Grieve Not the Holy Spirit
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Sins against the Holy Spirit do not seem to get the same treatment, as those against the Father or Son.
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And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption."—Ephesians 4:30
“You stiff-necked people, uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit. As your fathers did, so do you Acts 7:51
Do not quench the Spirit. 1 Thessalonians 5:19
Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven men, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come," Matt 12:32
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Definitions:
Grief –
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grief
Grief is a multifaceted response to loss, particularly to the loss of someone or something to which a bond was formed.
Although conventionally focused on the emotional response to loss, it also has physical, cognitive, behavioral, social, spiritual, and philosophical dimensions. While the terms are often used interchangeably, bereavement refers to the state of loss, and grief is the reaction to loss.
Grief is a natural response to loss. It is the emotional suffering one feels when something or someone the individual loves is taken away.[1] Grief is also a reaction to any loss.
The grief associated with death is familiar to most people, but individuals grieve in connection with a variety of losses throughout their lives, such as unemployment, ill health or the end of a relationship.[2]
Loss can be categorized as either physical or abstract,[3] the physical loss being related to something that the individual can touch or measure, such as losing a spouse through death, while other types of loss are abstract, and relate to aspects of a person’s social interactions.[4]
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Stages in Human Grieving process:
Shock and Denial
Shock is the initial reaction to loss. Shock is the person’s emotional protection from being too suddenly overwhelmed by the loss. The person may not yet be willing or able to believe what their mind knows to be true. This stage normally lasts two or three months.
Intense Concern
Intense concern often manifests by being unable to think of anything else. Even during daily tasks, thoughts of the loss keep coming to mind. Conversations with one at this stage always turn to the loss as well. This period may last from six months to a year.
Despair and Depression
Despair and depression is a long period of grief, the most painful and protracted stage for the griever (during which the person gradually comes to terms with the reality of the loss). The process typically involves a wide range of feelings, thoughts, and behaviors. Many behaviors may be irrational. Depression can include feelings of anger, guilt, sadness and anxiety.
Recovery
The goal of grieving is not the elimination of all the pain or the memories of the loss. In this stage, one shows a new interest in daily activities and begins to function normally day to day. The goal is to reorganize one’s life, so the loss is an important part of life rather than its center.[6][7]
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Resist – withstand or oppose the action or effect of.
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Quench- extinguish
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Sensitivity of the Holy Spirit
From what is described, the Holy Spirit is imagined, or seen as, the more sensitive, fragile, feminine side of the God head.
He is nurturing, witnesses Jesus to us, woos us to Christ, bonds to us at salvation, and then fills us when we receive Him completely.
When we sin against Him, he feels shock, grief, concern, despair and depression.
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How he can be both all powerful and so fragile, as to grieve and suffer, is hard for a human to imagine.
But we can relate to the human emotions associated with rejection, harm, loss, depression, and shock.
The Holy Spirit is endless love, and to resist Him is to resist all he offers us from God, and to quench him is akin to destroying Him, because quench means extinguish.
How can a fire exist if the flame is put out?
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The Lord is our Rock and High Tower, a present help in time of trouble, our Deliverer and King.
The Holy Spirit is our delicate flower, who brings the love of God to us.
He nurtures us and becomes one with us, to teach us about the Lord.
To reject Him is to rip his “soul” away from our soul.
It wounds Him.
I can almost see him weeping over us.
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Spend time with the Holy Spirit.
He is our gift from us from the Father and Son, and we should cherish His company and devotion to us.
Fellowship with Him.
Share your life with Him.
He is there to listen and counsel you.
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Other reading
http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0278.htm
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Heaven Awaits 
[…] here for […]
Grieve Not the Holy Spirit | Heaven Awaits said this on December 15, 2013 at 1:03 pm |
Another good subject M. This may be off the topic but relates to the Holy Spirit. Many believers say God does not talk to them. I say He does, it is just we are not attuned or want of listening to Him. For starters, we are not the initiators of idea(s). So, when you ask the Lord for help and the solution comes into your head, that came from the Holy Spirit, so thank the Lord, be grateful. Or you maybe walking along and some idea springs into your mind telling you to change course or stop, that is the Holy Spirit. How do you pray? through the Holy Spirit who leads you, so, always give thanks and also, greet Him in the morning, He is there with the believers.
God bless the believers.
amen to that
Hi Allan,
This is so true. God is speaking to people all the time in various ways, just as He has always done since the beginning. God is relational by nature- 3 Persons in unity, Father Son & Spirit. It’s the family of God really. They enjoy communicating with each other, and they want us to communicate with them too.
Of course we need to use discernment, and not contradict God’s commandments and the testimony of Jesus, written in our Bible mostly by the Gospel writers, the Law of Moses, and the Prophets.
Thursday December 12 2013, I had a brief glimpse of the Holy Trinity for the first time. In my 20+ years of following Jesus, I have had numerous experiences of dimly, vaguely, usually briefly, being able to “see” with the eyes of my heart things in the spirit world, such as God the Father on the Throne, Jesus, and angels.
On Thursday I saw God the Father on the Throne, with Jesus the Son standing next to him, in the place over our living room where I have seen them before on a number of occasions. I’m not being irreverent or disrespectful in any way, or taking it lightly or flippantly.
The Father got up briefly from the Throne and did a few dance steps, then sat down again- moving sort of like a man in his 50’s, not an “old” man, but older.
Jesus did some more vigorous dance steps- moving sort of like a man in his early 30’s, a mature young man, not a youth, but not middle aged either.
And then…
another spirit showed up like a flash, that I didn’t recognize at first. I’m not being irreverent, and I hope I don’t regret making this comparison, but it’s the best one I can think of. It was like “Tinkerbelle.” Small, zipped in flying unexpectedly with a smile, made a splash and then vanished. As a child I used to watch “The Wonderful World of Disney” on Sunday nights, and I vaguely remember Tinkerbelle would always do something like that, I think to close the credits of the program. That is what the movements of this spirit being were like.
At Dallas Seminary they taught us that the Holy Spirit was male, with some feminine attributes. That is how I would describe him – as awkward and uncomfortable as it is, especially today, and no I’m NOT saying that the Holy Spirit is a “she” or that men should be effeminate or that God didn’t create us male and female. The Holy Spirit is a “he”, God created us male and female, God created marriage to be between one man and one woman, and sexual activity outside of marriage is wrong according to God. But I think anyone who really knows Jesus also knows that the Holy Spirit is mysterious.
The Holy Spirit was sort of like an older child gymnast acrobat, maybe 10 or 11 years old – not a baby or a toddler, but not really a “youth” either. Lots of energy, excitement, surprise, range of movement, and flexibility.
Do I have Scriptural backup for this “wacky” vision?
Yes.
1 John 2:12-14
I have never seen Jesus in a vision or otherwise…But the day I received holy ghost I knew an invisible presence was following me and to be honest I did not know if the presence was god or Satan…But when he breathed on me I was filled with divine peace and love and received revelation of scripture…These revelations never stopped…Though I am older and slower and of course slow memory..They sometimes take a while to understand…The fact I did not know if the presence was God or Satan made me understand how very uninformed we all are in knowing good from evil….
I also had a vision in 1980…we drove past a religious building and I saw Satan inside..He was in the form of a man but composed of black air…His thoughts were, he was watching, waiting and preparing… I had no idea what kind of church it was…My husband told me it was a mosque…I knew absolutely nothing about Islam until after 9-11…
After 9-11 It was a short walk to understand that Islam was of Satan and that synagogue of Satan that tempts the entire world of Rev .3-9, 10 is Islam..Dubbed.Synagogue of Satan means Satan is claiming he is the god worshipped in synagogue, , the God of Abraham..aka Allah ..
These say they are Jews meaning chosen…It means they claim ishmael is the chosen blood line of Abraham…
Rev 3-9, 10..Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
We are in the hour of temptation now..
There is more to this vision .
Ruth,
God created you and he loves you.
I don’t know everything, but that I do know.
As I was reading your post here, and considering your other posts I’ve seen on this blog for the last few months, the word “banshee” came to mind. I don’t know why. I had to look it up in the dictionary. I wasn’t completely sure what it meant or how to spell it. I have not used or even heard that word anywhere for decades.
I am not your judge. God is the Judge, and Jesus has been given all authority, not the Holy Spirit. Although I am not to judge you or condemn you, I am supposed to evaluate your doctrine if you are writing it, and also look for the “Fruit of the Spirit” (described by Paul.) Yes, that was good writing- I don’t reject everything Paul wrote.
If you think that
there are no demons active around you,
if you are a “true Christian” then demons can’t affect you, and
if you “prayed the Sinners Prayer” that proves you are a “true Christian,”
you are deceived- along with many others here in America.
None of these things are true.
Ruth, in the content and manner of your postings, I don’t see Fruit of the Spirit. I’m not condemning you, and you have a long life outside of this blog obviously. I’m just telling you what I see – or don’t see – in this one limited area that I am personally familiar with.
I also see that you quote the Bible a lot, often out of context, without really thinking, understanding, or listening to other people, and without any sense of priority between different parts of the Bible – just like most Evangelical Christians. I was trained that way too, so I understand. But no, Paul’s words are NOT equal to the words of Jesus, and certainly not above them.
Based on what you wrote above (and elsewhere) I sense you have a great interest in spiritual things and religious writings, and a connection to a spirit.
But I don’t personally see in your writing the kind of close intimate personal connection to our Father in Heaven through Jesus and the Holy Spirit of Jesus that others and I experience. Perhaps you yourself are wondering about which spirit you received. Jesus calls us to follow HIM. Not follow Paul, the Holy Spirit, The Bible, the Koran, or anything or anyone else.
My best suggestion to you is to spend time in the RED LETTERS, listening to the words of Jesus, and getting to know Jesus better, reading the Gospels.
ban·shee/ˈbænʃi, bænˈʃi/ Show Spelled [ban-shee, ban-shee] Show IPA
noun
(in Irish folklore) a spirit in the form of a wailing woman who appears to or is heard by members of a family as a sign that one of them is about to die.
GOOD THING I AM NOT IRISH…or you might think I was sent to warn of impending disaster….Which we are already neck deep in it..via lies and decepions that abound…
Ruth,
It is time to identify and remove the “Banshee” spirit.
“Salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshippers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”
The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.”
Then Jesus declared, “I who speak to you am he.”
[John 4:22-26]
http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art55127.asp
http://socyberty.com/paranormal/nine-types-of-female-ghosts-who-are-like-white-lady/
Mar 3-22.-30….says “He has Beelzebub”…These men were saying the holy ghost is Beelzebub….That is the unforgivable sin and I am sure it is regard to Mohammed claiming he was the holy ghost comforter..Koran 61-6… . That is same as saying Satan is the holy ghost…..Mark 3-22 also says these will be in danger of eternal damnation…
Islam is the eternal damnation….Islam is gathering the unbelievers for their journey to hell….
Jesus shows us the resurrection of damnation….
John 5-29..And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
The resurrection of life is Christ within you, the hope of glory..The resurrection of damnation is believing a lie that damns them…That lie is that Allah is god, that the Koran is a holy book and that Mohammed was a prophet…That lie is Islam….Pretty sure we are being gathered into the Gospel of life or the gospel of damnation I.e. Koran..
I hope the muslims wake up and discover there is a real difference between muhammed and the holy spirit.
I too hope muslims wake up..Some are but some are killing Christians in over 140 countries….The world is in serious trouble and sound asleep..
Marianne,
Here is
Strange Fire: Panel Q & A Discussion 10/17/2013
with John MacArthur and others.
Although I am not a “cessationist” (despite my education at Dallas Theological Seminary) and I disagree with these speakers on a number of points, I also appreciate some of their insights.
They are calling attention to some clear abuses and dangers in “Charismatic” churches that really do need to be addressed and discussed.
I just hope these speakers would also be willing to face some of their own errors (such as Paul worship, insisting that Paul is an Apostle simply because he said so…) in a open discussion.
I agree that there are many charismatic abuses….which is awful, and must disgrace the holy spirit , in stead of honoring him. I have a few pages on this site about it.
we must make an effort to discern the true spirit of god from the counterfeit, so that the holy spirit can still minister to us.
to ignore him would grieve him.
Charismatic Theology,
New Apostolic Reformation Theology (NAR)
Dispensationalism, and
Reformed Theology
all have one thing in common. Systematically, they choose to listen to Paul, follow Paul, and imitate Paul first, putting Paul before Jesus.
They call it “Jesus Culture” but really it’s “Paul Culture.” Paul the self-appointed, self-proclaimed Apostle to the Gentiles, who can never be examined or questioned simply because “Paul said so.”
All these theological systems systematically accept Paul’s definitions for words and ideas standing alone, with no other witnesses.
Practically speaking, the words and actions of Paul replace the words and actions of Jesus. For example, The Gospel, Salvation, Justification by Faith, the most important commandment, Apostle, Jesus fulfilling the Law not abolishing it, God created us male and female, etc.
I heard that John MacArthur wrote books called The Gospel according to Jesus or according to the Apostles.
I would like to have dialogue with people, preferably here in the Los Angeles California area, who have enough courage to open up their Bibles and discuss “What is an Apostle” according to Jesus and the ORIGINAL APOSTLES. (not according to Paul.)
Greetings Matthew,
Here is the definition of Apostolos/Apostle
Definition: a messenger, envoy, delegate, one commissioned by another to represent him in some way, especially a man sent out by Jesus Christ Himself to preach the Gospel; an apostle.
According to the definition above and the Scriptures themselves, God the Father and Jesus Christ are the Ones who sent these apostles. The entire new testament was written by God through the apostles and is indeed Scripture, including all that Paul wrote. Consequently, whoever rejects them, or us for that matter, rejects the One who sent them.
“All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.”
Peter recognized Paul’s writings as wisdom from God and as Scripture:
“Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.”
Paul was appointed as an apostle by the Lord Jesus while he was on his way to Damascus and Ananias is a witness of this, for Jesus told him in a vision (Acts. 9:10-19) to go to the house of Judas on Straight Street to lay his hands on Saul/Paul so that he would receive his sight. Consequently, according to the Scripture above, anyone who distorts Paul’s writing or any of the other Scriptures, they do so to their own destruction and that because they are the words of God, not Paul’s or any of the other apostles. The writings of the apostles, which make up the new Testament, are here because God wanted them here and that because it is His word. We of course should not worship the apostles, but we should acknowledge that they are God-sent and that all that they wrote should be considered as Scripture from God. After all, these are the men whose names are going to be written on the twelve foundations of the New Jerusalem (Rev.21:14).
Regarding Paul’s authenticity as being an apostle, you don’t start off persecuting the church, who are being imprisoned and killed, and then change sides putting yourself on the receiving end of that persecution and the threat of death unless there was some true intervention, one that Paul could not deny. For he was proud of his position being a Hebrew of Hebrews, from the tribe of Benjamin, a Pharisee of Pharisee’s and regarding the Law of Moses, flawless! Yet, he considered all of the above as loss and as garbage that he might gain Christ.
Now regarding blasphemy against the Holy Spirit (Continued).
Matthew and all,
Regarding blasphemy against the Holy Spirit:
There have been many, regarding this Scripture and throughout time I’m sure, that have been concerned about committing blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. To understand what this sin is, we have to look at the entire context and the reason as to what prompted Jesus to make this statement, which is as follows:
“But some of them said, “By Beelzebul, the prince of demons, he is driving out demons.”
To this Jesus replied:
““How can Satan drive out Satan? If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand. And if Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot stand; his end has come. In fact, no one can enter a strong man’s house without first tying him up. Then he can plunder the strong man’s house. Truly I tell you, people can be forgiven all their sins and every slander they utter, but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; they are guilty of an eternal sin.”
Jesus was driving out demons by the power of the Holy Spirit and the religious leaders denied God’s power and said that it was by Beelzebub that he was driving them out and by doing so, they would be referring to the Holy Spirit as evil, ergo, committing blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, the unforgiveable sin. Consequently, one would have to commit the same sin as these religious leaders in order to commit that sin. In other words, it is not some arbitrary sin that we can casually commit without knowing it. We would in fact have to be making the same claim that those religious leaders did in order to commit it and a true believer would surely not make that claim.
Test
Dear dmcal52.
The question I raised is:
““What is an Apostle’ according to Jesus and the ORIGINAL APOSTLES” ?
Not according to a dictionary, a commentary, or according to Paul. I understand your line of thinking – I was trained that way too. But with all due respect, you are “begging the question” and assuming the definition of “apostle” based on human tradition, (which ultimately came from Paul’s personal letters standing alone.)
Your definition did not come from the words and actions of Jesus and the ORIGINAL APOSTLES in the text of our New Testament. Those are my source texts, above Paul’s letters. They knew what an “Apostle” was better than Paul did.
So before we can have meaningful dialogue, we must first agree on the definition of the word “Apostle”, and I am listening to the voices and actions of Jesus and the Original Apostles for that, in the text of our New Testament. Not to your human traditions.
If you want to start discussing what the Original Apostles and other Gospel writers recorded, (before you start quoting Paul) I would love to dialogue with you.
No Peter never recognized Paul as an “apostle”. And no one except Paul, buried in the middle of one personal letter, ever said “All Scripture is God-breathed.” You don’t agree? Then please show the world were. (Peter wrote about “Prophecy” of Scripture, not “all Scripture.”)
Neither Jesus nor anyone else in the pages of the Bible ever said that all Scripture was equally authoritative or equally important or on the same level.
I understand you thinking, I was educated that way. It’s based on the Paulist tradition handed down from the Second Century heretic Marcion, through Constantine, and Martin Luther, placing Paul and his writings above Jesus. But now, it is time to listen to the voice of Jesus!
Matthew,
You said:
“Not according to a dictionary, a commentary, or according to Paul. I understand your line of thinking – I was trained that way too.”
Rebut:
I was never trained by anyone, period! Everything that I have learned comes from my own studies and not by any other man or movement. This gives me the benefit of not being swayed by the teachings of men. Also, your argument regarding the meaning of the word “Apostle” is meaningless, as the definition of the word is sufficient for this description. The fact remains that Jesus intercepted Paul on the road to Damascus and appointed him as an apostle to the Gentiles. Where Paul was previously persecuting the church, after his encounter with the Lord, he then believed and was appointed as an apostle (regardless of your interpretation) and he accomplished God’s purpose according to what he was called to do and that is to preach the gospel.
If you are one of those who is against Paul as being one who was a true apostle, sent by God the Father and the Lord Jesus, then you are rejecting God who sent him, period! The reason that we have all of the Paul’s letters is because they are what God wanted to be written as part of the Holy Scriptures. Therefore, anyone who rejects Paul’s letters as Scripture, or any of the apostles writings for that matter, are like those Peter referred to as ignorant and unstable people who distort the word of God, like they do to the rest of the Scriptures. We do not worship Paul or any of the other apostles, but respect them as those whom God sent, recognizing all that they wrote as God-Breathed and therefore, Scripture.
This book that we have called the bible, was written by men who wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit, Paul included. If Paul’s letters were not Scripture, God would not have allowed them to be apart of his word, which we now have. Paul never placed his writings above Jesus, but everything he did and said was according to God’s will. If you discredit Paul as one who was sent, then you would have to discredit Luke, for he wrote the acts of the apostles, including all of Paul’s and his companions efforts to further the gospel. You would also have to discredit Peter, James and John and that because they recognized him as an apostle sent by the Lord and gave him the right hand of fellowship. You think that you are in Christ, how is it then that you speak against his apostle and reject his words, which are not his words, but the Lord’s words! And regarding Scripture, yes, it is all God-Breathed:
Galatians 1:11
I wanted you to know, brothers, that the gospel I preached is not something that man made up. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.
2 Peter 1:20-21
Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation.
For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
2 Timothy 3:16-17
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that
the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
I’ve come across your type before regarding Paul’s apostleship and you had better change your tune on this or else if you continue with this thinking, as Peter said, which is also Scripture, you do so to your own destruction. What Paul wrote is God-breathed! You reject his letters and you reject God!
My advice to you is to stop listening to these Paul haters and repent of this, because by rejecting Paul, you are rejecting the words of God the Father and the Lord Jesus who appointed him as a true apostle.
Dear dmcal52,
You are “begging the question”, accepting a modern dictionary definition of “apostle” without question and assuming it to be true- without listening to the voice of JESUS and the ORIGINAL APOSTLES.
You wrote, Quote:
“your argument regarding the meaning of the word “Apostle” is meaningless, as the definition of the word is sufficient for this description.”
A classic example of “begging the question.” I am questioning your definition, and you respond that your definition itself stands alone and can’t be questioned.
Your definition is the tradition of men, not the Words of God. You are quoting a modern book, and ignoring the words and actions of Jesus recorded in the Bible. (and the words and actions of the true Apostles who were qualified, and personally appointed by Jesus.)
I agree with Peters words- he didn’t say “all Scripture.”
2 Peter 1:20-21
no PROPHECY of Scripture came about by the PROPHETS own interpretation.
For PROPHECY never had its origin in the will of man….
I never said I “reject Paul’s letters as Scripture.” But they are under the Gospels, not equal to them or over them. Paul made up the word “apostleship.” No one else in the Bible ever used it.
You need to stop discrediting the true 12 Apostles such as Peter, John, and Matthias. There is no 13th apostle. Paul was a missionary, writer, and teacher, not an apostle.
No one ever said Paul was appointed an apostle except Paul himself- and his testimony about himself is not valid without another witness. Please open your Bible and listen to the voice of Jesus.
Prove Jesus did not choose Paul and/or condemned him….
The Bible speaks of crucifying Jesus afresh….I think those who follow the beliefs of the pharisees who had Jeus killed are attempting to crucify Jesus afresh..
Dear dmcal52 part 2 of the RErebuttal
Please look carefully what you just wrote:
QUOTES:
.1) “Paul never placed his writings above Jesus, but everything he did and said was according to God’s will.”
.2) “how is it then that you speak against his apostle [Paul] and reject his words, which are not his words, but the Lord’s words!”
You believe about Paul “The Apostle” just as Muslims believe about Muhammad “The Prophet.”
Muslims believe everything Muhammad “did and said was according to ‘God’s’ will,” and the words Muhammad wrote, the Koran, are not his words but “God’s” words. Just as Muslims follow Muhammad, you follow Paul, rather than the Lord God Jesus the Jewish Messiah!
You can’t hear the voice of Jesus, because you’ve already decided, “if Paul did something it must be right, and if Paul said or wrote something it must be true.” With no other witness! And if Paul contradicts Jesus or anyone else, then Paul must be right, and everyone else must me wrong! (By the way, Luke wrote Acts, not Paul.)
“Everything he [Paul] did and said was according to God’s will” ????
Really? Everything? Besides Jesus and your hero Paul, could you say this about any other person who ever lived on the face of the earth?
.1) David, a man after God’s own heart and wrote half the Psalms (who committed adultery & murder) ?
.2) Solomon, who wrote many Proverbs and Ecclesiastes (and became an idolater with his 1000 wives and concubines) ?
.3) The disobedient Prophet Jonah, who wrote the book that bears his name?
.4) Peter, the hand-picked leader of the Apostles, who wrote 2 letters?
.5) Other anointed men of God who did not write, like King Saul and Samson?
You are saying that all the written- and spoken – words of Paul are “the Lord’s words!” Really??? Where did Jesus, or anyone else in the pages of the Bible (besides Paul talking about himself) ever say or imply such a thing?
I know that as Evangelicals, we’ve all been brainwashed to believe subconsciously without thinking that “Paul was always right.” But to actually say that out loud? Please – for the love of Jesus. Repent of this idolatry of “Paul worship.”
When I get out of the way, I allow room for the holy spirit.
What I mean by this is that I can be the most intelligent, educated, creative, observant, knowledgeable person, except when I am doing the doing.
When I stop, take a breath, acknowledge and remember the spirit, slow down and listen … many things take care of themselves, ideas come to mind, right in front of me, that solve situations, even those not so in front that may seem out of the box come into view. I would not have been able to see the bounty of resolution had I not allowed room for the holy spirit.
Even in those times where it seems no answer or resolution is forth coming, when it seems God is not listening, let alone answering, are the times I need to make more time, more room, for the holy spirit. It is those times that I am reminded of the poem, Footprints in the Sand, where the writer feels abandoned by God and God reminds him / her that those times where they saw only one set of footprints were the times that God was carrying them.
Thank you for the article, Marianne, and the reminder, that even when we think we have done the listening, stop the doing, and listen some more. 🙂
Denise,
Thanks for this encouragement. We have “Footprints” in the Sand on a small plaque that was given to us years ago. I had put it aside on a bookshelf, but I just took it out again. I can tell that you have a vital relationship with Lord Jesus and his Holy Spirit by the way you talk about him. Prayer indeed should be two-way communication and communion, not just I my me.
nice thoughts 🙂
Jesus said both he and satan sowed seed…Luke 8-11 says the seed is the word of God…In satan’s case it is his versions of the word of God.,..The lies of satan produced the tares in the Christian church….Jesus did not remove these because removing them then would have uprooted the wheat too…..He is removing them today…
very true….let us pray we are worthy to be considered wheat, and not tares.
Ruth,
Jesus is not removing the weeds today! Please read the entire Scripture.
When the servants (angels) said, do you want us to go and pull up the weeds, then the owner of the field said, No! Let them both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will send the harvesters to first collect the weeds. In the parable, the harvesters are the angels and the harvest is the end of the age, that is, when Jesus visually and physically returns to the earth to end the age and set up his millennial kingdom. This is related to the parable of the “One taken” where at the end of the age, the angels come and remove everything out of his kingdom that causes sin and all who do evil. Therefore, since the harvest is not yet here, then the weeds remain till this very day and there is plenty of proof of that, just look around. When Jesus returns, the weeds (One taken) will be gathered by the harvesters (angels) and they will take them to Armageddon, where all of those kings, their generals, their armies have all been gathered together and that double-edged sword will proceed from the Lord’s mouth, which is the word of God and they will all fall dead. Then, those birds that were called by the angel in Rev.19:15, will gorge themselves on their flesh, while their souls will go down into the furnace, that is, Hades. The pulling up of the weeds does not take place until Jesus physically returns to the earth.
dmcal..I think as Jesus said the tares are gathered into bundles… I think these bundles are the cults that have sprung up in Christianity.
Jehovah’s wittnesses, possible mormons, etc…Then in the harvest he sends his angels to seperate them and deliver them to the fire..
Matthew 13-30, 39…..Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn. The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. …
Those that change God’s words like some on this site do and/or believe other Gsopels are in serious trouble and do not know it..
From you text
I can see you are on the right path..
I vowed not to come back on this site…Two many serpents and wolves in here…If they want to spend etrenity in hell so be it..
I am pentecostal…I believe Jesus is Father, Son and Holy Ghost….and the Bible substantiates this…Jesus was the voice of the invisible spirit in Genesis…He became a man…All men that god indwells are Sons of God…He came as Son of God meaning God indwelled him….The hly ghost is that part of God’s spirit that indwells mankind …Jesus breated on the deciples and said “Receive you the holy ghost…Jesus was restoring that spirit that God breathed int Adam…
I also think God knows we are all little babies in understanding so he shows us in a story fashion…He was god, He needed no baptism.His breathe was Holy Ghost. He did not need to receive it at baptism…This was all told in story form to show us how to follow Jesus’s exmple… Likewis with his temptation..God cannot be tempted….The story of his temptation was example for us to follow when we encounter satan’s islam in the last hour of time rev 3-9, 10…
This is not to say all the events in the Bible did not happen…They did …But it was to show us the example we are to follow…John 14-8 through 11..Jesus said Have I been with you such a long time and you do not know me…
“As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. And a voice from heaven said, ‘This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.'”
[Matthew 3:16-17]
You are presenting “Oneness Pentecostal” “Jesus name only” Modalism or Monarchianism. The Bible does NOT substantiate this. The two verses above are clear direct evidence.
Please sit down and read the whole “Upper Room Discourse” for yourself – John chapters 14 through 17, and listen to the voice of Jesus. Don’t rely on “sound bites” of a few verses out of context.
you are UPC….. I used to attend that church…..got baptized there long ago in the 1980s.
Wow Marianne, I should have known….You have a certain air about you…. Wow again.. I have known for a while the Lord sent me to this site…
But I confess I am a not very good pentecostal…They would probably disown me….lol ….My chidren still attend penecostal churches…They are ALL believers, all but the democrate Obama lover…She has almost disowned me…She will turn around!!!!!!!
Ruth,
The Lord our God is One God.
God is made of three distinct, individual persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Though Jesus said that I and the Father are one, yet they are still individual persons. Otherwise, you would have to explain who Jesus was praying to and also how could Jesus literally be sitting at the right hand of the Father? Scriptures states that, the fullness of the deity dwells in Jesus, yet he himself is not the Father, nor is the Father the Son. Scripture shows that though he is one God, yet he is made up of individual persons. Mankind is also made up of three, body, soul and spirit, but ours are contained in one body and cannot operate independently.
The man has become like one of [us] knowing good and evil.
Let [us] go down and confound their languages.
Amen to his, dmcal52
Would asking that a gift be taken away considered grieving Him?
Not that I’m The Authority or an expert, but my best guess would be YES.
Isaiah 43-10…Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Isaiah 43-11..I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
I, EVEN I AM THE LORD..The i is the father and the other I is Jesus…
Acts 1-8…But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
These are the holy ghost witnesses of Isaiah 43-10 and Acts 1-8…
By the way Matthew you have never heard a pentecostal say that Jesus life was example for man to follow, his baptism, his temptation, etc…What do you think Jesus meant when he said FOLLOW ME????
Jesus baptism was example we are to follow to be born of the water AND THE SPIRIT…Jesus was sinless…He knew God was his father at about age !2… He said should I not be about my father’s business…He was born of holy ghost in the natural birth..How say you he must receive the holy ghost…???
That is pretty self righteous to not know that Jesus needed no baptism…
As for his temptation….Satan could never tempt God..And Jesus is God….
He told Thomas when Thomas said “show us the father,”…Have I been with you such a long time and yoiu do not know me…???
John 14-9…Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
Jesus breathed on them and said “Receive you the h0ly ghost…Most people that experience this breathe of God know immediaely that Jesus is God even though they do not understand all the mysteries surrounding this fact..
John 14-16…And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Jesus is this comforter…
John 14-18…I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
The comforter is the holy ghost..
John 14-26..But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
And lastly in this same chapter..Jesus tells us in John 14-30..Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.
This is mohammd who says he is the holy ghost comforter that comes after jesus and even preaches Jesus….Jesus forewarned us mohammed has nothing in Jesus..
Matthew I follow no man’s doctrine..I learned at a very early age if you want the truth, the real truth you get if from Jesus…He alone has the truth..Men have bits and pieces and error not to mention the tares…..
You must keep your mind open at all times not closed and locked because of the lies you accept…
I am not condemning those in error… I understand we al linherited Adams very flawed understanding good and evil..Genesis 3-22 so consequently lies and mistakes abound.. No wonder the Lord says we must live by faith…
When the lord breathed on me and filled me with the holy ghost I did not speak in tongues..
I could not even speak of a week …I knew immediately Jesus was God….I also received revelations of some of the sealed mlyseries in scripture….Like Genesis 1-26….God was not speaking to a trinity…He was making reference to satan…He knew Adam would fall and become like satan. though He had created the Adams in his OWN IMAGE….And that is only the beginning of that great mystery..There is much more t o it..
And you Matthew my dear friend need to throw away the junk you read and believe and get a good KJV and allow the lord to reveal the truth to you…
It sometimes takes time but it is the only way…
Remember THE HOLY GHOST IS THE TEACHER….John 14-26…
Ruth,
I am going to interject myself here and will not respond after. Your comment…”get a good KJV and allow the lord to reveal the truth to you…”. An incredibly ignorant statement. Who do you think the Puritans and Pilgrims were persecuted by and leaving England because of??? Your wonderful King James l, who had the scriptures translated to make the Church of England (thus himself) the final religious authority. You either bowed your knee to the King of England as the final religious authority, or you were persecuted. No home meetings or private services were allowed. All religious rights and authority were given to the King as the head of the Church of England. The King James version solidified this concept. Even though the pilgrims left England because of this, it was one of the versions they brought to the Americas and it is why most people in this country believe the way they do.
Those who want to perpetuate this, give glowing reviews of King James l as a devout man, so I am sure this will fall on deaf ears. Maybe the Puritans and Pilgrims just had it all wrong. And maybe, the pilgrims decided one day to risk their lives to leave on a treacherous journey because they were bored, risking their families and everything they had was just a way to pass the time because their lives were so peaceful and boring. You know, kind of like a Sunday drive after church!
Al, considering that you believe law over faith and are in agreement with the phariseees who had Jesus and most apostles killed and hated and condemned Paul, I do not think you are a very good judge of God’s words..Or of his servants ither..
Incidentally Jesu called he pharisees who believed law over faith children of satan and serpents.. I think that still applies today..
When we do good things, these are the Fruit of the Holy Spirit. We have faith, the Spirit comes, and the fruit results. But sometimes it is not instantaneously that this happens. The Fruit of the Holy Spirit takes time to ripen.
e1313, correct me if I am wrong but you say Mohammed was Satan? then all the other diety leaders of non-Christ believers were Satan also? Like New Age, Hindu, Budda, etc? That is not spiritual or logical. The Bible does say when this coming world leader/antichrist comes and is killed then he arises with the spirit of Satan. You say Jesus was not tempted? You tell Matthew to read the KJV Bible but misquote this Bible yourself, for in Matt 4:2; Mark 1:13 and Luke 4:2 the Word tells us Jesus was tempted by Satan. Either my KJV Bible is wrong, or I am blind or you are misunderstood, the Word says Jesus was tempted! My KJV also tells me that Jesus said He must go before the Comforter (Holy Spirit) could come on His followers which took place on the Day of Pentecost. The Holy Spirit was in the world from the beginning as the Bible attests but the filling of the Holy Spirit and His gifts only took place from the Day of Pentecost. God bless the believers.
Allen, the Bible says anti Christ is a spirit…These that are indwelled by this spirit deny Jesus is Son of God..The Bible also says there were many antichrists among them then…I think some of these many antichrist of John’s day were the pharisees of John 8….Jesus said these men were children of Satan which means Satan indwelled them… These also said Jesus blasphemed because He said he was Son of God….These pharisees had Jesus killed….These pharisees went by the law not by faith….
John also said they(antichrist) were of us but went out from us..I think it applies to Christians who fall away to Islam today too..
Antichrist also comes as a man aka false messiah …His congregation beheads Christians…Ask yourself who has and is beheading Christians for 1400 years…
Now locate beheaded in Scripture…
Rev. 20-4..And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years….This verse shows Christians were beheaded by the beast and his gang….It also is a short walk to understand the Islam is the kingdom of the beast……..Mohammed was the antichrist….he promised to return after 1000 years as does the beast in scripture……That is the antichrist we are/will deal with today…Mohammed said he would be as the sunrise in the west in his return… Remember Obama’s sunrise in the west logo…It is even labeled sunrise in the west..Mohammed also said he would bear his family’s name on his return..The name left his family was Hussein. via his grandsons..
I think the 1000 years of peace is the 1000 years Satan has been locked in the pit and it is now over..Satan has returned as the sunrise(apollyon) in the western world…And hell is breaking loose all over the world today..
Consider rev 13-1,,John stand on the SAND OF HE SEA and sees a beast rise up out of the sea of the descendants of the SAND OF THE SEA SHORE, aka Ishmael’s descendants..aka mohammed
Consider also…rev 20-8..And (Satan) shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. …Is not Obama gathering together the descendants of ishmael aka sand of the sea…aka Arab Spring…Believe me there is much more to prove these things..
God gave Abraham two promises…One was to make his descendant like the stars of heaven…..And the other to make his descendants as the sand of the sea shore…These are two different promises to be used for identification and number purposes…
Genesis 22:17
That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;..
Essentially this verse means Isaac’s seed would be as the stars of heaven and they would possess the gate(Jesus) through which their enemies must enter to find the real God of Abraham…The descendants of Ishmael are and were the enemies of Isaac’s descendants….
God was not confused when he said thy seed meaning Isaac would possess the gate (meaning Jesus the gate to God) of their enemies meaning Ishmael….
Both sand of the sea shore and stars of heaven are used to denote great numbers of descendants but they also mean more than that..
For instance there is a verse that says the Israelites became as the sand of the sea shore… This was when they fell away from God….Probably in the wilderness when they made the golden calf…Their numbers also greatly decreased then also..
Deut 28-62.And ye shall be left few in number, whereas ye were as the stars of heaven for multitude; because thou wouldest not obey the voice of the LORD thy God..
And so the Israelites became small in number, until Jesus began both converting and adopting those into the Abraham-Ishmael family….
Both of these descendants of Abraham play an intense role during end time events..
Consider these similarities..An angel announced to both Mary and Hagar that they would bear a son and said the names of these sons..
In the process of time both Jesus and Mohammed came out of the Abraham line…Both Mohammed and Jesus came as messiahs, brought a covenant gospel and taught the kingdom of God,.. Aka the prophets, heaven, hell, etc….But only one of these men was the Christ…the other was the pseudo Christ, aka the antichrist…These two groups are identified in the book of Revelation by their identities stars of Heaven and sand of the sea shore…
In Revelation 13-1..John stands on the SAND OF THE SEA SHORE and see a beast rise up out of the sea…This sea of humanity from which the beast arises is identified by John’s words .SAND OF THE SEA SHORE… This beast that rises up is the descendant of Ishmael… Aka Mohammed…..
Revelation 12-1 Identifies the Christians, both the Jewish converts and the adopted ones…….The woman of Rev 12 is the Christian church…Her crown of 12 stars are the Christian congregation, both the wheat and the tares..THESE ARE THE STARS OF HEAVEN of Abraham’-Isaac seed…The dragon and his tail is the other wonder in Heaven.. And as stated he is of they are of the descendants of Ishmael
These are in the heavenly realm….Rev 12.
Ephesians 2-6…And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
Isaiah 14-13… Lucifer said…For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:
Allen…Read 2 Corinthians 11- 4,14 and tell me Budistis, Hindues, etc preach another Jesus and another Gospel of the kingdom…Mohammd was the antichrist…He was a counterfeit of Jesus messiah…He counterfeited all of Jesus works, He said He was the Holy Ghost comforter..He also promised to return during judgment.. He also set up a foundation to make null and void Jesus and Christianity…He denied Jesus is Son of God which the very Chruch is built on this rock….He denied original sin which means man needs no salvation…He denied the death and resurrection of Jesus which means man will not be saved…He forced fonversion and killed hos who refused.. Only satan wuld be cunning enought to do ththese things…There is much more to this…..Ask the Lord about it…
Anyone who thinks Jesus needed baptism and or was tempted by satan surely thinkks also that Jesus was a mere man…he wasn’t …He was God in flesh…
The Comforter was not needed until Jesus went away, nt to mention the fact He was the comforer ..plus he was not omnipresent as a man, but he was omnipresent as God…
Ruth,
I found that I said something that wasn’t true. I said I would not respond, but I have no choice. Just for your information, I have been where you are at, so to speak. It is how most of us come into the FAITH. But at some point, if we are honest, we realize that there is more to this. It is not law or faith (grace); that is a Christian or Orthodox Jewish position. You do not have to destroy one to have the other. The Jews were blinded by Yah and the Christians have been blinded by at least 1700 years of pagan Gentile influence over the Hebrew scriptures. Neither position is tenable on it’s own. Do you not think that just maybe, it was the purpose of the Father to allow this, with both groups growing apart, for the purpose of bringing them together at the end? I have the half that you have, and by the mercy of Yah have found and am finding the other half. The problem is you have only half of this and are proud of it, meaning that you are 50% blind, but think you have 20/20 vision. You don’t know or understand what the whole picture looks like.
It is really telling that you didn’t respond to what was written above. It is not theological, but rather historical. You are afraid of it, because of what all of this might mean. That you just might not understand all of this. All you have to do is knock one leg out from under a one legged person and they have nothing left. Needless to say they will protect that leg to the end, otherwise they have NOTHING to stand on! Hopefully you won’t be in that state when Messiah returns.
Al, do you really think I have not read many versions of the Bible????? I have also read that what has been restored of the dead sea scroll verses is closest to the KJV.. In many cases they are identical…
I have also read the book of morons.. opps, I mean mormon, JW’s lies and koran gospel of satan..Face it bud I have learned by intellect, and intitution , and revelation to understand what comes from God and what comes from satan..Sometimes it literrally screams at me that some writings are of satan…And I always wait for verification from the teacher Jesus before accepting or rejecting…I also frequently check the meaning of words and verses with the hebrew translation available in BLB…You see, I want the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth and I am willing to dig for it…Matthew 13-44…Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.
Al,
I really think you are on to something, about God causing temporary blindness for 1700+ years, and bringing Jews and Gentiles together again at the end. Other than Ezekiel 37 about the 2 sticks, I don’t have any particular Scripture backup.
But it seems clear to me that “Paul worship” is a big part of this, with the Gentile church under Marcion, then Constantine, choosing to follow “Paul the Apostle to the Gentiles” rather than Yahshua the Jewish Messiah.
Hey Matthew,
Thought I would send you this on the reconciliation of the House of Israel (aka House of Ephraim aka Christianity) and the House of Judah). I found this the other day and thought it might give some information on what all of this is about.
The Orthodox Jews and Christianity tend to reject this. The Orthodox Jews and Christianity both say this refers only to “ethnic” Israel. The Orthodox Jews don’t want anything to do with Christianity and the Christian Church thinks they have replaced ethnic Israel. Such is the divide. The Messianic Jews and Gentiles (Ephraim-House of Israel) are the only ones that recognize this. If this is in a person, they will not be able to ignore it or reject it! If it is not, it will seem like foolishness.
I found the article informative on a basic level. If you want to go deeper with it search out what the Melo HaGoyim =”The fullness of the Gentiles” means. It is only mentioned twice in scripture. Once in Genesis 48:19 and once in the Renewed Covenant Romans 11:25.
Two articles concerning this:
http://jewsandjoes.com/the-prodigal-son-parable-luke-15-a-prophetic-macro-timeline-of-ephraim-in-last-days.html
http://www.scatteredseedministries.org/Teachings/Who%20Is%20Israel.htm
I would be interested in your thoughts after you have had time to digest this.
Hi Al,
I’ve read both these articles. I have a sense of agreement and peace about these viewpoints, even though I feel like I can’t completely grasp everything. I really can’t think of any specific point to disagree on (although I will not make a blanket statement that I agree 100%).
One point written there which I want to expand on is this,
QUOTE:
“In Israel two or more must bear witness before a matter can be established, confirmed, or believed. Messiah Yeshua and Paul the apostle upheld this principle.”
Yes, Paul “upheld this principle” in theory, for it to apply to everyone else EXCEPT HIM. Paul wrote to the church in Corinth the following:
“This will be my third visit to you. ‘Every matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ I already gave you a warning when I was with you the second time. I now repeat it while absent: On my return I will not spare those who sinned earlier or any of the others…” [2 Corinthians 13:1-2]
Paul had been primarily responsible for starting the church in Corinth, he stayed there for a year and half, then left for no apparent reason. He went travelling around extensively again, mostly on his own, all the way to Jerusalem then wandered back to Ephesus, where he remained for 2 years and 3 months, and where he started his own school and taught full-time.
Now, in Paul’s second letter to the Corinthians, Paul is stating that he personally is “above the Law” of needing the testimony of two or three witnesses. Paul is saying that if HE personally VISITS them two or three times, this constitutes two or three witnesses.
Paul has kept all authority and all the rights and benefits as the one overseer of all aspects of the church in Corinth, without delegating specific authority to anyone locally in Corinth, even though Paul lives hundreds of miles away and visits them only once a year or less.
Paul is the model of an abusive absentee pastor – and the model of many pastors today, unfortunately, rather than Jesus being the model.
Paul mentions TItus and another brother (2 cor 12: 18) that had come before and reported back to him, so that makes 3 witnesses that there were problems in corninth that needed to be corrected.
Marianne,
Of course everyone agrees there were MANY “problems in Corinth that need to be corrected. ” It was an extremely unhealthy church, and it reflects the character of the overseer – PAUL. He abandoned the church after 18 months.
But now years later Paul is still controlling all aspects of the ministry from a distance of hundreds of miles, sending a couple of his young out-of-town helpers in sometimes to do pulpit supply – because they are loyal to him personally, and are just temporary outside workers, so they have no real authority in the church apart from being sent by Paul.
We have been brainwashed by Paul’s writings into giving Paul all the credit, all the authority, all the rights in the church for everything, but none of the blame and none of the responsibility for anything.
The many problems in Corinth needed to be corrected by a local overseer, not by the founding pastor (who moved away years ago but never appointed anyone locally with any specific authority) writing a letter and visiting them once a year. Paul was clinging to power- just as many many founding pastors or other leaders to today, “like Paul.” But not like Jesus.
it sounds like no one was qualified to oversee there
So you agree that Paul WAS overseeing all aspects of the church in Corinth when he wrote his 2 letters to them…
and
Paul wasn’t qualified to oversee in Corinth either, since “an elder must be hospitable” and Paul had been living in Ephesus for years, not Corinth ?
To Matthew,
Romans:
“Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God–”
1 Cor.
“Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God,”
2 Cor.
“Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God,
Galatians:
“Paul, an apostle–sent not from men nor by a man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead–”
Ephesians:
“Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God,”
Phil.
“Paul and Timothy, servants of Christ Jesus, ”
Col.
“Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, ”
1 Tim.
“Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the command of God our Savior and of Christ Jesus our hope,”
2 Tim.
“Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, ”
Titus:
“Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ to further the faith of God’s elect and their knowledge of the truth that leads to godliness–”
Philemon:
“Paul, a prisoner of Christ Jesus,”
From the looks of things, I would have to believe the Scripture’s over you and say that Paul was very qualified and called by God the Father and Jesus Christ who appointed him to be an apostle. Who are you or anyone to critique and slander the Lord’s appointed?
Regarding Paul:
“Whatever anyone else dares to boast about—I am speaking as a fool—I also dare to boast about. Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they Abraham’s descendants? So am I. Are they servants of Christ? (I am out of my mind to talk like this.) I am more. I have worked much harder, been in prison more frequently, been flogged more severely, and been exposed to death again and again. Five times I received from the Jews the forty lashes minus one. Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was pelted with stones, three times I was shipwrecked, I spent a night and a day in the open sea, I have been constantly on the move. I have been in danger from rivers, in danger from bandits, in danger from my fellow Jews, in danger from Gentiles; in danger in the city, in danger in the country, in danger at sea; and in danger from false believers. I have labored and toiled and have often gone without sleep; I have known hunger and thirst and have often gone without food; I have been cold and naked. Besides everything else, I face daily the pressure of my concern for all the churches.
This is the man that you are rejecting and slandering as not being qualified as an apostle? I would pray to God that I could even be worthy to perform even a small fraction of what Paul accomplished and went through for keeping the testimony of Jesus and for the furtherance of the gospel. If you are disagreeing with the introductions of Paul’s claim from the letters above, then you are disagreeing with God the Father and Jesus Christ.
Neither you nor I nor anyone has any place judging Paul’s work in God the Father and Jesus Christ!
For your sake I say, Repent!
dmcal52
You are quoting one witness- Paul – writing about himself many times. But as Jesus reminded us from the Torah, let every matter be established by the testimony of TWO witnesses . Can you provide another witness from Scripture [besides Paul talking about himself] saying that Paul was appointed an apostle?
Matthew said:
“Marianne,
Of course everyone agrees there were MANY “problems in Corinth that need to be corrected. ” It was an extremely unhealthy church, and it reflects the character of the overseer – PAUL. He abandoned the church after 18 months.
But now years later Paul is still controlling all aspects of the ministry from a distance of hundreds of miles, sending a couple of his young out-of-town helpers in sometimes to do pulpit supply – because they are loyal to him personally, and are just temporary outside workers, so they have no real authority in the church apart from being sent by Paul.
We have been brainwashed by Paul’s writings into giving Paul all the credit, all the authority, all the rights in the church for everything, but none of the blame and none of the responsibility for anything.
The many problems in Corinth needed to be corrected by a local overseer, not by the founding pastor (who moved away years ago but never appointed anyone locally with any specific authority) writing a letter and visiting them once a year. Paul was clinging to power- just as many many founding pastors or other leaders to today, “like Paul.” But not like Jesus.”
Rebut:
Again, this is conjecture on your part Matthew and on the part of those who have taught you. There is no proof that Paul abandoned the church in Corinth. He founded many other churches and therefore he would not be able to be present with them all at the same time. He couldn’t just jump in his car and be there whenever he wanted. He had to walk or go by ship. He was following the orders of Christ in all that he did. Is this the kind of information that you are using to rule out Paul. You ignore that Scripture that says Paul was appointed by Jesus, you ignore that he performed miracles that could only be done through the power of God, you ignore Paul’s writings that they are in sink with the rest of Scripture and much more, and for this, you want to rule Paul out as being an apostle and that because of what you wrote above. Just because there is no overseer mentioned for the church in Corinth doesn’t mean there wasn’t one.
For the sake of argument you say Paul abandoned the Corinthian church. Do you read of anywhere else in Scripture where any of the other apostles even formed any churches outside of Israel? Yet, you’re talking against Paul who formed many of the churches and who continued to monitor, exhort and visit them. But because Paul doesn’t meet up to your standards regarding the work the Lord gave him and how he went about doing things, you reject him as an apostle. Careful Paul, you don’t want to offend Matthew.
Please don’t include me in those whom you claim have been brainwashed. We believers acknowledge Paul as appointed by the Lord and the words he wrote as coming from the Lord. Therefore, we are not “brainwashed into giving Paul all the credit,” because we know that it was the Lord who appointed him and therefore, what Paul did and wrote comes from the Lord and the credit is his; even Paul would confess this. It is you who have been brainwashed by this false teaching. I say again, REPENT!
I agree
Hi Matthew,
You said:
“Paul is the model of an abusive absentee pastor – and the model of many pastors today, unfortunately, rather than Jesus being the model”
From how you have described Paul, he would be against Christ, that is, he would be disobedient as an apostle. Do you actually think that if Paul was who you say he is, that Jesus would have continued revealing visions and revelations to him or even using him at all for that matter? There is no way in the world that the Lord would have continued with him. I don’t know where you are drawing your conclusions from regarding Paul, but you are putting yourself in a dangerous position, for you are speaking against a God appointed apostle. I have been studying his word for over 40 years and I have never had the view of Paul that you do. In fact, Paul was the hardest working apostle of all. Everything that he did was in accordance with the will of God. Your derogatory view and teaching of him, according to Scripture, is internal life threatening for you. For this is what Peter had to say about those who distorted Paul and his writings, which were not his words, but what the Lord wanted to convey to all believers.
“Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.”
People back then were doing the same exact thing that you and others are doing today, that is, distorting Paul’s writings and speaking against him, the Lord’s appointed apostle. In the Scripture above, Peter recognizes Paul’s letters as wisdom from God and as Scripture. Therefore, you and others who are distorting those letters and speaking against Paul, are equal with those whom Peter said were ignorant and unstable and that to your own destruction. Since Peter is also an apostle, then what he wrote in the above Scripture would be God-Breathed and therefore true. That is unless you hold the same view of Peter that you do of Paul. If you don’t, then you have to be in agreement with what Peter wrote regarding Paul and his writings.
In your puffed-up spirit, you have spoken against the Lord’s appointed apostle and therefore, the Scripture above is applied to you and others who hold the same view. If these letters of Paul’s were not God-Breathed, then they would be invalid and unusable as Scripture. Nothing he said could be used to teach, train, correct, rebuke or contend for the truth of God’s word. And if that was the case, the Lord would not have allowed Paul’s writings to even be included in his word.
You need to repent of this position, but if you continue with this view you will not like the outcome.
I agree that Paul was hard working, but also see the others are hard working also. Unfortunately, we do not have a written account of their work, like we do for Peter, Paul, John, Luke, Matthew, and Mark .
Dear dmcal52
Why don’t we take one point at a time.
Question: Who was in charge of the church in Corinth when Paul wrote his two letters to them?
I say, clearly, Paul was in charge – of all aspects of the church.
Do you agree, yes or no?
if no, can you please explain why you think that?
Matthew said:
“Question: Who was in charge of the church in Corinth when Paul wrote his two letters to them?”
Rebut:
Your question doesn’t matter and is irrelevant! You are using this information as an excuse to reject Paul as an apostle, but the fact that his words are apart of God’s Scripture overrides anything that you can concoct. What do you think is more plausible:
a. That all of Paul’s writings are in the bible because the Holy Spirit moved him to write just as he moved the other men who wrote Scripture, or …..
b. Paul’s letters are not God ordained and God expects us believers to find this out so that we can alert the rest of the believers in the world in order to reveal this lie so that we can remove all of Paul’s writings from the bible?
Since Jesus personally called Paul to service as an apostle and since Paul’s letters have been apart of the New Testament for nearly 2000 years and agree with the rest of Scripture, I’m gonna go with (a).
I agree.
to dmcal52 continued,
You wrote, QUOTE: “PAUL was the hardest working APOSTLE of all. Everything that he did was in accordance with the will of God.”
If you take these two sentences, and substitute “Muhammad” for “Paul” and “prophet” for “apostle”, you have exactly what Muslims believe.
Namely, that one special holy man who came after Jesus had the “complete revelation” and so he doesn’t need another witness because God is his witness. His writings and life example stand alone, above everyone else and all other writings in the history, (including everything else in the Bible.)
Matthew said:
“If you take these two sentences, and substitute “Muhammad” for “Paul” and “prophet” for “apostle”, you have exactly what Muslims believe. ”
The only problem with your comparison is that, Paul was not a Muslim and the god the Muslims believe in doesn’t exist. When Jesus told Ananias to go find Saul/Paul, Ananias hesitated and brought up the fact that Paul had been persecuting the church and Jesus said,
“Go! This man is my chosen instrument to carry my name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel. I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.” (Acts 9:15-16)
Therefore, no matter what claims you bring against Paul, I follow Christ. I believe in Scripture over you or anyone else and therefore, I believe what Jesus said regarding Paul in the above Scripture. If Jesus is appointing Paul to carry out his mission, who am I or you or anyone to question that?!
I agree.
You are speaking for yourself Al….First of all you missed the fact that I like Paul do not learn by man or of man but by Holy Ghost teaching.. Try it someday…
The very first thing God will do is empty your mind of all acquired lies…Truth just does not fit in with the lies…. All lies must go..If you retain one lie you will not be able to advance in knowledge of the Scriptures….It is sometimes painful to relinquish lies..Like the lie satan has planted about Israel… He has seen to it the apostles and early Christians which most were of he bloodlines of Isaac-Abraham are no longer considered Israel when they convert… Conversion in no way eraces geneology..Not understanding this confounds some of the Scriptures.. Chrsitans do not understand that they are the stars of heaven as are Abraham-Isaac’s descendans..Therefore hey multilate Rev. 12…and much more…
I hope the best for you Al….
Ruth,
Here is the problem. You think to yourself “I don’t need another witness because God is my witness”- like Paul. You are thinking like Paul. You are controlled by the spirit of Paul.
For a large part of his life, Paul thought that he had “the complete revelation”, that he knew everything, practically speaking, and so others should listen to him and follow his example without question, simply because “Paul said so.”
You wrote, Quote:
“I like Paul do not learn by man or of man but by Holy Ghost teaching..”
Here is another quote, from
The Evangelical Dictionary of Theology (edited by Walter A. Elwell) pg. 829.
Quote:
“Paul, Theology of. Paul gives two different accounts of the source of his theology. In Galatians 1:11-12, he insists that he did not receive it from men but “through a revelation of Jesus Christ”…. But in 1 Corinthinans 15:3-8 he pictures himself as simply passing on the tradition he had received about Christ’s atoning death, buriel and resurrection….
Either way, it is a problem to know why Paul presents the gospel in terms so different from those which Jesus himself used. For instance, why is “justification by faith” – scarcely present in in Jesus’ teaching – so prominent in Paul’s, and why does Paul virtually ignore Jesus’ great theme of the kingdom of God?”
So Ruth, are you saying that when Paul wrote 1 Corinthinans 15:3-8, Paul was not telling the truth? Or was Paul being untruthful when he wrote Galatians 1:11-12?
Or really it would be more accurate say that these texts are Paul’s opinions contained in his personal letters, which are in the Bible. They are not God’s commandments or the Testimony of Jesus, they are not “The Word of God.” They reflect Paul’s thinking at that point in time, but they are not the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, they are simply Paul’s testimony about himself and his own ideas, and sometimes Paul was wrong.
Perhaps the reason you have not been able to listen to the true Word of God spoken by others is that you are bound in spirit by the evil “spirit of Paul.” So “like Paul” you think your own ideas are valid without any other witnesses, even where they contradict the Testimony of Jesus, the Law and the Prophets (becaue “the Holy Spirit told me…”)
Matthew,
So Ruth, are you saying that when Paul wrote 1 Corinthinans 15:3-8, Paul was not telling the truth? Or was Paul being untruthful when he wrote Galatians 1:11-12?
I see no discrepancies between these verses..
As for witnesses The Lord always sends others to confirm his words…
You matthew are calling the Bible a lie, Jesus a liar and paul akin to satan in flesh…
You know next to nothing about Scripture…
Paul spoke of men like you…He said though WE, meaning the false Christians , or an angel from Heaven preach any other Gospel unto you let him be accursed…
Matthew… You need a real Bible… What you quoted is wrong and misleading…
Galatians 1–11, 12…..But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 15 -3-8..For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time….
Matthew you do not know the lord and you certainly do not believe His Words…
Ruth,
Not a whole lot needs to be said after your last three posts!
Wonderful Al, I am glad I am hlding your interest.. There may be hope for you after all..
When my kittie lays down to take a nap with me she always put her paw over my mouth… hmmmm, I wonder why…Sorry if I have been a know it all big mouth…
e1313, you give too much credit to Satan. His spirit can not be in two places or persons at the same time. Also, to say Satan has been bound up for a 1000 years, again your timing is completely wrong, in fact most of your writings on Revelations are in the future, not present.
Many preachers for the past 20-30 years have preached “imminent rapture,” If I believed them I would have a sore neck. I call these preachers, “deluded or worse, false.”
Satan will be bound up when Jesus returns (Rev 20). Satan has his demons, his soldiers, that will live in those people who do not accept Jesus or Christians who live a “sin life.” So when you talk of the “spirit” of antichrist it is not Satan that lives within that person but a demon. The world leader coming or “antichrist” will not initially have Satan living in him, maybe a multitude of demons, Satan comes into him when he is wounded then arises (like Jesus) and then tries to rule the world.
Regarding 2 Cor 11: 4,14 I do not see the point you are making unless you are confirming what I stated regarding false religions.
Another point, the woman in Rev 12 is Israel.
Maybe your cat needs more petting (pun).
God bless the believers.
Allan,
You are right about a “Pre-tribulation” “imminent rapture.” It’s “How to win friends and influence people”- just tell them what they want to hear, never tell anyone “you are wrong,” just tell them pleasant things.
“O no, your faith will never be tested, you won’t suffer, you don’t actually have to change and grow in obedience and relationship with Jesus… just repeat after me the magic words from the magic book and BELIEVE…. then no matter what you do, you can justify it.”
Allen, Revelation 12 is about the great falling away of Christians,…It is about the tares being separated and delivered to the fire… It is about the prophecy of Genesis 3-15, bruising the head and the heel…It is about the great wonders in heaven of Acts 2-19,20 and Joel 2-30, 31 and Revelation 6-12, 13..
It is about Lucifer ascending into heaven and claiming he is the God of Abraham and being kicked down to earth…
If it is about Israel it is about those of Isaac’s bloodline that converted to Jesus and the ones adopted via Jesus..
Some try to connect this chapter 12 to Israel because it speaks of the sun, moon and stars..They connect it to Joseph’s dream in Genesis..
.37-9, 10..I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me. And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?
If Jacob actually thought he was the sun, and his wife the moon and the stars Joseph’s brothers it would be astrology lore…
And not to mention it would mean the woman of Rev 12 is clothed with the sun meaning Joseph’s father, She has the moon meaning the mother under her feet and all the brothers in her crown..
This was a cleverly laid lie to hide the real truth of Revelation 12…
Allen, we are free to believe whatever we want but that does not make it necessarily the truth.
Jacob was actually referring to Joseph’s first dream when he made reference to himself, his wife and the stars…Genesis 37-7, 8…For, behold, we were binding sheaves in the field, and, lo, my sheaf arose, and also stood upright; and, behold, your sheaves stood round about, and made obeisance to my sheaf…And his brethren said to him, Shalt thou indeed reign over us? Or shalt thou indeed have dominion over us?
Ruth,
ambiguity=
1.doubt about meaning: a situation in which something can be understood in more than one way and it is not clear which meaning is intended
This is what you have done with what I wrote above. Of everything I have written on this website for years, you have chosen to think I changed my whole thinking from nothing less than an ambiguous statement:
Ruth,
“Not a whole lot needs to be said after your last three posts!”
To put it bluntly, you are doing the same thing with scripture. You see scripture however you need to, for it to line up with the theology that has been handed down to you by others, which you have chosen to believe. You think that what you believe was a collaboration between you and Ruach HaKodesh. It is anything but that!
I see you as a sister in Messiah and mean you no harm.
Messiah does not hate the Jews! He loves them and will bring them back to Him in the end. Messiah loves the Gentile assembly, but has not established them to condemn the Jews (their brothers and sisters) and set themselves on a pedestal. He will reunite them in the end-Jew and Gentile One New Man In Messiah-All Israel shall be saved and dwell in Eretz Yisrael.
You are basically teaching bigotry because the Jews will not embrace the paganism in Christianity and the fact that Yah has not opened their eyes yet to the fact of Yahshua being their Messiah. You condemn the Jews for their sin and glaze over the sin of the Christian Church. You are wrong in this. You are actually working against the reconciliation of all things, that Yah promised would happen at the end. We all have problems and issues we need to overcome, but your condemnation of the Jews is excessively virulent and does nothing to promote unity and oneness among the people of Yah through Messiah Yahshua.
I am not trying to be harsh, but you really need to open your eyes and look at the totality of scripture as it is written, without your preconceived ideas misinterpreting everything to fit your narrow view.
Be Blessed in Messiah Yahshua, Savior of both Jew and Gentile
al ,who hates the jews (Israelites)..Jesus was an israelite, most apostles were Israelites,,,,Thge blood of Israel is in the Christian church……WHY DO PEOPLE FAIL TO UNDERSTAND THIS…Do you think God discarded the bloodline of Israel when they convert…I think not…But men have….
Al, I think you need to learn what an Israelie is and what a jew is….Do you even understand about those who say they are jews but are not…???
Al I think you and Matthew are deliberately trying to lead people away from the truth……I thinkf you are eithert a jew or Hebrews 6-4,5,6 applies to you and Matthew
jews that are not referred originally to those jews who said they were believers but were false converts.
Matthew, this probably won’t do any good, but tell me what these verses mean..
John 14
5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.
Jesus is father, of Genesis 1-1 , He became Son when he came in flesh, and restored the holy ghost sprit of God to men….This is not three Gods,, this is not a trinity…This is one God….Do you know what Jesus meant when He said I am in the father and the father is in me????
Incidentally, all men that God indwells are SONS OF GOD..
God Himself told us in Genesis 43-10.,11..Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
READ THE WHOLE CHAPTER…
Ruth,
If you read John chapters 14 – 17, you can get the idea. Jesus is The Way to the Father, and the Holy Spirit will be sent in Jesus Name. The three persons of the Godhead are IN each other, sharing intimate fellowship and unity, like a perfect close knit family. Jesus doesn’t say “I am the Father” or “I am the Holy Spirit.”
Many of us have broken family backgrounds- and even in the best homes, none are perfect. Yet, we were created by God to be in families, husband, wife, father, mother, man, woman, boy and girl. The family reflects the character of God. We were not meant to be alone. That is why the Satan works so hard to destroy families and isolate people, getting them to focus on themselves, with the Satanic mantra “all is one.”
The Good News is that, through the Lord God Jesus, you can be brought into a new, loving, eternal family, that will never break up or be taken away from you. The family of Yahweh, the Most High God of Israel.
One more thing… Matthew…
Matthew 28-19..Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the NAME of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Was Peter confused about Jesus instructions or did Peter know the fathers, sons, and holy ghost’s name is JESUS..
Acts 2-38..Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the NAME OF JESUS CHRIST for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. .
Abraham and his clan did not know God by the name Jehovah but by his name of God almighty
Ex 6-3..And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them.Genesis 35-11…
Jesus is God almighty.. Revelation 1-8..I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
Hi Marianne,
Regarding how often I should post comments on your blog:
It has occurred to me that I should apply the principle Jesus reminds us of from the Torah- every matter should be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.
Many other religions have a “holy book” written by just one man- The Koran, the Book of Mormon, etc. Our Bible, including our New Testament, is different. Paul was the most prolific author in the New Testament, true. But he didn’t write all of it, or most of it, or 2/3 of it, or half of it. Paul wrote 33.4% by chapter count. One third. (That is yet another piece of evidence indicating to me that if Paul said one thing, but everyone else said something else, we should go with everyone else, the 2/3, rather than with Paul the 1/3.)
Back to my personal application.
Your site has 15 slots for “recent posts.” I think it’s a nice feature, and it gives people a chance to have their voice heard, so others can interact – if one person isn’t there with a megaphone drowning everyone else out. Once recently, I noticed that 9 out of the 15 recent posts were from just one person. It looked sort of like a bright green snake had almost covered the page.
I myself have been guilty a few times of posting more than 5 posts among your 15 “recent posts.” But other than for you as the moderator, I think that 5 should be plenty for any one person- at least for me. I think this would show patience, self-control, respect, and the right attitude, that I don’t know everything and so if my share of voice is 1/3, that should be more than enough. God gave me one mouth but two ears.
“Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has been pleased to give you the kingdom.” [Luke 12:32]
matthew
It is hard from this end to control how many times one person posts a comment. It might be easier if they just posted all they wanted one time, rather than breaking it up into smaller posts.
Unless there is something wrong with the comment, I allow it, irregardless of the view point. someone would have to be profane or abusive before I would pull it…
and sometimes i am not here, so some comments are already posted by the time I come back to the computer….
I guess green is not your favorite color now.
be patient…it is a virtue 🙂
Firstly, Matthew, thanks for the support, it reminds me of what Spurgeon said, – The Prince of Preachers:
“You and I cannot be useful if we want to be sweet as honey in the mouths of men. God will never bless us if we wish to please men, that they may think well of us. Are you willing to tell them what will break your own heart in the telling and break theirs in the hearing? If not, you are not fit to serve the Lord. You must be willing to go and speak for God, though you will be rejected.”
If you take Matt 24 where Jesus spelled out chronologically how the end times play out, we have the rapture at the end, but these deluded/false preachers mock Jesus, and bring it to the start of Jesus’ testimony in Matt 24.
Preachers have told me that Jesus was speaking to the Jews, my refrain is, “did these followers believe in Jesus?” if they did then they were the first Christians. Like the Word tells us, in the last days people will only listen to what pleases them.
e1313,
I am convinced you are confused. You are interpreting between the lines and Scripture. You say this knowledge comes from the Holy Spirit? The Word tells us to check the source, ask this “spirit” if “Jesus is the Son of God” and “did Jesus die on the cross and was raised from the dead 3 days later?”
God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are three different persons but inter-linked spiritually. Jesus was with God in the beginning (John 1).
Yes, Jesus was God in the flesh (John 1).
Know one here on earth can understand the linkage because we are not in the spirit, we just accept it by faith.
In 1 John 5:7-8 the Word tells us that their are three in heaven who bear witness, “the Father, the Word (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit.
In the Old Testament it is Jesus who created the world and everything in it.
God bless the discerning.
Allen I cut and pasted scripture, so your disagreement is not with me but with God’s word…
1 John 5-7..For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. ……..
THESE THREE ARE ONE…THESE THREE ARE ONE THESE THREE ARE ONE..
I guess when I realized what a sinner I am I also realized Jesus needed no baptism…
I guess when I encountered the temptation of Rev. 3-9, 10 I also realized Jesus could never be tempted….All of his actions were performed so men would follow his examples set forth..JESUS IS GOD…He came in flesh…He indwells believers…He is the spirit of truth..He even said “I AM TRUTH”.He is the holy ghost comforter..He told Thomas He is the father….He came as Son because all men are God’s sons when God indwells them..
Have you ever wondered why the holy spirit is called holy spirit until after Jesus death…Then He was called holy ghost..
You know Allen The Bible says the mysteries are reserved for the glory of God’s people…Perhaps the mystery of the trinity -godliness Is being revealed now…..as are so many other mysteries it is almost mind boggling… And this is happening to people all over the world…
e1313, I am unsure whether you check what you write. Let me remind you what you stated: “Jesus is father, of Genesis 1-1 , He became Son when he came in flesh, and restored the holy ghost sprit of God to men….This is not three Gods,, this is not a trinity…This is one God….”
That statement e1313, is basically blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, you are denying the Spirits power and work.
The Father sits on the throne in heaven, Jesus sits beside Him, remember what Jesus told the disciples (Luke 16:19).
If Jesus is here now in the Holy Spirit why would He have to come back? He is already here!
No! you are totally confused and need to read your Bible with an open mind and let the Scriptures talk to you instead of this spirit.
The God head is 3 separate individuals, they have their own personality.
Maybe you can understand God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit by reading either Smith Wigglesworth or Watchman Nee who both had a deep understanding of God.
The Holy Spirit or Comforter, is the Spirit of God that indwells true believers.
You can always tell a true believer, “they can not stop talking about Jesus.” Why? because the Holy Spirit indwells them.
Anyone who calls themselves a Christian or believer but is not on fire for Jesus in that they neither talk about Jesus or what He has done in their lives I am suspect of. Many are called, but few are chosen.
God bless the discerners.
Allen if you want to believe God is three persons which brings him down to human level and possible multiple personalities level go for it…
You could wind up like a Doctor I visited recently…He had thrown Jesus away and made the statement that Mohammed claimed to be the comforter because he was messiah like Jesus….That is the unforgivable blasphemy against the holy ghost…It is when people believe and or teach that Satan aka Mohammed is the holy ghost comforter……..2 Corinthians 11-14, 4 shows who Mohammed really was..
If you would read John 14 carefully you would see that Jesus is the comforter… The comforter is the holy ghost..
John 14-18..I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
John 14-26..But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
Also Allen you said If Jesus is here now in the Holy Spirit why would He have to come back? He is already here!
Jesus contradicts your words in Matthew 28-20..Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Ruth – or is it “e1313 Banshee” ?
The Holy Spirit spoke to me specifically about you, as I alluded to earlier. He told me: “She’s posting like a Banshee.”
The word Banshee was not in my vocabulary. I had never used it before in my life. I had never even heard the word for decades. From my youth, I had a vague understanding that it meant something like an evil spirit or wild vicious monster, but I had to look it up in the dictionary.
I don’t have a Pentecostal background, but I think in some circles, this is referred to as a “word of knowledge.” We don’t need to debate terms. My testimony isn’t valid without another witness anyway. But it would be wise to consider- is it true?
Above on this topic thread, you posted 6 unanswered comments, (with no one responding) in the space of 38 minutes.
December 15, 2013 at 11:01 pm
December 15, 2013 at 11:11 pm
December 15, 2013 at 11:15 pm
December 15, 2013 at 11:22 pm
December 15, 2013 at 11:30 pm
December 15, 2013 at 11:39 pm
Does this reflect Fruit of the Spirit, like Peace, Patience, Gentleness, and Self-control? Or the spirit of a “Banshee” who acts like a one-woman army, because she has “unique insights” into the “mysteries” of Scripture from the “Holy Spirit” (like Paul), so she is right and everyone else is wrong? So you set up what you think is your “Holy Spirit Machine Gun”, and blast away at everyone in sight without thinking or listening.
You have asked many many questions, some reasonable and rational, some irrational. I have taken the time to give honset answers to some of your questions. But I see that even when I do that, you don’t have an ear to listen, learn, and stay “on topic” to discuss it, so we can learn from each other.
I don’t know everything – but neither do you! You constantly move around, dodging the issues, changing the subject, avoiding the question, causing confusion, with a spirit of Babel and noise, while you fire out more new questions and ideas without listening.
Satan loves to “cut and paste Scripture” just like you do. That is what Satan did when he tempted Jesus, [Matthew chapter 4, Psalm 91:11-12] Does that mean that Jesus’ “disagreement is not with Satan but with God’s word” ?
I am in agreement with Allan’s word written to you specifically above. Will you “check the source” of this “spirit” as Allan is asking below?
“e1313,
I am convinced you are confused. You are interpreting between the lines and Scripture. You say this knowledge comes from the Holy Spirit? The Word tells us to check the source, ask this “spirit” if “Jesus is the Son of God” and “did Jesus die on the cross and was raised from the dead 3 days later?”
Matthew again I ask are you daft??????? I not only know Jesus was Son of God I understand why it was necessary fro God to come as Son of God….Adam was Son of God until he believed satan’s lies…and .Adam lost God’s spirit of truth…God’s indwelling sprit is what makes men into sons of god….Jesus came as Son of God to restrore this spirit in men…
When men reproduce they plant their seed in a woman…
When God reproduces (brings forth sons) he plants his seed in men’s minds and hearts..The SEED is the word of God…Luke 8-11..We are born again of the word of God……Satan does likewise.Precisely why the koran produces liars and killers ,etc..
Mathew, I too think the Lord gave you the word BANSHEE…Not because I am a witch or a fraud but so you would understand God has sent me to warn you and maybe some others….We most defiantely are in the hour of temptation and a spiritual dangerous time for all …He is trying to shw you the real truth as He has shown me..
The Lord has been sending me on errands for many years…Those that belong to the Lord hear…Those that do not belong to the Lord attack and lie about me or my words..For reasons unknowwn to me I am still on this site…
You guys should remember 10 on one is cowards fun…
I guess now the Lord Himself will have to back up my words as He tried to do with Matthew and the word BANSHEE….which Matthew discarded as evil..
Deut 9, 10, 11 shows that during Moses 40 days on the mount the children of Israel were playing footsie with the golden calf aka the moon god…Is this WHY God gave Moses the 10 commandments and the 613 ordinances…These are called the administration of death..2 Cor 2-7-14…..But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away….This generation all died….
God foreknew no man could keep all of the commandments all the time…The 613 ordinances provided death for punishments many times…. These commandments would not be the ministration of death if one live by faith, and forgiveness,… not the law. And ordinances….
Has anyone ever connected the 40 days of flooding in Genesis…Moses 40 days on the mount and Jesus fasting 40 days before the temptation???
It appears some in this site think the spirit within me is of satan….Isn’t that what the scribes said to Jesus… that he had an unclean spiirit aka satan..Mark 3-29. 30..Better wake up,….
I feel so bad for you. The spirit and delusion you are under has totally taken over control of you. These are your words. Do yourself a favor and listen to them:
“He is trying to shw you the real truth as He has shown ME..”
Evidently you are the ONLY ONE who knows what the REAL truth is.
“The Lord has been sending ME on errands for many years…Those that belong to the Lord hear…”
It seems that it is only those that listen to you that BELONG to the LORD. You seem to have become the litmus test for Yah.
“Those that do not belong to the Lord attack and lie about ME or MY words..”
Well, I guess that even those who question the veracity of what you say, “do not belong to the Lord”.
“It appears some in this site think the spirit within ME is of satan….Isn’t that what the scribes said to Jesus…”
Now you are comparing yourself to Messiah.
Honestly Ruth! You need to get out and interact with people. Exchange ideas with others and LEARN something. Evidently the body of Messiah is not needed. He has you, His one man.. I mean His one woman show. That should be a warning sign for you. Messiah does not work this way. There is personal salvation which leads to corporate salvation. What you are experiencing is what happens when a person only listens to the voices in their head. You are truly an example of what eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil looks like. You have a little truth mixed in with a whole lot that is from the enemy, and you are clueless about it. The sad part is, even saying these things to you will probably push you further into your delusion.
Ruth, look how many times you have used the word “me” in the remarks you made above:
“He has shown ME”
“has been sending ME”
“attack and lie about Me or MY words”
“the spirit within ME”
Please, get out and mingle with others and come down off of your Messiah complex. I truly hope you can hear what everyone is saying. No one means you any harm.
Be Blessed sister Ruth
Hi Allan, and Al and Marianne,
You can see that the “e1313 Banshee” will not say
“Jesus is THE Son of God” or
“Jesus died on the cross and was raised from the dead 3 days later.”
She /it will say only “Jesus was Son of God” – and “Adam was Son of God,” but not THE Son of God. Of course as believers, we are all sons and daughters of God, so I could say that I too am A son of God. But I’m not THE Son of God, just like Jesus is.
Then she dodges the questions and changes the subject again, posting 5 more unanswered posts on top of each other in less than an hour.
December 18, 2013 at 7:59 pm
December 18, 2013 at 8:03 pm
December 18, 2013 at 8:10 pm
December 18, 2013 at 8:40 pm
December 18, 2013 at 8:54 pm
The Holy Spirit showed me that she is demonized by the spirit of a “Banshee.” (I can’t say for sure about her salvation.) Not only did she decline to deny this, but rather she herself just confirmed it ! But she says it’s OK, because she’s a GOOD Banshee….
“e1313 Banshee” wrote:
“Mathew, I too think the Lord gave you the word BANSHEE…Not because I am a witch or a fraud but so you would understand God has sent me to warn you and maybe some others….”
Perhaps 2 or 3 of us could agree to pray for deliverance at a particular time together? Please let me know what you think.
Jesus called the pharisees who preferred the law over faith serpents..And he said believers will take up serpents and if they drink any dedly thing it will not hurt them… Do you have any idea of what that means…??? It means you will drink the deadly poisoned water of death these serpents offer you…in lieu of the word of God… or their personal interprettion of God’s words…and it will not hurt you..
Matthew, Al and Allen do not understand any of the mysteries reserved for the glory of God’s people….If you do not change you will not be among those left standing ……
Your old covenant law and ordinaces is only one of the deceptions today..There are many others….Too bad you guys are so set into your lies…
And you Matthew with your lies and hatred of Paul is just another way of saying the Bible is a liar and Jesus is a fraud and stupid because He personally hand picked Paull You are pathetic..
Al, I am not your sister…We do not know the same Lord…
“We do not know the same Lord…”
Unfortunately, there is a lot of truth in what you said!
Al, you do not even know what the Bible says is the STRONG DELUSION GOD sends to unbelievers…It is in the Bible.. Ask your God and see if he can show you…
It is this simple….I encountered a muslim on line before 9-11…I knew absolutely nohing about Islam….The muslim began telling me allah was the God of Abraham…My reply to him was “The false prophets of Baal also said Baal was the God of Abraham, ..but Elijah know his God was not baal.”….Allah is most definately Baal, aka satan….It had to be the Lord speaking through me…..Something I am sure is alien to Al, and matthew….
I only hope Mariann keeps her guard up against you guys..
allen, al, matthew and ruth
Having a doctrinal disagreement is not blasphemy.
No one should be calling anyone a banshee here.
that is rude, and dont’ say the holy spirit told you to say that.
we all believe we are saved by the blood of Jesus, and that is what counts.
I am having surgery tomorrow – thursday – and I will not be available much for a few days.
please do not kill each other!
or harass each other!
back soon….
Hi M, my prayers are with you and I trust you have a deep faith for the Lord in your operation, God bless you and the doctors.
Matthew & Al, wise and discerning comments, God bless you both.
M, in God’s love we are correcting e1313ruth and like the Bereans we are using Scripture, and yes, we are pulling her leg or baiting her to some degree but with a Biblical love.
And also, she seems to be on a path of her own (destruction) so wise advise is dismissed by her to her own detriment which is sad.
e1313ruth, again, I reiterate, you are reading too much between the lines/Scripture and not understanding the advice we are giving you, or the Scripture.
God is not a God of confusion, He is a God of understanding but you are all confused, so we are asking why are you confused with Scripture?
There is an obvious reason, we have told you but you have rejected this advice.
So for M’s sake and my sanity I will withdraw from this petty and unsolving discussion. I pray the Lord will help you.
God bless the discerners.
It is said that those who commit the “unpardonable sin” have no desire to come to God for salvation or if they had known God at one time, they will never seek Him again! Being concerned”ohh my, I have committed the unpardonable sin”, oh my, oh my, oh my!!! Such folk HAVE NOT committed this sin!!! Like the third of the angels that fell with satan they knew full well what they were doing but DID IT ANYWAY!!! It is a process of hardening the heart&willfully sinning against God&His Word!!! Extreme bitterness/hatred/anger/cruelty ect is needed over time, also unforgiveness! There are those who “PRIDE THEMSELVES” of committing this sin&love the fact they have done this!!! Those who take the mark of the beast commit this sin, also in the Millenium with the “super-goodness of God on earth, but those who reject Jesus Christ&the “direct revelation ” of that age&when “mortal innocence” is established in the Millenium, those who fall from the innocence in the Millenium will be like crucifying Jesus Christ “afresh or a second time” which is unpardonable! So in addition to mortal innocence, unsalvageable depravity will be very possible during the Millenium!!!
Peter 1-10., 11..Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. JESUS IS THE SPRIT THAT INDWELLED ALL PROPHETS, INCLUDING PAUL AND THE TWELVE APOSTLES..
Isaiah 53 is example of the testimony of the suffering of Jesus…Jesus is that spirit that indwelled David and testified of the suffering of Christ..
Jesus is God….
1 Peter 1- 21…Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
Means we cannot apply our own personal interpretations to the Scriptures that were penned by holy ghost men of old..
1 Peter 1-22…For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
Means the prophecies came not by the will of man nor is interpreted by the will of man…They must be revealed..
The Biblical meaning of the word interpretation is…
To unloose, untie
To clear (a controversy), decide, settle
To explain (what is obscure and hard to understand)
Jesus quoted the Torah reminding us that every matter should be
“established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.”
[Matthew 18:15-20, Deuteronomy 19:15]
yes
Matthew,
2 Corinthains 3-7..But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:…..What need have we of the ministration of death when w have the Gospel of life..
If you all understood the Godhead. The Holy Spirit is God the Father. God is a Spirit was said by Jesus- Jesus also said The Word is Spirit – The Holy Spirit — All the same thing. My goodness its depressing – But Paul called it the Mystery of Godliness. This is a bad testimony for all the so called Christian church’s in the World that believe they are 3 persons in the godhead. Then you are saying you going to shake hands with the Father the word=son – and the Holy Spirit. Mystery unveiled – There is only ONE Person in the God head. If not then you are worshiping 3 idols. It would be Idolatry to worship 3 different gods. Study the Bible yourself and look up the words. Quit letting the False Prophets tell you lies.
If you reject God – you also reject the Word – and you also reject Holy Spirit. Cause they all the same PERSON.
Their is a Lighthouse – run to it before its to late. Get rid of your own ideas. And seek God by yourself on your knee’s in sincerity.
Dear lighthouse,
You urged us “Study the Bible yourself” and “Get rid of your own ideas.”
But, you have not shared a single verse of the Bible with us! Only your own ideas, with no back up!
Where are you getting these wild Unorthodox ideas? Let every matter be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses. (If you want to quote just one witness, Paul, like the previous post – out of context by the way – that is not 2 or 3.)
“The Holy Spirit descended on him [Jesus] in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: ‘You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.'” [Luke 3:22]
MATTHEW
Lighthouse is a witness and I am a witness ..I gave you the Bible verses ..Isaiah 43-10..God himself he would have witnesses that would witness that HE WAS FORMED IN FLESH… Jesus chose the witnesses..Acts 1-8…But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
I also explained that Jesus baptism was example set forth for us to follow..Jesus was sinless…He needed no baptism…He was also indwelled by holy ghost…Jesus baptism and temptation were for example for man to follow… You have to be pretty self righteous to think God in flesh needs to be baptised for sin…
Lighthouse,
Forgive me, but it is you who doesn’t understand that the Lord our God is one God, but exists as three distict persons.
“He went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne.”
The verse above is from Revelation. If it is the Lamb (Jesus) that that takes the seven sealed scroll from him who is sitting on the throne, then who is it that is sitting on the throne? Jesus can’t be taking the scroll from himself. The only one who can be sitting on the throne is God the Father and the Lamb (Jesus) is taking the scroll from his right hand.
“In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,a coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.” (Dan.7:13)
In the Scripture above, the Son of Man is Jesus, where the Ancient of Days represents God the Father. The Scripture shows that the Son of Man (Jesus) is being led into God the Father’s presence also showing two persons of the Godhead.
Jesus said to them, “You will indeed drink from my cup, but to sit at my right or left is not for me to grant. These places belong to those for whom they have been prepared by my Father.”
In the verse above, Jesus states that to sit on his left or right hand is not his to grant, but for those whom the Father has prepared them for, which would also show the two individual persons of the Father and Son. The Lord our God is one God, but are individual persons of the same God.
“And as he was praying, heaven was opened and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”
In the verse above, we have all three of the Godhead, Jesus coming up out of the water after being baptized, the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove landing on Jesus and God the Father speaking from heaven. This shows one God, three individuals.
“But about the Son the Father says,
“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy.”
The Father also says regarding the Son,
“In the beginning, Lord, you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment. You will roll them up like a robe;
like a garment they will be changed. But you remain the same, and your years will never end.” To which of the angels did God ever say, “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet”?
In the Scriptures above, God the Father refers to the Son as God. The Father states that the Son laid the foundations of the earth and the heavens are the work his hands. Individuallity is also shown by the fact that Jesus sits at the right hand of the Father.
Since we know that there is only one God and Scripture shows that there is individuallity, then the only conclusion that we can come to about God is that our God is made up of three distinct persons, for Scripture shows them working independently of each other. there are many, many more examples of this throughout Scripture, but I think that the point has been made that the Lord our God, though three distinct persons, is One God.
How could Jesus, being on the cross say, “My God! My God! Why have you forsaken me?” I think that you need to reevaluate what you have read.
dmcal, it took me a long time before I understood there is only one God…God is a spirit…He became a man, namely Jesus…The holy ghost is that part of God’s spirit that indwells men and transforms them into sons of god..
The Lord had to show us the way and He did…..We are to follow his example, including his death on the cross for man Christians..
Think about it… Jesus was sinless..He needed no baptism…. God cannot be tempted…He endured the temptation to give us the example to follow when we encounter the last temptation of Rev. 3- 9, 10..which is Islam and maybe some other cults.
dmcal52,
Thank you for taking time to make such an accurate, clear, well-researched summary. I was not very familiar with a couple of those passages, so I learned something from you.
I don’t see how anyone could read your summary and then still not see that the Godhead is three persons in one. But I guess Satan blinds some people.
Blessings in Jesus name,
You are very welcome. I’m just zealous for the truth and accuracy of the word of God to point these things out, as we all should be.
Yours in Christ
Matthew, Ruth and all,
Just for the sake of cementing this issue in, here are some other examples:
John 1:1-2
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning.
Regarding the individuality of God, how can the Word be with God and at the same time be God? And He (the word) was with God in the beginning. This clearly infers individual persons, being the same God.
“Then Peter said, ‘Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.” ”
In this verse we see that the designation of the Holy Spirit and God are used interchangeably to refer to God: ” How is it Satan has filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit” compared to “You have not lied to men, but to God.” Holy Spirit = God.
“And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.”
Here again we see the individuality of Jesus Christ and God the Father where for one, Jesus is praying to the Father and two, his mention of returning to the glory that he had with the Father prior to coming in the flesh.
There are just too many examples to mention, as I have only hit on a few in comparison.
Jesus was baptised of the water and the sprit… This is what God wants us to do…Water baptism , receiving holy ghost indwelling which transformed us into sons of God because the Son of God, aka holy ghost indwells us… Remember there is neithr male nor female in Christ jesus, Jew nor greek , free nor bond.. all are Christs and Christ is God…t
Gal 3-28, 29..There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
V. 2;9..And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Jesus The Son of God quoted the Torah: “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’?”
[Matthew 19:4-5]
Matthew, It says IN CHRIST JESUS there is neither male nor female..It means in the body of Christ there is no prejudiced ofr preference of one over another….
Gal 3-27, 28..For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
e1313
You are saying that Paul (writing in a personal letter) is right, and
Jesus (quoting the Torah) is wrong.
Sorry- not for me.
I am following Jesus.
Would you like for me to quote Moses words about the cursed laws and ordinances…Moses knew God was sending the Israelites to their death via the laws and ordinances…There is no life in the laws and ordinances…Faith is where we find life here and eternally..
Matthew what is this verse saying???
Daniel 9-11..Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.
Deut. 29..
25 Then men shall say, Because they have forsaken the covenant of the Lord God of their fathers, which he made with them when he brought them forth out of the land of Egypt:
26 For they went and served other gods, and worshipped them, gods whom they knew not, and whom he had not given unto them:
27 And the anger of the Lord was kindled against this land, to bring upon it all the curses that are written in this book:
28 And the Lord rooted them out of their land in anger, and in wrath, and in great indignation, and cast them into another land, as it is this day.
Joshua 8-34..And afterward he read all the words of the law, the blessings and cursings, according to all that is written in the book of the law…
Gal 3-10..For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Has it ever entered your mind that in Jesus temptation when satan said”command these stones be made bread” that satan was rferring to the stone commandments???…..You, Matthew are making these stones into bread… Whereas Jesus said you must live by every word of God…That very much does included Paul’s writings.. And Paul told us about the administration of death moses gave the children of Israel..after they bowed down to the golden calf..
I am sure Islam is the last temptation of Rev 3- 9, 10 …I also know the temptation of jesus was example for us to follow…But remember Islam’s shariah law is based on old covenant laws and ordinances… Like stoning adulters, killing blasphemers, etc…………………………….You are sending yourself to hell …..
Moses was gone 40 days and the Israelites cave in….Jesus fasted forty days and nights..and then satan presented what amounts to the the ten commandments written in stone…..You Matthew I say AGAIN are trying to turn STONES INTO BREAD…
John 6-32..Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
The real truth is until God’s two love laws are written in the heart man will always break the ten commandments…Them we realize we are hurting God and man and we refrain..
Come Spirit of God – in Hebrew & English
dmcal52 – 2 questions
How could Jesus, being on the cross say, “My God! My God! Why have you forsaken me?” I think that you need to re-evaluate what you have read.
PSALM 22:1¶ To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David. My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
PSALM 22:2 – O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.
Jesus was on the Cross dying and HE was Quoting a True Prophecy about Himself on the Cross. Proving He was Messiah. The self righteous church of that time. Did not catch this great prophecy of Jesus Christ.
What does Psalm 22 mean. That God stepped into a “Body of Flesh and Blood” to become a Human – So that HE could die as a man. Because Adam was a man but sinned and caused “all of mankind” to fall. So it took a Kinsmen redeemer -A God/man with flesh and blood to really redeem “Mankind back to God”. Animal life could not do it and that was only a substitute till the REAL Sacrifice of God/man stepped forth to redeem mankind.
To redeem man took a PERFECT man. NO MAN was worthy except a God/ Man that was Perfect cause God is the only PERFECT their is and to actually take away our sins it took a perfect sacrifice.
Read Rev. 5th. Chapter and it explains it real well.
A Spirit cannot be nailed to a cross.
Son/ship is Always God IN Man – We are Sons of God the Bible says. And our life is to be a sacrifice itself as well. And God becoming a man left us the True example of what a Christian should be. In Character, and Image.
Next scripture of Psalms says
Why did Jesus say My God My God why hast thou forsaken me.
Jesus Christ had to feel every pain that mankind felt in their lives. He had to really be forsaken to understand what mankind felt as well. And do we not all cry out to God for Redemption when we see death as it really is. We are hopeless without our Kinsmen Redeemer. The Sacrificial Lamb for all of mankind to come to. Once and for all – Jesus said “It is Done”
After it was DONE – Christ went back to “God the Spirit” for HIS sacrifice to be received and put on the Alter for all of Mankind. As the High had to offer the animal sacrifice to God in the O.T. So Jesus did the same thing.
Jesus went back to God-the Spirit -an or Holy Spirit with His Sacrifice as in the O.T and then HIS Spirit came back on the day of Pentecost and filled the 120 with the HOLY SPIRIT – making them all “Sons and Daughters of God” God finished HIS PLAN OF SALVATION –
God the Father – created HIS own BODY of FLESH to dwell in and become a SON so HE could “Sacrifice Himself” and show His abundant mercy, and love to all of mankind. And if we accepted His Holy Sacrifice by faith. Then HE Filled us with HIMSELF = the Holy Spirit –
That is the Truth and nothing but the Truth so help me God. That is “Thus Saith the Lord”
There is a Light House that Lives IN Man and make’s him a Brand New Creation. Will you come to that Lighthouse today. Ask Him into your heart.
Lighthouse,
Just like so many people, you are ignoring the obvious. Jesus and the Father are two persons being the same God. I have provided ample proof of this and still you don’t understand. My point about Jesus saying, “My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?” shows that Jesus was speaking to someone else, that being, God the Father. In saying this, Jesus is not talking to himself! God the Father was not on the cross, but that part of God that took on human form called Jesus Christ was. When Jesus said, “I and my Father are one” he was speaking about being one as God. Jesus is not the Father, nor is the Father Jesus. You can’t have the Lamb (Jesus) walking up and taking the seven sealed scroll out of the right hand of the Father without them being individual persons. why don’t you understand this? Jesus can’t be the Father when he is praying to the Father. When Jesus was on the mountain and was transformed into his glorified state before Peter, James and John, a cloud then envelope them and a voice spoke from the cloud saying “This is my Son, listen to him.” Here again we see the individuality of God the Father and God the Son. You cannot escape this fact. In the beginning was the Word (Jesus) and the Word was with God (the Father) and the word was God.
In the garden of Eden, after Adam and Eve disobeyed God, God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil”
When Nimrod was constructing the tower of Babel, Scripture states that God said, “Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”
The “Us” in both of the Scriptures above is speaking of the individual persons of Godhead. Jesus was representing, in the flesh, the fullness of the deity. But Jesus himself was not the Father, nor is the Father Jesus. Jesus also said, “whoever confesses my name before men, I will also confess his name before my Father and his holy angels.” The Father and Son are One God, but two separate persons.
When Jesus was about ready to ascend into heaven, his disciples asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?” And Jesus said, “It is not for you to know the times and dates the Father has set by his own authority.”
In the verse above, Jesus is speaking of another person other than himself, God the Father. He does the same thing when James and John requested to sit one on Jesus’ left and one on his right, but Jesus stated that it wasn’t his decision to make, but his Fathers. This again shows individual persons of the Godhead.
“They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! For the great day of their wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”
Notice in the above Scripture that there is a distinction made between him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb, which again infers two persons. Also, “The great day of [their] wrath has come” would infer two persons, ergo the word “Their.”
You are just ignoring the truth regarding this issue, instead of being truthful with yourself in the face of Scripture. Now, I do not pretend to fully understand the nature of God, but I can come to an understanding that based on these and other Scriptures, that God is made up of three persons, but is One God, that is, they are all individual persons of the same God.
Dwell in the midst of us
John MacArthur (Grace to You – Grace Community Church)
Strange Fire Panel Question and Answer, Session 2 October 18, 2013
Quote:
“When I look at myself I say look, I know I am wrong somewhere, and if you can show me where, please show me, cause I would change. But I know somewhere I’m wrong because none of us has a complete control of all truth.”
The Orthodox doctrine is that “The Bible” is not “A Book.” It is a collection of 66 books, which are not all equally authoritative. The top priority should be the 4 Gospels, above all other books, because Jesus is on top.
“Reformed Theology” is largely based on Paul’s teachings, emphasizing “grace” and “justification by faith,” with the Book of Romans seen as “the God-given key to understand all Scripture.”
If you believe that Paul’s letters are above the 4 Gospels, or equal to the 4 Gospels, could you open your Bible and explain specifically why?
(Note: Peter wrote about “prophecy of Scripture”, not “all Scripture.” Other than Paul writing “All Scripture in God-breathed” in the middle of one personal letter, I am not aware of anyone in the pages of the Bible who made any implication that every word of the 66 books of the Bible were “God-breathed” or equally authoritative or in perfect harmony with every other part.)
I appreciate Pastor MacArthur’s commitment to holiness and to “the truth.” So as he said, “I know I am wrong somewhere, and if you can show me where, please show me, cause I would change.”
Let every matter be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.
One young panelist said:
“When we go to the word of God we are sitting at the feet of the author of the word of God and the Holy Spirit is the one who has given us this book, so to go to the Scriptures is to go to the Spirit.”
How is this last quote different from saying that “The Trinity is the Father, Son, and Holy Scriptures”???
Matthew,
This is where we differ, for I believe that this entire collection of books that makes up the bible is God-Breath, that is, God given, all of it. Notice that when Jesus was speaking to the teachers of the law and the Pharisees that he kept referring back to the prophets, the law and psalms. In Mathew 24:15, Jesus quoted Daniel 9:27 regarding that coming ruler and the abomination of desolation. The Psalms and the prophets, Daniel, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel and others, prophecy of the details of the suffering Messiah. The four living beings (cherubim) mentioned in Revelation who say “Holy, Holy, Holy” are also mentioned by Ezekiel and Isaiah. My point is the word of God, both old and new testaments are consistent, that is, they support each other. The entire bible is God’s word. For someone to come along and dissect the word of God would be taking away from God’s word and who has the authority to mess with this? It is either all the word of God or none of it is.
These books are here because God gave them to us and we should not consider any of them as not having God as their author, including all that Paul wrote. There is no reason for excluding Paul from the Scriptures.
dmcal52,
I appreciate you previous scholarship, and your willingness to think and communicate. You are right, Jesus was “referring back to the prophets, the law and psalms.” Jesus consistently dissected the Hebrew Scriptures into their 3 categories, in order of priority.
Torah
Prophets
Writings (leading off with the Psalms)
I am not “excluding Paul from the Scriptures.” I am putting Paul’s (personal) letters where they belong- in the third, least authoritative category of New Testament Scripture, underneath the 4 Gospels and the Prophecy (Acts and Revelation).
I am using Jesus as my model for how to look at “The Scriptures.”
Here is a passage that I know you are very familiar with- but probably you have not thought through the implications of Jesus’ words.
“Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: ‘Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?’”
Jesus replied: “’Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these TWO commandments.” [Matthew 22:36-40, Deuteronomy 6:5, Leviticus 19:18]
Of course, none of Paul’s letters, or any other part of the New Testament, was written at the time when Jesus said this.
Jesus is dissecting the Scriptures here, giving priority to the Law and the Prophets. He didn’t mention the third category, the Writings. Was Jesus “excluding them from the Scriptures”? No. But he was prioritizing. And Jesus didn’t say “All Scripture is God-breathed.”
Jesus also tended to give priority to the Psalms over the other books contained in “The Writings”.
And in terms of the content, Jesus gave an answer that set the correct priorities, in the correct order, of the first and greatest commandment and the second, connected together. But not “The Great Commandment.”
I understand where you are coming from. I was trained that way. It is easier and feels “safer” to just say “The entire bible is God’s word” with the idea that “if you question the Bible you are questioning God.” That is what Muslims do with The Koran.
In essence, you are making The Bible into God- or more accurately, your interpretation of The Bible. And you are presupposing that there is no order of priority, everything “harmonizes,” so if Paul said or wrote something it must be right, and if Paul did something it must be true. You are assuming Paul does not need another witness- he is “the exception.”
In places where Paul was obviously wrong, even contradicting the clear teaching of Jesus, you then have to rationalize and justify Paul based on Paul’s feelings, experience, perceived intentions, and “what Paul really meant…”
But Jesus set priorities of authority among different parts of the Scriptures, and he reminded us that a matter should be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.
We should follow the example of Jesus. Wouldn’t you agree?
Matthew,
You can’t have some of the books contained in the bible as God-Breathed and others as not and that because the books that are not God-breathed can not be relied on as Scripture nor could they be preached as the truth. All that Paul wrote was not of his own will, just as none of the other apostles wrote of their own will. who are you or anyone for that matter, to dissect God’s word to decide which is God-given and which is not? Who taught you this? These books of the bible should be read as the word of God and considered equal as Scripture. When Paul said, “All Scripture is God-breathed,” that is exactly what God wanted us to know, not Paul. Paul had problems with people regarding his apostleship during his time, just like there are now, which prompted him to say,
“I want you to know, brothers and sisters, that the gospel I preached is not of human origin. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.”
Paul here is assuring them that the teachings that he has given to them was not from men nor did he receive it from any man, but he received it by revelation from Jesus Christ. So, the only conclusion is that, either Paul was a liar and a false apostle or what he is saying is God given. This is the apostle that was caught up to the third heaven and received visions and revelations. The Lord is the author of Paul’s writings and are not Paul’s own personal beliefs or ideas. As I said earlier, I have not been trained by anyone, which is a benefit to me, because I have not swayed by a multitude of teachers. You on the other hand have learned what you claiming from some other teacher or teachers and I can tell you that it is false. All of these books contained within the bible are to be regarded as the word of God and nothing to be rejected. Anything that is not God-breathed is therefore not Scripture and would be useless for teaching, training, correcting, rebuking and contending for the truth of God’s word.
This is the end of the issue as far as I am concerned. If you want to continue to support this type of thinking, then you are free to do so, but I regard all of these books with God as the author. Everything that Paul wrote is equal to the rest of the Scriptures and that because it came from God. Don’t you think that God is powerful enough to make sure that we have his complete word without corruption?
dmcal52,
It’s like a “night and day” contrast between your postings about The Trinity, and your postings about Paul. About the Trinity, you are so accurate, so well grounded, and you made it so clear and obvious, from the Scripture. And yet, some others are still blinded by Satan’s “all is one” mantra.
In contrast, your post above reflects the same kind of blindness about Paul that those others showed about the obvious 3 distinct persons in one of the God-head. Your post is “all about Paul” with no other witnesses to back him up in the Scripture, and your opinions based on the prevailing Evangelical tradition that we are a part of.
Just as you did, carefully explaining the Trinity, I’ve carefully laid out the words of Jesus [Matthew 22:36-40, Deuteronomy 6:5, Leviticus 19:18]. But it appears you have completely ignored what I wrote.
Your opinion accurately reflects the (often unspoken) views of many, perhaps most, in the Evangelical church today. But, 400 years ago the entire church establishment put Galileo under house arrest for 10 YEARS on “suspicion of heresy” because Galileo was teaching that the earth is not the center of the universe.
Galileo said that the sun was the center of the solar system and the earth revolved around the sun. The established church tradition 400 years ago was wrong on that point.
Your post here, and your thinking, and the thinking of most Evangelicals today, revolves around Paul. Why don’t you interact with the words of Jesus about literally what is most important?
[Matthew 22:36-40] instead of quoting Paul? Did Jesus say here that “all Scripture is equal” or did He make clear just the opposite?
I am telling you: everything should revolve around
THE SON,
The Lord God Jesus the Jewish Messiah, Son of Yahweh.
Jesus was of the bloodline of Abraham, Isaac and jacob, which means he was an israelite….. He was not a jew… He was a Christian,,
Christian,, Remember He was baptised in the water and the holy ghost spirit…as are real Christians likewise..
Jew is not a nationality or bloodline, it is a member of a religion…
Synagogue of satan is comprised of those who say they are jews but are not….These ae those who say they worship the God of Abraham and folllow old covenant laws and ordinances…But they are worsinpping lucifer as the god of Abraham. hence synagogue of satan….aka allah..
dmcal, these paul haters have been told many times.. I think they know they are lying and doing it deliberately to lead People away from the New Testament and God…They are earning hell…
These Paul worshipers have been told many times… I think they know they are lying and are doing it deliberately to lead people away from the real Lord God Jesus the Son of God, away from God the Father, and away from God the Holy Spirit, revealed in both the Old Testament and the New Testament.
For those who do not believe in the trinity and three separate individuals of the God head but one Spirit read 1 John 5:7 ” For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.” We know that from John 1 and Revelations 19:13 that the Word is Jesus.
If you can not accept the trinity then I would suggest you lack spiritual
discernment.
Most of religions of the world do not accept the trinity and only believe in one god. Islam is the best example of this belief and they normally cut the Christians head off if they do not renounce Jesus.
Islam is the coming world religion, it is the anti christs’ religion, the religion of the liberal left.
According to the Bible it will rule the whole world (Rev 13:7). So, for those who deny the trinity then you will in all possibility keep your head, but the consequences of eternity not so sweet, drink gallons of water, although it will not help!
God bless the spiritual discerners.
In the beginning (Genesis 1-1) was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Genesis 1-26, 27…LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE.And so God created man in his own image….
The other image of Gen 1-26 was coming soon…
This is the other image…..Adam sinned and God said “Behold the man has become as one of us,”…Adam became like Satan…
It is very simple to understand ….Adam had the sprit of truth within him…He lost this spirit of truth when Satan fed him lies…. Consequently Adam lost God’s sprit of truth and became like Satan in understanding what is good and what is evil….Precisely why we must be born again of the spirit..
Deut 6-4…Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
Isaiah 43-10..Before me there was no God FORMED.. FORMED means made flesh…
Jesus said, He that has seen me has seen the father…
Jesus said the day comes when I will not longer say to you, “Pray the father’.
John 16- 25, 26… .These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in PROVERBS I shall shew you plainly of the Father. V. 26..At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:…
God told Moses, “tell them I AM has sent you.”
Jesus said “before Abraham was I AM..”
It is not ONENESS believers that have separated the Godhead…It is the ones who believe god is three persons in one…Satan must surely love it that some believe in three persons, aka three gods…Isn’t that like Romans 1-23..And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Bear in mind… Jesus said he spoke in .proverbs…and then He showed them the father… And they said…His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb.
When Adam believed the lies of the serpent he lost god’s spirit and the father son relationship..
Face it God had to become a man to show us the way back to the father son relationship Adam lost for all…This is why God said “Thou art my beloved son in whom I am well pleased..”…This was to show us the baptism of water and sprit restores the spirit of god which restores the father son relation ship./..Jesus knew he was son of god from birth… Plus He was sinless.. His baptism was example set forth for us…
Ruth,
You are very good at twisting words. So, let me clarify this for you. It is One God made up of three persons, not three God’s, for I never have said that. You have still failed to answer the question: For example, If the Word was with God, and the Word was God and the same was in the beginning with God, the verse is speaking of the Word (Jesus) being with someone else. How can Jesus sit at the right hand of the Father if Jesus is the Father? Please don’t ramble on about anything else until you have answered these questions, because you are good at skipping the issue as well. Even in your post up above, you prove that Scripture shows that God is made up of more than one person, for you wrote:
“LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE”
Notice the words “US” and “OUR.” If you are just one being, one personality, then you are not going to use “us” and “our,” for those words infer more than one person. I don’t know why you and others have a problem with this. If I’m running a relay race, I have run up an take the baton out of the hand of the person who is ahead of me, which includes two people, me and the guy I’m taking the baton from. In Revelation, Jesus walks up and takes the seven sealed Scroll out of the right hand of the Father who is seated on the throne. You can’t tell me that there are not two persons spoken of there. The phrase, “The Lord our God, is One God,” means that the other persons of the that Godhead are the same God, but individual persons. The only conclusion that you can come to is one, God the Father alone is God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit are not part of God or that the Lord our God is One God made up of three persons, so which is it? We know that Jesus is God, because he is called that in Scripture over and over. The Jews wanted to stone him a couple of times because he claimed to be God. Why do you resist the obvious?!
Maybe the Lord wrote the Bible in such a manner as to seperate the tares and the wheat… This could be Hhi way of binding some in bundles to be delivered to the fire soon
Matthew 3-11, 12…John spoke of the baptism of Holy Ghost anf fire…Some say this is one baptism…It is not..It is two baptisms… Verse 12 shows the chaff will be burned with unquinchable fire…The unquinchable fire baptism is most certainly the counterfeit of holy ghost baptism..whereby men are transformed into sons of perdition…
Dear bro. 52 – I do not have to duck any questions from the Word. I could sit here and write for hours but the Post would be so long that no one would read it.
You said to me — I have provided ample proof of this and still you don’t understand. My point about Jesus saying, “My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?” shows that Jesus was speaking to someone else, that being, God the Father. answer —YES He was speaking to the CELESTIAL GOD WITH IN HIM – God actually lives in a FLESH BODY.
I hope you are listing to your heart not your head. When you read this.
You got to hear the Real truth before you can even compare anything together for a Real Revelation.
Who was Jesus Talking to —– If you understood that GOD dwells in man then you would understand who Jesus was talking to in the Garden before the Cross. He was connecting to GOD that was on the INSIDE of HIM. The Flesh has to do that to OVERCOME SUFFERING and all temptations. On the Cross He had to feel alone and cursed – and rejected, and despised by ALL. God had to Experience the HUMAN Flesh for HIM SELF.
Would you appreciate a God that made you and then left you hopeless and undone. Would God get anyone else lesser than Himself to fulfill the “Plan of Salvation” NO – God knows ALL things. Or He is not God – Jesus Had All of God behind that Veil of Flesh IN HIM. He was the 2nd Adam – from HEAVEN not Earth. Jesus Was the GOD/MAN. God laid out the WHOLE UNIVERSE and most believers cannot believe God can create Himself a Body to LIVE IN. Think about it. That is why most today KNOW nothing about a NEW CREATION – they just preach “does and don’ts etc. Still under the law.
What would you do Dear Brother in this Case. If you think GOD dwells in you then you would be Crying to GOD for help, Ease the Pain – Get through these Birth Pains I am suffering .
I say this with Love not a hateful Spirit – If you knew that God is a Celestial Being and lives IN YOU – Then who do you pray to. NOT YOURSELF =the flesh – But you pray to that INNER MAN The real you. That is GOD IN YOU> The WORD/MAN lives IN YOU.
Most of Christendom does not understands COL. 1:27. Which says that the New Birth is a “MYSTERY CHRIST IN YOU” . It is still a mystery today. What does that mean to you dear saint. If Christ is not in your flesh Body then you are not the “Temple that GOD dwells in”. 1 Jn. 4:3. Jesus was the First of the Creation of GOD. We are the Next because of what He done for us. We also died on the Cross with HIM. So God dwells in us. God become a ‘Little lesser than the Angels” Yet those Angels never left Jesus Christ. PRAISE GOD – Those Angels saw their God creat a body and then step into it. And they marveled. HOLY HOLY HOLY and guarded and Praised Him day and night. Jesus said I could call 10 thousand Angels if he wanted to. Sounds like God to me. God did not die but the Veil of Flesh had to die so the Way into the Holiest of Holies was forever free for Mankind to walk right up to God – NO HIGH PRIEST. We are Called Priest. Amen.
God created Himself a SON = a fleshman to DWELL IN – When the Son finished the Work of the Kinsmen redeemer then He the Son went back to the Father =and became Spirit again. Jesus said I COME FROM GOD and I GO BACK TO GOD. The Lamb is symbolic of the Work that Christ did on the Cross preparing you to become Gods Temple.
Man limit’s God with thier unbelief and so does most of the church today.
The Lamb of God = Jesus Christ = Kinsman redeemer – Almighty God – Son of David, Son of God, Prince of Peace, My Healer, My peace, My power , Eternal life is all the above and much more because HE LIVES IN ME __ NOW — not in the future.
Solomon a very Wise man said – show me a Spiritual Man -He said I looked and looked and could only find ONE in a thousand. That is so true. It also says when you got just One that will believe you can chase 10 thousand enemies away. ONE against 10 thousand. Are we preparing to do this in near future or relent.
There is a Lighthouse on the shores of Time – That Overlooks all of mankind. That Light is crying come to me and I will give you rest which starts with Love and understanding. When you married so long to somebody you ought to get to know them just like yourself. Amen
RIGHT ON LIGHTHOUSE
Lighthouse,
You said:
“Who was Jesus Talking to —– If you understood that GOD dwells in man then you would understand who Jesus was talking to in the Garden before the Cross. He was connecting to GOD that was on the INSIDE of HIM. ”
Rebut:
No he wasn’t! He was speaking to God the Father who was in heaven. Just in the same way that Jesus said, “Father glorify yourself,” and God the Father replied, “I have glorified myself and will glorify myself again” and those around him heard the voice. Jesus spoke and the Father replied, two persons. Unless you think that Jesus was talking to himself. I really don’t have to and don’t want debate this and that because it is too obvious from Scripture that God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are not just one individual. You can attempt to try and come across as scholarly or as a theologian, but I have Scripture showing two persons speaking to each other in different locations. I also have Scripture showing me that one of the persons is physically interacting with the other, both being God. Jesus cannot be the Father, because Jesus is sitting at the right hand of the Father. This is really getting ridiculous trying to explain the obvious to you. So, is Jesus sitting at his own right hand? Is Jesus sitting on the throne and taking the seven sealed scroll out of his own hand? I could go on and on with stuff. When James and John asked to sit one on his right and one on his left, Jesus said that it wasn’t for him to grant those places, but it was for those whom God had prepared it for. If Jesus is the Father, then his reply would make no sense, because according to you, Jesus is the Father.
Whenever Jesus speaks of the Father, he speaks of him as another person and not of himself. Jesus dwells in the Father and the Father in Jesus, but they are also individual persons of the Godhead. Ugh!
Dcmal..I don;t want to confuse you but those seven sealed scrolls Jesus takes out of the hand of the one sitting on the throne…I think this is connected to Rev 10…the angel that looks like Jesus and has a little book in his hand…Rev 10-4..And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not. I do not know if these scrolls are related to those in Rev 5 or not…..
I do think this angel is Satan and his little Koran gospel.. He is walking about as a roaring lion…V.3…. He also encompasses land and sea to make one proselyte and when they are made they are two fold children of hell..See v. 4 and Matthew 23-15..
When John eats this book it is sweet like honey in hs mouth- means it appears to be god’s Word.. But it is bitter in his belly cause it is of Satan and it causes one to become demonized..
There is a lt more to this but not now…
The real truth is. we are all still like satan in uderstanding good and evil and that is why we can not understand the real truths of Scripture till the Lord reveal it to us..It take a loooooooong time to put on the mind of Christ…
For God’s sake Matthew, Jesus BREATHED on the diciples and said RECEIVE YOU THE HOLY GHOST..And I promise you He revealed scriptures in like manner…
2 Timothy 3-16..All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Hebrew root word for inspiration means
to breathe, to blow
of the wind..
.
IF you Matthew had received the holy ghost(god breathed) you might understand the Bible..
…
You are a deceiver and God is allowimg men like you so the entire truth about moses curse, etc, Islam’s likewise old covenant doctrines, will be made known.. Just remember those that go backward go into perdition..
Dear Allan Rowley and all – You and the Pope would get along real good my brother. What happens is people will not listen when somebody does have the real truth cause we have heard so many lies by False Prophets.
There are 3 main manifestations for Gods “Plan of Salvation”
#-1. IT TOOK A FATHER to Create all things in the universe. By the WORD.
Then He created Mankind in His own Image – and He Knew mankind would fall. — But GOD had a PLAN before He ever started creating.
4,000 years went by Then God Promise of a Messiah come to past in Jesus Christ which was God become a Man to redeem HIS People – God himself was the ONLY WAY to get HIS CREATION out of the pawnshop of sin.
#-2. IT TOOK A SON -This plan included God Himself – Becoming a Son in Jesus Christ =God in Human flesh so He could die and rise again and by His blood set us free from satan’s pawn shop that Adam caused.
All of Gods creation went into satan’s pawnshop with a new owner =satan.
But Jesus Christ was the 2nd. Adam from ABOVE. Being God in Flesh. And REDEEMED MANKIND back out of satan’s pawn shop by paying the price on the Cross with his Body and Blood bringing mankind Back to Fellowship with His God through the Holy Spirit Baptism.
Jesus Message lasted about
3-1/2 years – When Christ died and shed His Blood and Rose again that fulfilled Gods demand. Sin was in the Life’s blood. Now we have the Blood of GOD it says literally that was in Jesus Christ – look it up if you desire.
#-3. IT TOOK THE HOLY SPIRIT – to complete mankinds fall and make HIM righteous and Holy. To Bring Gods people back from the Pawn shop to the IMAGE of their Creator God by becoming SON’s by the HOLY SPIRIT. Without the HOLY SPIRIT it is IMPOSSIBLE to to be HOLY.
That is the 3 steps of the Plan of salvation.
That is the 3 manifestations of the the ONE GOD in different dispensations of time to bring it to PASS in us.
That is the 3 Attributes of the ONE GOD manifesting Himself in Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. NOT 3 persons of GOD – BUT 3 ATTRIBUTES, OF ONE PERSON
Person is a abreviation of the Word Personality. The Father – the Word – and the Holy Spirit all are ONE personality as well just in different forms – 1 John 5:7 says it so plainly and simple.
God is a Spirit – Jesus had the Spirit in Full measure and GOD become a little less than GOD because HE was in a HUMAN BODY NOW. But it had to be so or mankind could never receive the Gift of the HOLY SPIRIT which was Salvation is ALL ABOUT —-
REV 5:2-8 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
3. And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
4. And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
5. And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
6. ¶ And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
7. And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
8. And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
Jesus opened the Sealed Book of salvation – Which is the Book of Redemption. For all of mankind.
And most all of Christendom think that the Seals are the Anti-christ. You got it backwards. When you know Jesus Christ and HIS redemption plan. You will also see the Anti-christ very clearly. If you are a anti-christ you will never see the light of the truth.
The Lighthouse is shining for you to know this. Look into the light of Jesus Christ.
Praise God 1313 — Thanks brother.
Dmcal….I have not always understood the truths about Father, Son and Holy Ghost… I just took it by faith until the Lord showed me what these things mean..
God had no helper in the creation of mankind……Genesis 2-7…And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
God foreknew that though He had created Adam in his image..genesis 1-26 Adam would fall and become like the one who taught him his version of good and evil.. Aka the serpent………….
AFTER SIN God said…”””Behold the man has become as ONE OF US in knowing good and evil…”””Now I ask you who taught him good and evil????Was it not the serpent with his good and evil tree????.Adam became like the serpent who taught him his version of good and evil..
Adam was already in the likeness and image of God and Adam was a Son of God… How say you or anyone Adam became like one of the godhead…after He believed the serpents lies…..
If Adam never lost the image of God what need have we of being born again or baptized for sin…>
As for the word being with God in the beginning… He was…He was God’s voice….Is not your voice you????…Now please do not bring up god’s voice at Jesus baptism.. Just remember God is omnipresent, He can indwell flesh and speak at the same time all over the world if need be.
As for the one on the throne in Rev 4 and 5 I am not convinced this entity is God…it is a vision of one sitting on the throne in heaven., and Lucifer promised to do likewise in Isaiah 14-12 through 16..I need more revelation on that before I can determine it…..Plus the 24 elders cast down their crowns when Jesus said positively do not cast down your crown…As for Jesus deciphering the book…Yes Jesus could decipher any book …. He has even enlightened many today to understand all the evil of Islam’s doctrines.. Beginning with their god of Abraham.. In a pigs eye he is…Did not Lucifer say he would be as god..and would exalt his throne above the stars of god which are Christians and Israelites..And there is scripture always to prove what I say..
Incidentally Genesis 1-26 is most definitely a sealed mystery…There is more to this mystery than I have stated.. I received these answers many years ago…This verse is crucial in understanding other verses…
For instance Genesis 3-15… THE SEED OF THE WOMAN AND THE SEED OF THE SERPENT…The seed of the woman are those Christ indwells aka the image of God.. And the seed of the serpent are those Satan indwells, aka the image of atan…Hence LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE…..
Incidentally Genesis 1-26 continues till the last hour of time… Remember we are recreated in the likeness of God, aka Holy Ghost -Jesus indwells us.. Satan does likewise with his kingdom….He comes as a messiah with a gospel,, aka Mohammed and Koran… Those that follow this doctrine are transformed by the very lies they are taught..They lose all truth and become indwelled by Satan via the lies they believe same as Adam and Eve did..There is scripture to prove all of these things..
I hope this answers your questions…
Lighthouse,
Read your own words:
” And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.”
Who is Jesus taking the book from, himself or God the Father? If you say God the Father, then we have two persons, for Jesus is not sitting on the throne and also taking the book out of his own hand. This clearly shows that the Father, who is God, is sitting on the throne and the Lamb (Jesus) is taking the book from the Father’s right hand, showing that there are two distinct persons here.
You said:
“Jesus opened the Sealed Book of salvation – Which is the Book of Redemption. For all of mankind.”
This seven sealed book is not of salvation, but is what is described at the opening of Revelation, which is the revelation of Jesus Christ whom God the Father gave him to show his servants the things that must soon take place. The things that must soon take place are the wrath of God represented by the seals, trumpet and bowl judgments. This wrath and judgment will be in fulfillment of the day of the Lord, which Isaiah prophesied of saying,
“I will make man more scarce than pure gold, more rare than the gold of Ophir.”
The purpose of these plagues is to pour out God’s wrath and through them to get people to repent and glorify God and to bring in the end of the age. This is the time period where the Rock that was cut out of the mountain without human hands falls on the feet of the statue and it smashes to pieces on the threshing floor and is blown away by the summer wind never to be found again (The end of human government). Then the Rock fills the entire earth (Jesus millennial kingdom). Daniel 2
this argument seems to be going in circles….. 🙂
if someone does not get it the first time, or the second, why tell them the third time?
dcmal..Let me show you whiyI have doubts about the identity of the entity in Rev 4 and 5..
It is truly sad that Satan is such a good counterfeiter we cannot tell God from Satan not can we determine truth from falsehood in doctrines..
Lucifer says he will exalt his throne in the heavens…That he will be like God…
The elders cast down their crowns despite the fact Jesus said to not cast down your crown…
The thrunderings likened to the seven thunders in Rev 10…
The seven lamps of fire which means seven salvations of God…God’s salvation is like a burning lamp.
The seven spirits..of God…..???Satan has seven spirit..Matthew 12-43,44,45.
The book sealed with seven seals. And Rev 10-4..
It is possible Jesus and the seven eyes- spirit is in reference to the seven churches of Rev..
The angel in rev. 10 has the little book opened..This angel looks like the returned Jesus face as the sun..He roars as a lion as does Satan and he is encompassing land and sea…See Matthew 23-15..
He is accompanied by seven thunders… Satan also has seven buddies that accompany him…
The book is opened and evidently John understands it and is commanded to seal it
This angel declares the end of time, yet Jesus said no man, , not the angels know when time ends..
He also promises the revelation of a mystery when the seventh angel sounds…Bear in mind this is one of the woes…
The book appears to be God’s words, sweet as honey in his mouth…
But the book makes his belly bitter… it will cause Satan to enter those that read it..and believe it….
John is commanded to prophecy of this sweet bitter book of anti Christ..
These are must my thoughts on these things.. I am not 100% certain of the meanings yet.
Dear Marianne – PHILIPPIANS 3:1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the SAME THING S TO YOU, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.
3:2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship GOD IN THE SPIRIT, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
After many years mankind and Christians gets settled on a mindset that cannot HARDLY be intruded on till they hear it over and over again. It is like re-programming a Mind. ROM 12:1-3 We have to TRANSFSORM THE MIND. Which takes alot of time. That is why I say alot of the same things over. Because I have to, because people just keep talking about the same things wherever you go.I did not get this Message in a year or two myself. But I sought it with everything I had and the Lord told me to Preach a NOW message 12 years ago. I trying to do that the best I can. It is really a Spiritual awakening.
Their is a Lighthouse that if we will enter. Will take you Over across the troubled sea and into a clear calm glassy sea that is around the Throne along with the Rainbow. That sea is clear as crystal.
Hope all things went well with you whatever is troubling you as well.
I understand the viewpoints, and actually have my own, but I am remaining neutral, to allow discussion. I just hope people realize that they are either making their point or they are not making it.
I also see different levels of meaning and interpretation where more than one opposing viewpoint can be correct.
I hope this debate stays on an even keel during this blessed time where we remember his birth into this world.
I wish you all peace and love…and for me, some healing which will take a few weeks.
Marianne
I see you are implementing some wisdom from Proverbs:
“A gentle answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.”
[Proverbs 15:1]
May you be blessed and healed quickly, for the glory of Jesus !
merry christmas!
Matthew Perri
Since you talk bad words about Shaul and say Torah is the only way. Our Church have contact with Yehoshua and he says that thoose who have not accepted Shaul and are not baptized in his Church are not allowed to break the laws os Sabbath. If you use a computer or Internet during Sabbath then you are turning a light (fire) on and off and you are breaking the Sabbath rules and my law says I shall kill you. If I see a post here from you then I must buy a ticket to USA and kill you. Either you accept Shaul or you Obey the Torah. I am sick of reading your words about Paul now.
Dear Ibible,
The Lord bless you and keep you.
Jesus is the only way.
So the testimony of Jesus in the Bible, (primarily in the 4 Gospels) is above Shaul/Paul and his letters, (and above the Torah of Moses and the Prophets, although He is the fulfillment of them and in agreement with them.)
You must not have read much of my writings. I accept Jesus and I obey Jesus. And I accept that God used certain men to write things that are contained in the “Scripture” – such as Solomon and Shaul/Paul – which are less authoritative than the words and actions of Jesus.
I listen to Jesus first, follow Jesus first, obey Jesus first- not Shaul/Paul. I hope you will choose to follow Jesus first too.
Matthew and Ibible,
Matthew said:
“I listen to Jesus first, follow Jesus first, obey Jesus first- not Shaul/Paul. I hope you will choose to follow Jesus first too.”
This is what Matthew and others are not understanding. Reading and adhering to what Paul or any of the apostles have written, is listening and following Jesus and that because what Paul and the other apostles wrote are the words of the Lord. None of the books that make up the bible were written by man’s own interpretation, but they wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.
My advice to you ibible is to not listen to anything that Matthew is claiming. For the facts are that, Paul’s writings have been and are apart of the Holy Scriptures and the only reason for believing what Matthew is claiming is based on, because Matthew said so. Basically, you have a decision to believe that this collection of books that we call the bible are from God (including Paul’s) or you can believe in Matthew, because there is nothing in Scripture that would support his claim regarding Paul and his writings.
Dear dm52
You said below:
” And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.” Who is Jesus taking the book from, himself or God the Father? If you say God the Father, then we have two persons, for Jesus is not sitting on the throne and also taking the book out –
answer: the right hand is the Hand of Power, Authority, Honor etc etc.
The Power comes the the Book being opened to mankind. God is a symbolic figure here. As He is a Spirit – His Spirit is all over the World and in the Heavens and on out past the heavens. Every time you take a breath it God’s live coming into you. Jesus compared God to Wind, Air, etc.
You think like most that the Sealed book is about Satan or Satan doing destruction to mankind. But the Greatest News of all time is written in that Book. It is the Bible – The Mystery of God and His salvation – The Book of Redemption. After the Fall of Mankind. God had to Open your sealed book to get you out of the fall and back to God in Character and Image by eating the Tree of life. The Tree of life is the Bible, It is the Holy Spirit. The Bible says so. So in the Seals you have the first 4 that leds to where. To Death, Hell and the Grave. That is where all of mankind were bound to until GOD could fulfiill HIS plan of Salvation.
That is why all the elders in Rev. 5 were Crying and wailing and seeking a “Redeemer” but NO MAN was worthy to open the Book the Seals. That’s where all of us were going. Yes and with great tribulation in life because we were ALL LOST – And the Tree of life was forbidden unto CHRIST CAME AND DIED AND SHED HIS BLOOD TO OPEN THE DOORWAY TO THE HOLY SPIRIT. Which is the Holiest of Holies where PRIEST COULD ONLY ENTER. By Adam #1 – Animal sacrifice was a substitute till the GOD/LAMB came to Open up our closed book. The Bible says we are a BOOK.
The Book of Redemption is our way out of the 1st 4 seals and we can get victory over it now. Because we can become Sons and Daughters of God. Meaning we have God living in us now. That is the Gospel message.
Jesus the GOD/MAN – THE SYMBOLIC LAMB —– opened the Sealed Book of salvation – Which is the Book of Redemption. For all of mankind.”
This set free all of the O.T saints and N.T saints. I hope you understand me dear Brother. I’m trying to help you. Not discourage you.
Let me ask you a good question now. Not trying to trick you or to say bad things about anybody. Just the Truth and let your mind and heart work together.
The TREE OF LIFE – Is it symbolic or did you See it literally when you bowed down on the floor or said your confession to it.
The HIDDEN MANNA – Do you eat it literally or is it symbolic to Heavenly Food.
The WHITE STONE WRITTEN. Of you new Birth on Record. Can you literally walk around with that white stone in your pocket.
We Have a ROD OF IRON – is that literal or symbolic of the Word of God to rule our Nation with. = your life and wife and children etc etc.
When Jesus gave you the Morning star – did you see it literally – or is it symbolic of Jesus Christ the bright and morning star.
WHEN YOUR NAME WAS NOT BLOTTED OUT. Did you see it literally was blotted out before Christ put you NAME on the Book = The Book is the One Jesus the Lamb of God opened up for all of us.
ONE MORE –
REVELATION 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
Oh my do I want to shout for joy. Im a Pillar that God dwells in NOW. I am the tabernacle and or the Temple that God dwells in NOW.
I do not see none of it. Just like you do not see none of it literally.
BUT WE SEE IT BY FAITH’S SPIRITUAL EYES. SPIRITUAL EYES SEEN EVERYONE OF THOSE BLESSING THAT ARE IN THE CHURCH AGES ARE FOR ME NOW CAUSE I NEED THEM NOW —- NOT OUT IN THE FUTURE.
The Lighthouse speaks of a Spiritual Kingdom of God and is OURS now to live in if people could only discern the Spiritual from the Flesh.
The Problem is even Christians cannot see past their own flesh to see the Spiritual things that have already happened to them in this last age. Im not saying this to put no body down. I could not see either but I could sense it for years something was wrong with most of Christianities natural interpretations of Spiritual things. The Jews could not get past the Flesh body of Jesus to even start to see how Spiritual He really was. He confused them. made them mad and yet HE was the WORD manifesting in the Kinsmen redeemer. No man speak like this man. They said it.
Lighthouse,
These things in revelation are gong to literally take place in heaven and on the earth. The Lamb (Jesus) is literally going to take the seven scroll out of the right of the Father who is sitting on the throne. The seals, trumpets and bowl judgments are the fulfillment of the day of the Lord that was prophesied of old. These judgments will take place just as they are written and the population of the earth will be decimated because of it. As Scripture states, this is the Rock cut out of the mountain without human hands falling on the feet of the Statue.
You said:
“You think like most that the Sealed book is about Satan or Satan doing destruction to mankind.”
The seven sealed scroll contains the wrath of God meted out by the seven seals, seven trumpets and seven bowl judgments. Satan is definitely involved during that last seven years and will give his power, seat and authority to that angel that comes up out of the Abyss who is called destroyer, who is that beast.
You said:
“The Book of Redemption is our way out of the 1st 4 seals and we can get victory over it now.”
True believers will be not even be here when the first seal is opened, for the dead in Christ will have already been resurrected and the living caught up with them.
You said:
“The Tree of life is the Bible,”
The tree of life is a literal tree that was in the garden of Eden and will also be found in the New Jerusalem, which will be on the new earth.
You said:
“That is why all the elders in Rev. 5 were Crying and wailing ”
Those under the altar at the opening of the 5th seal are crying out for vengeance upon those on the earth who spilled their blood and they knew who there savior is, so weren’t crying for one.
You said:
“The HIDDEN MANNA – Do you eat it literally or is it symbolic to Heavenly Food.”
There is not much said regarding this hidden Manna, but I would have to say that it seems to be symbolic. Jesus told the Jews that he was the manna that came down from heaven. The overcomers will see when they get there.
You said:
“The WHITE STONE WRITTEN. Of you new Birth on Record. Can you literally walk around with that white stone in your pocket.”
There is no information within Revelation that would bring one to the assumption that the white stone with our new name written on it is a birth record, this conjecture on your part. I believe that it will be just exactly as the Lord says, a white stone with a new name on it known only to the one who receives it. The name will obviously be one that the Lord has chosen for the overcomer.
You said:
“We Have a ROD OF IRON”
The rod of iron is symbolic of how the Lord will rule over the nations during the millennium, that is with power, authority and sovereignty.
You said:
“When Jesus gave you the Morning star ”
The verse says, “I will also give him that overcomes the morning star.”
In Rev.22:16 Jesus said,
““I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”
Jesus refers to himself as the bright morning star and therefore, our receiving of the morning star may be in regards to himself.
You said:
“WHEN YOUR NAME WAS NOT BLOTTED OUT. Did you see it literally was blotted out before Christ put you NAME on the Book = The Book is the One Jesus the Lamb of God opened up for all of us.”
Scripture states that the names of those whom God chose, their names were written in the book of life before the world began and there were names that were not written. Jesus’ reference to “I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life” is a promise to the overcomer, also showing that he has the power and authority to blot the names out of those who do not overcome.
You said:
“REVELATION 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: ”
This is obviously symbolic and does not mean that the person is going to be a literal pillar and not be able to leave the temple. For then it would be impossible for the verse that follows it to be fulfilled, which says:
“‘he will lead them to springs of living water”
The inference most likely should read:
“and he who sits on the throne will shelter them with his presence”
You said:
“BUT WE SEE IT BY FAITH’S SPIRITUAL EYES. SPIRITUAL EYES SEEN EVERYONE OF THOSE BLESSING THAT ARE IN THE CHURCH AGES ARE FOR ME NOW CAUSE I NEED THEM NOW —- NOT OUT IN THE FUTURE. ”
The day of the Lord, which all the prophets spoke of and all that is written in the book of Revelation and other books is soon to come. Those seals, trumpets and bowl judgments are literally going to take place and God is going to make man more scarce than pure gold, more rare than the gold of Ophir. That Rock is about to fall on the feet of the statue, which represents human government and they are going to be smashed to pieces. Then the rock that struck the statue will become a huge mountain and fill the whole earth, which represents Christ’s millennial kingdom.
A good rule of thumb when reading Scripture is that, if the literal sense makes good sense, then don’t seek any other sense. One of the major problems we have today are people who symbolize what is meant to be taken literally and vice versa. And when they do recognize Scripture as symbolic, they use their own symbolism or someone else’s, instead of the one that God supplies within his word.
As far as I’m concerned, I study the word of God and I have the Holy Spirit dwelling within me and so I get my understand from him, not my flesh, as you say. It’s funny how when someone has a view contrary to another regarding Scripture, there are always those people who make reference to them as not having the Spirit, or not eating solid food, as though their interpretation of Scripture was of their own doing.
You said:
“The Jews could not get past the Flesh body of Jesus to even start to see how Spiritual He really was.”
The Jews did not believe in him because of the following prophesy against them which Jesus quoted from Isaiah 6:10 :
“He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. This is why I speak to them in parables:
“Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.
In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:
“ ‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.’
As Scripture states, the Jews are experiencing a temporary hardening of the heart until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in.
Matthew 22-
41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David.
43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
44 The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.
Speaking of sitting on the right hand…
Matthew 2021 And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom.22 But Jesus answered and said, Ye know not what ye ask. Are ye able to drink of the cup that I shall drink of, and to be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They say unto him, We are able.23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared of my Father.
It is the sheep and the goats who sit on the rith side and the left side of Jesus..
Matthew 25-34- 34..When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. …
Good comments M, we have made our points on the Trinity and people can make up their minds what is Biblical truth or ask the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth.
Not sure If I follow what you say Lighthouse regarding changing a persons mind or character. Only the Holy Spirit can change someone from a sin life to a Holy Life. I have watched people try and change themselves, best time was 3 weeks then they became more evil then they were.
When someone is full of the Holy Spirit they will hate sin and you will find they can not stop talking of Jesus to the annoyance of non believers.
When Jesus took on the sin of the world the Father turned away from Jesus, that was Jesus’ loneliest time ever. God and sin can not abide together, something liberals hate to hear.
God bless you all.
Thanks for the post 1313 and Allan – I would only have this to say Bro. Allen. The Word is Spirit – St. John 6:33 – This is the Only way to get the understanding by the Spirit – Is through His Word. The Word is LIFE – It is God the the Holy Spirit speaking to us directly and that is why the Word results in FAITH a Revelation by the Spirit. Faith that worketh by Love.
Merry Christmas to you Marianne and to all on this forum.
The other post was too narrow, so here it is again:
To Matthew,
Romans:
“Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God–”
1 Cor.
“Paul, called to be an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God,”
2 Cor.
“Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God,
Galatians:
“Paul, an apostle–sent not from men nor by a man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead–”
Ephesians:
“Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God,”
Phil.
“Paul and Timothy, servants of Christ Jesus, ”
Col.
“Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, ”
1 Tim.
“Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the command of God our Savior and of Christ Jesus our hope,”
2 Tim.
“Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, ”
Titus:
“Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ to further the faith of God’s elect and their knowledge of the truth that leads to godliness–”
Philemon:
“Paul, a prisoner of Christ Jesus,”
From the looks of things, I would have to believe the Scripture’s over you and say that Paul was very qualified and called by God the Father and Jesus Christ who appointed him to be an apostle. Who are you or anyone to critique and slander the Lord’s appointed?
Regarding Paul:
“Whatever anyone else dares to boast about—I am speaking as a fool—I also dare to boast about. Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they Abraham’s descendants? So am I. Are they servants of Christ? (I am out of my mind to talk like this.) I am more. I have worked much harder, been in prison more frequently, been flogged more severely, and been exposed to death again and again. Five times I received from the Jews the forty lashes minus one. Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was pelted with stones, three times I was shipwrecked, I spent a night and a day in the open sea, I have been constantly on the move. I have been in danger from rivers, in danger from bandits, in danger from my fellow Jews, in danger from Gentiles; in danger in the city, in danger in the country, in danger at sea; and in danger from false believers. I have labored and toiled and have often gone without sleep; I have known hunger and thirst and have often gone without food; I have been cold and naked. Besides everything else, I face daily the pressure of my concern for all the churches.
This is the man that you are rejecting and slandering as not being qualified as an apostle? I would pray to God that I could even be worthy to perform even a small fraction of what Paul accomplished and went through for keeping the testimony of Jesus and for the furtherance of the gospel. If you are disagreeing with the introductions of Paul’s claim from the letters above, then you are disagreeing with God the Father and Jesus Christ.
Neither you nor I nor anyone has any place judging Paul’s work in God the Father and Jesus Christ!
For your sake I say, Repent!
AMEN DMCAL 2
matthew
if the other apostles accepted Paul, and jesus was evident in his life and accepted him, why cannot you?
as I said before, you are obsessed about this and wont quit. there is a difference between debate and strife.
this page is about grieving the holy spirit…..please re – read it, or read it for the first time, and think about it.
Marianne
Jesus and the Original Apostles never accepted Paul as an “apostle.” They are all in agreement that that there are only 12 Apostles, and the 12th is Matthias. The New Testament text is really not that long, and this is simply a fact about what is actually in the text, and what is not. No one except Paul himself ever said that Paul was appointed an apostle, or even referred to Paul individually as an apostle. No one, not even once.
No one in the world had refuted this.
If you believe that Paul appointed an apostle based on the Bible, you believe it for one reason and one reason alone – because Paul said so. That is the reason that Muslims follow Muhammad and his teachings- because he said so. That is idolatry.
Every matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses. There are no exceptions- Jesus didn’t even make an exception for himself. Because two or three witnesses is the character of God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, 3 persons in one. To deny this would grieve the Holy Spirit.
the apostles and jesus never issued a decree that there was a “limit” on who could be an apostle.
the 12 apostles never issued a decree denouncing paul as a false apostle.
Matthew,
You said:
“Jesus and the Original Apostles never accepted Paul as an “apostle.” They are all in agreement that that there are only 12 Apostles,”
Rebut:
“For God, who was at work in Peter as an apostle to the circumcised, was also at work in me as an apostle to the Gentiles. James, Cephas and John, those esteemed as pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me.
Regarding the Scripture above, I’d say that the other apostles did accept Paul and Barnabas as apostles.
Also, I believe that being stopped on the road to Damascus by the Lord himself is sufficient and proof enough of Paul’s calling. As I said, if Paul’s writings were not God-Breathed and he was a false apostle, then God would not have allowed his writings to be included as part of his word. The books that we have that make up the bible are all God-Breathed Scripture and are useful for training, teaching, correcting and rebuking, all of it! Both the men of who wrote the books of the OT and NT did not right of their own accord, but they wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. Who are you or anyone to slice and dice the approved word of God and to slander his appointed apostle. Paul’s letters are and have been apart of Scripture being recognized as such throughout all generations. But here comes Matthew and those with him to set the world straight, saying that we should not include Paul as a true apostle and neither should we consider his letters as Scripture. I’d say the burden of proof is on you, for his writings have been apart of and received as Scripture for nearly 2000 years, except for you and those like you who slander him and his writings.
I say this with all sincerity, you had better think hard about your view on this matter and the fact that you are teaching these lies. This is not some casual subject where if you are wrong, no harm, no foul. What you are believing and teaching is eternal life threatening to you, which is what Peter meant when he said, “They do so to their own destruction.”
The Apostle Matthew records the account of Jesus speaking with the “rich young ruler.” Afterward, “the disciples” were present including Peter, but we can’t say exactly who else was there.
“Jesus said them: I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, YOU WHO HAVE FOLLOWED ME will also sit on TWELVE THRONES, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.’” [Matthew 19:28]
No one can prove that Judas Iscariot was present, and no one can prove that Matthias was absent, when Jesus spoke those words above. And in any case, Judas did not continue to follow Jesus.
At the Last Supper, Luke records the words of Jesus to his disciples:
“’You are those who have stood by me in my trials. And I confer on you a kingdom, just as my Father conferred one on me, so that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom and sit on THRONES, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.’” [Luke 22:28-30]
We know that Matthias was absent from the Last Supper, and that Judas Iscariot had stopped following Jesus and therefore lost his place – his throne. Therefore, at the Last Supper, Jesus did not say “twelve thrones”, but rather “thrones”, since the last and final throne, #12, was in limbo until Matthias was appointed.
The Apostle John wrote about the New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven:
“The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the TWELVE APOSTLES of the Lamb.” [Revelation 21:14]
The Apostle John also recorded the words of the Risen Jesus, as he spoke his approval to the church in Ephesus:
“I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked men, that you have tested those who CLAIM TO BE APOSTLES BUT ARE NOT and have found them false. You have persevered and have endured hardships for my name, and have not grown weary.” [Revelation 2:2-3]
In Acts chapter 1, we see the words and actions of the Apostle Peter and the other Original Apostles, who all knew the qualifications for an “Apostle” according to Jesus, and who also knew there were only 12 Apostles according to Jesus. Matthias and another man were qualified, and they prayed to the Lord and let the Lord choose Matthias.
So we can see that Jesus did state clearly that there was a limit on who could be an apostle. And Jesus did speak directly through the Apostle John [Revelation 2:2-3] to the church in Ephesus (which is where Paul had his longest recorded ministry, 2 years and 3 months, not 3 years as Paul falsely claimed.) This applies directly to Paul as a man who “claimed to be an apostle but was not.” Jesus showed gracious restraint in not calling Paul a “false apostle.”
I suggest you rightly divide the word of truth and stop reading things into text that are not there.
jesus never named paul a false apostle.
according to your interpretation, the church ended 2000 years ago, because there has not been anyone worthy to carry on the faith since then.
Matthew and all,
You said:
““I know your deeds, your hard work and your perseverance. I know that you cannot tolerate wicked men, that you have tested those who CLAIM TO BE APOSTLES BUT ARE NOT and have found them false.”
Now I know that you have learned this regarding Paul from other men, because I have run into others with this same teaching. The verse above is not referring to Paul as one of the false apostles being spoken of, as there is nothing in the Scripture that would link Paul to this. Nothing at all! It is based on complete conjecture. There were no requirements for being an apostle, except those whom the Lord chose and for his reasons. There was no prerequisite for being an apostle. It certainly wasn’t based on their righteousness. Peter denied the Lord three times! That certainly wouldn’t qualify as being an apostle. Their being apostles is not based on who they were.
I have news for you, the apostles may have cast lots to see who would replace Judas, but God had already made his choice for the replacement and that was Paul. Furthermore, Although there were twelve original apostles, they weren’t the only ones, as can be seen from the following Scriptures:
“But when the apostles [Barnabas] and Paul heard of this, they tore their clothes and rushed out into the crowd, shouting: “Friends, why are you doing this? We too are only human, like you.” (Acts 14:14)
“Then after three years, I went up to Jerusalem to get acquainted with Cephas and stayed with him fifteen days. I saw none of the other apostles—only [James], the Lord’s brother.” (Gal.1:19)
Now we know for a fact that neither Barnabas nor James (the half brother of Jesus) were counted as part of the original twelve apostles, yet in the Scriptures above they are indeed referred to as apostles.
You said:
“The Apostle John wrote about the New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven: “The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the TWELVE APOSTLES of the Lamb.” [Revelation 21:14]”
I can guarantee you, Paul’s name will be one of those names on the twelve foundations. You can’t get any better qualifications for being an apostle than being called directly by the Lord, as Paul was. Don’t you understand that God knows everything before it happens and that he knew what he was doing when he called Paul?
You said:
“Jesus showed gracious restraint in not calling Paul a “false apostle.”
And so now, will you speak on behalf of the Lord regarding Paul on something that he didn’t say? Are you a mind reader too? As I said, there is nothing regarding the reference to those false apostles that would infer that the Lord was speaking of Paul. It is pure conjecture!
I have already warned you as one who is in Christ, that if you continue with this view of Paul, a true apostle of the Lord, then apply what Peter had to say regarding those who distort the words in his letters and him as an apostle, because if you continue, you do so to your own destruction. That verse that Peter spoke was applied to those of his time who were rejecting Paul and distorting his letters and is valid for anyone else who is doing the same thing today, which is what you are doing. You have no right or authority to slander the apostle whom the Lord chose. If you reject Paul, you reject the Lord. If you reject his letters, which Peter recognized as wisdom from God and Scripture, then you are rejecting the word of God, because what Paul wrote is the word of God.
Either repent of this or apply the following verse to yourself
(2 Pet. 3:15-16).
So many lies I don’t know where to start…
Matthew, did god get confused about false apostles..????
FALSE APOSTLES…of Revelation 2 are the false apostles in
2 Corinthians 11-13,..For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
These false apostles’ messiah is Satan posing as an angel of light.. Aka false messiah..
V.. 14..And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
V.15..Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. ..
These are false apostles of Satan…aka Mohammed..
Verse 3,4 Tells us HE THAT IS COMING brings another Gospel which teaches another Jesus and another spirit of God… This Gospel is the Koran and the other Jesus is Issa and the other spirit is Allah..
Paul also tells the deception of Islam is a deception like Eve’s deception.. ….
Only Satan would label Paul a false apostle..
1 Corinthians 6-2…Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? And if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? V. 3 says we will judge angels…
You implied the church in rev 2 was speaking of Paul which would mean the revelations about those churches were not for the future but for that day… Well bud, Rev 2- .9 speaks of synagogue of Satan….and synagogue of Satan makes it appearance in the last hour of time… Rev. 3-9, 10 proves this…
Revelation is about future events…The false apostles is about Muslims……Some of these churches might be of the chrislam disease…
Rev 1-10… I was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,………those churches are in the Lord’s day not during Paul’s lifetime.Plus .Paul was more than likely dead when John wrote Revelation..
Rev 3-9…Jesus promises to keep the faithful in he hour of temptation….V.9….Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth….The message is to the churches during end times..
This verse is about you Matthew…You are a false brethren trying to bring people into bondage and we in this hour are not giving subjection to you..
Galatians 2-4, 5.. And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: V. 5..To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.
Matthew said:
“dmcal52
You are quoting one witness- Paul – writing about himself many times. But as Jesus reminded us from the Torah, let every matter be established by the testimony of TWO witnesses . Can you provide another witness from Scripture [besides Paul talking about himself] saying that Paul was appointed an apostle?
Rebut:
Matthew, how do you figure that Paul is his only witness? I have already shown that Peter, James and John recognized the grace that God gave to Paul and offered him and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship. Not only that, but Luke was the one who wrote the book of Acts through the Holy Spirit and so he is a witness of Paul’s apostleship as well, for Luke witnessed all of these things. But the best witnesses are God the Father and the Lord Jesus himself who called Paul to be an apostle. Therefore, you are incorrect regarding Paul being his own witness.
You can’t give sight to the blind, heal the paralyzed, drive out demons and raise the dead unless the power of the Lord is with you and Paul did all of those things, as did Peter and the other apostles.
I agree.
dmcal52,
.1) You said, QUOTE:
” I have already shown that Peter, James and John recognized the grace that God gave to Paul and offered him and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship. ”
MY ANSWER:
You are referring to Paul’s personal letter to the Galatians. I am not denying that Paul was a Christian. I am simply stating the fact that no one else ever recognized Paul individually as an apostle. No one in the world has proved me wrong about that.
,2) You said, QUOTE:
“Luke was the one who wrote the book of Acts through the Holy Spirit and so he is a witness of Paul’s apostleship as well, for Luke witnessed all of these things.”
MY ANSWER:
.3) You said, QUOTE:
“the best witnesses are God the Father and the Lord Jesus himself who called Paul to be an apostle.”
MY ANSWER:
Besides Paul writing about himself in his personal letters, why do you believe this? No one else besides Paul ever said that Paul as called or appointed or qualified as an apostle.
Acts chapter 14 is important to consider- in it’s context of Acts 1, 6. 9. 13 & 15, and I put the link to my post explaining those details. Other than that, the bottom line is simple. You believe Paul was appointed The Apostle to the Gentiles simply because Paul said so. You believe that the voice of Paul alone overrides the voices of everyone else, Paul was right, and everyone else was wrong.
You ignore the texts of:
.1) The words and actions of Jesus recorded by the Gospel writers
.2) The written words of the 3 Original Apostles who wrote Scripture (Matthew John Peter)
.3) The words and actions of the Original Apostles recorded by the Gospel writers (Matthew Mark Luke John)
Paul’s Gentile travelling companion Luke making a couple passing editorial comments out of context about “the apostles Barnabas and Paul” in Acts 14 can cause confusion if taken out of context, but in context of the surrounding chapters, the meaning is clear. Outside of Acts chapters 13 & 14, where Luke personally seems to think of the 2 men as temporary “apostles”, Luke’s surrounding text makes it very clear that outside of “The Twelve,” meaning Matthias plus the original 11 Apostles, no one else was ever recognized or appointed as an apostle by anyone. Not Barnabas, not Paul, no one else.
Jesus and the Original Apostles all agree- there are only 12 Apostles, and Matthias is the 12th. Luke never said anything about Paul individually being an apostle, and in Acts 14 Paul is listed second, behind Barnabas. Luke, who was not an apostle, temporarily used the word “apostles” PLURAL loosely out of context but he never used the word “apostle” SINGULAR loosely.
Other than the author of the book of Hebrews (chapter 3) making the unusual reference to “Jesus the apostle” in order to put the focus on Jesus, Paul is the only person in Scripture who used the word “apostle” singular to refer to anyone outside the Original Apostles. And Matthias was individually recognized to take the empty 12th spot, even though there were 2 qualified men. No one ever removed Matthias as Apostle. Paul was never individually recognized as an apostle by anyone except himself.
So the bottom line is, you believe Paul as an “Apostle” because Paul said so. (Like Muslims believe Muhammad was the Prophet because Muhammad said so.) I say no- I listen to Jesus and the Original Apostles. Paul’s writings are part of Scripture, like Ecclesiastes and Proverbs are. But the voice of Paul is not the voice of God, and the words of Paul are not above Jesus and above everyone else. Sometime Paul was wrong. But Jesus is never wrong. I am following the Jesus of the Gospels.
Repeatedly Matthew made reference to Mohammed….He is trying to provide camouflage for Mohammed… The false apostles of 2 Corinthians 11-13,14 are Muslims whose messiah is Mohammed, aka Satan…This is a prophecy of future events.. V. 4.. Says HE THAT COMETH..John 14-30 tells us He that comes after Jesus is the prince of the world… Means Satan in flesh.. ..
The false apostles of Rev 2 is also Muslims.. Remember the book of revelation is about future events, not the past…
Rev 2-2..I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars….
THIS SAYS APOSTLES, PLURAL AND LIARS, PLURAL… THIS VERSE IS NOT ABOUT ONE MAN NAMELY PAUL…IT IS ABOUT MUSLIMS AND SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN..
ISLAM’s doctrines and shariah law is old covenant laws and ordinances and that is exactly what Matthew is trying to teach people… These are the same laws and ordinances that condemned Jesus and caused his death..
Matthew is trying to replace verses about Mohammed and Muslims to Paul….Not only did Paul reveal Islam and Muslims and Mohammed he also had much to say about the old covenant laws and ordinances being cursed..and the replacement with faith and the two love laws..
Matthew is dong a suburb job for Satan
Matthias is mentioned only 2 times in
Scripture….He certainly did not make any waves….Maybe it is because men chose him, not Jesus…
ALL OF THE APOSTLES WERE CHOSEN BY JESUS…
Matthias was CHOSEN BY MEN to replace Judas
Acts 1
23 And they put forward two, Joseph called Barsabbas, who was also called Justus, and Matthias. 24 And they prayed and said, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which one of these two you have chosen 25 to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.” 26 And they cast lots for them, and the lot fell on Matthias, and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.
Paul was CHOSEN BY JESUS ..Acts 9-11 through 15…and his works recorded hundreds of times in scripture
But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
Matthias is mentioned only twice and the ones who numbered him among the apostles were men, not Jesus…
These events appear to have taken place before the day of Pentecost and the infilling of holy ghost, so it is very probable the 11 apostles were mistaken in their choice..
The apostles chose Matthias because …..
Peter quoted Psalms in Acts 1-20…..For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.
And then instead of waiting for Jesus to replace Judas they took it upon themselves… About like making your own private interpretation of the scriptures instead of allowing holy ghost to teach you…..
Matthias was chosen to be a witness of Jesus resurrection… Paul of course was a most definite witness of Jesus resurrection since he talked with Him face to face after his death..
I have not found any verse to say the Jesus chose Matthias as an apostle
Paul’s use of the word “apostle” is different than how everyone else in the New Testament used the word. I extensively documented that just above, and elsewhere on this website too, for anyone who has ears to listen.
This is a fact about the text of the Bible, which no one in the world has disproved. I explained about Acts 14 and Hebrews 3 (which were not written by Original Apostles anyway) which might cause some confusion out of context.
Besides Paul writing about himself, no one else ever said Paul was appointed an apostle or recognized individually as an apostle. And besides Paul writing, no one else in the New Testament ever referred to any other individual outside of “The Twelve” referred to in Acts 6:2 as an apostle either (except “Jesus the apostle” in Hebrews 3). This is a statement of fact about the text of Scripture. It is easy to verify with a Bible concordance.
People need to stop discrediting the one qualified, chosen, appointed, recognized twelfth Apostle, Matthias. Matthias was never removed or replaced by anyone. People need stop grieving the Holy Spirit as the third person of the Trinity, with the Father and the Son, as 3 witnesses. People need to stop accepting the unsupported testimony of one man about himself, Paul, and say Paul’s words override Jesus and everyone else in the New Testament.
no one is discrediting Matthias, except you….although we know nothing about his ministry
Marianne,
dmcal52 discredited Matthias in a post above.
He wrote, QUOTE:
“the apostles may have cast lots to see who would replace Judas, but God had already made his choice for the replacement and that was Paul.” and,
““The Apostle John wrote about the New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven: “The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the TWELVE APOSTLES of the Lamb.” [Revelation 21:14]”
I can guarantee you, Paul’s name will be one of those names on the twelve foundations.”
Source:
This is really the theological root of “Replacement Theology.”
That Paul, the self-proclaimed self-appointed “Apostle to the Gentiles” replaced the Original appointed Apostles because they were “too Jewish” ….. and Jesus was really “too Jewish also”, and He really didn’t get it quite right, so He had to send in Paul to set the church in order….. Jesus spoke of the first and greatest commandment and the second commandment as being most important, and these 2 commandments fulfilling the Law and the Prophets…..but Paul just skipped the first one and said if we just love people, that is the fulfillment of the law…. so the Replacement Theologian would ignore Jesus and listen to Paul instead……
It is not a requirement of an apostle to be famous or well-known. These were 12 men, faithful witnesses who followed Jesus during His entire earthly ministry of around 3 1/2 years, so they were qualified. Paul was not qualified and he never even met Jesus in person.
Matthew,
You keep asking about proof of Paul’s apostleship and I have given it to you and that being when Jesus interceded in Paul’s life on the road to Damascus, but you refuse to acknowledge this fact. Paul proclaimed over and over again that he was an apostle appointed by God the Father and Jesus Christ, that he was persecuted and suffered for Christ sake and the gospel and the fact that you continue to not recognize what he said as being God-Breathed, then the only conclusion regarding this is that you believe Paul to be a false apostle and a liar.
Regarding the word of God, from Genesis to Revelation, whether the gospels or Paul’s or Peter’s or John’s letters, they are all Scripture, God-Breathed. Paul never wrote anything contrary to the rest of God’s word. Your referral for me to go to another web-site for an answer is at the core of your deception (gathering around you teachers to say what your itching ears want to hear). All you’re doing is redirecting me to go read someone else’s study and that’s your problem. Since you are bent on this view of Paul not being an apostle and his letters not being God-Sent, then I wash my hands of this, let it be on your own head. But as it stands, just as Peter spoke against those of his time who distorted Paul’s letters, so the following is applied to you:
“Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.”
* Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him
* which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures
* And they do this to their own destruction
Is Peter a liar also? Because he is the one who wrote the above, not Paul.
So, just as those who did the same thing during Peter’s time regarding Paul and his letters, being ignorant and unstable is applied to you and this to your own destruction, that is, unless you repent of this. If you continue in this, at least you won’t have an excuse before the Lord that you didn’t know. I surely wouldn’t want to stand before the Lord as one who rejected his word and Paul whom he appointed to write it.
I wash my hands of it, you are responsible before the Lord regarding this.
dmcal52,
You are right- as you said QUOTE:
“PAUL proclaimed over and over again that he was an apostle appointed by God the Father and Jesus Christ.”
Yes, PAUL did write this about himself over and over.
But, as I proved from Scripture with many posts on THIS website, (not another website) nobody else agreed with Paul on his definition of what an “apostle” was , and nobody else ever said that Paul was appointed an apostle.
You believe Paul was appointed “The Apostle to the Gentiles” because PAUL SAID SO. Period. You think that Paul is the exception to the rule of needing two or three witnesses to establish his testimony (and this rule reflects the character of the God-head, 3 persons in one, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.)
I look to the testimony of Jesus AND the Original Apostles for the meaning of what an “Apostle” is, and who was appointed as the 12th Apostle. They are all in agreement with each other. But Paul is in disagreement with all everyone else. You follow Paul because Paul said so – like Muslims follow Muhammad because Muhammad said so.
But I follow the Lord God Jesus the Jewish Messiah, Son of Yahweh.
no one at the time disagreed with Paul being called an apostle.
you are 2000 years after the fact, and seem to be the only one who thinks it is an issue.
Paul wrote to the church he started in Corinth:
“Even though I may not be an apostle to others, surely I am to you! For you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord. This is my defense to those who sit in judgment of me…”
Paul just made up a new word – “apostleship.” No one else in the pages of the Bible ever used that word except Paul.
We know many people today don’t believe in “absolute truth”, but rather “relative truth.” As in, “that may be true for you, but it isn’t true for me.”
Paul here is doing exactly the same thing.
“Even though I may not be an apostle to others, surely I am to you!”
It isn’t true for others, but it’s true for you! Paul redefined the word “apostle” to include himself in this elite top level of authority. But no one else agreed with Paul’s definition or his claim that he himself was appointed an apostle.
Clearly, the church in Corinth DID disagree with Paul calling himself an apostle. Although Paul’s letters to the Corinthians provide the most obvious evidence of this, there are a number of other hints elsewhere. And even if there were not, it is an argument from silence to say “no one at the time disagreed with Paul.”
Somebody said these 2 quotes from above posts:
You can’t give sight to the blind, heal the paralyzed, drive out demons and raise the dead unless the power of the Lord is with you and Paul did all of those things, as did Peter and the other apostles.
If you reject Paul, you reject the Lord. If you reject his letters, which Peter recognized as wisdom from God and Scripture, then you are rejecting the word of God, because what Paul wrote is the word of God.
Do any of you on this forum believe Mal. 4 was suppose to return. At the Very End time the great and dreadful “day of the Lord”. And he was to herald in the return of Christ as did John the Baptist herald in a Message for Jesus Christ 1st. coming. Most of you cannot or will not believe the past history and you can not look in at the present because satan has your eyes blinded to the present as well .
So if Satan wanted to deceive the whole church and denominations. He would just “Put everything in the Future” Now he’s got you right where he wants you to be. Put it off till tomorrow, Tomorrow comes put it off till tomorrow again. Most of the Church will be looking in the Future and will lose out in the Present time. Not being prepared to leave this world any day now.
satan knows that and you all just keep believing. Its all in the future. I love you all enough to tell you the truth.
When I do prove things most will not write back. And they will say cause he is so deceived etc. Or he just wants to argue. But you cannot see your blindness of your own ways. Most of you have never heard the True Gospel period. You will not allow yourself to hear anything but what you glory in. You commend yourselves by yourselves and call everything else that does not think like you as false and shun them like in Jesus day.
The Sanhedrin were very, very, smart theologians along with their High Priest. They knew the O.T scriptures. Why did not they understand that Jesus was their Lord and King. They was Blinded in their present condition. The Messiah came in a whole different way than they thought could be possible. It did not come like they thought. The Jew is still waiting on Elijah to show up and that was 2,000 years ago. And most of your Gentile church’s are just like them.
Waiting on Moses and Elijah. Do you not understand that represents the O.T died out. And N.T church with Jew and Gentile was a brand NEW ERA of Covenant Promises that the Kingdom of God had come. That was John and Jesus WHOLE message. And Yes , Yes , Yes the Cross and Resurrection Had to come first. Before the Kingdom could come to YOU.
The below is soo sad but true
Jesus “generation” of religious god haters missed him and His coming. It was 37 years later and many of them were on the Temple mount and the Sanhedrin and all the rest of them. Watching the Beast of Rome surrounding their cities. And they still would not believe. Even though all the Christians left Jerusalem and fled like Jesus told them to do. And Rev. 1:7 was fulfilled. Read you Bible – When they asked Jesus if he was the Son of God or Messiah.
MATTHEW 26:63- But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
Now listen to Jesus Answer:
MATTHEW 26:64
Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall “YE” see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
That literally was that generation that ended the O.T covenant in 70 AD. But John and Jesus tried to tell them it was over for the O.T. But the Educated Sanhedrin religious Jews led their people right into the holocaust of that age 37 years later.
That generation that “pierced him”and “rejected him” many had to be alive and seen their judgment coming. No doubt they waited on the future to long. Jesus told them the Temple stones would not be one upon another. They believed it then but it was too late. The 3-1/2 year war made Israel desolate.
Where did Jesus get the quote’s from above: ISAIAH 19:1
¶. The burden of Egypt. Behold, the LORD rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it.
DANIEL 7:13
13. I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. – 70 AD was the “Ancient of days” for Israels O.T covenant.
REVELATION 1:7
7. Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
REVELATION 1:9
9. ¶ I John, who also am your brother, and companion in “tribulation”, and in the “kingdom” and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
VER. 9 – John is telling us the “time period” when Nero put him on the “Isle of Patmos”. So Ver. 7 has to be that same “time period”. !!!!!! Jesus even told his disciples THIS generation will see the End. End of the O.T Covenant and Israel and Rome. After AD 70 -Rome was never the same after they had nothing but wars and wars and division.
REVELATION 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else “I will come” unto thee quickly”, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
REVELATION 2:16
16. Repent; or else “I will come unto thee quickly”, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
REVELATION 3:3
3. Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
ALL THE ABOVE QUOTES OF HIS COMING ARE NOT VISIBLE COMINGS. HELLO. THIS IS JUST THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG ON THIS SUBJECT
Here is where most but not all of the “Coming in the Clouds” originated:
Isa. 19:1 The burden of Egypt. Behold, the LORD rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it.
DANIEL 7:13
13. I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. –
1. When Jesus was Visible in flesh right in front of the Jews and Sanhedrin they were blind and could not see HIM as GOD in a flesh body. Just like today. God comes in the flesh – if He is not IN YOU then you are still anti-christ. Do you believe you are a Theophany – God in flesh
2. When He came as He said to the High Priest Matt. 26:64 – They seen him but not in the flesh body. But they did see His Sign of destruction He told them would come. Their temple was history along with Israel. They sure seen that “coming” but it was to late. And they did not see HIM in the flesh.
They would rather fight God as to maybe think they were wrong.
They argued , fought and fussed, over stupid things. Denied Christ Coming, made fun of him, cursed him, denied him as a mad man. And then denied Pentecost as well. Leaving them ONLY JUDGMENT TO FULFILL that is the 2nd part of Christ 1st Coming. First is mercy and Grace – if you reject that which is TRUTH – you actually are rejecting freedom from false ways and lights of false prophets and never see the truth and will fall from Grace that you could have turned into Salvation by receiving the Holy Spirit SEAL of God.
We are the Temple that God dwells in. Apostle Paul tells us that so plainly along with others. How many of you believe that. Rev. 11:1 Its a New Temple being measured not some Stone thing for God to dwell in again. Wake up my precious brothers and sisters. Our time is short
There is a Lighthouse if you will receive it. Their has been a Message delivered to you and I am free from your blood. I will not be accounted for it. Cause I have tried my best with my ability to explain it. Their is to much to write it out all the time. Call me a mad man if you want to. The servant of God is not greater than His master.
I think matt 24 is a physical event. But I also agree that if someone does not see the spiritual level that the physical level will not happen for him.
each generation has to receive its tribulation and rapture , or else they die unfulfilled.
The original 12 apostles were sent to the Israelites first…. Where would we be today if there had been no Paul???? He was sent to the non Israelites. and to all men…..If he is not part of the foundation of the church something is seriously amiss..
As for Jesus being a jew that is not right…Jesus as are Christians was baptised and received holy ghost…
Not to mention the new covenant….Jesus was a Christian…
Most jews of Jesus day were infiltrated by Esau and Ishmael’s descendants and had corrupted the judaism religion..
JEW is not a blood line…It is a religion …Israelites are a bloodline…
And there is NO SALVATION OR ETERNAL LIFE IN THE OLD COVENANT..
Jesus aka Yeshua (His Hebrew name) was and is and will always be a JEW, for He is THE Lion of the Tribe of Judah, or did you forget.
He was called Rabbi, for He studied and taught The Torah each Sabbath(Shabbat) .
In His own words, Matthew 5:17, Yeshua it very clear that He did not abolish the Law/Torah.
If you believe He is Christian and has done away with the law, then you are dangerously following a false Messiah, for the Son of the Living G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob would NEVER contradict or go against His Father, Yahweh> that IS His name.
Amen Lyndsey,
Jesus did not come to abolish the Law or the Prophets but to fulfill them. [Matthew 5:17]
Some jews may have called Jesus rabbi, but some jews also called him beelzebub… As for the law and ordinances…Jesus said HE fulfilled them and He did… He stopped the pharisees from stoning a woman for adultery…He broke the Sabbath and He broke their blasphemy law when He said He was Son of God…Jesus paid the penalties for all of us…He nailed the ministration of death old covenant laws and ordinances to his cross….
The laws and ordinances and even feast days came into existence AFTER the jews made the golden calf.. These were a curse…
Going backward leads to perdition….
When will you understand Matthew , etc that jew is members of religion not a bloodline…
Fulfilled does not mean abolished. Read Matthew 5 very carefully .
Fulfilled = complete Abolished = done away with
Yeshua stated that He did NOT abolish/do away with the Torah/laws.
Further, Yeshua did not break the Sabbath. He did, however, break the man made Sabbath law that the Pharisees made and tried to enforce. It was these man made laws that Yeshua spoke against (as well as did Paul).
Yeshua kept the Sabbath and the biblical/Yahwehs’ Feasts listed in Leviticus 23 (which are lasting ordinances/forever) and actually FULFILLED/COMPLETED the Spring Feasts: 1) Passover 2) Unleavened Bread 3) Firstfruits and 4) Pentecost (Shavuot).
The remaining Fall feasts will be fulfilled upon His return: 1) Feast of Trumpets (Rosh Hashanah) 2) Ten days of Awe (Yom Kippur) and 3) Feast of Tabernacles (Sukkot).
And one reason why Yeshua stopped the stoning was because the man, whom she committed adultery with, was not present and the matter had to be established with at least 2 witnesses.
Regarding Jews being a religion, this is incorrect. Judaism is a religion, which is the foundation of Christianity, another religion.
To be a Jew, one must be of the bloodline of the tribe of Judah (one of twelve sons of Jacob aka Israel, hence the 12 tribes/sons of Israel) of which Yeshua was, is and always will be.
http://www.therefinersfire.org/who_is_a_jew.htm
Lindsey…
Do you understand what Jesus meant when he said he fulfilled the law?????
Also do you know where and when the word Jew originated????
Jew is a slang word…….The descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are called ISRAEL…..The slang word Jew was applied to those who practiced old covenant laws and ordinances centuries ago….
Did you know there were JEWS whose blood lines were of Ishamel and Esau…..A Jewish warrior named John Hycanus conquered Idumea and forced the occupants to convert to Judaism… These are spoken of in John 8 and these are who had Jesus killed… These were called JEWS in the bible because they practiced old covenant laws and ordinances NOT BECAUSE THEY WERE OF ISRAEL’S BLOOD LINE…
Anyone that wants to go backward to old covenant laws and ordinances which originated after the Jews turned heir back on god has to either hate Jesus or be retarded or just plain evil….Why in the name of God would you sanction the laws and ordinances that caused Jesus and the apostles death plus the deaths of all the children of Moses…
YOUR NAME IS BEING BLOTTED OUT OF GOD’S BOOK…
Deut 29-20…The LORD will not spare him, but then the anger of the LORD and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the LORD shall blot out his name from under heaven.
Deut. 29-30..And the LORD shall separate him unto evil out of all the tribes of Israel, according to all the curses of the covenant that are written in this book of the law:
DO YOU BELIEVE THE BIBLE????
Deut 29-20…The LORD will not spare him, but then the anger of the LORD and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the LORD shall blot out his name from under heaven.
Break one facet of the law and get your names written out from under heaven…
Looks like all the people who call Jesus by the jewish interpretation do not understand that God promised to send men a PURE LANGUAGE so they could call upon his name…This pure language would appear after the gathering of all the nations… So it would have happened after America was settled… Sounds like English to me and God’s name is JESUS..
Zep 3-9., 8….For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent. verse 8..Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy.
Lindsey, the father, the son and he holy ghost THESE THREE ARE ONE ….NOT THREE
aLSO Lindsey. Jesus told the men “He that is without sin cast the first stone.” and they slithered away…
Jesus fulfilled the law by nailing the laws and ordinances to his cross…He did not abolish the ten commandments… He in fact fulfilled all the ordinances and punsihments by taking this curse upon himself..He told us if you love god and neighbor and self you obey the commandments with no problems about it..
The ordinances were men judging men and punishing them.. Thanks, but no thanks..
Just remember your name is being written out from under heaven..
Ruth,
The only one who has the authority and power to remove my name is Yahweh, not you.
The pure language is Hebrew.
A Jew is from the tribe of Judah.
>Do you understand what Jesus meant when he said he fulfilled the law????? Also do you know where and when the word Jew originated???? Why in the name of God would you sanction the laws and ordinances that caused Jesus and the apostles death plus the deaths of all the children of Moses…DO YOU BELIEVE THE BIBLE????<
Yes I do and by learning my Hebraic Roots, I've come to understand it better as well.
(My comment did not post in its entirety so I am posting again) >Do you understand what Jesus meant when he said he fulfilled the law????? Also do you know where and when the word Jew originated???? Why in the name of God would you sanction the laws and ordinances that caused Jesus and the apostles death plus the deaths of all the children of Moses
See Psalm 119
1 (Alef) How happy are those whose way of life is blameless, who live by the Torah of ADONAI! 2 How happy are those who observe his instruction, who seek him wholeheartedly!…….
11 I treasure your word in my heart, so that I won’t sin against you. 12 Blessed are you, ADONAI! Teach me your laws. 13 I proclaim with my mouth all the rulings you have spoken. 14 I rejoice in the way of your instruction more than in any kind of wealth. 15 I will meditate on your precepts and keep my eyes on your ways. 16 I will find my delight in your regulations. I will not forget your word…….
111 I take your instruction as a permanent heritage, because it is the joy of my heart. 112 I have resolved to obey your laws forever, at every step. 113 (Samekh) I hate doubleminded people, but I love your Torah. 114 You are my hiding-place and shield; I put my hope in your word. 115 Leave me alone, you evildoers, so that I can keep my God’s mitzvot
Regarding Deuteronomy 29, I think we should read it in its full context, for it makes clear that those who turn to other gods are the ones who will receive Yahweh’s anger, NOT those who keep His Torah.
Deut 29:9 Therefore, observe the words of this covenant and obey them; so that you can make everything you do prosper. 10 “Today you are standing, all of you, before ADONAI your God – your heads, your tribes, your leaders and your officers – all the men of Isra’el, 11 along with your little ones, your wives and your foreigners here with you in your camp, from the one who chops your wood to the one who draws your water. 12 The purpose is that you should enter into the covenant of ADONAI your God and into his oath which ADONAI your God is making with you today, 13 so that he can establish you today for himself as a people, and so that for you he will be God -as he said to you and as he swore to your ancestors, to Avraham, Yitz’chak and Ya’akov. 14 “But I am not making this covenant and this oath only with you. 15 Rather, I am making it both with him who is standing here with us today before ADONAI our God and also with him who is not here with us today. 16 For you know how we lived in the land of Egypt and how we came directly through the nations you passed through; 17 and you saw their detestable things and their idols of wood, stone, silver and gold that they had with them. 18 So let there not be among you a man, woman, family or tribe whose heart turns away today from ADONAI our God to go and serve the gods of those nations. Let there not be among you a root bearing such bitter poison and wormwood. 19 If there is such a person, when he hears the words of this curse, he will bless himself secretly, saying to himself, ‘I will be all right, even though I will stubbornly keep doing whatever I feel like doing; so that I, although “dry,” [sinful,] will be added to the “watered” [righteous].’ 20 But ADONAI will not forgive him. Rather, the anger and jealousy of ADONAI will blaze up against that person. Every curse written in this book will be upon him. ADONAI will blot out his name from under heaven. 21 ADONAI will single him out from all the tribes of Isra’el to experience what is bad in all the curses of the covenant written in this book of the Torah. 22 “When the next generation, your children who will grow up after you, and the foreigner who arrives from a distant land, see the plagues of that land and the diseases with which ADONAI has made it sick, 23 and that the whole land has become burning sulfur and salt, that it isn’t being sown or bearing crops or even producing grass – like the overthrow of S’dom, ‘Amora, Admah and Tzvoyim, which ADONAI overthrew in his furious anger – 24 then all the nations will ask, ‘Why did ADONAI do this to this land? What is the meaning of such frenzied, furious anger?’ 25 People will answer, ‘It’s because they abandoned the covenant of ADONAI, the God of their fathers, which he made with them when he brought them out of the land of Egypt. 26 They went and served other gods, prostrating themselves before them, gods they had not known and which he had not assigned them. 27 For this reason, the anger of ADONAI blazed up against this land and brought upon it every curse written in this book; 28 and ADONAI, in anger, fury and incensed with indignation, uprooted them from their land and threw them out into another land – as it is today.’ 29 “Things which are hidden belong to ADONAI our God. But the things that have been revealed belong to us and our children forever, so that we can observe all the words of this Torah.
And Mordekhai was the first person to refer to himself as a Jew, see Esther 10
And finally, to settle abolish/fulfilled, what did Yeshua say?
Matthew 5:17 “Don’t think that I have come to abolish the Torah or the Prophets. I have come not to abolish but to complete. 18 Yes indeed! I tell you that until heaven and earth pass away, not so much as a yud or a stroke will pass from the Torah — not until everything that must happen has happened. 19 So whoever disobeys the least of these mitzvot and teaches others to do so will be called the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But whoever obeys them and so teaches will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness is far greater than that of the Torah-teachers and P’rushim, you will certainly not enter the Kingdom of Heaven! CJB
Heaven and Earth are still here 🙂
And here is the KJV version:
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy , but to fulfil . 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass , one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled . 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven
Lyndsey,
Outstanding comments/replies!
You just gave me something to think about, ponder and study.
I’m thinking that I (as a Believers, under the blood of our Messiah with a better and precious covenant) should take the same position – “stand” before ADONAI as the Hebrews did in Duet 29:10-18.
I do not turn away (right or left) or deny this covenant He made with me (2 Timothy 2:11-13).
I am to obey (John’s letters).
When I fail or slip, I ask forgiveness (Proverbs 24:16). He is faithful and will forgive (1st John 1:9).
Wormwood (Duet 29:18) is bitterness, un-forgiveness (Matthew 6:15).
I want to meditate upon what you posted and talk with my Good Shepherd. Thank you for postings such meaningful, important passages.
God bless you.
Psalm 25:15
Thank you DJ …. your words give encouragement 🙂
Lindsey..
It was man who attached the name Jew to those who practiced Judaism, NOT GOD…God himself called the descendants of Abraham, Issac and Jacob ISRAEL….
According to the apostles of Jesus a Jew is one who is circumcised in heart not of the flesh….
Romans 2-29..But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.. .
I believe the slang word Jew came into existence during Ester’s lifetime… The original meaning meant to cheat someone out of money, etc..
Est. 2-5….Now in Shushan the palace there was a certain Jew, whose name was Mordecai, the son of Jair, the son of Shimei, the son of Kish, a Benjamite;
Mordedai is possibly a descendant of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob but I believe he was called JEW because of his religion not of his bloodline..
Do you know what it means Rev. 2-9..I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. And Rev 3-9..Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
Synagogue of Satan is Satan claiming he is the god that is worshipped in a synagogue… Aka the God of Abraham..Those that follow this lie are false Jews….Synagogue of Satan also claims they are the chosen blood line through Abraham-Ishmael.
http://www.therefinersfire.org/who_is_a_jew.htm
Lindsey,
You’re blessing me like crazy. Great contribution with the link, “Who is a Jew”.
This is just one portion of this article:
“Our first Patriarch, Abraham was a pagan Chaldean (Gen. 12) whom YHWH chose (because Abraham chose to obey YHWH).
The moment he accepted YHWH and “crossed over” (which is what the word “Hebrew” means) into the land YHWH told him to go to, Abraham became a HEBREW, and all of his descendants became known as Hebrew.
All those who accept YHWH can legitimately call themselves a Hebrew. They’re not “Jews”; they are Hebrews. Only someone descended directly from the Tribe of Yehudah can legally call themselves a Jew.
The better question is not ‘Who is a JEW’ because JEW refers to JUDAH and there are 11 other tribes but who is ‘A HEBREW?’
Who is he who has CROSSED OVER IN OBEDIENCE TO YHWH?
That means no lineage gets a pass. If a ‘Jew’ commits adultery he is as guilty as a Gentile, but that is NOT for a Gentile to thump his chest in arrogance and assume that he can revoke that which YHWH declared cannot be revoked.
A person who does so is condemned by YHWH and no grace will touch him because his sole hope for life after death was a JEWISH HEBREW CARPENTER who said, ‘Until heaven and earth disappear, not the least stroke of the pen will pass from the Torah until ALL is accomplished’. Heaven and earth are still here and so is the double witness of Matthew 5:17-19 and Luke 16:17.
Our Savior was a HEBREW. He had to be to inherit David’s throne and fulfill Messianic promises. Again, the prophets didn’t talk about a Gospel being fulfilled by a Roman or a Philistine or a Babylonian.
If being a HEBREW were only confined to Israel, then how do we explain the ministry of Jonah to Nineveh? How do we explain ALL RACES being judged and perishing in the flood of Noah? What about Melchizedek, Jethro and Job – all righteous and obedient servants ACCORDING TO TORAH and ALL being outside of Israel? Torah and Gospel are the same thing.”
Thank you!
Your not only replying to 31313ruth, you are sharing with many other.
Blessings
Psalm 27
So glad that this link blessed you DJ. 🙂
Lyndsey
The first section of this link, especially the portion which DJ quoted extensively above, is absolutely amazing. WOW. My wife and I feel we can finally understand what is a “Jew” vs what is a “Hebrew.”
Although I do have an “Interlinear NIV Hebrew-English Old Testament,” I can’t really read Hebrew, so it’s hard to understand some of the specific points, such as the word “Hebrew” in Genesis 12:1.
But overall this really makes sense, it’s an astounding revelation, and it’s indeed exciting. It fits in very well with the ideas put forward by “Al,” a Messianic Jew who posts on this website quite a bit. Al writes about the 11 tribes of Israel basically corresponding to the Gentile church that has Messiah without Torah, and the tribe of Judah having Torah without Messiah- until “the end”, which is pretty soon. Thank you, and blessings!
Matthew,
That is awesome to hear 🙂 So glad the link was helpful.
And I would agree with Al > Al writes about the 11 tribes of Israel basically corresponding to the Gentile church that has Messiah without Torah, and the tribe of Judah having Torah without Messiah- until “the end”, which is pretty soon. 🙂
Blessings to you as well.
Lindsey, how can you possibly think Hebrew is the pure language…It is such a flawed language it does not have any vowels which makes it impossible to pronounce words, AND GOD’S NAME, etc..
The Hebrew language was part of the confused tower of babel languages…..The original language was split up and divided….I think English is the pure language because it is comprised of all languages in one way or another…
Plus Zep 3-10, 9…For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.
This verse says the pure language is for all the people not for a specific people..
Plus verse 9 tells us when this language will appear..
Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy. For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD,
NOTE: you can not even pronounce god’s name in Hebrew… This verse says the pure language is so all men can call upon the name of the Lord…
Your heels are being made bare of the gospel of Christ and the truth….Satan is unclothing and bruising your heel…by feeding you lies..Ephs 6-15..And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
LIES HAVE BLINDED YOU LINDSEY
JUDAS WENT BACKWARD AND COOPERATED WITH THE PHARISEES..
Hebrews 10-38…Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. Verse 39…But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. ….
You Lindsey are not living by faith but drawing backward into perdition…
Jesus is the holy one of Israel and you are going backward…
Isaiah 1-4..Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.
You do not really believe the Gospel and you are going backward to old covenant..
Isaiah 28-13..But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
You have forsaken Jesus who is God..
Jeremiah 15-6..Thou hast forsaken me, saith the LORD, thou art gone backward: therefore will I stretch out my hand against thee, and destroy thee; I am weary with repenting..
Both Moses and Hagar saw the back side-(hinder) side of God..Both Moses and Hagar are of old covenant laws and ordinances..
Gal 4-23,24..But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar-MEANS HAGAR….. READ THIS CAREFULLY AND LEARN TO LOVE BONDAGE…
Exodus 33-20, 23..But He said, “You cannot see My face; for no man shall see Me, and live.” 23…”Then I will take away My hand, and you shall see My back; but My face shall not be seen.”
Genesis 16-13..And she called the name of the LORD that spake unto her, Thou God seest me: for she said, Have I also here looked after him that seeth me? OLD COVENANT IS OFTHE BACKSIDE OF GOD….
Moses and Hagar both saw the back side of god…..This is the God of old covenant, and the laws and ordinances…..Christians see Jesus face to face…
2 Corinthians 4-6..For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
Genesis 49-16..Dan shall judge his people, as one of the tribes of Israel. Verse 17..Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.
Interpreted this means the serpent (pharisees) are like an adder snake in the way of Christ…these bite the heels…Biting the heels is cutting away the gospel of Christ which clads our feet….And the rider falls backwards to the doctrines of the serpent pharisees…
The judas’ and pharisees cannot say they have not been warned…
Hebrew is beautiful and learning it, especially the Hebrew Picture Language, just reveals even more how incredible Yahweh is.
Mark Biltz explains:
Lyndsey, it’s a very interesting video.
The speaker says that Solomon was a “type” of the Antichrist. I could agree with that – and in the same way, Paul the Pharisee is also a “type” of the Antichrist, as in the following statements….
“I have become all things to all men that by all possible means I might save some”
“I became your father… therefore I urge you to imitate me.”
“I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church.”
“Although I am absent from you in body, I am present with you in spirit.”
“The entire law is summed up in a single command: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.'”
“No one can say, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ except by the Holy Spirit.”
“I plead with you, brothers, become like me, for I became like you.”
“Join with others in following my example, brothers, and take note of those who live according to the pattern we gave you.”
“Finally, let no one cause me trouble, for I bear on my body the marks of Jesus.”
Yes, both these men wrote “Scripture” which is part of our 66 Books of the Bible, and is useful and profitable to read, at the lowest level of Scriptural authority, under Jesus, under the Gospels, the Law of Moses and the Prophets.
I don’t think you understand Paul’s intentions.
I try to set an example for my children and have them follow my example on things……but this does not mean I am trying to replace Jesus
Hi Marianne,
Greetings and blessings to you in this Christmas season. We were just praying for you now. Of course I agree with you that you should try to set an example for your children. That is the godly thing to do for any parent, really common sense, even though naturally none of us are perfect.
Rather than launch into my opinions about what “Paul’s intentions” were when he wrote all those statements in his personal letters that I typed out above, I think it might be better to step back and do some comparison and contrast. Let every matter be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.
Do you know of any other human author of Scripture who wrote these kinds of things, or held himself up as a SINGULAR example as Paul did here? I don’t. But I neither do I know everything, so maybe I missed something.
The Apostle Peter wrote:
“To the elders among you, I appeal as a fellow elder, a witness of Christ’s sufferings…. Be shepherds….serving as overseers….being examples to the flock. And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that will never fade away.
[1 Peter 5:1-4]
In The Aposlte Peter’s writings, it’s less about “I” and more about elderS shepherdS overseerS exampleS. Plural. Finishing up with The Chief Shepherd, Singular. Jesus is The Example. We should follow Jesus, and be examples. That is the message I get from Peter, and from all the other New Testament writers, except Paul.
In contrast, Paul’s writings, there is a lot of “I me my.”
I don’t have the statistics handy, but some Scholars have done studies counting the number of personal pronouns that Paul uses in his letters compared with how many personal pronouns other authors use. Paul is off the charts. I think overall Paul refers to himself about 3 times more than anyone else does. Whatever the actual number, clearly anyone can see that by a huge margin, Paul talks about himself far more than any other New Testament author.
If you have any further insights I would be happy to hear them.
the others wrote to other believers. they already had the long tradition and education as to who YHVH was. they were already in the faith, and just needed a message.
Paul was dealing with pagans who had no idea what the OT was about, or who Gd was. they never heard of the 10 commandments.
he had to explain everything, and do it from scratch. they were a bunch of yahoos that were not getting the point, and did everything wrong. this was a stupid group. they did not even understand what sin was.
rather than having them spend a lifetime learning the OT, it was easier to just say, do what I do, and what I say……
Matthew,
Paul can be confusing but I honestly can’t go as far as saying he is a type of Antichrist.
What I have learned about him is that he was well versed in the Torah and that would make sense as to why Yeshua would choose him to teach the gentiles (who, at that time, were part of the northern tribes that had been dispersed to live among the pagan gentiles, as is my understanding).
Reading Galatians several times only confused me more as It seemed that he was contradicting not only himself in Romans 3:31 but also Yeshua in Matthew 5:17.
However, when it was explained that he was talking about the man made laws by the Pharisees, then he made more sense.
I posted a video teaching on Galatians by Jim Staley above which helps explain further 😉
Hi Lyndsey,
You seem to think for yourself deeply – except when it comes to Paul, in which case you say “it was explained” but it doesn’t seem like you can articulate what you believe for yourself.
I listed above 9 statements that Paul made in his letters, which seem to me like things the Antichrist would say.
Do you know of any other human author of Scripture who wrote these kinds of things, or held himself up as a SINGULAR example as Paul did here?
Matthew,
I honestly dont know a lot about Paul other than to say He appears to have been a talker….(I.e.man in window incident)…. he wrote several letters and was well versed in Torah, studying alongside one of the respected Rabbis, is my understanding, and of course his vision of/experience with Yeshua after killing Stephen.
I’m also wanting to be careful not to speak badly of one of G-ds anointed, IF he was indeed anointed.
I will say that it concerns me how Christians will elevate Paul almost to the point of ignoring Yeshua and HIS words and that can be dangerous IMHO.
However, Your comments on Paul are interesting, especially your pointing out how much he pointed to himself, I.e me, my etc, but I’m not confident in assuming he may be a type of antichrist.
🙂
Lyndsey,
I understand your general mindset toward Paul – it’s been the mainstream mindset for many hundreds of years. Vaguely, generally theoretically, theologically, intellectually, maybe spiritually, you realize that there are some problems with Paul. And you correctly observe that many Christians elevate Paul above Jesus. But, it’s all sort of at a distance, veiled, unclear, and you can’t really point to anything specific from the Scripture.
You feel it would be a sin, blasphemy really, to admit to yourself “Paul was wrong,” even when it’s obvious that Paul contradicted Jesus, the Law of Moses or other writers, or even contradicted himself. So in those cases, you will unconsciously assume “well, Paul wrote this in the Bible, so it’s Scripture and it must be true, therefore, Paul didn’t mean what he obviously said, he must have meant something else. Paul was just misunderstood.”
Then, rather than comparing Paul’s writings with Jesus (the 4 Gospels) or the Torah, you look at Paul’s writing alone, or compared with another part of Paul’s writings, and rationalize and justify “why Paul was right.” You will compare Paul with Paul, or with interpretations of other teachers (or your own ideas), rather than comparing Paul with Jesus or Torah (or other writers of Scripture.)
This fundamentally flawed approach to interpreting Paul’s writings is so deeply ingrained in our Evangelical Christian world that we are almost entirely blind to it. We have been conditioned to believe unconsciously that it’s a sin to examine or compare Paul and his writings with Jesus or any other writer in Scripture. So you will speak of “wanting to be careful not to speak badly of one of G-ds anointed,” referring to Paul.
It is a “radical” idea to say that “Solomon was a type of the Antichrist.” (Although I could agree somewhat, depending on what exactly is meant by that.) Clearly, this is a far MORE radical idea than saying that “Paul was a type of the Antichrist.”
Solomon was literally “G-ds anointed,” literally son of King David, literally anointed and universally recognized as God’s chosen King of Israel and God clearly spoke to Solomon and did miraculous signs through him – and Solomon wrote significant portions of Scripture. Song of Solomon, Ecclesiastes, numerous Proverbs, and some Psalms.
So how is it that you feel free to evaluate the life of “G-ds anointed,” King Solomon, and suggest he was a “type of the Antichrist,” but you are so hesitant to consider, compare, contrast, think about, evaluate, and discuss Paul and his writings? We have been trained to be blind when it comes to Paul. But now is the time for the blinders to come off.
Let’s move down from a general theoretical level and be specific.
I listed above 9 statements that Paul made in his letters, which seem to me like things the Antichrist would say. If you think that “Paul was right” in making these statements, can you back that up with the writings of anyone else in Scripture?
http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Grammar/Unit_One/History/history.html
Lyndsey,
Your batting 1000. Every contact point made in love.
Have you seen this site –
http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Prayers/The_Lord_s_Prayer_1/the_lord_s_prayer_1.html
http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Names_of_G-d/Esoteric/esoteric.html
Just try’n to give some assistance, adding some resources to this thread and page.
You have a great swing, great timing and good footwork. Do you play golf?
Blessings
Psalm 119
Good info DJ! Thank you 🙂
I noticed here > http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Names_of_G-d/YHVH/yhvh.html< that YHVH spoke to Moses and gave His name in Hebrew:
"When God commissioned Moses to be Israel's liberator from the bondage of Pharaoh's Egypt, he asked for God's Name in order to validate his God-given role to the children of Israel (see Exodus 3:14). God simply answered Moses, "ehyeh-asher-ehyeh":
Exodus 3:14
Using ESword: Exo 3:14 And GodH430 saidH559 untoH413 Moses,H4872 I AMH1961 THATH834 I AM:H1961 and he said,H559 ThusH3541 shalt thou sayH559 unto the childrenH1121 of Israel,H3478 I AMH1961 hath sentH7971 me untoH413 you.
I AM H1961
היה
hâyâh
haw-yaw'
A primitive root (compare H1933); to exist, that is, be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary): – beacon, X altogether, be (-come, accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), continue, do, faint, fall, + follow, happen, X have, last, pertain, quit (one-) self, require, X use.
THAT H834
אשׁר
'ăsher
ash-er'
A primitive relative pronoun (of every gender and number); who, which, what, that; also (as adverb and conjunction) when, where, how, because, in order that, etc.: – X after, X alike, as (soon as), because, X every, for, + forasmuch, + from whence, + how (-soever), X if, (so) that ([thing] which, wherein), X though, + until, + whatsoever, when, where (+ -as, -in, -of, -on, -soever, -with), which, whilst, + whither (-soever), who (-m, -soever, -se). As it is indeclinable, it is often accompanied by the personal pronoun expletively, used to show the connection.
Seems to me that by the conversation between YHVH and Moshe (Moses) being in Hebrew and with Moses writing what happened in Hebrew, that it would stand to reason that Hebrew is the pure language being restored. 🙂
Thank you for the links DJ, very helpful and informative 🙂
And Thank you DJ so much for your support and encouragement.
Blessings to you as well 😉
Oh, and no golf….just chess, where my husband may allow me to win from time to time, haha 🙂
Lyndsey, Al, and DJ
I am so glad we all seem to agree wholeheartedly with the words of Yahshua in Matthew 5:17-20
So we could all clearly see that anyone who wrote a personal letter referring to Yahshua “abolishing in his flesh the law with it’s commandments and regulations” [Ephesians 2:15] was clearly wrong.
Definitely agree with the words of Yahshua in Matthew 5
Paul is often misunderstood as even Peter had to explain (2 Peter 3) 😛
When it was explained to me that Paul was referring to the Law of the Pharisees then he made much better sense and didn’t seem to contradict himself when he stated that we are to uphold/confirm the law/Torah in Romans 3:31 😉
Romans 3:31 Does it follow that we abolish Torah by this trusting? Heaven forbid! On the contrary, we confirm Torah. CJB
Hi Matthew,
You are right! It does “read” as if Paul is saying that the Torah was abolished by Messiah’s death, giving us the problem we have today with the Christian Church on one side and the Messianic believers in Yahshua on the other side.
Ephesians 2:15
15)”And in his flesh (the) enmity and regulations of commands (contained) in his commandments are abolished (so) that in himself (an occurrence of the divine nature, or qnoma*) he might make the two one, establishing peace”.
“*Qnoma can mean “core substance” or “occurrence.” Although Greek reads “self” Aramaic does not; “self” leads to assumptions of “personhood” which breeds idolatry”.
This verse above came directly out of an Aramaic English New Testament.
If you read carefully, you will see that it is the “REGULATONS OF COMMANDS (contained) in his commandments” that have been abolished.
This is actually what Paul was saying. These are the oral traditions (laws) that the Pharisees added to the written Torah (without permission from Yah) and laid them on the backs of Israel, to be obeyed even as the written Torah given at Sinai. When ever the “law” is spoken of in terms of being abolished or done away with in the Renewed Covenant, it is the “oral law” of the Pharisees they are talking about. The Greek translations we have interpreted by the Gentiles, do not make these kind of distinctions. Thus accounting for at least 1700 years of misinformation and understanding concerning what was actually being abolished. But with that being said, I believe Yah allowed it to be this way, having His two witnesses-the Christian Church (Ephraim-10 lost Tribes) proclaiming the grace and mercy of Messiah and Israel, (Judah and Benjamin), proclaiming and keeping alive Yah’s Instructions for life, bringing both together at the end as we are seeing now. Jew and Gentile=One New Man in Messiah Yahshua.
A
I agree. this is where “cheap grace” comes from
Hi Al,
You made the rather sweeping statement above, QUOTE:
” Whenever the “law” is spoken of in terms of being abolished or done away with in the Renewed Covenant, it is the “oral law” of the Pharisees they are talking about.”
That is a pretty broad claim to make. I have not done sufficient research to disagree with you. However, I suspect that PAUL is the only writer who ever spoke of the “law…. in terms of being abolished or done away with.”
If there is another New Testament writer who spoke of the Law in this way, please let me know. Otherwise, you are letting Paul alone redefine the word “Law” and then imposing Paul’s singular redefinition on everyone else. (sort of like Paul redefining the word “Apostle” or Muhammad redefining the word “Prophet.”)
I don’t see any evidence so far in the text of Scripture that Paul was referring to the “oral law” rather than the Law of Moses being abolished or done away with. I need to analyze specific texts in context, not generalizations.
We could debate endlessly about “what Paul really meant” if we simply compare Paul with Paul, and don’t compare Paul with Jesus or Torah. Let every matter be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses! I don’t know everything. But it is idolatry, false religion, to say that the words of Paul stand alone and they must be right even if they contradict Jesus and the Torah. It isn’t Paul’s prerogative to redefine the word “Law.”
The Apostle John wrote:
“The law was given through Moses; grace and truth came though Jesus Christ.” [John 1:17]
The meaning of “The law was given through Moses” is very simple, clear, and only someone who is brainwashed could think it refers to anything except the Torah. It doesn’t mean ‘the “oral law” of the Pharisees.’
Blessings to you, for the glory of Yahshua!
I think if you check the conversations of Jesus with his followers, you will sometimes see him follow the format, “it is said…..but it is written…….”
he was making a distinction between what god actually had said , and what man said later orally, then wrote it down.
examples:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%205&version=ESV
Matthew 5 (English Standard Version)
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Matthew 5
English Standard Version (ESV)
The Sermon on the Mount
5 Seeing the crowds, he went up on the mountain, and when he sat down, his disciples came to him.
The Beatitudes
2 And he opened his mouth and taught them, saying:
3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 “Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
5 “Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.
6 “Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.
7 “Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.
8 “Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
9 “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons[a] of God.
10 “Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 “Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. 12 Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
Salt and Light
13 “You are the salt of the earth, but if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltiness be restored? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trampled under people’s feet.
14 “You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that[b] they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.
Christ Came to Fulfill the Law
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Anger
21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ 22 But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother[c] will be liable to judgment; whoever insults[d] his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell[e] of fire. 23 So if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there before the altar and go. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. 25 Come to terms quickly with your accuser while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison. 26 Truly, I say to you, you will never get out until you have paid the last penny.[f]
Lust
27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.
Divorce
31 “It was also said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ 32 But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
Oaths
33 “Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform to the Lord what you have sworn.’ 34 But I say to you, Do not take an oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, 35 or by the earth, for it is his footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 36 And do not take an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black. 37 Let what you say be simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything more than this comes from evil.[g]
Retaliation
38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic,[h] let him have your cloak as well. 41 And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42 Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.
Love Your Enemies
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet only your brothers,[i] what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
dum dum if HEbrew was the original language spoken in the garden it was replaced by multiple languages. at the tower of Babel…..languagists and historians know the original language was/is UNKNOWN…
You sure do not give God much credit…..Do you really think a language devoid of vowels is a divine language…..?????? Does that mean the inventors of the present day English language is smarter then God…
What can I say, except from where I stand many need to learn to read……….
I hope Marianne is wide awake…She does not belng in your class of idiocy and judas- ism
no room here for name calling
please correct
vowels are implied but not written in hebrew…also there ARE vowel marks under the modern written hebrew so it is obvious the language is pronouncable.
no one knows for sure what was spoken in the garden…..maybe aramaic or hebrew
they still exist today.
the bible desribes hebrew as a “pure language” that the people would be restored to once they returned from the nations to Israel….and this prophecy has come true.
Todah Marianne 🙂
Marianne please show me scripture for what you have said…I hae read of pure language only once and it it occurs when the nations are gathered together..
Plus Zep 3-10, 9…For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.
This verse says the pure language is for all the people not for a specific people..
Plus verse 9 tells us when this language will appear..
Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy. For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD,
you got the scripture.
for centuries hebrew was a lost language. and it was revived after 1948
Marianne,
If anyone would care to know, this explains how the modern Hebrew we have today, came into existence through a man named Eliezer Ben-Yehuda.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/judaica/ejud_0002_0003_0_02570.html
inspiring story…..the world owes him a lot
There used to be a series on one of the Christian tv stations called Against All Odds. It told of the miraculous outcomes of modern day Israel. One of the segments focused on Eliezer Ben-Yehuda. It is truly amazing.
I have heard it said, that the best way to change a nations culture is to change its language, with new words having new meanings. In just one generation, the culture will be for the most part changed. That is why words are so important and foundational in every way. That is why YHWH said He changes not. Man has changed the words not Yah. His Word stands without change for ever.
Granted the Lord did hide some mysteries in the Hebrew language… For instance.
Daniel 9-11..Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the CURSE is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him. …The word CURSE is spelled ALAH in Hebrew…
Looks like the oath that is written in the law of Moses is a curse akin to Islam…old covenant doctrines laws, etc..
Also Zechariah 5- 1,3..Then I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a flying roll. V. 3..
Then said he unto me, This is the CURSE that goeth forth over the face of the whole earth:… The roll is a book and the word curse is spelled ALAH in Hebrew…Wow. This book must be connected to old covenant laws, etc…Both are spelled ALAH…
Many time the Bible speaks of words and names being interpreted….God was showing us how to find some of the mysteries….by using interpretations….
Also. Matthew 14, 15 speaks of this roll-gospel that goes over the entire earth…this is not Christ’s gospel..Christ’s gospel was preached in all the world before all the apostles died…. This gospel is the Koran gospel whereby men as did the Adams believe the lies of Satan and are transferred into an image like unto Satan.. It is the abomination that makes men desolate of God’s sprit..
Isaiah 24-6 and chapter is about this curse that desolate the earth…
And I promise you there is much more to prove these things in Scripture..
Muslims force their people to learn Arabic and try to pass it off as the pure language too…..The more I learn the more I know if god does not save us by faith we are all damned….We are downing in Biblical lies from false prophets and false christians..
Mark Blitz is interpreting prophecy with the sun, moon and stars….That is called divining and is strickly forbidded in the Bible……It is astrlogy divination.
The wonders in the heavens is prophecied in Rev 12….From a man who calls Solomon and Paul antichrist what else could be expected..except to peddle lies..
I am unable to understand how some can accept lies so easily…
Genesis 1:14 And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as SIGNS to mark sacred times, and days and years.
Signs/Signals
The star of Bethlehem was a sign/signal for Yeshuas Birth/Sacred Time.
The New Moon is a sign/signal for Yahwehs’ Feasts/divine appointments, I.e. Rosh Hashanah/Feast of Trumpets (see Leviticus 23).
Mark did not say Paul was a type of antichrist, he said Solomon was and he gave his reasons.
John 8:32
Lindsey…
Genesis 1-14…And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for OWTH/signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: THE HEBREW WORD FOR SIGNS IS OWTH…IT IS THE SAME WORD USED FOR CAIN’S MARK…
Genesis 4-15…And the LORD set a OWTH/ mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him. ….
Want to know why…It is very simple…Cain worshipped the sun, moon and stars astrology worship of Baal…
Jude shows this when he compared Cain’s way with Baalam and Korah..The same Korah in Moses wilderness when the Jews bowed down to the golden calf.. Aka SIN THE MOON GOD…
God also told Cain, SIN LIETH AT THE DOOR… I AM SURE GOD WAS REFERRING TO Sin the moon god who claimed he was the door to the heavens..
THE WONDERS IN THE HEAVENS are in Revelation 12..and the sun, moon and stars also in the very first sentence.. I can explain most of that chapter but to what avail…To be attacked by unbelievers..???
Rev 12-1..And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: Rev 3..And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
These are the wonders in the heavenly realm….You guys are so brilliant..See if you can interpret Rev 12…. I can…most of it….ALWAYS REMEMBER GOD ALWAYS PUT ALL THE ANSWERS IN THE BIBLE…
f Mark Bl;itz could read he should read ALL of Joel 2…It shows clearly an army attacks the people about the word of God and changes them from the garden of Eden to a desolate wilderness…These are the wonder that clauses the sun to beomce dark, etc…exactly as said in Rev 12.. the dragon and his gang attack the woman which is the Christian church..He cast one third of them down to earth..and that is all I am saying ..It is past bedime in USA…Nite..
e313ruth
http://jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Other%20Pagan%20Mumbo-Jumbo/hebrew_roots.htm
this link is about as extreme as other links.
neither english nor greek is the “pure language” mentioned by god to restore his people to.
“jesus” spoke aramaic or hebrew….not greek to his followers.
there is too much hooplah over his name.
jesus is the accepted english translation now….no matter how it came about
Yeshua or Yashua would have been the original name in hebrew, as it means salvation or god is my salvation in hebrew…..I just know Mary and Joseph did not give the baby a greek name.
Hebrew roots has it contributions that are positive, and the opposing movement to remove it is about as cultish as what it claims to oppose.
I think many points HRM raises are legitimate…..and they do NOT suggest the 2-3 dozen varieties of names for the Lord as accused.
Lord just means ruler of one’s house or place…..the pagans have a word for it, and so do the rest of us….it means owner…..HRM is not trying to make BAAL god of the OT and NT
Lyndsey,
Regarding the signs in the heavens – if you have time…please read this link.
BTW – with what you posted in one day, including –
what it means to be Hebrew (Refiner’s Fire link),
what it means to be a Jew (Stanley video message) and a Gentile (Stanley’s message on Galatians)
along with the Hebrew word pictures (Mark Blitz 10 min video), and
what you just summarized from Hebrew4Christians regarding the Name given Moses,
all of that the above together, collectively is very powerful information.
Hebrew is God’s language, communicating His promise (covenant old and new/better) with His people, the elect. The Hebrew word pictures (Moses) are scripts of His amazing love.
Believers (in their DNA) are the elect, chosen before the foundation of earth was formed, known to Him. I was a lost sheep. He searched and found me.
Yeshua is my Messiah.
By faith I accept the Way, the Truth and the Life and believe. It is not by my works.
The Word is power and life to those who believe. An application of faith includes binding and casting out demons, loosing angels too (aka Keys).
Our work is to advance the Kingdom of God, His will be done.
God bless you for your faith/actions.
Blessings
Psalm 119
DJ, so you think God uses astrology now to reveal his mysteries..????..Do you think God’s memory is so faulty He forgot the wonders in heaven in Rev 12 and had to resort to astrology signs and divination????
No wonder the Lord said “Scarcely will the righteous be saved.”
Believing lies is the key to the door to hell…. The only truth I have seen on this site recently is of Jesusistheway…
They brought out something interesting… Jesus said to baptise in the NAME of the father, son and holy ghost…..Peter did exactly that…He baptised in the name of Jesus…Peter knew Father is Jesus, holy ghost is Jesus and Jesus is Jesus.
e1313ruth
Thank you for your reply! Great to share what the Scriptures tells us.
First, we know that God created the heavens and He knows the names for all plants and clusters of stars.
God’s words recorded in the book of Job. God is telling Jib a few things, because Job thinks he knows it all (pride). God needed to remind Job of a few particulars about His creation – including the zodiac.
“Can you bind the chains of [the cluster of stars called] Pleiades, or loose the cords of [the constellation] Orion? Can you lead forth the signs of the zodiac in their season? Or can you guide [the stars of] the Bear with her young? Do you know the ordinances of the heavens? Can you establish their rule upon the earth?” (Job 38:31-33, Amplified Bible).
So here is what the prophet Amos wrote as the Spirit of God led him to write. Amos was no astrologer or moon worshiper, pagan.
“He made the Pleiades and Orion; He turns the shadow of death into morning and makes the day dark as night; He calls for the waters of the sea and pours them out on the face of the earth; The Lord is His name. He rains ruin upon the strong, so that fury comes upon the fortress” (Amos 5:8-9, NKJV).
God created the z o d i a c (arrangement of stars) for a reason.
Satan twists and perverts the zodiac. God created the zodiac to give wise men and wise virgins information – including the conception and birth of Jesus and His soon return.
We know that the “wise men” followed a “star” in search for the newborn King of the Jews as recorded in Matthew 2:2,
“Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the East came to Jerusalem saying, ‘Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him’ (NKJV).
These were “wise men” – these men were not Astrologers who worshiped or put any faith in the “powers” of the heavens.
Astrologers?
I think these “wise men” were closer to astronomy majors and scholars of Holy Scriptures. They did not worship the stars and give themselves over to “powers”. They applied Amos 5:8-9 and Job 38: 31-33 and understood how to read the Hebrew zodiac that God created in the heavens.
These “wise men” realized that God named the constellations and knows the names of plants/stars and their meaning. They came to worship the King and were filled with joy when they saw Him (Matthew 2:10).
“Lift up your eyes on high, and see who has created these things, Who brings out their host by number; He calls them all by name, By the greatness of His might and the strength of His power; Not one is missing” (Isaiah 40:26, NKJV).
“The heavens declare the glory of God; And the firmament shows His handiwork. Day unto day utters speech, and night unto night reveal knowledge…”(Psalms 19:1-6, NKJV).
On Feasts of Trumpets, 09/29/11, there was a sign in the heavens – the days of Revelation have begun.
The same “sign” in heavens that told of His conception (Feasts of Tabernacles), and the day of His birth (17th of Tamuz), tells us of His soon return. This sign occurred on September 29, 2011 (Feasts of Trumpets).
Look at the evidence within this link. The sign above us on September 29, 2011 – Feast of Trumpets tell us He is returning soon.
God bless you in the reading of His Word.
DJ,
Great “controlled” and concise response! We all need to pray for that kind of patience….
Shalom
DJ..I think you do not understand asrology…The ancient astrology cult consisted of Satan-baal and his seven demons…These pose as the sun, moon and five planets… Hence the sun, god and the moon god, etc… This is exactly what the Jews turned to in the wilderness…The golden calf was a symbol of the astrology moon god.. The entire world worshipped the astrology gods until god called Abraham out of it….. The world’s religions all stem to the ancient astrology gods, and goddess… Except Christianity and Judaism…Allah was in fact provable by history to be Hubal the name for the astrology moon god of Arabia..His name was Hubel. And he was called allah….., Sin was his name in Scriptures ..
This poem might help clarify..
.
Satan’s version of creation…
The fallen angels devised a plan
To cause men throughout the land
To forget about the God of creation,
And so began man’s dissipation…
Look up and see what I have made for thee,…see Deut 4-19..
The foundation I have laid for thee.
These are the secrets hidden in my tree,
The perversion of astronomy and theology…
The sun and moon and stars and all
The many gods to make you fall.
And fall you will and worship me,
The creator of all and the pagan deity…
The beauty of the heavenly sphere
And the many gods for you to fear,
And the many lies galore,
Will be called astrology and more..
More because the real truth of astrology
It is astronomy mixed with my theology
It plants in hearts of men the lie,
That I alone am HE on high…
We will hurt God’s heart and make Him sad,
The evil we’ll conceive will make Him mad.
Judgment will come but before my fall
The world will be at my beck and call
Astrology was part of the original sin knowledge Satan fed the Adams…
Astrology is divination….Divining God’s words or messages by the heavenly bodies….This is strickly forbidden in scripure..
Personally I prefer for God Himself to speak to me rather than trying to get messiages from stars..
Was not Job speaking about astornomy, not astrology…
We are as dumb today as were the Adams…and as easily fooled by satan’s lies..
A hint about the wonders in heaven… rev. 12..
The wonders in heaven of which Bibles foretell, Rev 12-1, 3.
is the woman with stars and the serpent with tail
The stars are the Christians including the chaff,
Who into the beast they soon will be graft…
One third of the stars are those of the fall,
The other two thirds who remain will stand tall
God will hide these away and secrets reveal
When he crushes Satan’s head and gives it as a meal
Some are not eating this meal God has provided in this war against satan..
Al, Matthew and all,
You don’t understand that the Law of Moses has been perfectly fulfilled by Jesus, that is, he met the righteous requirements of the Law of Moses (all of it) and it was brought to completion, being completely fulfilled by the Lord. We have a new covenant in the shed blood of Christ (By saying “new” he makes the old obsolete). I’ll use Paul’s example: We died to that husband (the law) and now we the wife (believers) are no longer bound to that husband. The Law only made us conscious of sin and could never save anyone.
Don’t you understand that by attempting to keep the law of Moses (any of it), you are not trusting solely in the Shed blood of Christ who met the righteous requirements of the law? Salvation is through Christ alone and there is nothing that we can do to add to what he has already done. This is what people are doing, whether they know it or not, when they attempt to keep or perform something in conjunction with Christ’s sacrifice. They think that they are securing their salvation by doing so, but little do they know that it will have the opposite affect.
Paul is not the only one who spoke about the Law being obsolete.
“Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”
So, the claim was made by this group of Pharisee believers that a person must be circumcised and made to obey the Law of Moses, which would cover the entire law. And here is the answer to that question:
“The apostles and elders met to consider this question. After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of Gentiles a yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear? No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”
above, Peter is referring to when he was at the house of Cornelius and that while he was preaching the good news to that Gentile household, the Holy Spirit fell upon them and they began to speak in tongues and prophecy. They received the baptism of the Holy Spirit without obeying the Law of Moses or by doing any works, for God purified their hearts by faith, that is, by what they believed. So, the answer to whether or not a believer is to be circumcised and made to obey the Law of Moses is:
“No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”
Grace = unmerited favor (you don’t deserve it, but you’ve got it.)
Anyone who attempts to keep the Law is rejecting what the Lord Jesus accomplished in himself, for Christ is the fulfillment of the law; he freed us from its power over us (for the law gives sin its power). Peter called the Law “A yoke that neither we nor our ancestors have been able to bear” and Paul said to the Galatians, “how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again?”
“For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.”
Anyone who trusts in the works of the Law, (keeping feasts, observing holy days, abstaining from certain foods, etc.), as a requirement for salvation, has been alienated from Christ and has wandered away from grace.
dmcal52
Yes, Acts chapter 15. If you read the whole chapter, you will see that the Apostle PETER was the Apostle who was sent to the Gentiles first. Neither Barnabas nor Paul were ever recognized as apostles in Acts 15 (although they were called to work with the Gentiles.)
The words of this chapter, faithfully recorded under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit by Luke, intentionally make a very clear distinction between “apostles” and “Barnabas and Paul.” Anyone who has eyes to see and reads Acts 15 can see this.
“The apostles and elders met to consider this question. After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe.” [Acts 15:6-7]
are you saying that Paul was lying and was not called to the gentiles?
No. Paul WAS called to the Gentiles.
Neither Barnabas nor Paul were ever recognized as apostles in Acts 15 (although they were called to work with the Gentiles.)
Hi Matthew,
We have already been through this and I have left this in the hands of the Lord. Paul was as much as an apostle as Peter, John or any of the others. If Paul was a false apostle, then he would not have been able to give sight to the blind, heal the lame and raise the dead for all of these he did by the power of God. Everything that Paul wrote is from the Lord and is true Scripture. In speaking of Paul, I do not put him above Jesus or any of the other apostles, but I do recognize him as appointed by God the Father and the Lord Jesus and his letters as Scripture. What is more plausible, that this collection of books and letters (including Paul’s) that make up the bible are the true words of God or that the bible is corrupted and God expects believers to go in and strip out the false teachings? By God’s power he insured that we would have his uncorrupted word, including Paul’s writings.
Those who started this belief against Paul and those who follow and support it, do so to their own destruction, just as Peter stated in Scripture. You are doing the same thing that those people who were doing in Peter’s day, that is, distorting Paul’s writings, which were not his, but the Lord who gave him the teachings by visions and revelations. If you continue in this, you will find out the truth of the matter and I have already warned you about this and that because this belief affects your eternal life.
As far as what I wrote which you used to commented on, it was to show that we are not bound by the Law of Moses, but are saved by grace through faith apart from observing the law. This is also something that affects one’s eternal life, for those who put themselves under the law are not trusting solely on Christ’s finished work on the cross.
As for the other issue, the Lord himself will make it very clear to you when you stand before him that Paul was his appointed apostle and that his words were and are indeed the Lord’s words and not his own.
dmcal52
You follow Paul because Paul said so – like Muslims follow Muhammad because Muhammad said so.
Since you have no way to refute what I wrote from Scripture, now you are giving your own personal opinions, rationalizations, justifications, excuses, reasons, and arguments about what is “plausible.” You are bound in spirit by the evil spirit of Paul. You are blind. But Jesus came to open the eyes of the blind. Jesus is The Way and The Truth and The Live.
“Fix your thoughts on Jesus, the apostle and high priest whom we confess.”
[Hebrews 3:1]
In Pauls’ words: Romans 3:31 Does it follow that we abolish Torah by this trusting? Heaven forbid! On the contrary, we confirm Torah. CJB
Rom 3:31 Do we thenG3767 make voidG2673 the lawG3551 throughG1223 faith?G4102 God forbid:G1096 G3361 yea,G235 we establishG2476 the law.G3551 KJV
Romans 3:31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law. NIV
Confirm/Establish/Uphold
G2476
ἵστημι
histēmi
his’-tay-mee
A prolonged form of a primary word στάω staō (of the same meaning, and used for it in certain tenses); to stand (transitively or intransitively), used in various applications (literally or figuratively): – abide, appoint, bring, continue, covenant, establish, hold up, lay, present, set (up), stanch, stand (by, forth, still, up). Compare G5087.
Paul has been misunderstood by many. Paul was well versed in Torah and we must ask ourselves why he would SEEM to contradict himself and Yeshua by writing that the law was done away with.
Clearly, in Romans 3:31, Paul is telling us that we are to confirm/Establish/Uphold the Torah/Law.
So what Law (s) was Paul referring to in Galatians etc?
To understand what Paul was talking about, we must understand that the Pharisees created many man made laws as a “hedge” per se surrounding YHVH’s laws to make certain that no one came close to breaking YHVH’s laws. In doing so, they created a huge burden on many of which even Yeshua fussed at them about.
Reading Romans 3:31 (words of Paul) while also reading Matthew 5:17 (words of Yeshua), one must conclude that Paul was not talking about doing away with YHVH’s laws (for this would contradict himself and Yeshua), but rather the man made laws by the Pharisees.
Additionally,
1 John 5
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
5 Everyone who believes that Yeshua is the Messiah has God as his father, and everyone who loves a father loves his offspring too. 2 Here is how we know that we love God’s children: when we love God, we also do what he commands. 3 For loving God means obeying his commands. Moreover, his commands are not burdensome,
1 John 5
New International Version (NIV)
Faith in the Incarnate Son of God
5 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves the father loves his child as well. 2 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. 3 In fact, this is love for God: to keep his commands. And his commands are not burdensome
amen to that 🙂
i guess it is ok now to disregard the law and just live by grace?
even the gays do that
Marianne as I see it the two love laws fulfills the ten commandments… Therefore if you love God and man and self you will not break the 10 commanmdents.. I believe that is in the scriptures.
yes those are the 2 great commandments.
except some people have no idea what they mean and break them anyhow….
it is good to have the commandments at least defined and explained and interpreted properly.
I have met so many people who live in sin and think they belong to God
Al,
You should have read the first, second and third draft. Sarcasm was removed one phrase at a time.
I think He understands and I’m to control the tongue (words). Those drafts are between me and Him as in this example:
“Nathanael said to him, ‘Can any good thing come out of Nazareth?’ Philip said to him, ‘Come and see.’
Jesus saw Nathanael coming to Him, and said of him, ‘Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom there is no deceit!'” (John 1:46-47).
Blessed be the name of the LORD.
Acts 15-12..Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
Acts 15–25.. It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, v. 26..Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Acts 1-20 through 26 shows clearly that Peter was trying to fulfill the prophecy about Judas being replaced.. He did not wait for the Lord’s chosen one to replace Judas..He took it upon himself to do it… Paul was the one Jesus chose….Paul’s deeds are recorded everywhere whereas Matthias was only mentioned twice (Acts 1-23 and 26.) and it was never about his accomplishments
An expert in the Mosaic Law tested Jesus with this question: “‘Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?’ Jesus said to him, ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”
Yeshua summarized the 10 into 2.
Love the Lord your G-d are commandments 1-4
Love your neighbor are commandments 5-10
e1313Ruth,
Thank you for continuing this thread! Thank you Lord!
The wise men came from the east, following a “star” to worship Him.
Yet, no one in Jerusalem (religious “know it alls”) looked up and saw the sign (configuration of King Plant – Jupiter and King Star – Regulus) within the constellation of Leo (Judah) at the time of His conception, which was during the Feasts of Tabernacles.
We know that the “wise men” saw a “star”.
The wise men observed that heavenly sign, occurring during Feast of Tabernacles. Then, they saw a configuration of planets (Jupiter/Vinus) under Leo occurring 9 months later. They KNEW a the King was born in Bethlehem per the Scriptures. The sign in the heavens told them the Scriptures were fulfilled and they so much wanted to go worship Him.
God created the z o d i a c for a reason.
God created the zodiac to give wise men (Hebrews) and wise virgins (Believers in the Messiah) information (signs in the heavens – stars/planets and constellations), telling those who comprehend/understand.
So then, by applying the same construct – astronomy, understanding God’s zodiac and Scriptures – we can interpret and “see” the sign in the heavens as described in Revelation 12:-1-5.
“Lift up your eyes on high, and see who has created these things, Who brings out their host by number; He calls them all by name, By the greatness of His might and the strength of His power; Not one is missing” (Isaiah 40:26, NKJV).
“The heavens declare the glory of God; And the firmament shows His handiwork. Day unto day utters speech, and night unto night reveal knowledge…”(Psalms 19:1-6, NKJV).
The same construct of heavenly signs that told of His conception (Feasts of Tabernacles), and the day of His birth (17th of Tamuz), is applied to Revelation 12:1-5, telling us of His soon return.
On Feasts of Trumpets, 09/29/11, there was a specific sign in the heavens – the days of Revelation have begun.
Look at the evidence within this link. If you don’t (I know e1313ruth that you will not to do so), maybe someone else can see the evidence.
e1313ruth, God bless you in the reading of His Word. May the Lord bless you and keep you.
Matthis is the one who was never recognized as the replacement of the apostle Judas…by anyone except the men who were not yet filled with the Holy ghost and did not wait for Jesus to chose the replacement.. Jesus chose Paul….
But if you are trying to discredit Jesus and the Bible and Christianity you might badmouth Paul…
Show me one verse in scripure that says Matthias was chosen by Jesus or show me any of his works as an apostle……
Paul is satan’s scapegoat to discrdit truth and to cause men to go backward into old covnant which leads to death..
I have a strong feeling the Holy Ghost is being grieived about cowards posing as christians while they badmouth Paul who died for Jesus and for mankind…And the holy ghost must be bored out of his mind listening to the same dribble 24-7..
Don’t you know. He made all things new….
DJ. God does not use astrology to reveal his secrets……He used the Word of God always…I understand what the wonders in Heaven are in Joel 2, and Rev 6 and acts…I know what it means for the sun to turn black and the moon to turn to blood and the stars to fall from Heaven.. IT POSITIVELY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ASTROLOGY LORE of the four moons, etc..
i will give you clue..These are the stars that fall from Heaven…Christians are the host of Heaven
Daneil 8-10..And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
Rev12-4..And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth:
But you prefer lies…
e1313ruth,
God does not use astrology. He created the heavens, placing plants in orbits, stars in locations and configurations/constellations in place for a reason.
How did the “wise men” (Scripture gives them this name/identification), know that there was a King born?
Oh, because they saw the sign in the heavens!
Oh, because they knew how to interpret the signs in the heavens?
Yes!
They put Scripture (Isaiah) with God’s zodiac and KNEW it was time to travel, seeking to worship Him.
Here is the proof in Scriptures.
“Lift up your eyes on high, and see who has created these things, Who brings out their host by number; He calls them all by name, By the greatness of His might and the strength of His power; Not one is missing” (Isaiah 40:26, NKJV).
“The heavens declare the glory of God; And the firmament shows His handiwork. Day unto day utters speech, and night unto night reveal knowledge…”(Psalms 19:1-6, NKJV).
On Feasts of Trumpets, 09/29/11, there was a specific sign in the heavens – the days of Revelation have begun.
The construct of heavenly signs that told of His conception (Feasts of Tabernacles), and the day of His birth (17th of Tamuz), tells us of His soon return.
Look at the evidence within this link.
I know you will not to do so and you continue to proof this to be true.
Maybe someone else will read this thread and open the link, seeing the evidence.
Nicetimimg gave us great information on dates/events regarding generations, pointing to 2017.
The sign of Revelation 12:1-5 fits perfectly within this construct of generations and Jubilee.
God bless you 31313ruth.
Time for some college football – obsessing on anything is not healthy and it is a good sign of a demonic stronghold.
Marianne, Al, Lyndsey (and Allan, DJ, or others who have interest)
We had much interaction above, ending with Marianne’s post
where she quoted the Matthew chapter 5 in it’s entirety.
Marianne noted that sometimes Jesus “was making a distinction between what God actually had said , and what man said later orally, then wrote it down.” I agree that there is a distinction, and that Jesus acknowledged this distinction. In the entire Matthew chapter 5, the only place I see the term “the Law” is verses 17 & 18, and in verse 19 Jesus speaks of “these commandments.” All these terms clearly refer to the Law of Moses, not to the tradition of the Pharisees (oral or written).
So what exactly specifically is “The Law”?
What does this term mean – “The Law” – according to JESUS?
Not according to “The New Testament”, not according to Paul, not according to me or you or any other person. I don’t know the answer yet. But this is something that is knowable. The text of the New Testament is really not that long, so we can figure this out.
We can define the term “The Law” from the New Testament text, according to the words of:
.1) Jesus
.2) Paul
.3) other writers
And if the definitions are different, Jesus is right, and others are wrong. Do you agree?
We are commanded in The Law:
“Do not have two differing weights in your bag- one heavy, one light. Do not have two different measures in your house – one large, one small… For the LORD your God detests anyone who does these things, anyone who deals dishonestly.”
[Deuteronomy 25:13-16]
So we should have one measure of what is “The Law,” and that should come directly from the words of Jesus – the Red Letters. Jesus is our one standard and measure.
With love and respect, I am compelled to say that what Lyndsey wrote that I quoted below here is an example of using “two different measures.” It’s making the faulty assumption that if Paul wrote something it must be true, so Paul never contradicted himself or Jesus, and therefore if Paul used the same term differently in different places, it’s because Paul had two different definitions of what “The Law” meant. That is like having “two differing weights in your bag.”
QUOTE:
“Reading Romans 3:31 (words of Paul) while also reading Matthew 5:17 (words of Yeshua), one must conclude that Paul was not talking about doing away with YHVH’s laws (for this would contradict himself and Yeshua), but rather the man made laws by the Pharisees.”
No one knows everything. I don’t either. I made a couple of posts on this website that were less than 100% perfect, Marianne called me on those, and right away I acknowledged what I had done with another post. Marianne can testify to this. I am still learning – I hope all of us are.
Matthew,
I certainly do understand your frustration with Paul. And I agree that Jesus/Yeshua is always right and ” is our one standard and measure”. I also believe that Yeshua would never contradict His Father, YHWH. 🙂
Hey Matthew,
Just to clear up the question about the written Law and the oral law:
Matt 15:1-3 “Then the scribes and Pharisees who were from Jerusalem came to Jesus, saying, “Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread.” He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition?”
Acts 15:10-11 Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?”
Matt 23:13 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.”
Mark 7:5-7 He answered and said to them, “Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: ‘This people honors Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me. And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’
Matt 23:25-26 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence. Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also.
Messiah Himself made a distinction between the Oral and the Written Law. If we do not understand the ways of Yah in His dealings with His people Israel, we will never really get a handle on some of these more complex questions. I have always said from the beginning, I tend to stay away from the writings of Paul, based on the understanding the Christian Church has of Paul. I even went as far as to say that my salvation is not dependent on the writings of Paul. But that doesn’t mean he is necessarily wrong, but rather misunderstood.
You read the writings of Paul the way the Christian Church does and arrive at the same conclusion, that he is saying the Torah has been made obsolete. But you believe the opposite is true, which I and others also believe is right, that Torah never passed away and is meant for today. I understand the things you are saying about Paul as a person, and I am not saying there might not be some validity in that. I really don’t know.
There are Messianic Jews who receive and understand what Paul is saying, and then there are some who see him as being The False Apostle. I have read from both groups and have respect for all of them. I tend to believe that in the end, Paul will be honored in the Kingdom, having fulfilled that which he had been given to do. I might be wrong with that, but I have seen enough to approach Paul’s writings as I do.
The bottom line is, in the days of Messiah, it was understood that there was the written Torah (Law) and the oral law of the Pharisees.
Well said Al 🙂
Shalom!
Hi Lyndsey,
It is good to see another like minded sister in the discussion. I have been following what you have been writing and along with DJ, find it spot on. Since 1948 the Jews are coming to the realization of Yahshua as their Messiah and those of the Christian Church are finding out who they really are in Messiah as both Savior and the Word. The two witnesses coming together as One. It is hard to see how it gets any better than this, but we know it will!
Shalom to you my sister
Todays pharisees are as boring as were the pharisees of Jesus day…
Al, Lyndsey, and Marianne,
The four of us all agree wholeheartedly.
“The bottom line is, in the days of Messiah, it was understood that there was the written Torah (Law) and the oral law of the Pharisees.”
Now we can answer the question, based on the text of the New Testament, which contains the “Red Letters,” the words of Jesus himself, the voice of God,
What is “The Law” to Jesus in His own words?
In my NIV Exhaustive Concordance, I looked up the word “Law.” In the 4 Gospels, the word “Law” appears 100 times. (31 in Matthew, 21 in Mark, 31 in Luke, and 17 in John.) There are also some Red Letter words of Jesus in the beginning Acts and in Revelation, but Jesus didn’t use the word “Law” there.
Out of these 100 times in the 4 Gospels, there are numerous references to “teachers of the Law.” And there are quotes from Pharisees referring to “the Law” in a way that indicates they really mean their own man-made law, not the Law of Moses. They mixed up the distinction between “the written Torah (Law) and the oral law of the Pharisees.” They redefined “the Law” to mean their own interpretation of the law, the law of the Pharisees, whether oral or written down. And Jesus confronted them and rebuked them for this, particularly in the Gospel of John.
In John 10:34-35, Jesus is mocking their tradition, referring to “your Law” and “Scripture” quoting Psalm 82:6 out of context. This is just what Satan did when he tempted Jesus [Matthew 4:5-6] quoting Psalm 91:11-12. Jesus is making the point that quoting part of a Psalm, which is only “Scripture”, the third and least authoratative part of the holy writings, the Kethuvim, is not the first, most important part, The Law of Moses (or the second part, the Prophets.) One could say that all “The Law” is Scripture in a broad sense, but not all “Scripture” is The Law.
So now the bottom line, from the text of our New Testament. The words of Jesus himself, the Red Letters, the voice of God.
What does the term “The Law” mean TO JESUS?
My answer: To Jesus “The Law” ALWAYS refers to The Law of Moses, no exceptions. To Jesus, “The Law” NEVER refers to the oral or written law of the Pharisees.
My testimony is not valid without another witeness. But I am making an observation of fact from the text of the New Testment that you all have. Please either agree, or if you disagree, then quote chapter and verse to show me where I missed something.
Blessings, shalom, and Happy New Year 2014!
Following Jesus the Jewish Messiah
Matthew
Law = Torah + 5 books of moses
the rest of the tenach is prophecy and etc
As I said Matthew you do not understand scripture…..
Your words…
In John 10:34-35, Jesus is mocking their tradition, referring to “your Law” and “Scripture” quoting Psalm 82:6 out of context. This is just what Satan did when he tempted Jesus [Matthew 4:5-6] quoting Psalm 91:11-12. ..
You are accusing Jesus of quoting Scripture out of context and comparing Him to Satan…
Jesus was not quoting Psalms 82-6 out of context..
Psalms 82-6..I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
.The pharisees accused him of blasphemy because Jesus being a man maketh himself God…And He replied thus..
John 10-34…Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
.V. 35..If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
V. 36..Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
The only similarity here with Satan is , the serpent told Eve she would not die, she would be like God in understanding… ..if she ate of his wisdom tree….John 34- 35..If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came,
This shows clearly that Satan was claiming his words were God’s words and she would be like God if she accepted them..
As for Jesus temptation and Psalms 91-11,12.,For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways. V. 12..They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Matthew 4-3..And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. This is you MATTHEW TRYING TO TURN THE stones- (mean stone commandments) into Bread..Jesus told you, Matthew, you do not live by stone commandments alone but by the New covenant in the word of God…and Paul’s words included..
Matthew 4-6..And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. Jesus is warning the reborn sons of God today…The agents of Satan will turn your feet away from Jesus and cause you to dash your foot against the stone commandments in lieu of faith.. …THIS IS THE TEMPTATION….
This temptation applies to men like Matthew, i.e. False Christs and it also applies to Muslims who also live by old covenant laws and ordinances, not by faith in JESUS, THE SON OF GOD..
Matthew I have posted things pertaining to John 10 and Psalm 81 and also the temptation of Jesus.. I think you are also trying to diminish what I have said…
Ruth,
These are your words:
“.. I think you are also trying to diminish what I have said…”
That was your last sentence of your post above. Can you not see what you are doing here? Everything you say and do is to lead the reader to what YOU have said. This is not about Matthew, Ruth, Al, DJ, Marianne, Lyndsey, or anyone else for that matter. It is a discussion to find the truth of scripture. What anyone of us says is commentary, not scripture. This is not about us and it is not about you. If you want to present your ideas, that is fine. All anyone asks is that you be civil, which you seem to have a problem with. I don’t know if you have noticed, but no one is calling you names (as far as I have seen). You seem to have that market cornered. That basically means that anything worthy you might have to say is tarnished at this point, because of your name calling and lack of civility. I still see you as a sister in Messiah regardless of what you think or say about me. But things are what they are and it will be what you choose it to be.
Shalom
Al, I promise you I am not your sister……and my words that MAtthew is rying to diminish were directed to Matthew,
Al, I always use Scriptures Always… meanwhile some multiilate them.. such as Matthew did…In John 10:34-35, Jesus is mocking their tradition, referring to “your Law” and “Scripture” quoting Psalm 82:6 out of context. This is just what Satan did when he tempted Jesus [Matthew 4:5-6] quoting Psalm 91:11-12. ..
Has anyone noticed that twice in the temptation satan said “IF THOU BE THE SON OF GOD”…I think this applies to the hour of temptation when Christians are tempted by synagogue of satan..It is Christians that are being tempted today to entrhone the stone commandments and ordinances in lieu of faith..Both by today’s pharisees and Islam…
Satan also said SONS OF GOD should cast themselves down..He knows they dwell in the heavenly realm with Jesus…Ephs 2-6….and Rev 12-1..One third of these Christian stars are cast down to the earth…by the false prophet dragon’s tail…
I am sure synagogue of satan tempts the entire world, I am almost positive this synagogue of satan is islam…But I think the two afrementioned temptations of Jesus is example for the Christians…
Rev 12 is about that battle of Genesis 3-15 ….The woman of Rev. 3015 is the woman of Rev 12…V.17 shows it….And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed,
I do not think there is a flaw here in those that come to comment that they prefer stone law over faith.
Jesus said, if you love me, keep my commandments……it is the issue of “love and obey…..which we all do gladly
Marianne does it not bother you even a little bit that muslims are teaching old covenat laws and ordinances????There is not one iota of salvation in old covenant….The old covenant laws and ordinances were given AFTER the jews fell down to the golden calf idol…God knew the people could not keep all of the laws all of the time and the punishments many times brought death…THIS IS NOT SALVATION IS IT A MEANS TO AN END to a bad problem..
Has it ever dawned on anyone that Mt Sinai was named after the moon god name SIN…..That the descendants of Ishmael lived there or very close by…… Paul even describes the old covenant laws as bondage of AGAR,,, meaning hagar..
Moses book of the law is a curse.. Daniel 9-11..It would be a blessing if all the laws and ordiinances could be kept, but they cannot, therefore it becomes a curse..
ruth
The muslims have their own version of the OT laws….they are not the same, instead, whatever the whim of muhammed is what goes.
the OT torah is holy word, and we do not have to strain at outdated regulations on how to kill a cow, but most of the law involved civil conduct and treatment of god and others….so we should do our best to respect those teachings……we do not place our salvation on observance of the teachings….because faith is more important….but deliberate disobedience to god is also wrong…..
example, anger is a sin…..people can have great faith and still get angry and out of control…knowing what the OT teaches is part of UNDERSTANDING how to please God.
Loving Yahweh with all my heart , soul and mind is not a curse, it is a blessing as are the other 9.
In Matthew 7:12, Jesus/Yeshua said for us to treat others as we would want to be treated, for this SUMS UP, the Torah and the Prophets.
If it was a curse, then why did Yeshua instruct us to keep them and why did He say ” if you Love me, keep my commandments”?
The two commandments He gave us, Love G-d and Love your neighbor, are a summation of the Ten given by His Father at Mt Sinai. That mountain belongs to Elohim, the great I AM and no other.
Ruth, do you love Jesus? If the answer is yes, then obey Him by keeping His commandments.
Matthew 5 * Heaven and earth are still here
Exactly Marianne 🙂
I dont understand why you have let the church curse you and your stars Lucifer, son of the Morning? I love you very much, Satan, you are no devil, no monster, but anointed and beautiful like Iris. Your angels esp males, are beautiful! Some girls have so much dignity in hell. Why you let the Church curse you? Kill them. Forgive me for following this doctrine for 35 years Lucifer. I love you more! I love Hope and I love all your leaders. Iris.
Al,
Thank you for your post, “written and oral law”.
I’m going to make a copy, saving it for future reference.
This was a blessed time, reading your reply, Lyndsey’s relies and reading her links.
I’ve gained a greater, deeper and more complete understanding of what Peter and Paul wrote. I also better understand Scriptures – from “The Hebrew” perspective. I am, by definition, a Hebrew.
I know better comprehend what Peter is expressing in his letter to the “Hebrews” and pilgrims (“lost” Northern tribes) when he writes his letters.
“…to the pilgrims of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ…
Therefore, gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance; but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.”
We as Believers (“Hebrews” in the pure definition, under the new covenant in His blood) we are to pursue “holiness”, seeking diligently to obey God’s commandments and the teaching of the Torah, which is the Word made flesh.
It is simple. We are born again through The Word of God (Messiah) who fulfilled the law (the Leviticus written law of blood sacrifice) as referenced by the Apostle Paul in Ephesians 1:7 and Romans 5:9.
Peter continues,
“…Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever…
Therefore,…be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; and consider that the long-suffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand [as those who know the Torah, which includes the written law and commandments because these are families of the Dispersion], beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness [in their knowledge of the Torah] being led away with the error of the wicked [false teachers, teaching liberty with great swelling words, including “lawlessness”], but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ” [Who was obedient to the Father, even unto His death].
This was a wonderful discourse with great resources.
God bless the reading of His Word.
“Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken, let us have grace, by which we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear. For our God is a consuming fire…
Now may the God of peace who brought up our Lord Jesus from the dead, that great Shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, make you complete in every good work to do His will, working in you what is well pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen” (Hebrews 12:28-29, 13:20-21).
Blessings
Psalm 119
Amen 🙂 psalm 119 ❤
It is not the ten commandments that are a curse….Has no read the old testament..
Daniel 9-11.Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.
Deut 29-27, 28… A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day: And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.
Gal 3-10..For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Gal 3-13, 14….Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
Gal 3-19..Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
What I read in the above verses is that the curse is not obeying the law, turning to other gods and Yeshua redeeming us from the curse.
Was this your point? I thought this was the point that we were making. Amen sista!
Gal 3-13..Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
Rev 22-3…And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
Col 2-14..Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; MOSES HAND WRITTEN ORDINANCES…Do you need to see the verse speaking of Moses handwritten ordinances
Hashem will kill us all when he returns and that is because we are breaking the law according to Isaiah 24. The law is not only two laws that Yehoshua teached. The law is the Catechism that the Catholic Church has.
Today during worship, I had a brief vision of God seated on the throne.
I think it was Jesus, but it might have been The Father. (Other times, I see The Father on the throne, and Jesus standing beside Him.)
Although the vision happened before this song below, not during the song, it is related.
SENTADO EN SU TRONO (jesus adrian romero)
Depression or despair grieves the Holy Spirit of God? THAT you consider to be blasphemy against the Holy Spirit? Not ‘spirit sex’? -Or deliberately causing men to convert to homosexuality and/or be translated into the form of an angel of light? The REAL Holy Spirit of God comforts the hurting, does not pervert them, does not need to, and loves people. It is also the Spirit of TRUTH, and not only believes in truth, but cares about it very much. -Also, it does NOT testify about itself.
if you read the post again, depression or despair can be part of the HUMAN grieving process after a loss.
Dear Ruth,
I was reading what Matthew wrote to you…..and Matthew this is certainly not against you….. YES we are to follow Jesus………BUT EVERYTHING,EVERY SINGLE WORD written in the Bible was ordained by the Holy Spirit. JESUS himself didn’t have to say it……HE basically (APPROVED) what was written! That is why there is such controversy now about homosexuality….if it’s wrong….BECAUSE JESUS HIMSELF didn’t speak it in the BIBLE…..YES if it is in that book it is the word of GOD period!!! Now you see shows on tv about “LOST BOOKS OF THE BIBLE!! HOG WASH!!! Every book GOD wanted in the Bible is in the BIBLE!! I don’t even watch much of it b/c in my opinion it is there to put doubt in our minds. RUTH…..GOD’s Word…(Bible) is ALL TRUE whether Paul said….Matthew said it…..Job said it….you can believe our HOLY SOVEREIGN authorized what was written in the Bible.
Espiritu Santo, dame mi sueno, transicion bajo Tu manto para Lucero Lucifer mi Amado, Hadassah, Navidad, Gracia, sus lideres, Boaz, Barbie, Guaperrimo y Misericordia, y para Rosas y Principe y Trompeta Reguetonero y JJ y Emmanuel Mirra y Muneco y Esperanza, Belleza, Arcangel, Oceano, Jacob, Proceso, lideres de Lucifer Hegai, Violeta, Kane 2 y3, Navidad, Dame a Lucifer y a Rosas esta noche y a Principe, tengo su ropa y pedi 700,000 decillion dollars, herencia para mi, mis hijos, para ellos Fuego Sagrado , para Nelson, Ada y Titi, etc. No tardes!