Joel’s excuse

 

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It is one thing for God to speak to us personally through his Word.

It is another thing to claim He is giving us direct, or special, messages for others.

There are true Words from God, and then, there is “word” from man’s imagination.

The scripture all the misguided prophets misuse as their permission to prophesy:

Joe 2:28 ¶ And it shall come to pass afterward, [that] I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

Joe 2:29   And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

This passage from Joel is being abused by the church, to enhance a sense of specialness, importance and superiority in immature believers, who want a quick path to the power of God.

From what I have seen so far, most people use their imagination and listen to their own human voice, maybe with good intentions, and give misguided messages and cause more delusion than insight.

The “God is showing me this” syndrome is an epidemic in the church.

Glory seeking believers go to classes now to learn to “read” people, or just use their “psychic or gifted nature” God has granted them.

This is not God.

These are delusions of grandeur. It is acting out the desire to be much greater and more powerful and closer to God than one really is.

The person receiving the “prophecy” is usually too naïve to realize what is happening, and goes along with it out of ignorance.

A true prophet is rare.

Even Israel only had one or two at a time for an entire nation. God did not have every Hebrew running around saying, “God just told me this.”

And just because Joel said this, does not grant every person who wants the gift of prophecy “words” for others, or even themselves.

Who is Joel really speaking to?

If you read Joel in context, he is speaking to the “children of Zion” (2:23) for the last days, when Jacob’s trouble starts (2:1).

He is not talking about the church, although the church was blessed at Pentecost, and spiritual gifts can still be real today.

In context

Verses 1-23 talk about an invasion, and that God will protect his people Israel with an outpouring of the Holy Spirit.

Joe 2:1 ¶ Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for [it is] nigh at hand;

Joe 2:2   A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, [even] to the years of many generations.

The enemy is defeated (v20),

Joe 2:20   But I will remove far off from you the northern [army], and will drive him into a land barren and desolate, with his face toward the east sea, and his hinder part toward the utmost sea, and his stink shall come up, and his ill savour shall come up, because he hath done great things.

and Israel is restored (v25).

Joe 2:25   And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you.

Finally, afterward, the Spirit of God is poured out on Israel, not before.

Joe 2:28 ¶ And it shall come to pass afterward, [that] I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

Joe 2:29   And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

This all occurs at the 6th seal of revelation (see v 31, which matches Rev 6).

Joe 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

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What the New Testament says about gifts

(1) Can we desire a gift to prophesy? Yes.

1Cr 14:1 ¶ Follow after charity, and desire spiritual [gifts], but rather that ye may prophesy.

1Cr 14:5   I would that ye all spoke with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater [is] he that prophesies than he that speaks with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

1Cr 14:12   Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual [gifts], seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.

1Cr 14:24   But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or [one] unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:

1Cr 14:26 ¶ How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

(2) Each person is given a gift according to grace, not according to our desire. So, even if we desire to prophesy, does not mean we will get this gift.

Rom 12:6   Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, [let us prophesy] according to the proportion of faith;

Rom 12:7   Or ministry, [let us wait] on [our] ministering: or he that teaches, on teaching;

Rom 12:8   Or he that exhorts, on exhortation: he that gives, [let him do it] with simplicity; he that rules, with diligence; he that shows mercy, with cheerfulness.

1Cr 12:4   Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.

1Cr 12:5   And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.

1Cr 12:8   For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;

1Cr 12:9   To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;

1Cr 12:10   To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another [divers] kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:

1Cr 12:11   But all these works that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

(3) God decides which gift is given. Not all have the same gift.

1Cr 12:28   And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

1Cr 12:29   [Are] all apostles? [are] all prophets? [are] all teachers? [are] all workers of miracles?

1Cr 12:30   Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

(4) Is there a way to judge if prophecy is true? Yes.

1Cr 14:29   Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.

Deuteronomy 18:22 If a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD but the thing does not take place or prove true, it is a word that the LORD has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; do not be frightened by it.

Deuteronomy 18:15 The LORD your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among your own people; you shall heed such a prophet. . . .

Deuteronomy 18:18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their own people; I will put my words in the mouth of the prophet, who shall speak to them everything that I command.

Deuteronomy 18:19 Anyone who does not heed the words that the prophet shall speak in my name, I myself will hold accountable.

(5)  False prophecy is a serious sin

Deuteronomy 18:20 But any prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, or who presumes to speak in my name a word that I have not commanded the prophet to speak–that prophet shall die.”

 

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Conclusion

So, Joel is not an excuse for everyone in the church to think they have the gift of prophecy.

He was speaking to Israel anyhow.

A gift is a gift, and it cannot be conjured up, by getting quiet and using our imaginations.

Once you have been around a true prophet, not the nickel and dime variety we see now, you will be able to immediately see the difference.

God speaks to us in His Word every day, but that does not make us prophets.

Entertaining the delusion of prophecy can open the door to demonic oppression, either for the “prophet,” or for the one receiving the prophecy.

Extreme care, discernment, and fear of the Lord should be used in evaluating such “messages” from God, as they can falsely influence a person to action, or inaction, which is inappropriate, and not in God’s will.

Reference:

The 2nd chapter of Joel can be read here:

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Joe&c=2&v=28&t=KJV#28


51 Responses to “Joel’s excuse”

  1. Do do believe that God has a “chosen people”, and if so, what was special about these people, so as to be chosen? It is my understanding that Jesus brought redemption for all those who repent and follow him. Does this override God’s original concept of a chosen people? If I repent my sins and follow Jesus, does this mean that I can upon death be saved, even though I do not belong to the chosen people?

    • hi oscar,

      I think a better question would be – what was Israel chosen for? And in Jesus, what are we chosen for?

      Israel was chosen to bring the truth of Torah to the world, and preserve it through generations. It was also chosen to produce the Messiah, and to face the final conflict with Satan’s forces in the last days.

      Once Jesus the Messiah came, some things changed. The door was open to anyone who would except salvation. More gentiles than Jews accepted him.

      There is a prophecy that grace and blessings will be on the church – Jew and non Jew – until the “time of the gentiles” has ended. This will be very soon.

      Once this “church age” is finished, God’s covenant with Israel picks up, as the final battle approaches. It is now the “time of the Jews,” rather than the “time of the gentiles.”

      Israel’s redemption will be complete at this time.

      So the point is, all are chosen, but who will come when they hear His voice?

      The Church has had its chance to respond, and soon Israel will be given another chance.

      God wishes that none should perish.

  2. When will people understand that Jesus brought the new covenant to Israel…Christianity is built on the foundation of the Israelite apostles and Israelite first converts of Christianity.. These people had children and their children had children.. THE BLOOD LINES OF ISRAEL IS IN CHRISTINITY….Because part of Israel rejected Jesus and the new covenant God opened the door to Gentiles..These are adopted into the Abrahamic family via Jesus.. When God speaks of Israel did he forget all the Israelites who shed their blood 2000 years ago for Jesus and for us…and now recognizes as Israel only those who refused the new covenant and Jesus.. I think not…

    Hebrews 3-15..While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
    Rev 19-10..for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

    I have heard from god all my life….The only time I could not hear his voice or feel his leading was when I was being tested…
    The things He has shown me over the years about Bible scriptures have always proven to be true and there is always verification in other verses..
    For instance the two sealed mysteries in Genesis 1-26 and Genesis 3-15..Jesus himself expounded these two mysteries in Matthew 13-35-40…
    Maybe, just maybe no one has ever connected these three verses is because they refuse to hear god’s voice or follow his leading.. and then again maybe they try to connect biblical verses to current events instead of connecting them to other bible verses which reveals answers..
    The first day I read the Bible I was acutely aware that I did not know the answers.. And soon I became painfully aware that men have few answers…It was a short walk to Jesus to get answers.. I guess the know it all intellect has to go before we can receive the real truths

  3. I almost forgot, I love the little picture at the top of this page… It looks like mohammed on the desert telling people to follow him, that he is the way…Now that is a true answer to prophecy…Mohammed was a counterfeit of Jesus and was antichrist.
    The bearded men and the woman with her hair covering look like followers of mohammed..plus the dessert sand..

    A picture is worth a thousand words…

  4. ‘Children of Zion’, according to scripture (Ga 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham ), is all who are of the faith of Abraham. They, plus the millions of genetic decendents of Abraham are scattered from the four corners of the earth. Many who believe themselves to be gentiles, are actually genetically descended from the hundreds of thousands of the twelve tribes of Israel. Only God knows as they are numbered as the sands of the sea. God began showing me visions to reveal His Word when I was in first grade. They were real and they were important. But you are correct in there are MANY false prophets. But there are also real ones….as you said. God does still speak to His prophets…to those who seek His voice and ‘hear’ His voice…His sheep. True prophets today seem generally to be given knowledge of the state of the world….according to God.’ I do, in essence prophesy…out of knowledge of scripture given me by the teaching and discernment of the Holy Spirit. But we are in the days where Truth is generally rejected. ‘2ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;’ I am very careful where I display these ‘pearls.’

    • that is the theme song from the TV show “Miami Vice.” 🙂

      • Why would ‘Miami Vice’ adopt that song? 🙂

        • I think the song was written for the show. Back in the 80’s.

          • Here are the words of Phil Collins himself …
            ‘I don’t know what this song is about. When I was writing this I was going through a divorce. And the only thing I can say about it is that it’s obviously in anger. It’s the angry side, or the bitter side of a separation. So what makes it even more comical is when I hear these stories which started many years ago, particularly in America, of someone come up to me and say, ‘Did you really see someone drowning?’ I said, ‘No, wrong’. And then every time I go back to America the story gets Chinese whispers, it gets more and more elaborate. It’s so frustrating, ‘cos this is one song out of all the songs probably that I’ve ever written that I really don’t know what it’s about, you know.’
            From the U.K. Phil’s first solo was a major success!
            Late miami vice adopted it.
            Maybe because Phil performed for the secret policemen ball ??
            Either way he did not write this song fro T.V.

  5. extra thoughts:

    I do not consider anyone who has to “grow in the prophetic” as prophetic at all.

    Prophecy is not a technique that is learned. It is a direct message from god, and no practice is required.

    If the person is practicing, or has to “grow,” then they are doing this on their own power, instead of allowing God to flow through them.

    it is just human effort, learning to speak its mental impressions.

  6. Foolish little ones .Do you think that you can command God to do your binding for you the way you want it ? God is not only your Creator but He is also your master ,without his help you are nothing but dust in the win, Think about it should God decide to take away the air that you breed you will die instantly Ungrateful generation! in our existence man has never been given such an abundance as we have now nor has anyone lived as long as we have or given the strength as we have now .yet you defy Him who is your Savior and master .shame on you! It is because of scum like you that we are about to be punished terribly 2/3 of the population of the earth will not make it to the year 2020 but will be incinerated by God nothing will be left but ashes .do you think that you have the right to drag the human race into such a chastisement ? What about the little children who have done no wrong but because you refused to baptize them and kept them in mortal sin they too will suffer the same faith as we.Again i say shame on you 1 Our precious Lord Jesus Christ warns us not to trow our pearls to swines, for swines that is all that anyone questioning God’s commandments and siding with Satan when it comes to Child baring as well as homosexuality gratifying fornication ,pried, arrogance and many other sines which the Almighty God has forbidden is destined for the fires of Hell

    • ??? I do not understand who this comment is directed to….

    • Shame on all who believe in an unmerciful, cruel and genocidal God. Open your eyes. God is not about revenge or apocalypse. God has no chosen people. Prophets are people who bring wisdom and share it with all of us. God wouldn’t take a selected few to some sort of paradise just because they believe in certain things or not. A God like that would be closer to your own ideas of Satan and such malevolent entities. A loving God would understand our shortcomings and fears, and would not take revenge on us for that. He/she (I can’t think of God as a man) would equally embrace humanity and would understand that the just, the fair, and the hard-working and loving people are not exclusively jewish, muslim, christian or, for that matter, agnostic. Peace be with all of us.

      • dear Oscar,

        God is as you describe. He is not hateful, unmerciful, or genocidal.

        Any evil in the world is due to Satan and man’s negative nature.

        God desires for us to know and accept Jesus, as he came to teach us the love of God.

        • My point is: not necessarily through Jesus. I believe God would want us to accept love in our hearts, for everyone. If you find that love through Jesus, and you give love to those around you, you’ll be blessed just as equally as if you do it through your own devices. Again, I believe that God would understand perfectly well my reasons for being skeptical about many things in the Bible. He would not take revenge on me because he is merciful and loving. Cheers.

  7. How far inland does salt water travel???

  8. Marianne, thank you for posting this. I believe that there are many who feel that they are “receiving” messages from God, concerning themselves and others when this isn’t the case. I do believe that the Lord leads us and guides us and He can speak to us, through His Word. There have been times when I have been “led” by Him to do things that I didn’t initially understand. I have always been careful to pray for discernment and guidance and to also seek confirmation through His Word. I know many who tell others that they have had “dreams” about their “call” or that they have “had a word from the Lord” concerning them; I have seen people stumbled and frustrated by these individuals when they haven’t “jumped on the band wagon” either. My relationship with the Lord is personal; it is intimate. I have a hard time believing others when they share their “revelations” about the Lord’s plan for my life. As you said, there are many who are spritually immature and use these “prophetic proclamations” to inflate their status or their credibility in the church. I have found people like this to be dangerous to the body; they often stand in judgment of others because they believe that they have special favor with God that other’s don’t possess. They wear an air of false humility and false piety and it causes a lot of problems in the family of believers because, as I said, it is a potential stumbling block. It can also be an instument of toxicity that can weave it’s way into a church and cause many offenses that can result in divisions of the congregation. As a Christian, it is my responsiblity to be accountable to my brother and to God – I am accountable to my brother and to my Lord for the things that come out of mouth. I fear that this “quick” ascent to power and favor before the Lord is just another form of deception that Satan uses to tear down the church and it’s mission. Thank you for your post – be blessed sister.

  9. Hi Marainne,

    Very good observation.

    I didn’t know that some Christians used verses from Joel in their advantage, it is very clear that this will occur AFTER Redemption, on the other hand this is what God says to those who prophesy BEFORE Redemption:

    “3 And it shall come to pass that, when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begot him shall say unto him: ‘Thou shalt not live, for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD’; and his father and his mother that begot him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth.

    4 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be brought to shame every one through his vision, when he prophesieth; neither shall they wear a hairy mantle to d

    5 but he shall say: ‘I am no prophet, I am a tiller of the ground; for I have been made a bondman from my youth.’

    6 And one shall say unto him: ‘What are these wounds between thy hands?’ Then he shall answer: ‘Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.”

    (Zech. 13)

    • 4 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be brought to shame every one through his vision, when he prophesieth; neither shall they wear a hairy mantle to deceive;

  10. Sorry but you are not right when you say that the prophecy of Joel was to Jews of actuality ( pay attention to the verse 16): Read:
    Acts 2:
    15These men are not drunk, as you suppose. It’s only nine in the morning!
    16No, this is what was spoken by the prophet Joel:
    17″ ‘In the last days, God says,
    I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
    Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
    your young men will see visions,
    your old men will dream dreams.
    And also, Jes have had their opportunity already . And those who accepted were included in the Spiritual Israel. Those who not , gave us their places to be the real Israel. There is not saved by law and Saved by Jesus. There is just one way. Jews of law or blood are not saved . Only through Jesus.
    The prophecy of Joel was about the start of Church and the gift of the comforter. Already fulfilled .

    • Hi Marcelo

      Did you see the sequence mentioned by Joel above (under context)? It comes right before the 6th seal. What do you think of that?

  11. I think the false prophets mostly spoken of in the bible are the false prophets of the broad way of matt 7 and the false prophets of the earth beast of Rev. 13..These false teachers are also classified as having the spirit of antichrist in 2nd john and of course 2 peter 2…These are the muslims who say the koran is god’s words..These false prophets in Rev 13-13 actually cause fire to come down from heaven and convince the world the beast is the god i.e. allah…same as the false prophets of baal tried to do but could not..
    The koran is the gospel of antichrist as clarified in gal 1-8, 2 corinthinas 11 – 14,4, zech 5-1,2,3, rev 10 and matthew 24-14,15…If you read matthew 24-14,15 you will see the gospel of the kingdom the false prophets and false christ of this chapter bring is also called the abomination of desolation…THESE ARE THE FALSE PROPHETS THAT BRING WRATH..
    Christians who misinterpret the bible are just not too bright.. These are not the false prophets that cause god’s wrath..

    The truth is no one and I mean absolutely no understands the bible correctly unless the lord reveal it.. and he most definately does reveal it..and the bible proves itsself..

    • hi ruth

      I agree that misguided Christians are not as bad as false prophets who do this intentionally. The misguided Christians can cause problems however, if you believe them, and they are way off on what they tell you.

  12. Even those who eat under the table have at times more sense than man!

  13. If you look at the Book of Acts closely, the Day of Pentecost was a Holy Spirit Baptism for 12 people NOT 120 plus 12.
    Chapter 2 is preceded by the appointing of Matthias, as the replacement of Judas.
    As it states, They cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias, so he was added to the eleven apostles. Next sentence then says, When the day of Pentecost came, THEY were all together in one place!
    The whole book of Acts is full of the apostles only, being able to transfer the Spirit of God by the laying on of THEIR hands!.
    Pentecostal Churches have it wrong by stating the whole believers were in filled by the Holy Spirit!.

    • I don´t agree with that, because of the numbers and different kinds of nations and peoples mentioned . No doubts this is not correct about only 12 : Look : 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
      5And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
      6Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
      7And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
      8And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
      9Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,
      10Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
      11Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
      12And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?

    • good observation. it also says in the same chapter:

      Act 2:14 ¶ But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all [ye] that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

  14. I don´t agree with that, because of the numbers and different kinds of nations and peoples mentioned . No doubts this is not correct about only 12 : Look : 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

    5And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

    6Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.

    7And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?

    8And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

    9Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judaea, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,

    10Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,
    11Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
    12And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?

  15. Marianne: I like that you took apart Joel 2 for us but you do need to remember something about it… Peter DID reference Joel 2 at Pentecost, saying “This is that the Prophet Joel spoke of…” the pouring out of the charismatic/pentecostal gifts of the Spirit.

    You need to realize what Joel was seeing was the counterfeit antiChrist army of Joel 2, whom most of the NAR (IHOP Mike Bickle, Lou Engle, Bob Jones, Rick Joyner, Todd Bentley etc., etc.) believe they ARE the Joel 2 Army!

    And they think it is a good thing! Joel was seeing the ‘great delusion” that will come over the whole world, the “strong delusion” that God promises He will send on those who “have received not the love of the truth” in Thessolonians.

    Joel was seeing the Dominionist movement of the NAR, who believe they must “Take governments and nations and kingdoms” for Christ IN ORDER THAT CHRIST returns to the earth! This is the Manifest Sons of God heresy. They actually teach and believe this!

    They believe that THEIR “prophets’ and THEIR “apostles” such as Dutch Sheets, Chuck Pierce, Cindy Jacobs, Paul Cain, Ryan Wyatt, Patricia King, Bill Johnson, C Peter Wagner will be the ones who “institute the New Jerusalem on earth”…

    They believe that Jesus is not coming back until He “comes back” or “is manifest” in the corporate body of believers.

    Read that again.

    They believe Jesus is not coming back for the Second Coming until THEY THEMSELVES are made pure of ALL sin, and are invincible and bullet proof (Paul Cain has said that they will not be able to be killed!) and that WHEN this happens, that is how THEY will build the New Jerusalem on earth.

    You read that right.

    They believe THEY will build the Temple.

    Guess what Joel was seeing?

    Joel was seeing these deluded Christians, the “army” of Joel 2 that the NAR already believe they are… they will kill ANY Christian who disagrees with them and of course, they will believe that the antiChrist is JESUS HIMSELF.

    The one world government of the antiChrist is not just a political thing. It is a RELIGIOUS government.

    Otherwise, how would these scriptures be true?

    “They will kill you and believe they are doing a duty for God” in the End Times.

    But they are apostates of Hell.

    Now that their “greatest outpouring of false revival” has failed at Lakeland, and discerning Christians have rejected much of what GODTV and Rick Joyner have tried to do in “restoring” Todd Bentley after his adultery and false prophesying and false miracles… they are now pushing that they have to look forward to this Manifest Sons of God thing happening to them — instead of the “revival’.

    Guess what? Neither a great end times “revival” nor a ‘restoration of the positions of the OT Prophets or NT Apostles” is in the works for the End Times.

    Latter Days, also in the book of Joel and other places like Jeremiah — “Latter Days” only refers to Pentecost. A lot of us have been confused over that point for a long time. Latter Days is when the gifts were poured out on mankind.

    The Tribulation period is not the same as the Latter Days.

    The Latter Days are not the same as the End Times.

    The Latter Days are the days Jesus spoke of “that the prophets looked forward to this day but did not live to see it” when the gifts were poured out.

    It is vitally important that you deconstructed Joel as you did. However I do think that the gifts are poured out on each believer after Pentecost who comes to the Lord and the restoration of their souls “I will restore to you the years that the Locust have eaten, etc.,” is a constant restoration in our daily lives, not just a future event.

    The Joel 2 Army of deluded Dominionist AntiChrists and false prophets will be the most fiercesome army that will make Stalin, Mohammed and Hitler look like silly nillys.

    They will be empowered by familiar spirits that will know all of our secret sins.

    This is why the remnant of God now must purify themselves and be ready to “not love our lives unto death” because it will come to that. If we can exercise our faith now — and purify ourselves == and rid ourselves of all idols of materialism and anything that is not of God now — we will be ready to face this foe.

    The End Times and not taking the mark of the Beast will be a time of purification for the saints. We are not to be afraid but rather, determined to digest the Word of God now so that we are ready to hear His voice at an instant.

    P.S. Jezebel who is the whore of Babylon, will always berate the saints for our personal Cross and will try to get all to “whore themselves” out for food, for safety, for any pleasure etc. This is a whore spirit that goes beyond sexual seduction but any type of idolatry that would come before God in our hearts.

  16. hi
    Thanks a lot for the insight on false prophets. Even Jesus our Messiah warned against the Holy Ghost blaspheme and who ever practise it is in danger of external damnation. Mark 3 vs 29, We bless God

  17. Vincent Selvakumar, prophet of God from Tamil Nadu, India has said that to prepare the way for the first coming of Jesus Christ, one prophet(John the Baptist) was sufficient to sound the trumpet, as Jesus was coming only to one country, a small area called Israel. But the second coming of Jesus is for the whole world to see. So God needs many people to sound the trumpet about the second coming. Through the end times anointing, everyone, from children to old people will receive some revelations about Jesus, End Times and Second Coming. Do not know if this can be called as gift of prophesy and these people prophets, but all willing vessels will receive revelations which they can use to point Jesus and Second Coming to the unsaved mass. It seems the end times anointing will be different from anointing received in the first century. It will cause people to see more and do more for God. This end times anointing is also prophetic anointing. What I understand is that the church age will soon come to an end and kingdom age will begin. The five fold ministry in the church will also end and only the prophetic ministry will be used.

    Sadhu Sundar Selvaraj, another prophet from India has said this – when a person is about to die, his spiritual eyes are opened during his last 15 minutes. That’s why we hear many testimonies about seeing angels, chariots, Jesus or evil spirits in the deathbed. As the earth is in its end minutes and about to die, its spiritual eyes are also opened. So more and more people now have visions and dreams and see the spiritual realm more clearly.

    About these things both of them have talked in the recent prophetic conference in Jerusalem. The report of which is available here.

    http://www.coffeetalkswithmessiah.com/assets/openheavens09report.pdf

    http://communionchurchministries.org/templates/System/details.asp?id=48131&PG=Events&CID=967095&rDate=2009-12-26

    Vincent Selvakumar’s web site and his prophecy for the year 2010:
    http://www.voiceofjesus.in/Prophecy%20for%20the%20year_2010.pdf

    • hello Golda,

      Thank you for the information. I think it is remarkable that her predicted a problem with the water and a connection to a state in America. We now have an oil spill that is quickly contaminating all the water in the Gulf Coast, off of the state of Louisiana.

  18. Marianne

    This is what comes to my mind when I think about false prophets:

    when people speak words in the Name of the Lord
    and they did not actually receive these words from Him
    but speak out of their own heart-
    don’t get me wrong- they can be very loving and concerning,
    often they want to comfort other people with their words-

    but in my understanding
    this is misusing the Name of Adonai.
    Perhaps they are not aware,
    that this is totally against His third commandment.

    shabat shalom

  19. Wow!~ I agree with Arise my Love, and I believ i nthe Prophetic Ministry! Although a lot is happening where we see false prophets rising even now in the church of God! I have even encountered a minister who ha snow changed his teaching because of a Vision he said he had from the Lord! I had to confont him on it because he was my Pastor! The Lord gave me the Grace and His spirit to challenge that spirit with “TRUTH” in the Word of God! I thank God for discernment to know the difference, and even though I had to get out of that church, my soul bleeds for he saints that are there still in darkness! I have warn some,and prayed for others, but they still remained anyway! I believe God wants us to stand up now for the truth. This has been my prayer for a long time that false prophets be uncovered! We have to challenge that spirit in the spirit! My heart longs for Jesus to return so that we can be delivered from this ungodly, sinful world we live and exist in! This is wh yI am after souls to receive Jesus in my family, communinity, and in the marketplace. Thanks so much for the insight and warning @Arise my love. Thanks Marrianne for waking up the church!!!

  20. A prophetic person is usually a different type individual that seeks no glory either.

  21. Hi Marianne

    Very good topic and discussion.Concerning Acts chapter 2:5-10 what make you of the fact that these Jews,devout men they were called,and the proselytes or gentile converts to Judaism,that came to the first Harvest festival after Jesus’ ascension,were drawn out of every nation under the Heavens? (Acts 2:9-11)

    A careful/thoughtful reading of Acts 2 and its parallel passages and references,tells me that this particular Harvest festival/Pentecost was not only the fulfillment of Joel 2:28,29, Isaiah 44:3,4 and Ezekiel 11:19,but included the grafting in of gentiles whom believed the Gospel,received the gift of the Spirit,and so were of the souls added to the church (Acts 2:41).

    I believe that God’s promises to that OT generation was indeed fulfilled at this particular Harvest Festival.That these were the children/offspring of those whom God scattered through out the Nations.

    Moreover,Peter says to them (this generation) that the promise was not only to them,but to their children of future generations (Acts 2:39)

    This is why i do not worry about false prophets,groups or organizations.Despite all of these so called messengers of God,there is yet to be an even greater fulfillment of Acts chapter 2,Joel,2:28,29, Isaiah 44:3,4 and Ezekiel 11:19 before Jesus returns.That this will result in ‘all Israel’ being saved.Not the State of Israel,and not every Jew in the world,but the true Israel.All those whom believe in Jesus…

    What say you?

    • hi Seroled

      I think the moment of Pentecost was a significant event, and when it happened, it appeared that Joel’s prophecy had been fulfilled.

      They thought that because they did not know what else could possibly happen, and how 2000 years would pass before another similar event would occur.

      The outpouring of the holy spirit was real, but I think that was a separate event, not predicted by Joel. They just thought it was.

      Only a small number received this gift, and then the phenomenon died out for almost 2000 years.

      The event predicted by Joel is connected to the time of Jacob’s trouble, and when it happens, all Israel will be under the outpouring of the holy spirit, not just 120 people.

      I think maybe this pentecost was part of what could be referred to as the former rain, which would be followed by a latter rain, but in each case, the event occurs in Israel first.

      Any holy spirit event is genuine…how each event fits into prophecy has to be evaluated by examining the scriptures and seeing how it fits into the over all context.

  22. Hi Marianne and thank you for your response.

    Yes i do agree with you that only a small number,the twelve or 120 at Pentecost received the gift(s) of the Spirit, tongues,prophecy etc.For it is written in 1 Corithians 12 and 13 that not all believers in that church had these particular ‘gifts’ Not all spoke in known dialects and languages (tongues) or had the gift of prophecy,healing and the working miracles.Yet All were baptized into the one body by the same Spirit.

    The baptism of the Spirit has not to do with spiritual gifts,such as tongues,prophecy,miracles etc etc.Otherwise one or more of the Apostles would have to be present even today,to lay hands on those chosen by God to receive these gifts.

    The baptism of the Spirit simply means to be indwelled by the Spirit of God and Christ.It speaks to the promises of Isaiah 44:3,4 and Ezekiel 11:19,20.There is no doubt that the out pouring of God’s Spirit took place at Pentecost as written in Joel 2:28,29,however it should be evaluated,and fit in its proper context.You have stated that well.The overall teaching of ALL scripture cannot be compromised to prove or disprove anything.

    Peter’s sermon was the preaching of the Gospel,this supports what the Apostle Paul wrote in Romans 10:14-17.Therefore,my understanding of what Peter meant in Acts 2:38 was that All who believed would receive the ‘gift’ of the Spirit. Better said,they would be indwelled by the Spirit.This would support what is written in Ephesians 1:10-14.The Jews were the first to believe in Jesus.Yet there is no doubt that the church of Pentecost,if you will,included gentile converts to Judaism,which were present at the first Harvest festival after the ascension.Jew and Gentile heard the preaching of the Gospel and believed,and were baptized into the one body of Christ.

    Thanks Marianne

    • Unless you believe in the RISEN CHRIST you are all lost!!!
      That and only that is the True Gospel!
      You argue over and beyond … gentiles … jews … gentiles … jews …
      Know this day that whatever your uniform or your DNA is ….
      UNLESS you know the RISEN CHRIST ….
      Better yet UNLESS THE RISEN CHRIST has RISEN in YOU ….
      YOU are all LOSTTTTT!!

      • AND DEAD you are are if He does NOT know your name!
        I am sooooo sick of all these religious/theologists/analytical/lawyers of a law they do not know nor serve …
        I am soooooo sick of betrayals! If you don’t know Him then know at least that He knows the hypocrite!

        • Ahh Abigail,you should really calm down just a bit,ya think???

          It is these kinds of overly enthusiastic you LOSTTTT if you don’t know him statements,that keep the unsaved running away from Jesus and your form of Churchianity… You said that you were sick? Sorry about that,hope you get well soon,my dear.

          • How calm will they be when they hear …
            “DEPART FROM ME YOU WHO DESPISES ME!!”
            I am not here to sugar coat the True Gospel.
            Unless you KNOW THE Risen Christ you are INDEED Lost!

            Running away from Him?? He is the Resurrection!
            Where can they run to??
            Is there a place you can hide??
            No !! Even the grave cannot hide you from HIM!!

            • Abigail, I just love you, you hate evil, you are blessed.

            • Why am i not surprised that you missed the point Abigail?

              You’d rather scare ‘Hell’ out of the unsaved than take the time to learn yourself,and then pass on the teaching to the LOSTTTT (your word) of reconciliation to God through his Son Jesus.Shame on you and Churchianity, Abigail,shame.

              That’s my last word to you…

          • People are apostate and reprobate now.

  23. Get you face out of the bible and take a good look around you! The rivers are not flowing as they should, there is flooding, there is pollution. The EARTH HAS BEEN SHIFTING…..PROPHACY DOES HAPPEN DURING THIS PERIOD IN ONE FORM OR ANOTHER. The shifting was estimated to be in the year 2012 HOWEVER IT HAS BEEN HAPPENING FOR SINCE 2009 OR SOONER RIGHT UP TO NOW. WE ARE NEARING THE END OF THIS SHIFT BUT THE PEOPLE ON THIS PLANET NEED TO WAKE UP AND SMELL REALITY. OPEN UP THOSE RIVERS AND UNDERGROUND SPRINGS BEFORE THIS PLANET “EXPLODES”.

    • Get you face out of the bible and take a good look around you!

      Rose; The bible is the ONLY Answer.

    • hi Rosemary

      The bible is not a bad place to find information. But science and current events have also made what should be obvious – very clear. what is your philosophy and how do you respond to all this? what are you going to do?

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