Did Jesus fulfill the Jewish Scriptures for Messiah?

It is legitimate to say that Jesus (Yeshua) did not fulfill all the messianic prophesies, and this lack of fulfillment is the basis for a split between Christianity and Judaism. This segment is not to examine every messianic prophecy, because that can be found by doing a general search on the internet.Instead, this is to look at HOW the messianic plan was meant to be carried out.Did Jesus do what he was supposed to do, or did he fall short of his mission?

The Moshiach- What Jews Expect

The moshiach will be a great political leader descended from King David (Jeremiah 23:5). The moshiach is often referred to as “moshiach ben David” (moshiach, son of David). He will be well-versed in Jewish law, and observant of its commandments (Isaiah 11:2-5). He will be a charismatic leader, inspiring others to follow his example. He will be a great military leader, who will win battles for Israel. He will be a great judge, who makes righteous decisions (Jeremiah 33:15), and ushers in a time of peace on earth. But above all, he will be a human being, not a god, demi-god or other supernatural being.

It has been said that in every generation, a person is born with the potential to be the moshiach. If the time is right for the messianic age within that person’s lifetime, then that person will be the moshiach. But if that person dies before he completes the mission of the moshiach, then that person is not the moshiach.

Did Jesus miss it?

Jesus (Yeshua) was born into a Jewish family. He was a rabbi. He was well aware of the scriptures and the expectations of the Jews. So if he was the messiah, why did he not fulfill those prophesies which would meet their expectations? He certainly did miraculous works, and witnesses testify of his death and resurrection.

He knew the messiah was to be the prince of peace, so where was the peace? When he rose from the dead, why didn’t he establish peace on earth then? That would have been the best time, and would have convinced everyone. Why didn’t he defeat the Romans and take over the throne in Israel? Had he only come to suffer, die and leave, allowing his people to remain in the hands of their enemies? What kind of redemption was that?

Did Jesus know what he was doing? As enlightened as he was, as evidenced by his demonstrated wisdom and teachings, we would expect him to carefully reconsider suffering through a crucifixion, if that would not accomplish God’s purpose in the messiah. Why did he resist being declared an earthly king when the Jews wanted him to take that position? If there was supposed to be peace on earth with an earthly king, why did he say his kingdom was not of this world? This sounds very spiritual, but has no practical use to people who need to be saved from their enemies. Was his purpose to frustrate the Jews, and die as a failure?

Did Jesus know what he was doing? Was there a plan that he was following, that he expected those familiar with scriptures to recognize? What plan was he following? Why did he say he would be back later? Where he get the idea he was supposed to make 2 trips to accomplish the divine plan for the messianic kingdom? Was he way off, or right on schedule?

There is evidence from the Book of Daniel that the Messiah was to come to regain the kingdom (lost in the Garden of Eden by Adam) for the saints, and then turn it over to the saints, who would possess it, and struggle against Satan to keep it. In a final battle, the Messiah would return to join with the saints, to finally defeat the enemy and secure the kingdom forever in a royal democracy.

Messiah in 2 trips

In the book of Daniel, chapter 7, the vision of the 4 great beasts has just been given. In verse 9, the Ancient of Days is seated on his throne. The first beast is slain and the rest of the beasts have their dominion taken away, for “a season and a time.” Verses 13-14 describe the Son of Man (Messiah) coming before the Ancient of Days :

Son of man receives kingdom in heaven

I saw in the night visions, and, behold, [one] like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion [is] an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom [that] which shall not be destroyed.

Here we seethe kingdom being given apparently in heaven, not on earth, to the Son of man, who is the messiah.Davidis given an interpretation, and told in verse 18:

The saints then take the kingdom

But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

Now, since the saints of the Most High just received the kingdom, they must have gotten it from the one who had it before them, which is the Son of Man (Messiah). They are possibly administrating it on his behalf, after a transfer of some sort, or it is now just theirs. The saints would be those who are faithful to the Son of Man. In verses 19-20, the fourth beast has come to power, and has 10 horns on his head, and one horn which has conquered 3 other horns. It then says in verse 21:

The fourth beast attacks the saints

I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

Now the kingdom is in jeopardy, with the horn apparently winning, until verse 22:

Ancient of Days judges in favor of the saints

Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.

The kingdom, all along, was meant to belong to the saints of the Most High, and the Messiah has an important role in making this happen. We are not looking at an absolute monarchy, but a royal democracy, where the people share in the kings’ authority.

Verse 27 says:

And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom [is] an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.

This is also confirmed in Micah 4:8

And thou, O tower of the flock, the strong hold of the daughter of Zion, unto thee shall it come, even the first dominion; the kingdom shall come to the daughter of Jerusalem.

Notice this does not say the kingdom will come to one man alone, the messiah. The kingdom is coming to the nation of Israel as a whole.

Isaiah 60 tells of the glory that will come to Israel:

1 “Arise, shine; for your light has come, And the glory of the LORD has risen upon you.
2 “For behold, darkness will cover the earth And deep darkness the peoples; But the LORD will rise upon you And His glory will appear upon you.
3 “Nations will come to your light, And kings to the brightness of your rising.
4 “Lift up your eyes round about and see; They all gather together, they come to you. Your sons will come from afar, And your daughters will be carried in the arms.
5 “Then you will see and be radiant, And your heart will thrill and rejoice; Because the abundance of the sea will be turned to you, The wealth of the nations will come to you.

The Messiah “breaks” the beast

However, the Messiah is still active in his government. Although it says, during the time of the beast, the Ancient of Days “makes a judgment in favor of the saints to possess the kingdom,” in Daniel 7:23, it also says the beast has to deal with the Prince of Princes (the Messiah) in Daniel 8:25. We see the beast “broken” by the Prince:

…. he [the beast] shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand[human means].

Since the Son of Man is in heaven in chapter 7, he would have to return to protect the saints against the beast in chapter 8.

Why Messiah not on earth when beast first attacks

In the 70 weeks prophesy, in Daniel 9:25 , it predicts that the Messiah shall be cut off (killed):

And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Here, it appears that the Messiah will not be around when the beast (evil prince) comes to destroy the saints and the city, since he has been “cut off.”

If one looks to Micah, we see the rest of the explanation. The latter days begin in chapter 4, with the remnant returning, the nations coming against Israel, and the (spiritual) birth pangs begin. The The “season and a time” allowed by the Ancient of Days in Daniel 7:12 seems to be over, and the main enemy, the Assyrian (beast) is back in chapter 5. This is a new restored Israel, whose horn is made of “iron,” and its hooves are made of “bronze.” (Micah 4:13) It is not the enslaved Israel that was in submission to the Romans. It is one ready for battle with the law firmly in place (Micah 4:2).

In Micah 5:2, it says

But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, [though] thou be little among the thousands of Judah, [yet] out of thee shall he come forth unto me [that is] to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth [have been] from of old, from everlasting.

Traditionally, this has been interpreted as a description of the messiah’s predicted birthplace. But as one reviews the “current events” just described, it also takes on a spiritual meaning as well. Restored Israel is going through birth pangs for its Messiah. The one who was physically born there needs to show up “from everlasting.” The review of past and present come together in the next verse:

Micah 5:3 Therefore will he will he [Messiah] give them up, until the time [that] she [Israel] which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.

Finally peace with Messiah present on earth

Messiah was cut off in Daniel 9:26, but “not for himself,” so he is cut off for whom, and why? It says here in Micah 5:3 that the Messiah gave them up, or delivered them up [to be scattered] until the birth pangs started. He is waiting for them to cry out for him. This indicates there is an interruption in time. Now, Israel has travailed and brought forth physically in 1948, and spiritually, while under attack of her enemies. The presence of the faithful remnant brings forth the Messiah. This is a spiritual rebirth as well as a physical one. It is the return and the cry of the remnant that brings the Messiah back from everlasting, where He has been waiting for them. Finally, there is peace:

Micah 5:4-5 And he [Messiah] shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth.

And this [man] shall be the peace, when the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men.

Notice that it is a united effort of Messiah and his people that defeat the Assyrian. This is because the saints share in rule with their Messiah. They finally, and fully, understand and step into their spiritual birthright – the kingdom. The Messiah was predicted, then, to make 2 trips, in order to first establish his kingdom on a spiritual level, be “cut off” by his own people, and then return to establish it on a physical one, once the Jews accepted him.

However, that is not all.More about the timing of the 2 trips.

The “Messiah” was to come after the Diaspora was brought back to Israel. The “Branch” will come and save Israel.

Jer 23:3And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.

Jer 23:4And I will set up shepherds over them which shall feed them: and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall they be lacking, saith the LORD.

Jer 23:5¶Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

Jer 23:6In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this [is] his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.

A hint from Jesus that the diaspora was still in effect at his first coming

Mat 10:5¶These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

Mat 10:6But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Mat 15:24But he answered and said, I (Jesus) am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

A hint from apostle Peter about then current diaspora

1Pe 1:1¶Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers (pilgrims) scattered (diaspora) throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

Peter was writing to the Jews outside of Israel in what is modern day Turkey.

So, Did Jesus show up too soon?

No.As noted above, the kingdom first had to be received by the Son of Man. So, all Jesus was supposed to do the first time was obtain the kingdom from the Ancient of Days, which occurred after he returned to heaven, not while he was on earth.The Diaspora was still real when Jesus came as the Son of Man. So it was not “time” for the Messiah to defend Israel. He had to wait until all Israel was back in the land.

Once the saints received the kingdom from Jesus, they would have to defend it until His return. Again, there is a 2 trip concept here.The first trip was to obtain the kingdom, and establish it spiritually, putting it in the hands of the saints.The second trip was to protect the kingdom, and establish it physically on earth.

Final confirmation of Daniel by Isaiah.

Isa 52:8Thy watchmen shall lift up the voice; with the voice together shall they sing: for they shall see eye to eye, when the LORD shall return to Zion.

Isa 52:9Break forth into joy, sing together, ye waste places of Jerusalem: for the LORD hath comforted his people, he hath redeemed Jerusalem.

Isa 52:13Behold, my servant shall deal prudently, he shall be exalted and extolled, and be very high

***The Jews are told that they will see the Lord eye to eye, that means in person, when the Lord returns to Zion.This implies that the Lord would have to be in physical form to be seen eye to eye.This means that the Lord is the servant- Messiah-Redeemer that they have been waiting for.

.This means he has been there before, and is returning to Zion.So far, only one individual meets this description, if he “returns.”His name is Jesus (Yashua).

Another point of disagreement is the divinity of Messiah. Did the scriptures describe a man or a supernatural being who was to come?

Click here to read more

Also, there seemed to be unfulfilled prophesies at the time of Jesus, because people did not understand the divine plan. To see the unfulfilled prophecies, which Jews use to express a disbelief in Jesus..

Click here to read more

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149 Responses to “Did Jesus fulfill the Jewish Scriptures for Messiah?”

Jesus Christ fulfilled every commandment and covered every sin in his blood when he willingly died for us on the cross. But why would christ die for sinners? For it was because of his love that he would die for us as sinners, so that we may be born again spiritually and be his sons and daughters. “For Christ so loved the world he gave his only begotten Son, so that everyone who believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that through Him it might be saved. For the scriptures say, “I can’t wait for the day when you no longer call me master but Father, for we will be seated in heavenly places with our Lord.

Joseph said this on February 13, 2008 at 10:09 am | Reply
Thank you for this. I have many questions about the Messiah, Jesus Christ. Questions on how to explain to family and acquintances that are Jewish about the Messiah, Is He Jesus? Why did he not fulfill prophecy? did He fulfull prophecy? Will the Jews if they are the chosen people of God will be saved?
Thank you.
Hope to hear back from you. Enjoyed this website.

Sonia said this on March 16, 2008 at 3:36 am | Reply
- Part of the problem explaining Messiah to Jews is that the Romans took away His Jewish garments, including His talit, and dressed Him up in Roman garment similar to the ones used ny their annoited one, Cesar.
  
  Shofar said this on March 2, 2014 at 2:39 am | Reply
- Sonia, Yeshua, whose name means salvation, is in effect the promised Jewish Messiah. Its just that He first came to fulfill some prophecy as Moshiach Ben Yosef. He paid the debts incurred by Israel, His betrothed and He paid the bridal price. He also made it possible for Gentiles as wild olive branches to be grafted into the natural olive tree, Israel.
  Israel is still His chosen bride and nothing in the world will change that, when Yeshua returns as Moshiach Ben David he will fulfill the remaining prophecies. It wont be long now. Look at the red moon tetrads and the pope identifying himself with Francisco, (Pedro) thus fulfilling the Petrus Romanus prophecy of the last pope. Things are about to happen.
  
  Shoshana said this on April 6, 2014 at 12:39 am | Reply
  - amen to that
    
    Marianne said this on April 6, 2014 at 1:11 am | Reply
Sonia,

Thank you for your comment. This had troubled me for about 10 years because my family background is Jewish even though I was raised as a Christian. I felt somehow the Jews had been tricked into not accepting their Messiah, which would have been an awful thing for God to do.

Jesus did exactly what he was supposed to do. He really was to come and then leave, and then return.

Just like today, people were not deep into the scriptures like they should have been, and relied on what happened once a week for understanding. And the leadership was too concerned with money and power to go deep enough to see what was to be expected of their Messiah.

I went looking for the answer to the question – was the Messiah supposed to come twice, and so I found what you see. Casual reading is ok, but it really helps to have certain questions in mind when you read the bible.

The issue of the Messiah having a divine or supernatural nature was also one for the Jews, yet there were scriptures showing that also. See the link about Jesus as the son of God.

God bless you.

marianne said this on March 16, 2008 at 10:20 am | Reply
Marianne-
The Jewish community is in an uproar, because Jews ARE turning to Jesus/Yeshua, as their Messiah!
There is a book I think would be excellent, as a source of information to find out WHY Jews (TODAY) reject Yeshua. One must remember, that Yeshua was born and raised a Jew, had a Jewish Mother, a Jewish earthly father, ALL of His disciples were Jews, and MNAY MANY JEWS DID BELIEVE the gospel message, while He was here on earth. The fallacy that Jews rejected Yeshua while He was here on earth, is bure bunk.
But the fact that Jews are turning to Yeshua is upsetting the Jewish Community. I recommnd you read the book: “26 Reasons Jews Don’t Believe In Jesus”. I recommend it ONLY as research material. I’ve read it, and their “argument” is weak, and based on misunderstood scriptures- both New Testament (Brit Chadasha) and the Tanakh.
Chag Sameach! Happy Passover-
Amber

Amber Michelle said this on April 4, 2008 at 2:25 pm | Reply
- Jesus was a Jew, he lived and died a Jew. He was never ever called Christ when on this earth. Also if Jewish faith forbids blood to be eaten why did Jesus a Jew, say at the passoever this if my body, this is my blood. It does not add up
  
  Ruth said this on May 2, 2013 at 8:09 am | Reply
  - Ruth
    
    Jesus was speaking of the wine as blood. it was symbolic, since he knew he was going to die.
    
    Marianne said this on May 2, 2013 at 3:28 pm | Reply
    - Thank you for your quick response. Some Christians believe in the Living presence. Nothing symbolical about this. For them it is the blood of Christ
      
      Ruth said this on May 3, 2013 at 7:52 am | Reply
      - ruth
        
        that is because they take the words literally, “this is my blood.” But if they look in the cup and taste it, it is still grape juice.
        
        Marianne said this on May 3, 2013 at 12:15 pm | Reply
        
        The christian church’s use wine have the miracle of the Transubstanciation ( spel? ) They believe in the living presence. Thanks for all replies. I think this has run its course
        
        Ruth said this on May 3, 2013 at 11:02 pm | Reply
      - Ruth in the Roman church they take it literally like originally the pagan religious ceremony Rome was familiar with. In Judaism certain pacts were sealed with blood and wine symbolized blood.
        
        Shofar said this on March 2, 2014 at 2:45 am | Reply
Awesome news about Messiah. I will try to get the book. When I post, I try to give answers to traditional objections, so that their academic issues are satisfied. Chag Sameach, Yom Tov!

Marianne said this on April 4, 2008 at 3:25 pm | Reply
So accdording to some passages in Matt about the gentile girl coming to Jesus to ask him to save her daughter or sister I think, he tells her that he came only for the jews. But because of her faith, he helped her. Does this mean he did only come for the jews? Does Jesus, God, love or prefer the Jews over everyone else? I thought there was no preference with God. He loves everyone equally.
Please help me understand this and explain if possible. thanks.

bt said this on June 7, 2008 at 6:08 pm | Reply
Dear BT.

Jesus came for everyone, but there was a certain order in which he was doing things.

Since the Jews were waiting for their Messiah, he was coming to them first. Once that had been accomplished, and the Jews knew him, he would use the Jews to reach the Gentiles.

This was the most efficient way to do things, since the Jews already knew the bible, and could teach others. This is why the first 12 apostles were Jews. They were easier to train and teach. The gentiles knew nothing about the bible and it would take longer to teach them.

So his plan was….to first the Jew, then the gentile. But the plan included everyone.

Love,
marianne

Marianne said this on June 7, 2008 at 6:50 pm | Reply
[…] The moshiach is often referred to as “moshiach ben David” (moshiach, son of David).https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/did-jesus-fulfill-the-jewish-scriptures-for-messiah/Companies from Israel – Free Members | Made-in-China.comIzik Mashiach, Israel, Izik Mashiach, […]

moshiach ben david and 2008 and china said this on July 9, 2008 at 4:54 pm | Reply
[…] all the messianic prophesies, and this lack of fulfillment is the basis for a split between …https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/did-jesus-fulfill-the-jewish-scriptures-for-messiah/What does it mean that Jesus fulfilled the law, but did not abolish it?What does it mean that jesus […]

how did jesus fulfill said this on July 11, 2008 at 11:45 am | Reply
The coming messiah will be Torah observant, meaning his Bible won’t include the NT. I look out my window and see war. jc didn’t accomplish the tasks and for that reason, there was no need to reject him since he obviously didn’t qualify by measurement of his lack of achievements, as required by the Hebrew Bible, not the Greek mistranslation of it.

Scriptures tell us none but G-d is to be worshipped that means the coming messiah too; for he is to be a man born of a man and a woman. Virgin birth is pagan and a myth shared by too many beliefs to be the path of unique redemption. Furthermore, Jews are matrilineal and since Joseph didn’t take part in the making, cannot pass on his bloodline, except by *magic* and we circle around to pagan influences again.

Who will the messiah worship? Himself?

What Gentiles need to learn about is Noahism and the Seven Laws starting with “There is none but G-d.” There is no other and He is not a man that He should lie.

wharold said this on August 6, 2008 at 2:59 am | Reply
Hello wharold

I think you are responding to traditional thinking of Christians, and not this post. Take a second look at what I said here. One of the things I do is correct “traditional thinking” of Christians.

I agree with you, and Jesus agrees with you. There is only one God and Jesus never said he was God. What he did say was that he was the son of God, and that the Father was greater than he was. The concept of “the son of God” is a separate discussion from the Messiah topic here. You will see this is true if you actually read the gospels. Why he said it, and what he meant by what he said, and why the leadership did not grasp his true meaning, is a different topic. Jesus was an observant Jew,.

He made it plain that he did not come to establish peace on earth and be king (Messiah). When he had the chance, he refused. So why was he here, and what was he only trying to accomplish?

There is a two part prophecy of Daniel I was addressing, and Jesus was part of.

First there is a “Son of Man” who comes and then appears before the Ancient of Days after securing the kingdom of God. He then transfers it to the saints, to empower them against the enemy (the beast). This is all he does. This is part #1.

Later, when the 4th beast comes to full power, in the last days, the beast wars against the saints and overcomes them, and the danger is there that they will be destroyed. Then the “Prince of princes (Messiah)” comes and breaks the power of the beast, and saves his people. This is part #2.

Jesus only came to fulfill part #1. So he did not come to be the Messiah described in part 2. That would be later when the beast comes to full power. So what was he supposed to do to secure the kingdom?

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

The blood of animals never fixed man’s inner nature. He always sinned. The servant described in Isaiah was – yes- supposed to be the nation of Israel, but Israel failed to do its job. God called his servant blind ( Isaiah 42:19). His servant was not a light to the gentiles. They could not even stay out of sin themselves. So the Son of Man ( Daniel 7, part #1), representing Israel, had to do what the people failed to do, first by his own efforts, and then with the righteous remnant that would return.

blessings
marianne

Marianne said this on August 6, 2008 at 1:45 pm | Reply
Hello!
My name is Anders Branderud, I am 23 years and I am from Sweden. I have practised Orthodox Judaism through Netzarim (www.netzarim.co.il) in Ra’anana in Israel (led by the Orthodox Jew Paqid Yirmeyahu ha-Tzadiq), who are followers of Ribi Yehoshua – the Messiah – since 2007-05. Before that I was a devoted Christian for 6 years.

By practising Torah non-selectively we make the world a better place to live in!

You write: “t is legitimate to say that Jesus (Yeshua) did not fulfill all the messianic prophesies, and this lack of fulfillment is the basis for a split between Christianity and Judaism”

The research of world-recognized authorities (for example Barrie Wilson; ) in this area implies that Ribi Yehoshua was a Pharisee (a Torah-practising Jewish group) – who according to 4Q MMT (a Scroll found in the Qumran-caves) practised both written and oral Torah.

That Ribi Yehoshua was a Pharisee implies that you need to practise his Torah-teachings if want to follow him. You do that by practising Torah (including oral Torah; see “Mishpat” and “Halakhah” at Glossaries in the first page at the above website)!

Ribi Yehoshua warned for false prophets who don’t produce good fruit = defined as don’t practise the commandments in Torah according to Halakhah (oral Torah; see “Mishpat” and “Halakhah” at Glossaries in the first page at the abvove website). See Devarim (Deuteronomy) 13:1-6.

If Ribi Yehoshua didn’t keep Halakhah he is a false prophet. Torah gives authority to Halakhah (as I said see the glossaries-definition at our website).

Why Jews don’t believe J*esus was the להבדיל Messiah is simply because he didn’t keep Torah and Halakhah.
So the real Messiah was the Jew Ribi Yehoshua who practised Torah and Halakhah.

To quote the first century Ribi Yehoshua: “Happy are they to be who hunger and thirst after tzedaqah [justness according to Torah; that is practising the מצות in תורה (Torah)], for they shall be filled of it.” [The Netzarim Reconstruction of Hebrew Matityahu 5:3].

All the best,

From Anders Branderud

branderudanders said this on October 21, 2008 at 11:39 am | Reply
Dear Anders

I appreciate your comments and insights from a Jewish perspective.

You are saying that there were 2 different people ??? :
1. the real Messiah – Jew Ribi Yehoshua who practised Torah and Halakhah
2. Jesus – who did not keep Torah and Halakhah

please explain….

blessings and Yom Tov
marianne

Marianne said this on October 21, 2008 at 12:21 pm | Reply
Hello Marianne!
I am glad to hear that you appreciate it!!

If you want to learn about the difference, please visit our website:
http://www.netzarim.co.il ; then click at the post “Christians”

Be blessed when you practise Torah and its mitzwot (commandments)!

From Anders Branderud

branderudanders said this on October 21, 2008 at 12:49 pm | Reply
Hello Marianne!
I am glad to hear that you appreciate it!!

If you want to learn about the difference, please visit our website:
http://www.netzarim.co.il ; then click at the post “Christians”

Be blessed when you practise Torah and its mitzwot (commandments)!

From Anders Branderud

branderudanders said this on October 21, 2008 at 12:51 pm | Reply
Dear Anders

Please answer original question….are you saying there are 2 different people, or just 2 versions of the same person.?

Anyhow, I need to leave for awhile. I do observe Torah. Today is Shemini Atzeret and I need to get to shul.

I am a Christian with Jewish ancestry who “went back home” to worship with my own people.

blessings
marianne

Marianne said this on October 21, 2008 at 1:03 pm | Reply
I must say that this is probably the most impressive blog post i’ve ever read (at least on the topic of Jesus).. I’m still giving thought to weather or not i should read the “To see the unfulfilled prophecies, which Jews use to express a disbelief in Jesus”, and i think i’ll go for it, as you’re quite good at putting information together in a way for it to make sense for everyone else, thank you.

Muslim said this on December 31, 2008 at 3:50 am | Reply
Hi Muslim,

Thank you for the kind words. I am a little different than most Christian writers. I am also a scientist, so I look at things from an academic perspective, and I try to look at all the information before giving a summary. You will see articles here on science as well, where events in nature seem to support scripture and prophecy, which is consistent with a Creator, and intelligent design of the universe.

I wrote this post here, because I have never seen any Christian scholar prove to others that Jesus was supposed to come twice. I have also never seen them tackle the objections that Muslims and Jews have about the identity of Jesus, the way it is presented by the traditional church, which I happen to disagree with. Muslims and Jews have certain legitimate objections, but Christian teachers just say it is a matter of faith, rather than finding scriptures that answer the legitimate questions.

Since these questions bothered me, and I wanted the answers too, I set out to find the scriptures, to help clarify the issues.

Here, in the book of Daniel, it was shown that who we now know as Jesus would come first as the son of man, to accomplish a redemptive work, and set up a spiritual kingdom. Only when he returns, to save the world from the antichrist, will he come as a king, or Messiah. It is a little confusing to put he two roles together, because then, a person would say he failed in some way.

But he was meant to come twice, and do certain things each time. I have spent much time with Jews, and they read the Torah every week, and do not get much further than that, outside of some passages from Ezechiel and Isaiah. I have seen their Chumash, the book they read from, and I have not noticed the book of Daniel quoted in there. That is why they are missing this revelation.

If you go to this page, you will see a summary of different studies about the nature of Jesus

Jesus – Who is He?

On thing Muslims say that is true is that the trinity makes no sense. They are correct. From the bible, Jesus never said he was God. He said he was God’s (spiritual) son, which gives him certain qualities. There was no “wife.” But you have to understand what he meant by that.

There is only one God, and that is the Father, and Jesus said this. Jesus pre-existed in heaven before he came to earth, as a heavenly personality, but he was never equal to the Father. He is there now, and will return. The catholic church teaches this wrong, because they did not put enough thought into studying the scriptures. This has caused much confusion. The Protestants did not understand it either, so they just accepted what the Catholic church said. This is stupid, when the answers are right there for everyone.

I can give more explanations, but this response would get too long. Thank you for visiting my site. Please feel free to look around. You are welcome to agree, disagree, put up your own views. The idea here is to debate and discuss what is on our minds, so we can find the truth that God wants us to have.

blessings and peace
marianne

Marianne said this on December 31, 2008 at 8:55 am | Reply
- Dear Marianne,
  The Bible is full of myths hence can’t be proved scientifically. You said you are a christian and a scientist, and you looked at things from an academic perspectives. I am a Christian like you but i am not a scientist and i believe in jesus’ resurrection. How about you? Do you believe he rose again from the dead judging from your academic/scientific perspectives?
  
  regards
  msu_74
  
  miranda urduja said this on June 16, 2009 at 8:04 am | Reply
  - Hi msu_74
    
    First of all, to be “scientific,” just because there is no evidence, does not mean something is a myth. For example, we have no proof as to what is on the planet Pluto, but this does not discount what is there as true.
    
    For most of the history of science, we could not prove what DNA was, until the last century. And these were about physical things. Imagine trying to prove something that is not physical with physical methods.
    
    The way people find confirmation of the Bible is that what God did thousands of years ago, He still can do and does now. If he worked a miracle then, he can work a miracle now.
    
    Regarding the resurrection, that has been studied scientifically.
    
    1. the Shroud of Turin, or burial cloth of Jesus, has been examined by scientists to see if it was that of Jesus, if he resurrected. An image was left on the cloth of a crucified man. While false critics claimed it was just a painted image on the cloth, all evidence pointed to a supernatural nuclear event bursting through the cloth, leaving an impression. It was not paint, the pollen grains indicated it was of middle east origin, and there was a 3 dimensional image INSIDE the cloth. The carbon dating was off, making it seem newer, until a microbiologist found a bacterium growing on it that produced a waxy coating that would decrease the dating on the shroud. So the shroud was really older than the carbon dating said. And it was about the right age (2000 years old) The technology today does not exist to reproduce the image that was examined on the cloth.
    
    2. Medical analysis of the suffering of Christ on the cross has been published. It accurately describes in medical terms how Christ died, and that there was no way he could have survived the ordeal, which discounts claims that he “fainted” and was removed before he died, so that he could recover. he had lost too much blood, his lungs had collapsed, and there was tissue fluid filling his lungs. He died from the shock of high blood loss affecting his heart, which went into cardiac arrest. Also, the way he was positioned on the cross made it increasingly difficult to breathe, as he had to push up with his feet in order to take each breath. As blood loss continued, as well as pain out of control, he was no longer able to do this and collapsed, stopping the air flow into his lungs.
    
    Marianne said this on June 16, 2009 at 11:26 am | Reply
Anders visited my blog with the same writing, all poor scholarship. My rebuttal is here.

David V.S. said this on February 1, 2009 at 6:45 am | Reply
HI David,

What exactly did I say that is the “same” as Anders? I read your blog, and really did not follow well what he was saying.

My point here is that Jesus did not fulfill ALL the prophesies when he came the first time (example; peace on earth), because it was predicted that he would come twice, and complete all works by the second coming.

blessings
marianne

Marianne said this on February 1, 2009 at 12:50 pm | Reply
I strongly disagree with the catholic faith, because of their practices of witchcraft. But the trinity is correct. Jesus claimed in the bible over and over again that he was god.

http://www.godonthe.net/evidence/said_god.htm
http://www.gotquestions.org/is-Jesus-God.html

“We are not stoning you for any of these, replied the Jews, but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God” (John 10:33)

The Jews understood what he was saying from his statements, he was claiming to be their holy god.

not to mention statements such as i and the father are one, and he is in me and i am in him, (paraphrased)

do your research and you shall find the truth, because i myself doubted the trinity, but after alot of research the conclusion is that the trinity is correct.

elsid aliaj said this on February 27, 2009 at 10:03 pm | Reply
Hi elsid aliaj

I acknowledge the Father, Son and holy Spirit. It is the relationship between the 3 that is the subject of discussion.

Jesus said he was the Son of God, and that God was his Father, then he said “the Father is greater than I.” So there is not an equality present. Jesus also directed us to pray to the Father in his name, but not to him. He said he came to do his Father’s will, not his own. This indicates that he was submissive to the Father, not equal to him.

Now, once Jesus went back to heaven His status was elevated.

However, from the very beginning, before he came to earth, Jesus was divine in nature. He has to be divine, if his Father is divine, just like you are human, if your father is human. But you are not your father, and if you are in your father’s house, he is the boss.

Even in some epistles of Paul, we see a distinction between the Father as “officially” God, and then the Lord is Jesus Christ, as if there is a distinction between them. There are no quotes from written scripture where Jesus announces “I am God.” He does admit that he is the Son of God.

Check:
1 Cor 3:6
Gal 1:3, 3:26
Eph 1:2-3, 4:5-6
Phil 1:2, 2:6,9, 11

blessings
marianne

Marianne said this on February 27, 2009 at 10:29 pm | Reply
Like I said before. The Jewish people don’t believe that the Messiah has come so they are primed for the deception of the antichrist. They will be deceived into thinking that the antichrist is the messiah.

After that Christ will come back as the Lion of Judah to save Israel from itself.

P.S. Based on your posts I kind of thought that you were Jewish. That explains a lot.

Contender said this on May 16, 2009 at 6:22 pm | Reply
Hi everyone

What did God Say About Having a Weapon for= Self-Defense?
.
Liberal Jews tell us that it is “bad” to have a gun in your home.= This arrogantly assumes that you must be a bad person because inanimate= objects can’t be “bad” except in the hands of a criminal.= Communist societies were infamous for taking guns away from their citizens,= and Communist societies went on to mass murder over 100 million people= during the twentieth century as noted in “The Black Book of= Communism”.
.
In Luke 22:35 and 36, Jesus told his disciples: “And he said unto them,= When I sent you …, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing. Then said= he unto them, But now…. he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment,= and buy one.”
.
Any reasonable person should be able to draw the obvious conclusion that if= the disciples of Jesus were told to actually sell their coat to buy a= sword, then righteous men should be able to arm themselves for defense= against criminals.
.
Once again, the Jews want us to be all disarmed in a police state, that they= will control, and God wants us to be able to protect ourselves with a= weapon.

The order of evil posits a more complex reality than Christianity, and consequently develops a more independent, naturalistic and chaotic philosophy. The response of Christianity and other forms of control is fear and recrimination. The Altar of Blasphemy reveals the heartbeat of heresy, but it is only your will that can give birth to your own demon.

The question is, who is causing all the trouble? Why is our economy collapsing? Why are we fighting so many wars? Who are the REAL terrorists? Who’s behind the abortion slaughter? Who’s behind the nationalizing of American business? Who owns the federal reserve Bank (it is a privet bank)? Why do we pay interest on our own money?

Click here for more details

AdvetleilligH said this on July 7, 2009 at 2:12 am | Reply
God came and talked to me. He spent 3 years and I wrote down volumes of what he had to say. In a very long story that God told about Jesus, ended up in him saying that Jesus was NOT the prophet. He said that Jesus wasn’t even his name. The Romans made that name up when they made up the NT. Jesus is a Greek word and it doesn’t translate into Yeshua. Remember the Disciples were Hebrews and they would have written in their own language, Hebrew. The NT was written in Greek because the Romans wrote it. That was too easy to figure out. The Jews still speak Hebrew today, they never gave up their language for Greek.

Now I wouldn’t have researched that if God hadn’t talked to me, cause I didn’t care about the Bible. But the rest of you study it and you couldn’t figure something that simple out.

OK, maybe I wasn’t being fair to you. So I will give you another example from God. God says that the Pope is a Pagan. Now God is very fond of Pope Benedict XVI and he goes to Heaven even though he is a Pagan. How is the Pope a Pagan? The Church says that Jesus died for you. Jesus died for your sins. That is Human Sacrifice. Pagans practiced Human Sacrifice. ARe you following me here? When the Romans put the NT together they incorporated their ideas of Human Sacrifice into the story of Jesus. Remember the Romans served up numbers of humans to the dieties, they knew all about Human Sacrifice and how they thought it worded out for them. It also was their source of entertainment in the same way you watch violent movies. They didn’t have TV like you do. Really think about it, why would someone as intellgent as God need a Human Sacrifice. You people really can’t think he is like that, he is not a blood thirsty monster. Parents don’t sacrifice their children, especically. It is just dumb to think that someone else has to suffer for your sins. If you have been bad, your going to suffer for your own sins. God says Judgment is very real. You have all been decieved. Now I am not going to be hard on you for being deceived, cause I was just like you until God pointed a few things out to me. So don’t feel bad for being stupid.

Melanie Stephan said this on September 11, 2009 at 2:06 am | Reply
God says that resurrection is real. You just don’t get your old body back. Your old body is trash. It is disposed of. You get a new body in your Father House. Don’t look at me, that is what God said. That is the word of God. No one saw Jesus walking around in his old dead body. If they did they are a liar.

Melanie Stephan said this on September 11, 2009 at 2:13 am | Reply
- Dear Melanie
  
  The Romans did not write the New Testament. The apostles did. The gospels were written in Hebrew and translated later into Greek. Some were written in Greek to begin with, but that was to communicate with the gentiles, who did not know Hebrew.
  
  Jesus offered his life to pay for our sins. This is self-sacrifice, not pagan sacrifice.
  
  Jesus name in Hebrew would have translated “God is salvation.” This would be Yahoshua in Hebrew, but many people shorten it to jut Yeshua, which means salvation.
  
  THe bible is the Word of God. I suggest you read it for the first time. I understand your sincerity, but you do not seem to know what is written in the bible, from the remarks you made. Jesus had a glorified body after the resurrection.
  
  Marianne said this on September 11, 2009 at 2:25 am | Reply
jesus christ is the son of GOD my friend when he spoke of earthly things the people did not understand…when he spoke of heavenly things the people could not relate…jesus did bring peace to all those who believe in the faith he died for OUR sins my friend he did not leave he is inside all of those who open there hearts as god was in him when he was on earth doing miracles how else you think jesus was doing these things he saved us from our selves we are our biggest enemy cause we are the ones responsible for our sins not our enemies jesus says love your enemies ….hard isint it ? well we sin againts god ALL the time god has no fellowship with sin which makes us transgressors of the law “enemies” of god cause we disobey him yet he loves us …makes sense why jesus would say that right? jesus did not come here preaching his ressurection he spoke of the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN and praised the lord GOD at all time his words were fruit pleasent to all those who heard this great wisdom that has possesed there understanding in achiveing what we recon as words of grace truth and power remember god spoke and things were created jesus is the word of god that came to give testimony againts the world and it hated him for it why ….cause the world is full of sin and walks in darkness and its deeds are dark so how can jesus say he is of this world! you and i are from this world this is why we are the way we are but jesus is not there was no sin in him just truth,life,and the way to god …he has been with the father since the begining look at genesis when god said “LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE WITH OUR LIKENESS” who is god talking to if he was all alone…. live forever in the truth my friend cause the good and the bad trees must grow together but soon all those tress who do not bear fruit will be chopt down and tosst into the fire every eye every tounge shall see the son of man in the day of his glory filled with power from god the father who is was and always will be alpha omega the iam! god bless you and may god keep you my friend your brother in christ full of peace in faith …john

john said this on October 17, 2009 at 8:56 pm | Reply
Entire Torah speaks of Mashiach, here are some lesser known verses from the Bible speaking about Second Coming:

Parallel of Rev.19:15 and Psalms 45:4 –

“ 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.” (Rev. 19)

“4 Gird thy sword upon thy thigh, O mighty one, thy glory and thy majesty. (Psalms 45)

“9 Myrrh, and aloes, and cassia are all thy garments; out of ivory palaces stringed instruments have made thee glad.” (Psalms 45)

“6 Who is this that cometh up out of the wilderness like pillars of smoke, perfumed with myrrh and frankincense, with all powders of the merchant?” (Song of Songs 3)
“2 And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them.” (Deut. 33)
(Actually, The LORD never “came” from Sinai, The LORD appeared to Moses at Sinai, but He didn’t come from there; Rather, it describes path of Jesus Christ during Second Coming from Sinai; The LORD, during exodus, never rose from Seir and shined forth from mount Paran with ten thousands of saints…this describes Second Coming and proves that The LORD of Israel and Jesus Christ are One and The Same)

“ 3 Yea, he loved the people; all his saints are in thy hand: and they sat down at thy feet; every one shall receive of thy words.” (Deut. 33)

Regarding what Jesus said:

“28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.” (John 10)

“2 Praise ye the LORD for the avenging of Israel, when the people willingly offered themselves.
3 Hear, O ye kings; give ear, O ye princes; I, even I, will sing unto the LORD; I will sing praise to the LORD God of Israel.
4 LORD, when thou wentest out of Seir, when thou marchedst out of the field of Edom, the earth trembled, and the heavens dropped, the clouds also dropped water.
5 The mountains melted from before the LORD, even that Sinai from before the LORD God of Israel. “(Judges 5)

(This supposedly describes battle of Barak, Sisera and Yahel in Judges 4, but that battle took place at Kishon and Meggido near Jezreel in Northern Israel, while verse really describes Second Coming from Seir and Edom, very far distance from Jezreel; And Sinai also didn’t melt when God gave Torah – Exodus 19,20)

12 Awake, awake, Deborah; awake, awake, utter a song; arise, Barak, and lead thy captivity captive, thou son of Abinoam. (Judges 5)

This refers to Jesus Christ in New Testament:

“ 8Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.” (Eph. 4)

Ultimate fuflfilment of Genesis 15:3
“And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; they shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise their heel.”

“22 Surely God will smite through the head of His enemies, the hairy scalp of him that goeth about in his guiltiness.” (Psalms 68)

1 “Who is this that cometh from Edom, with crimsoned garments from Bozrah? This that is glorious in his apparel, stately in the greatness of his strength?’–‘I that speak in victory, mighty to save.” (Isaiah 63)

Again, God coming from the desert during Second Coming, with forces of destruction:

“3 God cometh from Teman, and the Holy One from mount Paran. Selah His glory covereth the heavens, and the earth is full of His praise. 4 And a brightness appeareth as the light; rays hath He at His side; and there is the hiding of His power. 5 Before him goeth the pestilence, and fiery bolts go forth at His feet.” (Habakkuk 3)

Again, wounding the head of the wicked (satan) as in Genesis 15:3
“12 Thou marchest through the earth in indignation, Thou threshest the nations in anger. 13 Thou art come forth for the deliverance of Thy people, for the deliverance of Thine anointed; Thou woundest the head out of the house of the wicked, uncovering the foundation even unto the neck. Selah” (Habakkuk 3)

Messiah, gathering nations in order to burn them up:

1 Behold, a day of the LORD cometh, when thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. 2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, but the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. 3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when He fighteth in the day of battle.
(Zechariah 14)

“ 30Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.” (Mat. 13)

Gavriel said this on December 24, 2009 at 12:25 am | Reply
4 me when we talk about Jesus he is really the messiah but it was not his fault that he died early because it was the jews fault!…
in my belief, he is a human being that understand God’s heart that is why he was proclaimed as the messiah. in saying that he did miracles in the bible was that some of the story was only symbolic….
if i will question you about in the bible, when Adam and eve eat the fruit of good and evil they realize that they disobeyed God, do you believe that it was really a fruit? then where is that fruit here on earth? or was it only symbolic? when they realize that they have sinned, they cover their sexual part right?
(in the part of reality when someone was caught doing something bad, the 1st thing they will hide is the part of their body that who did it, right?..4 example, a mother told her son not to eat the cake she baked, and when the mother’s gone the boy try to taste it. when the mother came back she find out that the cake was gone and the only person that she see near in the cake was her son (let’s say they were the only people in the house)
then the child probably hide his hands if there are some bits of bread or acing) that might be like in the story of Adam and eve, they cover their sexual organs instead of their mouth…
anyway when God say that do not eat the fruit, if u will eat it you will die, right? but when they eat it, did they die? no right? so how will u explain it?

karra said this on February 25, 2010 at 6:30 am | Reply
- Hi karra
  
  Adam did die. He was supposed to live forever, but he didn’t. Also, to God one day is as a thousand years, and Adam only lived to be 900 years old. So he lived less than a “day” in that time. Time was different then.
  
  I think his sin could be both literal and symbolic, although I am guessing, since I was not there. Just like the boy with the cake example. There really was a cake, and the boy ate it. The cake symbolized the sin that he committed, and the cake was real.
  
  If the sexual organs were begin hidden, and the sin was symbolic only, then the sin was sexual, and not an apple.
  
  Marianne said this on February 25, 2010 at 12:37 pm | Reply
  - Marianne,
    Adam was created the 6th. day and thus he died before the 7th. day ?
    If a thousand years is as 1 day unto the Lord … then I assume Adam died before the 7th. day. Right?
    HHHmmmmmmm ? Lots to think about.
    
    Abigail said this on February 25, 2010 at 2:29 pm | Reply
Hi,

Please read through the messages in this Blog.
All glory and honor, power and praise, be unto our God for providing us with HIS Word through this blog.
Send it across and share it with the multitudes who are hungry for HIS Word.

Freely we received, freely shall we give.

Link:

http://www.holyoneofisrael-reconciliation.blogspot.com

God bless you.

Servant of the Most High said this on March 8, 2010 at 9:45 am | Reply
Hi everyone

http://www.internetmosque.net – Compared Translations of the meaning of the Quran

Why We Die: from ancient to modern ideals
—————————————–
Death is understood as a part of our life . In ancient times , it was not as accepted . We searched for immortality , we ran after various myths and legends of a ‘fountain of youth’ and ‘golden fleece’ to give us everlasting life .

Along with the fables of potions and objects to prevent death , came the assumptions of why we die .

Numerous philosophers and poets gave their explanations , the ancients believed death was a curse on humans whereas pagan gods were immune to this curse , those gods could also remove this curse through a human/god marriage or sacred rituals .

In the Bible , Paul gives a similar reason for death by claiming we die because of sin . Paul asserts that the first human sinned , therefore lost immortality , and subsequently causing all humans to be seemingly ‘ cursed ‘ with death .

At first , Paul blames Adam by saying ; “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned” Ro 5:12

“For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die…..” 1 Co 15:21-22

“Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned…” Ro 5:14

“For the wages of sin is death…..” Ro 6:23

We fear and hate what we don’t understand , hence Paul says; “The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. ” 1Co 15:26

Furthermore in the Bible , we encounter an equivalent to the ‘fountain of youth’ concept ; “Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day. ” John 6:54

This is repeated by Paul who gives his own summary that Jesus gives eternal life ;

” the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus ….. ” Ro 6:23

“…..Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality…..” 2 Timothy 1:10

Then Paul slips the accusation from Adam , over to Eve . Paul accuses all women of being responsible for the actions of Eve and says a woman can redeem herself through the pains of child ” birth ” ;

” ..Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet woman will be saved through bearing children” 1 Timothy 2:14-15

Fortunately today , scientists know that common death is caused by ….. Oxygen .

Oxygen is a natural element which also helps in corrosion of automobiles and flowers . The same reaction this element has towards metals and wild life, it too has towards our bodies , slowly aging us until death . This gas is a slow poison which affects each one differently as it also deteriorates metals and plants at various speeds .

As prescribed by Doctors , anti-Oxidants are shown to slow the aging process . None the less , the anti-Oxidants do not stop our expiration date , and eventually , at a set time , we die .

The Holy Koran confirms this natural process and does not give us episodes of ‘original sin’ and ‘magic potions’ . Instead the Holy Quran gives us facts from our Creator that death is a normal process and we live for a certain period and then return to God :

” And among His Signs in this: thou seest the earth barren and desolate; but when We send down rain to it, it is stirred to life and yields increase. Truly, He Who gives life to the (dead) earth can surely give life to (men) who are dead. For He has power over all things.” (Holy Koran 41:39)

” Lo! Allah (it is) Who splitteth the grain of corn and the date-stone (for sprouting).; He brings forth the living from the dead and He is the bringer forth of the dead from the living; that is Allah! how are you then turned away.” (Holy Koran 6:95)

Nearly 1,400 years ago, prior to scientists confirming that the origin of death is the prolonged exposure to the elements on earth, the Holy Quran in these verses compares us to other living organisms, and summarizes that it is a common cycle for the plants (humans) to die due to the conditions on earth, while as the plants die and are brought back to life by the Heavenly water, so shall we be brought back to life on the Day of Judgement .

Therefore it is not because of a sin or a curse that we pass on , it is because of the environmental conditions of earth as stated in the Holy Koran , roses are at one point in full bloom , and as the wilting process takes affect , the rose plant deteriorates and is eventually lifeless, the rose was not born a sinner as we are not born sinners, but the rose dies as we one day too return to our Creator .

The Gospel leads some Christians to believe that Eve is the cause of all death on earth. Their interpretation is that all of God’s creation was made perfect, immortal. Then when Eve sinned, she was no longer perfect, no longer immortal, consequently passing death through out the earth.

Archeological scientists give us evidence through the Fossil records clearing the felony accusations towards Eve. Fossils give us solid proof that death existed and occurred millions of years before the existence of humans.

The oldest human fossil, the homo habilis skeleton has been dated to be 2 million years old, showing that humans are relatively the youngest life forms on earth.

The conclusive verification that death existed despite the activities of humans, is that fossil skeletons of monkeys were found 39 million years old, ancestors of rabbits 45 million years old, prehistoric dog and cat skeletons 64 million years old . All manifesting death millions of years before humans ever sinned.

This concrete evidence again shows that death is not a transmitted curse, instead death is a natural geological process which first affected algae and bacteria over 3 Billion years ago.

“Every soul shall have a taste of death: and We test you by evil and by good by way of trial. to Us must ye return.” (Holy Koran 21:35)

Again signifying that death is universal, and no soul is exempt , the word “taste” here supports the fact that -common death- is due to our life term of inhaling the oxygen based gases.

“And a soul will not die but with the permission of Allah the term is fixed;” (Holy Koran 3:145)

“Say: “Running away will not profit you if ye are running away from death or slaughter…..” (Holy Koran 33:16)

“We have ordained death among you and We are not to be outrun” (Holy Koran 56:60)

Medicine and machines may slow death, but eventually we die, eventually , death catches all of us and it can not be conquered as Paul in the Bible conceives .

“Yet have they taken, besides Him, gods that can create nothing but are themselves created; that have no control of hurt or good to themselves; nor can they control death nor life nor resurrection.” (Holy Koran 25:3)

It is precisely stated in this verse that neither humans nor created idols, can have full control over death, dyeing is an unavoidable necrosis which those who assumed human gods could make you immortal, were wrong .

The Quran debunks all fallacies of ancient flesh god parables who give us immortality through sacrifices or ritual drinks , dying is an unavoidable occrance similar to the sun setting:

“And He it is Who gives life and causes death, and (in) His (control) is the alternation of the night and the day; do you not then understand?” (Holy Koran 23:80)

The Divinity of this cycle is clear . If the Sun did not set, and the Night did not cover the land , then all of the earth would become barren , with a constant Sun 24 hours a day , the earth would wither away.

Similarly, if humans did not die, the resources on this earth would have been depleted . We are surrounded by cycles, within and without our Universe, we also give birth, which maintains the existence of humans, so factually, both death and birth, maintains our presence here on earth.

Many cycles are referenced in the Holy Quran which generate and preserve life on our planet, if any of the numerous sequences, including death, were removed from the repeated phenomenons, the human race would fade away within a century, instead of lasting millenniums as we have been.

If we observe our surroundings realistically, we need death, we can’t live without it .

Life and Death are a Perfect pair like day and night:

“And all things We have created by pairs, that haply ye may reflect.” (Holy Quran 51:49)

Death in Islam is a transitional process , to die is nothing to remorse about:

“In that case We should have made thee taste an equal portion (of punishment) in this life, and an equal portion in death: and moreover thou wouldst have found none to help thee against Us!” (Holy Quran 17:75)

“Think not of those who are slain in Allah’s way as dead. Nay, they live, finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord;” (Holy Quran 3:169)

Here we see that death itself is not the punishment, the punishments from God are prior to death and in the manner of accountability, punishments and rewards are after death.

“Nor did We give them bodies that ate no food, nor were they immortals.” (Holy Koran 21:8)

“We granted not to any man before thee permanent life (here):” (Holy Koran 21:34)

We see that Adam , is confirmed to be a mortal , who was not exempt from death , so death was not passed down from Adam or Eve , nor did Adam cause himself to become mortal, being vulnerable to death is the way God created us .

Death is a stepping stone, not a pox spreading through humans, generation after generation. The Quran lifts you up and inspires you, the Quran teaches us that we are born Muslims (in submission to God), unlike other doctrines which teach you that we are born sinners, heathens, cursed, incomplete, imperfect, infectious, inadequate, and fall short .

While the Quran teaches you are a good person, you are born an agent of God, you can do the deeds that come with faith, and if not, God is Merciful, you are not passing a death curse on to your children, God loves you and your children, You are complete and you have the power to enter Heaven, with or without any other human assistance, No one had to die in your place , God forgave Adam at the start , God is forgiving . God takes your personal physical limitations into account and is Cherishing.

“And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; “Oh my sons! Allah hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam.”Submission to God (Holy Koran 2:132)

May God have mercy on those who love Him.

Peace

For more details http://www.internetmosque.net – click her

|

All of us will die one day INCLUDING YOU.

so before you die you must find out where the HELL you are going too.

You must find out

who is our savior Jesus or ?

You may sleep tonight and never get up in the morning?

You may die today.

You may die within a week

You may die within a month

you may die within a year

you may die within the next ten years

one thing for sure

You will die

so find out how is our savior so that he may save you.

http://www.internetmosque.net/saviour/index.htm

http://www.internetmosque.net/songes/s/1.htm

http://www.internetmosque.net/songes/s/17.htm

http://www.internetmosque.net/

http://www.internetmosque.net/quran/quraneng/index.htm

http://www.internetmosque.net/audio…n_Yahya/1_w.htm

http://www.internetmosque.net/audio…f-Estes/1_w.htm

http://www.internetmosque.net/audio…ilips/1-1_w.htm

payclatty said this on July 1, 2010 at 2:25 am | Reply
- Fossils did not precede mankind. The dating of fossils is influenced by the belief in evolution. The world was created. It did not evolve. Once man fell into sin, the world started to degenerate.
  
  Marianne said this on July 1, 2010 at 11:57 am | Reply
- 12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the Lord of hosts, and saith, Behold, the man whose name is the [m]Branch, and he shall grow [n]up out of his place, and he shall [o]build the Temple of the Lord.
  13 Even he shall build the Temple of the Lord, and he shall bear the [p]glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne, and he shall be a Priest upon his throne, and the counsel of peace shall be between [q]them both.”
  
  Zechariah 6:12-13 calls the MAN Yeshua the Branch. People that dont want to see that wont. Zac 5:3 is being fulfilled right now…
  
  Shoshans said this on November 25, 2015 at 3:07 pm | Reply
  - Hi Shshana, it does not matter if the person is called Yeshua. You have to take it into context. It talks about Yeshua the high priest in the time of Zechariah. You may confirm that by continuing reading. The crowns (yes there is more than one) will be given to Heldai, Tobijah, Jedaiah and Hen son of Zephaniah as a memorial in the temple of the Lord. This does not refer to Yeshua (Jesus).
    
    remi4321 said this on November 25, 2015 at 4:48 pm | Reply
- Payclatty the scientific dating method is not always reliable. For example Mount St Helens erupted in the 80’s yet according to some of the carbon dating tests it happened millions of years ago. I rather hear what the Almighty, Yahveh, says in His word than listen to what amounts to a theory of evolution. Man has been deceived by Satan, the angel of light that was kicked from the presence of Yahweh. He has already been sentenced and found guilty. There is a reason why in Gen 3:14 Yahveh says he is cursed. He has free reign on earth but is limited by Yahveh in some areas. However he is given carte blanche due to man’s iniquity. Iniquity is found all over, including on those who kill others thinking it will give them a ticket to paradise when in reality they will go straight to hell. Vengeance is mine says Yahveh. He does not need the help of puny men, specially when it comes to judging and passing verdict.
  No matter what man does he cant earn brownie points to heaven. Only through the blood of the second Adam can man be saved. Still once saved he is to follow Him and truly do as He did. Yeshua took our curse on the tree.
  
  Shoshana said this on November 25, 2015 at 3:28 pm | Reply
Hi

http://www.internetmosque.net – A new MP3 CD quality stereo audio Explanation of the Quran

“Are there any other sacred sources?”

Yes, the sunna, the practice and example of the Prophet (SAW), is the second authority for Muslims. A hadith is a reliably transmitted report of what the Prophet (SAW) said, did, or approved. Belief in the sunna is part of the Islamic faith.

Examples of the Prophet’s sayings

The Prophet (SAW) said:

‘God has no mercy on one who has no mercy for others.’
‘None of you truly believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself.’
‘He who eats his fill while his neighbor goes without food is not a believer.’
‘The truthful and trusty businessman is associated with the prophets the saints, and the martyrs.’
‘Powerful is not he who knocks the other down, indeed powerful is he who controls himself in a fit of anger.’
‘God does not judge according to your bodies and appearances but He scans your hearts and looks into your deeds.’
‘A man walking along a path felt very thirsty. Reaching a well he descended into it, drank his fill and came up. Then he saw a dog with its tongue hanging out, trying to lick up mud to quench its thirst. The man saw that the dog was feeling the same thirst as he had felt so he went down into the well again and filled his shoe with water and gave the dog a drink. God forgave his sins for this action.’ The Prophet (SAW) was asked: ‘Messenger of God, are we rewarded for kindness towards animals?’ He said, ‘There is a reward for kindness to every living thing.’ (From the hadith collections of Bukhari, Muslim, Tirmidhi and Bayhaqi.)

For more details http://www.internetmosque.net – click her

|

All of us will die one day INCLUDING YOU.

so before you die you must find out where the HELL you are going too.

You must find out

who is our savior Jesus or ?

You may sleep tonight and never get up in the morning?

You may die today.

You may die within a week

You may die within a month

you may die within a year

you may die within the next ten years

one thing for sure

You will die

so find out how is our savior so that he may save you.

http://www.internetmosque.net/saviour/index.htm

http://www.internetmosque.net/songes/s/1.htm

http://www.internetmosque.net/songes/s/17.htm

http://www.internetmosque.net/

http://www.internetmosque.net/quran/quraneng/index.htm

http://www.internetmosque.net/audio…n_Yahya/1_w.htm

http://www.internetmosque.net/audio…f-Estes/1_w.htm

http://www.internetmosque.net/audio…ilips/1-1_w.htm

payclatty said this on July 3, 2010 at 8:53 pm | Reply
I like to share with the two incident in days of our Lord Jesus about the upholding faith and unfaith.

First one is from St. Mathew 8:5 – 13:-

And when Jesus was entered into Capernaum, there came unto him a centurion, beseeching him, And saying, Lord, my servant lieth at home sick of the palsy, grievously tormented. And Jesus saith unto him, I will come and heal him. The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed. For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this [man,] Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth [it. ] When Jesus heard [it,] he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. And Jesus said unto the centurion, Go thy way; and as thou hast believed, so be it done unto thee. And his servant was healed in the selfsame hour. (Mat 8: 5-13)

Second one is from St. Luke 4:16 – 24:-
(Jesus First Preaching/reading from ESAIAS)

And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. And he closed the book, and he gave [it] again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears. And all bare him witness, and wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth. And they said, Is not this Joseph’s son? And he said unto them, Ye will surely say unto me this proverb, Physician, heal thyself: whatsoever we have heard done in Capernaum, do also here in thy country. And he said, Verily I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own country. But I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land; But unto none of them was Elias sent, save unto Sarepta, [a city] of Sidon, unto a woman [that was] a widow. And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Eliseus the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, saving Naaman the Syrian. And all they in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath, And rose up, and thrust him out of the city, and led him unto the brow of the hill whereon their city was built, that they might cast him down headlong. But he passing through the midst of them went his way, And came down to Capernaum, a city of Galilee, and taught them on the sabbath days. And they were astonished at his doctrine: for his word was with power. (Luke 4: 16-24)

Moral of these 2 Incidents:

As per the truth of Lord Jesus citation (“No prophet is accepted in his own country”), Jews are not accepting Him as the son of God Al(pha)mighty and they are still awaiting for his arrival with the old commandments of Moses. But Romans are accept and believed Lord Jesus. Even though, Lord Jesus was born in Jews Family.

Jews are thinking that Messiah will be a great political leader descended from King David and He will be saving from the earthly enemies. But as per Jesus, Kingdom of Heaven is not like kingdom of earth and our enemy is Satan the devil who art in Hell.

There is no mystery. What we want to know that will be explained by him.

Thanks & Regards,
J. Simon

J SIMON said this on July 24, 2010 at 1:17 pm | Reply
1. Messiah was not predicted to come until the last days of the end times. E.g the appointed time.

2. They are found in the Galilee of the Gentiles not Israel.

3. The righteous and suffering servant as a skin disease and there is no mention of Jesus Christ having a skin disease.

4. The Spirit of God is in female form. As Prophet Jeremiah predicted “A woman will encompass a man”. She is also featured in Rev 12 and Micah 4.

Eliakim said this on September 5, 2010 at 8:56 am | Reply
You noted nicely here that Moshiach has to take two trips, and then the full title is Moshiach ben-David. However in Jewish tradition we have many confusing traditions that suddenly become clear when one understands Yeshua. Some traditions hold there is one messiah, and others hold two- Moshiach ben Yosef and Moshiach ben David. The Yeshua that we all know and love clearly represents Moshiach ben Yosef. Yosef was the father of our concept of a hidden Tzaddik or righteous one. Yeshua’s revelation to his disciples as Messiah and son of God dwarfs that of Yosef to his brothers and many parallels can be drawn between the two men. Another tradition holds that Moshiach ben Yosef will come from Yehuda and save Israel, while ben David will come from Israel and save Yehuda. The Yeshua we know fits the tradition for Moshiach ben Yosef in every way that I’ve found. Because his mother’s line leads to king David, when he returns he is perfectly qualified to then fulfil the role of Moshiach ben David. The important thing is that he ascended to heaven and was not buried, and is hanging out with Enoch, Eliyahu ha-Navi, and all the tzaddikkim throughout the ages who God decided to keep with him until the end of times. While I’m on the subject if anyone manages to read this far on my post, there are two resurrections described in the scriptures. Because of this a lot of you Christians have some very strange rapture ideas. Something like that WILL happen EVENTUALLY as it is God’s will that none of his children will have to die, but we have much work before that. Moshiach will come and will raise the righteous 99-100% of which will take place in Israel and will raise our forces by summoning the righteous throughout the generations. At some ambiguous point AFTER we win, then the whole weird fire and brimstone, new world being formed, everyone on Earth being resurrected and judged stuff can happen.

shlomogordon said this on January 16, 2011 at 12:22 am | Reply
- shalom shlomo
  
  Can you explain the 2 resurrections? thanks.
  
  Marianne said this on January 16, 2011 at 1:23 am | Reply
  - Since there are so many prophecies sometimes we automatically group the resurrection ones together. But there are some inconsistencies, which clear up when it’s understood there are two sets. One is simply Moshiach returning and raising up his forces- in some places it says the righteous, especially in Israel, will be raised from the dead. This will happen first, it will be quite the sight (thousands to millions being raised), but it will be dwarfed by the latter. The former happens in a recognizable Earth, while the righteous in Israel are still fighting the Madhi/AntiMessiah.
    
    God’s Mercy is so great that his ultimate will is for all of his children to live again. This is where we get the more “out there” end-times prophecies, quadrillions being resurrected, the Earth being purged by fire and a new one being built. It is very hard to picture this kind of existence. Some say this will happen after a thousand years of Messianic reign… it’s nice to know that it will happen but I’m personally more concerned with the former. Any day now Moshiach is going to appear and I’m probably going to be one of the few people in Israel to recognize him.
    
    shlomogordon said this on January 16, 2011 at 9:25 am | Reply
Hi Marianne
I just noticed this discussion. Trinity question is a complicated one and here are some of my thoughts. Jeshua said me and my Farther are one. Who has seen me has seen my Farther. He also used of himself the same word which HaShem used of himself to Moses, I am. Tanach is calling Jeshua with the names arm and right hand of HaShem. Ps 77:15:”Thou hast with thine arm redeemed thy people, the sons of Jacob and Joseph. (Refering that Ephraim and Manasse, both also sons of Jacob, are Christian)” Isaiah 48:13 :”Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens. When I call unto them, they stand up together. You cannot separate an arm from a person. That is one person.
I am composed of an innumerable number of cells and body parts. They all are alive as long they are attached to me. Torah explains that the soul is in the blood and the blood is soul. Any part of my body dies as soon as it is separated from my soul.
Jesus commanded his deciples to be one and one with Him. His church is one as long His spirit flows thru all the members of the chuch. If it does not flow, the member is dead. When collecting deciples He said to one: Let dead bery their deads.
We are one body in Christ He being the head, others having different body tasks to do.
The signs of the times are also written in the stars. In Hebrew Jupiter is Melek(King) and Regulus(rightoeousness) is Zedek. When they are in conjunction in Lion we see Melkizedek. Jesus being a priest according to Melkizedek order he most likely was born at the time of this conjunction the 1st of Tishri 3 BC (= Sept. 11). At the same time
in Virgo the sun was clothing the Virgin and moon was at her feet. A very strong sign that something is happening. Trinity is seen also there that Regulus is a triple star, one of them shining much brighter than two others.
Once on the earth Jesus was a man but He was all the time filled with the Spirit of God. Everything He did was done by the Spirit and Power of God. Any man filled with the Spirit can do the same wonders. He also said that everything He has spoken was what Farther commanded Him to speak.
One thing which might have mixed up Jewish thinking of Isaiah 53 is that the beginning of the book describes King of Kings and the rest tells why. The lasta part tells the Jews that they are servants of God showing with examples of Jesus what it means. Only something like 1200-1300 Rabbis rejected this idea because it was a Christian teaching.
Jews should not be converted to Christianity (Christians have combined too many pagan habits like celebrating Easter and Christmas for Ishtar and Tammuz with old pagan manners). They should only learn that their Massaiah, the son of Joseph lives and governs sitting on the God’s throne in Heaven having power to make laws in the world to promote the gathering of Israel. From there He has guided Israel into existance and given Israel miraculous military wins and organized so that based on international laws Israel has now full rights to all the land from river to the sea. Muslim propaganda lyes and wants to own that whole land and the West prefers to appese Arabs and have joined to their lies. Problem is that Israeli leaders don’t trust in HaShem and don’t even dare to demand their legal rights from the West.
In Millenium Christians start following Torah and Jewish Fiests. Like from everywhere peoples come to celebrate Tabernacles to Jerusalem.
Constellation Auriga (meaning the Shephard) shows how Taurus’ horn is wounding the heel of the Shephard Gen.3:15. More signs needed before Jews start calling Jeshua.

Seppo said this on January 16, 2011 at 12:57 pm | Reply
Brilliant Seppo, Malchitzedek was always one of the most mysterious characters in the Tanach to me. There are a few hints in the Torah that show some sort of hint of a pre-Yeshua part angel, part man, part God, immortal. Like you said, the Trinity is extremely complicated. פניאל, the face of God, in angel name form… that is the name Ya’aqov gives to the place where he fights the “man”
In Ya’aqov’s prophecy at death he gives the best blessings to Yosef and Yehuda. This is the start of the tradition of Moshiach ben-David and Moshiach ben-Yosef. It seems from this that Yeshua will be called Shilo in round 2.
Moses asks God not to send him and send (in the Hebrew it is extremely unclear, but interpreted as an angel.) Later on Moses sees God’s back. As God is incorporeal, it must be Moshiach.
In Kabbalah the highest angel is understood to be Metatron, who even shares the throne of God. There are texts that talk about Kabbalists entering heaven with Merkava meditation before and after Yeshua. Some warn not to look at the hands or face of Metatron or one will become a heretic (see the scars from his cross and crown thorn). There is a famous story of 4 rabbis ascending, 1 dies, 1 goes crazy, 1 becomes a heretic, and the fourth is rabbi Akiva. My fellow Jews consider this to be a proof of the wisdom of Akiva (by the way he endorsed bar-Kochba as being the Messiah). My teacher and I see it the opposite: 1 wanted to stay in paradise, 1 couldn’t possibly rationalize what he saw, 1 decided to return and preach the Gospel, while Akiva either didn’t even make it to the same level of heaven or convinced himself that it didn’t happen to earn attention from the Jewish community. Moshiach ben Yosef (Yeshua) came from Judah to save Israel. Moshiach ben David (Shilo) will come from Israel to save Judah.

I’m trying to do some of the work that God’s will necessitates in Israel, though missionary work is not the way, honoring God and leading by example is.

Is there a website with the names of the stars and planets in ancient hebrew? I have Jupiter here as Tzedek… maybe Regulus is Malki? Today they just say regulus רגולוס lol.

shlomogordon said this on January 17, 2011 at 3:39 pm | Reply
Believe in Jesus with all of your heart, your soul, your mind and your strength because Jesus IS THE MESSIAH and he will be returning shortly. Many Jews will come back to Jesus. Jesus is doing many great and amazing things and will be calling many Jews back to him. God in the flesh, he is our Messiah and he loves us all! I love Jesus! 🙂

Ghost Whisper 77 said this on March 15, 2011 at 11:10 pm | Reply
- Amen to that! 🙂
  
  Marianne said this on March 16, 2011 at 12:07 am | Reply
Jesus is Lord!!!!!!!!!!!!

l.V said this on June 23, 2011 at 9:52 am | Reply
- Everybody Knows That Jesus Is Lord Of All!!!
  
  allen993 said this on September 14, 2014 at 12:43 am | Reply
Dear the Jewish People,

Yessuaha is the messiah the book of Revealations states that God will come and rule for a thousand years over Just not Israeal, but the whole erth this is know as the thousand year reing rapture!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

William Haacke said this on August 16, 2011 at 9:27 pm | Reply
The Jewish People have been spiritually blinded. Thus Yeshua spoke in parables, so that only the few with ears would hear. For if the Jews recognized Yeshua as King, the wedding feast would begin, and the gates closed to all without invitations.
Yeshua suffered partially in the knowledge of what was to befall his people, the Jews. Both Yeshua and the Jewish People suffered in order to DELAY the wedding feast. Why was it to be delayed? In order to harvest the maximal number of souls to unite with Elohim! But what LEGAL reason was given for the delay? The Lost Tribes of Israel were promised that they would be returned from all the nations to which they had wandered. Thus the scattering of Israel, (The Northern Kingdom) was due to their sin, but served the purpose of an excuse to delay the wedding.
Today, as there are more and more people leaving Churchianity; “making haste from Babylon”. A Torah Observant Messianic no-longer Lost Israelites, they are Messianic Israelites. And in parallel there are more and more Messianic Jews. But the most important occurrence is fulfillment of the entire plan: individuals from the nations deciding that Sunday Churchianity is false, and are recognizing themselves as engrafted Israelites.
Three Groups:
1. Messianic Jews
2. No-longer Lost Israelites, eyes being opened by Ruah HaKodesh; Messianic Israelites. Eventually 1. and 2. will merge as in Ezekiel 37:15.
3. Individuals engrafted via Yeshua. This group is the largest and represents the actual main harvest of this 6000 year plan.
4. There will be remnants of the nations who are none of the above. They will still be obliged to obey the Commandments of Noah, and Succot.
This entire plan was initiated in Gan Eden. (The Creator called His creation “Tov M’od”, serpent and all!)

brian said this on August 26, 2011 at 5:07 pm | Reply
New creator in Christ. QUESTION: WHAT DID CHRIST RECEIVE UPON FULFILLMENT OF PRINCIPLE OF SUBMISSION?

Sherry said this on February 14, 2012 at 5:31 pm | Reply
- Before Jesus died, he preached that the kingdom of God was at hand. Once he died, he received the kingdom from his Father, which he then transferred to the saints until his return.
  
  The transfer is described in Daniel.
  
  Preexistence of the Chosen One
  
  –
  
  Marianne said this on February 14, 2012 at 10:42 pm | Reply
Sorry about the spelling ( should be new creature in Christ)

Sherry said this on February 14, 2012 at 5:33 pm | Reply
- Welcome to the family of God, Sherry! : )
  
  “QUESTION: WHAT DID CHRIST RECEIVE UPON FULFILLMENT OF PRINCIPLE OF SUBMISSION?”
  1) Heavenly Father’s restoration – Jas 4:10
  2) Heavenly Father’s praise – Rom 2:29
  3) Official position as Author (High Priest) of eternal salvation – Heb 5:8-10
  4) Honorary Name above all names + knowledge that his submission had not been in vain – Php 2:7-16
  5) > 100-fold+ increase in houses, brothers, sister, mothers, children, lands, and eternal life – Mark 10:29,30
  
  There is probably more…
  
  Peace and blessings to you.
  
  45squared said this on February 14, 2012 at 8:09 pm | Reply
you are looking for physical evidence not spiritual thats why you can’t see the truth

ray herrera said this on July 11, 2012 at 8:18 am | Reply
there is both physical and spiritual evidence of Jesus being the messiah.Jesus fulfilled over 400 prophecies of himself.now thats amazing

ray herrera said this on July 11, 2012 at 8:22 am | Reply
- hi ray
  
  this post was written for the Jews. they do not see the spiritual, as they are still blind, so we have to find ways to point out what they can see in the physical. I agree that Jesus has fulfilled many prophecies, and will complete all as fulfilled in the near future.
  
  Marianne said this on July 11, 2012 at 9:46 am | Reply
  - Amen, amen!! Even His disciples did not believe Jesus was the Messiah after His resurrection from the dead. Look at the two disciples who were going to Emmaus (Luke 24.13-35). Christ called them (Verse 25) “O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken. 26. Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? 27.And beginning at Mosses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.” For any sincere Jews who study the Old Testament without any reservation, can see Jesus is the Promised Messiah. There is a excellent debate on You Tube between Dr. Michael Brown and a Jewish Rabbi. I recommend any doubting Jews to watch it. God Bless.
    
    sam said this on February 22, 2014 at 2:23 am | Reply
Just read..

Old Testament Prophecies Fulfilled In Jesus’ Life

by Dave Arch

There were two primary evidences which the apostles appealed to over and over again to establish the Deity and Messiahship of the Lord Jesus Christ. One was the fact of the resurrection and the other was the Old Testament prophecies which were fulfilled in the life of Jesus Christ.

Below is a listing of the prophecies written in the Old Testament and given to the Jewish nation so that they might be able to recognize their Messiah.

I. THE ACTUAL PROPHECIES

A. Concerning His Birth

1. Born of the seed of woman (Genesis 3:15; Galatians 4:4; Matthew 1:20)
2. Born of a virgin (Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:18, 24, 25)
3. Son of God (Psalm 2:7; Matthew 3:17)
4. Seed of Abraham (Genesis 22:18; Matthew 1:1; Galatians 3:16) Here it is determined that the Messiah would be a Jewish descendant.
5. Son of Isaac (Genesis 21:12; Luke 3:23,34) Abraham had two sons, Isaac and Ishmael. Now God eliminates one half of the lineage of Isaac.
6. Son of Jacob (Numbers 24:17; Luke 3:23,34) Isaac had two sons, Jacob and Esau. Now God eliminates one half of the lineage of Isaac.
7. Tribe of Judah (Genesis 49:10; Luke 3:23,33) Jacob had twelve sons and each became a tribe of the Hebrew nation. Now God eliminates eleven-twelfths of the lineage of Jacob.
8. Family line of Jesse (Isaiah 11:1; Luke 3:23,32) Now God narrows it down even further by picking one family line out of the tribe of Judah.
9. House of David (Jeremiah 23:5; Luke 3:23,31) Jesse had at least eight sons (I Samuel 16:10,11). Now God eliminates all of Jesse’s sons except one, David.
10. Born at Bethlehem (Micah 5:2; Matthew 2:1) Now God eliminates all the cities in the world except one, Bethlehem.
11. Presented with gifts (Psalm 72:10; Isaiah 60:6; Matthew 2:1,11)
12. Herod kills children (Jeremiah 31:15; Matthew 2:16)

B. Concerning His Nature

13. His Pre-Existence (Micah 5:2; Colossians 1:17; John 1:1)
14. He shall be called Lord (Psalm 110:1; Luke 20:41-44)
15. He shall be called Immanuel (“God with us”) (Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:23)
16. Shall be a prophet (Deuteronomy 18:18; Matthew 21:11)
17. Shall be a priest (Psalm 110:4; Hebrews 5:5,6)
18. Shall be a judge (Isaiah 33:22; John 5:30)
19. Shall be a king (Isaiah 33:22; Matthew 27:37)
20. Special anointment of the Holy Spirit (Isaiah 11:2; Matthew 3:16,17)
21. He zeal for God (Psalm 69:9; John 2:15-17)

C. Concerning His Ministry

22. Preceded by a messenger (Isaiah 40:3; Matthew 3:1,2)
23. Ministry to begin in Galilee (Isaiah 9:1,2; Matthew 4:12,13,17)
24. Ministry of miracles (Isaiah 35:5, 6a; Matthew 9:35)
25. Teacher of parables (Psalm 78:2; Matthew 13:34)
26. He was to enter the temple (Malachi 3:1; Matthew 21:12)
27. He was to enter Jerusalem on a donkey (Zechariah 9:9; Luke 19:35,36,37a)
28. A “Stone Of Stumbling” to the Jewish nation (Psalm 118:22; I Peter 2:7)
29. “Light” to the Gentiles (Isaiah 60:3; 49:6; Acts 13:47,48a)

D. Concerning Events After His Burial

30. His resurrection (Psalm 16:10; Acts 2:31)
31. His ascension (Psalm 68:18a; Acts 1:9)
32. Seated at the right hand of God (Psalm 110:1; Hebrews 1:3)

E. Prophecies Fulfilled In One Day

The following 29 prophecies from the Old Testament, which speak of the betrayal, trial, death and burial of Jesus, were spoken at various times by many different voices during the five centuries from 1000-500 BC, and yet all of them were literally fulfilled in one twenty-four hour period of time in Jesus’ life.

33. Betrayed by a friend (Psalm 41:9; Matthew 10:4)
34. Sold for 30 pieces of silver (Zechariah 11:12; Matthew 26:15)
35. Money to be thrown down in God’s house (Zechariah 11:13b; Matthew 27:5a)
36. Price given for potter’s filed (Zechariah 11:13b; Matthew 27:7)

In the previous four prophecies we find in both prophecy and fulfillment the following:

1. Betrayed
2. By a friend
3. For 30 pieces of silver (not 29)
4. Silver (not gold)
5. Thrown down (not placed)
6. In God’s house
7. Money used to buy potter’s field
37. Forsaken by His disciples (Zechariah 13:7; Mark 14:50)
38. Accused by false witnesses (Psalm 35:11; Matthew 26:59-61)
39. Mute before accusers (Isaiah 53:7; Matthew 27:12-19)
40. Wounded and bruised (Isaiah 53:5; Matthew 27:26)
41. Smitten and spit upon (Isaiah 50:6; Micah 5:1; Matthew 26:67)
42. Mocked (Psalm 22:7,8; Matthew 27:31)
43. Fell under the cross (Psalm 109:24; John 19:17; Luke 23:26)
44. Hands and feet pierced (Psalm 22:16; Luke 23:33)
45. Crucified with thieves (Isaiah 53:12; Matthew 27:38)
46. Made intercession for His persecutors (Isaiah 53:12; Luke 23:34)
47. Rejected by his own people (Isaiah 53:3; John 7:5,48)
48. Hated without a cause (Psalm 69:4; John 15:25)
49. Friends stood afar off (Psalm 38:11; Luke 23:49)
50. People shook their heads (Psalm 109:25; Matthew 27:39)
51. Stared upon (Psalm 22:17; Luke 23:35)
52. Garments parted and lots cast (Psalm 22:18; John 19:23,24)
53. Suffered thirst (Pslam 69:21; John 19:28)
54. Gall and vinegar offered Him (Psalm 69:21; Matthew 27:34)
55. His forsaken cry (Psalm 22:1; Matthew 27:46)
56. Committed Himself to God (Psalm 31:5; Luke 23:46)
57. His bones not broken (Psalm 34:20; John 19:33)
58. His heart broken (Psalm 22:14; John 19:34) The blood and water which came from Jesus’ pierced side are evidences that the heart had literally burst.
59. His side pierced (Zechariah 12:10; John 19:34)
60. Darkness over the land (Amos 8:9; Matthew 27:45)
61. Buried in a rich man’s tomb (Isaiah 53:9; Matthew 27:57-60)

II. OBJECTIONS ANSWERED

A. Fulfilled Prophecies Were Actually Written At Or After The Time Of Jesus

Answer: If you are not satisfied with the date of 450 BC as the date of the Old Testament completion, then realize that the Greek translation of the Old Testament was completed in 250 BC.
Therefore, it appears evident that there were at least 250 years between the time of the writing of the prophecies and their fulfillment in Jesus Christ.

B. The Fulfilled Prophecy In Jesus Was Deliberate On His Part. He Knew The Old Testament Well Enough And Just Set Out To Fulfill All Of Them.

Answer: This might seem possible until we realize that thee were many prophecies outside of His control, such as:

1. Place of birth (Micah 5:2)
2. Time of birth (Daniel 9:25; Genesis 49:10)
3. Manner of birth (Isaiah 7:14)
4. Betrayal
5. Manner of death (Psalm 22:16)
6. People’s reactions (Mocking, spitting, staring, etc.)
7. Piercing of His side
8. Burial

C. The Fulfilled Prophecy In Jesus Was Coincidental, An Accident

Answer: Peter Stoner in Science Speaks (Chicago: Moody Press, 1963) determines the probability of one man fulfilling eight of the prophecies of the Old Testament for the Messiah to be 1 in 10 to the 17th power.

Now let’s try to imagine what this means. If we took that many silver dollars (100,000,000,000,000,000) and laid them over the State of Texas, they would cover the state two feet deep. Now mark one of the silver dollars, stir the whole mass thoroughly, blindfold a person, and tell him/her that they can travel as far as they want but must pick up one silver dollar and say that it is the marked one. What chance would s/he have of picking up the right one? It would be the exact same odds of anyone fulfilling eight of the Messianic prophecies by chance alone.

Peter Stoner then goes on to consider the possibility of any one person fulfilling 48 of the prophecies by chance. Here the odds jump to 1 in 10 to the 157th power. That number would look like this:

1 out of 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

CONCLUSION

“Remember the former things long past, for I am God, and there is no other: I am God and there is no one like Me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things which have not been done; Saying, ‘My purpose will be established, and I will accomplish all My good pleasure.'”
(Isaiah 46:9,10)

“I declare the former things long ago and they went forth from My mouth, and I proclaimed them. Suddenly, I acted and they came to pass. Therefore, I declared them to you long ago, before they took place I proclaimed them to you, lest you say, ‘My idol has done them, and my graven image and my molten image have commanded them.'” (Isaiah 48:3,5)

Evidence The Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell
has been a primary source for the preparation of this paper.

cy said this on July 31, 2012 at 5:53 pm | Reply
- good presentation.
  
  Marianne said this on July 31, 2012 at 10:30 pm | Reply
  - Thank You, Miss Marianne!
    
    allen993 said this on September 14, 2014 at 12:56 am | Reply
Jesus fulfilled all Scripture referring to the deeds of the Messiah . The Church is the Body of Christ, the sustaining presence of Jesus Christ, as He gave His Flesh and Blood in Holy Communion, appearing in Eucharist and eaten by the Saints, who then Partake in the Divine Presence, confirmed by the Risen Christ appearing to the Saints and giving them the Holy Spirit to understand and carry out the Scriptural Deeds of Messiah as Christ said He would be with the Church to the very end of the Age, and in this Age, the Deeds of Christ are underway. Christ is God, who appeared in the flesh as one man, Jesus, but the Salvation Plan was to adopt all who come by Faith to be in the Corpus Christi, the actual Body of Christ, yet on the Earth , with all Consent of God to Power and Authority to do the Ministry of Christ until all is accomplished. Jesus became a One, and Gave Himself over to the Many, in a Spiritual Gift of God to bring together the People as One Body of Christ, and finishing all the Prophecy of Deeds that Messiah would do, but He begins Lowly as one man, then ends in Exultation as Many Saints, where Jesus is the Capstone, and the Saints are the building up of the Temple of Yahweh God, on Earth . The Corpus Christi ,the Mystical Body of Christ, where Jesus Christ is entering the world though the Church, and the Saints live a life where Jesus Christ , in the Holy Spirit and the Corpus Christi is appearing in the world, just as He was in His own life as one man, now He is in the midst of the Many Saints. The Church is Israel, and the Jews were always at war with Israel, since the times of the Books of the Kings, they rejected the House of David and caused the Lamentations , where the Law was no more. the Jewish People are not yet Israel , they were cut off, for a lack of belief in the Messiah, and their own idea of the Messiah is merely another Napoleonic figure, who ultimately would bring the wrong kind of Peace or Shalom, the kind that comes with War and Ruin , where the Lions and the Lambs can lie down together, because they are all dead, dead ,dead. Judah could not give us the Messiah , Judah is the one who sold Joseph as a slave to Egypt and then lied to Israel that Joseph was dead, showing a false testimony of blood on Joseph’s coat of many colors. Judah then abandoned Israel and intermarried with the Canaanites and God killed the wicked ones. Then Judah cannot be “Servant Israel” They cannot be the Branch or herald the Messiah . they need Salvation first of all. Zachariah 14 says ” On that day there will be no longer any Canaanite in the House of the Lord our God” That is a reference to the Jews, “Men of Judah” That they are the last to be purged of sin, which branded Judah an Oath Breaker to Abraham, who said “There will be no Almah from the Canaanites for my son” The Jews are a Stiff Necked People, and have always warred against Israel. When Jesus came into Jerusalem , it was the Gentile Israelites who hailed Jesus as Messiah , and the Pharisaic Jews of Babylon , in Jerusalem plotted to force the Sadducee High Priest to condemn Jesus, and thus destroy the hopes of Israel . The Jews , since the time they rejected the House of David, have been enemies of Israel, The Jews are not Israel, they are cut off, as Jesus Christ called them all “VIPERS”

Carmine Fragione said this on November 6, 2012 at 6:43 am | Reply
Carmine it must of been easy for your ancestors to have said about my ancestors when we were in Europe living in shtetls (Yiddish villages) being tormented by Christians pogrom after pogrom and the holocaust and being so far from the holiness of the temple era, or in Muslim countries being subjected to jizya (non-Muslim tax) and living as second class citizens. However this is just Christian doctrine which piled up as it had seen that God had forsaken his people. You have to accept that this is false as clearly God hasn’t, and in fact brought us back to Israel and saved us from our enemies, from a hand stronger than us. This is all despite the fact that over 99% of Jews living in Israel don’t believe in Yeshua. Now I’m in the less than a percent that do, but don’t think that that makes me a Christian. The real believers were Jews who believed in Yeshua and preached him until everyone in Israel was either in the minority of believers or the majority of deniers. They were so in denial even miracles wouldn’t convince them. So they took it outside of Israel since there was no one to preach to and lots of persecution of believers and went to Europe and Asia minor. They had much success- there were doctrinal debates about if you have to circumcise new believers but they decided with the help of the holy spirit that the circumcision of the heart was more important. Despite this, there were still several rules that they lay down even for new believers- obviously they wouldn’t burden a new believer with the entire Torah in one day. Constantine took advantage of this kind of reform and just took it all the way, got rid of the Torah completely and made an easy religion that everyone could accept. Say that you believe in Jesus and keep the same old pagan practices that you always kept! This is the starting of Catholicism, and what today is known as Christianity. Every believer, Jew or Gentile must transcend the lies of Constantine and walk the path of the first ones, those critical years between “Christ” and “Christianity.” And so my advice to you and all who believe that rubbish is to close the worn down part of your bible where all the pages are bent (the New Testament), though it is truth, and to read the part that still has that new book smell (the Old Testament). Then you will see that God will never leave his people.
Read romans 11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+11&version=NIV
and Isaiah 54 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+54&version=NIV
one of the most beautiful lines in the prophets
4 “Do not be afraid; you will not be put to shame.
Do not fear disgrace; you will not be humiliated.
You will forget the shame of your youth
and remember no more the reproach of your widowhood.
5 For your Maker is your husband—
the Lord Almighty is his name—
the Holy One of Israel is your Redeemer;
he is called the God of all the earth.
6 The Lord will call you back
as if you were a wife deserted and distressed in spirit—
a wife who married young,
only to be rejected,” says your God.
7 “For a brief moment I abandoned you,
but with deep compassion I will bring you back.
8 In a surge of anger
I hid my face from you for a moment,
but with everlasting kindness
I will have compassion on you,”
says the Lord your Redeemer.

shlomogordon said this on November 11, 2012 at 6:29 am | Reply
- shlomo
  
  Amen to that.
  
  Scripture also promises to bring back the Jews to Israel, put a new heart in them, and that they will never have to leave the land again.
  
  Marianne said this on November 11, 2012 at 11:16 am | Reply
- Sholmo you are so right. The Christians have truly inherited lies from their ancestors, Jeremiah 16:19. They would do well ripping off two pages from all their bibles, the one that reads “Old Testament”, and the one that reads “New Testament” as those pages are added to scriptures and have brought about division and misunderstanding. The only new testament scriptures talk about is the one in Heb 8:10-12, which quotes Jer. 31:31-34. The New Testament is Torah written in the heart of Judah and Israel. The Gentiles are supposed to be grafted unto Israel, Rom 11.
  
  Shoshana said this on May 5, 2013 at 5:59 pm | Reply
Yes Messiah comes in two trips, one as Moshiach Ben Yosef (already fulfilled) and the next one as Moshiach Ben David (the one Jews will recognize). The part Christians do not understand either is that as Moshiach (Messiah) Ben Yoseph He had to expand His Torah which He declared in Matthew 5. He did not come to do away with it as the Romanized church claims, to do so would deny His being the Messiah. There has been a woeful misinterpretation of the JEWISH scriptures because the Roman church not only has tried to replace Israel in its position as the assembly and bride of Messiah but it has changed the days and feasts of Yah and the image of the true Messiah making Him look and act like one of their many gods. More than anything that is why His Jewish brethren can’t recognize Him! Its about time the church rediscovers and truly follows the true Jewish Messiah rather than the one made in Rome. Then and only then will they cause jealousy in Jews.

Shoshana said this on May 5, 2013 at 5:49 pm | Reply
This is the most beautiful article I’ve ever read on this subject. So powerful and enlightening, and you had complete facts (not assumptions) backing every wors you said. I like a good open-minded writer, and you stayed open-minded in your facts. You didn’t just take your own beliefs and try to nake the pieces fit together to support those beliefs; you took the Bible for what it says and nothing more. I now have no doubt that Jesus was who he said he was. K’ve really been struggling with this subject until now. Thank you so much and God bless you!

April said this on November 13, 2013 at 12:52 pm | Reply
It has been clearly demonstrated to you that The Lord alone is God; there is none beside him. Know therefore this day and keep in mind that The Lord is God in heaven above and on earth below there is no other. And The Lord has given his good news to us, which was his own agreement and action. Look, publish and proclaim that the woman has given birth to the son. God stretched his mighty Arm down from heaven to earth to preserve humanity. The Lord is the Redeemer and the Messiah. God’s Word became a human being. Isaiah 9:6-7 says that the anointed child from the lineage of David is called mighty God, Eternal Father, and the prince of peace. A prince is also the King, and Yeshua the Mashiach had his name written above his head as king of the Jews, and in Ancient Roman times the Romans always wrote the names of the people that were to die by crucifixion. The Lord came to Jerusalem to buy back those in Israel who have turned back from sin. God had a plan to restore the kingdom of David, for God said that the dynasty of David was to be forever. And because God’s children were made of flesh and blood, he himself became a human being. For only as a human being could he die, and only by dying could he break the arm and government of the devil who had the power of death. It is also written that God anointed himself as the Messiah and the oil of joy was on him more than on anyone else, see Psalm 45:7-8. Also, when spell out Yeshua in Hebrew, it is spelled with the Yod, shin, vav and the ayin. And the Yod means hand, work and worship. The shin means El shaddai, which means God Almighty. The vav means pillars, mountain, kingdom, add, rise, in the air and secured. The ayin means eye, presence and fountain, which is the good shepherd, private mediator, counselor and water supply. The Lord rebuilt the kingdom of David, when he rose from the grave. He resorted the tent of David so that humanity could be absorbed into the presence of God. The Messiah himself has brought peace to us. He united the Jews and the Gentiles into one people when, in his own body on the execution-stake, he broke down the wall of hostility that separated us. He made peace between Jews and Gentiles by creating in himself one new people from the two groups. Together as one body, Messiah Yeshua reconciled both groups to God by means of his own death on the execution-stake and our hostility toward each other was put to death. He brought this Good News of peace to the Gentiles who were far way from him, and peace to the Jews who were near. Now all of us can come to the Father through the same same Holy Spirit and revelation because of what Yeshua the Messiah has done for us.

Yisrael said this on December 2, 2013 at 11:49 am | Reply
Yes, Yahshua (Jesus in the Greek) of Nazareth is the Messiah. The ONLY Messiah. He warned about ‘false christs’ appearing and declaring to be him in the last days. -Deceiving and potentially even murdering/devouring people. He said: If you hear he is in this or that place: ‘Do not go out to them.’

markdybee said this on March 9, 2014 at 7:05 pm | Reply
really inspired and tough by the powerful inspirational messages
. like to read more

harudy.denem said this on April 5, 2014 at 2:28 pm | Reply
I Believe That Jesus Did Fulfill The Scriptures!

allen993 said this on August 15, 2014 at 10:43 pm | Reply
Thank you for taking the time, and putting this together. It is well thought through, and I think even a Jew (such as me) can not dispute it.

Beckie said this on May 26, 2015 at 8:16 pm | Reply
- thank you beckie..
  
  many blessings to you
  
  Marianne said this on May 26, 2015 at 8:36 pm | Reply
Anybody that say Yeshua was the messiah, please point me one scripture that he fulfilled, only ONE. Let see how good he fulfilled anything!

remi4321 said this on August 6, 2015 at 5:44 pm | Reply
- remi
  
  http://www.accordingtothescriptures.org/prophecy/353prophecies.html
  
  http://christianity.about.com/od/biblefactsandlists/a/Prophecies-Jesus.htm
  
  Marianne said this on August 6, 2015 at 6:43 pm | Reply
Yes indeed… the messiah will be born of a woman… Are you the messiah?

Debunking 365 Messianic Prophecies

remi4321 said this on November 17, 2015 at 10:31 pm | Reply
- Remi you know when the real Messiah returns the whole world will see Him coming on the clouds, His shofar sounding loudly. All the false Mahadi and Christs won’t hold a candle to Him.
  The reason Abraham’s beliefs and obedience of Torah was accounted to him as righteousness was because of his faith. Works without faith is nothing, the same as faith without works is nothing; the two go hand in hand. So if you choose not to believe all your righteous acts are as filthy rags. Only by the blood of Yeshua can we be validated. He is our covering from all curses.
  
  Shoshana said this on November 21, 2015 at 10:24 pm | Reply
I was serious about the one scripture. I don’t want the 365 prophecies, but if you show me one scripture that could be fulfilled only by Jesus, I am ready to re-consider Jesus.

remi4321 said this on November 17, 2015 at 10:35 pm | Reply
- remi
  
  maybe this one will help
  
  micah 5
  
  2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
  
  3 Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.
  
  here we see that the messiah is from “everlasting.” man lives and dies….god is from eternity….jesus said he was the son of god…but also son of man, as he had to be born in this world, leaving heaven to minister to man.
  
  i do not know anyone else who was born of woman in bethlehem but had an eternal , or everlasting nature
  
  not just that. but here it also says he gives up his people (stops what he is doing for them) until all the jews return to israel…
  
  no one else who ever died in history planned to return to earth after the state of Israel was reformed. now the jews are returning, and they are expecting messiah soon
  
  does this help?
  
  Marianne said this on November 17, 2015 at 11:27 pm | Reply
- Maybe you should not reconsider “Jesus”, as the one portrayed to the world by Rome is a false messiah, with a lower case ‘m’. There were many messiahs back then: the Cesar, Serapis Crestus (whose followers were known as crestianus or Christians…), etc. I don’t follow a long haired European- looking man wearing a toga who supposedly did away with the very Torah that He handed to Moses so Israel, His chosen people, could follow. That anomia cristus is a false Messiah!
  
  The real Messiah is a Torah practicing Jew that, like a good Rabbi should, discussed Torah and expanded upon it applying it correctly and not in accordance the traditions of men. He came as Moshiach Ben Yosef and will return as Moshiach Ben David. There are plenty of scriptures in the Tanach that identify Him if one studies them. The Tanach are the only scriptures Yeshua and His disciples used. The apostolic writings were not written till later and were not considered scripture till much later. Yes, there are translation errors but overall if one reads those apostolic writings from a Hebrew point of view (instead of the traditional Greco-Roman view) one realizes they too followed Torah.
  
  Shoshana said this on November 18, 2015 at 7:27 pm | Reply
  - Shoshana- Good comments! I agree 100%
    
    Al said this on November 18, 2015 at 8:04 pm | Reply
Thanks Marianne, but you have several problem with that bible verse. The first one, Jesus never was a ruler. You may say that he will when he comes back, but that does not prove he fulfilled that prophecy. Jesus was not a king nor a ruler.

For the word “everlasting”, you have another big problem, this word is not translated as “everlasting” but “from ancient time” or “of old”. Just like Deuteronomy 32:7

Remember the days of old, … could not be translated as “remember the days of everlasting.

Also, please note that it is his origin that is from of old. This refer, not to the fact that the messiah will necessary be born in Bethlehem or that he was a god in heaven, but that his lineage was/will be from Bethlehem. It only means that he comes from David the Bethlehemite. This has nothing to do with Jesus, especially that he was not a ruler and that he is not a descendant of David as per father line.

remi4321 said this on November 17, 2015 at 11:58 pm | Reply
- he is “to be a ruler”…future tense.
  
  he from everlasting when he is born… the town of bethlehem has not been there from everlasting..yes it is an old town, but it is not THAT old
  
  he has been around, from old…NOT the town
  
  being a god in heaven is a different verse, but you only wanted one verse.
  
  🙂
  
  the challenge with prophecy is it is like a patch work quilt…all the facts are not contained in ONE scripture….god expects us to dig for facts, and think with our brains and spend some time putting it all together.
  
  it is not a fast food effort.where you pay your money and get all you want at the next window
  
  god wants us to study and reflect deeply about what he says.
  
  that is why jesus spoke in parables…to make people think
  
  I wish we could speak in person, with lots of free time
  
  getting all you need in one verse is like trying to learn calculus in one day
  
  Marianne said this on November 18, 2015 at 12:18 am | Reply
Yes of course, this is in the future tense, because it is a prophecy. And to prove that it has come to past, it needs to have actually happened. You may say that Jesus will come back and be a ruler, and that’s fine if you want to believe that, but it has not happened yet and you cannot use that as a prove that Jesus is the messiah. I could say to you, well… I will be a ruler, so I fulfil Psalm 2. That does not mean it is true.

Also, it is not the messiah that is form of old, nor the town, but it’s origin. The original Hebrew is mowtsa’ah. Which means “place of origin”.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H4163&t=KJV

I had been a christian, preaching in my church and knew all about Micah 2, psalm 2, 22, 40, 49, Genesis 3, Isaiah 7, 9, 53, etc. I actually check the prophecy in context and found that most of them have been ripped out of all context to arrive at the conclusion that Jesus was the messiah. I checked the pros and cons of all of them and I had to arrive at the conclusion that Jesus did not fulfil any prophecy and that I believed a lie.

That’s why I say I wanted only one, 1 prophecy that Jesus would have really fulfil would have mean more than 365 shadows or types. When it boils down to the fact that you want to worship the true G-d of the bible, vs a dead man.

Deuteronomy 4 warns the people of Israel, if their forefather did not worship any form, nor Jesus, then if was not acceptable to worship Jesus. They did not have scales in their eyes. Take Peter, or John, if he would have ask “Daddy, did you ever worship Jesus?” Did you pray to the messiah? Is it ok to believe G-d is a man? He would have answered no. It does not matter if Jesus was at Horeb (mount Sinai), the children of Israel were ask not to worship any “hosts”, that include any man.

You saw no form of any kind the day the Lord spoke to you at Horeb out of the fire. Therefore watch yourselves very carefully. Verse 16 includes the hosts of heaven (which includes anything, including humans) that G-d made.

It’s up to you if you want to show me other proofs, but there is none, the L-rd is G-d, not Jesus. The new testament was a fraud…

remi4321 said this on November 18, 2015 at 12:40 am | Reply
I just want to add something, was Bethlehem the least or not the least? Also, why whoever wrote the book of Matthew, did not write anything about the “fact” that this ruler will be from everlasting if it was such an important point of that prophecy? It looks like someone else came with that idea later to support that Jesus was god. It looks like Matthew did not know that Jesus was god, but just the messiah.

remi4321 said this on November 18, 2015 at 5:48 pm | Reply
Hi Marianne, yes I am going to a “messianic” congregation. I was preaching the “d’var” there. The messianic movement is only a Baptist movement in disguised to convert Jews to Christianity, as it is written “To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law.” They still believe in the trinity, as you probably do for the comment of Jesus being from eternity.

“There are plenty of scriptures in the Tanach that identify Him if one studies them.”

Please show them to me. I only need ONE, as for Micah 5, Jesus never has been a ruler, so it does not prove he is the messiah. Do you have something with substance that actually point to Jesus? Micah 5 would have fit if Jesus was a ruler. I will see that it is a prophecy about Jesus when he actually comes and fulfil it, but for now, this is still an unfulfilled prophecy. And we cannot use an unfulfilled prophecy to prove Jesus is the messiah. The messiah will be from the house of David, Jews and Christians believe it, that that prophecy does not point to Jesus.

remi4321 said this on November 18, 2015 at 8:23 pm | Reply
- remi
  
  like i said….everything you want to hear will not be contained in one verse.
  
  it would take several scriptures, or more
  
  Marianne said this on November 18, 2015 at 9:00 pm | Reply
  - Yes, but please provide those verses and scripture showing that Jesus is the messiah, that he is god or that he is the required atonement for sins. When I acknowledge that I believed that worshipping Jesus was Idolatry at my messianic congregation, many people gave me book (and still do). I read Brown, MacArthur and many others. Feel free to give me those verse and we can discus further on the reason why I don’t believe those verses apply to Jesus.
    
    remi4321 said this on November 19, 2015 at 4:41 pm | Reply
    - it takes multiple verses….so I am afraid god disappointed you by not making study easy, and putting everything you wanted into one verse
      
      Marianne said this on November 19, 2015 at 7:28 pm | Reply
      - Exactly, it takes multiple verses and you should look at them in context. Then maybe you would realize that Isaiah 7 does not speak of the virgin birth Jesus. Even the NIV agrees with me that it is not a virgin, and what kind of sign was it for poor Ahab. I’ll give you a sign Ahab, 400 years after you die, a virigin will have a son and his name shall be Jesus. And by that sign you will know that Rezin king of Syria and Pekah the son of Remaliah will not attack you.
        
        Or Daniel 7, as it is written in this article. Have you ever read the Interpretation of that dream? Lest you believe that the beast were actual beast.
        
        Then the kingdom and dominion,
        And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven,
        Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High.
        
        The son of man represent Israel, because in that time, the people, the saints of the Most High, were the Jews, not Jesus’ followers. That also has been changed in the Non-testament. This is consistent to the whole Tanakh.
        
        remi4321 said this on November 19, 2015 at 8:25 pm | Reply
      - Yes, but the warnings against worshipping other gods are clear, easy to see and not vague, everything you prophecies don’t have…
        
        Everybody does what they think is right, I will worship YVHV, you can worship Jesus. I’ll say hi on the other side of the gate. And I thought that God is not the author of confusion! But again, my G-d is not confusing; shadows and types are, especially against clear, easy to perceive and interpret, understandable Bible verses that warn against worshipping other gods or humans.
        
        remi4321 said this on November 19, 2015 at 8:35 pm | Reply
        
        I do not think you understand what I believe.
        
        but first, what do you believe, and we can start from there
        
        Marianne said this on November 19, 2015 at 8:41 pm | Reply
        
        I believe the G-d of the Jewish Bible (Tanakh). I believe that G-d is the only G-d and all others including Jesus are false gods. I believe Jesus death on the cross does not fulfil any sacrifice and putting your faith in a sacrifice that G-d did not prescribe is adding to the Law that Moses wrote. (You shall not add to the book of the Law).
        
        As in the time of Ezekiel, they did not have any sacrifice, G-d explained that ” if a wicked man turns from all his sins which he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is lawful and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die.”
        
        But you will reply “The way of the Lord is not fair.” He cannot forgive without sacrifice. And G-d answer “‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ O house of Israel, is it not My ways which are fair, and your ways which are not fair?” Also, G-d’s ways are higher than man. Men have a hard time to forgive, but not G-d, as Psalm 103 say “For as the heavens are high above the earth, So great is His mercy toward those who fear Him; As far as the east is from the west,
        So far has He removed our transgressions from us.”
        
        I also believe that the Bible does not teach that “without blood there is no atonement for sin”. Nowhere in the Tanakh it say that. This can be clearly seen in Leviticus 5:11 ” ‘But if he is not able to bring two turtledoves or two young pigeons, then he who sinned shall bring for his offering one-tenth of an ephah of fine flour as a sin offering. He shall put no oil on it, nor shall he put frankincense on it, for it is a sin offering. ”
        
        Male lamb was never used as a sin offering, thus Jesus, being the Lamb of god that takes away the sin of the world makes little sense. On the opposite, the Israelites sacrificed lambs (passover sacrifice was not for sin) in Egypt because the Egyptians venerated them as gods.
        
        Now for Isaiah 53, the passage that all Jews fear to read (that’s not true), well read Isaiah 53:1. If you understand who speak, you can understand the whole chapter. To whom as the arm of the L-rd revealed? As per Isaiah 52:10, it is clear that the arm of the L-rd has been revealed to the nations, thus the kings of nations are speaking in Isaiah 53:1. You have to look at the bible verse in context. Also, nowhere else a human sacrifice would take away sin. Because it is a prophecy and G-d forbade sacrificing human. Isaiah 53:4 can also be translated as “But he was pained because of our transgressions, crushed because of our iniquities” This translation is as valid as the other, and it does not necessarily mean that the righteous servant died for someone else sin.
        
        Hope this help to understand what I believe.
        
        remi4321 said this on November 19, 2015 at 9:05 pm | Reply
        
        You may also share what you believe… Trinity, oneness. Was Jesus god, or the son of god? Was he divine? Do you believe in calvinism, arminianism, in between? What about the law? Do you believe in grace alone by faith alone? What is your denomination? Maybe I would also be more able to understand what you believe.
        
        remi4321 said this on November 19, 2015 at 9:14 pm | Reply
        
        read this post:
        
        God according to Jesus
        
        Are you In, Permeated and One with God?
        
        Jesus and His relationship with the Father God
        
        I am getting a lot of slack for it.
        
        I have no denomination. I go by the bible, not what churches may teach as doctrine.
        
        Marianne said this on November 19, 2015 at 11:26 pm | Reply
I meant “Shoshana”… but anybody that want can show which prophecy Jesus really fulfilled…

remi4321 said this on November 18, 2015 at 8:26 pm | Reply
If Jesus / Yeshua is the messiah, (uppercase M or not), it should be clear in the Tanakh. If it is not clear in the Tanakh, you are committing the sin of Idolatry by having “a god/idol/dead man before the True G-d. If Jesus is the messiah, anybody that do not believe in him will go to hell, that includes Jews who love and worship the L-rd and died instead of accepting Jesus.

Please show me the proofs, that’s what Christians usually say “there is tons of proofs” show them to me and let’s see if they are really proofs, or just verses taken out of context.

remi4321 said this on November 18, 2015 at 8:55 pm | Reply
- the point of this post is to show jesus did not fulfill ALL prophecies as messiah.
  
  this is because scripture indicated there would be 2 trips to earth for complete fulfillment
  
  first visit he came as savior to redeem mankind from sin
  
  second visit will be as messianic king.
  
  please read the post
  
  Marianne said this on November 18, 2015 at 11:16 pm | Reply
  - And the point of my comments is to say that Jesus did not fulfil ANY. If he would have fulfil one that only he could have fulfil, that would have been enough. But there is none that he fulfilled when you look at the context of the prophecies that Christians claim refers to Jesus. And I am not talking of Jesus arriving on a donkey in a city. Also those prophecies that Jesus fulfilled needs to be verifiable. That he is king in heaven is not verifiable and do not fulfil the prophecies of Psalm 2 and Micah 5. Finally, you cannot use a verse that the Hebrew is debatable as a proof like Psalm 22. If the meaning of the text is not clear, then people have a reasonable reason to believe it does not refer to Jesus.
    
    The burden of the claim that Jesus is the messiah should be on the Christians, not on the Jews. Jews have serious text talking against the worship of other gods. Jews have prefer dying than worshipping Jesus, that means, that they were right to do so if the prophecies do not show clearly that Jesus was the messiah / god.
    
    If I am right, you are committing idolatry, if I am wrong, then it should be easy enough to see.
    
    Saying that I need the holy spirit to show it to me is not a good argument. This is how I translate that “Only those who believe Jesus is the messiah, can see the proof that Jesus is the messiah”. It means really little sense. New testament clearly state you should not doubt Jesus, thus you only looking for proofs that he is the messiah. The new testament uses scriptures out of context to show that point, also, the NT add many interpretation that are not in the Tanakh. Any time a christian has doubt, his fear of denying Jesus and hell makes him say “I don’t understand, but G-d is right and he sends his messiah, I should not doubt Jesus”
    
    P.S. I have no scales in my eyes, I am not Jewish.
    
    remi4321 said this on November 19, 2015 at 4:58 pm | Reply
    - your website is daily minyon and you are not jewish? 🙂
      
      listen, I am not here to argue with you.
      
      if you want the truth, then search for it yourself.
      
      i am not going to frustrate myself giving you verses and have you reject them based on your opinion
      
      so, basically, jews do not believe jesus is messiah, and christians do.
      
      when messiah shows up, your questions will be all answered
      
      Marianne said this on November 19, 2015 at 7:26 pm | Reply
      - Yes Marianne, I wanted the truth and searched for it. There is always to side on a coin. If you look at Mr Brown and MacArthur and forget the counter argument, then you will always have the answer you want, that Jesus is the messiah. I was on your side and thought that “Jewsforjudaism” just wanted to deceive poor christian. If you are really lead by the holy spirit, you should not be afraid to go and look at what they say concerning your prophecy, unless they are all lies. Then you would be able to decide what makes more sense, no? But of course you won’t, lest you blaspheme the holy spirit or deny Jesus. Just like Jesus said “blessed are those who believe without seeing.”
        
        remi4321 said this on November 19, 2015 at 8:16 pm | Reply
Very through explanation Marianne. Yeshua should be returning soon as Moshiach Ben David and we that are still dispersed on the four corners of the earth will be gathered by His angels ( I even dreamt of this angelical gathering). He is faithful and will keep His word to the last yod even thought there are still some unfulfilled prophecies including one unfolding right now before our eyes, Zechariah 5:3, the flying carpet carrying the curse (alah in Hebrew) to all the earth. We should not fear as long as we remain under the covering of His blood that He shed for us as Yeshua Ben Yosef. He took our curse on the tree and by His stripes we are healed.
That is why He had to come twice.
Proverbs 30 asks what is His name:
Who has ascended to heaven and come down? Who has gathered the wind in his fists? Who has wrapped up the waters in a garment? Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and what is his son’s name? Surely you know!

Shoshana said this on November 19, 2015 at 5:14 pm | Reply
Who has ascended to heaven and come down? This does not talk about G-d, because G-d is in heaven… not on earth. If he would have talked about G-d, then it would have say “Who has descended from heaven and come up. This talks about humans, and the answer is nobody. For the second question, no human ever gather the wind in his fists. For the fourth question, no human has wrapped up the waters in a garment.

But let just say it talks about G-d. What is G-d’s son name? Exodus 4:22! Israel is my first-born son. Yes, Israel is G-d’s son, this verse does not talk about Jesus, if you would have ask anybody in the time of Solomon who was G-d’s son, he would have answered Israel, not Jesus.

remi4321 said this on November 19, 2015 at 5:41 pm | Reply
Remi in Exo 4:22 when Moses goes to Pharaoh he is told to tell HIM that Israel is Yahveh’s firstborn son. On the one hand Pharaoh has to understand the terminology here (would he have understood about Yeshua when not even Moses really did?) and also more importantly, in terms of typology Israel is indeed Yahveh’s first son, of which Yeshua is the First Fruit offering. Israel is the chosen people of Yahveh, the children of the promise given to Abraham, Yisack and Yacob. It also says Yahveh betroths Israel. Surely Yahveh is no man to marry anyone, but His son Yahoshua who came as man did. It was Yeshua’s human back that Moses saw. Yeshua had to come as a man, as second Adam, to fulfil what the first one did not; to pay the bride price and to take the curse or alah upon Him so as to offer us as His bride the protection of a husband. The same protection given to Israel when they stayed in their houses after applying the blood of the lamb on their doorposts. That same covering is applied to us today if we choose to apply the blood of the lamb to our hearts and stay under His covering. This typology is the same one given to Abraham when he and his grown son Isaack (who carried the wood on his back) for the sacrifice went up. Yisack willingly laid down as a sacrifice in obedience to his father Abraham, just as Yeshua did on the tree that took our curse. It was the ram then that took Yisack’s place and just as the lambs were slaughtered in the Temple for the Pesach sacrifice, Yahoshua as the lamb of Yah willingly laid on the tree and took our curse upon Him.

Yosef was “killed” as far as Israel knew but “resurrected” for all intents and purposes when sold to Egypt where he became the right hand of Pharaoh. Nothing was done unless it was done by Yosef. He provided for the famines and provided a hiding place for his people later on. Had he not been in that position Israel would have perished. It was not till Yosef CHOSE to reveal himself to his brothers that Israel repented. He offered Israel sanctuary from the worse plagues or curses that afflicted Egypt.

It is Yeshua who walked in the garden with Adam, it is Yeshua who Abraham bowed down to when he came accompanied by two of His angels, it is Yeshua with whom Yacob wrestled; it has always been Yeshua who, like Yosep did later on, has been an intermediary of the Father, His right executing hand. I say it in the present tense because there is no time or space for Yahoshua and Yahveh as man had to be confined to time and space after the fall. Yahveh and Yahoshua are indeed echad, one UNITY, not yachid. They are one set, one family of which we are to become members if we do accept Yeshua and THEN really follow Him. Yeshua had to come first to fulfill His role as Yeshua Ben Yosef. Even the old rabbis knew Moshiach would come as Moshiach Ben Yosef first then as Moshiach Ben David. Had it not been for the hatred and persecution fomented against Jews by the Roman dictatorship (and now by their subsidiaries) more Jews would have accepted Yeshua as their promised Moshiach. Nevertheless it had to be this way, Israel had to be temporarily blinded so that Israel as Ephraim still living in captivity among the nations would be saved. Then ALL Israel will be saved, Rom 11.

Shoshana said this on November 20, 2015 at 3:57 pm | Reply
- would he have understood about Yeshua when not even Moses really did?
  
  Exactly, if Moses did not understand Yeshua, what makes you think that Agur though about Yeshua. That would make sense, if the first questions refer to G-d that he would be talking about Israel. This could be reasonable to deduce that, thus this passage does not refer to Jesus as apologist say, just because there is the word son…
  
  Yahveh is no man to marry anyone, but His son Yahoshua who came as man did
  
  This is nowhere found in the Tanakh, whe YHVH talks about marring Israel, this is a poetic form of speech. It does not have to be taken literally. He wants to show His love for Israel and what better analogy than marriage and love to show that.
  
  It was Yeshua’s human back that Moses saw.
  
  Why you arrive to that conclusion? There is just no link to arrive at that conclusion, especially that G-d say clearly that “The Lord spoke to you out of the midst of the fire. You heard the sound of the words, but saw no form”. The best you can arrive with is a contradiction in the bible. G-d has a body, G-d has no body, but that does not have to be taken literally. And to worship a foreign god because Moses saw the back of the L-rd when he said he does not have a body does not make sense. Does the earth has a literal face? But the Bible say that the earth has a face (Psalm 104:30, Zeph 1:2). G-d speak to us in ways we can understand. Or maybe the messiah will literally sit on the L-rd right hand? Over literalism can be bad. And again, there is nothing in that passage that talks about Jesus.
  
  Yeshua had to come as a man, as second Adam, to fulfil what the first one did not.
  
  Is that a reference to the word seed in Genesis 3? I don’t see anywhere else in the Tanakh that it say that. The only problem, if you refer to Genesis 3 is, the word “seed” (zara) in Hebrew is never pluralized and always refer to “descendants” plural. That actually makes me doubt that Paul actually knew any Hebrew, or maybe he wanted to deceive his fellow gentiles followers. The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” meaning one person, who is Christ. Also, women can have “zara”, and it does not need to be only a virgin birth. For example, Agar had “zara” when Ismael was born. Of course, the translations translate it as “descendants” for you not to realize that any woman can have “seed”. Again, the Second Adan’s theory can only be found in the new testament.
  
  The same protection given to Israel when they stayed in their houses after applying the blood of the lamb on their doorposts.
  
  This is a “type”, an analogy that works if you believe in the new testament. Nevertheless, Passover lambs were not sacrificed for sins, but Jesus was sacrificed for sins. Also, the ordinance of the Passover were not met by Jesus, thus again, why should I trust something that is totally different. If I roast a lamb on my bar-B-Q, can it be good for anything else than eating. This is the same kind of types. You may create those king of types with anything. Paul, in a matter of fact compared Jesus with the “rock” in the wilderness… It does not show anything though.
  
  Again, the sacrifice of Isaac is a similar case. The story has some similitudes to the one of Jesus. We could also take the story for what is though in the Tanakh. Abraham had a test of obedience, and as the Tanakh said “They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire–something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind.”
  
  And again, there is similitude with Joseph. But what close the border is this “Joseph was never worshiped as a god”. Those types of shadow cannot go against a direct command from G-d not to worship idols and created things like humans.
  
  “it is Yeshua who Abraham bowed down to when he came accompanied by two of His angels”, I guess that the author of Hebrew was wrong then… (Hebrew 13:2). The word angel can be translated better as “messenger” A messenger is not the same as the King. Nevertheless, if the messenger say “I ordain this or that” then the people know that the king is speaking. So that is a better explanation and that’s how the author of Hebrew understood that passage. Unless you want to say that Jesus had several virgin birth!
  
  Jacob wrestled with G-d. Really, Jacob rested with a messenger (angel) Hosea 12:4.
  
  Yahveh and Yahoshua are indeed echad. I just going to say if anybody wants to read a plurality here, ok. But if you read at the word for the first time, you would understand it as “one”. And echad is just that “one”. You may say that a day has a morning and an evening, but what is the meaning of the sentence there is it is not to warn against worshiping another god. What would have YHVHV had to say to actually say that he is not a trinity?
  
  more Jews would have accepted Yeshua as their promised Moshiach. I think that they refuse to bow to another god because it is clear in the scriptures. Those who come to believe in Jesus just ignore most of the warning for the Tanakh…
  
  temporarily blinded. It’s one of the two, or all Jews are blind, or you follow a lie, but as a non-jew, the warning are still clear and your proof are still “shadows” and “types”. Jews worship Hashem, Christians worship Jesus.
  
  Then ALL Israel will be saved, Rom 11. So you do believe in replacement theology… If Israel, to be saved needs to believe in Jesus, what’s the difference?
  
  remi4321 said this on November 20, 2015 at 6:50 pm | Reply
Amein Marianne, Yeshua is about to return, let’s not be caught unprepared like the foolish virgins without enough oil in their lamps. When Yeshua returns then all Israel will look upon the pierced one…

Shoshana said this on November 20, 2015 at 4:03 pm | Reply
Remi reading Marianne’s posts I don’t think she is a trinitarian (forgive me if I am wrong Marianne). The trinity is a pagan concept, just as the word God is too of pagan origins, along with idolatry. That includes the symbols of the cross (found in the Egyptian priesthood garments), the supposedly “star of David” (found in ancient pagan temples), the pagan deity moon symbol of the curse (alah), even the kippa or whatever variation of it used by Jews, Muslims, and Catholic alike is of absolutely pagan origins. Man has been fooled by Satan in countless ways but then again he has had much practice since he/it led the heavenly revolt.

Shoshana said this on November 20, 2015 at 4:13 pm | Reply
- Can a man be saved, according to you if he believes in the trinity? Then man is saved by his understanding of who Jesus/god is… We are all in big trouble if it’s the case. lol. I agree that the trinity is not right, as you already know, but then we are stuck with polytheism. The trinity was a way to get ride of the problem that “G-d is One”, and only G-d can save, and G-d will not share his Glory. If he is not a trinity, you accept the worship of someone else that is not G-d, then you do something that goes against the Tanakh.
  
  If jesus is not god, then why did you say that he is the one that shows himself in that the passages that you previously mentioned?
  
  remi4321 said this on November 20, 2015 at 7:08 pm | Reply
The verses about HaMoshiach in Tanakh is HaMoshiachs own plans. Our father Hashem has other plans for his son. HaMoshiach is the archangel Gavriel and he shall be in heaven and not on earth according to Talmud about Hamoshiach.

Defender of the seven sacraments said this on November 20, 2015 at 6:40 pm | Reply
- Theories are useful, but unless you have proof, then it is only theory, not fact. Do you have actual fact that say Jesus was Gabriel? Or in the New testament or in the Tanakh?
  
  remi4321 said this on November 20, 2015 at 6:59 pm | Reply
  - Talmud tells us that HaMoshiach is an angel.
    
    Defender of the seven sacraments said this on November 21, 2015 at 3:53 pm | Reply
    - But you don’t believe in the Talmud….
      
      remi4321 said this on November 23, 2015 at 4:42 pm | Reply
Remi Yeshua is not affected by time and space as we are. That is part of the fallen nature of Adam; his life was cut short and died so to speak. When Yeshua resurrected He had the body that we will have when He returns, which is the body Adam had before he chose to follow the deceiver that took with him 1/3 of the angels and still deceives many.

Yeshua appeared to Abraham at least twice, and to Yacob, and to Moses with whom He spoke panim to panim. Had it been Yah Father that Moses saw he would have died. You may choose to believe it or not but a careful study will prove it. As to your claim “Jews worship Hashem, Christians worship Jesus.” Most Jews have been deceived into believing it is sacrilege to say His name when in reality Scripture tells us to praise His name. His name is not “The Name” (Hashem) or a mere pagan title of “God”, nor is it Allah (curse); His name is YHVH, Yahveh, and His son’s name is Yeshua, not ieosus or “Jesus”. “Christian” comes from crestianus, the name given to the followers of the pagan deity Serapis Crestus and applied by the hateful Romans to the Jewish disciples of Messiah Yeshua. All of them lived as practicing Jews, not as “Christians”, that came later with the formation of the roman religion who amalgamated many forms of paganism under one umbrella. The ‘Jesus’ Christians have for the most part is a false Christ made in Rome, not the real Messiah at all. Yeshua did not come to do away with Yahveh’s teachings or Torah, which is His own; He came to give it its true meaning demonstrating how to go about it and fulfilling PARTS of it that had to do with His sacrifice as Moshiach Ben Yosef.

Shoshana said this on November 21, 2015 at 10:43 pm | Reply
- This is Christian doctrine. Nowhere it said it was Jesus was that angel of Genesis 18. If you would worship Nebuchadnezzar, you could say, look it’s not wrong to worship HIM (Nebu), listen Genesis 18. All those passages talk about Nebu! Or Maybe it was Antiochus Epiphanes? But if that allows you to fell OK with your Idolatry, that’s Ok. Read Deuteronomy 4, and you will see that G-d does not have a form and he is not a created thing like your Jesus.
  
  Again, if you follow types and shadow, it’s only deceit that you follow. Jesus was not in the Tanakh. All you uses is conspiracy theory types of conclusion. G-d has no form, G-d showed himself to Abraham. Jesus was that person. Joseph was rejected by his brother, Jesus is the new “Joseph”. Abraham wanted to sacrifice his son, THE SON is the real sacrifice. Please read the story for what it is and stop putting Jesus in it. It’s not that I am blind, it’s just that there is not solid substance here.
  
  remi4321 said this on November 23, 2015 at 4:53 pm | Reply
Remi Jesus is not His name, unless you refer to the false christ peddled by Rome… Yeshua is mentioned as the angel of Yahveh and more specifically as man when reference is made to Him as Elohim. In Gen 32:28-30 Yacob struggled with an angel of Yahveh in some versions a man in others and it is then identified as Elohim. You are right no man has seen Yahveh and lived but Abraham, Yacob, and Moses did. Why? Because they saw Yeshua who was born of man as second Adam is not confined to time and space so 2018 years ago when He took our curse (alah in Hebrew) upon the tree (not a pagan cross) is as if He did it today or tomorrow and as if He did it right after Adam fell.

Gen 32:28-30
28 “The man said, “Your name will no longer be Jacob but Israel [He Struggles With God], because you have struggled with Elohim and with men—and you have won.”
29 Jacob said, “Please tell me your name.”
The man answered, “Why do you ask for my name?” Then he blessed Jacob there. 30 So Jacob named that place Peniel [Face of God], because he said, “I have seen Elohim face to face, but my life was saved.”

Zechariah 6:12-13 speaks of the MAN whose name is the branch. It speaks of the man, not Israel. Same as in Proverbs 30:4 where is asking both the name of the Father (wrongly suppressed by rabbis) and the name of the SON.

Proverbs 30:4
“Who has gone up to heaven and come down? (Obviously talking about a single person)
Who has gathered the wind in the palm of his hand?
Who has wrapped water in a garment?
Who has set up the earth from one end to the other? (As the duo of Elohim did in Gen 1)
What is his name or the name of his son? (Singular, in context this can only be Yeshua)
Certainly, you must know!”

Zechariah 6:12-13
12 “And say to him, ‘Thus says Yahweh of hosts: “Look, here is a man whose name is Branch, and from his place he will sprout, and he will build the temple of Yahweh. 13 And he will build the temple of Yahweh, and he will bear majesty and will sit and rule on his throne. And he shall be a priest on his throne, and the counsel of peace will be between the two of them.”

Shoshana said this on November 25, 2015 at 1:41 am | Reply
- shoshana
  
  proverbs 10 is good
  
  zech 6 not fulfilled yet, unless the temple mentioned is our spirits
  
  however, mentioning “two of them” helps
  
  Marianne said this on November 25, 2015 at 9:08 am | Reply
- Hi Shashana, concerning your comment “Jesus is not His name”. The new testament was written in Greek, and they translated it as “Ιησούς” which is Iisoús. The English word is Jesus, and each language have a different way of pronouncing it. It could be that his real name is Yeshua, or Yehoshua, but the truth is, it is just a guess. Yeshua was a very common name in the second temple time. So, it would not be surprising. Some people call him Jesus, some call him other things.
  
  They all refer to a man that lived in Israel 2000 year ago. And whatever name you want to call him Yeshua/Jesus, et al., they all refer to the false christ/messiah peddled by the new testament.
  
  remi4321 said this on November 25, 2015 at 4:56 pm | Reply
12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the Lord of hosts, and saith, Behold, the man whose name is the [m]Branch, and he shall grow [n]up out of his place, and he shall [o]build the Temple of the Lord.
13 Even he shall build the Temple of the Lord, and he shall bear the [p]glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne, and he shall be a Priest upon his throne, and the counsel of peace shall be between [q]them both.”

Zechariah 6:12-13 calls the MAN Yeshua the Branch. People that dont want to see that wont. Zac 5:3 is being fulfilled right now…

Shoshans said this on November 25, 2015 at 2:56 pm | Reply
- Hi Shshana, it does not matter if the person is called Yeshua. You have to take it into context. It talks about Yeshua the high priest in the time of Zechariah. You may confirm that by continuing reading. The crowns (yes there is more than one) will be given to Heldai, Tobijah, Jedaiah and Hen son of Zephaniah as a memorial in the temple of the Lord. This does not refer to Yeshua (Jesus).
  
  remi4321 said this on November 25, 2015 at 4:47 pm | Reply
Remi the problem is there is the real practicing Jew who followed Torah the right way and there is the false christus romanus shaped after Serapis Crestus whose followers were known as crestianus

Shoshana said this on November 27, 2015 at 2:51 am | Reply
- Hi Shashana, there is real Jews who followed Torah the right way and don’t need Jesus for atonement. (thus Jesus is not the way the truth and the life) And there are those who believe in this new arrival of Jesus. The new testament is false and full of contradictions. That’s why they arrive with so many different interpretations. I understand that you believe that the law is not done away with. But you can only do that by omitting those bible verses that contradict your belief.
  
  “So then, rthe law was our sguardian until Christ came, tin order that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,”
  
  “by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in uordinances, that he might create in himself one vnew man in place of the two, so making peace.”
  
  “Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.”
  
  Now there is other Bible verse that say the opposite and I agree with you. The law as per the Tanakh is forever.
  
  “This day shall be for you a memorial day, and you shall keep it as a feast to the LORD; throughout your generations, as a statute forever.”
  
  So, that’s why so many people arrive at different conclusion.
  
  But one thing I know, there is no reason to believe the Greek testament because it contradict the Tanakh. G-d would never required someone else to be the saviour or to require worship.
  
  And if you want to insist that Jesus is not G-d, that’s fine, but know that 98% of the people believe he is and if you want to worship a second god (angel), it is even worst than believing Jesus is G-d and make an idol (jesus Body) out of the true G-d.
  
  remi4321 said this on November 27, 2015 at 5:09 pm | Reply
Remi “Jesus” as most of the world knows him is NOT the real Yeshua but in fact a Roman deity fashioned after Serapis Crestus whose followers were known as crestianus or Christians… This is why ‘churchianity’ is so far off the mark today; they often follow another cristus for the most part. The real Yeshua was very much a Torah observant Rabbi; He showed the CORRECT way to follow HIS own teachings or Torah that He Himself handed to Moshe so Yah’s chosen people, Israel, would follow. You can’t get to Yahveh on your own merits, all our best deeds are but filthy rags in His face. There is but One Way between man and Yahveh and that is Yeshua who first came as Moshiach Ben Yosef to pay the bride’s price and take the curse (alah in Hebrew) upon Him and will soon return with his army of angels as Moshiach Ben David. The wheat is maturing (learning and submitting themselves to Torah according to The Way) and the esav or tares are showing more and more their characteristics with increased boldness. Unfortunately many that are not real tares are being swept into acting like tares following the Adversary of old who seeks to destroy them along with the rest of the wheat. Satan has lied to many making them believe good is evil and evil is good and even that they have to gain ‘brownie points’ by in effect following the supplanter’s instructions to kill and maim. His plan will be revealed soon when the Jewish Messiah Yeshua returns and many will cry and repent…

Shoshana said this on December 13, 2015 at 4:38 pm | Reply
Hi Shoshana, please stop taking verese out of context:

Since ancient times no one has heard,
no ear has perceived,
no eye has seen any God besides you,
who acts on behalf of those who wait for him.
5 You come to the help of those who gladly do right,
who remember your ways.
But when we continued to sin against them,
you were angry.
How then can we be saved?

So accodring to verse 4, there is no other gods (A.K.A Jesus) who acts on behalf of those who wait for him

Then it continues on verse 5. It says that G-d helps those who do right. Who are those according to you? Nobody?

Putting your trust in a sacrifice that was not in the Law is useless!

G-d does not requires a sacrifice that was nowhere to be found in the Torah.

remi4321 said this on December 14, 2015 at 4:48 pm | Reply
- remi
  
  you are quoting isaiah….at that time , messiah had not come, so what is said is true.
  
  blood sacrifices were required throughout the entire old testament.
  
  animals were used ….there was no human pure enough to die for their own sins, or anyone else’s.
  
  jesus however was pure, and ended the sacrifice for sins with his own blood
  
  the father in heaven is god, jesus is the son of god
  
  isaiah 53
  
  …10 But the LORD was pleased To crush Him, putting Him to grief; If He would render Himself as a guilt offering, He will see His offspring, He will prolong His days, And the good pleasure of the LORD will prosper in His hand.
  
  11 As a result of the anguish of His soul, He will see it and be satisfied; By His knowledge the Righteous One, My Servant, will justify the many, As He will bear their iniquities.
  
  12 Therefore, I will allot Him a portion with the great, And He will divide the booty with the strong; Because He poured out Himself to death, And was numbered with the transgressors; Yet He Himself bore the sin of many, And interceded for the transgressors.
  
  Marianne said this on December 14, 2015 at 5:29 pm | Reply
  - That is right Marianne, Isa 53 nails it, specially v 11 “the Righteous One, My Servant, will justify the many, As He will bear their iniquities.” Only Yeshua could do this and has done it for all as His sacrifice transcends time and space which means it applies all the way to Adam and Eve… It is finished!
    
    Shoshana said this on December 14, 2015 at 10:45 pm | Reply
    - Poor Daniel, you were born too soon. 😦
      
      remi4321 said this on December 14, 2015 at 10:59 pm | Reply
      - Remi as I said to Marianne, Yeshua’s sacrifice transcends time and space as neither He nor Yahveh are subject to time and space. Therefore His eternal sacrifice covers all the way from Adam, and yes it applied to Daniel too.
        
        Shoshana said this on December 15, 2015 at 4:33 pm | Reply
        
        Yes of course, any verse to prove your theory?
        
        And by the way, a better translation of Isaiah 53 would be: “But he was pained because of our transgressions, crushed because of our iniquities; the chastisement of our welfare was upon him, and with his wound we were healed.”
        
        No substitutionary atonement there. Do you have any other bible verse that proves that someone else can take your sins away?
        
        Let me put it clear, the soul that sins will die, G-d does not put your sins on anybody else. That would be perversion of justice. And that’s what the Bible say…
        
        “Yet you ask, ‘Why does the son not share the guilt of his father?’ Since the son has done what is just and right and has been careful to keep all my decrees, he will surely live. The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them.
        
        Daniel was righteous (not sinless) by is own merit…
        
        remi4321 said this on December 15, 2015 at 5:12 pm | Reply
Exept for poor Job, Daniel and Noah, who were extremely wicked, because they never had their sins forgiven …

even if these three men–Noah, Daniel and Job–were in it, they could save only themselves by their righteousness, declares the Sovereign LORD.

Daniel was in the exile and could not offer any blood sacrifice for his sins. Neither Noah nor Job ever offer a sin sacrifice.

He will see His offspring, yes of course, Jesus had a lot of children…

remi4321 said this on December 14, 2015 at 6:25 pm | Reply
- remi
  
  you are nuts 🙂
  
  Marianne said this on December 14, 2015 at 8:47 pm | Reply
Thanks.

remi4321 said this on December 14, 2015 at 8:51 pm | Reply
I know, they must have trusted in the future messiah who would die for their sins. How convenient even if it was not in the text…

remi4321 said this on December 14, 2015 at 9:16 pm | Reply
You just said it Remi, righteousness by following Yah’s holy Torah ( the only heavenly rules for living that the Creator has given man) does not take care of the sin issue that we inherited because of the curse ( or alah) that we got by listening to the cursed one, satan. That is why from the start we see Abel sacrificing sheep, because Yeshua sacrificed sheep to temporarily clothe Adam till the fullness of the promise came. That is why Abraham sacrificed a ram to take the place of Yikzak. When the promised one came He replaced all that with Himself.

Shoshana said this on December 15, 2015 at 7:38 pm | Reply
Joseph stated that, “God sent me before you to preserve for you a remnant in the earth, and to keep you alive by a great deliverance” (Genesis 45:7).

Shoshana said this on December 16, 2015 at 12:23 am | Reply
Joseph was not a god-man/angel and did not want anybody to worship him and venerate him as a god…

remi4321 said this on December 16, 2015 at 12:35 am | Reply
After reading the first paragraph I realized that jesus did not fall short of the prophecies. the people at the time just could not understand what he was doing. How could a prince of peace overthrow kingdoms. He is the portion of God/Gods kingdom that is to rule and teach. The way of overthrowing kingdoms is threw death of human coveting. Jesus was simply Human. And the army he leads is spiritual. The Idea of fulfilment of every prophesy being fulfilled before death was an assumption by the jews not in scripture… I haven’t researched this but even if it did say this, he is not dead by any means to christians and fulfilment is still in the works why, cause we all want to fulfill our own lives first. he was observant of jewish law but that didn’t mean he had to bow to the ones that needed fixing. all the other ones he fulfilled hands down, Jesus was the one, anyone else may look promising but will fall to pieces miserably after a time. He was and will be the only one that never had ulterior motives selfishness or coveting as reason to rule. I hope this brings someone clarity. Amen

Chris said this on February 10, 2016 at 8:43 am | Reply