Messiah, and the State of Israel

–

Does the bible indicate that the Messiah has to come to the land of Israel FIRST, and establish peace, before Jews can return, and the nation of Israel can legitimately exist again?

–

I am writing this because a dear friend of mine will not speak to me now because I disagree with him.

He thinks the current state of Israel is just a “Zionist conspiracy” that has no right to exist, and the only legitimate Israel that can exist, according to the Bible, is a land AFTER the Messiah has come.

I hope he reads this. Maybe this will help.

My position is that Israel returned from its captivity to the land, in 1948, as predicted in the bible.

The Messiah shows up to deliver Israel from its enemies.

So, the state of unredeemed Israel is there, and deliverance comes to it as Messiah saves it from its enemies.

I will outline, book by book, what each of the prophets say about the final return of the Jews to Israel.

And here, I mean the descendants of Jacob, not just the one tribe of Judah. God’s promise of restoration applied to all 12 tribes, the entire nation.

Acknowledged also that through the ages, there has been intermarriages, or conversions, but the Hebrew/ Israelite nation still exists.

The promises of God still apply, whether someone is ½ Jewish, a Jewish convert, or just “born that way.”

–

–

Old Testament

Jeremiah

Aliyah – 2 kinds – fished and hunted- this implies that the return will first come by invitation, as in the establishment of the Zionist state of Israel.

Then the rest will come as they flee their persecutors.

Neither of these descriptions imply the Messiah has come, as with Messiah there would be

1. no need to “fish”

2. no persecution from hunters

Prior to 1948, there was already a Jewish presence in Israel. After 1948, Jews came both by invitation, and in flight from persecution after the holocaust.

Jer 16:15   But, The LORD lives, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers.

Jer 16:16 ¶ Behold, I will send for many fishers, says the LORD, and they shall fish them; and after will I send for many hunters, and they shall hunt them from every mountain, and from every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks

–

–

Ezekiel

God raises up Israel from the grave, and forms an army, and re-births the nation. IF Messiah has already come, Israel will not need an army. 

Eze 37:10   So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army.

Eze 37:11 ¶ Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.

Eze 37:12   Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus says the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.

Eze 37:21   And say unto them, Thus says the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:

Eze 37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, [even] they, and their children, and their children’s children for ever: and my servant David [shall be] their prince for ever.

** David the prince here is a reference to the Messiah, which is a descendent of David. However, it speaks of this person as a promise to be fulfilled. He is not there yet.

If he were, the nation would not be described as a pile of bones.

The resurrection of dry bones occurs first (verses 10-12). They then dwell in the land, and the Messiah is finally mentioned last (verse 25).

–

–

Gog Invasion (chapters 38-39) occurs next – Messiah not mentioned yet.

Some believe that this is the same invasion that occurs after the millennium described in Revelation. But as far as the OT goes, the Messiah is not mentioned. Others believe that this is the battle of Armageddon, and that there is a second invasion later.

Eze 38:2   Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,

Eze 38:3   And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I [am] against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

Eze 38:4   And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts [of armour, even] a great company [with] bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:

Eze 38:5   Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:

Eze 38:8   After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years thou shalt come into the land [that is] brought back from the sword, [and is] gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them.

*** Point here; there is a promise of safety, but it will not be 100% realized until the Messiah comes.

See the rest of the chapter here:

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Eze&c=38&v=1&t=KJV

God stops the Gog invasion with an earthquake

Eze 38:18 ¶ And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, says the Lord GOD, [that] my fury shall come up in my face.

Eze 38:19   For in my jealousy [and] in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;

Eze 38:20   So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that [are] upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.

The rest is here:

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Eze&c=39&v=1&t=KJV

7 years to burn weapons. Is it possible that Chapter 38 described the first invasion, and Chapter 39 described the second one, if there are 2 invasions?

Eze 39:9 ¶ And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:

The New Temple – vision (Ezekiel 40+) It would make sense that the final Temple would appear AFTER the earthquake described in Ezekiel 38, and not before.

See more here:

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Eze&c=40&v=1&t=KJV

Eastern gate still shut- for the prince to come

Eze 44:1 ¶ Then he brought me back the way of the gate of the outward sanctuary which looks toward the east; and it [was] shut.

Eze 44:2   Then said the LORD unto me; This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter in by it; because the LORD, the God of Israel, hath entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut.

Eze 44:3 [It is] for the prince; the prince, he shall sit in it to eat bread before the LORD; he shall enter by the way of the porch of [that] gate, and shall go out by the way of the same.

*** the eastern gate is currently shut.

Prince shows up by chapter 46? Gate is open

Eze 46:1 ¶ Thus says the Lord GOD; The gate of the inner court that looks toward the east shall be shut the six working days; but on the sabbath it shall be opened, and in the day of the new moon it shall be opened.

Eze 46:2   And the prince shall enter by the way of the porch of [that] gate without, and shall stand by the post of the gate, and the priests shall prepare his burnt offering and his peace offerings, and he shall worship at the threshold of the gate: then he shall go forth; but the gate shall not be shut until the evening.

Waters pour out from the temple area

Eze 47:1 ¶ Afterward he brought me again unto the door of the house; and, behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward: for the forefront of the house [stood toward] the east, and the waters came down from under from the right side of the house, at the south [side] of the altar.

–

–

Zechariah

Zechariah 14 – the nations come against Israel- so Israel is there, if it is being attacked.

No Messiah is mentioned before the attack, but he seems to show up DURING the attack and an earthquake. Living waters flow out of the temple area at some time afterwards.

See more here:

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?t=KJV&x=39&y=7&b=Zec&c=14&v=1

Zec 14:2   For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

Zec 14:3 ¶ Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

Zec 14:4   And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which [is] before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, [and there shall be] a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Zec 14:8 ¶ And it shall be in that day, [that] living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

** Living waters match those from Ezekiel

Punishment of enemies sounds like a nuclear blast- Judah has to fight – no peace yet. So, obviously, it Judah is there fighting in Jerusalem, Judah is there in Israel.

Zec 14:12 ¶ And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Zec 14:10   All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin’s gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and [from] the tower of Hananeel unto the king’s winepresses.

Zec 14:14   And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.

Zec 14:21   Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.

–

–

Joel

Captives return from the nations. There are no Jews literally in captivity now. They were in captivity during the holocaust. Again, an invasion against Israel is mentioned, followed by an earthquake, and the sun and moon turning dark. The spirit of God is poured out over Israel. Since the Lord is delivering Israel, it means it is there, in existence.

Joe 2:1 ¶ Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for [it is] nigh at hand;

Joe 2:2   A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, [even] to the years of many generations.

Joe 2:10   The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:

Joe 2:20 But I will remove far off from you the northern [army], and will drive him into a land barren and desolate, with his face toward the east sea, and his hinder part toward the utmost sea, and his stink shall come up, and his ill savour shall come up, because he hath done great things.

Joe 2:28 ¶ And it shall come to pass afterward, [that] I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

Joe 2:29   And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

Joe 2:30   And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.

Joe 2:31  The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

** described in Rev 6 after the 6^th seal

Rev 6:12 ¶ And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

Joe 2:32   And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

See more here:

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Joe&c=2&v=1&t=KJV

Other clues:

1. the captivity of Judah as it resides in its own land,

2. the gathering in of Israel from all the nations, where it has been scattered, and

3. the parting of the land.

Since 1948, the nations have worked to divide up the land between the Palestinians and the Jews. Even now, they continue to discuss more concessions, including Jerusalem. Jerusalem has to be divided before the trouble starts. Zechariah 14 describes half the city going into captivity during the invasion of the nations. The city has been divided by then.

Joe 3:1 ¶ For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,

Joe 3:2   I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and [for] my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.

Joe 3:4 ¶ Yea, and what have ye to do with me, O Tyre, and Zidon, and all the coasts of Palestine? will ye render me a recompence? and if ye recompense me, swiftly [and] speedily will I return your recompence upon your own head;

*** apparently, God is not happy with the Lebanese and Palestinians. He wants a recompense from them – be paid back for the land they took during the dividing of the land.

Joe 3:14   Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD [is] near in the valley of decision.

Joe 3:15   The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.

Joe 3:16   The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD [will be] the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.

** shaking of land as in an earthquake, Zechariah, Ezekiel

–

–

Isaiah

Jacob (Israel) Called to return after scattered- since the term Jacob is used, it indicates the entire nation, not just the northern or southern kingdom. The term Jacob refers to its unredeemed state, while Israel refers to its final “struggle with God” to get its blessing. Israel is brought back but given a “new sharp threshing instrument having teeth” to prepare it to fight for its identity.

Isa 41:8 ¶ But thou, Israel, [art] my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.

Isa 41:9   [Thou] whom I have taken from the ends of the earth, and called thee from the chief men thereof, and said unto thee, Thou [art] my servant; I have chosen thee, and not cast thee away.

Isa 41:10   Fear thou not; for I [am] with thee: be not dismayed; for I [am] thy God: I will strengthen thee; yea, I will help thee; yea, I will uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness.

Isa 41:15   Behold, I will make thee a new sharp threshing instrument having teeth: thou shall l thresh the mountains, and beat [them] small, and shall make the hills as chaff.

The invasion from the north is referenced here:

Isa 41:25 ¶ I have raised up [one] from the north, and he shall come: from the rising of the sun shall he call upon my name: and he shall come upon princes as [upon] morter, and as the potter treads clay.

Israel returns but is still blind

Isa 42:16   And I will bring the blind by a way [that] they knew not; I will lead them in paths [that] they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them.

The first return – they are ‘gathered” not hunted

Isa 43:5   Fear not: for I [am] with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;

Isa 43:6   I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back: bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth;

Isaiah speaks of the rebirth of Israel, where it gets the support of Gentiles. However, it also notes that there is a time of imperfect peace, where violence and destruction occurs. So, it is before Messiah arrives, not after, that they return.

Isa 60:18   Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shall call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise.

–

Israel is described below as forsaken and desolate, which is appropriate for a nation abandoned by its allies and the world.

God then describes his future “marriage” to Israel, where he can finally rejoice over its final glory as his bride.

Soon, during Jacob’s trouble, Israel will stand alone against the world.

So, again, Israel’s glory will not come until after it has been forsaken and made desolate in its own land, which is something that precedes the Messiahs appearance, not follows it.

Isa 62:2   And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shall be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name.

Isa 62:3 Thou shall also be a crown of glory in the hand of the LORD, and a royal diadem in the hand of thy God.

Isa 62:4 Thou shall no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shall be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: for the LORD delights in thee, and thy land shall be married.

Isa 62:5   For [as] a young man marries a virgin, [so] shall thy sons marry thee: and [as] the bridegroom rejoices over the bride, [so] shall thy God rejoice over thee.

–

–

Daniel

The abomination of desolation cannot take place unless there is a sanctuary established in Israel. Since the Palestinians are not going to put up a Temple, this implies that the Jews have to be there for this to happen.

The abomination occurs during Jacob’s trouble, and precedes the Messiah’s intervention in their time of crisis.

The time of trouble occurs in present day unsaved Israel, which indicates it HAS to exist first, before trouble can come to it, and the Messiah can save it.

The abomination happens in the state of Israel, not America or Europe.

The antichrist described as taking over the land, as he violates the covenant. It is understood that the Antichrist precedes the Messiah:

Dan 11:28   Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart [shall be] against the holy covenant; and he shall do [exploits], and return to his own land.

Dan 11:29 ¶ At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter.

Dan 11:30   For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

The abomination

Dan 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily [sacrifice], and they shall place the abomination that makes desolate.

Dan 12:11 And from the time [that] the daily [sacrifice] shall be taken away, and the abomination that makes desolate set up, [there shall be] a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

–

–

New Testament

Matthew

Jesus explains that the Jews will be in the land during the tribulation, and that he will show up after wards, NOT before.

He did NOT say it is all Palestinian Muslim land, and that the tribulation happened somewhere else.

Mat 24:3 ¶ And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what [shall be] the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Mat 24:15 ¶ When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

Mat 24:16   Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

Mat 24:21   For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Mat 24:29 ¶ Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

Mat 24:30  And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Luke

Jesus tells the Jews in Jerusalem who rejected him, that they will not see him again until they bless his name.

This indicates Jesus is returning to Jerusalem, and that they are there before him, to see him return.

Luk 13:34 ¶ O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which kills the prophets, and stones them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen [doth gather] her brood under [her] wings, and ye would not!

Luk 13:35   Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until [the time] come when ye shall say, Blessed [is] he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

–

–

Conclusion

I hope I have provided enough scripture to show that Bible prophecy indicates that Israel must be in the land before the Messiah comes.

Those that oppose the state of Israel have no solid grounds.

1. There is a group of very confused, self hating Jews called NETUREI KARTA that insist the State of Israel is not legitimate.

They base their views, NOT on biblical prophecy, but on a legend about making a vow to God to remain in exile until the Messiah comes. It will be an obviously Arab state, since they are not there, and the Messiah has to clean out the place first, establish peace, and then it is safe to return home.

They have not read their own Bibles. They think the Messiah, not God, will re-gather the Jews to Israel.

The bible clearly says that this is the work of God’s spirit, not the Messiah, who comes to save Israel from destruction in a battle.

2. Israel’s enemies also hate Israel, for no valid reasons, and want it destroyed.

–

–

–

–

–

See also:

Zionism: Man’s idea or God’s plan?    Click here for more.

Anti-Zionism – Jewish self–betrayal      Click here for more.

Anti-Zionism – ancient Arab roots       Click here for more.

Anti-Zionism – Roman and Christian (Western) roots     Click here for more.