First 4 Seals of Revelation

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Do the 4 colors of the seals have any modern significance?

Guest Author:    D.J. Maxwell

An Examination of the First 4 Seals of Revelation

A few months ago, I was thinking over the role the King of Jordan was playing in resent Middle-East peace talks, his royal ancestry and potential political influence in the region, when I came across a brief history of Arab Rebellion. This rebellion, coming at the end of the Ottoman Empire, birthed several nation states. But, what literally caught my eye was the flag of the Arab Rebellion.

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It is a seemingly simple emblem of an aggressive political movement. But, emblems are created with a purpose – honor history, rally for a common cause and project a vision for the future. This leads to the questions:

Why these 4 colors? What is the history behind them? What is the common cause? What is the vision for the future?

A second look at these colors brought this to mind: the colors of the four horses sent out with rider and seals in Revelations 6:2-8.

“And I looked, and behold, a white horse. He who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.

When He opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying, "Come and see." Another horse, fiery red, went out. And it was granted to the one who sat on it to take peace from the earth, and that people should kill one another; and there was given to him a great sword.

When He opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, "Come and see." So I looked, and behold, a black horse, and he who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, "A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not harm the oil and the wine."

When He opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, "Come and see." So I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth” (NKJV).

Is it just a coincidence that each of the 4 horses in John’s revelation are given a specific color (white, “fiery red”, black and “pale”)? The identification of horse an rider are sent out with specific objectives. Could it be that there is a correlation or relevance with 4 colors representing the great Arabic political, military, social and religious powers throughout the history of Islam, known as Caliphates?

These questions are briefly explored with information obtained from multiple sources. In light of current events and the coming “Beast” who will hold authority over world commerce, command vast military power and establish a one-would religion worshiping him as the supreme deity – there may be something to learn in anthropology and history of Islam and the Caliphates.

The Four Seals

1st Seal

Rev 6:2. “…white horse: w/bow [strength], w/ crown given to him, conquering and to conquer [prevail/gain the victory].”

§ Bow: a weapon without the arrows (political power/ authority)

§ Crown: kingdom and positional power given [not earned]

§ Conquering and to conquer: seeking to prevail and gain the victory; to mastering and then to master the world.

§ The Arab Rebellion flag, horizontal bands of white, represents the Umayyad Caliphate.

2nd Seal

Rev 6:4. “…fiery red, was granted take peace from the earth [his particular region/terrene], and that people should kill one another [rebellion]; and there was given to him a great sword” (Amplified Bible).

§ Takes peace from “earth” – correctly translated – “region/terrene”

§ “Rebellion” – consider Egypt, Libya, Syria, and other countries in the “region”.

§ Great Sword – great strife

§ A red isosceles triangle on the hoist side, representing the Great Arab Revolt and the color banner for the Khawarij Caliphate.

3rd Seal

Rev 6:5-6. “…black horse, a pair of scales…"A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not harm the oil and the wine."

Pair of scale – economic / weight and measures

A representation of high inflation.

“Oil” represents the Holy Spirit and those believers that are “anointed”. “Wine” represents the New Covenant and these are “true” believers in Christ Jesus as Lord. These are not harmed by the events.

Black representing the Abbasid Caliphate and it the banner of Muhammad

4th Seal

Rev 6:8. “…pale horse, Death, and Hades followed with him…power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth.”

§ Pale: [Original Word χλωρός, ά, όν.] Part of Speech: Adjective. Transliteration: chlóros. Definition: green, pale green.

§ Sword – war and violence

§ Death, and Hades (demonic spirits) follow after the 4th horse

§ Hunger, with death, famine /shortages

§ Green is considered the traditional color of Islam. Green represented paradise (the Persian word for garden) to desert-dwelling Bedouin tribes when they gathered at an oasis.

§ Green represents the Fatimid Caliphate

§ Muslim nations/ centers of religious culture cover ¼ of today’s population (Indonesia, Pakistan to the Middle East and North Africa. Culture centers within Europe).

Arabic Flag Colors

The Arab Rebellion flag, holds three equal horizontal bands of white, representing the Umayyad Caliphate, black representing the Abbasid Caliphate and it is the banner of Muhammad, and green, representing the Fatimid Caliphate and also the color representing “paradise” in Islamic culture; a red isosceles triangle on the hoist side, representing the Great Arab Revolt and the color banner for the Khawarij Caliphate.

A Caliphate is the Islamic form of government representing the political unity and leadership of the Muslim world. The Caliph’s position is based on the notion of a successor to the Islamic prophet Muhammad’s political authority (Academic, 2000-2010). Caliphate is also referred to or described as an empire by some historians.

All four colors are incorporated into the flags of Jordan, Kuwait, Palestinian Authority, Sahrawi Republic, Sudan, Libya and the United Arab Emirates. A sub-set of the Pan-Arab colors are the Arab Liberation colors, in which green is less significant. These appear on the flags of Egypt, Iraq, Syria, and Yemen.

One or more of these colors are represented or applied within the flags of all Islamic states in the Middle-East, from West Africa and to Pakistan.

White Banner

White represents the Banner of Umayyad Caliphate (661-750). This “empire” was centered in Damascus. The Umayyad caliphate, at its greatest extent, extended more than five million square miles, making it the fifth largest contiguous empire ever to exist.

The Umayyads "regarded themselves as God’s representatives at the head of the community and saw no need to share their religious power with, or delegate it to, the emergent class of religious scholars” (The First Dynasty of Islam).

The Umayyad caliphate was marked both by territorial expansion and by the administrative and cultural problems that such expansion created. Despite some notable exceptions, the Umayyads tended to favor the rights of the old Arab families and in particular their own, over those of newly converted Muslims (mawali). Therefore they held to a less universalist conception of Islam than did many of their rivals. As G.R. Hawting has written, "Islam was in fact regarded as the property of the conquering aristocracy." (G.R. Hawting, "The first dynasty of Islam: the Umayyad caliphate, AD 661-750" (London, 2000), 4.)

According to one common view, the Umayyads transformed the caliphate from a religious institution to a dynastic one. However, the Umayyad caliphs do seem to have understood themselves as the representatives of God on earth, and to have been responsible for the "definition and elaboration of God’s ordinances, or in other words the definition or elaboration of Islamic law." [P. Crone and M. Hinds, "God’s caliph: religious authority in the first centuries of Islam" (Cambridge, 1986), p. 43.]

During the period of the Umayyads, Arabic became the administrative language. State documents and currency was issued in the language. Mass conversions brought a large influx of Muslims to the caliphate. The Umayyads also constructed famous buildings such as the Dome of the Rock at Jerusalem, and the Umayyad Mosque at Damascus.

It is notable that the Umayyad caliphs referred to themselves, not as "khalifat rasul Allah" ("successor of the messenger of God," the title preferred by the tradition) but rather as "khalifat Allah" ("deputy of God"). The distinction seems to indicate that the Umayyads "regarded themselves as God’s representatives at the head of the community and saw no need to share their religious power with, or delegate it to, the emergent class of religious scholars." (G.R. Hawting, "The first dynasty of Islam: the Umayyad caliphate, AD 661-750" (London, 2000), 13.)

Modern Arab nationalism regards the period of the Umayyads as part of the Arab Golden Age which it sought to emulate and restore. This is particularly true of Syrian nationalists and the present-day state of Syria, centered like that of the Umayyads on Damascus.

For centuries the Hashemite family (King of Jordan) has been the traditional keepers of the Holy Muslim Cities and being descendent from the family of Prophet Muhammad, the Hashemite hold a strong prestige over all the Arab Nation. Politically, the Hashemite are known to be moderate. King of Jordan is a direct descendent to the Prophet Muhammad and his kingdom is at peace today. This family they trace their clan back to the Umayyads.

`Abdu’l-Bahá, asserts that the Umayyad dynasty was the "great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads" referred to in the Book of Revelation and that the Umayyads "rose against the religion of Muhammad and against the reality of Ali". [Abdu’l-Bahá. 1908. Some Answered Questions. page 69). Throughout the Occident and the Orient, `Abdu’l-Bahá was known as an ambassador of peace, a champion of justice, and the leading exponent of a “new faith”.

Black Banner

Abassids brought about a dynamic fusion of Persian and Semitic culture centered in Babylon (758-1258). When the ‘Abassids took power, the center of Islamic culture shifted from the Semitic world in Arabia and Syria to the Iranian or Persian world in Iraq, developing the Shi`ite movement.

The ‘Abassids were descendants of al-Abbas, the paternal uncle of Muhammad. Like the followers of ‘Ali and the Kharijites, the ‘Abassids believed that the spirit of Islam had been betrayed by the secular-minded Umayyads—as relatives of Muhammad, their pietism had a concrete character to it” (The America-Israeli Cooperative Enterprise).

Red Banner

The Kharijites (690- 730) set of power was within the city of Basra, Iraq. The Caliphate thought that the outcome of a conflict can only be decided in battle and not in negotiations. This is known as a group seeking to overthrow the true appointed Imam (leader) upon whose leadership the majority is in agreement is called a Khariji. The Kharijites movement continued to be significant on the Persian Gulf coast in the ninth through the eleventh century. It continued to play an important political role in eastern Arabia, North Africa, and eastern Africa. Over time the views of the movement moderated

Green Banner

The Fatimid Caliphate (909-1171) ruled over varying areas of North Africa, Egypt, the Levant, and even Sicily and Yemen. It is considered by some to be the fourth and "final" "pure" Arab caliphate. Fatimid are regarded as holding religious tolerance towards non-Ismaili sects of Islam as well as towards Jews, Maltese Christians and Coptic Christians. There set of power was Cairo.

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References

‘Abdu’l-Bahá: the Center of the Covenant. http://info.bahai.org/abdulbaha-center-of-covenant.html

The America-Israeli Cooperative Enterprise. http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/Umayyad.html

G.R. Hawting, The first dynasty of Islam: the Umayyad caliphate, AD 661–750 (London, 2000).


37 Responses to “First 4 Seals of Revelation”

  1. While the history of the caliphate was interesting, I don’t see how it relates to the book of Revelation. Were the first 4 seals fulfilled by these ancient groups? Are the countries occupying their land today supposed to fulfill them? Are the Muslim countries able to wipe out ⅔ the earth’s population? Most of them are still in turmoil and can barely run their own governments, so how will they take over the planet? Are these the people who are supposed to unify the worlds currency and set up the banking and internet structure to RFID chip everyone on the planet?
    It might be an interesting exercise to try to connect some dots here but the odds that any of this will ever come to pass is like nil.
    And I severely doubt that biblical colors are related to modern flag colors. The first horse is white because it represents the false christ. The second is red because it represents the blood of war. (Same reason the red planet Mars is named after the Roman god of war. The third horse is black which represents death (from famine) and the grave (often mistranslated as hell). The fourth horse is called pale which means “sickly” as it represents pestilences.
    These are all clear and unmistakable and there is really no need to complicate the matter by coming up with elaborate color schemes and historical entities. I just don’t believe that the colors are supposed to double as clues to who is going to start the war, not that they won’t be involved, especially in a world-war, which is what I am expecting. (Anything less than WWII would not be worth mentioning).
    Perhaps some more details as to how all of these color connections are supposed to unfold in the near future might help. After all, isn’t that what we are all trying to figure out here when it comes to any kind of prophecy?
    Be bold – give us a prediction or two so we can be prepared for it and see if it unfolds as you have laid it out. Also it might help us figure out the actual relevance of the colored caliphates. I’m still confused.🙂

  2. James, your postings on other pages presents intelligent, well throughout positions. So, now you fall back on old school associations: black is death and red is blood. White is what? Pale is sick? Disappointing, as I was looking forward to your reading your biblical scholarship. I do enjoy and learn from reading your posts, so please play along. I only wish we could do this after a word of prayer, over coffee and with a laugh.

    Where in the bible does it say anything that the color white depicts or represents evil, sin, hate, the devil, Satan, the anti-Christ or Lucifer? There are no such connection, association or word pictures. Please remove the white horse as symbolism of the anti-Christ (man) or the anti-Christ (spirit).

    Roll the dice and try again.

    Leaving white – let’s turn to red.

    Breaking down the word “red” as written in the King James, (James, do you read the NIV?), Strong’s definition, G4450, is “fiery red”. A little deeper into the definition and we read “like a flame”.

    That is not blood red. Please pick up another card and go back two spaces.

    The Khawarij Caliphate’s (red banner) tradition or historical fingerprint on Islam and the “region or terrene” is very specific and significant. They took leadership positions – not by negotiations or voting – but by conflict or “rebellion”.

    Here is more information to support this “fiery red” and very “rebellious” group matches up with this particular horse in Revelation 6.

    “The Khariji theology was a radical fundamentalism, with uncompromised observance of the Quran in defiance of corrupt authorities. Khariji considered moderate Muslims to be ‘hypocrites’ and ‘unbelievers’ who could be killed with impunity. The Khariji held that only the most pious members of the community could be entrusted with political power” (ShaikhSiddiqui.com. 2005).

    Reads like Arab Spring to me.

    What is Arab Spring accomplishing everywhere there is been a “rebellion” of the people? Egypt, Libya, and other nation states in the “region” are in “rebellion” and bringing Quran based government/leadership on steroids. Obama and Hillary say thr people coming together to speak up for self-governance. Rubbish. It is the brotherhhood – a Caliphate movement.

    So, re-read Rev 6:4 “…fiery red, was granted take peace from the earth [his particular region/terrene], and that people should kill one another [rebellion]; and there was given to him a great sword” (Amplified Bible).

    Thoughts? Your move.

  3. WOW….

    Interesting about the colors of the Islamic flag and the horses….

    Thee is not one doubt in my mind that Islam is antichrist…

    • It was a WOW to me too!

      Now, consider the Green color (pale) as it is considered the traditional color of Islam. Green represented paradise (the Persian word for garden) to desert-dwelling Bedouin tribes when they gathered at an oasis. But, the pale horse brings destruction hunger, with death, famine /shortages. It is not a culture of “paradise” but of destruction.

      This green banner, the Fatimid clan, are regarded as holding religious tolerance towards non-Ismaili sects of Islam as well as towards Jews, Maltese Christians and Coptic Christians.

      Seems like a good entry point for a man to bring peace to “world religions” but Death and Hates (evil spirits) follow after him.

  4. Hello!

    Of course the artists of flags will have those colors to have some kind of symbolic meaning. However I do not find any biblical or Quran base to those colors. Of course colors have got different meaning in different countries. In China white is the color of sorrow and funeral if I remember right. And black is color of hope?

    Greetings!

    • Wow you get to the point quick. Nice.

      Me, it takes a thousand words😉.

      I’ve posted a couple of times (see below) with some new information. Look down a few posts and you’ll see my thousand word essays.

      As for the black horse – I’ll get to that bad boy later.

      It is not so much about the color meaning but the connection between the color horse and the four colors that represent the history of the Islamic people.

      Except in the case of “pale green” which is the universal color of “paradise” in Islam. That is very direct in terms of culture and color and the seal (events/objectives) that comes with the “pale” (green) horse. Just a coincidence, right?

      What is interesting to me to find the Caliphate periods. 4 very separate groups/government/empires and each one has a specific color banner.

      Not 5 or 3 but 4 Caliphates. Each one had a banner respersenation different from the others.

      These seem to match up with 4 horses come out of the barn from somewhere and the first horse coming out is white.

      The first banner was white and the first horse is white. Not the second or third. Both are white. What are the odds?

      The four color banners did not include purple, yellow, orange or blue. But, the banners are white, red, black and green. The same as the horse colors. What are the odds?

      Then, connect the color Caliphate banner and with the horse color/seal (objectives/events) and it is really interesting.

      White banner = central government, language, religion and a very large territory – “political and strategic”. (What is the seal all about?)
      Red banner = “rebellion”. (What does the seal bring?)
      Green = “paradise”. (This seal is not bringing about paradise.)
      I’ll write more later next week.

      Remember, Caliphate: the Islamic form of government representing the political unity and leadership of the Muslim world. The Caliph’s position is based on the notion of a successor to the Islamic prophet Muhammad’s political authority. There are only 4 of these in this histroy of Islam.

      What are the odds? 4 horses (white, “firey red”, black, “pale” (green) and 4 Caliphates with banners of white, red, black and the last one is green.

      The last horse is “pale” (green) and the last of the 4 Caliphates’ banners is green.

      The connetions are very interesting and the odds of some of these connections matching up are quite high.

      Please read what I posted in the past few hours and maybe that will address your posting and gives me more word/lines to explain.

      Blessings to you.

  5. DJ…’Where in the bible does it say anything that the color white depicts or represents evil, sin, hate, the devil, Satan, the anti-Christ or Lucifer? There are no such connection, association or word pictures. Please remove the white horse as symbolism of the anti-Christ (man) or the anti-Christ (spirit).’

    Compare the rider and horse of Rev. 6:2 to the Rider and Horse of Rev. 19:11-16. The comparison reveals one as real and the other as apostate. James is correct.

    Re 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

    Re 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. 17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God 18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. 19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.’

    The horse and rider of Rev. 6:2 is ‘given’ a horse, bow, and crown by God for a short time. The real-deal of Rev. 19 is Victor. Both, of course, are the natural explaining the supernatural. Throughout the Bible Light/White is God and darkness (night/black) is evil.

    • Yes, the rider on the white horse in Rev 19 is Jesus Christ our L ord. His is the Way, the Truth and the Life, and His horse is “white”.

      White is reserved for holiness, purity, and assigned to heavenly orientations. Believers in heaven are given white robes. Throughout the scriptures we associate white with purity and holiness. We know the rider of the white horse in Rev 6 is not our Lord and the white horse of Rev 6 has nothing to do with purity.

      Therefore, the white horse of Rev 6 must have a different orientation.

      Please, I am not splitting horses (and no hairs). We need to look at all 4 collectively to gain the symbolism and there is a bit of unique history that I’ve left for the end of this posting.

      My point for this particular white horse is this – it requires all 4 horses’ colors, together, for us to understand not just the “rider” but where he comes from (family lines and region) and his objectives (seals).

      It is a collective message with these horses and seals and not just knowing the first rider is the Anti-Christ with his “white horse”. And, when you put rider on all 4, the horses paint a picture.

      Does “he” also ride out again?

      Yes!

      His horse is equally as important in the collection.

      And, the list of colors (white to green) does not end with a black (death) but green (sickly?).

      So, how does this white line up with the Arab Rebellion colors and the Caliphate?

      The historical order of the 4 Caliphates begins with a “white” banner. That is why white is first. It is the first in the list of Caliphates.

      The first Caliphate (Umayyad) was the 5th greatest empire in the world. Please re-read the long post on this above. It tells a great deal about accomplishments of centralized power etc. A history of very strong political leadership.

      This first Caliphate springs forth from a Persian empire, which has a very unique horse and rider story.

      The Umayyard Caliphate followed the Parthian empire (247 B.C.–224 A.D.), which was beyond the eastern borders of Rome’s dominion. (The Parthian empire occupied all of modern Iran, Iraq and Armenia, parts of Turkey, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan, Afghanistan and Tajikistan, and -for brief periods- territories in Pakistan, Syria, Lebanon, Israel and Palestine.)

      Here is some interesting insight to the bow that the rider of the white horse carries.

      The Parthian warriors had a distinct reputation: the only mounted archers in the first century; white horses were their trademark.

      “The Parthian shot was a military tactic made famous by the Parthians. The Parthian archers, mounted on light horse, would feign retreat; then, while at a full gallop, turn their bodies back to shoot at the pursuing enemy. The maneuver required superb equestrian skills, since the rider’s hands were occupied by his bow. As the stirrup had not been invented at the time of the Parthians, the rider relied solely on pressure from his legs to guide his horse.” Great riding skill and marksmanship.

      A notable battle in which this tactic was employed (by the Parthians) was the Battle of Carrhae. In this battle the Parthian shot was a principal factor in the victory over the Romans.

      This Parthain victory was the worst defeat the Roman army ever experienced and would experience until the elephants came upon them and Rome fell.

      You’ve heard the phrase “a parting shot”?

      That came from the Parthain archers riding on horseback straight into the lines of a Roman army only to cut them to bits going into the battle lines and riding way from the battle – parting shots!

      If chronology were to be the source, it would appear that the English usage of “parting shot” actually preceded the use of the phrase “Parthian shot”.

      The figurative use of the phrase “Parthian shot” appeared in The Times of London, (1842): “They have probably enough dealt a Parthian shot to British interests…”

      “Parthian shot” is now rather archaic and rarely used. “Parting shot” is far more likely to be encountered.

      With which Parthian shot he walked away, leaving the two rivals open-mouthed behind him. Arthur Conan Doyle, A Study in Scarlet (1886)

      “His Parthian shot reached them as they closed the doors. ‘Never mind darlings’, they heard him say, ‘we can all sleep soundly now Turner’s here.'” John Le Carre, A Small Town in Germany (1968)

      “You wound, like Parthians, while you fly, and kill with a retreating eye.”
      Samuel Butler, An Heroical Epistle of Hudibras to His Lady (1678)

      So now, the objective of the first seal reads very political and very much with the tone of an arrogant diplomat – with screwed calculated strategy, cunning mind, sharp tongue, and very strong demeanor, giving the last word in any conversation or argument.

      The Anti-Christ comes from an Islamic tradition/linage and not European and not from Rome. The False Prophet may come from Rome. But, the guy on the white, fiery red, black and pale horse – he is walking around in a suit with diplomatic credentials and maybe his relatives were of the Umayyad Caliphate.

      Rev 6:2 “And I looked, and behold, a white horse. He who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer” (NKJV).

  6. They plan to break the Spirit of America and Isaiah 47 explains why it is coming. It speaks of the catastrophe that is coming upon the USA.

    I can feel it so deeply, its heart breaking. Yet the people still refuse to listen and do the will of the LORD.

    WEDNESDAY, 23 NOVEMBER 2011

    America’s Calamity Co-Creation

    In Luke chapter 17:34 it mentions the two people on the bed, one is taken and the other is left. That also appears in the Gospel of Thomas and we explained how Michael (mentioned in Daniel) was taken. That verse also mentions the night and the night is to do with the Harp of Faithfulness. Psalm 92, David tells you that the harp comes at night time. e.g. the last days of the end times. Psalm 100, tells you his faithfulness endures through all generations. The number 100 is to do with the spiritual law and good deeds in compassionate action to save humanity from itself.

    Hence why the Lute of Lovingkindness spoke of the importance of doing the will of the heavenly Father in this timeline and following instructions.. Those that care fully, do the will of the LORD and they hear the call to do so.

    The other chapter about the last days of the end times is the well known, Matthew chapter 24:41, and it mentions ‘Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left”.

    Isaiah 47:2 relates to the grinding. “Take millstones and grind flour, take off your veil. Lift up your skirts, bare your legs, and wade through the streams”. What are Americans doing? Covering their heads and legs.

    This isn’t just about women either, as Matthew also states: “Two men will be in the field, one will be taken, the other left”.

    Matthew 24 is about the destruction of the temple, the religious buildings coming down. It also mentions the ‘abomination that causes desolation’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel. He tells the people to flee to the mountains in this timeline.

    He also mentions another sign of how to recognize the Son of Man, he told the people that there would be a carcass and the vultures would gather there. As we know, a carcass is to with death and the death of a person. That certainly happened in 2010 when Michael died, and again in Libya when their leader was murdered.

    It mentions when the Son of Man gathers the (spiritually) elect and the angels give the trumpet call. The old heaven and earth passes away. The world as people have known it certainly passes away. The almighty gathering of the angels and spiritually elect happened in November 2003 for the harmonic concordance. Afterwards, the nations mourned the Asian disaster.

    During the Asian disaster one was taken the other left, men, women and children.

    Again, he mentions the night time, and King David also spoke about the night time in Psalm 92. The Harp of Faithfulness arrived at night time. Prophet Hosea also told the people that the LORD would betroth his people to him with his righteousness and faithfulness. Hosea declared that the LORD himself would plant her himself in Jezreel. That happened in May 2006. Psalm 45, 46, Rev 12 and Micah 4 also speaks of her.

    The Son of Man is then referred to as a faithful servant and wise, in other verses it tells you that wisdom will be proven right by her actions; and wisdom was called to do the count on the man 666 in Rev 13. The Leo the Leopard, the man of war, Obama who was also mentioned by Prophet Daniel. Who did they call the Messiah? Obama. The world fell at his feet.

    The faithful and wise one that he put in charge of his household experiences the weeping and gnashing of teeth and there was plenty of that going on the USA. Especially, when we stood against Obama and told them that the USA was being set up for the fall.

    The gnashing of teeth also relates to the parable about the angels throwing away the bad fish in this timeline. It is all about the sorting out between what is right, pure and true. Those that care fully and those that do not. Those that take compassionate action to help others and those that do not. Those that do the will of the LORD, delivered by his Harp of Faithfulness and those that do not.

    Did the Lute of Lovingkindness ever call the Harp of Faithfulness a hypocrite as the text states? No, Micah 4 tells you that she received her kingship after from return from Babylon (USA) in 2008. Only the adversaries of the king called Daughter ZION a hypocrite, and they were Americans.

    Did the Son of Man ever beat a servant of the LORD physically? No. Of course not. So who are the wicked servants that are called hypocrites mentioned in the text? Those that refused to pass on the food and share what the Harp of Faithfulness, the Son of Man was sent to deliver. Those that refused to heal themselves when asked to do so. They were warned in advance; that they would be judged by their words and actions in this timeline.

    So now are you ready to build New Jerusalem? The City of Enlightenment, that Prophet Isaiah spoke about? The place of the Saints, mystics and healers, an eternal abode of perpetual light?

    Let’s take another look at Isaiah 47 that relates to women that wear veils. It mentions the Virgin daughter of Babylon = USA and it tells them that they will be exposed.

    One of the people that was exposed was Jezebel, mentioned in Rev 2. Exposed as Elizabeth Claire Prophet, (USA) the one that was asked to repent but refused to do so. The one that refused to be a widow. The one that scripture tells you that she called herself Prophet, her original name was Wulf and the followers of Christ were warned about the wolves.

    It mentions the Queens city of the Babylonians and how he was angry with the people because they desecrated the inheritance. It states that the USA showed no mercy, even on the aged, you laid a heavy yoke. Even a Romanian child artist in the USA knows the truth. She did a painting for Queen Elizabeth in England, (land of Joseph) with the dove of peace that his held back by the weight of the world.

    When I first arrived to help the USA the LORD asked for mercy for his blessed one and Isaiah 47 states that they showed no mercy, and that they desecrated the inheritance. The inheritance is the promise that was made to Moses; to send the one to help them.

    Who came to this blog claiming ‘I am the forever eternal queen?” A young American from Ohio, an Obama supporter. The scripture tells her ‘But you did not reflect on these things and what might happen’.

    The fall of Babylon is repeated again in Rev 17 and Rev 18, in Isaiah 47 it speaks of the following:

    Sorceries
    Potent spells
    Magic spells
    Wickedness
    Conjure
    Calamity

    It tells the USA, that your wisdom and knowledge mislead you, and we warned them not to fire the grids back in 2007. Let alone what else they get up to. We warned them about chasing knowledge and to concentrate on the tree of life experience and adhering to the will of the LORD.

    It mentions a catastrophe that you cannot see will come upon you due to the co-creation. Interesting that many American spiritual people have said that they have not been able to see beyond 2012, even remote viewers have been known to say the same. They are simply not being allowed to see what is coming upon the USA, and we featured that prophecy in a different post recently. Hence, why so many are living in the love bubbles and what the Lute of Lovingkindness calls ‘ A false sense of security’ that was co-created by the American Church and the new age.

    It tells the USA that the astrologers will not save them, and that they cannot save themselves from the power of the flame. These are not coals for warmth, these are not fires that you can sit by. It finishes and tells the Americans there is not one American there that can save them from what is coming to be.

    Of course, they will not accept, even though we have been warning them since 2007, and as one of them said today, ‘I don’t care’.

    Once again, only those that carefully will hear the voice of the LORD, and the one that he sent to help the USA and its people in this timeline.

    Teshuvah

    ELIAKIM JOSEPH-SOPHIA

    The one from the land of Joseph, blessed is the one that comes in the name of the LORD.

    http://academysounds.blogspot.com/2011/11/americas-calamity-co-creation.html

  7. WEDNESDAY, 23 NOVEMBER 2011

    Ammonrites USA
    In the last post we mentioned the catastrophe to do with the USA, and that word is only mentioned twice in the bible. In Isaiah 47 and Genesis 19.

    “Disaster will come upon you, and you will not know how to conjure it away. A calamity will fall upon you that you cannot ward off with a ransom; a catastrophe you cannot foresee will suddenly come upon you.” 47:11

    In Genesis 19 it is about the destruction of the cities of the plain. He brought Lot out of the catastrophe that overthrew the cities where lot had lived. In that chapter Lot bowed down with his face to the ground and in the book of Daniel he also has his face to the ground. Isaiah 47 also mentions women covering their heads with veils and covering their legs. They are told to take the veils off, to uncover their legs and walk in the streams. This relates to Americans becoming Islamic and the streams relate to consciousness. The Gospel of Peace speaks of the holy streams. You can then understand that the catastrophe; is due to Islam that stops people walking in the holy streams.

    The book of Genesis speaks of a foreigner that is the judge, in the New Testament the Queen of the South comes to judge this generation. The Jewish priests were told that the only sign that they would be given would be the sign of Jonah. The whale arrived in May 2010 in Israel, also when we were blessing the Sea of Galilee, each spiritual person that attended was given a white dove on the 22nd of May 2006.

    At the coming of dawn the angels urged Lot to hurry and take his wife and children before the cities get swept away. ( I have certainly advised friends in the USA to leave). They were then led safely out of the city, for the LORD was merciful to them. Again, the people were told to flee to the mountains.

    Lot did not wish to go to the mountains and asked to go to Zoar instead. He was allowed to do so. The sun had risen over the land and then the destruction came to be; after the LORD had saved Lot.

    Abraham saw dense smoke arising from the land, like smoke from a furnace. There was certainly a furnace on fire in the USA during 2011 after we saw the column of smoke. Eventually, Lot settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. The time is getting close and the biblical prophecies stated that the people in the land of ESAU, that have been chosen will be driven out by fire. The LORD already knows who he has chosen to build and live in the city of enlightenment predicted by Prophet Isaiah.

    Interesting that it mentions Ben-Ammi father of the Ammonrites. It is written that Naamah was an Ammonite and she was the only wife of King Solomon that bore him a child, an heir. As you know the LORD called out to me Ben-Ami in 2007 and it means ‘Behold a Son’. It is also written in the flesh of my right hand.

    Interesting that it mentions Jordan related to the Ammonites because the son that I gave birth to in this lifetime is named Jordan. Also King Solomon has reincarnated and we have shared many lives together.

    Ammon was a source of great natural resources. It was productive in agriculture, and occupied a vital place on the Kings highway.

    It is written that Naamah was praised for her righteousness on account of Moses, and they were told that they must do no harm to Ammon.

    Na’amah means ‘Loveliness’ and the root of the word also means ‘to be pleasant, to be beautiful, be sweet, be delightful, be lovely’. Na’em.

    There is a lot more to be discovered in Jordan, and Jordanians are known to defend Israel and its right to exist. Walid Shoebat is a Jordanian, and his family moved from Jordan to Gaza, they then called themselves Palestinians. He now lives in the USA and he is fully aware of what is going on the Middle East as far as the biblical prophecies are concerned. However, he does not share any of the prophecies regarding the USA. Is that because it makes people unpopular with Americans who may not wish to hear the truth? Nor does Walid share that these days will be shortened for the sake of the spiritually elect.

    When the LORD sends a judge to a foreign land, it is help the righteous, to ensure that they receive the help that is important that the righteous receive. Hence, why the LORD sent his judge to many countries and to walk the light through them during the night time. To shine a light into the darkness, to lead the way out of it, and to light up the room. However, if the righteous refuse to listen and do, then there is nothing more that the LORD can do to help them. When the LORD sends his Harp of Faithfulness, it is a sign for the countries that have received it. That the wisdom of his righteousness has indeed arrived.

    I was not sent to Jordan, although I was sent to Egypt, Tunisa and East Jerusalem. I was invited to go to Saudi all expenses paid, the LORD forbid me to go.

    I could never live in an Islamic country due to its oppression. May the Jordanians continue to seek for their true roots within, to truly connect with the ancient cultures.

    The truth will set them free.

    ELIAKIM JOSEPH-SOPHIA

    1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammon

    2. http://www.shoebat.com/

    http://academysounds.blogspot.com/2011/11/ammonrites-usa.html

  8. My apologies Ben-Ami means “Son of my people”.

  9. Do you see the above 3 posts by Eliakim kids?
    This could be you too!
    So remember, “Just say “NO” to drugs.”

    🙂

  10. Marianne

    I am not sure I understand how the time windows you use represent the seals. The middle east is for sure the people and the place of end time, the colors of the islamic flag may be corresponding to the seals but I do not agree with the years aligning with the seals themself, nor that white represents evil.

    I do believe they will have involvement in crashing the economic system as they have been hacking on the currency of all the rest of the gentile world for years. It is so bad that I believe in speaking with the bank that it maybe the thing that causes the mark of the beast to go forth.

    Ask any banker and insurance company as the cost of the counterfeiting it is huge. Almost 100 percent of all currency and checks counterfeited come from the middle east.

    We do as humans and people who trust in God believe and know that the true God is represented by the color of white. The color white in the first seal shows the bow without arrows which means its power is without a world weapon, in my opinion. To me it means that it is still God, as he says he will hiss at them to come from the arm of the rivers of Egypt, he refers to them as flies and the Assyrians as the bees.

    Hiss means he will whistle to them. I fell it means he will use spiritual ability being the bow. If a arrow was used I think it would be the anti-christ demonic force. I say this also because when God has wanted to put an end to evil or to remove a barrier of evil he will use an evil force or an evil spirit to create the end, he tormented Saul with an evil spirit.

    You show the time line of green as 909-11071 and you make it sound like they have been dominating the world from the beginning. I don’t see where they have been dominating anything as a matter of fact even now I see them as the ones who throw rocks and hide their hand. I think they are going to continue to do evil, as they have always and I see them as spineless cowards.

    The green horse represents death, or sickness as desease from such as plaques. I agree that they are by nature the type to poision some nations drinking water, or to forward some biological wickedness. But if the green seal already took place according to your time line wouldn’t we be gone.

    Who are where were the numbers of people who are suppose to die under the seal?

    They are as the flies according to God, this is suppose to mean numerous, but it also means filthy. Whatever a fly lands on it puts pooh. They are the followers of Islam the false religion, they are of hatred when God is of Love. They are aggressors as the enemy of God is, Jesus told us when they slap you on the face give them the other cheek. So I agree that this makes the enemy of God and his children. He refers to the Assyrian group as bees because of the stinging poisons, the swelling angers they are creating in all the world.

    But we must remember the word of God in Isaiah, he is calling them to the place to the end. I don’t mean God can make one to be evil but he can give those who are black in soul and wicked an open door to lead them to the valley of the end.

    I think the end time for all things is at hand and agree that this people and belief systems will be used as an instrument in part of the sorrows but they are only a part of it. Because Russia and China have a large role to play in the final act.

    When you speak of the red seal, the word says it was given to him to take peace from the world and it was given to him a great sword. Red to me represents blood shed with war as it follows the taking of peace from the earth. In other words it may mean them doing so by bio or chem or nuke warfare, as after the pale horse follows. Dealing with the sword portion I see that it can be the counter part of the Christian. The sword of the Christian to defend against the spritual realm is the sword of the word of God. When we are under attack we use our sword to put an end to the enemy attacking us, we bring every thought captive and cast down all vain imaginations. We do so by using the word of God as our power. A weapon not seen by human eyes but very able to deal with all issues in the spiritual realm. The spritiual realm is as much a part of the end of time as the human part. Here is how to know that the weapon of the word is powerful is to look at our example from God. He brought all things into exsistence with the power of word and that is what he gave us for protection against the evil one and the end of time.

    So are you drawing the anology that the book of quaran is their great sword, as it is opposite of the word of God?

    If so then do you believe that the economic system to evolve and the anit-christ is of the middle eastern decent and raised Islam?

    I beleive that the colors in the Islamic nations is in some way a possible indicator or road map for the Christians. Colors as words tell or can signify identity. As with God he always has a plan and a purpose to all things. His plan, I believe includes the protection of his word and his people. Meaning the natural olive tree and the wild olive tree. But on the other end of that thought is that as time goes the Islamic people are in all nations? If you are only looking at the middle east then you are looking at more nations for the end time than are named. As the beast represents many other kingdoms/nations.

    God is all power and he is the only one with all knowledge he saw the beginning to the end. This is not something the enemy was permitted to do as he has not the capablities, nor is he a match to our Lord.

    On the other hand my biggest issue is trying to draw the timeline of years to the colors of the seals as it does not add up. Please forgive me if that is not what you are trying to do here with the years?

    • hi pattie.

      I forwarded your comment to the guest author who wrote this.

    • Pattie,

      Thank you for your excellent post. I enjoyed reading the insights you have in the coming war (spiritual weapons) and other nuggets you present.

      I posted a long reply to the writer – “Internet elias” (a few postings above yours), which answers some of your questions and addresses some of your points with more of my comments/reaserch.

      There is more information/background on my thesis that the four colors gives us great insight into the first 3.5 years of the 7 year period we call The Tribulation. I’m interested in the culture and region that this rider of 4 horses comes from and brings with him.

      So far, I’ve specificly addressed the Firey Red, Pale, and White horse, with the overview that began this page.

      I will wait a few days until I post on the black horse.

      My bottom line – we are within the 7 year period. The signs in the heavens on Sept 29, 2011 (Rev 12) was the confirmation I needed to come to that conclusion.

      The first two seals are open, because – I consider the red seal is very clearly open.

      The third seal is an economic/financial issue and the objective of Satan is to break what is established to create his new world order.

      This 3rd seal should be opening at a bank branch near you, the Federal Reserve and at one of many EU financial institution soon. This should take place as soon as January, more likely Spring of 2012 but will occur well before the US elections of 2012.

      The one world currency system must emerge from a restructured US dollar based world currency system and restructured euro. When a new global currency system emerges – inflection will go through the roof in the US and we are the supply of bread/grain to the world.

      There may also be implications to oil / price per barrel, which also impacts the economic “scales” of energy costs and transporation. Who knows – Israel may strike Iran in December and the everyhing I write is changed in a matter of hours.

      But true believers (oil and wine) are not harmed. The Lord, strong and mighty, will protect and provide for the remnant, the Bride. As you know, the real concern is not with flesh and blood, and these 4 seals, but with principalities and powers.

      Blessings to you.

      • Hi DJ,

        Just a quick question here cause I have to go out, but I would be interested in hearing your response.
        Above you say, “My bottom line – we are within the 7 year period. The signs in the heavens on Sept 29, 2011 (Rev 12) was the confirmation I needed to come to that conclusion.”

        Well if that is the case, that conclusion would be contrary to all who believe in a Pre-Trib harpazo, (the “last trump” (1 Cor. 15:52) referring to Yom Teru’ah, or that particular sign itself, (Rev. 12.) is referring to Israel, (Gen.37:9,10.)), yet placing those subjects aside, if the Tribulation has started, where are the Two Witnesses?

        Be Blessed

        • Thanks for the question. Quick but a very thick question that requies me to give a fork and knife reply. Please get comfortable.

          I don’t know where the two witnesses are or where they will go (Moses one of them?). They arrive a few years into the Tribulation period. And what about those 144,000 – Jews coming out of Jerusalem or “believers” from around the world? And, what does Ezek 9 say about marking them?. But, I know the Tribuation Period started.

          Yes, I believe the Pre-Tribulation theory/position is no longer valid and I was raised on Pre-Trib teaching. Saved for over 40 years and attended semiary too. I’ve gone through deliverance and ministered deliverance (demon spirits), confronted two witches (in two different churches) and pushed back a few curses too. Yup, I am a spiritual gun slinger. Tread on those snakes and scopions, thank you Jesus. The Lord is good!

          So you know my testimony – I am covered by the Blood of the Lamb. He is Lord of my life.

          Okay – here we go.

          When I read websites, blogs and Face Book postings, I see the Pre-Trib view so strongly defended, it seems like a religion. If you have any other view than Pre-Trib view, you’ve been brainwashed and under “false teaching”.

          Why are they so serious about their rapture and Pre-Trib view? Jesus is Lord. It is past time to start preparing your body, mind and spirit for what matters, while saving souls and edify believes. (See the Sheep in the pasture dream posted here.)

          How did I get to this rational, spiritual and evangelical position? Two years ago – I asked the Lord to reveal to me more understanding of Scriptures. “Seek ye first the Kingdom…”

          Part of this prayer request was to understand “the end times”. I began reading Mathew 24, and stopped seeking answers from all the end time authors with interpretations and answers to bible prophecy. The dozens of books and articles by “biblical scholars”, arguing their positions and dozens of book selling authors where read with great wariness. God bless them as they spread the Gospel and shepherd His flocks.

          On my personal journey, seeking the Lord to understand the Word, I take the position of a sheep and I want to hear His voice. The motivation and spiritual position is important to me. It begins by asking (fasting and prayer) the Lord questions and the Holy Spirit is our guide and counselor. He does not hold back when you seek to know Him and His Word.

          As you see from this posting – I like researching and learning and God enjoys and blesses those that seek Him (Psalms 84).

          While reading Mathew, Joel, Amos, Zephaniah and everything I could find about The Great Day of the Lord – one of the keys was the “blood moon”.

          Then, I learned about Hebrew Feasts (“appointment times”): Feasts of Unleavened Bread, Passover, Pentecost the Feasts of Trumpets, Day of Atonement and Feasts of Tabernacles. These feasts are very important as God requires His people to attend to them and these Feasts will be held during the Millennium.

          As I research those subjects, I learn that the heavenly signs of Revelations 12. These were displayed above us on Feasts of Trumpets, September 29, 2011. This sing occuring on Feasts of Trumpets is critical and essential as it is the warning blast trumpet. God’s calendar has begun.

          It is very clear to see the heavenly sign of Revelations 12 – once you understand that this heavenly signs were displayed at His birth (Feasts of Tabernacles) with the Bethlehem Star (http://www.bethlehemstar.net/), and the heavenly signs on the Day of the Cross (Passover) was displaced in the same heavenly location (Virgo).

          It does require astronomy software (Stellarium.com) since the sign of Revelations 12 occurred during daylight (she is clothed in the sun and the moon at her feet). There are other plant alignments that match up with the Revelations 12 scripture verses – Satan (Saturn) waiting for her to deliver, the war in heaven (Mars in the heart of the constellation Leo), while God (Jupiter) is on the head of the sea serpent (Cetus). Mercury (messenger/angel) is with Venues (Man child).

          All of these are the heavenly signs of Revelations 12. This is not astrology – it is astronomy. Please watch Bethlehem Star video to understand the depth of the meanings. It is amazing.

          Bible prophecy teachers don’t want to post the September heavenly sign – it comes close to setting a date and it would really screw up their books sales (Pre-Trib rapture) and message series.

          Every Pre-trib end time scholar I’ve read has interpreted the verses of Revelations 12 as John looking back, retrospective, to the birth of Christ. They will hold to that belief so that reality can be dismissed – besides who will actually take the time to confim the event? Or believe it is a true sign from God in the heavens – like the Word of God says?

          We cry for a sign and we got the biggest one in Revelations so far. Oh, well. Keep those cards and letter coming…

          Even the producers of the Bethlehem Star (made several years ago) give the same interpretation. But, Revelations 12 is not historical. It is part of the signs of this time and the coming end of the age, the soon coming of the Great Day of the Lord.

          Here is a very good summary of the justification for Pre-Trib rapture theory.

          The events of Revelations proceed on a chapter by chapter flow to justify that the “churches” are here and gone before the Tribulation begins.

          This is classic Pre-Trib.

          “Chapter 5 [Revelations] tells that judgment is about to fall upon the earth, and chapter 6 starts the Tribulation. You will notice that nowhere will you find any reference to the Church on earth, because the Church is up in Heaven watching events unfold.”

          (http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/pages/rapture/the_rapture.htm)

          The Pre-Trib theory is proven false by the signs of Rev 12 above us on September 29. The signs tell us it has begun, by God’s calendar. He set the times and seasons – in the heavens.

          The rapture could happen now…. or 3.5 year from now or I don’t know.

          The seals can be open before the 7 year period too. And, I think the research posted here is supporting that theory – especially with the second seal.

          I think the first seal was opened as far back as 2009 or September 2010. I don’t have a specific event in mind. The objective of the first seal is the release of events/actions that pulls together all that is required to advance (conquering and to conquer) the Anti-Christ’s agenda: geo-political, economic/financial dominate position and control of his “kingdom” or region with great influence extended over the world.

          Accordingly, the 3th seal will open very soon. This seal is economic seal not a food supply or shortage seal. The shortages and earthly devastation come with the 4th seal.

          The Lord will care for His sheep, who know His voice. We are told in Rev 2 and 3 to repent and give ear to the Spirit – then He will protect, deliver and reward “believers”. We are not appointed to God’s wrath. I think that the wrath comes after September 2015.

          My theory is this – we now have 7 years to go before the end of the age comes.

          The best teaching on Hebrew Feasts is by Mark Biltz, a pastor/teacher. He is not an author on the end times.

          You can see his teaching on You Tube by searching: Mark Biltz Feast of Trumpets.

          You can also search You Tube for learning about the star. Search: Bethlehem Star part 1.

          If you would like, send me an e-mail (djmaxwell2012@aol.com) and I will send you an excellent graphic of the blood moon (lunar eclipse) dates that occur on Hebrew Feasts days.

          This same paring of eclipses with Feasts days occurred on the day Jesus Christ was born and the day He died. It is very ‘unique” and will happen on Feast days starting 2014 and 2015.

          I can send you a graphic from the Stellarium software of the signs in the heaven on Sept 29, 2011.

          Finally, I can send you an excellent report on the various years (49 years jubilee, 70 generation, and the others) that tell us 2018 is the year (within months) when the events of the book of Revelations comes to an end.

          For me, now that I completed this study on the 4 seals – I plan to spend very little reading the end time prophecy materials and continue to focus days/evenings and nights – preparing my heart /soul to meet our King, spread the Gospel, while pray for deliverance from the powers of the air and darkness that is about us. Claiming all the athority He gave us.

          In my opinion, Rev 12:11 is a critical verse in the book and we should all spend time undertanding and learning how to apply that verse. One reason why – it is within the same chapter as the heavenly sign that was above us!

          Always looking up – but with a keen eye the lamp oil, staying in the Word and the spiritural warfare power dry.

          Blessings

          • Hi DJ,

            Thanks for your response.

            I suspect by your content of your reply, that you chose to overlook the portion of my question which stated, “yet placing those subjects aside”.

            Nonetheless, I enjoyed your tutorial regarding the Moedim, (Pesach, Chag Hamotzi, Yom habikkurim, Shavu’ot, Yom Teru’ah, Yom Kippur, and Sukkot.)
            However, since you skipped over that of my question, and proceeded to introduce further your view points regarding the other subjects, by that I would assume that they are now open to discussion.

            Briefly, regarding Revelation 12 and your position that it is representative to that of an cosmological heavenly sign.
            My opinion differs. In allowing for scripture to interpret scripture, (which I believe to be a sound hermeneutical practice), I consider Revelation 12 to be referring to that of Israel based upon Genesis 37:9,10., with the 12th. star being that of Joseph. (By the way I have also seen the Bethlehem Star, and disagreed with its producer and his belief that Rev. 12 was the church, (that we know it as today) and that of the “Man Child” as referring to the original birth of the Messiah, which I will discuss in the next paragraphs in greater detail.)

            I also happen to be a proponent of, and believer in a Pre-Trib Harpazo as well, and have difficulty in understanding, how, if one comprehends the intimate meanings of the Jewish Feasts, why anyone would argue what appears to be so obvious.
            (ie; If Yeshua fulfilled the 1st. 4 to perfection, should He not fulfill the last 3 in like manner?) I do disagree in your statement above where you say, “Every Pre-trib end time scholar I’ve read has interpreted the verse of Revelation 12 as John looking back, retrospective, to the birth of Christ. They will hold to that belief so that reality can be dismissed.”

            Granted, I am not a published scholar, however as a pre-tribulation advocate, I do not hold to that belief whatsoever.
            I too believe in critical exegesis and attempt to analyze scripture with both the heart and the mind, believing that through the Spirit, both “sophia and gnosis” are rewarded. (1 Corinthians 12:8.) With that, I have concluded through my studies, that Revelation 12 is referring to a yet unfulfilled future event, rather than having any historical reflection at all. This was derived from the following logic; If I were to be say an author of a novel, and I wished for you as the reader to understand a particular time frame in which my story happened to take place, I would probably relay that information to you relatively early within the first couple of chapters. In my opinion, the book of Revelation does the same thing.

            To start with, the title of the book itself contains a certain amount of specificity regarding that on its own. The English word “revelation” is derived from the Greek, “ἀποκάλυψις”, transliterated “apokalypsis” (Strong’s 602) its definitions consist of, “Laying bare, making something naked. A disclosure of truth, or instruction concerning things before unknown. Used of events by which things or states or persons hitherto, (or until this time) have been withdrawn from view are made visible to all. A manifestation, or appearance.”
            This would then mean, that all of this following information has been until now, “hidden and unknown”.

            John states in Revelation 1:1. that this is, “The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must “shortly come to pass”; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:” KJV.
            The term translated above as “shortly come to pass” can only be understood within its correct context, as to be referring to to the future, rather than having any historical significance whatsoever.
            Furthermore, this is supported as well by what is stated in verse 3. “Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this “prophecy”, and keep those things which are written therein: “for the time is at hand”. KJV.
            The English word “prophecy” is derived from the transliterated Greek, “prophēteia” (Strong’s 4394). The primary definition of prophecy is, “a discourse emanating from divine inspiration and declaring the purposes of God, whether by reproving and admonishing the wicked, or comforting the afflicted, or revealing things hidden; esp. by “foretelling future events”.”
            The term translated into “for the time is at hand” would again indicate that all of the following information is describing events of the future. (And prophecy could not be considered prophecy, if the information itself is already known.)
            In verse 19 Yeshua says to John, “Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;” KJV.
            Yeshua tells John to write the things which he has seen. This he evidently does by writing within the next verse Yeshua’s explanation as to what he had just seen regarding the vision of the seven stars and the seven golden candlesticks.
            Yeshua then informs John to write “the things that are”, within the epistles to the Churches. The “shall be hereafter” would again indicate that this is a prophecy regarding future events. The English word “hereafter” is derived from the copulation of the Greek words “ταῦτα μετά” or transliterated, “tauta meta” (Strong’s 5023 and 3326 respectively.) Combined in this manner they can simply be defined in English as “after”.
            When the epistles to the Churches were completed, John was then caught up to heaven, and the voice that he heard said to him, “Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.” Rev 4:1. KJV.
            Again with the inclusion of “hereafter”, this cannot be misconstrued as meaning anything other than regarding the future from when John experienced this vision, and the revelation from Yeshua, and the angels.
            So above we have been provided with “revelation” and its specific definition. “Shortly come to pass”, and “prophecy” and its specific definition. “The time is at hand” (verse 3) and “The things that shall be hereafter” by Yeshua Himself in verse 1:19, and then “hereafter” again in 4:1.
            That is six (6) instances in total, for the reader to understand the context of time frame
            Therefore since there is nothing to indicate that anything of a historical significance will be provided within the following narrative, and that it is indeed a sacred prophecy provided by God to Yeshua to reveal what has previously been hidden to His followers, then the wording translated as “man child”, (within the KJV.) in Revelation 12:5 cannot be that of Yeshua.

            Many appear to simply jump to that conclusion based upon the terminology that has been translated into the English, “rule all nations with a rod of iron”, and make the assumption that it is Yeshua. (Though to actually do that, it would be contradicting the six (6) previously stipulated points that were provided for the reader to understand the context of time frame.) What many fail to recognize is that this same terminology is not only applicable to Yeshua as expressed in Psalms 2:9., and Revelation 19:15., but is also expressed as being the reward to the overcomers in the epistle to the Church of Thyatira in Rev. 2:26,27. as well.
            So the phrase to “rule all nations with a rod of iron” is not definitive enough to utilize as a conclusive justification as to only be referring to one specific entity. Rather, the phrase itself encompasses all who will be chosen to rule and reign with Him within His Millennial Kingdom. So I would agree with you that Revelation 12, (or all of Revelation for that matter), is not historical. However in my opinion, I would disagree that it is representative of solely and astronomical event and is rather, referring to Israel and that of the Remnant. If you have come to your recent conclusion based upon the Comet Elenin, (being just above the constellation Virgos head, and nearer to the hind quarters of Leo the Lion), then to me the sign is not that substantively conclusive at all.

            In respects to my view points regarding a Pre-Tribulation gathering away and assembly of those who are Yeshua’s prior to the advent of His second coming, much of what I believe can be located here on this site under the heading of “The Rapture and the Church of Philadelphia”. I believe that the material that is covered there, would provide you, and others, with a more in depth summary than what it is that you have provided above.
            In my opinion, (so please don’t take this personally) much of what you have stated above is not substantiated by scripture, and therefore appears to be that of speculation. The reason that my original question was presented to you, was based upon the 7 year time frame that is defined as a week in Daniel. If we look at Revelation 11:3. we are told that the Two Witnesses will prophesy 1,260 days, which is a period, (in utilizing the Jewish calendar) of approximately 3.5 years . And when these Two Witnesses have finished their testimony, they are then killed. And after a period of lying dead in Jerusalem for a period of 3.5 days, they are then “caught up” to heaven.
            If we then proceed to chapter 12, (keeping in mind that the original texts did not have either chapters or verse within them, therefore a certain chronological and linear time frame must be considered) we see that the woman, (which I believe is Israel) will then be protected after fleeing to the wilderness, (for coincidently) the period of 1,260 days as well. This would then encompass the full 7 year time frame of the Tribulation.
            I believe that the Two Witnesses will appear with their testimony of the Father and the Son, when the Tribulation actually commences. As has been demonstrated in the past, God has always forewarned the people through His prophets before He fully proceeds with His divine actions. (Amos 3:7.) The whole point of the tribulation is a last ditch effort to turn the hearts of the sons of disobedience, to the truth that is in God. It is not to subject those that already believe and accept His truth to His wrath.
            (Romans 5:9. etc.) The same that was done in Sodom and Gomorrah will be done again. Those that are righteous in His eyes through the blood of Yeshua, will be whisked away beforehand to safety for they are Yeshua’s own, and then the Two Witnesses will proceed with their testimony to an unbelieving world.

            So for me, I will still hold fast to my beliefs regarding a Pre-Tribulation assembly, and that the first seal is yet to be opened.
            I will maintain this belief until perhaps Two Prophets happen to appear in Jerusalem that are preaching the Word. And if that happens, well, then I just may have to reconsider a few things. lol.

            Though I disagree with the premise that you propose here, I appreciated the read. No matter what it is that we happen to believe personally, we can trust that God knows full well as to what He is doing.

            Shalom,
            Be Blessed

            • Alienated,

              Thank you for the excellent reply and comments. You read like someone who is an author of text books (Literature, Humanities, and/or Theology). You gave me much to consider, presenting many points and taking our discourse into a few directions.

              I took a few minutes to read your postings on other pages regarding smilar topics and those are very informative.

              Before venturing on… I want to make sure the foundation of our disagreement is understood.

              Clearly evident on September 29, 2011 (Feasts of Trumpets), was the heavenly sign of Revelations 12 as represented in the constellation (Virgo), with planets (Venus = Christ, Saturn = Satan), and the sun and moon positioned accordingly. Within the same period of time (months), Mars (war) moved into the heart of Leo (King of tribe of Judah, King of kings and Lord of lords), and Jupiter (God) was over the head of Cetus the sea dragon. As you may recall from the Leviathan page – Cetus represents Leviathan.
              Isaiah 27:1 declares: “IN THAT day [the Lord will deliver Israel from her enemies and also from the rebel powers of evil and darkness] His sharp and unrelenting, great, and strong sword will visit and punish Leviathan the swiftly fleeing serpent, Leviathan the twisting and winding serpent; and He will slay the monster that is in the sea” (AMP).

              If you want to debate that this heavenly alignment, configuration, and positioning that occurred on September 29th is not the heavenly sign described in Rev 12 – I will not enter into such debate or discussion. It reminds me of reading a debate between a christian and an atheist on the topic of “Truth”. The atheist argues from a position – “there are no absolutes” – when such a position is an absolute. (From the book, “I Don’t Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist”)

              The truth of this matter is – on September 29, 2011 (Feasts of Trumpets) planet/constellation alignments displayed Revelation’s heavenly sign. This is the same type/form of heavenly signs/notices, which proclaimed the birth of Yeshua on Feasts of Tabernacles and the death of Yeshua on the cross occurring on Passover. Therefore, what is written in Revelations 12 is “The” heavenly sign that the end of the age upon us, our warning or formal God given notice presented to us on Feasts of Trumpets. You understand the significance of Feasts of Trumpets and the two feasts that follow.

              There is no coincidence that all three heavenly signs (Birth, Death and His Soon Coming) occurred on – not before, after, or close to – on a feast. This last heavenly sign was on Feast of Trumpets.

              As you write so eloquently, with my [comments] – “The whole point of the tribulation [time of sorrows, the first 3.5 years] is a last ditch effort to turn the hearts of the sons of disobedience [unbelievers and many church members (Rev 2 and 3)], to the truth [Yeshue is God’s only begotten Son “made manifest (visible) to undo (destroy, loosen, and dissolve) the works the devil” (1 John 3:8) ] that is in God [full of mercy and grace and His eternal glory]. It is not to subject those that already believe [cleave to, rely on, trust in Him] and accept His truth [the Word (John 1)] to His wrath [Great Day of the Lord and associated events within the last 3.5 years].”

              I read your lines as a separation between tribulation and wrath. True believers (cleave to, rely on, trust in Him) are not appointed to wrath. But, we should be expecting tribulation, time of sorrows, to give “us” one last chance to “repent” and “give ear to the Spirit” (Rev 2 and 3). For the sake of a lost world and many “christians” I pray for a time of sorrows so they fall on their knees – repent and are saved from wrath.

              My position is supported by the fact that our heavenly Father just gave us the sign to get ready for the last days of this age – but, it was not written in Revelations chapter 1, it is written in chapter 12 – so much for literary style points. He is God. You know, those parables were to confuse the “wise” scholars and drive them nuts.

              Get ready and be prepared (Revelations 12:11) for several months of “tribulation” that are coming upon us. There needs to be a separation of fat and lean sheep. The wheat is on the floor but the separation comes next.

              Now, I’ll respond to your question of witnesses.

              Certainly, the two witnesses will arrive. Since the sign in the heavens appeared a few weeks ago, I expect the witnesses to appear and beginning their work – soon. Seems to me they are the mighty men of God that confront and confound the work of the False Prophet and Beast.

              So, when the False Prophet (Vatican?) is revealed – I expect that would be the time for the witnesses to come forth and begin the great work of God on earth with signs and wonders and other acts. I think they are killed and resurrected from the dead before the Great Day of the Lord begins (on or soon after September 2015). 2012 is going to be a very exciting year.

              Please look for the final posting on the “black horse” and rider with the 3rd seal tomorrow. The significant historical information on the Abbasid Caliphate period is far too similar to the objective/message of the 3rd seal to be a coincidence.

              Once again, the color of the horse (black), objective of the seal (economic/finance) and the history of this Islamic Caliphate follow the correlation pattern of the other 3 horse and seals.

              It is clear to me, up for debate, that the first four seals are horses out of the barn of Islam and Islam is the home of the Anti-Christ (Ezekiel 28).

              So, what is your problem/question with the above?

              The four seals are setting up the political, economic and other structures for the Anti-Christ to rule his “kingdom” or region of the earth, expand his power/control throughout the world and attempt to crush Israel but failing to do so – “the dragon was furious (enraged) at the woman, and he went away to wage war on the remainder of her descendants–[on those] who obey God’s commandments and who have the testimony of Jesus Christ [and adhere to it and bear witness to Him] (Rev 12:17. AMP).

              Blessings to you alienated.

              • Hi DJ,

                An excellent well thought out and articulated response. Thank you.

                I do not disagree with you regarding your proposal in respects to the Caliphate. There very well could be more than an element of truth in what you have to say regarding this possibility.

                Though you state that you are not willing to debate the topic regarding the Astronomical event that transpired on September 29th. 2011, and whether or not it is indeed the sign that is described in Revelation 12., (unfortunately, comparing that discussion to that between a Christian and an Atheist), I hope that you will reconsider.
                Regardless, I will post this for others to read with hopefully an open mind.

                I do still happen to disagree with you regarding this astronomical heavenly sign of September 29th. 2011 as being the same exact sign that is described and prophesised in Revelation 12. Or that this particular sign was and is, the sign to usher in the commencement of the tribulation. And if I may, I will explain as to why we are still at an impasse regarding this.

                I have not arrived at this belief arbitrarily or without foundation, but rather from how I have interpreted the word itself.
                If we were to say, look at the following scripture, “One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.” (Rev.9:12.) “The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly. And the seventh angel sounded; Rev.11:14,15a., In my opinion these verses reveal a significant amount of critical information.

                Would you not agree that with the inclusion of “one”, (mia), “second”, (deuteros) and “third”, (tritos) within the above, (in respects to “woe’s”) as well as “seventh”, (hebdomos), (as it is relevant in regards to the number of angels), that this does more than suggest that there is a specific sequence to what it is that is unfolding, and with that sequence, the necessity of a correlating, chronological and linear time frame?

                Consequently then, if this sign of September 29th. 2011 was indeed the same exact sign that is expressed within Rev. 12 wouldn’t we have logically then, seen the ensuing results of the first two “woe’s”?

                First Woe, (Fifth Trumpet), Rev.9:1-11.
                1 And the fifth angel sounded , and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
                2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
                3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
                4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
                5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
                6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die , and death shall flee from them.
                7 And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
                8 And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
                9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
                10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.
                11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
                12 One woe is past ; and, behold , there come two woes more hereafter.

                As far as I am aware, this event has yet to be fulfilled.

                Second Woe, (Sixth Trumpet), Rev.9:13-21., (through to Rev.11:14.)
                13 And the sixth angel sounded , and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
                14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
                15 And the four angels were loosed , which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
                16 And the number of the army of the horsemen were two hundred thousand thousand: and I heard the number of them.
                17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
                18 By these three was the third part of men killed , by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
                19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt .
                20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see , nor hear , nor walk :
                21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

                Again to the best of my knowledge, the above has not transpired yet either. The description of the second woe, continues on, though the chapter apparently doesn’t. All of Chapter 10 itself could have perhaps been in parenthesise. Nonetheless, it and Chapter 11 through to verse 14, all have specific relevance to what it is that will occur within the “second woe”.

                If we look at the following scripture;

                “And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
                And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: And she being with child cried , travailing in birth , and pained to be delivered . And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered , for to devour her child as soon as it was born . And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.”

                As you are more than likely aware, the preceding verses are from both Rev. 11:19. through to and including Rev. 12:1-6.
                I have placed them above without any chapters or verses to demonstrate the flow of the narrative, and as well, to also point out something which may be of considerable interest.

                If your proposal of the woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet etc. was indeed an Astronomical sign, then wouldn’t that be a break in continuity?
                When the portal to John’s vision to heaven was opened, (verse 19, “And the temple of God was opened in heaven….) would it not make sense then logically, for all that John saw and recorded here to be comprised of the same elements?
                That being, that all of John’s vision here, consisting of the heavenly temple of God being opened, seeing the Ark of the Covenant, lightnings, voices, thunderings, hail and an earthquake, as well as, the foretelling of the woman, the dragon and the man child, would all be consistent in nature? Do you believe that there is merit to cull just one of these from all the rest, and in doing so, arbitrarily apply an Astronomical alignment of constellations as a specific connotation to its meaning?

                Since John makes no distinguishing comments regarding any of the above, it is then reasonable to assume that no distinguishing characteristics exist. This would then mean that they are all either symbolic as, and representative of, specific biblical entities, (rather than that of Astronomical events), or, (in maintaining continuity with your proposal) that they must all be symbolic in nature and would indeed then correlate to an Astronomical event. Yet, we know that we can’t apply any Astronomical sign to at least one of the aforementioned, for the explanation of the dragon is clearly expressed in Rev.12:9.
                And how would you explain, or even recognize an Astronomical event that would depict the same woman flee into the wilderness on the wings of an eagle for a remaining specific time frame of 3.5 years?

                I am sorry DJ, you are more than welcome to believe what you wish to believe, but I consider there to be more than adequate evidence to suggest that there is a chronological component to the Book of Revelation. That there is a sequential aspect as to how things will unfold. And clearly it is expressed within scripture that the first two woe’s will have been fulfilled before what is expressed in Rev. 12 transpires. (Which as stated, in my opinion hasn’t happened yet.)
                As well, I don’t believe that there is a sufficient, or justifiable reason to cull just one specific event, and apply an Astronomical event to it, and it alone.

                I believe that the tribulation itself will commence with Yeshua opening the first of the seals themselves. I believe that those that are accounted worthy through the blood of Yeshua, to participate in the resurrection of the dead and the living will be assembled prior to this. I believe that a sequential order to things will take place, and that the woman of Rev. 12 is a prophecy to an event regarding Israel and that of the Remnant, and won’t occur until at least half way through the 7 year time frame, and after the Two Witnesses have been caught up to God. As well, it will only occur after the fulfillment of the first two woe’s, and correlating sequential trumpet blasts of the angels.

                Because of the above, I have difficulty in accepting that this Astronomical sign, (though interesting), is the exact same sign that is expressed in Rev. 12. As well, I simply can not correlate it as also being “the” sign that the tribulation itself has now started.

                This is just my opinion on the topic, based upon what I believe to be sound reasoning.
                Does that mean that I am correct in my understanding?
                Unfortunately “No”. I’m as fallible as anybody else. I am just throwing this out for consideration.

                Be Blessed

                • Alienated,

                  God Bless you! You are great. Where is the coffee service? Let’s move to living room for desert.

                  We can set aside Virgo as “The” heavenly sign (literal), as she is the visual trumpet blast which kicks off the end of the age, and I’ll join in on a developing larger issue/topic – Revelations is written “without any chapters or verses” in “the flow of the narrative”.

                  I need to get my mind around this “flow of the narrative” for the next two days.

                  But let me, at this late hour, try this flow and see how your boat floats.

                  I came accros this a few hours ago, before reading your post and it fits our discussion. It got me wondering and maybe we can work on it together – Why is the Lord quoted in Rev 16 with this important message?

                  Smack in the middle of Rev 16, in the middle of revealing to us God’s wrath in a sequence of bowls – John writes these lines (AMP).

                  “And I saw three loathsome spirits like frogs, [leaping] from the mouth of the dragon and from the mouth of the beast and from the mouth of the false prophet. For really they are the spirits of demons that perform signs (wonders, miracles). And they go forth to the rulers and leaders all over the world, to gather them together for war on the great day of God the Almighty.

                  Thank you John for the demonic spirit lesson. Those spirits croak their way into the minds of rulers to get them even more hostile and angry at God. God wants to see them fired up and full of the devil as they are now blind to the Truth and without hope.

                  Then, John does not put the pin down or turns to the next parchment, it is in the very next verse he gives us a quotation from the Lord.

                  “Behold, I am going to come like a thief! Blessed (happy, [a]to be envied) is he who stays awake (alert) and who guards his clothes, so that he may not be naked and [have the shame of being] seen exposed!”

                  Next, without even missing a key stroke, John goes back to the rulers being pulled into the battle of Armageddon because the demons did their work. These rulers must be alocating resources and preparing the troops for deployment at this point.

                  “And they gathered them together at the place which in Hebrew is called Armageddon. [II Kings 9:27.]”

                  Then, John goes back to the wrath of God lines.

                  Questions for me and you – cause this one is really opening my eyes to lots of new thinking.

                  1) Why would the Lord interupt the flow of John’s writing about frogs, (forget about the bowls for a moment), to give a statement that reads like something from Rev 3 ?!

                  Rev 3:3-5 “Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels” (NKJV).

                  Plus, the Lord’s words in Rev chapter 16 are – “Behold, I am going to come like a thief! Blessed (happy,to be envied) is he who stays awake (alert) and who guards his clothes, so that he may not be naked and [have the shame of being] seen exposed” (AMP),

                  What is this? This is the same discriptive pharse He spoke in Mathew – which we all say is our “rapture” ready phrase.

                  Oh, but this time, this phrase is found in a later chapter of the book of Rev and He is telling us about the time He sets foot on the Mt Olives.

                  Well, in the flow of events that is what coming next, right?

                  His appearing on that glorious day – He comes on that day as the King of kings and Lord of lords. There is no thief imitation (sneaking in the window or back door of the house to take his Bride) in the night or daylight, He is KING.

                  And, we (the church) are suppost to be with Him by chapter 16 according to the flow. We should be with Him chapters ago.

                  Who is the Lord talking to at this point. Those left behind? Is it a reminder, (insert public service message) to us all as we read the book – get ready? I don’t know.

                  I present this as exibit 2 on the table before us. What we think is logical flow and narative liturature – it is not liturature.

                  So, back to Virgo, the events of Rev 12 are a description of the signs in the heavens and express what will occur in the physical and spiritual realm during the end of the age.

                  The placement of this information (Rev 12), in this prophetic text, was to be revealed at the appropriate time – now.

                  Time for some sleep. I’ll spend a few hours on this Friday and Sunday between football games.

                  Al, are you a lit professor?

            • Hey A,

              Glad you showed up! I read this post when it was only James and DJ. I thought to myself, I will come back later to see what A. has to say.

              Gentelmen (DJ and A), it has been a pleasure reading your posts.

              DJ,

              I noticed the color connection several months ago so I was very interested in your post. I appreciate the history lesson and the additional information you presented. I must say when I first popped in, I was disappointed, you left me whating more.

              I want to propose something for thought…The Preterists claim that almost all of Revelation has already happened and that those of us who are looking for current events to fit Revelation are ignorant, wishful thinkers. Well, history proves them right to an extent as a layer of prophecy, proving it to be a valid prophecy. However, I have come to believe that it will all happen again in a concentrated time frame. When I read the history of the Caliphate and colors associated with them, the same thought occured to me. It has all happened in the past but will happen again in a concentrated form hence the Palestinian flag having ALL of the colors.

              Also, you may find this biography on Wikipedia interesting Prince Gazi Bin Muhammad of Jordan.

              Thanks for the brain food!
              Malia

              • Hi there Malia,

                Nice to hear from ya’s. I pray that all is well with you and yours.

                I am glad that you found the above discussion with DJ not only informative, but entertaining as well. You are more than welcome for my part.

                In respects to your question/proposal regarding those that are Preterists. Though their ideology has in some sense merit, in my opinion, it leaves too many questions unanswered. I would agree that many examples of what is described within Revelation, can possibly be associated with some specific historical event, however these associations should not necessarily allow for one to jump to the conclusion that the whole of what is prophesised has therefore been fulfilled. For clearly it hasn’t.

                I would point out again, what I have stated above in my post of November 28th. regarding the six (6) stipulated points that were provided for us to understand the books time frame, and as well, the severity of God’s wrath and its ensuing consequences.
                Though there may be some possible historical associations, I believe that due to the fact that the severity of God’s wrath as it is described in the book obviously hasn’t reached a point of fruition, that many of these historical associations are a foreshadowing, of events that are still to be fulfilled in the future. Heck there has to be some truth in that old adage, “History repeats itself.” don’t cha think?

                Just my thoughts.
                You take care of yourself.
                Be Blessed

                DJ. In response to your question….. Nope I’m not a Professor of Literature. LOL. Due to the necessity to sustain life in my youth, I was a high school drop-out. I am just an average old dude. But thanks.

    • Patti

      You wrote:

      “You show the time line of green as 909-11071 and you make it sound like they have been dominating the world from the beginning.”

      “Who are where were the numbers of people who are suppose to die under the seal?”

      “On the other hand my biggest issue is trying to draw the timeline of years to the colors of the seals as it does not add up. Please forgive me if that is not what you are trying to do here with the years?”

      I’ll answer all three with as few words as possible. I’ve written several long answers since you posted and those replies may have given you more intormation.

      The years posted (like 909-1107) identifies each Caliphate’s period of rulership. They are the dates that each held power and creates a historic timeline. There is nothing more to those numbers or years as far as I can see.

      I have no idea about the numbers of people who are to die under the first 4 seals.

      One more comment/reply to your post.

      The red horse – by literal definition of the word of God found in Strong’s Greek Dictionary, is – “flame” color or “fiery red” and not “blood” red.

      The literal translation of the original language, Strong’s Greek Dictionary, is “region” or “terrene” and I don’t see this as the entire earth.

      We read that the events of the 2nd seal are to “take peace” ( reads like rebellion to me) and “people should kill one another”.

      Put those together the taking peace and killing one another with the color description of “fiery” – not blood – and it reads like a rebellion with intense anger or rage.

      The complete word picture of the second seal is most important to me.

      Then, when I apply this word picture to the Khawarij Caliphate’s (red banner) who had a written history of taking leadership positions – not by negotiations or voting – but by conflict or “rebellion” – I get see a correlation.

      I believe the 4 seals of Revelations represent an Islamic horse and rider. Therefore, I believe the Anti-Christ will come out of Islam.

      Blessings

  11. We are united in the awareness that we are living in a very important generation. I don’t know exactly who, what, and how God will accomplish the final End. But I know for sure I will recognize it when I see it since it is not possible that the ‘elect’ (children of the day) be deceived. But my personal priority is to become the heart who is in awe of his presence, who yields to His will, who honors Him in true belief, faith, and obedience. And I am NOT there yet!!! I see my nothingness, my failures, my unbelief revealed through my service to mammon over God. And that very insight is God’s doing…an answer to prayer. I don’t worry about Islam, Moslems, global conflict, economic fluctuations, or from what national linage the antichrist will emerge. My concern is not with knowing and understanding things known only to God. My concern is in becoming a true subject of the King. He is bringing me to ground zero…heart on its face on the ground..stripped of all my hypocritical pride formed through years of denominational traditions. He is showing me that true faith does not happen apart from trusting….trusting….trusting Him. Now I pray ‘thy will be done’ with new hope….knowing that all of Genesis through Revelations is within and under His perfect soveriegn control. That knowledge has taken away all fear of the unknown which permeates this generation.

    He has revealed Himself to me since first grade through visions teaching me things I could not otherwise know. I’ve stopped sharing the details for the most part since they are pearls which deserve not to be cast into the mud. I have been rended and have learned my lesson…lol. But I emphatically insist, by what He has taught me ….shown me…revealed through the Word…that the end-time is not as many believe. But it will be pretty much political and materialistic business as usual…with global emphasis. The conflict between Abel/Cain, Isaac/Ishmael, and Jacob/Esua will escalate and it is worldwide since it is the original warfare of spiritual wickness in high places. God is not at war. Only evil wars against Him. It was Cain who warred againt Abel. Of Ishmael it was said, ‘Ge 16:12 And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man’s hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.’ It was Esau whose heart was murderous toward chosen Jacob. It is the depths of the conflict that will spark the emergence of nations and rulers purposed by God to play roles, like Pharoah, to accomplish God’s will at the end of the Age….all ordered from before the foundation of the world. And I was shown by God the power and scope of the fourth beast referred to in the following: Da 7:19 ….. exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet; ‘ It’s power and physical presence has been in place globally for a long…long…long time. I saw its magnitude in size and its physical power to stomp and destroy everything in its way. It reached from the ground to the visible heavens. It was multiple and so numerous that nothing would escape it once it began to walk. But it was standing still…passive…patiently waiting….looking outward from north to south then east to west….but never up or down. God was restraining its destructive desire and motives. But when He removes the restraint the beast will look down, begin to walk, and will stomp and destroy….break in pieces….will look up and pull stars from the sky. The beast’s heart is the heart of the Destroyer…satan. To minimize this supernatural weapon of death as Islam, Moslem, Catholic Church, Russia is a mistake. Call it by its real name…SATAN. And Satan takes many forms within and without all of the world and within and without religions. Only God knows the hearts in which satan dwells. And he is already DEFEATED! The same Lucifer cast out of Heaven is the same DESTROYER who will be allowed by God to unleash his unholy intent upon all the world at the final moments in time. WE have NO power against him. As David walked out to meet Goliath armed only with God, our only defense against this evil is God. The ‘stone’ that killed Goliath (symbolic of world government whose’s fullness is the clay government of antichrist) was the ‘stone cut out without hands’ in the following: Da 2:34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.’ The battle is the Lord’s. God is beyond what the human mind can comprehend. At best we are only given a glimpse until all the mysteries of God are revealed. We need not assume we know either the scope or sequence of the powers and dominions involved in the final days God has ordained for man on the earth. And as Job wallowed and suffered affliction in a dirt grave (earthly experience), we do the same and like Job we say, Job 13:15 Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him. ‘

    • amen!

    • Internet Elias – you got an ear/eye full from the Lord!

      It is time to draw near to Him. Reading and praying over Psalms 4, 24, 84 and others. Our protection, comfort and resolve is found in the Word and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us! Thank you Jesus Christ my Savor and Lord.

      Keep that oil lamp full, stay in the Word and pay close attention to Rev 12:11.

      Blessings

  12. DJ and Internet Elias and Sisters and Brothers in the Lord Jesus Christ,

    I agree with what you wrote. We can not know the hour or the day of his coming as the word says so. God is on the thrown and nothing the enemy does will ever change that and the true believers are suffering but nothing will take their love from God. We will keep in rememberance what he said about his going throough the furnace and the water with us. We are never alone, unless we choose to leave him.

    The word does not tell us at what time in the tribulation the witnesses will come. If the saints are taken at 31/2 years. Then the witnesses will appear after the bride is take home it would seem. The sept 29th thing has to do with the aligning of the planets in the sky according to the word.

    Everyone has been enduring some form of suffering. Some have unfortunately fallen away from the Lord during trials or the earthly things calling them back into the world. I pray like all saints that God shall preserve them in the hour of need and bring them to their minds that the spirit of God that was in them bring them back to rememberance of our Savior.

    We know we have entered into or toward the tribulation period because the figtree is 63 years old and all of the things God has warned that will be set up are almost complete for the beginning of the birth pangs. The middle east is in mass disaray and the economic systems of this world are crumbling.

    When I tell people in my church that we have entered or are nearing the the tribulation age. They say they don’t want it because so many of their family is not saved. Sometimes we must say the truth as we know it and it does not mean that they all will accept. But we are to have a desire to keep his word and also to be with the Lord, as he is jealous for us. I pray for the salvation of all but to say I don’t selfishly want to go home would not be a true statement.

    I long for the day that is without confusion or an evil the enemy sends to Gods children. God knew about this time and how it would afflick the mind of the believer and to encourage us he wrote us about it in Daniel. I think at some points and time for me over these past 5 years that these words were a support that helped to sustain me.

    When you pray and press in and he answers and then you are hit again. Maybe the next time with the same affliction or maybe another but it at times would have away of working on your mind. Wander what you had done, did I fail God in some way, did I sin? Your mind running down a checklist of things and then the words of : Daniel 7:25 He will speak against the most high and shall wear out the saints of the most high and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hands until a time and times and dividing of time. This is what tells us that our time is 3.5 years.

    2 Thessalonains 2:3-4 tells us the falling away must take place first and the wicked one revealed who will be the antichrist.

    I must say with the passing of my husband and God being my new acting husband (according to the word) the enemy gets away with alot less. Much of it is dealt with by God with me not opening my mouth in prayer.

    I don’t want my family or anyone to loose their lives or souls but the Lord said that my brothers and sisters are those who believe in Christ now.
    I pray for all who will not accept Jesus Christ and his word and also for those who believe and live as if they don’t. But it says every knee must bow to him, who is both our Lord and savior.

    To those who accept the queen of the sky or her husband ba’al as god. They are neither my sister nor my brother. I pray all who are lost and follow things of the enemy of God, embracing all new age things turn from their sins and rebellions. When he puts them in the lake of fire they then will be full of sorrow as their demons will leave them but then it will be to late. As God said he will give them numerous times to repent and confess but they shall not. It says in 1 King 19:18 that he has thousands that have not given themselves over to baal. These will become the brothers and sisters or the fruit on the branches of the natural figtree, in my opinion.

    They may beleive but they don’t believe in my Jesus Christ who is both Father Son and Holy Ghost. The son of God is Jesus Christ. The head cornerstone which the jews rejected. He is the rock that they hit when going through the desert lost. We are not to beat the rock but we are to speak to the rock or to cry out. He is the open door the portal that brings you to sup with him. He makes your words when they are the living words a two edge sword that can cut asunder two ways, to the cutting of bone and marrow.

    To say that old testament believers of the first covenant ever believed that baal was the son of God is a lie. This in my opinion is why it is wrong to baptize in the titles and not in the name.

    No one knows the Father but the son and know one knows the Son but the Father. He is not santa claus or an easter egg. Odd how the same letters of santa are also satan?

    He who is my God is also Jesus Christ and he paid it all, the full ransom for all who would believe. In believing you are buried with him into death with your baptism and by his resurrection to Heaven you are passed from this life to eternity never dying or passing through hell as the grave no longer has a sting.

    It annoys me when someone wants to associate my God with ba’al as his son. I have lots of friends who are Jews and they none worship baal and if you ask them they get quite upset. What rabbi so you inow who teaches that ba’al is the son of God.

    I know Gods coming is soon. How you say? Because Jesus Christ who is God said so, and that settles it. If he said so then it is so. He cursed the figtree, he killed it but not the root so in the end it could be reserected when the Jews accept him as the Messiah. So the natural figtree is waiting for its completeness of the branches. But the wildfig tree has made ready for the marriage supper. They have carried the word to all parts of the world and the natural figtree is now 63 years of age. A generation is given 70 years, (all of this is according again to Gods’ word not man). The generation at the time of the rebirth of the natural figtree will not pass until all be fullfilled, again according to the Bible. This means he may come sooner, we don’t know but the generations time can not pass before the 70 years be fullfilled. As the word of God does not lie. It says in Revelations that time will be cut in half because if it were not there would be none left. So basic math teaches us that 63 years and 7 are equal to 70 years and if the rebirth recordation was May of 1948 then? Also for two years was the men, women and children fo the Jewish linage returning to their home land before the rebirth given as a nation.

    Also I feel that monetary sorrows are coming on this nation and the world soon. This to is promised in the bible, Europe is in a crisis and the USA is still indebted to her. Whatever she suffers hits us and visa versa.

    I had to move back to my home state after my husbands death and find a new place to live. I am now living in a condo. A week or so ago I went to buy some nice things for my place and I was brought in the spirit to the understanding that money will be needed for food and other things. I also felt in the spirit that it was not that God did not wish to give them to me but that I would not have need of them for long. Our days are numbered going forward and only he knows what that means. I can not say if I will be taken out of here before his coming or that the exact day the Bride goes but I can say I agree with the fact that we are not the children of wrath and therefore we will be protected from Gods’ wrath.

    So with this understanding I returned many fo the items. Those that I kept, I kept to my sons coming home for the Holidays. I needed to buy a new coat because with my home burning down last year I was able only to buy a coat not for dress. So I wanted to have a nice coat to wear to the house of the Lord. I went past a store while going to the bank. I never saw or paid attention to it before and I felt impressed to go in. I did it was a thrift shop. I had never been in one in my whole life. I was able to buy two nice dress coats for church and sweaters for regular wear. The cost of the coats being only $20.00. The clothes are in great condition. How many know that God gives his children nothing but the best. God has always given me nice homes and closets full of clothing, beautiful cars to drive and the best of everything. buying these things i was able to have my needs met but not waste money that may be needed to help feed those who are hungry and without food in future days.

    The bible says to endure hardness; 2 Timothy 2:2-3 And the things you have heard me say in the presense of many witnesses entrust to reliable men who will also be qualified to teach each other. (3) Endure hardships with us like a good soldier of Christ Jesus (4) No one serving as a solidier gets involved in civilan affairs–he wants to please his commanding officer. Galatians 5:1 It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery. Romans 8:15 For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father”.

    I feel that we need to be prepared that when things finally crumble, we may have to endure hard times. As bankers are going to want things that the world wickedness will want from you that has to do with the antichrist and we don’t know for certain what it means but if we keep our hearts like a radio tuned into God and the soil of our heart filled with love the only thing that will grow are the seeds of our lord and savior as it is his garden with in us. He did not put fear in us but the spirit of love and overcoming as greater is he who is in us then he who is in the world.
    Men during the depression jumped out of windows for loosing their things but the things God has prepared for us eyes have not seen and with some nor have ears heard.

    The word says to encourage one another according to the word: Hebrew
    10:25 Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another–and all the more as you see the day appraoching.

    This is not our home we are just passing through as God has our manisions and treasures layed up with him. Don’t get me wrong there is nothing wrong with nice things, God gave us money to spend for comfort while we were exsisting here. So comfortable clothing and a home with a place to sit and sleep and eat are normal requirements.

    I am a dreamer and a prayer warrior for the Lord, his plans and purposes for us all are going to be used to the fullest in these last days. I know from my dream about the bumble bee and the arm and being directed to read in Isaiah that the battle is being staged in the next section and soon all things as you say will unfold really quick. Syria is now fully in the game of play, and he is the bumble bee according to the word.

    They are stinging the arm to bring forth fruit in the battle and we have been in the valley of heat, being oppressed and beset upon to have the ability to endure what we must endure and to encourage and put into the mind of rememberance all things God has given us in word and taught us through each other. It is time for the fruit of our commander to come forth upon this age. The branches of the natural and the wild figtrees are being made ready.

    • Sister Pattie,

      You wrote “The word says to encourage one another according to the word: Hebrew 10:25 Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another–and all the more as you see the day appraoching….I am a dreamer and a prayer warrior for the Lord, his plans and purposes for us all are going to be used to the fullest in these last days.”

      Thank you for your posting.

      You are a prayer warrior. It comes through in this posting – your dediction to Him. The Lord hears the prayers of those that are humble and seek Him day and night. He lifts them up. The Lord is with you sister.

      James 5 verses 11 and a few that follow are for you –

      “You know how we call those blessed (happy) who were steadfast [who endured]. You have heard of the endurance of Job, and you have seen the Lord’s [purpose and how He richly blessed him in the] end, inasmuch as the Lord is full of pity and compassion and tenderness and mercy.

      Is anyone among you afflicted (ill-treated, suffering evil)? He should pray. Is anyone glad at heart? He should sing praise [to God].

      The earnest (heartfelt, continued) prayer of a righteous man makes tremendous power available [dynamic in its working].

      Elijah was a human being with a nature such as we have [with feelings, affections, and a constitution like ours]; and he prayed earnestly for it not to rain, and no rain fell on the earth for three years and six months. [I Kings 17:1.] And [then] he prayed again and the heavens supplied rain and the land produced its crops [as usual]. [I Kings 18:42-45.]

      [My] brethren, if anyone among you strays from the Truth and falls into error and another [person] brings him back [to God], let the [latter] one be sure that whoever turns a sinner from his evil course will save [that one’s] soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins [procure the pardon of the many sins committed by the convert].”

      I suggest you purchase the book “Secrets of a Prayer Warrior” by Derek Prince. You can obtain a used copy on Amazon. Any book by Derek Prince is worthy of reading. He passed away a few years ago, but for over 50 years he was a mighty man of God. He had a CS Lewis mind (brilliant) but Derek Prince teaches the Word very clearly and simply. You will be blessed by this book and the scriptures he presents. He had a great testimony and knows the Word (Hebrew and Aramic).

      Pray with your warrior heart for those loved one that do not know Jesus as Savior and Lord. Pray, asking the Father to bring down the light of heaven to shine upon them, to break the darkness in their minds. Then, ask the Father to send mighty angels to sing songs of deliverance about them day and night to overcome the works of the devil. With the authority Jesus gives you, you are binding and loosing. Then, ask the Holy Spirit to move their hearts to repentance. All spoken in prayer – in the name of Jesus. His will be done. Pray. Prayer and more prayer. Intercession saves souls!

      Blessings to you.

  13. Dear Sister in Christ,

    May our Father God send to you mercy and grace – and peace from heaven comes to you this day, in Jesus name.

    I just finished posting a very long comment (see above) but want to quickly give you this message. I will consider your long post on Monday. Then, give your post a specific reply accordingly.

    For now, my prayer for you as Paul wrote to the church of Ephesians –

    “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed [you] with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose [you] in Him before the foundation of the world, that [you] should be holy and without blame before Him in love, having predestined [you] to adoption… as [daughters] by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace, by which He made [you] accepted in the Beloved.

    In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace… He made to abound to [you] in all wisdom and prudence, having made known to [you and all believers] the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. In Him also [you and all believers] have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.”

    Blessings Sister.
    Psalms 1 and 84

  14. Rev 6:5-6 “When He opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, ‘Come and see.’ So I looked, and behold, a black horse, and he who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, ‘A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not harm the oil and the wine’ (NKJV).

    Here are two significant correlations between this horse/seal and the Abbassid caliphate.

    * Black Horse = Abbassid warriors were known as “Black Robed Tazi”

    * The rider brings scales to exchange money for wheat and barley = Abbassid caliphate period brought the “Arab Agricultural Revolution” followed by an economic collapse.

    The Abbasid caliphate ruled all of West Asia and North Africa from 750 AD until about 1000.

    This era is remembered throughout the Arab world and by Iraqis in particular, as the pinnacle of the Islamic past. The Abassids claimed legitimacy by their familial connection to Muhammad and came to power under the auspices of a Shi’ite movement which, they claimed, had transferred its loyalty to Muhammad.

    The Abbasids were known to their opponents as the: “Black robed Tazi”
    The Abassids had depended heavily on the support of Persians in their overthrow of the Umayyads (Religionfacts.com / Islam). Remember, the Persians rode those white horses with archers that defeated the Romans with “parting shots”.

    Baghdad was the capital, seat of power, of the Abbasid. The Abbasids, whose line was called “the blessed dynasty” by it supporters, presented themselves to the people as divine-right rulers who would initiate a new era of justice and prosperity. Baghdad probably had nearly half a million people and was second in size only to Constantinople.

    Baghdad was able to feed its enormous population and to export large quantities of grain because the political administration had realized the importance of controlling the flows of the Tigris and the Euphrates rivers.

    “The siting of Baghdad proved to be an act of genius. It had access to both the Tigris and Euphrates river systems and was close to the main route through the Zagros Mountains to the Iranian plateau. Wheat and barley from Al-Jazirah and dates and rice from Basra and the south could be brought by water. By the year 800 the city may have had as many as 500,000 inhabitants and was an important commercial centre as well as the seat of government” (The ‘Abbasid caliphate, anglefire.com).

    “A number of industries were generated during the Arab Agricultural Revolution, including early industries for textiles, sugar, rope-making, matting, silk, and paper. The agricultural and handicraft industries also experienced high levels of growth during this period” (Capitalism in Medieval Islam, The Journal of Economic History).

    Abbasid authority began to fade with extravagant expenditures, an inflated bureaucracy, and dwindling revenues produced financial chaos. The caliphs attempted to solve this problem by granting tax-farms to governors and military commanders, thus effectively decentralizing and reducing Abbasid authority (Princeton.edu /Abbasid).

    When I read all 4 Caliphates and the 4 horses/seals postings, it is clear to me that the rider of the white, fiery red, black and pale is from Islam.

    Regarding prophetic end times event – I would say that the second seal is open with Arab Spring / Arab brotherhood rebellion, and the third black horse economic seal will be opening soon.

    The greatest influence of Islam over the world economy is oil. We all know the impact oil has on energy cost, transportation, food and all markets.

    I don’t know the date, but the 3rd seal should (I believe will) open in 2012 and when it does – we’ll know it because we will experience the effects in our daily lives.

    But, those who love the Lord, drink the cup of the new covenant in His blood and are anointed with the Holy Spirit, they are not harmed in any way buy the events or affects of the 3rd seal. Amen.

  15. Dear DJ

    I have been in the study of God’s word most of the day.

    Last night I had a vision that was so real I through a pillow at it.
    It was a blacked robed spirit, I say spirit as it seemed to be only
    bones under the robe. I am not sure what is wrong with me because
    when I was a young girl if I would have seen such a thing I would have
    had a heart attack.

    So today as always I have been praying and studying, wanting to know about this thing. But I felt just about 30 minutes before this posting from
    God that it was a vision and so was the vision the night before of green
    snakes wrapped up in a bundle together.

    I want to say this when I saw them both nights I also saw energy with the vision and I am not certain what it means. Maybe it is a validator that it
    is rhema and fullfillment of the word which is life.

    I take things so serious today as my husband recently passed but also
    as I know God is reveling so many things of the end. I believe for the saints that we are in the last years or I should say the first half of the 7 years of tribulation.

    I am going to consider all that I have read in this study with prayer before
    the Lord. I am going to ask that he open his knowledge into me that I may understand as the prophet Elijah did.

    I some times don’t have enough since to get angry when I see things in the middle of the night at the 3:00am watch. God said he did not give us a spirit of fear.

    I do believe that the person who wrote this study had revelation from God about these colors but I am so uncertain about putting the timelines.

    The sixth seal is the blood red moon, it is also the blackness. As Isaiah 50:3 I clothe the sky with darkness and make sackcloth of mourning.” Revelation 6:12 It says I watched as he opened the sixth seal.

    People at my church are angry with me because their families are not ready, I have many loved ones who are not ready. I pray that his latter day rain and the work he has for all who come to this site and Marianne who so obiedant that it be accomplished with good knowledge and understanding to our over coming and bringing salvation to a starving world of innocent people who are not ready.

    God is revealing so much, how can anyone not see we are nearing the end. Let us pray that his blessing of knowledge be a comfort to all in the end.

  16. Mystery Babylon is clinched as defined as a region where three specific spices are the chief exports, as cited in Rev. 18, verse 13. They are 1. Cinnamon 2, Myrrh 3. Frankincense Cinnamon is the chief export of Indonesia, the largest Islamic Nation in the world. Myrrh and Frankincense are the chief exports of Arabia and East Africa. The Nations then, involved are the Islamic Caliphate Nations, that arise under a new Empire of Muslim domination. Whether they bring in Europe into their Empire , is a war that long ago the Catholic Church battled and today is envisioned to be a war for the soul of Europe. Nostradamus had visions of this final Islamic invasion of Europe, with an Anti Christ figure who hails from Persia.

  17. Hello Marianne,PLEASE PRAY FOR MY SON DARMARCUS.HE IS IN THE 12TH GRADE ,HE IS STRUGGLING WITH HIS GRADES F .HE NEEDS ALL HIS CLASSES FOR GRADUATING WITH HIS CLASS IN MAY 2012.SO HE NEEDS ALL HIS CLASSES LIKE FISH IN THE SEA NEEDS WATER.WE TRY PUSHING HIM TO DESIRE TO SUCCESS AND FIGHT FOR THE BEST GRADES DONT JUST BE LAID BACK.THAT HE MUST CONTINUE TO STUDY HARD TO GET THE A B GRADESTO GRADUATE ON TIME WITH HIS CLASS.WHAT EVER SPIRIT OF FAILURE BE BINDED UP NOW THAT HINDER HIM FROM GRADUATING ON TIME.OR EVEN WHAT EVER SPIRIT OR POWER THAT IS TRYING TO BRING DISAPPONTMENT AND SHAME TO HIM AND OUR FAMILY WE BIND UP THESE POWERS NOW IN JESUS NAME .THANK YOU

    • hi Wilhemina

      I am putting Darmarcus on my prayer list, to overcome the spirit of failure, and to achieve what is God’s will for him in his life. Your prayer request also reminded me to do the same for my own children, who are also struggling. With all the pressures in the world at this time, sometimes parents are so busy battling evil, that they forget to pray for what is good.

      I pray that my children and your son are able to break through all the obstacles to their minds and spirits, and a hedge of protection is placed around them. And that the holy spirit is active in their lives to inspire them, and lift them up, to succeed, and do great things, even beyond what we as parents imagined for them. That all walls are taken down, and they go forth with energy and conviction, and make a difference in this world, for themselves, and for the Lord. And that they will do this all with great joy and energy.

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