Holy Spirit as a Person, not a thing
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Most scripture describes what the Holy Spirit does, and the fruits, and gifts of the Spirit, and so they think the Spirit only represents the power of God. Is the Spirit a person also?
First of all, all sentient beings are a spirit, either with, or without, a body of some sort.
For example, man is a spirit being. His spirit portion is more real and eternal than his body is.
The spirit actually IS the being, and the body is just a housing. So the spirit is more than just the power of a being. It is the eternal aspect and essence of the being.
There are holy and unholy (unclean) spirits.
The Holy Spirit is presented, most of the time, as an active agent of the Father and the Son. Just as the Father’s face cannot be seen by man, so also the face of the Spirit is never presented. The only face we are instructed to seek exposure to is the face of Jesus.
The closest concept of the Spirit’s appearance is the dove that came at the baptism of Jesus, and the tongues of fire that descended at Pentecost. When I google the Holy Spirit, I get mostly pictures of doves.
There are characteristics, qualities, and behaviors that spirits that identify them as more than a power in a body.
Again there are
1. Unholy or unclean spirits – demons and devils- they have specific behaviors that identify them as entities
2. Holy spirits – holy angels are entities, so what about the Holy Spirit?
3. Man’s spirit – identifies him as a person
First, we will look at the nature of the unclean spirits.
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Unclean spirits are entities, not just power of the being or body.
They speak
Mar 1:26 And when the unclean spirit had torn him, and cried with a loud voice, he came out of him.
They walk. They need to rest.
Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walks through dry places, seeking rest, and finds none.
They can be talked to. They listen. They can be commanded to leave.
Mar 5:8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, [thou] unclean spirit.
Mar 9:25 When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, [Thou] dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.
They fight
Luk 9:39 And, lo, a spirit takes him, and he suddenly cries out; and it tears him that he foams again, and bruising him hardly departs from him.
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What “being type” characteristics is described of the Holy Spirit?
He can be vexed. He can fight back. Referred to as “he” and “him”
Isa 63:10 But they rebelled, and vexed his holy Spirit: therefore he was turned to be their enemy, [and] he fought against them.
Jhn 14:17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it sees him not, neither knows him: but ye know him; for he dwells with you, and shall be in you.
“He” is a Comforter
Jhn 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Jhn 14:17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it sees him not, neither knows him: but ye know him; for he dwells with you, and shall be in you.
Jhn 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceeds from the Father, he shall testify of me:
He descends like a dove – he “arrives”
Mar 1:10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:
He guides. He hears. He speaks. He shows us things.
Jhn 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.
He bears witness
1Jo 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, [even] Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that bears witness, because the Spirit is truth.
He speaks to the churches
Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says unto the churches; He that overcomes shall not be hurt of the second death.
He can be grieved. He has feelings.
Eph 4:30 And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
Although blasphemy against the Father and Son is forgiven, blasphemy against the Spirit is not forgiven.
Jesus distinguishes the Holy Ghost as a different Person from Himself. The Spirit is treated with more sensitivity.
Mar 3:28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith so ever they shall blaspheme:
Mar 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
Mat 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy [against] the [Holy] Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
Mat 12:32 And whosoever speaks a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaks against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the [world] to come.
These scriptures suggest that the Holy Spirit is not just a thing, a power, but a divine being who acts in holiness, comforts, instructs, speaks, and witnesses for Christ. He is also sensitive, grieves easily, and cannot be blasphemed.
In our daily lives, we should spend some time getting to know this devoted personality, who reveals the wisdom of God, and His Messiah, to us.
Heaven Awaits 
The holy spirit is Jesus spirit, who is god. (the flesh is just man=son)
19For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ, ..
Phillipians 1
The Father, Jesus spirit and the Holy Spirit are one
(in my experience/opinion)
The reason why blasphemy against the holy spirit can not be forgiven is, because you can only blaspheme the holy spirit when you feel/know him!
When you blaspheme Jesus (“the man from 2000 years ago”) or the father (“the god far away in heaven”) you did not yet experience the holy spirit. But if you know (intimately) them all, and yet you mock them, you KNOW everything but yet you withstand actively the new-birth and the family of the Lord.
(my opinion)
I agree with you Silvanus.
Holy Spirit is the recognizable part of God within us, this is what connects us to God, Holy Spirit shows us perspective or contrast of unholiness and materialism from Holiness of God.
Jesus said of those who crucified him “forgive them for they know no what they do”, because people could not recognize that he was Son of God and Messiah; The same is true about the nature of The Father, Job and his friends did not comprehend the nature of God nor His actions. But, when the Holy Spirit is revealed
to a person it is always recognized.
100% agree, thats what i mean
Silvanus and Gavriel
People met Jesus (intimate opportunity) and blasphemed him. They were forgiven.
If the Holy Spirit is Jesus within us, then blasphemy against him should also be forgiven. The holy spirit is there to be intimate, just as Jesus was here in the flesh to do the same thing
I personally think that all blasphemy should be punished. This passage to me is a bit confusing. It can give the impression that blasphemy against the Father and Son is permissible, or not offensive.
The Holy Spirit “testifies” of God – so we feel and recognize God, if his Spirit is in us.
And, when this is the case, only then you are able to blaspheme the Spirit, because only than you know him. What you dont know you cant blaspheme.
That means, imho, only ultra-wicked people, who have nothing but hate in them, are able to blaspheme the Spirit.
They will never love god and are already lost. So it “doesnt matter” if this sin can be forgiven or not. My view…
Regarding the trinity doctrine… i ever thought that the trinity is common believe and that it means, that there is only one god, not different characters… just another forms of “appearences”.. hard to describe in worldly words…
would make sense, because a God has per definitonem just one specified and unchangable personality, and that would mean Jesus godly character is exactly the same as the Father’s character…
And how can we explain Phillipians 1, who talks about Jesus’ Spirit?
Messianic Evangelicals on nccg.org
say:
“….
b. The Holy Spirit is exclusively described in neuter terms in the Greek New Testament, in exclusively feminine terms in the Hebrew Old Testament, but as male and neuter terms in our English translations. …”
http://nccg.org/trinity/1-3.html
hi silvannus
I agree that classical Trinitarianism should be questioned.
The one we know is Jesus, and the Father and Spirit by the Word, and what Jesus mentions, who is the Word.
One thought I had was that the Father and spirit represent the male and female principles of god, and Jesus is the product of that spirit, OR…..could the Father and Spirit represent the male and female aspects of Jesus?
Jesus mentions the Father and Spirit as separate from him. he mentions the Father more, and his relationship with him. He only mentions that the Spirit would be ANOTHER comforter, that will come only after he leaves for heaven.
This topic of the trinity should be kept open. No matter what our view, there will be, most likely, things we still do not understand.
Seems so we will first know it when we can ask Jesus directly..
Iam torn between believing in just one deity or more gods.
“Let us make man in our image” comes to mind…
Jesus was from the beginning – John 1, and not a creation, like Jehovas witnesses want to believe.
Very interesting that you mention a female part !
Because this link i posted… its very interesting… it reads, that the Holy Spirit is the female deity (Sophia). Very interesting.
“The ancient Hebrews knew of Sophia as SHEKINAH which literally means, “the Divine Presence”. She was also known by the Israelites as the “Sabbath Queen”. Her name comes from the Hebrew word shakhan which means “to dwell”.
The Godhead consists of Father, Son and Holy Spirit, the Holy Spirit being the Shekinah or the Heavenly Mother. That the Holy Spirit, also known as Wisdom, is female is shown by the plethora of scriptures on her. ”
Can you read it and let me know what you think?
Good night =)
I think its no “coincidence” that i had my experience with the holy spirit in the same days as i begged god for WISDOM !
Makes really sense!
silvanus
well, like I said, we will know more when we get to heaven.
But, it seems like Jesus was always pointing to the Father for everything. And the Spirit points to Jesus.
So it is Spirit -> Jesus -> Father
So, in the “one diety” view, the Father would be the logical pick. He is the male principle. The spirit is like the “mom” and Jesus is like the son. But they are all divine.
in the God head view, one still would have to predominate, but the other 2 share almost as much power.
amen… it is sure a truth that the spirit side is more real than the tangible world and our carnal bodies.
i’m glad you touched on the gender of the Holy Spirit– i’ve been intending to study the scripture on it, but haven’t gotten to it. i checked the Greek of one of your NT references, and there is definitely a masculine singular pronoun used to refer to Him. at any rate, i recall our Lord saying that in the Heavenly Kingdom there will be no “marrying”… it seems that in the Spirit world, gender is … at least in our human understanding of it… meaningless. of course the gender roles are a shadow of the relationship between Bride and Groom.
have you ever wondered why solomon consistently referred to wisdom using female pronouns? it’s interesting, because if there is a default gender, it is always masculine; therefore, it’s not just random that solomon referred to wisdom in the feminine. i’ve often pondered it, but understood it not! 🙂 we do speak of a mother’s wisdom. but the Bible also speaks of a father’s wisdom. so it’s not so much “who has it,” but it’s the substance of the quality itself that is somehow feminine. 🙂 in a way, it’s even interesting to “personify” something like wisdom.
on the blasphemy subject… it is interesting to note that both the Father and the Son are often referred to as “Savior” and shown to possess abilities to forgive and act mercifully; yet, i have not (yet) found ANY scripture that shows the Holy Spirit playing the role of forgiving, pardoning, showing mercy, or “saving.” could this be why blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unforgivable? perhaps while the Son may forgive us, forgiveness would also be required from the Spirit personally, which the Spirit would not do. ??? that’s just me speculating.
but you are soooo right that the Spirit is treated differently in the scriptures. (and more sensitively, as you point out.) this is one of the problems with people inventing and labeling a doctrine (“trinity”), no matter if it’s based in scripture. see what it has done, it causes people to “flatten” the 3 persons, as if they’re much the same… while yet they are SO different. Jesus said so many times statements such as “I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me,” and “If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father,” and other related scriptures. Jesus is not accidentally forgetting to mention the Spirit in these confessions. i think the “strict” trinitarians cling to their doctrine to the point of overlooking scripture that might be very important or meaningful.
God help us all,
brother paul
hi paul
Like you, I am not sure why wisdom (Spirit) is feminine in the OT, and masculine in the NT.
Maybe it is culturally assigned, or spiritually discerned.
Maybe wisdom is seen as gentle, which is a feminine quality, for the Hebrews, but it is seen as the strength and power of God by the Greeks, and so it is masculine.
I agree that the Holy Spirit has a more limited role than the Father and Son. But what “he/she” does is still powerful.
There are statements logically not supported. Like ‘There is no God.’ Because when someone utters it it means he has a word ‘g-o-d’ in his vocabulary, and the word ‘g-o-d’ is in his consciousness. That mean a prior there is God for him. In contrast, when we ask an African native who never heard the word ‘g-o-d’ spoken in English by his fellow speaking in their own language in poorly transliteration ‘abx defkn matati god.’ (translated in English it would be ‘there is no g-o-d’). In this scenario, truly ‘there is no God’ for this man. And that statement is logically true. I hope you can get what I’m trying to say. A statement has to be made carefully to make it a logically true statement.
This applies also to the statement ‘the Holy Spirit is a person.’ It is logically insufficient, because it is same as ‘the Holy Spirit is a person, because he is a person’. Tautological. In the previous example, a logical statement (in question form) is ‘what is God?’. The question ‘Is there God’ is invalid.
Coming back again, the valid statement is not ‘is the Holy Spirit is a person, but ‘how is the Holy Spirit a person’ or ‘what is the person of Holy Spirit’. To give a valid answer requires first to have fail safe definition of ‘person’ and ‘spirit, and ‘holy’. Otherwise all the effort spending to argue for or against one’s position on both sides will be mostly circular and faulty, because both sides are passing by each other without getting to the core and finding the true answers.
I’m not going to dwell too long on this one. I’ll just mention two things before I close. Firstly, ‘person’ here is a very poor choice used in English translation of the Greek word which appeared in the Trinitarian doctrinal formulation. It is not same as the common English we use as ‘person’. If this word ‘person’, God is not a person. He is personal (meaning not belonging to ‘matter’ or ‘thought’ ‘idea’), but is supra-personal. He is certainly not a ‘person’ like a ‘human person’. To say something about goes much beyond human language can accomplish. We have to be content to use anthropomorphic device. Father, Son, are examples of anthropomorphism. Secondly, not all ‘holy spirit’ in the Greek N.T. are the Holy Spirit. However there are a few places the Holy Spirit is definitely used in a way that without acknowledging His ‘person-hood’, the text will not make a sense. Simply replace with ‘force of God’ or ‘power of God’, see how the text reads. Quite a few places it will work without disturbing what the text says, but there are examples in which the meaning and message of the text will be totally disturbed. These text one should bring out when confronting with those who are on the opposite side (wrong side, Arians, etc.). Remember that if the Holy Spirit is simply a person, the Greek would have had a suitable name comparable to ‘father’ ‘son’ not ‘spirit’.
Please do forgive me of my rambling. I have been thinking on this issue for long, but have not had a chance to put down on a paper to polish and edit well enough to present in clear and concise manner. But there is always another time, even on this message board, I believe. Hope we will have more opportunities like this. Thanks Marianne. Just to stir the pot.
hi Ounbbl
Maybe you are saying that we should first ask
“what is a person?”
very valid. I try to keep the posts short, and give short thoughts, so people (persons 🙂 ) can discuss them.
Maybe the Father and Son are known more for “who” they are, and what they say, which makes them “persons,” and the Spirit is known mostly for what He does, which makes him “less personable.”
Marianne,
You are on the same boat with me 😉 If I digress a little bit further away from ‘personableness’ of the H.S., I believe the Holy Spirit is what flows out of Father and Son in their dynamic relation of eternal love, reaching out to us, who receive and sense Him as a power to resonate our spirit.
One more thing: If the controversial expression ‘God is within you (plural)’ is to be understood differently from ‘God is among you’, which was referring to the presence of Jesus among the people when He spoke this. However, if we take the expression ‘God is in us/me’, it cannot mean anything other than ‘the Holy Spirit is within me/you’.
Marianne, I can only give my experience here. To me, the Holy Spirit is the least known person of the trinity, and probably the most important.
For many years, I was a christian, but did not really know the Holy Spirit. When I met Him and allowed Him into my heart, everything changed for me.
He is our teacher, our comforter, the one who convicts us. He makes God and Jesus more real to us, and we can really know all three through the Holy Spirit.
My christian life changed when I met the Holy Spirit.
Also, do not forget the gifts He gives to us.
Just my thoughts.
Patty
hi Patty,
Very true. I had written this after reading a booklet published by the Jehovah’s witnesses. They do not believe the Holy Spirit is a person, but just the power of God.
hi patty,
while we confess that the Holy Spirit is of infinite “importance,” we ought to be careful to assert that He may/probably be the “most important.” remember, of all creatures and “persons” and angels, there was none worthy to open the sealed book (rev.) except the Slain Lamb. add to that, Christ put Himself under the Father, so that the Father would be “all in all.”
may God help us
So glad you wrote about the Lord Holy Spirit in Hebrew called RUACH ha QODESH . He is indeed a very wonderful part of our 3 in one GOD HEAD. Blessed be the HOLY SPIRIT who was sent bY our Heavenly Father GOD, in Hebrew called YAHWEH to us after the Lord Jesus Christ, in Hebrew called YESHUA ha MASHIACH prayed to our Father in Heaven asking Him to send us the Comforter who is the Lord Holy Spirit so that He could lead us and help us as we go about the Father’s Buisness. I am so very grateful to the Lord our God that He did send Him . Praise the Lord forever and ever.
Shalom Marianne
What a marvelous topic, how I love the Holy Spirit! When I was stricken with cancer in 2006, and during my treatment I became very weak … eventually breaking my physical and mental barriers. This released my spirit to start communicating with the Holy Spirit. This lead eventually to the answering of a five year quest, e.g. finding my ‘new song’ – teaching people about the most misunderstood person presence of the Godhead, the Holy Spirit. During this period, the Holy Spirit imparted to me deep knowledge about Himself and His role in equipping the people of God (John 15:26 and 16:7-15). These revelations lead to the writing of a book ‘all in a season’ which took me 2 weeks to write (150 pages), in a weakened mental and physical state and in my second language (English). All to the glory of God (Elohim)!
The Holy Spirit revealed to me that, just like Y’shua (Jesus) and YHWH (the LORD), He has seven ‘I AM names’ too … and that He has a name – Spirit or Ghost is not a name! This I have revealed in mentioned book. The Bible introduces the Holy Spirit as a person and refers to the Spirit in the masculine. We should remember God is Spirit and all who worship (them) must worship in spirit and truth. We as humans think male vs female, black vs white, European vs. African, etc. – God understand this (human thinking and ‘arrangement’), but He is not categorized by this – He can be male and female without ‘corrupting’ His masculine side. Oswald Chambers also mentioned that the name El Shaddai, the Almighty, is interpreted as ‘Father-Mother God’ in the Hebrew mind. After studying Proverbs last week (during Sukkot), the Holy Spirit made me aware that when Solomon refers to ‘wisdom and understanding’ as a ‘she’, that it is actually a partly revelation of the Holy Spirit – he didn’t have the fullness of the Spirit yet because the Messiah was still to come! To me, the best complete description of the Holy Spirit is found in Isaiah 11:2 – the Spirit of YHWH (and/or Y’shua); the Spirit of wisdom; the Spirit of understanding; the Spirit of Counsel; the Spirit of might; the Spirit of knowledge and the Spirit of the Fear of YHWH! Therefore, I have to agree with the post of Ounbbl that the Holy Spirit can be seen as the ‘feminine’ part of the Godhead.
About the unforgivable sin of the Holy Spirit (referring to the first two posts), partly explained by Silvanus, since the Holy Spirit represents the ‘experiential’ side of God – we can feel Him in our ‘inner man’ (still feel more comfortable using the masculine, although as mentioned, He represents the feminine side of God); we should remember that by rejecting Christ (Messiah) we reject the Holy Spirit since the Holy Spirit bears testimony to Y’shua. – if you reject Y’shua, you have no Holy Spirit and no salvation. The Holy Spirit is revealed as the Seal of our Redemption and the Seal of our Adoption – read Ephesians 1:13,14 and 2 Corinthians 1:21,22 and Romans 8:15.
Lastly, I have to commend the quality of the posts regarding this topic. It is really heartening, because I could sense that we all have a real passion for the Holy Spirit – thereby revealing the truth by embracing the Spirit of Truth, the Flame of God’s Glory! God bless.
hello Dawid
I agree. I feel that the holy spirit has so much to offer, and people have him classified as a “thing.” It would be a nice post to have the 7 names of YHVH, Yeshua, and the Spirit……but I will have to look them up, unless you can provide them?
Marianne, I have emailed you a synopsis of the seven ‘I am names’ of the LORD, Jesus and Holy Spirit. You are welcome to add some of it on this post; however I don’t want to flood the blogspot with too much information! Maybe this is a topic for another post?
Jesus shows us by his baptism that the holy ghost indwells believers and is what makes or I should say restores us as sons of God..Jesus example of baptism was example for us to follow.. i.e. baptism, receiving holy ghost comforter and god then accepts us as sons of god… (because the Son of God Jesus indwells us) Jesus is the holy ghost comforter… He had to go away to send us the comforter because as man hs was not omnipresent, but as God he is.
Adam was created in God’s likeness and image but he lost this image (and god’s indwelling spirit) for mall mankind because of sin.. Genesis 3-22 verifies this… Jesus restores this spirit of God to believers..This is the indwelling Holy Ghost comforter…
Christ within , the hope of glory..
ruth
you believe, then, that the holy spirit is Jesus? then why can Jesus be blasphemed, but not the holy spirit if they are the same person? just curious…
Marianne,
One more thing, very important. Without the Holy Spirit there is no conviction of sin. Therefore, there is no salvation. That is why the unpardonable sin is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. It is also the Holy Spirit who seals us in.
Thanks for this subject.
Patty
Patty
hi Patty
true, about the holy spirit who seals us.
but it still does not explain why blaspheming Jesus is forgivable, but doing it to the holy spirit isn’t.
Marianne, I cannot answer that question. I hope someone can.
I think the reason blasphemy of the Holy Ghost comforter is unforgiveable is because Jesus foreknew that Mohammed would claim he was the comforter (which is the holy ghost)…../Islam is the broad way of Matthew 7 that leads to death and hell…If you follow Mohammed you will not be forgibven and you positively will go to hell uless you escape that death cult… and this is the reason it is unforgiveable. Mohamed was lucifer in flesh..
God is spirit. He is omnipresent… He became a man, the man Jesus.. The holy ghost is that part of god’s spirit that indwells believers…
That is the trinity…
Satan always counterfeits God…He too comes as a man… precisely why people think ‘Obama is a messiah..He is a counterfeit of the prince of peace Jesus.. His time is short…
You have it correctly quoted. It is important to see that KJV and other versions have made a big mistake when they translated as ‘God is a spirit.’ God Himself is uncountable. The One. The Being. So we cannot say our true God is “a spirit”. There may be a god which is a spirit, but not our God.
Genesis 1-2..and the SPIRIT OF GOD moved upon the face of the waters… John 4-24..GOD [is] A SPIRIT: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.
! Cr 3-16..Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the SPIRIT OF GOD dwelleth in you?
If you do not believe GOD IS SPIRIT you do not believe the Bible.. There are hundreds of verses written over a course of hundreds of years that say GOD IS SPIRIT..
The Bible further says the HOLY GHOST IS THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH.. Jesus said of Himself “I AM TRUTH”… Jesus is God.. John who knew Jesus personally said Jesus was the wORd of the BEGINNING.. and Genesis 1-1 shows us THE BEGINNING..
YHWH is Elohim (GOD), and YASHEUA is (JESUS) of Nazareth who is Hamashia the Messiah (THE CHRIST) . RUACH is (Spirit)
RUACH means Breath translated in to English is Spirit, it is what the English use for the Hebrew word Breath of God
RUACH translated (Spirit).
Kadosh translated (Holy)
Like the breeze caused by the wings of a dove the Breath of Elohim came down upon Yehshua’s Brow.
KADOSH RUACH (The Holy Spirit) descends like a Dove upon Yehshua.
ONLY ONE GOD AND ONE SAVIOUR…………..
messianic jews who insist on using hebrew proper nouns are becoming a bit nauseating. frankly, it reminds me of the early church judaizers.
all this “scholarly” focus on language cannot achieve anything practical– it merely wastes our time and potentially distracts us from Christ– the One we must keep our focus on.
if you’d like to reply to me, first read my article on the subject: http://looseassociations.wordpress.com/2009/09/21/modern-day-dogs-evil-workers-and-those-who-practice-mutilation/
may God be with us
hi loose
Some people prefer the Hebrew name Yeshua, since they are concerned that Jesus came from Isis, or some pagan construct.
I agree that we are saved by Jesus, in any language.
Hebrew traditions and festivals are nice to understand, since Jesus was the fulfillment of all of them. But true, no one should get hung up on them as being more important than salvation itself.
One of the key rules of interpretation is, Context determines meaning. If one will understand what the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost (Spirit) is, he needs only to read the story, and apply some basic rules of interpretation (common sense rules) who is speaking, and who is being spoken to. Matthew 12:22 reveals that Jesus cast a demon out of a person that was blind and dumb, and all marveled at the power of God.
Then, the Pharisees said that Jesus had Beelzebub, the prince of devils, and that Jesus cast out demons by the power of the devil. That is the context of the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost/Spirit.
Jesus said that they blasphemed the Holy Ghost by attributing the work of the Spirit of God to the spirit of the devil. So the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is just that, attributing the work of the Spirit of God to the devil, or Satan. It was done by the Christ rejecting Pharisees, who later called for His crucifixion; it was not done by believers.
As to the Holy Spirit, who and what He is:
First of all He is said to be the Spirit of God, Ge 1:2. If He is the Spirit of God, then how can He be a separate person from God; He is God’s Spirit. That means that God has a spirit, just as man, who is created in His image, has a spirit; God’s Spirit is Holy for God is Holy. Holiness is the primary attribute of God.
Secondly, if He is the Spirit of God, then we can deduce that God has a spirit; man, who is created in the image of God has a body, soul, and a spirit. God is holy, and therefore His spirit is holy, and called the Holy Spirit of God.
Thirdly, If the Bible calls the Holy Ghost/Spirit a spirit, then why don’t we believe what the Bible says, that is, that He is a spirit? not a force, not a thing, not a power, not a person (though, of course the Holy Spirit has personality, being the spirit of the person of God), but He is a spirit! I know that sometimes it is hard to accept what the Bible says, especially when we have been taught something else. But why complicate the subject when it is plain, simple, and clear?
Twenty five time in the O.T. the Holy Ghost/Spirit is called the Spirit of the LORD (Jehovah). Now if He is called the Spirit of jehovah, then that is who and what He is; the Spirit of Jehovah, the Spirit of the LORD, the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ. Notice, SPIRIT of – God, LORD, Christ, but always Spirit, always call spirit, and nothing else!
How does that saying go?, Keep it simple stupid! Don’t be afraid to believe the Bible, to take it at it’s face value. The words mean what they say, and say what they mean. When a person starts trying to interpret what the words mean, and try to read between the lines, then he starts to complicate things and get into trouble.
Another key rule of hermeneutics, the science and principles of Biblical interpretation, is comparing Scripture with Scripture.
The seed of every doctrine is found in Genesis; we need to establish the foundation of our doctrine in the O.T., then when we make the jump to the N.T. we are on a solid footing.
The New is in the Old contained; the Old is in the New explained; the New is in the Old concealed, the Old is in the New revealed.
One of the key rules of interpretation is, Context determines meaning. If one will understand what the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost (Spirit) is, he needs only to read the story, and apply some basic rules of interpretation (common sense rules) who is speaking, and who is being spoken to. Matthew 12:22 reveals that Jesus cast a demon out of a person that was blind and dumb, and all marveled at the power of God.
Then, the Pharisees said that Jesus had Beelzebub, the prince of devils, and that Jesus cast out demons by the power of the devil. That is the context of the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost/Spirit.
Jesus said that they blasphemed the Holy Ghost by attributing the work of the Spirit of God to the spirit of the devil. So the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is just that; attributing the work of the Spirit of God to the devil, or Satan. It was done by the Christ rejecting Pharisees, who later called for His crucifixion; it was not done by believers.
As to the Holy Spirit, who and what He is:
First of all He is said to be the Spirit of God, Ge 1:2. If He is the Spirit of God, then how can He be a separate person from God; He is God’s Spirit.
Secondly, if He is the Spirit of God, then we can deduce that God has a spirit; man, who is created in the image of God has a body, soul, and a spirit. God is holy, and therefore His spirit is holy, and called the Holy Spirit of God.
Thirdly, If the Bible calls the Holy Ghost/Spirit a spirit, then why don’t we believe what the Bible says, that is, that He is a spirit? not a force, not a thing, not a power, not a person (though, of course the Holy Spirit has personality, being the spirit of the person of God), but He is a spirit! I know that sometimes it is hard to accept what the Bible says, especially when we have been taught something else. But why complicate the subject when it is plain, simple, and clear?
Twenty five time in the O.T. the Holy Ghost/Spirit is called the Spirit of the LORD (Jehovah). Now if He is called the Spirit of jehovah, then that is who and what He is; the Spirit of Jehovah, the Spirit of the LORD, the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ. Notice – SPIRIT of – God, LORD, Christ, but always, Spirit, He is always call spirit, and nothing else!
How does that saying go? Keep it simple stupid! Don’t be afraid to believe the Bible, to take it at it’s face value. The words mean what they say, and say what they mean. When a person starts trying to interpret what the words mean, and try to read between the lines, then he starts to complicate things and get into trouble.
Another key rule of hermeneutics, The science and principles of Biblical interpretation, is comparing Scripture with Scripture.
The seed of every doctrine is found in Genesis; we need to establish the foundation of our doctrine in the O.T., then when we make the jump to the N.T. we are on a sure footing.
The New is in the Old contained; the Old is in the New explained; the New is in the Old concealed, the Old is in the New revealed.
hi MR
How do you define a person, if the holy spirit is not a person? To me a person is an entity with a personality.
Marianne, to me the Holy Spirit is friend, guide, comforter, teacher, and promise of much much more to come. He is the down payment on my new existence my Savior provided for me.
willohroots
he is that for me too….. 🙂
Hi M.R. Boelem,
It has to be simple, for the world is filled with simple folk,
and God made them all, and He wants them all to come to salvation,
but they are not going to make it if they insist on listening to
the “one” who confounds. The Holy Spirit is personable because it
is the means whereby “The Person”, the Father, exercises His will
and communicates His thoughts to accomplish any desired purpose.
The Holy Spirit “carries” the “mind” of the Father, so can be
considered to a be person in this respect, but not a distinct
independent “mind”. The Holy Spirit is the personification of
whatever the Father desires to accomplish. It has to be this way,
as God who Himself is a spirit, is also Sovereign,and therefore
a delegator by nature. God administers His Holy Spirit through
Jesus, who is the only way to the Father, and has been given all
authority to execute his Father’s will,as his reward for redeeming
mankind through his blood sacrifice.
Father > Son > Holy Spirit > Believer. None are equal !!!
This is how simple it is……beware of the Scholars !!!
good thoughts.
The RUACH is the Breath of God the Father. It is God’s Breath not a seperate person.
cornishevangelist
interesting debate. how would you define a “person?” Maybe, my definitions are too “human.”
Well, Christian religion uses the word person to describe the God Head, that is a heavenly person. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Ghost. The early Church did not teach that they were three persons like three Gods, as the Church does today. The teachings of Yeshua( Jesus), is and always will be that Yeshua is the Messiah, and YHWH is the one and only God, Yeshua said to His disciples that He ascends to His Father and our Father, to His God and our God. Yeshua never taught that He was actually God, but He knew that when He would return to the Father, the sheep would be scattered and His words would be changed. So, let us confess the truth, the true teaching of the Christian faith, that there is only one God, and one Messiah. There is no third person called the Holy Ghost, the breath of God is the Fathers breath.
cornishevangelist
Ok. I see your point. TO me, any “entity” with a “personality” is a person. There is only one God, YHVH, and one Messiah, who is Yeshua. The holy spirit is referred to as a “HE” not an “it,” so that is why I made this post.
High Richard,
Some good thoughts! One thing I would say in addition to what you said. We need to be careful in the formation and expression of our doctrine, not to go beyond what the Bible says. I like your ending statement, beware of scholars; scholars, and especially in systematic theology, many times go beyond what the Bible says on a given subject in their rationalizing and expounding. Exegesis is expounding, reading out, what the Scriptures are saying; this is good. Isogesis is reading in what is not really there, or what we want to see, or what we think; this is bad. The Scriptures, the Bible has to be our final authority, not our rational. I believe in the Normal, Literal, method of interpreting the Bible.
1Co 2:16* For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
This verse implies that the mind of Christ we have is referring to the Holy Spirit. It is actually a quote from Isa 40:13, Who hath directed the Spirit of the LORD, or being his counsellor hath taught Him? This verse is one of the twenty-five verses where the Holy Spirit is called the Spirit of Jehovah/LORD, which is showing and teaching us who the Holy Spirit is, the Spirit of God/Jehovah.
I believe that God communicates His thoughts to us through His written Word, and His Spirit will speak to us accordingly, through His Word.
The Noah Webster 1828 dictionary defines person: – 1. An individual human being consisting of body and soul. We apply the word to living beings only, possessed of a rational nature; the body when dead is not called a person. It is applied alike to a man, woman, or child. “A person is a thinking intelligent being,” Locke. 2. A man, woman or child considered as opposed to things, or distinct from them.
Noah Webster is called the father of American Education.
A person, man/woman, who is created in the image of God, has a body, a soul, and a spirit, according to the Bible. The spirit is one of two parts of the immaterial part of man, the soul being the other part, and the body is the material or physical part of a person, a man/woman.
There are two schools of thought among theologians; trichotomous, and dichotomous; the difference between the two is the former believes the immaterial part of man is two, soul and spirit, and the latter believes the soul and spirit are not separate, but are one. I am a trichotomous.
I believe that the Bible teaches that the Holy Ghost/Spirit is the Spirit of the living and true God; nothing more, and nothing less either. The Holy Spirit is the spirit part of God, so He would not be the whole person of God, only the Spirit of God.
Now the Holy Spirit of God has many duties, functions, etc. Marianne cited a number of them above.
The Old Testament shows God to be Spirit..Genesis 1-2 says the Spirit of God moved upon the waters. God’s Spirit is invisible.Genesis 2-7 shows that man is created in the image of God by the BREATHE of life God breathed into Adam..It is this indwelling spirit of God that caused man to be in the image of God…Man, sad to say lost this indwelling spirit of god.. Genesis 3-22 says it…
Jesus camee to restore this Spirit to man..John 20-22.. Jesus BREATHED on them and said “Receive you the holy ghost.”
Psalms says “the host of heaven is MADE by the BREATHE of God”…
It is pretty wonderful that God not only created man but died to re-create (re-make) him…Hense the prophecy of Gensis 1-26 ‘LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR OWN IMAGE”..Note this verse says MAKE.. IT does not say create… The act of creation is in the next verse Genesis 1-27…
I wonder if the “BREATHE of God” carries a personality with it…..if it is an extension of the Father Himself. Maybe when “HE” is referred to, it means the Father?
I felt a cool wind over my whole body and I was immediately filled with love and peace like I have never known …And many sealed mysteries in the Bible were immediately revealed to me… The revelations never stopped even after 35 years… Yes, the breathe of God which is God’s spirit most definately has personality…If you want to know about God’s personality look at Jesus.. He was/is God in flesh..
And our dear leader Obama is a counterfeit of Jesus the prince of peace….That means he is at war with God….He loses
What a fantastic time to be on earth and watch prophecy unfold..
John said “In the beginning was the Word and the word was god..” The BEGINNING is identified as being Genesis 1-1 which says IN THE BEGINNING God…..John knew the truth of who Jesus is..He was the voice
of Genesis 1-1 that spoke all things into existence.. JESUS IS GOD..
It is really quite awesome when you realize that the God of Genesis became a man so he could pay the penalty for sin which is death..
Jesus is the Holy Ghost comforter that indwells believers..He is omnipresent God…
Mohammed was also a counterfeit of Jesus and declared himself to be the COMFORTER.. This is the unforgiveable sin.. Islam leads to death and hell….unless they find Jesus and escape the death cult..
dear ruth, you may believe yourself to be defending the trinity doctrine, but you are not. you are defending the sabellianism heresy. look up the important difference.
did “God the Holy Spirit” descend like a dove upon “Himself(?)” who was being baptized, and then “God the Father” said to “Himself(?)” this is my beloved Son in whom i am well pleased?
so God is one person performing on a theater playing all the roles by Himself? this is ludicrous. all scripture is against it.
you must not divide the substance, to be sure, but you must not also confuse the persons.
God help us,
paul
The first mention of The Spirit is found in …
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Looking at the word, ‘without form’ in hebrew ‘tohuw’ meaning desolation – barren …
we see the Spirit of God ‘moving’ … in hebrew ‘rachaph’ meaning brooding, which is a feminine attribute, since hovering and brooding is usually associated with … ‘producing an offspring.’
Reproductive term: ‘fertilizing’.
In Psa 90:2 ‘Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou [art] God.’
brought forth= ‘then did give birth’ God gave birth to the mountains.
The word here is ‘yalad’ and ‘chuwl’ … ‘then thou did give birth from everlasting to everlasting.’
Travail – give birth, conceived.
We see this again in Isa 66:8 ‘Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? [or] shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.’
In the new testament the word is ‘rachaph’.
This word is seen only 3 times.
Once in Luk 1:35 ‘And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.’
Overshadow = ‘rachaph’, was the answer of the angel to Mary.
Another at the transfiguration in Mat 17:5 ‘While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.’
bright cloud … overshadowed = ‘rachaph’
And yet once more in Act 5:15 ‘Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid [them] on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them.’
the shadow … overshadowed = ‘ rachaph’
And so I must say that The Spirit of God has creative powers …
and He is found in the cloud …
Now think of all the times when God covered Himself with the cloud and in the darkness and He is coming again in the ‘clouds’.
So much to meditate upon and so much more to say!!
Hi Abigail,
That is quite thought provoking! By the way, I like Abigail in O.T., Nabal’s wise wife who saved him from death by David’s sword, and who later became one of David’s wives.
Ge 1:2 says the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters; vs 1 says Elohim created the heavens and the earth; Jn 1:1, a parallel vs to Ge 1:1,3, says it was the Word who was with God and was God, existing in the beginning, who created all things; Ge 2:7 says, These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens. Here it says that Jehovah Elohim, or Jehovah God created and made the heavens and earth.
I see the person of the true and living God, Father/Word/& Spirit working in all His holy and majestic being, in all His wisdom, Omniscience, and omnipotence!
May God and His Word have free course, and prevail.
Hi M.R. Boehm,
Yes I like the ‘Abigail’ of King David too!
This is my favorite words of her …
‘Behold, [let] thine handmaid [be] a servant to wash the feet of the servants of my lord.’
Paul.. read the first three words of Genesis 1-1 and the first three words of “John 1-1…These words are=IN THE BEGINNING.. Surely God didn’t forget this when John said ‘Jesus was the WORD IN THE BEGINNING’.. John knew who Jesus was…Most Christians do not know …And the trinity concept is why they don’t know..
The Bible speaks of father, son and holy ghost and we try to explain away what we don’t understand and call it a trinity..
When you realize that Jesus was sinless and he did not need baptism and realize his baptism was example for man to follow…In fact everything he did was example for men to follow.. His temptation was example for men to follow when they encounter the last temptation of Rev. 3 – 9, 10..
Even his birth was example for men… When the holy ghost came upon Mary she conceived the SON OF GOD.. We are to do like wise spiritually… Jesus baptism was the example to follow.. God shows us that when the holy Ghost indwells us he considers us as SONS OF GOD as he declared at Jesus baptism….
Read Genesis 3-22 and see that even though Adam was created in the likeness and image of God and was a son of god, he lost this sprit of God and became like the one who taught him good and evil .i.e. satan..Jesus came to restore that spirit to mankind..He is called the holy ghost comforter..There is only one God ..He is an invisible , omnipresent Spirit, He became a man…Isaiah 43 -10 verifies this..
It says ‘before me there was no god formed.. FORMED means made flesh.. I am one of the witnesses of it… Are you???
ruth, just so you know “god” is not a proper name; it is just a title “theos,” never capitalized in the greek, and is equally used to apply to false gods… the exact same word. i don’t feel like re-writing a lot of scripture i’ve already studied, so it’s here: http://looseassociations.wordpress.com/2009/08/09/trinity-doctrine/ although of course my understanding has grown since then.
may God give us His wisdom through proper interpretation of scripture.
Jesus said that after He left, the Comforter would come… that’s the reason i was confused when you said that Jesus is the Holy Spirit.
Ruth,
I like what you say! Very good! I would differ on just one point. The Holy Spirit is not Jesus per say, but Jesus’ Spirit. The Holy Ghost is called a Spirit every time He is mentioned, and nothing else. We must accept the Bible at its literal meaning as we do every form of writing, and not try to read between the lines. The Holy Spirit is called the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ in the same verse in Ro 8:9, But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
The Holy Spirit is also called the Spirit of Christ in,
1 Pe 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
There are not two Spirits of God, the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ; only one; they are one and the same.
Conclusion:
Jesus, who is Jehovah God manifest in the flesh/the Word made flesh/the brightness of God’s glory/the express image of God’s person/the image of the invisible God/in whom dwells all the fulness of the Godhead bodily; He has a Spirit like you and I, who are created in His image; that Spirit is the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ. The adjective Holy is there because God is Holy; it is His primary attribute; it isn’t the Spirit of God’s first name.
Jesus said in Jn 14 to Philip, if you have seen and heard me, you have seen and heard the father. Amen!
I know you know these things; I’m not trying to be your teacher; just expressing the words of truth from the Holy Bible, and the way God has taught them to me.
I agree with Ruths’ words except for only one concept.
God is NOT invisible.
To the human flesh eyes … yes.
But The Spirit is a body, albeit a spiritual body.
Not many have seen the face of God, because He is Spirit.
But then on the other hand Spirit is a body and God does have a face and hands and feet.
A Spiritual body is a body.
The Scripture says Jesus spoke to the masses in parables ALWAYS..But He showed the truth of these riddles to his own…
One example of this is when Jesus said Go and baptise in the NAME of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost….Peter did exactly this in Acts 2-38.. He baptised in the NAME OF JESUS..He understand what Jesus meant..
Peter knew Jesus was Father, Son and Holy Ghost…
John, Peter, even doubting Thomas knew who Jesus was…
I think the people who know who Jesus is will also know who Jesus isn’t and he is no part of Barack HUSSEIN Obama..
Not only did God himself become flesh.. but prophecy says Lucifer will also become a man…and will claim peace…I hope the Christians in Barack’s pocket wake up while there is still time..
are you (without foundation) asserting that obama is lucifer? hmm, that must be theory number 14,052,574,201 about who this “man claiming peace” will be. try not to randomly through yourself into things and decide to be dogmatic about it. just be dogmatic about scripture, and keep it there.
looseassociation…Jesus said if he did not go away the holy ghost comforter could not come.. Jesus while in flesh was not omnipresent…therefore he had to go away…Jesus said HE IS THE COMFORTER..aS GOD HE was omnipresent…At least that is how I understand it..
hi ruth, could you please provide the scripture reference to where “Jesus said that HE IS THE COMFORTOR.” it will lend credence to your statement; it will also allow us to discern whether you come to us in truth, or with a false spirit.
I guess it boils down to this…The Lord has to show you who He is and who He isn’t…The reason He doesn’t show us is because we do not let go of doctrinal lies…and accept real truth.. This mindset came with Adam’s inheritance to us…..It is a good thing God saves us by faith..
I too stumbled at Jesus being God because of the verses about the Father…But the day came I understood and I also understood many verses proving Jesus is God..
Jesus is the Son of His Father. it’s not rocket science. He said that He doesn’t do His will, but obeys His Father, and speaks the words that His Father gives Him.
if He has a “will” separate from His Father’s will, then how can He be His Father?
why did He teach us to pray to the Father in His (Jesus’) name? by your doctrine, you may as well pray to Jesus in the name of Yahweh, or pray to the Holy Spirit in the name of the Holy Spirit. these ideas are so flagrantly denied by scripture that apparently you haven’t learned yet how to read scripture. the darkness does not comprehend the light, and we will pray for you.
John 7-39..(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet [given]; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
John 17-5..And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
John 20-22.. And when he had said this, he breathed on [them], and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
Jesus shows us that his breathe is the Holy Ghost.. The Holy Ghost is the comforter..John 14-26’…
The comforter is called the spirt of truth.. Jesus said I AM TRUTH..
All men have an indwelling spritual father,, some have God as Father, some have Satan as father.. In this we are like God…at least those who God indwells..
I guess the fact I know there is only ONE GOD makes it easy for me…
The revelation that Jesus is God usually accompanies the infilling of Holy Ghost comforter..Som of the apostles seemed confused about Jesus being God till after they received the Holy Ghost.
at this time, i am unable to speak further with you (except i may touch on obama below), because you not only contradict scripture, you contradict your own confessions within a simple 5 paragraph note.
not one of those scriptures shows Jesus saying, “I am the Comforter.”
you say, “the comforter is the spirit of truth.” then you say, “Jesus is truth.” yet you cannot see the difference?
Jesus asked this question, which may be the most important question for all of us: “Who do you say that I am?” [matt 16, from mounce greek interlinear] Simon Peter answers, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.” rather than rebuke him, Jesus responds, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, because […] my Father in heaven [reavealed this to you].”
if Simon had answered incorrectly, Jesus would not have neglected to admonish him.
if this is not your answer to the same question, then your answer is wrong.
if you truly love Yahweh whom you speak much of, then you will make much of His Christ, and you will access Him THROUGH His Christ, as He is delighted and has planned. the Father calls Him “God”; so shall i, like thomas, fall at His feet and call Him “my Lord and my God.” at the same time, if the Father calls Him His “Son”, then so will i confess that He is the Son of Yahweh.
i cannot betray scripture, and will not, no matter your temptations.
i have spoken to people who defend this “trinity” to the point that they flatten the roles of the three persons; but i have also had to speak much to people who deny this “trinity” to the point that they think little of Christ, whom the Father has exalted as King of kings.
Loose, I have to agree with you on this one – nowhere in Scripture can I recall it to be written that Jesus is the Comforter. And to equate breathing on His disciples (to receive the Holy Spirit) to receive Him as Holy Spirit (with Jesus = Holy Spirit), is not based on Scripture.
Two important things we should keep in mind regarding the Holy Spirit: 1. Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit (He had the ‘fruits of the spirit’, from the very beginning, in Him during His earthly sojourn, thereby perfected in spirit, soul and body – Galatians5:22-25) and, 2. when baptized by John, He received the baptism (anointing, Spirit upon) of the Holy Spirit, thereby receiving the full arsenal of Spiritual gifts (unlike with us, this baptismal presence of the Spirit never left Jesus after Him – e.g. 1 Corinthians 12:4-11)!! This empowered and propelled Him during His earthly ministry.
These Spiritual gifts are the gifts and power He said we shall all share in (John 14:12-18, just by reading this Scripture should erase any question regarding God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit!). Receiving the first part (fruits, indwelling presence) of the Holy Spirit comes with accepting and confessing Jesus as Messiah and Savior – thereby receiving the ‘Seal of our redemption and adoption’. And when the disciples accept and acknowledge Him as Savior, just before His returning to the Father, He by gesture blew on them to receive the Holy Spirit as their Seal. They (120 disciples) furthermore received the baptism (gifts) of the Holy Spirit ten days after His ascension on Pentecost (Shavuot, Feast of Weeks), when the Holy Spirit fell like tongues of flames on their heads – with other words they then received the ‘anointing’ of the Holy Spirit. What happened after that? The disciples start to operate the in the ‘gifts’ of the Spirit (not to be confused with fruits of the Spirit). And this baptism with the Holy Spirit (for them, as for us, Acts 4:29-31 and 19:6, 11 & 12) is and was not a once off occasion – it happens whenever you experience His anointing and prompting of the Spirit, signs and wonders are to be followed (Mark 16:17,18). This baptismal power of the Holy Spirit was also what the Prophets and some of the Kings received when the Word said that “the Spirit of the LORD” came upon him.
I am sure you know the teachings of Watchmen Nee, his work on the Holy Spirit is very powerful and to be advised to be read – however, we must remember that the only book we must consume (like bread and honey … for our nourishment), is the Scripture! Just a few thoughts I wish to share. God bless
hi Dawid, i read everything in your message above, and discerned it against scripture.
amen to it. people who speak dutch understand the dutch, but they do not understand the german.
i haven’t read Watchmen Nee… possibly sometime!
and your message reminded me that “gifts of the Spirit” vs “fruits of the Spirit” would possibly make a good Bible study.
brother paul
Nee’s books Spiritual man, Spiritual Authority and the Communion of the Holy Spirit is to be commended.
God bless and Shalom (from an Afrikaans speaking person that fortunately understand English and Dutch)! Dawid
and i forgot this thing you say:
“And when he had said this, he breathed on [them], and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
Jesus shows us that his breathe is the Holy Ghost.. The Holy Ghost is the comforter..John 14-26′…”
if i pat my son on the head and say “here is a candy,” then that means that i am the candy. that is precisely the logic you are using.
if His “breath” is the Holy Ghost [somehow because He breathed on them while saying receive the Holy Ghost], then you contradict yourself by saying that “HE” is the Holy Ghost. you can’t even straighten out your nouns. so i’m gathering that according to you, He is His own breath, and His breath is His own tongue talking, and His tongue talking is the Holy Ghost, and so therefore, He is the Holy Ghost. i don’t think we need to study logic in philosophy 101 to see how much nonsense this is.
why didn’t He just spiritually pounce on them and declare that they had just received the Holy Spirit?
looseassoiations….Jesus showed us how to pray,, say OUR FATHER…We are to obey God’s will not our own.. as jesus showed us..
Praying in the name of Jesus shows we are of the BODY OF CHRIST..
aND LOOSE.. after reading your text I understand what Jesus meant when He said ” I have many things to say to you but you cannot bear them yet…””
Adam left us a horrendous inheritance.. We all became like satan in understanding good and evil as God said in Genesis 3-22…This is why we are self willed, cannot understand the scriptures and cannnot even understand each other…That is why I depend on Jesus to show me the truth about anything…
Once you realize how mistaken it is to think Jesus needed baptism (He was sinless) you may understand what I am trying to say..
is it mistaken to think that Jesus needed baptism?
then why did Jesus apparently blunder into tempting us into all error by doing something that He did not need to do, while yet referring to it as the “fulfilling of all righteousness”!?
do not think lightly on the precise words and actions of Jesus! if His baptism were left out, then “all righteousness” would not be fulfilled. if but 99.9% of righteousness were fulfilled, then Christ’s “salvation” would no longer be salvation, nor would His righteousness become our righteousness; for He Himself would not be fully righteous; He would not be the spotless Lamb.
Loose remember the serpent told the Adams ‘YOU WILL BE AS GODS”…
Jesus came to undo this mindset in man…We are meant to be SONS of God, not God…This is ONE OF THE REASONS jesus came as SON OF GOD…
loose…About Obama….The Bible says of many names, BEING INTERPRETED…ie.e Immanel being interpreted means god with us…Golgotha being interpreted means, the place of a skull.. God did this so we would undertstand names being interpreted has significance…
Barack name being interpreted means LIGHTNING……Luke 10-18.. Jesus said I beheld satan as LIGHTNING fall from Heaven…Jesus foreknew of Barack and the meaning of the name..The original Hebrew language would read this statement.. “I beheld satan as BARACK fall from high places..
This is not even the tip of the iceberg about Obama..too much to tell..
Barack is a Hebrew name meaning “Blessed.” either you believe things that people say without checking them, OR you are quite happy to blatantly lie.
Barack is written in our Old Testament 24 times, spelled as “Baruch”.
let’s check the just the first occurrence in the Bible, using a Hebrew interlinear:
Nehemiah 3:20
After him Baruch the son of Zabbai earnestly repaired the other piece, from the turning of the wall unto the door of the house of Eliashib the high priest.
Original Word: בָּרוּך
Transliteration: Baruk
pass. part. from barak
Original Word: בָּרַך
Transliteration: barak
Short Definition: to kneel, bless
don’t trust me! look it up for yourself.
Hebrew for lightning (2 Sam 22:15) looks similar (בָּזָק) and SOUNDS similar but is a different word with a different meaning (bright, lightning, cast forth, or flash).
looks to me like someone with an agenda against Barack is finding secret ways to twist things. rather than searching for TRUTH in scripture, they attempt to press their own doctrines into scripture.
if i had an agenda against a president named Levi, then i would be sure to note that if the L is placed at the back, we have the word “Evil”. that would surely whet the appetites of all who love playing games to find secret hidden mysteries (Christ said He spoke plainly in public, and the apostle said these things weren’t invented in a corner.)
Hmm, maybe since Santa can be quickly changed to Satan by rearranging two letters, maybe Jesus was referring to Santa? After all, santa is sure a distraction from our Lord. i think i could present a stronger case against santa than you could against barack. i’m not a barack fan, but that’s not a reason to search for all kinds of mysterious “proofs” to fit an ungodly agenda.
oh, tip of the iceberg… i’m guessing you’re a fan of the “Yes we can”==”Thank you Satan” backwards phenomen. my son asked if we can go to the park, and i said, “yes we can,” and he said, “you just said ‘thank you satan.'” so for the record, we’re all saying it all the time. and why can’t we listen to everything barack says backwards? maybe sometimes he says “praise the Lord” backwards? don’t be nutty, listen to what he says forwards, and it’s sufficient to show that he’s full of evil and not a Christian that he claims to be.
you’re being all gnostic. instead of just taking exactly what scripture says, you’re playing grade 7 word games with it. stop it. remember the “Bible codes”? i’m guessing you were all excited about that one too. blowing around with winds of culture instead of placing yourself firmly on the rock foundation of doing the things He taught instead of speculating about nonsense.
of course there are websites full of radical theories about obama. so there are about hitler, lady di, etc ad nauseum. pick your favorite hysteria and join that club. there’s something for everyone!!! i’m in the Bible club, ok?
i cannot keep wasting my time here. i know i don’t have the patience or the grace that miriam has. so i’ll leave you with her, ok???
but i just had to respond to a few things… i would not love you if i did not point out these things.
P.S… just for the record “bolt of lightning” in Luke 10:18 is greek “ἀστραπή”, transliterated “astrapé”.
so the following names, “BEING INTERPRETED” mean lightning:
– Astrape, Greek goddness of justice; etc.
– Astrape, age 32, on YouTube: his profile pic looks an awful lot like him the satanist LeVey!!!
– Astrape, a deviant artist who’s avatar is a bolt of lightning, and his personal quote is “What the Devil?” (http://astrape.deviantart.com/)
i could go on for a long time, but i think this type of research is your domain.
it appears that you have MUCH MORE research to do.
either that, or you could just read your Bible.
drop the foolishness.
p.s., “Astrape” on deviantArt is a young man who’s real name is “Jako,” which derives from the ancient Hebrew given name “Yaakov”, form of Jacob. Hmm, “Satan disguised as an angel of light.”
see how quickly an insane person can develop a conspiracy theory? i can randomly piece together things and convince people (like you) of just about anything i want.
Loose and Ruth
1. Since the words of Jesus were presented in Greek, not Hebrew, it is hard to say which word for lightning he really said in Hebrew.
Lightning can be a word with the consonants BRK or BDK, and the pronunciation of the BRK is NOT the same as Barak. The vowels are different.
2. remember also that Jesus first received the baptism of the holy spirit BEFORE he breathed on his disciples.
Jesus was now full of the Spirit, which had descended from above. He did not have it/this/Him before the baptism.
So technically, he breathed something/someone that was given to him by the Father in heaven.
hi marianne… as i understand, Jesus spoke in aramaic, not hebrew.
i’m concerned if we are unwittingly finding ways to bring our New Testament scripture subject to skepticism.
NT scripture was written in Greek by the original authors, of whom were inspired by the Holy Ghost, not writing their own words. this is a fundamental Christian confession, and if we lose it, our foundation starts falling apart. we can no longer use scripture to discern nor discuss things. rather we fall into a scholarly debate about words and letters and languages, fussing about what Jesus meant rather than simply reading what the apostle recorded.
this “man” will be “revealed.” a handful of people are speculating about the name of Obama… yes, PERHAPS HE IS the “satan come down as lightning…” but be careful not to dive head-long into theories. i suppose we may feel convicted to actively pursue and discern who this man is.
but when the time comes it will be clear because you have spiritual eyes, NOT because you have great cognitive skills or internet research skills.
you are right, obviously someone (the Spirit) DID go from Jesus into them when He breathed on them. but that doesn’t make Him the person He breathed, any more than i am my own breath! 🙂 (which is what ruth is trying to say.)
may God bless us,
paul
hi loose,
I am sure both Jesus and his apostles were careful what words they used.
I think the antichrist will be revealed in the near future, and then all questions will be answered about him.
Transfer of spirits – If the holy spirit, who is not me, prays THROUGH me for someone, and that person is healed, then was it my spirit that healed, or another spirit?
When we receive the holy spirit into us, he is the active agent, not us. We are empty vessels.
I can see, in the same way, the holy spirit acting THROUGH Jesus, to act on another person.
But of course, in the case of Jesus, he is also holy, so I can see where that gets confusing for people.
The name Barack has quite a history…The fallen angel who taught men astrology was named Barackiel…This names means lightning of God..This fallen angel’s name changed after his fall evidently because Solomon called him Barackon…
Mohammed’s mythical horse creature was also named Buraq. Another spelling of the same name..
The name Barak,Buraq, etc means lightning in hebrew but it means blessing in Arabic..
Mohammed was a complete couterfeit of the real messiah Jesus including his prophecied return.. Mohammed said when he returns in judgement day he would have the name he left to his offsprings.. He had no surviving sons..So he said the angel told him to name his grandson HUSSEIN..This is the name he left his offsprings and this is the name he will have when he returns..as in Barack Hussein … Farakhan and many muslims know Barack is their savior…But many Christians do not know…
Didn’t anyone even get a little suspicous when Barack came posing as as a messiah… I certainly did.. There is much more to this story… But my audience keeps throwing sticks and stones at me …sooooo
ruth
You really have no opposition as far as what obama represents. Or what Muhammed was, and still is. I saw the farrakan videos.
I think it has more to do with what hebrew word Jesus actually used when he described lightning from heaven.
ruth, did you know that another of the apostles was named “judas”? did that somehow connect him to the betrayer judas? did you know that there are evil men on this world today named “Jesus”?
discern obama by the man he is; stop fussing about linguistics.
by his words and actions, he is most certainly an evil man. (as are all.) furthermore, he most certainly has not (yet) received the gospel of salvation. but to flat declare that he is an agent of satan (based on flimsy language tools) is indeed judgment and condemnation, which Jesus forbade.
we may discern him as evil, but we may not decide that he is guilty and stop praying for him. God alone is the judge.
for sure, this man is playing a role in God’s providential arrangement of history, so far for the bad and wrong. but this is true of every king or ruler in all ages and times.
and remember, manassah was an evil king, but he changed. (rather, God changed him.)
if you lived in the days of saul of tarsus, let me say bluntly that this saul would have been far more apparently “the” man of satan than barack obama!!! yet look at the irony of God’s hand! do not make calls that are God’s calls, and might make you the fool.
i used to study islam like crazy… in some sort of “Christian duty”… to the point where i studied it more than the Bible. something’s wrong with that picture.
everything that distracts us from Christ is evil and not of God. so stop it. and that’s not “sticks and stones.” if it were possible i would break your arms to pull you out of the pit you are in. it’s the opposite of throwing stones; just think about it.
As for Luke 10-18-“I beheld satan as LIGHTNING fall from Heaven.”The next sentence says “I give you power over serpents and scorpions”..
I believe Revelations 9 is about these things.. The first verse shows a star falling from Heaven…It continues with descriptions of satan’s army being like serpents and scorpions…And then it reveals the king over this army and over hell.. He is called APOLLYON.Apollyon is another name for Apollo….Apollo was the sun god alias satan.. angel of light…Not only does Revelation 9 reveal his ascending from hell, the beast of Rev 13 also comes out of the pit…As for satan coming as a man..
Isaiah 14-16 shows this clearly..
As I understand it, blasphemy of the Holy Ghost is unforgivable because it can only be accomplished with a complete understanding of the working of the Spirit. I dont believe, as many do, that it is something that cannot occur today, neither do I believe that it is simply dying in unbelief. Within the context of the scene where Jesus makes it known it would seem that blasphemy of the Holy Ghost is having an adequate understanding of God and attributing the workings of the Spirit to the devil. As was the case when the leaders of the day said Jesus cast out the devil by the devil. What about this cannot be accomplished today? Even in the presence of indelible and irrepressible evidence of the finger of God at work, they ascribed the outcome to Satan. This I’m certain happens all the time. People, with adequate and plain understanding of who God is and what His Spirit is on earth to do dismiss the change the Spirit makes in a man as folly, devilry or fanaticism.
Per David’s comments, Jesus breathing on his disciples and telling them to receive the Spirit was simply provisional and enabled them to endure in prayer during the 10 days between his departure and the coming of the Holy Ghost at Pentecost.
Regarding the triune nature of God, I think its apparent that many people mistake “person” with “people” God is one, yet three persons; not three people. Personhood in its most basic sense consists of a will, self awareness and self actualization.
I don’t think any would be so foolish as to deny that the Father is God. Thomas in scripture calls Jesus God and Jesus never corrected him. Acts records that Ananias and Sapphira lied to God by lying to the Holy Ghost.
Loose, I think it is profound that the character of the Spirit is such that it almost seems blatant that his treatment in scripture so varies from that of the Father and Jesus. The primary role of the Spirit is to bring Glory to God; so even though the Spirit himself inspired men to write, his inspiration was almost with…for lack of a better term a pen name. How marvelous is our God! Maranatha.
Amardo,
I don’t know if you were replying to what I wrote above, about the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost; possibly. If you are, I think you misunderstood what I said, or mixed it in with what is commonly taught about the subject. I didn’t say it couldn’t happen today; I said it couldn’t be committed by a believer, one who is indwelt by the holy Ghost.
Åbout your comments on the Triune nature of God, the theological definition uses the word person (three persons), not people; I gave the dictionary definition of person, not people.
There is not one N.T. author that says that God is three persons, not one; that is not Biblical language, nor was it a doctrine of the Apostles, that the early church continued in. The terminology of much of the doctrine surrounding the Trinity is not N.T., but strictly theological, the teachings of men.
The first usage of the word Trinity, and the teaching that God is three persons, was by Tertullian, the father of Latin Theolgy (Roman Catholic Theology) about 200 A.D. So for 200 years the early church didn’t have the doctrine. As we look back 200 years seems like only a very small time period, but to put it in a better perspective, our nation is only a little over 200 years old, so a lot can happen in 200 years.
We have gone from a nation founded on Biblical and Christian principles, to becoming a Socialist nation, under the current Godless, socialist minded, money grubbing, regime.
MR
I think Amardo was talking to Ruth. 🙂
An addendum, I believe it is because of the requisite full revelation of God that the Devil and his angels cannot be forgiven. While blasphemy of the Holy Ghost is very specific blasphemy isnt just what one speaks but it is anything that resists the will of God. So people can be caused to “blaspheme” by witnessing the irresolute lifestyle of someone who is a Christian in name only. Once there was only one will in the universe; soon the cosmos will return to this state. Satan’s was a sin of pride, pride being the offspring of the blasphemy of his heart.
Matthew 24-13..But he that shall ENDURE UNTO THE END, the same shall be saved. Matthew 24 is about the last days and the false prophets, and false Christs that rise up and deceive many…Many will not endure to the end but will accept the false Gospels and false prophets and false Christs as being of God..We are in that time frame now…A lot of Christian demoniations have changed or rewritten their own bibles and do not have the faintest idea of who God really is..Many have and are following Barack like he is anointed…We live in serious days…
Many believe Islam to be a legitimate religion of God .. It isn’t.. It is a total counterfeit of God works with man..It teaches old covenant.
Mohammed was a counterfeit of the messiah Jesus ..Islam claimsd Mohammed was the comforter and use the verses of John 14-16-19 to try to prove it…..Islam says Mohammed the comforter came after Jesus…They neglect to read John 14-26 that says the comforter is the Holy Ghost..I am pretty sure the unforgiveable sin is accepting Islam as being of God when in reality it is from the fallen angels,i.e. satan…That is not to say muslims cannot be saved.. They can if they turn to Jesus…
2 Corinthians 11 -4,14 says satan transforms himself into an angel of light and when he comes he teaches antoher spirit of god, another Jesus and another gospel.. These are allah, issa and koran…IF this is not satan counterfeiting God’s works, what is???
ruth… amen to that message. paul
loose.. Jesus spoke all languages…He read men’s minds…He could not have done this unless he could understand different languages…
As for jesus being God.. Isaiah 43 -9,10,11…Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, [It is] truth.Verse 9 shows what happens when the nations are all gathered.. This mean it happens after America is established..
Verse 10… Ye [are] my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I [am] he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. WE ARE CHOSEN WITNESS , CHOSEN BY JESUS, TO WITNESS THAT GOD IS FORMED.. Formed means made flesh..Adam was FORMED..
vERSE 11.. NOTICE…GOD SAYS, I, EVEN I am the lord and beside me there is no stranger.. I, EVEN I, means the God that is speaking in Isaiah and the God that is formed as a man is God…..Now you have a choice, you can admit Jesus is the God of Isaiah 43-10 or Jesus was not the savior of mankind.. AND.. verse 10 says that you man know AND UNDERSTAND and beleive….I understand… God became a man.. as simple as that…The holy Ghost is the comforter that indwells man.. and as the apostles said CHRIST WITHIN the hope of Glory..Pray for me to be enlightened.. Then maybe the Lord will enlighten both of us..
Marianne.. luke 22-3..Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.
Read Daniel 11-32,33..There are many people who know that Barack is “antichrist” and all seem to say the same thing..namely that god revealed it to them.. as far back as 2004..I really was among the slow learners and I needed proof…
hi ruth
well, we all agree that he has the antichrist spirit, as do many other world leaders.
that was immediately apparent to me as soon as I laid eyes on him.
Let us see if he officially gets “hired” for the job. 🙂
I hear the job comes with pay – for eternity.
Ruth this news clip is for you.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=112893
Frankly I dont care who says God spoke to them. Hell is full of people who followed someone who claimed to hear from God. This doesnt make a theory any more credible and in truth makes those who name the name of Christ a little less credible. If what is spoken to a person contradicts scripture, it is of the devil.
I pray that President Obama comes to a saving knowledge of the truth. Truthfully I think people would have an easier time trying to pin the mantle of false prophet on him. Or heres an interesting proposal, maybe his only role will be in the introduction of more godlessness into this country that would make acceptance of the antichrist more likely for some.
But the simple fact is, irrespective of how we try and toy with his name, the coming lawless one is an Assyrian. Birthers have one heck of a time trying to provide evidence that sticks about him even being from another country, much less coming from Assyrian lineage.
While the many theories are tantalizing…I guess…we must only use scripture as our guide. We, the Church wont be on earth when the man of sin is revealed, so our conjecture at this point is only that. But when we resign ourselves to quackery and fringe theories to try and line up with our suppositions on end times events, we really arent any better than people who see Jesus in toast.
Conjecture, I’ll admit is fun; flimsy science is damaging.
hi amardo.
Scripture backs up the Assyrian theory. I am not sure of anyone’s lineage, after so many generations. But by his fruits, we will know him. He would have to be an enemy of Israel, to attack it. Right now, most muslim leaders fit that description. He will also invade from the north, not the west.
The bible does not say antichrist is an assyrian to my knowledge. I have been reading a little about that theory..It is somehow associated with the lion, leopard and bear….which is also associated with the beast of Rev 13. … I am not certain what these animals mean but the scripture does say God will be unto some as a lion, bear, and leopard..I think this means some will mistake the beast (also described as lion, bear, and leopard as being god..The scripture I am refering to is Hosea 13- 7, 8..
As for antichrist being an assyian I think that is in error.. John said antichrist was among them 2000 years ago..These antichrists were also those who denied Jesus was Son of God.. The pharisees denied Jesus was Son of God and killed him for saying it..John 8 shows these pharisees to be frauds and not of Isaac..there is more…
hi ruth
the concept of the messiah fighting the assyrian comes from several references.. here is one:
–
First I would like to say I love the pictures and art work on this site… Pictures are sometimes worth 1000s of words..
Has anyone considered that the seven headed dragon in Revelation 12 is the same dragon beast of Rev 13 …The last verse of chapter 12 says this dragon goes to make war with the remnant of the seed of the woman.. This war begins immediately in the nexr chapter, rev 13..
This dragon is identified as being the original serpent in the Garden of eden in Rev 12- 9…And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
As I see it the seven headed dragon is satan and his angels that are represented by the seven heads… These seven heads are called seven high places (hills)..and each high place has a king…This of course would be in reference to the ancient worship of the sun, moon and stars of Deut 4-19… which is ancient astrology theology..there is more… much more..
The assyrian theory is new to me so I am researching it..So far I have found Assyria included 4 countries…all muslim today…Formerly they worshiped a God called Ashur… He was the head of the pantheon of Assyrian gods.. ASTROLOGY GODS..Which means one thing.. These all go back to astrology worship and the fallen angels specifically Barackiel..
The symbol for this Ashur god was the same as for the apollo and other astrology gods.. It is the sun with wings extending from each side of it.. but also with a man as an archer inside the sun circle… to shoot fiery darts maybe??? Mica 5-6 mentions Nimrod… Nimrod was Noah’s son who revived the ancient worship of the sun, moon and star and host of heaven theology which is astrology.. The beginning of his and Cush’s kingdom was Babel.. Babel was astrology worship and it did begin or /I should say was reinstated in Iraq..
Mica 5 does not say the antichrist is assyrian…and I do not think that particular chapter is about today.. It was of another time in history..I will continue to research …Thanks for the imput.
Ruth this may assist in your search…. since we now have a world wonder.
A tribute to Obama, a disciple of Gandhi
V.R. Krishna Iyer
Barack Obama is no longer only an American but a world wonder with a new vision and promise of peace on earth.
I salute you, Barack Obama, for winning the Nobel Prize for Peace. By winning it you have made the White House an eighth world wonder of peace and a point of pilgrimage for humanity longing for a new century of lasting tranquility on earth.
Our human universe is a divine creation, the celestial manifestation of happy habitation for all mankind. But by the accumulation of power and aggravation of development through science and technology, and intoxicated with power, man has converted the good earth into a vast crematorium of humanity, where progress spells carnage and human rights are alien to the new generation.
If each one of us be the abode of God, it is to preserve for the maker’s project a dynamic philosophy of jubilation as against widespread destruction. The biggest power of nuclear disaster must undergo transformation by a magic of work, wealth and happiness. Such a metamorphosis is possible only if a million Mahatma Gandhis, a trillion revolutionary Jesus Christs and countless Vivekanandas and Obamas consecrate this planet. And now the biggest power on earth has produced in a decadent hemisphere and in a white country of white power an enigma in the shape of Mr. Obama.
Mr. Obama, you are no longer only an American but a world wonder.
You be the prince and make the United States a land where God trod.
Ruth, I think further study will prove helpful for you. I also think if you approach endtimes ideas, you would do well to do so with an open mind. It seems that you are so bent on Obama being the lawless one that any theory to the contrary is alien to you. The preponderance of scriptural evidence that clearly outlines the man of sin as an Assyrian is so overwhelming, one would have to be a fool to deny it.
Please allow me to cite some points from a very useful resource:
Daniel referred to the Antichrist as “the leader who will come, the little horn, the beast and the stern faced king.”
In Daniel 11, he also referred to the Antichrist as the king of the North. The king of the North and the land of the North is what Jeremiah called the territory of the Assyria and Babylon. The Assyrian Empire was conquered by the Babylonians in 626 B.C. Both the Assyrian capital of Asshur and the Babylonian capital of Babylon were located in present day Iraq, see map below.
These empires essentially comprised the same territory which included present day Turkey, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Egypt. Ezekiel refers to the Antichrist as Gog, the chief prince, from the land of Magog. The ancient land of Magog included some of the territory represented by present day Turkey, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Georgia, Armenia, Azerbajan, and Russia near the Black Sea.
Isaiah referred to the Antichrist as the Assyrian and the king of Assyria. One of Isaiah’s several prophecies on the topic tells how Israel will at first rely on the Assyrian until he beats them with the club. But, then finally they will turn to the Holy One of Israel. This description depicts the last 7 years of the Time of the End when the Antichrist will be Israel’s protector (first 3.5 years) until he attempts to wipe them out in the Great Tribulation (last 3.5 years).
Isaiah’s prophecy also says that a remnant of Israel will turn to Yahweh and be saved from the Antichrist. When Isaiah refers to the Antichrist as the Assyrian, he is indicating from where the Antichrist will come. Ancient Assyria included territories represented by present day Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Iran.
IN reference to you your inference of the Lord being the beasts from Revelation, John said that the Antichrist and his kingdom would be like a lion, a leopard and a bear. Daniel used these likenesses for the Babylonian, Media-Persian and Greek Empires. You MUST use scripture to understand and interpret scripture. The beasts identities were already outlined for us. You CANNOT start end times studies in Revelation. You must use the whole of scripture. Maranatha
thanks Amardo
that was very comprehensive.
I think we can safely pin point the Assyria to Germany.
Here I have copied and paste an explanation of sort.
The Germans refer to themselves as DEUTSCHE, and to their country as DEUTSCHLAND. Why? Let’s turn back the pages of history for the answer. The Assyrians anciently called their land “Athur” — the Indo-Germanic form of the Semitic word “Asshur” (“Encyclopedia Britannica”, article, “Mesopotamia”). Sometimes the name “Athur” was shortened simply to “Tyr” in the Indo-European tongue.Asshur or Tyr was worshipped as the god of war by all the ancient world. His name was placed on the THIRD DAY of the week — called “Tuesday” in the English-speaking world. Tuesday is Asshur’s day. Tuesday is from an old Saxon word meaning “Tiw’s day.” Tiw was the god of war of the Germanic people of Europe. Tiw, or Tiwe, was also known by the name Tyr — that is, Asshur. Tiw is another name of Asshur!
The Assyrians knew Asshur or Tyr was their ancestor. We should expect, therefore, that when they migrated to Europe they would still be known as the sons of Tyr or Tiw, that is, Asshur. And what do we find? When the Germans appeared in Europe, they claimed Tyr or Tiw as their ancestor! But what has the name “Deutsche” to do with Tiw? The modern German word “Deutsche” — as educated Germans know — is derived from the old Anglo-Saxon word Tiw. (See any thorough book on etymology and word derivations.) Whenever a German calls himself Deutsche, he is saying he is Tiw’s or Asshur’s son — an Assyrian. And when he terms his country Deutschland, he is saying Tiw’s or Asshur’s land — Assyria! Even ancient Hindu literature uses both the word “Asgras” and “Daityas” to refer to the Assyrians.”Daityas” is but a Sanskrit word for “Deutsch” — a name applied to the Assyrians over 1500 years before the birth of Christ!
Ratzinger is German.
Mr. Obama started his escalation in Germany.
It is worth it to research this area.
I think it is a possibility Assyrian in in reference to the ancient babylonian religion…as for antichrist I am amazed at how few understand …
John said MANY antichrist were among them then…John said antichrist deny that Jesus is son of god and god is father..John said antichrist will come..
The Bible shows us who the antichrist were of John’s day..They were the pseudo pharisses of John 8 and Matthew 23 that had Jesus killed because he said he was SON OF GOD…I call them pseudo pharisees because John 8 and history proves these pharisees were not of Isaac..John Hyacanus, a jewish warrior forced Esau-Ishamels descendants of Idumea to convert to judaism…Read John 8… The pseudo pharisees said they were SONS of Abrham,, but Jesus said not sons but SEED of Abraham..and children of the devil..These pharisees doctrine was the exact same doctrine as Islam today…They deny Jesus is son of god and consider it blasphemy…They profess to worship Abraham’s god, They circusize, say long prayers, wear long gowns, wash often, stone women, honor the prophets, etc..
The point being antichrist is that body of unbelievers that christ does NOT INDWELL..They are without Christ or anti christ..They are satan’s kids
there is more…
Allah was the ancient astrology moon god formerly named sin that ancient arabia worshipped..This ancient Babylonian religion merely evolved to monotheism Islam..This too was a counterfeit of gods works.. i.e. counterfeit of God declaring to Abrham that He was the true god..
I repeat….I think it is a possibility Assyrian in in reference to the ancient babylonian religion…Isaiah 14 -12 through 25 seems to prove it…
Isaiah 14-13… Lucifer says he will exalt his throne above the stars of heaven…He does this by claiming Ishamel is the chosen bloodline above Isaac who is dubbed as the stars of heaven…
Isaiah 14-16 shows that Lucifer becomes a man with a great following…
verses 19, 20 show his SEED of evildoers will be crushed underfoot..(prophecy of Genesis 3-15)..
Verse 22 God calls this whole group, lucifer and his congregation BABYLON and says he will cut off name, and remnant and son and nephew.. I think the name is allah, the remnant is islam-muslims, the son is ishamel and the nephew is esau and maybe lots descendants..
And finally Isaiah 14-25.. God calls this Babylon remanant of Lucifer and his gang Assyrian and says he will tread it underfoot..There are lots of promises about satan being trodden underfoot..Genesis 3-15… ,and god will bruise satan under our feet, and Psalms 91- 13..where we get to tread on the serpent and lion and his end day remnant the 7 headed dragon and the lion..
Assyrian could well refer to the remnant of the babylon system and the many islamic countries..for they truly are the antichrist..
Psalms 91-13 coupled with the verses, 11, 12 are absolutely astounding and are a glimple of the three temptations.. but that is another subject…
I cannot stop without saying this.. I think Isaiah 14-16 the man Lucifer was Mohammed.. The muslims are the body of anti christ,, Mohammed is/was their messiah …This is all another satanic counterfeit of God’s works.. i.e. counterfeit of the Christ and the body of Christ..
Islam profess Mohammed as the comforter.. This is the unforgiveable sin..He is also said to be the way, the truth, the light, the intercessor, the word of god, He said he ascended into heaven, descended into hell and will return in last hour..IF THIS IS NOT A COUNTERFEIT CHRIST WHAT IS??? This is lucifer saying he is god…
And now about Mohammed’s return..He said he would return with the name he left his offsprings.. that name is HUSSEIN…He said he would redistribute the wealth, He said he would be as the sunrise in the west..(like obama’s logo)…and much much more.. so much I dont remember it all..better gird up your loins.. the going might get rough…and give it up about a translation before tribulation.. we are eyeball deep in tribulation..Tribulation started 1400 years ago…for many Christians who were beheaded.Peter said the last days were equal to 1000 years each 2 peter 3-8… they began 2000 years ago.. we are in the last hour.hour of judgement.. and God will hide the elect .. but it will be right here on earth..I LOVE THIS SITE…
hi ruth
Just a question.
Mohammed did not live at the time of Isaiah.
The scripture indicated it was referring to the king of Babylon.
Do you see anything that indicated that it was not referring to the current king of Babylon, but to a future leader like Muhammed?
Marianne… Refer to Babylon of Revelation 17 and 18…This babylon system which originally was astrology worship was begun in Genesis in the Garden of Eden …Barackiel the fallen angel was the author of it..
Astrology worship was probably the first satanic counterfeit of god’s works..Read Deut 4-19…It says If you look up and see the sun, moon and stars and host of heaven….this is the forbidden worship of astrology… and I think this is precisely what was done.. The Barackiel angel, maybe more than one angel, confinced the Adams and maybe others to look at the wonder of the heavens they had created..and then of course introduced them to divinations, curses, human sacrifice, idolatry and a host of evils..This was the creation of the babylonian religion which history proves engulfed the entire world… The Babylon religion was reinstated after the flood at the tower of Babel.. It was still only astrology worship…Abraham was called out of this Babylonian system..
Islam is nothing but monotheised Babylonian religion..Of which Lucifer is and always was the king..And Marrianne.. I think maybe the prophecy of Luke 10-18 when Jesus said ‘I beheld satan as LIGHTNING fall from heaven could be about the fall of the barackiel in the garden of Eden AND ALSO ABOUT TIMES END fall…i.e. rev. 9..
.. God is not liminted about time as we are..
Sorry Marrianne.. there is just so much too it I get off topic sometimes…
But as I see it of course the king of Babylon would be satan,, but since the Barackiel is the one who invented astrology, Barackiel is still the king of the Babylonian religon whether it be 7000 years ago or today..and so much more…
Ruth
What is the scriptural basis for Barackiel? How do we know he existed, and was not a myth?
Marianne, thanks for asking that question.
Ruth, where are you getting your information?
Are you letting the Holy Spirit teach you?
You are using scripture, but adding to it. Where is it coming from?
Patty
Patty.
I was looking into it. Baraqiel (spelling different) was mentioned in the Book of Enoch.
I guess you will have to be the judge of where my information comes from….Which you will do no matter what I say.. and you are wise to react like that..It is important what we allow to enter our minds and accept as truth…
But I can only say this, I am much too dumb to uderstand all that I do without divine help..And there is more , so much more I almost can’t handle it..I understand it but to break it down in tems that others can unerstand is not a simple task…And there is so much more that I do not know it makes me feel dumb……
The Barackiel angel information comes from the Book of Enoch.. Enoch was an eyewitnesse.. He was alive when Adam and Eve lived,, Several prophets in the Bible used words from Enoch’s gospel..His books are simple and written more in a modern day style… I think this is because he lived before the confusion of languages which would most certainly influence literature…I am pretty certain that the Queen of Sheba (Ethiopia) took the books of Enoch back to Ethiopia after she visited King Solomon.. The Bible seems to verify this.. It says Solomon gave her some of his kingsdom treasures.. and these books would be among the most treasured…Ethiopia still has these books of Enoch.. they have been translated a while back.. not certain when.. The books of Encok also were found among the dead sea scrolls …I think they are the exact same books.. even though many false Christian gospels were found among the dead sea scrolls also..
Enoch said they perverted astronomy and took it as a worship ..not in these words though… He also said Barackiel was the angel who taught men astrology.. Jude wrote of Enoch and in the same breathe spoke of the fallen angels.. They really existed.. Personally I think Satan was the ruler of these rebelious angels and they all corrutped mankind…One of them taught abortion..It is interesting and informative reading..I think maybe God hid these books till the end of time when they would be relevent to events..Forgive me if I sound like a know it all… I don’t even know a thimble full …
Patty.. I am not adding to Scripture thatI am aware of…. just trying to explain some things… I would be the first to know that moving a comma in scriptures could distort the whole Bible..Jehvoah’s witness moved one comma in their attempts to prove that Jesus is not God…That would change everthing if he were not God, .. right???
Luke 23-43..And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. …
They moved the comma to after the word today,, to imply he made the statement on THAT DAY,, but did not take the thief to paradise on that day…Their reasoning is that since Jesus preached to the spirits in hell the three days of his death he could not possible take the thief to paradise… And If Jesus was only a man he could not … But it you know he was God He could be in heaven and hell at the same time..
They also inserted the little word A to try to prove he was not THE GOD..John 1.. In the beginning was the word and the word was (A) GOD..
Hmmmmm A GOD, AND HERE I thought there was only ONE GOD..
ruth
I would consider the book of Enoch scripture. I have read it.
Has any one here read ‘the first book of Adam and Eve’?
There is quite a description of ‘Satan’ in that book.
He is not portrayed at all as a fallen angel but as a serpent and a beast.
Here is a link to this book.
http://www.zyworld.com/cosmiccreeper/OTpseudigigrapha/1adam-eve.htm
I have read it and cried throughout most of it … because of the description of The Love of God for Adam and Eve.
Absolutely beautiful and fascinating.
You also see how very much innocent Adam and Eve are and how much they need God.
I personally can’t say enough about those ancient scriptures!!
Has any one here read the ancient script title ‘The first Book of Adam and Eve’?
Beautifully written and with a good description of Satan.
He is not portrayed as an angel … but as a beast, as a serpent.
I love that book and every time I’ve read it I’ve cried, simply beautiful and fascinating!
Here is a link to this text …
http://www.zyworld.com/cosmiccreeper/OTpseudigigrapha/1adam-eve.htm
We can see how innocent Adam and Eve truly were when they found themselves out of the Garden.
But most amazing is The Love of God towards them!!!
Incredible and easily read.
I can’t speak enough about the beauty of this ancient composition!!
Marianne it’s now twice that I’ve tried to submit something and I just can’t.
Please help!
abigail
They got held up in spam….because of links in the text. that happens to everyone. When that happens, just wait. I will see you in spam, and take you out.
Thanks Marianne, but I’ve used a different link for my submission and it worked.
how long is the adam and eve text in pages?
3 pages and you will love every word.
Now I’ll try again.
This book was found in Ethiopia and is titled ‘The first Book of Adam and Eve.’
http://www.angelfire.com/yt3/mxx/1stAdam.htm
Hopefully this will work this time!
I have read this text a few times and every time I’ve cried.
Amazingly beautiful!
It portrays Satan as a beast as a serpent and not as an angel.
The innocence of Adam and Eve is extraordinaire in this script as they find themselves out of the garden.
What is so touching is The Love of God towards Adam and Eve.
A must read!! It’s comprehensive structure is exquisitely submitted in the most touching piece of literature I’ve ever read.
Enjoy this early work of the story of Man. 🙂
Contribution from Ariadne via email, regarding Holy Spirit as a person.
here is a link to all my studies on the Holy Spirit, a person.
http://imssdarm.wordpress.com/category/the-godhead/
Regards
Ariadne
http://www.imssdarm.wordpress.com – MY BLOG!
http://www.imssdarm-au.org/audio/ – LISTEN TO SERMONS ONLINE!
http://www.scribd.com/groups/groups/5348004 – DOWNLOAD SERMONS IN WORD FORMAT!
this is a very well written article.
I do not think I would rely on men’s teaching if I wanted to know who God is… After all man became like satan in understanding what is good and what is evil.. God said it in Genesis 3-22..If I wanted to know who God is and the mystery of the God head I would ask god to show me..and he did….
I promise you satan has always upsurped God and claimed he is god.. like the baal god of the o.t. ..He is still disfiguring the meaning of Scripture to keep people from knowing who God is..
Correction Ruth …
Satan may think he usurps the Power of God but how ridiculous is that?
He is a liar.
My beloved and brilliant sister stumbled on who God is…She was raised to believe Jesus was God , but she did not understand about the Father, and the holy ghost, so when she was presented with a Catholic trinity doctrine , she accepted it…But only for a short while.. She then deceided God would not hide his identity in a mystery called trinity sooooo when Jehovahs’s witnesses presented her with the devilish doctrine of 2 gods and an active force called holy ghost she bought it hook line and sinker..I was powerless to help her ..I watched as she was drained of God’s spirit because of the lies she was believing and I watched as her entire life was turned into hell on earth..I never ceased to pray for her and before her death we reunited and I believe her heart changed…
Abigel.. read again please.. I did not say satan usurps the POWER of god… I said he usurps god’s idenity and then gave the example of the baal god..Satan is still trying to steal God’s idenity…This is his last chance to try to prove he is God.. He does not win… and He will be put away….Revelations 13.. and the temptation of Jesus… FALL DOWN and worship me as the GOD OF ABRHAM and I will give you the world…sounds like islam to me
No offense, Ruth 🙂
Satan cannot usurp anything that belongs to Christ, nor to The Father.
No one will pluck you out of the Fathers’ Hand nor out of The Hand of Christ.
Satan cannot usurp The identity of God …
He may think that way but even there he knows better.
Now Man may be deceived by Satan and are and were.
But The Kingdom belongs to God.
I think it was just a language mistake on your part and that is why I placed a correction.
No offense intended and I think what you are trying to say is valid.
With Satan we are always back to the garden, and he knows his time is short.
Iam amazed and humbled about how many wise men and woman have found to this page and contributing their thoughts.
I think, it has been shown that Scripture is clearly about the Holy Ghost being Y’shuas spirit.
What is a spirit? A spirit is the Character and Personality of a living being, seperated from the (dead) flesh.
The terms Father and Son are only referred to God, who is, Yahweh, without flesh and Yahweh in the flesh, who saves (=Y’shua). There is no other distinction, in my opinion.
Isnt it breathtaking to think about that the creator “visited” mankind so that he can be touched and as living example how we ought to live, and than he let himself be MURDERED by his own creation??
So, when Y’shua’s/Father’s spirit is in us, then TWO characters, hearts, are in ourselves!
Ruth, last week i think HE revealed to me how Islam and Catholicism are connected.
I thought before they are rivals, but they are not!! (As Y’shua said, the evil is one)
I posted this in another blog here:
“[In response to Liza]
Liza, you are so right.
The Leaders of the House of Israel are USA and Great Britain (Manasseh and Ephraim).
The name of Isaac is placed on the Saacsons (Saxons).
Now one can understand who is the “Potter’s clay” in Daniels statue about the world governments:
In scripture the Potter’s clay is defined as the House of Israel.
Together with the other part: “Iron”, defined as Rome, they are ruling the world, and will form at the END of their ruling period (toes) 10 nations, which will hand over their power to the beast.
I believe, one part of the Mystery (=Secret) harlot babylon is the current (western) economic system, based on debt-money and compund interest, which was invented in ancient Babylon and leads automatically to destruction and enslavement.
The people who control this system, the private central bankers, are the Illuminati, Vatican Banker.
Together with the esoteric/Spiritual Part of the harlot, Catholicism, they control the world. Catholicism is Baal-Worship, origin ..Babylon.
In fact, Islams roots are also lying in pagan babylonian Baal worship, EXACTLY the same as Catholicism and High-Level Freemasonry.
Rome set up Islam to make war against the true new-born christians in all that time, over the world.
The INNER core, the high levels of Islam, Freemasonry are privy to Lucifers plans.
The Ayathollas KNOW they are serving the Vatican and Lucifer.
(It was recently revealed that even M. Ahmadinedjad is a descendant of Judah/House of Israel.)
Just one example: Islam is also worshipping “Mary”, who is no one else than Isis, the female part of Lucifer.
The goal is and has been ever the same, to eliminate true christians and the gospel.
I urge everyone to watch this excellent and great lecture of Walter Veith:
He provides in an very interesting way the information i needed to connect all the dots and put away all [most of 🙂 ] my question marks!
Really Must See.”
How do you all see the role of the luciferian New-Age and their (false) Messiah Maitreya? My guess is, that THIS will be the core of the one-world-religion. Islam and Catholicism, as all other religions like Hinduism (which is actually already Luciferian), will be merged.
To qoute you, Ruth:
“The symbol for this Ashur god was the same as for the apollo and other astrology gods.. It is the sun with wings extending from each side of it.. but also with a man as an archer inside the sun circle…”
This is a description of Nibiru!!
I think in month we will see Nibiru/Wormwood when they stop hiding Nibiru behind their cloud seeding through Barium-Chemtrailing (thats what they are doing here in germany at least).
Nibiru, their “god”, is what the New-Ager officially are waiting for, going into the Age of Aquarius.
Benjamin Creme says:
(about) “When Venus will disappear a new star will appear, which heralds the advent of Maitreya”
I recommend the youtube videos “Constance Cumbey discovering the New-Age” (!!) and “They are misleading you”
Iam very thankful to all here, and a special thank you to you Ruth! All Glory to our living God!
Oha, re my first sentence: i checked in my dictionary what “amazed” means.. i didnt mean that.. i just meant iam pleased.. no arrogance at all intended!
Dear Sylvanus,
You make me smile. 🙂
I am so glad that you know ‘the evil is one.’
Hi Abigail, at least /that/ i know –
i may be wrong with the other theories..
Good to see you being back – and smiling 🙂
You are the cause of my smile Sylvanus.
On another topic very quickly here … Nov. 1 is fast approaching and I am concerned about this vaccine.
How is it in your country?
Well, it came out now that the German Government and the Military gets vaccines without Adjuvants like the toxic Mercury (Thiomersal) or Squalene… Need one more to know?
There is even now further growing rumor that they would contain Nanochips, but this is just rumor at the moment.
http://www.cuttingedge.org/newsletters/newsalert.htm
Some Politicians say “Its a bioweapon”.
But i wonder, why the elite-owned Media “Der Spiegel” broke this story.
More about the newest on deadly vaccines on
http://www.theflucase.com (Jane Burgermeister’s page), http://www.prisonplanet.com .
One is for sure, a real Pandemic will bring about Martial Law in every country and the planned UN/WHO dictatorships (de facto already in place since Level 6)… and the massgraves they are digging are not without purpose. Rev. and Matt. 24 tells about pestilences and beasts, killing 2 bn people.
Did you hear about Lord Monckton’s speech about Obama signing the UN Climate Change Treaty, which will allegedly bring global Governance:
“At the 2009 United Nations Climate Change Conference in Copenhagen, this December, weeks away, a treaty will be signed. Your president will sign it. Most of the third world countries will sign it, because they think they’re going to get money out of it. Most of the left-wing regime from the European Union will rubber stamp it. Virtually nobody won’t sign it.
I read that treaty. And what it says is this, that a world government is going to be created. The word “government” actually appears as the first of three purposes of the new entity. The second purpose is the transfer of wealth from the countries of the West to third world countries, in satisfication of what is called, coyly, “climate debt” – because we’ve been burning CO2 and they haven’t. We’ve been screwing up the climate and they haven’t. And the third purpose of this new entity, this government, is enforcement.” http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/10/16/obama-poised-to-cede-us-sovereignty-in-copenhagen-claims-british-lord-monckton/
Maybe President O’s sovereignty should be revoked as well.
Sylvanus …
Yes I know about the treaty … I’ve posted a link to the video on this site under Global warming … I think.
I am also informed that the point of the needle contains a chip.
Strange days are coming.
Lets’ enjoy the few remaining days with thanksgiving.
Had a visit a few days ago …
He told me …
‘All their faces will gather darkness …
Their faces will be to the earth …
The mountains will rise up …
There will be a lot of fear …
A lot of pain … A lot of sorrow …
And then he said …
“Give thanks to The Lord!”
Here is a video of a recent story of a victim of a flu vaccine.
Not the H1N1.
Eye on war is a good channel to keep up with the latest news.
I would not be a bit surprised, if this UN treaty is
THE “covenant with many”…..
And this is the beginning of the end of the babylonian economic System:
“Russia and Iran Now OFFICIALLY Talking of Dumping Dollar for International Trade”
http://www.georgewashington2.blogspot.com/2009/10/china-russia-and-iran-now-officially.html
Sylvanus …
I’ve just read the Spiegle article. Special wine for the elite.
In mid 90’s there were a group in Alaska who foretold this.
At the time I was trying to access a ‘ozone air purifier’.
Since I’ve lost contact with this group of well informed people.
But I would not mind having such an air purifier today.
Apparently germs and bacteria of all sorts cannot live in a well oxygenated
atmosphere. Neither can microbes nor fungi etc.
I believe if my memory serves me right it was Germany that made this discovery.
Either way … ozone is easily created by electricity.
And it does not cost much. 🙂
About the covenant with many in Daniel 9-27 I think maybe this covenant is the testament words of koran..The reason I think this is because first the words testament and covenant are interchangeable…and because the two covenants God gave to mankind both were written into books called testaments.. Both covenants were sealed with blood, Moses covenant was sealed with blood of oxen.. Jesus bood sealed new covenant testament…
Exodus 24-7.. speaks of the book of the covenant…….And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient..
Of course satan in his efforts to usurp god’s idenity would also bring a covenant testament in a book and seal it with blood… the blood of innocents….Mohammed was the what christins call antichrist,, he is the head, muslims are the body of this antichrist spirit.. Mohammed promised to return in judgement hour and would have the name HUSSEIN..
The MANY that receive this covenant become many antichrist alias the MANY false prophets.. 2 John 1-7 For MANY deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
But I do not understand the time frame of one week.. etc.
Daniel 12-11…And from the time [that] the daily [sacrifice] shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, [there shall be] a thousand two hundred and ninety days.
Jesus and his words (the gospel) are the daily sacrifice..He is the bread of life and the sacrifice…GIVE US THIS DAY OUR DAILY BREAD…
After the daily sacrifice is removed the abomination that makes desolate will be set up…This abomination makes one desolate of Christ because it is all lies…once one accepts it they lose god’s spirit and become deolate..
Jesus spoke of these lies that make one desolate in Matthew 24- 14,15 ; First he warned of the false Christs, and false prophets that would deceive many and then he speaks of their gospel..24-14,15.And this gospel of the kingdom (koran covenant testament) shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
The Bible says Christ Gospel was preached in all the world…The Gospel spoken of in Matthew 24-14 is not Christ’s gospel…
Zech 5-1-3 also speaks of this gospel that is preached in all the world.It is called a curse and it also makes you desolate..
Zech. 5-1, 3.. Then I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a flying roll. A ROLL IS A BOOK….
V. 3..Then said he unto me, This [is] the curse that goeth forth over the face of the whole earth: for every one that stealeth shall be cut off [as] on this side according to it; and every one that sweareth shall be cut off [as] on that side according to it. v.4. I will bring it forth, saith the LORD of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the thief, and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by my name: and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof.
Now if you want to see the angel of light with this gospel read Revelation 10…Bear in mind this angel is not Jesus, he is a counterfeit of messiah and he is a liar and his little bok is a false gsoepl… Renenber what
Paul said.. “Though we or an angels from heaven preach any other gospel, let him be accursed.. there is more…
Is part 2 of “The Book of Adam and Eve” also available?… DavWms
Here is part 2 of ‘The book of Adam and Eve’ It has 22 short chapters.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/fbe/fbe085.htm
and then spills into the book of Enoch.
I hope you can access this link 🙂
The books of Adam and Eve were written around the same time as were the false gospels of Mary, Judas, Barnabus, John, ..These were all written by Gnostics 200 years after Jesus died..I believe most of these were in the dead sea find..
How do you know that Adam and Eve, Mary, Judas, Barnabus, John, are false gospels. How do you know that they were written by Gnostics 200 years after Jesus, do you believe all that man has said to you, isn’t there a element of truth in all things. That Mary one is brillant I tell you !
cornishevangelist
A false gospel is identified by its contents and its contradiction of confirmed scripture.
For example, the gospel of Judas claims that Jesus conspired with Judas to betray him. Jesus is then capable of deceit.
For more about gnostics and their negative view of YHVH, and Judas see here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_Judas
Of course, “carbon dating” is conveniently fixed so that the writings occur soon after the time of Christ.
–
you think the gnostic gospels are true? Why?
There is an element of truth in all things but not all things are true.
And behold a certain woman of Magdala, who was reputed to be a sinner, was in the city, and when she knew that Iesus sat at meat in the Pharisee’s house, she brought an Alabaster box of ointment, and stood at his feet behind him, weeping, and washed His feet with tears, and did wipe them with the hairs of her head and kissed his feet, and anointed them with ointment.
Excerpt taken from ‘the gospel of the twelve’ … lection 11:2
Jesus said that wherever the gospel is preached this act will be mentioned.
The Lord must have looked forward in time and seen this day , because ….
Now I will tell you a secret …
This was the anointing of The King and is the anointing of The King and will forever be the anointing of The King.
Unless you do the same before Him you have No Lord and have No King.
And this is The Bride …
The experts have determined that those gospels of judas, john, etc. etc are fake and were written many years after the apostles died and ARE beleived to have been written by the Gnostics…
The actual doctrine of Gnostics is so far from truth no sane person could beleive it..I am certain the doctrine of Gnosticism are doctrines of demons.. THey are mind riping lies..
They portray god as a creature with a rooster’s head, women’s brests, and root like legs that are snakes with heads..This creature looks like the baphomet..This image was on tokens found in with the dead sea scrolls.. Look up ABRAXAS…
The dead sea scrolls did have some true books among them.. The old testament and the books of Enoch apear to be authentic..
Who are the experts ? Ruth the doctrine of Gnosticism are doctrines of demons yes this is true but they still contain truth for God’s truth is hidden in them.
cornishevangelist
But if the pure truth is available, why bother with polluted text, full of half truths and lies, requiring effort to sort through it all, to find one nugget of truth, that could be found already in the bible?
Many things are hidden and demands to be sought after.
Even in the The Bible there are pearls yet uncovered.
cornish.. If you want names, etc of the experts who evaluate and piece together the dead sea scrolls, look it up on line..
I do agree one can glean truth from satans doctrines…The Bible says God will crush leviathan’s head and give him to be meat for his people inhabiting the wilderness.But bear in mind this verse says MEAT…and not all can eat spiritual meat but milk only..
Isaiah 11-18..And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice’ den. The cockatrice is more than likely the creature gnostics deem to be god.. the ABRAXAS..notice the above scripture says THE WEANED CHILD.. This means one who is weaned and can eat meat can also put his hand on the cockatrice den…
My word, if we spent half as much time studying scripture as we do works of mysticism and half-cocked theology, how powerful the body of Christ would be. I’ve read with a certain disdain some of the comments on this post and while people are entitled to their beliefs and their expressions of those beliefs, there’s been quite a bit of flat out error and heretical ideas.
As Marianne has already pointed out, apocryphal works werent included in the canon of scripture because they a) directly contradict portions of scripture or b) (as I believe is the case in the book of Enoch, a book Jude cites, They tend to take attention away from the central message of scripture: Man is fallen, irreparably and hopelessly damned in his sins. Jesus, the eternal Son of God became a man to satisfy the infinite penalty for sin against an infinite God. Only an infinite being could do so, hence, Christ.
Further, if an interpretation of scripture contradicts other portions of scripture, it is heresy. Jesus said that he alone was the way, the truth and the life; no man can come to the Father but by him. Saying that you can glean truth from lies is like saying you can get nourishment from excrement- whatever fractional and infinitesimal gain is vastly outweighed by the bulk of it being crap.
Ruth, my sister, you cannot cobble together portions of scripture and make a doctrine. The Bible is EXHAUSTIVE in telling us (Isaiah, Ezekiel, Zechariah, Revelation) that there will be another temple built. With a temple comes temple implements and practices. When the Bible says there will be a daily sacrifice, it means animals will be killed for the use of the temple, DAILY. Scripture never says, indicates, implies or leaves open to suggestion that the gospel is the daily sacrifice. What the abomination that makes desolate is, we cannot be certain of, but we do know the Bible is a book of types and shadows. Antiochus Epiphanes sacrificed a swine in the holy of holies and desecrated the temple. So we do know that it will be a PHYSICAL, VISIBLE, APPALLING act. This is why Jesus said when you SEE the abomination that makes desolate, flee. People not accepting the word simply doesnt even come close to fitting that bill. Jesus plainly states in Matthew 24 that the gospel that is to be preached is the gospel of the kingdom, the gospel that would be a witness to the world. No GOSPEL but the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ can be inferred. The passage you cite in Zechariah disproves your point; it is making reference again to the gospel of Christ. How could a false gospel provide penalty to those who steal or swear? Finally, the angel you mention in Revelation 10 is an angel of God because he comes down from heaven. When Satan came from heaven in the same book, he was thrown. VASTLY different picture. 1And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:
2And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth,
3And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.
4And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.
5And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
6And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
7But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
Does this sound like a false Christ to you? Your zeal is commendable on its face. But the breadth of it is dangerous and condemnatory. I suggest you study, truly study the scripture. The things you are espousing are not only erroneous, but damning. Maranatha
Amardo.. The angel of Rev 10 declares the end…Jesus said NO, THE ANGELS OF GOD do not know time end..As for the little book john eats it is sweet in his mouth like honey.. THIS MEANS IS APPEARS TO BE GOD’S WORDS AS GOD’S WORDS ARE AS SWEET AND SWEETER THAN HONEY.. but this book makes John bitter in his belly… because it is not of god..
Notice this angel has one foot on the sea and one foot on the land plus his little book with which to proseltyize and then refer to MAtt 23 -15.. “these encompass land and sea to make one proseltye and when he is man he is two fold more a child of hell…..Rev 10 is example of the proseltzing that makes men into children of hell..
This angel of light that looks like Jesus is the same angel of Galatians 1-8.. and of 2 corinthinans 11 -4,14..
Angels do not proseltize the gospel, men do..
As for the ANOTHER TEMPLE BEING BUILT what do you think the BODY OF CHRIST is..???WE ARE THE TEMPLE OF GOD…
aND DO YOU NOT KNOW THAT MOHAMMED’S LITTLE KORAN GOSPEL IS A GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM.. iT TEACHES A SPRIT OF GOD, ISSA, HEAVEN, HELL, ANGELS, PARADISE, RESURRECTION, DAY OF JUDGEMENT, THE RETURH OF BOTH JESUS AND MOHAMMED..etc. et.c.etc.
My friend you have much to learn..
What I have been saying is definately not for those who drink milk and not meat..As for gleaning truth from error…do you not know error makes the truth shine brighter..makes it more visible to true hearts..
What do you think god meant when he said “He will crush levaithan’s head and give him to be meat for his people inhabiting the wilderness….do you think god meant actual meat or spiritual meat…
Hold your horses there Ruth,
The Angel of God in revelation 10 is of God … the book John eats is of God!
Consider well before you go further with this mess.
I have a lot to say but I will refrain …
this time …
And Amardo could teach you much because his words are not twisted.
I don’t think you’re in the mind set to receive …
The angel of Revelation 10 is declaring the end of time… Read what Jesus said of angels delcaring they know the time of the end.. Matt 24-36….But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.THE ANGEL OF REVELATION 10 IS THE SAME ANGBEL of Galatins 1-8 and 2 coerinthins 11-4,14..Both of these verses show the angel brings a perversion of CHrist’s gospel.. as koran is..
everyone:
You can disagree, and then give reasons, but do not insult each other.
thank you
Jesus said “But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God’s throne:Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. Matthew 5-34, 35..Yet the angel in Revelation 10 swears by God and heaven and earth..I guess it amounts to this whether it be Bible verse or todays events , you either believe
Jesus words or you will wind up believing an angel of light..
And Abigal, I have been at ths a long time…The Lord sends me to witness and then I am gone.. so have patience.. He will lead me elsewhere soon..God has sent you some pearls ..What have you done with them..
‘
Ruth,
I have patience 🙂
No doubt you have been at this a long time.
What are you saying ‘he will lead you elsewhere’?
Or ‘God has sent you some pearls ..What have you done with them..’
And anyways what is a long time?
Or what is ‘soon’?
Marianne, you are a most gracious hostess..
I think whether one thinks it is a good angel or a bad one in Revelation, God’s purpose is being fulfilled.
What are you saying Marianne?
Gods’ purpose is being fulfilled?
And that whether the angel in rev. 10 is good or bad ?
Seems not to matter …
Did John eat the book?
Yes.
Was he told take the book?
yes.
Was he told to prophesy?
Yes.
So I guess the rest of the chapters of revelation don’t matter …
since the angel was the devil feeding him a bunch of lies??
abigail
I meant that God predicted a final time for evil in the last days. But all activity will work toward his final purpose of punishing the wicked, and rewarding the righteous.
Abigail.. God commands John to eat this bitter – sweet book and then commanded to witness ….. Do you suppose he could be one of the witnesses of the next chapter that evidently witnesses against the beast ..the beast kills him.. If so, John vcould well simply represent those christians who do witness against the beast.. there are many today..
sometimes witnessing is a bitter experience. The words we have are sweet, but people reject them.
I don’t know who the witnesses are Ruth and I don’t suppose anything.
But I may tell you and others one thing.
And that is ‘the honey of God is Fire.’
God was gracious that it tasted like honey to his tongue.
How else could John have swallowed the living word, seasoned with fire?
Abigail.. the little book the angel is holding is not any part of the gospel of CHrist.First of all John had the gsopel written in his heart ..He also helped in writing it…
ruth
interesting concept….I had not thought of that viewpoint before. I really had not thought about what John had swallowed.
This angel is also classified as a woe……
Well I guess the wrath of God has to come sometime.
I agree with you Ruth … I don’t think the book John swallowed was the gospel.
I think what he swallowed was the wrath of God …
Not upon Him but it was swallowed so he could write about it.
What is to come upon the earth is indeed TERRIBLE.
Has anyone even wondered what the SEVEN THUNDERS are of Rev. 10-3,4..And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.
They are not God’s voice.. The voice from heaven was God’s voice.God said to seal up the things the seven thunders spoke.
The answer of these seven thunders is somewhere in the bible.. I just have not encountered it yet..
I learned one very important thing abut Revelation 10… and that is that a lot of people say this angel is Jesus…It isn’t. He is in fact the angel of light..It is scary how many do not know god form satan..
I also would not have known had it not been revealed to me a long time ago.
Some of you will be glad when I am gone!!!!!!! Sorry if I come off as a know it all.. but we really are living in crucial times and I really am trying to help..
And Marianne,, you are an amazing person.. Your mind is open and you have both intellect and heart.. and are not judgement…
judgmental…
Answer me Ruth ‘some of you will be glad when I am gone?’
What are you saying?
Ruth,
You are right, the angel of Revelation 10 isn’t Jesus; Jesus isn’t an angel, though there are a number of similarities between this angel and Jesus, and some have said the angel is Jesus; Hebrew 1 says He is greater than Angels, for He is God.
Someone above made the statement that Jesus is the eternal Son, and there are many who make this claim, but the Bible nowhere makes this claim! Jesus is the eternal Word, but not the eternal Son. It was told Mary at the announcement of His birth, that, He SHALL BE called the Son of God; it doesn’t say that he has been, and has always existed as the Son. Jesus is God manifest in flesh, not the Son manifest in flesh. There is not space here to deal with this subject in depth.
But, the angel of Revelation 10, IS a powerful angel of God.
What was uttered by the Angel, the 7 thunders, isn’t hid somewhere else in the Bible, I don’t believe; it possibly will be preached by the Two Witnesses.
The important thing to note from what he said in Re 10 is that the mystery of God will be finished when the 7th trumpet sounds;
vs 7, But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
I’ve got a short study on the Mystery of God; the phrase encompasses numerous facets of the church, and it is referring to the church in Re 10, which will be complete, and taken out of the world at the 7th trumpet. One of the aspects of the mystery is Christ in you, the hope of glory, Col 1:27. Type mystery in Bible program search engine for N.T. and notice the different facets of the mystery that all relate to some aspect of the church. There is also a mystery of iniquity, but that is a different mystery.
Paul alludes to the church being a mystery in Eph 3. Paul also says in I Co 15 that at the last trumpet (7th) the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed, translated.
In Re 11:15 you have the actual sounding of the 7th trumpet, and vs 18 says that the judgment of the believers is come; in order for us to be at the judgment, we have to be translated.
Re 14:14, which also is an occurrence that happens with the sounding of the 7th trumpet, you see Jesus on a white cloud reaping the harvest of the earth, which is us; we are the harvest of God, and in verse 17 you see another reaping, but by and angel who gathers the clusters of the vine of the earth, and they are cast into the wine press of the wrath of God.
I sure have enjoyed all of the commentators who have given input; some were a little condescending at times, and that is easy to do.
Jesus promised in John 14,15,&16 that His Spirit would guide us into all truth; may He also deliver us from all error.
M.R. Boehm,
Your text is Expressed well.
The Spirit of God is with you.
The seven Thunders of Judgement are sealed.
John heard their voices but he was instructed not to write.
So powerful is the living Word of God that if he would have written those down …
I think they would have occurred at that time.
Let him who have an ear HEAR.
Stay close to The Lord … so very close.
Correction …
The Seven Thunders WERE sealed. 🙂
And another mention here M.R. Boehm … you say the two witnesses will preach.
What makes you think that they will be preachers??
M.R. Boehm.. your text is making me wonder if THE MYSTERY OF GOD that shall be finished might be the revelation of the real idenity of God/Jesus…You mentioned the mystery of iniquity which is as usual a counterfeit of god… The mystery of iniquity in 2 thess 2 is as Paul said the evil one claiming he is god..””Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.””
These two mysteries, the mystery of God and the mystery of iniquity concern the idenity of god and the indwelling.
Your text really made some things evident to me, M. R. Boehm..
2 thessalonians 2-3..Let no man deceive you by any.means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Is not the great falling away from Christ revealing the man of sin??? These leave Christ and go into doctrines that cause them to become children of hell. as MAtthew 23-15 verifies..
Satan indwelling man is satan sitting in the TEMPLE OF GOD.. We are the temple of god..He sits in God’s temple and claims though these that he is god….
2 Thessalonians 2-4..Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God
2 Thessalonians 2-6..And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. Could this withholding mean the same thing as God telling John to seal up the things the thunders said..??
And finally . 2- Thessalonians 2-7..For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way. Paul is telling us this mystery does already work…John 8 shows men who are worshipping satan as god and they are children of hell..This would be the mystery of iniquity already working.. as would also the many antichrists of John’s day in 1st John 2..The people who hold to this lie will be taken away..as Jesus also said…He removes the evil from the kingdom…
2 Thessalonians 2-11,12..And for this cause God shall send them strong DELUSION, that they should believe a lie:That they all might be DAMNED who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. God tells us what this DELUSION is in Isaiah 66- 4,5 God said he will choose the delusions… v. 5 says they will say “let the Lord be god”…So it would appear this delusion is believing an imposter is god..
The DAMNATION is as Jesus said ‘he that believeth not the gospel shall be damned.’…Also curious enough the DAMNATION is also mentioned in John 5-29..And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of DAMNATION..Makes one wonder that time we are living in…considering the verse that precedes John 5-29..Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
I really have had to shake my head quite a few times. Let me make one thing clear, It isnt my intent to proselytize you or anyone else, Ruth. I am simply presenting what I know to be truth in the face of the error you insist on spreading. I can say it till I’m blue in the font, you CAN’T begin to read or understand Revelation until you start with Genesis and work your way through. If you had done that, you would have encountered a passage in Ezekiel where Ezekiel is told by God to eat a scroll; same premise. I’ve already stated that the Bible is a book of types and shadows. Furthermore, I believe I began my last post by saying that one is entitled to believe or express whatever one feels. While I consider what your doing to be detrimental, I wont continue to waste my time casting pearls before swine. I value the fellowship of this site and the insight I gain from others. As far as this thread is concerned, I won’t address any further comments to you. Be blessed and ready for his coming. Maranatha
hi amardo
I think those that may know more should just instruct and guide with patience. I bless God for His endless patience toward all of us.
Pearls are precious and well paid for by our Savior.
The words of Truth should not be mixed with vinegar.
The Pure Water of Life is Spirit.
Pearls are formed by the tiniest grain of sand or the tiniest thought,
thought with the Mind of Christ.
In unison with The Will of God it becomes a pearl.
Those that reject Him and His Gospel are none of His.
Where would we be without it! Just as a point of clarification and in the spirit of godliness, I was not inferring that Ruth or anyone else was a swine. I believe when Christ made the statement he was only reinforcing what he told his disciples about not forcing the gospel upon anyone. Compel, yes; force, never. I don’t take lightly the time people spend here and don’t want anyone to be put off by me or something I say. Maranatha
Amardo…I have read Genesis, and Ezekiel and most of the Bible many times,, not just once..As for Ezekiel eating the sroll I think this scroll was God’s words.. I do not believe it caused betterness to Ezekiel as did the book John ate…. Correct me if I am wrong..
Also Ezekiel was sent to Israel, not to many peoples, tongues, nations, and kings, etc. as was John..
Zech. 5 -1-3 also speaks of a roll (book).. This roll goes over the entire earth.. It is also a curse..
The Lord gave us a clue in Matthew 23-15.. He speaks of those who encompass land and sea (as this angel is doing) and whose proseltyizing causes men to be transformed into children of hell..
If you think about it, The Lord transforms men from Adam’s image into the image of God by his Words (the Gospel). BORN AGAIN OF THE WORD OF GOD THAT LIVETH AND ABIDETH FOREVER….JESUS SAID MY WORDS ARE SPIRIT AND LIFE..THINK ABOUT IT.. WOULD NOT SATAN ALSO COUNTERFEIT THIS GREAT WORK OF GOD…And then think about Mohammed and his Koran Gospel that has produced only death..1400 years of death..If you dont believe this read islam history and current events..
Check out angels and gospels in Galatians 1-8 and 2 corinthians 11 – 4, 14…
And bear in mind The Koran gospel is satan’s version of the gospel of the kingdom.. It teaches, Issa as Jesus, allah as the spirit of god and heaven, hell, resurrection, angels, etc..
note
I can see how opposite interpretations can be concluded from this.
Just stay open minded, and back up what you say with scripture.
We are so close to these events, that the true interpretation will be made clear to all very soon.
The Koran gospel of the kingdom is the abomination that makes desolate..It makes one desolate of truth and then satan enters and dwells within.. hense children of satan..Matthew 13 -38..The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked [one]; and he sowed them… Now think about who God was speaking of when he said”””Let us make man in our image”””
God created man in Gensis 1-27.. the making or remaking of man is a different story..Matthew 13-39 shows us who made the children of satan.. satan sowed them.. Luke 8-11..Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12..Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Satan teaches them lies.. This is how he takes the word out of their hearts..thereby making them desolate… koran is the abomination that makes desolate and there may be more false gospels in this scenario, even in Christianity..like new age, etc.
Has everyone seen Obama with his shoes off praying with the muslims at the white house…If
I didn’t know Islam’s evil plans for America and the world I would not want to puke so much….Obama same as abolished the traditinal Christian day of prayer…Gird up your loins.. It is now America’s turn for the tribulation Islam has brought to most of the rest of the world.It is our time to be tested or should I say tempted of the devil..
Remember Satan said to Jesus “””FALL DOWN (LIKE OBAMA JUST DID IN THE W.H.) AND WORSHIP ME AS THE GOD OF ABRHAM AND I WILL GIVE YOU THE WORLD (JIHAD).How else would satan sit in God’s seat and claim to be god except by saying HE IS THE GOD OF ABRHAM..
I received the picture and information of Obama falling down and worshipping with the muslims at the white house.. I have not found this info online yet.. But I will send it to who ever wants it if you give me your email address.
scary times
I think Ruth is way off!
I will pray for everyone here.
Marianne, did you get the email I sent???
Abigail,
Thank you for the kind words! You asked why I think the Two Witnesses will preach?
Re 11:3 says, And I will give power unto my Two Witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
One of the meanings of prophecy is to speak under divine inspiration. The Two Witnesses will preach in Jerusalem for 1260 days; we will see them on TV, I believe.
Verse 4 says that they are the two olive trees, and the two anointed ones that stand before the God of the earth.
There is only one other place in the Bible where this language is used; Ze 4:1 And the angel that talked with me came again, and waked me, as a man that is wakened out of his sleep, 2 And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold … 3 And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof … 11 Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof? 14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.
The message in Zec 4 was that the temple would be built, not by might nor by power, but by the Spirit of God, vs 6; under the leadership of Zerubbabel, the leader of Jerusalem, the temple would be built, and it was. vs. 9 The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house; his hands shall also finish it; and thou shalt know that the LORD of hosts hath sent me unto you.
It is my studied opinion that God will use the Two Witnesses in Revelation to overcome the opposition to the re-building of the temple; they have divine power to overcome any enemy.
An interesting side note about the Two Witnesses, is that when they have finished their 3 1/2 year preaching and ascend to heaven, it says the 2nd woe is past; the 2nd woe is the 6th trumpet which is very near the end of the seven sealed book. The only thing left is for the 7th trumpet to sound, which brings the rapture, and the wrath of God, which is said to be filled up in the 7 vial judgment. Nine times in the Revelation the vial judgments are called the wrath of God.
Question …
Did Ezekiel and other Holy Prophets ever DID anything insignificant?
And a point here I would like to make …
Scriptures says : ‘And when they shall have finished their testimony’…
Dictionary defines the word ‘testimony’
as ‘evidence, proof, confirmation, demonstration etc.’
Just something to think about.
Preachers (today as yesterday) do not to my knowledge fit the description above.
Abigail,
I’m not sure I understand what you are saying; the Bible says the Two Witnesses will prophecy 1260 days; that is 3 1/2 years; thats a long time to preach. The verse you site is merely commenting on the end of their preaching, and calling it, when they have finished their testimony/their preaching of 3 1/2 years.
Christians, when they speak of how they got saved, are said to give testimony.
I’m not sure what you are disputing; do you not believe that the Two Witnesses will preach/prophecy for 1260 days? To me the Bible is clear on the subject, even though it doesn’t have chapters about them.
Many in prophecy circles, to my knowledge haven’t talked much about the Two Witnesses, but that doesn’t negate what the Scriptures say about them.
Dear,
I am not disputing. These two witnesses will most for sure prophesy!
I just don’t equate prophesying with preaching.
Preaching is one approach and prophesying is another.
A person may preach and speak of their beliefs and so forth …
A preacher nowadays speaks from their own understanding of scriptures. Sometimes it is in accordance with the Truth and other times it is so far gone that you either laugh or cry at its substance.
Prophesying is an entire difficult realm.
And no I am not speaking of these modern ‘so called prophets.’
The witnesses of Revelation have been prophesied about since Ezekiel.
and maybe even further in time.
So these are unique.
Not many prophets have prophesied concerning another prophet.
No.
Many and all prophets have prophesied about Christ.
Some prophets prophesied the punishments to come as well.
So we have had the Holy Prophets and The Holy Apostles, servants of God.
A vessel in the service of The Lord belongs to The Lord.
Many think that Elijah is one of the end time ‘Witnesses’ and I wouldn’t doubt it nor contest it.
And people think this way because of The Powers given the last two Prophets resembles some of the acts which Elijah in his time did by The Hand of God.
But if this is so ‘Elijah’ was not a preacher per say.
He was an executer of the will of God.
He didn’t walk around preaching much.
That is what I am saying if you can understand my hand writing.
🙂
Abigail,
Thank you for your clarification! I really missed it; I went back and reread what you had said again after I had posted on what you had said, and I thought maybe I had misunderstood what you said.
I do have to disagree with you on one point, and again I could be misunderstanding you; and I don’t know what, or what kind of church you are affiliated with.
The O.T. prophets were very much preachers; they didn’t preach from a pulpit in a building, like in a church; they were like John the Baptist and Jesus, or visa versa.
God told Isaiah in 58:1, Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.
That is preaching! One of the job descriptions of the O.T. prophets was to preach against sin; the sins of Israel, and the sins of Judah. Read also Je. 1:7-10;17-19, Jeremiah’s call to preach, against the sins of Judah.
Anyway, what you said above is good and right; possibly one of the 2 Wit. could be Elijah, for he never died, and was predicted in Mal. 4:5 to have a 2nd advent, vs 5, Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet, before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
One could be Enoch, for he never died; Moses also never died.
Now we know that Elijah was a type of John the Baptist for Jesus said that if they could receive it, Elijah was come (in the person of John Baptist) but John was not Elijah come back personally, for John was born, not brought back.
It is possible that Mal 4:5 has a double fulfilment, and that Elijah will come back supernaturally as one of the Two Witnesses, for Mal says that he will be come back, before the great and dreadful day of the LPRD Come.
That brings us to another subject that is very mis-understood, and that is the Day of the LORD (Jehovah).
Now, think with me, the Day of the LORD (day of Jehovah) is first described in Is. 13:6 (it is mentioned in Is 2:12ff first), but 13 Isaiah really defines and delineates a good portion of the day of the LORD.
It is a doctrine that is defined and delineated by the O.T. prophets, then Jesus refers to the cosmic sign of the Day of the LORD in Mt 24:29, of the sun moon, and stars, and then we see it actually happen and start in Re 6:12 in the 6th Seal, with that cosmic sign of the sun, moon, and stars .
Is 13:6, Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.
7 Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man’s heart shall melt:
8 And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be afraid …
9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.
13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.
There are a number of things that define the day of the LORD.
1. It is said to be a day of Wrath
2. There is the cosmic sign that is associated with it; vs 10, of the sun, moon, and stars.
3. It is a time when God punishes the world for evil and sin; Jesus was punished already for sin, but He has been rejected by the world.
In other, Day of the LORD passages as Joel 1:15; 2:1,2,10,11,30,31; 3:2,9-15; Zeph 1:14-18; Zec 14:1-4. The theme of the whole book of Joel is the Day of the LORD.
4. Armageddon is the O.T. focal point of the Day of the LORD, as Zech 14:1 says, Behold, the day of the LORD cometh … 2. and I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle (Armageddon).
5. The day of the LORD encompasses the 7 trumpets; and the 7 vials, which are the Wrath of God. How do we know this?
Jesus said very clearly in Mt 24:29, Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Examine what Jesus said; when does this sign happen? immediately after the tribulation (I was taught that the tribulation is 7 years, and is the whole book of Revelation. Jesus said that the cosmic sign of the sun, moon, and stars is right after the tribulation! What does it mean? Very simply, that the sign of the sun, moon, and stars is the sign that tribulation is over (it took me 10 years to accept this, because it didn’t fit the theology I was taught). That sign is also what? The sign of the O.T. Day of the LORD.
Joel 2:30,31, And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth–blood and fire and pillars of smoke. 31 The SUN shall be turned into darkness, and the MOON into blood, BEFORE the great and the terrible Day of the LORD come.
Joel tells us that this sign of the sun, moon, and stars occurs BEFORE the great and terrible Day of the LORD comes.
Jesus said it followed tribulation.
This sign tells us two things; tribulation has ended, and the Day of the LORD is starting. So, tribulation ends with the 6th Seal, and the Day of the LORD starts with the 7th Seal of Revelation, and is the 7 trumpets (first part of the day, and the 7 vials, the wrath of God, the 2nd part of the day of the LORD.
Ze 14:4 says the LORDS feet will stand that day on the Mt. of Olives, when He comes back; that ends the day of the LORD; Jesus ends Armageddon with His coming, and sets up His kingdom and ushers in His Millennium! Hallelujah!
Ze 14:3,4 says the one that comes, whose feet stand on Mt. Olives is Jehovah; Is 40 says that John the Baptist would be the forerunner of Jehovah; In Is 43 Jehovah is the only saviour; Isaiah also shows Jehovah to be the redeemer; and the one who comes in flaming fire; and who treads the wine press of the wrath of god; Ps 23 says that Jehovah is the Shepherd; and on we could go with at least 15 more things that Jehovah is in Isaiah and in Zechariah, all of which Jesus is in the N.T.
Back to what I started out with; The Two Witnesses start their preaching before the Day of the LORD stars, as Malachi prophecied. Have a good week, & God Bless!
Dear M.R. Boehm,
thank you for your response.
I am glad that ‘The Great and Terrible Day of The Lord’
is so well understood by you.
I am not affiliated with any church.
Have a blessed week as well.
🙂
Abigail,
I wanted to say one more thing about preaching; it is communicating the mind and will of God to His people; and to the world too; Is 1:1 says, Hear O heavens, and give ear O earth. But he is actually preaching to the southern kingdom of Judah and Jerusalem, warning them of the impending judgment of God for their sins; for their turning away from Him and His ways as revealed in His Word.
I apologize for making the thing on the Day of the LORD so long; I should have broken it up into smaller segments so it would be easier to read; I didn’t realize I had written so much until I had posted it. Have a nice day!
Ruth,
Again, you have some interesting ideas! In my opinion, II Th 2 is one of the hardest passages to understand in all the N.T., and especially the part you are citing. I believe that the temple the man of sin sets himself up in is the temple in Jerusalem, which hasn’t been built yet.
The Two Witnesses are coming to help in this (sent by God). I believe they are one of the key signs to understanding the chronology of Revelation, for we are told how long they preach, and precisely when they finish; all we have to do is deduce when they start; I believe it is with the 1st Seal. The beast who continues (works) for 42 months has his demise just shortly after the Two Witnesses; theirs is the 6th trumpet, and his is the 6th vial (maybe only 45 days later); so much for the idea that the Revelation is a 7 year period; but thats another topic.
II Th 2:6, And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. I think that whatever the witholding is (to me this is hard to understand) whatever it is, it is withholding the coming of Christ, that He might be revealed in His time.
The reason I think it is withholding Christ, is because Christ’s coming and our gathering together unto Him, is the subject of discussion in vss 1-3; in the first part of vs 3. Paul says, that day won’t come, that is the day of the “Coming of our Lord Jesus Christ” and our gathering together unto Him; (to understand our translation, that phrase needs to be studied in all 8 or 9 verses it is found).
Paul calls (the coming of our Lord Jesus, and our gathering unto Him) the Day of Christ in vs 2. The “day of Christ” is clearly the translation of the saints in all five places it is mentioned; the termination of our existence here, and our taking up residence there. Hallelujah! Paul also says in vs 3, that day won’t happen until the falling away (apostacia), and the man of sin is revealed.
Vs7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.
There is nothing in the context to indicate that ‘he who now letteth’ is the Holy Spirit; the Holy Spirit is not alluded to at all in this passage; to read Him into the text is to err, in my opinion; it is isogesis, not exegesis; even though there are many who teach this very thing. I was taught it long ago, but when I became a man, in understanding I put away things that didn’t fit. Context determines meaning always! We must be honest with the Scriptures, more than we give allegiance to man’s theology, no matter how Popular it may be. We are after truth, not acceptance.
I like your idea; your insight; that the mystery of iniquity is Satan revealing himself in the temple, incarnate in the man of sin. Very good! I don’t know if Satan will actually indwell him, but it is very clear in vss 8 & 9, And then shall that Wicked be revealed … Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders. This is the beast of Re 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard … and the dragon gave him his power (whose coming is after the working of Satan), and his seat (in the temple), and great authority (all power and signs and lying wonders).
No doubt about it, the man of sin, the beast, is Satan’s man, and the Revelation says in two different passages, chs 11 & 17, that he ascends out of the bottomless pit and take up residence again on earth for a short time, 42 mo.; maybe he will be Mohammed brought back; maybe not too.
The “mystery of iniquity;” a mystery is something that is hidden, at least for a while; it very well could be referring to Islam, which is the religion of the beast, and was hidden for several hundred years, until 600 AD.
I like your comment later, that the Koran gospel is the abomination that makes desolate! Islam is the religion of Antichrist, and the most antichrist religion on earth, and is does desolate, and bring desolation; it always has and always will. God Bless!
The word REVEAL is why I think it is the sons of perdition that will be revealed in 2 Thess 2-6.
2 Thess 2 -2..that man of sin be REVEALED, the son of perdition; .
2 thess 2-6..And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be REVEALED in his time.
WHEN PEOPLE UNDERSTAND THAT ISLAM IS NOT OF GODK>
WHEN people understand that islam is not of god and allah is not the god of abrham it is no longer hidden but revealed to be sons of perdition?antichrist
Ruth, and M.R.Boehm,
The British Museum, dates the Koran manuscript at 790 AD …
therefore it cannot be what the apostle was speaking of.
Abigail…Are you referring to Paul prophesing of the angel of light with the perverted gospel in 2 corinthinas 2 -4,14 and Galatians 1-8 ??? If so, you do know he was speaking of future event, don’t you??
Future events were revealed to Paul from Jesus..So the date of Koran means nothing…Also I believe korans dating to Mohammed were found recently buried under a mosque, this year….
The muslims have tried forever to give evidence that the Koran is ‘very ancient’.
I don’t believe anything they come up with and why should you?
buried under a mosque … make me laugh 🙂
Abigal..don’t you think this will be investigate thoroughly and I think it is Germany that is analyizing these manuscripts…not muslims… look it up on line..It really does not matter when koran was written..It is still a lie and a false gospel of the kingdom as
Paul prophcied.
It does matter when it was written!!
If written after Christ or before Christ, makes the world of difference.
These people could not even write.
I can assure you The Empire of the time ‘Rome’
had everything to do with the written manuscript.
You are interpreting a lot of things on assumptions.
Now I don’t care for ANY religion.
Man has messed enough things in the past and started many different sects.
And I don’t believe a lie.
The Koran is a fabrication.
As many other text.
Abigal…rev 11-4..These (witnesses) are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth…… This shows who the two witness are.. Now read revelations 1-20..The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden CANDLESTICKS. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven CANDLESTICKS which thou sawest ARE THE SEVEN CHURCHES.. OLIVE TREES PROBABLY MEANS THEY ARE ANOINTED…
Could two of the seven churches be these two witness….There are people all over the world exposing the lies of Islam and also of Barack Obama.. If this is true the bible is written in singular both to hide and to not confuse..Remember Jesus said he spoke always in parables to the masses..He showed the truth of these to his own..
One thing I am certain of these TWO WITENSSES witness against the doctriens of the
Islamic beast and are killed for it….I also think John eating the little koran gospel in Rev 10 is part of this… After John eats this book and is told to witness to nations, and peoples and tongues, etc …then this witnessing work begins in the very next chapter….Do you suppose God put this in this order for a reason..
Ruth
I dont understand everything what you are writing.. do you basically say Islam is the antichristian and one-world religion Religion of the Beast? What do you think is the role of the illuminating luciferian Faith (New-Age, HL-Freemasonry,…) and of “Maitreya”?
Note that the U.N. organisation is New-Age… and does “Channelings” on some of their minor conventions.
Luci(fer)’s Trust, founded by Alice-Ann Bailey, who founded the Theosophical Society and was disciple of satanist Helena Blavatsky, is their publisher.
..just curious of your view-
and what you wrote about the Holy Spirit I for myself found right and wise. With the other things about Islam iam not sure yet… and i didnt comprehend yet what you mean.
Thank you, Ruth
Jesus, Y’shua is King!
…The Harlot will be eaten by the Beast…
Illuminati-Luciferians and Vatican- mother of Islam, will be eaten…
I think maybe now it is getting slowly more clearer for me 😉
Silvanus….illuminating luciferian Faith (New-Age, HL-Freemasonry,…) and of “Maitreya”?
Note that the U.N. organisation is New-Age… and does “Channelings” on some of their minor conventions.
Luci(fer)’s Trust, founded by Alice-Ann Bailey, who founded the Theosophical Society and was disciple of satanist Helena Blavatsky, is their publisher
The above groups are all deceptions but not a counterfeit of Jesus and god’s works with mankind.. Islam is..
Islams teaches jesus (Issa) and the sprit of god (allah) and a gosepl (koran…all counterfeit of CHrist’s work..
Islam also teaches old covenant as does also CHristianity
Mohammed was a congterfeit of Jesus..He as Jesus claimed blood lines to Abrham..via (Ishmael)…
Mohamed is said to be the way, the truth, the light, the intercessor, the word of god, said he ascended into heaven, descended into hell and said he would return in last hour… all of which is a counterfeit of Jesus works…
Jesus condemned Islam when he condemned the doctrines of the Iduman pharisees…The doctrine practiced by the men who had Jesus killed was identical to Islam doctrines and practices today..and
The Idemean pharisees said they worshipped Abrhams god as do muslims…But Jesus said they are of satan.. john 8…They said they were sons of Abrham but Jesus said not sons, but SEED of abrham…These circumsized, said long prayers, wore long gowns, stoned women and so forth..The Idumeans were of Edom.. Edom was populated by Esau and Ishamels descendants…These were forced converted into judaism 100 years before Jesus.. These are some of the men who had Jesus killed…THIS IS HISTORY..
These pharisees also deny
Jesus is son of god and had him killed for saying it…They also denied his death..
The Idumean pharisees who conspired to have Jesus killed had the identical doctrine as Islam today..
Islam doctrines (that are identical to the Idumean pharisees doctrines) also teach a counterfeit of the new covenant gospel of CHrist..They teach (issa)Jesus, (spirit of god)allah and koran…This is a counterfeit of messiah Jesus …If this isnt anti christ there is no antichrist.
Jesus showed that those denying his death are of satan in Matt 16-20,22, 23
ruth
what evidence do you have that the pharisees were of this people group, the Idumeans?
There is a difference between a people being incorporated into a region by conquest, and that same group spiritually leading those that conquered them.
My guess would be that the pharisees were Israelites, not edomites.
Ruth
There is in 1 John 2 a passage most know:
“22Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son. 23No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever
acknowledges the Son has the Father also. ”
…
That’s exactly the distincton Islam has…
I didnt know Mohammed has been called the Wa* and the Tr…
thats MOST blasphemic!!
Is that right that Philistine is Palastine ?
both have PLTN
Hiya 🙂
When you all discussed over 7 year and Christ’ coming and why it is withhold from us or Christ.. got me stop and think really deeply here.. Here is my thought…
“If Almighty withheld it for a VERY good reason is because Satan already KNOW about the bible and even read it.. but kept mystery of WHEN… that way Satan cannot know when nor able to seek it among us by telepathy ( reading people’s minds ) . or heavens..At least only thing that Satan knows that he does have a short time when let out.. but STILL does not knowledge of WHEN.. ”
*shrug* Pardon me for my thought is only because I had to sit back and listen and observing and try to concerate on few missing links or something mystery that is best remind in dark until God tells the chosen ones otherwise..
Just remember.. only a thought 🙂 Bless you all
Tamera
Deut 4-19..And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, [even] all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and serve them, which the LORD thy God hath divided unto all nations under the whole heaven. This ancient astrology religion engulfed the entire earth…It is still here but just monotheised..
When the bible speaks of the sun and moon not giving light it refers to them in gender.. ,i.e. the sun does not give HIS light and the moon does not give HER light…The ancient astrology sun and moon god were also male and female…Plus different cultures interchanged their gender..
As for stars falling from heaven refer to Rev. 8-10 amd Rev 9-1 and revelation 12-4…
Islam is off shoot of the ancient astrology worship…Allah was the ancient moon god that arabia worshipped…His name was allah long before mohammed lived and in fact Mohammeds father and mohammed were named after this ancient moon god.. their name was abd allah
Jesus said he spoke always in parables to the masses, but showed the truth of these to his own people.. Just remember the answers are always in the Bible.. always…look there first and then to world events..
The astrology worship was begun in Eden..Enoch verifies this and Enoch was an eyewitness to the evil of the fallen angels..
This ancient astrology worship was one of the reason god flooded the earth… Noah’s son Ham and Cush and Nimrod resurrected this ancient astrology worship at the tower of Babel..history poves this Babel religion was astrology..
Mahammed even gave honor to the ancient sun, moon and star religion by naming koran books sun, moon star and jinn..
Plus the first words of the koran identify who allah really is…He is the god of the worlds-plural…Well satan was also god of the worlds…the astrology worlds..He was also the god of this world because this world worshipped the astrology lore before God called Abraham out of this lie of astrology worship..
There is a vast difference in the foundation of the WORLD and the foundation of the earth…The foundation of the earth is what God did in Genesis 1-2….The foundation of the WORLD is what satan set in motion in Genesis 3…when he plunged the world into a delusional existence of astrology lies of gods and goddesses..
Ruth
“Islam is off shoot of the ancient astrology worship”
So is Catholicism and the basis of every other worldly religion.
Arent this religions, including Islam, all part of the Harlot Babylon? Iam not sure yet.
Revelation 19-10..I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. Does this mean all who have the testimony of Jesus have the spirit of prophecy???
Jesus also said we would be WITNESSES to him even to the uttermost parts of the earth..Acts 1-8..But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. Would this not mean to the end.???
Now read who John said the two witnesses of Rev.11 are…verse 4..
These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
Rev 1-20..and the seven CANDLESTICKS which thou sawest are the seven churches.
Now refer to Psalms 52-8..But I [am] like a green OLIVE TREE tree in the house of God: I trust in the mercy of God for ever and ever
I could be wrong but
“I think the two witnesses of “Rev 11 are the anointed churches of Rev 3.. but maybe not all of these churches..
You and God are two witnesses…
According to this theory we all who worship Y’shua have supernatural powers to strike the earth with pestilences for 3,5 years?? No, Ruth. It is written the TWO Witnesses are wearing sackclothe and walking in Jerusalem.
Revelation 11:5-6 prophesies that the two witnesses will wield Divinely-given powers unprecedented in human history. Verse 5 states: “And if any man will hurt them, fire proceeds out of their mouth and devours their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.” This verse describes the miraculous defensive power the two witnesses will be given. The two witnesses will proclaim God’s truths to an unbelieving world which does not welcome their message.
# The governing, multinational entity called the “Beast” power will seek to kill the two witnesses and silence their message. However, for the three and ½ years of their allotted ministry, the two witnesses will be invulnerable to any human attacks and all human weaponry. The above verse indicates that an unknown number of attackers will die trying to harm or kill the two witnesses. Indeed, it states that “any man” seeking to hurt the two witnesses “must” be killed by fire. No human power will be able to stop the ministry of the two witnesses for three and ½ years.
Their power was also foretold or foreshadowed in other prophecies. Zechariah 4:7 prophesied that before Zerubbabel (a type of one of the two witnesses), a “great mountain” will become “a plain.”
# Revelation 11:4 calls the two witnesses “the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.” This prophecy indicates that the prophecy about the two witnesses is directly linked to (or foreshadowed by) a prophecy in Zechariah 3-4 about two individuals called the “two olive trees.” Since Revelation 11 links the two witnesses to information in Zechariah 3-4’s prophecy, a digression into Zechariah’s prophecy is necessary to understand more about the two witnesses.
#
# The prophecy in Zechariah 3-4 gives the names “Joshua” and “Zerubbabel” to the two men called the “two olive trees” in Zechariah 4:11, and it reveals that they are alive at a time “the foundation of this house” (verse 9) has been laid down. Zechariah and Haggai were two prophets who lived at the time of Ezra and Nehemiah (Ezra 5:1, 6:14), and Zechariah’s prophecy about the “two olive trees” likens them to two of their actual contemporaries who were named Joshua and Zerubbabel. Zerubbabel was a political officer and Joshua was a High Priest at that time (Haggai 1:1, 12). Since the two historic figures called the “two olive trees” are referenced in Revelation 11 as types of the two witnesses, it could indicate that one of the two witnesses will have a political background while the other “witness” will have a priestly/ministerial background.
#
# Zechariah 4:6 states that Zerubbabel’s power will flow from God’s Holy Spirit. This is consistent with Revelation 11:3 that God’s power will energize the two witnesses at the time of their calling. Verse 7 prophesies that a “great mountain” will become “a plain” before Zerubbabel. Mountains are used in prophecies as types of human nations (Isaiah 1:1-4 is one such example). Zerubbabel will be able to turn “a great mountain” (a very powerful nation or alliance of nations) into “a plain.” In other words, God’s power will be so strong in Zerubbabel that the military power of mighty nations (or the “beast” power” of Revelation) will be “leveled” before Zerubbabel. No human military power will be able to stand before the Divine power that will flow through the Two Witnesses. Zerubbabel had been involved in “laying the foundation of the house” (i.e. an earlier Temple) in Zechariah 4:9, which may indicate that one of the two witnesses will be involved with the effort to build a temple of God in Jerusalem in the latter days, and that these efforts will proceed from a time of very humble beginnings (“the day of small things” in Zechariah 4:10). Zerubbabel uses a “plummet,” a tool used in construction measurements. This parallels the fact that the two witnesses will emerge at a time the latter-day temple is being “measured” (Revelation 11:1-2).
http://www.stevenmcollins.com/html/two_witnesses.html
Ruth,
Taken from the King James.
Hbr 11:3
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear
Hbr 1:2
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Notice the word worldS is plural.
Unless you and I read a different bible… The Lord God created worldS without end.
Satan has no creative abilities.
Unless you assign Satan to be ‘God’.
There is but ONE creator.
You are trying to construct a theory or a theology to serve what purpose Ruth?
As for the occult is abounds today.
Just take a close look around you.
Abigail.. There is not a doubt in my mind that Almighty God created the worlds or planets…
How else could satan convince mankind that HE, not GOD created the worlds except by the lies of astrology lore.
If you read Deut. 4-19 you may understand what I am saying.. Deut 4-19 says IF YOU LOOK UP AND SEE THE SUN, MOON AND STARS AND HOST OF HEAVEN…This is precisely what satan did.. He caused man to look at the magnifance of the heavens and then he claimed it was his creation…According to Enoch this event really happened.. The fallen angel named Barackiel taught men astrology..IT engulfed the entire world and God even flooded the earth partly because of this ancient religion..Now Abigail please refer to 2 corinthians 4-4..In whom the GOD OF THIS WORLD hath blinded the minds of them which believe not,
Abigail you would do well to come off the attack mode and be a little nicer
Astrology originated first with Enoch, God gave Enoch the knowledge of the stars and their meanings. You can find this in the book of Enoch which is available today in all good book stores.
Christians took this knowledge and expounded upon it with their new faith that they had received two thousand years ago. But, like all truths it has been corrupted with false teachings which has led many astray, and so today it is presented in a very deceitful manner.
False predictions of astrology charts are made for people today for one purpose only, and that is to gain financial riches from the misinformed.
You must not reject all the teachings of astrology just because it has been corrupted, but sieve through it and find the truth for yourselves.
The sons of wisdom know how to pick out the meaning of YHWH from it.
Ruth
You say
‘Abigail.. There is not a doubt in my mind that Almighty God created the worlds or planets…
How else could satan convince mankind that HE, not GOD created the worlds except by the lies of astrology lore.’
To answer that question consider ‘the Big Bang Theory’ …
which by the way is adopted by The Catholic Church’ and by most countries.
That is how Satan deceives the nations …
Through the art of ‘knowledge’.
Remember the tree in the garden …
The ‘Tree of “knowledge’ ….??????
Ruth I am not in an attack mode.
I’ve asked you a question … actually several of them which you did not answer.
You just by-pass those questions and move on … as if you are being driven or pulled or pushed by a will to accomplish a summery or a theory.
Yes the ‘god’ of this world have blinded the minds of many.
I am a nice person.
Abounds in this world many religions and many sects and many belief systems.
Silvanus.. I know a little about Babylon the harlot but not all..
Rev, 18-20..Rejoice over her, [thou] heaven, and [ye] holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.
rev. 18-24…And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth. This verse proves the babylonian system was in existence a long time before Christianity or the catholic church..
Jesus said some of the scribes and pharisees were of this babylon group that killed the prophets..Matthew 23-31..Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. Bear in mind these pharisees were of Idumea..They were not of Israel…Idumea is of Esau-
Ishamels descendants..they were forced converts to Judaism
Matthew 23-35.That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous ABEL unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias,
The fact that the pharisees- Babylon are held responsible for the death of ABEL shows what Cain’s doctrine (jude1-11) was … It was the ancient astrology lore.. But back to Babylon…
Babylon began in the garden of Eden by Barackiel, Babylon was revived at the tower of Babel by Ham, Cush, Nimrod…This is the same Babylon of Revelations 17, 18 …It is Islam today…and God in his wisdom will take the wicked out of his kingdom..He will do this by allowing the unbeleivers to accept the lie that damns them ..This lie is Koran and Islam.. and they will be gathered into this ancient babyonian system now called Islam..Which is the braod way that leads to hell..also
Rev. 19 …the Beast .. will hate the harlot and will make her desolate and naked, and will eat her flesh and will burn her up with fire.”
Babylon => Astrology religion => Catholicism/Islam etc => Harlot (church) Babylon => destroyed by Beast/Antichrist
Stringent conclusion: The Beast is not endorsing Islam as his religion but the worship of himself , i.e. a pure form of Satanism/Luciferianism.
Enoch said the science of astronomy will be corrupted and they will take is as gods to be wroshipped ,but not in those words.. I will have to find the exact verse…
As for strology.. It was taught to man by the fallen angel Bartackiel.. The fallen angels did not teach good things or godly things to man..Astrology has always been condemned by God in the Bible..ALWAYS.. And this ancient astrology religion is one of the reasons God flooded the earth..
Has anyone considered the duality since Genesis 3…
Two trees in the garden, one of God’s wisdom , one of satan’s wisdom
Two Enochs, one of Seth’s family and one of Cains family…In fact there are several duplicate names in these two families.
Two creations stories,,, one of God’s called the foundation of the earth and the other one of satan called the foundation of the WORLD..which is the astrology delusion
AND THEN OF COURSE there were two sons of Abraham…Isaac, the foundation upon which Judaism and Christianity are built..
And Ishmael, the foundation upon which Islam is built…
And then we have the two words, i.e. the word of god the bible and the word of the koran from an angel..
And of course there is the narrow way and the broad way..
Two cities of religious significance, The New Jerusalem and Babylon the Great
And they there is Christ the real messiah and antichrist the fake messiah..
I guess our job is to discern which one is from God and which one is not of god…
Remember the Two Bethlehems?
The Two Zions, Sions?
To answer that question consider ‘the Big Bang Theory’ …
which by the way is adopted by The Catholic Church’ and by most countries.
That is how Satan deceives the nations …
Through the art of ‘knowledge’.
Remember the tree in the garden …
The ‘Tree of “knowledge’ ….??????
Silvanus..
The antichrist beast that causes men to convert to his lies does hate the people..and he especially hates CHristians..that fall for his lies and sad to say some do..
Right, and when we follow the scripture, God says the beast won’t be Islamic, or do you see that still else?
Abaigail.. satan convinced men that he created the worlds in the Garden of Eden… there was no big bang theory then..
Do you understand why he is called the GOD OF THE WORLD..
I understand perfectly why he is called the ‘liar’.
Consider that the devil comes to steal, kill and destroy.
What are we all fearful of today!!???
Nuclear warfare??
Is this not a weapon, a fruit which the tree of ‘knowledge’ (science) produced?
And what are the powers of that ‘fruit’ ?
Is it not to kill and to destroy?
And how many other fruits did ‘knowledge’ produced?
Abigail, have you ever wondered what CAIN’S DOCTRINE WAS???
He definately thought he was worshipping God but was in great error…
Jude 1-11 gives us a clue…Woe unto them! for they have gone in the WAY OF CAIN, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
I think the error of Balaam and Kore were both attempts to lead the Jews back into the astrology and serpent worship they came out of during Moses life..Some did fall..
Did you know Genesis gives us a hit of what Cain’s way was also..
Genesis 4-3..And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the FRUIT OF THE GROUND an offering unto the LORD.
Genesis 1-11 shows the fruit of the ground…And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, [and] the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed [is] in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. It was grass, herb yielding seed and fruit trees,,,Genesis 2-9..And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Genesis 3-3..But of the fruit of the tree which [is] in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
Hebrew linguists says the word used for MARK that God put on Cain is the same word used for SIGN in Gensis 1-14 which indicates the mark had to do with the heavens, sun, moon, stars,, and their signs.. etc..
In my humble opinion, the Tree of Knowledge brought us
the conscience and conscious! Knowledge of good and bad.
Both words have the same latin root.
That means from being able differing between good and bad man got consciousness.
Lat. con= with.
The luciferian New-Age doctrine “Universal consciousness” then gets a very special taste …of ancient times and the first sin.
The tree of knowedge of good and evil was satan’s version of what is good and what is evil..Both tree are defined as being wisdom… Eve said the tree of knowledge was wisdom.. and proverbs 3-18 says god wisdom is a tree of life…Conscience, knowledge of what is good and or what is evil, etc could be found in godf’s wisdom.. never satan’s..
The think about this evil tree is the fruit or seed reproduced in it’s likensss as ‘God said….Adam became like satan in knowing good and evil after he injested its fruit..
genesis 3-22 says it.. and then entered humanity,,, murder, lying, idolatry, lying,polygamy,l etc.. all satan’s widom of what is good.. also entered killing of rightous men like Abel and the prophets, etc.. satan deemed these efil and had them killed..
Man still does not know good from evil from Adam’s inheritance to us..only a few do… And the koran produces likewise, Killers, liars, polygamists,, etc.. as Jesus said (The angel in rev. 10) encompasses land and sea to make one proseltye and when he is made he is two fold more a child of hell than his teachers.. MAtt 23=15.twice dead…
Ruth,
GOD made the Tree of Knowledge, you posted it already:
Genesis 2-9..And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
So when YHWH made the tree, how can it be Satans Version??
Anyways, lets put our eyes and hearts onto the Lord!
Anything else is rather unimportant!
The NWO-global government and the Beast is coming :
UN Secretary General: ‘A climate deal must include an equitable global governance structure’
BAN KI-MOON
New York Times
Monday, October 26, 2009
Silvanus..The Bible tells us who the beast is….in Rev 13-1…John stands on the SAND OF THE SEA and sees the beast rise up..The Bible identifies Ishamel and those he mixed seed with as being as THE SAND OF THE SEA SHORE…
Jesus spoke of the SAND FOUNDATION in Matt7…The broad way complete with false prophets (same false prophets as the earth beast)…This broad way is built on SAND FOUNDATION…..John is standing on the SAND FOUNDATION in rev13-1
Rev 20 -8. says satan GATHERS AND DECEIVES the men who are numbered as THE SAND OF THE SEA to battle Jesus..
I ask you,,,how would satan and his group battle Jesus except by lying about the bible, killing CVHristians and setting up a counterfeit of God’s works with Abraham, and man …His counterfeit is Ishmel blood lines to false messiah mohammed with his false gospel of koran and false teaching of Jesus, and the sprit of god…
Silvanus, Man makes rat poison too but we dont drink it…God commanded Adam and Eve to not partake of the evil tree and informed them they would die…It is not God’s wisdom that kills them.. it is satans wisdom that kills them.. and also changes them from the likness and image of god into the likenss and image of satan..This is the FIRST DEATH… Jesus said proseltyizing causes the second death as in two fold more a child of hell.. matt 23-15.. The proseltyizing would be what the pharisees of Jesus day were teaching.. and the bible shows their doctrines was identical to Islam today..The say they worship Abrham’s god.. but it is satan.. They say they are sons of Abrham but Jesus said, not sons, but SEED of Abrham,, John 8.. These also circumsize, stone women, wear long gowns,, say long prayers, deny Jesus is SON OF GOD AND DENY JESUS DEATH..Islam is the religion satan uses to force men to bow down to him..He is posing as the god of abraham.. How else would satan convince mankind he is god..
NO Ruth, the DISOBEYING and Transgression of Gods LAW killed them, not the Tree!!
GOD made that tree!!! There is nothing evil in this TREE!!!
That is true that ‘Islam is the religion satan uses to force men to bow down to him’.
Because the religion of ‘Islam’ was formulated by the Catholic Church.
I wonder where you got this weird wrong ideas from??
God doesnt creates anything evil ! That nearly is blasphemy, Ruth.
Please repent from that, i urge you
“The Bible identifies Ishamel and those he mixed seed with as being as THE SAND OF THE SEA SHORE.”
Can you give me the scripture passage?
Other Sand of the sea-prophecies in scripture are found for Ephraim and Manasseh/Israel !
Can you give me the source where Mohammed is called a Messiah, and the way, truth and life? What is the spirit of god in Islam?
Again, when Islam is bablonian it will be destroyed.
The beast will let mankind worship HIMSELF and not Allah!
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“I ask you,,,how would satan and his group battle Jesus except by lying about the bible, killing CVHristians and setting up a counterfeit of God’s works with Abraham”
Can you give me some scripture where God says that the beast will make a counterfeit within “abrahamic” religion?
Luciferians also hate christians and the bible to the bone.
And they (U.N. also) are awaiting a Messiah!
And who is in charge of the NWO, see above, the UN !
THEY are the people who due to their believes want to kill billions of useless eaters and polluters of “Mother Gaia”,
catchword “sustainable development”. Hitlers Nazims based on Bailey and Theosophy.
What do you know about Maitreya?
Hinduism, Theosophy, NewAge together are more people than Muslims (i believe).
silvanus… God created the angels… Many fell and were very evil…
Isiah 47-5..I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].
does the bible lie????
Isaiah 45-7…I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].
Right, but they were not evil at first.
They chose to leave their habitat and sin.
Now we are at the topic of free Will.
Without, we wont be able to love (or hate)
http://bible.cc/isaiah/45-7.htm
There are other translations:
NIV© I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things.
I would bet the Hebrew word is more “disaster” (an event) than “evil” in the meaning of unholiness and transgression (sinning).
But if not, i will admit i was wrong.
But consider, that God said in Genesis, EVERYTHING he created was good.
Amos 3-6, 7, 8..Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the LORD hath not done [it]? Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets…The lion hath roared, who will not fear? the Lord GOD hath spoken, who can but prophesy?
Rev 10-3..And cried with a loud voice, as [when] a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.
In revelation 10 the lion raored and God spake and then john went to preach and prophecy..Rev 11..
silvanus.. at the end of Geesis 1 everything god had created was good..
Evil did not enter till Genesis 3…evidently satan’s tree of knowledge of good and evil opend the door…
Silvanus.. I think it does not matter what I say you will believe what you want…like referring to a new world translation of the Bible.. The KJV is identical to the bible fragments from 2000 years ago..at least what they have pieced together..
So
Abigail when Islam took over about 80% of the world killing priests, and nuns and burning churches and killing Christians as they still do otday. the crusades were WHAT???/persecution…???
or an effort to save mankind from Islam/satan..
The catholic church knew mohammed was the antichrist in the 10th century…
I am not catholic nor will I ever be catholic, but they have a lot of truth and they alone kept the name of Jesus on this earth for 2000 years. shame on you….God will separate the tares from all churches.. I hope you are in a good church.. The falling away of 2 thess. 2 began a long time ago…more than one so called christian church has risen up and changed the bible and even have other gospels.. These will not make it if they do not wake up..These may become part of the babylonian system of rev17, 18..
I am in no organized churches.
All organized systems are under the anti-christ.
The true Church is hidden.
As was then so is now.
Don’t you know that God has hidden the church?
The luciferian/masonic system of which the R.C.C. is head of has always done evil in the eyes of God.
And as for your comment ‘shame on you’, I am not one bit ashamed of my Lord and Savior.
The arm of The Lord is not shortened.
I don’t need to be in an organization to serve The Lord in the Spirit of Holiness and in Truth.
You twist scriptures.
You yourself speak of ‘gospel of Islam’.
Seems to me you do not understand the meaning of the word ‘gospel.’
Ruth, the New International Version is not the only one translating “disaster”. There are various other.
I found the
Scofield Reference Notes
[1] create evil
Heb. “ra” translated “sorrow,” “wretchedness,” “adversity,” “afflictions,” “calamities,” but never translated sin. God created evil only in the sense that He made sorrow, wretchedness, etc., to be the sure fruits of sin.
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Exactly as i thought…
Consider this: James 1
13Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: ..
Amos 3 refers to war and disaster.
God creates evil, not the evil of sin, but the evil of punishment.
The evil came in the world through transgression of gods law, not through the knowledge of god and bad.
Since when knowledge of good and bad alone is evil?
You, in your daily life, you know what is good and bad, that doesnt mean you are automatically doing the bad.
silvanus..do you think the serpent told ‘Eve the truth.????
He told her she would not die..He told her she would be as god in knowing good and evil..She did die…As for being like God Eve was already like God and she had access to God’s wisdom via the tree of life..
Adam and eve did not become like god in understanding good and evil.. They became like the lying killing evil serpent.. Genesis 3-22 says it..After god informed the Adams of their fallen conditin whereas they became like the one who gave them the knoowledge of good and evil he then promptly exiled them..
And the exile was for mercy lest they eat of the tree of life in their satanic mental condition and live forever..woe is the world
see my comment below
1) Eve did not ate from the tree of life
2) she was not like god before
3) she was like god indeed after she ate
4) god is not evil
5) knowledge of good and bad is not evil
6) the word “evil” in Isaiah 45 refers to “evil” EVENTS god is sending for punishment, NOT sin
please please stop this abominable heresys
you got astray
In addition,
Gen 3:22 “And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:..”
Man became like God through knowing good and evil…
In your theory, that would mean our holy Father is evil..
Like i said, very dangerous to claim that..
Abigail..
2 corinthians 11-4..For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or ANOTHER GOSPEL, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him]
hE THAT IS COMING THAT BRINGS THIS GOSPEL IS IDENTIFIED
IN VERSE 14.. It is stan the angel of light.. Mohammed’s angel.
Galatians 1-8.. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any OTHER GOSPEL that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Islam is a preversion of the Gospel of Christ and of Christinity and Judaism…They teach old covenant testament,, they teach issa for Jesus,, allah for god and koran for the gospepl They also teach heaven, hell resurrection, judgment day,, etc.. ISLAM IS A COUNTERFEIT OF JUDAISM AND CHRISTINITY…THEY TEACH ANTOHER GOSPEL… AND SO DO SOME CHRISTIAN… and I am beginning to understand what unbelievers are …
Well i am glad that you are beginning to understand.
Mohammed did not come preaching.
He had no ‘good news’ whatsoever.
Dear Ruth, you are a special soul because Jesus loves you,
but not because you have found out some very hidden knowledge you have the mission to teach..
Remember that, and lean back..
Have some quiet time in the arms of the Lord!
May he bless you!
Silvanus there are a lot of people today that god has revealed manly things.. You do not appear to be one of them..
As for the tree of knowledge of good and evil, Eve also thought it was a good tree and would make one wise..It made her dead and it made her and humanity lose the likenss and image of god…. Jesus came to restore this likenss and image of god to mankind…it is called born again..I ask you how could a good tree cause the Adams to die and lost god’s likeness and image….
God said in gen 3-22 the man has become as one of us in knowing good and evil.. you yourself said god is not evil.. would he teach it???? even a child could understand that the adams became like the one who had given them the knowledgbe of good and evil..AND IT WAS NOT GOD…
I have nothing else to say… I think I am not in your league,, abigail and silvanus
This is not a sport Ruth.
There are no leagues here.
We must hold fast to The Truth because it is a confusing time we are in.
Simply stay close to the Lord of Heaven and earth.
I know the muslims is a religion dominated by men of war.
That was its’ beginning.
But until the day of The Lord is upon us they still may find grace.
And if you perceive them as your enemies then pray for them.
And that is the Truth of The Gospel of Jesus Christ.
‘Pray for them!!’
The whole problem is that you are confusing the knowledge of god and bad with being evil. God dont teach he IS evil, he just says he KNOWS good and evil.
What do you mean with league? Do you fight for a championship?
Come on, iam sorry for not being your opinion, but dont be angry with me/us, thats not the will of Christ Jesus.
“It is stan the angel of light.. Mohammed’s angel.”
Who is “stan” ? Just a fun 🙂
Smile, and relax, Ruth, the allmighty doesnt need anyone to do anything.
Me neither.
PS: True, Mohammeds angel was not “Gabriel” it was Satan. But that doesnt mean, that the beast is Islamic. Like i said, the Beast will have to be worshipped and not Allah. Allah is babylonian moon god, and Mystery (=Secret) Babylon will be destroyed by the Beast.
The luciferian “channelings” also invoke demons and they have also contact with angels “of light”. Blavatsky for example.
Or David Spangler, Director of Initiative at the U.N..
He writes in his book:
“….Lucifer works within each of us to bring us to wholeness, and as we move into a New Age, which is the age of man’s wholeness, each of us in some way is brought to that point which I term the Luciferic initiation, the particular doorway through which the individual must pass if he is to come fully into the presence of his light and his wholeness. … At some point each of us faces the presence of Lucifer. We either fear it when we come to grips with what we term ancient evil or the spirit of darkness, or we move throughit and realize that we are each of us light and dark. … When we do accept it, we can emerge into the radiance of our inner light, the light that can never be extinguished. … Lucifer comes to give to us the final gift of wholeness. If we accept it then he is free and we are free. That is the Luciferic initiation. It is one that many people now, and in the days ahead, will be facing, for it is an initiation in the New Age. … In the New Age consciousness there is not good and evil.” | David Spangler, Lorian Association, Reflections on the Christ, Findhorn Publications p. 40, 44-45,
Ruth you are doing fine. I understand your point.
And I understand the points others (Abigail, Silvanus, cornish) have made.
There is a lot of opinion based on interpretation of symbolism in the scriptures.
Everyone:
here is a post written by Bee..what do you think of what she wrote?
https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/garden-of-eden-and-the-trees-of-lebanon/
– I raise this up since there was a discussion of the “trees” in the garden of eden.
I am going to temporarily close this section. I think people need a rest and change of topic. I will reopen it at a later time.