How does Gog and Magog relate to Armageddon?

Many are discussing an upcoming, final world war, even if they are unbelievers in Christ. How does the biblically predicted battle of Gog and Magog fit into this scenario?


First of all, it appears that the battle of Gog and Magog is NOT the battle of Armageddon (the final war of nations).

Armageddon – attack first from the east, and then an attack by the entire world. They come to one place:

Rev 16:12 the kings east of the Euphrates come.

Rev 16: 14 the kings of the earth and the whole world come (this would include Gog and Magog)

*** I personally think that the “whole world” is not literal. I think it means all those who are personally against Israel, or the Antichrist. If current attitudes prevail at that time, the “whole world” will be represented by those who have an interest in the region, the power that would go with it, and the willingness to fight.

Certain countries, especially Europe, have demonstrated such a cowardice and passivity to terrorism, and other real threats, that they would choose to allow the enemies to invade their countries, rather than fight back. It would be hard to imagine tiny neutral countries, like Iceland and the Philippines, to be involved at all.

I think this passage refers to such a massive amount of troops, that it seems like the “whole world” is involved. But maybe I am wrong.

Rev 16: 16 they all gather in the valley of Armageddon. (Har Megiddo)

*** the Battle of Armedeggon is also described in Zechariah 12-14, where “all nations” come against Jerusalem. The Messiah comes at this point to the Mount of Olives, an earthquake occurs, and Israel is delivered from her enemies, who are destroyed. The Lord strikes the enemies with a plague, and their flesh dissolves.

Gog and Magog – Attack from the north only, which covers the land:

Eze 38:2 Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy,

Eze 38:3 And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I [am] against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

***Gog, Magog, Meshech and Tubal are associated in some way. The English translation adds “against him” after the word “prophesy,” but the Hebrew does not say this. These could be 4 separate, but geographically close, regions with their own rulers. Originally, in ancient times, they were all associated with the Middle eastern countries, especially Turkey. Also remember that the Ottoman empire used to control the region.

Gog’s alliance with certain countries only

Eze 38:4 And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all your army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts [of armor, even] a great company [with] bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:

***think about who, in modern times, would use swords in battle.

***notice he is using horses. The fall of Babylon is associated with a battle using horses (Rev. 14:20).

Why would modern forces use horses?????

Has a missile defense system knocked out the power, and reduced the area to the 19th century conditions?

Eze 38:5 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet

***Persia is Iran. Ethiopia and Libya are in North Africa.

Eze 38:6 Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: [and] many people with thee.

***Gomer – descendent of Japheth, son of Noah. Gomerites were found in Galatia, which is in modern Turkey. Togarmath is a descendent of Gomer. With general migration of population, many interpret Gomer as Europe. Some interpret Magog as “north” but the bible does not give a location.

Gog’s attack against Israel and his defeat

Eze 38:15 And thou [Gog] shall come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army:

***Notice Gog is north of Israel. Many believe that Russia is also involved as descendents of Japeth, and because Russia is also north, with cities named after ancient origins.

Eze 38:18 And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, says the Lord GOD, [that] my fury shall come up in my face.

Eze 39:4 Thou shall fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that [is] with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and [to] the beasts of the field to be devoured.

***Gog gets destroyed in the mountains, not a valley like Megiddo, and becomes bird food.

Magog is destroyed by fire

Eze 39:6 And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I [am] the LORD.

Eze 39:9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the hand staves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:

*** there are islands close to Magog. There are islands in the Red Sea near Ethiopia, one of Gog’s allies. Also, there are numerous small islands in the Persian Gulf.

*** what kind of weapons take 7 years to burn? This is one possibility:

The general evil nature of Gog and Magog will persist until the very end when Satan is loosed once more after 1000 years for a final battle.

Rev 20:8 And [Satan] shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom [is] as the sand of the sea.

Gog and Magog today

The nations of Ezekiel 38 must be taken literally. When that is the case, you find that Magog, the place where Antichrist comes from, is right in the heart of the territory that Satan has always controlled. Ezekiel’s Gog is the enemy from the north (Ezechiel 38:15). In the Old Testament, the king of the north has reference to the areas of Syria, Turkey, and Iraq (Babylon).

****Iran is to the north east, and is involved. Persia (Iran) is mentioned in the attack as an ally.

**** also an ally are 2 kings from the south in this battle – Ethiopia and Libya.

That territory has come down through history in the hands of many nations: Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Grecia, Rome, Muslim and Hashemite. Those are the Empires and Kingdoms that have occupied the land of the Bible.

Possible Location # 1 of Gog and Magog

Meshech, Tubal, Togarmah, Dedan and Syria traded with Tyre six centuries before Christ [Ezek.27:13-16]. These lands clearly define the north. The fact that some scholars equate the names of ancient Middle East cities with modern English cognates seems wrong. Meshech is NOT Moscow; Moscow just had its 850th birthday. The Hebrew word ‘rosh’ is translated head or chief 423 times in the Old Testament. Rosh is not Russia. Although it may be involved in end time events, the kings of the north have historically acted against Israel, whether Russia helped or not.

All atlases of the Bible printed before the 1940’s [and the Russian scare] show the land of Gog to be in Turkey, and Magog to be in the Northern part of modern day Iraq, just north of Bagdadd. Meshech and Tubal are in the area that today is Turkey and portions of northern Syria as well as northern Iraq. This is the center of the former Ottoman empire, which could re-form.

However, if the view is correct that these groups have spread out over time, and went “more north,” then the following maps might represent the Gog and Magog areas.

Possible Location # 2 of Magog

Jewish Talmudic studies however, identify the regions of southern Iran, Afghanistan, and all of Pakistan as the “land of Magog.” Magog is Germania/Germaya/Gitya, which is a province in Persia. (Jerusalemite Talmud, tractate Megila, chapter 1, Halacha 9, page 10A). According to Josephus, Magog founded those that from him were named Magogites, but who are by the Greeks called Scythians. (Antiquities 6:1)

The Scythians were an Iranian nomadic people who spoke Iranian language, but their origins is unknown. The Sakas are considered to be a branch of Scythians by most scholars. Saka is the usual Persian term, while Scythian is a Greek term. (i.e. Saka in Persian is Scythian in Greek).

Further studies have identified the overall current region named Baluchistan as the old Magog/Gitya, and it is actually divided today between three countries: Iran, Pakistan and Afghanistan. In western Pakistan, there’s also a province names Baluchistan, next to the Iranian Baluchistan. They have also concluded that Gog, is not from Magog, but that Gog and Magog are 2 different nations, and that there will be a war between the 2 of them.

***It looks like Gog is from Turkey and Magog is from Iran/Pakistan/Afganistan. There may be a battle still between Sunni and Shiite Muslims or regions over whose leader will be their final Mahdi. The winner takes the territory over. There is a passage in Daniel 7 where it describes the “little horn” taking over 3 regions. Maybe if there is a battle between Gog and Magog, it is related to the battle waged by the little horn. If so, then the players (Gog and Magog) will be better identified.

Gog is the president of one of the nations, whom Rabbenu Saadia Gaon compared to the Moslem Caliph in his days, because Gog will also rule many peoples. Gogana used to be the name of a port city on the Persian Gulf, which is today called Bandar-e Kangan, in Iran. Therefore Gog, in this view, represents Iran, and Magog represents the Baluchistan regions of Iran, Pakistan and Afghanistan. Magog, in this viewpoint, covers the territory that al Qaeda occupies.

Short term consequence of the defeat

Since Gog and its allies will experience a major defeat, this weakens them to conflicts with neighboring nations. Possibly, a Shitte nation like Iran (Persia), an ally of Gog, would be weakened to such a point that it could be overcome by neighboring Sunni countries. This could allow the Mahdi, if a Sunni, to consolidate his kingdom, or empire.

A united Arab world under a Mahdi

It is possible, from either Location #1 or #2, that the next Islamic leader (Gog) will be from Iran or Iraq/Turkey, and that he will become the chief prince. He would rule Turkey and the northern part of Syria along with Iran/Iraq, which is a good part of the Old Hashemite Kingdom [currently only represented by Jordan, and Saudi Arabia, which pays due to Jordan].

Note that the areas that make up the “head” on the map below of the ancient Grecian “empire map.” This is the general area predicted by Daniel the prophet to produce the last ruler that opposes Israel.

An effort to make a reasonable evaluation of this

This is the Muslim world now, which includes the areas under discussion

Only the dark green area is Shiite. The rest of the Muslim area (light green) is Sunni. It would be reasonable to assume that if Islam had a ruler who would unite the Arab world, it would NOT be a Shiite, but a Sunni. The Shiites have a more elaborate anticipation of the Mahdi, but sheer numbers indicate that the Sunni world will not follow a Shitte leader. As much as the Shiites think otherwise, it appears more reasonable that Iran and its Shiite satellite groups would eventually integrate into the Sunnis to be under one leader. However, I could be wrong. Sometimes a smaller, but more determined group can win against a larger, more passive enemy.

Where would the Mahdi live?

The book of Daniel indicates the ruler and empire that would be most active against Israel will be from the area of the ancient Grecian empire. This narrows the location of the Mahdi. Also, it would be a Sunni area. From other Biblical prophesies (Rev 16), I would also expect the leader to be from a region that is close to the Euphrates River. This narrows it down again.


This area of origin for the Mahdi (area of united Gog/Magog) would be Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Syria, Iraq, Turkey, Iran, Kuwait, and the other surrounding areas. Notice the primary Shiite area, Iran, is not near the Euphrates. It is fed by the Tigris River instead. So, it is my opinion that the Mahdi, to the disappointment of Ahmadinejad, will not be from Iran. But time will tell if I am right or wrong.

Islams’ view of Gog – just to make this more interesting.

“Muhammad has foretold the return of Jesus (Isa in Arabic), who will materialize when a false claimant to divinity (the Dajjal-Christians) will attempt to misguide humanity into worshiping him.

Jesus will descend from the heavens in Damascus, pray behind Imam Mahdi, pursue and kill the Dajjal (Christians), destroy the savage and unbelieving armies of Gog and Magog and bring peace and brotherhood to the world. Christians will recognize the truth, and accept him only as a Messenger of God; the religion of God (Islam) will justly rule the world.”

Curious Note:

It is so odd to me, that the Christians think of the Muslims as unbelievers, and the Muslims think of Christians as the unbelievers. It amazes me that the Muslims think that Jesus would destroy the Christians, his own followers. I will be glad when Jesus gets here to straighten all this out. It is strange to me as a Christian, that the Muslims think they will be fighting the “unbelieving armies of Gog and Magog,” when, from all biblical definitions, THEY ARE Gog and Magog.

See also:

What kind of Covenant will the Antichrist confirm? Click here for more

God’s war on terror – the 200 million man army Click here for more

IS the woman who sits on 7 hills really Rome? Click here for more

Why are horses used in the battle of end times? Click here for more

4 horses – 4 horns – 4 beasts of Zechariah and Revelation Click here for more

The 7 year end time covenant in years and days Click here for more

The 4th Beast of Daniel and Revelation – The Antichrist Click here for more


567 Responses to “How does Gog and Magog relate to Armageddon?”

  1. […] in Christ. How does the biblically predicted battle of Gog and Magog fit into this battle? Click here for […]

  2. Prophecy September 07

    The Word of the Lord came unto me in a vision recently, it greatly troubled me as the vision was so specific. I saw wickedness on the earth which was afflicting man.

    The Lord showed me that behind every wicked evil sin, sickness, disasters, floods, earthquakes etc, was the work of demonic evil powers. The Lord showed me that the earth has become vile in every sense of the word. By opening and shutting my eyes I could control how much of the wickedness of mankind I would see in the vision.

    Then my attention was brought to a vision of heaven, I saw Jesus Christ flying through the heavens. I saw Him very clearly, He was dressed in white apparel, with a mighty sword raised in His right hand, His hair was black flowing behind Him as He surged across the heavens.

    I looked upon His face, it was the face of a mighty warrior, it reminded me of the scripture in Ezekiel 38:18, “Saith the Lord God, that my fury shall come up in my face.”

    Then I saw a gathering of men, which I believe now to be the four and twenty elders who are depicted in the book of Revelation 4:10, who worship Him that liveth forever and ever, who cast their crowns before the throne saying, “Thou art worthy O Lord to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things for thy pleasure they are and were created.”

    Then they began to peel off one from another, they must have been conversing with Jesus, for then again I saw Christ streaking across the heavens with His sword raised in His right hand, for then I saw summoned before Him priests, multitudes of priests preparing to blow their trumpets, dressed in white garments, and behind them I saw multitudes of other priests quoting the Word of God, and behind them, the armies of heaven, and an angelic army of angels which could not be numbered, assembled for a great battle which was soon to take place.

    Then I saw a vision of the earth, of mighty armies preparing to fight a mighty war, in my spirit I believe that they were coming against Israel. I saw huge tanks, and soldiers marching between the tanks, I saw armies upon armies from all nations, marching with their weapons, I saw soldiers on horse back.

    Again it reminds me of the scripture in Ezekiel 38:15,16, “And thou shalt come from thy place out of the north parts, thou, and many people with thee, all of them riding upon horses, a great company, and a mighty army: and thou shalt come up against my people Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O gog before their eyes.

    Then my vision returned unto the heavens once again, again Christ appeared in the heavens. Then I saw the face of God, not clearly, He summoned His Son, then Christ presented Himself immediately into His presence. Then His Father spoke to Him words that I could not hear, then I saw Jesus turn as if He had received His orders and was ready to give the command for the trumpeters to blow the battle cry.

    Do read Ezekiel last days prophecy in ch 38:39. Many Bible scholars believe that this great battle will take place soon, as Russia and its Arab allies prepare to come against Israel, many believe that the rapture will take place during or just after this great event, when Jesus defeats these nations,

    Christ will let His people know that He is the God of Israel. Ezekiel 38:23, “Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the Lord.” “JESUS”.
    Web page –

  3. Dear Cornish evangelist,

    Thank you for the Word. It is timely, and reads like what could be in tomorrow’s newspaper. With Iran, the USA and Israel up in arms, something appears to be imminent.


  4. Perhaps, this area in question develops one currency like the E.U.Like the E.U. they sign a pact to defend fellow members should thier be a war.

    Israel defends herself from the moon god worshipers around her, like Hamas, and Hizboallah. Israel defeats them, but brings a larger war on herself through the said pact.

    We should see one type of money for most of the middle east within the year.

    Scary stuff. I should have, and be in my bunker by then.

  5. Hi Leatherneck,

    True, Israel has some tough times ahead. I am glad God is on her side.


  6. Another possibility: The Bible says that the day of the Lord starts when people are saying, “peace and safety.” Yet Jesus said that the last 3 and 1/2 years would be have so much distress that no life would be saved unless those days were “cut short” by his return. How could this be? Note that Gog invades an Israel at peace, but that invasion is not Armageddon, right?

    But could there be a way that this invasion of Gog might actually be Armageddon? In a word: Yes. Let me explain. I believe that Gog will be the Antichrist who invades at the 3 and 1/2 year mark of Daniel’s final seven—when Israel will indeed be at peace. All throughout the OT, the day of the Lord starts when Israel is at peace because she has signed a false peace treaty. So when will Israel be at peace? When she signs the seven year peace agreement of Daniel 9:27.

    Daniel says that the Antichrist will set up the abomination that causes desolation at the 3 and ½ year mark of this treaty. Jesus says the same thing: when you see the abomination spoken of by the prophet Daniel-Israel should flee to the mountains. Luke 21, however, in a direct parallel verse, states “When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, flee to the mountains.” The Antichrist invasion cause the nation of Israel to flee, as Jesus states in Matthew 24. Then, after the Islamic Antichrist has ruled in Jerusalem for the last 3 and 1/2 years, the final events of Ezekiel 39 take place. If you compare Ezekiel 39 with Revelation’s Armageddon, there are exact word for word phrase matches.

    Ezekiel 39: 17 “Son of man, this is what the Sovereign LORD says: Call out to every kind of bird and all the wild animals: ‘Assemble and come together from all around to the sacrifice I am preparing for you, the great sacrifice on the mountains of Israel. There you will eat flesh and drink blood. 18 You will eat the flesh of mighty men and drink the blood of the princes of the earth as if they were rams and lambs, goats and bulls—all of them fattened animals from Bashan. 19 At the sacrifice I am preparing for you, you will eat fat till you are glutted and drink blood till you are drunk. 20 At my table you will eat your fill of horses and riders, mighty men and soldiers of every kind,’ declares the Sovereign LORD.

    21 “I will display my glory among the nations, and all the nations will see the punishment I inflict and the hand I lay upon them. 22 From that day forward the house of Israel will know that I am the LORD their God.

    Revelation 19:17-19 (New International Version)

    17And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and mighty men, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, small and great.”

    19Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to make war against the rider on the horse and his army.

    Also, Ezekiel states that Gog is “the one all the prophets have spoken of…” And Ezekiel also states, “This is the day I have spoken of….” I have studied every text about the day of the Lord, and they all say the same thing: a rebellious Israel will be allowed to be invaded by a God who is angry at her. Then he will return and strike the northern army who invaded her…(Joel) Now why will God be angry at Israel?

    Perhaps because she will start sacrificing again when he has given his only son. This is why in context of the end times, God says in Isaiah, “I reject your sacrifices!” The Bible also says that “because of rebellion, the Antichrist will be allowed to invade and take over Israel. I love Israel! But this is what the Bible says. And this is how Ezekiel 38 and 39 could fit in to the last 7 years.

    Alan Brooks

    In a message dated 11/13/2008 4:11:55 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, writes:
    Hi Al

    I totally agree with you. I hope others see this soon.


  7. Hi AL

    It does seem logical that the Gog war is Armageddon. I have at times thought of it as a different war with different people. In Zech 12 ALL nations come against Jerusalem, which is Armageddon, but in the Gog war, only certain nations are involved.


  8. I’m not to sure about an Islamic anti-Christ. Perhaps, the false prophet is Islamic to mislead the Muslims even more than they are mislead now.

  9. Hi Leatherneck

    This is one theory about the antichrist. There are other theories too. I talk more about the Islamic one here:

    Time will tell, I guess.


  10. You might want to update your blog….It seems that tensions are rising to limit in palestine and Israel as Israel crushes the terrorists.
    As Troops Enter Gaza City, Israel Sees an Opening
    Published: January 11, 2009

    btw, marianne; based on your view, you sound LDS. is that so?

  11. Dear AngelMarauder,

    If I updated this particular blog, on this topic, I would have to do it daily! 🙂

    I do not think of myself as leaning to a particular denomination. I am not sure what LDS says about this. I just read the Bible and think about what it says.

    One thing I need to do better is keep up with different topics I post. Sometimes I put links to other posts, which, in a way, update earlier posts, or at least expand on what they say. Thanks for making me think to do this.


  12. Alright. I was just noticing it on my own and googled all the way to here.
    So is that Lu Bu who is going to be leading the charge? 🙂

  13. Hey Stephe,

    Who is the Lu Bu?

    ha ha ha …….

    I guess we will find out in the near future, based on the way things are going now.

    blessings and good cheer

  14. That character on the top of the topic. It looks like a character from Dynasty Warriors III.
    at 53 seconds on this is an ok representation.

  15. Hi Stephe,

    Maybe that is what it is…..I got the picture from the images section of the internet….so maybe it is from Dynasty wars….!! 🙂


  16. The dynasty of Jacob vs the dynasty of Isaac, it seems.

  17. Hi Stephe,

    I do not understand your comment. Jacob was the son of Isaac. Did you mean a different name?


  18. oops, meant Ishmael. Not Isaac!

  19. Hi Stephen,

    Ok. That makes more sense! 🙂

    I agree with you.


  20. It is so odd to me, that the Christians think of the Muslims as unbelievers, and the Muslims think of Christians as the unbelievers. It amazes me that the Muslims think that Jesus would destroy the Christians, his own followers.

    This part is not correct. Being a Muslim i can tell you that it is prophesied that the Muslims AND Christians will fight together against the anarchist( Dajjal, Anti Christ) and Gog Magog.

    By all reasons and probability the final war will be against Jews, and possibly the modern Christian sects who are soft to the Jews. ( whom we think the Jews have strayed and are controlling by proxy).

    In all this I will be interested to know the non-Muslim reason to my question
    ” why do you think that out of the final war the jews will be spared ? After all Jews acted against Jesus, Jews didn’t listen to Moses, and Jewish Kabbala teaches Magic, which neither Islam nor Christianity allows”

    you are welcome to write to me

    • the bible says that the jews will experience tribulation, known as the time of jacob’s trouble. a remnant of the jews will be spared because they are still God’s chosen and loved people. they will be saved out of this tribulation and when Jesus returns they will finally receive Him as Messiah. God calls them “the apple of His eye.” He has alway chastized them whenever they turned from Him, but He will never completely destroy them. anyone whom tries to destroy them will be destroyed. that included any so-called christians or muslims.

      • yep but u forgot that the real faith of jews and christianity in the begining was submition to only one god and to believe his messengers. and there is a fact that a real house of jews spread in territories like afganistan today and they are jews by origin and they believed all prophets and the last one too. they will be the last glorious army of jesus a.s. and they destroy the NWO and the ashkenazi jews that are not real jews and the other troublemakers of the world. today who has stolen your money and gold, by printing money paper… gog magog jews america israeli g-britain club and the other club of rusia and friend.. they destroy the earth, kill people, burn lands, spread corruption, kill animals, dry lakes, etc and in top of that the great sign of islam the day they spread on earth they dry of galilea lake or sea and gues who drying it off…. see the facts before u speak, read bible the revelation where satan is imprisoned for a thousand years… and after he calls for gog & magog in all earth. who do u think was the guardian,, do math.. islam imprisoned the devil or his capacity to spread corruption on earth, and the time came when muslims let the ropes and the club satan/antichrist/gog&magog superpowers corrupted earth. read tesla, free energy, georgia guidestones, codex alimentarius, mathias rath, etc than come face muslims again… if u dont read facts than what reality and truth are u claiming … hope u open u eyes

        • ah and are at least two new ghospels found in this modern era and they date at least some hundred years before islam, and they prove what quran says.. now they are in u hand search for them, vatican has them to but they dont speak.. and 99% of jews today are not bany israil (sons of israil) they are khazars, search wiki and youtube and others and se who is the real gog the chief of magog, and this is not a islam teaching because muslims are long time now… fighting each other and this is all this great conspiracy/nwo/illuminati agenda … see the last speech of pres. john f. kennedy before they kill him, what did he say and what did he sign…
          and smth other churcil in 1950 (hope this is ecxact year) identified the 2 superpowers that emerged wwII like gog&magog new worl order… id like u too hear this man “imran hosein” in youtube and google video and see some of his lesons perhaps he can clear smth u want to know, most of muslims today dont listen to him but all he has said till now seem to coincide with reality, he was part of UN for at least 10 years, he blasted your money stealing by world government and worldbanks etc… see for u self people what are they doing to us and to you too… they dont have any mercy on noone at all, even all children in all the world, vaccines kill (my son got autism because) and many other destruction in earth today (see chemtrails)… what are u doing fighting one another and we have reason to do that. when jesus comes if we are wrong (but i doubt) we will follow him, and u want to follow him too than let the time come and he decides who is right or wrong.. peace or we will not survive the wwIII that they are doing to decrease our number and increase satans army..

  21. Hi Salman,

    Every time I hear that name, I think of a friend I went to graduate school with. He was a nice person.

    To answer your question, according to the Bible, the final war will be against Israel, as the Antichrist will be there, but the jews will be spared. There are many promises in the bible that AFTER god scattered the Jews to the nations of the world, to initially punish them, He would then gather them back in the last days, to return to Israel. As he does this, His holy spirit will touch their hearts, he will renew the covenant with them, and help them keep their land.

    This does not mean others cannot live there also, but it does mean the Jews are entitled to live in the land of Israel. God wants them located there for his purposes, and not scattered all over the world. So we should submit to God’s desire, and not our own over the land there.

    Although the Arab press is against it, for political, religious, and racial reasons, Zionism is actually God’s idea. I have some posts on this, with the proof from scripture. People should sincerely reflect on this proof, and submit to God’s purpose, and not their own. It is God’s intention to rebuild the final temple, reinstate the sacrifices and feasts, and the Jews are there to work for Him, to give him glory. They are to be his servants in the land, and help administrate when Jesus comes.

    The final war, according to both old and new testament prophets, will liberate the Israelis from oppression of the Antichrist, who will be persecuting them for their faith. During this time, many of them will realize who Jesus is, accept him as Messiah, and be willing to die for their purified faith in God. They will do this, rather than submit to an evil man, who will make himself god, and pollute the temple, or whatever structure they are using for one.

    This new faith and new heart will be due to 2 holy witnesses who will come to preach god’s truth and salvation to them. We do not know who they are yet, but the entire world will know when they get there, because they will perform miracles, and be on fire for God. Some think that it will be the return of Moses and Elijah who do this teaching. The Antichrist will kill them, they will be dead for 3 days, and then rise again from the dead by the power of God. This will cause a revival among the Jews and others in the world.

    Salvation, not destruction, is God’s purpose. It says in scripture that he wishes NONE to perish. God constantly reaches out to all people, to come to him in love. He does not give up on people like we do.

    One thing Jesus will do when he gets here to defeat the Antichrist is to make sure everyone has a place to live. Both the Israelis and the Palestinians will not have to fight. Everyone will have what they need. They will all have safe homes, and be able to live in peace. Man will constantly fail to achieve peace until Jesus comes. So it is useless to try to intervene to help one group fight the other one. Only God can bring peace.

    Israel belongs to God, not man. We have to respect his purpose there. It is not for just one group of people, but for all peoples and nations to come there to honor God. It was predestined to be a place of truth, peace and light that would spread around the world, and heal mankind. He could have picked a different spot, but he didn’t. Perhaps it is because it is near or very near the original garden of eden, and the garden will be restored when Jesus returns.


  22. we muslim believe that gog and magog unbeliver which is russia and china. komizm. muslim beieves bible and torah send by Allah.we believe same god with you. difference is jesus is a prophet for us. but you believe jesus son of god. and angel gabriel is only angel.not god. trinity comes from nimrod. nimrod his wife semiramis and their son tammuz. this consept pass egypt. osiris,isis and sun god. then roman empire. there were king and princess then you made him jesus son of god.if it true why do you pray on sunday not sonday

    • the trinity doesn’t come from nimrod. the bible teaches that satan masquerades as a angel of light. he is a great counterfeiter. all false religions are an attempt of satan to counterfeit the truth. if you read the story nimrod died. later semirimis gave birth to tammuz whom she claimed was a reincarnation of nimrod. there is no resemblance to the Christian God here. God the father, the son and the holy spirit have always existed eternally. God has no wife. try to understand it this way. We are created in God’s image. We are made up of a body soul and spirit, just as He is. one person, three inseparable parts. NOT three Gods. Only one.

    • Todd, I agree with your statement.
      Your rendition of Christianity is not what I follow as a Christian. Gabriel is taught as god? Never heard that before. Maybe I am new to that teaching?? (NOT trying to make waves, but possibly Catholic?? I am not Catholic. I was pulled in by God HIMSELF to study, learn and live for HIM. And to teach my two boys His Word with what He gives me and what I am willing to receive.) I also believe that the ‘Jews’ that are not Jews are the focus here. Not only them, but any that practice anything not according to the LOVE of God. (more to this.)
      Gabriel is a messenger angel who spoke the words of the coming of God’s Salvation.
      I see much corruption in the basic understanding of what true Christianity is (and OH, how rare it is!!). Pray to NO ONE but The Father. Not to a “saint” or a cross, or a false idea of who God is. Be cleansed and follow the life that Christ Jesus led. Fully submitted and a living sacrifice to THE FATHER, God Almighty. Peace, love, forgiveness of sins after learning what sin IS… (which i s hidden in the heart of ‘man’, not visible to the human eye) true and full repentance. Putting off ones own self for the WILL of the Father. Sacrificing ones self for the LOVE of God and for the LOVE of PEOPLE. Taking care of one another. Sharing the wealth and blessing even the enemies in hope that they turn from the evil that surrounds them, if so, unwittingly.
      (The adversary comes to kill, steal and destroy. BUT Christ has come that they might have life and have it more abundantly. TRUE life, from the Spirit of God. With out Him, we all, no matter what “faith” or sect, will fail. Is a mere human worthy and powerful enough to do as God said in regard to salvation? NO. But IN these people that sacrifice their selfish ego’s to the LORD, put them off and live FOR IN AND TO God, HIS SPIRIT shines forth IN them. It is HIM IN the living sacrifices, not the people them selves. They are WILLING, hear and obey His Word. And the Word was WITH God. And the Word was God. So hard to hear God’s Word through fleshy ears.)
      God said that vengeance was HIS. Not ours. Though He will use the hardness of the pride of humans to bring them their desires. TRUTH. Absolute TRUTH.
      Over all, I personally revert back to 1 Corinthians 13. This is what God Almighty called me with. His very nature. And after much self delusion and satanic attack, I finally ran to The Father in GREAT repentance, still dirty in my filth. Still am as He cleanses me from the inside out. The process of sanctification. He is so very faithful!!
      I thank Him daily for another opportunity to serve Him in truth and with love.
      I pray every moment of every day. Not sunday. And honestly, The “Sabbath” is The Lord’s Day. I pray for each decision that I make. Is it for Him? Or is it for me… Is it for His Glory? Or is it to do what I think is best. Rightly dividing the Word in ones heart. We NEED to take care of what Spirit we are of. So cunning the adversary is. But those that TRULY desire the Almighty God will know Him. He spoke it.

      May God bless His Word forever more! May HIS peace and wisdom come forth through all here. To encourage, bless and bring us all to our knees with honest and thorough repentance… to cleanse the hidden parts of our souls.

      (Btw, this is just my opinion from my short years on this planet. Please help me to see more truth if I need correction. Praise The Lord God Almighty.)

  23. Hi huseyin

    Many Christians believe that gog and magog is Russia also. This definition of gog and magog is for debate. It depends on which scriptures are used, and which historical records, like ancient maps.

    Gog is enemy of Israel, because it attacks it. But ancient locations of people cannot 100% predict future times, because ancient peoples move to new areas. What people were in Turkey 4000 years ago are not the same ones that are there today. So, do we use the ancient maps to predict who gog is, or do we look at where the people moved to?

    Trinity definition is based on Catholic church doctrine. This is not what Jesus said. He said he was God’s son, not not God, who is “the Father.” We have to understand what Jesus meant when he said that. The Father made everyone in heaven. He came first. Everyone else came after they were created. Some were angels of different kinds. Jesus was part of this heavenly family. He had a special close relationship with the Father, so he is called the Son. There was no wife to make him, since God is all powerful, and does not need a wife to do anything. Only the Father is God.

    Then the Father sent Jesus to earth for a special mission. Jesus made it clear that the Father was his God too, and he was just an obedient son. Jesus prayed to the Father, and told others to do this too. Because Jesus was to represent the Father on earth to people, the Father gave him special qualities and abilities, so that people could witness some of these qualities by seeing Jesus.

    So Jesus had some divine powers and qualities, because the Father gave them to Jesus. This way, he could perform miracles and heal people. God expects us to honor Jesus for his sacrifice for us, and his love. But people always get what god want confused, and they introduce mistakes. So, I do not agree with catholic church.


    • In the beginning was the Word (Jesus) and the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through Him all things were made. All the fulness of the Diety resides in Him.

  24. I have to say I’m offended. Nearly every single European country you can name has been fighting terrorism for many decades, long before the Middle East situation. The IRA in the UK, ETA in Spain, simply because we do not parade these conflicts and our grief in front of the world stage does not mean we are not fighting or that we are cowardly. The fact remains – as demonstrated in Northern Ireland, and currently in Israel – that a like-for-like, tit-for-tat approach to terrorism simply encourages terrorism, destabilises entire regions, and leads to death and devastation on an infinitely increasing scale. We have learnt this the hard way, and that is why our internal terrorist situations don’t make such headlines – because we know how to deal with them. And which European countries have allowed themselves to be invaded by terrorists rather than fight? Name some, because I’ve certainly missed that newsflash.
    Secondly, you can’t imagine little countries like Iceland getting involved because, what, they’re small? Both Iceland and the Philippines were involved in WWII – Iceland was of incredibly high strategic value and was strictly controlled throughout the conflict, and the Philippines fought hard to resist Japanese invasion.
    I appreciate this isn’t the point of the article, but these comments are so ill-informed that they bring the rest of the article down. And as they don’t actually have any actual relevance to the rest of the article maybe it would be best if you edited them out.

    • Hi Sophie,

      I did not mean to offend.

      Jihad takes 2 forms:
      1. violence/ war
      2. persuasion/ propaganda

      First of all, the Europeans are good and nice people. This is not about their character, but how they have been flooded with propaganda and media, to sway them in certain political and religious directions.

      The purpose of the propaganda is to isolate America and Israel from others, so they can both be controlled and/or destroyed.

      Muslims have proven that they can win a propaganda war in Europe. Most of Europe rejects Israel now, and blames it for everything, showing they believe the propaganda. They also turned against fighting terrorism in the middle east, believing the lies that America is murdering millions of people there.

      if you look at the population profile of European countries, the Muslim population is taking a significant portion of each country, enough to influence the politics.

      If they win the propaganda war, then they do not need to wage open war. All they need to do is make a few threats, and the entire country gives in. This has already been seen in France and Spain.

      Countries like Iceland are just tiny. They do not have the power that bigger countries do to fight anyone. WWII is not the current war on terror. Right now, there is no significant population of Muslims in Iceland to pose a threat. All the Muslims want from Iceland is their vote in the United Nations.

      Take a look at the link I gave you. Look at the increasing populations of muslims in the countries. Once they become part of a country enough to influence it in their direction, the country becomes theirs to control, and no fighting is necessary.

      That is what I meant. I hope the Europeans can see this.


  25. Marianne
    Excuse me, but wouldn’t you want to destabilize a country that actively supports hate and terrorism against your country? It’s a better alternative than doing nothing.

    • Hi Stephen,

      Yes, most reactions would be that way. But which country are you referring to that is destabilizing the other country? Doing nothing brings defeat quicker for oneself.


  26. oops, sorry. Meant to address Sophie.
    She said that “the fact remains…”, blah blah blah. I don’t agree. I think a good example would be the war on terror. And even Israel itself. In the former it actually attacks the financial support of terrorism and in the latter the people of Gaza are shown that they need to not let terrorism happen from their own state. It was shown to Lebanon effectively that if they would not do anything then Israel would, and it sucks to be you if something bad happens. You shouldn’t have let terrorism happen or have taken action to stop it once it happened. Preemptive strikes which aren’t very agreeable and would the only other option than a “tit-for-tat” approach.

    Also to add. It comes to mind that the ‘world’ would be against Israel. Doesn’t that mean the U.S., too?

  27. Hello webmaster
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  28. Hmmmm….looks fishy to me. Russia? sharing a link to your own site?

    • HI stephen

      the message does not seem to be spam, or it would be gotten in my spam folder first. Not sure yet. People from Russia are welcome here. I do not pose a threat to them, but there are strange links to avoid. Since it is an email address, I will write and let him explain what he needs.


  29. I wonder though. After World War I, Germany was in some of the worst financial conditions of any country, in all of history. We are allowing the government to take more and more freedoms and more and more power practically every day. And now they’re supposedly going to be tracking ammunition.

    I dunno. It just seems that the U.S. government is getting fishier and fishier. Grrr…

  30. Re: How does Gog of Magog relate to Armageddon ?

    It appears that The Ezekiel war is the final judgement so it will
    therefore take place after Armageeddon. In fact it will occur
    after the 1000 year reign of Christ as Rev 20:8 clearly states.
    It is an attack on the “camp of the holy ones and the beloved
    city” and remember this takse place after Jesus has reigned over
    the earth. Ezekiel 38:14 says that it will take place at a time
    when Israel is dwelling in security. If we understand security,
    in this sense,to mean without fear of threat, then Israel will
    never know this before Jesus rules. Also, it is worth noting that
    Israel during Jesus’ reign means the dwelling place of all who
    are saved because of their faith in Jesus Christ including Jews,
    not specifically Jews. God refers to this dwelling place as
    “spiritual Israel” meaning that His chosen ones are now all who
    have received His son; Jews and Gentiles alike—so this Israel
    is no longer natural Irrael. So how can we be sure that the
    Ezekiel war occurs after Armageddon.

    1) God say’s in Ezekiel 38:18-23 that He will cause the earth to
    shake and all creatures on the face of the earth will have to
    know that He is Jehovah. Nobody, at this point, will be in
    any doubt as to the existence of an Almighty God and His
    great power. So if all this takes place before Armageddon
    and many believe that it is imminent, God is then going to do
    something similar a few years later with another great war
    against Israel at Armageddon so that He can magnify Himself
    again. Can anybody explain why He would do this ?

    2) The weapons mentioned in Ezekiel are basic and made of wood
    and it will take seven year to burn them. People who believe
    that the Ezekiel war is before Armageddon naturally consider
    the weapons to be modern ones (Ezekiel only new of basic
    weapons so could not describe modern ones–as justification)
    but there is no doubt whatsover that the weaponns used in
    Rev 20:8 cannot be anything but basic ones because there
    would be no technology after Armageddon.
    If it takes seven years to burn the weapons, then will this
    undertaking be completed before Armageddon, as many believe.
    If so this places the Ezekiel war 7 years before Armageddon,
    So having cleared this mess up, Armageddon comes along and
    undoes it all. So then we have a clearing up job to do in the
    Millenium !! So why does the Ezekiel war have to take place
    7 years before Armageddon. If the Ezekiel war occurs less
    than 7 years before Armagedoon then the clearing up work will
    be interupted by Armageddon. It makes more sense to consider
    the 7 year clearing up work after the Ezekiel war to take
    place at a time when it cannot possibly coincide with any
    other event and that is after the final judgement.

    • HI Richard.

      Good points….many are waiting for the Gog/magog war now thinking it is the last war before the tribulation. it is good to clear this up.

  31. Sorry Richard, I think you are mistaken. 1) God is the protector of Israel, Satan is the motivating force behind both wars. Although his attempt to destroy Israel by rallying the forces of the Russian-Islamic armies (Gog and Magog)is indeed thwarted by Almighty Gods intervention in the “Ezekiel” war. Note that it is not Israel (or any other nation) that destroys the attacking armies, but by God’s direct intervention through earthquake, pestilence, rain,hailstone’s, fire…These supernatural weapons will create the greatest military disaster in history. When the citizens of the Gentile nations see this devastation they will know that God is the Lord of Israel. Later, Rev.12:9,13 tells of Satan’s persecution of the “woman” (Israel) Before Satan can accomplish his intended annihilation of Israel, she will be rescued again by Almighty God. The scripture (Ezekiel 38:11)speaks of “un-walled villages without gates or walls” in terms of safety, not the “security” that you are suggesting. This all happens before Christ’s millenial reign. 2) The fuel used for heating does not need to be “wood” as there would be plenty of unused fuel from the left over armaments. The preponderance of the evidence shows that the “Ezekiel” war must take place first.

  32. Hello Ian, Thanks for responding. I would like to address your comments, but before I can do so, it would be necessary to know your understanding of Rev 20:8 and Ezekiel 38 18-23
    Thank you, Richard.

  33. Greetings Richard, Rev 20:8 refers once again to Gog and Magog (direct descendants of Noah’s grandson, Magog and the Scythians from northern Asia) Although a great number of these had died in the “Ezekiel war” 1000 years earlier, Satan again rallies these armies for the final battle against the “new Jerusalem”

    • Hi Ian,

      I have always been curious about this point as well. How do these descendants manage to escape the wrath of God that comes down on the entire earth, and continue to multiply on the earth enough to generate another army? Everyone else seems to have died.

  34. Let’s also remember Solomon’s words that there is nothing new under the sun. In other words, what happened before will happen again. Can this mean that Gog and Magog (1) will happen soon, and then reform (2)at the end of the millennium when the devil is released for one last try to foil God’s promises? DavWms

  35. We can look at how Gog and Magog are decimated when they attack Israel and say, “Yes, God did it.” But is it with supernatural weapons? An observing prophet from way back might see a vision of missles coming down on the invading army and its homeland and describe it as coming from Heaven. Yes, God would be in the destruction of the invaders, but He might use men to do the work for Him. Just as He has in the past when He had men take Israel into captivity.

    It would not surprise me if He used the “young lions of Tarshish” to do more than merely ask if Russia has come for a spoil. That would be the USA, and likely the USA would also be destroyed in such a war. Finally, one of the many Bible “Babylons” being judged, and ship captains standing out at sea watching “Babylon” smoking in torment. This would leave Israel without its only friend in the world, as it will be when the anti-christ positions himself to be their “friend.” It would still be a supernatural happening, since God is in charge of whatever happens. DavWms

  36. During the 1000 year reign of Christ, the world will once again be re-populated by the unredeemed who survived the great tribulation. According to Isaiah 65, Zechariah 14 and the apostle John, the population of the earth will mushroom during this thousand years of “peace and safety”. Isaiah 65:20 says, “No more shall an infant live but a few days, nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days: for the child shall die one hundred years old, but the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed.” It is my understanding that believers will live throughout the entire period but the unregenerate will be given one hundred years to repent and accept Christ as their Lord; if they refuse to do so, they will die. This will result in a huge population by the end of the millennium. By the end of Jesus Christ’s millennial reign, many “as the sand of the sea” will be deceived by Satan in attempting to overthrow the government of the “King of Kings”. It is interesting to note that those who will have lived in the most peaceful, safe and affluent time in the history of the world (because of whom is ruling) could possibly rebel! It seems that all it takes for the wicked hearts of the unredeemed to be exposed is the release of the deceiver from his thousand year imprisonment. Their deception does not last long. There will be no battle, no call to arms or deployment of nuclear weapons. God simply devours them with fire from heaven.

    • Hi Ian

      Do you know where (in scripture) it says that the unredeemed will survive the wrath of God, so that they are still around later to repopulate? Thanks

  37. Excellent point Marianne. We have a similar problem if the
    Gog and Magog war takes place before Armageddon. Only 1/6 of the
    invading “army” will survive. “The Nations” will then have to get busy procreating to provide sufficient military so as to fight at
    Armageddon. But more importantly, IS IT LIKELY that after having
    witnessed God’s supernatural intervention and its ramifications; witnessed the trembling of the earth and all it’s people; witnessed God make His name Jehovah known to all nations; coming
    to know that OVERCOMING ISRAEL IS NOW IMPOSSIBLE –that any man
    would even dare consider waging war on Israel ever again, yet
    alone a few years later at Armageddon ?!!!
    This, indeed, will be the very last attack on God’s people and
    it is the war which will bring an end to wickedness forever.
    On one final note :If God makes Himself known before Armageddon
    then the Antichrist need not turn up !!


  38. Ian, How can any unredeemed person escape God’s wrath at Armageddon ?

  39. That’s true Stephen, but God’s mercy is demonstrated explicitly
    through His son Jesus Christ.

  40. The Redeemer and Judge of Israel is merciful to those who will humble themselves before Him. I think faithful good Muslims who would be Christians if it was in their power could be considered redeemed. But anyway anyone who is redeemed (who has His Mercy on them) are the people being saved so I don’t really know what to say.

  41. My understanding of God’s timetable for the last days:
    The next thing to happen on the prophetic calender, will be the “rapture” of the saints. This will be closely followed by the attack of Gog and Magog on Israel. A “peace treaty” is soon established with Israel brokered by the Antichrist. The signing of the “peace treaty” will signal the beginning of the seven year tribulation period. The tribulation period will commence at the “glorious Appearing” or the “second coming” of Jesus Christ. The False Prophet and the Antichrist are thrown into hell and Satan himself will be bound and cast into the bottomless pit. It is at this point that Christ and his bride (saints) will establish the New Jerusalem and begin the 1000 year millennial reign. During the reign of Christ the world is totally changed (read the last two chapters of Isaiah) The world population will mushroom during Christ’s reign. But even though growing up in a perfect world many hearts are unredeemed. So once Satan is released from his “jail” he is again able to deceive those who have rejected their king.

    Armageddon is the final, last rebellion against God by Satan and the remaining unredeemed. Rev 20:7-9

    • Hi Ian,

      The gog/magog battle is won supernaturally by Israel. Why would an Antichrist figure be needed after wards for a peace treaty, when there was just a glorious victory?

  42. Marianne:

    The majority of the citizens of Israel will not recognize that it was Jehovah (God) that had delivered them from their enemies once again, just like the days of old. Instead, I believe, that many will think the Antichrist is their deliverer or Messiah. Don’t forget that the Jews rejected Christ 2000 years ago and they are waiting for their messiah to come. The Antichrist will (falsely) take credit for this “supernatural” victory and thereby begin his deceptive campaign by signing the “peace treaty” with Israel. The scriptures tell us in Matthew 24, that the Antichrist will break this treaty (or covenant) half way through the tribulation period. This sign is identified in Matt 24:15 as the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION. Once this happens, the eyes of the Jews will be opened and they will realize that this man (Antichrist) is not their messiah and are cautioned to escape (flee). This occurs 3 1/2 years after the peace treaty was signed and is identified as the beginning of the “great tribulation”. The next 3 1/2 years are described as being the most horrific years in all history. (Matt 24: 21)

    • Hi Ian,

      The only person who could take credit for an Israeli victory is an Israeli who was there. Do you think the Antichrist is Jewish?

  43. Ian, The Antichrist may falsely take credit for this
    “supernatural victory, but who will able to hear him above
    God’s simultaneous declaration of His sovereignty.
    Please read Ezekiel chapters 38 and 39 and you will be amazed
    at the number of times that God said :


    In view of this, do you think that anybody is going to take
    any notice of the Antichrist? Do you, seriously ?

  44. Hi Stephen, God has made it possible for anyone to accept
    Jesus Christ as their saviour, if they so desire,
    regardless of their background , circumstances or
    false religious faith. Would you like to see some
    scriptures which will leave you in no doubt that
    redemption is only possible through Jesus Christ.
    This may be hard for you to contemplate just at
    the moment, but if you are sincerely seeking answers,
    please feel free to e-mail Marianne and she will
    gladly tell you everything you need to know.

    God bless, Richard.

    • Of course salvation is only through Jesus Christ. But how about people who have never had the opportunity to hear the Word?

  45. Hi Stephen Who are those who you consider have not had the
    opportunity to hear the Word ?
    (excluding those whose mental faculties do not
    allow them to assimilate the word and those
    who are geographically unreachable, it will
    be a matter of God’s mercy based on their heart

    • Anyone who does not have the opportunity to have the Word preached to them or available to them in Scripture. For example, Saudi Arabia does not allow the preaching of anything but Islam.

      • the bible says those who have the law will be judged by the law. those without it will be judged by their conscience. it says that although everyone knows the truth, they reject it. that includes every person in saudi arabia.

  46. Hi Stephen, I share your concern for these unfortunate people !!
    However, Jesus said in Matthew 24:14, that, the good
    news will be preached to ALL MEN throughout the
    ENTIRE INHABITED earth as a witness to ALL NATIONS
    before he exercises his judgement on the whole world.
    I think this says it all. As far as S.Arabia and
    other oppressive regimes are concerned, you can be
    sure that God will do what is necessary to open the
    doors so that this life saving truth gets preached.
    How he is going to do it, we don’t know, but HE WILL.
    It’s a matter of faith, knowing that God always keeps
    His promises and prophecy is always fulfilled as
    described. It is worth mentioning that Christians
    are being persecuted in S.Arabia right now, so there
    is no doubt some underground activity going on but
    not on the scale necessary to fulfill Jesus’ words.
    Hope you find this helpful Stephen.

    • I agree. All will hear the gospel before that day. Of course, all could mean every single soul or a more general all groups of people. I also am in total agreement that His Word is always fulfilled.

      I still believe that each person who has ever lived will get the opportunity to hear God’s word either in the flesh or in the afterlife. And those who live can’t be judged by a law that they have not had the opportunity to hear! Do you have any doctrinal beliefs concerning those who have not had this joyous Gospel? (I hope you don’t mind us talking here Marianne!)

  47. Hi Stephen, There’s no doubt that you have a sharp intellectual
    mind and because of this you will be looking for documented answers for every question that could be asked. This may work in the world but it is not the way God works. The intellect can never be relied upon when it comes to scriptural matters. (This is not a criticism,this is sympathy !! I’ve been there and it can be agonizing !).Remember, Christians can’t be philosophers and philosophers can’t be Christians. Christians have to surrender their minds to the “mind” of God. Philosophers are so wrapped up in their own intellectual prowess that they cannot even conceive that there could be someone with greater wisdom who has the RIGHT to tell them what to think !! That is why God said:-

    “I will make the wisdom of the wise perish and the intelligence
    of the intellectuals I will shove aside” 1 Cor. 1:19

    “God chose the “foolish” ones of the world that He might put
    the “wise” TO SHAME” 1 Cor !:27

    We are to use our intellects to reason and assimilate what we read in scripture. The HOLY SPIRIT will then convict our “hearts” with “understanding” of what we have read . This “knowing” in the heart is something the intellect by itself cannot achieve.
    You cannot bring to mind the things of God without first having had them convicted in your “heart”. This is only possible by dilligently reading His word. If our eyes do not see the words then our hearts have nothing to understand! Then it’s all down to guess work !It’s that simple ! Unfortunately most “Christians” err towards guesswork, that’s why they get fleeced by the “scholars”
    A person who takes the trouble to read God’s word will get to know
    God’s ways and the personality of His son Jesus. Again this is a
    matter of the “heart”. This “heart condition” will enable one to
    find answers to questions where scripture does not appear to have
    an answer. So getting to your point:
    All those who have ever lived will be resurrected to God’s Judgement through Jesus Christ who will do the judging.
    John 5:28-30

    Those who died before Christ and those who died, who did not
    have an opportunity to receive “The Word”, will be judged
    according to their deeds. My personal understanding of this is
    that they will be judged as if they had received or rejected “The Word”. This is possible as God can see into the hearts of all
    men, and He can know what their decision would have been had they
    had the opportunity. Whatever, we can be sure that God will
    always make the right decision as His love, justice and mercy are
    greater than the universe itself !!
    Stephen this covers all eventualities. The resurrection of the
    dead to judgemet as described in John 5:28-30 is where all
    those you are concerned about will know if they have received
    God’s favour.

    • Wow. We are the same! We believe in the same Christ! That’s neat. We believe the same things! But one difference is that I think the Word can come from Angels and men chosen by God. I don’t think the Bible is the limit though it is the writings of Christ’s ministration on Earth as well as the record of the Hebrew people and the Adamic and Abrahamic lines. Great words and I LOVE what you said about the Holy Spirit! So true that true understanding comes from Him!

      Although I love being an ‘intellectual’ I am very wary of the cunning of man. I always consider how darkly I see through the glass of my understanding! I find in all my learnings though a testimony of the God’s Goodness as well as a testimony of the evil and cunning snares that the Devil prepares.
      Matthew 7 is one of my favorite scriptures with the ending of the Sermon on the Mount. Sooo good.

      I continue to have Faith in God and search for Truth. I have considered the judging men according to what they would have done, but I think that there must be a law that each of us have responsibility whilst we live to follow. Romans 2:12 tells us that “as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law,” and the verse before says that ‘there is no respect of persons with God.” If you read on in that chapter it seems that the Gentiles have “laws unto themselves.” I wonder if that means that those who have not the fulness of the Word or any the Word would be judged according to that which the Holy Spirit has made known unto them according to their own amount of Faithfulness in those things they know is right such as loyalty or kindness or praising a Higher Being or whatever it may be that they know is right….. Those are just my thoughts.

      So great to talk to you! Your words ring true!

  48. Stephen, Don’t make light of this–this is serious !! You have a
    brilliant mind, but you are tying yourself up in knots !
    Yes, your thoughts are ten to the dozen, so you must now
    continually ask God to quieten your mind and reveal
    simple truth to you. Try not to attach too much
    importance to thinking ability–there are no prizes for
    burning your brain out. You don’t have to be clever to
    know the truth–but you can be too clever for your own
    good !! Think about it-but only a little please !!

  49. Oh I am taking this seriously! Sorry 😦
    Understanding is just my favorite thing to do in the world! I will try to settle down… reminds me of that Shaker song Simple Gifts!
    Tis a gift to be simple, ’tis a gift to be free,
    ‘Tis a gift to come down where we ought to be,
    And when we find ourselves in the place just right,
    ‘Twill be in the valley of love and delight

    But there I go again…..
    I’ll try to be reverent and calm and collected. 🙂

  50. Hello Stephen, I have a concern about what you wrote:
    “But one difference is that I think the Word can come from Angels and men chosen by God. I don’t think the Bible is the limit though it is the writings of Christ’s ministration on Earth…” I believe if you allow for other sources of “truth” outside of the scriptures you are setting yourself up for confusion and deception. John 1:1, 14 God’s word is the “litmus” test for truth. Anything that is taught, whether from the pulpit from books or the media needs to be verified through the lens of scripture. True disciples know and abide in truth… John 8: 31,32

    • But the scripture we have is what the early Catholic set up as canon scripture. There’s so much missing that the scriptures themselves mention but that we don’t access to.

      I’m glad that we have some of the writings of the Apostles and that Jewish tradition has kept their scripture if not completely intact at least mostly. Yet I believe that Scripture is not some invulnerable canon that Satan cannot touch. It doesn’t make sense that he would try to mess up everything except scripture. He has stolen much and I don’t believe that God would cease to give us Scripture and His Word because many modern Christian churches want to believe that. Those churches have no basis in that belief but still adhere to the Bible being the ends-all authority. I will trust in the Holy Ghost to give me Truth and that is the True Word, I believe. My Faith is not in the Bible but in the Word which the Bible only contains in part.

      John 21 last verse “And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.”

  51. Marianne;

    This video tells the story of Ezechiel 39 in a very graphic manner. I think your bloggers would agree. I just wanted to share.

    EZECHIEL 39 The Gog Magog War


  52. Stephen, you wrote: “Those churches have no basis in that belief but still adhere to the Bible being the ends-all authority. I will trust in the Holy Ghost to give me Truth and that is the True Word, I believe. My Faith is not in the Bible but in the Word which the Bible only contains in part.”
    What you are saying is that you have final authority, because the bible is not trust-worthy. The problem is, you are a human and therefore subject to error. The Holy Spirit will guide you to all truth, but will always agree with God’s word (scripture), not re-write it. God’s word is already complete… remember what John wrote in Rev 22: 18,19 “if anyone adds to the words of the prophecy of this book, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of this book, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.

    • I’m not trusting in myself but in the Holy Spirit! I rely in God in all things for everything I have or could have. It’s not I who have final authority but I am always eager to change to be in line with God’s will through the authority of the Spirit. And though I agree with the Bible with my heart and soul I do not agree with the interpretations of others unless the Holy Spirit signifies to me that what they say is Truth.
      I also do not agree with your interpretation of Rev 22. 1. I believe he is talking about the Book of Revelations and not the entire Bible since it (The Bible) was not even collected till 100’s of years later. Also 2 more things: Some of the books of the Bible were written after Revelations and 2 Deut 4:2 says the same thing: “Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.”

      I’m not going to discount all of the words of the apostles and Christ because Moses said not to add to his commandments which the LORD himself gave to him.

      I believe in the LORD our God Almighty and in His Spirit. But I do not believe that the churches of today are correct in the deification of the Bible. I may be human but I also have the gift of the Spirit to guide. And though if I was only as the eunuch in Acts 8 with only the Prophets to guide me I could be led by the Spirit and find testimony and everlasting life! I believe in the Bible as a source for doctrine but understanding and interpretation is of the Spirit. Glory to God for His Word!

  53. How do you know that the Holy Spirit signifies what they say is true? Is it a feeling? How do you prove that you are understanding things correctly? The true spirit of God will never contradict the written word. Just like the early church, the believers trusted the testimonies of living apostles because they were eye-witnesses. Now days we trust the written word because God has preserved it over time and it is proven to be reliable.
    Proverbs 30: 5,6 “do not add to his words”
    1John 4: 1 – Do not believe all spirits, but test the spirits to whether they are from God: because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

  54. Hi Chaps, Now let’s get this straight. If you both have the
    ‘gift of the Spirit’, you should both be in agreement,
    shouldn’t you ? Well, something is clearly wrong here,
    as the Spirit can never be self defeating. And that
    which is wrong here is PRIDE. Ian, you are an excellent
    teacher, and Stephen you are an excellent tester of the
    Spirit. Unfortunately, Stephen you will be defeated
    time and again simply because you don’t have “accurate
    knowledge of the truth”. You are going to have to admit
    that you are wrong and it is going to be PAINFUL.
    Stephen you are a good and sensitive soul, but you must
    acknowledge that you could be wrong–and it takes
    humility and courage to do this. God disciplines those
    whom he loves and that’s what you are receiving now-
    but it is going to be painful–please accept this.
    However, Stephen, you have got the substance to be a
    great winner of souls for Christ, because of the great
    sensitivity and compassion you undoubtedly have.
    So what do you want to do ? Spend your time satisfying
    your craving for intellectual stimulation, which can
    never be satisfied, or do you want to use the GREAT
    MIND God has given you, to do the only thing that
    matters, and that is: WINNING SOULS FOR CHRIST !!
    Stephen, because you have the great gift of sensitivity
    I can assure you that God will be able to do great
    things through you, that you may not think possible.
    If it’s any consolation to you, you should know that
    anyone who has come to know the ‘TRUTH’ has not done
    so without undergoing great trials, pain, reproof,
    humiliation , the crushing of pride and God’s loving
    discipline. Because knowing the ‘TRUTH’ is knowing
    our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, who because of
    his suffering for us, requires us to suffer also for
    him, but because of the ENORMITY OF THE REWARD, our
    sacrifice is but a speck of dust.

    This is what it is all about !

    Hope you don’t mind me interrupting !
    God bless you both

  55. Thank you Richard. Stephen I hope I have not offended you. These kind of discussions are good for all of us to learn, Proverbs 27:17 says: “Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another”. If you are interested please join at “One mans personal journey to hell” blog. I have some concerns with this…

  56. oops, sorry that should read: “A personal trip to hell”

  57. Hi Ian,

    Thanks for the invitation. I’ll have to be straight about this
    Ian, I would not waste one second on these things. They are a com-
    plete waste of time ! I will take it a stage further and say that
    unfortunately, I believe that it is another one of Satan’s devices
    to get us to circumvent the important issues. However , I have
    wasted time on these things and have actually seen this testimony.
    Whether or not it is authentic, does not matter, in my opinion.
    Jesus said that we will be blessed if we believe without proof.
    That’s what faith is all about, and that’s as far as I am prepared
    to take it–and I do believe that God WILL NOT bless those who are constantly looking for proof, because that demonstrates that their
    hearts have not been convicted by th Holy Spirit, because they have not done what we must do and that is getting to know God’s ways by studying his word. You don’t need anything beyond this-and He will bless us for for doing this. It is a solid foundation that everything else can be built upon. If you do not have this foundation then you are in deep trouble. For example Jesus said that WE SHOULD BE NO PART OF THE WORLD. If you REALLY understand what this means, you will KNOW that activities like delving into conspiracy theories, getting involved in politics and constitutional affairs, trying to influence worldly affairs, the controlling forces behind New World Order, whether your President
    has been legitimately installed or not, Israel’s relationship with
    the U.S.A and so on and on; have absolutely nothing to do with our walk with God. All these things belong to Satan’s realm and there is nothing we as Christians can do to influence them one iota. All theses things occur due to God allowing Satan to have this control and according to God’s providence.
    The amount of time that is spent on these things to the detriment
    of increasing our knowledge of “The Word” is simply horrendous.
    What does it matter if the world is controlled by clandestine
    forces, it is just another persona of Satan–take your pick.

    James 4:4

    John 17:13-19 sums it up perfectly

    I can only conclude that people who use their time in this way,
    do not understand that God has promised to deliver His people
    whatever the nature of events that are to unfold in the last days.
    I thank God that I am able to keep it simple, because, Satan, our
    adversary, will do everything in his power to blind us of this
    simple and necessary truth.

    • Hi Richard

      Lots of wisdom in that comment. I am busy on another page trying to explain why I am not that interested in the Illuminati and the NWO.

  58. I’ve been reading everyone’s post on this page and I must say this!

    Gog and Magog means ‘ concealed’, so therefore a mystery concealed in The Mind of God.
    Unto those who earnestly follow The Lord and are His servants the Mystery of The Kingdom of God is given but to those who are outside … all things are done in parables and in a cloud.
    It is The Lords’ Good pleasure to hide His Mind and to hide His Thoughts from man but it is the honor of kings to search.
    Seek Him in your search for only God can reveal and cause you to know.
    By this you are acknowledging that He is King of kings.

  59. p.s. Do you not know that if you are His servant that you are bones of His Bones???

  60. Hi Abigail,

    We do earnestly follow the Lord, that’s why we are able to know !

  61. Hi Stephen,

    Hope you are well….Please let us know how you are getting on !

    Thanks, Richard.

  62. Abigail, please forgive me if this sounds harsh; I find you very difficult to follow. You insert little snippets of information which often have nothing to do with the context of the discussion. This is and can be an excellent website to allow some good solid biblical teaching. There are many out there who are confused about the truth. We who know the truth must be diligent to present it clearly. Let’s work together to do just that.

    In Christ, Ian

    • I agree. To get one’s point across, brevity is crucial. If the text gets too long, people get weary, trying to read everything.

      This is one reason I try to keep my posts limited to a certain length.

      The truth can get lost in the volume of a large text.

  63. I agree, Marianne and Ian,

    Let’s follow Jesus’ example as he is the Master of brevity !!

    thank you.

  65. You can find detailed Muslim documentation on al-Mahdi, Isa (Muslim version of Jesus) and ad-Dajjal (Muslim version of Antichrist), and comparisons against the Bible’s Antichrist, False Prophet and Two Witnesses respectively.

    The parallels are just plain creepy.

  66. If gog and magog are Russia and Iran then this news development is important.

    And especially so as we now are at :

  67. These prophesies look for me as Islamic ones.

    Are your preferences from the Catholic Church or the Holy Quran ?

    • hi john

      Christian prophecy about God and Magog comes from the book of Ezechiel, and the book of Revelation. In the book of Revelation, it does not occur until after the millennial reign of Christ.

      • Hi Marianne,

        Gog and Magog of Ezekiel are not the same as Gog and Magog of revelation. The very term “Gog and Magog” is deliberate corruption of Ezekiel’s words – “Gog, from the land of Magog”; This was rabbinic tradition which John the Revelator adopted, the reason is – hebrew in hebrew – Gog U’Magog (Gog and Magog) in gematria/numerical value is – 70, which are 70 nations descended from Noah, this means ALL gentile nations. Ezekiel speaks of particular endtime war before the coming of Messiah (Gog, from the land of Magog), however, John speaks of 70 nation s other than Israel who will be left after the coming of Christ and will obey God during 1000 years by bringing sacrifices on the Feast of Tabernacles, until they rebel at the end and will be destroyes completely – after this 1000 years only nation of Israel will be left, except for converts who will become part of Israel during this 1000 years.

  68. Gog and Magog is not the last war, the name of the last war is called “El Kayama”, which means “God exists”!

  69. Thanks Baloch nation is the follower of truth and we Baloch are with you because we are having the same enmey not enemy but enrmies mean Iran and pakistan. Iran is killing our people and occupied our land and the between Gog and Magog acctually is the war between Baloch and iran we need you people help to win the war remember pakistan is also partner of evil mean Iran they are also killing us and occupied our land

  70. Baloch and Jews are one Nation. please help your brother

    • Abadmaan

      It is interesting that you bring up the issue of the Baloch. According to some interpretations of bible prophecy, there will be this battle of gog and magog. In some views, which seems to be your view also, magog is baluchistan, who would fight with gog (Iran) and defeat Iran. The Shiite Iran keeps the region from becoming united.

      I wish I could help the Baloch, but how do I help? I am not a political power, but a person. I do not wish to see any human being hurt by others. There is so much turmoil in Pakistan that I do not understand it, even when I try to read about it. They kill each other there.

      What is the reason they persecute you? Is it racial, or political? Your group could become a significant player in end time events.

  71. we are fighting for freedom since 1947 with pakistan and since 1928 with iran because they occupied our free united Land Balochistan(Magog). Before that there were many battle with parsian in ancient time. there is a historical conflict between Baloch and irani parsians. in history their king Noshraw( 570 B.C) were defeated many times in the hand of Baloch and at last they broke the rule of war and killed women and children. here in Balochistan most of Baloch consider themselves one of twelve tirbe of Israel.

    • hi Abadmaan

      You consider yourself one of tribes of Israel, but you are not Jewish in religion, are you?

      Are you not Muslim now, like everyone in Pakistan?

      Which Israel tribe are you? How do you know this?

      • Do not concider us palistani we are different from them. by force we are made pakistani. It is not me saying that Baloch is a lost tirbe of Israel by blood , it is the Isreali scolars reports that when they were coming back to eygept at that time they were twelve tribe ten tribe lost when they reached present Isreal.

  72. We are not a gourp, we are a Nation. there is no other problem just freedom pakistan and iran occupied our land by force.

  73. We have no friends from our neighbors. Persians are our enemy, Pakistan is our enemy number one and Arabs are supporting our enemy Pakistan it means that they are also our enemy Afghanis are only seeing their on interest. We are captured by our enemies. we need help the one who helps us we will be friend of him for ever. We think Israel can help us because the enemies of Baloch are the enemies of Israel. Pakistan and Iran both is the enemy of Israel. We are first Human then Baloch then nothing.

  74. just think why they are our enemy because we are different from them

  75. They consider us non-muslim because of our secular mind. when they open fire on us and kill us, do YOU know what they say at THAT time, they say ALLUH-U-AKBER(GOD IS GREAT) IN ISLAM THIS SENTENCE IS USED JUST KILING OF NON MUSLIM, NOW JUST CONSIDER WHO WE ARE AND WHO THEY ARE? IT IS UP TO YOU.

  76. yes this is the only way. but how I myself don’t know.

    • abadmaan

      If you can prove you have Jewish DNA, you can get visa to Israel. Once there, you can apply for citizenship. Israel is encouraging Jews to migrate there and live. It does not matter if you are secular, or religious, as long as you do not oppose Judaism.

  77. if there is a way I an ready to do.

  78. We want our free Balochistan, in this we need your moral help and any other type of help will be welcomed. we said that you are an individual you can’t do anything for us. as far I think you can do a lot for us, you can write in jewish newspapers or we can rasie vioce for us in any jewish forum.we are waiting for brothers help.and at last you can pray to HaShem The Almighty for free Balochistan.

    • sorry for miss writing

      We want our free Balochistan, in this we need your moral help and any other type of help will be welcomed. you said that you are an individual you can’t do anything for us. as far I think you can do a lot for us, you can write in jewish newspapers or you can rasie vioce for us in any jewish forum.we are waiting for brothers help.and at last you can pray to HaShem The Almighty for free Balochistan.

      • abadmaan

        I would be happy to pray for you.

        Somehow, your people need to connect spiritually, and politically with the Israeli people to get help from them. They are also in danger.

        You need to either find a way to stay there in safety, or leave and go where it is safe.

  79. Thank you for good wishes

  80. you are the Gog and Magog

  81. hi, i am interested in what you have said about gog and magog, and also about the Dajjal. first, i want to make a correction what you have said about Dajjal before. Dajjal is not a community of religion, like you said Dajjal is christian. No, Dajjal is one person, who have no religion because he born with super natural power and abilities. He can heal the chronic patient, he can call down the rain, and much more. he will bring us the lie or fitnah, and he declaire him self as God. The lie he will bring to is sounds like this, “the God should be form of human, so that human can recognize him and bow to him”. from the hadith about the dajjal, prophet of Muhammad have mention in his hadith “Dajjal is a man, he is from Khurasan, he is normal people but he have the abilities,”.

    yes, Gog and Magog is a brutal army in the end of the world. in islam, it called as a Ya’juj and Ma’juj communities. in Quran also said about this but did not mention the place it was. Ya’juj and Ma’juj have been locked inside the wall of Dzulkarnain. in Quran said, ” when Dzulkarnain arrvived at some places between the two mountain, where he can see the sunrise, at same time he saw the black sea, at there he meet two communities which he can’t understand a single word from them. and then comes to him the king and told him that those communities is Ya’juj and Ma’juj, they always bring us the crutial damage, and we ask you for helping us. After that, Dzulkarnain ask them to meld the ion and copper and mix it together. with that Dzulkarnain make a big wall with that titanium ion, and these Ya’juj and Ma’juj only can break the wall when the times is come.”

    Dzulkarnain maybe not his real name, Dzul is mean a king and karnain is mean ‘two horns’, these mean Dzulkarnain is a king who have two horns.

  82. In the Bibles Ez: 38-39, I’m convinced that the future war is a surprize attack against America. Not Israel in the Middle East.

    In 1948 the Jews should have named their new nation Judah. They are from the House of Judah.

    Clear and convincing evidence proves to me, that America is from the House of Israel. I don’t have time to further explain right now. After years of research on this very interesting topic, I’m utterly convinced of my findings.

    Ez.38-39 describes America to a tee. This war being tiny always on very high alert Israel in the Middle East, makes no since what so ever. However, Ez.38-39 describes Americas current condition and frame of dull mind perfectly.

    Turkey, Iran, and their cohorts do not want to nuke U.S., they want to occupy, and plunder our very, very, very, rich Christian nation.

    Turkey is becoming more radical by the moment. Turkey who once was a major super power, who brought Rome to her knees, who almost blew out the Christian light forever, has a big hand in end time prophecy. Turkey also wants to renew their caliph. Which I think will be the future anti-Christ. Iran and Turkey are becoming fast friends. I have no doubt that during this surprise attack they will also force the mark of the beast on Americans. Which is simply the muslim shahhada: submit to allah (satan)….blah…blah…or be beheaded.

    This is not the last war of Armegeddon in the Middle East. I believe this war occurs during the 7 year tribulation ?? Ez. war can and will happen very soon. Lukewarm American Christians wake up. You will soon be invaded, and tested.

    • dear watcher,

      I agree. I also want to point out that half of the Jews in the world are in America. So, that is another incentive for Israel’s enemies to attack.

      This was the reason for 911, because we supported Israel. They need to take us out as an ally, so that Israel will stand alone in the middle east.

  83. Hi Marianne,

    I thank our King Jesus for your site. I find the topics interesting. Also, the freedom of thought processing is refreshing.

    In the Septiguant version of Amos 7, Gog is mentioned as a young demon ???

    Sorry I’m having problems with my spell check.

    • Hi watcher

      Well, that is the idea. Iron sharpens iron. Through debate, people find they learn new things.

      I think Gog is a serpent with a tail – someone coming back from ancient times. Satan was the king of Tyre…..which is to become more active again…….Gog is just a fancy name for him, i think.

  84. […] saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I [am] against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal… How does Gog and Magog relate to Armageddon? Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits: Who forgiveth all thine […]

  85. The biggest Magog of the World is U.S.A.!!!
    1. Who is a Boss in U.S.A., only Israels AIPAC and NeoCon!
    2. Jehova+Moses+David+Jesus+Hitler+Bush+Obama+Olmert!
    3. Old Testament+Holocaust=Deuteronomy!!!
    4. Old Testament=Third Reich of Adolf Hitler!!!
    5. Old Testament=Iraqwar!!!

    Atheist 100%

  86. When all things are considered, there are way too many similarities between Gog-Magog and Armageddon to ignore. I believe that the “differences” that we thought existed between Gog-Magog and Armageddon are easily resolved once the whole of Scripture is compared hermeneutically (using Isaiah, Daniel, Joel and Zechariah as well instead of just Revelation) and the similarities are astounding. In a nutshell:

    * Both Gog and Antichrist come at a time of peace and security (Dan 11:24, Ezekiel 38:12-13)

    * Both Gog and Antichrist are kings that come from the North (Dan 11:40-42, Joel 2:19-20; Ezekiel 38:14-16; Ezekiel 39:1-3)

    * Both Gog and Antichrist have the same coalition of nations (Dan 11:43, Zech 14:14, Joel 3:11-12; Ezekiel 38:5-6)

    * Both Gog and Antichrist take spoil, loot and plunder (Isa 10:5-7, Dan 11:24; Ezekiel 38:10-13)

    * Both Gog and Antichrist are temporary leaders that are destroyed at the end of the battle (Ezekiel 39:11; Daniel 7:11)

    * In both the Gog/Magog and Armageddon battles, the armies are confused and attack each other (Ezekiel 38:21-22; Zech 14:12-13)

    * Both Gog/Magog and Armageddon end with a great earthquake (Ezekiel 38:19-20; Rev 16:18-20)

    * Both Gog/Magog and Armageddon experience great hailstones (Rev 16:16-21, Ezekiel 38:22)

    * Both Gog/Magog and Armageddon are followed by “The Feast Of God” (Ezekiel 39:17-20; Rev 19:17)

    * At the end of both battles Christ is physically present in Israel (Ezekiel 39:7, Zech 12:9-10)

    * After both battles God’s name will no longer be profaned (Ezekiel 39:22, Ezekiel 39:7-8, Zechariah 12:9-10, Ezekiel 38:23)

    * After both battles God pours out His Spirit upon Israel (Ezekiel 39:29; Zechariah 12:10)

    * After both battles weapons of war are destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9; Isaiah 2:4)

    * After both battles God declares “It is done” (Ezekiel 39:8; Revelation 16:17)

    I want to focus on three of the points above specifically. Ezekiel 39:7 and 39:22 says that God’s name will be known in the midst of Israel and that Israel will know their God from that day forward. The only way that Israel can know God is if they know Jesus as their Messiah. Galatians 5:4 makes it clear that those who simply try to be justified by the Law are estranged from Christ (and therefore God), so if Israel is to truly KNOW the Lord their God “from that day forward” they must recognize Jesus as Messiah. In this context Ezek 39:29 tells us that the Lord pours out His spirit upon the house of Israel, and Zechariah 12:10 helps us to understand when this happens — after the Second Coming of Christ. Ezekiel 39:7 reinforces this by showing us that Christ is now physically present IN Israel.

    Ezek 39:29, “Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.”

    Zechariah 12:10, “And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn.”

    Ezekiel 39:7, “So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not [let them] pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I [am] the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.”

    Moreover, in Ezekiel 39:8, God declares “Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord GOD; this [is] the day whereof I have spoken.” If God had declared that He spoke of any “pre-Armageddon” battle before, where is it mentioned in Scripture? The only day in the eschaton that the Lord and the prophets spoke of previously is the Day of the Lord — Armageddon. Moreover, how can God say “It is done” when, according to the pop-eschatology position, it is not done until about seven years later at Armageddon?

    Without any doubt in my mind, Gog-Magog and Armageddon are separate descriptions of the same battle. The Gog-Magog description that Ezekiel gives is a broader view of the final battle which, I believe, will begin as early as the Abomination of Desolation. Armageddon itself is more of a focused or zoomed-in view of how the Gog-Magog battle ends with the return of Christ.

  87. I also want to make the following point regarding Antichrist and Armageddon specifically: According to Scripture the Antichrist does NOT rule a global government. Here is my reasoning as to why.

    Many Christians today believe that when the Antichrist comes on the scene he will be ruling or will soon rule some form of global government. But, does the whole of Scripture really support that idea? There are a few verses that may appear to give credence to such a notion, but I believe that we can ascertain that this will in fact not be the case.

    Let’s consider the following questions:

    1. If Antichrist’s rule is literally global, why are other nations waging war against him and why is he himself waging wars? (Daniel 11:39-45; 9:26).

    2. How can “all” mean literally “all” if even one nation — for example Jordan — is able to escape his hand (Dan 11:41)?

    3. If Antichrist rules the world, why is he so worried about news coming out of the east and the north (Dan 11:44)?

    Many will point to certain verses and take from that the idea that Antichrist literally rules the entire earth, while ignoring many others which suggest that he will not. For example:

    Rev 13:8, “And ALL that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world” or Rev 16:14, “For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, [which] go forth unto the kings of the EARTH and of the WHOLE WORLD, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.”

    Zechariah 14:2, “For I will gather ALL nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity…”

    Are these verses referring to the whole literal earth, to literally all nations in the world? I say no, it does not. Here is why.

    First, let’s look at the verses below to determine if “all” should always be understood to be universal (portions are capitalized/bolded for emphasis):

    Luke 2:1-3 “And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that ALL THE WORLD should be taxed. (And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.) And ALL went to be taxed, every one into his own city.”

    Mark 1:5, “And there went out unto him ALL the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were ALL baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.”

    Daniel 2:36-38, “This was the dream, and now we will interpret it to the king. You, O king, are the king of kings. The God of heaven has given you dominion and power and might and glory; in your hands he has placed mankind and the beasts of the field and the birds of the air. Wherever they live, he has made you ruler over them ALL. You are that head of gold.”

    Ezra 1:2, “Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The LORD Elohim of heaven hath given me ALL the kingdoms of the EARTH;”

    Romans 10:18 “But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into ALL THE EARTH, and their words unto the ends of the world.”

    We know the answers to the following questions, but in light of the verses above let’s ask the obvious: Did Caesar literally tax the whole world? Did every last man, woman and child in Judea and Jerusalem get baptized in the Jordan River? Did Nebuchadnezzar or Cyrus literally rule over the entire earth, ruling over the native Indians in North and South America? Was the Gospel preached to the whole literal earth during the lives of the disciples? We know that the answer to each of these questions is no, as the verses above are obvious example of a figure of speech known as a “synecdoche”. This figure of speech uses a part for the whole, or the whole for a part. This is especially true when we read about kings and their kingdoms, and Antichrist will be no different.

    We read the same thing in Col 1:23, “If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to EVERY CREATURE WHICH IS UNDER HEAVEN; whereof I Paul am made a minister.” We know that Paul did not preach to crickets, frogs and polar bears. It may sound silly to say that, but that would be the logical conclusion we would have to draw if one were not to employ common sense and only read this verse in a wooden, literal sense.

    Many of us may often recognize figures of speech in Scripture such as Col 1:23 above, but then deny that any references to Antichrist could ever be another example of synecdoche when numerous other verses in Scripture in the context of Antichrist demonstrate it forcefully, notwithstanding the fact that logically Antichrist cannot have global power if he is fighting so many wars until the end.

    Let’s take a closer look at Revelation 13:8 and Zechariah 14:2 again.

    Rev 13:8, “And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.”

    The Greek word for “earth” in Rev 13:8 as well as Rev 16:14 is “ge” and this will often be referring to “a country, land enclosed within fixed boundaries, a tract of land, territory, region”. How can we know if this is the intended meaning? One clue for us is found in the second part of Rev 13:8 itself when John writes that those who worship the Beast are those “whose names are not written in the book of life.” Here, John directs us to an understanding that it will not be literally all that dwell upon the earth that will worship the Beast. It is, rather, a certain group only. This should also be quite obvious to us when considering the undeniable fact that a great multitude “which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues” will come out of the Great Tribulation (Rev 7:9,14). If they come out of the Great Tribulation, they had to be in it, and while they were in it they did not worship Antichrist. If John wanted to convey the meaning that he was referring to the whole literal planet a better word that he could have chosen would have been the Greek “kosmos”, but he was not inspired by the Spirit to do so.

    Is there anything else that would point us in the same direction? Let’s examine the full counsel of Scripture, beginning with Zechariah 14:2.

    Zechariah 14:2, “For I will gather ALL nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity…”

    Who are all the nations? The Hebrew says “goy cabiyb”, and this can very easily mean the surrounding Gentiles or the Gentiles round about. Are there any verses in the context of Antichrist and his coalition that specifically state the nations with the Antichrist are only the nations surrounding Israel? Yes.

    Zechariah 14:14 “Judah also will fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the SURROUNDING nations will be gathered, gold and silver and garments in great abundance.”

    Zechariah 12:2 “I am going to make Jerusalem a cup that sends all the SURROUNDING peoples reeling. Judah will be besieged as well as Jerusalem.”

    Joel 3:11-12 “Hasten and come, all you SURROUNDING nations, And gather yourselves there. Bring down, O LORD, Your mighty ones. Let the nations be aroused And come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat,For there I will sit to judge All the SURROUNDING nations.”

    Ezekiel 28:24-26 “‘No longer will the people of Israel have malicious NEIGHBORS who are painful briers and sharp thorns. Then they will know that I am the Sovereign LORD. ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says: When I gather the people of Israel from the nations where they have been scattered, I will show myself holy among them in the sight of the nations. Then they will live in their own land, which I gave to my servant Jacob. They will live there in safety and will build houses and plant vineyards; they will live in safety when I inflict punishment on all their NEIGHBORS WHO MALIGNED AGAINST THEM. Then they will know that I am the LORD their God.'”

    Although the Antichrist will want to rule the earth and force his religion, his ideology, his image of how this world should think and act upon everyone on the planet, he will not be able to do so. When Christ returns the Bible lists the nations that He fights against BY NAME. Every nation that is named is today an ISLAMIC nation. I don’t believe that Zechariah would claim literally all nations on the planet in 14:2, and then turn around and say just the surrounding nations in verse 14:14. Logistically, it would be an impossibility for literally every nation on earth to amass troops, tanks, aircraft, personnel carriers, etc. etc. etc. in one Israeli valley. In the context of Zechariah 12 it is quite apparent to me that Zechariah is referring only to the surrounding nations, as he had already wrote about previously in 12:2 and then again later in 14:14. The prophets Joel and Ezekiel confirm this as well. In light of the whole counsel of Scripture the Antichrist’s rule and political influence will be relegated to the whole MUSLIM world, but not the world as a whole.

    • Hi Mitchell

      That was a good comparison. Gog is not mentioned in Revelation until after the millenium. Do you think there will be 2 gog wars?

  88. Hi Marianne. The term “Gog” simply refers to the leader of “Magog”, which are the nations that are with “Gog”. So, yes, in my view these are separate wars that are simply using the same terms to describe the leader and the nations that side with that leader. If they were the same battles then according to many verses in Ezekiel one would need to conclude that Israel (and much of the world for that matter) would not know God during the Millennium.

    Ezekiel 39:7, “So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not [let them] pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I [am] the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.”

    Ezekiel 39:29, “Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.”

    The Gog-Magog war of Ezekiel can only take place prior to the Millennial Kingdom.

    • Amen Mitchell! Excellent point, and I do agree with you; there is no possible way that Gog of Ez 38 & Gog of Revelation are the same.

  89. Well! Nice story Brother! .. you don’t have any prove .. but make conclusions without any logical reason…


    May God Al might show us the straight path .. Ameen

  90. The Qur’an borrows bits and pieces from the Bible, but then flips the narratives to make Muslims into the “good guys” and the Jews and Christians into the “bad guys”. As a result, Islam is setting up Muslims into fighting against God when He returns to this earth (effectively calling Jesus Christ the “Dajjal” or “False Messiah”).

  91. I like debates and I also like to hear a variety of opinions. I haven’t read every entry that everyone makes on this blog, but it seems like most of them are from gentiles, Christians or Muslims. I haven’t read any feedback from Messianic Jews or Jews. Maybe I’m just missing it. I’m posting another video and this one is from the Orthodox Jewish perspective.

  92. I didn’t know the subtitles would be in Italian. I’ve listened to this video with English subtitles before. Video google has the English subtitles. I tried and tried to get in on You Tube and was unsuccessful. It was only in Hebrew without subtitles. So go to video google.


  94. I wonder how much time we have before Ezechiel 38 happen or we try to make it happen?

    • The stated goal of Iran is to wipe Israel off the map, and to destroy America along with it. This is the reason for monitoring Iran’s development of nuclear weapons. No one would care if all they wanted to do is have an energy source.

      I think Ezekiel 38 is around the corner…maybe in the next year.

      I will also note that Jesus said there would be rumors of war as well as war. So to hear rumors of war does not guarantee a war.

  95. Marianne;
    I’m glad you’re responding. I was watching the Iluminati Project video again.They mention the world Golem in it. That’s a new term to me . I looked it up.

    It seems to be a Jewish term. Can you elaborate on it?

    • hi Kitti

      It is a fairy tale. Just a man made out of mud you can bring to life by saying God’s name over it. You have to get your own mud too.

      I saw this in a movie once. The mud man came alive and protected some people from the Nazis in a small town. He was kind of a “mud angel.”

  96. Marianne,

    Hi hope you are well. If you read Revelation carefully you will see that the Gog Magog ware of Ezekiel occurs after the first ressurrection and after the 1000 years war. What is coming most likely are the events of Revelation 9:13 to the end of the chapter.



  97. To Marianne,

    I know you are trying to polish your believe even though it is full of myth…the question Kitti asked was very clear…the Jew do use the word Golem to describe every none Jew…this is nothing new…Kitti you are a Golem according to the Jewish believe..and Marriane enough posting myths and favorable and propaganda to serve your hidden agenda…and start posting facts…and Marriane ..Yes..I’m a Jew myself…

    • hi Mizrahi

      Your views are welcome here, as much as any others. WE do not have to agree on everything…..I am always open to ideas and changes, if people have facts and thoughts to consider.


  99. I hope Don, James and Silvan sees Dave Hunt’s name there on thet link Mitchell gave. He gets around. I like Dave Hunt.

  100. I couldn’t find a good you tube on Dave Hunt, but I ran across a completely difffernt take on the subject: The Kabbalist one. This sure is different. Anyone ran across this version?


  102. I hope Mizrahi comes back because we could use the Jewish perspective on this blog. That’s missing, except from Marianne. I try to fill in, (Ha) by posting Jewish videos or articles, but it’s not the same.

  103. If Gog, and Magog are destroyed at Armagiddon, how do we explain the 200,000,000 army of the east which comes after Gog-Magog?

  104. The 200,000,000 man army of the east does not come after Gog-Magog. This army is mentioned just before the Day of the Lord (Armageddon).

  105. Chers amis,

    Depuis mon enfance j’ai toujours ressenti au plus profond de mon âme une différence entre moi et mes camarades, j’ai mis du temps pour en comprendre les raisons, ce qui me paraissait acquis et naturel ne l’était pas nécessairement pour mes proches.

    Au fil des années, j’ai compris que Dieu m’avait transmis un don, le don de clairvoyance.

    J’ai hésité avant de décider de publier mes visions dans ce blog. Une des raisons est que je n’avais pas foi en moi étant donné qu’en peut trouver de nombreuses prophéties ou visions à travers le monde.Ces prophéties sont généralement cryptées, obscures ou se sont tout simplement avérées fausses. Je tacherai par conséquent de vous décrire mes visions le plus clairement possible, je m’engage de les ajouter à fur et à mesure.

    Bref, voilà mes visions :

    Guerre au Moyen Orient entre Israël et les nations de Mahomed, cette guerre débutera entre juin et novembre 2010, l’origine de la 3 Guerre Mondiale.
    Alliance économique et militaire entre les rouges (Russie & Chine) et les nations mohamediennes.
    Révolutions et heurts sociaux en Europe, aux Etats-Unis et dans de nombreux pays.
    L’église sera mise à rude épreuve et sa transcendance.
    La troisième guerre mondiale et l’Antéchrist.
    L’effondrement de l’empire américain et de l’occident.
    La victoire de la chrétienté sur les forces de l’islam.
    La paix et l’instauration d’un gouvernement mondial après la grande guerre.
    Le retour du christ et le jour du jugement dernier.
    L’âge d’or et la conquête spatiale.
    Je reste bien évidemment à votre disposition, mes chers amis, pour tout renseignement complémentaire de votre part.

    Sincères salutations.


    Source :

    • Translation: 🙂

      Dear friends

      Since my childhood I always felt deep in my soul a difference between me and my comrades, I took time to understand the reasons, which seemed natural and acquired was not necessarily for my family .

      Over the years, I realized that God had sent a gift, the gift of clairvoyance.

      I hesitated before deciding to publish my views in this blog. One reason is that I had no faith in me since that can find many prophecies and visions around the world.The prophecies are usually encrypted, unclear or have simply proved false. I therefore shall try to describe my views as clearly as possible, I promise to add them as and when.

      Anyway, here’s my vision:

      War in the Middle East between Israel and the nations of Mahomet, this war will start between June and November 2010, the origin of the three World War.
      Economic and military alliance between the red (Russia & China) nations and mohamediennes.
      Revolutions and social clashes in Europe, the United States and in many countries.
      The church will be put to the test and its transcendence.
      The third world war and the Antichrist.
      The collapse of the American Empire and the West.
      The victory of Christianity over the forces of Islam.
      The peace and the establishment of a world government after the Great War.
      The return of Christ and the Day of Judgement.
      The Golden Age and the conquest of space.
      I remain at your disposal of course, my dear friends, for additional information from you.



    • Chers Orvaillant

      Êtes-vous religieux ou profane? Beaucoup de ce que vous avez vu est compatible avec les prédictions de la Bible.

      Je pense aussi une guerre à venir.

      Merci de partager votre vision avec nous. S’il vous plaît se sentent les bienvenus à continuer à contribuer vos idées ici.

      meilleurs vœux

    • You say you are a seer … a gift from God.
      I am curious as to how you receive your insights.
      If you would please tell us how your visions come to you …
      Thank you

  106. Marianne …
    Do you need the above translated?

  107. Nul homme aura connu pareil horreur, la guerre durera 17 ans et débutera en 2010, des villes et des nations entières seront annihilées, On combattra sur terre, mer et air, Genève, Marseille, Rome, Paris, Berlin et de nombreuses villes seront martyrisées ou détruites. Le mal ne reculera devant rien, toutes les armes et ruses seront utilisées pour parvenir à sa fin, ses armées adoreront l’Antéchrist qui leur promettra la victoire sur le Mal. »pénitence, pénitence » les églises ne désempliront pas.

    • Celon vous qui est l ‘antechrist? Si la grande guerre commence en l’annee 2010,
      l’antechrist est deja parmis nous. Il sera a la tete de plusieurs armees? Alors il a deja du pouvoir?

    • Translation:No man has ever seen such a horror , war lasting 17 years beginning in 2010 , cities and entire nations will be annihilated , We will fight on land , sea and air , Geneva , Marseille , Rome , Paris , Berlin and many cities will be sorely or destroyed.Evil will stop at nothing, all weapons and tricks will be used to achieve its end , his armies will worship the Antichrist will promise them the victory over evil. ” Penance , penance ” churches never empty

    • 17 years!!!??? Well there goes my theory of Jesus returning by 2015…UGGH!!!

      17 années !!!??? Eh bien, il va ma théorie de Jésus- retour d’ici à 2015 … UGGH !

      • ha ha….you are amazed. But think for a minute. It is not so strange. Sometimes we get used to war, and accept it as normal. But it is still war.

        911 happened in 2001. By next year, it will already be 10 years that we have been fighting terrorism. So, what is the start date?

        Then 7 years after next year, will be 17 years.

  108. Lorsque la grande guerre touchera à son terme, peu de temps après, un astéroïde menacera les hommes et leur lune, l’astéroïde s’écrasera sur la lune, accompagné d’une pluies de corps et de débris incandescents qui tomberont sur la terre qui provoqueront des incendies et des dévastations dans les campagnes et villes, comme si la guerre n’aurait pas suffit.La rédemption passe par de grandes souffrances.

    • What Scripture do you believe points to something like this happening with the moon?

      • Hi Mitchell.

        There are some bible verses that predict “trouble” for the moon in the last days. How this effect is achieved is not described. Only that the moon turns dark, or turns red.

        Isa 13:10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

        Isa 24:23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.

        Eze 32:7 And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heaven, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.

        Joe 2:10 The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:

        Joe 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

        Joe 3:15 The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.

        Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

        Mar 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

        Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

        Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

        Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

        Rev 8:12 And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

        If something did crash into the moon, darkening it, pieces of the impact could fall to earth. There is one passages about a “star” named wormwood that crashes into the sea and makes it bitter.

        Rev 8:7 ¶ The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

        Rev 8:8 ¶ And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;

        Rev 8:9 And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed.

        Rev 8:10 ¶ And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters;

        Rev 8:11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter.

        Rev 8:12 ¶ And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise.

        • I believe that to be referring to solar and lunar eclipses. The next tetrad will be in 2014-2015.

    • Translation:When the great war will come to an end shortly after an asteroid threaten men and their moon , the asteroid crash into the moon , accompanied by a shower of glowing debris and body that will fall on earth will cause fires and devastation in
      in the countryside and cities , as if the war would not suffit.La redemption through great suffering

      • This sounds like the first trumpet…””The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.” Revelation 8:7

        • It’s good to see you happy … and having fun.
          But Lindsey can you please tell me how Ice and Fire can mingled with Blood?
          I am curious of your understanding and views of this combination.Thanks

          • That is a good question…ice (cold)…fire (heat)….blood…(literal? )….I am “talking this out to myself”

            hmmmm….volcano (heat, lava, smoke….A ha!!!! If Volcanos can produce hail…then it would be the ICeland volcanoe!!!!????? And the lava = blood

            found this…

            Did you notice that ALOT of stuff happened in April?

            • so just to “theorize”…

              November 2008?
              -1st seal broken White Horse(false Christ) Rev 6
              -2nd seal broken Red Horse (war) (could be previous, current or future wars)

              -3rd seal broken Black Horse (Famine) Revelation describes a condition where basic goods are sold at greatly inflated prices. Thus, the black horse rider depicts times of deep scarcity or famine but not of starvation.

              2001 to present?
              4th Seal Pale Horse (death)The rider is Death, and his companion is Hades or the grave—for Hades is the place of the dead. We should here picture death and Hades gathering up the victims of man’s civilization—the casualties of war, starvation and plague.

              2001 to present (a few mths ago, Christians were beheaded in a surprise attack …will have to find the article-it was done twice)
              5th Seal
              “A time is coming when anyone who kills you will think he is offering a service to God” (John 16:2). (September 11, 2001 )

              Revelation is describing, in a graphic and meaningful way, that the faithful have been killed for their convictions.

              6th Seal: Cosmic Signs

              When the sixth seal was opened, John saw awesome cosmic disturbances. There was a great earthquake, the sun turned black, the moon became blood red, stars fell to earth, the sky folded up like a scroll, mountains and islands moved (6:12-14).

              The contents of the first five seals had been described in similar words in the “little apocalypses” of Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21. The cosmic catastrophes described by the sixth seal were also mentioned by Jesus in this same discourse. “Immediately after the distress of those days the sun will be darkened,” said Jesus, “and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken” (Matthew 24:29).

              The similarities between Matthew 24:29 and Revelation 6:12-14 are obvious. Leon Morris says, “The importance of this is that John’s picture of a ruined universe was not some strange new teaching for his readers. It was a ‘restatement of beliefs already held on supreme authority. What the faithful Witness at one time had said on earth, He now repeats from heaven'” (Tyndale New Testament Commentaries, “Revelation,” revised edition, p. 107).

              More than this, what Jesus had said in the synoptic Gospels was closely reminiscent of the Old Testament. The prophet Joel had spoken these words in God’s name: “I will show wonders in the heavens and on the earth, blood and fire and billows of smoke. The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord” (2:30-31). This was typical prophetic language to describe God’s judgment, the end of the world’s kingdoms and the inauguration of the kingdom of God (Haggai 2:6; Isaiah 13:10; 34:4; Jeremiah 4:23-28).

              In the Old Testament earthquakes were also regular features of divine visitation. When God descended on Mount Sinai, “the whole mountain trembled violently” (Exodus 19:18). Isaiah prophesied of a time when the Lord would “shake the earth” (Isaiah 2:19). In Haggai, the Lord says: “In a little while I will once more shake the heavens and the earth, the sea and the dry land” (2:6).

              Perhaps the seals coincide with the trumpets…

              1st trumpet= Iceland Volcano April 15th 2010
              2nd trumpet= Gulf Oil Spill April 20th, 2010

              *Marianne, Susie and another person (total of 3) hear a Shofar (trumpet) May 2010

              **I believe that we are on the “edge” of the 6th seal and 3rd trumpet



              • what of the seven thunders?

                • ummm…..never heard of those….

                  • Rev 10:3 And cried with a loud voice, as [when] a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.
                    Rev 10:4 And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.

                    • Seven thunders are sealed….I am still learning Revelations and its order of things

                    • Abigain, Revelation 10 describes the event that many call “the rapture”. Here is why.

                      Many love to point to 1 Thess 4:16 and 1 Cor 15:51-52 when discussing the rapture (gathering of the elect), but then fail to see it in the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

                      When we read Revelation 10, notice what happens when the “mighty messenger” begins to sound the 7th and LAST TRUMPET:

                      Revelation 10:1,3a,7, “And I saw another mighty angel COME DOWN FROM HEAVEN, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow [was] upon his head, and his face [was] as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire … And cried with a LOUD VOICE, as [when] a lion ROARETH … in the days of the voice of the SEVENTH angel, when he shall begin to SOUND, the MYSTERY of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.”

                      Notice the words I have emphasized above. I believe that this is directly related to 1 Thess 4:16 and 1 Cor 15:51-52, the most popular rapture passages in the entire Bible.

                      1 Thess 4:16, “For the Lord himself shall DESCEND FROM HEAVEN with a SHOUT, WITH THE VOICE OF THE ARCHANGEL, and with the TRUMP of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first” *and* 1 Cor 15:51-52 reads, “Behold, I shew you a MYSTERY; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST TRUMP: for the TRUMPET shall SOUND, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”

                      In Revelation 10 we have:

                      1. A “mighty angel” coming down from heaven, 2. Crying out with a loud voice, 3. The seventh and last trumpet begins to sound, 4. And the “mystery” of God is finished once the last trumpet begins to sound.

                      In 1 Thess 4:16 and 1 Cor 15:51-52 we have:

                      1. The Lord coming down from heaven with the voice of the Archangel, 2. With the trump of God, 3. The Mystery: At the last trump the dead are raised, and 4. At the last trump we will be changed in the twinkling of an eye.

                      This is not just a mere coincidence. In fact, let’s take a closer look at the identity of the “mighty messenger” of Revelation 10.

                      I believe that we can ascertain exegetically and hermeneutically that the “mighty messenger” that John sees coming down from Heaven (often translated as “angel”) in Rev 10:1 is a direct reference to Jesus Christ. (IMPORTANT: We need to keep in mind that “angel” does not always refer to a created being, though it normally does in most cases. The Greek word for “angel” simply means “messenger” and at times can be referring to a Christophany or Theophany, especially in the Old Testament.) John borrows extensively from the Old Testament so this could very well be a Christophany here as well, and I believe that it is. Here is why.

                      In Rev 10:3 we read that “he gave a loud shout like the ROAR OF A LION.” This is a significant clue in my opinion, for we know that Christ is the One who roars at His coming. Jeremiah 25:30 says that, “‘The LORD will ROAR from on high, And utter His voice from His holy habitation; He will ROAR mightily against His fold. He will give a SHOUT, as those who tread the grapes, Against all the inhabitants of the earth.” In Hosea 11:10 we read, “They shall walk after the LORD: he shall ROAR LIKE A LION: when he shall roar, then the children shall tremble from the west.” Joel 3:16 says, “The LORD also shall ROAR out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD [will be] the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.” Amos 1:2 says that “The LORD will ROAR from Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the habitations of the shepherds shall mourn, and the top of Carmel shall wither.” 1 Thess 4:16 says that “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven WITH A SHOUT, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first”.

                      And the clues don’t just stop there.

                      Note that this “mighty messenger” in Rev 10:1 comes down from heaven “clothed with a cloud”. During the Second Coming Jesus Christ is “coming on the clouds” or “coming in a cloud” (Matt. 24:30, 26:64, Mark 13:26, 14:62, Luke 12:27, Rev. 1:7, Dan 7:13). Indeed, even when Jesus ascended to Heaven “he was taken up; and a cloud received him” (Acts 1:9).

                      Even the “rainbow upon his head” is another clue in my opinion. The only other reference to a rainbow in Revelation is in 4:3 when John describes the throne of God. Significantly, the only other time a rainbow appears in Scripture is in the first book of the Bible in Genesis 9:13-14 (imagine that, the first and the last). In the Genesis account, the rainbow is seen in the aftermath of the global flood sent forth by God in order to remove sinful and evil-minded man from the earth. As the rainbow symbolizes God’s promise to never again destroy the earth through a flood, we are reminded by Peter that the next time judgment comes it will not come by a flood, but by fire. In 2 Peter 3:3-7, we read:

                      “First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, ‘Where is this coming he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.’ But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.”

                      “Where is this coming he promised?” There is their answer.

                      Moreover, we read that “his face was like the sun”, which should remind us immediately of Rev 1:16-17 where the One who calls Himself “the first and the last” is described by John as having a face “like the sun shining in all its brilliance”. It should be quite obvious to us that this is none other than Jesus Christ.

                      So you see, in Revelation 10 where we find the last trump and the mystery of God being finished we have a perfect harmony with the two most popular “rapture” passages in the Bible.

            • This is the second time I’ve tried to answer you …
              The first time … just as I was to submit my answer …
              and a long one at that …. the power went out and erased it all.
              Yesterday … just as I was to verify a weather alert bulletin for my region … the power went out and the sun was shinning.
              Passover meal … well first of all it was more like a dinner theatre experience.
              They tried to show a film which an hour prior was working just fine … but when they tried showing it, it was all scrambled.
              The micro phone stopped working … thunder and lightning and a storm build up …
              From my first step in there I wanted to leave …
              my sister became angry with me for wanting to go since we had paid for the meal … so I stayed because she was in tears …. but I should have left right away!
              The next thing I knew they applied some liquid the color of blood on two door posts of the exit.
              It dripped unto the floor … that exit also led to the food and the washrooms.
              It was a nightmare!
              But back to the power going out at specific times …
              for me has become a sign.
              i will answer you later. 🙂

              • We been having “weird” weather here in Ga…there was golf size hail and trees down just a few days ago in a county north of us…and then yesterday, we had a “yellow/green” look to the sky with thunder and lightning, thinking it was going to storm hard and then nothing. Sunshining today..

    • Êtes-vous capable d’écrire en anglais ? Juste plus facile à comprendre sans avoir à traduire dans les deux sens pour les autres à lire

  109. Here is one of those weather alert bulletin which I’ve spoken of earlier …
    but this one is for today …

  110. Abigail, it’s difficult to read my previous post since it gets squished, so I’ll post it here again.

    Revelation 10 describes the event that many call “the rapture”. Here is why.

    Many love to point to 1 Thess 4:16 and 1 Cor 15:51-52 when discussing the rapture (gathering of the elect), but then fail to see it in the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

    When we read Revelation 10, notice what happens when the “mighty messenger” begins to sound the 7th and LAST TRUMPET:

    Revelation 10:1,3a,7, “And I saw another mighty angel COME DOWN FROM HEAVEN, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow [was] upon his head, and his face [was] as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire … And cried with a LOUD VOICE, as [when] a lion ROARETH … in the days of the voice of the SEVENTH angel, when he shall begin to SOUND, the MYSTERY of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.”

    Notice the words I have emphasized above. I believe that this is directly related to 1 Thess 4:16 and 1 Cor 15:51-52, the most popular rapture passages in the entire Bible.

    1 Thess 4:16, “For the Lord himself shall DESCEND FROM HEAVEN with a SHOUT, WITH THE VOICE OF THE ARCHANGEL, and with the TRUMP of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first” *and* 1 Cor 15:51-52 reads, “Behold, I shew you a MYSTERY; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST TRUMP: for the TRUMPET shall SOUND, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”

    In Revelation 10 we have:

    1. A “mighty angel” coming down from heaven, 2. Crying out with a loud voice, 3. The seventh and last trumpet begins to sound, 4. And the “mystery” of God is finished once the last trumpet begins to sound.

    In 1 Thess 4:16 and 1 Cor 15:51-52 we have:

    1. The Lord coming down from heaven with the voice of the Archangel, 2. With the trump of God, 3. The Mystery: At the last trump the dead are raised, and 4. At the last trump we will be changed in the twinkling of an eye.

    This is not just a mere coincidence. In fact, let’s take a closer look at the identity of the “mighty messenger” of Revelation 10.

    I believe that we can ascertain exegetically and hermeneutically that the “mighty messenger” that John sees coming down from Heaven (often translated as “angel”) in Rev 10:1 is a direct reference to Jesus Christ. (IMPORTANT: We need to keep in mind that “angel” does not always refer to a created being, though it normally does in most cases. The Greek word for “angel” simply means “messenger” and at times can be referring to a Christophany or Theophany, especially in the Old Testament.) John borrows extensively from the Old Testament so this could very well be a Christophany here as well, and I believe that it is. Here is why.

    In Rev 10:3 we read that “he gave a loud shout like the ROAR OF A LION.” This is a significant clue in my opinion, for we know that Christ is the One who roars at His coming. Jeremiah 25:30 says that, “‘The LORD will ROAR from on high, And utter His voice from His holy habitation; He will ROAR mightily against His fold. He will give a SHOUT, as those who tread the grapes, Against all the inhabitants of the earth.” In Hosea 11:10 we read, “They shall walk after the LORD: he shall ROAR LIKE A LION: when he shall roar, then the children shall tremble from the west.” Joel 3:16 says, “The LORD also shall ROAR out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD [will be] the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.” Amos 1:2 says that “The LORD will ROAR from Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the habitations of the shepherds shall mourn, and the top of Carmel shall wither.” 1 Thess 4:16 says that “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven WITH A SHOUT, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first”.

    And the clues don’t just stop there.

    Note that this “mighty messenger” in Rev 10:1 comes down from heaven “clothed with a cloud”. During the Second Coming Jesus Christ is “coming on the clouds” or “coming in a cloud” (Matt. 24:30, 26:64, Mark 13:26, 14:62, Luke 12:27, Rev. 1:7, Dan 7:13). Indeed, even when Jesus ascended to Heaven “he was taken up; and a cloud received him” (Acts 1:9).

    Even the “rainbow upon his head” is another clue in my opinion. The only other reference to a rainbow in Revelation is in 4:3 when John describes the throne of God. Significantly, the only other time a rainbow appears in Scripture is in the first book of the Bible in Genesis 9:13-14 (imagine that, the first and the last). In the Genesis account, the rainbow is seen in the aftermath of the global flood sent forth by God in order to remove sinful and evil-minded man from the earth. As the rainbow symbolizes God’s promise to never again destroy the earth through a flood, we are reminded by Peter that the next time judgment comes it will not come by a flood, but by fire. In 2 Peter 3:3-7, we read:

    “First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. They will say, ‘Where is this coming he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.’ But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.”

    “Where is this coming he promised?” There is their answer.

    Moreover, we read that “his face was like the sun”, which should remind us immediately of Rev 1:16-17 where the One who calls Himself “the first and the last” is described by John as having a face “like the sun shining in all its brilliance”. It should be quite obvious to us that this is none other than Jesus Christ.

    So you see, in Revelation 10 where we find the last trump and the mystery of God being finished we have a perfect harmony with the two most popular “rapture” passages in the Bible.

  111. Hi Mitchell,
    An amazing account you have just given.
    And I agree with you perfectly that this is the Angel of The Lord, The Christ, The Lion who Roars and who swears by The Throne of God that time is no more!!
    I just think that this occurs prior to all the trumpets.
    The Angel knows the end because he says …
    ‘But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound …’

    Therefore the seven thunders occur when The Angel of The Lord lifts up His Hands to Heaven and swears … TIME IS NO MORE!
    In other words His patience is finished.

    The seven utterances of thunder are there … and they too have something to say …
    but Christ prohibits John from writing down what it is they say …

    What do you think these are?

    • In other words … my own …
      Jesus Christ the crowned Son of The Most High begins to reveal the judgements of God from that point on!
      This is The grand entrance to the Apocalypse.
      The Christ from this time on will reveal the Glory of The Most High.
      He determines this from the beginning and He knows The end.
      The end being ‘The Mystery of God is finished!’

      I think from the time when He declares that time is no longer …
      we better stay close to Him … because He is about to show The Power of The Almighty!

  112. abigail says, “I just think that this occurs prior to all the trumpets.”

    According to Revelation 10 it happens at the seventh and last trump when the angel begins to sound. In my opinion, everything I read in Scripture places the rapture after the tribulation only. (I use to believe in a pre-trib rapture until I realized there is no support in Scripture for it.) This is when those who are “alive and remain” are called up to meet Him in the air:

    1 Thess 4:17, “Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”

    When this verse is understood the way that it was intended it does not allow in any way, shape or form for there to be a pre-trib gathering of the elect. Here is why.

    The word used for “meet” in 1 Thess 4:16-17 is the Greek word “apantesis”, and this word only occurs here and in three other places. In “Vocabulary of the Greek Testament” by G. Milligan and James Hope Moulton, “The word apantesis seems to have been a kind of official welcome of a newly arriving dignitary – a usage which accords excellently with its NT usage.” And indeed it does. In Matthew 25:1,6 it describes the virgins going out to meet the bridegroom, to escort him back into the house. In Acts 28:14-16 it is used to describe brethren from Rome coming out to Appii Foru, to meet Paul and his company, and then escort them back to Rome. In each example of “apantesis”, the escort back is IMMEDIATE. We don’t have them going out to meet the subject, then going to where the subject came from for days, weeks or years, and then escorting the subject back. That was not the custom. The subject who was coming is met by those who are already at his destination. And what is His destination? Where we are — EARTH.

    Aside from 1 Thess 4:17 these are the only occurrences of the word. In the post-trib view, the elect are gathered in the air to meet Jesus and then we accompany Him back to Earth immediately, according to the “apantesis” of 1 Thess 4:17, which is consistent with its usage in each of the other three verses of Scripture. The pre-trib position, however, suddenly changes the intended meaning of the word. Instead of us escorting Jesus back to Earth immediately for His Second Coming, the pre-trib position has us conveniently going to Heaven instead, which the text does not say anywhere, at any place, at any time.

    Keep in mind, the Book of Revelation is not strictly chronological or linear. John gives a general overview of tribulation from beginning to end and immediately after (called seals), then goes on to describe the judgments that take place during and immediately after the tribulation (called trumpets/bowls of wrath). The seventh seal, seventh trumpet and seventh bowl all end right around the same time. (The is common in Semitic literature and is one reason why critics often claim that there are two different creation accounts in Genesis when in fact there is only one.) From time to time John jumps back and forth or mentions parenthetically descriptions of specific events that are not linear. When we understand this we can then understand the Book of Revelation in a whole new light.

    • Mitchell, I was thinking the same as I wrote in my post above: “Perhaps the seals coincide with the trumpets…”

      I had noticed that ALOT of “stuff” happened in the month of April 2010…when reviewing the seals and the trumpets and trying to put them in “order”, it occured to me that they could actually parallel one another/coincide. A seal could be broken on one day and then an hour later a trumpet call! Ya never know…What are your thoughts on the first seal being broken and when? Just curious..

      • I want to share with you a little experience.
        I walked into my shed a few days ago as we were subjected to a snow storm …
        And on the floor of my shed was an insect I’d never seen before in my life.
        And believe me I’ve extensively travelled and seen many things.

        This thing was huge! The size of a small egg ,,, it was black and thick and ugly with some yellow stripes on its back. Its wings were short but powerful.
        I looked at it for a while and wondered how it could have gotten in, since my modern shed is a sealed structure.
        I was frightened by it … although it seemed to be asleep.
        At that moment I heard The voice of The Lord say : ‘Take it I have given it to you.’

        Strange … I thought I don’t want it Lord.

        So I closed the door and hoped it would exit from the same entrance it entered.

        Three days went by … the snow ended … so I went back to my shed …
        secretly hoping that this thing was now gone.
        But looked and behold and it was still there … at the exact same spot as before.
        ‘It must be dead’ I thought. ‘The frost must have killed it .’

        I approached the space carefully …. I don’t like bugs especially those with wings.
        It didn’t move … surely it died.

        Why would the Lord say such a thing?
        However … I was still afraid of it and again I closed the door behind me.

        Then the Lord said to me … ‘She is sleeping.
        She is thinking of making her nest here.
        Take her ! I have given her to you.’

        ‘Lord’ I thought BUT … I don’t want ‘ her ‘!!

        And again I walked away. It got hot outside …
        and I prayed that this thing would just vanish, die , and decompose.

        Now in the meantime … I had been having a lot of problems with a neighbour.
        A long story … short … She had threatened me with words like …
        ‘I’ll bash your face in’ etc. Every second word was an ‘F’ word.
        And all this for no reason.
        I had never done her wrong …

        I had not complain to anyone about it except to God.

        Again I walked into my shed… and again the Lord said:
        ‘Take her for I have given her to you.’

        This time whether this thing was dormant or not …(it was still there )
        I lifted my foot and stepped on her and I killed it!

        The bug died there under my heel …
        The neighbour was brought to court …
        And now I understand this a whole lot better!

        I will not be frightened anymore. ….

    • Mitchell,
      You are the one speaking of the rapture.
      i was not!
      I was focussed on The Christ and revelation 10 only.

      The scene here in chapter 10 is of Christ and about Him declaring the trumpets.
      He declares the goal of His mission and that is to finish The Mystery of God!

      I wish this box was bigger!
      Here I am at the bottom of a overloaded page trying to make sense out of it all for YOU.

      The Christ Holy and The Crowned Son Of God swares by all that has ever been created that TIME is NO MORE!
      He will Bring The Glory to GOD!

      You are mixing events. The sole purpose of Christ is to fulfill the Will of God.
      And He does … He is the first and the Last. He declares the end from the beginning!
      How dare you mock me!

      I am done with this subject!
      You are all the same … only thinking of your doctrinal taught stick in the mud assumptions.
      I had thought to have met an intelligent person … but I was wrong … again.

      You all have a problem with reading!
      You all remind me of a herd of carriboo heading for a cliff … why ???
      because some blind leader was startled and began to run and you all followed
      unquestionably for the cliff.
      And over it!
      That is truly the only jumping you all do.

      • abigail, I’m not sure why you are offended or think I am mocking you, which I am not. The statement “I just think that this occurs prior to all the trumpets” is something that many pre-trib rapture proponents often say regarding the Second Coming of Jesus Christ (prior to the trumpets and therefore prior to the tribulation), so I thought that was your position.

        You mentioned that “The scene here in chapter 10 is of Christ and about Him declaring the trumpets.” However, the trumpets have all been completed when Christ comes down from Heaven in Revelation 10 — the seventh angel sounds the seventh trumpet, and the mystery of God is completed instantaneously once the 7th trump begins to sound.

      • I agree. No one is mocking anyone. This is a discussion about the rapture and Rev 10.

    • Mitchell, Your right on target with the 7th trumpet being the rapture or as the Bible refers to the event, the translation. I cannot agree though that the Angel is Christ, though many do. In my opinion Jesus is NEVER referred to as an angel. I think we see the Lord Jesus coming in the clouds for His saints @ 7th trumpet, land this event is described further in Re 14:14-16, and as you so aptly pointed out above referring, I Th 4:16 & I Co 15:52ff. I see the “voice of the arch angel” as the angel crying to the Son of Man on the cloud with the sharp cycle in Re 14:14. You are so much closer than most. Amen!

  113. Hi lyndsey, I lean more towards this view:

    The tribulation covers a broad period of time beginning in the first century through to today. There is nothing in the Scriptures that speak of a “seven-year tribulation”, but only of tribulation in general and a period of 3.5 prophetic years called the “Great Tribulation” which begins with the Abomination of Desolation.

    Some believe that there will be a new Jewish temple built on the Temple Mount, one in which the Antichrist will eventually stand in and literally claim “I am God.” While an effort does exist by some orthodox Jewish groups to rebuild the third temple, this may not have been what the Holy Spirit was referring to in 2 Thessalonians 2 and Matthew 24.

    The Temple of God in the New Testament

    To understand why, we first need to keep in mind that the Apostle Paul and Jesus both pointed to an end-of-days event that would take place just before the Day of the Lord (Christ’s post-trib Second Coming). Paul referred to it as the man of lawlessness/man of sin who sets himself up in “the temple of God” (2 Thess 2:4), while Jesus described it as the Abomination of Desolation standing in “the holy place” (Matt 24:15). Second, according to the verses below, we are continually reminded that the true temple of God is no longer a PHYSICAL temple (after the final sacrifice of Christ the veil was torn and animal sacrifices were no longer of any value), but is instead now a SPIRITUAL temple:

    1 Cor 3:17, “If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, WHICH TEMPLE YOU ARE.”

    1 Peter 2:5, “And now God is building you, as living stones, into his SPIRITUAL temple. What’s more, you are God’s holy priests, who offer the spiritual sacrifices that please him because of Jesus Christ.” (NLT)

    Eph 2:19-22, “Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner[stone], in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into A HOLY TEMPLE in the Lord, in whom you also are being BUILT TOGETHER for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.”

    If Jesus in Matthew 24 and the Apostle Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2 are referring to the holy place that is the new spiritual temple of God — that is to say, the church — then all we need to watch for is for someone of significant importance to stand up against Christendom and proclaim himself to be something that only the true God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob can lay claim to. And what could that be?

    Apart From Me There Is No …

    Islam teaches that the coming Mahdi will be the SAVIOR. Not just for Muslims, but for all of humanity (I’ll post links at the end of this post). If the Mahdi proclaimed himself to be, and is proclaimed to be, the “true savior” of mankind that the world must follow, this would fly directly in the face of God who says in Isaiah 43:11 that “I, even I, am the Lord, and APART FROM ME THERE IS NO SAVIOR.” According to Scripture, anyone who would proclaim himself to be the savior of the world would be claiming to be God. (Moreover, in a spiritual sense, if the Mahdi proclaims himself to be the savior of humanity and then demands that Christianity be abolished, demands that all Christians must convert to Islam and no longer worship Jesus Christ, would he not also be causing the “sacrifice and oblations (offerings) to cease” according to the following verses?

    Romans 12:1, “I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies A LIVING SACRIFICE, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service.”

    Heb 13:15, “By him therefore let us offer the SACRIFICE OF PRAISE to God continually, that is, the fruit of [our] lips giving thanks to his name.”

    1 Peter 2:5, “And now God is building you, as living stones, into his spiritual temple. What’s more, you are God’s holy priests, who offer the SPIRITUAL SACRIFICES that please him because of Jesus Christ.”

    With that thought in mind, we begin to see the text in a whole new light:

    2 Thess 2:3-4,8, “Don’t be fooled by what they say. For that day [the day of the Lord] will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessness is revealed — the one who brings destruction. He will exalt himself and defy every god there is and tear down every object of adoration and worship. He will position himself in the temple of God, claiming that he himself is God … And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and DESTROY by the splendor of his coming.”

    1 Cor 3:17, “If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will DESTROY him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.”

    The Temple of Revelation 11

    Many often refer to the temple of Revelation 11 as a physical temple as well, which says, “Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, ‘Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there'” (Rev 11:1).

    One thing I’ve always wondered is why was John given a “rod” and told to “measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein”? I’m sure that an entire word study could be done on just the word “rod” (cf Psa. 23:4, Thy rod and Thy staff shall comfort me), or “measure” (cf Hab 3:6, He stood and measured the earth …), but let’s take another look here at temple and the temple imagery instead:

    * The very first time we find the word “temple” in Revelation is in 3:12a regarding the Church in Philadelphia when Christ says, “He who overcomes, I will MAKE HIM A PILLAR IN THE TEMPLE of My God, and he shall go out no more.” For one to be made a pillar in the temple it must mean that the temple in view here is not one made of stone, but rather one that is made of PEOPLE.

    * Lampstands/candlesticks were important items that were found in the temple in the Old Testament, yet John shows us that this time the lampstands/candlesticks in the temple are represented by the two witnesses (11:4), which again would indicate that the temple in view is not of stone, but of PEOPLE.

    * In the Old Testament, a priest was one who served within the physical temple of God. In Rev 1:6 and 5:10 we are told that anyone who has been washed by the blood of Christ is a priest, and the Christian understanding of this according to 1 Peter 2:5 is that as priests we now “offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.” We no longer offer animal sacrifices in a temple made of stone.

    This of course again reminds me of Ephesians 2:19-22, which says, “Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner[stone], in whom the whole building, being fitted together, GROWS INTO A HOLY TEMPLE in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.”

    With this in mind, it could therefore stand to reason that when John speaks of the temple being trampled on in chapter 11 that he is referring to God’s people, and not a physical third temple per se built in Jerusalem.

    The Nation of Israel

    One obvious question, however, would be how does this affect the Jews living in the nation of Israel if it is referring to the spiritual temple of God? There are a couple of possibilities that we could deduce from this thought, especially if we accept the likelihood that the coming Antichrist will be Islam’s proclaimed “savior of humanity” called the Mahdi.

    1. The Mahdi (according to Islamic teaching) will not only claim to be the ‘savior of humanity’, but will also be the driving force behind uniting a coalition of Islamic nations that come up against the nation of Israel. He will also desire to subjugate the world into converting to Islam. In this way, it would definitely have much bearing on the Jews living in Israel even if this is only referring to the spiritual temple of God.

    2. It will have a direct bearing on all Messianic Jews who would (along with Gentile Christians) recognize this “Abomination of Desolation”. I do not believe that the Olivet Discourse or even the Book of Matthew as a whole was for an “orthodox” Jewish audience only as some contend (who would never read the book anyway, I fail to see the point) but rather I believe that it was for Messianic Jews, and by extension all Gentile Christians. (Matt 24:9 says, “… ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.” Orthodox Jews are not hated because of Jesus’ name, but Messianic Jews and Gentile Christians are. (In fact, even many orthodox Jews hate Messianics and Gentile Christians because they adhere to the faith of Jesus).

    3. It is possible that there could be a dual fulfillment. Most translations render Matt 24:15 as “standing IN the holy place” which causes those who read the English translation to envision a fully built temple. However, the word for “in” in the Greek is “en” (G1722) and is also translated as “on”, “by”, “at” or “with” in addition to “among”. Although some orthodox Jewish groups are actively seeking to rebuild the third temple, all that they require to offer sacrifices is an altar and an unblemished red heifer. (The alter began construction in July 29, 2009 and has been completed). This could be on the temple mount, or right beside the western wall (which I could see happening if they suddenly have a perfect red heifer but no rebuilt temple yet.) Perhaps this could be Christ’s reference to “standing in/on/by the holy place” and the reason why He did not mention a temple per se (nor did the prophet Daniel), whereas Paul could have been referencing the new spiritual temple of God comprised of Messianic Jews and Gentile Christians.

    The Mahdi/Antichrist does not have to outright say “I am God” in order to show (“apodeiknymi”, declare) himself as God. Jesus did the same thing without telling the Sanhedrin “I am God”, yet they understood the theological significance of His words and sought to kill Him. The Mahdi could visit the temple mount where the Islamic Dome of the Rock stands and claim to be the “savior of mankind” from there whom the Jews and Christians must follow. Not only would Messianic Jews and Gentile Christians recognize this as an affront to the faith of Christ and the significance of this event, even orthodox Jews would know that this would be a declaration of divinity, a mere man showing himself to be God. They, too, understand Isaiah 43:11 as God declares “I am the Lord, and apart from me there is NO savior.” Indeed, “…I am God, and there is NONE like Me” (Isaiah 46:9).

  114. Mitchell,

    I absolutely agree…we are caught up in heaven with LORD not in order of stay in heaven…because, obviously LORD comes on the clouds of heaven TOWARDS Mount of Olives with 10,000 of His saints (those who are caught up) making the way through wilderness of Sinai, Teman and Paran to save Jews who are chased down by Antichrist to wilderness of Transjordan…to avange and destroy the forces of Antichrist present in Israel…

  115. Rapture beleiving Christians make me laugh…

    What are you suppose be doing in heaven when LORD comes down to US ??? HELL is a place without LORD Jesus Christ, while Heaven is where The LORD is…He has heaven as His footstool, heavens will be rolled up like a scroll!

    3 God cometh from Teman, and the Holy One from mount Paran. Selah His glory covereth the heavens, and the earth is full of His praise.
    4 And a brightness appeareth as the light; rays hath He at His side; and there is the hiding of His power.
    5 Before him goeth the pestilence, and fiery bolts go forth at His feet.
    6 He standeth, and shaketh the earth, He beholdeth, and maketh the nations to tremble; and the everlasting mountains are dashed in pieces, the ancient hills do bow; His goings are as of old.
    10 The mountains have seen Thee, and they tremble; the tempest of waters floweth over; the deep uttereth its voice, and lifteth up its hands on high.
    11 The sun and moon stand still in their habitation; at the light of Thine arrows as they go, at the shining of Thy glittering spear.
    12 Thou marchest through the earth in indignation, Thou threshest the nations in anger.
    Habakkuk Chapter 3

  116. Hi Gabriel. Here’s the web site of this video’s maker and I’ll post 3 of 12

  117. Hi Michell
    The Wedding Model

    In this second article in our series on the Rapture, we will explore another reason why we favor a “pre-tribulation” view of the Harpz, the “snatching up” of the Church.

    All through the Gospels, Jesus relied on the ancient Jewish wedding pattern for many of His parables,1 climaxing in His promise in the Upper Room in John 14 (as reviewed in our previous article). Many of us miss the full import of these allusions if we aren’t familiar with the model of ancient Jewish wedding practices.

    Jewish Wedding

    The first step, the Ketubah, or Betrothal,2 was the establishment of the marriage covenant, usually when the prospective bridegroom took the initiative3 and negotiated the price (mohair) he must pay to purchase her.4

    Once the bridegroom paid the purchase price, the marriage covenant was established, and the young man and woman were regarded as husband and wife. 5 From that moment on, the bride was declared to be consecrated or sanctified – set apart – exclusively for her bridegroom.6 As a symbol of the covenant relationship that had been established, the groom and bride drank from a cup of wine over which the betrothal had been pronounced.7

    After the marriage covenant was established, the groom left his bride at her home and returned to his father’s house, where he remained separated from his bride for approximately 12 months.8 This afforded the bride time to gather her trousseau and prepare for married life. 9

    During this period of separation, the groom prepared a dwelling place in his father’s house to which he would later bring his bride. At the end of the period of separation, the bridegroom came – usually at night – to take his bride to live with him. The groom, the best man, and other male escorts left the father’s house and conducted a torch-light procession to the home of the bride. 10 Although the bride was expecting her groom to come for her, she did not know the time of his coming.11 As a result, the groom’s arrival was preceded by a shout,12 which announced her imminent departure to be gathered with him.

    After the groom received his bride, together with her female attendants, the enlarged wedding party returned from the bride’s home to the groom’s father’s house,13 where the wedding guests had assembled.

    Shortly after their arrival, the bride and groom were escorted by the other members of the wedding party to the bridal chamber (huppah). Prior to entering the chamber, the bride remained veiled so that no one could see her face. 14 While the groomsmen and bridesmaids waited outside, the bride and groom entered the bridal chamber alone. There, in the privacy of that place, they entered into physical union for the first time, thereby consummating the marriage that had been covenanted approximately one year earlier. 15

    After the marriage was consummated, the groom came out of the bridal chamber and announced the consummation of the marriage to the members of the wedding party waiting outside.16 Then, as the groom went back to his bride in the chamber, the members of the wedding party returned to the wedding guests and announced the consummation of the marriage. 17

    Upon receiving the good news, the wedding guests remained in the groom’s father’s house for the next seven days, celebrating with a great wedding feast.18

    During the seven days of the wedding feast, the bride and groom remained hidden in the bridal chamber19 (Cf. Genesis 29:21-23, 27-28) for the seven days of the huppah.20 Afterwards, the groom came out of hiding, bringing his bride with him, but with her veil removed so that everyone could see her.

    • I have heard that the 7 days of the huppah is the 7 years of tribulation and/or 3 1/2 years of the last part of the 7 years…therefore a mid trib rapture.

  118. Chuck Missler is a great teacher, I like him a lot. Unfortunately he still holds to a pre-trib, traditional dispensational view of eschatology (which has many textual and theological problems). Though, he is beginning to recognize that the Antichrist may come from Islam.

    I’ll answer a few of the claims he makes in the three videos above:

    Jesus says in John 14:2-3 that “In my Father’s house are many mansions … I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also.” According to Chuck Missler this is referring to a pre-trib rapture by incorrectly superimposing a Jewish wedding custom over the text in support of a pre-trib preconception.

    It is a giant leap away from sound hermeneutics to somehow assume that Christ is referring to a pre-trib rapture in John 14:2-3, which is found nowhere in the text.

    When we examine “mansions” (monē) we learn that it means “a staying, abiding, dwelling, abode; to make an (one’s) abode; metaph. of the God the Holy Spirit indwelling believers”. This is not referring to literal mansions up in Heaven. Even the word translated as “house” (oikia) means “a dwelling place”, or “room”. The usage of these words by Christ should remind us of something significant that we, as believers in Christ, have become. 1 Cor 6:19 says “do you not know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and you are not your own?” If our bodies are the temple does this mean that we have become the “Father’s house” (dwelling place or room)? Are there any verses that tell us that God will dwell in us? Absolutely. In John 14:23 Jesus says that “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.”

    When the Word of God became flesh His body became a room or dwelling place for He and His Father in the earth (2 Cor. 5:19; Col. 1:19-20). As a man He displayed or manifested all the attributes of His Father (Col. 1:15). Through obedience Jesus became the first and greatest room in His Father’s house (Col. 1:17-18). The Father was in His Son Jesus for the purpose of reconciling man unto Himself that He might continue to build His house of many rooms. Now He came in the likeness of sinful flesh according to the will of His Father, but He Himself knew no sin. If we know Him according to the flesh we know Him as the son of man, a prophet, or as just a good teacher of wisdom; or as just another man (Is. 53:2-3; Matt.16:13-14). If we know Him by revelation of the Spirit of God, we know Him as the Eternal Living Word or the Son of God; a vessel or an expression of His Father’s love (Matt. 16:16); and he becomes salvation to our souls.

    What is it that Christ is preparing? Christ is now building His Church (Matt 16:18) — not creating it anew as if it were something never seen before prior to New Testament believers. No, rather the building of the Church involves the preparation of God’s dwelling place, that is to say, Spiritual Israel, which you and I are now a part of because through Christ all of us who believe are “no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household, having been built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, in whom the whole building, being fitted together is growing into a holy temple in the Lord; in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit” (Eph 2:19-22).

    Chuck also referred to the “marriage supper” and implies that since it traditionally lasted for seven days then this refers to the “7 years of tribulation”. However, why is this feast (the Marriage Supper of the Lamb) only mentioned as taking place after the “great harlot” is judged (Rev 19:2)? This only happens at the end of the tribulation. Why does John not show this marriage as taking place at the beginning? Because it does not happen during the tribulation, only after. (Moreover, Rev 19:7 declares that the marriage of the Lamb is come “and his bride has made herself ready.” In Rev 21:9-12 we read, “And there came unto me one of the seven angels… saying, come hither, and I will shew thee the bride, the lamb’s wife. And he … shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem … which had a wall great and high, and twelve gates… and names written thereon which are the names of the twelve tribes of Israel.” According to Revelation 21, is the bride of Christ the New Testament Church, or is it Israel?)

    Chuck Missler also mentions The Blessed Hope, which many pre-trib adherents claim is referring to a rapture before the tribulation. But let’s look at what The Apostle Paul wrote in the epistle of Titus:

    Titus 1:2, 2:13, 3:7, “In hope of ETERNAL LIFE, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began … Looking for THAT blessed hope [eternal life], AND the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ… That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of ETERNAL LIFE.”

    Paul uses the word “hope” three times in his epistle — at the beginning when speaking about eternal life and then later while referring to that blessed hope, and then once more again near the end. Each time he is referring to the blessed hope of ETERNAL LIFE. Nowhere does Paul ever say that the “blessed hope” is our gathering to Christ. We are looking for the blessed hope of eternal life, and (in addition to) the glorious appearing of Christ.

    Some say that the Blessed Hope is referring to the glorious appearing. But do they really know what this means? The word for “appearing” is “epiphaneia” (G2015). What is significant about the “epiphaneia” of Christ? Let’s have a look:

    2 Thess 2:8, “And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness [epiphaneia G2015] of his coming”

    The “epiphaneia” is post-trib. If one is to believe that the “blessed hope” is the “epiphaneia”, then they must therefore also believe that the blessed hope is his post-trib appearance and gathering of the elect.

    The “blessed hope” is eternal life, and the appearing of Christ mentioned in Titus is obviously his post-trib Second Coming. Everything that pre-trib uses to support a pre-trib rapture always points to a post-trib rapture when we contextualize the Scripture and learn the intended meaning of the text.

  119. We have a Before and AFTER in Matthew 24 and Joel 2.
    Matthew 24..29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

    30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

    31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

    Joel 2: 31The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, BEFORE the great and terrible day of the LORD come

    I believe the tribulation begain in 2008 and will end Sept 2015…..the next and final solar and lunar eclipses occuring on Jewish HOly Days will be 2014/2015

    “Intrigued with the Scriptures that repeat over and over again that our Savior’s Second Coming will be heralded with signs in the heavens, in which the sun will be turned into darkness and the moon into blood, Pastor Mark Biltz went on the Internet, to a U.S. Government web site, to see if he could find any solar or lunar eclipses over the next few years that might be significant.

    To his surprise, he found four lunar eclipses and two solar eclipses in the Sabbatical Year of 2014 and 2015. Also, he noticed that they all appear on Jewish Holy Days!

    Lunar Eclipses

    The four lunar eclipses will occur on:

    Passover, April 15, 2014
    The Feast of Tabernacles, October 8, 2014
    Passover, April 4, 2015 and
    The Feast of Tabernacles, September 28, 2015

    This is most unusual. It is a rare occurrence for four lunar cycles to happen on successive Passover and the Feast of Tabernacles (Sukkot) observances. It will not happen again for hundreds of years. However, Mark found that a series of four lunar eclipses on these particular holy days did occur in the twentieth century — not once, but twice! The first set occurred in 1949-1950, the year after Israel became a state! The second set happened in 1967-1968, the year Israel liberated Jerusalem! Such a phenomenon is nigh unto impossible, unless it was set up by Divine design. Mark looked back in history and noticed that the last time this set of four lunar eclipses occurred on Passover and Sukkot was in 1493, the year after Columbus sailed the ocean blue and Spain expelled all Jews.

    Mark is convinced that God was telling the beleaguered Jews that He was fully aware of their circumstances! In that case, we wonder what is God telling the Jews in the 1949 and 1967 lunar eclipses? And, as we look at the next seven years, we wonder, “What is God telling Israel through the upcoming lunar eclipses?” Is it possible that these are fulfilling biblical prophecies?

    Solar Eclipses

    In addition to the four lunar eclipses in 2014-15, Mark also found two solar eclipses. They will occur on:

    Adar 29/Nisan 1, March 20, 2015
    The Feast of Trumpets, September 13, 2015

    I believe this to be “cut and dry”….if also due to the fact that the Feast of Trumpets is the Jewish Holy Day where “no one knows the day or Hour”!! Matthew 24:36

  120. So, in essence, Jesus is telling us in Matthew 24 that it will be AFTER the tribulation that the angels gather the elect (post trib) and in Joel 2 It is AFTER the TRIBULATION that “the great and terrible day occurs” (G-Ds Wrath)

    Feast of trumpets is “the day that noone knows the day or hour” which is what Jesus was HINTING at when he mentioned this…Matthew 24:36 and this is also making a reference to the jewish wedding that Kitti describes above…the groom did not know the “day or hour” to retrieve his bride until his father told him to…only his father knew….

    So, with the tribulation allegedly beginning in 2008….At least 2 seals are already broken and possibly 2 trumpets….where does that put us in regards to a timeframe for Gog and Magog war? etc….

    Me, personally, after learning the above and going thru it, I honestly don’t see it happening any other way-logically speaking.

  121. I don’t believe the tribulation is 7 years (there is nothing in Scripture about a 7 year tribulation), only 3.5 prophetic years of Great Tribulation. But, yes, the Day of the Lord is only after the tribulation and not “during” the tribulation like the pre-trib strains to condend. There are in fact passages that absolutely forbid the “Day of the Lord” from overlapping the tribulation. The two are mutually exclusive.

    Here are five examples:

    1. Throughout the Old Testament, very specific celestial signs are associated with the coming of the Day of the Lord. The darkening of the sun and moon will usher in that day (Isa 13:9,10, Isa 24:19-23, Joel 3:13-15). Here is one example.

    Joel 2:31 “The sun shall be turned into darkness, And the moon into blood, BEFORE the coming of the great and awesome day of the LORD.

    Matt 24:29 “Immediately AFTER the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.”

    These verses establish a clear sequence of events. They place the cosmic signs, the darkening of the sun and moon, between the end of the tribulation and the beginning of the Day of the Lord. This absolutely forbids any overlapping of the tribulation into the Day of the Lord. They are distinct events. No other interpretation is possible without purposefully twisting these passages.

    2. The very first time the Day of the Lord is mentioned in the Bible, the text clearly forbids associating it with the tribulation. Isaiah describes the “Day of the Lord” as follows:

    Isa 2:10-19, “Enter into the rock, and hide in the dust, From the terror of the LORD And the glory of His majesty. The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, The haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, And THE LORD ALONE shall be exalted in that day. For the day of the LORD of hosts Shall come upon everything proud and lofty, Upon everything lifted up — And it shall be brought low — Upon all the cedars of Lebanon that are high and lifted up, And upon all the oaks of Bashan; Upon all the high mountains, And upon all the hills that are lifted up; Upon every high tower, And upon every fortified wall; Upon all the ships of Tarshish, And upon all the beautiful sloops. The loftiness of man shall be bowed down, And the haughtiness of men shall be brought low; THE LORD ALONE will be exalted in that day, But the idols He shall utterly abolish. They shall go into the holes of the rocks, And into the caves of the earth, From the terror of the LORD And the glory of His majesty, When He arises to shake the earth mightily.”

    Twice these verses indicate that the Lord alone will be exalted in the Day of the Lord. This is an exclusive statement. No one else can be exalted or worshipped during the Day of the Lord. Yet, during the tribulation, the Antichrist will be worshipped as God (Rev 13:3-8,14, 2 Thess 2:4) and his image will be worshipped as well. Isaiah’s statements about the Lord alone being exalted, and the idols being abolished during the Day of the Lord forbids any overlapping with the tribulation and reign of Antichrist.

    3. Zechariah 14:7 indicates that the Day of the Lord may just be one literal day. The Hebrew text says “one day” — Zechariah 14:1,7 says “Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee… But it shall be one day (echad yowm) which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, [that] at evening time it shall be light.” (Also see Isaiah 10:17, “And the light of Israel shall be for a fire, and his Holy One for a flame: and it shall burn and devour his thorns and his briers in one day (echad yowm)”).

    4. In Isaiah 13:9, Joel 2:1 and Zech 14:1 we read in each of these verses that “the Day of the Lord COMETH”, and in each verse the text immediately begins to describe the battle of Armageddon. The word “cometh” or “at hand” is the Hebrew word “bow” and it means “to come” or “arrive”, and it implies the beginning of the Day of the Lord. In each case the arrival of the Day of the Lord brings about the battle of Armageddon.

    5. Joel 3:9-17 describes the gathering of the armies of the nations around Jerusalem for the battle of Armageddon, the cosmic signs, and the coming of the Lord. AFTER the armies are gathered, but BEFORE the cosmic signs, Joel wrote that the Day of the Lord is “near.” The Hebrew word means “at hand,” “imminent,” or “next in sequence”. The Day of the Lord must begin AFTER the armies of the nations are gathered for the battle, which occurs at the end of the tribulation, according to Rev 16:13-16.

    The pre-trib position tries to stretch the Day of the Lord into the tribulation, but no one has ever provided any biblical requirement for doing so — because it cannot be done. In fact, none of the Old Testament passages support the pre-trib idea, as we can clearly see above. It comes only from a preconceived assumption of a pre-trib rapture superimposed on the text. It is “reverse engineering” of the Scriptures in order to get the desired outcome rather than applying sound rules of interpretation.

  122. Mitchel;
    You said above that you don’t think the tribulation is 7 years. This is what I was taught. What do you think? This is someone else’s words, of course.

    Daniel 9:27:

    “And he shall confirm the covenant [or more correctly, “a” covenant] with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. (Italics are added in Scripture verses throughout this work to emphasize points.)

    Week of Years. Some terms in this verse need defining. “Week” is agreed by many Bible scholars to mean “week of years” rather than a week of days. How do they know this? The Hebrew word translated “week” simply means “seven.” It could refer to seven days, seven years, or seven anything. The word is simply “seven.” Now Genesis 29:27 is a case were the word obviously refers to seven years, because Jacob served one “week” or seven years for Rachel. Likewise, in Daniel 9:27 the meaning “seven years” best fits the context. I won’t go into all the reasons for that here since other writers have already done that. Many post-tribs agree that this means seven years”

  123. I agree that it is referring to “weeks of years”, but I also believe that at least the first half of the 70th week was already fulfilled. The question is who is the “he” that is referred to in Dan 9:27, at least in the first part of the verse. The notion that it is referring to the Antichrist is a relatively new one, and until recently the Church seemed to have understood that it is rather referring directly to the work of Christ Himself (that is to say, it is still referring to the person in the context of Dan 9:25, the Messiah). In discussing the work of Christ on the cross and how it relates to Daniel 9:27, Matthew Henry says the following:

    “He [Messiah] must confirm the covenant with many. He shall introduce a new covenant between God and man, a covenant of grace, since it had become impossible for us to be saved by a covenant of innocence. This covenant he shall confirm by his doctrine and miracles, by his death and resurrection, by the ordinances of baptism and the Lord’s supper, which are the seals of the New Testament, assuring us that God is willing to accept us upon gospel-terms. His death made his testament of force, and enabled us to claim what is bequeathed by it. He confirmed it to the many, to the common people; the poor were evangelized, when the rulers and Pharisees believed not on him. Or, he confirmed it with many, with the Gentile world. The New Testament was not (like the Old) confined to the Jewish church, but was committed to all nations. Christ gave his life a ransom for many. [7.] He must cause the sacrifice and oblation to cease. By offering himself a sacrifice once for all he shall put an end to all the Levitical sacrifices, shall supercede them and set them aside; when the substance comes the shadows shall be done away. He causes all the peace-offerings to cease when he has made peace by the blood of his cross, and by it confirmed the covenant of peace and reconciliation. By the preaching of his gospel to the world, with which the apostles were entrusted, he took men off from expecting remission by the blood of bulls and goats, and so caused the sacrifice and oblation to cease. The apostle in his epistle to the Hebrews shows what a better priesthood, altar, and sacrifice, we have now than they had under the law, as a reason why we should hold fast our profession.”

    Regarding 9:27, John Wesley — one of the great theological minds of the 18th century — writes the following:

    “He shall confirm – Christ confirmed the new covenant, By the testimony of angels, of John baptist, of the wise men, of the saints then living, of Moses and Elias. By his preaching. By signs and wonders. By his holy life. By his resurrection and ascension. By his death and blood shedding. Shall cause the sacrifice to cease – All the Jewish rites, and Levitical worship. By his death he abrogated, and put an end to this laborious service, for ever. And that determined – That spirit of slumber, which God has determined to pour on the desolate nation, ’till the time draws near, when all Israel shall be saved.”

    Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary states,

    “…he shall confirm the covenant – Christ. The confirmation of the covenant is assigned to Him also elsewhere. Isa 42:6, “I will give thee for a covenant of the people” (that is, He in whom the covenant between Israel and God is personally expressed); compare Lu 22:20, “The new testament in My blood”; Mal 3:1, “the angel of the covenant”; Jer 31:31-34, describes the Messianic covenant in full.”

    Some believe that the entire 70th week was already fulfilled, others believe that it was only partially fulfilled. I am open to various opinions in this regard, but am leaning towards the position that it was only partially fulfilled and the other half is yet to come — the 1260 days / 42 months / time, times and the dividing of time (3.5 prophetic years of Antichrist). It is easier to see how this could be in the rendering of the NKJV:

    NKJV Dan 9:27, “Then he [Messiah] shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He [Messiah] shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall be one [Anti-Messiah] who makes desolate, Even until the consummation, which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate.”

    The bottom line is that the Messiah is mentioned more times in Daniel 9:25-26 than anyone else. That is Daniel’s primary focus.

    Dan 9:27a, “And HE SHALL CONFIRM THE COVENANT with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease…”

    Gal 3:17, “And this I say, [that] THE COVENANT, THAT WAS CONFIRMED BEFORE OF GOD IN CHRIST, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.”

    Heb 8:6-8, “Heb 8:6-8, “… he [Christ] IS THE MEDIATOR OF A BETTER COVENANT, which was established upon better promises. For if that first [covenant] had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.”

    Heb 10:1-10, “For the law … can never with these same sacrifices … make those who approach perfect. FOR THEN WOULD THEY NOT HAVE CEASED TO BE OFFERED?… For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins. Therefore, when He came into the world, He said: “Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, But a body You have prepared for Me. In burnt offerings and [sacrifices] for sin You had no pleasure. Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come — In the volume of the book it is written of Me — To do Your will, O God.'” … then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God.” HE TAKES AWAY THE FIRST THAT HE MAY ESTABLISH THE SECOND. By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once [for all].”

    Christ caused the physical sacrifice and oblation to cease. Jesus was crucified and died to be the final sacrifice for the Jewish nation, and for the Gentile world. Though Jews who did not believe continued to sacrifice according to the old covenant, doing so now estranged them from God (Gal 5:4). The sacrifice and oblation ceased from being acceptable to God, or of any value. Matthew 24:50-51 reads, “And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit. Then, behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom …”

  124. i am shocked to see this site Who ever has written this site?? This site is an open propagenda against muslims. This site is definately not , i repeat NOT written by any mustlim. Whatever it contains is totally not the muslim ways. Whoever reads this site please please understand that we muslims dont go by the numerical rules to find out what the future holds. No, one of our basic beliefs is to believe in fate, that whatever good or bad will happen is only from Allah (S.W.T) will. The day of judgment no body can predict, its knowledge is only with Allah.

    • hi Seher

      Where did you see that link on this page?

    • “that whatever good or bad will happen is only from Allah (S.W.T.) will.

      The G-d who made heaven, earth, was murdered, and rose from the dead for all mankinds sin, gave all humans free choice. Who is Allah?

  125. I must be very ignorant on these things. I don’t see the name Allah or anything Muslim about it. Why do you consider it propaganda against muslims? I tried to download the video to see what it had to say and I was not successful.

  126. Lyndsey;
    That’s a cool video “Beloved”. It fit perfect.

  127. The Muslims have their version of Gog and Magog. It would behoove all of us to learn more about it to engage them in debate.

    They have videos out on Gog and Magog. I ran across this today.

  128. Dude, you clearly have issues, first of all Muslims don’t treat Christians as Anti-Christ, or if Christians even believed that Muslims are anti-Christ then, they’re either jewish converted Christians or Communists or a blind folded Vatican believer. About the anti-Christ, Dajjal, he’s as powerful as the Christ himself, but Jesus Christ would be the only one to defeat him. It’s said that Dajjal is so powerful that he’ll convince not only jews, christians, but muslims as well that he is indeed the Mesiah, but it is also mentioned that Mesiah (Jesus Christ) would see through both eyes and Dajjal is either right or left eye blinded. If you really want to talk about religion you’ll have to read them all, reading a holy book by the Vaticans wouldn’t be helpful.

    • Islam treats everyone inside the house of war as an enemy. Christians do not treat Muslims as the Anti-Christ, they treat them as those who follow a false religion from a man who murdered, and raped most of his adult life. His name is Mohammad.

      I agree, the Vatican is not Christian, but of man’s tradition mixed with paganism, and Chistian information.

  129. you are clearly a deluded nutcase in need of some friends and a week out of the house where you’re not tied to a bed being read the bible and whipped by your paedophile preacher!

  130. looooooooooooool

    man do you acctually believe urself…loooooool

    first of all niether muslims not christians are yagog or magog..

    second of all jesus isne resurrected to kill christians u nitwit

    he will only kill the antichrist..

    anyway not that important…you made me laugh so much i hurt:D:D

    peace man..and get a life will ya..:d

  131. …. im confused.. if Christian is the true religion, n Isa (Jesus) is your God, why u, all of the Christians can draw, even can imagine how he is, his face, his body.. do u realize, he is just a human being?? just like all of us?? he is just a Messenger of God, in Islam it was called “Rasul”… juz like another religion, they can imagine all of their “God”. but in Islam, we do not did such a thing! b`coz we believe, our God cannot be seen by the eyes… but He is everywhere… i mean, he knows what we did! b`coz he is The Allmighty!! subhanallah… thats why we cannot imagine, furthermore draw a picture of ‘OUR’ God! n by saying The Dajjal is Christian, u are wrong!! truely, Dajjal is from Jews @ Yahudi.. do u realize what the Jews did to us?? find it urself, I DARE u!!! eg, 9/11 tragadies…. Freemason, Illuminati.. The New World Order.. etc.. I DARE U all of the CHRISTIAN!!! find the truth.. throw away ur bad feeling to Muslim.. n i agreed with the statement the Isa @ Jesus will comeback sooner or later.. to help Imam Mahdi.. but not to kill u, all the Christians! but just to guide u to a true path.. remember this word… after Isa @ Jesus come, n Imam Mahdi also, Imam Mahdi will be `Imam` @ Head to perform solat @ pray.. but b`coz a respect to Isa @ Jesus as a Rasul @ Messenger of God, he ask Isa @ Jesus to be a Imam @ Head to perform that solat @ pray… but Isa @ Jesus deny it, n ask Imam Mahdi lead that solat @ pray himself… do u know why???? b`coz Isa @ Jesus want His followers to follow the teaching of Islam, which is bring by Muhammad SAW (n of coz from Allah, OUR GOD). even Isa @ Jesus, that u believe as a God will follow the teaching of Islam, how can u, as a Christians cannot follow Him? think it with our pure heart n soul……..

    ~im finished my responsibility as a Muslim, to tell u all the truth… up to u to believe it or not… Allahuakbar!!

    • dear arip

      I hope you realize, by your own words, that you make Muhammad your god.

      Since you do not allow drawing a picture of god, but it is ok to draw a human.

      By forbidding people to draw Muhammad, you have elevated him to be equal to god.

      There is nothing in the bible to forbid us to draw a picture of Jesus.

      Most images of Jesus are copied from the Shroud of Turin, a cloth where Jesus left an image of his face when he was about to be crucified. So, Jesus gave us a copy of his face to use.

      The Father in heaven is God. Jesus is the son of God. The Father is the God of Jesus. However, Jesus is divine, as He was a heavenly being who came to earth, to do the will of His Father. So, the Father expects us to honor him as his son, and as the Messiah.

      So Jesus is MORE than just a messenger.

      That might confuse you, since the traditional catholic teaching is different from what I said. However, I just follow what the bible teaches.

  132. hi… i juz wanna tell u.. it was juz ur conclusion marianne… it doesn`t mean by we as a Muslim can`t draw Muhammad picture, he was a God! i said it, he was a Messenger of God(Allah)… n for ur information, nobody, i repeat,, nobody can be a GOD!! it was just ALLAH!! allahuakbar… n i want u to know(if u really don`t know), did u realize that Bible was already being formatted?? did u really know that Bible was already being changed from it original ‘Holy Book’?? n ‘they’ changed it b`coz the original 1 said, “after Isa @ Jesus, there will be another Messenger of God @ Rasul, which is the last one… n u, all the Christians must follow his teaching.. his name was Ahmad @ Muhammad… do u believe it? i really hope u do… like i said, find the truth sis…. Laailaahaillallah,, Muhammadarrasuulullaahh…

    • dear arip

      Well you said it, not me. Muhammad is your god. So now you have 2 gods.

      The garbage you believe about the bible is not true…..there is no proof.

      You cannot find any original bible that predicts Muhammad, because it does not exist, and never has.

      Jesus predicted the holy spirit would come while his disciples were still alive, and they were to wait in Jerusalem for him, The holy spirit came 50 days later on the feast of Pentecost.

      Muhammad is not the holy spirit. He was a sinner who died without the salvation offered by Jesus.

    • dear arip

      Well you said it, not me. Muhammad is your god. So now you have 2 gods.

      The garbage you believe about the bible is not true…..there is no proof.

      You cannot find any original bible that predicts Muhammad, because it does not exist, and never has.

      Jesus predicted the holy spirit would come while his disciples were still alive, and they were to wait in Jerusalem for him, The holy spirit came 50 days later on the feast of Pentecost.

      Muhammad is not the holy spirit. He was a sinner, like many others, who died without the salvation offered by Jesus.

    • You have been deceived arip.

    • Allah, the god, is a false moon god. One of 360 false gods at the Kabba. Mohammad made eveyone pray only to Allah. Allah Akbar, Allah is greatest. Greatest of what? Greatest of all other gods at the kabba.

      Mohammad murdered, and raped, Christ loved, healed, was murdered, rose from the dead for human sin, and sits at the right hand of G-d the Father maker of Heaven, and earth.

      Do you know of any terrorist attacks being planned?

  133. you all the Christians, you all juz dont know how to find the truth… u too ego to accept Muhammad.. and u too ego to accept the truth in al-Quran… well, my work in Islam stop here for u… remember, afterwards, after we were being `wakeup again` in front Allah, don`t u dare to tell ‘Him’ i`m not telling u about Islam… may Allah open your heart for the truth…. Amiin…

    • May God bless you Arip.

    • Allah, the god, is a false moon god. It can not hear, or see. It is one of 360 false gods at the Kabba. Mohammad, who raped, and murdered made everyone worship the god, or they could get their head cut off.

      Islam does not mean peace. It means submit.

  134. This whole story is a result of KURI.

  135. KURU (png)

  136. Marianne, Excellent study! I think you are right on target with this! I’m back studying Ez 38 & 39, make message or series of messages to preach, and ran across your study when I typed in Gog and Magog in the search engine.

    • hi Mike

      Thanks. History sometimes has a foreshadowing event, which prepares us for the final event. For example, Antiochus was a antichrist figure who violated the temple, but did not fulfill ALL the prophecies. Now there will be the true antichrist figure who will be part of the final event.

      In the same way, I expect a foreshadowing event to occur before the final Ezechiel 38 war (Gog), who comes against Israel. Currently, there are more Jews in America than there are in Israel. Watch for an event, or set of events, in the USA.

  137. Marianne,europeans are not cowards and you’re promoting hatred online..if you visit european countries you’ll see that its thuggish skinheads who hate all the immigrants including muslims..why didn’t you visit Iraq during invasion to spread the word there? you’d see how poor innocent kids getting killed or crippled so that your corrupt evil government would pump more gas to your V8 engine environment-murdering car..
    God Damn USA for killing innocent children and being gays..if God loves USA why did he sent Katrina to expose your hypocrisy?
    keep on being gays and killing children if you must but don’t you dare calling muslims unbelievers because you’re the only unbelievers and those who went astray and for that JESUS CHRIST WILL BE THERE WAITING FOR YOU IN THE JUDGEMENT DAY

    • dear John

      I did not say Europeans are cowards, although they DID back out of the war on terrorism when the muslims threatened to cut off their oil, and also bombed and terrorized its citizens. American sacrificed their owns lives, and did not take any oil from there, and spend billions of dollars helping the people of Iraq.

      Americans are not responsible for the violent behavior of muslims in Iraq against the innocents. The terrorists are those who killed and crippled and killed. Accusing Americans of doing that is a bunch of crap. Terrorists are liars. They belong to Satan. We were there to defend the citizens, especially the children, doing the best we could against a bunch of savages.

      Terrorists are a bunch of demon possessed creatures. They are not even human. Look to them if you want to know what evil is.

      Katrina came because we betrayed ISrael, and forced it to harm itself by giving up God’s land to the Palestinian terrorists.

      • Agreed 100%. I think it is time, if we are going to free countries from evil, we should start paying for it with that countries goods. Like oil.

        Of course, then we would not be who we are. Isn’t that something!

  138. I can not believe what I read. Why do Muslims attribute the fact that they have nothing to do. “Allah, the god, is a false moon god. It can not hear, or see. It is one of 360 false gods at the Kabbah. Mohammad, who raped, murdered and made everyone worship the god, or they could get their head cut off.
    Islam does not mean peace. It means submit. “This is a lie. reading the wrong books. Allah is the God who sent Adam, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad. This is the same God. If there are people among the Muslims who make the mess, whether that means whole Islam like this? in the Christian world, there are ETA, IRA … Does that mean that Christianity is a terrorist religion? sow the Vietnam, Cambodia, Korea, Hiroshima, Nagasaki. per million is dead. killed by Americans. what was with the Indians ? entire civilization are destroyed. Afghanistan and Iraq are leveled to the ground. 800 000 civilians in Iraq have killed you. and you say that you have brought freedom and peace. is it the best you’ve had? talk about democracy and freedom, and banning these people to are Muslims, and compare them with Satan. you do not know Islam. you just guessing …

    • Muhammad murdered anyone who spoke against him. You can start with the two poets. Allah is a true Arabic word meaning the god. Allah, the god worshiped by Muhammad’s Father, and Uncle is/was but one of 360 gods at the Kabba. Muhammad stated it was just the only one. Correct history shows Allah to be the god Sin, or the moon god.

      You do have the moon on your Mosques don’t you?

      In the Koran, Jesus was not murdered on the cross, and rose from the dead. I do not know the Islamic Jesus.

      Did Muhammad marry a 7 year old girl? At what age did he rape her? 9?

      I realize the truth is painful, and not what your Imams have taught you from a early age. Did you get a good beating if you did not rock back, and forth correctly while learing the Koran?`

      You can never know Allah, but you can get to know the G-d that died for your sins. Pray to G-d the Father in Christ’s name. He will fill your soul with love.

  139. Allah means “true God” (besides him, there is no other God). Us Muslims are strictly forbidden worship anything except God. Allah (God) is the one who created everything. and people, and planets and the sun and the moon …. why would we worship the moon next to the God who created all this. to anywhere in the Koran does not say. that you invented. what are the “certain” the mosque is a month that does not mean that we worship the moon. We believe in one God who is the job of Adam, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and finally Muhammad (as).

    all the prophets who came, came with a proof that God sent him. Jesus had no evidence that it was God sent, it is also evidence that Muhammad was a God sent him.

    The truth does not hurt me that Muhammad married a girl of 7 years. because God had commanded him to marry her. But he never came to her in the marital relationship while she did not become a mature person. It’s true. studying and doing a bit better and you will see the truth.

    Muhammad did not kill anyone who spoke against him. Muhammad is his 10 years in Mecca, called Islam a peaceful manner. so are the enemies attacked him that he had to move to Medina. Muslims are ordered the fight when they were attacked. Tell me, if Muslims have the right to defend themselves if attacked by someone? either know that the Muslims led by Muhammad (as) took Mecca without arrows were fired.

    The first thing he did when Muhammad entered Mecca, kissed her his enemy. it is the truth.

    We have about Jesus is far better opinion of you Christians. you compare it with the sacrificial sheep. Jesus was a sacrificial sheep, but God sent him to the people refer to the right path. We Muslims believe in Jesus, but Muhammad (as) the last in a series of prophets ….

    There is no need to pozivaš me to believe in a God who sent Jesus. We Muslims believe in the God, that God is Allah. but God is our father, or father of Jesus. He is our creator. God has no wife, nor have any children. You can not be a wedding to be born and that there is no father. So how did the first man? had neither father nor mother, God (Allah) created him from the country.

    • dear man of peace

      I disagree. God does not need a wife to have a son. He is God, and can do anything he desires. Jesus is God’s son by spirit, not flesh.

      Muhammed had a history of committing murders.

      He had sex with a girl when she was 9 years old. That is child abuse.

      Jesus was perfect in his life, and MORE than a prophet. He never sinned. Muhammed was a common sinner.

  140. Jesus is not God’s son. You do not have evidence for it anywhere. you invented it on a son of God. Why would God onad the sort of way killed your son? ate God was happy when they killed Jesus? If Jesus was sacrificed in order to save people from hell, then the Muslims go to heaven, because Muslims believe in Jesus. and we have nothing against Jesus, against.

    about Muhammad, you may want to lie to you, the facts tell a different story … Muhammad was killed, as you say, and not molested any girls. bring evidence if it is true what you say.

    Islam was first abolished racism. tell me when the Americans were eliminated racism? What are Americans doing to blacks in America? What the Americans did with the Indians? Hiroshima, Nagasaki, Vietnam … and you speak as Muhammad is killed. Muhammad was fighting with his people as Moses struggled with her … but you can not do that wedding. because you want to hate Muslims. you do not know Islam. I can not understand your people. you keep lying against Muslims. Why? Why do you hate Muslims? Do Muslims have a right to live like druguh people? Why are these?

    you are against us, just tell lies. We can be against you speak the truth …

    • I can not write for everyone, but I do not think we hate Muslims. I myself, hate Islam. As it is a pagan religion praying to a false god, and following a mad man who raped, and murdered.

      “Jesus is not God’s son.”

      I realize you have not been around anyone who teaches correct history, but I urge you to read for yourself how things were before Muhammad. Then read a correct histoy on what Muhammad did; Like, raiding caravans, raping slaves, and murdering thousands. All to gain wealth, and power in this world

      Jesus Christ, the word made flesh, loved humans so much he allowed himself to be murdered after a sinless life for the sins of mankind.

      If you refuse G-d’s love, you will be judged by the law. All humans break the law, and can not stand a lone.

      Haveing sex with 70 virgins, and drinking heaps of wine is not allowed on earth. Well, most of the time. How can it be allowed in Heaven?

      Good luck with works only getting you into Heaven. I really will not be happy to see you denied Heaven.

  141. with you is impossible to talk. so that you do not know. so lie. I told you to give me proof that what you are talking about, but you do not give because they do not. It is sad to think that only. me every day but more surprising to Westerners kakvome not knowing how you live.

    Islam is not a pagan religion. You know what the pagan religions. because you know, I would not be able to say that Islam is Islam, pagan religions. you to speak because they have no knowledge, and because they’re extremely minded person …..

    As I said, “you lie about us, and we can be against you speak the truth”

    Muhammad a.s. said: who is for me to hear, and not followed me, this is lost on the Day of Judgement. ”

    I interrupt the discussion. E-sellamu!

    • dear a man of peace

      Proof that Jesus is God’s son is in the bible…which is the truth.

      Jesus said he was the son of God. If you honor him, why don’t you believe him? Do you think Jesus lied about himself?

      The Quran teaches anti-semitism, to hate Jews as dogs and pigs. That is racism.

  142. dear Marianne

    the Qur’an does not state that the Jews are dogs and pigs. You’re lying. It is not written anywhere. and this is proof that you do not know the Quran. the Quran says that Jews are a prilikke violated and turned into pigs. and to know the Jews. It is no secret. From that day the Jews the Sabbath is a holy day, because they sinned because they are hunted on Saturdays, and there they are forbidden. and only a small group of Jews turned into apes and pigs and they are equally died 3 days. It is not hate speech but an event that occurred. and the Jews know. and you take the Jewish Talmud and read it. and you will only then to see what the book of violence. in this book is an open invitation to abuse, murder, oppression … in this book is mentioned when it is the last prophet, all nations will follow him, and all will be forgiven except Christians, because they are descendants of pigs and monkeys. It is written in the Jewish Talmud. If you do not believe it take to read it.

    and we Muslims say that no one nation is not a descendant of pigs and monkeys. all peoples: Muslims, Christians, Jews, everyone …. were created by one man, from Adam …

    Stop lying. start telling the truth. so do not have any truth to tell me. you speak against Islam are lies … start telling the truth …

    • THe Quran is a lie. There has never been any Jews turned into a pig.

      The REAL Jewish Talmud does not say this either.

      There is an Islamic slander version, which has lies in it.

      Learn the truth.

      Read the bible.

  143. “For Jews, there is a law that everything which is in connection with the Christian Church and destroy.” (Šulhan aruh, Joreh Deah 146).

    “Christ is the son of a prostitute. He is a bastard.” (Tokdoš Jezu).

    “Christ was crazy. He is a magician. His name is Ben shtada (son of a prostitute).” (Talmud, Sabbath 104b).

    “Christ is the son of a menstrual period. It is pandreat Ben (Ben Pandera), that son of unclean animals.” (Tokdoš Jezu).

    Christ was buried in a rubbish heap die a dog. “(Sahara).

    “Then the Jews will be immensely rich because they will treasure throughout the world in their hands to be. All the nations will move into the Jewish faith only Christians will not be allowed, but will be completely cut off, because they originate from the devil.” (Talmud, Jebamot 24b, Abodi 3b).

    “God created the non-Jews, even though they are level with animals, and gave them a form of man, for not fitting the Jew to be served by livestock. So he used animals in human form.” (Šulhan aruh, Mudraš talpiot 225).

    such nonsense in the Talmud, you can find thousands. we Muslims for Jesus do not have such an opinion. for whom we claim to have been an honorable reject, and that his mother was a fair woman. and Jesus is God made of mothers without a father. and so it did boh miracle that people find it easier to believe that he came as a sign ….. distract people from the bad and went to the well.

    • This is Islamic literature, not Jewish.

      You are not quoting from the Talmud, just an Islamic counterfeit.

      I have read the real one. This information is not in there.

      Šulhan aruh, Mudraš talpiot 225, for example, does not exist in the real Talmud.

      Please wake up and find the truth.

      These are false documents produced by Islam to deceive you.

      • hahaha …. this is to find on a Christian site. and this is not a Muslim problem. This is a Christian problem. why would I lie? This is my business. is no reason to hate the Jews because they toha offend Christians.

        • It is your way of speaking. I can not believe it. Hebrew scriptures, you make allowance for Islam. and then saying that Islam is wrong, and we know you and I are lying. this is funny ….. I can not believe you think so ….

  144. Marianne you’re stupid. next you do not see clear evidence. The Quran is the truth. in any part of the world you go you will find the same Qur’an. and how much you have from different versions of the Bible. have hundreds. The Vatican recognizes the fourth … hahahah so what is the correct 4. each new edition of the Bible is different than the previous. I can not read the Bible when you do not know which is right. the one the Bible says Jesus is God, and the other says Jesus son of God …… hahaha ….. what is the truth you are embroiled in their own trap …..

    My book is the Quran. and does not intend to change. I have you ceased your vijeru. but you do not accept. besides you do not see clear evidence. and is attributed to Islam, things that Islam has nothing to do. Sadly this is how you stupid nation. according to your story will be that the Jews were not released but Isusan Muslims. according to your story will be that Muslims are crucified Jesus.

    just continue to lie. That is the best. and stay in a lie. and the truth is in second place. I am glad that I’m Muslim. and I am glad that my people are not stupid like you. I do not lie, and do not invent some things that I would say it is for you. we speak the truth against you.

    Jesus is not God’s son. He is a Prophet of God. Jesus was not crucified, but Allah raised him myself, saved him. Allah will send him back to earth to kill the Antichrist (Dajjal). and this is the antichrist, whose followers American presednici. Only the true God Allah, and Muhammad (as) is Allah’s Prophet. it is the truth, and it will remain so until Judgement Day …. and you comfort that Islam is a false religion ….. ALLAHUAKBAR !!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • The truth of the bible has already been established. There are not hundreds of versions only translations into different languages.


      All bibles say Jesus is the son of God. Jesus has a divine nature. And that is in all bibles also.

      Muhammed knew nothing about Jesus, and even got his name wrong. He called him Esau, which is where your “Isa” comes from.

      He made up things about Jesus, which is just his opinion.

      The entire Quran is personal opinion……and it is a collection of many men’s writings, all claiming to write what Muhammed said.

      THe gospels were written by those who knew Jesus and what he said.

      Muhammed was not there, and knows nothing about Jesus.

      He was not qualified to write about Jesus. He was not knowledgable.

      • The Bible used by Roman Catholics is composed of 73 chapters of the Bible, while the Bible used by the evangelists and their various denominations of 66 biblical chapters.

        So, today we have used different but generally accepted version of the Bible: New International Version, New American Standard Bible, King James Version, New King James Version, 21st Century King James Version, Roman Catholic Bible, Luther Bible 1554, Ecumenical Bible, etc.

        Bible used by Jehovah’s Witnesses, which is entitled “The New World Translation” or “New World Translation. ”

        differences between the Bible are enormous. and none are the same.

        You say the Quran is mišljnje more men. even the Bible is the word of men. nowhere in the Bible gospel according to Jesus. It is all opinion of other ljudi.Kur ‘an, to the word of God, these are the words of Allah. you are a Bible inverted. You do not have a Bible that was written in Hebrew for the living Jesus. we have the Quran which was written during the lifetime of the Prophet Muhammad. Today, there are the millions Qur’an. and no one yet prinašao contradiction in either. a Bible with you each have dozens of contradictions.

        Leave the Bible, read the Qur’an until too late …

    • What part of the Christian Bible is not written correctly?

      On the Hajj, do you walk around the Kabba, and kiss the black rock? Is Ramadan over in September when you see the horns of the bull in the sky? Are the horns of the bull on top of your Mosques? How many gods were at the Kabba when Muhommad grew up? Isn’t Muhammad’s Father called slave of Allah?

      Allah Akbar means the god is greatest. Greatest of what? The god is greatest of all other gods at the Kabba. Allah is the pagan moon god Sin/Hubal/Allah.

      We are not here to lie, so read a correct history book before it is to late.

      • I explain in gojega God we believe in what he sent Jesus, He sent Muhammad (as). that you have trouble reading this is your problem. can you talk about how you want the God of the moon that is not true. jas I explained, but I nečudi what you are saying so. You speak so because you lažiov, and ignorant …. accept Islam before you is late. If you accept Islam you will live in the truth

        • Islam is a death cult following a mad man. Muhammad, I bet, burns in hell. I will never pray to a false moon god/Lucifer. My heart leaps at the thought at given the choice to accept the moon god, or be murdered.

          Just tell your fellow moon god worshipers to get out of the way as I unload my clips. The rounds travel at 26oofpc.

          I’ve had enough of your puke!



  146. Man of peace
    If I might interject here, regarding the Divine nature of Jesus. I will try to stick to new testament teachings, and more particularly the words of Jesus himself.

    1. John 1:1- “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God 2-He was in the beginning with God. 3- All things were made through him , and without him was not anything made that was made….14-And the word became flesh and dwelt among us…18-Noone has ever seen God:The only God who is at his fathers side, he has made him known.

    The Word created all things, And the Word became flesh in the form of Jesus. there is no other way to interpret this scripture.

    2.John 5:16-18 (note this occurs after Jesus healed the cripled man at the pool on the Sabbath day.) 16-And this was why the Jews were persecuting Jesus because he was doing these things on the sabbath. 17-But Jesus answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I am working.” 18-This was why the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because not only was he breaking the sabbath, but he was calling God his own Father making himself equal with God.

    3. Read also John 5:19-29 It describes the Authority of Jesus.

    4.John 7:16 “so Jesus answered them, “My teaching is not mine , but his who sent me.17-if anyones will is to do God’s will,he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority.”

    In other words, Jesus is equating his will with God’s will.

    5. John 8:23 “He said to them,” You are from below: Iam from above. You are of this world: Iam not of this world.” 24- “I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I Am he you will die in your sins.”

    Yahweh, or the name of God literally translates into “I AM”.

    There are literally hundreds of references where he claims I AM. He says I am the light of the world, the good sheperd etc. Culminating in the claim of his Godhood in John 8:58 “Jesus said to them,’Truly, truly, I say to you, Before Abraham was, (past tense) I AM.” (present tense) –

    After Jesus said this The jews tried to stone him. Why did this statement offend them so much?

    In conclusion, there are literally hundreds of statements in the Bible of the Godhood of Jesus, From the Torah, to Psalms, to Old Testament Prophets, to New Testament, to epistles, to Revalation.

    It is satan who is called the accuser of the saints, by calling someone stupid or a race of people pigs, you yourself are stooping to Satan’s level, But Jesus called us to love even our enemies.

    It is impossible to debate with someone, and to come to find Truth, When their only response is to demean the one they are debating.

    It is school yard debating (Name calling) That prevents you from discovering the real Truth. Not to mention all the propaganda which is presented to your people by your so called leaders. (they are merely schoolyard bullies in my opinion)

    I personally do not take anything for granted that the leaders of my faith say, but rather take the time to study the Bible and pray for the holy spirits guidance in discovering the “Way,Truth,and Life” Which Jesus said “I AM”.

    Does islam give you a Holy Spirit which allows you to Love and respect even your enemies, or a spirit that worships and reveres death, and killing of infidels by the sword.

    If you are truly a man of peace, this should strike a cord of hypocrisy in Islam and the culture surrounding it.

    • The Bible is corrupted book, written by corrupt Jews, who betrayed Jesus to the Romans who tried to kill Jesus, so that Allah saved him and raised him to heaven. Allah will make it back down to earth to kill Dajjal (the Antichrist). I have listed above several different versions of the Bible …

      I respected you when I got involved with you in discussion. But why should I respect someone who offends me. I explained to the God in whom we Muslims believe it is the same God who sent Adam, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and He sent Muhammad (as). and I kept saying that we believe in the moon god, how vijerujemo in a kind of bull. that Muhammad (as) cut off heads, who spoke against him. that nothing is true. I do not know what they had read the book in which it describes. in any Islamic books that is not written. something he could write only one who hates Islam, and who wants people to performances erroneous opinion about Islam. If at some mosques is a sign of the crescent moon, this does not mean that we worship the moon. it’s just decoration on the mosque. Cross is the place where (according to your belief) Jesus is crucified. I would now like I could tell that you love Jesus crucified, and because you wear crosses around their necks. in such a way that these are insulted me explain the faith ..

      Since you were nice to me addressed, you insulted me, and I will have respect for you …

      • man of peace
        I did not say anything in my post about moon god worship, i only tried to answer your question regarding the divinity of Jesus. I do not wear crosses around my neck or recite rosaries but rather the only thing i carry with me is the holy spirit which was received by grace through the blood of Jesus dying on the cross. But I also serve a risen saviour who died for all men including you. The gift is their for you waiting only for you to accept it.

        With regards to the Bible being a corrupted book, why would those people that knew Jesus be willing to die for what was written in that book. Not only his disciples, but also the early church. If I had any doubts of the truth of the Bible I would not be willing to rest my life on it , but through the holy spirit I know it is true, and therefore am willing to die for what is said in it.

        • Amen and AMEN! 🙂

        • I know you is not told. I cited an example of others. If Jesus was sacrificed for all people, then the Muslims in paradise. because we Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet. I have the entire chapter of the Quran about Jesus. but we do not believe that Jesus was the son of God, and not to believe he was killed.

          • dear man of peace

            I understand and accept your sincerity.

            There are historical documents by the Romans and Jews that Jesus died.

            Since these are the ones to blame for killing him, they should be the ones to deny this. But instead they admit Jesus was executed.

            The good news is that God raised him from the dead, and he went up to heaven.

            Why Jesus is the son of God can be an academic debate. I will be glad to explain it to you.

            This point of confusion is the fault of Christians, who have done a bad job of explaining this.

          • Dear manof peace
            Not all will go to heaven but only those who repent. Without repentence is no remission of sin.
            John 14:7 says “If you had known me, you would have known my father also.” Verse 9 continues this point “whoever has seen me has seen the father. how can you say,’show us the father?’ Do you not believe that I am in the father and the Father is in me?”
            If your faith has changed the identity of Jesus and does not believe in his divinity, then it has erred in its teaching to you and your people. I say this not in hatred for Muslims but with the sincere hope that they can turn from their errors. These are the words of Jesus himself. to deny them is to deny Jesus.
            There are also many so called Christians who deny these words and likewise for them they are in error. Pride is the sin which does not allow us to repent. It is hard to admit the error of our ways. this is why true salvation requires repentence.

            • we Muslims every day to repent for sins committed. We are aware that we do sin, and therefore we ask forgiveness of sins.

              Why do you think that Muhammad (a.s.) was not the Prophet? I have already said that all prophets come with proof that they were sent by God. as Jesus had miracles, and Muhammad (a.s.) had their miracles. Every Prophet had a miracle, that God gave them that people would more easily believe that God has sent them …

              • But Jesus was not merely a prophet. He was God incarnate (in human form).
                What did Muhammed prophecy that has become reality?

  147. A Man of Peace;

    You might want to read over this link:

    The Quran in Context

    By Bernie on 30 Apr 2010

    In my article Changing How Americans View Islam

    I pointed out that when a Muslim is asked about a passage in the Quran that condones the killing of infidels, Muslims insist that the translation is distorted or misrepresented or taken out of context.

    So, as usual, just in the past few days, Muslims (or Muslim apologists) have proven my case in their comments.

    Translation Distorted

    A commenter left the following in reply to my article Where Were Muslims When South Park Mocked Jesus:

    … the problems plaguing the Muslim community has to do with taking the literal interpretation of the Quran, Sunnah and Hadith. Arabic is a very metaphorical language. By the very definition of translation, it cannot be translated.

    If there is something in the Quran that sounds savage, barbaric, murderous – well – then it got lost in translation.

    But suppose an infidel actually understands Arabic and reads Sura 5:51 “O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people.”

    According to Muslim apologists, infidels misinterpret this passage. Before I tell you what Muslims pretend it means, read this: A commenter left this response to my article Muslims Want World to adopt Mecca time:

    at the moment forget about the Muslim religion. Think logically what Islam is by reading the QURAN. Ask questions to great Islamic scholars or international orators ( Dr. Zakir Naik (, )

    Come to neutral side and think with logic and cool mind to understand what Islam is actually. Islam is the most misinterpreted religion in the world.

    There you have it: “Islam is the most misinterpreted religion in the world.” So if an infidel actually reads Arabic, and thinks he has translated it properly, he has not. Infidels always misinterpret.

    How do Muslims say they interpret that passage? Here’s a rendition they offer to Christians and Jews:

    [5:51] O you who believe, do not take certain Jews and Christians as allies; these are allies of one another. Those among you who ally themselves with these belong with them. GOD does not guide the transgressors.

    See, we are told, the passage only refers to accepting allies during a time of war, when Muslims are attacking someone else.

    Don’t buy it. When Muslims talk to each other the story is different: here a Muslim asks Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid, a known Islamic lecturer and author:

    Islam Question and Answer, Can a Muslim be a sincere friend to a kaafir?

    Q: I have questions about Islam; can you explain them to me? Is it permissible for a Muslim to be a sincere friend to a person who is not Muslim?.

    A: Praise be to Allaah.

    It is not permissible for a Muslim to make friends with a mushrik [anyone who does not believe in the true God Allah] or to take him as a close friend, because Islam calls on us to forsake the kaafirs [non-Muslims] and to disavow them, because they worship someone other than Allaah. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

    “O you who believe! Take not as friends the people who incurred the Wrath of Allaah (i.e. the Jews). Surely, they have despaired of (receiving any good in) the Hereafter, just as the disbelievers have despaired of those (buried) in graves (that they will not be resurrected on the Day of Resurrection)”

    [al-Mumtahanah 60:13]

    This was also the teaching of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).

    1 – It was narrated from Abu Sa’eed al-Khudri (may Allaah be pleased with him) that he heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say, “Do not keep company with anyone but a believer and do not let anyone eat your food but one who is pious.” (Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 2395; Abu Dawood, 4832. Abu ‘Eesa al-Tirmidhi said: this hadeeth is hasan. It was also classed as hasan by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi, 2519).

    Seems pretty clear to me.

    In the end, as a last resort, no matter what you read in the Quran, even in Arabic, it doesn’t mean what it says because you have to read it in the context of the times it was written in. If even if the Quran instructs Muslims:

    “Slay the unbelievers wherever you find them.” Quran 2:191

    “Make war on the infidels living in your neighborhood.” Quran 9:123

    “When opportunity arises, kill the infidels wherever you catch them.” Quran 9:5

    “Any religion other than Islam is not acceptable.” Quran 3:85

    “The Jews and the Christians are perverts; fight them.” Quran 9:30

    “The infidels are unclean; do not let them into a mosque.” Quran 9:28

    “Punish the unbelievers with garments of fire, hooked iron rods, boiling water; melt their skin and bellies.” Quran 22:19

    “Do not hanker for peace with the infidels; behead them when you catch them.” Quran 47:4

    “The unbelievers are stupid; urge the Muslims to fight them.” Quran 8:65

    “Muslims must not take the infidels instead of Muslims as friends.” Quran 3:28

    “Terrorize and behead those who believe in scriptures other than the Qur’an.” Quran 8:12

    “Muslims must muster all weapons to terrorize the infidels.” Quran 8:60

    We are told that these all refer to a time when Mohammed was at war. We are told that except for a few hundred extremists, most Muslims and certainly most intelligent, American-born Muslims know the difference between the 7th century and modern times. However, this does not explain Zachary Adam Chesser who just two years ago was a normal human being but then converted to Islam and became a Muslim idiot who recently suggested that the creators of “South Park” be targeted for death.

    This does not explain the thousands of Muslim protesters in the US, the UK, in France, in the Netherlands, in Belgium, in Switzerland, and all over Africa who show up with banners demanding that Shariah law be instituted in their host country, that free speech be banned, that Islam will rule the world.

    The problem in the western world is not that there are too many non-Muslims who misinterpret or mistranslate the Quran or take it out of context, the problem is that too many Muslims correctly understand and interpret the Quran and put it into today’s context.

    If you know peaceful, kind, gentle Muslims, and the world is filled with them, it is because they are intelligent and ignore the Quran or they are ignorant and have not correctly parsed the meaning of what they have read. The only people who truly understand the Quran and are faithful to its precepts are Osama bin Laden and his associates.

    Sadly, we cannot tell when moderate Muslims will turn into Jihadists: recall that Nidal Malik Hasan – before contracting SIDS (Sudden Islamic Death Syndrome) – was an American-born moderate Muslim with no criminal history.

    • every society has its fools. the problem is that Christians are a fool to take the example and say this is Islam. how many pedophiles in Christian churches. how many homosexuals in the churches, and what I should now say, that the church-homosexual pedophile institutions ….

      if in some places in the Quran ordered the fight, it is referred to that time, and place. Christians understand the scriptures literally, they in general do not understand what it says. They interpret this the wrong way on your own, and even add their lies and claim that it is the truth.
      because I am shocked at the way they think. living in lies and illusion.

      Islam is a peaceful religion that has respect for all peoples. read the Qur’an and will convince you to … a story of violence and slaughter to only your lies.

      • dear man of peace

        Like everyone else that is born, we are taught that certain things are true. Most people accept what they are told, and believe theses things until they die.

        You, all muslims, and many Christians, Buddhists, and other religions do this – believe what they are told until they die.

        People need to question what they are taught.

        How, by asking men?

        Men lie or are deceived.

        They might be convinced, and sincere, but they can still be wrong.

        No, by asking God…….

        If you want to know who Jesus is……

        Do not just read a book written by a man, and taught by men.

        GO directly to God in prayer, and ask who is Jesus?

        Jesus will answer you, if you are sincere, and really want to know.

        I know who Jesus is because he appeared to me, and I saw the glory of God on him. He is more than just a prophet.

        The bible is not corrupt. It is true.

        It says

        …..ask, and you shall receive

        …, and you shall find

        …..knock, and it will be opened to you.

        If you really, really want to confirm who Jesus it, then it will be revealed to you.

        This revelation will come directly from God, and then you will know it is true, and….

        not just believe something because men teach something to you….

        • And the Bible was written by a man. I know that Jesus. We explained in the Qur’an. we Muslims have nothing against Jesus. I believe that he was and people called in the rescue.

          You talking to me to read the Bible. I read the Bible. I was clear in what piblija call. but I recommend that you read the Qur’an, and then ask me what interests you. You and your friends are telling me about Islam, about killing, killing, torture …. and that nowhere in Islam does not. telling tales. and how do I establish a dialogue with you when you are lying, saying that Allah is the god of the moon, that we worship a bull. It is nonsense and fabrication. and when I have I ceased my faith in God that we Muslims believe, you and your friends you went on and on with your story, accusing my belief that we are pagans. and why I am shocked with the way you think, and know how. with in my life I met plenty of people, many of the world I have visited, many times I have with Christians enter into conversation about faith. But such allegations, and this lies the first time I’ve seen here

          Muhammad (as) when he came, he came with a proof that God sent him. but you do not intentionally accept because you hate Islam. you hate the faith are attacked, not the one you attacked. And do you not told in the Bible that you should not hate ….

          • dear man of peace

            The bible was written by God himself, using holy prophets as his servants.

            I think you are mixing me up with others who make comments. I did not mention the moon. I do not hate Muslims. I only hate sin and lies.

            Notice, you quote the bible, yet you have been taught it is corrupt. Why? Because it is the truth.

            Give God a chance to reveal his truth to you.

            He is a God of love, not hate.

            He wishes that no one perishes, but comes to be with him in heaven.

            • And the Qur’an is from God. and there are evidences. thousands of evidence in the Qur’an that confirm that such a book could not write one. Gabriel was brought God’s word to Muhammad (a.s.), and then have those words written on paper.

              I said that the Romans and the Jews were corrupt.

              It is true that God loves, it is true that God is not like a mess. But God has commanded us Muslims to defend ourselves if someone attacks us. such an order came just when the polytheists of Makkah set out to kill Muslims in Medina. Do Muslims have a right to defend themselves? Do Muslims need to let someone kill them?

              Muslims were not ordered to self-defense, Muslims today would not exist.

              Good saying “He is a God of love, not hate.” ingredients are then sent their children to Iraq and Afghanistan to kill. and we all know that George Bush sent American people in Iraq that they would plunder Iraqi oil. What about Guantanamo? to the concentration camp where you do not respect human rights. Where is democracy? and in it there are only Muslims. Is not that a war against Islam? Is this something God had commanded?

              if he is a God of love, not hate. Then you have to prove in deeds, not just talk ….

              • Man of peace
                You cannot make the mistake of equating Christianity with America. America is not 100% Christian country. because George Bush or Obama have sent troops to muslim countries does not mean they were sent by Christians. If your brothers in the muslim faith had not attacked the world trade centers, America and its soldiers probably would not be there. Unlike your countries which have dictatorial rulers leading them to war, our country requires a concensus among the people to go to war. the attack on the world trade centers created that concensus which gave George Bush the permission to go to war. Thus your Muslim Brothers are as much to blame for the wars in afghanistan and Iraq as George Bush or Obama are. As long as our nation sees a threat posed by radical muslims, that concensus will remain.
                Christians that I know, and I myself want nothing more than peace. My concern is that you have been deceived by those who tell you what to think, and that your people do not even know how to stand up to them. I want nothing more than for you and your people to hear the truth about Jesus so that you can freely decide to follow or not follow the only “way” that leads to the one true God. If you then choose not to accept it, God will be your Judge as He is mine. It is forbidden for Christians to Judge and carry out punishment. If your people would condemn those that propose death to the infidels, and promote the love of Jesus rather than hatred our troops would probably be long gone.
                I only pray that your people will hear the Good news of Jesus before it is too late. I know even you are seeing the events which are coming are those prophesied in the Bible, and time is running out.

                The question you should be asking yourself is: Should I serve a risen savior or a dead Prophet?

  148. I’m probably going to get slammmed again but I can’t believe Lyndsey is laughing at Leatherneck’s post. Both of you are former Veterans. Is that what you learn in the United States Military? You are not going to win anyone to Christ by laughing at someone who wants to kill other people. Do you realize Marianne get 7,000 hits max a day on this blog.

    Be academic like Marianne has told me to be.

    Leatherneck you didn’t read a word I said on:

    Marianne told me to use scripture and love.

    I guess with the Catholics it’s not okay to bad mouth them, but with the Muslims it’s another story.

    I’m probably going to get a big lecture on this one like I have a million times.

    Ream me. Go ahead I can take. You’re always High 5 ing each other. Don’t think I haven’t noticed it, because I’m not a part of it and I don’t want to be.

    • Are you forgetting that G-d ordered and helped David kill the palestinians?

      That was very funny what leatherneck wrote…what was really funny was his telling them how many rounds his gun has LOL 2600rpi?? something like that.

      I have no problem helping leatherneck load his gun OR his slingshot! 🙂

      • and this was the comment that was hilarious 🙂

        Islam is a death cult following a mad man. Muhammad, I bet, burns in hell. I will never pray to a false moon god/Lucifer. My heart leaps at the thought at given the choice to accept the moon god, or be murdered.

        Just tell your fellow moon god worshipers to get out of the way as I unload my clips. The rounds travel at 26oofpc.

        I’ve had enough of your puke!


        Leatheneck said this on February 28, 2011 at 4:25 am | Reply

        • sorry, it was the philistines….1 Samuel 17…45Then said David to the Philistine, Thou comest to me with a sword, and with a spear, and with a shield: but I come to thee in the name of the LORD of hosts, the God of the armies of Israel, whom thou hast defied.
          46 This day will the LORD deliver thee into mine hand; and I will smite thee, and take thine head from thee; and I will give the carcasses of the host of the Philistines this day unto the fowls of the air, and to the wild beasts of the earth; that all the earth may know that there is a God in Israel.
          47 And all this assembly shall know that the LORD saveth not with sword and spear: for the battle is the LORD’s, and he will give you into our hands.

          David then cut off the head of Goliath and the rest of G-d’s army defeated the rest of the philistines!

          What do you think the G-d of Israel is going to do to the wicked when he administers his wrath Kitti?

        • at least leatherneck is telling them to get out of the way…lol

    • kitti

      There is a difference you do not see.

      Devout Catholics who come to the site love Jesus, and consider themselves as fellow believers. Whatever their quirks are, and errors are, they are at least polite about it.

      Leatherneck responds to antagonistic muslims who come to wage a verbal jihad on a Christian website. They shoot, so he shoots back.

  149. It was this post:

  150. Hi
    wanted to say you translated DAJJAL as…CHRISTIANS which is wrong..Dajjal means the ANTICHRIST, NOT CHRISTIANS! and there is no favourite in the eyes of Allah on the basis of cast or creed, race or color, language or culture,except on the basis of piety! so we come to know that “no one is an apple of God’s eyes”, no one is saved because of Jesus, but on the basis of their own deeds which is very lgical!
    We all HUMANS have been addressed in the Quran, because this is the last message for whole of humanity! the ” Latest Edition” in the series of “Guide BOOKS”
    and it has been clearly Promised, that the one who believes in oneness of God, belives in All his Prophets (as respected messengers only not son of God etc) and also believes in the LAst Prophet Mohammad (Peace be upon him), believes in the day of judgement and does good deeds and abstains from evil will be rewarded in here after.
    Also, From the Holy Quran,we come to know that the jews were given many bounties but they detracted from the right path. In THOSE times, they were ordered to take over and create a kingdom in Those times, which they didnt! nowadays the jews are trying to please the Lord by creating the land that they were orderd to do centuries ago, when the deadline is over! Assignment is past OVERDUE! Latest edition of the book has arrived already …..little do they understand that there is NO CREDIT for an assignment or a test in which one has already been given an “F-“, the Torah also refers to the Prophethood of MOhammad (PBUH) and to follow him, but again they are detracking! MAy Allah guide us all to the right path. Ameen

    • Jews are expected to come back to Israel at the end of the days according to Quran.

    • dear am

      I know you sincerely believe all that but:

      1. Allah is not Yahweh, so the Quran is not a continuation of the bible. Allah contradicts the commands and teachings of Yahweh, and since God never contradicts himself, because he is never wrong, Allah is not the Yahweh of the bible.

      2. Jesus is the (spirit) son of God, which is a relationship between the Father God and him. No wife was involved, because God does not need one to create. Just because this concept is not understood to you does not mean it is wrong.

      3. Muhammed may be a prophet of Allah, but he is not a prophet of Yahweh. His tradition started in the 500s Ad, and he has no connection to the line of JEWISH prophets.

      4. The bible does not predict any gentile prophet to be the last prophet. Jesus was the one promised to Moses. The one promised was to come from the brethren of Moses, who were all the nation of Israel. Ishamel was not in the picture. He was not an Israelite. His descendants had their own life somewhere else.

      5. Doing good deeds does not save you from hell. Repentance and accepting Jesus as your savior and messiah, and turning away from false gods does. Neither Allah or Muhammad will get you into heaven. Until you accept who Jesus really is, believe what he taught and believe who he said he was, and obey him, Yahweh God the Father will not admit you into heaven.

      You have to understand that the relationship with Jesus has to be personal for you to be admitted into heaven. You cannot just know who he is, or who you think he is. You have to have a personal encounter with him. Jesus will only intercede with the Father on behalf of those he recognizes as his own.

      Example, in America, not just anyone can go into the white house and see the President. You have to know someone to get in. Just because you know who the President is, does not mean you are admitted. The President has to know you personally, or you have to have someone in the white house tell the President that you are ok. In comparison, you say you know who Allah is, and who Jesus is. But you ave met neither of them. Why would they admit you? Would each one say they know you? Especially Jesus, why would he say he knows you?

      6. The Jews, like everyone else on earth, have sinned at times. They were removed from the land as a punishment, but God also promised to return them when their heart was ready. This was done in 1948, after they suffered the holocaust for their faith. They are there to stay, and are supposed to be there. THE Messiah Jesus will not return if they are not there. That is a requirement for his return.

    • am,

      Have you read the Torah? If you do, you will see that no where is mohammad mentioned. If he is mentioned at all in the scriptures it would be under the name of FALSE CHRIST/FALSE god/ANTI CHRIST.

      When you say that all someone has to do to be rewarded in the after life are good deeds, please explain how blowing yourself up along with others is considered “a good deed”.

      Please explain how HATING your fellow man are good deeds.

      You have been taught a lie; you are choosing to believe a lie; you are choosing to take the word of a man that raped children!

      The true G-d, the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob created you and created within you the intelligence needed to figure out for yourself what is or isn’t the truth.

      Take a look at the carbon dating of the dead sea scrolls/Torah/Holy Bible and compare that to the carbon dating of the Quaran.

      You will find that the dead sea scrolls predate the Quaron by over 2000 years!!! The book of Isaiah alone is over 3400 years old! The quaran has been carbon dated to be only 1400 years old! Do the math….

      Mohammad borrowed from the scriptures and twisted what was written so as to form the quaran. Mohammad thought that Jesus’ mother, Mary was the sister of Moses!! This is obviously not true being that Moses lived about 3000 years BEFORE Mary!

      Regarding Jesus/Yeshua, Jesus did die upon the cross. He was buried and rose again 3 days later. This is also documented by many of the romans. After he rose again on the 3rd day, many witnessed Jesus’ interaction with them for 40 days before he ascended into the heavens.

      Why did Jesus die on the cross? Jesus, being the Son of G-d, gave his life and SHED HIS BLOOD to cover our sins! It is ONLY by Jesus’ blood that we are able to be saved and have ETERNAL LIFE.

      Mohammad took this information and twisted it so as to convince others that they could only inherit eternal life by the SHEDDING of THEIR OWN BLOOD. This is simply NOT TRUE. If you read and understand the Jewish Feasts then you will understand the purpose of Jesus’ sacrifice and why He is referred to as the Lamb of G-d.

      In Jewish tradition, on the jewish feast of Passover, it is an unblemished lamb that had to be sacrificed so as to cover the sins of the people. On the day of Passover, while the Jews were getting ready to celebrate Passover, Jesus took the place of the unblemished lamb!! The Jews didn’t even realize this as it was happening!

      Jesus/Yeshua is unblemished/without flaw/without sin BECAUSE HE IS THE SON OF THE ONE AND ONLY G-D-the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob!

      You need to do your research Am and find out for yourself what is and is NOTthe truth. Many muslims have done this and one thing they have in common when searching out the truth is that they call upon the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob! When they call upon Allah, NO ONE ANSWERS!!!!!

      Many muslims have stated that they have literally met Jesus/Yeshua when they do this. If you truly want to know the truth, then don’t just take my word for it AND don’t take the word of Mohammad…..take G-d’s word for it!! Ask Him directly;

      G-d says “Matthew 7:7 “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you.

      Luke 11:10 For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.

      …john 3:16 “”For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whosoever believes in him (Jesus/Yeshua) shall NOT perish but have ETERNAL LIFE.”

      Romans 10:8….The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13For WHOSOEVER shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

    • Am
      Our deeds have nothing to do with our salvation. Ephesians 2:8-10 says “For by grace you have been saved through faith. and this is not of your own doing (works); it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are HIS workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.”
      In other words, all the best efforts of man are unworthy of salvation, but through faith, and by God’s grace, and cleansing power of the BLOOD of Jesus, We are granted salvation. Only then do we become “his workmanship”, and our works are counted towards righteousness.
      If I am correct, your only response to this will be that the bible has been corrupted by the jews. What then happens if this has not been corrupted? Perhaps the bible was corrupted by Mohammad. There are still manuscripts in existence from before the appearence of mohammad that show these words exactly as written here.
      I continually point out the words from the bible, and words of Jesus himself pointing to his divinity, and the best arguement your people have is to attack the bible, THE WORD OF GOD. Sounds to me like your faith is baseless.

  151. Hello,
    1.You said God never contradicts himself….I TOTALLY AGREE! Allah says that exactly in the Quran! It is the people who changed the previous word of God and that has led to the so called contradictions, which are neumerous in the Bible, why???? because when the Theologians were compiling the Bible almost 600 yrs after Jesus,they made changes to it as they pleased, it is at that time the concept of Trinity and Jesus son of God was introduced so God sent another message to humanity in which he addressed all PEOPLE OF THE BOOK! that includes Jews and Christaians! to bring them all to the right path again so that we are not misled by them! Also Quran was compiled in the life of Prophet Mohammad(PBUH) that is Y it is Universal single Edition!
    Unlike the bible which has many editions! Y because people know the discrepancies in it and they are trying to remove the man made errors in it. yourself answered your question regarding the prediction in The Torah for the next Prophet. You say” The one promised was to come from the brethren of Moses,”… He did come from the bretheren….a distant cousin! It was never promised that the prophet woul be JEWISH… that is what people assumed and continue to do so , but God never promised that EXACTLY FROM JEWish ancestry! it was the pride in them that led them to deny Prophet Mohammad’s(PBUH) prophethood! since they were expecting the Last prophet amongst them! The righteous amongst them who truly belived in God’s commands had gone and settled in the region of Medina to wait for the Last Prophet!!! and when Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) was given Prophethood, they were among the 1st people to accept! We always know Pride hath a fall! we should leave pride and accept the truth!
    3. Lastly you say that all are forgiven because Jesus died for your sins? Then why do people want to punish the sinners in this world?? If for example, some one steals, kills or does any other bad thing to you or a loved one( God forbid), wouldnt you want them to be punished , or would you accept happily that the killer, stealer etc is enjoying tea next to you in heaven because He/She too belived in Jesus as saviour and has been saved…where does the concept of Justice go then? where does morality go then? if whatever we do, no matter how awful the thing might be, that means we wont be punished at all? If all people belive what you are saying then that means we can do whatever we want?? hurt people’s feelings ??? or worse hurt them physically??? and still all will be joined in Heaven???
    4. Then you say that you need a connection to contact God? Fortunately we do not! Definitely i can not meet the President without him knowing me etc but with God, who is the knower of evrything in the world, who knows what my thoghts are , who knows what I like or dislike since He has created me, has given me and all human beings an advantage!!! WE CAN APPROACH HIM DIRECTLY and Y we know this is so??? because He chose to send this message to us through messengers amongst us… that we do not find an excuse that we can not do what the Prophets could. THey set an example for us to follow

    I request everyone especially lindsey and dru to not be Emotional at this discussion, not to be taunting or mocking eachother. We are all educated sensible Human beings and discuss the matter with patience, a healthy discussion of what each of us belive in! Respect eachothers right to choose and practice Free will ! LEarn from Mariaane, She is appreciable for being tolerant and patient in the discussion!
    @ lindsey: go to the original Hebrew version of Torah, it is clearly mentioned in it….not the translation done by human beings…. like I explained in my previos comment, Dajjal which the author translated as Christians is totally a wrong concept!!! It may have been done willfull to mislead, start a quarrel or it may be because the author does not understand Arabic! whaatevr may be the reason… ALL PLEASE KNOW THAT DAJJAL MEANS THE ANTICHRIST….NOT CHRISTIANS
    and dru: I can say the same thing about your faith being baseless…somehow I am not compelled to because for you is your religion and for me is mine!only time will tell who is right and who misled who…I may be wrong but I feel the underlynig feeling I guess in all people here might be the same… we do not want our fellow human beings to suffer in the hereafter! At least that is how I feel!

  152. lindsey
    I dont have words for your knowledgge of what are good and bad deeds! If you consider blowing oneself up along with others as a good deed, so help you God!
    It is clearly mentioned in the Quran that killing of a single human being is like killing the whole humanity and saving the life of a single humanbeing is like saving the whole of humanity! not only muslims …any HUMAN BEING! I assume you know what Human race includes… but I sshall explain because of obvious reason…the human race includes christians, hindus, muslims, jews,sikh, atheist…hence any and all human beings!
    Secondly, i did not say just good deeds are enough! Ill explain what i said previously, one must have faith in oneness of Allah,all His messengers,consider Prophet Mohammad(pbuh) as the last Prophet of Allah, Allah’s revelations, his angels, believe in the day of judgement, life after death,…(and faith means not just beliving in him by saying it but by actions as well…what actions? do good deeds, which are truthfulness, helping, caring for other human beings,respecting all older people, listening to parents, affectionate to the young, giving alms to the poor, not hurting any human beings feelings,or physically!..these are just a few…I hope you get what good deeds are
    whosoever goes against Allah’s orders shall be punished in the hereafter,evenif he has faith in one God and His prophets and the last prophet! Killing innocent human beings in NO WAY is a good deed rather it is a punishable crime!!! here and hereafter!…so just faith is not enough….one has to earn the reward by avoiding doing bad stuff and doing good deeds!
    if some people r doing this awful deed of killing others they’d be punnished definitely! It is all media’s propaganda to defame a particular religion on the basis of a few black sheep…examples of the same we have seen in history as well….THE CRUSADES!or the haulocast as you say it should jog your memory. That was never done by MUSLIMS!
    Similar to the qoutes you gave,Quran also says:” Guidance is only for those who seek it,(ask it from Allah)!” since the series of revelations is from One Source..One God …Allah… the message is the same in all! the twisting of messages was done in previous revelations by the writers of that time for their personal gains… because of this Allah took it upon Himself to preserve the message in Quran! That is the only reason we still have it preserved in the same way as it was revealed!
    and also God of Jacob, abraham, moses, Jesus and Mohammad (peace be upon them all) is the same ONE ALLAH! If you choose to deny it, it is totally upto you!

    HAve you ever wondered why evrytime you see someone degrading the religious belief of another human being are people belonging to every faith, christians, jews etc but NOT A MUSLIM? This is because
    1. we respect, love and have faith in all the Prophets and the revelations given to them! by tradition we know that there have been 124000 messengers sent to humanity for guidance!of this series Mohammad(pbuh) was the last one…but althogh we are supposed to believe that they all were Allah’s revelations, we are only supposed to act on the last one!
    2. We are told in the Quran not to dishonor, insult or degrade the religious beliefs of fellow human beings,so that not to hurt there feelings and secondly not to provoke violence!
    3. tolerance is the message given to us and we observe it that is why you will not find Muslims degrading your belief or your prophet or your Holy book,!
    you refer to the carbon dating of the holy books, can you please explain that a book that was compiled 600 yrs after Jesus,even after the death of all his immediate companions at that time, how can it be in its rightful form??? The Quran was compiled,as it was revealed during the life time of the Prophet (PBUH) and his sunnah(sayings and traditions of Prophet Mohammad (PBUH)) were compiled by his immediate companions during their lifetime after extensive resarch!
    MAy Allah guide us all! Ameen

    • dear am

      Let us look at your issues

      1. there are no contradictions or corruptions in the bible. It is the same as thousands of years ago. If you give me what you think is an example, I can explain it to you. While translations are there to make the content more clear to different people, of different languages, the CONTENT has NEVER changed. Each verse has the same message.

      2. There are interpretations of the bible, including yours, and then there is the truth of what the bible says. Many times people do not interpret the bible correctly, or misquote it, and this leads to error.

      3. there is no proof that Muhammed was a prophet. He never prophesied anything that came true. That is the definition of a true prophet. You have to test the “prophet” before you start to believe what he says. Islam accepts Muhammed as a prophet without a single prophecy that came true. Where the Quran quotes the bible, or cites common knowledge does not credit him, since the information was already there, and not unique to him.

      4. You and I are related also, if we go back to Noah and the flood. You are then my distant cousin. But that does not mean that something God told me about my life has anything to do with you. God repeated this promise to Abraham, Moses, Isaac and Jacob, indicating which lineage He had chosen.

      THe entire bible is about the Jewish people (Old Testament), and their Messiah (New Testament). None of it is about the Arabs (Ishmael and descendants), except where it describes them as enemies about 99% of the time. About the only exceptions are Cyrus and Xerxes of Persia, who were not Arabs, but Persians.

      5. Jesus as the son of God, and who God is is covered on different pages on this site, so I will not repeat that. I can direct you to those pages. Why Jesus is called that is explained, but it is not the same idea you have gotten.

      6. Jesus died for our sins….BUT……we have to accept what he did for us, be sorry for wrongdoing and STOP sinning to be saved. We cannot continue in sin and not change. So the sinners of this world are still sinners, and they are not saved by Jesus. This means they will go to hell when they die, unless they repent, and turn from their sins. Murderers who do not repent are NOT forgiven. No one is forgiven unless they be sorry, repent, and stop their wicked ways. So murderers who say they are saved are liars and hell is waiting for them. God will still punish the wicked because they are not saved by the death of Jesus.

      7. The bible says we need a personal relationship with God to go to heaven. This is only available through Jesus, who is our intercessor with the Father in heaven. Jesus is the “door” to the Father. Unless you go through him, the Father is not going to listen to you or recognize you as his. Jesus did a heroic thing, and God wants us to respect him for that.

      The Quran teaches that all you have to do is believe Allah and recognize his messenger as Muhammad, and you will go to heaven. this is not true. Your sins have to be paid for. You cannot go in sin before a holy God. God cannot look upon sin and accept it. You will be rejected.

      So far, you present arguments but no proof. I understand this is something you are passionate about, but unless you stop listening to what man tells you and listen to God, you will not find the truth.

      Man, imams, priests, nuns, pastors……..none of them can get us to heaven…..they are just people. Good deeds alone cannot do this either. Sin has to be paid for… and have you paid for your sins? If not, you will be punished.

      I encourage you to go directly to God in private and start asking him to reveal to you who He is, and who Jesus is….

      I pray God helps you with a personal relationship with Him.

    • dear am

      hitler used muslims in the holocaust

      Muslims helped in killing 6 million Jews.

    • Am,

      A “few” bad sheep?!? Muslims, are killing Christians and Jews worldwide because we follow the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob!! MUSLIMS are beheading and blowing up HUMAN BEINGS “in the name of allah”. How do you explain your association with this religion that disgracefully commits the above abomoniations? How can you possibly defend this religion, Am? By saying a “few” black sheep is clearly an understatement.

      Entire wars have been and are presently being waged all because of this lunatic you call “allah”. Allah is NOT a god by any form of the imagination.

      Your mohammad raped children Am!!!! He took what was already written in the scriptures/dead sea scrolls/Holy Bible and TWISTED what was written to create a religion that breeds evil.

      The dead sea scrolls (known as the ancient scrolls of Qumran) were preserved Am and were meticulously translated. The most accurate translation of these scriptures found among the caves of Qumran are found in the King James Version. Other versions were created to help the reader better understand what is written.

      The book of Isaiah, which reads in detail of the coming of the Messiah, is at least 3400 years old!!

      Do your research Am-your involved in a religion that not only lies to us and kills us, but does the same to its followers as well and that includes you!

      Allah has many meanings to his name and “destroyer” is one of them…..

    • Dear Am
      As I predicted, your response to the above post was to accuse the Bible of being corrupted by man. (Does that make me a prophet?)
      You accuse me of an emotional response, but I chose to defend my faith with theology rather than accusations.
      I BASE my faith on the Jesus Christ, who:
      1. Was God Incarnate. (in human form)
      2. Was Born of the virgin Mary. (as predicted by the old testament)
      3. Was Tempted by Satan in the wilderness with a worldly kingdom, but did not succumb to his temptations.
      4. Lived a sinless life
      5. Was Rejected by his chosen people, and led to death by them.
      6. Died on the cross for all humans, the most humiliating way to die, as a common criminal, though he knew no sin (undeservedly).
      7. Because he had no sin he was worthy to be the final blood sacrifice for all our sin, saying “it is finished” as he hung there.
      8. Died for us even though we were the ones deserving of this punishment.
      9. Rose again the third day after suffering for our sins through separation from his Father (“Abba, Abba why hast thou forsaken me”)
      10. Offers forgiveness to all as a free gift.

      Now I ask you these questions.
      1. Did Mohammad love even his enemies enough to die for them, or did he attack his enemies with the sword?
      2. Did Mohammad reject Satan’s temptation of authority over earthly kingdoms, or did he create his own earthly kingdom?
      3. Did Mohammad humble himself so as to die as a common criminal on behalf of a sinful world, or did he exalt himself above those around him?
      4. Was Mohammad led to death by his chosen people, or was he praised by his servants.
      5. Did Mohammad live a sinless life or did he break the law of Moses?

      I choose to be a Christian and to believe in the Jesus of the Bible, and not the jesus of the Quran because the Jesus of the Bible is the best example of true Godly love and real humility. And because his kingdom is not of this world, will not pass away and is everlasting. It is because the Bible version of Jesus reveals the very character of God in such a hard to believe way, that I choose to believe it, for “narrow is the way to salvation”. I also would rather lay up my treasures in heaven than in this world for this world is doomed to pass away.
      As for the question of punishment which you brought up, We are forgiven of our sins by the grace and mercy of God, but do not escape the consequences of our actions here on this earth. In fact we Christians are being sanctified by the grace of God here on this earth so that we will be moral not because the law directs us to do so, But rather that the law dwells in us. In other words, God, through his gracious work in us allows us to obey the Law not because we are forced to but because our hearts have been transformed and our will is to obey them. This is by definition true morality or ethical behavior, when we will to do good, rather than being forced to do good.
      This is also the big difference between Sharia Law and God’s Law. God’s law is fulfilled through the sacrifice of Jesus, allowing us to obey the Law from the inside out with the pure motive of loving God not because we are forced to obey from the outside by worldly authorities as is the case with Sharia. (Fear of punishment (such as stoning or beheading) vs love and reverence for God).

  153. i’m a jew and i used to hate both islam and christianity but once i converted into islam i discovered god and i understood the real nature of islam and the miraclous life stories of mohammad,jesus christ and many others….people like marianne or george w bush or other atheists who call themselves christians will be punished for killing innocent children in iraq and approve gay or travestite marriages in church..

    • Isaac
      Were you converted to islam by choice or by fear of death?

      • for those who believe in God the almighty there is no fear of death but salvation…to God/Allah we shall return and for that we have to fight gays,travestites and evangelicals(worshippers of mammon and church of satan)..ours is God’s cause yours is fag non-believer cause..thats why your leader George W Bush was depressed once he realized that islam is the true religion and he killed those iraqi kids for nothing..even the president of USA is muslim now,why fight the inevitable? i invite all of you to islam…cast off your old beliefs(atheism,satanism,evangelicalism etc..) and you’ll be saved!

        • dear Isaac

          The USA did not kill Iraqi kids. Muslim terrorists did.

          Islam cannot get you to heaven.

          Only Jesus saves …

        • isaac
          I too do not fear death, in fact I await it with open arms, because I know through the holy spirit that the God of the bible is true, and the Jesus of the Bible came to redeem his people through his death on the cross. Does Mohammad offer you a holy spirit which helps you to discern the truth, or do you believe in him because some man told you to (or forced you to) believe in him? Or does he give you the spirit of death which leads you to kill innocent people in the name of Allah much like your brothers did here in the U.S.?
          Have you ever asked yourself the question: Why is it that 90% of the wars in the world are being fought in muslim countries? It is satan who loves to see children die, and Muslims through warfare, Heavy handed governance, and famine have killed more children in the world than any other religion. If you do not believe me then look up the statistics yourself.
          Just like many muslims, you equate ammerica with christianity. America is NOT a christian country. We have separation of church and state for a reason, so that some maniacal theocrat cannot come to power and order his followers to blow themselves up and killing innocents. Your countries would do well to follow this model of separating church and state, however, this is contrary to what Mohammad dictates, by way of Sharia law, and the theocracy your religion dictates.
          If you truly want to discover the truth about Jesus you will find it here. If you are here to change the minds of Christians and convert them to your faith, then you might as well give up now. I think I speak for most of the christians here, when I say, that once holy spirit has entered your life, there is no denying his power and his ability to discern what is truth, for that spirit is the spirit of God himself. And because of what Jesus did on the cross, being the perfect sacrifice for our sinfullness, I owe the Jesus of the Bible my life and devotion.
          You see Isaac, We Christians do not fear death, in fact we have the assurance of our salvation given through the Holy Spirit, But we also do not go looking for ways to kill ourselves, for this violates the law of Moses, (God’s Commandments). You see, you Muslims are willing to die for a reward, but we Christians would die to save others, because Jesus called us to love even our enemies, for they are the ones that need the salvation of Jesus’ blood when he died on the cross.

        • Allah is not G-d the Father. Allah means the god. One of 360 false gods at the kabba when Muhammad grew up. Allah Akbar means the god is greatest. The god is greatest of what? The god is greatest of all other gods at the kabba.

          Allah is a purely Arabic word. The god has been proven to be the god Sin, or the moon god. Good luck worshiping a false god, and following a murderer and rapist.

    • Isaac,

      Why did you leave the G-d of Abraham, ISAAC and Jacob!

      The god of Islam is lucifer himself! Their “messiah” is NOT Jesus Christ the Messiah!

      G-d LOVES YOU and you are called “His people…the apple of His eye”…by leaving your ROOTS-YOUR G-D-You have removed His protection from you and your family.

      Mohammad does NOT have any “miraculous” life stories-he raped children! He was a murderer and a liar and continues to deceive many muslims even today.

      Look up the many meanings of the name allah-one of the meanings is “deceiver”.

      Do more research Isaac and learn the Truth. The truth is in the Torah/Holy Bible, NOT the quaran.

      And as for your comment of “people like marianne or george w bush or other atheists who call themselves christians will be punished for killing innocent children in iraq and approve gay or travestite marriages in church…”

      Christians are NOT atheists. We worship the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

      Our military presence in Iraq is to HELP SAVE LIVES.

      It is NOT our military that is blowing themselves up in crowds of people that have children in them; it is NOT our military placing bombs on innocent children. This is the work of MOHAMMED’s followers. This is Islam-these are terrorists.

      And NO, genuine Christians do NOT approve of gay or travestite marriages in church. The key word here is “genuine”. True Christians follow and obey G-d’s command. G-d stated that homosexuality is an abomination-we stand by this and do not approve it! We are just as bothered by this as you are.

      Again, please go back to your G-d so that He can protect you from what is to come and very soon.

      Only the G-d of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is able to protect you-do NOT be deceived by this false messiah that Islam and even Jews are claiming will arrive.

      The TRUE Messiah-Jesus Christ-will be returning through the eastern gate and ONLY HE is able to open it! Remember that….


      Romans 10:13″Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

  154. @dru:
    ok lets take it point by point.. U said.
    1.Jesus Was God Incarnate. …(in human form)… I disagree, God does not have to come in human form to know what humans are going through!! The Definition of God is explained in chapter 112 of Al Quran.
    In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

    Say: He is Allah, the One and Only!
    Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
    He begetteth not nor is He begotten.
    And there is none like unto Him.

    U give me theology…i urge you to come to logic and common sense….If a person invents a new technology….lets say e.g. a radio or a sterio,etc….he would already know how it works coz he put it together, he does not have to become a radio to figure out the problems of the radio…. to guide us about its use, the manufacturer provides us a manual… similarly the Creator of Universe the one and Only God , capable of evrything can give a miracle ….the birth of a child from the Virgin Mary!

    As explained in Surah Baqarah in Al Quran:
    “In the Name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful

    Allah! There is no deity except He, the Ever Living, the One Who sustains and protects all that exists. Neither slumber, nor sleep overtake Him. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on earth. Who is he that can intercede with Him except with His Permission? He knows what happens to them (His creatures) in this world, and what will happen to them in the Hereafter . And they will never compass anything of His Knowledge except that which He wills. His throne extends over the heavens and the earth, and He feels no fatigue in guarding and preserving them. And He is the Most High, the Most Great.”

    [This Verse 2:255 is called Ayat-ul-Kursî.]—

    we human beings have a very limited knowledge that is given to us. there r things beyond our comprehension, so things we do not understand , we either try to explain on the basis of what we have seen/know or choose to deny that it simply can not be…but look around you….70% of the earth is water..n recently we have seen once again the catastrophe in Japan, normally we r kept safe on this earth….how??? ans is God Almighty who saves us, evry day is a miracle but we choose to ignore!
    IN QURAN THERE are several miracles mentioned that Id like to share with you, with the current hate that people have for Islam, I dont think Most people will have the chance to read the Quran for themselves:
    in Quran even the WATER CYCLE has been explained at various places 1400 yrs ago one example is Surah baqarah (2:164)
    “Most surely in the creation of the heavens and the earth and the alternation of the night and the day, and the ships that run in the sea with that which profits men, and the water that Allah sends down from the cloud, then gives life with it to the earth after its death and spreads in it all (kinds of) animals, and the changing of the winds and the clouds made subservient between the heaven and the earth, there are signs for people who understand.”

    Another miracle of the Quran i’ll share with you. it is fairly recent evidence that we came to know that the earth , moon are revolving, n that we upheld the view for so long that the sun is stationary . We now came to know that the Sun with the whole milky way is also headed towards a direction unknown, and God has mentioned it in the Quran again 1400 yrs ago!!!
    Surah YAsin:
    37. And a sign for them is the night, We withdraw therefrom the day, and behold, they are in darkness.

    38. And the sun runs on its fixed course for a term (appointed). That is the Decree of the All-Mighty, the All-Knowing.

    39. And the moon, We have measured for it mansions (to traverse) till it returns like the old dried curved date stalk.

    40. It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor does the night outstrip the day. They all float, each in an orbit.”

    Please tell me how can a person who could not read or write, prophet Mohammad(PBUH), create this FACT 1400 yrs ago, the information which we just discovered in the 20th century????

    Another miracle is the developing fetus in the mothers womb!! the embryology has been explained in Quran in surah alaq

    1.Read! In the Name of your Lord, Who has created (all that exists),

    2. Has created man from a clot (a piece of thick coagulated blood).

    3. Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous,

    4. Who has taught (the writing) by the pen [the first person to write was Prophet Idrees (Enoch)]

    5. Has taught man that which he knew not.
    in the second verse of this surah, it is mentioned , created man from a clot, biological sciences now tell us that!
    Also i would like to mention as someone explained previously ,that it is difficult to translate arabic( coz of metaphorical nature and diverse vocabulary )that the arabic word here is ALAQ which has been translated as CLOT for ease…. Infact It means thick coagulum, as well as leech like …n the scientists tell us that when conception occurs the zygote is not only shaped like a leech but also takes nutrition from the mother;s womb much like a leech!
    these and many others are signs for those who Understand, not evry one is blessed with it!

    Coming back to ur points .. u say
    2. Jesus Was Born of the virgin Mary. (as predicted by the old testament)..I agree the Quraan says that too.
    3. Was Tempted by Satan in the wilderness with a worldly kingdom, but did not succumb to his temptations….I agree all Prophets have been saved from Satans temptations!
    4. Lived a sinless life….I agree again ! becoz it is Allah’s blessing on them!
    5. Was Rejected by his chosen people, ….I agree, many messengers had to go through this phase unfortunately, due to the stubborn human nature! Many were led to death by the people….. but not Jesus!
    6.U say Died on the cross for all humans, the most humiliating way to die, as a common criminal, though he knew no sin (undeservedly)…… I disagree because Allah tells that in the Quran, Jesus is alive , he was nevr crucified! Just think about it when God protects His messengers from sin, why would he let one die for others sins!!! I think the Sole reason God chose not to have the Last prophet from amongst the jewish ancestry was because they had killed soooo many messengers! They even tried to kill Jesus , but Quran tells us He was saved by Allah! and they were led to believe that they killed Jesus!
    10. Offers forgiveness to all as a free gift…. Nothing in life is free …u have to earn it especally forgiveness from God!!!

    To answer your Questions about Mohammad (PBUH)
    1.He loved all his ummah…ummah is the human race till the end of time,althogh nowadays the word UMMAH is used for muslims, but that is not the case. He prevnted them from destruction of God’s wrath! even when Angel gabriel came to him to ask for permission for destroying the people of TAIF who injured him with stones when he presented the message to them, uptill the point evrn his shoes were full of blood!, He said NO… there might be people among their future generations who believe!
    2 He never had desire of worldly wealth nor kingdom! He was offered alot of wealth by his tribe of Qureish, to stop spreading Allah’s message , he did not take any wealth!
    3. He was the most humble natured person, honest and trustworthy, even his tribe said WE KNOW MUHAMMAD NEVR LIED N NEVR LIES but we do not believe what he brings forth to us !
    4. History has it , he never killed anyone , even in a battle, no one was ever killed by his sword! althogh he himself got hurt!
    5. Many times Quresh tried to kill him but he was always saved by Allah much like Allah saved Jesus from crucifixatin!
    6. His followers praised him and enemies planned his death every time Allah saved him!
    He lived a sinless life according to the commandments of Allah! He upheld the message of peace and salvation, He was the Most forgiving person ever,
    and since you talk of behaeding people… this happend when a jewish tribe repeatedly broke the Peace treaty and became allies with the quresh for a war against the Muslims in Medina! and they plaanned to betray muslims n the war , when the particular tribe was beseiged, and asked what punnishment should be given to them, they said punnish us according to our scripture, n in their scripture , the penalty of betrayal was behaeding the men and displacing them from their homes! so it was done accordng to JEWS REQUEST! In other instances what we have seen Prisoners of wars who were knowledgeable were asked to teach the children, or pay a sum of amount for their release….NO BEHAEDING!!! capital punnishment for murderes, and stoning for adulterers! Plauseable punishments for immoral acts… because of adultery AIDS is prevalent now! Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) had advised people to avoid indulging in these immoral acts because ther would be diseases for which no cure would be present! AIDS a perfect example
    u tell me christians have an inhernt ability to do good, do tell me where the Moralty has gone in the christian society??? U comment on 4 marriages in Islam yet u justify 1 marriage n many affairs, alcohol, many one nightstands, where no one is even able to take responsibilty for the kids born as a result! Some people also donot know of their paternity! Is this what Jeus said, r all christians truly following Jesus message,is this what jesus and Moses and abraham taught? Is this considered good in christianity, What do the priests and nuns do in churches , so many innocent babies were burried in churches as a result of their immoral acts! Jesus did not tell them to do an unnatural thing which has led to this immorality…. now I know what response u have to my comments but this is definitely NOT the message given to Jesus either, so when christians say they love Jesus, but not follow him to avoid sins…seems to be hyppocrcy.
    In Islam these acts are punnishable, but since u think u r forgiven, u may choose to do whatevr, All murderers, rapists thieves nad innocent victims together in heaven???? wow!
    Again this is only for THOSE WHO UNDERSTAND, who struggle to find the truth not belive just whatever is written in a book by theologens!
    Mohammad (PBUH) never broke any law of MOSES, In fact all previous message were for a limited period of tym or a certain group of people, not applicable now!, Where as Allah addresses the whole humanity in Quran as a sum up in the FINAL WORD of GOD!

    Also id like to congratulate ISAAC, U r certainly a better person than I,since u struggled for the truth!! and achieved it, I have just been lucky to have born a MUSLIM, otherwise with the current hatred and misinterpretation I might never have gotten a chance to understand the truth. MAsha Allah ! congratulations to you and MAy Allah guide us all to the right path! Ameen

    • Am

      If you want people to answer you, you need to write shorter comments. Do one issue at a time.

      As for the clot issue, there is something called miscarriage. Blood and clots are present, which would have been known at the time of Muhammed.

      We are not made from clots or blood anyhow. The fetus is a multicellular organism and comes from egg and sperm. The blood supply is only one part of fetal development.

    • Am

      If you want people to answer you, you need to write shorter comments. Do one issue at a time.

      As for the clot issue, there is something called miscarriage. Blood and clots are present, which would have been known at the time of Muhammed.

      We are not made from clots or blood anyhow. The fetus is a multicellular organism and comes from egg and sperm. The blood supply is only one part of fetal development.

      WE did not go to Iraq for the oil. We have our own oil here. We actually have enough oil in the USA where we do not need to buy or take any oil from anywhere. WE do not die for oil. We die to help others be free from dictators.

    • Am
      As you like to start your points with an acknowledgement of your god I too will also start with one. It is actually one of my favorite scriptures because it puts man in his place and Glorifies the Almighty. Proverbs 3:5-6 “trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not lean on your own understanding. 6. In all your ways acknowledge him and he will make straight your paths.” (ESV)

      First, I would like to say thank you for being the first Muslim to actually use logic and debate the differences in our faiths. It seems like all we get here are emotional and hate filled responses from the Muslim community. Without honest debate, noone can come to see the truth. I will now attempt to go through the various points you make.

      1. On the topic that Jesus was not God incarnate, You defend this by saying that God does not need to come in human form to understand humnity. I agree with you on that statement, where my disagreement comes is that God CHOSE to do this because of his grace and mercy and love towards an undeserving humanity. The apostle Paul sums this up perfectly in the following scripture Romans 5:12 “Just as sin came into the world through one man (Adam), and death through sin, so death spread to ALL men because ALL sinned.” He then continues 18. “Therefore as one trespass (sin) led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.” Since ALL men are sinners, and Justification requires righteousness, Jesus had to be God in human form, for only a perfect sacrifice would would atone for man’s sin. You can argue that this is from a “corupted” version of the Bible, but this is also consistent with ALL of scripture Including the parts Mohammad “borrowed” from the Bible.

      2. Since you use the radio analogy, I will also use one to express my point. God created the radio to play beautiful music to Glorify Him, Then that radio began to spew out Garbage, as is true of many radios, or the radio no longer worked. No other radio in the world could come to the rescue of that radio cause they were all spewing out Garbage or not working. God, being God could just destroy the old radios and create a new one without the flaws, and being God would be justified in doing so. He did not have to come to earth to understand why they were not working, But he decided to come down and fix the problem, because he really loved those radios though they did not deserve his Love. First, He came down and put new batteries in them (Justification). Then knowing that these radios were designed to glorify Him, He began to send out new radio signals (the Holy Spirit) that over time would drown out the old garbage stations. Eventually, those radios would be restored to how God intended them to be (Sanctifification through grace).
      Once God finishes his work in these radios, not only would they play music to Glorify him, but would do so because they really wanted (willed) to do so as an offering of thanksgiving to their Creator.
      Would you be willing to die for your radio?

      3. Jesus being God incarnate does not make him into “another deity” It only expresses the manifestation of God. This is the concept of the trinity. All three, God the father, Jesus the son, and the Holy spirit are manefestations of the One God. This is one of the reasons that the jewish people killed Jesus, because he said he was God. God the father is God in divine form, Jesus the Son is God in human form, And the Holy Spirit is God in Spirit form. Are there not three spheres in our world which we deal with? The divine, the material, and the spiritual? Because god is omni-present (everywhere at once), Must he not have three forms that he takes in those spheres? this does not mean those are multiple gods.

      4. You also state that Mohammad foresaw what science could not prove at the time (clot, and orbital movements). The Old testament also saw these, refering to humans forming from a seed. The psalmist also says in psalms 139:13, “for you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mothers womb.” It is not until the last century that science showed how DNA is “Knitted” together. The question then becomes What if Mohammad Just plagarized from the Bible and that is how someone who couldn’t read and write could “predict” these things. I know for an undeniable fact that this psalm has been around since before Christ. (See DEAD SEA SCROLLS.) The fact that Jesus quotes the psalms should be proof enough of this.

      5. Much of what you criticize with regard to Christianity, you as well as most muslims do, is that you equate an earthly Kingdom with christianity. Jesus was very clear when he said “My kingdom is not of this earth. Though I live in the U.S., this does not mean I support or uphold their sins. In fact, Christians are on the forefront of of condemming abortion, pornography, divorce, adultery, corruption etc. True Christians do NOT condone any of these sins. All the works of man, however, are insufficent a sacrifice to pay the “debt” that sin has placed on us. So when we Christians are talking about there faith without works as the basis of salvation, this is what we refer to. It is our pride, The original sin, that prevents us from submitting to God’s will, because we would rather do our own will and attempt to earn salvation. Theologically, we know that this is not possible though. (Note logic is at he heart of theoLOGICal thought) When we say we are justified by faith, not by works, It takes our works out of the equation of salvation. Faith=Salvation; works does not = Salvation. But we Christians also say that “Faith without works is dead” James 2:17. Again I say to you do not equate Christians and Gods kingdom with America, a worldly kingdom. As for the priests, and the catholic church, this is another discussion. Though there may be christians in the catholic church, the church has strayed from Biblical Christianity.
      As for the other responses above, I will let the readers discern the Truth. Kudos to you for trying to answer them. I know one thing though, We here in the U.S. can pick up and read any version of the Quran we want to, But you are not allowed to purchase the bible that we Christians use. So I wonder who is hiding something?

  155. also regarding stoning of adulterers,in the Shariah Law, which thanks to Pastor Tery Jones, evry one has heard the name of but in a wrong way, the punnishment can be given only if u have 4 witnesses who have witnessed the act being performed ,( and literally the words used are puting thread in a needle eye) even if one witness is less or not sure that they saw with there own eyes punnishment cannot be givn! and if u accuse someone who has not performed any adultery it comes in BOHTAN and the false accuser is unforgivable by God

    I can go on with the list of miracles n positivities in the Quran, but if u really want to know about it and not just discussing the matter for fun, u really need to study the quran in context and understand according to the time of revelation , since compiling is differntly done than the revelation order, It contains scientific facts, code of conduct reality of the world, n hereafter… Hope someone can benefit from my effort!

  156. lyndsey
    the whole world knows y US forces went to iRAQ!!!! for OIL not to help anyone. now they r moving into libya again for oil!!! it is all materialistic gain that people want in the world, we r destrroying our own race as we speak!
    n regarding sucide, it is prohibited in Islam just as u r distarbed at gay marriages, so r we at these deaths in muslim countries!, but deep dpwn everyone knows they r not doing the killings for Allah as they say becoz Allah condemns it, there r agencies in USA who funded Jehadi movements for their gain, n what is happening now also seems to be funded by outsiders to create a sense of destabilization in those Muslim countires, reason being the Think tanks do not want the spread of Islam, that would put an end to their world domination plans! They know since Muslims r neumerous they could be strong in the world…. Its is all Thirst for Power at the expense of Millions of Innocent peoople…they made U belive 9/11 , just so they could enter Afghanistan. we the gen public go by what the media says n do no resaerch on our own… The VIDEO proofs made by American researchers r sufficient proof as to the setup of that awful event!
    God help us all ameen!

  157. @Am,

    “1.Jesus Was God Incarnate. …(in human form)… I disagree, God does not have to come in human form to know what humans are going through!!”

    Jesus/Yeshua came in human form to be the final blood sacrifice!!

    Yeshua was crucified on Passover! At the same moment that the Jews were sacrificing the lamb for their Passover. This is why Jesus is referred to as the Lamb of G-d!

    No more blood sacrifices were needed for Jesus’s blood covered ALL of humanity’s sin!

    Are you familiar with the Jewish Holidays-Feasts of the Lord?
    Are you familiar with the Jewish Culture?

    Jesus Christ stated “John 14:6Jesus saith unto him, I am the WAY, the TRUTH, and the LIFE: NO MAN cometh unto the Father, but by me. KJV

    NIV translation: John 14:6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. NO ONE comes to the Father except through me.

    John 1:14 The Word (Jesus Christ) became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

    John 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

    John 3:16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM SHALL NOT PERISH but have eternal life. NIV


    You are believing a lie. Get out while you still can and seek diligently the TRUTH.

  158. @ lindsey:
    Please explain to me , that u say jesus died for all of humanity’s sins, that means humanity can do any sin now coz he DIED FOR UR SINS.., but then again Marriane says , No you have to repent for the sin then U will be saved, My Question is these two statements contradict each other, If One beleives JESus died for his sins, then u do not need to repent at all for any sin u do, and if you do have to repent on that sin, then it means That U R yourself responsible for what you do and Jesus wont be able to help u if u r not repenting for what u do!! dru referred , Jesus loved his enemies too! then Would he not save those who believe in jesus the way u do but still sin??? that means Then the foundation of your faith is shaky! becoz what u choose to believe is a Lie told to you by your forefathers, u do not want to understand at all…and true Guidance is only for those who understand… It hurts to c when peoply defy Allah, the Creator, much like defiant and stubborn kids . VErily if He wanted, he could guide all of humanity, but he says in Quran… These r signs for those who understand and ask for guidance..! I can just say one thing….
    For u is your religion and for me is mine, If you r open minded, if life gives you a chnce, look into the scientific facts in the Quran, some of which I wrote above! see for yourself, How modernized Islam really is! ill write some here again for u to read:

    in Quran even the WATER CYCLE has been explained at various places 1400 yrs ago one example is Surah baqarah (2:164)
    “Most surely in the creation of the heavens and the earth and the alternation of the night and the day, and the ships that run in the sea with that which profits men, and the water that Allah sends down from the cloud, then gives life with it to the earth after its death and spreads in it all (kinds of) animals, and the changing of the winds and the clouds made subservient between the heaven and the earth, there are signs for people who understand.”

    Another miracle of the Quran i’ll share with you. it is fairly recent evidence that we came to know that the earth , moon are revolving, n that we upheld the view for so long that the sun is stationary . We now came to know that the Sun with the whole milky way is also headed towards a direction unknown, and God has mentioned it in the Quran again 1400 yrs ago!!!
    Surah YAsin:

    “37. And a sign for them is the night, We withdraw therefrom the day, and behold, they are in darkness.

    38. And the sun runs on its fixed course for a term (appointed). That is the Decree of the All-Mighty, the All-Knowing.

    39. And the moon, We have measured for it mansions (to traverse) till it returns like the old dried curved date stalk.

    40. It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor does the night outstrip the day. They all float, each in an orbit.”

    Please tell me how can a person who could not read or write, prophet Mohammad(PBUH), create this FACT 1400 yrs ago, the information which we just discovered in the 20th century????

    Another miracle is the developing fetus in the mothers womb!! the embryology has been explained in Quran in surah alaq

    ‘1.Read! In the Name of your Lord, Who has created (all that exists),
    2. Has created man from a clot (a piece of thick coagulated blood).
    3. Read! And your Lord is the Most Generous,
    4. Who has taught (the writing) by the pen [the first person to write was Prophet Idrees (Enoch)]
    5. Has taught man that which he knew not.’

    in the second verse of this surah, it is mentioned , created man from a clot, biological sciences now tell us that!
    Also i would like to mention as someone explained previously ,that it is difficult to translate arabic( coz of metaphorical nature and diverse vocabulary )that the arabic word here is ALAQ which has been translated as CLOT for ease…. Infact It means thick coagulum, as well as leech like …n the scientists tell us that when conception occurs the zygote is not only shaped like a leech but also takes nutrition from the mother;s womb much like a leech!
    these and many others are signs for those who Understand, not evry one is blessed with it
    you say that one of Allah’s meanings is deciever, there r 99 names for His magnificence and merciful nature, u choose to do cherry picking to pick one out of rest 99???, He decives those who choose to believe a lie much like you, He decives u into believing what u want to believe, he decieved the Jews into believing thaat Jesus died on the cross, but actually jesus did not die, God raised him upto heaven, He surely will return and put an end to the fuss in the world! He keeps on decieving those until people struggle for the truth, U read antiIslamic books written by biased people with the sole purpose of bringing a bad name to ISlam, if u want to know what Islam is read the Quran n u urself will be able to judge what information these people r keeping from u, a few examples I gave above!
    I am not saying you accept what I am saying, I am just telling u to read Quran with accepted Islamic explanation, and judge for urself! not on commentary by biased anti-islamic people. i can bet u will know the truth! for example even in this blog Mariaane wrote Dajjal’s meaning as christains…and did not correct it even after I told her the true meaning is ANTICHRIST not christains!!! U know y? this is the intentional misleading by the author to promote hatred for Muslims among the jews and, christians!
    May Allah guide us all

    Also everyone knows Y US forces went to Iraq ….for Oil, not to save anyone! now they have focussed on LIBYA y….again for OIL, they did not come forward for Egypt the way they did for Libya, Y coz egypt only has dead stuff!!! mummies etc, NO OIL! Please do not label this materialistic fight as Helping PEOPLE!
    Best of luck

    • Am
      One point that I forgot to address, Is why salvation MUST be a gift. If there is nothing that we can do to earn our salvation, It must be FREE. This is a logical point. If you want scriptures on this, I would be happy to give them to you. If you get a copy (if you are allowed) of Paul’s Epistle to the Romans you will find it there.
      God does not give this gift to everyone, Only to those who believe and repent of their sins. And then God gives the gift freely. Some will argue that repentence is a work. and in some religions it is (think of catholic confessions, And the repentence Man Of Peace spoke about). The repentence that Christianity calls for is a submission to God’s authority, an admittance that neither I, nor any human, is worthy of receiving that Gift. All the other forms of repentence are works, but this is an admittance of unworthiness.
      Why is this not a work, because we are surrendering our own will to The Heavenly Father. In other words believing I am not worthy to receive God’s Gift and believing in our unworthiness from the heart, Is not saying that because I repented I deserve this gift.

      I know this is a rather subtle difference, but the repentence the Bible talks about takes man out of the equation of Salvation, while repentence in the other sense makes man deserve that salvation.

  159. Dru
    do u mean to say biblically,” repentance ” means differntly than the english meaning? these r the meanings of REPNTANCE from dictionary
    1. To feel remorse, contrition, or self-reproach for what one has done or failed to do; be contrite.
    2. To feel such regret for past conduct as to change one’s mind regarding it:e.g repented of intemperate behavior.
    3. To make a change for the better as a result of remorse or contrition for one’s sins.
    what u r refering to… admitting unworthiness for a gift.. is HUMBLE oneself, MEEKNESS , HUMILITY!

    In simple terms, Repentance means feeling sorry for ones actions to such a level as to make an effort to stop repeating the action.
    in this correct meaning of the word, repentance is working towards betterment of oneself, avoiding the sin in future and therefore it is working or earning salvation! not free~

    What u r explaining to me is Mr.X did something wrong, committed a terrible sin , murdered someone on purpose, and now he is ready to recieve frogiveness as a gift?
    Then please tell me again I repeat, all murderers n victims will be in the same heaven then???? that means in the Biblical sense no crime is a crime since evry one will have equal opportunity of forgiveness as a gift?…that means christianity is unjust!

    For discussion purpose even if we consider the meaning of repentance as being meek or humble as u explained… then a person who did not repent and died, will he not get salvation/ forgiveness?
    if NOT then that contradicts with the concept that Jesus died for all your sins and salvation is a FREE gift for humanity coz of Jesus’ death!since the person is not being forgiven on account of his actions, (which in this case is that person did not repent)
    and if you say that he repented and was forgiven that means BIBLICALLY there is no Justice for the innocent victim! That is really cruel! dont u think?

    • I will use the words of Jesus to maybe help you understand.

      “For God so LOVED the world, that he gave his only SON, That WHOEVER BELIEVES in Him should NOT perish but HAVE eternal life.
      17. For God did not send His SON into the world to CONDEMN the world, but in order that the WORLD MIGHT BE SAVED THROUGH HIM.
      18. Whoever BELIEVES in Him is NOT CONDEMNED, BUT whoever does NOT BELIEVE is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only SON OF GOD.
      21. But WHOEVER does what is TRUE comes to the light, so that it may be CLEARLY SEEN THAT HIS WORKS HAVE BEEN CARRIED OUT IN GOD.”
      John 3:16-18,21

      In John 3:27 John the Baptist bearing witness of Jesus also says of Christ “A person cannot receive one thing UNLESS it is GIVEN him from heaven.”

      You are confusing the very notion of a gift, when you say that repentence is a work. Accepting a gift does not mean you deserve it. If we do not accept the gift, we are condemned already to die.

      Then you proceed to argue that a grievous murderer has just as much opportunity to be forgiven. I say yes, because we all have sinned and are sinners, noone is worthy of the gift, no sin is greater than another, we are condemned already, there is only the WILLINGNESS to accept the gift. As I said in regard to the radios God had every right to destroy us. Sending his Son was an act of mercy and grace not of judgement. It is at the white throne judgement that those who are condemned already will receive their just punishment. Those under God’s grace will avoid the Lake of fire, through God’s mercy. I myself am no better than any murderer or thief, but “by his Grace we are saved through faith and that NOT of our OWN DOING, this is the gift of God” Eph 2:8

  160. @ mariaane: i dont think u read the comment on surah alaq, alaq s true meaning i explained, it is not , blood, or clot, or miscarriage! so plz dont twist what i explained! go back and read it again, i suppose u r not familaiar with embryology in detail other than joining of egg and sperm…Fetilization, and circulation,! there r stages in development of embryo and that includes the leech like stage b4 it starts to take a human form which is mentioned in the Quran!

  161. Dru,
    Regarding your reply to my comment, which I just saw coz i usually scroll to the end first.
    Thankyou for acknowledging my logical discussion, even u urself are appreciable for having an unemotional decent discussion!
    1. Id like to clear that Muslims are not prohibitted to read any version of BIBLE…so there is nothing to hide! i myself have a Bible!
    2. I agree with parts of Bible and Torah that are consistent with Quranic teachings, difference starts where they contradict.

    3. Like you explained trinity, i’ll explain the Islamic concept of God, …The Creator of the Universe and evrything between the heavens and the earth!, the all Knowing, all powerful, commonly referred to as HE but has no gender, (coz with gender, the pair has to be there too) since he is THE ONE and ONlY, Beyond ones Imagination, Immaculate, Magnificent, Merciful, capable of doing anything without doing it physically, with ultimate authority over everrything in the world, who does not maaterialize into human or any other form, He orders and the order happens, He does not have to come and do it himself, He is Eternal, who does not need to eat or sleep,( these r human traits and God is Not a human!) who has no beginning nor end! means he is not Created nor will he die or get destroyed, He is present….lIke He said to Moses, ” I am what I am”…. HE is Allah .. According to the Qur’an, “No vision can grasp Him, but His grasp is over all vision. God is above all comprehension, yet is acquainted with all things” (Qur’an 6:103)[2]…..It may be somewhat consistent with what u call the Heavenly father… but since according to Islam God has no gender, he does not beget nor is he begotten! so Islam refutes the concept of trinity!
    Here is where our basic difference lies!

    4. U say Muhammad (pbuh) foresaw….Wrong, He was given revelations by God Almighty, it is Gods word, what came out of his mouth, he was the prophecised prophet in Bible and Torah/old testament, althogh priests and theologians try to explain it otherwise , Ill explain with reference..Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in the Old Testament:

    The Qur’an mentions in Surah Al-Araf chapter 7 verse 157:

    “Those who follow the Messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures) in the law and the Gospel”.


    Almighty God speaks to Moses in Book of Deuteronomy chapter 18 verse 18:

    “I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and I will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.”

    The Christians say that this prophecy refers to Jesus (pbuh) because Jesus (pbuh) was like Moses (pbuh). Moses (pbuh) was a Jew, as well as Jesus (pbuh) was a Jew. Moses (pbuh) was a Prophet and Jesus (pbuh) was also a Prophet.

    If these two are the only criteria for this prophecy to be fulfilled, then all the Prophets of the Bible who came after
    Moses (pbuh) such as Solomon, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Malachi, John the Baptist, etc. (pbut) will
    fulfill this prophecy since all were Jews as well as prophets.

    However, it is Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) who is like Moses (pbuh):

    Both had a father and a mother, while Jesus (pbuh) was born miraculously without any male intervention.

    [Mathew 1:18 and Luke 1:35 and also Al-Qur’an 3:42-47]

    Both were married and had children. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not marry nor had children.

    Both died natural deaths. Jesus (pbuh) has been raised up alive. (4:157-158)

    Muhammad (pbuh) is from among the brethren of Moses (pbuh). Arabs are brethren of Jews. Abraham (pbuh) had two sons: Ishmail and Isaac (pbut). The Arabs are the descendants of Ishmail (pbuh) and the Jews are the descendants of Isaac (pbuh).

    Words in the mouth:

    Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was unlettered and whatever revelations he received from Almighty God he repeated them verbatim.

    “I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.”

    [Deuteronomy 18:18]

    Both besides being Prophets were also kings i.e. they could inflict capital punishment. Jesus (pbuh) said, “My kingdom is not of this world.” (John 18:36).

    Both were accepted as Prophets by their people in their lifetime but Jesus (pbuh) was rejected by his
    people. John chapter 1 verse 11 states, “He came unto his own, but his own received him not.”

    Both brought new laws and new regulations for their people. Jesus (pbuh) according to the Bible did not bring any new laws. (Mathew 5:17-18).

    It is Mentioned in the book of Deuteronomy chapter 18:19

    “And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not harken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.”

    Muhammad (pbuh) is prophesised in the book of Isaiah:

    It is mentioned in the book of Isaiah chapter 29 verse 12:

    “And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.”

    When Archangel Gabrail commanded Muhammad (pbuh) by saying Iqra – “Read”, he replied, “I am not learned”.

    prophet Muhammad (pbuh) mentioned by name in the old testament:

    Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is mentioned by name in the Song of Solomon chapter 5 verse 16:

    “Hikko Mamittakim we kullo Muhammadim Zehdoodeh wa Zehraee Bayna Jerusalem.”

    “His mouth is most sweet: yea, he is altogether lovely. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters
    of Jerusalem.”

    In the Hebrew language im is added for respect. Similarely im is added after the name of Prophet Muhammad
    (pbuh) to make it Muhammadim. In English translation they have even translated the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) as “altogether lovely”, but in the Old Testament in Hebrew, the name of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is yet present.

    Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in the New Testament:

    Al-Qur’an Chapter 61 Verse 6:

    “And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said, ‘O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me and giving glad tidings of a messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmed.’ But when he came to them with clear signs, they said, ‘This is evident sorcery!’ ”

    All the prophecies mentioned in the Old Testament regarding Muhammad (pbuh) besides applying to the Jews also hold good for the Christians.

    John chapter 14 verse 16:
    “And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you forever.”

    Gospel of John chapter 15 verse 26:

    “But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which
    proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me.”

    Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 7:

    “Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not
    come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you”.

    “Ahmed” or “Muhammad” meaning “the one who praises” or “the praised one” is almost the translation of the
    Greek word Periclytos. In the Gospel of John 14:16, 15:26, and 16:7. The word ‘Comforter’ is used in the English translation for the Greek word Paracletos which means advocate or a kind friend rather than a comforter.
    Paracletos is the warped reading for Periclytos. Jesus (pbuh) actually prophesised Ahmed by name. Even the
    Greek word Paraclete refers to the Prophet (pbuh) who is a mercy for all creatures.

    Some Christians say that the Comforter mentioned in these prophecies refers to the Holy Sprit. They fail to realise
    that the prophecy clearly says that only if Jesus (pbuh) departs will the Comforter come. The Bible states that the
    Holy Spirit was already present on earth before and during the time of Jesus (pbuh), in the womb of Elizabeth, and again when Jesus (pbuh) was being baptised, etc. Hence this prophecy refers to none other than Prophet
    Muhammad (pbuh).

    Gospel of John chapter 16 verse 12-14:

    “I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth is
    come, he will guide you unto all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me”.

    The Sprit of Truth, spoken about in this prophecy referes to none other than Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

    NOTE: All quotations of the Bible are taken from the King James Version.

    I hope Allah guides us all

    • Am
      I again would like to begin with some verses that are off topic, but will shed some light eventually. Matthew 4:5-6 “then the Devil took Him(Jesus) to the Holy City (Jerusalem) and set him on the pinnacle of the temple 6. and said to Him, ‘If you are the son of God, throw yourself down, for it is written, “He will command his angels concerning you” and “on their hands they will bear you up, lest you strike your foot against a stone.'” You see, Even the devil can quote scripture. Then jesus said; “Be Gone, Satan!” V10

      1. In your first two comments you claim that you can read the bible, And that you “agree with parts of the Bible and Torah that are in agreement with Quranic teaching, differences start where they contradict” You then proceed to quote passages from the Bible, taking them grossly out of context and to prove the quranic points, Much like Satan when tempting Jesus quoted scriptures. Christianity ,on the other hand, Accepts the bible in its entirety as the divine word of God. Every part of the Old Testament fits like a glove to the revalations in the new testament.
      For Example Deuteronomy 18:18 You quote the part about a prophet, but you go no farther in the text to where it says “…(the prophet) who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.” Deut. 18:20. Allah is not a name used in the bible. Your prophet Mohammad died. The prophet (singular) that Moses is talking about here is Jesus Christ. Just as you saw similarities between Moses and Mohammad, I see similarities between Jesus and Moses.
      A. Jesus and Moses were spared as infants from death
      B. They both renounced the royalty they deserved.
      C. They both spoke directly to God.
      D. They were both mediators of a covenent.

      The Difference between Jesus and Mohammad, is that yes Jesus died, But he rose again the third day, and is alive today.

      Also, Deut18:15-22 speaks of the prophet in singular form. Yet you say that both Jesus and Mohammad are Prophets. This is a contradiction. The question then is who is the real prophet, and who is the Devil,s prophet? or false prophet? In other words, you must deny one or the other as “the Prophet”.

      Now lets look at Isaiah 29:12 in context. First of all, this chapter is talking about the future siege of Jerusalem. When the Lord returns, to save Jerusalem (see verse 6), with The armies surrounding. Verse 10 states “For the Lord has poured out upon you a spirit of deep sleep, and has closed your eyes(prophets), and covered your heads (seers).” This in context is talking of the sealing of this prophecy until the end times siege of Jerusalem. As a Christian, this prophecy, verses 11,12 are talking about the fact that the Jewish people have not been able to see Jesus as their messiah until this final battle, when they are surrounded by armies, and the Lord returns, they will be able to see. Jesus himself, quoted verse 13 to describe the Jewish people of his day. Verses 18,19 state “In that day the deaf shall hear the words of the book, and out of their gloom and darkness, the eyes of the blind shall see. 19. The meek shall obtain fresh joy in the Lord, And the poor among mankind shall exult in the Holy one of ISRAEL (JACOB).” (Parenthesis and emphasis added) Note again, it says book singular (Bible) not books (Bible and Quran).

      Again I say, the devil can quote scripture, as well but quotes it so far out of context in order to acheive his evil goals.

      You then go into saying that Mohammad is the comforter that Jesus spoke of. Just as a non theological side bar, I deny this because I KNOW that that comforter is in me and is working in my life right now.
      What comfort is there in mohammed when his followers are killing people through out the globe? Are they not doing Mohammad’s will of executing punishment on infidels. And the children they lead to death in their folly. How is it that you again pull these scriptures out of John’s gospel, yet you deny the very reason John wrote his gospel, namely the divinity of Jesus Christ. The gospel of John has dozens of “proofs” of the divinity of Christ, yet you pick and choose verses out of it that can be misconstrued to mean that another prophet will be sent. If your faith cannot accept the entirety of God’s Word, God will curse you with the plagues of The Book of Revalation.

      Forgive me if this sounds harsh AM but Islam is the church of Satan and I reuke satan. It is the opposite of everything that God taught to his chosen people the Jews, and is the opposite of what Jesus taught. It is the epitomy of the Anti-Christ.

      I was hoping that you were a person in search of the Truth, but instead you support a religion of men that is backed up with lies.

      You quote scripture as satan did in tempting Jesus, and rather than questioning what you were taught as a child you merely repeat the teachings of those men.

      Every false religion denies the trinity, and the divinity of Jesus, whether it is Islam, Mormonism, or Jehovahs witnesses, until you can see that Christ was God in Human form, then you will always be defending the church of the devil.

      Again, I say to you, God’s Kingdom is not of this earth. The more violence, hatred, stonings, beheadings, suicide bombers, etc, that you and your people commit, the more it proves that you are fighting your Jihad for an earthly kingdom, not a heavenly one. The more you and your brothers fight to bring about a theocracy, the more it proves you are fighting for Satan’s earthly kingdom Which will be destroyed by God on the day of Judgement, When your armies are surrounding Jerusalem as predicted in Isaiah 29. And Israel(JACOB) shall finally see Jesus, The one “whom they have pierced” as their Messiah.

  162. Dru,
    An emotional account on ur behalf?? The signs are in front of you but u choose to disbelieve! DO READ ALL OF IT!!
    In surah Baqarah of the Quran Allah says: Chapter 1 verse 1-7
    1. Alif-Lam-Mim. [These letters are one of the miracles of the Qur’an and none but Allah (Alone) knows their meanings].

    2. This is the Book (the Qur’an), whereof there is no doubt, a guidance to those who are Al-Muttaqun [the pious and righteous persons who fear Allah much (abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds which He has forbidden) and love Allah much (perform all kinds of good deeds which He has ordained)].

    3. Who believe in the Ghaib and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and spend out of what we have provided for them [i.e. give Zakat , spend on themselves, their parents, their children, their wives, etc., and also give charity to the poor and also in Allah’s Cause }.

    4. And who believe in (the Qur’an and the Sunnah) which has been sent down (revealed) to you (Muhammad Peace be upon him ) and in [the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel), etc.] which were sent down before you and they believe with certainty in the Hereafter. (Resurrection, recompense of their good and bad deeds, Paradise and Hell, etc.).

    5. They are on (true) guidance from their Lord, and they are the successful.

    6. Verily, those who disbelieve, it is the same to them whether you (O Muhammad Peace be upon him ) warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe.

    7. Allah has set a seal on their hearts and on their hearings, (i.e. they are closed from accepting Allah’s Guidance), and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be a great torment.

    6-7 verse apply to yuo..

    further in chp. 1 verse 18
    18. They are deaf, dumb, and blind, so they return not (to the Right Path). { means they hear but not percieve, they look but they do not see nor they understand!

    further in chp1 verse 23
    23. And if you (Arab pagans, Jews, and Christians) are in doubt concerning that which We have sent down (i.e. the Qur’an) to Our slave (Muhammad Peace be upon him ), then produce a Surah (chapter) of the like thereof and call your witnesses (supporters and helpers) besides Allah, if you are truthful.

    24. But if you do it not, and you can never do it, then fear the Fire (Hell) whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers

    You agree that the Satan can qoute bible???…. that means it can be tempered with!! your satement is an answer in itself that agrees with the Islamic belief that althogh the bible and Torah were revealed books, but they were tempered with by your theologians who have misled so many people! It is not I who qoute it out of context but YOUR THEOLOGIANS R to blame who Qouted the WRONG CONTEXT! on the Contrary Quran is saved from such intervention of any kind! it is God’s promise in the Quran translated by various translators as follows

    YUSUFALI: No falsehood can approach it FROM BEFORE IT OR BEHIND IT: It is sent down by One Full of Wisdom, Worthy of all Praise.
    PICKTHAL: Falsehood cannot come at it FROM BEFORE IT OR FROM BEHIND IT. (It is) a revelation from the Wise, the Owner of Praise.
    SHAKIR: Falsehood shall not come to it FROM BEFORE IT NOR FROM BEHIND IT; a revelation from the Wise, the Praised One.
    KHALIFA: No falsehood could enter it, IN THE PAST OR IN THE FUTURE; a revelation from a Most Wise, Praiseworthy.
    (Quran 41:42)

    You are saying that Muslims r killing people through out the globe?? like u mentioned n I know already, Christianity and America r not synonymous, similarly do not Judge Islam on basis of what people are doing, IT IS PEOPLE WHO R TO BLAME WHO CHOOSE TO BE EXTREMISTS NOT THE RELIGION! Islam calls for Moderation, not violence…

    the following verses in surah Baqarah chapter 1 applies to the Hypocrites at the time of the Prophet, the PRESENT HYPPOCRITEs ( suicide bombers etc) that you referrred to and evn the AMERICANS who r waging war in the Muslim countries on the label of PEACE! (focus on verse 11-12)

    8. And of mankind, there are some (hypocrites) who say: “We believe in Allah and the Last Day” while in fact they believe not.

    9. They (think to) deceive Allah and those who believe, while they only deceive themselves, and perceive (it) not!

    10. In their hearts is a disease (of doubt and hypocrisy) and Allah has increased their disease. A painful torment is theirs because they used to tell lies.

    11. And when it is said to them: “Make not mischief on the earth,” they say: “We are only peacemakers.”

    12. Verily! They are the ones who make mischief, but they perceive not.

    13. And when it is said to them (hypocrites): “Believe as the people (followers of Muhammad Peace be upon him , Al-Ansar and Al-Muhajirun) have believed,” they say: “Shall we believe as the fools have believed?” Verily, they are the fools, but they know not.

    14. And when they meet those who believe, they say: “We believe,” but when they are alone with their Shayatin (devils – polytheists, hypocrites, etc.), they say: “Truly, we are with you; verily, we were but mocking.”

    15. Allah mocks at them and gives them increase in their wrong-doings to wander blindly.

    16. These are they who have purchased error for guidance, so their commerce was profitless. And they were not guided.

    17. Their likeness is as the likeness of one who kindled a fire; then, when it lighted all around him, Allah took away their light and left them in darkness. (So) they could not see.

    18. They are deaf, dumb, and blind, so they return not (to the Right Path).

    19. Or like a rainstorm from the sky, wherein is darkness, thunder, and lightning. They thrust their fingers in their ears to keep out the stunning thunderclap for fear of death. But Allah ever encompasses the disbelievers (i.e. Allah will gather them all together).

    20. The lightning almost snatches away their sight, whenever it flashes for them, they walk therein, and when darkness covers them, they stand still. And if Allah willed, He could have taken away their hearing and their sight. Certainly, Allah has power over all things.

    21. O mankind! Worship your Lord (Allah), Who created you and those who were before you so that you may become Al-Muttaqun (the pious – see V.2:2).

    22. Who has made the earth a resting place for you, and the sky as a canopy, and sent down water (rain) from the sky and brought forth therewith fruits as a provision for you. Then do not set up rivals unto Allah (in worship) while you know (that He Alone has the right to be worshipped).

    So do not take what the terrorists are doing as synonymous with Islam! they do not exercise their better judgement themselves, much like you,. You say u can read any version of Quran?? Go ahead read it, understand it and judge for yourself!!!

    I qoute surah Ar Rehman for you
    1. The Most Beneficent (Allâh)!

    2. Has taught (you mankind) the Qur’ân (by His Mercy).

    3. He created man.

    4. He taught him eloquent speech.

    5. The sun and the moon run on their fixed courses (exactly) calculated with measured out stages for each (for reckoning, etc.).

    6. And the herbs (or stars) and the trees both prostrate.

    7. And the heaven He has raised high, and He has set up the Balance.

    8. In order that you may not transgress (due) balance.

    9. And observe the weight with equity and do not make the balance deficient.

    10. And the earth He has put for the creatures.

    11. Therein are fruits, date-palms producing sheathed fruit-stalks (enclosing dates).

    12. And also corn, with (its) leaves and stalk for fodder, and sweet-scented plants.

    13. Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you both (jinns and men) deny?

  163. DRu
    Regarding divinity of Jesus:
    The word Divine has many meanings;
    1. pertaining to god.
    2. (Christianity / Ecclesiastical Terms) a priest, esp one learned in theology is also divine!

    You say JESUS was god in human form…Was he GOD or HUMAN? please try to use common sense,
    If He was God, he should have no Human traits! If he changed into human, then he lost all powers and properties of God! There is no such thing as DIVINE HUMAN, a perfect oxymoron!

    Trinity is a gift given to you by the ROMANS who worshipped many gods and those gods were assumed /thogut to have childeren..
    so they said Jesus was Son of God since they adhered to their old teachings…they rejected the Miraculous birth of Jesus! that is Y Quran addresses people not to say Jesus is son of God, becoz that was the myth prevailing at the time!

    CONTRADICTIONS in the DIVINE naature of Jesus ARE:
    1. Jesus was either son of God or…. had a miraculous birth with out male intervention?…romans believed the first part , you believe the second!
    2. recently christians justify he was not son of God… he was god himself in human form!
    so question arises the moemnt you assume God changed to human , he ceases to be God! like u explained same material changed into differnt form.. so was Jesus human or God?

    Definition of God
    1. (Christian Religious Writings / Theology) Theol the sole Supreme Being, eternal, spiritual, and transcendent, who is the Creator and ruler of all and is infinite in all attributes; the object of worship in monotheistic religions
    2. One who is supernatural, immortal!and omnipotent and omniscient originator and ruler of the universe

    Jesus was a human he had no attribute of God! u say he DIED…if you believe he WAS crucified…then that cannot be God because, God is immortal, has no beginning and no end!

    but still Quran says capt 1 verse 6-7
    6. Verily, those who disbelieve, it is the same to them whether you (O Muhammad Peace be upon him ) warn them or do not warn them, they will not believe.

    7. Allah has set a seal on their hearts and on their hearings, (i.e. they are closed from accepting Allah’s Guidance), and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be a great torment.

    Evrything is clear in Quran! you try to twist and turn the meanings of your bible and create your own!and when I give you justifications u turn away and mock my religion in retun! Evrything is clear from my above discussions for THOSE WHO UNDERSTAND! Clearly U r one of those that the Quran mentions!

    Best of luck in the hereafter
    Do remember to tell God on the day of Judgement that someone did tell me but I chose not to believe!

    • Am

      Jesus is the one promised to Moses, not Muhammed. The bible is not a holy book of the Arabs, but of the Jews.

      The comforter is the holy spirit and came after Jesus left, 50 days later, just as Jesus promised. The holy spirit only came upon select prophets before Jesus, but after Jesus, He was available to everyone.

      Muhammed was not a comforter. He was a warrior.

      This is a false claim. Isaiah and the other prophets never predicted an Arab was going to lead the Jewish nation.

      Jesus clearly said the Comforter is the holy spirit:

      Jhn 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

      Jhn 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

      Jhn 14:17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

      The word “divine” means “of heavenly origin.”

      Notice that the comforter is a Spirit, not a man.

      So anyone from heaven is divine, including angels.

      God is divine, Jesus is divine, angels are divine, the holy spirit is divine.

      Jesus was and is the son of God, even if the Quran denies this.

      Jesus is not a product of a heavenly or earthly marriage. God does not need a wife to have a son.

      He pre-existed in heaven before he came to earth as God’s son and he is there now as God’s son.

      Since the Quran contradicts the bible, you cannot believe both of them.

      The bible has been true for 4000 years, and it has proven itself with hundreds of prophecies that came true.

      The bible is not corrupt either. That is another false claim and there is not proof for that.

      I know you are convinced the bible is wrong and the Quran is right, but there is only one truth.

      If you respect Jesus and what he said about himself, then believe what he said about himself.

      Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

      Jhn 14:11 Believe me that I [am] in the Father, and the Father in me:

      Jhn 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

      Jhn 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.

      Jhn 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father [is] in me, and I in him.

      Am, Please spend some time and read the book of John. It will not take that long. You will learn much if you do.

    • AM
      You accuse me of an emotional response yet you do not respond to the points I make, instead you use weak arguements and verses out of context to support your point. The contradictions in your answers are throuout them. If anyone will read all your answers in a row, they will see them. Is Mohamad a man of peace, or is he supposed to carry out judgement with violence? He copied verses out of context from the bible much like you are doing now and you claim it is divinely inspired, Mohammad takes credit for saying things that were clearly in the OT long before mohammad hit the scene. Surah Baqara 1:7 of Quran which you quoted above which is almost verbatim of Isaiah 29:11, except the subject was changed to fit your religion. The book of Isaiah was amongst the dead sea scrolls, It was 100% accurate with my translation. Did the Romans know how to change these documents that were hidden by people trying to hide from the Romans? You cannot answer this and you will not.

      Your answers are like the child that is caught red handed trying to steal cookies, and you accuse someone else of doing it. In that respect, I rebuke you. This is not emotion this is correction.

      Perhaps the study we should be making is a comparison of verses from the Quran which were plagerized from the Bible. Because I know your only real arguement against the Bible is that it was corrupted by men, whether Romans, Jews, or Christians. Last time I checked, plagerism is a form of theft, therefore, if it can be proven, we will see that Mohammad was not perfect.

      As you pointed out, The Holy spirit is mentioned in the Old Testament, As is Jesus Himself. If they were mentioned there, That means they are with God, Eternal, and one with God. In this respect, the trinity is an Old testament concept. Jesus was God in Human form, and yes when he existed in human form he was limited to a human body, and he was at that time Human also. (He went to the Bathroom, he got hungry and thirsty, He could be tempted by satan to turn stones into loaves of bread, and he could face death.) That is the amazing part of God’s love. He who was creator of all, came to be man. Just like the redio analogy, would you be willing to be like your creation, a radio, and face the hardships those radios felt, and face the death they faced though you are still God. So then God chose to limit himself for the purpose of redeeming humanity. But his divine and spiritual forms remained omni-present,and omniscient. Note, the Holy spirit descended as a dove during the transfiguration.

      We here in the U.S. had a lawyer,and I can’t remember his name who took up a challenge to prove that the story of Jesus was a fraud. He at the time was a skeptic. One of the hundreds of proofs that he gave that the bible was not a fabrication, was the fact that it was the witness of two women that was used to prove the resurection. As you may or may not know, in the paternalistic society of those days women were not allowed to be witnesses in trials. So then, why would those fabricating the scripture have such a prominent role in this event. In other words, would i not have had Roman guards as witnesses if I was a roman trying to falsify a religion? Or wouldn’t I want a jewish man of honor, say a pharisee be a witness to this event, if I was trying to corrupt it in favor of the jewish people? In fact, the supposed Gospel of Peter was discarded from the Canon of the bible by the early church because it tried to place these witnesses there at the resurrection. I doubt very much that you will respond to this.

  164. @ mariaane;
    u have false claims about Islam, and u r unable to justify them coz U have not read or understood the Quran, so that does not qualify u or any one to say Quran was made up or Muhammad ((pbuh) was not a prophet, What u and all other christians say…the gen public, is the result of what the media projects…one sided story of overly exaggerated frenzy!

    When you dismiss surah Alaq by just saying miscarriage was known, it shows how much u have researched in the Quran your is a link read about it!

    I’ll give you another example:
    In the Quran, Allah says;and note Muhammad (pbuh) does not say it of his own accord,y??? Because consider his background… Muhammad was a Man , not God, He was an Arab,means desert dweller, never been near a sea, ocean etc, had no submarienes or scientific technology to look into oceanography!! the Quran says in surah Ar Rehman:

    17. (He is) the Lord of the two easts (places of sunrise during early summer and early winter) and the Lord of the two wests (places of sunset during early summer and early winter).

    18. Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you both (jinns and men) deny?

    19. He has let loosed the two seas (the salt water and the sweet) meeting together.

    20. Between them is a barrier which none of them can transgress.

    21. Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you both (jinns and men) deny?

    22. Out of them both come out pearl and coral.

    23. Then which of the Blessings of your Lord will you both (jinns and men) deny?

    The Quran on Seas and Rivers:
    Modern Science has discovered that in the places where two different seas meet, there is a barrier between them. This barrier divides the two seas so that each sea has its own temperature, salinity, and density. For example, Mediterranean sea water is warm, saline, and less dense, compared to Atlantic ocean water. When Mediterranean sea water enters the Atlantic over the Gibraltar sill, it moves several hundred kilometers into the Atlantic at a depth of about 1000 meters with its own warm, saline, and less dense characteristics. The Mediterranean water stabilizes at this depth.

    Although there are large waves, strong currents, and tides in these seas, they do not mix or transgress this barrier.

    The Holy Quran mentioned that there is a barrier between two seas that meet and that they do not transgress. God has said:

    He has set free the two seas meeting together. There is a barrier between them. They do not transgress. (Quran, 55:19-20)

    But when the Quran speaks about the divider between fresh and salt water, it mentions the existence of “a forbidding partition” with the barrier. God has said in the Quran:

    He is the one who has set free the two kinds of water, one sweet and palatable, and the other salty and bitter. And He has made between them a barrier and a forbidding partition. (Quran, 25:53)

    One may ask, why did the Quran mention the partition when speaking about the divider between fresh and salt water, but did not mention it when speaking about the divider between the two seas?

    Modern science has discovered that in estuaries, where fresh (sweet) and salt water meet, the situation is somewhat different from what is found in places where two seas meet. It has been discovered that what distinguishes fresh water from salt water in estuaries is a “pycnocline zone with a marked density discontinuity separating the two layers.” This partition (zone of separation) has a different salinity from the fresh water and from the salt water.

    This information has been discovered only recently, using advanced equipment to measure temperature, salinity, density, oxygen dissolubility, etc. The human eye cannot see the difference between the two seas that meet, rather the two seas appear to us as one homogeneous sea. Likewise, the human eye cannot see the division of water in estuaries into the three kinds: fresh water, salt water, and the partition (zone of separation).

    The Quran on Deep Seas and Internal Waves:
    God has said in the Quran:

    ” Or (the unbelievers’ state) is like the darkness in a deep sea. It is covered by waves, above which are waves, above which are clouds. Darknesses, one above another. If a man stretches out his hand, he cannot see it…. (Quran, 24:40)”

    This verse mentions the darkness found in deep seas and oceans, where if a man stretches out his hand, he cannot see it. The darkness in deep seas and oceans is found around a depth of 200 meters and below. At this depth, there is almost no light. Below a depth of 1000 meters there is no light at all. Human beings are not able to dive more than forty meters without the aid of submarines or special equipment. Human beings cannot survive unaided in the deep dark part of the oceans, such as at a depth of 200 meters.

    Scientists have recently discovered this darkness by means of special equipment and submarines that have enabled them to dive into the depths of the oceans.

    We can also understand from the following sentences in the previous verse, “…in a deep sea. It is covered by waves, above which are waves, above which are clouds….”, that the deep waters of seas and oceans are covered by waves, and above these waves are other waves. It is clear that the second set of waves are the surface waves that we see, because the verse mentions that above the second waves there are clouds. But what about the first waves? Scientists have recently discovered that there are internal waves which “occur on density interfaces between layers of different densities.”

    The internal waves cover the deep waters of seas and oceans because the deep waters have a higher density than the waters above them. Internal waves act like surface waves. They can also break, just like surface waves. Internal waves cannot be seen by the human eye, but they can be detected by studying temperature or salinity changes at a given location.

    Verily he was talking what the Creator ordained Him, coz he himself could not know this information, neithr copy it off from any sea scrolls like u say! and these are signs for those who understand!
    Here is a link you might like reading this info with Diagrams!

    • Am

      It was common knowledge that sweet and saline waters were separate.

      But that is not our topic.

      Please respond to the words of Jesus I gave you.

  165. Please READ CAREFULLY
    So mariaane: u just conformed the contradiction by saying jesus is Son of God.
    U tell me: God+ Jesus(Son)+Holy spirit= 1 God
    mathematically incorrect as well!!
    1+1+1=3 not one ,
    whereas DRU says.. Jesus is God in humanform,

    this is the basic conccept of your faith and you guys are unsure about it! no consensus at all on the matter?

    1. U fail to justify that Jesus was God or son of God,Infact U urself do not understand it! If you say he was begotted son of God, you refute the miraculous birth of jesus!
    and then u say He was in the heaven just created by God not begotten son…. then on what parameters do you consider him as the Son of God? In that context all people in the world are God’s childern then there is nothing special about Jesus as son coz Evryone else was created in the same way, by Gods order! and if this is so God and the son cannot be 1 they r 2 entities then!

    2. you fail to justify that jesus was crucified or not, If he was crucified, and died, means u attribute a human trait to him and He is not God!

    3. Then U fail to Justify that Jesus died for your sins! and all have the Free gift of salvation, like i said earlier,
    i) in this context a murderer will be glorified in the here after with free gift of salvation!

    ii)then u bring up repentance,)If a murderer does not repent.. he does not get salvation! that means salvation is not free for evryone since person is accountable for his own actions and is not forgiven…that means Jesus wont be able to save all his people by his sacrifice so how is salvation a free gift,

    iii) even if a murderer repents and gets salvation, isnt that unfair to the innocent victim? infact the innocent person’s blood shed was invain so unjustice will prevail in the hereafter?

    Where as ALL muslims Believe in One God, all messengers and Prophets sent by Him, and the last of the Proophets, Mohammad(pbuh)! The present conflict among Muslim sunnis & shiite, etc is not on the basic concepts of religion as u guys have it in Christianity , it is on how to practice religion! which I am totally against,I’ll give you an example ,Islam allows us to offer prayers either with hands by your sides or tie them in front of your chest,… sunnis chose to adhere by one and the shiite the other and stick by it! where as both methods are acceptable in Islam, like I said it is the People who Choose to be Extremists NOT THE RELIGION!

    When you say”The bible is not corrupt either. That is another false claim and there is not proof for that. ”

    U mean to tell me bible is not a corrupted book but all basic concepts in Bible contradict eachother which u r unable to justify! but u accept it blind folded…seems to me that the Holy bible WAS intervived with man-made stories! that does mean it was corrupted, Y r the theologians changing versions of Bible evry now and then, Because they Know for a fact that your forefathers tempered with it, if u choose to look the other way mariaane that does not mean the fact gets changed! Your theologians do accept it so u should too!

  166. @ mariaane the non mixing of sweet and salt water is a common knowledge NOW IN THE 20th and 21st CENTURY, do your research it was not known at that time 1400 yrs ago…seems like all you have in response to my scientific Justifications is …..denial!!!
    and psychologically usually 1st response to a shock is denial!

  167. In fact marrianne u want it so badly to be true that Bible did not get corrupted that u deny all logic, facts and figures, In fact ur pride does not let you see the right path, U still cannot get over the fact that the Last Prophet was amongst the Arabs and not Jews! deny as much as you like but denial will not lead you to heaven, even being a Muslim does not guarantee me a place in heaven! If I do evil deeds id be punnished regardless of wether I am Muslim or not!, So I have to check upon my actions frequently! I have to abide by Allah’s will of doing good and abstain from all evil only then heaven will await me!
    it is not a competion to be a muslim christian or Jew, In fact it is the struggle to search for the truth, Believe in Oneness of God…(as u explained u believe in 3 one the father, Jesus the son and the Holy spirit!) belief in his Prophets, his angels his books but follow the latest in the series!
    It is a struggle to get heaven, neither one of us will be able to help each other in God’s court! it is a struggle agianst the satan to stay on the right path , a struggle to be a MOMIN and MUTTAQI, pious and submit to God’s will! this is not a debate for who is right or who is wrong it is a debate to logically, and factually accept the truth!

    May Allah guide us all

    • Am
      It is you who deny the inerrancy of scripture. read my post above.
      The quran is not the latest in a series it is only a fabrication of a man. A Man who lied, murdered, and wanted to build an earthly kingdom, the realm of Satan. As I said in one of my earlier posts above, your faith is baseless!

  168. dru
    I know for a fact my faith is strong in foundation n yet again you prove that what u chose to believe is Fabrication mixed into the real scripture! the fact remains none of the christians have been ever able to answer the questions That I put forward and you never will becoz it is man’s indulgence which rendered the bible full 0f inaccuracies and contradictions, hard to believe ideas that forced you guys to explain it illogically and accept it as it is…. losing temper or denying will never change this fact! Pointing fingers and insulting others will never answer these questions becoz u urself know deep down, many things in the bible have been changed nd no one can say what was real and what was fiction! the struggle to correct it results in new edition of bible!!

    what evr you guys have said, only substantiates that christains do not understand bible itself! various and diverse explantions each one differnt confirms it , ther is no standard thing, that proves it is no longer God’s words in original form!

    For exampke. try as i might, to believe that i will never die, the fact remains that one day I will and nothing can change that, try as u might to explain the contraditions in your book, the fact remains it was tempered with and impossible to correct now!

    I know the only response u all have is point fingers that Muslims are wrong with no basis what so ever,so ur case is pretty weak! and agiain i’ll repeat that does not change the fact who is on the right path!

    I leave it to u to decide since God never forces His will on any one and he never commands us to do so! Signs are pretty clear for Those who understand. In the end I will just say what Allah orders me to…” For u is your religion and for me is mine!”

    • Dear Am

      As I pointed out, Jesus said he was the son of God. If you do not believe him, then be consistent and reject him as your prophet, because you say Jesus is lying. A true prophet does not lie.

      Your problem is that you do not understand spiritual things. I explained what “divine” means. You do not comprehend. SO you do not believe what I tell you.

      You argue without proof. You cannot prove the bible is corrupt.

    • Am
      As I said in the post above You will not answer the question on why our bible is accurate with the OT scrolls found in dead sea caves. How is it that the Romans changed These scrolls when the people that hid them were hiding them from the Romans?

      Nor do you respond to the fact that the bible has women as witnesses to resurection? And wouldn’t the early church have left the gospel of Peter in the canon of the bible since it had “better witnesses” to the resurection in it?

      You turn again to the “I know you are but what am I” arguments of a child, By returning to the argument that our bible has been corrupted.

      When you quote scripture out of context, there is nothing there for me to respond to, since you fail to see tourself doing so.

  169. Dear Am,

    I have been reading the posts here between you, Dru and Marianne, and I don’t wish to become involved within the discussion, because I don’t wish for you to feel that you are perhaps being ganged up on at all. If you would though, would you please do me a favor?
    Would you please go to this site and take a bit of time in watching the videos of these peoples testimony.
    Thanks Am, and God Bless.

  170. Dear Marriane, I never said Jesus lied! Prophets did not lie! I said the people who compiled the Bible after Jesus’ time on the earth made a fabrication and said it from his side that he is God! Since Jesus is not here to clear up his side of the story, neither r those people living who compiled the bible then! So u can not ask any of them who is right and who is not!
    Look at the facts , not mere assumptions! U say with certainty that Bible did not get tempered with, but FACTS STATE OTHER WISE

    Just try to think , y u have different editions of the book???
    just answer this question! This is proof enough for any sensible person!

    If it was in its original revealed form, y would there be a need to have new editions? which part is tempered with that they r trying to correct? which part has most corrections? Y is there controversy among christians on wether jesus is son of God or God himself?
    I’ll tell you Y! becoz this is the part that is temperd with mainly, that has caused all the confusion.

    Jesus never said he was God, it was people who raised him to level of God! it is mentioned in the Quran but since u do not believe in the Quran as a revealed book or Prophet Mohammad(pbuh) as the last Prophet of Allah, U choose to believe a man made fabrication and twisting of fact instead,so u r unable to see the obvious!
    i speak with facts and Logic, while you attack my religion with assumptions and speculations!
    When u have researched enough into Islam then talk to me, not on the basis of ur assumptions!

  171. Dear Am,

    I’m sorry that you didn’t have the courage to inspect the site that I offered for you above, or acknowledge my post.
    I wish you the best. God Bless

  172. dru
    There r similarities in the Quran and previous revelations because they had a common source…the Creator, One God…. Allah!

    U say plagerism….pls justify how an unlettered person,( WHO COULDNT READ OR WRITE) born into the idolworshippers in Arabian desert had access to the scriptures that were probably in Greek or Hebrew language at the time! ( or even if we assume was translated into arabic) , it was of no use at all to him coz he was unable to read or write!
    Then you must assume, either he was taught the Psalms or Isaiah by his family, which is impossible coz of these reasons:
    1. his family worshipped idols and did not believe in these scriptures!
    2.He was never taught to read or write

    2.AS second option u have to assume that some jew or christian was there who helped him,… read out Isaiah or Psalms etc to him daily since he was unable to read or write himself , helped him understand and translate the scripture word by word into the Quran in arabic? in that case,
    first muslims should have been those jews and christians who helped him…and by history we know for sure that is not the case!
    That seems such a far fetched story! tooo many assumptions and none verifiable!

    3. it could be that he surfed the net Googled evrything into the Quran ….(since in Mariaane’s words,) EVERY ONE KNOWS u can find all info over the net! ….the fact is, there was no internet 1400 yrs ago! just like it was not known to man about the embryological stages and unmixing of fresh and salt water, or formation of clouds or lightning or the importance and structure of Mountains 1400 yrs ago!

    Carbon dating of dead sea scrolls does not prove he copied material because he himself couldnt read or write, or other wise dig into some history books and find out those christaians and jews who taught him their scriptures!

    Since u do not know the lifehistory of Prophet Mohammad (pbuh) u accuse him of plagerizing! go read his life story and you’ll know that is not the case!

    Y there r similarities in Quran and previous revelations
    …because people from Jews and christians came to Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) and asked him about particular things that were present in their scriptures in order to test wheether he knows about it or not! and they said if he truly was the prophecised Prophet he would know about it…and Allah revealed his revelations to him confirming he was the Prophet (pbuh) they were waiting for! and after confirming that he did infact know they rejected him as a Prophet on the sole reason that he was not a jew! In surah Kahaf Allah says to the Prophet (pbuh)

    1. All the praises and thanks be to Allah, Who has sent down to His slave (Muhammad ) the Book (the Qur’an), and has not placed therein any crookedness.

    2. (He has made it) Straight to give warning (to the disbelievers) of a severe punishment from Him, and to give glad tidings to the believers (in the Oneness of Allah Islamic Monotheism), who work righteous deeds, that they shall have a fair reward (i.e. Paradise).

    3. They shall abide therein forever.

    4. And to warn those (Jews, Christians, and pagans) who say, “Allah has begotten a son (or offspring or children).”

    5. No knowledge have they of such a thing, nor had their fathers. Mighty is the word that comes out of their mouths [i.e. He begot (took) sons and daughters]. They utter nothing but a lie.

    6. Perhaps, you, would kill yourself (O Muhammad ) in grief, over their footsteps (for their turning away from you), because they believe not in this narration (the Qur’an).

    So ur hypothesis of plagerism is quite unacceptable, infact ridiculous! If u look into scientific researches sometimes you will find statements like ” schnieder and schwann” discovered the basic strucute of the cell INDEPENDENTLY in 1938- 1939…
    what does independantly mean?, it means they were in differnt countries and discovered the same thing on their own!
    even in 1938-39 info was slow to travel past the globe and even the info of the breakthrough in biological sciences was slow to reach!!! so they honor both scientists and give both of them equal credit for their work!!

    Even in 20th century information did not spread that quickly and U give me that the Carbon dating of scriptures more than 1400 yrs old are proof of plagery? in the above example either schneider or schwaan plagerized info since one found cell in 1938 and the other in 1939?? U mean to say that info travelled faster 1400 yrs ago than in 20th century? If this is so, Y noone of the Quresh was jewish or Christian, why were they plunged into darkness of Idolatory if those scriptures were there b4 Mohammad (PBUH)!! That means they had recieved no such information at all! they had no connection with the arrival of Prophets to Jews or the Books revaled to them!
    and if only Muhammad (pbuh) somehow got hold of those scriptures, who did he go to for explaining to him and which of the Jews or Christians facilitated him to copy into a new order or LAw?

    Also in the Quran are facts that no man knew at the time from COMMON KNOWLEDGE THAT PEOPLE HAVE IN 20th CENTURY! so how can a man know all these scientific facts 1400 yrs back?
    Ans is Only because it was God’s message revealed to Muhammad (pbuh)

    Also regarding your point in discarding parts of bible:
    U again substantiate the fact that first it was added and then deleted from the picture, but my question still stands, Y IS THERE A NEED TO ADD OR DELETE STUFF FROM THE HOLY BOOK? Y COULD IT NOT BE IN THE FORM IT WAS REVEALED IN! Y R STILL COTRRECTIONS BEING MADE TO IT…?
    this creates a doubt as to the 100% authenticity of BIBLE !
    whereas in the Quran there has been no addition or deletion in the text uptill now!
    So I choose to believe that BOOK that is 100% in the original format than the one that creates even 1% of doubt!! and the additions deletions and contradictions in the Bible make it alot more doubtful than 1%, but this is my opinion, U are free to choose whatever…
    Thanks to dru & Marrianne in helping me strengthen my faith
    God bless us all Ameen

    • AM
      Again I say you pick and choose which questions to answer.
      You answered my question regarding the dead sea scrolls being 100% accurate with my bible, by saying what “Carbon Dating does not prove Mohammad copied scripture”. I Used the Dead sea scrolls as proof of the authenticity and accuracy of our Bible. Not to prove that he copied it. I said that the carbon dating puts them long before your Prophets time.

      The current Canon of 66 books in the Bible was come to by the early church. the fact that they deleted a later book (Gospel of Peter) shows me that they were guarding the authenticity of the Gospel. The gospel of Peter was written 150ad or thereabouts. none of the eyewitnesses to the events were around to confirm its authenticity. As I Said, and you will not answer, why wouldn’t the church, If they were wanting the resurrection to be more believable, Put Roman guards and Jewish priests there as eyewitnesses to the resurection? How much has been added to the quran by Imams through the centuries?

      AS I said, you pick and choose what you will answer and you always come back to questioning the authenticity of our scripture. This to me is baseless. If as you say, the quran is accurate, and you can agree that our scripture is accurate, then we can have a theological debate. You fear this, and Muslims fear this, despite the fact that the inerrancy of the bible has been proven. In other words, you shy away from a debate of equals, and must discredit one in order to feel as if you even have a chance of winning. MAN UP

  173. hi gregg
    i did look into the website you gave me thanks for sharing information, I already have this information, and since you have been following the thread, u must know most of concepts I have already addressed ..
    thanks for being polite

    • Hi Am,

      Thank you for your response.

      It takes courage to look into things when they appear to be so contrary to what it is that we happen believe ourselves.
      Not everybody is willing to take the necessary time to try to understand what motivates others to believe something that seems so very different. Yet though it is obvious that we do have vast differences, what we do share in common, is a search for the truth.

      Could I suggest another site for you to investigate, as you are on your journey of understanding? You may find this one rather informative.

      God Bless Am.

  174. Hi Am
    Your question above about the death and statement “they will never die” deserves some discussion. God said to Adam that if you eat of this tree the same day you will die. During ages theologians have explained that it meant thousand years and Adam died before that age. Jesus’ teaching about death was very different. He said when calling His disciples “let the dead bury their deads but you follow me” For Jesus dead means a person whose spirit is separated from God. Adam proves this. When God arrived to His everyday visit to Eden Adam hid away because his spirit was separated from God. When people die today, if their spirit lives in communion with God, their spirit continues to live in communion with God even if their body dies.
    Evolutionists have also used the term that with Adam death became to world by stating that before Adam animals died. This is only ignorance about of knowing the meaning of death. Animals have soul but not the spirit which would be in connection with God. The word bara is used three times in three different purposes. At first material was created. Earth was without form, thus it was not a globe or anything which could be described with form, and void the word has plenty of different meanings, one of them means useless. To me this sounds like material particles created were in disorder untill God organized them. Secondly life was created and the third a man was created and God blew His spirit into man and thus man is very exceptional in all creation.
    The spirit in man differs from soul of animals. “Our spirit together with the Spirit of God proves that we are children of God”

    • Seppo,
      Thank you for your words, I do not think Am will respond any more.
      Their only real argument is to question the veracity of the Bible.

      Seppo? sounds Finnish?

  175. I guess you need to deep dive in to this matter:according to Muslims dajjal is Jew ( a born Jew ) and not christian. in other words anti Christ = dajjal.

    and as per my research this info is true…. a bit deep dive in to this matter will make it easier for you to accept this truth 🙂

    • hi jason

      WE know that Muslims think the antichrist is a Jew, because that is their mindset, that all evil comes from Jews.

      They would be surprised to find out that many Christians think the antichrist is a Muslim.

      The Jews, of course, have no opinion. They are just waiting for their Messiah.

  176. peace upon you all,

    tq for the story.

    we Muslim trust in god, that god is an only god. the almighty, the one and only and have no son. IT stand by its own.ALLAH

    We obey all His words. the true word that god Himself promise to protect it FROM any infection/alteration.AL-QURAN

    Did your god promise to protect the holy bible holiness?

    take your time, hear and learn Islam.

    • Dear Guardian

      I appreciate and respect the fact that you are devoted to your religion.

      Jesus called himself both the son of man, and the son of God. But you have to understand what he meant.

      His relationship with the Father God in heaven has nothing to do with a marriage, or a wife. It is a spiritual relationship, and one that we can have also, if we commit our hearts to God and accept Jesus for who He is and what he did for us.

      Jesus has also been given special authority and power by the Father, and we are expected to honor him for that, and look to him as our intercessor.

      The bible is protected, like Dru says, by the holy spirit, and those of us who have the holy spirit within us can testify that the bible is true.

      If you have questions about a verse that is not clear to you, I would be happy to make it clear.

      I will acknowledge that the catholic church has added some confusion to doctrine, and you are correct in objecting to the confusion. I can also answer these issues.

  177. Guardian
    As I mentioned to AM above, If you want to argue the theology of Islam vs. the theology of Christianity, from an equal footing, meaning both our bible and your quran are correct, then bring it on. But if you want to start the debate by saying that our bible is corrupted, then be gone. Only in a debate of equals will the truth of the bible be seen.
    If on the other hand, you are searching for what Christianity is all about, because your governments have repressed the message of Christianity, then we would be happy to answer your questions.

    As for the question of God protecting the Bible. It is the Holy Spirit, The comforter Christ talks about, that protects the holiness of the Bible, AKA The Spirit of Truth. I know that the Holy Spirit is protecting the scriptures, for he lives inside of me. The comforter was not the Mohammad.

    Peace be to you to and may the God of light shine his light upon you.

  178. Marianne – the other day i have posted this message on some blog:-

    I traveled many countries coz of my job demands. I was surprised to first hear and then to see that no matter I pick any quran in any country all their words, translations every thing is one and same.

    I am still intensively searching the root cause why its not with bible? why every edition of bible is different from other. JUST IN MY STATE TEXAS I HAVE SEEN 23 DIFFERENT BIBLES.
    After noticing this fact- i am having real hard time convincing others to enter Christianity.

    • dear Jason

      I do not believe you. I am only aware of 10 versions. and they all say the SAME thing. ALL content is the same. Here is one example:

      New American Standard Bible (©1995)
      In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

      GOD’S WORD® Translation (©1995)
      In the beginning the Word already existed. The Word was with God, and the Word was God.

      King James Bible
      In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

      Douay-Rheims Bible
      IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

      Darby Bible Translation
      In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

      English Revised Version
      In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

      Webster’s Bible Translation
      In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

      Weymouth New Testament
      In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

      World English Bible
      In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

      Young’s Literal Translation
      In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God;

      So where is the discrepancy?

      Answer, there is none.

      The problem with the Quran is that it is consistently inconsistent, and it has many passages that are theologically wrong.

      Allah gets confused and makes a lot of mistakes.

    • Jason Paul
      If i am not mistaken, didn’t various Imams add to the Haddith through the centuries, and only the latest translations are relavent?
      The different versions of the bible were made so as to make the language used by the bible more “readable” to modern people. They are all derived from the surviving Greek texts, some of which survive from the third century. The discovery of the dead sea scrolls also strengthened the position of the jewish scribes and early church transcribers accuracy. It is unheard of, this accuracy. The King James version was based on those existing documents. (greek septuagint if my memory serves me correctly)
      Quoting from my McCarthur study bible: “…There are over 5000 greek new testament manuscripts…A few existing fragments date back to within 20-25 years of the original writing. New Testament Scholars have generally concluded that 1. 99.99% of the original writings have been reclaimed, and 2) of the remaining one hundreth of one percent , there are no variants substantially affecting any Christian doctrine.” (pg xxi, How we got the bible) We also have these manuscripts to compare the translation to.

      There is an old schoolyard game where kids line up from one end of a room to another, and they pass a secret down the line to the end: Rarely is it that the original message matches with the final one. To have this incredible accuracy in the Bible shows that it has been divinely protected.

      • Hi dru

        Good explanation and defense.

        What Muslims fail to realize is that, since Muhammed was illiterate, he had no idea whether or not his scribes wrote what he dictated, or wrote something else.

        Therefore, the original was never proofread for accuracy.

        Their notes were only assembled much later, in random order.

        Much could have been added or taken away, and Muhammed would have never known.

    Eze 39:9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and make to eat out of existence the stuff that continues to eat
    out of existence, both the protecting stuff and the prickling stuff, the bending apparatuses and the piercing apparatuses, and the sticks that are holded
    in the hand, and the objects that are hurled, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:
    Eze 39:9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the chemicals, both the containers and the poison,
    the mobile launchers and the missiles, and the handguns, machine guns, rifles, sub-machine guns, and the grenades,
    and they shall burn them with fire seven years:

  180. As a Muslim I have to say you are wrong because may Christians think Muslims are not believers but Muslims like Christians and there are a book in Koran by the name of Maryam (Mary) and there is story about Jesus Prophet, saint Mary, Zechariah. Muslims believe Jesus as they believe Mohammad and Moses

    • Muslims state Jesus is not the word of G-d made flesh, and that he did not die, and rise from the dead holding the keys to heavem and earth. Muslims always ask how can G-d have a son.

      Islam, which means to submit, worhips one of 360 gods from the Kaaba called the god, or Sin, or Allah. Take your pick. Muhammad enjoyed murder, and rape. He is Islams perfect man.

      I realize the truth hurts, but it is better you read the true truth, not what some Imam tells you is the truth. Best of luck to you.

  181. Hy guys,

    i suggest you read : ” La bible , le Coran et la science” a book written by a french author

  182. Extremely informative! Thanks to all and God bless all here with the Truth. ❤

  183. hi. I’m peaceful Muslim. 3 Abrahamic religions which grew up in middle east : Judaism, Christianity and Islam share many things in common. for example like the first prophet (for us) Adam and his wife hawa (eve), Moses, lot, Jesus, and many more.

    we have our own perception about Jesus. As in Islam, Jesus is Prophet who was given miracle to heal the sick, people who blind, and even could make dead person became alive again with God’s power, and many more. For us, he was not crucified, but he was brought up to the sky, saved by God. And Judas Iscariot was replaced to be crucified. He will come one day and defeat what you call as Antichrist (Dajjal Almasih). Dajjal is such a great threat for all Muslim in the world, his saying will make anyone who pays attention to his will be his follower soon.

    I think u misunderstand about the true concept of Jihad : Jihad is divided into 2 groups. 1 Jihad Kubra : Ur struggle fighting againts hedonism, desire, anger, anything can get u into sin and alike.
    2. Jihad Sughra : struggle preventing ur self, or land, from any intruders and anyone want to colonize u.

    In islam there are 2 types of nonmuslims :
    1. kafir harbi : means nonmuslim who like to fight againts islam. They are not peaceful muslim. All struggles is needed to prevent the land from their raids.
    2. Kafir zimmi : means nonmuslim who lives with muslim. They are peaceful. They are treated like other citizens.

    dear leatherneck, hi first we have one GOD, not 360. we pray 5 times a day facing ka’bah. Doing crime is really prohibited in islam, even to nonmuslim. it’s silly when people blame Islam for anything but they don’t even know the true concept of Islam. :D…

    In Quranic verses, it’s said : To u be ur way, and to me mine. means u and i have different belief. we can’t mix it up. So u have ur religion to follow and so do i. 😀

    • I know you have one god. Muhammad made the god of the kabba the only god to worship. that is why he never had to explain who the god was. The moon god Sin is who Muhammad grew up worshiping.

      Islam is not a great religion. It is a political system, and a pagan religion as a way of life.

      May G-d the Father in Christ’s name help you.

  184. May you get hidayah and Allah bless you.

  185. You have certainly put a lot of work and thought into this essay. I feel, however, that this is about the coolest piece of pro Zionist propaganda I have yet encountered.

    The Gog spoken of in Esekiel, is in fact the Khazar. Just like at the time of Jesus, nobody wants to “see” the truth as it does not suit their agenda.

    The time of the big battle is fast approaching. In service of Satan, Gog will gather all the nations (Rev 20:8): Only the Khazar Zionists have the means to convince the western world of their cause.

    An honest look at the archives of history will show you your error. Math 24:24 warns:”if possible even the elect will be deceived”.

    They own 90% of all media and information sources and are in total control of the USA government (have been ever since Woodrow Wilson and Justice Louis Dembitz Brandeis).

    The land(Eze 38:14) that recovered from war was Palestine (after WW1) and was peaceful and lived without any problems.

    The Khazars who lived on the southern steppes of Russia converted to Babylonian Talmudism circa 900 AD.

    The Khazars have been a pain in the back of all of Europe before this; and ever since. They started communism as well as Zionism and caused two world wars and will also cause the third World war.

    During WW2 the Khazars (Ashkenazi Jews) have caused the death of millions of people, including innocent Jews. They did not give a hoot about how many true descendents of Israel(Jacob) died. They still do not give a hoot and that is why they have lured 6 million Jews to the Palestinian state called “Israel”.

    If the 6 million Jews in “Israel” somehow perish, the Khazars (Jews) will be happy to fleece the Arabs for a hundred years or more as they are now doing with Germany. They do not only rob the victim, they make him pay forever; just for trying to defend himself.

    The vast majority of the Jews in Israel are Khazars and have no right (religious or otherwise) to the land. Only the SEED of Abraham (Gen 12:7) are “Biblically” entitled: This includes the descendents of Ismail, Abraham’s eldest. If we assume that God’s word is forever, then the Khazars can’t change it.

    Gog/Magog Gen 10:2
    Togarmah: Eze_27:14; Gen_10:3; 1Ch_1:6; Dan_11:40-45, the 3rd son of Gomer, and grandson of JAPHET, his brothers being Ashkenaz and Riphath

    • sorry…derick..this is all BS

      otherwise known as anti-semitism

      the jews you criticize have died for their faith…that is enough proof to me of what they are.

      forget the media….get into the bible and find out the truth

  186. Marianne, Unfortunately you only know the propaganda and not history.. I am a Jew and I know how many have died for the “faith”. I am however a very strong anti-Zionist. What is happening in Palestine is a CRIME; fullstop.

    Wake up! The people of Israel are sitting ducks and the Bosses of Zionism do not care a hoot. They cared none during ww2 and they care nothing now. If you really care, get those sitting ducks out of Israel.

    Whether you are Jewish or Christian, you should wake up. Don’t be mislead and deceived by false Bible interpreters. Many warnings against false prophets are given in both the “Old” as well as the “New” Testament. I pray; please get informed.

    Unfortunately the word “Jew” has become so universal that it becomes difficult pointing out that the people who are of the true Jewish faith are also spattered with the crap that people like Herzl, Greenbaum, Weizmann and the whole gang promote.

    Just go study history and look how much trouble Jews had since the Khazars (Northern Turks)(Ashkenazis) arrived on the scene around 890 after Christ.

    What you are calling me is nothing new: I have been called Self Hating Jew, Neo-Nazi and many other bad smelling names.

    I further suspect that you did not read my comment fully. You might regard some as BS, but you should find much that you can use. So! Please tell me which part you regard as BS and we can converse.

    • however they got to be called jews, the bible says to love them. so that is what i do.

      remember, ruth was a convert. and she became the ancestor of king david.

      converts are allowed.

  187. Marianne
    I hope you love Christians also. There are Jews who uphold strictly Torah guidelines (laws) and there are “Jews” who call themselves Jews but uphold those laws prescribed by the Pharisees. The two are not the same. I will not bother you any further as I believe that you are honest. However please make a quantum leap with your studies. You wont go to “Hell” for loving Jews; after all, they are fellow humans. Just beware of their evil leaders who are deceiving them(and you).

    Tons of blessings to you and yours.

    • there are 2 groups in general of people

      good and bad

      we fit in one or the other

      God can work with the good ones,,, if they are wrong, they can be fixed.

      if they are bad, and will not change, he punishes or destroys them

  188. Amen!

  189. Hi Marianne, I know I promised not to bother you again, but I stumbled onto something educational. As I try to gently convince fellow Jews to beware of their non-believing leaders, I always pass things like this on. Please read this:

    • hi derick

      You are welcome to express your views, we do not always have to agree. Disagreement actually makes it more interesting and challenging.

      I will look at your link.

  190. All material is totally based on disinformation, Most of the analysis and information is totally wrong and you are just mis guiding people,

    Please fist learn about the topic then give your toughts , all through the topic it is clear that you not sure of anything,

    You have just waste my time ,

  191. There is no time wasted on this site. It is a place of educated discussion along with observations (and personal perceptions).

    If you had information to add to “educate” people here further with the facts you so possess, you should not have wasted your or “our” time in telling the group and then “leaving” with out supplying the information.

    Those that have the true information and fail to provide it to whom ever is searching for it are those that are misguiding people.

    Blessings and peace

  192. Hi,

    I was reading your article and I would like to clear your confusion. We (Muslims) believe that Islam is the only true religion and it is not Just apply to the followers of Muhammed but involve all the messengers and profits starting from Ibraheem all the way till Muhammed who confirmed in several occasions that he was sent to complete the message started with Ibraheem and all of these profits and messengers were advising of one true God. The God that we all worship.

    Therefore, Christians are in fact lost, believing in Jesus as a part of Three components together producing God and in another claim Jesus is the son of God.

    So, When the anti-Christ will arrive, he will cause the Fitna, which means People will be drugged to believe in him with all the miracles he will be able to perform and the most important thing, he will look exactly like Jesus, he will do all the Miracles that Jesus used to do (healing the sick…etc).

    But, he will claim he is Jesus and he is the son of God and he have returned to earth to save us. Then, Christians will believe in him. Simply, cause he matches their believe about Jesus.

    When the True Jesus will appear, he won’t be able to perform any Miracles and will confirm that he is never a son of God and he believe in Islam and the Message of Muhammed. then, Muslims will believe Him.. and will fight on his side the Christians (Who will then think they are fighting for Jesus, but in fact they have been following the Anti-Christ).

    Hope, that will clear your Confusion brother.

    • dear Ahmed

      I understand your perception of Christianity.

      The bible clearly says, which quotes Jesus and the apostles, that there is only one God, and that is the Father. And there is only one Lord, who is Jesus, who is the (spirit) son of God. The Father is creator, so he does not need a wife to create anything.

      Jesus existed in heaven with the Father as his son before he came to earth, so he has a divine nature, just like a prince has the royal nature of his father, the king, and just like you have the human nature or your father.

      many Christians do not read their bible, so they present you with the interpretations they have been taught, but not everything they have been taught is an accurate reflection of what is stated in the bible.

      So the Father is God. But Jesus is really his son, but in the way I described to you, and I can give you scriptures to back this up.

      I agree that many will be deceived by the antichrist. People of various religious backgrounds. this is because they do not know the truth, they listen to teachers, instead of getting the truth directly from God in reading the Word of God and from prayer.

      Only a remnant will be saved.

      I do hope that Muslims join the real Jesus when he comes.

      It is my hope that Muslims will see Jesus for who he is, and that he is the son of God.

      God is not schizophrenic. He does not have a split personality, divided into 3. The Father is God, but he really has someone he considers his son. that is their divine relationship.

      When Jesus returns, he will still have the ability to perform miracles, but that will not be his focus. He will return to fight the antichrist, and to bind him for a 1000 years before he is finally cast into hell.

      The world will be a better place when Jesus is finished with his final work.

      Finally, those that were enemies will now be friends, and live in peace.

  193. Hi
    Me, as a muslim I don’t think that Jesus will destroy his followers, he will destroy the anti-christ who says that he is Lord God. I will explain the theory of the Armageddon:
    1-The water of the Euphrates transforms to gold.
    2-The people will fight for the gold.
    3-The army of the ennemies will try to kill the leader of muslims ( Al Mahdi)
    4-This army will be swallowed by the earth.
    5-Muslims+Christians will fight the Djinns in the first Armageddon and beat them.
    6-The anti-christ appears
    7-Jesus comes back and kills him with a spear.
    8-Gog and Magog appear and be killed by “naghaf” (Worms that eat the human meat)
    9-Jesus rules the earth and dies.
    10-Al Mahdi rules the earth and dies.
    11-The sun rises from the west
    12-The truth animal
    13-The smoke
    14-The wind
    15-The wheaper
    16-The destruction of al kaaba
    17-The last fire
    18-God orders the angel Israffil (Raphaël) to blow the horn to destroy the planets.
    19-After that the humans will be all alive from adam to the last man on earth to be in heaven or in hell.

    • hi Salim

      In Christian theology, The Euphrates dries up and allows enemies to cross the river into a battle.

      If Jesus and the Mahdi both die, who is around to maintain peace?

      Also, in Christian theology, Gog ad Magog is destroyed by God, and satan is cast into the lake of fire.

      In Isaiah, it says that the Lord wil turn the world upside down, so having the sun arise in what is apparently the west, but is not, is actually plausible. At that time, the west will be east, and the east will be west.

  194. “Jesus rules the earth and dies.” The word of G-d made flesh will never die. His perfect human body died once for all sin, but being perfect his human body and Spirit of G-d lives forever.

    The Al Mahdi, if he exists, will be fully human body, and fully human spirit. Worshiping Sin at the kaaba, and following Muhammad.

    The Kaaba might be destroyed if another building gets blown up.

  195. Marianne,

    I understand the Christianity point of view, My GF is Christians and we always have discussions in this regards. The thing is Believe, its hard to obsolete the we we were brought up and the mosque and church education and learning’s we receive for all our lives. But, I believe a strong believe should be built only on sole experience and working out thing and study concepts. Cause believe me sometimes things doesn’t make sense.

    You know, Abraham the first prophet was sent out to human race. He have been struggling to believe that life and the world has been created by punch of statues and he start working out his mind and questions his people, he have been through a journey to discover god, and that’s when god show him the way just because he did his part and used his brain to justify what’s right and what’s not.

    May be if it wasn’t for his effort we would never had any prophets and we would have continue to miss out who we really are and why we are really here for.

    Therefore. I rediscovered my own religion myself and i am not to say i am a religious individual, i am more of scientific nature. I need logic and evidence to believe.

    So, could you explain to me that God the lord of heaven and universes is one then he is in fact three separate entities.. do you really think this make sense. I have never heard of any creature of any kind been sole and multiple entities at the same time. not to mention that when you take about god the almighty he is never been a creature.

    Second, why its only Christians who believe in Jesus been the son of God? if he was really god’s son. why would he hide him and never been mentioned in any time before Christianity appears and even with the appearance of Islam.

    I mean within your words, he seems so powerful to be mentioned just as Satan and why he have never been mentioned to Moses, Joseph..etc

    Third, the concept of having a son. Don’t you think that a son should be similar to the father kind..So, a father who is creator, can may be create him self a new creature and consider it son. but, in order to produce a real son, you might need gentles and a partner.. that’s what the nature teach us.which lead us to a god who is worried about being extinct so he is producing a son, which is totally not logical. back to the first assumption, God then created him self a son, like he did with Gabriel, Satan and even Adam.. all are created directly by god. in fact, everyone of us is carrying a blown soul from god. which without mothers would just give birth to dead bodies..(have you ever asked yourself where does the soul of the baby comes from, can an egg and a sperm create a soul, can material components create a soul?)

    that will make all of us in fact his sons..and could be said on angles and demons as well…because they are his creation.

    AND AGAIN, put the theory of the son into question..and the most important thing why god need a son anyway.. he is the lord.. if the universe has been as far as know today there for trillions of years then how long was god out there for and why would he need a son anyway..i say its the roman concept..the gods and the super human, half human and half god like Hercules,, its a legend.. in fact, Christianity you know today was formed in Rome years after Jesus disappeared and has nothing to do with out he was sent to deliver // to be continued

  196. // Jesus was a Jew.. yeah,, was sent to Jews..yeah but who are Jews? are they a they are a race..the sons of Israel.. the decedents of Israel.. so, who are you people, you are the followers of the roman Christianity and not even the real Jesus..

    Just please don’t be offend by what i said, in fact read it slowly and try to digest it and work out things, don’t you ever follow blindly what has been said in a church of a TV show.. think and ask why? and how and what if..then you will see things differently..

    PS: the bible stated that the earth was flat, some scientist lost their lives trying to prove it was a wrong statement..popes used to sell forgiveness and heaven tickets to poor people in Europe in middle ages.. it was vast know late on as the biggest corruption scandal..not to mention sexual abuse..we hear about every now and then..

    a question i will ask you that i have asked many Christians including my GF, what do you know about Islam? did you ever read qur’an..try it may be you could understand others better.and at the end of the day we don’t really need a another Muslim.. we are a lot nowadays..we just aim to make other good people like yourself understand us better and may be see the truth we are seeing..

    Ps II: Moses has brought someone back to life from death and split the red sea with his stick doesn’t that’s sounds like god like abilities.. I Guess not because god who created the universe will never go down to earth to save some creatures make of mud.. if we won’t believe in him. we lose he won’t he can create another nation even better than us if he wills.

    May god lead you to the Right Path

    • “May god lead you to the Right Path” Which god? The god of the Kaaba, or the G-d of Moses who parted the Red Sea for the Jews?

      Where does the Bible state the earth is flat?

      The Jews are a people born to Abraham, Issac, and Jacop who made an agreement with G-d the Father to carry his message to the world. The Jews failed, but G-d keeps his agreements.

      What humans do in the name of Christianty may not be what G-d has ordered. Therefore, it is sinful to sell tickets to heaven, and sinful to molest children like Muhammad.

      There appears to be an understanding by Christianty that G-d the Father has three parts. The Father G-d, the Word, and the Holy Spirit. It is also understood that the word of G-d is that which G-d used to make Heaven, and earth. The Holy Spirit enters into humans to help them make the right desisions in life.

      The word made flesh is G-d entering this world to live a perfect life, be murdered as a perfect sacrifice for human sin, and rise from the dead to be that which G-d sees humans through. Otherwise, humans get weighed by the law, and will have to be perfect to make it to Heaven.

      Will you be weighed by the law claiming your good works as reason to enter Heaven, or will you accept the love of G-d who died for you so you would not have to be perfect?

      Choose wisely.

    • dear Ahmed

      If you have a GF who is dating you, then she is not a real Christian. I am guessing a Catholic? A real believer would not abandon their faith to join with an unbeliever.

      (1) I repeat my earlier answer to you regarding the nature of God.

      I understand your perception of Christianity.

      The bible clearly says, which quotes Jesus and the apostles, that there is only one God, and that is the Father. And there is only one Lord, who is Jesus, who is the (spirit) son of God. The Father is creator, so he does not need a wife to create anything.

      Jesus existed in heaven with the Father as his son before he came to earth, so he has a divine nature, just like a prince has the royal nature of his father, the king, and just like you have the human nature or your father.

      many Christians do not read their bible, so they present you with the interpretations they have been taught, but not everything they have been taught is an accurate reflection of what is stated in the bible.

      So the Father is God. But Jesus is really his son, but in the way I described to you, and I can give you scriptures to back this up.

      I agree that many will be deceived by the antichrist. People of various religious backgrounds. this is because they do not know the truth, they listen to teachers, instead of getting the truth directly from God in reading the Word of God and from prayer.

      Only a remnant will be saved.

      I do hope that Muslims join the real Jesus when he comes.
      It is my hope that Muslims will see Jesus for who he is, and that he is the son of God.

      God is not schizophrenic. He does not have a split personality, divided into 3. The Father is God, but he really has someone he considers his son. that is their divine relationship.

      When Jesus returns, he will still have the ability to perform miracles, but that will not be his focus. He will return to fight the antichrist, and to bind him for a 1000 years before he is finally cast into hell.

      The world will be a better place when Jesus is finished with his final work.
      Finally, those that were enemies will now be friends, and live in peace.

      (2) existence of Jesus before 30 AD and after.

      there are biblical accounts of him showing up. He did not go by that name Jesus at that time.

      examples – he was in the Lions’ den with daniel to save him from harm

      he was in the fiery furnace with the 3 hebrews to save them from death also.

      He appears to people now.

      Jesus comes as the Father God directs him.

      (3) Yes the Father God shares his divine nature with the son.

      Physically we are all sons and daughters, because we are his creation.

      But only those who are his children spiritually will go to heaven.

      Only the good will go, not the wicked.

      God does not NEED a son…..he HAS one because it is his desire.

      He does not NEED any of us either…..but he HAS us too.

  197. Iran is threating to block the stright of Harmuz, and America has four Aircraft carrier groups in the Persian Sea, plus mine sweepers form America, France, and Germany. Israel has navy ships in the Indian ocean close to Iran’s east flank.

    The banks from America, France, Holland, and Germany have stopped dealings with Iran, and the Arab Emerits have stopped dealing in Rauls making it had for Iran to deal in currency.

    The global government is using economics to stop Iran. Just as they will someday use economics to force all humans to go along with an agenda. Knowone expects Iran to sit by, and take it.

    DaOne signed the martial law order on the 16th. It appears to me to be an updated version for hostal attacks on American soil.

    If you thought gas was high now…

  198. It would be better if:

    – Jehovah’s Witness (Deny Jesus is Lord)
    – Islam (Believe “Moon God” Allah is God of Israel/ Muhammad a prophet who gave the koran around 600 a.d.)
    – Catholic (Deception: Worship Mary (Semiramis/ Madonna/ Ashtaroth) Jesus (Nimrod/ Baal, Pope (Caesar/ False Prophet), so-called “saints” (St. Stephen, St. Valentine, St. Patrick, St. Nicoles, Mother Church (false church)
    – Mormons (Occult Teachings/ i.e. God was once a man who became God; Joseph Smith (false prophet, and involved in Masonary)
    – Ignorant Jews (I mean those that don’t know Jesus is Lord/ ignore New Testament)
    – Atheists (deny there is a God)
    – Agonists (believe something else is God)
    – New Age (involved with other cult religions like Hinduism, Buddhism, and witchcraft (astrology, soothsayers, paganism)
    – Other religions (Listed in New age, but some more: evolution, big bang, or religions that teach they are compatible to The Bible: Catholic)

    — would change and actually pay *close* attention to their teachings before the “catching of the church”. The scriptures are what believers are to follow literally like 6 Day Creation, but people are just listening to how anyone might interpreted it (from God or not). Test the spirits like John says to see from God, and trust not your own understanding.

    Thanks to those who fight for the truth of God, though.

  199. Muslims do not think that Jesus (may God’s peace and blessings be upon him) will kill the Christians upon his return. Not once have i come across any such reference. It could be possible that a minority of christians will be led to follow the dajjal or antichrist on account of his trials and deceptions, but the majority of the anti-christ’s followers will definitely be Jews and (i speculate) pagans.. What he will destroy, will be as the narration mentions ‘the cross’, meaning the attribution of divinity to Jesus and the idea of the trinity. He will follow the pure monotheism that was brought with islam and will follow the Shariah (laws) of the last and final messenger. i.e. Muhammad (may God’s peace and blessings be upon him).

    • Haroon

      Jesus will show Muslims his wounds, where he was crucified, when he returns.

      If you want a discussion of the trinity, I can help there.

      But for a start, read the book of John, where Jesus describes his relationship with the Father. That should answer all questions.

      We hear claims of different religions about who jesus was.

      Read what he said about himself.

      • Marianne,

        I was replying to the doubt you had on your post:

        “Curious Note:

        It is so odd to me, that the Christians think of the Muslims as unbelievers, and the Muslims think of Christians as the unbelievers. It amazes me that the Muslims think that Jesus would destroy the Christians, his own followers.”

        The concept of divinity to Jesus and trinity is altogether a different topic. However I think some of the muslims here have explained enough for you to understand the truth. It is truly God Who Guides Whom He Wills.

        May God Guide those who intend to seek His Pleasure. Ameen.


        • Haroon

          Muslims have some things right and some things wrong.

          I can say the same for Christians.

          That is why I said to read the book of John, where Jesus explains who he is, and his relationship to the father in heaven.

          The traditional doctrine of the trinity is not there. But the presence of the Father God, his heavenly son Jesus, and the holy spirit are explained. So it explains who is God, and how all 3 tie together, but they are not the same or equal, according to Jesus. The trinity doctrine says they are all equal, but Jesus said his father was greater than he was. However, who is divine is also clear.

    • Islam worships one god now, but during Muhammad’s life time there was 360 gods at the Kaaba. Muhammad made the god, also known as Allah in Arabic the only god to worship. The god is known to history as Sin the moon god.

      Muhammad who could not read or write heard voices in a cave. As he raided caravans, took slaves, and raped, he live Islam to it’s fullest. Anyone who is not Muslim, if you follow Muhammad, must be waged war on. If you do not, then you are Apostate, and need another religion.

      Abraham was never close to the kaaba, and G-d made Ishmail with his hand against everyone, and everyone aganist him. Just like how Islam is at war with the world in the name of it’s god who can not protect it’self.

      The word made flesh, was born of a virgin, lived a perfect life, was murdered for human sin, and rose from the dead to sit at the right hand of G-d the Father. Known as Jesus to the world. Islam does not believe in this stated Jesus, they believe in another Jesus that was not murdered on the cross.

      Knowone comes to the Father except through me said Jesus.

      • Leatherneck,

        I am a follower of Islam and I tell you that Allah is not a moon God. I have more right to talk about my religion than you do. If you still wish to disagree then produce your proof if you are truthful. Read this biography of the prophet called “The Sealed Nectar”. It is the most authentic biography available. Also visit this website.

        Thanks and Peace

  200. Hello, Neat post. There is a problem with your web site in internet explorer, may check this? IE still is the marketplace chief and a huge component of folks will miss your magnificent writing because of this problem.

  201. When you write some thing about another religion, please do justice and quote the original scripture.

    If Gog and Magog are Muslims why then Quran talks to Muslims and tell them that;

    “On that day We shall leave them to surge like waves on one another: the trumpet will be blown, and We shall collect them all together..(.Quran Chapter 18 Verse 99)

    Until, when Ya’juj and Ma’juj (Gog and MaGog) are let loose (from their barrier), and they swoop down from every mound. (Quran Chapter 21 Verse 19)

    They said: “O Zul-qarnain! the Gog and MaGog (People) do great mischief on earth: shall we then render thee tribute in order that thou mightest erect a barrier between us and them?
    ( Quran Chapter 18, Verse 94)

    WHO IS DAJJAL? (According to Muslims)
    Muslims do not think of Christian as “Dajjal” (anti Christ) there is no Islamic scripture that talks about Dajjal as being Christian.

    The Quran does not mention or even gives a slightest hint about Dajjal.

    Tradition or saying of Prophet Muhammad also known as Hadith briefly mention Dajjal as a man with curly redish hair and light complexion.

    You can find this type of people in most places including Iran, Pakistan, and of course western countries.



    As per Quran: Jesus will return before the endtime…
    Behold! Allah said: “O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute. (Quran Chpater 3 Verse 35)

    That they said (in boast), “We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
    ( Quran, Chapter #4, Verse #157)
    And (Jesus) shall be a Sign (for the coming of) the Hour (of Judgment): therefore have no doubt about the (Hour), but follow ye Me: this is a Straight Way.
    ( Quran Chapter #43, Verse #61)

    There is no reference or mention of Mahdi in Quran.

    Could there be a religious leader among Muslims when Jesus returns?
    Yes!!! it is a possibility.

    GOG and MAGOG

    Quran mention them to be confined behind the high mountains…
    Possible location of them is around Russia / Balkans
    Gog and Magoog will fight among themselves this is also fore told in Quran.

    • hello atif98

      I would agree that Russia and Western Europe would most likely be involved in the invasion of Gog and Magog.

      Currently Russia is ready, but Western Europe always seems to resist involvement in anything. It is not interested in Israel. So Western Europe is not ready, and something would have to change.

      Turkey is ready. And it will be involved, since Gog and Magog scripture refer to ancient tribes located there.

      Islamic nations, in general, are hostile toward Israel, but I cannot say they all will be involved in an invasion.

      There may be some Muslim nations that resist the invasion and fight against it.

      This is because war is destructive, and many are wise to understand that.

      The Quran, you say, does not mention a Mahdi, and neither does the bible.

      One thing the Mahdi and the antichrist has in common is that they rule for 7 years. So this makes some believe that they are the same person.

      Otherwise, there is no proof that they are the same person.

      It is my hope that many will fight the antichrist ( Dajjal) for the salvation of their souls.

      The bible does mention that the antichrist will be disturbed when he hear news of the kings of the east, who are coming against him. He only rules part of the world, not all of it. Many have thought that this referred to China, but many Islamic countries are also east of Israel.

      So, I hope the Islamic nations do fight against the true antichrist, and are not deceived by him, thinking he is a man of peace, or war, and pick the wrong man to fight. This would be a disaster, to misinterpret the signs, and attack the wrong person.

      As I say, war is destructive, and many would be killed in a big mistake.

    • The Jesus in the koran was not murdered for human sin, and rose from the dead. The Bible states Jesus was murdered for human sin, and rose from the dead. As this is a Christian website, what do you think most of the people here believe?

      A correct history book shows the god, or Allah in Arabic to be the god Sin. One of 360 gods at the Kaabba. Where the black rock will take away your sin. The god Sin is known through out history as the moon god. It was once known as Tammuze after Nimrod’s wife, and mother gave birth to him.

      In a correct history book Muhammad raided, murdered, and raped most of his adult life. That is the perfect man Islam follows.

  202. Hypothetically… if there exists an ordinary man who was wondering in his dreamy mind if he might be the mahdi, what would you advise him to do about such thoughts?

    • dear Wassim

      Each person in life has the choice between good and evil, action and inaction.

      I would advise anyone who has any dream to aspire in this world to choose the good, to reject evil, to honor God, to be kind and good to others, to be fair and just, and to put goodness into action.

  203. jews will follow the antichrist who he is the one-eyed person who will come before gog and magog , and the jews with freemasonry and temple knights all of them build the unity for the one-eyed man, this unity is called illuminati. and they r controling the usa and europe and most of countries and they r controling the economy , media , hollywood etc.
    they prepare for their man who is the one-eyed , he will be their king and the trying to build his temple in Palestine this man is ANTICHRIST.

    • Just wanted to clarify this “anti” business… the “AntiChrist” is not really “anti” (ie. against or opposing) Jesus himself or most of Christianity per say. He’s anti the deification of Jesus as the “son of God” (a fabrication of the church for political reasons), and with the “shirk” (muslim term for partnership) of Jesus with God in the trinity of orthodox Christianity (which was retained rather than redressed by the Catholic branch). The role of Jesus as a Jewish Rabbi who was willingly sacrificed (he and Judas knew what they were doing) to spare the Jews another catastrophe at a critical point in their history, is definitely respected and admired by the “antichrist”. The “antichrist” will also side with the Jews, just as they will side with him, since his attitude towards Jesus is purely fact-based. The fact is Jesus did not fullfill the prophecies for messiah recognition according to Maimonides, and this is accepted by 99.99% of Jews. Jesus was a lovely man, a special man, but to direct your worship to him rather than his master is wishful thinking intended to delude the worshipper into believing that a homosapien can become God himself. This is the true God Delusion. God is so difficult to understand, it’s not the ubermensch, it’s not the enlightened Bhudda reincarnated, it’s not mother nature, and it certainly isn’t a virgin mother or a claimed miraculously born flawless homosapien. It may be that the Star Wars’ “force” (ie. Luke, use the force) is a closer description than either of those. BTW, the 3rd world war has already begun, it is a war of ideas where only truth and reason can possiblly prevail. There are no alternatives I’m afraid. The real jihad is the struggle each individual will go through to understand and piece it all together, and they will have to overcome their individual bias to the religion they were brought up with and whatever brainwashing has occurred due to uncontrollable circumstances such as where an individual is born and the society they were brought up in. Each of us will struggle to comprehend, to see the light, and to be finally emancipated from what we *think* is “knowledge of good and evil”. An innocent heart and reasonable mind will struggle less than a jilted lover. The new age will be upon us sooner than we think, and in the end, most of Jesus’s teachings will still hold true to many people, but Islam will be vindicated in its monotheistic stance, and Rabbinical Judaism will become the only source of spiritual growth and further understanding of whatever God is (we still haven’t really worked it out – but we’ll keep trying because it enriches our lives more than any other persuit, bar none). Bless you all, although blessings only come from the Almighty and me saying so doesn’t mean it will happen. It kind of depends on your individual attitude.

      • hello Wassim

        The antichrist is a false christ, according to bible definition. Unless he is Jesus himself, he is not Christ.

        Jesus sacrificed himself for the sins of mankind. Jesus could have had angels rescue him if he wanted.

        Judas was evil, and Jesus said so at the end.

        The death of jesus was not a noble plot between the two of them. that is fiction introduced in a book published in the past 10 years. I forgot the name of the book.

        There IS a Father God, who is God. And there is a Son of God, and a holy spirit who obey and honor the Father in what they do. JEsus existed in heavenly form before he came to earth, in human form. He came to do the will of his Father God in heaven.

        Trinity means equal. Jesus said his father was greater than he was, so he is not equal, but submissive to someone greater.

        However, again, he did have a heavenly nature, and this nature needs to be recognized. Also because of his self sacrifice, the Father God expects him honored on this earth. We are to pray to the Father God, but in the name of Jesus, if we are to have our prayers answered.

        Our salvation is not mental, and cannot be attained by the achievement of some ideal concept.

        Our salvation is only through forgiveness of sins, and turning away from sins, and accepting what Jesus did for us – He took the punishment we deserved for our sins.

        All sins have to be punished, according to the justice and holiness of God.

        every person has sinned.

        We either face our own punishment, or accept the substitute punishment Jesus took on our behalf.

        I can understand the confusion the catholic church introduced. I am not catholic.

        Jews missed the point. They also do not believe in hell, so they are not concerned with salvation. They think, like many others, that “good deeds” will save them. The bible says our good deeds cannot cancel the eternal punishment for our sins, because we keep sinning, and our good deeds are contaminated with our bad deeds and sinful nature. Our good deeds are not pure and holy. They are based on a rejected of God’s will and we want to control god’s will with our own decisions.

        • Goodness gracious me, you believe that Marianne? I guess muslims aren’t the only who suffer from some brainwashing!

          “Unless he is Jesus himself, he is not Christ”
          That’s the xtian perspective (ie. not authentic and tainted by political interference). I remind you that the “Christ” is a xtian appropriation of the Jewish “Messiah”. But since the xtian definition doesn’t correlate with the messiah of the Old Testament, you can hardly claim that the New Testament is devinely inspired by the same God, so perhaps the New Testament speaks of a different God which is but one of the problems with xtianity’s claim to being an Abrahamic faith or monotheistic for that matter. Many problems ahead for xtianity’s credibility unless you’re prepared to let go of that dogma you cling to.

          “Jesus sacrificed himself for the sins of mankind. Jesus could have had angels rescue him if he wanted.”

          Speak for yourself, I haven’t sinned at all (making mistakes is natural as it facilitates learning and spiritual growth), and I don’t recognise sin (only deeds), and I reject “Jesus dying for me” and the guilt that tries to impart upon me, and your belief in angels is childish at best (unlike Oprah’s Angel Network which is far more grounded in reality).

          “Judas was evil, and Jesus said so at the end.”

          Jesus never said so. Jesus said “they know not what they do”, but he wasn’t referring to Judas. Again, the dogma you cling to (and it seems you like to interpret the bible literally as well ! ) is preventing you from “reading between the lines”. If Jesus was God (or part of) then why did he allow Judas to be one of his disciples if he was evil as you say. Don’t you believe Jesus can see into the hearts of men? You are contradicting your own beliefs. Judas and Jesus conspired to spare the Jewish population “is it not better that one man die than a whole people”?

          “The death of jesus was not a noble plot between the two of them. that is fiction introduced in a book published in the past 10 years. I forgot the name of the book.”

          I worked it out myself when I first watched “King of Kings” (the Nicholas Ray version that was released in 1961 – much more than 10 years ago). Don’t bother trying to remember the name of that book. The truth is clear enough for anyone who wishes to read between the lines. But that’s what religion is for, to separate the worthy from the unworthy. The worthy look for deeper truths, while the masses cling to fairytales and prefer to be told everything in plain terms rather than having to exercise their brains and actually *think* about it.

          “There IS a Father God, who is God. And there is a Son of God, and a holy spirit who obey and honor the Father in what they do. JEsus existed in heavenly form before he came to earth, in human form. He came to do the will of his Father God in heaven.”

          My goodness gracious me, this is more dogma than they teach in the madrasas of Pakistan! Wake up love.

          “Trinity means equal. Jesus said his father was greater than he was, so he is not equal, but submissive to someone greater. ”

          No, “Trinity” does NOT mean equal. “Trinity” means “3 related things as 1 thing”. Indeed there certainly is something greater than Jesus, and that is obviously God (not his biological father). I know people were susceptible to believing myths 2000 years ago, but you sound like you actually believe in the virgin birth when it has been proven that this came about as a result of a mistranslation of the word “maiden” in Hebrew when the Septuagint (the oldest Greek bible) was first produced. “Maiden” was mistranslated to “virgin”, either deliberately to deify Jesus or accidentally which proves the Greek text is not devinely inspired (not as much as the original Hebrew text at least). Come on Marianne, come into the 21st century. Jesus said “I am the light and the way”, so by investigating (not simply swallowing myths whole) the life of Jesus you will find the truth which will set you free. “And none shall pass to the father except through me”, that means none will be worthy of truth without investigating the life of Jesus. You are allowed to draw conclusions from existing literature, but also from the lack of some other literature. Please consider why no writings of Jesus exist, and why “Jesus” is not mentioned by any historian around 2000 years ago. You can’t escape the need to *think*.

          “However, again, he did have a heavenly nature, and this nature needs to be recognized. Also because of his self sacrifice, the Father God expects him honored on this earth. We are to pray to the Father God, but in the name of Jesus, if we are to have our prayers answered. ”

          Nonsense, South America is full of Catholics who believe this nonsense and pray very often, yet hardly any of their prayers are ever answered. They are riddled with struggling economies, pacifist cultures based around sport and dancing and drinking alcohol, massive poverty, and HIV and orphaned children around every corner. If they are praying to God, then he’s not reponding favourably is he! Perhaps they are praying to a non-God, that would make sense. Either way, regardless of prayer, it’s clear that the xtian value system is problematic at least. That’s what you get when you fall for the myth that you can simply confess to a priest without changing your ways and all you sins will be forgiven! I can’t believe there are still people who buy this nonsense.

          Also, “Father God” and “Jesus”… do you realise that if you lose your claim to being an Abrahamic monotheistic religion you’ll have less credibility than Scientology! “God” is “God”, “I am what I am”, that’s it. Isn’t it more “crazy” than believing in God, to also think that a homosapien can become “part of God”. There are psychiatric institutions full of such people. The only thing I can imagine to be more dangerous than a blind believer (eg a Muslim fundamentalist) is a blind believer who believes they are part of God (eg. Xtian fundamentalist).

          Jesus’s “heavenly nature” is the result of him being Jewish, having a Jewish upbringing, growing up in Jewish culture, and being a basic level Jewish Rabbi who also spent time in India learning from Buddhists. No wonder he was such a nice guy, he didn’t spend his time playing video games or hanging out at the local shopping mall.

          “Our salvation is not mental, and cannot be attained by the achievement of some ideal concept.”

          The opposite is the truth. The whole of idea of “salvation” is a concept that can only exist in the mind of someone who believes they need to be saved.

          You sound like you believe the way the Shiaites whip their own backs until they draw blood is a way to salvation as opposed to learning and thorough investigative research into the nature, history and contentions of religious belief systems. What do you think is the reason why religions exist in the first place?

          “Our salvation is only through forgiveness of sins, and turning away from sins, and accepting what Jesus did for us – He took the punishment we deserved for our sins.”

          Good God, more dogma… truly Islam has more credibility than this nonsense. Do you *think* Cinderella forgot her slipper on purpose? Do you *think* at all?

          “All sins have to be punished, according to the justice and holiness of God.”

          More nonsense. Good deeds create a positive atmosphere in society, whereas bad deeds create resentment between its constituents. God is neither punishing, nor rewarding any of us, the theory is that God created a self regulating system. The system of life automatically arranges “consequences” for our “actions” which are a result of our “choices”.

          “Every person has sinned”

          I haven’t, and neither did Jesus. I wish the church would speak for itself, but maybe that’s the whole reason for its existence 🙂

          “We either face our own punishment, or accept the substitute punishment Jesus took on our behalf. ”

          As if there is a choice in the matter! Consequences exist for everything. You can try to evade the consequences, or mitigate their impact, but that won’t work most of the time. “Passing the buck” onto Jesus is another childish idea that simply implies the refusal to learn from one’s mistakes or even to have the conscience to accept some responsibility, and even so the consequences are mostly unavoidable regardless of you accepting Jesus taking it on your behalf. Have you tried robbing a bank or hurting an animal and letting Jesus take the punishment for you? No, you don’t really believe that nonsense anyway, it’s just that your stuck in that literal interpretation dogma swallowing mode. Only you can choose to emancipate yourself, and nobody can do it for you. If you want to be worthy, *you* have to step up to the plate.

          “I can understand the confusion the catholic church introduced. I am not catholic. ”

          It’s not “confusion”, it’s deliberate political manouvering. Remember that the Roman Catholic Church is the leftover remnants of the old Roman Empire. Since the realised that Xtianity would ultimately defeat their tyrannical rule, they decided to take it for themselves and make it profitable. At one stage they were actually SELLING CERTIFICATES to enter heaven!!! Today the Vatican has a better economy than 80% of the world’s countries. They’re heavily invested in petroleum, so they love the price of oil going up whenever there is trouble in the Middle East. They don’t mind the muslims fighting each other while the price of oil keeps rising. Even “peak oil” is unsubstantiated yet convenient to raise the price further.

          I never insinuated you were Catholic. Please don’t feel the need to defend yourself to me. Who you are is none of my business or my concern. To me, you are just “Marianne”, a concerned religious person in the 21st century. I think there are many people like you Marianne, rest assured you are not alone in your *mental* struggle (ie. jihad) to comprehend what is happening around us.

          “Jews missed the point. ”

          Sorry, but this is unacceptable. The “Messiah” (you understand it as “Christ”) is a Jewish concept borne out of their traditions and their literature and their history and their unique relationship with God. The “Messiah”, that is the Jewish Messiah, is a matter for the Jews to decide for themselves. To try to impose a messiah upon them is simply another way that Gentiles have tried to conquer them. They will never be conquered. Not as long as they remain true to their Torah. And Jesus did not accomplish the requirements for Messiah status. I think everyone has missed the point, except the Jews, would be more accurate than claiming that the Jews missed the point. If the Jews don’t agree, then that point falls outside of monotheism and Abrahamic religious belief altogether. What gives anyone the right to take their Torah and pretend to know it better than they? Why not plant your own tree rather than taking someone else’s and trying to turn it into a vine. If it’s wine you seek, then you have no business messing with the olive tree.

          “They also do not believe in hell, so they are not concerned with salvation. They think, like many others, that “good deeds” will save them. ”

          I don’t believe in the common conception of hell either. I think the real hell would be living in a world that lacks any reason. A world where things happen mysteriously and things are done without just cause, and where the acceptance of dogma is preferred to the study of causality and the application of logic and reason.

          I too am not concerned with salvation. I accept the reality I exist in and I’m not buying into fanciful notions of the afterlife. Let those who need salvation try to find it, I found mine by realising I didn’t need it in the first place. When you realise what you have and become aware and appreciative of it, you won’t have the time to worry about an afterlife. The best we have is “NOW, the moment in which we KNOW that WE exist”.

          No, Jews don’t believe that good deeds will save them, they reject the need for salvation altogether. Good deeds are encouraged in order to improve our world.

          “The bible says our good deeds cannot cancel the eternal punishment for our sins, because we keep sinning, and our good deeds are contaminated with our bad deeds and sinful nature. Our good deeds are not pure and holy. They are based on a rejected of God’s will and we want to control god’s will with our own decisions.”

          No, that’s not the “bible”, that’s the New Testament section (the one that is not authentic and tainted with political interference and hidden agendas).

          “Eternal punishment”? Well surely if you don’t wake from your fairytale believing ways, you will surely make mistakes repeatedly until your time is up (but that’s not eternal either – don’t tell me you believe you’re immortal too).

          “because we keep sinning”? only those of us who don’t learn from past mistakes. But if we cease one type of sin but still practice some others, then that is also an improvement. At least you’ve eliminated one type of sin! Undoubtedly the “punishment” (I prefer “consequences”) of a person who makes 4 types of sins will be worse than that of a person who makes only 3 types of sin.

          “sinful nature”? talk about low expectations in the Xtian world! No wonder there is so much cancer, most have accepted being condemned to mediocrity and many aren’t interested in rising above this glass ceiling that’s been placed over you by fellow men. When did Jesus teach you that you have a sinful nature? That’s church made nonsense designed to keep you down, somewhere far below your true potential. And you give these people money? The last thing they need is more money! 🙂

          Bless you Marianne, please continue your search for enlightenment, it is worthy of your efforts. All the best. 🙂

    • 90% of the world will follow the antichrist. that includes muslims.

      whether he has one eye or two remains to be seen.

      • “One-eyed” is meant to be understood METAPHORICALLY!!! Do you people actually believe there was a real humpty dumpty who fell off a real wall and then some real kings’ men and real kings’ horses tried to put him back together again… really?

        We’re in deep trouble if literal interpretation is all we can do!

        • what is its metaphorical meaning?

          one eye could mean

          only one physical eye

          one who sees with half the vision he should have

          the third eye, conceived by mystics

          single vision, more clarity of perception.

  204. So Marianne, when Jesus returns (according to your *belief*) will he have the same holes in his hands and feet and will he still be the same Jewish Rabbi, or are you open to other possibilities?

    • hi wassim

      yes he will sill have the holes. he will still be himself.

      But of course, the holes will not bother him. he will be in a glorified body, having come from heaven..

      to those who are willing to at least consider the possibility, I would say why not just wait, and see what happens?

      if I am wrong, then you are right.

      If i am right, then you are wrong. 🙂

      • There is less than 300 years left till the deadline. The Muslims are expecting the Mahdi. The Christians are expecting Jesus (with holes in the palms and feet and Rabbinical qualification certificate)… and the Jews are expecting an ordinary human being. My money is on the Jews, but I’ll wait as long as my body will hold out. I’m not holding my breath though. 🙂

  205. I think the world will exist forever, and these myths will be replaced by new ones (eg. Climate Change, world food supply shortages, democracy being “by the people for the people”). HIStory is a never ending story. God is beautiful, God is eternal. I love God, I hate man-made myths.

    • well, why don’t you just take a wait and see approach?

      the bible say this is a world “without end.”

      but it also says there will be a lot of destruction, and god will re-make it into the beautiful world he first created, before man ruined it with his inventions and evil and exploitation.

      • I suppose I have no choice but to wait for things that are beyond my sphere of influence, but the rest I will determine for myself.

        In my eyes and in my mind, the world has already been recreated and revealed anew. I don’t rely on God to do for me what I can do myself. It’s my God-given right of self-determination.


    No. 1708 | FEBRUARY 6, 2008

    Palestinian Cleric Issa Badwan: The Mahdi Was Born in Palestine Four Years… Ago; Muslim Conquest of Rome Is Imminent

    Following are excerpts from an interview with Palestinian cleric Issa Badwan, which aired on Al-Aqsa TV on February 6, 2008.

    Issa Badwan: Someone who is well known and whom I trust – there is no need to mention his name – told me that four years ago, when he was driving his car, he saw an old woman, who stopped him and asked him to take her to hospital, so she could pick up her daughter, who had just given birth. He did her a favor and took her there, and waited for an hour at the entrance. The woman came out, with her daughter and grandson, and when they got into the car, the baby started talking, and said: “Peace and Allah’s mercy upon you.” They greeted him back.

    Interviewer: The newborn baby?

    Issa Badwan: Yes, the baby. The baby said… This is what the man told me, and we reported this to Sheik Nizar and to the Islamic Scholars Association… The newborn baby said: “I am the man who will be killed [sic] by the Antichrist, who will not rule over anyone again.” According to the Prophet’s hadith, this man [the Mahdi] would be 18-20 years old. These are good tidings.

    Of course, the coming of the Antichrist will be preceded by the conquests of Rome in Italy, and Constantinople, like the Prophet told us. These places will be conquered only by the righteous Mahdi. The Mahdi is from Palestine, as conveyed by Mu’adh bin Jabal, Sa’d bin Abi Waqqas, and Abdullah bin Mas’ud, who were all great imams and scholars.

    Interviewer: Is anyone following what�s going on with this child?

    Issa Badwan: Yes, now his identity is known, and the brothers follow and take good care of him. I would like to convey to the people, as well as to the scholars, that these are times of victory, with the grace of Allah, that the promised Mahdi lives among us, that the people of Palestine will be the standard bearers, who will carry this religion forth and spread its guidance and light.

    people, as well as to the scholars, that these are times of victory, with the grace of Allah, that the promised Mahdi lives among us, that the people of Palestine will be the standard bearers, who will carry this religion forth and spread its guidance and light.

    No 1708 | 6 FEBRUARI 2008


    Berikut adalah kutipan dari sebuah WAWANCARA DENGAN ULAMA PALESTINA Syeikh Issa Badwan, yang DISIARKAN AL-AQSA TV pada tanggal 6 FEBRUARI 2008.

    Syeikh Issa Badwan: SESEORANG YANG TERKENAL dan YANG SAYA PERCAYA – tidak perlu menyebutkan namanya – MENGATAKAN KEPADA SAYA bahwa EMPAT TAHUN YANG LALU ( Tahun 2004 ), ketika ia sedang mengendarai mobilnya, ia melihat seorang perempuan tua, yang menghentikannya dan memintanya untuk membawanya ke rumah sakit, untuk menjemput melihat putrinya yang baru saja melahirkan. Dia setuju dan membawa wanita itu ke Rumah Sakit, dan MENUNGGU SELAMA SATU JAM DI PINTU MASUK. Tak lama kemudian wanita itu keluar, dengan putri dan cucunya, dan ketika mereka masuk ke mobil, TIBA-TIBA BAYI ITU BERBICARA, dan berkata: “. ASSALAAMU ‘ALAIKUM WARAHMATULLAAHI WABAROKAATUH”. Seketika orang-orang di mobil kaget dan spontan membalas salam itu WA ‘ALAIKUM SALAM WARAHMATULLAAHI WABAROKAATUH.
    Pewawancara: bayi yang BARU LAHIR BICARA ??

    Syeikh Issa Badwan: ” Ya, bayi itu. Bayi said … Inilah orang yang mengatakan kepada saya, dan KAMI MELAPORKAN HAL INI KEPADA SYEIKH NIZAR dan ASOSIASI ULAMA ISLAM … Bayi baru lahir berkata: “AKULAH ORANG YANG AKAN DIBUNUH OLEH ANTIKRISTUS ( DAJJAL ), YANG TIDAK AKAN MEMERINTAH SIAPUN PUN LAGI.” Menurut hadis Nabi, orang ini akan diangkat menjadi [Mahdi] pada usia 18-20 tahun. Ini adalah kabar baik.

    Tentu saja, kedatangan DAJJAL Antikristus akan didahului oleh PENAKLUKAN dari ROMA DI ITALIA dan KONSTANTINOPEL, seperti Nabi mengatakan kepada kami. TEMPAT2 INI AKAN DITAKLUKKAN HANYA OLEH AL MAHDI yang benar. AL MAHDI ADALAH DARI PALESTINA, seperti yang disampaikan oleh Mu’adz bin Jabal, Sa’ad bin Abi Waqqas, dan Abdullah bin Mas’ud, yang semuanya imam besar dan ulama.

    Pewawancara: Apakah ada yang mengikuti apa yang terjadi dengan anak ini?


    Rasulullah Saw. bersabda :

    إِنَّهَا لَنْ تَقُومَ حَتَّى تَرَوْنَ قَبْلَهَا عَشْرَ آيَاتٍ، فَذَكَرَ
    الدُّخَانَ، وَالدَّجَّالَ، وَالدَّابَّةَ، وَطُلُوعَ الشَّمْسِ مِنْ
    وَيَأْجُوجَ ،n مَغْرِبِهَا، وَنُزُولَ عِيسَى ابْنِ مَرْيَمَ
    وَمَأْجُوجَ، وَثَلَاثَةَ خُسُوفٍ: خَسْفٌ بِالْمَشْرِقِ
    وَخَسْفٌ بِالْمَغْرِبِ وَخَسْفٌ بِجَزِيرَةِ الْعَرَبِ، وَآخِرُ
    ذَلِكَ نَارٌ تَخْرُجُ مِنْ الْيَمَنِ تَطْرُدُ النَّاسَ إِلَى
    “Sesungguhnya TIDAK AKAN TERJADI KIAMAT HINGGA KALIAN MELIHAT 10 MACAM TANDA. Kemudian Nabi Shalallahu’alaihiwassallam menyebutkan: MUNCULNYA DAJJAL, BINATANG (keluar dari dalam bumi), MATAHARI terbit dari barat, ISA BIN MARYAM TURUN KE BUMI, KELUARNYA YA’JUJ DAN MA’JUJ, TERJADI TIGA KHUSUF yaitu di timur, barat, dan jazirah Arab. Lantas akhir semua itu MUNCUL API DARI NEGERI YAMAN yang menghalau manusia ke tempat berkumpul mereka.” (Shahih Muslim, Kitabu Al-Fitan wa Asyrathu As-Sa’ah)

    Dalam Riwayat Shahih Bukhari, Kitabul Fitan, Bab Laa Yadkhulu Ad Dajjal Al Madinah 13 : 101.
    Dari Abu Sa’id Al Khudri Ra, disebutkan bahwa lelaki yang dibunuh oleh DAJJAL ini adalah orang terbaik yang keluar dari Madinah untuk menghadapi DAJJAL, lalu berkata kepadanya, ” Aku bersaksi bahwa engkau adalah DAJJAL yang telah dijelaskan beritanya kepada kami oleh Rasulullah Saw. Lalu DAJJAL menjawab, apakah pendapat Anda jika aku bunuh orang ini, kemudian kuhidupkan kembali. Apakah Anda masih meragukan urusan ini ?” ( yakni tentang pengakuan DAJJAL sebagai TUHAN ). Lalu orang2 menjawab, “tidak !! Kemudian DAJJAL membunuhnya dan menghidupkannya kembali. Kemudian Lelaki itupun berkata, “DEMI ALLAH, TIDAK ADA ORANG YANG LEBIH MENGERTI TENTANG ENGKAU PADA HARI INI SELAIN AKU.” Lantas DAJJAL hendak membunuhnya, tetapi dia tidak mampu.

    Rasulullah Saw. bersabda : Wahai sekalian Manusia !! Sesungguhnya TIDAK ADA FITNAH DI MUKA BUMI INI SEMENJAK ALLAH MENCIPTAKAN KETURUNAN ADAM YANG LEBIH BESAR DARI FITNAH DAJJAL. Sesungguhnya Allah tidak mengutus seorang Nabi, melainkan telah memperingatkan kaumnya akan fitnah DAJJAL. ( Shahih Bukhari ).

    Mengenai DAJJAL yg teriwayatkan dalam nash hadits adalah : seorang lelaki, berkulit kemerahan, berambut sangat keriting, buta mata kanannya, dan didahinya tertulis “KAFIR”, demikian diriwayatkan pada : Shahih Muslim hadits no.166, 169 dan masih banyak lagi riwayat shahih serupa.

    Dari Abu Hurairah Ra, Rasulullah Saw. bersabda,

    « وَالَّذِى نَفْسِى بِيَدِهِ ، لَيُوشِكَنَّ أَنْ يَنْزِلَ فِيكُمُ ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ حَكَمًا عَدْلاً ، فَيَكْسِرَ الصَّلِيبَ ، وَيَقْتُلَ الْخِنْزِيرَ ، وَيَضَعَ الْجِزْيَةَ ، وَيَفِيضَ الْمَالُ حَتَّى لاَ يَقْبَلَهُ أَحَدٌ ، حَتَّى تَكُونَ السَّجْدَةُ الْوَاحِدَةُ خَيْرًا مِنَ الدُّنْيَا وَمَا فِيهَا » . ثُمَّ يَقُولُ أَبُو هُرَيْرَةَ وَاقْرَءُوا إِنْ شِئْتُمْ ( وَإِنْ مِنْ أَهْلِ الْكِتَابِ إِلاَّ لَيُؤْمِنَنَّ بِهِ قَبْلَ مَوْتِهِ وَيَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ يَكُونُ عَلَيْهِمْ شَهِيدًا )

    “Demi jiwaku yang berada di tangan-Nya. SESUNGGUHNYA TELAH DEKAT MASANYA NABI ISA AL MASIH PUTRA MARYAM AKAN TURUN DITENGAH-TENGAH KALIAN. Dia akan menjadi Hakim yang adil, dan MENGHANCURKAN SALIB, MEMBUNUH BABI, menghapus jizyah (upeti), harta semakin banyak dan semakin berkah sampai seseorang tidak ada yang menerima harta itu lagi (sebagai sedekah, pen), dan sujud seseorang lebih disukai daripada dunia dan seisinya.” Abu Hurairah lalu mengatakan, “Bacalah jika kalian suka:

    وَإِنْ مِنْ أَهْلِ الْكِتَابِ إِلَّا لَيُؤْمِنَنَّ بِهِ قَبْلَ مَوْتِهِ وَيَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ يَكُونُ عَلَيْهِمْ شَهِيدًا

    “TIDAK ADA SEORANGPUN DARI AHLI KITAB, kecuali AKAN BERIMAN KEPADANYA (ISA) SEBELUM KEMATIANNYA. Dan di hari kiamat nanti Isa itu akan menjadi saksi terhadap mereka.” (QS. An Nisa’: 159)”

    “Menurut Tafsir Ibnu Jarir Ath Thobari, “Mereka seluruhnya akan membenarkan Nabi Isa ketika ia turun ke dunia untuk membunuh Dajjal. Sehingga ketika itu agama hanya ada satu yaitu agama Islam yang lurus, agama Ibrahim.
    Abu Malik mengatakan bahwa yang dimaksud adalah ketika Isa bin Maryam turun, yaitu tidak ada satu pun ahli kitab yang tersisa kecuali mereka akan beriman pada Nabi Isa.
    Al Hasan mengatakan bahwa maksud ayat ini adalah sebelum kematian Nabi Isa dan -demi Allah- Nabi Isa saat ini masih hidup, berada di sisi Allah. Ketika beliau turun lagi ke bumi, semua pasti akan mengimani beliau.
    Qotadah mengatakan maksud ayat ini adalah sebelum kematian Isa dan jika beliau turun ke muka bumi, semua agama akan beriman pada beliau.
    Ibnu Zaid mengatakan bahwa ketika Isa bin Maryam turun lagi ke bumi, ia akan membunuh Dajjal. Lalu tidak akan tersisa lagi seorang pun Yahudi kecuali akan beriman padanya.

    Firman Allah Ta’ala tentang Nabi Isa Al Masih Putra Maryam;

    وَقَوْلِهِمْ إِنَّا قَتَلْنَا الْمَسِيحَ عِيسَى ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ رَسُولَ اللَّهِ وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ وَمَا صَلَبُوهُ وَلَكِنْ شُبِّهَ لَهُمْ وَإِنَّ الَّذِينَ اخْتَلَفُوا فِيهِ لَفِي شَكٍّ مِنْهُ مَا لَهُمْ بِهِ مِنْ عِلْمٍ إِلَّا اتِّبَاعَ الظَّنِّ وَمَا قَتَلُوهُ يَقِينًا (157) بَلْ رَفَعَهُ اللَّهُ إِلَيْهِ وَكَانَ اللَّهُ عَزِيزًا حَكِيمًا (158)

    Tetapi (yang sebenarnya), ALLAH TELAH MENGANGKAT ISA kEPADA-NYA. Dan adalah Allah Maha perkasa lagi Maha bijaksana
    ” (QS. An Nisa’: 157-158)

    Allah Ta’ala juga berfirman,
    إِذْ قَالَ اللَّهُ يَا عِيسَى إِنِّي مُتَوَفِّيكَ وَرَافِعُكَ إِلَيَّ

    “(Ingatlah), ketika Allah berfirman: “Hai Isa, sesungguhnya Aku akan menyampaikan kamu kepada akhir ajalmu dan mengangkat kamu kepada-Ku.” (QS. Ali Imran: 55)

    (Ingatlah), ketika Allah mengatakan, Hai Isa putra Maryam, ingatlah nikmat-Ku kepadamu dan kepada ibumu di waktu Aku menguatkanmu dengan ruhul qudus. Kamu dapat berbicara dengan manusia di waktu masih dalam buaian dan sesudah dewasa… (QS Al Maidah: 110)
    Dan dia berbicara dengan manusia dalam buaian dan ketika sudah dewasa dan dia adalah salah seorang di antara orang-orang yang saleh. (QS Ali Imran: 46)

    Berkata Isa: “SESUNGGUHNYA AKU INI HAMBA ALLAH, Dia memberiku Alkitab ( INJIL ) dan DIA MENJADIKAN AKU SEORANG NABI,dan Dia menjadikan aku seorang yang diberkati di mana saja aku berada, dan Dia memerintahkan kepadaku (mendirikan) SHALAT dan (menunaikan) ZAKAT selama aku hidup; dan BERBAKTI kepada ibuku, dan Dia tidak menjadikan aku seorang yang sombong lagi celaka. Dan kesejahteraan semoga dilimpahkan kepadaku, pada hari aku dilahirkan, pada hari aku meninggal dan pada hari aku dibangkitkan hidup kembali”. ITULAH ISA PUTERA MARYAM, yang MENGATAKAN PERKATAAN YANG BENAR, yang mereka berbantah-bantahan tentang kebenarannya. TIDAK LAYAK BAGI ALLAH MEMPUNYAI ANAK, MAHA SUCI DIA. Apabila Dia telah menetapkan sesuatu, maka Dia hanya berkata kepadaNya: “Jadilah”, maka jadilah ia. (QS. Maryam: 30-35)

    ALMAHDI adalah dari keturunan Rasul saw, mengenai hadits shahih yg mengatakan bahwa Almahdi adalah NABI ISA PUTRA MARYAM adalah hadits Munqathi’, hadits yg mengatakan Almahdiy adalah dari Keturunan Rasul saw Ashahhu (lebih shahih), (Tafsir Imam Qurtubiy Juz 8 hal 122)


    Bila kalian melihat keluarnya PASUKAN MEMBAWA BENDERA HITAM dari KHURASAN, maka datangilah walau dengan merangkak, sungguh dalam pasukan itu TERDAPAT KHALIFATULLAH ALMAHDI”. Hadits ini memenuhi persyaratan Shahih Bukhari dan Muslim. (Mustadrak ‘alaa Shahihain hadits no.8531).

    Sabda Rasul saw : “TAK AKAN DATANG HARI KIAMAT, SAMPAI PERMUKAAN BUMI DIKUASAI OLEH SEORANG LELAKI DARI AHLULBAITKU, namanya sama dengan namaku ( MUHAMMAD ) dan nama ayahnya sama dengan nama ayahku ( ABDULLAH ), maka ia memenuhi bumi dengan keadilan dan kemakmuran” (Shahih Ibn Hibban hadits no.6824)

    Bila kebangkitan ALmahdiy, maka ia akan menundukkan Qastantiniyyah (Konstantinopel) dan mengalahkan mereka. (Tafsir Imam Attabari juz 1501)

    • dear yovi

      From what you are saying, the baby was born in 2004, so he is still only 7 years old now.

      And therefore, your Mahdi will not come forth for at least another 10-13 more years?

  207. I realy confused abt dis stories…Jesus is de answer let wait n will c who s who

  208. hmm. Interesting. Admin! Are you lying or just kidding? Dajjal means Imposter not Christians !!! Dajjal is referred as the Anti-Christ if you read about him. Dajjal will be killed by the Christ, Jesus-Christ. That time there will be neither christians nor muslims my friend. There will be followers of Dajjal (Anti-Christ) and believers in one God. I do not remember any mention that Mahdi will be the the Imam (leader) of Jesus when he will come back. Mahdi has been mentioned by Mohamed as a good person that will come after him (not a prophet) in a latter time and will fix some breaks in peoples’ believe. Please read about things you are writing about before publishing them and mention a reference of what you say. Thanks.

  209. Hello Marianne,

    Your information about Muslims Sunni/Shia and the Mahdi is incorrect. I suggest you read real authentic resources like the Quran and Seerah instead of putting things together that “seem” correct to you. This article illustrates that your research is not complete, and putting wrong facts out there just for the sake of proving your point is not justified. Please do thorough research before making uneducated comments.

    Christians and Jews are not considered unbelievers, the next time you read the Quran, please read the historical context behind the verses. In the Quran it also says that Christians and Jews that are righteous are all believers and will ENTER heaven.

    Overall, great read and very interesting. Keep up the good work.

    • hello Nadii

      I originally got the information from some muslim sites, and gave the reference.

      At first Muhammed wanted the christians and jews to accept him, so he labeled them as people of the book, but later, when he did not accept him, he had more negative things to say.

      sura 3:110 confirms: “Some of them are believers”,
      although the same sura in the next sentence restricts: “but most of them are evil-livers”

      Since Christians rejected Muhammad’s claim to be
      a prophet from God, and since their message deviated from his, he accused them of falsifying
      Scripture and opposed those Christian dogmas which deviated from his revelations, which he
      believed to correspond to the original message.
      One of the most important reproaches to the Christians involves the Trinity (2:116; 5:73),
      which Muhammad however misunderstood as a “trinity” of the father, Jesus Christ, the son,
      and Mary, his mother. According to the Muslims, this Christian doctrine is the greatest sin
      possible, the unforgivable offense of “shirk” (“shirk”: associating a partner at God’s side).
      Christians err in their understanding of the sonship of Jesus (5:72; 9:30), since Jesus
      according to the Qur’an is only a human being, a prophet and messenger of God sent to Israel.
      And the Christians err in their belief in the crucifixion of Jesus 84:157-158) and in their
      doctrine on the fall of mankind.
      It was perhaps at this time of growing estrangement from the Christians that Muhammad
      proclaimed to have received the revelation of a Qur’an verse which has been often quoted by
      today’s Muslim fundamentalistic groups. This text openly refers to Christians as “evil-doers” or “evil-livers” and warns the Muslims against taking Christians as their friends: “O you who
      believe! Take not the Jews and Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He
      among you who takes them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Many of mankind are evil-livers”

      During this period of increasing disassociation, the Qur’an also tells us that Christians insist
      on their (false) theological positions and that they are “turned away” (5:75). They “confound
      the truth with falsehood and knowingly conceal the truth” (3:71) and therefore “Allah fights
      against them. How perverse are they!” (9:30), because they stick to the sonship of Jesus.
      Also many exhortations “to kill (or slay) the unbelievers” are found in the Qur’an (e. g. 2:191;
      4:89) as well as the statement that the unbelievers “will abide in the fires of hell”.

      more here…..

      Click to access The_Islamic_view_of_Christians_-_Qur’an_and_Hadith.pdf

    • You say that in the Quran Jews will enter heaven. Why does it stand that you should wipe off Jews from the Arabic halv island? Double messages. Islam is crazy. Islam is a false faith and Satan is behind it.

  210. Sing with gladness for Jacob, shout to the chief of the nations, publish ye, praise ye O Lord, save the people, the remnant of Israel …Jeremiah 31

    Did not the Bible say the Wheat will be separated from the Tares?

    The Pharissees didn’t agree with the Sadduccees and they were the Religious Leaders -they fought every page turned but you never heard they went to war on each other even though Jesus said ‘you cannot do without Him, – Live life abundantly it’s not happening why …..

    We are running 24/7 across the globe – rebuilding families to have it all are being left behind — unattended ….why

    -The Wars! The Animals are angry at us (Creation)- we are dominent over them; for how long the way things are going- Stop the wars – Chief of the Nations, we repent INJ , Nightmares, rebuked INJ – Terrorism seized INJ . The Human race in their right mind as like Abraham, take us back our first Love O Majesty, we bow.

    Science is discovering other Planets for…..?

    The Animals speaks (Creation) again: “we have to put in our petition in and get the human to listen- they are losing ground-letting the evil one push them into killing each other – there’s no perfect country but the Fullness of the Creator. Don’t they realize our creation will be in danger too, Lets’ throw ourselves out of the water to get their attention – LET’S GET THE FATHER’S ATTENTION TO win the human race back , STOP THE WARS all choked up in greed and hunger-hate about them and GET every Soldier to its’ own land.

    What are they thinking – Priority overtaken –

  211. The Persians and the Turks would never submit to Arabic rule. You are completely and totally ignorant of the sociological and cultural realities in the region.

  212. so you think muslims are gog and magog ?? 🙂 well that’s a point of view !! firstable i want to tell you that in coran and as our prophet told as we don’t think that christians are unbelievers !! they do believe in god and they believe in Jesus (peace on him ) as we do the only one deference between a muslim and a christian is that some christians think that Jesus is god son which is not true because Jesus is a prophet just like Mohammed and all of god prophets (peace on them all) . second in the coran and as Mohammed (peace on him) told as Jesus (peace on him) will not distroy gog and magog he will just kill the folce massayah !! the Dajjal and he will not fight christians he will tell them the truth that he is a god messenger not a god son and that all the prophets were sent for the same purpose which is to ask people to believe in god not in sun or rocks or status !!!
    can you ask a 5 years old kid to study maths !!!! NOOOO it comes step by step he needs to grow up first !! and it’s the same thing for humanity god message wes sent to as step by step it depends on humanity age until we get to islam that most of christians and jews didn’t want to believe in !!! however we respect all the religions and we respect and love all the prophets !!
    last thing i want to tell you !! who are the terrorists you are talking about ??? you have to read more about the history !! what Napolion did !! what Hitler did !! how many country was under the colonial forces ??? wasn’t that terrorism ??? what israel is doing now in palastine isn’t that terrorism ??? and please don’t tell me about al kaida !! because nobody in this word doesn’t know that it’s an american creation !!

  213. […] התמונה: מפת גוג ומגוג אפשרית, מתוך דיון בנושא בבלוג של אשה […]

  214. Ad Daulatul Islamiyah Melayu
    The Islamic Caliphate Of The End

    We invite The Believers
    From around the world to join us
    became Army of Islam at The Man from The East of Imam Mahdi
    as A New World Religion of the nation of Islam the end time.

    Visit our Invitation

    • the hope is to fight evil and choose good.

      the question is how to identify what is evil and what isn’t. the bible predicts that many people will be deceived. so how do you help the deceived, and keep them from the evil.?

      good is found in all groups, and so is evil.

  215. Folk’s, be very carefull when talking to MUSLIM’S (Ishmaels seed), as they are compelled to decieve PEOPLE of the BOOK (Christian’s & Jew’s, the seed of Isaac). While Mohammaden’s are our spiritual cousin’s, the Q’uran, commands they LIE to us. Known as KITMAN or TAQYIA, the goal being peacefull acceptance of Mohammed’s superior vision. If rejected they are to employ the SWORD. Unfortunate Christians & Jews living in MUSLIM nations(57 votes at the UN or NWO) are severely subjugated under SHARIA LAW, known as DHIMMITUDE, they must pay special JIZYA TAXES. If a SUPERIOR Muslim male wants to marry a Christian daughter, the law says he can just take her, but it is forbiden that a Christian male marry a muslim women. Muslim TAQIYA salesmen are a dime a dozen on USA college campuses, and have infiltrated our government & society in general ( EDUCATION, FINANCE & HEALTHCARE) at the invitation of the LIBERAL “Kumbaya” crowd. Remember the penalty for APOSTACY or Conversion from ISLAM…….is DEATH. Never insult their Prophit …….or you will see just how peacefull their religion is.

    • If I live in America or any European country I have to pay Taxes or I will get punished. This is fair and modernization.

      But if You Christians or Jews living in an Islamic country and paying JIZYA ” Taxes ” this is injustice and retardation !! Wow!!

      Why Muslim men can marry Christian or Jewish women while they can’t marry Muslim women ?

      The Answer is simple:

      Muslims Believe in One God which his Name is ” ALLAH ” and Believe in All his messengers and prophets.

      Muslims have accepted the message that Allah sent with them which is : ” Worshiping One God who has no participants in his power and authority and Believe in his All Messengers”

      the following question will illustrate this issue:

      Do you believe in Mohammed as a messenger of Allah ” God “?

      if your answer is yes then congratulation, convert to Islam and get marry from a Muslim woman.

      If your answer is no then we are sorry for your lose, because you will be jugged before Allah about this conversation.

      • only unbelievers are required to pay tax, so your tax is based on someone’s religion….we do not do that in my country….EVERYONE pays taxes.

        so your jizya IS in justice..the other choice is getting killed if christians do not pay it

  216. Si de lo que hablan es del Apocalipsis, esto es mas real de lo que se cree.
    La guerra es con armas electromagnéticas o psicotrónicas (haarp) y esta ya lleva bastante tiempo, de hecho llegó al terreno de la Nueva Era ( la era del bien).
    El rapto o secuestro está ocurriendo con energía dirigida (las víctimas son muchas) y corresponden a los Protocolos de Sion (esclavización a semejanza de la gobernanza del Faraón).
    La moneda es el dólar y la tribulación empieza con la anunciación de la Diaspora.
    El ayin hara les viene a los sionistas como consecuencia de su maldad.

    • Los Protocolos de los Sabios de Sión o Los protocolos de las reuniones de los Sabios de Sión es una patraña antisemita que pretende describir un plan judío para la dominación global. Fue publicado por primera vez en Rusia en 1903, traducido a varios idiomas, y difundido a nivel internacional en la primera parte del siglo 20. Henry Ford financió la impresión de 500.000 ejemplares que se distribuyeron a lo largo de los EE.UU. en la década de 1920.

      Adolf Hitler y los nazis publican el texto como si fuera un documento válido, a pesar de que ya había sido expuesto como fraudulentas. Después de que el Partido Nazi llegó al poder en 1933, ordenó el texto para ser estudiado en las aulas alemanas. El historiador Norman Cohn sugirió que Hitler utilizó los Protocolos como su principal justificación para iniciar el Holocausto-su “orden de genocidio”. [1]

      Los Protocolos pretende documentar el acta de una reunión a finales de los líderes judíos que discuten su objetivo de hegemonía judía mundial por subvertir la moralidad de los gentiles, y mediante el control de la prensa y de las economías en el mundo del siglo 19. Todavía es ampliamente disponibles en la actualidad y que ahora a veces se presenta como un documento auténtico, ya sea en Internet o en forma impresa en varios idiomas.

  217. anonimo
    Utilice Google traducir y escribir en Inglés para que todos puedan entender.

  218. You are all lairs!!!! GOG MAGOG are the so called jews that have taking over Palestine NOW! The jews in Palestine are not the decendants of Abraham! check dr alhaik findings about dna and the khazars(gog magog from the north, southern russia. You are all lost..

    I will post this webpage on a real christian site.. You are liars!

  219. Just a correction in your explanation of Dajjal. Al-Massih-Ad-Dajjal or Dajjal doesn’t means Christians. It means “Anti-Christ”. Dajjal in Islamic references will be an imposter of the Christ.

  220. Hi, Naaloos u r 100% right that the jews in Palestine are not the decendants of Abraham as was found by dr alhaik through his findings about dna and the khazars(gog magog from the north, southern Russia).
    The original tribes of jews were forced to leave their land and they migrated to different places mostly to Arabia ,Iran ,Afghanistan , Kashmir and places which are included in India and Pakistan. The descendent of these tribes mostly changed their religion some became Christians ,some muslims and hindus etc.
    Afghans and Kashmiri mostly evolved from Jews original tribes. I think these are the people about whom Marianne mention are a remnant of the jews will be spared because they are still God’s chosen and loved people. they will be saved and when Jesus returns they will finally receive Him as Messiah. God calls them “the apple of His eye.”
    Marianne you are right we Afghani and Kashmiri are really waiting for Jesus Christ and I am sure it is us how are the real apple of God’s eye.

  221. […] How does Gog and Magog relate to Armageddon? […]

  222. Although Harry Truman was Hitler’s last Air Force commander, Hitler didn’t win the Second World War.
    1918, 1945, 2004, NOW: what did/do the illuminati control: FOUR Key dates of Illuminati End Times

  223. Marianne

    thank you for opening this topic which is related to all three divine religions

    First of all there are many many mistaken information about Islam and Muslims.

    Secondly: Our prophet Mohammed ( Peace be upon him ) told us that: when the end of this life closes we ” Muslims ” will make a full truce with ” Christians ” to form one army and fight one enemy.

    Also he told us that: The Messiah ” Jesus ” ( Peace be upon him) will come back again to the earth and he will kill the ” Dajjal ” who claimed that he is Allah ” the God ” because he has some abilities that god gave him to test people, who will believe in him will go to the hell and who will disbelieve in him will go to the heaven.

    This Dajjal won’t appear until the Muslim and Christian Allies win the war against their one enemy. Then, Muslims and Christians separate to fight each other, because many Christians convert to Islam and Christians want Muslims to turn them in to kill them, but Muslims refuse and go to the war then Muslims win the war and continue to conquer Rome of Italy. While they are on their way to Rome the Dajjal appear from ” Isfahan ” ( an Iranian village and he will be followed by 70 thousand of Iranian Jews ) when the Muslim army hear about his appearance they come back to their home to safe their families from this Dajjaal. Then the Messiah ” Jesus ” ( Peace be upon him ) will descend to kill the Dajjal who is blind in one eye.

    After all these events the Gog and Magog will released from their barrier. They will kill must people on this Earth and the Messiah and the few people with him will run to the mountains from them. The messiah and his followers will pray to Allah to kill them then the Almighty Allah did. Thereafter Jesus will rule the Earth for 40 years he will spread justice and security then he will die.

    (For who is interested in the Dajjal, he/she can search this man characters to know about him.)

    Thirdly: for those who are ignorant and know nothing but some false ideas got them from mass media or internet about ” Allah, Mohammed or Islam “, I say ” Read, Read, Read.” Go and seek the truth by yourself don’t let anyone controls your mind and dictates his/her opinions on you.

    Allah is ( Satan ) what a sham on you !!

    Have you EVER read what Allah said about ( Satan ) in the Holy Quran ?

    I swear you NEVER EVER read about it.

    I recommend everyone who want to write about anything he has to read about it from authentic resources.

    don’t be a follower of Satan and mislead people.

    • I am not blind.

      I see what Islamic jihad is doing…

      beheading innocent people….

      this is satanic and the god that told them to do it is satan

      • You are an ignorant.

        I swear you didn’t read the Holy Quran and you don’t know the Satan as well.

        You were destroying the world and you are saying that you are the best people on this planet.

        Be honest you were destroying Islamic countries and supporting tyrants to kill people their and you are refusing to allow us to be one nation without borders, and you keep saying we are bad people and we are following the Satan !!

        Really are you seeing the facts on the ground ??

        I’m not a blind too, I Saw what America did in Japan, Afghanistan, Iraq, Palastaine, Africa and Vietnam.

        Especially Iraqi war when the ” God ” Order J.W Bush to Invade Iraq and kill 2 Million people and expel 6 million.

        What kind of God is this ?? Is he the God of ” OIL and Blood ” !!

        You can visit Youtube to see what your country soldiers did to Sunny people there. They taught Shia’t to behead Sunnis. Your soldiers and Shiat made awful things they were killing on the ID.

        What Jihadis is doing now In Syria is what you did to them in Iraq. they force prisoners to wear like ” Guantanamo Clothes ” and beheading them.

        They are sending a message to American people which is: we are doing this like what your country did to us, ” tit for tat “.

        Bashar Al-Assad killed people for 4 years and he used forbidden weapons such as chemical weapons and you didn’t form an alliance.

        You have to learn to see the ” Action not the Reaction “.

        Like it or not America is the satanic country on this planet.

        I’m sure this country will be destroyed by the God because of its deeds.

        Keep supporting tyrants and dictators the mother of democracy.

        We as true Muslims don’t want your democracy, we want to apply the law of Allah either you accept it or not we will do if Allah willing.

        • then stay in your own countries…you kill your own people as well.

          I am not blind

          I see who is killing, and muslims are not innocent.

          • No we don’t. You are supporting minorities and fear them from us to fight us.

            You are away from Islamic countries you don’t know anything but what you see and hear from the mass medias.

            The moment of the truth will come soon you will see it by your own.

            We won’t gave up we will remove the tyrants then we will defeat All hypocritical enemies who invaded our countries and killed us.

            • I know history.. Islam has been waging war for 1400 years, long before the USA existed.

              today, in muslim countries, muslims kill each other.

              I know someone from pakistan. killing christians is a hobby there.

              Islam spread by rape, pillage and the sword, and persuasion.

              people convert out of fear, not because of faith in it.

              • today many many many christains convert to Islam

                can you tell me How is that ? Where is the sword where is the Islamic wars ??

                What you know is wrong. today the war and mass media are against Islam.

                Where is the rape and pillage ?

                believe me you know a distorted history. Explain to me how people today convert to islam without a threatening of sword!!

                ” killing christians ” > if they are soldiers I support him but if they are innocent people I swear he isn’t a muslim.

                in our holy book there is a verse which is saying (And do not kill the soul which Allah has forbidden, except by right.)

                waiting for your explanation.

                • if they convert willingly, they are low IQ black people

                  everyone else is threatened with death.

                  Islam uses rape, pillage and war..violence to get what it wants.

                  it also uses lies and politics.

                • prove:

                  “many, many, many christians convert to Islam…..”

                  such BS propaganda!

                  • it is not a propaganda. You don’t live in the real world !!

                    I posted a video above

                    and there are many many many many christians converted to Islam without a threatening of sword as you said.

                    Also black people are human and have mind as you.
                    If he/she christian then they are High IQ !!

                    that means All muslims are low IQ !!
                    be honest Marianne.

                    speak the truth don’t distort it.

                  • Can you tell me how Islam spread by sword, rape and wars

                    I want to know how, because I’m muslim and didn’t take my weapon to convert my neighbors to Islam till now. Also i didn’t rape their women.

                    what I know is that Islam spreading by morals, decency and the right.

                  • A black woman

                  • A black man

                  • these three videos are proves and youtube full of nice American muslim people who are High IQ whither they are Black or white.

                    In Islam there is no difference between Black and White All are equal.

                  • Take this one it is in Germany and you know German people are low IQ
                    see how many people convert to Islam just because of a lecture about Islam

                  • there is more

                  • This is an american Doctor

                    • I appreciate the fact that you are loyal to your religion…but so am I….

                      as I said, liberal mentalities who do not know God are the worst ones to rely on for a witness as to how they converted to anything.

                      I can also listen to those who converted FROM Islam to Christianity.

                      the modern ISIS is a good example why I would not listen to any muslim claim how peaceful they are.

                  • I don’t ask you to convert to Islam because Allah who guides people to the truth not me.

                    You asked me the prove and I proved it. that it.

                    I wish you be careful before spreading lies about Islam with no proves

                    You didn’t prove how Islam spreading now without sword or wars.

                    Waiting to prove that, without that joke ” Low IQ “

                    • the research that you posted it hasn’t names of whom did it.

                      I can’t read research without knowing who did it.

                      The message of the research is ” don’t be a muslim be a christian.”

                      they cut the verses from the context to change the meanings.

                      If you want to read about Mohammed or Islam read it from Muslims not from Christians or Jews.

                    • What I read about Muhammad and my god of the Kaaba is as follows:

                      Muhammad who could not read, or write was named after his Uncle. His Uncle’s house worshiped the god Sin. One of 360 gods at the Kaaba. When Muhammad grew up he raided caravans, raped and murdered. He also made everyone worship the moon god Sin, or get their heads cut off.

                      Allah Akbar = My god is greater. Greatest of what? My god is greater than all other gods at the Kaaba.

  224. Watch this to know the truth.

  225. Watch your soldier how he teaching Shiat millitia and wages conflicts between Sunnis and Shiats:
    keep saying we are killing each other with no reasons.

    • this is american soldier …..the iraqis are cowards and want the americans to do all the dangerous work…all they want is to have guns and ride around in trucks….this american soldier does not want to die just because they expect him to do THEIR job…..these are stupid iraqis…..and the american soldier tells them they are stupid.

  226. ^^
    Thanks I know English and Arabic.

    Also I know who are they. When the satanic American army invaded Iraq they collected Shiat militia from the street to let them join the army and police. So, they trained and armed them to kill Sunni people.

    this soldier cursed them because they are coward when they were facing Mujahdeen they were running away. they are traitors. Didn’t you see what happened in Iraq in Mousel city when 80 thousands Iraqi soldiers ran away when the Mujahdeen were coming to them before few months.

    You can find some videos show a shiat man beheading an innocent Sunni and an American soldier watching with pleasure.

    Don’t tell me what happened, I know better than you. Don’t be an evil, accept the truth which is you are initiated a war against Islam just to weaken muslims and to steal the mineral resources.

    this war won’t last forever you will lose it. Because you are fighting for satan way.

    You can seek the truth by yourself. Mass medias are controlled by governments. don’t make them your information resources.

    Below a link to a translated Quran you can pick any chapter to read:

    you won’t lose if you take a look into it.

    • We are not fighting for Satan’s way. The CFR controlled US government is sold out to Satan’s way just as all other countries and false religions like Islam are. Both Sunni and Shia.

      Works will not get you into Heaven. Only G-d’s grace. The one true G-d who lived a perfect life inside a human body to be murdered as a sacrifice for all of human Sin. The word made flesh died for you too.

      Please accept G-d’s grace.

  227. Leatherneck

    I know God very well because I don’t worship except him and he has no son or beloved people like ” Jews claimed ” as well.

    I ask my creator to forgive me because there are no intermediaries between me and him. He said ask me I give you because I’m the only creator and who has the authority and power. I don’t depend on a myth of sacrifice story.

    The bad priests had distorted the Bible for political and issues and to misguide people from the truth.

    I want to give you an example:

    If your neighbors or employees did some bad deeds and they hurt you and everyone. Is it a justice or injustice to bring your son and made him sacrifices for them just to forgive them??

    this is not the right why to forgive people. the God has the full capability to forgive people just by a word from him. ” I forgive you ” then every sins are forgiven.

    Don’t feel bad about the power of God and degrade his ability.

    if the God had a son ” Jesus, as you have claimed,” then he had made him sacrificed for people’s sins. So he is Not a fair God.

    I don’t accept his way of judgement because If I made sins I have to be responsible of them not the son of God if he had a son basically.

    wake up people you are saying wrong about the god and you mistrust him.

    • jesus is the way to the father in heaven

      your creator will not just forgive you…..he demands holiness and punishment for sins….

      God has always required sacrifice for sins.

      the ultimate punishment for sin is death

      jesus VOLUNTEERED to take our punishment for sins. he was not forced.

      this is NOT a myth…this is why you are sincere, but lost

  228. Leatherneck

    You said what you read about Mohammed but the truth is different.

    I don’t know who is the moon god.

    Mohammed is the last messenger of Allah. He is the mercy messenger.

    Mohammed’s neighbor was a jewish and he didn’t get his head cut.

    Jews was hoped that the last messenger to be one of them but when they know that he is from Arabs. they disbelieved him and fight them.

    Jews are racial people and most of them are unfair people.

    I swear that Jews know the truth of Mohammed which he is a messenger of God. But they don’t want to admit it.

  229. Marianne

    You keep seeing the reaction rather than the action.

    I told you before. In Islam it is forbidden to kill innocent people whatever their religions is.

    But killing who occupied your land or who killing your people just to free you land or to protect your people is a great thing that the God will reward you on it.

    What happened nowadays is muslims getting killed and people around the world blame them for defending themselves.

    Be honest also jews and christians had a bloody history.

    Don’t forget destroying Japan by two ” Nuclear bombs ” without any consideration for humans and animals.

    • It appears you are out of touch with reality. Your comments are all over the place. Jews and Christians have a bloody history too and the atomic bombs are apples and oranges arguments.

      As I am not Jewish, I will not speak for them. Evil men murdering in the name of G-d is not Christian. Evil men murdering in the name of my god of the Kaaba is following Muhammad.

      Let’s see, should I use a million men to take Japan, or use two atomic weapons? Are you following me yet?

      Lucifer stated G-d’s laws were not just. That said laws kept G-d’s creation from ascending to a higher creation. Reads very New Age right? How do we know G-d’s laws are just? Those laws require payment. Who can pay for their sins? Can you? Perhaps, you hope your good deeds outweigh your bad deeds.

      That which G-d used to create the Heavens and earth was made flesh. That part of G-d we call the word willingly paid the price that none of us can pay. Works do not get you into Heaven. Christianity is a relationship, not a religion.

      Islam and all other religions/political systems are of this world and belong to Satan.

    • muslims have killed innocent christians for 1400 years.

      they still kill christians, also infants, they cut off their heads

      jews and chrsitians have never done this bloody thing

      jews and christians have been attacked by muslims…and need to defend themselves.

  230. Marianne

    There are lots of christians in Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq, Palestine, Sudan, Egypt, Pakistan, India, Indonesia, Malaysia and etc.

    Most of those Christians were living since the beginning of Islam and still there. No one touch them, how is that?

    You are talking emotionally. and you read from Christian and jewish resources.

    I am a muslim and my Holy Book hadn’t ever distorted, I learnt from it that killing innocent people is forbidden. Also, the prophet of Islam said don’t kill children, women, old people and don’t cut off tress. This speech is in war what about in peace ??

    • quran says to oppress christians and subdue them…they are not considered equal to you….they must either convert to Islam, pay slave tax, or be killed.

      the christians you mention live in fear for their lives…they are oppressed ad treated like dogs. they are not allowed to have good jobs….they are poor…and persecuted.

      many have been killed but the news media will not report it

      If they could escape muslim countries they would do that, but there is no place for them to go…they are surrounded by more muslims…it is dangerous for them to escape.

      you are commanded to kill christians and jews wherever you find them..if they do not submit to you as inferior….or convert…

      ISIS is practicing Islam.. they wage jihad according to Muhammed rules. they murder babies in the name of allah…they smile and hold up heads of slaughtered innocent children…

      I would never live in muslim country…

      The Quran contains at least 109 verses that call Muslims to war with nonbelievers for the sake of Islamic rule. Some are quite graphic, with commands to chop off heads and fingers and kill infidels wherever they may be hiding. Muslims who do not join the fight are called ‘hypocrites’ and warned that Allah will send them to Hell if they do not join the slaughter.

      ISIS leader has a PhD in Islamic studies….he knows what he is doing…slaughtering unbelievers is the correct way of Islam

      YHVH – Yahovah is God, not allah,

      YHVH is merciful, not allah..

      allah kills, and YHVH creates