Jezebel as an apostate religious authority

** I am just using this one person as an example. There are many apostates and heretics in the church. Many websites address the multiple false teachers and prophets. I am using this person because we do not hear much about her, yet she has mislead many. Pray for her.


mona-west.jpg

Seemingly calm, serene, idealistic, educated, inspiring to many. But what is wrong?

A. Denial and flawed logic to support a rebellion against biblical truth, or any truth.

I recently debated the “homosexuality is a sin” issue with a couple of gays. The actual arguments are not relevant here. But to try to “trump” me, they quoted

Rev. Dr. Mona West, who wrote the article, “The Bible and Homosexuality”

http://www.mccchurch.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Sexuality_Spirituality&Template=/CM/HTMLDisplay.cfm&ContentID=583#bibleandhomosexuality

Here Dr. West decides homosexuality is not a sin by twisted rationalizations, and deliberate, unjustified misinterpretations. She claims:

1. Sodom story: the sodomites were not condemned and destroyed for homosexual sins, but because

a. they were trying to rape the angels to show cultural dominance, not homosexual lust.

b. they did not show hospitality !!!   😦

However, the bible does not say this. This interpretation is deliberately wrong. The intended rape is due to lust.

And many people were rude throughout history, but none of them were destroyed by fire and brimstone for it.

God had already condemned the city before the angels even showed up, so her statement is
deliberately false.

2. She then quotes Leviticus, which is VERY clear as to meaning, and then totally denies it has anything to do with homosexual acts:

“You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; it is an abomination.” (18:22)

“If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them.” (20:13)

She claims it is a rule to prevent social dominance over their Mediterranean neighbors by performing anal intercourse with them!! However, it is clear that the bible never says this, nor mentions the neighbors. She is making things up again. God is referring to same sex relations. This PhD does not apparently think like one, and is not willing to understand the clear command against a man being with a man in a carnal way.

3.. Dr West apparently does not want to properly interpret Romans 1:26-27 either, and uses the Mediterranean neighbors again as an excuse. She has come up with a fantastical argument of sexual dominance by anal intercourse as a new way to wage war, and win over enemies If only the ancient biblical nations had agreed, this would have saved much bloodshed. I do not recall David fighting Goliath in this way, for example.

4. . She finally concludes that the Bible is not the revelation of God, only Jesus is, even though Jesus is quoted in the Bible. She equates believing what the Bible says as idolatry. Now since the bible is the only record of what Jesus taught, she has just contradicted herself. She is also implying that she is so special that she has the revelation of Jesus, and scholars over thousands of years have not, while rejecting the Bible as idolatry.

Her thinking pattern is disconnected and irrational. It is mentally disturbed. Analogy: She is basically claiming that the sky is not blue, but it has trees in it, so it must be orange.

Conclusion: Repeat of same pattern seen in other Jezebels : She just lies, and uses some form of authority to persuade others, who apparently are looking for a lie to believe in. There is nothing rational or valid about her conclusions. But she does not care. It works for her, because people are looking for lies to believe in. Their acceptance of her lies makes what she says “true.” So now God has to change his Word to fit in with her thinking.

B. The success, then, is dependent upon people who are desperate to hear a lie, because the truth is so obvious. Success is with the ignorant and sinful, people looking for excuses to sin, not the spiritually wise and holy. Somehow, they think Jesus allowed for a permissive interpretation of “carnal love” to replace holiness.

But Jesus said:

Jn 14:15 If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

Jn 14:21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves Me

1 Jn 2:3 And by this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments

1 Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.

2 Jn 6 And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, that you should walk in it.

Rev 12:17 who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

Rev 14:12 Here is the perseverance of the saints who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus.

Nowhere in the teaching of Jesus did he allow for fornication, homosexuality, abortion or other apostate issues of today. He made it clear if we love God, and Him, we will walk in obedience and love. This love is spiritual, not carnal. People who walk in carnal love obey their flesh, not the Spirit of God.

C. Credentials questioned.

2Tim 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth..

In this case, I was curious as to how someone with both a Master’s in Divinity, and a PhD in Theology from a known seminary could be so obviously corrupt or stupid. I therefore ventured upon calling the Louisville, Ky Southern Baptist Seminary to check on her credentials outlined in her online resume.

They confirmed she went there. However, the interpretations she presents do not reflect the obvious theology she would have studied at the seminary. So she either deceived the seminary, being a closet lesbian, and learned facts which she never internalized as truth, or she changed her orientation afterwards. I believe she was a lesbian all along, but deceived the school. It is a short time between when she graduated in 1987, and when she started writing heresy (1990), and transferred to the Metropolitan Community Church (MCC) by 1992. She apparently waited until after she graduated to start writing as, and admitting to, being a lesbian. When I talked to the school, they indicated her theology was inconsistent with the school’s philosophy.

Mona completely rejects the Word of God, even though she spent years studying it, and having the opportunity to learn it properly. Apparently, her need to justify her sin was much stronger than her desire to know the truth of God’s Word, as God meant it to be interpreted. Now, she spreads her heresies to encourage homosexuals to believe that homosexuality is not condemned by the Bible, but actually is approved by it. She has an unrepentant heart, and leads others in this direction.

This is a good example of the apostasy predicted in the Bible, where even the elect of God are deceived, and are deceiving many. The salvation of many people have been lost through her apostate leadership.

2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

Jam 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

1Jo 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

While some people sin out of ignorance, this person deliberately rejected the Word of God as idolatry, , and set up her own opinion, and herself, as the “real truth.” This is true idolatry.

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20 Responses to “Jezebel as an apostate religious authority”

  1. I thank God that I was out and gone from that life before this inane idea of “homosexual Christians” began to be championed by devils like this. I have no doubt that I would have stumbled.
    Thank you for being bold enough to speak the truth to those who have stumbled and those would toss a stumbling block in the path of weak believers.

  2. I am happy to hear that you were spared this type of situation. The Holy Spirit must have you in his care. The bible predicted that many in the last days would be deceived, even “the very elect” of God. So now we see this as a confirmation that we are in the last days. I pray God continues to protect you and keep you.

    • While the illuminati – the satanic group behind the government, the TV, the music industry, food industry and medical companies – are doing their best to make homosexuality the norm and “homophobia” (the recognition of homosexuality as a sin) a bad thing, it is interesting discussion although at the end of it, the ACT of homosexuality is undoubtably evil as God condemned it.

      Our first vaccines, the water we drink and the food we eat are FULL of chemicals, oestrogen and other hormones included. This turns homosexuality into a physical disorder for many rather than just a fun temptation (which doesn’t make it right just makes it seem right), TV and music produce culture, culture makes homosexuality normal, gay people were intentionally persecuted for decades just so they could make it a hate crime and Make it look like anti-homosexuality attitudes look like oppressors.
      We then have people making it look that way through stooges burning them or oppressing them with signs and chants of “God hates fags!” [sic], when God loves everyone and we Christians respect everyone, we just hate the sin, we are not the judges and don’t condemn the person.
      Feelings of homosexuality don’t necessarily have to lead to the act, also many people have said that when a demon left them they felt heterosexual.
      If they were to lie in society as it was in the 1800s where a man and a woman married and that was it, they would never need to feel like they had to have homosexual relations as they would be in their wedlock in which they would have a partner to have sexual relations with and possibly children with and that was the end of it. “I’m not attracted to the opposite sex” wouldn’t be an argument, as say, if my wife got too fat, thin, old or whatever that made her physicAlly less attractive I wouldn’t have licence to find sexual gratification with another woman as I have my wife, and she’s the one woman I’m entitled to have sexual relations with – plus of course it is supposed that you feel something (love hopefully) for your husband or wife whether or not they are your ideal sex partner or someone who makes you pretend to have a headache to avoid the deed.
      Trying to turn the bible into a free licence is what satan does… “Do what thy wilt” is not the way, do what God asks is definitely the way. God knows better than a flesh brain could ever know, in our ignorance we find pantheism, in our strength we find God.

  3. I totally agree that these “super-educated” demons spewing their poisonous words to the less educated among us by using their “credentials” as a sounding board to lead many to hell by selling their own brand of snake oil, rather than speaking the truth from the Holy Word of God. May God bless you for your research and reaching out to millions who need to hear and see the Truth of His Word.

  4. Well, it was all predicted that these things would come to pass, so we shouldn ot be surprised.

  5. your country

    true, the situation is still disturbing. I hope this helps some gays that might read it.

    marianne

  6. *sighs* This had broken me like a hammer to glass. Just what on earth is it with this whole Jezebel talk on this site, anyway?

    Here are my own counter-counter ideals. Hope you actually post them other than not let this show up. I’d prefer being ‘shot down’ rather than never ‘talking to the skies’, if you catch my drift.

    1) Of course God had condemned Sodom & Gomorrah (sp?) before the whole angel-rape thing. Was it not told before the whole scene at Sodom was written about? Sodom’s sin wasn’t merely as wishy-washy as ‘rudeness’ or ‘inhospitality’. Whatever Sodom did before acting rude or trying to rape, God did not like it.

    This does not essentially mean that God wanted to annihilate Sodom & Gomorrah (sp?) over homosexuality. It means that the Sodomites were doing plenty of things angering God. But I doubt homosexuality is the whole kit and caboodle of God’s wrath, especially because the Ten Commandments do not specifically anything. The only thing closest to sex in the Commandments are: ‘Thou shalt not commit adultery’.

    In other words, I feel the rape attempt at Sodom was either a) the straw that broke the camel’s back for God, or b) something that really didn’t help find the 10 people that God would’ve saved Sodom from. Either way, the Sodomites were condemned. Wasn’t God going to wipe out S&G unless there 10 good people there anyway?

    2) *sigh* Lemme just write something. It’s likely used alot by gay Christians in different forms but a similar idea, I am sure: “If you are going to condemn homosexuality, a part of the Mosiac Holiness Code (or whatever you wish to call it), you may as well condemn pork, too.” You DO eat ribs, bacon, ham, the like, right?

    3) *looks up Romans 1:26-27* *slaps forehead* OY VEY IZ MEIR. How many times am I gonna hear/read this? OF COURSE GOD MADE MAN AND WOMAN. Call me vulgar, but tribadism doesn’t make babies, and neither does anal. I think it’s rather obvious that God made Man and Woman so His people could constantly reproduce and fill His world.

    By the way again. I severly dislike that whole ‘Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve’ thing.

    Also. IT’S NOT TO WAGE WAR, METHINKS. For one, you cannot demand respect from those you’ve slewn by the sword. Why ancient people had gay sex to show dominance, I’ll never know. But to be vulgar again, I doubt if David ‘fought’ Goliath by trying to give him anal intercourse, David would not be the wonderful king he’s known to be. ‘Cause Goliath would mutilate him if he tried.

    4) While Christ obviously tells the truth, being the Son of God and God Incarnate, one just needs to wonder what sin indeed is. ‘Cause if being gay isn’t a sin, there is no denial of Commandment following over it, then! That simple!

    I just want to tell you I am NOT a Gnostic. I’m a Christian, non-affiliated, but I have gone to a United Church of Christ church.

    The Bible is still written by man, even if its basis is what the Holy Trinity has said. There are many many people who wrote the bible, some likely with different viewpoints. Many translations and versions are out there. I personally would love to see a Bible translated 100% from the old Greek’s original copies.

    I earnestly wish I knew right from wrong much more. I really do. For now though, this is what I try to tell you. ‘Sometimes it’s best to agree to disagree’.

    Let the counter-counter-counter-ideals begin. Now.

  7. Hi KT

    The point of this post here was to show how some people come up with crazy reasons (dominance???), to excuse their sin, and how they claim the Bible is on their side.

    A jezebel is a rebellious spirit who establishes itself as “the law” and goes against what God commands, luring others. The idea is they lie, and control people and behavior this way. Look at the other posts on this site to see more.

    Homosexual sin was one of many sins in Sodom. But it was still a sin. The city was already condemned BEFORE the angels ever got there, so the attempted rape would not have made any difference. It just accented the sinful and aggressive state of the people. The angels were there only to get Lot and his family out.

    The Bible is the Word of God. Jesus did not change any of it while he was here to prove it was written wrong. He explained the spirit of the Word, so people could properly interpret it.

    Sin is defined through out the Bible. That is why it is not 10 pages long. We have to read all of it to comprehend everything.

    I have no idea what this sentence means. Can you re-word it?

    ‘Cause if being gay isn’t a sin, there is no denial of Commandment following over it, then! That simple!

    All sexual sins come under the general heading of adultery. This is further outlined in other areas of the Bible as God punishes people for particular sins. There is no “thou shall not rape” in the 10 commandments either, but in Deuteronomy, it is condemned. “thou shall not commit incest with your children” is not in the 10 commandments either, but that is clarified in a later section. To understand sin, one has to spend time reading all of the law, not just one chapter where God gives the 10 commandments.

    All sin is unholy before God. Those with one kind of sin do not have the authority to condemn someone with the same or a different sin. We can all inform, and teach, each other what God says about sin, but the final judgment rests with God not man. Informing each other should be an act of love, seeking to direct others and save them from punishment.

    Blessings
    marianne

  8. Uh, right. When I wrote, “‘Cause if being gay isn’t a sin, there is no denial of Commandment following over it, then! That simple!”, I meant basically this: “If homosexuality is not sin, then it’s just not sin.”

    I’m gonna sound once more like a broken record, but, I repeat: since when do Christians nowadays follow the Law 100%? What about the whole pork-eating thing again?

    Well, of course rape is wrong; it’s typically violent, and certainly the rapee doesn’t want to get raped. Incest… is a whole other boat. *shrugs* Incest… oy, it leaves me uneasy a bit. Not something I’d wanna do, but hey, people are people.

    If you ask me, homosexuality depends on what’s ‘natural’ to someone. If you force homo sex on someone, that’s not quite right. But are their really demons hanging over a gay couple in love with one another?

    Also, I’d like to tell you — morality doesn’t always mean ‘sin or not’. And some things are seen as social mores, such as not raping people, obviously. You also notice… Christ NEVER said anything about being gay; then again, you’ve likely heard that one, too.

    Look. I know I’m sounding like every other pro-gay Christian (if you can consider me one). Yet there is one thing that you’ve seemed to forget… mistranslations in the Bible.

    *shrugs* I’m probably not going to be able to change your mind, ditto with you to me.

    Also. I’d taken that Sociopath test in your “Test for Jezebel tendencies” topic. I’m apparently 23% Sociopathic.

  9. Hi KT,

    The basic premise you stated is not true.

    I meant basically this: “If homosexuality is not sin, then it’s just not sin.”

    Homosexual sin is sin.

    There are the moral laws, which have to be kept until Jesus comes back. This includes laws against sexual sin, of ALL kinds.

    And then there are dietary and ritual laws, which are now under grace, and are optional, as long as one used wisdom.

    Pork is a dietary law, and has nothing to do with salvation. It has to do with health. God was trying to protect his people from parasites found in certain foods.

    blessings
    marianne

    • Marianne, do you have a list of moral laws?

      I mean I know morality is obvious but I would like them in black and white as I don’t think ignorance to a rule of God’s is an excuse, if the information was obtainable – or at least if you could give me the relevant passages to them? 🙂

      I will at some point read the bible cover to cover as I haven’t since I was around 12 years old, and have recently purchased every digital English translation I could plus the Latin version in order to get the best sense out of it possible, now I just need to dedicate the time 🙂

      D

  10. This is becoming downright pointless. This is likely to be my final reply.

    I would ask of you to give me a Biblical account of Christ saying to keep the moral laws, and if not Christ, then one close to him, such as Paul or John. If your source is not New Testament material, however, I’d like to also see you type it out.

    And please, do not use what Christ said during the Sermon on the Mount; by that I mean Matthew 5:18-20. People nowadays, to my knowledge, are unsure of what Jesus meant, especially because people STILL… yeah, forget it, you probably know by now what.

    I do not know how you’ll think of this next statement’s context; I’d found it on Wikipedia concerning Jesus’ expounding of the law. Anyway, as copy-and-pasted from Wikipedia:

    –Cyrus Scofield states: “The most obvious and striking division of the Word of truth is that between law and grace. Indeed, these contrasting principles characterize the two most important dispensations: the Jewish and Christian. “For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ” (John 1:17). … Law kills; grace makes alive. … Law says, ‘An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth”; grace says, “Resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.” Law says, “Hate thine enemy”; grace says, “Love your enemies, bless them that despitefully use you.” Law says, do and live; grace says, believe and live. … Law stones an adulteress; grace says, “Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.” … Everywhere the Scriptures present law and grace in sharply contrasted spheres. The mingling of them in much of the current teaching of the day spoils both, for law is robbed of its terror, and grace of its freeness.”–

    The Law, after all, isn’t quite what Christians follow; perhaps some, yet not all. Jesus did come to this sinful world, and by his grace we were saved. And since Christ allowed for all to be saved, this means the Law has no more effect.

    One final viewpoint or two I’d like to extend comes via Wikipedia:

    and finally,

  11. Hi KT

    Unless you listen to the truth that I am telling you, you will have no salvation in Jesus, and He will reject you when He comes for the saints.

    I am really amazed that you would think the Son of God would dismiss the moral law that he came to fulfill. If the law was not longer important, then Jesus did not have to die.

    But since he did die according to the law, taking on our sins, then the issue of the law and sin is of paramount importance.

    The discussion about grace and the law does not cancel the law. That is the gospel according to Schofield, or Wikipedia, not Jesus. The law is the reason we need the grace. The grace does not cancel the law.

    There is a lot more to Jesus than the sermon on the mount. To make excuses for sin and say it is ok to sin, and dismiss the moral law makes the cross Jesus died on a joke. Under grace, we may sin, but we are still required to repent, and turn away from our sins.

    Not only did Jesus reinforce the law, but he explained deeper dimensions of it. Jesus was so emphatic about obeying the law that he said if one is tempted to steal, it would be better if his hand were cut off. Or if a man even Looked at a women with lust, he was already guilty of adultery. You need to read your bible instead of listening to heretical teachings that dismiss the law. Jesus was a hellfire and damnation preacher to those who refused to turn away from their sins, and saying it was ok to dismiss the law.

    You asked for some scripture, so here it is.

    Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

    Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

    Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

    Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

    Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire

    Mat 5:23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there remembers that thy brother hath ought against thee;

    Mat 5:24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift

    Mat 5:25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.

    Mat 5:26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

    Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:

    Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

    Mat 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast [it] from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not [that] thy whole body should be cast into hell.

    Maybe we should throw out the moral law and allow murder, and theft, crime, and gang rape, and idolatry, and disrespect for God and parents, since this rebellious teaching says that we are not obliged to obey the law, since Jesus theoretically did not care about it, according to some heretic.

    Stop making justifications for homosexual sin. It is against the moral law, which Jesus upheld. You belong to a different social system that teaches homosexuality is normal, and homosexual behavior is not sin. If you want to be an atheist, fine. But do not claim to be a Christian, and then deny what Jesus taught. Just admit you are in rebellion, and you are not really a believer, and be honest. You cannot have it both ways. This world is full of heretics now. We are in the last days. Get a bible and do some thinking for yourself. Read what it REALLY says.

    I hope the Holy Spirit can reach you on this. Your salvation depends on it.

    blessings
    marianne

    • I think Jesus replaced the law in the way that its not the deed that is wrong but the intention – we can accidentally Lie in conversation – wrong but not the end of the world

      You can plan to tell a lie that ruins someone’s life, and the opportunity may not come that you tell the lie, no bad action but you sinned.

      Therefore, maybe naturally due to all the crap in vaccines and food and water etc etc physically one may be a homosexual with homosexual feelings and attraction, but the desire and intention to act upon it is the sin, not to have the feelings.

      I look at a gorgeous girl on TV, I find her attractive but I don’t imagine doing anything with her, if I met her I wouldn’t try to get her into bed, why? I don’t want to commit adultery. If I was to ask a girl out for a coffee with the intention of committing an act with her, even if she rejected me, I would have sinned.

      Yeshua made the law about intention not action, he didn’t destroy it, he fulfilled it. Fulfilling it meant that if you do break it, but you repent (have NO intention of doing it again) you may be forgiven – technically you could use it as a licence to do what you want then repent, but repentance isn’t words with no meaning as a sandwich isn’t bread with no filling, when you repent you must rid your heart of intention. Yes temptation may lead you to do it again but you repent it again, you don’t intentionally look to commit the sin again.

      God didnt say “this law is crippling them, lets just wipe the slate clean and let them become wild” he instead clearly wanted to give us a way to show we loved him in our actions through our intentions, not to obey him through fear of punishment and to give good men a way to be saved, not men that could do less punishable deeds.

      So of course the law is active. The food law as mentioned is not as God told a disciple “nothing I have given you may be called dirty” or something like that and he could then eat pork and shellfish as far as I remember.

  12. Paul wrote at 2:08am
    jason… i come to you in love now; forgive me if my admonition is not gentle. i have spoken to you in private… i have spoken to you in front of Christian witnesses… i speak again in the witness of your facebook friends. this is very simple: no tendency is a crime, but no tendency is an excuse. acting upon the gay tendency is a sin which must be daily repented of; we must ALL (myself included) hate our sin. rather, you have exalted your sin; you have demonstrated that you are proud of it, and you publicly lift it up, while with your lips you confess Jesus. you are trampling the name of God, and mocking him to this world. your testimony before unbelievers is lukewarm and weak. i beg of you to examine yourself. i pray that some inkling of the fear of God grips you this day. these words are not eloquent, but again they come in love. paul

    Jason is pissed off with Paul for writing message of condemnation. 7:33am –

    Jason at 7:39am February 4
    Paul. You have no right to condemn me in front of anyone let alone on my facebook. This action of yours is hardly Christian, and is very Hypocritical considering your own life. How you deny your life is up to you but I will accept and take a damned good grip of this gift God has given me. I’ll leave your comment there but I in no way am taking any notice of it. I only ever ask one person’s acceptance of me and in all respects God has accepted me and my Family has, so why anyone else thinks they have a right to publically try and humiliate me, is beyond me. If you have such an issue with me being gay then look in your own bedroom and take a good look at yourself. What you choose to do with your own sexuality is up to you but if you ever write stuff liek that in my facebook again I will remove you and block you.

    Andrew at 11:49am February 4
    I wonder if he similarly harrasses the obese? He should do if he is to be consistent.

    Paul at 12:11pm February 4
    loving admonition is not harassment. it’s something that real friends do. jason, my action publicly humiliates ME, not you… because obviously all your other “friends” have come to love your sin.
    the greatest man on the earth other than Christ Himself lost his head for telling someone that adultery was a sin against God. and my head isn’t worth nearly what John Baptist’s head is worth, so i’ll gladly lose it for you jason.
    i do take a good look at myself–i acknowledge that i’m a sinner. you, on the other hand, testify that you and God and everyone else accepts your sin as not being sin, which is a lie that sends tingles down my spine. i couldn’t possibly sleep without warning my friend about this.

    Paul at 12:16pm February 4
    and “what i choose to do with my own sexuality” is most certainly NOT up to me. God made the rules. i don’t have to obey Him; but the wages of sin are death. does this not concern you, pastor jason? do you even believe the scriptures? you’ll sacrifice all the good and true things to defend your sin.

    Paul at 12:20pm February 4
    i guess i beg you to chose to (a) “accept your sin” and stop pretending to be Christian, or (b) join the daily struggle that the rest of us are in. in your present condition, you slander Christ and teach the unbelievers a false Christianity; this opens the door for the name of God to be trampled upon… so please make your choice and stand firm to it.

    Andrew at 12:21pm February 4
    My original question stands. do you similarly publicly admonish your obese friends about their sin of greed? After all, Jesus had a lot more to say about greed and slothfulness than he did about sexuality.

    Paul at 12:26pm February 4
    andrew… sometimes obesity is a medical condition. if it’s greed, then admonition would certainly be kind. but it’s not supposed to be public. Jesus taught us to go 1-to-1 with that man. if he won’t listen, we go again in the presence of 2 or 3 witnesses. if he still won’t listen, we tell it to the church. if he still won’t listen, we regard that man as a hopeless heathen.

    Paul at 12:30pm February 4
    (but admonition would not be necessary if the “greedy” person hated his sin and daily repented… this would only call for love, support, encouragement, and forgiveness!)

    Andrew at 12:57pm February 4
    So you applying a different rule for obesity and greed it appears. Particularly strange as there is a broad body of research that one’s sexual preference is often dictated by genetics, so it’s no different to the occasional case of morbid obesity in that regard.

    Paul at 2:42pm February 4
    silly… genetically programmed preferences are not sin! it’s how we behave. we’re all “programmed” to sin!!! it’s about our actions, and our need of a savior. don’t you suppose that heterosexuality has a little to do with genetics as well? and the Bible has a LOT to say about heterosexual sin… nobody is guiltless.

    Jason at 3:51pm February 4
    I haven’t had this much action on my facebook since I started using it, and I am a bit dispaired but interested by it all.

    I’ve had some differing advice so I have to be careful how I reply. I will be cautious but I think I need to stand up a bit as well.

    I have to thank you for yoru comments Andrew. They are so true, that to pick on one thing is one thing but not looking at the plank is another.

    so the next few comments will be a bit of what was said to me.

    Jason at 3:51pm February 4
    1. THE USE OF THE BIBLE TO CONDEMN LESBIANS AND GAYS VIOLATES SCIENTIFIC PRINCIPLES OF TRANSLATION AND INTERPRETATION AND IS ACADEMICALLY UNSOUND, INDEFENSIBLE, IRRESPONSIBLE, AND IGNORANT!
    The bible in the original languages never condemns same sex love as a sin.

    2. THE BIBLE GIVES POSITIVE SUPPORT FOR SAME SEX COMMITTED RELATIONSHIPS In stories about Ruth and Naomi in the book of Ruth and David and Jonathan in 1 Samuel 18-20 and 2 Samuel 1.

    3. THE BIBLE TRANSLATORS AND PUBLISHERS WHO PERSIST IN USING EVIL HOMOPHOBIC “TRANSLATIONS FROM HELL” TO WOUND AND DESTROY LESBIANS AND GAYS MUST BE CHALLENGED AND CORRECTED.
    Jesus never mentioned homosexuality. Distortion of the gospel into attacks on homosexuals demands a clear and effective response now!

    4.THE BIBLE REPEATEDLY DEMONSTRATES GOD’S LOVE, CARE AND ACCEPTANCE OF ALL OUTCAST, REJECTED, MISUNDERSTOOD AND ALIENATED PEOPLE.

    Jason at 3:55pm February 4
    I respect that you have an opinion Paul, but you aren’t the judge. God is, and thats where the buck stops. You can’t choose one set of bible condemnations, which are out of date and not in line with todays life and forget that tere are many other verses that we don’t adhere to at all. (sacrificing children while wearing leather and cotton, women talking in church etc etc etc. If you choose one and demand someone lives by it then you must demand I live by ALL of them or none of them.

    Jason at 3:57pm February 4
    There are many Christians today who will try to take Jesus away from us. So to all you Christians who don’t have room in your heart for gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender, intersex, queer and questioning people…I will remind you of the story of the Pharisees…the upright religious leaders of the day:
    “While Jesus was having dinner at Matthew’s house, many tax collectors and “sinners” came and ate with him and his disciples. When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and ‘sinners’?” On hearing this, Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”- Matt 9:10-13
    Oh and a reminder…we are all sinners. You and me.
    “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,” – Romans 3:23
    And remember Jesus’ woe to the Pharisees:

    Jason at 3:58pm February 4
    And remember Jesus’ woe to the Pharisees:
    “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the dominion of heaven in people’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.” – Matthew 23:13
    So because of people like this, we have seen countless GLBTIQ people who once loved the Lord who now feel separated from God because of the voices drummed into their heads by “Christians”. Christians who send the message of hate and hopelessness:
    “God hates you. You are going to hell. You can’t be gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender AND Christian at the same time. You’re an abomination to God.”
    Hmmm. A real sweet bunch of folks, huh? By telling us that we are going to hell…you are saying more about yourself than about us.

    Jason at 4:01pm February 4
    There is too much to write so I have posted a couple of things in my livejournal. Please go have a look at it.

    These are things that were sent to me and you have a right to have a look any time you like.

    You will find my livejournal link in my profile.

    Paul at 4:10pm February 4
    dear jason,
    correct, God is the judge… i’m just the brother who reminded you about that God.
    i have admitted that i am a sinner. my concern is that you do not admit your sin; rather, you defend it (before men).
    i haven’t said anything about you going to hell, or about abominations.
    correct also, Jesus came to heal the sick… and He did, in fact HEAL them… He didn’t just say, “i accept your illness, go and continue sinning.” He said quite the opposite.
    i will pray for you jason; but i fear that a line has been crossed… you’ve cut yourself into a happy little hole, and you are determined to resist the savior. you love the hole. you don’t “want” to be saved.

  13. Dear Loose,

    This person is not interested in knowing Jesus. He is unwilling to repent, and enjoys his sin. There is nothing more you can do for him. It is not your failure, it is his. Leave him behind, and go on to those who will listen.

    blessings
    marianne

  14. “Mona Lisa” talks through her nose.

  15. Queen of Heaven and Jezebel…..same thing/person/spirit? hmmmm

    http://www.christian-faith.com/forjesus/jezebel-spirit

  16. Exposing sin and the works of sin is very essential at any time. So we can warn those who are not familiar to these false prophets.

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