Noah and the Rapture
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Did Jesus give a hint as to the season of the rapture?Jesus said we would not know the day or hour, because the Hebrew calendar varies, depending on the moon, and the barley harvest.But once the season is here, can we get a clue as to the day?
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Shared (information found) by: Silvan Wolf
Original Blog:
Some Possibly Important News…
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Excerpt:
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Something I read this week in Genesis I have been meaning to follow up on, but have repeatedly forgotten. The Holy Spirit has been nudging me…repeatedly to get to it. Well I just did, and my jaw dropped.
We have been on the subject of the coming of the Son of man being just like…exactly like the days of Noah and Lot
I found it interesting as I was reading Genesis 7 that the Lord told us exactly WHEN (a month and day) Noah went into the ark. Why pray tell did the Lord tell us that? The Lord (I think) has nudged me on this multiple times now, so here it is:
Gen 7 And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth.
7 And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons’ wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood. 8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creeps upon the earth,
9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.
10 And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.
11 In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
12 And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.
The second month…the seventeenth day of the month….Gosh, that’s interesting, because when I cross reference that with my Hebrew lunar calendar I get this:
The month of Iyar , 29 days long, with a Gregorian calendar equivalent of what? April-May
Sometime in late April….early May is where the seventeenth day of the second month, the EXACT day that Noah entered the Ark falls. It just so happens that everything I am reading, hearing, seeing seems to indicate that we are approaching something BIG happening beginning the end of this month, all the way through the end of Fall 2009.
People are referring to this summer as the “summer of hell” and “summer of chaos” and it just so happens that Noah entered the ark on the exact day of 17 Iyar which falls in late April, early May?
Nope, I’m not predicting anything! But my eyes are wide open guys….Clues on top of clues on top of clues. In the last days mockers shall come. I don’t have to be warned multiple times to watch and be ready. What are the chances all these “coincidences” line up for this particular time period?
So there it is, I followed the gentle nudgings of the Holy Spirit and that’s what I see. Like I’ve said over and over again, it’s not like we have long to wait in order to find out what happens…..
We have been warned. We have been told to be watching and ready. If nothing happens over the coming weeks except more Americans lose their jobs and apply for food stamps, lose their homes etc by the hundreds of thousands, at least we will have been watching. Be ready….be READY
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Marianne’s note:
Jesus died at Passover, and was back on earth for 40 days after his resurrection…..he left about 10 days before Pentecost, and ascended into heaven…….this would also be about the 17th day of Iyar. The 17th of Iyar starts the Lag B”Omer, the countdown for Shavuot (Pentecost).
So apparently, Jesus ascended (“raptured”) into heaven about the same day Noah was brought (“raptured”) into the ark.
So maybe a “Spring” rapture could happen in this or a year soon to come?
True, that Jesus did not say the day or hour, so how could we say the day?
Because if it follows Passover, the day is not definite, because according to Torah, Passover is held once the Barley harvest is Aviv, or ready.If it is not ready, then there is a month delay.
Modern Jewish calendars are now preset, and do not follow this rule, which can only be followed in Israel, over the barley harvest that is there.For the sake of unity in the Diaspora, the barley observation is not followed, so that Jews around the world can plan for, and celebrate, the Passover at the same time.
However, Jesus would follow the Torah.Therefore, there is a 30 + 40 day extension of time that might be involved with any spring Passover date of any year.
For example, for the year 2009, the “rapture day,” if it is appropriate to call it that, would either be about May 11th, following the scheduled Pesach, or June 9th, following Pesach Sheni.
Like Silvan said, just “be ready.”In Noah’s time, the rain started 7 days after he went into the boat.
In some ways, I would welcome an early date.In other ways, my heart aches for those not saved yet, especially loved ones.
If we humble ourselves and pray, and work for the salvation of loved ones, and even strangers, God the Father will hear us, and may give us mercy and time, to bring in more for the harvest.
[…] moon, and the barley harvest. But once the season is here, can we get a clue as to the day? Click here for […]
Noah and the Rapture « Heaven Awaits said this on March 18, 2009 at 6:24 pm
Interesting blog, I’ll try and spread the word.
Noah’s and the end times is such an interesting subject. I study it often to see where we are in God’s time frame.
The Flood removed all the unbelievers of Noah’s day from the earth in judgment. And the believers in Noah’s day, namely, Noah and his family, were left on the ark.
During these last days all believers will be removed before the great tribulation occurs. The same way Noah and his family were removed and given safety.
We see before the flood Enoch the seventh from Adam taken into heaven. This is a picture of the coming of Christ where we will be taken up.
Going in reverse we see a mark placed upon Cain for murdering his brother Abel. In the early days of the tribulation we also see a mark placed upon men. Many others will be killed just as Abel was killed by Cain. This means men who receive Christ during the tribulation will be killed as Abel was slain for bringing an acceptable offering (living Sacrifice) to the Lord.
Next, Cain was banished and left to live east of Eden. During the tribulation the Kings of the east will rise and become strong Rev. 16:12.
Cain’s punishment was seven fold and during the tribulation we see seven years of punishment unleashed upon the Earth.
Going even further we see the serpent appearing in the beginning and he is seen again in the end times. The Lord tells the serpent:
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
In the end The woman’ seed Jesus, will return to the Earth to set up His kingdom in Jerusalem. At this time, the serpent will be crushed and defeated.
Then a 1000 year of peace as it was in the garden.
The bible declares the following:
Ecclesiastes 1:9
The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
1:9 There is – There is nothing in the world but a continued and tiresome repetition of the same things. And we see a repeat of all things leading up to the coming of the Lord.
God said his Spirit shall not always strive with man Gen 6:3. Violence was sweeping the land and God chose to destroy the earth due to wickedness and the attempted corruption of human seed by devils.
Comparison:
During Noah’s day Before Christ returns
Wicked imagination Gen. 6:5 Seducing spirits Tim 4:1
Violence on Earth Gen 6:11 Wars and rumors Matt 24:6
Excessive eating Matt 24:38 Excessive eating Matt 24
Drinking Matt 24:38 Drinking Matt 24
Marrying Matt 24:28 Marrying Matt 24
One other interesting fact is the comet Hale Bopp.
From August through late October 1997 in the early morning hours Hale-Bopp was seen in the constellation Argo (Noah’s Ark) from mid August to late December. Argo represents a place of refuge for God’s people in a time of great trouble on Earth. Such was the case during the Great Flood. This is particularly interesting since Hale-Bopp, as seen from Earth, comes from the constellation Pavo which represents Argos (Noah) the shipbuilder of Argo and was last seen in this part of the solar system “in the days of Noah”!
God has always used signs in the heavens to warn. “As it was in the days of Noah, so shall it be in the days of the coming of the Son of Man,” Luke 17:26.
Hi Rev Williams,
I do not quite understand the part about the constellation Argo in 1997. What did that mean then? Is it supposed to return there in the future?
Then you switched to the constellation Pavo. IS that where it is now? How does Pavo = Argo. Are they the same or different?
So in the days of Noah, where is the Hale bopp supposed to be?
And during the tribulation, where is the Hale bopp supposed to be?
blessings
marianne
Sorry for not being more to the point. Hope this helps.
Argo constellation represents a place of refuge for God’s people in a time of great trouble on Earth. Pavo represents Argos (Noah) the shipbuilder of Argos. You could say they are one in the same.
Hale bopp passed through these constellations. Since the last time the comet was seen with the eye was during the days of Noah, and it symbolizes the time we live in, the last days before the end. Coming out of a constellation (agro) that symbolized Noah being provied a place of safety.
Several monthss later it arrived at the constellation Sagittarius, the half-man, half-beast constellation (perhaps a picture of the coming Antichrist). God’s message is simple. I am providing a place of safety from the coming flooding of the enemy.
Hale-Bopp will be in the constellation Argo representing a ship, (the ark).
Hi Rev Williams
Still confused. Are you sure you are talking about Hale bopp?
The current estimate for the return of Hale bopp is circa 4380 CE
http://curious.astro.cornell.edu/question.php?number=733
Comet Hale-Bopp was photographed in the constellation Andromeda by George Shelton, photographer for The Bionetics Corp., at 8:14 p.m. on March 31, 1997
none of this makes sense to me, but I will put a reference for others to look at:
http://philologos.org/bpr/files/sky_signs/ss003.htm
VERY interesting!!
Very well said, Rev. Williams. While I too long for the salvation of unsaved loved ones, the desire to be in the Lord’s presence is greater. Let’s make sure we stay busy in the kingdom, the next person we witness to could be the last person God is waiting on! Maranatha
Hi Marianne.
I hope this clears things up. Jewish oral tradition states when a comet passes through the constellation Orin the world would be destroyed. On May 20, 1997 it entered Orin and existed June 16, 1997. This means it was in the constellation Orin during Shavuot, or Pentecost, on June 11.
In the celestial heavens, there is a constellation which depicts a sailing ship (Argo). Hale-Bopp passed through that area of the sky in mid-August to December 1997!
Hale-Bopp, as seen from earth, spent most of its time in the constellation Pavo. Pavo, previously known as Argos, appears to represent Noah, the builder of the ark of which Argo is a symbol.
A comparison of the paths of the comets reveals some intersting facts.
Hi Rev Williams
So why wasn’t the world destroyed in 1997?
If my memory still serves me right, the reason why YHWH destroyed the earth and all that dwelled therein (except eight humans and 2 of each of all species of the unclean animals and 5 of each of all species of the clean beasts) was because the descended ‘sons of god’ had mingled with the created race of God.
Now these ‘sons of god’ is said to have descended upon Mt. Hermon. To these days we still can find the ancient altars on this mountain which were dedicated to the sacrifices performed unto these ‘sons of god’.
Noteworthy also is the temple of freemasons found there too today.
The vastness of history is too lengthy for me to address in this short forum.
Suffice it to say as Jesus said ‘ As the days of Noah … ‘ So now we at least know for certainty that we are in these last days.
The seeds of the serpent are plenty. Even enough tares to choke to precious bread of the earth.
But to the servants of God the day of The Lord will not take us by surprise. The Hour however knows no one.
Those seeds of the serpent have infiltrated the message of the gospels and of course twisted the pure word of God so much so that discernment is not accessible to the simple minded who trust in the teaching of institutions. And neither is the Truth taught without them mingling it. And for sure those are not shepherds but wolves. And for certain they have no fear of God…. Yet!!
They do not teach to OBEY the loving commandments of God. And so the earth is full of violence.
Maybe when The King Appears we who love and obey Him, ‘we will be like Him’
His reward is with Him and we bear the recompense of their folly in earthen vessels…
for now… until then.
Rev. Williams said “During these last days all believers will be removed before the great tribulation occurs. The same way Noah and his family were removed and given safety.”
That’s a lot to assume when the scripture does not bear that out. I think that we would be better served to prepare our flocks to endure the “tribulation” rather than look forward to an escape from it.
Hi Jerald,
I think the conflict seems to be over definitions. It has been tradition to state that all events in the book of Revelation come under one term: Tribulation.
Jesus said to be prepared to endure the Tribulation, and then is also quoted as saying that we are not appointed to wrath.
I think revelation is divided into 2 parts:
trouble – 7 seals
wrath – the rest of it
Somewhere in this is 7 years. Jacob’s trouble is 3 1/2 years.
I think we are around for the trouble, but not the wrath, which is only for the wicked. Rev Williams may be following the definition that all events (trouble + wrath) in Revelation = “tribulation.”
I’m sorry,but this Hale Bopp comet thing as presented by the Rev Williams, seems to be way off course!
When we start embelishing Scripture with erronous material, all we end up with his confusion and a path that leads away from the main message.
There are enough myths out there already, without adding to them!
Let’s take the story of the Great Flood on face value.
It can stand on it’s own two feet!
Hi Glenn,
There is one passage about a great star that falls, an turns the water bitter. What do you think it might be?
Do you really think Noah’s flood was a myth? What do you think happened instead?
I found this photo of the “ark.” There have been other pictures published as well. It is thought that the boat landed on top of Mt Ararat, and then split during some land movements. There have also been some eye witness testimonies of people who have seen and climbed up on the ark.
http://www.stevequayle.com/Giants/Ancient.Civ_Technol/040426.Noahs.Ark.html
Approximately 36 years ago, i remember well seeing the Ark wedged between 2 mountains…and remember them saying it was in Turkey!
Now, 36 years later, it is found under ground, ice…?? but is visible from the air..
Marianne,
Thanks for your insight. I’m well aware of that stream of thinking but according to Rev. Williams’ context, I do believe that he’s talking about a pre-trib rapture as many in the modern church teach. I’m also aware that the church will not endure the wrath of God that will come at the end of the tribulation. That is a promise that I’m holding on to.
I appreciate your blog and what you’ve had to say but I just couldn’t let this issue pass.
I pray that neither you or Rev. Williams are offended by my remarks.
Even though salvation is a free gift, there is a cost associated with being a disciple of Jesus. Some in this world are even now paying that price with their lives. But the American church has not had to endure that kind of “tribulation” if you will. We have had it pretty easy. And the idea that the church of Jesus Christ will not have to endure the horror of the tribulation of the world by the enemy is not what I see in the Word and it’s not what the church understood until just the last 200 years.
Your post on the flood is excellent and I’m looking forward to reading more of what is here.
Blessings…
As of March 2010, hundreds have been beheaded in Nigeria-they were attacked in the middle of the night..alledgedly due to them being christians!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20100307/wl_africa_afp/nigeriaunrest
I agree with Jerald. The truth is that the pre-trib rapture theory is a fraudulent representation of the biblical doctrine on the first resurrection and it’s seven different and distinct orders, and is built around the second “firstfruit order” known as the “24 Elders”. The scriptures totally refute a single “taking away”, as per any of the so-called “Rapture theoruies, whether pre/post, or mid-trib.
2.Thess.2:1-3, makes it clear that there must “First” come a falling away, and the “Man of sin must be revealed” before the “coming of the Lord, and OUR GATHERING UNTO Him ”
1.Thess.5:1-4 clearly indicates that the “Brethren” are on Earth, right up until “That Day”, (speaking of the Battle of armageddon, or “the Day of the Lord” )
The problem here, is as Marianne has suggested, a conflict over definition. The pre-tribbers equate the seven year tribulation, as being the “Wrath of God”. This is a grave error, that lays the “false foundation” and premise for all their other errors.
Here are a couple of facts to help correct that.
Jesus said in Mt.24, after speaking about the “Abomination that maketh desolate”, (and refering to Daniel) that “Then there shall be GREAT tribulation as never was before” When ?? AFTER the Abomination of desolation has been placed in the Holy Place.
Daniel 9:27 tells us that this happens in the “MIDDLE of the week” ! This fact alone, should “wake up” any serious student of the Bible to the fact that, if they are going to equate the tribulation with the “wrath of God” (which is silly in the first place, as the “Wrath of God” is explicitly proclaimed in both the Old and New Testament, as the “Battle Of Armageddon”) Then such Wrath does not begin until the middle of the Tribulation, and at the exact time of the opening of the “Fifth Seal”
Which brings me to the main premise of the Rapture guru’s, and that is that they erroneously believe the opening of the “First Seal” is the beginning of the Wrath of God. Wrong ! Wrong ! Wrong !
Here is the proof ! If the “first seal” is the “beginning of the “Wrath of God”, then we must conclude that the opening of EVERY SUBSEQUENT Seal, must be a continuation of the “Wrath Of God”. So what do we do with the “Fifth Seal” ? As the result of it’s being “opened”, culminates in the “martyrdom” of God’s Saints, of which the scriptures declare in 1.Thess.5:9, That “We are NOT APOINTED UNTO WRATH ” This all proves that the Tribulation period itself, is not the Wrath of God, but that God’s wrath (i.e. the Trumpets and the Vials culminating in the battle of Armageddon) happens at the end of this period.
This fact of 1.Thess.5:9 cannot be negated, and proves the “rapture guru’s” to be totaly in error.
Lastly, Acts 3:20-21, declares that Christ “MUST REMAIN in HEAVEN until the RESTITUTION of ALL things”, and such restitution does not begin until the BATTLE of Armageddon.
The above speculation about the time-line of the “secret” firstfruit resurrection, is also faulty, as it has to happen on one of two “feast days” of the “Feast of Trumpets”, (which is in the Fall) as is clear from 1.Cor.15:50-53, and Rev.4:1-6.
All this is discussed in my book, ‘None Dare Call It Deception”.
Please point the cursor on my name in the box below, and click to get my website.
Morgan Sorensen
Instead of trying to figure out when Jesus is coming back,why not just be ready and live like every day may be your last,Besides the Bible tells us plainly that He is coming back and No one will know the day and time,and I don’t understand if you believe that ,why do so many try to figure out when and what time,just be PREPARED for it any day… that is like some are just saying OH he is coming next year so this year I can do some fun stuff and get better next year.. be faithfull all the time not just some of it…..
HI Deb
The primary purpose of this site is to present how interesting the Bible is. Sometimes we can learn much from discussion over a single point.
So, my goal is not necessarily to prove a specific issue, but to stimulate people to go to their bibles for scriptures, if they want to debate something. Many people do not even bother to open their bibles, and leave all the thinking to their pastors.
Here, I want them to think for themselves, because the Word of God and knowledge of it, is a weapon against our enemy, who is Satan. I want people to wake up to the scritpures, and use them more effectively.
I see this all the time, but now I ask just ONE question; will someone be so kind as to point to me WHERE O WHERE IN THE BOOK OF REVELATION that John speaks of SEVEN
years???? Thank you.
Do you remember the song ‘California dreaming’? Do you remember the one sentence ‘I felt down on my knees’ ? The lyrics of the song goes on to say ‘and I pretend to pray.’ Well we certainly can change that to ‘I began to pray’.
Well anyway the reason I ask you this is because The Lord even in the middle of the night wakes me up with just this one sentence ‘I felt down on my knees.’
Abigail
Hi Abigail
THere is no 7 years in the Book of Revelation. Only 3 1/2 period of time is mentioned, although there are other small time periods like 5 months mentioned during the wrath.
The 7 years comes from Daniel’s last week of the 70 weeks.
People extrapolate that to include the entire book of Revelation, with all the events that occur.
Gonna put my 2 cents worth in. With all due respect, Rev. Williams, I don’t think Noah on the Ark is a picture of the rapture. But there WAS a picture of the rapture there. It needs to be known that Enoch was alive while Noah lived. And Enoch was taken off the earth just before the Flood. Noah had to endure that judgment on earth, (safe in the Ark.) So Enoch was the example of a catching up of saints to miss wrath. Noah was the example of keeping a people safe DURING wrath.
Look, each end of a Bible age has a harvest. The Flood was the end of an age and had harvests. Likewise, soon the 70th week of Daniel is going to start. That means an age will have passed, and a new age is begun. When that former age passed, Bible history shows us there would have been a harvest. Again, some will be taken up, and others will have to endure the wrath, some safe in Petra. This, in agreement with Rev. Williams’ comments from Ecles. of history repeating itself.
There has for too long been confusion of including the destinies of Christians and Israelis as the same. Much of where the Scriptures are speaking of the Bride, are not meant for the Israelis, and vice-versa. The two have DIFFERENT DESTINIES! (Yes, some Israelis will have converted before the end of that age and will be part of the Bride.)
The Bride will be called up to the Heavenlies with Jesus to the wedding banquet, and will have Heavenly bodies. The remaining Israelis will live on in earthly bodies thru the Tribulation and the millenium. The Israelis are NOT the Bride, but will remain the earthly chosen ones.
And I do not believe I am giving false hope to a pre-trib rapture, that many will falter. I believe we need to be encouraged with the truth, wherever it stands by evidence.DavWms
PS: I might say, if you do not see that the Jews and Christians have different destinies, you will not be able to correctly divide the Word. If you can see they do, then if you go back and read everything pertaining to the end of days, you will likely have many eureka moments as you see clarity in the meaning of many verses. DavWms
David,
The Israel of God, the Holy Israel of God belongs to God. The seed of promise, the seed of righteousness belongs to God. There is neither jew or gentile with God. To whom did God say you are my wife?
Anyways on another subject here is a video for you to consider.
http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docId=-750107269338052182&hl=en
Yes, Abigail, I am aware of those Scriptures. It is true that IN CHRIST, there is no Jew or gentile. But as I said, Jews and the Bride of Christ have different destinies in the overall picture, don’t they? Generally, the Jews have chosen not to be the Bride.
I look at it all like there is a perenthisis in God’s dealing with His Jews. In that perenthesis, He is forming the Bride, His body. When that is complete, a new era will begin, the 70th week of Daniel, where God specifically deals again with the Jews. DavWms
I think Deb hit the nail right on the head with her comment. I understand what David is trying to say. There are parts of Revelation that are asynchronous and parts that occur outside of time. I do believe that Revelation allows for a 7 year period of trouble. Not going to get into terms here. Could be more, could be less but at least 3 1/2 years the Bible singles out as the worst the world has ever or will ever see. I believe like some others that chapture 4 is a picture of the rapture. I’ve always had some thoughts on other portions of the book that relate to Davids comments. In chapter 7 of Revelation, we see the 144,000 Jewish evangelists on the earth. Later in that same chapter we see the Bride of Christ, saved from all nations. In chapter 14 we see the 144,000 in heaven, singing a song before the throne. I think it is without dispute that they experienced a rapture specific to them. During their time on earth the 144,000 Jews, the 2 witnesses and the Gospel angel are responsible for multitudes being won to Christ. Likely more people than are in the Bride. When the man of sin stands in the temple and declares himself God, most Jews will reject him, flee to Petra, etc. This will signal the aforementione 3.5 year great tribulation/wrath. My thought is this, since the Bride is already in heaven and marriage supper of the Lamb has already occured, what becomes of the multitudes saved during the tribulation or the wrath, as well as the Jews who come to Christ during this time as well as those saved during the millenium? (By the way, though our destinies may be different, there is still only one WAY and that is through Christ. The Jews must be saved to be right with God). My thought is this, you have two groups of people when this is all said and done: Those who are in the Bride of Christ in their glorified bodies and those saved during the tribulation/wrath and the Jews. Both immortal, both still human, one glorified, one not. The Bible speaks of people continuing to build houses and such. We, the Church/Bride, will already have our dwelling place in New Jerusalem. So these must be ontologically different. I could be way off. We’ll have to wait and see. But we can surmise from Scripture that the Bride is only the Church; the church began on the day of Pentecost and will end with the rapture. So anyone on either side of the divide (Noah, Abraham, David etc before and tribulation/wrath Saints and the nation of Israel after) constitutes another group. If there is a delineation for the Bride, it stands to reason that she alone will be glorified. The rest will be immortal, sinless humans, but otherwise no different than those who live on earth now.
Hi Amardo,
DO you think the Bride represents the entire church, or a remnant within the church? If he came for the entire church, it would first have to “be without spot or wrinkle.” Possibly, if the church went through the tribulation, it would come out purified.
Isn’t it by faith that you are saved? Let us clear some misunderstanding here. Jesus is in charge of the atonement. The 144,000 sealed with the seal of the living God are the servants ‘the prophets’ of God, and those are their number. The numberless multitude are the saints. And those are not numbered.
The true Israel of God are those who like Abraham have left all (land, wives, husbands, children etc.) because they believe and they will have Eternal Life.
The tribe of Dan and Euphraim are excluded because of their idolatries.
You must be born again from God and not from women and those who are truly born again are no longer jew, gentile, chinese etc. because they have forsaken the world believing of a better place.
The bride of Christ are those baptized in water, in fire, in the death of Jesus, in the Holy Spirit, and in the resurrection.
Confusion seems to run rampant. O lord I pray anchor your assembly!
Abigail, I really can’t answer your questions without knowing where you are coming from. Meaning, do you think the Jews have been done away with forever for refusing the Savior, and that God will only deal with born-again Christians from that time on? This is sometimes called, the “replacement theory.”
I did show that I agree that IN CHRIST, there is no Jew or gentile. But outside of Christ, the people remain Jews and gentiles from my point of view. I also note that those living in the millenium will be in human only bodies, tho with good health and long lives. It is noted there that if a person dies at a hundred (?)years in that era, he will be considered to have died as a baby. So that eliminates immortal bodies for them, at least until after the millenium. And yes, the Bride will come down to dwell on or in new Jerusalem during the millenium.
BTW, your catching the “numbered and unnumerable is good,” thanx. DavWms
Abigail, Gal. 3:27-29 explains it is the ones IN CHRIST who are neither male or female, Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, all are one in Christ, and those are Abraham’s offspring. But like Jesus told the religious leaders, they are not Abraham’s offspring, but sons of the devil. DavWms
go and tell the king that the sky is falling in
but it’s not.
seems like you are all pretty desperate for life to be over- lest you give in to reality and realise that what will follow is unkown and uncertain.
z
ok…the sky is not falling
Iran has not threatened the USA or ISrael
Russia is not testing nuclear weapons, and has not aligned with Venezuela and Cuba for a possible attack on the USA.
Israel is happy and has never been attacked by the terrorists in Gaza.
Osama bin laden’s group has given up, and wants peace.
the world is not suffering from economic collapse.
compared to when shell shock victims in england relapsed into madness on hearing the artillery hitting the trenches in france.
or when hitler was rampaging accross europe. or the great depression when people starved. or the hight of the cold war when nuclear war between world powers looked like it might really happen- as opposed to now when it is relatively unlikely.
we’re doing alright.
us humans will die off sometime, as all species eventually do.
p.s. the god of the bible obviously doesn’t exist in reality. this is not even a point worth arguing. maybe something created us, it certainly didn’t write us a book.
God bless you, zarathustra
may you find the truth and give up on this nonsense- marianne
Z
we all have different things that give us joy. Mine is my faith in Jesus. Yours is philosophy.
yours is hoping that life will end.
mine is enjoying it while it lasts.
z
but what do you think will happen when you die? will you just rot away, and that is it? Suppose you are wrong? Just suppose…? You want me to consider that I am wrong. So what if it is not me, but you?
If I am wrong, then I lose nothing by believing this. If you are wrong, what will happen to you?
my body will rot, if some kind of spiritual element remains (which seems incredibly unlikely but hey- why not) then i will experience whatever happens after death.
the mystery of death has nothing to do with “heaven” and “hell”, these are human constructions limited by the human imagination.
hellfire and damnation only came into fashion in the middle ages, most of the imagery is taken from dante’s inferno and not from the bible. the emphasis on hell was (and is) used to scare people into submitting to religion.
z
Hell is mentioned 54 times in the bible, which pre-dates the middle ages.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=hell&t=KJV
Just a note,
First of all, the Jews never believed in Hell and it doesn’t appear in the Torah. The word they use is Sheol which is just a grave. The early Christians who inherited the concept of Hell from the Romans (as well as SUNday worship etc.), replaced the word grave with Hell in about half the time in the OT and used it profusely in the NT even though the Jewish writers/apostles never used the term since it was not in their belief system.
It is one of the paganistic elements in the whore of Babylon church that will be cleansed when Christ returns. Do you really believe Jesus will go to the temple on Sunday when he returns? If you do you will be in big trouble in the tribulation. And don’t think you will get a free ride around it by a rapture. God tests his people thru tribulation not by giving them a free pass. The old testament is full of tribulations (Job, Jacob etc,) and we will be there thru the final one – but believers will be protected until the real rapture – as Jesus returns to fight the battle of Armageddon. Then we will be changed and return to earth after the battle is over. (10 days?)
If I’m right, we will all have to reject the mark of the beast, if we can figure out what it truly is. This will be the sign (mark) of our true faith as believers in Jesus and keepers of his commandments.
So don’t expect a free pass. You must get ready for it. I pray that you will be.
of course, but the imagery associated with it in the modern christian mind is pure dante
Z
There is no such thing as ‘the mystery of death’. That is a false concept as all concepts are false.
And concepts are false because they are a fabrication of an intellect grasping at nothing.
Whether ancient or modern views of concepts it matters not. Time does not make a thing which is false better, Fallacy is fallacy.
But life does hold a mystery!! Which without the knowledge of God is kept hidden.
Jesus sums it this way,: I came that you might have life and Life more abundantly”, implying that one is dead without Him. Not later, but before Him.
Or again Jesus says ‘ Let the dead bury their dead and come and follow me.’
Now you see that the mystery is in ‘life’ not in death.
Without Him there is no life!
You may be disillusioned in thinking that you are living but in reality you are dead.
Now that is not a concept but the ‘Truth’
I pray to meant all In heaven I pray for none to be left.
I know I might be signing my death sentence here and bring people at me big time.
We need to pray for each other so we all may have a closer walk with thee.
We aren’t only to pray for are brothers and sisters but also for the nonbelievers as well.
We all need Christ we all fall short of his glare.
As a person we can due little, through Christ we can move a mountain.
Are words are weak his is strong
Marianne;
It must be video day. A video for this subject:
Matthew 24:37-39
Dutch Creationist: Johan Hubers, Schagen Netherlands
I hope these videos are blessing you. I got blessed off of them.
Kittii
Hi Kitti
great video…!
Hi Marianne,
I couldn’t help but notice that someone mentioned that there was no Seven Year End-Time mentioned in Revelation, whereas Daniel did.
I beg to differ on that notion.
Rev.11:2 …and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty [and] two months.
3. And I will give [power] unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
I don’t know about the Americans, but we have been taught in arithmetic, …that AND means ADD.
So if we have 42 Months AND 1,260 Days, that gives us a total of SEVEN Years, don’t you agree?
I thought I would like to add some very interesting observation that was brought to my attention.
The Date of the Unification of Jerusalem, in the LOCAL time was June the 7th, 1967. The Americans (Home to the UN), call it as 6/7/67. [We in Australia have DD/MM/YYYY.]
The DATE of 6/7/67 has actually got Prophetic significance, if you believe in Creation Week. Man was made on the 6th day, and GOD “Rested” from His Creating on the 7th day.
Before we GO to our Promised Land [Heaven], just like the Israelites, had to Circumnavigate Jericho ONCE a DAY for the 6-days, but on GOD’S Day, they Circumnavigated 7x on that 7th Day.
Now I find this the interesting bit; As I find that we were told to MEASURE the TEMPLE (47 years)[Rev.11:1,2], AFTER the time of the fulfillment of GENTILE time [Luke 21:24], 1967 till 2014, being the very END, we see the 9/11 EVENT which is recorded in Revelation Chapter 18, is 13 years BEFORE the END.
NOT Only is it Significant, …WHEN 9/11 Event occurred, it was 9/12/2001. …Now you may be wondering, what is all the fuss about? As you know, the Hebrew NEW YEAR [Trumpets] date on the Gregorian Calendar is on a different day each year, but EXACTLY Six years to the Day, of the 6th anniversary of 9/11, we have NEW Year on the Hebrew Calendar, to START the COUNTDOWN of the LAST 7 years!
Thus we have 9/11 + 6/7 [13yrs], not only that, the American “Great Seal” has an eagle with 13 Arrows, 13 Olive Branches, 13etc. Signifying the 13 States at the time. The UN is depicted in Revelation 13 when it begins its rule!
Hi again Marianne,
I made a mistake with the time the 9/11 incident occurred and the Jerusalem time. After checking the internet time zone calculator, it was not quite sunset at Jerusalem [5:28pm] …as it was 10:28am. New York local time when the Twin Towers were demolished, according to the report posted on the Internet, so the day had not changed to the 12th of September.
|_________________40yrs______________________|_3.5y_|_3.5y|End
|___Measure_Altar_to_end_of_Temple_worship___|[30AD-70AD]
|1967__________________________2001________2007___2011__2014
9/11___13years till End____|
|__Measure_Temple_in Building_(46y)_-47th year in service_|
…John 2:20 – for Temple building duration
…Rev.11:1,2 for TEMPLE measurement from Time given to Gentiles
…Luke 21:24 “Gentile Times” fulfillment [Jerusalem not trodden by Gentiles.]
I am Sorry, but the submitted time lines are not the same once I submit them!
The second line should end at the beginning of the first lot of 3.5y, the Third line is correct, but the Fourth line should START under the year 2001, and finish at the year 2014.
The fifth line starts correctly, but the END should terminate at the year 2014.
Olaf,
the text wraps around. I will send you something, and you tell me if this is what you want…..also, what does 30-40 AD have to do with now?
Thank you Marianne,
to answer the question with regards to 30-40 AD, if you look closely, I wrote [30-70AD], which is a period of 40 years.
If you are a little perplexed with the fact that I quoted a time period from the Crucifixion and the Destruction of the TEMPLE in 70AD, then it will require a better explanation on my part, as I admit that I often assume that the reader knows of the other factors in this mysterious puzzle.
Jesus stated: Matt.24:2. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
…He was referring to the TEMPLE.
The Question was asked Matt.24:3. And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what [shall be] the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
…(1) When will these things BE. [END of the Temple]
(2) Sign of Jesus’ Coming & END of the World.
On this occasion, it was ONLY Luke who answered the (2) SIGN.
Luke 21:24. And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
…SIGN = Jerusalem Trodden down by Gentiles UNTIL the Fulfillment of GENTILE Time.
As we know from HISTORY, the (1)”WHEN will these things BE” question is answered, but the (2) “Sign of Jesus’ Coming & END of the World.” is STILL unanswered!
We must look a little further, and find the hidden clue that unlocks it. Seeing that it was a DOUBLE – Barreled question, we can assume that it has been answered if we look at a COMMON denominator. The following is that Common to BOTH.
Luke 21:32. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
…The words “THIS GENERATION” who EXPERIENCE all the happenings, will “NOT pass away till ALL be fulfilled.”
As you can appreciate, those who experienced the period from the pronouncement of that double barreled prophecy [just previous to Jesus’ crucifixion] till the time that the Temple was destroyed, have NOT lived long enough to see the FULFILLMENT of ALL [End of the World].
Seeing that was the case, we MUST assume that the TEMPLE destruction, is NOT synonymous with the END of TIME!
We therefore have to place these TWO parts of the Prophecy in TWO distinct TIME SLOTS.
Today, the Prophecy of the TEMPLE Destruction is NO LONGER prophecy, but HISTORY!
It is in Luke 21:24, as I quoted earlier, that AFTER the Fulfillment of GENTILE TIMES, that the LAST “Generation will NOT PASS till ALL be fulfilled”. [e.g. (2)-(Sign & End of the World)]
If we know from the “PAST” that it took 40 years for the Generation NOT to pass away, then, the PERIOD after the SIGN till the END of the World would HAVE to be ABOUT the same period length of TIME.
John was told in Rev.11:1. And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles:
…Measure (1) Temple. (2) Altar. (3) [Period] of Temple Worship.
(1) Temple took 46 years in Building – in use on 47th year.
(2) Altar = Jesus Crucifixion [Passover Lamb] on Altar. [AD 30]
(3) Temple was WORSHIPED in Till it was DESTROYED. [AD 70]
John 2:20. Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
…As you well know, John was the one who penned Revelation.
From the above explanation, I hope it has cleared up the question why the TWO HALVES of the Prophecy that predicted TWO distinctly DIFFERENT events, has TIME PERIODS in COMMON.
I shall try again to give the time lines.
|1967_________________________________2007___2011___2014
|___________________40y_________________|_3.5y_|_3.5y_|
(2)Measure those worshiping
|__________Altar to Destruction_________|
(1)
|__________Temple Measurement_47y_____________________|
……………………….2001__6y__2007_____7y_____|
6/7/67……………………|___6____________7______|
Jericho – 6x on each (man’s) week day + 7x on God’s Day.
hi Olaf,
This would somewhat parallel what Silvan said, above in the post.
Noah was 6-00 years old when the flood waters started
after 7 days the flood was all over the earth
rain was for 40 days.
But since 2001 happened in America, not Israel, I do not see why 2001 would start the 7 years, although it was a dramatic event. It is already 2009, and nothing significant has occurred yet.
Also, like I said above, Jesus would follow the Torah. Therefore, there is a 30 + 40 day extension of time that might be involved with any spring Passover date of any year. Passover, and the following Shavuot has to pass before the 3 1/2 month gap before the fall feasts.
This would mean up to 70 years before a tribulation, if people are not ready.
Spring of Israel (1948) + 70 = 2018 – 7 = 2011 latest start time
Summer of Israel (1967) + 70 = 2037 – 7 = 2030 latest start time
I have looked for what ‘Silvan ‘ has said in the above post and …
I can’t find it.
hi abigail
Silvan is the author of this post. 🙂
Silly?
I did not see that.
But I will tell you what I do see.
When the Lord says ‘Watch and pray’ …
He is not referring to the blind eyes of the body.
There is ‘another sight’ that must be given, by God,
to man…
‘because they say they can see… they do not know that they are blind.’
Hear, ye deaf; and look, ye blind, that ye may see.
Mat 6:22
The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
Same is true with the ear.
And that is why the scriptures says
Let him who has AN ear … hear.
Hi again Marianne,
I think we are following on two different paths in this discussion.
The Measurement John was to make, was from Jesus’ “Sign” of 6/7/67 (Jerusalem united), with a MAXIMUM period being LESS than a Generation, …which is the TEMPLE Measurement of 47 YEARS. [1967 + 47 = 2014]…”Measure the Temple” Rev.11:1
You say that the TWIN TOWERS were in the USA! You are EXACTLY right! We are DEALING with this Earth, not the MOON or one of the other planets. The Resurrection will occur not ONLY in Israel, but EVERYWHERE or ANYWHERE on Earth.
What is being missed in this fact about the 9/11 event, is that it HAPPENED inside the END TIMES last Generation! 1967-2014
It is also dealt with in Revelation …in Chapter 18.
Everything, apart from the time of 1,000 years following the FIRST resurrection and beyond, is dealt with in Revelation chapter 4 onwards, and is within this period of 47 years.
Now this 47 years is broken up into smaller periods, as if Jesus was ZOOMING in on that 47 years, by telling us to see the 47 years as 40 years, just like the period in which the Temple was CONTINUING to be worshiped in by those who refuse to recognize that it was made REDUNDANT, for the TEMPLE was just an EXAMPLE of Jesus.
After that 40 years, there is 3.5 years PLUS 3.5 years. [= 47]
These Jews were just like those who now believe in a Temple in HEAVEN, today. That is disregarding Jesus’ Sacrifice for us!
Rev.21:22. And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
Until we realize this fact, we have NOT grasped the whole meaning of the PLAN of Salvation.
The Israelites who CONTINUED with the OLD Covenant after the NEW Covenant superseded it, did so, because they did not accept the Divinity of Jesus! We as Christians are no different if we believe in a continuation of the OLD Covenant rituals being played out in the Heavens.
What I must point out here, before you jump to conclusions on my statements; These CEREMONIAL events are not to continue, where it involves the slaughter of animals for the payment of our sins, but the TIMING of all these Ceremonies have a job to fulfill in pointing to a day in the very near future, with such as the LATTER “Rain”, as mentioned in Joel 2:23. Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first [month].
28. And it shall come to pass afterward, [that] I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
29. And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.
What I am saying that the Morning and evening sacrifices are done away with, and Passover has been REPLACED with the YEARLY foot washing and taking of the Bread and Wine in REMEMBRANCE of Calvary.
Getting back to this LAST 47 years, the FIRSTFRUITS will have to wait only for 1,335 days INTO the LAST Seven Jewish Calendar years [from 12th Sept. 2007] to be “Delivered” or redeemed. Seeing the day of deliverance is 9th of May 2011, it so happens to coincide with ISRAEL Independence day! The FIRSTFRUITS are the 144,000 and as if Jesus could foresee the division of the Bible into Chapters and verses some 300 odd years ago, the Dan.12:12 is hinting on this number – (12×12=144)
12. Blessed [is] he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.
This Collective group is the “WOMAN” that City “TRODDEN DOWN” for the first 42 months [Rev.11:2]2. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the HOLY CITY shall they tread under foot forty [and] two months.
She also will live in heaven during the Tribulation, for the “Beast” has seen her go Rev.13:6. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and THEM THAT DWELL IN HEAVEN.
If the “Beast” was blaspheming the ANGELS, it would have stated so.
Rev.126. And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place PREPARED OF GOD, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days.
Here we have an expression that JOHN has used before in his EPISTLE. John 14:2. In my Father’s house are many mansions: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also.
4. And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
Notice this LAST verse is verse 4 [John 14:4] hint 14:4 -(144)]
I had better stop, before I get “Carried away” on this subject.
Hi Olaf
What I meant was this: You have 2007 as the beginning of the tribulation. It is now 2009, so the tribulation should be almost over now. Nothing significant has happened yet. Therefore, 2007 was not the start of the tribulation, unless this is an uneventful, boring tribulation.
Marianne,
I did not use the word TRIBULATION in connection with the START of the 7 Years. It is the FIRST 3.5 years that the “Holy City”, or New Jerusalem are downtrodden. As I pointed out, the Holy City is the BRIDE, This “Woman” / Firstfruits / Chosen Ones [as opposed the Numberless Remnant of her SEED who go through Tribulation].
Please take note that the TRIBULATION …ENDS at the Resurrection, but only lasts for ~ 3.25 years. The TRIBULATION Time PERIOD is also covered by Daniel, just like the START of the 7 year period in which there are 1,335 days of waiting for that BRIDE / 5 – Wise Virgins / 144,000 / Elect / Chosen ones.
The TRIBULATION has been pointed out to you previously, which goes for a Period of 2,300 Evenings and Mornings, and as was pointed out, this length of time spans 1,150 days, so is roughly 3.25 years.
Dan.8:12. And an host was given [him] against the daily [sacrifice] by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practiced, and prospered.
13. Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain [saint] which spake, How long [shall be] the vision [concerning] the daily [sacrifice], and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?
14. And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.
…Sanctuary = SAINT and Cleansed = Justified – Check with the Concordance. There is NO Sanctuary to be CLEANSED in the END.
…Here we see the “HOST” was given him [the “Beast”] against the DAILY [TIME …Something that continues] (Sacrifice – not in original) Jesus is the one who says that TIME is finished!
Rev.10:7. But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.
Just like the last words on the Cross, He says “It is Finished” and Jesus Dies, just like at the end of the World, the UNREPENTANT sinners will die the first death.
So as the END of TRIBULATION terminates at the END of the World, we must count BACK 1,150 days to its beginning. That will be the time when the “Mark” is issued by the “Beast”.
|_1,335 days Waiting for Jesus_|__|_Tribulation till the End_|
The Holy City Down Trodden __________Host Down Trodden/killed
1,335 days + 1,150 days = 2,485 days.
…2 lots of 1,260 days = 2,520 days.
We therefore see a gap of 35 days in which the “FOOLISH” Virgins realize that they did not have enough oil in their “lamps”, and miss the “Wedding Breakfast”. At the END, Jesus will again return and collect the Resurrected and those who are still alive after the Tribulation. This is described in Luke 12:35. Let your loins be girded about, and [your] lights burning;
36. And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.
…It is NOW that we need to find out as much as we can, so we can have the “Good Oil” [Information] on the returns of Christ, so we can share with those who are eager to know the facts and in turn share it with others, just like the parable of the TALENTS. We can choose to say it is too difficult – like the person who had just one TALENT given to him for safe-keeping, and do nothing about it, but we miss out on heaven in so doing.
Matt.25:30. And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
31. When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
It is only those who EAGERLY want to be with the LORD, who will be granted their wish and miss out on Tribulation and death.
Luke 14:16. Then said he unto him, A certain man made a great supper, and bade many:
17. And sent his servant at supper time to say to them that were bidden, Come; for all things are now ready.
18. And they all with one [consent] began to make excuse. The first said unto him, I have bought a piece of ground, and I must needs go and see it: I pray thee have me excused.
19. And another said, I have bought five yoke of oxen, and I go to prove them: I pray thee have me excused.
20. And another said, I have married a wife, and therefore I cannot come.
21. So that servant came, and showed his lord these things. Then the master of the house being angry said to his servant, Go out quickly into the streets and lanes of the city, and bring in hither the poor, and the maimed, and the halt, and the blind.
22. And the servant said, Lord, it is done as thou hast commanded, and yet there is room.
23. And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel [them] to come in, that my house may be filled.
24. For I say unto you, That none of those men which were bidden shall taste of my supper.
…As we see in this parable, it was those “Professing” Christians who were more interested in the attractions of the “World” to just spend a few hours of their time to see what the Bible really says, and realize that the WHOLE agenda is mapped out for us to KNOW how CLOSE we are to our deliverance!
Olaf,
I think you are spending way too much time with too many numbers. Many people thought 2007 would be significant because it was 40 years or an assumed “generation” from the time of the unification of Israel and Jerusalem.
Didn’t happen. Its too soon. The world need another 20 years or so to get to the point to where the prophesies can be fulfilled. You can’t rush it. There is one more pope before the tribulation and Benedict is still going strong. The Christian churches must come together into a unified church under the pope. The war of Gog must happen. More natural disasters must occur. Disease must run rampant.
Populations and hunger must increase.
Oil must start to run out.
The seven seals must be opened etc.
Were almost there but not quite.
You want a date? How about 2000 years from the time Christ left? Sometime around 2033. The 7 years should start on the feast of trumpets in 2026 and end the same day in 2033 when Christ returns on his birthday.
Not mathematical but logical. And simple.
That’s my guess and I’m sticking to it.
Great Logic JG! God DOES like big round numbers.
There still remains debate over the 33AD. Some say 33AD, others 31AD, others 30AD, and still others 29AD.
Based on the assumption of Jesus being 30yo at the onset of his public ministry, coupled with the star research assumptions of 3 to 4BC being Jesus’ birth…
—-> These favor something closer to 30AD, thus adding 2000yrs would be a 7yr Tribulation between 2023AD to 2030AD.
===================================================
Now there is a delimma concerning a separate, but mildly related issue to the above mentioned 2000yrs. Arch Bishop Usher has the best reputation of historical biblical chronology experts and he concluded that Creation occurred in 4004BC. If one adds 6000yrs(6days), then we find ourselves in approximately the year 1996AD. So here we are now in 2012, 16yrs into the great 1000yr millineal reign of Jesus on Earth, yet we cannot be because wars still continue… So the question regarding the ‘day is as a 1000yrs’ application comes under the microscope. I believe part of the answer is found in Satan being let out of prison for a short duration after the end of the 1000 years of peace. That extra addendum implies a slightly larger time measuring dynamic than exactly 7000 years. Personally, I believe this ‘big picture timeline’ to be exactly 7056 years (84squared, i.e. 84x84yrs), for multiple reasons.
The 70th week started on Sept 29, 2008 feast of trumpets when the dow dropped 777 points. Jesus already fulfilled the first 3 1/2 years and antichrist gets the last 3 1/2. The 1290 days of Daneil 12 takes you to the “baptism” of the antichrist on April 11, 2012 and the 1335 days of Daniel 12 takes you to pentecost 2012 (may 26,27) when the church is raptured. Just as Jesus had a 3 year actual ministry from 30 ad passover to 33 ad passover, antichrist’s 3 year and thus the great tribulation starts on feast of trumpets sept 17, 2012. There is 1100 days until the day of atonement sept 23, 2015 just as Antiochus Epiphanes profaned the temple for 1100 days in 168-165bc. Christ returns on Feast of Trumpets 2015 (sept 14th) and the the devil is locked up by Day of Atonement 2015 when the millenial reign starts. This is all laid out in my blog http://www.jubilee144.blogspot.com
Will, I checked your blog but I couldn’t figure out a few things. Like why the stock market can trigger the prophecy of Daniel, or what transits of Venus have to do with anything. Venus never appears in the bible nor do transits of either inner planets. And how does Jesus fulfill the first half of the tribulation and if it’s already finished then we are in the second half now – yes?
Also Christ’s ministry was 3-1/2 years, not 3. He would have started on his 30th birthday which was on the feast of trumpets, not Passover. He will return on his birthday, the same day the False Prophet comes to power. (The term “Antichrist” is a misnomer). That much you’ve got right.
If the second coming is in 2015, that is 6 years away, so we are a year into the 7 year tribulation period which means the False Prophet is now in power. But there is no peace plan in Israel and none of the seals have been opened yet.
You’ve thrown around a lot of times and dates but they seem to come out of your imagination. How about some more details to prove what you are saying here. If the beast is already here we want to know who he is. Any ideas?
Well this series is about ‘THE UNIVERSAL FLOOD’.
Thought it may interest you.
Whil this lecture sounds very scientific and could probably convince the average person that what he is saying is true, He makes a lot of assumptions that have no basis in fact and simply lies about certain other things while ignoring some basic truths. I’m sorry but there is no way to explain millions of years of geology in a single year long event. His theory is full of holes and the rest is a pack of lies. He is not a scientist, he is a man with an agenda and twisting the truth to make it fit.
That’s pretty common around here.
Excuse me but Prof. Walter Veith is a scientist.
If you did not watch the series then please refrain from commenting.
And if you did then you must be an evolutionist to make such comments.
I watched all 6 episodes carefully. His science is flawed and biased. I have studied geology or 32 years. I know enough to recognize bad science when I see it.
Take some classes in a real school. Learn some facts. Don’t believe everything you see on line at face value.
That’s all I’m saying.
james
I do not believe everything science says at face value either, just to balance things out here.
Science has NEVER proved that anything took millions of years…..!!!
yet people blindly go along with that claim.
science does not have the tools to measure time back that far. they just make up times to fit their theories.
In estimating “time,” geologists do not have a proper standard curve, so the time data is not valid.
I sure hope the rapture doesn’t occur like this poor cow …
abigail
I now have motivation to lose weight. I don’t want to look like that going up!
LOL HAhahahahahaha yes … especially if someone is filming 🙂
But all jokes aside … there has been an increase in UFO sighting that boggles
the mind … The book of Joel is in the forefront of my thoughts.
Joe 2:9 They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief.
Incredible!!
with such a dramatic thing as UFO abductions, you’d think the bible would have said something…..prophetic….
like…..
I lift up mine eyes unto the skies, to whence goes my cow……….
or….
the euphrates opens, and out comes flying baskets of iron into the earth to torment mankind 42 years.
The Scriptures does speak of these …
A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, [even] to the years of many generations.
Like the noise of chariots on the tops of mountains shall they leap, like the noise of a flame of fire that devoureth the stubble, as a strong people set in battle array.
Before their face the people shall be much pained: all faces shall gather blackness.
Neither shall one thrust another; they shall walk every one in his path: and [when] they fall upon the sword, they shall not be wounded
The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining:
How do the beasts groan! the herds of cattle are perplexed, because they have no pasture; yea, the flocks of sheep are made desolate
The beasts of the field cry also unto thee
Do you not see the book of Joel describing the day of The Lord?
Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD [is] at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.
I know your hatred for Islam …
but not the entire book of the bible speaks of them actually I don’t think they are mentioned at all in the book of Joel.
And what do you mean by 42 years?
you think Joel was referring to an alien invasion? Maybe so…
I was just making up examples.
🙂
Well … this army seems dangerous …
they shall not be wounded …
‘people’ are pained …
there has ‘never’ been the like …
they just do not sound human to me …
the heavens tremble …
the earth quake …
now if he were describing a weapon only I would say yes … maybe human?
but he is describing something called ‘ a great people’ … unlike anything before or after for many generations…
Yes I think the prophet is describing an alien invasion and a scary, powerful, one at that.
When I was 21 yrs. old the Lord showed me that specific army.
They is also spoken of in the book of revelation.
Rev 9:9 And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings [was] as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle
Abigail
The Joel prophecy sounds like a good idea for a post.
I am sorry I did not see this till now …
Yes I think the prophecy of Joel would be a great idea for a post.
Will you do it?
working on it now….i would like to add some indian observations along with joel but not sure how that would mesh together yet. both discuss “aliens”
You are too funny! “to whence goes my cow”
Hi 🙂 I cannot help but listening in about aliens.. I truly never really thought about it until tonight.. I’ll share a dream with you and all… I had this dream from 4 years ago.. It is still fresh in my mind and in heart.
Dream :
I was walking down the street in the line between city and country… and I noticed how people riled up and shouting and gathering weapons of ANYTHING.. like pitchforks, guns, and much more… and heading somewhere.. which I had no idea. Then I kept on walking aware of surroundings… moving closer to vet place or some place that deal with animals. I saw 4 men dragged and carried one beautiful and so silky and well muscled black stallion that looks like dead. I stayed back.. watching it all folding before me.. waiting patiently for those men to leave… which they did rushed out almost like if their tails are on fire.. I looked around to make sure there is no one else… then walk closer and carefully toward the horse.. Nearly upon him.. I was startled at his sudden movement and transformation… He got up on its feet and rushing toward me turning into angel…No shirt…. wings in black.. black boots, black leather pants..
He reached and grabbed my hand at the same time telepathy of his communication telling me to run with him.. So I just followed.. still holding his hand… out of building.. toward yet rather passing what I saw at a glance for details in few seconds that astonished me yet not surprised either… There was riot going on at the mountain with all people around on the ground.. shouting and shaking weapons and fists into air.. I look up what lays above mountain is a huge sized spaceship which looks a lot like alien…
An angel male sent me a word in telepathy was ” Do not worry about it. You will be okay..” Then I looked cross to see where he is going to take me to… and great shock to me was to see how rapidly the land can transformed right before my very eyes… into other place that I cannot place.. all I see was oh so beautiful green pastures… hills.. fresh almost like if it never been touched. Then I saw over his shoulder was more angels like him…BUT VERY COLORFUL wings … Only ONE that stepped forward toward to me with all angels fall behind him..
I take a look at him and he was all gold in his hair, his wings, his clothing..and all other ones in different colors .. Feel oh so familiar and almost like if I knew them before.. wondered if I did or nay…
I jolted in surprise when he only smiled and send me telepathy saying, ” Yes, you do know us.. You are one of us.. OUR family.. You do not need to know names.. Not needed.. Your heart knows. ”
Then I began to think about what I saw about odd spaceship and people.. if those are real or is it someday??
All I heard one small simple word was.. ” yes ” then found myself transferred back to my home.. and woke up..
So, I am not too sure why I remember now to tell..however, I cannot inogre the dreams.. they indeed do have mystery and pictures to put puzzle together… but now I understand. But I am always still am so bewildred at what I have been told..because …
I do not always feel worthy for anything or anyone and even God himself especially because He is Father, Protector, Provider, and Almighty.. Glory and praise to Him..
* sigh * At least, I shared the dream.. and leave it for you all to think about it. Because dreams cannot be ingored at any length since HE is at hand.. So I’ve been told.
It was the 17th. of november 1975 and the experience is fresh to me even after all this time.
I was in a vision on that day. I saw that I was holding a child’s hand and trying to get away … from something. Movement was extremely difficult and so was speaking. It was as though a great fear had gotten a hold of us (me and this child). But so were all the people I saw in great fear and their faces were black! They had turned dark.
I knew it was of extreme importance to conquer this … There was an edifice infront of us with a series of steps and I thought that we could maybe find shelter there in.
But walking was so hard to do … I started to pray silently as speaking was too hard to do.
I held on to the child’s hand encouraging him to keep moving by squeezing his tiny hand.
Every word of my prayer was so hard to think of. But somehow I managed while praying so loud in my soul to reach the top of the staircase.
My prayer intensified in power … but not of my own.
There was a window at the top and I saw as I looked out these men floating on the other side, outside, at a very high altitude. They were coming in. They were going to come in through the window as though they could simply just go through. There was nothing that could stop them.
I cried out for ‘Joel’ and this time with strength.
And then I was completely frozen
End of vision.
Even hours after this aweful and terrible vision I was as paralyzed.
My heart beat was strong just pounding in my chest … I thought I would die.
I had entered a future and I knew that this lay ahead.
I didn’t know who Joel was. Years later I read the book of Joel and recognized my vision.
That day and there after The Lord told me that these … (army) were dangerous!
Abigail,
Yup, they are dangerous. I do recall that part.. I remember so many times since a child at age 3 or 4… I always have been chased by either dragon or those black figure ( all in black.. like darkest than dark itself ) … and worse.. when I got older.. It got manifest and tried every turn to make me fear them but not successful because I ended up fighting back and resisting with all my might and trusting God to guide me through it… Been fighting with them for years and years.. until after brain surgery.. for the first time, everything is.. silent. No more chasing… no more worry when I go to sleep.. That is right after that dream above you that I wrote.. is silence.. watchful… always stay alert 24/7 in wake or sleep state.
You are not alone, Abigail.. 🙂 I know those type.. very familiar and seen often that I had to battle to save myself and saving others by transformed into something else I did not expect to find myself in dream state… becoming angel to guard others from those evil ones..
May God always watch you over.. He will conutine working with you and all who are HIS… He’s firm about that. 😉
If there is any forms you have seen or shown.. I would be glad to verifty for you.. since I have seen nearly MOST of all beasts of Sheol.. and much more that are plowing on ground also.
Blessings.
Tamara,
My first vision of all my life was when I was 7 years old. I remember the age because I had received a watch from my parents for my 7th. birthday.
I was in my bedroom in the early evening …
When suddenly infront of me was The Lord with the apostles …
The Lord lifted up a cup far above His Head and gave thanks and said ‘This is my blood which is shed for you.’
Immediately blood started overflowing the cup and grew and was covering everything.
The sight frightened me so! I started to run away from this living blood.
It was so thick and was flooding the ground, like a river overflowing its banks.
As I was running away from it as fast as I could … it was pursuing me …
I was so afraid … but it kept chasing me, covering everything and by now it was like an ocean.
Then I looked at my feet and saw a dry branch , a dead branch.
Then the vision ended.
It was not a dream … Tamara … it was a vision.
Visions are very frightening because Heaven is opened for you to see when The Lord gives a vision. You see with your soul.
You see a drama outside the realm of time and understanding is given.
I have also had dreams and these are different but I cannot tell you the difference.
Except maybe that you wake up ?
Dreams from God are holy because they come from Him.
I just thought to speak to you about these things and yes God is Mighty!
Correction …
The cup was not lifted over His Head … He was holding the cup in His Hand.
A flash back and a correction from the Holy Spirit.
Sorry …
I am a woman …
It is interesting to hear of these dreams. I had one about a spaceship back in the 1970s also.
I went up inside through the bottom center of it, and saw people who had boarded, and were walking around the promenade area, and looking out a big window to the outside. They all seemed to be there voluntarily.
I had assumed I had been watching too much tv, because star trek was a favorite show of mine. But it may have had more predictive value than I thought.
People now think aliens are their creators from past ancient history, and there will be many deceived people who will willingly board UFOs to become part of what the aliens want.
Marianne,
It was not a dream! Now I don’t need brain surgery …
Another point here I don’t watch t.v. Only in this last year have I been viewing Utube.
And even at that I do not watch it for entertainment.
I was referring to the book of Joel an linking it to rev. 9 …
Whatever …
I sure don’t like to be taken lightly on what I regard a serious subject. You will see it soon as many and none will be slightly prepared. Why ? Because people scoff with no understanding at all.
Anyways have a good day.
ok..
you had a vision….tamera had a dream….
but I do take things seriously…which is why I put material on this blog, to inform others.
Hi Ladies,
I’m a little late..being March 2010 (and sorry Marianne, just HAD to say something LOL)…I have never had a vision and think that it is awesome that God would do that for you Abigail. I have had alot of “dreams” though back in my 20s (right after receiving the Baptism) The most recent one I posted on another site “who goes who stays”. Would love your thoughts on that one-The last time I had a “dream” from G-d was over 20 years ago, so I am soooo excited that I have heard from Him again.
Here is the “dream” I had on Saturday, March 13th, 2010:
I just had the most amazing dream that I had to share it here…was trying to find the right post to put it:
In my dream, I am in the passenger seat of a white truck that my friend (former friend in reality; we haven’t spoken since last summer due to her being involved in witchcraft etc) is driving. We are at the gas station. As we are turning around the corner beside the gas station I see in the sky the most AMAZING Beautiful sight! I saw the sun rays shining thru clouds and the clouds begin to make the formation of a hand. I thought this was so unique and beautiful and told my friend to LOOK, LOOK! I looked over at her and saw that she wasn’t looking at all, granted she was driving, but this was AMAZING! So I jumped out of the truck so that I wouldn’t miss such a beautiful display. I had also seen across the street another group of people, about 3 of them also getting out of their truck to look. Then the display of clouds forming into a hand actually became a real HAND! WOW….While standing there, I notice that the hand points one of its fingers and its pointing at me!!!!! Then I saw the group of people across the street looking up and then one of the ladies with them, wearing green shorts (have no idea why I remembered that) was floating upward. I thought WOW….and then I felt this most awesome tingling sensation go thru out my body (reminded me of when I received the Baptism in the HOly Spirit) and I felt myself being lifted up as well…I then realized what was going on and I looked towards my friend who was now in front of the truck looking at the same thing and I said “its the rapture! Its time! Its time!” I remember the look on her face; she was not happy…and then I thought to myself, “who is going to take care of my dogs” and then I woke up!
lyndsey said this on March 13, 2010 at 9:16 pm | Reply
I think the date you had the dream will give you an indication of the timing, those March dates keep coming up.
hello sir,
its not like that. what jesus said. no one knows the time,date anything even the son of man knows. only god,the father knows that hour.so please dont misroute others. then u have to face the wrath of god. many things which u told is good. but not this.
dear jebakumar
You are right. There is no way to really know the date.
But what I hope to do here is create interest in the last days, and make people think about this and realize there is not much time left for them.
If they will start thinking about this, those who are not saved yet might turn their thoughts toward God, and change their lives.
So this blog prophesied the “rapture” last fall and it didn’t happen. I think that’s what is known as a false prophet. It brings damage to the the reputation of God when people make up these stupid estimates for this secret “rapture” event and then it doesn’t happen. Don’t you get that it won’t ever happen at a time it’s been propeshied for because no one knows the date? Duh! Besides, the Bible teaches that the final judgment will occur at the return Christ. That’s what those verses are talking about – not some secret disappearance that brings chaos. God is a god of order. Please look at the context of the verses. Based on the few verses that supposedly support this “rapture” idea, would anybody come up with this doctrine on their own if it hadn’t been taught to you first? That kind of interpretation is very bad exegesis. The rapture didn’t even exist as a teaching until the mid 1800s. Gee whiz. If it’s taught in the Bible, then how did all the church fathers miss it? Note that John Nelson Darby made up this doctrine after vising Scotland in 1830 and observing Margaret McDonald’s end times ramblings which he billed as demonic. He returned to Ireland and the following year (1831) he introduced his “rapture” doctrine.
Hi Edward,
If you look carefully, we did not predict the rapture to occur last year. We were saying that it could possibly occur around Passover time, of any year, and then mentioned when Passover occurred in 2009.
This did not mean to predict that it would occur then. I apologize if it came across that way.
We could have also mentioned when Passover would occur in 2010,2011, or 2012 as well.
I personally think the rapture is the same as the second coming, which would occur after the tribulation. I guess we will not know until it happens.
Hi Marianne,
Awesome blog. I have never even considered participating in one before but I am impressed with the way you meditate this. You are very Gracious.
I have a few questions for anyone to ponder and explore.
The 7 churches in Revelation, who do they represent now?
The church in Sardis is told to “Wake up!” repent, or I will come like a thief in the night. (So He will not surprise some…if they repent, they will know the time of His return? (See also 1 Thess. 5:1-11)
I also believe that the Jews who have not yet accepted Jesus as Messiah have a different fate than the Christians but do the different churches (different Christians) described in Revelation have different fates?
Also, why do some of you think that the rapture will take place on Passover? I think it likely it will be on the Feast of Trumpets and He will come to rule on the Day of Atonement.
I personally think the 144,000 will be sealed on Passover. (not that other things won’t happen on that day. God seems to do important things at His Appointed Times)
I have a lot more questions but will save them for future posts.
Thanks Marianne.
In Truth,
Malia
hi Malia
I think the 7 churches still represent 7 types of churches and church problems we see today.
There is only one fate for those who will not repent, and be born again, and one fate for those who WILL repent, and stay faithful to Jesus. Their religious and church status does not matter.
only those who have been martyred for their faith and those that remain, but are faithful are not criticized, and told to repent.
Only those who are faithful are told they will be spared from the trouble to come.
All others – Jews and untested Christians – need to brace themselves for tribulation.
The idea of coming on or around Passover comes from the concept that he will return as he left, and about the same time, to rapture the faithful, but those who go through the tribulation do not see him until 3 1/2 years later, at Armageddon, and this will be about the time of Trumpets.
However, I think the rapture will occur closer to Shavuot, which is only 50 days after Passover.
Traditionally, the 144,000 (ha-Bikkurim) are sealed on Shavuot, or Pentecost.
https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/the-144000-and-the-rest-of-the-jews/
Shavuot commemorates the time when the first fruits (ha-Bikkurim) were harvested and brought to the Temple. The 144,000 are the Bikkurim.
So, they are sealed on Passover, but raptured on Shavuot.
Does this make any sense?
Something I have been pondering, is the possibility that Christ was born around passover as well. I was thinking about so things I have read debating that Christ may have been born in early spring (though others think Fall). We know that God uses a lot of symbolism and parallel symbolism. And the symbolism of being born into human form, then many yrs later he was resurrected (reborn/ born again/ etc) on his birthday. IDK- I haven’t read this comparison or thought elsewhere. I was chit chatting w/ my 9yr old daughter, whose Birthday is April 9th, and for some reason that thought came to mind- kinda out of nowhere.
Any thoughts on this? And I agree- I have been very impressed w/ your demeanor and respect when dealing w/ all the different personalities I seen on here. Very unique mediator, in deed. But a true breath of fresh air. I get tired of Christians bickering and being disrespectful towards one another. Not realizing that they are breaking commandments, in doing so. Nor realizing that people tend not to listen to another when they are being attacked or ridiculed. It really makes me sad when I see this. God Bless!
It is my understanding that Christ’s return/Rapture would be on Feasts of Trumpets as well..”no man knows the day or hour” would be feasts of trumpets. Jesus fullfilled the first 3 or 5 holidays/holy days the first go around…so he would finish out with the last 3 holidays right?
meant to write “3 or 4..not 5”
hi lyndsey
That would be the right idea……he would fulfill all feasts.
He will fulfill the next two with his second coming and judgement of the wicked ten days later. The feast of tabernacles will still be practiced throughout the millennium.
Marianne,
ou have given me something to look into. I will get back to you after I have studied some more.
Thanks!
Forgive my simplicity….when everyone says “be ready”, what exactly does this mean? Do we stock up on supplies, water, food, first aid, pay ahead on bills etc….? I can understand the need for the above if we are to stay here and go thru the tribulation but if we are being taken up with Christ (raptured) then what does “ready” imply for this? Is it spiritual ready? Physical ready?
hi lyndsey
“Be ready” could be different for each person.
Some need to read the bible and know what to expect, and strengthen their faith.
We all need to be prepared for emergency situations anyhow, even if it is not end time related.
For example, God will still be with us and protect us, but it would be nice to be prepared for a hurricane or flood in our area.
Others might need to be ready to help others…..a spare room could help someone who is moving away from a disaster area.
We all need to be wise politically, and recognize evil in government that is antichrist in nature.
Just read, understand what is to come, and then follow what God gives you in your heart to do.
Thank you Marianne! You know my concerns regarding my sons…I really have to remind myself that G-D loves us and will look out for us. With Williams’ Autism, he only eats certain things…as you can see , this would create a big problem if not able to “buy or sell”. I am truly hoping that G-d will remove us before it gets to that point.
There may be good news and bad news here. Bad news is we will all have to go thru the tribulation together – the rapture won’t happen until Christ returns on the 7th trump.
But the good news is that you won’t have to worry about buying stuff. There won’t be a chip.
All you need to do is to keep God’s commandments and you will all get thru it. He promises that in the Book of Revelation.
Revelation 14:11-12
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Revelation 22:14
14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Those who refuse the mark keep the commandments, those who take it, do not. The mark is all about keeping God’s laws, not microchips.
These are my thoughts as to what is going on based upon the HS telling me that “it has begun” the night Obama won in 2008. I am thinking that perhaps what the HS meant by “it has begun” was the tribulation. Perhaps we are already in the tribulation period. When Obama was “officially” president it was in 2009. Now 3.5 years later -into the tribulation-would put us at 2012-LATE 2012…(Dec 21, 2012…ring a bell?) Obama would be up for relection….most likely win etc. Ok, 3 years later, 2015 is when the LAST Solar/Lunar eclipses on a Jewish Holiday occur (as noted in other posts, there were only 2 other times that Solar/lunar eclipses occured on a Jewish Holiday and that was 1945 (when Israel became a country) and 1967 (6 day war and Jerusalem was won). The next and last time this century that the Solar/Lunar eclipses occur on a Jewish Holy day will be in 2015. Matthew 24, Jesus says that “AFTER the tribulation…the sun will turn to sackcloth and the moon will turn to blood (solar and lunar eclipses) SO…….if its AFTER the tribulation…counting back 7 years….that puts us back to 2008.
hi Lyndsey
It is possibly true…..we might be deeper into this than we realize. Much of what has been predicted is already occurring in other countries…America has been protected so far, but that is changing……
According to most folks (not me) the tribulation will not begin until a one-world government has been created and a charismatic leader has taken power over all nations on earth. Obama is clearly not that man, no one seems to know who he is going to be. So you must wait patiently for the New World Order to become a reality. But don’t worry, many say it is just around the corner. Until then don’t be distracted with US politics. The “antichrist” will come from Europe.
As for 2015, it is not a factor. Look ahead. The eclipse theory was interesting, but ultimately it was just some ones fervent imagination. You get that a lot in prophecy.
Hope this helps.
Hi James,
This is the link where I got the information regarding the solar/lunar eclipses in 2014/2015 occuring on a Jewish Holy Day…the information came also from the US gov Nasa website…
http://www.triumphpro.com/blood-red-lunar-eclipses-and-solar-eclipses.htm
“Astonishing as it seems, four lunar eclipses will occur on
God’s annual Holy Days during Passover and Sukkot in the
years 2014 and 2015, and two solar eclipses on Nisan 1 and
the Feast of Trumpets! These are exceedingly rare occurrences,
especially when they dovetail with God’s Holy Days! What
does it all mean? What is the prophetic significance? It’s
time to wake up and take heed of these ominous, fateful
warnings from heaven!” (William F. Dankenbring)
*with our “increase of knowledge/technology” we are fortunate in that we are able to actually see “the signs in the heavens” that Jesus talked about!
Thanks for the link, it was interesting. For a moment I though you were saying that NASA was suggesting the eclipses were biblically related. Now that would have surprised me.
In any case they may indeed be signs of the second coming. They are not a new discovery however. These eclipses were predicted a thousand years ago. Even the ancient Mayans could have predicted them. The fact that they fall on Jewish holy days may have only recently been realized since the Mayans and European astronomers were probably not into the Jewish festivals, and the Jews wouldn’t relate them to the return of Jesus, so the correlation was not discovered until recently.
That may have been by design if they are indeed end-time prophecy. It may be that a piece of prophecy will be fulfilled on each of those days or within that time frame. Perhaps the false prophet will take the throne on one of those days.
While it won’t be the second coming it may herald the beginning of the decade before the tribulation.
Personally I think “signs in the heavens” may be something more spectacular than a few simple eclipses. I think they may be a sign to everyone that God is real and he is on his way back.
All we can really do is wait patiently, spread the word and get ready.
Are you familar with the heavenly sign that began Sept 29 (Feasts of Trumpets) and continued until 11-11-11?
Very clear, when seen with Stellaium astonomy software. You can only see the heavenly sign with software or math/charts because it occurs during the daylight hours (“she is clothed in the sun”). It was the sign of Rev 12:1-3 and the later verses in the chapter that describe the war in heaven.
To see this, someone would need to “know” the signs in the heavens, be looking up. understand the same signs of His birth and Day of the Cross to know and recognize this sign. It is not for the average Joe. Seems to me to be a sign for believers and watchters.
In my opinion, the 7 year period started, if not with this sign on Feasts of Trumpets on Sept 29, 2011, then it was September 2010. That is when a signature was placed on a peace agreement by all parties concerned (EU, USA, Arab Leaders, and Israel).
These are a few key lines from a new story on the event in the Jerusalem Post, September 2010.
“It is now time for decisions, not for negotiations,” he said, and referred to building moratorium saying that the next few days would be key in determining the direction of progress. “We have reached agreement on the agenda of the direct talks,” Erekat said. “We have also reached agreement on a timeline for a temporary framework agreement – 12 months.”
Netanyahu also said in Washington that the goal of the talks was to reach a framework agreement within a year, meaning an agreement in principle on the core issues between the leaders, with the negotiating teams left to work out all the details. In private meetings, Netanyahu has dismissed as secondary domestic political concerns, saying that what was important was “to reach an agreement I believe in.”
Israeli officials would not confirm any of Erekat’s claims, saying that it was agreed in Washington that the content of the talks would not be leaked. Netanyahu, when asked in Washington why he was saying nothing about the content of the negotiations, told journalists, “You want headlines, I want an agreement.”
PA negotiators who were in Washington last week for the launch of the direct talks spoke with some optimism about “understandings” and “agreements” that were achieved in meetings between the two sides.”
This was a confidential, behind closed door meeting in Washington DC. Obama, King of Jordan, EU leaders, Erekat and Netanyhau all present. There was a grand picture of Obama walking with King of Jordan and president of Egypt down the White House hallway. An “agreement” was reached to advance peace talks. That is a process move with an understanding that the details will be worked out and “peace will be achieved”.
The solar/lunar cycle of 2015, on Feasts days in September – a Sabbatical month, during a Sabbatical year along with the 1948 to 2018 spread of a 70 year generation, tells me that we are within the seventh week of Daniel.
I’ve posted something on the 4 seals that maybe of interest to you too. I think the fiery red horse is out of the barn!
DJ,
You are referring to the fact that the sun is located in the constellation Virgo at that time of the year. It is there EVERY year and has been for a couple thousand years. But it doesn’t stay in the same constellation forever. Due to the precession of the equinoxes it slowly slides around the zodiac every 26,000 years. So at the time of Christ, the sun would not have been in Virgo until Oct/Nov.
So anyway, there is no reason to use this occurrence as a prophetic sign.
As for the “peace covenant” you mentioned, it is irrelevant since the 70th week of Daniel has already been fulfilled – by Jesus – and the covenant was in fact the New Covenant of the New Testament. Many people who believe in the “Left Behind” books have taken the 70th week into the future and applied it to the Antichrist, but if you read the text carefully you will realize that it was about the Messiah and His 7-year plan to preach the New Testament to the Jews, but half-way thru He was killed (cut off). The 7 years ends with the stoning of Steven when Jews rejected Jesus as their savior and thus the Christian era began.
Those people who are looking for an Antichrist figure to make a 7-year peace plan are in for a long wait. Instead I believe they will take any old peace agreement they can find and try to turn it into something that it is not.
But I’m curious, if the first seal – white horse (the Antichrist) – has been broken and the peace plan set into motion, would you like to tell us just who the Antichrist is?
As for the red horse (WW3) – I don’t see it just around the corner right now. I couldn’t find the post you mentioned so I’ll wait till I can read it before adding more.
Bless…
I have noticed that when I talk to people about what I have learned here on your site and how Jesus’ return is closer than we thought, they just look at me and smile and sometimes actually laugh! I am honestly trying to be a witness for Christ and trying to let them know how real this is. I could just imagine what Noah and his family went through!
lyndsey
Do not be disheartened.
I go through this also, with my own family members, even “church” people. Somehow truth has been so elevated and disconnected from most people that an ordinary person does not seem to have any right to it.
They see us as no one special, so why should we have special insights?
The answer is the holy spirit, but they do not see this, because they lack him in their lives.
Just keep trying. Even a seed of truth will eventually grow. We might not be around to see it, but God will make all seeds grow.
So true! Thank you marianne…william is holding my left hand and refusing to let me type….lol…awwww…life is full…another day in paradise 🙂
Are you for real? A day in Paradise?
In it are lies!
Huh?
May I ask Abigail what you are talking about? “Are you for real? A day in Paradise?
In it are lies!”…this doesn’t make any sense…
I like this song. I like to post songs too. Abigail likes to write poetically. I don’t have that gift either, let alone writing. We can’t all be the head? I’ll be satisfied with being a toe.
According to Jesus, in Hos very own words, there will be NO rapture prior to His return anyhow. Just read Matt 24 with due care and attention. Rapture theory is flawed.
Like in Noah,s days, expect to be taken aside for your own safety. Read Revelation 12……..and don’t speculate so much, it only confuses people. Silently trust the Lord……… 🙂
29 “Immediately ***after the misery*** of those days, the sun will turn dark, the moon will not give light, the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the universe will be shaken. 30 “Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky. All the people on earth will cry in agony when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds in the sky with power and great glory. 31 He will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and from every direction under the sky, they will gather those whom God has chosen.
Matthew 24:29-31 (GOD’S WORD to the Nations)
The woman was given the two wings of the large eagle in order to fly away from the snake to her place in the wilderness, where she could be taken care of for a time, times, and half a time. Revelation 12:14 (GOD’S WORD to the Nations)
I agree with the picture of Noah’s day. 7 days were given to Noah to gather into the arc just as 7 days of Unleavened Bread seem to picture a week of being consecrated in preparation of meeting the Lord. Scriptures suggests that the 3 harvests of Israel, seen in the 3 Main Feasts of Israel, point to and picture the 3 steps of harvest God commanded the Jews to follow. This also points to the 3 signs Paul mentioned in 2 Thes and justifies the 3 differnet groups of people seen in Revelation(those of all nations of an uncountable number, the 144,000 Jewish men who consecrated themselves before being taken(hence they didnt sleep with their wives), and those who overcame the Mark of the Beast and were also martyrs).
*note: Marital sex of course isnt a sin no more than food is a sin but men are commanded to fast from food and consecrate from marital sex when about to meet the Lord for there is a time and place for everything.
hi Jamar
Thanks for your comment. I look forward to the feasts offered by Yeshua when he returns. Trouble is ahead of us, but beyond that the hope of the ages will be here, to make things right again.
We Are As The Days of Noah Now…God rescued the Righteous (Noah, and his family! Lot, and his family) prior to his Judgment (Wrath) on those Left Behind. Just as us Saved Born Again (New Creatures) Rapture before the Tribulation (Wrath)
Noahs Ark, As The Days Of Noah Rapture
http://www.raptureprophecy.net/noahs-ark-as-the-days-of-noah-rapture
hi rapture
I see the end time divided into 2 parts : Tribulation and Wrath
We would be here for the tribulation, since the martyrdom of saints is mentioned, and then gone for the Wrath period.
The remaining saints leave at the 6th seal, when the wrath begins. So to me, the rapture would occur at the 6th seal.
Before that time, there may be a fake rapture initiated by satan, which new agers call the ascension, and this is due in 2012, from what I understand.
https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/fire-brimstone-the-ascension/
those that “ascend” are going to a bad situation.
So, we should be alert to the spirit of God to guide us, and not be deceived by any devices of the enemy.
that is what I think, anyhow.
be blessed.
God did not remove Noah from the flood, He merely warned him that it was coming so that he could be prepared. But Noah and his family were surrounded by the flood and it rained on them for forty days. Christians have been warned about the coming tribulation so we may be prepared for it. We will not be getting a free pass by being whisked to heaven. Such a move is unnecessary and without biblical precedence.
Sure, a rapture would be pretty cool and all, but I’m afraid its no more than wishful thinking.
I wouldn’t get too attached to the idea if I were you.
In addition to the individuals mentioned above by “Rapture”, apparently a PRECEDENT for this type of thing has already been established and foreshadowed with Enoch, (Genesis 5:24) where the English word “took” in the King James, was translated from the Hebrew word “לקח”, transliterated “laqach” (Strong’s 3947). The primary definitions of this word are, “to take, get, fetch, lay hold of, seize, receive, acquire, buy, bring, marry, take a wife, snatch, and take away.”
There is also Elijah, (2 Kings 2:11) where the author of that particular book, (who is unknown), expressed a more wonderfully detailed description of a similar event. Whatever the case, God has obviously chosen to do this before. It is right there in black and white for everyone to read. So I really don’t understand as to why there are any Christians that refuse to believe that it could very well be possible that He may choose to do it again?
For just one out of many examples there is Psalms 18:2.
“The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, “and my deliverer” ; my God, my strength, in whom I will trust ; my buckler, and the horn of my salvation, and my high tower.”
The words translated into the English “and my deliverer” is from the Hebrew “פלט” transliterated as “palat” (Strong’s 6403).
Its definitions are;
1) to escape, save, deliver, slip away
a) (Qal) to escape
b) (Piel)
1) to bring into security, deliver
2) to cause to escape, cast forth
3) to be delivered
4) to slip away
c) (Hiphil) to bring into security, bring to safety
Note that within the definition above, it doesn’t imply anywhere that “to be delivered” has any implication in respects to punishment.
Be Blessed
The “rapture” of a couple of God’s favorite prophets can not be compared to a billion modern-day Christians. I believe God has a special purpose for Enoch and Elijah, perhaps as His two witnesses who must eventually be killed and therefore can not yet have a spiritual body. They were not removed from earth for their own protection, so there is no real analogy there.
And why take them all to heaven? If they are transformed into spiritual beings, they are safe from death, so there is no need to remove them from harms way. Why not let them stay and preach to the masses?
I think if a pre-trib rapture were real, the bible would have been absolutely clear about it and there would be no room for discussion.
I think anyone who is arrogant enough to assume that God is going to personally save them is probably not the type of person He would actually save.
Be humble. Ask God that you might do His work during the tribulation, not be rescued from it.
Peace.
Quote from above; “The “rapture” of a couple of God’s favorite prophets can not be compared to a billion modern-day Christians.”
Why not?
Quote from above; “I believe God has a special purpose for Enoch and Elijah, perhaps as His two witnesses who must eventually be killed and therefore can not yet have a spiritual body. They were not removed from earth for their own protection, so there is no real analogy there.”
Well I believe that more than likely both Enoch and Elijah will be the two witnesses. However within that sentence are you saying that God has no special purpose in store for those that have accepted His Son Yeshua?
As well, is there not the possibility that you are limiting God within the remainder of that sentence by stating that neither of them could have a spiritual body? He could very well have given both of them a spiritual body just as easily as He could return them in a fleshy one. Or do you suppose that this would perhaps be to difficult for Him to perform?
I agree that as far as we know, that they were not removed for their own protection, however the analogy would be relevant to the act itself as being performed, rather than the circumstance or reason for it.
Quote from above, “And why take them all to heaven?”
Because they have overcome the world, and maintained and practiced their faith. They have been purchased by the shedding of His blood and are His possession, His Bride.
Quote from above; “Why not let them stay and preach to the masses?”
I believe that those that will do exactly that, are described quite clearly within scripture.
Quote from above; “I think if a pre-trib rapture were real, the bible would have been absolutely clear about it and there would be no room for discussion.”
I believe that the premise itself is expressed with extreme clarity. However if we were to take your statement and apply it to the whole of scripture, not only would this site not exist, (for the necessity of discussion itself regarding any topic, would be redundant), but there would only be one faith as well. So just because we happen to have those that accept the premise, and those who do not, does not eliminate it as being a distinct possibility.
Quote from above; “I think anyone who is arrogant enough to assume that God is going to personally save them is probably not the type of person He would actually save.”
That is why I am grateful that you are not God. 🙂
Be Blessed
Hi JG and Alie!
Glad you both agree that a post-tribulation rapture is a possibility. : )
Say, what do you think about the following verse? Who are the “my people” of this verse?
Isa 26:20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
Isa 26:21 For, behold, Jehovah cometh forth out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.
Hey 45, How ya doing?
I guess there was a small break in communication there.
I’m not a Post-Tribber in regards to the Resurrection. I’m a Pre-Tribber!
Much of my ideology can be found below;
https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/rapture-and-church-of-philadelphia/
Yeah, I was called away into prayer regarding a matter…
And yeah, also figured you were(are) a Pre-Tribber. Was only addressing the Tribber part : ), as a common frame of reference to pose a question to the both of you regarding Isaiah 26:20.
Will go to the link and read…
Sorry 45.
Okay…. Isaiah 26:20,21. is either part of the preceding song, or an introduction regarding something new.
Either way, in holding a Pre-Trib point of view, it is my belief that the “people” there would be referring to the Jews.
Be blessed
The two witnesses show up right at the time the Anti-Christ shows his true self, and walks into the Holy of Holies pronouncing himself all things to all people.
I think that would be the time of a rapture. To take those who believe in Christ away from the wrath of G-d about to be given to mankind.
The Bible states when you see this to flee to the wilderness. Eligah had to flee after taking off 300 Bael priest heads.
As we are slated for fire this time, and not water, it might be a good idea to have a USMC ammo dumb type shelter in the wilderness. Complete with wine, and MRE’S. Don’t forget ammo, BDU’s…
sounds good. Leatherneck, I want to come stay with you….!
Hi ya Leatherneck,
I believe that the Two Witnesses will show up “right at the beginning of the Tribulation”, and will prophecy for 1260 days, “before” they are killed by the beast that comes out of the bottomless pit.
I don’t think that you will need that shelter.
Be Blessed
With all the Tornados, and 120 heat, a strong well stocked shelter is in order.
Marianne, you are welcome in the shelter. I hope you like corn bread, beans, and deer meat.
my “shelter” is just my house with supplies. Nothing underground. Is that what you have?
Right now my only shelter is G-d’s grace in christ’s name. But, he tells me to square my nasty self away with a Marine Corp ammo dump in the wilderness to secure my wife, and child. Or, I am so scared of another 400 tornados, earthquakes, and 500 year floods, I think I am suppose to hide from the wrath of G-d I see happening.
I have 40 acres in southeast Oklahoma down in a creek bottom. I have been improving it, but the ammo dumb I want costs $12,000. Add $2500 for a water well.
I bet if Noah was alive right now, he would die of a heart attack seeing all the murder, wars, and homo marriage.
This winter is mild. What does the spring bring? Is it tied with how our government is helping terrorists?
I got one acre in a residential neighborhood….I am not allowed to have my own well because there is a community well, and they have been given a monopoly. I have about 1000 rounds. and 3 guns
I think the winters will be mild again next year, but still cold enough to be called winter.
I think spring will bring many threats but there will be delays in events, as the powers that be want to be re-elected. Everything will go south after november.
Beans taste good, but oh my, the flatulence smell accumulation in those close quarters! Hope someone remembers to bring a hefty supply of beano, simethicone, or digestive enzyme tablets… Hope also the Lord blesses you with a good ventilation system. : )
Lol. I was just kidding about the beans.
One main question to be answered here is whether the faithful will be protected here on earth during the tribulation or will they be taken all the way to heaven for that purpose. Simple logic makes a trip to heaven unlikely. First of all, scripture only says we will meet Jesus in the clouds/air, but does not indicate that we go any further. Logic says that if we have been transformed into spirit beings, we are already protected and going to heaven is a waste of time. It would also be a waste of valuable resources, to take all those Christians from a world who could really use them during trying times with God’s enemies in charge of things.
Also, why resurrect the dead too? Are they to be in danger as well? Maybe for a little heavenly vacation? It just doesn’t make sense. And what’s to do in heaven? Cable TV? Checkers? Might be pretty boring for most of us. But maybe time doesn’t exist in heaven. Perhaps that’s why Enoch and Elijah can be returned alive as two witnesses. If that’s the case, we won’t even know we were ever there. Maybe we will be here one minute and a moment later we awake with Christ in the air as He returns for real.
Which brings me to my main point…
Everyone is so worried about perishing in the Great Tribulation. They are willing to go to extremes to try to survive, including building shelters and stocking up on supplies etc. But Jesus tells us that those who try to save their lives will lose them and those who lose their life will receive eternal life. So what is everyone so scared for? If we die, we wake up an instant later with the Lord in the air, perhaps the same as the rapture, so what’s the difference.
Jesus died for you on the cross. Are you unwilling to do the same for Him? You are already guaranteed everlasting life, don’t you want to spend part of yours doing His work? The apostles all did it. The Christians that were thrown to the lions did it. The original martyrs of the early church did it. Where was their rapture? Why are we so much more deserving than they were?
Well friends, we are not. It is simply our turn. What we make of it may determine our rewards in the kingdom of God.
Keep that in mind while you sit back and wait for your ticket to ride.
God bless and good luck either way.
I’ll see you in the lion’s den.
It is one thing to write I will die for Christ, it is another to do it. Easy to say, but hard to do.
I hope I can do it if/when my time comes, and not reach for my Mossberg.
For me, it is the physical pain I do not want my wife, or child to have. Unless you are Amish, is it hard to understand that?
When I was younger, I thought I could not ship evil men. Now, after serving for my country, I know shipping evil men is the right thing to do.
shipping?
Also known as getting rid of, or sending to G-d.
JG you are certainly more stimulating than the ‘cow rapture video’ much earlier in this thread. You made several great points. Thank you.
Dying: “Will it hurt?” Probably. (no matter how it comes)
The idea of martyrdom is very scary to my flesh. Dying to the flesh is far easier said than done, i.e. embracing the cross unto full surrender. If and whenever a person is ‘blessed’ with a near death experience, then the reality of finite limits to this mortal body begins to sink into clear focus. And in that moment of acknowledging one’s own mortal end, a question sometimes comes to mind: “Since I am going to die no matter what, and the method of that death may potentially bring an eternal reward, then; Does not wisdom declare the more prudent method of exiting life to be one in which an eternal reward can be laid hold of?”
“He is no fool who gives up what he cannot keep, to gain that which he cannot lose.” – – quote of Jim Elliott (modern day martyr of Jesus)
Speaking of Lions. If I’m not mistaken, a lion’s method killing its prey is only to pin its victim to the ground so as to be able to bite down on the neck to sufficate it. Only once dead does the feast begin. So lions have little interest in useless expenditure of energy to torture victims, especially victims which yield themselves to the lion’s power. In this way, Lions are merciful. Torture is more common among humans who are filled with demons, not so common from animals. And while the thought of decapitation has been dramatised as horrendously wicked, it actually is a pretty quick and relatively painless way of dying.
The nature channel shows lions eating before the victim is dead. Again, we we want to do is easy to write, but when your child is screaming how easy will it be then.
Which brings another point. G-d watched his only son be murdered for us. Could we do the same? I am sure I would reach for the Mossberg to ship any evil men that would do such a thing if I refuse to take the mark.
G-d said we would not be sent to hell for picking up the sword, but die by it. I just hope I am strong in the Lord when it is my time to choose.
If you read the account of St Stephen’s martyrdom you will see that heaven openend for him and in fact his soul ascended to heaven before his body died, as the first martyr he is the prto-type and I think our experience will be the same.
Hope I’ve given everyone something to think about. I’ve been in some medical conditions where I have made my peace with God and told Him if He wants to take me now I’ll be seeing Him soon go ahead.
As for being tortured by the Antichrist, I don’t believe that will happen, so it doesn’t worry me. But Jesus would most likely protect us from that if it were to go down. It’s the 2nd- 4th seals that will take the most lives. War and its aftermath are common to much of the world and the center of action will be the middle east so we can’t be certain how America will fare, but the war will be of man’s own doing and not the wrath of God, so why should we expect Him to protect us from ourselves? By the time the wrath does occur those without the mark will be under His protection and should make it to the second coming. Even those with the mark will make it, as Revelation says they will receive the last plagues and will wish for death but it will not come.
I’m sure there will be hardship all over the planet, but that is already true in many countries, so richer countries will simply get a taste of what they are going through already. With the state of the economy deteriorating as it is, we may get there before the seals are even opened. Heck, many people are predicting a financial collapse and a major world war (over oil) regardless of what the bible says. So God or not, the suffering may be the same.
My point is that pain and suffering have been part of the human condition since the fall of Adam. If the Jews were not spared from the holocaust, then I can’t be sure we will be spared from the tribulation, nor should we be.
All we need to do is keep our faith in Jesus and remember that the short time we spend in human bodies is nothing when compared to an eternity with the Lord. With that in mind, we can get thru just about anything, wouldn’t you say?
Bless.
James I am sorry to read you are sick. I enjoy reading your posts.
The Bible reads the Anti-Christ will make war with the Saints. The Bible reads to flee to the wilderness. Why do you pick, and choose?
We should be smart.
Hi ya James,
Placing ideology and interpretation aside, I am sorry to hear that you are experiencing some medical issues.
I pray that the Lord cradles you within His loving hands, and keeps you close within His heart.
Take Care,
Be Blessed.
“and told Him if He wants to take me now I’ll be seeing Him soon go ahead.”
I know this prayer cause its left my lips also. Appreciate your transperancy.
Will very much enjoy your fellowship in heaven James,
but for now I will be praying you don’t arrive there before me.
Hows that for greed and envious competition? : )
Shalom, my brother.
hi james
Wishing you health and healing.
Thank you all for your kind words. While I am looking forward to getting my right leg back in the millennium, I do hope I can hang around a bit longer and to help do the Lord’s work.
As for me fleeing to the wilderness, that’s not going to be easy for me, so I’ll just stay and fight if it ever comes down to it. Worst case is I get to flash forward to the clouds with Christ, which probably beats hunkering down in a bunker for a few years, so I won’t complain.
For now, I’m feeling fine, I have many friends and we help one another out with whatever we can, so life is good.
If Satan is coming soon, fine. Bring him on, I’ll be ready for the good fight.
Hope you’ll all be there with me. Together we can overcome.
Bless.
You are welcome in the bunker you know JG, per Jer31:8. Flashing forward might be easier than bunker hunkering, but your wit and love for the John16:13 Spirit of Truth would make bunker-life more tolerable, so there is purpose if you feel up to it. And afterwards, for sure I will get a kick out seeing you Isa35:6 leap like a deer in the restoration of all things! (no pun intended)
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Jer 31:8 Behold, I will bring them from the north country and gather them from the corners of the earth, and with them the blind AND THE LAME, the woman with child and she who is in labor with child, together; a great company shall return there.
Hey, if God’s word must be spread from bunkers, then I’m in!
But if I’m right, we won’t be hiding from an evil Antichrist, so bunkers won’t be necessary, except to survive WW3 of course.
So if we don’t both get nuked, it sounds like a plan!
🙂
Below is the latest speculative scenario with respect to a possible TAMMUZ 17/July 7 RAPTURE:
The year 5779 begins at Rosh, 2018, lasting until Rosh, 2019 which would start the year 5780. Whatever happens in the year 5779 (Rosh 2018 to Rosh 2019) is STILL year 5779; so whether it is SIX MONTHS past Rosh, 2018 or MORE, it doesn’t matter because the ‘count’ cannot begin until the year is completed. Thus ALL the patterns ending perfectly at Rosh 2018 are still valid.
FOUR FAST DAYS must be turned to JOY according to Zech 8:19: Tammuz 17, Av 9, Tishrei 10 (Yom Kip) and Tevet 10. Three of those FAST DAYS have NOT YET been turned to joy.
Yom Kippur was already turned to joy when God tore the veil of the Holy of Holies when Jesus hung on the cross. It became a day of joy because potential access to God was granted for all all humans on that day with the opening of the Holy of Holies.
Here’s the presumed scenario as I now see it:
The Rev 11 angelic measuring of the Temple Mt UFO above Jerusalem, Jan 29, 2011 was SHEVAT 24 and 1 Jewish year later (1-yr warning/Jerem 51:46) was SHEVAT 24, 2012 (Feb 17). Shevat 24 is the 11th Jewish month, 24th day; and 11 is judgment and 24 is 888 (if significant). Feb 17, 2012 plus exactly 143 days is Saturday,Tammuz 17, 2012, July 7. 143 is 120 days plus 23 days (and the 23 will minus at the Return).
Feb 17, 2012 (end of the 1 Jewish yr warning) plus exactly 23 days (earth’s tilt number that will minus/likely taking 2 days/Hos 6:2-3) is precisely TAMMUZ 17, the FAST DAY of the 4th mth. How was I to know that the 4-mth count (“4 mths to the Harvest”) was to start from Shevat 24, the end of 4 JEWISH mths? It is only figurable NOW as this scenario is pondered. It now looks like TAMMUZ 17, July 7, could be the Rapture because that date fits so MANY significant points. Tammuz 17 is a SATURDAY as well, and the Millennium will deal again with SABBATH as the weekly Holy Day.
The next FAST DAY to notice in the 2520-day trib progression is TEVET 10 (10th Jewish mth, 10th day) of 2015. Tevet 10, 2015 is Dec 22 and it is a TUESDAY. SATURDAY, Tammuz 17, 2012 to SATURDAY, Tevet 7, 2015 is 1260 days, the day that the supernatural protection of the Jewish Remnant begins. When the a.c. is killed on Tevet 7, the Jews must run to Petra BEFORE the satanic ‘resurrection’ of the a.c. occurs on Tevet 10. Up to Tevet 10, the protection will be available (‘peace betw Jordan & Israel); but from Tevet 10 and onward, the protection will have to be supernatural. Some Jews will doubtless reach Petra by Tevet 7, others will be there by Tevet 10 (Tuesday). They will have 3 days to flee before the ‘risen’ a.c. tries to chase them down. If applicable, TEVET 10, Dec 22, 2015 is CAPRICORN 1, the sign of the goat/fish……sacrifice resulting in live believers. To be sure, the a.c. will desire to look like a great sacrifice with a hopeful ‘following’ as he ‘resurrects.’ Remember that the devil will MIMIC Christ, even the death & resurrection.
It is understandable that the a.c. would RISE on a TUESDAY as he ‘weds the unbelieving earth.’
Saturday, Tammuz 17, 2012 (presumed RAPTURE) to Saturday, Tevet 7, 2015 is 1260 days, the 1260 days of Elijah and Moses’ ministry. Then the second half of the trib, Saturday, Tevet 7, 2015 to Saturday June 1, 2019 is 1260 days as well (the count of the 1260 days of Petra Protection). The third 1260 to notice is the 1260 days of a.c. ‘keeping’ of the covenant w/ Israel (Signing, Sat, Tammuz 17, 2012 to Sat, Tevet 7, 2015).
Even more interesting (you ARE fascinated already, yes?)……is that the 2300 days of Temple Worship ends exactly at the RETURN Saturday, June 1, 2019. Av 9, 2012, is still the Divine Victory (Fast Day of the 5th mth) in the mts of Israel (Ezek 38-39, Isa 17:1). Exactly 7 solar mths (burying bodies/bldg 3rd Temple) past Av 9 (July 28, 2012) is Feb 28, 2013; then plus 2300 days reaches the RETURN date of June 1, 2019, which is also exactly 2520 days past Tammuz 17, 2012, the presumed Rapture.
If applicable, June 1, 2019 (RETURN) is also GEMINI 10 AND Iyyar 27 (Yom Yerushalaim/anniv June 6-7 Temple Mt Reclamation). Gemini is the 10th Mazzarot sign (‘twins walking in harmony/God & Israel’) and 10 is the number of completion.
MINUS 23 days reverts the earth’s date back to IYYAR 5, the 71st anniversary day (Jewish) of Israel’s Statehood (May 14, 1948 was Iyyar 5). Again, HOW was I to know that it was to be the end of 70 JEWISH yrs of Israel’s Statehood? Review again the Biblical events occurring after 70 yrs (see Rapture in the Air article).
Iyyar 5 (May 10, 2019) is still GEMINI 10 because earth’s position in the Mazzarot doesn’t change, but only 23 days of a ‘seasonal change’ on earth.
30 days of mourning later is CANCER 9 (11 x 9 = 99, spec), the day that Jesus enters the Temple with the Jewish Remnant from Petra (ISAIAH 63). That day is also SHAVUOT, SIVAN 6, 2019, PENTECOST, the birthday of the LAW and the birthday of the CHURCH…..a big reason for a mighty procession. Study the Facts About Shavuot in a previous letter. WITH the minus 23 days considered, that date is May 10, 2019 (Shavuot/Siv 6) and w/out the minus 23 considered, that day is July 1.
The END of the trib works out to be LEO 24……12 + 12 + 12. Leo is the 12th sign/LION of JUDAH in charge of the earth/45-day judg of the Nations finished) and 24 is double 12. 12 is the number of perfect government.
Thus you can see that the 4 FAST DAYS will have all been turned to joy, the 2300 days of Temple Desecration (Dan 8) end at the RETURN, and the three 1260’s fit perfectly.
Of course the 1290 days span mid trib to Entrance into Temple (Isa 63) and the 1335 span mid trib to the end of the trib. The 2550 days (as 2550 yrs 583 B.C. Destruc Temple to 1967) also span the Rapture date to Jesus’ Entrance into the Temple 1290 past mid trib.
All points seem to be exact with reference to the Fast Days, Jewish dates and all the trib spans, etc; and it’s amazing that anything still fits! I wanted to work at mentally and spiritually living in ‘oblivion’ to the subject, but my pen and paper seemed to have a mind of their own and I started in again. I hate to keep harping on the subject (just a BIT of a bother?); but if anything can still be figured, wouldn’t YOU do the same? The Church as a whole is probably discouraged at this point because SO many dates have failed and pondering/figuring the subject is downright distasteful at this point……but NOT to me! I think it is a trick of the Devil to foster indifference and hopelessness relative to the Rapture. The above dates just fit so well and you have to admit that the connections are quite significant (if you got this far in my letter!)…….Take care……J.H.
The 17th of Tammuz (July 7, 2012) was turned into joy as this is the day Yeshua was born (see “Signs in Heavens”).
Therefore, 2 of these days of sadness have turned to joy.
I do not expect a “rapture” until the end if the age (the 7th of 7 trumpets).
But, this 17th of Tammuz is a very very significant event date. I am expecting war to breakout in Middle East (Ezekiel 38-39). It will take 7 months to clean up with a Temple built just in time for ac to be revealed as “The Chosen One”. Just an uneducated guess.
Consider this when reading Matthew 24:19 – those who are pregnant = “enter into his mother’s womb a second time” (John 3:4) or new born Belivers” – nursing babies with milk = “I speak to you as to spiritual people but as carnal, as to babes in Christ” (1 Corinth 3:1).
Please – read the Word and pray without ceasing. Put on the Armor of Light and God.
Hey DJ,
Your are the first I have heard to speak of the 17th of Tammuz being the birthdate of Yahshua. I believe the same thing. Where did you get that from? Most wouldn’t touch that with a 10 foot pole, given the way the 17th of Tammuz was viewed by Israel. There are about 5 days that are days of mourning for the Jews that will be turned into times of rejoicing. Most believe His birth date was on the Feast of Tabernacles, which logically speaks to the Messiah “Tabernacling” with us, if you will. That on the outside seems appropriate. The thought that Messiah would be born on such a grevious day is pretty much reprehensible to most. But what most don’t understand, the 17th of Tammuz has been ominous for the “nation of Israel”. Israel was prophesied to reject and kill the Messiah and consequently ethnic Israel being sown among the nations (the diaspora) being tortured, killed, and basically hunted down like animals. But what was grevious to Israel brought joy to the nations. But now in these days, ethnic Israel is finding their Messiah and the 17th of Tammuz will become a day of celebration rather than a day of mourning. As I asked above, where did you get that from???
Be Blessed
Hi DJ & Al,
Though there are many different theories out there regarding the Birthdate of our Lord, (of which none of them unfortunately can be conclusively proven), you are both suggesting that Yeshua was “conceived” possibly on Sukkot in the month of Tishri.
However, isn’t there is more scriptural evidence to suggest that He was born on Sukkot?
Doesn’t scripture indicate that Yeshua’s cousin, John the Baptist, was conceived in mid Sivan, (our May or June), and born 40 weeks later on Nisan 15, the Passover? (Which in itself would be a fulfilment of prophecy, in respects to Isaiah 40, and Yeshua being crucified on the anniversary of that same date.)
John’s father, (Zacharias) was a Levite who was assigned to serve in the Temple during the course of “Abia” the 8th. course of the year. (see Luke 1:5., and 1 Chronicles 24:10.)
Since the cycle of service started on the first Shabbat of Nisan, (but both Passover and Shavu’ot (Pentecost), require for all priestly course to serve), the actual time that the 8th. course would serve, would then be the 10th. week of the year.
This then would place Zacharias’s service in the Temple as beginning on the second Sabbath of the month of Sivan, (our May/June).
Scripture states that John was conceived shortly after Zacharias’s time of service within the Temple, (Luke 1:23,24.)
Therefore this would mean that John was more than likely conceived in late Sivan, (after the 3rd. Sabbath of the month)and was then born around Passover or Nisan 15th.
Scripture states, that Yeshua was conceived 6 months after John the Baptist, (Luke 1:24-27, and 36.) Note that the “sixth month” refers to Elizabeth’s pregnancy and not the month of Elul, (Luke 1:36). If you add 6 months from late Sivan, you arrive at late Kislev, which then would be the conception date of Yeshua.
(Something else to take note of here, is that the first day of the Jewish festival of Chanukah, the Festival of Lights, is celebrated on the 25th. day of Kislev, and Yeshua is called the “light of the world”, (John 8:12., 9:5., 12:46.) )
From the 15th. day of Nisan, (which is John’s Birthday) if we add 6 months, we arrive at the 15th. day of the 7th. month of Tishri, (which is the 1st. day of the Feast of Sukkot or Tabernacles.) This would then have some Biblical significance, for if the day of His birth were to be the 1st. of Sukkot, that would mean that His circumcision would be on the 8th. day.
The 8th. day is Shemini Atzeret/Simchat Torah, which like the 1st. day, is a day of sacred assembly, (Leviticus 23:39.).
It is on this day that the Jews complete their annual cycle of Torah readings, and start all over again from Bereshit, (Genesis). Simchat Torah is considered to be a time of “fulfillment” of the Torah. For Yeshua to be circumcised on this day, it would be representative of Him in how He had come to “fulfill the Law and the Prophets”, (Matthew 5:17,18.).
Some circumstantial evidences that would also suggest that Yeshua was born on Sukkot, rather than on the 17th. of Tammuz would be, in John 1:14 it states that “The Word became flesh and “dwelt” with us.” The English word “dwelt” was translated from the transliterated Greek word “skēnoō” (Strong’s 4637) and its definition are as follows; “to fix one’s tabernacle, have one’s tabernacle, abide (or live) in a tabernacle (or tent), tabernacle. to dwell.” This would then correlate to the relevance to the “Mishkan” as well.
Also, the Feast of Sukkot would have been the most likely choice for King Herod to use to conduct the census in Jerusalem as well, (rather than that of Chanukah), because not only did he fear the Hasmoneans, but detested them also.
When Yeshua was born, the angel who appeared to the shepherd’s said, “Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.” (Luke 2:10.) Since Sukkot was a known as both a Festival of “Joy” and as a “Festival of Nations”, the angel would have actually been giving the shepherds the greeting for the Festival of Sukkot. Sukkot is the only Festival where the Nations are positively encouraged to participate, (Zechariah 14:16-19.)
After Yeshua returns and establishes His Millennial Kingdom on earth, scripture states that the only Festival that will be celebrated by the nations will be Sukkot. (Zechariah 14:16.) The possible reason for that would be because it will be a world wide commemoration to celebrate His birth. Simply because at this time each and every other Festival in itself will have been fulfilled. However the remembrance of His birth, may very well remain as a world wide celebration.
Nonetheless, one of the easiest ways to arrive at the correct date is to simply do the following equation. Scripture tells us that Yeshua was 30 years old when He started His ministry, (Luke 3:23.) and assuming, (as many Biblical scholars do), that He ministered for a period of 3 and 1/2 years, we can then count backwards 6 months from the date of His crucifixion, (during Passover in Nisan), then subtract 3 years from that date, and discover that His birthday would have been in Tishri, and that of the Festival of Sukkot, where He then “tabernacled” with man, as He will again do, at a future date and time.
Just my thoughts.
Praise be to Yeshua our Holy and Blessed Savior, and KING of kings.
Amen.
DJ,
Never mind about my question about the 17th of
Tammuz, I found your answer where you said it would be.
The “Signs in the Heavens” gives
us the date of His birth. Please read that post within Heaven Awaits and you will “see”.
Must given credit to Bethlehem Star video (see link on right) and Hebrew4Christians.com. Those resources helped put the pieces together.
The astronomy software Stellarium is applied, but there is a flaw with the software calendar.
The calendar changes from BC to AD with a 0 date in between. That is not accurate. So, what is presented as 0 year should be 1BC and the count in BC years begins from there. The date of conception occurred during 3 BC.
The signs in the heavens tells us He was conceived Feasts of Tabernacles (Sept 3 BC) and born 9 months later – 17th of
Tammuz.
After reading Signs in the Heavens”, please watch Danielstimeline. There is a link at the right of this page for this informative presentation made in 2006.
The Lord seems to have you on a search for Truth.
So – now consider those pregnant in the last days (new born Christians) and those nursing such baby Christians (Matthew 24:19).
Then, consider Hebrews 5:11-14
The meat is found in preparing with the Armor of Light and Armor of God. Why? There is going to be a spiritual battle as great as the physical (Revelation). Mature Christians will be better “suited” for what is coming.
You see, the true believers overcome him (ac) by the Blood of the Lamb and our testimony. And, expect a separation of fat (milk diet) and lean (solid food) sheep to occur during the coming months/years.
While I’m typing – the 9th of Av (July 28) is a very significant date in Hebrew history. The Jerusalem temple was destroyed twice on that date. Hundreds of years apart and both occurred on the same Hebrew calendar day! No coincidence.
Seems to be an appropriate date to crush a few enemies and flatten Damascus. It takes 7 months to clean up and that is just in time for he who rides the “pale” horse (Rev 6) to fulfill Matthew 24:15.
By the way, those responsible for Temple worship in Jerusalem, they have the Arc of the Covenant and all the Temple instruments and materials ready for the appropriate time. That time will be evident to all very soon.
After reading so many varied replies over the past couple of days, it seems best to add some clarifiction.
There is no Pre-Trib (7 years of Tribulation) because the 7 year period started October 9, 2009 (Feasts of Tabernacles), the signs in the heavens recorded in Rev 12 were (are with astonomy software) visable on Sept 29, 2011, the red horse is running (Arab Spring), the black house seems to be turning for the stretch run to the finish line and there is a chip ready for the body – in order to buy it sell.
What more signs do we need?
Well, the big one (Matthew 24:15) will get our collective attention. Then the cry goes forth -“The Lord’s return is
near!”
Near as in 3.5 Hebrew calendar years.
Blessings
Hi DJ,
Thanks for your response.
Though I have watched both “The Bethlehem Star” and “Daniels Timeline” before, if we are within “end times” right now, (which it is my opinion that we are), we all must be willing to re-evaluate some of our preconceived ideologies, so as you request, I will watch them again with an open mind.
From what I was lead to understand within the visions that I had, the Word and Scripture itself, contains an infinite amount of information. How a solitary verse itself can not only have relevance to the context of the passage that it is contained in, but that it can also be utilized to substantiate or provide further information as evidentiary support for what appears to be a completely different scenario.
This is evident and done many times within the New Testament, where either Yeshua or the Apostles would pull a verse from the Tanakh, which within its original context did not appear to be relevant, and utilize it as evidence to support Yeshua’s statement, or the Apostles newly understood claim.
The reason for this became obvious to me a couple of months back. The Holy Spirit inspired all of Scripture to be written this way with intention.
satan has access to the Word, but obviously he doesn’t fully comprehend it. If he did, he certainly wouldn’t have entered Judas’s heart to betray Yeshua and start the ball rolling to have Him crucified.
This is also why there is the necessity to be indwelt by the Holy Spirit to understand Scripture, for only He knows how to decipher it correctly.
The Word is definitely “truth” as it stands and as read, however there is so much more contained within it that it is virtually impossible for us to fully comprehend, for there is duplicity and multiplicity contained everywhere. However, if we are in “end times”, then as Daniel 12: 4. states, “knowledge should be increased”, and the Holy Spirit will be revealing new information, at an ever increasing rate to many shortly.
I personally disagree with your comment that there is no pre-tribulation gathering still though. During my experience I was lead to go straight from Revelation 4:1. directly to Revelation 10:1. with the understanding that they were intimately connected.
Time will tell.
The LORD our God is Sovereign and the desires of His heart will be fulfilled. All we have to do is remain faithful and trust in Him until whatever time the end of this “Age of Grace” concludes.
Be Blessed.
Praise Yeshua our Holy and Precious Savior. Our KING of kings and LORD of lords.
Amen.
a.
Possible Rapture, SUNDAY, July 15, Tammuz 25
Check out the latest speculative scenario and ponder these high points:
Yom Kippur 2011 (Oct 8) plus 280 days (Jewish mths count) = Tammuz 25, 2012, Rapture. This 280-day span is likely the pre-trib spiritual ‘gestation’ of the Church. Know that 280 plus 75 days (30+45 post Return days) = 355, one Jewish year. By the way, the three letters, SHEEN, NUN, HEH (spelling of ‘shana’/year in Hebrew) equal 355…..interesting.
So too Yom Kippur 2018 plus 280 days = Tammuz 25, 2019/END of TRIB, the likely post-Return spiritual ‘gestation’ period of the Remnant. Thus the entire trib (Rapture to end of the 1335 from mid trib) with the -23-day loss considered is exactly 7 Jewish years (Tam 25 to Tam 25).
Know that Jesus had a 280-day gestation period as well (40 wks/Tevet 1, 8th day of 8th Feast, to Tishrei 15) and the Church is His Body and the Remnant will also be His Body 7 yrs from now, both needing a ‘gestation’ period.
Attention can now be given to KISLEV 24 of Haggai 2. 1260 days past the Rapture is Sunday, Dec 27, 2015, the day the a.c. satanically ‘rises.’ This is also the day that he successfully destroys the 2 witnesses (via his newly-acquired satanic power). On this day the world will send gifts to one another in celebration of their demise (i.e. there will STILL be something on earth for people to ‘rejoice’ over; thus the GREAT TRIB will NOT have begun yet in all of its fury; but 3+ days later they RISE/& Raptured (Dec 30) and there will be nothing left on earth that warrants joy in any way, shape or form. Dec 30 (Tevet 18) minus the projected 23-day loss is KISLEV 24. When the earth is straight, the date of Dec 30, 2015 will be (in retrospect) as it would have been 23 days earlier, that of KISLEV 24, 2015. Thus the Haggai 2 verses referring to the extreme tumult of Kislev 24 will occur via that perspective.
Of equal interest is the fact that the Jerem 51:46 1-yr warning (360 days/ Jan 29, 2011 Temple Mt UFO to Jan 24, 2012) plus exactly 150 days (as Noah story) plus another 23 (that will minus at the Return) is SUNDAY, TAMMUZ 25, July 15, presumed Rapture. 173 days (150+23)
from Jan 24, 2012 (end of the 1-yr warning) is this coming Sunday, July 15. Noah & family WAITED 150 days (earth unlivable) til their exit from the Ark.
As per the Mazzarot, this Sunday, July 15 is CANCER 24, the 11th sign/judg and the 24th day = 888/Jesus’ protection. There are verses of God’s protection of His own in His hand, “….no one can snatch them from My hand.” The crab has the praesapea/eggs inside, as per the ‘beehive,’ nebulous cluster (the Church) in the sign of Cancer. The 7-yr Pact SIGNING will likely be THURSDAY, CANCER 21 (11/777 if applic), 3 days before the Sunday Rapture.
The Return is Thurs, June 6, 2019 (1260 past mid trib) and June 6 is GEMINI 15 (10th sign/the twins/God & Israel ‘walking’ evenly hand in hand as the Jews call Jesus back to earth). 75 more days (30 + 45) takes the Mazzarot to its very first day of the entire cycle, VIRGO 1, the first sign, a likely day for the trib to be completed and the Millennium to legally begin with attention to the Mazzarot cycle; i.e. Virgo 1 is the first day of the Millennial 360-day Mazzarot cycle. Virgo 1 will be Aug 1 & Av 1, during the Millennium.
The Return plus 30 days of mourning is CANCER 15, the sign of the judg (beginning of the 45-day judg of the Nations), & balanced/exact middle of the sign. This is the day that Jesus walks with His Remnant (His protected OWN/’eggs’ of the praseapea)/Isaiah 63/from Petra. Then 45 days later is VIRGO 1, end of the 45 days of Judgment of the Nations. The Nations will be judged according to their treatment of Jews & Israel.
Thirteen days past the Rapture is July 28, AV 9, 2012, the Divine Victory in the mts of Israel (hail, quake, huge carnage, etc/Ezek 38-39) followed by 7 perfect 30-day mths (210 days) of burying bodies & bldg 3rd Temple in Jerusalem. The END of the TRIB at Tammuz 25 is also JULY 28, 2019, matching the July 28, 2012 Victory (Av 9). Ezek 39:9 speaks of 7 yrs fuel use of Russian weaponry and July 28, 2012 to July 28, 2019 is 7 yrs.
After the 7 mths of burying bodies, beginning Av 9-10, the date is FEB 23, 2013, when Temple Worship begins and lasts exactly 2300 days (+3 uncounted mid trib days)/Dan 8…..ending at the Great Temple Entrance of Isa 63, June 13, 2019 (30 days past May 14). The earth is straight, the 30 days of mourning will be over and the horrific 45-day judgment of the Nations will begin.
The RETURN at June 6, 2019 minus 23 days tilt loss is MAY 14, the 1st day of the 71st anniversary of Statehood. May 14 is also a TUESDAY (3rd day/earth straight /one meaning of Hosea 6:2-3). The earth’s change of position (to straight) is reviewed in Isa 13:13, 24:1,19,20 AND the earth must revert back to a 360-day, pre-flood year.
As for the Zech 8 four Fast Days to be turned to joy, Yom Kip/Tish 10 was already turned to joy when the veil tore (at the Cross). Thur, Dec 24, 2015 (1260 past the likely Thurs July 12 signing) is when the a.c. breaks the signed covenant/Tevet 12, which still counts as TEVET 10 (fast day) because of the previous Sunday holding the Tevet 10 count (counts are only determined on SUNDAYS). Also Av 9 minus the tilt loss is TAMMUZ 17, taking care of that fast day; and of course, AV 9 will be the great mountain Victory in Israel, most serious Fast Day to joy….thus all 4 Fast days will have been turned to joy.
As you can see, the MAIN END DATE of the trib (as per the Pyramid timeline as well) is YOM KIPPUR 2018…..plus the 280-day spiritual gestation period of the Remnant reaches the end of the trib, July 28, 2019, Tammuz 25. In other words, there is a 280-day period on EACH side of the trib….one for the Church & one for His Remnant……both HIS BODY.
Yom Kippur is when a 50-yr Jubilee span must begin; and when the 17 ‘uncounted’ yrs are reviewed, one sees that Yom Kippur 2018 is really Yom Kippur 2001, beginning of the 121st Jubilee. God promised fallen man 120 yrs (Jubilees)/6,000 FULL yrs…..and He will not pass that mark because His Word is sacred.
There is still SO much more that holds…..but, alas, I’ve offered so many ‘false’ dates (remember the ‘CLARIFICATION’ Daniel spoke of) that I’m sure your interest has waned beyond the chance to retrieve. But, I just thought I’d share these few points since the spans fit so well and there is still ample harmony in the scenario. Know that it was always on a SUNDAY when the most significant events happened for the Christian (Palm Sun, Resurrection Sunday, Pentecost Sunday….and of course CREATION and the 8th Day Count of Creation……etc.
All is exact: 2520, the three 1260’s, 1290, 1335, 7 mths burying, 7 yrs fuel use, 7 exact yrs Av 9 to end of trib, all the Fast Days turned to joy, pre-Rapture pattern of the 150 days (as Noah in Ark) plus the 23 to the Rapture, the 2 gestation periods…..etc…..etc. What else is there? If you charted it all, you could see it more clearly. Anyway, for what it’s worth, look to Tammuz 25, Sunday…………J.H.
Jan,
Wow, you have been quite a busy bee when it comes to the Jewish calendar.
Your post above (for July 7th) was so highly detailed and thought out I was certain it must be correct. I gave away all the food in my fridge so it wouldn’t spoil and patiently awaited the rapture last Saturday.
Zip, zilch, Nada.
And everything fit together so perfectly! How could it possibly fail? Bummer.
But thank God you have a new set of equally complicated calculations which are so cool they gave me a brain freeze.
Once again, so many pieces fit together so perfectly, how can it possibly fail? So I’m not restocking my fridge till next Monday, If necessary.
Of course you realize you only get two chances at this sort of thing. Remember the pastor who claimed on TV that Christ would return last April? The media covered his story and then when it didn’t happen and he moved it to September they gave him the benefit of the doubt and covered the redo.
But after that was a bust, everyone just agreed he was just another nut-job and dropped him like a cold potato.
So here’s to possibility! We’ll be looking forward to the weekend and hoping you are right.
If not, I guess it’s back to the drawing board for you, but your credibility might be stretched a bit thin by then.
Good luck and God bless.
See you in the clouds…????
🙂
James,
As usual; so cruel, but so true! 🙂
When one circumvents simple self evident truths as spoken by Jesus and Paul, et al, then ingenious invention is necessary in order to come up with a plausible alternative view.
Then those who have allowed themselves to be enticed into believing that this sophisticated and convoluted approach to understanding the simplicity of God’s Word is necessary, have done exactly what the author of deception has written for them.
As if the average person, particularly in these times of survival, can afford the time and have the required presence of mind to study and assimilate these long drawn out and protracted theses(thesis) in order to understand the Word of God.
God desires that all come to the knowledge of the truth and be saved; and He communicates this through His Word, and He does not confound! If we come to Him as small children as He commanded; then He will make us as wise as serpents (and as gentle as doves), then we will be protected from the onslaught of this end times deception, or indeed any deception.
Always desire the truth and nothing but the truth, because the one who lied from the beginning possesses a capacity for deception and a resolve to deceive, beyond our understanding!
But God will protect our minds and hearts, if our resolve is to worship Him in spirit and in truth.
The Word of God is simple…beware of those who confound it!
Blessings to all!… We’ll meet again, do know where, don’t know when, but I know we’ll meet again some sunny day!……………..:)
Richard.
Hi Richard,
Let me see if I understand you correctly above?
Are you saying that those that believe that there is a significant amount of scriptural evidence that would suggest that a pre-tribulation rapture is plausible, are simply misguided and deceived? That they have merely misconstrued the simple, self evident truths as spoken by Yeshua and Paul?
If so, I would appreciate it if you could find the time to express what it is that you believe, and provide the scripture which you perceive as being supportive for that belief. In the past, the onus of proof appears to be always placed upon the shoulders of those that do believe that a pre-tribulation gathering of believers will take place. I personally, would appreciate having the opportunity to address the topic from a position of rebuttal for a change.
Would you be kind enough to provide your thoughts in the future?
Thanks.
Praise be to Yeshua our Holy and Precious Savior. Our KING of kings and LORD of lords.
Amen.
Well said Richard,
My point all along has been that If one is clever, you can use scripture to prove just about anything, as crazy as it might be. But I believe as most scientists and engineers do, simpler is better. In most cases, the simplest explanation is the correct one.
Much of prophecy should be obvious to most casual observer. God is not the author of confusion and it should not take a Phd in bible studies to figure out that some prophecy has already been fulfilled when scripture and history match perfectly. Christians can’t understand how Jews can still deny that Jesus was their messiah, yet they can’t match recorded history with the bible themselves.
I think it may be due to the current technological generation. Just look at popular movies today. Compared to early films, the plots are all so complicated and intricate with all sorts of hidden plot twists and turns. The DaVinci Code purports that Jesus fathered a child with Mary Magdalen and offered all sorts of apparent “truths” to prove the theory.
So many modern Christians tend to look more deeply into the scriptures to come up with alternate interpretations in a vain attempt to come up with a more creative story line, like the author of The DaVinci Code and Left Behind have done.
As for the rapture theory, I used to be a fan because the scriptures seemed to indicate it – when you pull out just those you want. But when I went back and read the entire chapters that the verses were extracted from, I realized they all referred to the same event – the return of Jesus at the last trump. Nowhere I could I find a verse declaring that the church would be raptured prior to the second coming. Note that there is no chapter in any book that mentions two separate resurrections at two different times. Proponents of the rapture theory simply declare that this one refers to the rapture and that one refers to the second coming by the way they are worded, pulling out concordances and greek dictionaries etc to make their point. But it is all smoke and mirrors. It is all do by inferences and sleight of hand.
And it’s hard to argue with these people because when you quote a simple scripture they insist on embellishing it with additional meanings that are both unnecessary and incorrect.
So in regards to a possible rapture this coming Sunday, I respect the knowledge and work it took to crunch all the numbers, but the computations are built on a base of sand. Both the 7-year tribulation and the rapture are un-biblical, so the calculations are worthless no matter how well they appear to fit together.
Actually, the more I look at these calculations, the more like double-talk they appear. Adding 23 days to them due to the 23 degree tilt of the earth’s axis. Really? Give me a break. Is this guy really Dan Brown? It just proves my point that anything can be proved If you are clever enough.
Well, what do expect. It is the end-times and false prophets abound. But at least Jan brought up one correct point – that Sabbath will return to the seventh day when the millennium comes. In fact, its improper observance will be the mark of the beast, not that anyone today will recognize it.
So let’s just wait till Sunday and see what happens.
To Jan: I’ll see you in the clouds on Sunday.
To everyone else: I’ll see you Monday.
Bless.
James,
If your “KISS” theory were correct, and “much of prophecy should be obvious to most casual observers”, then what was satan’s excuse for pulling the biggest blunder since the Creation? If all of what you claim above were true, simply explain that.
If you haven’t read my reply to DJ that I made today, I will post a portion of it here specifically for you.
From what I was lead to understand within the visions that I had, the Word and Scripture itself, contains an infinite amount of information. How a solitary verse itself can not only have relevance to the context of the passage that it is contained in, but that it can also be utilized to substantiate or provide further information as evidentiary support for what appears to be a completely different scenario.
This is evident and done many times within the New Testament, where either Yeshua or the Apostles would pull a verse from the Tanakh, which within its original context did not appear to be relevant, and utilize it as evidence to support Yeshua’s statement, or the Apostles newly understood claim.
The reason for this became obvious to me a couple of months back. The Holy Spirit inspired all of Scripture to be written this way with intention.
satan has access to the Word, but obviously he doesn’t fully comprehend it. If he did, he certainly wouldn’t have entered Judas’s heart to betray Yeshua and start the ball rolling to have Him crucified.
This is also why there is the necessity to be indwelt by the Holy Spirit to understand Scripture, for only He knows how to decipher it correctly.
The Word is definitely “truth” as it stands and as read, however there is so much more contained within it that it is virtually impossible for us to fully comprehend, for there is duplicity and multiplicity contained everywhere. However, if we are in “end times”, then as Daniel 12: 4. states, “knowledge should be increased”, and the Holy Spirit will be revealing new information, at an ever increasing rate to many shortly.
(Except of course to those that through their own human intellect, (have already in their mind), all of the answers.)
Time will tell.
The LORD our God is Sovereign and the desires of His heart will be fulfilled. All we have to do is remain faithful and trust in Him until whatever time the end of this “Age of Grace” concludes.
Be Blessed.
Praise Yeshua our Holy and Precious Savior. Our KING of kings and LORD of lords.
Amen.
a.
So a,
This means you are buying into the rapture happening tomorrow?
Well If we never hear from you again, we will know what happened.
Good luck.
(See you Monday)
Ummm???
Lets see here James, you claim that prophecy and the Word of God should be obvious to the casual observer, yet at the same time you have difficulty in comprehending what was articulated above?
To answer that of your question…… “No”!
And just to clarify that for you, I mean for “No” there to be understood in the negative sense, I do not believe that, nor does the above suggest in the slightest that I am buying into the rapture happening tomorrow. (Could it? Well all of the Apostles believed that the time was short and that the return of the Lord could happen at any time, so if it did, I would rejoice.) But I reiterate, “No” the above does not suggest that I am buying into that happening tomorrow.
How you were somehow able to derive that theory from the above however, explains quite a lot.
The above is referring to the complexity of Scripture and as to why it was written that way.
To me, THAT should have been obvious to most any casual observer?
Funny that you didn’t bother to address the question that was posed above, (again like always), and chose instead to exit stage left, by utilizing an obvious, (and rather pedestrian), deflection tactic.
Very elementary of you.
a.
In Texas, some would call James a south end of a north bound horse.
….. 🙂
Neeeeeh.
James
Only cloud you will have contact with is Icloud if you have an Istone/Iphone.
🙂
Adam,
You are funny…
NOT!
🙂
BTW James,
Do you actually understand as to why all of the Apostles believed that the time was short and Yeshua’s imminent return was at hand?
That would be because much of what was prophesised indeed was history. Jeremiah prophesising what had occurred within Daniels time, Daniel prophesising Alexander the Great and the 4 Kingdoms which were eventually over taken by Rome, and the subsequent destruction of the Temple etc. etc.
(So I will grant you one correct assumption in what you write above.)
However, the Tanakh is cyclical.
Everything happens over and over again. Therefore the Apostles were unaware, (that though everything appeared to be over), that there was another cycle that was yet to be fulfilled. (Mark 13:32.)
Consequently then, (and logically), since no more additional prophecy had been provided, the prophecy that was initially provided is still applicable and valid in understanding future events which are yet to take place.
The Book of Revelation provides more detail as to these events, and correlates exactly, (being the Word of God), to what was prophesised by the prophets in the Tanakh.
Apparently though, you haven’t been able to discern this.
Nonetheless, maybe you will address the question that I posed above earlier today instead of commenting on any of this.
Remember I said, “If your “KISS” theory were correct, and “much of prophecy should be obvious to most casual observers”, then what was satan’s excuse for pulling the biggest blunder since the Creation?
If all of what you claim were true, simply explain that.”
a.
a,
Sorry my sarcasm was lost on you. I don’t think anyone really believes the rapture will happen tomorrow. If you believe, as many do, that the rapture will occur just prior to the Antichrist brokering a peace plan for Israel and then becomes the head of the New World Order, then it is way too early. Funny that the apostles didn’t realize that fact. They were pretty bad at understanding prophecy as it turns out, especially Paul who thought for sure Christ would be back in his lifetime.
That’s not unusual. Daniel had no clue as to what he was writing, and admitted it.
You know what I wonder? When the apostles asked Jesus, “what will be the signs of your coming?” He told them of wars, pestilence and earthquakes – common stuff, not even biblical. So why did He fail to mention the fact that millions of Christians and all dead in Christ would be raptured 7 years before His coming? Wouldn’t that be the clue to end all clues? And why did he never say He would be coming twice more? He always referred to his coming, not comings. And why did He fail to tell the disciples, after His resurrection, that God moved the Sabbath to Sunday? Why did He make it so difficult to figure this stuff out? He made the bible too confusing and left too much to the imagination.
Sorry, but I tend to look to the simplest explanation. One return. Period. If there was an early resurrection, then another at His final coming (those who died in the tribulation for Christ), then another before the Great White Throne Judgement, that would make three, and the Book of Revelation makes it clear that there are only two resurrections, not three. But I’m sure you must have some convoluted way of explaining this.
Well at least there is some good news about the rapture. Other than a few people like Jan who have calculated an exact date for the rapture, most will not expect it until several other events occur first. Therefore, If those events fail to materialize, no-one will ever believe the rapture is imminent. So in that respect you and I will be in agreement for a long time.
Longer than you think. 🙂
James,
I would have to say that 99.9%, (if not 100%), of what is received from God in visions is not understood by the recipient.
This would include the Prophets of old, the Apostles, or people like myself in this era. They are either explained later by an angel, or through the Holy Spirit as you meditate upon them in seeking their truth.
Above you say, (in respects to Yeshua answering His disciples question regarding the signs of His coming) , “So why did He fail to mention the fact that millions of Christians and all dead in Christ would be raptured 7 years before His coming? Wouldn’t that be the clue to end all clues?”
Well we could also ask, “Why wasn’t Moses told the full sequence of events as well, so he would have been able to tell the whole story? This would have eliminated the need for every other Prophet, and when Yeshua came in the flesh, the Jews of the day would have realized that He was their Messiah.”
Or we could also ask, “Why, (since things didn’t transpire like the above), didn’t Yeshua explain to all the Apostles then at that time, the detailed account of what was later revealed to John in Revelation?”
Obviously the answer for this is, that this is not the way that God the Father works. If everything were “black and white” there wouldn’t be the aspect of “faith”. God chose, (and you can take that up with Him if you actually see Him), to reveal this “mystery” in His timing to Paul when he was “caught up” to heaven. (2 Corinthians 12:1-4., and 2 Peter 3: 15,16.)
Throughout the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, information is revealed in its season. (Ecclesiastes 3:1.)
The Apostles weren’t “pretty bad” as you say in understanding prophecy, they were just unaware that another “cycle” of repetition was yet to be fulfilled.
In regards to your apparent inability to comprehend scripture, where you say, “that the Book of Revelation makes it clear that there are only two resurrections” only you can take responsibility for that. (Perhaps your pride, ego and sarcasm, is not the humble and contrite spirit that is conducive to the Holy Spirit in regards to revelation?) But if what you say and believe is true, well then the two resurrections, (that you say are clearly stated), have already occurred.
Or have you forgotten to take into account Matthew 27: 52,53.?
Just as Revelation 2:11., 20:6., 20:14., and 21:8., all refer to a second death, the terminology “first resurrection” is comprised of the numerous resurrections,(which consist of 6 in total, with Yeshua being the “firstfruits” and those “saints” of Matthew 27), leaving 4 remaining, the Church, the 144,000, the Tribulation Saints, and the Two Witnesses that are yet to occur. All of these are categorized and fall under the banner of “first resurrection, (Revelation 20: 5,6.).
Then there will be the “2nd. and last resurrection” that coincides with the “second death” at the Great White Throne judgement for those that will be judged from the Book of Life. (Revelation 20:11-15.)
Whether you and others are unable to perceive and distinguish between verses that record a specific “pre-tribulation gathering” and that of a true “second coming” of our Lord Yeshua or not, makes no difference to me. I am not the Judge of mans heart that decides who will be accounted worthy or not. Though this particular thought has crossed my mind, “What if only those that have faith in this scripture, are the only ones that are judged worthy?”
That thought isn’t any wackier than your ideology regarding Sunday worship as having a bearing on ones Salvation. lol.
Any way’s, again, (as always), you failed to answer a direct question that had been posed to you. Why is that James?
You obviously enjoy expounding on your point of view, (though rarely providing scripture to support it), but why do you never respond to direct question?
For the third time now, “If your “KISS” theory were correct, and “much of prophecy should be obvious to most casual observers”, then what was satan’s excuse for pulling the biggest blunder since the Creation? If all of what you claim were true, simply explain that.”
Waiting with bated breath.
Praise be to Yeshua our Holy and Precious Savior, through His Shed Blood we have our Hope.
Amen.
a.
Appendix to the above as well,
You ask, “So why did He fail to mention the fact that millions of Christians and all dead in Christ would be raptured 7 years before His coming? Wouldn’t that be the clue to end all clues?”
“Yes”, it would be, and it is for that very reason that scripture regarding “the gathering” is also subtle and ambiguous as well.
This is done with purpose and intention, for there is a specific reason for this.
Praise be to Yeshua the Holy and Worthy Lamb.
Amen.
Okay,
Here is something for all of those to consider, that don’t believe that a pre-tribulation “gathering of the true and faithful Assembly” won’t take place.
Yeshua say’s regarding His coming in Matthew 24:36., “But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.”
Well He simply can’t be speaking about His second coming to establish His Millennial Kingdom here, because of what is prophesised in Daniel.
In Daniel we are given a time frame.
From Daniel 9:27. we know that “the abomination that causes desolation” will occur in the “middle” of the 70th. week.
”And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.”
In Daniel 12:11,12 even more detail regarding time is provided as to when Yeshua’s Glorious Second Coming will be, (with all of His saints, 1 Thess. 3:13.).
“And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.”
In Revelation 12:6., John was also provided with time frame.
”And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.” (I believe that the wilderness is recorded in Isaiah 65:10. and Hosea 2:15.)
This 1,260 days is equivalent to 42 months (considering an ancient Hebrew month to be 30 days), and also to 3½ years, (or “time, times and half a time” which equals “a year, two years and a half a year”), and happens during the latter half of the final 7 years as stated by Yeshua in Mathew 24:15., were He continues with the warning to flee. (1,260 days (Revelation 11:3, 12:6), 42 months (Revelation 11:2), and 3½ years equals “time, times and half a time” (Daniel 7:25, 12:7; Revelation 12:14).
Though there is the subject of what the 30 days and 45 days may consist of, one does not need a Doctorate in Mathematics to be able to count 1335 days from the date that the “abomination of desolation” is set up, to understand that when that expires, Yeshua will return to establish His millennial Kingdom.
So what could Yeshua possibly be referring to within Matthew 24:36?
He continues in verse 37 through 39;
“But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.”
The above would suggest that everything is pretty “la-dee-da” doesn’t it? Life is pretty normal as normal goes, rather than being subjected to the oppression of the beast, the false prophet, of satan, the wrath of God, and the Tribulation.
Then He says in verse 40 and 41,
“Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.”
Verse 42 says, “Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.” ???
Well sure we do Lord, we know that you will come 1335 days after “the abomination of desolation” is set up.
And verses 43 to 51 obviously can’t be compared to the tribulation or of Gods wrath. Then Yeshua goes directly into the parable of the Ten Virgins, the selection process, and the Kingdom of Heaven, rather than His kingdom on earth.
So do you still think that Matthew 24:36., is referring to Yeshua’s Second Coming? Or does Luke 21:36., have significantly more meaning now?
“Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.”
Just my thoughts.
Praise be to Yeshua the Worthy Lamb. Our Precious and Glorious Savior. Amen.
a,
You keep trying to convince me that Mat24 refers to an early rapture by pulling out various verses.
But you neglect the following verses:
Mat 24:21
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Mat 24:22
And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.
Mat 24:29
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30
And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
So Mat 24 is clearly about the second coming, not a secret rapture. And it clearly occurs AFTER the tribulation.
So where are the verses that talk about a previous return?
This is typical of all the verses people use to prove an early rapture. If you ignore the totality of the chapter you can make certain assumptions that seem to make your point. I have checked out every single so-called “proof” of the rapture and they all have the same fatal flaw. Too bad since I used to believe the theory and I only reluctantly had to let go of it.
So now you’re up to six resurrections! I suppose If you wanted to you could assume that every mention of Jesus’ return refers to a separate coming and separate resurrections. Maybe dozens of them.
Now you say that when Jesus described the first resurrection he was referring to all the “previous resurrections” but:
Rev 20:4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.
He is referring to the tribulation here, not to prior events. You admit they all take place at separate times and therefore are separate, consecutive events. So you are saying that Jesus doesn’t know how to count? Or maybe He forgot the others? Or maybe like the male child being 144,000 adults, the word “first“ really means something else. Pull out your lexicons and dictionaries and you can easily explain this one away too.
Sorry, but I’m going to keep it simple, stupid. I’ve been teaching this principle to my photography students for many years and I tend to apply it to most other things as well. But I’m not alone. Very few churches teach that the commandments are void. Our founding fathers believed in them as well. And Jesus said, “If you love me, keep my commandments.”
So the question o=is, “Do YOU love Jesus?”
Well of course Matthew 24: 29-31., is describing Yeshua’s Second Coming. (Good for you, clap-clap).
However as I stated above, the “time frame” as to how long the Tribulation will last, to the point of the exact number of days being expressed after the “abomination of desolation” is set up are provided within scripture and prophecy in Daniel.
Once one were to see this “abomination of desolation” all they would have to do is count down 1335 days.
So how can that knowledge correlate somehow with Matthew 24:36.?
“But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.”
Ya know, you stick with what you believe. I am weary of trying to get you to understand things that only the Holy Spirit can reveal to someone.
I leave the rest up to God the Father for those that truly seek Him to find the truth, rather than listen to you.
You are one stiffnecked dude James.
That of course, is just my opinion, because no one else has ever debated theology in a contrary fashion with you before, have they?
I guess that it is just me. lol.
I won’t even bother to dignify your last question by providing you with an answer.
And don’t be surprised if down the road you happen to hear the words, “οὐκ οἶδα ὑμᾶς”.
a.
I think the abomination occurs 30 days before the 42 months. hence 1290 days, last chapter of daniel
That is entirely possibly Marianne,
There isn’t enough information provided to make a conclusive determination regarding that.
However, the aspect of time frame is given in scripture within Daniel 12:11,12. as well as many other verses regarding end times.
“And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.”
And with that being so specific, down to the day……. how can what Yeshua says in Matthew 24:36., be referring to same event?
“But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.”
One event has a specific 7 year time frame with a count down date of days, from when the abomination of desolation is set up, whereas the other could apparently happen at any time indiscriminately as to the day that the God the Father chooses.
One event is established in regards to time, whereas in the other, Yeshua showing up completely unexpected, could then show up, “as a thief in the night”.
They can’t be talking about the same event, or coming.
Praise Yeshua our Precious and Glorious Savior.
Amen.
hi alienated
Jesus did give us a clue about the hour….even if it is not the exact hour.
notice he mentioned “night.” and then we have to consider time zones.
there are 24 of them.
so there is no way one hour could be assigned.
There is also somewhere in my bible a passage about the day of the Lord, where it mentions the Lord shows up “in the evening.” I would assume this is Jerusalem time.
I will have to search for it. I have it marked, but I cannot remember what book it is in.
so that is another clue.
I found it!
Zech 14:7
But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, [that] at evening time it shall be light.
a,
Who on earth taught you to read?
You just said that Mat24 was about the second coming. This is the SUBJECT of the discourse.
The subject therefore is the day of His second coming.
And on this subject Jesus notes:
Mat 24:36
But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Jesus is still talking about the day of His return. He did not change the subject of the text.
You want me to assume that he switched to a new topic – the rapture – without telling the apostles about it? Ask any English teacher, or writer – you just can’t make such assumptions. It is simply ludicrous.
And the statement is true. To this day no-one knows the day and the hour. Even when the signs are here – eg, when the two witnesses appear – and we know that the coming will be 3-1/2 years later, and on the feast of trumpets (so we actually kind of know the day, just not the year, but the text says the “day AND the hour” so in reality, even If we knew the day, we won’t know the hour, so the verse will hold true right until the end.
Secondly, I don’t think you fully understand what Jesus was trying to say to the disciples. For example, :
Mat 24:38
For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
Mat 24:39
And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Noah knew when the flood would come, just not the unrighteous and unprepared. The same will be true in the end time. The elect who study the Word will be prepared, but for everyone else it will be a surprise.
Mat 24:42
Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. (Note – the HOUR)
Mat 24:43
But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
Mat 24:44
Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
Jesus is telling his disciples that they (we) need to be prepared – study the scriptures so we will be ready for His return, and those who don’t will be unaware that He is about to return.
Mat 24:50
The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for [him], and in an hour that he is not aware of,
Mat 24:51
And shall cut him asunder, and appoint [him] his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Do you get this? Those who do not look for Christ’s return will be punished. God wants His elect to know when He will be coming. And as you said, for those who study the scripture, it will be obvious the day of His return. (Just not the hour).
So pulling Mat25:36 out of context isn’t going to wash with me. I told you I was a rapturist for many years and I have torn apart all of the supposed proof of the rapture. Not one verse can be verified. It is all based on invalid assumptions, and you know what they say when you ASSume things.
And by the way, I’ve had these same discussions with many other people and no one has been able to convince me that the rapture is real, or the New World Order, One-World religion or any of the other fabrications from the “Left Behind” movies.
And I will never try to tell people that God is fine with us breaking His commandments. Especially the one He starts with the word “Remember.”
Do so at your own risk.
This will be my last response to you for awhile James.
Though the following is rhetorical, tell me do you believe in all of Scripture as being the Holy Word of God, or just bits and pieces of your own choosing?
Romans 5:9.
“Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.”
1 Thessalonians 1:10.
“And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.”
1 Thessalonians 5:9.
“For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,”
Now, what sense does any of the above make, if the true Assembly of the faithful church, has to wait for a resurrection at the end of the 7 year tribulation?
None. notta, zip, squat!
Therefore logically, and for Gods Word to be true, something must occur “prior” to the wrath of God and of the Lamb that is doled out during the tribulation.
Nuff said.
Bye for now.
a,
Sorry, I thought you were more familiar with the Book of Revelation, so I didn’t think scripture was necessary, but here you are:
Rev 20:4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.
Clearly this is post-trib, and Jesus calls it the first resurrection. If there had been an earlier resurrection 7 years before, this would have been the second one.
Then at the end of the millennium:
Rev 20:12
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
This is the second resurrection, of everyone else.
So how did Jesus get the math wrong? Seems a carpenter should be pretty good with numbers, don’t you think?
As for your repeated question:
then what was satan’s excuse for pulling the biggest blunder since the Creation?
I don’t know what you are referring to. Actually Satan is quite clever and has fooled the very elect. He has 99.9% of modern Christians breaking the 4th commandment and believing it is just fine to do so. Now that is clever. Making up this silly cover story of a chip and New World Order etc, is also brilliant. No one will see what’s coming and think they are safe.
No sir, no blunder here. He’s even given gullible Christians the false hope of an early rescue – all the way to heaven! God never does such a thing. It is nowhere in the bible – God’s people whisked away to safety then returned to earth later. The tribulation will be a test and we will all be students. We either have the seal of God (His commandments) in our foreheads or the mark of Satan (his seal) which is sin – and sin is transgression of the law. One is the opposite of the other. It is really quite simple (KISS) and needs no New World Order, One-World religion One world Currency or Antichrist. Its already here! Satan has already succeeded. He just has to wait for the test to begin.
Hello! Are you there? Did you get raptured yesterday? Am I left behind?
Is anybody out there?
James,
Thanks for posting all of that Scripture that you don’t understand.
The questioned referred to the fact that If satan understood scripture, he wouldn’t have entered Judas’s heart to start the ball rolling to have Yeshua crucified.
For that was the culmination of God the Fathers plan for Victory. Reconciliation to God in spite of mans sin was attained once and for all, through the shedding of Yeshua’s blood and for those that would believe this, and accept Him as their Savior.
But by your response above, you clearly didn’t comprehend this, nor it appears, did you comprehend anything else that I provided.
Ya know, if you were as really as funny as you think you are, you would probably be on stage.
Granted you are entertaining alright, but not in the context that you think that you are.
You’ll be a real hit during the tribulation. Sorry, but I do what Yeshua my Lord asks me to do every night, so hopefully, (if accounted worthy) I won’t be here to catch your show.
Don’t forget to tell them the one about Sunday worship, and the one you think the mark is … you’ll have them demons rolling in the isles.
a.
a,
Satan has made many blunders, starting in the Garden of Eden and throughout history. He has tried many ways to accomplish his goal. But he knows he can’t change prophecy, so Jesus had to die in any case. His goal now that he failed to kill Christ as soon as He was born (rev12) is to pollute God’s church and to get God’s people to trade God’s seal for his own. Of all the commandments the one that is the easiest to get people to forget is the one that begins with the word “Remember” so that will be his mark. Break one commandment is to break them all, and the 4th is the easiest for people to break, so it is Satan’s best choice. You think you are safe because you run with the crowd. 99.9% of Christians can’t all be wrong – right?
That is why the “whole world” (Christians) will follow the beast.
Do you really think that a true sinner could be raptured? The wages of sin is death. Jesus taught that those to teach that the law may be broken will not see the kingdom of heaven. (Marianne can probably find that one faster than I can). So a declared outlaw like yourself is not likely to be among the remnant of the true church that would be raptured, If there were a rapture. So I guess I will see you in the tribulation after all.
Only you won’t be laughing at my jokes by then I’m afraid.
🙂
James,
I find it amusing that you appear to possess considerably more knowledge regarding satan than you do about scripture. But even there you fall short.
I believe that satan’s first blunder, was when his ego got the best of him and he believed that he could ascend above the heights of the clouds, and be like the most High God.
You will find this to be confirmed within Isaiah 14:7-14., when the whole world taunts him with a song that will be sung after he is defeated, and beaten to a pulp by Yeshua the Glorious King upon His return to establish His Kingdom.
Yes, yes, yes…… “Remember to keep the Sabbath day holy.”, however don’t forget that the “Son of man is Lord even of the Sabbath day.” (Matt, 12:8., Mark 2:8., Luke 6:5.) Yeshua broke that Commandment as it was understood at that time, (by the Sadducees and the Pharisees, and You; where Yeshua said, “But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.” Matt. 15:9.), numerous times to perform miracles in restoring sight and limbs and in doing what was then considered to be work.
You are always placing so much emphasis on this “one” Commandment, when you don’t even understand what Yeshua expressed regarding the Commandments in Matthew 5:21-30.? “That the “heart” is the issue and not the letter of the law!
You don’t understand Matthew 5:17., nor do you understand what was meant when Yeshua said, “it is finished” in John 19:30.
Yeshua did not teach, as you say, “that those that taught that the law could be broken would not see the Kingdom of Heaven”. You have culled out Matthew 5:19., and used it out of context. (Imagine that?)
He taught that the letter of the law, (due to mans heart), was impossible to follow, therefore He would fulfill it in mans stead. This is what fully qualified Him to be the Lamb without spot or blemish and to be accepted by God the Father as a one time blood sacrifice for all of man kind.
There would be no point whatsoever for Yeshua to say,
“I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” (John 14:6.) if He Himself wasn’t sufficient enough?
Nowhere does He introduce the necessity of keeping the letter of the Law Commandments. On the contrary He does say in John 15:10.
“If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.”
The first “Commandments” there are Yeshua’s Commandments, which are;
John 13:34.
“A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.”
John 15:12.
“This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.”
John 15:17.
“These things I command you, that ye love one another.”
And in Matthew 22:37-40., Yeshua said,
“Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it , Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.”
John expounded on this and reiterated to provide further clarity to what was meant in;
1 John 2:7.
”Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.”
1 John 3:11.
”For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.”
The second Commandments in John 15:10 above, are the Fathers Commandments that Yeshua, being without sin, was able to be obedient to on our behalf.
God the Father said to the prophet Jeremiah in 31:31,32.
”Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:”
This is the New Covenant of Grace through Yeshua and His shed Blood that we are currently in today.
God the Father then proceeds with the following in verse 33;
”But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.”
This is referring to the Holy Spirit that guides those that have been indwelt by accepting the Lord as their Savior, to have the “heart” that Yeshua expresses as being necessary to fulfil the essence of the law, (Matthew 22:37-40.) in Matthew 5:21-30.
But you carry on with what you believe, attempting to fulfil the shoes that only Yeshua was able to fulfil. Even though scripture states, “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come ; but the body is of Christ.” Colossians 2:16,17.
Nope you just carry on spewing your falsehoods with all the other Polygonum arenastrum. (I know that you know Latin.)
I’ll stick with Yeshua as my Precious and Glorious Savior thank you very much, rather than rely upon your Sunday in being such a big deal.
As well, I will also heed the following warning from Paul;
”I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before , so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.”Galatians 1:6-9.
It is my prayer that God the Father, through His Holy Spirit provide those that read your comments with the ability to discern His truth, and realize that you really don’t have a clue what you are talking about. I happen to believe, that if something walks like a duck, and Quacks like a Duck, then there is a pretty good likelihood that what is waddling, is a Duck.
To all others, May you be Blessed in Yeshua our Precious and Glorious Savior who is in Himself, completely and totally sufficient.
Amen.
From what you are saying, the rapture occurs after the millenium, which is too late.
Marianne,
I’m not sure what you mean by a rapture. I said there will be two resurrections, one when Christ returns and another before the Great White Throne Judgement.
When Jesus returns, the dead in Christ will rise from the grave and the sea shall give up her dead etc, and those who are alive will be changed and they will all meet Jesus in the air. This was tradition when ancient kinks would return to their kingdoms after a trip – the city would empty out and go out to greet him. The romans did this with their Caesars as well.
But these will only be the righteous, not the non-believers. This you could call a rapture.
At the end of the millennium there will be the second resurrection, when everyone else who ever lived will be raised and judged according to their works. Those who are not worthy or willing to become God’s children will go to the lake of fire. The living in Christ at that time will be changed, but not “caught up” to meet a returning Jesus – He will already be living on earth. So you couldn’t call that a rapture.
Those are the only two events you can count on for sure. Any additional returns/raptures/resurrections are purely imaginary.
James,
Again, (sigh)……
In regards to your apparent inability to comprehend scripture, where you say, “that the Book of Revelation makes it clear that there are only two resurrections” well then the two resurrections, (that you say are clearly stated), have already occurred.
“And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.” Matthew 27:52,53.
I don’t know about you, but that sure sounds like a resurrection to me?
Just as Revelation 2:11., 20:6., 20:14., and 21:8., all refer to a second death, the terminology “first resurrection” is comprised of the numerous resurrections,(which consist of 6 in total, with Yeshua being the “firstfruits” and those “saints” of Matthew 27), leaving 4 remaining, the Church, the 144,000, the Tribulation Saints, and the Two Witnesses that are yet to occur. All of these are categorized and fall under the banner of “first resurrection, (Revelation 20: 5,6.).
Then there will be the “2nd. and last resurrection” that coincides with the “second death” at the Great White Throne judgement for those that will be judged from the Book of Life. (Revelation 20:11-15.)
It’s all there in black and white.
But I suspect that the problem is that it was translated and written in English rather than Duck Quack. 🙂
James,
I just thought that I’d add this for you since you have difficulty in believing the above.
If there weren’t multiple resurrections, (that are all comprised under the banner of “first resurrection”), then that would mean, (based upon Revelation 20:4-6.), that the only group of people worthy to rule and reign with Yeshua our Lord in His Millennial Kingdom, would be “those that were beheaded during the Tribulation”.
Revelation 20:4-6.
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection. Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
If we take the aspect and the honor of “ruling and reigning with the Lord” then that would mean by what is expressed above, that the only ones that will rule and reign are from the church of Thyatira, and all of them must end up being beheaded.
Therefore, everyone that has died in Yeshua already, no matter how they lived for Him while alive, or what category of church that they fit into, are simply outta luck. And that is ridiculous.
There are numerous resurrections that all fall under the banner of “First Resurrection”.
Mull over that one for awhile.
a.
A,
Consider it mulled, but there will only be one resurrection when all the people described will rise to meet Jesus in the clouds. There is no waiting room in heaven where people go to wait to be brought down to earth to reign with Christ in the millennium. There is no need nor purpose for them in heaven.
Jhn 3:12
If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you [of] heavenly things?
Jhn 3:13
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of man which is in heaven.
Jesus made it clear that people from earth do not go to heaven (or hell for that matter-he didn’t mention it since it doesn’t exist)
And that won’t change now. He will return to earth and the dead and living will meet him on earth, and then stay on earth. Heaven is not for people, like you and me. We are forever bound to the earth. Disappointing for many, fer shure dude, but the truth. Sad.
And remember, denial is the first stage of grief.
🙂
james
we all leave when nibiru shows up..
ha ha
ha ha
I just mean Jesus shows up and we leave…..to me it is at the 6th seal…since the sun, moon, stars and sky description in revelation match that of Matt 24….
MORE SPEC: If you even clicked onto the first WORD of this letter (instead of deleting), you are an AMAZING ‘watcher.’ But, I venture to say that the scenario is even clearer. Well, it HAS to be, since the Prophet Daniel SAID it would! What am I to do?…..Give up?? Remember that labor pains (as in childbirth) are continually closer as birth nears but I also understand it is VERY hard to give heed to a Rapture date at this point with all the previous failed dates. But, as in labor, the observer never knows which ‘contraction’ will bring about the birth!
Here are the high points now:
150 days from Jan 24, 2012 (which was 360…1 perfect yr…. from Jan 29, 2011, UFO) plus another 23 days is SUNDAY, TAMMUZ 25, the likely SIGNING. This is the start of the first 1260 days when a.c. keeps covenant w/ Israel. 150 days, of course, match the 150-day delay in the Noah story.
Three days later is WED, July 18, presumed Rapture, which is the start of the 1260 days of Elijah and Moses’ ministry as well.
1260 days of Elijah & Moses’ ministry til their murder by the satanically ‘risen’ a.c. is Wed, Dec 30, 2015; and I made it clear that Dec 30 minus the projected loss of 23 days (when earth straightens) is the KISLEV 24 of Haggai 2. So Dec 30, the day the a.c. ‘rises’ (Great Trib starts) will be seen as Kislev 24 in retrospect when the trib is over. It stands to reason that the day Satan enters the a.c. is the day that ‘all Hell breaks loose’ upon this earth. Read Haggai 2 & know that no other day on the Jewish calendar holds such an extreme prophecy of world tumult.
RETURN (2520 from Sun, July 15, 2012 SIGNING) is SHAVUOT, SIVAN 6, June 9, 2019 (SUNDAY). Shavuot is, of course, the b-day of the Law and the b-day of the Church (Pentecost). It is a type of ‘Wedding Day’ since this is the day the Jews will have called Jesus back. Shavuot is the day that the Church STARTED and it will be the day the trib ‘ENDS’ when Jesus RETURNS.
75 days (30 mourning/45 judg Nations) past June 9 reaches August 23, VIRGO 1, the first day of the Mazzarot cycle.
10 days past the Rapture is the Fast Day of AV 9, the likely Divine Victory in the mts of Israel. Add exactly 207 days (7 Jewish mths) of burying bodies & bldg of 3rd Temple to arrive at Feb 20, 2013, Adar 9, start of the 2300 days (exact) of Temple Worship (Dan 8).
This means that the N. Invasion of Israel will occur within the 9 days after the Rapture (amidst the incomparable world chaos)….Ezek 38-39.
The 1260 days of Petra Protection span Sunday, Dec 27, 2015 (a.c. stops dy sacrifices/breaks covenant/sets self in Temple/is killed) to the Return Sunday, Sivan 6, Shavuot, 2019.
1290 & 1335 from mid trib are fine with the trib ending on the LAST day of the Mazzarot cycle, LEO 30 with the next day being VIRGO 1.
At the Return the earth date ‘backs up’ to May 17, which is a Wed, 3 days past May 14……..but no matter, since the count of May 14 holds because of the Sunday count start BEFORE May 17. It is still the beginning of the 71st yr of Statehood.
Av 9 minus the 3 wks (earth tilt that will minus) still counts as Tammuz 17 (4th mth Fast Day); but as for the Fast of Tevet 10 being a day turned to joy, there doesn’t seem to be an exact day upon which to focus. It really doesn’t matter, though, since the Return of Christ creates joy for all 4 Fast Days anyway.
As for the 280-day ‘spiritual gestation’ period for the Church and for the Remnant (both being the ‘BODY of Christ’), the 280 fits even better, since both 280’s span Succoth to Tammuz 28. (Succoth is the primary celebration of the Millennium). The Rapture is Tammuz 28 and the end of the trib is Tammuz 28 (exactly 7 Jewish yrs), both dates 280 from Succoth.
So now, I’m looking to Wednesday, July 18. As for the presumed SIGNING this Sunday, July 15, know that the threat of chemical attack from Syria has Israel extremely concerned (among other MEGA threats); and if Israel ever needed a ‘Peace Pact’ for protection, it’s NOW. As far as I can see, the next few days should be very interesting. The July 15th solar flare effect and eclipse of moon & Jupiter add some validation as well, if applicable.
J.H.
….thought I’d share a bit more & dare you to understand it. It is exactly 52 days from SIVAN 6, SHAVUOT) to Tammuz 28 (Wed, July 18), Rapture.
52 is 75 days (30+45) minus the 23-day tilt loss at the Return.
Thus Shavuot (Sivan 6) 2012 plus 52 days is the Rapture.
The 75 post-Return days are in judgment (will be 52 when the 23 days are subtracted since 75 minus 23 is 52). The post-Return 75 days will accomplish their full span (30+45); but the calendar will be ‘as’ the passing of only 52 days.
The 52 days on the pre-Rapture side ‘match/cancel out’ the 52 days on the post-Return side……thus, the RAPTURE will be ‘as if it had been’ on SHAVUOT when those dates are cancelled.
The 52 on THIS side of the trib isin GRACE and the 52 on the post-Return side are in JUDGMENT.
…..sort of awesome. if applicable! I KNEW that SHAVUOT 2012 was mega-significant!….and with the above in mind, the trib is SHAVUOT 2012 to SHAVUOT 2019!
(Of course, if one doesn’t understand the 23-day loss at the straightening of the earth, then the above is nonsense.)
Hey Jan,
Can’t believe you are still hard at work with all this nonsense, but here we are.
But you have finally said something that is without a doubt true:
(Of course, if one doesn’t understand the 23-day loss at the straightening of the earth, then the above is nonsense.)
You seem to believe that after Christ returns the earth’s axial tilt will be “straightened” to 0 degrees.
Even If God could do such a thing without destroying the surface of the earth and every living thing on it, it would be a stupid move. Without the tilt, there would be no seasons. No Winter/Spring/Summer/Fall. No winter snow pack to feed rivers thru the summer and fall. Bird and other animal migrations would be affected and millions of species would go extinct. Even human civilization would be drastically affected. It would be totally whack, man!
God created the earth in a specific way. We need the seasons, the moon and tides etc for life to flourish.
So the whole idea is simply dumb. Now I’m sure you have discovered some tiny little biblical clue that only you have been able to correctly interpret that will prove your point, and maybe alienated and a few others might buy into it since they like complex explanations, but I’m the simple skeptic around here and I’m not falling for it. Sorry.
But then I will never believe your hypothesis, simply because I don’t believe in your basic premise. I don’t believe in a 7-year (70th week of Daniel) tribulation, or an Antichrist, or a peace pact, or a rapture. I also don’t think Christ will return on Pentecost – He has already fulfilled that feast.
The rest of your statement is mostly double-talk. Pulling in pieces of scripture, current events, solar flares, and an eclipse of the moon and Jupiter? What’s with that? This stuff really belongs on YouTube. That’s where you will find faithful believers (gullible people with too much time on their hands).
I’m surprised you didn’t include the Nibiru myth or the Mayan calendar in there, just for extra measure.
But I must admit, it is entertaining to me and it gives me a chance to use my sarcastic wit, so thanks for that.
So, now it is Wednesday, eh? Well, I’m looking forward to seeing the two witnesses anyway, at least they are real. The rapture, not so much. Well, If it is your goal to keep everyone on the edge of their seats in biblical anticipation, you may be accomplishing it at least for the time being.
But I’ll be here keeping an eye on you. Get too crazy and I’ll let you have it. 🙂
Bless.
maybe a 0 degree tilt would make the earth tropical year round. that would be nice.
Why do yu think the Noah story speaks of 5 mths as 150 days? (5 x 30), or why do you think the earth enters each of the 12 Mazzarot signs on the 23rd of each month? Or why do scientists find tropical seeds/plants, etc far below the Arctic ice?
Prophecy speaks of 1260 days which is 42 months of 30 days each. A perfect circle is 360 days and the trib is 7 x 360 days.
When the earth is straight, the year and the Mazzarot cycle will both be 360 days.
The present extremes of seasons is due to the earth tilt’; and when the earth is straight, the earth’s climate will again be tropical as at Creation.
The Bible speaks of no wind/no rain/great heat at the end of the trib which means the water (esp the ice caps) will evaporate upward to form the pre-flood protective canopy again.
God said in His Word that He will never FLOOD the earth again; and the seeming potential for the melting of the ice caps creates fear today.
Isaiah speaks of people living to age 1000 again (in the Millennium) which can only happen if the water canopy shields humans from the deadly gamma rays.
The Bible speaks of no more oceans in the Millennium, but only seas…..etc.
God can do ANYTHING; and the straightening of the earth is NOTHING for Him.
Sorry but a zero degree tilt will not result in a wonderful tropical earth. The tear-round temps would depend on the latitude. The poles would remain permanently frozen and the equator would become too hot for human habitation. Even a slight change in ocean temps and currents could have a disastrous effect on world climate and could wipe out half of all life on the planet.
Sure God could use His magic and override mother nature, or even change the laws of nature or even modify all the species on earth so they could survive on such a foreign planet. He could stick us all in a hermetically sealed box and toss in some manna a couple times a day. But after all the work He put into making the earth I can’t see why He would want to tear it all to pieces.
Once again, you are trying to make everything super complicated using imaginative interpretations. Sure, anything is possible, so you can believe it If you want. No harm, no foul.
Maybe when Nibiru gets here it will cause a pole shift and a change in the earth’s tilt.
Sure, that’s the ticket!
🙂
I am going to give “my opinion” on this discussion of the “rapture”. We all know the buzz words, phrases, and numbers that leads us to believe which scriptures are referring to Messiah’s return. “I” believe we compile scriptures that basically bolsters our beliefs in end time dating and events that is based off of our basic theological beliefs. The scriptures say that we shall know the season, but that no one knows the day nor the hour, except Yah alone. What is most interesting about all of this is the fact that using the wording, dates, numbers, and phrases that allude to end time theology, can point with many proofs to a varying number of dates for Messiah’s return. I also have a certain time frame in mind and it is very real to me. Mainly, because I believe it was revealed in a manner that was very personal, and then corroborated by other proofs. It causes me to stick to this interpretation of end times more than others. But I do see where I could be wrong, so, I hold onto it, but loosely. What is interesting is that all of these dates, numbers, events, and so on can seem to work perfectly in so many different scenerios. Maybe this is what was meant by “no one would know the day or the hour, but for Yah alone.” The emphasis being on the “knowing” part and all that knowing really means. I personally believe, after hearing and seeing all the debates concerning this, that built into scripture (by Yah), are an undeterminded number of scenerios that seem to work perfectly, while only one is correct, truly only known by the Father. But we know we are in the season and to be prepared, regardless of the exact date or exactly how every event is going to unfold. The discussions show that what does happen, is a break in fellowship and a hardness of heart that comes on us, actually making us vulnerable to the enemy, over something that we were more than likely not meant to undertand 100%. And then, maybe I don’t have a clue what I am talking about. I “know” that it seems right to me, but…………
One more thing I forgot which is important. I do believe that as Messiah fulfilled the Spring Feasts to the day and the hour, so He will fulfill the Fall Feasts to the day and the hour, whichever that year that will be. There are so many that seem right!
Hi Al,
I would have to agree with much of what you say above.
Due to the way that the Holy Spirit inspired the Word to be written, there are twists and turns, verses that present and express the exact same thing, but have an entirely different context, and refer to a completely different event.
As I have stated somewhere above, this was done with intention and purpose, so that the determining and necessary factor in being able to understand the Word was to be indwelt with the Spirit of Truth to decipher it. (You have to be of God, to understand God so to speak.)
I’ll describe one of the visions, (that I had a couple of months ago now), that revealed all of this to me.
First theses were no where near to to being similar to simply having a dream.
You are completely asleep, when all of a sudden, (though you are aware that you are asleep still), you are completely awake and mentally focused.
You are also acutely aware that you are in the presence of the Almighty and you can feel your body trembling from the awesomeness of His presence.
Now I am watching in my mind, and I see a computer display screen, and on it a small “pop-up” window appears. Then from this solitary pop-up window, another identical window materializes from it and moves beside it to what would be my right. So now I am looking at two identical windows side by side, and wondering what the heck that means?
Then a cursor appears, and in the window on the left, Scripture appears as well. The cursor then scrolls over the identical window on the right, (which is blank) and it flips over so that I could see what would be hidden on the back, and lo and behold, it was Scripture that held the answer to the Scripture that was in the pop-up window to the left. And I understood it completely.
Then the cursor would move off of the window on the right, it would flip back again and become blank, and what I had just completely understood a second ago, vanished and disappeared without a trace from my mind. This same scenario happened over and over again until the vision was over, and I woke up totally confused as to what it all meant?
It took a couple of days of prayer and contemplation to grasp and understand what was revealed.
What I understand now, is that the Word is infinitely more complex than it appears on the surface, (which with God being God, makes total sense).
That the Word in actuality is one massive puzzle which only the Spirit can decipher correctly. There are verses that within the context of any given passage are applicable and belong there, but that can also be taken out of that particular book completely, or re-located within that book, to provide either further information to another passage, or substantiate another passage as well. And there are verses that say the exact same thing, but are in actuality describing totally different events. Oy-Vey…. lol.
The overall complexity of the Bible is simply beyond our human capacity to understand. And as well, though satan can read the Word, in not having the Holy Spirit to decipher it correctly, the Word is beyond his capacity as well.
Any way’s, when I was reading Matthew 24 there and got to 24:36., I wasn’t in the process of looking for verses that would support a rapture?
I was in the process of studying the book of Daniel and a completely different topic in respects to end times. I have read Matthew 24 literally hundreds of times but when I got to verse 36 this time a day ago, it jumped out and grabbed my attention. So I stopped and asked the Spirit why, and the information that I have written within the posts above came to mind.
For an example of what I have said above regarding, “there are verses that say the exact same thing, but are in actuality describing totally different events” I have become aware, and now believe, that though Matthew 24:40,41., and Luke 17:34-36., say virtually the same thing, they are describing two different events. Matthew is describing the “gathering of the Assembly” whereas Luke is describing Yeshua’s second coming, and the “Wheat and the Tare” parable.
Now I want to go and investigate the “nugget” that Marianne presented above in Zechariah 14. to see what additional information can be revealed.
But before I let you go, though “the day and the hour” wouldn’t necessarily have to coincide with one of the Feasts, (though personally I believe that it would), have a deeper look into Shavu’ot for that. I used to believe that Yom Teru’ah would be the next fulfilment too, however there is so much more to Shavu’ot to take into consideration. Look into the meaning of the Menorah, Birth and death of King David, Ruth and Boaz, who Rahab ended up being in regards to David, what we know that has already transpired on Shavu’ot, and how that would relate to the Trinity. Leviticus 23:9-22 and how it relates to leaven and firstfruits. etc., etc.
Any way’s I have to head out, and when I come back, I’ll investigate Zechariah.
To all, be Blessed in Yeshua our Precious and Glorious KING of kings.
Amen.
a.
Oh and regards to the aspect of fellowship, I am fine where things stand with certain individuals.
Some divisions happen for a reason.
Hi A!
Enjoying your posts!!!
Shavuot has had my vote for a long time but Tu’B Av is also interesting…
May the Lord bless and keep you.
Malia
Hi Malia,
How the heck have you been?
We haven’t been blessed in having you here for quite a long time, (or have you just not been posting any comments?)
How is your little tyke?
I pray that the Lord has been holding you all tight in His heart.
Don’t be such a stranger in the future. lol.
a.
Praise Yeshua our Holy and Precious Savior.
Glory be to our KING of kings and LORD of lords.
Amen
A-I have not been here for a long time. When I have time I have been lurking on five doves website. A gentleman, Bruce Baber, has been posting some interesting letters there. You may want to check it out. There have been a number of times that I thought,” I wish Alienated had read that. He’d have something to say!” But I had to stop by here as my mailbox was flooded with comments and my curiosity was piqued,
However, I think I agree with James (did I say that?). Matthew 24 is talking about the 2nd coming. I understand your point that there are day counts pointing to His return but I think the idiom “no one know the day or the hour” refers to the Feast of Trumpets-not that we are ignorant.
I do agree with you though, that Scripture is brilliantly, intricately woven, completely adequate in it’s simplicity but so complex that it can be studied for a lifetime and not one of us will take in a fraction of what is there. Praise be to the Author! That is one of the reasons I appreciate websites like this because people with different perspectives can share what they have studied and they look at it from a vantage that wouldn’t have even occurred to me.
Personally we have been well. We are trying an online virtual academy for my son this year. I am looking forward to that! My blessed and highly favored husband needs a new job and our car is really fritzy so prayers are welcome! We have been on the road to contentment which started with a lesson on humility. There is no easy way to learn humility…but God is amazingly faithful!!! He has provided for everything we have needed and more, so I expect Him to continue to do so.
In Truth,
Malia
Hi Malia,
I didn’t think that you’ve been here. (And I’ll do some lurking myself, and check into that website that you suggested and see what Bruce has to say).
I will still have to investigate Matthew 24:36., further, before I come to any definitive conclusions myself. I just thought that I would throw it out there, because of how it all of a sudden jumped off the page. I am sure that you have experienced a sorta of “Ah-Ha” moment like that yourself many times during your own course of study. And I’ll forgive you for what you say within the preceding sentence prior to what you have enclosed within brackets too. lol. (Even a broken watch is right twice a day. lol)
I’m happy to hear that you’ve all been well. 🙂
I hope that your son enjoys the online academy that you are going to enrol him in, and that it proves to be a blessing. And of course I’ll offer up prayers for your Husband to find a good job. And “Yes” the Lord our God is faithful ! Its amazing how adversity, leads to being humble, which leads to surrender, which then leads to contentment and blessings. He works completely opposite as to how the world does.
I did happen to notice, (being the typical loving Mom and Wife), that you didn’t mention anything regarding yourself personally but only others.
I believe that is a sign of a pure and loving heart.
May You and your family continue to be Blessed in our Lord.
Take Care,
a.
Praise be to Yeshua our Holy and Precious Savior. Our Glorious KING of kings and LORD of lords.
Amen.
hi malia
Your husband has our prayers for a favorable job.
Thanks!!!
As Wed approaches, leading into Thurs, a few things need clarification in case anxiety sets in since you may be taking the Rapture date speculation seriously; but as far as I can see, all is perfect for Thursday, July 19:
1 yr warning: Jan 29, 2011 (Temple Mt UFO, Rev 11) to Jan 29, 2012 – one exact solar yr (Jerem 51:46)
150 days (delay as in Noah story) from Jan 29, 2012 +23 more days (earth tilt that will minus) = Thur, July 19 (Tammuz 29); i.e. words, Jan 29, 2012 (END of the 1-yr warning) to Thurs, July 19 is 173 days (150 + 23).
Shavuot (May 27-28, 2012, Sivan 6 & 7) plus 52 days is also July 19, 2012 (Note 52 is 75 minus 23). The 52 on THIS side of the trib is in GRACE; the 52 on the post-Return side of the trib is in JUDGMENT.
RETURN: Sivan 7, 2019….thus Shavuot 2012 to Shavuot 2019 still holds). Shavuot is Sivan 6-7 all over the earth since one day is 72 hrs total.
RETURN: JUNE 10, 2019 (52nd solar anniv, end 6-Day War 1967)
8 days (N. Invasion of Israel, Ezek 38-39) after the Rapture, AV 9, 2012 (July 28): Divine Victory mts of Israel (also FAST Day turned to joy)
SEVEN Greg mths later (burying/bldg 3rd Temple) is Feb 28, 2013 when the 2300 days of Temple Worship Begin.
2300 days after Feb 28, 2013 is June 17, 2019 which is 30 days after the Return w/ the -23 considered. (i.e. Return is June 10, minus 23 is May 18, +30 days mourning is June 17, the Isaiah 63 procession into Jerusalem/Temple REconsecrated)
Return plus 75 days (30 + 45) is VIRGO 1, 2019, 1st day of the Mazzarot cycle (Aug 1 w/ the -23 considered).
Entire trib is Tammuz 29, 2012 to Tammuz 29, 2019, 7 exact Jewish yrs (w/ the -23 considered).
MID-TRIB is Monday-Thurs, Dec 28-Dec 31, 2015 and Dec 28 minus the projected -23 in retrospect is KISLEV 24 (Hag 2).
The difference between this letter and the previous is that now we are dealing with Gregorian mths instead of Jewish, which is fine, as well. If the SIGNING was Monday, July 16, 2012 (signer unrevealed for the 3 days July 16-19), that day is also Cancer 24 (11/888), which is “judgment by Jesus” if applicable. After all, the trib IS the WRATH of the LAMB. In that case, July 16 (Tammuz 26 = ‘double 13′) would start the 1260 of a.c. keeping covenant w/ Israel. Elijah and Moses’ 1260 days would begin the same day as the Rapture, Thurs, July 19. They will both be killed when a.c. ‘rises.’ The 3rd 1260 is the 1260 days of Petra Protection beginning Mon, Dec 28, 2015 til the Return June 10, 2019. Of course the 1290 & the 1335 of Dan 12:11-12 both span perfectly according to the above as well.
Thus all is perfect for a Thurs Rapture & nothing seems to be off base. I didn’t want Tues to pass w/out a further note; and I know this letter either gives you some comfort or it further angers you as you deal w/ this stranger’s speculation. Who on earth DOESN’T SPECULATE? I simply WRITE it DOWN & SEND IT! while others just THINK it! You are supposed to glean from the above or ignore it…..J.H.
a,
Well, you are now officially impossible to argue with.
After I showed you that the subject of Mat24:26 was the second coming, you tell ME that I’m pulling verses out of context.
And then you claim to have a vision from the Holy Spirit that proves the bible is way more complicated than we could possibly imagine, and that many similar phrases have completely different meanings whose true interpretation can only be deciphered either by God Himself of by His true prophets thru the Holy Spirit.
Didn’t Jim Jones have a similar philosophy?
Anyway, with that kind of logic, you are completely safe from contradiction. It is a technique many YouTube idiots use to prove the existence of Nibiru, the Mayan calendar and all sorts of end-of-the-world scenarios.
Sorry, but I just don’t think that way. After all, you don’t believe what I show you in scriptures, so I’m not going to believe what you thought you saw in a dream.
Now to Jan.
So now it‘s going to be Thursday, eh? Oh well, just one more day. I’ll look for news of that secret treaty after you‘se guys is gone.
Otherwise we will all be waiting with baited breath for your next prediction. But it seems to me that with so many variables and so much scripture you could keep this up all the way till the second coming… the real one. And maybe you will.
And to Marianne, If you are trying to find the day of the rapture in Zechariah, forget it. Verse 4 says His feet shall set upon the Mount of Olives in that day, so this is clearly at the second coming, not some early rapture.
Unless you also believe that the subject of a chapter can simply change in the middle of it with no rhyme or reason. If so, then you must believe that God is a God of confusion. In that case, almost nobody will understand what is happening in the tribulation. Of course, that won’t matter If we’ve all been whisked away to heaven. Leave the prophecy to atheists or Buddhists or whoever is left behind. Maybe Adam was right – we don’t really need the Book of Revelation, its not for us. And who cares If we understand prophecy? In the end, almost no one will be totally correct. And most are dumb as Daniel. So we are really wasting our time here, aren’t we? None of it matters. The mark of the beast is of no consequence. The location of the wilderness is moot. Seems that most prophecy was just a waste of words, written for people who will never see it unfold.
Doesn’t make sense to me, but I guess it’s true.
Hmmm.
james
For me, I do not think we are going anywhere anytime too soon. I am just waiting until Jesus comes back, and that rapture might be the second coming for all I know.
Marianne,
Actually, that is probably the best attitude to have.
Prepare for the tribulation but hope for an early rapture.
I don’t believe in the rapture but I’ll be just as happy If I’m wrong.
But those who expect it will be lost when it doesn’t happen, although as I mentioned earlier, If you don’t believe the rapture is near because world events have not yet come together, then it may be a moot point in the end.
But then If the commonly accepted “Left Behind” scenario fails to materialize, most Christians will indeed be surprised by the second coming and will still be waiting for a mark of the beast that will never appear.
So good news and bad news I guess.
Bless.
james and alienated
If you have reached an empasse, maybe it would be better to discontinue, rather than continue to argue.
I am already there Marianne.
As I said in my last post, “James, this will be my last response to you for awhile”. I am tired of simply arguing.
James 5:7 is interesting though……
Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.
Hmmm, the Ekklēsia perhaps referred to there as “early rain”. And the Tribulation Saints, perhaps referred to there as “latter rain”.
Be Blessed in Yeshua our Precious and Glorious Savior.
Amen.
James,
I can’t comment on Jim Jones, but this is what Scripture say’s regarding the necessity of the Spirit to interpret the Word that He inspired correctly.
(And Scripture isn’t a philosophical construct.)
9 But as it is written , Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
1 Corinthians 2:9-14. KJV.
The same verses translated from the New International Version to ensure that they are understood.
9 However, as it is written: “No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him”
10 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man’s spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
In other words, we need the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to recognize and understand the truths of Scripture. The natural or soulish human mind isn’t capable of understanding. The Bible is not a Text book that can simply be studied with that of human intellect. If you don’t pray to God the Father for the Spirit to show you Yeshua within its pages, then you are wasting your time, and the Spirit won’t help you to understand its content.
Praise be to Yeshua our Holy and Precious Savior. Our Glorious KING of kings and LORD of lords.
Amen.
a,
Just to be clear, I often pray to God to help me understand His word. While I have never been visited by a visible angel or spoken to in a voice that could be heard by others, I have received inspirational insights that have led me to where I am today. On the other hand I have read comments on this very site over several years who claim to have spoken to God and received the holy word directly from Him, and all of their predictions have proven false.
You see, just as in the case of Mohammed, Satan can put on lambs clothing and fool anyone into believing anything. How do you think he has polluted the Catholic church and its harlot daughters?
How do you think he has gotten everyone to forget about the fourth commandment? He even has everyone fearing him in that they will have to spend eternity in hell with him sticking them with a pitchfork. Now He’s seen as the demonic ruler of a huge underworld kingdom that doesn’t even exist.
So pardon me If I don’t believe everything that everyone tells me just because they said they thought it came directly from God. If I did, then I would be a Mormon. Some crap is just crap.
So refresh me with your predictions. We know DJ thinks we are almost 3 years into the tribulation with only a Nobel prize as proof. But I’m sure the Holy Spirit verified that with him, so we must all believe it. He is expecting the temple to be rebuilt in 5 months and sacrifices to be reinstated after thousands of years by spring, and a New World Order to develop and the Antichrist, Obama, to take power and sign a peace treaty. O.K., we shall see about that.
Adam and Marianne expect Nibiru to reach earth by Dec 21st, so we shall soon see about that.
So remind us what the Holy Spirit has revealed to you so we can prepare for it. If you are as certain as you claim you shouldn’t worry about being called a False Prophet, and a true prophet doesn’t simply keep his mouth shut.
So please enlighten us and I will save it on paper for future reference.
Thanks.
hey!
I never set a date about nibiru
I am waiting to see if it exists first.
Marianne
Jesus is from the planet Nibiru so it realy exists.
I was referring to the Sept 21 date set on your post “Nibiru’s Projected Path from 2011 – 2018?“
With only 2 months to go it is clear the data is false or Nibiru would be visible by now. Nothing that big could get this close to the sun undetected by observatories all over the world. So for all intents and purposes the story is proven to be bogus.
that was not my calculations. I have none.
but from what I understand, videos have been posted of nibiru but you tube takes them down… so you will not see much documentation on this.
just wait and see.
James
Let an Ortodox and Catholic soul tell you whats going to happen. When nibiru will be visible for us in the end of this year maybe. Only God knows times Jesus will hold the doom from the Vatican and it will rain fire and brimstones over countries that doesn´t belong to him. Remember you heard this from an Ortodox.
Hey, what happened to the Dec 21st arrival date? You were so sure.
Now it “might” be visible by the end of the year, maybe?
Sounds like you’re already backsliding, preparing for the worst.
Either start looking for a new date or start looking for a new religion.
James,
I agree that satan can place falsehoods into people minds. That is why we are told to test the spirits. (1 John 4:1.)
Which begs me to ask the question, “who was it that got you forget Yeshua’s, (Gods) Commandment?” (John 13:34. & 15:12.) And how they supersede and fulfill the law and the prophets as spoken by the Lord in Matthew 22:37-40.?
You are stuck on 1, and have disregarded the Lord’s.
Of course Hell exists! This is why I contend with you constantly to fulfill that of Jude 1:3,4.
My predictions have been posted and are public domain on this site for all that will receive them.
One of them is here on this page describing to me as to how the Word was put together and inspired by the Holy Spirit, and that there is the necessity for the Holy Spirit to decipher them correctly. This is Biblical and substantiated in the scripture that I provided above.
The other is located in 3 sections near the bottom of the “Church of Philadelphia” page, which describes the Vision of Revelation 1:3., (in the King James text), that had the last 5 words, “the time is at hand” in bold, shimmering and vibrating letters, before I heard an audible voice “scream” them out loud with authority.
So one of them is backed up by scripture, which would make it valid and true. And the other, (if you will perhaps watch the News, and look around you), I believe also has merit.
As I have said before, one can receive these or not.
I posted them simply in my efforts to be obedient and to get the message out to as many as possible.
One can test my heart from what I have written here over the years and decide for themselves. One can ask the Holy Spirit that resides in them, and pray for discernment regarding them. Or one can simply be stiffnecked and disregard them. Rarely does God force Himself on anyone. The choice, (as is the response one makes in regards to His Son when He draws them), is left up to the individual themselves.
Praise be to Yeshua the Highest. Our Precious and Glorious KING and Savior.
Amen.
a.
July19-20 AV begins, July 19-20 RAMADAN begins (once in 30 yrs same as Av 1), July 19-20 is 52 days past SHAVUOT, July 19-20 is 150+23 days past end of 1-yr warning, July 19-20 is 280 days past SUCCOTH, 2011, July 19-20 is Rabbi Kaduri’s starting date of his strange prophecy, July 19-20 plus the 2520 (w/ the 3-day overlap) is SHAVUOT 2019 presumed RETURN…….getting interesting!
Sorry Jan, but NO it is not getting interesting. Does anyone out there understand what he is talking about? It is still just double talk to me.
Well, Thursday is here now, so I guess thus is the last we will hear from you.
Enjoy heaven, we’ll see you in 7 years.
🙂
There’s NO WAY I am taking the possible Rapture date past this FRIDAY, AV 1, 2012, July 20……NO WAY! After Friday, I’m DONE!……CHARTS DOWN!, I’ll EAT MY WORDS!, I’ll try to GET A LIFE, I’ll CHANGE MY ‘HOBBY,’ & perhaps BECOME REGULAR, GIVE MY COMPUTER AWAY (No, can’t do that!) and force this stubborn, prophecy-saturated brain into an uncomfortable pre/post-trib mode (THEN we deal with ‘them there’ Revelation judgments…..no fun!…..and NOT my territory!).
But, FRIDAY, AV 1 holds ASTOUNDING significance and MUST be considered! We’re still dealing with the BLESSED HOPE!!! (pre-trib Rapture promise)….and Friday seems like the last day to consider a pre-trib Rapture.
With AV 1 as the Rapture, the END POINT of the trib is also AV 1, 2019 (Aug 2) when all is figured. That day, when the 23.5 days are subtracted (w/ a 1-2-day flexibility), is:
AV 1
AUG 1
VIRGO 1
One must allow a 1-3-day flexibility in all of the figuring because of the span of 1 earth day (72 hrs). Also, God has always dealt in ‘fullness of time’ (and we don’t know if the Lord will deal with the END of a certain day or its start). VIRGO is, of course, the first day of the Millennial 360-day Mazzarot cycle and it’s the sign (1st of the 12) representing newness, purity/virginity as the purity of the Millennium’s start day. You also know that the earth tilt is from 21-24 degrees depending on its location during the year.
A very interesting point to notice is that July 20, 2012 (presumed Rapture) holds an exact 12-day difference to trib’s end of Aug 2, 2019 (w/out the 7-yr trib counted); and there is a 12-day calendar discrepancy in our present calendar ever since the 1500’s when the Pope added 12 days to the calendar (That’s why the Gk Orthod Christmas is Jan 5-6 & ours is Dec 25 since the Orthod never changed their calendar).
AV 9, 2012 is still the Divine Victory (Ezek 38-39) in the mts of Israel, plus 7 mths (209 days) burying/bldg 3rd Temple is Feb 22, 2013, start of Temple Worship. Add exactly 2300 days Temple Worship (Desecration/Dan 8:13-14) to arrive at the exact day of Christ’s Return TUESDAY, June 11, 2019. Hosea 6:2-3 states that Israel shall be RAISED UP on the third day…..TUESDAY.
That day, if applicable, is GEMINI 20, which is 10+10+10……triple 10/triple completion. You know the signif of Gemini.
Mid trib is TUESDAY, Dec 29, 2015 (a.c. breaks covenant/stops sacrif’s/sets self in Temple/killed); and when the projected/future -23+ days are considered, that day is KISLEV 24 (Hag 2)/mid trib/abomination of desolation/start of 1260 days Petra Protection.
If applicable, the mid trib is CAPRICORN 8-11; and Capricorn is the ‘sacrificed goat producing the live fish,’ a Mazzarot sign that Satan would covet as his ‘resurrection’ effect upon the world.
The 7-yr trib, of course, will NOT be counted in God’s Divine 120-Jub (6000 full yrs) time frame; thus AV 1, 2012 to AV 1, 2019 counts ‘as’the same day.’
Note that the RETURN at TUESDAY, June 11, 2019 minus 23.5 days brings earth’s date back to Saturday, May 18; but May 14 (the previous Sunday) is the actual count start because counts were only on Sundays, and Saturday, May 18 doesn’t reach Sunday. Thus May 14, 2019 is the 1st day of the 71st anniv of Israel’s Statehood.
Note too that in the Millennium the perfect year will be as follows (w/ 360 days for the Greg calendar, Jewish calendar & the Mazzarot…..all 3 in perfect balance & synchronization/straight earth:
Nis 1, Apr 1, Taur 1
Iyy 1, May 1, Gem 1
Siv 1, June 1, Can 1
Tam 1, Jul 1, Leo 1
Av 1, Aug 1, Virgo……etc.
Rabbi Kaduri’s prophecy of 5772/AV as Messiah’s arrival is a strange match indeed and Ramadan begins on July 20 (Av1)……so these two points lend credence to Friday as well. Isa 17:1 (Damascus) is certainly taking on an eerie prophetic fulfillment as well along with the enormous threat to Israel (+ Bulgaria’s bus tragedy/Israeli tourists).
Note that this last TUES, July 17, was the possible SIGNING since 1260 days of a.c. ‘keeping’ covenant ends at the breaking of the covenant on Dec 29, 2015. That is also the start of the 1260-day Petra Protection for the fleeing Remnant. The 1260 days of Elijah and Moses’ ministry spans the Rapture day to the day a.c. satanically ‘rises’ Jan 1, 2016. Both the 1290 and the 1335 (Dan 12:11-12) start at the mid-trib, Dec 29, 2015 as well. Of course the SIGNING to CHRIST’s RETURN is 2520 days.
All of the other spans as reviewed in the last letter still hold…….the two 280’s, the 52, the 150 +23, etc……..still hold perfectly and it should be a bit obvious that there is nothing more to study…………..J.H.
Hi Jan,
Guess you’re still here. At least till tomorrow, anyway.
While your calculations are a bit too cryptic for me to decipher, I find several errors in your proposed calendar of events.
Your biggest wrong assumption is that the tribulation will last 7 years, based on the 70th week of Daniel. While this is a very popular idea, it is incorrect. All 70 weeks of Daniel were properly fulfilled, ending in 34AD. I suggest you research the topic, there are many complete discussions to be found on line. This throws a major wrench into the works as you have outlined them.
This also means there will be no peace plan. The covenant with many was actually the “New Covenant” of Jesus Christ.
Also, there is no Antichrist, only the beast kingdom and the False Prophet. (And the image of the beast).
No Antichrist, no covenant, no death/resurrection of the Antichrist. The wound was to one of the heads (kings/nations) of the beast (kingdom) of Revelation 13, not to a person.
You also have Christ returning too early. He must return on the feast of trumpets – at the final trump in order to fulfil that feast. Pentecost (firstfruits) was fulfilled when he arose to heaven in 31 AD. That throws every calculation odd by about a month right there.
And then there is the fact that there is indeed NO RAPTURE. Take the time to fully research every verse used to “prove” the rapture and you will discover, asi just illustrated for Mat24, that they all refer to the second coming, unless you choose to make inappropriate assumptions about the verses. You do so at your own peril but remember you are simply using your imagination to make a point.
I realize that most people study scripture with their hearts and not logically. And very few people have ever studied logic. I had to take a course in computer engineering school, to learn the use of digital logic chips and computer programming, so I tend to use it in my prophecy research. It keeps me from jumping to conclusions that can not be backed up by the scriptures. Unfortunately, many people can’t understand why I don’t get what they’re saying, but in fact, I do “get it” but I don’t agree with it because it comes from corrupted thinking processes.
You on the other hand seem to be quite analytical an can perhaps understand where I come from, but as I said, your calculations are built on a bed of lies and fabrications, and are therefor meaningless.
But If you understood prophecy correctly, I would not be surprised that many of your ideas might fit in properly, and you wouldn’t even need that crazy 23 degree tilt adjustments.
By the way, the earth’s tilt never changes throughout the year – it remains at 23.5 degrees. Seems like you need to study astronomy as well as logic, but you’re not alone on that.
I just wish I knew as much about the calendar days as you do since I find the idea fascinating. But I know that the tribulation has not yet started. It will when the two witnesses appear. Then we will all know the day (but not the hour) of the second coming. Then perhaps you could apply your calculations and predict certain events of the tribulation.
Time will tell.
Unless of course, we are all gone by tomorrow sunset.
🙂
So the prophecy of Daniel has already been fulfilled has it?
This is how I see it.
The prophecy of Daniel has NOT been totally fulfilled !
Why? Because when Yeshua was answering His disciples questions of Matthew 24:3 they were referring to the end times.
Yeshua Himself said, “When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand.)”
Therefore your either believe what Yeshua said regarding the Prophecy of Daniel as being truthful and relevant during end times, or you are calling Him a liar.
Which is it?
Do we listen to man, or the Lord our Savior?
Easy to answer that one, and easy to see that someone doesn’t have a clue what they’ve been talking about.
Just my 2 and something to consider.
a.
For some reason he thinks the lawless one is the Pope. It is clear a third Temple must exist if the lawless one is to declare himself G-d, and cause the abomination of desolation.
There are some who believe all has been fufilled. I would like to remember what their religion is called, as I have heard of them a long time ago. They do not believe in hell too. Sounds like you know who.
Hi James,
This was your comment “This also means there will be no peace plan. The covenant with many was actually the “New Covenant” of Jesus Christ.” You are right and you are also wrong. The covenant of peace mentioned in Isaiah 54:10 is a reference to the cutting of the Renewed Covenant by Yahshua’s own blood. Isaiah 53 (I am sure you remember it) is Messianic in context, speaking of Yahshua being broken and sacrificed for our salvation and the covering of our sins by His blood, bringing peace between man and the Father. Isaiah 54 is an extension of chapter 53. I do believe that Daniel 9:27 is referring to the anti-messiah and not Yahshua. I have read your theory of how all this works out and it fits well, but as we have all seen, something seeming to be so right, can still be so wrong. We will just have to wait and see.
Be Blessed Brother
Hi Al,
Scripture suggests that there will be a peace treaty that will be signed by the 1st beast.
I believe that his character is described in 2 Thessalonians 2 and Psalms 55:21. He is a slim ball.
1 Thessalonians 5:3., would also suggest that this covenant of Daniel 9:27. & Daniel 11:21-24., would be of “peace”, by what is written within the verse.
“For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.”
(Note; that this will happen to, and is referring to people that are in the dark, other than those that are in the light.)
Just my 2.
Praise be unto Yeshua our Precious and Holy Savior. Our Glorious KING of kings and LORD of lords.
The Aleph and the Tav and the Worthy Lamb. Amen.
Hey Al,
Well you do have the right attitude.
I realize I’m not going to convince anyone in a 500 word blog everything I learned in the last ten years. I firmly believed in the common scenario for 20 years and the truth wasn’t easy to come by. I’m only trying to offer an alternative to popular belief so that when the time comes people will have heard my words and will hopefully remember them rather than being totally lost and confused.
And the more I argue my point, the better I may be remembered, so I don’t mind being relentless.
Be blessed my friend.
Hi Jan,
Though I respect and admire your zeal, and congratulate you on the efforts of your studies, that is not why I am commenting to you presently.
The reason that I am commenting, is because I don’t want you to become discouraged because of anything that any particular individual may say.
Especially when they make ridiculous statements without providing any scriptural evidence whatsoever to support there farfetched claims.
I suggest that you just ignore them and continue to follow your heart.
Praise Yeshua our Holy and Precious Savior. Our KING of kings and LORD of lords.
Amen.
a.
Hi Jan,
This is the covenant of peace that James has been talking about: Isaiah 54:10
Isaiah 54
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
54 “Sing, barren woman who has never had a child!
Burst into song, shout for joy,
you who have never been in labor!
For the deserted wife will have more children
than the woman who is living with her husband,” says Adonai.
2 Enlarge the space for your tent,
extend the curtains of your dwelling;
do not hold back, lengthen your cords,
make your tent pegs firm.
3 For you will spread out to the right and the left,
your descendants will possess the nations
and inhabit the desolated cities.
4 Don’t be afraid, for you won’t be ashamed;
don’t be discouraged, for you won’t be disgraced.
You will forget the shame of your youth,
no longer remember the dishonor of being widowed.
5 For your husband is your Maker,
Adonai-Tzva’ot is his name.
The Holy One of Isra’el is your Redeemer.
He will be called the God of all the earth.
6 For Adonai has called you back
like a wife abandoned and grief-stricken;
“A wife married in her youth
cannot be rejected,” says your God.
7 “Briefly I abandoned you,
but with great compassion I am taking you back.
8 I was angry for a moment
and hid my face from you;
but with everlasting grace
I will have compassion on you,”
says Adonai your Redeemer.
9 “For me this is like Noach’s flood.
Just as I swore that no flood like Noach’s
would ever again cover the earth,
so now I swear that never again
will I be angry with you or rebuke you.
10 For the mountains may leave and the hills be removed,
but my grace will never leave you,
and my covenant of peace will not be removed,”
says Adonai, who has compassion on you.
James, I see that you are kind. Don’t worry. I know that the ONLY thing a person must do is respond to Jesus’ shed BLOOD on the Cross for the forgiveness of sins, and that only what we do for Jesus counts….primarily evangelizing…………NOT flood the mind with PROPHECY knowledge. The reason for my letters is so that perhaps someone will see some significant, mind-blowing facts that may ignite an announcement producing last-minute, desperate ‘thief-on-the-cross’ conversions because it is SO important to accept Christ before the world’s deception further clouds the mind and before the Restrainer is “taken out of the way! The differing approaches to prophecy are endless and I don’t expect to please readers as a whole. Different ‘propecy experts’ mess up the subject anyway. As I said, only Acts 16:31 matters.
alienated, thank you for the kind words, I already know I step into dangerous territoy when I deal w/ prophecy….specifically date setting; but I’ve made such a fool of myself that NOTHING bothers me anymore……Wow! Maybe I could even endure persecution!….the BIG stuff! After all, I am HIDING when I write letters like the above. Do you think I could talk face to face about this subject??…..’fraid not!……yes, I’m a sissy, a prophecy sissy! You’re kind, though; and I’ll look forward to meeting you someday in Heaven. Kind words never go to waste & may God bless you.
Jan,
I can’t wait to meet you on that Glorious day either.
We’ll have to sit down and have a long cool drink of mana-juice together.
I hear that it is really nice and refreshing. 🙂
Bless You.
a.
Praise Yeshua our Precious and Holy Savior. The Worthy and Glorious Lamb.
Amen.
Jan
I admire your enthusiasm, even if I do not understand all your calculations.
Fire for the Word is what this site is all about.
So you are welcome to think through all your theories here.
To All;
In Revelation 3:10., Yeshua makes the following statement within his epistle to the Assembly of Philadelphia.
“Because thou hast kept “the word of my patience”, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.”
The necessary requirement to be “kept” from the, “from the hour of temptation which shall come upon all the world”, is to “keep the word of His patience”.
On the surface that sounds simple enough doesn’t it?
However, if we were to delve into the Greek and its root word etymology we should get a better understanding as to what, “keeping the word of His patience” fully consists of.
The English “thou has kept” is derived from the Greek “τηρέω”, transliterated as “tēreō”, (Strong’s 5083).
It is a verb and is defined as, “1) to attend to carefully, take care of . a) to guard. b) metaph. to keep, one in the state in which he is. c) to observe. d) to reserve: to undergo something.”
Tēreō is derived from the transliterated Greek “theōreō”, (Strong’s 2334).
It is also a verb and is defined as “1) to be a spectator, look at, behold. a) to view attentively, take a view of, survey. 1) to view mentally, consider. 2) to see. a) to perceive with the eyes, to enjoy the presence of one. b) to discern, descry. c) to ascertain, find out by seeing.”
Theōreō is derived from the transliterated Greek “theaomai”, (Strong’s 2300).
it is a prolonged form of a primary verb and is defined as “1) to behold, look upon, view attentively, contemplate (often used of public shows) a) of important persons that are looked on with admiration. 2) to view, take a view of. a) in the sense of visiting, meeting with a person. 3) to learn by looking, to see with the eyes, to perceive.”
So….. what has been simply written in English as “thou has kept”, would be comprised of all of the above.
So what is this “patience”, that which we are supposed to keep?
The English “patience” is derived from the Greek “ὑπομονή”, transliterated as “hypomonē”, (Strong’s 5281).
It is a feminine noun and is defined as, “1) steadfastness, constancy, endurance. a) in the NT the characteristic of a man who is not swerved from his deliberate purpose and his loyalty to faith and piety by even the greatest trials and sufferings. b) patiently, and steadfastly. 2) a patient, steadfast waiting for. 3) a patient enduring, sustaining, perseverance.”
Hypomonē is derived from the transliterated Greek “hypomenō”, (Strong’s 5278).
It is a verb and is defined as, “1) to remain. a) to tarry behind. 2) to remain i.e. abide, not recede or flee. a) to preserve: under misfortunes and trials to hold fast to one’s faith in Christ. b) to endure, bear bravely and calmly: ill treatments.”
Hypomenō is derived from both the transliterated Greek “hypo” (Strong’s 5259), which is a primary preposition and means, “by or under”, and the transliterated Greek “menō” (Strong’s 3306) which is a root word verb.
Menō is defined as “1) to remain, abide.
a) in reference to place. 1) to sojourn, tarry. 2) not to depart. a) to continue to be present. b) to be held, kept, continually.
b) in reference to time.1) to continue to be, not to perish, to last, endure. a) of persons, to survive, live.
c) in reference to state or condition. 1) to remain as one, not to become another or different.
2) to wait for, await one.”
May Yeshua our Blessed Hope provide all of us who seek Him with a pure heart the strength to “keep His patience”.
Amen.
a.
“Not subject to wrath”.
One phrase and we extrapolate that “believers” so not go through any or all of the tribulation?
Please read Romans 2:5-11 for the complete working out if not being appointed to wrath.
Next, read Malachi 4.
Lord help us, as you said in Matthew 24:19-20, “But woe to those who are pregnant (newly conceived Christians) and to those who are nursing babies (caring for believers existing on the milk) in those days!”
Finnlly, consider this and I do not write it without accepting the conceqences, His Mercy and Grace.
“If anyone adds to theses things, God will add to him (her) the plagues that are written in this book: and if anyone takes away from the words of this book of this prophecy, ‘God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.”
That is not written in fine print but at the bottom of the last page.
So, wrath is appointed to those “bible scholars” who are believers that are “left behind” when we are already within the last 7 years and the soon coming 3.5 Hebrew calendar years remaing, which are full of wrath appointed to all men according to God’s word, “each one according to his deeds…”
These next few years are going to be woeful.
Blessings.
Please excuse the iPhone – as this typing brings many typos and sloppy editing also “plagues” me. Thank you Lord for Romans 8:1-6.
Please, get under the Armor of Light (Romans 13:12-14) and check out Rev. 12:11 for the key (as in a form of a key to the Kingdom) when overcoming what is coming.
Blessings
hi DJ
Interesting… I never thought of “pregnant” and “nursing” that way before.
I came to understand “pregnant” a few weeks ago – after asking Him “What does that mean?”
He downloaded “unless a man be born again.” Oh! Nicodemus said, “how can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb?”
Next, He brought to my remembrance all the “milk” (1 Corinth 3) and “little children” (1 John 2).
Well, that covers the pregnant and nursing. What about those doing the nursing – what is requires to care (minister) to them and all believers?
Without doing any “research”, I’m reading Hebrews and set my eyes in Heb 5: 12-14.
What is requires is spiritual discernment – Jezebel spirit, Leviathen spirit, and false prophets, “bewitchment” (Galations), and deliverence (spirit of fear – 2 Tim 1:7) and others. Oh, and bitterness (aka Wormwood).
The Lord has me on a meat diet for a reason.
Like that Windy’s commercial of my era “Where’s the beef?”
Well, that is part of the enemy’s strategy and Jesus said “Woe”.
The enemy has been working as wolves and through “misguided pastors (Ezek 34) with this tactic – “give’m milk and watch what happens went the camel crap (the AC rule) hits the fan”.
hi DJ
the pregnant and nursing concept would be a good one for a new post.
would you like to write it?
🙂
Marianne,
Sure I’ll write it out for you to consider.
Next Sunday, I’m “preaching”, which is occupying my time. There are elements within the topic “Armor of Light” that do apply to believers on a milk diet.
So much to much meat, so little time to digest. Seeking HS to focus on essential and digestible in a 40 minute 3 course meal. “Woe!”
I could write out the message for a post and can see the pictures to accompany the posting now, ha!
Al, love ya man. No harm no foul. We each have our gift and assigment. Just wanted to let you and anybody reading to know the frame of reference from
which I’ve been writing.
I can smell wolves like a sheep dog, it is not by sight and good
hearing/reading helps. Not pleasant asuprising many times.
There is more to share, but not on this page. There are birds that carry news and information to local principalites and powers. Sneeky and devious these wolves and minions but “He who is in me is greater than he who is in the world”, Amen!
The final conflict is about to begin. They are a defeated foe. I am looking foward to final Victory in a few short years.
LOL.
I know exactly what you are referring to there DJ.
You have to love that gift of discernment, (even when it goes into hyper-drive and super-sensitivity beyond this earthly realm).
There are “tares” here, and they’ve been watching for years.
Yes they are defeated foe.
As I said, it will all unfold as The Fathers Will and Heart desires.
Keep fighting the good fight my brother.
Be Blessed.
a.
Praise be unto Yeshua the Worthy Lamb. Our Holy and Glorious Savior.
Amen.
Hi DJ,
I pray that you are well.
So who is your above post directed to?
You say above, “One phrase and we extrapolate that “believers” so not go through any or all of the tribulation? Please read Romans 2:5-11 for the complete working out if not being appointed to wrath.”
I believe that the tribulation begins with Yeshua opening the first seal. And that the true wrath possibly occurs after the setting up of the abomination of desolation. I also believe that the faithful and true Assembly or Church, will not be present here on earth for either of the above.
In Malachi 4:5. the Prophet Elijah was John the Baptist. (See Matthew 11:10., which is referring also to Malachi 3:1.)
Who said regarding, “Matthew 24:19-20, “But woe to those who are pregnant (newly conceived Christians) and to those who are nursing babies (caring for believers existing on the milk) in those days!”
I’m confused, (not like that is the first time this has ever happened. lol), but who is your post directed to?
Help a brother out.
Be Blessed.
Praise Yeshua our Holy and Precious Savior. Our Worthy and Blessed Lamb.
Amen.
Al,
The first seal opened Oct 9, 2009.
Second seal began to open December 2010 with “Arab Spring” and continues.
Third seal is opening with economic/currency/debt crisis.
Fig tree lesson (Matthew 24) applies as I wrote in the post way, way up on this page.
I through in Malachi to get your attention. Something new.
I read that chapter as “end of the age and His return” prohetic writing.
Malichi 4:1-3 matches up with end of the age. Verses 4-6 does apply to the spirit of Elijah (and Moses) returning for many days before the end of the age.
Al, I have confronted witches, worshipers of Satan, rebukes Voodoo curses, cast out demons, expelled demons under the Blood of Jesus and by the authority of His name that He graciously gives to His disciples (Mark 16:17-18).
My interpretation of scriptures is not purfect, but I know Him and He is my Lord and Savoir.
Like the writer of Psalms 119:65-88 and 108-112, and Psalms 20 as a believer (relies on, trusts in, covered by the Blood of the new covenant) in Jesus Christ. I pray my vessel is worthy, my interments prepared for His use. Got the fire in the belly, looking forward to putting it all to work for the Kingdom.
I’m preparing for what is coming and not expecting a rapture until the end of the age, being counted among them that “trample the wicked, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet On the day that I do this, says the Lord of hosts” (Malaichi 4:3).
Time to rest before I go out and bind some fithy demon and advance the Kingdom, His will be done.
cool
binding demons is a good thing.
I get the impression there is a lot more demons causing people to do hateful, and evil things. I suppose to many are growing up without love, or parents. Which make it easy for the demons, and Old knobs gang.
Yup. Those are gates that open up to the enemy.
Repent, apply the righteous Blood of
the Lamb of God, kick out the enemy in the name of Jesue and close the gate through the reading of the Word, which is part of renewing of the mind – praying in the Spirit the gate keeper of your soul.
Rev 12:11 – break it down (read Hebrews carefully) and the testimony of Paul to Timothy (2nd) and Peter in his letters.
I strongly suggest Derek Prince books – “War in Heaven, “Secrets of a Prayer Warrior” and “Rules of Engagement” among others.
“Where’s the beef?”
It is found in (“seek and ye will find, knock and it will be opened to you”) within these books (and other
Pearls) – Hebrews, 2 Timothy, and key verses that identy the power of His Blood:
Ephs 1:7, 1 John 1:7, Romans 5:9, Hebrews 13:12, 10:19, 12:15.
Blessings.
DJ my brother,
First, I would never question your Love for the Lord Yeshua, so you certainly don’t have to defend your Faith to me.
So, it is your belief that the “white horse” in Revelation 6:2., is Obama and that the first seal was him receiving the Nobel Peace Prize. Correct?
Well Obama could very well be a candidate for the AC. He is certainly a possibility to consider, (and perhaps if we were to consider him), it would add some clarity as to what is written with 2 Thessalonians 2.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
(The “day shall not come” is referring of course to the “gathering” which will not occur until the apostasy, (which if you were to look around… Hello?). This would mean then that during that time, that the world is aware, (that he has been revealed), of this particular individual. Though not fully aware yet, of his true identity. But where I have a problem is with verses 6 & 7.)
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.
(The above would indicate that “something” (either God the Father, Yeshua the KING, or the Holy Spirit), is restraining or impeding the son of perditions progress, until he is released from these bonds in some way. It is only when this “force of restraint” is taken away, that the following verse is applicable.)
8 And “then shall that Wicked be revealed”, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
(In maintaining the context of what has so far been expressed within the chapter, the “saved” above HAS to be correlated to the “gathering” which in turn, HAS to be associated with “the force of restraint”. So, I can see how Obama could perhaps fulfill the AC criteria, but have difficulty in believing that everything is proceeding full steam ahead. Don’t get me wrong here with that. I am fully aware that I had a Vision that confirmed in my mind that “the time is at hand”!
However, there are a sequence of events that must take place first. And I fully believe that this “gathering” is one of them.)
I agree with you regarding Malachi though. That they are prophetic and are describing the Two Witnesses. However, that doesn’t negate the above having to transpire first.
DJ I am so happy for you that the Lord is utilizing you as His instrument. (I could actually use you around here at the moment. lol. long story.)
He utilized me as well during my own personal experience, (but in healing and bringing others to the faith), and though I have the authority through Yeshua, He has held me back from the casting out of demons etc., leaving me instead, (like Paul), with the knowledge that His grace is sufficient. (My thorn lives directly above me, and we have just had our 3rd. suicide in less than 2 1/2 years in my building.)
BTW, that is an interesting concept regarding “pregnant & nursing”, and with scripture having duplicity of meaning, it could very well be applicable.
Have you ever read any of the Apocrypha? 2 Esdras 5:1-8., is interesting. I believe that when Uriel is describing the end times here, that verse 1 is referring to the “gathering”, and that verse 8 could also be be referring to the “woe” of the pregnant during that time.
1 Nevertheless as coming the tokens, behold, the days shall come, that they which dwell upon earth shall be taken in a great number, and the way of truth shall be hidden, and the land shall be barren of faith.
2 But iniquity shall be increased above that which now thou seest, or that thou hast heard long ago.
3 And the land, that thou seest now to have root, shalt thou see wasted suddenly.
4 But if the most High grant thee to live, thou shalt see after the third trumpet that the sun shall suddenly shine again in the night, and the moon thrice in the day:
5 And blood shall drop out of wood, and the stone shall give his voice, and the people shall be troubled:
6 And even he shall rule, whom they look not for that dwell upon the earth, and the fowls shall take their flight away together:
7 And the Sodomitish sea shall cast out fish, and make a noise in the night, which many have not known: but they shall all hear the voice thereof.
8 There shall be a confusion also in many places, and the fire shall be oft sent out again, and the wild beasts shall change their places, and menstruous women shall bring forth monsters:
Nonetheless, what I did conclude from my personal experience is, that God the Father is Sovereign and in control. And though I continue within my studies, whether they be right or wrong, my responsibilities as His follower are to Love others as He has Loved us, to abide in Him with a pure and seeking heart, to walk in the Spirit and persevere in Faith, and to be obedient to His voice whenever I hear it. (Along with plenty of 1 John 1:9.)
That is my prayer for You and for all of my brothers and sisters to follow, with the hopes of standing before Him unashamed and without spot or blemish.
Everything is predetermined, and the desires of the Fathers heart will be fulfilled.
Be Blessed.
a.
Praise Yeshua our Precious and Holy Savior. Our Blessed and Glorious KING of kings and LORD of lords.
Amen.
Al, please contact Marianne – she can give you my email address.
You can send me more of your resources that I would enjoy reading.
I’ll send you my testimony and we can exchange longer messages until that communication is taken away sometime next year (just an educated guess).
Blessings
Oh, that part about women in the above verses – Jezebel spirit. It’s wichcraft at is best – rebellion, control and a side of anger with viniger
Okay DJ
Sure, we can share email address’s.
The thing is though, I am pretty sure that they already have access to my email account, (and more than likely many others too).
It may sound paranoid, but I am pretty sure that it has something to do with the file assembly “sortkey nlp.”
Any way’s, I give Marianne permission to hand over my email addy to you.
You can contact me anytime you like brother.
Be Blessed.
a.
Praise Yeshua our Blessed Hope and Holy Savior.
Amen.
STILL HOPE for this weekend!!!
Believe it or not, I still see amazing spans/ONE more scenario (wish I didn’t)……………so I’m still speculating; so read or delete. I send these letters to about 7 of the most admired prophecy sites/true watchers……people who glean/picking up one useful fact, then dismissing the rest….people who have not sunk down into natural scofferism (only Christians scoff, you know; for non-believers don’t believe any of it anyway). Comments are useless because maybe just ONE reader out of the 7 sites wants to learn just ONE more thing. Speculation hurts no one.
280 days (Church’s spiritual gestation period) spans SUCCOTH, 2011 (Oct 13) to the SIGNING, Thurs, July 19, Tammuz 29. This 280 is the Church’s spiritual gestation period.
150 + 22 days (earth tilt #) is Thurs, July 19. The 150 days (as Noah in ark) start at Jan 29, 2012, end of the 1 solar yr warning (Jer 51:46) from Jan 29, 2011, the Temple Mt UFO (Rev 11 angelic measuring of Temple area).
53 days is from SHAVUOT, 2012 to the Signing, July 19. (The 53 will ‘cancel,’ so in a sense the trib ‘begins’ on Shavuot’ after all).
The 150 days is the 5 mths delay as Noah in Ark til exit, and the +22 (which will minus at the Return) ends at the probable July 19th Signing. The 53 is the 53 days of judgment on THIS side of the trib (in GRACE) matching the 53 on the post-Return side of the trib (in JUDGMENT). 75-22 = 53. The two 53’s will ‘cancel each other out.’ The 75 days is the 30 days mourning over Jesus + 45 days Judg of the Nations.
Three days after the signing (a.c. UNrevealed for 3 days to make up for the 3 mid-trib ‘uncounted’ days) is the RAPTURE, SUNDAY, July 22. July 22 is LEO 1, ‘LION of JUDAH,’ 12th sign of the Mazzarot (#12 = perf gov’t/anger of Jesus). During the Age of Grace, Jesus has been as a LAMB; but at trib start He will be as a LION as He lashes out in anger.
Jan 6 is really DEC 24 due to the 12-day calendar discrepancy, and Dec 24 was the original KISLEV 24, Creation Day, the 8th Feast (present-day Hanukkah/Temple Dedic) with the count starting on the 8th day of the 8th Feast (Tevet 1-2, Jesus’ conception anniv because +280 days gestation is TISHREI 15, His Birth). Remember that the 8th Feast was not one of the commanded SEVEN Feasts because it deals w/: immaculate, perfection, Heaven, newness, OUT of the earth’s system of 7. Jesus’ conception was the 8th Day of the 8th Feast….the 8th Day from Kislev 24…..i.e. Tevet 1-2…..then +280 = Succoth.
Well, the mid trib…..1260 past signing…. is Sunday, Tevet 24 (Jan 3, 2016) when the a.c. satanically ‘RISES’ and kills Elij and Moses w/ his new, supernatural, satanic power. Three days later (Elij & Moses RISE) is JAN 6, 2016. Jan 6, 2016 is REALLY DEC 24, 2015, the original solar date of KISLEV 24, which was also DEC 24 originally. The difference between Jan 6 and Dec 24 is 12 days, the 12-day discrepancy in our present calendar. The Orthodox Church still celebrates Christmas on Jan 6, whereas our Christmas is Dec 24-25. Kislev 24 was still at its original point on the calendar when the Hag 2 Temple was dedicated; and Kislev 24 (original) is the point in the trib when the tumult of the Haggai 2, Kislev 24 verses will occur. After all, up to the time Elijah & Moses rise, life is still livable on earth since gifts will be exchanged in celebration of their death. When they rise on Jan 6 (which is really Dec 24), all Hell breaks loose/true start of GREAT TRIB.
The END of the trib (53 days past the RETURN as the 75-22 days straightening of earth is considered) is AUGUST 5, VIRGO 5 and plus 360 days (the first post-trib PERFECT year) will be VIRGO 1, AUGUST 1, AV 1….2020. In other words, it will take the passing of the first 360-day perfect yr for the 2 calendars and the Mazzarot (360 days each) to finally synchronize perfectly.
Six days past the Rapture is AV 9 (FAST DAY to joy), the Divine Victory in the mts of Israel, plus exactly 7 months (210-211 days) of burying bodies by Dead Sea and bldg 3rd Temple in Jerusalem reaches PURIM, 2013, the start of the 2300 days of Temple Desecration/Dan 8:13-13 ending at the RETURN, Thurs, June 13, 2019 (2520 past SIGNING/1260 past mid trib).
The RAPTURE, according to the above scenario, is AV 3 (perhaps 1 meaning of “third day”) and the end of the trib w/ the -22 considered is AV 4. Av 3 to Av 4 is ONE DAY, the probable ‘DAY of the LORD’…….a ‘day’ that will likely NOT BE COUNTED.
The Mid-trib, SUNDAY, Jan 3, 2016, when the a.c. satanically ‘RISES’ is TEVET 24 and when one projects the 22-day ‘loss,’ then that day is TEVET 1-2, the Jewish anniv of the 8th day of the 8th Feast/Jesus’ conception Jewish anniv.
Sundays are again all across the board and every event of Biblical significance for the Church (Perfection at Creation /Creation count start/Palm Sunday/Resurrection Sunday/Pentecost) occurred on a SUNDAY; thus a SUNDAY Rapture is likely as well. After all, since the Resurrection, Sunday was no longer just a FIRST day, but an EIGHTH Day.
So, you see that there is still something to consider…..J.H.
‘
Hi Jan,
Good to see you’re still here.
I was afraid that maybe the only ones who will get raptured are those who are smart enough to figure out when it was going to happen. If that is true, you might be the only one.
But I have learned one thing for sure from you. That given all the possible variables, it is possible to justify pretty much any day from here to eternity as the day of the rapture.
But even If I did believe in the rapture I still have two big problems with your calculations. They are based on a UFO sighting and an imaginary peace plan that you claim to know about but to the rest of the world is still a secret.
I just need more proof before I can believe in any off-the-wall prophecy that is so complex, difficult to understand and impossible to prove. But of course it is always fun to speculate – to try to solve one of the greatest puzzles of all time. And while there are many clues, it is still too early to know anything definite. Add to that all the bogus clues and the false prophets who tout them and you’ve got a big mess.
But I’m guessing a time will come and the pieces will finally all fall into place for you.
I’m also guessing that day won’t be Sunday.
🙂
Al,
Your comment on Isaiah 54 being the covenant of Daniel’s 70 weeks is ludicrous. Other than the word covenant at the end, it bears no semblance to Daniel. You are grasping at straws.
alienated,
I never said all of Daniel’s prophecies have been fulfilled. But the 70 weeks is toast.
The abomination of desolation actually has 3 fulfillments with the final one still to come. It is a separate prophecy however.
Leatherneck,
Yes, the next pope will be the False Prophet also known as the lawless one. The Holy Roman Empire was the first beast of Revelation and the Vatican was the second, and the pope is the image of the beast and the woman who rides the beast is the Roman Catholic Church. So naturally, the False Prophet will be the head of the apostate church. None of this is rocket science and was declared by Martin Luther and most of the early reformation leaders. The Catholic church responded with contrary “futurist” doctrines which until recently were rejected by the protestant churches, but they now embrace them. Go figure.
As far as hell, I believe what Jesus believed and all Jews have always believed – there is no hell. It was the invention of the Catholic church in the middle ages. I just watched a History channel program on Hell and they agreed, in much detail. If Jesus decided to create hell as part of the new covenant (the one of Daniel’s 70 weeks), He would have explained the whole deal to His disciples and made it very clear for them to teach it to their churches. But they did not. Once again, it takes a lot of inferences and assumptions to try to prove that hell is real, but they only work If you really, really want to believe in hell. So be my guest.
Bless, boys.
The false prophet is not the lawless one.
Hell – Mark 9:43-48, Matthew 5:22, and 25:41. I do not see any hoops. Just plain, and simple teaching about hell.
What is your religion called, so I can look it up.
Leatherneck,
I suspect that he gets a significant amount of his theology from the T.V.?
What would scripture say regarding hell?
“שְׁאוֹל” in Hebrew, transliterated as “shĕ’owl”, (Strong’s 7585) is defined as, “1) sheol, underworld, grave, hell, pit. a) the underworld. b) Sheol – the OT designation for the abode of the dead. 1) place of no return. 2) without praise of God. 3) wicked sent there for punishment. 4) righteous not abandoned to it. 5) of the place of exile (fig). 6) of extreme degradation in sin.”
Shĕ’owl is translated into grave 31 times, hell 31 times and pit 3.
In the New Testament we have the Greek “γέεννα”, transliterated as “geenna”, (Strong’s 1067).
It is referring to the place of the future punishment call “Gehenna” or “Gehenna of fire”. This was originally the valley of Hinnom, south of Jerusalem, where the filth and dead animals of the city were cast out and burned; a fit symbol of the wicked and their future destruction.” It has been translated as “hell” 9 times.
We also have the Greek “ᾅδης”, transliterated as “hadēs”, (Strong’s 86). It has been translated as “hell” 10 times and grave once.
As well there is the Greek “ταρταρόω”, transliterated as “tartaroō”, (Strong’s 5020). It is defined as “1) the name of the subterranean region, doleful and dark, regarded by the ancient Greeks as the abode of the wicked dead, where they suffer punishment for their evil deeds; it answers to Gehenna of the Jews.
2) to thrust down to Tartarus, to hold captive in Tartarus.”
It has been translated into “cast down to hell” once.
Then we have “λίμνην τοῦ πυρὸς καὶ θείου ὅπου” or the “lake of fire and brimstone” that is recorded in Revelation 19:20 & 20:10.
Whatever you want to call it, Yeshua had to “descend” there when He died for our sins, (Ephesians 4:9,10.).
So it obviously exists, and is a place that one does not want to end up in.
And you are right of course Leatherneck, the false prophet is never referred to as the “lawless one”. Perhaps he is getting his T.V. shows mixed up?
May You and your family be Blessed Mark.
Praise be to our Lord Yeshua. Our Holy and Worthy Lamb.
Amen.
His type of Christianty is called by a name. I can not remember it. But, he at least believes in Jesus. I hope that is enough.
If you don´t bleleive in hell you are not Christian!
a,
You must remember, The King James bible and concordances were written bible people who firmly believed in hellfire and brimstone. Plus they wanted to separate themselves from Judaism, in which Sheol simply means the grave. So If you believe in hell, then you must also believe in purgatory and indulgences as they all go together in one package.
Adam, I know you do, but what about everyone else?
Anyone care to comment?
I’m guessing no hell is too Jewish and purgatory is too catholic.
Nothing like a good compromise eh?
P.S. There are many Christian denominations that don’t believe in heaven/hell for the dead but that they sleep until the resurrection. Otherwise, there can be no resurrection If the dead are not really in the grave (sheol).
And tell me this; Where is hell. What does it look like? Are there flames and does the devil live there and dress up in a red suit and carry a pitchfork? How long do the lost stay there? Can’t be eternity since in Revelation it says that death and hell are thrown into the lake of fire? How does that even work?
What you know of hell comes from Dante’s inferno and Catholic church doctrines and painters and writers of the day. None of it comes from the bible, only the word sheol incorrectly translated as hell.
That’s all you got. More “traditions of man” Jesus warned about.
Sorry, I’m not buying it.
And as for the comment of me getting all my information from TV, it seems most everyone gets their prophecy from Jack Van Impe who wrote the screenplay for the “Left Behind” movie so you shouldn’t be pointing fingers. After all, Marianne has entire blogs on Nibiru, and all of her info came from idiot YouTubers. I don’t see you putting her in her place for that.
So please don’t be hypocritical.
James, what about the rest of my post. Is Mark not correct in writing about hell. Matthew?
It is my understanding hell is where G-d placed the fallen Angels who had offspring with human women. Lusifer has respite until judgement day, and does not rule in hell once he is sent there.
I think Jack Van Impi is in the G-d business, and the Universal Church has brought paganism into Christianty.
Anyway, as long as we all believe Christ, the word made flesh, died for our sins, we should not have to worry about anything but our rewards in heaven.
hell = fire
matt 5:22
matt 18:9
mark 9:43
mark 9:45
mark 9:47
rev 20:14
I also go my impression of nibiru from someone who say it through the Hubble telescope, before the access was denied to the public.
James,
(Rats I wish that I had one of those buzzers that they use on game shows for incorrect answers…. but alas I don’t.)
So lets just pretend shall we, “EEEEEEEEEEEEEET” That answer is incorrect.
I do not believe in either Purgatory or Indulgences, and that would be another incorrect assumption on your part.
As I said above, “Whatever you want to call it, Yeshua had to “descend” there when He died for our sins, (Ephesians 4:9,10.). And, the archangel Michael had to contend, (decide a dispute), with satan regarding the body of Moses after his death too. (Jude 1:9.).
So it is clearly a place that exists. Yeshua Himself spoke about it. This is another of those numerous times where we either believe you or Him.
Where you say, “There are many Christian denominations that don’t believe in heaven/hell for the dead but that they sleep until the resurrection. Otherwise, there can be no resurrection If the dead are not really in the grave (sheol).”
Though I have never attended a Church, (for more than a couple of services), or belonged to any particular Denomination, I once held that view myself.
However, it was through deep prayer, sincerity of heart and the willingness to change what I happened to believe, (rather than having the attitude of a “know it all”), that I was led to understand my error regarding that subject.
To provide an answer to some of your questions;
Where is hell?…….. Who Cares, God knows!
What does it look like?……. Who Cares, God knows!
Are there flames and does the devil live there and dress up in a red suit and carry a pitchfork?…… Let us know the next time that you sit down with him!
How long do the lost stay there?……. Who Cares, God Knows!
Then you say, “What you know of hell comes from Dante’s inferno and Catholic church doctrines and painters and writers of the day. None of it comes from the bible, only the word sheol incorrectly translated as hell.”
“EEEEEEEEEEEEEET” again. That answer is incorrect.
Everything that I substantiate is solely from the Bible, and from the original text, script and definitions.
So don’t buy it as you say, (though I suspect that with the mark that your gonna have you could). lol.
Though I don’t think that it is gonna help you much, maybe you should carry some sun-screen with you at all times.
Read what Yeshua said regarding the place in Luke 16:19-31.
a.
VERY POSSIBLE RAPTURE TUESDAY
If you care to ponder this subject anymore, try to read the following for the ‘fun’ of it. I know you’ll think it nonsense anyway; but EVERYTHING FITS and you might see something worth considering. Here are the accompanying facts IF the Rapture is Tuesday (3rd day/wedding day), July 24 (minus the details):
1-yr warning Jan 29, 2011 to Jan 29, 2012 (1 solar yr/Jer 51:46).
FIVE mths (delay of Noah’s day was 150 post-flood days in Ark, our Greg calendar=152 days) Jan 29, 2012 to June 29 and
plus 22 (will minus) is the July 21 SATURDAY SIGNING/a.c. unrevealed til after the “Restrainer is taken out of the way.” July 21, Saturday, is AV 2, Leo 1/Lion of Judah/12th sign….beginning of 2520-day trib year 5772.
Three days later (to make up for the -3 at mid-trib) is TUESDAY, Av 5, July 24, presumed RAPTURE.
AV 5 Rapture is exactly 280 days (gestation of the Church) from the LAST DAY/LAST TRUMP of the LAST FEAST (Tish 21, 2011). AV 5 is also the End of the trib (w/ the minus 22 considered), 280 days from Tishrei 21, 2018 (gestation of the Remnant) as well. The Church & the Remnant are Christ’s BODY and require a ‘gestation’ period just as Jesus did.
Mid trib is SATURDAY, Jan 3, 2016 (a.c. stops sacrif’s, into Temple, killed) and sataically ‘RISES’ 3 days later on TUESDAY, TEVET 24, 2016, JAN 5 (true Orthod Christmas) which is really DEC 24, 2015 (12 days calendar discrepancy) which was the original KISLEV 24 of HAG 2 as well, start of the horrendous GREAT TRIB as reviewed in Hag 2. TUESDAY, Jan 5, 2016 minus the projected 22+ days will revert back to TEVET 1-2, the concep anniv of Jesus/anniv of the 8th Day of the 8th Feast/8th Day of Creation anniv. This present-day 8th Feast is Hanukkah.
Divine Victory in mts of Israel is FAST of AV 9 (July 28), “turned to joy.” Add 213 days (7 Greg mths bury bodies/bldg 3rd Temple) to arrive at Feb 26, 2013, start of the 2300 days of Temple Worship (Dan 8) ending at the RETURN, Sat, June 15, 2019, 5779, GEMINI 24 (10th sign/twins walking in harmony/888), 2520 days after Sat Signing, July 21, 2012.
Av 5 is the end of the trib (w/ the -22); and Av 5 will also be Aug 5 & Virgo 5 in the Millennium…..and plus 360 days (1st perfect, Millennial yr) will be Av 1, Aug 1, Virgo 1, 2020 (first day of the first Mazzarot sign).
Sat Signing, July 21, 2012 (Leo 1) plus 2550 days (as the 2550 yrs from 583 B.C. Temple Destruc to 1967) is Cancer 24, 2019 which is 30 days after the RETURN. Cancer is the 11th sign/judgment of the Nations by Jesus/888.
So TUESDAY looks very good and EVERYTHING fits before/during/after………J.H.
Tuesday. Really?
Well I just hope all the pieces fit way better than the last six tries.
Do you use a special computer program for these calculations or do you crunch all the numbers yourself? It looks like an awful lot of work and it must take a huge amount of time and resources on your part. I commend you for all the effort but I still think you should put more effort into the signs involved.
I’m not sure what version of prophecy you believe, but If you buy into the “Left Behind” scenario, you are missing a lot of stuff. Such as the New World Order which the Antichrist must take charge of when he brokers the peace plan. All you have is a UFO sighting and a secret pact that you have no proof whatsoever of.
The rest is just mumbo-jumbo, at least to me.
So let’s see what happens on Tuesday. I’ve got nothing but time. 🙂
What is your problem? The rapture can happen right now. Because, only G-d the Father knows when it is going to happen. That is what is stated in the Bible.
You give Christianity a bad name when you state the day. How many times is this now for you?
I’m siding with James on this one.
Interesting observation and calculation.
Have you noticed the jet stream lately? It does not seem to be ” streaming” like a river of air West to East. It is more jagged and weather systems moving South / North some weeks.
These large and frequent earth quakes (5.0+), which have increased over the past several years – I expect more frequency and higher magnitude. There many “great” earth quakes to come during the last 360 x 3.5.
Read somewhere that there is a pole shift occurring – degree of tilt is less, just slightly.
Worth keeping an eye on along with the political, religious, and monitary changes.
It will not be long until the angles hold back the
Hi DJ,
Glad to see someone is on my side about a secret rapture.
However, I can’t accept your assumption that Obama’s Nobel prize was some kind of peace pact that fits the 70th week of Daniel/ Of course, I don’t believe in the last week of Daniel as end-time prophecy, but to say we are almost 3 years into the tribulation and yet there are no obvious signs of prophetic fulfilment and nothing else in plain sight as required in the popular scenario. As I said, I don’t think any of this stuff will ever happen, but If it is correct, I would expect more than what you are showing us before I could get on board.
So what all do you expect to happen in the near future, other than weather and earthquakes which are always to be expected and prove nothing.
Any specifics would give us all a better handle on what to expect and things to look for.
Thanks.
Al,
Regarding the “second coming”, here is my understanding though a selection of verses – of course
knowing that the 7 years of Daniel’s time line, the fig tree lesson (Matthew 24; 1947+70), the 120th Jubelee is underway (1967 + 50) and my favorite sign (Rev 12:1-5) – these are the evidence that “the end of the age” is upon us.
The virgins are still sleeping, but the coffee is brewing.
The ungodly Mayan calendar figured it out from a source not of God – the dark side knows the end of this age starts soon, preparing for the last 360 x 3.5. The last days of this age begins shortly after Dec 2012 but closer to the last day of winter but before Sabbath/Passover.
Where’s the cream and sugar for all that brewing coffee?
Key verse- “And he who endures to the end shall be saved” (Matthew 24:13).
Endures what?
What end?
Saved?
Endures what? Endures tribulation of those days.
“Then, (key point – “after the tribulation of those days”, which is the period we are in now and about to become “Great”), the Son of Man will appear in heaven…they will see…coming on the clouds of heaven (heavenly hosts) with power and great glory (Light)” (Matthew 24:30).
What end? The end of the age.
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days (see verse 21), the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give light; the stars fall from heaven and the powers of heaven (powers as in demonic in the second heaven) will be shaken” (Matthew 24:29).
The above would be the end of this age and the beginning of the Millennial age when He returns and reigns on earth.
The Mayan’s and their dark/evil brethren don’t have a calendar for that age.
Saved?
“And He will (2 Thess 1:7) send angles with a great sound (Rev 11:15-19) and they will gather together (aka “rapture”) His elect (2 Thess 2:13-17) from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the next (1 Thess 4:15-17).
We are called sons of the light and sons of the day (moral light not immoral darkness) with Faith (in the Blood of Righteousness), and Love (unconditional, agape towards one another) and as a helmet the Hope of our salvation (eternal glory, peace and joy in the Spirit).
Conclusion:
I think that the sons of light are not going to experience the days immediately after the Great Tribulation. We are gathered together – up to meet Him as He returns.
I know this – “We overcome him (AC during the last 360 x 3.5) by the Blood of the Lamb and by the word of our testimony, and we do not love our lives (the world or the things of the world by taking the AC’s mark) to the point of death” (Rev 12:11).
For Paul and me – “to live is Christ (walking in the Light) and to die is gain..” (Philippians 1:21-23).
“And the Spirit and the bride say, ‘Come!’ And let him who hears say, ‘Come!’ And he who thirsts come, Whoever desires, let him take the water of life freely” (Rev 22:19).
The birth pangs (as in childbirthing contractions) are getting closer and closer….thus the frequent set dates. I don’t MAKE UP the dates; the spans are just THERE. Plus I only notify a few prophecy sites, NOT the general public; so how would my letters give Christianity a bad name? Jesus reprimanded the Pharisees for NOT knowing the time of His first coming. Well, WHO is looking closely at His Coming now? There are SO many signs that it’s almost inhuman to ignore the subject of the Rapture. Why would God state specific numbers like 1260, 1260, 1260, 1290,1335, 7 mths, 7 yrs….etc; and why does the Great Pyramid have a cryptic timeline of 5772 to 5779 with its ht w/ the capstone being 5779 and the the temp of the sun being 5779 Kelvin as well? God said in Isa 19:19-20 that the monument in the midst of Egypt would be a great testimony to God with all its amazing measurements…….a miniature earth w/ respect to ht, wt, density..etc. And why did Job challenge the reader, “Who can understand the Mazzarot?”….meaning a human would try to determine the significance of those 12 amazing signs (Gospel Story in the Stars). I was the fastest typist in hi-school and I’m a very fast piano player…..and it’s NOTHING for me to WHIP out these letters……….10 min most! Don’t let the letters BOTHER you so much.
James,
Signs – there were only a few tangible signs given by Jesus. The two that are clear: Matthew 24:15 and fig tree lesson. You discount fig tree as presented: command goes forth Nov 1947 + generation of 70 years (Psalms 90:10) = 2017 as the end of the age. But there is a Hebrew calendar adjustment that could bring that back to 2016.
The other signs are John’s 4 seals in Revelation 6. Those I’ve presented – still you don’t accept the evidence as applicable.
Then there is the heavenly sign of Rev 12:1-5, which you discount, as another sign. Clearly seen, not recognized by most.
In order for the AC to hit the ground running ( Matthew 24:15), when the “Cry” is heard -as 5 unwise virgins run for oil, some run for bunkers in Missouri or Montana, other’s hearts fail them – there needs to be a economic/monitory shift to permit greater international control between now and then.
This matches up with the 3rd seal. The EU/euro crisis is the cover story of the action within credit/debt, currency stability, national sovereignty, banking/commerce and the old buy/sell transaction.
The chip (mark in body) is ready for implementation and implantation. The data systems are ready.
I expected this currency/economic shift to occur by now, but there is resistance to change at all levels. Who likes to give up power? The currency/banking/economic shift will take place before the end of this year. 1929 x 3 level of event. Crisis brings change and this requires a big crisis.
Need a False Prophet to emerge in the next 8 months. A new Pope? But not a TV evangelist.
As for the 2 witnesses – I suspect early next year.
One more thing – Damascus must be flattened per prophecy and that could be an outcome
of a war developing now.
Interesting date coming next weekend. July 28 – date the Temple was destroyed twice (Babylonians and Romans). Could be a date to set the record straight, which could take care of the Temple mount dilemma.
I am expecting Temple worship to be established so the AC can perform as required (Matthew 24:15). The Hebrew religious leaders have what is needed – just need to construct what is required to conduct worship.
Time for church services…
James – please read Acts 8. Something about bitterness.
DJ and All,
The following are some things that I came across in 2008, following our economic crash. DJ is the one who seems to be discussing this more than anyone else and is the reason I addressed this to him specifically.
I believe that there are at least four events, I am not saying there are not more, which portrays what I perceive to be a clear path to our economic demise. I am just going to give the information without any commentary. I would like to know what any of you might think concerning this and why, even if you think it is foolishness. I will give my understanding of all this after a brief period, giving anyone who cares to respond time to do so.
These are the four events that I see as pivotal for the undoing of the US economy:
The Federal Reserve Act- passed and signed into law on Dec 23, 1913 which is the Hebrew date of Kislev 24-first day of Chanukah.
It is pretty much agreed upon that there have been 3 major stock crashes since the Dow Jones Industrial Average has been in existence. They are as follows: October of 1929; Sept-Oct of 1987; Sept-Oct of 2008.
The following are the dates of the Feast of Trumpets and Yom Kippur for the dates above:
1929-Feast of Trumpets (Tishrei 1-2)=Oct 5-6 (two day feast) Yom Kippur (Tishrei 10)=Oct 14
1987-Feast of Trumpets (Tishrei 1-2)=Sept 24-25 (two day feast) Yom Kippur (Tishrei 10)=Oct 3
2008-Feast of Trumpets (Tishrei 1-2)=Sept 30-Oct 1 (two day feast) Yom Kippur (Tishrei 10)=Oct 9
The information concerning 2008 I learned from others, which peaked my curiosity about the other economic crashes of 1987 and 1929 and the debacle of 1913.
The following links are to DJIA charts for the years listed above. Run the cursor over the charts and find the dates of the Feasts and notice the patterns that form. If you are not serious to understand these things, or not willing to invest a little time, don’t bother. It will be wasted on you.
One thing to remember, in the Hebrew language there is no word for “coincidence”. It is not a kosher thought that Yah’s people are left in the hands of randomness (non-order; non-coherence). Also, bear in mind that each new day begins the evening before. For example, Feast of Trumpets in 1929 actually begins in the evening (at dark) of Oct 4th and ends in the evening (at dark) of Oct 6th.
Another interesting side note; there has been a saying with those who trade in stocks which says “to buy on Feast of Trumpets and sell on Yom Kippur.” Would have worked perfectly in 1929 and 1987, but something changed in 2008 (hint). Another interesting fact is that the largest drop on the DJIA took place on Sept 29th of 2008 (777.68 point drop) which was Erev Feast of Trumpets.
I would also like to say that I am very aware of all the different scenarios that seem to come together so well in end time theology making everything even more confusing. I have commented on this in the past. I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. Just looking for some “constructive” feedback.
Be Blessed
http://investing.money.msn.com/investments/stock-charts/?compsyms=&D4=1&DD=1&D5=0&DCS=2&MA0=256&MA1=0&CP=1&C5=12&C5D=31&C6=1928&C7=12&C7D=31&C8=1929&C9=-1&CF=0&D7=&D6=&showchartbt=Redraw+chart&PT=7&symbol=%24us%3AINDU&SZ=0&nocookie=1
http://investing.money.msn.com/investments/stock-charts/?compsyms=&D4=1&DD=1&D5=0&DCS=2&MA0=256&MA1=0&CP=1&C5=12&C5D=31&C6=1986&C7=12&C7D=31&C8=1987&C9=-1&CF=0&D7=&D6=&showchartbt=Redraw+chart&PT=7&symbol=%24us%3AINDU&SZ=0&nocookie=1
http://investing.money.msn.com/investments/stock-charts/?compsyms=&D4=1&DD=1&D5=0&DCS=2&MA0=256&MA1=0&CP=1&C5=12&C5D=31&C6=2007&C7=12&C7D=31&C8=2008&C9=-1&CF=0&D7=&D6=&showchartbt=Redraw+chart&PT=7&symbol=%24us%3AINDU&SZ=0&nocookie=1
DJ,
Sorry If I sound bitter but I have been listening to people like Jack Van Impe for over 30 years, waiting patiently for end time events to unfold. I still watch him every week, including this morning, and even he is not seeing the things you are, and he has writtens dozens of books and DVD’s on this subject and he even wroe the screenplay for the “Left Behind” movie, so If anyone should catch the signs it would be him, but so far nothing but slight hints – like they made a chip and they have computers to use it.
Now you are calling for many major changes to the world and its governments some by year’s end, and the two witnesses by next spring. So you will soon be proven either a true or false prophet by then. We shall see.
But here is one of my problems with your “signs”. You say the Arab spring is the 2nd horseman, yet the first horseman (the false prophet) has not yet appeared, as you admitted. Also it says that the second horse kills a third part of mankind – clearly a nuclear world war 3. The Arab spring is over with fewer than 10,000 dead. It hardly fits the prophecy.
And where is the famine (3rd horse) and pestilences (4th horse) that are to follow the world war and take another half of the population?
Sorry, but you are just way too early in your calculations. We are all anxious for the return of our savior and there is a human tendency to try to make it happen sooner rather than later, so we find all sorts of little events here and there and try to weave it into our interpretation. Some of the events you call for will happen. Others will not.
I do not discount the fig tree prophecy – we are the generation that will live to see his return. I just don’t agree that it means he will be back in exactly 70 years. There is no definite length for an official generation in the bible. There are several numbers that people use and some use averages between two or more. The second coming was predicted 30 years ago when most people thought a generation was 40 years, but when that didn’t works, they made adjustments – such as using the year Israel regained control of Jerusalem but now that date has passed, so more adjustments are needed. You can tweak the prophecy to death (a la Jan) and I guess If you do it long enough, eventually you will be correct.
So God bless you for your efforts – we must all remain vigilant. I just wish your proof had more teeth to it. In fact, I doubt that anyone else shares your belief or at least they won’t be brave enough to stand up and prophesy with you. Hoping is not the same as being sure.
So maybe I’ll be the only one to stand up and say this, but I am absolutely sure you are wrong. You have failed to convince me of your points. So I will leave this discussion to others who agree with your interpretation but are unsure of your timeline.
Thanks for the lively discussion though.
Bless.
James,
Bitterness solution is forgiveness and prayer. Pray for those who teach, promote/sell materials that add or take away from what is written. It is one thing to discuss and ponder (with believers and the Lord) BUT it is another to profit and lead the flock astray (Rev. 22:18-19). Those that fit the text, well – they must be around to experience it, right?
One more reason why I believe and think – the Lord’s return is at the of the age. Therefore, there is no Pre-Trib or mid-Trib “rapture”.
I accept the judgement of the Lord as written. Why? That is too long a story – my confidence is “in the Lord”.
I’m praying for you James – as in Paul’s prayers (Colossians 1:9-14 and Ephs 1:17-23)
The Lord loves you and you are seeking Truth. So, I expect we meet in Glory when this is all over.
So, get this straight – generation is found clearly in the Word (Psalms 90:10).
Jesus would not have told us a parable without hiding the Pearl within the Word.
Hal and the “rapture” brethren know this to be true, but may be contemplating “He is delaying”, “there is no peace treaty yet” or “that would be ‘date setting'”or “my profits would drop if I changed from a Pre-Tribber and I’d be out of the spotlight”.
I ask the Lord 2 years ago to lead me to Truth asking nothing about “rapture” as I’d been taught for 40 years. My request was, “I want to know about the end of the age and Your return. I want the Truth, please.
I also asked about demons and deliverance (Mark 16:17-18). He taught and led me to experience all of that too.
So, if He led me to cast out demons, in His Name, rebuke Voodoo curses in His Name and confront wolves in sheep’s clothing and more during the past 2 years – He is teaching me what I ask to learn and more. Savvy?
I suggest you pray, asking Father God – in the name of Jesus – to shine the Light of Heaven upon you.
“Seek and you will find (need a light?).
“Knock (fervently, often) and it (the Word) will be open to you.”
Read those prayers written by Paul as if you are asking for yourself.
Seal one opened on Oct 9, 2009 – Feasts of Tabernacles. Do the math. 7 x 360 / 2.
All those other signs fit the timeline.
You want the details – Danielstimeline has it. I found that presentation after The Lord taught me a few things. Dewy got his lessons from the same Teacher.
Time is short, the coffee is brewing and those virgins are sleeping – I need to find the cream and sugar.
Blessings
Haz veh Halilah!!!!!!! RAPTURE on Av 6, Wednesday, July 25th is better than Tuesday!!!…..There’s no time to explain!!!!….and I can hardly speak!!!!!!!….w/ the 72 hrs beginning Monday evening (California time). If we are still here late Wednesday, put me into the category of the ‘you know who’s’…..J.H.
Hi Jan,
Come on buddy….. “explain”……. what did ya find that has you so giddy?
BTW, if the Lord finds me worthy, Wednesday is just fine with me.
Praise Yeshua our Holy and precious Savior and glorious Hope.
Amen.
Hey, don’t encourage him! I have to read his posts and I end up with a headache every time I try to make sense out of them.
Here are a few prophesies from me:
I predict:
1. There will be no rapture today (Tues).
2. There will be no rapture next Wednesday.
3. There will be no rapture, ever.
4. Jan will find yet another promising date beyond next Wednesday.
Oh yeah, Nibiru is just a hoax.
So there…
James,
What happened to the thief on the cross? How do you explain that?
Malia,
The verse about the thief on the cross is often misunderstood and used as “proof” that we go directly to heaven when we die. The problem comes from the comma the translators added to the verse after the word you.
Here is the verse according to King James:
“Verily I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.“ (Note: “Paradise” not “Heaven.”
But there was no punctuation in the original text. So the verse should be translated more like this,
“Dude, I’m telling you right now, you’re gonna be with me in paradise.“ (No time frame indicated.)
So which way makes the most sense?
If you decide to take the King James literally, the thief would have risen to heaven on the same day Jesus spoke the words, the Wednesday of the crucifixion, near the very end of the day (sunset).
But we know Christ spent 3 days and 3 nights dead in the tomb. He then arose and spent 40 days on earth before ascending to heaven. He was never in heaven that Wednesday.
Also, the theif more than likely did not die before sunset that day. In fact, most condemned men spent days on the cross before dying, often being let down at night. Their deaths were used to put the fear of Rome into the population so they liked to drag it on for as long as possible.
So If what you say is true then Jesus lied, either about being in the tomb for 3 days or to the thief. That would be a real shame, going His whole life without sinning, then blowing it at the last miinute. Shucks!
But the main point here is that the thief was never raptured. He did not escape death on the cross by being whisked to heaven, disappearing magically leaving only his robes behind. Surely a miracle like that would have been recorded in the bible. Sorry, the dude died, he wasn’t raptured. He will be resurrected in either the first of second resurrection and like the rest of us will be with Jesus in paradise – a restored planet earth.
So that’s how I explain it.
Bless.
James
The thieves died that day. The romans made sure of that by coming around and breaking their legs, according to scripture. Jesus was already dead, so they left him alone and put a sword through his side instead.
Jesus never told the thief he was getting raptured. Paradise was a place in the underworld, a waiting place to go to heaven until the messsiah came.
jesus went to “hell” or paradise for 3 days before he arose from the dead. This is where the thief was.
Once Jesus took away the keys of hell and death from satan, he emptied paradise and took everyone there – from abraham to david and others, to heaven with him.
Well at least you agree with me that this verse doesn’t prove the rapture theory.
But I’ll need to see chapter and verse before I believe the rest. Jesusnever taught that the dead go to heaven or hell, just the grave – sheol. If another word for sheol is “hell” then fine, hell also means the grave. Then at least all the usage of the term in the KJV is correct. When I asked alienated to describe hell he didn’t know anything. He just replied “God knows that, I don’t care” which confirms my point that hell is never described in the bible. All we know comes from Catholic church doctrine. This includes purgatory, but Protestants don’t like that idea so they simply reject it and don’t mention it. But they just can’t let go of the tradition of hell or the tradition of Sunday worship and the traditions of Christmas and Easter. These are all traditions of man. They will not fly in the kingdom of God so enjoy them while you can.
oh gee….there are too many verses about hell to list them all
here is a link….
http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=hell&t=KJV
you will see there are 3 pages with verses on hell….
click on all three to see how the word hell is used.
on the first page, for example…
the covenant with death and the covenant with hell are treated seprarately.
notice on page 2, Matt 5:22 mentions hell fire
matthew describes hell as a place of punishment and fire.
most graves do not have fire in them…just dirt.
James, James, James,
Well it simply becomes bothersome, (and apparently futile), to answer your questions only to have you disregard the content.
You still believe that the “woman” in Revelation 12 is the Church, (though scripture, (Gen. 37:9,10.), would suggest otherwise).
You still believe that the “man child” within the same chapter is Yeshua, (though I have provided you with a detailed explanation regarding the book as being prophetic, and that it contains no events of any historical significance whatsoever.)
You still believe that the “mark of the beast” is not something literal and has nothing to do with economic capabilities, (though again scripture would indicate that it does).
You have stated that those that do accept that mark, will still attain salvation, (which again is contrary to Gods Word).
You still believe that Sunday Worship is the determining factor for whether or not a person will attain salvation, (where scripture clearly leads us to understand that it is the condition of our hearts, our faithfulness to His teachings, and our intimate relationship with the Lord Yeshua that will be what we are judged upon).
You still believe…….. I could go on and on….
Now you say there is no “hell”????
How about backing that up with some scriptural evidence?
If one can read through scripture and not be able to comprehend that a specific place is reserved for the unrighteous, satan, and his minions, well then they are simply hopeless.
Here’s a link. http://www.av1611.org/hell.html
I suspect that you won’t bother to read it, but if you do, you won’t comprehend it or receive it either. (But it is a lot easier on my fingers to simply post it).
Here is a question for you, (which of course you won’t answer, being a master (to the untrained eye) in deflection that you are), “Describe the Millennial Kingdom for us?” (Or don’t you believe in that either?).
To those that actually believe Gods word as being true and inspired by the Holy Spirit, and that possessing the Spirit is necessary to being able to understand the Word, I wish you Blessings in the Name of Yeshua HaMashiach. Our Precious and Glorious Savior. The Worthy and Holy Lamb.
Amen.
a,
First of all, I don’t know what your specific view is on hell, but check any encyclopedia and you will see that almost every sect of Christianity has its own view of hell. John Clavin believed it was a real place where the wicked go when they die but Martin Luther believed as I do that the dead sleep (ie: Rest in Peace) until the resurrection.
After the second resurrection (the first is only for the true church, which you are not in because they keep all the commandments, all the dead who now sleep will be resurrected, taught the gospel and given a chance for eternal life.
During the millennium, those from the true church who were resurrected/changed at the second coming will teach the world – those who survive the tribulation, who the man in Jerusalem is – the guy running the world for the next 1000 years.
Oh yeah – everyone will honor the true Sabbath or suffer the consequences. But they will learn that lesson before the second coming – it will be the mark of the beast.
You are free to believe what you want. Follow the Vatican beast and see what happens.
Wait forever for the rapture that ain’t coming. Lose your chance to receive divine protection during the last 1260 days. Worry that you may go to hell for deliberately rejecting God’s law.
Go ahead… Do you feel lucky?
Bless.
James,
I have no need to utilize a dictionary, for I have the infallible Word of God to refer to.
I don’t need the interpretation of other men to understand whether or not a place exists that is reserved for those that will receive eternal punishment from God.
It is implied right there in Scripture all over the place. It is implied in the Apocrypha and Deuterocanonical books as well.
It is referred to as “hell”, the “pit”, being “tormented in flame”, a “furnace of fire”, a “lake of fire”, “fire and brimstone”, “ever lasting fire”, “damnation”, “eternal punishment”, the “fire that shall never be quenched”, and on and on. The Lord Yeshua went there when He died for our sins and attained the Victory over death. If you don’t even understand that, How can you call yourself a Christian?
Well regarding what you say here, “After the second resurrection (the first is only for the true church, which you are not in because they keep all the commandments, all the dead who now sleep will be resurrected, taught the gospel and given a chance for eternal life.”
That is absolute nonsense.
Do you keep all 613 Taryag Mitzvot? Not likely, you as man can’t even fulfill the Ten. Yeshua was the only One that was able to do that.
So if you have broken one, then you have broken them all. What are you gonna do now huh, true church guy. lol.
Yeshua fulfilled the law. The New Covenant is of Grace and not of works, (which the law consisted of). The New Covenant is all about our heart and our relationship with Yeshua as our Savior, and our willingness to surrender to Him as our Lord, and die to self. All that have died in Yeshua are in heaven with Him, or how could He return with all of His saints?
You just don’t get it do you?
You think that you do, but you are so far out of left field that you’re in the parking lot.
Here’s one for you, if you actually have the Holy Spirit, “What is your gift?” (Remember, God is your witness here, so don’t just make something up.)
You say that you’ve been a Christian for years, you should be able to answer that one easily.
I can’t wait to hear the answer to that. lol.
You are not without your entertainment value James.
Oh, and I’ll leave the decision as to “who is judged worthy or not to be resurrected”, up to the Lord my God Yeshua as Judge, rather than you if that’s okay.
Praise be unto the Holy Name Yeshua HaMashiach the Highest. Our Precious and Glorious KING of kings and LORD of lords.
Amen.
Oh and James, thanks for answering my question. (Oh wait…. you didn’t again?)
Remember, its the one above where I asked you to, “Describe the Millennial Kingdom for us”. It’s in the same sentence were I say in brackets, “which of course you won’t answer, being a master (to the untrained eye) in deflection that you are.
How you operate is obvious, and much of what you say is without Biblical foundation.
This is expressed many times within scripture as to what to expect and will occur during “end times”.
A
First of all, I just answered your question about the millennium so I won’t repeat it again.
You never answered my question about where is heaven and what is everyone doing there right now? And why did Jesus say in John 3:12-13
If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you [of] heavenly things?
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of man which is in heaven.
Get that – NO MAN has ascended into heaven.
There is no “But I’ll be sending lots of people up there after my resurrection.” He could have made it clear but He didn’t. He left it to people like you to make the assumption and undo His words.
Secondly, you don’t impress me by telling me that you are completely self-taught when it comes to scripture. I won’t trust you to fix my computer If all you’ve ever done is peeked inside and tried to figure out how it works. You simply say the Holy Spirit taught you everything you know and therefore you are smarter than everyone who ever graduated from all the Christian seminaries all over the world. Sorry, but I’m a skeptic, as you know. And an engineer and student of the sciences. I like to study everything and break it down into pieces I can thoroughly understand. The bible as you see it just doesn’t work. Too much contradiction. Too many missing pieces.
But you will never figure this out because you don’t have an open mind. You are unwilling to do any additional research to see If maybe you might be wrong. I was there – a catholic for 40 years, never questioning my faith. But curiosity got the best of me and I began to read and study. Not just read the same verses over and over until I came up with what I figured is probably correct. I did that too until I had the internet to help me gather as much study material as possible. Many people have come to this site for the same reason.
I’m sure our discussion is being read by others who may hopefully get curious enough to look into the topics in more detail, then decide for themselves.
It is your contention that all we need to do to get into heaven is to love Jesus with all our hearts and minds.
Jesus said, “If you love me then keep my commandments.”
You say it is fine to break them – they are canceled.
I find that to be a conundrum.
I hope others will not be so anxious to follow your lead.
Bless.
James,
In your post of ramblings on July 22nd, @ 7:06 am. above, you say, “Where is hell. What does it look like? Are there flames and does the devil live there and dress up in a red suit and carry a pitchfork? How long do the lost stay there? Can’t be eternity since in Revelation it says that death and hell are thrown into the lake of fire? How does that even work?”
In my response of July 22nd. @ 4:10 pm., I had stated, “Whatever you want to call it, Yeshua had to “descend” there when He died for our sins, (Ephesians 4:9,10.). And, the archangel Michael had to contend, (decide a dispute), with satan regarding the body of Moses after his death too. (Jude 1:9.). So it is clearly a place that exists.”
I then provided the “Who Cares, God knows!” for the questions that you posed that are more or less irrelevant. I’ve never been to Pittsburgh, so I couldn’t tell you exactly where it is, what it looks like etc. but I know that it exists.
On July 25th. @ 12:53 pm., Marianne posted a link for you regarding all of the verses in respects to hell for you to consider. She started that post off by stating, “Oh gee”…. which in my opinion was an expression of how preposterous your statement was in regards to what is stated within the Word.
I also responded to you on that same date @ 3:58 pm., (directly under her response), with the James, James, James post.
Where, (after pointing out many of your scriptural errors), I stated, “If one can read through scripture and not be able to comprehend that a specific place is reserved for the unrighteous, satan, and his minions, well then they are simply hopeless.” Then I also provided you with a link regarding the subject.
It was within that post that I then posed the question to you, (since you had asked for me to describe hell), “Describe the Millennial Kingdom for us?”
Now you say that, “During the millennium, those from the true church who were resurrected/changed at the second coming will teach the world – those who survive the tribulation, who the man in Jerusalem is – the guy running the world for the next 1000 years.” was the totality of your answer?
Hardly sufficient when you take into consideration as to what I and others had provided for you is it?
“Yes”, please don’t repeat that again, for it was too underwhelming the first time.
Now to address the other ridiculous question that you have posed, (which further demonstrates your lack of understanding).
John 3:12,13., states, “If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.”
Well, other than the exception of Enoch and Elijah, (with God being God He can do what He wishes to do), it took for Yeshua to die on the Cross for our sins, (which He refers to in verse 14, and the association to the people being healed in Numbers 21:9.), and His going to hell to attain the Victory over death, (Ephesians 4:9,10.), and then His own ascension to the Father, before anyone else would be able to follow Him to heaven.
Scripture clearly indicates that when we die in the Lord, we go directly to Him, (2 Corinthians 5:8.).
So you are right in that when Yeshua did state that to Nicodemus, since He hadn’t done the above, no one, (other than the possible previous exceptions) had ascended up into heaven. It is obvious that the souls/spirits of those that have died in Him are in heaven, for as I posed above for you to consider, “How is it logically possible for Him to return “with all of His saints” if they are not with Him in the first place?” (1 Thessalonians 3:13. Jude 1:14.)
I am not “self taught” as you say. (If I was self taught I would probably believe the same crap that you do.)
As scripture states and what I have provided for you above somewhere else on this thread, is that one can only understand scripture through the Spirit of truth.
I am not smarter than anybody else? There is no one on earth that has the human intellect to understand God, (Isaiah 55:8,9.). And Seminary’s utilize the Word like a text book. They utilize the interpretations of man, and teach for example that Genesis 6 is referring to the linage of Seth, rather than the fallen angels.
Who cares if you’re an engineer and student of the sciences. Or if you like to study everything and break it down into pieces I can thoroughly understand.
You don’t have the capacity to understand God! (which is clearly evident by much of what you claim). The Word can only be understood with the Holt Spirit period. You being a Catholic for over 40 years actually explains a lot.
I’ve got to head out.
Perhaps I’ll comment further later tonight.
May all be Blessed in Yeshua HaMashiach, our Holy and Glorious Savior.
Amen.
Don’t think that I didn’t notice that you didn’t express to us what you Spiritual Gift was.
James
Do you say that Elia and Jesus didn´t ascend to heaven?
I didn’t say anything, I just copied what Jesus said. He came from heaven so he returned. As for Elijah, he ascended into the air in a chariot of fire but where he went to, nobody but God knows for sure.
Maybe Jesus was just kidding about the no-one being in heaven thing. Apparently He was a man of great contradictions.
Oh well…
We don’t know if Philip’s Acts8:39 rapture(G0726) was in a fiery chariot like Elijah’s, but several years after Elijah ascended a letter written by Elijah 2Ch21:12 was addressed to a king who was not yet a king at the time of Elijah’s departure. Therefore, it is entirely possible that Elijah’s rapture was not the end of his earthly life, but was only a passing of his prophetic mantle to Elisha so that Elijah could enter retirement elsewhere. Obviously Elijah appeared on the Mt. of Transfiguration and scripture says nothing of his death, but 2Ch21:12 opens the possibility that he did die and earthly death.
More than Elijah, I’m curious about God taking Enoch. Did Enoch die or not? I’m also curious about what the fuss was all about between Satan & Michael in Jude1:9 over the body of Moses. Why was Moses’ body an issue?? Especially important because Moses also appeared on the Mt. of Transfiguration and is felt by many to be the other of the two witnesses during the great tribulation.
On a related note, Aaron died & was buried in Petra by God’s specific instructions and Moses died somewhere nearby but northward from Petra. This burial place is significant when one considers that both Jesus and King David were born where the favored Sabbath Rachael died and was buried, she being the youngest and only one of the seven patriachs/matriarchs to be buried seperately, just like the Sabbath is seperated. So when God ordered the head of all the Levite priests to be buried in Petra, there must be something centrally important with regard to God’s priesthood in store for that location.
Good grief James…what an archaiic and arrogant response to people here…
So James I have read all your prevarications here and decided to share some scriptures that you tend to ignore.
The King James version of the Bible translated these words as “grave, hell, or pit,” which has led to the thinking that Jesus went to hell. but… it is to Hades, Sheol, Gehenna, and the Abyss Paradise so if 2Cor says that the man was CAUGHT UP in to Paradise…it certainly was not down then was it James… and is Jesus says the tree of life is the Paradise of God I rather trust the Word that it is with the Lord Jesus now….to me this is so exciting but I can see no excuse in all these relevant scriptures to prevaricating with all your odd statements James as to where we go or if we are caught up with the Lord in the air etc…..your questions can be absurd and derogatory as where is heavan…etc…well we never asked you where and if you were told the scripture you quoted way back when I must say James that Al and Alienated have been most patient with your responsees…so I gathered up these beautiful scriptures that don’t leave a hole anywhere …starting with…..
2 Corinthians 12:3-5
3 And I know such a man—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows— 4 how he was caught up into Paradise (CAUGHT UP) and heard inexpressible words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. 5 Of such a one I will boast; yet of myself I will not boast, except in my infirmities.
Rev. 2:7 ‘…To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the Paradise of God.’THE TREE OF LIFE IS IN THE PARADISE OF GOD
The overcomer is the one who has faith in the resurrection of Jesus. How is your faith today?
Luke 23:42-43 …“Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!” And He said to him, “Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise.”
Romans 10:7 tells us that Christ descended into the Abyss. The Abyss is the “AB-us-sos,” the bottomless pit that leads to Hades in the center of the earth.
1 Peter 3:21-22
21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God.[a] It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.
Ephesians 4:8-10
8 Therefore He says:
“When He ascended on high,
He led captivity captive,
And gave gifts to men.”[a]
9 (Now this, “He ascended”—what does it mean but that He also first[b] descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is also the One who ascended far above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.)
1 Peter 3:18-20
18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us[a] to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited[b] in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.
Luke 16
19 A certain man was rich, and he was dressed in purple and fine linen and he made merry every day in a luxurious manner. 20 And a poor man by the name of Lazarus, who was covered with sores, was laid at the gate, 21 who longed to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. But instead, the dogs used to come and lick his sores. 22 The poor man died and he was carried by the angels to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried, 23 And being in torment in Hades, he lifted his eyes and saw Abraham from afar and Lazarus at his side. 24 And calling out he said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that you received your good things during your lifetime, and Lazarus correspondingly received bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. 26 Besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been put in place, so that those wishing to cross over from here to you are not able, and no one can cross from there to us.’ 27 So the rich man said, ‘Then I beg you, father, to send Lazarus to the house of my father 28 (for I have five brothers), that he might warn them so that they might not come as well into this place of torment.’ 29 But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ 30 Then the rich man said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ 31 He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be persuaded should someone rise from the dead.’”
This is why it says….
8 Therefore He says:
“When He ascended on high,
He led captivity captive,
And gave gifts to men.”[a]
9 (Now this, “He ascended”—what does it mean but that He also first[b] descended into the lower parts of the earth?
Who were left in hell…the place of torment spoken of above but ….the unrepentant sinners…
Alienated (and others who are looking forward to the rapture):
I just read a post that was MOST interesting. It can be found here
http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/july2012/reneem723.htm
I have come to the belief that there is more than one rapture and that it had to do with the harvest cycles. This letter explains very clearly how the harvest cycles correspond to feast/festival days. It elaborates on a minor or “little known” feast. Tu B’ Av.
and James- although you don’t believe in the rapture any more…even you could appreciate the simplicity of using something agricultural to point out the mysteries of God.
This is a must read!
Worthy is the Lamb!!!
the 9th of Av is this saturday……..
Hi Malia,
Thanks for the link.
It is an interesting read all right, and I would be more than happy if the “gathering” were on August 3rd. and I was accounted worthy for it. (Luke 21:36.).
However, I do have some problems with what the author has written based upon my understanding.
Renee says, (after a paragraph quoting Revelation 14:1-5.), “I call these people the “purehearts”. They are redeemed from the earth at the time of the Rapture. Their hearts are pure and they are blameless. The PURE in heart shall see God. They are offered as FIRSTFRUITS. The firstfruits of grapes, or the New Wine, or the New Covenant. It’s at the time of the wheat harvest, the end of the wheat season and beginning of the grape season.”
Though the 144,000 are indeed “firstfruits” scripture suggests that they are born of Israel after that of the 6th. seal being opened by the Lord Yeshua. We are no where near that time period yet.
They are raptured though as Revelation 12:5. states. And I believe that this “rapture” is described within 14:2.
One minute they are on Mount Zion on earth, and after a voice from heaven, a voice like many waters and great thunder, they are all before the throne!
The same type of description of a resurrection of the Tribulation Saints can be found in Revelation 15:2.
I have always related Boaz and Ruth as being a foreshadowing too, but never associated it to Tu B’Av before. That is very interesting, as well was the rest of the link. Thanks Malia.
I would love for it to be on August 3rd., (though I believe that I have been chosen to stay). But for my brothers and sisters that would go, my heart would be overjoyed for them to be in His presence.
I just suggest to all, to make sure that at all times their relationship with Yeshua is pure of heart, and to always pray as He said to in Luke 21:36.
Praise be unto our Lord Yeshua our Holy and Precious Savior. Glory and Worship to our Worthy KING of kings and LORD of lords.
Come Yeshua Come!!!
Amen.
a.
alienated and malia
Tisha b’ av is this saturday, not august 2
http://www.chabad.org/calendar/holidays_cdo/aid/1126695/jewish/2012-Holidays.htm
–
Yes, Tish B’ Av (the 9th of AV) is this Saturday but Tu B’ Av (the 15th of Av) is later.
I do not see that connection the link claims.
first fruits always happens 3 days after passover….and is in the spring, not summer.
You are right but there are 3 harvests and therefore, 3 first fruits: barley, wheat and grapes.
I do not see this feast associated with a harvest.
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/717167/jewish/Why-Do-We-Celebrate-the-15th-of-Av.htm
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/53680/jewish/15th-of-Av.htm
http://velveteenrabbi.blogs.com/blog/2011/08/happy-tu-bav.html
Hi Marianne,
Tu B’ Av may not be associated with a harvest now but consider the following:
There are two separate wheat harvests. One takes place in the spring around the second and third month and the other wheat harvest takes place in the summer around the fourth and fifth month.
Also:
Boaz and Ruth’s wedding is another example of the Rapture/ wedding of the Bride. Boaz represents Jesus as the Kinsman Redeemer and Ruth represents the Church. Ruth 2:14, “And at mealtime Boaz said to her, “Come here and eat some bread and dip your morsel in the wine.” Here we have Boaz (representing Jesus) giving bread and wine to Ruth (the Church). So, when did their wedding take place? Ruth 2:23, “So she kept fast by the maidens of Boaz to glean unto the end of barley harvest and of wheat harvest; and dwelt with her mother in law.”Ruth stayed with her mother-in-law until the end of the wheat harvest and then left her mother-in-law to live with her new husband Boaz.
Tu B’ Av is the end of the wheat and the beginning of the grape. Grape picking in Israel begins during the months of Tammuz and Av.
I read the articles you posted and I think they support the idea of rapture on this date. True, none of them tie it to a harvest but I think it can be inferred by the calendar and activities. They show the people having enough time for a party (wheat harvest has just ended) and the party is among the grape vines that are just beginning to ripen (the next expected provision).
Virgins dress in borrowed white dresses-(the righteousness of Christ) and are snatched (raptured) away by the groom.
Here is an excerpt from the link you gave me: http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/53680/jewish/15th-of-Av.htm
“The 15th of Av is undoubtedly the most mysterious day of the Jewish calendar…. And the Talmud tells us that many years ago the “daughters of Jerusalem would go dance in the vineyards” on the 15th of Av, and “whoever did not have a wife would go there” to find himself a bride.
And this is the day which the Talmud considers the greatest festival of the year, with Yom Kippur (!) a close second!
Indeed, the 15th of Av cannot but be a mystery. As the “full moon” of the tragic month of Av, it is the festival of the Future Redemption, and thus a day whose essence, by definition, is unknowable to our unredeemed selves”
If I had written this myself, I couldn’t have described a model of the rapture any better.
God Bless!
Malia
Hi Malia,
Here is a link with some more info.
http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Holidays/Summer_Holidays/Tu_B_Av/tu_b_av.html
Be Blessed in Yeshua HaMashiach our glorious KING of kings. Amen.
Thanks A!
Great link!!!
Praying for you. Praying for James. I hope some day he realizes the love you have shown to him. The hours you have spent and the care you have taken to address specifics is admirable. Blessings on your head!
Love, Malia
Oh well, it‘s Monday already..
Never mind!
Tu B’ Av is the 15th of Av. It has not passed yet this year. It will be over after the full moon of this month. The new moon was sighted a day late this month.
The Karaite Jews have the most accurate calendar as they still pay attention to when a new moon is sighted and when the barley is abib in Jerusalem.
Also, I don’t know what year the rapture is going to happen. This year is a good candidate.But my point is that Tu B’ Ave is a good watch date every year.
Yes. These are exciting days.
Hello Malia,
I agree with you – Tu B’ Ave is a good date to watch every year.
His gathering together His Bride unto Him in the heavens (aka “rapture”) may just be Tu B’ Ave or maybe Feast of Trumpets (at the 7th of 7 Trumpets) in just a few years.
Please consider watching this link, which Marianne posted within Heaven Awaits. She would not have posted this unless it was worthy of your or my time to consider.
https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/daniels-timeline/
The presentation is 2 hours long, so get comfortable – with pin and paper handy to take notes.
This video presentation is very comprehensive (a 20 year study of Hebrew, OT and NT texts) and may benefit your study and desire for Truth.
“The [Holy] Spirit and the bride (the church, the true Christians) say, Come! And let him who is listening say, Come! And let everyone come who is thirsty [who is painfully conscious of his need [d]of those things by which the soul is refreshed, supported, and strengthened]; and whoever [earnestly] desires to do it, let him come, take, appropriate, and drink the water of Life without cost” (Rev 22:17, Amplified Bible).
Blessings,
DJ
Exciting? Try confusing!
I was expecting six raptures in the last 2 weeks, including today. So now it looks perfect for both this Saturday AND next Tuesday? Anyone else want to chime in here?
Any word from the Holy Spirit?
I’m sticking with no rapture.
Let’s see how it goes.
Rapture occurs after Jesus start his next mission.
Jame was right!!! Here’s another letter!
……don’t want you ‘hanging’ there in ‘oblivion’ if any interesting points could enlighten you as they did me. Briefly, take note of the following:
I’m still determined that the orb over Jerusalem was the 1-yr warning; so Jan 29, 2011, UFO/1-yr warning/angelic measuring of the Temple Mt (Rev 11) plus 355 days (1 year/# total of SHANA=355/R-L….300, 50, 5) = Jan 19, 2012. Jan 19, 2012 plus 190 days (150 + 40), span of Noah’s Ark experience (“….shall be as in the days of Noah….”) = Friday, Av 8.
Jews were safe in Goshen ONE DAY BEFORE each plague began/”This time tomorrow…..I will”…..etc). ONE DAY after Friday Av 8 is SATURDAY, AV 9, likely the N. Invasion of Israel w/ its accompanying Divine Victory from Av 9-15…..a huge, significant week on the Jewish Calendar.
TUES, LEO 1, July 24, and -23 tilt loss at the Return will be July 1 in retrospect/begin of trib) was the probable SIGNING/as ‘Ketubbah/wedding agreement’ on a TUES. Israel signed a water deal w/ Sudan; but it’s not the 7-yr pact. The pact ‘signer’ will remain unrevealed til after the Rapture.
Return is Signing + 2520 days, which is TUESDAY, June 18, 2019 (& Gemini 27….10/999 if applicable). “Israel shall be RAISED UP (as a plain/Zech 14:10/Hos 6:2-3 “Raised up”) on the THIRD DAY…”…..TUESDAY. 30 days later (mourning) is July 18, CANCER 27 (11/999 if applicable).
Av 9 to Av 15, 2012 will see the Battle in Northern Israel (Ezek 38-39) w/ God’s Divine Victory in the mts, and Av 15 (Aug 3/Tu b’Av) to Feb 29, 2013 is exactly 210 days/7 mths of burying bodies/bldg 3rd Temple. Then exactly 2300 days later (Temple Desecration/Dan 8) is the Return, TUESDAY, June 18, 2019, 2520 days after Signing.
MID TRIB, 1260 days past Signing, is TUESDAY, JAN 5, 2016, the Gk Orthod Christmas. Jan 5 minus 12 days (calendar diff) is DEC 24, the original KISLEV 24 of Haggai 2, beginning of Great Trib/& beginning of 1260 days Petra Protection. Also Jan 5 minus the future earth tilt loss of 23 days is Dec 12-13, Tevet 1-2, the original 8th day of the 8th Feast, Jesus’ Jewish conception day (because +280 is Succoth, His Birth).
Basically, the trib spans ‘AV 9,’ 2012 to AV 9, 2019 when the tilt minus is considered.
As for the 280, the LAST DAY of the LAST FEAST/LAST TRUMP DAY, TISHREI 22, 2011 plus 280 days (‘spiritual gestation’ of the Church) is Av 8 as well & holds for the post-trib side as well w/ the trib ending Av 9, 2019. Thus all three ‘gestation’ periods are complete for the BODY of Christ: Jesus, the Church & the Remnant. By the way, the 8th day of the 7th Feast/Succoth/Tishrei 22, was Jesus’ Circumcision.
The Pyramid timeline in reality is 5772 SUCCOTH 2011 to 5779 SUCCOTH 2018 since the Millennium will only celebrate SUCCOTH and Succoth 2019 will not have been reached; thus the 2011 to 2018 timeline holds.
Also TUESDAYS are all across the board.
There’s LOTS more to say, but youre already thinking of DELETED this!!!……Hey!…..Come Back!!!! Don’t you want to hear a 25th Rapture date? What’s the matter with you!?
So, it looks like we’re ‘outa here’ on Friday. Maybe, maybe not. Who cares anymore!!??……No, I mean YOU don’t CARE for this additional letter!!….NO, I mean I’ll commit ‘hari CAREy’ if He doesn’t come, NO, I mean “We gotta save the CARE BEARS!….NO! I mean TAKE CARE! (yikes…..I’m ‘losin it’)……..J.H.
Hi Jan.
Sorry, I’m still going with NO rapture, although I must relay an interesting story that happened a couple days ago according to a neighbor.
She claims to have seen two separate piles of men’s clothing – shoes, pants shirts, etc, laying in neat piles near her apartment. It made her think maybe the rapture had occurred. So maybe you were correct but the rapture was limited to a very few and we’re not it.
Just a thought.
How silly is that?! Scripture says we will HEAR the trumpet blast (God’s voice). Did you know that if you have 5 flocks of sheep (w/ separate shepherds outside the pen), each sheep will madly run out of the pen towards its personal shepherd according to the shepherd’s voice (“My sheep hear my voice…….etc”)…………can’t believe I’m communicating with someone I don’t even know AND who disagrees with me on almost everything! BUT if THIS back & forth communication is an example of the PEACE & COOPERATION that the brethren can have with one another in these confusing end times, it’s CHALLENGING as well as AMAZING! You DO give one a ‘run for his money!’………….J.H.
Hey Jan,
I guess you’re not yet familiar with my sarcastic wit. You’ll get it eventually.
I know exactly what the second coming will be like – everyone will know it. Unlike the Left Behind scenario where everyone simply disappears and the world is mystified as to what has happened, the real deal will be seen by everyone. But it will only happen once. Jesus is not coming all the way from heaven, then stop in mid air, then resurrect the dead and rapture the true church, then hi-tail it back to heaven with the saved.
The trump you mentioned is the LAST trump of Revelation. On the feast of trumpets. As Christ returns – to stay.
The protection of His flock will be right here on earth, as it has always been in the past. Never was a rapture for the Jews, won’t be one for the Christians.
You can calculate all you want, it ain’t gonna happen.
But I’m glad you also have a great sense of humor about it. I can appreciate that.
But I am the skeptic here – the voice of reason. I declare the errors of commonly held beliefs. I am the Alfred Wegener of this site. If you don’t know who he was, he first proposed the theory of continental drift in 1912. Everyone thought he was either crazy or just an idiot. But time proved he was correct.
My time will also come.
🙂
Jan
James gives everyone a hard time.
But we put up with him.
🙂
Matthew 27:7 (as in July…7th mth and 27th day) refers to the Potter’s Field being purchased to bury foreigners; and the Opening Ceremonies of the Olympics takes place outside of London on July 27 (Av 8) in the Potter’s Field (torch lit when dark/Av 9 begins)……interesting. See the letter above and watch Pastor Paul Begley’s youtube……J.H.
Hey Jan,
You forgot to add 1302 days for the depth of the Dead Sea. That would put in the winter of 2016.
Careless of you…
🙂
a,
Our thread got too skinny and I couldn’t fit into it any more.
In regards to your last post, on your references to hell, and especially the asinine assertion that Jesus descended into hell for three days (which I learned in catechism and is part of the Nicene creed) why would God send His perfect son to HELL? To suffer, as in purgatory? (You never told us If you believe in that, by the way). That is just too crazy to imagine.
Look, the word hell was substitute 31 times in the King James for the term sheol which refers to the grave – a place in the earth of darkness and unconsciousness – sleep. 31 other times it was left as “grave” as when the people buried their dead. So just replace the word hell with grave or tomb and you will have the correct interpretation. Try it for all 31 cases of hell (I have) and you will see that it fits perfectly.
Then pick up a history book and learn how the concept of Plato’s idea of hell as a place of eternal punishment seeped into the early church.
If you can’t do that then you are doomed to false doctrine forever.
But people believe what they want to believe. Remember I believed it all too. You can’t show me anything new that I haven’t already rebuked as false teaching.
As for spiritual gift, there is only one of any real use, the gift of eternal life given to all believers by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Even those who don’t understand the truth. They will be corrected in the millennium, to become part of the true church, whatever that will be like.
But I can tell you one thing, that church will NOT keep Sunday as the Lord‘s day.
So you better get used to it.
acts 2:31
He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in the tomb, neither his flesh did see corruption.
There you go…
James,
Further to my post above dated today, (July 26th. @ 4:28 pm.) For as you say, there was no room to continue the discussion above.
You say that you’re an engineer and a student of the sciences. With that I suspect that you are suggesting that your mind works in a rational and logical way.
From what you have written before and have again stated above, it is your opinion that a “gathering or rapture” is only that of fantasy and that only “one resurrection” is slated for the Church when Yeshua returns to establish and Reign in His Millennial Kingdom. As well, it is your belief that believers “sleep” until that resurrection occurs and that no soul/spirit goes to heaven when they die. Is that correct?
So, in being an engineer and student of the sciences, in utilizing logic, how do the verses that I provided to you earlier regarding “coming with all of His saints” fit in to your ideology?
“To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ “with all his saints”.”
1 Thessalonians 3:13. KJV
“And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying , Behold , “the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints”, to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed , and of all their hard [speeches] which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” Jude 1:14,15. KJV
”And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.” Revelation 19:11-14. KJV.
This obviously, would refer to Yeshua coming at what is also referred to as His Second Coming, to execute judgment upon all the ungodly, and to then set up His Millennial reign. You agree with that don’t you?
Well when He comes, He comes with all of His saints!
So that would logically mean that there is a flaw within your ideology.
1) Either a “gathering or rapture” occurs prior to His second Coming, so that those that were gathered, could also return with Him?
2) The verses above are only speaking of those that have died and gone to heaven, so that they are able to return with Him?
3) Or that there is more than one resurrection?
Logically, if one believes the above verses, then the model of belief that you have constructed must be wrong, for one of the 3 possibilities must now be taken into consideration as being a possibility. Correct? I mean you must see that don’t you?
Lets look at 1 Thessalonians 4:14.
”For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again , even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.” KJV
Okay, Paul is reassuring the Assembly at Thessalonica that those that are “asleep” have not missed this future, “resurrection”, (verse 13), and that when it happens, Yeshua will bring those that are asleep, (that died in Him)……”with Him”.
So, with this and 2 Corinthians 5:8. “We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.” it would suggest that your ideology regarding a believer going to heaven when we die, could possibly be re-evaluated.
Now 1 Thessalonians 4:15,16 and 17. says,
“For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
This then is directly related to 1 Corinthians 15:51,52.
”Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep , but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.”
So we can conclude logically then from the above, that those that die in Yeshua, go to heaven, and when this particular event happens, those that have died, will come with Him and be raised first. Then those that are alive still will be changed, (glorified like an angel), and will meet the Lord in the clouds in the air.
Now, Paul in both 1 Corinthians 15 and 1 Thessalonians 4 is speaking about a resurrection.
The question is, is this the “one and only resurrection” that you believe will happen, or perhaps one that you believe is fantasy?
Lets stay in 1 Corinthians 15, but just refer to a couple of earlier verses. In verses 20 through 24 Paul states the following;
“But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his order; Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.THEN cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father, when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
From the above we can understand that there is a sequence of events. Yeshua being the firstfruits, then those that are His at His coming, THEN comes “the end” where He will put down all rule, all authority, and all power. (The English “then”, the Greek “εἶτα” or “eita”, (Strong’s 1534) is defined as, “1) then. 2) next, after that.”).
Earlier again in 1 Corinthians 13:8-13., Paul says that the Spiritual Gifts will disappear.
”Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known . And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.”
Again we see in verses 8 & 10, that the Spiritual gifts will disappear.
The first “faileth” above being derived from the Greek “ἐκπίπτω”, transliterated as “ekpiptō”, (Strong’s 1601) and its primary definition is, “1) to fall out of, to fall down from, to fall off. 2b) to perish, to fall.”
The second “they shall fail” is derived from the Greek “καταργέω”, transliterated as “katargeō”, (Strong’s 2673) and its primary definition is, “1) to render idle, unemployed, inactivate, inoperative. a) to cause a person or thing to have no further efficiency. b) to deprive of force, influence, power.”
The English “they shall cease” is derived from the Greek “παύω”, transliterated as “pauō” (Strong’s 3973) and its primary definition is, “1) to make to cease or desist. 2) to restrain a thing or person from something.”
The “it shall vanish away” is derived from the transliterated Greek “katargeō” again. So that particular word was utilized twice.
So theses gifts will no longer be necessary when the “perfect” is come, (verse 10), and with also “face to face” in verse 12, Paul can only be referring to Yeshua our Lord. And this “coming” of the Lord our Savior can not be referring to His Second Coming based upon 1 Corinthians 15:20-24. above.
That last definition of “katargeō” may for some, has piqued their interest I bet.
I believe that why the gifts disappear and become not necessary anymore, is because of the resurrection, and the what “withholdeth” or is “restraining”, in 2 Thessalonians 2:6 is indeed the Holy Spirit, or the Spirit filled believers that are gathered. The ones that had enough oil, and weren’t foolish having not quenched the Spirit.
So with being an engineer and a student of science, logically what does that tell ya?
If you can’t see from the above that you are wrong somewhere within your ideology, then you have a distinct problem with your ego and simply can’t admit that you could possibly be wrong. The problem with that is when one can not even surrender and admit to their own fallibilities, how can they possibly surrender themselves to Yeshua?
Something there to perhaps take into consideration.
In respects to what you say above regarding the asinine assertion that Yeshua descended into hell….?
Well I guess that you’ll have to take that one up with the Father, for it is His word and not mine.
“(Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)” Ephesians 4:9,10. KJV.
Hmmm, that sounds pretty clear to me?
And “yes” I have told you above that I don’t believe in purgatory, but apparently you have difficulty with the written language.
Oh and BTW, nice cop-out on the Spiritual gift answer. Why am I not surprised that you couldn’t just state one of the 9?
Yes you stick to that which you believe regarding “works”, and I’ll stick with Yeshua’s Grace as being completely Sufficient and that He is my Everything and Blessed Hope. I do hope that “works” out for ya, (though I don’t believe it will).
To all be Blessed in our Holy and Precious Savior.
Com our KING of kings, Come.
Amen.
Ooop’s small correction for the above.
Where I say, “That last definition of “katargeō” may for some, has piqued their interest I bet.”
I should have said, “ The definition for “pauō” may have piqued interest for some.”
Sorry my bad.
a.
I know its too big a bummer for you to believe the God’s laws are still in effect so I’ll leave you to your delusion. But there are over 1-1/2 billion Christians who still believe the commandments are for yesterday, today and tomorrow – same as God himself. I’ll stick with them.
Good luck with your “there’s no such thing as sin anymore” theory.
Maybe God will cut you some slack.
Maybe…
James you are lost.
I never said that the Ten Commandments weren’t applicable today, but they can only be fulfilled with the Spirit and a changed heart.
What do you think Yeshua was talking about in Matthew 5:21-30.?
I never said that there was no such thing as “sin” anymore either!
The fact that you have to start making up things, (and be a false witness, which would be breaking that of the 9th Commandment), rather than defend your position through scripture, should send some warning flags up for many that also believe that what you teach and believe is false.
Yeshua had to go to hell to defeat death and get the victory over it.
He had the sin of the whole world of believers then, when He shed His blood on the Cross, and of the whole world of believers of the future.
So with that much sin, (He because God is Just and Holy), had to go to hell.
But He didn’t stay there; Acts 2:27., 31.
In getting the Victory over hell and death, He then took the keys and has control over both of them. Rev. 1:18.
Revelation 20:13,14. state;
“And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.”
So death and hell are a place that exists for they gave up the dead that were in them. They are a place for the unrighteous, disobedient and people that don’t accept Yeshua’s gift of Salvation, (or perhaps also those that don’t believe that His Grace Is Sufficient).
But you go ahead and continue to make false accusations against me, and I’ll rely on 1 Peter 3:16. and rejoice.
“Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.”
Under the Law if you break one of them, you have broken them all. I don’t think that your keeping the Sabbath is going to cleanse you anywhere near to what the Blood of Yeshua can.
But you go ahead and be that stiffnecked ego driven dude that you are.
Good luck with that to you too.
a.
To my fellow Sheep, Praise be unto Yeshua HaMashiach. Our Glorious and Precious Savior.
Our Worthy Lamb who Shed His Blood for those that would believe on Him.
Amen.
a,
Just replace Hell with Grave in the verses above and you will have the intended meaning. The Jews who wrote the bible never thought of sheol or even Hades as anything but the grave.
The lake of fire is not hell, nor is Gehenna, the fiery dump outside of Jerusalem.
As for your beliefs about the Ten Commandments, I’m sorry If I’ve misquoted you but you have stated clearly that the 4th commandment is null and void, and that the blood of Jesus covers everything else so we are not required to follow the law any more.
Is that right or not?
And having a different opinion on bible interpretation does not make either one of us liars, only mistaken. A lie must be intentional. To err is human – we can be forgiven for that.
Also there is a big difference between knowing the commandments and breaking them from time to time, than believing that the commandments are no longer part of the law, or deleting or changing them to suit your preferences, as the Catholic church has done with the daughter churches failing to correct.
I say we are still required to follow the law.
What do you say?
james
there is no FIRE in the grave…..
the grave is just dirt
the bible says there is fire in hell..
so they are different places.
James,
Not once have I ever stated that the “keeping of the Sabbath is null and void”. Not once!
What I have stated is, “That I disagree with your theory that Sunday worship in the mark of the beast!”
Those are 2 totally different things, and you have misinterpreted what I have been saying.
However, one can keep the Sabbath all that they want, but if their “heart” isn’t right, it accounts for nothing. The person is just following the letter of the law, rather than doing it out of their love for God. In the eyes of the Pharisees and Sadducees, Yeshua broke the laws pertaining to the Sabbath all the time, by healing and doing what they considered to be work on it. This is why He called them hypocrites’, because they followed the letter and disregarded the heart.
They followed the letter of the law, where Yeshua, (being God in the flesh), understood that it was a matter of the heart.
Demonstrating “sincere Love from the Heart” for God and others, is what not only fulfills the totality of the law, but also that of the Sabbath.
This is why Paul stated in Colossians 2:16., “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:”, because the letter was “blotted” out, and was replaced with Yeshua, the Holy Spirit and the New Covenant.
Yeshua and His Precious Blood that He shed for us IS EVERYTHING! He is the Way, the Truth and the Life!
The Commandments were impossible for mere man to follow. Sacrifices were offered up constantly at the Temple for sin. Yeshua became that one time sacrifice for those that would believe in Him. When you are “born again” you receive the Holy Spirit, and it is only with the Holy Spirit that you can then fulfill the law. For God in the flesh was the only one to fulfill the law, so we therefore require God in the Spirit to also fulfill it.
But we are not God as Yeshua was. We are still flesh so we stumble and make mistakes all the time. This is where Grace comes in.
If we sincerely confess our sins to Him, humbly from our heart, He is Faithful and True and cleanses us from our unrighteousness.
God will not be mocked, so we don’t take advantage of this liberty of Grace. We sincerely try our best to serve Him constantly and He knows our hearts regarding that.
The law is the demonstration of love and the condition of our heart for God and others;
Exodus 20:6., Leviticus 19:18., Deuteronomy 6:5., 7:9.
The Commandments that God says to keep in loving Him, are all Commandments that if you loved God and others like yourself, you would never break!
From the original Hebraic Ten Commandments;
1) “I am the Lord your God who has taken you out of the land of Egypt.”
Therefore, if you “Loved” the Lord God for that, you would have no other gods besides Him. This is a matter of the heart.
2) “You shall have no other gods but Me.” (See above.)
3) “You shall not take the Name of the Lord your God in vain.”
If you truly “loved” God, and had “reverence” for Him, you would never use His Name carelessly.
4) “You shall remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy.”
Here is the one that you keep rambling on about. When these laws were given initially they were rules and regulations, (that as far as the people were concerned at the time), dictated to them by a awesome consuming fire presence that they were afraid of. Their heart in following these Commandments wasn’t there at all. “Yes” the Sabbath is Holy, as are all the laws themselves, but if ”love is not present in the heart” they are just a list to follow out of fear.
5) “Honor your mother and father.”
This takes and demonstrates“love”.
6) “You shall not murder.”
If you “loved God, and everybody like you loved yourself”, you wouldn’t even consider murdering anybody. The thought would not even enter your heart.
7) “You shall not commit adultery.”
If you “loved God and everybody like you loved yourself”, you would never do this to satiate a desire to fulfill your lust either, knowing how devastating all the consequences could be. You would never be that selfish.
8) “You shall not steal.”
If you “loved God and everybody like you loved yourself”, you would never do this either.
9) “You shall not bear false witness.”
Again, if you “loved God and everybody like you loved yourself”, you would live your life with integrity and never falsely accuse anyone of anything.
10) “You shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbour.”
See all of the above again.
So to fulfill the law as God wished it to be fulfilled, and as Yeshua fulfilled it Himself, is all a matter of the heart.
“Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.” Matthew 22:37-40.
”For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning, that we should love one another.” 1 John 3:11.
So “Yes” the law is still applicable today, but within the context of its definition. It is not to be followed merely as a written rules and regulations bulletin board of do’s and don’ts, but with the guidance of the Holy Spirit and from a heart of love for God and of others as you love yourself.
I happen to keep the Sabbath myself. But that doesn’t mean that I just sit at home and worship God. I will sometimes head out downtown and walk for miles, (which would be breaking the law), to look for opportunities to provide help for someone in need.
Now, if I happened to attend a Church service on a Sunday as well, to express my “love and devotion” to God for His Precious Gift of His Son my Savior, why do you think that He would somehow be upset with me doing that? That worship would be a demonstration of my Love. What if I were to worship Him on all the rest of the days of the week too? Would that make Him upset as well? Hardly. He wishes for us to praise Him constantly with a sincere and loving heart.
Finally, “hell and the grave” are not the same thing. I am sorry that you can’t differentiate the difference between the two.
James, what I am about to ask you is personal, and I only ask because it is so very important. I am aware of what the Catholic Church teaches, and I am aware that you spent 40 some odd years there. It is one thing to believe in Yeshua, and another thing all together to be actually “born again” of the Spirit.
Have you actually come to Him humbly and asked Him to be the Lord and Master of your life? Have you surrendered to Him, asked for Him to cleanse you of all of your sin, and to fill you with Himself and His Spirit? You don’t have to answer that on line. It is just something that I hope that you have done.
Praise be unto Yeshua HaMashiach the Holy and Worthy Lamb. Our Precious, Glorious Savior and KING of kings.
Amen.
a.
Amen and Amen.
a,
I understand and agree with everything you said. I keep the commandments because I love Jesus and I strive (unsuccessfully) to be like Him, as should we all.
You are trying to make a distinction on why I follow the commandments and you think I’m following them for the wrong reason. But that is illogical. You could say, “I hate God but I’m following His commandments because I don’t want to be punished“ or “I don’t believe in God but I’m keeping them just in case” but that would be silly. It seems our differences are simply a matter of semantics. As long as you keep the commandments in your mind and know them to be God’s law, you will be sealed in the forehead and safe from the mark of the beast. Failing to keep them in your right hand (works) can be forgiven. I don’t know about you but I pray for forgiveness for any new sins all the time, even though I’ve been saved as you outlined above. Sin still exists. Sin is transgression of the law. The law must therefore still exist. This is simple logic.
Now, If I have accused you of anything incorrectly it might be because I have confused our blogs with other members on this site and If so I apologize. Some days I can barely remember my name.
So it turns out we are pretty much on the same page here, so what the hell have we been arguing about?
Oh yeah, hell.
Well that’s another thread.
Bless.
Oh please…..
Just when I thought that we were maybe making some progress, you just had to bring up your ideology regarding the “mark of the beast” again.
Where the heck did you even come up with something like that?
Please explain it as you see it, and how you arrived at that conclusion.
I know that I’m going to regret this.
(SIGH………)
Oh and James,
While you are explaining as to “How and Why” you believe what you do regarding the “mark”, (by including scripture for support of course), perhaps you could also comment on the above considerations that I posed to you as well? (The questions that you didn’t address at all. That is so unlike you James. It must have just slipped your mind?)
Remember, the one about Yeshua “returning with His saints”?
Here, I’ll post some of it again to refresh your mind; (No need to thank me. You’re welcome.)
“So, in being an engineer and student of the sciences, in utilizing logic, how do the verses that I provided to you earlier regarding “coming with all of His saints” fit in to your ideology?
“To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ “with all his saints”.”
1 Thessalonians 3:13. KJV
“And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying , Behold , “the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints”, to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed , and of all their hard [speeches] which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” Jude 1:14,15. KJV
”And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.” Revelation 19:11-14. KJV.
This obviously, would refer to Yeshua coming at what is also referred to as His Second Coming, to execute judgment upon all the ungodly, and to then set up His Millennial reign. You agree with that don’t you?
Well when He comes, He comes with all of His saints!
So that would logically mean that there is a flaw within your ideology.
1) Either a “gathering or rapture” occurs prior to His second Coming, so that those that were gathered, could also return with Him?
2) The verses above are only speaking of those that have died and gone to heaven, so that they are able to return with Him?
3) Or that there is more than one resurrection?
Logically, if one believes the above verses, then the model of belief that you have constructed must be wrong, for one of the 3 possibilities must now be taken into consideration as being a possibility. Correct? I mean you must see that don’t you?
So if I what you say and believe is correct, “1) That people sleep and don’t go to heaven when they die if they belong to Yeshua”, “2) That a gathering or rapture is just a fantasy.”, Or “3) That there is only one resurrection slated, and that is for the church at the end.” How possibly, can “the saints return with Him”?
This is even stated within the Tanakh. In Zechariah 14:5., (which the entire chapter is regarding “end times”) It is written;
“And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.”
The LORD my God there is referring to Yeshua returning to punish the wicked and establish His Millennial Reign. How do all of these saints come with Him?
Does He have this resurrection just before this all begins, then everyone abruptly heads back up into heaven pretending that this resurrection didn’t just happen, then turn around again and all head back to earth in a rather un-stealthy like fashion?
Yes, I would appreciate it if you could address this as well, when you are providing the other explanation.
a.
Praise Yeshua HaMashiach, our Holy and Precious Savior and KING of kings.
Amen.
As far as I can see, we’re ‘down to the wire.’ Try to chart the following if you really want to know what I see at this point noting that I am a pitiful, fallen human, a sinner (albeit redeemed) with mental abilities perhaps only one millionth the brain power (if ANY) of Adam’s original genius but with enough sense to know that SOMETHING is going on. So speculatively speaking, the Rapture is likely SUNDAY, July 29, AV 10. Know that the the FAST of AV 9 extended into AV 10 as well and there are horrid, historical events (w/ respect to Bible/Jews/Israel) connected with Av 9-10. After Sunday, the spans/dates/patterns lose their calculable boundary points.
Av 10 2012 to Av 10 2019…………..the trib span w/ the -23 considered
Mid trib (abom desol/a.c. killed) Jan 4, 2016………..minus the 12 days calendar diff is DEC 24, 2015, the original KISLEV 24 of Haggai 2.
Mid trib, Jan 4, 2016 begins the 1260 to Return, 1290 to Jesus’ Temple Entrance & 1335 to end of trib.
Also, Mid trib, Jan 4, 2016 (a.c. killed) minus projected -23 is TEVET 1, Jesus’ Conception Day (8th Day after Creation when count began because +280 days gestation was His Birth at Tishrei 15).
RETURN is Sivan 17 (Th, June 20, 2019) plus 30 mourning is SATURDAY, TAMMUZ 17 (Fast Day to Joy as Jesus enters Temple w/ Remnant from Petra/also LEO 1/LION/Conquerer).
Av 10, 2012 minus a projected 23-day loss is also TAMMUZ 17…..2 Fast Days turned to joy (Zech 8).
RETURN at June 20, 2019 is CANCER 1 (11th sign/judgment)…..plus 2 days for straightening to be accomplished/Hos 6.
Jesus into Temple July 20, 2019 (Isaiah 63, 30 days past Return/& 1290 past mid trib) is LEO 1 (12th sign/perf gov’t)…into Temple as LION, not as LAMB.
Earth’s straightening will likely take 2 days (Hos 6); thus June 20, 2019 Return will resolve as June 22…..exact CANCER 1.
TISH 22, 2011 (last day of last Feast/Last Trump Day) plus exactly 280 spiritual gestation of Church was Th, July 26, presumed Signing/beginning of the 1260 days a.c. ‘keeps’ covenant and beginning of the 2520 days to the RETURN.
AV 15 (Tu b’Av) is Divine Mt Victory in Israel plus 212 days (7 Greg mths) is March 3, 2013; then plus 2300 Temple Desecration is RETURN, June 20, 2019.
SUNDAY, Av 10, July 29, 2012, is also LEO 8 and Temple Entrance (Isa 63) 30 days past the Return is LEO 1, the span of 2550 days as the 2550 YEARS from 583 B.C. Destruc Temple to 1967, Temple Mt Reclaimed.
Pre-Rapture span is Jan 19, 2012 (end of the 355 days/1-yr warning/from Jan 29, 2011 UFO) to July 29, 2012 (Rapture). That span is 192 days which is 5 mths/as Noah in Ark til exit (tilted earth Greg calendar count of 152 days) plus 40 days (flood span).
SUNDAY is count beginning for trib to start/& Rapture to occur since count begins on Sunday AND all other events relating to the Church occurred on a SUNDAY.
The Thur, June 20, 2019 RETURN minus the 23-day loss is a TUESDAY (“Israel to be RAISED UP on THIRD DAY”….Hos 6).
When one looks at the projected date with the -23 considered, the trib actually spans TAMMUZ 17, 2012 to AV 10, 2019.
The Pyramid timeline of SUCCOTH 2011 (TISHREI 22/last day) to SUCCOTH 2018 (TISHREI 22) still holds as well. Succoth had 6 days of 70 sacrifices (for the 70 nations), finished by Hoshana Rabah (7th day) and celebrated as finished on the 8th day (Tishrei 22). This was the LAST DAY a TRUMP BLAST was blown. Tish 22 was also Jesus’ Circum Day (because on the 8th day after birth, prothrombin/Vit K kicks in and blood clots).
Of course SUCCOTH 2018 is the perfect END of all the Fig Tree Patterns (that Jesus told us to watch) as reviewed before: 120, 100, 80, 70, 90, 50 & many others….which cannot be debated whatsoever.
Looks like SUNDAY to me……just seems so clear. Now we wait……………..J.H.
Hey Jan,
I sure hope you’re right about tomorrow. That other link’s prediction for a rapture today looks like it’s going to be a bust. Doesn’t feel like rapture weather anyway. But there’s still a few hours left. So who knows.
Actally, it’s already sunset in Jerusalem, so Sunday is already here.
Well, I’ll let you know If the rapture makes it to California.
Got my fingers crossed…
a,
In regards to Babylon, I misspoke earlier, it does not refer to an actual city at all only the paganism that started with Baal worship in ancient Babylon and infiltrated the Roman Catholic Church in its early days in the Roman empire. So they are related, but not the same.
There are so many references to Babylon in the bible it is possible to assign many meanings to it, but If God is going to destroy it before marrying His true church, it must refer to all the non-biblical practices in today’s churches, including pagan holidays and Sunday worship.
As for Sunday worship being the mark of the beast, I get that from Daniel:
Dan 7:25
And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
He is speaking of the False Prophet (or the Antichrist to most) as part of the Holy Roman Empire.
The Vatican (little horn of Daniel) claimed the pope was God, killed millions of Christians in inquistion, and lasted 1260 years. (time and times and the dividing of time).
And the only law that has anything to do with time is the fourth commandment, which the Vatican thought to change – and it worked all too well, to this very day. God wouldn’t have mentioned it If weren’t going to be important in the tribulation, but everyone just ignores it.
But If you take it seriously, it can only mean one thing. It is a big part of Babylon and it must be eradicated before Jesus takes His throne.
Now I know you don’t believe in common sense and would rather deconstruct the verses and look for hidden meanings that only a few people could ever decipher, but I would rather go with the obvious. The bible is not supposed to be a CSI Jerusalem screenplay. God wants to save as many souls as possible, not just a clever few.
It seems that scripture was written to allow several possible interpretations depending on your biblical point of view. I am comfortable with my interpretaton because it feels like something God would want to do, based on what he has done in the past. This is why I reject the rapture. God always protected his flock through tribulations, he never took them away then sent them back later.
We will receive protection for the 3-1/2 year tribulation on earth in a place determined by God.
Just as good as any old rapture.
Hope to see you there If we‘re both still around by then.
Bless.
This is the last speculative scenario as I refer with trepidation to a very possible WED, Av 13, 2012 RAPTURE….still absolutely amazing in many respects:
Jan 19, 2012 (355 days/1 Jewish yr/Jerem 51:46/1-yr warning past Jan 29, 2011 UFO/Rev 11) to a WED Aug 1 RAPTURE (Av 13 LEO 11) is 195 days. LEO is the ‘LION’ and #11 is judgment and the Rapture is judgment w/ the anger of a LION.
195 days is 120 days (4 mths to ‘Harvest’ of the Church/as 120 yrs to build Ark) plus 75 days (120 + 75 = 195). The 75 on THIS side of the trib is in GRACE and the 75 days on the post-Return side will be in JUDGMENT (the 30 days mourning + 45 days judg of Nations = 75). The two 75’s will ‘cancel’ each other out.
Mid trib, when a.c. satanically ‘RISES’ is JAN 12, 2016 and minus the 12-day calendar discrepancy is DEC 31, the original solar anniv of the 8th Day after the Kislev 24 Creation (of Haggai 2). Know that the COUNT of CREATION began on the 8th Day because Jesus’ Conception occurred on the anniv of CREATION week….that of the 8th Day….but seen as Creation Day/Kislev 24. The 8th Day was TEVET 1, the Jewish anniv day of Jesus’ Conception (because +280 = Tish 15).
Tevet 1 would be a likely day for Satan to indwell the a.c. upon his ‘resurrection’ just as the Holy Spirit indwelt Mary at the Conception of Jesus (immaculate conception).
The RETURN according to the above thoughts would be CANCER 1, June 23, Sunday, 2019. Cancer is the 11th sign (grip of the CRAB/parasepea…eggs protected/Remnant calls Jesus back), the sign of judgment/no escape. 30 days mourning later (on July 23) would be LEO 1, the day Jesus enters the Temple as KING w/ the Remnant (Isaiah 63). His first entrance into the Temple on a donkey was in submission & humility as a LAMB, and His next Entrance, 30 days after the Return, will be as a LION.
The SIGNING was likely SUNDAY, AV 10, LEO 8; and 2550 days later (when Jesus enters the Temple) is LEO 1. These 2550 days match the 2550 yrs destruction of Temple 583 B.C. to 1967. So Signing to Jesus’ Entrance into Temple is LEO 8 to LEO 1, 2550 days. 2550 is 2520 plus 30.
The DIVINE VICTORY in the mts of Israel still looks like an AV 15 event (Aug 3) and plus the 7 mths burying/bldg 3rd Temple brings the date to MARCH 3, 2013…..then plus 2300 days (+3 uncounted mid-trib days when a.c. is dead just as Jesus’ 3 days in tomb were not counted as God told the Jews to count the 49 days from the SUNDAY after Passover to Pentecost) brings the date to the RETURN of Sunday, June 23, 2019, CANCER 1 (Sivan 19).
Minus 22-23 days as the earth straightens brings the date back to IYYAR 27 (the anniv of June 6, 1967/Jerusalem Reclaimed); so that may be a significant point (52 Jewish yrs Temple Mt ownership).
As for the 280’s on each side (‘spiritual gestation’ of Church & Remnant), Yom Kippur 2011 (the day of ‘decision/forgiveness’ from which one must start) plus exactly 280 days is Tammuz 20, then plus 23 more days (which will MINUS in both cases) is AV 13.
TRIB span is also AV 13, 2012 to AV 13, 2019, end of trib w/ the -23 considered and remember that Av 13 minus 23 days is Tammuz 20 which is the end of 280 days from Yom Kip.
The fact that the SIGNING may have been on Sunday, AV 10 (July 29) denotes that day as another day of extreme JUDGMENT, much like the 8-10 other tragedies which occurred on Av 9 or 10 for the Jewish people. The SIGNING is the beginning of the first 1260 (a.c. ‘keeps’ covenant w/ Israel); and the signing is the start of the 2520-day 7-yr trib.
The 2nd 1260 is the ministry of Elij & Moses til their murder when a.c. ‘rises’ and the 3rd 1260 (Petra Protection for the believing Jews) is the day a.c. is killed until the Return. Of course the 1290 spans from the day a.c. is killed to the day Jesus enters the Temple (Isa 63) and the 1335 spans the same day (a.c. killed) to the end of the trib.
World chaos along w/ the N.Invasion of Israel will quickly take place during the 2 days from Av 13-15 with the likely Divine Victory in Israel’s mts (Ezek 38-39) on Av 15, an historical day of great blessing & worthy of heavy study.
Sundays are again across the board: SIGNING, mid-trib ABOM of DESOLATION and the RETURN.
EVERYTHING still fits before, during & after w/ respect to the various spans, etc; and the Rapture should still take place in the yr 5772 (now) and last until the yr 5779 (& as per the Pyramid timeline). This is the mth of Av that the aged/dying Rabbi Kaduri spoke of as well in his review of Jesus’ personal visits to him in his dreams (“…..your old men shall dream dreams……”…?). After all, all truth came out of Israel in the first place and God apparently & understandabley still speaks through His covenanted people.
So everything I can think of still connects with the RAPTURE on AV 13, Wed, Aug 1, Leo 11.
I’ve figured so many different Rapture days (because I’m so sure that the subject is to become ‘clearer’ because of what the Prophet Daniel said) that I’m a bit weary of this study; but I hate to give up just in case this present view of the scenario materializes thusly. I only write to a few prophecy sites, open-minded people who also watch the calendar/current events/the great Fig Tree….etc closely; and I hate to give up on them when there may be facts worth pondering……J.H.
Hey Jan,
Greeting from heaven!
I guess you were finally right. The rapture really WAS today!
I’m sitting in a heavenly internet cafe having some wine and manna. Who knew God has WiFi?
Well, I hope you made it. This joint is filled with 7th Day Adventists. Seems God isn’t too happy with Sunday worshippers. Go figure.
At least now you can finally stop all those crazy calculations and take a well-deserved break.
Gotta get going… there’s a party at Daniel’s place later so I have to get ready.
Later Dude,
Jim
The Sabbath is the 7th day, God’s Holy Day of rest and it always will be. But During the Age of Grace God’s Holy Day has been a whole NEW day, OUT of earth’s system of 7’s. Creation occurred on the 1st day (SUNDAY) and the count began on the 8th Day (a SUNDAY)…. Jesus’ conception day…. because +280 was Jesus’ birth. His conception was immaculate, new, Heavenly, from another domain/dimension, eternity-based……one dealing with EIGHT. His conception was on the 8th day of the 8th Feast because Creation (Kislev 24) is the 8th Feast, 8 days long. The 8th Feast was NOT commanded to be observed by the Jews……but only seven. The reason is that the 8th Feast deals with Heavenly things……newness, perfection, sinlessness, eternity…………and our earth is still dealing with sin…..thus the 7 Feasts. Everything about Jesus is an EIGHT……888 in Greek #, after 8000 yrs New Heaven & New Earth, 80 Jubilees from Creation to Jesus’ Birth, 80 yrs age of Moses at start of wandering, 8th Day Jesus’ circumcised, 8th Day Jesus Arose, 80 yrs peace under David & Solomon, 800 is Omega (“I am the 1 & the 8”), bldg block of Creation/Hydrogen is 1.0080, etc. etc. …..on and on. EIGHT deals with Jesus and He is not from this earth; but during this Age of Grace (until the Church exits) we are privileged to experience EIGHT, which in our case is a SUNDAY.
Everything on earth is 7’s……….7 colors in spectrum, 7 days in wk, 7 notes in scale, all mammal gestations divisible by 7, 7000 yrs until New Heaven & New Earth….& SO many more. There are thousands of Biblical SEVENS.
Jesus IS every FEAST and fulfilled each to the DAY and His earthly START was on the EIGHTH FEAST…..His Conception.
Palm Sun was SUNDAY, Jesus’ Resurrection was SUNDAY, Pentecost was SUNDAY…………all because a NEW DAY came into existence for this earth……an EIGHTH DAY.
During the Millennium SABBATH will again be observed as each week’s Holy Day; but during this Age of Grace, SUNDAY is observed because of the above.
The Adventists are wonderful believers but they don’t need to discredit Sunday worshippers because the whole picture needs to be understood. I admire them, though, that they value the law in all of its strictness, behavior that the Reigning Messiah will again institute during the Millennium in many respects.
J.H.
Spoken like a true Roman.
Too bad you weren’t there to tell Jesus and his apostles to keep the 8th day. You know, as an example for Christians to follow.
Seems you gotta be genius to figure out what God wants us to do.
Thank goodness we have people like you here to figure it out for us.
(Except for that rapture stuff).
🙂
Hi Malia,
There was no where to respond to you above.
I am glad that you liked the link.
John Parsons is a very dear friend of mine and his website is a wonderful resource.
Thanks for all that you say above, but all the Glory goes to God. I just attempt to follow the new heart that He has created in me over the years.
If it was just up to me…….. well, lets not go there. lol.
But thank you.
Blessings to you in the Lord of Glory, Yeshua HaMashiach our Precious Savior as well Chaverim.
Love,
a.
It’s such a privilege to study the NUMBER 8 that I wanted you to know the additional 8’s as well, at least the one’s I’ve come across.
NUMBER 8: NEW, HEAVENLY, ETERNAL, SINLESS, SOMETHING OUTSIDE OF THIS WORLD’S SYSTEM OF 7.
8 is a NEW day, 7 in a week
8 is a NEW color, 7 in spectrum
8 is a NEW note, 7 in scale
8th Feast, Creation (when all was perfect, no sin)
8th Feast Conception of Jesus (because +280 is Succoth, His Birth
8th Feast is 8 days long (Temple Dedic/519 B.C. Haggai 2/real Hanukkah)
8th day blood clots (prothrombin)
80 Jubilees (4000 yrs/80 x 50) from Creation to Jesus’ Conception
8000th yr New Heaven and New Earth (Greek ‘new’ means new in atomic structure)
8th day Flood began
8th day (Sunday) Jesus arose
8th day Jesus brought to Temple to be circumcised (8 days old)
8th day (Sunday) Jesus rode into Jerusalem on donkey (Palm Sunday)
8th sign in the Mazzarot is LAMB (Jesus)
8 on its side = INFINITY in math (Jesus is from everlasting to everlasting)
8 is only number, when writen, that has no beginning or ending point
8 people saved in the Ark
8th son of Jesse was David
80 yrs Moses at beginning of leadership over Hebrews’ 40 yr wandering in wilderness
80 yrs Peace in Israel (40 David, 40 Solomon)
800 is ‘Omega’ in Greek (Jesus said, “I am the FIRST/1) and the LAST/800)
888 total of Jesus’ name in Greek letters (only Hebrew and Greek have number for each letter)
8 and 1, atomic weight of the bldg block of all physical creation (hydrogen 1.008)
8th day, SUNDAY, was Pentecost
8 min for light of sun to reach earth
10,080 miles radius of combined diameter of earth and moon
1,080 miles radius of moon (4 x 108 = 432,000 radius of sun)
8880 hours Noah and family in Ark (370 days x 24=8880)
88,800 mi diameter of Jupiter, a HYDROGEN planet, and rotates 888 times in an earth yr
8 is first cubed number
8.1818181818 to infinity = Grand celestial cycle of the sun = 25,920 yrs divided by 3168 (another whole study)
888 sq ft. area of Tabernacle
8 x 108 = 864,000 miles diameter of sun
8 Beautitudes on Sermon on the mt
……….We’ve barely started! There are SO many more amazing 8’s, way too many to list.
And lest we forget, a pizza is cut into 8 slices!
YUM!!
And the great Creator, the 888 Himself, is the One Who MADE the hand that cut the pizza consisting of the ingredients that He created with the metal tool formed from the rocks that He spoke into existence and gave the human the mental ability to count to 8 followed by the digestion that only functions because “all things consist/hold together by His power”……YES, it’s a GREAT thing to cut that there pizza into 8 slices (unless there’s 9 hungry people!).
Here is all that fits a Thurs-Fri AV 14-15 RAPTURE date:
Tish 22, 2011 (last trump day/last day of last feast) plus 280 days (Church’s spiritual gestation) + last 7-day warning is Av 14-15.
Jan 29, 2011(Rev11 UFO) plus 355 days (1 Jewish yr) to Jan 19, 2012 was the 1-yr warning (Jerem 51:46).
Jan 19, 2012 plus 4 months (Jewish or perfect 30-day mths), then plus the 75 days (that matches/cancels out the post Return 75) is Av 14-15. This 75 is in GRACE, & the post-Return 75 is in JUDG.
Mid trib (a.c. satanically ‘rises’) is Jan 13, 2016. Minus 12-day calendar discrepancy is Dec 31, the original solar anniv of the 8th day of the 8th Feast (8th Day after Creation/Jesus’ concep Tevet 1/+280 was Succoth, His Birth) because Kislev 24 was Dec 24, Creation Day.
Jan 13 minus the tilt loss of 23 days (Isa 13:13, 24:1,19,20) reverts back to Dec 22-23, 2015, TEVET 10…..Fast Day of 10th mth ‘turned to joy.’
Jan 13, 2016 (minus the tilt loss) is Dec 22-24, CAPRICORN 24, the original KISLEV 24, December 23-24, of HAGGAI 2. At Creation when the Mazzarot matched God’s calendar (orig Jewish yr/360 days), Capricorn 24 was Kislev 24, Dec 24.
Our present calendar is 23 days off since the earth enters each of the 12 Mazzarot signs (Virgo thru Leo) on the 23rd of each mth. But when the earth is straight, the earth will enter on the 1st day of the mth and both calendars & the Mazzarot cycle/ 360 days each/ will be synchronized.
Return at June 24 is CANCER 1 because when you minus the 23 days, you revert back to June 1. Cancer is, of course, the 11th sign (crab), that of JUDGMENT.
June 1, 2019, plus the 30 days mourning (Zech 12:10, 13:6) is JULY 1 which is exactly 2300 DAYS PAST NISAN 1 (Mar 14, 2013), when the Jews start 3rd Temple Worship (Dan 8:13-14). July 1, 2019 is the day Jesus enters the Temple w/ the Remnant to RECONSECRATE the Temple.
Ezek 45:18 states that the Temple is to be cleansed on Nisan 1; and after the 7 mths burying bodies and bldg 3rd Temple in Jerusalem (approx Elul 1, 2012 to Nisan 1, 2013), the Jews will again adhere to the Torah Law and start their 2300 days of Temple worship (desecration) with the start at Nisan 1, 2013, Mar 14.
July 1 (2019), Jesus’ Temple Entrance/Reconsecration is also LEO 1, the sign of the conquering LION of JUDAH, as He leads the procession from Petra up to Jerusalem (Isa 63). Leo is the 12th sign and #12 is ‘perfect gov’t.’
The RETURN at June 24, 2019, minus the 23-day tilt loss is IYYAR 28, YOM JERUSALEM, the 52nd Jewish anniv of the reclamation of the Temple Mt in 1967, the biggest Fig tree event in modern history (June 7, 1967).
The COUNT of AV 10, SUNDAY, July 29, 2012 still holds because nothing can be counted as valid until the next SUNDAY; thus the Av 10 fulfillment of that 5th mth FAST Day holds. Also if the -23 is considered ahead of the actual tilt loss of the 2019 earth straightening, then Av 10 reverts back to TAMMUZ 17, the FAST DAY of the 4th month “turned into joy.”
With the above in mind, all 4 FAST DAYS/Zech 8:19 (will have been ‘TURNED to JOY’ by the end of the trib:
AV 9-10, 2012 possible SIGNING, 3 days before Rapture, to make up for the 3 mid-trib uncounted days
TAMMUZ 17, the projected -23 date back from Av 10 when the earth is straight
TEVET 10, mid trib when the projected -23 date back from Jan 13, 2016.
YOM KIP – already turned to joy at the cross when the veil to the Holy of Holies tore.
The entire trib ends (2019) AV 15, AUG 15, VIRGO 15 and all will be balanced.
What more can I say?……If it’s not this Thurs or Fri, BEATS ME!!!!!!…………..J.H.
Are we the only two that didn’t get raptured?
I’m still here. LOL
I hope not Thursday – I’ve got stuff to do.
DJ and All,
The following are some things that I came across in 2008, following our economic crash. DJ is the one who seems to be discussing this more than anyone else and is the reason I addressed this to him specifically.
I believe that there are at least four events, I am not saying there are not more, which portrays what I perceive to be a clear path to our economic demise. I am just going to give the information without any commentary. I would like to know what any of you might think concerning this and why, even if you think it is foolishness. I will give my understanding of all this after a brief period, giving anyone who cares to respond time to do so.
These are the four events that I see as pivotal for the undoing of the US economy:
The Federal Reserve Act- passed and signed into law on Dec 23, 1913 which is the Hebrew date of Kislev 24-first day of Chanukah.
It is pretty much agreed upon that there have been 3 major stock crashes since the Dow Jones Industrial Average has been in existence. They are as follows: October of 1929; Sept-Oct of 1987; Sept-Oct of 2008.
The following are the dates of the Feast of Trumpets and Yom Kippur for the dates above:
1929-Feast of Trumpets (Tishrei 1-2)=Oct 5-6 (two day feast) Yom Kippur (Tishrei 10)=Oct 14
1987-Feast of Trumpets (Tishrei 1-2)=Sept 24-25 (two day feast) Yom Kippur (Tishrei 10)=Oct 3
2008-Feast of Trumpets (Tishrei 1-2)=Sept 30-Oct 1 (two day feast) Yom Kippur (Tishrei 10)=Oct 9
The information concerning 2008 I learned from others, which peaked my curiosity about the other economic crashes of 1987 and 1929 and the debacle of 1913.
The following links are to DJIA charts for the years listed above. Run the cursor over the charts and find the dates of the Feasts and notice the patterns that form. If you are not serious to understand these things, or not willing to invest a little time, don’t bother. It will be wasted on you.
One thing to remember, in the Hebrew language there is no word for “coincidence”. It is not a kosher thought that Yah’s people are left in the hands of randomness (non-order; non-coherence). Also, bear in mind that each new day begins the evening before. For example, Feast of Trumpets in 1929 actually begins in the evening (at dark) of Oct 4th and ends in the evening (at dark) of Oct 6th.
Another interesting side note; there has been a saying with those who trade in stocks which says “to buy on Feast of Trumpets and sell on Yom Kippur.” Would have worked perfectly in 1929 and 1987, but something changed in 2008 (hint). Another interesting fact is that the largest drop on the DJIA took place on Sept 29th of 2008 (777.68 point drop) which was Erev Feast of Trumpets
.
I would also like to say that I am very aware of all the different scenarios that seem to come together so well in end time theology making everything even more confusing. I have commented on this in the past. I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. Just looking for some “constructive” feedback.
Be Blessed
http://investing.money.msn.com/investments/stock-charts/?compsyms=&D4=1&DD=1&D5=0&DCS=2&MA0=256&MA1=0&CP=1&C5=12&C5D=31&C6=1928&C7=12&C7D=31&C8=1929&C9=-1&CF=0&D7=&D6=&showchartbt=Redraw+chart&PT=7&symbol=%24us%3AINDU&SZ=0&nocookie=1
http://investing.money.msn.com/investments/stock-charts/?compsyms=&D4=1&DD=1&D5=0&DCS=2&MA0=256&MA1=0&CP=1&C5=12&C5D=31&C6=1986&C7=12&C7D=31&C8=1987&C9=-1&CF=0&D7=&D6=&showchartbt=Redraw+chart&PT=7&symbol=%24us%3AINDU&SZ=0&nocookie=1
http://investing.money.msn.com/investments/stock-charts/?compsyms=&D4=1&DD=1&D5=0&DCS=2&MA0=256&MA1=0&CP=1&C5=12&C5D=31&C6=2007&C7=12&C7D=31&C8=2008&C9=-1&CF=0&D7=&D6=&showchartbt=Redraw+chart&PT=7&symbol=%24us%3AINDU&SZ=0&nocookie=1
Al,
I agree – there is no coincident within Scripture and with our life.
When we understand/comprehend that our ways and our thoughts are not His ways or His thoughts, then there is a deeper appreciation for Faith, Hope and Love.
He is God and we are not. So, there is no coincidence – there is purpose with every action and reaction. It can be a challenge to grasp “spiritual reality”. I just read the Word and let His Word speak to me.
“Seek, inquire for, and require the Lord while He may be found [claiming Him by necessity and by right]; call upon Him while He is near…‘For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways’, says the Lord. ‘For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts. For as the rain and snow come down from the heavens, and return not there again, but water the earth and make it bring forth and sprout, that it may give seed to the sower and bread to the eater, so shall My word be that goes forth out of My mouth: it shall not return to Me void [without producing any effect, useless], but it shall accomplish that which I please and purpose, and it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it’” (Isaiah 55:6-11, Amplified Bible).
As for the Fed Reserve, history of market crashes and Hebrew Feast days – here is additional information.
“A rapid and severe downturn in stock prices occurred in late October of 1987. After five days of intensifying stock market declines, selling pressure hit a peak on October 19, known as Black Monday. The Dow Jones Industrial Average (DJIA) fell a record 22% on that day alone, with many stocks halted during the day as order imbalances prevented true price discovery… And while the crash began as a U.S. phenomenon, it quickly affected stock markets around the globe; 19 of the 20 largest markets in the world saw stock market declines of 20% or more (investopedia.com).
Critical information for what was learned in 1987 and what is taking place now.
“Investors and regulators learned a lot from the 1987 crash, specifically with regards to the dangers of automatic or program trading. In these types of programs, human decision-making is taken out of the equation, and buy or sell orders are generated automatically based on the levels of benchmark indexes or specific stocks. In a disorderly market – humans are needed more than ever to assess the situation and possibly override imprudent market thresholds” (investopedia.com).
Notice the article tells us that there are human fingers on the button to stop automatic trades from taking the market down – down – down. Nice feature – security right?
Someone is watching the market with a finger ready to stop the drop so that what happened in 1929 (human reaction to a trend of selling off, leading to massive sell orders manually coming to the floor of the NYSE), and the 1987 automatic program trading system that brought a rapid sell off can now be stopped by authorization/authority. Someone (very small panel) in NY, someone in London or whatever stock exchange stops the action before it becomes a panic.
The market is now “controlled” or “managed”. This is not 1929, 1987, or the market of post 9/11.
There is someone (small panel) watching and ready to interject with market orders on behalf of (say the Fed Reserve) or other interested parties at any time necessary. This finger can stop trading on the floor, preventing a “crash” or prevent it from spreading from NY to Tokyo to Hong Kong to Frankfort.
This next market crash will be “approved”, “authorized” or allowed to take place. I think (this is speculation on my part), a few very large international investors already pulled out of the market very deliberately, slowly over the past several months.
The knowledge of this pending “crash” has been around since the last one in October 2008!
I know of one investment banker working with at least one very large international corporation and associated Dutch family (not to be named here), that implemented an investment/protection strategy for his exclusive portfolio over the months of 2010/11. I learned firsthand the asset protection strategy and the timeline for implementation. They expect the crash and secured very very large capital investments and currencies (international not just US).
In my opinion, the stock markets is a big fat bubble pumped up by Fed Reserve policy. Those making a profit off of a rising market (and a down market) are watching Fed policy statements. When the Fed or the EU central bank says “we support capitalization”, then the market rises accordingly (confidence?).
In my opinion, there is no free market. The stock market is managed and being managed. This is not 1929 in many respects but it is another. God was in control then and is today.
Now, back to Scriptures – God has a plan and He has the whole world in His hand. Those individuals managing markets/trading and currency (this is objective of the 3rd seal), think they pull the strings? Nope. The seals of Revelation open when He says or said “open”.
The 3rd seal fully opens (my educated guess), on a Hebrew Fall Feast day or a Hebrew day of significance in the next few weeks. Pick one. There are 3 within short period of time, beginning September 16, 2012 and ending October 21, 2012. There are a few other important dates occurring the weeks that follow Oct 21, 2012 too.
You know, we need an October surprise for this national election so that “he” who rides the white, red, black and “pale” horse can keep on “conquering”.
See these two website for more information on Hebrew Holidays:
http://www.jewfaq.org/holiday2.htm
http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Holidays/holidays.html
I remain confident that the 4 Seals of Revelation are in the process of opening.
The first seal began opening in 2008, but officially opened with a “crown” (prize) given on October 9, 2009 (Feasts of Tabernacles / 8th day). That is no coincidences.
The 7 year period of Daniel’s timeline started on a significant Hebrew Feast day and the 7 year period ends on a Hebrew Feast day (Trumpets, Atonement or Tabernacle). The “rapture” (gathering up) occurs at on one of those dates too.
The second seal is “Arab Spring”. This seal opened on December 17, 2010. December 17th is not my date, it comes from this website and well documented calendar of Arab Spring events. That is no coincidence. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Arab_Spring
December 17, 2010 is the Tenth of Tevet, Asarah BeTevet. On this date, Nebuchadnezzar (Babylonian king), began the siege of Jerusalem. Therefore, the second seal opened on a significant date in Hebrew history and continues today in Syria.
The third seal is opening with the EU crisis and we may see the official opening (by way of the above Hebrew Feasts or minor fast dates) during the next few weeks.
Now, with all this writing/speculation of a crash – if you have a 401k, 403b or other investment consider moving to a cash fund.
A cash investment will not lose much of anything in terms of investment interest over the next 3 months. But, what you could “save” is about 40% should the market value of stocks drop. I expect/suspect a significant drop one way or another.
Consider moving to cash – get safe, more secure than risk within the “market” for the next few months. Then, watch your investments with cash ant not in stocks. You can always get back into the market of stocks/bonds after January 1st.
Besides, what comes in February to March 2013 is more important in the long term. This is the 4th seal opening and “he” is revealed as The Beast. Purim (February 20-23) is a good Hebrew date to keep an eye on.
Al (and anyone else that read all the above), get your vessel ready. Be a wise virgin and read this link and replies to the latest post on Heaven Awaits.
https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/house-that-stood/
Blessings,
Hey DJ,
Enjoyed the informative post. I will be out of pocket until the first part of the week. Will respond to you then.
Be Blessed Brother
Jan, much of what you present does not fit what I’ve come to understand. But, you write within your long post – “start their 2300 days of Temple worship (desecration) with the start at Nisan 1, 2013, Mar 14.”
How did you get to this date for the start of Temple worship?
That month/year and event does fit one of the important points in the 7 years of Daniel’s timeline.
Please explain.
Thanks
Wow, someone has a question!….Yipee! Anyway, the Jews (Israelis) will desecrate the 3rd Temple (i.e. apply ashes of the red heifer on Nis 1 and perform live/blood sarifices) for 2300 days according to Daniel 8:13-14. The final blood sacrifice (Jesus) was already offered which imputed God’s righteousness upon humans & paid for all sin (mercy!….what a gift!); so now any blood offered in a new Holy of Holies is DESECRATION and SACRIILEGE. If the Temple is desecrated, it has to be RECONSECRATED (made holy again) when Jesus ENTERS the Temple 30 days after His Return (mourning is over). It’s amazing that the exact 2300-day span begins on Nisan 1 of 2013 because that’s the commanded day of the cleansing of the Temple in Ezek 45:18. The Israelis will think it is their duty to obey this command because they will think that this is the Temple for Messiah’s presence (not Jesus). After the Russian invasion of Israel via Syria and the accompanying Divine Victory in the mts of Israel (within 2 wks), there will be 7 mths of burying bodies and bldg the 3rd Temple; then plus the 2300 days reaches the exact day (July 1, 2019) 30 days past the RETURN with the -23 considered. Remember, I’m only speculating, so don’t ‘sweat’ over it……..J.H.
Okay – so you are moving back from 2019 to find March 2013 as the date Temple worship begins.
Please consider watching the presentation that is linked within the attached web page to compare your concepts with someone with equal passion to find answers to similar questions.
http://www.danielstimeline.com/gallery1.htm
You will find agreement on March 2013.
Blessings
If this timeline is correct, the Antichrist has been in power for 3 years after the historic peace treaty with Israel. So where is he and where is the New World Order he is supposed to be in charge of right now?
Seems you are building a prophetic theory on a few bits of history and are ignoring 99% of the rest.
Call me a skeptic but…
No, just call me a skeptic.
Al,
Nice research!
Ya, this economic/market crisis looming was the first indicator I had of first 4 seals opening – that was back in November 2010. Learned of the coming crisis/crash/shift from an investment banker briefing to a select audience (I was invited but dont have the 1.4 million to participate in the strategic plan presented).
Then, there came out a report (Stansberry) that confirmed what I heard.
Next, I asked the Lord for some clarification – “what is this all about?”
All my postings here – everything came after asking Him that question.
So now – the Euro is in real trouble – Spain is hitting defalt mode with Greece and Italy is close behind. They can’t make it work – a new system is required to salvage banking (debt/lending and cash/transactions).
The Fed can’t keep printing paper to buy paper much longer – the Chinese and the world are not buying it any more. They are protecting against inflation.
A new currency system will emerge out of crisis.
The third seal is economic/currency – it is inflation that brings out the market scales.
This third seal needs to open up before “he” is revealed and the forth (“pale” follows after him).
I wrote on the 4 Seals last year as posted in Heaven Awaits – poor writing style for a blog post, sorry. But, the research/case is worth reading.
So, I am still looking for the market crash and world economic/currency shift to hit (once again) in that season of Feasts.
This could be a real big surprise – just before the US election.
Thanks Al.
Blessings.
DJ,
Hey brother,
My email is on the fritz for the next couple days, (can’t receive, can’t send etc.). But I have been meaning to ask you…….
If the tribulation is well under way as you believe, “Where are the Two Witnesses”?
Just wondering how that fits into as you see things unfolding bro?
a.
Praise be to the Glory of God the Father, and to our Worthy and Precious Savior, Yeshua HaMashiach the KING of kings.
Amen.
The FOURTH TEMPLE (Millennial Temple) will ‘raise up as a plain out of the ground’ a bit north of Jerusalem proper somehow when Jesus returns (probably as the Mt Olives splits). This 3rd Temple that the Jews are going to build is the TRIBULATION TEMPLE……a TERRIBLE THING! The Israelis are going to adore the anti christ because he will keep peace for Israel for the first half of the trib and foster their success in finally building their 3rd Temple. Don’t you know that the Jerusalem Temple Institute Cohenim have everything ready for Temple Worship? They’re just waiting for the ‘go ahead.’ Only after the Rapture will the live sacrifices be again permitted. The Millennial Temple (4th one) is a whole different thing (WITHOUT a Holy of Holies).
I would guess that once the rapture occurs, the whole world will realize that the true God is the father of Jesus and the Jews will all repent and realize their mistake.
Or maybe no one will be missed.
Who knows.
Alienated,
The 2 witness will be here after “he” is revealed as the AC. The witnesses do their work for 1260 days, then it is the end of the tribulation and the end of the age (Matthew 24:28-31).
I expect the AC to be revealed between Jan-March 2013.
Jesus said we will see “the abomination of desolation” (Matthew 24:15) and “woe to those new born Christians” and those that are taking care of them (verse 19).
He said, “I am with you always, even until the end of the age”. Amen. (Matthew 28:20).
He tells us that we will see the abomination. I now understand that to be “after winter and before Sabbath” 2013.
The wise virgins are prepared for this – they are not “new born” living on milk ( 1 Corinth 3:1-3) and are comparing spiritual things with spiritual, which the HS teaches ( 1 Corinth 2:13-16).
When the witnesses are known to us – the wise virgins say “Glory!” (Psalm 29).
While the foolish virgins (Christians by name only) are running around looking for the keys to Kingdom and trying to buy or borrow something that is priceless (Proverbs 23:23).
Brother, it is about the spiritual Kingdom (Romans 14:17) and the keys to bind and loose – and more during these last days.
We overcome him by our testimony (righteousness, peace and joy in the HS) and His righteousness (Glory) and the Blood of the Lamb (Rev 12:11).
How did His garments become so “white”? Glory.
How do we change our filthy rags into pure white robes? Glory.
What is this light that we have and are to walk in and renew our mind with? Glory.
What is in that vessel which lights the lamp – carried by the wise virgins? Glory.
What is this Glory? (Listen to Handle’s Messiah chores, which is a pleasant way to hear the Word and gain a deeper/fresh understanding this Glory in magnificent music/singing.)
It is the Kingdom and when ya got it – ya got Victory.
Focus more on the Kingdom because the AC comes first. Then, He comes for the wise virgins who have figured it out (Proverbs 23:23) and are worshiping Him in the house. They “seek first the Kingdom…”
Blessings
Hi DJ,
I see this all unfolding differently D.
First, the beast could possibly be know throughout the world today, as a leader, (or whatever somewhere).
This would then makes some sense to 2 Thessalonians 2:3., “Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;” which implies that he will be revealed, AFTER the apostasia, (or falling away of what many consider, to be referring to as change in Gospel orthodoxy). The word “apostasia” is only utilized one other time in N.T. scripture and it has been translated within the KJV. as “forsake”, in Acts 21:21., where Paul was informed, (by probably James), that; “And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to “forsake” Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise [their] children, neither to walk after the customs.” which was a drastic change to Judaic orthodoxy.
The above could also be possibly confirmed by the beginning of 2 Thess. 2:7. as well, “For the mystery of iniquity doth already work:”, yet the latter portion of that verse also describes a sequence of events by stating, “only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way.” With verse 8 continuing, “And THEN shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:”
So above we clearly have two (2) events that must take place before the “son of perdition” will be FULLY revealed.
1) The apostasia, or drastic change in Gospel orthodoxy which was taking place in Paul’s day, and continued with the false doctrine of the Catholic Church when it hijacked the faith.
2) Some event in which a “power” that is capable of holding this satan powered son of perdition, is taken away somehow. Since the topic within this chapter is regarding a “gathering” as stated in 2:1., sound reasoning would suggest that this “power” that is capable of holding back satan, and the “gathering” would somehow be associated.
(For others that have difficulty in accepting a pre-trib rapture theory, consider the following for a second. Paul was caught up to heaven and taught by Yeshua Himself. (2 Corinthians 12:1-4.) He would have also had ample opportunity to discuss all of what he was taught with the other disciples. These disciples would then have confirmed what he had to say with the Spirit, and either accepted or denied it as heresy. No where within the N.T. is Paul rebuked by another disciple regarding his theology. Rather he is supported by them. (2 Peter 3:15,16., would be one example.)
It is clear by what Paul writes within many of his epistles regarding eschatology, that he possessed much of the same knowledge that John was directed to write about in the book of Revelation. So again it is not unreasonable in the slightest to assume that this information wasn’t shared amongst the Apostles, with the common goal to edify the church. Therefore, having confirmed this teaching through the Spirit, all of the Apostles would also now share in this information.
Paul speaks about a “gathering of believers”, (that which withholdeth), which takes place prior to the “son of perdition, or beast” being fully revealed.
And since it is reasonable to assume that Peter also shared this same information, (the same information that was then written down by John in the book of Revelation at a later date), what the heck was Peter saying, (in having that knowledge, and the time frames that are revealed within Daniel 12:11,12.) throughout 2 Peter 3:3 – 9. ?
He said that there would be scoffers in the last days, (I won’t mention anybody in particular), that would say, “Where is this promise of His coming? Because everything appears to be continuing on just the same as it has from the beginning. ”
Peter then says that these are willingly ignorant of the word of God, where it is written that long ago the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water, and that by these waters the world was also destroyed. But by that same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. (Which this would support that Peter also had eschatological knowledge.)
After making a statement regarding time, he then states, “The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.”
The promise above would be in reference to Yeshua’s COMING but not that of His Conquering Coming at the end.
Because 2 Peter 3:12., is translated and written as;
“Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?”
The English “wherein” above is derived from the Greek “διά”, transliterated as “dia” (Strong’s 1223). It is a preposition and is defined as “1) through. b) of time; “throughout”. c) of means; “by means of”. 2a) “the ground or reason by which something is or is not done.”
So this PARTICULAR COMING would be the CATALYST for the next phase to take place, and would tie in directly with Paul in both 2 Thess. 2:6,7. regarding the “gathering” and the sequence of events that are expressed in 1 Corinthians 15:23 and 24.
“But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming. THEN [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.”
And if Peter isn’t referring to this pre-tribulation gathering, then why did he also bother to say in 2 Peter 2:9., in talking about false teachers;
“The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of “temptations”, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:”
Which coincidentally the word that was translated into “temptations” above, is exactly the same Greek word that Yeshua used in Revelation 3:10. and means, “trial or proving”.)
Sorry DJ, I got a bit side tracked there. lol. But my point is that I do not believe that the true and faithful Assembly will be here to see the “son of perdition” revealed. The “wise virgins” get to go in the first resurrection, gathering or rapture. They will be accounted worthy. (Luke 21:36.)
Then there will be those that will be left behind, the “foolish virgins” and the Saints from the church of Smyrna, (which have a special mission).
Regarding the Two Witnesses; I believe that they appear after the Temple has been rebuilt. Nowhere in scripture does it say that they start prophesizing right at the very beginning, but scripture would indicate that it wouldn’t be at the end, (Amos 3:7.), and the fact that when all of what is described in Rev.11 happens, it is only the fulfilment of the second woe.
You say that Yeshua tells “us” that we will see the “abomination of desolation” that is expressed in Matthew 24:15.
Does He really?
Matthew 24:15 would now indicate that the second half of the 7 year period of the tribulation is now going to begin, with the “abomination of desolation” being set up. This is recorded in Daniel 9:27., 11:31., and 12:11, 12. which reads;
“And from the time [that] the daily [sacrifice] shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, [there shall be] a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Blessed [is] he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.”
In Matthew 24: 16 to 20 a warning for those that are in Judaea to flee to the mountains is given.
Why does Yeshua provide such specificity here regarding a warning for only an Israeli area that are told to flee? And is this recorded anywhere else in scripture?
In Zephaniah 2:1-3., the Lord God tells those of Israel that are meek and have upheld His justice, to gather together before His fierce anger comes upon them, so that they can be hidden. In Revelation 12:6., the Woman, (which is Israel as defined by Genesis 37:9,10.), flees into the wilderness, (see Isaiah 65:10., Hosea 2:15. and Zech.14:5.) where she has a place prepared for her by God for 1260 days. (also Rev. 12:14).
I believe that these will consist of the “chosen remnant” of the nation of Israel. (See Isaiah 1:9., 10:20-22., 11:11,12., Jeremiah 31:7. etc. etc.)
Verse 21 now confirms that the tribulation has commenced and will now “ramp up” in intensity.
In verse 22 the English word “elect” is utilized and many regard it as referring only to the church. However from the above, would that be accurate?
The English “elect” is derived from the Greek “ἐκλεκτός”, transliterated as “eklektos”, (Strong’s 1588). The definitions of the word are far more broader than simply that of the Church, and include anything, be it and individual, or any group of people, that are “chosen by God”.
God also gives blessings and punishment, therefore if God “chose” someone to have blessings it would be written in the New Testament Greek as “eklektos”.
If God “chose” someone to be punished, it would be written in the New Testament Greek as “eklektos” as well, and would simply be translated into English as “elect”.
So who are the “elect” in verse 24:22.? And do we have prophecy in the Tanakh that describes this “elect”?
Lets look at the Hebrew word “בָּחִיר” transliterated as “bachiyr” (Strong’s 972), which is defined exactly the same as “elect” or “eklektos is in Greek” as being, “chosen, choice one, chosen one, elect (of God).”
Within 2 Samuel 21:6., we see that the English “did choose” or “bachiyr”, refers to those that are chosen for “punishment”.
Yet within 1 Chronicles 16:13., we see that “bachiyr” is utilized in the good sense; “O ye seed of Israel his servant, ye children of Jacob, his “chosen ones”.”
The word “elect” in the New Testament can be referring to exactly the same thing, being “chosen” for blessings, or punishment. Eklektos in Greek simply means “chosen”.
As stated above, isn’t this elect the “remnant”? And other than the prophecy that is recorded in Zephaniah and Revelation that I quoted above, but with the bible being “cyclical” were events repeat themselves over and over again, there is also David in Psalm 106 specifically verses 5 and 23.
In Isaiah there is 43:20., 45:4., 65:15 and 22., and particularly that of Isaiah 65:9;
“And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and “mine elect” shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.”
Wouldn’t this “seed” refer to the seed of Abraham consisting of “faith” and the testimony of Yeshua, (Rev.12:11), and as described in Revelation 12:17.?
Her “seed” being the 144,000 that were sealed and also having the testimony of Yeshua?
And couldn’t possibly these days being shortened refer to Daniel’s prophecy of a total of 1335 days, being shortened to Johns prophecy of 1260 days?
As I see it, (but that doesn’t mean that I am totally correct), the first Seal that Yeshua opens will be after the first Resurrection and Gathering.
That this “gathering” will consist of the “end of this age” and be the catalyst and beginning of the Tribulation and Wrath.
It makes no sense to me to beat up your bride first, after she has already proven herself as a faithful overcomer of the world before you marry her.
Though we see things differently, Be Blessed in Yeshua HaMashiach our Precious Savior.
Our Holy and Glorious KING of kings and LORD of lords.
Amen.
a.
Alienated,
Are you suggesting that Jesus is a poor teacher?
You write above –
“Sorry DJ…I do not believe that the true and faithful Assembly will be here to see the “son of perdition” revealed. The “wise virgins” get to go in the first resurrection, gathering or rapture. They will be accounted worthy. (Luke 21:36.) Then there will be those that will be left behind, the “foolish virgins” and the Saints from the church of Smyrna, (which have a special mission).”
Alienated… Oh, I get it!
The disciple He was talking with was of the Smyrna branch of “The Disciples of Christ Church”.
Out of the 12 disciples hearing the answer to their question – He was just addressing the one guy that would be His disciples to just one of the 7 Churches? Sure.
You know that Christ is Head of His Church and that includes all 7 in Rev. chapters 2-3.
He warns 6 and keeps Philly from “the hour of trial, which shall come upon the whole world (everybody), to test (the other 6 are tested and for what purpose?) who dwell on the earth.”
Notice He uses the word “world” and “earth” in one sentence? Could there be a reason? Don’t go there yet – there are other questions for you first.
Please consider that He will protect, provide those “believers” of the Philly church to teach/ lead those that were a part of the synagogue of Satan during the Tribulation.
Even the Philly church has a part during the “last days” and does not exit via “rapture”.
Could it be that some of the foolish come to learn and “worship” under the leadership of Philly believers who are kept from (not out of or removed) from the world during the time of “trial”. What does this trial mean? The other 6 “churches” get to be under a period of “trial”? Hummmm? But Philly has a vessel with enough oil?
As for the Catholic Church as “The false church” – okay, fine.
But, I can think of dozens of Protestant churches (I’ll not name names), that preach a different Gospel, and/or are led by spirits that are not quite Kosher.
There are foolish virgins to be concerned about in Catholic and Protestant buildings, sitting under false teachers and wolves in sheep’s clothing.
Alienated? So what is the “cry” heard by both wise and foolish virgins (Christians) causing a foolish “Christian” to say –
“Oh my! I’m not prepared for anything that will require more oil than I’ve got in my little lamp” (they are small lamps).
Then, these foolish (while astonished at the cry, assessing the situation and their condition) have the presence of mind to ask the wise (who are standing right there in body and soul) for help and get none by selling to them (Proverbs 23:23).
Remember, the wise (Philly too) are present when and after the cry is heard.
Seriously, what would that cry be – so wakening its news that He is coming that causes foolish virgins to be so upset about a lack of oil (Proverbs 23:23)?
Now, it must take some time to “buy” oil (Proverbs 23:23) and they go looking because they realize He is now coming. Really know – no guessing or theory or interpretation of “rapture” in doubt now. They are now “awake” and aware.
Jesus gives us the answer – Clearly!
“When you see the abomination of desolation…”
So, while they “seek” oil (The Kingdom of Heaven and His Righteousness), He comes to the house and the door shuts behind Him.
They are left outside with the wicked to be burned up at the end of tribulation – when it gets really dark outside without “oil”.
Christ comes at the last trumpet and we who are wise (Kingdom first), overcome (Rev 12:11), and endure (“reign with Him”) do meet Him in the air (rapture).
Alienated, are you suggesting Jesus is a poor teacher?
Is His answer to a straight up question (by followers of Christ) that they (followers) do see the abomination of desolation.
Al, one more thing – when deciphering Paul’s end of age gathering and trying to support a “Pre-Trib rapture” event – please include Romans 2:5. Paul specifically uses key words “day of wrath” and “revelation” – this does match up with his discourse on His return and believers not being in darkness about the matter. These verses ( in context) apply to the end of the age and His soon return for His bride without spot or wrinkle.
Always a pleasure to exchange replies with you. But, I’m out of “oil” (Proverbs 23:23).
Do you see how important that verse is?!
One final point and it is significant. Never mind, I’m tired.
Blessings
Psalms 27
Hi D,
Nope I’m not suggesting the Yeshua was a poor teacher at all.
If anything I would be saying that we as students are the one with the flaws.
The disciples asked three (3) specific questions in Matthew 24:3., “When shall these things be, (or, When shall there be no stone left standing of the Temple), “what” will be the Sign of Your coming, and the end of the age?” Yeshua then answered theses questions and spoke to ALL of His disciples.
But here is my opinion regarding the “elect” within the following passages of this chapter;
1) Christianity was and is not a new religion, but is a fulfillment of what God the Father spoke about through His prophets. Therefore if anything, it is Judaism with the understanding that Yeshua is the promised Messiah, the King of the Jews.
2) When Yeshua answered the disciples questions, Israel and Jerusalem, (by what He said within the text), were the specific areas of concern, and relative to the disciples questions. (“When” shall there be no stone left standing of the Temple, “what” will be the Sign of Your coming, and the end of the age?”)
Being Jews themselves, they wouldn’t have been concerned whatsoever about any of the surrounding nations. They believed that He would be Messiah ben David and that He would re-establish Jerusalem and eliminate the Roman occupation.
3) The disciples at that time “still”, (though Yeshua had already told them that He was going to die previously), did not fully understand that. So the English word that was expressed within the disciples question and translated into “Coming” in verse 3, (the transliterated Greek, “parousia”) would have been referring to “When are you going to reveal Yourself, conquer the Romans, and re-establish Jerusalem under your rule?”
(The disciples at the time wouldn’t have understood Yeshua’s prophetic answer regarding that question at all.)
4) The Assembly, (which would be later referred to in English as the church), didn’t even exist during this conversation. And would not come into existence for another 50 plus days on Shavu’ot. Nowhere within the text of Matthew 24 does Yeshua mention anything regarding His ekklēsia, or Assembly. Though He does mention His Assembly previously within Matthew in 16:18 and 18:17. So why its omission here in chapter 24?
5) And when the Assembly or Church did come into existence, the only members of the Way, were Jewish until some 15 to 20 years later when Cornelius and his household were the first Gentiles to become members of the body. These and all of us that are Gentiles that believe that Yeshua is our Salvation and the Messiah, are “a branch of truth grafted” into the “root” and are not the root itself.
6) God still has unfulfilled Covenants with Israel.
7) The text regarding “fleeing”, ties in with Revelation 12:6 and 14., Zephaniah 2:1-3., Isaiah 65:10., Hosea 2:15. and Zech.14:5.
So, with this and the above that I provided regarding the definitions of the word “elect”, I believe that it is only because of years and years of brainwashed replacement theology that people associate the word “elect” within these particular passages as referring to the church Assembly. Whereas by the context of the text themselves, they would refer to those of Israel that have been chosen to understand the truth of Messiah at a future date.
Ponder on the above for awhile D.
I have to head out and I’ll address the rest hopefully later on tonight for you.
Be Blessed in Yeshua HaMashiach our Holy and Precious Savior and KING of kings.
Amen.
a.
brief reply – then back to sleep.
So, He clearly says “When you see…” and proceeds to describe what happens afterwards (following verses) and that is not clear, specific enough. Wow.
He answers directly – without any clarification as to the audience that would read His words (this answer is only for these and not those) – “you will see”.
So, the “cry”, which is heard by all, is not a shofar trumpet and the rapture…what else could it be?
I propose and confident that it the seeing/witness to the events of the AC. That knowledge would certainly cause both wise and foolish to realize “The Lord is coming soon!”
Then, the foolish panic as the wise read Psalm 27, 28 and 29. I expect to witness the 7 Thunders too and say “Glory!”
Please read those psalms as if you just heard the “cry” as a wise virgin that you are.
We disagree on the topic. I shall not persuade you and you not me. The topic and questions will be answered soon.
Always good to exchange perspectives/views of His Word with you. Even our communication styles bring a different perspective!
“For the Glory of the Lord shall be revealed (at the end of the age) and all flesh (that is wise and foolish) shall see it together (both), for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it” (“and lo, I am with you until the end of the age”). George F. Handle captured, as best a human in the flesh could, the power of that moment in Word and music.
Blessings to you.
Well D,
We see things and interpret scripture differently.
I happen to see within scripture, a significant amount of information that suggests a pre-tribulation rapture for some.
This topic was a passion of mine in which I concentrated all of my energies on for over a year, and accumulated enough to start to actually write a book on the subject.
Then I go through that experience a couple of months ago now, where I had Visions again, with the significant one being Revelation 1:3 in the King James text.
“Blessed is he that readeth , and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein : FOR THE TIME IS AT HAND.”
This Vision was accompanied by and audible voice that loudly proclaimed the above.
Then the Spirit had me re-translate “for the time is at hand” by utilizing the original Greek and the root word etymology, in which the results of that were;
“FOR THE TIME WHEN THINGS ARE BROUGHT TO CRISIS, AND THE DECISIVE EPOCH THAT THOSE THAT ARE CLOSE TO GOD HAVE WAITED FOR IS NOW!”
To me, I understood DECISIVE (conclusive, definitive, putting an end to controversy) and EPOCH (a notable event that marks the beginning of a distinctive period), to be referring to this “gathering” rather than to being the beginning of the Tribulation. That this “gathering” itself, is “An End Of An Age”, and is first in a sequence of events as being the catalyst for the next stage to begin and unfold.
As for me, I don’t doubt for one second that had an encounter with the Living God, (the fact that it began on my 40 year anniversary in being “born again”, the 40 day period that then preceded the Visions, and the 40 day fast which I had no intention whatsoever in doing, just adds validity to this as far as I’m concerned).
So I as a follower of the Lord Yeshua, believe that I have heard from Him “first hand” regarding all of this. Therefore there is nothing that man could say that could possibly change my mind. (debate is pointless.) I believe as well that I was obedient in posting all that I have posted regarding what I experienced, omitting nothing no matter what the consequences would be regarding my reputation or credibility here.
We see things differently D.
Nonetheless I know that your heart is for the Lord.
So it is my wish that you be Blessed in the Grace of Yeshua HaMashiach our Holy and Precious Savior.
I am going to take a sabbatical from here for awhile. I have asked for the Lord our God to show me what His will is for my life.
I am looking forward to what He may lead me to.
With that, Take Care.
Blessing to all. May Yeshua hold all of you tight and close to His heart.
Praise the Majestic and Holy KING of kings and LORD of lords.
Amen.
a.
I just want to make a few logic comments here. I’ve noted that you use the word “possibly” a lot. In other words you must make certain assumptions in order to make your points. And you know what they say about “assume.”
You also talked about a certain “omission” in Mat24. This is my other point. If there were to be three resurrections, why didn’t Jesus just say so? He had many chances to teach of an early rapture, yet he never did. (Same applies to hell).
And look what Jesus says after His return:
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
This could not be clearer. There are only two resurrections. The first when He returns, and the second on the Great White Throne Judgement day. In case you don’t understand the term “second death” it refers to the fact that at the end of the millennium there will be a second resurrection of everyone who did not qualify for the first one of the elect. Those who are found unworthy at that time will be destroyed (in the Lake of Fire) which will be the second death for them.
Note they die, they do not burn for a jillion years in hell. THERE IS NO HELL!
Now perhaps you can tweak the greek words for “first” and “second” so they really mean “second “ and “third” but If you can’t I’m afraid you’ve been beaten here, regardless of what the Holy Spirit (or whatever spirit) has told you.
Too harsh?
Well, that’s just me.
Be blessed in your studies my brother.
James,
I sure do appreciate your insight, it is always enlightening.
Within my first post to DJ above dated August 3rd. 2012. @ 12:10 am., I utilized the word “possibly” a total of 3 times in a post comprised of 2007 words.
Within my second post dated August 6th. 2012. @ 6:43 pm. “possibly” was not utilized once out of a post comprised of 600 words. And within my final post of August 7th. @ 1:24 am. the word “possibly” was utilized again 1 more time within a post consisting of 499 words.
So I happened to utilize the word “possibly” a total of 4 times out of 3106 words. If you happen to consider that to be an exorbitant amount, (or a lot) of times, then that would be your problem. But it certainly in my opinion, wouldn’t be classified as a logical observation to comment upon. But whatever “floats your boat”.
In respects to your other question regarding the “omission” and as to “why” Yeshua didn’t just come right out and make the whole story clear from the start.
I have addressed this before numerous times;
1) Satan is the adversary here within this spiritual battle and he can read, but not fully understand scripture. One normally doesn’t offer full disclosure of their military tactics to the enemy before hand. (You might, but its not advisable.)
2) Within the Gospel message itself and throughout the New Testament, there is a significant amount of warning to maintain steadfastness in the faith. This is the responsibility of the believer in being able to be an overcomer. It is also a way to separate the wheat from the chaff. If the full and complete outline of events were revealed, then Yeshua could not come “like a thief in the night”. Everyone would have a complete timeline available at their disposal to decide as to when to perhaps become “born again” because they would know that the time would be short. This would not only be mocking God, but would also significantly decrease the value of Yeshua’s Holy sacrifice.
Regarding the rest of what you pose. We have gone back and forth regarding this for ages. What is the point? Both you and I have stated our positions before. What would be the point to simply do it all over again? Frankly I have better things to do with my time.
I will however respond to that “link” that you posted on “Signs in the Heavens” before I leave here, since I said that I would for you.
Are you too harsh? Not in the least.
I have had discussions with those that live in trailer parks, get excited over demolition derby’s and enjoy the thrills associated with bingo before.
I can handle it like water off a ducks back.
Will I miss you while I’m gone?
“Possibly”
a.
I strongly disagree with your statement that Satan is not expert in understanding scripture. Satan has been around since before there was scripture and I believe he understands every word. He has been hard at work for millennia getting humans to improperly understand it. He has tricked them into thinking God’s laws have been cancelled and that it is OK to worship statues and break the Sabbath. I’m sure He’s been tempting many to lie, steal and kill as well.
But If you are right, you have done God a great disservice here by revealing the truth to Satan who may be, right now, reading this blog. If loose lips sinks ships, you have surely sunk us all.
Thanks a lot.
😦
Fact- satan does not have the Holy Spirit.
Fact- Scripture was inspired and written by the Holy Spirit.
Fact- The Holy Spirit is necessary to decipher scripture.
As I have said before, If he did fully comprehend scripture then WHY would he have entered Judas’s heart to start the ball rolling to have our Lord crucified?
He had no clue that the Father would use the Son as the one time Glorious and Worthy sacrificial Lamb for sin and Victory.
Regarding what I may or may not write in regards to anything being perhaps a disservice to the Lord.
I can assure you that I am more than cognisant as to what I may reveal and do not reveal.
Why do you think that throughout scripture, (including the Tanakh) that parables were utilized?
Why do you think that Yeshua described and explained one particular parable in such detail to his disciples so that it couldn’t be misconstrued?
I would of course be referring to Matthew 13:24-30., and its explanation in 13:36-43.
As I said, I will respond to your link on the “Signs in the Heavens” page before I leave here.
If it is God the Fathers desire, then I’m sure that He will send someone else here to contend with you shortly. (Who knows, it might just be me again you lucky tyke.)
However, after fulfilling all that I believe that I was instructed to reveal regarding the Visions etc. I am just taking some time away to seek His will for me first.
a.
You know, I’m not really sure of what point you are trying to make here. You claim that Jesus didn’t come right out and say there would be a “secret” rapture so that Satan would never find out. But all Satan has to do is watch Benny Hinn or Jack Van Impe and he would know by now, so that logic does not work. Also, I’m not sure why God would be afraid that Satan would discover the rapture. Could he stop it somehow? Can he thwart prophecy? Of course not. And he knows it. In fact he knows he has but a short time, and his fate is clearly revealed in the Book of Revelation, so he already knows he is going to fail, so God has nothing He needs to hide from Satan.
So, sorry but Jesus had no excuse not to make it clear that he would come in advance to retrieve the church, only that He would provide protection during the tribulation.
I’m about to read a book on this topic (Rapture vs. Protection) so I’ll let you know how it turns out.
More later…
Does anyone else have problems understanding all of the above?
There you go again Jim;
I never said, nor did I claim, “That Yeshua didn’t come right out and say there would be a secret rapture so that satan would never find out.”
I’m pretty sure, (that satan at least), understands that a gathering will take place based upon scripture. What I did say, “was that the timing of many things have been kept secret to a certain extent, and that the reason for this is because it will separate the wheat from the chaff.”
Yeshua refers to Himself as being a “thief” in Revelation 3:3. and Matthew 24:42-44., (for just one example) He refers to Himself again as a thief, and said that If you knew what hour the thief would come, you would have watched and not allowed for your house to be broken into.
Why do you keep rambling on about a rapture above? My last post to you of August 8th. @ 6:29 pm. above say’s nothing about a rapture?
The context in answering the question that you had posed previously was regarding whether or not satan could understand scripture, and the aspect of the separation of the wheat and the chaff.
You say “that Yeshua had no excuse not to make it clear that He would come in advance to retrieve the church.”
Well you can take that up with Him when you see Him. I believe that the reason as stated above is made quite clear within scripture numerous times.
Hey, good luck with that book.
I’ll stick with the Word of God myself.
This is my last response to you, (at least for awhile).
So you can ramble away to your hearts content unencumbered if you like.
a.
“Glory!”
“And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it” (Isaiah 40:5).
Sounds good in all languages!
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?v=c-0n0rVaUUk
Here’s more spec if you’re up to it; and for what it’s worth, the info below fits a SATURDAY RAPTURE, Av 16, August 4. I’m not into it anymore, but maybe you are. I’m sure Aug 4 will pass with nothing happening, but it’s still sort of interesting……..oblivion has already set in since Saturday already started:
mid trib (1260 past Rapture) = SATURDAY, Jan 13, 2016, Capricorn 24. Jan 13 minus the 13-day calendar discrepancy is the solar anniv of Tevet 1, Dec 31 (orig 8th day after Creation Day/8th Feast/the day satan covets…..Jesus’ concep day). CAPRICORN 24 is the original KISLEV 24 and DEC 24 of Haggai 2…….i.e. satan enters the ‘risen’ anti-christ Jan 13, 2016 and the tumult of Hag 2 (2nd 1260)begins (Great Trib).
3 days later, Jan 16 (Elijah & Moses rise/murdered 3 days earlier on Jan 13 when a.c. ‘arose’ indwelt by satan) minus 23 days is Dec 22, TEVET 10…..Fast Day to joy/projected.
SATURDAY/Rapture………SATURDAY/mid trib……..SATURDAY/Return………all SABBATHS (as per Millennial re-institution of Sabbath as the weekly Holy Day). SUNDAY was the Day of Worship only during the Age of Grace because the great number 8 entered earth’s system (earth functions on #7) because of the great 888/Jesus’ Resurrection on an 8th day instead of a 1st Day. I reviewed the great 8’s previously.
RETURN (2520 past Rapture and 1260 past mid trib) SATURDAY June 29, 2019, Cancer 8, minus the 23-day tilt brings the earth back to SHAVUOT, June 9, Sivan 6, Cancer 11/double judgment (as -23 +3….i.e. -20 days because the straightening will probably take 3 days to make up for the 3 mid-trib ‘uncounted’ days). In reference to SHAVUOT, 2019, GRACE began on SHAVUOT and will end on SHAVUOT (earth straight).
1-yr warning was Jan 29, 2011 (Temple Mt UFO) plus 360 days (1 perf yr) is Jan 24.
Jan 24 plus 4 Jewish mths/118 days = 4 JEWISH mths/”to Harvest”/also as Noah’s 120 plus 75 more days (75 in Grace) to match the post-Return 74 (in JUDG).
AV 9 (also Olympics start) plus the last 7-day warning is Av 16, Aug 4, Saturday…..7th day/day of REST. Av 9 minus the projected loss of 21-23 days is TAMMUZ 17, FAST DAY to joy. (spec)…..AV 9, 2012 is ‘turned to joy’ as the last 7-day warning (as God closed door of Noah’s Ark 7 days before the flood began…..JOY/God’s guaranteed protection). Av 9 is also the end of 280 days ‘spiritual gestation’ of the Church beginning at Tish 22, 2011, last day/last Feast/last trump blown. The 280 is Jewish mth count.
Rapture +10 days is Aug 14, LEO 24 (12, 12, 12)……Divine Victory in mts of Israel (Ezek 38-39).
Plus exactly 210 days (7 perf mths burying bodies/bldg 3rd Temple in Jerusalem) is NISAN 1, 2013 (Mar 12), start of 3rd Temple Worship (Temple Desecration Dan 8:13-14) plus exactly 2300 days (Dan 8) is the RETURN, Sat, June 19, 2019.
End of trib (when the 2 calendars & the Mazzarot are synchronized….360 days each…..is Virgo 19, Aug 19, Av 19 (as per Rev 19?….#19 an interesting study)…..if applicable.
As per the above, all 4 FAST DAYS will have been ‘turned to joy’ if thought of according to the above points.
Rosh/Yom Kip, 2019 will not be reached, thus the COUNT STAYS at Yom Kippur 2018 (5779); and minus the 17 ‘uncounted yrs’ as reviewed before, Yom Kippur 2018 is really Yom Kippur 2001 (all Jub’s start on Yom Kip), the start of the 121st Jubilee/start of 7000th yr, exactly where it should start, end of the 6,000 full yrs (120 Jub’s) promised to fallen man by God in Genesis 6:3.
Again, all is accurate as pertains to the three 1260’s, the 1290, the 1335, the 7 mths burying, the 2300, the 2520, the 2550, the FAST DAYS to joy, the 5772 – 5779 Pyramid timeline, the start of the 121st Jub, and of course all of the Fig tree patterns that end perfectly at 2018, etc.
There’s nothing else to speculate at this point as I refuse to venture into the possibility of Rosh Hashana…..etc………J.H.
.….Nope.
As my ‘hutzpah-ridden’ SPEC continues, SATURDAY, Aug 4, Av 16, WAS surely the cut-off point…..the likely SIGNING. The following info FITS TUESDAY, 3 days later as the RAPTURE. Daniel said that the day would “become clearer” and Paul said we would “SEE the day approaching;” thus I’m taking them at their word.
This SATURDAY, the probable SIGNING Aug 4, Av 16, plus 1260 days (a.c. ‘keeps’ covenant) is Saturday, Jan 15, 2016, CAPRICORN 24, which, minus 23 days future loss is DECEMBER 24, the original solar KISLEV 24 (CREATION DAY/later called the 8th Feast)……..Haggai 2….abomination of desolation/a.c. breaks covenant/killed. Satan detests the 8th Feast as he wanted to take credit for Creation AND he hates the 8th Feast, the 8th day thereof which was Jesus’ conception.
The ‘signer’ (some European leader/I’ll be ‘dumbfounded’ if it’s Obama) will be UNrevealed until after the Rapture. You know that we have the 3-day overlap when we’re dealing with the 2520 days because of how the three different 1260 spans work. The 3-day overlap also deals with the 3 mid-trib UNcounted days.
Saturday, Av 16 is 7 days past Av 9; thus Av 9 was obviously (to me) the last 7-day warning before the signing. SIGNING starts the 2520-day trib.
3 days after Aug 4 is TUESDAY, Aug 7, presumed Rapture on a 3rd Day (Tues, 3rd Day, ancient wedding day & Hos 6:2-3 if applicable).
2300 days Temple Desecration (Dan 8:13-14) past NISAN 1, 2013 (Temple Worship is commanded to begin according to Ezek 45:18) is the RETURN, Saturday, June 29, 2019 (CANCER 8/11th sign, 8th day/’judg of Jesus’)…..if applicable.
Pre trib: Jan 29, 2011 (the 1-yr warning/Jerem 51:46/Rev 11 Temple Mt UFO) plus 360 days is Jan 24, 2012. Add exactly 4 Jewish mths/118 days (“to Harvest”) plus 75 days to arrive at Saturday, Aug 4 Signing. The pre-trib 75 is in GRACE and the post-trib 75 will be in JUDG (‘cancel’ each other out).
If one perceives the 4 mths as 4 Gregorian months, then there are 121 days plus the 75 to Tues, Aug 7….works both ways.
30 days of mourning after the Return is LEO 8 (LION/Jesus/Conqueror leading Isa 63 procession up to Jerusalem) and all other post-Return spans are same as last letter including the ‘settling’ of the earth (straight) on Siv 6, Shavuot when all is figured (Sunday, June 9, 2019).
Of course there are still the 280 days (spiritual ‘gestation’ of the Church) spanning SUCCOTH 2011 (which had to start its count from a Sabbath/”first day shall be a Sabbath & the 8th Day shall be a Sabbath”…..study) is 280 days plus the tilt # (22-23 days) to Aug 7.
The 2550 holds well from the Signing, Leo 15 (middle of 12th sign/Jesus=Lion of Judah) to Jesus’ Entrance into the Temple 30 days after the Return on Leo 8…..a 2550-day difference as the 2550 days from Temple Destruction in 583 B.C. to 1967, Temple Mt Reclaimed.
Remember that Israel’s Chief Rabbi Isaac Kaduri/age 106 met the Messiah in a several dreams (“….your old men shall dream dreams…..”) and said (on his death bed) that Messiah would come in the Jewish year 5772 (this yr) in the month of AV (now). Tuesday is already Av 19. If Kaduri by chance was a secret believer, then God could conceivably speak such knowledge through him for the sake of the Church. If #19 is to be noted, Rev 19:1 speaks of Jesus’ Second Coming…..if applicable.
So TUESDAY is just perfect and nothing is lost. All the patterns still hold and of course the count ends at Yom Kip 5779/2018. The year Yom Kip 2019/5780 won’t be reached. Yom Kippur 2018 minus the 17 ‘uncounted yrs’ is Yom Kippur 2001, start of the 121st Jubilee. Jubilees (each new span of 50 yrs) were commanded to start on a Yom Kippur. God promised 120 Jubilees in Gen 6:3 which is 120 x 50 (6000 FULL yrs). One doesn’t have to study much to see we are definitely at the end/and beyond of these 6,000 full yrs; thus there are some ‘uncounted’ yrs to consider.
All is accurate with: the three 1260’s, 1290, 1335, 2300, 7 mths burying, 2520, 2550, all patterns ending at 2018…..etc.
From the Rapture/Tues Aug 7 there are 7 days N. Invasion of Israel & Divine Victory in mts of Israel (Ezek 38-39) plus 7 mths burying (210 days/7 x 30) plus the 2300 to the Return…………………..7 + 210 + 2300 = 2517 and plus the 3 days from Signing to Rapture is 2520 total. I have yet to see that one can venture out of God’s prophetic end-time spans since His math is perfect. I read some articles that are SO strange as various writers perceive the spans.
Nothing else remains misunderstood at this point. Blessedly, oblivion didn’t take its full hold as I’m looking toward TUESDAY with renewed and confident anticipation……at least as far as MY study is concerned. For all I know, no one believes ANY of the above. At least it keeps ME fascinated……….J.H.
Nope.
Only read below if you are one of those rare people who are constantly watching w/ mega intensity (you don’t want to know them!); and here’s how I see it now……….and remember, it’s all speculation:
Jan 24, 2012 (end of the 360 days/1-yr warning from Jan 29, 2011/Jerusalem UFO) plus 196 days is TUESDAY, Av 19, Aug 7, the likely SIGNING/Tues as ‘Ketubbah marriage agreement.’ 196 days is a total of 121 days (4 Greg mths…..”to Harvest”…..as Noah’s 120 yrs & the orig 4, thirty-day mths of 120 days) +75 days (in Grace/pre-trib) to match/cancel out the post return 75 (in Judgment/post-Return).
Yom Kippur, Oct 8, 2011 plus 303-304 days is TUESDAY, Aug 7. 303 days is 280 plus 23+ (potential tilt loss when earth straigtens at the Return/also consider Feb’s extra day this yr/leap yr day & normally not counted). 280 is the ‘spiritual gestation’ of the Church (very understandably starting on Yom Kippur/day of decision for the world) and 23 is the tilt# that will minus at the Return as the earth straightens to a 360-day-yr as at pre-flood. Yom is the starting date as that is the day forgiveness was offered to the world and also the day that a 50-yr Jubilee span was commanded to begin. It is also the only Fast Day that has already been turned to joy when the Holy of Holies veil tore at the end of the crucifixion.
Three days after Tues, Aug 7 is Friday, Aug 10, Av 22, the probable Rapture which is also 7 days (last warning?) past Av 15 (tu b’Av).
NISAN 1, 2013 (Mar 12/Tues)…Ezek 45:18…still starts the 2300 days of Temple Desecration ending at the Return, Tuesday, June 29, 2019, CANCER 11 (11,11). 3 extra days are in that span because the 3 mid-trib days won’t be counted just as Jesus’ 3 days in the tomb were not counted in the 49-day count to Pentecost.
Return is TUESDAY, 3rd DAY (Hos 6:2-3) exactly 2520 days past TUESDAY, Aug 7, 2012, the possible 7-yr pact signing (signer unrevealed until after the Rapture).
Mid trib is now Jan 18, 2016, Tues, Shevat 8 (a.c. stops sacrifices/breaks covenant/sets self in Temple/killed) to Friday, Jan 21,2016, Shevat 11 (a.c. satanically ‘rises’/kills Elijah and Moses who rise after 3+ days. The Jewish Calendar is eternal; thus the horrific and satanic indwelling of the ‘risen’ a.c. matches such a calendar day…..that of SHEVAT 11, double 11/double judgment. At present, a day to be observed by the Jews does not exist in the eleventh mth. Study the Biblical number 11……amazing significances connected w/ judgment.
Mid trib minus the projected loss of 23 days does take the date back to the last days of December 2015, and only back as far as Dec 27…..still in the solar anniversary WEEK of the original Kislev 24 to Tev 1 (which was originally Dec 24-Dec 31/CREATION to count start on 8th day/Tev 1)…..and thus the Hag 2, Kislev 24 review still holds. After all, the Kislev 24 count began 7 days later anyway (Jesus’ concep anniv). That’s the only way the tumult of Kislev 24 in Haggai 2 can be explained in my opinion.
Mid trib, when the a.c. ‘rises’ is also Fri, Jan 21, 2016, which is also AQUARIUS 1; befitting the ‘AGE of AQUARIUS’ that has been promised by the ‘New Agers,’ etc. for many years (demonic promise for earth via Satan).
The most significant span at this point is that the Rapture plus the trib span (2517 days/and the 3 days from signing to Rapture make up the other 3 days, equalling the full 2520), is that the RETURN minus 23 days is SUNDAY, SHAVUOT, June 9, Sivan 6. In other words, Grace BEGAN on SHAVUOT and ENDS on SHAVUOT (because the 7-yr trib is NOT counted/Satan’s yrs). Thus earth will be STRAIGHT on the BIRTHDAY of the LAW and the BIRTHDAY of the CHURCH.
After the Rapture on Friday, Aug 10 plus 4 days world chaos amidst the N. Invasion of Israel (Ezek 38-39), the 7 mths of burying bodies/bldg 3rd Temple in Jerusalem (7 perf mths = 210 days) will end at NISAN 1, 2013 (when Temple Worship begins/ashes of Red Heifer/Ark of Covenant/Ezek 45:18….etc). Then +2300 days reaches the RETURN at Tuesday, July 2, 2019.
Following 4 days of post-Rapture chaos (+ the N. Invasion of Israel) is the Divine Victory in Israel’s mts Tuesday, Aug 14, LEO 24 (12,12,12/also 12,888)….go figure.
The spiritual ‘gestation’ period for the Remnant also spans Yom Kip, 2018 to the end of Tammuz as well; and interestingly there is a 3-day difference between the 280-day span on the perfect 360-yr calendar and that of the Jewish calendar. So if you are into figuring, there is a 3-day difference therof and the Remnant’s spiritual gestation period ends on Tammuz 30, 2019 (Isa 63/into Temple w/ Jesus after the 30-days mourning) whereas the spiritual gestation period of the Church on THIS side of the trib ends at Tammuz 27. Remember that the Church and the Remnant are both the BODY of Christ and are in need of the spiritual gestation just as Jesus’ 280-day physical gestation period in Mary.
You can be sure that anyone who sees the Fig Tree signs clearly and all the accompanying spans, etc MUST see that there simply must be an explanation for such a DELAY up to the Rapture. After all, there are 23 verses implying that we can KNOW the day…..of 3 days, of course, since each day encompasses 72 yrs on the whole earth. Yom Kippur is the day the GREAT TRUMP/TRUMP of GOD is blown and it is the LAST TRUMP because at the end of that day (in ancient Israel) the chances for forgiveness were over. Thus the Church’s ‘waiting period’ has been Yom Kippur, 2011, plus 280 days, plus an additional 23 days that will minus anyway.
The RETURN is CANCER 11 (11,11) and 30 days later is LEO 12 (12,12)…..indeed interesting.
That’s it; so keep your hopes up until Friday if you’re into this frenzy (I sort of hope you’re NOT); and if you are beyond all of this and just READY and waiting w/out all of the above details, you’re even better and wiser……………J.H.
Here’s my prediction:
Nope.
Hey, Jim… you were right!
Below are some comments as I ponder & react to the OLD EARTH THEORY (I believe in the young earth/6000+ yrs) with thoughts about what the food chain (which involves constant ‘death’) could have been at Creation, a GREAT puzzlement to me. Know too that I think a belief in an Old Earth (millions of yrs) is damaging to the believer as the theory encourages belief in evolution (which gravitates to atheism).
The first thing that died after the fall of man was the slain animal killed by God (1st time blood was spilled/perhaps a lamb……who knows!) to cover Adam and Eve. Before sin, blood wasn’t shed.
Mosquitoes suck our blood for the oxygen (40% (?) less oxygen than before the fall/flood, etc); and before the fall, WHO knows how they behaved……perhaps buzzing/singing to humans. Bees make honey, sting if bothered; but who knows what ELSE they could have been made for that has not yet been observed?…..honey and much more!?
In the Millennium a child will play at the hole of an asp (poisonous snake); but to play with snakes could involve them crawling comfortably (as a massage) all over a person (could be fun)…..or hanging from trees in beautiful designs. Anti-venom material is an example of how the toxic substance of the killer snake is a healing material as well.
I actually think that our fallen, sinful mind (even though we are saved) CANNOT even PICTURE PERFECTION.
Every thought that comes out the human mind, believe it or not, is sin and selfishness; but thankfully our INTENT to accept the blood of Christ and our INTENT to follow the Lord is honored by God and we are COVERED by HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS!……a greater privilege than we realize! But WE are not perfect and do NOT understand perfection.
After the fall, thorns grew on the rose bushes and on the cactuses; animals changed their behavior for survival’s sake.
At Creation, everything was meant to last forever and we cannot even begin to picture such a system. There was no decay and everything stayed new and eternal. The fall of man into sin changed the way EVERYTHING worked.
At Creation the plants were given for food; but the food was digested differently (without bacteria to break down the food) because JESUS ate food AFTER the resurrection and he didn’t have blood anymore! (strange digestive system in His new body……the same body WE will have some day!). EVERYTHING was different at Creation and the curse upon this earth is MUCH MORE HORRIFIC than we can fathom. We are surrounded and immersed in death and decay (mentally and physically) but our sinful human minds are fooled and call much of creation beauty and loveliness; but it is SO FAR below what it once was.
When you look at a peacock with spread feathers, you are looking at a gorgeous bird that is in the process of dying in the next 15 or 20 years…..i.e. you’re looking at death; but our minds, deceived in our fallen state, don’t register that fact. Instead we are determined (in our rebellion) to call these things LIFE!
Humans know very well (in their innermost spirit) that they are guilty of the curse brought upon nature and they feel it, trying constantly to mask the truth with thoughts of beauty, life and eternity because that’s what was LOST at the fall and we know who did it (ME!). We yearn for perfection because we are made in God’s image, meant to be PERFECT but presently in a horrible state. To tell the truth, our spirits yearn for all that’s beautiful and eternal because we know what was lost; but the Devil is so tremendously clever that we think WE KNOW BEAUTY & LIFE!……NO we don’t! The most beautiful thing on this entire earth was the mangled, blood-dripped, swollen, gut-protruding body of Jesus on the cross. Until we realize what He had to do to lift earth’s horrendous curse, we will continue to think we understand perfection. Only ‘eating’ His Word (Bible), praying and putting forth daily effort to show Him how much we love Him (by obedience) will bring us nearer to this wisdom……and even then we only ‘TOUCH’ upon a mere, slight image of perfection (maybe!).
You do know that a fish that has been caught will wiggle violently because it is dying. Today’s youth/culture….etc is DYING…..wiggling like crazy!
The Bible also says that “It hasn’t even ENTERED the MIND the things that God has prepared for those who love Him.” What hasn’t entered the mind???? The PERFECTION that exists in Heaven!; and earth was perfect at Creation; and if we cannot understand the perfection of Heaven, why do we think we can understand what a perfect earth used to be?….including how the food chain functioned (if there was such a thing) and whether there was ruin & rot as plants were consumed. The bodies of the eaters worked differently.
As we feed upon the Word of God……the supernatural power in the words, the letters, in between the letters AND the Holy Sprit’s application of the words upon our mind and body (MIRACULOUS, LIFE-CHANGING WORDS)……we begin to get an idea of the wretched creatures we are, and the astounding beauty of the Savior outshines all else that we think is beautiful……J.H.
Jan,
Whatever you do, DON’T take any classes in geology or archeology.
It would drive you nuts, If you’re not already there.
It‘s one thing to describe how the world once was but another entirely to explain what God left behind for us to dig up.
It sucks to have to reject science in order to reconcile scripture. You have to wonder If God breaks His own laws (of science/physics) then covers it up to make it look like He didn’t.
Maybe He’s a yukster and likes to fool puny humans.
Maybe He should be on YouTube, eh?
🙂
I don’t like to prolong this subject (for WHATEVER reason)……but perhaps the laws of physics were different at Creation. We study geology and archaeology according to the PRE-FLOOD earth, NOT the Pre-Fall, Perfect Earth. Sound can produce light with enough speed (“Let there be light”….thus the start of all Creation) and time warps with enough distance and there are supposed to be 14 different dimensions……….all things that stretch or exceed the laws of physics. Does a human understand the laws of physics?……yes. But didn’t God say that absolute PERFECTION (Heaven) hasn’t entered the human mind yet?…..and if the earth was PERFECT (before the Fall), can a human understand it?…….No. When a person is born again, he becomes a BRAND NEW CREATURE and we don’t really know what that is; but somehow the soul takes on an eternal identity that was dead but now it is alive……WAY beyond the laws of physics. Let’s see now, how many people are willing to entertain this subject?…..and how many think there’s a reason to ponder it?…….Oh my, just ME…….Sorry!
Unfortunately, all of science rests on the assumption that the processes that are at work today are the same as they were in the beginning and that they will be the same in the future. If you are correct, everything man has ever learned will be wasted. Nothing we’ve built will stand or work. Everything will fall apart. I guess by then no one will need science or medicine, we may all just be floating around playing harps. They may be the only things that still work.
🙂
After 7,000 yrs of this present earth’s existence, God will “make a New Heaven and the New Earth” and the Greek word means ‘new in quality/new in atomic structure.’ At present the way the atom is arranged makes it prone to ignite (a study I can’t remember the details of); and the protons, neutrons, etc have to apparently be rearranged for the curse to be lifted.
The thought is this: If the eath was PERFECT at CREATION, why would a NEW EARTH need to be made? And why would the atomic structure need to be changed? I think it’s for the purpose of creating the same earth that existed in its perfection at creation BEFORE THE FALL. The Millennium will not be the PERFECT earth, but a pre-flood earth under Messiah’s control.
What I am inferring is that the present laws of physics are different from those that will exist in the New Heaven and New Earth……the same as those laws in the ORIGINAL, perfect earth before the Fall. The universe “rolling up like a scroll” probably has something to do with the future change in atomic structure also including such a change in the entire universe. Anyway, enough of this senseless pondering.
Well, I’ve thought out the scenario and there are about 7 main points confirming a TUESDAY, Aug 14 RAPTURE in my opinion.
Tuesday, Aug 14, Av 26, is LEO 24 (12,12,12 or 12,888).
TUESDAY is the 3rd day, ancient Jewish wedding day (Hos 6:2-3).
TUESDAY, Aug 14 is THREE days past SATURDAY, Aug 11, the probable SIGNING (yet unrevealed).
Two main spans end at Saturday, Aug 11/SIGNING:
1. Jan 29, 2011 UFO (1-yr warn, to Jan 29, 2012) +120 (“to Harvest”/& as Noah) +75 (in GRACE) is Aug 11.
2. Succoth 2011 plus 280 days ‘spiritual gestation’ of the Church (to Tam 30) +23 days (will minus) is Aug 11.
Passover, 2013 (blood sacrifice of lamb) is the DESECRATION of the 3rd Temple (Dan 8:13-14), plus 2300 days is the Reconsecration (SAT, July 13, 2019) when Jesus enters the Temple (Isa 63) with the Remnant 30 days past the Return (w/ the -23 considered).
The Return is CANCER 15 (middle of the judgment sign), SATURDAY, July 6, 2019.
Jesus enters Temple w/ Remnant on LEO 15 (middle of ‘Conqueror/Hero/Victor/Lion of Judah’ sign).
END of trib is LIBRA 1, the sign of BALANCED JUDGMENT.
MID TRIB is SATURDAY, Jan 22, 2016, AQUARIUS 1 (‘Age of Aquarius’).
Mid trib os Sat, Jan 22, 2016 minus the tilt is Dec 31, 2015, the solar anniv of Tevet 1 (8th day after the orig Kislev 24/Hag 2), Jesus’ Conception day.
If the above is works out, then the Rapture will be followed by 2+ wks world chaos/N. Invasion of Israel/Ezek 38-39, Isa 17:1 to the great Divine Victory in Israel’s mts and the start of the 7 mths burying bodies/bldg 3rd Temple (end of August).
Tues, Aug 14 looks good; so glean as led……………..J.H.
Only G-d the Father knows the day, and hour. You must not believe in the Holy Bible to state such misleading drivel.
Here, I can tell the future too. Things are going to happen to you.
Things are going to happen to everyone.
🙂
I wanted to add one fact…….that Jan 29, 2012 (end of the 1 solar yr warning) plus the 120 days ends exactly at May 28, SHAVUOT, then the 75 days are added up to Aug 11.
Also at the RETURN, when one subtracts the 23 days (as earth straightens), the day is Thursday, June 13, four days past the actual Shavuot (Sun, June 9); but the actual SUNDAY Shavuot COUNT will still hold because the next week’s count doesn’t begin until the following Sunday.
In this respect the trib is ‘SHAVUOT 2012 to SHAVUOT 2019.’
Perhaps I also forgot to mention that the entire trib (Rapture to end w/ the -23) is AV 26 to AV 26, 7 Jewish yrs.
Let me make it clear that we cannot know the DAY or the HOUR….but I think we can know ‘of three days’ since one day is 72 hrs from beginning to end over the entire earth.. The Bible is extemely exact about everything else; so I am hoping this is the case with one’s presumed knowledge of the Rapture date. One must remember that I am only guessing and putting my speculative thoughts down on paper. Let’s hear some OTHER thoughts in relation to all the great patterns/Hebrew calendar…etc. Bring it on! Why am I the only one who has to make a fool of myself? A good ‘tower watchman’ had to make a fool of himself as he hollered out many threats proven to be invalid…..but he sure kept looking!!…..and after a while, NO ONE believed him…..not good. Prophecy students are supposed to be the most open-minded people because they are considering the Rapture event from so many intricate angles. For the life of me, I don’t know why my letters would bother anyone. None of the material is ‘pulled out of the blue’ for no reason and can be understood completely. I can’t help it if it keeps making sense to me. There certainly is no one else to share the info with other than educated prophecy students who are supposed to be able to ‘take it’ and are NOT SCOFFERS. When I’m done, I’m done; and the info is not hurting the reader one bit! If the website moderators don’t like the material, then they’ll forbid the postings; but for some reason they don’t. Either way is all right with me, though. I just don’t want to ignore this wonderful website IF something happens to be materialize. If nothing happens soon, then I’ll be happy to be a faint, website memory……..J.H.
Jan,
I just happened to stop by, why don’t you check this out? You may find it as interesting as I did.
http://119ministries.com/daniel-unsealed
There are 4 other videos that are associated to this series. This one is the fourth out of five. I am going to watch the fifth tomorrow.
Be Blessed in Yeshua HaMashiach our Holy and Precious Savior. Our Glorious and Majestic KING of kings and LORD of lords.
Amen.
a.
Alienated,
This is a very good presentation and worth the time to watch/listen and take notes.
It is almost the same study of Daniel’s time line as Dewy Burton’s danielstimeline presented in 2006.
Jan
Jesus promised in Matthew 24 to get back in the end times. According to the Mayans the end time is 21 dec 2012th. December 22, 2102 we get into the Aquarius time. In the gospels Jesus told his disciples to go and talk to the man who pours water for end easter dinner. Your calculations do not match cultures on Earth. Annunakis said that their planet Nibiru will come back about 3600 yearslater which is 21 dec 2012th The earth has spun its course turns around its axis, December 21. In Sweden we have the names of all days but one of the year. December 22 has Adam’s name day and according to our faith, Jesus is Adam the first man. All indications are that Jesus is starting its next mission on the 22nd December, but we should be careful with date when the Bible says that only God knows the exact time but we can speculate and my church does not believe in any witnesses in Jerusalem before Jesus returns.
I agree students should be open minded. However, setting dates is the issue. The time is at hand, but we do not, and can not know the day, or hour. Which you have written. Fair enough.
My prayers have been for the innocent these last few months. May they be taken out of the way today rather than suffer what is coming on the world. Fires in Oklahoma, and murder in Syria are just two examples.
Good luck with your studies.
Hi Istone,
If you read in chapter 47 of Isaiah, you will read that the descendants of Babylon had all these MYSTERIOUS Astrological ideas that are NOT from God.
Isaiah 47:13. Thou art wearied in the multitude of thy counsels. Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save thee from [these things] that shall come upon thee.
We should divorce ourselves from these esoteric Babylonian traditions and stick to God’s Word.
Isaiah 47:9. But these two [things] shall come to thee in a moment in one day, the loss of children, and widowhood: they shall come upon thee in their perfection for the multitude of thy sorceries, [and] for the great abundance of thine enchantments.
11. Therefore shall evil come upon thee; thou shalt not know from whence it riseth: and mischief shall fall upon thee; thou shalt not be able to put it off: and desolation shall come upon thee suddenly, [which] thou shalt not know.
Please don’t take this as an attack on you, I think that if we are to mix pagan beliefs with Scriptures, it is an abomination in the eyes of the Lord.
Nowhere in scripture does it mention Aquarius, Annunakis or Nibiru. What has God’s Word to do with Pagan Tradition or beliefs?
2 Thes.2:3. Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4. Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
8. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9. [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
11. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12. That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
The Word does include “Orion”, “Pleiades”, “The Great Bear with it’s cubs” (Amos and Job).
“Do you know the ordinance of the heavens? Can you set their domination over the earth?” (Job 38:33, NJKV).
Do not confuse astonomy with astrology.
Please consider this post. We are in the last days.
https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/signs-in-the-heavens/#comment-137429
Olaf
Time will tell whos right and who not!
Mercy!……I’m still at it! You must think I’m crazy! Well, WHERE is your DELETE button?………….O.K., your choice!,…..then read on!….Be a CRAZY watchman like ME!!!………Take note: WEDNESDAY is BETTER! Remember, I CAN’T LIVE without a presumed/speculated date (perhaps an addiction???)……..and just forget the Tuesday thing!!! This is simply the crazy kind of study that it is!!! So let’s just see if there’s any substance to the following (in ‘chart’ form):
Jan 29, 2011, Temple Mt/Rev 11 UFO/the one-yr warning………..+ 1 solar yr………..Jan 29, 2012 end of 1-yr warn (Jer 51:46)……..
+4 solar mths (121 days as Noah/&”to Harvest”)……..May 29, 2012 (Tues, Siv 8, still counts as SHAVUOT, Sun, Siv 6/since counts
stay at SUNDAY)…….+75 days (in GRACE, not counted/& cancels out the post-Return 75 days)…….AUG 12, 2012, SUNDAY SIGNING
(a.c. yet unrevealed?) ……+1260…….SHEVAT 13 (such #’s!/11 & 13 on Jewish calendar!) AQUAR 1, Jan. 23, 2016 a.c. breaks
covenant, in Temple as ‘God’/killed/1260 days Petra Protec begins, (satanically ‘rises’ 3 days later, Wed, Jan 26/ kills Elij & Moses who
rise after 3+ days).
3 days after Sunday Aug 12 SIGNING is WED, AUG 15, LEO 24 presumed RAPTURE AV 27. LEO 24 is 12,12,12 or 12,888……..MAJOR!! (even though you may detest reference to the Mazzarot!)
Mid trib, Sunday, Jan 23, 2015 (a.c. stops dy sacrifices/killed)……………+1260……………July 7, 2019, RETURN (CANCER 15
………..-23 days tilt loss………..June 15, 2019 (Sivan 15/SATURDAY/still counts as SHAVUOT, SUNDAY, Sivan 6, June 9,
because only SUNDAY counts)…..+30 days mourning……..July 15, LEO 15, Av 6, Jesus into Temple w/ Remnant/Reconsecrates
Temple after 2300 days Desecration which will have begun on PASSOVER/Nis 14, 2013 (3 extra ‘uncounted’ mid-trib days)……..
…….+45 days judg Nations…….Libra 1 (judg meted/trib over). Know that Succoth 8 (Tish 22) + 280 = Av 5-6 on BOTH sides of trib.
Entire trib now stands at AV 27 to AV 27 (w/ the -23 considered)…….that is, Av 27, 2012 to Av 27, 2019, which actually counts as per the Pyramid timeline Yom 2011 to Yom 2018 which all works out (when the 17 yrs are NOT counted) to be the beginning of the 121st Jubilee, Yom Kippur 2001 (6001). Note that 5779 (Rosh 2018) is the ht in inches of the Pyramid and Kelvin temp of the sun.
Entire trib ” ” at Leo 24 to Libra 1, which is 37 days, the difference betw 2557 days (7 solar yrs) and 2520 (7 perf yrs).
Entire trib (with the -280 gestation of CHURCH & REMNANT/both BODY of Christ) is SUCCOTH 8 to SUCCOTH 8………..the LAST trump of the LAST day of the LAST Feast (Tish 22). At this point in time, you MUST admit that the DELAY must be explained.
After the Rapture there will be approx 2 wks world chaos and the Divine Victory in the mts of Israel at the end of August, 2012 (Ezek 38-39, Isa 17:1).
SEVEN mths burying ensues, ending at PASSOVER, 2013 (Nis 14, Mar 25), first BLOOD Sacrifice of 3rd Temple (Desecration of Temple/Dan 8:13-14).
Mid trib Jan 23, 2016 (Aquarius 1/”Age of Aquarius”/satanically-promised Utopia) minus 23 days is Dec 31, 2015, the solar anniv of Jesus’ conception/solar anniv of 8th day of 8th Feast…..Tevet 1, whih is 7 days after KISLEV 24 (of Hag 2).
SUNDAYS are all across the board now: SIGNING, MID TRIB/A.C. into Temple (Isa 63), and the RETURN……all Sundays, when counts start.
Let me tell you, this is ALL we have to hang onto for the patterns to still hold! We CAN’T mess w/ the Fig Tree patterns (that Jesus TOLD us to watch) because they are all DONE!…..and totally observable! Believe me, there doesn’t seem to be ANYTHING left after Wednesday as far as MY SPECULATION is concerned. As far as I can see, NOBODY took the study this far; but in my refusal to give up and to prevent my own scofferism, I took it this far. Thankfully you can just delete it and carry on with your own ideas about the whole thing…..a privilege of the internet. I just kept going because I felt I wasn’t allowed to stop once I got people ‘hyped up’ about the patterns….etc. Take care and try to survive the coming oblivion IF the Rapture is not Wednesday (which begins late Monday in Calif and ends late Wed night in Calif).
Of course the 1290 spans mid trib to the day Jesus enters the Temple 30 days after the Return and the 1335 spans the mid trib to the end of the trib (Dan 12:11-12).
“The owner of a home doesn’t know when a thief will come”……..but with enough cameras, sensors, pit bulls/rotweillers, wires, lights, spies, he WOULD see the thief coming….i.e. WE, the Church, are “not in darkness” and are called “children of LIGHT;” and with all the Fig tree patterns in our view, etc, we are supposed to KNOW…………of 3 days……….but NOT the DAY and NOT the HOUR! Why would God mention DAY and HOUR…….perhaps because that is ‘down to the wire’ thinking of the watching Church………….J.H.
Dude, where’s my rapture? I was all ready to go today – even gave away a perfectly good chocolate cake and put on nice clothes. What a bummer!
You are beginning to give rapturists a bad name. After all, If someone with your great expertise can’t figure it out, then maybe something is wrong with the whole theory. Maybe your times are all correct only there isn’t actually going to be a rapture. The big problem is If the rapture fails to materialize, then maybe there won’t be a second coming either. Double bummer!
Well, by now we all realize there is a major problem with your assumptions, such as the UFO being the sign in the heavens that somehow triggers the tribulation. And the secret treaty you keep mentioning, supposedly set up by the Antichrist, but who is this supposed leader of the New World Order? And what is the treaty about and who is involved? Even state secrets are leaked to the press almost immediately, so why no word of it?
Sorry but UFOs and secret treaties is simply grasping at straws. We all want Jesus to return soon, but you have gone overboard trying to make his appearance seem imminent.
On the other hand, you are very entertaining and give me endless excuses to rant about the fanciful rapture theory, so thanks for that.
So keep on trucking. Every false prediction continues to confirm my position and maybe someone who believes in the rapture will decide to look into it more closely so they might stop giving away good food due to false expectations.
🙂
YOU may not be tempted to enter ‘panic’ mode, but I am; so I start figuring again……nothing wrong with figuring/speculating/guessing/surmising/presuming. Just DELETE the following if you are admirably and blessedly waiting in Christian maturity for the Rapture EVEN if it’s ‘decades into the future’ OR read on:
Very briefly (if FRIDAY, Av 29, Aug 17 is the RAPTURE):
FRIDAY, Aug 17 plus 2520 days is Friday, July 12, 2019 (Tammuz 9), the Return.
Friday, July 12, 2019 is exactly 2300 days past PASSOVER, 2013 (1st blood sacrifice in 3rd Temple/Desecration/Dan 8:13-14). Nisan 14, 2013 is Mar 25.
The 2011 LAST Day of the LAST FEAST (7th) when the LAST TRUMP is blown is TISHREI 21 (Hoshana Rabah/7mth,7th Feast/21st day…777); and 303 days past that day is this Friday, Aug 17. 303 is 280 days ‘spiritual gestation’ of the Church plus the tilt days that will minus (280 + 23).
280 is gestation (40 wks) and 280 plus 75 (still needed to complete a year and to complete the trib…….til the 1335 after mid trib) is 355 days, 1 Jewish yr. As noted before SHANA (yr) in Hebrew # values is 355, which is 1 Jewish yr.
Thus the Church’s ‘gestation’ period has been Tishrei 21 +280 days (+23) to the Rapture; but the Remnant’s ‘spiritual gestation’ period (both Church and Remnant are BODY of Christ) spans Rosh Hashana, 2018 to the Return. Tishrei 1 plus 280 is Tammuz 11.
The straightening of the earth will likely take 2 days as reviewed in Hos 6:2-3 (one meaning/other is the 3rd 1000 from yr 0…start of Millen) which means the Return at Friday, Tammuz 9, 2019 (July 12) plus 2 days is Tammuz 11, the end of the 280 days from Rosh Hashana, 2018. An additional 75 days 30+45 (to equal the full Jewish yr) ends the trib.
The Return at Tammuz 9 plus 30 days mourning over Jesus is SUNDAY, AV 9, 2019 (w/out the -23 tilt loss considered). WITH the -23 tilt loss figured in, that day is TAMMUZ 17. Both Av 9 and Tammuz 17 are FAST DAYS that are promised (Zech 8) to be TURNED to JOY which will be the case as Jesus enters the Temple (w/ the Remnant from Petra/Isa 63).
Mid trib (1260 past Fri, Aug 17 Rapture) is JAN 28, 2016. Jan 28 MINUS the projected tilt loss will settle the date back to Jan 5-6 which is REALLY DEC 24, 2015 due to the 12-day calendar discrepancy from the 1500’s. Dec 24 was the original Kislev 24………Haggai 2!!!! Jan 28, 2016 (mid trib) will doubtless be the ‘abomination of desolation’ (a.c. into Temple/killed).
When the earth straightens (likely taking 2 days), then the actual minus is 20-21 days which means that this Friday, Av 29 MINUS 20 days is AV 9. Now if we see the start of the trib as AV 9 (due to the projected tilt loss), then the entire trib is AV 9 to AV 9 (Jesus into Temple), making AV 9 the most joyful day ever for both the Christian and the Remnant 7 Jewish yrs later.
The Return at Tammuz 9, 2019 MINUS 23 days takes the date back to SIVAN 17; then plus the 30 days = Tam 17, FAST day of the 4th mth.
As I ‘doggedly’ hold on to the Rev 11, Jan 29, 2011 UFO over Temple Mt as the 1-yr warning (Jer 51:46), then the one solar yr goes to Jan 29, 2012, then plus 150 days (as Noah’s wait til exit from ark) plus 51+ days (the 75 minus the tilt loss when all is figured) is also this Friday, Aug 17, Av 29, 2012.
If Kaduri’s message of Messiah’s arrival in the month of Av holds true (very speculative, indeed, coming from a Kabbalist Rabbi), then Av 29 is the END of Av and after Friday/Sat, that ‘message’ won’t hold.
If one sees the entire trib beginning at Av 9 (as one counts from the future tilt loss), then the basic scenario is:
Av 9…+1260=Jan 5, 2016 (really Dec 24)…+1260=Siv 17…+30=Tam 17…pretty interesting.
Of course the actual end of the trib according to the Pyramid timeline & other proofs (as 5779 K sun’s temp/5779″ Pyramid ht, Isa 19:19) as reviewed before is the Jewish year 5779 Rosh/Yom 2018). Rosh plus the 280 gestation for the Remnant is Tammuz 11, 2019 (the Return when the Hos 6:2-3 TWO DAYS of straightening are considered).
Rosh/Yom 2018 MINUS the 17 ‘uncounted yrs’ (as reviewed previously) is Yom Kippur 2001 (6001), beginning of the 121st Jubilee (start of 7 thousandth yr).
The Return at Friday, July 12, 2019 is also CANCER 22 (11,11,11/triple judg) if applicable.
If the mid trib (a.c. into Temple) is Jan 28, 2016, Aquarius 8, then 3 days later (a.c. ‘satanically rises’) is Jan 31, AQUARIUS 11 (‘age of Aquarius,’ 11th day/judgment)…….if applicable.
And if applicable, the Rapture Friday, Aug 17, Av 29, 2012 is LEO 27, which is the Lion of Judah/999 (ultimate # = ‘amen’ in Hebrew + other connections……9 planets, 9 digits, 99 Abr, 90 Sarah, 90 Jub’s from flood, 99 sheep, 90 yrs Holocaust to 2018, 9th hr on Cross…..etc. etc.).
Of course the Fig Tree patterns ending at Rosh/Yom 2018 still hold; but the 280 is to be added.
100 yrs 1918 – 2018
120 yrs 1898 – 2018
70 yrs 1948 – 2018
90 yrs 1938 – 2018
50 yrs 1967 – 2018 (but 1967 to 2019 is 52 yrs/Biblical gen)
And, of course, 2018 minus the 17 ‘uncounted’ yrs is 2001, exactly when the 121st Jubilee is to begin.
Anyway, that’s all I can figure (as if I NEEDED to….?????) and I’m at peace w/ the subject for a couple more days!…..J.H.
Crap, now I have to wait till Friday? D*mn. Wonder If I can get my cake back.
You better be right this time…
Ha!
🙂
….better say ‘crap’ a few times before you get your new body! (really NEAT one MINUS the crap!!)…..and your silly cake won’t even compare with the desserts God has prepared for the Marriage Supper. I only share my info with THIS site and a few others. Why do my studies bother you so much? Figuring is fun………..you’d like it!……a great ‘descofferization’ method.
have fun.
Hey, I am an engineer so I love calculations and have done a few of my own. Of course I can’t follow your gibberish with 777 variables which change for each prediction, and neither can anyone else I’m sure, but I read them anyway. It wouldn’t be fair to criticize you If I never even tried to understand what you’re saying, but I just can’t buy into your basic premises. You are expecting a 7-year tribulation, a New World Order led by an Antichrist who brokers a peace treaty with Israel just after all Christians are raptured. Well I don’t believe any of that will happen so any calculations you come up with are moot in my book.
But I enjoy the banner, so please don’t take it personally.
Bless.
PS: I got my cake back so I’m happy even without a rapture tomorrow.
🙂
The goal in all of my letters is to try to explain the DELAY; so what I see now is awesome! I’ll only stop when there is NO more explanation of the delay in my estimation; plus I wish to clarify the times, NOT to confuse the reader. I simply conclude that as “Children of Light,” we are not to be so confused about the end times because there’s so much material to foster understanding if searched out. God said, “Come, let us REASON together” and He knows we are ‘mathematical’ beings since we are created in His image with abounding curiosity and a huge desire to understand what on earth is going on!
When did the flood end?……..NISAN 17; and God said that it was to be the “BEGINNING of DAYS.” The beginning of the original Jewish year/& the future Millennial Jewish yr is NISAN 1 (study ancient calendar system Grant Jeffrey’s red book ‘Armageddon, App’t w/ Destiny’ pg 61). Ezek 45:18 states that the Millennial Temple is to be cleansed each yr on NISAN 1. New Year’s Day in the Millennium is NISAN 1, no longer Tishrei 1/Rosh Hashana. Why?….probably because the JUDGMENT Feasts (5thRosh/6thYom..etc) are not applicable since the Holy of Holies/Yom Kippur VEIL tore and the only 7th-mth Feast to be celebrated in the Millennium will be SUCCOTH/7th Feast/TABERNACLES (Zech 14). You do know that the 4th Temple (Millen) will NOT have a Holy of Holies (thus no ‘reason’ for the judgment/repentance shofar blast of Rosh Hashana followed by the terrible 9 days of AWE).
Nisan 1 and Nisan 17 were considered the ‘same day…first day’ as per God’s command to Noah at the end of the flood (“This shall be the beginning of days.”) The awesome events of Nisan 17 included end of flood, crossing of Red Sea, Entrance into Canaan, Haman hanged & Jesus’ Resurrection. Note that there has always been a debate about the Hebrews’ journey from Egypt to the Red Sea Crossing taking only 3 days (Nis 14-17), but one must note that God led them “on Eagle’s wings” (advanced speed) just as the flight to Petra will involve “Eagle Wings” speed. During the 6-day war a few troops tried the trek and traveled DAY and NIGHT covering the distance in 3 days total. The Hebrews did not stop to camp during these 3 days (w/ Pillar of fire at night, Pillar of cloud by day).
If one studies Grant Jeffrey’s book (‘Armageddon/App’t w/ Destiny’ pg 61) one undertands the 6-MONTH addition to Rosh Hashana which is NISAN 1.
According to our present Jewish year timing, ROSH HASHANA 2011 (beginning of the Pyramid timeline Rosh 5772/2011 ending at Rosh 5779/2018) is the start of the year 5772; but 6 mths has to be added to arrive at the official start of the year if the New Year’s Day of Nisan 1 is to be realized; thus the actual count of 5772 would begin NISAN 1, 2012.
So the CHURCH would likely have seen NISAN 1, 2012 as the start of the 7-yr trib (signing/Rapture) as per the perfect Jewish calendar, ending 7 Jewish yrs later at NISAN 1, 2019. Well, let’s see WHY that may be the case if the extra DELAY as in Noah’s day is considered.
Do you see that NISAN 1, 2012 plus exactly 5 months is ELUL 1? These 5 months are very likely the same FIVE MONTHS as Noah’s continued residence inside the ark until the family could exit onto dry land.
Now notice that if the Rapture is on ELUL 1, 2012 (Sunday, Aug 19), simply add the two 1260’s (minus the 3-day mid trib uncounted days) to arrive at the RETURN, Thur, July 11, 2019. Mind you, Aug 19, 2012, ELUL 1 can also overlap onto the LAST day of AV due to the earth’s 72-hr, 1-day span. That is only a thought just in case Rabbi Kaduri’s message is valid. The significant event in Kaduri’s date of Av could also refer to the 7-yr pact Signing day which is still in the month of Av which would start the first 1260 days a.c. ‘keeps’ covenant w/ Israel. However the 2 other 1260’s work fine, as well, even with the 3-day overlap at mid-trib. Remember that Jesus’ 3 days in the tomb were NOT counted in the count to Pentecost; thus the a.c.’s 3 days ‘dead’ will likely not be counted either.
Here are the main facts that I now consider awesome at this points (spacing is off, but can’t be helped):
Temple Entrance w/ Remnant (Isa 63) 30 days after the Return is AV 9 (main FAST DAY turned to JOY/Zech 8).
2300 days Temple Desecration spans NISAN 15, 2013 (1st blood sacrifice in 3rd Temple) to the Return, July 11, 2019, and straightening will likely take 2 days (Hos 6:2-3) to July 13, end of the 2300 days.
Mid trib is Jan 28 – 31, 2016; and Jan 28 minus the projected tilt loss of 23 days reverts back to Jan 5, which is really DEC 24, 2015 and Dec 24 was the original Kislev 24 (Creation Day) of Haggai 2. Jan 5 is also the Gk Orthod Christmas. Also, a.c. ‘rises’ on a SUNDAY, when the count must begin…….but that day plus only 1257 days (3 short of 1260) will be the Return (days “cut short” as per legal count start).
Entire trib (w/ the -23 considered) is ELUL 1 to ELUL 1 (as per Noah’s exit 5 mths after end of flood count start).
End of trib is also LIBRA 1 (‘judgment scales balanced’), if Mazzarot point is applicable.
When the tilt loss is considered as to the AV 9, 2019 Entrance into the Temple, TAMMUZ 17 is ‘as the same day,’ the two FAST DAYS of Zech 8 (as one considers the 2 days of the straightening as well). Tammuz 17 is ‘3 wks previous’ (the tilt loss #) to Av 9.
Entire trib (without the 5 mths delay added) is NISAN 1, 2012 to NISAN 1, 2019.
Also, entire trib (w/out the 6 mths addition nor the 5 mths delay added) is also ROSH 2011 to ROSH 2018.
Mid trib (if applicable) is AQUARIUS 8/Jan 28, 2016 (1260 Petra Protec begins) to AQUARIUS 11 (a.c. ‘rises’)….satanically-promised ‘Age of Aquarius’ beginning at a.c.’s satanic”resurrection’…day 11/judg #.
10.End of trib (with the -23 considered) is SEPT 1, ELUL 1, LIBRA 1, the exact day the Millennial 6th mth should start. BUT, Sept 1 could well be the NEW ROSH HASHANA, 2019, making the FALL mths Sep/Oct/Nov, the WINTER mths Dec/Jan/Feb, SPRING mths Mar/Apr/May…………..etc. Also, add SIX MONTHS to SEPT 1, 2019 and one arrives at MARCH 1, NISAN 1, ARIES 1, the 1st day of Spring and the Ezek 45:18 cleansing of Temple. It stands to reason that Nisan 1 would start on the 8th Mazzarot sign, that of the LAMB/ARIES.
If the SIGNING (a.c. yet unrevealed til Rapture) was last Thur, Aug 16, 2012, that day, if applicable, was LEO 24 (12,12,12/also 12,888). Jesus is the LION of JUDAH and the SIGNING is virtually the START of the ‘CHURCH’s Lion-force release from earth.’
The Rapture (if on Aug 19, ELUL 1, SUNDAY, when COUNTS are to begin anyway) minus the tilt is AV 9 and Temple Entrance, 2019, is AV 9……….thus trib is AV 9 to AV 9 in a sense, as well.
I’m surmising that the 1-yr warning (Jerem 51:46) will work out (when the 17 ‘uncounted yrs are figured in) as the year 2000 – 2001 because the 120th Jubilee has to be complete before the 121st Jubilee can begin (on a ONE). The 121st Jubilee was to legally start on Rosh/Yom, 2018 (-17 uncounted yrs is 2001); but 6 mths has to be added for the official Millennial start to begin according to Scripture, which will be NISAN 1, 2020.
The only 280-day spiritual Gestation periods gleanable on BOTH sides of the trib (for CHURCH & REMNANT) is that SUCCOTH 8, last day (8th day) of last feast/last trump blown plus ‘280’ is Av 9 (or 3 days before, Av 6, which is the Av 28 Signing minus 23 days. The Rapture minus the 23 is approx Av 6-9; and the Remnant’s gestation ends at their ‘birth’ as they enter the Temple 30 days after the Return, Av 9, 2019. Both the Church and the Remnant are the Body of Christ and need a gestation period…..HIS physical, ours & Remnants spiritual.
As for the Temple Mt UFO on Jan 29, 2011 plus the 1 yr to Jan 29, 2012……..if the count for the event began on SUNDAY, Jan 30, 2011, then plus 150 days (5 mths) plus 52 days in GRACE (that will MINUS after the Return when the 75 days loses 23 days in the straightening process (75-23=52). The post-Return 52 days are in JUDGMENT & they will ‘cancel’ each other out as in a math equation (?). That is its only connection to a 1-yr warning (Jan 29, 30/Sunday, 2011 UFO to Jan 30, 2012 = 1 yr) plus the 150 plus 52. But, truthfully, I’ve almost eliminated its importance since the 5 months sets so much better in the Tishrei 1 to Elul 1 span. True, the orb over the Temple Mt was awesome (why the Temple Mt/Rev 11 angelic measuring???)…..but the orb
did behave like others I’ve seen on youtube, and I think they are satanic (inter-dimensional). Only God knows, but the Temple MUST be measured somehow, sometime (Rev 11) and we ARE in the last days AND Jerusalem is the center of prophecy in ALL respects…….especially the Temple Mount.
If the Signing was Thurs, Aug 16 (3 days before Sunday Rapture), that day on the Mazzarot was LEO 24. Now Leo 24 to Libra 1 (end of trib w/out the 7 yrs counted) is 37 days. 37 is the difference between 7 solar yrs (2557) and 7 perfect/Millen yrs (2520). Also 37 is a an amazing prime number to study via Bonnie Gaunt’s book with a whole chapter dedicated to #37.
You do know that by the time Jesus was crucified, 483 (69 sevens/Daniel 9) yrs of punishment were completed for the Jews (because they didn’t keep their Sabbaticles, etc/let land rest every 7 yrs/return all property back to owner every 50 years…..etc……and there are 7 more years to go to complete God’s commanded 490 yrs of punishment (Jerem 30:7). Those 7 awful yrs are the trib (lasting 2520 days from Signing to Return/& cut short” by 3 days/also the 23-day tilt loss is “days cut short”). The trib will be much more deceptive/occultic/horrible than ANYONE realizes…..no place for a Bride.
If one figures that LIBRA 1 is the end of the trib, then when all is considered in perfect yr month spans, the Return is CANCER 15 (mid judg/11th), and the Temple Entrance is LEO 15 (mid hero/conqueror/Messiah sign/12th)…..if applicable. LIBRA means balanced judgment as well as FREEDOM.
For the first 3.5 yrs the 144,000 world Jewish Evangelists (martyred by mid-trib?) will blanket the world pleading with people NOT to take the 666 mark (silicon chip on head/hand…?). The Gospel/end times verses will have to be explained to them with great and constant force & desperation in order for them not to fall for the strong deception (doubtless via occultic forces); because taking the mark will likely seem the only way to survive, but will be their eternal doom (+sores, etc). Those who don’t take the mark, of course, are the treasured Trib Saints & will have to choose death OR hide successfully for the 2nd half of the trib (I EVEN think sometimes it is perhaps important to pray for those trib saints NOW while we are still on earth). Elijah and Moses’ job (mega-powered/head of govt & Priesthood…?…in Israel) will be to persuade the Jews at all costs to flee to Petra (becoming the treasured, procured REMNANT) when the a.c. is killed since the Jews will ‘adore’ this great leader since he will have fostered the bldg of the 3rd Temple (+ mega aliya) and will have kept ‘peace’ for Israel for the first 3.5 yrs.
Know that the Church is the BRIDE and the Groom is not a ‘wife beater,’ Lot was taken OUT of Sodom BEFORE it was destroyed, and the Church is to be protected FROM God’s wrath, NOT taken THROUGH it (Church is “not appointed to wrath”). The trib will be majorly occultic and deceptive and by the time the actual/figured year of 2001 (extending 6 mths to Nisan 1, 2002/6002) is reached, the AGE of GRACE is OVER. Remember that the entire, promised 6,000 full yrs for fallen man (Gen 6) is basically divided into 2000 yrs NO LAW, 2000 yrs LAW, 2000 yrs GRACE. So if one considers the Jubilees (divided quite equally amidst the 6000 full yrs/also divisible in additional spans), the completed, awesome Fig Tree Patterns (20,30,40, 50, 52,70,80,100,120 & many more…..all to Rosh 2018) with the Millennial Calendar start point of Nisan 1, New Years Day, then it certainly looks like the Rapture could be this Sunday…..J.H.
Now, James…….if you read the above, I want to be sure don’t throw Thomas Crapper’s name around (the beloved inventor of the Siphon-flush toilet) as his present-day relatives would be saddened and humiliated……..unless they already got the point and changed their name at the Office of Records…..perhaps to Creep?, Croup? Crypt? Crop?……who knows. Also the word is BANTER, not BANNER;……but wait!….did you mean that my info is good enough to be on a BANNER!……WOW, THANKS!!
Well, Friday is over and I’m still here. Hope you are too.
BTW, the cake was good. Going to give some to my neighbors If they’re still around.
As for your explanation above for the “delay” like everyone else on earth, I don’t understand a word so I can’t comment on its accuracy. All I can say is it I don’t believe a word of it.
I also disagree with your assumption that God has made His “signs” so complex that only a lifelong study of the bible, calendars and astrology is necessary to understand His word. If that were true then there will only be a handful of saints worthy to be saved.
I have a feeling that it won’t be long before one of the following happens. Either you will give up on the idea that the UFO over Jerusalem was the trigger for the tribulation, or you will come to realize that there will be no 7-year tribulation opened by an Antichrist who brokers an Israeli peace plan.
Probably both, in that order.
But I’m a patient man. My “told you so” can wait for however long it takes.
Until then, keep crunching numbers – it’s strangely entertaining.
James
I thougt that you was the most crazy man on this site until Jan showed up. I must say i met a lot of crazy people but Jan takes the prize. The doom starts year 12 month 12.
The prophet!
Adam,
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!
You are by far the nuttiest person I have ever met! Your ideas come from far right field, somewhere in the deepest depths of your warped imagination. You ignore the bible completely and pull details out of thin air that are simply ridiculous.
Unlike Jan who proves every few days that he is wrong, we will have to wait 4 more months to show you as the charlatan you are, but your time is coming.
I have a feeling at that time you will reveal yourself as a YouTube runaway – one of the guys who try to scare the gullible public with bizarre scenarios, and than at some point simply say, “Ha! I fooled you all. Shame on you for believing in this trash.”
All of the Mayan calendar doomsayers will soon go down in flames into a pit of everlasting shame and contempt.
So to all you nutjobs out there, one and all, YOUR TIME IS COMING!
I can’t wait!
To the writer of “nutjobs”, who shall remain nameless,
“Who among you is wise and understanding? Let him show by his good behavior his deeds in the gentleness of wisdom. But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your heart, do not be arrogant and so lie against the truth. This wisdom is not that which comes down from above, but is earthly, natural, demonic. For where jealousy and selfish ambition exist, there is disorder and every evil thing.
But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, reasonable, full of mercy and good fruits, unwavering, without hypocrisy. And the seed whose fruit is righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace” (James 3:13-18, NASB).
“Do not speak against one another, brethren. He who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks against the law and judges the law; but if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge of it. There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the One who is able to save and to destroy; but who are you who judge your neighbor?” (James 4:11-12,NASB).
Just to be clear, the nutjobs in question are the YouTube idiots who knowingly make crap up and sell it as science, as in the planet Nibiru among others. I know for a fact these people are liars so I call them out on it.
As for my brethren on this site, I do not judge them, only their results. Once you make a firm claim you are up for scrutiny as either understanding of scripture or a False Prophet.
You, among others, have made prophetic claims that I believe are false. Surely you all can not be correct since you all have predicted different things, so time will soon tell who is correct and who qualifies as a false prophet.
But if that term offends you, then we can just let it go as “a person who was wrong.”
I hope that makes you feel better.
All of you.
one can have an opinion without being a false prophet.
Yeah, I guess its just a matter of degree.
Everyone is entitled to stick their foot in their mouth every so often.
I don´t ignore the Bible only the book of Revelation and the finest church in the wolrd doesn´t have that book in their Bibeln.
the catholic church calls it the Apocalypse.
this is the same book as the Revelation.
just a different title to the same book.
Marianne!
I Know that Catholic church have the book of Revelation in their Bibel but the Syrianic Ortodox church doesn´t have it. The Syrianic Ortodox church is the finest Church not the Catholic Church!
I hope when Jesus comes, you are both on the same side of heaven I am.
I want to hear how this discussion will continue…..
To Jan et. al.,
I know I’ve been giving you and others a hard time about your calculations for the second coming.
You may be wondering If I have any personal thoughts or calculations about it so here they are.
As you may know I was an digital engineer so I think very logically, and I like to think God is logical as well. I also like to keep things simple and easy to understand rather than complex and convoluted so that almost no one can possibly figure it out.
So here is my simple biblical logic:
From the fall of Adam to the millennium there will be 6000 years (solar years, not Hebrew years of 360 days). This we all know already.
So, from the fall of Adam to the great flood was 1000 years. (1000 AA)
Then another thousand years to the covenant with Abraham. (2000 AA)
Then another thousand years to the building of the first temple (3000AA)
Then another thousand years to the new covenant / resurrection (4000 AA – 31AD)
So what do we have left? Another 2000 years to the Second Coming. (6000 AA – 2031 AD)
Yeah, I know, who wants to wait another 20 years? Sheesh! I can’t wait that long!
This is a common feeling among believers. Since the years just after Christ ascended to His throne church leaders have been predicting He would return in their lifetime. There are hundreds of famous predictions by famous people that never came to pass.
But wishing won’t make it so. And no amount of crazy calculations will help.
So until I see some definite signs – unmistakable biblical signs – of the tribulation, I will assume that my simple logic is still valid. I refuse to look for petty little events and simple astronomical events and then try to manipulate them into something much larger. I believe that when God sends us a sign, the whole world will know it, not just some idiot on YouTube.
I am a patient man and am willing to wait for the real thing. I don’t need to make up secret treaties and imaginary planets as signs from the Almighty.
I am very wary of false prophets and I am happy to point them out and even ridicule them where necessary. Its kind of my job around here – Marianne will verify that.
So you guys keep predicting and I will continue to set things straight. Some people think I’m crazy but I’m merely using logic. And not some of that faulty logic that many around here subscribe to. I’m talking about the book-learnin’ type.
I’ll be happy if I’m wrong and the Second Coming happens sooner, but I’m not going to force current events to fit a pre-prescribed time scale. I think we will all know for sure when the tribulation actually starts, so we won’t be having these discussions at that point.
And also at that time any hope of an early rapture will have completely evaporated leaving many in a desperate scramble to figure out how they are going to get through the tribulation.
Good luck to those folks.
Bless.
your math is not logical.
you added 31 years to the thousand years.
4000 years is not 4031 years. that is simple math.
so somewhere, the calendar is off.
actually, if 4000 years is really 4031 years,
then
2000 more years is really 2015.5 years
seems we are right on schedule!!!
🙂
🙂
🙂
🙂
?
Your math is out of a 3 stooges routine…
🙂
I added 2000 years to the time Christ ascended to heaven in the year 31 : 31 + 2000 = the year 2031. Where is the math off there?
You are assuming the years zero is the starting point. I am not.
you assume rounded years of prophecy fulfillment…..1000, 2000, 4000 then suddenly you add 31 years ….this is inconsistent, and I do understand the 31 years part…….if christ does not fit in rounded years of 1000, then do not use 2000 and add 31 to it.
Marianne,
You are assuming that God is trying to fulfill His prophecy according to the Gregorian calendar on exact centuries.
Look, if you subtract 1000 years from the resurrection you get 970 BC, accounting for the fact that there was no year zero since man had not yet invented the concept of zero yet, though I’m sure God knew of it already.
So, if you want the dates according to the calendar we use today it would look like this:
Fall of Adam: 3970 BC (Not 4000 BC)
The Flood: 2970 BC (Not 3000 BC)
Covenant with Abraham: 1970 BC (Not 2000 BC)
Building of the temple: 970 BC (Not 1000 BC)
Resurrection of Christ: 31 AD (Not 0)
Return of Christ: 2131 AD (Not 2000 AD)
It is all very simple. Biblical events spaced 1000 years apart. FORGET the calendar dates, we don’t need to know them other than the last event from which we can extrapolate the next one.
But maybe you’re right and God only does these things on an approximate basis – no need to be exact. So the last 2 millennium only need to run for 1988 years or whatever – close enough for bible work…
I don’t know, I’m only guessing at a logical interpretation here. After all, everyone is counting years from this to that (just look at Jan’s latest insane calculations) trying to figure a date.
So I look at the “big picture” and try to think on a grander scale. And it looks like it could actually work quite well.
KISS, remember?
But I’m still looking for definite signs and until I see some, I’m sticking with this assumption, just as a good possible reference – nothing more.
Time will tell.
Bless.
james
you are right they are approximate times
Adam – year 1
flood – year 1656 from adam
abraham born – 1948 years from adam
covenant with abraham – 2023 years from adam (75 yo)
There’s still hope for a soon Rapture as the following is to be reviewed:
THE FIG TREE (Israel) that Jesus told us to WATCH:
1898: 2nd Zionist Conference 1898 – 2018 (Christ’s Return) = 120 yrs.
1967-2018 = 50 FULL yrs (also 52 yrs/one Bliblical gener, 1967-2019)
1898 – 1938 Holocaust = 40 yrs (testing)
1898 – 1948 Statehood = 50 yrs
1917 – 1967 = 50 yrs
1918 – 1938 = 20 yrs (military age & end of age of accountability/begin at age 12)
1918 Balfour Declar – 2018 = 100 yrs
1948 Statehood – 2018 = 70 yrs
1918 – 1948 = 30 yrs (30=maturity)
1897 (1st Zionist Conf) – 1967 = 70 yrs
1938 (Holocaust) – 2018 = 80 yrs
519 B.C. (Hag 2) + 2520 = 2011 (the 1-yr warning, Jerusalem UFO Jan 29, 2011)
1611 King James Bible + 400 yrs = 2011
JUBILEES: In Gen 6:3 God promised 120 Jub’s to fallen man (120 x 50), which is 6000 full yrs.
They seem to be divided thusly (& loosely):
40 Jub’s NO LAW, 40 Jub’s LAW, 40 Jub’s GRACE……total 120 Jubilees……………………………………..= 120 Jubilees
80 Jub’s (to Birth of Christ; 4000 yrs from Creation to yr 0) +40 more Jub’s to end of 6000………………= 120 Jubilees
60 Jub’s Creation to David (1000 B.C.) and 60 more Jub’s to end of the 6000………………………………..= 120 Jubilees
30 Jub’s Creation to flood (intruc to bldg ark at 4500 B.C.) thn +90 Jubilees to end…………………………= 120 Jubilees
Jewish History also involved 3 x 40 (3 x 40 Jub’s = 120 Jub’s) in Moses’ life: 40 yrs in Egypt, 40 yrs in desert, 40 yrs as leader of Hebrews (wandering).
Also, God has strived with man’s 120 yrs of wickedness/as Noah’s 120, the 120 Jub’s of Gen 6:3 and Moses’ death at 120 yrs (i.e. 3 x 40):
The KILLING of BABIES produces God’s GREATEST WRATH.
40 yrs disbelief/wandering of Hebrews preceded by killing of babies (Moses as baby in Nile)
40 yrs John the Baptist’s preaching (unbelieving generation) to Temple Destruc in 70-71 A.D (preceded by killing of babies by Herod)
40 yrs last wicked generation (1961-2001)…..millions of abortions/homosexuality….etc
Rosh 2018 minus 17 ‘uncounted yrs’ is 2001, but plus 280 days ‘spiritual gestation of the Remnant is Tammuz 17, the day they enter Temple w/ Jesus (Isa 63).
The Church’s ‘spiritual gestation’ period seems to be Hoshana Rabah (Tishrei 21….7th mth, 7th Feast, 21st day/triple 7) to Av 7, 2012, then plus 23 days (that will minus) is Av 30/Signing, 1st 1260 begins (+3 days is Elul 3/RAPTURE).
The 17 ‘uncounted’ yrs:
7-yr trib (H.S.’s restraining power gone from earth replaced by huge, occultic delusion sent by God)
4 yrs Jesus’ ministry, Millennial in nature (Jesus counted it all JOY to go to the cross/cried over Jerusalem): infinite possibilities for healings, resurrections, salvation….MILLENNIAL. Half years were never counted; plus the 3.5 yrs ministry is 4 yrs. These yrs of Jesus’ Ministry were OUTSIDE of the 6,000 yrs for fallen man since they were Millennial in nature (Heavenly)….infinitie possibilities for salvation/resurrection/healings because the TRINITY was walking the earth
2 yrs Creation to the count START of the 120 Jubilees (since God BEGAN the 6,000 yr count at man’s fall; 1st yr man was perfect/2nd yr a ZERO yr, but count had to start on a ONE yr).
1 yr, Jesus’ age of 0 – 1 (birth to age 1), not counted because only WHOLE #’s were counted in Bible.
1 yr Jesus’ gestation of 280 days (gestation periods were not counted)……and 75 days are needed to complete a full Jewish yr. (to be fulfilled after the Return/30+45=75).
1 yr Church’s gestation of 280 days/Tish 21 to Av 6, 2012….?…..(the additional 75 not needed because the Church is past judgment)
1 yr Remnant’s gestation of 280 days Rosh, 2018 to Tammuz 17, 2019, Entrance into Temple.
If this is the case, then Rosh Hashana 2018 (minus 17 yrs) is the year Rosh Hashana 2001, the day that the year becomes 5779 and the start of the 121st JUBILEE (the new and first 50-yr span of the Millennium; but the 6 mths must be added along w/ the 150 additional days as at pre-trib). The ages of the Bible characters from Adam and onward reach approx 6,000 yrs as well PLUS the way the Jubilees span throughout the 6,000 yrs makes sense as well. There are also awesome patterns beginning at the BIRTH of ABRAHAM (1996 B.C.) spanning throughout the 6,000 yrs in EXACT spans; but if no one is interested in the modern Fig Tree patterns, interest in the awesome patterns beginning at 1996 B.C. cannot be material for interest either. All the spans begin at 1996 B.C. and end at 1996 A.D………….then plus 7 years (because the 7-yr trib has to be PLACED somewhere) ends at the year 2003, which is really 2001. The years NEVER disappear, but are placed somewhere else in history. All of these great spans were reviewed in Wiesenant’s first book ’88 Reasons.’ I gleaned what was useful and threw out the rest. To review those awesome spans is futile as no one takes it seriously JUST because the Rapture was not in ’88. I think that 1988 was the year that everyone should have started serious study of the end times.
Rosh Hashana/Yom Kippur 2001 is to start the Millennium BUT 6 mths have to be added to come to NISAN 1 in order for the Ezek 45:18 command to be observed. But the 150-day Noah delay on THIS side of the trib (Nisan 1, 2012 +150 days = TUESDAY, Elul 3, presumed Rapture) coincides with the 150 days on the post-return side ending at Elul 3, 2019. Thus the entire trib (w/ the -23 days taken into account) is Elul 3 to Elul 3.
Also, the end of the trib is Sept 5, 2019 and plus 360 days (the first perfect, Millen yr) brings the date to SEPT 1, 2020, the new and continuing Rosh Hashana 2020.
PASSOVER, 2013 (Mar 26) plus exactly 2300 days Temple Desecration (Dan 8:13-14) is the RETURN, July 13, 2019, SATURDAY.
SATURDAY, Av 30, 2012, was the probable SIGNING (last day of AV……Kaduri’s message of AV, 5772 ?), a.c. stops sacrifices/enters Temple/killed on SATURDAY, Jan 30, 2016, and the RETURN is a SATURDAY. Aso Entrance into the Temple will be a SATURDAY (Isa 63); thus SABBATHS are across the board.
Mid trib (a.c. satanically ‘rises’) is TUES, FEB 2, 2016, AQUARIUS 11 (if applicable) and if one subtracts the projected 23 days, the date reverts back to January 11, 2016, which is the 8th day of the 8th Feast (8th day Christmas) because when you minus the 12-day calendar discrepancy, the date is DEC 31, 2015 which is the 8th day after KISLEV 24 (of Hag 2) which was TEVET 1, the anniv of Jesus’ conception on the 8th day of the 8th Feast. So the a.c.’s ‘resurrection’ at mid trib (when the earth is straight) will be seen ‘as’ the original solar TEVET 1, the anniversary date of Jesus’ conception.
Aug 21, Tues, 2012, presumed Rapture is a 3rd Day and TUESDAY is the traditional/ancient groom arrival day (3rd day) and a possible fulfillment of Hosea 6:2-3. This Tuesday, Aug 21, is also VIRGO 1, the 1st day of the entire Mazzarot cycle, a likely day for the Church’s residence in Heaven to commence.
So, in a sense, when all is considered, there are these awesome basic spans:
Elul 3, 2012 (Rapture) to Elul 3, 2019 (trib end)
Av 10 -Tammuz 17/Temple Entrance (because the Rapture minus 23 days is Av 10…..thus the Rapture will be seen ‘as’ Av 10 when the earth is straight)
Rosh 2011 to Rosh 2018
Nisan 1, 2012 to Nisan 1, 2019
150-day delay on this side, 150-day on the post Return side
Succoth 8 (Tish 22/last day of last feast/last trump blown) plus 280 = Av 7, plus 23 days (will minus) is Sat, Av 30, probable SIGNING.
All of the above (which is only a ‘fraction’ of all that is available for study) cannot just be THROWN OUT!! Surely it all means SOMETHING!!
Absolutely everything fits and we are inundated with Fig Tree patterns plus the three 1260’s, the 1290 from mid trib, the 1335 from mid trib, the 2300 days, the 7mths burying/bldg 3rd Temple, the 280 days, the 6 mths addition to Rosh, the 150 on both sides, Passover 2013 starting the 2300 & ending exactly at the Return (July 13, 2019 which is also CANCER 22/11,11,11 if applicable)…..on and on.
There’s SO much to glean at this point, and after TUESDAY, it trails off miserably into inexplainable territory. I DON’T want the Rapture to come for myself necessarily; but instead I CAN’T STAND to BE WRONG and I CAN’T WILLINGLY DISMISS all of the above; and for some strange reason it gives me comfort to know (or to imagine) that someone else (w/ a ‘maniacal interest’ in this subject) shares my mental quandry…..thus I keep writing (bothering) to you. But note, it’s NOT a bother if you just delete it!
O.K., so now it’s Tuesday again. Well at least that gives me time to eat the rest of my cake.
It sounds like you believe the earths axial tilt will magically straighten to 0 degrees before this happens. Wow, now there’s a biblical sign for you!
Of course all this is doomed to failure because as I said, there is no rapture.
But I do believe you are slowly zooming in on that fact or realization I should say. You know what Einstein said about doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results… You can’t keep these insane calculations going forever before the whole thing fall apart – or you do, so here’s to hoping for a quick recovery from this delusion and on to looking forward to the tribulation and the second coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Amen.
The PATTERNS are the greatest ‘friend’ we have; because the world is falling apart and Christians MUST see the SOLUTION for the horror of it all. Without the patterns, the world situation would scare me to death. WHO sees the patterns (esp the Fig Tree)?……only Christians who value Israel in these last days….not those ‘Replacement theology’ folks, though. They want all of God’s promises to Israel for THEMSELVES and they are anti-semitic and don’t know it.
The earth will straighten when Jesus’ foot touches down onto the Mt of Olives at His Return (Zech 14:4, Isa 13:13, 24:1,19,20…..”earth will MOVE from its place in the sky”)……not before. Before the flood the earth was straight due to the Genesis verses that review Noah’s 5-mth delay in the Ark = 150 days (5×30). The Polar ice caps remain on earth en masse because of the tilt which determines the way (angle) the sun’s rays hit the earth/ with extremes of seasons. At the end of the trib Scripture states that there will be no wind, no rain and great heat, causing mega evaporation to form the protective rakia (lattice/work water canopy) above the earth again. Why else would Isaiah say that a 100-yr old would be as a child, 12 crops a year on fruit trees….etc. Perhaps the arrival of the New Jerusalem in the solar system will pull at the earth causing the straightening…..I don’t know. Why are tropical seeds/plants/animals found UNDER the ice?……because the whole world was once tropical……much more oxygen/wet air……thus the dinosaurs could cool off their hot breath from the digestion of food……….but they smothered/choked from the post-flood air as is now. Why is there just one tropical rain forest belt of green surrounding the whole earth?
As for your silly cake, it’s OLD by now; and if it’s not the kind of cake I make (with WW flour, flax, wheat germ, almond meal, cactus sugar….etc), it’s junk food. That’s probably why it’s hard for you to see the reasoning in my letters.
Are you deluded enough to actually LOOK FORWARD to the tribulation?…..the 7 yrs when God is sending a great DELUSION making it neartly impossible to believe any truth?? Irvin Baxter (T.V.) thinks there’s no rapture either…..thus no Blessed Hope and if he thinks he’s encouraging the Church, he’s NOT. He says “God will take you through the trib”…..etc…..NO, Lot was taken OUT of Sodom and the ancient Jewish honeymoon was 7 days (away from the village). During the trib the sky will be full of UFOs and occultism will reign…….mega scarey!!! But in His mercy God will plaster the earth with Scripture via the blessed 144,000 world Jewish Evangelists, because only the power of the the Word of God will counter the mental delusion. The only physical survivors of the trib will be the ones who will find a good enough CAVE for safety (& to escape the great heat) with enough ammunition to fight off the 100’s of ravenous animals and other desperate humans trying to get at them for food! (if the germs from the lack of sanitation & filth doesn’t kill them first). Decapitation will have been a sweet release! The trib is the WRATH of God, 7 yrs of Jacob’s trouble (Jer 30:7) to procure the Jewish Remnant (the REAL ISRAEL of the “all Israel shall be saved”) NOT judgment for the Church; because God said that the Church is NOT appointed unto wrath. The trib earth will be NO PLACE for a BRIDE!
I’m only calculating as long as everything still FITS within the REAL patterns and I won’t go beyond their limits. For the scenario to reach Rosh, 2012 goes beyond the patterns; and unless I figure some amazing reason for that to be the case, I can’t see beyond Tuesday.
The ancient betrothed Bride would stand by her door after 2 yrs of waiting…..even 2 FULL yrs; and first she would hear the clip clop of horse’s hooves…..NO GROOM; then of a neighbor…………NO GROOM…………..then of kids playing…………NO GROOM………..then of a dog scratching at the door………NO, not the GROOM!; but the Groom PROMISED to return after 2 yrs (“2 days”)! and she BELIEVES his promise AND GOD can’t LIE………………..thus the Rapture HAS to be SOON!…..because the 2000+ yrs of GRACE is OVER (Hos 6:2-3). Today’s Church has been tempted to give up and just go back to daily business forgetting all the promises of the Groom (scofferism).
Jan,
It seems we have some agreement here.
You said, “ There are also awesome patterns beginning at the BIRTH of ABRAHAM (1996 B.C.) spanning throughout the 6,000 yrs in EXACT spans”
I agree about the exact spans of a millennium each between significant biblical events. I think the birth of Abraham is far less important than the year of God’s covenant with him. Just as the birthday of Jesus is far less important than the year of His ascension to the throne (31AD)
Not knowing for certain the earlier dates, the one date we do know for sure is the resurrection, so that was the last of these “awesome patterns.”
We can assume that the birth of Jesus was not the date or else the second coming would have already happened.
If you think the Second Coming will be in 2018 let’s say, then the awesome date would have been in Jesus’ 20th year, and we have no record of that year, so no “awesome” there.
We also know that God is working on a solar cycle and not the Hebrew year (civil calendar) or else the Second Coming would have come many years ago. Also many other prophecies such as Daniel have been show to have played out in solar years. (Al).
So unless you need to hammer these “awesome exact” timings by adding or subtracting years due to dead babies or honeymoons, it seems that 2031 will be the next awesome date.
And besides, don’t all those calculations give you a headache? Give it a break for a few years and see what happens…
🙂
I think you are trying to force fit “1000” into biblical timing.
Nope, just sayin’, if God works in round numbers, then 2031 is the year. If He doesn’t, than it could be tomorrow.
It‘s just an idea – take it or leave it.
Make it super complicated like Jan if you want, but to me 2013 has a logical simplicity that can’t be matched.
So we wait……….
I am making it less complicated.
Jesus comes when he comes…….
no math, unless the bible says to calculate it.
so you switched to 2013?
Oops – sorry for the 2013 typo. Darned neuropathy!
James,
Thanks for your reponse. One more quick question: the Spring Feasts of Yah played out to the exact day and hour of Messiah’s first coming. In other words, Messiah was crucified on the exact hour and day as the Jews were observing Passover. The Jews were not observing their Holy days based on the solar calendar, but rather on the lunar calendar. So, how did that happen? Even now, the Spring Feasts and Fall Feasts stay within their normal time range. For example, the Fall Feasts (in the Hebrew month of Tishrei according to the lunar calendar) always falls in the Sept to Oct time frame, which are the same two months for the solar calendar. The Muslim nations follow a strict lunar calendar with no adjustments to the solar cycle, which at times causes them to have summer in the winter months. This does not happen on the Hebrew Calendar. It is hard to understand why Yah would base Messiah’s first coming on the lunar cycle and let man dictate His return based on the solar cycle. Man has changed times and seasons, but I don’t see Yah as allowing that to dictate the time of His second coming. Just my thoughts only. Not meant to infer scientific proof.
Be blessed my brother
Al,
I’m sure Jesus will fulfill the fall feasts by returning on the day of trumpets and taking his throne on the day of atonement, according to the Hebrew calendar. The Jews don’t use the 360 day calendar – like the Gregorian they add days every so often to keep the seasons in sync. So there is no conflict here and as I mentioned, we know from fulfilled prophecy that the times mentioned are in solar (full) years.
Maybe we all just need to call them “actual” years and not try to attach them to any calendar system.
I’m sure we all agree the 6000 years that are coming to a close are actual years and not multiples of 360 days.
So I don’t see the problem here.
Bless…
Al, please read my reply at further down and watch the posted links.
Blessings
Psalm 1
Hey Jan,
First of all my cake is still fine. I even put some in the freezer for next month assuming today is a bust.
But my main point is your assertion that the church won’t be protected during the tribulation. It will.
Never has God removed anyone from the planet to protect them. Not Noah, not Lot (and remember – his wife died in the process for not obeying God), not the people of Moses (remember the blood over the door so the plagues would “pass over” them? Did not Daniel go into the lion’s den and the three Jews into the fiery furnace?
Didn’t the Christians at the time of the temple destruction in 70 AD receive protection from the Roman army in Petra, even though they could have easily looked for them there?
God has shown us how He protects His church over and over again all thru the bible and yet modern preachers teach a completely non-biblical explanation for a similar event. People believe what they want to believe.
So be it. Keep calculating all you want. It won’t help.
You won’t be going to heaven. Think about it – if Jesus returned and gave the living incorruptible bodies, why take them to heaven? They would already have all the protection they would ever need. And why resurrect the dead? What do they need protection from anyway?
No, God will do what He has always done. The question is, will you be ready willing and able to flee at the appointed time or will you still be looking up (or down at your calculator) waiting for a free ride to heaven?
You need to stop living a pipe dream and get with the program – God’s program, not the “Left Behind” movie program.
Bless, brother.
Hey James,
Just a quick question. I can’t find the post where I thought you said that, the timing of Messiah’s second return is based on the solar calendar. If that was your assertion, why?
Mercy!…..talk about a project!…..to convince someone who is happy with a depressing, post -trib mindset over to the glorious hope and confidence of a pre-trib Rapture mindset…………YOU are one for the BOOKS!!! (& frozen cake is gross…..original texture is ruined.) Know that there NEVER has been the full evidence of Grace for the world to see, other than the glorious, Resurrected Body of Jesus on Easter Day! But the world will see it AGAIN when the Bride is snatached away. Grace is this strange relationship of God to humans…….the Bride and the Groom, Who treats His Bride with love and care; and Grace has only existed for these last 2000+ yrs. The Great 888 (Jesus) started a whole new sytem for humans. Why is it hard to believe that we get to experience the privilege of being taken away before all ‘hell breaks loose?’ The Bible says there has NEVER been a time as bad as the trib nor will there EVER again BE a time as bad as the trib. We’re not talking NORMAL life AT ALL! The Church cannot be here for that time. Why do you think that God is sending the 144,000 Jewish Evangelists throughout the world? Unless you can prove that you are one of THEM, then that job is likely not planned for you.
The great delusion will involve the likely explanation of the Rapture as that of mega alien abductions. Why else would a Divinely- sent delusion be necessary?………..because it will be SO hard for the world to believe that the Christians experienced something wonderful. Instead the lie will likely be that the Christians were destroyed because they don’t fit into the ‘New World Order’….or whatever. People will be scared to death to defy the strange, new government (occultic) system that will rule the earth.
The main purpose of my letters is to push the Church into “Holler & Run” mode. If Christians realized and SAW the trib day approaching (…”as you SEE the day approaching”), they would all madly SHOUT OUT the Gospel with constant force and perserverance because NEGATIVE REACTIONS can’t bother one who has ‘already left the building!’ One can say anything if the angered reaction can’t hurt you. Well, there’s no time for hurtful rejection anymore…….EASIEST time in all of history to be a MISSIONARY!!
With all the horrific problems occuring now: seas raging, unmatched weather anomalies/flooding/highest winds ever, fish/porpoises dying, birds falling from air, strange sounds in earth, earth-sized solar flares, multiple quakes, blood-red lakes, new rules for parents of homosexual minors, eugenics, euthanasia, abortions, drugs, extreme threat to Israel’s survival, Moslem takeover, UFO’s, crucifixions of Christians in Egypt/to bring to mind the Lord’s death on the Cross for US, teens immersed with the teaching of evolution/’no purpose to life’……………endless!………….No! This place cannot last even another few MONTHS! If one listens to the news, there is NO WAY one can see any other solution to these mega problems other than a huge action by the Lord; PLUS the problems/warnings FIT Scripture!
The condition of the human heart determines God’s actions; and today the ocultic condition is SO BAD (as in Noah’s day) that even the extra-dimensional entities (UFO’s etc) are being allowed to appear…..evidence of just SOME of the heavy spiritual battle going on above us. The earth is getting ready to be INUNDATED by these evil forces……but FIRST the RESTRAINER has to be taken out of the way (Holy Spirit- indwelt Church/dead & living Christians exit…….+ all embryos, babies, children, teens……….depending on each one’s ‘age of accountability’ & all mentally retarded from birth).
Now, go eat your last piece of cake before this week ends!
all this talk is making me hungry. 🙂
…..then let’s keep talking!….might as well eat with our old bodies as long as we can!…..as I’m not so sure what eating will be like in our new bodies!
Anyway, lo and behold!, I’ve come up with the following:
Here is SPEC at its BEST and seemingly simpler than ever!
FEAST of TRUMPETS WAS OUR DAY!!!!…….No, NOT Rosh Hashana 2012, but Rosh Hashana 2011 !!!….one yr, 6 mths and 5 mths AGO.
You DO want an attempted explanation for the delay, don’t you? The 5th Feast, Rosh 2011/TRUMPETS, next one to be fulfilled WAS our day after all, except that the 280-day spiritual gestation had to be completed (Rosh +280 is Tammuz 13, 2012) then plus the 52 is the Rapture, Elul 6 (the 52 days that will balance/’cancel out’ the post Return 52 days which is the 75 (30+45) -23 days tilt loss at the Return when earth straightens to a 360-day yr. The 52 on THIS side is in GRACE; and the 52 on the post Return side is in JUDG. So our gestation was the 280 days from Rosh 2011 = Tammuz 13 (before the 52 is added) and the Return is right at Tammuz 13 (end of Remnant’s gestation) which is Rosh 2018 plus the 280 days Remnant’s spiritual gestation.
Jesus had a physical gestation, and both the Church and the Remnant are the BODY of Christ and need a gestation period as well. Did Jesus NEED the gestation period?….no; but we DO! Remember, when the Christian accepted Christ, was it preceded by a 280-day gestation period?….No……We were just BORN into the Kingdom; so the Church and the Remnant both need the spiritual 280-day gestation period. Note that our 280-day gestation inside of our mothers did NOTHING for our spiritual condition as we were born in sin.
Rosh 2011 plus 280 days ‘spiritual gestation of the Church’ (plus 52 more days) is FRIDAY, Aug 24, Elul 6.
The Signing, 3 days earlier was Tuesday, Elul 3, Aug 21; and minus the projected -23 days is AV 9-10……FAST DAY.
You already know that the Pyramid timeline is 5772 Rosh 2011 to 5779 Rosh 2018 which holds perfectly as well when all is considered. Again, the ht in inches of the Great Pyramid (w/ capstone Isa 19:19) is 5779 & sun’s temp is 5779 degrees Kelvin. Also add the Hebrew letters of Isa 19:19-20 (monument as testimony/Pyramid) to total 5449, the ht in inches of the Great Pyramid w/out the capstone.
Also, the RETURN is TAMMUZ 13, 2019 (280 past Rosh 2018/the ‘spiritual gestation’ of the Remnant) and the 52 days follow in judgment (75-23=52 due to earth straightening). The RETURN is also a TUESDAY, 3rd day (as Hosea 6:2-3…..Israel ‘raised up as a plain…etc.’) Signing was as a yet unrevealed ‘Jewish wedding Ketubbah/contract’ on a TUESDAY, followed by 1260 days when a.c. breaks covenant/+killed on Feb 2, 2016…….a TUESDAY. The RETURN is also a TUESDAY.
ROSH 2011 plus the 6 months to NISAN 1/”beginning of days” as commanded by God to Noah (Millennial New Year’s Day/Ezek 45:18/see Grant Jeffrey’s ‘Armageddon, appt w/ Destiny, pg 61) is March 24, 2012; and exactly 5 solar months later is this Friday, August 24, Elul 6. If the 5 months are to be seen as 5 perfect months, then the end of the 5 months is TUESDAY, Elul 3, Aug 21, VIRGO 1…..the probable SIGNING. Virgo 1 is the first day of the Mazzarot cycle that Job challenged the reader to UNDERSTAND. 5 solar mths are 153 days, 5 Jewish mths are 148 days, 5 perf mths are 150 days. In the case of the signing & Rapture 3 days later, you have the 150 from Nisan 1 (Signing)and 153 from Nisan 1 (Rapture). Remember that Noah was in the Ark for an additional 150 days (5 perf/Millen mths) til his exit; and our delay is the same span (….”as in the days of Noah”….etc). The SIGNING is the actual start of the first 1260 of a.c. ‘keeping’ the covenant w/ Israel, but the Aug 24 Rapture 3 days after the SIGNING starts the 2nd 1260 span, that of Elijah and Moses’ ministry til their murder by the ‘risen’ a.c. on Feb 5, 2016 (three days after Feb 2). They will rise 3+ days after their death…….Feb 8-9).
The SIGNING on Tues, Elul 3, Aug 21, 2012 minus the future tilt loss of 23 days is AV 9-10…….the projected START of the trib when all figuring is over when the trib scenario is seen in retrospect.
MID-TRIB is TUESDAY, Feb 2, 2016 (Aquar 11, if applicable), Abomination of Desolation (a.c. in Temple/killed) and minus the projected 23-day loss brings the projected date back to Jan 11, 2016 (‘8th day Christmas’ Gk Orthod, orig date) which is really Dec 31, 2015 because of the 12-day calendar discrepancy. Dec 31 is the original, solar anniversary of the 8th day of the 8th Feast (from the KISLEV 24 originally Dec 24 first day Creation), the solar anniversary of the conception of Jesus at TEVET 1 because plus 280 days gestation is Succoth, His Birth. Kislev 24 is counted all the way through Tevet 1 (8th day) because those 7 days are still CREATION ‘DAY;’ thus Haggai 2 is still applicable in all its fury.
PASSOVER, 2013 is March 26, TUESDAY NISAN 15….plus exactly 2300 days Temple Desecration/Dan 8:13-14 (blood of 1st lamb sacrifice ‘desecrates’ the Temple) to the RETURN at TUESDAY, TAMMUZ 13, July 16, 2019….END of Temple Desecration. If applicable, that day is also CANCER 24 (11th sign/judg via 888/Jesus); and 30 days mourning later is Jesus’ Isa 63 Entrance into the Temple LEO 24 (12th sign/Lion/Conqueror via 888/Jesus). There are 3 extra days added to the 2300 because the 3 days at mid-trib when a.c. is ‘dead’ are not counted just as Jesus’ 3 days in the tomb were NOT counted in the 49-day count to Pentecost……thus 2303 total.
The day Jesus enters the Temple is also AV 15 (tu b’ Av), the same day the Hebrews entered Canaan (all age 20 at start to age 60 were dead), same day tribe of Benjamin rejoined, wedding day for tribes to choose virgins, ‘breaking of the Ax,’ Israel’s Valentines Day…..etc. That day is also AUGUST 15, 2019. Av 15 is a known as a Happy Day on the Hebrew Calendar…….a likely day for the great ‘wedding procession’ from Petra w/ His beloved Remnant (Isa 63).
45 days judg of the Nations later is the end of the trib at Sept 6, 2019, ELUL 6, same Jewish day as the ELUL 6 Rapture 2012. Without the minus 23 day tilt loss figured in, the end is Sept 29, 2019, Elul 29, ONE DAY before Rosh Hashana 2019!!!……Wow!…..talk about a close call! The date does NOT reach ROSH HASHANA 2019…..it just CAN’T (in MY eyes); thus it still counts as ROSH HASHANA 2018!! God always dealt in FULLNESS of TIME…….to the BRINK……to the EDGE…….to the absolute LIMIT……then RESCUE!!!!!!
Of course mid trib Feb 2, 2016 plus the 1290 is Entrance into Temple 30 days after the Return; and Feb 2, 2016 plus 1335 is the end. The 1260 days of Petra Protection begins on Feb 2, 2016, the day the a.c. is killed…..til the Return at July 16, 2019, Tues, Tammuz 13.
After the Rapture (likely this Fri, Aug 24, Elul 6) there will likely be 2-7 days of world chaos & N. Invasion of Israel followed by God’s
Divine Victory in Israel’s mts (hail/quake/huge carnage…Ezek 38-39, Isa 17:1) then followed by 7 mths burying bodies/+bone search by Dead Sea along with the 7 mths of bldg the 3rd Temple in Jerusalem ending at PASSOVER, 2013 when 3rd Temple Worship begins.
Thus in a sense, the trib spans are:
Rosh 2011 to Rosh 2018
Rosh 2011 +280 to Tammuz 13, 2012 (+52 to RAPTURE) to Rosh 2018 +280 to Tammuz 13, 2019 (RETURN)
Nisan 1, 2012 to Nisan 1, 2019
Elul 6, 2012 to Elul 6, 2019
Tammuz 13, 2012 (end of Church’s gestation) to Tammuz 13, 2019 RETURN (end of Remnant’s gestation)
Interestingly, the end of the trib (w/ the -23) is Sept 6, 2019 (and LIBRA 6); and if one adds the first, perfect, Millennial 360-day year, one comes to SEPT 1, 2020, the probable new and adjusted, Millennial ROSH HASHANA Tishrei 1, LIBRA 1, first day of FALL.
One also notes the 2550 days from SIGNING to Jesus’ Tempe Entrance matching the 2550 YEARS from 583 B.C. destruction of Temple to 1967….one of SO many patterns.
Of course all the modern Fig Tree patterns beginning at 1898 Zionist Conf (20,30,40,50,60,80,100,120….+more) to Rosh 2018 still hold perfectly……but after Rosh 2018, the 6 mths must be added to honor the Ezek 45:18 command (official, Millen start date), then the +5 additional mths……all to match the pre-Rapture delay from Rosh 2011……..as an equation via God’s perfect math harmony in the patterns. Also, 1967 to 2019 is 52 yrs, supposedly a Biblical generation (according to Jack Van Impe). Praise God for the PATTERNS!
If any further credence is to be give to the strange message given by the dying Rabbi Kaduri that the Messiah would come in the month of Av, yr 5772; subtract the future 23-day loss from the presumed Aug 21 SIGNING day/start of the first 1260 (Elul 3), and that day is AV 9. So that message holds IF it’s valid.
Let me say again that with the above in mind, one should be able to WITNESS w/ VIGOR at this point since there’s little risk of rejection or negative reaction to the Gospel message……cause “We’re LEAVIN’ on a JET PLANE’/out the door/”can’t HEAR YOU!!”. Alas (trying that ‘Old English talk’…..sounds respectable), I’ve WATCHED all I can WATCH! Now leave me alone!……SORRY, I meant that I have to leave YOU alone!……………..You see, the study has driven me crazy after all……I’m even BESIDE myself!!!
Hey Jan,
Well I can’t believe you’re still at it after today’s prediction was a bust. But I have a feeling you will never run out of new ways to calculate the rapture. I checked just this last blog and you used at least 70 variables to make this computation. But the problem I have is that you never show your work. My old calculus teacher would give you hell for that. How can we double-check your figures? How do we know you aren’t just making up a bunch of numbers that sound biblical but have no connection to end time events? And how can you determine whether to add or subtract one number from another? Where did you learn all this from? Do you have some divinely inspired source or are you just making it up as you go? Were you visited by an angel like Jacob, Daniel, Joseph Smith and Mohammed? Am I asking too many questions?
Am I the only one who actually reads your posts?
I found one error that might affect your calculations.You assume that if the earth’s tilt were straightened to 0 degrees the solar year would drop to 360 days, but the axial tilt and the rotational speed are not related. To get the year down to 360 days the earth’s rotation would have to be slowed down or else the earth would have to be moved to an orbit closer to the sun to speed it up. In either case it would screw up the climate and wipe out unnamed species. Of course, adjusting the tilt to zero would do even worse damage so what the hell. Might as well just screw up the whole planet royally.
Its funny, you worry about going thru the tribulation for 3 short years but you are fine living 1000 years in a totally messed up planet. Sheesh!
I do feel sorry for all the people who wait in vain for a rapture that never comes. You have been giving us a taste of that for a while now and it is unpleasant and frustrating. According to you, the world will be at war in just a few months – in order to fit into your schedule. Many others have expressed the same view based on different but similar time frames for the second coming all based on the erroneous 7-year tribulation period.
This will have the effect of scaring many gullible people unnecessarily, and without a rapture to save them they are going to freak out as the time approaches. Hopefully by next spring all these bogus predictions will be declared false prophecy and folks will move on and restudy scripture and learn the truth. This goes for all the Mayan calendar and Nibiru enthusiasts as well.
Personally, I can’t wait for all this nonsense to pass so maybe people will start taking me seriously.
Yeah – like that’s going to happen…
James
When Nibiru shows up and Jesus start his next mission from the Vatican then people will take me seriously 🙂
Keep dreamin’ kid…
Al,
You may find these helpful or at least interesting in your study of dates/times and God’s calendar.
This is part 5 of a 12 part presentation.
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?v=XsViciu9U3I
Then, you can watch part 6.
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?v=ZgmucR3bB1s
It very logical.
Blessings
No one needs MORE confusion (whether you take me seriously or not); so I must share the fact that the first sentence in the letter I sent you is not Rosh Hashana 2011 plus ONE YEAR plus 6 mths plus 5 months………..It’s just Rosh Hashana 2011 plus the 6 mths plus the 5 months……sorry.
DJ, I can’t get the above sites to work….sorry. I am NOT computer savvy, so helpful info may not work. It’s o.k. knowing me, I may balk at additional information anyway……funny that way. You’re kind to want to help, though.
Jan,
Those links are portions of Daniel’s timeline presentation located on YouTube. There are 12 individual parts or one really long presentation.
Marianne also has a link on the right margin Daniel’s timeline.
Part 5 and Part 6 (or the middle of the long/continuous video), gives you information on Jubilee Years.
The last jubilee year of record was 1967. Add 50 years and that brings us to 2017 as “The Jubilee Year”.
I trust you will put your calculator and Hebrew calendar down – relax, watch the presentation. Mr. Burton worked on this presentation for over 20 years.
You don’t really need to do any more work on “rapture” or when the “cry” is heard, (which comes before the last trumpet).
It is time to prepare – are you a wise or foolish virgin? That is where we all of us need to focus our time and attention.
Blessings
Psalm 27, 28, 29
Read a very good article about the 360-day earth:
The Pre-Flood 360-Day Calendar & the Secong Coming by Tim Warner, AnswersinRevelation.org
Long but perhaps relevant again considering the times that we are in.
The Ten Virgins.
Parables, as defined by Merriam-Webster are, “specifically: usually a short fictitious story that illustrates a moral attitude or a religious principle.” I would like to add, that when included in biblical scripture that parables also serve to reveal a specific mysterious truth.
They are not unique to being utilized only within the New Testament, but have instead been utilized many times throughout the fullness of scripture, from possibly the very first scripture ever written, that being the Book of Enoch, throughout the Tanakh, (or Old Testament).
I would first like you to have an understanding of what the actual Jewish cultural aspects are, to what we would refer to today as the engagement period and subsequent marriage ceremony. You may find that some of the definitions of the Hebrew to be rather intriguing, in that they can be also attributed to have a spiritual application. As well, it is interesting to note that a time period of (7) seven days, or one week is put aside to celebrate the wedding itself. Could this possibly coincide with what is written within Daniel 9:27?
The Engagement and Marriage: Kiddushin and Nisuin;
Within the traditional Jewish culture, the process of marriage occurs within two distinct stages: The stage of kiddushin (which we would commonly refer to as the engagement period) and nisuin (which would define the act of the marriage ceremony itself). In the past, it wasn’t uncommon at all, for the time period between the two, to be separated by an extended length of time. Many times it would be up to a year apart. The kiddushin takes effect when the woman would accept a proposal that was offered by the prospective husband.
The word “kiddushin” comes from the root “Qof-Dalet-Shin”. This Hebrew root word has within its meaning, two very significant aspects. One of its meanings would be “sanctified”, where the other would be being “set aside for a specific, sacred purpose”. Therefore kiddushin not only expresses the sanctity of this engagement period, but also that this woman has now been set aside specifically to be the wife of only one man in particular.
The engagement period that we are familiar with today in our society, is far more relaxed than kiddushin. Our engagement period now, can be called off, or annulled for any number of reasons.
However when kiddushin had been accepted, the relationship could only be cancelled by either death, or divorce. Though the marriage, (or nisuin) itself hadn’t yet taken place, the woman was considered to be the legal wife of the man. This information should help us to understand Matthew 1:18-20., just a little bit better then.
However, the spouses do not live together at the time of the kiddushin, and the mutual obligations created by the marital relationship do not take effect until the nisuin is complete. During the wedding ceremony itself (7) seven special blessings are read. This is called Sheva B’rachot, (The Seven Blessings.)
The nisuin (from a word meaning “elevation”) completes the process of marriage. “The husband brings the wife into his home and they begin their married life together.”
In contrast to a non-Jewish custom, in which the bride and groom take off to some exotic honeymoon location, “Jewish custom dictates that the couple begin their new life together in the Husbands community.”
For “seven consecutive evenings” following the wedding, it is customary that friends or relatives host festive meals in their honor. The act of feasting recalls the “seven-day celebration” after the marriage of Jacob to Leah, while spending their days in prayer, learning Torah and performing mitzvos in order to give the “new house in Israel” a solid foundation in God’s ways of holiness, (Genesis 29;27). This also confirms what Yeshua said in John 14:1-3.
During this “seven-day celebration”, and the tradition to throw dinner parties for the new couple each night during the week following the wedding. At the end of each of these meals, after Birkat Hamazon (Grace After Meals), Sheva B’rachot are also recited. In fact, these meals themselves are popularly referred to as Sheva B’rachot after the special wedding blessings recited at their end.
Why Ten Virgins?
The number 10 was not just an arbitrary figure that Yeshua happened to pull out of the blue either.
But it appears to be a significant number Biblically. Within the King James the Hebrew “עשר”, transliterated as “’eser”, (Strong’s 6235) has been translated into the English “ten” a total of 172 times.
Some examples would be;
– God would spare the city for 10 righteous. (Genesis 18:32)
– 10 camels were loaded with gifts for Rebekah. (Genesis 24:10)
– Rebekah stayed 10 days before leaving. (Genesis 24:55)
– Joseph had 10 brothers that went to Egypt to buy corn. (Genesis 42:3)
– The Tabernacle had 10 curtains. (Exodus 26:1)
– God gave Moses the 10 Commandments. (Deuteronomy 4:13)
– Boaz had 10 witnesses at his marriage to Ruth. (Ruth 4:2)
– Solomon had 10 lavers for water made for the Temple. (2 Chronicles 4:6)
– Solomon also had 10 golden candlesticks made for the Temple. (2 Chronicles 4:7)
– Solomon also had 10 tables made as well. (2 Chronicles 4:8)
Then there are also the 10 days of Awe that fall between Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, and the 10 lost tribes.
Jewish tradition also believes that there are only ten true Songs in the history of the world. These true Songs are not mere melodies, but they are expressions of the harmony of creation and mark monumental transitions in history.
Interestingly in Jewish tradition, the Tenth Song has not yet been sung yet: it is the Song of the coming of the Mashiach, which will be sung at the End of Days (see Isaiah 26:1).
As well, there is the “Minyan” the quorum necessary to recite certain prayers, consisting of ten adult Jewish men required to establish a synagogue.
Vines Complete Expository Dictionary says that the number “ten”, the Greek “δέκα”, transliterated as “deka”, (Strong’s 1176) has been used a total of 248 times, and that its definition consists of, “the measure of human responsibility”, and is also the number of “completion”.
The above is simply to verify, that apparently with God, the number 10 holds significant meaning, and it was not simply an arbitrary number.
The Parable itself.
In my opinion from conducting this study, there is no doubt in my mind that Matthew 25:1-13. is an accurate description of what is commonly referred to theologically, as the “rapture”.
Scriptural references that have been written that do more than imply that, “Spirit filled believers”, are indeed the “bride” of Yeshua.
These references can be found in the parable of Matthew 22:2-14., Luke 12:36., John 3:29., 2 Corinthians 11:2., Rev. 22:17., and can be substantiated in Rev. 19:7-9. where it is written that an actual “wedding ceremony” will take place in heaven. And this parable, in my opinion, is definitely a description of the choosing of “who” the partakers of that event will be.
Since these verses also describe some form of distinction between these two particular groups of believers, of which some will be considered to be worthy to be His bride, whereas others apparently will not, (Just as a man would not simply marry a woman because she is a woman, or a woman wouldn’t simply marry a man because he is a man), therefore Yeshua, (Jesus) is looking for unique, or prerequisite attributes as well. The following is an effort in an attempt to understand, what those particular distinctions and attributes consist of, and who specifically it is that Yeshua was referring to within the parable itself. i.e.; Who are these two separate groups of five wise, and five foolish?
But, before I explain in my opinion as to what those distinctions are, lets first look at the verses and see what “they” the Ten Virgins had in common.
“1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. 2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: 4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.”
(It is at this point here, that there is a break. It is in a sense a third conditional form. The previous narrative tells of all the virgins going forth with their lamps to meet the Bridegroom and that the wise of them, took oil in the vessels of their lamps, as opposed to the foolish that did not. The following verses describe in more detail as to what took place prior to this happening, and if read in context, the foolish not only did not have “enough” oil, but also arrived late. Implied by the word translated as “afterward” in verse 11)
5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. 6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.7 Then all those virgins arose trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil, for our lamps are gone out. 9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for and you: but go rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. 10 And while they went to buy the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. 11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. 13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.” KJV.
Before going further, I think that something very significant needs to be clarified first. That is the Greek definitions of the word “know” that Yeshua uses in verse 12. It is translated from the Greek word, “εἴδω”, transliterated as “eidō” (Strong’s # 1492) and its definition is exactly what you would think that it means. “Verily I say unto you, I do not “perceive with the eyes, perceive by any of My senses”, You.” (Emphasis and paraphrasing mine.)
This would be a horribly devastating thing to hear from the Lord. That is why He said “Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.” Luke 21:36 KJV.
So what was it that these virgins had in common?
(1) They were all Virgins.
Fortunately I don’t believe that this is referring to our sexual experience at all.
Though the English word “virgin” was translated from the Greek, “παρθένος” transliterated as “parthenos”, (Strong’s 3933) in which its definitions would indeed suggest that it may, I believe instead, that it has more to do with the condition of our hearts. In 2 Corinthians 11:2., Paul says the following,
“For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.”
Here the word “chaste” is used as an adjective to describe a specific quality of the acceptable virgins. The English “chaste” is derived from the Greek “ἁγνός”, transliterated as “hagnos”, (Strong’s 53). The definition of chaste is as follows; “1) exciting reverence, venerable, sacred, 2) pure. a) pure from carnality, chaste, modest. b) pure from every fault, immaculate. c) clean.” I also don’t believe that the Etymology of “hagnos” is coincidental in that it is so closely associated with the Greek “ἅγιος”, transliterated as “hagios”, (Strong’s 40) which is defined as “a most holy thing, a saint” and has been translated into English within the King James as “holy” 161 times, and into “saint” a total of 61.
Therefore I believe that it is reasonable to assume that Yeshua is rather referring to their/our purity of heart, or put another way, our desire to maintain Divine relationship. They were all believers. However, were they all chaste, and did they maintain their commitment to their bridegroom, not allowing for anything to deviate them from their faith?
(2) They all had lamps.
These would have been hand held lamps made out of pottery clay that someone could carry with them. The Hebrew transliteration would be “Niyr” and they would have had a wick (pishtah) as well as an area to contain the olive oil to burn. These lamps can be considered to be a symbolic reference to the Holy Spirit being indwelt within the believer. Ones light can only shine if the Holy Spirit, (or oil) is present and available to utilize. (See (3) below.)
(3) They all had oil.
This can be associated with the above point (2) and is a very significant point as well, for the “oil” is considered and has been established by most every biblical scholar of note, to represent the anointing of the Holy Spirit.
See Exodus 29:7, 29:21. Exodus 30:25, 26, 31. Exodus 40:9, 1 Samuel 16:12, 13. 2 Kings 9:3. for just a few examples out of the numerous others included in the Tanakh. However, notice that in verse (3) it states that the foolish, “took no oil with them”, and in verse (8) that the foolish had run out of oil, and their lamps had gone out, “Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.”
Though it is one of the shortest verses in the Bible, “Quench not the Spirit.” (1 Thessalonians 5:19), should be considered very carefully by all professing Christians. The light of a lamp can only burn with fire. “And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.” Acts 2:3. “I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire.” Matthew 3:11/ Luke 3:16.
The word “quench” above that Paul utilizes in that verse, has been translated from the Greek “σβέννυμι”, transliterated as “sbennumi”, (Strong’s 4570), and its definitions are, “to extinguish, quench of fire, or things on fire, to be quenched, to go out. metaph. to quench, to suppress, “stifle of divine influence.”
Therefore I believe, that it would not be unreasonable to say then, that though one may have the Holy Spirit residing in them, the state of his or her “fire” is determined by the willingness of the host or recipient, to surrendering to that of God’s will, rather than that of their own. One can chose having free will to be of good soil and “stoke” that fire, or quench it. God leaves that choice up to us.
(4) All had been waiting.
Since the “the bridegroom tarried” it would be logical to assume, that while they were waiting for His return, they all carried on with daily life. Just as in the days of Noah, they and we are, “eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage”, before Noah escaped from the flood in the Ark.
(5) All had slumbered and slept.
The Greek “νυστάζω” transliterated as “nystazō”, (Strong’s # 3573) and “καθεύδω” transliterated as “katheudō”, (Strong’s # 2518) respectively, both refer to the act of physical sleep, however, within the definitions of “katheudō”, it is noted to also refer to, “be indifferent to one’s salvation”.
(6) They all heard the cry.
Which in my opinion, the “cry” that is heard in verse (6) is referring to “the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:” that is described in 1 Thessalonians 4:16, and which is also referenced in 1 Corinthians 15:52. as well. I will go into further detail as to why I am of this opinion, within the chapter under the heading, “The Rapture”.
(7) They all heard this call at midnight.
The English word translated as “midnight” which is utilized (6) times within the New Testament has been translated as such, from either one of two Greek words. These would be “μεσονύκτιον” transliterated as “mesonuktion” (Strong’s 3317) which in its definition means simply “midnight” and is used within Mark 13:35., Luke 11:5., Acts 16:25., and 20:7.
The other word is “νύξ” transliterated as “nyx” (Strong’s 3571) when conjoined with the Greek word “μέσος” transliterated as “mesos” (Strong’s 3319), and it is only translated as the word midnight twice. Once in the parable above, Matthew 25:6., and again in Acts 27:27., where Paul had the vision from the angel telling him that all aboard the ship “would be saved”. The definition for “nyx” is as follows; “night, (metaph. the time when work ceases, the time of death, the time for deeds of sin and shame, the time of moral stupidity and darkness, the time when the weary and also the drunken give themselves up to slumber.”
(8) They all made it to the Door.
The five wise entered through it and went in with the Bridegroom to take their part in the marriage, where the five foolish upon arriving, found that the door was shut. There are many references made within scripture regarding the word “door”. Therefore, I suspect that many in the past, when studying this particular parable, because of its innocuousness, have simply chosen to disregard this particular word. However, I personally believe that to conduct proper hermeneutics, critical exegesis must be utilized.
In doing so, I was rather intrigued in finding out what the word “door” revealed.
Though in Greek there are many words that can be utilized to express unique and specific aspects or definitions, (as opposed to the limitations that the English language may provide), when it comes to the word door there is only one.
The Greek word that is translated into English as the word door is the word “θύρα” transliterated as “thyra”, (Strong’s 2374). However, the significance of this word can be found within its definitions, which are as follows; “a door, the vestibule, used of any opening like a door, an entrance, way or passage into. “in a parable or metaphor, the door through which sheep go in and out, the name of him who brings salvation to those who follow his guidance, ” an open door” is used of the opportunity of doing something, the door of the kingdom of heaven (likened to a palace) denotes the conditions which must be complied with in order to be received into the kingdom of God.”
What is interesting to note is where and when this “door” (thyra) appears in the book of Revelation. It is utilized only (3) times. These being Revelation 3:8., 3:20., and finally that of 4:1. This “door” that the wise virgins pass through within this particular parable, is not mentioned once after 4:1 within the rest of the entire book?
(During the course of this study, the thought had occurred to me that perhaps the following scripture had duality of purpose and was also prophetic in nature, when God was speaking to Cain and said, “If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door.” Genesis 4:7a.) KJV.)
Last but certainly not least, are the words “wise” and “foolish”.
The Greek word “φρόνιμος”, transliterated as “phronimos”, (Strong’s 5429) was translated into English as the word “wise”. The definition of phronimos is as follows, “intelligent, wise, prudent. ie; mindful of ones interests.”
Its word origin is derived form the Greek “φρήν”, transliterated as “phrēn”, (Strong’s 5424), and its definition is, “1) the midriff or diaphragm, “the parts of the heart”. 2) the mind. a) the faculty of perceiving and judging.” Or in other words the word wise itself, could be explained in this way, by utilizing the provided definitions, and in maintaining the context in which it is being used, “for one to make a conscious choice based upon the true desire of their heart, and through their knowledge regarding the truth of Yeshua as their Savior.”
The English word “foolish” was derived from the Greek “μωρός”, transliterated as “mōros”, (Strong’s 3474) and its definitions are as follows, “1) foolish, 2) impious, godless.” It is suspected that “mōros” is derived from the Greek “μυστήριον”, transliterated as “mystērion”, (Strong’s 3466) where the definitions are quite in depth, and consist of the following, “1) a hidden thing, secret, mystery. a) generally mysteries, religious secrets, confided only to the initiated and not to ordinary mortals. b) a hidden or secret thing, not obvious to the understanding. a hidden purpose or counsel. 2) secret will, a) of men, b) of God: the secret counsels which govern God in dealing with the righteous, which are hidden from ungodly and wicked men but plain to the godly.”
The first time that this particular word, “mystērion” is used within the New Testament, is when Yeshua answered His disciples question by saying in Matthew 13:11., “Because it is given unto you to “know” the “mysteries” of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.”
Above I have also placed the word “know” within quotations, (for as students of the Word, we understand that everything that is contained within scripture, is intimately interconnected). The English word “know” in this instance, must be understood, for it is relevant to the process of understanding “the mysteries” within the context of the narrative. The word “know” was translated from the Greek “γινώσκω”, transliterated as “ginōskō”, (Strong’s 1097 ) and it definitions are, “1) to learn to know, come to know, get a knowledge of perceive, feel. a) to become known. 2) to know, understand, perceive, have knowledge of. a) to understand. b) to know.”
Therefore in utilizing this information, “foolish” itself could perhaps be defined as being in the state of indifference. Since knowledge is only provided by the Spirit of truth, they unfortunately have a lack of sincere desire to participate within that relationship, and are therefore, ignorant and not fully aware of the significance of gift that they have been blessed with. Consequently then, neither do they possess the knowledge of the mysteries, or the possible consequences of their choice.
Perhaps this is what Yeshua was referring to when He said the following in Luke 19:25-27.;
26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given ; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.
Be Blessed in Yeshua HaMashiach our Most Holy and Precious Savior. Amen.
You know, the parable of the virgins sounds like it is describing an un-rapture.
The foolish virgins believed Jesus would be there so soon that there was no need to take along extra oil. But the groom tarried – in other words he didn’t show up as soon as the foolish virgins thought he would. In other words they were unprepared for the tribulation and the protection promised the true church during that time.
Guess it can work both ways.
So when do you expect the rapture to occur? Are we as close as Jan expects (tomorrow)?
Just wondering…
Since the Church is the Bride, the above study is awesome & profitable. It makes one feel astoundingly privileged to be a part of the Bride. And mercy!……what a knowlege you have of this subject! You are very kind to share all of this.
Thanks Jan,
Everything that I try to do is to somehow edify the Assembly, or church.
Though your comments are appreciated, if just one of our brothers or sisters reads the above and becomes less foolish because of it, then it has served its purpose.
To all be Blessed in Yeshua our Most Holy and Precious Savior.
Amen.
Jan,
Also notice how this parable above is spoken during the same discussion that Yeshua is having in answering the questions posed by Peter, James, John and Andrew.
Yeshua repeats Himself is a very short period of time within this discussion.
In Matthew 24:36., He says, “But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.”
And then only a few minutes later in Matthew 25:13., He says, “Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.”
This can mean only one of two possibilities;
1) This event that is occurring is happening just prior to Yeshua establishing His Millennial Kingdom, and those that are not allowed to enter, are being not allowed into the new Millennial Temple.
Or,
2) It is describing an event that is occurring, if not before the tribulation, at least before the wrath.
In Luke 21:28., Yeshua says after answering a portion of the disciple’s question;
“And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.”
The English word “begin” is derived from the Greek “ἄρχομαι” transliterated as “archomai” (Strong’s 756). It is a verb that simply means to “begin, make a beginning”.
The English word “redemption” is derived from the Greek “ἀπολύτρωσις” transliterated as “apolytrōsis” (Strong’s 629). It is a feminine noun and is defined as “1) a releasing effected by payment of ransom. a) redemption, deliverance. b) liberation procured by the payment of a ransom.”
And the English words “draweth nigh” are derived from the Greek “ἐγγίζω” transliterated as “eggizō” (Strong’s 1448). It is also a verb and is defined as “1) to bring near, to join one thing to another. 2) to draw or come near to, to approach.”
Couple the above with that of Luke 21:36., “Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.” and it makes no sense whatsoever to consider this event to be happening at the end of the tribulation or wrath just prior to Yeshua establishing the Millennial Kingdom. Rather, it must be happening sometime beforehand, when He comes as “a thief in the night”.
Be Blessed in Yeshua HaMashiach our Most Holy and Precious Savior. Amen.
Accepted,
Isaiah 26!
Could it be that the 10th song, which no one knows and has yet to be sung, is the hymn sung by the “144,000” (wise virgins) when the Lord returns for His bride? Yes.
Wow, “in that day” is the theme of this chapter and it reads like a poetic Revelation. Isaiah 26-28 applies to “in that day”, which is only a few months away.
Consider verse Isaiah 26:20-21 as it also gives insight to Matthew 25:10-11.
“Enter your chambers (wise virgins) and shut the doors behind you, hide yourself (as with the first Passover under the blood of a lamb that night) as it were for a little moment, until the indignation is past. For behold, ‘the Lord comes out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for ‘their iniquity’…”
As for the “cry” heard in the middle of the night.
First, it is a cry not a trumpet or a shout (as in rapture at that moment).
Second, the timing is in the middle of “darkness” not the beginning. Think mid-Trib, 3.5 years into the 7 years of Daniel, after the 3rd seal/before the 4th when “he” is revealed after winter but before Sabbath.
Third, the foolish ask the wise as both remain standing in place (no body is taken away yet, but both are in the house (Isaiah 26:20-21).
The foolish leave to find vessels with oil (Proverbs 23:23, which is the Kingdom as in the Pearl and Treasure) and return to a closed door. The Lord does not know those foolish at the time when the door shuts (at the end of the tribulation (Matthew 24:29), “then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the heavens….”(verses 30-31).
As for the door—-
This is the door to the house of the 10 virgins (well, now the 5 wise) – please read the Philly church (Rev 3:7-13).
The Philly church are the “wise virgins”.
Philly gave a “pure heart”, know the value of the Kingdom (treasure in the field, Pearl, and a vessel filled with Holy Spirit).
The virgins/Philly are sealed by the Blood and not “raptured” but are the 144,000.
These are the ones that sing the 10th song that no one else knows – something like “Victory in Jesus, my Savior forever.”
Your post is a blessing, refreshment to this blog.
Blessed be His name.
“Behold, I am coming as a thief (as a thief to those not prepared, 1 Thess 5:4-9). Blessed is he who watches and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked (like a foolish virgin) and they see his shame” (Rev 16:15).
“But you aren’t in the dark about these things, dear brothers and sisters, and you won’t be surprised when the day of the Lord comes like a thief. For you are all children of the light and of the day; we don’t belong to darkness and night. So be on your guard, not asleep like the others. Stay alert and be clearheaded. Night is the time when people sleep and drinkers get drunk. But let us who live in the light be clearheaded, protected by the armor of faith and love, and wearing as our helmet the confidence of our salvation” ( 1 Thess 5:4-9).
He who overcomes (by the Blood of the Lamb and the words of their testimony), shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son” (Rev 21:7).
“…and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age” (Matthew 28:20).
maybe, next passover, 2013, the saints should consider going inside their homes, shutting the door and hiding…
Stay in the house in spiritual meaning – yes. Worship in spirit and truth. Something that is missing in most fellowship.
We put on the armor of Light and the Armor of God, apply the Blood of the Lamb (spiritual) and fellowship with like-minded wise virgins.
Consider these verses:
“For if we died with Him, we shall also live with Him (the dead in Christ shall rise first).
If we endure, we shall also reign with Him (1000 year reign).
If we deny Him (mark of beast), He will also deny us.
If we are faithless, He remains faithful (the Lord knows who are His sheep): He can not deny Himself” (2 Tim 2:11-13).
More later…time for work.
Blessings
Psalms 27, 28, 29.
The following verses:
Isaiah 26-28 applies to “in that day”, which is only a few months away.
Consider verse Isaiah 26:20-21 as it also gives insight to Matthew 25:10-11.
“Enter your chambers (wise virgins) and shut the doors behind you, hide yourself (as with the first Passover under the blood of a lamb that night) as it were for a little moment, until the indignation is past. For behold, ‘the Lord comes out of His place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for ‘their iniquity’…”
As I’ve been saying all along, there will not be a rapture, but protection – just as the Israelites had to go thru the plagues of Egypt along with everyone else, but they received divine protection, the true church (Those that keep the commandments and have the testimony of Jesus Christ) will be protected in the last 3-1/2 years.
So a rapture is not called for or necessary or even biblical. No human will see heaven, only the Kingdom of God here on earth. In fact Isaiah speaks to this fact somewhere but I can’t remember the chapter and verse (its a long book).
Sorry, Jan.
🙂
time to enter our chambers and hide might be as early as this winter
You have conveniently glossed over Mat 24: 29-31:
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
So everything past this point is clearly AFTER the tribulation of those days, after Jesus has returned in great glory, NOT a secret rapture sometime before the tribulation.
And by simple logic Mat 25 happens after Mat 24, so when Jesus talks about the Son of Man coming, He is clearly still referring to his second coming, not a previous event.
If there was to be a rapture followed by the tribulation followed by the Second Coming, Jesus would have stated it so clearly there could be no doubt. He would have put the events in the proper order and made it clear that they were different and sequential.
But He didn’t. And your reasoning is illogical. You make up assumptions that simply don’t fit the rules of logic. (Yes, there are rules. I’ve taken several college courses in it so I can tell you with certainty your logic sucks).
As I have stated I once was a believer in the rapture until I studied it further. I was able to see thru the false logic of the proponents of the theory. But many people, especially those who really want to be raptured, are able to convince themselves that the theory actually makes sense.
Sorry, I can’t help those people but if I can convince even a few people to think again about it, then maybe they won’t be freaked out when nothing happens. Better to be prepared for the tribulation than to be surprised by it.
Nothing says that you must believe in the rapture in order to be raptured. It takes more knowledge and preparation to get thru the tribulation than to just be whisked away to heaven. My philosophy, in any case, is much safer than yours.
Bless.
If this is referring to the Second Coming why would Yeshua ever refer to Himself as a thief?
Matthew 24:43., Luke 12:39., Revelation 3:3., and 16:15.
Or the Apostles refer to Him as the same?
Paul in 1 Thessalonians 5:2. Or Peter in 2 Peter 3:10.
Thieves steal things of value, something treasured.
When Yeshua comes to conquer sin, have judgment on the “sons of disobedience” and establish His Millennial Kingdom, He won’t have to steal anything. All things are His. And why would He have to take anything anywhere at that time? If all faithful and true believers that abide in Him and walk in the Spirit are here at His Second Coming, the what sense do verses like the following make?
Yeshua Himself said, “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”
John 3:36.
“For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;” Romans 1:18.
“For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to [execute] wrath upon him that doeth evil.” Romans 13:4.
“Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.” Ephesians 5:6.
Hence because wrath is not for the true believers, “Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.” Romans 5:9.
And….
“And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, [even] Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.” 1 Thessalonians 1:10.
And….
“For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,” 1 Thessalonians 5:9.
The Wrath of God on the “children of disobedience” occurs at the end of the Tribulation. If you believe that all will somehow remain here during this period of time, then the above verses make no logical sense whatsoever?
Do your own word study on the three verses above, find out what the definitions for “saved, delivered, and salvation” are.
Be Blessed in Yeshua our Most Holy and Precious Savior. Amen.
A,
First of all Jesus is not describing Himself as a thief, only that His Second Coming might be likened to that of a thief sneaking into your home when you don’t expect it. He is describing and action, not His own character.
This is a classic example of false logic as I mentioned. You are twisting the meaning to prove a point.
And Jesus goes on to tell His followers that they need to be vigilant so that they WILL know when He is about to return – even to the day (but not the day AND the hour).
We will all know the day once the tribulation has begun. When the 2 witnesses appear there will be 3-1/2 years before they are killed and then on that same day Christ will return – on the feast of Trumpets – the day He must fulfill with His Second Coming. So if you think Jesus is trying to say that nobody on the planet will ever realize when He is coming then you simply don’t understaND THE SCRIPTURES.
AS FOR THE RAPTURE BEING A DAY THAT NO-ONE WILL KNOW, YOU ARE RIGHT, SIMPLY BECAUSE IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN. No rapture verse can stand up to close scrutiny unless you apply faulty logic and misinterpretation.
As for the other verses, I have already done a logical word study on them and there is no reason to believe they mean anything other than that the true church will be protected thru the tribulation, not removed from the planet during the tribulation. God has never done such a thing in the past and He has no reason to change his modus operandi now.
Read my post below about what Jesus said about anyone going to heaven. No one has ever ascended there and no-one ever will.
The dead sleep until the resurrection. They need not be raptured. To do so is illogical. The resurrection and the catching up happen together – at the Second Coming. NO RAPTURE!
Sad, but true.
James,
This is a brief response to your post of August 24th. 4:28 am.
In respects to the topic of “No One” going to heaven when they die, (or ever as you say, claiming that heaven is only the domain of God the Father), where did Moses and Elijah appear from when they materialized with Yeshua on the Mountain, (Matthew 17. Mark 9. Luke 9.)?
Did they just appear from shĕ’owl having no previous level of consciousness and say to Yeshua, “Hi….. Um Who are You?” and then proceed to introduce themselves?
Or do you think that it was far more likely that they appeared with a complete understanding as to why they were there.
Chances are that Moses and Elijah are probably 2 of the 24 Elders that are mentioned within the Book of Revelation, where in Rev. 5:9., (before the Seals ever get opened) Yeshua is praised by those 24 Elders in a new song and saying, “Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;”
The “us” above being derived from the Greek “ἡμᾶς”, transliterated as “hēmas” (Strong’s 2248), defined as “us, we, our etc.”. It is a pronoun and an accusative plural of the transliterated “egō” defined as “I, me, my etc.” and within the context above is referring to the “24 redeemed Elders”.
So where are these now redeemed men? Are they in shĕ’owl or heaven?
So clearly these 24 Elders, (who were once men and who are now redeemed by the blood of Yeshua), are before the throne of God the Father. Having been redeemed by His blood, it would therefore be reasonable to conclude that this occurred “post crucifixion”.
Would not the above then contradict what you say regarding that “No One ascends to heaven when they die and that No One will ever be in heaven because it is only God the Fathers domain?
To all be Blessed in Yeshua’s Holy Blood by which He paid the price for our sins. Amen.
It would seem then, that the thief arrival is not the same as the final appearance at the second coming, when he announces his arrival.
James,…..”no rapture?……..no human will ever see Heaven…..?.”…… now I see that you are a part of another denomination. I didn’t know that. It’s all right, though. You seem to value the work of the Cross and that’s the main thing and the Lord loves you anyway. Nobody’s perfect. I see why my letter upset you so.
Here is what Jesus had to say about heaven:
John 3:13
“And no one hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended out of heaven, even the Son of man, who is in heaven.”
Pretty clear. Ask any Jew if the righteous go to heaven and they will tell you NO, they sleep in the grave until the messiah comes to resurrect them.
That was true before Christ, during His teaching and after His ascension. Nowhere does Jesus describe a change in the plan of salvation. Nowhere does He tell His disciples that now the dead are judged as soon as they die and go either directly to heaven or to this new place called “hell” where they burn forever. All of this was made up by the Catholic church who then reverse-engineered it into the bible including using the word hell for the word grave over 30 times. Unfortunately most people are brought up with these false concepts and just can’t get rid of them. It is so ingrained into their psyche they just don’t want to let it go and discover the truth.
Too bad. These people who have already died will be shocked when they are (maybe) resurrected at the Second Coming and find themselves still on earth meeting Jesus in the air, but not in heaven. Many will be relieved that their is no real hell. Better to die in the lake of fire than burn in agony for a kajillion years to pay for a short lifetime as a disobedient human. God can not be that cruel. Satan wants you to think He is, but He is not.
Trust me.
Sure we can trust you….. or read the Word and see what the Holy Spirit inspired the writers to say, like the following;
“Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?” Romans 9:21-25. KJV.
Here is the bible commentary on the verses you quoted above:
Commentary on Romans 9:14-24
Whatever God does, must be just. Wherein the holy, happy people of God differ from others, God’s grace alone makes them differ. In this preventing, effectual, distinguishing grace, he acts as a benefactor, whose grace is his own. None have deserved it; so that those who are saved, must thank God only; and those who perish, must blame themselves only, God is bound no further than he has been pleased to bind himself by his own covenant and promise, which is his revealed will. And this is, that he will receive, and not cast out, those that come to Christ; but the drawing of souls in order to that coming, is an anticipating, distinguishing favour to whom he will. Why does he yet find fault? This is not an objection to be made by the creature against his Creator, by man against God. The truth, as it is in Jesus, abases man as nothing, as less than nothing, and advances God as sovereign Lord of all. Who art thou that art so foolish, so feeble, so unable to judge the Divine counsels? It becomes us to submit to him, not to reply against him. Would not men allow the infinite God the same sovereign right to manage the affairs of the creation, as the potter exercises in disposing of his clay, when of the same lump he makes one vessel to a more honourable, and one to a meaner use? God could do no wrong, however it might appear to men. God will make it appear that he hates sin. Also, he formed vessels filled with mercy. Sanctification is the preparation of the soul for glory. This is God’s work. Sinners fit themselves for hell, but it is God who prepares saints for heaven; and all whom God designs for heaven hereafter, he fits for heaven now. Would we know who these vessels of mercy are? Those whom God has called; and these not of the Jews only, but of the Gentiles. Surely there can be no unrighteousness in any of these Divine dispensations. Nor in God’s exercising long-suffering, patience, and forbearance towards sinners under increasing guilt, before he brings utter destruction upon them. The fault is in the hardened sinner himself. As to all who love and fear God, however such truths appear beyond their reason to fathom, yet they should keep silence before him. It is the Lord alone who made us to differ; we should adore his pardoning mercy and new-creating grace, and give diligence to make our calling and election sure.
Commentary on Romans 9:25-29
The rejecting of the Jews, and the taking in the Gentiles, were foretold in the Old Testament. It tends very much to the clearing of a truth, to observe how the Scripture is fulfilled in it. It is a wonder of Divine power and mercy that there are any saved: for even those left to be a seed, if God had dealt with them according to their sins, had perished with the rest. This great truth this Scripture teaches us. Even among the vast number of professing Christians it is to be feared that only a remnant will be saved.
In all of this I read no hint of a rapture. As the last line concludes, only a remnant will be saved. This matches with the remnant of the true church mentioned at the end of Rev12. This is the remnant that will be protected during the tribulation. The vast majority of Christians will end up following the beast and will not receive protection. This is proved by your verses above. The entire church will not only NOT be raptured, only a small fraction of it will enter the millennium unscathed by the mark of the beast.
I have been making this point on other blog topics for years so thanks for the confirmation with ROM 9.
Funny how that happens…
How about the New Jerusalem? Do we even get to hang out THERE? Jesus said, “I go to prepare a place for you so that where I am, there you may be also.” Also, why would He talk about the walls of jasper, doors of pearl,(biggest pearl ever found was 14 lbs!), streets of gold, its measurements………….just to make us drool? As per human nature, He knows we would love that. He would never talk about Heaven if we are to never have anything to do with it. Everything we could ever want or hope for we GET! He created humans to want the best of everything (called selfishness & covetousnes now in our fallen state; but in perfection it will all be realized and appreciated in purity and holiness unto the Lord). The angels don’t have the privilege of relishing their salvation as Jesus did not die for them; so God didn’t describe Heaven for the angels but for US, because it is OUR future home and we are ‘co-inheritors’ along with Jesus (aren’t we King’s kids?) Also, the New Jerusalem comes down OUT of Heaven…..perhaps another glorious dimension, but still a real place that we will be able to see with our NEW eyes. Perfection cannot be difined by us yet, because we are still in our fallen state and only the Bible gives us a slight glimpse of Heaven…..the description of which is beyond what mere words can describe. This is what I imagine may be the case: Those who are still alive after the trib will continue to repopulate the earth (people will live to 1000 again/still die/Isaiah ……but saved,; and those with their new bodies (the raptured ones before the trib) will somehow reside above earth in the New Jerusaalem, able to come and go from earth. After the 1000-yr Millennium, God will make a New Heaven and a New Earth (Gk means new in ‘quality’…..adjusted atomic structure’ since now atoms are ready to ignite but kept from such by God’s power)……and I have no idea what that will be in case you think I’ve ‘figured out everything.’ I’m just as dumb as the next guy!…..but, I sure want to ‘walk them there streets of gold!’
sounds wonderful, however it happens. 🙂
Here is the deal with new Jerusalem:
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God [is] with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, [and be] their God.
O.K., John is on earth and he sees the new city coming down FROM heaven TO the earth where all the people are. The righteous will dwell in it and perhaps it will be able to take off and fly around the galaxy like a Borg ship. But I doubt that heaven will be on the itinerary, that is God’s domain and only His.
Your concept of the millennium is close to mine except you think the resurrected/saved are sitting in their mansions in heaven watching HBO or the food channel while life goes on below on earth.
Check this:
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This [is] the first resurrection.
(This is after Christ has returned to reign – the resurrection promised the Jews and Christians that have died and were sleeping in Christ are raised. This is at his Second Coming, not earlier).
Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Those who are worthy (the true “remnant” church) now have spirit bodies but they remain on earth to teach the survivors of the tribulation about the gospel and Jesus Christ. The prophets of the Old Testament and the disciples of the New Testament will be given government roles and the saved will work under their tutelage.
But this remnant will be a small band of the true church. It will not include commandment breakers such as Sunday worshippers or those who celebrate pagan holidays as if they were the lord’s such as Christmas and Easter. These people will be part of the second resurrection where they too will be instructed on the true gospel and given a chance at eternal life, or judged for their works and given a place in God’s government based on their willingness to keep the law.:
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and the grave delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
So with 99% of today’s Christians being apostate (Sunday worshippers and lovers of Christmas etc., I’m not counting on a big turnout at the Second Coming. They will have to sleep 1000 years and then see what happens. Good thing there is no hell or purgatory or else, OUCH!
And please don’t try to equate the word “quality” with atomic structure. The elements are what they are, God isn’t going to make any new ones – there’s nothing missing on the periodic table. He will clean up the atomic waste from WW3 to make the earth livable again but He ain’t gonna mess with the laws of physics or chemistry. Remember there will still be billions of humans living thru the millennium and if you go messing with atomic structures everything would die. God has already created an entire universe. He doesn’t need to start all over again from scratch.
So forget the pole shift and the 360 day year. They are not necessary and would only cause chaos and destruction. Doesn’t sound very God-like to me, but pipe dream if you like – no harm in that.
Bless.
Just a little Hebrew insight into the phrase “Thief in the night”. First off, Yahshua coming as a thief in the night is not so much referring to Him. It is more directly referring to the one who is unready to meet Him. In other words, that is how it will play out on the day Messiah returns, and those who are caught sleeping (not doing what they were commanded to do) will suffer great loss and be ashamed. Yahshua was basically telling a Hebrew idiom to get his point across.
Loosely, this is how the idiom goes; There were always priest on watch in the Temple to make sure the fire on the altar didn’t go out, to ensure the evening sacrifice was completely consumed. It was customary for the high priest to come to the temple in the third watch (between 3 am and dawn). If the fire was out the high priest would rekindle the fire and then take some hot coals in a fire pan and go looking for the sleeping priest. When he would find the priest he would lay the coals along the hem of the garment he was wearing (the worn out garments the priest wore were used as wicks once they were worn out, so their garments were highly flamable). At that point, the priest had no option but to quickly remove his garment and run home naked and ashamed. Kind of sounds like an unwise virgin, don’t you think?
James,
I’ve heard that “thief in the night” interpretation. It came from someone who understands/comprehends the meaning from a Hebrew perspective (OT) – Mark Blitz.
This is an excellent study on God’s Appointment times.
His presentation may “in-Lighten” those who watch.
http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?v=-eucVQtdvQQ
Blessings
Psalms 1, Amplified Bible
More spec & AMAZING, indeed!!!…….Mercy!……can’t stop NOW! Hope you are not discouraged, because I’m surely NOT. Note the folly…….I’m mean the FOLLOWING seeming scenario absolutes:
SUNDAY is the commanded day a COUNT can begin; and concerning the start of Temple Desecration, the first SUNDAY after Passover, 2013 is Nisan 20, Mar 31, the Dan 8 third Temple Worship Begins/not necessarily the 1st blood sacrifice, but the 2300-day COUNT for it begins. Mar 31, 2013 (7th day Passover) plus exactly 2300 is Thur, July 18, 2019, the Return. Once Jesus’ foot touches down on the Mt Olives, desecration of the Temple is over. The Jews are certainly NOT going to CONTINUE blood sacrifices once the Messiah returns! (…… & Millen 4th Temple activity is another subject). That day, Mar 31, 2013 (count start of Temple Worship) is 7 mths (bury bodies/bldg 3rd Temple) past Aug 31-Sept 5+ or therabouts depending on the 7-‘mth’ span (Ezek 38-39). Thus the Rapture will be followed by a week or so of world chaos along w/ the N. Invasion of Israel (with the Divine Victory in Israel’s mts occurring during that week).
Any Tammuz 15 plus 75 days is Rosh Hashana (Tishrei 1) on the perfect, 360-day calendar. Well, the Return is Tammuz 15, 2019 (Thur, July 18); and as the earth straightens, the days will take on their perfect, 360-day system; thus Tammuz 15 plus 30 days mourning (on the perfect calendar) will be AV 15, the day of great joy (procession into Jerusalem w/ Remnant/Isa 63). Know that a gestation period of 280 days needs another 75 days to equal a Jewish year of 355 days (shana/yr + 355 in Hebrew # letter value). If the -23 is NOT considered, then the AV 15 day is Tammuz 22 (which holds no noticeable calendar signif)…..but the day will probably be seen AS AV 15 anyway since tu b’Av holds GREAT Jewish historical significance. The 75 needed to complete a Jewish 355-day yr becomes 52 days on both sides of the trib. On OUR side, the 75 is not complete/only 52 past Tam 15; and on the other side the 75 is diminished to 52 days (75 minus 23/’days cut short’) due to the straightening of the earth (Isa 13:13;24:1,19,20).
Now, why Tammuz 15?……because Rosh Hashana, 2018 (end of Pyramid timeline from Rosh 2011) plus exactly 280 days spiritual gestation is Tammuz 15, the day the Jews call Jesus back because their 280-day spiritual gestation will be complete. Rosh Hashana has always been known as the solemn ‘repentance/judg day’…..on thru the following 9 days of Awe up to Yom Kippur (in HOPES of forgiveness).
How about OUR spiritual gestation of 280 days?…….well, Rosh 2011 plus exactly 280 days is Tammuz 15 on THIS side of the trib, but plus 52 more days are needed (in grace) to reach the Rapture date (SUN, Aug 26/Elul 8).
Remember how I told you that the 75 minus the 23-day tilt loss is 52 days (“days cut short”); and at the Return the additional 75 days (30 mourning/45 judg Nations) will be ‘cut short’ to just 52 days, ending at ELUL 8 as well, same day as the Rapture, 2012.
As for the 6-mth addition to Rosh, 2011 (as per Grant Jeffrey’s book, pg 61) to NISAN 1 (the official New Yr/Ezek 45:18/Noah’s “beginning of days”, etc), that day ended at NISAN 1 (Mar 24), 2012 plus ANOTHER 5 MTHS (as Noah’s delay in the ark til land was dry/livable) is the day that the trib starts (the first 1260/Signing), Thurs, Aug 23, 2012. Three days later on SUNDAY (when the COUNT can begin) the trib start will be realized on Aug 26, Elul 8, 2012.
Also, if one prematurely projects the 23-day tilt loss NOW, note that Aug 26 (Sunday) minus exactly 23 days is AV 15 on THIS side of the trib. AV is also the month that Kaduri spoke of as ‘Messiah’s arrival’ IF that fact deserves attention.
The mid trib is still perfect in its original 8th day of 8th Feast (concep of Jesus/Tev 1) because the ‘Signing’ at Aug 23, 2012 pus exactly 1260 days (a.c. ‘keeps’ covenant w/ Israel) is Thur, Feb 4, 2016 (& Aquarius 1, if applicable). Now subtracted the projected loss of the the 23 days from Feb 4 to arrive back to JAN 13, 2016, which in actuality is the date 13 days earlier (calendar discrepancy) of Dec 31, 2015, the 8th day (orig Tev 1) of the Kislev 24 Creation date (which was also Dec. 24 when the calendars were synchronized at Creation).
The a.c. satanically ‘rises’ on quite a signif day of the Mazzarot……not only in the satanically-promissed ‘AGE of AQUARIUS,’ but on the 18th day thereof (666)….NOT GOOD……if applicable.
Earth enters each of the 12 Mazzarot signs on the 21st-23rd of each month, but will enter each sign on the 1st of each month once the earth is straight and all is in sync with both calendars and the Mazzarot = 360 days each.
The presumed signing on Thur, Aug 23 is VIRGO 1 (start of the first 1260 and the start of the full 2520 to the Return/also start of the entire Mazzarot cycle), and realized three days later by the Rapture as the beginning of the entire trib. Aug 23 (Signing) minus 22 days/future tilt loss is AUG 1 (the VIRGO 1 in the Millen/perfect calendar). The NISAN 1, 2012 date of Mar 24, 2012 (commanded “beginning of days”/same as Nisan 17/Noah) minus the projected -23 days is MARCH 1, the ARIES 1 in the Millen/perfect calendar). Thus those 5 mths span ARIES 1 to VIRGO 1. Note that start of each Mazzarot sign varies from the 21st of the mth to the 23rd of the month.
If the 23-day tilt loss would not occur at the Return, then the 75 days past the Return date would reach Tishrei 1-2, 2019, Rosh Hashana, which I think CANNOT happen; because the entire timeline should be Rosh 2011 to Rosh 2018……NOT extending to or ending at Rosh 2019. Also, the 280 days from Rosh 2018, ending at Tammuz 15 is just too significant to consider Rosh 2019 in the picture at all. That’s why there will only be 52 days after the Return (the 75 MINUS the 23-day loss = 52).
There are 52 days on THIS side of the trib (Tammuz 15 to the Rapture, Sun, Aug 26, ELUL 8) and 52 days on the post-Return side of the trib (Return to Elul 8, end of trib). Our +52 is in GRACE, and the post-Return 52 is in JUDGMENT.
The presumed SIGNING is VIRGO 1 and the end of the trib is LIBRA 8. The difference between those two Mazzarot dates is 37 days, the same difference between 2557 days (7 solar yrs) and 2520 (7 perf/Millen yrs). #37 is the number that warrants research (Bonnie Gaunt’s book).
So now the whole trib scenario includes these awesome spans:
Av 15 to Av 15
Tam 15 to Tam 15
280 this side, 280 other side
Elul 8 (Rapture) to Elul 8 (end trib)
Rosh 2011 to Rosh 2018
Rosh yr 5772 – 5779 (as 5779 ” ht Pyramid/5779 degrees K temp sun).
And SUNDAYS are now all across the board INCLUDING the FIRST SUNDAY after PASSOVER (Mar 31, 2013) when the COUNT was commanded by God to begin. In other words, these are the SUNDAYS from Rapture & onward:
RAPTURE
TEMPLE WORSHIP begins (2300 days)
MID-TRIB when a.c. satanically ‘rises’
So our Rapture Day is STILL Rosh Hashana 2011 (5th Feast=next to be fulfilled) PLUS the 6 mths to Nisan 1 (commanded “beginning of days”/Noah), then plus the 5 mths delay to Signing/Rapture (as Noah in Ark) til released.
Another point of interest is that at the Return (a Thurs), minus 23 days brings the day back to a TUESDAY, a 3rd Day as per Hosea 6:2-3, if appicable.
Sure looks good and I am SO glad that everything still fits. Hope you haven’t given up. Give up when I give up; i.e. when you no longer receive e-mails from me. Then after that, YOU are supposed to clue ME in, cause I’ll be down, way down!…….deal??..J.H.
Hey, I thought the rapture was supposed to be today. I moved a BBQ up to yesterday just in case. The day isn’t even over and now you’ve moved it to I don’t know when (you didn’t state the exact day clearly this time). In fact you have never stated anything clearly, just events and numbers in a never-ending stream with no apparent rhyme Old Testament reason.
Anyway, whatever day you’ve picked let me state unequivocally, IT AIN’T GONNA HAPPEN!
There.
🙂
Jan,
Passover runs from the evening of Monday, March 25th. to Tuesday evening April 2nd. 2013, so wouldn’t the first Sabbath fall on our April 6th?
With your attitude (….normal sinful nature perhaps), how do you keep friends…BBQ, etc? Do they know the extreme critique talent that you have OR are you an AMAZING actor! NONE of my material was clear? I taught kindergarten for 3 years, so perhaps I can help you.
I’ve shared so much with this site that I feel I must take the subject as far as it can go…….til I run out of ideas; and there’s no harm in that. I don’t blast others when they give their funny end-time ideas; instead I glean whatever is useful and ignore the rest. After all, it’s an end-times chat site (& a good one at that!). Everybody is SO different in his approach to the last days; and all of my former letters happen to be MY ideas. Could it be that my material ‘affects’ you????
Now, plan something else for this weekend……. the old cake from the freezer (?) along with a vibrant trib conversation in all its horror.
if you are talking to james, he is that way with everyone.
Well Jan, as I have said, your calculations are nothing more than a series of events or measurements, like the tilt of the earth’s axis and the height of the pyramid with assigned numbers that you either add or subtract depending on how you feel, or how you want to manipulate the dates, but there is no proof of the significance of these numbers or if you are using them properly. All we have is your assurance that they are meaningful, amazing and correct.
Only none of it has been correct, has it? And it never will be. Regardless of the rapture you are using the story line from a book/movie as the basis for your calculations. The 7th week of Daniel has already been fulfilled. There is no 7 year tribulation. The antichrist does not exist and he will never sign a peace plan with Israel. This is false prophecy and you are using it as the basis for your calculations. Plus the whole UFO thing is just silly. God is not flying around in an alien ship and He did not crash in Roswell New Mexico either. Forget the whole UFO idea and start looking for a better sign.
Now I don’t believe in the “left behind” story line, but isn’t the antichrist supposed to take over the New World Order right after he signs the peace pact? So where is the New World Order and where is this great leader who is supposed to mesmerize the whole world into letting him lead them? There is nothing like that now, nor will there ever be. You have nothing but one lousy UFO sighting and the rest is simply conjecture. There are seals to open and trumpets and vials. ⅔ of the population of the earth is going to die. These will be the signs. I didn’t see the UFO, did you? Are you even sure it was real? Are all UFO sightings from God? What are we supposed to believe?
Sorry, but I come from a science/engineering background and I can read a schematic and understand technical manuals. I sell complicated computer programs to sports fans and have built TV’s and computers from parts. So I find your silly strings of biblical babbling completely lacking in believability on many levels. You are only providing false hope for lost souls who are counting on a free ride to heaven any time now, so why continue with our daily lives since they will be ending (as we know them) in such a short time?
Which is my point about the cake and BBQ etc., because if I believed you, life as I’m living it would be unnecessary. No point in making that next lasagna (now we‘re talkin’) if I won’t be around to finish it all. Know what I mean?
So as long as you continue to make these silly predictions I will continue to make fun at them. We are both entitled to that, so no hard feelings. I am certain that in time you will come to realize the folly of your ideas and come over to my side. Then we can fight for Christ, side by side, throughout the tribulation, perhaps with our other brothers and sisters on this site and do honor to God knowing if we die we will wake up in an instant to meet Him in the air at His one and only Second Coming! Glory to God! I can’t wait., bring it on Satan, I am ready!
But for now, all of you may sit back feeling safe and hoping Jesus will invite you to His house for the tribulation. I have waited ten years to see those Mayan calendar YouTube idiots fall flat on their faces this December, I can wait out the rapturists as well.
So you enjoy your endless calculations and I will enjoy my cake.
Think I’ll have some now…
Bless, everyone.
P.S. Marianne is right!
james
there have been many, many UFO sightings.
The NWO already exists and has been controlling world events for quite a while now behind the scenes.
it is now tearing down america, and will take over soon.
I do not follow jan’s math, but I do admire her enthusiasm.
There is no proof that UFO’s are signs from God.
Until I see such proof I will consider them satanic – sent to confuse humans and to make them think there are other beings perhaps not in the image of God, who maybe have their own God who may be more powerful than our God. And perhaps they have the power to alter prophecy, and they will be the ones to take over and rule the earth. After all, many people believe this already.
If the New World Order already exists, where is its charter and who heads it? All I’ve ever heard were rumors and secret plans mostly from the same YouTube idiots that are predicting Nibiru.
I am watching the political campaigns and I have never heard mention of a candidate suggesting that he will support the New World Order or that he will align America with such a group. Everyone talks about the New World Order but nobody has ever seen it. If they are only days or months away from taking over the world, where the hell are they? What weapons do they have that can defeat the combined forces of the US and every other military on earth? We don’t want to be taken over, nor does China, Pakistan GB or any other nuclear power. So just how the New World Order accomplish this?
Magic, of course! If the bible, (or more properly the Left Behind authors (Jack Van Impe et al, says it will happen, then it must happen, regardless of the impossibility of it all.
Note that in the movie, the New World Order and the antichrist have already come to power when the film opens, but we never see how it happened. That’s because the author (who admits he made most of it up as part of the story line), could not for the life of him imagine how such a thing might actually take place.
There is nothing in the bible about a New World Order – a kingdom that rules the entire planet. One line – “The whole world will marvel after the beast” has been interpreted as a sign of a New World Order. That is a big stretch of the imagination and while it worked for the book, it is not correct interpretation. The beast is the Vatican and all the Christians in the end times will follow their false doctrines, including Sunday worship. Except for the remnant – the true church (Philadelphia). The beast is not a New World Order, just a world religion. Once you see that the whole New World Order idea falls to the wayside.
Read a novel and take it as gospel truth if you want, but if you’re waiting for the antichrist, a New World Order and a One-World religion you are in for a long wait.
google Bilderberg and Bohemian grove.
yes they are in power already.
I just said UFOs have been spotted.
I did not say they were from God.
for you , james
http://www.shalombewithyou.com/educational-videos/new-world-order-secret-societies-and-biblical-prophecies/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ShalomBeWithYou+%28Shalom+Be+With+You%29&utm_content=FaceBook
Marianne,
These sites do nothing to prove that the left behind scenario is about to unfold. Most people, if you ask them about end time prophecy, will tell you the plot to the movie, so naturally there are lots of sites who try to connect the plot to actual groups. And usually they have a multitude of culprits who could be the ones to take over. In my opinion, if one group were to make a big move, the others would jump in to stop it and try to do it for themselves. But even if they combined their forces they could never succeed in taking over the world. And according to the book, the Antichrist comes to power on a peace plan, so the whole world willingly gives up their autonomy to this benevolent dictator. Can you see the US doing that? Even the Arab spring countries aren’t going to go willingly back to a dictatorship. This is all just a movie plot. Pure sci-fi. The only reason people are buying into it is because it is all a big secret. And a secret society can do anything imaginable because we just don’t know how they are going to do it, so anything is possible.
It is the same with Nibiru. If you don’t understand astronomy, then a planet could show up out of nowhere without warning. Even if I still believed in the New World Order, which I did for 30 years, I would have to question just how the Antichrist takeover might actually be accomplished. Yet there are people out there that think it will all go down in less than 6 months. It took Hitler far longer than that just to take over most of Europe. And he had an army. A good one. How big is the Bilderbergs’ army? Do they have nukes? How about submarines and aircraft carriers?
Oh wait, they are just going to be real sweet and the whole world will just ache to let them lead us. Well, the whole world knows about them and the (incorrect) prophecy regarding them and no-one will be fooled, so the chance that the scenario will ever play out is virtually nill.
Strike that – totally nill.
Yet against all logic, many modern Christians would rather accept an impossible lie than to clear their minds and restudy the scriptures to find the truth.
Guess it feels good to be in with the popular crowd. I’m happy being stuck here with the remnant. It’s a small group, but we keep the faith.
james
A fierce leader of the “latter days” is predicted in Daniel 8:23-25
There will be a fierce leader in the tribulation. He will lead the restored Holy Roman Empire and will send the EU’s armies (king of the north) against Iran (King of the South) in WW3. He will not be the so-called Antichrist who stands in the place of God and pretends to be God. That will be the job of the False Prophet, the next pope who will be his religious sidekick. Together they will run the 8th kingdom mentioned by John, a beast, if you like.
Don’t think its going to be Obama though. He will be German. Just like Hitler. Those darned Nazis just never give up!
I am not convinced it is a European. I think most are wimps, and do not like to fight, look at recent wars, they back out. hard to imagine a german gathering a european army.
I think you making 2 personalities out of one is making things complicated.
Yeah, Germany starting a world war – what was I thinking.
If the European Union isn’t the King of the North then who do you think it will be? Don’t forget that Germany is the second largest arms manufacturer in the world. An we know it is not China, they are the tidings out of the east.
I’ve heard a TV preacher say it will be Russia crossing the Bering Sea with tanks over an ice bridge (King of the North) and attacking the US thru Canada (King of the South) – and actually defeating us! This guy may have memorized the entire bible, but he knows nothing about military strategy or arctic climate for that matter.
If you can’t imagine a scenario for the prophetic fulfillment, then you probably have the wrong interpretation. Most people simply try to figure it out, then assume that it will happen regardless of how crazy it sounds. This is the problem I have with the left-behind scenario. The whole plot is too over-the-top. It’s almost Sci-Fi in nature rather than biblical. The whole One world Currency and putting a computer chip into every living person and hooking them to the internet wherever they are… that is nuts. Impossible and impractical. Except in the movies.
What do you think the European Union is going to do when Iran shuts off its oil shipments to Europe? Will they just sit in the dark while OPEC sells all their oil to China? This scene will play out in the next 15 years as oil production in the middle east has now peaked and flattened. Yet China wants 20% more every year. That’s a doubling in ten years. Where will it come from? Europes portion, that’s where. Japan attacked Pearl Harbor over oil. WW3 will start the same way.
If you have a more likely scenario I would like to hear it.
As for the mixing of personalities, I’m just getting it straight. There are only 3 entities in prophecy – the beast (a kingdom), the False Prophet and Satan. There is no Antichrist. The person everyone calls the Antichrist is actually the False Prophet. They confuse the beast with a person whom they call Antichrist. The beast will have a leader of course but he is not mentioned in prophecy. So if you are confused, consider your Antichrist as my beast-leader. Kinda. The problem is that everyone thinks the Antichrist will lead the beast kingdom and then say he is God – a combination secular and religious leader. Crazy folks think This will be Obama. Can you imaging Obama convincing the world he is Jesus? Many people are convinced he is Muslim. That scenario is simply silly, yet many people actually believe it will happen.
Nope, the False Prophet is the man of sin, the one who claims to be God. Guess what. The leader of ⅔ of today’s Christians (the pope) already claims to be the substitute for Christ. He always has been, so the prophecy is already fulfilled. Yet everyone thinks it will be some political dictator that does it. That is just a ludicrous proposition.
But I’m not surprised. As I’ve been saying for years now, nobody applies simple logic to prophecy. They simply say, “anything is possible with the lord.” While that may be true, we are talking about mankind here, and what they are going to do. This won’t include impossible things with divine intervention.
Something to think about.
the king of the north should be Russia/ Turkey/ Syria.. based on history and geography
again the fierce leader is described in Daniel.
he is not a kingdom, but has one.
non catholics, which is most of the population of the earth, do NOT care about the pope
……minor corrections needed for last letter: mid trib Feb 4, 2016 is AQUARIUS 15, not 1 + there are 2 other spelling errors that probably don’t matter. Accuracy is important (……interesting phrase coming from ME)…..J.H.
You never fail to delight me…
you will like this page
http://electjesusking.com/
enjoy
🙂
This guy sure wasted a lot of time on his theory which was posted in 2010. If he had been right, the two witnesses would have appeared in Jerusalem on or around Passover of this year. We know for sure they preach for 3-1/2 years and die 3.5 days before the second coming.
But… sadly they haven’t shown up yet so 2015 can’t be the year. At least he has the Feast of Trumpets right, a fact which is lost on Jan.
But he still buys into the left behind books – Antichrist, New World Order and 7 year tribulation. None of this has happened as he predicted. He attempts to use some recent events such as earthquakes as partial fulfillment, but none of them are clear signs.
All of this goes to show that you can prove just about anything you want from the bible If you are clever enough. Or at least you can seem to prove it. But as Jan can tell you, proving something doesn’t always mean you are right.
🙂
it is not the timeline, but the concept here
A sign of the times we live in:
http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/49021
the beast is getting bigger
this is evil
christian prayer has been banned yet they allow this…..
Hard to believe that things have changed this much in this short of a period of time. Just goes to show how fast things can really happen.
This is all about votes. Does anyone think that in the next 4 years that the Muslim population will muster the votes to overturn the US constitution and to institute Sharia law? You act like they have some sort of magical power (Almighty Allah?) to pull this off?
Even if they did grow in numbers, as soon as they became a majority it would no longer be politically correct to give them religious preferences, so the power would switch to Native Americans of Eskimos or someone else.
This is all just politics. Its not a subversive takeover attempt. There are too many Christian white supremacy groups with lots of guns in this country to allow a bunch of radical Muslims to do much of anything. It is all just scare tactics – like other forms of terrorism, designed to frighten gullible Americans. So you can cower from them or stand up for Jesus and call them out.
It‘s your choice, folks.
you may not be aware….but the big O has provided for Islamic prayer to dominate 2 hours of the democratic national convention here in NC. Christian prayer, of course, is prohibited.
O has already opened the door for Shariah law.
Muslims do not need a majority to rule.
they just need one of them in power, which is what they have in big O
the constitution is dead.
no one in washington is following it anymore.
Hey James,
Just for clarity, the point I am making in all of this is the complete pullback from the Elohim of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (even if much of it was just talk), and a total embracing of all things hostile to Yah and His people. This used to be the type of thing, barring a war where governments were overturned, that would take place over many decades and even centuries. This is happening on a lightning quick pace, in the country that used to be called the “light to the world”. The results of all this remains to be seen. You just need to take a step back and take a deep breath. Even “you” might be surprised at how some of this happens. I’m just saying……….
Marianne,
So just who do you think the King of the South is? Can’t be an Arab country or else why would Turkey or Syria invade it? Even Russia is friendly with these countries and has plenty of its own oil so there is no reason for an invasion.
True, most of the world does not care about the pope, but God does. The pope has been impersonating His son for 1600 years and heads the largest apostate church in the world. The Book of Revelation is not about foreign religions, it is about Christians. History shows us who the beasts / kings of Revelation are and they are Christian kingdoms.
As you know I believe the 8 kingdoms in prophecy (Daniel / Revelation) are Babylon, medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, the Holy Roman Empire, the Vatican, the revived Roman empire (EU) and the next and final will be the restored Holy Roman Empire.
I’m curious who you think the last five are. I know you don’t believe in Rome, but some Islamic empire (Ottoman?), but then who are the other three? They can’t all be future, especially since you think the Second Coming will be in less than 3 years.
Again, I see no logic in your choices, but as a scientist yourself, perhaps you can try to shed some light on the subject and we can all see if it actually makes perfect sense.
Or not…
Thanks
james
I explained my reasoning on other pages.
https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/4-horses-4-horns-4-beasts-of-zechariah-and-revelation/
Click to access 4th-beast-web-4-mt.pdf
there is not a revived roman empire, although there is a last kingdom that includes a piece of rome. the 4th beast has teeth of iron.
you are stuck on the statue nebuchadnezzar saw, and are ignoring the rest of daniel.
the 4th beast is a mixture of the kingdoms ..body of leopard (greece) which includes mostly arab countries today, feet of a bear ( medo-persia, IRan), and mouth of babylon ( Iraq).
in all the ancient kingdom, what is now arab and muslim countries were part of the territories.
Look at the maps.
the king of the south has always been egypt
So you are predicting that Iran/Iraq or Turkey will attack Egypt. And that will start WW3. O.K.
As for your article on the horsemen actually being beast nations, I think that is just whimsy. Lots of illogical assumptions that sound good, but have no basis in truth. I still couldn’t figure out your four kings from Revelation. You rattled off a whole host of Mideast countries with mountain ranges and copper etc, but the whole thing is so complex and convoluted I couldn’t make much sense of it. Sorry.
So just to be clear, please list the four in order (the 2 called beasts, then the last two called kings (kingdoms). I need to figure out how they relate to Jesus’ messages to the churches in the beginning of Revelation, and His eventual return and marriage to one of them in the end. After all this is the true message of this book, the reason it was written. I just don’t see what Islam has to do with the relationship between God and His churches.
You seem to think Islam will take over the world and the banking system and install and Islamic dictator that the whole world will follow, until he says he is Jesus Christ and wants everyone to worship him as God. Something no Muslim would ever do. And then he is going to chip the whole world. Who is this guy? Who does he work for? Where is his military? How will the US and other western nations react when he makes his move?
An enquiring mind wants to know these things. They were never covered in the left behind movie, but you must have some logical, plausible explanation as to how these events are surely coming to pass.
Now that is the article you really need to write! Not just assumptions based on geography. You, like many here, just look at the verses, come up with some correlation to modern times and assume that is what it all means with no regards to logic – whether or not it might actually happen.
Now I already explained my idea that Iran cuts off E.U.’s oil and they attack them and all the other oil producing middle east oil producing nations, thus compassing Israel, then enter Jerusalem to use it as military headquarters causing Jerusalem to be ruled by the gentiles in the end days, all part of prophecy. Many politicians today predict this will happen as OPEC starts running out of oil reserves.
So I need to hear why Turkey will invade Egypt instead, and how such a conflict will cause WW3. Even if other Islamic countries get involved, the US would never get involved.
I doubt you can do this since I have never heard it from any other preacher/teacher either. They interpret the verses, make their claims and leave it at that. They just put their faith in the interpretation, and wait to see what happens. Kind of like an experiment. But in prophecy you don’t get any do-overs. Its more like a horse race than say writing a computer program. After I write a program I can go back into the debugger and fix any mistakes, but if I’m wrong about picking the Kentucky Derby winner, I’m screwed. No refund, no second chance.
This is why I’m so finicky when it comes to prophecy. We won’t get a second chance to get it right. If you want to avoid the mark of the beast, you are going to have to know what it is. As we all know, most will not.
So if you’re not really sure on these kingdoms and only have possible guesses, that’s O.K., but if you can show us a scenario that is actually looking like it is about to happen (for real – no secret signings or societies), then I would love to hear about it.
S’all I’m sayin’.
no, not necessarily….the AC will be opposed by both of them. Israel will be attacked by the north and south when the AC is there.
the copper range was easy for me to see.
Iran has the mountain ranges and WW3 will be initiated by the IRan- Israel conflict.
Jesus message to the churches initially do not relate to the beasts described later…..he is looking at their shortcomings.
the beast is a separate issue but is related to the churches in the end times, as those who fail to obey christ will find themselves dealing with the final beast.
the final beast is a union of all former beasts.
Countries now are bowing to Islam, even america. Both christian and jewish prayers are banned from the DNC, but Muslims will be praying there in large groups, thanks to our Muslim president.
Look at the maps, it shows where each empire was….it is all muslim territory now, for the most part.
the mark is an insignia on the head and arm…..Islamists wear headbands and armbands with bismallah on them.
Well, you said a few things I agree with…
The final kingdom (8th) will be a union of the other three, actually a resurrection of the first one (Holy Roman Empire) and a combination of the next two (Vatican and EU). In this case the first 3 already exist(ed). You still haven’t declared who any of your beasts are/are going to be. You continue to assume that geography is the driving force in the beasts rather than their original characteristics, which were not Muslim.
The Japanese wore headbands and the Nazis wore armbands in WW2 so I could claim the Axis was the mark of the beast as well. This is just grasping at straws to find links between the bible and your theory.
Like the Muslims being able to pray near the DNC. This is a minor issue and in no way portends that Muslims will take over the US. This is an impossible dream.
Also, you are mixing the war of Gog with the wars of Daniel. They are different conflicts. Ezekiel never mentions the antichrist in Israel when they are attacked by their enemies.
You are correct about the beast being related to the churches in the end times. The Book of Revelation is all about the church and its shortcomings. The 2 beasts ARE the church. Two religious kingdoms – the Holy Roman Empire and the Vatican. The second came from the first with all its power and authority (in religious matters). It looks like the lamb (Christ – definitely NOT Islam) but speaks like Satan (paganisms). This is what must be destroyed before Jesus marries His bride (the true church). God does not have to destroy Islam, or Buddhism, or any other religion or any countries. That is murder. Destroying an apostate church is biblical, and logical, but murdering a billion people just because they don’t know the true God doesn’t sound like a God of love to me.
I hope people will consider this when they try to interpret prophecy, and not just look for geography and mountain ranges etc., and then looking for coincidences to put together a theory.
Just saying…
James
Again Matt 24 36:42 tells us that Jesus will fire up what satan has planted and Islam and buddism is satans work so you are wrong when you say God will not fire up them.
Adam,
Your God sounds more like Allah to me.
James
My God is EL, ELOHIM, YHWH,SEBAOT, not allah. From one thing to another. The picture i have as a gravatar is Jesus back. he is in in the Vatican now and you are talking a lots of crap about his Church. The tatoo you see on Jesus back is not finished.
Daniel defined who the beasts were to begin with, so my thinking is consistent with his. These are kingdoms, and yes they have a geography attached to them.
Their original characteristics were that they were anti-semitic, and conquered by force. None of them celebrated mass.
There are different end time wars, not just one.
The world has been given a chance to accept the gospel, or reject it.
It makes more sense that God would destroy those who reject him, than those who have confused Christian theology.
You, like many believe God will destroy people. I say he will destroy an apostate church system, not the members.
James
Jesus will fire up Tares. Tares are not a system it´s people who is not a part of Jesus Church.
The tares grow up among the wheat, they do not grow in a different field in a different nation. The tares are the wicked – Christians who disobey God’s laws wilfully and don’t ask Jesus for remission of their sins. Now, how wicked one must be to be “burned” with the rest of the tares, who knows. But with 99% of today’s Christians breaking the 2nd or 4th commandments, that wouldn’t leave very many behind. But there’s always the second resurrection for restitution. All in God’s time, not ours.
This is a separate event from the destruction of Babylon, before the Second Coming. The tares comes on the Day of Atonement.
God doesn’t kill other religions. He only kills people who come to kill Israel. He will kill Muslims in the war of Gog, but he won’t wipe out the rest of the world leaving only Christians. That move is more like something Allah wants to do.
I’m not buying it.
then why did Jesus die, if unbelievers could escape punishment and go to heaven without him?
Marianne
I know you don´t comment my post 🙂 So I am writing to you instead. I think I chased away Dru from this site :). I thougt Us liked diversity and freedom of speech. I must say James has wicked way of interpret the Bibel but i like all opinions so thats why i am debating with James.
In Hagg. God speaks through him and says he will destroy Kingdoms and heathen nations. In Balaams last prophecy it says messiah will destory Israels neighboors in Hesekiel 38 &39 and psalm 83 it tells us that God will kill all nations that will attach Israel and in psalm 110 it says their will be dead people everwhere and i am just refering to so few things. Their is a lot more about killing. And James thinks that God will be nice against everybody. I thought i was cracy but he takes the price after Jan.
My picture/Gravatar is Jesus back. He is not finished with the tatoo but this is the first picture of it. He is in the Vatican now. We rule! 🙂
istone
You did not drive Dru away. I think debate is good for people. it makes them think.
interesting gravatar. I am glad you like it.
Dude,
Don’t put a tattoo on God. Jews are forbidden by God to mark their bodies. God would not let his son have one so if you give him one God will kill you tomorrow!
.
.
.
Just kidding…
.
Maybe not.
Istone keeps us on our toes. 🙂
James
Jesus is not a Jew he is a Christian and we are allowed to tatoo our selfs 🙂 No Moses laws on us.
Death to blasphemers!!
🙂 Good luck on tattooing God.
Adam, the big problem with your gravatar is that it breaks the second commandment prohibiting graven images of anything that is in heaven. But of course, the Catholic church removed the 2nd commandment from their bible to comply with the order of the Roman emperor Constantine, so you see no problem with that. But believe me, God will see the problem – the problem of MAN changing the word of GOD and claiming it is a MARK of their authority to do so. This is BABYLON, plain and simple and it WILL be destroyed.
Again, good luck on you new gravatar, hope you can convince God on judgement day that it is so cool, He should grant you permission to break His commandment.
🙂
Like I’ve been saying, nobody goes to heaven. They are all resurrected at the end of the millennium at the Great White Throne Judgement. Who did you think were going to be judged at that time? If everyone either goes to heaven or hell, then there is no need for further judgement.
Remember the phrase “Kill them all and let God sort them out!”? Well, this is where all that sorting takes place.
Lots of humans never heard of Jesus. These people will all be given a chance to learn the gospel and accept Jesus as their savior. Others will have to repent for their sins and pagan practices, such as Sunday worship and Christmas and learn to become members of the true church.
Will God kill innocent people, even children in countries where Jesus isn’t known? Or will he give them the opportunity to become part of the flock? Put yourself in their shoes. Or even worse, what if the Koran is right and Islamic prophecy comes true. Wouldn’t you want the chance to know the true God and receive eternal life?
Maybe God will wipe everyone out and just start all over.
Maybe Nibiru will destroy the earth so God can just say, “Oops!” and make a big do-over.
Yeah, maybe that’s it…
🙂
those who have not heard will be judged differently at death than those who heard but rejected the gospel
Hbr 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
to me , this means we are judged when we die
So where do they go? Heaven if they are good? But no one enters the Kingdom of Heaven except thru Jesus, so maybe purgatory? A celestial closet somewhere?
Sorry, we all sleep till one of the resurrections. Jesus taught it 14 times in the New Testament. Otherwise there would be no one to resurrect, so then why have them?
Heaven and hell are pagan. They will disappear after the destruction of Babylon. Deny it and you will not enter the true church. NO pagans allowed!
Sorry all you new romans out there.
….sharing a few thoughts now. It’s SO nice to settle in to the reasonable day of Rosh 2012 as a Rapture date presumed by so many others, a date I couldn’t settle for until all other possibilities were exhausted.
I always check to see if all the points fit, which do if charted simply:
Rosh 5772/2011 to Rosh 5779/2018 is still the Pyramid timeline (because the Return is still in yr Rosh 2018).
Start of the Fall Feasts, Rosh Hashana/Feast of Trumpets is the 5th FEAST and the NEXT one to be fulfilled.
Rosh 2011 was likely the beginning of the 1-yr warning (Jerem 51:46) ending at Rosh 2012.
Return in the mth of AV, 2019 is STILL in Rosh 2018, 5779 (end of the Pyramid timeline).
2520 days after the possible Rapture on Rosh 2012 (with the 3-day mid-trib uncounted overlap/thus 2517 days) is the RETURN at AV 8-9, 2019 (Aug 9-10). 2517 is fine because the three 1260 spans are perfect/’cut short.’
The earth will likely take 2 days to straighten (Hos 6:2-3/”raised up on the third day”), settling to straight position on SUNDAY, Av 10, Aug 11, 2019 which is exactly 2300 days past Apr 24, Iyyar 14, 2013, the SECOND PASSOVER/Num 9:9). Av 10 minus the projected 23-day tilt loss is also TAMMUZ 17, a FAST DAY to be turned to JOY (Zech 8).
The next projected earthquake in that strange 188-day quake cycle is Yom Kippur/Sept 26, 2012; and that day is the beginning of 7 exact months (burying bodies/bldg 3rd Temple) following a possible Yom Kippur supernatural event in the mts of Israel. After all, Ezek 38-39 speaks of earthquake and hail in reference to that huge Victory. If Yom Kippur 2012 is to be the day of such a Divine Victory in Israel (following the 9 days world chaos/Awe & N. Invasion after the Rapture), then that would certainly turn the solemn day of Yom Kippur into JOY.
The Trumpet Blasts of Rosh Hashana supposedly ‘confuse Satan’ with spiritual confusion reigning in desperation for those 10 days of AWE; and the Rapture will certainly cause world chaos & confusion.
The Return at Av 8-9 minus the 23-day tilt loss (“days cut short”) is Tammuz 14, then 30 days mourning later is AV 15 (tu b’Av) when Jesus ENTERS the TEMPE (Isa 63) w/ the Remnant who will have called Him back. Av 15 would then start the 45-day judg of Nations. Av 9 is, of course, the major FAST DAY on the Jewish Calendar; and the Second Coming on that day certainly would turn that Fast Day into JOY as well.
The Return plus 75 days is the end of the trib; but with the minus 23 days, the total days are 52; and there are 52 days from the Return to Rosh Hashana, 2019 (so the trib is virtualy Tishrei 1, 2012 to Tishrei 1, 2019). Tishrei 1 and Tishrei 10 that year will precede the 1st great Millennial Tishrei 15 TABERNACLES/SUCCOTH (Zech 14) celebration that year; and it stands to reason that Rosh Hashana would open that season (since God’s 7 Feasts are eternal & not to be ignored).
The trib timeline (2011-2018) is still seen as such because the Av 8-9 Return is still in the Rosh year 2018/5779. Thus 7 yrs are 2011 – 2018, or 5772 – 5779 when seen in full view.
As reviewed previously, the Millennial TISHREI 1 (Rosh Hashana, 2019) will be OCT 1 and SCOR 1 (both calendars & Mazzarot in sync/360-days each); and that is the case with the end of the trib……Scorpio 1, Tishrei 1, Oct 1. Thus all will be on the perfect, synchronized schedule by the end of the trib (w/ the -23 day tilt loss/earth straightening figured in).
(…the next paragraph may be very confusing; so read at your own risk).
I CANNOT explain why the trib ends at ROSH HASHANA 2019; because now the presumed 17 ‘uncounted yrs’ takes the year back to Rosh Hashana 2002 as Millennium’s start. But since the Millennial NEW YEAR’S DAY will be on Nisan 1 (Ezek 45:18), then the Nisan 1 of 2018 is still the starting point keeping the year in 2018 since all counts will begin on NISAN 1, the Millennial start point (with no problem for the applied -17 uncounted yrs…………..if applicable). When the entire picture is viewed with this in mind, NISAN 1, 2011 to NISAN 1, 2018 is 8 yrs; i.e. the 1-yr warning extends the year to NISAN 1, 2019 = 8 yrs. Since a 1-yr warning was not counted in the AGE of one’s birthday and onward (as Abr, Hana, Eliz, etc), then that ONE extra YEAR possibly won’t be figured in at all. Only God knows how the count is to be handled; but somehow I am still convined that the Millennium has to start on a ONE year, beginning of the 7th Millennium and the beginning of the 121st Jubilee (new 50-yr span that must always start on a ONE); and when one subtracts the 17 uncounted years (as reviewed before), then that is the case. Then again it may be possible that 18 yrs are somehow not counted (not difficult to figure in); but at this point, it’s beyond a human’s ability to figure (a well as a but futile to study). As stated before, the 120 Jubilees (if to be pondered) are the 6,000 full yrs that God promised fallen man in Gen 6:3…………meaning that on the 1st day of the 7 thousandth yr, the Millennium should begin, then the 8 thousandth yr will be the beginning of the New Heaven and the New Earth. If the start point of the 7th Millennium is to appear Biblically reasonable….fitting God’s promise of Gen 6:3…….then somehow certain years are not counted, only known to God; because everything else from Genesis 1:1 and onward has been virtually figurable due to perfect Jewish History spans in the last 6,000 full yrs.
If worthy of attention, the mid trib in 2016, with all the above considered, is SHEVAT 16 to SHEVAT 19 (Feb 26-Mar 1, 2016) and is interestingly PISCES 8 to PISCES 11…..if applicable…..the flight of the believing Jews to Petra/’multiplication of the fish’/sudden belief in the truth by the Jews who will flee to Petra at the prodding/preaching/begging of the 2 witnesses. These fleeing Jews who finally believe the message of the 2 witnesses are the Remnant, the procurement of whom is the primary purpose of the trib (Jerem 30:7) in addition to the multiplication of the precious tribulation saints who will endure persecution like that of no other people in history.
Another VERY interesting point is that any TISHREI 1 plus 280 days is TAMMUZ 14, the likely ‘spiritual gestation’ span of the Remnant, complete by Tammuz 14, 2019 (when earth is straight). The spiritual gestation of the Church is likely the 280 days from Rosh Hashana 2011 plus 280 plus the 75 days (in Grace on THIS side of the trib). The 75 days on the post Return side are in Judgment. They will, in a sense, cancel each other out……..spec.
So, those who have surmised the Rapture to be Rosh Hashana this year have been admirably patient as they have wisely realized the fact that Rosh Hashana involves TRUMPETS, the NEXT & 5th FEAST to be fulfilled, JUDGMENT DAY…etc. All the above info simply offers is a bit more insight as to the possible & speculative connecting points within the next 7 years because I’m of the belief that everything has to fit before, during and after: the three 1260’s, the 1290, the 1335, the 7 mths burying, the 2300 days Temple Desecration, the 75 post trib days (-23=52), etc. etc.
Disregard the 6 mths addition to Rosh, the 5-mths delay as per the Noah story……etc as per my last letter. Apparently it meant nothing, even though at the time it made sense.
Thus we can look with anticipation to Rosh Hashana………………..J.H.
Well Jan, you said it yourself, “disregard some of the things I said, apparently it meant nothing.” I actually believe that none of it meant anything. You have made something so simple into a complicated monster of computations. Jesus will return on the Feast of Trumpets-a day He must fulfill. We are told over and over again that he will return with a trump, on the LAST trump. And in Jewish tradition that day is also known as “the day that no-one knows” which is exactly what Jesus told His disciples.
Your only problem now is that you have the wrong date for the Second Coming, and the fact that there will be no rapture.
The fleeing of the remnant from Judaea you mentioned is actually the protection of the true (Christian) church for the last 1260 days. Just like every other protection scenario in the past, it will be done right here on earth. Converted Jews will be included but it will primarily consist of the true Christian churches whoever they may be.
But Jesus is not returning twice on the same day. You can’t fulfil a feast twice and people leaving the planet can’t qualify as fulfillment either.
I couldn’t completely understand your reasoning for the millenniums ending in a 1, but you may have hit on a point, that God’s millenniums do end on a 1 at least in our calendar system, so the fourth millennium ended in 0031 AD, then the sixth one should end in 2031 AD.
How’s that for complicated math? Maybe God believes in the KISS principle too!
Sweet.
Jesus will never start his next mission on Feast of Trumpets. Jesus tells us that hw will come back at the end times. There is nothing that connects end times with Feast of Trumpets on the next years.
Jesus says we will have signs in heaven to. In 21 dec 2012 3 planets are in line just as they were when Jesus was born 200o years ago. 21 dec 2012 is also the time when the Earth has circuled around it´s own circle for 2600 years and it ends in 21 dec 2012. And the 13 Baktun ends then. So 22 dec 2012 are a new time age. then we are in time of aquarius.
Jesus will start his next mission probably dec 22 dec this year or 40 days after passover 2013.Jesus ended his time here on earth 40 days after passover 2000 years ago.
It is obvious you do not understand the significance of the Hebrew feasts and how they are to be fulfilled by Christ.
And as for the procession of the equinoxes, which is actually 25,765 years, there is no beginning or ending point – it is a continual process. It is like the earth’s orbit around the sun – there is really no official starting / finish line and different countries / calendars use different points. So while the Mayans picked their own point, they really didn’t understand how the solar system actually works, so their pick means nothing.
But this is all science, and you don’t believe in that, so we will just have to wait a while and see who knows what they’re talking about.
26000 years and not 2600
James
No I don´t understand Hebrews feasts and the connection with Jesus. I saw a video about the book Daniel and the return of Jesus and it was just crap so please. Teach me. I´m open minded so I will never close any doors.
James I love the Bibel and the Bibel says that only God knows exact times.
And the Mayan has given us exact times before so according the Bibel their info comes from God and they say that end of time is 21 dec 2012 and Jesus says int Matt 24 :36-42 that he will come back in end times. And this video i saw about the book Daniel and Jesus return refers to the Bibel that we will hav signs in heaven from the sun moon and stars about Jesus return and dec 21 2012 3 planets will be in line. Some of this is explained in MJ song another part of me. Try to understand. Jesus says in the beginning av the book Rev. that he is the last. That means it will not come any witnesses because if the witnesses shows up Jesus will not be the last. Jesus is the one who will return next.
What i want to say is that I believe that Jesus next mission will start dec 21 2012 and their is no Jewish feast at this time.
Istone,
Here is one of the best presentations on Hebrew Feast days.
Also, visit this site for excellent written explanations: Hebrew4Christians.com
Blessings
Psalm 1
Well Adam, there is good news and bad news here. The bad news is that the Mayans did not know bible prophecy and there is no significance to Dec 21, 2012. Also, you will never understand the bible if you don’t understand the religion of Jesus – Judaism. He didn’t come to create a new religion, but to fulfill and update His own. But because most Jews didn’t recognize him as the messiah the apostles took the message to the gentiles at the end of the 70 weeks of Daniel, after the stoning of Steven.
But the good news is that after nothing happens on Dec. 21st, you will be able to go back and reevaluate your ideas and luckily there is still time left for you to learn the truth. The same can be said for Jan and his followers who think they will be raptured away any day now.
But as long as we all hang in there and keep this discussion going there is hope that everyone will eventually figure out what is going to happen. I know I’m in the minority around here, but so is the true church – the remnant. So that alone gives me hope. And we don’t have that long to wait. That is, to prove many ideas on this site are wrong, so after that I hope everyone will begin to think again about the whole thing and then we can have a very useful discussion.
And so we wait…
James
When Jews rejected Jesus. Jesus started a new religion and this was Jesus plan.
In March 2013 Us will start to implement a chip in peoples body so they will have rigt to medical care. Sorry for my english! This chip is a chip with a GPS where you can be reached all over the world. If you translate 666 into old Greec then you will have www which means you can be reached world wide. So Jesus must start his next mission before March 2013 and there is no other date that refers to end time other than 21 dec 2012. Jesus will bomb the world with fire and brimstones from heaven and the worlds currencies will die out. So Us will try to us the medical care chip to introduce a new currency and Jesus will say you are not allowed to take this chip into you so you have to live without money. Money is satans thing.
Time will tell if i´m right or not.
God bless me 🙂
You are totally wrong, of course.
The “new” religion is so apostate it will have to be destroyed when Christ returns. This is “Mystery Babylon” in Revelation. This includes the Catholic and Orthodox churches as well as most protestant churches who still have pagan practices in them. It is not going to be the bombing of the whole world by Jesus.
The chip may be used in a limited fashion, but it will never become the only way for people to buy and sell stuff. That is a myth made up by novelists and screenwriters.
If Jesus thinks the world should work without using money then He is a communist.
Well, maybe He can make it work.
James
Us has destroyed the Italians and the Irish people who moved away to that damned country. You dón´t understand anything.
I’m Italian, and I haven’t been destroyed, so I don’t know what you’re talking about. I think you watch too many movies.
James
Your not Italian anymore. If you were Italian then you would have been a Catholic. You are an American = protestant. You belong to the wide port that leads to disaster.
I was a catholic for over 40 years. My whole family is still Catholic – over 200 of them. There are over 40 million Catholics in the US, so your information is wrong.
I could say that all Scandinavians are nothing but drunken Vikings who rape and pillage at the drop of a hat, but that would just be a stereotype.
So don’t be so quick to judge…
James
Your family is Catholic but you are not. I´m not talking about your family i am talking about you. And I agree. Scandinavia is a ateistic viking country that soon will burn. You are absolutly right that they are drunkey. They don´t sell beer and wine in stores here. We have to go ta speciall store to buy normal beer so people should not be drunken on weekdays etc.
James
You say i don´t understand the Bibel. It´is you that don´t understand the Bibel. Jeremiah 51 is about Us. If you think i am right you will move out of that country but you are staying their that gives me the info that you don´t understand the Bibel.
Time will tell whos right.
Hey Adam,
I’ve lived half my life 20 miles from the San Andreas fault and we have been expecting ”The Big One” (earthquake) here in southern California for the last 30 years. So I’m not afraid of a little world war, believe me.
Plus, I am counting on Jesus’ protection during the tribulation, so I will flee when I am told to do so – 1290 days before the Second Coming.
But unlike many people, I am not concerned about dying, in fact I’m looking forward to it. Imagine to be 33 again and in perfect health, and to be able to fly like an angel! Sure beats my current situation.
We all look forward to being raptured (whenever) right? Well in order for that to happen your current body must die and in the twinkling of an eye, you will be rebuilt. But if we die tomorrow, we still wake up in the twinkling of an eye (to us) and we even beat out the living, as the dead rise first.
Cool, eh?
CLARIFICATION is EVERYTHING to me, so read on:
Are you ‘up’ to some more insight? Points must be made concerning the last letter (for what it’s worth).
Remember how I said that ROSH HASHANA plus the 6 mths reaches the official, Millennial New Years Day/NiSAN 1 (Grant Jeffrey’s book, pg 61/’Armageddon, App’t w/ Destiny’/Ezek 45:18); well, that IS the case (Rosh 2011 plus the 6 mths is NISAN 1, 2012/Mar 24). Then there are 5 MORE MONTHS, matching Noah’s 150-day delay in the ark til his exit…… (March 24, Nisan 1 to August 24, Elul 6 = 5 mths). Of course the 150 is 5 perfect mths and our present 5 solar months are 152 days.
Now add the earth tilt number of 23.5 days to Aug 24, 2012 and one reaches Sep 16-17 Rosh Hashana 2012 (23.5 days that will MINUS at the Return) and you still have the END of the 5 months delay at Aug 24. So in retrospect when the earth is straight, the Rapture will be ‘AS HAVING OCCURRED’ on AUG 24, five months past Nisan 1, 2012.
So the Rapture at Sept 16-17, 2012, MINUS the 23.5 days tilt loss brings the date back to Aug 24, 2012, end of the 5 mths past NISAN 1 (the “beginning of days”).
Thus, when I said in the previous letter that the 6 mths past Rosh plus the 5 months past Nisan 1 “meant nothing,” YES they DID mean something when included in the whole picture. To me it’s disastrous to conclude that something meant ‘nothing’ when it seems to have held such significance……and for sure, IT HOLDS. FEW things can be cancelled out as nonsense and ALL things have to be studied and compared intently; and if I shared something that seemed innaccurate (like the Temple Mt UFO) it consumes my thinking until I clarify the fact. Of course scofferism demands disinterest in the whole matter………tragic at this point since we’re obviously approaching Rosh Hashana in just a few days.
Thus: Rosh 2011 + 6 mths = Nis 1, 2012 + 5 mths = Elul 6, 2012 + 23.5 days = ROSH (presumed RAPTURE).
Remember that the “beginning of days” which is NISAN 1 was commanded to Noah at the end of the flood (which ended Nisan 17…..to be the “beginning of days”)……i.e. Nisan 1 and Nisan 17 are the ‘same day’ in that respect. When one thinks about Nisan 1 to Nisan 17 in the year of the crucifixion, those 16 days (w/ reference to God’s command to Noah) seem to be ‘cancelled’ in a sense because the purpose of Nisan 1 was to reach the Victory of Nisan 17 (Jesus’ Resurrection); but all actions that preceded His Resurrection are never needed again because the LAMB is alive forevermore. At least that is how I resign the fact that Nisan 1 and Nisan 17 could be the ‘same’ day
Rosh 2011 (Sep 29) plus 355 days (1 Jewish yr/’shana’/yr = 355 in Hebrew #’s) is Rosh 2012, Sep 16-17. So the one-yr warning is the exact 355 days with the number value of the Hebrew word ‘YEAR.’
Rabbi Kaduri (if his words are worth considering) said that Messiah would come in the mth of AV, 5772. Well, since the 7-yr trib WON’T be counted (Satan’s yrs), then the Return at AV 8-9 in the 5779 will be ‘AS’ the year 5772 after all…….just a thought.
The info in my letters is NOT needed at present for ANYONE who just BARELY studies prophecy to realize that the Rapture is very likely Rosh 2012 because there is now SO much evidence via many sites giving credence to a Rosh Hashana 2012 Rapture. But since I’ve written so many letters to you in the past (entertaining your interest or NOT), I feel I must continue to set you at peace with clarification……..so SILLY, I know!……since I don’t even KNOW you!!! I said before that I only write to the BEST sites in hopes that someone, somewhere, somehow will have the nerve to step up, step out and announce the Rapture via the media (if SURETY backs up such an action via God’s leading) thus saving many souls who will simply be scared to death and accept Christ as did the thief on the Cross. At this late date, a person of authority who really sees the whole picture is going to leave in the Rapture anyway and his business/T.V. show/position……will no longer be threatened with failure.
Rosh is the only Feast the beginning DAY of which is not known. Also, one specific day is not known to anyone because of the 72 hours from the beginning of a day to the end (Japan to Hawaii). Thus “No man knows the day or the hour.”
……sort of amazing:
355 days is one Jewish year and the Hebrew word ‘shana’ (year) equals 355 when the letter values are added. (sheen=300, nun=50, heh=5). Look how the 1-yr warning of 355 days is combined.
280 + 52 + 23 = 355
180 + 152 + 23 = 355
280 + 75 = 355
You know, of course, what each addend is: 280 is the ‘spiritual gestation’ of the Church, 52 is the 75 post-Return days minus the 23-day loss of days and 23 is the earth tilt days th