Talk show hosts are A type personalities and would be more than able to handle a verbal exchange.

    I appreciate you taking the time to decipher each of the Bible verses. The problem is that each of your answers is just your interpretation of them. Much like the riddle of the blind men and the elephant, your interpretation is just one of many. What makes you correct? Are your interpretations the official stance of your religion? And what religion is that? Catholic? Methodist? Baptist? Would each one agree with your answers?

    The problem is that you’re human. You cannot know the mind of God. Nobody can. So President Bartlet’s viewpoints are valid, just as yours are.

    So this leaves me still wondering why someone shouldn’t plant different types of crops next to each other. Maybe while I ponder this I’ll go out to my garden where I’m growing green beans, peas, carrots, etc. All planted together to make a garden filled with various wonderful foods; much like the world, filled with various wonderful people….homosexuals included.

    • jim

      god is sovereign. he does not have to justify his commandments, they are for our good, not harm.

      the point here is if someone cared enough to look at sheen’s issues in context of the bible, they would find answers.

      god forbid pork, he did not say because it has parasites, but thousands of years later, we figured it out.

      today in agriculture there are “companion crops” which can be beside each other, and then there are crops which should NOT be planted near each other.

      if you google it, you will learn about it

      examples

      Enemies: Garlic and onion stunt the growth of peas. POTATOES – Companions: Beans, cabbage family, corn, eggplant, pea. Enemies: Tomatoes and potatoes are attacked by the same blight. Allies: Horseradish, planted at the corners of the potato patch, provides general protection.

      http://www.burpee.com/vegetables/companion-planting-guide-article10888.html

      for companion crops and enemy crops

      hope this helps.

      I understand the word of god because I have studied it for 50 years

      and I understand what god means, while others may not understand…..

      I do not care who agrees with me, and who doesn’t.

      what matters is what god means, not what people think.

  17. If it takes only the presence of the holy spirit to discern the truth, then why are there now than 41,000 denominations of this “truth” by people who all have “presence of the holy spirit”?

    Perhaps it isn’t Martin Sheen that is trying to take things out of context Mr Internet apologist. Perhaps you’ve just never read your own Bible.

    • dear thinking

      yes martin sheen is out of it and has taken things out of context.

      I have studied the bible for 40 years, and gone through the whole thing about once a year, so that means I have read the whole thing 40 times,plus other passages, as the spirit leads me.

      so if anyone has not read the bible, it is not me.

      and I do not get my impressions from the internet chatter, I get it from actually opening the book and reading the words in it.

      there are not 41, 000 denominations….. but the existence of any is due to:
      1, breaking away from the catholic church, which is some christianity mixed with mithra worship
      2. different subjective opinions on interpretation of some passages
      3. lack of holy spirit in some cases
      4. for centuries, the education was not what it is today, and most people could not read for themselves, so they relied on pastors and priests to explain things….over time, education improved and more people could read, to see if the explanation given them made sense to them, or if they had a different view.
      5, in some passages, the bible is intentionally vague…to make the person dig for the interpretation….and it may have more than one meaning, or a meaning known only to God.

      I go by what the bible actually says….not what man tells me to think.

      I have had people bring challenges about what they were TAUGHT ( since they don’t read for themselves) was inconsistent about the bible, and I explained how the passages were not in disagreement at all.

      I explained the correct interpretations of the Sheen discourse, which is a script, not due to his own study,, so what is left that you do not understand? i would be happy to discuss it with you.

  18. Do you think that their might have been a reason that the Lord wrote the ten commandments in stone?

    — The 10 commandments are moral law
    — Immutable
    — Holy

    What is the correct day of worship again?

  19. Where does it say that a person must have the presence of Holy Spirit in order to properly interpret scripture as you say in the beginning of this peace? Also; What does “presence” mean and where does it say this?

    • greg

      an unsaved person does not have the presence of the holy spirit

      the holy spirit will come to dwell with the believer upon salvation.

      this is something jesus said he would send to the believers to help them live their lives, with proper understanding of God, and with the proper gifts to serve God.

      it is the holy spirits’ job to draw us to the Lord, and to transmit what the Father says in heaven to us on earth. that is how the ancient prophets were inspired to say what they did. the holy spirit was “with” them, and inspired them.

      the evidence of his presence is seen in the fruits of the spirit, such as meekness, faith, wisdom, holiness, etc.

      But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, Gal 5:22

      what you ask is a large question, I would have to write a book here, so if you google
      “holy spirit needed to understand scripture”

      it will bring up multiple references and links to read.

  20. So God means what he says in Lev 18:22 and doesn’t mean what he says in Exodus 35:2? I like how selective you are with your interpretations.

    • john

      God means everything he says.

      Lev 18:22

      “Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.”

      exodus 35:2

      Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.

      what part do you not understand?

      all sin is punishable by death.

      if mankind does not act on the sin, then God will.

      there are humane exceptions to exodus 35, which jesus pointed out, as in pulling an animal out of a pit on the sabbath to save it, picking corn to eat if hungry…etc…modern times, doctors and nurses have to save lives on sabbath, which is the higher good.

  21. As always, I am late to the discussion. This time it is because I didn’t have the opportunity to watch “The West Wing” back when it aired, so just watched this particular episode a few nights ago. However, I do want to say that the area you responded to so thoroughly is the area that hit home to me. That is why I investigated it more thoroughly. I am certainly not a Biblical scholar, but I have read the entire Bible. Even took a course back in
    college. And, yes, I am a Christian, but probably not in your opinion, or
    to your standards.

    However, if you are ‘excusing’ Old Testament laws by using New Testament exoneration by Jesus – – well, what about all those people between Moses and Jesus? How many hundreds and hundreds of years was that? And how many people were mandated to kill their own family or neighbor during all those intervening years? Oh, if they had only come to live in the more
    enlightened time of the three years that Jesus shared and taught!

    I’m a nurse (or was a nurse until I retired). I worked every other Sunday [Sabbath] for years. OK now. But if I had been one of the followers of Moses or anytime prior to Jesus ‘explaining it’ a little bit better – do you mean
    to tell me that a loving God would have, not only sanctioned, but demanded
    that I be put to death if I cared for my ill or dying husband, child, mother, father, neighbor, etc.? I mean, cleaning up a soiled bed, or cooling or warming an ill body, feeding, hydrating, applying compresses, making comfortable, sitting at bedside, or whatever is required is certainly a sin
    punishable by death. Surely I would have been dead at that time with my
    first act of care and compassion. So, who ‘goofed up’? ~ God with
    his initial edict or Jesus for waiting so long to clear things up?

    I absolutely agree that the Old Testament provides much {now better
    understood} wisdom that was possibly unknown to the people of that time,
    so was a benefit. But somehow, it does not sit well with me that you are
    privileged to reference verses from the New Testament that were written at least a millennium later to give a greater understanding to what was presented as an absolute to those that lived that long time before? Could our God be that uncaring or unthinking? I don’t believe that He is…..

    I am reminded of the statue of Moses that Michael Angelo created.
    Years ago, when in Rome, I got a small replica because I was so
    astounded that Moses had horns. (Yes, of course, you know this.) Why?
    Because that was the translation of that time of Michael Angelo. That
    one little fact tells me that the Bible can be misinterpreted ~ Or at
    least, misunderstood.

    You can quote your Bible verses all you want, but if they don’t lead you to
    greater empathy, compassion and love for ALL of humanity in ALL
    its faces . . . . Then it is just a tool to make you right and everyone
    not exactly believing or thinking the same as you wrong and less than.
    Kind of reminiscent of the Jewish elders admonishing the youthful
    Jesus…….

    • joyce

      this post was to explain the original intent of the scriptures. this original intent was also available in the time of moses as well as jesus.

      there was not just a written law, there was an oral law to go with it. somewhere, along the line, the original intent was lost. so jesus restored it.

      we see many examples in the old testament where the law was broken, but no death penalty was imposed. david and his men went into the temple and ate the showbread, but were not punished. david also committed adultery and was not killed by god as a punishment.

      there were sanctuary cities for those who accidentally killed someone and needed refuge from the avenging family.

      hosea was married to a prostitute and god did not tell him to put her to death. she was a lesson to him and israel what god has to endure from an unfaithful people.

      in one vision of zechariah, chapter 3, god shows the angel of the Lord ordering a change of clothes for Joshua, who was dressed in filthy rags, and had a beautiful set of garments placed on him. this is showing forgiveness of god..for any errors Joshua made.

      there was room for repentance…..and the mercy of god was always available to everyone.

      that is why god established the daily sacrifices. if one sinned, one could bring a sacrifice to atone for the sins. yearly, the nation had yom kippur to atone for the entire people of Israel….

      the death penalty was for those who would not repent.

      the original intent was to show right from wrong, and the severe consequences of breaking the law, both in the physical world and the spiritual realm.

      the original intent was then also to also show the love and mercy of god, and to establish repentance as a means of reconciliation.

      so god would have never condemned acts of kindness and mercy on the sabbath… these are not considered “work.”

      also, consider that women every day, not just 6 days a week, still had to care for their children…this is not “work” that has to be restricted. this is mercy and kindness.

      love and mercy rules over justice, and this was established and repeated many times in the OT as well. God prefers mercy and love over sacrifices.

      …7 Does the LORD take delight in thousands of rams, In ten thousand rivers of oil? Shall I present my firstborn for my rebellious acts, The fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?

      8 He has told you, O man, what is good; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God? Micah 6:8

      this is what jesus had to reteach to the jewish people, who had gotten burdened down with obeying only the law, and had lost sight of the original intent.

      I hope this helps…by the way, I have spent many years having to work on sunday….I worked in the hospital lab.

      6 For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings. Hosea 6:6

  22. obama plagarizes the speech

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