First Trumpet Blows

clip_image001

Jesus / Yahshua said He would come back at the “last trump.”    When do the trumpets actually begin?

Most people are interested in which trumpet is the last one, but we will not get a clue until they begin, officially.

The Christian focus is typically on Rosh Hashanna, the feast of Trumpets, as the start time.

But actually, the trumpets start blowing before that, in Elul.

It is a time to return to our Beloved YHVH:

clip_image002

http://www.jewfaq.org/elul.htm

The shofar is first sounded on the 2nd day of Elul, during morning services, and goes until the 28th day.

This is a time of repentance, in preparation for the High Holy days.

Tradition teaches that the month of Elul is a particularly propitious time for repentance.

This mood of repentance builds through the month of Elul to the period of Selichot, to Rosh Hashanah, and finally to Yom Kippur.

clip_image004

Customs of Elul

During the month of Elul, from the second day of Elul to the 28th day, the shofar (a hollowed out ram’s horn) is blown after morning services every weekday. See Rosh Hashanah for more information about the shofar and its characteristic blasts.

The shofar is not blown on Shabbat.

It is also not blown on the day before Rosh Hashanah to make a clear distinction between the rabbinical rule of blowing the shofar in Elul and the biblical mitzvah to blow the shofar on Rosh Hashanah.

Four blasts are blown: tekiah, shevarim-teruah, tekiah. The MIDI file on theRosh Hashanah page emulates this combination of blasts.

Rambam explained the custom of blowing shofar as a wake-up call to sleepers, designed to rouse us from our complacency.

It is a call to repentance. The blast of the shofar is a very piercing sound when done properly.

Elul is also a time to begin the process of asking forgiveness for wrongs done to other people.

According to Jewish tradition, G-d cannot forgive us for sins committed against another person until we have first obtained forgiveness from the person we have wronged. This is not as easy a task as you might think, if you have never done it.

This process of seeking forgiveness continues through the Days of Awe.

Many people visit cemeteries at this time, because the awe-inspiring nature of this time makes us think about life and death and our own mortality.

In addition, many people use this time to check their mezuzot and tefillin for defects that might render them invalid.

clip_image005

Selichot

As the month of Elul draws to a close, the mood of repentance becomes more urgent.

Prayers for forgiveness called selichot (properly pronounced "s’lee-KHOHT," but often pronounced "SLI-khus") are added to the daily cycle of religious services.

Selichot are recited in the early morning, before normal daily shacharit service. They add about 45 minutes to the regular daily service.

Selichot are recited from the Sunday before Rosh Hashanah until Yom Kippur.

If Rosh Hashanah begins on a Monday or Tuesday, selichot begins on the Sunday of the week before Rosh Hashanah, to make sure that there are at least 3 days of Selichot.

List of Dates (Remember YHVH uses a Hebrew calendar, not a secular one)

The month of Elul will begin on the following days of the secular calendar:

Jewish Year 5773: sunset August 6, 2013 – nightfall August 7, 2013

Jewish Year 5774: sunset August 26, 2014 – nightfall August 27, 2014

Jewish Year 5775: sunset August 15, 2015 – nightfall August 16, 2015

Jewish Year 5776: sunset September 3, 2016 – nightfall September 4, 2016

Jewish Year 5777: sunset August 22, 2017 – nightfall August 23, 2017

The first Selichot service will be held around midnight on the following days of the secular calendar:

Jewish Year 5773: midnight August 31/1, 2013

Jewish Year 5774: midnight September 20/21, 2014

Jewish Year 5775: midnight September 5/6, 2015

Jewish Year 5776: midnight September 24/25, 2016

clip_image007

Finally, Rosh Hashanna arrives, and the shofar is sounded again, for the Ten Days of Awe, concluding on Yom Kippur.

So the “last trumpet” (shofar blast) would be in the evening time after the last Yom Kippur service.

clip_image008

Conclusion

For those that are expecting things to start in the late fall, they might want to consider late summer instead.

When YHVH sounds the time to repent, He will start in Elul, and the sounding will increase and become more urgent as Tishrei begins.

But, as our wisdom would teach us, we should not wait until Elul to repent if we need to do this.

The 7 trumpets of Revelation may also fit into this time frame.

I believe YHVH will start giving warnings on the earth in Elul to coincide with the trumpets in Elul.

See also:

First Trump

Scott’s Vision on June 10, 2013

 


158 Responses to “First Trumpet Blows”

  1. What is a trumpet exactly according to the Bible?

    Jer 4:19 My bowels, my bowels! I am pained at my very heart; my heart maketh a noise in me; I cannot hold my peace, because thou hast heard, O my soul, the sound of the trumpet, the alarm of war.

    Jer 42:14 Saying, No; but we will go into the land of Egypt, where we shall see no war, nor hear the sound of the trumpet, nor have hunger of bread; and there will we dwell:

    A trumpet is the sound of war.

    • good point

    • This is very interesting. The ‘war’ sounds familiar in a vision I saw in a NDE I had in 2011. But until now I am puzzled and this helps me to understand it a bit more. If the trumpet is a war, then the vision (or hallucination?) I had is telling me something. Indeed He is coming🙂

    • David,

      Here are the interpretations of blasts from the shofar (Hebrew for Christians).

      “There are four primary types of shofar blasts:

      Tekiah (תְּקִיעָה) – A long single blast (the sound of the King’s coronation)
      Shevarim (שְׁבָרִים) – Three short wail-like blasts (signifying repentance)
      Teru’ah (תְּרוּעָה) – Nine staccato blasts of alarm (to awaken the soul)
      Tekiah ha-Gadol (תְּקִיעָה הַגָּדוֹל) – A great long blast (for as long as you can blow!)”

      What we do not know is the 7 Thunders within Revelation.

      “In the Scriptures, the word shofar (שׁוֹפָר) first occurs in Exodus 19:16 when the Torah was first given to Israel during Shavuot (i.e., “Pentecost”): “On the morning of the third day there were thunders and lightnings and a thick cloud on the mountain and a very loud shofar blast (קל שׁפָר חָזָק מְאד), so that all the people in the camp trembled…. And as the sound of the trumpet grew louder and louder, Moses spoke, and God answered him in thunder.” This shofar blast is sometimes called the “first trump” of God” (John Parsons’ Hebrew for Christians).

      Blessings

  2. A whole new perspective and I got goosebumps affirmation of the authenticity by the Holy Spirit I love the Hebrew calender and I want to read about Yom Kippur now thank you so much

  3. The trumpet blown on the 1st day of the seventh month was a warning, a reminder to get ready for the day of atonement is coming in 10 days.

    • david

      that is an interesting possibility about 7 wars….I had not thought of that.

      • As a historist I believe the first four brought down the western Roman Empire. The 5th and 6th brought down eastern Roman Empire and later Papal Rome. The 7th brings down Modern Rome.

        • david

          when, in history, did the specific events happen?

          example, when did this happen?

          “something like a great burning mountain that plunges into the sea and wipes out a third of all sea life and ships. A third of the oceans will become blood” 2nd trumpet

          • Notice this comment by Dr Albert Barnes (Presbyterian scholar of
            the 1850‟s).

            There are four of these “trumpets”, and it would be a matter of inquiry whether there were four events of sufficient distinctness that would mark these invasions or that would constitute periods or epochs in the destruction of the Roman power. At this point in writing I looked upon a chart of history, composed with no reference to this prophecy, and found singular and unexpected prominence given to four such events extending from the first invasion of the Goths and Vandals at the beginnings of the fifth century to the fall of the Western empire 476 AD.

            The first was the invasion of Alaric of the Goths, 410 AD; the second was the invasion of Attila king of the Huns, 447 AD; a third was the sack of Rome by Genseric king of the Vandals, and the fourth resulting in the final conquest of Rome, was that of Odoacer king of the Heruli.

          • You have to understand the symbols used. A burning mountain symbolises a nation being destroyed.

            Jer 51:25 Behold, I [am] against thee, O destroying mountain, saith the LORD, which destroyest all the earth: and I will stretch out mine hand upon thee, and roll thee down from the rocks, and will make thee a burnt mountain.

            Rome was divided into three at the time of Constantine. He had three sons and the empire was split between them

            A third of the sea = 1/3rd of the Roman Empire. Sea = peoples(see Rev 17:15; Isa 17:12, 13)

  4. Great post. It is very helpful to know the Hebrew calendar and customs.

    This link adds more to the subject.

    http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Holidays/Fall_Holidays/Elul/elul.html

    “Seek the LORD while He may be found; call upon him while He is near”
    (Isa. 55:6).

    Blessings

  5. Here is additional information on the “trumpet” from John Parsons’ Hebrew for Christians.

    http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Holidays/Fall_Holidays/Elul/Shofar/shofar.html

    “During the start of this season of teshuvah it’s important to recall that the shofar is also a means of awakening the slumbering soul…Maimonides writes: “There is a hidden message we are supposed to infer by listening to the shofar. It suggests to say: ‘Sleeping ones! Awaken from your sleep! Slumbering ones! Awaken from your slumber! Examine your deeds. Remember your Creator and do teshuvah.”

    This idea was earlier stated in the New Testament writings: “Awake, O sleeper, and arise from the dead, and Messiah will shine on you” (Eph. 5:13-14). This theme of “awakening from sleep” is used elsewhere in the Scriptures (e.g., John 11:11, Rom. 13:11, 1 Thess. 5:6, Dan. 12:1-2, Psalm 78:65, etc.).

    The sound of the shofar calls us to return to the LORD and seek His face. And since finding God is our greatest joy, King David rightly wrote: “Happy is the people who know the teruah [i.e. the shofar blast]” (Psalm 89:16)” (Hebrew4Christians.com).

    Blessings

    • Eze 33:1 ¶ Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,

      Eze 33:2 Son of man, speak to the children of thy people, and say unto them, When I bring the sword upon a land, if the people of the land take a man of their coasts, and set him for their watchman:

      Eze 33:3 If when he seeth the sword come upon the land, he blow the trumpet, and warn the people;

      Eze 33:4 Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, and taketh not warning; if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head.

      Eze 33:5 He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning; his blood shall be upon him. But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul.

      Eze 33:6 But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take [any] person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman’s hand.

      Eze 33:7 ¶ So thou, O son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me.

      Eze 33:8 When I say unto the wicked, O wicked [man], thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked [man] shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.

      Eze 33:9 Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.

      • David,

        I think Ezekiel 33 and 34 are of a spiritual matter and spiritual leadership, which is lacking in most churches and lacking in many “Elders” and “Pastors”.

        I read the Ezekiel chapter you quoted as a spiritual awakening and not part of the 7 Trumpets of Revelation.

        David Wilkerson wrote this regarding the watchman:

        “John [the Baptist] was anointed with the same fearless Spirit and power which was upon Elijah. He spoke openly about the sins of disobedient, pleasure-seeking people of his day. Christ was soon to appear and this mighty man of truth suddenly came on the scene to prepare a people for the Lord. This wilderness prophet was sent to turn the hearts of the people (which is the truest definition of repentance) to the Lord. John preached repentance, restitution, purity of heart, justice, and a practical walk of holiness to correspond with an open confession of sins.

        I believe the prophet Malachi, as well as other Old Testament prophets, speaks of a company of holy people who will be raised up just prior to Christ’s second coming. They will minister under the very same Spirit and power that rested upon Elijah and John the Baptist.

        This last-day Elijah company of believers will heed the prophecy of Isaiah, “Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins” (Isaiah 58:1). These are the watchmen upon the walls, “which shall never hold their peace day nor night . . . and give him no rest, till he establish, and till he make Jerusalem a praise in the earth” (Isaiah 62:6-7).”

        Ezekiel 33 and 34 are a matter of spiritual leadership. Leadership chosen and ordained by God.

        Now, consider this verse.

        “Unless the Lord builds the house, they labor in vain who build it;
        Unless the Lord guards the city, the watchman stays awake in vain” (Psalm 127:1, NKJV).

        I think the 7 Thunders includes the blowing of a spiritual shofar (Exodus 19 and Ezekiel 33 and 34). It will rock the evangelical church, which is laying down, resting on fellowship and pleasant food.

        Many will hear and be amazed by power of the message. Some will seek the Lord, repent and turn towards God before His return.

        I’ve been waiting for this, praying the shofar sounds and the Power of the Spirit comes like a mighty wind. Otherwise, the work is in vain.

        Blessings
        Psalm 27

        • Is not Revelation of a spiritual nature too?

          • David,

            I “see” that you are inferring by your question (statement).

            The big word “Revelation” comes from the root word reveal, which is to uncover something, seeing the object or concept.

            “Then the Holy Spirit made Jesus feel very happy. Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth. I am thankful that you have hidden these things from those who are so wise and so smart.

            But you have shown them [revealed] to people who are like little children [walk by faith]. Yes, Father, you did this because it’s what you really wanted to do…Then Jesus turned to his followers. They were there alone with him. He said, ‘It is a great blessing for you to see what you now see!

            I tell you, many prophets and kings wanted to see what you now see, but they could not. And they wanted to hear what you now hear, but they could not'” (Luke 10:21-24, ERV).

            Reading Luke 10 tell us that the 70 followers (desciples) had a revelation regarding overcoming the enemy (binding and casting out demons). This is an example of a revelation – seeing the spiritual realm and applying His authority in that realm.

            “The secret of the LORD is for those who fear Him, and He will make them know His covenant [promise]” (Psalm 25:14, NKJV).

    • Amein DJ, that is exactly what I experienced during the fall feast season of 2000 while I slept. I awoke to what I later identified to be the sound of a shofar. Right away was led strongly to open the bible on Genesis and start studying and was greatly convicted to follow Yah’s teachings, including His Sabbaths and feasts, instead of man’s. I did what is called teshuvah and turned around completely. The shofar is literally an awakening.

  6. The seven trumpets may involve war, but according to revelations they are seven individual events that shake the earth. A third of the earth burns, something falls into the ocean, onto land, the Saints murdered, locusts out of the pit of hell that can not harm the Sealed of G-d, and the sky parts, plus earthquake showing the Throne of G-d scaring those on earth who follow Old Knob.

    I don’t know, as the Doctoral level Thesis is very deep, but it feels to me they can happen close to the same time, or overlap.

    If Syria, and Iraq are examples of the Saints being murdered than my guess is we are on four, or five. If they haven’t even started yet we are in deeper dodo than I can even imagine.

  7. It is very important to tie the Shofar events to our Creators calendar, which is a Lunar solar calendar. Using the Gregorian calendar which is not attached to the cycle of the New Moon distracts from the sequence as determined by YAHWEH. Also very important is the fact that the Full moon is the New Moon, not the first slither (crescent moon) as been used in the rabbinic lunar solar calendar. As their needs to have been a dark moon at the time of the Passover (14th day of the month), their must have been a Full moon at the start of the month 14 days earlier. The fact that there was a Solar eclipse on the date of Yeshua’s crucifixion points to a Full moon at the start of the 1st month (cycle) of the year (Abib). In the Book of Enoch the fact that the Full moon is the New moon is categorically stated.
    Enoch 78:13…”And on the first day she is called the New moon, for on that day the light rises upon her. She becomes full moon exactly on the day as the sun sets in the west, on from the east she rises at night, and the moon shines the whole night thru till the sun rises over against her and the moon is seen over against the sun”.
    What I am trying to say is that to find the true 2nd day of Elul you have to work from YAHWEH’s calendar and from there find the Gregorian date.
    The dates differ considerably from the dates on this post.

    • can you provide the corrected dates?

    • The present day Jewish fixed calendar is based on Hillel’s and served its purpose while Israel was not back on the Eretz. Sometimes the Hillel and lunar sighting by two witness calendar coincide, but not always. There is no real reason other than tradition to hold on to it and not return in obedience to the scriptural calendar. Rabbis will tell you they need the Temple rebuilt to go back to it because of sacrifices but that is not scriptural. You don’t really need to have sacrifices to follow Yah’s calendar. In this sense the Karaite Jews have it right.

      We are not even living in the year 5700+ but have reached the year 6000 already. This has to do with mathematical flaws in the counting, essentially it is over 250 years off. That means we are in the 6th millennium already which would place the year 2017 as an important one. 2017 is 50 years after Israel took back Jerusalem and 70 after Israel was declared a Nation in 1947… Add the two sets of blood red moons for Passover and Sukkot 2014 and 2015 and the total eclipse of the sun for Shavuot 2015 and we can see that some definite things are in the horizon…

  8. David,

    Ya, but.

    The 7 trumpets of Revelation read as judgements upon the earth.

    Sure, there is the third angle sounding a trumpet with Wormwood falling onto the rivers and on the springs of water, which seems to be spiritual more than a physical event. My opinion on this is explained in detail within this link:

    https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/wormwood-spirit-of-bitterness/

    The second angle sounds a shofar and what takes place could be physical and could be spiritual. But these trumpets are announcing a paricular judgement upon the earth.

    The shofar and the watchman of Ezekiel seem to be a spiritual awakening of the soul (house). Which is why Psalm 127:1 came to my mind.

    If believers comprehend that demons oppress the mind (“spirit of fear” as we read in 2 Tim 1:7) and that we do wrestle with principalities and powers, then the spiritual matters more then the physical.

    The Kingdom is spiritual, which is “righteousness, peace and Joy in the Spirit” (Romans 14:17). Therefore, what matters is spiritual: “righteousness” come by His Blood; our peace comes by His mercy and grace; and, our joy come with the Spirit. Satan wants to steal, kill and destroy our spiritual position in Christ (John 10:10) with demoic (spiritual) means.

    Revelation trumpets are judgements upon the earth, which impacts/affects the body, soul and spirit of the wicked, unrighteousness living on earth in those days.

    Blessings
    Psalm 28

  9. David and DJ – enjoying your posts. ty

  10. Seems to me that they all happen at once at the end: THe sixth seal:

    12 I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold,[e] there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon[f] became like blood. 13 And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. 14 Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. 15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders,[g] the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

    This is definitely a description of the second coming of Jesus at Armageddon right?

    Rev 7 the 1444000 are sealed to protect from what?

    Rev 8 and 9 the trumpets!

    Trumpets 1-6 are you know, really bad stuff as in the judgments of God.

    BUT WHERE IS 7th TRUMPET!?

    Its in Rev 10:

    7 but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets.

    Why my friends is the mystery of God? ITS THE RAPTURE! (behold I tell you a mystery we shall not all sleep….)

    Revelation 11 speaks of the 2 prophets who prophesy for 3 1/2 years, as in the last 3 1/2 years before the Lord comes. What happens at the end of this time period? The 2 are killed. SO AT THAT TIME , OR AT THE END OF THE LAST 3 1/2 YEARS WHAT TAKES PLACE? THE 7th TRMPET SOUNDS?

    Why?

    Rev 11: 15 The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!” (the rapture)

    AND

    REV 11:

    11 Now after the three-and-a-half days the breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and great fear fell on those who saw them. 12 And they[ heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.”

    (The resurrection and the rapture)

    And they ascended to heaven in a cloud, and their enemies saw them. 13 In the same hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. In the earthquake seven thousand people were killed, and the rest were afraid and gave glory to the God of heaven.

    14 The second woe is past. Behold, the third woe is coming quickly.

    NOTE THE 2ND WOE HAS PAST WHERE WAS THE FIRST ONE?

    Rev 9:11-13

    And they had as king over them the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, but in Greek he has the name Apollyon.

    12 ONE WOE IS PAST. Behold, still two more woes are coming after these things.

    (THis is the 5th trumpet!)

    This proves that all of these take place in one short time frame at the end of time.

    And the mystery of God will take place at the 7th trumpet as John plainly says here!

    • Alan,
      I agree with you largely, though I see the seventh trumpet as the following:

      19 Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and the ark of his covenant was seen within his temple. There were flashes of lightning, rumblings,[d] peals of thunder, an earthquake, and heavy hail. (Rev. 11:19)

      Obviously, this points to the rapture, as we are living stones of that temple, and those who are martyred are the testimony of that new covenant. Shortly before this occurs, large numbers of people will be worshipping a relic that is given life by the false prophet, an image of the beast. When they see the Ark in heaven they will be aware of their guilt. (Hebrews 9)

      These are hard words for those who are looking forward to a relic being dug up from the ground. Because they did not understand that we are the testimony on which the blood of Jesus has been sprinkled.

      Out of curiousity, where and how do you see the bowls fitting in to your ordering? I believe that they occur all over a short period of time between the sixth and seventh trumpet, but before the rapture, except the seventh, which occurs after the seventh trumpet, or concurrent with it.

      God bless.

    • I think jesus comes to rapture at the 6th seal, at the battle of jephosaphat. armageddon comes later during the wrath

  11. This subject makes you wonder, what is possible, probable, impossible, improbable and true?

  12. Good article Marianne and also some good comments. As I understand Scriptures the coming trumpets can only start after the signing of the “peace accord” between the antichrist world leader and Israel if you read Daniel. God starts his wrath against the antichrist and his followers once this son of perdition sits on the throne in the new Jewish temple in Jerusalem (2 Thess 2 & Matt 24:15). True believers will know what is happening because they are living in the light (1 thess 5). While those who preached pre trib rapture or imminent rapture are in trouble (Ezekiel 33:8,9). Those believers who believed in a pre trib rapture I believe will be the believers who fall away (2 Thess 2) and will become scoffers that Jesus wont return. If you study the parable of the wheat and tares, the tares get separated first and burnt up. This could mean the coming wars happen to the unbelievers of Jesus which is mainly the countries of Islam? Just watch Israel. The US is heading for horrific judgment. The patience of God for the US astounds me. You have an Islamic president who is gay and born in Kenya and 25% of the US worships him? He has stated to the UN that the US will be an Islamic republic by 2016. He is supporting Islamic groups in the Mid east and Africa who are killing Christians and he wants to divide Israel and Jerusalem and give it to the Islamist. Lord help the US.

  13. Just checking something Marianne.

    • Marianne,
      I am having trouble posting on the Pale fourth horse page? Any reason why? None of my comments were that important so you need not post them if they are in your spam folder.

  14. Here is a question for everybody;

    How can you reconcile 1 Corinthians 15:52,;
    “In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”

    With that of Matthew 24:36., 24:42. and 24:44.?

    (36) “But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.”
    (42)“Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.”
    (44)“Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.”

    Was Paul given specificity regarding this when he was “caught up” to the third heaven, (2 Corinthians 12:2.), or are they speaking of entirely different events?

    As well, why are words like “anastasis” only utilized in Revelation 20:5 & 6. and not mentioned once before that within the entire Book?
    Or why words like “exanastasis, egersis, egeirō, zōopoieō and episynagōgē” are also not present within Revelation in the context of resurrection?

    “Harpazō” is utilized once in Revelation 12:5., and “histēmi” and “eiserchomai”are used in Revelation 11:11., as is “anabainō hōde” (Come up hither, and ascend up) in regards to the Two Witnesses in Revelation 11:12., (as well as the “Come up hither” in respects to John in Revelation 4:1.). But not even “anabainō, or eiserchomai” are utilized again within Revelation in the context of resurrection. Though “histēmi” is used within Revelation 7:9., 14:1., 15:2., and 20:12., which do appear to be describing “raptures or resurrections”.

    But why is this?

    [It is] the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings [is] to search out a matter. The heaven for height, and the earth for depth, and the heart of kings [is] unsearchable. Take away the dross from the silver, and there shall come forth a vessel for the finer. Put not forth thyself in the presence of the king, and stand not in the place of great [men]: For better [it is] that it be said unto thee, Come up hither; than that thou shouldest be put lower in the presence of the prince whom thine eyes have seen.
    Proverbs 25:2-7.

    Be Blessed in Yeshua our KING of kings.
    Amen.

    • Alienated,
      I know you probably do not want to hear my opinion, but for the benefit of Others, I will give it.

      There is a time of peace and safety when the rapture occurs….1 Thess. 5:3
      It will occur as a thief in the night…1 Thess. 5:2, 2 Peter 3:10
      Scoffers will be scoffing and saying “where is the promise of his coming, and all things are continuing as they were from the beginning.”
      We are told that this occurs at the Last trump…I Cor. 15:52, Rev. 10:7, Exodus 19:13ff, Note the third day in verse 15.
      The two witnesses are killed by the beast ascending from the pit, After three days, the “breath of life from God enters them” and they go up. The seventh trumpet.
      After the abomination occurs, we have the time of the gentiles. Luke 21:20-24 (Note verse 23, wrath on earth and against “this people”), Matthew 24: 15-28, The nations will trample the Holy city for 42 months…the two witnesses will preach during this time (rev. 11:2-3), and the beast is given authority for this 42 Months, being allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. (Rev. 13:5-7) We are told that this time will be cut short, (Matthew 24:22, Mark 13:20)
      So the question then is; Is the 1260 days, or 42 months the shortened time frame, Or is this the time frame that gets shortened? Or to put it differently, when is it that he two witnesses start their witnessing in Jerusalem?

      Thanks for posing the question though, It is wonderful to make these pieces fit. Keep looking up for your redemption is drawing nigh.

      God bless.

      • Hi Dru,

        Hey, I don’t have a problem with you expressing your opinion, and you are a part of “everybody” aren’t cha?🙂

        I just threw the above out there to have everybody put their thinking caps on.

        You and everyone take care.
        a.

    • That trumpet that sounds at the second coming is the Jubilee trumpet that would be sounded at the end of the Day of Atonement in a Jubilee year in ancient Israel.

  15. That last trumpet is the jubilee trumpet.

  16. To all
    Just remember, it’s a game of deception. The Great Whore has had her sins revealed. She is exposed and many see her crimes.
    …but…when it comes to her offspring…which has formed “The Beast”, there are only a very few who see this.
    This is where the greatest deception lies.

    Satan isn’t interested in millions of blind idiots who pray to the dead every day. He’s already got them. He’s interested in destroying the works of God’s children, and doing what he can to thwart their every move.
    He cares not who gets trampled in the process…or how many of his devoted get destroyed.
    Satan is not a god of Love…he’s a god of death, hate and destruction. He’s not a doting papa that comforts and shows mercy & compassion. He’s an angry, frustrated devil who knows his time is short. Not someone you want to tick off or get in the way of. For he will mow you down and not think twice of it.
    Though few ever see him coming.

    But the 5 Wise Virgins are God’s Elect. They see everything…and nothing is hidden from their eyes. They see The Beast system and recognize what it’s works are.
    Most think it’s a Communist system. Some think it’s a National Socialist system. Well, it is actually neither…for it’s not solely a political system…and it’s not solely a religious system. It’s a secret system. It’s like a chameleon and will change it’s colors as fast as it needs to. This is why many do not see it.

    Here’s a little “story” that might help us to understand what’s happening…

    The “wicked man” is “The Beast” system…which is the religious (World Council of Churches & Ecumenical Council) + political & military (United Nations & NATO) + financial powers of the world (Wall Street & Bankers).
    The “wicked woman” is “The Great Whore” (Roman Catholic church powers – The Vatican)

    The “godly man” is God’s true Bride – The Elect Virgins (True Christians).
    The “body guards” are the original Apostles and their Doctrine. The “training” is The Revealed Truth of The Word and the Baptism of The Holy Ghost (The Gospel of Jesus Christ).
    I will still maintain – you can never understand the Seals with just an education. I do not care how smart you are. It takes Prayer, a devoted life, And absolutely knowing the TRUE 5 fold ministry is more important that most of you will not except. Jesus never gave great intellectual answers. The beast is within you unless you Kill it with the Power of Jesus Christ. Carnal means Animal appetites.
    Bro. Ty

  17. A trumpet being blown can also herald the destruction of a city/nation. Like the time when Israel marched around Jericho after crossing the river Jordan. See Joshua chapter 6.

  18. Yes David I am familiar with that. It was a 7 day ordeal. Representing or symbolizing the completeness of the age of Jericho. The Last Trump being a long trumpet sound. The Sevens in the Bible to me always refer to the completeness. Just as in the 7 church ages. There is a last 7th. Trumpet sound. And there had to be 6 before it in the ages to have a 7th. in the N.T church ages. Common sense I would think to most. A Message is a Trumpet sound of a Message for your day by Gods VOICE to Gods believers. The Word given to them. As In Moses day, John’s Baptist days, and especially Jesus Days. As in Luther’s day. Wesleys days and Now the 7th. Age. The end of it all. Now its The Holy Spirit – Jesus Christ Day of taking over the Nations. Rev. 11:15-19 etc. The 7th. angel has sounded and the Ark is here and has been. The Trumpets in Moses day was the end for thousands of idol worshippers when Moses came down from the Mountain WITH THE WORD. Same in Jesus day when Israel was destroyed in 70 AD. Now its our day.

    The Trumpet sounded in every age giving the Bride the understanding = revelation of the Tares that grow among wheat. Paul said it rains on the Just and the unjust the same rain makes them grow. You have to chew on that a while to understand it. Satan had a seat of authority as well. It was a warning to all Bride of the things that Jesus Hated. Starting with the Nicolaitan spirit of human government civil and religious ruling the people and making slave’s out of them. Then Balaam’s false teaching ended up with a Jezebel = Babylon system of men over men yet saying they are Jews or Christians now in this day. Rev. 18:7

    Rev. 18. The mystery of Babylon the Whore. That was the 1st White Horse rider that was to Conquer mankind and lose his soul in Death, Hell and the Grave. The Horse rider is the same person – Satan riding different powers that be a torment to the Church or a stumbling block to them. Jesus warning them they will have to Overcome Satan’s method of operation that seduces the multitudes to follow them instead of Christ. A Horse rider is a Power. There are only 4 of them. That is mans universal number. The other 3 Seals is the way to Jesus Christ. 3 Satan horse riders = the 4th. Death, Hell, and the grave. White, Red, Black mixed in Death hell and the grave. All mean the same thing. DEAD – Living and then dying. Dead men walking Jesus said and back to dust after your walk is over. You become dust and ashes under the feet of the Bride that Overcomes.

    The Seventh Angels message put these 7 Seals and trumpets all together because it could be only done in the 7th. Age. As in Jesus day. The O.T was fulfilled. The N.T revelation has been fulfilled and we have stepped into a New day of Eternity with the Son of David reign. This is what it is all about. Becoming the Image of Jesus Christ. Not just saved, sanctified, you must have the Holy Spirit or you are none of His.

    Going to Hell is a process of the Beast within you coming to full maturity with no hope or destiny but only a entering into Death, Hell, Grave.

    The Bride of Christ Overcomes all the White, Red, and Black and Pale horse riders. The Overcomers in Rev. 19 are riding behind Christ on True white horses being all Overcomers like Christ Overcome. Not out in future but right NOW.

    There are only 2 Characters or Natures = same thing. Living on the planet now. The Beastly Character or the Jesus Character – no in between.

    Your Character is the nature of your Spirit that lives in you. Your soul with all its passions. Only ruled by Satan or Jesus. NOW – If people want to wait around for a Coming in future that is up to you all. But you had better experience His coming NOW before that happens. Best advice I could give anybody.

    Gotta go. Bro. ty.

    • The fall of Jericho is a type of the fall of Great Babylon at the end of the world.

      • Hi David,

        The below, (or above depending on where this gets posted) is simply Tom’s belief and interpretations and are not necessarily the truth or what Scripture is in actuality saying.

        Many of us understand that Scripture states that the Lord Yeshua will indeed return and reign as KING on earth during the Millennial Kingdom.

        And “yes” I agree with you, Jericho is a foreshadowing or type of things to come.

        Be Blessed in Yeshua our Glorious KING of kings.
        Maranatha.
        (Our Lord will Come)

  19. David – Did you read Rev. 11:15-19 –
    7th. Angel – already declared the Kingdoms of this world have become the Kingdoms of our Lord –

    Also please note – ver. 17 – in the original text there is “NO” “IS TO COME” Christ has already come and they did not know it. Just like in 1st. Coming dear Brother. They Killed their Elijah prophet and Jesus. Same in this day has already happened. The Modern day church have crucified our 7th. age Messenger message and the Lord. Yet He reigns – Sin is Doubt – If you doubt the Holy Spirit messenger there is nothing left for you but judgment. You are dead and judged already and don’t know it. The White throne judgment is the Word of God – are Epistles are already written before we die. You are a open book to God.

    And Notice Ver. 18 – The nations are angry about it. And thy “WRATH” hath come and the dead are judged – Just like in Noah’s day. The Ark door could be closed already. Trumpets and all is over in Rev. 10 and 11. As in other Chapter of Revelations. Along with the Thunders and Seals.
    Babylon has already been judged and annihilated. In Gods Eyes. And all His Bride know it as well. We cannot be judged with Babylon cause we heard the TRUMPET Call of Rev. 18:4 “to come out of her my people” and be not partakers of her sins = doubts. She claims she is the Bride but she lies. Rev. 18:7 . The Bride could already be called out of the foolish virgins.

    The Revelations is full of recapitulations. You can find this is other chapters as well. You will see the end of it all. Just in different symbols. But “few they be that will find it”.

    All we have to do is look up the word “wrath” find out where it is mentioned in Revelation. Do that with everything else and you will come up with the same Revelation that I have. I still believe in Prophets indeed. And there are
    very few indeed left in the earth. Teaching this message.

    The Seals were opened in Rev. 10 and 11 – CHRIST CAME DOWN
    Rev. 22:7 I come quickly then a few verses down is the opening of the seals. And John bows down to the messenger. Ver. 9 to his fellow servants and the prophets. Next verse is the Seals were opened up. That happened in Rev. 10 by the Prophets Moses and Elijah. Just like Paul got raptured up in the Message of his day and we got raptured up by the Prophets of this day. Sitting in heavenly places. That is the POSITION of the BRIDE today and NOW. SEATED IN HEAVENLY PLACES> Pauls message got diluted by the Universal church. It HAD to be RESTORED BACK by a Prophet to fulfill Mal. 4. Which speaks of Moses and Elijah – Jesus took council from Moses and Elijah in the Mt. Transfiguration. It is symbolic of Christ on the scene.

    And Next verse is 22:11 The unjust will be or filthy still etc. etc. the Holy will be Holy still etc. just like in Noah’s day, and Lots day – same thing. Those blinded Sodomites could never see it. People wonder where the WRATH is at in World today. Just look around – ask God to open your eyes and see the Host of Heaven that is for you. Praise God

    Rev. 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring OF DAVID, and the bright and morning star.

    The Bride sees it and the World does not. The whole message of revelation is to the church’s,and Bride and World – All people can see is the World and they cannot see the Bride or false church Babylon already judged by the WORD of GOD. The Bride is the Overcomers in the Son of David reign which is going on right now. Bride is the IMAGE of JESUS CHARACTER – fallen church and World have SATAN’S CHARACTER
    bro. ty

  20. Who is the Anti-Christ or Mark of the Beast in this parable – Common people and Children can see it. But Theologians cannot see it.

    MARK 12:1- 13 ¶ And he began to speak unto them by parables. A certain man planted a vineyard, and set an hedge about it, and digged a place for the wine fat, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country.
    2 And at the season he sent to the husbandmen a servant, that he might receive from the husbandmen of the fruit of the vineyard.
    3. And they caught him, and beat him, and sent him away empty.
    4. And again he sent unto them another servant; and at him they cast stones, and wounded him in the head, and sent him away shamefully handled.
    5. And again he sent another; and him they killed, and many others; beating some, and killing some.
    6. Having yet therefore one son, his well beloved, he sent him also last unto them, saying, They will reverence my son.
    7. But those husbandmen said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and the inheritance shall be ours.
    8. And they took him, and killed him, and cast him out of the vineyard.
    9. What shall therefore the lord of the vineyard do? he will come and destroy the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others.
    10. And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner:
    11. This was the Lord’s doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
    12. And they sought to lay hold on him, but feared the people: for they knew that he had spoken the parable against them: and they left him, and went their way.
    13. ¶ And they send unto him certain of the Pharisees and of the Herodians, to catch him in his words.

    We find people every day saying, “I will never receive that Mark of the Beast” and we find those people yet in the midst of denominational systems that have already joined in with the great Beast system. AWAKE CHURCH!!! The Philistines are upon you, and you don’t even know it. God’s Word will never fail and it was not sounded in vain. The Mark of the Beast IS A LIVING REALITY, RIGHT NOW; and all has be fulfilled, just as the Malachi 4 Prophet said.

    America does not have another 10 years to find it. Its right before our eye’s and you cannot see it. The sleeping virgins never did get the Holy Ghost = oil in their lamps. Only those that Fear and Tremble at Gods word and will Humble themselves will find it.

    The Last Trumpet sounded years ago. For this Nation and church. You are seeing the results of the last trumpet being fulfilled every day. I’m praying for you cause I care for you.

    Bro. Ty

    • Mark 12:9., above certainly sounds like Someone is going to Return?

      “What shall therefore the lord of the vineyard do? he will come and destroy the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others.”

      The English “come” above being derived from the transliterated Greek, “erchomai”, defined as “to come. to come from one place to another, and used both of persons arriving and of those returning”.

      The Last Shofar has not sounded yet.

  21. My Poor Alienated – The question is to you. Were the husband men anti-Christ with the Mark of the Beast. See you never can make a reply when you stuck – This was not about the 2nd. coming. This was about Anti-Christ and Mark of the Beast being the same thing.

    What is your answer – You do not have to write a 2 foot long one either. Just Yes or No on Mark of the Beast- Im waiting.

    ty

    • Well actually Tom, I figured that I might be able to snare you with the above, since it was Yeshua that made those above comments.

      I actually thought that you might just respond with a “He did come back” or something along those lines?
      Where I would have then responded to you with, “Oh, so you are willing to accept the text within its literal sense up to a certain point, then arbitrarily dismiss what it says literally in respects to His returning after that.”

      So above you say that you are asking me a question, yet I don’t see a “?” mark anywhere?

      Perhaps it was regarding “who” the husbandmen were? Where it looks like you assume that it was the “mark of beast and that of the anti-chirst”?

      Ummm, I believe that who Yeshua was referring to there, was the “Jews, Pharisees, Sadducees and Israelites”, and that can clearly be substantiated by what is said in verse 12;

      “And they sought to lay hold on him, but feared the people: FOR THEY KNEW THAT HE HAD SPOKEN THE PARABLE AGAINST THEM: and they left him, and went their way.”

      And the “others” that are mentioned in verse 9, would be the “Gentiles”.

      So to answer your question…… “No!”

      • Oh and just to clarify the above…..
        The “others” in Mark 12:9. would more specifically be referring to the “one new man” consisting of “Jews and Gentiles”.

        a.

  22. I wonder when the boxing match will be over…..

  23. Align – You said – yet I don’t see a mark anywhere? Yes and that is why most of all the modern church world does not either. And never will

    Another Question for you – was they destroyed by the Judgment of God. Answer is YES – But what is your answer
    IF YES -Then they had the Mark of the Beast. Sooooo easy to understand. But you will not allow yourself to agree with me. Cause you would have to rethink your whole traditional theories and do away with them. And the modern church just cannot do it. They love to have it so. Their afraid of the Cross.

    Question for you again – are there 2 different place’s of torment after you die. One place for those with “the Mark of the Beast” then another place I reckon you invent for those that have not Christ – OH MY –

    I only read where there is only one place you going. DEATH,HELL,AND THE GRAVE – If you do not have the Spirit IN YOU you all going to the same place. This is what we need to be discussing more is – Do you know you possess the Holy Spirit or not. What is the sign’s that you do not or do have to let you know you are Spirit fillled with the Holy Ghost. .

    LUKE 13:25- When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: === think of Laodicean age – Jesus on the outside trying to get you to hear His voice and come to an intimate relationship.
    26 . Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
    27. But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

    28 . There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.

    Notice even Prophets taught in thy streets yet unrecognized.

    bro ty — you need to change your name again to Re-alignment
    Lord bless you my friend. Lets be nice ok.

    • Tom,

      Seriously, you are simply embarrassing.

      Whatever makes you think that you were actually sent here to “teach” God’s Word to others, when you don’t even have the capacity to understand a plain and simple post is baffling.

      Above in your previous post you say;
      Quote;
      “My Poor Alienated – The question is to you. Were the husband men anti-Christ with the Mark of the Beast. See you never can make a reply when you stuck – This was not about the 2nd. coming. This was about Anti-Christ and Mark of the Beast being the same thing. What is your answer – You do not have to write a 2 foot long one either. Just Yes or No on Mark of the Beast- Im waiting.”
      Unquote.

      So you say, “The question is to you”. However if you will look at what you had written, though you say that you had asked me a question, you never ended any of your sentences with a “question mark”.
      Therefore I stated in my post to you above, “So above you say that you are asking me a question, yet I don’t see a “?” mark anywhere?”
      That is, “that I don’t see a “question mark” at the end of any of your sentences Tom!!!!

      Yet you in your blissful state of ignorance you don’t grasp that at all, but instead state “Align – You said – yet I don’t see a mark anywhere? Yes and that is why most of all the modern church world does not either. And never will.”

      First, my tag is “alienated” not “align”.
      “alienated” because I feel estranged on this spinning planet and just want to go home to heaven, not “align” which means to place or arrange things in a straight line.

      Second, if you are going to quote someone, quote them verbatim. I did not say, “yet I don’t see a mark anywhere?”. I said, “yet I don’t see a “?” mark anywhere?”
      Nobody on this planet that happens to read your post there will see a “?” (a question mark), because you never inserted one!

      My answer to your post was “NO” because the parable itself has nothing to do with “the mark of the beast or anti-christ”!

      Now lets look at the parable of Mark 12:1-11. in a language that you may understand to see what Yeshua is actually saying.

      (1) “Jesus then began to speak to them in parables: “A man planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a pit for the winepress and built a watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some “farmers” and moved to another place.”

      In verse 1 here the “man” would be Yeshua referring to “God the Father”, and the “farmers” are the “Israelites”. The “vineyard” could be referring to Jerusalem itself.

      (2 & 3) “At harvest time he sent a “servant” to the “tenants” to collect from them some of the fruit of the vineyard. But they seized him, beat him and sent him away empty-handed.”

      In verses 2 & 3, the “servant” would be referring to a “prophet” and the “tenants are the farmers, or Israelites”.

      (4) “Then he sent “another servant” to them; they struck this man on the head and treated him shamefully.”

      Verse 4 is referring to another “prophet” being sent.

      (5) “He sent still another, and that one they killed. He sent many others; some of them they beat, others they killed.”

      Verse 5 refers to all of the many “prophets” that God had sent to His chosen people of the day, where they instead of listening to them, beat and killed them.

      (6) “He had one left to send, a son, whom he loved. He sent him last of all, saying, “They will respect my son.”

      In verse 6, Yeshua is referring to Himself. God had one more left to send, His Son whom He loved.

      (7) “But the tenants said to one another, “This is the heir. Come, let’s kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.”

      In verse 7 Yeshua is prophesying His own death, and saying that these, “farmers, tenants or Israelites” are going to kill the Son, with the belief that they are doing the Will of God and that in doing so, they will inherit the kingdom.

      (8) “So they took him and killed him, and threw him out of the vineyard.”

      Again Yeshua is prophesying His own death and that of His crucifixion.

      (9) “What then will the owner of the vineyard do? He will come and “kill” those tenants and give the vineyard to “others”.”

      In verse 9 Yeshua is posing the question, “What will God do when you have killed His Son?”
      Now the translated “kill” above, (regarding the tenants), is the transliterated “apollymi” which is defined as, “to destroy, or put out of the way entirely, to abolish, put an end to ruin or render useless.”, so “kill” is not really the best translation there.
      The “others”, (as I have stated above), refer to the “new creation” of Spirit filled believers consisting of both “Jew and Gentile”.
      The English “others” is derived from the transliterated Greek “allos” which as I have told you before expresses a numerical difference and denotes “another of the same sort;” Whereas “heteros” (which is also translated into “others” within Scripture), expresses a qualitative difference and denotes “another of a different sort”.

      (10 & 11) “Haven’t you read this passage of Scripture: “ ’The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone; the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes’”

      In verses 10 and 11, Yeshua then quotes from Psalms 118:22,23. which is Him stating that HE is indeed that Cornerstone!
      This parable is all about Yeshua, and has nothing whatsoever to do with the mark of the beast, or the coming anti-christ!!!!

      It is my hope that you will grasp the above.
      Perhaps you yourself need to rethink some things.

      a.

  24. What is the Mark of the Beast?

    What is a “mark” according to the Bible?

    “Well the Strong’s definition is:

    Strong’s G5480 – charagma
    From the root word χάραξ (G5482)
    Outline of Biblical Usage
    1) a stamp, an imprinted mark
    a) of the mark stamped on the forehead or the right hand as the badge of the followers of the Antichrist
    b) the mark branded upon horses
    2) thing carved, sculpture, graven work
    a) of idolatrous images

    Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 9
    AV — mark 8, graven 1

    Act 17:29 – graven
    Rev 13:16 – mark
    Rev 13:17 – mark
    Rev 14:9 – mark
    Rev 14:11 – mark
    Rev 15:2 – mark
    Rev 16:2 – mark
    Rev 19:20 – mark
    Rev 20:4 – mark

    root word χάραξ (G5482)
    Strong’s G5482 – charax

    Outline of Biblical Usage
    1) a pale or stake, a palisade
    2) a palisade or rampart
    a) pales between which earth, stones, trees, and timbers are heaped and packed together

    Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 1
    AV — trench 1

    Luk 19:43 – trench

    Strong’s G1125 – graphō
    1) to write, with reference to the form of the letters
    a) to delineate (or form) letters on a tablet, parchment, paper, or other material
    2) to write, with reference to the contents of the writing
    a) to express in written characters
    b) to commit to writing (things not to be forgotten), write down, record
    c) used of those things which stand written in the sacred books (of the OT)
    d) to write to one, i.e. by writing (in a written epistle) to give information,
    directions
    3) to fill with writing
    4) to draw up in writing, compose

    Authorized Version (KJV) Translation Count — Total: 209
    AV — write 206, writing 1, describe 1, vr write 1”

    • Yes David,

      The mark that is described in Revelation 13:16., 13:17., 14:9., 14:11., 15:2., 16:2., 19:20., and 20:4., is derived from the Greek “χάραγμα” transliterated as “charagma”, Strong’s 5480. And it is defined as, “(1) a stamp, an imprinted mark. (1a) of the mark stamped on the forehead or the right hand as the badge of the followers of the Antichrist. (1b) the mark branded upon horses. (2) thing carved, sculpture, graven work. (2a) of idolatrous images.”

      There is nothing contained within its definitions that would infer that this “mark” is not a literal “stamped, imprinted or branded mark”, or that it is referring instead to ones state of mind, or thoughts. And clearly this “mark” hasn’t presented itself as of yet, for there is nothing preventing anyone from “buying or selling” anything.

      “And that no man might “buy or sell”, save he that had the “mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name”.” Revelation 13:17.

      The English “buy” was translated from the Greek “ἀγοράζω”, transliterated as “agorazō”, Strong’s 59. Which in the above context is defined as, “(1) to be in the market place, to attend it. (2) to do business there, buy or sell.”

      And the English “sell” was translated from the Greek “πωλέω” transliterated as “pōleō”, Strong’s 4453, which is simply defined as, “(1) to barter, to sell. (2) sellers.”

      So this “mark” is something that will happen in the future, where it will be necessary to have this “mark”, or the “name of the beast”, or “the number of his name” to be able to “buy and sell”.

      Be Blessed in Yeshua our Returning KING of kings.
      Amen

  25. David I am so glad you brought this up in the Strongs – Now please let me tell you a real truth here. I have a 1986 Strongs I used for a long time. That has it all what strongs said.

    Here is what they left out in your version above.
    It Means – Exact Copy – Badge of Servitude – Engraving Character – Etched or Chisled –

    Absolutely it does say also everything you said above –

    A Palisade – is a fortress – like in the old days out west the built fortresses and placed sharpened wood poles and aimed them outward to stop the enemy with.

    I have sent this in before with no response of course. I am always telling the people their “Character” tells you if you are an exact copy of Jesus Christ.

    And Yes the Badge of Servitude tells on you.

    You have to let Christ “Engrave His Character” in you ” and that only comes by the Word and Holy Spirit IN YOU – The same just in two manifestations.

    Etched or Chisled – Means something honed to a very sharp point. Or honed in a certain way that is unique. This is what the Bride strives for. The Bride will let Christ Hone us us into his IMAGE. It can only mean Christ or Satan

    The Laodicea age says they are rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou are wretched, and miserable and poor, and blind and naked –
    My goodness this what Jesus sees in this last age of churchs engraving Character – not the Bride – there is as difference – The Bride is a Married woman not a prostitute. Selling herself out for any pleasure. Sell out her image for satans gains. Buying into false prophets tickling their ears for them. Satan hones out his groups with his engraving character. He will try and kill any thing that preaches the pure unadulterated word. That are the virgins in Revelation. Virgins are not man handled whores.

    Rev. 3:17 and knowest not that thou are wretched, and miserable and poor, and blind and naked –
    REV 16:15- Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk NAKED, and they see his shame.
    REV 17:16- And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and NAKED, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
    Check out Rev. 18:4-10

    The Mark of the Beast is not some manmade chip or a statue coming to life from a deadly wound, or a false prophet bringing down fire from heaven, that’s going to change your character that the Holy Ghost engraved, and etched into your heart and Spirit.

    You servitude or slavery as Paul would say is to Christ alone. If you love the World the love of God is not in you.
    You belong to the world. Satan tried to “buy” Jesus out with giving Him the World without the cross. But Jesus did not “BUY into IT” thank God. It takes the honing of the spirit, you got to “put on Christ” Paul said. Willing to let Christ etch you and change you into a Brand New Creation. The Old is gone and dead. In your New Birth you get resurrected into his creation by letting the Holy Spirit engrave Christ character like Jesus Christ let the Spirit guide him in all things. He said God was a Spirit yes indeed.

    This has been my Message every since I have been on here. It was all the Prophets messages, to line up with “Thus saith the Lord”.
    Why did Israel the husbandman that was chosen to rule Gods vineyard sell out the Son of God for. The wanted to be above God and rule – that makes them Satan incarnate. The Mark of his character is to kill, steal and destroy. Just what we are seeing today. That was Israel in Jesus 1st coming. That is the foolish virgins in 2nd. coming. as well. We must get past the second coming to “come up hither” climb your mountain is what Jesus was saying to John after the 7 church ages were over. John no doubt though his days were over. But instead he seen the whole panoramic view of the manifestation of Christ in His church. From beginning of the Church to the end of it.

    The Son of David reign. Which is going on now. The Manchild is here and is alive and well. They have let Christ engrave them to their Character and Image.
    I am Married to Christ Now, Eating from the great Feast of the Tree of Life Now, Christ has Tabernacled into His bride NOW =Rev. 21:3. He has wiped my tears from my eyes, I have a destiny NOW, I will not taste death NOW – I will not die – Cause I have already died in Christ. You cannot kill Christ IN ME – I only die once. My sorrow -pain – and crying is forever healed and the “former things are passed away”.

    This is what Rev. 5 and the 24 elders were praising God for. Praise God. Christ the Lamb could open our seals of death and fallen nature. And then thunder his will to our hearts and minds. And we can now eat the book of Redemption and receive our new character. And see the panoramic view of the Complete salvation He has made for us all.

    Rev. 22:16 – We are in the Son of David Reign. That is after the 7 church ages. Brought to us by the Lion of Rev. 10:3 – As Jesus is not in a manger anymore neither is His Bride babies laying in a manger. This age is the age of the Fullness of the stature of Jesus Christ. We have no excuse for being ignorant anymore.

    Bro. Ty.

    • I was copying and pasting from Blue Letter Bible.

    • Oh man…….
      Tom,

      Why am I not surprised that you didn’t bother to acknowledge the breakdown of Mark 12:1-11., above, (or that of your faux pas regarding your inability to understand plain English and the comments about the “question mark”)?
      To quote your eloquent statement that you had made previously above, “See you never can make a reply when you stuck.”

      Instead you start off by saying that within “your copy of Strong’s” (that what I am assuming as being the transliterated “charagma”), includes the definitions of “Exact Copy – Badge of Servitude – Engraving Character – Etched or Chiselled”. Yet though this can’t be confirmed online, neither the Vines or Thayer’s state anything of the sort regarding the transliterated “charagma”.

      Then you bring up “Palisade”, (which also has nothing to do with charagma, but rather its root, “charax”) and say that, “Palisade – is a fortress – like in the old days out west the built fortresses and placed sharpened wood poles and aimed them outward to stop the enemy with.”, which seems completely disconnected to having a point to it whatsoever?

      Then you go into some things that I would actually agree with, if you weren’t simply trying to force them as to being supportive to proving that of your theology.

      The rest is only that of your opinion and interpretation, and is completely contrary to what most Holy Spirit filled believers understand to be the truth.
      Though you have not listened to many of us that have attempted for you to see what we believe to be your error, you will understand then, why we won’t listen to you.

      Praise and Blessings, Honour and Glory, to Yeshua our Returning KING of kings.
      Amen.

    • Tom,
      That was a good comment, with no hostility, and made with many points that I agree with you on. Your means are unconventional, but the results are true.

      God bless.

      Alienated,
      Read his comment again, with the “Oh Man” attitude turned off, and you will find that you agree with more than you think. Especially the Paragraph on the Husbandman Israel. (Approx. Fourth one up from the bottom)

      God bless you as well, I am not saying this with animosity towards you, but rather Love. (2 Cor. 2:4)

      • Excuse me David,/ Dru,

        After reading many of your comments which were directed to DJ during your discussion on the “Lost Ark” page recently, I would think that you would be the last one to preach to anyone regarding attitude. You’re familiar with Matthew 7:1-5. aren’t you?

        If you wish to support Tom’s beliefs, (though many of them are contrary to Scripture), you have that right, however I would appreciate it if you would do so by utilizing Scripture itself, rather than commenting at all about anything regarding attitude, be it that of Tom’s or mine.

        Where you say that you haven’t done this, (made the above comment) out of animosity, I simply don’t believe you.

        a.

        • David / Dru,

          Thank you for you have released me.
          You in your choice to enable Tom and support him and his beliefs, are now burdened with the responsibility to defend the truth regarding Gods Word.
          I have been set free.

          I had asked you once before as to what Paul would do regarding Tom…….

          “But what I do, I will also continue to do, that I may cut off the opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the things of which they boast. For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. Therefore [it is] no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works.

          I charge [you] therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom: Preach the word! Be ready in season [and] out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, [because] they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn [their] ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.” 2 Corinthians 11:12-15.& 2 Timothy 4:1-4.

          Now when Tom says that the Resurrection has already taken place and that Yeshua has already returned, it is on your hands.
          When Tom says that the Trinity does not exist, nor does hell, or satan or what have you, it is on your hands.

          I have washed my hands, and the responsibility is now yours.

          Good luck

        • Buck, The verse i quoted you:
          4 For I wrote to you out of much affliction and anguish of heart and with many tears, not to cause you pain but to let you know the abundant love that I have for you. (2 Corinthians 2:4)

          7 “Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. 3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye. (Matthew 7:1-5)

          20 If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot[a] love God whom he has not seen. (1 John 4:20)

          14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.” (Luke 18:14)

          You Said: however I would appreciate it if you would do so by utilizing Scripture itself, rather than commenting at all about anything regarding attitude, be it that of Tom’s or mine.

          I have said about my message: It is not about me being right, but us getting it right. It is all about attitude. You yourself even said so that the Promises of God are always conditional. The Pharisees had studied scripture all their lives. They had the literal understanding down, but they had the wrong attitude, condemning those who did not believe as they did. Tom admits that Jesus is the Lord, Only a person Born of the Spirit can say this. His comment expressed this above in a very personal way. I commended him for this. He also showed Humility in his attitude by saying this in a non hostile away, expressing his opinion. You on the other hand, Come back with an underhanded comment Because he ignored your doctrinal argument.

          I Wonder what you would have said to Jesus, When he was confronted by the Pharisees, and his response was to turn their accusation into a teaching moment on attitude. “20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.” (Matt. 5:20)

          How is it that our righteousness exceeds that of the Pharisees? Read Luke 18:1-14. It is when we have the repentant attitude of the tax collector.

          You see there is correct Doctrine, which You have, but there is also correct attitude. When I confront a person, it is on attitude, not doctrine, though many times it is unsound doctrine that leads to the wrong attitude, More times than not, it is the other way around. This is why I confronted DJ, and commended Dan on the lost ark page. Think also of “Truth”, and “Jacob” on the “666” page, Think also of Don. Though doctrinally I agree with much of what they say, their attitude is not of God. It usually shows in their inability to repent, or to say I am wrong, and then they leave in disgust.

          If you do not believe me that attitude matters, then you need only read 1 Corinthians 13. Without the right attitude, your words are just a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. without the right attitude, you are “Nothing”.

          I implore you as a brother, take the time to read his Word, and understand it from the approach of having the right attitude. If you do not, you may have the leaven of the Pharisees in you, instead of the love of God. That is between you and God, and not my judgment to make.

          Or you can have the attitude of all the people that have left in disgust of me for having exposed their weakness, and are unwilling to repent before almighty God as the tax collector.

          With that, I will cease, If you want to destroy me for this, then it will only further prove my point. Now read 2 Corinthians 2:4 again.

          God bless.

          • dru

            stop harassing alienated……I am getting sick of this arguing…..it is ruining my page.

            you guys skip from one page to another and argue incessantly, and ignore the topic of the page.

            this is about the first trumpet that blows…. you need to pay attention. It is blowing for america right now.

            • Marianne,
              I am not harassing alienated.

              Read my comment, and then his response, and my last comment again. If you would open your eyes, you would see that this has EVERYTHING to do with end times, trumpets or otherwise.

              I have been coming here for a couple of years now, With a consistent message. I did not send my self, but was sent. It is easy to kill the messenger, hence the cliché. People have hated me for bringing this message. They are not the smooth words that people in the churches want to hear. As such, I have been repeatedly accused of doing things out of a spirit of conflict, rather than love, which I can assure you is not true. You have a page here that is called “do people hate you on sight”. Try being his messenger for a day, and you will see the Ugly side of people who call themselves Christians.

              Now you are welcome to heed The Message that God has given me, Or you can block me again, and condemn me, and join those who would kill the messenger. It is on your soul that you are heaping coals, If my message is from God, Which I am claiming it is.

              I do not know why he asked me to serve him, as I am not skilled in communicating, but he chose me? I am no better than anyone else here. I, like Isaiah, said to him “here am I send me”. He probably chose me for being as stubborn as an ox, a quality needed in someone preaching to an audience who is set in their ways.

              Now this is your site, and you have the power to muzzle the ox if you wish, But do not ignore my message, for it is not mine, but his. I wrote above that I would cease, (read my closing paragraph above).

              God Bless, and Shalom.

              Ma yakar hasd’kha Elohim, uvnei adam b’tzel k’nafekha yehesayun. Yirv’yun mi‑deshen beitekha, v’nahal adanekha tashkem. Ki im’kha m’kor hayim, b’or’kha nir’e or. M’shokh hasd’kha l’yod’ekha, v’tzidkat’kha l’yish’rei lev

              • Dru,
                I don’t want to get into a discussion about this, but you see yourself as sent by God to this site, and you believe that everything you say here is from the mouth of God. Do you somehow believe that only you have the truth and only you receive revelations from God and that only you are sent? I don’t believe that everything you say is a revelation from the Spirit any more than anyone else here, no matter how awestruck you are about the supposed revelation.
                Sorry, but even Paul said that some of his words were his own, not the Lord’s. I think you need to get it out of your head that all your comments are revelations, and that they hold equal weight to the Scriptures. God doesn’t actually reveal things to us as much as He gives us understanding about what has already been revealed in His Word…if we are humble enough to receive it. I’m not sure you are. If you believe everything is a revelation, then you can never be wrong, and EVERYONE who disagrees with you is wrong.
                We are all here to learn from each other and discuss Scripture together. If you believe you are God’s messenger and all you say is the Truth, then you have nothing to learn from anyone here.

                • Todd,
                  Do you remember what I wrote on the “black Horse”, when we were discussing Spiritual famine? It is playing out before your eyes and you do not see it.

                  Your comment to Tom below, for example. First of all he is quoting Alienated hence the third person references.

                  He is discussing the oneness of the Godhead, which I know you agree with, as God is not three Gods. Though he may not have a full grasp of the distinctness of each person, he is right on its oneness.

                  Neither of you are being Christlike in your discussions, and you are resorting to accusations and false claims against each other. Read 1 Corinthians 13. Understanding alone is not enough. Even faith to move mountains, without love, You are nothing.

                  Every dot of Scripture is inspired by the Holy Spirit, Jesus even said so himself. Even those words of Paul’s that he claimed were his own, were Inspired by the Holy Spirit.

                  Come back and read these comments again in a couple of days. You will see that something is amiss. By all means repent, if you have it in you to do so.

                  God bless.

                  11 For this is the message that you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. 12 We should not be like Cain, who was of the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own deeds were evil and his brother’s righteous. 13 Do not be surprised, brothers,[c] that the world hates you. 14 We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers. Whoever does not love abides in death. 15 Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. (1 John 3:11-15)

                • I would agree that no one here has cornered the market on holiness and revelation.

                  we need to distinguish between our thoughts, which may seem reasonable to us, and a powerful revelation from God.

            • I agree. This is getting off topic anyway. This topic is about the 7 trumpets not the mark of the beast. Lets get back on topic, hmmm.

              • daivd

                you see yourself as the only one with a message, and hence, everyone else is wrong, with you sitting on the judgement seat. you judge people’s souls, and you do not have the authority to do this. we are all trying to discuss the Word of God here, and pray God guides us.

                • Marianne,
                  I took some time off to let this cool down. Let’s get into some details for a moment.
                  Would you agree that by definition, a message is sent to someone to convey something that is unknown to the recipient?
                  Would you not also agree that the messenger is not the person who sent the message, thus not the Judge? For example, in a court, the Judgment may be read by the bailiff, But he had nothing to do with writing that Judgment.

                  Now ask yourself this, would the apostles have written what they wrote if they were worried bout “Passing Judgment”, Or did they write what they were told to write by the Holy Spirit? Clearly their writing convict ones heart, and pass judgment upon ones soul, do they not?

                  When I write my messages, I am led to write them. I sometimes do not come to full grips and understanding of what I have written until afterward. It is not a conscious effort on my part, though I am always conscious of what I am writing. I Stand in Awe, sometimes of what I have written, while other times I am afraid to press the “post comment” button, knowing full well how it will be received, while at other times I do not see the comment as anything spectacular, and post it anyway by faith, Knowing that it was meant for someone, though I am unsure who.

                  Do you agree, that their is sound doctrine, AND sound Attitude, as I posted above?

                  If So, do you agree that if one is lacking, then the other is “Nothing”?
                  As an example, The Pharisees, who knew the Law doctrinally, yet condemned and looked down on the masses, thereby elevating themselves.

                  As another example, The “Peace and Love” movement of the sixties, where perhaps the attitude was “groovy”, but there was no sound doctrine to speak of.

                  My point here, is that it takes both sound doctrine, and sound attitude;

                  Everything in scripture has this duality. The Law, and the Prophets, The two witnesses, The two trees in the Garden of Eden, Jesus sent the apostles out by two’s, Paul was always with Silas or Barnabas…etc.

                  WHY?

                  So that one can keep the other in check. Which is what I am trying to do with Alienated. Think for a moment on the duality above of the Law and the Prophets….You have one convicting the heart of sin, while the other was preaching repentance. Who was killed, The prophets, what was the result, Divorce from Almighty God.

                  In the church today, you have the Sound doctrine, and those who preach correct attitude. Sound doctrine alone, leads to hatred, exclusivity, condemnation….You get the point. But when that sound doctrine is mixed with message of God’s mercy and grace, an Love, you get fruit a hundredfold.

                  This is not some “conflict oriented judgment”, But it may well be the hand of God guiding you, If you would receive it as such?

                  The blessing above that I wrote you is translated:

                  “How precious is your kindness, [O] God! People take refuge in the shadow of Your wings. They are sated from the abundance of Your house, and from the stream of Your delights You give them to drink. For with You is the source of life; by Your light shall we see light. Extend Your kindness to those who know You, and Your righteousness to the upright of heart.”

                  The Blessing spoken before wrapping the Prayer shawl around the Body.

                  It has tremendous meaning here, as it speaks of this duality, especially when compared to the blessing which precedes putting on the Prayer Shawl:

                  “Blessed are You, LORD, our God, King of the universe, Who has sanctified us with His commandments and has commanded us to wrap ourselves with fringes.”

                  This is the Law and the Prophets.

                  God Bless.

                  • it is possible to have a good message and apply it to the wrong persons.

                    It is also possible to have a good attitude and have a wrong message.

                    as it is possible to have a message from within ourselves that we THINK is God but is actually just our own minds.

                    and

                    it is possible to have a correct message for the right persons and have the right attitude also.

                  • Dru your comments are too long.

                    • Brevity is not my strength.

                      I agree with all of your possibilities above Marianne. I am not the one to Judge that.

                      But from my limited grasp thereof, I believe that both sound doctrine and sound attitude are required to do the Will of God.

                    • true

    • tom

      there is a real mark that prevents buying and selling.

      there is also a spiritual mark (sin) that marks people for satan

  26. Yes Marianne I am aware of that – you might starve to death – but not being able to eat is not the mark of the beast. Yes the people that would want to starve you to death – would have mark of the beast. Just like the ones that killed Jesus. Jew and Gentile included in it. Church and state – But if you Sealed with the Holy Spirit you will never have the Mark of the Beast – cause satan and Jesus will not live in the same house.

    Dear Marianne – That is exactly what I’m saying – SIN IS DOUBT and UNBELIEF. You cannot possess the Holy Spirit = Jesus Christ with sin and doubt. We receive HIM by Faith.

    The Holy Spirit will hone you out – Its really Love that does it. Any Christian would have to sooner or later display a love for their fellowman and other brothers. You want His will over anything else in this world.

    Jesus died for all – but HE also gave them the “truth” which they killed him over. The World hates Gods Love and Truth. Satan is jealous over that.

    Lord Bless you Marianne. Bro. Tom

    • the bible says we will not be allowed to buy or sell, which includes food, WITHOUT the mark.

      so the mark is tied to having food , or going hungey

      that is why most people will take it. they want their electricity, water, food, etc

  27. Now when Tom says that the Resurrection has already taken place and that Yeshua has already returned, it is on your hands.
    When Tom says that the Trinity does not exist, nor does hell, or satan or what have you, it is on your hands.
    I have washed my hands, and the responsibility is now yours.

    JOHN 11:25- Jesus said unto her, “I AM” THE RESURRECTION , and the LIFE:= Eternal life and he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
    JOHN 11:26 – And whosoever liveth and believeth IN ME shall NEVER DIE . Believest thou this?

    Trinity put into 3 persons is a lie from hell. Trinity put into 3 manifestations of the ONE God is the truth. You are not going to shake hands with – The Father God person – then step over and shake hands with Jesus Christ – then step over and shake hands with the Holy Spirit. That is paganism.

    Hell is a reality – Death, Hell, and the Grave mean the same thing. You will have your Part – time in the lake of fire. And be annihilated.

    Satan is your snake man that took the fall into the “Bottomless Pit”. We were all snake bitten from the beginning after Eve and Adam sinned. And it was not an apple that cause the blood line of God to get polluted by unbelief.

    People should not assume things about others without knowing what they are saying. That happened in Jesus day as well. Cain Killed his brother over a Revelation from God.

    We are to close to the end to be smart elic’s, scoffers, haters of God, the Door could be closed right now. And you don’t even know it. Ask Cain.

    God bless – ty

    • Tom, “In the beginning was the Word and the Word was WITH God, and the Word was God. He was WITH God in the beginnng…”
      Two separate persons existing AT THE SAME TIME.

      In the beginning God (the Father) created the heavens and the earth. And God SAID (the WORD of God, the Son). And the Spirit (God the Spirit) moved on the face of the deep.

      If they ALL existed together at the creation, they must be separate.

      Jesus prayed to the Father. Was He praying to Himself? Jesus sent the Comforter, the Holy Spirit. Did He send Himself?

      The Law of First Cause states that if something in creation exists, it must have first existed in the Creator. Love and relationship exists in the creation, therefore it must have existed in the Creator. If God was one being, love and relationship would not exist. EVERY perfect thing has its source in God.

      And why are you talking in the third person?

  28. Dru,

    YOU SAID:
    He is discussing the oneness of the Godhead, which I know you agree with, as God is not three Gods. Though he may not have a full grasp of the distinctness of each person, he is right on its oneness.

    I SAY: If He believes the Father and the Son are the same person, then he denies the Father AND the Son.

    YOU SAID:
    Neither of you are being Christlike in your discussions, and you are resorting to accusations and false claims against each other. Read 1 Corinthians 13. Understanding alone is not enough. Even faith to move mountains, without love, You are nothing.

    I SAY:
    I’m not sure what false claims and accusations I’ve made.

    YOU SAY:
    Every dot of Scripture is inspired by the Holy Spirit, Jesus even said so himself. Even those words of Paul’s that he claimed were his own, were Inspired by the Holy Spirit.

    I SAY:
    You missed my point. We are all Christians here. We all have the Holy Spirit. But in your mind you seem to be the only one to whom the Spirit reveals anything, and God’s only messenger.

    YOU SAY:
    Come back and read these comments again in a couple of days. You will see that something is amiss. By all means repent, if you have it in you to do so.

    I SAY:
    Repent for what? Disagreeing with God’s messenger?

    YOU QUOTE:
    For this is the message that you have heard from the beginning, that we should love one another. We should not be like Cain, who was of the evil one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his own deeds were evil and his brother’s righteous. Do not be surprised, brothers, that the world hates you. We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers. Whoever does not love abides in death. Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. (1 John 3:11-15)

    I SAY:
    Are you accusing me of hating Tom? Talk about false claims and accusations!

    YOU SAID:
    Do you remember what I wrote on the “black Horse”, when we were discussing Spiritual famine? It is playing out before your eyes and you do not see it.

    I SAY:
    No, the spiritual famine is not here yet, but it is coming. Amos says it will be a famine of hearing the Word of God. It follows the arrival of the white and red horses.

    This discussion is over. Let’s have some respect for Marianne and return to the topic of discussion.

    • Todd,
      First “I Say”: I agree, but is he doing that?
      Second: Refer to number one, as well as The comments on John the Baptist. It is what you are not saying there that is discrediting, and disrespectful. Tom made some good points in both those comments but you chose to pick out the speck.

      If someone gives a quote and fails to put quotation marks around it, and then it is assumed they are talking of what they believe…..which you did above, And no acknowledgement or correction is made thereof, then it is an assumption of his beliefs.

      The following are his beliefs:
      ” Trinity put into 3 manifestations of the ONE God is the truth. You are not going to shake hands with – The Father God person – then step over and shake hands with Jesus Christ – then step over and shake hands with the Holy Spirit. That is paganism. ”

      The Words: “When Tom says that the Trinity does not exist” Are not Tom’s words, but rather Alienated’s words that you thought were his.

      The previous, Though poorly worded, does not deny the three persons, And I agree with your reasoning thereof. The fact that the Godhead can manifest in three persons simultaneously, mind you, is to say he is Omni present. To not say this, is to say that Jesus is not God incarnate, and that the Holy Spirit is not God with us.

      On being a messenger:
      Show me where in my comments above that I said that I am his only messenger, and while you are at it, where it is that I deny that we are all Christians here? This is a false reading on your part, and labeling based on that false reading.

      On repentance:
      No, you need not repent to me, But repentance between you and God. Read Luke 18:1-16 again. I myself have taken to praying Psalm 51 as often as possible, not as a work, but as a reminder of how much I deserve his Mercy and Love. Not at all.

      RE: 1 John 3: Again, this is you reading an accusation where there is none. This is me quoting scripture to back up my point that Attitude matters.

      Re: Black Horse: Define “Hearing the Word of God” as per Amos?
      I can buy an audio bible and hear the word of God, But this is not what the famine deals with. It deals with Obeying His Word, Not just doctrinally, but with Love… Faith with works. I will post the larger part of that study here, so you can read it as I only posted the conclusions for you. This leaves out some parts for the interest of brevity.

      God bless…I hope I responded to all your claims

      • Todd,
        Here is that study I did. Of course you are welcome to read it, and comment on it, or ignore it. I am sure there are a few specks there, and you can point those out as well if you so feel inclined.

        I have never claimed to be good at doing these.
        *****************************************************************

        “Behold, the days are coming,” declares the Lord God,
        “when X)”I will send a famine on the land—
        not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water,
        Y)”but of hearing the words of the Lord.
        12 Z)”They shall wander from sea to sea,
        and from north to east;
        they shall run to and fro, to seek the word of the Lord,
        AA)”but they shall not find it.

        13 AB)”“In that day the lovely virgins and the young men
        shall AC)”faint for thirst.
        14 Those who swear by AD)”the Guilt of Samaria,
        and say, ‘As your god lives, O Dan,’
        and, ‘As AE)”the Way of AF)”Beersheba lives,’
        they shall fall, and never rise again.” (Amos 8:11-14)

        The word shama above which is translated as hearing is associated with listening to, obeying and understanding the “Word of God”. This prophecy had a literal fulfillment in the events surrounding the exile of the Jews in Babylon. They had a deeper fulfillment in the deafness associated with Israel rejecting their Messiah, And they will have an endtime fulfillment as the church falls into apostacy.

        In verse 13 of that chapter, it says the “lovely virgins and young men shall faint for thirst”. Well if this is Spiritual thirst, then this also refers to spiritual fainting. Yes? Context would indicate this would it not?

        Thus from these verses, Spiritual famine is defined as a lack of hearing, obeying, listening to, and understanding the Word of God. The “hunger” associated with this famine is a spiritual hunger. And the wandering search for this food and water will lead to weakness and apostacy (falling away/ fainting). So when does this occur in these endtimes? I Have included its parallel as found in Luke 21, as both passages must be read in tandem.

        9 “Then Q)”they will deliver you up R)”to tribulation and S)”put you to death, and T)”you will be hated by all nations for my name’s sake. 10 And then many will FALL AWAYa]”[a] and U)”betray one another and hate one another. 11 And many V)”false prophets will arise W)”and lead many astray. 12 And because lawlessness will be increased, X)”the love of many will grow cold. 13 Y)”But the one who endures to the end will be saved. (Matthew 24:9-13)

        But before all this W)”they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to X)”the synagogues and Y)”prisons, and you Z)”will be brought before AA)”kings and AB)”governors for my name’s sake. 13 AC)”This will be your opportunity to bear witness. 14 Settle it therefore in your minds AD)”not to meditate beforehand how to answer, 15 for AE)”I will give you a mouth and AF)”wisdom, which none of your adversaries will be able to withstand or AG)”contradict. 16 You will be delivered up AH)”even by parents and brothersc]”[c] and relatives and friends, and some of you they will put to death. 17 AI)”You will be hated by all for my name’s sake. 18 But AJ)”not a hair of your head will perish. 19 By your AK)”endurance you will gain your lives. (Luke 21:12-19)

        Do you see the nature of the spiritual famine in these verses? Both of these passages occur before the Abomination of desolation, which is perfectly in line with 2 Thess. 2:3, regarding the rebellion comes first, and then the man of Lawlessness is revealed.

        3 H)”Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, I)”unless the rebellion comes first, and J)”the man of lawlessnessb]”[b] is revealed, K)”the son of destruction,c]”[c] 4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, L)”proclaiming himself to be God.

        Now from these verses we can attain that the Famine involves betrayal, hatred, the Love of many growing cold. We also know that this falling away occurs in the churches. To illustrate this, Peter writes in his first epistle the following:

        12 Beloved, do not be surprised at AA)”the fiery trial when it comes upon you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. 13 But rejoice AB)”insofar as you share Christ’s sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad AC)”when his glory is revealed. 14 AD)”If you are insulted AE)”for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of gloryb]”[b] and of God rests upon you. 15 But AF)”let none of you suffer as a murderer or a thief or an evildoer or AG)”as a meddler. 16 Yet AH)”if anyone suffers as a AI)”Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God AJ)”in that name. 17 For it is time for judgment AK)”to begin at the household of God; and AL)”if it begins with us, what will be the outcome for those who AM)”do not obey the gospel of God? 18

        Thus this falling away, is a judgment of the Household of God, which starts the judgment of God for all mankind. The question then arises, where does this occur in the revelation account given to John. Arguably many of the passages I have shared above could be said to describe the fifth seal persecution. So I thought up until recently. Till the Spirit urged me to look more closely at the third seal and the rider on the black horse. With the word translated as scales, “Zygos” being a word that is more often used as to describe a yoke that binds together a burden and one who carries or pulls that burden. It is a term used for slavery, and for oppressive legal rules as in the Law of Moses, and the burden the Pharisees put upon the people.

        In the second verse of that description, (6:6), we are then shown the binding of measures of food with a denarius, a days wage. Now this speaks of famine and food shortages, and hyperinflation literally, But in the context of binding together of a yoke of slavery, we can see that as saying forced labor for a days ration. In other words, This is an agreement to labor for a day to receive a days ration for a man. Now this struck a chord with the parable of the laborers in the vineyard. We now not only have the connection of the denarius to this Parable, but we also have the agreement to labor for that denarius…a binding contract.

        Now within this Parable we have workers who worked all day, others who began at the third, the sixth, the ninth and the eleventh hour. They all received the same payment for working that day which caused dissension among the ones who worked all day. Their master then replied back to them “13 But he replied to one of them, E)”‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius? 14 Take F)”what belongs to you and go. I choose to give to this last worker as I give to you.” (Matthew 20:13-14). What we see here is a fundamental disconnect between rejoicing in the mercy and grace of the Master, and what the workers thought they deserved. Where there should have been mutual rejoicing, there was dissention and envy. Where there should have been Love, there was hate.

        Now note in the above response by the Master, the Word translated as “do no wrong” , “Adikeo” in the Greek. This is the same word as used in revelation 6:6, “Do not HURT the oil and wine.” Thus a full circle is made within these two passages. This made me think, What if the oil and wine is synonymous with the eleventh hour workers. I then searched for “new wine and oil” and found the following.

        “Thus says the Lord of hosts: M)”Consider your ways. 8 Go up to the hills and bring wood and build the house, that N)”I may take pleasure in it and that O)”I may be glorified, says the Lord. 9 P)”You looked for much, and behold, it came to little. And when you brought it home, Q)”I blew it away. Why? declares the Lord of hosts. Because of my house R)”that lies in ruins, while each of you busies himself with his own house. 10 Therefore S)”the heavens above you have withheld the dew, and the earth has withheld its produce. 11 And T)”I have called for a drought on the land and the hills, on U)”the grain, the new wine, the oil, on what the ground brings forth, on man and beast, and V)”on all their labors.”

        Here we have a judgment of drought for neglecting the House Of the Lord, while each man busies himself with his own house.

        So what does this all mean?

        Behold, the rider on the black horse. He has come to pronounce judgment on the church (the house of God). You have neglected the House of the Lord, therefore I will put you into bondage, a time of darkness and blackness, where you cannot see. A time of Spiritual famine, Where none will hear the Word of God, nor understand it. Because you have neglected the House of the Lord, I will neglect your house. Brother will turn against brother Mother against child. and son against father. If you do not turn to the Lord, he will shatter his temple and build it anew with the eleventh hour workers who do not begrudge the Masters mercy. It is the Love of God that restrains the Lawless one. When he removes his blessing, Satan will reveal himself. He will be found in the hearts of those who say they are his but are not. Lawlessness will increase. Yet those who have his light in them will shine as beacons.

        Now please take this for what it is, a study making connections of unrelated scriptures. I left parts of it out for brevity. The message is clear. Do a search on strongs for “new wine and oil”, and you will see a direct link to Zerubbabel.

  29. I think we are getting off topic here Dru and toddott. This page is about the trumpets not the seals.

  30. David,
    You are the SDA one that I interacted with before. You, thus would believe that we are awaiting the last trump, and the first has already occurred. Meaning that what your writing is “Off topic” as well. I personally believe that we are on the verge of the first trumpet sounding, a couple of months away as per the post above.

  31. Yes, some seem to think they have cornered the market.

    • Still no apology for Tom for misreading his comment? I expected more from you.
      God bless.

      • Sorry Marianne,
        But I believe the following needs to be said.

        Dru, (David)…..

        I find it difficult that you believe that Todd must somehow live up to “your” expectations?

        Why must Todd apologize to Tom?
        What about Tom apologizing for his own behaviour, where he has been less than perfect to many of us?
        Heck, I have apologized to Tom a couple of times for many of my own foibles, (sarcasm being just one) when frustration in dealing with him got the better of me.
        Yet Tom hasn’t apologized once for his own conduct. Why don’t you recognize that?

        Tom has been snide, arrogant and condescending within many of his posts but you don’t appear to acknowledge that at all?
        Tom has stated that he has been “sent here to teach others”, and if you don’t understand his teachings or what he has to say, then you are blind and “don’t have the Holy Spirit”. Or that you are “stuck” and unwilling to see with spiritual eyes, etc. etc.

        Actually, speaking of “seeing”, if you were to do so yourself, you may just see as to how much what you have demonstrated recently parallel’s that of Tom?

        Can you practice what you preach to others?

        No need to respond to me whatsoever.
        You’re not accountable to me at all.

        a.

        • I feel like I am dealing with some school boys here, who are in a fight, and want to be the ones that win

          Mentioning god in a disagreement does not validate the comments made…..it just insults god to drag him into the middle of a quarrel.

          the love of God should manifest at all times.

          and mentioning “love” when one is insulting others does not fly with me either.

          ….
          .
          .
          .
          .

          Policy

          If you have presented your views, and there is still disagreement, then DROP IT.

          Ignore.

          Go on with your lives.

          You have stated your case.

          I do not want unbelievers coming here and seeing believers squabbling over doctrinal details.

        • Alienated,
          Here is Just one of the times that I have addressed Tom, this being the Latest on the “shattered page”.

          “I do agree with Todd, that your comment is unbecoming of a brother in Christ. And you would do well to heed it. As such You have gotten the “harsh treatment” from them, so I do understand your frustration.”

          Its the ole question, which came first, the chicken or the egg.

          Now I have also commended you when you did step back, and shown sincere humility.

          In the last set of conversations, You have deliberately “set a snare”, You have deliberately ignored a whole bunch of good points on his part, and his non hostility was met with hostility. Much like you are responding to me in a hostile way, he has done to you.

          I confronted you on this, because of the detrimental effect it was having on both of you. Not to mention how poor a witness it is of the grace and mercy of God.

          As for me “appearing” as Tom to you, that is because you have seen me as your enemy, instead of as a brother in Christ, trying point out to a brother that he is behaving in an Un Christlike manner.

          Now you are welcome to point out all the flaws in my approach, and defame my character, But you will also be ignoring a valid scriptural argument that I made above on having the right attitude. (One that you have totally ignored) It does not matter how many word studies and bible studies, and if you have all knowledge of the Word of God, but you have the wrong attitude, all of the above are nothing. Jesus addressed this himself in the following scriptures: Matt. 7:21-23, Matt. 24: 45-51, Matt 25:31-46. In fact, I could list thousands of scriptures in support of this from both Testaments.

          I dare you to prove me wrong on this point. A challenge, if you dare, let’s see what your made of.

          Now out of all the people on this site, you have expressed the most humility than any. That is kind of why I was shocked at your response above, when faced with overwhelming scriptural evidence. You cannot refute this, so instead you chose to attack my character, Quite frankly, I expected more from you.

          14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good[b] is that? 17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

          13 Who is wise and understanding among you? By his good conduct let him show his works in the meekness of wisdom. 14 But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast and be false to the truth. 15 This is not the wisdom that comes down from above, but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic. 16 For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there will be disorder and every vile practice. 17 But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere. 18 And a harvest of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.

          God bless.

  32. I would really like the spirit of strife to leave this page…and other pages too.

    Humans who are strife free are welcome to stay

    But all spirits gotta go……except the holy spirit , of course

  33. I am tired, and will take a short nap.

    when I wake up, if I see any more arguments, I am going to delete them.

  34. A Church that is without understanding:
    Marianne – this be my last comment on the latest subject – I got to thinking about the word “Tenacious” well that is just a dogmatic person. But is has “nothing to do with ones personality of Character” – The Soul – Passions that Jesus said – its those things that come out of you that defile you.

    Words of the Master
    MATT 15:10 – And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
    MATT 15:11 – Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that “which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth”

    MARK 7:18- And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him;
    MARK 7:19- Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?
    MARK 7:20- And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man.

    JAMES 3:5- Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
    JAMES 3:6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
    JAMES 3:7- For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:
    JAMES 3:8- But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
    JAMES 3:9 -Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
    JAMES 3:10- Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
    JAMES 3:11- Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?
    JAMES 3:12- Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.
    JAMES 3:13- ¶ Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
    JAMES 3:14- But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
    JAMES 3:15- This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
    JAMES 3:16 – For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
    JAMES 3:17 – But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
    JAMES 3:18 – And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.

    When brothers? Get together against a person – and say “ we do not want you here – go away – we do not believe what you say – Your not wanted – you ole hippy – pin head – your stupid and have no education – on and on and on for almost a year – And the Pastor of the forum says absolutely nothing to help.

    Everybody makes some mistakes and get frustrated. But I have always been a patient man. Moses was the Most meekest man on earth. But you could get him very upset as well. Same with Prophets and most of all Jesus Christ. God knows the Heart of man by the fruit that comes out of his lips in a continuance barrage of snive, smart elic remarks and not one can tame this man’s mouth. So You try and get away from him but like a bad habit he just keeps messing with you . Till you quit. The Pastor should be able to see these things and do something about it. Instead of saying “ I will konk you on top of your head” laughing with him.
    Its not Tenacious – it’s a self willed person that is controlled by a demon.

    I’m done

    • I would agree with this.

      People are also responsible for their own behavior.

      only so much babysitting should be necessary among adults.

      I am not here 24/7.

      People come in from different time zones, and many times comments are made while I am asleep, or away from the computer.

      I think you have been very patient. You have atypical views which take a different mindset to understand. Some can see what you see and some cannot.

      But courtesy and understanding and kindness should prevail.

    • Tom,

      Before you go I am going to say that I agree with what you are saying, but you are not guiltless in any of this. You have judged, condemned, falsely accused, called us heretics and apostates who have no understanding, and treated some with a condescending attitude. I think what some are reacting to your judging of the status of our souls. We are saved by grace through faith just as you are. We are crucifying the flesh (or trying) just as you are. We know we are saved, we understand that the Kingdom exists now and we know that our spirits are reborn and that we are seated in heavenly places, hidden with Christ in God. We just don’t believe that the Bible teaches that the Kingdom is consummated yet. That doesn’t make us “swine talkers,” heretics, lacking understanding, sinners bound for the Lake of Fire, or any of the other judgements you made about us.

      As for that “old man,” he is in all of us and rears his ugly head at times, and that includes you. That is why Jesus said we must take up our cross daily.

      God created Adam’s physical body out of the dust of the earth. He breathed into him the breath of life. Adam experience the first spiritual birth and he became a living soul. Because of sin, Adam’s spirit died.
      After Jesus’ resurrection, Jesus breathed on His disciples and said, “Receive the Spirit. Jesus’ disciples experienced the first spiritual REbirth. They were born anew, born again and became living souls just as Adam had.

      What most fail to understand is that NO ONE has ever eaten from the Tree of Life. The Tree of Life brings immortality to the body, soul, and spirit. Notice that God said that if Adam and Eve had reached out to eat from the Tree of Life, that they would live forever? How could they live forever if they were now spiritually dead? How could they live forever is Jesus hadn’t yet died to forgive their transgression, and hadn’t yet risen from the dead to glorify them?
      When God said they would live forever, he meant that they would live forever in a physical body, but in a state of spiritual death.

      Jesus has breathed into us the Spirit, and we have been made new creations in Him. Our spirits have been raise up and it is “very good.” But it is not perfect. Perfection will come when our physical bodies are made immortal and undying at Jesus’ Second Coming. We will then eat from the Tree of Life for the first time and we will be clothed with immortality.

      I agree that we have experience a spiritual resurrection, but that spiritual resurrection has not made our bodies immortal. They feel pain. They bleed. They wear put and get sick. They are subject to death and decay.

      When the Last Trumpet blows we will receive a body like that of Jesus. Do you actually believe that after His resurrection Jesus could actually bleed and feel pain, get weary and tire, get sick or die? Then how can you say that you have a body like His? Is the pain, sickness, death and decay just an illusion? Does faith make it go away?

      Jesus said He would not drink of the fruit of the vine again until He drinks it anew in the Kingdom. We see Him now with eyes of faith, but soon we will see Him Face to Face, when our Atonement is complete and the Kingdom which now exists and is continually growing, is consummated. (Remember, it takes time for mustard seed to grow into a tree that fills the entire garden.)
      That is what we eagerly wait for when the Last Trumpet blows.

      toddott

      p.s. I am not Dru, Alienated, Align or anyone else. At times it seemed you would get confused about who is posting and end up responding to the wrong post. And then you would accuse us of trying to trick you. No one here was trying to trick you.

      See ya later (at the Rapture).

      • I hope this discussion ends well.

        People here have the right to be wrong, but there should be no personal attacks.

        I also think tom should consider other viewpoints other than his own, and see their value.

        • Marianne,
          I think it’s over, but I don’t think it ended well. People who leave this forum in a huff, as Don and Tom have, remind me of my childhood when I would get mad, pick up my toys and tell my friend I never wanted to play with him again, and run off. And I think there’s some unforgiveness in it also.

          I’m sorry your forum was ruined by such a poor witness of Jesus’ love.

  35. There’s nothing I disagreed with on any of your post if I don’t understand then I look it up if I still don’t under stand I pray on it time is to short these things are happening around us ever were in front of are faces and yet we don’t see them all at once because we don’t want to see like if we don’t see it will go away but the fact is its not it’s only going to get worst

  36. This is not related to the topic of this page, nor is it directly intended for anyone in particular.
    It is though for anyone that has the belief that “satan” is some sort of human manifestation, or moral force of evil, rather than a singular entity and adversary of God the Father, with personality, mind and will.

    satan was pre-existent. He was created and existed in the heavenly realm before the creation of the world.
    Within heaven there are Cherubim, Seraphim, Angels and Archangels, and satan when he was created was perhaps the most magnificent.

    In Ezekiel 28:12-15., God refers to him as the king of Tyre, (where in Ezekiel 28:1-11., the beast is referred to as the prince). And in verses 12 through 15 God describes satan as being, “The seal of perfection, Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty. He was in Eden, the garden of God; Every precious stone [was] your covering: The sardius, topaz, and diamond, Beryl, onyx, and jasper, Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold. The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes Was prepared for you on the day you were created. You [were] the anointed cherub who covers; I established you; You were on the holy mountain of God; You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones. You [were] perfect in your ways from the day you were created, Till iniquity was found in you.”

    None of the above could describe a mere human being.

    His downfall was that of pride.
    Ezekiel 28:16-19.;

    “By the abundance of your trading You became filled with violence within, And you sinned; Therefore I cast you as a profane thing Out of the mountain of God; And I destroyed you, O covering cherub, From the midst of the fiery stones. Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor; I cast you to the ground, I laid you before kings, That they might gaze at you. You defiled your sanctuaries By the multitude of your iniquities, By the iniquity of your trading; Therefore I brought fire from your midst; It devoured you, And I turned you to ashes upon the earth In the sight of all who saw you. All who knew you among the peoples are astonished at you; You have become a horror, And [shall be] no more forever.”

    In Isaiah 14:4., satan is referred to as the king of Babylon, and what God says through Ezekiel is echoed again.
    Isaiah 14:12-14.;
    “How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [How] you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations! For you have said in your heart: ‘I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.”

    For those that believe that “satan” is merely a negative moral force of man, then that would have to also mean that Yeshua had within Himself this same evil force or nature. Because that would mean that while in the wilderness, Yeshua was tempted by Himself and that of His evil nature, rather than from an entirely different entity. That then would also mean that Yeshua, (being God in the Flesh), told Himself that He would receive everything, if He would worship what would be God or Himself. And as confusing as that sounds, it is because in my opinion, it is a ridiculous theology to hold.

    Matthew 4:9.;

    “And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, “if” thou wilt fall down and worship me.”

    satan is a created being, that became prideful, and was then cast down by God and is now the leader and primary adversary of God.

    Just something to consider.
    Be Blessed in Yeshua the KING of Glory Who will destroy him with the Brightness of His Coming.
    Amen.

  37. http://tu.tv/videos/lena-maria-klingvall-conference-la-ciu
    lena maria ‘s story

  38. Mohammed said some interesting things about the trumpet blowing…I think he knew he was the beast devil..

    [20.102] On the day when the trumpet shall be blown, and We will gather the guilty, blue-eyed, on that day
    [20.103] They shall consult together secretly: You did tarry but ten (centuries).
    [20.104] We know best what they say, when the fairest of them in course would say: You tarried but a day.

    A day is as a thousand years…
    Mohammed tarried about ten centuries
    The beast of Rev 13 is locked up in the pit for about 10 centuries and then he is loosed to deceive the world again…revelation 20-8..

    To gather the blue eyed- The blue eyed are guilty of being Christian or non Islamic…and non Arabic-brown eyes.

    He tells us in Koran 69 about the two books that in which men are gathered when the trumpet is blown …..The Koran and the gospel of Christ…The Koran is the book in the right hand ..It is also the mark of the Beast in the right hand…

    69.13] And when the trumpet is blown with a single blast,
    [69.14] And the earth and the mountains are borne away and crushed with a single crushing.
    [69.15] On that day shall the great event come to pass,
    [69.16] And the heaven shall cleave asunder, so that on that day it shall be frail,
    [69.17] And the angels shall be on the sides thereof; and above ) I them eight shall bear on that day your Lord’s power.
    [69.18] On that day you shall be exposed to view– no secret of yours shall remain hidden.
    [69.19] Then as for him who is given his book in his right hand, he will say: Lo! Read my book:
    [69.20] Surely I knew that I shall meet my account.
    [69.21] So he shall be in a life of pleasure,
    [69.22] In a lofty garden,
    [69.23] The fruits of which are near at hand:
    [69.24] Eat and drink pleasantly for what you did beforehand in the days gone by.
    [69.25] And as for him who is given his book in his left hand he shall say: O would that my book had never been given me:
    [69.26] And I had not known what my account was:
    [69.27] O would that it had made an end (of me):

  39. Hi all, here is my take on the 7 Trumpets:

    Trumpet #1 – Rev. 8:7 – “The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mixed with blood, and they were cast upon the earth; and the third part of the trees was burnt up and all green grass was burnt up..” This seemingly describes a Massive Solar Storm (which all NASA / scientists are predicting will come our way shortly).

    Trumpet #2 – Rev. 8:8-9 – “And the second angel sounded, and as it were, a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea; and the third part of the sea became blood.” This describes a major volcanic eruption (Mt. Vesuvius?) exploding causing untold damage. I have been to this region in Italy and there is a very large population that lives right at the base of Vesuvius and all around its’ vicinity. .. no coincidence perhaps that Vesuvius is the symbol of Rome

    Trumpet #3 – Rev. 8:10 – And the third angel sounded and there was a great star from heaven, burning as though it were a lamp, and it fell upon the their part of the rivers, and upon the mountain of waters. And the name of the star is Wormwood; and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters because they were made bitter.” This points to the great asteroid that modern scientists have named Wormwood. They recognize that this asteroid is poised to cause great destruction to the earth.

    Trumpet #4 – Rev. 8:12-13 – “And the fourth angel sounded and the third part of the sun was smitten and the third part of the moon and the third part of the stars, so that the third part of them was darkened and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise and I beheld and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven saying “Woe, Woe, Woe to the inhabitants of earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels which are yet to sound!.” This points to the great cosmic debris waste caused by the asteroid’s impact – the sun and moon now become clouded over and can no longer produce their natural light.

    Trumpet #5 – Rev. 9: 1-12 – This is far too long, so I won’t type it in here other than to say this Trumpet signals a massive Swarm of Locusts that viciously attack various parts of the Earth, causing a wake of untold destruction in their path to crops and food storage. The locusts are described as “men prepared unto battle”. This speaks to the almost surreal nature of these locusts – Deadly Super Bugs which have developed in the diseased climate of Earth.

    Trumpet #6 – Rev. 9:13-21 – This also is a very long description of this trumpet but suffice it to say, it is describing a massive army from the Far East (China perhaps – fueled by Russia). They slay a “third part” of the Earth’s men. This appears that China capitalizes on the state of chaos and marches on the Middle East – specifically Israel is their prime target.

    Trumpet #7 – Rev. 11: 15-19 – Again very long verses, but in a nutshell this describes unbelievers reactions to the Rapture “… And the nations were angry why the wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and the Thou should give reward unto thy servants, the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great, and should destroy them who destroy the earth….”

    So, from my perspective, the trumpets describe actual events and the trumpets actually sound, however, the only one that will be heard worldwide is the 7th trumpet.

    I’ll send another post about NASA and other scientific organizations that discovered in 2007 that stars emit audible radio waves…so due to the environmental / cosmic ‘meltdown’ that comes at this point, exploding stars will emit a chorus of audible radio waves across the globe.

    See you on the next post.

    Thanks for you time, Mary Anne

  40. I agree that the Trumpets have a purposeful degree of symbolism – the Bible is filled with symbolism – symbolism that we are compelled to examine in order to uncover the truths associated with them. What is lacking here in your statement is the understanding that the symbolism points to real events in our modern times.

    Are you saying that we today – who certainly exceed ancient Rome in terms of depravity, decadence and moral decay are now free and clear of God’s judgment? This is naive. Did you know that scientists have developed a “mechanical womb” that they have successfully tested with sharks – the purpose being that a mother’s womb will not be necessary to grow an embryo? The purpose is to use this device with humans. This is just one example of the atrocities that our current civilization has planned. Have we not exceeded Rome or any other civilization in our sin against God and creation? It would be a stretch to say that we have not.

    Most people would like the comforting (and convenient) notion that the Scrolls / Trumpets / Bowls of Wrath discussed in Revelation are targeted the ‘ancients’ who have nothing to do with us. Rome and other ancient civilizations very well have felt severe judgments from God due to their sinful ways, but most believers today agree that both the Bible Old and New Testaments are expressly targeted to the times we live in NOW. The Apostle Paul refers very specifically to the “Last Trump” – which is the 7th Trumpet.

    Difficult to wrap our heads around because no one wants to see any bad or really scary things happen – let alone experience the final judgment of God – but the End Times / Rapture are clearly intermingled in these and all prophecies and the Rapture has not occurred yet…nor have the 1-6 Trumpets although, Trumpet #1 is close at hand. Scientists, not religious or spiritual folk, will tell you that.

  41. Hi folks, here is the information about the audible radio waves that I mentioned in a previous post:

    Zechariah 14:7 – “But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.”

    This verse sounds like it is a description of those early morning hours (3am -4 am-ish) – which are not technically considered day hours yet are not considered night either…this is that in-between ‘twilight’ period between day and night. This Bible verse seems to be telling us that at a time when it is normally dark – it will be light (pre-dawn).

    And at this time, will the “Dawn Chorus” be the 7th Trumpet be heard across the world? Now, given we all live in different time zones where when it is night somewhere, it is day somewhere else, my strong inclination is that this describes the Rapture event as happening within the context of early pre-dawn hours in Israel (since the entire Bible is written from Israel’s point of view – we just need to factor in our own time zone). I believe Jesus was referring to ‘time zone’ aspect when he referred to people’s activities that will be taking place when the Rapture occurs – (i.e. – “2 shall be grinding at the mill” or “2 shall be in the field” – daylight activities or “2 men shall be in a bed” – nighttime activities. To me, this is accounting for different time zones across the world when the Rapture occurs.

    If you go to the website below, by clicking on wav or mp3, you will hear the chorus sound – audible radio waves emitted by stars. Imagine this sound magnified and transmitted across the globe…Information from the article:

    “Sounds of Space: New ‘Chorus’ Recording By RBSP’s EMFISIS Instrument
    09.13.12

    Audio (wav or mp3) of the phenomenon known as “chorus” radio waves within Earth’s magnetosphere that are audible to the human ear, as recorded on Sept. 5, 2012, by RBSP’s Electric and Magnetic Field Instrument Suite and Integrated Science (EMFISIS). Five six-second “events” are captured in this sample, and they are played end-to-end, one right after the other, without gaps. Credit: University of Iowa

    Researchers from the Electric and Magnetic Field Instrument Suite and Integrated Science (EMFISIS) team at the University of Iowa have released a new recording of an intriguing and well-known phenomenon known as “chorus,” made on Sept. 5, 2012. The Waves tri-axial search coil magnetometer and receiver of EMFISIS captured several notable peak radio wave events in the magnetosphere that surrounds the Earth. The radio waves, which are at frequencies that are audible to the human ear, are emitted by the energetic particles in the Earth’s magnetosphere.

    “People have known about chorus for decades,” says EMFISIS principal investigator Craig Kletzing, of the University of Iowa. “Radio receivers are used to picking it up, and it sounds a lot like birds chirping. It was often more easily picked up in the mornings, which along with the chirping sound is why it’s sometimes referred to as ‘dawn chorus.’”.

    http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/rbsp/news/emfisis-chorus.html

    My sole point here is that I believe regardless through which mechanism we hear this trumpet, it will be transmitted across the globe & believers will clearly know the sound is the 7th Trumpet.

    As Paul tells us – 1 Corinthians 15:52 – “In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed”.

  42. Hi Marianne,

    Yeah, you know, I think you’re right. In thinking more about the time of day and what the Scriptures allude to, it does sound like this will occur at dusk (twilight) rather than at dawn. I agree that the timing will be relative to Israel time, at their dusk. I think that entire day itself will be like no other…:

    Amos 8:9 – “In that day,” declares the Sovereign LORD, “I will make the sun go down at noon and darken the earth in broad daylight”. It almost sounds like that day will be “flipped” – dark during the day and eerily light at dusk -but without natural moonlight.

    Matthew 24:29 – “Immediately after the distress of those days “‘the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.”

    I also agree with you, by the way, that the first Trumpet (seemingly, a solar event that will disrupt communications?) is not that far away…many scientists have said this but laymen (like me!) also can see that recent climate / cosmic changes have taken a very disturbing turn over the past 2-3 years…

    Nonetheless, let us be joyful and lay aside every weight!

    Hebrews 12:1 – “Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us. Looking to Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.”

    Have a great day!

    • there is a passage from Isaiah 24 that describes the Lord flipping the world upside down during the day of the Lord….maybe at that time, we suddenly lose about 12 hours in that day. where dawn becomes dusk and dusk becomes dawn….that would certainly wake people up.

  43. Yes, a major wake-up call for sure!

    Here are the verses to which you refer: the shifting of earth’s poles is certainly implied here:

    ISAIAH 24:1 “Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.

    ISAIAH 24:19 The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly.

    ISAIAH 24:20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard , and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall , and not rise again.”

    Certainly something to think hard about and pray about…

    • Mary Anne
      Isa 24:1 that you refere to is a translation for King James version. All other translations says something else. It doesn´t say turn it upside down in all my translations.

  44. 1st. 4 horse Riders – explained
    Rev. 6:1- ¶ And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see. = notice it was the Lamb that opened the seals.
    It was the LAMB that opened the “book of redemption” explained in the thunders”. We have the privilege of knowing them all because we have seen the 7th. Age of deceived people that say one thing and Jesus says another to them. LUKE WARM day. We are in another age of Time into Eternity. THE END.

    1. The 4 Beast power’s are saying come and see. See what Christ has done.
    The Beast powers are all manifestations of the Holy Spirit. Christ was a a.FACE OF MAN, the b. “OX”or “CALF ” the suffering sacrifice -c.The FLYING EAGLE – speaks of Prophets prophesying heavenly things as did Jesus, and last is d. LION which is the King of all beast – Lion of tribe Judah.
    2. The Holy Spirit has all these attributes, Just as 1 Cor. there are 9 spiritual gifts given to the Bride of Christ.
    3. I COR12:4-12 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
    4. So are these 4 Beast there to combat the 4 Beast of Satans bride. Known as the 4 horse riders.

    MATT. 24- speaks of the “4 horse riders” when asked by His disciples about the End time. And Christ is Heb. 13:8 Same Yesterday, today, and forever. God never changes his plan for salvation.
    MATT. 24:4-5 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5. For MANY shall come in my name, saying, I am a Christian; and shall deceive MANY . The White horse rider is a deceiver.

    1st. SEAL OPENED – “WHITE HORSE RIDER”
    REV. 2:6 – But this thou hast, that “THOU HATEST ” the deeds of the “NICOLAITANS“, “religious man” which I also hate. This was the false vine ministries. That brought war to the true Bride. Satan manifested. By ‘face of man’ just as God does the same thing. Satan’s church is the substitute for the real Bride.
    1. Leaving their first love – of God – Turning to Love of Self Rule –
    2. Nico – conquering the laity= Common man – Flesh ruling flesh.
    3. Religious and Civil Government Authority. Growing into Hierarchy
    4. REV. 2:6 – But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.= All systems of man made systems of Men over men. Excluding the 5 FOLD MINISTRY – Which is God Given Gifts to His Bride to profit into the Image of Christ. GIFT’S from Heaven – Eph. 4:8-12 on is the true ministry of Christ. “Face of man”
    5. Many false Jews were in Jesus day – False Christians are the vine of the Tares growing with Wheat. These Nicolaitans are in all the 7 church ages. Manifesting false dogma to the multitudes today. SEAL ONE

    2nd. SEAL OPENED – RED HORSE RIDER
    REV. 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a CROWN of life. These were martyrs just like in Rev. 12 of all 7 age‘s. But Christ gave them a “Ox spirit” to die for His sake.
    1. “Crown of Life” is not the same as the crown of the White horse rider. The white horse rider is the conqueror persecuting the True Vine. He is the one that persecuted the Smyrna church age. Diocletian almost wiped out the church in a 10 year period. This is the Revelation of the Red horse and mankind since the world began with Cain a Marked war being beast like man. That hated God and his People. All the way up to this present day. Christians are persecuted. But it magnifies over time. NOW it is billions and billions of people. Israel was defeated by other nations – and went into captivity. By the Nicolaitan’s. Explained above. Look at the world today – talking about imprisoning Christians and others That will not bow down to the systems of mankind today. We are all in a warfare like it or not.
    2. RED HORSE War, War, And More War – creating Famines. Which is next.
    3. The Red horse is at work in All 7 ages of the church. Cain’s warfare was 7 fold. He was a tare in the O.T. Marked man and Natural brute beast. Loved government as well. He started the first City. Where sin is at its worst state.
    MATT. 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:= making WAR and there shall be FAMINES, and PESTILENCES, and EARTHQUAKES , in divers places. –
    4. Famine goes with Pestilences, Earthquakes and Wars.

    3rd. SEAL OPENED – Black Horse Rider
    REV. 6:5-6 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.
    6. And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
    1. MATT 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be FAMINES , and PESTILENCES , and EARTHQUAKES , in divers places. These 3 along with War always work together and Famine is the 3rd. Step of man kinds 3 steps into Death, Hell, and the Grave. WHY-It cause’s death to mankind that is why.
    2. Rome was starved to death and it took 2 years to do it by barbarians.
    3. That was nothing compared to today with muti million’s and millions dying in hunger and or no water for the last century. NO FOOD KILLS
    4. On the Spiritual side False prophets cannot feed the People what they NEED today. We need a Absolute Message in our day. To combat Satan’s human hence men that are just religious. And He uses man just like God uses man. To fulfill his work of death in humanity and Chruch. As Satan ruled after the Fall. But he has been defeated by the Lamb’s sacrifice.
    5. Once Israel crossed over into Promised land. The MANNA stopped. WHY – Israel crossed an age barrier and needed a NEW MESSAGE to take over the enemies camp. The first 300 years are so they were led by PROPHETS. Then went right back to wanting a KINGSHIP = NICO SYSTEM to rule them. Afte David and Solomon it was over . They went captive into every religious system in the known world at that time. The 4 beast of Daniel. Satan’s Kingdoms. Till the People did not want to go back to Israel. Its in your Bible to read. The multitudes loved Babylon. = Systems of men. Remember the 1st. Generation of Moses loved Egypt and their Idols.

    4th. SEAL OPENED – Pale horse rider – REV. 6:7-8 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.
    8. And I looked, and behold a “pale horse“: and his NAME that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
    0. The Fouth part was the beginning of Death, Hell, and the Grave. Over 2,000 years now the world has escalated into the whole of the earth. As in Jesus day. Was just the start of the whole plan of God. #4 is man’s number. I would say we are not in the fullness of the 4’s. North, East, South, and West not just in East anymore. Hope you see it.
    1. This is the End of Satans rule – the Sword, Hunger and Famine, breeds Death, hell and the grave all meaning the same thing.= DEATH.
    2. You was a walking Grave – you was dead in transgressions, and living in hell = opposite of heavenly places in Christ. Before Jesus Grace found you.
    MATT. 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.

    Hope someone enjoyed this little study. Just the tip of the iceberg.

    Lord Bless us all in our endeavors to “Understand” truth for our day.
    Bro. ty.

  45. Hi Tom, I agree – the seals are a very dramatic warning of God’s fierce judgement / wrath to come upon a disbelieving world.

    David and others, It really all boils down to the depth and breadth of one’s belief in the word of God.

    If one views the Bible as some ancient, foolish or mildly interesting information that has no bearing on the real world in which we live, so be that person’s perspective. I won’t argue the rights or wrongs of various Bible interpretations. God speaks to each one of us according to the receptiveness of our hearts (those who really listen, of course – God loves a good listener!) and reveals his mysteries accordingly. I realized a most pertinent Bible verse succinctly describes where we are in this conversation: Jesus said in John 6:44 – “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day”.

    So, no one can hear God unless God draws him; undoubtedly, this is a mystery wrapped in an enigma for sure – but yet it was ordained by God. So accounts for why some believe the truth, some believe erroneously and some don’t believe at all. That’s just the way it is.

    Anyhow, here are a couple more verses that also speak to the rocking of the earth at the end. If we don’t want to “split hairs”, perhaps the poles may not shift per se, but it is quite clear the earth will go through some type of dramatic, violent upheavals:

    Revelation 6:14 – “And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, see, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, even as a fig tree casts her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. …”

    Isaiah 34:4 – “All the stars in the sky will be dissolved and the heavens rolled up like a scroll; all the starry host will fall like withered leaves from the vine, like shriveled figs from the fig tree”.

    Have a good evening everyone! Mary Anne

    • Mary Anne it was good to read your post. I can go with it. I do believe the Poles will shift back to its original position with is straight up. That would bring us back to before the Flood of Noah. The great shaking is here but it will get all of the earth eventually. The Nations are mad and hate one another and no one trust one another anymore. What else can happed but a new world being made again. Im glad I ready amen.
      God bless you Bro. ty

    • I believe the book of Revelation is the history of the church from the first advent onto the recreation of the earth. The prophecies of the churches, the seals and the trumpets are parallel histories.

      The churches have three applications of interpretation to them. First is the application of the literal churches back in the first century(after all it was a letter to seven literal churches that existed at that time), second it was the history of the church from the first advent to the second and third it is all the characters of all seven churches in the last church.

      Anyone who knows their history knows there was a huge earthquake in Lisbon, Portugal on November 1st 1755 that was felt all over the world, that there was a dark day May 19th 1780 it went dark at 11am and stayed dark all day that when the moon came up that even it was blood red all night, and the stars fell from heaven on November 13 1833.

      Look it up on Google, these strange events were recorded.

      • I did not know that about Portugal. thanks

        • 1755 Lisbon earthquake
          From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

          The 1755 Lisbon earthquake, also known as the Great Lisbon Earthquake, occurred in the Kingdom of Portugal on Saturday, 1 November 1755, the holiday of All Saints’ Day, at around 09:40 local time.[1] In combination with subsequent fires and a tsunami, the earthquake almost totally destroyed Lisbon and adjoining areas. Seismologists today estimate the Lisbon earthquake had a magnitude in the range 8.5–9.0[2][3]) on the moment magnitude scale, with its epicentre in the Atlantic Ocean about 200 km (120 mi) west-southwest of Cape St. Vincent. Estimates place the death toll in Lisbon alone between 10,000 and 100,000 people,[4] making it one of the deadliest earthquakes in history.

          The earthquake accentuated political tensions in the Kingdom of Portugal and profoundly disrupted the country’s colonial ambitions. The event was widely discussed and dwelt upon by European Enlightenment philosophers, and inspired major developments in theodicy and in the philosophy of the sublime. As the first earthquake studied scientifically for its effects over a large area, it led to the birth of modern seismology and earthquake engineering.

          The Azores-Gibraltar Transform Fault, which marks the boundary between the African (Nubian) and the Eurasian continental plates, runs westward from Gibraltar into the Atlantic. It shows a complex and active tectonic behavior, and is responsible for several important earthquakes that hit Lisbon before November 1755: eight in the 14th century, five in the 16th century (including the 1531 earthquake that destroyed 1,500 houses, and the 1597 earthquake when three streets vanished), and three in the 17th century. During the 18th century, earthquakes were reported in 1724 and 1750.

          In 1755, the earthquake struck on the morning of 1 November, the holiday of All Saints’ Day. Contemporary reports state that the earthquake lasted between three and a half and six minutes, causing fissures 5 metres (15 feet) wide to open in the city centre. Survivors rushed to the open space of the docks for safety and watched as the water receded, revealing a sea floor littered with lost cargo and shipwrecks. Approximately 40 minutes after the earthquake, a tsunami engulfed the harbour and downtown area, rushing up the Tagus river,[5] “so fast that several people riding on horseback … were forced to gallop as fast as possible to the upper grounds for fear of being carried away.” It was followed by two more waves. In the areas unaffected by the tsunami[citation needed][clarification needed], fire quickly broke out, and flames raged for five days.

          Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1755_Lisbon_earthquake

        • By the way I am not ruling out a future appilication of these signs. For example by comparision the Boxing Day earthquake and tsunami of 2004 would be a modern day sign.

  46. Hi, agreed – no doubt whatsoever that severe climatic upheavals have happened throughout history at various times and places. Here’s my take:

    God does not want anyone to miss the greatest gift he offers – the gift of eternal salvation – so it makes perfect sense that he has sent dramatic warnings to mankind throughout history to get people’s attention to trust God / Jesus for that salvation. Wickedness, albeit at an all time high right now in our current time, has never taken a holiday (it has just grown in its imaginations) – so, it makes perfect sense that God’s anger, expressed through severe environmental upheavals / destruction- doesn’t take a holiday either…

    Again, the essence of this boils down to faith – whether or not you believe the one & only MAJOR upheaval is coming for that will affect the ENTIRE GLOBE – all corners of it. not just parts of it.

    So, to me, it is clear the book of Revelation was not written with only one or two civilizations, only one or two time periods or only one or two countries in mind – but written for ALL of mankind, everywhere.

    The Bible says that Jesus is coming back to establish New Heavens and New Earth – so do you believe he is coming sporadically, multiple times in multiple places to do this? Did he arrive in Portugal during those events you described?

    The dramatic climatic / cosmic upheavals spoken of in the Bible in Revelation, from my perspective, are directly tied to the state of the world just prior to Jesus’ coming. Granted, there is some necessary history intermingled in with these Revelation scriptures, not to mention being mingled with symbolism as well, but I believe this is all necessary for context to explain the mistakes the world repeatedly has made made (and continues to make) from the foundation of the world to get itself in the bad state as we are in now.

    So, the upheavals to come, while very interesting and very important to discuss, in my humble opinion, are not the main point of Revelation in the final analysis.

    The main point is to warn mankind of the coming of the never-before-seen (key idea being ‘never-before-seen’) display of God’s anger / judgement – pointing to the ultimate, imminent prize – Jesus’ coming.

    As Tom has rightly said, it is all goodness to be searching to discover God’s meaning and ultimate plan for us. So these conversations are a benefit to us!

    Thanks.

  47. After reading these posts – all I can say is Amen. Praise God – David and Mary Anne – and all . Bro. Tom

    PS I have it on record if I can find it that in 352 A.D ? – One of the greatest Volcano’s went off and destroyed affected much of the world. That Volcano was what put the Mayan’s out of business so to say. And everything dried up. And many other pagan dynasties. I will try and find it —

  48. Hey David – you said -By the way I am not ruling out a future appilication of these signs. For example by comparision the Boxing Day earthquake and tsunami of 2004 would be a modern day sign.

    I believe that as you do. Here are some thoughts of mine.

    I believe there were 7 ages of the Church – These were ages and they each ended no doubt with a big bang or war, hunger, famine, earthquakes, volcano’s etc. which would match the 4 horse riders of Rev. 6.

    Because God always gives Grace first — then when its rejected — all that is left is judgment – this is how the ages work in my mind.

    This is why our age is in such un-belief now. America use to be a Christian nation. But now its more pagan . God sent Great, Great men to us from 1906 Pentecost to now. But look at the unbelief that has taken over this nation. Nothing left but judgment. I believe the Lord Comes to his People in a Trumpet sound and a Opening of a Seal, and a Thunder – to each age. We are the last age and no better than the 6 ages that were before us.

    But as in the 1st 4 Seals in Revelations. Many were saved out of each age giving their hearts to Jesus Christ. The others suffered Death, hell, and the grave. Then came another New Age – etc. etc. till the 7th. is over.

    The last 3 Seals are the Spiritual seals of the Saints calling out to God for deliverance – Just as in Cain and Abel. God told ” Cain-the beast “his brothers “blood ” called out — in a voice to God – Yes the Christians see the 6th. Seal of the World and Nature going wild- and we Rest in the 7th. Seal which is CHRIST ALONE. That is where we at if you are a Christian. We have Christ in us the REST —- Just God alone is the 7th. Seal. As in Genesis.

    God made the World and mankind and all things in 6 days – And rested on the 7th. which also means 70th. – 70×7 was allotted for Gods people for reconciliation. Then if they rejected that – nothing but judgment.

    The Blood of the martyrs were crying out to God for redemption and justice etc. I have told many people when it comes to Book of Revelation – Just read the subject matter of each symbol that is taught us by Jesus.

    1st. 3 chapters – The church that Christ was in the middle of.
    2nd. Then the church in last age had the door closed on Jesus. The ages were over.
    3. Then John is “Caught up” That is the Bride to the throne of David. The Lion in our age. That was not a rapture as half the church believes it was.
    It was God coming down with a Message to the last day Bride of Christ. All things fulfilled , all the mysteries fulfilled in the 7 seals . etc etc.

    Usely God comes with Light , and in the clouds of his witness that have gone on. Not natural clouds. But the heavenly clouds. The Seal you was living in was Death, Hell and the Grave. Jesus Christ the Lamb open up your graveyard and gave you Redemption from the 2nd. death and set you free. All that were His came to HIM and he never lost one. Redeem meaning you was sold out to the pawn shop by Adam – yet the 2nd. Adam God in a flesh Body became our Kinsmen redeemer. God’s Grace open up you sealed heart that was living for Satan and Sealed you with His Salvation. Praise God I believe it with all my heart.

    But I gotta go for now. Lord Bless – ty

    • The seals of Revelation 6 is the military history of the church beginning in the first century with the pure church that Christ himself set up. It is pure hence the white horse. The second seal is the period of persecution and bloodshed of Christians hence the red horse killed by the Roman Empire for their faith. The third seal is when the church started to compromise their faith to try to convert pagans to Christianity. This is the time period when Constantine became a Christian and made it a state religion. Black can be a symbol for mourning and loss, at funerals people generally wear black. The fourth seal comes as a result of the compromises of the previous seal. The result was the Roman Catholic Church or the Papacy that ruled during the dark ages. At least hundreds of millions of Christians died during this time for the crime of following the Bible not the Pope. The fifth seal is a question asked by those who were killed for their faith during the dark ages. The answer is sleep a while longer until another group like you is killed. The sixth seal begins with an earthquake, then a dark day, a blood red moon and the stars falling from heaven, and then the day of the lord(and as I already said these signs have already happened).

      Chapter 6 ends with a question “Who is able to stand?” and the answer is given in chapter 7, the 144,000.

      The seventh seal is half an hour silence in heaven. Now is it silence because everyone there is awestuck or is it because heaven is empty?

  49. Yes Dave – Im with you on the Catholic church all the way and that is true.
    That is why the fifth age Sardis means the “Escaped Ones” the Restoration of all things that the dark ages produced had to be “”restored back””.

    JOEL 1:4- That which the palmerworm hath left hath the locust eaten; and that which the locust hath left hath the cankerworm eaten; and that which the cankerworm hath left hath the caterpiller eaten.

    The four stages of the horse riders represent this to the last day churchs of Sardis, REV 3:1 ¶ And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

    After the 4 horse riders rode through the church in the Dark ages. It was a death horse – Hello — Luther’s Message started in that age. God started Restoring all things back to its fullness of times again. The Theme of Luthers Message “Justification by faith” And that broke open the Light coming back to the church. Its not works =catholic church dogma it is Faith that sets us free. After that age came the

    Next REV. 3:7 ¶ And to the angel of the church in “”Philadelphia” church age write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the KEY of DAVID , he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
    Philadelphia means brotherly Love age – Praise God – John Wesley was the main figure of that day preaching saving thousands, upon thousands every where he went. He lived on his horse and used wagons and then the great enlightment was taking off then. The theme of that age was “Justification” after the Fire of Luthers age went out, then God started another revival and there had to be Justification getting cleaned up. Luthers aga started living immoral because of false doctines still being taught. And the also denominated so God had to go on with his restoration of Sanctification. After a certain time period which I have in my files were over then God had to restore back the gifts of the church to become like the Original Acts. of the Apostles.

    Then in 1906 came great revival of Pentecost in America – speaking in tongues, healings, wonders, The man’s name was Bro. Parham a black brother. The fire department came to his church 3 times cause people called them and said that church was literally on fire. But when they got their it was not burnt up.
    That was the restoring of the Spirit like on Pentecost. Jesus name Baptism came back in View and People got re-baptized in “Jesus Name” the only Christian baptism there is. It was a magnificent age for about 40 years and then they started splitting up into different denominations.

    Then came the Laodicean age and it brought us Prophets. God will do nothing unless he speaks to a prophet first. Amos 3:8.
    Laodicea means = Peoples rights, Justice for the People. Tell me is that is not what we have been seeing for the last 50 years.
    But God sent us a Prophet named William Branham – Had a very peculiar birth and God talked to him starting at 2 or 3 years of age. Scaring him bad.
    He became the spokeman for the Full Gospel Businessmen that I used to read all the time in the seventies when I first become a Christian.

    Now what was left to restore – it was the Latter Rain = the Teaching rain Praise God
    Jesus Christ was in this man like he was with Moses, and Elijah. And remember that Elijah was to come before the Great burning Mal. 4.
    God used that man to open the Seals, in 1963 -1965 the last years of his life and then took him. But His message got me out of my traditions and into the Light of the World. He was the 7th. Age messenger sent to us.

    Gotta go for now – And and one thing I forgot. the White horse is in Rev. 6 is not Christ it is anti-Christ . The Roman slogan was to “divide and conquer” I leaned that in school. That is what the anti-Christ did and in 325 AD The joined up with Constantine like you said. And became a great big huge Nicolatian system of men over men. They changed the Baptism in Jesus name to 3 persons then as well. Cause the went with a pagan godhead of 3 persons in one. That is a lie as well. It has so much influence even today cause most believe those doctrines still in 2013. I could go on and on and on. But I gotta go. Its good talking to you. Christ is riding in Rev. 19 on a white horse and we are riding right behind him right now. Im in the army in the Lord camp. The white horse with blood on his vesture. Look it up and see what you come up with ok. bro. ty

    Wrote this real fast – sorry for imperfections that may be

  50. Hello David – 1st. horse rider in Rev. 6 – Deceiving power
    Jesus first remark on the end of the world – His world and Ours Now.
    MATT 24:4 ¶ And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that “”no man deceive you“”. “White horse”
    24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. ““White horse””
    24:6 And ye shall hear “”of wars”” and rumours “”of wars“”: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. = “”Red horse””
    24:7 For ““nation shall rise against nation“”, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be “”famines“”, and “pestilences“, and “”earthquakes, in divers places“”. “”Black horse”

    The 3 above are the powers “”of man without God”” he is hopelessly lost –

    The 4th power is the Pale horse Rider of “”Death “” Hell and the Grave –Mankind’s final hour

    This runs true all through the Bible starting with Cain to the annihilation in Book of Revelations of the dragon which means snake. Rev. 12

    1. When we have a mixture of – religion replace true Christianity – Natural – Spiritual — White horse
    2. We have natural wars brought on by Man’s warlike nature of the beast to rule others— Red horse
    3. The world is always starving and in famines in one place or another – Natural – Spiritual — Black horse
    4. Every second of everyday 2 people die in this world – stop and think about it. Death — Natural – Spiritual

    These are Satan’s 3 step program to kill, steal, and destroy Gods people and humanity. It all ends in Death.
    Satan actually raptures his people = gathering them in his dimensions of the Bottomless pit.

    JOHN 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
    11. I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
    12. But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the WOLF COMING , and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the WOLF CATCHETH THEN, = RAPTURE them to his dimensions and conditions while living on earth. and scattereth the sheep.

    You have only ONE horse rider , which is humanity the dragon or serpent = same- changing horses till they reach “Death, Hell, and the Grave. That is satans plan. To steal, kill, and destroy.

    Now when one Reads Rev. 4 and 5 This is why the church is sooooo overwhelmed when they see God the Lamb become or Savior and our Kinsmen redeemer came to destroy the horses of death and put us on a white horse of Victory shown in Rev. 19. Please look into the diadems on each horse white horse. Also Rev. 19 there is Blood on Jesus – He defeated that fake, god and all his schemes. Once and for all.

    There are 7 overcoming powers in the Church ages to kill the enemy dead. We must learn how to use our weapons of warfare in the Spiritual realm. Satan does not have the Power of our God. Satan is defeated and ends up in the bottomless pit. Which has been here since Cains generations. The Bottomless pit is the hopelessness of humanity. Its never ending torment for all who do not know Jesus NOW in this life.

    Bro. tom – Lord bless

    • Rev 6:1 ¶ And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.

      Rev 6:2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

      What does white represent in Bible prophecy?

      Isa 1:18 ¶ Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

      Dan 7:9 ¶ I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment [was] white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne [was like] the fiery flame, [and] his wheels [as] burning fire.

      Dan 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

      Mar 9:3 And his raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them.

      What is a horse in Bible prophecy?

      Exd 15:19 For the horse of Pharaoh went in with his chariots and with his horsemen into the sea, and the LORD brought again the waters of the sea upon them; but the children of Israel went on dry [land] in the midst of the sea.

      1Ki 20:25 And number thee an army, like the army that thou hast lost, horse for horse, and chariot for chariot: and we will fight against them in the plain, [and] surely we shall be stronger than they. And he hearkened unto their voice, and did so.

      Where else do we find a white horse?

      Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

      The rider had a bow, what is the bow?

      Gen 9:12 And God said, This [is] the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that [is] with you, for perpetual generations:

      Gen 9:13 I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.

      Gen 9:14 And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:

      Gen 9:15 And I will remember my covenant, which [is] between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.

      Gen 9:16 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that [is] upon the earth.

      This rider has a crown given to him. As far as I know only Jesus was given a crown not Satan. He goes out to conquer and to conquer with the Gospel reaching souls using the sword of God.

  51. on post above I want to correct a mistake – I said below

    Satan is defeated and ends up in the bottomless pit –

    That’s a error on my part – Satan is the bottomless pit of no hope – He has always been the bottomless pit. Starting with the Tree of Carnal Knowledge.

    Sorry – ty

  52. Hello David – The 4 horse riders – the answer is within these scriptures
    Yes Satan has a Covenant with his people as well. = Death, Hell, Grave

    ZECH.1:8 I saw by night, and behold A MAN riding upon a red horse, and he stood among the MYRTLE TREES =Israel – that were in the bottom; and behind him were there RED horses, SPECKLED , and WHITE .
    MYRTLE tree – speaks of restoration, Feast of tabernacles, and blessing
    MAN = Man – 122 ‘adom from 121 means Adam -mankind -human being – mortal man etc. The Myrtle Trees are Israel –

    1:9 Then said I, O my lord, what are these? And the angel that talked with me said unto me, I will shew thee what these be.
    1:10 And the man=angel of the lord — that stood among the myrtle trees answered and said, These are they whom the LORD hath sent to walk to and fro through the earth.=mankind
    1:11 And they answered the angel of the LORD that stood among the myrtle trees, and said, We have walked to and fro through the earth, and, behold, all the EARTH SITTETH STILL , and is at rest.= Gentile nations –
    1:12 Then the angel of the LORD answered and said, O LORD of hosts, how long wilt thou NOT have mercy on Jerusalem and on the cities of Judah, against which thou hast had indignation these threescore and ten years?
    1:13- And the LORD answered the angel that talked with me with good words and comfortable words.
    1:14- So the angel that communed with me said unto me, Cry thou, saying,
    Thus saith the LORD of hosts; I am jealous for Jerusalem and for Zion with a great jealousy.
    1:15- And I am very sore displeased with the HEATHEN=horses– that are at ease: for I was but a little displeased, and they helped forward the affliction.

    1:16- Therefore thus saith the LORD; I am returned to Jerusalem with mercies: my house shall be built in it, saith the LORD of hosts, and a line shall be stretched forth upon Jerusalem. = Rev. 11- same for our day
    1:17 Cry yet, saying, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; My cities through prosperity shall yet be spread abroad; and the LORD shall yet comfort Zion, and shall yet choose Jerusalem.

    1:18 ¶ Then lifted I up mine eyes, and saw, and behold FOUR HORNS.
    1:19 And I said unto the angel that talked with me, What be these? And he answered me, These are the HORNS which have SCATTERED JUDAH, ISRAEL and JERUSALEM – Horns are powers of men – like horses – fearless and powerful men of war.

    1:20- And the LORD shewed me four carpenters. = 2796 from 2790;
    1. craftsman, artisan, engraver, graver, artificer – to cut in, engrave – notice the Mark of Beast 2. skilful to destroy (warriors) (figurative)

    1:21- Then said I, What come these to do? And he spake, saying, These are the HORNS which have SCATTERED JUDAH , so that no man did lift up his head: but these are come to fray them, to cast out the HORNS of the GENTILES , which lifted up their horn over the land of Judah to scatter it.

    We should all know that “4” is the Universal Number of man – 4 winds. The winds represent North, East, South, and West. = Babylon in this setting

    ZECH 6:1- And I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came four chariots out from between two mountains; and the mountains were mountains of brass. Gods mountain and Man mountians
    6:2- In the first chariot were red horses; and in the second chariot black horses;
    6:3 And in the third chariot white horses; and in the fourth chariot grisled and bay horses. The grisled is a mixture of all – Same in Rev. 6
    6:4. Then I answered and said unto the angel that talked with me, What are these, my lord?
    6:5 And the angel answered and said unto me, These are the four spirits of the heavens, which go forth from standing before the Lord of all the earth.
    6:6 The black horses which are therein go forth into the north country; and the white go forth after them; and the grisled go forth toward the south country.
    6:7 And the bay went forth, and sought to go that they might walk to and fro through the earth: and he said, Get you hence, walk to and fro through the earth. So they walked to and fro through the earth.
    6:8 Then cried he upon me, and spake unto me, saying, Behold, these that go toward the north country have quieted my spirit in the north country.

    1. The 4 Horns are the 4 Kingdoms Daniel was talking about – Babylon, Medes-Persians – Grecian – and Rome –
    2. Israel was captive to all of them. Learning their ways and gods and got educated while there also. With Systems of men ruling men.
    3. Israel went into captivity with these 4 BEAST Nations Alien – beasts- And when Jesus came to Israel – you know the rest of the story amen.
    4. The World is the Christians worst enemy. Its Satan incarnate. That is why it is forbidden to love any of it. Its all pageantry, idol worship of man, unclean, filthy, natural brute beasts is what the Disciples called them. YET RELGIOUS as can be. Wanting to replace Christ – Starting with the 1st. Horse rider looking so much like Christ in Rev. 19. But his end tells the truth on him. Rev. 6 He rides into Death, Hell, and the Grave the bottomless pit.
    5. This is where are nations are today. They have NO answer for their woes. Because God left them to their selves.

    1. Is it not odd that the 1st church age starts with Nicolatian spirit= false teachers. In it and it seems so innocent – So much so that Peter and James got caught up in it and was going to start circumcision again. Paul had the Revelation and Peter and James repented. Or the law would have taken over Israel again. A little error corrupts the whole lump. It looked good even to those to Apostles but the end result would have been death.
    2. Christ in Matt. 24 first thing said – be not Deceived – by the White horse
    3. We have so many false doctrines in our day. But to the People that believe them they are White Horses of Truth. And will die believing it.
    1. Just as the O.T had their 4 horse riders so does the N.T Church ages. it’s the same process
    2. The whole nation of Israel was influenced by Babylon concepts.
    3. Man put himself above god with their kings, organized governments
    4. Israel had produced false prophets of the Baal – kind.
    5. The Gentile nations influenced Israel to the point of no return when John and Jesus manifested in Israel.
    6. They chose Rome’s way instead of Gods way.
    7. They were believers but did not have the Spirit in them.
    8. When the returned exiles returned to Israel – It was a time to completely Restore. But they never did. Till the Kingdom of God came down in the Holy Ghost. And then they rejected that. Ask Stephen in Act 7 or 8.

    REV 19:11 ¶ And I saw heaven opened, and behold a WHITE HORSE; and he that sat upon him was called FAITHFUL AND TRUE , and in RIGHTEOUSNESS = not deceit – he doth judge and make war. ==with the tares who say they are Jew but are liars.
    19:12- His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on HIS HEAD were MANY CROWNS ; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
    9:13- And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood:= The blood of His Bride — and HIS NAME is called “THE WORD OF GOD”.

    1. Results Jesus told us about the 4 horses in Matt. 24- I already posted them
    They line up with Rev. 6 perfectly.
    Now we have Zech. Saying the same thing. The World loves the World and are in a bottomless Pit and will never get out. That is the covenant of the 1st. White horse rider. It ends in Death, Hell, and the Grave.
    2. Paul Said Satan appears as a “Angel of Light” but it is a lie.
    3. The Bow had no arrow to shoot. He is a bluff – But yes he had a covenant of death. And it was the Tree of Death the World eats from every today.
    4. Remember that in Rev. 2:6 – The Nico-laitan was just a little white lie. But it grew, and grew into the Universal church of the Dark ages. Killing millions and changing Christianity to where you could not even see a little light of the Apostolic Truth. Rev. 6 is the Lamb revealing the false messiah.
    Bro. ty

  53. 6 is the number of man. 4 represents world wide.

    The rider on the white horse is Christ. Show me where Satan receives a crown?

    • Read the church age Rev. 2:12-15 If satan has a “seat” in this church age. Then he is over a kingdom of anti-Christ.
      You said it right when you talked about the Pope. He has a Triple Crown. So there is the answer. And Has had it every since Pergamos which means “thoroughly married”. Who to = Satan –
      His title shows who he is – the vicar of Christ – But its really Satan appearing as Christ yet he is a man. Lord bless you David

      Ps. Also look at all the Kings, etc. etc that ruled their kingdoms etc..
      Satan is a spirit only. He uses flesh as does the Lord Jesus.

  54. He goes to conquer. He rides a white horse with a bow, but no arrows. The Anti-Christ will cause all to have his mark, or die. Through peace he will enslave many.

    The King of Tyre has a crown, as do all symbolically who rule over regions, nations, or people. Lucifer is symbolically known as the king of Tyre. Old Knobs man on earth will be given power over the whole earth. So states the Bible.

    Does that help a bit?

    • No, not really. I want a passage that says Satan was given a crown and went forth conquering.

  55. The rider on the white horse is the Antichrist. Old Knob’s man on earth. Like Nimrod. He will conquer using the power of his father the Dragon.

    I don’t know David if you believe Lucifer rules this world system, but the Antichrist will do his bidding being possessed by the Beast. Doing Lucifer’s will to mislead souls away from G-d’s love. G-d the Father allows it, and it is the same thing to order death, as it is to pull the trigger.

    • The churches and seals are parallel histories. The first church and the first seal cover the same history, that of the first century.

    • God is in control. He sets up kings and takes down kings. See Daniel 2:21.

    • God is allowing Satan to set up his new world order. Mankind must be allowed to see what the results of Satan’s rebellion looks like so that sins never raises its ugly head again.

  56. I have never read that David, but you could be correct as far as I know. To me, these last three years across the globe scares me to believe we are in big trouble sooner, rather than later.

    Peace.

    • The Protestant reformers were all Historists. That is how they were all able to point the finger at Rome and say antichrist.

  57. David – good to have someone that I can agree with. — The Reformation was the beginning of the Restoration of all things. That the Dark Ages changed the Word of God and cannot even be recognized as Apostolic. But 90 % of the church at least still cling to the anti-Christ dogma in one way or another. Example – Just baptize in Jesus Name and see if you are in a majority. You will be called all kind of names. I know. That is just a simple little true doctrine I the Apostolic age. Just an example

    Once a man receives the Holy Spirit he has just walked through the door into the Spirit world. Rev. 4 – Then He can start growing and maturing into the Mind of Christ. By being able to understand the Revelation of Jesus Christ and what its all about. Rev. 4 the Bride is Raptured but not taken out of the World – God said “come up thither” and see and understand the whole panoramic view of Jesus Christ and what He has done for you. You enter into a whole new Dimension as Christ reveals Himself to you. And you start seeing the World and Mankind for what it really is.

    Rev. 12 I will repeat – The Great Red Dragon – means ” a fiery red serpent” that is man that has completely turned on God as in Noah’s day.
    This is all of mankind coming to their destiny. One way or another.

    Bro. ty

  58. When the Children of Israel were ready to march there was number of Trumpet calls. They had to get themselves ready to march at the last Trump. Those who were not ready hnad to catch up. So we are called to be READY when Our LORD comes for us. The 7 Trumpets of Revelation are completely different. They are Judgment Trumpet Blasts.

  59. have you sounded the trumpet today sighted the moon yesterday 2nd september 2016

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

 
%d bloggers like this: