Signs in the Heavens
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Different constellation arrangements in the heavens confirm fulfillment in Bible prophecy
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Guest Author:
DJ Maxwell
June 2012
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The following is a quick study (summary of research and writings of various authors and sources) in order to gain a clearer understanding of “signs in the heavens”, which are written within Scriptures.
The “Star of Bethlehem “, Peter’s words of Joel on the day of Pentecost and the sign in the heavens presented by John’s Revelation within chapter 12 are all significant “signs” that lead us to a greater understanding of times and events.
This heavenly sign in Revelation can be understood in the context of previous heavenly signs recorded in both Old and New Testament Scriptures thanks to modern astronomy software, Stellarium.
The Lord spoke these works to grab our attention, even today, in Luke 12:56 (Amplified Bible):
“You play actors (hypocrites)! You know how
[intelligently] to discern and interpret and prove the looks of the earth and sky; but how is it that you do not know how to discern and interpret and apply the proof to this present time?
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Background
First, we know that God created the heavens and knows the names for all plants and clusters of stars.
Job 38: 31-33
“Can you bind the chains of [the cluster of stars called] Pleiades, or loose the cords of [the constellation] Orion? Can you lead forth the signs of the zodiac in their season? Or can you guide [the stars of] the Bear with her young? Do you know the ordinances of the heavens? Can you establish their rule upon the earth?” (Amplified Bible).
Amos 5:8-9
“He made the Pleiades and Orion; He turns the shadow of death into morning and makes the day dark as night; He calls for the waters of the sea and pours them out on the face of the earth; The Lord is His name. He rains ruin upon the strong, so that fury comes upon the fortress” (NKJV).
Venus (Mother Planet) Jupiter (King Planet) Regulus (King Star)
Signs in the Heavens at His Birth
We know that the “wise men” followed a “star” in search for the newborn King of the Jews as recorded in Matthew 2:2 where we read,
“Now after Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea in the days of Herod the king, behold, wise men from the East came to Jerusalem saying, “Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him” (NKJV).
With the assistance of the astronomy software Stellarium (which you can download at no cost at stellarium.org), you can see the “star” – formed by the conjunction (coming together) of Jupiter (King planet) with Regulus (King star) in the constellation Leo (lion – King of Judah) during the week of Feasts of Tabernacles between September 10 -17, 3 BC.
The sun is also in Virgo (Virgin Mary) and Mercury (messenger angel) is there too. This was the time when Mary conceived our Lord by the Holy Spirit, as Mary was told of these things one month before; in the 6th month of the Hebrew calendar (Luke 1).
We know that life begins at conception. Therefore, He came to earth during Feasts of Tabernacles (Emmanuel, God is or “dwelt” with us).
“And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth” (John 1:14, NKJV).
Nine months after conception, Mary gave birth to Jesus (Yeshua – “Salvation”) during the month of June 2 BC. The star on this day was the conjunction (coming together) of Venus (Mother planet) and Jupiter (King plant) just below the constellation Leo.
This occurred during the Hebrew month of Tamuz (June/July) and on the 17th day of that month, which marks the beginning of the
three-week mourning period leading up to Tisha B’Av. In 2012, on the Gregorian calendar, the 17th of Tamuz is – July 7th.
This time of fasting commemorates the destruction of both the First Temple and Second Temple in Jerusalem; the day has been called the "saddest day in Jewish history". On this day, Moses descended from Sinai with the 10 commandments, and then broke them when seeing the wickedness of the people.
Isaiah 53: 3-4 reads:
“He is despised and rejected by men, A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him; He was despised, and we did not esteem Him. Surely He has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed Him stricken, smitten by God, and afflicted” (NKJV).
But, according to according to Hebrew tradition, as recorded in Zechariah 8, the 17th of Tamuz will be transformed in the messianic era in a day that "shall be joy to the House of Judah" full of "gladness and cheerful feasts". We know the birth of our Lord and Savior transformed this day of sorrows to a day of joy!
Luke 2:10-12 records the news.
“Then the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid, for behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy which will be to all people. For there is born to you this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord. And this will be the sign to you: You will find a Babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger” (NKJV).
Our Savior was born on the 17th day of Tamuz, 2 BC under the
“Star of Bethlehem” which was beneath the constellation Leo – as seen with Stellarium software.
Again, Stellarium presents this evidence, which brought the Magi (wise men) to the rulers and scholars of Jerusalem seeking the King of the Jews. The Magi saw Jupiter/Regulus in Leo, and then followed this heavenly presentation knowing a King was conceived in Judah.
Then, nine months later – they watched Jupiter/Venus connect beneath Leo, the child was born. This was “The Star of Bethlehem.” This is when the angels came to the shepherds in the field on that warm, late spring season night.
These signs in the heavens caused the Magi to pack up and began traveling thousands of rugged miles to present gifts to the King, and our Savior. The wise men from the east understood the signs in the heavens, while the scholars and Magi of the day in Judah, Samaria, and Jerusalem did not “look up”, comprehend and see.
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Signs in the Heavens on the Day of the Cross
Act 2:14-21 is where Peter tells of the signs in the heavens on the day of the Cross. He quotes Joel 2:28-30.
“I will show wonders in heaven above and signs in the earth beneath: Blood and fire and vapor of smoke. The sun shall be
turned into darkness and the moon into blood…”
We read in Luke 23:44 that darkness fell on the face of the earth (Strong G1093 “terrene or region”).
There was a solar eclipse (sackcloth sun) that day and a lunar eclipse (blood moon) occurring, as Peter references before the Lords’ death on the cross.
Again, the people of Jerusalem, including scholars of that day, did not recall the words of Joel. Peter reminded them. Those people and scholars in Jerusalem did not reconcile Joel’s prophetic writing with the solar and lunar events of that blessed Passover 50 days before, when He was on the cross and died as “The Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world” (John 1:29).
They also did not recognize or maybe accept the impact of a mighty earthquake, ripping the Temple veil down the middle, bringing believers into the Holy of Holies at the time of His death on the cross. They were spiritually blind!
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Signs in the Heavens in Revelation 12
The same signs in heavens that told of His conception (on Feasts of Tabernacles), the day of His birth (17th of Tamuz) and the Day of the Cross (on Passover) occurred September 29, 2011 (on Feasts of Trumpets).
Is this just a coincidence or is it another sign of the end of the age? This sign is recorded in John’s book of Revelation. Along with this sign within Revelation chapter 12 there is information regarding the spiritual and physical war that will begin very soon.
According to John’s Revelation, chapter 12 verses 1-5, the 7 year period is underway because this specific sign was above us months ago.
“AND A great sign (wonder)–[warning of future
events of ominous significance] appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and with a crown like garland (tiara) of twelve stars on her head. She was pregnant and she cried out in her birth pangs, in the anguish of her delivery… And the dragon stationed himself in front of the woman who was about to be delivered, so that he might devour her child as soon as she brought it forth. And she brought forth a male Child, One Who is destined to shepherd (rule) all the nations with an iron staff (scepter), and her Child was caught up to God and to His throne” (Amplified Bible).
![clip_image003[1]](https://heavenawaits.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/clip_image0031.png "clip_image003[1]")
Saturn (Dragon) Mercury (Messenger) Venus (Rev 22:16) Moon (Anti-Christ)
Revelation 12 is a future sign, not revisiting the signs above Bethlehem or looking back at the birth of Christ.
The sign of His first coming was within the constellation of Leo, with Jupiter connecting with Regulus giving notice of the conception. Nine months later, Jupiter connecting with Venus just under Leo at the time of His birth in Bethlehem.
The sign in the heavens as written in Revelation is within the Virgo constellation (Virgin Mary) – but now, the sun is clothing her and the moon is at her feet (Anti-Christ) with Venus (Bright Morning Star of Revelation 22:16) placed within her womb alone.
In this Revelation 12 configuration, Saturn (dragon of Rev 12) is so very close to Venus and Mercury (angelic messenger of Daniel 12:1) is nearby.
All of this was displayed in the heavens during an important Hebrew Feast day – Feasts of Trumpets on September 29, 2011.
On this day – the moon was at her feet. On September 27 and on the 30th the moon was not at her feet. The day of this heavenly sign –
Feasts of Trumpets make this extremely important.
A few days later, Venus and Mercury moved away from Virgo, while Saturn (the dragon) remained within Virgo until 11/11/11. Then on that day, the dragon moved out of Virgo.
This is no coincidence because the heavenly sign of September 29, 2011 is as special and unique (never occurred before or again) as the heavenly signs that occurred with His conception and birth. These heavenly signs occurred on a Hebrew Feast day or a special day of fasting (a day of sorrows turned to joy) for God’s chosen people.
The heavenly sign of Revelation 12 occurred on September 29, 2011.
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Therefore, we are within the 7 years of Tribulation and the Great Tribulation begins in the very near future as we read Matthew 24:15-22 (Amplified Bible).
You may have seen the “Bethlehem Star” video, produced about 12 years ago. The producers of this video did not foresee the Revelation chapter 12 sign coming to pass at all. The producers understood the Revelation 12 sign as looking back at the birth. Nothing in Revelation is looking back; it is a revelation of what is to come, at the end of the age and His return.
Until I started paying attention to Comet Elenin, along with many others, the heavenly sign of September 29, 2011 was not recognized or discussed openly. That is when many recognized the Sept 29 heavenly sign as Revelation 12. Comet Elenin did cause many to “look up” and see.
What comes next?
“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (whoever reads, let him understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to
the mountains. Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.”
We will all see and understand, and there will be a “cry” that will awaken the 10 virgins “Behold, the bridegroom is coming”! The cry comes when we realize what just took place and what is coming next – His soon return.
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Sign for the End of the Age
Do you agree with the notion that the fig tree, which Jesus mentions in Matthew, relates to Israel becoming a nation?
“From the fig tree learn this lesson: as soon as its
young shoots become soft and tender and it puts out its leaves, you know of a surety that summer is near. So also when you see these signs, all taken together, coming to pass, you may know of a surety that He is near, at the very doors. Truly I tell you, this generation (the whole multitude of people living at the same time, in a definite, given period) will not pass away till all these things taken together take place” (Matthew 24:32-34, AMP).
We read Daniel 9:25 to be the restoration prophecy:
“Know therefore and understand that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem until [the coming of] the Anointed One, a Prince, shall be seven weeks [of years] and sixty-two weeks [of years]; it shall be built again with [city] square and moat, but in troublous times” (AMP).
We know the definition of a generation is 70 years (Psalms 90:10).
A simple (it is not complex) interpretation of these verses, in prophetic and fulfillment is:
The UN “sent forth a commandment” to establish Israel as a nation on November 29, 1947. For the generation to witness all the events that Jesus lists in Matthew 24, all those events within Matthew 24 must occur within 70 years of that date.
1947 + 70 years is 2017. However, understanding a Hebrew year is 360 days not 365 and adding 70 years may just total an earlier date of November, 2016. There are “Blood Moons” occurring along with solar eclipse events during Hebrew Feast days between 2013 and 2016 (Revelation 6:12). Sets of blood moons occur with great frequency since creation. But, this is a very unique set of blood moons, occurring over just 3 years cycle (as defined by NASA) and on Hebrew feast days. That is no coincidence.
With this interpretation of signs in the heavens and the fig tree lesson – in regards to the end of the age and His coming (Matthew 24) – “all these things” related to the end of the age and His coming will be fulfilled by no later than 2017 or as early as November 2016. This is not date setting of “rapture”.
This is a reading of the signs in the heavens and understanding the lesson given to us by our Lord when asked the questions – When and What? He wants us to be wise virgins – prepared. He expects us to read the signs and understand the lesson; “See, I told you beforehand.”
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Conclusion and Call to Action
The 7 years of Daniel’s account and setting forth of events within Revelation began months ago.
Could it be that the 7 years of Daniel’s time line and the opening of the first seal began on October 9, 2009 (Feast of Tabernacles) – with a peace prize (“crown”) given to “he” who rides the white, red, black and “pale” horse (Revelation 6)?
If so, then the sign in the heavens on September 29, 2011 (Feast of Trumpets) was a warning blast of the shofar – to wake up “for the night is far spent and the day is at hand’” and prepare for the events before His coming (Romans 13).
The virgins are sleeping. The wise are prepared before the cry goes forth (Matthew 25).
Soon, many unwise virgins will hear the cry and rush to buy oil (to comprehend the value and blessings of the Kingdom) for they have an empty vessel (unaware of the oil’s value they ask the wise virgins).
The wise virgins are prepared as they daily “seek first the Kingdom and His Righteousness”, knowing our Lord is our High Priest, King of Righteousness and He knows His sheep.
We prepare by walking under the Armor of Light (Romans 13:12-14) and put on the full Armor of God (Ephesians 6). Wise virgins seek first the Kingdom and hold a vessel representing our personal relationship with Him that is so very valuable we don’t share it – “Buy the truth, and do not sell it, also wisdom and instruction and understanding” (Proverbs 23:23).
We overcome the dragon by The Blood of the Lamb (helmet of salvation) and our testimony (shield of faith, breastplate of righteousness, girded by Truth) with our sword (the Word) and our secret weapon – the fervent prayers of the righteous (Rev 12:11 and James 5:17) and will therefore receive our rewards from the King of kings and Lord of lords.
Thank you, Father God. Thank you, Jesus our Savior and Lord. Thank you, Holy Spirit. Amen.
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“The [Holy] Spirit and the bride (the church, the true Christians) say, Come! And let him who is listening say, Come! And let everyone come who is thirsty [who is painfully conscious of his need of those things by which the soul is refreshed, supported, and strengthened]; and whoever [earnestly] desires to do it, let him come, take, appropriate, and drink the water of Life without cost” (Revelation 22:17, AMP).
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Note
“And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. — And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped” (Revelation 14.14-16).
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Please consider the following diagram when reading the above verse.
It is a diagram of the constellation Leo – The King of Judah. Notice the sickle.
The reaping comes at the end of the age and the wicked are taken away. Then the righteous (wheat) will remain “in the kingdom of their Father”.
“Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn…Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!” (Matthew 13: 30, 40-43, NKJV)
He who has ears to hear, let him hear? Jesus said –
“Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says: ‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand, and seeing you will see and not perceive; for the hearts of this people have grown dull. Their ears are hard of hearing and their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, so that I should heal them.’ But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear; for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it” (Matthew 13:13-17, NKJV).
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Additional note and insight:
This sign in the heavens occurs on September 23, 2017 (Shabbat Shuvah).
"Shabbat Shuvah ("Sabbath [of] Return" שבת שובה) refers to the Shabbat that occurs during the Ten Days of Repentance between Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur. Only one Shabbat can occur between these dates.
This Shabbat is named after the first word of the Haftarah (Hosea 14:2-10) and literally means "Return!" It is perhaps a play on, but not to be confused with, the word Teshuvah (the word for repentance)."
https://www.hebcal.com/holidays/shabbat-shuva
https://www.ou.org/torah/parsha/shnayim-mikra/vayeilech_haf/
Jupiter (representation of God) is with Virgo (virgin), while Venus (representation of Jesus) is in Leo (King of Judah).
All these planets are in a line, while Saturn (representing Satan/Dragon) is no where in sight.
This occurs 70 years after 1947. I think this is a sign of the season of God’s Sabbath rest for 1000 years as our Lord reigns.
Yes hipocrits do I also say to you .How many times do I have to warn you before you see that the end time is upon us?
1. Fatima 3rd secret on 1917 + 100 yrs =?
2. Totalling no.of years from Adam to now = 5993 or 5994
(Gods 7 days = 6000 +1000 yrs)
3. St. Malachi’s Pope list (Benedict XVI is one before the last ) & recent earthquakes in Italy
4. Climate changes
5. Change in Characteristics of Younger Generation
(Timothi)
I’ve been an amateur astronomer for over 55 years and was an astronomy major in college before switching to photography and computer engineering, and I can tell you while these so-called signs may appear fascinating and amazing to the casual observer, to me, they are rather common occurrences in the overall picture.
Just as you can pretty much make the bible say anything you like with clever interpretation, the same can be said with the stars. Everyone thought that the comet Elenin was going to be a great sign and partly destroy the earth, yet none of the doomsayers ever actually saw it. Did you? Only the astronomers who photographed it and correctly claimed it was of no consequence to the earth ever actually saw it, and yet it was their photos were used by YouTube hucksters to make their outrageous false claims. Now they all look silly and totally ignorant.
I think the same will prove true in this case.
As well as the claim that the Nobel Peace Prize, given every year since 1990, hardly a “biblical” event, is the covenant with many mentioned by Daniel and already fulfilled by Jesus.
How does the story go… the Antichrist comes to power with a peace plan and rules the New World Order for 3-1/2 years, then turns evil and institutes his mark. Oh yeah, isn’t the rapture supposed to take place just before the peace plan? So where was that. Maybe it has happened but there were so few true Christians nobody noticed they were gone.
So what’s your scenario here? What should we expect? WW3 in 6 months? Where is the New World Order and the One-World religion? What If Obama is reelected this fall? Will God postpone prophecy for another 4 years?
Sorry to act like an engineer here, but you are showing us a box and I would like to know how it works.
Schematics, please…
Thanks.
James
WW3 starts in about 7 months!
Cool, I’ll get me a helmet.
I too believe that WW3 will be sometime right after the first of the year. I have nothing to back that up except a “feeling”…but I also believe it will coincide with the Abomination of Desolation right after that and the more I read and study I believe it will be on/around Passover of next year.
Deb,
Dreams and feelings aside, I’m wondering If you can identify any prophetic fulfillments that have happened in the recent past. After all If we are 2-1/2 years into the tribulation Surely much in the Book of Revelation must have come to pass by now.
As for the abomination of desolation, what exactly are you expecting to happen? Many people believe it will require a rebuilt Jewish temple and the reinstatement of animal sacrifices. I know that the Jews are collecting objects to use in a new temple but they are still a long way from breaking ground any time soon, so there just seems that there is an awful lot of prophecy to be fulfilled before next Passover.
I’m always combing thru news stories looking for signs that the end is near, but of course I have to know what to look for. I’m reminded of the preacher that claimed God told him that Jesus was going to return last September, plain and simple, no need for any prophecy to be fulfilled.
Of course, he was wrong (twice, actually). So you must pardon my skepticism and my need to back up your claims with facts, but that’s the way my mind works.
So any additional details would be greatly appreciated.
Noticeably it is the Lord, it appears who will build His Temple, as this passage clearly indicates though most are not interested in hearing anything of it since it is generally easier to imagine that when Christians feel it is time to apply scripture to them they take the liberty of doing s, OT or NT, and when the bad stuff is apparent then it is time to apply the bad stuff to the Jews, of course this is the basis of selfish anti-semitism, but, this is not a spiritual temple that is spoken of here. Of course this means that the anxiety of Christians watching for the repitiion of another Temple to be destroyed and abominated and another abomination built on the site as Hadrians Temple to Jupiter was built and as if the two abominations of desolations built by the bloody terrorizing Muhammedans that have sat in front of all our faces on the Temple Mount , on the Holy of Holies,these 1321 years, is not enough we all have to add another repitition of fullfillment again and insist the third Temple must be destroyed…Oh no! This is the third, the Lords’ building with His people and it is not to be abominated as the first two as the text below says. The abomination of Desolation, the two vile Islamic Mosques are Built where it ought not to have been done and only Muslims would do that under the direction of Satan the Dragon.
Open your eyes and see what stands before you or you will no more see the Lord return as many had not the eyes to see llong ago the first time he came.
You want details James? You won’t get anymore than has been given for all who have eyes to see the last 2000- years of hell on the earth and that especially to the Jewish people already. Everyone is in for a big surprize because the scriptures are almost all fullfilled and the ground will open up when the Lord steps down and the Mount of Olives splits in two and swallows the abominations that are already there. What has been prophecied and judged to the Jewish people is happening to the Christians before and now as well for judgement comes first to the House of God and then to the Nations. It would be well to catch up to reality before reality catches up to us all in terrible ways because we wished to be blind and deaf to the truth. sitting in front of us for the Christian churches have been as blind pharisees and have committed the same sins as has been done through the ages though they have thought themselves rich enough to be whited sepulchers but, are after all no different.
This Temple is also Ezekiels Temple and it shall be built as has been directed the one for His reign on earth and it is not to be abominated for that is fullfilled and passed.
When I ask Christians where does it say that all these terrible prophecies all fullfilled must be repeated a second time again they cannot answer because it they do not recognize the horrors the Jews have all been through already or the descruction complete as the Lord said would be done of the Temple. Pity! Willful blindness and willful ignorance are terrible things to overcome. When Pharoah ignored these terrible things before his eyes it was called the hardening of his heart, but, the Lord tells us the last day Christians, the Laodicean Church, the lukewarm church that He is knocking on our hearts doors and He will come in to us and sup with us if we open it and He will wash our eyes, and give ears to hear and clean garments that we may be clean, that we may hear what the Spirit is saying to the Churches.
Zecheriah 6: 12 – 15
Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD: 13Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule on his throne; and he shall be a priest on his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both. 14And the crowns shall be to Helem, and to Tobijah, and to Jedaiah, and to Hen the son of Zephaniah, for a memorial in the temple of the LORD. 15And they that are far off shall come and build in the temple of the LORD, and you shall know that the LORD of hosts has sent me to you. And this shall come to pass, if you will diligently obey the voice of the LORD your God.
The great company that we see today, the Islamic nations, Russia, Turkey etc are all named in Ezekiel 38 and 39 and it is at no other time in the past nor will it be a far flung time of the future that the nation of Israel that has been gathered from the four corners of the earth for the dragons beast of Islam with the UN whore that rides her wanting the destruction of the Lords Witness and People Israel and the gentiles grafted in to her through Christ. How many of us gentiles have helped the Lord carry the Jews home? This is our time to have been fullfilling His Prophecies and they are all coming together. This time has come and no other time meets all this criteria for the Islamic nations and the UN have all thought a very evil thought over and over again and they seek Israels anhialation. How much more evil can you get for they want a total anhialation of the Jews again and the willful UN and world wants to ignore this threat and pretend the land of Israel was always Islamic. Oh open your eyes that you may see the day that thiis is occurring. UNESCO will declare all Jewish sites to be Muslim and thereby declaring those parts the country of the PA. It is so devious and terrible and only the Jews and a few dissenters in the UN are calling foul. How can the UN do such an evil thing? Well Open your eyes and watch the judgement on this evil whore and her paramour beast of Islam carry out their evil thought!
The read of what is going on NOW in Arutz Sheva is devastating for all of the Jews Holy sites, Rachels’ tombs etc. are one by one being declared mostly Muslim or Christian meaning they never were Jewish. The crime is terrible and judgement and the fury of the Lord against them shall be swift and terrible for they are doing a terrible thought and carrying out an evil lie!
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Tag.aspx/1224
UNESCO Convenes, PA to Gain Recognition as Country?
by Chana Ya’ar
UNESCO opens a regular session Sunday to consider 31 new sites for its World Heritage List – including the Church of the Nativity.
The windswept Judean desert fortress of Masada along the shores of the Dead Sea is already a UNESCO World Heritage site.
The United Nations agency, which is considering sites that are primarily in need of emergency status, is meeting in S. Petersburg until July 6.
It is the first time that Russia is hosting the World Heritage Committee session – and the first time the committee is considering any site labeled with the geographic location of “Palestine” as an independent sovereign nation.
Israel and the United States, among others, have objected strenuously, as they did when UNESCO voted 107-14 last year to recognize the Palestinian Authority as the country of Palestine and admit it as a member despite the refusal of UNESCO’s own parent body, the United Nations, to do so.
Should the committee decide to grant the church official status by adding it to the World Heritage List of endangered sites, UNESCO will have by default enabled the Palestinian Authority to gain official international recognition as an independent sovereign nation.
A number of legal analysts also have said the move may de facto dissolve the Oslo Accords, which mandate that all final status issues be resolved through negotiations between Israel and the Palestinian Authority.
James
abomination of desolation = Nero
rebuilt Jewish temple = Jesus will build a church a no ungodly man will take place in it
Actually, I don’t believe that the Jewish temple will be rebuilt until Christ returns. He told his disciples that the old temple would be destroyed but He would rebuild it in three days. That will be the temple described by Ezekiel.
I don’t think the abomination will even be a Jewish thing. First of all, the Jews will never reinstate animal sacrifices of any kind, and second, since Jesus was the sacrificial lamb, further sacrifices are no longer necessary, so God would be more angered If they were to start rather than to be stopped.
So the abomination will be a Christian thing, and since the Catholic church is the whore of Babylon and since the Catholics regularly pray to statues, especially Mary, which is forbidden by the 2nd commandment (deleted by the Catholic church) the abomination is not hard to imagine.
I also don’t believe in the New World Order, or an antichrist dictator to lead it. Only the Vatican beast and the False Prophet. And I don’t believe in the generally accepted 7-year tribulation. It will only last 3.5 years and will begin with the appearance of the two witnesses. That should happen on a Passover as Deb mentioned.
So I agree that the stage is set for the tribulation, but I just don’t see world events coming together quite yet.
I keep looking for signs, but I can’t get on board with dreams and hunches, not even my own. I only trust in the word of God.
So I guess we’ll just have to wait and see. Adam is still waiting for Nibiru, but it‘s still a no-show. He’s gonna be sooo disappointed come December. Bummer.
Hope you won’t be too disappointed If WW3 doesn’t start next year. The big disappointment will be to learn that you can’t trust your dreams.
Real bummer.
😦
James,
What one believes regarding our Faith, should be based upon what is written within Scripture and revealed by the Spirit of truth.
Above you state, “He told his disciples that the old temple would be destroyed but He would rebuild it in three days. That will be the temple described by Ezekiel.”
You clearly have difficulty in understanding the Word of God, as you have demonstrated in the past numerous times.
In John 2:19. Yeshua said, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” When Yeshua said this, He was referring to Himself and not a literal building. John 2:21., would confirm the above, for it is written, “But he spake of the temple of his body.”
Peter, (in referring to Yeshua), states within 1 Peter 2:4., that He is a “living stone” as follows; “To whom coming, as unto a “living stone”, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,” Peter then continues in the Spirit to write within verse 5, “Ye also, as “lively stones”, are built up a “spiritual house”, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.” These “lively stones” are those believers that have truly accepted Yeshua as their Lord, King and Savior.
The English word that was translated as “house” above is derived from the Greek “οἶκος”, transliterated as “oikos”, (Strong’s 3624).
Its applicable definitions here would include, “An inhabited house, or home. The house of God, or the tabernacle. All the persons forming one family. The family of God, or of the Christian Church.” These “lively stones”, these true Spirit filled believers, are then the “Spiritual Temple” of Yeshua and God the Father.
The above can also be confirmed within 1 Corinthians 3:16 where Paul questions through the Spirit, “Know ye not that ye are the “temple of God”, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?” Which Paul also follows up within verse 17, “if any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.”
As well in 1 Corinthians 6:19., Paul reiterates this with the question, “What? know ye not that your body is the “temple of the Holy Ghost” which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?”
So clearly your above statement as expressed, is contrary to Gods Word, and is inaccurate.
Yeshua was not referring to “the Old Temple” when He made that statement at all.
Therefore, since you start off with a lack of understanding, is it any wonder that the rest of what you have to say, is also highly questionable?
For those that Trust, Follow and Abide in our Precious Lord and Savior, may you be Blessed in Yeshua.
Amen.
Ahhh alienated…yes… I imagine that when the Lord comes to restore all things the streets may be like this often… (I hope this works)
Thanks to Naomi Ragen for sending this to me.
Som Sabadell flashmob
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En el 130º aniversario de la creación de Banco Sabadell hemos querido rendir un homenaje a nuestra ciudad con la campaña “Som Sabadell”. Esta es la flashmob que realizamos como colofón final con la…
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wonderful!
When the lord starts his next mission. They will fire up cities so people will flee from the cities. Read numbers 24:17-19. This is christs next mission.
The 3 days to build the temple was Christ on the Cross for 3 days. The Temple is a Heavenly temple. God bless –
Tom
They never let the body hang on the cross over the night so Jesus was not on the cross for 3 days. The 3 days to build the temple was to heal Jesus from Jesus wounds.
alienated,
I understand that Jesus was speaking of the church as His temple. That is why I don’t believe that the Jews will rebuild their temple. Jesus will rebuild it according to the words of Ezekiel.
Now , I can’t prove this, but I believe Christ will return on the Feast of Trumpets, fight the battle of Armageddon and take His throne on the day of atonement ten days later. That throne will be located in His temple and I doubt that He will sit around on it on the temple mount while human workers pour over the plans, gather materials and rebuild the temple. But Jesus said He could raise it in three days: “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.“ Here He is referring to the actual temple. He did not say He would replace it with something else.
Now listen to Peter: Ye also, as “lively stones”, are built up a “spiritual house”
Note the word “also” which means as well as or in addition to. He was referring to the fact that the new replacement for the old temple was a spiritual one, which would hold His church until His return.
Now I ask you, when He returns, just how long do you think it is going to take Him to rebuild the temple?
I’m guessing around three days.
So there… 🙂
James,
There is a significant amount of Scripture that none of us can prove, hence the current misunderstandings, speculations and subsequent divisions.
I personally don’t know of any particular instance within Scripture where Yeshua said, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up”, where He was actually referring to a literal building? (Perhaps you could provide that for everyone?)
However that does not mean that He never referred to an actual building, or structure.
Within Matthew 24:15., He said, “When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the “holy place”, (whoso readeth, let him understand.)”
Here Yeshua was referring to Daniel 9:25-27., 11:31., and 12:11. where these verses do more than suggest that another Temple has been erected and that sacrifices have been re-established, then stopped by someone, or something, with the power to do so.
This would also suggest that it is a worldly Temple, (prior to Yeshua establishing His Millennial Kingdom), for nothing that He had established could possibly be stopped by any power, or principality on Earth.
However, I am aware of your personal theology, in that you believe that the Book of Daniel consists of only history, that the mark of the beast not being literal, or having any economic relevance, and maintaining the Sabbath as a requirement of Salvation etc., etc..
So I don’t believe you will receive what is within parenthesis above.
Though I can not prove this myself either, I believe, (along with many others), that Ezekiel’s Temple is what will be the Millennial Temple during Yeshua’s reign on Earth. Time will tell.
To those who Love our Precious Savior and His Cherish His gift of Grace.
Be Blessed in Yeshua.
Amen.
the actual holy place has been measured to be outside the dome of the rock…in the open courtyard near it. so any one can stand there and declare himself god without a structure.
alienated,
While much of Daniel is already in the history books, there is plenty of end-time events in there. His beasts cover the time frame from Babylon thru the end of the Holy Roman Empire, all of which are history. As for the abomination that makes desolate, that is still to come, but you must note that in the verse everyone uses:
“And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days”
the word “sacrifice” was added by the translators and is not part of Daniel’s original words. So the whole idea that the Jews were going to reinstate daily sacrifices hinges on an assumption by early bible translators. So If it has nothing to do with sacrifices, then the “daily” could refer to a Christian thing rather than something Jewish. As I said, sacrifices ended with Jesus on the cross, so stopping them could not be considered an abomination.
I agree that Christ will reign from the temple mentioned in Ezekiel, and I believe Jesus will build it Himself,,, in 3 days. But If he builds it in 3 seconds I won’t be surprised and it doesn’t really matter, does it?
As for keeping the commandments (including the Sabbath) during the tribulation, they will not be a prerequisite for salvation, just necessary to avoid the mark of the beast and to receive protection from Jesus as He told His disciples. Those who receive the mark and the last 7 plagues will still receive eternal life, but when they are judged according to their works, they will not receive the rewards they were expecting.
You know, we are not that different on the mark – I believe it will be obeying the 4th commandment, and you believe it will be obeying the first commandment. So why don’t we agree to obey all of them, just to be sure?
At least give it a try… that should earn you a few browie points in the kingdom, eh?
Be blessed my friend.
James
The jewish temple will not be rebuilt. The 3:rd temple will be a Church and it will not be rebuilt in 3 days. Jesus spoke of his body.
Maybe the whore is the Us protestant churc since you wright bad words about my church.
The plan was that Jesus would hold the doom for 3,5 years and then his power would go over to a muslim and he would plague the Christian world for planned 3,5 years but this time is shortened otherwise no one would survive. This is probably changed . Jesus will hold the whole doom instead and forgett about the book rev. The finest church on earth don’t have the book of Rev. In their Bible. The reason why the Christian world will be plagued is beacause we are destroying the world and in the new testament. God has promised to destroy thoose who destroys the earth.
My dreams are just dreams but regarding Nibiru we in our faith knows that Nibiru will soon show up. You can doubt me man but don’t doubt my Church who says Nibiru will soon be here and they will hold the doom then.
God can move the planet Nibiru when he wants, were he wants and how he wants it to be moved.
James …Adam… Ohhhh yes! The Temple of Ezekiel will be built and the Spirit of the Lord will return to it as Ezekiel said. It will not be Christian as you imply but it will be for all nations as zechariah and the Lord said and All peoples and nations will be required to send their delegations to Jerusalem to keep the Feast of Tabernacles as Zechariah says.
It will be beautiful with the Lord as our King and guide to learn to put aside these foolish ideas and I can see why He is doing it His way. Even if I do not understand it all I know Gods’ Word is always true and will come to pass as This double confirmation says and as the restoration of the Hebrew people to their lands, the uniting of Jerusalem as one again, and the establishment of the Nation of Israel came to pass as scripture said so shall the building of His Temple come about!
Zechariah 14:…
16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, on them there will be no rain. 18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the Lord strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.
20 In that day “HOLINESS TO THE LORD” shall be engraved on the bells of the horses. The pots in the Lord’s house shall be like the bowls before the altar. 21 Yes, every pot in Jerusalem and Judah shall be holiness to the Lord of hosts.[d] Everyone who sacrifices shall come and take them and cook in them. In that day there shall no longer be a Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts.
I love reading Ezekiels description and I am excited and know it is as true as all of His Words have been and as He has been to me. I do not know why you argue about the restoration of the Lords’ Temple His Way for Israel and the rest of us but, I do know He has never lied to me or to anyone and He still does not and we will see Him return in all His glory as He has said would.
Ezekiel 48: 35….
….and the name of the city from that day shall be: THE LORD IS THERE.”
Ezekiel 43:
The Temple, the Lord’s Dwelling Place
43 Afterward he brought me to the gate, the gate that faces toward the east. 2 And behold, the glory of the God of Israel came from the way of the east. His voice was like the sound of many waters; and the earth shone with His glory. 3 It was like the appearance of the vision which I saw—like the vision which I saw when I[a] came to destroy the city. The visions were like the vision which I saw by the River Chebar; and I fell on my face. 4 And the glory of the Lord came into the temple by way of the gate which faces toward the east. 5 The Spirit lifted me up and brought me into the inner court; and behold, the glory of the Lord filled the temple.
6 Then I heard Him speaking to me from the temple, while a man stood beside me. 7 And He said to me, “Son of man, this is the place of My throne and the place of the soles of My feet, where I will dwell in the midst of the children of Israel forever. No more shall the house of Israel defile My holy name, they nor their kings, by their harlotry or with the carcasses of their kings on their high places. 8 When they set their threshold by My threshold, and their doorpost by My doorpost, with a wall between them and Me, they defiled My holy name by the abominations which they committed; therefore I have consumed them in My anger. 9 Now let them put their harlotry and the carcasses of their kings far away from Me, and I will dwell in their midst forever.
Just like the days of noah… when he told the people there would be a flood and they thought he was crazy so they ignored him…
So are you ignorant and do not want to hear as did those people!!…
God be with you!!
according to old cultures
A New Star Seen In The Sky
Numbers 24:17
I shall see him, but not now: I shall behold him, but not nigh: there shall come a Star out of Jacob, and a Sceptre shall rise out of Israel, – – – –
That star, it will be seen soon, it is not far, yet it is not near, – – – Prophecy Cornishevangelist.
A new star seen in the sky, the brightest star even seen, pulsating red, blue and white. Some call it a new star, but its real name is Zarangel Star, which announces the second coming of the Son Of Man, Yeshua Hameshia, Jesus Christ.
It is spoken of in the book of Revelation as an angel which will fall from heaven and open the bottomless pit. Also it is mentioned in the book of Job 9 v 9, called Aucturus.
It has become so bright that people all over the world are becoming alarmed as it is now becoming the brightest star in the sky, even brighter than the planets Venus, Mars and Jupiter.
It is in the constellation of Bootes, do not be alarmed when you see this star for your salvation draweth nigh.
The return of Jesus Christ to Earth has been foretold not only in the Bible, but also in the night sky since the creation of the universe.
(The origin of the name Bootes comes from a Greek word meaning ‘noisy’ or ‘clamorous’, referring to the herdsman’s shouts to his animals)
According to E W Bullinger ( Witness of the Stars), a Bibilcal Interpretation of the constellations, the ancient Eygptians called Bootes Smat, which means one who rules, subdues, and governs, they also called him Bau, which means also The Coming One.
Book of Revelation 14.14-16, “And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. — And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.”
Now the star Zarangel, which is today known as the star Aucturus, in the constellation of Bootes, is inextricably interwoven in stories of old, but with a continually woven thread within them all, that it speaks of a king or ruler who will one day come to us.
The star is for us Christians so that we would have an encouragement in these last days, for as these days become more and more horrible and dark, we can literally go outside of our homes and lift up our heads and see with our eyes our Saviour’s promise of a second coming.
Praise our wonderful Lord Jesus, for He has given us this physical sign of His imminent return in these last days).
Let us lift up our heads for our redemption Yeshua Hamashia draweth nigh.
Yes, Jesus is on His way, the Zarangel star ( Aucturus Star) announces The second coming.
Job 38:32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzraroth in his season? Or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?
This the Lord gave me last year hope it will bless you.
Bright Shining Star Seen in Eastern Sky Prophecy 27th September 09
This prophecy came to me last night
There is a star a bright shining star coming, brighter than any star that has ever been seen before.
There was a star known as the star of Bethlehem, which was seen to announce the coming of the Messiah Yeshua Hamashia. But, this coming star shall be brighter than that star, it will be seen soon, it is not far, yet it is not near, it will be seen to announce the second coming of the Son of Man, Yeshua Hamashia. The Star will appear in the Eastern sky, Yeshua is coming soon. Adonai’s people will understand, but the people of the world will not understand for the knowledge of Yeshua’s coming will be hidden from them.
Word of Knowledge 1st October2009
This word of knowledge was revealed to me this morning, referring to the new flashing star in the eastern sky.
The name of this new flashing star is called Zarangel Star, it is the star spoken of in Revelation 9. 1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
The position of the star can be found, it rises in the east and sets in the west at approx 10pm GMT. It flashes rapidly, glowing red blue and white, if you look at the big dipper and go from the end of the handle approx a length of the handle again westward and down approx a lenghth of the handle of the big dipper again, you should see it. you will be astonished when you see it.
It is the only star that flashes with such an intensity of red and looks like the flashing light on the top of a police car. It is astonishing people all over the world.
Do not fear it when you see it, but rejoice for it is the sign of your Saviour, Yeshua Hamashia ( JesusChrist ). The only one that can and will save you, for there is no other one given by YHWH( God), that can save you, only Yeshua Hamashia ( Jesus Christ ).
This new star is not the star which has been pictured by the moon in some recent photographs on the internet, and it is not the bright flashing star which is below the belt of Orion, it is unmistakable, it flashes red a warning to the people of the world, a sign to the people of YHWH.
Wow, so interesting. I saw it two nights in a row. I told my husband it was flashing red and he agreed. Never saw a star flashing on and off red till last week.
O.K. Folks, here are the facts on Arcturus.
It is the 4th brightest star in the sky behind Sirius, Canopus and Alpha Centauri. It is a red-orange giant 36.7 light years from earth. It is not a variable star so the changes in color is simply from distortion by earths atmosphere, which makes all stars twinkle, so that is not unusual, but in fact quite commonplace. Brighter stars simply twinkle more noticeably than dimmer ones.
Its magnitude has not changed since it was first measured and If anything, it is slowly getting dimmer as it is near the end of its life cycle.
And according to my sources, the ancient Hebrews associated it with the nearby constellation Ursa Major – the bear, not a herdsman. So much for that theory.
So enjoy the night sky, as I do, by studying astronomy to appreciates God’s work, but don’t look to Arcturus for the return of the Lord.
And don’t look for him in Sweden or the Vatican either.
So there…
Last winter, I saw a star in the eastern sky that was bright but by itself. I was told it was nothing special, but I kept watching it. There were times it did have a red hue, and I made a comment to a friend.
Then after a month or two, I noticed a “companion star” in the west, all by itself as well. It became brighter and brighter, and I was also told it was nothing. I was amazed at how huge it was. Brilliant. Then in the past month, I have noticed it is gone.
Maybe the disappearance has something to do with the earth’s path around the sun on its cycle. But I see neither one now.
Marianne,
What you are seeing is quite common. Especially If you are in an area with a lot of light pollution – as opposed to say, the desert southwest where the night skies are completely dark and millions of stars a re always visible.
As the stars rise in the sky, they brighten due to the fact that we are seeing them thru less atmosphere which tends to dim them down. The twinkling and color changes are due to refraction in the air, kind of like when light passes thru a prism.
As the earth orbits the sun, the stars change their positions in the sky and they rise earlier and earlier until they are no longer visible at night and a new set of constellations appear in the night skies. So the stars you saw will be back next year, and the year after that, forever. So you are not experiencing anything biblical, only simple astronomy.
But enjoy it anyway… 🙂
cornishevangelist
Numbers 24:17 is about Masiah = Jesus not a star in Heaven!
As I see it this woman is the church…The stars are the congregation…The dragon’s tail (means false prophet) drags one third of her stars away..This is the great falling away of 2 Thess.2..These fallen stars become the men of sin. of 2 Thess. 2..They have forsaken Jesus and accepted allah who is sin the moon god…Chrislam???
This chapter and chapter 13 is fulfillment of the prophecy of Genesis 3-15… The seed of the serpent and the seed of the woman and the great battle…bruising the head and bruising the heel..Bruising the heel means their feet become unshod of Christ’s gospel because of the lies of the dragon’s tail…
Bruising the head means to expose down to the foundation…It is the event that takes place in the wilderness when the woman is fed from the face of the serpent..She understands and exposes the lies of the serpent….
The serpent goes to make war with the REMNANT OF HER SEED…verse ;17…That war takes place in Chapter 13…. In fact the Bible tells us in footnotes that the first verse of chaper 13 was originally the last verse of chaper 12…
Revelation 12-18 was/is-revelation 13-1…
And I stood upon the SAND OF THE SEA, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
This verse identifies the beast group as being the foundation of the broad way build on SAND of Matthew 7..It also identifies the foundation as being of Ishamel’s-mohammed SAND OF THE SEA blood lines..
Islam is the synagogue of satan..It is the broad way that leads to hell…
We are in the last few years of this great battle…
Mohammed was the counterfeit messiah namly the antichrist…He, as did Jesus, said he would return during judgment… This is the beast we are battling today…He said his return would be as the sunrise in the west…This would be the apollyon (sun god satan) that comes out of hell to deceive the world again..He returns after 1000 years.. It does not tell us how long after the 1000 years…God in this way has kept it secret…If John said after 1400 years everyone would know the apollyon is/was mohammed…
Mohammed also said he would return with the name he left his family..That name is HUSSEIN….Is it coincidence that the president of the USA is named HUSSEIN and his logo was the sun rising over the stripes of the western world’s flag..??? He has trashed the Bible and enthroned the koran likewise Christianity trashed and Islam exalted…God warned us in Isaiah 14…He said lucifer would rise up and exalt his thronoe over the stars of God… The Jewish people and Christians are the stars of God…
Psalms 74 is about the the great falling away….Chrislam????
Pslams 74-14..Thou brakest the heads of leviathan in pieces, [and] gavestim [to be] meat to the people inhabiting the wilderness.
I do have a fundamental problem with these constellations. We are not to get involved in astrology.
Deuteronomy 18:14 For these nations, which thou shalt possess, hearkened unto observers of times, and unto diviners: but as for thee, the LORD thy God hath not suffered thee so to do.
Another thing is that the star stopped over the house where Jesus was. How can that be?
“There was a solar eclipse that day” A three hour solar eclipse? Wow!
Astrology originated first with Enoch, God gave Enoch the knowledge of the stars and their meanings. You can find this in the book of Enoch.
Christians took this knowledge and expounded upon it with their new faith that they had received two thousand years ago. But, like all truths it has been corrupted with false teachings which has led many astray, and so today it is presented in a very deceitful manner.
False predictions of astrology charts are made for people today for one purpose only, and that is to gain financial riches from the misinformed.
You must not reject all the teachings of astrology just because it has been corrupted, but sieve through it and find the truth for yourselves.
The sons of wisdom know how to pick out the meaning of YHWH from it.
The early Christians did not have a problem with the signs of the zodiac, for they believed that God created all things and planted their crops according to the stars and the moon.
cornish june 12, Astronomy is an entirely different thing than astrology andand it is about the stars that were indeed charted long ago and the names of the constellations i would not argue about because the Bible speaks of them as did Enoch but they did not take up with astrology …that is arguably an entirely different thing. It is like going to the witch of Endor for answers, divining the time and the seasons or calling up spirits etc.
Though I would say that the astronomy of today have lost all wisdom given us from long ago in Adams day etc.
Right now I’m high on beer but stars that are red and green are sattelites. :). Even if I’m high I understand more than you.
September 29, 2012
Is that an error?
I think so, but I will check with the author before fixing it.
Please remember – the heavenly signs of His conception and birth are as unique as the sign of September 29, 2011. These signs in the heavens all occurred during significant and important Hebrew feasts or fast days.
Prepare your vessel.
Wise virgins seek first the Kingdom, holding a vessel representing our personal relationship with Him that is so very valuable we don’t share it – “Buy the truth, and do not sell it, also wisdom and instruction and understanding” (Proverbs 23:23).
Walk under the Armor of Light (Romans 13:11-14)
“Besides this you know what [a critical] hour this is, how it is high time now for you to wake up out of your sleep (rouse to reality). For salvation (final deliverance) is nearer to us now than when we first believed (adhered to, trusted in, and relied on Christ, the Messiah).The night is far gone and the day is almost here. Let us then drop (fling away) the works and deeds of darkness and put on the [full] armor of light.
Let us live and conduct ourselves honorably and becomingly as in the [open light of] day, not in reveling (carousing) and drunkenness, not in immorality and debauchery (sensuality and licentiousness), not in quarreling and jealousy. But clothe yourself with the Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah), and make no provision for [indulging] the flesh [put a stop to thinking about the evil cravings of your physical nature] to [gratify its] desires (lusts)” (Amplified Bible).
Put on the full Armor of God (Ephesians 6).
“Put on God’s whole armor [the armor of a heavy-armed soldier which God supplies], that you may be able successfully to stand up against [all] the strategies and the deceits of the devil. For we are not wrestling with flesh and blood [contending only with physical opponents], but against the despotisms, against the powers, against [the master spirits who are] the world rulers of this present darkness, against the spirit forces of wickedness in the heavenly (supernatural) sphere” (Eph 6:11-12, AMP).
Blessings
My Beloved Brother in Christ,
Greetings to you in most Highly exalted name of
Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
.
I’m Brother John Augusteen. Thank you very much
for spending your precious time for us.
We shall remember you in our regular prayers.
please pray for our Orphanage,Home for the Elderly&Ministry.
We are waiting for your prayerful reply.
In His Service
Pastor. John Augusteen
It is said the 3 wise men were astrologers !
Astrologers? I think these “wise men” were closer to astronomy majors and maybe scholars of Holy Scriptures. They did not worship the stars and give themselves over to “powers”.
I believe they comprehended Amos 5:8-9 and Job 38: 31-33. These “wise men” realized that God named the constellations and knows the names of plants and stars. They came to worship the King and were filled with joy when they saw Him (Matthew 2:10).
Astrologers – as they understood the constellations and the meanings, yes.
“Lift up your eyes on high, and see who has created these things, Who brings out their host by number; He calls them all by name, By the greatness of His might and the strength of His power; Not one is missing” (Isaiah 40:26, NKJV).
“The heavens declare the glory of God; And the firmament shows His handiwork. Day unto day utters speech, and night unto night reveal knowledge. There is no speech nor language where their voice is not heard. Their line has gone out through all the earth, and their words to the end of the world. In them He has set a tabernacle for the sun, which is like a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoices like a strong man to run its race. Its rising is from one end of heaven, and its circuit to the other end; And there is nothing hidden from its heat” (Psalms 19:1-6, NKJV).
On Feasts of Trumpets, 09/29/11, there was a sign in the heavens – the days of Revelation have begun.
Please – wake up and smell the coffee. Prepare your vessel of oil, put on the Armor of Light and Armor of God.
There is no where in scripture it says the wisemen were astrologers and if they were wisement and knew the indication of the stars declaring the coming of the Son of God it is indeed more likely they were Astronomers as you said DJ,
The scripture constantly speaks against seeking out seers or familiare spirits etc. The wisemen of long ago had more wisdom than people of then and today who seek after spirits or divination to tell them what God can tell them in a moment. Much of the wisdom of Astronomy has been lost to Science (though good) that rejects all knowledge of God our Creator, but, we are left with more than enough wisdom in scripture to lead us into the right way with Him as our Guide.
YHWH used the stars and planets as intermediaries to govern His creation and therefore that He created the zodiac and gave the signs their various qualities, the Magi believed this.
God’s wisdom is in more than scripture He is in everything.
Hi Marianne,
There was no room left to reply above.
So lets see what we can find in scripture regarding this?
“Holy place” in Matthew 24:15., “ἅγιος τόπος” or “hagios topos”.
Hagios being “Holy”, and topos being, “place, any portion or space marked off, as it were from surrounding space.”
So far your premise that it could simply be out in the open could still be possible.
“Sanctuary” within Daniel 9:26., “קֹדֶשׁ” or “qodesh”, being, “apartness, holiness, sacredness, separateness, of God, or of places.”
“Sanctuary” within Daniel 11:31., “מִקְדָּשׁ” or “miqdash”, being, “sacred place, sanctuary, holy place of the Temple, or Tabernacle.”
Again so far your premise could be possible.
Revelation 11, (prior to Yeshua’s return to establish His Millennial Kingdom, and during the time of the Tribulation), verses 1 and 2.
1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
“Temple” within Rev. 11:1., “ναός”, or “naos”, being, “used of the temple at Jerusalem, but only of the sacred edifice (or sanctuary) itself, consisting of the Holy place and the Holy of Holies.
“Altar” within Rev. 11:1., “θυσιαστήριον”, or “thysiastērion”, being, (since sacrifices are mentioned within Daniel 9:27., 11:31 and 12:11), “the altar of whole burnt offerings which stood in the court of the priests in the temple at Jerusalem.”
“Court” within Rev.11:2., “αὐλή”, or “aulē”, being, “the uncovered courtyard of the house. In the O.T. particularly of the courts of the tabernacle and of the temple in Jerusalem.”
“Without” within Rev.11:2., “ἔξωθεν”, or “exōthen”, being, “from without, outward.”
So in compiling the above we see in Daniel that a “sanctuary” of some type will exist where “sacrifices will again take place.
In Revelation we have a Temple, an altar, and a court, in which one is covered and apparently inside, as opposed to being uncovered and outside.
I believe that a third Temple will be built and that when Yeshua returns to establish His Millennial Kingdom a new one, the fourth, Ezekiel’s Temple will appear.
This is just my understanding based upon the available Scripture that is provided.
Praise Yeshua our Precious Savior and KING of kings. Amen.
May all be blessed in His Grace.
……continued from James’ comment: June 27, 2012 at 6:41 pm
Just wondering what purpose animal sacrifices would serve for those with incorruptible bodies in the presence of the eternal sacrificial lamb himself?!
james, richard , and alienated
“sacrifice” for Jews now are the daily prayers, which are substitutes for the daily sacrifices..
they pray twice a day at the western wall.
if anything stops , it will be the daily prayers at the wall, if the AC takes over the temple mount.
I thought that God shall destroy the wall according to Ezekiel 13.
good observation, but I am not sure that passage refers to the end times.
The passage refers to false prophets and their fake wall of assurance.
the babylonians came in later and did cause physical damage, so it was fulfilled in a physical sense in history.
of course, certain truths can be repeated if the same sins are present.
James,
This is a response to your post above on June 27th. @ 6:41 pm. where there was no room to do so above.
Well, we finally agree on something. (Will wonders never cease?) That would be that a significant amount of Daniel is yet unfulfilled.
However, I would like to address what you say above regarding the word “sacrifice” and that it was added by the translators and is not part of Daniel’s original words.
Though I will concede that this was the case within Daniel 8:11, 12,13., 11:31., and 12:11 it was only because in translating any particular language into another, that a form of liberty, or licensing must take present to fully convey or articulate what is being said.
The word “sacrifice” was inserted within these particular instances because of the inference that the word itself belonged there to maintain context, simply because as to how it was was presented within Daniel 9:27.
The English “sacrifice” which has been translated correctly within Daniel 9:27., is derived from the Hebrew “זֶבַח”, transliterated as “zebach”.
Its definitions are as follows; 1) sacrifice a) sacrifices of righteousness. b) sacrifices of strife. c) sacrifices to dead things. d) the covenant sacrifice. e) the passover. f) annual sacrifice. g) thank offering.
So though your statement is not totally inaccurate, by omission in not acknowledging the time that the word was translated correctly, it is not entirely correct either.
The integrity of the ketav Ashurit, (the classical Hebrew script in which the scrolls of the Tanakh are written) are impeccable to say the least.
However they are written in Hebrew, and not English. The words that were therefore inserted in English as “sacrifice” within the Book of Daniel, were either translated correctly from the original Hebrew text, or placed within the translated verses due to inference, and the necessity to articulate to its reader the true meaning. This is a requirement that all language translators have to deal with.
You also say above, “Those who receive the mark and the last 7 plagues will still receive eternal life, but when they are judged according to their works, they will not receive the rewards they were expecting”.
You are darn right that they won’t receive the rewards that they were expecting, because if they receive “the mark of the beast” they are doomed period.
This is just another example of your theology propagating falsehoods and being contrary to the Word of God the Father.
We have gone over this, (as well as many other topics), before, and its like beating a dead horse.
I just responded to a similar comment that you have made above, (just over a month ago on May 18th.), on the “144,000 and the 2 Servants” page.
Having tracked my response from that down, I’ll copy and paste it below for you to perhaps comprehend it this time.
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. Revelation 14:11.
And,
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. Revelation 19:20.
As opposed to the following;
And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, [and] over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God. Revelation 15:2.
And,
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Revelation 20:4.
So by Gods Word, those that receive the mark of the beast, will NOT as you say, “still receive eternal life”. Unless of course you believe being chucked into a “lake of fire” unceremoniously for eternity as somehow being a blessing?
There are those of us here that submit to the Lord to the best of our ability, and attempt through His Spirit to interpret the truth, and contend for the Word of our God. Then there are others……. Deuteronomy 32:35. and Romans 12:19. I leave that in His Capable and Majestic hands.
To those that fit into the former category above, my brothers and sisters in the Lord our Savior, may you be Blessed in Yeshua our KING of kings.
Amen.
a.
alienated,
Nowhere above does it say that the people with the mark will be killed, only that they will suffer thru the tribulation.
Here is the conundrum. If a person believes that Jesus died for his sins and properly repents etc, he shall receive eternal life thru the grace of God, right? So what If he takes that stupid chip to protect his family and pretends to worship the so-called antichrist just to feed his family. Shouldn’t he be forgiven for that? Don’t you expect to be forgiven for not honoring the true Sabbath, or for other sins such as lying etc that we all do throughout our lives?
This would mean that Jesus’ sacrifice was not sufficient to overcome the beast and its mark. I refuse to believe that.
Now, these people may not live and reign with Christ during the millennium but after the Great White Throne Judgement they may still receive their eternal rewards, whatever they may be. It would be a shame to waste so many good, but misinformed believers.
Just imagine If I’m right, and the mark is indeed Sunday worship. You and almost every other faithful Christian would have to be destroyed because they didn’t understand the mark. Would you call that fair? Personally, I hope God cuts you’se guys a break on this deal. It would be a bummer If you were right on this one.
Bless.
James
Thoose who takes the chip from US central bank on their body will life in eternal pain in hell. If we will follow the book of REV then in future we have to live without money since money is Satans thing.
I do not really believe that Sunday worship is the mark, although I acknowledge the opinion.
Only 33% of the world even considers themselves christian, and that includes all the lukewarm and fake ones. And that statistic is dropping, not growing.
Already, 66% of the world do not care about Sunday.
So it would not be profitable for the beast to make the unpopular sunday worship a “mark.” the beast wants followers.
the bible says the mark is a real mark that goes on the hand and forehead, and it is not symbolic, since one has to buy and sell with it.
Sunday worship is invisible to the body, and will not go across a scanner at the grocery store.
while the tribulation includes christians, it is not all about christians.
the events described in revelation affect the entire population of the world, not just 33%
Marianne,
You assume that the phrase “whole world will follow the beast” means every man woman and child on the planet. But often in the bible, the “world” on refers to the known world at the time of writing, or the biblical world. In this case it only means the Christian world. As I’ve been saying the Book of Revelation is for Christians, not Muslims or Hindus or anyone else, even though some events do affect the whole planet.
So what it simply means that most of the Christian world will be following the Vatican beast and its harlot daughter churches – Babylon of Revelation. This is already true so there is no need for a New World Order. And this apostate church(es) already accept the mark of the beast, Sunday worship, as well as many other abominations. No need for a One world Currency / bank or a credit chip etc.
As for the word mark, the King James concordance defines it simply as “Seal” and you know the seal of the 144,000 is no visible, but of the mind, not the actual forehead.
It is no coincidence that the only two places on the human body that God uses as symbols for mind and deeds are the right hand and forehead. Strange that a bank or antichrist would choose exactly those two places for its mark (seal). Neither is a recommended location by medical professionals for such a device. In fact, the forehead would be the worst place for such a thing, being made of glass and so close to the surface in front of bone. And why specifically just the right hand? Doesn’t that seem a bit suspicious?
You believe there will be a person (antichrist) that will try to convince the entire planet that he is God, creating a brand new religion with him as the leader. And naturally everyone will simply go along with it because they are gullible, or that he will simply coerce everyone into believing he is a god by eliminating all forms of money and bartering, setting up an incredibly elaborate and sophisticated banking / internet system with ten billion users and trillions of items that must all be identified, priced and barcoded down to Mexicans selling chili peppers on the streets of Tijuana. And a world wide police force to enforce it all, just to get people to love him and call him their god. Sorry, but that sounds even crazier than Nibiru, or Jesus having four wives.
But don’t get me wrong, If Nibiru shows up this solstice and Jesus hops off and takes over the Catholic church, I’ll turn catholic in a heartbeat. And also you won’t find me taking any chip in my right hand. (Only the left).
But then, you also won’t find me believing in Sunday worship either. So I’ll be safe no matter what happens.
Bless.
Some good christians do not go to church. so what about them?
what does sunday worship have to do with buying groceries?
First of all, the mark is about breaking the commandment, not going to a church per se. If you believe that Sunday is the new Sabbath, then the mark is in your forehead. If you act on this belief, it is also in your right hand. Most people will not even think about it and simply go to church every Sunday because it is their churches tradition. These will simply have it in their right hands.
As for the buying and selling, that refers to businesses. Already, some EU nations have forbidden business licenses unless the owner opens on the Sabbath and closes on Sunday, thus honoring the mark of the beast. Once the restored Holy Roman Empire begins, the Vatican beast will expand it throughout the empire as well as enforcing Sunday worship and outlawing Friday and Saturday worship, just as they did in the original Holy Roman Empire. Like much prophecy, this one is dual.
Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.
Surely you don’t think that God clearly warns us what will happen if we do take that mark. I would suggest you don’t. I pray that if you are given the alternative of being killed or taking the mark you choose death in the name of Jesus. I am preparing myself daily for what is to come. I am praying for strenght. Many of us will be killed for refusing it or tortured or will starve but I am prepared to stand firm till the very end ( whenever that may be)
The mark of the beast is not a physical mark but a spiritual mark, the enemy has fabricated this idea of a physical mark to bring fear to you all, don’t be fooled. And as for buying and selling it means only those who lie and cheat will suceed in buisness. So, stop worrying every Christian is marked spiritually by the Holy Ghost, and every unbeliever is marked by you know who.
Hi Cornishevangelist,
I am not quite so sure about that. Please consider the following;
The “mark of the beast” within Revelation is derived from the Greek, “χάραγμα τοῦ θηρίου”, transliterated as “charagma thērion”, (Strong’s 5480 & 2342 respectively). The definitions for “charagma” are as follows, “1) a stamp, an imprinted mark. a) of the mark stamped on the forehead or the right hand as the badge of the followers of the Antichrist. b) the mark branded upon horses. 2) thing carved, sculpture, graven work. a) of idolatrous images.”
Notice that within the context of these various Greek definitions, that there isn’t anything that would infer that this mark wasn’t tangible as in being literal rather than spiritual as you suggest.
Revelation 13: 16,17., also states the following regarding the mark;
16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
The word that was translated into English as “receive” within verse 16 is derived from the Greek “δίδωμι”, transliterated as “didōmi”, (Strong’s 1325).
The definitions for this word are quite extensive, however I will provide them below for you and others.
1) to give. 2) to give something to someone. a) of one’s own accord to give one something, to his advantage. 1) to bestow a gift. b) to grant, give to one, asking, let have, c) to supply, furnish, necessary things. d) to give over, deliver. 1) to reach out, extend, present. 2) of a writing. 3) to give over to one’s care, intrust, commit. a) something to be administered. b) to give or commit to some one something to be religiously observed. e) to give what is due or obligatory, to pay: wages or reward. f) to furnish, endue. 3) to give. a) to cause, profuse, give forth from one’s self. 1) to give, hand out lots. b) to appoint to an office. c) to cause to come forth, i.e. as the sea, death and Hell are said to give up the dead who have been engulfed or received by them. c) to give one to someone as his own. 1) as an object of his saving care. 2) to give one to someone, to follow him as a leader and master. 3) to give one to someone to care for his interests. 4) to give one to someone to whom he already belonged, to return. 4) to grant or permit one. a) to commission.
Of all that is provided above, only a very few could possibly be referring to something being received that was intangible.
The words that were translated into the English “buy or sell” in verse 17, were derived from the Greek “ἀγοράσαι ἢ πωλῆσαι ”, transliterated as “agorazō” and “pōleō”, (Strong’s 59 & 4453 respectively).
“Buy” or agorazō is defined as, “1) to be in the market place, to attend it. 2) to do business there, buy or sell. 3) of idle people: to haunt the market place, lounge there.”
”Sell” or pōleō is defined simply as, “1) to barter, to sell. 2) sellers.”
So I can’t see how anyone can somehow attribute a spiritual sense to what is written within the Word?
If anything I see What God did with Cain, (being the first deceitful murderer), as a form of foreshadowing of this future event.
And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a “mark” upon Cain, lest any
finding him should kill him. Genesis 4:15.
The word translated into English as “mark” above is the Hebrew “אות” transliterated as “’owth ”, Strong’s 226. Its definition consists of “a sign, or signal, a distinguishing mark. banner, remembrance, miraculous sign, omen, warning, token, ensign, standard, miracle, and proof.” All of which would be a tangible and literal sign, the same that I believe the “mark of the beast” will be.
Just my thoughts.
Be Blessed in our Precious Savior Yeshua HaMashiach. Our KING of kings and LORD of lords.
Amen.
the translation that you are relying on is the greek, but you should use the hebrew even for the new testament. ( do not write a lengthy reply)
To All believers
Please let me try and to explain a few things about the “Mark of the Beast” as most today do not understand the Mark at all. This is not a Literal number. The forehead is speaking of your mind and the way you think is how you will “ACT” in your CHAR-ACTER- The Word Pharisee means ,to pierce, sting – They were the killers of the word. The Average Christianity of today is also piercing and stinging real believers for their Loving Character they possess which is the Holy Spirit. The Pharisees were Actor’s as some has said. They absolutely did not think they were just actors but that is what they were. Sons of Perdition and Jesus said they was of their Father the Devil. That means there are two Fathers – You have the right to chose today which one you going to follow.
You either think Carnal minded or Spiritual Minded. To be Spiritual minded is to ”
PHIL. 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: also
ROM. 12:2 And BE NOT CONFORMED to this WORLD: but be ye TRANSFORMED by the renewing of YOUR MIND, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
ROM. 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
ROM. 6:17- But God be thanked, that ye WERE the SERVANTS OF SIN, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
ROM 6:18 – Being then made free from sin, ye became the SERVANTS of righteousness.
Now lets go to Rev. 13:16-17 where it talks about the “Mark of the Beast” Here is the Scripture
REV. 13:16-18 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a MARK in their RIGHT HAND , or in their FOREHEADS :
17. And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the MARK, or the NAME of the beast, or the number of his NAME
18. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the BEAST: for IT IS the NUMBER of a MAN; and his NUMBER is Six hundred threescore and six.
Meaning of the word “MARK” – In Strongs version 1986
The Greek meaning is – #5480 -5481-5482 – etching, i.e. “Stamp as a badge of servitude” sculptured figure – graven mark – #5481 a graver (the tool or the Person) figure stamped as an exact copy – representation – express Image – # 5482 to sharpen to a point – a stake – implying a palisade or rampart(military mound or trench)for protection in a siege
Meaning of the word -“BEAST” – 2342 therion { 2339;
AV — beast — wild beast — venomous beast
1) an animal, a wild animal, wild beast, beast; metaphorically, a BRUTAL,BESTIAL MAN, savage, ferocious — the bestial man is the one that has the “MARK of the BEAST” This should be so simple but the church world has made it so confusing that people every where are not looking for “ Engraving Character” as the mark – They looking out somewhere to find a “Man of Sin” that is going to deceive the World. And it is right in front of us all – it’s the World that hated Jesus Christ – Beastly, savage men, brutal that killed Christ – it was Mankind that killed Jesus. Not Just Caiphas. You see it TO SIMPLE for the great theologians of our day. Just like in Jesus day. Rev. 12 The Great Red Dragon is MANKIND wanting to kill Jesus and His followers. Same today.
Meaning of the word “NUMBER” – from 142 airo
1) to raise up, elevate, lift up – take up — take away
2) to take upon one’s self and carry what has been raised up
3) to bear away what has been raised, carry off
So a MARK is a – stamp as a badge of servitude – we just read that to you above. Who are you serving – Jesus Christ Image – Or Satan’s the serpents Image. Who are you in an intimate relationship with – Jesus or the World – Whatever and whoever you love the most is what YOUR IMAGE WILL BECOME – Buying is desire to have – You are either buying into the Worlds Image or into the Heavenly World of Jesus Christ. You CANNOT buy in both at the same time. Isa. 55:1-3 say come unto me and buy freely.
So the mark is “transforming your Mind into the Mind of Christ” turning your whole man into a “representation” of one or the other. Jesus or Satan – Love for Jesus or Love for the world
The Word “BEAST” – is talking about “MANKIND” Carnal means “animal appetites. Which produces Death and all it’s passions – that is the tree the fallen man and world are eating from.
The word “NUMBER” – Is a RISING UP into one of the TWO fortresses for protection = Mans Palisade – or God’s Palisade. Sooner or later every person has to grow up and make a choice who you gonna serve. Be a taskmaster for. And you will willingly take one of the two roads. Satan has a elevating and so does Christ. Or I could say a Condition of the heart and mind – airo – is two atmospheric realm’s you live in right here on Earth.
Your heart, mind, soul will either live in a EDEN – a heavenly atmosphere – eating from the Tree of Life – This means a Holy Ghost led life.
Or you will raise up and become a child of Hell – cause you let Satan transform your mind by loving the tree of death and sin. Other words you transform into a “Express Image of the World or Of the Kingdom Of God. That is the Rapture and it happens on earth as you “experience” which one you choose to live. A man of God or a man of Sin. So do not worry about some other man of sin conquering you – Take care of the one you living in. That man is you. The man with 666 is the Man of Sin.
You are the Garden that God chose to dwell in. What ever you put into your “garden” will “manifest” an “Image” and a “CHARACTER” either a Godly or Ungodly Image” – Your Soul= passions reflects an “Image”. Every man and woman whether you know it or not. You are creating your image every day by your thought patterns, deeds, ideas, ambitions, passions etc. etc. it has to manifest sooner or later. If you honed out “satans character” you will be transformed into a “fallen angel” by the “god of this world” which is the Image of the Beast. Yes that little Spirit that went into you ate birth is going to be Godly or Ungodly by your choices. Its actually a “rapture” as said in John 10:10-12 – satan will snatch you out of the flock and your will be caught up into the World of Evil. Satan came to still, kill, and destroy = also called – Death, Hell, and the Grave and it comes in that progression. NOTE that after eating from the “Tree of Death” its hell that is next for you – But when – RIGHT IN THIS LIFE YOU LIVING – Hell is a “CONDITION” of being Lost and kicked out of the Garden of God.
Or you can receive Christ the Holy Spirit and let Him “transform your mind, body, and Soul” into His Godly Image — And Live in a “Condition” of abundant Life. We living in the Hour of both manifested Sons – No more partial truths – it’s the fullness of time just like in Jesus day – Just reading all the different versions of any 1 truth is this world today proves we are in the Babylon condition that Rev. 17 and 18 mentions. Mankind’s world is feeling the hopelessness of Life and the suffering of Great Tribulations = Pressure – the wine press.
WHY IS THERE SO MUCH CONFUSION IN TODAYS CHRISTIANITY
Have you ever wondered why most people never talk much about Rev. 10 in Revelation. The Word “Come” means “HE “CHRIST the Mighty Angel CAME DOWN and talked to the 7th. Angel Messenger. That “Voice” opened up the 7 Seals, which are the Thunders, and Revealed the whole plan of God. The People that believed starting eating that Message and is was so sweet going in. But got bitter after awhile by the rejection of manking hating you and thinking you a devil like they called Christ and the Prophet John the Baptist.
THE GREAT SEALS
The Mark of God is the SEAL OF GOD’s CHARACTER —- The MARK OF THE BEAST IS THE SEAL of SATAN’S CHARACTER THAT NEEDED TO BE OPENED so mankind could escape DEATH, HELL, and the GRAVE – Man was in a hopeless condition. The 24 Elders cried over their hopelessness until they seen the Lamb appear. And they seen their escape from the prison of sin and shame. Amen.
THE DARK AGES
Even after the revivals of Luther, Wesley, and 1906 Pentecost they never got rid of the traditions of the dark ages of deceit. They were still many “Mysteries” to become known to the Last Day bride. When Jesus Came the First time HE FULLFILLED the OLD TESTAMENT – and the modern church of that day COULD NOT RECEIVE it whatsoever. They took the “Mark of the Beast” . Jesus said they was of their FATHER the DEVIL. The Temple perished in 70 A,D slaudering 1 to 2 million people that was crowding into the Temple mount for protection. But buildings made with hands is not what God was looking for. He’s not looking for formalities, systems of men anymore. We are the “Temple of the Holy Ghost right now. God is looking for the SEAL=MARK of GOD in their MIND and HANDS that will serve HIM and work for HIM His divine will.
Do we realize that Christ was on the Earth for 30 years and no body knew it.
Then at 30 years old produced miracles, discernments, wonders, and the Pure Unadulterated Word of God.
The Religious world hated John and Jesus. WHY= answer = it was to UNUSUAL and went against all their Traditions. Traditions in Latin or Greek come up to the #666. Everything the modern church taught then had a twist of anti-christ mixed with it. And if mans touch’s it he pollutes the Revelation of “Thus saith the Lord”.
ONLY PROPHETS LAY THE FOUNDATIONS OF ANY NEW MESSAGE. You all need to start looking for “Thus saith the Lord” and quit looking for it in “Knowledge” of how many scriptures you can quote and memorize. The Pharisee’s will top you all in that category. Deeds oh yes they done great deeds but it was for the wrong reason. The had such ZEAL with their excepted doctrines of the multitudes but they was wrong and was ANTI-CHRIST teachings. That means if was false teachings. That seemed so right. But was so wrong.
I never have heard on this forum any body every wondering why the Elijah Prophet of Mal. 4 has not showed up. We already in the Great but dreadful day of the Lord. This Prophet was to “Turn the hearts of the children back to the Fathers FAITH= Faith is a revelation and revealing not just knowledge of a scripture but what it really means. Knowledge puffeth up – But faith sees the truth in another dimension beyond man’s natural brain. It is gave to you by the Holy Spirit.
God bless you all in Jesus Name – Bro. York
“Buying is desire”. Right there you failed. Why did you change the word placed in the Bible with desire? How about changing marriage too? I married, which is desire, or I bulit which is desire.
I’m willing to bet you do not believe the Lawless one declares himself god inside the rebuilt Temble, but the human body which is G-d’s Temple.
We have gone over this subject these last two days. You are welcome to believe as you wish, but I will not join you in misleading others with foolishness.
Yea Leatherneck – your foolishness might come back to haunt you. If what I said is true – which it is – Im sorry for you that you cannot discern such an easy revelation. The Soul is the Nature of the Spirit that lives in you. That is your Mark that God sees. The soul is your passions. If your nature lusts for the world and things contrary to Gods will. And you practice them. Your character will show it on the outside. This isnt hard to understand. I just used my own fraze for the word buy. If I give you a scripture would you believe then. I doubt it. Bro. tom
Hi Tom York,
(Who are you serving – Jesus Christ Image – Or Satan’s the serpents Image.)
that is so true for the true Christian church, they need to wake up.
The children of the kingdom will have the attributes of Christ, which we know for they are written down for us in the scriptures. There are two words which describe God’s children they are CHRIST LIKE.
Then there are the attributes of the serpent children, which we can now recognise in our family members and so-called friends in these end times.
Signs of the serpent children, beastly bodily habits, which they seem to find amusing.
Always wanting to have more than you of everything.
Want you to run after them, they want to be your leaders and want for you to have nothing.
When they speak they lie or speak profanities.
They want you to write, phone and visit them, but will not give you the time of day.
Another sign that has been given to us, is their apparent love of serpents, snakes and reptilians of all sorts. They tattoo themselves, put pictures on their walls and print them on their clothing; they have a love for their father the serpent.
Those of the serpent seed may go to church and say “I repent, I believe in Jesus”, but we must not believe them.
Some of them may be preachers and well spoken of in the Church, but deep down inside of you, you feel there is something very wrong, this is called discernment do not ignore your gut feelings.
Every time we come in contact with the serpent children there is an exchange of energy.”
They feed off our vital energy, leaving us exhausted and drained:
Some people call them psychic vampire they actually feed off your “life force”
They are unable to generate their own “life force”, you know your peace and joy of life which are yours in Christ and so they must feed off yours.
Another reason to keep away and keep your peace.
hi Tom
I would agree that if we are already beasts, and have the beast character in us, that we are already doomed, whether there is a physical mark to confirm it or not.
I still wait to see if a physical mark would accompany the spiritual condition.
Only those who are beasts will accept the larger beast in the world.
Marianne — The beast has to “die” in any one who claims to be a Christian. Or you will never come into the “IMAGE” of God. When you start killing the beast of sin=unbelief . You started “rising” in your “IMAGE and CHARACTER” and when a believer fully dies out to sin and it does not rule him as a servant to his flesh. Then you are climbing up the mountain to Meet Christ at the top and you have raptured. Check out the words in Rev. 4:1-2 and I bet you that you will find that Jesus is saying walk up your mountain John. There is no promise to anyone that is not an “Overcomer” in the Church ages. We all have a Cross to die on as well as did Christ – Bearing our Cross and Overcoming is the “Character of Christ. Paul said I “die daily” but I also know that Paul had Joy and was Full of Glory at the same time. He was not a prisoner to his flesh any longer – His transformation = change had become “complete” . The 7 thunders is a complete revelation of the Mysteries of God. Lord bless you Marianne –
James,
I see that a few have already responded to your comment. Nonetheless here is my 2 cents worth.
First lets define the word “conundrum”.
1) a riddle whose answer is or involves a pun.
2 ) a question or problem having only a conjectural answer. (Merriam-Webster.)
The Gospel is not deduced by guess work, inference or supposition. It is instead a clearly laid out explanation of Gods the Fathers plan of redemption for those that can understand its content through the Holy Spirit. It is comprised solely of the Living Word and of Truth. It is black and white and anything that deviates from the intended meaning of what is written within it, pollutes and perverts it.
Above you say, “if a person believes that Jesus died for his sins and properly repents etc. he shall receive eternal life thru the grace of God, right?”
On the surface I might agree with that statement depending on what the “etc.” is comprised of.
However, I will not expound here at this time regarding what the Gospel explicitly states as being all of our responsibilities as followers of Yeshua.
(The meaning of “Justification”, the ongoing process of “Sanctification” and all that it entails. Justification itself, and its initial cleansing and imputed righteousness ascribed to us on His behalf, is not a “free ticket”. If it were, why would the importance of being an “overcomer”, (in us putting to death our “carnality”, and that of the flesh), have the significance that it does?
With Paul simply stating the importance of “continuing” in the faith, within Colossians 1:23. for him to present us as, “holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: (verse 22), we must “continue” grounded and settled in the faith, (verse 23). Sanctification and walking in the Spirit is the process in which we surrender to Him, and it is that process of surrender which allows for the Father to form us to the image of our Blessed Savior.)
Then you say, “So what if he takes that stupid chip to protect his family and pretends to worship the so-called antichrist just to feed his family. Shouldn’t he be forgiven for that?”
???
Buddy are you not able to discern as to what these times are going to consist of?
Have you not considered that the phrase “Holy Spirit” is not utilized once within the Book of Revelation? (See commentary below).
Are you not able to comprehend as to “who and what” will be ruling at this particular junction of time, and that you won’t simply be able to “pretend” as you say?
Do you really think that God the Father can be mocked?
Do you think that what is expressed within Revelation 3:14-19. (which has a direct correlation to Revelation 6:9-11., 15:2., and 20:4.), is folly?
The price during this particular time to receive those “white robes and raiment, to cover your nakedness” is your own blood. You either accept the mark of the beast, or are beheaded for not accepting it. The “age of grace” that we are currently blessed in being in today is over.
Give your head a shake, God clearly states that there will be no redemption for those that accept this mark as I quoted for you above from His Word.
As I have stated to you before, much of your theology is contrary to the Word, and directly contradicts what is written.
I don’t expect you to comprehend what I have provided below for any others that wish to read it. For the most part I simply shake you off of my feet like dust.
I wish you luck on that Day, if you happen to accept the mark. Remember to pack some marshmallows. 🙂
COMMENTARY ON THE HOLY SPIRIT AND HIS ABSENCE WITHIN THE BOOK OF REVELATION;
Here is something interesting to note; The term “Holy Spirit” is not utilized once within the book of Revelation.
The Greek “πνεῦμα” transliterated as “pneuma” and translated into English as “Spirit”, (Strong’s 4151) is utilized a total of sixteen (16) times in it’s singular form, and six (6) times as a plural.
SINGULAR
Out of the sixteen, singular times, it is used a total of four (4) times in referring to John being “in or caught up” in the Spirit.
These verses would be Revelation 1:10., 4:2., 17:3., and 21:10.
Out of the remaining twelve, pneuma is used a total of seven (7) times as in reference as to “Who” it is that is speaking to John, and to the churches. These verses would include Revelation 2:7., 2:11., 2:17., 2:29., 3:6., 3:13., and 3:22.
The remaining five (5) consist of;
Revelation 11:11., where the “Spirit of life” entered into the Two dead Witnesses.
Revelation 14:13., where John heard a voice from heaven say, “Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the “Spirit”, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.”
Revelation 18:12., where the angel cried mightily with a strong voice, saying , “Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul “spirit”, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.”
Revelation 19:10., where the angel had expressed to John to not worship him after John had fallen to his feet by saying, “See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the “spirit” of prophecy.”
Revelation 22:17., where Yeshua is explaining to John that He has sent His angel to testify regarding all of these things. That He is the root of David and the bright and morning star, and says, “And the “Spirit” and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.”
PLURAL
Out of the six (6) times that “pneuma” is translated in a plural form, four (4) are in reference to the “Seven Spirits of God” which are before His throne. These would be Revelation 1:4., 3:1., 4:5., and 5:6., (this last verse refers to the Seven Spirits that were sent forth into all the Earth.)
The remaining two (2) are Revelation 16:13., which refers to the “three unclean “spirits” like frogs that come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.” And, Revelation 16:14., which clarifies that these are the “spirits” of devils.
Out of all of the twenty two (22) times “pneuma” is utilized in the above verses, the context for understanding is more or less self explanatory, except for perhaps one. I would like to take a moment to reflect upon verse 14:13.
“And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the “Spirit”, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.”
Does not the above verse, (in maintaining the context of the narrative) suggest, or even emphasize, that the patience of the saints, and their opportunity to be “blessed”, (from this point on, (henceforth)), is solely dependant upon their “labours”, and that these “works” will follow them?
What I am proposing here, is that it appears that “the age of Grace” that we are currently under now, has ended. And that the tribulation saints must now prove their worthiness to receive their “white robes or raiment” by performing and demonstrating their faith by works, and by possibly being put to death because of them. Ergo, their own blood and sacrifice for their faith in Yeshua, is now required for their salvation, rather than just their belief.
If we break down the verse within its original Greek text, we can see that this ideology is implied and not without merit.
The English “Blessed” above is translated from the Greek “μακάριος” transliterated as “makarios”, (Strong’s 3107) and it is defined as; “blessed, happy”.
“Henceforth”, or, (from henceforth) is derived from the Greek “ἀπάρτι” transliterated as “aparti” (Strong’s 534) and it is defined as; “from now on. henceforth.”
The Greek word that has been translated into “labours” here is “κόπος” transliterated as “kopos”, (Strong’s 2873), and its definition is as follows; “(1) a beating. (2) a beating of the breast with grief and sorrow. (3) labour (a) trouble (1) to cause one trouble and make work for him. (b) intense labour united with trouble and toil.”
The English “works” has been translated from the Greek “ἔργον” transliterated as “ergon” (Strong’s 2041). It is defined as;
“(1) business, employment, that which one is occupied. (a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, or undertaking.
(2) any product whatsoever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind. (3) an act, or deed, a thing done. the idea of working is emphasised in opposition to that which is less than work.”
(Ergon has also been translated into English as “work” 152 times, “deed” 22 times, “doing” once (1) and “labour” once (1) within the King James.)
And the English “do follow them” has been translated from the Greek “ἀκολουθέω μετά αὐτός” transliterated as “akoloutheō meta autos”, (Strong’s 190, 3326, and 846 respectively). The definitions of these words in order are;
“akoloutheō – (1) to follow one who precedes, join him as his attendant, accompany him. (2) to join one as a disciple, become or be his disciple. (a) side with his party.”
“meta – (1) with, after, behind.”
“autos – (1) himself, herself, themselves, itself. (2) he, she, it. (3) the same.”
I believe that this proposal may possibly be substantiated by Daniel in his prophecy of 11:31-35 as well. Specifically in starting at the end of verse 32 where I have placed the …… designation and the following within quotations.
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate .
32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: …… “but the people that do know their God shall be strong , and do exploits.
33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
34 Now when they shall fall , they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.
35 And some of them of understanding shall fall , to try them, and to purge , and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.”
The above “to try them, to purge them, and to make them white” appears to support that this demonstrative act will be required of the tribulation saints, to therefore make them white. The English word “try” being translated from Hebrew, “צרף”, transliterated as “tsaraph”, (Strong’s 6884) defined primarily as to, “smelt, refine and test.” and to “purge” from the translated Hebrew, “ברר”, transliterated as “barar”, (Strong’s 1305) defined primarily as to, “to purify, select, polish, choose, purge, cleanse or make bright, test or prove.”
Or as it is written in Revelation 6:9-11, (which I believe expresses and correlates directly with the above prophecy of Daniel)….
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. (K.J.V.)
It is my opinion that the end of “the age of Grace” or when believers are actually indwelt with the Holy Spirit by believing and trusting in Yeshua as their Savior, will end at the time of the Rapture or gathering together. To me this is what Paul was expressing when he was speaking of what “withholdeth” or is “restraining”, (the Greek “κατέχω” transliterated as “katechō”, Strong’s 2277) in 2 Thessalonians 2:6.
The definition of “katechō” is; “(1) to hold back, detain, retain. (a) from going away. (b) to restrain, hinder (the course or progress of) (1) that which hinders Antichrist from making his appearance. (2) to check a ship’s headway, i.e. to hold or head the ship. (c) to hold fast, keep secure, keep firm possession of. (2) to get possession of, take. (b) to possess.”
Therefore when Yeshua states in John 6:39. (and in verses 6:40., 6:44., and 6:54. As well as when Martha refers to the same in 11:24) “And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.” that He was referring to the “last day” as being the last day of the current “age of Grace”, and not of that of His Second coming.
I believe that as the parable of the Ten Virgins, (Matthew 25:1-13.) implies that there will unfortunately be some that will be left behind.
This is the context of what is expressed within Yeshua’s epistle to the church of Laodicea in Revelation 3:14-19. as well.
The words that have been translated into English within the King James in Revelation 3:16., as “I will spue thee out of my mouth” appear to substantiate this, if one were to delve deeper into the etymology of the original Greek text.
”Spue” being derived from the Greek “ἐμέω”, transliterated as “emeō”, (Strong’s 1692). It is a verb which is defined as to, “to vomit, vomit forth, throw up.”, or in other words, “to expel from”.
The English “mouth” is derived from the Greek “στόμα”, transliterated as “stoma”, (Strong’s 4750). It is a neuter noun which is defined as, “1) the mouth, as part of the body: of man, of animals, of fish, etc. a) since thoughts of a man’s soul find verbal utterance by his mouth, the “heart” or “soul” and the mouth are distinguished. 2) the edge of a sword.”
What is particularly interesting here is that last definition.
The root word for “stoma” is the Greek “τομός”, transliterated as “tomos”, (Strong’s 5114). it is an adjective and its definition is simply “sharper”.
However, “tomos” is comparative of a derivative of the primary “temno” which means “to cut”, in a more comprehensive or decisive way, “as if by a single stroke”, rather than what its root, the Greek “κόπτω”, transliterated as “koptō”, (Strong’s 2875) implies.
“Koptō” the root itself, is a verb, and is defined as “1), to cut, strike or smite. 2) to cut from, to cut off. 3) to beat ones breast for grief.”, and suggests repeated blows like that which takes place from hacking.
This then leads me to consider Hebrews 4:12. and how it perhaps could be applicable at this future time.
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. (K.J.V.)
For this same sword is mentioned 3 times within the beginning of the Book of Revelation. Once within Johns vision of Yeshua, (verse 1:16.) and twice within Yeshua’s epistles to the 7 churches, (verses 2:12. and 2:16.).
“Watch ye therefore, and pray always , that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass , and to stand before the Son of man.” Luke 21:36. KJV.
We all unfortunately know some that profess to be Christians, yet don’t appear to “walk the walk” so to speak, and have become, as expressed within the epistles of Revelation, complacent in their faith, rather than being “overcomers” of the world, and the flesh.
Yeshua appears to address these “foolish virgins” throughout the Ten Virgins parable, and specifically so within verse 5, “While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.” Though this might not appear initially as being a significant verse, the original Greek would add some insight. All had slumbered and slept, “nystazō”, (Strong’s 3573) and “katheudō”, (Strong’s 2518) respectively, both refer to the act of physical sleep, however, “katheudō” is also noted within its definition to refer to, “be indifferent to one’s salvation.”
Paul exhorts us in 1 Thessalonians 5:19., “Quench not the Spirit.”
Perhaps whether we submit ourselves or not to the Holy Spirit, has a bearing as to whether or not we will be able to partake in this resurrection?
Perhaps it also has relevance to the verse of Matthew 13:12 and to that of my proposal?
”For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.”
Perhaps that is why the phrase Holy Spirit is not utilized within the book of Revelation whatsoever?
Simply some food for thought for others to perhaps consider.
May all be Blessed in the Grace and Glory of our Precious Savior. Yeshua HaMashiach, our KING of kings and LORD of lords.
Amen.
a.
alienated,
Even though I disagree with much of what you’ve said, I really only want to address one thing. That is where you imply that the bible is perfectly clear in what it says. If that were true there would only be one kind of Christianity. No catholic, orthodox, Protestants, etc. -just one big happy church.
But there isn’t, and yet everyone believes they are in the one true church and they can prove it thru scriptures. Clearly this is not the case. Clearly there are many ways to interpret scripture, and obviously some will be right and others will be wrong. I was a big Jack Van Impe follower years ago and I’ve been waiting for his New World Order, One-World religion and chip in the hand for over 30 years. Its always been right around the corner, starting with the rapture, any day now. Only nothing he ever predicted has even started to come to pass yet. Tiny pieces like the new RFID chips which replaced his old bar-code theory, and last week is was yet another supercomputer capable of handling everyone’s banking transactions in real time. And now he’s on this “Chrislam” kick, claiming it will be the new One-World religion.
I don’t know what news you are watching but I don’t see all of Christianity and Islam about to get together and create a new hybrid religion, and I don’t see world governments anxious to hand their populations over to the UN or the Bilderbergs or the Freemasons or any of the other organizations that are supposed to be trying to form a New World Order. And I haven’t read that all of the world’s banking institutions are preparing to turn their customers over to one single giant bank, even If they do have a really cool new computer.
Meanwhile, the scenario that I believe will happen is unfolding on an almost daily basis. All right under the unsuspecting eyes of most of the world. So you will have to pardon me If I haven’t got on board with your predictions quite yet. But believe me, If they ever should happen, I will not miss them. Nor will the rest of the world. So much so that the antichrist couldn’t possibly get away with it. The world would simply revolt against such a thing. Hitler tried it and failed. And while there will be another “Hitler” and he will start WW3, he will not fulfil the prophecy of Jack Van Impe. He will fulfil the prophecy of Daniel and Revelation, just not in the way most people think.
So don’t bother trying to define specific words in greek of even Hebrew, like many modern words, there can be many different uses for the same words depending on the context. As an example, the word “Mark” which many people have tried to convince me must be a real, not a spiritual mark. Yet the King James concordance defines it as simply “Seal.” And we all agree that the Seal God puts on the “foreheads” of the 144,000 is spiritual, so we can easily conclude that the seal of Satan is called a mark – kind of a low-class seal.
So in each of our cases we have proven (to ourselves) that we are correct, and that only time will tell who is right. As you already know, most people will get it wrong and will follow the beast. So I don’t expect to convince very many people. A simple warning is all I’m giving so that when the time comes, some with open minds will remember my words and not be tricked by the beast.
Time will tell about that also, my friends.
Bless.
James,
Well I am certainly not surprised that you would disagree with what I have said above.
However, in addressing the “one” question that you posed.
First, I don’t believe that I said, or implied, “that the Bible is perfectly clear in what it says”.
What I did say was that, “The Gospel is not deduced by guess work, inference or supposition. It is instead a clearly laid out explanation of Gods the Fathers plan of redemption for those that can understand its content through the Holy Spirit. It is comprised solely of the Living Word and of Truth. It is black and white and anything that deviates from the intended meaning of what is written within it, pollutes and perverts it.”
Within Galatians 1:6-8., Scripture itself would confirm the purity and truth of the original Gospel message, and that there are those out there who pervert it.
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. (K.J.V.)
And within 2 Corinthians 11:3,4., and verses 12-15., the specific reason and culprit for this perversion is revealed.
3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. (K.J.V.)
12 But what I do , that I will do , that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we.
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. (K.J.V.)
When “the Way” was established by the Apostles, satan was in the midst of corrupting it then. This is obvious by all of the accounts in Scripture which describe the conflicts and trials that the Apostles went through in having to help the Churches that they had instituted, maintain their walk in the Faith.
satan is Gods adversary and by utilizing his deceitful ways, he has been attempting to thwart the Holy, Almighty Fathers plan for mankind’s redemption and reconciliation since the very beginning.
Obviously this then, should provide the answer to your question as to why there isn’t “one big happy church”. It isn’t necessarily that the message of the Word is difficult to understand, but that satan starting big time with Constantine, (a Mithras and Apollo worshipper), and the Catholic Church has corrupted it for 1800 or so years.
I never said, “that the entire Bible is perfectly clear in what it says”.
Firstly that would be because, “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are Gods ways higher than our ways, and His thoughts than our thoughts.” Therefore His Word is impossible for us as man, to fully comprehend.
However, there would also be other, just as obvious reasons as to why the Word is written the way that it is.
Consider this……. If what was written within the Tanakh was simply an elementary description of what was the history of creation and man, and of what was going to transpire in the future, do you think that satan would have entered Judas Iscariot’s heart to have him betray the Lord?
Not likely!
Since the beginning of creation until this very day, having our Lord be crucified was undoubtedly, the most asinine and moronic feat of stupidity that satan could have ever performed. By his own ignorance and hand, he sealed his own fate and ended up fulfilling Gods overall plan for Victory and to Glorify the Son to perfection. God the Almighty Lord of Hosts had been playing Chess with a “simple speck” of His creation, and had easily “mated” His totally inferior opponent. Amen.
But satan can read Scripture, and knows it probably better than any of us do. He used it against Eve, and to tempt our Lord Yeshua while He was in the wilderness. However he can’t comprehend it. Why is that? The simple answer to that is, because he does not have the Holy Spirit of Truth to interpret it correctly. He is left befuddled and he is the one left with only guess work, inference and supposition to attempt to fully comprehend.
Those that have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit have a distinct advantage and authority over him, regarding many aspects, of which one would be the correct interpretation of Scripture.
Now by that am I saying that I am always correct with my interpretations and commentaries?
No, not a chance. Though I have experienced many unexplainable and supernatural situations in my life time that can not be defined within that of the natural realm, I am simply flesh and blood.
I do however believe in the gifts that I have been blessed with, and seen be manifested, (that have been witnessed by others as well), which leads me to feel secure enough to express these interpretations to others. Time will tell as to whether or not they will be validated.
In respects to the rest of what you comment on within your post; God the Father is not in the least obligated to fulfill our personal expectations regarding His time frame in which He chooses to accomplish that which He will accomplish.
“The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish , but that all should come to repentance.” 2 Peter 3:9. (K.J.V.)
May all be Blessed with the Grace of our Precious Savior Yeshua HaMashiach.
Our KING of kings and LORD of lords.
Amen.
a.
Debvaughn,
Agreed; that is the only realistic conclusion. Let’s be mindful of the many thousands of faithful ones, who have, and will continue to be tortured and murdered elsewhere in the world,; the work of Satan of course, for which his media is not going to publicize. Awareness of this, and the fact that it is surely coming our way, should compel us to find refuge in the LORD as never before.
But nothing can snatch us from Jesus’ grasp, if we truly are one of his sheep,
even if we should lose our life to find it.
“……And surely I am with you ALWAYS, to the VERY END OF THE AGE.”
Matt.28:20
For anyone who believes that there is an escape clause written into the above verse, had better seriously question their resolve to remain faithful to Jesus; come what may. If we are willing, the Lord will see us through…..plain and simple!
Blessings.
Yes, from what I read there are up to 500 a day killed for being Christians. It is happening as we speak. So many people do not realize this. So, I definitely do not believe in the escape clause scenario. I do not consider myself any more worthy of escape than the ones that die daily for Jesus. I am continuing to pray for loved ones that they too will wake up to what is to come. So many have been taught of the false “I am out of here pretrib rapture doctrine” and do not bother to study it for themselves to find out this is false teaching.
Amen!….A must read for every Dr. P.T. Rapture.
The Bible reads one has to swear an oath to the lawless one who walks into the Temple, and declares himself god. The false prophet makes everyone take a mark in order to buy, or sell.
Globalist hate the unwashed Americans clininging to their Bibles, and weapons almost as much as they hate Jews.
G-d gave me a brain to use. So, I have two go bags, an H-harness, and light attack pack. I do not want a conflict. I want to protect my family from evil men, and the growing wrath of G-d in the form of Giant storms, earthquakes, terrorist actions, etc…
If any of you think I should not do as I just wrote, perhaps I can wait also for G-d to earn my money. Meet G-d halfway, and then some. Luck favors the prepaired.
That is known in the Marine Corp, the old Corp, as don’t wait for your mommie to do it for you. To err is human, and forgiveness is Divine, neither of which is Marine Corp policy!
Hi Leatherneck,
No, don’t wait for your mommie to do it for you; have faith in your daddy to make it possible for you! And if G-d gave you a brain to use, and He did give you a good brain, you will notice that He identifies Himself as GOD….please!
I know you are partial to a little humour!
God bless.
As a wortless sinner, I am not fit to write GOD, so I write G-d out of respect.
Later,
Hi Leatherneck,
I too am a worthless sinner, so out of respect I use the title the Most High wishes to be known by; and the one that is the most powerful in all the universe. By contrast, G-d is not even a word, but if you have reason to believe that this is irrelevant to God, and He will, nevertheless hear all who subtract from his Word in this way, then so be it.
God bless.
It will not be writing G-d that sends me to hell. It will be not having the kingdom of heaven inside me. Also known as being born again, or looking on other humans as being loved by that which died for us.
Peace to you Richard,
Leatherneck,
Love and peace to you, also.
I agree in most part. Jesus instructed us to pray to our Father in heaven, who is approachable and desires intimacy with us, and commands that his Holy name be declared throughout the entire inhabited earth, so that all men may get saved. Because it is to be declared, then it is not too holy to be pronounced or written; just as Jesus himself did:
“I made your name known to them, and will continue to make it known, so that the love you have for me may be in them and I myself may be in them.”…..John !7:26
Whatever our understanding should be regarding the correct pronunciation of the tetragrammaton, and the implementation of the various widely used forms of Gods name and title , there can be no justification for concealing, or declaring them too sacred to be pronounced, as Jesus clearly demonstrated by his actions.
To do so is to replicate the unbelief and superstition of natural Israel, for which has no place in the Gospel of Christ Jesus and his Kingdom.
Blessings.
it is just a sign of respect
Marianne,
Could you expound ? Thanks.
christians will capitalize His or Him when referring to God. Also we capitalize god to show it is the one God. This is out of devotion of respect.
jews have similar ways of showing reverence to god’s name as well.
Looks like I placed the above comment in the wrong place, but the sad part is, I didn’t! Answer not required thank you! 🙂
You answered while I was writing my comment; thanks anyway.
Isaiah 12:4. And in that day you shall say praise Yahweh, call upon his name; make known deeds among the peoples make mention that His name is exalted.
Psalms 102:21. To declare the name of Yahweh in Zion and his praise in
Jerusalem.
Psalms 22:22. I make known your name to my brothers; in the midst of the
assembly I praise You.
Exodus 3:15. “And Elohim said further to Mosheh, “Thus you are to say to the
children of Yisrael (Israel), Yahweh Elohim of your fathers, the Elohim of
Abraham, the Elohim of Yitshaq (Isaac), and the Elohim of Yaaqob (Jacob), has
sent me to you. This is My Name forever, and this is My remembrance to all
generations.”
It is good to speak the name of our Creator and Savior.
Hi Al,
Hope you are well!
Good examples, thanks!
Blessings.
Hi Richard,
It has been a while. Hope all is well with you, also. It is good to see you back!!!
Be Blessed my brother
Thanks Al, and the same to you!
Hi alienated, your lengthy complicated reply which is written with the wisdom of the world brings fear, darkness. My understanding of God’s Word brings peace , light, and joy to God’s people. Does Not our Lord say that we are to be a light shining in a dark place. We must never interpret God’s Word in a negative way, for we must be like our Father who brought light out of darkness.
Hi Cornishevangelist.
Well I am sorry that you found my post to be lengthy. But apparently what is written concisely within two verses is not fully understood by some.
I am also sorry that you found it to be complicated, for the process utilized above is no different than looking up a word within a Dictionary to discover its true meaning.
I would disagree with you in respects that this process would be “wisdom of the world” as well, for it would consist of “seeking the truth regarding God the Fathers Word” and would instead be fulfilling that of the first two Spiritual gifts that are mentioned within 1 Corinthians 12:8. (I would provide for you the Greek for “wisdom and knowledge” there, and the definitions of the words themselves, yet I don’t wish to confuse you any further.)
And “Yes”, the inference that this “mark of the beast” should conjure up “fear and darkness” is correct, for the whole of the Book of Revelation itself is a warning as to what is going to transpire in the future when God pours out His Wrath upon the “sons of disobedience”.
You can maintain your current one dimensional warm and fuzzy security blanket theology, and disregard a significant portion of what God has to say, or perhaps grow up within the Faith, place your milk bottle down and accept His Word.
“YES” we are to be a “LIGHT” (Matthew 5:14-16., etc.), but that “light” is to shine amongst the “darkness”. Your understanding, and what in my opinion is a “namby-pamby” theology is fearful to even acknowledge that this “darkness” exists, or if one does acknowledge it, they are interpreting the Word in a negative way.
With that attitude, I wonder what you would actually do if you were confronted with someone who was possessed with a demon?
I suspect that you would simply fold, and not confront it as a Warrior and cast it out through the authority that has been given to us through Yeshua our Lord.
We are all different members of the same body, and I understand that we have different roles to fulfil within that body, however if you ever are confronted by an entity consisting of pure unadulterated evil, I suspect that you would appreciate having a member of Warrior portion of the body at your side.
RICHARD.
Hi, I pray that you are well also. I’ll respond to you here.
I don’t necessarily believe that I am making “points”. I am merely providing the original text, and the correlating definitions to the words, to assist people in being able to understand the correct context as to what is being said.
John most certainly had access, as well as opportunity to utilize whatever words he wished to in recording what he was seeing. However, he was filled with the Holy Spirit at the time. (Rev. 1:10.) Therefore, he was guided to write what God the Father desired him to write. And there is nothing contained within the text itself that would suggest that “the mark” could be anything having “spiritual” connotations. Rather, if we accept the text as it is written by God, we must then accept “the mark” as also being literal. Plain and simple, God states something, I accept it.
In respects to the world populations that you mention. Read what occurs within the first couple of Seals that are opened by Yeshua, and you should see that a significant amount of the current worlds population will be decreased, which then would leave a more manageable number to control and oppress.
I disagree with you that the world itself would have to be in an “orderly” state prior to this “state of control” to fruition. I believe that the state of “fear and chaos” that precedes this time of domination is what fuels satans opportunity.
Scripture itself would also back this premise up. Within 1 Thessalonians 5:3., it is written;
“For when they shall say, “Peace and safety”; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.”
Logically what Paul is implying here with the inclusion of “peace and safety” is that “discord and fear” must have permeated the minds of the inhabitants of the earth previously. This previous worldwide state, is what allows for the “man of lawlessness” to provide the solution, and to make a worldwide covenant. (Daniel 9:27.) God then also causes for these remaining inhabitants, (that did not believe His truth), to instead believe the lie. Which is clearly written, and stated by Paul within 2 Thessalonians 2:11.;
“And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.”
The very fact that the world as we know it is falling apart, is what leads up to the opportunity for this One World Government to be established, not the other way around. (Matthew 24:6-13.)
Just my thoughts too.
May all be Blessed in our Precious Savior Yeshua HaMashiach. Our KING of kings and LORD of lords.
Amen.
a.
brevity and simplicity are always virtues. 🙂
For man is assuredly born in ignorance, so that he cannot know or understand anything of himself, but only that which he receives from God.
Alienated (and anyone who believes the “mark” to be physical)
Hope you are well.
You make some very good points, but am wondering, in view of the world’s population (7 billion), if a physical mark is feasible considering the logistics involved, and particularly if it is technological in nature, which suggests that the system has to be at optimum levels at all times for it to be credible.
The world would have to be somewhat orderly for such a system to function, and we know the opposite is to be the case.
Food will be in short supply anyway, the economy in ruins; along with natural disasters and the inevitability of military conflict, it is hard to see how the necessary regulation and control can be sustained.
Just my thoughts.
Blessings.
Let’s see Richard. Rev. 13:17, and 19:20 does not read as you state. What do you make of that?
Hi Richard,
Just incase you missed it, I responded to you within the body of my reply to Cornishevangelist above.
Be Blessed in Yeshua.
a.
Hi Alienated,
If, for reasons you have stated, believe that world conditions will be conducive to the successful implementation of such a system, that’s fair enough.
Re: Rev 13:16. For the sake of argument, let’s accept that the mark is physical;….why do you think some will receive the mark IN the right hand, and others IN the forehead? Is this significant in any way to you, bearing in mind that the mark is placed IN and not on.
Also, do you see a correlation between this and God’s servants receiving a seal IN their foreheads?….Rev. 7:2-3
Blessings.
Hi Richard,
Again, the word “IN” simply happened to be the choice of the English translators for that verse and for verse Revelation 14:9. as well.
The Greek word that was translated is “ἐπί”, transliterated as “epi”, (Strong’s 1909), and it is defined as, “1) upon, on, at, by, before. 2) of position, on, at, by, over, against. 3) to, over, on, at, across, against.”
Therefore the translators could have very well utilized the word “on” initially. For the word within the King James has in fact been translated as “on” a total of 196 times, or “upon” a 159 times, as opposed to “in” which was translated a total of 120.
Though perhaps the word “in” could still be applicable if a “chip” of some sort, being implanted near the surface of the skin, were the case. This could then leave a “mark” at the point of insertion and technologically speaking, now days, this would be the way to facilitate this economic transaction.
We are for the most part there now. Visa has a pre-paid card where your pay-check is automatically deposited into your account, so the necessity of even going to your bank is greatly diminished. It is not a great leap by any standard of the imagination to then take the next step and to simply get rid of the “card”, and replace it with a “chip”. Many that have no Biblical understanding whatsoever, would consider this “in vogue” and “high tech” and nothing but being advantageous for the user.
In respects to the Sealing of those that are Gods, “the 144,000”, in the forehead within Revelation 7:2,3., the same Greek word was written and used.
As to whether there is a correlation or not, other than God happening to Seal those that were His, where the beast happens to do the same, I really can’t comment regarding that at all.
I hope that this may have addressed your question.
Be Blessed in Yeshua our Precious Savior. Our KING of kings and LORD of lords.
Amen.
a.
Thanks Alienated,
The hand and forehead is significant, but we can leave that for now.
So the scenario is that those who honour God are bereft of any means of making financial transactions in order to survive, on the face of it.
Since you believe that this occurs during a level of global stability, this would suggest a degree of normality that we are accustomed to.
So if it is business as usual for those who accept the mark, then this leaves those who are faithful to God entirely impotent, on the face of it.
As far as I can tell from scripture, there appears to be no reference to the plight of those who refuse the mark, so, do we conclude that death is inevitable through lack of sustenance and medication, or should we expect miraculous secret intervention from God, and if so, what form is this likely to take?
Just imagine seeing your neighbours arrive home with their groceries,
as you sit there sowing your old lettuce seeds; but I suppose if you are still financially solvent enough, you could always get your neighbour to collect your groceries for you; assuming of course that you have managed to remain in your home, and that you are able to purchase electricity, or least water and so on. 🙂
So can we agree on manna from heaven, if the Lord is not to forsake us? Why not! Well, there is the rapture…..get behind me Satan!
I’ll be looking out for the scholar with candy floss and an alienated
demeanour 🙂
Blessings.
Rev. 13:17. Those who refuse the mark can not buy, or sell.
Richard, I do not see where Alienated wrote those who take the mark in a time of stability. It is my understanding after the lawless one rules for 3.5 years, he declares himself god, and requires all to take a mark or elce.
To me, this sounds like a global event that sweeps the lawless one into power where he brings peace. It is a false peace as he fools many this way, and gets the third Temple to be built.
Those who are mislead by a leader who declares himself god will take the mark willingly, and those Christians in the world, but not of the world will be worried/scared/happy knowing that Christ’s return is days away.
This end time period wrath of G-d on the earth will be anything but what we are use to.
If these last few years of storms, earthquakes, and heat are any indication, we are in big trouble. Right now, we have never recorded fires in CO., and the east coast is without power. Strange.
Leatherneck,
I agree, but Alienated does not see it this way, if I am correct, hence the manner of my response. Please see the initial comments.
And goodnight/morning….It’s 4:00 a.m here in London! 🙂
Blessings,
Hi Richard,
Above you say, “As far as I can tell from scripture, there appears to be no reference to the plight of those who refuse the mark, so, do we conclude that death is inevitable through lack of sustenance and medication, or should we expect miraculous secret intervention from God, and if so, what form is this likely to take?”
Regarding a reference to the plight of those that refuse the mark, how about Revelation 20:4. and that “beheading” part?
To me the answer to your question above is blatantly obvious there. Perhaps it was just an oversight on your part?
“And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that “were beheaded” for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image , neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.” Revelation 20:4. KJV.
For those that are the inhabitants on the world at this time, there will be only two choices. You either “worship the beast and his image, and accept the mark” or you are “beheaded”. The only ones that won’t “worship or accept the mark”, are those that have a Christian understanding.
(Other than you perhaps, and those of the same mind set. Good luck with that by the way.) 🙂
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. Revelation 14: 9-11., KJV.
Those that do not have a Christian understanding will gladly worship the beast, being deceived by signs and wonders, (Rev. 13:12-14. 2 Thess. 2: 8-11.), and because they won’t be able to “buy or sell” without having “the mark”, they will gladly accept that as well.
(Go ahead Richard, just step up obediently to the line there.)
Where you say, “Just imagine seeing your neighbours arrive home with their groceries, as you sit there sowing your old lettuce seeds; but I suppose if you are still financially solvent enough, you could always get your neighbour to collect your groceries for you; assuming of course that you have managed to remain in your home, and that you are able to purchase electricity, or least water and so on.”
My reply would be that of Scripture;
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.
10 And then shall many be offended , and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise , and shall deceive many.
12 And because iniquity shall abound , the love of many shall wax cold.
13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Matthew 24:9-13. KJV.
I don’t think that you’ll be sowing any Lettuce seeds during this time. Rather, if you are a Christian, you’ll be too busy trying not to be persecuted.(Rev. 12:17.) And cash or commodities like gold or silver won’t be any good during all of this either. God explicitly says, that you won’t be able to “buy or sell without the mark”, so you won’t have the opportunity to pay for anything, or conduct business as we know it today. Satan through the beast and false prophet is who is going to be running the show and in control.
”Therefore rejoice , ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.” Revelation 12:12.
And if you think that during his reign it will be business as normal, (and humorous as well, by the inclusion of the couple of happy-faces), well I suspect that if and when that time comes, and if you are still here, you might just sing a different song then.
Be Blessed and again good luck with your interpretation. I hope for your sake, you can get satan to agree with you.
a.
Hi Alienated,
You say that all who refuse the mark are beheaded, which means there will be no Christians left on earth before Armageddon, is that correct? Where is it cited in scripture that ALL who refuse the mark will be beheaded? What does scripture say about the days having to be cut short in order that some flesh may be saved…and when Jesus comes to gather his flock, does a flock constitute no one?
Furthermore, I said nothing about not receiving a mark, the issue is whether or not it is a physical mark. Also please consider why some will receive the mark in the right hand and others in the forehead.
Also, the scenarios you described at the end of your comment would have to take place before all Christians are beheaded, I presume?
(Will not be able to respond until late tonight or tomorrow)
God bless you.
Hi Richard,
I’ll reply below where there is more room.
Look for the ********* so it is easier to find.
a.
richard
4 am. yes you are a night owl. isn’t that a hoot?
Yes, but still manged to get 4 owls sleep, before awoken by a hooter! 🙂
Jesus said we could endure to the end, so it must be possible to survive without the mark.
To all.
Regarding the Mark of the beast, this is what the historical catholic church has to say about what they claim their “mark to be”:
“We may according to the fullness of our power, dispose of the law and dispense above the law. Those whom the Pope of Rome doth separate, it is not a man that separates them but God. For the Pope holdeth place on earth, not simply of a man but of the true God….dissolves, not by human but rather by divine authority….I am in all and above all, so that God Himself and I, the vicar of God, hath both one consistory, and I am able to do almost all that God can do…Wherefore, no marvel, if it be in my power to dispense with all things, yea with the precepts of Christ.” — Decretales Domini Gregori ix Translatione Episcoporum, (on the Transference of Bishops), title 7, chapter 3; Corpus Juris Canonice (2nd Leipzig ed., 1881), col. 99; (Paris, 1612), tom. 2, Decretales, col. 205 (while Innocent III was Pope).
“The Pope is of great authority and power, that he is able to modify, declare, or interpret even divine laws. The Pope can modify divine law, since his power is not of man, but of God, and he acts as vicegerent of God upon earth…” — Lucius Ferraris, in “Prompta Bibliotheca Canonica, Juridica, Moralis, Theologica, Ascetica, Polemica, Rubristica, Historica”, Volume V, article on “Papa, Article II”, titled “Concerning the extent of Papal dignity, authority, or dominion and infallibility”, #30, published in Petit-Montrouge (Paris) by J. P. Migne, 1858 edition.
“What does the Roman Catholic Church say their MARK is?”
“Of course the Catholic church claims that the change [i.e. Sabbath to Sunday] was her act, and the act as a MARK of her ecclesiastical authority in religious things.” — H.F. Thomas, Chancellor to Cardinal Gibbons.
“Sunday is our MARK of authority. . .the church is above the Bible, and this observance is proof of that fact” — Catholic Record of London, Ontario Sept 1,1923.transference of Sabbath
Kind of makes you wonder!!!!!
There is no doubt the Universal Church has made Christianty in the image of man. However, if there is only so many on the planet that worship on Sunday, how does this fit Bible prophecy which reads causes all to take the mark?
I read in the Book of Enoch, or Jubilies, (I can’t remember), those who believed in what Noah said were made to go to sleep, and did not have to go through the experience of being drowned. A lot of people are thinking in todays terms. Things can not happen due to this, or that. But, G-d had made the planet, and knew there was enough water to get the job done.
Now, what if things change? An economic destruction, or a large regional war that turns to limited nuke strikes. A man shows up who has all the answers to world problems, and the world regions under GATT give this individual their power. It take said individual 3.5 years to get everything in place, then everyone has to swear an oath to him as the god of this world.
It is just a thought. I do not know how G-d will unfold his plan. G-d used Judus the last time to unfold gaining the keys to heaven, and earth. Judus was one of the 12.
I agree Al, the Pope claims to be G-d on earth, and claims to be able to change G-d’s laws. The Pope will have to make the moon god worshipers change their Friday service of hate to Sunday, and even with all the armies of the world would they change? Would the Jews change? Will folks like us ever follow the Pope now that we know the paganism brought into Christianty by same?
Have a good day,
You are correct Al,
Mark = Idol
Accept the beast’s day or starve
Accept the beast’s day and be passively involved in raising your hand against your fellow man and God.
http://mmoutreachinc.com/seventh_day_adventists/sda_facts.html
This is what Yah says about the Sabbath being a sign:
Exodus 31:13-17 “Speak you also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my Sabbaths you shall keep: for it is a SIGN between me and you throughout your generations; that you may know that I am the LORD that does SANCTIFY you. … 15 Six days may work be done; but in the Seventh is the Sabbath of rest, Holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. 16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations, for a PERPETUAL covenant. 17 It is a SIGN between me and the children of Israel FOR EVER: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the Seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.”
Ezekiel 20:20 “And hallow my Sabbaths; and they shall be a SIGN between me and you, that you may know that I AM THE LORD YOUR GOD.”
Exodus 31:13-17 “Speak you also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my Sabbaths you shall keep: for it is a SIGN between me and you throughout your generations; that you may know that I am the LORD that does SANCTIFY you. -… 15 Six days may work be done; but in the Seventh is the Sabbath of rest, Holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. 16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations, for a PERPETUAL covenant. 17 It is a SIGN between me and the children of Israel FOR EVER: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the Seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.”
Ezekiel 20:20 “And hallow my Sabbaths; and they shall be a SIGN between me and you, that you may know that I AM THE LORD YOUR GOD.”
Definition of SIGN
1
a: a motion or gesture by which a thought is expressed or a command or wish made known b: SIGNAL 2a c: a fundamental linguistic unit that designates an object or relation or has a purely syntactic function d: one of a set of gestures used to represent language; also: SIGN LANGUAGE
2
: a mark having a conventional meaning and used in place of words or to represent a complex notion
Look up the word SIGN in the Strong’s Concordance-it is number 226 in the Hebrew:
These are four words basically synonymous for the word sign-mark, miracle, (en-) sign, token.
I have no problem with the Sabbath being a sign. I have a problem with the Sabbath being a sign for all. Does the Bible read all, or just some?
Hey Leatherneck,
Let me ask you one question; are you a part of Isreal (goy-the nation) or part of the world (goyim-the nations)? We are one or the other, there is no middle ground here. The nations (plural) who do not join themselves to Israel, the people of the covenant (goy-singular) will be judged. I know this is like poison talk to the Church, but it is a basic understanding of who we truly are or aren’t in the whole scheme of things. I am not looking for a protacted debate on this now, just stating what I believe to be the truth. All I am doing is answering your question.
Be Blessed in Messiah
Correction-( the people of) the Nations who do not join themselves to Israel………
I believe I am a grafted part on the vine. The root, and vine is Israel. G-d’s first love.
I am not arguing with you that the Sabbath is a mark. The Sabbath shows we love G-d, and follow his orders.
The lawless one is yet future. He causes all to take a mark in their hand or forehead. You, and James believe this is a symbol of the 4th amendment. Some, believe the mark is a real mark. Something that can be seen, or scaned.
Perhaps, you are correct. I do not know how G-d will mark everyone with Sunday worship as a sign to follow the lawless one. The moon god worshipers will not do it, and those who do not believe in G-d will never worship on Sunday, or any other day. Therefore, the prophecy will not be fulfilled.
If the mark is Sunday worship, or one will be murdered, I write bring it. The Pope, or his guard can not enforce it. Even if the Pope is given charge of the FED, and he states only those who worship him on sunday can have money, I write let’s get to it.
I will miss ice water, as it is very hot here in Texas. One Church here wrote: So, you think it is hot here in Texas. Well, there is one place hotter.
Have a good day,
Leatherneck,
A person can choose to worship YHWH-Yahshua everday of the week and that is not a problem, as long as the 7th day Sabbath is kept. Sun-day worship was put into place to replace the 7th day Sabbath. It was not an option. That is the problem. As a result, even if someone worships on the 7th day, but is not worshipping the Elohim of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob-YHWH-Yahshua, then his worship is of no benefit. Exactly how all of this is determined, we will have to wait and see. It could be as simple as a question when getting your food allotment (or whatever). This is really not all that complicated. Do you serve YHWH=Yahshua-God is our Salvation whom we worship on the 7th day or is it someone else (insert your personal preference of which diety you have chosen to follow, if any, and which day is your day of worship). I am not saying this is how it will be, just showing that this is not all that difficult to accomplish. I don’t mean to make this a bone of contention, just showing that the Mark-the- Seal of Yah’s approval-the Sign has been around since the beginning. Just as the death angel in Egypt knew by the lamb’s blood on the doorpost, who to slay and who to passover. The Mark-the Blood was the sign that the people in that house observed and obeyed the Word of Yah. If someone unwittingly slaughtered a lamb that day and got some blood on the doorpost, but was in disobedience to Yah, do you think the death angel would be able differentiate between the two? Of course. Remember the parable of the 10 Virgins, 5 were wise and 5 were foolish. When the 5 realized they had been turned away, they didn’t have time to make provision. We need to be wise and be ahead of all of this and not wait until the moment for a decision to be made. That is a perilous place to be. It is really not so much the question of Sunday or 7th day worship (this being the evidence or proof) but whether we are in obedience to the Word of Yah or not. This is how I understand and approach this.
Be Blessed my brothers and sisters
There is a bit of logic that you and others have been missing here. The Book of Revelation is not about Muslims, Hindus or Buddhists. It‘s not even for the Jews. It is for and about Christians. God doesn’t care If the rest of the world’s religions keep His Sabbath, He will deal with them during the millennium. He must first clean up His own house and get rid of paganism and Babylon within it. This is the purpose of the mark. The biggest wrong assumption here is that the whole world will follow the beast. It is only talking about God’s world – all the Christians will follow the Vatican beast, and as far as Sunday worship goes, that is already true. No need for a New World Order, One-World Government, One-World religion or Antichrist dictator to take over the entire planet. We are already there, folks. This is fulfilled prophecy. Glory to God, His word is true!
Mess around all you want with word definitions and alternate translations, but you can’t deny facts and history. Argue with me all you want that you think I’m crazy, but at least I can say my interpretation has almost all happened. And If it is all just a coincidence, then so be it, but I’ve calculated the odds of it happening at over 40 trillion to one.
Wake up and smell the coffee! And that goes double to any Jews out there who still can’t see that Jesus was their messiah.
And If the pope can’t get the “whole world” to worship him, how do expect some Antichrist figure to accomplish it? At least the pope already has 1.3 billion on board. Imagine trying to start from scratch. Sorry, but “all” can’t ever mean “fer sure, everyone, dude,” It is most certainly a figure of speech. They had those back in bible times too, ya know.
So please, more logic and fewer definitions.
Thanks.
Bless.
James,
If the Book of Revelation is solely for Christians as you say, why does the word ‘ekklēsia, (or church) simply disappear from the text after Revelation 3:14.?
(I am aware of the exception to the above being Revelation 22:16.) As well, why is there no mention of the “Holy Spirit” either, which is synonymous with that of the church?
Why instead does the text go from an “assembly of people” to that of “saints”, (which by its definition, the transliterated Greek “hagios”), denote individuals rather than of an assembly of people?
I would be interested in hearing your explanation for the above, (based upon Scripture), rather than you simply making statements that appear to be contrary to what many others believe.
I think that you have maintained way too much of the Catholic Church’s teaching of “replacement theology”, than you would care to admit.
a.
I do not understand why you do not believe all means all. What does all mean to you?
Thessalonions 2:8 the lawless one declares himself god inside the rebuilt Temple. Then, the false prophet ,(which is the same individual to you), makes both small, and great to take the mark of the beast, (which is Sun-day worship to you), or not be able to buy, and be hunted/murdered for refusing.
I suppose if all is a mis-translation, then things maybe not as they read. I am no expert in Greek, or Hebrew, so I do not know about this one word. It is important.
Perhaps, the Bible does not mean to read all died in the flood of Noah as well, except Noah, and his family. BTW, I do not think you are crazy.
Is it safe to assume the rebuilt Temple, to you James, is the human body?
LEATHERNECK,
Well, If you are right and all means everyone, then you, and me and everyone reading this blog, and every man woman and child on earth will worship the beast – no exceptions. Then everyone will have the mark – nobody will escape. If all really means ALL.
So therefore everyone on earth, according to some, will be doomed to hell or the lake of fire. Not one righteous person will be spared.
Kinda gloomy, doncha think?
Simple logic tells us that in this case, all simply means most, or “mostly all” otherwise, the prophecy is a useless warning, and all fates are sealed. And as I said, there is a further context. Since the Book of Revelation is a Christian book, all refers only to Christians, everyone else can be left out. The beasts are Christian empires, so we only need to include the Christian world when we read the whole world will wonder after the beast. Pulling in the rest of the planet is just foolish and leads to grandiose explanations like the New World Order etc.
And I reiterate my statemant that the Book of Revelation was written by Jesus for His church. It begins as a series of messages to the early churches in Turkey, warning them that many of them had gotten off-track and displeased Him. It concludes with the same message to the latter-day churches and His warning of the destruction of Mystery Babylon practices still going on. But many people claim the warning is for Islam, America, Hollywood, Las Vegas, Russia, the U.N. and a whole host of other entities, and by cleverly pulling certain verses out of context an manipulating the meanings, they can make a semi-convincing case for all of them. They even come up with lame excuses of why God wants to destroy entire countries. Just ask Adam.
But none of this is clearly defined in the text. They can only be extrapolated from certain words like lion, bear, Babylon, etc. If Jesus wrote Revelation for the Jews or the Muslims, He wasted His time – they are not studying it.
Yes, Daniel was written for the Jews, but that ended at the end of the 70 weeks – at the stoning of Steven. They were given that long to complete their transgressions and embrace the messiah, whom they rejected. After that Judaism was replaced by Christianity and focus transferred to them and away from the Jews. Revelation picks up where Daniel leaves off and takes it into the era of Christianity. Not to say the Jews won’t be involved during the tribulation, Surely the whole world will. But the message of Revelation is for Christians.
That’s what I’m saying.
Messiah was killed at the end of 69 weeks. There is one week to go, and yes this is about the Jews also, or God would not have bothered to tell Daniel. It is called the time of Jacob’s trouble, not the time of Christian’s trouble, for a reason.
James,
I find it fun to write to you.
The world will give the beast their power for one hour. For example, the present global system, or GATT regions.
The Bible states not all will take the mark, and there will be those who survive the lawless ones rule. So, you are not correct in stating all get murdered. But, you already knew that.
The Book of Revelations is the unfolding of G-d rightious love. He died for us, and holds the keys to heaven, and earth. This world system hates G-d the Father, the word made flesh, and the Holy Ghost.
Because of the murder, hate, crimes against children, Homosexuality… G-d wants the world system to repent of their sins. It/They will not. Just like it was in the time of Noah.
I understand what you are writing/saying. I do not agree with you. I do not understand the Bible the way you do, but I will defend your right to believe as you wish as long as you are not murdering, and harming physicaly other beings.
May the Holy Ghost envelope us, and this web site to give us understanding, and love for others as Christ loved us. May Christ come soon for the sake of the children.
I just hope I made my point – “all” can’t really mean everyone. There is a context involved. It is my contention that it also refers only to God’s people, not every person on earth. That’s not much of a jump in logic, and it simplifies the entire tribulation story – no need for a New World Order, One World Dictator One-World religion etc.
While everyone waits for all this to happen, my interpretation is almost completely fulfilled already.
But I will keep an eye peeled for the “Left Behind” scenario, just in case. I’ve been waiting patiently for it for over 40 years now, so I’ll give it a few hundred more years and see what happens.
🙂
if the NWO is not involved, then who is persecuting the saints?
the book of revelation is an extension of the book of daniel, which was written for the jews, so I would assume jews are included in revelation as well.
I agree completely Marianne.
The whole of the Tanakh records the history and exploits of a chosen people, simply because we who are believers and followers of Yeshua have been grafted into Spiritual Israel, (the new creation), does not mean that the Covenants which God has made with the rest of that nation will not be fulfilled.
Nor does it mean that “all” of the other human beings that will inhabit the world during this time, (be they Muslims, Hindus or Buddhists, as well as all of the other world religions that have not accepted the Lord Yeshua as the truth), will not be included during that time in being subjected to Gods wrath.
The Book of Revelation being prophecy, describes coming worldwide events for all of mankind that hasn’t accepted the truth of the Lord as their Salvation. (All that would fall into this category would be classified as being, “sons of disobedience”.)
The belief that the Book is somehow referring specifically to Christians, is derived from the Catholic Church’s belief in replacement theology, which makes about as much sense as the Pope somehow being the Vicar of God on earth.
Be Blessed in Yeshua our Precious Lord.
Amen
Enough about the Mark.
The Mark is a chip a new currency. The American central bank already have this ready. You can be reached from all over the world with this chip(www=666 in old Greek) and it replaces todays Visa and Mastercard etc. If the book Rev will be fullfilled then we will have a time that we must learn to live without money. We have to move out to the Country side and fix our own food.
Soon the money on earth will not have any value and this chip will replace todays money. This doesn´t bother USA since you will burn up before that.Burn Hollywood burn with your detox and silicon life.
Adam,
How about G-d’s speed to those who have lost their lives in the fires. Not everyone in America is in detox, or has breast implants.
You know, some breast implants help those who feel insecure about their size feel better. Not that I have an eye for such beautiful things created by G-d.
Leatherneck
I beleive that God will fire up US because most of Americans are protestants and I beleive that Satan is behind this part of the faith.
So the Jews and Catholic Christians will stand in que to be reborn on earth again and you protestants will be locked in a empty room for ever and ever. Matt chap 7 21-23 is the poeple who calls themselves Christians but aren´t = Protestants.
I said burn Hollywood and not Usa. US will burn too but as a Christian I don´t like Hollywood. Not 1 acter or actress are living in a simple life and gives all their money to the poor ones. Instead they are using unatural ways to look better and shows the young people a bad way of living. I´m almost a Communist so you can understand what I feel for Hollywood. You say some breast implants help those who feel insecure about their size feel better.
now when we are not satisfied how we look like is a way to tell God that we are not happy about how he created us. This society where we have to be perfect will soon die. We are a image of God since God created Adam as a image of himself. So God is our father and thoose who lives here on earth with the idea that they must change what God missed about how they look like are not worthy to live here.
I have told you before that Jesus was living with us and now he is in the Vatican. He has the same ideas that I have.
With that type of logic, one must never try to get rid of cancer, or the flu…
I do not think Jesus will be happy with the paganism inside the Universal Church, and Protestant Churches.
I do not believe Jesus has been sent back to earth by G-d the Father yet, as I have not seen his arrival.
Anyone that did not see the humor in my last post must be insane.
LN
Ok first I thougt that it was humor but then I thought you was serious. I´m speaking 3 languages and I only use my english here on this blog so maybe thats why I doubted if it was for real or humor.
Hi Adam,
The “Mark” is not the root casue; it is rather a result or consequence (a sign if you will) of whom we choose to obey and worship that determines whether we receive the Mark of the beast or not. Those who worship Yah according to His Word will not receive the Mark of the beast, but will be Marked by Yah. All of this goes beyond physical limitations or burdens put on humanity through a dictator. What you are talking about is how the Mark will affect humanity, not the condition of man (the root cause) that causes the Mark to be given in the first place.
AL
Like I said Jesus is living on earth and he told me that first he will have a mission then his power will be given to a muslim and he will shake the nations and many people will be praying to him in hope that he shall stopp shaking the nations. Thoose who prays to him will burn in hell forever. But Jesus thinks that maybe his father will give him a choice that he will hold the whole doom so his power will not be given to a muslim. Jesus will maybe even shake the Christian nations too. Because we are destroying the world with oil and more. So Both are true. The chip and that people will start to pray to a muslim if we will follow the book of Rev.
I give up.
🙂 Too Funny Mark.
But hey, what else can ya do?
(Some people just need a bit more supervision when it comes to making sure that thier medication is taken on time.)
Oy-Vey.
There is a chip required with Obamacare. Yes, a health record / ID chip. Oh, there
Is also discussions regarding such implants
for food stamps too. The FDA approved this chip after ObamaCare was passed and the law required such identification. The Supreme Court decision is based on tax law when there was no tax claim made in original briefs?
All in preparation for the day when “he” is revealed and the abomination of desolation” occurs – that is when a cry is heard (Matthew 25:6), then there is a scramble because believers will know.
Al, your last post is excellent. Light/darkness, milk theology, and confronting demons – all hit the mark (the pun does fit too).
Just re-read days of Noah with the depravity of men and “beast”. Beast as in Gen 3:1. The serpent was more cunning than other (like) “beasts”. So the end times are like the days of Noah. Romans 1:18-32 is the description of such times as Noah and today.
Milk will not be sufficient in the coming months (1 Corinth 3:1-15). The fire that is coming will reveal and “test one’s work”.
Pray, fast per Isaiah 58 and seek God, through Christ our Savior and Lord.
Ezekiel 34:20 is forthcoming too, as we enter into “wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgement of God” (Romans 2:5-10).
Thanks DJ,
To God and Yeshua go the Glory though.
Regarding “fasting” other than in having no choice in the matter, (which was indeed the case in respects to this last one), I think that I’ll hold off from doing that for awhile. (I am pretty sure that my old body couldn’t withstand losing another 40 lbs.) lol.
I agree completely with everything else that you have said above as well.
Be Blessed my brother.
Praise be to Yeshua our Precious Savior. Our KING of kings and LORD of lords.
Amen.
a.
alienated .
“Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?” (I Corinthians 1:20).
Hi Cornishevangelist,
Umm, the context of the verse you quoted is towards those that will perish, believing that the Gospel of Yeshua and the Cross is foolishness.
So I’m afraid that that is not applicable to me personally.
I’ll leave you with these quotations from Scripture for consideration;
“Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.” (2 Timothy 2:15. KJV.)
And….
15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. (2 Timothy 3:15-17. KJV.)
Be Blessed in Yeshua, our Holy Savior.
a.
“How can you say, ‘We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us’? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie”.
Jeremiah 8:8)
Are you stating the Bible is currupted? There maybe translation issues like the KJV before we had the Dead Sea Scrolls. Now, we are better able to understand some things. However, G-d’s intent is clear. Worship G-d the Father, the word made flesh, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
Is the Kingdom of Heaven in you cornishevagelist? Because I get the impression you are trying to start some crap with a brother in Christ.
leatherneck
I think you need to ask Cornish evangelist why he is quoting Jeremiah.
Leatherneck,
Knowing the spirit of the man, it is more likely that he would like to share a Cornish pastie, which reminds me, I haven’t had one of those for while, so may just pop down the road to you Cornish for a decent recipe!
Be blessed.
I did.
Leatherneck WATCH YOUR LANGUAGE THAT IS THE FIRST THING YOU NEED TO LEARN,
FROM YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF THE BIBLE I SEE, YOU HAVE LEARNT NOTHING.
Yea right.
You can not even answer a question. Your capital letters are scary. I am shaking in my size 12 steel shank steel toe jungle boot because of it.
Those who have no arguement scream. I see from your post, I was correct in my above post.
My you find peace cornish. Evangelist?
Thanks for wishing me peace, you are learning, just takes time, but you will get there.
leatherneck
You lost me. Cornish has not said anything so negative that he should be chastised.
He quoted Jeremiah, which is the Word of god. I do not see where he explained why he did this, so maybe this should be explained.
But I do not see the cause of this argument anywhere, unless people are misinterpreting what is said as something personal when it isn’t.
Jeremiah is quoted to show the Jews currupted the law. Let Cornishevangelist explain his reason for doing so. It is a question he does not answer. Just a question.
******************************************************************************************
Hi Richard,
Where above in my last response to you did I say, “all” will be beheaded?
What I said is that there will be “two” choices.
So “NO” that is not correct., and it is instead, you making an incorrect assumption based upon a word that was never presented in the first place.
Within one of my responses to James, (which is posted above on June 28th. @ 8:50 pm) I provided an in depth study titled.
“COMMENTARY ON THE HOLY SPIRIT AND HIS ABSENCE WITHIN THE BOOK OF REVELATION;”
I ask that you please take the time to read its content, for the fulness of scripture is majestically interwoven and therefore the subject has relevance to this topic of discussion as well.
You will note within it, a quotation of scripture from Daniel 11: 31-35.
31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate .
32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong , and do exploits.
33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
34 Now when they shall fall , they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.
35 And [some] of them of understanding shall fall , to try them, and to purge , and to make them white , even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.
Above you hopefully will see that there will be those that know God. (These would be the inhabitants that are on the earth during this time that are aware that Yeshua is their Salvation, (or as stated above within my previous response, have Christian understanding). These having this understanding will “instruct many”, (or inform people of the truth of Yeshua, (the Gospel), and the dire consequences of receiving the mark). Yet these Christians will be persecuted, (the remainder of verse 33, which within what is said suggests that “some” will fall by the sword, whereas others will be persecuted by other means).
The translated English words for, “yet they shall fall”, (verse 33), “Now when they shall fall”, (verse 34) and “And [some] of them of understanding shall fall”, (verse 35), are derived from the Hebrew “כָּשַׁל”, transliterated as “kashal”, (Strong’s 3782). It is a verb and a primitive root and does not necessarily mean to “die”, though it could, based upon numerous references made within Revelation which states that many will. (See Revelation 14:13. for just one specific example) The definition to maintain what could be the correct context here could also be, “to cause to stumble, bring injury or ruin to, to overthrow.”
Nonetheless, I can’t change your mind from any possible preconceived errors that you may or may not hold to. Only the Spirit has the power to do that.
If one approaches the Word of God believing that they possess a complete understanding and are not even willing to entertain another interpretation, (like the Berean’s were), then their own pride stands in the way of receiving any new knowledge.
When I study the Word personally, I pray that I am open to the Spirit, and have had to discard much of what I had previously believed to be true over the years. With that, I have also seen much of what were previously pieces of the puzzle that didn’t quite fit, fall neatly into place.
All I do here is express what my years of study, (40 plus) have revealed. Perhaps the above study that I have asked for you to please read, will lead you to question some of the things that you currently believe?
Be Blessed as well, (and I hope that we can leave the condescending attitude in the past). We are all on the same path in searching for Gods truth.
a.
Hi Alienated,
You said in your comment: July 1, 2012 at 5:32 am.
“For those that are the inhabitants on the world at this time, there will be only two choices. You either “worship the beast and his image, and accept the mark” or you are “beheaded”. The only ones that won’t “worship or accept the mark”, are those that have a Christian understanding”.
You have effectively stated that refusal of the mark incurs beheading, if so, all Christians who refuse the mark are beheaded, thereby leaving no Christians to be gathered up when Jesus comes.
I have misinterpreted your words, then kindly disregard the ensuing comments,
and accept my apologies!
Be blessed.
I can not write for Alienated, but I agree with what he wrote to you about Christians being beheaded.
There will come a time 3.5 years after the Temple is rebuilt that the lawless one declares himself all things to all people. Everyone will have to take a mark to buy, and sell. Those who do not take the mark will starve, and be hunted.
Once found, they may be given another chance to take the mark, if they state they worship G-d the Father, in Christ’s name, and can not worship another some will get beheaded.
They are the siants that were murdered for thier faith. They were beheaded.
If I am alive when the lawless one declares himself god, I know it is time to stand strong in the Lord, and not be weak. It is better to lose your life, than to lose your life, and soul.
Alienated has stated Bible, and verse that proves my words. I do not understand why there is a problem. On very few examples, I believe as Alienated has written. Therefore, he, and I must come from the same type of folks that landed in America. When I do not agree with him, it bothers me not.
Pagans showing up, and spouting misleading information is one thing. give them the turned cheek twice, then throw the Bible at them. But, with your fellow brothers, and sisters in Christ, let us show love as Christ loved us.
my impression is that the tribulation is survivable…..jesus said endure to the end and we would be saved…..either through miraculous provision, or planning ahead not to buy and sell……maybe we use supplies to barter for what we want.
To all,
In my sincere effort to remain obedient as a servant of Almighty God the Father, I feel that I am to utilize this venue to express many of the things that I have experienced lately. This I have already done to a certain extent on various pages of this forum. And since what I am going to reveal now, at this time, has relevance to the current topic of discussion regarding “the mark”, I see no need to wait any further.
Some of you are aware that I have just recently returned to me…… being me.
(The length of my posts being just one example of this occurring. This will also be lengthy and I apologize for that in advance. Sorry.)
For another conformation of this, all you would have to do is read some of my recent posts on the “Rapture and the Church of Philadelphia” page, or on the “144,000 and the 2 Servants” page, where those of you that are familiar with me, will notice a distinct transformation taking place.
I have no doubt in my mind, that I have just recently returned from having a Divine encounter with God, our Lord Yeshua and Holy Spirit.
For those that are not familiar with what I have recently experienced and come back from, allow for me to briefly explain as to how it came about.
First though, I am more than aware that there will be those that will scoff, and that my personal sanity may be questioned, let alone being able to maintain any credibility here at all. However, I am not concerned about that one iota. I would much rather be obedient to God, than have any cares regarding my personal earthly reputation. I will therefore be obedient, and leave the consequences in His capable and majestic hands.
On April 15th. of this year, I had felt that I was supposed to leave this site and posted a message regarding that on the “Church is Stuck Inside” page.
After receiving a few “farewells and I’ll miss you’s” from a couple of dear to my heart people, I responded with a reply where within it I stated, “There is a sense of sorrow within my heart regarding this decision, (though I don’t believe that the decision is entirely that of my own).”
I had no idea at the time, just as to how prophetic that statement would be.
On March 15th. of this year, I had my 40 year anniversary in being “born again”, and approximately 10 days after posting that reply of April 15th., I had decided to make a few specific comments to some of the participants here before my final exit.
However, while in the process of doing that, I felt the Spirit rise and quicken within me, and I started to experience Visions while sleeping, and upon awaking, I was lead away to a subject of study that was entirely different from what it was that I was compiling. I had no personal interest at the time regarding this subject and had wondered why I was actually conducting it, though I did trust in the Spirit and the process.
It was then during this process of study, that I believe that the Spirit had revealed to me the solution regarding Daniels interpretation of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream. (Which I have previously posted in part, on the “144,000 and the 2 Servants” page dated, May 18th. @ 3:20 pm.).
(Now prior to this, approximately 10 months or so, I had been in the process of writing a book regarding the Resurrection, (or gathering, more commonly referred to as the Rapture). I couldn’t begin to estimate the number of hours that I had spent over the course of a year, in compiling information and delving through scripture in seeking the truth. (I literally have stacks of hand written information and computer stored data.) Yet while in the process of writing, the thought occurred to me, “Who am I?”, and what if I am propagating falsehoods in respect to the Word of God? So instead of continuing with the book, I instead placed it upon a shelf, (so to speak), and waited on God through prayer regarding it.)
So in now believing that Daniel’s interpretation of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream had been revealed through the Spirit, I heard a distinctly different voice than that of what would be referred to as our internal dialogue make the following statement. “Now that you have the answer to what was previously a mystery, you could place it within your book and have it add credibility to the rest of what you had compiled. This could then provide you with financial security for your future.”
Due to the state of my being, being quickened, being overwhelmed in awe and rejoicing in praise during this time, I understood this to be the voice of the Lord. My response from my heart to this voice was the following, “No my Lord. Though you know that I have spent hours on that book and would deeply appreciate being delivered from my current state of poverty, this was revealed to me freely and should be shared freely for the edification of the Church.”
The following day I started to make good on that promise, and began writing out a letter of introduction that could be emailed out to various Churches regarding the information, when again I was lead to something completely different. I was compelled to re-translate Revelation chapters 17 & 18.
(This is also posted on “144,000 and the 2 Servants” a couple of posts below the other one referred to above, on May 18th. @ 3:45 pm.)
It was then that a connection regarding Daniels interpretation of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream, and these specific chapters was revealed.
For those of you that may question as to whether all of this was simply happening in my head at the time, or that I had perhaps simply blown a fuse, I offer you this for consideration. While explaining to a close acquaintance what I was seeing in these Visions, and what I had been lead to study and as to what had been revealed through that process, he had made the confession to me that while listening and looking into my eyes, he distinctly saw them turn into flame.
It was then after all of this that I had another Vision on Monday, April 23rd. @ 3:30 am. This has been posted, (though not in its entirety), on the “Rapture and the Church of Philadelphia” page on April 30th. at 1:05 am, directly below it at 1:38 am. and a small correction below that at, 1:53 am.
This was a Vision regarding Revelation 1:3 and the Spirit lead me to re-translate that verse, (as well as a few others regarding the letters to the churches within Revelation), based upon the Greek and the definitions of the original and root words.
Now, where the relevance to all of the above applies to “the mark” is this.
(First I was definitely in the Spirit. During the day I was walking around my city, laying hands on people that I didn’t know and speaking Gods truth to them and seeing their eyes well up with tears. Healings also occurred. God also blessed me with having people that I have prayed for for years to be saved, to finally come to the truth of our Lord Yeshua. And in speaking with them after the fact, I have been told that the defining reason for their change of mind and acceptance of what I had been witnessing to them for years, was that they could feel the Spirit flow from me into them. I went through a 40 day fast which was not of my choosing, but was instead that of the Spirit. etc. etc. There is ample evidence that I could provide to further substantiate that this was indeed a Divine encounter.)
So getting back to “the mark”. I awake one day and instead of turning on some praise music like I always do, I turn on the T.V. And right away I witness an individual speaking about how in Japan, they will be introducing within the next month, a new way to facilitate A.T.M. transactions by simply waving your right hand over the machine. That you will no longer have to pull out your card and insert it like we are all used to doing, instead it will be all done by simply waving your hand over it. This I believe, is referring to “the mark” that is spoken about within Revelation.
This was on a major News network in my area. Global News, Vancouver, B.C. Canada.
I thought that every Christian that was watching this would be blown away! The segment is called “Tech Talk” and is hosted by a couple of different people when done live in studio, but these that are pre-recorded segments appear to be done by one specific individual. Though I can find nothing on the net really, as to who all of these hosts are?
After this occurred I searched the Internet for further information regarding it. “Nothing!”
As well I searched for other Christian sites that may have also seen similar content and were talking about it. “Again nothing!”
This therefore leads me to believe, that it also was a prophetic Vision of sorts.
Having seen this young man, (somewhere in his early 30’s), do other segments on the News in respects to other technological products since then, I have noticed that his age difference was not negligible between what I witnessed in the Vision to what it appears to be today. So I believe that this will happen sometime over the next couple of years or perhaps even sooner.
Again I could care less about my reputation or credibility here. One day I will stand before my Holy Judge and Savior, and I would much rather be found to be obedient to Him, rather than to care what man may think of me.
But due to all of the above, I suspect that something very significant is very close, and that the overall time for life as we currently understand it now, is very short.
To those that read and receive this with an open heart, I thank you, and may you be blessed.
To those that now simply believe I am a nut-bar……. well I really can’t blame you for that. If I hadn’t experienced all of this myself over these last 3 months, I would probably feel the same, and also find it difficult to believe. I have seen enough of Matthew 13:57. take place over the last couple of months to be able to withstand a bit more. “So be it.” Amen.
Any way’s,
To all I wish for you to be Blessed in Yeshua our Precious Savior. Our KING of kings and LORD of lords.
Amen.
Love,
a.
dear alienated.
I checked the page 144,000 and the 2 servants. I cannot find any comments from you on that page. Can you send me a copy of what you posted, if you have one, and I will make sure it is posted.
I enjoyed your post, and agree with you on 99% of what you wrote.
due to the weather these last few years, and this past week, I am very worried for women, and children.
If I read you correctly, you were in the Spirit when you saw the hand wave over the ATM. But, you know, one must swear to the lawless one first before it can be the mark. Right?
Hi Mark, (Leatherneck)
Yes I believe that you are correct with that statement. Perhaps this will be the precursor to the mark? I can’t say with any certainty?
All I can do is relay what I saw.
God did not do all of this simply for my benefit, (though I have been surely blessed for it occurring), so I feel that it is my responsibility is to share it with others.
I am also aware that Covenants were made between Him and I, though the knowledge of what they consist of has been tucked away, and I can’t recall any of the details. Remember a month or two ago I was commenting that I may have to die for the sake of others? Though I can’t explain to you as to why, I still feel that this is a distinct possibility. And if that indeed is the case, then that is the purpose for my creation before the foundation of the world, so who am I to not fulfil God’s Will? Lets get with it, I want to go Home and get off of this rock any way’s.
Too much occurred to fully understand it all. Much of which is simply beyond my capacity. But as far as I am aware, I have now expressed everything that I can recall here on this forum, and I can rest in my obedience.
Thanks for your comment and support Mark. It is appreciated for there were far more that didn’t even consider one iota of it, than at least considered it all.
Be Blessed in Yeshua our Precious Savior my brother. Praise our KING of kings and LORD of lords. Amen.
a.
I’ll be watching. Canada is not known for murdering Christians just yet, but the moon god worshipers love it.
Break a leg,
Mark
Leatherneck and all,
Okay I was just able to track down an actual “video clip” of what I saw when I turned on the News when getting up on May 2nd. 2012.
(It obviously wasn’t a vision then, since this time I was awake and up, rather than in a deep sleep).
It can be found at the following link;
http://www.globalsaskatoon.com/pages/story.aspx?id=6442609931
Scroll down, (if the link doesn’t take you to the exact clip), to May 2, and play the clip directly under, “Flying cars may not be that far from reality along with changes in ATM technology.”
Praise Be to the Holy Lamb our Precious and Glorious Savior.
Amen.
I read Syria attacked Israel in 48, 67, and 1974. If they attack again it is my understanding the fate of Damasus will occur. Five aircaft carries are in the Persian gulf, and that many assets cost to much to stay on station long.
If Syria uses it’s rockets to hit at Israel, trying to get Israel involved in a war which causes the global government heat to move off Syria, a destroyed Damasus may cause a large regional war between Israel, and it’s moon god worshiping neighbors.
Iran has terrorist teams inside these United States according to the CIA. If a regional war turns global through terrorist actions would the world desire a man of peace?
If the WTO gave it’s power to one for an hour the above stated ATM technologies may be useful.
I smell war, and it appears this world system ruled by Old Knob is creating a united enemy of Israel rulled by the Muslim Brotherhood. The US is helping this occur. Our we paying for it in strange/harsh weather?
Leatherneck,
All very possible. (This could be the Goat and Ram scenario recorded in Daniel?)
However, God Almighty is Sovereign my brother, and if we are faithful we are His, and nothing can snatch us out of His hand.
We are definitely living in some interesting times.
Keep the Faith, and maintain your Trust and lets watch it all unfold.
Praise be to Yeshua the Holy and Worthy Lamb.
May God the Fathers will be done.
Amen.
Love,
a.
The Word of God is about deliverance and restoration through the redeeming sacrifice of our Lord Jesus, and is the message we should be preaching above all other things.
We know there are to be beheadings, and persecutions on an unprecedented scale, but we also know that God is to demonstrate His power of deliverance on an unprecedented scale.
The details are important but should never detract from the message of hope and victory though faith in our Lord and Saviour Jesus, and the desire of his and our Heavenly Father to make all things new.
In Christ Jesus there can be no fear, no defeat and no loss.
Have faith and fear not, for the Lord is ALWAYS with us to the VERY END of
the age….. Matt 28:20
No Alienated, I for one do not simply believe you are a nut-bar, in fact, I find it extremely difficult to believe you could be that tasty, and I speak for myself and every other nutter on this site bar none.
Whatever you do, you are sure to be blessed. Stay safe in our Lord and Saviour Jesus, and see you THERE!
Thank you Richard,
Though you and I may not agree on some of what is written within Scripture, I agree that the “message of hope and victory through the blood of Yeshua our glorious Savior” should always be our priority, and flow through us as living water.
As I said to Mark above in my response to him, so much happened over the course of the last 3 months that was completely unexplainable in the natural, that the whole of it is simply beyond that of my comprehension. Therefore since I really don’t have a clue, I am left with simply placing all of my trust in the Father.
He knows all of the “whys”, and never does anything without intent and purpose, so I will find the answers to my questions when He wishes for me to know.
Thanks. I’ll stay safe in the Lord. (You too.)
All of us that adore Him and have surrendered to Him are in the most comforting and secure hands. I don’t think that we really have the capacity to fully understand how true that is. He is Faithful beyond measure and will never forsake us.
Be Blessed in Yeshua our Precious Savior my brother. Praise our KING of kings and LORD of lords. Amen.
a.
Thank you Alienated,
As we say here; “you are a scholar and a gentleman”, and may I add,
a deeply sensitive man; a quality misunderstood, but nevertheless, very powerful and endeared by God, but loathed by the world and Satan, because of it’s power. This, together with love and empathy, constitutes the mind of Christ, which, as we know, the world despises; and unfortunately, very few of us are going to come close to this disposition we should be aspiring to, because there is a lot of suffering to do along the way; and few of us are prepared to suffer as Jesus suffered.
I trust you may be one of such on this particular path, so my heart and thoughts are with you, because, let’s face it, it can be darn lonely at times; but this is all part of the cost we are to count, knowing that the reward is to be immeasurable; and you are man who is prepared to count the cost!
God bless you Gregg (alienated).
Richard,
Seems you have the instincts of a sleuth!!!!
A sleuth! You’re kidding aren’t you Al?….I’m only repeating what alienated told my to say! 🙂
Nothing but fun and games!!!!!!
It’s a balancing act with sobriety as pivotal..all to be taken in good heart!
I think you have spoken well and honestly. I will bear this in mind when approaching my brothers and sisters in the Christian Church. Thanks for your honesty!
“It’s a balancing act with sobriety as pivotal..all to be taken in good heart!”
Barukh ata Adonai Eloheinu melekh ha‑olam
Hi Richard,
Thanks, but I am most certainly nothing special at all. (One of the very least at best.)
I actually sort of had this conversation with God when all of this started happening. I had expressed to Him that I didn’t believe that it was really fair that He chose me to work through for whatever the full purpose of all of this was.
That is because of the reasons in my life, that have made it so easy for me to completely, (to the best of my hearts ability), surrender to Him.
I don’t have any family left to either have responsibility for, or spend time with. All of my past long time buddies have already passed away, and due to a back condition, I currently live on a disability pension which doesn’t allow for a lot of entertainment. Consequently then, I spend most every waking moment with God, either in study of the Word, or in praise or prayer. The Lord is now literally, my very best friend.
But even with that, I am more than aware of all of my shortcomings, and suspect that tens of thousands if not more, would be more deserving.
However, He didn’t really offer me a choice. lol. One minute you are simply your plain old self, then “wham” my gift of discernment goes into hyper-drive.
At that point you are more or less just holding on during the awesome ride.
But again thank you. I will, if prompted, keep everyone with an open heart up to date if anything new transpires or presents itself. And it is nice to know, (though I was more than willing to accept any and all negative consequences regarding this), that not everyone has just tossed all of this in the garbage, and that there are those that still believe that God is indeed alive, and still works awesomely in many of His children.
Take Care and be Blessed my brother, in the truth of Yeshua our Precious Lord and Savior. Our Glorious KING of kings. Amen.
Gregg. (aka. alienated)
Oh, there is another thing that I am sure that I have mentioned somewhere on this forum, but will mention here again.
I believe there is a duality of purpose in respects to the Vision regarding Revelation 1:3.
(I saw the whole verse as written within the King James, with the last 5 words “the time is at hand”, larger and vibrating and shimmering, before I heard an audible voice almost scream them out loud with authority. Which woke me up just freaked right out. I was then prompted to re-translate those last 5 words by utilizing the original Greek, and the root words into, “for the time when things are brought to crisis, and the decisive epoch that those that are close to God have waited for is now.”) Which leads me to believe that the time is short.
But there is also this.
Both the Book of Daniel and the Book of Revelation are somewhat sealed till the end times. (Daniel 12: 4 and 9, (10*) and Revelation 10:4.) However, if Revelation 1:3. is indeed “now”, then that would correlate to Revelation 22:10 and what HAD been sealed, would NOW NOT be sealed.
This would then allow for the latter portion of Daniel 12:4 to come to fruition. And in essence for John to prophecy again, (Revelation 10:11.).
It is my hope that many worldwide start to fully understand these two Books, and that knowledge regarding them is increased to edify the Assembly, (Ekklēsia).
Praise be unto Yeshua our Precious Savior. Our KING of kings and LORD of lords.
Amen.
a.
I can see where “the time is at hand” actually means “later, not now,” since that was written 2000 years ago.
Jesus also says at the end “I come quickly!” and that seems ironic also, since that did not happen 2000 years ago either.
I think things are being unsealed at this time.
Marianne,
You help make my point about the word “all” here. You can’t take every word too literally. Words like all, soon, at hand, forever etc are relative terms (as I once stated in my theory of relativity :)).
And as to your question:
if the NWO is not involved, then who is persecuting the saints? (which I couldn’t find above), it is the beast who persecutes the saints. This beast is and will be the Vatican led by the false prophet, the next pope. (Sorry Adam).
The persecution will be forced disobedience of God’s laws along with a host of pagan practices. In the dark ages this prophecy was fulfilled as the inquisition and over 50 million saints were killed – burned at the stake and beheaded. The prophecy is dual, but in the future it may not include additional beheadings. But God will punish them with the 7 last plagues and the destruction of Babylon (paganism). God is not going to destroy a banking system – He will destroy all that is apostate in His church today. And He is not concerned with the rest of the world – only His people. The two witnesses will correct the Jews on their big mistake and the rest of the Christian churches will be cleansed before the marriage to Christ.
I don’t care what you may believe about a New World Order, Antichrists and Islamic kingdoms. What I just stated MUST happen before Jesus returns. It is just common sense. You don’t need a bible to figure that out. So how come God forgot to mention something so important and instead concentrated on how He is going to destroy Islam, or the U.S. or Hollywood or whatever? Even If He is, shouldn’t he warn the church that it’s going to get its ass whooped If they don’t straighten up?
Well, maybe He did. Maybe that’s what the whole Book of Revelation is really about.
Read it again and keep that in mind and maybe you will come to a new conclusion.
Don’t just read the words of God – read His mind. Ask the question, “What would Jesus do?” What will He change when He returns? Should we anticipate these changes and prepare our lives now for life in the Kingdom of God?
Yeah, that sounds stupid I guess. As long as we don’t fall for some guy pretending to be God, we’ll be fine. But why is God so mean? Be true to Him or die of starvation or beheading. His test is too hard.
I think I’ll go invest in some guillotine stock.
Bless.
I guess we will see soon. I think Islam, the vatican and the NWO are all in bed with each other. You either belong to the devil or God.
Well, if anything happens in that bed with the Pope, the all seeing eye and Islam, then no need to worry, as we will only be contending with Popeye and seventy two virgins..too much for one old man, no matter how much spinach he can consume with ‘is lam and “chips”. 🙂
Hope you are well James.
you mean Pope – eye?
and (his) – lam(b) would be a false lamb, and
his chips would be chops!
so much for dinner
Sound like the mark of the feast to me. No thanks, will grow my own! 🙂
I agree Marianne….
Sister Marianne and Deb and Richard etc.
Don’t the Vatican have daughters – the Bible says so. they are all babylon. Dead churchs and the “glory has departed” from them. Then why do you all still want to teach their doctrines. Marianne I sent you a teaching on the 7 years. You acted like you really believed what I said. Thier is not a 7 year tribulation coming. I noticed today you back to believing there is a 7 year tribulation. Why is this – because multitudes believe this and you have heard this all your life, and it is hard to really shed your self from tradition. Don’t get mad sister. I know how hard it is. But once you see the folly of all their ways.
Why cannot man or woman read the story of Jesus and Apostles and figure out the anti-christ. Who was it that killed Jesus – it was the Apostate Church’s all of them in agreement on their doctrine to kill Jesus Christ. Them same church’s led them away from Christ and into Apostasy and that was the “Mark of the Beast” as well. They could not except anything NEW in their age. Its the same with most all people today cause of the great apostasy that we are living in. Rome and Her daughters are sorceries, witchcraft that decieve the whole world. Rev. 18:23 says it plain the Bridegroom and the Bride shall be heard NO MORE at all in thee. Try to tell the multitudes the truth today. You cannot even get them to talk to you hardly. They think you are mad and hath a devil just like Jesus day.
The apostate church does NOT HAVE the ENGRAVING CHARACTER of Christ mind and Love and Grace and wanting to please HIM and BE Just like HIM the best they can. They do not study, they do not pray, they do not possess the Holy spirit that would led them to ALL TRUTH. Because it is a mystery still to their Pastors who want nothing to do with it. It would put them out of a job. You have to resist being popular and going with the multitues. The Church in Jesus day went to Rome for their judgement. It’s happening right now in Protestant church’s including Pentecostal and no body seems to know they are Decieved by a seducing spirit.
Their “Image comes by their false teachings and doctrines of devils that seduce every member of any organization. Paul ask the Galations “who has seduced you O Foolish Galations who hath bewitched you that ye should not obey the truth. Are you so foolish? having begun in the Spirit; are you now made perfect by the flesh. Have you suffered many things in Vain – Christ the same yesterday and today and forever. People hated Jesus, hated Paul, hated the Apostles, that was the multitudes.
Most people pick up a religious spirit in church, some pick up the spirit of the pastor and make him like a Pope. They have a Baptist spirit, Pentecostal Spirit, Catholic Spirit, on and on and on.
Notice though they do not have the “Image or Character” that Jesus had. Oh yea his family even called HIM mad. The church called HIM a devil.
Believer’s do not want to be different just to be different. I do not have an indifferent Spirit just cause I want one. People you talk to make you that way. Im for you not against you. But Like I said once before – listening to all this denominational teachings is not going to lead you into the “Deeper Truths”. Thats why Jesus, John, Apostles, Paul, Luke, all Prophets etc, etc. did not belong in denominations of their day. Jezebel hated Elijah -why- cause he told her the truth. She represented the church of Israel and it finally overcame Judah as well and they all fell in the Anti-christ ditch of hell.
When we go through the Vallen of death – they be only one going through it with you and that is Jesus. People can call me what they want. Im not popular, all my family is Pentecostal and I was for 10 years but I seen it for what it was. Not the same Pentecostal message of Acts and Apostles and Paul. Got to go. Lord bless you all – I love people and for that cause I MUST tell you the truth. Bro. Tom —- It is still a “Mystery – Christ in you – worse than ever Col. 1:17
Tom
There is a daniel final week. However, the great tribulation is only 42 months, or 3 1/2 years. this is the time of Jacob’s trouble.
There is a period leading up to the 42 months, where the signs are there that Jacob’s trouble is imminent.
The Bride, who is already tested, will escape, but most have not taken on the character of Christ and still belong to the world.
The majority will suffer through this time, and will have their faith tested.
Tom,
First you start off with the statement, (or question), “Don’t, (Doesn’t) the Vatican have daughters.(?) – the Bible says so.”
Does it? If that is true, could you perhaps provide for me the verse, (even one verse), where the Vatican is actually mentioned? (And while you are providing that, could you also include the verses that would specifically be referring to its daughters.)
You then say, “They are all Babylon.”
Really? Well I would agree that many Churches today are confused, having been lead down false paths, (as are certain individuals as well, having had their ears tickled by false teaching), but are they really Babylon?
“Babylon” occurs 294 times within the Bible, (King James), in 260 verses, (296 if one were to include “Babel”, and 262 times in verses respectively).
Out of this rather significant total, within the New Testament, it is only included a total of 11 times.
It is used three times within Matthew, 1: 11,12 & 17 in referring as to when Jerusalem was taken captive by Nebuchadnezzar within Matthews commentary regarding lineage.
It is used once within Acts 7: 43., during the martyr Stephens comments to the Sanhedrin, where again it would be referring to the above.
It is used again within 1 Peter 5: 13. Here Peter includes “Babylon” within his “farewell” to the Jews scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia. And Babylon there, (which would be an elected or chosen body of believers), appears to be held in high regard. This can be understood simply because of the affection that Peter also displays regarding Marcus, “my son”, within the same verse.
The remaining times 6 times that “Babylon” is used, are all within the Book of Revelation, (14:8., 16:19., 17:5., 18:2 & 10. and 21.).
I would appreciate it if you could provide the answer for the above questions, before I will comment on the rest of, (what I believe to be), your inaccurate speculation.
Looking forward to your reply.
a.
Al, I went through the same process of opening my mind to the Word and the Spirit – seeking Truth. How? Humble myself, seek
first the Kingdom (spiritual righteousness, peace and joy in the Spirit) and His
Righteousness (the Blood of Jesus).
He is downloading on me as I ask and when I read the Word.
This Mark is both physical (industrialized nations, banking system) and spiritual. The Mark will be very clear in what it means and who it comes from beginning next year. It will take many months to implement the “system” fully. The days are shortened (length of time between start of Mark and full implementation) because at full implementation – even the remnant will have a very tough time living day-to-day. The chip is ready, the system is prepared – it only requires a “crisis” to cause change, then the ac with “power” to direct.
It all begins later this year and “he” is revealed before Passover 2013.
Remember, the ac has millions of demons/devils (within people) to accomplish the details in every community.
I know this is true, but I am pinching myself, trying to believe that it if finally going to happen.
I know…sometimes I just shake my head in pure joy, amazement and a little apprehension of what is to come…I agree, by Passover of next year. I also believe the mark is both spiritual and physical as well. I pray that I will be found worthy. I also know the closer it gets the stronger the satanic attacks will be on the ones that are diligently seeking. I am putting on the full armour! It is very hard for me to think about anything else.
Oh I can testify about attacks! I consider it “amping up”. If you comprehend deliverence ministry (Derek Prince is best in this), you understand spiritual warfare. It is amping up! If you have a “spirit of fear” or “anger” or “bitterness” on you – it is on it’s last ride. Please – I strongly suggest Derek Prince Ministies web site. Listen to audio files, books: War in Heaven, Secrets of Prayer,
Warrior,
Bought with Blood,
Thou Shall
Expell Demons.
Our warfare is with powers and
Principalities.
I had spirits of fear, rejection, pride and a few
others as a believer! Yes. Paul writes “cast off” for a reason. Simon in Acts 8 had spirit of “bitterness and inequity – after believing, baptism and good teaching from
Phil. Dont think you do? Start with pride and consider evert emotion that is not peace, sound mind, joy and loving-kindness. An propetual bad attitude – likely a “spirit” that is not of God is upon you.
These “spirits” are amping up – I know it to be true.
Oh my gosh!! yes, I am being attacked from every angel…I am in sales and it seems every order I am getting satan is trying to destroy, make things go wrong, and anything else and I am sure you can imagine:-) I just rebuke him as I lay my head on my desk:) wandering what is going to come next! LOLOLOL!! You are so right…”A Spirit of that is not of God” is trying to wreak havok on my emotions and my life! I just keep on saying ….Lord Jesus come quickly…NOW PLEASE:-)…Every person I know that KNOWS he is soon to return and what is getting ready to be upon us..watching diligently is being attacked…we just lift each other up in prayer and encourage each other many times a day with phone calls and emails and prayer!
Hey DJ, Deb, and Marianne,
I Pray that all of you are well.
I only have time to make one post tonight, and the choice was obvious between bantering over scriptural interpretation, or edifying my brothers and sisters.
Yes DJ, this is the second time that I have gone though this myself. The first was in March, April May of 1993. Which coincidently coincides with the “counting of the Omer” leading up to Shavu’ot???.
It was back then that I became totally aware that my gift from the Spirit, was that of discernment. And I agree that things are definitely “amping up”.
I don’t just see feel it, but I have been blessed with being able to discern it as well, by simply looking into their eyes.
(Unfortunately when you do that, it works both ways, and they also become aware of exactly who you are in the Glory of Yeshua. lol.)
Nonetheless, sometimes when I have felt either the presence of a demonic entity or something just plain evil, (once so strong that it was felt by a friend that was with me at the time that didn’t even believe in God.) I would have to explain it like this. You know how a cat when scared puffs itself up and tries to look bigger and badder than he actually is. It is like that.
Fear should not even be in our vocabulary when dealing with this trash.
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come ; and even now already is it in the world.
4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because GREATER is HE THAT IS IN YOU, than he that is in the world. 1 John 4:3,4. KJV.
We are told to “stand”, (uphold or sustain the authority or force), 3 times within Ephesians 6:11 to 14.
So why do we simply stand, rather than fight? Because Yeshua has already WON the battle and war, so we stand in that Victory!
We are indwelt with the Spirit of God, which has all Power and Glory.
FAITH is also TRUST, and I have witnessed that TRUST be an amazing SHIELD over the years. You simply couldn’t convince me otherwise, regarding the awesome Power that Trust can deliver.
On the other hand, fear gives these this trash their strength, because you are not trusting in God the Almighty Father. If you believe that something can have power over you, then it actually can.
So don’t anyone ever go there. That is not our position in Yeshua. Be His image while here on this rock during these times, and He is a Roaring LION, and Warrior KING. You, We, have more strength through His Name and more Authority than you could ever imagine, and it is contained within the Holy Spirit that is inside you, and in your very own heart of TRUST.
Stay strong my fellow believers in the LORD. Rejoice in Him.
Praise be unto Yeshua our Precious Savior. Our Glorious KING of kings and LORD of lords.
Amen,
Love to all.
Come Yeshua Come.
a.
Oh and just a heads up for everybody here too.
If you have just gone through a similar experience through the Spirit, and have been discussing it over the internet with others, you can bet that the dark side knows about it. There is some type of spyware on your system.
My system is only 8 months old, and when this happened 3 months ago I started experiencing all kinds of problems. (Praying over it definitely helps!)
Just thought that I`d throw that out there.
Speaking of which, this might be the last time that I can post on this thread. My system just stops working. lol.
Praise Yeshua our Precious Savior. Our Glorious Warrior KING of kings and LORD of lords.
Amen.
a.
Get a Mac.
Had one since 1988, never got a virus. Even the CIA uses them in their most secure operations.
Satan owns Microsoft, doncha know?
🙂
Tom, right on! So many churches (evangelical?) are bewitched – it is a “spirit” and has a few manifestations – Python (false prophetic and active in “spirit filled” churches), Levithan (monarch over pride, active in “scholarship” pulpits) and/or Jezebel (worldly secular teaching churches).
The fat and lean sheep are about to be separated, goats too. Wolves will be uncovered and flee. Woe to the shepherds (Ezekiel 34) and to those under their care. Woe to new born believers and those reciving milk not meat (Matthew 24:19; 1 Corinth 3:1-3; 4:20).
Read 1 Corinth 3:11 to 4:5.
The coming months (42) is the testing by “fire” for the majority of US Churches. We are so Corinthed: pride and worldly. Bad combination for a segment of The Church that must be cleansed/ before He comes.
Folks, it is coming soon.
Prepare your vessel – be a wise virgin.
It’s easy, start today – pray non-stop, turn off the TV and read the Word, call for the Light to shine upon you, asking Him to reveal Himself to you.
He will reveal through His Word – if you are fervent and know that you are righteous by the Blood of the Lamb.
Rght on Bro. DJ – its good to here you talk that way. I agree with the testing by fire etc. etc. – Good post
There is a 3.5 year tribulation…just as Tom says above specifically though scripture mentions 1260, 1290 and 1335 days.
deb
true
1290 – indicates the abomination occurs 30 days before the flight from jerusalem occurs. they are all probably in shock and it takes time to wake up and flee.
1260 – 42 months in the wilderness.
1335 – the extra 45 days from the defilement of the sanctuary to its cleansing and re-dedication….should occur around Chanukah.
To all – and alienated – The daughters of satan – this is kindof a hard message so beware. The times are late and foolishness must not win but the truth will prevail. This is not skinned milk its meat for the soul.
Rev. 17:5 Mother of Harlots means
4204 porne {por’-nay} povrnh feminine of 4205;
AV — harlot (8)
— whore (4) [12]
1) a woman who sells her body for sexual uses
2) a prostitute, a harlot, one who yields herself to defilement for the sake of gain
3) any woman indulging in unlawful sexual intercourse, whether for gain or for lust
4) metaph. an idolatress; so of Babylon i.e. Rome, the chief seat of idolatry
REVELATION 17:18
» 18. And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
A. — This great City is Rome and that is all that it could be. Jerusalem was not reigning but were subjects under all the 7 Nations which are called BEASTS. Religion is riding in every nation. But Rome is the largest of all the Christian cults even today. It’s the highest form of Spiritualism in the world as it actually uses Christ name with their doctrines of devils, that seduce the whole church and all become Universally Lukewarm. That is her daughters. As Jezebel seduced both Israel and Judah and put them into Idolatry.
Jezebel married Ahab – she was not a Jew. Jezebels daughter married into Judah she was not a Jew either.
When Jesus the Full Word came on the scene they could not even recognize this Powerful God/man- Already bewitched by pagantry.
Yes the Universal church has many daughters. Just as Eve and Adam had 2 seeds Cain and Abel. that were different. One was the corner stone for True Revelation and the other Cain had false revelation. And he was the Marked man. Yes he had the Mark of the beast – But God said he had a CHOICE and he chose his own religion amen.
Now lets read about the attributes of this Mystery Babylon of Rev. 17 and 18
REV 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. Rev. 12 this is where many of people running for their lives in the dark ages went into – the Universal church for safety believe It or not makes no difference to me dear brother.
REV 17:4- And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
A. Exactly like what you see today in the colors and cups of Gold in their Abominations of desolations. Now maybe we can get a closer look at what that fraze means as well. Abominations of Desolations is belonging to a dead church system that hates righteousness – sounds like Jesus day and our day. amen
REV 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. = “mystery of Iniquity” the lawless one that Apostle Paul told us about. How people would rather believe a lie and walk in darkness more than the light. Because Light REVEALS their deeds and FAITH
A. oh by the way that was not a computer chip in her forehead. Her mind loved sin and adulterous ways.
That was a pretty wretched system of abominations and we was told to “Come out of Her my people”
The answer to your question is below – Plain as day – I hope you are sincere in your heart brother.
The church ages reveals most all anti-christ teaching that draw people away from the truth.
Lets get right down to the skinny of the matter now as daughters are children and churchs.
Thyatira Means DOMINATING FEMALE – Women are life bearers of the seed. = Spiritually = Word
REV. 2:20- Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. — sounds just like Rev. 17-18 amen –
21. And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
22. Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
23. And I will kill “HER CHILDREN” with death; and ALL THE CHURCH’S shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
24. But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
This is the Anti-christ that everyone is being told is out somewhere in the future. Their MARK is the MARK of the BEAST – fornicators, Killers of the Prophets, Over 50 million common people in the dark ages. And now they are killing them with False doctrine as well. And people really feel sorry for the Vatican. Any system of man that has killed millions of innocent people in the dark ages and NOW Kills them Spiritually by FALSE PAGAN DOCTRINES of DEMONS. And Paul Crouch and every TV evangelist actually pays respect to the SYSTEM that is killing and sending millions of people to hell every day with the Mark of the Beast. Do people actually think that Jesus Christ acted like the Pope does. You need a brain transplant if you do. YOUR MIND is GONE – Marked in the forehead. Giving service with your hands to a corrupt system and we suppose to not hurt no bodies feelings. If you loved Justice which is LOVE you have to tell the people the truth about the Mark of Satan. Just read the Church ages to them and let them decide who is who. Satan got a seat in the Church – The NATURAL PHYSICAL SEED OF ANTI- CHRIST is right before you. Their “Badge of Servitude is not the “EXACT COPY” of the TRUE Christian church. The Word “MARK in Rev. 13:16 Says it’s a badge of servitude, Exact copy, Engraving Character. A computer chip in your flesh will not deceive you. It will just get buried with you when you die. But its your mind that has never been Rom 12 Transformed into the Image of Christ Mind.
The daughters of the Bond Women are not free Paul says. Yet look at the church’s letting people live, and look anyway they want to, and sin anyway they want to and still call tell them they going to heaven. Calling what is right Bad and calling darkness – Good. THERE IS YOUR ANTI-CHRIST daughters of satan. Esau sold out for food – and went to hell – not over a computer chip – Judas sold out – you see he could not “buy into Christ” the popularity that he was looking for. He wanted a Position in the Church when Jesus became a King. When He found out it was going to be different – MONEY was his thing.
This is satans way in the churchs they eat from the tree of Death and Life at same time. But it won’t work. . These are not Islamic – they do not pretent to know Jesus Christ – these are all over the world. All nations it says in Rev. 17 and 18.
Is Islam going to deceive the truth church — come on – it don’t even deceive the world. It politicians that got them deceived thinking they gonna take over the world – and it ain’t going to happen.
GALATIANS 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
Rev. 17: 5 the Word Harlot means
4097 AV — sell (9)
1) to sell: of price, one into slavery; metaph. sold under sin i.e. entirely under the control of the love of sinning; of the master to whom one is sold as a slave; of one bribed to give himself up wholly to another’s will —- Read all of Rev. 18 you will find those slave’s in there under the Babylonian empire that is in the world now and always has been in the world. Paganism and Religion started in Genesis – and goes all the way to Revelation. Called the mark of the beast – Death is upon you – As God today to Break open that DEATH SEAL and SEAL YOU WITH THE HOLY GHOST – That is what the Seals is about.
THE MARK OF THE BEAST or the MARK OF GOD — Cry out for the Grace of GOD to come upon you and give you conviction of Sin – Then you could be Saved by the Power of the Holy Spirit and God will make you a Brand New CREATION – The old Beastly man dies to let the New man Live. How many will “Sell out and Buy of God – its free come if you are thirsty buy of me. THIS IS THE TRUE meaning of buy and sell. That’s a message in itself. You can look at the Book of Revelation in two ways. Just see what the World is going through or look at the Overcoming Christian. Which one are you trying to find in the Book .
Okay Tom,
I don’t have the time to read all of the above tonight, but instead of bantering about who’s interpretation is right or wrong, why don’t we instead try to see what we understand together, perhaps you have pieces to the puzzle and perhaps I do as well? Also maybe the Lord will utilize someone else that reads both of these posts, and will reveal to them something new that would edify everybody.
Below I will post what I believe the Spirit had me re-translate. It is Revelation chapters 17 and 18. This happened a couple of months ago when I was in that 40 day fast and just pumped with the Spirit, (It was, overwhelmingly glorious!) But I had no desire to do this myself and thought I was, going to be doing something completely different. (little did I know. lol. This probably took less than an hour to do.) It is all derived from either the original Greek, the words definitions, or from the root words themselves and their definitions. As I have recently said to Marianne while discussing it, I had felt prompted to “pick this and take that” and then put it all together, I myself, (other than doing the typing), hardly participated at all.
Actually, I will post the whole email that I had sent to Marianne on April 24, 2012, so you and others can see the difference between me then and now, and perhaps also sense my urgency and just how freaked out I was after having that last Vision. I am pretty sure that poor Marianne thought that I had maybe just blown a fuse at the time. lol.
Sorry in advance because it is long.
Marianne,
I’m forwarding an email that I have sent off to a brother that is dear to my heart, and to other people as well.
“YES”, it very long. But I fully believe that it will be the most important material that you have ever read, or ever will read again.
I had no idea when I made the statement “There is a sense of sorrow within my heart regarding this decision, (to leave), though I don’t believe that the decision is entirely that of my own”, just over a week ago on April 15th. that it would actually prove to be prophetic.
Two days later I started to be woken up every night, (after only getting 4 hours sleep), from having visions!
The Holy Spirit rested on me and I was lead to texts to study. During this study, (which you know personally I am very analytical with), I was lead solely through the Spirit to re-translate Revelation chapters 17 and 18., and in doing so, not only understood completely what the city of Babylon was, but was also able to receive total understanding of Daniel’s interpretation of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream meant since the two unknowingly at first, were so intimately interconnected. I cried and couldn’t understand as why God chose me to receive this understanding when so many people have tried to understand it in the past. I was so thankful to Him and decided that since He had freely given it to me, that I would share the information by making it Public Domain to simply edify the church.
But that is NOT why He gave me the understanding. He did it so I would know that it was the Holy Spirit and that I would trust the Spirit when I had more visions! Which I have had “every night” over the last week! The Spirit then had me re-translate Revelation chapter 1 last night while I was absolutely exhausted. Though my heart was willing, and I wanted to be obedient, my flesh was weak and I had to try and get some sleep. But 4 hours later again I have another vision and this time it was crystal clear, rather than having to seek and find.
God was simply preparing me for this message. The vision was the verse of Revelation 1:3. and I could see the verse in my mind and the last 5 words where way larger that all of the others, and were shimmering and vibrating, and I awoke with a start of an Audible LOUD VOICE saying,
“THE TIME IS AT HAND.”
I have been up since 2:30 am sending this out to everyone that I know, and I am excited and scared at the same time, cause I don’t know what else to do? Please read it all, PLEASE!
I can’t believe that your spirit doesn’t sense all of this inside like mine is?
I know that you and I have disagreed in our theology in the past. But you have to trust me with all of our heart on this. Please!
And please don’t take any personal offence to what I say regarding your site below. There were many that disagreed with my theology.
Which all appears now to have been God’s truth. At least discover what Babylon is, and what the Interpretation to Daniel’s dream means, though I don’t think having that knowledge is going to matter one iota very, very soon!
My prayers are with you.
Shalom.
JOHN I DON’T KNOW WHETHER YOU ARE TAKING ME SERIOUS OR NOT HERE, OR WHETHER YOU MIGHT FEEL LIKE I AM SIMPLY LOSING MY MIND? BUT I AM AS SERIOUS AS A HEART ATTACK RIGHT NOW!!!!!
AND I AM GOING TO PROVIDE YOU WITH SOME OF THE INFORMATION THAT I HAVE BEEN WRITING ABOUT TO PROVE TO YOU THAT FOR WHATEVER REASON, GOD IS TELLING ME HOW “IMMINENT YESHUA’S RETURN” IS!
YOU MUST READ IT NOW!
FORGET WHATEVER ELSE YOU MAY BE DOING BECAUSE FRANKLY COMPARED TO THIS IT MEANS SQUAT!
SERIOUSLY IT IS TOO LATE! THERE IS NO TIME LEFT! THE END OF THIS AGE IS OVER VERY SOON!
“THE FOLLOWING IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING THAT YOU WILL EVER READ!”
I AM SIMPLY DOING THIS TO BE OBEDIENT AND FAITHFUL TO OUR LORD!
BELOW YOU WILL FIND BOTH REVELATION 17 & 18 THAT I RE-TRANSLATED WHEN THE SPIRIT RESTED ON ME, AND THE UNDERSTANDING OF DANIEL’S INTERPRETATION OF NEBUCHADNEZZAR’S DREAM. THIS WILL PROVE TO YOU THAT THIS IS FROM GOD!
AND I JUST WOKE UP AGAIN, (AFTER ONLY ANOTHER 4 HOURS SLEEP), AND FROM HAVING ANOTHER, “BUT VERY CLEAR VISION THIS TIME, OF A VERSE OF SCRIPTURE.”
JOHN THE REASON THE BOOK OF REVELATION HAS NEVER BEEN UNDERSTOOD BY ANYBODY BEFORE, WAS SIMPLY BECAUSE GOD DIDN’T WANT IT TO BE UNDERSTOOD UNTIL IT WAS TIME, FOR IT TO BE UNDERSTOOD! “AND THAT TIME IS NOW!”
THE VERSE THAT SCREAMED AT ME IN THE VISION WAS REVELATION 1:3.!
THE SPIRIT HAS HAD ME BREAKING DOWN THE TEXT OF REVELATION AND AS I HAD TOLD YOU, INSTEAD OF IT BEING DEAD IT HAS COME ALIVE, AND HE HAD ME JUST GO THROUGH REV. CHAPTER 1, (THOUGH I WAS EXHAUSTED), YESTERDAY, JUST BEFORE HAVING TO TRY AND GET SOME SLEEP.
WHAT WAS SIMPLY TRANSLATED IN DEAD TEXT AS “FOR THE TIME IS AT HAND” IN THE KING JAMES AT THE END OF VERSE 3, SHOULD HAVE BEEN, OR “IS NOW” TRANSLATED AS “FOR THE TIME WHEN THINGS ARE BROUGHT TO CRISIS, AND THE DECISIVE EPOCH THAT THOSE THAT ARE CLOSE TO GOD HAVE WAITED FOR IS NOW!”
VERSE 1:7. HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH “AND THEY [ALSO] WHICH PIERCED HIM” IT MEANS INSTEAD, IF YOU LOOK AT THE DEFINITIONS, AND THE DEFINITIONS OF THE WORD ORIGINS, BASICALLY, “THOSE THAT DIDN’T ACCEPT YESHUA AS THEIR SAVIOR!”
IT IS TIME FOR THE “NEW CREATION” TO LEAVE AND FOR “EVERYONE ELSE” TO STAY PERIOD.
THAT WAS ONE OF MY REASONS FOR LEAVING THAT CHRISTIAN SITE I USED TO POST ON, MOST OF THE PEOPLE WERE TOO STUBBORN TO LISTEN TO GOD’S TRUTH. THEY COULDN’T COMPREHEND THE DIFFERENCE SPIRITUALLY BETWEEN THE ‘EKKLĒSIA AND THE HAGIOS.
THERE ARE “NAMES” OF DIFFERENT GROUPS THAT ARE WRITTEN IN THE “BOOK OF LIFE”, AND ONE OF THOSE GROUPS OF NAMES CONSIST OF THE “NEW CREATION” (SPIRITUAL ISRAEL) THAT WILL BE RAPTURED ALL AS ONE GROUP!
(BECAUSE OF THE IMMINENCY, URGENCY AND THE QUICKENING OF MY SPIRIT AND THAT “THE SPIRIT HIMSELF” HAS ME FEELING, MAYBE ON SHAVU’OT WITH GOD RECEIVING THE SPIRIT BACK ON THE DATE OF THE ANNIVERSARY IT WAS GIVEN? THIS IS THE ONLY THING THAT I AM NOT ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN ABOUT. BUT I THINK AND FEEL THAT THIS IS NOW THE DATE.)
THEN THERE IS ANOTHER GROUP, “THE HAGIOS” WHO EITHER WEREN’T BORN AGAIN, OR TOOK THEIR RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD NONCHALANTLY, OR FOR GRANTED, THEREFORE REALLY HADN’T ESTABLISHED A RELATIONSHIP, (MATTHEW 7:14. –7:22,23. & 25:12.) THIS GROUP HAS TO NOW “EARN” THEIR WAY INTO THE “BOOK OF LIFE”.
THE RAPTURES IN THE BOOK OF REVELATION ARE ALL THERE IF YOU ALLOW FOR THE SPIRIT TO SHOW YOU. IF YOU WISH TO MAINTAIN THAT OF YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING RATHER THAN GOD’S, THE SPIRIT DOESN’T FORCE YOU TO UNDERSTAND.
THE ‘EKKLĒSIA IS DESCRIBED WITHIN VERSES 3:7. TO 3:13. (THE CHURCH OF PHILADELPHIA. “BROTHERLY LOVE”) BEING THE FIRST OF THE “FIRSTFRUITS”, AND THE RAPTURE OF THIS GROUP IS REV 4:1.
THE “HAGIOS” IS DESCRIBED WITHIN VERSES REV.3:15. TO 3:19. (THE CHURCH OF LAODICEANS.) THESE VERSES CLEARLY DESCRIBE WHY YESHUA SPITS THIS CHURCH OUT. THEY ARE LEFT ON EARTH, AND ARE THE FIVE FOOLISH VIRGINS HAVING QUENCHED THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH, (1 THESS. 5:19.) THEY DON’T MAKE THIS UPCOMING RAPTURE!
AND THE DEAD TEXT AS IT IS EXPRESSED IN REV.3:18., DOES NOT DO THIS VERSE JUSTICE WHATSOEVER. FOR IN THE GREEK IT SHOULD SAY,
“TAKE COUNSEL WITH OTHERS, TAKE COUNSEL TOGETHER, YOU ABANDONED AND BARREN PEOPLE. YOU MUST PURCHASE FROM ME GOLD WHICH HAS BEEN EARNED, BY BEING TRIED IN THE FIRE. THOUGH YOU ARE INDIGNANT, AND ARE ANGRY, PERCEIVING THIS TO BE UNFAIR AS TREATMENT IN BEING LEFT IN THE FIRE, IT IS IN ORDER SO THAT YOU CAN BE RICH WITH ABUNDANCE, AND RECEIVE YOUR BRILLIANT WHITE GARMENTS AND THEN WEAR THEM, SO THAT THE SHAME AND DISHONOUR OF YOUR NAKEDNESS IS NOT VISIBLE.
BUT ANOINT THE EYES OF YOUR MIND WITH SALVE IN ORDER THAT YOU UNDERSTAND, (VERSE 19), THAT AS GREAT AS MY LOVE IS, YOUR FAULT HAS BEEN EXPOSED, SO, I HAVE TO CHASTISE YOU SO THAT YOU WILL LEARN. CONSEQUENTLY THEN, BE ZEALOUS IN YOUR PURSUIT OF BEING GOOD, AND REPENT FROM YOUR PAST SINS.”
THOSE THAT MAKE IT THROUGH ALL OF THIS AND DON’T ACCEPT THE MARK OF THE BEAST ETC. AND BECOME SAINTS, ARE RAPTURED NEAR THE END BEFORE YESHUA’S RETURN, (REV. 15:2.) NOW THEY CAN PUT ON THEIR WHITE GARMENTS THAT THEY RECEIVED WHILE WAITING FOR THIS RAPTURE AND FOR THE OTHERS THAT WILL BE KILLED AS THEY WERE, AS DESCRIBED IN REV.6:9-11.
THEN THERE ARE THE 144,000 THAT ARE THE “MAN CHILD” BIRTHED FROM ISRAEL IN REV. 12:5 WHICH ARE ALREADY IN THE BOOK OF LIFE, BUT COME TO THE FAITH DURING THE CAPTIVITY OF SATAN, (SEE REV. 18:1. AND 4 IN BLUE BELOW.) THESE 144,000 ARE RAPTURED IN REV.14:2. ALL OF THESE, “THE TRUE FAITHFUL ‘EKKLĒSIA, THE 144,000, AND THE SAINTS”, ARE ALL CONSIDERED TO BE “FIRSTFRUITS”!
EVEN THOUGH THEY HAPPEN TO CONSIST OF 3 SEPARATE GROUPS.
THEN THERE ARE THE TWO WITNESSES WHO ARE OBVIOUSLY VERY SPECIAL PARTICIPANTS WITHIN THIS DRAMA, AND HAVE PROBABLY ALREADY BEEN IN HEAVEN FOR A VERY LONG TIME BEFORE RETURNING TO SERVE THE FATHER ON EARTH. THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES WHERE THEIR RAPTURE IS PLAIN AND OBVIOUS AND WRITTEN IN REV.12:5.
GOD MADE SURE THAT REVELATION WOULDN’T BE CLEARLY UNDERSTOOD, SO THAT HE COULD SIFT THE WHEAT FROM THE CHAFF, AND FIND OUT WHO WOULD BE REALLY FAITHFUL TO HIM , HIS SON, AND HIS SPIRIT.
IT WASN’T THE TRANSLATORS FAULT, BECAUSE FOR ONE, GOD DIDN’T WANT THE BOOK TO BE UNDERSTOOD UNTIL IT WAS FULLY TIME, (SEE REV. 10:4.), AND SECONDLY, THE DOCTRINE OF A RAPTURE HAD BEEN LOST AND DISCARDED YEARS PRIOR TO THE WORDS TRANSLATION INTO THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE.
THAT IS WHY THEY TRANSLATED THE GREEK WORD “κόπτω” AS MERELY “SHALL WAIL” WITHIN REV. 1:7 TOO, BECAUSE THEY COULDN’T UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT OF, “PEOPLE BEING COMPLETELY CUT OFF AND SEPARATED FROM GOD!”
I CAN’T BE THE ONLY ONE HERE ON THIS PLANET THAT GOD IS SPEAKING THROUGH RIGHT NOW! “I CAN’T BE!” WATCH, BECAUSE PLENTY OF WITNESSES ARE GOING TO BE TRYING TO WARN EVERYONE NOW. UNFORTUNATELY “NUT BARS” HAVE BEEN DOING THAT FOR AGES, (WHICH WAS ALL A PART OF SATAN’S PLAN, AS WAS THIS MAYAN CALENDAR THING), THIS WAY THE TRUE WITNESSES WON’T BE LISTENED TO! ….. JUST LIKE YOU MIGHT BE QUESTIONING MY SANITY NOW?
BUT JOHN OVER THE YEARS THAT YOU AND I HAVE SHARED CORRESPONDENCE, HAVE I EVER SOUNDED LIKE, OR DONE ANYTHING LIKE THIS EVER BEFORE? DON’T YOU SENSE AND FEEL THIS JOHN?
ANY WAY’S READ WHAT I HAVE POSTED BELOW TO PROVE WHAT I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO TELL YOU. THE BLESSED HOPE HAS ARRIVED!
I SAID THAT I WOULD NEVER SAY THIS UNLESS I HAPPENED TO BE POSITIVELY AND ABSOLUTELY SURE, BUT SINCE THE SPIRIT HAD RESTED IN ME SO STRONGLY WHEN I TRANSLATED THE BELOW AND DISCOVERED THE MEANING BEHIND DANIEL’S DREAM INTERPRETATION, AND SINCE I AM HAVING ALL OF THESE VISIONS OVER THE LAST WEEK AND A HALF, AND ALSO IN FEELING THE WAY THAT I DO, I AM GOING TO SAY IT NOW……“THUS SAITH THE LORD GOD!”
THE FOLLOWING WILL BE “CHOPPY” BECAUSE I AM ONLY GOING TO COPY AND PASTE PARTS OF THE MATERIAL THAT IS DIRECTLY RELEVANT. REMEMBER THAT IT IS WRITTEN TO BE PRESENTED TO A READER, SO IT SOUNDS FROM WHAT I WILL COPY AND PASTE LIKE THIS WAS SOMEHOW THAT OF MY OWN ACCOMPLISHMENT. BUT I CAN ASSURE YOU THAT IT WASN’T, AND IT WAS ALL THE SPIRIT!
THERE HAS BEEN NO WAY FOR ME TO BE ABLE TO WRITE DOWN EVERYTHING THAT HAS BEEN REVEALED TO ME OVER THIS LAST WEEK AND A HALF, AND I HAVEN’T HAD A CHANCE YET TO WRITE HOW THE SPIRIT HAS BEEN INVOLVED, OR RECORD ANY OF THE VISIONS EITHER.
During my years of study, I have become quite familiar with both the Greek and Hebrew text, and have also become very proficient in utilizing a Lexicon to retrieve various definitions. With that in mind, please allow for me to translate Chapter 17 & 18 within basically the same order as the original Koine Greek, yet utilizing some of the words “other definitions”, and substituting them as possibilities with the hopes that it will provide further clarity to the topic of “what city” Babylon is referring too within the book of Revelation.
Since these chapters are comprised of symbolism, I will also utilize some of the Greek words metamorphic meanings. Those of “idolatry” that have been expressed as being an abomination to God the Father from Genesis on. (And # 2 of the original Hebraic Ten Commandments.)
And since the beginning of 17:6 would already suggest that of martyrdom, I will utilize the primary definition of the Greek “μάρτυς” transliterated as “martys”, (Strong’s 3144), and substitute the word “Witnesses”, which is its literal meaning, and what the word has been translated as the majority of the time within the New Testament.
(A total of 29 times as “witness” in fact, within the KJV., as opposed to 3 times, (of which this instance would be 1), as “martyr (s)”, or the 2 times the word has been translated into “record”.)
This for some, will undoubtedly offer clarity as to time frame, and as well, greater specificity as to “who” the verse is actually referring too and as well, what city that it is occurring in. (Revelation 11:8.)
For those that may consider this following translation to be some form of blasphemy or heresy of sorts, may I remind you that the text that you read in your homes today, is also a translation. This would simply be another, based solely on the definitions of the original Greek, and constructed in today’s vernacular. And I would challenge any linguistic scholar to question its validity.
I might also add the following;
“Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.” 2 Timothy 2:15.
Before beginning, I ask for you to read Jeremiah 25:9-16., and keep in mind that Nebuchadrezzar, the King of Babylon, is a foreshadowing of this event. The beast however must stay in Jerusalem, and the 70 years are reduced to 7 years, based upon Daniel 9:27. The reason the beast must stay in the city will be explained and provided in detail at the end of this commentary, as will all correlating Scripture in respects to these 2 chapters.
Since we have been told that the woman is indeed a great city within 17:17., I will substitute the words, “city (‘s), or it (‘s)” in place of the word “her” where it is appropriate to do so. However I will leave it within the vision that John saw, and within some of the first instances of the angels explanation. You may also notice that I have substituted the word “world” for every instance that the word “earth” had been utilized, for this provides the reader with a more accurate understanding of the word within the “spiritual context” in which it represents at the time this is taking place.
REVELATION 17.
1 And there came one of the seven angels that had the seven vials, and spoke with me, saying to me, “Come with me. I will show to you the great whore that sits over many peoples:
2 With who the leaders of the nations of the world have prostituted themselves and have committed fornication and idolatry, and the inhabitants of the world have shed blood and become murders, being made drunk, intoxicated with the wine of the city’s defilement and idolatry.”
3 And he carried me away by the Spirit into a desolate uninhabited place, and I saw a woman sitting upon a scarlet coloured beast full of names of blasphemy having seven heads and ten horns.
4 And the woman was dressed in a garment of purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, holding a golden cup in her hand, [determining and controlling the destinies of men], full of things pertaining to idolatry, and the impure filthiness of her fornication.
5 And across her forehead was a name written, Mystery Babylon the Great Source and Mother of Harlots, Idolatress and Abominations of the world.
6 And I saw the woman intoxicated with the blood of the murdered Saints, and with the blood of the murdered Witnesses of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered exceedingly? (Note; the blood of the murdered Witnesses would refer to the Two Witnesses killed by the beast outside of the new Temple that will be built in Jerusalem. The text of Revelation 11:7,8. clearly states that they will lay there dead in the very same city that the Lord Yeshua was crucified in.)
7 And the angel said to me, “Why do you wonder? I will tell you the hidden mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carries her, which has the seven heads and ten horns.”
8 “The beast that you saw was and is not; and will come out of the abyss of the bottomless pit, and will lead by destroying with utter destruction and ruin: And those that live in the world will worship him, (whose names were not written in the scroll of life, (made separate), from the foundation of the universe), when they behold the beast who was, and is not, yet is.”
(Note; The last “they” in the above verse refers to those that admire, (and will worship) him. The “was, and is not, yet is” refers to that “he” was once “Holy” but is now NOT Holy, though in the eye’s of this people, he is.)
9 “And here is the mind that has capacity for spiritual truth and wisdom. The seven heads are the seven mountains, whereupon the city, the woman dwells, [whereas]” (Note; The Greek “ὅπου” transliterated as “hopou” (Strong’s 3699) has been more or less omitted, and incorporated somehow into the body of verse 9. Which linguistically doesn’t make sense. Therefore I placed it within brackets and will utilize the definition of “also” for that of “καί” rather than “and” for the beginning of the next verse, in not being a new sentence, but rather a continuing one.)
10 “also there are seven world leaders: five have died, and one still lives, and the other has not yet come. And when he does come, he is required to stay for only a short period of time.” (Note; This would refer to the beast that the eighth and last beast will make an image of.)
11 “And the beast that was and is not, even he is the eighth, and is from the seven, and leads into utter destruction and ruin.” (Note; this 8th. beast is Satan that rises up from the bottomless pit, Rev.9:11. Satan is the king and the one that controls the legions of what John refers to as locusts in Rev. 9:3-10. These locusts are also referenced within Joel chapter 2. Satan is also the one that kills God’s Two Witnesses, Rev.11:8.)
12 “And the ten horns that you saw are ten world leaders, who have not received their authority as leaders yet; but will receive that power and governing authority for only one hour with the beast.”
13 “These possess only one intention, and will give their residing power and governmental authority to the beast.”
14 “These will make and go to war with the Lamb, but the Lamb will be victorious and conquer them; for He is the sovereign Lord of lords, and the King of kings, and those that are with Him are called, and chosen, and faithful.”
(Note; this will occur during His conquering return, when He comes with all of His Saints, “the chosen and faithful Firstfruits”, (1 Thess.3:13.) and Angels, (Matthew 24:29-31.)
Double Note; the first 2 instances of “elect” in Matthew 24, (verses 22 and 24) and what is spoken about within that chapter, is “referring to all of the people that are being described within these 2 re-translated chapters!” The last instance of the word “elect”, (verse 31) is referring to the “wheat and tare” parable of Matthew 13:24-30. which happens at Yeshua’s return. (This wheat and tare parable is referred to also as the “one taken and one left”, which hasn’t got a thing to do with any rapture! God chooses, (eklektos, or “elect”) this group for punishment! Yeshua explains the sequence of the parable’s events clearly to His disciples, in Matthew 13:36.-43. The fleeing that is described within Matthew 24:16-20. is referenced in Rev. 12:6 and 14-17. and also in blue below in Rev. 18:4. )
15 And he said to me, “The waters that you saw, (where the whore dwells), are people, and the ignorant multitudes, and nations of various languages, not worshipping the true God.”
16 “And the ten horns that you saw upon the beast, these will detest and pursue with hatred, (which we should understand by now, (though having fallen again, like so many times within the past into Idolatry), who she represents), the city, and shall strip her of her treasures and make her desolate, laid bare and naked. And they will devour and consume her substance, both man and beasts, and burn the city with fire.”
17 (All confirmed here, when one takes into account “who” will be ruling the world from Jerusalem), “And that woman that you saw, is that great city, which holds possession of the minds, of the leaders of the world.”
Before continuing, notice that John didn’t ask the angel any questions regarding which city that this is? He understood now completely. He had already seen the vision of the Two Witnesses being killed, as well as the Saints and knew exactly which city it took place in. He understood not only from the explanation that was provided, but also from prophecy that was written within the Tanakh. There is no prophesy regarding the destruction of Rome. However there are numerous prophecies, serving duality of purpose, as to the destruction of Jerusalem due to its disobedient and idol following people.
The cycle is a repetitive theme that repeats itself over and over again within the Tanakh.
REVELATION 18
1 And after this I saw another angel descend from heaven, possessing great power; and the world was illuminated with spiritual enlightenment, imbued with saving knowledge in the presence of his glory, [to teach those that had ears to hear].
2 And he cried out mightily with a great voice, saying, “The great city of confusion that lacks understanding has fallen under judgment, and come under condemnation! It has become the habitation of demons, and the prison of every unclean spirit, and cage of every unclean and detested bird.
3 Because all nations and people have taken part by drinking the wine of the city’s fierce passion, of its fornication and idolatry, and the leaders of the world have committed idolatry and fornication with it, and the merchants of the world have been made rich from the power of its eager desires.”
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, “Come! Escape out from the city my people, so that you are not partakers together of its sins! So you will not also receive of the city’s calamities and heavy afflictions!” (Note; as stated above,this ties in with Revelation 12, and Matthew 24, the “man child” consisting of the 144,000.)
5 “For the city’s sins have followed what has happened before, and has been fastened firmly together as if becoming one like the past, until heaven and God has brought it to mind and remembered its evil and iniquity!”
6 “[Therefore], deliver to that city its oath sworn debt, to render account and pay for its recompense, even as it has done to you. Even double! Deliver unto that city double according to its works! In the cup which it has filled to the brim, it will drink double!”
(Note; All of this sin and idolatry and worshipping Satan as if he were God, has been a total trespass against God the father. So laws like Exodus 22:9 apply for Him to dole out punishment too. Read Isaiah 40:2. and for those that have punishment the first sentence of Isaiah 61:7. and for those that make it out and overcome the last sentence. Also Jeremiah 16:18. & 17:18.
7 “As far as it has honoured itself and lived luxuriously, give to it great torment and mourning! For it says in its heart, I sit and dwell as a Queen, and I am not a widow and will see no sorrow.”
8 “Therefore because of this, the time has arrived, [and] its affliction will be heavy! They have come now, death and mourning and famine have come in one day, and the city will be utterly consumed by fire! For the Lord God is strong and mighty, that has pronounced the judgment, of guilty to it!”
9 “And the leaders of the world that have committed the fornication of idolatry and have lived luxuriously with the city, shall mourn and weep for the city, and beat their breast for grief over it as soon as they see the smoke of its burning!”
10 “They standing far away, will realize that their union together has been destroyed, and in fear of the city’s torment will say, “Woe, woe, that great city of confusion, that mighty city, for in one hour its judgment has come!”
11 “And the merchants of the world will weep as for one dead, and mourn over it because no one will purchase their goods for sale anymore.”
12 “The goods of the images made of gold, and of silver. And pearls, and the expensive delicate Egyptian linen, or purple, silk, and scarlet fabrics. Or all of the north African citrus wood, [which is prized for incense]. And every most precious vessel that is made out of wood, brass, iron and marble.”
13 “And cinnamon, incense, ointments and frankincense. And wine, olive oil, the finest wheat flour, and cattle, sheep and horses. And vehicles, slaves, and the souls of people.” (Note; Satan is ruling the world and everyone is digitally connected economically, with the mark of the beast. He will receive a tax from every product worldwide that is bought or sold, and will become the richest and most powerful being that has ever walked on the earth. the “merchants” are Satan’s demon leaders that rule in different nations.)
14 “And the Spring season that my soul has coveted and lusted in has departed from me, and all of my sumptuous style of living in splendid magnificence is gone from me. And though I could search, I will never find it again.”
15 “The merchants of these things that were made rich with materialistic abundance from the city, will stand far away, realizing that their union together has been destroyed, and in fear of the city’s torment they will weep and mourn.”
16 “And say, “Woe, woe, that great city that was dressed in fine linen, and purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold, precious stones and pearls!”
17 “For in one hour such a great abundance of wealth has been laid to waste, made desolate, and stripped of its treasures. And every ships Captain, and all of the people in the ships, and the seamen, and whoever makes gain by trading by sea, stayed far away and separated from the city, realizing that their union together has been destroyed.”
18 “And they cried out loud when they saw the smoke of it burning, saying, “What city is like, or resembles this great city?””
19 “And they threw dust on their heads, and cried out loud, weeping as for one dead, and mourn, saying, “Woe, woe, that great city by which we all were made rich, everyone that had ships in the sea, from the city’s abundance of costly merchandise! For in one hour the city has been laid to waste, made desolate, and stripped of its treasures!”
20 “Rejoice and be glad over the city O’ heaven, and you holy apostles and prophets! For God has decreed His judgments, and executed His vengeance, on the city and has vindicated you!”
21 “And a strong and mighty angel lifted up a stone, (like great millstone), and threw it into the sea, saying, “Like the speed and rush of this stone that I have thrown, that great city of confusion that lacks understanding, will be thrown down and shall never be found again!”
22 “And the sound and voice’s of harper’s, and musician’s, and of flute player’s, and of those that blow the shofar, will never be heard in the city again! And no craftsman of any discipline at whatsoever, will be ever be found in the city again! And the sound of a millstone will never be heard in the city again!”
23 “And the light of a lamp will not shine ever again in the city at all! And the voice of the Bridegroom and of the betrothed Bride will never be heard in the city again! For those merchants were as lords over the world, for with the poisoning of their drugs, and their occult sorcery, and their deceptions and seduction’s of idolatry, they led astray and deceived the multitudes of people!”
24 “And in the city was found the blood of the Prophets and of the Saints and all that were slaughtered and butchered in the world!”
Now, if some of you are still unsure as to which city in particular this is referring too from the above translation, lets look at a few things together. First, lets look at why I have replaced the name of the city “Babylon” and substituted instead “The great city of confusion that lacks understanding”, and whether or not doing that was justifiable to do so?
After the flood, Ham begat Cush, and Cush begat Nimrod, and Nimrod established the kingdom of Babel. In taking into account its variants, Nimrod is rendered in Hebrew as “נִמְרֹד”, (a proper masculine noun), transliterated as “Nimrowd”, (Strong’s 5248), and its primary definition is “rebellion”. Babylon, (or Babel), in Hebrew is “בָּבֶל”, (a proper locative noun), transliterated as “Babel”, (Strong’s 894), is defined as “confusion, (by mixing)”.
Now pay particular attention here, because many have not been able to figure this out, or fully understand this prophecy yet.
This, “confusion by mixing”, can be understood to encompass that of “language”, (as was the first instance in Genesis 11:1-7.) or “also” that of “people” as this would be the case within Revelation when the beast, (satan), ascends from the bottomless pit and infiltrates the world with his minions.
This “confusion of MIXING” is what is meant and described within Daniels interpretation of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream. Read Daniel chapter 2, and specifically that of verses 36 to 45 within this context, and it should become as plain as day. Verse 43 for those that don’t have their Bible in hand is “And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.”
Now in just having read Daniel 2:36-45., and if the Spirit is guiding you in truth, you will have also realized that verses 34 and 35 that describe the “Stone” that “was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet [that were] of iron and clay, and broke them to pieces”, is the very same “stone” that John perceived as being the “millstone” in Revelation 18:21. above in the re-translation.!
The “stone”, if in taking into account the fulness of the original Greek as I have translated above, is not a literal stone. But is rather, utilized symbolically the first time within Daniel 2:34., to refer to the “speed” of this city’s destruction as in being “one hour”. (Rev. 18:10…17….19.) And utilized the second time within verse 35 symbolically, as being representative to that of Yeshua our Lord.
The parallelism between Daniel 2 and these chapters above is self evident.)
Carrying on from above in respects to substituting “The great city of confusion that lacks understanding” for “Babylon”;
Nebuchadrezzar in Hebrew is “נְבוּכַדְנֶאצַּר”, transliterated as “Nĕbuwkadne’tstsar”, (Strong’s 5019) and it is defined as “may Nebo protect the crown”.
God denounces this Nebo within Isaiah 46:1. after telling the people again through Isaiah within the preceding chapter, that He is their God and not to worship another. Within chapter 45, God also makes reference to a people of a future time. In verse 16 He states, “They shall be ashamed, and also confounded, all of them: they shall go to confusion together [that are] makers of idols.”
Also, satan is the true king of confusion, deceit, and hates for people to personally know God through Yeshua. Consequently then, as stated within scripture, (Isaiah 14:4.) he is the true king of Babylon as well. (Verses 5 and 6 of Isaiah 14 there, are described in more detail above in Revelation 17 and 18. And the following verses of 7 through 17 describe what will occur “after” this takes place and Yeshua returns.
Therefore Babylon, (though at one time was an actual city), is expressed within the Tanakh, by its Hebraic definitions, “as describing any city that is confused and lacks the true understanding of the One Triune God, and is also mixed with satan and his seed, and has fallen totally into idolatry.” Which as it has many times in the past, provoked God to be angry and jealous.
IF THE ABOVE DOESN’T RESONATE WITHIN YOUR SOUL AS ALL BEING TRUE, AND ISN’T CONFIRMED AS SUCH BY THE HOLY SPIRIT, THEN I DON’T KNOW WHAT TO SAY? I AM COMPELLED BY THE SPIRIT TO SEND THIS OUT, AND I WILL FORWARD IT TO OTHERS THAT I CARE ABOUT AS WELL. I MYSELF WILL PRAY THE PRAYER THAT YESHUA ASKED FOR US TO PRAY. “WATCH YE THEREFORE, AND PRAY ALWAYS, THAT YE MAY BE ACCOUNTED WORTHY TO ESCAPE ALL THESE THINGS THAT SHALL COME TO PASS, AND TO STAND BEFORE THE SON OF MAN.”
MY PRAYERS ARE WITH YOU. THE BLESSED HOPE IS NEAR!
SHALOM.
To All.
(This was what I initially wanted to post before I made the error earlier on today. Thank you Marianne for deleting my previous mistake.)
Just for the sake of discussion, I am going to post an email below where a dear brother and I have been politely debating about whether the city in Revelation 17 & 18, (Babylon), could possibly be the city of Jerusalem. I would be interested to hear any thoughts that any of you have regarding this.
No names, or email addresses have been revealed below to maintain and respect privacy. (I know, I know…. now there are no names. lol)
From me….
Hi Dude,
Hope that you had a blessed day.
I do not doubt your zeal my brother, neither do I doubt that with the years of study that you have done with the Spirits guidance, that you possess a significant amount of knowledge regarding the Book of Revelation itself. However, with that said, you have to admit that Gods Word states in Daniel 12:4 & 9,10. and in Revelation 10:4., that both of these Books have been “sealed”, until the “end times”. This would mean that specific “keys” for full and complete understanding regarding both Books are missing, and will be only provided by God during end times. This is God the Fathers Word that says this, and can be confirmed by what is stated within the latter part of Daniel, 12:4., namely, “even to the time of the end; and many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.”
You understand how to utilize Strong numbers and a Lexicon yourself, so I won’t provide the Hebrew etc. regarding the above verse, however it could have very easily been written in todays vernacular as, “But you O Daniel, stop writing, shut up and keep secret the scroll of prophecies until the end times. When many will run eagerly back and forth and knowledge, (wisdom, discernment, understanding), will be greatly multiplied and increased.”
To maintain the correct context of the above, since it is specifically referring to “end times”, this “increased knowledge” will only occur in the related “future tense”.
So, you can present yourself as being authoritative if you wish, however God clearly states above that all of the answers have not been revealed, and that there is more to learn still.
I’ll answer your statements below in blue. I have also replied to your work email address so the “rich text” and color can be read.
BELOW IS THE REPLY THAT I RESPONDED TO;
Hi ! How ya doing? The issue that you are proclaiming is that Jerusalem is the woman who rides the beast, which based on overwhelming Scripture is not plausible to me, so if I appear authoritative, it is because God drew me to the study of end time events from the beginning and thereby the study of the book of revelation and the other related books and Scriptures.
Since your claim is that Jerusalem is the woman who rides the beast, then everything written in chapters 17 & 18 must be applied to Jerusalem. So the way I’m going to do it is just to list some of the major characteristics regarding the woman and then you can give me the apologetic for it..
These first few I have already presented, but never got a response back from you:
1. “The waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages.”
POSED QUESTION;
a. In my opinion, just as the woman sits on seven hills which I believe represents Roman Catholicism’s headquarters, Vatican/Rome, the mention of the waters that she sits on, represents Rome’s pagan influence (adultery), which can be found world-wide, ergo the peoples, multitudes, nations and languages. In my opinion, Jerusalem does not fit this criteria.
MY REPLY;
I agree that the seven hills could very well be Rome, and that the false prophet, could very well have something to do with Catholicism too. And I would also agree, that right now, at this particular time, Jerusalem does not fit the bill so to speak, but we have to remember that this is Prophecy and that city that is spoken about has been subjected to seven years of Tribulation with the beasts in control. Also that God has allowed for the world and that city to believe a lie.
POSED QUESTION;
b. Also, though Jerusalem has stumbled and is still stumbling over the stumbling stone, I don’t see her as a prostitute and that because she is not going after other god’s. On the other hand, Rome skewed from the gospel so that they follow another lord and another gospel, while proclaiming to the church. When Constantine deemed Christianity as the official religion of Rome, then all of the pagan rituals and beliefs were transferred over into Rome’s version of Christianity. Today, most of the characteristics stemming from the pagan Babylonian mystery religions can be found in Roman Catholicism, from the mitre hat, the Eucharist, the obelisk, Maryism, the confessional and too many more to list.
MY REPLY;
Again we have no debate regarding Catholicism. I agree totally with your points that you make above. Yet God has referred to Jerusalem as a Harlot many times in scripture for doing exactly what Catholicism is doing today. I ask you to consider this; If God has sent a strong delusion so that all the people believe a lie, (2 Thess. 2:11.), and therefore they worship the beast and his image due to the signs and wonders, (Matthew 24:24., 2 Thess. 2:9. Rev. 13:13.) in believing that lie, isn’t it possible that Jerusalem will also believe that lie, and believe that “the beast” is indeed their messiah?
A peace treaty is signed which will save Israel from the upcoming war. To the Jews he will appear to be the messiah that they were waiting for the first time.
In Revelation 13:3., the beast will die and then rise again, just like Yeshua, and the false prophet will be able to utilize the scripture from the Tanakh, (which we understand now as referring to Yeshua), to substantiate that the beast is indeed their messiah. This along with the lying signs and wonders that the false prophet will perform, and the fact that God the Father has sent them a delusion to believe the lie, does more than suggest that Israel will believe that this is finally their messiah, and in worshipping him, Jerusalem then becomes in the future, the Harlot.
POSED QUESTION;
2. “The seven heads you saw are seven hills upon which the woman sits.”
As I have stated prior, I believe this to be the woman’s headquarters, the Vatican/Rome. How does Jerusalem fit into this, seeing that she does not sit on seven hills?
MY REPLY;
Again, I do not disagree that all of this may start in Europe with the establishment of a ten nation governing body as described in Daniel 7, but where does scripture state that it all stays there? On the contrary, we have established that the “woman” in Revelation 12 is Israel, (based upon scripture interpreting scripture and that of Genesis 37:9,10.) Therefore logically, shouldn’t that fact be carried forward?
We also know that when the dragon pursues the woman fleeing into the wilderness, (and then goes after the remnant), that he is in Israel or specifically in the city of Jerusalem itself since he sits in the rebuilt “temple of God”, (2 Thess. 2:4), proclaiming that he is god. We also know that the “Two Witnesses” are killed in Jerusalem as well. The 144,000 are born of Israel. The whole Book of Revelation itself appears to be focused, (like that of the Tanakh). on Israel and Jerusalem, unless of course one is a propionate of “replacement theology”.
POSED QUESTION;
3. “They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves.”
As you know, the woman is destroyed by the beast and the ten kings and that by fire so that, the city can never be inhabited again. My claim is that, how can the woman be Jerusalem, which gets destroyed by fire, so that no one can inhabit the city every again, yet, here at the end of the thousand years, Scripture shows that those people from the four corners of the earth are surrounding the camp of God’s people, the city that he loves? This would show that there are people inhabiting the city. In my opinion, there is only one city that could be referring to the city that God loves and that is Jerusalem. If you agree that this is referring to Jerusalem, how then could there be people residing there, seeing that the woman who rides the beast is destroyed and uninhabitable?
MY REPLY;
You are quoting Revelation 20: 9. above, which is clearly at the end of Yeshua our Lord’s Millennial reign. Do you not think that when Yeshua returns and establishes His Millennial Kingdom that He wouldn’t be able to restore it with His splendour first?
POSED QUESTION/STATEMENT;
These are just a few of the concerns that I have regarding this issue. Sorry, but I have to use the word “Concern” because claim is a concern. Some of the other issues are the mention of the woman being a major world exporter, where the kings, the merchants, the sea captains and sailors are all made rich from her wealth. Does this characteristic fit Jerusalem?
MY REPLY;
At this time “no” it doesn’t. However again this is a Prophecy describing future events. If satan wished to be perceived through the beast and false prophet as the first beast being their messiah, wouldn’t it be possible that he would also establish the city as being what God the Father had always promised it to become. That it would become a light to the world both economically and spiritually?
Please consider the following as well;
Revelation 18:6., is referred to in Isaiah 40:2. and the city is that of Jerusalem. (This verse is one of duplicity of meaning and foreshadows multiple events of the future. This is confirmed by what is written within Isaiah 40:45.)
Jeremiah 15:3., could also very well be referring to the 4 kingdoms that were in Daniels vision of the 4 beasts? Nonetheless, God in speaking through Jeremiah is referring to what He will do to Israel in the future. The reason that God is going to do this is because of Manasseh the son of Hezekiah king of Judah, for that which he did in Jerusalem. (Jeremiah 15:4-10.) In Jeremiah 15:11-18., the focus changes to the cry of the “remnant” during the Tribulation.
In Jeremiah 15:19-21., God expresses the remedy for their cry. If they return to Him, they will be redeemed, (which could also be referring to the fleeing within Revelation 12:13-17.).
Jeremiah chapter 16 continues with the focus being on Israel and the city of Jerusalem, and as to why all of this calamity will be doled out on them.
Verse 16:11 is the beginning of Gods explanation as to why, and includes the history of the Disporsia, up to the return and establishment of the Nation of Israel again, (verse 15). Revelation 18:6., also correlates and is referred to in Jeremiah 16:16-21., especially that of verse 18.
In Exodus 22, God explains that for the people that do wrong according to the law, that “double” will be required of them to make restitution. The law was only applicable to the people of Israel, and to maintain their relationship to God. Revelation 18:6., appears to be God doling out “double” to a city and people for their sins.
Isaiah 61 is a prophecy describing the “Vengeance” of God, (or Tribulation and Wrath), and the subsequent establishment of Yeshua’s Millennial Kingdom.
The Hebrew “צִיּוֹן”, transliterated as “”tsiyown”, (Strong’s 6726), and translated into English as “Zion” within verse 61:3., is another name for “Jerusalem” especially when utilized within prophetic books.
Isaiah 61:6., is referring to those that have been glorified and will rule and reign with the Lord Yeshua during the 1000 year period. Verse 7 is now expressing that for “something’s” shame, those that will rule and reign, shall have double, and for “something’s confusion”, (disgrace, reproach and dishonour), those that will rule and reign will “rejoice” for they will possess the double portion.
Well, in keeping within the context of the chapter, what could possibly be the “something” that has been judged to have been shameful and full of confusion?
That would have to be “Zion” wouldn’t it? And Zion prophetically is referring to Jerusalem.
Isaiah 61:9., confirms, (though not stated literally), that those that will rule and reign with the Lord Yeshua, are the “seed of Abraham”, and the fulfillment of promise as it relates to that of Faith.
And in respects to Revelation 18:19., what is the race of people that John observed that “cast dust on their heads” as it is correctly translated from the original Greek? I don’t believe that the correct answer to that would, or could be “Catholics”.
Just my thoughts brother.
POSED QUESTION;
Also, you wrote to Tom;
“Why would there be the necessity for a “new” Jerusalem, if the old one hadn’t possibly been destroyed like the city that is described within Revelation itself?”
I had mentioned this in a previous email that, the New Jerusalem is not a replacement for the present Jerusalem and that because, this present heaven and earth and everything on it departs from God’s presence prior to the creation of the new heaven and new earth. It is not until these are created that the New Jerusalem comes down. This current earth will never see the new Jerusalem and therefore, it cannot be a replacement for the current one due to destruction. What are your thoughts on this since you never gave an answer for this?
MY REPLY;
In Yeshua’s epistle to the Assembly of Philadelphia He states that there will be a “new” Jerusalem.
Jerusalem has been rebuilt numerous times already within scripture. When Yeshua actually comes to establish His Kingdom here on earth, do you really think that He will just move in as it stands today without preparing it for all of His worthy glory? I suspect that Jerusalem will be splendid and majestic at that time, rather than simply being what it consist of today. I suspect that it will be “new” everything.
Yours in Yeshua our Holy and Precious Savior.
Praise be to the worthy KING of kings and LORD of lords. Amen.
Sorry,
I have to make a small correction to the above.
Where I say, “Revelation 18:6., is referred to in Isaiah 40:2. and the city is that of Jerusalem. (This verse is one of duplicity of meaning and foreshadows multiple events of the future. This is confirmed by what is written within Isaiah 40:45.)”
The verse that confirms the above should have read as “Isaiah 40: 5”.
My apologizes for any confusion.
Praise be to Yeshua our Holy Savior and KING of kings.
Amen.
Also regarding one of the questions that was posed above;
POSED QUESTION;
3. “They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves.”
As you know, the woman is destroyed by the beast and the ten kings and that by fire so that, the city can never be inhabited again. My claim is that, how can the woman be Jerusalem, which gets destroyed by fire, so that no one can inhabit the city every again, yet, here at the end of the thousand years, Scripture shows that those people from the four corners of the earth are surrounding the camp of God’s people, the city that he loves? This would show that there are people inhabiting the city. In my opinion, there is only one city that could be referring to the city that God loves and that is Jerusalem. If you agree that this is referring to Jerusalem, how then could there be people residing there, seeing that the woman who rides the beast is destroyed and uninhabitable?
MY REPLY;
You are quoting Revelation 20: 9. above, which is clearly at the end of Yeshua our Lord’s Millennial reign. Do you not think that when Yeshua returns and establishes His Millennial Kingdom that He wouldn’t be able to restore it with His splendour first?
I FORGOT TO ADD SUPPORTIVE SCRIPTURE WITHIN MY POST ABOVE, (AND WITHIN MY REPLY); ZECHARIAH 6: 12,13.
THESE VERSES STATE THAT YESHUA BUILDS HIS MILLENNIAL KINGDOM TEMPLE.
Praise Yeshua our Holy and Precious Savior. Our Glorious KING of kings and LORD of lords.
Amen.
Bro. alienated and all- Every since I have been on this forum I have basically taught everything you have said here. Where you been dear brother. Did you read my last post. I am so glad that you are seeing these things really I am. Rome is the Gentile CORNERSTONE for all mixed confused Christian religion that is upon the earth. It has spread through out the whole world. God is not a mixer like you said. Paganism and Christianity do not go together.
Rome just followed Jerusalem’s tracks and went into captivity of Babylon’s world till it became traditions and Apostasy when Christ came along with Elijah first to introduce him.. Its was Israel mixing with all the beastly -Nations- of Daniel. That is what I have been trying to tell people for years. Beastly-ism is worldly-ism. Loving the world more than Christ
Coming out of all the confusion of Babylon is Gods will. But it hurts so many when you tell them the facts of Revelation of true Salvation. Its a very hard crossover into the Real Revelation of the Mystery of Christ.
America is a very good example of the Babylon today. Even her politicians call her Rome. She has gone the way of apostasy just like all of Europe has done after her GREAT revivals. They all have had great revivals by Luther, Wesley, and the restoring of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit like in Pentecost Act. 2-3 . They had great Prophets they listened to in that day. But now just like America they think prophets are in a by gone day.
Yet the Greatest False prophet of Christianity is excepted by most of the world. Paul Crouch and Benny Hen said they would love to have the Pope on their shows. I have already seen Pauls wife bow down on her knee’s to lesser pope’s of other countries and the people love it so – That was not a computer chip that decieved her to worship a man. WAKE UP
The Vatican City of Rome is called the Eternal city. What a blasphemer. But he still sitting on his throne in his great eternal city of doom and darkness and leading the whole Christian world. Wanting to do the same as Nimrod tried to do but failed cause God Came Down. Messed up the plan.
Just like in Rev. 10. But people cannot handle the truth of it. After apostasy what is left for any nation. Nothing but 7 times more evil spirits come into it. Is this not what happend to Cain. After God talked to him. and He refused to do Gods will. That is the Mark of the Beast – Just like they had in Jesus day – The Church in apostasy and will not repent, Head strong, led by greed, and wanting to rule the people and make slaves out of them for their means and not for the people’s salvation and they could not even led a person into salvation by their traditions. That was Not a computer chip either that decieved them.
When Eisenhower and Kruschef had words against each other in the 60’s . One name meant Clay and the other name meant Iron. There are signs everywhere but the people to not pick up on it. That was the 2 most powerful leaders in the world at that time. History will tell you real quick that after Roman rule it always leads to Communism. Think about it dear people. What is American doing right now. Going into Communism. Do we all realize that Rome was a little Pentecostal church run by 2 prophets. But rich big wheels, great politicians, great men of fame and smart educated men started going their, and the little Pentecostal church throwed out their 2 prophets for a system of men. No wonder John looked at that great Babylon system of the great eternal city and just had to marvel by how it looked in the future. Its in your history books.
When we can figure out what the Rapture really is and the 2nd. Coming. You will be on your way to much Greater Revelation of salvation.
Then get back with me brother. But remember the more you Eat the Word and get Revelation its like honey going into your soul. But you will have alot of opposition in a unbelieving World and traditional church of today. When God reveals Himself to you and you except it. Then the more Revelation you will get from God. That is a promise from the Word of God. But if we do not use what he gives us. He will give the gift of Revelation = Faith to others that will use it for good and Righteousness.
Bro. Tom
Hey Tom,
I agree with what you say about the apostasy of the churches today – almost all of them, starting with the beast/whore Vatican and then down thru the harlot protestant daughter churches. They will all have to be cleansed before Christ returns, and pagan Babylon in them will be destroyed.
As for your comments on America, I hear this all the time, but I don’t agree. America is not God’s church. It is not supposed to be run in a godly manner. So many people thing the US is somehow part of the Book of Revelation but it is not. Actually, when it comes to spreading the gospel, If not for Americans, God’s word would have died out a century ago. I don’t know If you live in America, but I can tell you one thing, we didn’t fight the Nazis so we could later turn into fascists, and we didn’t fight the commies in Vietnam to become communists ourselves, and we are not fighting the Taliban so we can turn Muslim. We are fee people and we fight for freedom for other nations who are oppressed by dictators and racist regimes. If you think that the people of America are going to vote for communism you are sorely mistaken. Our constitution would not permit such a government and the people would never stand for it.
So stop the crazy talk and concentrate on God’s REAL problem – bad Christianity. It is worldwide – every nation and tongue. You can’t single out a single country and blame everyone in it and its government. The Book of Revelation is between God and His church. Keep His commandments and the testimony of Jesus Christ, and you will get thru the tribulation fine. No chips, no Antichrist, no New World Order, no One world Currency, no rapture. Just a bunch of bad churches, like the ones Jesus rebuked in rev3. No need to read anything more into the story than that. If you’re looking for blame, don’t pick the US. Blame the pagan practices in Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome. At least Babylon and Rome are mentioned in Revelation. No need to go off the grid and look for scapegoats.
Other than that, you are right on track. We are the minority on this site, so we will have to stick together and try to spread the truth. The rest will eventually unravel in time and the truth will be revealed.
Until then we must simply have patience.
Bless, brother.
Dear James – I thank you very much for you post back. It is good to have a brother that believes together. As for USA – And Yea I am a American – I’m very Glad to be American. That don’t mean I can’t see her faults. I don’t know where you been the last few years in politics etc. But the America I know now is not the one that I grew up in. I will be 65 in a few days.
As far as America being in Scripture you wrong on that – Rev. 13 Speaks of America as the beast coming up out of the earth. And had two horns like a Lamb, and he spake as a dragon. Meaning her beginning was a Righteous cause. The constitution was written by God fearing men and their standard was the Bible or Lamb =Jesus Christ.
Rev. 13:12 She exerciseth all the power of the FIRST beast which was Imperial Rome turning into Papal Rome – after the Iron Rome policy was defeated which was “divide and conquer” which was her battle cry. She just changed hats to Papal Rome and she ruled for 1,260 years exactly till Napoleon conquered France I believe it was and put that Pope in prison and he died there.
Yea Papal Rome came back after the enlightment age and it was America rising to power this time. Since WW 2 all roads led to America who started with 13 colonies, 13 stripes, and stars. Now I know I just went through a few hundred years of history there. But I do not want to bore people with it.
The Bottom line – Ver.4 “Who could make War with her” who has been able to make war with the U.S in the last 100 years or so. Who exerciseth all the power of the first beast – Rome and her religion – The USA has done more for the Gospel like you said than most any Nation I know. Her Congress, Road systems, courts systems – her One world Power for the last 100 years. Rev. 13:13 states she was the first to make “Fire come down from heaven” in the form of the Atomic Bomb.
The Japanese that lived through those 2 atomic bombs said “it was like fire coming down from heaven.”
And to make this short – who is it that wants to be like OLD EUROPE – The old Roman Empire – She ruled many, many years – “And now America and Europe have them an Image they all want to go with“. Soon it will be the Americo Dollar instead of the Euro. It’s already been spoken. Why would we want to be like Europe. The are already Socialist. Just like we are. Our Godly standard and Constitution has been attacked for many years now by anti-christ systems of Elites, ACLU, Hollywood, Media etc. etc. yeahhhhhh –
AMERICA DID NOT RISE UP OUT OF THE SEA’s – Like the first Beast – Rome was the 4th. Beast to rise up in Daniels writings and it goes on into Perdition. I’m sorry to say but that includes the whole world. That “clay” “Image” part sticks wherever it goes. Catholicism has the greatest number of member’s of Christianity in American society as well as the whole world. The Church of Rome is the Richest entity almost in the world. By the help of America. She has robbed the poor people with her tithes and offerings for so long. It goes back into the dark ages. Think about it.
AMERICA DID NOT have a sea – millions and millions of people when she started her Nation. She did it from People that came to her all the way across the seas to be free from the Universal Papa. American land was virgin you might say. Untouched by corrupt men. Yes I know the Indians were there but they had respect for the earth and water etc. It was still a virgin land until the white man came. Europeans and all.
Gotta Go for now. Lord bless you brother James —
Hi Tom,
You start off within your last reply above by saying more or less the following, “alienated, Ever since I have been on this forum I have basically taught everything you have said here. Where have you been brother?”
First Tom, I wasn’t aware that you had been given the authority to “teach others” and I thought like most of us here, you have been merely expressing your opinions as they relate to your interpretation? Obviously that was “my bad” and I’ll attempt to accept what it is that you have to say “carte blanche”, in the future, rather than being a Berean myself. Until that day though, I will reply with the following for your, and others consideration.
I have just had the opportunity to read your post dated July 3rd. @ 10:01 pm.
This post, (I’m assuming), was in response to my post above on July 3rd. @ 3:44 pm. where I had asked for you to please provide scriptural verses to support what you say, by stating the following, “Tom, First you start off with the statement, (or question), “Don’t, (Doesn’t) the Vatican have daughters.(?) – the Bible says so.” Does it? If that is true, could you perhaps provide for me the verse, (even one verse), where the Vatican is actually mentioned? (And while you are providing that, could you also include the verses that would specifically be referring to its daughters.) You then say, “They are all Babylon.””
However within your response, you don’t provide the answers to my question at all? What you do provide instead, is simply that of your own personal interpretation.
You, (after providing the Strong’s definitions for the Greek “πόρνη”, (pornē), which was translated into the English, “of Harlots”, and after quoting Revelation 17:18.), claim, “A- This great City is Rome and that is all that it could be.”
You then provide, what in my opinion are fractured speculations, mixed with some historical information, and the colors that are expressed in Revelation 17:4., as being sufficient evidence to substantiate your claim.
Now, don’t get me wrong here. I am not defending Catholicism in the least! I believe that its inception was one of satan’s greatest achievements.
Constantine worshipped Mithras and Apollo, and the Catholic Church literally “hijacked” and took over the Faith that was taught and followed within the early church. This original Faith is what I believe, many of us are trying to understand and follow today, which consists of a complete and total reliance, on the shed Blood of Yeshua our Lord as being sufficient.
You could very well be right in your understanding. I am more than aware that many others also believe as you do, as there are numerous books available on the market which express the same thing. However, are they all right? Or, is it really definitive and is the case closed over the subject?
Is the city that is spoken about in the Book of Revelation and referred to as “Babylon” really, without a shadow of a doubt, “Rome”?
I will copy and paste some pertinent information from my above post below here, for your and everyone else’s convenience.
“Babylon” occurs 294 times within the Bible, (King James), in 260 verses, (296 if one were to include “Babel”, and 262 times in verses respectively).
Out of this rather significant total, within the New Testament, it is only included a total of 11 times.
It is used three times within Matthew, 1: 11,12 & 17 in referring as to when Jerusalem was taken captive by Nebuchadnezzar within Matthews commentary regarding lineage.
It is used once within Acts 7: 43., during the martyr Stephens comments to the Sanhedrin, where again it would be referring to the above.
It is used again within 1 Peter 5: 13. Here Peter includes “Babylon” within his “farewell” to the Jews scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia. And Babylon there, (which would be an elected or chosen body of believers), appears to be held in high regard. This can be understood simply because of the affection that Peter also displays regarding Marcus, “my son”, within the same verse.
The remaining times 6 times that “Babylon” is used, are all within the Book of Revelation, (14:8., 16:19., 17:5., 18:2 & 10. and 21.).
Now I would agree that Peter more than likely used the term “Babylon” as a cipher for the city of Rome above. For this would be confirmed by Clement of Alexandria, as quoted by Eusebius: “He also says that Peter mentions Mark in his first letter and that he composed this in Rome itself, referring to the city metaphorically as Babylon.
However, within the entire Bible, (before considering the Book of Revelation), this would be only one single solitary account, and a whole theology has been composed around this instance. I ask you and everybody, “Is that logical to do?”
I am referring to the “city” that is spoken about within Revelation, (not that the “false prophet” may indeed have something to do with, or be associated with the Catholic Church), but lets just look at the city itself.
Consider this possibility based upon the following.
“Christianity”, or what was originally called “the Way”, isn’t necessarily a new Faith, but is in actuality a fulfillment of the old. The Berean’s utilized the scripture within the Tanakh to confirm what they had heard about the Gospel to be true. Yeshua and the Apostles quoted Old Testament scripture hundreds of times as being supportive evidence to substantiate the truth behind their words. So, would you agree that the whole of our Faith is supported by what was previous written and inspired by the Holy Spirit within the Tanakh?
If you do agree then, “What was God the Fathers “city” that was always the focal point within the Tanakh?”
From Melchizedek being the King of Salem, to Abraham’s willingness to sacrifice Isaac on Mount Moriah, to King David establishing Jerusalem itself as being the main city for worship, why then would that all of a sudden simply change within the Book of Revelation? Jerusalem is still the main city of Gods affections and chastisement up to the Book of Revelation, (that was why Yeshua had to be crucified in Jerusalem, and to demonstrate Abrahams willingness to be obedient at the exact same location with Isaac, as being a foreshadowing of this event), but why would that change itself completely only within that Book?
Are the Two Witnesses of Revelation killed in Rome? Revelation 11:8., would state that they are killed in the same city that Yeshua our Lord was crucified in which was and is, Jerusalem.
In respects to the above, Jerusalem is mentioned, (within the King James translation a total of 767 times) but only 3 times in total in the Book of Revelation.
In Rev. 3:12., then not ever again until Rev. 21:2. and 21:10., in which all 3 times Jerusalem is referred to as either Holy or “new”.
Why would there be the necessity for a “new” Jerusalem, if the old one hadn’t possibly been destroyed like the city that is described within Revelation itself?
Yet a whole theology has evolved over just this one mention of Rome being referred to in a cipher in 1 Peter 5:13.
I used to hold the same view that many of you hold to, but now I am not so sure. It just doesn’t appear to be a logical conclusion any more, (especially after participating within the above re-translations of chapters 17 & 18, where there are subtle but significant differences from the original text).
I would like to express, that above is not a teaching. They are however my thoughts after going through what I have experienced over the last 3 months.
I attempt to maintain an open heart regarding the Word of God, and as a Berean, if I were to utilize the fulness of the Tanakh and what is contained within the New Testament up to the Book of Revelation, I believe that I would find that there is far more evidence to suggest that the city would be Jerusalem rather than Rome.
Nonetheless these are just my thoughts. Whether you or anybody else chooses to question what they believe, and consider the above that is up to them.
Praise Yeshua our Precious Savior. Our KING of kings and LORD of lords.
Amen.
Tom,
No response whatsoever to the above?
Dear Alienated – you cannot see the forest for the trees – as they use to say. I answered your question and gave more back. Im sorry you cannot understand revelation. I try and make it as simple and short as I can because most people are in such a hurry today for a quick microwave answer to some real complex question. You would have to sit under anointed teachings for years to understand some of the things that are said on subjects. Thats why forums at best can only bring out the simpler truths of more simple mysteries.
I use to go to a church that taught on every subject in the bible and I have sit under a Prophet who did not leave a stone un-turned over. One time a brother came to chruch and The Pastor was preaching on faith= one message – then the next time the same brother came again. And the pastor preached on Faith – the brother said I already heard that last week i want to here about the anit-christ and the Pastor ask him if he had at least a Year and a half to come to service every day just to understand Faith or Anti-christ – This is the way it is.
Apostle Paul said to tell you the same things Over and Over and Over again is safe for the listeners – Cause it takes that to get it in your heart and mind to even think in a proper way about it. .
And again the last thing is This is the first time I ever seen this piticular response back to me. Sorry I missed it Brother. I have speand hours writing out answer real plain and not get a response either. Thats just the way it is. So people are quick to understand and somepeople are not. They still love Jesus thought. After 3 years walking with the Master Jesus Himself – What did the Apostles learn. Come on now and think about it. They did not understand hardly nothing till they recieved the Holy Ghost – they was carnal as could be. Peter would get Praised by Jesus then Jesus would turn around and call him Satan. Is that right. They never knew about the Kingdom of God coming in the Spirit. They alot like today. Everyone thinks the Kingdom of God is coming in the future when it suppose to be IN YOU right NOW. That right there is to much for most people to handle.
I am very very glad to see you getting some real Revelation though dear Brother. God bless your heart. I care about you whether you think so or not. But it is hard to write out everything on a subject in an hour or so.
Tom,
Well, its good to see that you are humble and have your ego under control. lol.
Funny that within your response you didn’t address the content of my post at all, (again), but rather went off on an irrelevant tangent and rambled on instead.
Below would also have relevance to my above post. It is not necessarily for you, but for others to consider, (since you already possess all of the answers) so if you don’t wish to respond, then feel free not to, (please, feel free not to.)
The Days of Noah, and the interpretation of Daniels dream to Nebuchadnezzar, (in Biblical chronological order), and what it all might suggest.
Genesis 6: 1-4.
Numbers 13: 22-33.
(This was the cause, due to a lack of obedience and Faith in the LORD our God, for Israel to walk 40 years in the wilderness, where all of those 20 and older were not allowed to enter the promised land, except for Joshua and Caleb.) I believe that this is a foreshadowing of an event yet to come. (For we as followers of Yeshua are also warned not to harden our hearts. Hebrews 3:8-12. for just one of many examples.) As is Genesis 18: 16-33., and Genesis 19: 1-29., also a foreshadowing of the rapture of the Ekklēsia.
Deuteronomy 2:10,11., & 20,21.
Deuteronomy 3:1-13.
Joshua 12:4.
Joshua 13:12,13.
Joshua 15:8-14.
Joshua 17:12-15.
Joshua 18:16.
Judges 1:19,20.,
(Though they were told by the LORD to destroy everything that they encountered within the cities that they overtook, they disobeyed and didn’t, (verses 21-36). The “seed of the Nephilim” remained.)
1 Samuel 17: 4-51.
(David here is a type and foreshadowing of Yeshua. When King, he establishes the city of Jerusalem as the focal point of worship. When Yeshua returns as the conquering KING, He establishes His Millennial Kingdom in New Jerusalem, as High Priest in the order of Melchizedek.)
2 Samuel 21:15-22.
1 Chronicles 20:4-8.
DANIEL 2:43.
(After the flood, Ham begat Cush, and Cush begat Nimrod, and Nimrod established the kingdom of Babel. In taking into account its variants, Nimrod is rendered in Hebrew as “נִמְרֹד”, (a proper masculine noun), transliterated as “Nimrowd”, (Strong’s 5248), and its primary definition is “rebellion”. Babylon, (or Babel), in Hebrew is “בָּבֶל”, (a proper locative noun), transliterated as “Babel”, (Strong’s 894), is defined as “confusion, (by mixing)”.
Now pay particular attention here, because I believe that the following explains Daniels interpretation of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream, which is a prophecy regarding “end times”.
This, “confusion by mixing”, can be understood to encompass that of “language”, (as was the first instance in Genesis 11:1-7.) or “also” that of “people” as this would be the case within Revelation when the beast, (satan), ascends from the bottomless pit and infiltrates the world with his minions.
This “confusion of MIXING” is what is meant and described within Daniels interpretation of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream. Read Daniel chapter 2, and specifically that of verses 36 to 45 within this context, and it should become as plain as day. Verse 43 is “And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.”)
MATTHEW 13:18-30. AND 36-43.
(This is Yeshua foretelling the disciples what had occurred within the past, (all of the above), and what will occur “again” within the future.)
MATTHEW 24:37-51.
(After that of the experience that I have just gone through, I believe that I was shown how duplicity of meaning was utilized within scripture. (I can’t prove this at all, it is just with what I was left with.) The “One Taken One Left” that is described here within Matthew 24:40,41., (due to the following verses of the chapter), are describing that of the “gathering of the Ekklēsia”, whereas the verses that say the same thing, more or less, in Luke 17:34-37., are describing a different event altogether. The narrative in Luke is referring to the “Tares” that will be taken in Matthew 13:18-30., and 36-43., when Yeshua comes to establish His Millennial Kingdom.)
Nebuchadrezzar, (where it is recorded within Jeremiah 25:9-16.) is the King of Babylon, and these verses are a foreshadowing of this end time event.
Nebuchadrezzar in Hebrew is “נְבוּכַדְנֶאצַּר”, transliterated as “Nĕbuwkadne’tstsar”, (Strong’s 5019) and it is defined as “may Nebo protect the crown”.
God denounces this Nebo within Isaiah 46:1. after telling the people again through Isaiah within the preceding chapter, that He is their God and not to worship another. Within chapter 45, God also makes reference to a people of a future time. In verse 16 He states, “They shall be ashamed, and also confounded, all of them: they shall go to confusion together [that are] makers of idols.”
Also, satan is the true king of confusion, deceit, and hates for people to personally know God through Yeshua. Consequently then, as stated within scripture, (Isaiah 14:4.) he is the true king of Babylon as well. (Verses 5 and 6 of Isaiah 14 there, are described in in Revelation 17 and 18. And the following verses of Isaiah 7 through 17 describe what will occur “after” this takes place and Yeshua returns at His true “second coming”.
Therefore Babylon, (though at one time was an actual city), is expressed within the Tanakh, by its Hebraic definitions, “as describing any city that is confused and lacks the true understanding of the One Triune God, and is also mixed with satan and his seed, and has fallen totally into idolatry.” And though the “end times” will indeed be a worldwide horrible situation, Jerusalem being established by King David as Gods Holy city, has many times in the past, provoked God to be angry and jealous by falling into idolatry.
Therefore scripture would suggest that the “Days of Noah” not only consist of the world itself carrying on as normal etc., but also that “the Nephilim, (the “they” in Daniel 2:43.) are the “seed of satan” that shall “mix” again with the “seed of man” in the end times. I also believe now that with the beast and false prophet establishing a counterfeit Messiah ship, claiming to be God, that this will be centrally focused in Jerusalem as well.
Just my thoughts.
Praise be unto Yeshua our Precious Savior. Our Glorious KING of kings and LORD of lords.
Amen
Hello everyone,
I’ve been reading recent posts with great interest. So many people have been visited by the Holy Spirit or have even spoke directly to God, it seems certain that something is going to happen very soon.
Unfortunately, everyone has a different story to tell, so I’m having trouble sifting the wheat from the chaff, so to speak.
And then there is the guy on a different topic here who has methodically calculated the date of the rapture from the Jewish calendar, and has every tribulation event timed out exactly to the day, starting with the rapture this coming Saturday. Crap, I was going to have a barbecue that day! I guess those who are left behind can party without me, oh well.
Anyway, my point is that I want to commend everyone for sharing your dreams, visions, revelations etc in such specific detail. It gives me something to look for in the coming days. Of course the big problem is, what happens when these “certainties” fail to happen? In the case of the gentleman with the calendar calculations, If even one event fails to occur, then the entire timeline falls apart.
And If Nibiru fails to show up on Dec. 21st, others (you know who you are) will be devastated. Their entire belief system hinges on a specific event on a specific date. What will that mean? Like Mohammed and the “Satanic Verses” it could only mean that it was all just a trick by the devil. Jesus said it would be this way, and to be very careful or even the very elect would be fooled.
So I appreciate the fact that you are willing to put your Christian integrity on the line here. I hope you are right, I’d like the millennium to get here ASAP. But those who know me know I’m the skeptical voice of reason on this site, so you will pardon me If I don’t just jump on board with these predictions.
As much as I might like to, I can not. Not just because I know they are wrong, but I take Jesus’ warning seriously. Who here wants to get in bed with a false prophet, especially one who professes to have spoken to God Himself? So I’m going to do a wait and see on these predictions, and when the time comes I’ll try my best not to pull out the “I told you so” card. But don’t count on that.
it’s kinda what I do around here. 🙂
Bless, and good luck.
James,
You are a true Berean; the nucleus of this website, you’ve been around a bit,
and know a thing or two….have mercy old chap! 🙂
Hope you are well! Blessings.
Thanks Richard. Being a skeptic can be a lonely job.
But I’m used to it now.
Bless.
I said Mayan said 21 dec. Only God knows times so if Nibiru shows up 21 dec then the Mayan got their info from Gods people. Otherwise it can show up later.
Adam, is that you hiding under another new name again?
well, I knew this would happen. Months ago you were so certain that Nibiru and Jesus would show up on Dec 21st, but now as the day approaches you are pulling the same stunt that all the doomsday YouTube’er have done, and simply come up with an excuse to extend the fraud for as long as possible. Even with all the charts and orbital time lines they created to absolutely prove their theories, they simply say, oops, a slight miscalculation, but don’t worry, it will be here soon. More time to buy survival gear from them – how fortunate!
You know, If you keep pushing this satanic agenda God will send wormwood to fall on your house. But then you don’t believe in the Book of Revelation. Maybe that fact will save you. Maybe God will spare the idiots and severely misinformed.
Well, now we will have to see what excuses everyone else comes up with for their errors. I’m looking forward to either the rapture this Saturday or a chance to rip someone a new one (sarcastically speaking of course).
As for everyone else, as Bette Davis once said, “Fasten your seat belts, it’s going to be a bumpy ride.”
Oh yeah, to my fellow Americans, especially other veterans, Happy Independence Day! And to Europeans whom we saved from Nazi domination, You’re welcome!
I’m just wondering who the native Americans and Jews can thank!
Well, many Jews can thank the US for getting them out of the concentration camps before Hitler could wipe out the rest of them.
As for the Native Americans, many tribes can thank the Europeans for their cherished lifestyles. For example, before the Spanish brought horses to the continent, the famed Sioux nation were just farmers in Illinois. They owe their great plains heritage to the early white explorers and settlers. And most all the tribes were already at war with one another. We just gave them new weapons and new tribes to fight, as in the French and Indian wars.
I don’t think anyone believes that the Americas should have been left alone to a bunch of stone-age tribes. What happened to the Indians is exactly what happened to the peoples living in Israel when Joshua led the children of Israel across the Jordan to claim their lands given to them by God. They dealt even more harshly with the residents than we did with the Native Americans, all by orders from God himself, so don’t judge too harshly on this matter.
Granted, there were corrupt representatives who broke treaties and treated some tribes unfairly, but these were the times and the wheels of justice turn slowly. Just ask the people involved in the Arab spring, and Iraq and Afghanistan who needed outside help to free them from oppressive regimes. Ask these people If they want to go back to the old days. The only people they hate more than Americans are their former leaders. Hypocrites, all.
At least we did something with this land. Do you think the Cherokee would have landed on the moon by now? Or would the Apache have invented the worldwide web we are using right now? Or a hundred thousand other things that came out of this great country?
I think not.
Do you realize how many millions would die in a week If Americans and their government ceased all of the food assistance programs today? America may not be perfect, but at least we aspire to be. As long as the world is run by people, there will be problems. But soon we will have a great world dictator to run the earth as he sees fit. When Christ takes His throne we will see just what people can do with the right leadership. And I’m certain that the US will lead the way and make Jesus proud.
And I hope to be right there doing my part. Maybe I’ll see you around then.
Bless.
James,
Thanks, but I wasn’t questioning the virtues of the U.S, just sparring a thought for a couple of groups amongst many, whose value as human beings should have been afforded more respect by those who were apparently more civilized; and that goes for Britain; and any other nation that considers itself Christian, but whose actions as a nation have, and continue to demonstrate otherwise.
Not being nationalistic, knowing Satan is the ruler of this world with all it’s kingdoms under his jurisdiction (remember he offered them to Jesus), but within the realms of God’s providence, I think it would be fair to say that no individual nation can boast of a Christian character that would satisfy God, despite any apparent good deeds that have been performed.
The only nation that has and will ever cut it with God is spiritual Israel, comprising of true followers of Christ from all the nations, from Christs death to today, which is no part of this world. If we are to keep the 4th commandment under the New Covenant, then surely we are also to keep the 6th commandment, if we truly are following Christ and keeping his commandments…….Mark 12:17
Remember that the 6th commandment is properly translated as “Thou shalt not commit murder”
And it only applies to people, not animals of course.
Don’t forget that God commanded Joshua to kill everyone in Jericho down to the last man, woman and child. War is understood as a necessary evil for mankind. The Israelites often carried the Ark into battle for God’s blessing. So I don’t think that military personnel will be singled out as commandment breakers. True murderers will, however, be harshly judged when the earth is harvested on the day of atonement.
And in similar fashion, countries with large military presence will not be summarily wiped out because they were involved in wars. If so, even modern Israel will be found guilty.
I understand what you are saying James, but what happened regarding Israel was directly ordained by God. During the new covenant, has any political entity been afforded consent to break His commandments? God no longer starts wars, Satan does. Those who participate are his pawns. Where is the line drawn where it is justified or not. There is no grey with God. Remember, Christians are being slaughtered in countries that are allied to your beloved U.S.A, and my not beloved England. That’s how Christian political agendas here!
Bro. Richard – the “Kingdom of God” is living in you if you have the Holy spirit – therefore you are a citizen in the Jerusalem that is from above. You are a Spiritual Jew – Apostle Paul plainly says it – we just got to believe it. Jesus said His Kingdom is not of this world – Praise God – And his model prayer to the Father was – Let thy will be done ON EARTH as it is in heaven. His Kingdom is within us – that is the Gospel – Christ IN US the hope of glory – I belong to the Kingdom of God and we are not of this world but we are in it. We the only ones in this world that can boast with humility that we have the “Image and Character” of Jesus Christ. Lord bless you dear brother.
Dear Tom,
I am in total agreement..I have always believed this.
Thanks, and blessings to you!
There has recently been a lot said about getting out of Babylon, but very little said about specific doctrine and teachings that suggests “defection” has in fact taken place.
Can anyone who believes they are free of the clutches of the “whore”, substantiate this with doctrinal examples, knowing that much of “her” doctrine and practices were adopted from mystical Greece and pagan Rome.
Thanks.
Richard,
Here is part of an article I wrote on this very subject. Hope it helps.
Pagan practices adopted by the early Christian churches:
The summer solstice festival, June 24; Now the Nativity of Saint John
The Day honoring the Roman god Cupid Feb.14; Now is St. Valentines day.
Day of the dead; Now All Saints Day today. We celebrate the eve as Halloween
Wedding rings; Now used in all religious and civil services.
Holy water; Catholics use it today to bless themselves when they enter a church.
Ishtar (Semiramis, mother of Tammuz) worshipped as “The Queen of Heaven”; Mary is now given that title.
Chants and repetitive prayers. Beaded prayer chains; Catholics (as well as Satanists) use chants and the beaded prayer chains. (Rome calls the chant “Gregorian chant” and the beaded chain became the “Rosary”)
Pagans wear amulets and idols to scare away evil spirits; Roman Catholicism teaches the wearing of crucifixes and medals as a method of protection.
The round disk “sun” wafer with the IHS symbol for Isis, Horus & Seb, was eaten as food for the soul and worshipped as Baal incarnate; The Roman Catholic Eucharist / wafer also has the IHS carvings on it. And it is also given as food for the soul, and is worshipped as god incarnate (The body of Christ).
Pagan’s would paint the child Tammuz and his mother Semiramus with the glory of the Sun around their heads; We can find many paintings of the child Jesus and his mother Mary with halos of the Sun around their heads.
Pagans performed infant baptism, and the sprinkling of holy water; Some modern churches practice infant baptism, as well as the sprinkling of holy water.
Pagans taught Necromancy (talking to the dead); Catholic doctine teaches Mysticism (Novenas/prayers to the dead and the lighting of candles).
The first day of the week was kept sacred to honor the Persian sun god Mithra. The name of the day was changed to “SUN”day; The Vatican admits they changed the Sabbath from day seven to day one in honor of “SUN”day.
The title “Pontifex Maximus“ was given to the chief head of the pagan Babylonian system of idolatry; The title Pontifex Maximus is one of the main titles of the Popes of Rome.
The Pagan high priest king is believed to be the incarnate of the Sun god; The Pope proclaims to be Jesus Christ in the flesh on Earth.
Pagans are taught to perform offerings of “good works” to appease the gods; Catholics are required to do penance, purchase indulgences, and perform many good works to gain salvation. (This is a major break-point for Protestants).
Pagans had special houses for the virgin priestesses to be employed at Pagan temples (vestal virgins); The Roman Catholic church has Nuns (also virgins).
You will notice that many of the references above are related to the catholic church, but it is not by any means limited to it.
Non-Biblical practices introduces from within the Christian churches:
Besides paganism absorbed by the early Christian church, we must also include another category – non-biblical practices.
In 1517 when Martin Luther, a catholic monk, posted his “95 theses” on the door of his church little did he realize he was about to start the Protestant reformation. From 1510 to 1520, Luther lectured on the Psalms, the books of Hebrews, Romans, and Galatians. As he studied these portions of the Bible, he came to view the use of terms such as penance and righteousness by the Roman Catholic Church in new ways. He became convinced that the church was corrupt in its ways and had lost sight of what he saw as several of the central truths of Christianity. The most important for Luther was the doctrine of justification – God’s act of declaring a sinner righteous – by faith alone through God’s grace. He began to teach that salvation or redemption is a gift of God’s grace, attainable only through faith in Jesus as the Messiah.
These 95 theses were biblical errors that had crept into the church. He found there was no biblical support for many church teachings and practices such as indulgences. He simply wanted the church to drop or correct these errors but of course they refused and excommunicated Luther after which he founded the Lutheran church, and Protestantism was born.
After Luther, several others such as John Calvin, John Knox and others took Luther’s theses even further instituting additional reforms until today where we have dozens of denominations, all with their own ideas on biblical correctness. Each successive split after the Lutheran split brought the church farther from the catholic doctrines, each time believing the changes would bring them closer to the true church – the bride of Christ.
So which denomination will be “the one?” That is beyond the point of this article. What we are asking here is “What practices Jesus will have to reject or correct when he returns?”
Among the items listed above there are a couple of them that I want to emphasize.
First is the use of idols and statues. When the Christians inherited all of the Roman temples replete with tons of majestic statues of their gods there was no way the Romans were going to let their beloved works of art to be destroyed. So the church leaders had to compromise so they simply changed the names on the base of many of the statues to the names of apostles or other Christian saints.
Of course that was only the beginning. Soon new statues were created by the many thousands and devoted Christians pray to them to this day. The statue of Peter in St.Peter’s Basilica in the Vatican, is visited by tens of thousands of catholic pilgrims every year who come to the church every year and kiss or touch the feet of the statue and pray to Saint Peter.
The bottom line was that with all the statuary in their possession the church leaders were forced to do the unthinkable – they actually removed the second commandment from their bibles! At that time citizens were not allowed to possess a bible. They were all printed in Latin and chained to monastery walls. Therefore the priests could teach whatever they wished and no one could call them on it. To this day the catholic bible does not contain the commandment forbidding idols and graven images. They then had to split the last commandment into two in order to keep the total at ten.
So what do you think will happen to all these great works of art when Christ returns? Will Jesus destroy them? Even the Sistene chapel? What about the picture of Jesus on your bedroom wall?
Hmm.
Well most of us would have to agree that was a real no-no. But now what about this next one:
Romans were sun worshippers. It was their primary god. They worshipped on the day of the sun – Sunday. They refused to worship on the Christian’s sabbath day – Saturday. Once again a compromise had to be made. More like a capitulation. If they didn’t want to go back to fighting gladiators in the arenas they would have to allow the Romans to worship on Sunday. So the church leaders put on their thinking caps to see how they could do this. They couldn’t remove another commandment and they couldn’t re-word the fourth commandment to make the sabbath land on Sunday – the first day of the week.
So they did the only thing they could think of – they simply moved it to Sunday through the supreme power of the pope and thus “sanctified” Sunday as the new sabbath. (Can they do that?)
For more detailed information about the historical change of the Seventh day Sabbath to Sunday go to:
http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-12871.html
Many Christians considered Sunday to be “The day of the lord” because he had risen on the first day of the week, and accepted the move, but many firmly refused. In 364 A.D. the council of Laodicea proclaimed “Thou shalt not Judaize.” and Saturday worship was banned and it was considered heresy to observe it. In the dark ages of the crusades and the inquisition at least 50 million sabbath-keeping Christians were martyred because they refused to break the commandment and instead to honor the pagan Sunday. It took almost 200 years to make the complete transition to Sunday worship at which point only a small remnant of the original church remained faithful to the true sabbath but they had to go into hiding for over 1200 years before they could surface again safely.
So why didn’t the Protestants, including Martin Luther, fix this problem while they had the chance? There are a couple of reasons for this. First of all Luther was an extreme anti-semite. In his later career, Luther denounced the Jewish people and urged for their harsh persecution. He opposed changing the Christian day of worship to the Jewish Saturday sabbath. His successors probably agreed with his decision and also probably realized that it would be nearly impossible to get their parishioners to accept the move.
In this regard Joseph Smith was asked by his people “If the book of Mormon was written by ancient Jews, and the change to Sunday was not mentioned in it, why shouldn’t we honor the true sabbath?” Smith said he had to pray on that and make a decision. After a few days he said the Holy Spirit had visited him and told him that they should continue to worship on Sunday. Sounds to me like he knew it would be more difficult to get converts if he had to make them change to the Jewish sabbath.
The big question here is “Who has the power to change God’s laws?” Can a man, a pope or a council of cardinals do it? Could we all do it with an on-line blog vote?
So once again I will ask “Which sabbath day will Jesus honor when he returns?” Will he keep the day etched in stone by the finger of God or will he switch it to Sunday and bow to the authority of the pope and church tradition?
Hmm.
Well I know all this may be a lot to take in, but I have one final question:
If Jesus is likely to eliminate these pagan practices when he returns, should you continue to practice them until that time?
Hmm.
James,
Thanks for taking the trouble to post this. Very interesting read. I believe in most part as you do, so my question is aimed at those who have yet to realize that the thousands of dissenting denominations who like to be known as the body of Christ, are in fact the children of the harlot, fathered by Satan the devil, because there never was a reformation as far as doctrine and pagan practices are concerned. Observing pagan customs such as Christmas and Easter, for example, is the mark of someone firmly entrenched in Babylon.
James,
What you say about the sabbath does make sense, but I have to admit that
I do not observe it, purely from the standpoint that our social structures and way of life are not conducive to it’s observance, unless one lives in a self regulating community such as old covenant Israel, where there is consensus to organize daily affairs so that no one has to work on a Saturday.
However, my heart tells me that there is a very strong case for it’s observance, but have yet to see any scriptural arguments to suggest that it is mandatory in these times, despite it being the 4th commandment.
But who knows!
I think you are not alone in this matter. It is a tough commandment to follow in today’s world, and that makes it the perfect test. Not following another god is too obvious, and giving up praying to statues of dead saints has already been done in many protestant denominations. But Seventh Day Adventists are only .1% of the Christian churches. That leaves 99.9% who follow the beast. Jesus has to train these people to follow the Sabbath starting the day he returns. The mark and the last plagues would accomplish this task quite handily, don’t you think? After all, it has to be done, of that you and most others agree.
Some, like Adam will no doubt get all up in Jesus’ grill about how the actual day doesn’t matter and I’d love to be there for that conversation, nut after suffering the plagues, I think Adam will have learned his lesson = along with many others who are reading this right now.
All I can say, is look for the signs, as I have laid them out. When they come to pass, and there is still no New World Order anywhere in sight, maybe you will make the effort to get right with God before it is too late.
Bless, everyone.
James – Im familiar with the 7th. day adventist doctrines- they are but a denomination as well. They actually believe that anyone that does not keep the sabbath day has the “Mark of the Beast” – Help them Jesus – If that is truth – Jesus need not come and die for our sins. The sabbath day represents the HOLY SPIRIT REST and all that will recieve it are free from keeping Holy days, New moons, meats, etc. etc. etc. Its BY FAITH =Revelation that you are saved not keeping a day of the week.
The Sabbath day was only the “SHADOW” of the real thing. IT’s Grace, Grace, Grace that is crying out now – that Grace when excepted will cleanse you from unclean spirits and laws and scemes of men. That Grace will Fill you with the Baptism of the Holy Spirit which is by God not man. The Pharisee’s claimed Jesus defiled the sabbath. Best for all that all learn the Savior’s answer – Just look it up. Keeping the Sabbath does not do you one bit of Good without the Holy spirit IN YOU. No more than just “Speaking in tongues makes you Holy -That is not THEE EVIDENCE EITHER no more than just getting baptised will make you Holy – THAT IS NOT THE EVIDENCE either. I could go on and on and on and on. With every doctrine cornerstone of denominations – that is why they are dead, dead, dead, Their life has run out of REVELATION of TRUTH for our age. Every age there is more Revelation to know.
Tom,
First of all, the Sabbath days being referred to are the annual sabbaths – the Hebrew feast days that were fulfilled by Jesus (such as Passover). The Ten Commandments are not included here.
Now, there are many Christians that believe that all they need to do is believe in jesus and they will automatically be raptured and not have to deal with the tribulation. Break all the commandments you like, your faith will save you. But the truth is, the mark of the beast is not about faith, it is about works. It is about obeying Him and being true to His word. You will need both to get thru the tribulation.
Just keep that in mind when the tribulation begins and you are still here and there is no New World Order or Antichrist or chip in the hand etc.
But don’t wait too long…
You know.
Hi Marianne, your article regarding the birth-time of Jesus cannot be right!
Both the Magillath Ta’anith and Judaeos (Ancient Jewish Scrolls) indicate that Herod dies on January 14 1BC, so Jesus could not have been born after his death!
I suggest you look into the writings of Tertullian, Eusebius and Irenaeus and they would suggest a date of 2 or 3 BC, which lines up with other Historical facts of the time!
hi Glenn
I think I agree with you. this was written by a guest author. I will pass your comment along to him.
The astronomy software Stellarium was applied as the date source, but there is a flaw with the software calendar.
The software calendar changes from BC to AD with a 0 date in between. That is not accurate.
So, what is presented as 0 year should be 1BC and the count in BC years begins from there. The date of conception occurred during 3 BC.
Thanks for picking up the history that points out the software year calendar flaw.
The signs in the heavens tells us He was conceived Feasts of Tabernacles (Sept 3 BC) and born 9 months later – 17th of
Tammuz. The sign remains – the calendar year is corrected for the record.
As posted in “Noah”, I’ll add this comment here too. Seems folks pick and choose what to read by topic/post.
Because it is a few days away and it may just fit the overall unfolding of “end of the age”…The 9th of Av (July 28) is a very significant date in Hebrew history. The Jerusalem temple was destroyed twice on that date. Hundreds of years apart and both occurred on the same Hebrew calendar day! No coincidence.
Seems to be an appropriate date to crush a few enemies and flatten Damascus. It takes 7 months to clean up and that is just in time for he who rides the “pale” horse (Rev 6) to fulfill Matthew 24:15.
By the way, those responsible for Temple worship in Jerusalem, well – they have the Arc of the Covenant and all the Temple instruments and materials ready for the appropriate time. That time will be evident to all very soon.
Blessings
I can say regarding the Sabbath I agree with him 100% percent. The Holy Spirit for lack of a better word…Speaks to me in a very powerful way to keep the Saturday Sabbath. I have not always done this but I have not always been seeking His face like I have in the last year either. Sad to say I was one of those lukewarm Christians….But, I have been redeemed and the Lord has spoken to me in a mighty way to keep THE Sabbath day. not just “any”…
Deb,
Thanks, I m seriously considering it.
Yes I agree, but there must be consistency. You cannot tell people to keep the 4th commandment or else, if you condone military action that breaks the 6th. Are we to have the absurd scenario where you lay down your weapons on the Sabbath. So lets ask the question: What would Jesus do ?
Blessings.
Well…I actually don’t think Jesus condones war…in any aspect. So, I have to say that I don’t condone what the military of any country does, but I guess all war being prophesied the Lord knew was going to happen anyway whether He condones it or not. I really never gave any thought to what the true Sabbath day was until I delved into scriptures a little over a year ago. I gave my life to Jesus 28 years ago but I sure had not clue what it “really” meant to be a Christian. Many things tested my faith and the result of my child being sexually molested as a young boy and the heartache and grief it has caused for the last 24 years about devastated me but the good thing is it drove me literally to my face seeking the Lord as I never in my life have over the last year. I told the Lord I would seek him as I have never sought him in my life and I did just that and he told me in my “spirit” seek my face and I will fix your problems. Well, he has been true to his word and I have also done exactly what i told him I would do and he has shown me many truths over this last year about who did what to my child ….he did literally answer me as I did not know who did it to my son as he would never tell and he tried to kill himself at 9, 14 and 21 from all that happened in his past. Long story short, the Holy Spirit literally moves in my belly as I ask questions…weird, but true….and he answers my questions and told me all the truths I needed to know and continues to this day to move in me when he wants me to do something or when I read scripture that he wants me to pay attention to…and when I began to read on the Sabbath is something we needed to keep as I comtemplated it…I went shopping not long after that on a Saturday..well…me moved in me and I said Lord are you trying to tell me something..YEP he was:-) …and as few times after I went out to eat on a Saturday before sundown ..well..He moved in me and let me know that He did not want me to do that:-)…He moves in different ways for what He is trying to tell me….good or bad or confirmation of what I read vs what He does not want me to read. Even on this site He will cause movement/pains in my stomach when I do not need to read what someone is saying….I know this sounds weird but it is true. When I went to my knees last year I told the Lord I needed the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth and He has given me much more than I bargained for or ever expected. So…Yes, I can say I believe for me I am to keep the Saturday Sabbath. I think that is something the Lord will speak to each person about. I do not try to enforce this on my husband or friends/family. Most know I am keeping the Saturday Sabbath and think I am a little odd for it but that is ok. It does create a lot of inconvenience as my grandkids are used to me doing everything with them on Saturday that normally involved going somewhere and buying, eating etc…I had to change my entire routine. It was not easy believe me and every now and then I do not honor it but for the most part I would say I do 95% of the time. I am striving for all the time:-) but as most say, it is an adjustment!
Hi Deb,
Thank you for the interesting account of your experiences.
My comment about military action was not intended for you, by the way, but it is worth considering how Sabbath keeping in modern times, embodies a multitude of conscience dilemnas…..
Should Sabbath keepers benefit in any way from those who break the Sabbath?
For example; do Sabbath keepers expect hospitals and emergency services to accommodate them if required on the Sabbath, when Sabbath keepers themselves are not prepared to give of themselves in this way on the Sabbath?
If you had a job that would normally require you to work on Saturday, would it be right for you to expect a Sabbath breaker to stand in for you?
Perhaps these are not particularly good examples, but they do highlight the potential for crisis of conscience.
I have a family member who is a Seventh Day Adventist, and when asked to lay out garden furniture for a Saturday family gathering, did so, but openly expressed his guilt for having done so. Maybe he should have refused his services or abstained from the gathering in the first place, but this also serves to demonstrate how legalistic all this can become; a burden Jesus freed us from.
Yes, Sabbath keeping worked for Israel because her social structure facilitated this, but we simply cannot replicate such a structure in modern times, so we are at the mercy of Sabbath breaking which permeates every aspect of our lives, of which we cannot avoid being beneficiaries.
In view of this, is Sabbath keeping more of a burden than a blessing, knowing that maintaining a clear conscience, in many cases, relies heavily on the exploits of Sabbath breakers, who’s “illicit” actions help to make this fallen world go round? We are to be no part of this world spiritually, but alas we still need our daily bread and butter!
So I’m not convinced Sabbath keeping is mandatory, but then again I’m not convinced that the 4th commandment should be discarded!
Am waiting upon the Lord for the conclusive answer.
We should always praise those who make a stand for God!
Blessings.
I think for sure it is an individual thing for only between you and the Lord on keeping the Sabbath. I never push my views on any of my friends of family. I do not ask them to do anything for me that causes them to buy or sell on the Sabbath but I do not condemn them in the least if they choose not to keep it on Saturday. Actually my husband does not keep the Saturday Sabbath but he as well does not judge me for keeping it. I won’t ask him to go to the store to buy anything on that day but if he chooses to go for something himself then that is his own choice. For me keeping the Sabbath may not be what it is for others. I choose not go buy or sell or cause anyone to work at their job on Saturday. I try to spend more quality time in studying scripture than I do on my daily basis ( athought that is really all I ever want to do :-)…I rest if I want. Now…I think that helping others on a Saturday is something the Lord would agree with…as he healed on the Sabbath. So..I don’t carry it that far. I have an elderly neighbor I fix food for, help her around her house, etc…on Saturdays, do her hair or whatever she needs. I just don’t “work” at my job. I also have been sick where I really needed to go to a doctor on a Saturday but have held off and gone to a clinic on Sunday instead. Not to say a dire emergency may not arise and I may have to someday go on a Saturday but if at all possible I do refrain from this on a Saturday. For me, the Lord has me keeping it on Saturday, but I will not ever judge anyone as I think the Lord speaks to each person about different things at different times in their life.
That’s a sensible and balanced approach!
…..now all you have to do is find a doctor who doesn’t go to church on Sunday! 🙂
Blessings.
LOLOLOL!! Yep! As a matter of fact I rarely ever have to go to the doctor at all but did go to a clinic on this past Sunday…and as he looked at my past records saw i used to have a depression problem and he asked me how that was going…I told him I had been off meds for over a year and felt better than I had in my life and he asked me what I attributed that to…and I said “God”…he just grinned!! but it is the truth, i had sufferered for many years with depression due to the things Satan had oppressed me with but during all the time of what I went thru last year the Lord literally healed me from it and I truely do feel better than I ever felt. I did not have a “chemical depression problem” after all…it was a Satanic attach depresssion/oppression problem and I was on medication for 18 years! I can honestly say the Lord has healed me from the inside out! I am glad some doctors don’t go to church on Sunday 🙂 and when I told this doctor the Lord had healed me I pray it was a testimony…kinda left him speechless!
I’m pleased you are better. Your doctor must have been godsmacked! Yes, there are many causes of depression and I would be inclined to seek medical help as a last resort, purely from the standpoint that I believe spiritual sickness to be the cause of most ills, manifest in various mental and physical symptoms. I would therefore first ask God for healing, trusting that He will provide the solution by whatever means He deems, either of Himself or through the various channels he has permitted to be in place for our benefit, including a corrupt and greedy pharmaceutical industry.
We must never forget that God is also to be seen as a prevention, and we may never know if God has been active in keeping us in good health, so it is important to continually ask Him for good health with gratitude and thanksgiving.
Strangely enough, I have not seen a doctor for about 33yrs, but am going next week for an m.o.t. due to my age; and if he should ask me why I haven’t been for so long, I will just have to tell him that I have been ill. 🙂
Thanks for your testimony; may need to call upon it!
Blessings.
I am sure you will be found a picture of perfect health!:-) I am praying for good health for sure in these next couple of months/years as what we will have to endure will need the protection of the Lord! Our God is an awesome God…
Thanks Deb and may Yahweh be your refuge and keep you in good health through the difficult times ahead!
Blessings to you.
Funny that Luke happened to be a Physician though.
No so funny when one considers that Luke worked in harmony with God and His natural healing substances, that to this very day are available in abundance. With a less haughty attitude and a deeper understanding and appreciation of God’s creative excellence and all the good things he provides, we may just be healed by the Lord Himself; prevented from an illness in the first place, or guided to something that could be of benefit to us, in preference to modern pharmaceuticals, as a reward for recognizing Him as a Father who truly cares, which is evident in the many thousands of medicinal plants He has created for our benefit. Please know the difference between a physician in harmony with God, and the one most are likely to place their trust in. Also know that acknowledging these things and praising God for His provisions, could serve as preventative medicine, as we know that God shows mercy to whom He chooses! Our Father does indeed work in mysterious ways, and if one should find oneself in front of an orthodox medical doctor, then again, praise God because nothing exists without His consent, and He will take the good from all things imperfect as part of His provisions.
May the Lord guide us in every detail of our lives, knowing that we are to not first put our trust in earthling man.
COLOSSIANS 2:16
» 16 † ¶ Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
God bless you all –
Thanks Tom,
That is one of many verses I have taken into consideration, and firmly believed until recently that Sabbath keeping is not mandatory. But…..
Blessings.
The Holy day is the Holy Spirit that you walk in everyday. Sabbath in OT is the Holy Spirit Rest in the NT – Jesus said come unto me and I will give you rest. God bless
James,
It’s been good conversing with you tonight despite any differences, but when it comes to being out of Babylon, I know from what you believe overall, that you are one of the few who are, so keep up the good Berean work.
I know from my own experience that persecution comes not just from the world but sadly from “within”; and it all starts when you do the decent thing and leave paganism behind; oh, and that not so small matter of hell fire and torment; but we won’t go there! (if you’ll pardon the pun).
Many blessings to you!
p.s…and Bro.Tom of course. Thanks.
Thanks for the info Brother James– Now I would like to share this with you and Bro. Richard or anyone that would like to know what is the MUST to do to have Salvation = deliverance from sin
ROM. 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if ANY MAN HAVE NOT THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST,HE IS NONE OF HIS. Hey Lets repeat that again – ANY MAN HAVE NOT THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST,HE IS NONE OF HIS.—— Paul just takes it for granted that real Christians have the Holy Ghost IN THEM — it is NOT A OPTION then or now YEA not an OPTION it is a MUST HAVE
ACTS 2:37 — Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? = DO – We got to do something was their question what was it. Read next verse
ACTS 2:38–Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
ROM. 8:10– And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
ROM 8:11– But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
ROM. 8:12– Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
ROM. 8:13 — For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. –
THE HOLY SPIRIT IS THE ONLY PERSON THAT CAN MORTIFY YOUR BODY From all its lusts, evil, sin and unbelief –
You cannot be HOLY without the HOLY SPIRIT LIVING “IN YOU” it is your LIFE SOURCE that gives you Power to OVERCOME SIN and Unrighteousness.
Jesus Christ fulfilled every ioda of the law by his life. And in the sermon on the mount – The Law was impossible for man to do without Power from Above – Impossible without Love for God, and Your fellow man. Jesus brought it down to them two commands that you must do.
Those 2 Commandments is received to you when you RECEIVE the infilling of Christ Himself. He did it all for us – By paying the Ransom for our sin and then giving us POWER to live like HIM. Becoming and Exact Copy of the Word made flesh. The Holy Spirit is the “MARK OF GODS IMAGE AND CHARACTER IN YOU” . The only way you can “conquer sin’ is to have the Great Conquer in you called Christ”. Not just a bunch of does and don’ts. We have already You receive the Holy Spirit by FAITH. Then you still must let God have His way and become completely surrendered to Christ. All the disciples were confused, powerless over fear, wrong in doctrine, up to the day of Pentecost. And remember Judas never even made it that far. He never was one of them.
And then Everyday is as a Holy day unto the Lord – Not just Sabbath day. Jesus is the Sabbath day. Not just one day a week. Eph. 4:30 You are sealed -Means A finished work.
If any man thinks he can sin with impunity all the time – He does not have the Holy Ghost – It will guide you to all truth – that is the Evidence of the Holy Spirit living IN YOU – not going back and living under the law again. Here is what Paul said about it.
GAL. 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
GAL. 2:21- I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
GAL. 3:7- Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. Did Abraham make it to heaven. They wasn’t even a law then. But HE believed God and it was accounted to him as Righteousness.
GAL. 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
GAL 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. – you know Peter and a few Apostles was getting read to just do that. Until the Prophet Paul came and straightened them out. You see that could be taught yet still. Im so glad Paul knew the Word or every man to day would have to become circumcised at conversion. — The circumcision was a “Shadow” of the Cutting off of the flesh by the Sword of the Spirit – it’s the Spirit that sets you apart and sanctifies you and fills you with the Holy Ghost = Christ himself.
GAL. 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. This is whats wrong with the whole church system of today. They preach the gospel with a twist of error – and a little leaven will leaven the whole lump eventually.
A. Every denomination today build their church on a couple true revelations and then organize it to keep it safe from anybody that disagrees with them. One little doctrine is their chief cornerstone they build on. They just damned up the stream of Life=the Spirit of God cause they cannot receive anything else after that. And they commend themselves by themselves just like the Pharisee’s did. Amen – Praise God don’t you just LOVE THE WORD of GOD
GAL. 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
GAL. 5:18- But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Just 2 of my favorite Verses in the bible below –
GAL.6:2 Bear ye one another’s burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
JAMES 2:8 If ye fulfil the ROYAL LAW according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
I love the Truth how about you all. Can any of you say AMEN –
p.s. “within” meaning the so called Body of Christ.
Jesus said, “If those who lead you say, ‘See, the Kingdom is
in the sky,’ then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they
say to you, ‘It is in the sea,’ then the fish will precede you.
Rather, the Kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you.
When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and
you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living
Father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty
and it is you who are that poverty.”
true
Deb – do you still want to keep the sabbath or did you even read my post. Here is one maybe you can discuss on this one ok. God bless you sister. Some things there is no “Option” you have to have it to do it.
Alot of people just do not have an “Ear to Hear what the Spirit saith unto the church’s”. To hear is to “Understand” could this be the reason millions do not understand the bible. Though they go to church every week.
When the Word is alien to most Christians then the church you going to is in bad shape. How can you learn algebra and dont know your ABC’s yet. If the shoe fits then take this message in a loving way that is the way I have given it. Not trying to condemn no one.
13:MATTHEW 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 . For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13. Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
MATTHEW 13:14
14. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15. For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16. But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
MATTHEW 13:19
19. When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
20. But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21. Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23. But he that RECEIVED SEED IN THE GOOD GROUND is he that HEARTH THE WORD, AND UNDERSTANDETH IT; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
Fruit bearing is knowing the Word – Understanding the Word.
The Mysteries are just revealed to those who really, really, want to know it. Not just somebody you looking for who thinks the same way you do. Prophets were never popular – They Spoke for God personally – Yet the people could not understand their speech.
Hey Deb,
I don’t know about you but I think I’ll stick with honoring the Ten Commandments. I will try not to murder, lie or steal nor will I commit adultery, even though Tom says it is OK If I do. I will also take no gods before YWH even If Tom says I can worship the Antichrist. And unlike Adam, I will refrain from praying to statues of dead people as If they were actually able to hear me from their graves.
Oh yeah, I will also try to honor the true Sabbath and I will never honor the mark of the beast and practice Sunday Sabbath. Even though Tom says it’s OK to do so.
I find it amazing the lengths some people (many) go to misinterpret God’s word and intentions so they can feel better about themselves and make their lives a bit easier.
So God really doesn’t give a crap about how his people live their lives? He doesn’t care how they treat each other or how they treat Him? Really? And will that logic continue after Jesus takes His earthly throne? Can we lie, cheat and steal thru the millennium? Mob hits will be OK If kept to a minimum. Praying to idols of gold or porn stars should be fine too, right?
And God’s holy day, the one He told us to remember – the one he made holy for us to honor Him on – that will be eliminated too? You’ve got to ask yourself “What WILL Jesus do, when he returns that is? Will his government have any rules at all? Just believe in Him and then do whatever we want, right?
Does this sound logical to anyone out there?
Believe me, there WILL be rules, and they will start with the Ten Commandments.
As to whether they are in effect during the tribulation, here is what the Book of Revelation has to say:
Revelation 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
You can either ignore these verses or interpret them to me “some of the commandments.”
Or just follow them. You either follow God or follow the beast.
The choice is yours.
One has to swear an oath to recieve the mark of the beast. If one does not, then one can not buy, and sell.
I don’t know why you ignor that part of the Bible. The mark is not Sunday worship. The beast is not the Pope.
Tell me, what religion are you James? So, I can go look it up. It is a very strange Christianty you preach.
James
Sanctifying Sundays and celebrate Easter and Christmas are a way to celebrate Jesus. Jesus will not punish someone for doing it. I think you are quite right that follows the 10 commandments.
Here is what God has to say about Christmas:
Jer 10:1 Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
Jer 10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
Jer 10:3 For the customs of the people [are] vain: for [one] cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
Jer 10:4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
So go ahead and deck the halls this Christmas. Join the heathens. Then see If Jesus cares.
Good luck beating the rap on this one. 🙂
James
The Old Testament does not apply to us Christians. Only the 10 Commandments. If we were to follow the Old Testament we would be Jews and we are not. I cut my hair and mix milk with meat etc. As we have recognized that Jesus is the messiah we need not follow the Old Testament, but we just need to take all our decisions with love. Christianity is about love. I know that Jesus is Happy that we celebrate Christmas and Easter on a Sunday when Jesus rose. But I also know that the judgment will not Manag to celebrate Christmas when Jesus will not be popular. The Pope changed so that Easter was not celebrated at the same time as the Jews celebrate Passover to commemorate Jesus. The Pope is Jesus to represent him and he is entitled to do so. He knows what he must do and what not. But you call the Catholic Church of Babylon is a sin in itself. Babylon the Great in the United States and you are a part of it. As long as you write something negative about our church and I’ll write a shortage of United States and the Protestant Church.
Capice
I read your post and I can tell you the Holy Spirit is for sure in me and moves in my belly all day directing me…thru the good and the bad…admonishes me when I get an attitude He does not approve of, when I read his word, when I read yours and others post, when I pray, He lets me know He is there. He also moves in me to keep the Saturday Sabbath. That is what He speaks to me. I am not telling you that you need to that is between you and God. I seek the Lord literally without ceasing all day it seems. I pray and talk to Him all day as I work…I feel like I keep a Sabbath every day seeking his will …yes. I just take it one step further and do as He directs ME to on the Saturday Sabbath. I also do not force it on others. That is not my place. They need to read the scriptures and seek His face and find out for themselves/yourself. Just like any of the 10 commandments, it is not my place to tell you to keep them. I keep them as best as I humanly can…ALWAYS seeking to be held worthy and accountable when I see His face at His return. I do not have time to worry or admonish anyone else to lead a holy life…my desire is to live it and pray that someone sees something in me that might make them desire to know Jesus. But in the meantime, I am also SHOUTING…loudly HE is coming soon. Repent, seek him as you have never in your life and discover what He expects.
I have one question to you all out there?
When Jesus will hold his first speach from the Vatican soon. If he says only Catholic and Ortodox Christians are Christians and if he says that they will send plagues over the protestantic church to try to kill them with fire and brimstones from heaven. And when you die you will be locked in a empty room in heaven forever. that will be your eternal life.
Will you make war against him or if you are to old or are a woman will you send your son to make war against him?
Well Adam,
I’m just glad that nothing you believe in is actually in the bible. I’m not sure its even in the catechism. Well, the Catholic church makes up so much crap, who even knows.
But to answer your question, If Jesus pulled a stunt like that I would question why he let Roman emperors and corrupt human beings chaNGE HIS COMMANDMENTS AND MAKE UP A BUNCH OF RIDICULOUS doctrines while he was away. What was the point of providing us with the word of God If anyone with a little authority in the church can change it just cause he feels like it.
Yeah, that’s what I would ask him.
So there.
🙂
James
First of all. You will not have the oppurtunity to ask him questions. And if you would I know what Jesus would answer. He would say that the Pope is stand in for him and has the power to chance things. Jews are not allowed to change anything in their faith. But we Christians have the right to build up our fiath the way we want. We are not bundled to the old testament. Don´t forgett Jesus has 2 children on Earth right now and both of them are born on sundays. Speciall Sundays. Holy Virign Mary announcemet day and firt Trinity sunday. Regarding sunday worshipping.
You say that the The summer solstice festival is a pagan day. Let me say that Jesus wifes birthpains started on this day. It´s a special day and the Mayan told us this is the day when we have best contact with God.
You say that the Holy water is a pagan practise. Let me tell you like this. Maria Magdalena is living on earth and she has plagued Jesus with evil spirits and the holy water helped him. Without the holy water he would probably been dead now. There is so much that you talk bad words over that is holy so I think it´s time for you to cool down. If Jesus had been Baptised in the protestantic church this time he would not survive because you don´t have the holy water in your faith. So please man try to understand that protestantic church is Idolatry and your family should never left Italy.
Surely you don’t believe all this crap you just wrote above? I pray that you will seek the truth. I am telling you that you will be thrown with the rest of the tares where they all will go when Jesus returns. and if this is what your “priest” is telling you whew! he better watch out. You don’t have much time to change your mind so I pray you do it fast before all you know what starts happening! If you died today it would not be pretty what happens to your soul. And if you think you can convince true believers and seekers of God’s TRUTH then you might as well go to another site.
deb
No one is teaching me anything. I´m here to discuss. This is a discussion blog.
You are right…my apologies!
Deb – do you still want to keep the sabbath or did you even read my post. Here is one maybe you can discuss on this one ok. God bless you sister. Some things there is no “Option” you have to have it to do it.
Alot of people just do not have an “Ear to Hear what the Spirit saith unto the church’s”. To hear is to “Understand” could this be the reason millions do not understand the bible. Though they go to church every week.
When the Word is alien to most Christians then the church you going to is in bad shape. How can you learn algebra and dont know your ABC’s yet. If the shoe fits then take this message in a loving way that is the way I have given it. Not trying to condemn no one.
13:MATTHEW 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 . For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13. Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
MATTHEW 13:14
14. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15. For this people’s heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16. But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
MATTHEW 13:19
19. When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
20. But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21. Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23. But he that RECEIVED SEED IN THE GOOD GROUND is he that HEARTH THE WORD, AND UNDERSTANDETH IT; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
Fruit bearing is knowing the Word – Understanding the Word.
The Mysteries are just revealed to those who really, really, want to know it. Not just somebody you looking for who thinks the same way you do. Prophets were never popular – They Spoke for God personally – Yet the people could not understand their speech.
Tom York said this on July 6, 2012 at 1:48 am | Reply
Some people have learned so much that their learning has driven out all their common sense.
That is what Jesus wants us to do – get rid of common sense cause that is carnal and will not open up the mysteries of God’s word to you. It takes the Holy Spirit to take you into the dimensions of the word. It will come to the ignorant and unlearned the Bible says. That made me a good student for the Truth. Praise God – – If we would let go of our thinking then you could hear the Voice of God – God is found in simplicity and that is so confusing to a world that leans strickly on knowledge of man. Look at debths of confusion that is in the whole world. Politicians make a speech you dont even know what they were saying. Doctors, same – Theologians talk and by the time they done with a simple scripture it is Babylon – They would have to become ignorant again to get back to simple explanations – The scriptures say and teach that we have to empty ourselves out of all our thinking to except Christ Mind – It takes a transformation. May the Lord God bless you “evangelist” by shutting down your mind to let Him speak to you – that humbles us all to say the least.
Bro. Tom
I think cornish has both his head and heart in the right place. 🙂
Let not all your wisdom be in your books, or you may die a fool.
Hi Richard,
I just had the opportunity to read your reply above, (where there was no room for me to reply) where I simply said that it was “funny that Luke happened to be a Physician”.
I am sorry that you apparently mistook that comment as somehow being haughty, for that was not my intention at all?
And agree with the rest of what you say above too. 🙂
Praise Yeshua our Precious Savior.
Amen
No Alienated, it wasn’t meant for you dear brother…you are more intelligent than that! 🙂 Sorry, clumsy writing on my part. I was referring to those who consider themselves above recognition of the simple things that God has bestowed upon us, knowing all that all He provides, works for the good for those who worship Him.
Too many believers have allowed themselves to be enticed into believing that Doctor PhD knows best, and consequently look down their noses at Mr. Greenleaf as he exudes his oxygen and therapeutic aroma directly into their nostrils. Well, Dr. Phil. knows a lot, but if he does not know God and the wonder of His creation, then he knows too little, but we must acknowledge that he does keep in his cabinet a few useful smarties that God knows about; and can take apart the human body and put it back together again, even though he does not acknowledge the life force (ruach/pneuma) that sustains it.
We must be grateful to God for all He provides and permits, that serves to prolong life and maintain health in a very sick, debilitated and imperfect world, through whatever medium he should individually lead us to; but the least we can do for Him in return is to be awe stricken and take advantage of the wonderous economy he has provided us with, that will always transcend the partial knowledge of earthling man. Now go and eat some dandelions! Yes, that’s right, dandelions..is there a problem..(?).they grow everywhere! 🙂
Blessings.
Too funny Richard.
Agreeing and giggling through it all.
Very entertaining. 🙂
Praise Yeshua our Precious Savior.
a.
Amen Tom. So many scholars so much wisdom. One of the points in this posting is that the scholars of the Temple and court did not see or recognize “The Star” but the wise men from the East did as they were led by the Lord to find Him.
The scholars also were blind to the events of the day of the cross, recalling Joel’s prophetic verses. Peter reminded them.
The Lord reveals Himself through the Word and to those that humble themselves.
I know nothing but what I know is Christ Jesus. He is “The Word of God”.
Revelation seems to come slowly and quietly, He is patient and full of Murcy and Grace.
Our objectives are “seek first the Kingdom (righteousness, peace and joy in the Spirit) and His righteousness (Blood of the Lamb that takes away the sin of the world) and as
Peter reminds us to strive – “be holy as He is Holy”. Obey the commandments of love the Lord with all we have and our neighbor also applies but does comeforth when I seek first and strive to be holy.
Lots of discussion posted over the past few
days.
Al, interesting thoughts on Nimrod and the seed. BHO has that code name, along with another that are revealing/informative. There is something about bloodlines that may become evident soon.
As for the “not appointed to wrath” phrase – consider the “wrath” verses within Romans 2. I don’t expect His wrath appointment as a believer but expect to see it soon.
Hi DJ,
Were you referring to the post that I made on July 6th. @ 8:01 pm, (about 65 Gravatar’s up counting yours, as I write this)?
I woke up with that going through my mind at 3:00 am. that morning.
So when I got up I compiled it and posted it.
I Just do what I feel lead to do, (if you know what I mean).
Be Blessed my brother.
Praise Yeshua our Precious Savior. Our Glorious KING of kings.
Amen.
Concerning prophecies and revelations, this is what the word has to say:
“Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world” (I John 4:1).
How do we try the “spirits”? Is it not through scripture that has been already given? Even as according to Solomon, there is nothing new under the sun, basically meaning, that which has been is that which will be. If we are doing something new and different and disregarding that which has been “given by Yah” from the beginning, then are we in error. So, who are we to believe, even if someone says “thus saith the Lord”? Saying that is not a personal attack on anyone who might have said this. None of this is personal, but rather general in nature.
We basically interpret scripture according to how we personally choose to understand it. Most will then look for those who corroborate there view, by either accepting certain scriptures that validate their position while dismissing others that invalidate their beliefs. It can be seen plainly by how the Church has divided the scriptures into two separate parts: the Old Testament and the New Testament, all the while, Judaism is doing the same by only recognizing the Tanakh and rejecting the Renewed Covenant.
Definition of OLD
1
a: dating from the remote past : ANCIENT b: persisting from an earlier time c: of long standing
8
a: showing the effects of time or use : WORN, AGED b: no longer in use : DISCARDED c: of a grayish or dusty color d: TIRESOME
Since this is basically a Christian website I am going to approach this from that viewpoint. So, what is new and what is old? Yah made covenants (basically agreements) with man to keep man walking and moving in His direction, with promises of both blessings and curses, depending on their obedience, or the lack thereof to His Word. Christianity has disallowed those covenants from the past that interfere with their “New” theology, while Judaism has refused the Renewed Covenant because it interferes with their religious traditions and beliefs. Why is it that we believe the earth will never be destroyed by water again and hold fast to the covenant Yah made with Noah, but reject the Covenant that Yah Made with Moses? We construe the writings of the “Renewed” Covenant with having discarded and abolished the Mosaic Covenant, while “allowing” the others to stand as being intact! It is even to the point that the Ten Commandments should not be kept. But this is not the focus of what I am saying. I am just building a foundation for what I am about to say.
So, what is the outcome, if you have a person who fervently loves Yah and seeks after Him, while pivotal parts of his theology are false, but in a highly charged moment of emotional elation believes the Spirit is giving him a revelation or word? Is it not highly likely that parts of what he is prophesying or saying will be wrong or false due to the fact of rejecting certain scriptures that he deems as obsolete? Does that make the person evil or his salvation of no affect? No! But it does show the lack of understanding we have in these last days concerning the Word of Yah, and allows those who participate in such things to be labeled as a false prophet or giving out false words that are attributed to Yah. I am not judging anyone here (I have no authority or right to do that), just saying we need to approach all of this with “sobriety”.
To take it a step further “I” do believe that the Spirit can be moving on someone and for them to still get it wrong:
1 Corinthians 14:32
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
32 Also, the prophets’ spirits are under the prophets’ control;
I know the context is somewhat different, but I do believe the principle applies. I do believe we all have some bad theology (you know, that pesky being imperfect thing) which does not make us bad, but can cause a word or reaction to be somewhat less than what was intended, which does make it possibly wrong and even false, even though our motives seemed right. As I said, I am not speaking about anyone or anything that has been said, just giving “my” understanding of all this.
Be Blessed
Al,
You are talking out of your hat here, and your argument is without foundation.
Simply because I, (and the majority of believers), happen to vehemently disagree with you regarding what you believe to be the Commandments that are still in affect, (with your understanding being contrary to what Yeshua our KING has stated Himself), does not negate the validity of what I have said at all.
(We could actually use your same argument for all of those that believe as I do, to simply dismiss, and disregard anything that you may have to say also.)
Above you will note that I utilized both scripture from the Tanakh, and Hebrew as evidentiary support to clarify and substantiate what I feel that I was lead to understand as as to why. Which in my opinion, that would nullify your argument in itself.
All I have done is relayed that of my experience, without any care whatsoever regarding consequence or damage done to my reputation or personal credibility.
The only error that I made, (which I have explained and apologized for), was my incorrect association to the “gathering” being on the last Shavu’ot, and this was only because of the immediacy that I experienced within the Vision.
I will not bother to correspond with you further regarding this Al. (Or anything else for that matter.) Receive it or don’t receive it, it makes no difference to me.
Cast dispersions as much as you like. I will rest in the fact that I was obedient to the best of my ability, and will allow for Yeshua our Precious Savior to decide the matter Himself at the Bema Seat of Mercy.
I will leave you with this from the Tanakh though which is specific to that of end times;
28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: Joel 2:28.
To all, Be Blessed in Yeshua our Precious Heavenly Savior. Our KING of kings and LORD of lords.
Amen.
Alienated,
I am sorry you took this the way you did. It was actually meant more for James and anyone else who cared to read it. I tried to post it under his post concerning these things and it threw me pretty far down the thread, so I just went to the bottom. I didn’t even pay attention to the post above where I was writing. This was the post James wrote:
“Hello everyone,
I’ve been reading recent posts with great interest. So many people have been visited by the Holy Spirit or have even spoke directly to God, it seems certain that something is going to happen very soon.
Unfortunately, everyone has a different story to tell, so I’m having trouble sifting the wheat from the chaff, so to speak.
And then there is the guy on a different topic here who has methodically calculated the date of the rapture from the Jewish calendar, and has every tribulation event timed out exactly to the day, starting with the rapture this coming Saturday. Crap, I was going to have a barbecue that day! I guess those who are left behind can party without me, oh well.
Anyway, my point is that I want to commend everyone for sharing your dreams, visions, revelations etc in such specific detail. It gives me something to look for in the coming days. Of course the big problem is, what happens when these “certainties” fail to happen? In the case of the gentleman with the calendar calculations, If even one event fails to occur, then the entire timeline falls apart.
And If Nibiru fails to show up on Dec. 21st, others (you know who you are) will be devastated. Their entire belief system hinges on a specific event on a specific date. What will that mean? Like Mohammed and the “Satanic Verses” it could only mean that it was all just a trick by the devil. Jesus said it would be this way, and to be very careful or even the very elect would be fooled.
So I appreciate the fact that you are willing to put your Christian integrity on the line here. I hope you are right, I’d like the millennium to get here ASAP. But those who know me know I’m the skeptical voice of reason on this site, so you will pardon me If I don’t just jump on board with these predictions.
As much as I might like to, I can not. Not just because I know they are wrong, but I take Jesus’ warning seriously. Who here wants to get in bed with a false prophet, especially one who professes to have spoken to God Himself? So I’m going to do a wait and see on these predictions, and when the time comes I’ll try my best not to pull out the “I told you so” card. But don’t count on that.
it’s kinda what I do around here.
Bless, and good luck.”
Even though it may seem to be personal, it is not. These things have been going on since the beginning. It is a hard thing to broach and I tried to make it faceless. It honestly was in response to what James said and is something I have basically written on before, at least concerning the covenants of the Tanakh. I was only trying to bring some clarity to what James had said and nothing more. The last thing I wanted to do was to offend anyone, but given the nature of all this, I guess that is just about impossible. I bear you no ill will and hope for you only the best in Messiah Yahshua!!
Be Blessed My Brother
sometimes it is possible for agreeing parties to discuss something so much, they end up appearing to disagree.
good time for a break from the subject.
Al,
I wish you no ill will either, and I apologize for my error in believing that your post was specifically addressed to me.
However, by some of the content that you expressed within your post consisting of , 1 John 4:1, “Thus saith the Lord”, etc. and with it being directly under one of my own, I am sure that you can understand the reason for that error.
Again though you and I disagree on some specific Biblical subjects, I also wish you only the best in Yeshua HaMashiach.
He is the ultimate Judge of our hearts.
Again my apologizes.
Shalom
Praise be to Yeshua our Precious Savior. Our Glorious KING of kings and LORD of lords. May all make Him their first priority in their lives and worship Him, for He is our Blessed Hope, and the Worthy Lamb.
Amen.
a.
Alienated,
I do understand why you thought what you did. I would have probably thought the same thing had the tables been turned. I appreciate your understanding.
Be Blessed my brother
I have to say Al July 10, it was a most intuitive piece and said far better than many of us could say it, but, it is true what you have said and I truly appreciated it because it is still the warning from the Lord that should never leave any of us if we truly are listening to Him and not just a warning to watch the flesh or the wrong spirit and there is no problem with being careful like that is there? I am sure most of us might feel convicted under it because most of us realize how we are always in learning stages in different parts of our lives over time.
You did a good job of bringing clarity Al. Thanks. I realize it could have been anyone of us but it is an important truth nevertheless and done with a good heart.
The voice of reason and truth is always with those who loves the Lord and it is often difficult for many to hear or receive, the truth because we all know the truth hurts is not just a common saying but, a fact and those with good hearts will receive it in the Spirit it is given when they are able.
Good meat to the soul.
Hi Marie Jean,
I appreciate your response. I am not accustomed to much positive feed back, thank you for that. I just want to say that I love your zeal and passion for Israel. I possess a lot of the same and understand that it is a special thing to know and understand these things. I pray that Yah will use you mightly in these last days to help bring light and understanding to those who are the “hidden ones”!
Be Blessed Marie Jean!!!
SOMETHING TO THINK ON
Genesis 10:8 And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth.
Genesis 10:9 He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD.
Soon the world will follow the foot steps of the controversial health care bill passed by the American congress headed by Mr Obama. Long and short is if they control your health they control every aspect of your life. They planning on linking a electronic device to your medical aid and link that to your bank account.
There is no space here to write everything we can say on this but time is up, the world is finished. The dollar and the Euro is going down soon.Convert your cash into something tangible while you can…time is up
!Here in Africa they are talking about the Chin-Africa..no need to go into details. China will be the strong ones soon, America will become a third world country thanks to Mr. Obama.
On he American dollar bill is the Latin words “Novus Ordo Seclorum” meaning s “A New Order of the Ages”.Long and short is they first create total chaos and out of the “chaos” they create “order” ..so called new world order.The freedom we have now is considered a old world order. .the new order is total facism which consist of two classes of people…1. Super Rich and 2. Super Poor.
to tom york – something to think on is that the scripture Genesis 10: 8 Genesis 10:8 And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth.
Should read – he became is incorrect trans… he-chel – should read – to pollute, defile, profane –
he began
chalal (khaw-lal’)
to bore, i.e. (by implication) to wound, to dissolve; figuratively, to profane (a person, place or thing), to break (one’s word), to begin (as if by an opening wedge) instruments, pollute, (cast as) profane (self), prostitute, slay (slain), sorrow, stain, wound.
Genesis 10:9 He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD.
actually it should read He was a mighty hunter against the Lord , if taking consideration of its root so many say it should read turned away or against the Lord….
Your concern against public health care for all has not seemed to hurt most of us in Europe, England, Canada, Australia… I suspect youchase the wind Tom in that concern. Though whether it matters if the scripture above must be reconsidered under its real meanings in the original text.
I am very concerned over the liberal left and pro-islamic mess that Obama is obviously bringing his life and country to. It is a greater danger than most are even willing to be worried about today but Islam is the beast and is the Babylon that grew up slaughtering before us all and has been totally ignored by Christianity chasing will o the wisps in their doctrines. I would be more concerned for that than health care Tom.
Hi Marie Jean,
I pray that you are well.
This why I say what I have said somewhere above in this thread, regarding how this, (along with Jeremiah 25:9-16.) is all a foreshadowing and relevant to end times.
After the flood, Ham begat Cush, and Cush begat Nimrod, and Nimrod established the kingdom of Babel. In taking into account its variants, Nimrod is rendered in Hebrew as “נִמְרֹד”, (a proper masculine noun), transliterated as “Nimrowd”, (Strong’s 5248), and its primary definition is “rebellion”. Babylon, (or Babel), in Hebrew is “בָּבֶל”, (a proper locative noun), transliterated as “Babel”, (Strong’s 894), is defined as “confusion, (by mixing)”.
Now pay particular attention here, because many have not been able to figure this out, or fully understand this prophecy yet.
This, “confusion by mixing”, can be understood to encompass that of “language”, (as was the first instance in Genesis 11:1-7.) or “also” that of “people” as this would be the case within Revelation when the beast, (satan), ascends from the bottomless pit and infiltrates the world with his minions.
This “confusion of MIXING” is what is meant and described within Daniels interpretation of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream. Read Daniel chapter 2, and specifically that of verses 36 to 45 within this context, and it should become as plain as day. Verse 43 for those that don’t have their Bible in hand is “And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.”
Now in just having read Daniel 2:36-45., and if the Spirit is guiding you in truth, you will have also realized that verses 34 and 35 that describe the “Stone” that “was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet [that were] of iron and clay, and broke them to pieces”, is the very same “stone” that John perceived as being the “millstone” in Revelation 18:21.
The “stone”, if in taking into account the fulness of the original Greek as I have translated and posted before above, is not a literal stone. But is rather, utilized symbolically the first time within Daniel 2:34., to refer to the “speed” of this city’s destruction as in being “one hour”. (Rev. 18:10…17….19.) And utilized the second time within verse 35 symbolically, as being representative to that of Yeshua our Lord.
The parallelism between Daniel 2 and these chapters is self evident.)
Carrying on in respects to substituting “The great city of confusion that lacks understanding” for “Babylon” in Revelation;
Nebuchadrezzar in Hebrew is “נְבוּכַדְנֶאצַּר”, transliterated as “Nĕbuwkadne’tstsar”, (Strong’s 5019) and it is defined as “may Nebo protect the crown”.
God denounces this Nebo within Isaiah 46:1. after telling the people again through Isaiah within the preceding chapter, that He is their God and not to worship another. Within chapter 45, God also makes reference to a people of a future time. In verse 16 He states, “They shall be ashamed, and also confounded, all of them: they shall go to confusion together [that are] makers of idols.”
Also, satan is the true king of confusion, deceit, and hates for people to personally know God through Yeshua. Consequently then, as stated within scripture, (Isaiah 14:4.) he is the true king of Babylon as well. (Verses 5 and 6 of Isaiah 14 there, are described in more detail in Revelation 17 and 18. And the following verses of 7 through 17 describe what will occur “after” this takes place and Yeshua returns.
Therefore Babylon, (though at one time was an actual city), is expressed within the Tanakh, by its Hebraic definitions, “as describing any city that is confused and lacks the true understanding of the One Triune God, and is also mixed with satan and his seed, and has fallen totally into idolatry.” Which as it has many times in the past, provoked God to be angry and jealous.
Everything is interwoven and is relevant because of the repetitive and cyclical nature of Scripture.
Praise Yeshua our Precious and Holy Savior. The Aleph and the Tav.
Amen.
Hello alienated. It is good to talk to some of you again. I have been so busy with so many things I must help with that I have had little time for reading and talking here. There is always so much reading to do. I have read what you have said and agree with the gist of the scripture though Daniel was written so long ago that I do not any longer look for a future Babylon for it is already on all our doorsteps. It has already taken the lands of ancient Babylon Persia actually all the statue of Daniels description is Islam today and is trying to consume the Western and Eastern parts of the world into one and like it says that the clay and the iron do not mix. It is a perfect description of the world condition today, the nations, the continents that are no longer separate but global as one with the statue but that is its’ weakness the East and the West shall never meet ‘East is east and West is west and never the twain shall meet’ is the same as the song of the old singer of the 50’s Jimmy Durante the bones were all connecting in his day of Israel and coming to life Now hear the Words’ of the Lord’ I know He knew what he sang had happened in his day and he sang of it on Ed Sullivan and I am sure only those of us who knew what it really meant understood and heard the Words of the Lord. Funny how so much happens that is ignored but is fullfilling prophecy. We have studied everything you have spoken of too and go over it so many times in our life but see little left except this that may be different than you…we believe the stone that will strike the statue or the nations of the world in this last great world war that will begin on Israels mountains is Yeshua. Do not forget that it is Islam and its’ mouthpiece left liberalist media and the UN that has slaughtered the saints of the ages, Jews and Gentiles saved and they with the whore of Catholicism and those that came out of her has shed the blood of the saints…the seed of satan has spread throughout the earth and that statue makes a perfect description of it all happening today and no matter how much the western left try to force on us all to honor Islam through the UN more than any other we will not mix with clay!
Not for a moment do I believe that any but Christ through His hands and His Kingdom of saints shall any be able to destroy this kingdom on the earth set up of Satan today. as the scripture says clearly, the stone that is cut without hands from mankind or through it and by God shall destroy and set up His Kingdom.Even the order in which it was destroyed is taking place …Rome went first and the other kingdoms followed and Islam that dwells in old Babylon is last to go with everyone else you might say.
Daniel 2: 44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold;
Obamacare is evil.
Tom is not chasing the wind.
it is a system of control, and a method to remove all freedom and rights originally assured by the constitution.
#2. Something to think on –
PERGAMEAN.CHURCH.AGE –
Since the Bible does not deal in the histories of other nations in detail, it will be necessary to search the ancient profane records to find our answer as to how Pergamos became the seat of the Satanic religion of Babylon. The major sources of information will be in records of Egyptian and Grecian culture. The reason for this is that Egypt received her science and mathematics from the Chaldeans and in turn Greece received them from Egypt.
Now since the priests were in charge of teaching these sciences, and since these sciences were used as a part of religion, we already know the key as to how the Babylonish religion gained its strength in these two countries. It is also true that whenever a nation was able to overcome another nation, in due time the religion of the subduer became the religion of the subdued. It is well known that the Greeks had the very same signs of the Zodiac as did the Babylonians; and it has been found in the ancient Egyptian records that the Egyptians gave the Greeks their knowledge of polytheism. Thus the mysteries of Babylon spread from nation to nation until it appeared in Rome, in China, India and even in both North and South America we find the very same basic worship.
PERGAMEAN.CHURCH.AGE –
The ancient histories agree with the Bible that this Babylonish religion was most certainly not the original religion of earth’s early peoples. It was the first to drift away from the original faith; but it was not itself the original one. Historians such as Wilkinson and Mallett have proven conclusively from the ancient documents that at one time all the peoples of the earth believed in ONE GOD, supreme, eternal, invisible, Who by the Word of His mouth spoke all things into existence, and that in His character He was loving and good and just. But as Satan will always corrupt whatever he can, we find him corrupting the minds and hearts of men so that they reject the truth. As he has always attempted to receive worship as though he were God and not the servant and creation of God, he drew worship away from God to the end that he might draw it unto himself and so be exalted. He certainly did accomplish his desire to spread his religion throughout the whole world. This is authenticated by God in the Book of Romans, “When they knew God, they glorified Him not as God, until they became vain in their imaginations, and through darkness of heart accepted a corrupted religion to the extent that they worshipped creatures and not the Creator.”
Remember, Satan was a creature of God (Son of the Morning). Thus we find that where once truth was disseminated amongst men, and all held to that one truth, there later came a day when a vast group turned from God and spread a diabolical form of worship around the world. History bears it out that those of the tribe of Shem that stood with the unchanging truth were in solid opposition to those of Ham who turned away from truth to the devil’s lie. There is no time to engage in a discussion of this; it is merely introduced that you may see there were two religions and two only, and the evil one became world wide.
PERGAMEAN.CHURCH.AGE
Monotheism turned to polytheism in Babylon. The devil’s lie and the devil’s mysteries rose up against the truth of God and the mysteries of God in that city. Satan truly became the god of this world and exacted worship from those that he had duped, causing them to believe that he was truly the Lord.
PERGAMEAN.CHURCH.AGE
The polytheistic religion of the enemy began with the trinitarian doctrine. It was way back there in antiquity that the “one God in three persons” idea came into existence. How strange that our modern theologians have not spotted this; but evidently just as duped by Satan as their forebears were, they still believe in three persons in the Godhead. Let us be shown just one place in Scripture where there is any authority for that doctrine. Is it not strange that while the descendants of Ham went on their way in Satanic worship which involved a basic concept of three gods that there is not one trace of the descendants of Shem believing such a thing or having any ceremonial worship that involved even a type of it? It is not strange that the Hebrews believed, “Hear, O Israel, the Lord thy God is ONE God”, if there were three persons in the Godhead? Abraham, the descendant of Shem, in Genesis 18 saw only ONE God with two angels.
Funny you should mention the false doctrine of the trinity…this is more of where it came from…
http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/trinity.html#_1_4
Hi Tom,
The passage that you quote is Deuteronomy 6:4. (the Shema)
“שְׁמַע יִשְׂרָאֵל יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ יְהוָה אֶחָֽד׃”
“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD:”
The English words “[is] one” were translated from the Hebrew “אֶחָד”, transliterated as “’echad”, (Strong’s 259), which does mean “one” yet in Hebrew it can imply a unity in diversity, and is not an absolute in respects to numerical identity.
The word for “one and only one”, as being “unique” would be the transliterated Hebrew “yachid“.
As well, within the verse above the English “our God” is from the Hebrew “אֱלֹהִים”, or the plural ‘Elohiym.
There isn’t enough space to fully explain this all here. Perhaps you will find this link helpful.
http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Names_of_G-d/Trinity/trinity.html
Praise Yeshua our Holy and Precious Savior. Blessed be our Glorious and Worthy Lamb.
Amen.
Be Blessed.
Turkey has been under the Caliphs Mohammedan religion that worships the vile demi-god allah these 1400 years… are you blind Tom that you search so shallow…. there is no other secret to be unearthed…all scripture lays before you and the blood of the saints that cry out from these terrible lands consumed by Islam and slowly returning under a new caliphate head (no arab spring this for it is as old as the hills, caliphate islamism thousand year rule) will cry out until Islam and all it has consumed like a voracious beast shall be judged and feel the wrath of a God that will soon say it is enough.
You look in vain Tom York for all the first 7 churches and all the churches and synagogues and their saints are butchered raped, forced conversion and destroyed and their lands are almost emptied of the saints and these bones we see lay about everywhere for those with eyes to see have already got flesh and begun to stand on her feet . But Israels bones have come to life and for all Islams’ violent screaming against her, she shall be that which summons their destruction for desiring Israels destruction and shaking their fists at the Living God and His Prophecies fulfilled. Israels bones have flesh and breathes … open your eyes for she is alive and so are some of the Lords’ gentile saved, the other witness is waking up from a long sleep invoked by Islam…. watch and see.
Ramadan started tonight when the horns of the bull were spotted in the sky. The world system loves them some moon god worshipers.
Tammuz will show up soon to lead the world to it’s final destruction.
sounds like bull to me….
ha ha
joke!
Thanks Alienated – It’s good to hear from you. Lord bless you. Hope this clarifies the Godhead for many.
In the Bible every time you read the word LORD – that is singular – and Means the “SELF EXISTENT ONE = Yahweh ”
The Main thing to me is God is called the “LORD GOD” in the Bible many, many times especially in Isa. and the Prophets.
NOW the word “GOD” IN THE O.T IS ELOYHIM – means a plurality of manifestations of One God.
When I go to my Earthy or dads house ” I am a Son” When I go to visit my children “I am a Father” – When I go to my Wife I am a Husband – When with Cousins I am a relative because of my blood line to them so they call me Cousin – Nephews call me Uncle – my brothers call me brother.
You and I have many different qualities and attributes yet it took dispensations of time to FULLFILL all our attributes that we were BORN WITH .
So in the dispensation of the beginning of time the “Creator Father” Created the Earth and all things with mankind.
The Mystery:
The FATHER WAS OVER US IN FATHER HOOD the CREATOR.
Next was SONSHIP when HE CAME TO LIVE WITH US and WALK WITH US and Die for us.
Then GOD the SPIRIT of the HOLY GHOST dispensation. God came to DWELL IN US – this is the mystery of our New Creation and of Gods plan of salvation in very simple terminology.
God has many different “Mask” HE veils Himself with. Father hood — We would have never knew what kind of God He was without the Savior Attribute appearing and we felt, His and our pain, and walked with God.
If we never had a Savior God attribute to die for us as a mere human. The God in Flesh attribute made it possible for the sacrifice of the Lamb to Open the door for All that would come and receive the NEW CREATION Birth. God had to become a man for it had to be the “Blood of Perfection” to take away all our sins.
So God “Masked” Himself in a VEIL of Flesh and Blood to achieve that sacrifice yet the same God all the time in a “Unique” human body= sinless – not born by sex desire but by the Word of God.
Now In Jesus Christ dying and sanctifying you with His Grace made it possible for you to receive God the Holy Spirit. Jesus said the Father was a “Spirit” Yes indeed the “HOLY SPIRIT.
NOW GOD – Yahweh the Father Creator, along with the Son of God, the same spirit in flesh Can receive GOD HIMSELF the HOLY SPIRIT because the veil that had you bound to the Tree of Death had been taken away.
That is the Absolute truth to it. No 3 Persons of God – Only 1 Person of God in Three different manifestations of God Himself. I can say that is “Thus saith the Lord” by the authority of the Scriptures and the Spirit of God manifestation through the Written WORD of God. Saying there is 3 persons of God is absolutely saying there is 3 gods – If English is English, Hebrew is Hebrew, Greek is Greek – Yes it is spiting hairs as we use to say. But you need to know the “Absolute unadulterated Word of God” are you will be deceived by man. Jesus told His disciples “I have told you ALL THINGS” can we all say this with our doctrinal beliefs. If you cannot then please do not make them “Thus Saith the Lord” that is a scary thing to say. You had better know what you are talking about.
Nimrod turned the Truth of the One God and One Truth into a Pagan godhead of poly. Came up with the Mother of God and her son. Sounds like the greatest Christian denomination in the world. And all you other denominational believers get mad if someone tries to tell you different. And say its alright. And oh we suppose to love them aint we. Yes indeed – Loving is telling them the Truth of the Gospel. The Very foundation of the True Gospel starts with who is God. That is the First Mystery we all should know. Then when you get baptized in the NAME – singular you know its right and the Disciples testified that it was by baptizing them in that Name on the “day of Pentecost“ or the Church started the whole thing out WRONG- But Jesus said in Matt. 28:19 baptize in the NAME =singular of Father, son, and Holy Ghost. Now you know what the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost is. Lord Jesus Christ –
COLOSSIANS 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the NAME of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
ISAIAH 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and HIS REDEEMER the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
ISAIAH 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
ISAIAH 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.
HOSEA 13:4 Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.
If I put on a “Mask” of a Lion and then take it off and “Mask Myself” as a Lamb its still the same Person behind the Mask. ONE GOD –
I TIMOTHY 3:16 – And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
I TIMOTHY 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
ORDER OUT OF CHAOS
Marie jean – It is good to hear from you again. Hope all is well with you.
Like I have tried my best to explain when making a Post – Its about a 5 to10 minute read and you cannot explain everything in one post. The Bible is not a Microwave that instantly you see the Mystery of God.
Please remember the FACT that thousands heard John’s and Christ Message and how many understood it until after His death, burial and Resurrection. The 11 Disciples of Christ would not have believed it either if the Resurrection had not happened and they were visited by their beloved Messiah. They had no idea of anti-christ, or of the Will of God, or when the Kingdom was to come etc. etc.
Like Peter today there are many that hit it right at a point. Like where Peter told Christ “He was the Son of the Living God” – Then Jesus told him that it was not flesh and blood that revealed it to you but my Fathers Spirit. The church is built upon Revelation by the Spirit = faith revealed through Word.
Then about 10 minutes later – Jesus said the Son of God must go and be put to death. Peter said “NOT SO my Lord. Then Jesus called Peter a Satan – this is just like the anti-christ , confused, Babylon age of today. Now thing real hard and you will get a revelation of who SATAN is. James 1:14-16 will back up what Jesus called Peter.
But true disciples do not leave the Word because of a rebuke. They stayed with HIM till HIS End. Then On Pentecost they received the “Kingdom of God” and it was NOTHING like what all of Israel thought it was going to be. Just 120 people in the upper room. And even that number was after HE rose again and showed HIMSELF to them. Then the Holy Spirit came INTO THEM the NEW TEMPLE that God was preparing from the Law of Moses till then. The New Jerusalem from Above was on earth.
ORDER CAME OUT OF WHAT SEEMED TO BE CHAOS – For God’s “Little Flock” -started Pentecost the beginning of the church ages for our day just like Moses was speaker for Israel in his day. Bringing the church out of bondage – Raptured Praise God
It seems to me you are kind of hung up on Islam to the point of where you miss the Revelation of Jesus Christ that He had John write for His church – then – and now. Jesus gave us the whole plan of His and satan’s brides in the church ages. The True Bride will pick up that Revelation and know that is TRUE.
But most cannot receive the truth until the Kingdom of God Comes in with HIS Righteousness. Matt. 6:33 HIS – The Kingdom of God was a “PERSON called CHRIST. And here we are making a repeat of history again. The multitudes followed their theologians and the Little Flock followed the Prophet John that took them right to Christ and told them Behold this is the Lamb of God. Im going to decrease so He can increase so Follow HIM. God NEVER changes HIS PATTERN’S – If HE did then He would have been wrong and God can Never be Wrong. Heb. 13:8 Same yesterday, today and forever. That is the secret of God’s True Revelation.
GOD TAKES HIS BRIDE OUT OF CHAOS IN EVERY AGE OF THE SEVEN AGES. And makes them OVERCOMERS of the FALSE religions ruled in the same time period with the True Vine. Wheat and tares worship together is what Jesus said. That started right in the Ephesians’ age with the LOSS of their First Love. Which gave satan a place to fill with a system of trained Nicolatain’s spirit of organization and false teachings by their hireling false prophets. AND THAT IS THE SEAT OF AUTHORITY THAT THEY WAS ABLE TO RULE ALL OF CHRISTENDOM by their sorcery, and idolatry, using Christ name in all of it.
Yea Islam was around in that day and was killers just like the “false vine” were part of. But not the deceiving part. ISLAM could not deceive a real Christian in that day either. Nor today.
The Christian Bride always has enemies and it’s usely from within. That’s what starts all the Chaos.
But from the Chaos Christ comes on the scene and delivers His people just like in Noah’s day, Sodom’s day, even Nineveh was spared for 150 years cause they repented at the Message of their Angel Jonah.
How can we deny that Noah’s day, Sodoms day and Jesus Day is more likened unto our generation than all 7 ages that was before us. Noah got rapture from the OLD WORLD – he died on earth. Lot and daughters got Raptured out of Sodom. They did not disappear or float up into the air. But they did go to a Mountain to hide – Praise God
7 Church Ages – 7 Seals – 7 Trumpets, 7 plagues, 7 Vials, 7 Spirits of God – and also 7 Thunders has been revealed to us in this day. Somebody out there needs to read Rev. 10. And 11 –
IN THIS AGE – If people could understand what a Seal, and thunder, and trumpet is – they would get somewhere in the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Its worth your time to study them all.
I challenge you to connect all the Sevens to the Church ages right up to the End time. And you will have the revelation that Christ meant you to have. That is why He had John to write it. To help us in and on our journey through the wilderness and get over the River Jordan =death and conquer the walled cites that have had all of us bound at one time or another.
This is why many will never understand the book of Revelation or the Seals, thunders, Trumpets, Plagues, and Vials. Because they started with the 1st church age of Overcomers to the End of the World as we know it. Read every Overcoming quality – virtue – which is strength. Connect up with them. God will show you some Great things.
The Vials, and the plagues is for satans world. Not Gods Kingdom, Death is from Satan’s world Not Gods Kingdom.
Healing is from Gods Kingdom not the worlds, Peace, Joy, Love, Faith, Patience, goodness, meekness, temperance, longsuffering – THIS IS GODS KINGDOM NOW —-NOW and every opposite of these is the WORLDS KINGDOM NOW.
If you are in Gods Kingdom you will NEVER DIE – In the Worlds KINGDOM you living in DEATH and you are a walking dead man =fallen angel NOW, and will never have eternal life.
This worldly kingdom cannot have JOY and PEACE when they suffering, but in the Person of Jesus Christ you can have Joy, Peace, Love, contentment, and OVERCOME every obstacle that gets in your way.
The COMPLETE Mystery of the Bride and Satans bride has all been revealed. By the Last Angel Messenger – It was already history when 7th. Angel Message came on the scene. We just waiting now for the consummation of it all.
It would do all serious believers In the Bible to trace the 7th. Angel messenger all the way through the Book of Revelation. Do it with a open, hungry heart, thirsting for the Word of God. Attitude is everything to God. Pride with not receive revelation from God and it is a hard way.
I do not worry much about how the World is coming to a close – I just rejoice that Im not deceived about the Mystery of Christ in Me.
Islam is controlled by Satan and it’s a plague. But so is every nation. – It is not going to Deceive any Christian. HELLO – last week I read where more Islam people are becoming Christian now than ever.
Islam whether you believe it or not is controlled by Rome and the Elite nations. They have already joined to pagan mary idolatryism as most of the world is as well –
The Harlot is only bizarre to the believing Bride of Christ. Satan using christ name only.
As for Tammuz – God cursed Israel for the women were crying and praying to Tammuz. Tammuz is nothing but Nimrod pagantry poly religion of that day. The women were Jewish women praying to a pagan god with a goddess as well. Just the name has changed.
ALL PAGAN RELIGIONS were started by Nimrod the rebellious one. That is when Man started to become a worshipped being instead of God. That’s the Truth Amen. Man worship today is everywhere.
REVELATION 22:16 – I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in THE CHURCHES. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
The whole book of Revelations is about the 7 church age’s that have been going on for the last 2,000 years. It’s plain
God bless you all – in Jesus Name
THE SEVEN SEALS – Part 1
Rev. 10 The “Silence” was the “beginning of the End of all things in time.
Jesus Christ with the Rainbow over His head had left that dimension and descended to earth, declaring that “Time would be delayed no longer” (Greek translation. ). It was the beginning of the end. The “ gulf “ that lay between mankind and God were completed. As God yawned on the 7th. Day and rested from His creation in Genesis so is it today with His Bride tree of Life and Satans bride of death. Judgments and Rewards are now happening to the 7 Church ages – The 7th. Age rest of God is over and His completion of HIS GREAT BRIDETREE – the Completed Bride of Christ hath made herself ready. Rev. 22:8-16 the mystery of the Thunders and Seals are now over. This time period of Rev. 22:8-16 happened in Rev. 10 when the Seals were opened with the thunders etc. etc. Notice in Rev. 10 the “BOOK IS OPEN when Christ handed it to the 7th. Age messenger the Omega Prophet of it all.
In John’s day this revelation of the 7 seals, and thunders etc. was still future. But the “Spirit” of God took John up and into another dimension seeing the 7th. Age Prophet in Rev. 10 and Rev. 22:8-10. John was forbidden to write it then “IN HIS DAY” cause that was the Message for the 7th. Age day of the Omega of the church. Yea John was a Prophet indeed. And so was the angel in Rev. 10:7 and Rev. 22:8. Hope you see it. Then the Seals were opened and that message wrapped it all up cause you either believed it unto Life Eternal or Died in your sins not believing whom God had sent. The Message is what is important not just who brought the Message. The Lord is always the Messenger but uses chosen men to Teach it and Shout it loud and clear to the Believing church.
As Jesus came Down to earth there was Silence in all the Heavens, 24 elders, the angels in heaven were silent. Everything was silent before crossing over into Eternity with His Bride into Age of Eternity.
His feet touched the Land and the Sea. Meaning all authority was in His hands now and He was taking back all that had been lost by the 1st. Adam.
The Lamb has now changed into the Lion of the Tribe of Judah. The King of it all. No more being silent – The Lion is going to ROARETH out 7 thunders to the 7th. Age Prophet. The Lamb and Lion are the “SAME” person. Just wearing different “MASK” of attributes as I have taught on the Oneness of Godhead.
The Little Book of Life Rev.10:2 is now “OPEN” in HIS hand and HE gives it to a Prophet Messenger. Proclaiming in REV. 11:15 that the “Kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and HIS CHRIST” – anointed ones who have HIS Spirit and Word. To Rule with a rod of iron. The Mystery of Rev. 11:1-2 Measuring the temple again. Is signifying that a NEW DAY has begun. A re-measuring of the temple signify’s the OLD 7 AGES is OVER. NOW the ARK is in PLAIN View.
The Voice was not in heaven now – it’s on earth. He descended from Heaven with a Shout = 1 Thess. 4:16 and a Voice of archangel and with the Trump of God – Finishing the Mystery of God, through the Voice of the Seventh Angel. The LAST Message to the Gentiles was coming off the altar – Grace to the Bride but judgment to the world – the day of vengeance of our God upon the ungodly seed.
The ALPHA Ministry was Good News, opened prisons, the acceptable year of the Lord. But the OMEGA Ministry is the day of vengeance of our God and comfort, encourage and reward all that mourn, (Isaiah 61:1-3), “Please notice” that Jesus only quoted half of the 2nd. Verse. That was the Alpha ministry of Presence, Love and Mercy and Forgiveness, and Great Power. But it turns into vengeance and death if rejected. Woe unto any who reject their message for their hour.
NOW the ALPHA and OMEGA messengers – 1st. And the Last 7th.
The Alpha Prophet messenger was Apostle Paul – That started in the Book of Acts in the Beginning Ministry of the Church. Who taught the church The WHOLE COUNCIL Acts 20:27 set the ALL THINGS that Christ revealed in order and explained the “Whole Council of God” to the Ephesians church age which is the 1st. Church age mentioned in Rev. 2. Placing the church “IN TIME” or in MOTION. Crossing over out of O.T and into N.T.
It was the Start of Christ Reign through the 7 church ages. Christ used Apostle Paul to break open the very first SEAL, And God USED HIS VOICE, AS A TRUMPET, and His Ministry was the THUNDERING of the Mystery of God to the people. 1st. of the seven in the 7 church ages. If you miss the VOICE = the Message for your age – or missed the TRUMPET calling out and gathering in all that would hear – and if you refused God’s 5 Fold Ministry that has been sent to you . What’s left but WOES, And Plagues, and Death. Remember it was the Lamb that opened the Seals. Not the Lion. The Lamb turned into the Lion in the Omega Age.
Remember Paul and all the disciples were spreading all the Revelation of Jesus Christ out to the people the best they could. The Majority missed it. History says between 1 to 2 million Jews starved, and died, and were slaughtered under Rome’s General Titus. It was so bad that the Roman soldiers could not even walk so they invented a shoe that they put “nails” in like spikes today to even be able to get into the temple mount to kill the rest of them. That age had their “Great tribulation”. They Shunned the Master and HIS MESSAGE which was and still is GOD IN FLESH then and now. That generation of the Beast of Israel and Imperial Rome uniting is happened once again in the OMEGA age. They shunned and killed the Disciples and Paul who had the Revelation of Christ by Jesus own Mouth. What was left for a generation like that. Nothing but Death. Imperial Rome finally got what was due here for her unbelief in later years. They lost the empire to “Papal” Rome becoming the Beast that had the “Deadly Wound” yet was healed. Also the Beast that was, is not, and yet is. Oh MY I hope you can see it.
“Peter said in”
2 PET. 3:15-16 even as our beloved brother Paul
16. As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in “which are some things hard to be understood“, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction”.
The Lambs death, burial, and Resurrection opened up the 7 Sealed Book of Life In Rev. 5. Yet the Lamb used and sent Gifts into the church called the 5 Fold Ministry in Eph. 4 for the perfecting of the saints. Apostles, Prophets, Pastors, Teachers, Ev-angel-ist – Anoinged Messengers to deliver His Bride in every age. GOD USES MAN – GOD SAYS SO NOT ME.
Like Jesus Christ became the RIGHT ARM for your SALVATION. He was a GOD/MAN – So are all of you if you will believe it. Elohiym is the plural for man and angels. There are different kings of angels. But Man is absolutely angel as well. You all have a Spirit of LIFE in you at birth. Theo-phany = Theo means Spirit or God – Phany is Flesh. God is called Theos in the New Testament.
So there has to be an OMEGA Prophet Messenger for Laodicean age as well. Who gathers all the truths out of all the past 6 ages and reveals them in Rev. 10 by 7 thunders and takes us across the great “gulf” of another age into eternity. I pray Lord Jesus let your brothers and sister’s understand these great mysteries that HE left us.
SEALS ONE TO SIX REPRESENTS TRIBULATIONS AND JUDGEMENT WHILE THE SEVENTH REPRESENTS SALVATION AND SEALING OF THE HOLY GHOST. CHRIST HIMSELF
EXAMPLES IN THE BIBLE ABOUND WITH THESES TYPES:
EZK. 9- Every person needs to read these few scripture in this chapter. It shows the “Mark of the Beast” in the O.T. Where has our Pastor’s been.
SIX MEN WOULD CHASTISE BUT THE ONE IN FINE LINEN IS THE 7TH HE WOULD MARK THOSE THAT ARE WORTHY TO BE SAVED. Before any person dies in any of the 6 ages before the 7th.
Christ which is the 7th. Seal = Knew who HE Sealed in for Eternity – He is the Judge, Jury, Lawyer all 3. Your Propitiation of them all. The WORD IS THE JUDGMENT SEAT OF GOD – Judgment is NOW – THE LIFE YOU MANIFEST. Jesus the 7th. Seal knows who you LOVE the most.
JOHN 2 – SIX POTS OF WATER ARE THE MECHANICS, BASICS OF THE HOLY GHOST, WHEN THEY TURNED TO WINE (WINE AS STIMULANT) THAT TYPES THE 7TH SEAL. Walking with Jesus was the “presence” of the mechanics – being filled with Jesus was the dynamics of the Wine of stimulant that many thought they was drunk in the natural. But is was the Revelation of Jesus that caused the Stimulation by the Coming of Christ – “INTO THEM” Rapturing them up to “Higher Ground” – remember that God and Jesus is Spirit =Jesus said I go back to GOD = Holy Spirit.
Just a single Breath of God the HOLY SPIRIT went into a dead piece of clay in Genesis and it rose up. And that same piece of clay begot EVE.
Without a sex act. Whoooooooo! – You finally God Married and become ONE With each other. That’s your rapture – We get Married on this side. Jesus said they isn’t any marrying going on the “OTHER SIDE”. In Christ the rapture is a Never ending experience. God will always “rise you up” more if you listen to Him and seek Him with all your heart. Look at John in Revelation. And Old man – getting more revelation of Christ. Showing him great things and bringing him higher into the realm of eternity than ever before.
GEN. 1 – SIX DAYS OF CREATION, -7TH DAY IS IN GEN.2 -WHERE THERE IS REST, TYPIFYING THE 7TH SEAL THAT UNROLLS THE SCROLL OF REDEMPTION, WHICH JOHN CRIED IF IT COULD NOT BE OPENED. THEN ALL MANKIND WOULD HAVE PERISHED WITH NO HOPE OF SALVATION OR ETERNAL LIFE (REV.5). See there is no such things as an “immortal sinner”. The Lamb died for you to be able to receive Eternal life and that is a miracle in itself. Before the foundation of the World began. But always remember you can chose not to live by the Spirit that was put in you at birth. And you twist it up and pervert it into Evil godly beings. That’s deep but it’s the truth according to Scripture.
The Devil cannot Create New Beings – but he can pervert what God has already made perfect causing all of mankind to be in perversion of HIS WILL. Called sin
REV. 8-9 SIX TRUMPETS SOUNDS OFF IN SEQUENCE BUT THE 7TH TRUMPET IS FAR AWAY TO BE BLOWN (REV. 11:15). MAKING IT THE CULMINATION. The Great trumpet of Christ the anointed one reverberates like an echo all through the ages – 1 through 6 – and they all culminate in the 7th age. Paul could not see all the future. But we can see all the History of the Church. That Jesus revealed to us now by HISTORY and THE WORD OF GOD.
Our Age reveals all the 7 Seals, Trumpets, thunders revealed at ONE TIME = 7 thunders of God = Thunders is a revealing of mysteries of Gods will and judgment. The Seal in your heart has to BE OPENED UP to the HOLY GHOST SEAL. Then the Trumpets, and mysteries of the Thunders will become known to you. it’s a Brand New World after that.
Christ came to Earth in Rev. 10 – and just like Apostle Paul was the Alpha Messenger taught by Jesus Himself – so it is by the 7th. Angel Messenger the Omega Prophet and Apostle. Christ comes down just like in Paul’s day and gives HIM a commission of Power, and Revelation of our Times. Reveals all the mysteries that were hid in the past up to this time.
The 7th. Angel’s message takes the Church or Bride into another age of eternity.
It took Jesus Christ to show Paul and the Messenger of the 7th Age the whole revelation of God – and all the other Prophet Messenger’s in the middle had their part or lot in the ministry of the complete salvation = The PROGRESSIVE REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST to our last days.
tom
I do not think I understand what you say the 7 thunders are..outside of words spoken by christ…so what does he say?
ie , what specifically is thunder 1, 2, 3, 4, etc ?
if they are his words, I have no clue what he has said that makes up the 7 thunders.
they are still mysteries to me.
Perhaps Tom is really the end-time Elijah sent to set things right.
Maybe he will tell us these things when the time is right.
Be patient.
MARTIN LUTHER with his message of “SALVATION AND JUSTIFICATION by GRACE – Was Christ revealing and opening up a SEAL and TRUMET and VOICE in HIS DAY – A mystery revealed is a thunder in the bible. In the Word the Bride is called “Voices, thunders, lightning and earthquakes” THIS IS THE CHURCH IN ACTS STARTING OUT. This is the Voices of the Bride. They turned the World upside down by their MESSAGE of that 1st. Age. Earthquakes, miracles, preaching, teaching the Revelation of Jesus Christ to all that gathered to hear their trumpet blow the truth. In Luthers day you was not a Christian unless you belonged to the Catholic church and was a member.
But God in Mercy showed Him the Truth and the Lord used Luther for the 5th. Angel message to that age. Luther got “caught up” in the Revelation of his day and blew the trumpet load and clear with his Voice. Which was the Voice of God through His Prophet of that day. He picked up the Revelation of truth and gave it to the people and set them free from fanatics of “Man worship” and all the evil that went with it.
It was faith that set you free not belonging to the Catholic church. That was the 5th. Church age messenger to bring them out of Babylon- or I could say Dark ages of heresy.
The 5th. Age was called “Sardis” that means “Escaped Ones”. After that revival came to an end and run out they also denominated it and God was done with it. Look at the Lutheran church today – cold, formal, and dead. They could not receive the Next Step Back to the ORIGINAL which came to a Prophet messenger which was John Wesley with a sanctified message. You just got to read this very slowly and think over it. It will come to you I really believe.
A Sealed Mystery of God was revealed to Luther by THE WORD that Paul wrote to the Romans in his day. Said it was Faith that Justified you not belonging to the Catholic Church. It was FAITH. God had to Open this revelation to LUTHER to get out the message to get the people out of bondage, and back on the path to TOTAL RESTORATION of the Church as it was in ACTS.
Luther was the start of the Restoring of the Bride that was yet to come. His Message set millions free from the bondage of death they was in serving a man/made religion of man worship – Nimrods spirit still alive an well even in the 1500 HUNDREDS amen.
God used the 5 fold ministry to OPEN up their SEAL in their day. ( other words they was in darkness and did not have any truth because of the Nicolatine spirit, false prophets of Balaam , which became the Jezebel that took them into the Dark ages –
Until God sent them a Prophet called Luther, and Wesley and then the last age was Bran-ham. The ones that responded to the Trumpet Voice of that Prophet seen the “Light for their hour“.
JOHN WESLEY was one of them in the “Brotherly Love” age of the 6th. Church age the great revival ages that even crossed the seas to California. Up to this time it was but a “3rd. OF THE WORLD EUROPE” that was receiving revival and or plagues by rejecting or Receiving Christ message for their hour. The Overcomer of that age also escaped the GREAT TEMPTATION of being a Victim of false Vine doctrine’s that was instilled in the true vine from the beginning by the Roman’s Universal church and some error’s that were in Luthers Message as well. Remember Roman’s was written by Paul as well to the little flock in Rome which grew so big that it left Pauls teaching and went it’s own way which led to the Nicene Council. Yes Satan’s Vine was working it’s own PROGRESSIVE REVELATION to deceive the True BRIDE and took them to the Dark ages.
How did they do this. They TOOK AWAY THE WORD FROM THEM THATS HOW.
LORD BLESS YOU – AND HE WILL DO IT – ITS NEW WINE FOR OUT DAY AS WELL. Bro. Tom
Sister Marianne and all.
EXODUS 9:23 – And Moses stretched forth his rod toward heaven: and the LORD sent THUNDER and HAIL, and the fire ran along upon the ground; and the LORD rained hail upon the land of Egypt.
THUNDER – 6963 MEANING TO CALL ALOUD 1) voice, sound, noise 1a) voice 1b) sound (of instrument) 2) lightness, frivolity – Jesus said he piped unto His generation but they would not dance -Ty The majority hated his message as well. Should have been shouting glory and Praise God for the Truth that came through the precious savior Jesus Christ. That generation turned down their 7th. Seal. The Voice of God speaking through flesh.
HAIL – 1259 {baw-rawd’} 1. hail 1a) of God’s judgment (figurative)
PSALM 77:18 THE VOICE OF THY THUNDER was in the heaven: the lightnings lightened the world: the earth trembled and shook. The voice of God the Word is Thunder – Ty
VOICE – 7481 to make the sound of thunder, thunder- to rage — to tremble, cause to tremble
PSALM 81:7-8 Thou calledst in trouble, and I delivered thee; I ANSWERED THEE IN THE SECRET PLACE OF THUNDER; I proved thee at the waters of Meribah. Selah.
8 HEAR, O MY PEOPLE , and I will testify unto thee: O Israel, if thou wilt H-EAR-KEN hearken unto me; — THE VOICE OF HIS WORD – EVERY CHURCH AGE – HE THAT WILL HEAR LET HIM HEAR WHAT THE SPIRIT SAITH UNTO THE CHURCHS.
JOB 26:13 By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.
JOB 26:14 Lo, these are parts of his ways: but how little a portion is heard of him? but the THUNDER OF HIS POWER WHO CAN UNDERSTAND
— HE THAT IS WEANED FROM THE MILK AND CAN EAT MEAT THAT’S WHO -TY
REVELATION 6:1- And I saw when the Lamb opened ONE of the seals , and I heard, as it were the NOISE OF THUNDER , one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.
THUNDER -027 {bron-tay’} (to roar) — thunder – thundering
10:3 REVELATION 10:3 – And cried with a LOUD VOICE , as when a LION ROARETH : and when he had cried, SEVEN THUNDERS UTTERED THEIR VOICES —
THE TOTALITY OF THE 7 VOICES OF TRUTH AND ERROR HEARD IN THE 7 CHURCH AGES. ALL AT ONCE IN THE LAST GENERATION OR AGE OF THE CHURCH AGES. WE NOW SHOULD KNOW THE WHOLE TRUTH WHICH WILL ANNILHILATE THE FALSE T.Y
THE CAP OFF OF IT ALL –
JOHN 12:28-31 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a VOICE FROM HEAVEN , saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.
29. The people therefore, that stood by, and HEARD IT, SAID THAT IT THUNDERED: others said, AN ANGEL SPAKE TO HIM
30. Jesus answered and said, THIS VOICE CAME NOT BECAUSE OF ME, but for YOUR SAKES.
31. NOW IS THE JUDGEMENT OF THIS WORLD: ‘NOW”shall the ‘PRINCE OF THIS WORLD BE CAST OUT —– WORD MADE FLESH WAS ON THE SCENE – TY – WHAT ABOUT US ALL TODAY – ARE YOU WORD MADE FLESH TO THE OUTSIDE WORLD. OUR ARE YOU JUST GOING TO HOLD ON TO THE TRADITION OF THE NICENEAN COUNCIL – FOR OVER 1,260 YEARS OF TRADITIONS. THEY DID NOT PREACH ONE THING I BELIEVE THAT WAS TRUTH. THIS IS WHY WERE IN A BABYLON CONDITION TODAY. AND IF THEY DID HAVE ONE TRUTH IT WAS NULLIFIED BY ALL THE FALSE THAT WAS IN IT. SAME TODAY IN THE GREAT APOSTASY OF ALL THE DENOMINATIONS – WHO WILL NOT “HEAR”
JEREMIAH SAID THAT ISRAEL WAS LIKE A CAMEL IN HEAT – SHE HAD A SET COURSE AND NOTHING COULD TURN HER AROUND AND BRING HER BACK. JEREMIAH WAS RIGHT ON. HE WAS TALKING ABOUT THE APOSTASY OF HIS DAY. HISTORY REPEATING ITSELF – OVER AND OVER AND OVER
LORD LET IT THUNDER ON THIS FORUM – THAT IS MY PRAYER. GIVE US EARS TO HEAR AND HEARTS THAT ARE SINCERE IN KNOWING THE GREAT MYTERIES OF YOUR WORD. Bro. tom –
tom
I understand that “thunder” represents the voice of God.
but WHAT did God say in Rev 10?
he said 7 different things.
what were they?
you said what He said had been revealed….so what was said? I am not aware of this reveled mystery.
Marianne — Basically it was the Message’s in Each age to the Bride. To keep them from falling into the false vine of unbelief and pagantry.
Like the example I gave you of Luthers and Wesley’s message’s delivering those who would believe their Message’s that was sent from GOD – A thunder is a secret until it is revealed and then it is no secret anymore the truth has come to light – The Little bride bearly made it through the dark ages.
If it hadn’t been for the Messengers – the 7 Spirits of God that HE = GOD sent to that age. They would not be a Christian church today except for Catholicism.
When you can look in history and have the Word and Scriptures to reveal the same thing. Then you have a “Absolute” Truth – 20/20 Perfect revelation. In other Words – The Word of God vindicates the history and the history vindicates the truth of the Word. It’s an infallible revelation.
Apostle Paul was looking into the future. But we are looking back at history of the church. And see where SHE failed except for the very few Overcomes.
Can you imagine when John saw the Roman Catholic church with it’s Worldwide Multitudes following it. He was in a great WONDER what is this. He lived in the time when the Roman church was the Real thing and it had 2 God sent Prophets that Pastored it. Till all the rich and famous starting coming and kicked them out. John could not fatom it. Christ had to tell him it was the Great City that reigneth over the world. Rome at that time was the ONLY GREAT CITY THAT RUlED THE WORLD. John knew that was ROME then – If God the Holy Spirit would have put the name ROME in their. It would not have been a secret and the Book of Revelation might not have never seen our eyes.
O.T Israel killed their prophets. And it was so called Christians that killed N.T prophets. That God had sent to them. Tortured them. Beheaded them. Hung millions on burning Crosses.
So GOD IN MERCY started Restoring back the Truth to HIS last day Bride =church of overcomers.
Do you believe the Pentecostal Revival in 1906 was of God. You See God was restoring the Gifts back into the church. Luther got the Bride going with ” You shall be Justified by Faith,”singular thunder etc. Then Wesley’s Message of sanctification with that Faith another “thunder” singular. Then came Pentecostal Revival. another singular Thunder.
But Praise God Latter Rain followed that. It was going to pour with the last Angel Messenger. Not just revealing 1 revelation but the Whole Mystery of it all was revealed. But it takes Prophets to do that and God gives them special anointings to Hear. Then they lay down the message for their day. We today have run out. Cause its the end of all things in Rev. 10 beginning when He Jesus gave the OPENED BOOK to that Prophet. And American became a Christian nation so to speak in that day. But look at her now. We Had to have that Last 7th. Angel Messenger to Reveal the whole Mytery ALL IN LAST GENERATION. God had to send the last day Prophet with all the Revelation of the complete 7 thunders of God.
We are not looking through a glass darkly now. We have the Truth Restored back to its ORGINAL Power again like the Book of Acts. Jew and Gentile both just as it was then Jew and Gentile together. So it is today. God kept his Promise to Israel and restored her back her homeland. Gave her Back Jerusalem. And is saving any Jew that will come to the Gospel. Many Rabbi’s are not Saved Christians like Johnathan Cahn in New Jersey has already been around the world speaking to JEWS and all about JESUS and he has had much success. He is a great teacher to the Jews.
But dont think like most think that Israel the nation is any more important than any nation of lost people. The ALL of Israel is the Complete Bride made up of all Nations in the World. The Israel of God as Paul called the Church. We are all JEWS in the “Jerusalem” that is from above.
There could be many millions of believing Christians that have their faith in Natural Israel and if something happens to her. They will not have faith any longer in the Word of God thinking it was all wrong. This is why the TRUTH is so important.
This is why I have to come against “the spirit of error” that is in this last age. About the 7 years tribulation ahead, A mysterious Anti-christ that the World is looking for. And yet millions die everday Lost. Thousands die ever day not knowing they have the “Mark of the Beast” whether they are Christians or not. They going to where all the Mark of Satan are going. Lets get Teach a Message of NOW. Get it right NOW. There is nothing that I know of right NOW. That has to be fufilled before this age is OVER. What is it.
Marianne I really Appreciate your Spirit that can listen and be open minded. Im not the Elijah that people want to make fun of it. – but I do preach his Message. It is found is Rev. 10:8-11 — Im eating and Prophesying out of the Opened little book. So sweet it is – but with people it gets bitter as you probably know yourself starting this forum.
Lord bless and Shalom —- Bro. tom
The Great Trumpet has sounded in our age.
Ya know, I used to believe that Rome was the city of Babylon in Revelation for a long time too, that is until recently and in having my experience.
Revelation 18:24. in referring to the city says, “And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.”
Yeshua says in Luke 13:33-35.,
“Nevertheless I must walk to day, and tomorrow, and the day following: “for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem”. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.”
That sounds awfully prophetic to me…….
So was Yeshua just kidding above? Oh wait, the Two Witnesses are also killed in Jerusalem too.
Funny though, how not one prophet out of the entire Tanakh happens to mention anything regarding the city of Rome during end times?
Someone please name me “one prophet” that was killed in Rome?
Just my 2.
Praise Yeshua our Holy and Worthy Lamb. Our Precious and Glorious Savior, and KING of kings.
Amen.
Seems to me that Jesus was killed BY Rome, and technically, He was also in Rome. Not the city, but the empire. Same thing really, as far as Rome was concerned. It was a combination of the Pharisees and the Roman legion that killed Christ.
So the verses fit Rome just fine. The name Rome never appears in the bible, only references to it in both Daniel and the New Testament. If Rome got wind that the Jews were writing about them they would have killed the writers and destroyed all records of their writings, especially John.
But it was written for the end times, when history would clearly show who the prophecy was.
It fooled the Romans. Don’t let it fool you too.
Hmmm,
The entire 2nd Chapter Of Hosea which is referring to end times, doesn’t sound like Rome? (But verses 14 through 17 sure do sound like they correlate with Rev. 12: 14-16. and Matthew 24:16-21.).
Amos 2 verse 4 through to the end of the book and especially that of chapter 9 doesn’t sound like Rome?
Neither does Isaiah 1:18-31.
Or Isaiah 10:11-34. where Israel and Jerusalem are clearly the area, (rather than Rome), and where God takes His vengeance on the king of Assyria, (which is a foreshadowing of the A.C.). This is can be concluded by what is written within the very next chapter, (keeping in mind that chapters and verses were not included within the original text). Isaiah 11:1-3., are referring to Yeshua, but this is not referring to His first coming.
This can be confirmed by what is simply stated within verse 4;
“But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: “and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.”
When the Lord was here the first time, He didn’t slay anyone. And verses 5 on most definitely describe the what it will be like during the Millennial Reign.
Isaiah 14 only mentions Israel, when the king of Babylon (verse 4), is defeated. The king of Babylon is also clearly satan, (verses 12 to 15).
Notice as well, that in verse 13 that it was satan’s desire to “sit also upon the mount of the congregation”.
The English “of the congregation” is derived from the Hebrew, “מועד”, transliterated as “mow`ed”, (Strong’s 4150), which in this context means “appointed place”. Of the 223 times that the word is utilized within the Tanakh, not once is it remotely referring to Rome.
It is far more likely that satan wished to “sit upon the mount and appointed place of God in Israel”, which I suspect would be “Jerusalem”.
Then there is Isaiah 65 which doesn’t sound like Rome either? As a matter of fact, in verse 8 God says that “a new wine is found in the cluster” and so He won’t destroy them all. In verse 9 scripture reveals that this “new wine”, refers to the remnant, (seed or offspring), that will come from both Jacob and Judah.
The whole chapter is regarding “end times”, and is speaking about the people of Israel that will either be destroyed for forsaking the LORD or rejoice for not forsaking Him. Nothing about Rome here, although in verse 18 God says that He will make a “new Jerusalem”. Huh, I wonder why?
How about Zechariah 14.? That sure sounds like Jerusalem to me. (Hey look, Jerusalem is mentioned 10 times. Rome- 0), and the chapter is certainly describing “end times”.
In verse 3 God says the He will fight against those nations, (or people), and His feet will stand upon the Mount of Olives, (vs. 4), which is before Jerusalem on the east, (not in Rome), and that there will be an earthquake that will split the Mount of Olives from east to west and create a valley.
The people, (the remnant), will then flee, (which again sounds a lot like Rev. 12:14-16. and Matthew 24:16-21.) and then the LORD my God, (or Yeshua at His actual Second Coming return to earth this time) returns “with all of His saints”, (verse 5). The rest of the chapter consists of what it will be like during the Millennial Kingdom Reign, and the destruction that Yeshua will do to the people that fought against Jerusalem.
Someone please name me one prophet that was ever killed in Rome, and show me one verse that would conclusively discredit all of the above, (which is only a portion as to what I could provide), that Jerusalem isn’t the same city that is described in the book of Revelation as Babylon.
That isn’t asking too much is it?
Talk is cheap.
God’s word is priceless.
Just one please.
a.
Praise Yeshua our Holy and Worthy Lamb. Our Precious and Glorious Savior and KING of kings.
Amen.
Who perhaps is the one that is really being fooled?
Thanks Bro. James – you took the words right out of my mouth.
Dear Alienated – When other nations invade other lands and kill people. Lets say Rome for instance. It was order’s from head quarters of Rome to do so.
It was Rome occupying Jerusalem and it was Pilate that could have set Jesus Christ free. Who was Pilate working for. ROME –
All down through the dark ages was terror from Rome. My God son why did the Pope a few years ago come out and Apologize for all the CRUSADES that killed 68 million people.
Who killed ben laden – he was living in Pakistan – but it was American’s that supposedly killed him. So what Nation put out the order to do it. No matter where it happened – America was behind it. If it really happened .
Most of the prophecies you quoting have already been fulfilled. Im sorry my brother. But thats what I believe.
Do you ever try to find the good in a message even if you do not believe the whole message. Is this all that you learned from the Messages I wrote in.
Hey Im for you not against you. But how any of us gonna learn anything unless we become like the Berean’s in Acts and go home and check it out by the Scripture. My dear brother do not let Pride keep you from learning more Revelation. Lord bless you James and Alienated as well.
God bless you all. Bro. Tom
Tom,
I am, and have not been saying that Rome, (or the C.C.) won’t perhaps have their part in all of this. (Or that Islam won’t either, for remember, there were two feet on that statue in Nebuchadnezzar’s dream that were mixed.) A Ten Nation World Power will be established which could possibly consist of both?
What I am saying is that within the book of Revelation there is a city that is referred to as Babylon, and that all prophetic scripture that is found within the Tanakh suggest that this city is Jerusalem!
I am sorry for YOU that you believe that these prophecies have all been fulfilled, for clearly you don’t fully comprehend the reason for the repetitive and cyclical nature, nor the foreshadowing of the Word.
This is not my pride that has lead me to this, nor is it a lack of not imitating that of the Berean’s. If anything, it is exactly what the Berean’s did….
“These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.” Acts 17:11. KJV.
Above I have provided scripture from the Tanakh, which are exactly that same scriptures that the Berean’s searched to seek the truth.
I did not ask for your opinion regarding the above, nor did I require the simplicity of your analogy.
I did ask though for anyone to provide, “The name of one prophet that was ever killed in Rome, and show me one verse that would conclusively discredit all of the above, (which is only a portion as to what I could provide), that Jerusalem isn’t the same city that is described in the book of Revelation as Babylon.
If you can provide that, then I might be impressed.
Oh and agreeing with James does not in any way add to your credibility whatsoever.
1) He doesn’t believe in hell.
2) He doesn’t believe that Yeshua descended there before ascending to the Father.
3) He doesn’t believe that if you are a “born again” believer that you will go to straight to heaven when you die.
4) He believes that to worship on Sunday is the “mark of the beast”.
5) He doesn’t believe that this mark will have any bearing as to whether you will be able to buy or sell or not.
6) He believes that a person can accept the mark and will still receive salvation.
7) He believes that the woman in Rev. 12 is the Church.
8) He believes that the “man child” that she gives birth to is Yeshua.
9) He believes that there will only be one resurrection at the end, just prior to Yeshua establishing His Millennial Reign.
And that is just the tip of the Iceberg.
So if James took the words right out of your mouth, I would suggest that you go brush your teeth. Because in my opinion, I wouldn’t consider him to be a glowing reference. The fact that you both believe that much of prophecy has already been fulfilled sends up a big red flag for me. Heck, lets just chuck out our Bibles then, because if that’s the case, there is nothing that is contained within them to glean any information regarding the future.
We have God’s Word, and then we have opinions of man.
If you can not provide the answers to the two questions that I have asked, then perhaps you may wish to reconsider that which you currently believe?
Simple stuff isn’t it?
a.
Praise be unto Yeshua our Holy and Precious Savior, and Glorious KING of kings.
Amen.
a,
Thanks for summing up my beliefs – right on!
On Babylon, the woman (apostate church) has “Mystery Babylon” written on her forehead.
Mystery Babylon was the religion of Baal in ancient Babylon. The one that Elijah challenged at Mt. Carmel where God destroyed the pagan priests. It is not a city.
But If it is Jerusalem why does ate it so much? Will he really totally destroy it – throwing it into the sea with a millstone around it? Will Jesus set up His kingdom on a pile of rubble?
Does anyone else here really think God is going to destroy His precious city and leave the pagan ppractices in His true bride?
Believe what you want, even If it makes no sense. By bringing in too much scripture you have only managed to confuse the issue. But why even bother? You don’t think you’ll be on earth when any of this goes down so who cares?
So just let us who will be here try to figure it all out. You’re already set with your rapture theory.
(Sarcastic wit free of charge).
🙂
Tom,
I understand everything you’ve been saying here and I agree completely.
Babylon is indeed apostacy in today’s churches. We just disagree as to who the second beast of Revelation is for the most part.
Keep up the good words.
Jim
James,
No problem. You’re more than welcome for the summarization to what you believe.
I posed two questions above, (though we all know that answering questions is not your forte), the questions still stand. Simply answer the questions.
Again, I am referring to the “city” that is referred to as Babylon, so lets look at which city is the focal point of Revelation itself.
Consider the following;
First in Revelation 3:12., a new Jerusalem is mentioned for those that are of the Church of Philadelphia.
Revelation 11:2.
“But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.”
Answer; The City of Jerusalem.
Revelation 11:8.
“And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.”
Answer; The City of Jerusalem.
Revelation 11:13.
“And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell , and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.”
In utilizing scripture to interpret scripture, this earthquake directly correlates with the Mount of Olives separating to the east and the west that is prophesised in Zechariah 14. , and since Jerusalem is mentioned a total of 10 times within that chapter, and since Jerusalem is obviously where the Two Witnesses will be killed and lie in the streets, this earthquake will also occur there.
Answer; The City of Jerusalem.
Now you believe, (though there is absolutely no logical foundation to do so), that all of a sudden, scripture goes from talking about Israel and Jerusalem, to referring to the Church in Revelation 12., and that the Church somehow birthed its Creator? Forget the fact that the Book is a Prophecy that has been given to John by the Lord Himself, which in being prophecy, contains no events of any historical significance whatsoever. Nope, lets just take an irrelevant trip down memory lane here, with you as the tour guide and speculate that this is the church. “Not likely.”
If you hadn’t been inundated with your 40 plus years of Catholicism and its “replacement theology” you might just understand that the woman is referring to Israel as well. (With scripture interpreting scripture, and that of Genesis 37:9,10.) Then you would also understand, that the male child would be referring to the 144,000. The whole chapter is regarding Israel fleeing satan.
This is also stated and written within “Zechariah 14:5., Hosea 2:14-17., Matthew 24:16-21., for just a few.)
Answer; Israel and The City of Jerusalem.
Revelation 13 offers further specificity regarding the beast that rises up from the sea. That he will have characteristics, like unto a leopard, with his feet being as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion. This is referring to Daniels vision of Daniel 7:4-7., where this last and 4th. beast will wield all of the combined power and more, than the 3 previous kingdoms. It describes how this beast will die and return to life, (Just like Yeshua), which will be utilized by the false prophet to demonstrate the beasts supposed divinity. How all the people, (who’s names were not written in the Book of Life), will worship satan, and the beast. Etc. etc.
Now we come to Revelation 14. It starts off describing Yeshua being on Mount Zion, which is referring to Jerusalem. Then a discussion of the 144,000 and what could very well be a gathering or rapture takes place, (Rev.14:2-5.). Then an angel fly’s through heaven preaching the Gospel to all the peoples of the earth. This is also recorded in Rev. 18:1.,
“And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.”
Revelation 17 & 18 were some of the chapters that the Spirit had me re-translate during my experience, where basically all I did was type.
The re-translation of that verse was this;
“And after this I saw another angel descend from heaven, possessing great power; and the world was illuminated with spiritual enlightenment, imbued with saving knowledge in the presence of his glory, [to teach those that had ears to hear].”
Then in 14:8., another angel says, Babylon has fallen, has fallen that great city.
Now John doesn’t say that he was taken anywhere else in the Spirit like he does in Revelation 17:3 here. Wouldn’t that logically mean then, and suggest that he was still in the same place? As well, if you combine all of the prophetic scripture that does more than suggest that the city that will be punished will indeed be Jerusalem, then there is foundation to conclude that they are one and the same.
James you then ask your ridiculous question, “If it is Jerusalem, then why does God hate it so much?”
God doesn’t hate Jerusalem! But He is a Holy and Just God that is Jealous over their Idolatry that they have committed over and over again.
Instead of asking your question, why don’t you actually pick up your Bible and sit down and read all of the chapters and verse that I have provided above?
This way you will hear and read the reasons from God Himself. I know that might be a foreign concept for you, but give it a try.
Praise Yeshua the Holy and Blessed Lamb.
Our Precious Savior and Glorious KING of kings.
Amen.
Here is something for everybody to ponder over too.
This just came to me out of the blue while I was out for a walk and in prayer regarding something else entirely.
For those that understand that the woman in Revelation 12 is indeed Israel, and that the “male child” that she gives birth to is the 144,000, then consider this.
In Isaiah 65, in which the whole chapter is relevant to “end times” and is also regarding the nation of Israel, God says in verse 8 and 9;
“Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith , Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it: so will I do for my servants’ sakes, that I may not destroy them all. And I will bring forth a seed out of Jacob, and out of Judah an inheritor of my mountains: and mine elect shall inherit it, and my servants shall dwell there.”
So God will bring a seed, (a remnant, or offspring) out of Israel and Judah that will have favor because they did not forsake the LORD with idolatry and were faithful. (This may also be relevant to Revelation 6:6., “And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say , A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.” The “wine” perhaps being this remnant and the “oil” perhaps being the 144,000?)
Nevertheless we have a “woman”, a portion of Israel that did not forsake the Lord that will escape destruction.
However in verses 1 through 7, and 11 through 15 describe those that have angered the Lord and have forsaken Him. These are also of Israel, so they would also be the “woman”, though she would be the woman that would be slated for punishment, and would be destroyed.
So the Woman of Revelation 12 is the faithful Israel that will be protected and will escape, while the Woman of Revelation 17 is also that of Israel, but is comprised of all of those that did not return to the Lord and instead committed adultery and was a harlot with idolatry.
Isaiah 1:16 through 28. repeating itself for the final time;
16 Wash you, make you clean ; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil ;
17 Learn to do well ; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.
18 Come now , and let us reason together , saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
19 If ye be willing and obedient , ye shall eat the good of the land:
20 But if ye refuse and rebel , ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
21 How is the faithful city become an harlot ! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers .
22 Thy silver is become dross, thy wine mixed with water:
23 Thy princes are rebellious , and companions of thieves: every one loveth gifts, and followeth after rewards: they judge not the fatherless, neither doth the cause of the widow come unto them.
24 Therefore saith the Lord, the LORD of hosts, the mighty One of Israel, Ah, I will ease me of mine adversaries, and avenge me of mine enemies :
25 And I will turn my hand upon thee, and purely purge away thy dross, and take away all thy tin:
26 And I will restore thy judges as at the first, and thy counsellors as at the beginning: afterward thou shalt be called , The city of righteousness, the faithful city.
27 Zion shall be redeemed with judgment, and her converts with righteousness.
28 And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the LORD shall be consumed.
Something to consider. It is Gods Word and not that of my interpretation.
Praise our Precious Lord, Yeshua the Glorious Savior. The Holy and Worthy Lamb.
Amen.
Alienated
I would see the woman as Israel, but the male child…would be more than the 144k. at least I hope the tribulation saves more than that.
https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/144000-and-the-2-servants/
https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/the-144000-and-the-rest-of-the-jews/
https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/dont-hurt-the-oil-and-wine/
blessings
Al,
I think you have something in the above post. Ya got a Pearl man!
I received this “revelation” in November 201O – He kind of me what you posted in your reply above.
He led me to read Joel 2:19 and 22-25, but I did not know when it would come to pass??
“Yes, the Lord answered and said to His people, Behold, I am sending you grain and juice [of the grape] and oil, and you shall be satisfied with them; and I will no more make you a reproach among the [heathen] nations…(verse 21-25) Fear not, O land; be glad and rejoice, for the Lord has done great things!
Be not afraid, you wild beasts of the field, for the pastures of the wilderness have sprung up and are green; the tree bears its fruit, and the fig tree and the vine yield their [full] strength.
Be glad then, you children of Zion, and rejoice in the Lord, your God; for He gives you the former or early rain in just measure and in righteousness, and He causes to come down for you the rain, the former rain and the latter rain, as before. And the [threshing] floors shall be full of grain and the vats shall overflow with juice [of the grape] and oil. And I will restore or replace for you the years that the locust has eaten—the hopping locust, the stripping locust, and the crawling locust, My great army which I sent among you.”
I’m expecting this new wine and oil to come for the remnant (Israel: Messiah born again in the vine Hebrews or grafted into as a Gentile believer) very soon.
When I asked Him, “How long
until this new wine and oil comes?” – back in November 2010 – He led me to read these verses in Isaiah 37:30-32.
“And this shall be the sign for you: this year you shall eat what grows of itself, and in the second year what springs from that. Then in the third year sow and reap, and plant vineyards, and eat their fruit. And the surviving remnant of the house of Judah shall again take root downward and bear fruit upward. For out of Jerusalem shall go a remnant, and out of Mount Zion a band of survivors. The zeal of the Lord will do this.”
Now, today, considering the post within we are exchanging replies “Signs in the Heavens” – which includes much of what He taught me between Nov 2010 and today – that third year is really soon.
The new work (oil/wine) for the end of the age is in contrast to the work of AC – who will be appearing very soon.
Thanks for your post/reply – you gave me confirmation.
Remember – first/last.
a,
I still don’t understand your interpretation. So God is going to level the city of Jerusalem? Or is he just going to murder the residents? Or both?
Doesn’t sound like the God I know.
You reference how God rebuked the ancient Jews for their idolatry – commandment breaking. Well, the Book of Revelation is for Christians and it is now their turn to be rebuked for commandment breaking.
You have the uncanny ability to misinterpret scripture in order to make a point, but when you are asked why God would do such a crazy thing, you just say we can’t read God’s mind so we can never understand His reasons for these things.
That might be OK for some people, but not for me. If a prophecy makes no biblical sense then there must be something wrong with the interpretation.
Just because Jerusalem is mentioned in Revelation doesn’t mean that Babylon is also Jerusalem. For example, the Mt. of Olives earthquake will destroy a tenth of Jerusalem, right? Oh wait, it was already destroyed – the millstone into the sea. So is the city resurrected so God can destroy it some more? Nonsense.
And as I said, it is “Mystery Babylon” which is a pagan religion. You say you agree about the Catholic church being apostate and that it will have to be fixed or destroyed. So why when you read about that destruction you don’t recognize it as such? Instead you think God is going to destroy His beloved city. For what? The Jews are better commandment keepers than the Christians, so why kill them off? But you say the Jews will be protected. That is contradictory. The true church will be protected – the Philadelphia church, not the Jews. The Jews will be taught the gospel by the two witnesses during the tribulation. Commandment keeping Christians will receive protection, the rest will suffer the last plagues.
And as for the man child in Revelation 12 being anything other than Jesus, I’m not buying it. I’ve watches dozens of sermons/lectures on it and no-one has ever taught it was a bunch of modern-day Jews. Once again you have gone scripture-happy and found something that sounds similar and you have attempted to connect some dots that aren’t really there.
You are very clever in that regard, but also very wrong. Sometimes the obvious choice is the right one.
So there…
Marianne,
Yup – it is going to be a great harvest!
I think it’s going to be a shock to the AC. God is holding back 7 Thunders – AC has no idea. We have a clue and shouting Glory as some watch and some participate.
(Psalm 29).
“The voice of the Lord makes the hinds bring forth their young, and His voice strips bare the forests, while in His temple everyone is saying, Glory!
The Lord sat as King over the deluge; the Lord [still] sits as King [and] forever!
The Lord will give [unyielding and impenetrable] strength to His people; the Lord will bless His people with peace” (Amplified Bible).
Those “144,000” will be gathered in the preverbal end zone of that football field, at the end of the long night, the new day now brightly shinning, singing a fight song with our Head Coach but nobody knows the words except those who were in the game. Glory! I think it’s a victory song not a like a hymn.
The last three and a half minutes of this contest (Paul calls it a race) start soon and it is going to be very interesting and exciting.
Believers are victorious with death and hell defeated – Eternity with Him – in paradise, heaven, peace and joy are ours – Thank you Lord!
College football starts in 4 weeks too. I wonder if there is football during the Millinium?
College football may still be around. Scripture says he will give us the desires of our heart.
You right on that Sister Marianne – College football is Out side the City. Out side the city is where the world is having a ball. Isa. Said they would be having babies etc. Sin and unbelief will be around.
During the Millennium. Sounds like a paradox but it is that way.
Noah’s day Had the Ark for safety in front of that generation. Outside of it was the violence, porn, marrying and divorcing and full of violence and hatred, war etc. That Ark was in the making for 120 years. Then it sit for 7 days with the Door shut.=Rev.22:11.
Noah and the family were “Sealed” in safe and sound inside the Ark. But the rest were sealed out. just like in Rev. 22 being our day. Rev. 11:19 shows us the Ark openly in View. we can see the Ark. as well for our day. That started in Rev. 11:15 the Kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ – His Christ is US – HIS BRIDE in the Age of the 7 Seals opened, 7 trumpets opened, 7 thunders revealed, Rev. 11:15 is a BRAND NEW DAY for the bride. The Archangel had arrived on earh as well.
Inside the City Jesus is living in our hearts with Peace, joy, Love, goodness, faith, no death, just the tree of life and River of living water flowing through you. = The millinnium. The tree of Life in you. The city of New Jerusalem Gods fortress hiding you in the cliff of the rock of Revelation. Lifted high on Eagles wings. No one can take your salvation away from you. You are sealed in forever Eph. 4:30
God the Messiah actually walking among His people for 33 years or so. After rejecting HIM – I brought judgement to the unbelievers Israel but it sealed the 120 at Pentecost and thousands of others after that that would believe. Jesus told Phillip if you have seen me you have seen the Father. OH MY – Have we SEEN HIM TODAY in HIS Glory and all at HIS APPEARING to you personally. Then you will not worry about the 2nd. coming of Christ.
Don’t go getting mad at me now. Jesus is our Millennium and death cannot separate us from the Love of God or anything else.
The book of Revelation is just the Gospel taught by Jesus Christ Himself. Telling us all what He as done for us. The other 4 gospels were written by eyewitnesses telling the Story.
But Book of Revelation is from the Author of the whole book to the Beloved John for our Peace, and Joy of Knowing HIM and what Salvation really means to us. Is the Gospel Message of Revelations. But satan has got the whole of the church looking at him. Instead of Christ. I know that some day soon this is going to hit some of the people on this forum REALLY hard. Cause they gonna see it By Faith. And it will be Joy divine when it hits you. It will overwhelm you. and Your Love will become greater and greater for His Word and Image living in you.
Lord bless you all. Bro. York
I am, and have not been saying that Rome, (or the C.C.) won’t perhaps have their part in all of this. (Or that Islam won’t either, for remember, there were two feet on that statue in Nebuchadnezzar’s dream that were mixed.) A Ten Nation World Power will be established which could possibly consist of both?
My answer to above: The 10 toes were mixed with Iron and clay -This is the same Kingdom of revised Rome that went from “Iron”= Imperial Rome to “Clay”= Papal Papal Rome – Clay sticks everywhere it goes. Clay is the very substance in Every man. There is a Anti-christ living to deceive them to eat from the tree of death when they are born. Any single man or woman that is “in Confusion about Life” is a walking and talking, breathing Babylon. Living in Darkness
1st. And 2nd. SEALS — The First thing they need is for GOD TO OPEN UP THE “First” SEAL IN THEIR HEART AND RECOGNIZE THAT IT IS GOD THAT has their ANSWER INSTEAD OF GOING INTO THE “RED HORSE” of WAR AND KILLING – 1st. And 2nd. Seal revealed in very, very SIMPLE forms.
The way of the World is Babylon – Cain and Nimrod was Rebellious against GOD the only one that could save them and mankind from destruction. The whole World is in Rebellion “NOW” as God is “PERFECTING HIS BRIDE” at the same time- The disciples – trained and taught followers of Jesus Christ who were later called “Little Jesus’s that listened to His Great Thundering Voice of Salvation. Were being perfected while Judas was the Cain or Nimrod of that hour. Selling OUT for 30 pieces of silver. Like Josephs brother sold him out for 20 pieces.
THIRD SEAL
– Then the 3rd. Seal is next which finds you weighed in the Balance and found wanting. Your life becomes a “FAMINE” and all the hopes of the White conquering anti-christ horse you thought you were. Is now headed to next step into – Death, hell and the Grave – to become annihilated by the GOD’s CONSUMING FIRE and IN THAT ORDER – God is the only Eternal fire there is. But in Matt. 10:28 Jesus said to fear God lest He destroy thy Soul. Your Soul is God’s He bought and paid the ransom for you. He is the Lord over both Good and Evil. Lord of all men. He’s the Potter and we the clay. Jesus came to GIVE US ETERNAL life because we did not possess it before that. We were DEAD in trespasses and sin. Jesus was ETERNAL life. The ONLY FORM OF ETERNAL LIFE IS IN CHRSIT – No such a thing as a immortal sinner my friends.
What I am saying is that within the book of Revelation there is a city that is referred to as Babylon, and that all prophetic scripture that is found within the Tanakh suggest that this city is Jerusalem! –
ANSWER – Yes Jerusalem was mainly one big nation of people in “Babylon” that “Rejected” Christ and Turned HIM over to ROMAN AUTHORITY’s. So yes the were absolutely Babylon in Nature and Character as well. The Bible calls Jerusalem in Rev. 11:8 as a “Spiritual Sodom” and Egypt. Any nation that does not have a THEOCRACY over them would be in the category of Babylon. Even what use to be Christian and turn to SODOM – Best example of this now is the United States of America. The Porn capital of the whole World which use to be a Christian nation. She fail in 1956 and a Prophet said she would never rise again. She’s gone. And lets face it. American is not America anymore. She all into Idol worship of some kind.
Yet at the same time Bro. A. – God made ROME the last EMPIRE that would deceive the whole world. And its “Systems of Religions”. So can you agree with that.
Rome was the Mold for all Denominations to come out of truth and become a Harlot daughter. How – they preach their pagan fairy tales to this day. One here and one there and the people are so confused they do not know where to go for help. And Christianity has become a Babylon just like their Momma.
I am sorry for YOU that you believe that these prophecies have all been fulfilled, for clearly you don’t fully comprehend the reason for the repetitive and cyclical nature, nor the foreshadowing of the Word.
Answer – What do you think I have been teaching on since I have been on this forum. The Repetitive way of SIN AND UNBIEF, The cycles are always the same. Jesus – Heb. 13:8 – The same yesterday, today, and forever. It seems to me that you are the one that cannot see it dear brother. I have always said the O.T was the shadow of the Reality that is in Christ and the N.T. Other words.
The Old Testament had been fulfilled at the coming of Jesus Christ.
Above I have provided scripture from the Tanakh, which are exactly that same scriptures that the Berean’s searched to seek the truth.
I did not ask for your opinion regarding the above, nor did I require the simplicity of your analogy.
ANSWER – You might not have required the simplicity. But I’m trying my best to do you a favor by making it so “SIMPLE” that and child could see it.
YOU SAID – I did ask though for anyone to provide, “The name of one prophet that was ever killed in Rome, and show me one verse that would conclusively discredit all of the above, (which is only a portion as to what I could provide), that Jerusalem isn’t the same city that is described in the book of Revelation as Babylon.
Answer – NOW AGAIN I already answered it in the Above teachings. Along with the same kind of teaching that you stumble over. So Now Im going to even make it plainer – The Geographical Spot of the city Rome might not have ever killed a Real Prophet – So what it they didn’t . They still killed 68 million people all across the middle east, and Europe. For the cause to PROMOTE their HERSEY and PAGAN doctrines to hold the PEOPLE IN HELL. THEM PEOPLE WERE LIVING IN HELL UNDER THE POPERY – GERMANY the JEWS WERE LIVING IN HELL UNDER HITLER and the Roman Church who Headquarters were in the City of ROME stayed NEUTRAL. That is the same as saying WE ON YOU SIDE ADOLF — Did you know that RUSSIA’S Leader Mr. Putin himself is a Catholic. I just watched the current video’s on it yesterday. Proving it. Who will attach Israel the Nation. Russia will. And another thing that I try and tell People – Israel is not a Christian nation. They are a religious nation that needs converted to Christianity just like every nation in the world does. I respect them highly and pray for them. But its still the truth.
ONE LAST QUESTION FOR YOU TO ANSWER NOW – Do you or anybody else that reads this. Do you think that it could ever be “POSSIBE” that the 2nd. Coming could be FULFILLED ALREADY – Just like in Jesus DAY – THE O.T was FULFILLED IN CHRIST – BUT WHO CAUGHT IT – WHO CAUGHT THE END OF THE O.T. —– If Rev. 10 was the Coming of Christ down to the Last 7th. Age Prophet – And that happened 60 years ago. REMEMBER – HEB. 18:8 The same yesterday, today, and forever. People and religions never change their customs and or traditions unless God Opens up their heart with a Thundering Voice of the Archangel and breaks the sinful =doubting seal of satan that had them bound for hell and Seals them in with the Holy spirit to be able to see it. That is what it takes to “SEE YOUR DAY AND ITS MESSAGE” ONLY The 7th. SEAL coming into your Heart and Spirit can get you out of the Darkness of Death, Hell and the Grave.
Be Blessed —- bro. tom
James, James, James,
Do you have dyslexia? Can you even read? ADHD perhaps?
And can’t you see that you have been brainwashed with your 40 plus years of Catholicism into believing “Replacement Theology”?
Obviously not. (And unfortunately you are not the only one that can’t understand this.)
Christianity is not a NEW religion, it IS a FULFILLMENT of the OLD!
If God didn’t give Cornelius a vision and ask him to send for Peter in Joppa some 15 to 20 years after the Assembly had been formed by the giving of the Holy Spirit, there would be no Gentiles in the Assembly at all. For those first 15 to 20 years, there was nothing other than Jews in “the WAY”.
Now if that didn’t happen, (which Thank God it did), but if it didn’t, and no Gentiles were drawn by God in His Mercy, can you not see that this would be strictly a Jewish faith consisting of those that believed that Yeshua was the Messiah, and those that didn’t?
Dear Lord man, give your head a shake.
We are grafted into the Root. We are NOT the Root.
We, (believers in Yeshua) are the “Branch of Truth” that was grafted into that Root. Hence fulfilling all of the relevant prophetic scripture that had been provided within the Tanakh.
If you could only grasp and comprehend that one little fact, then that would allow for you to see many of the errors of your theology, which is apparently all based upon the hijacking of the faith by the Catholic Church.
In respects to your first question….. “So God is going to level the city of Jerusalem? Or is He just going to murder the residents? Or both?
Answer; Open the Book and read what God says, rather than asking me!
Scripture is full of foreshadowing, and history has shown that there is also a repetitive and cyclical nature within it. “Tell me, why all of a sudden does that all change, when God has clearly spoken about it?”
Though the Book of Revelation starts off with Yeshua’s epistles to the 7 Assembly’s, that does not mean that the whole book is in respects to Christians.
If anything, The epistles are a Warning!
They support what is necessary for those Assembly’s to get right in their relationship with the Lord so that they can take part in the “gathering” and escape from what is described within the rest of the book! Each Assembly, (other than that of Smyrna and Philadelphia) had issues that Yeshua was not pleased with, and He told them what they were. If they repented from those issues, then they would be able to possibly enter into the Assembly of Philadelphia and escape.
If they didn’t, they would maintain their position and become part of the Assembly of Laodicea, be spit out, and have to be tried in the fire.
This is why the transliterated word “Ekklēsia” (Assembly or Church), simply disappears from the body of the book of Revelation and is replaced with Saints, or the transliterated Hagios. Ekklēsia is a group or BODY, an Assembly of people. Hagios denotes individuals! I believe that the Saints are those from the Assembly of Smyrna, which will have a specific and particular mission within the Tribulation.
But you only believe what you believe because you are stuck in your error of replacement theology. That is why you don’t understand my interpretation.
You say, “You have the uncanny ability to misinterpret scripture in order to make a point, (Ha! Now there is the kettle calling the pot black statement.), but when you are asked why God would do such a crazy thing, you just say we can’t read God’s mind so we can never understand His reasons for these things.”
Again that is “false witness” (which you are accustomed to doing), for I never did say that. Instead I have told you to read what God says Himself!
James you are simply vacuous. No wonder you can’t comprehend scripture when you have difficulty in understanding plain English and what I have been saying.
Nothing that I have said is contradictory. You just assimilate it as such, and jumble it all around in your head. (When was you last medical check up?)
The Woman in Revelation 12 is the Israel that has not forsaken the LORD God and therefore will be protected, and saved.
The Woman in Revelation 17 is the Israel that HAS forsaken the LORD God, and therefore will be destroyed.
Jerusalem has been referred to as a woman and a daughter throughout the Tanakh everywhere, in numerous verses Period!
Again…. Read all of the Major and Minor prophets and see what God Himself has to say!
And how you and Tom can even consider these prophecies as being completely fulfilled is ludicrous. The Lord is not here Governing the whole world. I don’t see the Lion and the Lamb relaxing together in the fields. (But oh ya, I misinterpret scripture. lol.)
This would be for others that can still actually tie their own shoelaces without requiring assistance……
Lets look at Ezekiel, keeping in mind that scripture is clearly repetitive.
In chapter 13, God condemns the false prophets that say that Jerusalem will have peace, and that the foundation that the city relies on, is built with a weak foundation, and not of God Himself. He condemns those that hunt souls and are diviners which lead the people away from Him. God is clearly speaking of the people of Israel here, (the woman) where some, (the wicked), will be destroyed and some, (the righteous), will be saved.
This would be two separate groups of the same body of people, those that are “righteous and faithful” and those that are wicked of Israel. (It is not a contradictory concept if one can simply comprehend the English language.) Don’t forget, there are many Messianic believers in Israel. They are righteous because of the imputed and ascribed righteousness of Yeshua and the shedding of His blood.
In chapter 14, God questions Ezekiel as to whether He should even entertain those that come to Him that have idols in their heart, and a stumblingblock of their iniquity before their face? He then explains to Ezekiel as to what He will do when that happens, not only to the individual himself, but to the prophet that he approaches as well.
God then goes into a description as to how severe this punishment will be for Israel in His effort to draw the people back to Him.
It appears to be total destruction by what He says.
In verse 14:13., He says the He will cause a “FAMINE” and kill both man and beast from the land.
In verse 14, He expresses that the destruction will be so complete, that if Noah, Daniel and Job happened to be there, that they would be the only ones to escape. (This means that only the “righteous in God’s eyes will escape” the destruction”, whereas everyone else won’t.)
In verse 15, God says, “If I cause noisome, (evil in Hebrew) “BEASTS”, (living in Hebrew) through the land, and they spoil it, (bereave the land itself in Hebrew) so that it be desolate, (devastation and waste in Hebrew), that no man may pass through because of the beasts.”
Again this devastation will be so severe that if Noah, Daniel and Job were there, they would be the only ones to escape. (verse 16.)
In Verse 17 God says, “Or if I bring a “SWORD” upon that land, and say , “SWORD”, go through the land; so that I cut off man and beast from it:”
Again in verse 18 God says that the destruction will be so severe, that only Noah, Daniel and Job would escape.
In verse 19 God says, “Or if I send a “PESTILENCE” into that land, and pour out my fury upon it in blood, to cut off from it man and beast:”
And again regarding the total destruction from that, only those that are righteous like Noah, Daniel and Job would escape. (verse 20.)
In verse 21 God says, “For thus saith the Lord GOD; How much more when I send my “FOUR” sore judgments upon “JERUSALEM”, the SWORD, and the FAMINE, and the NOISOME, (again “evil” in Hebrew and living) BEAST, and the PESTILENCE, to cut off from it man and beast?”
Now, for those that are astute, (and are not perhaps experiencing the effects of dementia like some), doesn’t the above remind you of anything in particular?
What are the Seals that Yeshua opens comprised of? “HELLO”.
The first and second Seal are comprised of the rider on the white horse that conquers, and the rider on the red horse that takes peace from the earth, and kills with a “SWORD”. (Revelation 6:1-4.)
The third Seal is comprised of a rider on a black horse with scales in his hand and scripture would do more than suggest that he causes “FAMINE”.
(Revelation 6:5-6.)
The fourth Seal is comprised of a rider on a pale green horse. He is Death and is an “EVIL BEAST”. He rides with “Hell”, who is also an “EVIL BEAST” and both of these are demonic entities. These kill with, with “SWORD”, and with “FAMINE”, and with what the previous leads to “PESTILENCE”, and with the “BEASTS” of the earth. (Revelation 6:7-8.) These are who “make war with the Saints and overcome them”.
This can be understood from the following scripture regarding the fifth Seal, that is provided in Revelation 6:9-11.
Now back to Ezekiel.
In verse 14:22, 23. God states that He will save some, (a remnant that will escape), and also expresses as to why He has brought this evil upon “JERUSALEM”. (Revelation 12:14. Zechariah 14:5., Hosea 2:14-17., Matthew 24:16-21. etc. etc.)
“Yet, behold, therein shall be left a remnant that shall be brought forth , both sons and daughters: behold, they shall come forth unto you, and ye shall see their way and their doings: and ye shall be comforted concerning the evil that I have brought upon Jerusalem, even concerning all that I have brought upon it.
And they shall comfort you, when ye see their ways and their doings: and ye shall know that I have not done without cause all that I have done in it, saith the Lord GOD.”
In chapter 15 God continues by stating that the vine as a whole as it stands is useless, and that JERUSALEM resembles the vine. Therefore He will set His face against the remainder that are not righteous or faithful to Him, and devour them by fire.
Test the above in the Spirit, see if this resonates as being truth. Be a Berean.
I do not have all of the answers. I write what I believe that I have been led to write, solely to edify the Assembly and to contend for the Word of God.
Praise be unto Yeshua HaMashiach our Holy and Precious Lamb. The KING of Glory and Majestic Savior.
Amen.
a.
To All,
I am not going to debate any further with anyone regarding this topic.
I am simply going to write that which I feel I am led to write regarding it, and allow for others to make up their own minds based upon the Spirit.
I have noticed above as I expressed this proposal, (and have engaged with some), that the level of frustration that it creates, has actually brought me down to their level, and I have become overly sarcastic, belittling, and condescending in return. To all, I apologize for that.
This is a search for the truth and hopefully, a better understanding of Gods Word.
With that I will continue.
The above post (July 29th. @ 8:30 pm) of Ezekiel 14 is not regarding the being led away in captivity to Babylon, for Ezekiel was already there.
Neither is it referring to the final assault on Jerusalem, for many of Israel that were unrighteous were also led into captivity.
God expressly states that the only ones that will live would be Noah, Daniel and Job like servants of faith in this chapter.
This far more significant in nature, and is in reference to end times.
God also calls Israel and Jerusalem a HARLOT many times as well.
See, Isaiah 1:21., Jeremiah 2:20., 3:1, 6, and 8., Ezekiel 16:15, 16, 28, 31, 35, and 41. Ezekiel 23 regarding the two sisters from one mother, is rampant. Read Hosea. And Read Nahum.
Lets look at some of Revelation 17. and the Woman there.
Revelation 17:1., reads;
“And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither ; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:”
God has referred to Israel and Jerusalem as “whores” before too. Isaiah 57:3., Jeremiah 3:3., Ezekiel 16:28.
Revelation 17:2., reads;
“With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication , and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.”
Lets see if we can find any prophecy that may refer to this?
Ezekiel 23:4., says;
“And the names of them were Aholah the elder, and Aholibah her sister: and they were mine, and they bare sons and daughters. Thus were their names; Samaria is Aholah, and Jerusalem Aholibah.”
So Aholibah is Jerusalem. Read Ezekiel 23:11 to 49.
Revelation 17:3., reads;
“So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.”
The English, “the wilderness” above, is derived from the Greek “ἔρημος”, transliterated as “erēmos”, (Strong’s 2048). Within its definitions, it also represents a people that are “of a flock deserted by the shepherd” and “of a woman neglected by her husband, from whom the husband withholds himself”.”
Revelation 17:4., reads;
“And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:”
Many associate this verse to represent the Catholic Church.
Granted those that rule within that religion happen to wear those colors, and the “decked with gold and precious stones and pearls” could very well represent the vast wealth of that church as well. Also, the “having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication” could also represent the “pagan” practices, and the atrocities that this church has committed throughout the ages.
However, is it prudent to jump to that conclusion, and create a theology surrounding one verse, when there is ample scripture available that would suggest that the verse could be suggesting something entirely different?
“I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers’ skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk. I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck. And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head. Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen , and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom. And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord GOD. But thou didst trust in thine own beauty, and playedst the harlot because of thy renown, and pouredst out thy fornications on every one that passed by; his it was. And of thy garments thou didst take, and deckedst thy high places with divers colours, and playedst the harlot thereupon: the like things shall not come, neither shall it be so. Thou hast also taken thy fair jewels of my gold and of my silver, which I had given thee, and madest to thyself images of men, and didst commit whoredom with them, And tookest thy broidered garments, and coveredst them: and thou hast set mine oil and mine incense before them.”
The above verses are from Ezekiel 16:10-18., and they express how God Himself provided for Israel and Jerusalem, and that instead of being faithful for it, they became a harlot and fell into idolatry. Could not the above also be describing the same Woman in Rev. 17:4.?
This would be just one of the many passages that are in the Tanakh that express the same thing. What I find confusing, (and apparently frustrating), is with all that is provided within prophecy regarding this end time destruction of Israel and Jerusalem, that people simply seem to disregard it all?
Yet, the even more obvious question would be, “Why doesn’t it appear somewhere within the book of Revelation?”
I mean, “Where is it”?
Did God, after expressing what He would do numerous times just forget about it? Or could it perhaps be explicitly written about within Revelation 17 and 18?
I ask you, “What makes more sense?”
The “Woman”, (or great city, based upon verse 18), that is described within these 2 Chapters is “drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus:” as verse 6 states.
However, does that describe Rome?
When I had my experience and encounter with God there a month or two ago now, I was led by the Spirit to re-translate these 2 Chapters based upon the original Greek and the words etymology. As I have said before, all I basically did was type.
Since the beginning of 17:6 already suggested that of martyrdom, the Spirit had me utilize the primary definition of the Greek “μάρτυς” transliterated as “martys”, (Strong’s 3144), and substitute the word “Witnesses”, which is its literal meaning, and what the word has been translated as the majority of the time within the New Testament.
(A total of 29 times as “witness” in fact, within the KJV., as opposed to 3 times, (of which this instance would be 1), as “martyr (s)”, or the 2 times the word has been translated into “record”.)
The verse then came out as follows;
“And I saw the woman intoxicated with the blood of the murdered Saints, and with the blood of the murdered Witnesses of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered exceedingly?”
While I was reading as I was typing, I understood that the above was not meant to be an elaboration to the “murdered saints”, but that the text was implying that the “murdered Witnesses” was referring to a separate event that had transpired, and that “the blood of the murdered Witnesses was in actuality referring to the Two Witnesses killed by the beast outside of the new Temple that will be built in Jerusalem. The text of Revelation 11:7,8. clearly states that they will lay there dead in the very same city that the Lord Yeshua was crucified in. Yeshua also states in Luke 13:33.;
“Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.”
If these 2 Chapters are indeed referring to Rome as being Babylon, and that the Roman Catholic Church is a major player, why would they hate Rome and burn it down with fire, as verse 17:16. states?
“And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.”
Wouldn’t that be a kingdom divided against itself?
Revelation 18:2., reads;
“And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is “become” the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.”
The English “is become” above is derived from the Greek “γίνομαι”, transliterated as “ginomai”, (Strong’s 1096). It is a verb and its primary definition is, “to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be.” This would suggest that this city was once pure in the eyes of God, but has now “become” something different. Well, neither the original Babylon, nor Rome for that matter with Catholicism and its pagan practices would have ever been considered “pure” in Gods eyes. But Jerusalem has been.
Revelation 18:6., reads;
“Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.”
Isaiah 40:2., reads;
“Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished , that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the LORD’S hand double for all her sins.”
We know that the “abomination of desolation” will be set up in Jerusalem. We know that the Two Witnesses will be killed in Jerusalem.
This will be a Jerusalem of the future that will be ruled by satan, the beast and false prophet, since his desire as stated in Isaiah 14:13., is to “exalt his throne and sit upon the mount of the congregation”. Much of Israel will believe that he is the waited for messiah, for they and the world will be deceived by the signs and wonders, (Matthew 24:24., Mark 13:22., 2 Thessalonians 2:9., Revelation 13:13.) and by Gods delusion that they will believe the lie, (2 Thessalonian 2:11.).
This would also make sense regarding Revelation 18:7., which reads;
“How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.”
If the beast does represent himself as being the messiah, (though falsely), by proclaiming himself to be God, he would as scripture states, sit in the Temple in Jerusalem.
“Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.” 2 Thessalonians 2:4.
Paul doesn’t suggest anywhere within that verse, that this “temple” would be anything other than what would be located in Jerusalem.
And with Israel believing that this indeed is the messiah, and that there will now be peace and safety, (1 Thessalonians 5:3.), with this messiah sitting in the temple as God, Jerusalem will feel vindicated and will glorify herself, sit as a queen, and believe that with God there, she shall see no sorrow and is not a widow anymore.
So again,
Name me one prophet that was ever killed in Rome, and as well, show me one verse that would conclusively discredit all of the above, that Jerusalem isn’t the same city that is described in the book of Revelation as Babylon.
And now lets add a third question to the mix, “If God spoke numerous times through His prophets regarding this final destruction of Jerusalem in scripture, why isn’t it explicitly recorded within the book of Revelation?”
I am suggesting that it is.
Praise be unto the Lord of our Salvation. Precious and Worthy is our Glorious KING of kings, Yeshua HaMashiach the LORD of lords.
Amen.
well, you presented your viewpoint and backed it with scripture.
let it rest awhile.
To everyone else,
I just want to offer a few points to consider here.
First, the whole point of the Book of Revelation is laid out in the first three chapters – the rebuking of the apostate churches of early Christianity. These churches were not located in Judea or Jerusalem.
We must keep this in mind when we get to the end of the book.
So what is a woman in the Book of Revelation? Well, we know for certain about one woman – the bride of Christ. This woman is the true church, as was the church at Philadelphia in ch3. This is also the woman or rev12, the remnant of which will receive protection in the tribulation. This will be the woman who marries Jesus when He returns. The rest of the women (the whore and her harlot daughters) are the apostate modern churches represented by the ancient MYSTERY BABYLON religion on her forehead. These need to be destroyed before Christ returns to rule from His beloved city of Jerusalem, not a pile of rubble.
Unlike the Catholic church who does sit on many waters, Jerusalem does not. Everything in rev18 fits the Catholic church and almost nothing fits Jerusalem unless you try to force some unrelated verses to somehow seem to fit.
I guess it all boils down to common sense versus clever manipulation of scripture to make a point that in the end is simply illogical.
Once again I Say, Keep it simple, stupid!
KISS Everyone!
Revelation 1:3.;
”Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this “PROPHECY”, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.”
Revelation 19:10,;
”And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of “PROPHECY”.”
Revelation 22:7.;
”Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the “PROPHECY OF THIS BOOK”.”
Revelation 22:10.;
”And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the “PROPHECY OF THIS BOOK”: for the time is at hand.”
Revelation 22:18.;
“For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the “PROPHECY OF THIS BOOK”, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:”
Revelation 22:19.;
“And if any man shall take away from the words of the “BOOK OF THIS PROPHECY”, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.”
The English “PROPHECY” above is derived from the Greek “προφητεία”, transliterated as “prophēteia”, (Strong’s 4394).
For any that may have difficulty in fully comprehending what the word itself means, its primary definition is as follows;
1) PROPHECY
a) a discourse emanating from divine inspiration and declaring the purposes of God, whether by reproving and admonishing the wicked, or comforting the afflicted, or revealing things hidden; esp. by “foretelling future events”.
It would have essentially the same meaning as the Hebrew, “נבא”, transliterated as “naba’”, (Strong’s 5012). “To PROPHECY”.
Or the Hebrew, “נבואה”, transliterated as “nĕbuw’ah”, (Strong’s 5016). “PROPHECY”.
Just to clarify, (for those that may not yet fully grasp its meaning), the Merriam-Webster dictionary defines the word PROPHECY as;
1) An inspired utterance of a prophet.
2) The function or vocation of a prophet; specifically : the inspired declaration of divine will and purpose.
3) A PREDICTION OF THINGS TO COME.
Fortunately, they also provide a definition for kids.
1) The sayings of a prophet.
2) The FORETELLING OF THE FUTURE. {the gift of prophecy}
3) Something foretold; A PREDICTION.
Now just in case, lets look at “Predict”.
“PREDICT”
Predict is a verb and its etymology: from Latin praedictus, past participle of praedicere “to predict, tell ahead of time,” from prae- “pre-, earlier than, before” and dicere “to say”: “to declare in advance” : “foretell” on the basis of observation, experience, or reasoning.
“FORETELL”
Foretell is also a verb and simply (very simply) stated, it means to “tell of or describe something before it actually happens”.
But sure, lets just forget all of the above and go with a theory that is completely contrary to what Yeshua Himself, and all of the angels that spoke to John said.
Right smack dab in the middle we will throw out all the above, and instead have a HISTORY lesson. Not only history, but lets concoct something even more mysterious too. Lets have the Creator of something like the Church, actually be born from that which He Created, like the chicken or the egg riddle.
Sure, lets do that. I mean it is only God speaking. What the heck does He know?
17 And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
18 Son of man, the house of Israel is to me become dross: all they are brass, and tin, and iron, and lead, in the midst of the furnace; they are even the dross of silver.
19 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye are all become dross, behold, therefore I will gather you into the midst of Jerusalem.
20 As they gather silver, and brass, and iron, and lead, and tin, into the midst of the furnace, to blow the fire upon it, to melt it; so will I gather you in mine anger and in my fury, and I will leave you there, and melt you.
21 Yea, I will gather you, and blow upon you in the fire of my wrath, and ye shall be melted in the midst thereof.
22 As silver is melted in the midst of the furnace, so shall ye be melted in the midst thereof; and ye shall know that I the LORD have poured out my fury upon you. Ezekiel 22:17-22.
Praise be unto the Glorious KING of kings and LORD of lords. Yeshua HaMashiach, our Holy and Precious Savior.
Amen.
a,
You don’t have to convince me that Christianity is not a new religion, but simply Judaism fulfilled by Christ. In fact I believe the millenial church will be much like the church of Jesus’ time.
Now remember, the Jews did not believe in heaven and hell, and Jesus never taught it. Hte true Sabbath was always honored, not Sunday and Christmas and Easter were not holy days.
All of these are Christian inventions and will be destroyed as “Mystery Babylon” before the marriage.
So your comment fits perfectly with everything I’ve been saying all along. I just don’t buy into all that catholic / Babylonian theology that has been added over the years.
Jesus mentioned both heaven and hell.
He did not need to teach about it.
They already knew.
Jesus mentioned heaven and the grave, not hell.
If his Jewish followers already understood about hell, where is it explicitly outlined in the Old Testament? Why to this day don’t the Jews believe in hell? They still believe they “sleep” in the grave awaiting the resurrection. Jesus didn’t teach it because He didn’t believe it.
In the bible hell=grave. Not the lake of fire. Not Gehenna the burning dump. Not the burning bush. Not every mention of fire in the bible means hell, as you know it.
I think you need to review all the references to hell, grave gehenna, and see the context.
there is a hell with fire set aside for punishment.
there IS a use of the word “hell” which has that implied definition, if you look at the context.
this definition is not a garbage dump.
Marianne,
I’ve done it many times. The bible is riddles with proof that the dead go to sheol and await the 2 resurrections and the Great White Throne Judgement. Jesus stated it 14 times and never said the dead are immediately judged and then sent directly to either heaven or hell. If so, why the need for a resurrection and judgement day? It only makes the bible contradictory.
The Encyclopedia Brittanica, the History Channel and the records of the Catholic church all show how and when the concept of the eternal soul and heaven and hell entered the early Christian church.
You must have picked it up in bible school or from some misinformed Christian source and it is now so ingrained into your being that you just can’t shake it off. Sunday worship, Christmas and Easter are similar pagan practices that the world simply does not want to let go of.
But they will, believe me.
James
You start to be a pain in the as. As I told you before.Jesus is living on Earth and he is in the Vatican now. He worships sundays and celebrates Christmas and Easter.
Hey, Two months ago you said Jesus was on Nibiru and will get here on Dec 21st. What happened to that story?
And If Jesus is in the Vatican, why hasn’t the pope turned over the robes and hat to him? Why is he hiding? Is he scared? Afraid to show his face? Or does he have to wait till this pope dies before he can take over?
You are silly, but I like you because it gives me someone to make fun of.
And we can all use a little more fun, right?
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
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Mat 18:9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast [it] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
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Mar 9:47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
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there is no mention of a delay here.
James,
I responded above to one of your posts, (the one which you end by calling me stupid). That inference was attained by simply utilizing sound reasoning in as to how you employed the word within your comment.
Though your name was not present within the heading of my response, and the post wasn’t addressed to you specifically, by the content of what is stated within that post, it should be obvious that this post was directed to you. For sound reasoning implies that it is.
Scripture does the same thing in respects to the word “hell”.
If you continue to maintain how you perceive scripture, and contain it only within the parameters of the limited box of your own understanding, you will simply never understand it.
You say above, and suggest within a comment that you have made, that not once did Yeshua ever make a statement where people are immediately judged and are sent to either heaven or hell.
Didn’t He?
John 7:32-34.
32 The Pharisees heard that the people murmured such things concerning him; and the Pharisees and the chief priests sent officers to take him.
33 Then said Jesus unto them, Yet a little while am I with you, and then I go unto him that sent me.
34 Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me: and where I am , thither ye cannot come.
Above Yeshua tells the Pharisees, chief priests and Jews that were listening, “I am going to be here still for a little while, then I will being going to Him that sent Me. (Though not said outright specifically, that would be referring to heaven, and God the Father.) He then states to those listening, You will look for me, but will not find me, and where I will be, You can’t come. This would be because they didn’t believe Who He was.
However to His disciples in John 13:33-36., He said;
33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.
34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another .
36 Simon Peter said unto him, Lord, whither goest thou? Jesus answered him, Whither I go, thou canst not follow me now; but thou shalt follow me afterwards.
Yeshua plainly says that the disciples, “will follow Him later”.
Yeshua went to be in heaven and with God the Father, and the disciples, (because they believed that He indeed was the Messiah), will be there too.
But the Pharisees etc. won’t.
If you can’t understand that there are two (2) distinctly different destinations here, well quite frankly……..
The Great White Throne judgement could very well be for all of those that lived around the world outside of Israel during the time of the law, and all of those that lived and died before even hearing about Yeshua? God is a Just God, and He is not going to damn an individuals soul/spirit for all of eternity when they had no way to even know what sin was, let alone receive any form of salvation for that sin. A different book of life is opened during this judgement, (Rev. 20:12.), and they will be judged, “κατὰ τὰ ἔργα αὐτῶν “, or, “according to their works.”
You have the Bible, God the Fathers Holy Word that is inspired by the Holy Spirit. Why you would choose to have what is said in the Encyclopaedia Britannica, the History Channel, and especially the Catholic Church somehow supersede what God Himself says is beyond me?
Praise be unto Yeshua our Holy and Precious Savior. Our Glorious KING of kings and LORD of lords.
Amen.
a,
First of all, I intentionally did not respond to you in that post, but to everyone else. I have given up trying to teach you any more truths, you are stiff-necked and will not change until you see for yourself that you are wrong.
As for the KISS acronym, I have used it for years in my photography classes – it refers to composition. I didn’t make it up – I got it from Kodak, so blame George Eastman If you like. Why he didn’t say “keep it simple sir” I don’t know, perhaps that was too sexist.
Bottom line is, it’s not literal and I wasn’t talking to you anyway.
So there.
🙂
Hallelujah,
Well that is one prayer answered. Now if we can just get you to stop trying to teach everyone else?
The Book of Revelation is Prophecy. No History lessons are provided within it at all.
In Ephesians 6:12., Paul says;
“For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.”
And Yeshua as well as the disciples, cast out demons all over the place.
If someone is secular, I can understand as to why they wouldn’t necessarily believe in hell, but for a Christian to not understand the concept of a spiritual realm where one location is allocated for the Holy God Almighty, the Lord Yeshua and all of the heavenly host, where as the other for the fallen angels etc. just doesn’t make sense.
Oh and thanks for the explanation regarding the “KISS” acronym. I was well aware of its origin thanks, and was referring rather to how you actually used it above within your closing. I agree that your post wasn’t addressed to me personally, however its inference was understood.
If I may make a suggestion, the next time you read the Word, try taking the lens cap off. You just might bet a clearer picture?
Praise Yeshua the Glorious KING of kings and LORD of lords. Our Holy and Precious Savior.
Amen.
P.S. This isn’t addressed to anybody in particular either.
Marianne,
The passage you supplied is one I have indeed studied several times.
Jesus tells his disciples that If part of your body offends you you should throw it in the garbage. Some translations use tis word in place of hell fire.
Jesus was referring to the burning garbage dump outside of Jerusalem in this passage – a smelly disgusting place where people would throw dead animal carcasses and other refuse.
He tells them that the fate of a sinner would be akin to being thrown into such a place – referring to the lake of fire which is a metaphor for death and destruction – definitely not the kind of place anyone would want to end up.
Everyone knew about this dump so it made sense to use it in a metaphorical teaching.
If Jesus was actually describing a new place – hell as the Catholic church created it, He would have said so as clearly as when the Ten Commandments were laid out. The later bible translators were all contaminated by the early church and had a propensity to include hell in their translations. Unless you can reconcile this fact you will never be able to reject the false teachings that have made many modern churches apostate.
You also need an open mind and a kind of analytical/historical/scientific approach.
You can’t follow your heart on this one.
well, james, jesus did not say life after death for the sinner would be LIKE the garbage dump.
He just said “hell fire.”
so he was not speaking metaphorically.
Even what is thrown in a garbage dump fire eventually dies out. Hell in the after life is eternal.
Marianne,
Here is the verse from the Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010):
But I am saying to you, that everyone who will be angry against his brother without cause is condemned before the judge, and everyone who will say to his brother, ‘I spit on you’, is condemned before the assembly, and whoever will say ‘You fool.’ is condemned to the Gehenna of fire.
So you see, even though the KJV uses the word hell, the fire Jesus referred to was Gehenna – the garbage dump I mentioned earlier.
Your concept of hell did not come from scripture but from “common knowledge.” You see the word printed and it reinforces your beliefs.
Hell is not eternal. The lake of fire destroys all that is throw into it. The “soul/spirit” dies. Eternal hellfire is a misnomer created by the Catholic church.
You never explained why the dead would need to be resurrected If they are already judged and either in heaven or hell. And why have a Great White Throne Judgement?
It is simple, the dead rest in peace until they are resurrected, then they are judged. The dead in Christ are resurrected (pre-judged) at the second coming to be priests and teachers in the millennium. The rest wait 1000 years.
No heaven, no hell. No need!
see below for reply
James
Jesus have told me that hell exist and all people who belongs to an another religion than Judaism or Christianity will burn in hell after the doom.
To Marianne and Alienated and anybody that will read it.
Hell is a “Fallen sinful Condition” not a geographical place to go. The geographical place is right here on Earth. Death, then Hell, Then the Grave. That is the Darkness of the Worlds thinking. SO SIMPLE -Marrianne you talk double talk it seems. You say the garbage dump fire eventually dies out. Then say Hell in the after life is eternal. Yes that is true if you thinking “Eternal Death” .
You see some never have the SEED of “Representation” of Christ in them. The Seed of Jesus Christ is the ONLY FORM OF ETERNAL LIFE period. Jesus sowed seed then came the devil and sowed his seed. All other outside of Christ is living in “THE DEATH ROW” NOW and after they die. Judas never did have Eternal life. He had his chance. And BOUGHT into SATANs lies and unbelief. Buying and Selling is about your SOUL. Remember Satans first lie. You can eat from the tree of death and be like God = Eternal – But SATAN THE SNAKE CALLED FLESH drove Adam and Eve to a Curse. There is your Hell. Kicked out of the Garden of Eden. Now you gonna sweat, work, have babies in pain, War, famine, sickness, plagues, and Death till Jesus sets you free. Jesus is the Condition and the Place of Eternal Life. No where else Period.
Just like a “Dog” dies and have no life after that. Jesus Spoke of Hell more than any other prophets in the Bible. Rev. 22 – HE SAYS “DOGS ARE “OUT SIDE” of the CITY. Yes JESUS called many people “snakes, and Satan as a WILD LION – animals – That is what a man is when he is “given over to Satan” They filthy as dogs in their unblief. Is God gonna put a man down here on Earth ,cause He cannot live good. Then gonna send him to a Eternal Burning Lake of fire. Come on just think. Hell the “PIT” is the Garbage dump till you die if you a sinner. That geographical place is your MIND, HEART, BODY, SOUL. Jesus came to “Sheol” to die.
And Alienated you are so mixed up in your scriptures you need to humble yourself – Revelation is “NOT ALL PROPHECY” shame on you. John wrote it over the shoulders of the beginning Church ages. But they aint no sense and trying to help. Cause you my friend are set in cement and will not respond to New Wine.
I guess the first 6 church ages didn’t need the Book of Revelation or the Bible. Wake up. The 2nd. Coming is a progression all the way through the 7 church ages. Just like in O.T. Who understood it. — You and millions more are following your own heart and mind and the Theologians of our day. Go with the multitude its the Wide Gate. THAT S BIBLE PROPHECY for that day and our day. When you die then your day is over. Its either the Grave or Heaven which ever one you was living in while on Earth.
Many Scriptures have COMPOUND meanings.
You do not have to respond to this. You have been a smart elic to me starting with my 2nd. Post a good while back. Cause I did not agree with your Rapture theory. All kinds of people on this forum talk about how hateful and snotty you are to people and Im just agreeing with them. How God gonna show you anything with a Bad attitude. But you dont get it do you.
column too small…..see below…..
The Word Destruction
1. 2 Thess. 1:9 – Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
A. Destruction in Greek absolutely means “annihilation”.
B. Destruction also means to destroy to the ending point.
2. Corruptible means- Gr.5349 Decay, perishable,
3. A corrupted soul – is one that is controlled by satan.
4. The Soul cannot decay, But it can be destroyed – Eze.18:4 Matt. 10:28
5. Man is mortal – Gen. 3:22
Man separated from God is Death, Hell, and the Grave
In Hebrew
1. Sheol and Hades is same – means place of the dead
2. Sheol is not a literal burning place – 54% – translated – Grave
A. 5% of the time it is called — “The Pit”
3. 41% of the time it is translated — Hell
4. Sheol & Hell is burning – lusting for the carnal Tree of Knowledge.
In the Greek – Hell or Hades
1. Hell & Hades – Place of the dead – dead or alive
2. Gehenna -Garbage pit -smoking -worms – decaying flesh, dump
A. Gehenna was a Geographical place in Jesus day.
B. Lepers spent their last days there. beggers, etc.
3. Jesus used phrase – analogy – of Hell as apposed to heaven.
4. When Christ was on Earth – He was in Heaven and Hell
A. My God My God why has thou forsaken me.
B. Lived right among the devils, satans, lucifiers, serpents,
5. Jesus went through it all – death, hell, and the grave.
6. To Resurrect all in the Past, Present, Future — from hell.
A. O.T Saints went with him on His ascension back to God.
7. Jesus had to go to a place where God was not and that was
A. Death, Hell, and the Grave
8. The only way God could do it – veil Himself in Flesh
9. Remember satans, devils, serpents, Lucifiers, believe in God.
1. Hell is knowing God and then not Knowing God.
A. We all have Un-accountable innocence as a baby.
2. All Children are taught – unbelief, or faith
3. Easy for Parents to teach them either way.
A. Taught by the parents lifestyle
B. Either Tree of Knowledge or of Life
4. Don’t let death tomb you in. = it’s a carrier just like Life
Now the New Testament
Crown of Life and 2nd. Death
1. Life here is Zoe – Eternal life – #2222
A. Zoe is the Word for Eternal life in the Gr.
2. In Smyrna – Martyr’s got a Royalty Crown – both are Eternal
The 2nd. Death shall not hurt you
1. Your Book of life has been placed into the Lambs book
A. To have Eternal life
The Bible teaches us – 2 eternal plans – Life or Death
1. Hell is a condition on Earth While – in the time element
2. Your book of Life has to enter the Lambs book of Eternal life
3. Matt. 25:41 – Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed , into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
A. Prepared – means “had a beginning” – cannot be eternal
3. 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
A. Everlasting is not same as Eternal –
Everlasting means -ages to ages with different meanings attached
1. Also means to the “vanishing Point” both (time elements)
Mt 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Reapers-Gr. 2325- 1. to reap, harvest
2. expression for sowing and reaping
3. cut off, destroy as crops are cut down with a sickle
A. Tares are burned — good wheat goes into Gods Barn
Barn – #575 – of any kind of separation of one thing from another by which the union or fellowship of the two is destroyed
Bind -#1210 chained – as bound by devil.
Burn – #2618 – to burn up, consume by fire
Matt. 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Soul — is the nature of the Spirit that is living in you.= Character
A. It is either fallen or Risen -from the fall of man through Christ
Destroy #622 -575 – apollymi – to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to – ruin – to kill – to declare that one must be put to death – to perish, to be lost, to lose
Rev. 9:11 -#3– #6 –# 11= Heb. Abaddon = ruin, the place of destruction,
1. the name of the angel-prince of the infernal regions,
2. the minister of death and the author of havoc on the earth
3. perish, vanish, go astray, be destroyed , exterminated, blot out,
4. Object name of kings, Divine judgment, do away with
#623-622-575 Apollyon = “Destroyer” – the angel of the bottomless pit, the Destroyer
Eternal life is the Person of “Jesus Christ in you”
1. Only 1 type of “Eternal Life” and that =The Person of Christ.
2. Eternal Means Eternal – without beginning or end.
3. Everlasting has mixed meanings – eternal, ages, time periods.
4. When it’s talking about God it is always only 1 way = Eternal.
5. The Devil was a “Old Creation” and has an end.
6. Jesus Christ brought “New Creation” with “Eternal Life”
A. It’s a miracle birth, known before the foundation of the Earth.
B. You was in the Mind of God before ever born.
Ps. 139:15
My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
Ps.139:16
Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfected; and in thy book all my members were written , which in continuance were fashioned , when as yet there was none of them.
Mt 23:27 – Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men’s bones, and of all uncleanness.
Dead #3498- one that has breathed his last – lifeless-deceased – departed, one whose soul is in heaven or hell, destitute of life, without life, inanimate
metaph. spiritually dead, destitute of a life that recognizes and is devoted to God, because given up to trespasses and sins, inactive as respects doing right
Within #2081-2080 within, the inside your soul , the internal inner man the soul, conscience
Rev. 2 Second Death – #1208 – the second, the other of two
Wheat and tares – Right and Left hands.
1. Rev. 20:14 – All those that were in Death, Hell, Grave were cast therein.
#1. Die -5053 #5056 end – termination, the limit at which a thing ceases –
A. to be the end – the last in any succession or series – eternal –
B. that by which a thing is finished, its close
C. the end to which all things relate, the aim, purpose
Bravo Tom York
Concise, succinct and on point
Dear Marianne and all others:
This will be my last post on this subject above. If these 2 don’t help the forum. I reckon there is no need for anymore. God bless you all.
HEBREWS 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.
REVELATION 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their PART IN THE LAKE WHICH BURNETH WITH FIRE and BRIMSTONE: which is the SECOND DEATH.
HEBREWS 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire. The only ETERNAL fire there is.
I COR.13 Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be REVEALED BY FIRE ; and the FIRE SHALL TRY every man’s work of what sort it is.
I COR. 3:15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. —That’s while he is living ON EARTH -Ty
There are only 2 kinds of burnings. Man-made or God the consuming fire
Mankind is good at making “fires of War” to destroy all he does not like.
But the natural man’s fire cannot – destroy – the soul –
HEBREWS 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire. The Only “Form” of Eternal life
Now God has given to man a Conscience of Good and Evil – If man would receive the Holy Ghost and FIRE – God will burn all the sin and unbelief out of him during his Wilderness journey here on earth. That is what the Fire of God will do if you serve Him NOW while on earth.
If you do not serve him on earth. The fire of God cannot work for your benefit while on Earth. And you will remain in your sins to meet HIM. God forbid – And you will have your PART = TIME ELEMENT your appointment for your annihilation of the soul.
I would rather give my Heart and Soul and Body to Him now and be saved and filled with His POSITIVE Holy Ghost and fire – Which is Eternal. Man is a MORTAL – Jesus said come unto me that you might have ZOE = Eternal life. THINK ABOUT IT
Only God can destroy a SOUL – NOW while on Earth if your OLD MAN will die out and take up HIS OWN CROSS and Follow God – Luke 9. Then you can receive the HOLY GHOST AND FIRE NOW. It will cleanse you and purify you. Then your Name will be put in the Lambs book of Life and can never reverse. You receive ETERNAL LIFE IN THIS WORLD – JESUS HAD ETERNAL LIFE WHILE WALKING ON EARTH
Do not be deceived Hell or Sheol is mankind while on Earth. There are 3 heavens mentioned in the Bible. The Earth is the LOWEST OF THE THREE- Where the Regions of the dead walk on the earth. Jesus called them Devils, serpents, Father of the Devil.
Your Carnal Passion brings a Curse of Hell on you. What else could you expect. If you are eating from the “tree of death”. You are living for self gratification only.
But if Passions will turn to Jesus it will turn your Hell into Blessings from Heaven. Duet. 28 and 29 The blessing or the Curse. Plain as day.
Please let God in your Life NOW and be a PART of HIS FIRE NOW or pay the price of having to meet God in your sins and unbelief.
When your Body = flesh dies your Spirit goes back to God who bought it at Calvary.
Jesus spoke this in scripture. “He said I come from God and I go back to God“.
Every Human being or fallen Angel will do the same. Not just to be judged because God already knows your life the minute you flesh man dies. Your book has already been read by all men and especially by God. You going to the 2nd. Death or Eternal Life which is only Found in Christ.
CHRIST IS THE “ONLY” FORM OF ETERNAL LIFE THERE IS.
And you would have to have ZOE life in you to be eternal and go live in lake of fire for eternity.
So it would be impossible to go to a eternal punishment cause you would have to have “PUT ON CHRIST” to live eternally in a pit of Punishment or fire.
Yes it is a “Fearful” thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
The FIRST 4 seals IS ABOUT man kinds life without God – He thinks he is his own god. He thinks he is a king and can build a utopia without salvation from the REAL GOD. But BLOOD AND FAMINE is all he can produce. That’s the 2 and 3rd. Seal in ones life.
The cycle of a sinner ends in 3 steps of conversion by doing satan’s will –
DEATH COMES by falling from the tree of life, which Brings a life of HELL, which will put you into a eternal GRAVE – you was always dead but did not know it or seek for help from the living God. Look at our unbelieving World today. It’s Death, Hell, and the Grave and that is all that mankind can produce. For His inventions are all evil and kill men.
Death, Hell, and then the Grave – Don’t sound like much of a future does it. Then why does mankind insist on “rebelling” against God still.
Tom,
This would be a response to your post above of August 3, 2012 @ 5:05 am. where there was no room below.
Geez, I’m sorry that we can’t be friends.
And your argument plain and simple, is not with me, but with the word of God itself.
Above I provided 6 verses from the book of Revelation, that state that book of Revelation is Prophecy.
I didn’t pull them out of the blue, and neither have I taken them out of context?
That is clearly what was said by Yeshua our Lord and the angels that spoke to John and what John was told to write.
Furthermore,
To start with, the title of the book itself contains a certain amount of specificity regarding that on its own. The English word “revelation” is derived from the Greek, “ἀποκάλυψις”, transliterated “apokalypsis” (Strong’s 602) its definitions consist of, “Laying bare, making something naked. A disclosure of truth, or instruction concerning things before unknown. Used of events by which things or states or persons hitherto, (or until this time) have been withdrawn from view are made visible to all. A manifestation, or appearance.”
This would then mean, that all of this following information has been until now, “hidden and unknown”.
John states in Revelation 1:1. that this is, “The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must “shortly come to pass”; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:” KJV.
The term translated above as “shortly come to pass” can only be understood within its correct context, as to be referring to to the future, rather than having any historical significance whatsoever.
As well, (as stated in my earlier post above), this is also supported by what is stated in verse 3. “Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this “prophecy”, and keep those things which are written therein: “for the time is at hand”. KJV.
The English word “prophecy” is derived from the transliterated Greek, “prophēteia” (Strong’s 4394). The primary definition of prophecy is, “a discourse emanating from divine inspiration and declaring the purposes of God, whether by reproving and admonishing the wicked, or comforting the afflicted, or revealing things hidden; esp. by “foretelling future events”.”
And the term translated into “for the time is at hand” would again indicate that all of the following information is describing events of the future. (And prophecy could not be considered prophecy, if the information itself is already known.)
In verse 19 Yeshua says to John, “Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;” KJV.
Yeshua tells John to write the things which he has seen. This he evidently does by writing within the next verse Yeshua’s explanation as to what he had just seen regarding the vision of the seven stars and the seven golden candlesticks.
Yeshua then informs John to write “the things that are”, which are described with the epistles to the Churches.
The “shall be hereafter” would again indicate that this is a prophecy regarding future events.
The English word “hereafter” is derived from the copulation of the Greek words “ταῦτα μετά” or transliterated, “tauta meta” (Strong’s 5023 and 3326 respectively.) Combined in this manner they can simply be defined in English as “after”.
When the epistles to the Churches were completed, John was then caught up to heaven, and the voice that he heard said to him, “Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.” Rev 4:1. KJV.
Again with the inclusion of “hereafter”, this cannot be misconstrued as meaning anything other than regarding the future from when John experienced this vision, and the revelation from Yeshua, and the angels.
So above we have been provided with “revelation” and its specific definition. “Shortly come to pass”, and “prophecy” and its specific definition. “The time is at hand” (verse 3) and “The things that shall be hereafter” by Yeshua Himself in verse 1:19, and then “hereafter” again in 4:1.
That is six (6) instances in total, for the reader to understand the context of time frame.
If we take the remaining five (5) times that Yeshua or the angels express that the book of Revelation is prophecy, then that would make a total of 11 instances that either the Lord Himself, or His angels have attempted to make the context of the book clear to the reader.
Therefore since there is nothing to indicate that anything of a historical significance will be provided within the narrative, and that it is indeed a sacred prophecy provided by God to Yeshua to reveal what has previously been hidden to His followers, why do you refuse to believe the Lord and His word?
The epistles to the churches are also relative to today, and to some time in what I believe to be the near future. Therefore they were prophetic.
And “yes” regarding this particular issue I am in cement and will remain steadfast in what the Word states.
And who said that God made you to be mine or anyone’s helper in understanding His Word? I have never once requested for your help.
I’ll stick with the Holy Spirit as my interpreter thanks. Amen.
Personally, (which would mean that this is only my opinion), I have found much of what you have posted since your arrival here and first post on March 9th. 2012., to be rather confusing, and almost new age like?
And if you believe that I am following my own heart, well I would suggest to you that since my theology is rather mainstream, (with the exception regarding as to what Babylon would possibly be), that would suggest to me that the Holy Spirit is working within the majority of the body in which He instructs, (hence the “millions more” of us, as you state above), rather than those “individuals” that believe that they have more of a Gnostic interpretation.
Nonetheless, “yes” I can be a smart Alec, and will verbally spare with those who are willing to engage. But I haven’t read about all of those on this forum that you claim, “talk about how hateful and snotty I may or may not be”? But gee-whiz if you have said it it must be true.
Yep, I disagree with much of what you happen to write, but this is a forum of discussing either “like or opposing” view points regarding the most important of topics, so Passions are going to surface and discussion are at some times, going to be heated.
What’s that old adage? If you have can’t stand the heat,………..
You are just another guy that doesn’t believe in hell in my books, which in my opinion, doesn’t add to your credibility whatsoever.
Praise Yeshua HaMashiach the Holy and Precious Savior. The Glorious KING of kings and LORD of lords.
Amen.
dear Tom
This is a response to
https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/signs-in-the-heavens/#comment-146245
I am snotty?
I have allowed full expression of views here, and do not recall any negative feedback to you…maybe you can quote me…..we do have debates here, and disagreements…..but that is iron sharpening iron…..so I do not know what to say on this point…..
If this earthly life is the only place sinners experience hell, then all the righteous people who have suffered at the hands of evil men are sinners, and have deserved the hell of the life they have suffered, in many cases causing their death.
I also think of how evil men can have better lives than righteous ones, in many aspects, escaping the hell of this life.
So in this life good people can suffer, and evil people can enjoy themselves throughout their entire lifetimes.
Millions of true believers have been tortured, and martyred in the “pit” of this life.
So where is the reward for good, and the punishment for evil., if hell is confined to this earth?
Hi Marianne,
No, no, you are not snotty.
I am snotty. That was directed to me. lol.
I am also hateful too.
And a smart elic to boot! (Though I’m pretty sure that was supposed to be smart Alec. But who knows?)
I supposedly am following my own heart along with millions of other Holy Spirit filled and instructed believers.
And am stuck in cement not desiring to be taught by him.
Woe is me.
Maybe he is right and hell is here on earth?
Naw, he’s just being a smart elic.
Love,
a.
a
well, do not be snotty. be christ like….
what I am getting here however, that the hell I experienced on earth, which I agree is a pit at times, means I am a sinner being punished for my sins….
my happy go lucky afflictors are the righteous ones.
confusing.
dear James
So it is possible to lead an evil life, then get extinguished in the lake of fire in the future, with no suffering punishment for the evil done?
See my response to tom also, above.
in other words…
Many evil people never experience punishment in this life for their deeds.
So once they die, they “sleep,” then their soul is extinguished in the next life.
That seems pretty easy.
no punishment for sins.
if the evil no longer exist after death, as they are extinguished in the lake of fire, then there is no chance they will ever suffer for what they did.
Souls that no longer exist cannot suffer.
Marianne,
I believe that at the last resurrection everyone who ever lived, good or bad who were not worthy for the first resurrection, will be taught the gospel and be given the chance to repent their sins, be baptized in the Holy Spirit and receive forgiveness from Jesus. The rest, who reject the savior will go back to being dead – the Lake of Fire. I don’t even think the Lake of Fire is literal. It may very well be a transporter pod set to maximum dispersion which will simply return the person’s atoms back to the universe for some other purpose. I don’t think God is so vengeful that he will make people writhe in agony for trillions of years. Is that how you see our God of love?
Now, He will set the 7 last plagues on sinners for 5 months, but He won’t kill them for having the mark of the beast. It will just be a teaching tool for those who have been braking the law thinking the law was changed.
So that’s my God. Yours sounds kinda like Allah.
No likey…
James
Haven´t you seen Southpark? All except Mormons will burn in hell 🙂
God is vengeful toward the un-holy
Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord. (Rom 12:9)
You mean satan’s atoms will just be dispersed and he will never suffer also?
where do you get 5 months for 7 plagues?
how do you see the last 7 plagues as a “teaching tool?” God kills everyone at that time.
No He doesn’t kill EVERYONE before the 2nd coming. That would be dumb. Even those with the mark are not killed:. Here are the scriptures:
Rev 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
Rev 9:5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment [was] as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
Rev 9:6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
O.K. – Those not sealed with God’s law (lawbreakers) have the plagues but will NOT die.
Rev 9:10 And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power [was] to hurt men five months.
There’s your 5 months, plain and clear.
Rev 9:14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
Rev 9:15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.
O.K. Only ⅓ part of men are killed. Lots survive, especially those who are sealed.
The teaching tool thing is that the mark of the beast will separate the true church from the apostate. Those who defy God’s laws during the tribulation will be punished (that’s the vengeance of the Lord), but not killed – just taught a lesson.
As for the Lake of Fire, it serves as a dual metaphor. For the wicked who do not come to the lord, the Lake of Fire means a second death:
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell (the need for graves) were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
So for the wicked, the Lake of Fire means a second death. They were dead (asleep) before the 2nd resurrection, and now they simply go back to being dead.
But for Satan, the Lake of Fire means something else:
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Now even here I’m not certain that they will actually be tormented for all time, they may eventually die. That’s up to God. But they are the only three ever mentioned to receive such a fate.
After all, many people consider the death penalty to be cruel and unusual punishment. And torture while in prison went out with the inquisition. Are you one of those people who want our state and federal prisoners to be tortured during their sentences? Are we more merciful than Jesus?
Think about it.
Any other questions?
there are still 7 thunders and 7 vials after the 7 trumpets you cite.
those that have the mark are not protected by the destruction.
lake of fire.. “forever ” sounds like a long time
James,
In regards to your post dated August 3rd, 2012. @ 7:57 am. above.
Yeshua our KING and LORD was God the WORD and He was made flesh. (John 1:1 & 14.)
When our Lord Yeshua was transfigured upon the mountain, and Moses and Elijah appeared, God the Father said from the Shekhinah of His Glory, “This is my beloved Son in who I Am well pleased, listen to Him.” (Matthew 17:2-5.)
I guess that some people have disregarded that statement above, and have chosen not to listen to Him?
For the Bible is the Holy scripture Word of God, inspired by the Holy Spirit. It is, (being Yeshua), the Way, the Truth, and the Life.
1) If life does not exist after death, “Where did Moses and Elijah come from”? (Remember as well, that Moses body had to be retrieved by the archangel Michael from satan’s domain. Jude 1:9.)
2) Yeshua the Word Himself said, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.” (John 5:24.) He continues within verses 25 and 26.
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;”
3) The fact that believers, (when they physically die), are passed from death unto life into heaven, is also confirmed by Paul in 2 Corinthians 5:8.
“We are confident, [I say], and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.”
The English “to be present” above is derived from the Greek “ἐνδημέω”, transliterated as “endēmeō” (Strong’s 1736). It is a verb and its primary definition simply means, “to be among one’s own people, dwell in one’s own country.” Absent from the body and “present” with the Lord.
2 Titus 2:11., says; “[It is] a faithful saying: For if we be dead with [him], we shall also live with [him]:”
Then there is Romans 5:10,17, and 21. Romans 6:4, and 23. etc. etc.
James, You never did answer any of my questions to you regarding as to “how if we as believers don’t go to heaven when we die”, “Yeshua returns with all of His saints”? How could He return with souls/spirits of people who were never there?
For example;
“To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ “with all his saints”.”
1 Thessalonians 3:13. KJV
“And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying , Behold , “the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints”, to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed , and of all their hard [speeches] which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” Jude 1:14,15. KJV.
”These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him [are] called, and chosen, and faithful.” Revelation 17:14. Wouldn’t the “chosen” (elect) and the “faithful” be referring to the same “saints” as the above?
This is also happening at the time of Babylon’s destruction and when Yeshua will establish His Millennial Kingdom.
”And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.” Revelation 19:11-14. KJV.
This obviously, would refer to Yeshua coming at what is also referred to as His Second Coming, to execute judgment upon all the ungodly, and to then set up His Millennial reign. You agree with that don’t you?
Well when He comes, He comes with all of His saints!
So that would logically mean that there is a flaw within your ideology.
1) Either a “gathering or rapture” occurs prior to His second Coming, so that those that were gathered, could also return with Him?
2) The verses above are only speaking of those that have died and gone to heaven, so that they are able to return with Him?
3) Or that there is more than one resurrection?
Logically, if one believes the above verses, then the model of belief that you have constructed must be wrong, for one of the 3 possibilities must now be taken into consideration as being a possibility. Correct? I mean you must see that don’t you?
Lets look at 1 Thessalonians 4:14.
”For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again , even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.” KJV
Okay, Paul is reassuring the Assembly at Thessalonica that those that are “asleep” have not missed this future, “resurrection”, (verse 13), and that when it happens, Yeshua will bring those that are asleep, (that died in Him)……”with Him”. How can that possibly happen if they are not already there?
Believers go to heaven when they die, and those that will be accounted worthy of this resurrection to be glorified like the angels, (Matthew 22:30., Luke 20:36.) will return “with Him” for that resurrection.
Read Proverbs 11:19., 12:28., 13:14., 14:27. Jeremiah 8:3., 21:28., too.
Therefore, Hell is simply not the “grave” either.
Where you say that God won’t kill those “that have the mark of the beast”…. Well, what does God say regarding those that accept the “mark”?
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name. Revelation 14:11.
And,
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. Revelation 19:20.
As opposed to the following;
And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, [and] over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God. Revelation 15:2.
And,
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Revelation 20:4.
Sorry but Gods Word is Gods Word.
Why do you constantly profess your beliefs that are not only contrary to His Word, but blatantly contradict it?
Praise Yeshua our Glorious KING of kings and LORD of lords. Our Holy and Precious Savior.
Amen.
1) If life does not exist after death, “Where did Moses and Elijah come from”? (Remember as well, that Moses body had to be retrieved by the archangel Michael from satan’s domain. Jude 1:9.)
2) Yeshua the Word Himself said, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.” (John 5:24.) He continues within verses 25 and 26.
Yes: We do pass from death into eternal life – but we must wait for the second coming.
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;”
Yes: When Christ returns at the last trump, the dead will hear it (his voice) and arise from the grave (sheol).
2 Corinthians 5:8.
“We are confident, [I say], and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.”
The English “to be present” above is derived from the Greek “???????”, transliterated as “end?me?” (Strong’s 1736). It is a verb and its primary definition simply means, “to be among one’s own people, dwell in one’s own country.” Absent from the body and “present” with the Lord.
Yes: When we die, we immediately “wake up” all at the same time to meet Jesus in the air at his second coming. For us, it will seem instantaneous, regardless of how long we must “sleep” before the resurrection.
2 Titus 2:11., says; “[It is] a faithful saying: For if we be dead with [him], we shall also live with [him]:”
True. If we die with Jesus we will live with Him – at the resurrection.
Romans 5:10,17, and 21. Romans 6:4, and 23. etc. etc.
James, You never did answer any of my questions to you regarding as to “how if we as believers don’t go to heaven when we die”, “Yeshua returns with all of His saints”? How could He return with souls/spirits of people who were never there?
False: He returns with all his angels headed by Michael, to fight the demons of Satan at Armageddon.
1 Thessalonians 3:13. KJV
“And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying , Behold , “the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints”, to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed , and of all their hard [speeches] which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” Jude 1:14,15. KJV.
True: When Jesus returns with His angels from heaven, His saints are resurrected into invincible beings, will meet Him in the air and may indeed help fight the minions of Satan. I would die with your .357 magnum in your cold dead hands, just to be safe.
”Well, you get the idea – it is all a matter of timing. What is instantly in real time to you can be many years for the dead, but it will still “feel” instant. God doesn’t need to bring you to heaven If you’re already given an incorruptible body. You could just as easily stay here and do some good for the Lord. I’m ready for that.
Ask a Jew If you go to heaven when you die. They will give you the same answer Christ would.
NO!
Amen James – Jews don’t believe in Eternal hell. Or 3 Persons of God. All a person has to do is – get a concordance and check out if Man if mortal or not. I’ve proved it on this forum – Then check out all the words like Perish, Destroy, Everlasting etc. etc. I did all the work and put it in so simple a post. But I doubt that any body even reads them but 1 or 2 people. Months of work in my past. Lay it out plain as day and it would take them 10 minutes to read. But I get no returns for the effort. But like you say who cares. Im not putting any faith into a planet or star. I got my faith in the Word of God. The Holy Spirit will guide you into ALL truth. The Most most quoted scripture in the Bible is Jh. 3:16 . Listen to what it says.
JOHN 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not PERISH, but have everlasting life. People whats that mean – Perish
Here is another one:
MATTHEW 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. — Destroy here is same word as perish in Jhn 3:16 —- Hell is Gehenna – living in a “pit” Hell while on earth. Its called the Bottomless pit. In Revelation. Only Christ can save you from the tree of death and Sin – Sin only has ONE pull that is downward into the curse and death. Gotta Go – we believe pretty close – but there are some things we can talk about later if you want to. Its up to you —- OK
Jews don’t believe in Jesus either.
What they understand is not biblical criteria for a debate.
Jews have been notorious throughout the ages for getting things wrong.
That is why God scattered them.
False ideas and practices.
best to stick with scripture for debates.
P.S.
Please don’t bore me with a bunch of dictionary definitions and try to put strict and clever interpretations on these phrases. I know what the intent of the verses are. You must think like a disciple. You must think like a Jew. Think like an apostate Christian and you will never perceive the true meaning.
This explains a lot….about “sleep” after we die.
http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=the-Dead
James,
You say, “Yes”, we do pass from death into eternal life, but we must wait for the second coming.”
Wrong. Nowhere does scripture state that we must wait. And how could we come and return with Yeshua of we are not already with Him first?
You say, “Yes”, when Christ returns at the last trump, the dead will hear it, (His Voice), and arise from the grave. (sheol).
Wrong. That is not the context of the passage. The discussion of the “judgment” begins in John 5:27 where Yeshua then introduces the topic of the resurrection.
Then after copying and pasting the definitions of the English “to be present” with the Lord from 2 Corinthians 5:8., (where you basically lost the Greek and the transliteration) you say, “Yes”, when we die we immediately “wake up” all at the same time to meet Jesus in the air at His second coming. For us it will seem instantaneous, regardless how long we must “sleep” before the resurrection.
Well If that is the case, it still doesn’t explain as to how the “saints” come with Him when He comes. And why would we meet Him in the air, only to come directly back to earth to establish the Millennial Kingdom with Him?
Then you say, (in respects to my question as to why you have never answered, “How if we as believers don’t go to heaven when we die, Yeshua returns with all of His saints”?) with “False; He returns with all of His angels headed by Michael to fight the demons of satan at Armageddon.”
lol. Do make this stuff up as you go?
Where does He return from this time?
Scripture…. 1 Thessalonians 3:13., and Jude 1:14., says “saints or hagios” not “angels or aggelos” so they are clearly two entirely different entities.
In your answer regarding Jude 1:14,15. You say it again, and disregard scripture and replace saints with angels?
Why would I ask a Jew that doesn’t even believe that Yeshua is the Messiah, anything regarding death that Yeshua has already stated Himself in John 5:24-25?
Gee-whiz James, I am sorry that you are bored when I either explain Hebrew or Greek text for you and others. It is only done to perhaps add clarity for those that wish to have a better understanding of the Word. They are not clever interpretations either, they are from what is called a Strong’s Concordance that linguistic scholars have put together so that those that wish to study, will have the proper and accurate definition of words within the original text and language at their disposal. It is a shame that you have never utilized it as a learning tool yourself.
Nevertheless, I will leave what you say, and what I say up to the reader themselves to decide who’s theology is perhaps more sound.
One will resonate with their indwelling Spirit and be confirmed, and one won’t. It’s as simple as that.
Praise Yeshua our Precious and Holy Savior. Our Glorious KING of kings and LORD of lords.
Amen.
If God had decided to completely change what happens when you die from the sleep in sheol until the resurrection at the return of the messiah, that all the Jews knew, to a whole new deal – you are immediately resurrected, judged and sent either to heaven, or this new place reserved for bad people, called Hell, I would expect a complete explanation of the change somewhere in the teachings of Jesus.
Instead, Jesus teaches that the dead sleep until He returns (14 times I believe) and never mentions the new modus operandi of God. To me this is the biggest proof that there is no hell and that nothing has changed since the time of Christ.
Also, any history book or encyclopedia will record just how the concept of hell got into the early church. Hell comes from the Greek Hades, which is just like the Jewish sheol – abode of the dead or tomb etc.
You obviously have been brought up with this idea as was I, but your mind is completely closed to the truth so you will therefore never learn it – until the resurrection that is.
After we meet Jesus in the clouds (a kingly ritual) we will return with Him to earth.
As I said, it all comes down to timing.
Scripture says that when Jesus returns the dead in Christ shall rise first, then the living will be changed. So who are these lucky saints who rise from their graves? Not Jews – they are not “in Christ.” These are faithful Christians who are asleep, in their graves, awaiting the resurrection.
No other explanation is possible.
There can’t be resurrections unless the people are DEAD. Dead does not mean hanging out in heaven playing a harp, playing video games for a few thousand years, then jumping on the heavenly bus to planet earth when the time is right.
But I’m talking to a wall here.
Maybe someone with an open mind will read this and my efforts won’t go unrewarded.
Crap, it doesn’t really matter – Nibiru is almost here and we’re all going to die.
Bummer, Dude.
🙂
if nibiru is true, it will give new meaning to the expression “hell fire.”
this debate about hell has me totally numb and confused…..so I just hope that as many people as possible do not end up there, and find out the hard way
Dear Marianne – I pray and feel for you.
Revelation will come by the Holy Ghost – just trust in God and wait on it. Birth Pains is true – stepping over into the Spiritual World is a battle to say the least. This is not theology this is by Revelation. Faith cometh by hearing the Word of Truth. Heb. 11:1 – If a person never hears it then how is he ever gonna get the revealing of it.
Marianne,
There is no hell in the sense that there is everlasting torture. Such is a contrivance of the beast, and has no place in a loving God’s agenda.
dan
there is a hell and jesus described it. I go by what he says. and what the bible says. not man’s opinion
Don’t forget everlasting punishment, and eternal damnation. No way to explain those away.
Please, look at the hell concept. Question the Scriptures as He invites us. “Come, let us reason together”
Too often we as men get caught up in defining what we think, with archaic, emphatic, incontovertable declarations of what we “think” is, “is”, based upon preconceived notions unquestioned.
The scriptures are unlocking daily.
Consider what we now know of the Ark of His Testament! It’s here on earth, in heaven! We “looked” at it wrong. We forgot it as Jeremiah said.
We agree that the Ark of His Testament is here. It’s the most fantastic recent revelation that I can think of. Why do we yet argue about the mundane?
Open your hearts and minds. Hell was spoken of in many ways, including present tense.
You argument is not with me, nor I with you.
“Death and hell are thrown into the lake of fire” — finished
What God would you serve who ordains eternal punishment for such a short existance in this hell for which you had no choice??? A perfect God would ordain no such thing as eternal torment.
It’s been proven that punishment does not deter crime. What purpose eternal punishment? To scare the righteous straight?
Please tell me how hell would scare anyone into heaven?
Please tell me what purpose the stereotypical hell serves?
Dan,
We have had the debate on hell, and eternal punishment on this site, more than once already. This “theory” has met a resounding loss everytime, As there is no way to twist those verses that say everlasting punishment, and eternal damnation to say something that they do not.
To put it bluntly, An Eternal God demands eternal punishment for rebellion and sin. Yet he is Loving and gracious enough to give us the gift to redeem us by the Blood of his Son Jesus…
Hell is not there to scare you, you are condemned already to go there for your sin…it is the just punishment for your sin. The sooner you learn this, the more you will appreciate his love for you, and realize what a wretch you are apart from his love and grace.
God bless
I see that you really didn’t read what I wrote.
Debates? Should we really be having debates?
Do you “want” to believe in the “hell” of your conception?
The biggest problem in the world is that no one really “listens”
Dan,
You cannot change the definition of everlasting and eternal. That is like saying 2+2=5, that is not debate, that is deliberate deception. Like I said, this debate has been had and it leads nowhere.
I am try to save you face.
God bless
No, everlasting and eternal damnation is real. I’m not trying to twist words.
I’m asking, do we really have a true view of hell, damnation, etc?
God requires eternal torment? Or does He ordain it as a natural consequence?
If eternal damnation is a natural consequence, do we really have the correct view of events?
Dan,
Is the soul of man immortal? or do you see it as a “Babylonian teaching” that slipped into Judaism as most SDA people do? An Immortal soul demands eternal punishment for rejecting Jesus, The Only way to eternal life. Please answer at the bottom of the page, as the narrow comments are annoying.
Matthew 27:52,53.
“And the graves were opened ; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
After Yeshua died and was raised, there were lots of changes. The New Covenant took effect, (Hebrews 9:16,17.), and the above happened too.
I used to believe as you do regarding this subject. I believed totally that the dead “sleep” until the resurrection. You can read some of my commentary regarding my position on the “Visions of Deceased Love Ones” page when I wrote under my nickname “Buck”. (The Gravatar is the same.)
But some of the pieces of the puzzle didn’t fit? The saints returning with Yeshua being just one.
So I humbled myself in prayer, and asked God to please show me His truth. I wasn’t looking for affirmation to what it was that I believed, my heart was open to know His truth. Then over the next couple of months of study, pieces started to fall together as I opened my heart to what I was lead to.
Now I believe the total opposite of what I used to believe and all of those pieces of the puzzle that didn’t fit before, now do.
But you will believe what you want. It is all in Gods hands and what will be will be.
Praise to Yeshua HaMashiach our Holy and Precious Savior.
Our Glorious KING of kings and LORD of lords.
Amen.
O.K., I’ve heard this one before. Read the verse – it says that some people were resurrected from their graves – sheol, not heaven or hell – and walked about the city. So what? Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead – the tomb. He didn’t call him down from heaven. In fact when he died Jesus informedbHis disciples that “Lazarus has fallen asleep” later explaining it was death, not actual nap time sleep. He never said he went to heaven to be with the father – only that he sleeps.
This is what Jesus truly taught about death. He never once described the dead going to heaven. In fact he actually said no man is in heaven but those who came from there. Now this would have been the perfect time to tell his followers that the rules were going to change, but that lecture never came.
How do you get the idea that these people went directly to heaven? Clearly they lived again like Lazarus, but then died and are still awaiting the resurrection, although to them it will seem as If they just died. You see, time means nothing to God.
You figure If you died tomorrow, you would want to go to heaven’s waiting room and watch a remote feed of CNN to see the tribulation unfold, and not have to twiddle your thumbs in a grave somewhere for 20 years.
But that ain’t how it works. God doesn’t want people in heaven. That’s His home – His turf. Sorry but we’re not welcome there.
Yes I know that’s sad, many people long to see it, but it is not for our eyes. It was all just a bunch of false doctrine dreamed up by a bored catholic saint many years ago. It is this very kind of thing that the Book of Revelation is all about – Babylon – and how it must be destroyed before the wedding of the true church to Jesus Christ.
There is so much apostasy in all the modern churches it is no wonder that it is referred to as a remnant.
I believe the church of the millennium will not be far removed from the Judaism of Christ’s day (including the gospel of course).
We shall see.
No one could go to heaven, until after the resurrection of Jesus.
THey were held in paradise, until that time.
After the resurrection, access to heaven was possible.
Amen Marianne – “And if we are Little Jesus’s” the very “Offspring” of God Himself. We can say the same thing Jesus said in
John 3:13 – And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven even the Son of man which is in heaven.
Ole Nicodemus must have thought Jesus was insane to say He came down from heaven, and yet He also said He was in Heaven while talking to Nicodemus. – ver. 6 that which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is Spirit. You are a 2 fold person. God in HIS great Love will bring a believer to Heaven right down here just like HIS Son made it possible for us to be that as HE was. A Celestial man and a Flesh man . The Celestial man will win the battle. You was with God before the foundation of the earth.
JOHN 11:25 Jesus said unto her, “I AM “the RESURRECTION , and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
JOHN 11:26- And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall NEVER DIE . Believest thou this?
Jesus is the Resurrection – A Person – its all about knowing Jesus Praise God
Lord bless you – bro tom
James,
Okay then, if Yeshua never taught about anything other than “sleep” as being the “grave” and only being “death” itself, please explain Luke 16:19-31.?
a.
I have studied Luke 16 and the parable of Lazarus and the rich man and the explanation is a bit lengthy, so I’m giving you a link that will go over it in extreme detail with lots of scripture. I hope everybody will take the time to read it and understand it Its a complicated and fascinating parable and deserves a really good look.
If you’re interested.
http://www.christadelphia.org/pamphlet/p_lazarus.htm
James,
Okay, I will give this a read before simply dismissing it.
You do realize that Christadelphians reject many mainstream doctrines like the subject we are discussing, the Trinity, the pre-existence of Yeshua before His birth on earth, the Personhood of the Holy Spirit Himself, and that the Spiritual Gifts given by the Holy Spirit are not available today.
They also believe that the “devil” in scripture is a reference to “sin and human nature” that is in opposition to God, and that the word “satan” is merely a reference to an adversary. According to Christadelphians, the devil and satan can more or less be used interchangeably in reference to political systems or individuals in opposition or conflict, and have no relevance whatsoever to a specific evil entity.
I just realized while writing the above that this is you.
Why have you never come out and simply said that you belong to this sect?
Any way’s as I said I will read it.
I’ll get back to you with what I will more than likely disagree with tomorrow or asap.
a.
I never heard of this sect or their web site. I just Googled the chapter and picked a few links that looked sound. The author seems like he understands scripture and he understands how the Jews believed about death and resurrection. He gives many bible references to scripture that clearly indicate that Jesus taught that we sleep until He returns – verses I can’t remember and which would take me hours or more to research, although I remember the verses well, just not the locations. There are an overwhelming number of such verses – plenty to convince me that it is true. Maybe If you gave them a look you might change your mind – these verses are simple and clear – no room for error or misinterpretation. But the verses you use as “proof” to the contrary can all be easily explained away.
But it takes an open mind to do this, which I like to keep.
Maybe someday I’ll gather up all the scriptures and put it into one article.
Who knows…
James,
Regarding Luke 16:19-31.
Okay, the first thing that I disagree with is the comment that the author makes which is derived from his preconceived bias.
He states in point (3) under the heading “A Unique Story”, “Thirdly, it is unique because the teachings in this story clearly contradict the rest of the Bible’s teaching about what happens after death. For example no other support can be found anywhere in the Bible for the idea that ‘souls’ live on after death, or that the ‘souls’ of good and wicked go to different places. Or that Abraham is waiting to welcome the dead. This may surprise some readers, but popular ideas about souls going to heaven or hell, and so on, are not taught in the Bible. In fact they are repeatedly denied in both Old and New Testaments. Elsewhere in the Bible “the dead know nothing”.”
This is what his sect believes so, his explanation of the text must then somehow fall within the parameters of that belief.
I also used to utilize the same texts within the Tanakh that the author utilizes, (Ecclesiastes 3:19,20., 9:5., and 9:10.), to support my position when I believed the same thing.
Under the heading, “Bible teaching on death”.
The author states in point 1, “Man’s “soul” is made up of two parts – dust and breath:
This would be incorrect.
The author would have utilized Genesis 2:7. to formulate this conclusion but that is not how the text is to be understood. It is not mans “soul” that is made up of two parts, it is man himself, that became a living soul.
“And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.” Genesis 2:7.
So when God, (‘Elohiym) said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness”, (Genesis 1:26.), it was the forming of man from the dust, and the breath of life from God that created man, the consequence of that then, was that man became a living soul.
Under that, the author mentions that in Genesis 2:7., the same Hebrew is utilized for the English “living soul” as it is for “living creatures” as in Genesis 1:21,24 etc. This would be the transliterated “chay nephesh”. Yet the obvious and distinguishing factor here would be, that unlike the creatures, man was made in the image of God. Neither does it distinguish between that of soul and spirit. So I do not really understand the authors point?
However, (since you asked me to read this, in which I complied with your request), I would like to note that it was the author that brought up the Hebrew first, so though it may bore you, I see it as fair game now.
The author notes some further verses as being supportive, such as Job 27:3., 33:4 and 6., and Psalm 104:30.
I will paraphrase the original Hebrew text into todays vernacular.
In Job 27:3,4., he is saying, “While I live and the spirit of God lives in me, I will not speak any wickedness, or any deceit.” So I see nothing supportive or even relative there?
Job 33:4 and 6. is also not really relevant and Elihu says, “The spirit of God made me, and the spirit of Shaddia has given me life. (If you can answer me, then prepare what you are going to say, stand up and present yourself. vs. 5.) Speak, god like one, for I am also formed from clay.
However Psalm 104:30 is different, (though I believe that the author meant to write vs. 29 instead). Verse 29 reads as follows in the King James;
“Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.”
Now the English “thou takest away” above is derived from the Hebrew “אסף”, transliterated as “’acaph ”, (Strong’s 622). It is a verb and its primary definition is, “to gather, to receive and to collect”. The English “their breath” is from the Hebrew “רוח”, transliterated as “ruach or ruwach”, (Strong’s 7307).
It is “the wind, breath, mind or “spirit”.
Psalm 104:29., would suggest that God “receives or collects their spirit”, and that the body itself returns to dust.
“Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.” Ezekiel 18:4.
God chooses if the souls live or die.
I will agree with the authors conclusion as to who the characters represent.
But to make this response as brief as possible, (because I know that you won’t accept my opinion or understanding any way’s), nowhere does the author address the verses that I have asked you about regarding Yeshua coming with His Saints?
How is it possible for Yeshua to return with His Saints if they are clearly not there in the first place?
Signing out.
a.
Dear Marianna – Hope this helps us all- and I wasn’t speaking of you at all about being the one that was snotty. And you have also recieved my Message better than most all of them so far. I do understand that there is no Message on the Planet like this one. But this Message will annihilate all false concepts and lies. Just like Jesus Message did.
This is a reply to your Post – sinners not having to be punished for sin. And of course this a quick tip of the ice-berg. When you have a Message that will completely “Dovetail” together from Gen. To Revelation. You have a Excellent Message of the “Truth” But yea it takes time to grow up as a human and a Christian. We all go through the “Birth Pains”.
Yea the Sinner man enjoys his life. He does what so ever he pleases.
To the sinner his sin is his “heaven on earth” – And that is a profound statement to meditate on. The Bible mentions 3 heavens. The earth is the “Lowest” of all and this is where Satan was cast to according to the Lord Jesus Christ.
After the Fall of Adam. The whole human race fell. The Bible calls them Fallen angels = A Flesh Body that is filled with a Spiritual body inside it. = Fallen Mankind plain and simple
They LOVE adultery, getting drunk, getting high, cheating and stealing and controlling people, They LOVE their power of MONEY. They LOVE the WORLD.
But they all are living in SLIPPERY places and will be CONSUMED and none shall save them. They really know that there is a God = The Devil believes and trembles. But they will not acknowledge Him. So they are turned over to a Reprobate of Mind. And live only for the flesh man all their life.
But oh the believer’s know that “this life” ON EARTH is just a life to prepare yourself for Eternal life. The REAL PURPOSE in LIFE.
JUST TO BE “ ONE OF THE ELECTED, CHOSEN CHILD OF GOD” IS GREATER THAN ALL THE RICHES YOU CAN SPEND AND GREATER THAN ALL THE SIN YOU CAN DO IN A SHORT PERIOD OF LIFE IN THE FLESH.
You are Blessed just to have the Grace of God shown to you.
Suffering is part of life for the Sinner and the Saint – which one would you rather be when death comes upon you and or suffering as did most saints. The LOVE and Favor of GOD surpasses all the lust, and sin that is in this world. Plus we get Eternal life.
But the fallen angels that will not convert, repent, will die in their sins. They got their reward. Living it up in sin while on earth- they had their party. Sold Jesus Out for a short party time.
The sinner man chooses his path. Each one of us get to chose our destiny. I chose Life Eternal and hope that all listening or reading this post does the same thing. And Christ has a Legal right to chose His own Bride. Just as mankind does. Don’t it excite you that God chose you to chose Him.
The Plan of Salvation is a mighty, Everlasting Blessing not just a temporal blessing. I do not envy any sinner man. I’m dead to the World and its lies. AS the Bee Gees use to sing – Living in a world of “Make believe” that song is to all the World of unbelievers ———- Just like Bad moon arising is to. —— Just like – we on the Eve of destruction. Many of you will not even know these old songs. But mankind even know’s there is a end coming to their life. Where are most of those bands at today.
PSA. 73:10 Therefore his people return hither: and waters of a full cup are wrung out to them.
11. And they say, How doth God know? and is there knowledge in the most High?
12. Behold, these are the ungodly, who prosper in the world; they increase in riches.
13. Verily I have cleansed my heart in vain, and washed my hands in innocency.
14. For all the day long have I been plagued, and chastened every morning.
15. If I say, I will speak thus; behold, I should offend against the generation of thy children.
16. When I thought to know this, it was too painful for me;
17. Until I went into the sanctuary of God; then understood I their end.
18. Surely thou didst set them in slippery places: thou castedst them down into destruction.
19. How are they brought into desolation, as in a moment! they are utterly consumed with terrors.
20. As a dream when one awaketh; so, O Lord, when thou awakest, thou shalt despise their image.
21. Thus my heart was grieved, and I was pricked in my reins.
22. So foolish was I, and ignorant: I was as a beast before thee.
23. Nevertheless I am continually with thee: thou hast holden me by my right hand.
24. Thou shalt guide me with thy counsel, and afterward receive me to glory.
25. Whom have I in heaven but thee? and there is none upon earth that I desire beside thee.
26. My flesh and my heart faileth: but God is the strength of my heart, and my portion for ever.
27. For, lo, they that are far from thee shall perish: thou hast destroyed all them that go a whoring from thee.
28. But it is good for me to draw near to God: I have put my trust in the Lord GOD, that I may declare all thy works.
Tom,
I will attempt to not be snotty for you. (And I’ll also try to not be a smart elic either.)
So you think that, and compare your message to that of Yeshua’s? That’s a pretty big statement there.
The earth is not the lowest according to scripture. Scripture indicates that there is something under the earth.
Read Philippians 2:10., Revelation 5:3., and 5:13.
And “Oh Please”…. “Fallen Angels are Fallen Angels not human beings with a spiritual inside. Read the Book of Enoch. He is called a prophet in Jude 1:14. and in Hebrews 11:5., he is spoken about along with the likes of Abel, Noah and Abraham etc. as an ambassador of faith.
Read the Book of Enoch.
I better stop here. I can feel myself perhaps wanting to be snotty again.
I will agree with one thing that you say above.
We are all Blessed in having the Grace of God shown to us.
What is also funny, is that before I saw that you had posted it, I was going to suggest that you also read Psalm 73.
a.
You always want a answer – then you mock a man, you get personal with them, find fault in spelling – I know you a smart man. But God said he use’s the “foolish” things to confound the Wise.
I ask you a question days ago. You did not answer it. Where in book Of Revelation does it say Christ actually came down to earth to wrap things up. Where is that prophecy at in Book of Revelation. It’s really easy to find and then you explain it to me.
till next time. Bro. tom —-PS explain it in a single or two pages at most. I will see if I can find fault with your reply
Tom,
Sorry, if I missed a question that you may have asked. To be honest, I don’t read much of what you write.
So, you ask, “Where in the Book of Revelation does it say that Yeshua actually came down to earth to wrap things up?”
Well specifically I would say that the text that indicates that Yeshua will come to earth to wrap things up would be Revelation 19:11 through to 19.
Though I suspect that you will disagree.
(Was this concise enough for you?)
a.
Hey A.
I didn’t think you read much of my posts – Thats why you still got the same problem you always have had. A 5 or 10 minute read could open your blinded eyes. Then people wonder why they have no Revelation of Jesus Christ.
And you was wrong on the “Coming of Christ” in Rev. 19 That was part of it. But you way to far back. So I guess i will have to give you a hint. If you can get the “time” – punch in your concordance the first time is says “Sun” in a coming of Christ. Let me know if you every find it ok. Bro. Tom
PS usely before you send a Brother or Sister a Post Back – most people would read the post to see what that someone said. Duh!!!!!
i am lost here
Tom,
You may perhaps think that I have a problem, but I don’t think that I have a problem.
The reason that I don’t bother to read your posts, is because I think that you have a problem.
You think that I have “blind eyes”. I think that you have “blind eyes”.
It is sort of a stale-mate in that respect.
Your question, (which I clarified above was), “Where in the Book of Revelation does it say that Yeshua actually came down to earth to wrap things up?”
I provided the correct answer for you with Revelation 19:11-19. This text expresses as to when He will return to earth and establish His Millennial Kingdom.
That to me is a “wrap up”.
Perhaps you should have clarified your definition of “wrapping things up”?
If you were referring to Revelation 10:1-7., then “yes”, that would be a form of wrap up. But I believe that it is describing an event that you don’t believe in.
I do usually read the posts of people before I respond to them. However it is also based upon the individual themselves as well.
If I respect their theology as being Biblical sound, I read what they have to say. If I don’t, then I don’t.
a.
Jesus would leave end times ….unwrapped?
“Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn…Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!” (Matthew 13: 30, 40-43, NKJV)
He who has ears to hear, let him hear? Jesus said –
And so…as the responses to “Signs in the Heavens” venture off into Hell, here is the closing note of this post and I pray those findithe discorse above not a distraction from posted subject title, which to provide evidence that the end of the age is upon us. Blessings.
“Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says: ‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand, and seeing you will see and not perceive; for the hearts of this people have grown dull. Their ears are hard of hearing and their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, so that I should heal them.’ But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear; for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it” (Matthew 13:13-17, NKJV).
Amen to that.
D,
In respects to the topic of the page, consider the duplicity and cyclical nature of scripture. Based upon utilizing scripture to interpret scripture, the woman in Revelation 12, (in the physical sense), is Israel right? Genesis 37:9,10.
Yet, the vision, or what John saw and wrote about, could have possibly been the specific alignments of the constellations that you describe above too?
Could it have been a sign and warning that we are supposed to be watching for, and could it possibly have anything to do with Jeremiah 51:46?
Just wondering if that could be a possibility?
Be Blessed in Yeshua HaMashiach our Holy and Precious Savior.
Amen.
Brother Alienated,
Yes – Jeremiah 51:46 could apply – it accounts for 2 years prior to “violence in the land (Ruler against ruler).” A warning.
Always consider spiritual warfare as well as natural.
As for Gen 37:9 – yes, it give more meaning to sign of Sept 29, 2011.
There are 12 stars (crown) above Virgo perpetually. So, the 11 – 1 does being more to this sign’s significance. The “Man Child” is Joseph (favored child of Israel).
Therefore, we have a spiritual blowing of shofar (Feasts of Trumpets 2011) with the sign in the heavens (Rev 12:1-5) giving us a 2 year “warning”. The Great
tribulation begins in 2013.
Be a wise man (Hebrew at the time of His birth) and a wise virgin (Believer at the time of His return) – read the signs in the heavens.
The shofar can be a warning blast as well as the popular “rapture blast”.
Consider this – Marianne’s dream was posted on 11/11/11. That is no coensidence.
https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/when-the-flock-becomes-the-prey/
Now there is a warning dream!
What I did not share/post within “Signs in the Heavens” is that the sign, which began on September 29, 2011 ended on November 11, 2011.
On 11/11/11 – this was the sign in the heaven: Saturn (plant representing the dragon) left Virgo (Virgin) and Mars (war) was in the heart of Leo. And, on the same date – Jupiter (King planet) was over the head
of Cetus (sea monster Leviathan).
This matches (11/11/11) the war in heaven and warning in Rev 12:12-17.
“Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and sea. For the devil (dragon/Saturn) has been cast down to you (AC), having great wrath, because he knows his time is short (3.5 x 360 days). Now when the dragon (Satan) saw that he was cast down (this will be between Jan and March 2013), he (AC) pursued the woman who gave birth to the Male Child (Israel/Hebrews/Joseph)… he (AC) went off to make war with the rest of her offspring (“born of the Spirit”) who keep the commandments of God (written on our hearts) and have the testimony of Jesus Christ” (Rev 12:11 by which we overcome the AC).
Please read Marianne’s dream and replies.
The unfolding of her dream continues as does the signs in the heavens. The US will change very soon – believers within the US (50 sheep) are about (starting next year) to be under
“attack”. Put on the Armor of Light (Christ and His Righteousness – renewing of your mind and the Kingdom of God with His Armor).
Say, thanks for your replies and insights. The Strong’s definitions are helpful – but could you summarize them?
Strong’s helped me with the 3rd seal. It is not “earth” but region or terrane. So, this rebellion we see (Arab Spring) fits the seal in many ways.
Blessings.
I heard a trumpet a few years ago, and that was obviously a warning, not the rapture.
https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/first-trump/
There were several others also, in different parts of the country, who wrote in about that time, saying they heard the trumpet also.
Their comments are recorded on the page.
Any heavenly sign for May 28, 2010?
I’m without my laptop and software, only using my iPhone.
So, please somebody besides James – please download Stellarium.org and apply the date May 28, 2010. The software is not complicated and with a little experimentation – you can see any date/time in the heavens.
Signs in the heavens on Hebrew Feast days or special celebrstions are a key and worth noting.
Don’t know the signifcance of May 28 (Hebrew calendar).
The plant code includes:
Mercury = messenger / Michael or Gabriel.
Remember the Greeks, Romans, Egyptians, Babylonians, Asian and Hebrew religions either have name associations for plants/constellations that are the same or similar (wonder how that can be?).
Some astrology websites help, but realize those folks worship the “powers of the air” and use this as a source to decipher personal plans and outcomes. So, they use and abuse the signs the Lord gave us (Amos 5:8-9 and Job 38:31-33).
God names the constellations and plants for a reason. So we can know a little more, but we don’t seek the stars for anymore.
I can tell you – the wackos that worship via astrology and the occult are excited about the Mayan calendar for a reason. It does come close to marking the end of the age – but they didn’t have a Hebrew calendar 😉
There is a unique sign during the month of July 2013. The configuration of plants makes the “Star of Solomon” and this is getting those occult folks excited for a different reason.
Remember, there is a pattern or cycle of “Blood Moons” (defined by NASA), which occurs between 2013-2016. And these blood moons occur on Hebrew Feast days. That is no coincidence. The peak of these blood moons is between 2015-2016, which are over a 360 days and occur on several “feast days”.
This does match up with a Great Tribulation period and the words of Joel and accounts in Rev.
God gave us signs in the heavens. The wise men read them (good astonomy lessons and teaching from the Scriptures).
Blessings
D. lol.
I read what you wrote here above and then glimpsed at your dog that’s pictured in your Gravatar and felt like I was listening to “Yoda”. lol.
May the force be with you Luke.
a.
That’s Louie – French bulldog from a previous life/time. Great memories, with the pets of course 🙂
He was a funny, playful dog. Always enjoyed his visits to the house. Louie loved to play ball and to play with my Mattie (beagle).
Ya got me remembering and tearing up Al.
Good times a few years ago in house/home far far away.
Did you read those 30+ pages yet?
may 28 was about one week after Shavuot in 2010. There was one man in the comments that heard the trumpet on Shavuot. all are within a week of each other.
That was your sign sister – Trying to gather you in. To listen – Just to hear the Word of God – Thats what Thunders and Trumpets do. They carry a message. It makes no difference of how many heard it and how long it went. There are thousands probably everyday that God is trying to get THERE ATTENTION to hear. Hear what the Spirit of God is saying in your church age.
You say yourself it “was a warning” —- amen
D.
Hey sorry to tear you up. He was a pretty cute looking little tyke.
In respects to your 30 pages……
Nope I’m sorry brother.
I just have so much going on. It’s on my desktop though and I’ll finish reading it sometime. Promise.
God has me delving into a couple of things everywhere throughout the Tanakh, I’ve got pages scattered all over the place. lol.
I just have no idea as to where it is all leading to yet?
I love how He works with me. I feel like Hansel from Hansel and Gretel. He places a crumb of bread here, then a crumb of bread there, and has me going all over the place. I have noticed though that I have found almost every verse in both Revelation 17 and 18 in almost exactly the same narrative within the various books of the prophets. But I have also had to go through all of 1 & 2 Kings from 14:21., on and record the Hebrew meaning for the “mother” of each King.
Plus a big study of Matthew 24, and a re-translation of the epistles to the 7 Assembly’s in Revelation.
I have No idea? But it is certainly keeping me outta trouble. lol.
But these always lead to something amazing when I get to compile it all. Unfortunately it takes hours to do.
Hey my email is back up and running too. Just thought that I’d letcha know that.
Oh did you ever see my response to you on the “Noah and the Rapture” page?
Later bro,
Be Blessed in Yeshua HaMashiach our Holy and Precious Savior.
Praise be unto our Glorious KING of kings and LORD of lords.
Amen.
It’s 1:46 am here and I’ve been at this since 11:00 am. yesterday. Zzzzzzz.
a.
bed time!
Al,
Oh ya – Amos, Joel, Zeph are filled with insights into to the end of the age. See Zeph 3:12-13 and Zechariah 3:3-5 (“those
who stood before him”) as this is 144,000 intell. They receive “new head gear”.
Zechariah 4:11-14 connects with Rev 11
and the two witnesses.
Malachi 4 is the end of the age too.
I’m looking forward to the soon coming 360 x 3.5 because of Psalms 27 is His promise.
Take a breath, rest from your studies…Please read quickly the first 11 pages of what I gave you, then begin to slow down at about page 18 to the end.
Dude, this is called heavenly downloading.
“In the coming weeks we face a total war in Iran, Israel, Europe and the U.S. And the nation of Israel in its entirety must prepare spiritually.”
– Rabbi Rav Moshe Wolfson
Jewish Rabbi warns of “Coming Great Disaster” and of Redemption that May be Near
http://endtimeheadlines.wordpress.com/2012/08/07/jewish-rabbi-warns-of-coming-great-disaster-and-of-redemption-that-may-be-near/
REV. 5:1- And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a BOOK written within and on the backside, SEALED WITH SEVEN SEALS.
REV.5:2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
Very Simple Question – Who opened the Book – What was the 7 sealed book. And is there another chapter in Revelation’s that talks about this book.
JOHN 8:31-32 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye CONTINUE IN MY WORD , then are YE MY DISCIPLES INDEED;
32. And YE SHALL KNOW THE TRUTH, and the truth shall make you free.
If so called believers do not have enough Zeal in them to find these simple answers. I feel sorry for you all.
Bro. York
yea good to hear from you all –
Yes indeed the Lamb of God Opened the Seals at the Death, Burial, and Resurrection.
Yes = The Book is the “Book of Redemption” Was Open to all men. Somehow it got shut back up again. How?
By the Dark ages of the Church ages called the False Vine – Nicolatine, Balaam, and Jezebel systems of men that took the Word away from the People – It was called the Universal church – today we call it the Catholic church cause Catholic means universal.
But Praise God The “Book was Opened” back up in Rev. 10:1 by Jesus again but this time He is not the Alpha -Lamb. But HE is as when Lion Roareth the Omega.
Now Listen up if you want to learn something really Cool – The 7 Seals was opening up through chapters 6 through 10 – The 7th. chapter – is the Sealing of the whole Bride of Christ – Israel and Geniles as one Bride Rev. 7:9 plainly says “a great multitude” which no man could number, of “ALL” KINDREDS, and PEOPLE,and TONGUES stood before the Throne – The Jew and Gentile together in Acts and In the last 7th age as well. The 24 Elders and they was brought out of GREAT TRIBULATIONs – That is the 6 Church AGES lapping over into the last 7th. Age When God Comes on the scene again.
Now Christ has already Sealed you before the Foundation of the world. He knew who would except Him and those that would not. Or HE is NOT GOD the ALL knowing. The Alpha and Omege – beginning and end.
The 7th. Seal is Christ Himself – 8:1 And now He is loosing and revealing the 7 Trumpets of the church AGES all at once like the Seals all at once.
Jesus was in the “Midst” of the Church ages for the last 2,000 years as you should know. And HE is giving us a HISTORY LESSON on the complete 7 Church ages – “BECAUSE IT IS HISTORY”
The Trumpets are being Revealed in Rev. 8 all the way to Rev. 10. Then in Rev. 10 CHRIST COMES DOWN and appears on Earth and reveals the entire 7 ages in One 7th. day message to the People by a Prophet. Abraham 1 man had the message for his age- Moses 1 man had the Message for his age. And 1 man John the Baptist revealed Christ to his age and that is the pattern of Gods will. On and on like O.T so is N.T. Till Christ finish’s the whole thing up and it all goes into the Eternal age. Cause just like 1st coming the church as a whole was dead, dead, dead.
The End of the Age is here. Those of you that believe in a 7 year trib. in the future. It better hurry up and come. Also those that believe in a 3.5 year trib. I do not believe you got the time for that even.
And you actually believe that Anti-christ is “NOT UPON THIS EARTH NOW” you have a loose screw somewhere. To many Theologians with Gnostic ideas.
If YOU REALLY BELIEVE THAT IS STILL AHEAD – THEN YOU ARE SAYING THAT ‘CHRIST CANNOT COME TODAY” I have heard them say that.
This world could end at anytime. Just some lunatic push a button and the Rest is history. Today is the day of salvation. The big problem is that when American gets attacked.
Millions will not know they was wrong. The Rapture did not happen the way you thought. You did not have a few more years to get it together. It had already come and ye didn’t know it – Christ comes as a Thief in the Night. Rev. 17:15 Jesus and the 7th. angel was right there with the VOICE trying to tell you that. Call me what you want. I care more about you than your Pastors probably do. I’m telling you the truth.
I love you all – WAKE UP – that is what Jesus is saying to us all.
dj
I respect your research on what I call the “tetrad theory”, and it is quite compelling. But I see these “signs and wonders” as those that the false prophet will use to usher in the Antichrist into power, whereas the bible is quite clear, that Jesus will not ascend to his throne/temple, but will descend from heaven as fully annointed king, IN GLORY. In other words he will not need any signs and wonders, or signs in the heavens to prove his identity for he is LORD. The whole world, both sinners and saints will recognize his coming.
The same can be said for the endtime elijah, he will not use signs and wonders, but the false prophet will. Jesus does not need “signs and wonders” this time around, Or does he?
I will not respond to your response directly to this but I would be interested in reading your thoughts.
In Christ, The King of Kings
Interesting? There are a few ways to respond, various depths/heights.
Such a question requires more time to pray/meditate before giving a reply. This answer/reply is very important, considering the hour.
For now – to let you know that I am paying attention…the sign in heavens, posted herein, where given to us within the Word: His birth, death and soon return. Star of Bethlehem, Peter’s recounting Joel, and Rev 12:1-5 were above us.
The Scriptures tell us of the sign of His soon return by presenting this particular sign of Revelation in the heavens on 09/29/11, Feasts of Trumpets.
Now, as for the other “signs” and “wonders” in the coming months – I need time in the Word and seek Him on this matter.
I have my opinion/thoughts but want less of me and seek understanding.
Thank you for your reply and question!
I’ll let you know if I find rest by Sunday.
Blessings,
Proverbs 14:33
dj,
As you consider this, ask yourself these questions:
If you do a search on “Lunar tetrad theory debunked”, you will only find a handful of critics, and thousands of proponents. to me this means that either theory is so good as to be irrefutable?? Or that the babylonian system wants this theory out there??? Even the usual Mass Media critics are missing in this debate. The few that do refute this theory are pre tribbers, and this is because it does not fit their agenda.
Tom
You missed my point entirely! I do not deny the signs at his first coming, nor do i deny miracles. I am saying that at his second coming, he will return in glory, and not ascend to his throne…there is no need for signs and wonders. Even Elijah is said to correct the church, not to prove “send fire down to earth” That he is King. That is however an act which the false prophet will do.
To those who are curious about the false prophets actions, do a search on “rods from god” and look up the weapons system on “Jane’s defence weekly”. This system has the power of a nuke without the fallout (radioactivity). The name of the weapon, says it all.
In Christ our redeemer
Yea Friend – sorry I missed your point. I think now I’m understanding what you are coming from. Yea the Nations, of the poitical world – I think the Bible says they always inventing something for Evil. Not a exact quote but you get my meaning. So yea in that realm Im with you on that. The Beastly powers of the World have many ways to destroy. I will check out “Jane’s defence weekly”. God bless – Bro. Tom
A friend in Christ,
Please read my reply to both of yours below – this will start a new line of replies.
The media, accademic theology, mainline evangelicals are in for shock.
He means what He said in Matthew 24-25. His word always means what it says.
Signs?
What we have today is more like “a rebellious house which
has eyes to see but does not see, and ears but do not hear” (Ezek 12:2).
The Word is alive.
Blessings
Psalm 20
Dear Friend in Christ – Heb. 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday , today and forever. That is truth. God Never changes His patterns. Men do. Because of their unbelief that is taught them today. NOT to believe in Miracles etc. etc. But if you do not believe in Miracles then you are lost and dying in your sins. The whole Bible is full of Miracles. Dead rising. Sickness being healed. Duet chapters 28 and 29 God tells of your blessing and Curses. Its how you believe that affect your life.
ACTS 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and HEALING ALL that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.
MARK 16:17 And THESE SIGNS shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18. They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Moses had GREAT SIGNS right before the Exodus out of Egypt. Their is an Exodus in Revelation as well.
Noah had a GREAT SIGN – God shut the Door of the Ark and SEALED THEM IN – Seals are in Revelation
JESUS had Great Signs to Gather in the People – Signs are used as a TRUMPET to gather the people in – Jesus Raised the Dead, Healed all that were oppressed. Cast out Devils, Calmed storms, Walked on water etc. etc.
Then He preached the PURE unadulterated GOSPEL to them.
The Greatest MIRACLE of them all is the – BRAND NEW CREATION of GOD – That’s a Miracle. But the modern church is so lukewarm they do not even know what a NEW BIRTH IS. Birth is a Resurrection.
The RESURRECTION is a SIGN —- False prophets can only go so far. As Jannes and Jamgres withstood Moses and RESISTED the truth – then the Mark of the Beast came upon them – They were CORRUPT and REPROBATE concerning TRUTH.
EVER Leaning but never coming to the knowledge of the Truth.
If this is not our Generation today. While the Exodus is going on then I am a deceived man.
False Prophets do NOT It raise the Dead, All they can do is build kingdoms, and start religions, And start wars.
Mankind is limited – But the New Creations of God are Never limited. All things are Possible to him that believeth.
Thank you for reading my post – it was a blessing to hear from someone.
Check out the post on Nostradomus above. I have said alot more about the last days. Maybe you would enjoy reading it.
God bless you
Dear “a friend in Christ”,
You’ve presented a scond reply and mine here addresses both. Quick answer – Yes, the LORD incorporates signs from Gen to Rev. He is God. “His ways are not our ways.”
Now for the long answer, as briefly as possible.
Your question is: “Jesus does not need ‘signs and wonders’ this time around, Or does he?”
There are false apostles (2 Corinth 11:13-15), false prophets, false teacher, and wolves in sheep’s clothing all around us. This has been the case since Peter’s and Paul’s day and will increase until the end of the age and His return. These “false ones” present miracles to deceive even the elect. They are on TV, hold big sessions and bring lots of attention to themselves.
To help His sheep, who know His voice (John 10), the Lord said that these signs would follow after His disciples (Mark 16:17-18 ). These are signs confirming His disciples, including casting out demons in His name. If someone heals – they should cast out in His name too. If they don’t offer to cast out demons or do not cast out demons – they are probably, very likely “false”.
Those signs of a disciple never ended because there is no closure statement in that verse or anywhere in the NT. Therefore, those signs and wonders are going to continue until the end of the age and His return. The works of the False Prophet and AC along with those false teachers are NOT conducted/accomplished in the name of Jesus (Yeshua). There is the difference.
You include two points to contrast the work of FP and AC that I would like to address.
1) “the false prophet will use to usher in the Antichrist into power, whereas the bible is quite clear…he (Jesus) will not need any signs and wonders, or signs in the heavens to prove his identity for he is LORD.
Answer: He does not need signs. But, those that are His disciples do and will have signs (Mark 16:17-18).
2) “The same can be said for the endtime elijah, he will not use signs and wonders, but the false prophet will.”
The two witnesses will have power and authority to do Mighty works. Stunning and very upsetting to the FP and AC. So much so that they kill them, partying to celebrate their death. Oh, then the two arise from their place, going up to heaven and into the presence of the Lord of hosts! That is a wonderful sign, He is coming very very soon.
The other day you posted a reply that included the lunar tetrad (2013-2016) as a sign of His return. You suggest this Blood Moon cycle is not a sign, I think?
The Pre-Tribbers d