Hide yourselves!
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Perilous times are here. So now what do we do?
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Many have the hope that they will not be here much longer to see any dangerous events.
But the bible predicts that there will be saints here during these perilous times, and so this post is for them.
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Natural instinct compels a creature to head for shelter when there is danger.
However, man, with his opinions, can overrule common sense, and he is found to be either foolish or wise.
Prov 22:3 A prudent [man] foresees the evil, and hides himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished.
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God’s people have faced, and will face, many trials until the Lords’ return.
Yes, we should face problems with faith, and pray, but how else does God want us to react?
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Stay out of the way – hide
When riots or violence breaks out, do not get involved. This is wisdom. Or, when God is punishing the wicked, stay out of the way.
Isaiah 26: 20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
Isaiah 26: 21 For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.
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Keep mouth shut – this entire chapter in Zephaniah is about God’s wrath on the wicked.
Even Revelation 12 describes how He moves the “woman” Israel into the wilderness.
Time for talk is over.
Zephaniah 1:7 Hold thy peace at the presence of the Lord GOD: for the day of the LORD [is] at hand: for the LORD hath prepared a sacrifice, he hath bid his guests.
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Natural and man made disasters – this gives me great comfort. People have predicted that end time events will destroy most Christians.
If we follow God’s advice, we can be spared.
Assurance of God’s presence.
Isaiah 43: 1 But now thus says the LORD that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called [thee] by thy name; thou [art] mine.
Isaiah 43: 2 When you pass through the waters, I [will be] with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when you walk through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee.
Isaiah 43: 3 For I [am] the LORD thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour:….
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Do not fear!
Even during huge disasters of land and sea, God knows where we are.
Psalm 46:2 Therefore will not we fear, though the earth be removed, and though the mountains be carried into the midst of the sea;
Psalm 46: 3 [Though] the waters thereof roar [and] be troubled, [though] the mountains shake with the swelling thereof.
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Find the secret place of his presence – during pestilence, plaques, attacks against your life, and terror.
God and his angels will protect you, if you abide under His wings.
This does not mean go to church once a week.
In Judaism, the wings refer to the edges of the tallit, or prayer shawl. So, it means to spend time in prayer.
It means spend time with him.
Even if you are working, you can be with Him even then, in your mind and heart, guiding every word and action.
So, “where” you hide may not be as important as “how” you hide.
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Psalm 91: 1-11
He that dwells in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
I will say of the LORD, [He is] my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.
Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, [and] from the noisome pestilence.
He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth [shall be thy] shield and buckler.
Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; [nor] for the arrow [that] flies by day;
A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; [but] it shall not come nigh thee.
Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.
Because thou hast made the LORD, [which is] my refuge, [even] the most High, thy habitation;
There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.
For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
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Christians and Tribulation
For those who are here now, and suffer, and for those who will face the greatest trial of their lives, there are promises of protection and provision, if we become intimately associated with God, and hide under his wings.
Many will try to correct problems themselves, and get hurt doing it.
Yes, there is a time for action, and there is a time not to act.
We must learn discernment, and understand our circumstances.
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Jesus indicated that we could make it through any tribulation, if we “endured.”
We must endure in faith, prayer, and wisdom.
Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heaven Awaits 
Beautiful advice…thank you. Prayer isn’t words alone, or reading books. It is above all lifting up our heart in complete CONFIDENCE…whatever we hear, whatever upsets us , give it to our Heavenly Father instantly.
Fear is satan’s greatest weapon. It also changes our blood ph and our odor, opening our bodies to illness.
I believe the 23rd Psalm, said over and over in faith, will drive out illness…and help us choose foods and friends wisely.
OK, rapturists, jump in here and let’s get things going…
🙂
well!
whiz ban!
james is back!
ha! 🙂
Marianne did not say that no one would be raptured. She said some might not be. I think she has said this would be partly their own choice, to stay for a purpose or purposes. And she did not say that, after some tribulation, we would not be taken in the rapture. It will come at some time.
Those of us who hope for it will receive it at some time, but we do not know exactly when. I believe this is the gist of her meaning, and I agree.
I think it’s important to know when “not to speak.” Those of us on the internet are inviting trouble from those who do not like what we say. Perhaps it is time to withdraw from the more public and contentious websites. Some of these contending websites are not entirely wise, anyway, as they can’t ALL be right, and they disagree markedly about what is coming, when, who goes through it, etc.
I myself cannot understand those who think they can be strong enough to
withstand the tribulation in toto. However, there may be some who ARE strong enough, through God’s grace. I listened to one of these last night, who is advising complete preparation, not only food and water, but high quality clothing that will last through winters–and expensive boots, not “Walmart” boots which are flimsy and fall apart quickly.
I do have some preparations, but not for “years”. I pray for His merciful relief.
Grace to all here,
Mariel
hi Mariel
If I am here, I do not feel prepared.
It says saints will die, and how can anyone be completely ready to suffer a painful, torturous death?
camping gear will not help much. I think physical preparations are best for short term, but in the long run, even they are depleted.
Most of all we need to pray that Jesus comes soon, and spares us all of this.
I wonder, being Catholic as I am we all believe our denomination is the right one, but what bothers me most of all is the “radical Christians” like WBC preach such hate and vile things that it is hard to determine what is the right path. So many people twist the words of the bible to suit their own agendas. Some are very disturbed as I believe Mr. Roper is and his daughter Shirley. I believe with all my heard In God and I know I am a sinner and I repent quite often but how are we to truly understand the bible?Some scholars say parts ot the bible must be changed as with the times and were written in a very different time, so things must change to adapt. I do not believe this, I think Gods core values, core meaning has never changed , nor did he mean it to. A good value system and total faith and obeying Gods word to the best of our abilities should never change, he said it as gospel and meant it to be so, in my opinion the world changed he did not.And lastly on WBC no matter what they say or do, God forgives them too like everyone , and none are better than the other. They scream so much about the first amendment yet abuse it by constantly suing to make money to fund their “church” this cannot be Christian so I find them hypocritcal as well as insane.
hi debra
you are right. the bible has not changed, and does not need to. it is the word of god….and god does not make mistakes.
you are witnessing the great falling away right now. there are a lot of people calling themselves christians, but they are not what they say they are.
The Christian church has been in tribulation for 2000 years.. Intense tribulation since mohammed sent his hordes to force conversion and/or kill Christians as it continues even to today….
Today is the hour of temptation…. The Chrislam churches are those who did not wait on the return of the Lord…The real Christians are still waiting and kept safe by the Lord…
It is almost over…
The Chrislam churches cannot believe the Bble or they would know Islam, mohammed, koran and muslims are antichrist.. 1 John 2-22.
Indeed trying times are coming. Even if these times, soon to come, (or here apon us now), are not the rapture and tribulation, we are headed for difficult times from many directions all at once. The economy, here in this country and globally; water – many places are running out, if not out now; sea changes – the “red tides” are hitting here on the west coast and killing off invertibrae – abalone fishing has been halted; droughts and floods in this country as well as globally; cost of living just to buy food, medicine, keeping electricity and heat on. I am not any kind of scholar, biblical or otherwise. What I know in my heart is for me to do what is responsible and reasonable in “preparing” for myself, and helping my neighbor. And to KNOW that I am in God’s hands. Today, I give much of my day to prayer and reflection in order to stay close to God, to make myself available, and know that what ever comes my way, whatever is to be of me and that around me, is His will. If I am meant to be among those who perish, now, later, or whenever, I will do so “going out” saying His name and enveloping myself into Him and trusting in His will. I am at peace with and in my life. Marianne, your website has been, and continues to be, an inspiration and source of comfort. There is no church around me where I am that I am comfortable with. God has no walls, only the ones we put up. There is a plack in my home I look at every day: “If God seems far away . . . who moved?” Blessings.
Denise
hi denise
May god bless you and provide and protect you in the days and years ahead.
When a muslim told me allah was the God of Abraham.. I told him…”The false prophets of Baal also told Elijah that Baal was the God of Abraham too but Elijah knew better..”.
The test Elijah decided on to prove which God was the real God was fire coming down from Heaven…
Revelation 13-13 shows the false prophets of the beast bringing fire down from Heaven.. This means they have sucessfully convinced many that the allah beast is the real God of Abraham..
Revelation 13-13..And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
These false prophets are dubbed false prophets because they are saying the koran is God’s words…It is not, it is the lying wonder of satan….. 2 Thess. 2-9,11..
Hi Marianne,
(I suspect that this would be for James too. “I’m jumping in as requested.” lol)
You believe that as a follower of Yeshua, that when you die, your essence, be that either soul or spirit, will go to heaven. Correct?
You believe that when Yeshua died for the atonement of our sins, that this was one of the blessings that we receive from grace. Correct? This would be one of the blessings for the Church, (the Ekklesia, or assembly).
You believe that a gathering of this assembly will also take place at some undetermined time in the future where Yeshua will return in the clouds with all that are His that have died, and they and those that are still living will be resurrected. Correct?
With that then, haven’t you ever questioned as to why “the saints” that are mentioned in Revelation 6 are not in heaven after they have been killed, and are instead told, “that they should rest yet for a little season.”?
(Like maybe for the next 7 years?)
“And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held : And they cried with a loud voice, saying , How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.” Rev. 6″9-11. KJV.
Why, if they were a part of the true Church, would they not go to heaven when they died?
We know from scripture that at some point that these saints are resurrected. Revelation 20 informs us of that, and when this is accomplished the whole process is labeled as “the first resurrection”.
Yeshua being the “firstfruits”, the resurrection of those saints after his resurrection, (Matt. 27:52,53.), the true Church, Ekklesia, (or the Rapture), the 144,000, and then finally, the tribulation saints. All of these are comprised under the label of the “first resurrection”.
Not that I bake at all, but an analogy of the above could be, the eggs, the butter, the flour, the sugar and voila “the cake” or the “first resurrection”.
Any way’s, the point that I am making is that the Old Covenant had a finite time frame. It is logical then to speculate that the New Covenant will also be finite. And when its time is accomplished, the rapture of the Church will take place and now allow for the next phase of God’s overall plan of wrath to an unbelieving world to begin.
I believe, and it is my opinion, that the reason that the saints are not in heaven, and are told to rest for awhile, is because the “Age of Grace” that we are currently existing in within this New Covenant, has come and gone.
Just my thoughts.
Be Blessed.
alienated
My impression is that the slain saints under the altar are already in heaven and they are asking when God would avenge their deaths caused by those still on the earth.
I do not see why you would think people who are slain would be on earth themselves. They are dead.
Hmmm?
I guess that it would end up being a matter of ones interpretation then, and how one visualizes what it is like in heaven? These saints are the only ones that are ever told to rest in the whole book of Revelation.
Matter of fact, this verse, and in Rev. 14:13, (when referring to this same group of people) are the only times that word “rest” (Anapauo, Strong’s 373) is ever utilized in the whole book.
This is also the only group that is mentioned to be under the “altar” that is stationed in front of God before His throne in heaven as well.
Every other group in heaven are always praising God and Yeshua, yet these appear to be complaining and voicing a concern that they have for justice? (Very similar as to how the blood of Abel cried out to God.)
Abel was dead, and he was not in heaven, yet God heard him cry out from the ground.
“And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother’s blood crieth unto me from the ground.” Gen. 4:10.
We agree to disagree then, and simply have a differing of opinion. (Not like that has ever happened before with anyone else on your site) 🙂
Be Blessed
well, it sounds like they are told to wait, because there is more martyrdom to occur before god acts to punish the wicked responsible for all the deaths ( more to come).
Revelation was written ~ 90 AD was it not?
Rev.1:19. Write the things which thou HAST SEEN, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
The 7 letters to the CHURCHES – (…the things which ARE) – at 90 AD? … and for the FUTURE? … AFTER the (Things which shall be HEREAFTER) rest of the Book of Revelation?
Revelation 4:1. After this I looked, and, behold, a door [was] opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard [was] as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will show thee THINGS WHICH MUST be HEREAFTER.
umm.. I thought the Christians of this present day will be spared of the coming wrath.. That’s what the BLESSED HOPE is all about isn’t it !!
1 Thessalonians 5:9
For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.
AND that is why we (if we are still alive) WILL BE RAPTURED to meet our Lord in the air..
1 Thessalonians 4:16-18
For the Lord himself will come from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with our Lord forever. Therefore encourage each other with these words.
The word “caught up” used here is from the Original Greek “harpazo” which is translated in Latin as “raptura”.. hence the RAPTURE in English.
hi Boo
True, but we do not know how much trouble we will see before jesus comes to get us.
Think back on all the wars in history. People had to deal with danger then too, without a rapture to remove them from it.
True.. what you said.. There has been terrible times of war; WWI and WWII, then there’s also the local wars.. within the country.. civil wars, ethnic wars. Couple that with the calamities in the form of earthquakes, tsunamis etc.. And we do have many dangers that people have to deal with..
It’s just that these disasters would still pale to the ones that will come in the Tribulation. And that is the kind of wrath that we, the Christians, will be spared from as in 1 Corinthians 5:9.
hi Boo
I believe we may experience “tribulation” but not the wrath of god. It is a matter of definitions to me. Jesus said we would go through tribulations. I consider the wrath as starting from the 1st trumpet. But that is just my view.
Believers will not supper Gods wrath ,but Satan knows he has but a short time…I think he will go after the church.
hi exalthym
I would agree with that. While others have a different view, I personally consider there to be a time of tribulation in which the saints are persecuted, and then a time of wrath, that is only for the wicked. The saints would be removed before the wrath begins.
Marianne, The souls under the altar are the first of the tribulation saints who are killed. So they are waiting for all the others who will be killed as they were. They are not Ecclesia Christians as we do not have the spirit of vengeance.
hi Kenneth
I agree with that. What do you think of alienated’s view?
It seems that he thinks they are of the first resurrection?
What do you think of that?
I was trying to respond to him.
just to let everyone know, in the health care bill it talks about a medical implant device..look it up its there…I think what is best is to at least for people to hide for a short time to really get in Gods presence to hear what he says to do..when the riots and craziness happens..so if God says go here and do that you will know and if he says prepare to come home then do that. thats all I’ve got to say
My heartfelt prayer is to be able to stand and remain faithful whatever comes !
I live in Aus, we are not experiencing the same trouble as others in the world. We are very isolated here and incrediably blessed (our time is coming), I know what is going on because I choose to know. The Lord has been preparing me for the last few years and now my life is nothing like most other Christians here I know. I am not in church for the first time in 20 yrs. I know a lot of Christians who get together and the Lord is never mentioned. They are all still doing their thing (most). I am abiding, praying and I know there is a time when He will send me out. I also believe that there are Christians who prayer is “Your will be done” when we surrender totally to the Lord He will do with us as He wills. As soldiers are expected to give up their lives but no one would expect a civilian to do that. He has allowed us to choose, even though I also believe we all should die to self and carry our cross daily, not every Christian does this. Even Jesus asked “let this cup pass from me, but nevertheless not my will but Thine be done”. Whatever comes when we abide in Him, we will do exactly as He wants us to. The Lord knows the exact number of people who will be martyered. There is so much about the Lord and His Kingdom that we don’t know and the Bible isn’t clear about, so let us not contend this issues but focus on the things that we know. Let us love at all times because love never fails.
God bless you all.
Thank you for your testimony. I do believe churches are, or were, necessary. But today many seem squeamish about Jesus. My husband works at a Catholic school where prayer and Jesus, Mary, the saints, are simply ignored. Everything is about going to a Mass as if it were a good luck charm instead of communal prayer. Many protestant churches are like that with the Bible…inculcating verses and underlining them with cold eyes and unsubmissive hearts.
Reminds me of a joke on “Mr. Bean” JESUS IS COMING; LOOK BUSY!
May the Lord bless you and your country,,,would love to visit!
Dianne, and others,
Your comments are a blessing. The first chapter of Phillippians comes to mind, especially verses 27-30.
The often overlooked part of the fifth seal is that the “number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete” (rev. 6:11) Stephen was the first of these servants, whoever is the last will usher in the sixth seal and the wrath of God. If we are called to be raptured (or rescued from wrath), amen (so be it); If we are called to suffer, (martyrdom) we are told to rejoice! being raptured or suffering are not in conflict with one another, in others words believing in one does not nullify the other. This is being “in one Spirit, with one mind, striving side by side for the faith of the Gospel” (Phil. 1:27)
peace
Dru,
(Sigh)
If you will recall, I have previously stated to you that I will will no longer respond to you.
I have simply posted this to remind you of that fact.
Marianne….kudos!!! I hear ya and am encouraged. God is preparing hearts. Those who truly seek God will find the shelter of HIs wings….a place reserved for those who serve Him (God) rather than self (mammon). Serious business….Christianity!!!! The ‘souls under the altar’ speaks to that place of safety in God. Rev. 6:9 is God speaking about justice and judgement and is not about Christians demanding revenge. It is a type…a natural to reveal the spiritual. The Christian heart filled with God will always say as did Steven and as did Christ, ‘Father, forgive them. They know not what they do.’
Dianne, well said. No greater prayer than that which totally yields all things to ‘thy will be done.’
Hi Marianne,
It is not that I necessarily “think” that the Saints that are spoken of in Revelation 6:9 are a part of the “first resurrection”, (or that they are also dead and not in heaven), but that it clearly appears to be implicated as being so within scripture itself. It is a matter of allowing for scripture to interpret scripture, (rather than suggesting that the passage could be some form of metaphorical “type”.) I believe that John is describing as best as he can, what it is he is literally seeing here.
Rev. 6:9,10. again states, “And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held : And they cried with a loud voice, saying , How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?”
So clearly with Yeshua opening the First Seal, the wrath of God, or Great Tribulation, (which He refers to in Revelation 2:22. while speaking to the Church of Thyatira, and again in Revelation 3:10 to the Church of Philadelphia) has begun, and the persecution of the Saints that are left on the earth has commenced.
Rev. 6:11. continues on with, “And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.”
This time of “fulfillment” for this specific group of individuals, or Saints, does not occur within scripture until “after” the time that Yeshua returns in glory and establishes His Millenial Kingdom. Revelation 20:4-6. states after Yeshua has returned and after the angel has bound up satan for a 1000 years;
“And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the “souls” of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they “lived” and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished . “This is the first resurrection.” Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”
Interestingly, the word translated into “lived” above, (and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.), is from the transliterated Greek word “Zao” (Strong’s 2198) in which its primary definitions consist of; “to live, breathe, be among the living (not lifeless, not dead) ,to enjoy real life, to have true life and worthy of the name, active, blessed, endless in the kingdom of God.”
Zao is the word origin for the transliterated Greek “Suzao” (Strong’s 4800) which within its definition means to simply exist in the normal state of human life; ” to live together with one, of physical life on earth, to live a new life in union with Christ, i.e. dedicated to God.”
So, though not explicitly stated in black and white, the utilization of the Greek word Zao here, would imply that a resurrection has just occurred. The time of fulfillment for the Saints is now complete. There will be no more deaths subjected to those Saints that witnessed of Yeshua, and the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands.
Now logically then, since Yeshua was resurrected Himself as being the first fruits, and that at the same time another resurrection took place that is described in Matthew 27:52,53., the terminology “first resurrection” must refer to a “series” of resurrections from Yeshua to the fulfillment of the Saints.
As stated above, “Yeshua being the “firstfruits”, the resurrection of those saints after his resurrection, (Matt. 27:52,53.), the true Church, Ekklesia, (or the Rapture), the 144,000, and then finally, the tribulation saints. All of these are comprised under the label of the “first resurrection”.”
Be Blessed
so you think the saints in the 5th seal are those same saints after the tribulation during the millennial reign that have been resurrected ?
Yes.
Scripture implies that they are the same group of individuals.
Those Saints are told to rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
What is the only thing that you can think of that could thwart satan and this persecution of these Saints, that could actually stop others of their brethren to be killed as they were? I can only conclude that it is Yeshua coming in His glory to put an end to it all, and to establish His Kingdom.
Oh and just for the sake of it, (since I am here), for those that believe in a gathering together, or Rapture……
”That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance , being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed , ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.” Ephesians 10-14. KJV
This year, “The Feast of Trumpets” or “Yom Teru’ah”, falls on our September 28th. at sundown. ( Tishrei 1st and 2nd.)
“Speak unto the children of Israel, saying , In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation.” Leviticus 23:24.
Only God the Father knows.
Be Blessed.
What G-d has in store for us as individuals is anyones guess. Me, I pray to G-d the Father in Christ’s name. My prayers move me to buy more gun oil, fill up my stores, secure my house, make sure my BDU’s are good to go, and get a hair cut.
We are not suppose to start problems, but not all Christians are Amish. Second place is first loser, don’t wait for your mommie to take care of businness for you, and suffer in silence.
I hope the best for the world, but it appears the warning signs of bad weather, earthquakes, volcanoes, and the lack of love is increasing.
The moon god worshipers are going in front of the world Friday for support to get their own Nation. A Nation of terrorists. If they do not get their way, make sure your gear is squared away.
BZO, or Die!
hi Leatherneck
Maybe we should all start saying our goodbyes now, while we still have the internet. If we just have a few months or days left, just letting you know I love you in the Lord. Stay safe.
1 Corinthians 15
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”[f]; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we[g] bear the image of the heavenly man.
50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come
true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.
————————————————
Rapture (caught up) means above instant change from Body to Soul at the last mili-second of this world with human bodies.Every one has to face the Great Tribulation and force them to take ‘666’ mark either on face or the hand.
Alienated, food for thought about ‘rest’:
Alienated said, ‘These saints are the only ones that are ever told to rest in the whole book of Revelation.
Matter of fact, this verse, and in Rev. 14:13, (when referring to this same group of people) are the only times that word “rest” (Anapauo, Strong’s 373) is ever utilized in the whole book.’
‘Rest’ is described throughout the Bible as being a dwelling place …a state of being…a state of having ceased from physical and/or emotional laboror and heartache. Too, ‘rest yet a little while’ speaks to a whole Bible full of meaning and doesn’t necessarily speak to a particular event or timeframe related to tribulation or resurrection. The following verse about ‘rest’ relates very closely to context of ‘ And they cried with a loud voice, saying , How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Mt 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
Heb 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
And all the following verses throughout the Bible speaks to the reality of ‘rest’ being a dwelling place in God…a place of peaceful victory/safety…..all of which has to be considered when determining the context of ‘rest yet a little while’ and its application to the martyred saints of Revelations.
Jer 50:34 Their Redeemer is strong; the LORD of hosts is his name: he shall thoroughly plead their cause, that he may give rest to the land, and disquiet the inhabitants of Babylon.
1ch 23:25 For David said, The LORD God of Israel hath given rest unto his people, that they may dwell in Jerusalem for ever:
Ps 37:7 Rest in the LORD, and wait patiently for him: fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass.
Jer 30:10 Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the LORD; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee from afar, and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest, and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid.
Just saying…lol…food for thougth.
Alienated, I failed to include the verse I referred to with the statement ‘ The following verse about ‘rest’ and ‘avenge’ relates very closely to context of ‘ And they cried with a loud voice, saying , How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?’
Ps 94:13 That thou mayest give him rest from the days of adversity, until the pit be digged for the wicked.
Thus, the whole context of justice, judgement and safety (rest/peace) in God must be considered when discussing the ‘souls under the altar.’
Hi internet elias,
I understand the point of view that you are expressing.
However you say above, “‘Rest’ is described throughout the Bible as being a dwelling place …a state of being…a state of having ceased from physical and/or emotional laboror and heartache. Too, ‘rest yet a little while’ speaks to a whole Bible full of meaning and doesn’t necessarily speak to a particular event or timeframe related to tribulation or resurrection.”
I am sorry, but I would argue that it would not eliminate the possibility either. So I beg to disagree.
The way that scripture was translated into different world wide languages, (from its original Hebrew or Greek) was left up to a matter of interpretation of the translators themselves. And in English the definitions of any particular word, may not fully incorporate the subtleties or nuances to fully reveal what it is that is being articulated.
For example, within English the same word “rest” being utilized in the fashion of a “verb”, (as it is within the verse of Revelation 6:11) can be utilized to be meaning “to cease from work” or ” to refresh oneself to regain strength”, “placing one item upon another” or even “to remain confident in any particular given assumption” etc. etc.
On the other hand, both Hebrew and Greek will have individual and specific words to express each and every aspect of the above, so that the intention of what is being communicated will be fully understood.
The words for “rest” in Greek that would be relevant to the examples that you have provided above would be;
Matthew 11:28. – “Anapauo” Strong’s 373.
Hebrews 4:3. – “Katapausis” Strong’s 2663.
There are a total of “14” Greek words that have been simply translated into the English word “rest”.
“Epanapauomai”, “Katapauo”, “Anapausis”, “Anapauo”, “Koimesis”, “Sabbatismos”, “Anesis”, “Loipoy”, “Hesuchazo”, “Katapausis”, “Kataskenoo”, “Eirene”, “Episkenoo” and “Epiloipos”.
Each of these have their own specific definitions. The definitions of the word itself, and its surrounding content, would allow for the reader to fully understand the context, and what it is that is being said.
The Hebrew and Aramaic languages are similar. “Nuwach”, “Raga`”, “Manowach”, “Nachath”, “Sha’an”, “Margowa`”, “Yether”, “Damam”, “Mĕnuwchah”, “Chuwl”, “Shĕ’eriyth”, “Shabath”, “Dĕmiy”, “Puwgah”, “Shakab”, “Shaqat”, “Shĕ’ar” (both in Hebrew and Aramaic) etc., have also been simply translated into the English word “rest” though their definitions themselves have various meanings.
(Raga`, Nuwach, Damam, and Shaqat being utilized respectively within the Old Testament examples that you have provided above.)
Consequently then, to apply ones preconceived English definition to any given particular word, without investigating its true definition as it is expressed within the original in which it was written, would subsequently lead one into error.
The word that was translated into the English “rest” in Rev.6:11 is from the transliterated Greek “Anapauo”, (as stated above) its definitions are as follows;
* to cause or permit one to cease from any movement or labour in order to recover and collect his strength.
* to give rest, refresh, to give one’s self rest, take rest.
* to keep quiet, of calm and patient expectation.
The verse again is, “And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.”
The inclusion of μικρός χρόνος, (mikros chronos) or “little season” would imply that there is a component of a finite time frame affixed. As well, the transliterated word heōs that was translated into the English “until” would also suggest that there is an expectation of a conclusion to this time frame within the future.
If one also reads Revelation 14:13, (which as also stated above, is the only other time “Anapaou” is translated into the word “rest” within the book, and which is also referring to the same group of individuals), and apply the true definitions of the word to the verses, it is inconceivable to me, (from my perspective) how one could not understand that the correct context of “rest” that is utilized within these instances, in being anything other than an expression of anticipation to a future fulfillment, or expectation to a conclusion of a particular event?
And as stated in one of my posts above, it is my opinion that these Saints in Rev. 6:11, are not in heaven, and are instead waiting in expectation and anticipation for the victorious return of Yeshua to be resurrected.
Can’t prove it, however from my studies it leads me to this conclusion.
Be Blessed
Alienated
Marianne made a distinction between “tribulation” and “wrath”. Tribulation, refering to testing of those who are saved (which we must endure), and wrath referring to judgement and punishment of the Wicked (sixth seal and beyond). I am in agreement with Marianne on this, but your views preclude that all the seals etc, are all part of the “wrath” phase of end times. Aside from your argument that the Church is not mentioned after a certain point in revalation, (which you need not get into), what other scripture supports your view on this? In other words, believers are mentioned in the fifth seal in particular, as well as Matthew 24, which is addressed to the “Disciples” as a set of warnings (“See that no one lead YOU(disciples) astray….YOU (disciples) will hear of wars….Then they will deliver YOU (disciples) to tribulation…”) which refutes your claims.
I think you need to address this apparent contradiction, before you start trying to convince people to believe what you believe. I say this not to be contentious, but to get you to look at the assumptions which you bring to your studies. They lead you in one direction automatically (Pre trib rapture /followed by seven years of wrath which include all the seals etc.) Others have taken the opposite approach and say “there is no rapture”, which fails to take into account the numerous passages discussing the rapture. I am not trying to convince you to believe as I believe, only to get you to see things with a different set of assumptions, which will expand your understanding of these events.
btw. Where is it that the saints are waiting??(referring to your last paragraph to “I.E.”)
All saints are in Heaven; but heaven is not complete…the expectation is for Heaven’s completion and happy welcoming for all.
Personal Heaven is real, but on tiptoe for the fulfillment of the New Heavens and New Earth.
They are at rest from worry or anxiety…yet I wonder if there is any component of “sweating out the mission” for those they love here below.
Alientated, we agree…. :). I was only making the point that the souls under the altar are awaiting the fulfillment of the big Rest. Yes, their martrydom during Tribulation is definitely specific to them…to the peril of their time. The apostles/early Christian martyrs, Christians fed to the lions by Romans, today’s Chinese martyrs, and all others who have died for sake of their Christian testimonies are represented, too, by the ‘souls under the altar’ whose deaths will be avenged by God….at His return….for those of the First Resurrection (Bride/Church/Saved/Redeemed). Beautiful thing…Rest. I did a post some time ago at my site titled ‘Sabbath: A Place of Rest.’ It addresses the larger picture of ‘enter into my rest.’
Hi Internet Elias,
If time permits, I’ll try to stop by your site later on today and read your Post on “Rest”.
I would like to respond with a few comments here though first, for I don’t believe that the implications of what I have said, (or attempted to articulate), have been completely understood by anyone.
You say above, “The apostles/early Christian martyrs, Christians fed to the lions by Romans, today’s Chinese martyrs, and all others who have died for sake of their Christian testimonies are represented, too, by the ‘souls under the altar’ whose deaths will be avenged by God…at His return….for those of the First Resurrection.”
In respects to “vengeance” regarding the above individuals, I would agree fully that it will be carried out by God.
However, I do not believe that the tribulation Saints can or should be included within the rest of this group.
Please allow me to explain as to why.
It is fact that everything on Earth is finite. Not only would this include every form of physical life, and substances of atomic mass of the physical earth itself, but also that of era’s of time. For example regarding the latter, both fields of human history, and of archeology compartmentalize blocks of specific finite time periods.
This is also true Biblically as well. Just briefly, we had the beginning of Creation which was ended with God’s day of rest. We had the time of Adam in which it ended with the flood and the new beginning with Noah. We had the time of Noah to the establishment of a covenant with Abraham, (in which Jacob became Israel etc.) and ended with Moses and the giving of the Law at Sinai. We now have and are existing in the New Covenant of Yeshua and of His grace.
As with all of the preceding, this New Covenant will also be finite, and this “Age of Grace” or New Covenant will come to an end. Those that are Yeshua’s within this Covenant, have been sealed and indwelt by the Holy Spirit of truth. And I believe that 2 Thessalonians 2:6,7. is describing what must occur for the New Covenant to end and for the next phase of God’s plan to begin and manifest. That being His wrath, and the 7 years of tribulation.
This then would distinguish those Martyrs that you have stated above, from those that are the tribulation Saints, or that are “under the altar”.
(The context of 2 Thessalonians 2 is that Paul is reassuring that Church that the letter that they had received was not from him, but was a counterfeit from the Jews, and that they had not missed the “gathering together” and that neither had the “Day of the Lord” begun. Verses 6 and 7 suggest that the Holy Spirit, (or indwelt believers) must first be taken out of the way “before” the wicked is revealed. This “event” then in my opinion, is the culmination or conclusion of the New Covenant.)
It is my opinion that those that have died for the testimony of Yeshua while the New Covenant was in effect, found themselves immediately in the presence of the Lord in heaven, (as does any believer that happens to die during the New Covenant).
However, those that have died for that same testimony after the New Covenant has ceased, now have to wait and are “under the altar” until the ensuing “fulfillment” is complete. This fulfillment not only consists of the rest of their brethren to be killed as they were, but also the only possible thing that would be able to put an end to this persecution as well. And that logically could only be the glorious and victorious return of Yeshua.
Those that live, (or have lived) and believe within the New Covenant, are solely blessed by Yeshua alone.
There is nothing that we can do to add to what He has done and accomplished for us when He died on the cross for Salvation. It is solely because of Him and Him alone that we have received any of God’s blessings.
However Revelation 14:13 states something intriguing, “And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write , Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.”
(Again the word “rest” utilized here, is the Greek “Anapauo” and its definitions are posted above.)
Notice that their “works” (Ergon) do “follow” (Akoloutheo) them. This does suggest that “works” or a demontration of faith rather than grace is now required, and that these works are not “with” them, but will be justification for a later time.
What I am, and have been proposing is that, the current New Covenant of grace must come to an end before the act of God’s wrath or tribulation may begin. Yeshua’s Himself in His earthly body has already suffered all that was required of it by His death on the cross to appease the Holy justice of God. This fact has been verified throughout New Testament scripture.
Therefore because of this, it makes no sense whatsoever for His spiritual body to have to undergo any form of this Godly wrath. For if the necessity to do this were required, that necessity would in essence be saying that Yeshua’s death was somehow insufficient, and that our enduring the tribulation along with an unbelieving world are also required. This premise is actually contradictory to scripture and of God’s word.
The proposal that I have made is that these tribulation Saints do not enter into heaven after their death. They wait until the fulfillment of the tribulation, and for Yeshua’s return. The only individuals that do enter heaven upon their death are those believers that have died while the New Covenant is still in effect, or those that are specific to God’s plan. (Those being the 144,000 and the two witnesses which states in Revelation as both being “caught up”.)
Which then begs the question, “Where is the Church then?”
And it is my opinion that, (because of all of the above) the Church is taken out of the way, “gathered and caught up” so that the wicked can be revealed, prior to the “Day of the Lord” and the commencement of the tribulation.
Again I can’t prove beyond a shadow of a doubt any of this, it is just based upon my studies and my interpretation.
Be Blessed
Alienated….we are far apart in interpretation of scripture on various points. In the deepest crevice of my soul, I understand that the Church is gathered at the universally visible Second Coming in the clouds in the Sixth Seal. I understand that the living wicked left on the earth and the wicked still in their graves awaiting resurrection after the thousand years, are damned and will experience the wrath of God which is the Seventh Seal. I understand that everything in scripture about man and grace occurs before the Seventh Seal. I understand all things related to Grace for both Jew and Gentile is before the Seventh Seal. I understand that Seals One through Six surely depict the escalating turbulence and evil of the last days…by God’s permission… and are likely the clay portion of the ten toes of Daniel’s metal man….the reign of Antichrist whose darkness is destroyed by the bright return of the Stone. Had I understood your viewpoint before I would not have entered into discussions with you about endtime events. In no way was I intending to seem contentious. I share my thoughts but I don’t try to convince anyone of anything…lol.
Hopefully the title of this blog mean ‘hide yourselves’ in the shadow of the most high.
The business of a Christian is the opposite of ‘hide yourself’ in any other sense. We were called to lead the world in generosity, compassion, giving of our time…all in complete complacency in the Father’s love.
Why do so many sound like Islamists…seeing only sin all over the place? As far as their eyes reach, many see only evil. But Jesus was always looking for anything redeeming He could find in everything.
After 9/11 the stories came out about the dead… so many were secretly living lives of true unselfish love. The terrorists were duped into seeing only evil. Perhaps in the next world they know the quality of some of the people they killed.
There’s an old anecdote in the middle east about Jesus…how the disciples saw a dead dog lying in the road, decomposing. The disciples held their nose and made the usual remarks. But the Lord looked closely at the animal and corrected, “Yes. but look at how beautiful those white teeth are…so perfect.”
Of the Messiah the prophet Isaiah says, “The bruised reed He will not break, nor the smoldering wick will He put out.”
Yet in most religious websites people are mad keen to break bruised reeds and smudge out the smoldering wicks…they even want God to do it!!
Sometimes I think the Rockefellar’s are behind a lot of this…the people who want to depopulate the earth and have us think God did it.
yes, it means to hide physically to avoid being involved in dangerous events, and to hide in the Lord, for his spiritual guidance
When a policeman was shot here, my daughter called the black men who work at her restaurant and left a message, “:Somebody capped a cop…GO HOME…stay off the streets for the weekend!”
Christians will know what it’s like to be a young black man in the deep south when a cop is shot…like that? Well, hope not.
Turned out the cop didn’t die, and was fine. Thank God for all concerned!
Dearest Marianne
Our Lord asks that we pray and ask that as many souls as possible be saved in the our of punishment .So instead of fear we should feel hope and faith and earnestly ask for the salvation of our brothers .It is not going to be a pretty site at that hour .So let our kind prayers for our lost brother be fervent full of love and compassion.God bless you all.
Rosa
hi true believer
I agree with that. Above, I do not recommend hiding out of fear, but out of wisdom. But in the meantime, we should be praying for the salvation of others.
“Hide yourselves!” – I suppose it can mean different things to different people, though many here seem to “hear” in similar ways. “Take refuge.” Take refuge away from the chaos … Take refuge in our Lord – for protection, salvation, and to also act if that is His will by remaining alert to His calling.
Though some here differ on some finer points, it is refreshing, and a refuge, to come here to this website and visit with all of you.
Denise
thanks, denise, it is nice to have you here too! 🙂
Hi Marianne,
In respects to my proposal regarding the Saints that are “under the altar”, I did a search to see if there was any credible source, that was perhaps of the same opinion, and I found this commentary on Bible Gateway.
http://www.biblegateway.com/resources/commentaries/IVP-NT/Rev/Souls-Altar
Be Blessed
hi alienated
I admit I was a little lost on what you were saying. Maybe in time I will understand., and the link may help.
Thank you for this article & discussion
hi “wisdom”
I wrote this not just for others but for myself also. I had been asking how could God put the righteous through all the end time suffering before he returned, then I realized this concept. It gave me peace, and I wanted others to feel that peace also. “Hiding” in God can create a shield around us and keep us safe.
I was wondering if any of you are going through suffering of trials and tribulations? Do you seem to be being put through the fire, tested to your measure, being sifted like wheat? It is a honest question with nothing else intended, other than curiosity.. I appreciate your feedback.
Catherine,
when everything that you hold dear in this world, including family and friends, is taken away from you, it is only then that one realizes the immensity of God and his love for us. Is this suffering or is this the baptism by fire? The Lord loves those who he rebukes (disciplines) and if the holy spirit is in us, we can face it with JOY, knowing he cares for us as a father does a child. Through the course of this struggle, know that we will enter his REST (resting place), if we do not “Harden our hearts”. Read hebrews 3-4, It is a blessing, and will help you if you are going through this, as I have. Perhaps then you will understand how the apostles rejoiced when they were beaten for their faith.
God bless.
Mine is odd. I’m 64 and have an extended family living with me off and on that won’t help with the bills. I have Social Security and a part time income with my husband.
The funny part is that my Father left a good lot of money for me and my brother, but only with my Mother first. She is in a nursing home that costs $6000 a month. I feel God and my Dad are testing us this way…for my brother and I to respect our Father’s desire to take excellent care of Mother and have no negative thoughts about it. We are passing this test…but in my case it means smiling with confidence God will stretch our $2000 a month to cover a humble livelihood.
Many people in the US are trying to juggle limited funds and family ties, often with grown children who feel entitled to live like 1995. I feel like “I Love Lucy” hiding $$ and trying to trick them into paying for their own things. So, yes, between my Mother’s care and my children spending hundreds on eating out, I do feel ‘sifted like wheat’!
However, I also see the humor in this.
Rev 12 is not about Israel. I have asked you before Marianne, stop leading the people astray.
Here is the truth about Revelation 12 for I am the woman that had to live it for the glory of the heavenly Father.
http://academysounds.blogspot.com/2011/09/rev-12-further-clarification.html
Marianne when I came onto your blog, the LORD God gave me the smell of dogs.
Eliakim,
Many of us here, do in our understanding, believe that Rev. 12 is regarding Israel.
In respects to the “smell of dogs” that you believe God gave you…….
Have you thought of taking a shower?
Perhaps deodorant might be helpful?
🙂
I happen to love my German Shephard puke face. Don’t be bad mouthing dogs. They are loyal, unlike humans.
BTW, I think you are crazy, and on the government sugar tit. Is that true?
no we won’t suffer God’s wrath however that does not mean we won’t be here, All of the Apostle were martyred for their faith. there is more wrath than just God’s..1. the wrath of man 2. the wrath of satan. and besides that America’s economy can crash and we can be a third world country in one hour and not be removed…riots, martial law and a complete trashing of our rights in America can all happen before any so called pretrib rapture. The US is not exempt from any Spanking from God…
The last time I checked, we are still living in the Grace Administration. The tribulation will not begin until the church is gathered together. Therefore, Christians should not be hiding themselves but boldly preaching God’s Word.
dear Richard
While it is true we are under grace, it does not protect us from tribulation.
Even Jesus said that we as believers would suffer tribulation.
He also told his followers, not unbelievers, when they see the abomination occur, to head for the Judean hills.
The real church has been persecuted for 2000 years.
the rest will be tested as well.
We are spared from wrath, but not tribulation. it is a difference of degree.
Tribulation is brought on by man’s evil toward man, and by satan doing his work in this world.
Wrath is the response of God to mankind’s sin.
If you look above, the instruction to hide was taken from scripture.
There will come a time when the door will close, and time for talk is over.
Hi Marianne,
I pray that your Yom Kippur fast went well.
In respects to your above post, I believe that you would be referring to John 16:33 there.
“These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer ; I have overcome the world.” KJV.
Though I perhaps agree that with Yeshua making that statement, it could be understood to be meaning to suggest that “the Church” will suffer through the tribulation, it is my opinion that it is not. Why it is that I have that belief is because of a couple of reasons.
Though the word tribulation within that verse is indeed translated from the transliterated Greek, “thlipsis” (Strong’s 2347) I don’t believe that it has the same connotation as being necessarily referring to the “great tribulation.” It is my opinion that the context in which the apostle utilized thlipsis and scribed this word to express what Yeshua said, was because the word itself can also be defined as “pressure, oppression, affliction and distress.”
The context could be considered to be similar in nature to the same word being utilized within the parable of the Sower in Matthew 13.
Verses 5 and 6, “5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth: 6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.” KJV.
The word “thlipsis” was also utilized and translated as tribulation within the explanation of this parable in verse 21.
“20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; 21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.” KJV.
Though this again could indeed be understood as to be referring to strictly those during the time of the tribulation, I believe that it is encompassing much more than merely that within its context, and that Yeshua is speaking of those that hear the word, and accept it as being the truth until they are teased, berated etc. by the secular public of the world for believing in something that they themselves consider to be foolish. These then having no root in themselves, fall away from the faith. Because of that, I don’t believe that it has to do specifically in having only relevance to the time of the tribulation itself.
As well, history has clearly shown that Christians in the past have experienced all sorts of trials and afflictions, as many unfortunately still do to this very day. However, Yeshua makes a distinction between these everyday, ongoing times of trials and affliction, and that of the tribulation itself.
“20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.” Matthew 24:20,21. KJV.
And
“18 And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter. 19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.” Mark 13:18,19. KJV.
Therefore, there is a difference between the everyday tribulation that we experience on a daily basis as Christians here and now, (no matter how severe for some), and the tribulation that Yeshua speaks of here. One such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.
The history of this tribulation can not be equated to as being the same, for it has been going on now for well over 2000 years, and for theories to line up with scripture, we have to correlate this tribulation time frame within that of Daniel’s prophecy which was explained to him by the angel as being a total of seven (7) years.
It is my opinion that the true church will not be here to suffer any of the tribulation, or wrath. I believe based upon my studies, that the “age of Grace” through Yeshua will come to an end, the Church will be gathered together for they are His inheritance, the man of sin will then be revealed, and the seven (7) year time frame of the tribulation and wrath will begin.
Be Blessed
hi alienated
I think the church has suffered more than mild tribulation. When I look at seals 1-5, i see the history of the church, and current suffering in other countries, not as blessed as ours. I do not think it can get any worse than christians being thrown to the lions, or beheading in muslim countries, or starving christians in the war in Sudan or Darfur. You try to tell them that what they have experienced is only a lesser tribulation, and that they will miss a great tribulation.
this is an issue of definitions. I believe your great tribulation starts at the 7th seal, and is what I call the wrath period.
Hi Marianne,
Thanks for your reply.
I am certainly not negating the atrocities that have been experienced by Christians throughout history and that currently continue in some parts of the world today. However the seven year tribulation that Yeshua speaks of will not be in just some isolated pockets of the world, but will be worldwide.
Also if we take Him at His word, it will be a time that is so disastrous, that no like of it has happened yet, or will happen ever again. So though there are those that have died for their faith in the Lord in the past, (and today), this future tribulation will be worldwide and completely different. As well from scripture, (we know as I have stated above), that it will be for a time period of seven years, (not 2000 plus).
I also believe as I have stated before, that 2000 plus years of replacement theology has been the cause of many to misinterpret who in actuality is the “elect” that is spoken of in Matthew. Many appear to have completely forgotten about the Jewish remnant, and fail to acknowledge that the elect that is spoken of here within these passages, is referring to them and not the church.
Ultimately you and I happen to agree to disagree in respects to our personal interpretations, yet both of our ideologies may prove beneficial to others, to assist them within their understandings. May all be lead by the Spirit to receive His truth.
Be Blessed
hi alienated
Well we have different views, but the same Messianic hope.
How bad is bad is really up for interpretation.
Marianne – I don’t know if the door is closed, but I do believe the time for talk is over … or very close to it.
Wihtout trying to alienate anyone – it is only going to get worse from here. In a sense. Because, as the worst comes out, the best also comes out from those around us who understand what we are meant to do and to be.
It is a long story that most of you know anyway.
I am here and will be here . . . . until I am not. 🙂
Denise
I will bless the LORD at all times: His praise shall continually be in my mouth. My soul shall make her boast in the LORD: the humble shall hear thereof, and be glad. O magnify the LORD with me, and let us exalt his name together. I sought the LORD, and He heard me, and delivered me from all my fears. They looked unto Him, and were lightened: and their faces were not ashamed.
This poor man cried, and the LORD heard him, and saved him out of all his troubles. The angel of the LORD encampeth round about them that fear him, and delivereth them. O taste and see that the LORD is good: blessed is the man that trusteth in Him.
O fear the LORD, ye His saints: for there is no want to them that fear Him. The young lions do lack, and suffer hunger: but they that seek the LORD shall not want any good thing. Come, ye children, hearken unto me: I will teach you the fear of the LORD. What man is he that desireth life, and loveth many days, that he may see good? Keep thy tongue from evil, and thy lips from speaking guile. Depart from evil, and do good; seek peace, and pursue it.
The eyes of the LORD are upon the righteous, and His ears are open unto their cry. The face of the LORD is against them that do evil, to cut off the remembrance of them from the earth. The righteous cry, and the LORD heareth, and delivereth them out of all their troubles. The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
Many are the afflictions of the righteous: but the LORD delivereth him out of them all. He keepeth all his bones: not one of them is broken. Evil shall slay the wicked: and they that hate the righteous shall be desolate. The LORD redeemeth the soul of his servants: and none of them that trust in him shall be desolate.
Amen.
Praise be to Yeshua Ha- Mashiach the King of kings.
Be Blessed
Ooop’s
I forgot to post within the body of the above that it is Psalms 34 KJV.
I thought that it was appropriate for this topic.
Be Blessed
Yeah, well, blah, blah, blah . . . .
The time for talk is over.
If they do not see what is right in front of them……
Blessings to all.
D
I agree with this message.
I heard a man say one time (paraphrasing) “How much trail mix and goods can you carry that you have stored up as a prepper, when God tells you to leave and go somewhere? 10 lbs? 20 lbs? That’s gonna be hard to carry when you gotta go somewhere quick.Don’t people believe in the provision of God anymore?
Better to trust God than in your “chariots or horses” or your preps.
some people will move…and some will stay…..
god will provide in both situations
I agree. As long as you listen to Him you will be alright.He knows best how to take care of you.
Beautiful article. Great quotes. Wholly true.