Is the "Beast" Rome?

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Today, there are several differing opinions on whether the first beast of Revelation is Rome, or a Middle Eastern empire, such as Greece or Turkey.

This is to present the “Roman beast” for consideration.

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Author: James Giordano

Lighthouse Publications: lighthousep@earthlink.net

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Daniel and History

First of all we must realize that almost everything in the book of Revelation is based on, or refers to, the Old Testament. So if we find a correlation between the two we must refer to the Old Testament and make sure our interpretation does not contradict it.

When it comes to the beasts of Rev. 13 we must look at the beasts of Daniel. That will be the starting point, and we should see if John is referring to Daniel and continuing his prophecy.

Actually we all agree that both are prophesying the end time events of the “last week” of Daniel or the 7 year tribulation period, so they should agree on almost everything.

And speaking of the “last week” we must also agree that both Daniel and John use the formula of 1 prophetic day = 1 actual year for at least some prophetic events. Actually, Daniel uses it for most events but if Daniel uses it then John must also use it for the same event.

Now, for the four beasts of Daniel I’m sure we all agree that they are kingdoms (he calls them kings) and that the first three are Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece. We are certain of them since in Dan. 2 he calls them by name. The fourth kingdom is just referred to generically as a “beast.”

Now in Daniel 2 we read about Daniel telling king Nebuchadnezzar of the future kingdoms that would replace Babylon by conquest.

He described how each new kingdom would take over the previous one in a successive story.

When he speaks of the fourth kingdom we must assume that it is the one that will replace Greece at some time in the future.

He leaves no clue that there will be a 900-year gap before the fourth kingdom arrives and we must also assume that it will defeat the Greco-Macedonian empire. If not, then why include them in the story?

He did not refer to Rome by name because it did not exist when he wrote the book. But we know from history that Rome conquered Greece and took over the holy land.

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Beasts of Daniel Ch.7:

Dan 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it [was] diverse from all the beasts that [were] before it; and it had ten horns.

Dan 7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn [were] eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

He repeats this vision in chapter 19:

Dan 7:19 Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth [were of] iron, and his nails [of] brass; [which] devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;

Dan 7:20 And of the ten horns that [were] in his head, and [of] the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even [of] that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spoke very great things, whose look [was] more stout than his fellows. I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom [are] ten kings [that] shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

Dan 7:25 And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Now let’s look at history and see if Daniel was correct. He says he sees Rome with ten horns or kings. Does history back him up?

Well, near the end of the Roman Empire there were in fact ten kingdoms comprising most of Europe.

But what of the little horn?

Well, it is different from the other countries and it speaks great blasphemies.

It also persecutes the saints and plucks up three kings by the roots. It also thinks to change laws and times. This is an important and often overlooked verse.

This new power thinks it can change God’s laws – the ten commandments.

God is not concerned with civil laws, and the verse says he “thinks” he can change the laws and times. If this is a real king he could easily enact new laws, so these must be divine laws, not common laws.

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The 3 and 1/2 years

Now Dan 7:25 also says that the saints will be given to them for “a time and times and the dividing of time.” This comes to 3-1/2 prophetic years.

But we must convert days into years to get the actual time. 3-1/2 years is 1260 days so the little horn was to last 1260 years.

The Holy Roman Empire lasted from 538 until 1898 when Napoleon, the last Holy Roman Emperor, took the pope captive to Paris where he died in jail.

The Holy Roman Empire was dead and there were no popes for three years.

Do the math – 538 to 1898 = 1260 years.

Are all of these coincidences?

Or maybe Daniel was wrong?

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Let’s look at history again, and see what happened after the fall of Rome.

In 538, the last Roman emperor, Justinian, put his uncle, the leader of the besieged Roman army, on the throne of the pope and gave him both the military and spiritual control of the western empire. He then left for Constantinople forever. This was the beginning of the Holy Roman Empire.

Now, in 325 the Vatican had convened the Council of Nicaea and on the agenda was the so-called heresy of the Aryan nations – the Ostrogoths, Vandals, and the Heruli.

They believed that Jesus was merely a creation of the Father and no better than an angel.

They were labeled as heretics but nothing could be done until the Vatican was give military power by Justinian, after which they launched a campaign to destroy them.

By 355 they had accomplished this and the three Aryan nations were plucked up by the roots, never to rise again.

This refers to:

Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom [are] ten kings [that] shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

As for persecuting the saints, the Aryan genocide was only the beginning. The crusades and the inquisition followed.

As for changing laws and times, the church wasted no time in removing the second commandment due to all the statues and other images the church inherited from converted Roman temples like the Pantheon.

The Romans (under Emperor Constantine) forced the church to adopt the Roman’s day of sun-worshipping on Sunday so the pope was forced to change the time of the Sabbath (4th commandment) from Saturday to Sunday.

Those who didn’t go along were martyred as heretics to the tune of as many as 100 million saints.

This refers to:

Dan 7:20 And of the ten horns that [were] in his head, and [of] the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even [of] that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spoke very great things, whose look [was] more stout than his fellows. I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

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Revelation continues where Daniel left off

From this we can establish a precedence. Daniel is telling the story of empires that have control over God’s people. We will see that John is referring to this story and continuing it where Daniel left off.

And we will see that each new kingdom replaces or comes out of the previous one.

There is a tendency of some people to want the story to jump around the globe, referring to many different countries as far from the source as the United States. This is not necessary and only over-complicates the interpretation.

John, in writing Revelation, must use symbolism to protect himself from the retribution of his Roman guards, so although he knows the name of the empire he cannot use it in his writings for fear that his captors will think he is trying to defame Rome, and might then destroy his writings.

If he wanted to refer to any other kingdom such as Greece or Persia or Turkey he could have called them by name, so why didn’t he?

Now for the 8 kings mentioned by John, we can assume that they are also related to the kingdoms of Daniel starting with Babylon, not Egypt as some people think.

John gives us a clue here because in Rev. 12:2 he says:

And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as [the feet] of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Here John refers to the beasts or kingdoms of Daniel, starting with the most recent (Greece-the leopard) and going back to the lion of Babylon.

He can’t mention Rome by name so he refers to it simply as a beast – the same beast of Daniel that describes Rome, not by name but simply as a beast.

So Daniel’s last beast is directly related to John’s first beast, so they must both be Rome.

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But does Revelation match the prophecy of Daniel, and if so how does the story continue?

Let’s start at the beginning of Rev 13:

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as [the feet] of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

So we see the same beast with ten horns but only 7 heads.

The Aryans are already gone. And the beast is speaking great blasphemies. So he is now describing the Holy Roman Empire.

And just so we know it’s Rome he mentions the previous empires that preceded it according to Daniel.

He states them in reverse order because he is looking into the past where Daniel was looking into the future.

Now we can already see that God does not like this beast or kingdom. (Remember, Daniel said this would be a little kingdom and different from the rest. The Vatican is indeed very small but has religious power throughout the world)

Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Now remember that the beast is Rome with the eleventh head (the Vatican), minus the 3 Aryans.

We can assume that the head (king) that is wounded is the Vatican – that little horn with eyes and speaking great things.

The 5^th beast (false prophet) is part of 4^th beast.

It is not the antichrist receiving a head wound as it is so often described.

So here we see that the kingdom is wounded but the wound is healed.

The papacy was ended but it came back stronger than ever when the Vatican was given autonomy of state in 1929.

It then became a nation and holds a seat at the U.N. No other church holds that power.

Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty two months.

OK, this beast was given power for 42 months.

That is 3-1/2 prophetic years/1260 actual years – exactly the same as Daniel. There can be no doubt that these are the same kingdoms.

According to John, this beast is an affront to God. The church changed God’s laws and adopted over 50 pagan practices from the Romans. Practices that date back to ancient Babylon and Baal worship.

It makes sense that when Jesus returns and takes over the churches he will destroy all idols, statues, crucifixes, paintings etc. and will banish all paganism that has crept into the church. He will restore the true Sabbath as well.

In other words, he will destroy Babylon within the church, as we shall see later.

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Now what about the second beast, the one from the earth?

Well, we have some clues as to what it is:

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spoke as a dragon.

Rev 13:12 And he exercises all the power of the first beast before him, and causes the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

So we know it is a religious power which pretends to be like the lamb of God, but it speaks blasphemously, just like the first beast. This beast, whose wound was healed, has all the power of the first beast.

This sounds a lot like the Vatican, which came back strong as ever after the Holy Roman Empire broke up. It certainly doesn’t sound like a country such as America, Russia or Turkey as none of them act like the Holy Roman Empire or the Vatican. They are not a church.

And it is this power that enforces the “mark of the beast” so the “mark” must be religious in nature.

Something to do with God’s laws.

God does not care about financial matters and the church is not likely to require its members to purchase things or make their tithes etc using an implanted microchip as many believe.

I believe that the mark will be related to one of the changed laws Daniel mentioned and that the church will force its members to break one of the commandments.

As for the number of the beast – 666, we know it is the number of a man. This man will be the leader of the Vatican.

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Now let’s look at paganism in God’s church.

There are many stories in the Old Testament where God warns his people about false gods that have infiltrated the religion of God’s people.

A famous example is in 1Kings where the prophet Elijah challenged the followers of Baal to a cosmic cook-off and of course the score was Jehovah 1, Baal zero and the priests of Baal were killed.

This cleansing of paganism from God’s church is a forerunner to what will happen in Revelation. God has no reason to destroy some other religion or any particular country (unless they are attacking Israel perhaps).

The woman of Rev. 17 is not Islam or the U.S. as many think, it is the Church itself.

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If the Vatican is the 2^nd beast, then the man in

question must be the pope.

Since there have been many popes, the name must be his title, which never changes.

The official title of the pope is “Vicar of the son of God” which in Latin is VICARIVS FILII DEI This title contains the following Roman numerals: V,I,C,V,I,L,I,I,D,I which equals 5+1+100+5+1+50+1+1+500+i which adds up to 666.

This would make the Vatican the beast and the pope the false prophet.

The pope may be considered the “corporate image” of the Vatican beast as he represents it and it is his image we think of when the Vatican is mentioned.

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The Holy Roman Empire as a TYPE of end-time events:

If we look at the structure of the Holy Roman Empire we see a group of autonomous countries with their own kings or leaders, all under the control of the Holy Roman Emperor – a political figure who rules over the empire.

Then you have the Pope who is in charge of all religious matters and acts in the place of God.

In modern Catholic theology the earth is already in the millennial reign of Christ with the Pope taking his place.

Now let’s consider the popular theory that there will be a charismatic political figure that will come to power in a “New World Order” – a soon-to-be-created one world government where all the nations of the world regardless of religious or political orientations will come together in friendship and give their loyalty to their new dictator. (But he’s a NICE dictator).

He will have a great religious partner who will lead the world into a one-world-religion.

These two figures are the Anti-Christ and the False Prophet and they speak great blasphemies.

You can see that the Holy Roman Empire was a TYPE of the end time scenario. You could say that the end-time scenario will be a revived Holy Roman Empire.

So the question is “How closely will the end times reflect the Holy Roman Empire?” Will it be a virtual copy of it or will it consist of totally different countries and a different religion? I suppose it all depends on how tricky John was trying to be in the prophecy.

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The “woman” in Rev. 17 & the apostate beast/church of Rev. 13.

In addition to the two beasts of Rev. 13 we need to relate the woman of Rev. 12 and the woman of Rev. 17 to these beasts.

A woman in prophesy always represents a church, and the church in Rev.17 is in big trouble.

The church has the title “MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT MOTHER OF HARLOTS” which refers to paganism that has run rampant in it and its “harlots” which are daughter churches that have spun off from the original church of Rome but still retain elements of paganism in them.

This would include churches that use graven images or continue to break the Sabbath commandment.

Some people see the name “Babylon” and immediately think of the modern-day ruins of the city, and since the area is now occupied by Muslims, the church must be Islam.

So the question is “Is Babylon literal or symbolic?” Well there is a mostly overlooked clue that answers this question.

The term “MYSTERY BABYLON” actually refers to an ancient religion called the Babylon Mystery religion. It was started in ancient Babylon by Semiramis, the wife of Nimrod. It Includes Tammuz, a false savior that mocks Jesus Christ.

It is the predecessor of Baal worship and it was active in Rome at the time of the apostles. John would have been quite familiar with it. Once you realize this there can be no doubt that Babylon represents everything pagan that God hates within His church.

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Are there clues that point to the Catholic Church as the whore of Babylon?

Well lets look at some verses:

Rev 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet colored beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns

Rev 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet color, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

So we see that the woman (church) sits on a beast with 7 heads and ten horns, so that’s the church of the Holy Roman Empire.

And the church (read priests and cardinals) are wearing purple and scarlet, and the woman is bedecked with gold and precious stones and a golden cup. These items are not used by Islam but are common in catholic mass.

And the later description in Rev 18 of the power and great wealth of the church can only be the Vatican. It is far richer than any country. It has no debt and its real estate holdings alone are worth more than most countries, not to mention the innumerable relics, cathedrals and library, plus the fact that they own the utilities in the city of Rome.

*** While some oil-producing Islamic countries have great wealth, the religion there does not share this wealth.

We also know that the woman sits on seven hills, and we all know that Rome is known as the city of seven hills.

It was known by that name in John’s time and it is not likely he knew of any other cities of his time with a similar nickname. This was as close to using the word “Rome” as he could get given his circumstances.

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So if the Church of Rome and its offshoots are the apostate church of Rev 17, then where is the true church?

Well we have to look to Rev 12 for the answer.

To paraphrase and condense it, we see a woman with a crown of 12 stars giving birth to a male child whom Satan hates and who was caught up to heaven and will rule from his throne with an iron rod.

Once again, a woman represents a church and unlike the whore of Rev 17, this woman is from heaven and clearly represents the 12 tribes of Israel.

She is giving birth to Jesus and at that point she becomes the Christian church or the church of the 12 apostles.

But the devil tries to kill her by getting his apostate church to persecute her. She flees to the wilderness to escape the beast church of the Holy Roman Empire. How do we know this? Because she is in hiding for a time:

Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days.

That’s right – 1260 prophetic days or 1260 actual years – exactly the duration of the Holy Roman Empire. And just to reiterate the time frame:

Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. (That’s the same 3-1/2 prophetic years).

Now check out the last verse:

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

This is a telling verse because it indicates that the true church is a mere remnant of her seed and that they keep the commandments of God. If this means ALL the commandments, then the true church must be a small group of Christians that have no graven images in their church, and keep the true Sabbath – Saturday.

It is interesting that the number of modern Christians that keep the Sabbath is quite small, around 5% or less of all Christians.

These churches were considered heretics during the Holy Roman Empire and many groups such as the Wallensians (who fled to the mountains of Austria) were wiped out by orders of the pope, just like the Aryans.

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Summary:

From this study we can see that the 4th beast of Daniel is the first beast of Rev 13.

They both described the Holy Roman Empire although the first description by Daniel is of the original Roman Empire, that stomped out the previous kingdom of Greece.

The second beast comes right out of the first one so they are nearly identical. Perhaps this is why John sees it coming up from the earth rather than the sea as did all the other kingdoms. The Vatican took over the Holy Roman Empire peacefully rather than by conquest.

The second beast, therefore, is the whore church that will be destroyed when Jesus returns.

This beast is the 6th king(dom) of Revelation. This beast is the Vatican that exists today, it is not a future event.

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John mentions 8 kings or kingdoms actually, but what are they?

Well the first four are those of Daniel:

1; Babylon (Fallen)

2: Medo-Persia (Fallen)

3: Greece (Fallen)

4: Rome (Fallen)

The last four of John are as follows:

5: The Holy Roman Empire (Fallen) <———— The first 5 have fallen.

6: The restored Vatican (Fallen, but revived – beast that was, is not and yet is)

7: The restored Roman Empire (European Union – Present)

8: The restored Holy Roman Empire (Future)

This will be a joining of the Vatican and the EU.

Note that as John says, the 8th will be of the 7th and will last just a short time.

Probably just the last half of the tribulation during which many will turn to God.

Note that there will not be a One-World-Order, or a new world-wide religion. Just a restoration of the old Holy Roman Empire exactly as it was in the past.

The beast is not a person (not the so-called Antichrist) as is supposed. The term Antichrist is never used by Daniel or John. The beast is the Vatican.

There will be a unified Christian church, however, as most protestant churches return to become part of the papacy.

This process started in year 2000 when 11 protestant denominations agreed in principle to rejoin the catholic mother church.

The process should be complete by the time the 8th kingdom is formed. This is the unification that most people interpret as a new-world order or a one-world religion. Sorry but it’s not going to be that spectacular.

Now that I have established the 8 kingdoms I need to discuss a much misunderstood passage from Rev. 17:

Rev 17:8 The beast that you saw was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

This beast is not the antichrist but the second beast (from the earth) John was just talking about – the Vatican. Remember, it was, then it was destroyed (was not) and yet is (was restored).

And for as the whore of Babylon, it will certainly go into perdition when Christ returns. Now that the know this we can look at other disputed verses:

Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, [and] the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

Now some people believe that John is describing seven kingdoms of his own time going all the way back to Egypt and Assyria, but these earlier kingdoms never controlled the holy land, and have nothing to do with the story John is telling.

Others believe they are literal kings and say they are Roman Caesars that preceded John and followed after him.

But they are dead and buried – what would they have to do with end time events?

No, the answer is simple.

When John is making that statement he is picking up the story where he left off. He had already talked about the first 6 kingdoms (Babylon thru the Vatican) and he was simply recapping these six.

The first five were fallen (at this point in the story, not from the reference point of his own time) and the 6th was the one with the deadly wound that healed, and he described this as: “was, is not and yet is.”

It is an awkward phrase that has confused many people. The Vatican that was “killed” by Napoleon in 1898 was restored in 1929 by Mussolini. After this recap he continues the prophecy with the next two kingdoms (7 & 8).

One key to Revelation is this idea of continuation. John picks up Daniel’s prophecy and continues it. He pauses, and when he comes back to it, everyone thinks it is a different story in a different time. And a different place as well. Hey, it’s all the same story.

So John is still referring to the kingdoms he just described, but now a new one, the seventh (the restored Roman empire) enters the picture.

Now, the EU treaty was only ratified on Jan. 1, 2010, so it will not be here for long (a short space). Now the clincher:

Rev 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goes into perdition.

Perfect! The 6th kingdom (the Vatican – the beast that was, is not and yet is) will be part of the 8th but it will not conquer or replace the 7th (EU), it will simply attach itself to it, giving the Vatican and the pope the political power to enact religious laws such as the mark of the beast (mandatory church attendance every SUNday for example).

So really the 8th beast is still the 7th, it just has a religious power added to it. Exactly like the original Holy Roman Empire.

And to reiterate, it says again the Vatican will go into perdition.

And I’m not the only one who believes this. The revered catholic saint, St. Malachy whose vision showed him all the future popes from his time until the second coming, predicted the destruction of the Vatican during the reign of the last pope – Peter II who will follow the current pope.

The same fate was also predicted by the famous seer Nostradamus and the prophecy of Our Lady of Fatima.

If the Catholic Church predicts its own doom then maybe we should take it seriously.

John was able to nail 2000 years of history, and while many people simply cannot bring themselves to believe it because it may affect them or their church, sticking your head in the sand and waiting for something that most likely will never happen will not help you make it through the tribulation and avoid the mark of the beast.

Rev 18:4 says: And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

God commands his people to come out of the beast church.

This means the church is Christian since his people would not be in any other religion such as Islam.

God is only concerned with his own people.

It’s all about us I’m afraid. We all need to get our act together and Revelation tells us what we must do. It’s a wake-up call for all of us and it is critical we understand it if we are to be ready for the tribulation.

I also wouldn’t count on an early rapture to take you out of harms way.

If it happens, and I don’t believe it will, it will only be the remnant of the seed of the true church. If you are not in that 5% or so then you may be as they say “left behind.”

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Final Thoughts:

I hope you will open your mind in this matter and study the scripture without a predetermined agenda.

Try to find a mistake in my logic or scripture that completely contradicts it. There is a lot of symbolism in prophecy so it’s not an exact science, so try not to make too many assumptions especially ones that are vague and take the prophecy on a strange detour.

Simple and obvious should trump clever and convoluted. God doesn’t want to be tricky when it comes to prophesy. It may be hard to understand before it happens but it should be obvious after it occurs. It is a shame that so much has been accurately predicted and yet so few have realized it.

I guess it is simply a repeat of what happened when Jesus came the first time. Look carefully and recognize the truth. It is right in front of you.

God bless, everyone.