Signs of the Sun and Moon before the Day of the Lord

Joel 2:31 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

Act 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

This is referring to solar and lunar eclipses, where the sun will turn dark, and the moon can turn a red color. Usually the eclipses of the sun and moon occur 2 weeks apart, and not on the same day.

I have gone to the NASA website to find the upcoming predicted solar and lunar eclipses, and picked those in which the sun will eclipse first, followed by the moon 2 weeks later. I did this because the scriptures mention the eclipses in this order. These are the dates which fit this sequence between 2008 and 2020.

The “type” in the chart is the type of eclipse expected, in case that can influence the appearance and color of the object.

	sun	type	moon	type
1-Aug	2008	T	2008 Aug 16	P

13-Nov	2012	T	2012 Nov 28	N

10-May	2013	A	2013 May 25	Nb

1-Sep	2016	A	2016 Sep 16	N

2-Jul	2019	T	2019 Jul 16	P

21-Jun	2020	A	2020 Jun 05	N

Note: from another post about the Beijing Olympics, that the first one above occurs at the time of the 2008 Olympics.

From what the NASA website indicates, it seems like the total eclipse will yield the blood moon more than the other types.

So for this reason, I am giving the next chart, which gives all the eclipses grouped by year, and irregardless of whether the sun eclipses first or not. The tan color indicates eclipses in the same month. Total eclipses for the the sun are in blue and the total eclipses for the moon are in red.

Notice that there is a total eclipse of the sun, followed by a total eclipse of the moon 6 months later in 2012, and 1 and 6 months later in 2015. Is this part of the tribulation? The tribulation is 7 years of the wrath of God. Will it occur between 2012-2019?

If so, then the total eclipses of both sun and moon in 2010 will be the prophesied signs before the “great and terrible day of the Lord” which may begin in 2012. Will the 2010 total solar and lunar eclipses be mankind’s final warning?

	sun		moon
1-Aug	2008	T	2008 Aug 16	P

26-Jan	2009	A	2009 Feb 09	N
22-Jul	2009	T	2009 Jul 07	N
			2009 Aug 06	N
			2009 Dec 31	P

15-Jan	2010	A	2010 Jun 26	P
11-Jul	2010	T	2010 Dec 21	T

4-Jan	2011	P	2011 Jun 15	T
1-Jun	2011	P	2011 Dec 10	T
1-Jul	2011	P
25-Nov	2011	P

20-May	2012	A	2012 Jun 04	P
13-Nov	2012	T	2012 Nov 28	N

10-May	2013	A	2013 Apr 25	P
3-Nov	2013	H	2013 May 25	Nb
			2013 Oct 18	N

29-Apr	2014	A	2014 Apr 15	T
23-Oct	2014	P	2014 Oct 08	T

20-Mar	2015	T	2015 Apr 04	T
			2015 Sep 28	T

9-Mar	2016	T	2016 Aug 18	Ne
1-Sep	2016	A	2016 Sep 16	N

26-Feb	2017	A	2017 Feb 11	N
21-Aug	2017	T	2017 Aug 07	P

15-Feb	2018	P	2018 Jan 31	T
13-Jul	2018	P	2018 Jul 27	T

			2019 Jan 21	T
2-Jul	2019	T	2019 Jul 16	P
26-Dec	2019	A

21-Jun	2020	A	2020 Jan 10	N
14-Dec	2020	T	2020 Jun 05	N
			2020 Jul 05	N
			2020 Nov 30	N

This is just speculation, but if the Mayan calendar is right about time “stopping” in December 2012, then the total eclipse in November 2012 would be the warning sign right before this event, to signal the beginning of the Day of the Lord. Notice that the next set of eclipses would occur 7 years later, corresponding to prior to the end of the 7 year tribulation.

This is to also acknowledge that eclipses have always occurred, so one has to combine this data with other data that is also out there that agrees with prophecy.

I guess we will have to wait and see. But it would be good to be spiritually and physically prepared if any of this is correct.

Update – 4-27-08

This morning I received a video of a profound TV program by J.R. Church and Gary Stearman of Prophecy in the News, whose scholarship I have always greatly respected. A guest on the program is Pastor Mark Biltz, whose teaching emphasis is Jewish roots and who has also extensively studied the dates of solar and lunar eclipses from NASA and other astronomical resources, and how they line up precisely with Jewish feast days in the year 2015.

Watch this 30-minute program about the program. See what you think:

http://66.155. 114.80/video/ Dsl/5904- D.wmv

The year 2014-2015 on the Jewish calendar is a Jewish sabbatical year, as is 2008, which Mark Blitz thinks is prophetically significant. Here, I am not sure, since sabbaticals, for the most part, have happened every 7 years throughout Jewish history. But listen, and make up your own mind.

A “tetrad” is a rare series of four blood red moons. This will not only happen in 2014-2015, but it is a historical rarity that they will all be on significant Jewish feast days. (I agree, but remember scripture said the blood moon had to be accompanied by a dark sun.)

Pastor Biltz has discovered that the last time it happened was in 1967, the year of the miraculous Six-Day War when the Temple Mount was captured, and the one before that was just after Israel became a nation in 1948, all truly historical and prophetic years. This is extremely significant. Those two years, 1967 and 1948, are two of the most significant years in all of history.

In 2014-2015 there will be 4 lunar eclipses and 2 solar eclipses, all on Jewish holidays, including Rosh Hashanah in 2015! This will not happen again in this century

Their speculation- but interesting:
They discussed that 2008 is also a sabbatical year, and that 2015 minus 7 years is 2008, and the possibility that the 7-year Tribulation will begin in the fall of 2008! In connection with this, they noted the ominous signs of imminent war in the Middle East, possibly nuclear.

If that is true, this means the rapture could literally be at the door! Be ready. Do not be caught asleep, or your lamps without oil. Be filled with the Spirit, and as Jesus exhorted, “Watch!”

Personal note from Marianne here: My idea was that the Ezechiel 38 war had to occur first. Once that happens, we can start looking at the sun and moon.

Here is a physicist’s opinion about the sun in 2012:

Again, wait and see, but be prepared.

What about the upcoming Solar cycle 24, and its effects?

Click here for more.

To read about earthquakes connected to end time events, Click here for more.

To read about star signs in the end times. Click here for more.

To read about famine in the end times Click here for more

References:

http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/LEmono/TLE2008Feb21/TLE2008Feb21.html

http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/SEgoogle/SEgoogle2001.html

http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/LEvis/LEvis.html

761 Responses to “Signs of the Sun and Moon before the Day of the Lord”

Many people quickly say that the fact that the moon will turn blood red is simply a ploy. I always found it true and it’s right there in Revelations. I personally do not believe we can set a fine estimate on when the day shall come, but it is easily noiticable that it’ll come soon.

roberto127 said this on February 28, 2008 at 11:43 pm | Reply
- STUDY THE TRUE WORD OF GOD WITH PASTOR ARNOLD MURRAY AT http://www.shepherdschapel.com
  
  HE TELLS THE TRUTH ABOUT THE BIBLE !!!!!!!!
  
  mary e. waltimyer said this on March 14, 2014 at 2:47 pm | Reply
Couldn’t God go completely against nature & make this happen on any date since, after all, He is the Creator of the world & controls all things?

This is all very interesting however.

A. said this on May 12, 2008 at 8:45 pm | Reply
- G-D is a G-D of order…very mathmatical and precise and all that He does, so most likely, NO.
  
  lyndsey said this on July 24, 2010 at 2:52 pm | Reply
  - Then your god is a scientist.
    
    Miguel said this on May 18, 2012 at 4:35 pm | Reply
    - God invented science! 🙂
      
      Marianne said this on May 18, 2012 at 5:05 pm | Reply
    - Yes, Miguel! Your God IS a scientist.. so to speak.
      
      m. said this on June 5, 2012 at 4:20 pm | Reply
- If He (God) wouldn’t give you a sign of when the time will be then less people wouldn’t be saved as a True Father he warns of everything that his Children need to know, and the rest it’s distractions (world system) that owns it’s own Children. God doesn’t need to prove anything to anyone unless it’s part of His plans, for all with the true mind of Christ stay strong and keep the Faith in the truth of our Lord, Amen
  
  claudio said this on December 11, 2012 at 4:58 pm | Reply
  - I mean less people would be saved
    
    claudio said this on December 11, 2012 at 4:59 pm | Reply
- God cannot lie: His scriptures must come true or He would be untrue Himself and be found a liar: That could never happen, the only thing is that man can miss interpret His scriptures which are from His inspiration; see 2 Tm.3:14-17, 2 Pt.1:20-21; 1 Pt.1:10-11; The only question we should be worrying about are we going to be found without spot or wrinkle and blameless, which is perfect as our Lord is perfect, for this is what He is going to require us to be accroding to His words of truth, as we see here in Jn.15:20; Ehp.5:27; and Mt.5:48 from the Old Testament in Gen.17:1; God changes not, Mal.3:6 see also Num.23:19; Tit.1:1-2; Heb.6:17-18; Mt.5:17-20; Heb.13:8; Mt.24:35; Many are called but few will be chosen, Mt.7:13-14; Mt.20:16; 22:14; Without Righteousness that exceeds that of the scribes and the Pharasees no man will enter into Jesus’ rest and without Holiness which comes from being bron-again of His Holy Spirit, with signs following as in Mk.16:16ffs, baptized in Jesus name, Ac.4:12 because there is no other name by which we must be saved; if we are following Jesus’ Apostles words which were ordained of Jesus, Jn.15:20 for only they had the keys to heaven, even Jesus said man is not
  
  Rev. G. L. Boyett said this on October 24, 2013 at 11:19 pm | Reply
  - Man is not to leave out one jot or title untill all things will be fulfilled, and only those who are found in His fields of harvest obeying His every given scripture will be found to His likeing and in His will which is His word; see Mt.12:30-32 and 46-50′ for many will say Lord Lord in that day, Mt.7:15-27; see Lk.6:46; Jesus said IF you love me keep my commandments, Jn.14:15; Jesus said in Mt.4:4 that man does not live by bread alone but by every owrd out of the mouth of God! Lk.4:4 same verse only from a different point of view, must be imporatant I would say, after reading Jn.8:51 with verse 47 in mind beings only those who here God’s words will receive Him and know who He is in Jesus Christ who is both Lord and the Christ, Ac.2:36 and who is Lord of All, Ac.10:36 who died for us with His own blood we are saved, but we must know who Jesus is or we will die in our sins, Jn.8:24 and unless we know Jesus is the Father and when we have seen Him we have seen the Father as Jesus said in Mt.14:1 You believe in God then believe in Me
    
    Rev. G. L. Boyett said this on October 24, 2013 at 11:37 pm | Reply
    - see Mt.14:7If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
      8Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
      9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
      10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
      11Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
      13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
      
      14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
      
      15If ye love me, keep my commandments.
      
      16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
      
      17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
      
      18I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
      
      Rev. G. L. Boyett said this on October 24, 2013 at 11:42 pm | Reply
      - For this reason if we are not born-again of His Spirit we are none of His and never will be: Ro.8:1- 4That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
        6For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
        8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
        9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. 10And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. We have been bought by the blood of God; Ac.20:28 because Jesus’ Spirit is the very God amnifested in the flesh, 1 Tm.3:16 see Mt.1:23 our Immanuel who is God with us, see Is.40:3 who was John the Baptist preparing a way for? see Mt.3:3 but our Lord of all God with us who is the comforter as well as our secret who is wonderful, the Almighty God, see Is.9:6 the one who will never give His glory to another; see Is.42:8 and 48:11 as well as 1 Cor.2:8Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. I have much more to say to you but you cannot bear it right now, but after the Holy Spirit come upon you He will bring all thruths unto your reconning, the Spirit which the world cannot receive because it sees Him not and does not know who Jesus really is, write to me and I’ll be glad to give you all that He has given unto me to give unto the world who is hungry for the truth because we must worship Him in Spirit and in Truth, Jn.4:24! GaryLordsWay@aol.com
        Lords Way Ministries
        By Rev. G. L. Boyett
        Thur.24th, 2013 in the last days in the tribulation!
        
        Rev. G. L. Boyett said this on October 25, 2013 at 12:08 am | Reply
Hi A.

Sure!….God can do anything. What I do here is just explore possibilities….like “what if” this is true, or “what if” that might be true…..only God knows for sure how He will bring things about.

marianne

Marianne said this on May 12, 2008 at 8:49 pm | Reply
WOW! How could this be wrong? This is very, very significant and very,very important times…. This is our loving Father giving us hints and trying to prepare us for HIS SON JESUS to return for us… We need to pray for revival to continue to break out so the lost can be found!!! Come Lord Jesus Come! God Bless All, Patty

Patty said this on June 7, 2008 at 4:04 am | Reply
Patty,

Thank you, and God bless you for your comment. I hope many people start to think harder about the upcoming years. The timing of what will happen in the world is one thing, but each person has their own time line, and time to leave this life. WE need to be prepared either way. Each day God gives us is a gift to reflect and get closer to Him.

marianne

Marianne said this on June 7, 2008 at 11:14 am | Reply
We have been so excited since watching the video interviews with Pastor Blitz! Whether our Lord returns this year on the feast of Trumpets or not, this finding has made us excited to be WATCHING for our Lord’s eminent return, which is what He told us to do. He is so gracious and full of mercy and I believe He has allowed these things to be discovered for “such a time as this”, to warn His children and give us new hope and excitement!

Becky said this on June 15, 2008 at 12:22 am | Reply
Hi Becky,

Nice to have you. I agree that the Lord is gracious, and wants us all to be prepared. For there are many that are actually suffering, either due to man’s inhumanity, or for the sake of the gospel, and it is heart warming to think that a message, saying something positive will happen soon, will give these people the strength to endure to the end.

Blessings
marianne

Marianne said this on June 15, 2008 at 12:58 am | Reply
But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and of the day; we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; let us watch and be sober…1 Thessalonians 5:4-7

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: AND HE WILL SHOW YOU THINGS TO COME…John 15:13

The Lord will warn us of things to come, the watchman will agree together to sound the alarm, that the bride will prepare herself for the coming of the Bridegroom that we might be forever in the presence of the Lord. Praised be his name, Yeshua will soon sound the Shofar to announce the end of this age and the restoration of all things.

Rodney Dezarn said this on June 22, 2008 at 3:31 pm | Reply
- Hi Marianne….I noticed this and wanted to point it out to you:”Yeshua will soon sound the Shofar to announce the end of this age and the restoration of all things.” This was written June 2008.
  
  lyndsey said this on June 1, 2010 at 1:07 pm | Reply
Thank you Rodney,

We certainly need to be alert now. I pray that everyone hears the alarm, and prepares to be His spotless bride.

marianne

Marianne said this on June 22, 2008 at 6:41 pm | Reply
What do you think of Matt 24:29 – Immediately AFTER the distress of those days … “the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give it’s light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.”

This is a quote from Is 13:10 – however, if we read from the beginning of chapter 13 we notice it is talking about Babylon.

Just wondering your opinion on that.

Barb said this on July 29, 2008 at 3:48 pm | Reply
BTW, one more comment on Isaiah – today – right now – on display in Israel is the Isaiah scroll that was obtained from Qumran. It is interesting to note that this scroll was unrolled at the very same moment that Israel was declared a nation by the UN in 1947.

Could it be that this is a WITNESS to Israel at this very moment in history? I believe it is … I hope Israel hears

Barb said this on July 29, 2008 at 3:50 pm | Reply
Hi barb,

you are reading my mind…. 🙂

I was just thinking of that. Jesus mentions a time where saints will be going through tribulation…and then he says AFTER…..then he shows up….

the book of revelation discusses tribulation and wrath separately…tribulation comes first, and then wrath….the combination also seems to take longer than 7 years.

it is possible that the end times is divided into 2 parts…first the tribulation, where the saints are still around….THEN the wrath….( right now everyone calls the entire period “tribulation’) which may not be accurate)

the interlude between the 2 periods may be the solar and lunar eclipses, as a sign to the saints that Jesus will be coming soon afterwards…..maybe it is a kind hint to prepare and “look up.” The bible says that the devil will wear out the saints and win over them at one point….having a sign that their pain is almost over may give encouragement to the saints.

what do you think?

blessings
marianne

Marianne said this on July 29, 2008 at 3:59 pm | Reply
Hi Barb

I think the Jews are very serious – and excited – about the end times, like we are. Being close to them, I know their anticipation. They look to Jerusalem and pray every shabbat for the Messiah to come. It is a dear thought to me that someday, hopefully soon, the Jews and Christians will be on the same page as to who the Messiah is.

blessings
marianne

Marianne said this on July 29, 2008 at 4:05 pm | Reply
Times as here… I’m not sure how much more really needs to be done, but I “feel” there is an urgency for the word to be shared.

This is what “I” think … and of course, who am I?

Joseph is an example to who Yeshua is – at least to the believers.So, therefore, we should look at what happened during that time. It was during the 2nd year of the 7 years at the time of the famine that Israel came to Egypt to get help and then be delivered by Joseph. Joseph then revealed himself. The 2nd year? out of 7 …

Also, how long was the time of the plagues in Egypt? How long from the time Moses was told to go to Egypt and deliver the people? I don’t think that time period was overnight. There had to be years involved … but how many?

The answers to what we see in Joseph and Moses can be answers for today.

IMHO – The 2 witnesses could be Moses and Aaron – sent at the time of the exodus to be witnesses – Moses = Torah and Aaron = the priesthood (levitical system) Both need to be here at the time the Lord returns. Which they are today. Both in the Messianic (believers in both Yeshua and the Word – Rev 1:9,12:17, 14:12 just to name a few …) and in the Jewish community.

Barb said this on July 29, 2008 at 4:24 pm | Reply
Hi Barb

Past events are a foreshadowing, I think you are saying…

Like you said, the timing is still up in the air. But everything seems to be in place. I am looking around for something I missed.

For those that do not believe yet, the Word has to be summarized concisely, with the main point obvious, because most people do not have much time on their hands to read. So that is always a challenge, when there is much to say.

I had a dream last night I ran away from home, and then the police brought me back. I ended up getting drafted to go to a war. My brain is in a meltdown I think….. 🙂

blessings
marianne

Marianne said this on July 29, 2008 at 4:32 pm | Reply
Interesting dream … I guess we can’t run away from what God has called us to do.

Have you read any of the scrolls from Qumran ? There’s a scroll that is called “The War Scroll” that is very interesting.

Just wondering.

Barb said this on July 29, 2008 at 4:42 pm | Reply
Hi Barb

No, I have not read any of the scrolls. I did not know they are available to read. What do you know about the war scroll? Do you have a link?

blessings
marianne

Marianne said this on July 29, 2008 at 4:55 pm | Reply
I try to give “nuggets” of information on my website (which needs to be revamped to be as cool as yours ) … but here’s some more too…

http://www.fortunecity.com/tinpan/drumandbass/315/dsea/033.htm

Here’s some interesting stats on the scrolls …

To date a little over 800 scrolls – 200 +/- of which are scripture, 200 +/- of which are sectarian, 400 +/- are commentaries and extra books, ie. The Book of Jubilees, others of the apocrypha, Enoch, and commentaries that the sect wrote. One of which is the War Scroll … fascinating finds …

There are books published with all of them you can purchase one through Amazon (thru my website would be cool 🙂 ) http://astore.amazon.com/barbtodd2-20

IMHO – these tell us what they were teaching/reading during the times of Yeshua. The Book of Enoch is like reading the book of Revelation. Fascinating.

Also, did you know, the apocrypha, which has been taken away from believers for the last few centuries, has returned. It was originally canonized, and remained in the Catholic Bibles, however, during the early printings for mass production, it was cost prohibitive to include all 88 books. Hence, we have 66. We’ve been cheated.

Barb said this on July 29, 2008 at 5:06 pm | Reply
I left a post, I think it disappeared…

So here’s a recap: The War Scroll – http://www.fortunecity.com/tinpan/drumandbass/315/dsea/033.htm

There’s a great book – available online at Amazon:
http://astore.amazon.com/barbtodd2-20 (That’s my Amazon Store)
The book is the found at http://astore.amazon.com/barbtodd2-20/detail/006076662X/104-4472415-8399914

In short – 800+ scrolls have been found at Qumran – 200 +/- scriptural, 200 +/- sectarian, 400 +/- others, ie, Enoch, The Book of Jubilees, Commentaries, Apocrypha books, etc. They are a must read !

Barb said this on July 29, 2008 at 5:48 pm | Reply
I have tried to post twice, with links? Won’t post?

So maybe this way:

That’s the book with all the dead sea scroll finds to date.

online:
http://www.fortunecity.com/tinpan/drumandbass/315/dsea/033.htm
That’s the War Scrolls – there are others’ online as well.

The BEST book – in my opinion is “The Message of the Scrolls” by Yigael Yadin
His father had the first scroll out –

Barb Todd
Re/Max Preferred Choice
Ph 602-509-6156
http://www.barbtodd.com

Marianne said this on July 29, 2008 at 6:01 pm | Reply
I should preface, the scroll book is the extra books … fabulous read, but there are scriptures as well, and they should be reviewed, to check consistently with scripture. Pretty much right on – after 2000 years !

Barb said this on July 29, 2008 at 6:16 pm | Reply
barb

I am looking at the War Scroll now…really long and detailed, so I am first glancing over it. Interesting it has a reference to the use of horses…which is something connected to the fall of babylon in revelation. ..also assyria has always been an enemy, so why do people think the USA is the antichrist? I will go back in more detail later…..

i posted your references

blessings
marianne

Marianne said this on July 29, 2008 at 6:36 pm | Reply
Barb

All your info should be here now. I found you twice in the spam folder. I have no clue why you got spammed. I de-spammed you, and now your stuff is posted.

Maybe I should read the apocrypha and the book of Enoch. There is one book that has a neat title…Bel and the dragon…

blessings
marianne

Marianne said this on July 29, 2008 at 8:09 pm | Reply
I agree the book of Enoch is great. I think the reason it was left out of the King james bible is due to the many Angles it talks about by name. Most folks could not read back then, so those in charge gave a heavy dose of Christ with little elce.

According to Al Gore, it is mankinds co2 that is causing problems with the weather. But, we all know it is the Sun. The world would rather follow a lie, than repent. The Goreacle is all knowing.

Leatherneck said this on September 8, 2008 at 11:43 pm | Reply
- This is just a reminder Leatherneck and in case you did not know that the whole Bible, Old and New Testament, and those written in Hebrew as well were outlawed, as the Books of Enoch, were outlawed by the Catholic Church for a thousand years. This is why the scriptures were only ever read in Latin and translations were only ever done through the Latin Vulgate. Christianity per say did not outlaw it, it was outlawed to Christians, Jews or anyone who were neither Catholic Clergy or the Monarchies and their Royal blood lines, outlawed for all to read or have a copy by the Catholic Church who wanted the world to believe they were the only authority for such reading and it gave them power over all beilievers. A terrible and gruesome power indeed.
  
  As a matter of fact reading was outlawed to all other peoples so when Christian dissidents started to teach ordinary people or their servants etc, they and the servants could be burned for it. It was the Christian dissidents who brought back the Open Book ( the Bible) the Word of God back to the people. This is why the Open Book was chained to the altars in English churches so it could never be closed again though it took someone like Henry VIII to bring this about in separating from the Papal Church for his infamies, it servedf a greater purpose so when we read at all today it is a fact that many Christian dissidents and Jews for sure paid for this Blessing and honor with their blood to restore the Bible to mankind and the world.It was once thought that the Dead Sea Scrolls were lost but copies were brought out from Ethiopia when discovered by Bruce James and translated by Lawrence and Charles. The fact is that Jews always read the Book of Enoch alongside the Old Testament books which is why so many quotes are found in the Scriptures. The thousand year rule of the Papal Whores was the time of the Dark Ages and this mainly is what made them Dark. All were subject to understanding disctated by the Popes and their Monarchies. This is a darkness indeed. The books of Enoch are beautiful and full of Enochs prophecies of Jesus, the Son of Man coming to earth etc.
  
  These facts and history are not often taught in churches because well meaning Christians always take it as criticism of Catholicism and Catholic Christians as well as pointing out that it is so long ago it should not be brought up all the time but, it has effected 2000 years of the History of mankind and still today stops Christians from looking deeper into the real roots of Christianity and the real roots of Catholicism. The fact is that Jews would be put to death if found with copies of the Books of Enoc, as much as Christians would be. What an infamous past is hidden.
  
  marie jean said this on June 5, 2012 at 5:32 pm | Reply
  - Leatherneck, Foxes Book of Martyrs by John Foxe is an incredible read of the slaughters of these dissident Christians by the Catholic Church during this period of this Dark History. We have a very old copy but they are readily available today through a number of Christian outlets.
    
    http://foxes-book-of-martyrs.com/
    
    marie jean said this on June 5, 2012 at 5:38 pm | Reply
Hi Marianne,

You say that Scriptures ‘the Sun turning to sackcloth of hair and the Moon becoming as blood before the Great and Terrible Day of The Lord’ are referring to eclipses.
Solar and Lunar eclipses have occurred since the dawn of mankind.
Why would that be indicative??
Wouldn’t one think that BEFORE the GREAT AND TERRIBLE day of The Lord
that some other kind of event other than an eclipse would signify The Lords’ Grand Entrance???
Have you researched if some other event other than a Solar or Lunar eclipse
could happen to cause these signs in the sun and in the moon??
I personally doubt very much that the Scriptures here point to a mundane type phenomena.

Abigail said this on May 4, 2009 at 12:41 am | Reply
- Hi abigail
  
  The eclipses are just one indicator. They have occurred since creation, and are a familiar event.
  
  I think they only contribute a small time point to let us know possibly what time of year it might be, or which year may be excluded, so that we can see the timing better.
  
  Each sign is for those who have put hope in Jesus to deliver them. it helps them mark their progress through a great tribulation. What happens first,…then what happens next…and finally when will it be over?
  
  Revelation starts with 7 seals. Once we see the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse ride out, false peace, war, famine, and death of saints, we can then look to the next set of eclipses and an earthquake to let us know the wrath of God is about to begin.
  
  So why do we need to know that? because for those who are suffering through the tribulation, they need an endpoint…how much longer do they have to endure? what sign do they look for to know that Jesus is coming to rescue them? once the martyrdom has started, they will look to the next set of eclipses to know when it will be over.
  
  This is just some thoughts…there may be other reasons as well.
  
  Marianne said this on May 4, 2009 at 1:35 am | Reply
  - Sept 28, 2015! 🙂
    
    lyndsey said this on July 27, 2010 at 3:25 pm | Reply
That True. It’s Moon Red Blood on Dec 21,2012. The Rapture for only Christian who people names. Jesus is Coming soon!! (Revelation 21: 1-22) I believe to God. this true holy bible. God bless them.

Heather said this on June 25, 2009 at 4:20 am | Reply
I’m relatively certain that the darkened sun and moon are not due to any eclipse. First of all, they happen at the same time and eclipses would be at least ½ month apart. Second, eclipses only last a short time, cannot be seen by everyone on earth and have no ill effects on the planet. So who cares?
In Rev. 9:2 it speaks of the fiery abyss being opened and the smoke from the furnace rose up and darkened the sun and the moon. Possibly a super-volcano such as Yellowstone.
So Rev 6:12 most likely refers to a similar event causing a similar dust cloud. Sounds like nuclear winter to me.
So I think that trying to lock in a time frame by this passage is a colossal waste of time, but it could be fun I guess.

James Giordano said this on October 31, 2009 at 7:48 am | Reply
- hi James,
  
  I kind of agree with you. I have been looking for a better explanation besides eclipses. I explored this view to see how it worked out. Although it does not say that the sun and moon will turn dark on the same day or same time, one gets that impression from the context.
  
  Marianne said this on October 31, 2009 at 10:23 pm | Reply
- what about the one in Iceland?
  
  lyndsey said this on April 23, 2010 at 4:34 am | Reply
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2764647/Spiral-UFO-puts-Norway-in-a-spin.html

Marianne said this on December 10, 2009 at 1:42 am | Reply
- Sorry but I didn’t catch the UFO coming thru the wormhole. Also, if it were a wormhole (which is still science fiction right now) the earth would have been sucked into it if it opened that close to the surface. Just ask any astronomer or science fiction writer.
  
  James Giordano said this on January 1, 2010 at 12:13 am | Reply
A full moon … a full blue moon …. a full blue moon eclipsed …
a full blue moon eclipsed on new year’s eve.
Don’t think that 2010 will be a very happy year.
Unless The Lord God comes quickly to our help …

Abigail said this on December 31, 2009 at 10:49 pm | Reply
- I wouldn’t worry to much, them fact that the earth casts its shadow onto the moon on any particular day will have no effect on human affairs. And besides, there is no significance to new years day with the Lord. He set the beginning of the year to March 21 at the time of Moses. The Romans added January and February to the calendar and made Jan. 1 the beginning of the year. They also began the day at midnight rather than sunset and created the Julian calendar. I’m sure God doesn’t give a crap about Caesar’s new year day.
  The world is certainly headed for doom and we will need Jesus’ return to save us, but the moon won’t be the cause of any of it.
  
  James Giordano said this on January 1, 2010 at 12:09 am | Reply
  - 🙂 Well I’m glad you see it that way.
    I know about the julien calendar.
    But if we look at the moon as a feminine symbol and then read the moon shall turn to blood … makes one wonder when the earth casts a shadow upon its’ face. Especially at a festive time, which marks the commencement
    of another period of time A.D.
    
    The moon is certainly not the cause of anything except maybe … the tides and is responsible for clothing certain sea life…
    And for mating and for other frivolous things … probably too numerous to mention.
    
    The moon seems to mark her own calendar.
    
    Abigail said this on January 1, 2010 at 12:44 am | Reply
Don’t forget that God’s calendar is lunar based. It consists of 12 30-day moonths and no provision for leap years. The Israelites added this feature later and changed the new year from march to fall (Rosh Hashanah). It makes prophesy difficult to figure due to the 5 day difference in one year.
A womans’ menstrual cycle appears to be linked to the lunar cycle and it was accidentally discovered that the human sleep cycle is also linked to the moon but only noticed if the effects of the sun are eliminated. It turns out our bodies need a 25 hour day but we run on only 24 which may explain why so many of us need a nap or siesta during the day.

James Giordano said this on January 1, 2010 at 7:07 am | Reply
The sun and moon turning dark or giving the apperance of blood or ecplises has happened many times and will continue to do so and no end yet. What the bible is refering to when it talks about Christ coming, the darkening of the sun and moon, is it will be darkened because of the shekinah glory (the brightness) of His coming. So also the fake (antichrist) will resemble this somehow but fake. You must see with spiritual eyes when reading Revelation.

Mike said this on February 28, 2010 at 4:19 pm | Reply
- While I applaud your creative thought and your poetic license here I doubt that it will be true. I did some quick calculations and for an energy source to appear so bright as to make the sun look like “sackcloth of hair” it would have to be at least 1000 times more powerful than the sun. This amount of energy would toast every living thing on the planet. This is only true of course if you take the prophecy literally. If you do then you must take into account the fact that the moon will appear red in color. For that to happen there must be a scattering of the shorter wavelengths due to small particles (like dust) between the moon and the viewer. This happens during lunar eclipses of course but it also happens at moonrise and moonset just as the sun is often reddened at these times. It also happens after volcanic eruptions (and occasional monster meteor strikes) as the ash enters the upper atmosphere. It would not happen under your scenario.
  Also, the verses come just after great earthquakes, a volcano (mountain of fire) and a “star” falling from heaven.
  It almost goes without saying that by the time the verse in question occurs, the atmosphere will most assuredly be filled with smoke, ash and dust, so the sun and moon will already be darkened well before the actual return of Jesus.
  Your description may be true but if it is, it’s out of place.
  But it’s still a swell analogy.
  
  James Giordano said this on March 6, 2010 at 3:28 am | Reply
Yes, Jesus said that earthquakes will increase in the end times, and now, 2010, it is extremely shocking to look at the data.

The Bible also says that the sign of the coming of the Son of Man will be like the time of Noah. What happened during the time of Noah? Moral decay, violence, and everyone made fun of Noah, saying that there won’t be a flood, and they said he was crazy. Of course, there was no such thing as rain back then (as the Bible says), and they said a coming flood is scientificly wrong and they did not believe Noah.
But, the flood came! and took them away.

And this is exactly true today! We look at Bible prophecy and realize that Jesus’ coming is very near: earthquakes, pestilences, famines, wars and rumors of wars… but the secular people of today claim that we are mistaken and that everything is normal and going as ever before. Let us read the Bible and be at watch, trusting fully in the Lord of our salvation. 🙂
So, dear friends, when you see the skeptics, know that history repeats itself: this same thing happened to Noah before the flood. The same thing happened to Lot when he warned his family about the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. So today, the nonbelievers will deride us. But this gospel will go to all the end of the world, and then the end will come.

Do not be afraid, not even a bird will fall to the ground apart from the will of the Father, and how much more will He care for us? 🙂

Trusting in the Lord,
Your Friend.

Grace said this on March 5, 2010 at 5:33 am | Reply
- Hi Grace,
  
  Valuable comment. 🙂
  
  Marianne said this on March 5, 2010 at 11:18 am | Reply
  - Hi Marianne,
    
    …”the possibility that the 7-year Tribulation will begin in the fall of 2008!..”
    
    While watching the results of the election in the fall 2008…and when it became finalized that Obama had won….the Holy Spirit spoke to me very clearly and said “It has begun”. I will never forget that moment. I became physically ill as if I knew that I knew….so….perhaps the beginning of the 7 years is what the Holy Spirit meant…(here is some history behind this…as a little girl and hearing often of the end tmes…I would pray to G-D that He would let me know when the AC had come upon the scene so that I would not be deceived, I must of been aroun 6 or 7yrs.) Well, 36 years later, while watching yet another election among many, the Holy Spirit spoke and was very clear…”It has begun”. That is all that He said; He didn’t say who was the AC….so I am not accusing…but I am cautious at this point and have my eyes wide open!
    
    Thank you for this post…it is very helpful; I can tell you put alot of work into doing it; great job!
    
    lyndsey said this on March 21, 2010 at 10:14 pm | Reply
- Hi Grace,
  You make a good point and I would like to add to it.
  All prophecy has been for God’s people, not for people of other faiths. In the OT he was always trying to correct the Israelites primarily for breaking His commandments. Another example was Jeremiah who warned the Jews that if they did not mend their ways (worshiping idols and neglecting the sabbath etc.) God would withdraw his protection and allow the Babylonians capture them and destroy Jerusalem. These were all God’s believers but they had gone astray. God did not punish the pagan Babylonians. In fact he rewarded them with thousands of Jewish slaves for 70 years.
  He did not reward the righteous Jews either. Even the prophet Daniel was taken prisoner and had to live out his life in captivity.
  My point is that we can not sit back and assume us believers are fine and that only the non-believers are at risk. The Revelation is for the true believers. It is a warning to us, that we are not as perfect as we may think. We are still sinning – breaking commandments and doing things that we would not be doing if Jesus was here.
  And He’s coming soon so it is time to get our act together before He gets here. This is the true meaning of Revelation – not the beasts and the antichrist and the seals etc.
  Unfortunately, most Christians believe they don’t need the lessons in Revelation since they will be raptured to safety before the bad stuff comes down.
  Noah went thru the flood, Lot had to flee from Sodom and Daniel and the rest didn’t escape at all.
  As you said, history repeats itself and if it does, the true believers will not escape the tribulation. Hopefully, with the help of discussions like these, we will understand the true meaning of the Revelation before the time arrives.
  God bless…
  
  James Giordano said this on March 6, 2010 at 9:55 am | Reply
  - “Noah went thru the flood, Lot had to flee from Sodom”….Noah did NOT drown and Lot did NOT burn up! They “escaped” the judgement……and as far as Daniel is concerned, G-D still Protected!!!
    
    If you wanna go thru the tribulation then that is your choice but I am going whereever He leads and that is UP! 🙂
    
    lyndsey said this on March 21, 2010 at 10:19 pm | Reply
    - Your eyes are wide open like moo-ns, for we are in the tribulation, and God will lead us safely through it…up at the end, and soon down again !!
      
      Richard said this on March 21, 2010 at 11:52 pm | Reply
  - STUDY THE TRUE WORD OF GOD WITH PASTOR ARNOLD MURRAY AT http://www.shepherdschapel.com
    
    AND IN THE JEWISH LANGUAGE – THERE IS NO “J” – INSTEAD THE “J” IS REPLACED WITH A “Y”.
    
    SO – IF YOU WERE TO SPELL JERUSALEM – IT WOULD BE YERUSALEM ……… AND SO ON ……….JESUS WOULD BE YESUS.
    
    AND SO ON AND SO ON ……….
    
    http://www.shepherdschapel.com
    
    mary e. waltimyer said this on March 14, 2014 at 2:55 pm | Reply
- Well said! AMEN (so be it) 🙂
  
  lyndsey said this on March 21, 2010 at 9:59 pm | Reply
Marianne said this on March 6, 2010 at 3:46 am | Reply
Marianne said this on March 6, 2010 at 3:47 am | Reply
Marianne said this on March 6, 2010 at 3:48 am | Reply
This is something different …

Abigail said this on March 16, 2010 at 3:54 am | Reply
Hi all….

I have discovered that I was born on very special evening when Solar departed the Sun… and discovered that Solar has returned this year on my birthday… Small wonder why I always loved space and stars out there.. I can see details of them yet unable to explain unless I paint or draw.
So. Solar has indeed returned and it will become intense and explosive… And I kept getting funny feeling as if I keep returning to Winter… What does Winter and Solar got to do ? I had to ask what it means in those winter and solar missing dots…
Thank you all…

Tamera said this on March 16, 2010 at 8:42 am | Reply
- Tamera,
  I’ve been an amateur astronomer for 55 years so maybe I can help you here. First, when is your birthday? And what do you mean by “solar departing the Sun?” Solar means “of the sun” so the phrase makes no sense to me so please clarify. And what do you mean by “returning to Winter?” Did I miss and earlier blog you are referring to?
  Let me know and I will see what I can come up with.
  
  James Giordano said this on March 16, 2010 at 9:54 am | Reply
Hi, James… I was born on March 4, 1972 at 8 30 pm. And I am not too sure.. all I know of Solar that related to sun which I agree with you there.. except not sure of solar position. I seem to react to solar, esclipse , and storms more than anything else.. Almost like mirroring their swing positions or rather moods goes with storm..
Okay, I will try to clarify a bit better.. I have seen in vision often shown of solar that seem dance around the unvierse and different kind of moon I never seen before…It looks rather tan more than white… They kept dancing and flaring.. but what makes me nervous is the way they flares so big.. almost like if a bomb went off. And I also kept seeing the winter because of the smell in air and snow in plain… So I cannot connect those dots… That’s why I asked… 🙂

Tamera said this on March 16, 2010 at 5:01 pm | Reply
Oh.. bad me.. I forgot to explain on solar departing… It left as if it deceases its activity… and it returns as in increasing its activity.. I hope that makes sense to you…

Tamera said this on March 16, 2010 at 5:02 pm | Reply
- Tamera,
  Looks like there is a bit of a language difference here but I will try my best. It sounds like you are referring to solar storms and the 11.2 year sunspot cycle. These giant explosions on the sun can throw out all sorts of waves and particles that can affect communication systems, satellites and to a smaller extent lifeforms on the planet.
  These storms peak every 11 years or so and they reached a peak in 1957, 1970, 1979, 1990, 2001 and will peak again around 2012. Your birth year was in-between peaks and this year is a quiet but increasing one.
  So while the birthdays are not particularly relevant, your nervous system may be sensitive to the radiation thus causing the dreams. But the content of those dreams are another thing entirely. The sun can’t be causing you to dream about the sun, that comes from your subconscious. Since psychology is not my area of expertise, I can’t help you figure out what the dreams might mean, if anything.
  But if they are caused by solar radiation, you can expect them to increase in the coming years, so time will tell eventually.
  Good luck.
  
  James Giordano said this on March 17, 2010 at 5:47 am | Reply
Marianne said this on March 21, 2010 at 12:48 am | Reply
- Wow, this guy is either a hoaxter or just a complete idiot.
  Just start the video and pause it after 2 seconds. This will show the original, unmanipulated image. In this image, the circle is pale and ghostly. (Don’t be confused by the little green dot reflecting something in his room, probably from his camcorder).
  In this image the circle shows it’s true nature – simple lens flare. Even though most modern lenses are well coated to prevent internal reflections, a very bright light can still bounce around the layers of glass and produce this “glare” on the film or sensor. A tip-off is its location with relation to the original light source. Flare always occurs diagonally across the center of the lens axis, so if the sun is in the lower right, the flare will appear towards the upper left. Often, especially with cheap lenses you will see a long trail of distorted reflections starting at the source and stretching across the picture, always crossing the center line.
  The reflection seen here fits the bill. Also notice the ghosting all around the sun itself. You can’t even see the sun itself. Its all one big flare circle. This shows that the lens is not perfect quality and is capable of producing large amounts of flare. The exposure also has a lot to do with the amount of flare in the final photo and this photo is a bunch overexposed.
  All the rest is manipulation in the iPhoto program (Macs rule) and I’m sure we are familiar enough with CGI special effects not to believe what the program generates thru software.
  As for the conspiracy theory he suggests, if there really was an object there, and that large too, it couldn’t have disappeared the second his camera was done shooting it. And surely millions of other people would have noticed it and news cameras would have been turned on it immediately. So who else took a similar photo? Where did the object go? If it were Nibiru. and heading for Earth as may propose, why isn’t it even more visible now? Help, help! The earth is about to be struck by lens flare!
  Come on folks, we are all too smart to fall for this story. Its good for a laugh is all. Don’t give it another thought.
  
  James Giordano said this on March 21, 2010 at 5:02 am | Reply
  - http://spaceweather.com/
    
    Abigail said this on March 21, 2010 at 5:49 am | Reply
  - Sorry James, but I know what I saw personally, with no lens cover, video etc…it was the strangest thing and would like to have an intelligent explanation from NASA as to what is really going on….see my post below.
    
    lyndsey said this on March 21, 2010 at 9:54 pm | Reply
Abigail said this on March 21, 2010 at 3:05 pm | Reply
- I do not see anything at all……
  
  Marianne said this on March 21, 2010 at 3:44 pm | Reply
  - OK, but if you are right, where is it now and why are you the only person to have seen it? Not one professional photographer, no news reporters, no scientists – nobody. Only you, it seems.
    I can send you a photo with 2 moons in the sky and swear they were both there when I took the photo, but the photo would be as false as my claim.
    I have been an astronomer/photographer since I was 5 years old and I know what is possible and what is not.
    I suggest you submit your video to NASA or the National Science Foundation or even the National Geographic channel and see what they say. I’m sure if you are right, there are any number of TV producers out there who would pay big bucks for your footage and put it on TV.
    When they do I’ll pay a little more attention.
    
    James Giordano said this on March 22, 2010 at 5:26 am | Reply
It’s okay Marianne … They did tell us March 11/2010

Abigail said this on March 21, 2010 at 5:45 pm | Reply
- This guy is another idiot I’m sorry to say. I read the article he refers to and here is a short excerpt…
  “My surveys have always looked for objects closer and thus moving faster,” Brown said to Astrobiology Magazine. “I would have easily overlooked something so distant and slow moving as Nemesis.”
  So, this object, which by the way has not yet been discovered, is super slow and extremely far away. I you do the math, even it were in a near-earth orbit, it would take thousands of years to reach the earth. And the odds that it would cross the earth’s orbit just when the earth is at that point are miniscule,
  And nowhere did the author even hint at the possibility that the orbit of such an object, if it exists, would ever come as close to the sun as the earth. More than likely it has lurked at the fringes of our solar system since the dawn of time and will remain there forever, perhaps colliding with an occasional other object and maybe sending some pieces in a new orbit that might cross the earth’s path – a few thousand years from now of course.
  Yet this guy calls this proof that we will all soon be killed by this mystery object.
  This is tabloid journalism at it’s worst. Next he will have people selling all their possessions and joining some sort of cult – probably run by him.
  Please folks, don’t buy into this crap.
  
  James Giordano said this on March 22, 2010 at 5:44 am | Reply
- STUDY THE TRUE WORD FO GOD WITH PASTOR ARNOLD MURRAY AT http://www.shepherdschapel.com
  
  mary e. waltimyer said this on March 14, 2014 at 2:50 pm | Reply
And here is Space. com’s page …
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/nemesis-comets-earth-am-100311.html

Abigail said this on March 21, 2010 at 5:46 pm | Reply
Be watchful at sunrise.
This is a bad video so it was not altered.

Abigail said this on March 21, 2010 at 5:53 pm | Reply
- This video is just as crappy as the one(s) above. Strange how the “object” has jumped over to the other side of the sun. And where is the news footage? Why did it only appear in this guys’ camera. Why are these images always so poor quality?
  And why don’t these objects show up before sunrise? They only seem to become visible after the sun is glaring into the camera lens.
  In this case the reflection appears bright, like the sun itself. So is the object a nearby sun? Is our sun actually a double-star?
  Give us all a break. Get rid of this Crap and buy a better camera and a neutral density filter – at least 8x.
  
  James Giordano said this on March 22, 2010 at 5:59 am | Reply
March 12/10

Abigail said this on March 21, 2010 at 6:03 pm | Reply
- abigail
  
  I watched for over 4 out of the 6 minutes. I only saw one sun.
  
  The rest are clouds, and sunlight on the clouds.
  
  Marianne said this on March 21, 2010 at 6:29 pm | Reply
  - ok. It really does not matter.
    Something of that nature can not hide.
    Even here where I live I see it and do see something at dusk.
    Soon there will not be any who will not see it.
    And then what can we do about it?
    There is coming a cataclysm of great magnitude.
    
    Abigail said this on March 21, 2010 at 6:50 pm | Reply
  - You’re right Marianne. Flare from lens coatings (reddish) and wholesale reflections (white circle) is all there is. I don’t know how anyone can believe there are actually two suns in our solar system but they can’t both be seen except thru crappy cameras.
    Even Copernicus would have to laugh.
    
    James Giordano said this on March 22, 2010 at 6:05 am | Reply
Do you keep seeing 7?
I gave warning to others but others would not listen
It deceives many and many fall victim
Many false prophets
Just have faith and follow your heart
I am tired and weak and so are many
Please do not oppress or judge others, because we are all in a struggle
No one is chosen, because we are all born equal
The appearance of good can be deceiving

http://www.bible.ca/ef/expository-genesis-18-1-33.htm

Jim said this on March 25, 2010 at 5:31 am | Reply
- True. We need to improve ourselves spiritually, and look for Jesus in the sky, instead of natural things. The natural things will do what they are supposed to do.
  
  Marianne said this on March 25, 2010 at 12:22 pm | Reply
Abigail said this on March 26, 2010 at 3:40 am | Reply
- I find it odd that this artifact showed up on a single frame on the original video. That means it was only there for less than 1/30th second. If it were truly an object and not just a digital processing glitch it should have been visible for a while. Try to find the original source tape from a reliable source. It probably doesn’t show anything much. This still image could easily have been photoshopped as well. This is not proof of anything. Its just more trash tactics to scare people and to get their crap on the internet.
  
  James Giordano said this on March 26, 2010 at 10:20 am | Reply
Abigail said this on April 4, 2010 at 2:20 pm | Reply
- Hey look, more Crap!
  I’ve been studying astronomy since 1955 and I’ve seen many similar photos of the sun taken with helioscopes since the 1920’s and they all show similar solar outgassings and prominences etc. They are not new.
  The two phenomenon are not even similar. The NASA photo is only blue due a filter. Even the space and stars behind the sun are blue. There is no “black hole” at the other end sucking in the energy.
  And they are short – only about 1 solar diameter long. The Norway photos show an event so big that if it were actually as far away as the sun would probably extend out to the orbit of Venus.
  And once again there is the claim that NASA edited the photos to keep the truth from us. This guy should work for NASA since he seems to be way smarter than anyone else there. If they didn’t want us to know something they wouldn’t even release the photos in the first place.
  It is far more likely that these idiots are doing the editing of the photos. Instead of buying Photoshop they ought to invest in a decent telescope and try taking their own un-retouched photos.
  I hope when they all retire to their safe underground bunkers that they will no longer have access to the Internet and will finally leave us sane folks alone.
  
  James Giordano said this on April 7, 2010 at 8:23 am | Reply
Abigail said this on April 4, 2010 at 2:21 pm | Reply
- The idea that this even was out in space, near the sun is nonsense and is easily disproved. If it actually took place 8 light minutes away (almost 100 million miles) everyone on earth would have seen the same view and from one entire side of the planet.
  However it was only seen in and around Norway, and when you look at several videos shot from different locations you see the event from different angles. In fact the event can be triangulated from these videos and placed at a particular point on the earth. And it has been: Norway, not outer space.
  Either this guy knows nothing of science and has scared himself into a frenzy or is one more huckster trying to scare everyone else. Don’t buy into it.
  
  James Giordano said this on April 7, 2010 at 7:58 am | Reply
Abigail said this on April 4, 2010 at 2:28 pm | Reply
- Wow, looks like the Russians have been testing missiles for a lot longer than anyone ever thought. Who knew?
  Fear the Russians, not the aliens.
  
  James Giordano said this on April 7, 2010 at 8:01 am | Reply
Hope you have time to view the moon tonight …

Abigail said this on April 19, 2010 at 1:47 pm | Reply
- This is an overexposed photo of the waxing crescent moon setting behind some pine trees. The overexposure causes a halo or glow around the bright lunar orb. Looks like there may have been a few hazy clouds nearby too. I just took a similar photo last month off my front porch. I even got my neighbor walking her dog in the shot. I’ve been taking pictures of the moon since I was 6 years old and I’ve got thousands in my collection. This is just one more crappy moon photo. It was apparently shot with a “normal” lens – neither wide-angle nor telephoto – then blown up after being downloaded to the computer.
  As for the special effects, he used “reverse image” to make a negative of the original, then applied a filter called “bas relief” to get the 3-D effect.
  I usually use grain (noise) reduction and Gaussian blur filters to improve the image quality then use a burn tool to reduce the overexposed halo.
  If he had used a 500mm telephoto and an ISO of around 800 an exposure of 1/30-1/90th of a second would have produced a nicely exposed image maybe even good enough to show some lunar features like maria and craters.
  Now that would be a photo worth looking at!
  But I tell you what, I will take out my Orion telescope tonight with a high-power eyepiece (6mm) and see if the spaceship is still parked out there, and get back to you.
  But haven’t we all seen a halo around the moon before? The most shocking photos we’ve ever seen? Really?
  Give me a break.
  
  James Giordano said this on April 19, 2010 at 3:05 pm | Reply
James you will enjoy this one …
And you can even see it at spaceweather dot com

Abigail said this on April 22, 2010 at 12:38 am | Reply
- I hope you are fascinated by science of NASA … because this too is NASA …
  Watch the following video …
  
  Abigail said this on April 22, 2010 at 5:33 am | Reply
- Hi Abigail.
  I saw this solar prominence on the news. It took place over several hours so this video is just a time-lapse speeded-up version repeated over and over many times.
  These prominences are nothing new. I have a photo of an even larger one taken in the 1950’s. They are magnetic phenomenon related to sunspots, which are increasing lately.
  Glad to see you are enjoying real science and videos without imaginary flying saucers in them.
  
  James Giordano said this on May 4, 2010 at 7:02 am | Reply
Abigail said this on April 22, 2010 at 5:33 am | Reply
This thing I have asked you to keep your eyes on … well
we now have a clearer picture of it …
and guess what … it appears to have moons.
And guessing by the speed of its approach it will not be long now!!
See it for yourself.
http://stereo-ssc.nascom.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/images

Abigail said this on April 23, 2010 at 2:18 am | Reply
- I didn’t see anything Abigail….what is it that we are looking for on the site? do you have the name of it so as to search it once there?
  
  lyndsey said this on April 23, 2010 at 3:53 am | Reply
  - resolution – 1024 x 1024
    telescope – Ahead COR2
    Date – 20100422 / 20100422
    display – images
    click search.
    I am sorry I thought everyone knew.
    
    Abigail said this on April 23, 2010 at 4:05 am | Reply
    - thank you Abigail? Is that a comet or asteroid heading for the Sun? assuming it was the Sun I was looking at…I am getting in at the tail end of this blog…sorry 🙂
      
      lyndsey said this on April 23, 2010 at 4:53 am | Reply
      - TROUBLE … that’s the name of this thing.
        I’ve been trying my hardest to warn you guys …
        but was only met with ridicule.
        
        Abigail said this on April 23, 2010 at 5:11 am | Reply
      - Just to make myself clear.
        Look at its size.
        Not a comet. Not an asteroid. Bigger than earth.
        BIG TROUBLE!!
        Maybe the size of neptune or bigger still!
        
        Abigail said this on April 23, 2010 at 5:31 am | Reply
- The items you are referring to a indeed big. They are the two inner planets – Mercury and Venus. You can go back into the photo archives and see them over and over since the telescopes were first deployed. NASA tells us what they are, they obviously know where the planets are all the time. These objects are exactly where NASA expects then to be.
  So why do you believe they are alien spacecraft with hostile intentions? Because some kid named :WarriorKinging” says so? What makes him so smart? What are his credentials? He has a PC with a video editing program. So what.
  I know for a fact he is manipulating the video in order to make long time spans seem like a few seconds, and he doesn’t mention that fact. He is trying to fool us. He is a liar and a false prophet.
  He prophesies that space aliens are going to take over and rule the earth.
  Do you believe that? I though that Jesus was going to do that. Are these beings more powerful than God? Will they defeat him and force us humans into slavery?
  Is that what you are trying to warn us about?
  If so I’m afraid you are on the wrong web site dear.
  
  James Giordano said this on May 4, 2010 at 7:20 am | Reply
“Volpo said Israel is waiting breathlessly for the coming of the messiah and the rebuilding of the temple.

“The Arabs and President Obama know that the Temple will be built on the Temple Mount,” he said. “Instead of the temporary buildings that are there today.”
http://www.jerusalem-religions.net/spip.php?article1117

lyndsey said this on April 23, 2010 at 3:48 am | Reply
Thanks Marianne,
For those who have a hard time with Nasa’s site … this fine person has made the images available in a short video.
It depicts the pace and direction of the object TROUBLE in the last 24 hours.

abigail said this on April 23, 2010 at 1:17 pm | Reply
- Venus, again.
  
  James Giordano said this on May 4, 2010 at 7:24 am | Reply
The Lord calls this event ‘The Vertical Sun’.

abigail said this on April 25, 2010 at 4:45 am | Reply
- Venus, again. And what the heck is a “Vertical Sun?” All flash and no substance.
  
  James Giordano said this on May 4, 2010 at 7:27 am | Reply
  - are you sure James….LOL
    
    Lyndsey said this on July 23, 2010 at 10:21 pm | Reply
Hi.
I found your Web Site by Google
And I wish you the best you can get,
the peace of God through Jesus Christ.

Welcome to visit my Site.
Allan Svensson, Sweden
http://www.algonet.se/~allan-sv/INDEX.HTM

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world
for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
Matt. 24:14.

Has this been fulfilled? Both yes and no. By radio, TV,
books and magazines, E-mails and Websites on the
Internet, it is possible to reach out above the whole world.
We can say that God’s gospel has been spread out above
the whole world. The problem is that those who are
preaching, and those who are writing in books and
magazines and Websites on the Internet, they have an
insufficient knowledge of God’s word. They have not
learnt the first fundamentals of the gospel of God.

Those who ought to be teachers, yet need to get teaching.
Hebr. 5:12. This is the state of most Christians today. They
are not able to preach or teach about the Assembly of God,
or about the baptism by the Holy Spirit. They are lacking
of this knowledge. They believe that the Assembly of God
is a Pentecostal church. Please, consider what this expression
“the Assembly of God” in the reality implies. The Assembly
of God must be the same as the Greek word “ecclesia”, and
the Body of Christ. 1 Cor. 12:12-31.

Then it is easy to understand that this has nothing to do
with the Pentecostal Movement. Pentecostal churches have
existed about 100 years, but the Assembly of God has existed
ever since Jesus baptized his first disciples by the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit gave them the new life in Christ so that they
became born anew. Then the Assembly of God was born.
Since then, the Assembly of God has lived here on the earth
generation after generation.

The truth of the Assembly of God has never been preached
in the churches. Therefore, God’s people are totally
unprepared for Jesus’ coming. It is very urgent that all
God’s people understand the truth of the Assembly of God.

Nowhere in the Bible can, we find any hint of that the
Assembly of God is any church system, or that the church
buildings are temples of God, neither that the Assembly of
God is any organized movement. A living body cannot
become an organization, and an organization cannot become
a living body. Therefore, the Assembly of God cannot become
an organization. Nowhere in the Bible can, we read that they
organized a local assembly.

In the reality, the word “church” does not occur in the Bible.
I have five bible translations in Swedish. Nowhere in these
Bibles we can find the word “church” (kyrka). All churches
and free churches are religious black buildings, not founded
on God’s word.

God is the Love
But God’s love does not hinder us to study God’s word
http://www.algonet.se/~allan-sv/LOVE.HTM

Where is Jesus’ church?
Where is the church that Jesus built?
http://www.algonet.se/~allan-sv/PREPARE.HTM#Where

Why did the Pentecostal Revival take an end?
http://www.algonet.se/~allan-sv/CRISIS.HTM

The truth of the baptism by the Holy Spirit and the new birth
http://www.algonet.se/~allan-sv/CRISIS.HTM#baptism

In the free churches the world around
there are thousands of preachers
and bible teachers, but none can explain
what the Assembly of God is
http://www.algonet.se/~allan-sv/EXPLAIN.HTM#thousands

The condition of the Assembly of God
is now much worse than in the assemblies
in Ephesus, Sardis and Laodicea
http://www.algonet.se/~allan-sv/SARDIS.HTM#condition

Allan Svensson said this on June 26, 2010 at 12:02 pm | Reply
Hi all,

I have studied the events of the Day of the Lord for many years now and I can tell you based on my study of the Bible directed by the leading of the Holy Spirit, my strong sense is that we are now in the 7-year Tribution Period. This period started with the elections of 2008 which will lead us to the ‘mid-point’ of the 7 year period in the Fall of 2012.

The mid-point is extremely important as it is a turning point of our world society from very bad to much worse (however, Jesus’ followers will be protected during this time – read Psalm 91 as just one of many examples).

The last 3.5 years – the Great Tribulation(from Fall 2012 to the Fall of 2015) – of this period (as foretold by Jesus as well as by the prophets Isaiah and Daniel) will be a cataclysmic fury of unparalled traumatic events for the earth and human-kind – culminating in the return of Jesus in 2015 to gather his elect on the Last Day.

I agree – let’s not talk “church” but rather use the more fitting term of “elect” as this is what Jesus refers to as his true followers. There is nothing wrong with churches per se but Jesus was opposed to any form of formal worship or structure that has the potential to lead people away from truth (that’s why the Pharisees – the ‘religious elite’ – hated him so much).

The truth of God comes from within us, not without. The church can be used as a guidepost or a calalyst if one needs it but there is no need for dependence upon it in order to find the truth of God and Jesus. Jesus said “You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free” – John 8:32

Back to our times – Jesus himself said of the Great Tribulation period – (which culminates on the Last Day (Day of the Lord) – Matthew 24:21-27 – “For then shall be great tribution, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, nor ever shall be, And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh saved; but for the elect’s sake, those days shall be shortened…..”

And yes, this will coincide with many spectacular and highly unusual events in the skies! Lots more to come.

Thanks for your time, Mary Anne

Mary Anne said this on July 23, 2010 at 5:24 pm | Reply
- hi Mary Anne
  
  I agree with you. This is how I think at this time. But I have to wait and see if I am right. Everything seems to point to the next 5 years. It is like watching something now that cannot be stopped.
  
  I really pray that unsaved loved ones come to a saving knowledge of Jesus before it is too late.
  
  Marianne said this on July 23, 2010 at 5:55 pm | Reply
- HI Mary Anne,
  ” I can tell you based on my study of the Bible directed by the leading of the Holy Spirit, my strong sense is that we are now in the 7-year Tribution Period. This period started with the elections of 2008 which will lead us to the ‘mid-point’ of the 7 year period in the Fall of 2012. ”
  
  Marianne KNOWS how excited I am right now to read your post! Can I get a witness people! YES and Mary Anne, your the witness!
  
  The night of Obama’s election, the HS said “it has begun”….then I found out about the solar/lunar eclipses in 2014/2015 which are occuring on the Jewish Holy Day of Rosh Hashanah..also called Feast of TRUMPETS.
  http://www.triumphpro.com/blood-red-lunar-eclipses-and-solar-eclipses.htm
  
  http://www.zimbio.com/Total+Lunar+Eclipse/articles/92/SOLAR+LUNAR+ECLIPSES+2014+15
  
  So the only thing that makes sense to me is that we would be in the tribulation now with it getting “worse” around 2012 (last half of the tribulation) and then G-Ds wrath on, around or after yom kippur Sept 2015.
  
  Of course, this doesn’t go over well with those who believe in the pre-trib. 😉
  
  Lyndsey said this on July 23, 2010 at 7:37 pm | Reply
  - And…the HS told me to learn the Jewish holidays in Feb 2010 and again in March 2010 (only because I forgot)…Marianne and 2 other across the country, one in California heard a shofar/trumpet on Pentecost of this year.
    
    Lyndsey said this on July 23, 2010 at 7:40 pm | Reply
Hi Marianne,

Glad to hear that! I have studied this for most of my adult life and most seriously have concentrated upon the Day of the Lord study from about 1990.

I, like you, have never had stronger urgings from the Holy Spirit than now that we are living in Tribulation period and are now approaching the mid-point in 2012. I actually have had these strong impressions about where we are in the time-line ever since the transition from Bush to Obama. (Actually, I have been writing a book about this and plan to publish sometime this year).

The great news in all of this is that during the Great Tribulation, while Jesus referred to the day in 2015 as the Last Day, it is the Last Day of this age. He promised a new heaven and a new earth that we will live in after he closes the events of the Last Day according to his word.

It is very exciting to watch the news and the events unfold, isn’t it? The Bible is so right on it give me chills every time I open it up! Jesus said the “Holy Spirit shall teach you all things” and doggone it, he does!

God bless you for creating and maintaining such a blog. The time is NOW for this type of exchange. You are very blessed and will receive many crowns ‘now in this time’ and in heaven, for sure!

Let’s keep in touch as the Bible reveals the truth to us about ourselves and behind our world events! And yes, praying constantly for our loved ones and all peoples to recognize Jesus is key!!

Talk to you all soon!

Mary Anne

Mary Anne said this on July 23, 2010 at 7:14 pm | Reply
- Where is the 7 year peace treaty? Doesn’t the Antichrist have to make a 7 year peace treaty first before the Tribulstion can start?
  
  Leatherneck said this on July 23, 2010 at 7:32 pm | Reply
  - I believe it is just a ‘covenant with many’…..not really sure where that fits, but I know that I know that the HS said “it has begun” in Nov 2008….Mary Anne hit it right on with the same thing the HS has been Urging within me.
    
    http://www.beastwatchnews.com/forecast.htm
    
    Lyndsey said this on July 23, 2010 at 7:48 pm | Reply
  - hi Leatherneck
    
    Well, there is more than one way to look at this.
    
    I am really undecided on this point. I guess i need to be careful when I say “i agree,” that i indicate what I agree about. I can agree about one detail and not be sure about another one.
    
    The bible does not say the covenant is one of peace, only that it is for “one week.”
    
    Or that it includes Israel.
    
    It might be among a group of enemy nations who have covenanted to destroy Israel. The covenant may be an alliance with many against Israel.
    
    Dan 9:27
    
    And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
    
    If he is confirming a covenant already in existence. What about the Oslo agreement? It just needs to be renewed.
    
    or, what were they doing last year in Oslo? The meeting was secret.
    
    we do not know what kind of covenant it is…it does not say it is for peace, or that Israel gets to participate….
    
    it does not say it is a public agreement. It might be a secret agreement
    
    My sense is that 2008 was not the actual beginning of the tribulation but a moment of “no turning back,” last days up leading up , with the last players getting into place. 2008-1012 is the end of America.
    
    One person said ” it has begun.” To me, 2008 meant ” it is the beginning of the end.” What do these thoughts mean, if true? We have the same sense that this time of change is bad. But does that indicate the tribulation has started?
    
    As i tell others, I am looking for the 4 horses – white, red, black, pale, which has not happened yet, that I can tell…..there is no holy place yet, but they are discussing building one. no holy place, no place for an abomination.
    
    After all, if all nations turn against Israel, America is included, and has so far held out. I keep feeling that maybe 2011 is a better start time.
    
    This is not my only post on this. There is a lot to be considered.
    
    I think something MAY start in the next 5 years……
    
    Marianne said this on July 23, 2010 at 8:03 pm | Reply
    - “Here, I am not sure, since sabbaticals, for the most part, have happened every 7 years throughout Jewish history.”
      
      I thought about “70 sets of 7” in Daniel?
      
      Lyndsey said this on July 23, 2010 at 10:15 pm | Reply
  - STUDY THE TRUE WORD OF GOD WITH PASTOR ARNOLD MURRAY AT http://www.shepherdschapel.com
    
    mary e. waltimyer said this on March 14, 2014 at 2:43 pm | Reply
I could be wrong:

Iran send Hizboallah, Hamas, with Syriian help to attack Israel, or Israel attacks same before destroying Iran’s nuke building plants.

Russia, and Iran etc…, move south, and get destroyed. This sets up Amagennon(sp). It takes time to set up regional wars, and global wars. Supplies have to be moved into place. A false peace…

Five years may see us on the verge of Amagennon(sp).

Over.

Leatherneck said this on July 23, 2010 at 9:55 pm | Reply
- If 5 years, then wouldn’t that line up with Sept 2015…we have Rosh Hashanah (feast of trumpets) and POSSIBLE rapture and then there are 7 days of “awe” right after this (which could be when armeggedon takes place) and then there is yom kippur (G-Ds’ wrath…maybe)
  
  Lyndsey said this on July 23, 2010 at 10:19 pm | Reply
- hi
  
  another thing….jacob’s trouble is only 3 1/2 years. The 7 year covenant may only last 3 1/2 years, even though it was planned for 7…..just like all peace agreements, it does not last, and they quit
  
  To me, something has to happen in America, to make 1/2 the world Jews go back to Israel….they are not in the right location to get terrorized by the antichrist.
  
  then the Gog war should occur, I am thinking……once that is won by Israel, the false peace comes after such a great victory….seems like Muslims and Russia will only agree to a peace with Israel if they have been defeated at war.
  
  I am still thinking this through…some say the gog war is armageddon…some say it only occurs after armageddon.
  
  Marianne said this on July 23, 2010 at 11:40 pm | Reply
  - Agreed, but somehow the Jews need enough time to build a Temple. So, everyone gets defeated except America, and most of Israel which brings a false peace. later, the Kings of the east march through the dry rivers of the Tigres, and Eufraties after three unclean spirits go out to the world to bring all together at Armageddon (sp).
    
    Leatherneck said this on July 24, 2010 at 12:55 am | Reply
I am looking for the obvious:

white horse – false peace,
red horse – war
black horse – famine
pale horse – death pestilence,
martyrdom of the saints.

I have seen local events….but nothing global.

Marianne said this on July 23, 2010 at 11:45 pm | Reply
Hi! IMHO –

My experience is just like the one Lindsay describes with a “knowing” it has begun!

I believe while we must rely on the Bible, the celestrial skies, the world events with recent technological discoveries to provide our foundation on this topic, I firmly believe our final understanding must come from the Holy Spirit (which God has given to us) within us.

I believe the Lord set it up this way deliberately so that we would not rely on our intellects alone to guide us but rather to rely on the leadings of the Holy Spirit to “put it all together” with the information our intellect gives us.

The Bible, while wholly true, is allegorical and parable-driven in nature so that complex concepts can be more easily understood by man. Also, the writers of the Bible were writing based on their perspectives of the early world and associated terms they were familiar with at the time in history that they lived.

When the Bible refers to the “rebuilding of the temple”, from my perspective, that does not necessarily have to translate to a literal, physical interpretation. It can certainly mean that the Jews experience an uplifting religious and spiritual “revival” – a revitalized interest in their heritage and religious practices – which is right happening now. I believe the “rebuilding of the temple” means a re-igniting of the Jewish principles and foundations – particularly since they are getting increasingly attacked by surrounding lands and peoples. These forces are bringing the Jews together (here in American and across the globe) to boldy embrace their Jewish heritage, culture and religion as never before.

So, I would say the “rebuilding of the “temple” could very well be in progress right now with Benjamin Netanyahu leading the charge – to create a much stronger Jewish presence and mind-set.

Given this, I would say right now, they are experiencing a “false peace”. Their neighboring foes are quiet for the moment, but I believe poised to strike destructively at any time.

In terms of a peace pact made to last for 7 years, did not the U.S. resurrect a failed “pact” with Israel recently (through Obama) promising anew to lead them to successful peace and security with the Palestanians? To my simple understanding, the U.S. has now made a pact with Israel.

I don’t think we will be able to look to a very formal and obvious accord and be able to say – “Oh, there it is, the peace pact described in the Bible!” I think most of these things are “veiled” (by design) and require the discernment of the spirit to reveal their true meaning.

Jesus said no one knows (not even Him) of the exact day or hour of the end of this age – only his Father knows. However, he did say we can most certainly discern the “season” by the signs all around us.

I believe the reference to the horses is very omnious and will be obvious when it occurs (and again this doesn’t refer to actual “horses” but the horses represent what will happen as Marianne has said), but I believe they refer to the things that will happen at time of the Great Tribulation. So I don’t expect to see these particular horrific events come to fruition until then.

Thanks for listening!

Mary Anne said this on July 24, 2010 at 1:50 pm | Reply
- Hey Mary Anne,
  
  “These forces are bringing the Jews together (here in American and across the globe) to boldy embrace their Jewish heritage, culture and religion as never before.
  
  So, I would say the “rebuilding of the “temple” could very well be in progress right now with Benjamin Netanyahu leading the charge – to create a much stronger Jewish presence and mind-set. ”
  
  When I read the above, I “understood” that the rebuilding of the temple referred to by Jesus is succinctly the “rebuilding of the Jews/their nation”? bringing them all together back to their homeland where G-D intended for them to be? Is that right? I know that another group is making plans for a physical temple, but alledgedly this is a masonic group doing this and perhaps in their carnal understanding they are looking at the “physical 3rd temple” whereas, Jesus is pointing us towards a “spiritual 3rd temple” in that we are to worship Him “in SPIRIT and in TRUTH”! There really isn’t a “need” for a 3rd physical temple because of there being no more need for sacrifice-Jesus was the FINAL sacrifice; We are to worship Him now in Spirit and Truth not thru the formalities done thru a physcial temple. And perhaps when Jesus returns to reign from Jerusalem, He will have his own ideas as to whether or not a 3rd physical temple is needed….and if the temple is built by the Masons, well, I believe Jesus would want it torned down because of this.
  
  And finally, as I posted on other pages, this past February and right before Passover of this year, the HS told me twice that I needed to learn the Jewish Holidays. I was raised southern baptist so this of course was unusual to say the least but I did listen the second time when He was more pressing about it and WOW-so much of everything pretty much came into place when understanding these 7 holidays/holy days.
  
  And this past year I have drawn per se towards the Jewish culture. Last Christmas I felt the “need” to do Hanukah instead of Christmas but I didn’t do it because, well, I had no idea how and of course I thought my dad would think I was “crazy”…lol He passed in February and 2 weeks afterwards is when the HS spoke and said “you need to learn the Jewish HOlidays”.
  
  And, 21 years ago, before I received the baptism in the HS, I was told by a lady at church that G-D told her to tell me that I was to read the book of Ruth and that I was to be compared to Ruth…she didn’t understand it either but thought I should know…I am adding this here to see what your understanding, perhaps “witness” of this would be….I think I may have figured it out as it was an “a ha” moment” but thought since I am getting some witnesses here I would just try it and see…:)
  
  so glad your here Mary Anne! 🙂
  
  lyndsey said this on July 24, 2010 at 2:33 pm | Reply
- Hey Mary Anne,
  
  Re:Jesus said no one knows (not even Him) of the exact day or hour of the end of this age – only his Father knows. However, he did say we can most certainly discern the “season” by the signs all around us.
  
  By learning the Jewish Holidays and by reading Marianne’s blog site I “somehow” came across Mark Biltz…did you know….I was so excited when I learned of this…did you know that the “no one knows the day or the hour” is actually referring to the Jewish Holy Day-Rosah Hashanah!. It is the ONLY jewish holy day where “no one knows the day or hour” that it begins.!
  
  http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=63076
  
  lyndsey said this on July 27, 2010 at 3:48 pm | Reply
- “In terms of a peace pact made to last for 7 years, did not the U.S. resurrect a failed “pact” with Israel recently (through Obama) promising anew to lead them to successful peace and security with the Palestanians? To my simple understanding, the U.S. has now made a pact with Israel. ”
  
  Is there a way we can get a copy of this pact-to read it online or something…
  
  lyndsey said this on July 27, 2010 at 3:53 pm | Reply
  - Just look up the Oslo agreement. That is what is being renewed.
    
    Marianne said this on July 27, 2010 at 8:54 pm | Reply
http://www.facebook.com/pages/IsraelNationalNews/102510354100?v=app_2373072738#!/topic.php?uid=102510354100&topic=12690

lyndsey said this on July 24, 2010 at 2:52 pm | Reply
Hi Lyndsey!

In reference to ‘I “understood” that the rebuilding of the temple referred to by Jesus is succinctly the “rebuilding of the Jews/their nation”? bringing them all together back to their homeland where G-D intended for them to be?’… I would say that I believe the Bible tells us that in the end times the Jews will be “gathered” together in solidarity, of one mind – whether that means in Israel or whevever they are across the globe. All true followers of Jesus are his flock, whether they be Jew or non-Jew. (He said “others I must also bring” – referring to the non-Jew).

So with that, non-Jews are “grafted” into his flock so it wouldn’t be practical (or necessary) for all believers to gather in Israel at his coming. Jesus can reach us wherever we are and we will see him whereever we are. Your urgings to learn the Jewish calendar, however, is a very good thing as you are recoginzing that the non-Jew is grafted into the Jewish flock.

I believe all eyes will be on Israel, though, in the end times because it is the “glorious land” of God. The reference to the rebuilding of the temple, to me, refers to to a figurative temple of God filled in SPIRIT with his believers in strong solidarity across the globe looking for the Messiah.

I don’t think we should look to all things Jesus told us to be purely literal in nature – they all are real for sure – but in most cases, they are figurative representions of literal states of mind of humankind and how we interacts with the power of God.

For instance, in Daniel 12:11, we are told that “from the time the daily sacrifice is taken away and the abomination of desolation set up, there shall be 1,290 days (3.5 years)”. So, if we examine this figurative representation from a literal point of view (which is how the H.S. instructs me to view the Bible), the daily sacrifice means that the Jewish solidairty and renewed interest in their beliefs and religious practices – “from the going forth of the commandment to restore and build Jerusalem unto Messiah” (Den. 9:25) – will be abolished (taken away) suddenly by the influence of Anti-Christ (who is the abomination of desolation) at the mid-point of tribulation. This statement doesn’t doesn’t want us to focus on an actual temple being built(which may or man not happen) but rather a rebuilding of “Jerusalem unto Messiah”.

I believe, however, there will be an actual person who is installed by the U.S. (and perhaps a coalition of U.S. and other countries) whose charge it is to ‘get Israel under control’ as Israel will be seen increasingly by its foes and the world alike as being the cause of the problems in the Mid East. Coincidentally, as this is happening to Israel and all believers, all the world’s morality and beliefs in God (as we see starting to happen now) deteriorates to shocking levels!

Regarding the Book of Ruth, the woman who compared you to Ruth sees in you as having pure, unconditional love with total reliance on and trust in God – as this was what Ruth was all about. I also see your total reliance on the Holy Spirit, which God has given freely to us!

Talk to you soon!

Mary Anne

Mary Anne said this on July 27, 2010 at 11:35 am | Reply
- thank you Mary Anne.
  
  I came across this a few min ago…thought you and Marianne would find it of interest. When It comes to dates and math..I am lost..:)
  http://www.fulfilledprophecy.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=41826
  
  lyndsey said this on July 27, 2010 at 3:50 pm | Reply
Hi Lyndsey and all,

In reference to us not knowing the day or hour of the end, Jesus said in Mark: 24:36 “No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father”.

I would have to part ways re: the Rosh Hashanah interpretation of this statement – Jesus is clearly referring to the last day of this age when he made that statement. The Jews of Jesus day followed their holidays strictly and it is doubtful they needed his further instruction on them. He didn’t come to clarify such information, he came to tell of his Godhood and his coming to save his elect.

While I’m sure it’s true that no one knows the hour or day of Rosh Hashanah from year to year (just as other holidays’ dates vary from year to year), this particular Bible verse is not referring to Rosh Hashanah clarification.

Jesus was specifically answering his disciples when they queried him about the signs of his coming – “Tell us when these things shall be (referring to Jesus’ description of Tribution and the Last Day)? And what shall be the sign of thy coming, and the end of the age?”. Read Matthew 24: 3-51 for the detailed explanation.

Jesus was a good Jew, no doubt, but we need to keep in mind that he came to tell us that while religious structure and symbolism (regardless of the religion), provide good foundatons for our daily lives and encouraging us to reach the full knowledge of God, we have to be careful that these frameworks and structures do not eclipse the real message and presence of God – which we are instructed to find by worshiping “in spirit and truth”.

Also, thanks very much for the above link. I haven’t had the opportunity to read yet, but I’ll do so shortly!

Thanks much again.

Mary Anne said this on July 28, 2010 at 1:53 pm | Reply
Hi,

Sorry, I think I ‘fat fingered’ the Bible verse that I was referring to that speaks to what Jesus said re: his exact day of his coming and the specific hour.

It is in Matthew 24:3 that describes the disciples’ question to him about the his coming and in Matthew 24:36-51 that describes Jesus’ answer to them that the Father only knows the specific day and hour of his coming.

In Matthew 24:32-35, however, Jesus describes that we shall certainly know the “season” of the end (just as we now have the ability to discern natural seasons of the year), but we will not be able to discern the exact day and hour of the end.

This particular piece of information is hidden from us and only the Father knows it. So, while we will be able to discern the year and season of the year, the day and hour has not be disclosed to us.

Mary Anne said this on July 28, 2010 at 3:22 pm | Reply
- Hey Mary Anne,
  
  I understand what your saying but ASK the HS to reveal this to you as He did me! It was as if He was saying “aha, BINGO, you got it”….it totally makes sense and I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever. When Jesus was asked by the disciples as to when he was coming back, Jesus’ response was “no man knows the day or the hour”…FEAST OF TRUMPETS, the disciples would have known exactly what he was talking about….and then regarding “Jesus’ answer to them that the Father only knows the specific day and hour of his coming. ..” This is referencing the Jewish Wedding….in the Jewish custom, the groom’s FATHER is the only one who knows the day and hour of the wedding…this is incredible…the groom “goes away and PREPARES a place/a home for his new bride” and it is the father who chooses this bride and it is the father who determines that the groom is READY to retrieve/go back to get his bride! sound familiar….
  
  Beyond any doubt, the day that no man knows the day or hour it begins is Rosh Hashanah -Feast of trumpets…
  
  Remember, the HS told me to learn the Jewish Holidays, twice! Once I did, and I am still learning, but once I did, EVERYTHING started falling into place and making sense.
  
  *Jesus fulfilled the spring feasts, now we are waiting for Him to return to fulfill the FALL FEASTS…which are:
  
  Rosh Hashanah/Feast of Trumpets….1 Corithinans 15:52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet
  
  and Revelations 11:15
  The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will reign for ever and ever.”
  
  2) Feasts of Atonement
  3) Feasts of Tabernacle
  
  And….the eclipses are from Passover to Sukkot, 2 years in a row!!!
  
  lyndsey said this on July 28, 2010 at 3:41 pm | Reply
Hi!

I think we are all on the same page. No doubt, the Lord has been very active in providing his believers with signs of his impending coming.

I believe Jesus is coming in a Fall season and more specifically, the fall of 2015 looks promising – where his return will be heralded by a “trump and a shout”, as you mention.

It is very possible that his coming will occur on Rosh Hashanah – I’m not disputing that at all – but the Rosh Hashanah period occurs over many days and all I’m saying is that Jesus emphasized we would not be able to pinpoint the exact day.

It’s just my personal opinion that we don’t want to get so wrapped up in celestial ‘signs’ (although they are extremely important guideposts once we have our feet planted firmly in faith) that we miss the full import of Jesus’ message about preparing ourselves with the necessary faith to be one of his elect at his coming. Let’s face it, there are also those believers who exist in the world today who may not be ‘up on’ the astronomical signs of the end times, but will be saved nonetheless because of their pure belief…

Mary Anne said this on July 28, 2010 at 5:00 pm | Reply
Wasnt sure where to post this..so I put in the Search above “2013 Famine” and it brought me here…the video I am posting has a man by the name of Larry Randolph…G-D showed him headlines of the future..one of particular is 2013 Famine.

Thought we might add this to our Puzzle and see where that puts us..:)
http://www.sidroth.org/site/News2?abbr=tv_&page=NewsArticle&id=6739&security=1041&news_iv_ctrl=1191

Lyndsey said this on August 7, 2010 at 10:41 pm | Reply
Hi Lyndsey and all, for some reason I wasn’t able to open the video that speaks to the 2013 Famine, but without seeing it, I can certainly agree and believe that we are on course for a major Famine. 2013 sounds very reasonable. This thought is based upon what’s going on in the world right now.

We shouldn’t fear a famine, however, as the Lord said in
Psalm 37: 19 “They shall not be ashamed (speaking of believers) in the evil time; in the days of famine they shall be satisfied”. The Psalmist goes on to say in 37:26: “I have been young and am now old yet I have not seen the righteous forsaken; nor his seed begging bread”.

Also, I did open one of the other videos on this link where Larry Randoph is speaking of a “visitation” from Jesus. He doesn’t refer to it as a dream, an impression or a vision but an actual visitation.

While I agree this man may have had some truths revealed to him (but be cautioned, the Devil knows perfectly well what will happen in the End Times and he works through people too), I personally don’t believe anyone will have a visitation from Jesus himself until the Last Day when Jesus said he would appear – because he told us so.

In fact, before he died, he promised to send the Holy Spirit (which is his spirit) IN HIS PLACE to guide us along our journey until he comes.

Larry Randolph’s description of an actual visitation from Jesus (where he saw red smoke) brings these Bible verses to mind where Jesus expressly warned against believing in these so-called visitations:

In Matthew 24:24-27 Jesus said – “For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show you great signs and wonders, insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore, if they shall say unto you Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth; behold he is in the secret chambers, go no forth; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east and shineth even unto the west, so shall the coming of the Son of Man be. For wherever the carcass be, there will be eagles gathered together”.

To me, he is a strict warning against those who claim to see and visit with Jesus because Jesus told us precisely when we would see him again. He said seeing him before his time will simply not happen.

We certainly can “dream” of Jesus (which is probably what Larry Randolph experienced) because we believe in him and think alot about him but to say you have had an actual visitation from him, I believe, is directly against Jesus’ words.

How I interpret the last Bible verse here – “Wherever the carcass is, there will eagles be gathered together” means that many people at the end will gather and be strongly attracted to this ‘dead’ (false) doctrine.

That being said, as believers, we should be on the alert to glean God’s messages from anywhere as long as we stick like glue to the word of God as presented in the Bible to interpret those messages.

Thanks very much for sharing that link. Be careful out there! 🙂

Mary Anne said this on August 10, 2010 at 4:08 pm | Reply
My 2016 Theory
http://wakeupbabylon.blogspot.com/2010/10/my-2016-theory.html

Drew Simmons said this on November 3, 2010 at 12:47 am | Reply
- hi Drew,
  
  need definitions here. I read your post.
  
  Rev 6 says that by the time the 6th seal is broke, when the sun turns black and the moon turns red, 5 seals have already been opened. This means that tribulation has already been going on for awhile. Then after the 6th seal, it says the sky tolls back and the time of “HIS WRATH HAS COME.” TO me, this means one period of trouble is over, and now WRATH begins.
  
  WRATH is not TRIBULATION. It is worse.
  
  The way I define it, the “tribulation” is only 1260 days, or 3 1/2 years, according to both Daniel and Revelation.
  
  The time of wrath follows that, after the saints are removed. There is a “last week” but there is not proof that the whole week is the tribulation.
  
  Taking the dates you give, if the 6th seal is at the time of the lunar and solar eclipses, in spring of 2015, then the time of wrath begins then, which means the 3 1/2 years is over.
  
  3 1/2 years before spring of 2015 is the fall of 2011.
  
  so…..
  
  fall of 2011…… 3 1/2 years begin
  
  spring of 2015 …..3 1/2 years end and
  
  time of wrath begins.
  
  maybe the wrath also takes 3 1/2 years?
  
  Marianne said this on November 3, 2010 at 1:28 am | Reply
I think some folks are putting way too much into these upcoming eclipses. Eclipses occur on a regular cycle, and repeating eclipses are quite normal. Since the Jewish calendar is Lunar-based, if an eclipse happens on one feast day then it will automatically repeat on another feast day and it will repeat the next year – not on the same Gregorian calendar dates, but on the same Jewish calendar days. God is not forcing the eclipses to fit these dates. When you do the math, they are not that surprising.
As for the solar eclipses, unlike lunar eclipses which are visible everywhere on earth, solar eclipses are only visible to a very few observers along a narrow shadow-line less than 90 miles wide running in a strip over one side of the earth. This strip will not cross over Jerusalem in any case. Even with lunar eclipses that last 3 hours, almost half the world will not be able to see them as they will be on the other side of the planet at the time.
Therefore these are not the signs mentioned in Revelation as the darkening of the sun and moon. This darkening will be due to a worldwide event such as a super-volcano that will darken the atmosphere with toxic ash and dust which will cause any other number of problems mentioned in the seals.
In any case, they are coming way too soon. If they represent the middle or end of the tribulation period, then we are currently in the last week of Daniel. Where is the antichrist? Where is the New World Order? Where are the first five seals? And the war of Gog? What about the final kingdom(s) of Revelation 17?
And for those who think that the city of Babylon will be rebuilt along with the Jewish temple, where are they? And that new Islamic empire that will behead all of the saints?
Where are all of these things? Will they all happen in a couple of weekends?
Unfortunately, if you believe in this time frame then most of these other beliefs must be abandoned.
Sorry but I’m afraid not much will happen on these six eclipse days. They are spread out over a year so trying to link a prophetic event with any one of them would be a crap shoot. This is all just a lot of pie-in-the-sky wishful thinking hoping our Lord will soon return. As I said, the Book of Revelation is not referring to a simple series of common events. When the sixth seal is opened the whole world will know it – it will be horrendous. As will the first five which we have not seen yet. When they occur, we will KNOW what they are. God will make sure of that. There will be no doubt, no discussion, no blogging. Everyone will know – they will be events of biblical proportions.
Put down your bibles a minute and pick up a nice book on astronomy and enjoy these eclipses for what they are – wonderful natural events. Let’s not make them out to more than they really are or else they might get some sort of God complex and decide they can’t handle the pressure and decide to not even happen, and then where will we be?
😉

James Giordano said this on November 3, 2010 at 9:22 am | Reply
- James
  
  Good points.
  
  I think if there is an eclipse during the 6th seal, it is just coincidental. There will be more going on.
  
  I think we still have a few years of grace, but not much. I am waiting for the first 5 seals as well. I am not sure when the antichrist shows up during these, but the bible says we will see him revealed first, before we leave this earth.
  
  2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
  
  so, to me, the antichrist and the abomination are better signs to watch for.
  
  But, actually, instead of all that, which we cannot change, we should be watching for signs of failure within ourselves. That we can correct, if we have a humble spirit.
  
  Marianne said this on November 3, 2010 at 12:19 pm | Reply
  - If you are looking for a sign that the tribulation has begun I don’t think you will find it looking for the Antichrist or the last week of Daniel with the abomination of desolation. The 70th week of Daniel refers to the ministry of Jesus and it is completed. There will not be a person as the Antichrist. The beast is a kingdom (just ask Daniel) and it will be the 8th and final king(dom) of Revelation. (The eighth is of the seventh and will last only a short time). This will be the revived Holy Roman Empire. It will be a political pact between the Europen Union and the Vatican. The Europen Union will have a leader but he will not be the Antichrist. There will only be the false prophet. This will be a person – the leader of the Vatican – the pope. He is the one who claims to be Jesus. He does not have to proclaim it with his voice – his title, Vicar of the Son of God, proclaims him to be christs’ replacement and that title, in latin, adds up to 666. He will not go to the temple in Jerusalem and set up the abomination – that is fulfilled prophesy. He will exercise his authority over the new Holy Roman Empire and declare that all citizens are to attend mass every Sunday in response to a growing Muslim infiltration into Europe. Business owners will be required to close shop on Sunday and open on Saturday or else they will not receive a business license. This “blue law” is already in effect in France). In other words no one can buy or sell without bowing to the authority of the false prophet. Forced Sunday worship will be the mark of his authority. Better said it will be the mark (of authority) of the new Holy Roman Empire (the beast).
    Of course, almost no-one will realize anything is up. It will all seem like business as usual for the Vatican – nothing out of the ordinary. So how will we know the tribulation has begun? Well, certainly when the second seal (WW3) is opened, that will be a clue. But the best sign will be the appearance of the two witnesses at the temple in Jerusalem. They will preach for the last 3-1/2 years then be killed just before Christ returns. That will be a certain sign.
    Also we can look for the war of Gog which should precede the tribulation. It might even be the trigger for WW3 – the 2nd seal/horse. By the time the 2 witnesses appear, the whole world will know that the time of trouble has begun. There will be signs of biblical proportions and the fact that the war of Gog is ended by fire and ice from heaven will leave no doubt in anyone’s mind that there is a God at work.
    But where things will go wrong for most Christians is that they will be looking for an Antichrist figure that will take over a New World Order and place a chip in everyone’s hand or forehead, and that will simply not happen. In fact, half of them will be expecting to be raptured away, and they will refuse to believe the tribulation has begun simply because they are still there. And without the other things happening they will be certain that they are safe until Christ sneaks back to snatch them away.
    I’m afraid that many many true believers will live through the tribulation denying it has started. They will not understand the Mark of the Beast and will curse God when they receive the last 7 plagues. This is all part of the prophecy, so it will happen. I pray that when it does that anyone who has read this will remember these words and realize what is happening.
    Of course if I’m wrong, I’ll see you all at the rapture party in heaven.
    
    James Giordano said this on February 26, 2011 at 4:55 pm | Reply
- I agree,James. What is shown clearly of these quadruple eclipses they are all three three connected to Israel’s events, not for christians. 1. Liberation of Jerusalem (also prophecied by Rabbi Judah Ben Samuel in 1217: Jerusalem will be under enemy 400 years, then no-man’s land 1917-1967 and under Jewish control 1967-2017). 2. Foundation of Israel. and 3. Discovery of America which was to become the most powerful nation in the world. In Genesis this was promised to Joseph’s sons and in their time Ephraim/Manasse moved there and established the USA. The ten lost tribes are not lost and live predominantly in the western Christian world. You remenber also sticks of Ephraim and Judah The western world is fighgting against Judah until God combines the sticks.
  Thus my understanding is that 2014-2015 will deal predominantly with something very special happening in Israel. In two previous cases combined Arab forces tried to destroy Israel. Maybe this is the case also this time After winning the war Israel would then create the situation: living in peace as described in Hezekiel before the war of Gog.
  The year 2012 is very important also in some other prophecies.
  Babylon was distroyed in 539 BC. If you add to this Daniel’s numbers 1260 days and 1290 days in years you end up in the year 2012, according to God’s 360 day calendar. Extra 30 days are added leap month which belongs to every calendar. Details
  http://www.bible-codes.org/2012-predictions-true-doubts.htm
  Also this 360 days calendar is explained there.
  Some twenty years ago I was reading about Sidkia, the last King, and then I was revealed that the 15 years given to Sidkia will also be given at the end by God’s mercy to let people repent. How that 15 years is to be used at the end times I don’t know. Given address tells also details of God’s calendar.
  In the light of previous I am very suspicious of any date determined for Revelation seals and Rapture.
  As David Wilkerson said, This is no depression but we live under the wrath of God. We are in the end times.
  
  Seppo said this on November 18, 2010 at 7:22 am | Reply
- “I think some folks are putting way too much into these upcoming eclipses. Eclipses occur on a regular cycle, and repeating eclipses are quite normal.”
  
  You amaze me James…..the mathematical odds of these eclipses occuring on JEWISH FEAST DAYS (ALL OF THEN I MIGHT ADD) and 2 years in a row, are astronomical!
  
  AND the mathematical odds of these eclipses having already occured on Jewish Holy Days in 1948 AND 1967 are also astronomical!
  
  Who are you honestly kidding?
  
  Yes, eclipses happen all the time and are naturally occuring events, blah blah blah….HOWEVER, when they occur on JEWISH FEAST DAYS….tell me James, what are the odds?
  
  lyndsey said this on February 26, 2011 at 5:31 pm | Reply
- Many of the Trumpet and bowl jugments Jim will occur in the Bible lands. Majority of the Islamic activity occurs in the Middle East and Europe. Study your Bible, jim. It is all there in the Tanakh. Where is the Antichrist. Where is the New World Order.
  
  This has happened since the beginning of the month of Tishrei (Sept-Oct) 2015.
  1) Double Solar Eclipse on the Day of Trumpet connected to an event in Israel. (Aviv Moon network.com prophesies/Endtimes Forum)
  2) On the Day of Atonement, Obama made a pact agreement with Satan and became the Antichrist. Seal 1: Conquering political and or religious force begins to take over the world. (Revelation 6:1,2) 2009 Obama is sitting down in a group meeting and there is a bow and crown present in the picture. To the Islamics, he was showing himself to be their Mahdi in 2015. (Renee M Beforeitsnews.com). Could it be the Islamics in Islam countries be the political and religious force?
  3) WWIII broke out in the Middle East with Russia as the head. Seal 2: World War III begins. (Rev 6: 3,4) ISIS, Middle East, 2015
  Joel 2 31 prophecy Abib 1/Passover Solar eclipse in March/April 2015 means judgement for the globe and lunar eclipse means judgement for Israel. Also Solar /Luner eclipse in September.
  4) Red Blood Moon over Israel and now there is Islamic War aginst Israel so it could be either Psalm 83 War (which I suspect) or the coming into of the Ezekiel 38-39 War with Nuclear Weapons (Zech 14:20. Time will tell so keep you eyes glued to events in Israel.
  5) Popes visit to usher in the One World Order and one world religion (Agenda 21 on Steroids). I have all the documents on this. They called this Agenda 2030 but it is now called Agenda Universal. Sept. 23-28, 2015.
  6) Ten global Economic coutries stocks are collapsing which I believe is Seal 3 and the end of this is one World currency on October 20th at the end of the 7th and 49th Shemitah cycle. Seal 3: World wide economic collapse, famine. (Rev 6:5,6) September 24, 2015 Year of the Shemitah; One world currency, Oct 20th, 2015. Fed’s are planning for a set date for this to happen. Be ready with 3 year supply of food and water.
  7) Imam’s in American are telling Islamics to kill Americans wherever they see them. Seal 5: Worldwide persecution of Jews and Christians. (Rev 6: 9-11) 2015/2016, ISIS killings coming to America. Luke 9:9. An article titled said Genocide has already begun in America.
  8) UN International Police State formed. Sept 29th, 2015. 13 major cities joined. USA: Cities who are participating include: New York City, Atlanta, Denver, Minneapolis, Paris, London, Montreal, Beirut, Oslo and thirteen others.
  beforeitsnews.com/new-world-order/2015/10/alert-u-s-cities-join-new-world-order-to-form-a-global-police-force-targeting-homegrown-extremism-patriots-trouble-brewing-5288.html
  beforeitsnews.com/opinion-conservative/2015/10/obama-administration-and-un-announce-global-police-force-to-fight-extremism-in-us-cities-3060190.html. Welcome to Islamic Sharia Law for the USA. (I Thess 5:3)
  Things to look forward to before the end of December 31st.
  1) October to December (more likely December) USA Martial Law 3 in full effect.
  2) Russia and Chinese going with Nuclear War against America (Nineveh)
  Saudi Arabia (end times Babylon, (Babylon the Great(JA)) destroyed in a nuclear holocaust. (Rev 17:16-18:24) Late 2015, 2016. Some call this ” fire” in dreams. Some teach that America is Babylon the Great. I think this article will convince you that it may be Saudi Arabia.
  shoebat.com/2014/12/03/mysterious-black-horse-seen-flying-mecca-babylon-great-come/
  
  City of Babylon is Mecca, Jim.
  
  jardalkal said this on October 8, 2015 at 1:35 pm | Reply
Scheduled visits? UFOs – Satan’s army in the sky.

Look at times 2:44 to 3:52. The UFOs turn red in the sky. If a whole group of them gathered at night in front of the moon, the moon would appear “red.” Also, the falling UFOs look like fiery hail. A new interpretation to think about.

Marianne said this on February 26, 2011 at 1:06 pm | Reply
- Marianne
  Not to change the topic here, Revalation 8:12 and following, The fourth trumpet. A thought occurred to me regarding this: an increase in the rotation speed of the earth would cause a third of the day and a third of the night to disappear. as well as a third of the moon.?
  Assuming this is the case, opening of the bottomless pit (5th Trumpet/first Woe) would be volcanic/ seismic activity as a result of the increased rotation.
  6th Trumpet equals locusts from the abyss?
  Also, going back in time, sixth seal sounds to me like a near miss of acomet or other large celestial body which could be the cause of the fourth trumpet? Therefore first three trumpets could be debris from this passing celestial body?
  Just a thought since we are talking about moons turning red etc.
  
  dru said this on February 26, 2011 at 5:53 pm | Reply
  - hi dru
    
    Interesting. So where on the timeline do you think we are?
    
    Marianne said this on February 26, 2011 at 7:23 pm | Reply
    - Marianne
      The first seal is catholocism and its governmental system which it supported, namely, Monarchy. Note revalation 6:2. Bow with no arrows equals papacy, which had authority but no military power except through its puppet monarchs, hence the crown, conquering and to conquer equals crusades/ conquistadors in new world. White is the color of Papacy.
      Second seal equals secularism, and its ultimate governmental form of communism. Obviously red is the color of communism. How many people have been killed by communism/ fascism in the past and how many wars have been started in their name. Great sword= Sickle, think of the grim reaper. The idea of secularism has its roots in the renaissance, as a reaction to catholocism, and it arguably started long before that.
      Third seal, black horse equals protestantism and its primary governmental form of capitalism. The scales should be the giveaway for this. Black robes are also the color associated with protestantism (think black robe brigade in U.S. revolution. Think also of the protestant work ethic as written about by the sociologist Webber.
      Fourth seal, green horse equals Islam and its governmental form of theocracy. It is the religion that venerates death and murder (Jihad and martydom). its name is death, but the only thing that follows this death is not heaven but Hades. It kills with the sword, and most areas of famine are located in its jurisdiction, and wild beasts, or metaphorically crazed or raging people promote this religion. This government is now coming into being with the current riot throughout the middle east. Note they are getting rid of their monarchies etc.
      
      That is why I believe we are in the time of the fourth seal. Note also that bible says Green horse has authority over a fourth of the earth, I don’t think this means they will kill all those people.
      
      These are also all four possible systems of human governance. They each have authority over roughly afourth of the world. I believe that these four make up “Babylon the Great” that will be destroyed by the wrath of God. The sixth seal marks the start of the “great tribulation” ,and the seventh trumpet the Second coming of Christ. which occurs during the seventh seal.
      
      dru said this on February 26, 2011 at 8:28 pm | Reply
fouth seal

dru said this on February 26, 2011 at 7:33 pm | Reply
marianne
A point that I would like to add to this is that there are Chistians amongst all of these kingdoms. And also that these seals do not necesarily place a value as to which system is right or wrong. the point is that they will all be replaced in the millenial reign of Christ. If someone is a catholic or a protestant, this should be a thing of rejoicing for these are all systems based on the sinfulness of man, the new millenial system will be based on the redemtion of man through the blood of Christ.

dru said this on February 26, 2011 at 9:41 pm | Reply
- hi dru
  
  If you are taking the “governance” approach, then what do you say the 5th seal is?
  
  Marianne said this on February 26, 2011 at 10:51 pm | Reply
The fifth seal is a time of persecution of Christians, and their martyrdom at the hands of the four horsemen.

dru said this on February 27, 2011 at 3:29 am | Reply
- 4???
  
  so the catholic church, communism, capitalism and Islam will all together kill the Christians?
  
  Marianne said this on February 27, 2011 at 4:01 am | Reply
  - They already are or have been think of the inquisition, the persecutions of the anababtists, the witch trials. Also persecution is not by definition killing, though this is part of it. Anyone who has questioned the authority of a pastor or a priest or pope is kicked out of the church, or at best kicked out of the inner circle. the problem is that as long as the church has the authority structures of the world it will always be putting someone between the Christians and Jesus. The Bible says to shepherd my flock. A shepherd directs the sheep to their ultimate goal, which is Christ, not manipulate them into allegiance to some institution or beauracracy which is led by some fallen leader who puts him or herself on a pedestal only maintain that power. I have seen evidence of this persecution first hand and what it can do to the members of a church, leading to division and denominalization in the churches. what is lost in this is the fact that the authority of the church rests in God alone. As for capitalism it “kills” by weighing your value on the scales. if you are worthless by societies standards then you are worthless to the church. But Jesus said those who are first shall be last, and those who are last shall be first (notation not available at this time). Think also in the protestant churches of the emphasis on works rather than Grace. this is particularly evident in the calvinist and lutherin denominations.
    
    dru said this on February 27, 2011 at 3:15 pm | Reply
  - Marianne
    If you get a chance, read my last post on Pale grisled fourth horse to Pattie farm. This will shed some light on how i view the timeline of revalation. I would be curious to hear your comments.
    
    dru said this on February 28, 2011 at 3:33 pm | Reply
Read the Olivet discourse. In it Jesus describes all 7 seals – in order. In Revelation John is simply seeing a vision of the Olivet prophecy. There is not much in Revelation that is not found elsewhere in the bible.
Check it out and discuss…

James Giordano said this on February 27, 2011 at 9:20 am | Reply
- Matthew 24:9-14 describes the fifth seal to a tee. ” many will fall away and betray one another and hate one another. and many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased the love of many will grow cold. but the one who endures to the end will be saved.”
  Yes James I do see the paralles to th seven seals of revalation.
  
  Ask yourself this: Do you find love growing cold in this society where everything is growing more and more cutthroat and backstabbing in order to advance? Or in the church? Etc.
  
  dru said this on February 27, 2011 at 3:30 pm | Reply
- James
  i also read your other post above, regarding the sabbath. I take it that you are a seventh day adventist.
  My question for you is what happens to those who do not keep the sabbath as seventh day? if they are condemned to wrath for this is this then not a work or condition on the Grace of Jesus? In other words is this not saying that the grace of God and the blood of Jesus are insufficient to save us?
  I ask this with no animosity towards the Adventists, but rather because I see this as one thing that hinders me from leaning towards being an adventist.
  I understand the arguement for worshipping on the seventh day, but I do not think it is the mark of the beast.
  
  dru said this on February 27, 2011 at 10:28 pm | Reply
Well Dru, if you understand that the mark of the beast is Sunday worship, then you Kinda have to become a sabbath keeper, although you don’t have to join the 7th day Adventist church. You simply have to honor the sabbath and keep it holy, just as God asked His people to do.
You wouldn’t violate the first commandment would you – and put a different god before Him? You can’t become a cold-blooded murderer and expect to avoid the lake of fire? At least not after you’ve become born again.
How about idol worship – are yo in for a little of that? Yes, there are some commandments that we can all agree are pretty much deal-breakers as far a God is concerned. So you must ask yourself, if God is going to judge people on something, don’t you think it will be something He really cares about? Would He care if you bought your food and necessities using a barcode or chip? Or would He be upset that His people were breaking a sacred commandment? Especially the only one that begins with the word “Remember?” You think maybe He knew we would all forget that one? Maybe that was His clue.
And don’t forget that the angel told Daniel about the man of sin that he would think to change laws and times. He meant God’s laws and times of course – His commandments. The catholic church removed the second commandment and changed the time of the fourth from Saturday to Sunday. The only one concerning time.
These are powerful clues as to the mark of the beast but most people ignore them. They are so used to breaking the 4th commandment they assume it is probably OK to do so.
Think of it this way – when Jesus returns as the political and spiritual leader of the world, what day will He call the sabbath? Will he change the 4th commandment to Sunday to accomodate all those folks who are so used to the tradition of men? Will He care? Of course He will. Pagan practices like Sunday worship will be eliminated. His bride will not be one bit pagan. Babylon (paganism) will be destroyed before the wedding. The angels rejoice in that.

In case you’re not sure that the mark of the beast is not about keeping God’s commandments, here are some verse:

On the plagues given to those with the mark:
Rev 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
Rev 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.
These are all commandments, right?

And again:
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Hmmm… Commandment keepers are not tormented!

And what about the true church?
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
The true church will be just a remnant (a carpet roll remnant is usually 5-10%) – a very tiny church indeed, and they will keep the commandments. We can assume that means all of them.

Again – very convincing clues that most everyone ignores. They proclaim “we are all under grace now – the laws of God don’t matter! I wouldn’t count on that. There are many dozens of scriptures that reveal that grace without works is useless. So which should we believe? Well, you could take your chances and go ahead and ignore the commandments… are you feeling lucky, (punk?) (See the movie “Dirty Harry“ for that scripture).
If God had a .44 magnum staring you in the face, would you ignore His laws? Well the 7 last plagues will be far worse. As for me, I’m going to play it safe.
That’s all I’m saying.

James Giordano said this on March 1, 2011 at 11:36 am | Reply
I too will say, better safe then sorry! 🙂

lyndsey said this on March 1, 2011 at 1:18 pm | Reply
- I have the bulletproof shield made of the blood of Jesus, and I alone am unable to live by the commandments, and when you break one you’ve broken them all. I would rather trust in the blood of Jesus than my own works.
  
  dru said this on March 1, 2011 at 7:05 pm | Reply
  - This is true.
    
    However, I do enjoy keeping one of the commandments and that would be the sabbath. Since discovering that it is actually on Friday eve to Sat eve, It feels like a mini vacation to the end of a stressful work week!
    
    And It actually feels more like 2 days compared to the 1 day of Sunday. Jesus was right when he said that the sabbath was made for man and not the other way around 🙂
    
    So even though we have grace…I would so recommend keeping the sabbath, not just to stay out of trouble per se, but to really enjoy what G-d has given us and to honor Him at the same time 🙂
    
    lyndsey said this on March 1, 2011 at 11:20 pm | Reply
    - agreed
      
      dru said this on March 1, 2011 at 11:55 pm | Reply
James
God does not point a gun at us and say repent or else, but i do appreciate the analogy. I believe this is a tactic used by Muslims. I am not disagreeing with you on the sabbath being the seventh day, I even said that in my inquiry.
Glations 5:1 “For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore and do not submit again to the yoke of slavery.”
V2 ” Look: I Paul say to you that, if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you.
V3 I testify again to EVERY MAN who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law.
V4You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the Law; You have fallen away from grace.
V5 For through the SPIRIT by FAITH, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteosness .
V6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything but ONLY FAITH WORKING THROUGH LOVE.”(ESV emphasis added)
Was Paul speaking an untruth here.
James also confirms Pauls notion here in James 1:26. “If anyone thinks he is religious and does not bridle his tongue but deceives his heart, this person’s religion is worthless.
James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it.”
2:12 “So speak and act as those who are to be judged under the LAW OF LIBERTY.
v13 For judgement is without mercy to one who has shown no mercy. MERCY TRIUMPHS over judgement.(ESV)
Then James goes into talking about faith without works is dead.
Does this mean that James and Paul are contradicting one another? In your understanding of the sabbath, as a condition of salvation are you not putting the Law above Grace? God came not to destroy the law, but to fulfill the law. So is Paul wrong or is James wrong? Where is it in your understanding, that mercy comes into play? Where is it that the process of sanctification falls into play? Where is God’s love if he is holding a gun to our face?
Yes I agree that the law stands alone. If we violate one precept we violate them all. I agree that faith without works is dead. But I also believe that the Blood of Jesus covers all our sins, past present and future, he has imputed our sinfullness and replaced it with righteousness. Do we still sin, yes,as I am sure you do, but God only sees the blood of Jesus which is the only propitiation for sin. The fruits of our faith are our works, Even these fruits are the result of the sanctifying work of the spirit in our lives and not of our own accord, for I am nothing without Jesus, And only through his work am made righteous.
Rev 12:17b …On those who keep the commandments of God and HOLD TO THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS.” You emphasize the commandment part, I choose to emphasize the Testimony of Jesus.
Again in revalation 14:12 you emphasize the commandments part, I choose to emphasize The “faith in Jesus” part.
Again I ask you even though you believe in Christ, do you still sin? If you speak a white lie you have broken the whole law including the sabbath. In fact, throughout the sanctification part of growth as Christians, I am be continually be made aware of the sinfulness in me that I was never even knew was sinful. Not because it broke a specific command, but because my heart was not in the right place. Read Luke 11:37-12:12 note especially verse 11:39-41. Thus sanctification is done by God in us and is done from within (heart and motives) It is Not of ouselves.
I am not giving lisence to break the law here, but rather, am saying that outside actions are not by definition a sign of the inward condition. Psalm 139:23-24 says ” search me, O God, and know my HEART! Try me and know my THOUGHTS! see if there any grievous way in me, and LEAD me in the WAY EVERLASTING!”
In summary, God is working on our hearts and our thoughts and our motives, and he will lead us in the way everlasting. Can someone have the wrong motives for keeping the sabbath in the end times. does that mean they are spared from the lake of fire? This is why I do not believe this is the mark of the beast. I also believe that the Christians will be raptured before the mark of the beast is mandated.

dru said this on March 1, 2011 at 6:54 pm | Reply
- Dru, Here is my takeon Jesus and how much He cares about the Sabbath.
  
  Yeshua was conceived in 4 BC at Chanukkah (Festival of Lights and Feast of Dedication) on a Sabbath either on Dec. 15th or the 22nd. Born in the Fall on either Yom Teruah (Day of Trumpet) or on the first Annual Sabbath of Feast of Tabernacles in 3 BCE. Messianics teach Feast of Tabernacles. He was circumcised on the 8th day (A new beginning) on the Second Annual Sabbath. According to Stellarium (free Astronomy program) and Torahcalendar.com, He was born on Yom Kippur in 3 BC (Stellarium -4). He began His ministry in 27 CE and baptized either in January (Michael Rood Chronological Gospels) or Day of Atonement (Biblical Astronomy article). Entered Jerusalem on a donkey in 29 CE (Shemitah year) on Abib 10 (Saturday), Month 1. Died on Passover (not a Sabbath) on Wednesday (4th day and 4th candle called the Christ candle or servant candle of the Menorah (7 candles)) (each candle represents a day and 1000 years). Buried on Thursday (Wednesday night by the time the first three stars came out which starts a new day). Possibly the men came out of the tomb when the stars had appeared and closed the tomb after the stars came out. This Day was the Feast of Unleavened Bread Annual Sabbath. Rose 72 hours later at the beginning of the Feast of First Fruits. Feast of Tabernacles (Sukkot) is the Messianic Kingdom at the Second Coming in 2016 or 2017.
  Yeshua/Jesus will return on the Day of Trumpet 10 days before Armageddon on the Day of Atonement. Marriage of the bride also occurs on the Day of Atonement.
  
  jardalkal said this on October 8, 2015 at 2:11 pm | Reply
  - jar
    
    you said
    
    Marriage of the bride also occurs on the Day of Atonement.
    
    why that day?
    
    Marianne said this on October 8, 2015 at 2:21 pm | Reply
    - Sheepfoldgleanings.com Dayof Atonement. Rev.19:6-8 on the same Day as Armageddoni n that Chapter.
      
      jardalkal said this on October 8, 2015 at 9:43 pm | Reply
james
Read also Romans ch7-8 if you are planning to respond with circumcision being part of the covenent and not the law. Especially romans 8:1-2

dru said this on March 1, 2011 at 7:11 pm | Reply
- Dru, would you like all the scriptures you quote from a Jewish perspective.
  Jardalkal@aol.com or download e-sword and then purchase David L Sterns Jewish NT Commentary.
  About the Sabbath In Exodus it is keep the Sabbath and in Deuteronomy, it is Remember and Keep the Sabbah. By the time of now, mny people especially Christians do not remember the Sabbath and keep it.
  In he Messianic Kingdom, the church will only be open on the Sabbath. As a matter of fact, if you d no how up to Jerusalem at Passover, Pentecost, and Feast of Tabernacles, you will on be eating dirt for the year, nd you will not get rain where you live.
  
  Also up until 300 CE, the early church kept the Sabbath and when the Spanish Crusades came along from Costantine and Roman Cathlcs, all those who did not go to Sunday worship were killed.
  
  jardalkal said this on October 8, 2015 at 2:32 pm | Reply
dru
I’m not so sure that circumcision and dietary laws or even civil laws such as an eye for and eye are going to be a big concern during the tribulation. The ten commandments are carved in stone, a symbol of permanence. I believe that the Ark of the Covenant will soon be recovered from Jeremiah’s grotto beneath the site of the crucifixion. It will be a sign to modern believers that the law is still in effect. The rest of the laws will be sorted out when the millennium begins and Christ is in charge. So maybe if you love barbecued ribs you should get your fill now before you have to give them up – just in case. 🙂

James Giordano said this on March 2, 2011 at 8:38 am | Reply
- James
  Just to throw this one out there, What if legalism and works based faith is the mark of the beast? You will be denying Jesus and saying his blood is insufficient for sin. And those Who at the final judgement say “we prophesied and did wonders in your name,” and Jesus reply, “I knew you not”. and with the wrath of God staring them in their face they will still not repent.
  I say this to get people to think and question and not to mock.
  As for millenial reign, I believe God will restore the original creation model (new creation) Therefor I don’t know if Adam and Eve ate ribs or not: I like nuts and berries too!
  
  dru said this on March 2, 2011 at 12:33 pm | Reply
  - Dru,
    You bring up a good point but let me put it to rest.
    It is impossible to live by works alone. You can not obey God’s laws and at the same time reject Christ’s sacrifice on the cross and still be a Christian. Even pious Jews who follow all the old covenant laws (and many still do) are doomed unless they come to Christ. All their works are in vain without admitting His sacrifice.
    Believing in Christ is what makes us Christians, so being saved by faith is virtually automatic. But the scriptures tell us that we must go beyond faith to show how much we love God. We will all be judged by our works and will receive rewards based on them.
    Don’t you think that God would be more pleased if you believed in His son AND kept His commandments? Do you think we will keep them throughout the millennium? Would you want to tell your savior that you didn’t feel like keeping the law until you were forced into it?
    I think those who ignore the law now and expect to slide thru the tribulation on just faith are going to regret it. Maybe not.
    So I ask again, do you feel lucky?
    🙂
    
    James Giordano said this on March 2, 2011 at 3:10 pm | Reply
    - James
      1. I agree you cannot live by works alone.
      2. on the jewish people, I also agree
      3. even the demons believe in Christ and tremble. Are they Christians?
      4. Is not loving God a work that we do that saves us? This is the sticking point. Yes I agree we should keep his commandments, But there is nothing we can do to earn his Love or his rewards. All our works are corrupt just as all our institutions in this world are corrupt. God on the other hand has freely given to us salvation, His love, and his blood to cover our corruption. We merely have to accept that gift. God then will work in us by his grace to sanctify us. Repentence is the act of us giving contol of our lives to God, So that he can do his WORK in us.
      Note: accepting a gift is not a work we can take credit for, for we know we are not worthy of that Gift. Do we love God for giving us this gift? by all means yes, and we thank him and praise him for it. But does God need OUR love? NO. Does salvation require our love? NO. should we love God? YES.
      5. So to answer your question, “Don’t you think God would be more pleased if you believed his son and kept his commandments.?” the answer is of course yes. But it is through his sanctifying work by grace that we are able to keep the commandments from the inside out. Thus someone who is able to accept the gift of salvation before the rapture, though he has not kept God’s commandments up until that point, will still be covered by the blood of Jesus. Think of the parable of the workers going to work in the field for the master. they all got paid a days wages even though some of them only worked half a day. Are you going to be one of the ones that grumbles because you got paid a days wages for working a full day, or one that rejoices that the others received that same wage by the grace and goodwill of the master.
      I am in agreement with you on the law, and on sabbath, but do not believe this will be the mark of the beast, just as I believe that a slave who is forced to work on the sabbath is not guilty of breaking that law, For I also believe in the mercy of the judge. You can also flip that around and say if I keep the sabbath, but have the wrong reason for doing it, will you still be rewarded for obeying the law?
      
      dru said this on March 2, 2011 at 6:42 pm | Reply
    - P.s. I was enjoying my bacon while I was reading your response.!
      
      dru said this on March 2, 2011 at 7:00 pm | Reply
      - Dru, do you also enjoy doing the rest of the abominations that you do.
        
        Work out your salvation with fear and trembling. As long as you are doing your abominations, you are facing God and HE sees you do it to His face so when the Locust bites you, remember that it is your keeping on sinning and not repenting from your sin that will cause you to go through 5 months of pain in 2016.
        I have learned that believers will be judged for their thoughts, words spoken and written and actions performed but theywill also be judged on keeping God’s laws (the Torah).
        As you quoted above Matthew 5:17, you might want to remember that that is till the end of the messianic Kingdom and we are under God’s Laws until the end of the Heaven and the Earth and you might want to remember that you will not be eating bacon in the Messianic Kingdom for everyone will keep God’s laws in the Messianic KIngdom which are found in the Torah (first five books of the Old Testament).
        So just go ahead and do your abominations and keep telling God that you hate HIs laws to His face. Keep on doing Mithraism (Sunday Worship, Christmas, and Easter) which is an abomination to God anis also Idol Worship. The early church did not do these abominations before God so what gives you liscense to do them if the early Church did not do them.Do you believe also that you are above God’s laws like the Pharisees and Sadducees. If so, you might want to study Colossians 2:8.
        
        Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
        Philosophy. Here the word stands for the heretical Gnostic or pre-Gnostic alternative to the true understanding of who the Messiah is.
        Human tradition here is pagan tradition, because it goes along with the elemental spirits of the world (see Gal_4:3). Contrast it with Jewish tradition (including the Oral Torah; Mat_15:2-6, Mar_7:3-13, Gal_1:14) and with Messianic tradition (Rom_6:17; 1Co_11:2, 1Co_11:23; 2Th_2:15; 2Th_3:6).
        
        Work out your salvation with fear and trembling.
        
        jardalkal said this on October 8, 2015 at 3:14 pm | Reply
- Hey James,
  
  What do you think about Ron Wyatt claiming to have found the Ark and having discovered 20 feet below the crucifixion site of Christ inside Jeremiahs’ grotto? He has since died but his son’s continue to support his claims and that they know where the Ark has been transferred to awaiting the time given by G-d to reveal it. The antiquities authority was also involved as well.
  
  lyndsey said this on March 2, 2011 at 12:45 pm | Reply
  - Sorry but I couldn’t get this video to play, but…
    I have been following Ron’s exploits for quite a while. He also discovered Noah’s Ark. The city of Gomorrah, now just ashes, and the site of the Red Sea crossing, complete with 17th dynasty Egyptian chariot wheels. These among many others. I believe he was guided to find these things. I encourage everyone to read his stories and reports. There is also a different video of him before he died in which he describes how he discovered the ark of the covenant and retrieved blood from the mercy seat which when tested for DNA was found to have only female chromosomes – there was no (human) male donor!
    I believe his sons will soon dig into the chamber he discovered, coming in from the tunnel that the ark and other temple items such as the table of shewbread were originally brought in through – now completely blocked – sealed by Jeremiah himself 2,500 years ago.
    For those who want to learn more about these discoveries go to:
    http://www.wyattmuseum.com
    I find it interesting that all these discoveries have been made in the end times (after the nation of Israel was restored) and all by the same man. This must be part of God’s plan. That is why I believe the ark containing the tablets (and the staff of Aaron) will soon be revealed. Now more than ever it will be important to get people thinking about God, being so close to the final days. Soon everyone will know that God is real and they will have to decide if they want to follow Him and His rules, or not.
    I believe the commandments were carved in stone for a reason and they will be found just before the mark of the beast is put into effect. Where people will kame the connection I don’t know, but I pray that everyonereading this will do so.
    Bless…
    
    James Giordano said this on March 2, 2011 at 1:50 pm | Reply
    - That was an amazing video of Mr wyatt talking about the blood found on the mercy seat. The man reminded me of my father and knowing that his generation didn’t like to cry, I found his testimony genuine if only due to this fact. I watched it several times last year and told family and friends but they all looked at me with great skepticism.
      
      Granted, Wyatt did not present the dna results from the blood work, but it was my understanding that his sons have this info and will present it in due time-hoping they have the results. I couldn’t imagine Mr wyatt getting that far and not remembering to document, document, document! 🙂
      
      lyndsey said this on March 2, 2011 at 2:24 pm | Reply
      - Ron Wyatt talking about Jesus blood sample found on the Mercy seat of the Ark of the Covenant
        
        lyndsey said this on March 2, 2011 at 2:28 pm | Reply
    - james and lyndsey
      
      One big problem I have with Wyatt, even though I tend to believe him, is that he has no lab report to back up his claim that he found the blood of Jesus. Why is this lacking? All labs produce reports.
      
      Marianne said this on March 2, 2011 at 3:22 pm | Reply
      - wonder if we can contact one of his sons to ask about that?
        
        Seeing an interview with a rabbi on you tube, they claim they have the ark of the covenant as of the 80s…this was around the same time that Ron wyatt found the ark with the help of the israeli antiquities authority.
        
        lyndsey said this on March 3, 2011 at 2:11 am | Reply
I have an old web print-out of Ron’s discovery of the Ark written in the late 80’s. It was before DNA testing so all the lab could say was that it was human blood. But the article was full of detailed technical data and even discussed the fact that some other Ark researchers had looked at the reports and tried to refute his data. But I think that the whole matter was intentionally kept out of mainstream news. Maybe he wanted to wait until he could actually bring it out where the world could see it. He tried to photograph it several times but something caused his film to be completely overexposed. Obviously God was not ready to show the world His handiwork, but I believe that time is quickly approaching. We shall see.
I’m not sure if his wife and sons are taking emails but they may have a facebook or twitter page where we could track their progress. I subscribe to their newsletter and get updates a few times a year. You would thing something this monumental might get way more attention from the media, but as I said, they may be intentionally flying under the radar – for now.
It’s like the hundreds of chariot wheels he found in the Red Sea. I’ve seen hour-long documentaries proving they are down there. But do you hear on the news that the parting of the Red Sea has been proven? I haven’t. Guess they think the Egyptians dumped them off a garbage scow or something. Go figure. Same thing with the ash city of Gomorrah – complete with thousands of sulphur balls (brimstone) embedded in the ashes. Sounds convincing to me but I guess not to the mainstream media. Go figure again.
As for me, I believe. It’s time for all of us to believe. Or else.

James Giordano said this on March 3, 2011 at 6:20 am | Reply
- James
  
  I have been in medical science since before 1980. They had the type of DNA testing that Ron Wyatt described in the 1980s. All they had to do is take an electron micrograph of the material and count the chromosomes. Blood typing was also in existence then. As a researcher, and scientist, he should have had documentation of this from the lab. Why he doesn’t i am not sure. If they had refused to give him a report, he would have mentioned that. So where is the report? I would personally like to see why Jesus was AB-, but only had 1/2 the chromosomes.
  
  Marianne said this on March 3, 2011 at 1:31 pm | Reply
  - I think the fact that they were even able to test the blood sample at all is amazing in and of itself being that 2000 year old blood should be dead. This blood was ALIVE and they were able to test it. I am with both of you, in that I do believe Ron Wyatt’s claims if only by “faith” at this point and I also would like to see the lab results if only because of curiousity and of course being able to show it to the world and say “see, I told you so”! lol
    
    lyndsey said this on March 3, 2011 at 2:06 pm | Reply
I’m sure there is a report out there somewhere, after all the blood was tested by a lab and they had to document their findings, but perhaps they are keeping it under wraps for political reasons.
Imagine if they claimed they had proof that Jesus had no earthly father. It would prove to the Jews that their faith is worthless and might send the Muslim world into a rage, perhaps attacking the excavation crew. As it is, the way they have handled it, us Christians can know the significance and everyone else can claim plausible deniability, so they can continue to think that their religion is true.
Personally, I think this is a smart move, but soon all hell will break loose and there will be no doubt about who the real God is, and then the report can be released. It is simply not time yet. Perhaps when the ark is recovered all there things will fall into place.
Look at Noah’s Ark which Ron also found. It has been recognized by the Turkish government to be the real thing yet virtually no one in the U.S. has even heard of it. Same wit the Red Sea crossing. You would think that would be a tourist site by now with locals taking people out to snorkel amongst the chariot wheels. But nothing – yet.
As in the days of Noah, people are going about their everyday lives not realizing what lies ahead. They have a false sense of security that life will always go on as usual. They don’t understand the prophecy and Satan will lead them like sheep into sin without them even knowing it. I think the recovery of the ten commandments will herald the beginning of the tribulation and those that do not heed them will suffer the last plagues.

Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

The question you must answer is; does Satan want you to pay with a chip or would he rather get you to break God’s commandments? He knows the verses above. If you were Satan, which would you choose? Will you be “sealed” when the end comes? Or will you be marked?
You must think like Satan and think like God if you want to figure this out.
Bless you in your search for the truth.

James Giordano said this on March 3, 2011 at 2:46 pm | Reply
Kitti just sent me this in an email..

http://ldolphin.org/wyatt1.html

lyndsey said this on March 3, 2011 at 2:52 pm | Reply
- I found this link interesting but not disturbing. I have a feeling that God may not have wanted the whole world to know about the grotto – yet. I think He is holding back for a time nearer the second coming. Perhaps another 15 years or so.
  Just a guess, but I’m still optimistic. God has plans. Of that I’m certain. We just have to wait and see what they are.
  
  James Giordano said this on March 8, 2011 at 7:18 am | Reply
  - I hope its sooner then 15 years James…geez, have you seen the gas prices?! groceries are almost 50% higher then they were 3 mths ago….those of us who used to live “comfortably” are now feeling most uncomfortable!
    
    lyndsey said this on March 9, 2011 at 2:40 am | Reply
    - Hi Lyndsey,
      I know everyone is hoping Christ will return tomorrow but I’m afraid much more must happen before the end can come.
      Of course everyone has a different scenario in their minds such as the formation of a New World Order and the chipping of 7 billion people etc.
      Then there’s the War of Gog, The battles of Daniel (King of the North, King of the South etc. Then there are the seals including WW3 and its aftermath, the emergence of the antichrist and so on.
      All this takes place on man’s schedule. God is not going to force these things to happen.
      But God has His own schedule. He likes biblical and round numbers it seems. Like 6000 years of man’s reign on earth followed by 1000 years of Christ.’s. He likes to have things work out mathematically. I also believe he schedules events on important anniversaries. The fall df Adam, the flood, the covenant with Abraham etc were probably on the beginning/1000 year anniversaries of the first 6000 years. I believe Jesus’ resurrection came on year 4000, leaving exactly 2000 to go. Also, 2000 years is equal to 40 jubilee times. (Two very biblical numbers). So if Christ died in 31AD we can expect His return in 2031. That’s 23 years from now and it leaves plenty of time for all the final things to happen.
      Besides, you know what they say – You can’t hurry love. Since God IS love, it follows that you can’t hurry God.
      Be patient folks – All in good time.
      
      James Giordano said this on March 9, 2011 at 7:24 am | Reply
      - hi James
        
        remember to use the lunar calendar, not the solar one.
        
        Marianne said this on March 9, 2011 at 11:51 am | Reply
        
        Why lunar calendar? Why not prophetic calendar of 360 days a year having 12 months of 30 days. Like we add today leap days already in ancient Babylon leap months were used. Thus you get 3,5 years is Daniels number of days 1260 and when leap month is added you get 1290 days for 3,5 years.
        
        Seppo said this on March 9, 2011 at 12:53 pm | Reply
        
        360 days a year is the lunar calendar.
        
        Marianne said this on March 9, 2011 at 1:00 pm | Reply
        
        But the Jews also add leap years to their calendar so that spring festivals don’t gradually drift into the summer, fall then winter. I believe God works in actual years in most cases except for prophecy. The prophecy lines in the Great Pyramid are in actual years and the sidereal year is calculated several times and up to 6 decimal places and in many cases it makes more sense to use actual years.
        In any case, time will tell…
        
        James Giordano said this on March 10, 2011 at 8:31 am | Reply
        
        In prophetic cal. of 360days 7 year cycle averages 364.29 days per year and 40 year cycle 365.25 days per year.
        
        Seppo said this on March 10, 2011 at 8:54 am | Reply
      - well…it is my understanding that the year 2008 was the beginning of the final jubilee year (120 jubilees) AND was the beginning of a 7 year sabbatical. The year 2015 will be another sabbatical year…hard to explain it.
        
        So as of 2008, we are in the 120th jubilee year (G-d said His spirit would only stay with us 120 years-interpreted as 120 jubilee years-Genesis 6:3) and as of 2008 we began a 7 year sabbatical with 2015 being a sabbatical year??
        
        Ok, watch this…Mark explains it better..lol
        
        lyndsey said this on March 9, 2011 at 11:19 pm | Reply
        
        http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/513212/jewish/When-is-the-next-Jubilee-year.htm
        
        not sure who came up with that date.
        
        Marianne said this on March 9, 2011 at 11:37 pm | Reply
        
        learned the date from daniels’ timeline
        
        and according to the link, we got another gazillion years to go if the tribes of israel don’t return…that they-the jews- haven’t even been counting the jubilee years and they won’t start counting until ALL jews return to israel?…..so why are you still here? pack your bags and go to israel marianne!! I am ready to go home! 😉
        
        lyndsey said this on March 10, 2011 at 3:11 am | Reply
        
        Maybe not that long. It is claimed that many Jews in Israel are not really Jews but converted to Judaism. One such group are claimed to be Khazars which obviously belong to lost tribes
        http://www.britam.org/KhazarsTenTribes.html
        http://www.britam.org/khazars.html
        
        At the time when the Lord combines the sticks of Judah and Ephraim they will know and we will know. It might be that there are already enough people of the lost tribes in Israel for Jubilees
        
        Seppo said this on March 10, 2011 at 5:08 am | Reply
Why do you believe in Jesus? I know that these are hard times and there is need for hope, but I don’t understand the Christian belief that Jesus is going to decide to quit allowing needless suffering and just come back and everything is going to be perfect as long as you believe. Ok, the Bible says this and the Bible says that, but have we forgotten that the Bible was written by men and edited time and time again by men. Who really knows the true meaning behind the Bible? I am not trying to bash anyones belief, I just am trying to understand. I believe that Jesus was a real person and that he tried to teach people how they should treat others, but I don’t think he is anymore God like than I am.

Shauna said this on March 8, 2011 at 9:11 pm | Reply
- hi Shauna,
  
  I acknowledge your unbelief.
  
  Jesus preached against allowing others to suffer. He made it our responsibility to show charity and mercy, as he did. He set the example, and we are supposed to follow his example. He commanded us to heal the sick and set free those who were bound by various problems.
  
  Unfortunately, most people do what they want in stead of caring for others, so there is still suffering in the world. So it is our fault that there is suffering in the world, not his.
  
  That the bible is nothing but a book written by different men is a false claim. There are hundreds of prophecies that have come true that were written, and there are more coming to pass that were predicted. The bible is a supernatural book. God may have used humans as his scribes, but the content is from God. One obvious example is the prediction by the prophet Micah as to where the Messiah, Jesus would be born – in Bethlehem.
  
  Another good example is the prophecy of Isaiah and Jeremiah about the Jews returning to Israel from all over the world, which occurred in 1948.
  
  These are supernatural predictions, and there is no way “just a human” would know these things.
  
  Another one is the mark of the beast. How would the apostle John know about the Verichip, which is to be inserted in either the forehead or the hand?
  
  Jesus said he was the son of God, and then proved it by rising from the dead. There were 120 witnesses to this. So, Jesus is not your typical human.
  
  We can understand the bible with the help of the holy spirit who has been given to us by God.
  I cannot change your mind, but these are some things to think about.
  
  Marianne said this on March 8, 2011 at 10:10 pm | Reply
- Shauna
  I believe in Jesus and the Bible, because there is no better example of real love than the creator reaching out to redeem his fallen creation by humbling himself and taking the form of a human, and dying the most humiliating death imaginable. He did all this for humanity, who had fallen away from his created order and deserved only death, the just punishment for our grievous sin.
  
  I also believe in the Bible because all my own personal searches for Truth have led me there. Even now, after walking for many years in the faith, I am discovering these Truths as I enter the word of God, through the power of the Holy Spirit. This “comforter” which enters our hearts is how I know Jesus is real, and is a risen savior, not some man from the past.
  
  In other words, I believe in God and Jesus and the Bible accounts, not just because he is a good example to live by, but because there is no other example worthy to live by. Until you understand and experience the love of God, you have never experienced True Love; for “God IS love”.
  
  dru said this on March 9, 2011 at 1:27 am | Reply
- Once, I was told what my kind believes in. Then, I was told to search for the son of G-d who died for human sin. It took awhile, but Jesus came to me. Jesus stated for humans who believe in him to pray to G-d the Father in Christ’s name.
  
  It took three years for me. I suppose, G-d was waiting to see if I truely wanted to find him. I state him, but G-d is not a man, or women.
  
  All other religions, and gods desire your death, or good works to live forever. The G-d of the Bible died for all of us, so we do not have to die for G-d.
  
  Good works will be done by Christians, because they will try to be more like Christ. To live forever with G-d the Father you only have to get to knew Jesus, who lived a perfect life, was murdered, and rose from the dead to sit at the right hand of G-d the Father. The Holy Spirit will be sent to you once you knock at G-d’s door looking for Jesus who healed the sick, the blind, and raised the dead.
  
  Christ’s yoke is light. Do not be afraid. You will never be perfect, but you will become a better person with happyness.
  
  Good luck.
  
  Leatherneck said this on March 9, 2011 at 2:59 am | Reply
- Why Did Jesus have to die?
  
  lyndsey said this on March 10, 2011 at 12:20 pm | Reply
It is interesting how so many of the posts get around eventually to keeping or not keeping the Torah. In most Bibles, this is the last chapter of the last book of the “Old Testament”;

Malachi 4
1For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

2But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

3And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

4Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.

5Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:

6And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

It is obvious this is speaking of the last days. What is Yah telling us about this period of time coming up? Verses 4-6 says a lot. Verse 4 talks about remembering the Torah of Moshe, for “ALL” of Israel. Now look at verse 5; Yah sends Elijah the prophet before the day of YHWH. His purpose (verse 6) is to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children and the heart of the children to the fathers. So, who will be the two witnesses in Revelations and what is their purpose? Does it not say that, “in the mouth of two or more witnesses let a matter be established?” If Yahsuha came to do away with the Law (Moses) and the prophets (Elijah) why was He seen with them just before His crucifixion? You might say, to show that He had fulfilled the Law and the Prpphets. This is pretty common in Christian Theology. That is a totally wrong interpretation for the word fulfilled, but won’t get into that now. But the fact that the Wintesses to the Law and the Prophets shows up again at the end of time says a lot. I ask again, what is the purpose of all this? Is it not to re-establish in His people Yisreal, the Torah and the Prophets, which both spoke of and established for Yisrael, their Messiah. How fitting for the triumphant return of Yashua to Jerusalem. Just in case you are thinking, well this is just for the Jews, verse 6 answers that; the turning of the hearts of the fathers to the children and the hearts of the children to the fathers. This verse is not just meant for a nice homily on Sunday morning about getting your relationship with your family straightened out. While that is great, this means much more than that. The fathers are the Patriarchs; Avraham, Isaac, and Jacob. In these men, Yah birthed Yisrael. So who are the children? Does not Proberbs say that foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child? They are bascially unlearned in the things of Yah and in need of instruction. Rules or laws, if you will. The believeing Jews already cling to the Law (Moses) and the patriarchs (the fathers). The children are those who have not been instructed in the ways of Moses and Elijah. Kind of sounds like the church. This is the restoration of Yisreal, the land and the people. It is what Yom Kippur is all about. When Yah sees us (what is called the church) He sees Yisrael. He sees us no differently than He sees believeing Jews. Believer’s in the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob are all part of the commonwealth of Yisrael. Not by replacement, but as brothers. It is not coincidence that these are, at least for the most part, the last words from the OT Prophets. You either deal with these things now or wait until all hell is literally breaking loose. Just as John the Baptist made straight the way for Yashua regarding Passover (persoanl redemtption), so Moses and Elijah will make straight the way for Yashua regarding Yom Kippur (the restoration of the all things, the land of Yisrael and His people Yisrael)!!!!!!

Al said this on March 9, 2011 at 9:47 pm | Reply
- Hi Al,
  
  I agree with 99% of your post. I think it will be Enoch, and Elijah. These are the only two men that did not die, but were taken to be with G-d.
  
  I could be wrong, and it would not bother me if it was Moses.
  
  Leatherneck said this on March 9, 2011 at 9:54 pm | Reply
  - who were the 2 people with Jesus at the end? It would be fitting if it were them…where do I find that info?
    
    lyndsey said this on March 9, 2011 at 11:25 pm | Reply
    - Luke 9:30
      
      lyndsey said this on March 9, 2011 at 11:29 pm | Reply
- I agree with your post as well, although I at times try to point out the phariseeism (I don’t know if that is a word?) on the part of some believers. This only hinders the spread of the Gospel. I am sick and tired of making excuses for the church that would rather impose its will on people rather than having the people do the will of God. God deals with our sinful natures from the inside out through his sanctifying work. It is by his grace that we are able to overcome sin, Therefore it is only God who gets the glory for perfecting us, not man. It keeps us humble when we submit to his authority, for he knows what’s best for us.
  This is not a lisence to sin, but it does give christians the duty to confront those that would glorify themselves. Isaiah 42:8 says “I am the Lord; that is my name; my glory I give to no other…” When some in the church put themselves on a pedestal and glorify themselves and their works, I must speak up, for they are not submitting to God. And by putting a standard of behavior on their followers, they are forcing a morality on people rather than letting God work in their lives.
  
  dru said this on March 10, 2011 at 12:19 am | Reply
  - Hi Dru,
    
    I am not sure exactly what you are saying. You seem to agree with what was wote but find fault for the reason I wrote it. Is that accurate?
    
    Al said this on March 10, 2011 at 9:09 pm | Reply
- Hi Al,
  
  I’m sorry, but my interpretation for those verses in Malachi 4, are completely different.
  
  To Paraphrase;
  
  Verse (1), The Lord God speaks, about a day in the future (granted, end days), where all who do wickedly will be punished
  .
  Verse (2), The Lord God speaks, but if you fear and revere Me with all of your heart, the brightness of blessings will follow.
  
  Verse (3) The Lord God speaks, and in those end days, you will tread over, (or rise above) those who are wicked.
  
  Verse (4) The lord God speaks, to remember the Law of Moses simply because at the time that Malachi wrote and spoke these words Moshe’s Law was still in effect. Yeshua hadn’t been born, neither had He died for us, so there was no other alternative available yet.
  
  Verse (5) Question? Are you suggesting here that Elijah, (perhaps he has already been here, or will be one of the two witness) will not testify of Christ?
  
  Verse (6) I believe that this is just referring to when what the truth that is preached by Elijah, will be fully understood as the fathers and children are both of one accord, and agree in understanding.
  
  I will repost the following to express my beliefs for those that believe it necessary still follow the Torah.
  
  The climax of the revelation that was given at Sinai, was the commandment to construct the Mishkan, (or “Tabernacle”.) This relates directly to the redemption secured by the blood of the lamb in Egypt which led directly to the revelation of laws of the altar given at Sinai. Almost 50% of the Book of Exodus is focused of the Mishkan, and the Book concludes with the Shekhinah Glory of God, being revealed at Sinai and filling the Holy of Holies. (Exodus 40:34,35.)
  
  The Book of Leviticus then links the previous paragraph of the Book of Exodus, with the religious practices that were to be conducted within the Mishkan itself, and therefore it focuses upon the various forms of offerings and sacrifices.(ie; zevachim) that were integral to being able to worship God. As this was the climax of God’s revelation at Sinai, the Mishkan became the place of revelation, and focal point of corporate worship.
  (Exodus 25:22. 30:36.)
  Prophetically speaking, the Mishkan was a foreshadowing, and represented the redemptive plan of God, that culminated in the revelation of Yeshua the Messiah as being the appointed Lamb of God. (ie; seh ha-Elohim.)
  Therefore the Book of Leviticus is central to the Torah, and it provides the basis from which we can then understand, the multifaceted meaning in respects to the sacrifice of Yeshua for our reconciliation with God.
  All of the great doctrines of the New Testament, regarding Atonement, propitiation of sin, and the meaning of the cross of the Messiah, are all grounded in the sacrificial system that is revealed in the Mishkan.
  
  “Sacrifice” in English, is more closely associated with an act of “self deprivation”, to give up something of value, for something of a perceived greater value. However in the Torah, the concept of sacrifice has more to do with making an offering to God as the means to be able to draw closer to Him. These sacrifices were intended to express gratitude and joy, while at the same time, remove the obstacles that were caused by mans defilement, and sin. In actuality, the most common Hebrew word that is utilized to describe sacrifice is “korban”, which comes from the root “karov”, meaning to “come close”, or to “draw near.” In the Mishkan, “korbanot” consisted of the various ritualized acts that were used for the worshipper to draw near to God.
  
  You may be asking yourself, “What is my point with all of the above?”
  
  Well first, it is to express that the whole point of the Torah was, if we read the white letters, (and being a self professed scholar, you should be familiar with that rabbinical expression), “That to obey, is better than having to sacrifice.”
  Secondly, since the Laws were impossible for man to execute with perfection, that required for God to provide that perfection in our stead, in the form of the Messiah. The Torah is simply a foreshadowing of the better New Covenant that Yeshua in His grace performed on our behalf.
  To continue to follow the Torah, is in essence to deny Yeshua’s sacrifice! And He by the shedding of His blood, is the only way now to draw near to God the Father.
  
  The sacrifice of Yeshua as the Kohen Gadol, (High Priest) of the “new and better” covenant was a gift to us from God, for those who place their trust in His Son. The Cross literally represents the “kapporet”, (mercy seat) of the New Covenant. For it was on that Cross that He shed His blood for our everlasting reconciliation to God.
  It is only because of the Korban of Yeshua, that we can all draw near to God. As well, when the sacrifice was complete and Yeshua did die, the veil of the Temple, the “parochet” the separated the Holy of Holies from the Holy Place, was rent asunder, thereby granting access to the “Throne of Grace.” Because of the High Priestly work of Yeshua, neither Levitical, or any other mediators for that matter are necessary, and all that now trust in Yeshua, are called “spiritual kohanim.” Followers of Yeshua have an altar of grace, where those who attempt to follow that of the older system, are unable to partake in.
  
  Gregg said this on March 10, 2011 at 3:48 am | Reply
  - Oh Al,
    Please don’t take offence to the,”and being a self professed scholar, you should be familiar with that rabbinical expression”
    part. As I said it was a repost, and initially it was directed to someone else. I forgot that it was in there. Sorry.
    
    Gregg said this on March 10, 2011 at 3:54 am | Reply
    - Hey Gregg,
      
      Sorry it took so long for me to get back with you. Just a lot going on. Regarding taking offence, there is none.
      
      I wanted to respond to some of your comments:
      
      Your comment Verse (5) Question? Are you suggesting here that Elijah, (perhaps he has already been here or will be one of the two witness) will not testify of Christ?
      
      Psalm 40:7-8 (King James Version)
      7Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,
      8I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart.
      
      John 1
      1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
      
      Luke 24:44 (King James Version)
      44And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
      
      I put these scriptures down to show that Yahshua is one with the word and the word is one with Him! The Law, the prophets, and the Psalms all testified of Him. You can not delcare these things without declaring the Messiah Yashua. If I were to say to you, God’s Right Hand, I would be declaring Yahshua to you, because that is what the Word delcares him to be. You evidently have a certain criteria that you consider to be “testifying of Christ”. I would be interested in knowing what it is.
      
      Your comment Verse (6) I believe this is just referring to when what the truth that is preached by Elijah, will be fully understood as the fathers and children are both of one accord, and agree in understanding.
      
      Luke 1:17 (King James Version)
      17And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.
      
      If you will notice in this verse in Luke, it is just about the same verse as in Malaki, but with some interpretation. Elijah turns the hearts of the fathers (Avraham, Isaac, and Jacob) to the children, (but where it reads in Malaki, and the hearts of the children to the fathers, it reads in Luke) and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just. My question is, can you see it???? The children are the diobedient and the fathers are the just.
      
      If you will look at the last part of Luke 1:17 it will give you the reason for Elijah coming in the first place, “to make ready a people prepared for the Lord. Elijah, whether in bodily form or spirit, is coming to prepare His people (to get the dross out; to restore truth and right understanding; to make His people Holy (set apart) before Him. The church (at least for the most part) not knowing or understanding anything about the Feasts of Yah or the Torah, has lead to a total lack of understanding of a lot of these things. I know you are passionate in defending the Faith. But just as Yah blinded Yisrael in the days of Yahshua, so the gentile church has been blinded to a lot of these things over the past 2000 years. The season of The Fall Feasts brings about the restoration of all things. You are right and to be commended for your passion and love for the Messiah. You are just misunderstanding some things that He desires for you to know and embrace.
      
      One last thing concerning the Torah:
      
      Matthew 5:18 (King James Version)
      
      18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
      
      The pivotal phrase in this verse is “till “ALL” be fulfilled”. So, how long is the Law in effect? Were all of the prophecies in the Torah, the prophets, and the Psalms fulfilled when Yahshua ascended into the heavens. NO!! Then when will ALL be fulfilled? The prophecies regarding the Messiah and His people and the judgement of the Nations goes until the end of the 1,000 year reign of Messiah. Notice the first part of the verse, “Till heaven and earth pass! These are the words of Yahshua. If this is wrong, show me where it is wrong. I am willing to listen!!!
      
      Your brother in the Messiah!
      
      Al said this on March 14, 2011 at 8:43 pm | Reply
      - Hi Al,
        
        Glad that you realized that my comment wasn’t directed at you, and that there was no hard feelings about it.
        
        Regarding what you say above….
        Sorry, but I am not really sure what you are trying to convey?
        Where you say above, “I put these scriptures down to show that Yahshua is one with the word and the word is one with Him! The Law, the prophets, and the Psalms all testified of Him. You can not delcare these things without declaring the Messiah Yashua. If I were to say to you, God’s Right Hand, I would be declaring Yahshua to you, because that is what the Word delcares him to be.”
        
        Well, I would agree fully with that, and would add, that Yeshua is “IT!”
        
        That everything leads to, and consists solely of HIM. That if you try to add to Him and what He did in anyway, you are diminishing that act of sacrifice for us.
        
        You and I appear to interpret scripture differently as well.
        I think that we will just have to agree to disagree.
        Shalom,
        Blessings >
        
        Gregg said this on March 15, 2011 at 9:30 pm | Reply
        
        Hey Gregg,
        
        I understand that the discussion is pretty much over with. Just wanted to leave this question with you; If the Torah was done away with, where are the witnesses to this most major of events? Every one quotes Paul, but really no one else. Why did Yah require two or more witnesses in matters of importance? So that there could be no doubt and no misunderstanding. Why would Yah go against His own word and supposedly make this most momentous decision to nullify the Torah, and only use one witness? Doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. If there only seems to be one witness, could it be that there is a misunderstanding, concerning the doing away with the Torah, in the teachings of Paul?
        
        2 Corinthians 13
        1This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.
        
        Matthew 18:16 (King James Version)
        16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
        
        1 Timothy 5:19 (King James Version)
        19Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses.
        
        Be Blessed in the Messiah
        
        Al said this on March 16, 2011 at 9:18 pm | Reply
        
        Hi Al,
        
        Just wondering, are you insinuating that we should disregard Paul’s 13 epistles?
        
        Assume simply because he was the major writer, or orator of them that he was also alone, and not accompanied by another apostle, or witness?
        
        Romans 16:21,22 would infer that they had perhaps been introduced to Timothy,(his fellow worker), Lucius, Jason, Sosipater, Gaius, Erastus, Quartus, and Tertius who wrote the epistle. (for just one out of many examples)
        We know for a fact that Paul was with Barnabas, and with Timothy during many journeys. And Judas and Silas as well when they all went to Antioch
        
        Do we disregard that all the other apostles and elders became silent and listened to what Barnabas and Paul had to say during the Jerusalem Council?
        
        Do we disregard that after hearing what was said, James himself confirmed a conclusion that he reached based on that information, and that Gentiles were also indeed a part of God’s plan of inheritance?
        
        Do we just chuck out the New Testament altogether?
        
        I could go on Al. I don’t believe that you have enough foundational evidence to support your position that couldn’t be addressed with scripture or supportive information to the contrary.
        
        Paul was simply one of the greatest apostles, and a martyr for Christ as well. I can not simply disregard what he has to say, because I believe that he speaks God the Fathers word.
        
        Again, we will have to agree to disagree.
        Blessings.
        
        Gregg said this on March 17, 2011 at 12:29 am | Reply
        
        It is only natural that Paul wrote majority of letters because he was operating in the area of Rome where it was customary to send letters. For his desciples Jesus earlier said that go at first to the lost sheep of Israel. Similarly like Paul the Spirit guided them where to go. One went to India, another to northern Europe etc. I long wondered what did He mean by saying that you cannot go thru all Israeli cities before I come back. The obvious reason is that these lost tribes are spread all over the world, some even in very small communities.
        
        Seppo said this on March 17, 2011 at 4:21 am | Reply
        
        Hey Gregg,
        
        I am glad you wrote back. Just to be clear, if you go back and read my post again, you will see that I have no problems with Paul. In fact, just the opposite. He is one of the most learned and respected of the Apostles and I agree 100% with that. I never even hinted at doing away with his writings and teachings. I fully embrace them.
        
        My comment from the other post; If there only seems to be one witness, could it be that there is a misunderstanding, concerning the doing away with the Torah, in the teachings of Paul?
        
        Your Knee jerk reaction is to think I am bashing Paul. That is the furthest thing from the truth. The misunderstanding mentioned above, is with the church, not Paul. The other Apostles had a difficult time understanding Paul, and they were all Jews from a Jewish culture. But they embraced him as a fellow co-worker in the Messiah. They (the other Apostles) were the witnesses with Paul, along with Yahshua. and the Word. Paul was nothing less than a Torah keeping Jew, blameless. Banrnabas, Timothy and the others you mentioned, were co-workers with Paul, but had no place in being a witness to the subject we are talking about, which is the Torah being nullified. I have the highest regard for theses men and the role they played in helping to bring the Messiah to the gentiles. It directly affects me and you. Paul and the other apostles are in agreement. Because the church, through bad translations and a desire to get away from anything considered Jewish, changed times and seasons, we have the traditions now that haunt us and keep us from the fullness of what Yah has for us.
        
        Question; who changed the Sabbath from the 7th day to the first day. Yahshua didn’t and the Apostles didn’t. I understand what is said about Yahshua rising from the dead on the first day of the week. There is controversy about that, but won’t go there now. Just simply, where does it say that the Sabbath was to be changed? I know that Emperor Constantine (the creater of the all gentile church) didn’t like anything that smacked of Jewry. The believers of that day traded the things of Yah for a cessation of persecution, allowing a pagan Roman Emperor to create The Roman Catholic Church, which in turn, has created a total ignorance of our rootsand foundation. What the church believes now has almost a 2000 year history. It is so ingrained in us, it is almost impossible to budge someone from it. It is a lot easier to believe there are no rules and we are not responsible for anything any longer. Doesn’t it seem strange that Paul, who had supposedly thrown off the commandments and the Torah, circumsized Timothy personally. Timothy was half gentile and half Jew. How does Paul do this and then supposedly teach that we no longer keep the Torah? Because the church doesn’t understand what Paul was saying, they are content to go with things as they are. It is too difficult at this point to change. But the time for dealing with this is near. It is the 144,000 who will, with the two witnesses, bring all things into the light and turn the disobedient to the Father and His Messiah.
        
        Wish you all the best in the Messiah!
        
        Al said this on March 17, 2011 at 7:44 pm | Reply
        
        Hi Al,
        Hope your well.
        I’ll reply below, cause this is like writing on a pencil.
        🙂
        
        Gregg said this on March 17, 2011 at 10:39 pm | Reply
  - http://jardalkalataol.blogspot.com/2015/09/josephs dream egypt and nibiru.html;
    https://www.blogger.com/blogger.g?blogID=3680913055251911236#allposts/src=dashboard Nibiru study.
    
    Greg, you might want to check out Malachi 4 here as well.
    
    jardalkal said this on October 8, 2015 at 3:40 pm | Reply
sent in by CJ

Luke Chapter 21 vs. 25-28

25And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; 26Men’s hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 27And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

Raw Video: Tsunami Slams Northeast Japan

Japan 8.9 earthquake – March 11th 2011

China Two Suns Bible Sign Luke 21:25

MSNBC reports on TWO SUNS!!

2 SUNS – Nibiru? – Recorded in Puerto Rico 3-5-2011

–

Marianne said this on March 11, 2011 at 2:50 pm | Reply
- wow!
  Especially the Begley video.
  
  I had a dream on the night of 6/3/10, from which I tried to wake myself but could not. I had to go through the whole thing, and then when i did finally awake in a cold sweat, I had to go and write it down. I have not talked to anyone about this dream, but the Begley video about being betrayed by those around you struck a chord, and made me think of it. The dream was a personal prophecy, not so much one for the rest of the church, but it has some relavence to the church. In this dream, I was forced to go to trial to prove my “value to our family and society”. This made me think of the scales of the third seal. Before heading into the trial, I was forced to fill out a questionaire in order to find my value (worth). The court case was much like any court case you would see in modern courts, but in the end my wife took the stand in my defense (supposedly) and then proceded to attack me and the things I had valued (my faith). I then was given a chance to make a final statement, but what was said left me. (I believe that this was the testimony of the spirit, and this was why it left me).
  
  Many of the details and words in the dream were vivid and personally related to my family, some of which have already occurred, or are in the process of occurring in my life. For example, I had a situation with one of my kids coaches for a sport, where i had to confront him about certain things. I have done this with my wife’s agreement, but in the end, in the trial she turns and uses this against me. Its as if I am living certain events in my life knowing full well the outcome of each.
  
  Around this time is also when I began to delve into prophecy in the Bible, This dream led me there, to search for what it all meant.
  I Do not know if this will benefit any of the christians that are out there, but the verses which stuck out for me were Luke 21:14-19
  and Matthew 24:10,12. “And then many will fall away and betray one another.v12 and because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold.”
  
  Luke 21:14 in particular struck me because i was not “allowed” to remember my final statements. I came to realize that this was so that I would not be allowed to “meditate beforehand (on) how to answer.”
  I guess I felt like this was the right time to reveal this dream of mine, and would like to see if their was anyone else out there who have seen dreams of this kind. At any rate, I am seeing the lawlessness increase, and the love of many growing cold around me.
  
  A question for you marianne, do you think that personal prophecies such as this are revealed, or must they always be more general?
  
  dru said this on March 12, 2011 at 7:29 pm | Reply
  - Hey dru!
    
    I am a firm believer in G-d giving us dreams and visions as is stated in Acts?
    
    Within a year, I have had a dream of the “rapture”. First one was last March 2010. The last one had 2 moons? maybe one was a planet, not sure…but the second one was enormous!!
    
    Over the years, I have found that G-d will often times communicate with us in dreams about what is to come.
    
    The fact that you can remember this dream and that it had this great an affect on your emotions tells me this was most likely a “G-d dream” 🙂
    
    Most of our dreams are fuzzy, in black and white and soon forgotten.
    
    Hey Marianne,
    
    What about doing a “dream post” where we can put our dreams down and see if there is a pattern. To see how G-d is communicating with His kids that don’t know each other and come from different parts of the world?
    
    Thanks for sharing your dream Dru!
    
    lyndsey said this on March 12, 2011 at 8:05 pm | Reply
  - hi dru
    
    I think each person is unique and so each dream will be unique to that person. God helps us obtain insight into our own lives through our dreams.
    
    Marianne said this on March 12, 2011 at 10:32 pm | Reply
All I want to say is please don’t believe the idiots trying to push the “2 suns” idea. It is all just bunk. They are all simply optical effects whether in the atmosphere or the camera. If the solar system really has two suns, surely it would be known by this time. Surely the “other” sun would become visible during a solar eclipse.It should also be quite visible at sunrise and sunset. Have you ever seen it? It can’t hide from the entire scientific world. An if it’s new, where did it come from and why didn’t anyone see it as it approached our sun? The whole idea is total nonsense.
Yes, we are told to look for signs in the heavens as the second coming draws near. But are these signs so lame they can only be viewed on YouTube? Is Jesus’ return really going to be that subtle? I fear that sane people who look at this so-called “evidence” that the second coming is upon us are going to think we are just a bunch of nuts clinging to any little trace of hope that bible events are coming to pass.
So I will have to be the voice of reason here I guess. Don’t fall for this crap or you will bring us all down to the same level as the YouTube yuksters who get off by fooling gullible people into believing their tales of fancy.
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. He is not a wizard, he’s just a faker.
Make like the scarecrow – get yourself a brain!
So there.

James Giordano said this on March 15, 2011 at 1:42 pm | Reply
- James
  Just to make you feel better I will not believe it till i see it myself (2 suns). If it is real, you should be able to see it using binoculars/telescope and a welding visor at dawn. I think marianne puts this stuff out there so that we can discern for ourselves what is true or not. I personally like this sight because you can think outside of the conventional way of thinking (A tool of Brainstorming). When you brainstorm, you throw a lot of crazy ideas out there, and get feedback from those you are brainstorming
  with.
  My wow above was for the begley video, not for the 2 suns stuff, because some of the things he said struck a chord with the dream i mentioned above.
  I welcome your comments on that if you so feel led?
  
  dru said this on March 15, 2011 at 6:00 pm | Reply
  - Hey Dru,
    Actually, I hadn’t watched the Begley video, so I just did now so I can respond.
    First of all, as a student (long ago) with a minor in geology, I have been tracking the frequency of natural disasters for quite a while in an attempt to see if there is a noticeable increase in the power or frequency of these events and I’m convinced that there is. But are they the signs foretold by Jesus as the signs of His coming? I doubt it. First of all, the signs Jesus gave were actually the seven seals of Revelation, in the same order, to be fulfilled sequentially. Begley is lumping them all together using current events.
    As for the China event, I don’t believe it was anything more than an optical illusion – like a mirage. In the news report it described a clear, sharp disc (the sun) with a diffused,fuzzy disk next to it (the mirage). If there were truly two suns (which we all agree is not astronomically possible without throwing the earth out of it’s present orbit), it should have been visible and photographed everywhere else on that side of the planet – especially in areas where it was clear and not so cloudy. You will notice that all these 2-suns effects happen on cloudy days. It’s part of the effect.
    Now if God simply created a miracle and made two suns appear intentionally, why did he do it for the area of the earth where there are so few Christians? All his hard work fell on blind eyes and deaf ears, so to speak. Why did He leave all of us true believers who are waiting for His signs out of the picture?
    Sorry, but as anxious as I am to see these future signs, I refuse to pander to people like Begley who want us to believe that these pitiful sightings are supposed to be majestic signs of the one true God. O, His signs will be unmistakable, and all will see them clearly. My God is not going to rely on YouTube idiots to harken His second coming.
    I admit, it’s fun to look at, but no true believer should take this stuff seriously.
    I’m waiting for the real thing.
    
    James Giordano said this on March 16, 2011 at 5:17 am | Reply
    - James
      You don’t think that having two thousand year magnitude quakes in the past two years is significant, not to mention the countless 6.5+ magnitude quakes in that same time frame?
      As for the order of the seven seals, I personally believe they are occurring at this time. The four horsemen are amongst us now waiting to be unleashed. The coming theocracy in the muslim world being the fourth is just coming together. I believe they will be released simultaneously, along with the persecution of the church (the fifth seal). The order your referring to being the order they have been founded. Catholocism = white horse, Secularism/Atheism = red horse, Protestantism = black horse, Islamic theocracy = Chloros(green) horse, And their respective governmental ideals.
      As you know, secularism by way of the renaissance/ illuminati, as well as protestantism were reactionary movements to the Dogma of the Catholic church. Each unto itself had both good and bad parts to them, with eventually the bad overtaking the good due to the sinfulness of man. Though the muslim religion has been around longer than the reformation and secularism, it is only now beginning to get rid of the monarchical or dictatorial forms of government imposed on them by the catolic/ western world, and the theocracy is being set up.
      If you don’t agree with my interpretation of the seals, that is one thing, but then let me hear yours, and have the debate, so that the truth may come out.
      
      dru said this on March 16, 2011 at 2:15 pm | Reply
      - I believe that the seven seals are simply the Olivet Prophecy reiterated. Jesus is simply repeating them in the Book of Revelation. They appear in the exact same order, and as you know, most everything in the bible is stated more than once, especially if it is important.
        Since they are both in the same order one must assume that they occur consecutively and not all at once.
        The four horseman represent the Antichrist which I agree is part of the catholic church (the next pope). This is followed by war – WW3 in fact, a nuclear holocaust, followed by hunger and starvation, followed by disease and pestilences. Each of the last three is caused by the previous seal. They are inevitable occurrences and not acts of God. Man will bring these on himself and if left to continue there will be “no flesh left alive.”
        After the seven seals come the 7 trumpets followed by the 7 vials of judgement (plagues) afflicting those who have the mark of the beast. 21 events, all in order.
        While there has been a noticeable increase in natural disasters, I’m not so sure they are the work of God. If so, scientists would have declared them as such. No, these are not the seals. They are just a prelude. The seals will be unmistakable.
        While I agree with your assessment of the various churches as being apostate, there is no scriptural references to them, only the church of Rome – the woman who sits on seven hills, is described in Revelation. This mother of harlots also has daughter (protestant) churches that will also be judged and found wanting, so I got you there, but the seals? No, these are end-time events and should not happen until after the fig tree has sprouted (1948 when Israel was restored).
        I know everyone ones to think we are super close to the second coming, so they tend to grasp at every little event that they can make fit the prophecy, but I am patient, now although I wasn’t always.
        But I would like to have your thoughts on the woman that sits on 7 hills and the mark of the beast. Perhaps I will catch you on Marianne’s other blog page – Is the woman who sits on 7 hills really Rome?
        In any case, be well and God bless.
        
        James Giordano said this on March 16, 2011 at 9:07 pm | Reply
        
        James
        Thank you for your response above, it was insightful, as well as repectfull.
        
        I agree with you that the olivet discourse is a orderly account of the seals, Matthew 24:8 says that “theses (the first four seals) are but the beginning of the birth pains.” (ESV Parenthesis added) This marks the start of the tribulation. (note: not the “great tribulation”) This is probably where you disagree with me?
        
        Much like your reading of revalation, I too always thought of the seals, trumpets and vials all coming one after the other. But then when I studied revalation 12, it was clearly talking about the death and resurrection of Jesus, and his victory over Satan, which happened on the cross.
        
        After seeing this, backjump in revalation, I began to look for the keys that would unlock this backjump. Then it hit me,(or the Holy Spirit hit me as the case was), Revalation was written like a disaster story depicting multiple characters with varying stories leading up to that catastrophic event (The Day of the Lords return.) So therefore, the book of revalation explains the history of the churches to the return of the Lord, The seven seals through to the day of the Lord, the seven trumpets through to the day of the lord, the vials, the history of the jewish state to the day of the Lord etc.
        So the question then became what signifies the Day of the Lord, you have to go to the Old testament to find the answer, in the hidden prophecies of Asaph, (that is worthy of a different study) Namely Psalms 50,73-83. Psalm 50:2-3 “Out of Zion, the perfection of beauty, God shines forth. 3. Our God Comes; he does not keep silence; Before him, a devouring fire, around him a mighty tempest.” (ESV) Also Ezekial 38:19-23 Talks about the great earthquake, torrential rains and hailstones etc. on the day of the lords return. (Note: this also places Gog and magog in the timeline of revalation)
        
        see also Revalation 4:5, 8:5, 11:19, 16:18,21. These are the transitions you will find in Revalation (Note: the transition btween the seven trumpets and seven vials is more subtle (rev14:14-20) but you will see the results thereof “wine press of God’s wrath”.)
        
        Sorry if this is poorly worded, my point is that if I was writing a book, with multiple characters (plots), I could do it one of two ways, in perfect sequential order, (One character wakes up at seven AM, then next character at 7:10 AM ad infinitum.) what you would end up with is story that jumps from place to place, person to person, setting to setting; In other words a confusing mess. Or you can write the story of one character to its conclusion, and then the next,etc. The problem with this second method is that it is difficult to know when one character took a shower in the morning, in relation to when the other person ate breakfast. A good writer will know how to give clues as to where these occur, and God is a good writer. For example, look for passages that sound like the fifth seal, the persecution of the Christians. This also will help place many of the old testament prophecies in context with the timeline such as Gog and Magog wars.
        
        James, when the Spirit revealed this way of understanding prophecy and particularly Revalation, it has opened a whole new window of insight into the Bible. Revalation is no longer confusing and disjointed, but rather a literary masterpiece. I am truly amazed at the beauty of God’s inspired word. The words of the old testament also fit perfectly with this. It is like when Gallileo placed the sun at the center of the solar system, and all the retrograde motion of the planets was explained away.
        
        As for the woman that sits on seven hills, This is the catholic church. During the tribulation (first 3.5 years) the “dragon” will attack the saints (see revalation 12:17, But those who “hold to the testimony of Jesus” will make him unsuccesful, because he is “standing on the sand of the sea” AKA a poor foundation (Think of the weekness of atheism and evolutionary theories). After this he will coopt the catholic church and stand on the foundation of theism (there is a God), and will give his authority to the beast. The harlot will be tolerated for a time, (used as tool for gaining power) but eventually the beast will kill her as well. This false religion will then support the Beast in its quest to anhialate true Christians.
        
        As for the mark of the Beast, I am not 100% certain of yet. I know you believe it is keeping the sabbath. But I will go back to Asaph again and quote psalm 50:16-17 “But to the wicked God says: ‘what right have you to recite my statutes or take my covenent on your lips? 17. for you hate discipline and cast my words behind you.'” Verse 22-23 then concludes; “Mark this, then you who forget God, lest I tear you apart and there be none to deliver! 23. The one who offers thanksgiving as his sacrifice glorifies me; to the one who orders his way rightly I will show the salvation of God.”
        Thus the wicked will be quoting God’s statutes (laws, works?) But those that offer thanks giving as his sacrifice (not a work) Glorify him. So in my opinion, it will be the ritualism of the church that will be the mark of the beast.
        
        I hope this makes sense, as I am not by any means an expert in prophecy, but the Spirit in me is revealing many wonders in the Word of God to me, And I am still grasping at understanding all of them.
        
        In closing I will end with a question, or rather a request of you, Try reading revalations with the idea that it is story written with multiple story lines all leading to one event, and then tell me why this is the wrong way to see revalation.
        May the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth lead You.
        
        dru said this on March 17, 2011 at 2:19 am | Reply
        
        “Revalation is no longer confusing and disjointed, but rather a literary masterpiece.”
        
        I like that…
        
        Lyndsey said this on March 17, 2011 at 2:36 am | Reply
        
        Lindsey
        It is true, I am so blown away by what the Spirit is leading me to in my studies. All glory to God!
        
        dru said this on March 17, 2011 at 2:47 am | Reply
        
        🙂
        
        Lyndsey said this on March 18, 2011 at 2:11 am | Reply
        
        Lindsey
        I stumbled on another reference to day of the Lord in end times with regard to tempests, hailstones, earthquake, loud noise. Fits in perfectly with revalation. Isaiah 29:6 and surrounding.
        
        Amazing!
        
        dru said this on March 20, 2011 at 1:37 am | Reply
        
        Greetings Dru,
        
        I don’t believe that I have seen you out here before. My name is Don and I thought that I would respond to your’s and James debate. Hope you don’t mind.
        
        You wrote:
        “I agree with you that the Olivet discourse is a orderly account of the seals, Matthew 24:8 says that “theses (the first four seals) are but the beginning of the birth pains”
        
        Rebuttal:
        I’m not sure of whether or not that you are making the claim that we are currently experiencing the seals or not, but I will throw them in here anyway. I believe that the 1st seal/white horse is the ruler, antichrist, the man of lawlessness who is Satan’s counterfeit of the rider on the white horse of Rev.20:11-16 which is Jesus Christ, the Word of God.
        Therefore, since I believe that the antichrist is the 1st seal, that would mean that he would have to be revealed prior to the events of the 2nd, 3rd and 4th seals taking place and since we have yet to see him, ergo, neither the 2nd, 3rd or 4th seals have taken place.
        
        You wrote:
        “Much like your reading of revelation, I too always thought of the seals, trumpets and vials all coming one after the other”
        
        Rebuttal:
        By his statement above, I am assuming that you do not consider that the seals, trumpets and bowls to be in chronological order. I have also looked at the possibility of the seals, trumpets and bowls running parallel to one
        another, but it just becomes a big mess, as nothing matches up. The only simularities is the mention of the 6th seal and the 7th bowl, which mentions an earthquake of
        which both affect the islands and the mountains, But upon closer
        inspection, John lists the one in the 6th seal as a “Great Earthquake” and the one in the 7th bowl as “No earthquake like it ever occurring since man has been on the earth” which would include the one that he mentions in the
        6th seal. Also, with the earthquake in the 6th seal the islands and mountains are moved out of their places (shifted), where the result from the earthquake in the 7th bowl, John states that the islands flee away and the mountains are not found. Though the 6th seal has a great earthquake, it is not equal to the one that takes place at the 7th bowl judgment, which is
        unprecedented and therefore, they are just two different earthquakes.
        
        Similarly, the 6th seal cannot be synonymous with the events of the return of Christ in Rev. 19:11-16, for if you will notice, in the event of the 6th seal, the kings, princes, generals, the rich, the mighty and everyone else
        are hiding in caves and among the rocks of the mountains and calling to the mountains and rocks to fall on them in order to hide them from the face of Him who sits upon the throne. In contrast, in John’s description of the Lord’s return in Rev.19:11-16, those same kings, generals and mighty men are not hiding, but are making war against the rider on the horse as He is returning to the earth.
        In regards to the rest of the seals, trumpets and bowls, they are all separate, chonological events.
        
        Furthermore, we do know from Scripture that the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments are in fact chronological by looking at the following Scripture:
        
        “I saw in heaven another great and marvelous sign: seven angels with the seven last plagues–last, because with them God’s wrath is completed.” (Rev.15:1)
        
        Now, in the verse above it states that there are seven angels with the seven “last” plagues. Since the bowl judgments, as a unit, are said to be the last plagues, then it must follow that there must be plagues that will take place first, that is, prior to the bowls, otherwise, they could not be called “Last,” and therefore, “Last” would infer chronology. In other words, since the bowl judgments are said to be last, then there has to be
        plagues that will be first, correct? Since the bowl judgments are said to be the last plagues which complete God’s wrath, then the seals would be first, the trumpets are the second set of judgments, with the bowls completing God’s wrath, they being last.
        
        You wrote:
        “But then when I studied revelation 12, it was clearly talking about the death and resurrection of Jesus, and his victory over Satan, which happened
        on the cross.”
        
        Rebuttal:
        There are many people who interpret the “Male Child” that the woman gives birth to as referring to Jesus, but this is easy to easy to disprove. Someone, somewhere, at some time, read the designation “Male Child”
        and deduced that this was in representation of Jesus because the woman (Israel) gave birth to Him. Though it is true that Jesus, as far as the flesh is concerned, comes from the tribe of Judah, this is not what is meant
        by the woman giving birth. A problem with many expositors is that, once a person comes up with
        an interpretation, then a whole lot of people follow suit without question, and this happens to be one of those issues. So, the question is, does Jesus fit
        the criteria of being the “Male Child?” To get the answer to this question we must of course read the Scripture.
        
        “The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that he might devour her child the moment it was born. She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter. And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne.”
        
        We know that the dragon is identified as Satan in Rev.12:7-9 and we know that the woman is Israel as revealed in Gen.37:9-10. Therefore, Satan is waiting in the presence of Israel to kill her child the moment it is born
        and she gives birth to a male child, but as soon as it is born and before Satan can devour it, it is “snatched up” to God and to his throne. The meaning of this is
        that, before Satan can do anything to the child, it is snatched up to
        God before he can kill it. I would point out that the words translated “Snatched up” is the same Greek word “Harpazo,” which denotes “Force suddenly exercised or a snatching away” and it is the same word used in 1 Thess.4:16 to describe the church being “snatched up” or “Caught up” to meet the Lord in the air. It is also the same word used in Acts 8:39 when after Philip had baptized the eunuch, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly “took Philip
        away” and he appeared in the city called Azotas. It is also the same word used in 2 Cor.12:4 where Paul said that he was “Caught up” to the third heaven where he received visions and revelations and things that man is not
        permitted to speak. My point is that, before Satan can devour, that is, kill the male child, he is “Snatched up” to God’s throne before Satan can harm him. I will go as far as to say that, this male child will be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye and caught up in the same manner as the living church at the time of the Lord’s appearing. Now, does
        Jesus fit the criteria of the male child? The answer is a definite No! Jesus was born, started his ministry at the approximate age of 30 years old and was crucified right on time and according to plan and praise be to God and Amen! In contrast to the male child, Jesus was killed and not snatched up to God’s throne before anything could happen to him. So in keeping with the Scripture, Jesus would in fact have been devoured, that is, killed by Satan at the hands of men. I believe that the male child is a collective name for the 144,000, which the nation Israel gives birth to, that is, these 144,000 Israelites come to the knowledge by the grace of God that Jesus is their is their Messiah, ergo, gives birth to. Something else to take note of in relation to the designation “male child” is that in Rev.14, these 144,000 are shown to be all males, ergo, the male child
        
        Now some will argue that it mentions that the male child will “rule all nations with an iron scepter” and so this has to be Jesus. Not so! Though this position is given to Jesus, it is also said of the male child, as well as a promise given to all believers who overcome as promised in the letter to the church of Thyatira, which says:
        
        “To him who overcomes and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations– He will rule them with an iron scepter; he will dash them
        to pieces like pottery–”
        
        So you see, Jesus, the male child and all overcomers will share in this position and that it is not exclusive to Jesus. Therefore, those who make the argument that this is speaking exclusively about Jesus would be in error as I believe I have just shown.
        
        You also wrote:
        “So the question then became what signifies the Day of the Lord,”
        
        Though the “Day of the Lord” is mentioned throughout the OT, we do not need to go there to know when it begins, as this information is contained in Paul’s outline of the “Day of the Lord” starting in 1 Thess.4:13-18 through 5:1-11. From 4:13 through 4:18 Paul outlines the resurrection and catching away as taking place first, referring to this event as the “Day of the Lord”. In 5:1-2 Paul then outlines peace and safety and then sudden destruction which follows. So, the resurrection and catching away, followed by the wrath, both fall under the banner of “The Day of the Lord,” with the resurrection and catching away initiating it.
        In fact, in the OT, the catching away, as being apart of the day of the Lord, was not known or even revealed to them, as it was still a mystery which Paul revealed to the Corinthians found in
        1 Cor.15:51, when he said, “Listen, I tell you a mystery.”
        
        In any case, I thought that I would share some of what I have garnered from my studies.
        
        Always in Christ
        
        Don McAllister said this on March 18, 2011 at 8:41 am | Reply
        
        Part Deux,
        
        You wrote:
        “As for the woman that sits on seven hills, This is the Catholic church. During the tribulation (first 3.5 years) the dragon will attack the saints (see revelation 12:17), But those who hold to the testimony of Jesus will make him unsuccessful, because he is standing on the sand of the sea AKA a poor foundation (Think of the weakness of atheism and evolutionary theories). After this he will coopt the Catholic church and stand on the foundation of theism (there is a God), and will give his authority to the
        beast. The harlot will be tolerated for a time, (used as tool for gaining power) but eventually the beast will kill her as well. This false religion
        will then support the Beast in its quest to annihilate true Christians.
        
        Rebuttal:
        I agree with you here in regards to the woman who sits on seven hills being Roman Catholicism/Vatican, but I strongly disagree with the saints being persecuted during the first 3 1/2 years, because it is at the middle of the seven years, that is, the beginning of the second
        3 1/2 year period, of the great tribulation, that this ruler shows his true colors and sets up the
        abomination of desolation in the temple, for this is when he begins to proclaim himself to be God. We also know that it is the last
        3 1/2 years because in Rev.7:9-17 John sees a vision of them and the elder asks who they are. He then tells John that these are those who have come out of the “Great
        Tribulation” and we know that this time period begins at the middle mark leading up until the end when Jesus returns. It would make no sense for the beast to make war and to conquer the saints from the beginning of the seven to the middle, for what happens to them from the middle on? What does the
        beast do, give up on them? They will be persecuted from the middle of that last seven years all the way leading up to Christ’s return. In fact, it is at the middle point of the seven years when all hell literally breaks loose! Here is a list of the events that take place at or near the middle of the seven:
        
        Abaddon/Apollyon (beast) released from the Abyss. (Rev.910–11)
        
        Beast kills the two witnesses at the middle of the seven. (Rev.11:3-12)
        
        Satan and his angels thrown out of heaven and restricted to the earth, wich is the 3rd woe! (Rev.12:4,7-12)
        
        Abomination that causes desolation of Jerusalem is set up. (Dan.9:27;
        Rev.13:14-15 )
        
        Woman/Israel flees into the desert where she is taken care of for last 3 1/2 years until the Lord’s return. (Mt.24:15-24; Rev.12:6,13-16)
        
        Cash, checks, credit and debit made obsolete which forces all to receive the mark of the beast in order to be able to buy or sell (Rev.13:16-18)
        
        Beast makes war and conquers the great tribulation Saints during the last 3 1/2 years. (Dan.7:25-27; Rev.13:5–7)
        
        You also wrote:
        “As for the mark of the Beast, I am not 100% certain of yet. I know you believe it is keeping the Sabbath. But I will go back to Asaph again and quote psalm 50:16-17 “But to the wicked God says: ‘what right have you to recite my statutes or take my covenant on your lips? 17. for you hate discipline and cast my words behind you.'” Verse 22-23 then concludes; “Mark this, then you who forget God, lest I tear you apart and there be none to
        deliver! 23. The one who offers thanksgiving as his sacrifice glorifies me; to the one who orders his way rightly I will show the salvation of God.”
        Thus the wicked will be quoting God’s statutes (laws, works?) But those that offer thanks giving as his sacrifice (not a work) Glorify him. So in my opinion, it will be the ritualism of the church that will be the mark of the beast.”
        
        Rebuttal:
        With all due respect, none of the Scriptures that you listed above have anything to do with the
        mark of the beast. James is the one who thinks that the mark is not a literal mark, but that one receives the mark by making the decision to observe the Sabbath day on Sunday, which has to do with the law, which covenant we are not under. For regarding foods, feasts, holy days, circumcision, Scripture
        says the following:
        
        Colossians 2:13-17
        “When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. And
        having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross. Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New
        Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.”
        
        So here, sections of the law are mentioned namely, the food law, law for feasts and all holy days, including all Sabbath’s. For on that day there will be those who say, But Lord, Lord didn’t we (Whatever works a person is attempting to aid in salvation).
        
        As Paul said, no one will be justified by observing the law and whoever is, is bound to observe the whole law, all 800 or so of them. And if you break
        anyone one of them at any point, you’ve broken the whole law.
        
        How miserable to think that one must observe the Sabbath on Saturday, in order to aid in his or her salvation, instead of looking to the finished work of
        Christ on the cross!
        
        Don McAllister said this on March 18, 2011 at 9:04 am | Reply
        
        Don
        I will respond to you at the bottom, as i hate writing in these narrow columns.
        
        dru said this on March 18, 2011 at 1:30 pm | Reply
- You quack me up James!
  
  2 suns or not, I can’t wait to see the house fall on the wicked witch!
  
  Lyndsey said this on March 15, 2011 at 10:56 pm | Reply
- Hey James, I believe the two suns on March 4th, 2011 because that was on a Sabbath and it was also on the 4th Sabbath of Month 12.
  
  Luk 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
  
  Gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
  
  Well, what do you know that prophecy fulfills prophecy and willkeep fulfilling it until the end.
  
  Since you like touse cuss words, please bridle your tongue or cut it out of your mouth.
  
  jardalkal said this on October 8, 2015 at 4:07 pm | Reply
Hey Gregg,

I responded to your last post to me, but it didn’t show up on the e mail notification. Just to let you know if you would care to respond.

Al said this on March 15, 2011 at 2:34 pm | Reply
Hi Dru,
You know when I first started studying the Book of Revelation I was told that the events occur in parallel rather than in series (sorry for the electrical reference). I believed it for the longest time until I read a piece recently that explained it in complete detail. I now understand that the seven trumpets are part of the seventh seal and the seven vials are part of the last trump. You are right about how the book was written. It turns out there are several “insets” in what otherwise is a continuous story. It’s kind of like the old “Meanwhile, back at the ranch” insets in old silent western movies. When viewed in this light, the whole layout of the book falls into place. Seems like we both had similar epiphanies, but with totally different results.
The study I read was over 50 pages long so I can’t really explain it well in this thread so I won’t try. Enough to say I’ve looked at it from both side now and still somehow I’m convinced the events will happen in the order they were viewed and written, not including the insets of course.
Anyone else want to chime in on this one?

James Giordano said this on March 17, 2011 at 4:19 am | Reply
- James
  as you say above, we are on similar track. And I do see the trumpets and vials as part of seventh seal. I Just believe that the four horsemen are here amongst us and will be released if not at once, in quick succession. (a concession on my part)
  
  Do you see the historical relationship of the seven churches to the history of Christianity? For example how Laodocian church is like ours today etc. Philadelphia is also quite unique in that it is refering to the church in colonial U.S. which was founded in the “new Philadelphia. (my opinion of course)
  
  Oh, by the way, I tried to see the two suns, no luck. I also know that their are several things that must occur before the seals are released, Theocracy in Muslim world being one of them. We are however, very close though, I’d say within next 5-10 years to fifth seal if not sooner?
  
  dru said this on March 17, 2011 at 12:47 pm | Reply
  - Hey dru and James,
    
    I am “seeing” the horsemen here as well.
    
    Lyndsey said this on March 18, 2011 at 2:24 am | Reply
    - Let us all be ready when our time comes.
      Also lindsey, read the prophecies of Asaph (psalm 50,73-83 inclusive. Let the spirit lead you. They have shed a lot of light on revalation prophecy for me.
      
      dru said this on March 18, 2011 at 2:44 am | Reply
  - While the first horseman (“Many will come in My name”) may already be here, the next three (war, starvation and disease) are not. Many look around and see turmoil in the middle east, hunger in Africa and cholera in Haiti and think these are the seals.
    The war must be big – bigger than WW2 – or else why would it be a seal? I’m sure many Christians thought WW2 was a seal, but they were wrong. It was not time yet – Israel was not yet a nation. (This will be the war described by Daniel). Now the time is right. And WW3 will be much bigger, It will kill hundreds of millions. Nuclear winter will soon follow, Food will be scarce. Millions more will die and the beasts of the earth will feast on their carcasses. The rotten flesh will become a breeding ground for all sorts of pestilences which will kill billions more.
    These seals will come in rapid succession, but don’t look for them now. Look for a political environment that will lead to global war. And don’t forget the war of Gog which must come first The Muslims in the middle east are gearing up for it now. Look for a Caliphate to form, headquartered in Turkey. If you are looking for prophetic fulfillment, this is where you will find it. And while the war of Gog may lead directly to WW3, it is still too early to look for the rest of the seals.
    Of course it’s fun to look around and speculate and I’m sure people will continue to do so until the real thing happens, finally.
    As for me, I’m patient, so I’ll pass on the fun. I’ll keep trying to keep things in proper perspective until that day happens.
    Be blessed…
    
    James Giordano said this on March 18, 2011 at 6:24 am | Reply
  - Dru,
    Yes, the historical relationship of the seven churches to the history of Christianity is an important part of the prophecy, but I don’t believe that the colonial church(es) could qualify as “Philadelphian.” The church at Philadelphia represents the true church – the one Christ will marry when he returns. The fact that Jesus will “marry His “bride” proves that a woman in prophecy represents a church (either true or apostate).
    But the colonial churches were not true churches. They defied God’s fourth commandment and failed to honor the true sabbath. Most of them also honored pagan holidays like Christmas and Easter among other things. They also failed to honor the Jewish fall festivals (the first four have been fulfilled). Even the early seventh-day Adventists failed to do this.
    Jesus told His disciples that there would be an “end-time Elijah” who would “set things right.” He would found a “Philadelphian” church, but he would pass from the scene and his church would become Laodicean except for a tiny remnant led by someone He called “That prophet.”
    So the true church exists today but it is very small. Most of Christianity is Laodicean. Some are truly apostate.
    The good news is that the modern church of Philadelphia is out there. Look for it. You just might find it.
    Bless, everyone…
    
    James Giordano said this on March 18, 2011 at 7:48 am | Reply
    - James
      What are the verses you are quoting regarding end time Elijah? I know that the Latter day saints claim Joseph Smith as their prophet, and adventists have Ellen??(Name escapes me). I would like to see what bible says in context.
      Would it be the last verse of the OT?
      
      What is your response to psalm 50 regarding the offering of thanksgiving? What is the psalm 82 war describing and when will it occur? I think the Gog Magog war describes the war just before the lord’s return, while psalm 82 describes the attack on Israel that will get “swallowed up” by the earth (Rev 12:16). Note: the nations of first war (Psalms) are not in Gog war, while Gog war talks about all the nations not just arabic ones.
      
      As for Philadelphia church, you say it is the church created by the final prophet, does that not mmean that it should be last in the order? that would be contradicting what you said about the order of events in the Revalation? If then you say that there is an end times re-formation of the seven churches then what church fits what movement?
      this is an interesting concept though.
      
      Thank you though for your responses, I think we are largely in agreement though. The Lord will show us who is right on the minutia when the time comes. I don’t think God will punish us for not fully understanding the prophecies, so long as our hearts are true, and our faith is true.
      
      dru said this on March 18, 2011 at 1:10 pm | Reply
      - Here is a line from the booklet “The Key of David” from the Pholadelphia Church of God:
        
        Malachi 4:5-6 show that God planned to send a man in the
        office of Elijah to this sick world just before Christ’s return.
        This Elijah would teach about God’s Family. Matthew 17:10-11
        also show that this man would restore all things to the Church.
        
        Here are the verses:
        Mal 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
        
        Mal 4:6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
        
        Mat 17:9 And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.
        
        Mat 17:10 And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
        
        Mat 17:11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
        (This prophecy is dual – it applied to both John the Baptist and an end-time prophet.
        
        For more info on the end time Elijah send for this free booklet:
        http://www.thetrumpet.com/?page=book&b=266
        
        You will find tons of prophetic literature on this site.
        
        As for the order of the churches, as I said, the End-Time Elijah was to come, restore the true church, then die. After that his church would turn Laodicean. So we need to look for a restored church (sabbath-keeping) that reverted to a Laodicean state after the death of its founder.
        I admit, it takes a lot of study to understand all of this, including many minor prophets, but after a while it all begins to fall into place and makes sense. I believe it is well worth the effort if you are looking for the true end-time church (or churches).
        And while Ellen White did found the modern 7th Day Adventist movement, I don’t believe she was the prophet mentioned. She was about 100 years too early.
        
        I hope you will look into this more deeply and I hope I have given you a starting point for more study. Good luck and God bless.
        
        James Giordano said this on March 20, 2011 at 2:47 am | Reply
        
        Hi ya James,
        
        I am wondering if you would mind if I expressed something here?
        Initially it may sound to be philosophical in nature, however, I will back it up with some scripture at the end.
        I realize that you hold true to your belief that keeping the Sabbath is of the utmost importance. To the point even that you believe it has relevance to the mark of the beast.
        
        May I say this though, if we attempt to understand the completeness of what God the Father consists of, we have to come to the conclusion that He lacks of nothing. He is full, and complete in Himself. Therefore, there is nothing that we can do of our own accord to possibly add to Him whatsoever.
        With keeping that in mind, the Old Covenant consisted then of sacrificial acts, rituals, and traditions, that were created for mans benefit, in an attempt to maintain a position to where they could by theses demonstrations, pay homage, and worship God. (Though again, God does not “need” our worship, for He needs, or requires nothing.)
        
        These demonstrations all consisted solely of an external nature, and by performing them, (which they were obligated to do under the law), they still did not produced the desired effect of intimacy within relationship.
        There were only a choice few at any given time, that had been blessed with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that had that opportunity.
        
        In contrast though, the New Covenant is completely internal. The necessity to perform external sacrifices, and in maintaining particular rituals has been placed aside as being in the past, for a new and better Covenant has taken its place.
        Spiritual relationship, and the opportunity for intimacy within that relationship is now available for the asking by everyone, and it is not done out of obligation anymore, but out of our desire instead. We are dearly blessed to be able to attain that which of the Old Covenant couldn’t even comprehend.
        
        It is my belief that this choice of a heart filled desire to maintain relationship, is what now fulfills all the aspects of the old law. It is in placing our trust in Christ that He has fulfilled all things, that is in actuality what sets us free.
        
        In John 4:23,24 where He is speaking to the Samaritan woman, He says, “But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
        
        To me this suggests that nothing regarding external obligations are a necessity, or a requirement anymore.
        That we are, out of a heart filled desire to do so, to worship God both “in spirit and truth”, which are both solely internal.
        
        Just my thoughts.
        God Bless you brother.
        
        Gregg said this on March 20, 2011 at 6:42 pm | Reply
        
        Hi Gregg,
        I have had many such discussions over the years about whether the old laws and commandments were “nailed to the cross” with Jesus. A few were such as the spring festivals which were fulfilled by Jesus and therefore the disciples taught their followers that these particular sabbaths were no longer to be followed. But we both know that all the apostles kept and taught the commandments and kept the sabbath. There is nothing in the New Testament that tells us that we are to abandon the commandments. All of that happened much later when the church was merged with Roman religion under emperor Justinian.
        It’s strange but we all agree we should not worship idols or false God’s, nor take the Lord’s name in vain. Nor should we murder or steal etc.
        But what’s the harm in going to church on Sunday rather than the real sabbath?
        Because Sunday is Satan’s day of worship and God wrote in stone to “Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy.”
        But let’s say for the sake of argument that we are no longer under the law. Then I have to ask a simple question. If we are to be saved and born again, we must believe that Christ was the son of God and that He died on the cross for our sins. Then (as also with baptism) we must earnestly confess our sins and vow to sin no more (or at least try). We also pray the Lord’s prayer where we pray: “forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.” To trespass means to sin, of course, so my question is, if the law is void, then there can be no sin and if we are incapable of sinning why do we need to be forgiven. And why will there be a judgement day if nobody is guilty of anything and if our works are of no consequence?
        It just is not logical to me, an I was a digital logic designer for years, so I’m used to reading complex schematics to find out how things work. The bible is sort of like a giant schematic in my mind, so I like to read it in a logical manner. If you were to tell me that a new circuit board is plugged into the motherboard but has no power connections, yet it is still supposed to work with the rest of the machine, I’m going to question the design.
        Sorry, but pulling the plug on the ten commandments and expecting the word of God to keep working seems foolish to me. When the tribulation comes and we are searching a destroyed building looking for survivors, you’ll be the guy that says “Just pull that bare wire out from the wall. I’m sure the power is turned off…” Well, I know better than to take such a chance, so I won’t go for it. Hopefully I’ll be able to talk you out of messing with it either.
        So with deep sincerity in regards to believing it is OK to ignore God’s laws, all I can say is good luck, and God bless.
        (Or will He?)
        🙂
        
        James Giordano said this on March 21, 2011 at 6:12 am | Reply
        
        Hey James,
        
        I couldn’t help but respond to some of the comments that you made regarding Gregg’s post.
        
        You Wrote:
        “A few were such as the spring festivals which were fulfilled by Jesus and therefore the disciples taught their followers that these particular sabbaths were no longer to be followed.”
        
        Rebuttle:
        Your claim of reducing the law of Moses to meaning “Spring festivals” is completely assumed on your part and that for the purpose of supporting your believe, as there is no where in Scripture that this is inferred. When Paul says “Sabbaths,” he means, all Sabbaths, when he says “Law,” he is referring to the entire law of Moses. Paul is talking about all of the commands and regulations related to the law of Moses.
        
        You wrote:
        “There is nothing in the New Testament that tells us that we are to abandon the commandments.”
        
        Rebuttle:
        You obviously haven’t read Romans and Galatians, because law being dead is the bulk of the conversation. But, for the sake of brevity, here is one that says it all:
        
        “Some men came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the brothers: ‘Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.”
        
        And continuing on to the following verses:
        
        “Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up an said, ‘The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses.”
        
        Now, I want you to notice and keep in mind that, they mention the circumsision, which was a physical sign of the covenant of the law and then they mention the law of Moses, which covers the entire law, not just spring festivals, or any other made up claim. The Law of Moses is entails all of the 800 some-odd commands and regulations that made up the law of Moses. I just wanted to make this clear. Now, here is the response that Peter gave to those Pharisees who were claiming that they must be circumcised and keep the Law of Moses:
        
        “The apostles and elders met to consider this question. After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: ‘Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.
        
        And their ultimate answer in regards as to whether or not they should be circumcised and whether they should have to obey the Law of Moses was:
        
        James speaking:
        “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. Instead we should write to them , telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of stangled animals.”
        
        And that’s it! So, you can see that in regards to the pharisees protest that those in Christ should be made to be circumcised and to obey the Law of Moses, it was thrown out! And this is just one account, practically the entire letter to the Galatians speaks about the law being obsolete and the reason is, because Christ came and fulfilled it perfectly on our behalf, where mankind was unable to. Does that mean that we have carte Blanche to sin? God forbid! But now we keep those basic laws that would do harm to others by following Christ. If we are following Christ, that is trying to walk as he walked, then we will not be seeking to to those things written in the law, but not by following after the written code, but by being led by the Spriit of Christ. Does that mean that we are without sin, no! For, if any man says he has no sin, he is a liar and the truth is not in him. So, what happens when we fail? We go to the Father in the name of his Son who shed his blood for us and ask for forgiveness and Jesus is sitting at the right hand of the Father as our High Priest and is speakng on our behalf.
        
        We are all “Works in Progress.” Though we are not perfect, God sees us as perfect, because is looking at us through the eyeglasses of Christ. Jesus took upon himself the wrath that we deserve and paid the wages of sin on our behalf by making atonemnet with his blood. It is by recognizing his shed blood alone, without the works of the law, for the forgiveness our sins and our faith in that alone is the only thing that he is going to accept. If you have an attitude that says, “I must do this or that also in order to obtain or maintain salvaton and is my ticket into the kingdom of God, you will not gain access. In fact, Jesus gave an example of those who will have that exact attitude by saying:
        
        “But Lord, Lord, didn’t we
        (fill in the blanks for whatever you are trying to do to earn your way in.)
        
        Paul gave a good illustration from marriage regarding the law when he said (and I’m paraphrasing): A woman is obligated to the covenant of marriage to her husband as long as he lives, but when he dies, the wife is released from that covenant of marriage and she is no longer held accountable to the rules and regulations of that marriage. So also, since our husband, the law, has died, we believers as the wife, are no longer obligated to that marriage. Where there is no law, there is no transgression. Likewise, where there is law, there is trangression and wrath. For the law only makes us conscious of our sins and cannot save anyone. We are free from our oblgation of the rules and regulations of the law. If you attempt to claim any responsibility for your salvation, such as by saying, “But Lord, Lord, didn’t I keep your Sabbath on Saturday? Jesus resonse will be, “Depart from you evil doer! I never knew you.” Your salvation must be by the shed blood of Christ alone. Neither the Sabbath day, nor any Jewish holy day, nor any feast, nor abstaing from certain foods or anything at all that requirse works, which is attempting to earn your way in, anyone who has this Spirit will not enter in by any means.
        
        Paul said it well:
        
        “Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be cirucmcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is oblicated to obey the whole law.”
        
        Whoever is trying to obtain salvation by observing the law is a son of the slave woman Hagar and will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son. Those who belong to the free woman “Sarah” are saved as a result from a promise to Abraham and his decendants, those being everyone who is having the same faith that Abraham did. Abraham was credited with righteousness specifically because he believed God and not by performing charity or by observing the Sabbath, or feasts, or holy days or anything at all except for having faith. Against all odds, being a 100 years old, God told Abraham that he would give him a son and Abraham, regardless of his and Sara’s age, settled it in his heart and believed that God was able to do what he had promised and that alone is how Abraham was credited with righteousness.
        
        The only commands that we have today are to believe in God’s Son whom he sent and to love one another. For those who practice this, there is no law!
        
        One last note:
        
        You wrote:
        “Hopefully I’ll be able to talk you out of messing with it either.
        So with deep sincerity in regards to believing it is OK to ignore God’s laws, all I can say is good luck, and God bless.”
        
        Rebuttle:
        Those who are truly in Christ do not ignore God’s laws, but through Christ we fulfill them. God forbid that I should proclaim anything else for my salvation except the shed blood of my Lord Jesus. For the credit for our salvation belongs to him and him alone.
        
        Don McAllister said this on March 21, 2011 at 10:03 am | Reply
        
        Don
        JUST TO add a bit more, what matters to God is not that we obey the law, But WHY we obey. This is the sanctifying work of the Holy spirit, not our own work.
        If the spirit leads someone to obey the sabbath, then we should not condemn them for doing so, But they also must not condemn others that have not been led by the Spirit to do this. That is why I Argued that this is not the mark of the beast, for not all people in their walk with the Lord will have been led by the spirit to that point.
        Our ultimate goal is to become a “New creation in Christ”, where there was no need for a Law written in stone only the words of God in communion with us.
        I personally have not yet been led by the Spirit to observe the seventh day sabbath, but that does not mean I will not someday. James has been led to that, and only God can know the motives in his heart for that. It is also not his duty to condemn others for not practicing the 7th day sabbath.
        There are certain things in our faith that we cannot compromise on. The trinity, the Divine nature of Jesus, Salvation by faith alone, our sinfullness, etc. then there are those things which we will have differences on. We must, for love’s sake, not lead another to stumble, so long as they do not compromise on the basics of the faith. Then it is our job to correct.
        My experiences in life has been, that those who lived a hard sinful life before their conversion, tend to turn toward God by becoming more legalistic in faith, while those brought up in the church during conversion, are Knocked down off their Podium of legalism. What matters to got is a humble spirit. For somepeople, zeal for abiding in the law is how they stay humble, for others, as with Paul, we must have a “thorn in our side” to keep us humble.
        
        dru said this on March 21, 2011 at 12:42 pm | Reply
        
        Hello Dru,
        
        Here is the problem with your response. The Holy Spirit is not going to lead a true believer to do what is contrary to the Word of God. The Scripture says that, no one will be justified by observing the law. The definition of “justified” in the Greek, is to be made right or to be made righteous. Since no one will be made righteous by observing the law, the Holy Spirit will never lead anyone to observe the Sabbath or any other part of the law for the purpose of obtaining eternal life. To try to obtain the kingdom of God through observing the law is contrary to the grace of God which comes through the shed blood of Christ and therefore, the Holy Spirit would never lead any believer in the direction of the law.
        
        Furthermore, I condemn no one, the word of God does. I am only proclaiming what his word says, which many seem to circumvent and ignore. When those Judiazers were trying to turn the church in Galatia back to those miserable principals of the law, Paul told them flat out, that if they reverted back to the law, then Christ would be of no value to them. He didn’t say, “Now we should not bother them about this, for the Holy Spirit may be leading them to do this.” As I said, the Holy Spirit will never lead a believer to do what is contrary to the word of God. We are also to contend for the truth of God’s word and that is what I am doing.
        
        We are saved by grace through faith and this not of ourselves, it is the gift of God, so that no one can boast. His grace is unmeritted favor, which means, you don’t deserve it, but you’ve got it. He did the saving and there is nothing we can do to earn it. And if you try to earn it, you do disgrace him who paid the penalty. Now just to be clear, if a person wants to observe the Sabbath or a feast because of his heritage, I see no problem with this. But, if they observe these things as a must for salvation, then it is a problem, because now you are trusting in your own works for salvation. Observing the law for salvation will keep you out of the kingdom of God.
        
        If people are teaching and living contrary to the word of God, then we who know the truth should proclaim the truth. And because we proclaim the truth, it does not mean that we are not humble. We cannot bend when it comes to the word of God, as people are bending all the time. So-called christians even bending to and embracing sexualal immorality, justifying it saying, “I’m a christian too and God doesn’t have a problem with me continuing in it.”
        
        I will say it again, if anyone is trusting in their own works and not looking solely at Christ’s finished work on the cross, according to the word of God, that person will not enter into the kingdom of God.
        
        If you pour new wine into an old wine skin, the new wine will burst the old wine skin and both will be ruined.
        
        Don McAllister said this on March 22, 2011 at 12:07 am
        
        Amen James on your discussion of the Sabbath back in 2011.
        
        jardalkal said this on October 8, 2015 at 4:25 pm | Reply
Hi Al,

Down here… You found it.

Hey Bud, I just responded to what it was that I believed that you were inferring to. Obviously we are experiencing technical difficulties and have a communication breakdown. 🙂
My knee jerk reaction is probably caused by a torn cartilage that has a mind of it’s own until it can be repaired with surgery. Until that happens, I apologize if it acts up once and awhile.

First of all, I think that where problems sometimes arise, is that since “the writer” has a top of mind awareness as to what it is that they are trying to convey, an assumption automatically takes place that what they had written will also be totally understood by the recipient.
I think we all, (including myself), have been guilty of doing that at one time or another.

Having now been provided with more specificity regarding what it is that you were trying to express, I think that I now have a better understanding of what that was.

Just to confirm that I now understand, in your question where you say in your above post, dated March 16th. @ 9:18 pm. “Just wanted to leave this question with you; If the Torah was done away with, where are the witnesses to this most major of events? Every one quotes Paul, but really no one else.” are you then saying that we don’t appear to have any substantiating evidence from any other of the apostles other than Paul?

If that indeed was the question that you were asking me, then I will try to answer it for you here.
Unfortunately however, I won’t be able to provide you with any supportive Biblical scripture, for it simply doesn’t exist.
All I can really do, is add further to what it is that Seppo has already stated above within his response.
I think that all I can do is to suggest that you really look at the full body of all that Paul has said.
Since you say that, ” Paul is one of the most learned and respected of the Apostles and I agree 100% with that.
I never even hinted at doing away with his writings and teachings. I fully embrace them.” Then I would wonder why it is that you happen to question what it is that he says about this particular topic? If in embracing everything else that he says, knowing in your heart through the Spirit, that he speaks the truth by the Spirit and not of himself, why would you question this aspect, and simply not accept it in faith?

In addressing some of your other comments;

I personally don’t believe that the “church” has misunderstood this message. I believe that what Paul expresses regarding the Torah is quite clear. I do agree with you however, that one of the worst decisions that the early church ever made, was the decision to distance itself from the Jewish believers. The knowledge that was lost by that decision can never be recovered, and is more than likely the cause of much of the discord that we all experience today. However again, that fact does not take away from the “point” of the message regarding what Paul had said about the Torah.

The Sabbath is still the Sabbath.

I believe the reason that Paul circumcised Timothy (ouch) was not because of a necessity to fulfill the Torah, but rather because in Timothy being circumcised, it would allow for both Paul, and Timothy to have more credibility within the Jewish community of the region. That appears to be quite clear by what is written in Acts 16:3.
The fact that it was decreed by the Jerusalem Council beforehand, that physical circumcision was not a necessity, further proves that this act that was performed on Timothy, was a particular exception, required for a particular occasion.

I would also agree that we should all attempt to possess a certain understanding of our roots as well. Since we are a grafted branch into those roots. (And I would hope that in my initial response to you of March 10 th. @ 3:48, demonstrates that I also attempt to possess (though perhaps rudimentary), a certain knowledge regarding the Jewish perspective as well.) Yet as I had stated in that above post, I truly believe with all my heart that prophetically speaking, the Mishkan was a foreshadowing, and represented the redemptive plan of God, that “culminated” in the revelation of Yeshua the Messiah as being the appointed Lamb of God. (ie; seh ha-Elohim.)
I believe totally, that it all has to do with Yeshua now. Nothing is required to add to, or maintain that finished work other than to abide with Him in relationship.

Take Care Al.
Blessings

Gregg said this on March 17, 2011 at 10:44 pm | Reply
Don
You put alot on the table to respond to, I only have time to comment on a few.
The day of the lLord described in the OT refers to the messiahs second coming in regards to Israel, as a fulfillment of covenents. while the NT describes the day of the Lord as the Rapture of the Church. The OT describes it as a day of Judgement, tempests, lightning and hailstones, etc. This is repeated in revalation as a clue to where the story goes back in time. So the seals will occur first, but this does not mean you have to have the seventh seal before the first trumpet can sound.
As for chapter 12, Was satan not defeated on the cross? Note that we have a transition at the end of chapter 11:19 describing the return of God’s prescence to the temple (ark of his covenent). I listed some passages above that referred to the tempest describing the Lords return as a tempest etc from the OT as well. read some of the other OT prophets and you will see this as well.

This backjumping in literature is quite a common practice. Let’s say, for example purposes only, God revealed to John the seals all seven of them. he went and wrote it down, then God showed him seven trumpets, and he wrote it down, The same with the vials. does this mean the one must be complete, for the other to take place? No, they are three distinct visions of the end times. It is now the readers job to be led by the spirit, and commen sense to figure out where they are in relation to one another. I ask you, try to read prophecy in this way, and you will see it come to life, It will not make you go to hell if you do it. Man however is often set in his ways (pride) that he cannot explore other ways of thinking. Isn’t that what describes human history. Gallileo was burned at stake for going against church Dogma.

As for the psalm 50 quotes. I Chron. 25:1-2 says Asaph, The author of that psalm, “…Who prophecied under the direction of the king (David).” 12 psalms are accredited to him, 50,73-83. We know that psalms were quoted at numerous times in prophecy, Jesus does this, Acts does, Paul does, Hebrews Does. So clearly we can see that there is a prophetic element to the Psalms. Read psalm 82 and tell me what war was Asaph referring to tha toccured before David’s time? Psalm 50:6 says “the heavens declare his righteousness for God himself is Judge.” So when is it that God himself will Judge those who “made a covenent with (him) by sacrifice.”? Verse 3 also talks of his return as a devouring fire, and a mighty tempest. Just read the psalm in light of being a jewish person at the time of David. They were required by law to offer sacrifice to the Lord, then read verse 8-10, 13-15. When is it then that our offering of thanksgiving is sufficient.

I invite you to Read these chapters, praying that the Holy Spirit will lead you, not your “own understanding”, You too then will see how chapter 50 refers to the mark of the beast.

I have also posted some links on “how does Gog and Magog Relate, That will explain some of these things better.

dru said this on March 18, 2011 at 2:22 pm | Reply
Not “links, But rather comments.

dru said this on March 18, 2011 at 2:24 pm | Reply
Don
I hope you find this. I think we are largely in agreement with each other. Couple of points though: the holy spirit does not lead us to break the law. I am not sure where you get that I say our works are required for salvation. I don’t think? I ever said this. The point I was merely trying to make is that some people are led by the Spirit to practice their faith in different ways. I, For example, as a Baptist believe in baptism by immersion, and will defend this till the end. That does not mean that i believe baptism is required for salvation because it is a work. Does it have role in our walk with Christ, yes.
The point i am making with regard to James is that he believes keeping the sabbath or not keeping it will be mark of the beast. I do not support this notion at all, and have held him to task on this. This does not mean I condemn him for observing it on saturday, Nor is this salvation dependent. He defends it though, as I would defend baptism by immersion. He has been led to observe this one part of the law. Simply put, I am merely trying to point out what is on the inside (motives,heart) is what matters. For example, I have been witness to pastors that look down on the members that do not go to church every week, yet they themselves are guilty of exulting themselves above the members(pride). Justification is by faith alone through grace alone, my point is that Sanctification is also by grace alone, It is not our work, it is God’s work in us through the Holy spirit.

If james agrees with these principles, which i think he does, if he is led to observe the seventh day as sabbath, then so be it. When he steps over the line when he says it is a requirement of salvation. Up to that point he can argue his point on that all he wants. I know there are equally as compelling arguements for the first day being the sabbath.

What many people miss, is that when one is justified, and they ,Let’s say, have aproblem with alcohol, when they are freed from this bond through Christ, this burden gets lifted from them, which tends to give them a zeal for being against any alcohol which may seem legalistic (works driven). Others, however may have no problem with alcohol, and drinking alcohol is not prohibited by law (drunkeness is), For this Christian to drink in front of that former alcoholic is not a responsible action on his part, for he is putting a stmbling block in front of the former alcoholic. Thus it is about loving one another that we do not condemn one another, nor put a stumbling block in their path.

Believing in the trinity and divinity of Jesus is not something Christians can compromise on. This is a belief and not a work, and is essential part of the redemption. If Jesus was not God, then there is no ability to have justification. I am pretty sure both you and James believe in this.

dru said this on March 22, 2011 at 1:02 am | Reply
- Hello again,
  
  First let me say that, I am glad that you got out of that narrow column that we were writing in, as it is too small to write in. I apologise if I misunderstood you, but it seemed as though you were supporting James belief regarding our being under the law. I understand what you are saying and my response was only to contend for the truth. My point was that, the Holy Spirit would not lead anyone to do what is contrary to the word of God and living under the law, that is, the need to perform it for the sake of salvation, as this is in opposition to God’s free gift of grace through the shed blood of Christ. God went through great lengths through Paul to make it know that the covenant in Christ’s blood made the previous covenant of the law obsolete. There is no salvation by observing the law. In fact, the promise of salvation by grace was introduced to Abraham 430 years before the law came into affect and the law was put into place until the seed of Abraham would arrive and usher in the orginal covenent, which is by grace through faith. As Scripture says, the law was put into place because of trespasses until Christ would come.
  
  The other problem, which is related to their desire to be under the law that is going on, are those who are slandering Paul, saying that he was a false apostle and a liar; yet, God’s word speaks against those who do so, calling them ignorant and unstable people and they do this to their own destruction. If someone has a different interpretation of say, when the resurrectin and catching away takes place or something of that nature, I don’t see this as eternal life threatening, but when someone is proclaiming and teaching that our salvation is dependant upon observing any part of the law, then I have problem with that. There is way too much information, mainly in the letters to the Romans and Galatians telling readers that, no one will be justified by observing the law, to believe anything else. It seems like these people do everything that they can to circumvent the truth, kind of like a defense lawyer tryiing to get rid of all the evidence, except in this case, they try to change the meaning of what is being said, siting spring festivals and such instead of recognizing that when Paul says “Law” he is speaking of the entire law of Moses, all of it!
  
  In short, anyone who is doing anything because they believe that it must be done to obtain or maintain salvation are attempting to earn it and they are not trusting in the Lord’s sacrifice as sufficient. He doesn’t need any help and we could do it no better. In fact, we fail at it. I wish I could get James and anyone else who is trusting in works to understand this, because the very thing that they are trusting in for salvation is the very thing that will keep them from obtaining it. If you have to earn it, then it is no longer a free gift. For the person who works for his wages, they are given as an obligation, but for the person who does not work, but trusts God who justifies the wicked without works, that person is credited with righteousness.
  
  In any case, I am relieved that you understand that we are not under the law, for the law kills. I have question that get right to the core of the issua and that is: If a person was to stand before the Lord and the Lord asked him, “For what reason should I let you enter the kingdom of God?” and the persons answer was anything but, “By your shed blood Lord,” then they would not enter in, because any other answer would infer personal efforts by works.
  
  Don McAllister said this on March 22, 2011 at 4:54 am | Reply
  - Don
    This is the simplicity of the Gospel and i couldn’t have said it better myself. Any body that adds or subtracts from this Gospel is doing so at detriment to themselves.
    
    After we become saved, there is our walk in Jesus we must contend with. I believe this is called progressive sanctification by theologians. Each of us is called to take this walk in a certain way, the goal being that we reach astate of communion with God, as Paul also calls it, A “new creation” in Christ. We choose to take this “walk” because this is the main benefit here on earth of our salvation. The only “sacrifices” we should be making at this time are those of thanksgiving, these are not a work, but rather an acknowledgement and appreciation for what Jesus has done through his blood and grace. It is the process by which we submit more and more of ourlives to the will of God. This is what the Epistle of James was talking about when he said Faith without works is dead. In other words salvation is not just a one time act and then we go back to our lives as usual, but rather it is a walk with God. This statement puts no condition on salvation, but rather leads us to Closer to God.
    
    We are dead to the law, But those that are not saved are still under the yoke it places on them, and it condemns them. For those that are saved, the law is merely a mirror that shows where we are in our walk with God. Obviously if we are lying, cheating and stealing in our workplace, we need reassess where we are in our walk with God.
    
    dru said this on March 22, 2011 at 11:36 am | Reply
  - Yes Don, we are saved by grace through faith and this is Salvation and it is covered in Leviticus 23 under Passover, Unleavened Bread and First Fruits and through baptism which is also a part of the Salvation process. And it stops here. This is called Sanctification or Jusitifcation. I forget which one.
    
    However we are Justified by our works and it is found under Pentecost in Leviticus 23. So if Sabbath keeping is a part of Justification then I am justified but if it a part of Sanctification which it is not then I am not sanctified I think I lost me on that one.
    
    The point I am making is that one is justification and the other one is Sanctification.
    
    The Second Coming in the year of Jubilee at the end of the jubilee year is Glorification.
    
    I am going to have to go back and study my Levitical 23 study on the Redemptive Story of Jesus Christ.
    Jardalkal@aol.com John Ashcraft. It is roughly 30 pages.
    
    jardalkal said this on October 8, 2015 at 4:56 pm | Reply
Hey Don, Gregg, & Dru;

Good to see that you are back Don. Hope all of you are doing well. If James doesn’t mind, just thought I would weigh in on your conversation. Specifically what Don replied to James.

James wrote;
“There is nothing in the New Testament that tells us that we are to abandon the commandments.”

Don’s Rebuttle;
“You obviously haven’t read Romans & Galations, because law being dead is the bulk of the conversation. But for the sake of brevity, here is one that says it all.”

The verses that you referenced to rebut James’ comments were Acts 15:1-11. Since this specific event “says it all”, maybe we can put some things to rest.

Acts 15
1And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
2When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.
3And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.
4And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.
5But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
6And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
7And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
8And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
9And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
10Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
11But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

At a quick glance, looks like you have a pretty strong position, Don. But let’s tear into it and see what is really being said here. Since the time that Moshe had received the Torah from Yah, it (the Torah) stood alone as Israel’s instructions for obedience to the Father. But over time, the ruling religious class of Scribes and Pharisees started doing the unthinkable. They started adding to the words of Yah and the Torah, which came to be known as the oral law. The Pharisees gave the Oral laws that they and the Scribes penned, the same weight as the written law that Moses received from Yah. They then required Israel to observe both equally without any distinction between the two. This is the yoke referred to in verse 10, the oral law.
Below are the words of Yahshua speaking to some of the religious ruling class;

Luke 11:46 (King James Version)
46And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.

Yahshua was not speaking of the original written Torah given to Moshe. You will never find Yahshua criticizing the Torah. In fact, just the opposite ( In the gospel of John, John declares that Yahshua is the Word and the Word is Yahshua. They are One. The only scripture at that time was the Torah, the Prophets, and the Psalms). The religious leaders had made the law so grievous that people lived in fear of it. It is said that keeping the Sabbath was so restrictive, given the oral law, the people were almost afraid to get out of bed, fearing they might break one of the laws that had been added on. Remember where it was said that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. It was a blessing for man not a burden. If you will note in the verse above, Yahshua says, YOU lade men with burdens, not Yah. This verse says the same thing as Acts 15:10 when Peter says why do YOU tempt God. This is all talking about the added requirements originated by the religious leaders, not the written Torah of Moshe.

If you will notice in Acts 15:5, it is a certain sect of the Pharisees that was requiring them to be circumcised and obey the law. I have touched on this before with you, but you evidently didn’t consider it. New Gentile converts were not required to be circumcised until they had a level of maturity in the Faith. The religious leaders had a hard time with that and wanted it done immediately.

Your reference to what James (the Apostle) said about abstaining from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, and from the meat of strangled animals, were initial restrictions until the New Gentile converts were grounded in the Faith. They took circumcision very seriously. Even in Israel, children were not circumcised at birth, but rather at the age of 12. They had to have a certain level of understanding into what they were doing. It was not meant to be just an automatic requirement. Man made it that way. Do you see the support from both the physical and the spiritual? Newly born babies weren’t circumcised until they had reached some level of maturity. The same with those having experienced the New Birth spiritually. Not until they had a certain level of maturity.

It is a given that salvation comes by the grace of Yah, through faith in Yahshua. Gregg, you have said previously that God does not need these things called the law (not an exact quote). You are right, we do. Yah gave them to us to help in our passage through this world. The Word says that HaSatan is as a roaring lion seeking who he can devour. The Word also says that when Yah speaks, it is in a still small voice. When we throw off the fence (Torah), that Yah has put around us, we become vulnerable to the attacks of the evil one. We are spiritual beings who live in a house of flesh. There are very few who discern things in the Spirit rather than the flesh. That which is outward is overpowering to most, which is why the church is in the shape it is today. They see the lion all around them, but can’t hear the voice of Yah. Salvation is a free gift, but the Torah works in conjunction with that. If you don’t agree with that, that is okay. But if I were you I would dig a little deeper to find the truth for yourself. But I also realize, that even if the truth smacked most Christians squarely between the eyes, the change required would keep them from making any adjustments. Gregg, this is what I meant by misunderstandings. We don’t understand the customs of the days we read about in the scriptures. We read scripture based on our limited understanding and reach wrong conclusions. That coupled with poor translations and we have quite a mess. All of you are making huge decisions based on limited knowledge. It shows by the verses you choose to prove your points.

One last thing about the scripture you referred to in Matthew 7:22-23;

Matthew 7:22-23 (King James Version)
22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Look at the last word in these verses. Iniquity is defined as lawlessness= without law=without Torah. This is an example of people doing their own thing and disregarding the things of Yah. It kind of describes a large part of the Christian church, don’t you think?

I don’t expect anyone to change their mind based on anything I have said. That will only come by revelation through Ruach HaKodesh.

I hope and pray only the best for you in the Messiah!!!

Al said this on March 22, 2011 at 5:41 pm | Reply
- to all
  ” on the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread (communion), Paul talked with them, intending to depart on th next Day.” Acts 20:7
  
  “One person esteems one day as better than another, While another esteems all days alike. EACH ONE should be fully convinced in his own mind.
  The one who observes THE DAY (Sabbath), observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, SINCE HE GIVES THANKS TO GOD, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and GIVES THANKS TO GOD.” Romans 14:5-6
  
  Romans 14:12 “So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.”
  
  “therefore let no one pass judgement on you In questions of food and drink, or with regard to festivals, or a newmoon, or a sabbath.” Col 2:16
  
  ” If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, Why, asif you were still alive in the world do you submit to regulations…23These have indeed an appearence of wisdom in promoting self made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgences of the flesh.” Col 2:20,23
  
  Just thought I would throw these verses out there, for those of you that choose to worship on the First day.
  
  Al
  Two points I would like to reiterate, The Law is mirror to those who are saved, but not a yoke. What God looks at is the heart. that was his Problem with the Jewish people, their motives were wrong in obeying the Law.
  I said with james once that what about a slave who is forced to work on saturday, will he be guilty of breaking the law, or accepting the mark of the beast?
  I’m not sure where you stand on these debates, but Christ came to “Fulfill the Law”. What does this mean to you?
  
  dru said this on March 22, 2011 at 8:42 pm | Reply
  - Dru, you need to look at Col 2:16 in a Jewish mindset. If you still want to be a hypocrite that is your business but you are of the Laidocian Church which Colissians 2:1 talks about.
    
    Col 2:1 For I would that ye knew what great conflict I have for you, and for them at Laodicea, and for as many as have not seen my face in the flesh;
    Rev 3:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;
    Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
    Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
    Rev 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
    Rev 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
    Rev 3:19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
    Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
    
    Dru I ask what Matthew 5:17-19 means to you.
    Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
    Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
    Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
    See, to me you are being the least in the Kingdom of Heaven.
    
    You worship 17 but you leave out and dismiss 18 therefore you are to be the least in the Kingdom of Heaven.
    
    Foundational statements for “Rightly Dividing”
    1. God never changes! He is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
    2. God’s Word is true!
    3. God’s Word NEVER contradicts itself! If WE think it does, WE do not understand it in the correct light!
    4. God Cannot Lie!
    5. Satan is a liar and the father of all lies.
    6. Satan’s ultimate goal is to pervert God’s Will and turn his people from Him.
    
    We all agree on these fundamental and foundational statements.
    
    Now let’s look at the teachings of Jesus concerning the law.
    
    Jesus says: Mat_5:17-19 KJV Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
    
    God never changes.
    Jesus affirms the law, torah, of the Old Testament!
    God’s Word is true!
    This does not go against the only scripture available, the Old Testament
    God’s Word NEVER contradicts itself!
    If Jesus taught against the law it would go against Deu_18:14-20. If it was understood that Jesus was saying that we don’t have to follow the law, then those that heard it were commanded to kill him.
    Deu_18:20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
    God Cannot Lie!
    If Jesus taught against the law it would either make “the Law” a lie, or Jesus a liar.
    Satan is a liar and the father of all lies.
    To use the word “fulfill” to say that we are not to follow the law because Jesus fulfilled it. Not only is this a lie, it doesn’t even make sense. Matt_5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
    Also to fulfill refers to the first and second coming and to the end of the Millennium.
    Satan’s ultimate goal is to pervert God’s Will and turn his people from Him.
    If Jesus had done away with “the Law” and contradicted Deu_18:14-20, Satan would have the Ultimate perversion of the will of God!
    
    Point 2: “Even though Jesus ‘Came not to destroy the Law’ – by fulfilling it, he did away with the need to follow it.”
    “Jesus quoted a Hebrew idiom when He said He came not to destroy the Law or the prophets. He was using a familiar phrase easily understood during Biblical times. Jesus had been accused of misinterpreting the Torah, yet He said that He was actually rightly and correctly teaching it. Traditional Jewish writings support this idiom, “Should all the nations of the world unite to uproot one word of the Law, they would be unable to do it,” Leviticus Rabbah 19:2. To understand the meaning of this verse, everything hinges on the meaning of the words “destroy” and “fulfill” in verse 17. What does Jesus mean by “destroy the Law” and “fulfill the Law”? “Destroy” and “fulfill” are technical terms used in rabbinic argumentation. When a sage felt that a colleague had misinterpreted a passage of Scripture, he would say, “You are destroying the Law!” Needless to say, in most cases, his colleagues strongly disagreed. What was “destroying the Law” for one sage was “fulfilling the Law” (correctly interpreting Scripture) for another,” wrote Bivin and Blizzard in their book Understanding the Difficult Words of Jesus (Yahshua).
    
    Does this explanation of this statement fit within the context? Yes, extremely well. Let’s look at the next few verses:
    Mat_5:21 KJV Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
    
    Mat_5:27-28 KJV Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: (28) But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
    
    Each one of these examples is a correct interpretation of the Old Testament Law – the Torah. He was giving Full interpretation of the Scriptures. He is teaching intent or deeper meaning of the Law not the letter of the Law.
    
    Let’s look at what Paul says in: Rom_10:1-5 KJV Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. 5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
    
    God never changes.
    This appears that Paul says that Christ does away with the law.
    God’s Word is true!
    How can this be true when Mat_5:17-19 appears to say the opposite?
    God’s Word NEVER contradicts itself!
    This appears to contradict the teachings of Jesus himself, in Mat_5:17-19
    God Cannot Lie!
    If all scripture is inspired of God it appears that someone is lying.
    
    What will help us to resolve these seemingly insurmountable roadblocks?
    Context
    Let’s look earlier in Paul’s letter to the Romans:
    Rom_2:13 KJV For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
    Rom_3:20 KJV Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
    Rom_3:31 KJV Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
    Rom_7:7 KJV What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
    
    Lets also look at Paul’s background:
    Act_22:3 KJV I am verily a man which am a Jew, born in Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, yet brought up in this city at the feet of Gamaliel, and taught according to the perfect manner of the law of the fathers, and was zealous toward God, as ye all are this day.
    Act_23:6 KJV But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.
    
    Gamaliel bears the title “Rabban”, a rabbinic title given to the Nasi (head) of the Sanhedrin.
    
    Many believe that under Gamaliel’s teaching that Paul was being groomed to be the next head of the Sanhedrin. Gamaliel’s students would know the Law (the first five books of the Old Testament) frontwards and backwards and have the entire Old Testament memorized.
    
    So, Paul had the best teacher, the best upbringing, and was extremely knowledgeable regarding matters of the law and anything in the entire Old Testament.
    
    Now let’s look at the textural contest. Rom_10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
    
    The word that is the hinge point of this verse is “end”
    Strong’s – end G5056 τέλος telos tel’-os
    From a primary word τέλλω tellō (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly the point aimed at as a limit, that is, (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination [literally, figuratively or indefinitely], result [immediate, ultimate or prophetic], purpose); specifically an impost or levy (as paid): – + continual, custom, end (-ing), finally, uttermost. Compare G5411.
    
    Let’s also look at one way that the word τέλος was translated from Hebrew in the Septuagint (the Greek translation of the Old Testament by 70 Hebrew scholars approximately 300 BC.)
    
    H8548 תּמיד tâmîyd taw-meed’
    From an unused root meaning to stretch; properly continuance (as indefinite extension); but used only (attributively as adjective) constant (or adverbially constantly); elliptically the regular (daily) sacrifice: – alway (-s), continual (employment, -ly), daily, ([n-]) ever (-more), perpetual.
    
    We are faced with two diametrically opposed definitions of the word “τέλος”. One is: to limit, conclusion, and termination, the other is: to stretch, continuance, and constant. When we are “rightly dividing the word of truth” from this passage which definition agrees with our foundational statements?
    
    God never changes.
    To limit, conclusion, and termination. This must be rejected because it makes the law of no effect
    To stretch, continuance, and constant. This is consistent with the Old Testament teaching on the law
    God’s Word is true!
    To limit, conclusion, and termination. . This would make the Old Testament be a lie
    To stretch, continuance, and constant. This is consistent with the Old Testament teaching on the law and it makes the passage make better sense given the context
    God’s Word NEVER contradicts itself!
    To limit, conclusion, and termination. This contradicts the earlier passages written by Paul in Romans and the entire Old Testament teaching on the Law
    To stretch, continuance, and constant. No contradiction at all.
    God Cannot Lie!
    To limit, conclusion, and termination. Jesus, Paul, and all the other inspired writers of scriptures would have lied for this use to be true.
    To stretch, continuance, and constant. completely consistent with other teachings given the full context.
    Satan is a liar and the father of all lies.
    To limit, conclusion, and termination. This plants the seed that we don’t need to follow the instructions of God
    To stretch, continuance, and constant. This is the definition that Satan DOES NOT want to be recognized
    Satan’s ultimate goal is to pervert God’s Will and turn his people from Him.
    To limit, conclusion, and termination. This definition that has led to blasphemous doctrine that has robbed God’s people from his blessings.
    To stretch, continuance, and constant. What better way for Satan to pervert the scriptures to mean the opposite of what was intended.
    
    I hope that you have seen that Satan has had a hand in keeping God’s people from knowing his truth. But you will say that this goes against everything that we have always been taught. Let me leave you with two quotes:
    
    “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it.”
    Joseph Goebbels, leader of the Nazi Party’s propaganda unit.
    
    Jer_16:19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ends of the earth, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.
    
    John Ashcraft Jardalkal@aol.com
    
    jardalkal said this on October 8, 2015 at 5:31 pm | Reply
- Hi Al,
  
  Man, I have to disagree with you here. I think that you are really reaching by saying that all they were referring to during the Jerusalem Council was the Torah she’bal peh, (Oral Torah, or Talmud) and not also to what it is that Moses commited to writing in the Torah scroll, or Torah shebikhtav.
  I think that 2 Corinthians 3:3 pretty well dismisses that theory. “Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of “stone”, but in fleshy tables of the heart.”
  (Quotations mine) The Talmud was never written in, or on stone.
  
  Actually, the Talmud has always been understood within Rabbinical Judaism to be given to Moses at the same time that the tablets of stone were given at Mount Sinai. Therefore they would go hand and hand together and not be considered to be separate theological ideologies. I could expound on this further for you, however my point is, if you are using the Talmud to substantiate your position, you are applying it within your argument incorrectly. For if one has to go, then the other has to go with it.
  
  Where you go into speaking as Christ being the word, I think that you are simply taking a literal point of view and associating the “word” as being solely limited to that of the Torah. Where as in Christ being the “word”, it can also represent the limitless Right Hand of God that creates all things as the very word of the Father. John 1:1-3 would seem to substantiate my point.
  
  Where you say, ” If you will notice in Acts 15:5, it is a certain sect of the Pharisees that was requiring them to be circumcised and obey the law. I have touched on this before with you, but you evidently didn’t consider it. New Gentile converts were not required to be circumcised until they had a level of maturity in the Faith. The religious leaders had a hard time with that and wanted it done immediately.”
  Could you please point out to me as to where it states anywhere within scripture, that circumcision was/is required when a Christian attains a certain level of spiritual maturity?
  
  Where you say, ” They took circumcision very seriously. Even in Israel, children were not circumcised at birth, but rather at the age of 12.” What the heck are you talking about here? Have you never read Leviticus 12: 3?
  “And on the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.” That doesn’t sound like they waited till they were 12 years old to me.
  
  Where you say,” Gregg, you have said previously that God does not need these things called the law (not an exact quote). You are right, we do.” Sorry Al, but I believe that the law is just as ineffective for me as it was for the original individuals that were burdened by it. I place all of my trust and faith in the finished work of Yeshua, and I’ll take the convictions of the Holy Spirit’s guidance in my circumcised heart, over the law any day.
  
  Blessings
  
  Gregg said this on March 22, 2011 at 10:36 pm | Reply
  - Hey Gregg,
    
    Thanks for pointing out the error I made on the circumcision analogy. I was thinking of the coming of age for children. Unwittingly put the two together. Sorry about that.
    
    Your reference to 2 Corinthians 3:3 is taken from
    Jeremiah 31:33 (King James Version) (though there are others)
    
    33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
    
    This doesn’t speak to the nullification of Torah, written or oral, and neither does the verse you mentioned in Corinthians. It does speak to Yah writting the Torah in our hearts, through the blood sacrifice of Yahshua.
    
    There would be no problem with the Oral Law if the Rabbi’s had not perverted it and elevated it above the written Torah. The written Torah had been drastically altered by the Rabbi’s. Sounds a lot like the Catholic Church. You know, about being infalliabe and that they were the only ones who could interpret scripture. With all that said, there was much of the Oral Law that was in harmony with the written Torah. Do you think Yahshua would have had the intense confrontations with the Rabbi’s, if they had been following the written Torah? NO!!! There would have been no need for that. So because the Oral and the written are theologicaly the same, the Rabbi’s perverting of parts of the Oral law, requires that the written Torah be throw out also? Regardless of what the Rabbi’s say about this, that never happened. Yah is in the business of cleansing that which is His. He doesn’t just toss something out because man handled it with contempt.
    
    As far as circumcision being performed after a certain period of time; new converts in the time of the Apoostles were discipled. They didn’t just say the sinners prayer and go about their business. They were taught and warned about the cost of their profession of faith in the Messiah. They were watched over and taught by those of the faith. The reason, as I understand it, was to make sure they were serious about the committment they were making and not just emotionally involved. The circumcision took place at some point after. The scriptures do not detail all the customs of the day. That is my understanding of how all of this worked to a greater or lesser degree.
    
    I see us as brothers in the Messiah, while having very fundamental differences. I sense tha you see me as a poor soul bound up in religious works, missing the whole point of Yahshua’s gift of salvation. Putting myself under the law and basically dishonoring the price the Master paid for my salvation. But I will tell you, it is not that. I know who I am now in the Messiah, where I am going, and what I am to be doing while on the way. Salvation through the blood of Yahshua and the Torah are one. If you try and separate the two, you end up with one or the other, bascially incomplete, and our vision is impaired. The Torah and Yahshua do not conflict with each other, but rather together they become complete in our lives. Dru, if you are reading this, that is what the word FULFILL means. To complete something, to make it whole and full. There is no hint of destruction or nullification of anything. All that I can tell you, is that when Elijah comes, he will prepare the way and make the path straight for Messiah. I sometimes wonder if the chruch will even know who the 144,ooo are when they come. There message will not be what the church is expecting!! I am sure this will get a very unfavorable reponse, but that is okay.
    
    Be blessed in the Messiah
    
    Al said this on March 23, 2011 at 9:05 pm | Reply
    - Hello again Al
      A couple of points I would like to make.
      You quote Jeremiah above. “I will put My law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts”
      This is what I believe is the fulfillment of the law. As I believe we are on the same page on.
      
      This is part of the sanctifying work of God which he does through grace in us, not through our own effort (We can’t take credit for it). Sounds to me like this is the part you disagree with me on?
      The Pharisees in the New Testament were Good at “apearing” to abide by the Law. But Jesus took them to task on this in Matthew chapter 23. I will not write it down here, but will highlight some verses:
      
      2. “The scribes and Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat 3. so practice and observe whatever they tell you, but not what they do. for they preach, but do not practice.”
      
      You might say that these two verses support your position that the pharisees were breaking the law, which to a degree is true. But if you read a little farther, The sin they were guilty of breaking was the original sin of Adam.
      
      6.” And they love their place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the Synagogues 7. and greetings in the marketplaces and being called Rabbi by others. 8.But you (Future Christians in the crowd) are not to be called Rabbi, for you have one teacher, and you are all brothers. 9. and call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father who is in Heaven.” (this is a reference to the restored relationship with God they will have through the Blood of Jesus taking away the sin Of Adam) He then Concludes, 12. “whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.”
      
      Then he goes into the seven woes to the pharisees. 13. But woe to you, scribes and pharisees, Hypocrites! For you shut the Kingdom of heaven in People’s faces. For you neither enter yourself nor allow those who would enter go in.” They make it impossible for people to get in by the intense burden of the Law. (all Law)
      In verse 23, Jesus then explains what he means. “(you) Neglect the weightier matters of the Law: Justice and mercy and faithfulness. These you ought to have done without neglecting the others. (Covenent and dietary laws)”
      
      Question for you Al, where do justice, mercy and faithfullness fit into the Law of Moses? The Pharisees were doing what was written in the law, but not with the right intentions (heart). When Man abides by the law of his own accord (work), He is saying “I am in control of my life and do not need God”. When man is living by the law, through the grace and work of God in their lives, It is counted as righteousness towards them. In other words, the work of God through the spirit is counted as OUR righteousness. This truly is grace at work in our lives. In our church as a child we used to have a greeting that we would say to each other. “please be patient, God isn’t finished with us yet” Forcing the law on people before God has done His work in us is akin to “shutting the Kingdom of heaven.” You are guilty then of the original sin of Adam when you look down on those who choose to let God write the law in their hearts. If you are guilty of the Original sin of Adam, then you have not been redeemed by the blood of Jesus. You cannot show Justice toward someone if you have not been shown Justice by God, Nor can you know what real Mercy is if God has not been merciful in your life, and until you live by faith in the ability of Jesus blood to impute all of your sins, you will not know of his faithfulness and Love.
      
      dru said this on March 24, 2011 at 12:39 am | Reply
    - Hi Al and all,
      
      So, here’s the bottom line Al that will get through all the circumventing of God’s word. If you stand before Christ and he was to ask you the reason why you should be allowed into the kingdom of God, what would your answer be? The only answer should be “Because Lord, you shed your blood for me.” Anything added on to that in order to take credit for salvation and you’re not getting in! In other words,if you start rattling off the fact that you kept his Sabbath on Saturday, kept the feasts, abstained from certain foods, fed and clothed the poor or claim any other work for obtaining salvation, that person will not enter the kingdom of God. The only answer should be, the shed blood of Christ. Christ met the righteous requirments of the law fulfilling them perfectly and then God nailed the covenant of the law to the cross, which was our school-master until Christ would come, as these were a shadow of Jesus who was to come.
      
      Again I ask, was Abraham credited with righteousness because he obeyed that law or by faith? It was by faith alone that he was credited with righteousness, without works. For he was credited with righteousness because he settled it in his heart that God was able to do what he promised.
      
      Christ fulfilled the requirments of the law and we follow Christ. The law has died to as and for those who are not under the law, there is no transgression. By nailing the law to the cross, Christ disarmed the powers of darkness. We trust in God who justifies the wicked through the shed blood of Christ alone without works.
      
      dmcal52 said this on March 24, 2011 at 2:27 am | Reply
      - Since you do not have the law, then you now have lawlessness, therefore you can keep on sinning and do all your abominations. So now you hate God to His face. So now you break 1050 laws daily because you have grace.
        
        That goes against scripture 100% and the lake of fire and brimstone are at the door to devour you. You Christian do not understand the Bible so you are totally lost.
        
        Mattityahu (Matthew 5:17-19)
        17. Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfil.
        18. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished.
        19. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
        
        |3543| Do think |3361| not |3754| that |2064| I came |2647| to annul |3588| the |3551| Law |3588| or |3588| the |4396| Prophets. |3756| not |2064| I did come |2647| to annul, |0235| but |4137| to fulfill.
        18. |0281| truly |1063| For |3004| I say |5213| to you, |2193| – |0302| Until |3928| pass away |3588| the |3772| heavens |2532| and |3588| the
        |1093| earth, |2503| iota |1520| one |2228| or |3391| one |2762| point
        |3364| in no way |3361| – |3928| will pass away |0575| from |3588| the
        |3551| Law, |2193| – |0302| until |3956| all things |1096| occur.
        
        Gk 4137 to fill, has filled, filled, supply abundantly or fully, impart richly, imbue with, to be filled, full, to be fully supplied, to abound unto all fullness, to complete, to fulfill or accomplish a prophecy, to be fulfilled, accomplished, to have been accomplished, bring to a full end, to ended, to finish, to fill out, to make perfect, to accomplish an end., to be made full, to intoxicate, to crave, to satiate, to conclude, to execute, to perform,, to ratify, to make authoritative.
        
        In Greek, we have Yeshua categorically stating that he did not come to abolish the Law or the Prophets, but to fulfill. Now if one really wants to argue a point in English, that the word “fulfill” in this context means “to terminate or bring to a complete end,” then it stands to reason that the argument must include not just the Law, but also the Prophets. If that is true, He fulfilled 800 prophecies of His first and second coming at His first coming. We would have no earth right now. The Millennium would have ceased 1000 years ago, we would be spirits in a new heaven and a new earth. There would be peace world-wide, we wouldn’t need jobs, and all our necessities would be met by God. Meat and food would be given freely by God. Our clothing would not wear out. We would have no infirmities to speak of. (There are still 500 prophecies to be fulfilled at His second coming).
        In other words, If the Mosaic Torah is fulfilled and essentially not needed anymore, then also the words of the Prophets are fulfilled and essentially not needed anymore. This means that whatever the Prophets of the Hebrew Scriptures spoke about, it was all fulfilled; there is no more to look forward to in a culmination of any more of their words, because Yeshua satisfied all. If so, then there is this issue of Yeshua’s next set of words:
        18. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished.
        19. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
        As of the writing of this paragraph, we still have a physical heaven and a physical earth. Therefore, based on Yeshua’s words, the written Torah also must still be with us. But even moreso, Yeshua spoke rather forcefully, warning us that anyone who annuls one of the least of YHVH’s eternal commandments (that includes the Sabbath) that one will be least in the coming Messianic kingdom. The subject of annulment of the Torah (God’s Biblical Instructions) goes back to the passage of Deuteronomy 4:1-2.
        1. And now, O Israel, hearken unto the statutes and unto the ordinances, which I teach you, to do them; that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which Jehovah, the God of your fathers, giveth you. 2. Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish from it, that ye may keep the commandments of Jehovah your God which I command you.
        Nonetheless, I think one the most astounding statements that Yeshua made in support of the written Torah is in these words:
        Matt 5:20. (Hebrew idiom) For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven. Righteousness here = giving more in almsgiving than that of the Pharisees if they do not want to miss God’s righteousness (salvation)
        
        Remember, I told you that the scribes and Pharisees had instituted a “new and improved” system for understanding and applying the Torah. Essentially they succeeded in negating what Moses taught by “repairing” the content of the written Law, so as to retrofit it to their way of thinking through Pharisaic halacha, in the sense that the Torah would now require their “expert” interpretations and applications. The Pharisees believed in only one authority—themselves.
        As they believed, only they had enough of a superior learning to interpret the Torah and apply its words. Thus, through their retrofit of sorts, the scribes and Pharisees were able to blow a breath of their fresh air into that “old” Law of Moses. By majority consensus, they simply agreed that it needed to be done and thus seated themselves into the “chair” of Moses and took authority. By this, you could say that they started “whacking away” at the Torah of Moses like one takes a sickle and cuts down standing fields of grain. By doing this, the scribes and Pharisees had thus successfully supplanted the written covenant with an oral law, supposedly a unique second revelation given to Moses at the same time that the written Law was given. The truth is, the scribes and Pharisees were guilty of decimating and annulling the words of Moses, leading Yeshua to say some very strong words in defense of his position. From Yeshua’s perspective, one could only enter the Kingdom of Heaven if one was more righteous than his rivals. Thus Matthew 5:17 reads in Greek:
        Do not think I come to abolish the Law or the Prophets, I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
        This being said, let us move on to look at the words in Hebrew. Pey resh resh means to break, to divide, to frustrate. This word is often used in conjunction with a covenant or agreement. The Lord warned the Israelites what would happen if they broke the covenant with Him (Lev 26:15); and pledged to them He would not break it (Lev 26:44).
        The idea of Matthew 5:17 is to have a right interpretation of a biblical verse. If a passage of the Torah were wrongly interpreted, it would destroy the Torah, whereas if one succeeded in preserving the original intent of a verse, it established of fulfilled it.
        
        On Matthew 5:17, he was saying in today’s terms:
        Do not think that I came to loosen the Law or the Prophets, I did not come to loosen, but to provide a proper interpretation of them.
        He did not come to unravel the Torah. He came to set it on a firm foundation, without changes as the scribes and Pharisees were endlessly doing. Confidently, I think the scribes and Pharisees, who heard Yeshua teaching on the subject, were forced in their own minds to face their crimes, that of adding to the Law.
        
        For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass away from the law, till all things be accomplished.
        The “jot” refers to the “Yod.”
        The Greek term “tittle” is the Hebrew term “tag” (“ah”) or “tagim” (plural), which refers to a crownlet that decorates seven letters of the Hebrew Alef-Beit. Interestingly, for a little tangent, these crownlets are referred to in mystical Judaism as “tongues of fire.” Also, these tittles refer to the past, present, and future.
        
        jardalkal said this on October 8, 2015 at 9:00 pm | Reply
    - Al, many of the Jewish Messianics may be of the144,000. Ijust found out 2 months ago that I am an Ashkenazi Jew. John Ashcraft. I have been kicked out of more churches than you can count on one hand because of my Jewishness.
      Jardalkal@aol.com Jesus in 2015-2017.
      
      jardalkal said this on October 8, 2015 at 5:47 pm | Reply
- Al
  Sorry, i did not have much time above to finish.
  Psalm 73:1-3 Truly God is Good to Israel, to those who are PURE IN HEART. 2. But as for me, my feet had almost stumbled, my steps had nearly slipped. 3. For I was envious of the arrogant, when I saw THE PROSPERITY OF THE WICKED.” Are the wicked in this passage Breakers of the Law? The author says he almost stumbled from being pure in Heart. Verses 4-9 describe these “wicked people” and their wickedness. Then verse 10 “confuses” the matter saying “Therefore His people turn back to them, and FIND NO FAULT IN THEM.” If the Jewish people knew the law, how is it that they found no fault in these Wicked refered to here?
  Verses 21-23 then discuss the Psalmists own situation: “When my soul was embittered, when i was pricked in heart, I was bruitish and ignorant; I was like a beast toward you. Nevertheless, I am continually with you; you hold my right hand.” So Then, this Psalmist showed that in his righteous indignation, God was with him.
  Basically, this psalmist is making a contrast between wickedness, and being pure in heart. Though the sin of the wicked may not be visible, (they abide by the law), because they do it with a proud and boastful heart it is counted as wickedness by God. But because the psalmist was “pure in Heart” his apparent sinfulness was counted as righteousness by God.
  Was this psalmist considered Pure in heart because of his works? no, But he was found righteous by God’s grace. Just as the sacrifices of the Jewish people were not in and of themselves enough to atone for sin. The sacrifices were accepted by God when the people were repentent and not proud (AKA Pure in heart Vs Wicked)
  So long as Man believes that they have any shot of salvation by doing works they are deceiving themselves, and are guilty of the sin of pride (being like unto God). Any “addition” to God’s Grace is wicked in his eyes. This is the original sin that Adam and Eve committed. They were deceived into it by Satan by saying they would be “like unto God”. It was from the tree of “the knowledge of Good and Evil” that they ate from. Sounds an awful lot like the law and legalism. This is the one sin that God redeems us from, that allows us to be “pure in heart”. This is the One sin, that no work we do can take away from us. Though we follow the letter of the Law, It is only God’s grace that can remove this from our hearts. This is the “instantaneous sanctification” which theologians talk about. This is what makes our conversions seem like a dramatic change, It is like throwing away our very selves.
  
  “progressive sanctification” is what takes place in our walk with God. This is after the conversion and is done by the grace of God through the holy spirit. Note that no where is the individual responsible for this work. If we force ourselves to follow a list of laws, is that then not us relying on ourselves, instead of God to sanctify, hence we are again falling to our sin of pride. In due time, however, God will make us into a “new Creation” in Christ, But we must, As the old saying goes, “let go and let God.”
  
  My personal experiences in life are similar to this, in that I went from an ultra strict legalistic church, to one that was more in line with these beliefs. It was a wonderful moment of growth in Christ, for me as well as my family. Soon, however my reliance on the law and my works came to the forefront. it was not until i was knocked down off my podium that my Relationship with God began to grow again, and he began to truly control my life. The times that God is distant, have always been times in my life that i have relied on my good works, rather than submitting to God’s will.
  
  I suspect, James had a similar such experience in his move away from Catholocism. It is not even the church we belong to that makes our faith right. This is why i cannot condemn people for being catholic, but will condemn the institution, Nor will i condemn the individual for being a “seventh dayer” but may criticize the motive for the belief. So if he does it in “honor of the Lord” Romans 14:6, Then what right do i have to criticize him for doing so? So long as he doesn’t say this is condition of salvation.
  
  dru said this on March 23, 2011 at 1:02 am | Reply
Hi AL,
Thanks for your excellent insight into the scriptures above. Over the years I have often gone to bible study websites to explore various scriptures that people have quoted to prove the law is dead. In every case (so far) I have discovered that there is a “back-story” going on that once put in proper perspective nullifies their claims. It often takes a bit of study to extract the truth but I urge everyone to check into such claims very carefully before deciding what exactly they believe. As a former catholic I have a lot of experience in rejecting former beliefs. Many of you will agree that they are the apostate church referred to as the whore of Babylon. Babylon being all of the man-made, non-biblical elements that have infiltrated the churches of today. I believe it has been Satan’s primary goal to get Christians to reject God’s laws and commandments. He wants man to sin which is offensive to God. Therefore he will try to spread false teachings to that end, but he is very smart and has found clever ways to misinterpret the Word in addition to introducing pagan practices into the church. He considers Sunday to be his day of worship – his followers admit that and he is doing his best to get Avery Christian to worship on his day rather than the true sabbath. He has succeeded quite well, don’t you think?
Revelation says that the whole world (of God’s people) will worship the beast. They will have his mark. Satan already has the world fooled, and even justifying his mark. Revelation even warns that those who do not keep the commandments will have the mark. Three times in fact, but all but a few just ignore the verses. Instead they wait for a revolution in the world banking system that will never come (unless Satan has control of the banking system). I find it a little funny that they are all abuzz about how they plan to move to the country and grow a garden so they will have food when the RFID chip becomes mandatory. They plan to go into hiding so they can escape the wrath of the antichrist. They are willing to go to extreme difficulties to avoid the mark, when all they really have to do is honor the true sabbath. How hard is that? Piece of cake. But some think they would offend Jesus by doing so. They would prove their loyalty by ignoring the law. Doesn’t make sense to me.
Guess we will have to agree to disagree. Time will tell.

James Giordano said this on March 22, 2011 at 8:36 pm | Reply
- James
  I like the reference to “back story” above. They call this context.
  
  I Tried to explain my beliefs in my comments to Al above in the context of the whole biblical epic. Curious to see your comments. (It is difficult to put this into only acouple of paragraphs.)
  
  dru said this on March 23, 2011 at 1:23 am | Reply
- Hi James,
  
  Revelation 14:9,10
  
  “If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, he, too will drink of the wine of
  God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath.”
  
  How do you jump from mark on the forehead, or hand to Sunday worship is the mark?
  
  Leatherneck said this on March 23, 2011 at 1:26 am | Reply
  - You’re Exactly right Leatherneck! And their answer is arrived at by complete assumption on their part. The verse is meant to be read as literal, but as is the problem with so many, they symbolize what is meant to be literal. And therefore, the burden of proof is on them, because the fact is that, the verse is literal in what it is saying. Since it is stated that without the mark no one will be able to buy or sell, then we know that this has to do with crediting and debiting ones bank account, because buying and selling is credit and debit. They say that the right hand represents “Action” and the “Forehead” represents the mind as in “Making a descision” and viola! You magically have the mark of the beast by observing the Sabbath on Sunday. The system to be used is already in place, which is being able credit and debit ones bank account using a debit card via computer transaction. Take it a step further and bring in the computer chip that does the same thing as the debit card and there you have it. The system to perform the transactions is already here, it’s just the key that allows one to credit and debit his account that will change and that being from cards with strips to subdermal computer chips. The very fact that the world is already manufacturing subdermal computer chips for multiple applications should be enough to show the significence in relation to God’s word regarding the mark of the beast. This is exactly why the world is moving toward making cash and checks obsolete. Eventually, credit and debit cards will also become obsolete, leaving only that mark, which is how people will be forced to receive it. After all, if that mark is eventually the only way that people will be able to buy and sell, they are either going to have to receive it or refuse it, because there will be no other options. And the only people who would refuse it would be those saints of God during that time, otherwise, without the mark one would not be able to buy food, gas, pay a mortgage or even have a job and that because the payment for your work will no longer be represented in physical paper money, but by digital numbers in a virtual bank account. So the mark is two fold, to be able buy and sell and to give worship to that beast. The way in which he receives worship is because it is his mark that will be the only valid means of buy and selling and therefore, in order to be able to continue doing that, one must receive his mark. They will receive it instead of having a testimony for Christ and the word of God. In essence, they will be loving their lives more than Christ by receiving the mark, instead of losing their lives for his name sake and the word of God.
    
    But deternming what the mark of the beast is should be the least of their concerns, because by believing that salvation is by observing the law, as Paul says, they have been alienated from Christ. The other thing is that, they don’t believe that Paul’s letters are God inspired and therefore, they don’t carry any Scriptural weight. But God forsaw this ahead of time and through Peter, identified them as ignorant and unstable men who distort Paul’s writings, which are considered as Scripture and this to their own destruction.
    (2 Pet.3:14-16)
    
    Don McAllister said this on March 23, 2011 at 3:13 am | Reply
    - Don
      Read my comment to James below. I am curious to hear your thoughts regarding this.
      
      dru said this on March 23, 2011 at 1:00 pm | Reply
As you know, I am a logical thinker, and to me the whole chip idea doesn’t add up
I can’t figure out why God would be so angry if we change from a magnetic strip on a card to a subdermal chip.
Let’s say I am saved and have the testimony of Jesus Christ, and the law is void. I decide to use the chip so I might stay alive and continue to preach the word of God to those who are lost. There is no law against the chip in the bible, so I am fine, right?
Or will my bank tell me that by installing the chip I must swear an oath to Satan and reject Jesus Christ? That was the plot of the movie “Left Behind” so maybe that is what you believe will happen. So the antichrist under Satan’s power will force us at gunpoint (sorry, the axe(?)) to worship the devil or else we can’t get our bank chip? Will Satan be content with forced worship that is truly meaningless? Makes no sense.
If Satan wants people to reject God all he has to do is get them to reject His commandments. He also wants them to worship on his satanic day – Sunday. Now that makes sense to me.
Jesus taught in parables so only His elect would understand Him. His Revelation is also couched in symbolism – practically all of it in fact. It is why there are so many wildly different interpretations. I believe this is by design. I believe it is a test. God has always tested His people, usually finding them wanting in some respects. The mark will be a test, but of what? Have you ever seen such a crazy test before in the bible? Where is the “type” or forerunner of the mark? I can’t find the chip anywhere in the bible or in history.
But history shows us that the catholic church murdered tens of millions for refusing to stop Judaizing and to switch to Sunday worship. Hey, guess what? It was the exact same beast (the Vatican) and the exact same woman (church). And the 5th seal tells those martyrs that they must rest yet a short time before their deaths will be avenged (the Vatican will be destroyed).
Those out there who believe the “Left Behind” scenario are in for a big disappointment. None of it will happen. No antichrist, no 70th week of Daniel, no chip, no rapture.
Just a simple test. Honor the sabbath of God or honor the sabbath of Satan.
Sounds more like something God would do, at least to me.
Speaking of crazy things, look at all the nutty things that the recent super-moon has ccaused. Wild, huh?
(Just trying to keep on topic here…)
🙂

James Giordano said this on March 23, 2011 at 5:39 am | Reply
- Hi James,
  
  I wish that you could truly understand what is being said regarding the beast and his mark. The concept is that by making obsolete all other methods of buying and selling, people will be forced to receive his mark and that because there will be no other way to do buisness and survive. Jesus said, if you love your life you will lose it, but if you lose your life for my name sake and the word of God, you shall have ubundantly, eternal life. When the mark of the beast is the only thing left that will allow people to make purchases and pay their bills via computer transaction, then they will be faced with a decision, recieve the mark in order to save their lives or reject it and take their stand with Jesus keeping their testimony of him and the word of God. At that time there will be no grey area. You receive it or reject it! The reason why God cares is because the mark belongs to his enemy, the beast, who will be proclaiming himself to be God or anything that is called God or worshiped. The fact is that no matter what you or anyone else thinks is right or wrong, when this mark comes out and anyone receives it, then they will suffer the eternal consequences mentioned in Rev.14:9-12.
  
  You interpret the mark of the beast as observing the Sabbath on Sunday and give it a symbolic meaning, yet, we already have subdermal computer chips that have a variety of applications and one of them is for making purchases via computer transaction. I don’t need a brick to fall on my head in order to see the significance of this. The word of God talks about about a mark that is to go in the right hand or forehead and without it no one will be able to buy or sell and our current technology is producing exactly. The very fact that we have any kind of a device at all that goes under the skin should raise red flags, much less one that will allow people to make purchases. It is going to come down to loving your life more than God and receiving the mark in order to save your life or rejeciting and keeping your testimony for Christ. Since we are not under the law, the Sabbath is not even going to be an issue with God, but faith will be. As it is written:
  
  “One man considers one day more sacred than another; and another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord.” Romans 14:5-6
  
  The verse above is saying that under Judaism, the days under the law that were deemed holy were manditory to observe, but under the covenant of grace it no longer applies, let each man be fully convinced in his own mind.
  
  By the way, if you did receive the mark, you would not be out preaching Christ because you would be an enemy of the beast and the whole world. Nevertheless, God has already made know what the consequences are for those who receive it regardless of what they think. Those who receive the mark will do so knowing who this man is and for the sake of saving their lives. What are you gonna do, pat yourself on the back because your a Sabbath keeper, while standing in line to get your literal mark?
  
  Don McAllister said this on March 23, 2011 at 4:45 pm | Reply
  - Don,
    
    If indeed it does come down to someone, or more than one individual telling others like me I can not buy, or sell with taking an oath to Lucifer’s son, do you think that is an act of war?
    
    Thanks
    
    Leatherneck said this on March 24, 2011 at 1:32 am | Reply
    - Hi Leatherneck,
      
      In regards to your question:
      
      “If indeed it does come down to someone, or more than one individual telling others like me I can not buy, or sell with taking an oath to Lucifer’s son, do you think that is an act of war?”
      
      We need to understand that, the inhabitants of the earth are not going to be against this man or his mark. In fact, their attitude towards him will be just the opposite, as they will be in awe over him and will worship him wilfully as can be seen by the following verses:
      
      “Men worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, ‘Whio is like the beast? Who can make war against him’ ”
      
      And
      
      “The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life fromt he creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come.”
      
      In the verse above, the word “Astonished” means that the inhabitants of the earth will be in admiration of the beast and therefore, for those whose names that were not written in the book of life before the world began, they will be in wonderment and amazement over this man and will wilfulling worship him and receive his mark. Furthermore, no one will be physically forced to receive his mark, not even the great tribulation saints. It will be a freewill choice for all. In Rev.13:16 where it uses the word “Forces,” (Ibid) the people are not going to be physically forced to recieve it, but as I said in another post, the forcing will be due to the fact that around the middle of that last seven years, he and the false prophet will make cash, checks, credit and debit obsolete, so that the only method of being able to do any kind of monitary transactions will be by the use of his mark via computer transaction. Just in the same way that you must have your debit card to be able to withdraw money from your ATM or to be able to swipe it through the card reader at any establishment to make payment, this is then the same way that the mark will work. The only difference is that those other methods of buying and selling will become obsolete so that only his mark remains, ergo, “He Forces.”
      
      The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from before the world began will receive his mark wilfully, but as for those great tribulation saints, of them it says, “They will not love their lives so much as to shrink from death.” In other words, they will be ready to die resisting the beast, his image and his mark and will keep the testimony of Jesus and the word of God.
      
      This is not going to be some kind of Hitler regime where everyone is a prisoner, but instead they will be in love with this guy, as he will be very charismatic and he will bring peace, a false peace, but the world won’t know that at the time. The other thing is that, according to Scripture, the inhabitants of the earth will worship the dragon who was identified as Satan in
      Rev.12:9 and they will also worship the beast whom Satan will give his power and authority to.
      
      The other things that need to be taken into consideration regarding this beast, also referred to as the man of lawlessness, is that he will be proclaiming himself to be God or anything that is called God and to back his claim, he will have the head of that false religious system (Mystery Babylon) as his false prophet who will be performing miracles, signs and wonders on his behalf, that is, to support the beasts claim of being God. And because the inhabitants of the earth will not believe God’s truth, God will send them a strong delusion so that they will believe the lie and that lie being the beasts claim of being God. (2 Thes.2:9-12; Rev.13:13-14).
      
      The ten horns of the beast represent ten kings who rule concurrently with the beast, which is still future. At that time, the world will be divided up into ten regions, with those ten kings each ruling over a region. They in turn will give their power and authority to the beast. So, the beast will be at the top and those ten kings will rule over their regions, which will include each regions government and military. And because the beast will have the false prophet’s support, this means that he will have all of the the false prophets devout followers of Mystery Babylon. So, you can imagine the impact of what I am saying if the false prophet is one of the future popes, meaning that the beast will have all of those religious followers in his back pocket, because they will do what their pope and the leaders of Roman Catholicism will lead them to do. Just to give you an idea, there are currently over one billion Roman Catholics and you can bet your bottom dollar that, when the false prophet begins to perform those miracles, signs and wonders, then there will many more who will be apart of that false religious system.
      
      I hope that this information sheds some better light on this subject.
      
      Always in Christ
      
      dmcal said this on March 24, 2011 at 11:11 am | Reply
      - Dmcal. theonly problem haveis there is no 7 year period as you pre-tribbers teac who are dispensationalists and into replacement Theology and the immenecy of Christ which are all teachings of traditions of men.
        Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
        Philosophy. Here the word stands for the heretical Gnostic or pre-Gnostic alternative to the true understanding of who the Messiah is.
        Human tradition here is pagan tradition, because it goes along with the elemental spirits of the world (see Gal_4:3). Contrast it with Jewish tradition (including the Oral Torah; Mat_15:2-6, Mar_7:3-13, Gal_1:14) and with Messianic tradition (Rom_6:17; 1Co_11:2, 1Co_11:23; 2Th_2:15; 2Th_3:6). David L. Stern’s Jewish NT Commentary.
        Jesus went against the scribes and Pharisees for their obedience to legalism of the oral traditionswhich we call today the Talmud and I go against you Christians for your traditions of men.
        So you have a choice to make. Keep your Christiantraditions and be in pain from a locust bite for 5 months or get ridof your traditions and not get the 5 month pain.
        Choose wisely. In Matthew 24, I do not see 7 years of great Tribulation but all Jesus talks about is 1260 days.
        Daniels70 weeks refer to the first coming of 490 years which were sabbatical and for the Second coming, it refers to 70 Jubilees which is between 2015-2017.
        Oh, you get your 7 years from the repeat of the other 1260 days in Revelation where one section repeats the other and gives us a deeper look into what is going to happen during the first 1260 days.
        
        The final Jubilee will begin on the Day of Atonement in 2015. (September 23, 2015 -Yom Kippur). There will have been 40 complete Jubilee cycles following Christ’s death. Isn’t that interesting? There are so many 40’s in the Bible and 40 is a significant number to God. The 40 Jubilees after Christ’s death bring us to the end of probationary time. After 2015 there will be no more opportunities for people to repent and receive eternal life.
        “Seventy ‘ sevens’ are decreed for your people” is a dual prophecy. Daniel 9:24. It has two fulfillments:
        First, the 70 “sevens” are 70 sabbatical cycles. They are 490 years, pointing to the first coming of Jesus as our Savior from sin.
        Second, the 70 “sevens”are 70 Jubilee cycles. They are 3,430 years, pointing to the second coming of Jesus when His people will be permanently freed from sin.
        In the fall of 2015 the 6,000 years of sin on earth will come to an end!
        What are the dates of the 70 Jubilees?
        The Jubilees clock began ticking in 1416 BC when the children of Israel entered Canaan. The first Jubilee was 49 years later in 1367 BC. Every 49 years another Jubilee has occurred
        Jesus is King for 40 ½ Jubilees
        Jesus died in 31 AD in the middle of the 30th Jubilee cycle. There were 40 ½ Jubilee cycles yet to occur to complete the total of 70.
        When Jesus was resurrected He was taken to heaven to reign as king with God on His throne. Jesus ascended to heaven in 31AD and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
        “Looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.” Hebrews 12:2.
        When Jesus comes the second time to get His people He will have reigned in heaven as king for 40 ½ Jubilee cycles. He will have reigned from 31 AD – 55 AD (1/2 Jubilee cycle) and from 55AD – 2015 AD (40 Jubilee cycles) for a total of 40 ½ Jubilee cycles.
        David reigned over the children of Israel as their king. Notice how long David reigned as king:
        “And they anointed David king over Israel. David was thirty years old when he began to reign, and he reigned forty years. In Hebron he reigned over Judah seven years and six months, and in Jerusalem he reigned thirty-three years over all Israel and Judah.” 2 Samuel 5:3-5.
        David reigned in Hebron 7 ½ years and in Jerusalem 33 years for a total of 40 ½ years. David was a type of Jesus and David’s throne was given to Jesus after His resurrection.
        “And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name JESUS. He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David. And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.” Luke 1:31-33.
        David reigned as king on earth for 40 ½ years. Jesus will reign as king in heaven for 40 ½ Jubilees.
        From Canaan to Canaan
        The 70 Jubilees clock began when the children of Israel entered Canaan, the land God had promised them. The 70 Jubilees clock will end when God’s people enter heavenly Canaan, the land God has promised them. From earthly Canaan to heavenly Canaan is 70 Jubilees.
        What will happen at the final Jubilee in 2015?
        The final Jubilee will begin on the Day of Atonement in the year 2015. Here are some of the many things that will happen:
        The prophecy in Daniel 9:24 will meet its final and complete fulfillment.
        Everlasting righteousness will be brought in for God’s people.
        Sin will be brought to an end for God’s people.
        Transgression will be finished for God’s people.
        Vision and prophecy will be sealed up.
        The earth will be returned to God – its rightful owner.
        Anoint the Most Holy.
        God will have permanently taken care of the disease of sin for His people. Daniel’s prayer will have received a complete answer. Within days, Jesus will come to earth the second time to take His people back to heaven with Him and the earth will begin its 1,000 years of rest.
        
        jardalkal said this on October 8, 2015 at 11:03 pm | Reply
  - Don Mcallister,
    Is this the Romans 14 that you re referring to.
    
    Romans 14
    14:1-15:6 Among believers there are two groups, those with “strong trust” and those with “weak trust.” The latter are depicted in this passage as feeling they must abstain from meat or wine and/or observe certain days as holy, while the former feel no such compunctions.
    On the basis of this passage Messianic Jews are sometimes asked by Gentile Christians to stop observingJewish holidays or keeping kosher. Or they are criticized as having “weak faith’ if they adhere to Jewish practices. But the specifics of the passage are clearly in a Gentile cultural and religious context, not a Jewish one. It does not teach that following Jewish practices is a sign of “weak faith.” Rather, it exhorts believers, Jewish or Gentile, whose trust is “strong” not to look down on thse whose trust they consider “weak”–precisely the opposite of the behavior described above.
    The passage also teaches the “weak” not to pass judgment on the “strong” failing to observe practices the “weak” onsider important, since all believers are equal before the God who has delivered them. Invidious distinctions and disputes should give way to caring for one another and mutual upbuilding, in imitation of the Messiah. The rabbis too teach that the gifted, the rich and the learned should not boast against those who have not received those blessings from God. They too teach against having a “holier-than-thou” attitude. They too teach that all in Israel should care for each other and build up the community.
    The problem in the passage does not come from the behavior it teaches but from identifying precisely who are the “strong” and the “weak” and drawing out the implications. The four most frequently offered candidates are these ( of them, (4) is correct).
    (1) The weak are Gentile Christians who abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, as in I Corinthians 8 and 10. But Paul does not deal here with idol-worship as a problem, even though there are at least a dozen parallels between the passage and that one.
    (2) The weak are legalists, either Gentile or Jewish believers, eithe Judaizers or of some other group, who believe thy earn a righteous status before God by their works. But a major point of the book of Romans is precisely that such persons are not merely “weak” in trust but utterly lacking in it, unbelievers not believers; whereas here the weak in trust are clearly portrayed as believers.
    (3) Many interpreters bring to this passage a presupposition that the NT abrogates the ceremonial and ritual details of the Jewish Law, such as kashrut (Jewish Dietary Laws) and the Jewish holidays. They see the weak as Messianic Jews who still observe these “Jewish details” because they have not yet realized that there is no longer any need to do so. according tothis uderstanding Gentile Christians, along with Jewish believers who have “freed themselves form the Law,” are not to look down on their “weaker brothers” for abstaing from pork, celebrating Passover or fasting on Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement). On the other hand, Messianic Jews who do practice these customs have no ground for a “holier-than-thou” attitude toward those who do not. Quite the contrary; not only have they a direct command not to pass judgement on their brothers who do not keep the Law, but theire is implicit in this interpretation and indirect, subliminal message to aspire tothe “strong faith’ that will “free them from the Law.”
    I believe that it is true that Yeshua’s sacrifice alters the meaning of Temple sacrifices and eliminates the need for most of them (see Hebrews 7-10&Ns). But it is also true that the NT itself “has been given as Torah” (Hebrews 8:6b &N); as a result Torah itself has been transformed (Heb 7:12&N). In particular, Gentiles have been brought into an expanded Messianic people of God (Rom 11:23-24&N); and the relationships between Jews and Gentiles in this new Messianic people of God have been spelled out (e.g., in Acts 15, in Galatians, and at Rom 15:27). Yet the major changes are not in the Torah itself but in how to apply it, how to establish priorities among conflicting commands that might goven a particular situation (see Jn 7:22-23; Gal 2:12). Such changes are not so much in the content of Torah as in the hearts of those entrusted with determining how to use it (Matt 18:18-20). Yeshua himself said he did not “come to abolisht he Torah (Matt 5:17); it distorts his staement of it is interpreted to mean that he came to abolish the ritual, ceremonial and civil aspects of the Law and to preserve only the moral aspects.
    In any case, it is clear form the passage itself that the “weak” cannot be equated with observant Messianic Jews. For nothing in Judaism requires a Jew to be a vegeterian (v. 2). It is argued the kosher food might not have been available. But Rome had a large Jewish colony (Acts 28:17); it is unthinkable that it would not have had a shochet (ritual slaughterer). It is argued that the shochet might have been unwilling to sell to Messianic Jews. But this is a gratuitous assumption for which here is no evidence, and the willingness of the Jewish leaders of Rome to come and listen to Paul (Acts 28:17ff.) argues against it. Also nothing in Judaism requires a Jew to refrain from wine (v. 21); the only exceptions are Nazarites during the period of their vow and priests on duty. On the contrary, wine-drinking is so much a part of Jewish ritual that it is lent an aura of sanctity which, at least until recently, made alcoholism very uncommon among Jews.
    For these may reasons we conclude that the “weak” cannot be Messianic Jews who are “not yet freed from the Law.”
    (4) The weak are believers, either Gentile or Jewish, who have not yet grown sufficiently in their faith to have given up attachment to various ascetic practices and calendar observances. Their tie to these activities, however, is not supported by a rational though mistaken ideology, as with the legalists of (2) above. Rather, it is irrational and emotional, linked to psychological needs, social pressures or superstition, or it may simply be a matter of habit. When their activities in these areas are questioned in “arguments over opinions” (v. 1), they are not “fully convinced in their own minds” (v. 5), not “free of self-doubt” (v. 22), but rather easily “upset” or even “destroyed” (v. 15) and thus able to “fall away” or “stumble” (vv. 20-21). This is why Paul calls them “weak.”
    At least four distinct groups of people fit the description:
    (a) First are Gentiles who, as in (1), want to avoid the appearance of evil by maintaining physical and emotional distance from anything that remids them of their previous idoatrous practices. In this category should also include anyone, Jewish or Gentile, who wants to avoid the trapping of his former sinful way of life.
    (b) Second are Gentiles who adopted elements of Jewish practice as part of their faith along with believing in Yeshua. They have, as it were, bought what they considered a whole package and have not yet unwrapped it and decided what is really important for them. In the first century the phenomenon was common enough to require considerable attention in the NT (Acts 15 and wht whol book of Galatians, for starters). Today it rarely happens in relation to Jewish practices, but it is very common for someone to accept Yeshua in a particular Christian setting and only afterwards discover that some of the practices he has picked up in that setting are not esential to his faith.
    (c) Third are Gentiles or Jews who have brought into the faith practices found in other religions with which they are familiar. These practices often appeal to their religiosity but are irrelevant or even contrary to the Gospel.
    (d) Fourth are Messianic Jews who have not grasped how the incorporation of the New Covenant into God’s Torah and the presence of the Holy Spirit in themselves alters the way in which the Torah is to be applied. They therefore feel a compulsiveness about observing ceremonial and ritual details. When their faith grows stronger they will be free not from the Law but from this compulsiveness.
    But “weak” is the wrong word for Messianic Jews who have decided out of conviction to observe the Law as interpreted by the rabbis in the same way as a non-Messianic Jew would, except for such parts of it as they believe might conflict with the Gospel. their reason might be, for example, in order to strengthen their sense of Jewish identity, or to deomonstrate that believing in Yeshua does not turn a Jew into a Gentile, or to help preserve the Jewish community by upholding its distinctives publicly. Or they might simply be satisified that in most instances the rabbinic directives and principles adequately express God’s will. So long as they do not impose their pattern on others but uphold the unity of Jews and Gentiles in the Body of the Messiah, neither passing judgment nor looking down on those who behave or believe differently, they are among the “strong in trust,” not “weaker brothers.”
    1-12 Paul here discusses the porper attitude Christians should have toward each other in debatable areas of conduct (things which are clearly not stated to be wrong). He says tgat we are nit ti judge one another in such matters, because God has received both the weaker and stronger believer (vv 1-3), because we can differ in good conscience (vv 4-6), and because we shall all be judged by the Lord (vv. 7-12)
    1. Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
    weak in the faith. I.e., one who does not yet have full knowledge of how to live as a Christian, In this case it is one who eats only herbs and vegetables, v. 2, and not meat.
    To welcome someone only in order to lure him into a futile dispute, or equally, to welcome someone who comes only to argue, is not the “love” of 12:8-10 and 13:8-10 but the “quarreling condemned at 13:13.
    2. For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
    Eats anything..only herbs. Paul is not proposing tnat the Jewish dietary laws have been abrogated. See Rom 14:1-15:6N and Mark 7:19, Acts 10:17-19; Gal 2:11-16.
    3. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
    4. Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
    3-4 Paul chooses his words carefully in order to pinpoint the sin of each. The one who eats anything might take pride in having thought the matter through and freed himself from his fears and compulsions; therefore he might look down on his duller, weaker brother, with his self-created fence around hisf self-created law. But the abstainer is more likely to develop a “holier-than-thou” attitude and pass judgment on the other as careless or a libertine. In this letter, boasting has already been condemned at 1:22, 30; 2:17-27; 3:27-4:2; 11:18, 25; 12:3ff; and judging at 2:1-3.
    4 The Romans obtained many of their slaves through warfare. In addition, some criminals and pirates engaged in the business of capturing people and selling them as slaves. Slaves could be bought in markets without their origin being knownm while children of slaves were slaves from birth. Pual did not discuss the abolition of slavery, but did speak to masters and slaves on how to live within that culture’s institutions.
    5. One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
    One person considers some days more holy than others. The reference is not specifically to Jewish holidays but to any days that any believer might have come to regard as especially holy. This is because the “weak” are not specifically Jewish believers, but any believers attached to particular calendar observances (see Section (4) of 14:1-15:6N).
    Each should be fully convinced in his own mind. This principle for dealing with doctrinal and practical disputes applies to “adiaphora” (matters about which the Bible is indifferent) and must be balanced against 2 Tim 3:16, “All Scripture is God-breathed and is valuable for teaching the truth, convicting of sin, correcting faults and training in right living.” Where Scripture gives a clear word, personal opinion must give way. But where the Word of God is subject to various possible interpretations, let each be persuaded in his own mind while at the same time ‘outdoing one another in showing respect for each other. (12:10).
    
    6-12 Judging and boasting do not befit people whose standing before God is equal. Verse 11 quotes Isa 45:23, also cited by Paul at Philp 2:10 in a similar context (and compare 15:1-3 below with Phil 2:1-8).
    6. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
    1-6 Differences of opinion prevailed even among the immediate followers of Christ and their disciples. Nor did St. Paul attempt to end them. Compelled assent to any doctrine, or conformity to outward observances without being convinced, would be hypocritical and of no avail. Attempts for producing absolute oneness of mind among Christians would be useless. Let not Christian fellowship be disturbed with strifes of words. It will be good for us to ask ourselves, when tempted to disdain and blame our brethren; Has not God owned them? and if he has, dare I disown them? Let not the Christian who uses his liberty, despise his weak brother as ignorant and superstitious. Let not the scrupulous believer find fault with his brother, for God accepted him, without regarding the distinctions of meats. We usurp the place of God, when we take upon us thus to judge the thoughts and intentions of others, which are out of our view. The case as to the observance of days was much the same. Those who knew that all these things were done away by Christ’s coming, took no notice of the festivals of the Jews. But it is not enough that our consciences consent to what we do; it is necessary that it be certified from the word of God. Take heed of acting against a doubting conscience. We are all apt to make our own views the standard of truth, to deem things certain which to others appear doubtful. Thus Christians often despise or condemn each other, about doubtful matters of no moment. A thankful regard to God, the Author and Giver of all our mercies, sanctifies and sweetens them.
    
    jardalkal said this on October 8, 2015 at 10:41 pm | Reply
- Hey James,
  
  I don’t have your email so I thought I would find you on here to give you this…thought you would find it interesting 🙂
  
  Lyndsey said this on March 23, 2011 at 9:59 pm | Reply
  - Hi Lyndsey,
    I’ve been posting this same video and others like it on other blogs for years now. I’ve known about the prophecy for 25 years but until the internet I had no way to research it.
    It fits perfectly with my interpretation of Revelation and confirms that the woman is the church that sits in the city of 7 hills, which is definitely Rome. The beast she rides is the Vatican. Remember from Daniel that a beast is a kingdom and the Vatican is the only church that fits that description – it has nation status in the UN.
    The idea that the Vatican will take over the world banking system is absurd, and the idea that they will ever reject Christ as Divine is just as ridiculous. They believe that every other religion is apostate including the Protestants. There is no way in hell that they will reject 2000 years of theology. As I keep saying, it is not logical.
    But the Catholic church has already written a proposal that would order mandatory Sunday worship and outlaw Friday and Saturday worship, just as it did in the dark ages after the council of Laodicea. That is what the final pope will manage to do and I’m sure all Christians will praise him for rejecting other forms of worship, since by that time I believe the Muslims will be staging religious attacks on Christians throughout Europe (the revived Holy Roman Empire).
    Now I wouldn’t be surprised if the last pope (the False Prophet) tries to instigate a false mark to throw believers off the truth, but the fact is that billions will follow the beast and take it’s mark without ever realizing they have it. They will be watching for a Muslim threat and gather every Sunday to pray for their salvation. Satan has them right where he wants them. Ask any satanist, if they are willing to reveal their secrets. Or watch this video that Lyndsey posted on another blog:
    
    You know, if I were to ask a chipster why we can’t take the chip they would respond “Because you must agree to worship Satan in the process.” But then I might ask, so who cares? And they might respond “God cares, silly.” But what if I still believe in Jesus too?” I would reply, and they might say “Because we are to have no other God’s before YWH.” But then I could say “But the commandments are dead, there is no such law any more. We can have as many God’s as we like now.”
    Now I’m sure Don and others would never buy that line of reasoning, but the bottom line is that if he is right about the chip, then we are talking about breaking the first commandment instead of the fourth. But it doesn’t really matter, cause if you break one, you broke them all.
    But think about this – would Satan pick such an obvious commandment to get people to break? He’s too smart for that. He will pick the one that most Christians have been ignoring since the 5th century, and they all defend it as being the all new and improved “Lord’s day.” And as we know from the video, it is already Satan’s day, so it is a perfect plan, and it is working beautifully.
    
    But why are we even worrying about it. Aren’t we all supposed to be raptured before the antichrist makes his appearance?
    
    Well, maybe the atheists will read our blogs when the time comes. Guess the Book of Revelation was really written for those guys.
    😉
    
    James Giordano said this on March 24, 2011 at 12:07 am | Reply
    - James
      I wrote a response to Al above. if you could read it as well. The qustion I have for you is: Is it God’s work or our work that “writes the law in our hearts”?
      
      dru said this on March 24, 2011 at 1:00 am | Reply
    - James
      what happens if the catholic church, say, has a relic that supposedly contains the blood of Jesus, does a dna test and finds that this blood has a human males dna in it. I bet they would rather quickly nullify 2000 years of theology in order to save face? NO?
      
      dru said this on March 24, 2011 at 3:03 am | Reply
      - Actually, the Catholic church does have 2 relics with the blood of Christ on it; the shroud of Turin and the accompanying head cloth which is housed in a cathedral in Spain. They have tested it and found it to be human. They even have a blood type (it was an old test).
        In addition Ron Wyatt has found Christ’s blood in Jeremiah’s grotto and a DNA test shows it to be a male human with only one human (female) donor.
        So far, not a peep from the Vatican. Apparently you believe that Jesus was not a human being. Marianne will tell you that a human female can only give birth to another human. If He was not human, what do you think He was? Maybe a hologram?
        But this is beside the point. You must live in a fantasy world if you believe the Catholic church would just decide to go out of business and reopen after some drastic theological remodeling as some kind of conglomerate of all the world’s religions.
        That is as crazy as believing that the USA is going to shut down it’s government and turn it all over to some charismatic New World Order -leading antichrist dictator dude. Talk about illogical, but I read the theories all the time. It’s “Left Behind” taken as fact.
        The idea of a one-world unified church is popular nowadays – I guess it goes along with the New World Order. But the truth is that it will only be the Christian world that will unite with the Vatican near the end time. So far 11 protestant denominations have agreed in principle to put aside their former differences and rejoin the Catholic church. This began in 2002 and is well under way. The Anglican church (most of it) has already done so. The harlot daughters are coming home to Mama. The prophecy is in fulfillment. The idea of a “universal” church of all religions combined is just silly. Who would join such a church (besides Oprah)? All talk and no action. Same as the New World Order.
        And speaking of a “universal” church, that is the definition of the word “catholic” and I don’t think that the name is coincidental.
        But I won’t be surprised when all I’ve described slips right under the radar while believers stand around waiting for a New World Order, the antichrist, the RFID chip, the covenant with many for 7 years, the abomination of desolation and the rapture. They are all either made up or wrong interpretations.
        Listen to me now and hear me later,,, they will not happen!
        But maybe I’m wrong. Maybe Jesus will return and rule the world from the Mormon temple in Salt Lake City, as some suggest.
        Any Mormons out there?
        🙂
        
        James Giordano said this on March 24, 2011 at 8:03 am | Reply
        
        James
        you did not listen to what I asked. Mr. Wyatt’s sample confirms the divinity of Christ if it shows the blood to have a no male half to the dna as he claims. What if tests on say, the shroud or the spear shows that the blood has male chromosomes therefore whoevers blood therein is the product of normal human reproduction. How quickly will they conform to the muslim thinking that Jesus was not divine, but man filled with the spirit.
        The mormon church is already there, they do not believe in the trinity/ divinity of Jesus. They will jump on board with this one world church as soon as they are offered the chance. In fact if you watch Glenn Beck at all, he is trying to unify all the faiths in the guise of saving our country. (not to get politics involved, and no I am not funded by George Soros) As you may or may not know, he is a Mormon. This lack of belief in the divinity of Christ is universally accepted by all cults, Islam, Judaism,etc. If as you say catholocism is part of the endtime apostacy, will they not have to compromise on this as well. Might as well drag some of the protestent sects in with them who believe but no longer preach the trinity, because they do not understand why Jesus had to be God to redeem them, because they do not dwell in God’s love.
        As I said in my previous post, I am not convinced 100% that this will be the mark, but it sounds awefully convincing to me. Maybe the Rfid chip is involved?
        
        But I do know this: I rest my life on the blood of Christ to save me, not the fact that I obeyed the letter of the Law, because when I say that, I fall back into the original sin of pride. It is not anything that I can take credit for when God writes the law in our hearts. If the spirit leads me one day to observe the seventh day as the sabbath, there I will follow. What matters more for God I think, is that we submit to his will everyday. It does not matter to me when the rapture is, even if there is one, for I would be willing to suffer through any persecution, Because Jesus was willing to suffer through the persecution of death on the cross that we might be redeemed.
        If Jesus himself stood before you and said “with the new covenent, I changed the sabbath to the first day”, would you still defend why it should be the seventh day? Was not David’s murder of the Philistines counted as righteousness in God’s eyes? It was counted as righteousness because he did what God commanded him to do. He was living by faith, not his own understanding of the Law.
        
        dru said this on March 24, 2011 at 11:56 am | Reply
James
I think the beast and the woman are two different entities. The beast, in fact turns on the woman and kills her. The whore of babylon being the Catholic church. Babylon is the leader of the world Government. The catholic church will be the head of the world religion, which will be a combination of all world religions. The one thing that holds this back from happening now is that the catholic faith still holds to the divinity/trinity of God. If you look at any cult out there, this is the one thing they agree on, That Jesus was not God, only a prophet. Compromising on this belief is what the mark will entail. Note the bible says “Believe on the LORD(divinity) Jesus(human form) Christ and thou shalt be saved.” Belief is not a work. How this translates into the Mark of the beast, i am not sure. I know that the fifth seal involves us giving our testimony. It will be some sort of test by the world Government/religion. Our testimony will reach the entire world. I suppose if we pass this test by the worlds standards (Deny the divinity of Christ) we will be “marked”. Pass, fail so to speak.

If you have an open mind, this is a plausible theory. May the Spirit of truth lead us all.

dru said this on March 23, 2011 at 12:55 pm | Reply
- Throw this in with what Whalid Shoebat says about the Mark of the beast, w/ regard to muslims and their saying “There is no god but Allah” this statement denies the divinity of Christ/trinity. In fact this is the basis of their faith, For if Christ was God the work would have been finished on the cross and there would be no need for Mohammad.
  
  I Know I’ve seen shoebat’s video somewhere on this sight.
  
  dru said this on March 23, 2011 at 2:58 pm | Reply
  - Here you go Dru:
    
    Lyndsey said this on March 23, 2011 at 10:00 pm | Reply
    - Gracias you techno wiz!
      
      dru said this on March 23, 2011 at 11:02 pm | Reply
- Hi Dru,
  
  I agree that the beast and the woman are two different entities, as she is riding the beast and we are told that the woman sits upon seven hills, which are the seven hills of Rome (Roman Catholicisms headquarters). The angel also told John that the woman is that great city that rules over the kings of the earth, which at the time that John was receiving this information was Rome.
  
  Roman catholicism is proclaiming to be of Christ, but with just a cursorary reading of what they believe, it becomes evident based on the word of God, that this institution is anything but of Christ. Roman Catholicism is paganism wearing Christian clothing and is the biggest false religious system proclaiming to be of Christ on the earth. She is that woman and will be that false religious system that the beast will use, with (Ibid) one of the future popes playing the role of false prophet who will be the one doing the miracles, signs and wonders. If you think that the pope and this religious system have a lot followers now, just wait until he begins doing these counterfeit signs. It will pull in all the rest of the false religious systems who are proclaiming to be of Christ as well and they will believe the lie. Mystery Babylon is Rome and its false religious system. Just to mention two issues that disqualify her as being the true church is that, the do not believe that Christ’s sacrifice was sufficient to cleanse us from all sin, but only original sin and that our sins must be cleanse by receiving the sacraments meted out by their priests and that only gets you to Purgatory, where one has to remain in torment in flame in order to cleanse any sins that have not been atoned for. This is a disgrace to Jesus who shed his blood for us and paid the penalty for all sins.
  
  The next proof that this system is not of Christ is the worship of Mary. They claim that Mary is a co-savior, co-redeemer, without sin, queen of heaven and that we must go through her to get to her in order to get to Chirst, making her a co-mediator as well. Mary was a blessed woman used of God to bring the Lord into the world in his flesh, but he existed as God, creator of all things prior to being kinned with us in the flesh. Catholicism is the prostitue because she is committing spiritual adultery against God. She is called Mystery Babylon because most of the Babylonian pagan mystery practices can be found within Roman Catholicism. In their dogma, they believe that when they partake of the eucarist, that Christ is literally coming down into the waffer and that the one partaking in the comunion is literally eating his flesh and their dogma says that, anyone who says that partaking of the eucarist is only a symbolic act representing his body and blood, let them be an athema (cursed).
  
  So, we can see from just these that this is not the church of the Lord. Then you can get into the fact that their dogma states the infallability of the pope and that his word can supercede Scripture and many other like teachings. However, just to be clear, God does have people even within that false religious system as can be seen in Rev.18:4 where God will is calling them to come out of her so that they will not partake of her plagues that he is going to pour out upon her.
  
  The beast on the other hand represents a couple different things. He seven heads which we are told represent seven hills upon which the woman sits and they also represent a succession of seven kings. The ten horns are said to be ten kings who will rule concurrently with the beast. Originally, the beast is identified in chapter 12:7-9 as Satan, which means that he is the one orchestrating everything. One of the heads, the eighth king who belongs to the seven, also represents the beast, who is called Abaddon in Hebrew and Apollyon in the Greek both meaning destoyer, who is let out of the Abyss at the 5th seal (Rev.9)
  
  dmcal52 said this on March 24, 2011 at 1:54 am | Reply
  - Don
    Thank you for the lesson on catholic religion. I am aware of what they believe, and do not support the church. It is off on 90% of what it teaches. There is still a glimmer of hope that there are some Christians among them. They still believe in the sinfulness of man, and that they need the blood of Jesus to save them. Where they and many other churches get lost is they add to the Gospel the works of man as having some value to God. As I mentioned to Al above, The only works that God counts as righteousness towards us, are the ones he has done in us through his spirit and grace. It is faith that moves mountains, not man’s works. Everytime man tries to move a mountain they just build another one. The same goes for any church, the church is the fellowship of believers, the leaders the shepherds of the flock. Back in biblical times, being a shepherd was a lowly, dirty job. The problem now is that the churches and their leaders have taken upon themselves to do God’s sanctifying work for him. This is exactly contrary to biblical teachings on the church and its leaders. In fact, I think the church was supposed to be led by elders (plural) not Rabbi’s.
    
    It saddens me to see people move from one form of bondage to another form of bondage here on this earth, when they go from one church to another searching for a home, when they should be trusting in Jesus, and living in communion with God. They will never experience God and his love for them. I guess that is what is meant by the way being narrow.
    
    dru said this on March 24, 2011 at 2:51 am | Reply
  - Regardless of what you think Paul is trying to tell his people, Jesus has something to say about the matter:
    
    Matthew 5:18
    For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
    
    Matthew 5:17-19 (King James Version)
    
    17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
    
    18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
    
    19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
    
    Luke 16:16-18 (King James Version)
    
    16The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
    
    17And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.
    
    These verses make it very plain. No context or historical enhancements are needed. I plan to keep teaching the commandments until I enter the Kingdom of Heaven, where I will be called great.
    
    Sounds like a good plan, eh?
    
    Or perhaps you prefer to be the least?
    
    Good luck with that…
    
    James Giordano said this on March 24, 2011 at 6:28 am | Reply
    - Hello again Dru,
      
      Just wanted to clarify a few things:
      
      You wrote:
      “Regardless of what you think Paul is trying to tell his people, Jesus has something to say about the matter”
      
      First of all, what Paul is telling people is on behalf of the Lord, just so that no one thinks that Paul was speaking and acting on his own accord. There are some, who out of ignorance and false teachings of men, believe that Paul was false apostle and a liar, but I assure you that if the Lord had not truly interveined in Paul’s life, Paul would have remained a Pharisee and that because he was proud of it before he met Jesus as can be seen below:
      
      “If anyone else thinks he has reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more: circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regards to the law, a Pharisee; as for zeal, persecuting the church; as for legalistic righteousness, faultless. But what ever was to my profit I now consider loss for the sake of Christ.
      (Phil.3:4-6)
      
      So, there is something to be said about a man who is persecuting the church one minute and days later he is preaching Christ. Also, Paul was having the same problem of people believing that what he was teaching and writing about was not from the teachings of men nor was sent by as can be seen from the following:
      
      “Paul, an apostel–sent not from men nor by man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead–and all the brothers with me.”
      
      Reaffirming his position as an apostle he also said:
      
      “I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel I preached is not something that man made up. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.”
      
      Not only this, but Peter referred to Paul’s letters as wisdom from God and regarded them as Scripture and those that distort them as ignorant and unstable men. See 2 Pet.3:14-16.
      
      You Wrote:
      “Matthew 5:18
      For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, not one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled”
      
      If by the verse above you are inferring that everyone must keep every jot and tittle of the law of their own accord, you are gravely mistaken. This verse is not saying what you want it to say. If our salvation and eternal life is based on keeping every jot and tittle of the law, then we are already dead, because no keeps the law, even those who have put themselves under the law are not keeping it nor are they able to do so, neither was Israel. Sin is the breaking of the law and Scripture says that, if we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.”
      
      You wrote:
      “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill”
      
      By Jesus saying that he had “not come to destroy the law, but to fulfill,” is exactly what he did. Jesus met God’s righteous requirments of the law perfectly our behalf. His mention to fulfill it meant to meet all of its requirments, not to perpetuate it.
      
      So, let me end the arguement, has or is anyone at all on the planet earth keeping the whole law? Remember, once you break it at any point, you’ve broken the whole thing.
      
      You wrote:
      “These verses make it very plain. No context or historical enhancements are needed. I plan to keep teaching the commandments until I enter the Kingdom of Heaven, where I will be called great.”
      
      And yet, you have broken them and will break them in the future, just like everyone else.
      
      I will rather fulfill the law by following Christ and when I fail at anything, then I will ask God to forgive me through Christ who lived a perfect, sinless life and who fulfilled the law perfectly on my behalf, bringing it to fulfillment because its requirments had been met by him.
      
      I ask the same question, if Jesus was asking you why you should be allowed to enter the kingdom of God, what would your answer be?
      
      dmcal said this on March 24, 2011 at 9:01 am | Reply
      - that was James with the “regardless” quote.
        
        dru said this on March 24, 2011 at 11:01 am | Reply
      - You seem to think that if we try to keep the law and fail, we are doomed, but that is why Christ died for us – for our sins. When we are baptized we must repent our sins and be cleansed by the holy spirit. If there is no sin then baptism is unnecessary, yet the apostles continued the practice and they also kept the sabbath and I’m sure tried to follow all the commandments as did Jesus to the best of their abilities.
        Jesus had plenty of chances to tell His disciples in plain words “My father’s commandments are no longer in effect” yet He says the opposite. He has fulfilled several of God’s holy days – the spring festivals from Passover to firstfruits, but all is not fulfilled. He will return on the feast of trumpets and take His throne on the day of atonement, fulfilling those. But all will not be fulfilled until the second resurrection and the great white throne judgement.
        Until then, His commandments are still in effect.
        
        Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
        
        If the commandments are null and void, then why would Satan make war with those who both keep them AND have the testimony of Jesus Christ? These are Christians, not Jews. Apparently he hates sabbath keepers. Remember, his day is sunday…
        
        Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
        
        Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
        
        Whoa, look at that – those who are patient and keep the commandments do not have the mark of the beast. Looks like a pretty big hint to me. Why even bring up the commandments in the Book of Revelation if they are of no value to God?
        
        And finally, here is what Daniel had to say about the beast power:
        
        Dan 7:25 And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
        
        He says the beast will “think” to change laws and times. Not to actually change them as the papacy did. And the only commandment dealing with time is the fourth – the sabbath day. Yes there are many false prophets here now trying to make people think the law can be changed, and way more than a jot or tittle.
        
        Yes, you can break as many commandments as you like and still get into the Kingdom of Heaven, but you will suffer the last seven plagues before you get there, and you will be the least, to boot.
        
        You pays your money and you takes your chances.
        
        Good luck and God bless, everyone.
        
        James Giordano said this on March 24, 2011 at 1:11 pm | Reply
        
        James
        you misinterpret and misunderstand what i am saying if you think that I do not believe in the commandments. It is God’s work of sanctification that allows us to be free from the burden of trying to obey them and being coerced to do so, he in turn writes the law in our hearts over time if we just get out of his way.
        Note that I have not attacked the Law and its importance in our lives. Neither have I said that we should sin that grace may abound. I am questioning the motives of those that would want to impose the beliefs of man, and church on others. Isn’t this where the early church went astray and became legalistic.
        
        dru said this on March 24, 2011 at 2:31 pm | Reply
        
        Dru, the early church you know nothing about but you follow the laws set in 321 CE.
        
        These beliefs are what the early church believed in. How well do your beliefs compare to those of the early church?
        Baptism was by immersion and did not include infants.
        The complete Bible with the proper Old Testament and New Testament was relied on by the true Church in Asia Minor.
        A Binitarian view, that acknowledged the Holy Spirit, was held by the apostolic and post-apostolic true Christian leaders. Binitarianism is a Christian theology of duality, two personae, two individuals, or two aspects in one Godhead (or God). Classically, binitarianism is understood as a form of monotheism — that is, that God is an absolutely single being; and yet with binitarianism there is a “twoness” in God. The other common forms of monotheism are “unitarianism”, a belief in a single God with one aspect, and “trinitarianism”, a belief in a single God with three aspects. wikipedia.com/wiki/Binitarianism
        Birthdays were not celebrated by early Christians.
        Born-Again meant being born at the resurrection, not at the time of conversion.
        Celibacy for Bishops/Presbyters/Elders was not a requirement.
        Church Governance was hierarchical (goverened by priests; the organization of the priesthood according to different grades).
        Christmas was not observed by any professing Christ prior to the third century, or ever by those holding to early teachings.
        Circumcision, though not required, was long practiced by original Nazarene Christians.
        Confession of sins were not made to priests and did not require penance (suffering submitted to in penitance; act of atonement).
        Deification (to make godlike) of Christians (which begins after the first resurrection) was taught by the early leaders of the Church.
        Duties of Elders/Pastors were pastoral and theological, not predominantly sacramental–nor did they dress as many now do.
        Easter was not observed by the apostolic church.
        The Fall Holy Days were observed by true early Christians.
        The Father was considered to be God by all early professing Christians.
        The True Gospel included the kingdom of God and obedience to the law of God and was so understood by the faithful.
        Heaven was not taught to be the reward of Christians.
        Holy Spirit was not referred to as God or as a person by any early true Christians.
        Hymns were mainly psalms, not praises to Christ.
        Idols were taught against, including adoration of the cross.
        Immortality of the soul or humans was not taught.
        Jesus was considered to be God by the true Christians.
        The Kingdom of God was preached.
        Leavened Bread was removed from the homes of early Christians when the Jews did the same.
        Lent (the 40 days season between Ash Wednesday and Easter Day) was not observed by the primitive church.
        Limbo (a regionintermediate between heaven and hell in which the souls of unbaptized children etc.) was not taught by the original church.
        Mary was the mother of Jesus, was blessed (Luke 1:28) and called blessed (Luke 1:48), but was not prayed to, etc. by true early Christians.
        Military Service was not allowed for true early Christians.
        Millenarianism (a literal thousand year reign of Christ on Earth, often called the millennium) was taught by the early Christians.
        Monasticism ( the monastic way of life of monks) was unheard of in the early Christian church.
        Passover was kept on the 14th of Nisan/Abib by apostolic and second century Christians in Asia Minor.
        Pentecost was kept on Sunday by certain Jews and was observed then by professing Christians.
        Purgatory (place where souls of dead are purified by suffering) was not taught by the original apostolic church.
        The Resurrection of the dead was taught by all early Christians.
        The Sabbath was observed on Saturday by the apostolic and post-apostolic Church.
        Salvation was believed to be offered to the chosen now by the early Church, with others being called later, though not all that taught that (or other doctrines) practiced “the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints” (Jude 3).
        God’s Six Thousand Year Plan for humankind to rule itself was believed by early professors of Christ.
        Sunday was not observed by the apostolic and original post-apostolic Christians.
        The Ten Commandments were observed by the apostolic and true post-apostolic Christians–and in the order that the Church of God claims they are in.
        Tithes and Offerings were given to support the ministry, the churches, the needy, and evangelical travels and gospel proclamation.
        Tradition had some impact on the second century Christians, but was never supposed to supercede the Bible.
        The Trinity was not a word used to describe the Godhead by the apostolic or second century Christians, though a certain threeness was acknowledged. Elohim refers to more than one.
        Unclean Meats were eaten by the early allegorists, but not by true Christians.
        The Virgin Birth was acknowledged by all true ante-Nicene Christians.
        
        John Ashcraft Jardalkal@aol.com jesus in 2015-2017
        
        jardalkal said this on October 9, 2015 at 1:20 am | Reply
        
        Hey James.
        
        You really drove the point home that keeping the commandments is not about going to heaven. As much as we have tried to expain that, they still won’t listen. The conversation always works it’s way around to the charge that we are trying to earn salvation. You are right in saying that there is a consequence for not keeping the Torah. Because of misunderstandings in the church, about the writings of Paul, and certain customs of the early Jewish and gentile believers, no one will even take the time to do a credible study on this matter. I didn’t just wake up one day and decide to keep the commandments. It was a procees. The more I learned, the more I realized it was true. It has cost some very close relationships, and some who used to be friends avoid me like the plague. But if that is the way it has to be, then so be it. There is nothing I need to add to what you have said. You said it well.
        
        Be Blessed My Brother
        
        All said this on March 24, 2011 at 5:28 pm | Reply
        
        James
        you quoted Rev. 14:12 above my version says ” …keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus” NOT “faith of Jesus” That’s a subtle yet big difference. The Daniel Quote you have 7:25 your version says “…change times and laws” My version says “…change the times and the Law” once again, a subtle difference yet large. I know you quoted from KJV, I used ESV, NIV translates as follows: REV 14:12 ” who obey God’s commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.” Dan.7:25 “… and try to change the set times and the laws.”
        
        My bible refers back to Daniel 2:21 as comparison of language, I will quote all three:
        KJV “And he changeth the times and the seasons: He removeth kings, and setteth up kings:…”
        NIV ” he changes times and seasons…”
        ESV ” He changes times and seasons:…”
        If the same language from Daniel 2:21 is in 7:25, then it can be said that the times spoken of are referring to seasonal and temporal changes not The law about time.
        As for Revalation 14:12, I have no linguistic references for it, but it is clear that we hold to both the law and Faith in Jesus, One without the other is not enough.
        As for Daniel 7:25 The other versions keep these as distinct from one another, not as joined together as part of the same. Like revalation 14:12 requires both, separate and distinct. Times here is therefore not referring to the Law. Note I am not defending the first day sabbath, nor am I criticizing the seventh Day sabbath. I am only pointing to the fact that Rev 14:12 cannot be used as proof that the mark of the beast will be the Incorrect sabbath worship.
        As I have been clear in my previous posts, I am not arguing whether the sabbath should be the seventh day or not, (though I did throw some verses out there used by first day sabbath people), But I have argued that this will not be the mark of the beast. As I said, I am not 100% certain what the mark will be, but am pretty sure it will not be a work.
        Rev 13:16 says “…to be marked on the right hand or the forehead,so that noone can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is THE NAME OF THE BEAST or the NUMBER OF HIS NAME…” Iknow you’ve heard these arguments before, But how do you “mark” the sabbath on the forehead?
        How can this prevent you from buying or selling? How is this related to th name of the beast? How do you explain the three symbols that are represented by 666 in the Bible? Walid Shoebat was the only one that has had any satisfactory explanation for this.
        
        dru said this on March 24, 2011 at 8:24 pm | Reply
      - dmcal, I Jesus did fulfill 2000 Scriptures atHis first Coming including the Second Coming verse, then why isthere not a new heaven and new earth right now. You should have died 2000 years ago.
        
        Your logic is illogical which makes you a supid person.
        
        jardalkal said this on October 9, 2015 at 1:09 am | Reply
        
        please be nice when talking to others
        
        Marianne said this on October 9, 2015 at 1:30 am | Reply
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

So be it.

James Giordano said this on March 24, 2011 at 1:20 am | Reply
Don, James, Al, Gregg and others

The debating is getting heated, and I thought it would be time to explore a different track. Perhaps we can come to some agreements on some things; Imagine that!!
Anyway here is the mission if you choose to accept it.

Obviously most of our disagreements begin after the point of salvation. How we interpret scripture, how we view endtimes, how we view the sabbath ad infinitim. My request is to put down what it is we believe are requirements of being saved, For example I think we all agree on repentence as being integral to salvation. In other words, what is it that must be believed or happen in order for a person to be saved assuming they are going to die the next day, so that all those arguements do not pertain to this individual.

Hopefully, perhaps we will actually come to some agreements?!

And, no, this tape will not self destruct.!

dru said this on March 24, 2011 at 5:11 pm | Reply
- Good idea Dru and my answer is that I am saved by faith alone:
  
  “That if you confess with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.’ For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with you rmouth that you confess and are saved.”
  
  dmcal52 said this on March 24, 2011 at 7:11 pm | Reply
As for any rules, I only have one, Do not reply to others comments until this mission is done.

dru said this on March 24, 2011 at 5:21 pm | Reply
- I also agree with your proposal Dru,
  
  Yet it will make for a fairly short post here. I believe that scripture makes it quite clear as to what it is that’s required to receive Salvation, (and to maintain that position through the rest of it’s collective teachings.)
  The total acceptance of Christ’s work on the cross within our heart, which was done for the atonement of our sins would be the primary first step. I personally believe by what is taught within scripture, that this is the only way that one can begin to establish a relationship with God. This then places us into the position of of being “justified” in the eye’s of God, and begins the ongoing process of being able to establish that relationship as either one of His sons, or daughters.
  
  Now an individual is left with a personal choice. One where they will either desire to grow and develop intimacy within that relationship, and pursue that, or choose not to. This is the process of “sanctification”.
  If one dies of self, (ego, pride, self sufficiency etc.) as best as they can, realize that it is God that is their source, and that it is He that is at work, then God/Christ, through the Holy Spirit will change you more and more, from glory to glory, as time goes by into the image of Christ. It is essentially, a life long, on going process based upon “faith”.
  
  I would also like to acknowledge something else here.
  As I was in the process of responding to Al’s last post, and had delved into a historical account of the Rabbinical train of thought as it related to our debate. I came to a realization.
  This then led me to question the true motivation and intentions of my heart.
  
  Was I actually in the process of contending for God’s word? (Though I do believe whole heartedly in as to what I was going to express to substantiate my point of view.) Or, was I now only expounding accumulated knowledge, and in essence, only doing so to satisfy my own personal desire to attain affirmation, or out of say, a sense of pride? Perhaps this is something, that as we answer your question now Dru, that we all should take into consideration in the future?
  
  Blessings to all.
  
  Gregg said this on March 24, 2011 at 8:36 pm | Reply
Dru brings up a good point. If the bible translators can’t agree on what the scriptures mean, then how are we going to be able to be sure of what we are reading? Everyone knows that it is possible to make the bible say just about anything they want – kind of like statistics. What it come down to I suppose is way each of us prefer to interact with our maker. Take the top 20 TV ministers and you will find 20 different interpretations of the scriptures. And each one will truly believe they are correct. It doesn’t mean any one lives the Lord any less.
I’ve often wondered if God had some ulterior motive in making the scriptures so difficult to nail down, especially when it comes to prophecy. Even after prophecy is fulfilled most people fail to see it, even for thousands of years.
Perhaps He wants us to engage in discussions about it in order to get us to study harder and to spread the gospel. Some call it “Doing the Lord’s work” and I for one believe it is His wish. That is why I am even on this site.
So right or wrong, we are all here doing good works. The only question is will we be rewarded for them or does God not really give a hoot.
I think He cares, but that’s just me.
God bless, everyone.
And now, back to that supermoon…

James Giordano said this on March 25, 2011 at 5:51 am | Reply
- James,
  Is their a point of salvation you wish to make in there?
  
  dru said this on March 25, 2011 at 9:00 am | Reply
To All,

One thing can be said by everyone here, that salvation is from the atoning blood of Yahshua. We have all stated that at infinitum. Yet, because I, and others, endeavor to keep the commandments, our profession of faith in Yahshua is viewed as something less. Suspect, if you will. We don’t trust in the commandments for salvation, we just obey the Father and how he set this up. It is not trust in a commandment, but obedience to the one that gave the commandment. If I honor Yah through obedience in the way of the commandments and works, does that affect the degree to which I am saved. Yes!!! You all know the scriptures, your works will be judged and that will determine who you are in the Kingdom. The bottom line is, do your own homework. The scripture says to work out your salvation with fear and trembling. Reading a certain tranlation, which is basically someone’s opinion of what scripture means, is dangerous if it is accepted witout question. Nothing is perfect, but there are a lot of things out there which do more harm than good. You will be responsible for what you take in and accept as truth. James was talking about the reason things are so confusing as far as understanding scripture, and people getting so many different views from the same verses. Yah does not lay his treasure out in plain sight of everyone. It is reserved for those who search out diligently the meanings He intended, and for those willing to conform to His Word. We were even told to do the same, when Yahshua said “don’t cast your pearls before swine.” He keeps his treasure out of the hands of the profane. You talk about the discussion becoming heated. It is intense, but that is okay. I view everyone here as my brother and harbor no animosity toward anyone. In fact, just the opposite. My hope and prayer for all is only Yah’s best. This discussion is useful and needful. A lot of things are happening in all of this, with those of us involved in the discussion, but also to those who are watching and reading. If you think the discussions the Apostles and those who have gone before, were any less heated, think again. Passion dictates a level of intensity, given the life and death natrue of the battle we are engaged in.

Be Blessed in the Messiah

All said this on March 25, 2011 at 4:07 pm | Reply
- If anyone else would care to put their views into the above mission, feel free to do so. Come on Lindsey and Leatherneck and Marianne and others. I am just trying to bring some respect and love between brothers and sisters in Christ. Then you can go back to “working out our faith with fear and trembling” and verbal bullets.
  All glory to God.
  
  dru said this on March 25, 2011 at 10:28 pm | Reply
  - LOL I haven’t been following this…sorry! Just happened to catch name 🙂
    
    I back up whoever is right!! woo hoo! 🙂
    
    lyndsey said this on March 28, 2011 at 10:03 pm | Reply
We are saved by grace.

If we love the Lord, we will willingly obey because we love Him.

I love to obey the Lord.

I look for things that he desires, and I do them, just because I know this is something that pleases him.

This is past the written law, it is the spirit of the law that lives in me.

If I think God would want me to make every day a sabbath, I would do it, just because this is what he would want.

The letter of the law says the 7th day.

The spirit of the law says, “Come I am God, rest, and spend time with me because you enjoy my presence.”

If Saturday is best for one, and Sunday is best for another, I see them as the same, as long as your heart is focused on the Lord on that day you choose.

Marianne said this on March 26, 2011 at 1:50 am | Reply
- Amen to that Marianne.
  
  I happen to have a dear friend that is Messianic. He is an administrator of his own Christian website as well. He and his family maintain the Sabbath, all the feasts, and observances, yet he does not believe that they in anyway add to his salvation.
  They are instead, simply a part of his culture and heritage.
  
  He has posted many commentaries on his site regarding this topic, and believes fully that scripture states that the previous laws no longer apply, and that the New Covenant of Grace supersedes them.
  
  I personally have no problem whatsoever as to what day an individual wishes to observe. It is only when they believe that in doing so, that they are somehow adding to their salvation that has me concerned for them.
  
  Blessings to all
  
  Gregg said this on March 26, 2011 at 4:25 am | Reply
- ok, regarding the sabbath, I would add that for me I have found friday evening at sunset to saturday evening at sunset the best thing. I have been doing this now for a year and it helps a great deal in getting my priorities right.
  
  I very much look forward to Friday evenings and when we light the candles and say a blessing for everyone present it gives a sense of “beginning of rest”.
  
  I have figured out why G-d wants us to do the ritual of lighting candles and watching for the sun to go down because these form a habit-a good habit-and we are becoming aware of the day and the hour and for whom the day and hour is for-G-d.
  
  This is also teaching my children that a day is set aside for our creator and this gives my youngest son a chance to ask questions such as “why are we doing this” and “who is G-d” etc..
  
  When he is older (if we don’t get raptured outta here first lol) it is my hope that he will continue this and share this with his family as well.
  
  I can see him driving home from work and looking at his watch and seeing that it is friday and the sun is almost setting and that he will remember that time that his mother made him light his candle and say a blessing and thanking G-d for all of his blessings 🙂 In that moment he will remember his mom and his G-d-His creator!
  
  And it occured to me this past sabbath, that at a specific time each and every friday, millions of people (jews and messianic jews, etc) are lighting their candles in observance and honor of the G-d of Israel! How pleased He must be to have that kind of love and adoration shown to Him 🙂
  
  Mark 2:27And he (Jesus/Yeshua) said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: 28Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
  
  lyndsey said this on March 28, 2011 at 10:25 pm | Reply
Well, I have one encouraging point about our discussion here. We all agree that we are saved by the grace of the son of God. Whether the commandments are still in effect or have been reduced to suggestions does not detract from that fact. I don’t think anyone believes we will be punished for obeying them.
The more important question is in regard to the mark of the beast which all will agree will be a test of our faith. Whether you think it will be Sunday worship or a chip in the hand it is important to God that we choose wisely.
In both cases it amounts to submitting to the wishes of Satan. Either Sunday is his day of worship or electronic transfer is his method of banking, so which will it be?
Well the good news is that we still have time to figure it out. The mark is not in force yet. The question is, will we recognize it when it comes?
I personally do not believe in the 70th week of Daniel with a New World Order, an antichrist, a peace treaty or an RFID chip. But if it actually happens, I will know the signs. If I am forced to accept a chip and worship Satan, of course I will refuse. But if I’m right, and none of that will happen, how will we know we are in the great tribulation? If the next pope is the false prophet and he proclaims Sunday worship is a must for salvation (John Paul II already did that in 2002) how will that differ from what he and all previous pope have been proclaiming for 1500 years? With everyone still looking for a New World Order, the whole world might follow the pope.
It turns out there is a sure-fire way to know when we are in the Great Tribulation – the two witnesses. Remember those dudes? They will preach in Jerusalem for 3-1/2 years, with the power to shoot flame from their moths and keep rain from falling wherever they want. Then will finally be killed and lay dead in the street for 3-1/2 days and then will be resurrected just before Christ returns.
So if you see the witnesses, you will know the game is on. No New World Order, no antichrist, no rapture, then maybe it’s time to reevaluate your predictions. Simple as that.
So maybe I’m a crazy cultist, or maybe you will thank me later. Time will tell.
I will pray for us all.

James Giordano said this on March 26, 2011 at 6:43 am | Reply
I will leave two things for the list, They are:
acts 16:31 “…”believe on the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” Thus there is in this statement a belief, in the Lordship or divinity of Jesus, and that his work on the cross is sufficient to save us.
The other which I mentioned earlier, is repentence. Luke 13:3 “NO, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.” This Repentence is an acknowledgement of our inheritence of Adam’s sin making us unworthy of salvation apart from the grace of God, as manifested in the perfect sacrifice of Jesus on the cross.

I will sum up the mission later tonight. Perhaps we will be able to sing Kumbahyah together, and then resume our attacks.

dru said this on March 26, 2011 at 2:56 pm | Reply
Hey Dru,

Just for clarity about the past two posts you have written, I do agree, gernerally, with your comments about “verbal bullets” and “attacks”, but only as they apply to the different understanding of certain scriptures and to what their meanings are. They do not apply to the people (at least as far as I am concerned) who hold alternative views. I believe it is the same attitude with the rest of us who are involved in these discussions. If I believed it was other wise, I wouldn’t be responding to any of this. There would be no reason. I know the statements you made were kind of tongue and cheek. Just trying to make sure that those who are spectating don’t believe there is animosity betweeen all of us. We are truly brothers in the Messiah!!!!!

All said this on March 26, 2011 at 3:47 pm | Reply
Hello all.
I want to thank each and everyone of you that took part in the mission I placed before you. I must admit, this was a bit of a trick question. Salvation, is dependent on only two concepts: Repent and Believe in the Lord Jesus. the two of these concepts put together form what is known as faith. When we are living in faith, we are reminding ourselves of these two concepts, when we choose to obey God’s law, or praise and worship God, or love God, or are baptised, it is because of these two concepts that we are able to do it. any thing we do as Christians should lead us back to the cross, and our salvation.

Repentence is the acknowledgement of our sinfulness and unworthiness to be saved. This the result of Adam’s sin. The only thing we deserve is death and Hades for our sinfullness, and None of our works can save us.

Belief in the divinity of Jesus (AKA LORDSHIP). Since no man can Earn salvation not even a newborn, Jesus had to be divine. His sacrifice is the only sacrifice worthy of covering our Sin. Unlike the sacrifices of the Old testament, which God accepted when the people were repentent, they did nothing to get rid of the sin of Adam from humans. In other words they covered and forgave our sins from the past, but not our sinfullness. The reason for the Law, any law, was that our sinfullness might be exposed and lead to our repentence.

If your church accepts these two things as the only way to salvation, then that church is “true”. If your church adds other conditions to repentence and belief as a condition of salvation, it is in error, and faith is misguided. If your church takes one of these things away from salvation, then it is a false religion and Not Christian. The catholic church’s beliefs on salvation are in line with these two concepts, except for the fact that they do not believe in the sufficiency of Christs sacrifice to forgive all sins, Past present and future (this is the concept of Imputation) thereby adding works to forgive our sins. This church is in error, and in need of correction. Likewise, if a church makes claims that repentence has to be done a certain way, thereby making the belief in our unworthiness a work that we can credit to our salvation and must be corrected.
The Mormon church, Jehovah Witnesses, Islam, and any other “cult” deny that Jesus was God; these are all false religions. When you believe that Jesus was not God, You are either denying that man cannot save themself, (repentence) or that his sacrifice was insufficient to save us.

The last option denies the sinfulness of man. “I live a good life, how can God justify punishing me.” is the Mantra of this group. This is also known as secularism. Atheists, agnostics, Humanists, and any unbelievers fall into this category. (How many times have you heard that quote or something similar to it in conversations about religion.)

If your church falls into one of these three categories, it is not the True church (the bride of Christ), But if you personally believe in these two tenets of Christianity, then you are saved.

Al and James, It was hard for you to remember your repentence and I commend you for being able to humble yourself enough to take part in this. Gregg, you also had a moment where you relized the motives were not right, You were able to humble yourself and remember the cross an I commend you for it. Gregg and Marianne thank you for your input as well, and do not forget the cross. I especially liked Mariannes point of keeping everyday holy, though this is not a requirement of salvation.
When we remember God’s sacrifice, and our unworthiness, we are living by faith. The more we dwell on the cross, the more we can remain humble and love God with all our heart.
When we remember God’s sacrifice, and our unworthiness, we are living by faith. It keeps us humble, so that we don’t get set in our ways so much that we cannot grow in Christ. Understanding where each of us has come from by God’s grace, also teaches us how to love one another as Christ loved us.

All glory to God,

dru said this on March 26, 2011 at 10:29 pm | Reply
Hello everyone,
I’ve been looking into this discussion and I am having a hard time finding a major church or denomination that teaches it’s congregation that the ten commandments are no longer God’s law. The catholic church has removed the second commandment and changed the day of the fourth, but they still keep them (or try). I don’t know of any high profile TV minister/evangelist that preaches it either. I’ve listened to many – Oral Roberts, Billy Graham, Joel Olsteen, Pat Robertson and many more and never heard them teach that we can no longer sin because the law has been nullified (not including food laws and such).
Being a logical person, I wondered why if the apostles taught that all the laws were dead, why isn’t every modern church teaching this doctrine? They should have been teaching it for 2000 years, so why is it popping up only fairly recently? It reminds me of the rapture theory that only began in the 1830’s with the teachings of a single man. Also the Mormons come to mind.
Perhaps the problem lies in one’s definition of works. I don’t believe that obeying the commandments is work. As a former catholic I know that attending mass, confession, communion, tithing etc. are works that are considered necessary for salvation according to the church. Jesus Himself was a great worker, and we should follow His example. We don’t need to but I believe on judgement day, that is how we will all be judged. It won’t be a pass/fail system, we will all pass if we acknowledge Christ as our savior, but there will be a curve. We know that in the kingdom of God there will be some called “greater” and others will be “the least.” Our works will count for something, but are not necessary for eternal life.
As for sin, it still exists and without the law there can be no sin and without sin there is no need for atonement. Christ will return soon and take His earthly throne on the Day of Atonement, when the wicked will be judged and the righteous rewarded. There is no need for atonement unless there is transgression.
And what about the antichrist/False Prophet. He is referred to as the “lawless one” and “the man of sin.” That tells me that the law is still in effect in the end times. In fact I believe that the beast will attempt to get many to follow him into lawlessness with his mark.
And here is one last thing to ponder. After Jesus returns to set up His government on earth, do you suppose He will institute any laws, or will man be free to live however he sees fit? Will prostitution be condoned? Murder with an apology? How about speeding? It is completely illogical to think that even God can run a planet without rules. Do you think Jesus is going to throw out all the things He taught when He was first here?
This is why I will never believe that God cares so little about the laws He personally carved in stone that He would ever be willing to toss them out the window. Jesus said He did not come to change or destroy the law, but to fulfill prophecy and forgive sin for those who believe in Him. Change that interpretation as you like at your own peril.

James Giordano said this on March 27, 2011 at 4:25 pm | Reply
- James
  As Imentioned in the other post you left this comment on, try Dave Hunt and T.A. Mcmahon at the Berean call.com. T.A. Mcmahon was a former Catholic who came out of the Catholic church like yourself.
  
  Also, look for a bible believing church, and get involved in some of the smaller study groups. Interaction with fellow believers is more essential in the process of working out our faith than we imagine. I, for about the past ten or so years have looked for a church to belong to, which agreed with my faith and beliefs, and have finally found one which preaches the word of God. Though I do not agree with all that they preach, the essentials are correct. I know you have been strong on the need for the seventh day being the sabbath, and perhaps this is your calling to help correct the church on, but perhaps in your discussions with others you will find convincing proof not to observe the Seventh day as the sabbath. As you say, we will be rewarded for the works on earth that we do, but they will not be of our own merit, but rather given us by God’s grace. Galations 5:22-24 says; “but the fruit of the SPIRIT is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23.gentleness, self control; AGAINST SUCH THINGS THERE IS NO LAW. 24. And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.” This is what walking in the spirit entails, and these are the “works” we will be rewarded for, But no man alone can accomplish these things unless they are led by the spirit, and not by themselves.
  Paul also lists before those verses, the “works of the flesh”. there are two in particular that stick out to me with regard to the conversations we have been having, namely “dissensions, (and) divisions.” This is why I wanted to bring us back together with the mission above, bringing all of us back to the cross and faith.
  
  I sometimes wonder, if the church today is in such a state of apostacy because all the “true Christians” have either been kicked out, forced out, or left out. Perhaps it is time for those Christians to go back into those churches and correct and rebuke that apostacy, and if that church does not respond, move on to the next. The lord will then deal with and judge that church.
  
  I will exit this time with a verse: I peter 3:8,9 “Finally, all of you, have unity of mind, sympathy, brotherly love, a tender heart, and a humble mind. 9. Do not repay evil for evil or reviling for reviling, but on the contrary, bless, for to this you were called, that you may obtain a blessing.”
  
  dru said this on March 28, 2011 at 12:11 am | Reply
  - Hi Dru,
    I have also spent the last ten or so years studying the scriptures, starting as a Sunday worshipper, and have simply come to a different conclusion than you and many others. Tat is not surprising considering all the branches of Christianity out there. But as a person who believes that Sunday worship equates to the mark of the beast, I can not even consider going back. Even if a New World Order dictator tries to force me to implant a chup, I still won’t observe Sunday worship. Anyone who believes all the (original) commandments are still in effect can not condone Sunday worship. It seems that many people believe that the commandments can be changed as long as the person (disciple, pope) is holy enough. I feel if you believe in them than you must go with the source. Anything else just doesn’t make sense to me.
    I like your exit verse. It shows that how we treat others (works) will obtain us a blessing. These are the teaching of Jesus and I believe it applies to the law of God as well.
    Hopefully God will bless us all simply for obeying His command to spread the gospel and to prophesy.
    
    James Giordano said this on March 28, 2011 at 3:28 pm | Reply
    - James
      I like how Marianne put it above, I think God wants us to keep everyday holy. I do not believe that the commandments are changed, I am just trying to get you to strive for something more, believing from your heart, led by the spirit. this will make the law alive in your heart. Humility and submission to God are the key. A repentent heart is much more persuasive than a boastful one. the law helps lead us to repentence.
      In that respect I bless you, to keep believing what you believe in, but don’t stop there. The blood of Jesus has covered all our sin, This allows us to make every day holy. Rather than living one way during the week, and then another way for one day, we now can live everyday with a thankful and praising heart. These are the “sacrifices” we are called to give to God. These are the sacrifices that glorify God, as psalm 50 mentions.
      
      dru said this on March 28, 2011 at 4:14 pm | Reply
Hi James,

I think that by what you have said above, that the way that you logically work through things in your mind, is through a process of black or white acceptance, or elimination.
Though that process may indeed be beneficial in many respects, I believe that it can also be limiting in others.

The essence of the Ten Commandments have not been done away with.
They have however, been expanded upon through the Spirit.

An old adage that you may be familiar with is, “You don’t throw out the baby with the bath water.” Just because God implemented change, does not mean that He also eliminated the initial truths as well. Though a significant change has taken place, the previous truths, still apply and have been brought forward, expanded upon, and incorporated within the change.

That is why you have been unsuccessful in locating a church, denomination, or ministry that doesn’t believe that the Ten Commandments are no longer God’s law.
However, that does not mean that they don’t also acknowledge, that a significant change within those laws has not taken place.

To attempt to answer all of what you express above to be taken into consideration, would be a daunting chore. However, I believe that this is a journey that you should pursue personally.
I would suggest a form of “Systematic Theology” to do this.
Go to an online site like http://www.biblestudytools.com and utilize their concordance. Using say the King James version, key in the following for their search engine, (within the New Testament category) “Commandments”, “Commandment”, Law”, Sacrifices”, and
“Covenant”. All of these are necessary to encompass the topic we are discussing. Write down every verse that is displayed, (and yes there are hundreds of them.) Then take the time to read the chapters to understand them in context. By just specifically concentrating on this particular subject, you may just come away with a different understanding? Either way, I am sure that you will be enlightened in some respect.
Wishing you the best James.
Blessings.

Gregg said this on March 27, 2011 at 7:46 pm | Reply
Hi Gregg,
Turns out I’ve got that web site bookmarked (along with 75 others) and I have already put in my time in regards to the validity of the commandments. In other words, I didn’t come to my conclusions lightly. I think what much interpretation comes down to is assumptions. The same verses can be interpreted differently depending on those assumptions. For example, what parts of the Book of Revelation are to be taken literally, and which are completely symbolic. The mark of the beast is a big one, for example. Whether the law was “nailed to the cross” is another.
The bible is like a giant jigsaw puzzle and it takes a lot of study and quite a few assumptions to try to make it all fit together. When I read certain prophetic interpretations they may make sense by themselves, but they just don’t fit into the big picture. A Muslim antichrist is a good example.
But I continue to study and every so often I discover a new truth which not only makes perfect sense, but also fits perfectly with the rest of the puzzle that I have assembled so far. I study many pieces, but few are chosen for my puzzle.
So I always keep an open mind, but I doubt that I will ever come across anything that will totally unravel my prophetic tapestry. But I still read and consider other options, so I appreciate all the input I get here.
But as for me I will continue to say the Lord’s prayer every day, asking Him to forgive my sins and those who sin against me. No law, no sin, no need for forgiveness. Why say it then? Jesus taught it, I will obey it. Otherwise I disrespect Him. Anything else will not fit into my puzzle.
Praise god.

James Giordano said this on March 28, 2011 at 3:59 pm | Reply
- If everyone would like to really get challenged……
  
  this man insists that the current saturday and sunday assignments are not correct either…….that sabbath could occur on any day of the week. This is because God’s calendar is not the roman calendar.
  
  http://nccg.org/lev20110104.html
  
  this is because there are 29/30 days in a month, which starts on the new moon. 7 x 4 = 28, and so there are extra days to be accounted for.
  
  he uses examples from scripture to show people would fight for 7 days, and then rest. so the sabbath would end up on the first week of the month on the 8th day…then each after that is 7 days.
  
  so it is like this…..(RC means rosh codesh, or new moon)
  
  RC 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 …..8
  
  9 10 11 12 13 14 … 15
  
  16 17 18 19 20 21….22
  
  23 24 25 26 27 28….29
  
  day 30 = RC and you start over.!
  
  Marianne said this on March 28, 2011 at 4:23 pm | Reply
  - Marianne
    I’m not sure where your headed with this, but as Colossians 2:17-18 says “these (sabbath, newmoon, festivals) are a shadow of things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. 18. let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels (Mary), going on in detail about visions, puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, 19. and not holding fast to the Head(Jesus) from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is FROM GOD.” (parenthesis and emphasis added)
    Seems like, by your challenge, the Roman calender and rosh codex do not match up, and that we should be going by the newmoon to determine the sabbath day. In this respect, it could fall on any day of the Roman week as the roman week does not restart at the beginning of the month. I’d rather keep all days Holy and do the Lord’s work of spreading the Gospel to people and helping those around me. Much like Christ did, healing the man at the pool on the sabbath.
    
    dru said this on March 28, 2011 at 5:35 pm | Reply
- James
  To me, sin is not doing the will of God, instead replacing it with our own will (sinfulness: Read Martin Luther’s discussion on will).
  
  Christ, by removing the sin of Adam, brings us back into communion with God, if we allow ourselves to be led by the Holy spirit. We humans,however, have a desire to lead ourselves, or Put ourselves as the Head spoken of in Colossians 2:19. This is Blasphemy. This is why we must always come back to the cross and remember repentence and Christ’s sacrifice. This in fact is the purpose of the Communion in Church: “In remembrence of Me (Jesus)”. Bringing us back to the cross, and to relying on God and his will for us.
  
  dru said this on March 28, 2011 at 5:59 pm | Reply
- Hi James,
  
  I agree fully with what you said above regarding assumptions, or interpretations, in deciphering scripture brother.
  We all hope that the Spirit within us guides our mind and heart to what is actually a truth. And though I understand that when God the Father voices something, it can be comprised of many meanings, it is obvious that we as a body, don’t appear to have the capacity to put all the pieces of the puzzle together collectively.
  
  The early church, (the Way) though also filled with the Holy Spirit, required constant instruction and direction as well, even though they also happened to have the opportunity to be able to speak with the apostle’s face to face, for extended periods of time. I believe that we, here and now, are at a distinct disadvantage in that respect.
  
  Though the message of the free gift of grace through Christ may be sufficiently understood by those who responded to His voice, and who accepted His offer within their heart, the peripheral subjects are indeed all over the map?
  
  This is why I have left the lid to my spiritual box unlocked, and have just thrown my hands up into the air sometimes on many subjects, left with the realization that I just don’t possess the intellectual capacity required to make sense of it all. 🙂
  
  I am then left with no alternative but to simply leave it in the hands of God, and His knowledge of my heart.
  The condition of our heart and our faith that we place in Christ is the most important aspect to hold on to. That is the only thing that is completely secure in my box. All the rest we will eventually figure out, though I believe that will only be when it actually happens.
  
  Blessings to all.
  
  Gregg said this on March 28, 2011 at 6:49 pm | Reply
  - Gregg,
    A great summation. Thanks. I agree, sometimes we have to just leave everything in God’s hands and wait for the prophecy to unfold. It is important that we search for the truth, but we may never actually find it. But if we are diligent we will be able to recognize the signs when they do arrive. Therefore these discussions are part of doing God’s work which we are commanded to do. They are important.
    I am glad to hear that there are many folks here who are convinced that they will be raptured before anything bad goes down. If it never happens, at least they will have some ideas on what to do and how to avoid the mark of the beast etc.
    So the more we argue, the more we help other readers at some future time. I realize I’m not going to change anyone’s mind her, but that is not why I write. There is soul-saving to do here, so let’s argue on. Time will tell who is correct. The main thing is to be ready.
    Hopefully, thru the grace of God we will all be ready when that time comes.
    Bless…
    
    James Giordano said this on March 28, 2011 at 7:38 pm | Reply
I checked this guy out and here is why I’m not buying it.
His astronomical references are sketchy at best and do nothing to prove his point except they sound cool. That story about the object striking the back side of the moon and causing it to wobble is total BS – it never happened.
He pretends to have solved an age-old mystery that nobody else in history has been able to do. That should raise a red flag right there.
His whole idea that the 7 day week is not continuous is ridiculous. God established a 30 day month, not a 29-1/2 day lunar month. He gave no instructions to start a new week on day 1 based on the phase of the moon. If so the ancient Jews would have followed it and it would be in use today.
Whenever days have been added to the calendar, they have done so without changing the day of the week, only the day of the month. When the Jews added leap months to keep the seasons from drifting they added whole weeks, they never jumped or skipped a day.
And as for “Saturn”day being a day of false worship, that is also bogus. At the time of Jesus the days of the week were not named except for the 7th day, called the sabbath. In over 135 languages today, the 7th day is still called the “sabbath” eg, in Spanish – Sabbado.
Just because we call it “Thursday” doesn’t mean we honor Thor on that day.
Don’t be fooled by all the fancy charts and graphs either. They mean nothing. It’s what false prophets do to fool the ignorant.
God is not an idiot. He’s not going to make a commandment and then make it nearly impossible to figure out how to honor it. Unless of course you believe this guy is Christ’s end-time Elijah, sent to “restore all things.” Perhaps his mission is to restore proper sabbath worship before the antichrist begins his mark. He never really tells us what the proper days is, only that every religion has it wrong. Sounds more like he is saying we might as well just give up since we can’t be sure what day it really is.
Sorry, I’m still not buying it.

James Giordano said this on March 28, 2011 at 5:48 pm | Reply
- James
  Funny you should mention thor for thursday, yet you use the sun god for sunday in your arguments.
  
  dru said this on March 28, 2011 at 6:04 pm | Reply
Dru and James

I just put that link out there, because it seems to address the “correct” day of the week for those who choose to observe on a certain day.

For those who are not concerned about the day of the week to observe, this link would not mean anything to them anyhow.

Someone sent that link to me, and it was the first I had ever heard of this “calendar calculation.”

Marianne said this on March 28, 2011 at 6:40 pm | Reply
- Sure, lets add something new to the mix. 🙂
  
  Here is a great link, (I think) that covers this subject.
  
  http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Holidays/Calendar/calendar.html
  
  Blessings
  
  Gregg said this on March 28, 2011 at 7:09 pm | Reply
The reason I reference Sunday is because it was the day the romans held holy for their primary sun god mithra. When the emperor Justinian merged all religions in the empire into a single, unifying religion, he kept that official day of worship of SUNday plus many dozens of other pagan practices. If you look at many churches in Rome and even all around the world, the steeple (pagan) is adorned with a Christian cross sitting atop a golden globe that represents the sun. This was done to appease both Christians and pagans although many Christians refused to worship on the new day. A hundred years later the council of Laodicea proclaimed mandatory Sunday worship and slaughtered millions of saints who refused the church’s “Mark of authority” to change the time. This was the first mark of the beast and it will be repeated.
History confirms prophesy yet most deny it. Most people now believe that the last week of Daniel is yet to happen and refers to the antichrist. In reality, it was fulfilled by Christ 2000 years ago. Everyone will be looking for something that simply is not going to happen.
If you are looking for fulfillment, look first to the past. See where things went wrong. Learn the mistakes that were made. Don’t repeat them today.
Anyway, regardless of where the names for the days came from, they mean nothing today. I don’t claim that Sunday worshippers are worshiping the son. I do claim they are ignoring the true sabbath. Six days shall you labor and on the 7th day you shall rest. You know it is the longest and most detailed of all the commandments and it is the only one that begins with the word “Remember.” I think God knew that someday His people would forget.
And to think, now we have people who are trying to tell us to forget it.
As for me, I will remember.

James Giordano said this on March 28, 2011 at 7:14 pm | Reply
- James
  You will also see that I have had a consistent message of denying our own will and following God’s will. We are led by the spirit when we get out of the way and let it lead. God will also accept our sacrifices whatever day of the week we present them to Him. In fact, Marrianne can probably help me out on this one, didn’t Aaron make a bull sacrifice on the first day of the week? Also, were not the priests that were making the sacrifices on the sabbath woking on the sabbath? Aren’t we called into a holy priesthood? (sorry I don’t have the bible handy so as to reference these) Just some thoughts.
  I don’t know about the 70th week of Daniel, but it seems to me that 70 ad destruction could fit as well as endtimes arguement.
  
  On “quality carpenter wanted” in here I left a theoretical timeline for events, and how I think that both 1st and 2nd comings of Christ have similarities, and why. for example john the baptist vs. Elijah and Two witnesses compared to Moses and Elijah of NT. So I do not think that 70th week in relation to endtimes is a leap. Also I have heard arguments that the destruction of the temple does not fit with 70th week timeline? I’ll have to look into it further.
  
  dru said this on March 28, 2011 at 7:57 pm | Reply
Hi All,

Since we are talking about salvation and its components, there is something I would like to share with all of you. Dru, this is your definition of repentance;

1. Repentence is the acknowledgement of our sinfulness and unworthiness to be saved. This the result of Adam’s sin. The only thing we deserve is death and Hades for our sinfullness, and None of our works can save us.

I might add, to a very real degree, this is really close to the way the Greek in the New Testament is translated. So, your definition is in line with what the New Testament states.
I looked up every instance in the concordance for the word repent and repentence. Not each verse, but each of the different meanings given. They all stated pretty much the same thing, for the New Testament. The following are the different definitions of the different uses of the word repent in the NT:

Strongs #3340 To think differently or afterwards, i.e. reconsider(mor. Feel compunction):repent.

Strongs #3338 To care afterwards, i.e.: regret-repent (self)

Strongs #278 Irrevocable:-without repentence, not to be repented of.

I then went to the Hebrew in the Old Testament for the definition of the words repent and repentence:

Strongs #5162 a prim. Root; impl. to be sorry, i.e. (in a favorable sense) to pity, console or rue or (unfavorably) to avenge (oneself):–comfort (self), ease (one’s self), repent.

Strongs #7725 a prim. Root; to turn back(hence, away) trans. or intrans., literal or figuritively, (not necessarily with the idea of return to the starting point). NOTE: I did not finish this one, it is extremely long. You can look it up if you desire to.

The Hebrew word repented, Strongs #5162, is used in the the verse Genisis 6:6 where Yah basically stated that he repented that He had created man. You can see that this meaning parallells Strongs #3340 & #3338 in the Greek. Basically to regret or to think differently afterwards. Strongs #278 in the NT won’t apply to anything we are discussing. Just listed it to be as complete as possible.

Strongs #7725 is only used 3 times in the Bible (OT). These are the verses:

1 Kings 8:47-49 (King James Version)
47Yet if they shall bethink themselves in the land whither they were carried captives, and repent, and make supplication unto thee in the land of them that carried them captives, saying, We have sinned, and have done perversely, we have committed wickedness;
48And so return unto thee with all their heart, and with all their soul, in the land of their enemies, which led them away captive, and pray unto thee toward their land, which thou gavest unto their fathers, the city which thou hast chosen, and the house which I have built for thy name:
49Then hear thou their prayer and their supplication in heaven thy dwelling place, and maintain their cause,

Ezekiel 14:6 (King James Version)
6Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols; and turn away your faces from all your abominations.

Ezekiel 18:30 (King James Version)
30Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.

The context of the above 3 verses that use Strongs #7725 all deal with repenting of sin to Yah. In fact, the word means “to turn” and can be used figuratively or literally.

This is my question, why would the Greek translators use the Hebrew word nacham, of Strongs# 5162, which basically means to comfort self or ease ones self, instead of the Hebrew word shub, of Strongs #7725, which means to turn away from your wicked ways and back to Yah.

There is a period of time on the Hebrew Calendar from Elul 1 to Tishrei 10 (a period of 40 days) called the Days of Teshuva (days of repentance), which is the basis for the word in Strongs# 7725.

Going strictly by the Greek words that are used in the N.T. for repent, means little more than saying I am sorry, which is great, but why wouldn’t they use the corresponding word in the Hebrew, which gives it’s strongest meaning of turning from sin, when that is actually what the N.T. writers are talking about; turning from sin and back to Yah.

My opinion is, the meaning has come through loud and clear in the church. While there are those who understand what repentance actually means and walks it out, (despite the translators attempt to dumb the meaning of repent down) the vast majority, honestly believe they can live however they want and all they have to do is say I am sorry (to ease one’s self) and then go about their carnal ways, fully convinced they are doing what is required and they are heaven bound. In fact, repentance, according to Strongs #7725 requires action on our part. So, what does that say about the components of salvation? Maybe, we have some input into salvation afterall and it was designed that way from the beginning. Just a thought!!!!

Be Blessed

Al said this on March 28, 2011 at 8:07 pm | Reply
- Hi Al,
  
  Great question, and very well presented. Perhaps this link could provide an answer to it.
  
  http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Holidays/Fall_Holidays/Elul/Teshuvah/teshuvah.html
  
  Blessings & Shalom
  
  Gregg said this on March 29, 2011 at 1:21 am | Reply
- Al
  I have Kids, and when they do something wrong, the first word out of their mouth is sorry, because they fear the punishment for their actions. This work that is done to avoid the punishment is empty, and not heartfelt. If they knew that there was no punishment for their action, yet they are pleading sorry, this is heartfelt, because they are doing so out of love.
  Like wise, for those who are saved already, their is no condemnation for sin, for it all has been covered by the blood of Jesus; past sins, present sins, future sins. In this case, repentence is a remembering of Christ’s sacrifice that freed us from the bondage of sin, Our salvation. Remembering what God has done is not something we take credit for, Neither are our letting the Spirit guide our lives, so as to avoid sin. We choose to do so out of love and respect for God.
  For those who have not been saved, repentence is the acknowledgement of our unworthiness to save ourselves. Again, this is not a work that we can take credit for. When someone says the sinners prayer, and it is just viewed as a work, it is not heartfelt. But when they believe it, it is heartfelt.
  Linguistically, this is a hard concept to express, that is perhaps why there are linguistic challenges to this. Just everyday life teaches us how to discern whether repentence is done to avoid punishment, as my kids often do when they do something wrong, or when their sorry is a heartfelt sorry, accepting the fact that they deserve to be punished for what they did. In the latter case, I am more likely as a parent to show mercy and grace toward that child. For them to look back on that moment when I showed grace towards them, and then choose to do what I want them to do out of love and respect, shows maturity on their part. Not just them not doing something so as to avoid the punishment for their act.
  
  I hope this makes some sense, But if you are doing what the commandments say in hopes of avoiding punishment, then you are not living by faith, But if you are led by the spirit to obey the commandments out of Love and respect for God and his work of Grace, you are living by faith.
  
  dru said this on March 29, 2011 at 3:44 am | Reply
- Al
  Taken from the philosophical perspective, this is the difference between true virtue, and coerced virtue. In other words, when we are free to do good and evil, and choose to do good, this is considered virtue. when we are coerced into being virtuous either by reward or punishment, it is not counted as our virtue. Adam sinned by eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, by doing so, he sinned, and made it impossible for us to be virtuous. But this sin also allowed God to redeem us by his Grace, therby allowing us to be free to choose to do good or evil, and us choosing to do good. It is only by God’s grace that we are able to do this, But we are now able through faith to be truly virtuous.
  
  dru said this on March 29, 2011 at 4:02 am | Reply
- Hi Al
  I have found very good explanations for Strongs numbers in
  http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?strongs=G3340&t=KJV
  
  where at first outline of biblical use but also followed with wide explanations of the use of the word based on Thayer’s Lexicon and under these are listed all the verses using the word in KJV.
  By a separate clicking Trench synonyms can be viewed.
  After healing people Jesus spoke much more clearly, no dictionaries needed, “sin no more” .
  My simple undertanding of the repent means turning the back (turning 180 decrees) to the confessed sin in the connection to salvation. But repent is not always connected to salvation.
  
  Seppo said this on March 29, 2011 at 10:21 am | Reply
- Al
  There are clearly works that we are called to do after we are saved, Baptism being one them. This is when we receive the Holy Spirit and become part of the body of Christ. If you read the acts 2:29-41 you will clearly see that this work, is a remembrance of the death and resurrection of Christ, As is the communion. Though they are works that we do, if we do them with the wrong motive, they are counted as nothing. How many times do people get baptized into achurch so that they can become members of that church (the institution) rather than doing so because we want to be part of the body of Christ (true church), thereby remembering our Saviour’s death and resurection. Note also, that the Holy Spirit is a gift of God, as is salvation (Acts 2:38). Just because we are being baptized, does not mean we deserve the Holy Spirit or membership to the body of Christ. As verse 37 puts it, when the Jews heard Peter speak, “they were cut to the heart”. I don’t know of a better phrase to describe the definition of true repentence than that one. All our works as Christians should be motivated by this repentence. When we turn back to God, if we have strayed from his will, we are remembering Christ’s sacrifice. Like my kids above it is not that we say we are sorry (the act) but that we really are sorry (cut to the heart)
  
  dru said this on March 29, 2011 at 2:12 pm | Reply
My Brothers,

I appreciate your responses. But no one really addressed the question that was asked;

“This is my question, why would the Greek translators use the Hebrew word nacham, of Strongs# 5162, which basically means to comfort self or ease ones self, instead of the Hebrew word shub, of Strongs #7725, which means to turn away from your wicked ways and back to Yah.

There is a period of time on the Hebrew Calendar from Elul 1 to Tishrei 10 (a period of 40 days) called the Days of Teshuva (days of repentance), which is the basis for the word in Strongs# 7725.

Going strictly by the Greek words that are used in the N.T. for repent, means little more than saying I am sorry, which is great, but why wouldn’t they use the corresponding word in the Hebrew, which gives it’s strongest meaning of turning from sin?”

I know and understand what is IMPLIED by being sorry for one’s sin. I alluded to the fact that there are many who understand the implication and endeavor to walk before our Elohim in purity of life. But for the vast majority, they will follow the path of least resistance, just like water does. It is human nature. Most will not encumber themselves with unnecessary hardships if they find a reason not to do so. All of you know this. Do you really think that leaving man’s responsibility in the process of salvation, vague or implied, helps them out? This vagueness of what is implied puts the vast majority in a position of questionable salvation.

We are dealing here with a majority of people in the church who do not know the scriptures very well at all. They go basically by what they are told by the Preachers and Teachers in the church. Out of all this has come the doctrine of “once saved, always saved”. And all of this, in many instances, coming about by saying a 60 second prayer (or so), and then being told that they are saved regardless of even what they do or don’t do. Talking about implication! They supposedly, in their understanding, can live like hell but have a heavenly destination, based solely on their misconception of what is involved in salvation and scriptures that are extremely vague and open to personal interpretation. This compared to an extended time of being discipled that was in effect in the time of the Apostles, where they were told plainly what they were entering into and the cost involved in their decision, and their repsonsiblity. The confessional in the Catholic Church kind of says it all.

Yah did not give us the gift of salvation so that we find comfort or forgiveness in our sin, but rather to deliver us from our sin, by the decision and act of turning from sin and submitting to Yah, through the Messiah, for the power to accomplish this. The Hebrew word shuv (to turn) is actually used 1,066 times in scripture. The Hebrew word nacham (comfort for one’s self) is only found 108 times in scripture. Why choose the latter? Most of you say it is IMPLIED that we turn from our sin, but the end result of this vagueness, to the majority, it is IMPLIED, that we find comfort and consolation IN our sin. Basically, because Jesus did it all and we have no responsibility here. Don’t get me wrong, my Brothers, I don’t judge anyone. I don’t have the right or the authority to do that. But Yah does and will. This is nothing personal to anyone, just a needful discussion.

Again, I will ask the question, why was the word nacham (finding comfort for one’s self) used for the act of repentance, and not the word shuv, which means to turn from our sin? Are we to believe that in the O.T., before Ruach HaKodesh was given, they were told to turn from their sin, but after Ruach HaKodesh was given, and all that it means, that less is expected from us? I will leave it at that.

Be Blessed in the Messiah

Al said this on March 29, 2011 at 4:07 pm | Reply
- Al
  I think I did answer your question. Your just not seeing it. In the Old testament, there was no imputation. when one sinned, they had to turn from their sin. In the New Testament, the blood of Jesus covered all sin. We are no longer condemned by our sin. To repent for our sin, is to merely look back and remember the sacrifice of Jesus (a heartfelt sorry). When we are not doing God’s will, this is the sin of blasphemy, in that we are relying on Our own will. Repenting means we are submitting to God’s will.
  
  You write: “most will not encumber themselves unnecessary hardships if they see no reason to do so….Do you really think that leaving man’s responsibility in the process of salvation, vague or implied, helps them out? This vagueness of what is implied puts the vast majority in a position of questionable salvation.”
  Paul writes: “There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2. For the law of the SPIRIT of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. 3. For God has DONE (note past tense) what the law, weakened by the flesh, could NOT do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinfull flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh, 4. In order that the righteous requirement of the law Might be fulfilled IN US, who walk NOT according to the FLESH, BUT ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT….6. For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is Life and peace.” (Romans 8:1-4,6) Note the words in there “free”, “life”, And “peace”: these are comfort words, In fact the Holy Spirit is called the comforter. Yet you want to disqualify those who take these words seriously and replace it with your burdensome asceticism. The “YOKE” is on you, as they say! In Matthew 11:25- 30, Jesus puts it as follows:
  
  25. At that time, Jesus declared, ‘I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to the little children;
  26.yes, Father, for such was your gracious will.
  27. All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and noone knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son AND anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him.
  28. Come to me all who labor and are HEAVY LADEN, and I will give you REST.
  29. Take my YOKE upon you, and learn from me, for I am GENTLE and LOWLY IN HEART, and you will find REST for your souls.
  30. FOR MY YOKE IS EASY, AND MY BURDEN IS LIGHT.'” (emphasis added)
  
  Al, why would you want to burden people with legalism and guilt, when Jesus himself said his Burden is LIGHT? What is it that God revealed to the children, that was not revealed to the wisemen? A child understands the Idea of submitting and humbling ones self, and doing the will of the parent. That is the concept of faith. Submitting to a higher authority is hard for someone who thinks they know best and have it all figured out. It’s as simple as giving Control to the Spirit, Yet those who are wise will try to live by the law and their own will.
  Ironically, Chapter 12:1-8 deals with the sabbath.
  
  I pose you this question: If Adam did not have the law, and had no knowledge of good and evil, how is it that he was able to live in communion with God? I’ll even give you a clue even “he knew no sin”.
  
  dru said this on March 29, 2011 at 5:45 pm | Reply
Al,

I beg to disagree.
I did provide you with a direct and explicit answer to your question in the link above, which it appears that neither you nor anyone else for that matter, bothered to read?

Please take the time to read it. It would also be informative to all that are participating within this discussion, for it is on topic.

http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Holidays/Fall_Holidays/Elul/Teshuvah/teshuvah.html

Blessings in Yeshua.

Gregg said this on March 29, 2011 at 5:25 pm | Reply
- Gregg
  Thank you for that site. I am not one to always look into the original text, but rather tend to allow the Spirit to lead me as i read the Bible.
  It always amazes me when I see these difference in linguistics, that the Spirit leads us to discover when we allow the Spirit to do its work.
  In other words, Not having any knowledge of the Hebrew or Greek myself, the Spirit leads me to the same distinctions as were made in the original text.
  All glory to God.
  
  dru said this on March 29, 2011 at 6:18 pm | Reply
Hey Gregg,

I did read the article you sent and I appreciate it. But the truth is, the Greek word strepho is never used for the word repentance, repent, or repented. It (and various forms of the word) is used about 10 times in the Gospels and Acts for the different variations of the word convert. This is part of an article written by Robert N. Wilkin, whose studies are based on the different facets of Salvation.

IV. Meaning of Strepho Compounds
While they are never translated as “repentance,” the compounds of strepho in some contexts carry the idea of turning from sins. The basic sense of these compounds is turning from or to someone or something. These compounds are the true corresponding terms to the OT word shub.

“Turning to the Lord” is used in the NT, as it was in the OT, as an expression for faith and conversion.70 When Paul reported in Acts 15:3 that Gentiles were turning to the Lord, he was simply saying that Gentiles were coming to faith in Christ, were being saved.

Nowhere in the NT are these verbs used to indicate that one must turn from his sins to obtain eternal salvation.

V. Conclusion
I’m still not sure what the man at the athletic events meant by his one-word message on his T-shirt. The word repent has a well-defined meaning in English. However, not all who use it mean the normal dictionary definition. Some mean merely a recognition of one’s sinfulness. Others mean a change of thinking about Jesus Christ. Still others mean turning from one’s sins, a willingness to do so, or a sense of remorse over one’s sins.

I wish we could retranslate the NT. It would make teaching and preaching passages using metanoia simpler. It would eliminate the confusion many have when they read their Bibles and see the word repent. However, this is not likely to happen. It seems that “repentance” as a translation for metanoia (and metamelomai) will probably be with us for a long time.

In most cases when the English word repent occurs in the NT it is translating metanoia. Metanoia is not the equivalent of the OT term shub. It certainly does not mean “penance. Nor does it normally mean “repentance.” Rather, in the NT it retains its pre-Christian meaning of a change of mind. The English reader thus generally needs to read “change of mind “–not turn from sins–when he sees the word ” repent” in the NT. The context must be consulted to determine the object of a person’s change of mind.

Gregg, would be interested in your comments.

Be Blessed My Brother

Al said this on March 29, 2011 at 9:03 pm | Reply
- Hi to all,
  
  Firstly, I would like to apologize if my last post may have come off rather “snarky”. I’m going through a bout of the flu at the moment, so now I am old, sick, and CRANKY.
  Never a good combination. lol. Again, my apologizes.
  
  Unfortunately, though I would like to provide an opinion as an answer to your question Al, (and comment to you as well Dru, with more than just, “Yes, Praise God.”), I’m having problems concentrating, and putting more than two syllables together.
  It’s gonna have to wait a bit. I hope that is alright?
  
  Blessings in Yeshua
  
  Gregg said this on March 29, 2011 at 10:11 pm | Reply
IF you are trying to say something that has some meaning to the conversation or want any kind of repsponse, you need to send the message in ENGLISH!!!!!!

Al said this on May 29, 2011 at 7:50 pm | Reply
- Who are you talking to?
  
  dru said this on May 29, 2011 at 9:13 pm | Reply
Good post over at mary bostrom2’s blog:

http://mbostrom2.wordpress.com/2011/06/08/full-blood-moon-over-middle-east-june-15-2011/

Marianne said this on June 9, 2011 at 12:39 am | Reply
Not saying this is the sign we are looking for, but it is interesting nonetheless.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43406252

dru said this on June 15, 2011 at 10:05 pm | Reply
OK the eclipse is over.
Anyone have some idea what event was heralded by this eclipse?
Did it actually fulfill any prophecy?
Or just a lot of hype…
🙂

James Giordano said this on June 17, 2011 at 8:16 am | Reply
- James
  I posted that because of the fact that volcanic activity caused the moon to turn blood red. Not to say that event was the one in prophecy. my point being that global volcanic activity on a larger scale than the Chile eruption could be the culpret for signs in the sun and moon.
  
  dru said this on June 17, 2011 at 2:34 pm | Reply
- Hi James,
  
  The bible says that the moon will turn red and the sun will turn black. The volcano is just an example of how this could occur, since solar and lunar eclipses do not occur at the same time.
  
  Marianne said this on June 17, 2011 at 2:48 pm | Reply
- Hello James, Dru, Marianne, all,
  
  Just another bit of information regarding this event and that being, according to Mt.24:15 & 29, the chronology of events would first have the abomination of desolation being set up in the Holy Place within the temple, which we know takes place in the middle of that last seven years and then the event of sun being darkened, the moon turning blood red and the stars (metors/asteroids) falling to the earth would take place. And prior to the abomination being set up, the world would have seen the beast make his covenant with many for one seven year period, which is what initiates that last seven years. My point is, since we have not seen either of the two events that take place prior to the sun, moon and star event, then it would stand to reason that they must take place first.
  
  Yours in Christ
  
  Don McAllister said this on June 18, 2011 at 2:31 am | Reply
  - Hi Don,
    
    That is true. I would agree.
    
    Marianne said this on June 18, 2011 at 11:37 am | Reply
Sun rising in the North

Marianne said this on June 18, 2011 at 9:49 pm | Reply
- (jamesgiordano)
  Hi guys,
  As I have been saying all along, I don’t believe any eclipse will herald any prophetic event. Eclipses are too common and mundane and can not be seen by the whole earth. I believe the event will be a worldwide cataclysm such as a supervolcano or nuclear winter or meteor strike (Apophis) that will create a dust cloud around the planet which would darken the sun, moon and stars all at the same time.
  So far all the eclipses mentioned here have been a bust, as will the ones on Jewish holidays in a few years.
  Hopefully, everyone will get the idea and stop posting upcoming eclipses as if they have any biblical meaning.
  But I’m not counting on that.
  
  As for the silly video above, does anyone really believe this guy? Did the sun move 100 million miles or did the earth spin 90 degrees on its axis without anyone else noticing it? Did it rise today in the north where you are? Did it set in the south last night? Was it on the news?
  And where was this guy at the time? If he was in Iceland or the north woods of Canada and if it was about 1AM then the sun might indeed be rising where he shows it. I spent a year in Iceland in the navy and I experienced the midnight sun first hand. If there was You Tube back then I could have made a similar video and fooled idiots in the lower 48 if I wanted to. But then I’m not a moron You Tube yukster out for some kicks.
  I’m surprised that Marianne, a scientist, was either fooled by this guy, or thought it would be fun to pass on the joke to this serious-minded web site.
  But then, she still believes in planet X, so maybe I shouldn’t be too surprised.
  Sorry of the sarcasm…
  🙂
  
  James Giordano said this on June 19, 2011 at 9:15 am | Reply
  - hi james
    
    it is a challenge. Go outside tomorrow morning and see where the sun comes up where you live. Let me know.
    
    Marianne said this on June 19, 2011 at 1:15 pm | Reply
    - Hi Marianne,
      Well it’s 6:26 here in S. Cal. And the sun is just coming up – in the east, as usual. It is north of east since we are almost at the longest day of the year (Summer solstice) so it is almost as far north as it gets. After the 21st it will begin rising Furth and further south until the autumnal equinox, when it will set due east for everyone on the planet.
      So there!
      
      James Giordano said this on June 19, 2011 at 1:30 pm | Reply
      - ok. I noticed that the sun was somewhat northeast at my house also. I do not understand how he gets “north” on his compass.
        
        marianne said this on June 19, 2011 at 5:07 pm | Reply
God put al the answers to the parables in the Bible…..As for the sun, moon and stars parables the answer is in the Bible…
Rev 6-12, 13, 14…. And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

This this sun, moon and stars event happens as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs…..So read Hosea 9-10… I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: [but] they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto [that] shame; and [their] abominations were according as they loved.

And Nah. 3-12..
All thy strong holds [shall be like] fig trees with the firstripe figs: if they be shaken, they shall even fall into the mouth of the eater. The firstripe figs (Christians) have been shaken by the doctrinal winds of Koran and have fallen into the mouth of Satan the eater… Satan the eater as a roaring lion walketh about seeking whom he may devour…Chrislam is on his menu..

The sun being turned to blackness is when CHristians leave the truth of the gospel and no longer shine forth as the SUN…. Matthew 13-43.

The moon becomes flesh or blood….2 Thess 2…is about the great falling away from Christ..These become the sons of perdition.. These are called the man/men of SIN.. It means the men who sin the moon god indwells.. He indwells their temples (their bodies)…This is the moon becoming blood… These then proclaim that allah is above all gods…

These CHrislam CHristians are the stars that fall from Heaven. and are cast down to the earth…. Their names are no longer written in Heaven but in the earth ..Jeremaih 17-13..

This is much less complicated than trying to mix natural events and mens knowledge to find the answers to God’s parables..

If I am right we have three and one half years left.. maybe a little longer..

Incidentally the muslim messiah in the white house is who engineered the Christlam great falling away..

ruth said this on August 31, 2011 at 7:07 pm | Reply
- Forgive me, but this is yet another perfect examle of symbolizing what is meant to be taken literally, that is, the sun will literally be darkened, the moon will literally have the appearance of being blood red in color or darkened and the stars, that is, the meteorites/asteroids will be hitting the earth’s atmosphere. A good rule of thumb is that if the literal sense makes good sense, then don’t seek any other sense. That being said, there is no reason to apply symbology here as these events will literally be taking place at the 6th seal with the sun, moon and stars as are also prophecied in the following Scriptures. (Isa.13:9-10,34:4) and (Joel 2:10, 31)
  
  A good example of where the sun, moon and stars are to be taken symbolically is in Rev.12:1:
  
  “A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.”
  
  The word of God of course gives us the meanings behind the symbolism in the verse above for the sun, moon and stars as found in Gen.37:9-10. Another good example of symbolism can be found in Rev.1:20 where the stars are symbolic for the angels or messengers of the seven churches as seen in the Lord’s right hand.
  
  In Rev.8:12 at the 4th trumpet, the sun, moon and stars are to be taken literally, as they will be darkened by a third, that is, they will only be emitting 2/3’s of their normal light so that during both night and day the earth will be receiving 1/3 less light.
  
  One more example of symbolism would be found at the 5th trumpet where a
  star falls from the sky to the earth. The fact that this star is given the key to the Abyss to unlock it and is referred to as a “He” would show that this star is actually representing an angelic being.
  
  But here at the 6th seal, there is no reason to apply symbolism to the sun, moon and stars as there is nothing in the Scripture that would give indication to apply this as such and the events that are mentioned for them willl take place literally and exactly as described.
  
  dmcal52 said this on August 31, 2011 at 9:24 pm | Reply
dmcal..

Read Matthew 13-34 ..All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:and
Mark 4-34…But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples…

The original Bible never said the moon will be RED or there will be blood on the moon..It says the MOON WIL L TURNED INTO BLOOD,..
Satan is the moon god..The only way the moon can be turned into blood is for satan the moon god to indwell man…Hence the moon becomes blood…

About the woman in Rev 12. First this is not Israel but the Christian church…..She is clothed with the SUN…and she has the moon under her feet….Did not God say he would bruise satan under our feet….
Being clothed with the SUn shows she is shining forth as the SUN of the righteous of Matthew 13-34.. However the dragon’s tail (false prophets) drag one third of her stars and cast them to the EARTH…These are no longer written in heaven but their names are now written in the EARTH.. Jer. 17-13…These gloroius ones who shone forth with the sun clothing have turned their light into blackness because they have turned their feet out f Christ’s truths.. THIS IS THE CHRISLAM CHURCHES…Only one third falls for the lies of sin the moon god alias allah…

2 Thessalonians 2 is about the falling away from Jesus and the men sin iindwells.
They are called the man of sin….Think Chrislam…

Incidentally Rev 12-9 shows that satan and his angels from the garden of Eden are the seven headed dragon beast…

Paul also warned us of the coming deception like Eves in 2 Corinthians 11 -3,4,14.

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. WE ARE THE SEED OF THE WOMAN OF GENSIS 3-15…We are the ones who will help the Lord crush satan’s head… Crushing his head means to expose him down to his foundation.. His foundation is isihamel…

satan and his demons begin the war with the remnant in Rev.13…H e does not win…The truth will destroy him…

One more thing.. The crescent moon and adonrs everything Islamic is the exact same symbol of the ancient moon god name sin…Goes back to the garden of eden…but that is another story..History and archeology proves this…

One other little thing….Jude compared Cain’s doctrines to Balaam and korah’s doctrines..IT was the doctrine of sin the moon god….This is in the Bible…The golden calf was the symbol of sin the moon god…
Whe God told Cain SIN LIETH AT THE DOOR….He was reeferring to sin the moon god who professed to be the DOOR TO GOD AND THE HEAVENS.. He was the door to the astrology Heavens..Which set mankind on a course of idolatry, death and evil…HIS DAYS ARE NOW NUMBERED AND HE IS BEGIN EXPOSED FROM THE BEGINNING TO THE ALAH BEAST…

sORRY didn’t mean to write a whole book…lol.
..

ruth said this on August 31, 2011 at 11:21 pm | Reply
- Hello Ruth,
  
  Without going into much detail, the problem with the claims that you are making are the same errors that so many other people make in their interpretations and that by applying their own interpretation without Scripture to back it up. A good example of Scripture supporting Scripture is what I provided for you in the previous post. The Woman of Revelation 12 is said to be clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and wearing a crown of twelve stars. As I said before, God gives us the answer to the symbolisms behind the sun, moon and stars through Jacob’s response to Joseph’s dream found in Gen.37:9-10. In his dream he told his father Jacob, that the sun, moon and eleven stars came and bowed down to him, in which Jacob replied, “Will your mother and I and your brothers truly come and bow down before you?” Therefore, Jacob’s wives are represented by the Moon, Jacob represents the Sun and Jabob’s eleven sons (twelve tribes of Israel) represent the Stars, Joseph being the twelvth.
  
  As I said, we have to allow Scripture to interpret Scripture and not arbitrarily assign our own. For example, you stated the following in your previous post:
  
  ” Satan is the moon god..The only way the moon can be turned into blood is for satan the moon god to indwell man…Hence the moon becomes blood”
  
  In order for the above to be true, there would have to be something in Scripture to support Satan as being the moon god, but I have never seen any Scripture to support this. The closest you could get with this is the Babylonian pagan practices of sun and moon goddess worship, but then again, Satan is behind all pagan practices. The Sun, moon and stars related to the 6th seal must be a literal interpretattion, since there is nothing in this Scripture to indicate that thiese are meant to be symbolic.
  
  You also said quoted the following:
  
  “About the woman in Rev 12. First this is not Israel but the Christian church…..She is clothed with the SUN…and she has the moon under her feet….Did not God say he would bruise satan under our feet….”
  
  First of all, the Scripture does not state that “God would bruise satan under our feet.” What it does say is,
  
  “I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her’s; he will crush you head and you will strike his heel.”
  
  Jesus is the offspring of the woman and Satan struck Christ’s heel by Crucifying him, but by performing this, Jesus crushed the serpents head (Satan) because by Satan having the Lord crucified, He set us free from the sting of sin which is death. The law was Satan’s ammunition and Jesus disarmed him and the powers of darkness by meeting the righteous requirements of the law perfectly and thereby making the law of Moses obsolete and nailed it to the Cross as completed. Furthermore, since the wages of sin is death and Jesus paid the penalty for sins, but was himself without sin, death could not hold him and he resurrection, which is the meaning behind bruising his heel. In other words, Satan dealt Him a blow, but it was only temporary as He would rise again three days later. He crushed Satan’s head by redeeming us and taking away the law which stood opposed to us.
  
  You also said the following:
  
  “However the dragon’s tail (false prophets) drag one third of her stars and cast them to the EARTH…”
  
  There is nothing in the verse that would support the dragon’s tail as representing false prophets and this is therefore assumed on your part. The first clue that the dragon is represented by Satan is that it is said that the “Dragon and his angels fought back.” Then in Rev.12:8 the dragon is plainly revealed as being Satan by the following verse:
  
  “The great dragon was hurled down-that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray.”
  
  In the above verse, the word dragon, devil and Satan are used interchangably. Therefore, since the dragon is synonymous with Satan, the stars represent his angels that rebelled with him against God and at the beginning of that last 3 1/2 years, there will be a war in heaven where he and his angels will be thrown down and restricted to the earth, which is what is meant by “He knows his time is short” and it is during this time, times and a half a time that Satan through the beast will make war and conquer the great tribulation saints. (Dan.7:25; Rev.13:6-7)
  
  Also, the church is not even here during these times of the wrath of God. If you will notice, the word “Ekklesia” translated “Church” is used 18 times through Revelation chapters 1 thru 3 and is in fact the very last word of chapter 3. After this, the word “Church” is never used again within the narrative and from then on anyone who is a believer is referred to has “Hagios” translated “Saint,”but in the book of Revelation you will never see the these two words used together. Regarding the Woman being the Church, there is just nothing in Scripture to support this, but there is Scripture to support the interpretation that I gave earlier, which is the woman being the nation Israel.
  
  You said:
  
  “Whe God told Cain SIN LIETH AT THE DOOR….He was reeferring to sin the moon god who professed to be the DOOR TO GOD AND THE HEAVENS.”
  
  Again, this is completely applied by you without any Scriptural support. You are basically just assigning the meaning to what God told Cain in order to support your own theory. In telling Cain this, God was speaking in regards to Cain’s sin of murder and has nothing to do with the moon god.
  
  By saying these things I am not against you, but I do content for the truth of God’s word. It is not a good practice to go beyond what the word of God states by assigning our own interpretations to His word and so I would caution you to be thorough before making these statements and that because they would be considered false teachings.
  
  dmcal52 said this on September 5, 2011 at 10:23 am | Reply
dcmal
I always research and base everything I write on the scriptures… I also research history and archeology…
Here is the verse pertaining to Satan being bruised under our feet… Read Romans 16-20..And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [be] with you. Amen.
And also Revelations 12-17…”And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. “””
Satan makes war with the remnant of the SEED OF THE WOMAN …of Genesis 3-15..That war takes place in the next chapter..Rev 13…We are the remnant….Bear in mind it is not the Jews (except those who converted) that produce Jesus but the Christians… Born again with the spirit of Jesus…. Christ within, the hope of glory..

As for the false prophet being the tail.. Read Isaiah 9-15… “The ancient and honourable, he [is] the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he [is] the tail.”This is the body of the dragon beast… His heads claim they are god and his false prophet earth beast is the tail…Rev 13-1 shows his heads have the name of blasphemy.. And the earth beast of verse 11 is called false prophets in other verses.. This is the tail..

The seven headed dragon is Satan and his angels…The seven heads are the fallen angels…The stars of the woman’s crown are not the angels…The stars are THE CHRISTIANS WHO FALL AWAY….They are cast down to the earth ..This means their names are no longer written in heaven but are now written in the earth.. See Jeremiah 17-13..
It is also a possibility these same stars become the beast that comes out of the earth.. These have now become part of the dragon’s tail because they have been indoctrinated into Islam and now teach it and kill all who do not accept it.. or criticize it..

REV 17.10, 11…And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, [and] the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. This 7th king that was to come was Mohammed…. He also is to return as the 8th king..He is called madhi in Islam and antichrist in Christianity….These are the seven heads of the dragon…. I have much more to learn about these..But bear in mind the dragon beast is claiming he is god,,specifically the god of Abraham…Allah is not the god of Abraham but is proven by history and archeology to be the ancient astrology moon god named sin..
Incidentally the Christian church has been in tribulation since Mohammed walked the earth…and even before that…
As for the church being here…read Rev 13-7..And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
We are the remnant of the woman that Satan is making war on…He is overcoming many Christians..Have you not heard of the Chrislam churches where the antichrist Koran is placed beside the Bible and Mohammed is taught in Sunday school. I am sure the Lord is puking them out of his mouth…
Rev 3-16..So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

The only verse that supports a translation theory is 1 Thessalonians 4-17…Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Satan is the prince of the power of the air.. When Jesus returns Satan will be gone and then we will be in the sprit with the Lord….transformed.. This mortal will put on immorality…they corruption will put on incorruption

So join the fight….. Don’t plan on the translation vacation…

By the way… Genesis 3-15 the seed of the woman and the seed of the serpent is part of the prophecy of Genesis 1-26 whereby God said He and another entity would MAKE, (not create) men in their respective images.. Then read Matthew 13-35 through 40 and see how God and Satan accomplishes this….Both Jesus and Satan sow seed..The seed is the word of God… Jesus sows the Gospel and Satan sows the Koran which is his version of God’s words…. THese produce the children of god and the children of Satan.. Hence LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE… This sealed mystery must be understood to understand much of the Bible.. Few understand it…

Isn’t the word of God a wonderful challenging work of art…

ruth said this on September 5, 2011 at 1:35 pm | Reply
- Hello again Ruth,
  
  I understand that you base everything that you write on the Scriptures, but I am contending that your findings are incorrect, as I also spend much time in study and have done so for the last 40 years. I am only contending for I know to be the truth, which is always backed up by Scripture.
  
  You said:
  “And also Revelations 12-17…”And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. “””
  Satan makes war with the remnant of the SEED OF THE WOMAN …of Genesis 3-15..That war takes place in the next chapter..Rev 13…We are the remnant….Bear in mind it is not the Jews (except those who converted) that produce Jesus but the Christians… Born again with the spirit of Jesus…. Christ within, the hope of glory..”
  
  Rebutle:
  The problem with your claim that the church is the remnant of the seed of the woman is first of all what I had already mentioned and that being the woman is identified rightly in Scripture as the nation Israel and that because the symbols of the sun, moon and stars of Gen.37:9-10 match exactly with the sun, moon and stars in Rev.12. Also, the other problem that you have with the remenant of the seed of the woman being the church is that by making this claim you are putting the church through the seals and the trumpets of God’s wrath and the word of God is clear that we are not appointed to suffer God’s wrath, but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ (1 Thes.5:9).
  
  The remnant of the woman’s seed are those Gentile great tribulation saints that will be here during the time of God’s wrath and that because they will not have been ready at the time that the resurrection and catching away takes place. I challenge you to find anywhere where the word “church” is used to describe a believer from chapter 4 through the entire narrative. Don’t you find it interesting and curious that the word “Church” was used throughout chapter 1 thru the very end of chapter 3 and then is never used again? The fact that the word is missing after being used over and over again should send up a red flag as the absence of this word is not a coincidence, but is one of God’s clues.
  
  During that last seven years which is established in Daniel 9:27, God will be pouring out his wrath in the form of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. God will be bringing these judgments on the Christ-rejecting and the unrepentent inhabitants of the earth. The true church has already received Christ and has repented and therefore it would make no sense for God to build his church and then send it through his wrath to get them to do what they have already done. Not only that, but God does not punish the righteous with the wicked. And since the whole world will be experiencing God’s wrath, then the church must be removed and that because there would be no where to escape to. Now, before you use the Jesus said “You will have trial and tribulation” line, remember that these events are not your common trial and tribulations that come at the hands of men with the powers of darkness orchestratingi n the background and we know this because the Lamb is the one opening the seals. These plagues will be unleashed by God himself and will be unprecidented.
  
  You said:
  “As for the false prophet being the tail.. Read Isaiah 9-15… “The ancient and honourable, he [is] the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he [is] the”
  
  Rebutle:
  There is nothing here in Isa.9:15 to relate it to the dragon in Rev.12, as it only mentions that the head and tail will be cut off of Israel, those being the prominent men and the prophets, but there is no mention of the head and the tail being symbolic of belonging to a dragon and that is therefore assumption on your part. In other words, you read head and tail and simply apply it to the dragon of Rev.12 without any hint of the head and tail belonging to a dragon. As I said, the verse makes it very clear that the dragon in chapter 12 is undeniably, Satan, as it tells us that right in the verse.
  
  “That great DRAGON was hurled down–that ancient serpent call THE DEVIL and SATAN, which leads the whole world astray.”
  
  Do you see how the word dragon in the verse above is used interchangably with the devil and Satan? There is no mistaking this and to do so would be to ignore the obvious.
  
  You said:
  “The seven headed dragon is Satan and his angels…The seven heads are the fallen angels”
  
  Rebutle:
  Here again, Scripture is very clear as to what the seven heads represent and they are not fallen angels:
  
  “This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for a little while. The beast who once was, now is not, is an eighth king and is going to his destruction.” (Rev.17:9-11)
  
  So, here again Scripture supplies the answer as to the symbolism of the seven heads of the dragon. The seven hills is the headquarters of the woman who rides the beasts, Rome being literally built on seven hills. Another clue that the woman is Rome and her Babylonian pagan system, (Roman Catholocism) is the fact that in speaking of the woman who rides the beast in Rev.17:18, the angel tells John “The woman you saw is that great city that rules over the kings of the earth.” During John’s time, Rome was biblically and historically the city that ruled over the kings of the then known world.
  
  The seven heads are also symbolic for seven human kings. At the time the angel was giving John this information five of those kings had fallen, that is, they had ruled and gone. “One is,” meaning that king number six was ruling at the time the angel was telling John this. At the time that John was receiving this information, the seventh king had not yet come and that because king number six was still ruling and that when he did come he would only rule for a short period. Then the angel tells John that “The beast who once was and now is not is not is an eighth king who belongs to the other seven and is going to his destruction. This eighth king is the head that receives the fatal wound in Rev. 13 and is synonymous with that man of lawlessness Paul mentions in 2 Thes.2:3-4 as well as the antichrist that John mentions in his letters. This beast/eighth king is that angel that comes up out of the Abyss at the blowing of the 5th trumpet when those other demonic beings are let out to torment ment with the stings of Scorpions for 5 months:
  
  “They had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek, Apollyon.” In both languages his name is “Destroyer,” who should not to be confused with Satan, as these are two separate fallen angels that will be working together. Major references for the beast: (Rev.9:11; 11:7; 13:3-8,13-18; 14:9-11; 16:2,10-13; 17:8-18; 19:19-20; 20:10)
  
  You said:
  “The stars of the woman’s crown are not the angels…The stars are THE CHRISTIANS WHO FALL AWAY….They are cast down to the earth”
  
  Rebutle:
  You are correct, the stars of the woman’s crown are not angels, but are not Christans either. These twelve stars represent the twelve tribes of Israel, which match the eleven stars that bowed down to Joseph in his dream of Gen.37:9-10, Joseph being the twelvth star. However, the stars mentioned that the dragon hurls to the earth are fallen angels, which is represented by satan and his angels being thrown out of heaven and restricted to the earth. More details of Satan’s rebellion and his trafficing of the angels can be found in Isa.14:12-15; Ezk.13:19 and 12:7-9. Furthermore, no where in Scripture is there any mention of those faithful who have already been caught up into heaven as being thrown out, because I am pretty positive that if they were going to be thrown out, they would have never been allowed up there in the first place. There is absolutely no Scripture to support this theory. Scripture makes if very clear that those who are being thrown out of heaven are Satan and his angels.
  
  You said:
  “As for the church being here…read Rev 13-7..And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.”
  
  Rebutle:
  Like so many do, you confuse the church here with the great tribulation saints of that time, as these are two different groups. I challenge you again to find anywhere where the word church is used to describe the saints after the end of chapter 3. The saints that the beast makes war with and conquers are as follows:
  
  “Then one of the elders asked me, ‘These in white robes–who are they, and where did they come from?’ I said, ‘Sir, you know.’ And he said, ‘These are they who have come out of the great tribulation:’ ”
  (Dan.7;25; Rev.7:12-17; 13:7; 14:12-13; 15:1-3; 20:4-6)
  
  You said:
  “We are the remnant of the woman that Satan is making war on…He is overcoming many Christians..Have you not heard of the Chrislam churches where the antichrist Koran is placed beside the Bible and Mohammed is taught in Sunday school. I am sure the Lord is puking them out of his mouth”…
  
  Rebutle:
  The remnant doesn’t appear until that last 3 1/2 years prior to Christ’s return, as Dan.7:25 makes clear stating that the saints are handed over to the beast for a time, times and a half a time, that is, one year, two years and half a year., totaling 3 1/2 years. The claim that you are making that the Koran being placed next to the bible in Sunday school is simply being applied by you as the fulfillment of that Scripture, but there is nothing in Scripture that would support that as being the meaning behind it. Again, these are the great tribulation saints (not the church) that the beast will be making war against and conquering. The way that he does this is because the saints will not worship him nor his image nor receive his mark and they willl keep the testimony of Jesus and the word of God. And because of their faith, they will be killed, ergo, he makes war against and conquers them. This calls for the patient endurance on the part of the saints.
  
  You said:
  “The only verse that supports a translation theory is 1 Thessalonians 4-17…Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
  
  Rebutle:
  Just FYI, 1 Thes.4:17 is not the only place where the catching away of the living in Christ is mentioned: as it is also revealed in 1 Cor.15:50-53.
  
  “Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed–in a flash, int the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be reaised imperishable, and we will be changed.”
  
  So here, paul brings out something that has previously not been known referred to as a “Mystery” and that mystery is that we will not all sleep, that is, we will not all be dead, but those who are still living will be changed where they stand and caught up with those dead in Christ who will have just been resurrected. Again I contend that the resurrection of the living and the dead of the church cannot take place when Jesus returns at the end of the age to set up his millennial kingdom because that would put the church through all of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments which is the wrath of God of which we are not appointed to suffer.
  
  You said:
  “So join the fight….. Don’t plan on the translation vacation”
  
  Rebutle:
  I am already in the fight and have been for 40 years. Regarding the “Translation vacation” as you call it, this is what every living Christian should be anticipating and watching for, as it is part of our faith to anticipate him coming to take us back to the Father’s house. After Paul outlines the resurrection and catching away, he then says, “Therefore encourage each other with these words” He says this in order to comfort those who were concerned with those who had died that they would see them again in the resurrected and also to be comforted that those living at the time that the resurrection takes place would not have to worry about God’s coming wrath, for Paul says:
  
  “While people are saying, ‘Peace and safety,’ destruction will come on them sudedenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. But you, brothers, are not in darkeness so that this day should suprise you like a thief.”
  
  They, the unbelievers, those who reject Christ, will not escape, but we believe and are walking in him, will. You can fight the good fight and anticipate his promise of removing us from the earth at the same time you know, as It doesn’t have to be just one or the other. Furthermore, my faith is not based on when the resurrection and catching away takes place, but on the shed blood of Christ. So, even if we were to go through the wrath of God as you say, I would be prepared to go through whatever persecution or even death if that was the way that I was to glorify God. What will be taking place during that time will be God’s wrath and we will simply not be here for it.
  
  So, I watch for the promise of His descending from heaven with the voice of the acrhangel and the trumpet call of God where we which remain and are still alive will be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye and will be caught up with the resurrected dead where we will be taken back to the Father’s house as promised in John 14:1-3.
  
  We have been and are currently living in a time of freedom of faith, but that door is closing quickly. The proof is in the pudding as that say, for when persecution and the threat of death comes to those who have the testimony of Christ, then we will see who are the true son’s of God and who are not. For when persecution and death enter the mix, then the word of God says that, at that time many will turn away from the faith. We should all be praying that God would give us the strength to be prapared to go through persecution and death if that is our fate. We should have the same attitude as Shadrach, Meshach and Abedneggo who would rather be thrown into the blazing fire opposed to saving their own lives and sin against God.
  
  Yours in Chirst
  
  dmcal52 said this on September 6, 2011 at 12:00 am | Reply
  - Don
    Sorry to jump in on your conversation. If you look at all the verses which have the word “hagios” in them, I think you will come to a quite different definition of who the “saints” are. Paul in particular is careful to distinguish the “saints” from the general assembly or the church. I know “alienated” could not see this distinction, but once you truly understand who they are revaltion 12 makes a lot more sense, and it does not nullify the pre trib rapture.
    
    dru said this on September 6, 2011 at 1:55 am | Reply
Almost forgot to say that Rev 12-9 says the dragon and his seven heads is called that OLD SERPENT.. IT is because he really was the same serpent that deceived Eve… 2 Corinthinans 11-3,4,14 shows we will be tempted with the same deception as Eves…Did not God say he declared the end from the beginning…
The two trees can be likened to the two gospels.. Christ’s Gospel and antichrist Koran gospel…IF you choose the wrong gospel you lose God’s spirit and become like Satan…Genesis 3-22….Cain is an example..He was a liar and a killer…

Is it a coincidence that God told Cain.. SIN LIETH AT THE DOOR…And The Bible proves Cain worshipped the astrology lore of which Sin the moon god was the door to the astrology heavens as proven by the Bible, archeology and history..
Jude 1-11..Woe unto them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core. ….Balaam and Core tried to seduce the Jews with the astrology lore…The golden calf was symbol of the moon god sin…Jude says these WENT IN THE WAY OF CAIN…which shows Cain worshiped the astrology lore of which Sin the moon god was the door to the Heavens…This is counterfeit of Jesus who is the door…
.Please show me in scripture where Jesus bruised Satan’s head by his death….I do not think you can do it…

Genesis 3-15…And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel. These seeds can also be as the two gospels…The gospel of Christ and the antichrist gospel of Satan ..Luke 8-11.. THE SEED IS THE WORD OF GOD…

The gospel of Christ bruise’s the serpents head…Hab 3-13. Thou wentest forth for the salvation of thy people, [even] for salvation WITH thine anointed; thou woundedst the head out of the house of the wicked, by discovering (exposing) the foundation unto the neck. Selah. The foundation is Mohammed-Ishmael… The Gospel of Christ exposes all the lies of Islam

Satan bruises the heel….
Remember our feet are CLAD WITH THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST.. When we believe Koran lies our feet become unshod and turned out of the way..

Romans 16-20…And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [be] with you. Amen.
This verse is about those who feet remain shod with the Gospel of Christ..

Satan’s head is bruised under our feet specifically because our feet are shod with the Gospel of Christ and the Gospel of Christ exposes all the lies of Satan’s Islam…

Matthew 13 -35 through 40 is about the seed which is the word of God and Satan’s seed with is his version of the word of god…these seeds produces god’s children and Satan’s children..

I learned as a small child that all men are like Adam… Their understanding of good and evil is wrong.. Genesis 3-15.. Therefore when I sought truth.. I did not seek it from man, nor did I seek it from my own understanding.. I sought it from Jesus aid I waited until he revealed it.. Once he took maybe 30 years to answer a specific question…That question was concerning original sin…. But I had much to learn in order to understand the answer so it took 30 years before He answered me.. ..I always rely on Scripture, never on man to understand what God has written… I have found that people once they believe a lie from man cannot move on in their understanding of Scripture.. The lie impedes it…Like the lie or half truth.. That God was speaking to Jesus in 1-26….Not understanding this mystery stops people from understanding much in the Bible…..Again I say read Matthew 13-35 through40….Jesus tells us he is expounding the mystery sealed since the foundation of the world…and then HE expounds it…I still have much to learn… As do you…

ruth said this on September 5, 2011 at 2:57 pm | Reply
- THE “SEED” HERE – WRITTEN OF IN GENESIS ……… IS THE “MALE” “SPERM” – THE “SPERM” OF THE MAN.
  
  IN THE GARDEN …… EVE HAD “SEX” WITH THE SERPENT (SATAN) AND ADAM “JOINED” “IN” WITH HIS WIFE AND THE SERPENT (SATAN) – BASICALLY ADAM AND EVE HAD SEX WITH THE SERPENT.
  
  BECAUSE, AS IT SAYS IN GOD’S WORD …… THAT THE SERPENT BEGUILED EVE – THAT MEANS THAT (SATAN) HAD SEX WITH EVE.
  
  AND ADAM JOINED IN WITH HIS WIFE AND THE SERPENT.
  
  STUDY THE TRUE WORD OF GOD WITH PASTOR ARNOLD MURRAY AT http://www.shepherdschapel.com
  
  mary e. waltimyer said this on March 14, 2014 at 2:37 pm | Reply
dmcal
Since you believe you will be whisked away soon you probably do not know what or who antichrist was during the apostles lifetimes and who and what (they ) are today…
Since you won’t be here you have no need of this knowledge.. But I will give yo one scripture which identifies the antichrists of today.. It is 2 Corinthians 11, 4,14..Paul tells us that satan will come as an angel of light with another Gospel that teaches another Jesus and another Spirit…As John said this other Jesus will not be son of God and this other spirit will not be father … That should make it pretty simple if you want to find the identity..

Do you also understand that the beast of Rev 13…is satan’s kingdom.. Rev 16-10….It is a complete counterfeit of God’s kingdom.. The dragon and his seven heads are the counterfeit of God’s spirit… The beast is a counterfeit of the Christ….The earth beast also called false prophets are the congregation.. The earth beast are those who convince the world that the dragon beast is god..specifically the god of abraham…

Revelation 13-1 and revelations 20-8 shows that the beast is commmprised of the men who are numbered as the SAND of the sea..
Ishmael s descendants are numbered as the sand of the sea….
Rev 13-1 shows John is standing on thee SAND OF THE SEA…The broad way of Matthew 7 is built on SAND…Do you suppose God’s memory is so small he forgot about Ishame being numbered as the SAND OF THE SEA when John worte of these things..??
Another amazing coincidence is that antichrist denies Jesus is son of God and god is father as did Mohammed, koran and all muslims…

You probably won’t beleive this either.. your loss..

Ruth Cullison said this on September 6, 2011 at 3:11 am | Reply
- Hi Ruth,
  
  I will leave you to your interpretations then and that because you continually display the inability for proper exegetical understanding.
  
  dmcal52 said this on September 7, 2011 at 1:22 am | Reply
- AS IT SAYS IN GOD’S WORD ……. THERE IS NO RAPTURE !!!!!!!!
  
  WE – AS CHRISTIANS – ARE NOT GOING TO “FLY” “AWAY” !!!!!!!!
  
  STUDY THE TRUE WORD OF GOD WITH PASTOR ARNOLD MURRAY AT http://www.shepherdschapel.com
  
  AT THE 7TH TRUMP – THE LORD IS GOING TO BE COMING (DOWN) HERE TO US …….. WE ARE NOT GOING TO BE “FLYING” “AWAY” – ANYWHERE !!!!!!!!
  
  mary e. waltimyer said this on March 14, 2014 at 2:41 pm | Reply
So Marianne Is there a reason you used my last name??????

Ruth Cullison said this on September 6, 2011 at 3:17 am | Reply
- Ruth,
  
  Revelation 1:19 reads, “Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;” therefore since there is no mention whatsoever of any of the following narrative as being a history lesson, Revelation 12 can not be representative to that of the Christian church, neither then can the Male Child that is caught up to the throne, be representative to that of the Messiah either.
  I believe that the Male Child is speaking of the 144,000 that are also caught up and referenced in Rev. 7. and Rev 14.
  I believe that you, have completely left out the Covenant that God the Father has made with Israel and have taken “replacement theology” or “supersessionism” to its extreme.
  
  Regarding the supposed “Sand of the Sea” connection that you attempt to correlate from Rev. 13:1 & 20:8. Rather laughable thanks.
  
  In respects to the Rapture or catching away.
  There ample scripture to substantiate this event. Please consider the following 50 points.
  
  50 Evidences for a Pre-Trib Rapture.
  Historical Doctrine of Imminence.
  
  1. The early church believed in the imminence of the Lord’s return. While it can be debated which church father said what, there is a consistency in the early church on imminency which is essential to the pre-trib position and in opposition to some other positions.
  
  2. The Pre-trib position is the ONLY one which truly teaches imminency.
  
  3. The fact that there is a greater development of the doctrine in recent centuries does not preclude it from the early centuries. In the very early years of the church you see the development of great fundamentals doctrines of Trinity, Deity, God-man, canon of Scripture, etc. Following those early church councils is a time of decline in the corporate church into great apostasy. The teaching of that time are built on many of the heresies of Augustine. When the Reformation comes, there is a period of reestablishing the foundational doctrines of salvation. Now, in these last days there is both and ability and a need in the church to better understand the doctrines of eschatology and the Spirit is continuing His ministry of guiding the church in all truth.
  
  4. The exhortation to be comforted by the “coming of the Lord” (1Thes 4:18) is valid only in the context of the pre-trib view. It could even be a fearsome thing in a post-trib view.
  
  5. We are exhorted to look for the “Glorious Appearing of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.” (Titus 2:13) If there are any prophetic events (ie: tribulation) to come first, then this passage is nonsensical.
  
  6. Again, we are to “purify ourselves” in view of his coming.(1 John 3:2-3) If his coming is not imminent then the passage is meaningless.
  
  7. The church told *only* to look for the Coming of Christ. It is Israel and the tribulation saints that are told to look for signs.
  
  Nature of the Church
  
  (Those who do not understand the nature of the church as unique in the program of God will continually be confused about the nature of His coming for the church.)
  
  8. The translation of the church is never mentioned in any context dealing with the second coming of Christ at the end of the Tribulation.
  
  9. The church is “not appointed to wrath” (Rom 5:9; 1 Thes 1:9-10) The church cannot enter into the “great day of their wrath.”
  
  10. The Church will not be “overtaken by the Day of the Lord.” (1 Thes 5:1-9) (Day of the Lord is another term for the great tribulation.)
  
  11. The church will be “kept from the hour of testing that shall come upon all the world.” (Rev. 3:10)
  
  12. The believer will escape the tribulation (Luke 21:36).
  
  13. It is in the character of God to deliver His own from the greatest times of trial. (Lot, Rahab. Israel, Noah,etc)
  
  14. It is clear that there is a time interval between the translation of the church and the Return of Christ. (John 14:3)
  
  15. Only the pre-trib position does not divide the Body of Christ on a works principle as does partial rapture does so clearly and others to a lesser extent. It becomes a climatic finale to the grand plan of salvation by grace alone.
  
  16. The Scriptures are adamant that the church is undivided. In this age the church is divided by the continuing old nature in the believers. When we are glorified at the coming of Christ, the church is no more divided.
  
  17. The godly remnant of the tribulation has the attributes seen in OT Israel and not the church. The church is not present in the prophecies of Revelation.
  
  18. The pre-trib view, unlike the post-trib view does not confuse terms like elect and saints which apply to believers of all ages, as opposed to terms like church and in Christ, which apply only to those who are the body of Christ in this age.
  
  The Work of the Holy Spirit
  
  19. The Holy Spirit is the Restrainer of evil in the world. He cannot be taken out as prophesied unless the church which is indwelt by the Holy Spirit is taken out.
  
  20. The Holy Spirit will be taken out before the “lawless one” is revealed. That lawless one will certainly be revealed in the tribulation. In fact, the tribulation begins with the signing of the covenant between that lawless one and Israel. That act will reveal him.
  
  21. The “falling away” in 2 Thes 2:3 would better be understood in its context as “the departure.” This is a reference to the departure of the Holy Spirit as He indwells the church.
  
  22. The work of the Holy Spirit making the church like Christ where they submit to death and persecution, whereas the OT saints (see many of the Psalms) and the tribulations saints cry out for vengeance (Rev 6:10)
  
  The Hermeneutical Argument
  
  23. Only the pre-trib view allows for a truely literal interpretation in all of the OT & NT passages regarding the great tribulation.
  
  24. Only the pre-trib position clearly distinguishes the church and Israel and God’s dealing with each. The Necessity of an Interval of Time between the Rapture and the Second Coming
  
  25. All believers must appear before the Judgment Seat of Christ (2 Cor 5:10). This event is never mentioned in the account of events surrounding the second coming.
  
  26. The “four and twenty elders” in rev 4:1-5:14 are representative of the church. Therefore it is necessary that the church, undivided, be brought to glory before those events of the tribulation.
  
  27. There is clearly a coming of Christ for his bride before the second coming to earth. Rev 19:7-10.
  
  28. Tribulation saints are not translated at the second coming of Christ but carry on ordinary activities. These specifically include farming, construction, and giving birth. (Is 65:20-25).
  
  29. The Judgment of the Gentile nations following the second coming (Mat 25:31-46) indicates that both the saved and the lost are in a natural body which would be impossible if the translation had taken place at the second coming.
  
  30. If the translation took place at the same time as the second coming, there would be no need to separating the sheep from the goats at the subsequent judgment. The act of the translation would be the separation.
  
  31. The Judgment of Israel (Ez 20:34-38) occurs after the second coming and requires a regathered Israel. Again, the separation of the saved and the lost would be unnecessary if all the saved had previously been separated by a translation at the second coming.
  
  Differences between the Rapture and the Second Coming.
  
  32. At the Rapture, the church meets Christ in the air. At the second coming, Christ returns to the Mt of Olives.
  
  33. At the time of the Rapture, the Mt of Olives is unchanged. At the second coming it is divided forming a valley east of Jerusalem.
  
  34. At the time of the rapture, saints are translated. No saints are translated at the time of the second coming.
  
  35. At the time of the rapture, the world is not judge for sin, but descends deeper into sin. At the second coming, the world is Judged by the King of kings.
  
  36. The translation of the church is pictured as a deliverance from the day of wrath, whereas the coming of Christ is a deliverance for those who have suffered under severe tribulation.
  
  37. The rapture is immanent whereas there are specific signs which precede the second coming.
  
  38. The translation of living believers is a truth revealed only in the NT. The second coming with the events surrounding it is prominent in both OT and NT.
  
  39. The rapture is only for the saved, while the tribulation and second coming deals with the entire world.
  
  40. No unfulfilled prophecy stands between the church and the rapture. Many signs must be fulfilled before the second coming of Christ.
  
  41. No passage in either OT or NT deals with the resurrection of the saints at the second coming nor mentions the translation of living saints at that same time.
  
  The Nature of the Tribulation
  
  42. Only the pre-trib view maintains the distinction between the “great tribulation” and the tribulations in general which we all experience.
  
  43. The great tribulation is properly understood in the pre-trib view as a preparation for the restoration of Israel. (Deut 4:29-30. Jer 30:4-11, Dan 9:24-27, Dan 12:1-2)
  
  44. Not one single passage in the OT which discusses the tribulation, mentions the church.
  
  45. Not one single passage in the NT which discusses the tribulation, mentions the church.
  
  46. In contrast to mid trib or pre-wrath views, the pre-trib view offers an adequate explanation for the beginning of the great tribulation in Rev 6. These others are clearly refuted by the plain teaching of Scripture that the great tribulation begins long before the 7th trumpet of Rev 11.
  
  47. There is no proper groundwork provided that the 7th trumpet of Rev is the last trumpet of 1 Cor 15. It is accepted only on the basis of assumption. The pre-trib view maintains the proper distinction between the prophetic trumpets of the church and the trumpets of the tribulation.
  
  48. The Unity of Daniel’s 70th week is maintained by the pre-trib view. By contrast, the mid-trib view destroys the unity and confuses the program for Israel and the church. The post trib view usually denies the clear teaching of the 70th weeks by subverting it into some form or another of allegory.
  
  49. The gathering of saints after the tribulation is done by angels whereas the gathering of the church is done by “The Lord Himself.”
  
  50. Rev 22:17-20 And the Spirit and the Bride say come. And he that heareth, let him say come … He who testifieth of these things saith.
  
  Be Blessed
  
  PS. Marianne wouldn’t have had anything to do with your last name appearing above. That would have been something that you would have accomplished all on your own.
  
  alienated said this on September 6, 2011 at 5:32 am | Reply
  - alienated,
    
    I see you have spent quite a bit of time and consideration trying to understand the Book of Revelations. I commend your efforts in trying to interpret and explain its’ contents.
    
    I personally find the book quite confusing, almost like it was two visions combined into one. It’s use of allegory and metaphor only complicates its’ interpretation further. Unfortunately, I believe a complete understanding of its’ contents may have to wait until after the events it describes come to pass. However, there are enough interpretations out there that it seems that at least one must be right.
    Perhaps it is yours.
    
    Keep up the good work,
    
    Abel
    
    abelarchangel said this on September 6, 2011 at 6:42 am | Reply
    - Hi Abel,
      
      Thanks.
      But the Book itself is not what I would consider to be my forte. My area of interest is primarily focused upon the catching away, or Rapture, and I have way too much information regarding it to post here.
      
      Be Blessed
      
      alienated said this on September 6, 2011 at 7:29 pm | Reply
  - dmcal & Ruth,
    Great discussion here. I agree with each of you on certain points but not others.
    I Nothing you have shown here contains undebatable proof of your assertions, only assumptions.
    Your first point:
    Revelation 1:19 reads, “Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;” therefore since there is no mention whatsoever of any of the following narrative as being a history lesson,
    You are assuming that is being told that he is about to hear of things that “he has seen.” Did he not live at the time the Christian church was born? Didn’t he have a hand in it? Doesn’t Christ discuss the merits of the seven churches? Shouldn’t those churches know that Christianity has replaced Judaism? The message is appropriate, for then as now.
    Your assertion does not stand up to close scrutiny. You say that the term “Hast seen” could not possibly refer to past events, and that is supposed to be used to refute the Mary/Christ interpretation of rev12. I have studied all of the scripture rapturists use to prove their theory and in every case I find these same kind of assumptions.
    Of course, we all must make certain assumptions whoever we read the bible, but we all need to be aware of when we are doing so.
    Now, we all know for sure there will be a second coming – Jesus has told us that many times. We do not need to prove it to any believer. But there is no verse in which Christ tells His followers that He will come twice – once to pick up His church and then again to rule the world.
    Your only proof is that so-and-so said this, but so-and-so said that, or the Old Testament said such-and -such and the New Testament said such-and such, and because they didn’t use the same terminology, they must be describing different events. I suppose if someone wanted to they could support six or eight comings if they had a mind to.
    As for me, if Jesus didn’t make it absolutely clear – like “I am canceling all the laws of God and all of His commandments” or “I am officially moving the sabbath from Saturday to Sunday” or “I will coming to earth twice, so be ready both times” then I’m going to make an assumption… don’t assume anything just to make a point.
    Sorry Dude, but I think you’ve gone thru a lot of effort to “prove” something that will amount to nothing more than wishful thinking in the end. It would be nice if God would protect His people during the coming tribulation, but more often than not He tests His people. The flood, Sodom and Gomorrah, the Babylon captivity, and even Job and Jesus were tested individually – tempted by Satan himself. We will be tested as well. Jesus will not be returning to marry just any church. Certainly not the church that rides the beast – nor any of its harlot daughters. Remember, the true church is only a tiny remnant – one who “keeps the commandments of God” according to rev12. If that’s who will be raptured, hardly anyone would even notice. Not much to write about, really.
    God will both test and protect His peeps. The majority of Christians will have the mark of the beast (they will not keep His commandments) and the remnant true church will be protected till the one and only second coming.
    
    And stuff like that…
    
    James Giordano said this on September 6, 2011 at 7:35 am | Reply
    - Hi James,
      
      I suspect that your above post was directed to me?
      
      Now I freely admit to you that this is only an assumption on my part, (seeing as within the header itself, it is actually addressed to dmcal & Ruth), however, due to the content and what you state within it, I believe this to be instead, a rather rational and logical conclusion.
      
      I attempt to utilize the same methodology to understand scripture. I read what is written, then investigate the passage(s) within their original text, with the hopes to ensure by what the definitions reveal, that how I understood them initially is indeed correct. I will also take into account all of the surrounding text as a further precaution to ensure that I maintain the correct context as well. Is this fool proof? Unfortunately I would have to say “no”.
      However it is the most critical form of exegesis and hermeneutical study that I am aware of.
      
      You say, “Your assertion does not stand up to close scrutiny.”
      
      Well, to attempt to further prove the point that I elude to above, lets look at the very first verse itself.
      
      Revelation 1:1.
      “The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass ; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:”
      
      Again what has been translated as “must shortly come to pass” would indicate that the following information is future tense rather than having anything to do with the past. As well the word that was translated into English as “Revelation” is the Greek “ἀποκάλυψις” (or transliterated as “apokalypsis”) and its definitions are as follows;
      “laying bare, making naked, a disclosure of truth, instruction, concerning things before unknown, used of events by which things or states or persons hitherto withdrawn from view are made visible to all, manifestation, appearance.”
      
      This word and its definition would clearly indicate that the whole of the following narrative would consist of the “revelation of things previously unknown”, and it is only within that context that the book of Revelation itself can begin to be understood.
      
      Now lets combine this with what is written within verse 3.
      “Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of “this prophecy”, and keep those things which are written therein : “for the time is at hand.”
      
      What has been translated as, “for the time is at hand.” would again indicate that the following is future tense, and the words translated as “of this prophecy” is the Greek “προφητεία” (or transliterated as “prophēteia”) and its primary definition is as follows; “a discourse emanating from divine inspiration and declaring the purposes of God, whether by reproving and admonishing the wicked, or comforting the afflicted, or revealing things hidden; esp. by foretelling future events.”
      
      Now lets combine the above with verse 19 again where Yeshua Himself states.
      “Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;”
      
      So within this one small chapter we have five (5) points of reference to take into consideration to derive the proper context of the whole of the book itself, and not one (1) of them would infer that any known history itself could possibly be contained within it.
      
      Yet you propose that this is merely an assumption on my part?
      If anything, I would propose to you, that since there is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that history could be considered to be a part of this books content, (and to even consider the possibility appears to be contrary to scripture and what is written), that the true assumption would consist of assuming that “history” could be included.
      
      In respects to your views regarding the rapture, you and I have gone back and forth about this before. To me it it clearly expressed as being obvious, and to you it is simply a non-event.
      I hope that I will have the opportunity to say, “I told you so!” down the road. 🙂
      
      Be Blessed
      
      alienated said this on September 6, 2011 at 7:16 pm | Reply
      - You use the phrase “things that will shortly come to pass” to prove your point, yet nothing in the book came to pass “shortly.” Obviously, we have to take the words with a grain of salt. Just because Christ said He would show future events does not mean that He wouldn’t start a prophecy at the beginning, just to make it more clear to the reader.
        Rev 12 starts with the birth of Christ and continues through the Holy Roman Empire (the woman in the wilderness for 1260 years) and to the end times. So it is a future prophecy, and the words Jesus used fit just fine.
        I think we must be careful when interpreting prophecy. If we look too deep into the words and definitions we can distort the true meanings. There is a biblical context that must be applied when interpreting scriptures.
        Like I said, Jesus never taught an early rapture and two second comings. The rapture theory comes from misinterpretations of discussions the apostles were having with their flocks. As you might expect, they used different descriptions of the same event which to different readers might seem like separate events, but there is really no logical reason to separate the descriptions.
        I guess you could say I’m a skeptic. Marianne will verify that. I need more proof than just assumptions. I started out believing in the Antichrist, the rapture, the RFID chip, the New World Order, a 7-year tribulation (70th week of Daniel) and all the rest but have since learned that all of these things are false. Using logic and keeping an open mind I eventually rejected almost all of the “standard” interpretations.
        I ended up with a simpler model that makes perfect sense without complicated and fantastic events having to unfold.
        Of course, only time will tell and maybe we will still be blogging about it when it all goes down. Until then all we can do is discuss among ourselves and let the readers decide for themselves.
        Bless…
        
        James Giordano said this on September 6, 2011 at 9:06 pm | Reply
        
        James,
        
        It is funny how you didn’t bother to address any of the other examples that I provided for you, other than that one?
        
        In respects to the Rapture you say, “Like I said, Jesus never taught an early rapture and two second comings.”
        
        Well, Yeshua never taught anything regarding what is disclosed within the Book of Revelations when He was here either. Do we simply discard all of it then too?
        
        How about if we look at this from a Jewish perspective?
        
        (1) All the Spring Feasts were fulfilled at Christ’s first coming, and on the exact day of the feast. All the Fall Feasts picture the second advent, and the Feast of Trumpets is the first of the fall feasts, picturing the rapture.
        
        (2) The Feast of Trumpets is when the “last trump” of the rapture of 1 Cor 15 is blown.
        
        (3) The Feast of Trumpets is known as the Wedding of the Messiah, and the Church is the Bride of Christ, and the rapture is when the Church is caught up to heaven to be wed with Christ.
        
        (4) The Feast of Trumpets happens on the “new moon”, which is 29.5 days after the last one, meaning it might occur on the 29th or 30th day, nobody knows for sure. “Of that day or hour no man knows” is an expression referring to this feast, and thus, the rapture.
        
        (5) “Of that day or hour no man knows, but my Father only” is an expression used by a groom when asked when his wedding will be. He says this because it is his Father that will tell him when his preparations on the bridal chamber are completed and it is time. Again, the wedding pictures the rapture.
        
        (6) The “Open Door” of the rapture in Matt 25, and Rev 3, & Rev 4:1 is a symbol of the Feast of Trumpets. [Ezek 46:1] “Thus says the Lord GOD: The gate of the inner court that faces east shall be shut on the six working days; but on the sabbath day it shall be opened and on the day of the new moon it shall be opened.
        
        (7) We are told that the new moon and the Feasts of the Lord are a shadow of things to come in Col 2:16,17. Since the Feast of Trumpets is the only Feast of the Lord that falls on a new moon, we should take particular note of it.
        
        (8) There are seven days of awe in between the Feast of Trumpets and the Day of Atonement. These picture the seven years of tribulation. Atonement pictures Satan being defeated and cast away at the end of tribulaion. If you add the two day Trumpets feast, and the day of atonement, the 7 days of awe are “ten days of tribulation” which may be referred to in Rev. 2:10.
        
        (9) In the Jewish Wedding, a marriage takes place over a period of time known as the “bridal week”. During the bridal week, the groom and bride have sex in the bridal chamber. At the end of the week, there is a marriage supper. Compare Judges 14, Rev. 19, and Gen. Genesis 29:22-28 This bridal week will be the tribulation week on earth, while the bride of Christ is in heaven.
        
        (10) In the Jewish Wedding, the groom comes for his bride “like a thief in the night” to take (size / rapture) her away and into the bridal chamber for the bridal week at his father’s house.
        
        (11) The Feast of Trumpets is also known as the coronation of the Messiah, when he will start reigning as King, thus the beginning of the “Day of the Lord”, which includes the tribulation.
        
        (12) It is also time for the bema judgment, or the judgement of the works of the righteous, and judgement must begin at the house of the Lord.
        Jewish people in Israel and throughout the world observe Rosh HaShana. These are two Hebrew words that mean “the head of the months,” or New Year. In the Scriptures, this holy day is called the Feast of Trumpets, (or Yom Teruah) the great convocation. This was one of the seven feasts the Lord gave Israel in the 23rd chapter of Leviticus, the third book of Moses.
        
        These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons. Leviticus 23:4
        
        In our Western culture, there are no holidays instituted by God. But Israel has at least these seven feasts designed and ordained by the Almighty, and they have been observed annually for some 1,500 years. These seven feasts were actually divided into three festival periods:
        
        Passover, which included the three individual feasts of Passover, Unleavened Bread, and Firstfruits, was in the first month of the year, that is in March-April.
        Pentecost, (or Shavuot), was in the third month of the year, May-June, and is connected with the Omer count.
        Tabernacles was the third period and fell in the seventh month of the year, our September-October, and includes the Feast of Trumpets, the Day of Atonement and the Feast of Tabernacles.
        
        For these three festival periods, every Jewish man in Israel under the Mosaic Law was to leave his pursuits, his agriculture, and whatever else he was engaged in, and make the journey to Jerusalem to worship the Lord in His Temple. After each festival period, he would return home, taking up his pursuits again until the time he was to go back to Jerusalem for the next festival period.
        
        The Feast of Trumpets
        
        As we approach the fall of the year, we are about to start the season of the Tabernacles Festival. It begins with the Feast of Trumpets, (Rosh HaShanah, or the New Year). On the first day of the seventh month, which occurs sometime in our September-October, trumpets would be blown, and the Feast of Trumpets would occur:
        
        And the Lord spoke unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation. Leviticus 23:23
        
        On the first day of the seventh month, just as for Passover and Pentecost, Israelites would come from their businesses, from their agricultural work, from their various locations, and they would ascend the hills of Jerusalem. There would be a great blowing of the Shofar, the ram’s horn, by the priests on the wall of the Temple, and they would gather in Jerusalem to prepare for the important days ahead. It was a great convocation, a great coming together in Jerusalem. The harvests were over and had been laid aside in the storehouses. The approaching fall and winter were coming; it was a time of celebration in the Holy City.
        
        In modern Judaism the Feast of Trumpets is not called that any more; it is called instead Rosh HaShana, “the head of the months,” but it still has the blowing of the trumpets. This is actually considered the beginning of the year in the Jewish calendar. Jews send New Year’s cards and wish for one another that they should be inscribed in God’s book of life for the next year.
        
        The Days of Awe
        
        Rosh HaShana, is the beginning of the Days of Awe, the ten days leading up to the Day of Atonement. In Rabbinic theology, it is during these ten days that God weighs every man in the balance his good deeds versus his evil deeds. Then God determines whether or not the person will be permitted to go through another year.
        
        To the believer in our Messiah, the Lord Yeshua, the Feast of Trumpets has great prophetic significance. We are told in I Thessalonians 4:16, 17:
        
        The Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first; then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air; and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
        
        This event is known as the Rapture, the catching up. It is the time when the Lord will come for His own, when Jesus will descend and take those of us who have trusted in Him to be with Himself. It is imminent, it can happen at any moment; it can happen today, it can happen ten years from now. We do not know when it will be, but it could happen at any time. And so, the prophecy of the Feast of Trumpets will be fulfilled in the Rapture of the Church. It has not yet been fulfilled. We are still in the period between Pentecost and Trumpets in God’s prophetic calendar.
        
        A Call for Regathering
        
        The Feast of Trumpets not only has reference to the Rapture of the Church, but also has a prophetic reference to Israel. In Isaiah 27:12 and 13, the Lord promises Israel:
        
        Ye shall be gathered one by one, O ye children of Israel, and it shall come to pass in that day, that the great trumpet shall be blown, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, and shall worship the Lord in the holy mount at Jerusalem.
        
        There will be a time in the future when the Lord will blow a trumpet for Israel to be regathered back in the land, and so the fulfillment of the Feast of Trumpets will have to do with not only the calling of the Church to its home in glory, but also calling the Jewish people back to their home in the Land of Israel. We are seeing the beginnings of this even now. When the Lord blows the trumpet, the migrations back to Israel will be on an even greater scale than they are now, and will be complete.
        
        Conclusion
        
        The Feast of Trumpets (Rosh HaShana, New Year), then, both looks back to the ancient days of Israel’s past, and looks ahead to our Redeemer’s return. The blowing of the trumpet signifies the Rapture of the Church (composed of believing Jews and Gentiles of this age) to its home in Heaven, and the calling of Israel back to its home in the Promised Land.
        God does not do things in vain, or without purpose. The Old Testament Holy Days were not just some sort of Divine make-work project to keep the Israelites busy while they were out wandering in the desert. All of the Old Testament Holy Days (Passover, Days of Unleavened Bread, The Feast of Weeks, The Feast of Trumpets, The Day of Atonement, The Festival of Tabernacles and the Last Day) were, and continue to be, living symbols of the stages of God”s Plan of Salvation for all humanity. Those events are now in progress, and true Christians are the manifestation of it.
        Believe what you will.
        
        alienated said this on September 6, 2011 at 10:36 pm | Reply
        
        I agree that Christ will return to fulfill the feast of trumpets and that the true church (remnant) will rise with the dead to meet Him in the air as He descends to fight the battle of Armageddon (which we will be protected from as we will have indestructible bodies by then. Ten days later Christ will take His earthly throne in Jerusalem and the day of atonement. (Rosh Hashonna will be moved back to the spring where God originally set it to in the Old Testament.) That will be the day of judgement when the wicked will be fed to the birds. After that the world will send its representatives to Jerusalem every year for the feast of tabernacles, and those nations not participating will be drought stricken for that year. All of this happens at the second coming, not 7 years before, when the so-called Antichrist takes power. There is no festival to be fulfilled by the secret rapture seven years before the last trump.
        One return, one coronation/judgement day. 2 festivals fulfilled, 10 days apart, not 3 events over 7 years.
        🙂
        
        James Giordano said this on September 7, 2011 at 8:14 am | Reply
        
        Hi James,
        
        Well, I guess it all comes down to how one perceives God’s character to be, or as to how He has demonstrated that loving character in the past?
        
        He removed Noah and his family from destruction. He removed Lot and his family from the same.
        Yet if you wish to maintain the belief that God would decide to include those that already worship Him and His Son, and group them together with those that don’t to experience the same wrath, well there is nothing that I can do or say to change that.
        
        Your belief is simply nonsensical to me, however you have the right to maintain it.
        
        Be Blessed
        
        alienated said this on September 7, 2011 at 8:25 pm | Reply
        
        God did not exactly send Noah and his family on a picnic during the flood. He certainly did not take him to heaven. Lot was warned but not protected. His wife didn’t obey God’s instruction and was turned to salt. Not much protection there and I’m sure Lot was not exactly pleased with the outcome.
        Like the three faithful Jews in Babylon, we will all be forced to go through the furnace in order to test our faith.
        Why do you think that Satan will be loosed from his chains at the end of the millennium? God’s people will be tempted and tested. It will be the mark of the beast all over again.
        And why have the mark of the beast in the first place? If all the faithful are gone, who’s to test? And why have a day of atonement after Jesus returns? The rapture would in itself be a judgement day.
        And if the commandments were truly “nailed to the cross” with Jesus, then with the law gone, what is the criteria for judgement? Does every Christian get a free pass? All the mafia bosses were devout Catholics and they all believed in Christ, yet they killed on a whim. So I guess that is OK with God since thou shalt not kill is no longer on the books.
        Talk about nonsensical! God would have to be a hypocrite if what you believe is true.
        Several times in the Book of Revelation it says that the people who escape the mar are those who obey the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. So just believing is not enough, nor is just following the commandments but not believing in Jesus (e.g., the Jews).
        God will be cleaning His house before the wedding takes place. Being faithful will not be enough. Babylon is everywhere in the church. I you go to church on Sunday, celebrate Christmas, Easter or Valentines day, or if you have a picture of Jesus or the virgin Mary on your bedroom wall (amongst dozens of other transgressions) you will be judged. Even the belief that you go to heaven or hell when you die is pagan. So why would God take billions of people there? Do you know how small his spaceship is?
        Well anyway, there is still some time left. At some point you will realize that Jesus is not coming to rescue you. It will be like the Millerites’ “great disappointment” of 1844. They all believed Christ was returning on that date and gave away all their possessions they were so sure they were right. That event was prophesied by Daniel and is the subject of rev 10. (The little book that tasted sweet in my mouth but was bitter in my stomach). As most prophesy, it will be repeated in the near future.
        I will pray for all of those future disappointed believers like yourself, that at that time you will see the light and the truth and be delivered thru the tribulation into eternal life.
        Be blessed.
        
        James Giordano said this on September 8, 2011 at 3:52 am | Reply
        
        “SIGH”
        
        alienated said this on September 8, 2011 at 5:25 am
- hi ruth
  
  I did not use your last name.
  
  Whatever you type in the space for your ID shows up on the screen.
  
  The system does it, not me.
  
  Would you like for me to remove the last name from view?
  
  Marianne said this on September 6, 2011 at 12:58 pm | Reply
dmcal & Ruth,
Great discussion here. I agree with each of you on certain points. Dmcal is correct on the Catholic church being Babylon and not Islam or the Koran. The trouble with Christianity is from the inside, not from another religion.
Ruth is right about the woman (church) in Revelation 12 – it is the Christian church who Satan has persecuted and infiltrated ever since Christ was resurrected and took His place on the throne in heaven. The true (correct) church is just a tiny remnant of overall Christianity today – only those who keep the commandments and the testimony of Jesus Christ.
As for the sun and stars theories, I have heard the 12 stars representing the 12 tribes as well as the 12 apostles, and perhaps both is correct, since I believe rev 12 is all about the changing of God’s people from the Jews to the Christians thru the teachings of Jesus.
There is another explanation about the stars, sun and moon which is more literal, in a sense. It is possible that the stars (also) represent the constellations of the zodiac. In September-October, the constellation Virgo, the virgin is behind the sun.
Since Jesus was born on the feast of trumpets (end of Sept./Beginning of Oct,) by a virgin, the text describes a virgin, clothed in the sun giving birth to the messiah an the feast of trumpets. The moon could be represented as the new moon, in alignment with the sun and the stars of Virgo.
So if the astronomy is correct, then the interpretation of the woman as Mary/the Christian church makes the most sense. Being that Mary was a Jew, the 12 tribes fits as does the apostles and the constellations – a perfect fit.
If dmcal’s theory is correct, the astronomy is superfluous. I like to believe that God is more elegant in His prophecy.
Bless…

James Giordano said this on September 6, 2011 at 3:41 am | Reply
- James, I’ve been reading more of your posts with a lop-sided grin. You are witty and frank. Appreciate your respect for the Sabbath.
  
  Since you mentioned Apophis, were you aware that its nearest approach on Friday the 13th, is only a few weeks away from the highest resolution lunar eclipse of the 21st century?
  =========================================================
  Having issues with the Mark:
  =====================
  What Torah template foreshadows a Rev13 Mark?
  Exo 13:16 And it shall be for a TOKEN upon thine hand, and for frontlets between thine eyes: for by strength of hand the LORD brought us forth out of Egypt.
  Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
  
  Yehoshua in Revelation is the Aleph and the Tav. The Tav (completion of his works) is being done at the end of the ‘6th day'(6000yrs) in the Book of Revelation. The last thing an author, artist, or lawyer does upon completion of a work is to Sign his Name. The “X _______” appearing at the bottom of formal documents has its historical root in the Hebrew letter ‘Tav’. The Lord has always ‘marked his people’ but the grand finale of that is in Rev7 with the 144,000 marked. The Adversary in Rev13 is merely copying what is done in Rev7. Isn’t it fair that Satan gets to mark his own, to match Exodus13:16? This is to say; ‘by strength of hand the Adversary has brought the world INTO Egypt.’ (Egypt being a mammon based kingdom.) And since the best he is ever going to get is an EARTHLY KINGDOM, then his mark must be an earthly physical mark.
  ==========================================================
  Lastly I’d like to ask you what your feelings are about the Sagittarius-Teapot-asterism with regards to the first horseman, since he is a ‘bow-man on a horse’ which pours his “Tea” (same as shooting an arrow) into the galactic center, toward Scorpio where the “Great Red” Supergiant Antares is. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Teapot
  ==========================================================
  
  45squared said this on January 22, 2012 at 5:40 pm | Reply
  - If I may just add to the above.
    The word translated into English as “token” is the Hebrew “אות” transliterated as “’owth ”, Strong’s 226. Its definition consists of “a sign, or signal, a distinguishing mark. banner, remembrance, miraculous sign, omen, warning, token, ensign, standard, miracle, and proof.”
    The question now would be, “Is this a literal, tangible, physical mark, or sign, or is it representative as a metaphor for “action” and “thought”? ”
    
    Lets see shall we? …………..
    
    And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for “signs”, and for seasons, and for days, and years: Genesis 1:14. LITERAL.
    
    And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a “mark” upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him. Genesis 4:15. LITERAL.
    
    And God said , This is the “token” of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations: I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a “token” of a covenant between me and the earth. Genesis 9:12,13. LITERAL.
    
    Again in referring to the rainbow;
    And God said unto Noah, This is the “token” of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth. Genesis 9:17. LITERAL.
    
    And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a “token” of the covenant betwixt me and you. Genesis 17:11.
    DEFINITELY LITERAL.
    
    The Hebrew “אות”, or “’owth ”, is also utilized within the following verses of;
    Exodus 3:12., 4:8,9., 4:30., 7:3., 8:23., 10:1,2., 12:13., 13:9., 13:16., 31:13., 31:17., All of which are literal and tangible signs.
    
    Numbers 2:2., 14:11., 14:22., 16:38., 17:10. All of which are literal and tangible signs.
    
    If one is interested, then one could continue on further in doing their own study.
    
    Be Blessed
    
    alienated said this on January 23, 2012 at 12:17 am | Reply
  - As for the Apophis asteroid, if it is the wormwood event of Revelation, then any other factors are purely coincidental. Since Friday the 13th is a pagan superstition, it can have no biblical meaning. I’m not sure what you mean by “highest resolution” lunar eclipse, but if Apophis does strike the earth, no-one will be concerned with just another lunar eclipse. I don’t think anything as common as an eclipse will be a sign from God.
    As for your zodiac analogy, it sounds like you are implying that the early nuclear tests were the first horsemen of the apocalypse. I believe thus will be the emergence of the false prophet which had not yet happened. The whole teapot scenario is a bit of a stretch. The constellation Sagittarius (half man, half horse) in greek mythology does not have a built-in teapot. There is a dipper-shaped group of stars (similar to the big and little dippers) that even I have used during star parties (I used to have a backyard observatory in high school) to help my friends to pick out the constellation and objects within it. I don’t believe God would use centaurs and teapots in His prophecy and as I said, the use of the term Operation Teapot is nothing but a coincidence. But it does illustrate the fact that there are a zillion ways to interpret prophecy if one is clever enough and has plenty of time to scour the internet for possible connections.
    As for myself, I try to think biblical – what would Jesus do? What will God be doing to His church before the millennium?
    We know there will be a judgement day – the day of atonement when Christ takes His throne and marries His bride. Sin and apostasy will be punished. Evil will be vanquished. This is Old Testament stuff. It will be Jeremiah revisited. Sure Christ died for our sins, but that doesn’t mean we can sin all we want after He returns. The commandments are still in effect. Jesus will still hold the seventh day as the Sabbath, despite the tradition of man and his churches.
    The mark of the beast will be biblical in nature. It won’t be a tool of the banking institutions. Sure, you can make a case for it and I once bought into it, but it never seemed quite right to me. With more study, I was able to put all the pieces together in a more logical manner – one that fits perfectly with my understanding of how God will rule His kingdom on earth.
    As for my take on the mark, I am working on an article for this site right now and I’m sure there will be a lot of discussion about it when Marianne posts it, so stay tuned for more on that topic. I will just say that I believe a sign, a seal and a mark are all the same thing, and God will seal the 144,000 in the forehead (mind) to protect them from the mark (hand or forehead) of the beast. God does not physically mark His people, tattoos are forbidden in Judaism, so this type of mark can not be seen except by God.
    To me, it only makes sense that if the righteous are sealed invisibly, the sinners will also be marked invisibly. To those who try to prove that the mark must be visible I must remind them that a subdermal chip would not be a real mark as defined by linguists, so they must take some creative license to make it fit. So I don’t put too much faith into finding precise translations but instead try to understand what God is trying to tell us.
    Trying to think like God? Call it silly, but that’s my goal, and I’m sticking to it.
    Bless…
    
    James Giordano said this on January 23, 2012 at 12:09 pm | Reply
    - “They were told not to harm the grass or plants or trees, but only the people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads.”
      
      And the demonic beings who were let out of the Abyss said to one another, “Huh! I know that we are commanded to sting everyone except for those 144,000 who have God’s seal on their foreheads, but I can’t tell which ones they are because I don’t see any visible marks.”
      
      Circumvention time ………………..
      
      Don said this on January 24, 2012 at 2:05 am | Reply
  - “highest resolution” lunar eclipse: The proximity attributes of the orbits of the earth around sun, and moon around the earth, factor into lunar eclipse ‘resolution’, which causes most lunar eclipses to be muddy brown, and then some to be orange red, and then fewer still are blood red. The (Most BLOOD Red) “Umbra Magnitude” being greater than 1.83 occurs only about once a century. See http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/LEcat5/LE2001-2100.html Since God made Gen1:14 the moon for a sign and literally references it with regard to its redness in prophecy, then it is logical to carefully consider those very few lunar eclipses which are by far, the most blood red. The deeply blood red lunar eclipse that I mentioned occuring shortly after Apophis, will slip down below Israel’s horizon while at the peak of its redness, could be interpreted as ‘a sickle cutting off something’.
    
    I understood you to believe the zodiac Virgo represents the Revelation 12 woman. Did I misunderstand? If Virgo, then why not Sagittarius?
    
    These two links http://www.windows2universe.org/citizen_science/starcount/constellations_sh.html and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sagittarius-teapot-asterism.jpg detail the teapot formation in Sagittarius which I was talking about.
    
    “Trying to think like God? Call it silly, but that’s my goal, and I’m sticking to it.” – – I have no problem with your goal.
    
    45squared said this on January 23, 2012 at 3:32 pm | Reply
  - Clarification: I was NOT suggesting that the 1st Horse went riding out in the 1950s by reason of Operation Teapot. Instead I was defining the reason for no arrow in his bow. Instead of an arrow, the centaur with bow in hand, goes forth conquering, and to conquer by pouring out Nuclear WMDs (not an arrow).
    
    Regarding Sagittarius, Capricorn the Sea Goat immediately follows him, which would symbolize Satanic Goat Dominion during the remaining part of the Great Tribulation. Might as well also add in about Aries the Ram occuring at Spring Onset where the passover lamb is focused upon. I think it not accidental that Virgo (focusing on repentant purity of heart) leads into Tishri onset (Feast of Trumpets), and then turns into Libra (the scales of Justice) during the Day of Atonement.
    
    Since the Rev13:17 mark is a prerequisite to any buying or selling, how could it be limited to blue laws only? Also, I do not understand why a subdermal chip would not be a real mark as defined by linguist.
    
    45squared said this on January 23, 2012 at 7:17 pm | Reply
John 14-26…But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

DOES ANYONE BELIEVE THIS SCRIPTURE..??? I DO…

THIS IS WHY i DO NOT rely on man’s interretation of Scripture nor on my own…
I am teachable precisely because I knew I did not know..and I had patience to wait until the Lord showed me and verified it and sometimes repeated the process..
I also knew I like all was in the image of Adam…Adam’s version of good and evil was exactly like the one who taught him good and evil.. i.e. satan…Gensis 3-22…Adam’s mindset is in conflict always with truth…

If the Lord cannot do a little thing like revealing truth then it is we who are hindering Him…

Ruth Cullison said this on September 6, 2011 at 10:06 pm | Reply
Trying to inerpret the bible with astrology lore is like having satan as your interpreter…

e1313ruth said this on January 23, 2012 at 8:57 pm | Reply
Luk 21:25a And there shall be signs in sun and moon and STARS; …

If historical lore of the heavens is not what Jesus meant when he used the word STARS, then what better interpretation do you have for Jesus’ use of the word STARS?

45squared said this on January 23, 2012 at 9:27 pm | Reply
Jesus said I spoke in parables and without a parable did I speak to them, I showed the truth of these to my own…

It is possible that when the Bible speaks of the sun, moon and stars he was speaking of the forbidden religion of Deut 4-19…..These would no longer give light to people who depend on astrology AND LIKEWISE SOURCES ……As the astrology lore will be exposed and defeated even to the exposing the allah beast as the ancient moon god of astrology lore…

THE ASTROLOGY LORE BEGAN IN EDEN AND IT IS THE SATAN’S DELUSIONAL FOUNDING OF THE WORLD SYSTEM.. THE ENTIRE WORLD WORSHIPED THE ASTROLOGY GODS, ETC UNTIL GOD CALLED ABRAHAM OUT OF IT…
This deception is still on earth today via hinduism, japanese, chinese, and islam…etc
This is the WORLD that will end soon..The earth will stand forever… Satan’s astrology foundation of the world that began is gensis is ending very soon..

e1313ruth said this on January 23, 2012 at 10:04 pm | Reply
Deu4:19 “worship them, and serve them” needs to be defined.

When the alarm clock goes off and I yawn stretching out my arms in the morning, then glance out the window at the sunrise for confirmation it does not mean I am worshipping the rising Sun. Likewise, if I glance down at a sundial to make sure I’m not late for an appointment, it is not worship. If I predict that the Sun is going to rise tomorrow morning at 6am, and by that prognostication decide that I had better go to sleep at 10pm to get enough rest, it is not divination. No, each of these are common sense.

In contrast, if I were to attempt to gain personal ‘good luck’ by birthday Horoscope calculations,
or submit my trust & affections unto the queen of heaven, Sirius, Sun, Moon, or constellations of Orion or Pleiades,
or counted my prosperity or lack thereof as being a result of such objects in the sky (whether by themselves or by their movements)
– Any of these would be idolatry, for I would have denied the sovereign God of heaven who made these temporary things.

Rom 1:20a For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made…
Ps 19:1b …The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament shows his handiwork.

But to believe God created the star constellations, and told a story about himself and his master plan of redemption for humanity to Adam in the Garden of Eden, written on the canvas of heaven – This is not idolatry, but rather is acknowledging God who made all things as a testimony of himself. Constellations are the testimony of God written before language came into being. God has always left a testimony of himself, even to the scattered peoples of the far corners of the earth, who had no written language. The original story lost its clarity and became like that of a dream, but there was an original which at one time was perfect.

Personally, I will be glad when the heavens are rolled up like a scroll to be done away with, and there will no longer be a veil to cover our eyes, (such that currently requires the gift of prophecy). Study of knowledge is exhausting, but remains requisite to earthly mastery of any skill whereby one can serve God in greater measure. I look forward to that future Sabbath Rest, where all work comes to a close.
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Take Noah’s Flood for example. Cultures round the world speak of a flood and surviving on a boat long ago in the beginning. Sometimes the flood is worldwide, sometimes local, but a big flood and their own ancestors as sole survivors on a boat eons ago remains a common theme which we find the most complete details of in scripture.

Likewise, cultures round the world have variable astrology lore about the heavens, but there are common themes which render pictures confluent with God’s plan of salvation. Enough evidence exists for God’s original input, that to automatically dismiss it as Satan’s work is using poor judgment.

I personally believe Adam lived 930 years! And I believe Noah’s worldwide flood occurred 4300 years ago. And I believe there was a real garden of Eden, everything exactly as scripture details, including God creating the star constellations for unique signs of plan of Salvation.

The story of Esther details her Hebrew name changed from ‘Myrtle’ to ‘Star’, but we rarely ask about her uncle. Now Mordecai was a very righteous man, yet his name was commonly understood to mean: “worshipper of Mars.” Now why would a God-fearing Israelite name their son in such a way that it could potentially lead him into idolatry? Worshipping the pagan god of war is of course wrong. Yet when one considers the slaughter of the enemies at the end of the book, then it appears Mordecai literally became chief leader of a war uprising. There is a prophetic truth hidden in that Mordecai for both then and now.
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In Eden, these constellations existed and were known of. God made them right from the onset. Certainly Satan was there also to defile what God had made, but it does not exclude God from being the original author.

Gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

If God intended to change his opinion about heavenly signs decreed in Genesis 1:14, then why did God himself choose to reference the star groups of Orion, Pleiades, Mazzaroth, & Arcturus when speaking to Job? Surely if these were a detestable thing of Satan, then God would not have made reference to them.

Job 38:31,32 Can you bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion? v32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?

Of course just like scripture can be misinterpreted, so can constellations. And likewise, when we keep scripture in spite of cults, so should we also keep God’s plan written in the Stars. Most constellations are just pictures with a simple label, so we need not get stressed out about their existence.
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Any thoughts?

45squared said this on January 24, 2012 at 12:57 am | Reply
- 45squared, Yes a lot of thoughts because what you have said here is true and has been spoken of many times before. Unfortunately we live in an age where if you are secular you are raised in Leftist thoughts and teachings in Universities that no longer mind altering history or studies that do not placate leftist thought. We are also raised with ideas that must follow the main stream of the Theory of evolution which is unproven and just so, so that any archiologist discoveries that proves other than evolutionist theory is wantonly discarded throughout the earth. Your ideas on the stars is not new since the names themselves given have meaning from God that writes His story for mankind from Creation and since God is not subject to our space in time He saw and sees the Beginning from the End of our space/time on earth and in our Universe. This of course has nothing to do with worshipping the stars since it is called the study of the Stars, Astronomy and not Astrology. Your thoughts here are so dead on and we ourselves were taught this by Pastors and others long ago, early in our Christian walk. E.W. Bullinger wrote a book called ” The Witness of the Stars” which speaks of his studies of the ancient teaching of so many of the nations which he believed were a distortion of the truth taught in scripture and by Jews long ago who knew the stories of the names given to the constellations which declare the Glory of God not just to look at as pretty lights at night, but as a story and reminder of His Promises to mankind. This book is a wonderful read and study of what the original meanings of the names of the constellations were of the sin and deliverance of mankind and truly translate the scrliptural story in the Heavans. We seem to know and teach so little today of the great wisdom of God passed on to Adam and Enoch and Abraham and Moses and so many more. We are poorly educated today and I mean by this especially the Institutions that are so Liberalist they have lost their way in learning and wisdom by casting off the truth.
  
  Through many years of study myself and what we were taught by Pastors, Rabbis, etc. we had realized that for the Wisemen to follow a star because they knew it guided to the promised Son of Man and Saviour had more to the story than we want to admit. I say again that this has nothing to do with the worship of stars or anything but the understanding of our Creator and His deep love for us all. This book writes much translation in the original Hebrew texts and shows us (with Bullingers help in scholarly skills) the story of the sin, salvations and deliverance and reign of Christ with mankind written in the stars. He was educated as I wish to be and will never be but he wrote a good deal of Hebrew translation for the layman like us to understand his. I have been learning much in my 39 year walk with the Lord, that His Kingdom on earth and in the Heavans is far greater than I had conceived and that He has worked in with mankinds folly and loss over 6000 year history many more understanding believers that freely share their faith, Jew and Christian that frees us all, if we wish, from the darkness and ignorance of the ages. Job 9:9, 38: 32, 26:13 ..they are so numerous the scriptures that speak of the names of the Constellations as if it was perfectly normal to discuss what few today wish to discuss except from scientific evaluations or astrological concourse to determine their day.
  
  Your disclosure is quite apt and true to the scriptures reckoning. 45 squared.
  
  Young’s Literal Translation Psalm 19:1
  To the Overseer. — A Psalm of David. The heavens are recounting the honour of God, And the work of His hands The expanse is declaring.
  Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
  Heaven makes heard the glory of God and the firmament shows the work of his hands.Psalm 50:6 And the heavens proclaim his righteousness, for God himself is judge.
  
  Isaiah 40:26 : “Lift up your eyes on high, and behold who hath created these things, that bringeth out their host by numbers; he calleth them all by names, by the greatness of his might, for that he is strong in power; not one faileth.”
  
  Darby Bible Translation
  He counteth the number of the stars; he giveth names to them all.
  
  marie jean said this on June 5, 2012 at 7:50 pm | Reply
Deut. 4-19…And lest thou lift up thine eyes unto heaven, and when thou seest the sun, and the moon, and the stars, [even] all the host of heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them,

They worship the host of heaven which are the fallen angels who invented the astrology worship..These claimed they were the sun god the moon god, etc…
I strongly suspect according to archeology and history that the moon god claimed he was the door to the astrology heavens and to the sun god…
Read Enoch and research the sun god and moon god of astrology.. These gods were the head of hundreds of pagan astrology gods…

The entire world without exception worshiped these astrology gods until god called abraham out of it and then untill Jesus came… much of the earth still practices this pagan worship…

Cain’s way was the same deceptive worship as korah (core) and balaam gave the Jews.-see jude. 11….. and this was of astrology worship of the baal gods …Cain like Islam throught the baal god was the real god… This is why god refused his offering…

Astrology was given to men by fallen angels.. It is original sin wisdom…

e1313ruth said this on January 24, 2012 at 1:21 am | Reply
Genesis 1-14… the word SIGNS is spelled OWTH in Hebrew in this verse.. It means a mark or a sign… It is the exact same Hebrew word used for the MARK of CainGenesis 4-15…And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him. Mark in this verse also spelled OWTH. in Hebrew

It would appear Cain was marked with the sun, moon a……

The mark of the ancient astrology moon god was a crescent moon.. Archeology proves this..

I do not beleive God wrote anything in the stars…. He wrote what He had to say in his word…..

Astrolgy is dead wrong…The tower of Bable was of astrology worship….

Astrology is satan’s delusional counterfeit of the creation of the heavens…
As god said in Deut 4-19 IF YOU LOOK UP AND SEE THE SUN, MOON AND STARS AND HOST OF HEAVENS.. This shows us exactly how satan planted in the subconscious of man that he was the creator.. subliminal visual deception..
He said look up and see what I have made…..

e1313ruth said this on January 24, 2012 at 1:59 am | Reply
In support of your thesis, there is strong evidence that the New Age Messiah Maitreya worships the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoth as the ‘Moon god’. I agree with you that astrology, paganism, pantheism, and polytheism are error. And I agree with you that God sees them as error. And I agree with you that mankind has always been tempted by Satan to go astray into worshipping the creation instead of worship the blessed creator who made these things.

But just because there are pagans who do worship the moon, does not mean I should refuse to obey the Festival of Passover or refuse to obey the Festival of Sukkot just because they begin at the full moon. God himself created the heavenly bodies for a purpose. Misinterpret that purpose and you fall into sin. Correctly interpret that purpose and stay on the right track.

Furthermore the moon turning blood red appears several times in prophetic scripture in connection with God doing something major. If this is astrology, then scripture has astrology in it. I do not believe these scriptural blood moons spoken of by Jesus and the prophets are astrology. Do you believe Jesus was using astrology when he made mention of the sun and moon?Mat24:29, Mar13:24, & Lk21:25 (all three are repeats)

45squared said this on January 24, 2012 at 2:10 am | Reply
Everyone knows troth is an astrology god… The bible says the world will be deceived all but the elect …… all but the elect think allah is the god of Abraham.. He is not..He is in fact proven by history and archeology to be the same allah moon god of ancient arabia…..The ancient moon god was satan….He indwells those that follow Islam.. This is how the moon is turned into blood…The moon god indwelling his followers.. These are also clled the sons of perdition…

The madhi of Islam is what we call antichrist…. He fools the people….only the elect recognize him…
Think about it.. If you were antichrist and wanted to take over the world what position would you covet…THE PRESIDENCY OF USA????

The moon will never actually turn to blood… but the moon god will indwell the blood of men…
The sun being black as sackcloth
Psalms 69-11…I made sackcloth also my garment; and I became a proverb to them.
Christians are clothed with the sun…..
It can be likened to a garment…. When these as Chrislam are doing turn from God they lose the garment of light and their garment becomes black as sackcloth…

Joel 2 is self explanatory… it tells how the great army cause sthe sun to be darkened and the moon turned to blood.. think army of Islam

Matthew 24-29 and mark 13-24…shows the sun and moon being darkened and then the stars faal from Heaven.. Read Rev 12 and see the stars that fall and are cast down to the earth.. This woman is Christianity.. She is clothed with the sun and the moon is under her feet… but one thrid of her falls for the dragon’s deceit… they are the chrislam church today…These will lose heir clothing of sun and will become indwelled by the dragon satan and his seven demons… Matthew 12-43,44,45 is about this indwelling in fallen christians…

AMERICA IS IN SERIOUS TROUBLE …We have the chief imam of islam sitting as president… He has proseltized Islam from day one…

e1313ruth said this on January 24, 2012 at 3:03 am | Reply
(1) Ok, you and I are coming from very different backgrounds. You are the first person I have ever encountered who has admitted to knowing ANYTHING at all about troth, so I’m a little stunned when you say; “everyone knows troth is an astrology god.”

(2) Next, I’ve never heard of the word ‘Chrislam’ but assume by context you mean something like a blending of Christianity with Islam? Please clarify.

(3) If I were antichrist and wanted to take over the world, the president of the USA is NOT the position I would covet. The US president is little more than a corporate ‘public liaison’ who submits to the wishes of the true owners of the corporation, which(who) is(are) the chief stock holders who sit on the board of directors for the USA corporation. He does exactly as they tell him, or he will suffer the consequences of his insubordination. He is just a puppet held out in public view for everyone to see. The board of directors are the ones who got him elected by financing his political campaign to rise into that position. The man Obama has power, but not near the power you are ascribing to that office. Details to prove this could fill an entire thread…

If I were antichrist, I would much prefer to be head of the largest international organization on earth which is the United Nations. If not head of the UN, then I would want to be head of the world bank to fund my purposes. If not the world bank, then I would want to be head of the Quartet so as to preside over the dominate political military force in the world. If not over the Quartet then there are many other equally weighted possibilities ranging from the Pope to the head of Israel. But not the USA president. You overestimate his true power. Besides, his term will soon be over and only ‘maybe’ will he get another 4 years, and then he is GONE, to be replaced by yet another puppet in the long chain of pupputs like Bush, Clinton, Reagan, etc.

(4) Your explanation for the Rev12:4 third of the stars is different from ANYTHING I have ever heard. Traditional prophetic Christianity has always considered the ‘third of the stars OF HEAVEN’ to be the whole heavenly host of demonic spirits which are defined in Rev12:9 as Satan’s angels.

(5) Mat12:43-45 certainly is about a 7-fold increase in number of demons, but to say Satan is limited to having 7 chief demons is stretching it a bit too far.

(6) I agree that the USA is in serious trouble, but not exclusively from Obama proseltizing Islam. There are other matters more serious than this.

45squared said this on January 24, 2012 at 5:28 am | Reply
- In Christlam, churches take down the cross so not to offend muslims, and then invite them in to read from the Quran.
  
  stupid….
  
  Marianne said this on January 24, 2012 at 1:19 pm | Reply
While I am not a paleo-astrologist and am only familiar with the modern origins of western constellations, I’m sure that they are not now nor have always had the same meaning in every culture. So trying to prove that prophecies in the Book of Revelation are related to any modern constellations is a moot point. A Christian in Japan or China for example could not draw any of the same conclusions you are trying to make here.
We all agree that God is not expecting us to look for astrological signs to foretell the future and I doubt that even the world’s best astrologers today could decipher exactly when the second coming will be and if they did, no true Christian would believe them.
While it may be possible that modern constellations tend to reflect bible prophecy, they are not necessary for true interpretation. And since any events in the stars and planets (conjunctions, risings, fallings, being on a cusp etc.) are purely astrological, we should not look to any of these for signs either.
As for eclipses and the blood-red moon, in this century there will be 228 lunar eclipses – more than two every year and the ones in 2029 (the year of Apophis) are really not much different from any others. I guarantee you that the human eye will see no difference between most total lunar eclipses. If you are expecting one eclipse in hundreds to be a sign from God, I’m afraid you and everyone else on earth are going to miss it. In addition, they only last a few hours so only a small portion of the planet can see any one eclipse, so who is God going to honor with the sign?
So you can look all you want at astronomical objects but I doubt that you will find anything useful in regard to prophecy there. People have been doing so for 2000 years and have only been disappointed.
Prophecy depicts that the sun, moon and stars will be darkened. This can not all be the result of eclipses, and certainly not seen everywhere and at the same time. So the events must take place on earth and merely affect our viewing of the heavens, like a volcanic eruption blocking out the sun, or a nuclear winter.
I have heard about “Chrislam” – a proposed blending of Christianity and Islam. Some preachers are claiming it will be the One-World religion many people believe is coming. Personally I don’t believe it will ever happen or is even possible. There will not be a New World Order, nor a one-world banking System, nor a single world religion. These are common misinterpretations as is the idea of a world dictator. A while ago people on this site were claiming that Bush was the Antichrist, and now Obama is the target. Who will be next, Newt Gingrich? No matter who gets in, someone will make a perfect case as to why he/she must be the Antichrist. Go figure.
I think all of this is due to an overblown exuberance to prove that the second coming is near. Everyone is looking for even the tiniest signs anywhere they can find them. This web site is littered with such possibilities and many people delight in speculating on these non-events so it makes for interesting but ultimately futile discussions.
Perhaps were are in one of those right now.
🙂

James Giordano said this on January 24, 2012 at 7:31 am | Reply
- I would agree that – naturally- the sun, moon and stars cannot turn dark all at the same time.
  
  Something huge would have to come between the earth and the sun, so as to block out all light, if that is possible.
  
  Since the moon turns red at this time, it would have to be something that would render the atmosphere red, such as iron oxide from a meteor or a bigger object.
  
  Marianne said this on January 24, 2012 at 1:17 pm | Reply
  - Just an FYI, remember that these events are going to be caused directly by God and therefore these plagues do not require natural explanation. For example: at the 4th trumpet, the sun, moon and stars are darkened by a third so that they are only giving off two thirds of their natural light. Some have suggested that it is due to the air being polluted which is blocking out a third of the light, but that is not what the Scripture suggests, as it states that a third of the sun, moon and stars themselves are struck so that they are all darkened by a third. There is no natural occurance that could accomplish this and therefore, this would have to be performed by God himself.
    
    Don said this on January 24, 2012 at 11:55 pm | Reply
    - I might also add that John has already shown in Scripture, the ability to differentiate between the sky being darkened opposed to the events that will be directly taking place to the actual bodies themselves as in the following example:
      
      “When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss” (Rev.9:1–2)
      
      Don said this on January 25, 2012 at 12:08 am | Reply
- If elected to US Presidency, how might Newt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newt_Gingrich begin to be labeled as being the antichrist? Back in 1995 when Newt was Speaker of the House of Representatives, the bill H.R. 666 was introduced to the House. It is rumored that Newt was responsible for this bill. The bill would have overturned the 4th Amendment right to be safe in one’s home from search without a warrant, thus overturning it would permit forcible entry into any person’s home without getting a judges permission. Because I have no legal training, the language of the Bill is confusing to me. So if anyone wants to read the bill for themselves, here is the government link. http://www2.westwoodonline.edu/information/2col.asp?NavPageID=43388
  Personally, I am neither for nor against Newt Gingrich, but am just passing information along the line…
  
  45squared said this on January 25, 2012 at 2:41 am | Reply
  - Thanks for proving my point. No matter who is prez, people will come up with seemingly valid hypotheses to claim they are the Antichrist. Since they can’t all be right, they are more than likely all wrong. That is why I don’t pay attention to such nonsense.
    
    James Giordano said this on January 25, 2012 at 7:11 am | Reply
To understand Joel 2-31 you must read the entire chapter. The first few verses shows what the darkness really means..It is when a fierce army of people cause the people to become a desolate wilderness… This is compared to the great deceptions in the Garden of Eden..
Joel 2-30 ..God says he will show great wonders in Heaven… These wonders in Heaven are in Revelation 12…Rev 12 wonders in heaven is about Christianity (woman) and the 7 headed dragon beast… The dragon causes one third of the church to fall indicated by the stars falling out of the woman’s crown and being cast to the earth…These are Chrislam.. The remnant of he womans seed, the remaining stars ar caught up into the wilderness where she gleans knowlege from the face of the serpent…Note this SEED OF THE WOMAN is the SEED OF THE WOMAN in Gensis 3-15 prophecy….

As for astrology in he past and today, the origin of astrology is from the fallen angels….. It is a perversion of the science of astronomy…Enoch records this in the book of Enoch…..The Bible also condemns astrology….
Astrology is dead wrong.then and now…

e1313ruth said this on January 24, 2012 at 5:27 pm | Reply
Hi all,

As I was reading these comments, something “popped” into my mind.
I sat here for a minute or two to mull it over, to see as to whether or not it perhaps had some viability?

Is there the possibility, that the Church as a body throughout the years, has made an error in its ideology and therefore also within its perspective, and we simply continue to run with it today?

Quite simply, what I am proposing is this;
The central focal point throughout the Tanakh is Jerusalem as an earthly city . As a city it is also central within the New Testament.
Yeshua was on the Mount of Olives when He was answering the disciple’s questions as to when and how the end of the age would come.

Is there the possibility that “these signs”, (which clearly could not be seen by the whole of the world at the same time), are only to be witnessed over the city of Jerusalem, rather than being some form of world wide event?

Just thought that I’d throw that out there.
Be Blessed

alienated said this on January 24, 2012 at 8:10 pm | Reply
- not sure…..I guess we will find out when it happens.
  
  Marianne said this on January 24, 2012 at 8:12 pm | Reply
Pursuing Intellectual Integrity:
======================
The title of this thread; “Signs of the Sun and Moon before the Day of the Lord” includes the issue of timing, if for no other reason than Gen1:14 saying the sun and moon were made for timing. From a top down approach, we know from Mat24:32-34 that the ‘Israel fig tree’ of 1948 (or less likely 1967) + 80 years is an maximum time limit according to the Olivet Discourse (Jesus’ Major Sermon on the question of ‘When will the Great Tribulation come?’). This puts an upper limit timing range from 2028AD to 2047AD. So we need not look beyond that time frame.

Let birds be our teacher. Birds migrate annually north and south via intuition. Once the migration begins they keep going, but how do they correctly predict the seasons? And be so accurate year after year? Inborn genetic coding mixed with sensitivity, accurately interprets the whole basketful of atmospheric signs which they fly through every day. The whole flock perceives other flocks traveling, the shifts in the temperature, wind gusts, precipitation, and behavior of other creatures. No one single sign is overlooked. When the whole basket of signs takes a sudden shift, then all come into agreement and the migration begins. And those who correctly interpreted and obeyed are the ones who live long enough to continue their species.
=================================================================================================
We should appreciate the incredible balance of our Sun-Earth-Moon relative sizes and radial orbits which allow for eclipses to take place at all, for the odds of this occurring by random evolutionary chance is very, very small. Also, we should acknowledge the uniqueness of Earth’s atmosphere which is what causes the redness of the blood moon eclipses, for this also is very, very unusual. God created this perfect balance of size and distance between the three, so that he could point to it as a prophetic sign given to humanity as an excellent gift, one that can be calculated. This eclipse phenomena GIFT is no different than God’s implanting into birds the ability to know which direction North and South is so that they migrate in the correct direction.

There are 228 lunar eclipses this century. Sun-Earth-Moon alignments which allow eclipses occur in a repetitive cyclic pattern of 173.3 days. Most of the time it is a poor alignment where there are only two eclipses, but at other times the alignment is so good that three eclipses occur inside of 30 days. Every 173 days there are always either 2 or 3 eclipses within 30 days, never more never less. These latter ‘eclipse triplets’ can be either Sun-Moon-Sun or Moon-Sun-Moon, and the center eclipse is always the best quality. When the Moon is the center of the triplet, this is where we get the higher quality Blood Moon visual dynamic. So from the 228 LE this century, we are down to one of these Blood Moon lunar eclipses occurring every 5 to 7 years. Between now in 2012 and 2047, there are only 7 lunar eclipses worth considering with regard to scripture. So we can quickly eliminate 220 lunar eclipses with great ease.

1.70UM – 06.15.2011 http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/LEplot/LEplot2001/LE2011Jun15T.pdf – Visible from Israel middle of the night
1.61UM – 07.27.2018 http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/LEplot/LEplot2001/LE2018Jul27T.pdf – Visible from Israel middle of the night
1.41UM – 05.16.2022 http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/LEplot/LEplot2001/LE2022May16T.pdf – Visible from Israel dips below horizon just before sunrise
1.84UM – 06.26.2029 http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/LEplot/LEplot2001/LE2029Jun26T.pdf – Visible from Israel dips below horizon just before sunrise
1.45UM – 08.07.2036 http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/LEplot/LEplot2001/LE2036Aug07T.pdf – Visible from Israel ~3hrs before sunrise
1.53UM – 05.26.2040 http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/LEplot/LEplot2001/LE2040May26T.pdf – Not visible from Israel
1.40UM – 11.18.2040 http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/LEplot/LEplot2001/LE2040Nov18T.pdf – Visible in Israel middle of the night
1.75UM – 07.07.2047 http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/LEplot/LEplot2001/LE2047Jul07T.pdf – Not visible from Israel
==================================================================================================
This small section is only for JG:
I know you believe that all the pieces must fit together and I agree with that. You also know the Sabbath is centrally important to God’s plan. The sevens of God are all thru scripture, and are rooted in his 7-fold spirit. Likewise there are other numbers with occur repetitively. Goto astronomy resources and check out the occultation which occurred (exclusively over the USA) on 9.10.2001, the day before 911. Then consider for a moment that Apophis comes just before the best lunar eclipse of the century in the 29.5th year of the millennium. Then consider the 29.5 day orbit upon which that eclipse is dependant. Then consider the 29th Book, middle chapter, 10th verse. Then read about the 7-fold voice of the Lord in Psalm 29. Then consider the 29.5 year orbit of Saturn, after which the Sabbath day of the week is named. And then afterwards, you (thinking like God) ask yourself what method would best communicate to humanity to get their attention (by using the Gen1:14 tool(s) you designed for such a purpose). What better way could there be to get the message across to the humble, than this? (and get the message across in such a way that its interpretation could not become corrupted by demonic tampering) What message do I speak of? The message of the onset of the Great Sabbath Rest, of course! Sabbath Rest is very, very dear to the heart of God. The bible talks about it from cover to cover.
==================================================================================================
Apophis (named after http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apep ) comes modestly near earth every 7 to 8 years. Apophis is the only NEO (Near Earth Object) of significance (of the great many NEOs known) which has the slightest chance of hitting earth. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/99942_Apophis That 4.13.2029 Friday the 13th near approach to earth will come within 0.3 of the distance between the earth and moon, thus it will come inside of the belt of some geosynchronous satellites. Thus it is possible that even if it does not hit earth, it potentially could hit or disturb the orbit of one or more satellites, knocking them out of orbit. Apparently there is enough government fear over this object that it truly might hit earth in its 2029 close approach, that it is suppressed by NASA as we can see http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/risk/a99942.html The page should list every near approach of Apophis beginning with the year 2013, but it begins with 2036 for some reason.

For what its worth (and I know this is a little far out there), the Messianic Jew Nostradamus warned of a great mountain which would strike earth, which he described as being 7 stadia round, whatever that means. By near approaches to earth Apophis comes close every 7 – 8 years, but by spherical circumference Apophis is estimated to be between 4 to 7 ‘greek stadia’ round. Everyone know Nostradamus practiced in the occult, so don’t give me a hard time about this, for I am only mentioning a reference point, not to imply that he or his works are worth leaning on. ( I just found it interesting that Apophis seems to fit Nostradamus’ description coupled with the uniqueness of Apophis over all other NEOs of the 21st century. )
================================================================================================
The Rev8:12 darkening of the heavenly lights could be interpreted as a third of the equatorial pie of earth being turned off. That is to say, if no one from the North and South Americas could look up and see the heavens (because of opaque cloud cover) then that ~hemispheric third of the earth would be darkened both in the day and night during every single daily earth rotation. If such a phenomena were to transpire early in the 3.5 years, then the upper atmospheric jet stream would disperse that cloud over the whole earth in time.

Mat24:29 says that AFTER the 3.5 years are finished, a darkness will cover the whole earth, so it raises the question: If the tribulation has ended, then why are there ominous manifestations continuing to on the earth? This is an important question because it helps us to seek God’s exact definition to Great Tribulation, rather than just throwing darts at a target while being blindfolded.
==================================================
JG mentioned “western constellations”. The only eastern astrology I’m aware of is the Asian (both Chinese and Japanese) 12 year calendar. Apparently they assign a sign to each year, which repeats every 12 years. The only one that I know of that has presented a problematic pattern in recent history is the ‘Year of the Snake’ which presented itself as follows: 1917, 1929, 1941(Japanese attack Pearl Harbor), 1953(Korean War), 1965, 1977, 1989, 2001(USA 911), 2013(nothing?), 2025(nothing?), 2037(nothing?).
==================================================
The question has been asked: “Where is the New World Order?” with the implication that if it were here, everyone would know what it is if it is a fulfillment of some part of biblical prophesy. It is a good question worth addressing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_world_order_(politics) discusses the subject matter. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_does_annuit_coeptis_novus_ordo_seclorum_and_e_pluribus_unum_mean tells of that curiously odd phrase printed on the smallest unit of USA currency. The worldwide circulation of this money, plus the US presidents using the phrase “New World Order” in their public speeches (see YouTube videos of Bush and Clinton speaking such), are both validating enough that we can safely assume that political leaders are so boldly confident of the N.W.O. that we can automatically throw out conspiracy theory, for the basket of worldwide evidence is well known. The question remains: How does one define NWO? For it cannot be stated by JG or 45(myself) that the N.W.O. is or is not here unless one defines what NWO is! The progressive unionization of continents: Unionization of Europe 1993, Unionization of Africa 2002, & Unionization of South America 2008 coupled with the movement toward Unionization of North America qualify as the New World Order. While http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_bank carries the title “World Bank”, the real world bank is the IMF http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Monetary_Fund which currently is embraced by 187 nations, qualifying it as a ‘One World Bank.’ Then we have a One World Police force Inter(national)Pol(ice) embracing 190 nations. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interpol Next we have the United Nations which embraces 193 nations. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_nations Next we have the internet and worldwide web that goes into all of these same ~190 nations. So to me it looks like pretty much all of the nations of the world have singularity of the UN, Police, Bank, and Web. How much more is required before we can stand back looking upon it and say; “Yeap, that there looks like a New World Order. Wasn’t there before. Now it is.” Think about this, never in the history of the world has there been such a merging of all nations into One World Organizations. Just the world wide web itself is proof enough of an orderly structure affixed in place whereby I can eBay buy or sell with ease from just about any nation on earth. This is very orderly and its new! One might say, “Yeah, but I thought there would be a One World Religion.” Well, unifying religion is not necessary to have a New World Order. The NWO currently here, might eventually include unification of religion, but the NWO minimum definition does not require it.

45squared said this on January 24, 2012 at 10:51 pm | Reply
- The 6th seal indicates a solar eclipse of some sort and a blood moon, which is usually an eclipsed full moon.
  
  From a science view, solar and lunar eclipses do
  occur together.
  
  They occur no closer than 2 weeks apart.
  
  so while there may be eclipses of one or the other, the 6th seal cannot be
  about eclipses.
  
  something else is going on.
  
  Marianne said this on January 24, 2012 at 11:27 pm | Reply
- Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
  
  You allow time(days to months) for each of the other broken seals to unfold unto completion. Why require the 6th seal completion to be less than 15 days?
  
  45squared said this on January 24, 2012 at 11:36 pm | Reply
- Since the Sabbatical (Shmittah) Year is mentioned at the top… http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shmittah
  
  Shmittah Years:
  HC5768 = 2007-08 Minor Lunar Eclipse 02.21.2008 visible from Israel ~3hrs before dawn
  HC5775 = 2014-15 Minor Lunar Eclipse 10.08.2014 and 04.04.2015 (neither are visible from Israel)
  HC5782 = 2021-22 Major Lunar Eclipse 05.16.2022
  HC5789 = 2028-29 Blood Lunar Eclipse 06.26.2029
  =================================================================================
  And the Sabbatical Year shouldn’t be addressed without bringing up the Jubilee Year
  https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/70-years-and-the-last-jubilee/ makes a good case for the year 2016-17.
  
  There are alternative interpretations as to when the Jubilee Year is:
  http://www.messianictorah.org/en/manna_en/32-1en.htm makes a good case for the year 2029-30.
  ==================================================
  And while biblical Times and Seasons are best appraised from a Israel point of view, it is interesting that the 700th Olympiad is soon to come upon us. http://eyesfortheuniverse.com/hmepa/calendars/700.html This is significant because Adolf Hitler http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympics hosted the 1936 Olympics as a political platform just before he began his invasions to kick off World War 2. If one does research back into the root of the Olympics, then it is not difficult to imagine the 700th Olympiad in the 2020s as being important to Satan.
  
  45squared said this on January 25, 2012 at 12:47 am | Reply
- Sorry, but I can’t buy into the whole numerology bit, its too convoluted and there is no biblical precedence for such a crazy prophecy code.
  As for the Sabbath being named for Saturn, that is not biblical. God called the 7th day His Sabbath, a day to rest, but He did not name it after any planet. The romans were the ones to name the days of the week after gods which they also named the planets for. Interestingly, many languages such as Spanish, still use the Roman God’s for their days, unlike the English which changed the weekdays to Norse gods instead, keeping only satur(n)day plus sun and mo(o)n days from the original latin. It is interesting that in Spanish, the only day NOT still named after a planet, is, Sabado which means Sabbath. In fact in more than half the worlds languages the word for the seventh day comes from Sabbath. Funny that almost none of them recognize it any more as the true Sabbath day.
  As for the New World Order, I think you are confusing it with the One-World-Order that is to be run by the Antichrist dictator. Look at the world situation today. Does it really look like every country on earth is ready to give up its sovereignty to a single man? Would you or any other American ever vote for such a thing? Will Israel agree to join Iran in a world-wide brotherhood of man? Crazy!
  
  As for the world bank, do you have an account there? Will they cash your paycheck? Do they control your credit cards? Just because it has the title “World” bank, doesn’t mean it could or would be able to be the only bank on the planet. When US presidents speak of a New World Order, they are talking about a world where every country is democratic and all earth’s citizens enjoy the same freedoms the US has enjoyed for so long. They do not for an instant think that the US could run the whole planet nor would they suggest we should abdicate our constitution and bow to the UN charter and have our military run by foreign powers. None of this makes any sense to me. Fortunately, my interpretation of prophecy does not include such events so the fact that they do not seem likely does not bother me.
  
  So there you go…
  
  James Giordano said this on January 25, 2012 at 8:31 am | Reply
  - Shabbat means to rest in hebrew.
    
    Marianne said this on January 25, 2012 at 12:32 pm | Reply
numerology and astrology both came from the fallen angels..How could any Christian ever depend on satan’s wisdoms to determine God’s words… Are we no wiser than Eve today..

e1313ruth said this on January 25, 2012 at 2:58 pm | Reply
- 1313truth, you are right about things like numerology, astrology, etc., and so many other cultish practices that seem acceptable to Christians even when working out the Word of God. We are not to seek after the witch of Endor when trying to determine what the Lord is saying to us personally or through the scriptures. It appears the Lord is reaching some hearts. Gamatria is numerology and why anyone would use it to figure out letters written in aramaiic long ago is beyond me.
  
  I remember when I was first saved and read of these teachings and many more that ignored so much of scripture which was why I started searching for the reasoning for twisting up so much of God’s beautiful Word and I began to seek the truth that so many exponders always ignored or would say in College, “Oh you will eventually come to believe the same things if you just accept them now”. This is not truth but we went on with the Lord and have discovered that all the foolish doctrines of men are just that and fall away and the study of real History and the original meanings of the original texts brought us closer to Him and what He has really been doing and teaching mankind on this earth in His efforts to get the attention of mankind…the Living Word. We’ve have been blessed, with finding and recognizing in that search, that the most important thing in life is a closer walk with Him. The shadows fall away as do the hidden things. I learned that indeed it is far more important to “study to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.”
  
  Strive diligently to present thyself approved to God, a workman that has not to be ashamed, cutting in a straight line the word of truth.” Darby Bible Translation
  
  marie jean said this on June 6, 2012 at 4:30 pm | Reply
Until people are ready to relinguish heir personal opinions, and the knowledge of men and fallen angels they will never and I mean never understand the parables of the Bible…

God has a different mindset than man or fallen angels…. You simply cannot understand God’s mind or word until you let loose of lies and illusions…

It is a good thing we are all saved by faith…. Our wisdom would damn us forever as it stands today

e1313ruth said this on January 25, 2012 at 3:04 pm | Reply
- truth.. this is mostly true but, did you ever notice that everyone we meet will have found a portion of truth that they have come to and in their sincere search for more they swim through the garbage often laid out by man whether Jewish, Christian or secular and if sincerely seeking the truth they will find it as the scripture says and the garbage and lies will fall away because He is the Keeper of Truth, the Way and the Life. I remember the stages on this journey to the Celestial city is not much different than Bunyans or CS Lewis’ Pilgrims’ Regress or Progress, so when I hear a voice crying out from whatever sorrow in this dark valley that must be crossed I call back and remember what I was shown or learn from them what I do not yet know. We are all Pilgrims at different places in this Journey or Holy War to the Celestial City.
  
  ‘Seek you first the Kingdom of God and His Righteousness and all these things will be added unto you, was a song we were taught in the 1973.
  
  King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
  But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
  
  Mathew 6: 33
  
  marie jean said this on June 6, 2012 at 4:44 pm | Reply
http://the-humanstain.blogspot.com/2009_04_01_archive.html

me said this on February 26, 2012 at 6:00 am | Reply
We can’t know when He will return… (Matthew 24:35-37 NIV) “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. As it was in the days of Noah, so will it be at the coming of the Son of Man.”
(some manustripts do not include nor the son)

anonymous said this on May 2, 2012 at 6:08 pm | Reply
I’m not critisizing all of yall, just bringing that to clarity, in fact i find this extremely interesting, ecspecially happening on holy days and miraculous wars, i think that those may have been signs that God was with Israel, but it doesn’t help us pin the date, because according to Matthew, we can’t know. However this is really interesting or I wouldn’t be on this site, I didn’t come to preach to you all about not knowing when, I came to see when red moons occur, not to learn the date, but because i thought i might find something interesting and i wondered if red moons could naturally occur or if it was always a sign/miracle. of course if you look closely everything living in our world is too complex to be anything less than a miracle to be alive. Even our distance from the sun, The orbits of the planets around it, even the gravity of deep space, it to me just proves intelligent design. Even though you cannot per sey prove God to the scientific/legal community, To me it seems as if nature itself sings praises to and testifies to God’s existence.

anonymous said this on May 2, 2012 at 6:19 pm | Reply
- hi anonymous
  
  Red moons can occur naturally. They are most often seen in the autumn. They are sometimes called the harvest moon.
  
  http://www.universetoday.com/19969/red-moon/
  –
  
  Marianne said this on May 2, 2012 at 7:45 pm | Reply
  - Correction,
    Red moons are the result of light from the moon passing thru dust or water vapor in the earths atmosphere which tends to diffuse out the blue and green light letting only the red light pass thru. This is most pronounced at moonrise and moonset when the light from the moon must pass thru more dirty air than when it is directly above. This therefore depends on weather conditions and not the time of year. Marianne is confusing the Harvest Moon with this effect. A harvest moon is nothing special. In some months you will get two full moons within the same month. This while a bit rare, can happen in any month although February has a problem because it is actually shorter than a lunar month. Anyway, when this phenomenon occurs during the fall harvest months the second one is referred to as a Harvest Moon as it’s light can extend the time a farmer can spend in the filed harvesting his crops.
    I suppose when this happens in the spring it could be called a planter’s moon, and maybe it is.
    Another red moon can occur during a total lunar eclipse when the moon is in the shadow of the earth and the only light that reaches the moon is light that is refracted (bent) around the earth by the atmosphere, and that has the same effect as the sunset example I mentioned earlier, only much redder due to the additional atmosphere the light has to travel thru.
    So now you’re an expert about red moons.
    Just thought you should get it from the horses mouth.
    Jim (A.A.L.)
    
    James Giordano said this on May 3, 2012 at 5:22 am | Reply
Matthew 24-14…
Jesus said the the gospel of the false prophets and false christs of Matthew 24 is preached in all the world THEN WILL THE END COME….The false gospel of Jehovhas Witnesses, Mormons , etc.and koran have been preached in all the wrold…..He is at the door now…

e1313ruth said this on May 2, 2012 at 6:56 pm | Reply
Since Jesus said we can know when He returns “right at the door” (Matt. 24.33) then how do we figure out when He returns?

Very simply He returns on the 2,520th day (end of Daniel’s final seven) from when the Tribulation starts. 2,520 is the smallest number divisible by all numbers from 2 to 10 as a basic prophetic working unit, and it is 7 years x 360 days per year.

The last 3 feasts pertain to when Jesus returns. Feast of Trumpets (representing the first rapture according to readiness, Luke 21.36, Rev. 3.10 at 9.7 “before the throne”) commences the 7 year Tribulation, and the 2,520th day must land on Tisha B’Av, the day the 1st and 2nd Temples were destroyed, for Jesus returns to reign in the 3rd Temple for 1000 years on earth with His overcomers. Not all who are saved receive this reward though all saved do get to enter the New City after the 1000 years. Consider this consequences for slothful Christians.

Furthermore, we know the “branch is tender” (Matt. 24.32) because Israel is a nation again and the Total Lunar Tetrads coincide with when Israel became a nation May 14, 1948 and entered Jerusalem June 7, 1967 as the signs in the heavens. The 8th feast Tetrad since Christ is 2014/15. And there are exactly 2,520 days from Sept. 14 Feast of Trumpets 2015 to Aug. 7 Tisha B’Av 2022. Not so for 2014-21 or 2016-23.

To further seal the deal, not that we need more proof, the 3 events that occur right before the Tribulation starts (Rev. 6.12) in exact order are the great earthquake (either 320,000 killed in Haiti 2010 or 5th greatest in magnitude, Japan 2011), the blacksackcloth sun Nov. 3, 2013 (rarest of all, the 4th long H3 Hybrid since Christ), and of course the Total Lunar Tetrad 2014/15 that only falls on passover and tabernacles and won’t happen again till 2582/83. The H3 won’t happen again till 2172.

If you care to include other evidences like the Malachy Prophecy (religious Rome destroyed in the 1st half of the Tribulation in Rev. 8 in agreement with 17.16), the prophecy of Jubilees, and Ezekiel’s prophecy that takes us to exactly May, 1948 when Israel would become a nation again this only strengthens the timeline.

Considering the last drop of conventional oil is 2035 when 900 billion barrels (current estimate of available oil by industry reports) are used up at an average of 100 million barrels a day, the war over this resource will be a good 15 years before that to control the flow of oil in the middle east. Hence, 200 million military units in the middle east (Rev. 9.16) and the nuclear exchange (v.18). This fits perfectly with the timeline of the 6th and 7th trumpets from Aug. 20, 2020 (ask me how I derive this calculation) to Aug. 7, 2022. Jesus steps down on the mount of olives on the latter date.

Now that you know this what do you do? “Overcometh” so that you become a spiritual Christian and not a carnal one to receive your reward to be first raptured and return with Christ to reign 1000 years. Many Christians don’t care for this reward so they will lose this blessing (Rev. 1.3).

partrib said this on May 7, 2012 at 11:21 pm | Reply
- Partrib,
  
  The HOLY SPIRIT OF TRUTH has been working in your heart, and I agree with quite a lot of what you have received.
  
  I ask that you go deeper though. Ask that your intellect be supressed so that you can become weak.
  In our weakness God becomes strong, and if you happen to “fast” that also helps.
  
  We listen to the HOLY SPIRIT easier when we are weak, and then when we are full of HIS GLORIOUS SPIRIT we become gloriously strong.
  The less of “you” the better!
  It is all THEM.
  FATHER GOD, YESHUA the SON and KING, and HOLY SPIRIT!
  
  Be Blessed
  
  PRAISE YESHUA THE WARRIOR KING.
  
  alienated said this on May 7, 2012 at 11:58 pm | Reply
Millions gaze skyward for rare eclipse

Millions of people turned their eyes to the sky on both sides of the Pacific to gaze excitedly as a partial eclipse occluded the sun at dawn in Asia and at dusk in the western United States. May 20 (21), 2012.

http://news.yahoo.com/photos/rare-eclipse-crosses-asia-slideshow/
–

Marianne said this on May 21, 2012 at 10:38 am | Reply
I hope all of you that had a chance to see the eclipse did so. I had a small eclipse party here in southern California and we viewed thru filters and by pinhole projection. I took about 100 photos including a dozen as the eclipsed sun dipped below the horizon, which is a 1-in-12 chance of happening, so that was cool. My guests were not as impressed, but most didn’t really know what an eclipse is or how it works.
So now that it’s over, the big question is, was it the sign of something in prophecy? I’m sure lots of people were expecting or at least hoping for something to happen.
Any news? Anyone??

James Giordano said this on May 22, 2012 at 7:29 am | Reply
- maybe.
  
  nothing is an accident.
  
  and prophecy and signs do not work like vending machines.
  
  (instant results)
  
  let us see how the next year unfolds…..things are happening in the world, and everything is part of a bigger picture.
  
  Marianne said this on May 22, 2012 at 11:33 am | Reply
  - Well, that would make God a little sloppy. There will several other eclipses in the next 12 months, and the year after that and so on, so I guess once something does happen, you’ll be able to claim that some future eclipse was the precursor to the event.
    I will find this amusing since so many people haven’t seen the prophecies that have already been fulfilled yet they will revel in thinking they have seen something miraculous which in fact will just be ordinary.
    Oh well.
    
    James Giordano said this on May 23, 2012 at 7:52 am | Reply
    - love you James
      
      Marianne said this on May 23, 2012 at 8:05 am | Reply
    - james
      
      nice music, but look at video
      
      Marianne said this on May 23, 2012 at 9:35 am | Reply
Right back at you!

James Giordano said this on May 23, 2012 at 8:06 am | Reply
So what all do you think this video is showing? A few objects in the Kuiper belt over 4 billion miles away. Maybe, but I doubt it. Why?
These objects are luminous and therefore stars, not planets. Any object that far from our sun would be invisible without a large telescope and a long time exposure.
The cross patterns seen are due to the four metal vanes in most telescopes that hold the secondary mirror in place and therefore cast shadows onto the image sensor or film. I go the same effect on all the photos I’ve taken with my old 10” reflecting telescope when I was a teenager. Some smaller scopes do Cassegrainian design have a front corrector lens and the secondary mirror is glued to back center of this glass removing the need for support vanes and thus eliminating the “star or cross” effect.
The filtering that caused the cloud-like mass around the central star is called posterization. It comes with Photoshop and many other image-manipulation programs and if you knew how it worked you would understand how you can get such a cloud from any bright object such as a street light.
I don’t know what the author of this video was trying to insinuate, but I could take a photo of any star group or constellation and manipulate it in the same way, but what purpose would that serve? To create a lie, to incite fear and panic? That is terrorism, is it not?
So why do you continue to deal with these people and try to give creedence to their cause, however twisted that might be? You are a scientist, right? You should be holding these people to a higher standard, not giving them a platform to spread their lies.
These videos have nothing to do with biblical events. They only serve to take our attention away from real prophecy and make Christians look like fools for believing in charlatans and false prophets.
But then, I sure do enjoy ridiculing these idiots, so as long as you keep setting them up, I’ll just keep knocking them down.
🙂

James Giordano said this on May 23, 2012 at 10:11 am | Reply
Man does not live by bread alone but by EVERY WORD OF GOD..
Read the entire chapter of Joel 2 for the answers…
Joel 2-2 shows that a strong people (antichrist children) is what causes the blackness.
Acts 2-20..The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
The sun being turned to darkness is what happens when Christians accept the doctrines of the strong army (Islam) of Joel 2….Prior they are clothed with the sun i.e. light….Their light become blackness…The moon being turned to blood is synonymous with the man of sin being revealed… The man of SIN are those Christians who fall away in 2 Thessalonians 2 and accept allah the moon god whose real name is SIN…This entity actually indwells these fallen Christians…hence the man of SIN is revealed…Matthew 12 43,44,45…This is about the last wicked generation…
The seven headed dragon of Rev 12, and 13 is the same entity as Matthew 12-43,44,45…It is satan and his seven fallen angels and they indwell those of the last generation who turn away from Christ’s gospel. ..

The sun being turned to darkness and the moon to blood and the stars falling from heaven has nothing to do with events of nature…These things pertain to the great falling away of Christians being led away by the Islam false prophets who say Koran is god’s words…
The scripture says the righteous shine forth as the sun…This is the sun that will be turned to darkness….The moon being turned to blood is what I said previously…It is fallen Christians who sin the moon god indwells..This is how the moon is turned to blood ..He indwells man…. The stars-Christians falling from heaven means these no longer reside in the heavenly abode but fall away from god almighty…Rev 12 shows they are cast down to earth..This means they no longer are with god…They become earthly as is Islam as was Ishmael…

The Lord is right at the door to return… Christians are being slaughtered all over the world by Muslims….This is he event that takes place prior the return…

Obama is the head of the serpent behind this slaughter of Christians and the world wide takeover of Islam… rev 3-9,10

If he is reelected it will occur in America in the next few years…

e1313ruth said this on May 23, 2012 at 5:01 pm | Reply
- you have a symbolic interpretation….we will see how it plays out.
  
  Marianne said this on May 23, 2012 at 5:31 pm | Reply
Hello Marie Jean and all,

I agree with you here and I also have a copy of what is called “Ethiopic Enoch.” This book or better regarded as “Books” of Enoch shed much light on angelology, as well as the root reason for the cause of the flood. In Genesis 6:1-2 it states:

“When men began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose.”

The “sons of God” is another designation for angels, which was also used in Job 1:6. The book of Enoch lists this very same verse as Gen.6:1-2, but goes into great detail regarding those sons of God who were also referred to as the “Watchers of Heaven.” These Watchers, of which there were 200, and whose leader was called Samyaza, are those who took for themselves wives from the progeny of men and cohabited with them. And the Scriptures state that when the women conceived, their offspring grew into giants (Nephilim) being 300 cubits tall, that is, approx. 450 ft. Not only did they concieve these giants, but these angels/Watchers began to teach mankind about sorcery, the solution of sorcery, the dividing of roots and trees, astrology, the movement of the stars, signs, how to make weapons of war, the beautifying of the eyebrows (make-up) and many other things.
Furthermore, Scripture states that these giants being so big and thus being out of scale to us, that all that men produced could not satisfy their appitites. And because of this, they began to injure animals, birds, reptiles and men, eating their blood one after another. Because of this and all that the Watchers taught mankind, the earth became corrupted, which was why God flooded the earth. In fact regarding the flood, the book of Enoch states that God told one of the angels to go to the son of Lamech (Noah) to tell him how to escape the deluge that he was going to bring upon the earth.

Regarding these angels/Watchers, both Peter and Jude make reference to them in the following verses:

“For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;”
(2 Pet.2:4)

“And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.” (Jude 1:6)

That word here in 2 Pet.2:4 (Tartaroo/Tartarus) is found only once in the NT and is improperly translated as “Hell”, just as “Hades” is improperly translated as “Hell.” Tartaroo is a separate place where these angels/Watchers were cast into until the day of judgment. The book of Enoch also goes into great detail as to where Enoch went after God took him, being with the angels of heaven. At one point during his journey, Enoch is even shown the tree of life.

Here’s something to consider: What if these 200 Watchers were an angelic construction crew and were the ones who came down to build God’s testimony in stone in the midst of Egypt (The Great Pyramid) as described in (Isa.19:19)? Just a thought.

Don said this on June 6, 2012 at 2:26 am | Reply
- interesting. 🙂
  
  Marianne said this on June 6, 2012 at 9:01 am | Reply
- I suspect Don that these angels did not come down as a construction crew because tGenesis says they came and saw the daughters of men and took wives… they appear to have been in dissobedience already…there was a war in the heavans may also refer to them being cast out before mans creation since the earth was in a condition of having been destroyed …this is always a question we have all wondered about because of the words: tohuw and bohuw …an indistinguishable ruin somewhat insinuates a ruin or war created such chaos???? So it has been argued that the Lord took the ruin and made the beautiful earth from it though Creation had already been accomplished or ??? Well we will find out when we all see Him face to face.
  
  without form
  tohuw (to’-hoo)
  a desolation (of surface), i.e. desert; figuratively, a worthless thing; adverbially, in vain — confusion, empty place, without form, nothing, (thing of) nought, vain, vanity, waste, wilderness.
  ——————————————————————————–
  and void
  bohuw (bo’-hoo)
  a vacuity, i.e. (superficially) an undistinguishable ruin — emptiness, void.
  
  marie jean said this on June 6, 2012 at 8:33 pm | Reply
Will Jesus return within 75 years from when Israel became a nation (by 2023 at the latest)? Yes,
•because 75 years is within a lifetime (Ps. 90.10);
•because Abraham entered the promise land at 75 (Gen. 12.5);
•because “you know the summer is near” (Matt. 24.32) when the “fig tree…branch is tender” (v.32);
•Ezekiel’s prophecy on his side for 390 days takes us to exactly May, 1948 when Israel became a nation again;
• thus, you “know that it is near, even at the doors” (v.33).

Can we narrow down the time of the Tribulation and when Jesus returns? Yes,
•because before the great and terrible day of the Lord (Joel 2.31, Rev. 6.12) there is a great earthquake (2010/11), unique solar eclipse (Nov. 3, 2013) and unique lunar eclipse (2014/15);
•thus, the Tribulation can start no sooner than 2015.

How do we get even more exact for the time the Tribulation starts?
•Each year there are from Feast of Trumpets 2,520 (Dan. 9.27, 12.7, Rev. 12.6) days to Tisha B’Av or 2,550 (Dan. 12.11) days to Day of Atonement;
•there are 2300 days (Dan. 8.14) from the day before Passover to Tisha B’Av from 2016 to 2022 and for 2017 to 2023;
•thus, we know the Tribulation starts on Feast of Trumpets either Sept. 14, 2015 or Oct. 3, 2016.

Which year does the Tribulation start?
•There are seven sets of seven from June 7, 1967 (double fulfilment of Dan. 9.25) when Israel became a nation to the Day of Atonement June 23, 2015 (total of 17,640 days);
•Israel became a nation and entered Jerusalem on the previous Tetrads so the 3rd Temple construction and the Tribulation should begin no latter that on the next Tetrad;
•when Jesus returns, He judges the nations for 30 days from the 1260th to the 1290th day;
•2015 is a Jubilee year once every 50 years and it is a Sabbath year once every seven years (these years are confirmed going back to the start of the first Jubilee which was 3986 BC when Adam was 18 years old;
•The 1335th day (Oct. 21, 2022, Dan. 12.12) is the 4th day from Simchat Torah, the last of Israel’s holidays, just after Tabernacles is done in 2022, but not for 2023;
•thus, the Tribulation must start on Feast of Trumpets Sept. 14 in 2015.

What day does Jesus step down on the mount of olives?
•Jesus would step down on the 2,520th day which would be Aug. 7, 2022.

Troy said this on June 7, 2012 at 7:39 am | Reply
Happy summer solstice everyone! Longest daylight of the year and all.
And for all you Mayan calendar fans, today the earth, sun and center of the galaxy are in exactly the same alignment as they will be on Dec 21st – the winter solstice. The only difference is that we are now between the sun and the center of the galaxy whereas in Dec we will be on the other side of our orbit, with the sun blocking us from the center of the Milky Way.
So If there is to be some unusual effects from this long-touted alignment, we should be experiencing it more severely today than we will 6 months from now.
So keep your tin foil hats handy for a while. In any case they can be used to keep the top of your head from getting sunburned this summer…
🙂

James Giordano said this on June 21, 2012 at 1:03 am | Reply
- James
  When Jesus had his first child. Rakels pain started on the longest daylight of the year and mayans say we have best contact with God on this day so mayan info comes from God.
  
  Adam said this on June 21, 2012 at 10:01 am | Reply
  - Yeah, right…
    
    James Giordano said this on June 22, 2012 at 2:55 am | Reply
- That first part is cool. However, you are not correct on the Myan calendar. It is a return of their gods.
  
  If some of these 9-17000 year 100 ton blocks of stone under Greek, and Roman Temples is an indication that the fallen Angels were here as Enoch stated before the flood, then it could be the lie that decieves the elect as a Mother craft lands on the White House lawn.
  
  BTW, my hat is kelvar, and it is called a Helment. Do you have to wear one of those plastic ones so you don’t hurt your head when you fall?
  
  Leatherneck said this on June 21, 2012 at 6:32 pm | Reply
  - I know that the Mayan calendar has nothing to do in their minds with galactic alignment. Heck, they didn’t even know that the earth was round and rotated on it’s axis making the heavens appear to move around the earth. They got nuttin’ on Copernicus, ya know?
    But YouTube idiots have misinterpreted the calendar as it actually ends on Dec 21st, and turned that into an end-of-the-world scenario.
    Then the pseudo-science idiots began to claim that there is going to be a supernatural alignment that would cause all sorts of havoc on the earth to try to bolster the original theories not realizing that this same alignment happens twice a year, every year, forever, so it is no big deal.
    
    So I’m actually right in that the date comes directly from the Mayan calendar. Whether or not you’ve heard of or believe in the galactic alignment BS is another story.
    
    PS Kevlar will not reflect magnetic radiation like metal, instead it will absorb and concentrate it, so I would dump the army helmet and buy a big roll of tin foil as soon as you can.
    🙂
    
    James Giordano said this on June 22, 2012 at 3:12 am | Reply
    - I will just line the inside with tin foil, but if I absorb magnetic radiation, I might become a new Superhero.
      
      I’m not sure what to do.
      
      Leatherneck said this on June 22, 2012 at 3:35 am | Reply
      - Go for it Dude!
        Maybe you can join the Avengers 🙂
        
        James Giordano said this on June 22, 2012 at 6:51 am | Reply
Adam, please show us the Scriptures to back up what you said in your post regarding “Jesus having his first child” or that he was married for that matter. Thanks!

Don said this on June 21, 2012 at 5:43 pm | Reply
Don
I´m telling that Jesus is living on earth now and he has 2 children, both of them are born on sundays. People on this site knows that I have told them this before.

Adam said this on June 21, 2012 at 5:53 pm | Reply
- I don’t know about the people on this site, but as for me, you are so far out there in left field I just hope the best for you.
  
  Break a leg pal,
  
  L.
  
  Leatherneck said this on June 22, 2012 at 3:38 am | Reply
When Paul was preaching the word of God, the Bereans would check the Scriptures daily to see if what Paul was saying was the truth. That being said, show me the Scriptures that prove that Jesus had children and by children, I assume that you are speaking of literal children of flesh and blood. Again, please show us the Scriptures that say that Jesus had children. Otherwise, if you can’t show me the Scriptures that Jesus had children or was even married, then what you are saying would be completey by your own confession, but without word of God to back it up.

Jesus’ purpose for coming here was not to take a wife nor to have children. He came here specifically to kin himself to the human race and to live a perfect life in flesh without sin and by doing so fulfilling the righteous requires of the law, which we were unable to do, to take upon himself the wrath that we deserve and then to pay the penaly for sin on our behalf. He never came here to start a family and to be a part of the world.

Please show us the Scriptures where God says that Jesus was married and had children. Thanks!

Don said this on June 21, 2012 at 6:30 pm | Reply
So Adam..
Is barack with his two childen also Jesus to you…?????

Jesus is married to the church and we are his children….

e1313ruth said this on June 21, 2012 at 6:49 pm | Reply
Like I said. Jesus is living on earth now and he has 2 children. He is in the vatican now.ow.

Adam said this on June 21, 2012 at 6:59 pm | Reply
Hi Leatherneck,

If by “The Lie” you are referring to 2 Thes.2:11, which says:

“For this reason God sends them a powerful delusioin so that they will believe “The Lie” and so that all be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.”

The definition of the lie is described prior to this verse as the counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders which are in accordance with the workings of Satan, those signs being the same ones that are performed by the second beast, that false prophet on behalf of the first beast of Rev.13:13.

However, I do agree with you in that people are more willing to believe in aliens and human ghosts before they will recognize fallen angles/demons. There is a site that I go to called, “Your Ghost Stories” and when I attempt to inform these people that all true paranormal events that they are experiencing such as wall banging, scratchings, objects being moved, shadow people with red eyes, apparitions, cold spots, heaviness of air, orbs, mists, etc, are not being done by human spirits, but by demonic beings. When I tell them this, they become enraged and that because I am bringing God into the explanation. The fact is, that people today believe in what they see, touch, smell and experience. Therefore, when the see, say, the apparition of a little girl in 1920’s dress, they immediately believe that this is the spirit of a human girl, not taking into account that demonic beings are able to take on any form for the purpose of deception. Therefore, they never get to see who is realling causing the apparition of the little girl. They just believe what the see. I’m guessing that they don’t like the idea of believing that fallen angels/demonic beings are behind all hauntings, because if they were to believe that, then they would have to believe in the existance of God. Oh my!

If they had believed in what God’s word has to say about it, they would know that those who are in Christ when they die, go to be in the presence of the Lord (2 Cor.5:6-8, Phi.1:23). And those who do not belong to the Lord when the die are sent to Hades (Luke 16:19-31). They don’t understand that God does not allow human spirits to wander around the earth after death and that demonic beings are the ones who are behind all paranormal activity.

Case in point, look at all the ghost hunting that is going on now. You can even purchase your very own ghost hunting kit and there are a lot of people engaged in it. What these people do not understand, is that by calling upon spirits (even out of ignorance), they become mediums and spiritists, which keeps them separate from God and that becausea it is sin to seek after them and by doing so it also opens them up for demonic activity, oppression and even possession. The demonic beings know this and so they keep the masquarade going. What better what to keep people separated from the salvation of Christ, then by pretending to be human spirits, which keeps people seeking after them.

Don said this on June 21, 2012 at 7:30 pm | Reply
- So true Don my brother,
  
  You could also add John 5:24. to the above 2 Corinthians 5:6-8 and Philippians 1:23 as well.
  
  The Book of Enoch is a wonderful resource to utilize on this subject, as is the Book of Jubilees which within, explains as to when the time occurred that these fallen angels appeared on Earth and corrupted mankind.
  Jared, (who was the father of Enoch), which is written in Hebrew as , “ירד”, and transliterated as “Yered”, is defined as meaning “descent”, and within Jubilees 4:15. the verse states; “And in the second week of the tenth jubilee [449-55 A.M.] Mahalalel took unto him to wife DinaH, the daughter of Barakiel the daughter of his father’s brother, and she bare him a son in the third week in the sixth year, [461 A.M.] and he called his name Jared, for in his days the angels of the Lord descended on the earth, those who are named the Watchers, that they should instruct the children of men, and that they should do judgment and uprightness on the earth.”
  
  God the Almighty says to Enoch the righteous scribe in Chapter 6 verses 8 and 9., (as well as much more supporting evidence regarding this subject within the content of the Book)
  8 “And now the giants that have been begotten from body and flesh, will be called evil spirits upon the earth, and their dwelling places will be upon the earth.
  (9) Evil spirits proceed from their bodies; because they are created from above, their beginning and first basis being from the holy watchers, they will be evil spirits upon the earth, and will be called evil spirits.”
  
  Human beings consist of flesh (basar) and soul (nefesh) where as those that have accepted Yeshua as their Savior, have Spirit, (Rauch) also.
  They have been blessed with Gods Holy Spirit, (Rauch HaKodesh) as a promise for their Salvation, (Ephesians 1:13.)
  These then upon their death proceed directly to be in the presence of the Lord. (See the above 3 noted scriptures.)
  All of the others unfortunately, proceed directly to Hades because the are spiritually dead.
  
  There is no escape for a human soul in Hades to do anything. (Luke 16:19-31.) Therefore all of these spiritual encounters that people are experiencing are not that of human souls, but are rather from demonic entities.
  I think that many people simply choose to believe this lie, based upon the fact that if they believed the truth, they would have to admit their sin to a Holy God. It is far easier for satan to deceive those that don’t wish to entertain the truth of Yeshua.
  
  Praise Yeshua our Precious Savior. Our KING of kings and LORD of lords. Amen.
  To all be Blessed in Him.
  
  alienated said this on June 22, 2012 at 4:22 am | Reply
  - I agree with alienated.
    
    Leatherneck said this on June 22, 2012 at 6:24 pm | Reply
    - Leatherneck my brother,
      
      I pray that you are well.
      I am more or less back to being my normal self after what I can only equate to as being, a Divine encounter with the Father God, Son and Spirit.
      
      With that I would like to apologize to you, (and any others), for my obvious error in believing that the previous Shavu’ot, (Pentecost) was to be the date of the “gathering”.
      After my 40 year anniversary in being “born again” on March 15th., and a subsequent period of 40 days, (in which I started to experience visions) and then participating within what turned out to be a 40 day fast, (which was not of my choosing whatsoever), where I coincidentally lost 40 lbs. I am left with no other choice but to accept the above conclusion.
      
      Never before has God utilized me in healing others, however during this time, healing took place.
      Within my entire lifetime combined, I have never brought so many people into the fold than I was able through His grace, as over these last 3 months. Which many of the individuals have confirmed, (though I have witnessed the truth of Yeshua to them for years, and also prayed that God would draw them), that the defining factor which was the cause for their conversion, was the fact that they could feel the Holy Spirit flow from me into them as I laid my hands upon them in prayer.
      
      The above and what consists of considerably more that I could record here, is sufficient for me to fully believe what occurred as being from God.
      However my error was to associate the “feeling of immediacy” regarding the Vision of Revelation 1:3., (as I posted it on the Rapture and the Church of Philadelphia page), to that of the very next Feast.
      
      I am still left however, with the belief that Shavu’ot is somehow unique and significant in nature.
      It is the only Feast where “leaven” is offered and waved before the Lord God. (Leviticus 23:9-22.)
      The only Feast in which Firstfruits, (of which Yeshua was the Holy first), is mentioned.
      The Book of Ruth, (Ruth being King David’s Great Grandmother), is the perfect foretelling of Gentile redemption which takes place during Shavu’ot and is read in Synagogue’s during that time.
      David being born on Shavu’ot, (year 2854 and from creation, year 907 BCE) and then dying on that same exact date 70 years later.
      The fact that the Law was given on that date to Moses at Sinai, and that the blessing of the Spirit was given on the same date, it would make sense then for the Spirit to be taken away, (2 Thessalonians 2:6.), on that same anniversary.
      Then there is the Menorah and how the middle flame of the 7 represents Yeshua spiritually, and how that flame continually maintained its light, suggesting that a true fulfillment would require for the Feast to have 3 significant events associated to it.
      As well as numerous other examples of interesting significance, which leads me to still feel that this Feast will be unique somehow.
      
      However, I was wrong in my speculation that it would be the last one, and for that I apologize to all.
      May all be blessed in the Grace of our Savior. Yeshua our Precious KING of kings and LORD of lords. Amen.
      
      Love, a.
      
      alienated said this on June 22, 2012 at 8:24 pm | Reply
      - I don’t think you are wrong. It is just we are in this time, and space. G-d, as you know, is outside this time, and space, and can enter when or whereever G-d wishes.
        
        To me, G-d’s wrath is on this world, and growing due to as it was during Noah’s time. The murder, hate, homosexuality, UFO…
        
        No Sir, G-d has surely filled you with the Holy Spirit, but you are human and can not stay perfect. Even if you want to. Like me, you will sin somehow someway small, or big. G-d loves you anyway, and gave us Jesus because G-d knew we can not be perfect.
        
        Do not worry. You have helped many you have never seen, or know.
        
        Peace,
        
        Mark
        
        Leatherneck said this on June 23, 2012 at 12:08 pm | Reply
        
        Thank You Mark,
        
        It has always been my biggest fear to propagate falsehoods when it comes to the Word of God. To defile something so very pure.
        Though I would never do it intentionally, (and though blessed with the Spirit of truth), I am still merely flesh and unable to be anywhere close to perfection.
        
        It brought a smile to my face when I read what you wrote above, “No Sir, G-d has surely filled you with the Holy Spirit, but you are human and can not stay perfect.” simply because while in being full, while in that glorious state of feeling as close as I believe it is possible for us to feel as flesh to having Oneness with the Divine, I was more aware of, and confessed my sins more, (1 John 1:9.) throughout the course of the day than I do when merely being plain old me. lol. So over the course of say a week, from when the Spirit began to subside from the forefront of my reality, and I became more like the old dude that you would be more familiar with, all I was made more aware of, was how much more in being flesh we not only desire Yeshua, but desperately need Him as our only Hope. Bottom line then is, while being flesh, perfection is impossible, (Spirit filled or not). However, when we do stumble, we have an altar of Grace to approach in which He who forgives is Faithful and True, Amen.
        
        I have in my lifetime experienced two of these miraculous experiences now. The first which also started in March was in 1993, and comparatively, was far more profound than this one was. With it simply being the first, that in one respect would be the reason for it having more of a significant impact, but the things that I experienced were far more plentiful, and witnessed by others as well.
        
        With God the Father having created me, and knowing how I tick, He knew that I would somehow rationalize these demonstrations of His existence back then, by providing a more worldly, (or Psychological) explanation, and instead perhaps compartmentalize them into any given category of emotional illness. However, it was impossible for me to do this if these things were also witnessed by others.
        
        For just one small example regarding this…. during this event in 1993, (though having been born again 21 years prior), I had this overwhelming prompting to be Baptised. After having accomplished this out of obedience, I saw in my reflection of a mirror that my face was covered in blood. Now if this wasn’t witnessed by others, I am sure that you could understand how I could have quite easily dismissed it as merely being a hallucination.
        
        The above was just one example of a myriad of things that I experienced that were also witnessed by others, things that could simply not be rationalized away in the natural. (I tried to be perfect way back then during that first time, and realized then how futile that attempt was.) lol.
        Any way’s, having previously gone through that first experience, and after months of internal analytical deliberation, (me being me), I finally succumbed to the fact that I had had a Divine encounter with the Living God. So when I started to experience it all again, I knew what was happening this time and rested in Him.
        
        With that, I believe what was revealed within the Visions, (specifically that of Revelation 1:3.) as being a warning and a blessing.
        I believe that God the Father is letting many of us know worldwide that the time is short. But you are right regarding time Mark.
        Our understanding of short may be significantly different than His time frame of short.
        However if we look at the worldwide events that surround us, it is my belief that more time has past behind us than what is left. The warning consists of us becoming right with our Lord, having a heart that prioritizes Him, (rightfully so), as being our Master and in being first in our lives.
        The blessing will be revealed for those that heed the warning.
        “Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.” Luke 21:36. This in itself is a statement that consists of a warning and blessing, and should be taken to heart and considered seriously by all of us.
        
        All of the rest of what I experienced during the course of these last 3 months has yet to be revealed. I could literally fill up an entire thread with all that has happened. Much of which appears to parallel a ministry of an Apostle, (though far less significant of course), but it consisted of healing, conversion, visions, condemnation and lack of belief for His Name sake, (almost to a form of imprisonment. Long story, I’ll spare you. lol) and perhaps even prophecy? For I did witness something that I am not sure as of yet if it is actually happening in real time, or will happen at a future date?
        Nonetheless whether I understand it all at this point or not, I simply trust in the Almighty Lord God, our precious and glorious Savior and Holy Spirit.
        Everything that God does, is done with intention and purpose, and all will be revealed in His timing.
        
        Take Care and be Blessed in Him Mark my brother. You and yours are in my prayers every night.
        I’ll continue to post if I feel prompted to do so, though it is my hope that I am lead to serve Him more tangibly out there, rather than here.
        Praise our King and Lord Yeshua. May He be Worshipped for all of eternity and beyond.
        
        Love,
        a.
        
        Hi Al,
        
        I thought that I would take this opportunity to acknowledge you now too.
        “Yes” we will never agree on that specific topic that you are referring to above. We are on completely different sides of the fence on that one.
        But I don’t have the authority to judge you on it, nor do I wish to.
        So instead I simply wish you Shalom, (and all that word entails), and express my love for you in Yeshua HaMashiach our Holy King as well.
        Love,
        a.
        
        alienated said this on June 23, 2012 at 5:51 pm | Reply
        
        Whatever G-d has planned for you in the future, I hope you are strong, and do not fold.
        
        Leatherneck said this on June 23, 2012 at 7:36 pm | Reply
        
        LOL, That is my hope as well Mark.
        
        However with the spiritual warfare that I experienced over the last 3 months, (and still am experiencing to a lesser extent), I have only become stronger in that of Faith and Trust. For He that dwells within me is greater than he that is in the world, and there is nothing created that can defeat the Creator.
        
        My weakness allows for His strength to manifest, (and as stated in Ephesians 6), I simply hold my ground and “stand” in the Victory that has already been attained by Yeshua.
        
        I have no idea as to what my future will hold, (I do have some inklings regarding it…. though I can’t say for sure with any conviction).
        However may His will be done. Amen.
        
        The thing that I rest in is this though, and it has relevance regarding the aspect of time that you brought up earlier.
        Since we, (being formed within the Fathers mind), before the foundation of the world, and then being created for a specific purpose, with ‘Elohiym not being restricted by our physical dimension of time, and therefore being able to witness the Aleph and the Tav already, I highly doubt that any of us will fail within that of our created purpose.
        
        Our God is the God of Victory and not of failure, and we are Victorious through Yeshua our Lord.
        
        Thanks for the encouragement though. 🙂
        
        Be blessed in our KING of kings and LORD of lords.
        Our Savior Yeshua HaMashiach. Amen.
        Love,
        a.
        
        alienated said this on June 23, 2012 at 9:34 pm | Reply
      - Hey Alienated,
        
        It is good to hear from you! Even though we disagree on some very fundamental things, I have always enjoyed conversing with you and reading your posts. Hope you are “back”!!!!!!!
        
        Love you as a brother in Messiah Yahshua
        
        Al said this on June 23, 2012 at 2:43 pm | Reply
Adam,

You keep proclaiming that Jesus has 2 children, but you never give us proof through the Scriptures. There has to be somewhere where you are getting this information from, where is it written? Anything that you are claiming regarding God, must be backed up by his word, otherwise, it is just false teaching and therefore, there is no way to prove whether or not what you are saying is the truth. I can tell you beyond doubt that there is nothing in the word of God regarding Jesus being married and having children. There is nothing at all in the word of God that even hints about this subject. Who is teaching you these things?

Don said this on June 21, 2012 at 7:42 pm | Reply
- Don
  
  Jesaja 53:10 tells us that Jesus shall have Children.
  
  sorry for my late respons. Missed that you asked a question!
  
  Assertio Septem Sacramentorum said this on August 1, 2013 at 8:44 am | Reply
Pssst…
He’s got spies in the Vatican.
🙂

James Giordano said this on June 22, 2012 at 2:58 am | Reply
geomagnetic storms

http://thewatchers.adorraeli.com/2012/07/01/possible-geomagnetic-storms-today-tomorrow/
–

Marianne said this on July 1, 2012 at 1:01 pm | Reply
total eclipses….nasa

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2022_lunar_eclipse

http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/LEdecade/LEdecade2011.html

http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov/LEdecade/LEdecade2021.html

http://www.mreclipse.com/Special/LEnext.html

Marianne said this on November 30, 2012 at 12:53 pm | Reply
Mayans were astrologers…That fact alone shows they did not know the time of the end, not to mention the fact Jesus said no man knows..

The sun being turned to darkness and the moon to blood has absolutely nothing to do with eclipses, etc.
2 Kings 23-5..And he put down the idolatrous priests, whom the kings of Judah had ordained to burn incense in the high places in the cities of Judah, and in the places round about Jerusalem; them also that burned incense unto …..Baal, …..to the sun, ……..and to the moon, …..and to the planets, …and to all the host of heaven.

The truth is the astrology worship of the sun, moon and stars which is stilll very much prevalent today is what it is speaking of…Hinduism, Buddah, ISlam and more all originate in the ancient astrology worship….
The astrology worship consisted of Baal, the sun, moon, and five planets who are in reality satan and his seven demons….See Rev. 12-43,44,45 about the last generation who are inhabited by these eight entities…

The sun being turned to blackness and the moon into blood is about these ruling entities of the ancient astrology worship..

Jeremiah 8-2.. And they shall spread them before the sun, and the moon, and all the host of heaven, whom they have loved, and whom they have served, and after whom they have walked, and whom they have sought, and whom they have worshipped: they shall not be gathered, nor be buried; they shall be for dung upon the face of the earth.

…And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; Deut 17-3 shows the sun and moon were OTHER GODS

e1313ruth said this on November 30, 2012 at 6:34 pm | Reply
4squared..Job 38-32..Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season-time? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?
Mazzaroth is HE who laid the foundation for the astrology worship…The name MAZZROTH means zodiac in Hebrew..Job is speaking about mazzaroth coming for in his season or TIME…
Tthis coming forth is the APOLLYON of Rev. 9 and Rev 20….The apollyon was the original SUN GOD…Apollyon is in fact another way of spelling APOLLO…This entity is satan….

This mazzaroth aka satan could not come forth in flesh untill two things occured… see 2 Thessalonians 2….One is the great falling away from Christ and the other is satan was chained in hell till after the 1000 year reign of peace with Christ..2 Thessalonians 2-6

The demons named legion knew they would be returned to earth during judgment.. hence they said to Jesus..
Matthew 8-29..And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

e1313ruth said this on November 30, 2012 at 7:01 pm | Reply
Hi e1313ruth and all,

e1313 said:
“The apollyon was the original SUN GOD…Apollyon is in fact another way of spelling APOLLO…This entity is satan….”

Now please read the following Scriptures:

“They had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek, Apollyon.”

“Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to make war against the rider on the horse and his army. But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.”

“And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. 2He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.”

First, I trust that you will agree that the Scriptures above are speaking about the same beast who is prevelant throughout Revelation. At the blowing of the 5th trumpet, those demonic beings are let out of the Abyss to torment the inhabitiants of the earth with the stings of Scorpions and their king is that angel of the Abyss, the beast, who also comes out of the Abyss at that time.

When Jesus returns to this earth to end this current age and to begin His thousand year reign, one of the first events to take place is that the beast and the false prophet are captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire (Rev.19:19-20). Then, an angel comes down having the key to the Abyss, which will have remained open since the 5th trumpet, and he will seize Satan and bind him in the Abyss, locking it back up during that thousand years. So tell us, how can you conclude that the Beast and Satan are the same, when at Christ’s return, the beast is thown into the lake of fire and Satan is thrown into the Abyss? Not only that, but Scripture states that Satan gives his power and authority to the beast (Rev.13:2), showing that the beast and Satan are two separte individuals. The very fact that the beast and Satan are thrown into two different places would support that they are two different entitiies.

Also, you said:

“One is the great falling away from Christ and the other is satan [was] chained in hell till after the 1000 year reign of peace with Christ.”

The chronological order of events in Scripture are as follows:

* Seven years of tribulation/great tribulation
* Physical, visual return of Christ to this current earth to end the age
* Beast/Apollyon and the false prophet thrown into the lake of fire.
* Satan bound in the Abyss for a thousand years
* Thousand year reign of Christ
* End of the thousand years
* Satan let out of the Abyss at the end of the 1000 years
* Satan gathers the inhabitiants of the earth for battle and are killed
* Satan is thrown into the lake of fire
* Resurrection of the lost dead out of Hades.
* Lost dead are judged at the Great white throne judgment
* This current heaven and earth depart from God’s presence
* Lost dead are thrown into the lake of fire
* Death and Hades are thrown into the lake of fire
* New heaven, new earth, new Jerusalem
* Eternity………………………………………………………….

My point is that, how can you claim that Satan has already been bound for a 1000 years, when the Lord hasn’t even returned to end the age and start his millennial kingdom yet? Scripture states that Satan is as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour. That’s kind of hard to do if he in the Abyss. Also, Scripture states that Satan is the prince of the power of the air and that he accuses the saints before God day and night, which would show that he is currently out and about in heaven and on planet earth. Satan could not yet have been restricted in the Abyss for a 1000 years and that because his restriction in the Abyss takes place during the same 1000 years that Christ will be ruling and that hasn’t happened yet.

I hope that this sheds some light on the subject.

Yours in Christ

dmcal52 said this on December 1, 2012 at 12:38 am | Reply
- [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands;
  It is glaringly apparent the beast is Islam aka satan’s kingdom…These are who behead Christians because of the witness of Jesus and the Word of God…
  Mohammed is the head of the Islamic beast.. That qualifies him to be satan…. Mohammed promised he would return as madhi…. The koran speaks of his return after 1000 years…koran ..[20.102] On the day when the trumpet shall be blown, and We will gather the guilty, blue-eyed, on that day
  [20.103] They shall consult together secretly: You did tarry but ten (centuries).
  Mohammed returns as madhi to gather The blue eyed guilty (means non muslim and nor arabic)…And these speak of his tarrying 10 centuries – 1000 years…
  
  Mohammed’s hordes killed and plundered the world until the crusades showed them down..Islam is back in full force of jihad now and their madhi is here… He showed us with his sunrise in the west logo as prophesied by mo himself.. and with his name HUSSEIN the only name Mohammed left his descendants via his grandsons…
  
  Paul told us that Mohammed is Satan in 2 Corinthians 11-4,14… Satan comes as an angel of light-means messiah, …He brings another gospel- means Koran… The other gospel teaches Issa, who is not Son of God and another spirit who is not the real God of Abraham..This qualifies mohammed, koran, muslims all antichrist…1 John 2-22..
  
  I am pretty sure the 1000 reign of Christ was what Christians have experienced till the madhi-satan returns to convert all to Islam or make life hell on earth…as we are beginning to experience now…
  
  e1313ruth said this on May 21, 2013 at 6:22 pm | Reply
  - I’m having trouble with the logic of your statements above.
    First, you claim that the beast is Satan’s kingdom, OK I’ll buy that, but then you make the leap that it is Islam. But that does not follow logically. Yes, Islam is antichrist but so is Buddhism, Hindi and all other religions including Judaism. Therefore all of these followers must die as they are equally guilty. But when has God ever destroyed ppeople or nations because they were of the “wrong” religion? Never!
    What God HAS done, over and over, is to punish His OWN people for breaking His commandments. Noah’s flood, the exodus’ 40 years of wandering, Sodom and Gomorrah and the Babylonian captivity are all examples.
    God never punishes people for being ignorant of His religion. He punishes those within His religion for becoming apostate and breaking His laws. This is the theme of the Book of Revelation.
    Your next point, that Mohammed will return as Mahdi after 1000 years is about 500 years too late. The numbers don’t jive.
    And that point also assumes that one believes that the prophecy of Mohammed is true and that Satan has the power to resurrect him. Are you really willing to admit that Mohammed had the gift of prophecy and that the Koran is a true and holy book? Your whole concept hinges on this being true. But in my opinion the Koran is a bunch of BS made up by a power-hungry lunatic and nothing more.
    And as for Mohammed being Satan, that can’t be true since Satan is an angelic being and Mohammed was a human being, perhaps influenced by Satan, but not Satan himself.
    As for the HUSSEIN reference, I’m not sure if you are referring to Obama, as many here believe, so I will reserve commenting on that until you explain in more detail.
    Somehow Satan has succeeded in deflecting attention from the Christian churches who are clearly the subject of the Book of Revelation as seen from the first three chapters, onto the Muslim nations simply because they hate all religions other than their own. While it helps Christians feel good about themselves by shifting the problem to Islam, in the end it will result in most Christians following the beast while thinking they are doing God’s work.
    Ask not for whom the bell tolls… it tolls for thee.
    Bless.
    
    James Giordano said this on May 21, 2013 at 9:43 pm | Reply
Yup !! Moon is dark, it is most horror scene, I have listen about the end day of the earth. I am waiting for that day because I want to watch it by my eyes.

green superfood said this on December 15, 2012 at 9:34 am | Reply
Good day Green Superfood, Ha!

You said:
“Yup !! Moon is dark, it is most horror scene, I have listen about the end day of the earth. I am waiting for that day because I want to watch it by my eyes.”

Brother, you do not want to be here on the earth when the wrath of God is taking place. Something better to be waiting for is the appearing of the Lord to remove his church from this earth before God’s wrath is poured out.

Yours in Christ

dmcal52 said this on December 15, 2012 at 11:36 pm | Reply
i was born 11 13 1976 add it all up and down ?

c a h said this on December 29, 2012 at 9:12 pm | Reply
I was searching for paranormal stuff and came across your post. Very interesting, the blood moon and the wrath of god have intrigued my thoughts. Keep your eyes in the skies

Bob said this on January 12, 2013 at 4:43 am | Reply
- hi bob
  
  We are definitely keeping our eyes on the skies. There will be warnings, and blessings to come. Evil – ie more evil – is to come, and then a redemption from that evil.
  
  Marianne said this on January 12, 2013 at 9:49 am | Reply
Hello anonymous

Red moons can happen characteristically. They are most regularly viewed in the fall. They are now and then called the harvest moon.

Truly Original Wedding Favors said this on February 24, 2013 at 6:39 am | Reply
- Truly,
  I believe you are thinking of Blue moons which refers to the second full moon in the same calendar month which happens randomly three out of every 2-3 years – whenever the first full moon fall on or near the first day of the month so that 29.5 days later there may be another one.
  If this happens in the fall (harvest season) the blue moon is also called a harvest moon as it gives farmers more time after sunset to bring in their harvest.
  Hope this helps.
  
  James Giordano said this on February 24, 2013 at 8:02 am | Reply
THIS IS THE GREAT WONDER IN HEAVEN…

Revelation 12-1..And there appeared a GREAT WONDER IN HEAVEN; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

The key to understanding Revelation 12 is researching WONDERS IN HEAVEN..
.
Acts 2-19…And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
Acts 2-20..The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

Revelation 6-12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.The mighty wind is false doctrine (Ephs 3-14) and the mighty wind is Satan’s version of the mighty wind at Pentecost.when God filled his own with his Spirit…..The fallen Christians are now indwelled by sin the moon god aka Satan, hence the moon becomes blood

These verses are about Revelation 12… This woman is a great WONDER in Heaven.. She is clothed with the sun-meaning the sun of righteousness-Jesus..The moon under her feet is none other than Satan who is the moon god…..The stars in her crown are the Christian congregation…. One third of these stars are cast down to the earth via the dragon’s tail (false prophet)..

It is this one third of the stars-Chrstians who forsake their clothing of light..Mal. 4-2 and Mattt 13-43..Psalms 132-9…
Satan aka the moon god is under her feet waiting to be bruised….Romans 16-20..

The moon becoming blood is the act of Satan indwelling these fallen Christians-stars… Rev 6-12 compares These fallen stars
To a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a MIGHTY WIND.The mighty wind is false doctrine and the mighty wind is Satan’s version of the mighty wind at Pentecost …The fallen stars -Christians are now indwelled by sin the moon god thereby the moon being turned to blood.

This one third that falls have their feet now unclad of the gospel of Christ armor of God… They are bruised with the stoney doctrines of the serpent….

The two thirds of this woman-stars hidden in the wilderness are now fed from the face of the serpent…
Wilderness is the key….Psalms 74-14 Thou brakest the heads of leviathan in pieces, [and] gavest him [to be] meat to the people inhabiting the wilderness…..She can now glean truth about and out of the serpents lies…

The dragon then goes to make WAR WITH THE REMNANT OF HER SEED….

This woman is the woman of Genesis 3-15 and Rev12 is prophecy of the battle of the seed of the serpent and the seed of the woman… And it is not over yet….

The dragon continues the war in Revelation 13…We are living in the part when the dragon beast is revived and continues three and one half years…About the same length of time as Obama’s remaining term as president…

Satan cleverly convinced Chrstians that they would be taken away in the rapture before the final tribulation and the advent of antichrist…. Wake up guys we are eyeball deep in tribulation now..The rapture misconception was invented so antichrist would not be recognized….He could not appear until after this rapture…

When the Bible says we will be caught up in the air and so shall we EVER BE WITH THE LORD…Does this mean we will be living in the AIR??? Think about it…..

The truth is Satan is the prince of the POWER OF THE AIR… When he is locked up forever in hell we will be in the AIR WITH THE LORD FOREVER…This mortal will put on immortality, this corruption will put on incorruption…. When he shall appear we shall be like Him…
..

e1313ruth said this on February 24, 2013 at 8:50 pm | Reply
- I have never heard that before, that the moon under the feet was islam, and the stars are fallen christians.
  
  Marianne said this on February 25, 2013 at 12:44 am | Reply
- So are you claiming that Obama is the antichrist? And the tribulation has begun? 3-1/2 years till the Second Coming?
  If so, where is the mark of the beast? What will it be and who will implement it?
  Where is the Muslim beast kingdom that will take over the New World Order? If we are that close to the end, we should see a lot of things happening by now – One-World Government, One world Currency, One-World religion etc, right?
  Many here have claimed the tribulation would begin this spring, with the antichrist in power and the chipping of the world would be in full force. So far, nothing. Just rhetoric. A lot of talk but no action.
  SO show us how exactly we are in the tribulation and how it will soon unfold.
  inquiring minds want to know…
  
  James Giordano said this on May 22, 2013 at 2:23 am | Reply
  - she may mean we are on the threshold of the last week, which includes 2 – 3 1/2 year periods.
    
    Marianne said this on May 22, 2013 at 10:43 am | Reply
The moon under the women’s feet represents satan as stated in Romans 16-20…
Satan always since Genesis 3 has claimed to be god i.e. the moon god named sin… Both the wilderness of sin and mt. sinai were named after this moon god named sin… This creature is allah…

Rev 12 The moon under her feet has not yet had his head bruised or crushed by God.. That takes place when the woman is hid away in the wilderness… Psalms 74-14..

History and archeology confirms that the allah of Islam is the ancient moon god named sin, hubal in arabic that mohammed picked out to declare as being the god of Abraham.. He was satan, not the God of Abraham…

e1313ruth said this on February 25, 2013 at 2:21 am | Reply
*This is wonderful discover. But before the blood moon, Matt 24 says that there will be tribulation. The peak of this tribulation is the Mark Of The Beast. The mark will restrict the saints from business, transportation, communication, feeding etc. My question is; IS THERE ANY BIBLE PASSAGE THAT TELLS US HOW THE SAINTS WILL SUPERNATURALLY SURVIVE THESE TIME AND WHERE IT IS IN THE BIBLE? All the scriptures I read from Daniel to Revelation say that the power of the saints will be crushed.

Prince Dawodu said this on May 20, 2013 at 11:07 pm | Reply
- dear Prince Dawodu
  
  Revelation 12 describes the woman who flees into the wilderness where she is protected by God,,,,,at first this seems to only describe Israel, but later it mentions that her children have the testimony of jesus christ.
  
  I believe God was indicating that there will be a wilderness experience of some sort, and God will be providing for his people, just like he did in the desert wilderness thousands of years ago.
  
  Maybe the power of the saints will be crushed, but they will have the power of God to protect them.
  
  Marianne said this on May 21, 2013 at 12:39 am | Reply
God has a purpose in all this madness..He as promised is taking the tares out of his church… The one third of the stars the dragon drags out of the woman’s crown are the tares being removed… These are cast down to earth and are the EARTH beast that HAD (past tense) two horns like a lamb but now speaks like the dragon cause these are now indwelt by the dragon,aka satan…

The two horns like a lamb shows these were once Christians… These are the same false prophets who come in sheep’s clothing but are inwardly revenous wolves of Matthew 7-15..until they graduate to being indwelled by the dragon…The revenous wolves grow up together with the wheat ….God is taking hem out of the church and is delivering them to destruction as Matt 7 says the broad way that LEADS TO DESTRUCTION.. The destruction is Islam..and the indwelling of the dragon/satan…

2 Thessalonains 2-3..Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Son of perdition means satan’s indwells them and they are sons of satan… this is counterfeit of the rebirth when Christ indwells men and they are called Son of God..
2 Thessalonians 2-4…Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Satam indwells these fallen ones and says he is God and above all, aka allah…He indwells heir bodies which are THE TEMPLE OF GOD…
.

e1313ruth said this on May 21, 2013 at 7:05 pm | Reply
Luke 21-8 through 18..
Luke 21-15,17,18… NOT AN HAIR ON YOUR HEAD WILL PERISH..
For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist…And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name’s sake. But there shall not an hair of your head perish.

e1313ruth said this on May 21, 2013 at 7:15 pm | Reply
Jaames
Giordiano…
Satan’s kingdom is a counterfeit of God’s kingdom…The dragon and his heads pose as the god of Abraham,, The first beast is the messiah counterfeit of Jesus messiah… As JESUS WaS INDWELLED OF GOD”S SPIRIT,…..The beast is indwelled by Satan and his seven demons…This is Mohammed… He was a complete counterfeit of Jesus… He claimed blood lines to Abraham, He brought a covenant gospel, He said he was the way, he truth and the light..He said he was the holy ghost comforter… He said he ascended into heaven and descended into hell…He said he would return during judgment…
I think the 1000 tarrying of the Mohammed beast began when the third imam was put into a well and lingered there….The 1000 years would begin then… I think mohammad was Satan in the flesh and I think he indwelled the first three imams…
Lucifer said he would be like god…He accomplished this through the beast and the false worship of Islam.. Incidentally Islam is the only other religion that claim blood lines to Abraham ….

Mohammed was not a prophet..

Ishmael and his descendants.. did not possess the gate to Heaven.. This gate came out of Isaac, Jacob and Rebecca..Jesus is this gate and the only gate..

.
God dubbed Abraham’s descendants as stars or sand for specific purposes…
Genesis 22-17…That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which [is] upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;

Genesis 24-60…And they blessed Rebekah, and said unto her, Thou [art] our sister, be thou [the mother] of thousands of millions, and let thy seed possess the gate of those which hate them.

Genesis 28-16,17And he dreamed, and behold a ladder set up on the earth, and the top of it reached to heaven: and behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it. .
.And he was afraid, and said, How dreadful [is] this place! This [is] none other but the house of God, and this [is] the gate of heaven.

John 1-51.And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man..

Also I think the mark of the beast is counterfeit of how God marks his people… The name written in their minds-forehead… And the Koran lie in their hands.. Isaiah 44-20…He feedeth on ashes: a deceived heart hath turned him aside, that he cannot deliver his soul, nor say, [Is there] not a lie in my right hand?

e1313ruth said this on May 22, 2013 at 1:42 am | Reply
James…
You man not accept this either…about the hour of temptation we are in now..
Rev 3-9, 10…Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

The God of Abraham is worshiped in a synagogue… Synagogue of satan is when satan claims he is the god worshiped in a synagogue.. aka the God of Abraham..aka islam…
This family of satan says they are jews, (means chosen) via Ishmael….
This hour of temptation is when Islam tries to force the entire world to bow down to the allah creature…It is happening world wide now…

e1313ruth said this on May 22, 2013 at 1:51 am | Reply
- So are you saying that the Koran is the mark of the beast? So only Muslims will have the mark? So Christians won’t be involved.
  This would mean that a Muslim antichrist would have to enforce the mark worldwide, forcing everyone to become a Muslim and to follow the Koran.
  Am I close or are you anticipating something completely different?
  I’ve just never heard your theory before.
  
  James Giordano said this on May 22, 2013 at 3:52 am | Reply
Some Christians, specifically the tares will take the mark of the beast because they convert to Islam..
Did you know Zech 5-1, 3 speaks of a book that goes over the entire earth and is a curse… The word curse in this verse is spelled alah in Hebrew..

Likewise in Isaiah 24-6 and chapter… The world is cursed and becomes desolate… CURSE SPELLED alah in Hebrew in this verse…Note the word DESOLATE… This is the abomination that makes desolate as is also the Gospel of Matthew 24-14,15

Deut. 29-18,19.. the curse is serving oher gods.. it is spelled alah
…
Daniel 9-11..Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that [is] written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him. CURSE SPELLED ALAH…

This verse says the CURSE is the oath that is written in the law(s) of Moses.. Islamic doctrine is same as moses cursed laws… cut off heads, hands, feet, kill adulters, homosexuals, balsphemy for sying god has a son,
,Pharisees of John 8 that had Jesus killed dd so because of this blasphemy law…These pharisees said hey worshipped the God of Abraham…Jesus said they were not sons of Abraham but seed and they worshiped satan and were children of satan…These according to history were descendants of Ishmael and Esau and were forced converts to judaism…

Obama was raised a muslim…He also took the shahada oath in the presence of a newspaperman….He has been forcing islam on the mases in his deceptive ways….He is also trashing Christianity and Christians at every step… He is behind the Chrislam churches in Usa…

Obama is the bad guy it is plain to see
He is plotting the demise of you and of me.
He told the U.N .that Christians future is nil
If they speak the truth about Islam still ..

He said Christians and Muslim must unite as one
If the future they seek is to be won.
This forced union clearly establishes the lie
That Allah is the same god Christians hold nigh..

But God gave us warning of the two ways
That would befall mankind in the latter days
The way on the rock that leads to the God of Abraham
And the broad way on sand that leads to the moon god of Islam

e1313ruth said this on May 22, 2013 at 3:20 pm | Reply
- Once again, you are using false logic to come to your conclusions.
  Actually, I think you came to your conclusion early on and now you are looking for bible phrases that you can take out of context and try to apply them to future events. And using similarities in spelling, coming from two languages that don’t even use similar characters being translated into a third language has no validity. Try translating it into Swahili or Russian and see if it works in every language. You simply can not use these techniques to prove a point.
  As far as Obama goes, nice poem but it is all just wishful thinking. Many people who believe the beast is Islam are looking for a powerful leader who could become a world-leading antichrist dictator. So Obama is a likely target. They all claim he is a Muslim even though he has never been seen going into a mosque to worship and has declared many times that Jesus is God. A true Muslim could not do these things without being declared an infidel, so such a person could never rise to the head of an Islamic empire.
  Now, you claim we are in the last 3-1/2 years of the tribulation, and that Obama is the antichrist, yet nothing matches the prophecy. There is no New World Order, One-World Government, One world Currency, or One-World religion as everyone predicts. There are no plans to chip the worlds population and eliminate all currencies throughout the world. And there are certainly no plans in the works for all nations to give up their sovereignty and join together under the rule of some Muslim dictator, and especially not under Obama.
  So as I have said, all you have is a hair-brained interpretation of prophecy and a few word-tricks to attempt to back it up.
  But when it comes to the signs, we have nothing. Not even close. Just innuendo about possibilities. What we have here is another case like the Mayan calendar and the so-called “end of the world” on Dec. 21st, 2012. So many people were sure it was true and now they look like fools.
  Now we all have to wait three more years to find out if Obama will become leader of the earth or simply retire like every other president. This happened with Jimmy Carter many years ago. Some people still claim Carter will become the antichrist. Go figure.
  And your contention that the mark of the beast is converting to Islam makes no sense to me. Anyone leaving the true faith will automatically lose the gift of eternal life, which is the ultimate punishment. But as I said, God doesn’t punish those of other faiths, He only punishes His own people for breaking His commandments and for following the traditions of man, such as pagan practices within the churches.
  And the antichrist will claim to be God, or in your scenario, Allah. But no Muslim on earth would ever worship a former American president as almighty Allah. That will NEVER happen. In fact, they would not worship any man as Allah, so the whole idea is crazily flawed. Completely illogical.
  But most people think with their hearts rather than their brains and throw out all logic in favor of whatever makes them feel better. In other words, they like it so they buy it.
  In your case you are not going to like what is about to happen because it will be about YOU and not Muslims. But the Book of Revelation was not written for and about Muslims. You seem to believe that all you have to do is stay a Christian and you will be safe from the mark. That is far from the truth and that belief will trip up many or most Christians when the tribulation arrives. You may end up following the beast without even realizing what the beast is.
  If you continue to wait for your scenario to unfold you will still be waiting when Christ returns. So please keep an eye out for the true signs and when you see them you might recognize the errors in your theory and get on the true path.
  I pray that everyone will be able to do the same.
  Bless.
  
  James Giordano said this on May 22, 2013 at 7:35 pm | Reply
http://beforeitsnews.com/opinion-conservative/2013/07/gigantic-chunk-of-sun-headed-toward-earth-at-2-million-miles-an-hour-video-2689334.html

Marianne said this on July 31, 2013 at 1:42 am | Reply
- chunk of sun missing, headed our way…may cause blackouts, EMP type reactions.
  
  Marianne said this on July 31, 2013 at 1:44 am | Reply
The fact that this type of event occurs all the time means that this was not a sign from God, at least not one of the prophetic signs we are all looking for.
Also, since in general ejecta from the sun is thrown out on an axis from the center of the sun thru the surface at the eruption, and the fact that the missing material came from the northern hemisphere of the sun and not the equator, means that very little of this material will ever reach the earth.
Also, if the event happened when the sun, which rotates every 11 hours, was facing away from the earth, then there won’t be any particles heading towards earth. Add to that the fact that the energy of the event dissipates at the square of the distance, and I doubt that this will amount to a hill of beans in the biblical sense.

Jim Giordano said this on July 31, 2013 at 4:58 am | Reply
I am agree that naturally the sun, moon and stars cannot turn dark all at the same time.Something huge would have to come between the earth and the sun, so as to block out all light, if that is possible.

Black magic specialist baba said this on July 31, 2013 at 8:02 am | Reply
I am agree that naturally the sun, moon and stars cannot turn dark all at the same time.Something huge would have to come between the earth and the sun, so as to block out all light, if that is possible.

Black magic specialist baba said this on July 31, 2013 at 8:49 am | Reply
- There is virtually nothing that could block all sunlight from the entire earth and moon at the same time. Anything that big and that close would alter the earth’s orbit. Plus, there is almost no way for a rogue object to have an orbit that would take it directly between the earth and the sun.
  The darkening mentioned in the bible must come from the earth itself. Most likely clouds of dust from earthquakes or volcanic eruptions, both of which are actually specified in the bible, so it would make sense that the darkening of the sun, moon and stars would be a result of the other events.
  
  Jim Giordano said this on July 31, 2013 at 10:25 am | Reply
  - when nibiru comes between the sun and earth then joel, acts and Rev will be fullfilled.
    
    assertio septem sacramentorum said this on July 31, 2013 at 11:18 am | Reply
  - the man said the chunk of plasma is 80 times the size of the earth.
    
    use your mind
    
    what could something that large do?
    
    Marianne said this on July 31, 2013 at 11:53 am | Reply
    - It could make for a real nice aurora display.
      You act like the entire mass of particles are heading toward the earth together like a rifle bullet, but that’s not how physics works. It is more like a shotgun blast with small pellets spreading out as they travel.
      A rifle can reach over 3 miles but a shotgun only reaches 50 feet, and at that distance the pellets don’t have enough force and velocity left to do much damage.
      The same is true of ionized particles from the sun. By the time they reach the earth they have cooled off and are no longer in the plasma state, which takes a lot of energy to maintain.
      And it has been more than 48 hours since the event so the particles have already reached the distance of the earths orbit and I see nothing in the news about any outages or other effects, so this was a non-event, as I predicted.
      But you keep your tin foil hat on for a few more days, just in case. 🙂
      
      Jim Giordano said this on August 1, 2013 at 4:41 am | Reply
      - I am only repeating what the scientists said.
        
        Marianne said this on August 1, 2013 at 8:00 am | Reply
I forgatt to mention. Matt 24 also mentions the sun gets dark. so Nibiru will fullfill joel, acts, rev, matt 🙂

assertio septem sacramentorum said this on July 31, 2013 at 3:05 pm | Reply
- yes it does sound like it
  
  Marianne said this on July 31, 2013 at 10:22 pm | Reply
You can not solve God’s mysteries by divining of the heavens.. His mysteries are always solved in his Word….Divining of the sun, moon and/or stars is forbidden by God..

Read all of Joel 2 to understand the sun and moon being turned to darkness..It happens because a great army causes God’s people to fall away into darkness..See verse 10…The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining: In this verse the sun and moon are turned to darkness and the stars withdraw their shining… After Christians encounter this great army and its doctrines they lose the sun of righteousness and the moon is turned to BLOOD and these stars-Christians fall from heaven..

Verse 30, 31…..And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come. THESE WONDERS ARE NOT IN THE ACTUAL HEAVENS , These wonders are in the heavenly realm of Revelation 12…The first wonder is the woman clothed with the sun, the moon under her feet and a crown of 12 stars..She is the Christian church…Clothed with the sun means clothed with the SUN of righteous…The moon under her feet is Satan, aka sin the moon god…Sin will be bruised in the head by the two thirds of the stars (Christians).These two thirds are the seed of the woman of Genesis 3-15……
The other third of these stars -Christians will have their heel bruised by the doctrines of the enemy thereby marring the Gospel of Christ which is part of the Armour of God.. Our feet are clothed with the word of God..
The moon being turned to blood is what happens when these are indwelled by Satan the moon god…..He indwells their hearts and minds and consequently their blood…The moon turns into blood..
These fallen Christians are those of 2 Thess 2….They are called the man-men of sin… Because sin the moon god aka Satan indwells their temples..Their temples are their bodies…Our bodies are the temple of God according to Scripture..

Verse 17.And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. This woman and her seed are the woman and her seed of Genesis 3-15…The dragon and his tail (false teachers) are the serpent and his seed…

In other verses these events are said to be as a fig falling out of the fig tree… Figs falling out of the fig tree means they fall away from the true god and follow another entity..

Also the fallen Christians are cast down to earth …These fallen Christians are the earth beast of Rev 13…These come out of the earth…They HAD two horns like a lamb…. This means they were Christians,, but they now speak as the dragon…This is because the dragon -Satan now indwells them…can anyone say chrislam???

e1313ruth said this on July 31, 2013 at 6:55 pm | Reply
- 1313
  I know you are wrong about everything you say. regarding Joel 2. our father gave his spirit over the disciples and apostles so they could see future and have dreams. sun gets dark after that so it describes a moment after apostles saw dreams about future.
  
  Rev 12 is about archangel michael/jesus birth that occurd about 40 years ago so the 1-4 verses and halv of the fifth is fullfilled 40 years ago. the rest of the fifth vers will be fullfilled when Jesus will be taken up to Nibiru in future. he is there now but he will be taken there in near future again. then Jesus/Michael will fight against satan and Jesus friends that is me and my friends will fight against satan angels. after we beat the sh-t out of them they will be trown down to earth and persecute Christians. me and my friends are described in chap 12 of Rev. as thoosé who were ready to die for Jesus/michael. I know this for sure because the Church has told us that we are the ones that will fight soon. we are waiting.
  
  assertio septem sacramentorum said this on July 31, 2013 at 7:45 pm | Reply
  - ASS,
    As usual, you are just making up a story that has no relation to the bible, but only in your weird head. Of course, anything to do with Nibiru is automatically made up since there is no such planet, but your ideas are so far out there, you’re not even near the ball park.
    If you’re going to have to fight evil demons with the word of God, you’re in big trouble dude.
    
    Jim Giordano said this on August 1, 2013 at 4:03 am | Reply
- e,
  You seem to think everything in the Book of Revelation is a metaphor for something more mundane and simpler. What about the earthquakes and other disasters? Do they represent something completely different?
  Is the mark a real mark or a metaphor?
  I’m just wondering how far you take the metaphor concept…
  
  Jim Giordano said this on August 1, 2013 at 2:17 am | Reply
assertio, do you even know who will be fighting? Or what you will be fighting with.?…
Do you know who the teacher of spiritual things is.. It is the Holy Ghost comforter

Do you know who the enemy is……..Satan and his kids do not come as evil….They come professing satan to be the god of abraham and denying that Jesus is Son of God and God is father..

e1313ruth said this on July 31, 2013 at 10:31 pm | Reply
- E1313
  Like I said before, Jesus/Michael will fight with satan and we that are his friends will fight against satan angels. They have bodies. We will beat the sh-t out of them and after that they will be thrown down to earth and persecute Christians.
  
  You are right about one thing. The woman has the moon under her feet. Jesus/Michael is born in muslim area. Thats why it written that she has the moon under her feet.
  
  Assertio Septem Sacramentorum said this on August 1, 2013 at 8:40 am | Reply
Jim..Lucifer in flesh is the one who causes the earth to tremble.. That is what earthquakes do…He also made the kingdom of god christians to shake off their foundation…
Isaiah 14-16..They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, [and] consider thee, [saying, Is] this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

Mohammed made the earth to trimble and when he returns as promised we will know who he is..The beast -apollyon of Rev. returns after 1000 years to fool the people again…
Anbd strangely enough mohamad spoke of his return after 1000 years..
[20.102] On the day when the trumpet shall be blown, and We will gather the guilty, blue-eyed, on that day
[20.103] They shall consult together secretly: You did tarry but ten (centuries).
[20.104] We know best what they say, when the fairest of them in course would say: You tarried but a day.

A day is as a thousand years…

e1313ruth said this on August 1, 2013 at 2:48 am | Reply
Jim I am sure in most scriptures earthquakes mean actual earthquakes…

As for the mark of the beast in the right hand…..The bible speaks of strange children who cannot discern they have a lie in their right hand..
Isaiah 44-20…That would mean the koran is the mark….The mark in the forehead is the name of their god allah…

The beast is a counterfeit of the kingdom of God….The dragon and his seven heads are counterfeit of the God of Abraham.. The first beast is a counterfeit of messiah Jesus including his return… The earth beast are the fallen christians who think the beast is the god of abraham…

Read Matthew 12-43,44,45 about satan and his seven heads(demons) indwelling those who were swept clean and garnished.. i.e. former christians…

e1313ruth said this on August 1, 2013 at 3:02 am | Reply
e,
I must say, you have a number of clever definitions, such as the mark in the forehead is the name of Allah. Not 666, but actual letters? Where is that mentioned in the bible?
And who is going to resurrect the dead body of Mohammed? If God is angry at Muslims and plans to destroy them (as Babylon) then why would He take their esteemed leader and bring him back to life? And how do you suppose this will happen? Will a beam of light come down from heaven over Mohammed’s grave and the world will witness him coming back to life, like a zombie? Or will some Muslim just step up and claim to be Mohammed, and the world, instead of thinking he is nuts, will jump right in and toss Jesus to the curb and follow such a man? Would you? Would any Christian you know? I don’t think even the Muslim world would buy into such a story.
It’s one thing to make such assertions, but it is quite another to get the world from where we are today to that world you describe in your scenarios.
Call me a skeptic (please, do) but I’m just not seeing anything like that ever happening.

Jim Giordano said this on August 1, 2013 at 10:50 am | Reply
- james
  
  with this kind of thinking you will not pass the first grade.
  
  Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number [is] Six hundred threescore [and] six.
  
  but see here:
  
  The Number 666 according to Muslims
  
  it is possible that what looked like a number is actually a phrase in arabic.
  
  and it represents a man and his god
  
  it is 6 min long…see if you can listen
  
  Marianne said this on August 1, 2013 at 1:26 pm | Reply
Jim…Maybe this will help…
Revelations 13-17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. This verse says the mark OR the name OR the number…

Revelation 13-18..Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the NUMBER OF A MAN; and HIS NUMBER[is] Six hundred threescore [and] six.
This wisdom is found in the Scriptures, not in men’s interpretations….

Men were numbered by the number of offsprings they had…
Numbers 1-2,3..Take ye the SUM OF ALL THE CONGREGATION of the children of Israel, after their families, by the house of their fathers, with the NUMBER OF (THEIR) NAMES, every male by their polls (polls means head in Hebrew)..; From twenty years old and upward, all that are able to go forth to war in Israel: thou and Aaron SHALL NUMBER THEM BY THEIR ARMIES…
It appears the army of Israel were numbered in their heads with the number or name of their father…

It says 666 is the number of a man….The man numbered 666 is in Ezra 2-13..The children of Adonikam, six hundred sixty and six. Herein we have both the number and the name…
The name Adonikam means my lord has arisen….Adon/Adoni means Baal..
Islam’s mahdi is the baal god in flesh…He is the return of the beast/Mohammed…see Rev 17-8…He is the apollyon/Satan of rev 9 and rev. 20-2, 3, 7, 8….
The army of ISlam will say of their madhi MY LORD HAS ARISEN..

God’s wisdom must be taken in small does

e1313ruth said this on August 1, 2013 at 7:12 pm | Reply
- Revelation 13-18..Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the NUMBER OF A MAN; and HIS NUMBER[is] Six hundred threescore [and] six.
  The beast is not a man. As we know from the 4 beasts of Daniel, a beast is a kingdom. But this kingdom is led by a man whose number (the number of his name (title) is 666. But a counterfeit Jesus and fallen Christians are not kingdoms.
  Then you have two marks – the Koran and the name Allah, which sound like metaphors to me, right? You can’t put the Koran in your right hand unless you carry one permanently, and do you expect the followers to tattoo “Allah” on their foreheads?
  I’m just trying to picture the scenario, like in a movie and how it might unveil itself. Mohammed is resurrected (again, by who?) and then what? Does he become the antichrist and take over the world by force? Him and what army? Then he forces everyone on earth to carry a Koran in their right hand and tattoo “Allah” on their foreheads. And the non-muslim world will be powerless to stop him? Am I close?
  So if I understand you, we should all be waiting for Mohammed to appear in the flesh – verified to be risen from the dead somehow. And if Mohammed is the first beast (not a real kingdom) then who or what will the second, third and fourth beasts be? And what is rev 18 referring to? Doesn’t sound anything like Islam to me.
  And what is Babylon? And why do you believe that the Mahdi is a real person? You would have to believe the Koran is the true word of God if the Mahdi actually comes out of the well in Iran.
  You are mixing two different religions here. God doesn’t care what other religions believe. He only cares what His people believe, and how they live their live and worship Him. In the Old Testament, God never punished people for not being Jewish, he only punished the Jews for not being good Jews and for breaking his laws. Now he is angry at the Christians for the same reasons. They don’t follow the commandments and pray to statues and use pagan rituals and celebrate pagan holidays like Christmas and Easter. You think the seven last plagues will be for people who convert to Islam, but they are really for modern Christians who profane God’s laws and no longer keep his commandments.
  I think a lot of Christians will be quite surprised when the tribulation arrives and they are still waiting for a Muslim antichrist to take over the world and put a chip in everyone.
  But I will keep an eye out for Mohammed in case he ever does come back.
  Just like I keep an eye out for Nibiru.
  
  Jim Giordano said this on August 2, 2013 at 12:27 am | Reply
Jim, Consider Isaiah 14-13 through 16…Lucifer claims he WILL BE like God.. That does not mean santa claus or baal…It means the God of Abraham…It says he comes as a man in v. 16…. This would be a counterfeit of Jesus…

When lucifer said he would be like god he meant he god of abraham and he meant a messiah like jesus… Islam is his kingdom and the beast is head of this kingdom..
Revelation 16-10…And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his KINGDOM was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,

As for tribulation tell it to the dead Christians in muslim lands since Obama took over..PLus the thousands and thousands who have been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and the word of God..
Revelation 20-4…And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were BEHEADED for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
BEHEADING CHRISTIANS IS ISLAM’S FAVORITE SPORT. FOR 1400
YEARS…

The beast is a man ..he is indwelled by the dragon and his seven demons as shown in Matthew 12=43,44,45 and so is his congregation likewise indwelled by these enities.. The enire scenario is a counterfeit of God’s kingdom

Maybe you better reread rev. 13..

e1313ruth said this on August 2, 2013 at 2:16 am | Reply
- Rev 13 talks about two beasts. So who or what is the second beast? It is the second beast that institutes the mark, not the first. And the second beast exercises all the authority of the first beast which is to last 42 prophetic months (1260 actual years).
  So how do you expect all this to unfold?
  Or will you just know it when you see it?
  
  Jim Giordano said this on August 2, 2013 at 6:32 am | Reply
  - How do you expect it to unfold James? Or, do you believe it already happened?
    
    The beast out of the sea receives a head wound, and Satan gives him power to live. The second beast is the false prophet.
    
    The Dragon, the first beast, and the second make the unholy trinity. How it unfolds is on G-d time line, not ours.
    
    Leatherneck said this on August 2, 2013 at 10:58 am | Reply
  - Rev 13 is a direct continuation of the book of Daniel, and the first 3 “beasts” are fulfilled. Revelation speaks of 8 king(dom)s – the first four are from Daniel so we know who they are. But Daniel also hints how his fourth beast (and the statue) (the Roman empire) would break up into 10 kings (horns) plus a little horn (Vatican) would come up and control them and destroy three of them. This describes the Holy Roman Empire to a T. 10 countries, three plucked up leaving seven crowns to rule them. This is the first beast of Revelation, and both Daniel and John say the beast shall rule for 42 prophetic months or 1260 years, which it did. The story continues when the Holy Roman Empire is ended by the sword (of Napoleon). This is the (little) head that is wounded to death. Not the actual head of a person, but one of the 11 heads of the first beast (including the Vatican). Now look at the second beast – looks like a true church of Jesus (horns of a lamb) but it speaks (teaches false Christianity) like the devil. This is the woman (church) that rides the scarlet beast and is called “Mystery Babylon“, a false church from the time of Nimrod whose pagan practices are still embedded in the Catholic church today. Every verse in rev 13 fits these two kingdoms, and the Vatican is a real kingdom as it was give nation status in 1929.
    The 3rd beast (seventh king(dom) is a restored Roman empire – the EU. Soon the 8th king will arrive – the restored Holy Roman Empire consisting of the EU and the Vatican in league with one another. Then the deadly wound of Napoleon will be healed.
    The “image” or godhead of the Vatican (the pope) will be the False Prophet. The beast is the Vatican, which encompasses the Roman Catholic Church which is the woman (church) who rides the beast (Vatican) and both of which will be destroyed before Christ returns to marry the true church.
    The Muslims are not in this picture at all. The resurrected saints who are priests (teachers) during the millennium will take care of the Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus and all other religions that do not have the true gospel of Jesus Christ. God will teach them, not destroy them. He will only destroy false churches, not the ignorant members who do not have the true Holy Spirit in them. They too will be retaught. This is God’s plan. He has done it many times in the Old Testament, so why would he change course now? After all every other religion including Judaism teaches that Jesus is not the son of God. So he would have to kill most of the worlds population if your logic is correct. Just for spite. Doesn’t sound like a God of love to me.
    My interpretation is the simplest and most logical and fits the scriptures properly, and… it has actually happened. The problem I have with other interpretations presented here is that they are extremely unlikely to ever happen. It is a simple thing to come up with a theory in which everything in Revelation is yet to happen. In that case one can easily claim that events will unfold exactly as they have predicted. But whenever I pin them down to describe how actual events might come to pass, like how a Muslim empire will emerge and take over the entire planet and its banking system, all in a few years and that the entire planet will come to be ruled by a single dictator, the road to that scenario is always shrouded in a huge fog of uncertainty. I certainly can’t see how all of this could ever happen but somehow those people with these theories don’t care about that, they just “know” that it will happen some day.
    Sorry, but that’s just not good enough for me to believe. Of course I will recognize it if it ever does happen, but I won’t buy it until a whole lot of things in this world have made a bunch of major changes.
    And so I wait…
    
    Jim Giordano said this on August 2, 2013 at 9:21 pm | Reply
    - v2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as [the feet]
      of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and
      his seat, and great authority.”
      –
      –
      
      how does that sound like the catholic church?
      
      Marianne said this on August 2, 2013 at 9:42 pm | Reply
      - The verse describes the Holy Roman Empire, which is the former Roman empire now ruled by the Vatican. Its territories encompass all the conquered kingdoms that came before Rome, as described by Daniel with mythical beasts.
        This is proof that the beasts of Revelation are a continuation of the beasts of Daniel and that the 8 kings mentioned by John actually start with the lion (Babylon) and continue thru Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome, and then on to the four described by John.
        As far as religion goes, you believe that because some of these regions today are primarily Muslim, that Revelation is referring to a religion not to appear for another 500 years. But what it actually is referring to is the pagan religions that existed in these kingdoms when they were in power, because Mystery Babylon is one of them and it is these pagan practices that are still in many modern Christian churches to this day. There is almost nothing in the Koran that has infiltrated modern christianity. That is not the problem. The religion of ancient Babylon (the lion) which has filtered down thru the bear and the leopard that is the problem. We don’t like Islam, but God hates dirt in His own church. He will clean it up before He worries about other religions. That won’t even be His problem. WE will have to take Christianity to the rest of the world during the millennium, preaching the gospel to the four corners of the earth. It will be OUR job to erase Islam from the planet. And whatever we can’t do, God will deal with at the Great White Throne Judgement.
        The Book of Revelation is all about the Second Coming and the marriage of the true church. Do you really think Jesus will marry the Catholic church with all their graven images and Mary worship? Will he marry any church that insists on moving the Sabbath day to Sunday? These are commandment-breaking churches. Don’t you think He will have to clean up this mess before he deals with different false religions? I do. And I believe that this is the whole point of the Book of Revelation. It begins with a warning to the churches of John’s time. If God was displeased with most of them, how mad must He be at our modern abominations? This theme resonates throughout the book. You need to stay on topic as you read through it. Think inwardly, not outwardly. Look for blame in yourself and your own church, not others.
        Otherwise you will go thru the tribulation as blind as a bat and you will never understand what is happening around you.
        Stop looking for mythical planets, a Muslim world dictator or a chip in your right hand. These will never happen.
        Love God and keep His commandments. That alone will get you through anything. To die in Christ is to live forever, so we really have nothing to fear, except our own stupidity.
        Sermon over.
        Bless.
        
        Jim Giordano said this on August 2, 2013 at 10:26 pm | Reply
- e13
  Isaiah 14 talks about the king of Babel and not about satan.
  
  assertio septem sacramentorum said this on August 2, 2013 at 9:04 am | Reply
  - assertio
    
    Isaiah 14 is a double reference….king of babel was never in eden.
    
    Marianne said this on August 2, 2013 at 12:12 pm | Reply
    - Were does it say in Isaiah 14 he will be in eden? Have I missed something?
      
      Assertio Septem Sacramentorum said this on August 2, 2013 at 3:02 pm | Reply
      - I am sorry….it is ezechiel, not Isaiah
        
        Ezekiel 28:13-18
        “Thou has been in eden the garden of God; every precious stone was your covering the sardius, topaz, the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, the jasper, the sapphire the emerald and the carbuncle and gold; the workmanship of your tabrets and of your pipes was prepared in you in the day that you were created. You are the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set you so, you were upon the holy mountain of God; you have walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty, you have corrupted your wisdom by reason of your brightness: I will cast you to the ground, I will lay you before kings, that they may behold you. You have defiled your sanctuaries by the multitude of your iniquities, by the iniquity of your traffick; therefore I will bring forth a fire from the midst of you, it shall devour you and I will bring you to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all those who behold you.”
        
        Here the scriptures confirm that Lucifer was in the garden of Eden before Adam and his wife were created.
        
        I got it mixed up with isaiah
        
        Isaiah 14:12-17
        “How thou art fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning; how art thou cut down to the ground, who did weaken the nations. For you have said in your heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation in the sides of the North; I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.”
        Here the scriptures confirm Lucifer’s fall because of pride. And in rebellion, satan makes his plan to spite God. Note that satan cannot accomplish this without man – because man has redemption and free will. Satan does not. Angels do not have redemption.
        
        Marianne said this on August 2, 2013 at 5:41 pm | Reply
        
        Ezekiel 28:13-18 describes king of Tyros and not satan. satan has not been here with a body before but soon he will come here with a body.
        
        Isaiah 14:12-17 does not say lucifer. the hebrew Bible say O Heilel Ben Shachar which means morning star and translator has translated morning star to lucifer.
        they do not have the right to translate it to lucifer. this passage describes king of babel/babylon.
        
        that is how I understand the Bible.
        
        assertio septem sacramentorum said this on August 3, 2013 at 7:47 am | Reply
        
        stop and think…..was the king of Tyre so ancient in his age….thousands of years old…that he was actually alive in the garden of eden?
        
        Marianne said this on August 3, 2013 at 11:48 am | Reply
        
        king of tyre did not live at the same time as Adam but in the same place. It says G-d put gold and other expensive things on him. G-d does not even speak with satan so G-d would not put gold and stuff on satan so this passage is not about satan. satan showed himself as a snake in eden the first time not as a man.
        
        assertio septem sacramentorum said this on August 3, 2013 at 12:30 pm | Reply
        
        eden was closed off by angels once adam left….
        
        no one lived there after adam left, and that includes other men
        
        Marianne said this on August 3, 2013 at 1:06 pm | Reply
        
        Eden is between eufrat and the nile. No area is closed here. It is not written anywere in the Bible that eden is closed. Were do youw get that info from.
        
        Assertio Septem Sacramentorum said this on August 3, 2013 at 1:44 pm
        
        “Therefore the Lord God sent him out of the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he was taken.
        
        So He drove out the man; and He placed cherubim at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.” (Genesis 3:23, 24)
        
        Marianne said this on August 3, 2013 at 2:41 pm | Reply
        
        m
        I can not understand how you can say Eden is closed in future from theese verses. God places cherubim (angels) and fire from a sword to protect eden from Adam and Eve so they should not eat again from the forbidden tree. It was not closed forever and the king of Tyre lived there too according to Hesekiel.
        
        assertio septem sacramentorum said this on August 3, 2013 at 5:58 pm
        
        asssertio
        
        that is my point what you said. the king of tyre lived there but the king was satan
        
        Marianne said this on August 3, 2013 at 7:59 pm | Reply
- OK e,
  I did some checking on Isaiah 14 and here is part of what I’ve learned:
  
  Isaiah 14:12
  “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!”*
  To begin in the middle of a thought always does violence to the thought and causes one to miss the proper meaning. The thought here, of which this 12th verse is only a part, begins with the 4th verse of this chapter and continues through the 23rd verse. This puts the 12th verse down in the middle of the thought.
  
  Verse 4 says, “Thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say….”* This makes it clear that the remarks made here refer to the king of Babylon. The thoughts concerning the proverb against the king of Babylon are continuous from this 4th verse through the 23rd verse.
  
  The same can be said for Ezekiel 24 except it is referring to the King of Tyre instead of the king of Babylon. The verses show similarities to the fall of Lucifer as a lesson to the great men on earth not to follow the actions of Satan which will displease the Lord, but these verses do not refer directly to Satan nor are they prophetic for our times.
  Also, the king of Tyre was never in Eden. Ezekiel used a metaphor to compare his empire with the garden of Eden but he never said he was actually there.
  You can’t take theses verses out of context. You must keep them with the stated subject earlier in the chapter. So many people go astray when they try to do word-matching throughout the bible and assume that all or most of the similar verses are somehow related but they don’t take the time to discover exactly what the verses are referring to.
  This happens a lot with the word Babylon.
  
  James Giordano said this on August 4, 2013 at 9:51 am | Reply
  - james
    first of all you must mean Ezekiel 28 and not 24. You say king of tyre was not in garden of eden. It is written that he lived there and G-d anoited him and put him as a guard. So this is not satan since G-d will not anoit satan.
    
    assertio septem sacramentorum said this on August 4, 2013 at 11:19 am | Reply
  - james
    
    this is called a double reference. it refers both to the earthly king, who thinks he is god and has fallen from power, and to satan, who fell from power in heaven. there are some aspects that refer to both of them, but there are other verses that could only apply to satan himself.
    
    Marianne said this on August 4, 2013 at 11:43 am | Reply
God marked his people both o.t. And n.t…..So does Satan mark his..
Having the name, mark, or number of the beast means you belong to Satan/beast…

God’s kingdom consists of God the spiritual father,,,Jesus the messiah, and the Christian congregation…God indwells Jesus and the born again congregation…The beast is a counterfeit of God’s kingdom…Rev. 16-10,13,14…

Revelation 13…The dragon and his seven heads are Satan and his seven demons..see Matt. 12-43,44,45.. These are said to be the serpent in the garden of Eden in Revelation 12-9…..This is the counterfeit of God’s spirit…..These eight entities indwell the first beast who is a man…He is the antichrist and a counterfeit of Jesus…This is Mohammed…He died but returns during judgment for a short period of time…Upon his return he makes war with the saints and overcomes them…These saints he overcomes are the fallen Christians of Rev 12 that the dragon’s tail casts down to EARTH… These come up out of the earth in Rev 13-11…And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. …..These HAD (past tense) two horns like a lamb…meaning these were Christians… But they now speak as the dragon because the dragon indwells them…The image of the beast could mean these are now made in the image of the beast-counterfeit of born again….
Lucifer is the king of Babylon… The beast is the king of Babylon.. Rev.17-5,6,7…Babylon is the congregation of the beast/Satan’s kingdom….read the Bible.. Read the Bible….

.This entire scenario which was also Eve’ deception is spoken of in
2 Corinthians 11-3,4,14..
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
For if he (Mohammed) that cometh preacheth another Jesus,-(Issa) whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit (not holy ghost spirit), which ye have not received, or another gospel, (Koran) which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him].
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. This means he is a counterfeit of Jesus, he light…

This is just the tip of the iceberg

e1313ruth said this on August 2, 2013 at 7:09 pm | Reply
The following verses are being mangled, lied about and then taught as truth to the Christians..
Acts 2-19, 20…And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and va pour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

THESE ARE THE WONDERS IN HEAVEN…
Revelation 12-1..And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: ….The say this woman is Israel…They say that her appearance of sun, moon and star are proof that she is Israel… Their reasoning is Joseph’s dream when he said the sun, moon and stars would do obedience to him…They are completely wrong in their assumptions…

The woman in Revelation 12 represents Christians in heavenly places..
Ephs 2-6…And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:
She is the GREAT WONDER in Heaven of Acts 2-19, 20…

The other great wonder in heaven is Lucifer keeping his promise of Isaiah 14-13,14 that he would be like god, that he would ascend into the heavens..He is the dragon and his entities Rev 12–3…And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

The dragon’s tail (false teacher) casts one third of the stars (Christians) down to earth…These reappear in Rev 13-11.And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. .It shows these were Christians because they HAD-past tense two horns like a lamb… But are now indwelled by the dragon….These are the tares of the Broad way -Matt 7… They are called false prophets in sheep’s clothing but are ravening wolves come to eat the sheep with their lies….Their wolf spirit has graduated to being a dragon..entity…
These fallen ones are the same fallen ones of 2Thessalonians 2…These are the workers of iniquity of the broad way that has led them to destruction-Islam…As promised God removes the tares from his church…

And there is so much more it is mind boggling…

e1313ruth said this on August 2, 2013 at 7:51 pm | Reply
- e,
  I agree that the woman is not Israel, but the TRUE church. In prophecy a woman represents a church, either good or bad depending on what she wears. So the woman who rides the beast later on is the apostate church (Babylon) which God will destroy before Jesus returns.
  But stars in prophecy represent angels, and in this case they are the ⅓ of the original angels that followed Satan when he fell from grace.
  Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
  This clarifies the earlier verse:
  Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
  The stars of heaven can not be fallen Christians for several reasons.
  Fallen Christians do not, nor never have been to heaven. (Jesus said: “No man hath entered heaven.”) Plus the time frame is way off. Rev12 takes place at the birth of Jesus and the Christian church (woman). But rev13 occurs much later so the two are not related.
  Also, the tares are not Christians who turned or will turn Muslim. There are too few to constitute a mention in the bible. The tares are not people from other religions, they are in the same field (church/congregation) as the wheat. The tares will be removed leaving only the true church which Jesus will marry when He returns.
  You said it yourslef,,, “As promised God removes the tares from his church…“ Islam is NOT His church. He will not even bother with it. The Second Coming is about the marriage and the marriage requires a purification of all the Christian churches on earth. They must be stripped of all pagan practices (Babylon) before they can become the bride of Jesus.
  For example, if a man would say, “I love Christmas and I refuse to give it up.” or “I refuse to worship on Saturday —that is for the Jews.” then he will be considered a tare and will not be in the marriage.
  In a way you are right about Muslims being like tares, but technically they are not part of the field where the tares are located, but they too will not be at the wedding.
  Your problem is that you are not looking close enough to home, excluding your church and yourself automatically without even considering there might be a problem within. This is only human, but you have to remove yourself from all that and look at things from God’s perspective. Then the big picture becomes clear. It is hard. I had to leave my lifetime church with much pain, but if your cloths are on fire you must get out of them.
  Think hard on this and may God bless you in your thoughts.
  
  Jim Giordano said this on August 2, 2013 at 9:49 pm | Reply
Rev. 13-2…And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as [the feet] of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

The only place in the Bible that I know of that speaks of the lion, leopard and bear is Hosea 13-7,8.,9
Therefore I will be unto them as a LION: as a LEOPARD by the way will I observe [them]: I will meet them as a BEAR [that is] bereaved [of her whelps], and will rend the caul of their heart, and there will I devour them like a lion: the WILD BEASTS shall tear them….This means people will think the beast is the God of Abraham…He also shows that God has let the enemies of his people attack them..

Revelation 12 Stars in the woman’s crown

Daniel 8-12..And it waxed great, [even] to the host of heaven; and it cast down [some] of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
Daniel 12-3..And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.THESE ARE CHRISTIANS AND THESE ARE STARS OFHEAVEN…

As for the heavens….We are gathered into the body of Christ in the heavenly realm…Ephs. 2-6..And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:…

As for going to hell for not observing Saturday as the Sabbath, that punishment is derived from Moses book of curses…The book of curses (curses spelled alah) was the cutting off hands, feet, kill adulterers, etc that accompanied the ten commandments.. Jesus nailed these laws of Moses to the cross and we are free from these punishments.. READ THE BIBLE, READ THE BIBLE, READ THE BIBLE..Muslims still go by the laws of Moses..They lead to death, not life….
God expects us to obey his ten commandments but if we fail we are forgiven…if we repent..

As for the eight kings of Revelation 17-10, 11…
And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, [and] the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
THESE KINGS ARE THE KINGS OF THE BABYLONIAN RELIGION… The first king was Cain, the second king was nimrod… I am not sure who the the third through sixth kings were…The seventh king was Mohammed ..He continued a short space and he returns as the eighth king….
V. 11..And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the EIGHTH AND IS OF THE SEVEN, and goeth into perdition..
.The eighth king is the antichrist we will deal with…

V.9..And here [is] the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. .The mind that has wisdom means the wisdom the Adams partook of..It was the ancient astrology lore and this is provable by scriptures… The seven hills are the seven HIGH PLACES where Baal and his gang of demons are worshipped…

I am not catholic nor could I ever be…But the catholic church has kept the name of Jesus on this earth for 2000 years.. They have preached the word, fed the poor, given their lives for the word and I am sick to death of people badmouthing them… They have no connection to THE ANCIENT ROME Ancient Rome worshipped the astrology gods…

The only thing I can not understand is how God could judge people who are so much in the dark…And I very much do mean the Christians who have access to the holy ghost teacher but prefer their own opinions and other men’s opinions, ..

e1313ruth said this on August 3, 2013 at 12:47 am | Reply
You claim: The only place in the Bible that I know of that speaks of the lion, leopard and bear is Hosea 13-7,8.,9.
It sounds like you haven’t read about the four beasts described by Daniel, and it is Daniel’s prophecy that the Book of Revelation is based on and a continuation of, not Hosea.
As for the kings of Babylon, here is the list:

Ruler Reigned Comments
Nabu-mukin-zeri 732 – 729 BC
Tiglath-Pileser III 729 – 727 BC Assyrian king
Shalmaneser V 727 – 722 BC Assyrian king
Marduk-apla-iddina II 722 – 710 BC A Chaldean king, (the Biblical Merodach-Baladan)
Sharrukin II (Sargon II) 710 – 705 BC Assyrian king
Sin-ahhe-eriba (Sennacherib) 705 – 703 BC Assyrian king
Marduk-zakir-shumi II 703 BC Assyrian vassal
Marduk-apla-iddina II 703 BC Chaldean ruler retook Babylon from Assyria during uprising
Bel-ibni 703 – 700 BC Assyrian vassal
Ashur-nadin-shumi 700 – 694 BC Assyrian king, son of Sennacherib
Nergal-ushezib 694 – 693 BC Elamite ruler, murdered Ashur-nadin-shumi
Mushezib-Marduk 693 – 689 BC Elamite ruler
Assyrian Sack of Babylon by Sennacherib , 689 BC; Babylon is rebuilt by Esarhaddon of Assyria in the 670s BC

Sin-ahhe-eriba (Sennacherib) 689 – 681 BC Assyrian king, destroyed Babylon
Ashur-ahha-iddina (Esarhaddon) 681 – 669 BC Assyrian king, rebuilt Babylon
Shamash-shum-ukin 668 – 648 BC Assyrian king, son of Esarhaddon, rebelled against his brother, Ashurbanipal and was killed.
Kandalanu 648 – 627 BC Assyrian governor under Ashurbanipal, rumoured to have been Ashurbanipal himself, also governor under Ashur-etil-ilani of Assyria between 631 BC and 627 BC
Sin-shumu-lishir 626 BC Assyrian king, Ruled Babylon, but lost control over regions in Babylonia.
Sinsharishkun ca. 626 – 620 BC Assyrian king. Lost control over Babylonia in 620 BC.
Dynasty XI of Babylon (Neo-Babylonian or Chaldean Dynasty)[edit source | editbeta]
Further information: Neo-Babylonian Empire

King Nebuchadnezzar II of Babylon (r. 605–562 BC)
Ruler Reigned Comments
Nabu-apla-usur (Nabopolassar) 626 – 605 BC Chaldean king. Took control of Babylonia from Sinsharishkun of Assyria, ejected Assyrian armies from Babylonia in 616 BC. Entered into alliance with Cyaxares and destroyed Assyrian empire.
Nabu-kudurri-usur (Nebuchadnezzar II) 604 – 562 BC Chaldean king. Defeated the Egyptians and Assyrians at Carchemish. Is associated with Daniel in the Bible.
Amel-Marduk 562 – 560 BC
Nergal-shar-usur (Nergal-sharezer/Neriglissar) 560 – 556 BC
Labashi-Marduk 556 BC
Nabu-na’id (Nabonidus) 556 – 539 BC Last Mesopotamian king of Babylon, originated in Harran in Assyria. Was not a Chaldean, often left rule to his son Belshazzar.
Cyrus II of Persia 539 – 529 BC
Achaemenid Babylonia[edit source | editbeta]

Further information: Persian Mesopotamia and Achaemenid Empire
In 539 BC, Babylon was captured by Cyrus the Great. His son was later crowned formally as King of Babylonia. This list uses the Greek names of the achaemenid Persian kings.
Ruler Reigned Comments
Cambyses II 529 – 522 BC son of Cyrus the Great
Smerdis 522 BC son of Cyrus the Great (possible an usurper named Gaumata)
Reigned only for seven months
Darius I the Great 521 – 486 BC son-in-law of Cyrus the Great and son of Hystaspes
Xerxes I the Great 485 – 465 BC son of Darius the Great and grandson of Cyrus the Great.
Maybe the Ahasuerus mentioned in the Book of Esther.
Artaxerxes I Longimanus 465 – 424 BC son of Xerxes the Great.
Mentioned in the book of Ezra and the book of Nehemiah.
Xerxes II 424 BC son of Artaxerxes Longimanus, reigned only for forty-five days.
Sogdianus 424 – 423 BC illegitimate half-brother and rival of Xerxes II
Darius II Nothus 423 – 405 BC illegitimate half-brother and rival of Xerxes II
Artaxerxes II Mnemon 404 – 359 BC son of Darius Nothus, mentioned by Xenophon
Artaxerxes III Ochus 358 – 338 BC son of Artaxerxes Mnenon
Artaxerxes IV Arses 338 – 336 BC son of Artaxerxes Ochus
Darius III Codomannus 336 – 330 BC great-grandson of Darius Nothus
Seleucid Babylonia[edit source | editbeta]

Further information: Seleucid Empire
Babylon was captured by Alexander III of Macedon in 330 BC. It was captured by the Parthians in 141 BC.
Ruler Reigned Comments
Alexander III the Great 330 – 323 BC
Alexander IV 323 – 309 BC
Seleucus I Nicator Satrap 311 – 305 BC, King 305 – 281 BC
Antiochus I Soter co-ruler from 291, ruled 281 – 261 BC
Antiochus II Theos 261 – 246 BC
Seleucus II Callinicus 246 – 225 BC
Seleucus III Ceraunus (or Soter) 225 – 223 BC
Antiochus III the Great 223 – 187 BC
Seleucus IV Philopator 187 – 175 BC
Antiochus IV Epiphanes 175 – 164 BC
Antiochus V Eupator 164 – 162 BC
Demetrius I Soter 161 – 150 BC
Alexander III Balas 150 – 145 BC
Demetrius II Nicator first reign, 145 – 141 BC
Antiochus VI Dionysus jointly with Demetrius II, 145 – 142 BC

So the last of the 166 kings of Babylon ruled 225 years before John wrote the Book of Revelation. There was no king of Babylon during John‘s lifetime or after. There is no way he could be referring to kings of Babylon. Plus, John is in the middle of a future prophetic vision. He has mentioned the first four kingdoms from Daniel and the first beast of Revelation, all of which were fallen at the time of (and IN) the vision. He is not using his “present” timeline, he is referring to the prophetic timeline that he is in the middle of describing. In other words, he is not a part of the prophecy nor are any kings of his lifetime.
Most people don’t get this at all and I’m sure you won’t get it either, but once I figured it out, it made everything fall into place.
But good luck with that king of Babylon idea. By the way, Mohammed was never a king and Babylon was in ruins by the time he was born. Calling him the “king of Babylon” is meaningless. Add to that he will never be resurrected, not by God and certainly not by Satan, God will not resurrect anyone until the Second Coming, and only the righteous will among those people. The whole idea of Mohammed being raised from the dead is just ridiculous and a bit creepy.
As for people thinking the beast (which one?) is the God of Abraham, I don’t see it. Yahweh the father can not even be seen by man without dying. This was told to Moses himself, so this will never happen, not to Christians. And Muslims would never believe that Allah would come to earth to rule men. He is far too busy in hell placing coats of burning tar on the wicked to ever waste his time on earth. Anyone claiming to be so would be beheaded or blown up by the nearest faithful Muslim. The things you claim will happen are just too far fetched to ever happen.
I can’t change history to clear the Catholic church of their sins.
The romans worshipped their sun god on SUNday, named for him. They forced the Christians to change their day of worship from Saturday to Sunday and they forced them to celebrate Saturnalia and Ishtar which the church turned into bogus Christian holidays of Christmas and Easter.
In case you don’t think God cares about Christmas, just listen to prophet Jeremiah:
Jer 10:1 Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel:
Jer 10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
Jer 10:3 For the customs of the people [are] vain: for [one] cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
Jer 10:4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
God is not happy with the traditions of Christian churches. He cares about people keeping His commandments. He will not take any crap from any church that has changes His laws with pagan traditions.
You think you have a free pass thru the tribulation just because you will never turn Muslim or take a chip in your forehead, but that will not be good enough.
When the two witnesses start preaching in Jerusalem, pay close attention to what they say. They are the path to your redemption.If they tell you to stop Sunday worship and to forget Christmas completely, take their words seriously. Many will mock them and say the commandments were nailed to the cross, and God doesn’t care what day we keep holy and Christmas is benign as long as we keep it all about Jesus.
Sorry but that attitude will earn many the seven last plagues. They will be completely befuddled and will curse God for punishing them for no good reason. That is prophesy. It will happen to most of the Christian world – the whole world will follow the beast.
But put it all on Islam if you must. It will certainly make you feel better, and safer. Just keep your mind open when the time comes. Otherwise the outcome may not be anything like you expect.
Bless.

Jim Giordano said this on August 3, 2013 at 3:05 am | Reply
- according to revelation, the beast was, but “is not” at the time of John…
  
  .this would exclude Rome, which was active “is” at the time of John…
  
  babylon “was” and “is not” at the time of john, but will be also. so it qualifies.
  
  Marianne said this on August 3, 2013 at 5:20 am | Reply
  - Most people assume that, but John is in the middle of a prophecy dream and is still in the future when he speaks these words. Why would he speak about being in the future (seeing future events) then jump all the way back to his present time, then jump back right away to the far future again?
    Anyway, as I said, it took me a while to realize this, and most people make the same assumption you do. But John is in the wilderness – in the spirit – at this time looking at future events and speaking from some future time.
    It even sounds like he moves forward in time while describing the beast the woman rides. He starts with:
    Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition:
    At this point the beast the woman rides is not present yet.
    Then he says in the same verse: they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. SO now the scarlet beast IS present. This vision is fluid and he is moving in time.
    Next: Rev 17:9 And here [is] the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
    So he is still talking about the woman – a future apostate church that will go to perdition. He is still in the future somewhere.
    Then: Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, [and] the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. (So now John is seeing the 6th kingdom)
    So now he says there are 7 kingdoms, 5 are gone, the sixth is now present (again, in the future of the vision) and a short-lived 7th kingdom will come later.
    Next: Rev 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
    So, the beast that was, and is not, comes again as part of an eighth kingdom which comes out of the seventh and John sees it go to its doom.
    So how do I put these pieces together?
    The 5th kingdom is the first beast of Revelation, the Holy Roman Empire which followed the 4th beast of Daniel, Rome.
    The 6th kingdom is the Vatican, which ran the Holy Roman Empire and became a nation in 1929.
    The 7th kingdom is the revived Roman empire or the European Union, forged in 2010. (the short-lived kingdom (compared with the first 5)).
    The 8th kingdom is a restored Holy Roman Empire, led by the Vatican, the 6th kingdom and the scarlet (think cardinals) beast that the woman (Catholic church) rides upon. The woman represents all apostate churches including most protestant churches to some degree. These are the daughters of the whore – mystery Babylon.
    The prophecy is easy to follow when you understand the timeline. Jumping back into the past in the middle of a vision just throws the whole thing into chaos. And the matter gets worse when you try to use actual kings or emperors at the time the Book of Revelation was written. None of them ever make much sense, especially with a 2000 year gap between them.
    But that doesn’t keep them from trying…
    
    James Giordano said this on August 3, 2013 at 6:28 pm | Reply
Assertio… God placed cheribims to stop man from eating of the tree of life and living in their now wretched image of satan forever..
Genesis 3-22,23,24..And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken
So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

e1313ruth said this on August 3, 2013 at 6:52 pm | Reply
- e13
  you say this is forever. were do you find this info that this is forever. you have no right to add info to the Bible.
  m
  God put gold and other nice stuff on the king of tyre so he is not satan because God will not put gold on satan.
  
  assertio septem sacramentorum said this on August 4, 2013 at 7:36 am | Reply
Cain’s way…
Jude1-11.. Woe unto them! For they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core….
Jude shows us what Cain’s religion was when he compared Cain’s way to Baalam’s and Core’s error..
Baalam and Core’s error was seducing the Jews with the astrology lore…
God himself showed us the door Cain was entering to find him when he said to Cain..”SIN lieth at the door”… SIN was the ancient astrology moon god and he professed to be the door to god and the heavens…Archeology finds confirm this

The Babylonian astrology lore was original sin or at the least part of it…The entire world worshipped the astrology gods until God called Abraham out if it….All religions today stem to the ancient astrology lore except Christianity and Judaism…Islam most definitely has many doctrines that stem to astrology like their seven heavens and seven hells.. And much more.

The Babylon whore of Revelation 17 has always been in existence…. The kings of Rev 17 are the kings of this Babylonian religion…As I said before I am pretty sure Cain was the first king…Nimrod was the second..He reestablished his Babylonian religion after the flood..Mohammed was the seventh king who continues a short while, and then returns after 1000 years to deceive the people again…
Mohammed was Satan in the flesh he knew hidden things and he even wrote of his return after 1000 years..
KORAN
[20.102] On the day when the trumpet shall be blown, and We will gather the guilty, blue-eyed, on that day
[20.103] They shall consult together secretly: You did tarry but ten (centuries).
[20.104] We know best what they say, when the fairest of them in course would say: You tarried but a day.

They will say Mohammed tarried one day…A day is as a thousand years…
They will say Mohammed tarried about ten centuries
The beast of Rev 13 is locked up in the pit for about 10 centuries and then he is loosed to deceive the world again…revelation 20-8..

Jesus is king and we are his bride…
Satan and his seven demons are the kings of the Babylonian religion and Babylon is his bride….
It both cases it means Christians are indwelled by their king Jesus..He is their husband and The kings of Babylon, Satan and his seven cohorts are the kings i.e. Husbands of the Babylon whore..+And it began in eden…
Satan/Lucifer said he would be like God..this is just one phase of it…

e1313ruth said this on August 3, 2013 at 7:35 pm | Reply
- e,
  You are trading religion for real estate. Baal worship comes from the Mystery Babylon religion begun by the wife of Nimrod after his death. It is the origin of many current traditions; Christmas, lent, Easter, yule logs Christmas trees, Easter ham and hot cross buns, Easter egg painting and more all stem from this false-messiah religion. As you say, many modern religions have some of these traditions, especially Christianity. Now God doesn’t care about the other religions. He is only concerned with His own people and how they have gone astray. When Revelation mentions Babylon you think of where the ruins are today and the religion of most of the people who live near there. But the bible is referring to the religion of ancient Babylon and those pieces of it that are still being practiced by modern Christians.
  Satan is indeed behind these practices. When he couldn’t destroy God or hid son he decided to attack His church and to destroy it from the inside. He has succeeded beautifully and in such a way that most Chrstians are convinced they are doing God’s work perfectly and never question their traditions. But they are in for a big surprise. While they are waiting for God to destroy Islam they will be completely surprised when they realize THEY are the target of God’s wrath.
  And if the Koran was right, Mohammed would have come back over 400 years ago. But the Koran is not a prophetic book. It is wrong and so your theory is wrong. In fact anything the Koran says, I would believe the opposite, just to be safe.
  Putting our faith in other religions is not something God wants us to do.
  
  James Giordano said this on August 3, 2013 at 11:57 pm | Reply
THESE VERSES WERE COPIED AND PASTED FROM THE KING JAMES BIBLE….
I changed noting but it appears that is what you are doing…

Genesis 3-22,23,24..And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken
So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life. assertio

e1313ruth said this on August 4, 2013 at 12:10 pm | Reply
As for the prince of Tyrus.. the key here is he sits in the midst of the seas…He is the entities that indwell the beast…He is the dragon and his seven heads(demons)..He is satan in flesh…He declares himself god through the mouth of the beast he indwells….Like mohammed declared allah is the god of Abraham..

Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart [is] lifted up, and thou hast said, I [am] a God, I sit [in] the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou [art] a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:

He most definately was the serpent in Genesis.. Rev 12-9 says it…And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his
angels were cast out with him.

Paul also spoke of the one who brings a deception as Eve’s.. in 2 Corinthinas 11- 3,4,14..
Satan comes as an angel of light-means messiah like Jesus..He brings another gosepl-koran that teaches another Jesus-
Issa, and another spirit-allah..

e1313ruth said this on August 4, 2013 at 12:36 pm | Reply
Just because the scriptures compares the king of Tyrus to Lucifer, it doesn’t mean that he WAS Satan. And it was not an end-time prophecy, only a bible story. You are making invalid assumptions here and tying things together that are not actually related.
And when you think about it, at the time of Tyrus, Satan had not yet been cast down to earth to take over the king and impersonate him. And there is no relationship between the king of Tyrus and Mohammed. Maybe you should claim that the king of Tyrus will be resurrected instead.
Also you need to prove that the 7 heads or demons, since elsewhere is says the heads are crowns or kings/leaders. You are making up your own definition for prophetic terms and if that is permitted you can turn bible prophecy into any kind of crazy story you want to.
And there is too much of that already going on.

James Giordano said this on August 5, 2013 at 8:56 am | Reply
Snowden leak…..killshot due soon

http://beforeitsnews.com/blogging-citizen-journalism/2013/08/snowden-cataclysmic-event-imminent-2448638.html

Marianne said this on August 19, 2013 at 7:53 am | Reply
- Solar eruptions will be common for the next couple of years, but there is no way to predict when they will occur or how large they will be. It would be like predicting a specific tornado or hurricane months in advance. It can’t be done, at least for now.
  Therefore this whole video is just a bogus scare tactic to generate fear and to keep listeners watching the site, or show or radio broadcasts.
  So if you like being a sucker (there’s one born every minute) then go ahead and buy into this crap.
  These are the same guys that were warning the world would end with the Mayan calendar, and that comet Elenin would destroy the earth and don’t get me started with Nibiru.
  Otherwise, just prepare to die!
  🙂
  
  James Giordano said this on August 19, 2013 at 11:13 am | Reply
  - I heard the Mayan calendar was a year off in its interpretation….so we still have to wait through this year
    
    Marianne said this on September 4, 2013 at 12:34 pm | Reply
    - Yeah, and in a few months you’re gonna hear that the Mayan calendar was off by 2 years, then three, four and so on for as long as these idiots can draw it out.
      There’s a sucker born every minute and these guys know it.
      
      James Giordano said this on September 5, 2013 at 5:09 am | Reply
      - the government thinks it is a big deal….so I will see what happens..if they are right……they think something is imminent.
        
        sooner or later, bible prophecy will come true, and people will have to deal with it
        
        Marianne said this on September 5, 2013 at 6:38 am | Reply
        
        They never said an event was imminent, only inevitable, eventually. Just like we Californians have been told for the last 50 years – that the Big One is coming soon. And it IS of course and we will have to deal with it. Bible or no bible, these are scientific events, not the wrath of God. And if they happen, no one will think they were acts of God.
        When the real prophecy goes down, there will be little doubt that God is in charge.
        That’s what I’m waiting for.
        
        James Giordano said this on September 5, 2013 at 9:31 am | Reply
        
        you did not listen….she said in the first 20 seconds that it could happen “imminently”
        
        God uses nature as part of his wrath. you seem to forget noah’s flood and the pestilence and famines he used to punish sin in the bible
        
        Marianne said this on September 5, 2013 at 12:21 pm | Reply
  - Hi James,
    
    The correct interpretation of the 2012 date of the Mayan calender was it was the return of the nine. Known as their gods.
    
    I do not know what you think of UFO’s, but so many thousands of reports, and reports of abductions can’t all be from crazy people. Even Enoch reads about the Watchers that had offspring with human women called the Nephilim.
    
    Leatherneck said this on September 5, 2013 at 1:22 am | Reply
    - I do believe that UFO sightings may very well be the work of Satan in some form or other.
      I disregard everything about the Mayans. I don’t believe in their gods or that they knew of the Nephilium and incorporated Old Testament theology into their own religion.
      They also knew nothing about astronomy. They only accurately tracked star movements and recorded them for their future generations, but to them, the earth was flat and the sun, moon and stars moved around the earth. They knew nothing about the earths orbit, its inclination to the sun, the precession of the equinoxes or the Milky Way galaxy. Nothing they knew or predicted is worth a plugged nickel to modern man. Trying to tie pagan myths is an exercise in futility and I believe we are doing a disservice to God when we try to say that there are pagan peoples with their own “gods” who also predicted everything that God of the bible did.
      You are trying to give credit where none is due.
      
      James Giordano said this on September 5, 2013 at 5:06 am | Reply
      - No, I am not trying to give credit. I am trying to write the true truth about their 2012 date. Which I did. Also, I believe pagan religions are from Lucifer.
        
        Lucifer, in my opinion, would know the Jewish writings before the Bible was written, and mislead people. It would also give ancient peoples who might think Old Knob was a god knowledge only the Angels would know.
        
        I think we are right at the door of how it was in Noah’s time.
        
        Leatherneck said this on September 5, 2013 at 5:50 pm | Reply
        
        Either way, the date is bogus. If it was created by Satan, then we certainly should disregard it.
        S’all I’ve been saying…
        
        James Giordano said this on September 6, 2013 at 4:42 am | Reply
James did satan say ; “you will be as wise as God in understanding good and evil.”…Are you that wise?????

e1313ruth said this on September 3, 2013 at 2:23 pm | Reply
- I don’t understand the question… I am intelligent when it comes to astronomy because I have been studying it since I was six. That is what I have been discussing on this blog, not the wisdom of the Almighty. If the signs in the sun and moon are to be astronomical in nature and not virtuous, then I can make a wise comment in that regard. Wiser than most here who have no background whatsoever in astronomy or astrophysics.
  S’all I’m sayin here…
  
  James Giordano said this on September 4, 2013 at 6:36 am | Reply
It is funny to see so many people worried about what day the Lord will come. Are you trying to time your sins just right? We should always be prepared for the Lord no matter what the sun and moon are doing.

Is it a sin said this on October 5, 2013 at 11:32 pm | Reply
- dear is it
  
  most people are not trying to time their repentance or sins just right.
  
  most are in sin and not thinking at all about anything else.
  
  so they DO need a wake up call…..sometimes it takes something dramatic to get people to think about their relationship or lack of one with God.
  
  and this kind of post is to make people realize what the bible says, and when they see it come true, they know they are out of time.
  
  so hopefully, they will think and repent, and stop the sin.
  
  Marianne said this on October 5, 2013 at 11:52 pm | Reply
nice sharing information on the signs of the sun and moon

Psalm 23 King James said this on October 7, 2013 at 3:37 pm | Reply
wow

Linda Murray said this on January 22, 2014 at 5:08 pm | Reply
Unfortunately Revelation was not written by “John” who was beheaded at least 6 months before the other guy in the NT. Most likely, it was written by Daniel or other Jewish prophet, not for Christianity but about Christianity. The first land beast King Saul who persecuted the Jews and who’s body was impaled after he “suffered a mortal wound yet lived” only to have his sword bearer kill him. The 2nd land beast being the lead personality of the NT. The mark, the cross, given on the right hand or forehead, who’s name times 9 = 666. J=90+E=45+S=171+U=189+S=171 =666. The only name that works for this equation. The promises of God were always about reuniting the tribes of Ishrael. The Vatican who sits on 7 hills went to the Un in November 1948 to divide Irushalem, which also starts Revelation’s “for one hour the beast will rule as kings of the earth”. Then there was “about half an hour of silence in heaven”. This equaling 1 and a half hours of time in heaven at the rate of 1000 earth years to 24 heavenly hours. John Kerry is currently spearheading the nations assault upon the holy land in which they will pay for with their lives. The Anointed is recorded coming and going in the OT, 500 years before the guy of the NT.

noidols said this on February 6, 2014 at 2:45 am | Reply
- noidols,
  It seems that you’ve got your bible facts mixed up.
  The Book of Revelation was written by the apostle John in 95 A.D.
  The John you are thinking of was John the baptist who was beheaded during the ministry of Jesus.
  It could not have been written by an Old Testament prophet as is says it is the testimony of Jesus Christ, who was not known by name in Daniel’s time.
  And beasts are always kingdoms, not men, so Saul and Jesus can not be beasts. And where did you read that the number of the beast has to be multiplied by 9 to get 666?
  Also Mohammed cannot be a beast and Islam is a religion, not a kingdom.
  The Vatican is actually the second beast. It is based in Rome, the true city of seven hills. And it contains many elements of Baal worship which is the true counterfeit of Christianity, and is referred first in the Book of Revelation as “Mystery Babylon” thenafter as just Babylon, which many people think refers to the city of Babylon and not the religion of Baal.
  So Baal worship IS what will be destroyed before the Second Coming, but it is those Baal practices and holidays (Sunday worship, Christmas and Easter etc) within modern Christianity that will be destroyed, not Islam.
  Islam is not even close to Mystery Babylon so it does not fit the model. It IS a false religion, but God will not destroy it any more than he would destroy Buddhism or Hinduism or any other religion.
  He will however clean up His own church before its marriage to Christ. There is a lot of cleanup to do, too. Over 99% of modern churches still have at least traces of Mystery Babylon in them. And just as He punished the ancient Jews for their transgressions, He will soon punish Christians in similar fashion.
  The Book of Revelation is our warning. We must take heed.
  If we believe the book was written to warn Islam, we are in for a big surprise.
  
  James Giordano said this on February 6, 2014 at 8:21 am | Reply
No idols John the baptist was beheaded,,… John, the one who wrote revelations wqs not beheaded…
The beast was not Saul…He was in fact mohammed the devil’s counterfeit version of Jesus, including his return after his death…The second earth beast are the fallen Christians who convert to Islam and Hebrew rots cults…
The mark of the beast is said to be the mark of Adonikam.. in Ezra 2-13… His name means my lord has arisen.. be it Baal or allah… It is most definately not about Jesus…
The city on seven hills is not the vatican..It is Babylon as Revelation 17 says…The seven hills are the high hills of the baal worship…

Revelation 16-10 shows that the beast group is in reality the kingdom of satan..It is a complete counterfeit of God’s kingdom..

You do not understand anything in the Bible….

e1313ruth said this on February 6, 2014 at 6:12 am | Reply
James, where did you get your infrmation…It is not from the scritpures…
For instance, you said the catholic church is Babylon…Yet the Scriptures
say babylon is responsible for all deaths..Rev 18-24…And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Did the .C.C. kill Abel, the prophets and the saints??????

Babylon is satan’s bride or congregation and has always been back to Cain and to the tower of Babel..

The beast is not nations….It is a man that satan and his seven demons indwell..
Rev 13-18…Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. number of a man,,, number of a man..

e1313ruth said this on February 6, 2014 at 6:14 pm | Reply
- Haven‘t you heard of the inquisition where the church burned or beheaded over 100 million Christians (saints) for clinging or the true Sabbath and not accepting false church doctrine and bogus holidays?
  That was Babylon – part of the Mystery Babylon religion written across the forehead of the whore – the great false church run by the second beast – the Vatican, which sits in the 7 hills of Rome. But you’re right that the Mystery Babylon religion goes back to ancient Babylon but it isn’t Islam by any means.
  And while the Catholic church didn’t kill any of the Old Testament prophets, neither did Mohammed, in fact nobody did. So the verse only refers to New Testament prophets, who are pretty much anonymous or forgotten.
  The 666 is the number of the pope, the image of the Vatican beast. His title in latin, Vicarius Filii Dei, adds up to 666 in Roman numerals. As does 7 other similar titles in several other languages. The mark of the beast is the number of a man. The beast is not the man however. That is an invalid assumption.
  Check the four beasts of Daniel and see if any of them were men. The four in Revelation are a continuation of the 4 from Daniel, and they are also kingdoms. In this case, as always, the bible interprets itself.
  
  James Giordano said this on February 6, 2014 at 11:24 pm | Reply
Some Christians become part of the Babylon congregation of Satan, hence the verses in Rev 18-23…about the light of a candle and the voice of the bride and bridegroom….These fallen Christians are the earth beast of Rev 13-11 that HAD (past tense)- two horns like a Christian lamb but are now indwelled by the dragon and speak like the dragon….

Jesus said Rev. 2-13…I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan’s SEAT is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith,
Rev 13-2..And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his SEAT, and great authority.
Rev 16-10…And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the SEAT of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
The word SEAT is used interchangeable with the word THRONE….
The SEAT OF THE BEAST IS LUCIFER’S THRONE….Isaiah 14-12 through 16… Lucifer said he will be like God, specifically the God of Abraham…It also says he comes as a MAN…. A complete counterfeit of Messiah Jesus… This man is Mohammed..
The kingdom of the beast of Rev 13 is a counterfeit of god’s kingdom,,
And there is much much more…

e1313ruth said this on February 6, 2014 at 6:37 pm | Reply
- Well, you kinda proved my point when you mentioned “the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion” since these refer to the four beasts of Daniel which he himself states that the beasts he saw were KINGDOMS.
  As for the counterfeit of Jesus, that was Tammuz, or Baal, from the Mystery Babylon religion, not Islam.
  Mohammed never claimed to be the Christ and in fact he denies that Jesus was the Son of God, and he never claims to be the messiah or a false Christ of any kind.
  Think about it, which seems more like Christianity – Islam or Catholicism? Catholicism is actually Christianity, but it is apostate due to 2000 years of false doctrines infiltrating the church. Islam is a completely different religion. It does not resemble Christianity in the least. But I’m sure Satan is very pleased that so many people have been fooled into believing that as long as they do not become Muslim, they are safe from the wrath of God during the tribulation.
  And that’s a shame.
  
  James Giordano said this on February 7, 2014 at 12:56 am | Reply
  - Hosea 13-7, 8..Therefore I will be unto them as a LION: as a LEOPARD by the way will I observe them: I will meet them as a BEAR that is bereaved of her whelps, and will rend the caul of their heart, and there will I devour them like a LION: the wild BEAST shall tear them.
    As I see it the people will think the lion, leopard and bear of the beast of Rev. 13 will be believed to be GOD HIMSELF..and these entities will destroy them..
    
    e1313ruth said this on February 7, 2014 at 7:44 pm | Reply
Mar. 2-27, 28….And he said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath:..V. 28..Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath.
Col 2-16, 17…Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ…..Should we crucify Jesus again for not keeping Sabbath????

As for the inquisition your estimate is way off .. There were not that many killed ..not even close…

The Catholic church was not in existence when Abel and the prophets were killed but the Babylonian religion was

Jeremiah 51-37..And Babylon shall become heaps, a dwellingplace for dragons, an astonishment, and an hissing, without an inhabitant. V.38..They shall roar together like lions: they shall yell as lions’ whelps. ..The dragon and his seven cohorts indwell their bride Babylon congregation..

Jeremiah 51-49..As Babylon hath caused the slain of Israel to fall, so at Babylon shall fall the slain of all the earth. …

Jesus said Jerusalem killed the prophets and the pharisees were the children of these killers… The pharisees of John 8, Matthew 23, are not real Jews nor are they of the chosen blood line of Abraham.. John 8 shows These fake Jews were forced converts from Idumea.. A warrior named John Hycanus forced these to convert to Judaism..These also worshipped Satan as the God of Abraham.. About like Muslims also do…These worshipped the baal gods prior and continued to do so…They say baal was the God of Abraham about like Muslims also do..

The Bible speaks of two evil groups, one is the beast and the other is the fowls of the air.. These are Muslim and Hebrew rots groups… Before you answer look up beast and fowl.
.
Job 11-6..And that he would shew thee the secrets of wisdom, that they are double to that which is!
Job 12-7..But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee:
Job said the secrets of God are double to what is… And then Job tells us the beast and fowl will
Show us…
The evil doctrines of the beast Islam and the fowl Hebrew roots is causing us to understand…

God as promised is revealing all the secrets in the bible….

Will the seventh Day slow learners kill Jesus when He returns for not obeying their Sabbath laws???

e1313ruth said this on February 7, 2014 at 1:09 am | Reply
- Islam may be the fourth horse of the Apocalypse as it is cutting the heads off Christians in the old Caliphate, but I do not believe Muhammad was the false messiah. We should see the false messiah soon.
  
  2 Thessalonians 2. Revelations 12-18.
  
  Leatherneck said this on February 7, 2014 at 9:31 am | Reply
Satan counterfeits God… He comes as a messiah, with a gospel that teaches a Jesus and a spirit of god and he promises his followers they will own the world as did Jesus promise his followers… The beast returns as does also Jesus..This is mohammed.

2 Corinthians 11-3, 4, 14 But I fear, lest by any means, as the SERPENT beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ…

For if he (the serpent) that cometh preacheth another Jesus, (Issa) whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, (Allah) which ye have not received, or another gospel, (Koran) which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him…The serpent is the dragon-beast of Rev 12-9 and rev. 13..
And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Satan comes claiming he is the light of God as was Jesus..

The beast who is a man that is indwelled by Satan is killed and rises again AFTER 1000 years…
This beast is the antichrist….His reappearing is the antichrist we will deal with for seven years.

Zechariah 5-1,3 speaks of a roll (book) that goes over the entire earth and is a curse….The word CURSE is spelled ALAH in Hebrew…

The fourth horse is likely about Mohammed’s reign of death too..
The white horse and rider are a counterfeit of Jesus on the white horse in Rev 19…Mohammed actually had a white horse named BARAK and said he would return on BARAK..

.

e1313ruth said this on February 7, 2014 at 6:07 pm | Reply
- I enjoyed your post Sir. Islam has a roll to play, that is for sure, but so does all other pagan religions, and the paganism within the Universal Church misleads also.
  
  Maybe, I am a hopeless Romantic, but I think we will see a false Jewish messiah who misleads, and convinces all to follow after the one who leads the One World government through central banks across 10 regions that become 7.
  
  Leatherneck said this on February 7, 2014 at 7:09 pm | Reply
Leatherneck, I think the hebrew roots cult which is worldwide and is leading the church and others backward into the old covenant. are the ‘jewish” effect..There members are identical to the pharisees who had Jesus and the apostles killed…
I think these deceivers will accept mohammed as their messiah the prophet of Deut 18-18…Mohamed claimed he was this messiah like Moses…Jesus was the prophet like Moses of Deut 18-18… Mohammed as usual just counterfeited Jesus by saying he was this prophet..

The lord is having those gathered into these satanic cults for their trip to hell… Those that do not accept Jesus or the Gospel of Christ as promised are believing lies that damn them..

e1313ruth said this on February 7, 2014 at 7:31 pm | Reply
- e1313ruth,
  
  I suggest watching this video to understand that Jesus was The Word (written in Hebrew) made flesh (John chapter 1 and 1st John).
  
  There is within this message very important information. But, I think you will not to do so. Maybe others will watch and learn.
  
  Blessings
  Psalm 86 (Old Testament but relevant today)
  
  DJ said this on February 8, 2014 at 3:02 am | Reply
- e et al,
  Please understand this.
  Mohammed will never be considered by any religion, especially Islam, as the messiah. He is considered to be just a prophet, like Daniel and Jesus. Islam claim that Jesus was just a man and not the son of God and that he never died on the cross – he used a dupe and just hid out for a few days to pretend to be resurrected.
  Their “messiah” would be the Mahdi, or the “12th Imam” who will rise out of a well in Iran and along with a resurrected Jesus (who is still dead right now) and lead Islam to conquer the world. He will return after Israel is attacked and a great war has begun.
  So if the Mahdi is the messiah, then Jesus cannot be. There would be no reason to believe anyone is the Mahdi unless Israel is currently under siege. And no Christians would ever get on board with a Muslim being our messiah – the religions are too different, as I’ve already pointed out.
  Now, almost all religions have pagan practices, including Christianity. That said, when Christ returns to marry His bride, the true church, which religion do you think He will clean up (destroy paganism in) before the wedding? Will he destroy Islam and leave the Catholic church untouched? What about Buddhism and Hinduism? They are anti-christ religions as well.
  No, the Book of Revelation was written for the Christian churches. Read the first three chapters – they address apostasy in the Christian churches of John’s time. Why would you think that later chapters would be addressing other religions? When the Jews backslid, God punished them. Now it is Christianity’s turn.
  But just as in Old Testament times, just before the Babylonian captivity, most people won’t believe the prophets, or in this case the Book of Revelation or the two witnesses. And the mark of the beast will be their punishment.
  But it much easier and more comfortable to believe that God’s wrath will be on some other religion, so we are off the hook and have nothing to worry about. That is the end-time deception that Satan has devised, and if Islam is Satan’s creation, then he has succeeded in his plan.
  
  James Giordano said this on February 8, 2014 at 8:47 am | Reply
  - James,
    Mohammed said he was the holy ghost comforter that comes after Jesus. of John 14-16., 26…
    Koran .[61.6] And when Isa son of Marium said:… O children of Israel! Surely I am the apostle of Allah to you, verifying that which is before me of the Taurat and giving the good news of an Apostle who will come after me, his name being Ahmad,…… but when he came to them with clear arguments they said: This is clear magic…ALMAD MEANS MOHAMMED…
    
    Translated Mohammed said that Jesus said in John 14-16 that the apostle Mohammed comes after him….If that is not Satan claiming he is God, what is…That is also Satan coming as an angel of light..
    
    There are lots of cults on earth but Islam is the cult that is attempting to break the ROCK IN PIECES by the denial that JESUS IS SON OF GOD AND GOD…and by denying his death… These two lies make Christianity null and void and also makes salvation null and void….
    Satan Islam has downgraded Jesus to a mere man and elevates Mohammed to being the holy ghost spirit that indwells people..Satan sits in the temple of god (our bodies) and says he is god,aka Allah the god of Abraham
    
    As for Christians we are eyeball deep in tribulation and temptation now…
    
    Mohammed is the madhi….He promises to return during judgment.. Note the TRUMPET IN these verses…
    [20.102] On the day when the trumpet shall be blown, and We will gather the guilty, blue-eyed, on that day
    [20.103] They shall consult together secretly: You did tarry but ten (centuries).
    [20.104] We know best what they say, when the fairest of them in course would say: You tarried but a day…A DAY=1000 years..
    Mohammed apparently appears after 1000 years as does also the beast, aka satan,.to gather the people..Rev 20-8 shows satan also returns out of the pit after 1000 years to gather the men who are numbered as the sand of the sea.. aka Arabs/Muslims.
    
    Mohammed said he would return in his family’s name.. That name is HUSSEIN via his grandsons… He said he would be as the SUNRISE IN THE WEST…Wow sounds like barack hussein obama and his sunrise in the west logo..and his Arab Springs group..
    
    Christianity is being judged…Judgment begins at the house of God first.
    
    e1313ruth said this on February 8, 2014 at 7:11 pm | Reply
    - e,
      The problem with your argument is that you quote the Koran as if it is true. It is all lies and nonsense, so you can’t believe in anything it says. Mohammed will never return in any way, shape or form.
      As far as God is concerned, it is just another false religion and he is not going to try to fix it or destroy it. He only wants to fix Christianity, that is all.
      And Obama is certainly NOT Mohammed. Why would he return as a Christian? Muslims right now consider Obama to be an infidel, just like all Christians and Jews. What exactly do you think Obama is going to do when he retires from office in 3 years? You think he will become the worldwide leADER OF ISLAM AND FORCE ALL CHRISTIANS TO CONVERT? Him AND WHAT ARMY? Do you think he could get you to convert? I don’t think anyone could get any Christians to convert.
      
      But maybe I’m wrong. It seems you have come to believe in what the Koran says is true, so maybe the next step is conversion.
      Anyway, nothing you mentioned will ever happen. Its too far fetched. Someday you will realize that and remember what I’ve said, hopefully, and come to the truth.
      So until then we must agree to disagree.
      And enjoy the discussion.
      Bless
      
      James Giordano said this on February 8, 2014 at 8:55 pm | Reply
Ruth,

You said;

“Satan counterfeits God… He comes as a messiah, with a gospel that teaches a Jesus and a spirit of god and he promises his followers they will own the world as did Jesus promise his followers…”

I believe you are right with that. But the question is, how do the sheep know the difference between “A” Jesus and “The” Jesus.

John 10

Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

10 “Yes, indeed! I tell you, the person who doesn’t enter the sheep-pen through the door, but climbs in some other way, is a thief and a robber. 2 But the one who goes in through the gate is the sheep’s own shepherd. 3 This is the one the gate-keeper admits, and the sheep hear his voice. He calls his own sheep, each one by name, and leads them out. 4 After taking out all that are his own, he goes on ahead of them; and the sheep follow him because they recognize his voice. 5 They never follow a stranger but will run away from him, because strangers’ voices are unfamiliar to them.”

What is it that is familiar to the sheep that they follow “the” true Jesus and not “a” Jesus? Would just be interested in knowing since HaSatan is the great deceiver.

Al said this on February 7, 2014 at 9:59 pm | Reply
- Al,
  
  God bless you (Psalm 20)!
  
  You will appreciate this Pastor Mark’s presentation. It should be shared in every evangelical “bible study”.
  
  This presentation fits the page topic and latest thread.
  
  2015, 2016 and 2017 are going to be very eventful years. Pastor Mark explains in great detail within this 2008 presentation.
  
  Blessings
  Rev. 12:11
  
  DJ said this on February 8, 2014 at 3:18 am | Reply
  - This theory was very popular at the turn of the century. As pastor Mark said, if his calculations were correct, the tribulation should have started in fall do 2008, but it obviously didn’t.
    Even if the tribulation starts this year, the Second Coming won’t happen till 2021. So if something significant does happen in 2015/16 it won’t be the Second Coming.
    But I’m sure there will be people who will swear up and down that the eclipses don’t lie and will expect Jesus to return in 2016 even with no other biblical signs having happened.
    Some right here on this site 🙂
    
    James Giordano said this on February 9, 2014 at 1:34 am | Reply
    - James,
      
      That is Pastor Mark’s view and you are the resident skeptics and critic, thank you.
      
      Here is another point of view, which I find more compelling and incorporates the “Blood Moon” cycle on this page. This is from Mr. Burton, written in 2010.
      
      “So, In summery, the angel basically tells Daniel how a threescore and two week count begins from a commandment to restore (Nov 29, 1947), and then, AFTER this period of threescore and two weeks pass……. (either 62 years or 62 Shavuots)…….., then some covenant/agreement would be set up for the remaining “Week” (2300 days) only to be broken in the midst. which in turn results in the abomination that begins the 1260 days of the “Great Tribulation to the end.
      
      Now, assuming the phrase “After 62 Weeks” should be counted in terms of YEARS, means it would fall sometime after Nov. 29th of 2009 has passed bringing us to early 2010 ……. BUT… counting the “After 62 Weeks” phrase in terms of SHAVUOTS, pinpoints it much clearer.
      
      The phrase, “After threescore and two Shavuots,” brings attention to the 63rd Feast of Weeks / Shavuot. ……The 63rd Feast of Weeks just happens to be this coming Feast of Weeks of 2010… (May 19, 2010 on the Rabbinic/Exile calendar).
      
      Since it was our Messiah Himself who told us the days would be shortened, and without breaking the Scripture or the Prophecy, just how many actual days could the “week” be … and still include a “week” of Shavuots (7) ?
      
      Daniel chapter 8 seems to give us the answer when the angel undisputedly said, “2300 days.” ( “And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.” )
      
      Beginning from this coming Rabbinic Shavuot (May 19, 2010), the 63rd one from the commandment that went forth in Nov. of 1947, and counting all the way to the end of Tribulation (Sept. 2nd of 2016), exactly as presented in the 2005 Daniel’s Timeline DVD, falls precisely as Teshuva (40 days of repentance ) begins on the following evening (Sept. 3rd 2016.)
      
      This period of time (from the 63rd Shavuot, May 19, 2010 to Teshuva of 2016) is exactly 2300 evenings and mornings to the day!
      
      And of course, Teshuva, the 40 days of repentance, (the days immediately following tribulation / Mat 24) includes the Feast of Trumpets (the Last Trump), and ends on Yom Kippur (judgment), with the Wedding Feast (Feast of Booths) shortly after.”
      
      See this link for the complete article with a time line chart.
      
      http://danielstimeline.com/page6.htm
      
      One day soon – the virgins will wake up and you will be ready too.
      
      Now, I must be going.
      
      Blessings
      Rev. 12:11
      
      DJ said this on February 9, 2014 at 2:15 am | Reply
      - Al,
        I have studied this time line before and I’m not buying it, sorry.
        It is common knowledge that the command to restore the temple was literal and refers to the second temple built just as the Jews were released from captivity in Babylon.
        The time line refers to the anointing of Jesus by John the Baptist and his 7 year ministry which was cut short halfway thru. The covenant with many is the New Covenant of Christ which replaced the covenant of Abraham.
        The 70 weeks were completed with the stoning of Steve after which the covenant was shared with both the Jews and the gentiles.
        Dan 7:24
        Seventy weeks are determined upon your people and upon your holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
        This verse tells the Jews, fresh from 70 years of punishment, that they have 70 weeks of years (490 years) to reconcile their former behavior and become righteous in God’s eyes and to accept His son as their messiah. They failed to do that and at the end of the 70 weeks they were no longer the chosen ones and God went to the rest of the world to find loyal followers.
        All of this makes perfect sense because it actually happened.
        The country of Israel is not a temple. There still is no temple there. The chapter makes no sense if applied to modern events. All you have is a bunch of dates and some clever number crunching. Nothing else in the chapter makes any sense. When you have to change the meaning of so many words in order to make them fit, that sends up a big red flag to me.
        Plus, if you believe in the last week of Daniel being the tribulation then you have it lasting an actual week, and that’s just crazy. And you can’t change the time line just to make the numbers fit together.
        What exactly do you expect to happen in 2016 anyway? Daniel says it ends with the anointing of the most Holy one, which if it isn’t Jesus’ baptism, must mean a second anointing after the Second Coming. Yes?
        Bless.
        
        Jim Giordano said this on February 11, 2014 at 12:49 pm | Reply
        
        I think we will see a false Jewish messiah that points all to follow the last global kingdom, and the one that rules it.
        
        Leatherneck said this on February 11, 2014 at 2:50 pm | Reply
        
        James,
        
        You are answering a post from DJ but have my name on it. Who are you addressing?
        
        Al said this on February 11, 2014 at 3:47 pm | Reply
        
        Hi Al,
        You’re right, that response was for DJ.
        Wrong initials…
        
        Jim Giordano said this on February 13, 2014 at 6:25 am | Reply
        
        James,
        
        You never answered who you wanted to respond, so I will quickly do so. We are worlds apart on just about everything. You see and understand everything from a Western, Greek, Gentile, Christian perspective and understanding, which is expected. In other words, I don’t expect you or really hardly anyone else to agree. That is not what this is about. You are free to have you opinion and I am good with that.
        
        You say your not “buying it”; truth be known I am not trying to “sell it” to you. I said from the beginning of what was written above, concerning this coming Passover, that I didn’t know for a fact that things would happen exactly as I interpreted it. It was given as something to watch closely and be prepared for. Everything that was written, outside of how I tied all the facts together, is verifiable and true. The thing is, there is just too much there to ignore. But you do what you will.
        
        If you ever really want to understand things, you need to search out what the Hebrew writers of scripture were saying, based on their Hebrew culture and perspective. The Hebrews understood scripture to have more depth and meaning. When you try and isolate scripture and date it based on your own limited knowledge, you are deceiving yourself and possibly others.
        
        What are you afraid of?
        
        Shalom
        
        Al said this on February 12, 2014 at 2:35 pm | Reply
        
        If you ever really want to understand things, you need to search out what the Hebrew writers of scripture were saying, based on their Hebrew culture and perspective. The Hebrews understood scripture to have more depth and meaning. When you try and isolate scripture and date it based on your own limited knowledge, you are deceiving yourself and possibly others.What are you afraid of?
        
        Al,Sad to say since the Jews do not understand their own scriptures ….How could the Christians learn by going backward into Hebrew roots…The Jews for over 2000 years have denied Jesus is the messiah and God in flesh though He tells us plainly in Isaiah 43-10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God FORMED, neither shall there be after me. FORMED MEANS MADE FLESH..Next verse…V.11…I, (God the father) even I, (Jesus) am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
        
        Amos 5-19…As if a man did flee from a (rev. 13)lion, and a bear met him; or went into the house, and leaned his hand on the wall, and a (pharisees)serpent bit him. ..When you escape the cults like Islam, etc the Hebrew rots pharisee serpents bite you and Amos 51-20., 21..God said….I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell in your solemn assemblies. ..Though ye offer me burnt offerings and your meat offerings, I will not accept them: neither will I regard the peace offerings of your fat beasts.
        
        Jews do not understand who God was speaking to of Genesis 1-26..They do not know what the two trees in the midst of the garden represent, nor do they know what original sin was though the old testaments shows the answers clearly..
        
        The also apparently do not know the ten commandments during Moses life time were a blessing and a curse..
        
        The only way a person can learn from Hebrew rots doctrines is when they give you their lies the Lord makes real truth become glaringly obvious… Precisely why Job said…
        
        Job11-6.And that he would shew thee the secrets of wisdom, that they are double to that which is!
        
        Job 12-7.. But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee:
        
        When we are confronted with the beast cults of Islam and Hebrew Rots and do not accept their lies the real truths become known and the hidden wisdom Job spoke of in Job 11-6 becomes known…
        
        For instance…connect the dots…pharisees are children of Satan and do his works…They are called serpents…These taught good and evil….The good are the ten commandments.. The evil are the punishments, ordinances , etc….The poor dumb suckers in Hebrew rots cults are being set up to accept the messiah like Moses…It however will not be Jesus…It will be Mohammed who claimed to be this messiah and teaches his versions of Hebrew rots and Christianity…All lies from Satan..
        
        The sad thing is Jews think they own the old testament and especially the first five books… Well friend Christians own the entire Bible…
        Jesus said He would save all of Israel….Maybe that is also why hebrew rots cults are being exposed today..
        
        I hope what I have said is not too much for you to digest..
        
        e1313ruth said this on February 12, 2014 at 6:45 pm | Reply
        
        Ruth,
        
        I want to take a few minutes and tie together all that we have been discussing over the past week. This is the question I posed to you;
        What is it that is familiar to the sheep that they follow “the” true Jesus and not “a” Jesus? Would just be interested in knowing since HaSatan is the great deceiver.
        
        This is the scripture that forms the basis for this discussion;
        
        1. John 10
        Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
        
        10 “Yes, indeed! I tell you, the person who doesn’t enter the sheep-pen through the door, but climbs in some other way, is a thief and a robber. 2 But the one who goes in through the gate is the sheep’s own shepherd. 3 This is the one the gate-keeper admits, and the sheep hear his voice. He calls his own sheep, each one by name, and leads them out. 4 After taking out all that are his own, he goes on ahead of them; and the sheep follow him because they recognize his voice. 5 They never follow a stranger but will run away from him, because strangers’ voices are unfamiliar to them.”
        
        I asked you what was familiar about Messiah’s voice that the sheep understand and follow. Your responses were always what you were feeling, about hearing a voice you perceived to be Messiah’s. How do you know that the “voice” you are hearing is that of Messiah?
        
        2 Corinthians 11:14
        Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
        
        14 There is nothing surprising in that, for the Adversary himself masquerades as an angel of light;
        
        HaSatan can quote scripture better than we ever thought possible, all for the purpose of deceiving us.
        What is glaring in all of what you said is the absence of His Word, which is what is familiar to the sheep. When John said that Messiah was the Word, he was speaking of the Torah, the literal words of Yah. It is not the inflection in an audible voice or voices in our head that we follow. It is the rock, the foundation given from the beginning that we stand on, His Word. We, as the sheep judge our thoughts, voices in our heads, and understanding we are given, by His Word. If it doesn’t line up with that, it is of the enemy. Your experience is classic and accounts for the Christian Church heading in so many different directions, based solely on our understanding of a hand full of letters from Paul and pretty much only Paul. Don’t get me wrong, I believe that Paul was sent by Yah and that his letters are right and true. When the words given by Yah in the beginning are seemingly overturned or abolished by other words given in scripture, and we accept that as being the case, we are at that point following a “shepherd” that has climbed over the wall, whose purpose is to deceive, kill, steal, and destroy.
        
        Proverbs 22:6
        Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
        
        6 Train a child in the way he [should] go; and, even when old, he will not swerve from it.
        
        We understand this to be true between a father and his child. We teach them what is right and true in their youth so that they will grow to be productive and giving law abiding citizens of their community.
        
        Is Yah schizophrenic? The following is a definition of this word;
        
        a state characterized by the coexistence of contradictory or incompatible elements.
        
        Psalm 119:89
        Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
        ל (Lamed)
        
        89 Your word continues forever, ADONAI, firmly fixed in heaven;
        
        Are we to believe that Yah taught His people, from the beginning for 4,000 years, that the Torah (His Word) is eternal, that He changes not, that He showed the pattern for how we are to raise our children with the correct and right message from the beginning, so that they would stay on the right path, but at the end change everything and turn His Word upside down, basically saying He didn’t really mean what He said in the beginning? That now, we are to disregard that which was given in the beginning to be evil?
        
        If that is the case why did Messiah follow the Word? Why did the Apostles (including Paul) follow and keep His Word=Torah?
        Yah is not schizophrenic! But the majority of His people have a huge problem in figuring this out. The Christian Church has been deceived for over 1700 years now concerning this and the Jews have been blinded by Yah. It has all been according to the 7000 year plan for this earth, but the time of restoration and reconciliation is at hand. To bring the Jews who hold fast to Messiah the Word (Torah) and the Christian Church who hold fast to Messiah our Salvation (the Lamb), and make them one.
        
        It is time to stop listening to outside voices that lead us astray. Maybe someday soon, His people will come to understand and be reconciled to their brothers and sisters, both Jew and Gentile by the receiving of His eternal Word that changes not, given from the beginning!
        
        Shalom
        
        Al said this on February 13, 2014 at 5:15 pm | Reply
        
        Al.
        Genesis 49-17…Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.
        This is prophecy of the serpent-Hebrew roots cults that cause Christians to fall backward into old covenant..It is probably also prophecy about the pharisees of Jesus day..
        
        Looks like some of the Jews will be a serpent pretending to be in the way of Christ that bite the heels to cause one to go backward into old covenant..
        
        Al, your lack of knowledge of the mysteries in the Bible shows clearly you
        are not being led by God..It is you who are listening to men’s voices, not God’s voice.
        
        As for follpwing the voice of Jesus, children always knows their father’s voice..
        Do you even understand that hebrew rots dctrines are same as Islam’s doctrines about the laws…
        
        e1313ruth said this on February 13, 2014 at 7:31 pm | Reply
        
        Ruth,
        
        One last reply and I will move on. There is one last thing to be said. There is evidently no place in you for restoration & reconciliation (gathering) of Yah’s people=The Jews and the Christian Church-Ephraim. The Jews will never renounce and reject the Torah for you or anyone else. They have been tortured, killed, exiled, and anything else you can imagine for the crime of not converting to the Christian Church and rejecting Torah. The ones who did convert were so sickened by the paganism, they ended up choosing death rather than accept the idolatry contained in Christianity. But there are those in the Christian Church who are starting to understand the foundations of our faith and learning to walk by the full truth of Messiah the Word and Messiah our salvation, to bring in the redemption of ALL Israel, both Jew and Gentile-One New Man!
        
        The following scripture is a warning given by Messiah in Matthew. Let those who have eyes to see and ears to hear take notice:
        
        Matthew 12:30-32
        
        30 “Those who are not with me are against me, and those who do not gather with me are scattering. 31 Because of this, I tell you that people will be forgiven any sin and blasphemy, but blaspheming the Ruach HaKodesh will not be forgiven. 32 One can say something against the Son of Man and be forgiven; but whoever keeps on speaking against the Ruach HaKodesh will never be forgiven, neither in the ‘olam hazeh nor in the ‘olam haba.
        
        This applies to both Jews and Christians, or anyone for that matter.
        
        In the midst of all your bitterness and anger, I hope you find a little love and understanding for those who don’t necessarily believe the way you happen to. By the verse above, it seems that blaspheme against Ruach HaKodesh is connected with our determination of either gathering with Messiah or choosing to scatter. You choose who to listen to; that little voice in your head or the Word of Yah.
        
        Shalom
        
        Al said this on February 13, 2014 at 8:53 pm
        
        “SHEMA YISROEL, ADONAI ELOHENU, ADONAI ECHAD!”
        
        Hear O Yisrael, the Lord our God is one Lord!
        
        Al said this on February 14, 2014 at 7:45 pm | Reply
        
        amen
        
        Marianne said this on February 14, 2014 at 8:10 pm
- Al, the fear of the Lord is the BEGINNING of wisdom…
  
  In Genesis 28-12 through 17, Jacob dreamed of a ladder that reached into heaven and the angels of God ascended and descended on it… Jacob said this is the GATE OF GOD… Jesus is this ladder and gate…see John 1-51..
  
  Genesis 22-17…That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the GATE of his enemies…This verse tells us the gate, aka Jesus would come out of the blood line of Isaac..It also tells us Ishmael’s descendants must enter this gate to find god..
  
  You quoted,
  “””But climbs in some other way, is a thief and a robber..””””.The thief and robbers are those who pretend to be Christians but have come only to steal the true words of god out of men’s hearts and minds..
  
  That is why it is essential we believe the Gospel…Jesus said those that BELIEVE the Gospel and are baptized shall be saved…..NOTE: Jesus did not say those that understand the Gospel but those that believe it and do not apply their own personal interpretation of it…They simply believe it and understand their minds are limited and their understanding must come through holy ghost teacher, not of man..
  
  Jesus added signs to those that believe the Gospel , healing, casting out demons and TAKING UP SERPENTS and not being hurt if you drink their deadly poisonous doctrines. These serpents are like the pharisees who Jesus said continuously were serpents..about like the Hebrew rots doctrines…the law which is good but the punishments and ordinances etc.which are cursed…Satan is still teaching good, the law and evil, the ordinances and punishments, etc…
  
  I am not sure I know the answer to your following question except my own reason for knowing..
  What is it that is familiar to the sheep that they follow “the” true Jesus and not “a” Jesus? Would just be interested in knowing since HaSatan is the great deceiver…
  
  A broken heart can lead you into seeking God with our all …I guess a broken heart helps to remove all the pride of heart we all have ……We become humbled and do not rely on our own or other men’s faulty answers…..We seek and find answers from God…
  
  He has a pretty hard time getting through to us sometimes because Satan has implanted so many lies in the churches and in our minds…The truth and lies are not compatible…The lies must be removed before we accept the real truths..
  
  As for me I listen and remember and wait for confirmation from the Lord…
  And over time I have learned almost by instinct about Satan’s lies, etc. Maybe also because I know and believe the gospel..
  
  e1313ruth said this on February 8, 2014 at 7:54 pm | Reply
  - Ruth,
    
    I appreciate your honesty. If I could ask you another question or two;
    
    You say,
    
    “As for me I listen and remember and wait for confirmation from the Lord…”
    
    What are you listening to and how do you get confirmation from Yah? In other words, how do these things come to you, that causes you to follow them without question? Just wondering.
    
    Al said this on February 10, 2014 at 3:37 pm | Reply
    - Al, the only way I can explain hearing the Lord’s voice about Scriptures is that it is like a feeling that arises in my heart and is transformed into words….
      
      I have heard His voice many times waning me of danger and revealing Scripture and giving me answers in my own personal life..
      
      I also know we can sometimes mistake our own thoughts for god’s voice…I guess that flaw might be due to original sin and thinking we are gods..
      
      The most astounding time was when I felt a cool wind from head to foot and I was filled with incomprehensible peace and love.. I expected to speak in tongues as our church taught… But I did not speak in tongues….Instead some of the Scriptural mysteries became as clear as glass to me….This lasted for weeks…It was so overpowering I could not speak for days……
      
      Even now I can ask the Lord a question and he shows me the answers..Though .Not nearly as dramatic, maybe because I am not as young now.
      
      e1313ruth said this on February 10, 2014 at 8:10 pm | Reply
Marianne I think you are losing the truth….
Isaiah 14-…12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! 13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit ALSO upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

Lucifer says he will exalt his throne above the stars of God …This occurs in Rev .12…
Lucifer’s fall occurs when he ascends into the heavens of Rev 12 where he is defeated and cast down to earth…
Lucifer says I will sit ALSO upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
The side of the north is Jerusalem and Lucifer is most definitely sitting on the mount of the Islamic congregation in the mosque in Jerusalem..

e1313ruth said this on February 8, 2014 at 10:34 pm | Reply
God does not dwell in temples made with hands….our body is the temple of god…
God indwelling Christians is the rebuilding of the temple
John 2…19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.

1 Corinthians If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.3-17..

e1313ruth said this on February 12, 2014 at 7:52 pm | Reply
AL
When Jesus cast devils out of a man the pharisees accused Him of doing it by Beelzebub..Mark 29-22…This is the unforgivable sin….It is saying and believing the holy ghost spirit is the devil..

Mark 3-29…But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: V. 30…Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

John 14-16, 29 says Jesus is the holy ghost comforter spirit that comes after he departs..
Mohammed said he was the comforter-holy ghost that comes after Jesus …

Let me show you this unforgivable sin…
Koran 61-1..[61.6] And when Isa son of Marium said: O children of Israel! Surely I am the apostle of Allah to you, verifying that which is before me of the Taurat and giving the good news of an Apostle who will come after me, his name being Ahmad, but when he came to them with clear arguments they said: This is clear magic….Translated ..Jesus said ahmed (Mohammed) the comforter comes after him…
THIS IS THE UNFORGIVABLE SIN….It is when you accuse holy ghost as being Satan or Satan of being holy ghost…Pretty much shows who mohammed really was..
This is exactly what you are doing to me…. You are saying the truth, mostly Bible verses are of men, my own mind or Satan..
The Christians who go backward into old covenant Hebrew rots are Judas’..
And Hebrew rots are of the serpent by the way of Genesis 49-

I repeat what I said earlier, you know almost nothing about the Bible the old testament or the new testament..,..If I were you I would complain to God that an old woman Christian has more truth than you do…..I forgive you and I understand how hard it is to let go of lies in our minds especially when our very foundation is built on them… The only answer I know is to admit we are not like God in knowing what is good and what is evil and let Him teach us…I hope the best for you Al…
And I hope you forgive me for telling you truth…

As for Jews being killed and persecuted , Just once I would like to see the world celebrate the deaths of possibly 40 million men who died to stop Hitler’s murderous reign….
Christians have also been persecuted, and killed for 2000 years and many were killed by the Jews,,, aka the pharisees..

e1313ruth said this on February 13, 2014 at 10:59 pm | Reply
Al, Jesus is the God of the beginning…the beginning is genesis 1-1which says IN THE BEGINNING GOD……..John tells us the word was god….John 1 and genesis 1-1

Do you even understand that the apostles were almost all jewish as were the first converts…The bloodlne of Israel is in Christianity…

Do you also Judaism was infiltrated by the descendants of Ishamel and Esau 2000 years ago… This means present day Israelites may or may not be true Israelites…

Those jews rejected their own messiah then and also today…They have invented another Jesus who places old covenant over and above new covenant…
Those that follow you do not know Jesus voice, nor do you Al…

e1313ruth said this on February 14, 2014 at 9:05 pm | Reply
STUDY THE TRUE WORD OF GOD WITH PASTOR ARNOLD MURRAY AT http://www.shepherdschapel.com

mary e. waltimyer said this on March 14, 2014 at 2:27 pm | Reply
Daniel’s 70 sevens are all exactly 2,520 days each. 2,520 is the smallest number divisible from 2 to 10 as a basic prophetic working unit. From the declaration to rebuild the Temple (Neh. 2.1) 444 BC, Daniel said there would be 173,880 days (March 28, 33 AD Gregorian, Nisan 10, 1st day inspection of the lamb) before the Messiah is cut off (7 x 360 x 2,520) on April 1, 33 AD, Passover, Friday leaving 1 last seven of 2,520 days at the end of this age before Christ steps down.

What are the two requirements for the Tribulation to commence after Israel becomes a nation and takes over Jerusalem and the Rev. 6.12 great earthquake (Haiti 2010, Japan 2011 first ever on human record), black sackcloth sun (Nov. 3, 2013 long H3 Solar, 4th since Christ) and red blood moon (2014/15 Tetrad)? 1) The implant under the skin to be able to buy and sell. 2) 3rd Temple must be completed with 2300 days left to the end of the Tribulation for the Temple to be cleansed (Dan. 8.14).

Initially I thought the Tribulation could be exactly 2,520 days from Feast of Trumpets Sept. 14, 2015 to Tisha B’Av Aug. 7, 2022 when the 1st and 2nd Temples were destroyed, but it appears that the two requirements above will not be fulfilled in time.

To my surprise a solution was found. There are several examples in the Bible of a 7 year preparatory period so 2015-22 can be that preparatory period. And we find most fittingly there are 2,550 days (1260+1290) from Feast of Trumpets Sept. 26, 2022 to Day of Atonement Sept. 19, 2029.

What then is the sign of the Son of Man in Matt. 24.30? It is none other than the asteroid Apophis that comes within satellite range of earth and is about 3 football fields in length. Think of all the hoopla that will be generated surrounding this asteroid as it comes closer. No asteroid this large has come this close to earth since Christ. And as it turns out, amazingly, there is exactly 2300 days from Passover April 6, 2023 to Tisha B’Av July 22, 2029 for the Temple to be cleansed.

The only question then becomes even though you are born-again if you are a Christian, will you be accounted ready to be received “before the throne” (Rev. 7.9) before the 1st trumpet (8.7) by keeping the word of His patience to escape the hour of trial that is to come upon the whole world? (3.10). If you are not watchful and prayerful, you will not be taken but left (Matt. 24.40-42, Luke 21.36). To be left is to pass through the Tribulation to be raptured at the start of the 7th trumpet’s 7 bowls. (Rev. 11.15, 1 Thess. 4.14-18).

To lose this reward is a great loss because you will lose the reward of returning with Christ to reign on earth for 1000 years, assuming you still do not overcometh during the Tribulation as well.

To understand more about how partial rapture works, read this…
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Partial_rapture.htm

It’s truly amazing that only partial rapture understands that Revelation is the past 20 centuries so if you don’t believe in partial rapture, you will be confused.

Troy Brooks said this on March 17, 2014 at 8:04 pm | Reply
- Troy,
  I seriously doubt that the Haiti earthquake counts as a great earthquake of biblical proportions. It was deadly due to poor construction and disease, but not that large and the Japan deaths were all from the tsunami, not the quake. And the solar and lunar eclipses are also nothing that unusual and have happened many times in the past. These events will shake the whole world and occur after the 2nd, 3rd and 4th seals which will be WW3 and its aftermath, not yet happened.
  I’m afraid like so many others around here you have developed a time line and are plugging into it whatever events you can scrounge up to fit it. Same is true with the prep time idea. There isn’t even a single 7-year tribulation let alone twice that. Daniel’s 70 weeks ended 3-½ years after the resurrection in 31AD. (Passover in 33 AD was on a Saturday and it needs to be on a Wednesday (31) for the resurrection to happen 3 days and 3 nights later. Friday is just bad math.
  I think you are rushing the gun by starting your time line in 2015 just because of the four eclipses. I do rethink you are close on the Second Coming date. I’m expecting it to be 2000 years from the resurrection or 2031. Somehow 1998 years is not a very biblical number, if you’re into that sort of thing.
  
  Jim Giordano said this on March 18, 2014 at 2:54 am | Reply
  - I’m not saying there is two 7 year periods. Rather, there is a 7 year preparatory period from 2015 to 2022 then the Tribulation from 2022 to 2029.
    
    The story of Joseph may predict a seven year period of abundance given to prepare for the Tribulation.
    
    Joseph was told that there would be seven years of abundance to prepare Egypt for the seven years of famine that would follow. Genesis 41:25-49. This may be a prophetic type of a seven year period of abundance that will precede the Tribulation as a time for the Church and Israel to prepare. This principal of Divine warning to make preparation for a specified period of tribulation is seen in other Biblical examples:
    
    •Noah was warned to prepare food and enter the ark 7 days before the flood began.
    •Rahab was warned 7 days before the battle of Jericho and so made plans to safeguard her family. She was taken out by the two spies after the 7th trumpet on the 7th day.
    •Israel was warned to prepare provisions 7 days before they crossed the Jordan to Jericho.
    •Elisha warned the Shunamite woman about the 7 year famine that was about to occur.
    •Israel was promised abundant crops before the land was rested on the Sabbatical Year.
    
    Troy Brooks said this on June 15, 2014 at 7:02 am | Reply
  - The first four seals are general in nature indicating the past 20 centuries for notice in the seals 1/4 die but in the trumpets and bowls 1/3 die. These are two different times. The Trumpets comprise the 7 year Tribulation. The Seals the past 20 centuries. Would Jesus wait 2000 years to begin breaking the seals after he is holding the book in Rev. 5? Of course not. The 1st seal is the cross that looks like a bow and arrow but the arrow has been shot giving Satan a deadly wound, rendering him ineffective against spiritual Christians. Jesus is the same rider on the white horse as in Rev. 19.
    
    Rev. 6.12 before the 7 year Trib begins…
    
    Haiti 2010 – 2nd most deaths of any earthquake on human record.
    Japan 2011 – 4th greatest magnitude on earth on record.
    Long H3 solar eclipse Nov. 3, 2013 was the 4th since Christ. Very rare indeed! Won’t happen again till 2172. Hybrids are the rarest of all eclipses and H3’s are the rarest hybrids.
    The feast Tetrad 2014/15 is extremely rare (8th since Christ) and won’t happen again till 2582/83 nearly 600 years.
    
    2015 is significant just as 1949/50 and 1967/68 were. The red blood moon, the last one of the 2014/15 Tetrad will be seen over Israel and it will be the closest to the Earth both on a monthly and yearly basis. They call this a SUPER RED BLOOD MOON TETRAD. Pay attention! Wake up! Construction on the 3rd Temple will begin no later than 2015-16.
    
    Neh. 2.1 444 BC from the declaration to rebuild the Temple (Dan. 9.24-27) there would be seven sets of seven then another 62 sets of seven for a total of 173,880 days then the Messiah would be cut off.
    
    That 173,880th day takes us to the day Nisan 10, Monday, March 28 (Gregorian), 33 AD. The 4 day inspection of the lamb was March 28, 29, 30, 31. Jesus died on Passover April 1, 33 AD Friday, Nisan 14 (April 3 Julian). There is no Friday Nisan 14 associated to your 31 AD so you are suffering from bad math! and overassuming.
    
    When Jesus died and was resurrected there was not a fulfillment of Dan. 9.24 for sin still reigned, Israel was still in transgression.
    
    Jesus was captured by Israel 3 days and 3 nights. Jesus was captured Thursday, died Friday, raised Sunday — Thurs night, Fri night, Sat night; Friday morning, Saturday morning, Sunday morning. When the Bible says Jesus was raised ON THE Third Day this phraseology applies to parts of a day so Friday, Saturday, Sunday. So this all fits but it wouldn’t fit for your Wednesday nonsense.
    
    You’re math is bad! Think how evil it would be for Jesus to have died on a Wednesday then the women would let half a week go by without putting spices on his body. What love is that?
    
    I ask again, what love is that? Your bad theology comes from your loveless faith and worshiping a false Christ.
    
    Troy Brooks said this on June 15, 2014 at 7:21 am | Reply
[…] Image Source […]

Blood Moon – April 14-15 | Higher Density Blog said this on April 15, 2014 at 3:33 am | Reply
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Blood Moon – Harbinger Of Change – April 14-15 | Higher Density Blog said this on April 15, 2014 at 5:53 am | Reply
There are 2,520 days from Feast of Trumpets Sept. 26, 2015 to Tisha B’Av Aug. 7, 2022 when the 1st and 2nd Temples were destroyed.

Consider those 2,520 days a 7 year preparatory period (see verses above to substantiate this).

Then follows the Tribulation. There are 2,550 days (1260 plus 1260 plus 30 days more to the 1290th) from Feast of Trumpets Sept. 26, 2022 to Day of Atonement Sept. 19, 2029.

And of course the sign of the Son of Man is Apophis April 13, 2029 — the most unique event on human record that can fit the sign.

Troy Brooks said this on June 15, 2014 at 7:24 am | Reply
It’s amazing that God provides these signs as the most unique astrological events in the history of the human race predicted in Scripture and still that is not enough to convince you? Shame on you. Since that won’t convince you, nothing will. How gracious God has been with such clear signs of His second coming which could not have been before the 8th Tetrad nor after the year 2029 of Apophis.

Troy Brooks said this on June 15, 2014 at 7:28 am | Reply
- I can see the possibility with the dates you give. while I see the 4 seals as occuring over the past 2000 years, I also see them climaxing in the immediate pretrib and trib years. If 2029 is the return of christ that would actually be a full 2000 years since his last trip here.
  
  Marianne said this on June 15, 2014 at 11:52 am | Reply
  - Jesus doesn’t die again so the 1st Seal happens once only. The number of deaths is 1/4 in the Seals whereas in the Trumpets it is 1/3 in Rev. 9 so these are different times. They do not overlap as you suggested. Those who are given white robes in the 5th Seal before the Tribulation starts are not given white robes again under the alter as martyrs. It was a one time event and they wait for the rest of the martyrs to come through during the Tribulation. The 7th Seal opens and begins the Trumpets with the 1st trumpet Rev. 8.7. So again, the 4 Seals are the past 2000 years, the 5th Seal will happen soon before the Tribulation starts and the 7th Seal is the Tribulation for it comprises the 7 trumpets (loud) as the 7th trumpet is composed of the 7 bowls of wrath (everything happening so fast it is as though time stood still as they are poured silently, larger than cups). The 1st 4 trumpets (Rev. 8) take 42 months — only the earth is hurt. The 5th trumpet is 5 months. The 6th Trumpet is 13 months. That leaves 24 months for the 7th trumpet of 7 bowls.
    
    Troy Brooks said this on June 15, 2014 at 11:10 pm | Reply
well Troy,
At this point in time anyone could point to every natural event and say it is a sign of the second coming and basically be right.
But your idea that the seals have been opening for the last 2000 years is way out there.
As you said there have been 8 tetrads since the time of Christ, and I’ll bet every one was expected to bring His return. But No.
How sloppy do you think God’s predictions will be? 10 years? 100 years? 2000 years? Everyone believes Daniel’s 70 weeks still isn’t over almost 2000 years later.
Same thing applies to the following:
,
Matthew 12:40
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
,
According to most people, Jesus died on a Friday and rose Sunday morning – 2 nights and one day. Then they use semantics to explain it away.
If anything, the number would be 3-1/2 days, that being a biblical number – half of the number 7 you assign much value to. After all, the two witnesses will lie dead in the streets of Jerusalem for 3-1/2 days, then be resurrected and ascend just as Jesus did. Do you believe they will only be dead for 36 hours? You’re math is terrible. And you even reinterpreted the fact that Jesus would be in the tomb 3 days and 3 nights. You claim it was really the time he was captured by the Romans instead – just to squeeze a little more time out of the scenario. There is never a need to fudge God’s word. You could open a bakery with all your fudging!
As for the anointing of Jesus’ body, the day after Passover is an annual Sabbath day and as the bible says they could not use it to anoint the body. They would have waited till Friday. But if Jesus would have died on Friday then no anointing at all would have occurred since Saturday is always a Sabbath and He rose early Sunday, so what kind of love would that have been?

I do agree about one thing – Apophis. It will be Wormwood which will happen during the tribulation. But not at the Second Coming. It will be a couple of years before that. After all, there is a lot that happens after wormwood including the build up to Armageddon. But if Jesus left in 31 AD, why would he return 1998 years later? God works in millenniums, not almost millenniums.
Your whole strategy is based on the last year of the tetrad. The bible is full of clues to the end times, but there is no mention of tetrads. You are putting all your hopes on a whim with a little help from numerology and fudge. Of course, this is far from uncommon. The only problem is that everyone has their own recipe for fudge so their results are usually very different. This blog alone has dozens of different predictions and there are hundreds more around the internet.
Sorry but I can’t put all my marbles into a hunch about some eclipses. No matter how rare they might be.
When the seals finally open, everyone will know without a doubt. Believing they are long since opened just means you won’t be ready for the real thing when it finally comes.

Jim Giordano said this on June 15, 2014 at 9:58 am | Reply
- You’re wrong. Not every natural event spells the return of Christ. Only unique events as per the Bible. The first 4 Seals have already happened. They are general in scope. Jesus in the 1st Seal already died on the cross and as though newly slain in chapter 5 since His death is always fresh to us. Would He wait 2000 years to begin opening the Seals leaving a blank period in our understanding of history? Of course not. The Trumpets of the Tribulation are very specific. In fact, Rev. 12 to 19 give even more details to the 7 Trumpets from Rev. 7 to 11. This is similar to how Gen. 2 gives the details of Gen. 1. Not everyone of the Tetrads would be the return of Jesus as you think. First the Temple would need to be completed so it must be the 8th Tetrad, not before then. Ezekiel on his side predicted to the month of May and year 1948 when Israel would become a nation again. One other element is needed, of course, the implant under the skin to buy and sell to be pervasive enough which did not exist prior to now and is still in development.
  
  Jesus was in the heart of earthly Israel (not Rome) for 3 days and 3 nights (as it was under the impetus of the Jews) which agrees with Jesus resurrected ON THE THIRD DAY — Fri, Sat, Sun. Don’t let your petty self get the better of you! Your idea can’t match this verse ON THE THIRD DAY. This is common Jewish expression. Your Wed date fails since Wed night, Thur night, Fri night, Sat night is 4 nights. And Wed day, Thurs day, Fri day, Sat day and Sun day are 5 days. You’re confused. Passover and the Annual Sabbath fell on the same day April 1, 33 AD, Friday when Jesus was anointed as Savior on the cross and put in the tomb that day thanks to Joseph of Arimathea. Think how unloving you are that the women would wait a half a week to put spices on the body. What love is that? You must like chocolate a lot and fudge. The Two Witnesses were raised 3 1/2 days later whereas Jesus was raised on the 3rd day because He is God. 4 is the number of man. The Two Witnesses were overcomer martyrs and will receive great reward not as 3 not as 4 but 3 1/2.
  
  Friday April 1, 33 AD (Gregorian) is when Jesus died. It’s also April fools day because people like you mock Jesus’ death and put it on another day similar to you. The 4 day inspection was March 28, 29, 30, 31 from Nisan 10 to Nisan 13. This doesn’t fit your timeline. There are exactly 173,880 days from Neh. 2.1 to March 28, 33 AD. Again, your thinking is off.
  
  Wormwood is nuclear radiation, not Apophis. Of course radiation will increase in the second half the Great Tribulation of 3 1/2 years. Apophis is an asteroid about 3 football fields in length. Wormwood begins in the 1st half of the Tribulation since it is part of the first four trumpets. Apophis April 13, 2029 occurs at the end of the Tribulation near when Jesus returns. Day of Atonement is Sept. 19, 2029. Every 7 out of 19 years there are 2,520 days from Feast of Trumpets to Tisha B’Av. The other 12 out of 19 years there are 2,550 days from Feast of Trumpets to Day of Atonement.
  
  Jesus did not die in 31 AD since Jesus died on a Friday on Passover, and the only year that fits for that is April 1, 33 AD.
  
  The most important sign before the construction of the 3rd Temple, before the implant to buy and sell and after Israel becomes a nation again and after reclaims Jerusalem is the 8th Tetrad because Rev. 6.12 says 3 things happen before the Tribulation’s 1st trumpet (8.7) starts: 1) great earthquake, 2) black sackcloth sun, 3) red blood moon (i.e. feast Tetrad). Not even in 2582/83 when the feast Tetrad happens again will there be the unique black sackcloth sun as we see Nov. 3, 2013 let alone great earthquakes such as Haiti 2010 and Japan 2011. Never before in history have two earthquakes of such magnitude every occurred back to back year over year. And that was only the 4th long H3 solar eclipse since Christ the rarest of all solar eclipses. It won’t happen again till 2172. Even the most unprecedented events in human history won’t convince a non-believer such as yourself. All you have to wait for is the Lake of Fire. Satan in your heart calls this numerology, but this is in no way numerology. See how Satan works in you? You make up stuff. Satan they say is the great false accuser.
  
  The Seals have already opened the past 20 centuries. Jesus already died shooting the arrow of the cross. There already have been plagues, death, shortage of money, etc accounting for 1/4 of all deaths. What comes next is the 5th Seal where the martyrs from the past 20 centuries are given white robes of reward as overcomers along with the overcomers alive at the first rapture “before the throne” (Rev. 7.9) before the 1st trumpet of the Tribulation begins (8.7). Not all Christians receive this reward. Only those who keep the word of His patience, are watchful and prayerful (Matt. 24.40-42, Luke 21.36, Rev. 3.10).
  
  This is called partial rapture. Study it.
  
  http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Partial_rapture.htm
  
  Troy Brooks said this on June 15, 2014 at 11:51 pm | Reply
  - In the sermon on the mount Jesus described the signs of His Second Coming. They included the first four seals which are the antichrist/ False Prophet, a world war followed by starvation followed by diseases. The 2nd-4th are related – cause and effect. The first horseman is not Jesus but a false Christ – like those mentioned by Jesus in the sermon on the mount. He carries a bow without an arrow because his words are without truth.
    These are signs Jesus gave us so we know His coming is near. What war, which famine and what pestilence do you think are the seals? Or don’t they matter – we can pick any of the hundreds of examples over the last 2000 years?
    And why Haiti? The quake and tsunami in Indonesia were larger and killed over ¼ million people. The 7.0 Haiti quake was almost insignificant in comparison.
    And why would the 4th greatest quake be the one selected by God to be in the bible? It says it will be the greatest quake of ALL time. Is God now fudging?
    The timing of a Wednesday Passover (as in 31AD) is as follows: Passover started sunset Wednesday. The following morning Jesus is brought to Pilate and condemned. He is crucified in the afternoon (now Thursday to us) and is buried at sunset – the beginning of Jewish Thursday. Now count the days – Thu night+day; Fri night+day; Sat night+day, then rises Sunday night before sunrise. The time would actually be 3-1/2 days – half of 7 or perfection. Why? Because Jesus preached for 3-1/2 years out of a 7-year covenant and then was cut off.
    If you believe in biblical numbers then this makes sense. 1-1/2 days in the tomb just isn’t biblical.
    The darkening of the sun moon (and stars) is not due to eclipses. They are too common, and don’t last very long. Only ½ the earth can see a lunar eclipse and almost no one is ever in the precise path of a total solar eclipse. Almost nobody on earth have ever seen one. I’ve only see a few partials in 60 years of amateur astronomy. Plus they don’t happen at the same time and they don’t affect anyone. A massive worldwide earthquake would throw up enough dust to darken all celestial objects and cause crops to fail with ensuing starvation. (It‘s what killed the dinosaurs you know). Now THAT would be a biblical event and it would fit the prophecy perfectly.
    I can see you buy into the “Left Behind” scenario, with the rapture, antichrist, New World Order, One-World Government, and the micro chip.
    All that is bogus made popular by the book whose author ADMITS HE MADE IT ALL UP!
    But that is another discussion for another day.
    Btw, there is not a 2000 gap in prophecy. Between Daniel and Revelation there is a continuous story dating from 500BC to the present. It is a story of 8 kingdoms (beasts) from Babylon thru Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, the Holy Roman Empire, the Vatican Empire (1929), the revived Roman empire (EU-2010) to a soon-to-come restored Holy Roman Empire. So there are NO blank periods in the prophecy, only blank minds that have not been able to understand the prophecy.
    
    Jim Giordano said this on June 16, 2014 at 11:50 am | Reply
    - i would agree with you, as I have made this point before. solar and lunar eclipses do not happen together and the scripture describes an even where they both turn dark at the same time.
      
      I would agree that there is something in the atmosphere that is affecting the visual observation of the sun and moon.
      
      with this said, it is also interesting that there will be this tetrad on feast days,,,,time will tell if there is significance to that as well.
      
      Marianne said this on June 16, 2014 at 11:58 am | Reply
      - I never said nothing will happen after the tetrads just that it will not be the start of the tribulation or the Second Coming. There are too many other things that have to happen first so it is simply too soon. But perhaps something big will happen that is not in the bible but somehow related to prophecy, or maybe a seal will open as we are getting close to the end so who knows what might occur. Maybe something important to do with Israel since they occur on Jewish holidays. I guess we’ll see pretty soon.
        
        Jim Giordano said this on June 17, 2014 at 2:43 am | Reply
    - Paul stated we will be caught up in the air when Christ calls his Church. It reads plainly there will be a raptured Church. Perhaps, just not when folks think.
      
      The man of sin is not the Pope. The man of sin will be worshiped as G-d or you can not buy or sell.
      
      I enjoy reading your posts Jim, but I do not think you are 100% correct.
      
      What do you think of the Sunni Caliphate? The King of the North written about, but not understood as Damascus has not been destroyed?
      
      Leatherneck said this on June 16, 2014 at 3:02 pm | Reply
      - I have been predicting the caliphate would be back for many years now. I believe that Gog is the future Caliph who will be located in Turkey (Magog) in Istanbul where his office was in 1935 when the Allies eliminated the office and created the modern middle east.
        As for the King of the North, I believe it will be the restored Holy Roman Empire. They will attack the King of the South, Iran and other Mideast oil producers when oil runs short and OPEC shifts their oil allocations from the EU to China, and the EU, led by Germany will attack in a blitzkrieg and take over the oil producers and surround Jerusalem, taking over the city as a base of operations which will be the desolation mentioned by Jesus. Also the time of the gentiles in Jerusalem and the fleeing of the Jews mentioned in prophecy.
        The destruction of Damascus could occur in WW3 or the war of Magog or even as a separate incident. Only time will tell on that.
        The pope is already worshipped as God – infallible. It is in his title which adds up to 666 in Roman numerals. Anyone can be a man of sin, but an infallible pope should not be, yet he leads the most apostate Christian church in the world. God MUST destroy the Catholic church before Christ returns. Otherwise Jesus will have to be the next pope.
        The churches must all be fixed. God does not care about punishing other religions. He must fix His own first. This is the theme of the Book of Revelation. There is no antichrist – the beast is a kingdom, the pope is the False Prophet, and Satan is himself. All must be destroyed. Islam will be in the same boat as Hindus and Buddhists etc. They can convert or die in the Lake of Fire. Sounds a little like Islam, eh? That will teach them a lesson! But that will happen at the end of the millennium not before.
        Also, Paul says we will be caught up in the air to meet Christ when He returns. The Second Coming. Not before. Call it a rapture if you want, but it is what it is. An early rapture makes no sense. First, why resurrect the dead first? They are already safe from the tribulation. And if the living are changed in spiritual bodies, why take them away? They would already be death-proof, so why not stay and preach for Jesus?
        An early rapture defies common logic. Nobody should be expecting it.
        I’m sure there will be many disappointed people in the near future though.
        
        Jim Giordano said this on June 17, 2014 at 3:12 am | Reply
The first Seal is Jesus the rider on the white horse, the same in Rev. 19, since Jesus would not wait 2000 years to begin opening the seals after holding the little book in chapter 5. Notice the bow and arrow that look like a cross, but the arrow has been shot giving Satan a deadly wound by the power of the cross for those in Christ. Antichrist doesn’t come on the scene until the end of the church age so it wouldn’t make sense to place the Antichrist at the first seal. Seals 2, 3 and 4 are general in nature depicting the past 20 centuries. 1/4 die due to these tragedies, but in the Great Tribulation 1/3 die in a very short period of time of 3 1/2 years that is full of detail and specifics in which chapters 12 to 19 give the details of the major points of the Tribulation’s 7 years from chapter 7 to 11.

We know The last seven of Daniel’s prophecy has not begun yet because no peace treaty has been put in place yet and because the first rapture “before the throne” (Rev. 7.9) according to readiness (Matt. 24.40-42, Luke 21.36, Rev. 3.10) has not occurred before the first trumpet of the Tribulation (8.7). What sets off the Tribulation is Satan’s reaction to the first rapture of overcomers. He knows his time is short once that happens.

Some try to apply Daniel’s final seven to when Jesus was on earth but that makes no sense because it violates Dan. 9.24 in which transgressions cease and all things are restored. Obviously that did not happen. Israel is still in transgressions rejecting their Messiah. “Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy” (v.24). The nations still war today and we continue to hear rumor of wars.

We know from the declaration to rebuild Jerusalem (Neh. 2.1ff) there would be seven sets of seven then another 62 sets of seven after which the Messiah would be cut off. We know there is to the day from 444 BC 173,880 days to March 28, 33 AD. This is Nisan 10 the first day of the 4 day inspection of the lamb: March 28, 29, 30, 31. Jesus died on the cross Friday April 1, 33 AD, Nisan 14, Passover, Gregorian. This is also the annual Sabbath. Furthermore, Friday is necessary for His death on the cross to fulfill the phrase “He rose on the 3rd day”. Jesus rose Sunday. If Jesus died on Thursday then Sunday would be a 4th day. If Jesus died on Wednesday, Sunday would be a 5th day. If Jesus died on Tues. Sunday would be a 6th day. Moreover, the women didn’t go to put spices on the body till Sunday, which is reasonable if Jesus died on Friday because Saturday was a Sabbath in which no work is to be done. But it wouldn’t be loving if Jesus died on Wed. or Thurs. to wait till Sunday to put spices on the body. What love is that? This is how you can know the unlovingness of someone who proposes this. There is something wrong at the core in their hearts reflecting strange and unloving beliefs.

Never on human record have we seen two earthquakes of this magnitude in 2010 and 2011. The rarest of all solar eclipses was Nov. 3, 2013 which was the 4th since Christ. And the rarest of all Red Blood Moon’s is the 2014/15 Tetrad 8th since Christ. It won’t happen again till 2582/83 but there is no solar eclipse attached in nearly 600 years. So we know these 3 events are with 100% certainty Rev. 6.12 which takes place shortly before the first rapture and Tribulation begin. The darkening of the sun and moon in Matt. 24 are at the end of the Tribulation and having nothing to do with Rev. 6.12 before the Tribulation. Think of the events before (Rev. 6.12, 7.9) and after (Rev. 11.19) as encapsulating the 7th Seal containing the 7 Trumpets of the Tribulation, and the 7 bowls of wrath are contained within the 7th trumpet.

If you would like to learn more about partial rapture that sets it off and causes Satan the great Restrainer to respond unleashing Antichrist please study partial rapture here,

The Partial Rapture Proof,
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Partial_rapture.htm

Troy Brooks said this on June 17, 2014 at 4:29 am | Reply
- Troy,
  You are the only person I’ve heard that believes the first horseman is Jesus and not a false Christ. And if the 2nd thru 4th seals are general in nature and don’t represent any particular events then we might as well forget the rest of prophecy since it could all be just small littlee events that happened with nobody noticing.
  And your choices of earthquakes are arbitrary. The recent Chilean quakes were worse than either of your selections. As an amateur geologist (120 units) I can tell you your assessment of earthquake history is far from correct.
  You need to re-study the book of Daniel. The 70 weeks DID end on time. Christ was cut off and the Jews failed to finish the transgression and at the stoning of Steven the 7 years of Christ‘s commission ended when the Jews rejected Christ and after that the gospel was preached to the gentiles instead of just the Jews. The so-called peace treaty was actually a covenant – the New Covenant of Christ, so it DID happen. The 70 weeks came in on time and under budget – just as you would expect from God. Otherwise all the other time frames given in Daniel and elsewhere would be open to reinterpretation and fudged to any time frame a person might want.
  As for the rapture, I have studied it in detail and while I started off believing it I ultimately discovered all the verses refer to the one and only Second Coming of Jesus. Nowhere does the bible say there will be a rapture 7 years before the Second Coming.
  It’s all just wishful thinking…
  
  Jim Giordano said this on June 17, 2014 at 8:31 am | Reply
Thanks for the response Jim.

I think the last kingdom of the ten toes of iron and clay is global. That will be the kingdom of the beast. Those ten kings will give their power to the lawless one who causes all to have a mark.

I realize you believe that is the Pope and Sunday worship.

A global tower of Babel is what I believe the Bible is telling us and I have read the book of Enoch.

For American sold out government helping the enemies of Israel, I believe we will be cursed. It will be painful too. Just as the innocent women and children across the globe have had to experience pain.

Peace.

Leatherneck said this on June 17, 2014 at 8:55 am | Reply
- I just can’t imagine a global system run by one man. I can’t fathom how such a thing could even happen. The world wants to kill one another, not get together and give allegiance to one man and then believe he is God. Just ten kingdoms for the entire world? And all give power to just one person? And chipping the entire world population and tracking every purchase is far to sci-fi to me, as an engineer and computer programmer. Too big a job and too hard to get permissions, maintain the system and prevent hacking. The banks won’t permit such a system as they want competition. World governments won’t give their power to any man, nor their financial systems.
  Even the author of the Left Behind books/movie never bothered to show how the world got to that condition, instead he starts there. Even he wasn’t clever enough to figure that out, but he never really believed his books in the first place – they were just a cool story.
  I am as you know a logical thinker and for the world to come together in such a manner is just illogical. And as many great scientists and theoreticians always say, the simplest explanation is usually the correct one.
  So I will remain very skeptical about the “Left Behind” scenario and all of its offshoots. I’m going to have to see a whole lot more happening than I do now before I even think about changing my view.
  Meanwhile, my scenario is already in place. Only a few simple events must happen to complete the prophecy (plus tribulation events of course) sso I’m sticking with what I can see before switching to a sci-fi fantasy any time soon.
  Bless
  
  Jim Giordano said this on June 17, 2014 at 12:27 pm | Reply
  - I respect your right to believe as you wish, but I would appreciate it if you would stop disrespecting mine. I have not read any left behind books. I have read the Bible and it reads one man, one last empire.
    
    So, here is what I see. The WTO is ten regions at present. Each region with one coin and one central bank gets the job done. All that would be needed is for G-d to throw Satan a bone to fulfill prophecy. The lie that misleads the elect.
    
    I do not know what it is, but I think it will be a counterfeit second coming of Christ.
    
    Later Jim,
    
    Leatherneck said this on June 18, 2014 at 12:13 am | Reply
    - from daniel 8
      
      23 “In the latter part of their reign, when rebels have become completely wicked, a fierce-looking king, a master of intrigue, will arise.
      
      24 He will become very strong, but not by his own power. He will cause astounding devastation and will succeed in whatever he does. He will destroy those who are mighty, the holy people.
      
      25 He will cause deceit to prosper, and he will consider himself superior. When they feel secure, he will destroy many and take his stand against the Prince of princes. Yet he will be destroyed, but not by human power.
      
      Marianne said this on June 18, 2014 at 12:16 am | Reply
      - AGAIN, OUT OF CONTEXT. BACK UP 2 VERSES:
        20 The two-horned ram that you saw represents the kings of Media and Persia. 21 The shaggy goat is the king of Greece, and the large horn between its eyes is the first king. 22 The four horns that replaced the one that was broken off represent four kingdoms that will emerge from his nation but will not have the same power.
        Daniel is describing the end of the Medo-Persian empire in which he was living. He says who the kings are – living at that time.
        You took them out of context and turned one into a modern-day antichrist. Not every line of prophecy is dual.
        
        Jim Giordano said this on June 18, 2014 at 11:33 am | Reply
        
        this empire still exists….and in the time of the end, someone from that ancient empire will rule again…that is what it says
        
        Marianne said this on June 18, 2014 at 12:46 pm | Reply
Wake up James.

“I just can’t imagine a global system run by one man. I can’t fathom how such a thing could even happen.”

The “one man” will be filled with Satan.

The man will not be applying limited human intelligence and a persuasive personality.

Unlike your logical, scientific mind with a dynamic personality, which looks for the simplest explanation for the correct answer – this man will be filled with one of the greatest minds created and a personality overflowing with pride, arrogance and contempt for mankind.

Satan already has in place demons and fallen angles identified as “principalities… powers…rulers of the darkness of this world…” (Ephesians 6).

Satan has a strategic plan and a system (Beast), which was established long ago in a galaxy far, far away. As Yoda would say, “Science fiction novel this is.”

Satan’s strategic plan is more complex than you can imagine. His influence “in” humans – intelligent people who hold influential positions around the world is not science fiction. It is spiritual warfare at the highest level.

Satan has many people who actually worship him. Those people are influenced by “powers of darkness”, working to advance Satan’s agenda over the centuries, in the past decade and today for his plan for tomorrow.

The people at the highest level of this world live for the pleasures of the world and want more. Satan provides and gets what he wants, advancing his strategic agenda day to day, FY to FY and century to century.

“And chipping the entire world population and tracking every purchase is far to sci-fi to me, as an engineer and computer programmer.”

The chip is ready. It is already operational in Europe.

The NSA has and is doing a very good job of tracking global information with an excuse: national defense and protecting the homeland.

Wells Fargo, B of A, Deutsche Bank Group, and other banks (even local savings and loans) track all financial/banking transactions by their “customers” no mater where those electronic financial transactions occur around the world.

When I go to an ATM – it is digitally recorded immediately and stored in a digital file.

James, they don’t keep paper records anymore. It is digitally recorded and retained, making a one world financial system easy to turn on and operate from multiple locations in a financial worldwide network.

“The banks won’t permit such a system as they want competition. World governments won’t give their power to any man, nor their financial systems.”

Who do you think is the Beast?

Maybe you don’t see but others do. Follow the money.

“I am as you know a logical thinker and for the world to come together in such a manner is just illogical. And as many great scientists and theoreticians always say, the simplest explanation is usually the correct one.”

Ya! You sure do and did accept the simplest explanation.

That is exactly what we did – acceptimg the simplest explanation.

Congradutions James! Join the human condition – blind, deaf and dumb.

Or maybe just asleep.

I think you watch to much TV.

The events of 9/11 were 13 years ago. Think how much future along the Beast is in creating a “New World Order” that can be directed by one man, filled with Satan?

If you want more “science and logic” – I’ll share it, bringing more questions than simple answers.

Blessings

DJ said this on June 17, 2014 at 6:28 pm | Reply
- The two beasts of Revelation are successive kingdoms, not people. They represent the Holy Roman Empire and the Vatican. If the mark of the beast is Sunday worship and not a banking chip, then the whole idea of a world banking system and the WTO is not a part of it and need not happen. Also, not a need for an antichrist to take over the earth – only for the pope to take over the worlds largest Christian church. And force his commandment breaking on his subjects.
  Now that seems far more possible than your alternative.
  And more logical.
  
  Jim Giordano said this on June 18, 2014 at 11:42 am | Reply
  - book of daniel tells us who the beasts are
    
    Marianne said this on June 18, 2014 at 12:44 pm | Reply
Jim Giordano,

Like I said it makes no sense the first horseman is Antichrist since Jesus would not wait 2000 years to begin opening the seals as He is holding the little book in Rev. 5 ready to be opened and as newly slain on the cross. God does not leave us empty handed. There is no reason for you think the rider on the white horse about the cross is any different than the rider on the white horse in Rev. 19 Jesus returning. The bow and arrow look like a cross but the cross has given Satan a deadly wound because the arrow has been shot. Further evidence for you to accept the 4 seals are history rather than future is that 1/4 died whereas in the Great Trib it is said 1/3 die. Thus indicates two different time periods. Is God the author of confusion? Over a long period 1/4 die to these plagues, but in the Great Tribulation which is 3 1/2 years literally 1/3 of people die due to nuclear holocaust — a very short period of time! There will be many false Christs culminating in the Antichrist who is considered the 1st beast. False Prophet is the 2nd beast. Satan is the dragon. Antichrist is addressed in Rev. 13 and 17. Neron Kaiser in Aramaic equals 666 who is Nero revived from the pit. He is the Antichrist. Satan has been restraining him which is why Satan is called the Restrainer, for one day he will step aside and unleash the Antichrist when the time is right for him to exploit the world. Satan does this because he knows his time is short and is putting his best tactic forward. The 1st seal is very specific. Who can pinpoint the events of seals 2,3,4 to one event as they match all the atrocities in the past centuries as they are so general in scope. They are so general in nature they depict all throughout the past 20 centuries. Whereas the Trumpets and bowls are very specific. A less assuming man would never put those atrocities all on just one event in the past 20 centuries.

It is a fact that 320,000 people died in the Haiti earthquake which is the second most deaths of any earthquake on human record. And you don’t think that is unique? You presented no earthquake to compare. And the Japan 2011 earthquake was the 4th greatest in magnitude of any earthquake on earth anywhere on record. Combined, year over year, this has never happened in the history of the human race. So we know it is the event described in Rev. 6.12 before the Tribulation starts with its first trumpet (8.7). It’s amazing how improbable this is but is not enough to convince a false Christian or someone who will never give his life to Christ. Add that to the Nov. 3, 2013 long H3 solar eclipse in Rev. 6.12 that follows, only the 4th time since Christ. And the feast Tetrad 2014/15, 8th time since Christ, and it won’t happen again till 2582/83 with no unique solar eclipse attached to it. Hello mcfly! Wake up O dead man Jim!

Of course there is a rapture. Read 1 Thess. 4.17, “shall be caught up together.” Of course there is a rapture before the Tribulation before the 1st trumpet (Rev. 8.7) and at the 7th trumpet as well. The 7th trumpet rapture and resurrection is 1 Thess. 4.14-18. Whereas the rapture before the Tribulation is seen “before the throne” (Rev. 7.9) in 3rd heaven before the 1st trumpet (8.7). Matt. 24.40-42 speaking to believers whose Lord is mentioned says there are those who are “taken” and those who are “left”. Both are saved. The left pass through the Tribulation, but the taken are taken before the Tribulation due to a condition. It says only if you are watchful will you be taken in Matt. 24.40-42. Are all Christians watchful? Of course not. Luke 21.36 says only if you are prayerful and watchful will you escape all these things that shall come to pass in the Tribulation. God can only make such a promise through rapture since He does not promise Christians in the Tribulation they will not be martyred; just as in the 2nd century Thyatira church period the martyrdom of saints was pervasive. And in Rev. 3.10 we read only if you keep the word of His patience will you be kept out of the hour of trial that is to come upon the whole world. Do all Christians keep the word of His patience? Of course not. Only those who overcometh. Now all Christians overcome but not at the same time. As T. Austin Sparks once wrote: “there are advanced parties and harbingers in every sphere” so is true of the rapture. The first rapture is a conditional rapture of martyrs the past 20 centuries (5th seal) and those who are raptured alive like an Enoch or an Elijah.

There was no 7 year covenant with Jesus when He was on earth. How silly! He ministered for 3 years then died on the cross. He spent 40 days with the Apostles after that. The end of transgressions in Israel did not ensue. They are still in sin and still reject their Messiah. So Dan. 9.24 is unfulfilled. There is remaining one last seven to be fulfilled. It is also 2,520 days like all the other sevens. It is fulfilled when Jesus returns. You worship a false Christ so you will reject this Jesus as you already admit. Your conscience is seared saying there has already been an end to transgressions even though the past 2000 years there has still been wars and rumors of wars. You’re a bad guy. “Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy” (Dan. 9.24). Sin is still pervasive! There has been no reconciliation for iniquity! Satan is still the god of this world. Everlasting righteousness of Jesus returning has not occurred. Don’t believe those who say He has returned. They are liars like their father Satan. The vision and prophecy remain unfulfilled. The most holy the 3rd Temple has not been anointed. The Temple will be cleansed after 2300 days (Dan. 8.14). There are 2300 days from Passover in 2023 to Tisha B’Av in 2029. This is crucial because Jesus returns to reign in the 3rd Temple, the very Jesus whom you reject as you worship a false Christ.

In the midst of the last seven or the 70th seven the Antichrist will break his covenant or peace treaty with Israel and the nations, and 2 Thess. 2.4 says he will erect himself in the 3rd Temple and claim to be God, but the 3rd Temple will not be destroyed when Israel is overrun by the nations (Rev. 11.2) for 42 months. This leaves 3 1/2 years for the Great Tribulation. In Rev. 9 we are told the first 5 months of the Great Trib nobody will be killed. Then there are 13 months to the 2nd woe or 6th trumpet and its events described in Rev. 9. Then follows the 24 months of the 7th trumpet or 3rd woe for a total of 42 months. These are future events coinciding with the 3 1/2 years of Daniel’s final seven. You need to read Daniel without the evil spirit in your spirit. But first before doing that, give your life to Christ then you will understand Scripture as dispensationalists.

Study the verses for partial rapture (don’t be lazy)….
http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Partial_rapture.htm

Troy Brooks said this on June 17, 2014 at 7:59 pm | Reply
- Let me just discuss the rapture, or lack thereof with you here.
  Using your “proof” in 1 Thes:
  1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
  New International Version (NIV)
  Believers Who Have Died
  
  13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15 According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.
  
  So when you look at the whole story and do not take verses out of context, we see that this refers to the Second Coming – at the last trump with the voice of the archangel on the Feast of Trumpets. The dead rise first – they will not be forgotten. This is the point Paul was trying to make to his followers – do not fear death – you will be given preferential treatment when Jesus returns to claim His kingdom. Then the living and the dead rise to meet Him. It was customary in bible times for entire cities to pour out the the gates of a city to greet their king upon his return.
  But what does it say next? Does it say that Jesus will return to heaven with these people? NO. Does it mention that Christ was returning 7 years early to save His people from injury or death during the coming tribulation? NO.
  All it says they they will be with Christ forever – meaning in His earthly kingdom. Anything beyond that is speculation and wishful thinking.
  Plus, why resurrect the dead now? They are resting (asleep) and are perfectly safe where they are. And to those who still believe the dead go to heaven when they die – Paul here strongly disagrees. The dead in Christ are all sleeping – in the grave.
  I can disprove any other verses you can come up with, just try me. I have already read every so-called proof of the rapture and they all go this same way. I used to believe, but after I could not prove it definitively (only if you pull verses out of context) I abandoned it years ago.
  But Satan is smart, as you said, and he can fool even the very elect. But he is going to have to come up with something far more substantial before I will be fooled.
  
  Jim Giordano said this on June 18, 2014 at 10:39 am | Reply
  - I think the saints will go through the tribulation as well, but then there is the question, what defines the tribulation ( seals, trumpets, vials, or part of them) and what is the last trump ( when he comes to get us).
    
    Marianne said this on June 18, 2014 at 10:44 am | Reply
  - Troy,
    As for debunking the 70th week of Daniel, it took reading a 50 letter-size page document 5 times before I full understood it and double-checked the math and scriptures, so don’t expect me to try to explain it here. Search out the topic for yourself and keep an open mind and perhaps you will be enlightened. I used to believe everything you said because I grew up on Jack Van Impe on TV, and he co-wrote the screenplay for the Left Behind movie. But after I looked into it further I discovered all the inaccuracies and that’s where I’m at today.
    Sorry, but I’m not going back to the “Left Behind” scenario unless it magically unfolds right in front of me.
    So far I see nothing but theories and innuendo, not proof.
    
    Jim Giordano said this on June 18, 2014 at 10:51 am | Reply
- Troy,
  So you believe that the antichrist will set himself up in a Jewish temple and claim to be God.
  Here is why that can not work.
  First of all, as an antichrist, he will claim, by definition, that Christ was not the son of God nor was He a deity of any kind.
  This is believed by most of the world, including, Muslims, Buddhists Hindus and Jews.
  So he must be from one of these faiths, by simple logic.
  So he can not be a false Christ described by Jesus as he rejects Christ in the first place, so he will not be christian.
  So if he claims to be God the father, he cannot be Buddhist or Hindi, and unless he claims to be Allah, he cannot be Muslim.
  Therefore he must be Jewish. BUT, the Jews know from the story of Moses and elsewhere that to see God is to die, so unless he will hide in a closet the whole time, that idea is ludicrous.
  So what is left?
  NOTHING!
  Therefore by a simple process of elimination, there will be no antichrist!
  There is a big difference between an antichrist and a false Christ.
  By his own title (Vicarius Filii Dei) – Substitute for the Son of God – every pope in history has been a false Christ. And their title adds up to 666.
  If you think that NERO will be resurrected by God to become the antichrist you are mistaken on many levels. That idea comes directly from the Catholic bible – the book of the whore of Babylon. It is very dangerous to hold to the teachings of the great apostate church in these end times – including Sunday worship and praying to graven images. And many others.
  So who do you expect the antichrist to be exactly?
  Inquiring minds want to know.
  
  Jim Giordano said this on June 18, 2014 at 12:08 pm | Reply
  - read the book of daniel for a description of him
    
    Marianne said this on June 18, 2014 at 12:43 pm | Reply
Study the 173,880 days from Nisan 1, 444 BC (Neh. 2.1) to March 28, 33 AD. Don’t be lazy.

http://www.raptureready.com/featured/ice/70-weeks-6.html

Troy Brooks said this on June 17, 2014 at 8:02 pm | Reply
Jim,

Some argue that according to I Thessalonians 4.15, the living “shall in no wise precede them who are fallen asleep” -The dead are resurrected at the seventh trumpet; and so timewise, rapture occurs after the Tribulation. Now if there is a first rapture, it will have to take place before the resurrection of the dead. But since this verse distinctly says “shall in no wise,” how then can rapture take place twice? Let me say in reply that it is most precious and significant to find in both verse 15 and verse 17 the qualifying clauses “we that are alive, that are left” – Now to be alive is obviously to be left on earth; why, then, is there this apparent unnecessary repetition? Because it implies that there are people who though alive yet have already gone ahead (that is, raptured) and therefore are no longer left on earth. Would Paul enlist himself among this class of people who are alive and are left? Not at all. He uses the word “we” only because he is speaking at that moment of writing, and the proof of this is that since Paul no longer lives today, he cannot be numbered among those who are left on earth. Our conclusion to all this is that the third school of interpretation seems to be the correct one – that is to say, that one group of believers will be raptured before the Tribulation while another group of believers will go through the Tribulation and be raptured afterwards.

Before the 1st trumpet of the Tribulation (8.7) indeed we see some raptured ahead of time “before the throne” (7.9). Whereas those raptured at the 7th trumpet at the end of the Tribulation are raptured not to 3rd heaven but to meet the Lord in the air (1 Thess. 4.14-18). Those resting and asleep are raptured at the 7th trumpet; whereas those raptured at the 1st trumpet are those who were accounted worthy to escape the hour of trial. First rapture is conditional upon a Christian’s good works even martyrdom. We see a first rapture in Matt. 24.40-42, Luke 21.36, Rev. 3.10. Such ones as well as martyrs during the Tribulation will return with Christ to reign over the nations (Jude 14,15; Rev. 2.26,27; 20.4-6) for 1000 years before the New City commences on the New Earth.

Thomas Ice got it right. We could know exactly when Jesus would be cut off all the way back in 5th century BC. There are 173,880 days from the declaration to rebuild the Temple and Jerusalem, Neh. 2.1 March 5, 444 BC Julian to the 1st day of the 4 day inspection of the lamb March 30, 33 AD. Jesus died on the cross April 3, 33 AD Friday, Nisan 14, Passover. The women did not wait a half a week to put spices on the body. What love is that? There is not a fulfillment of everlasting righteousness (Dan. 9.24) since Jesus has not returned. There are still wars and rumors of wars. Israel is still in transgressions. The final seven has yet to occur. Revelation talks about the 3 1/2 years of the Great Tribulation which commences after Antichrist breaks the peace treaty. Breaking it indicates the 3 1/2 years before the Great Tribulation. The 4 trumpets in Rev. 8 are the first half of the Tribulation. The 3 last trumpets are the second half: woe, woe, woe. Jesus died on the cross in the 1st Seal. Seals 2, 3 and 4 are general in scope in which 1/4 die the past 2000 years. Martyred saints are resurrected before the Tribulation in the 5th Seal and raptured alive are those overcomers ready to be received as an advanced party. The great earthquake, solar eclipse, tetrad is 2010-2015 in Rev. 6.12. The Tribulation begins with the 1st trumpet (8.7). A first rapture before that occurs “before the throne” (7.9) as we see saints in 3rd heaven. The book of Revelation is exceedingly easy to understand but not if you start from a false perspective, false faith and in a false Christ.

Antichrist comes from Rome; hence the revived Roman Empire today in the EU. Nero is from Rome. He is the most evil man in human history against the Church. Neron Kaiser in Greek = 666. He is revived by Satan from the pit who is given the keys (Rev. 9.1). And like all men appointed once to die, so he can’t die again. He will have amazing powers to be unable to die. The Two Witnesses Enoch and Elijah return to die, and resurrected 3 1/2 days after they go to rest.

The Bible talks about the Roman Catholic system as the great harlot of religious Rome that makes drunk the nations with the wine of the wrath of her fornications (Rev. 14.8). Rev. 17.16 says the Vatican will be nuked by a dirty bomb. Rev. 17 says the Antichrist is one of the 5 fallen Caesars that died horrible deaths, that he is not the 6th (Domitian) at the time of John’s writing. There will be a 7th that comes for a short while, dies, comes back to life, and in that life as the 8th he will claim to be God as confirmed by 2 Thess. 2.4. He will make people reject Christians. He is not a false Christ, but he is the Antichrist. Antichrist is against Christ whereas false Christ pretends to be Jesus with bizarre twists and turns, e.g. he might claim universalism is true while claiming Jesus is God at the same time.

The Pope can be considered worshiping a false Christ. God hates that system. There has never been a Pope alive who was born-again; so all Popes go to Hell. Distinguish the evils of religious Rome (Rev. 17) and political Rome (Rev. 18). Both will be destroyed in the Great Tribulation.

Hope that helps. You are 100% wrong.

Troy Brooks said this on June 18, 2014 at 9:49 pm | Reply
- Your logic is peccable! (That’s the opposite of impeccable).
  First of all, there was no punctuation in the original greek. It was inserted 1500 years later by bible translators. So the line reads:
  We that are alive that are left. Which would be better said, “We who are left alive” (when Christ returns). It is a simple statement, not a cleverly shrouded way of disguising a secret rapture.
  And here is more logic:
  Paul is talking to the faithful in Christ, not the wicked. Therefore these listeners would have been in the first rapture and would not be around to witness what Paul was describing. So why didn’t Paul simply tell them WHEN they would be raptured? Just say they would be taken away to heave before the tribulation even starts, so why even sweat the tribulation?
  And then there is the fact that God repeats himself all the time, whenever the topic warrants it. And the return of His son would warrant such repeating.
  This clever manipulation of scripture coupled with illogical and unwarranted assumptions is nothing more than a thin tissue of lies created by wishful thinkers and people dedicated to previously learned doctrines.
  If your concepts have to be proven in such a manner then you need to think again with an open mind and wonder why every so called proof must be twisted and filled with assumptions in order to make them work.
  Basically, you are putting words in God’s mouth. You are assuming He means something else – something you want to believe. I would never want to do that, so I must reject any attempts to do so.
  Now, you’ve done it again in Mat 24, 40-42. Back up to verse 20 to see what Matthew is talking about:
  30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth[c] will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
  This is clearly the Second Coming, not a secret rapture. Why? Because there is no further reference to the return of Christ in the book. If this was and early rapture/return, then where are the verses about the final return to take His kingdom and fight Armageddon?
  Do me a favor and show me a book in the bible that describes a rapture, the tribulation, then the Second Coming – all in order. Good luck with that. Why do you suppose that is?
  As for Luke and Rev 3, – the promise of protection, that will happen. I can’t say where, except it won’t be in heaven. Could be Petra, could be an ark. Could be Iron Man suits. No one knows. Why not? IT’S A SECRET!
  So since it is a secret, I wouldn’t guess even if I had one.
  On the other hand, I agree with your assessment of the Catholic church. But the actual NERO can’t be resurrected by Satan – he hasn’t the power. Otherwise he would resurrect Hitler and a million other evil people from the dawn of civilization. That is Catholic church BS, and yet you believe it. Are you joining the enemy?
  As I just proved, there can be no antichrist, only a corrupt beast church and its leader, the False Prophet.
  And speaking of ASSumptions, I no longer believe that Enoch and Elijah will be the two witnesses. Why? Just because they were transfigured? When has God ever recycled his prophets? Was Daniel a reincarnated Old Testament prophet born again or just a boy who God saw great possibilities in? The same is true for every prophet and I believe it will be true for the 2 witnesses. Why do you suppose the whole world will hate them? If they were truly Old Testament prophets and we recognized them as such, they would be revered by most people. But if they are just a couple of Joes from some little church (the remnant true church) preaching some rubbish like Sunday worship is a sin and offends God, even 99% of Christians would tell them to go to hell (which really doesn’t exist). With most people on this site expecting two Old Testament prophets, if two nobodies showed up they would all claim they were impostors. Would you?
  Something to think about, anyway.
  
  Jim Giordano said this on June 19, 2014 at 8:41 am | Reply
I always thought Jack Van Impe was crazy and in the G-d business.

I don’t see how the Pope can be the Anti-Christ as he has no real global military power. I do not fear him.

We are seeing something G-d is allowing Satan to do within this world system in Iraq and Syria. This Sunni Caliphate will have no choice but to attack Assad. With Russia tied up in Ukraine and Iran moving resources to the Shia in Iraq, we might see the destruction of Damascus as Assad goes down swinging.

Then, we would have the king of the North. Oil threatened and a huge regional war that sets up the last few Bible prophecies before Christ reins on earth.

The lie that misleads even the elect. What is it? I don’t think it is Sunday worship.

Leatherneck said this on June 19, 2014 at 4:38 am | Reply
- Jack rarely gets anything right, but after 40 years he finally realized that the pope is the False Prophet.
  But he still believes in the rapture, the New World Order, One-World Government run by a Muslim antichrist (Obama), a One world Currency and a chip in the hand as the mark of the beast. If you believe in any of that you can join him in crazyville as far as I’m concerned.
  I don’t think that these Muslim fanatics can turn Damascus into a “ruinous heap” exactly. I think that will take nukes in WW3. And I think the caliphate will pertain to the war of Magao, and according to Ezekiel that will happen after the Second Coming, but I can’t say how long, only the order of things assuming Ezekiel is in chronological order. Otherwise all bets are off.
  If Syria will be the King of the North, then who will they attack? Who is the King of the South?
  But they are from a different prophecy. You can’t mix Daniel with Ezekiel into the same war.
  I guess we will soon see how this all plays out.
  Bless
  
  Jim Giordano said this on June 19, 2014 at 9:27 am | Reply
- some of my early thoughts
  
  Click to access 4th-beast-web-4-mt.pdf
  
  Marianne said this on June 19, 2014 at 11:21 am | Reply
According to Revelation 17 and 18 the Roman Catholic Church experiences tremendous growth as we have already seen, far exceeding that of the past. Her influence will be enormous. But when Antichrist shall arise and set up his image as an object of worship, he with his ten subordinate kings shall destroy the Roman Church with a nuclear dirty bomb in the Vatican (Rev. 17.16). Nevertheless, with the passing of Rome religious, Rome political will still continue. She will make the Mediterranean Sea a center of her influence as the European Union now with 28 nations. Three and a half years later, God will destroy Rome political.

Troy Brooks said this on June 19, 2014 at 5:29 am | Reply
- true, it does say that the beast will kill the “harlot”
  
  Marianne said this on June 19, 2014 at 11:19 am | Reply
17.8 The angel explains to John that the beast he saw has four stages of history; namely, the beast (1) was, (2) is not, (3) is about to come out of the abyss, and (4) will go into perdition.

In the book of Revelation this beast, as has been said, represents Antichrist as well as the Roman Empire. In this connection, though, it points to a man, not to a state. The reasons for this view are as follows:

(1) This beast “was”—How then can we say that the Roman Empire once existed earlier prior to the time of John?

(2) The beast “is not”—Yet neither can we say that the Roman Empire did not exist at John’s time.

(3) The beast “is about to come up out of the abyss”—Abyss is the place where the spirits are imprisoned. How can we therefore say that the Roman Empire is about to come out of the abyss?

(4) The beast is “to go into perdition”—How, moreover, can we say that the political entity known as the Roman Empire will go into hell in the future?

Since, from this reasoning, this beast cannot apply to the Roman Empire, religious or political, it must have reference to Antichrist. “Was” shows that before the time of John there was such a person who once lived on earth.

“Is not” indicates that at John’s time this man is not in the world since he must have died. The phrase “is not” is also used in Genesis 42.36-38 to indicate death.

“Is about to come up out of the abyss” reveals that he is now in the abyss but will come out of it, that is to say, he will be resuscitated.

“Go into perdition” discloses that he will not live forever on earth, neither can he rule forever, because his destiny will be that of being cast into the lake of fire (19.20, 20.10).

His being “was, and is not, and is about to come” is a clever counterfeiting of God “who is and who was and who is to come” (cf. 1.4,8; 4.8).

“And they that dwell on the earth shall wonder”—And this wonderment will eventually lead them to worship the beast (13.12).

Troy Brooks said this on June 19, 2014 at 5:33 am | Reply
- Again, more incorrect assumptions.
  You forget that John was taken up (to somewhere) and shown visions of what would soon came to pass. (Soon to us is not nearly the same as soon to God).
  John, at the time of the verse, was not back in Patmos in 95 AD. He was far in the future describing a series of events. So you must put yourself into that time frame in order to understand the reference.
  Here in a nutshell is how I understand it.
  I Daniel he describes the end of the Roman empire as horns. 10 of them (10 countries in Europe) plus a “little horn that was more stout than its fellows and spoke great words (blasphemy) – a religious power, clearly the Vatican.
  In rev, John describes that the first beast (Holy Roman Empire) has one of its heads (horns) wounded as to death. At the end of the Holy Roman Empire Napoleon captures the pope in an attempt to put the Vatican out of commission. He also ended the Holy Roman Empire – he was the last Holy Roman Emperor.
  The second beast of Revelation is the Vatican, who was restored to a kingdom in 1929. The deadly wound was healed. The beast that was, then was not, and now is.
  If the beast is/will be a man, how will one of his many heads be wounded, as many people think? Surely if the antichrist is alive right now, all we need to do is look for a many headed man and we will have our culprit.
  So unless you severly edit the bible, the beast is a man theory is not possible.
  But bringing a Roman emperor back to life? No way. God would not allow it, and He would have to do it.
  Bad logic. Ludicrous assumptions.
  
  Jim Giordano said this on June 19, 2014 at 9:03 am | Reply
  - You assume to much. I don’t think the Vatican is the little horn. Then, none of your other assumptions would be correct.
    
    The false prophet will bring fire down from the sky to mislead many. All will not be able to buy or sell except those who have the mark. Swearing an oath to the beast gets you the ability to buy and sell.
    
    The two witnesses preach for 3.5 years then the beast murders them. They then lie in the street for 3.5 days until G-d takes them home.
    
    If you are correct Jim, what is the hold up? Christ should be here ruling by now. How do you get away from what is written will happen? It is as if you just focus on a few lines and ignore the rest.
    
    The Bible reads what I have posted. I do not know the timeline. But, Damascus could be destroyed by Assad as he goes down fighting. Chemical weapons with large explosions would do it.
    
    King of the North could be what we are seeing now. The King of the South could be Egypt, North Africa, Algeria and Libya.
    
    Leatherneck said this on June 19, 2014 at 10:19 am | Reply
    - There is no hold up as far as I’M CONCERNED. I BELIEVE THE SECOND COMING WILL NOT BE UNTIL 2031 – 2 MILLENNIA from the time He left. There is plenty of time for all the signs to occur. You are the impatient one – trying to see fulfillment in current events – perhaps making a mountain out of a molehill.
      I GAVE UP ON THAT YEARS AGO. SO MANY PEOPLE LOOK AT WORLD EVENTS and try their best to tie them into bible prophecy. They all wish that Jesus could return tomorrow, which would be nice, but not likely. First they thought Ukraine would start WW3 and Russia would be the King of the North (like Jack Van Impe) and now it is Syria or Iraq, and there is always Iran, N. Korea and so forth. But I prefer to wait. Wars are far too common (like eclipses) to make any rash assumptions, so I remain, as always, skeptical.
      
      Jim Giordano said this on June 19, 2014 at 10:50 am | Reply
      - hi jim
        
        remember the bible is based on lunar years, not solar years.
        
        2000 solar years is 1972 lunar years… so add 1972 lunar years to 30-31 AD and you get 2012-2013
        
        so we are actually overdue
        
        Marianne said this on June 19, 2014 at 11:56 am | Reply
        
        Prophecy does not seem to work by the Jewish calendar. Perhaps God knew that the world would be using actual years. Even the Jews use leap years or else there would be no spring/fall feasts since they would cycle around the seasons in quick order.
        All the prophecies of Daniel have worked out to be solar years so there is no reason to think it will change all of a sudden.
        As for being overdue, if God wanted it to happen when you claim, it would have happened. So do you think the magic time frame is 2 millennia plus a dozen or so years? Close enough for government work maybe but not for God. This alone should let you know how God counts years in prophecy.
        
        Jim Giordano said this on June 19, 2014 at 12:27 pm | Reply
        
        that is an amazing statement…god does not follow his own calendar…
        
        when did you decide that?
        
        you have changed God’s mind for him
        
        Marianne said this on June 19, 2014 at 1:23 pm | Reply
        
        Even the ancient Jews didn’t follow God’s calendar. They added their own version of leap years to keep the calendar in tune with the earth. And God knows the difference between 12 Jewish months and an actual year. You can prove this by looking at fulfilled prophecy. When God says year (or Daniel says days), it is understood to be solar years, which everyone understands all over the world.
        Otherwise the prophecy about Jesus would have been off by over 15 years. So maybe he was not the real messiah, if you go by your theory.
        Think about it…
        
        Jim Giordano said this on June 19, 2014 at 6:44 pm | Reply
        
        ok we don’t need to care about God’s calender since he does not use it either…..(taunt)
        
        Marianne said this on June 19, 2014 at 9:16 pm | Reply
        
        Good. Now we’re on the same page. 🙂
        
        Jim Giordano said this on June 19, 2014 at 9:41 pm
        
        that was sarcasm…no you and I are NOT on the same page, but you are entitled to your opinion
        
        Marianne said this on June 19, 2014 at 9:47 pm | Reply
        
        Seems you missed MY sarcasm and took me seriously.
        We won’t be on the same page until you see for yourself how prophecy unfolds.
        How’s that Nibiru thing working for ya?
        🙂
        
        Jim Giordano said this on June 19, 2014 at 11:13 pm
        
        nibiru is on its way in, according to reports
        
        Marianne said this on June 20, 2014 at 1:04 am | Reply
      - I’m cool with that Jim.
        
        Leatherneck said this on June 20, 2014 at 2:29 pm | Reply
  - here is a map of the ancient roman empire…notice that it shows only PART of Europe and much of middle east and the top of africa….which today, is mostly Islamic
    
    Marianne said this on June 19, 2014 at 12:02 pm | Reply
    - Here isthe problem with your thought process:
      I believe the 2-part story from Daniel thru Revelation covers the plight of God’s people from Babylon (Head of the statue) to the end times. The first four controlled the Jews but when the church changed to Christianity the story follows the universal church (Roman Catholic Church) which was and still is controlled by the Vatican. But that church is now a whore and must be destroyed along with its daughters. Christ returns to strike the toes and destroy the apostate pagan Babylonian practices before taking His earthly throne. In any case, the Muslim regions of the Roman empire are not necessary in the telling of the story. It only involves the change from the Roman empire to the Holy Roman Empire.
      THIS WILL HAPPEN! And that is the theme of the Book of Revelation. It has nothing to do with Islam or any other religion. God is only concerned with His church. Read the Old Testament. All sorts of punishments – TO HIS OWN PEOPLE!
      The mark of the beast will be the final test. Will you follow His commandments or not? That is the simple question that everyone must decide on.
      Or will you just sit back and wait for a rapture? Or just watch as God destroys Islam? Will you go to church every Sunday and pray for these things to happen – like a good Christian?
      To me the prophecy is simple and virtually complete.
      And simple is always better than complicated in my opinion.
      
      Jim Giordano said this on June 19, 2014 at 1:03 pm | Reply
      - the catholic church did not exist before John, or during the time of John…so it does not match the “was” and “is” criteria..
        
        the pope / vatican may be the false prophet or harlot , but not the beast
        
        Marianne said this on June 19, 2014 at 1:20 pm | Reply
        
        The Catholic church was future prophecy. John is not describing things during his own lifetime so the is, was, will be etc, it all refers to a future time. Until you understand that you will always be lost in the past.
        
        Jim Giordano said this on June 19, 2014 at 6:31 pm | Reply
- here some of my early thoughts
  
  Click to access 4th-beast-web-4-mt.pdf
  
  Marianne said this on June 19, 2014 at 11:17 am | Reply
For Marianne, from above.
So now you think Nibiru is “coming in?” I thought it was orbiting close to the sun, visible at sunrise or sunset. Now it is out there, coming in? What the heck kind of orbit is this thing in?
And what about it being below the south pole a year ago? Is it still hiding down there? It seems to be everywhere all the time. And still no reports from observatories – only YouTube videos.
You have been claiming it is near for years now. All your projected arrival dates have proven false. How long will you follow the You Tube idiots? Probably just as long as you will follow the “Left Behind” scenario.
You will give up on Nibiru eventually… Trust me.

Jim Giordano said this on June 20, 2014 at 1:30 am | Reply
- I just report stuff… you don’t have to believe nibiru or god’s calendar.
  
  it is “coming in” because it is in an orbit around the sun, and the path includes a space between the sun and earth…then it goes back out again….
  
  Marianne said this on June 20, 2014 at 2:04 am | Reply
  - Then you don’t believe in the laws of physics. The closer an object is to the sun, the faster it must move. Any object rounding the sun will reach the earth’s orbit in less than three months. Comets do it all the time. Even a spaceship would do the same. But Nibiru has been there for years now and doesn’t appear to be moving. Surely such a slow-moving object would be discovered by astronomers by now, and not just photographers pointing their cameras into the sun.
    You don’t understand astronomy, nor photography yet you put your godly trust in the hands of You Tube idiots who are continually proved as hoaxers. You should know better than to be fooled by such people. I can see how so many people will follow the beast while they wait for something else to happen that never will.
    You’re in good company, anyway.
    
    Jim Giordano said this on June 20, 2014 at 2:34 am | Reply
    - first it had to come near the sun, then it has to pass the sun, then it has to leave the sun, then it passes by us, then it goes back out, and passes the sun again.
      
      it is a 3600 year orbit….there is no hurry
      
      Marianne said this on June 20, 2014 at 7:48 am | Reply
      - But here is the problem, since Nibiru is right near the sun, its orbital speed must be as fast or faster than the planet mercury. Mercury’s orbital speed is 107.7 thousand miles per hour. Since earth is about 100 million miles away it must reach us in about 100,000,000 miles divided by about 100,000 miles per hour or 1000 hours, or about 42 days.
        You seem to think it travels at the same speed throughout its orbit, but it would only travel slowly when it is far from the sun. This is Kepler’s law and it is a precise mathematical formula that you can’t fudge or simply ignore or wish it into the corn field.
        You can’t seem to deal with math and science very well or you would have checked on it years ago.
        But you are too in love with the idea to try to test it.
        Wishing just isn’t going to make it happen. You need to take your head out of the sands of YouTube and wake up and smell the coffee:
        Nibiru is just a big fat hoax!
        So there!
        Here is some reading for you:
        http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/orbital.htm
        
        Jim Giordano said this on June 20, 2014 at 8:33 am | Reply
        
        maybe it is true, maybe it isnt. the bible says wormwood is coming….so I am waiting.
        
        it is also logic that as an object APPROACHES the sun it speeds up….. and as it LEAVES the sun it has a hard time and slows down…it has to get away from the pull of the sun
        
        we (other planets in solar system) all travel at the same speed around the sun because we are at about the same distance from it throughout our orbit.
        
        this is supposed to be a very different orbit…..it comes from way out, , then approaches sun, then has to travel past it, then moves away from it, past us, then back toward the sun, then goes way back out again….the speeds at each location would be logically different, as the distances from the sun would vary
        
        Marianne said this on June 20, 2014 at 12:42 pm | Reply
        
        Rev 6, 10 And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as if it were a lamp, and it fell upon a third part of the rivers and upon the fountains of waters;
        11 and the name of the star is called Wormwood. And a third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died from the waters, because they were made bitter.
        This does not sound like a planet four times the size of the earth. It is clearly a meteor fall, but nothing like a planet. In fact, if Nibiru were to strike the earth WE would be the star with a flaming tale falling thru the atmosphere of Nibiru.
        So I can‘t fathom why you are so convinced that something like Nibiru might fit the prophecy.
        As for trying to fudge the speed of Nibiru, here is the bottom line. As long as it is closer to the sun than the earth it must travel slower than the earth or else it will never escape the suns gravity and will be drawn into the sun.
        So, since the speed of the earth is 67,000 mph. and the distance to the sun is still 93,000,000 miles, even if Nibiru could somehow break Kepler’s law and move only as fast as the earth, it would get here in 58 days. And yet after 2 years it has never got close enough to be seen by astronomers. If you believe in math and physics rather than magic, then you must admit that something just doesn’t add up.
        So you are wrong on both counts. You may as well be claiming the beast- antichrist will have seven actual heads or that the city of Babylon will actually be completely rebuilt only to be destroyed by God. Some things just don’t make much sense, and Nibiru is one of them.
        Big time.
        
        Jim Giordano said this on June 21, 2014 at 7:49 am | Reply
        
        nibiru is surrounded by an asteroid / meteor cloud….wormwood might come from that…I am just waiting….and God controls the speed, not the sun
        
        Marianne said this on June 21, 2014 at 10:48 am | Reply
        
        Maybe God IS controlling the speed, and maybe he is hiding from the public eye.
        But if that is the case, He might as well just create wormwood from scratch at the last second.
        That would be far more likely that changing the laws of physics and creating an invisibility cloak.
        You are making the whole thing way to complicated and giving too much credit to the ancient Sumarians for knowing bible prophecy. And they were referring to Jupiter anyway, so the whole Nibiru concept is pagan. Part of Babylon. Careful in what you believe in and what you believe to be biblical.
        
        Jim Giordano said this on June 21, 2014 at 11:05 am | Reply
        
        bible says there is a big rock coming out of the sky….so I am waiting
        
        Marianne said this on June 21, 2014 at 11:44 am
The 7 heads are the seven hills of Rome of the EU, but also the 7 individuals, of which Rev. 17 says 5 are fallen. Only 5 of the 12 Roman Caesars at the time of John’s writing had died horrific deaths. He was not the 6th Domitian, but comes in the 7th who appears to die receiving a deadly wound, comes back to life as the 8th the Antichrist Neron Kaiser = 666. Revelation from the 5th Seal on is the future as of today. John is being spoken to things about his present day too such as the 7 churches and how they foretell the 7 church periods. Likewise when speaking of the 6th who is not the Antichrist we can understand that Domitian was not the Antichrist. Even scholars who wrote after 95 AD made comments that this reference was pointing out that Domitian was not the Antichrist. The 10 kings in the future are leaders of the European Union which is the revived Roman Empire. Various ways have been put forth who the 10 kings are such as the G-10 rulers, 10 bankers of the Club of Rome or the 10 initial countries of the EU with their kings established when Prince William was born in 1982. I am not sure which 10 kings are the 10 kings yet referred to but they are more clearly discovered as the Euro strengthens and its powerful reach is extended having the highest GDP on the planet even more than USA. The 3 horns that befall to the little horn is simply 3 leaders of 3 nations that he overruns. This could be Great Britain along with southern Ireland and its constituent parts that combine from the north at the impetus of the Antichrist. It could be 3 nations that default on their debts and some arrangement is made, e.g. Greece, Italy, Ireland. Lots of possibilities. It will be made more clear when we approach the Tribulation and enter in whosoever is not raptured beforehand.

The 1st beats is definitely a person which shows you are way off.

13.12 This second beast works by means of the authority of the first beast. As the Holy Spirit is the executor as well as the power in the Godhead, so the false prophet is the executor and the power of the trio of evil. “To worship” here is compulsory, unlike that mentioned in 13.4 which is voluntary.

There are many evidences to link the first beast with the revitalization of Nero. This second beast may very well be the return from the dead of the betrayer Judas. Acts 1.20, Psalm 69.25 and Psalm 109.8 all point to Judas, for Acts 1.20 quotes from Psalms 69 and 109. Psalm 109.6 declares: “Let Satan stand at his right hand” (mg.)—This is yet to be fulfilled. At the time of Christ, Satan entered into the heart of Judas; but not until the time of Revelation 13.12 will Satan stand at his right hand. We are also told in Acts 1: “that he might go to his own place” (v.25). Concerning other individuals the Scriptures always say he is “gathered to his own people” or that “he is gone down into sheol”; but in the case of Judas we are told that “he might go to his own place”—as though he has a special place set aside for his use. In the entire New Testament the term “son of perdition” is only used twice: one is found in John 17.12 which distinctly points to Judas, and the other is found in 2 Thessalonians 2.3 which alludes to Antichrist. If the first beast is Antichrist, the son of perdition, who else can be the second beast except Judas who also is called the son of perdition? In John 6 the Lord is recorded as calling Judas “a devil” (v.70). So then, who but Judas can rank among the trio of evil?

I have a long list of points showing the 1st beast and 2nd beast are two individuals but I didn’t want to throw it all at you at once.

Just know you are deceived and worship a false Christ because there are still wars and rumors of wars, thus proving, everlasting righteousness has not been attained.

“And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season” (Rev. 20.3).

The nations are still deceived. Satan is still the god of this world. The millennial kingdom has not started yet. It is 1000 years.

Troy Brooks said this on June 20, 2014 at 6:50 am | Reply
- So tell me, when Nero and Judas are resurrected will the whole world know who they were? And if Nero claims to be God, that makes him a false Christ, not antichrist, and why would Judas force the world to worship Nero? And why does he have the feet of a bear, look like a leopard and have the mouth of a lion? These refer to the beasts of Daniel, which were definitely kingdoms. So why change everything in John’s vision?
  Also, you claim nero is the first beast and Judas is the second. Then you indicate how Nero’s title adds up perfectly to 666, but that is the number of the second beast – Judas. So show us exactly how that will work and in which language.
  And where does it say that the seven heads are the seven mountains and also seven emperors, but only the ones who died a horrific death?
  And who is the little horn? It plucks up three nations by the roots. Defaulting on some loans is not the same as utter destruction.
  But I guess you’re not really worrying about any of this. After all, you won’t be here to see any of it. Nothing Jesus told his elect to watch for will ever be seen by those elect.
  Funny He never told them that.
  
  Jim Giordano said this on June 20, 2014 at 8:03 am | Reply
  - question…how does the revived roman empire, which with you consists of many countries never in the roman empire to begin with……have feet of a bear, look like a leopard, and have the mouth of a lion.??
    
    the babylonians were represented by the lion, greeks by the leopard and medo persians by the bear.
    
    oops…none of them are the roman empire…so now what?
    
    they are too many islamic nations that you have to get rid of to get your revived roman empire….
    
    Marianne said this on June 20, 2014 at 12:46 pm | Reply
    - The verse you quote was referring to the Holy Roman Empire, (538-1798) not the revived Holy Roman Empire.
      John was already in the Roman empire which Daniel called a beast, not an animal, so saying the beast looked like a beast and 3 animals would be confusing.
      The reasons John mentioned the prior kingdoms as animal was twofold.
      First, it linked his beasts to those of Daniel so we know without a doubt that John’s story was a continuation of Daniel’s.
      Secondly, it was making a religious point – that the religion of the Holy Roman Empire would contain elements of the Greek, Persian and Babylonian pagan religions. And that is why the Catholic church is called Babylon and why it must be destroyed.
      The revived Roman empire is the EU, which currently has no Muslim nations as members, but the tribulation is not here yet and the numbers may change. Also the nations of Europe have had their borders change many times so we can’t expect the original nations of Europe it be the same at the beginning and end of the prophecy. The same can be said of the Islamic nations most of which didn’t exist until after WW1.
      I’m sure God will prove correct in the end.
      
      Jim Giordano said this on June 23, 2014 at 3:21 am | Reply
      - the kingdoms were physical and had exact geographical locations…look up maps and put them together, and you have the 4th beast
        
        Marianne said this on June 23, 2014 at 10:45 am | Reply
Jim,

When Nero is resurrected out of the pit he won’t pose as Christ but he will be Antichrist and claim to be God against Jesus. Judas is like a military leader defending his leader Nero. Rev. 17 says the 7 heads are the 7 hills of Rome and as individuals 7 leaders, of which 5 are fallen Caesars. This is a historical fact. The 6th is Domitian at the time of John’s writing, the 7th will come a short while, receive a deadly wound, and be reanimated as the 8th. The 8th is Antichrist. The world wonders how he could recover from a deadly wound as the 7th, but he does, because we are appointed once to die so he can’t die ever again. I can see he has the power to inhabit a body like demons do to come out of the pit. The statue does represent the 4 kingdoms. The 10 toes like the 10 horns or 10 kings on the 7 heads, of which the little horn Antichrist takes over 3. You could consider this the G-7 or 10 bankers of Club of Rome that own the Federal Reserve and print themselves as much money as they like to enrich themselves, massively widening the disparity between the rich and poor. You’re confusing the statue with Antichrist. The statue is not Antichrist but the 4 kingdoms. The revived Roman Empire will be the last centered on the 7 hilled city of Rome. It currently has 28 nations in the EU even bigger than the Roman Empire. The number of the first beast is 666 which is Nero. Neron Kaiser in Greek = 666. Check it out (see chart at the bottom).

http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/satanstrinity.htm

The 5 fallen in Rev. 17 indicate unpleasant deaths. Go to wiki for the Caesars and see, indeed, there were 5 that were murdered or committed suicide. The others did not of the 12 up to the time of Domitian.

Rev. 17 says the 7 heads are two things: the 7 individual leaders from Rome and the 7 hilled city. They are not 7 consecutive nations as that does not agree with the statue of 4 nations.

“And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth” (Rev. 17.9).

The Roman Catholic Church sits on the city and makes the Vatican her center. Popery is a lie. She makes drunk the nations with the wine of the wrath of her fornications (Rev. 14.8). Her and Hitler got along great. But God makes Jerusalem and the 3rd Temple His center from where He will reign for 1000 years on earth when He returns. You reject this Jesus so you will go to Hell.

Who goes through the Tribulation? The unsaved of course. But also Christians who do not keep the word of His patience, are not watchful and prayerful and do not keep the conduct of Matt. 5-7 to escape the hour of trial that is to come upon the whole world during the 7 year Tribulation, Daniel’s final seven (Matt. 24.40-42, Luke 21.36, Rev. 3.10).

Remember, I believe in partial rapture so I accept a first rapture according to readiness “before the throne” (7.9) before the 1st trumpet of the Tribulation (8.7) begins, and a general rapture and resurrection (1 Thess. 4.14-18, Rev. 11.15) at the last trumpet before the bowls of wrath.

The Great Trib is 3 1/2 years or 42 months. Rev. 9 says the 1st woe or 5th trumpet is 5 months. People don’t die yet at that time. The 2nd woe or 6th trumpet it says is 13 months when people start to die. That leaves 24 months for the 3rd woe or 7th trumpet for a total of 42 months.

Troy Brooks said this on June 20, 2014 at 6:42 pm | Reply
- Troy, as I explained above, there will be no antichrist, and I’ve said the statue represent kingdoms – same as the beasts of Revelation, so they are not individuals.
  The number of the second beast is 666, not the first beast, so you’ve got that backwards. The first beast is gone and replaced by the second. They are not present at the same time.
  Your whole explanation of the Roman emperors is superfluous. All it attempts to do is pick someone who would be resurrected to be antichrist. But why resurrect someone? Why not have Satan take over someone new? What is the difference? And will he be resurrected as an infant or come to life as an adult right on cue for the tribulation? It‘s is silly, really and is only considered because it is possible to give Nero a title that adds to 666 in Greek. And how do you get that the word fallen indicates an unpleasant death? Jesus told His disciples the “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep.” meaning he had died. So it seem, as far as Jesus is concerned, the opposite of what you have assumed is true.
  You only make the assumption because you need to fudge history to make it all fit. And you don’t even have the right beast!
  You do have the right idea on the Catholic church but I fear you have bought into the “Left Behind” scenario with an antichrist, New World Order, one-world monetary system, and a chip in everyone’s hand. Also not just one rapture, but two! That sure will be a busy prophetic schedule.
  Well, all I can say is I’ll keep an eye peeled for any of this to happen.
  But I’m not very optimistic.
  
  Jim Giordano said this on June 21, 2014 at 8:35 am | Reply
- I agree with a few things you mentioned but that whole NERO thing comes right out of my Catholic bible. No one will resurrect NERO for some nefarious purpose. God does not recycle people. The five fallen king are not people but kingdoms. They are the kingdoms mentioned in Daniel and Revelation starting with Babylon. We are now in the 6th and 7th kingdoms with one more to go. If you don’t know what the 8th kingdom will be you will fail to recognize the first seal. But I’m sure you think you know what to look for, so wait and see what happens.
  When you get lost, get back to me.
  
  Jim Giordano said this on October 9, 2015 at 9:52 am | Reply
James and Marianne,

Jezebel is a demonic spirit: witchcraft, control, manipulation, seduction.

Well it sure seems easy to comprehend Jezebel within Heaven Awaits.

Once we pass that topic – it seems discernment goes “blank” or flat-lined” on any other spiritual subject matter.

I wonder why?

Nibi is a Babylonian, governing a pathway into “darkness” and it not a planet.

Nibiru, in Babylonian Astronomy translates to “Planet of Crossing” or “Point of Transition”.

“The establishment of the Nibiru point is described in tablet 5 of the Enuma Elish. Its cuneiform sign was often a cross, or various winged disc.

As the highest point in the paths of the planets, Nibiru was considered the seat of the summus deus who pastures the stars like sheep, in Babylon identified with Marduk (demon of great power in Satan’s kingdom).

This interpretation of Marduk as the ruler of the cosmos was identified as an early monotheist tendency in Babylonian religion by Alfred Jeremias.”

http://www.kenyan2013.com/2012/03/25/earth-to-collide-with-nibiru-on-july-21-2013/

Seem Nibi was to have arrived already (July, 2013).

The original text tells us the reality of Nibiru:

“The stars of heaven, let him [Nibiru] set their course; let him shepherd all the gods like sheep” (Enuma Elish, Tablet VII lines 126-127).

Wormwood is not a Planet or a Star or an asteroid.

Wormwood is a demonic spirit: bitterness.

Wormwood is described within these passages:

Lamentations 3:5,19
Amos 5:7 6:12
Hebrews 12:15

“Therefore thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel: Behold, I will feed them, even this people, with wormwood and give them bitter and poisonous water to drink. I will scatter them also among nations that neither they nor their fathers have known, and I will send the sword among them and after them until I have consumed them” (Jeremiah 9:12-16).

“…so that there may not be among you man or woman or family or tribe, whose heart turns away today from the Lord our God, to go and serve the gods of these nations, and that there may not be among you a root bearing bitterness or wormwood; and so it may not happen, when he hears the words of this curse, that he blesses himself in his heart, saying, ‘I shall have peace, even though I follow the dictates of my heart’—as though the drunkard could be included with the sober” (Deut. 29:15-19,NKJV).

Wormwood brings destruction but not by some cosmic, planetary creation.

“My son, pay attention to my wisdom;
Lend your ear to my understanding,
That you may preserve discretion,
And your lips may keep knowledge.
For the lips of an immoral woman drip honey,
And her mouth is smoother than oil;
But in the end she is bitter as wormwood,
Sharp as a two-edged sword.
Her feet go down to death,
Her steps lay hold of hell.
Lest you ponder her path of life—
Her ways are unstable;
You do not know them” (Proverbs 5:1-6, NKJV).

Leviathan is a demonic power:

“On earth there is nothing like him [Leviathan], which is made without fear. He beholds every high thing; He is king over all the children of pride.”

In Job, Leviathan is described as follow: “strength dwells in his neck, and sorrow dances before him. The folds of his flesh are joined together; They are firm on him and cannot be moved” (Job 41:22-23, NKJV).

Very Stubborn, yes?

Pride – is known as “stiffed necked” in the Old Testament. Oh, those Israelites can be a very stiff necked people, as well as many Christians.

Pride – is evident in with those holding a “hard heart” about something or someone.

Leviathan, a demonic spirit, attacks the spiritual goals of believers, restricts worship and any move towards the Lord; thwarts learning and understanding, which are Spiritual (Isaiah 11:2-3).

I wonder what is at work within the pages of Heaven Awaits?

Wormwood or Leviathan? Maybe both?

No, wait!!

Wormwood has not yet arrived, being thrown into the sea. Leviathan still swims the deep seas – yet to be found.

Wait?

Sea is a representation for humanity, yes?

Blessings
Jeremiah 9:23-26

DJ said this on June 21, 2014 at 2:17 pm | Reply
- dj
  
  the bible seems to describe a physical destruction of the earth, not a symbolic one.
  
  and the ancients knew and wrote about the sun and the moon, but this does not mean they did not exist, just because they were in pagan writings.
  
  I understand your view of wormwood as being symbolic of bitterness, and that might play into things, but I take the bible literally, unless it is obvious that it is meant to be taken symbolically.
  
  for example, we understand the 4th beast to be symbolic…..because Daniel explains it represents a combination of kingdoms.
  
  but a rock falling from the sky into the ocean seem pretty straight forward.
  
  so I disagree with you. it could be literal as well, and not symbolic, or maybe it is both.
  
  this literal viewpoint of wormwood does not indicate a leviathan at work….so I think that was a stretch to say that….I allow all viewpoints to be expressed here, including those I do not agree with, because I want people to be free to think, to express themselves, and maybe to be wrong…..this is not indicative of pride, but openness.
  
  I have about 750 pages of different topics….I find that most people get off the subject quickly, but that is human nature….it would be nice to see them get back on topic but that is ok.
  
  Marianne said this on June 21, 2014 at 2:46 pm | Reply
- So maybe the earthquakes are just a shake-up in governments or churches and are not physical either. I suppose there may be no real descriptions in the Book of Revelation and everything is just a description of the visions using terms John could relate to.
  If that is the case then all bets are off and we can use our imaginations to come up with a myriad of scenarios that might fit the descriptions.
  In that case we might as well skip over these verses since we may not even recognize them when they come. For some reason I just don’t believe God would allow such leeway and ambiguity in these verses, but I suppose it could happen.
  After all, it says wormwood would strike the rivers and fountains of waters (geysers?) which would be impossible for a single object, so something weird is in the works.
  Can’t wait to see what will happen.
  
  Jim Giordano said this on June 23, 2014 at 5:41 am | Reply
  - asteroids do fall on earth…so if a really big one fit a fault line, that might do it…just thinking
    
    Marianne said this on June 23, 2014 at 10:26 am | Reply
    - Well, if science can’t explain it it must be the work of God.
      I’m fine with that. I need look no further.
      
      Jim Giordano said this on October 9, 2015 at 9:40 am | Reply
      - it is all the work of god.
        
        much we do not understand or know for sure, which is why people debate what is really true
        
        Marianne said this on October 9, 2015 at 9:51 am | Reply
Jim,

You’re confused. Never did I say the parts of the statue represent persons. You’re confusing the statue with the 7 heads which are 7 individuals as well as the 7 hilled city of both political and religious Rome. The 5 fallen Caesars in Rev. 17 are true. The Antichrist it says is one of the 5. That one is Nero because his name comes to 666 in Greek – Neron Kaiser. The second beast Judas resurrected doesn’t become the 1st beast Nero resurrected. How silly that you suggest that. A military leader supports his king, doesn’t become him. The Antichrist is not the 6th Domitian at the time of John’s writing. There will be a 7th who receives a deadly wound and comes back to life as the 8th. This 8th is the Antichrist. Some have suggested Prince William — Will I AM — the most beloved person on the planet, but that remains to be seen. This is the interpretation the early church fathers took as well with regard to Nero as one of the 5 fallen Caesars in Rev. 17. Rev. 13 says the 1st beast is 666 not the 2nd beast so, again, you’re confused. The 2nd beast supports the 1st beast. You brought up the Left Behind series. Understand why their perspective is wrong. They claim everyone is raptured before the Tribulation who is saved, but that is clearly wrong because Matt. 24.40-42, Luke 21.36 and Rev. 3.10 show that the first rapture “before the throne” (Rev. 7.9) in 3rd heaven is according to readiness, so only those Christians who keep the word of His patience, are prayerful and watchful will be taken and not left. All Christians are saved and can’t lose eternal life, but not all Christians are ready to be received at the first rapture. Those who are “alive” and “left” (1 Thess. 4.14-18) will be raptured near the end of the Tribulation and before the bowls of wrath. This is called partial rapture…

http://www3.telus.net/trbrooks/Partial_rapture.htm

Troy Brooks said this on June 21, 2014 at 4:00 pm | Reply
- Nowhere in Matt. 24.40-42, Luke 21.36 or Rev. 3.10 does it say people will be raptured 7 years before the Second Coming. They are in fact referring to the one and only “rapture” that occurs when Christ returnd to take his throne. If you are right then there are three returns of Jesus. Surely Christ would have mad all that clear somewhere – letting His people know that the first two returns will not be for real.
  BTW, prince William is in the direct line from King David so I don’t thik he will be the antichrist. In fact the entire Royal family will die in the tribulation – probably to make way for Jesus to take the throne. He will actually sit on the same throne England has always used for coronations, which is the original throne of David from 500 B.C.
  As far as all your kings and reincarnations go, you are so far out in left field it doesn’t make any sense to me so I can’t even comment on it. I just know John was not referring to kings of his own time in the middle of a vision of the future. Plus, I don’t see any need for or possibility of reincarnations.
  Same is true for raptures.
  Question, why are Daniel’s beasts kingdoms but Revelations beasts are people? Shouldn’t the terms mean the same thing in similar and continuing prophecies?
  Your interpretation defies simple logic and God is not the author of confusion.
  Your explanation is too complicated to be real, in my opinion.
  K.I.S.S!
  
  Jim Giordano said this on June 23, 2014 at 7:57 pm | Reply
Marianne,

Always a pleasure to exchange comments on this and other subjects.

When I read the comments of you/James or see the subject of “Nibi” pop up – it seems appropriate to respond on that page.

From the Expanded Translation of Malachi chapter 4:

“[L For look/T behold] There is a day coming that will burn like a hot furnace, and all the proud [arrogant] and evil people [evildoers] will be like straw [chaff; stubble].

On that day they will be completely burned up so that not a root or branch will be left,” says the Lord All-Powerful [Almighty; of Heaven’s Armies; T of hosts].

“But for you who honor me [L fear/revere my name], goodness will shine on you like the sun [L the sun of righteousness will rise], with healing in its rays [L wings].

You will jump around [go out leaping], like well-fed calves [L calves from the stall]. Then you will crush [trample] the wicked like ashes under your feet on the day I will do this,” says the Lord All-Powerful [Almighty; of Heaven’s Armies; T of hosts].

“Remember the teaching [law; L Torah] of Moses my servant, those laws [decrees] and rules I gave to him on Mount Sinai [L Horeb] for all the Israelites [Ex. 19–24].

“But I will send you Elijah the prophet before that great and terrifying day of the Lord’s judging [L Lord]. Elijah will help parents love [L turn the hearts of fathers/parents to] their children and children love [L turn children to] their parents.

Otherwise, I will come and put a curse on the land [strike the land with a curse/destruction].”

Amen!

Please – when reading the last verses of the passage, and do not expect Elijah to physical appear or two old bearded men (witnesses) in sackcloth to walk the streets of Jerusalem.

Here is the Psalms:

“Who is the man that fears the Lord?
Him shall He teach in the way He chooses.
He himself shall dwell in prosperity,
And his descendants shall inherit the earth” (Psalm 25:12-13, NKJV).

“For those who are evil will be destroyed, but those who hope in the LORD will inherit the land” (Psalm 37:9).

Praise the Lord.

“Blessed are those who fear the Lord,
who find great delight in his commands.
Their children will be mighty in the land;
the generation of the upright will be blessed.

Wealth and riches are in their houses,
and their righteousness endures forever.
Even in darkness light dawns for the upright,
for those who are gracious and compassionate and righteous.

Good will come to those who are generous and lend freely,
who conduct their affairs with justice.
Surely the righteous will never be shaken;
they will be remembered forever.
They will have no fear of bad news;
their hearts are steadfast, trusting in the Lord.

Their hearts are secure, they will have no fear;
in the end they will look in triumph on their foes.
They have freely scattered their gifts to the poor,
their righteousness endures forever;
their horn will be lifted high in honor.

The wicked will see and be vexed,
they will gnash their teeth and waste away;
the longings of the wicked will come to nothing” (Psalm 112).

Wormwood is a demonic spirit (bitterness, un-forgiveness, resentment) is as or more stronger/powerful than Jezebel.

Leviathan is a demonic power – extremely powerful upon the human condition as pride and a stiff neck.

Blessings
Psalm 27

DJ said this on June 21, 2014 at 5:07 pm | Reply
- dj
  
  true what you say…I am just seeing things from more than one angle here…physical, spiritual, symbolic, etc
  
  Marianne said this on June 21, 2014 at 5:59 pm | Reply
I have noticed….in the picture of red blood moon……the face of a little boy as if he is breathing from his mouth by tube probably oxygen….the boy must be saying something………..

carlos de bartolome jnr said this on October 25, 2014 at 10:50 pm | Reply
- interesting i had not noticed that
  
  Marianne said this on October 25, 2014 at 11:18 pm | Reply
- 50 years ago it looked like Ralph Cramden to anyone who watched “The Honeymooners” on TV. I find it humorous that people not only try to assign an actual image to it but event try to add information such as the tube is for oxygen. What is next, a story about how the boy ended up in the hospital, maybe even the town (Jupiter, Aflorida?)F As if there is some ultimate truth behind the features on the moon.
  I guess it is the astronomer in me that makes such a discussion seem so silly. It certainly isn’t biblical.
  Oh well.
  
  Jim Giordano said this on October 9, 2015 at 9:34 am | Reply
All the words of of the bible is proved to be true. People are still not aware of the coming of the lord. I want you to pray for every one in this world.. Those who read this please read understand and pray. God bless you

Alisha Anthony said this on October 18, 2015 at 3:44 pm | Reply
Blessings, A Great News for who are waiting for Second Coming and awaiting for these signs to be fulfilled. Prophet Muhammad also restated the Bible’s prophecy and he explained further with sepcific month and dates for both Eclips. He also mentioned these both Eclips will happen in same months.
“For Our Mahdi (Reformer, Messiah) there are two Signs which have never appeared before since the creation of the heavens and the earth, namely, the moon will be eclipsed on the first night in Ramadan (i.e. on the first of the nights on which a lunar eclipse can occur) and the sun will be eclipsed on the middle day (i.e.; on the middle one of the days on which a solar eclipse can occur), and these Signs have not appeared since God created the heavens and the earth.”
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light.” (Matthew 24:29)

If the Hijri Calendar is used, the dates on which a lunar eclipse can occur are 13, 14 and 15; and the dates on which a solar eclipse can occur are 27, 28 and 29. According to the prophecy, the lunar eclipse would occur on the first night and the solar eclipse would occur on the middle day in the month of Ramadan. This fixes the 13th of Ramadan for the lunar eclipse and the 28th of Ramadan for the solar eclipse.

Fulfilment of Prophecy:
The lunar eclipse occurred after sunset on the 13th of Ramadan (March 21, 1894) and the solar eclipse occurred on Friday, the 28th of Ramadan (April 6, 1894).

Second Advent:
Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian, India, peace be on him, Claimed in March, 1889. that He is the Second coming of Jesus and claimed that God has told me that these signs will full fill in his favour. And by God’s will these signs were shown in 1894 in East and 1895 in West.

https://www.alislam.org/library/sign.html

Please read more in details:
https://www.alislam.org/topics/messiah/index.php

Mazhar said this on November 27, 2015 at 3:22 pm | Reply
- mazhar
  
  normally, solar and lunar eclipses are at least 2 weeks apart.
  
  http://www.timeanddate.com/eclipse/list.html
  
  they also occur at different times of the day
  http://www.moonconnection.com/lunar_vs_solar.phtml
  
  my impression of the prediction in the bible, is that BOTH eclipses will happen at the same time….which is NOT natural, but supernatural event
  
  there are also other events going on:
  
  The Sixth Seal: Terror
  
  12 I looked when He broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became like blood;
  
  13 and the stars of the sky fell to the earth, as a fig tree casts its unripe figs when shaken by a great wind. revelation 6:12-13
  
  from this page, if correct, no eclipses during ramadan until 2018
  
  2014-2019 Islam’s (Shiite) countdown to the 12th Imam Mahdi
  
  Marianne said this on November 27, 2015 at 3:54 pm | Reply
Please read the true story of Holy Jesus Chris,

http://www.alislam.org/topics/jesus/

Documentary by Govt. of India

Documentary by BBC

Mazhar said this on November 27, 2015 at 3:36 pm | Reply
- mahazar
  
  both islam and christianity would call these people at the BBC “unbelievers”
  
  my truth comes from the word of God, NOT the BBC.
  
  there are too many flaws in their reasoning to address them all.
  
  the romans documented the crucifixion. and they had guards, who were not fooled by any tricks.
  
  i did not look at all of this because the videos are too long…but the people in the phillipines are wrong to crucify themselves….this is similar to the cuttings muslims do when they cut their heads and bleed.
  
  there is nothing confusing about the gospels, if one has good understanding ….this is a claim made by those who refuse to believe them to begin with.
  
  i am not going to address every false point here… that would take hours
  
  if you want to raise a single issue, then do that and we can talk….
  
  Marianne said this on November 27, 2015 at 4:24 pm | Reply
One thing is very clear to me that Jesus died a natural death and burred in Kashmir(India), I can proof from Bible and historic proofs. was never descendent to skies. And second coming will be similar to Jesus but will be in other personalty. And that is in shape of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed of Qadia.
All Biblical prophecies fulfilled in his time.
We can discuss about death of jesus. Please read this small booklet and let me know what you think.

Click to access deathonthecross.pdf

Mazhar said this on November 27, 2015 at 5:19 pm | Reply
- ok I read that.
  
  you read this
  
  Click to access deathjesus.pdf
  
  Marianne said this on November 27, 2015 at 6:12 pm | Reply
  - Hello Marianne, John 19:34 Context32Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.33But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs: 34But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. 35And he that saw [it] bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.36For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken. Where it’s mentioned he pierced in heart, by the way heart is quite upper portion of chest and protected by ribs. Refer here is side means likely under ribs and water and blood gushed out sign of heart was still pumping. Could you please explain sign which mentioned by Jesus to be shown same as sign of Jonah, He went in belly of fish alive he was alive when in belly and he came alive. Same way Jesus was alive when went in belly of earth was alive when inside and came out alive from belly of earth. Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 18:12:34 +0000 To: mazharmajeed@hotmail.com
    
    Mazhar Majeed said this on November 27, 2015 at 9:41 pm | Reply
    - hi mahzar
      
      if you look on page 1462 of the medical evaluation of the crucifixion, you will see the “DEATH OF JESUS.” here it describes that it was not the lower section below the ribs that was pierced.
      
      the greek word for pleura is lungs… so it was not ascites fluid or urine from the lower area….since the soldier was below the body pointing the spear upwards, it would have passed UNDER the ribs and hit the heart.
      
      the right side of the heart has a thin wall, and would easily be pierced. at this point the spear most likely hit the lungs also…..this produced a very large amount of blood from the hole in the heart, and water from the lungs, some pleural and pericardial fluid. most of the liquid was blood. draining all the blood out of the body would mean immediate heart failure and sure death. so jesus died of cardiac rupture due to a direct wound that tore it open, along with a torn lung, meaning jesus could no longer breathe.
      
      Marianne said this on November 27, 2015 at 11:20 pm | Reply
Please explain when was sign fulfilled mentioned by Jesus, I’m referring to sign of Jonah

Mazhar said this on November 27, 2015 at 11:36 pm | Reply
- the sign of Jonah:
  
  Jonah was in the belly of the whale for 3 days….
  
  the whale was his “grave” unless he escaped.
  
  then god took him out of the fish, back to life, so he could go and give a message to Ninevah inhabitants
  
  so….
  
  for Jesus, this same sign of Jonah would apply to him also
  
  he would be dead “in the grave” for 3 days
  
  then he would rise from the dead
  
  Marianne said this on November 27, 2015 at 11:50 pm | Reply
I dont get it , Jonah was alive when went in belly, he was alive when in belly and came out alive as well,
Jesus was dead when went to belly of earth, was dead in belly of earth and came alive from belly of earth.
How both cases are same. in one person was alive in three stages but case of Jesus he was dead in in two stages.

Sign have no similarity then. Unless in all three stages Jesus was alive.

Mazhar said this on November 28, 2015 at 12:27 am | Reply
- jesus just meant a general comparison…it does not have to be an exact match
  
  the belly of the whale represented death to jonah….he would have died if he stayed there. but god was merciful and let him out
  
  so the tomb also represented death to jesus…. he would have stayed dead, but the power of god raised him back to life, and he walked out
  
  Marianne said this on November 28, 2015 at 2:30 am | Reply
- Many prophecies in the bible are dual. One is a “type” for the next but never exactly the same. The Jonah prophecy refers to the length of time Jesus would ne in the tomb- the same amount of time Jonah spent in the fish. That prophecy proved to be correct. More than can be said of any prophecy in the Koran. What were you expecting, for Jesus to be buried in a fish?
  
  Jim Giordano said this on November 28, 2015 at 9:40 am | Reply
Arnold Murray one of God’s greatest teachers he teaches the truth word by word that’s the problem with the world they all don’t want to know the truth they want to follow traditions of man the bunny rabbits the Easter eggs the Santa Claus’s and the world does not want to no what is yet to come they just want to pretend its all not going to happen and just to follow after the ways of man and God said if you are of this world you are not of me long live your teachings Arnold Murray you were truly a man of God truly one who dedicated and devoted his life to the Lord for over 50 years rest in peace for I know you are with the father I can just hear him now when you passed away and entered the gates of heaven well done my good and faithful servant

Janice jenkins said this on March 1, 2016 at 4:11 pm | Reply
PLEASE CALL ME 941 5800249 or your pastor need help…

Adairmaalicea said this on March 10, 2016 at 2:50 am | Reply
- John Ashcraft cannot make long distance phone calls but if you need help e-mail me at Jardalkal@aol.com. We can use teamviewer to communicate.
  
  jardalkal said this on March 10, 2016 at 4:03 am | Reply
- adair
  
  what is wrong?
  
  Marianne said this on March 10, 2016 at 12:18 pm | Reply
many things are received in truth as we see and hear this very day, but seeing the day comes and his light was before day one, even Sunday, and in that day was before any day, just as the things written of mE the one he, i aM said he would send. Seeing they will see the work of your GOD who said my father who named the light that was before the days and call that day the day,this day you guys see what are in those days, but can you see what is in the depths of the sea? i can tell you about your spoils or i can speak on your inheritance its up to what you want to believe?

and do not believe the the invisibly god, has any walked with him, then seeing he mad cloths of skin for him, because the was of the light of life that is the transparent light as the new heaven. just as only one was with the word, then the world became flesh. now seeing the word has become flesh, and all remained dead, yet all was divided, surly ready for the defeat. and seeing the son of GOD who is born of sin, made in the likeness of DEATH, a partaker of the flesh and blood, as the children given to him, as he is not a baby nor a boy but a man child, did my rib give birth to mE, or was it my sister, but that would be my daughter and she is my wife, like my twin, how i love mY mother, but i also love my father. So i have to become like him to remember his name. And does judgement wait on mE?

they will know on earth it also was in heaven. but did any have the minute to redeem those things in heaven, for the father looked down to the sons, and the sons to the father seeing what was to be shaken, if fallen was sure for breaking. but what is broken may be built up stronger than ever understood. your father knows who understood these things and his light was life theirs of the world not being so bright, the blind lead the blind the cannot see but the sound of feet in-front vanishes in the darkness. just as they go one leads another, ans they go of, blind leading the blind and the walk sideways, going from the right to the left. seeing the follow their rib is it a wounder what side the lean on mE?

the water one comes up and get on high straight away see the frowns, and on this DAY look at the word around still a frown. but you know who must come before Elijah, as for mE you know mE i have told you so becuase before Abraham is i am he said i aM who i aM, and i aM not saying i Am i AM, because i aM mE, thats how the story goes, look in those books the dead teach, look and see the bury each other by the truth they teach, just as the blood in the moon and the darkness sets over the sun, yet they are appointed and so was your fathers, name day, seal and kingdom all from the invisible father, whom the heaven long awaited for is given to all who believe in his name, the go from death unto life. but like the floods then will be also as these days, and you now were the ark is, right?

if it was not so would i have said it was so, we need to pray most surly that the know they have followed the light of the world, the do not understand the light of life, and mother earth she gives life to all the living. but if you respect your mother, than also did you respect your parents before them, and what about them? yes i speak for them, has any stood up for them? Moses spoke to the fathers, and Jesus spoke to the brothers and mothers and sister but i speak to them who they have not spoken. but remember what was spoken when last time things were broken, seeing they said he said he would destroy they temple and raise it up in 3 days, and now it is so, just as 1000 = 1 believe i am not a gambling man, and it is written you are the temple of god.

now reproach is good for understanding its like conditioning. just as coming down from a cross before you go come on down feel the weight to carry wood for a weapon not understood, then might it be understood of the spiritual maters, than hang your leather stretch it over wood condition you hope its in the sun, for what is good in the heat of the sun, but in night its cursed, for the conditions of him when he rolls back the stone, after coming from stones who places rock into the water, yet from these things we have come too, because we have come to what we have believed. The glory of man is it ideology as soon as the blind began to lead the blind? gravity over time can lead the blind behind in the time, as seeing forgiveness and love is unconditional, Unlike the conditions a servants is beaten in the street, and a son is stretched out on wood, come down if your this, but did they ask for a thief and not that?

when the visible father who the invisible created light he saw it was good and called it the day? Who speak of the children of the DAY? you sea the dead are not dead seeing i also have went through the sea? when the father of light he is understood, for you know in a scroll it is written in a book of Me who was created before any day, seen in him making his presence known, before any day existed, light was clear and transparent in the DAY, righteous is the lord he is upright, as the heavens spoken of, just as the name of him who sent mE. Seeing the living father who sent his son the son of man, Who said he was from the living and visible God, do you not understand my words, are they my words, or are they immortal, eternal, then you know i am Me, and he is he, and he spoke and explained the second death the great white throne judgement? You would have done good, you would know the father also seeing the father why should i lie, who is the truth is standing in front of you, knowing you have only one father, one teacher.

and the lesson of to day is this that you know this, how can 99 teach one is that insane? is that not backward to be the blame with the lame? and now we should not be astounding when understanding the truth is everlasting. someone said this is how it is, but had not seen how, another said he heard so they heard but did not know how, what was seen became like the wind in a hallow grave, were did it go in the day and were did the days come, and when can i release life and the breath of him who placed you in skin before it falls apart .none have ever heard the truth nor seen the truth, this truth, one god, one father? surely, truth is found through faith in the truth to the faithful trusty is the trustworthy and they are few, they will call you superstitious but a kinsman redeemer pleads the reliever,, supernatural quickening of the believer, comes not from the deceiver, what does not destroy you could not over run you.

Micha'el Anagennáō Ethnos said this on March 21, 2016 at 8:46 am | Reply
8/06/2020 I was wondering about everything that I have learned from science and the Bible and all signs brought me to this website and it doesn’t matter what day really if God is in you the Holy Spirit will guide you God wanted me to do my homework and my family and friends all know God is real and a day will come have faith that our bodies feel pain and suffering from our bodies but the soul dose not..I’m am not afraid to die for i now walk even day with the Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ find peace and happiness in you soul God’s Word and will is upon us ammen.

Charles Thiele said this on May 10, 2016 at 4:46 am | Reply
- amen
  
  Marianne said this on May 10, 2016 at 11:02 am | Reply
Thank you for your efforts, Orlando.

Orlando Jose Serra said this on June 12, 2016 at 6:06 pm | Reply
[…] to some teachings of Christianity, Islam, Judaism and Hinduism an eclipse is a bad omen of things to come. Possibly, the end of […]

We’re all going to die | Armchair Midrash said this on September 8, 2016 at 11:35 am | Reply
Look, even Perry Stone admits that the pre-tribulation theory may be inaccurate.

Look, the book of revelation is not in chronological order. Acts 1:7 clearly states that “it is not for you to know the times and the seasons”.

Instead of training people “how to bear witness with the power of God” to a lost generation, we wasted time arguing about the rapture doctrine and when it will occur associated with the sun and moon, while millions of Christians are dying in hospitals right now. Does this make any sense?

Factually, there is no secret coming of Christ, only one more not two!. In fact, in 1 Thes 1:6, we see that the church of Thessalonica receives the word in “much affliction” (g2347 θλῖψις thlipsis) (great tribulation).

The rapture doctrine began with a man by the name of Emmanuel Lacunza “Rabbi Ben Ezra.” 1831 who published the document “the coming of the Messiah in great glory and power”. Rapture is simple of word from Latin meaning “harpazo” Prior that date, it simple was called the “catching away”.

Prior to the words of Lacunaza, a Jesuit priest from Argentina, when believers read 1 thes 4:16, they understood it as Christ resurrecting his believers.

But now it as taken on wings of its own, today’s theologians want to call it the “great escape.” Yet through-out the paradigm of scriptures, God never caused anyone to escape from tribulation, but he guarded and protected his people like Noah and his family in the arc. God designed his people to endure, not escape from tribulation.

Look, Rev 3:10 makes it emphatically clear, God keeps us during tribulation, not “catch us away.” The “catching away” of 1 thes 4:16 is not an escape mentality, but the moment when Christ raises believers are sleeping and waiting for the promise. We that remain, should be forming teams to go out and harvest the wheat, not wasting time with theological musing that satiate the transmitters and receptors of the brain.

Finally, I believe in the signs of the sun and moon. I believe in the “catching way”, but I do not concur with you doctrine. For those who do not know the definition of word “doctrine” it means the interpretation or hermeneutics of a body of text.

Prophet Michael

Prophet Michael said this on December 21, 2016 at 9:37 pm | Reply
- prophet
  
  this article does not really address pre trib vs post trib rapture
  
  this post is more about the timing of the tribulation itself due to signs in the sky
  
  Marianne said this on December 22, 2016 at 1:37 am | Reply
Marianne,
This article is a bit dated but I am just wondering, how close to the actual second coming would an eclipse have to be in order to be the one that was prophesied in the bible? Or are the last ten or twenty before the second coming all part of the signs? Do you see my dilemma? Just listing a bunch of eclipse dates doesn’t really help me very much.
I think the verses you quoted are far too general to have any specific relevance to End-Time events. That includes earthquakes as well. We had the strongest quake in history a few years ago (in Chile I believe) and yet there was no second coming. At least you aren’t generating actual dates like others I know here, but I don’t see the value in reading this article as it leaves me stranded with nothing to latch on to.
Is there anything deeper you can add to it to allow it make more sense?
And please don’t refer me to jardalkal for more details! 🙂

itshallcometopass96 said this on January 7, 2017 at 5:43 am | Reply
- Solar and Lunar eclipses occur two weeks apart to several months apart. Use Nasa Eclipse Website to llok for the years you are interested in. Look for events between September and October 15th timeframe or even the month before. By the way, you might want to remember that a 3 hour Solar eclipse occurred on the same day as Lunar eclipse at Jesus’s Day. The average solar eclipse occurs between 5 and 20 minutes and the average lunar eclipse is 13 minutes. Times will be less or more either sides of the average. I have been doing this research since Mark Biltz Red Blood Moon Tetrads came out. So you have to add in the unexpected 3 hour Solar Eclipse and figure out what would cause it since most are under 20 minutes.
  
  jardalkal said this on January 7, 2017 at 6:00 am | Reply
- it
  
  you are right. this is dated.
  
  at first I tried to see how natural events could come into play to fulfill the prophecy
  
  they might do that still
  
  it may be that the none of the events are something that normally happen naturally, or due to general patterns.
  
  the BIG moment is when we see the sun turns dark, the moon turn red, stars fall from the sky, being “rolled back like a scroll,” and there is a giant earthquake the entire earth will feel…..all at the SAME time
  
  Isaiah describes a pole shift that matches what revelation describes
  https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+24&version=NASB
  
  this suggests an unusual celestial event.
  
  this has never happened before, as far as being recorded in this detail, that I know of
  
  there is a second solar system connected to ours, and there may be rare interactions that MAY occur, but thousands of years apart… most solar systems are binary
  
  if these two systems come close enough, there could be a geomagnetic disturbance that could create a celestial event that would effect earth.
  
  this is the nibiru system of legend…most write this off as a myth, but it is also consistent with scientific findings of a binary system…..
  
  the us government denies this, but the russian and some other governments do admit it
  
  I heard one us scientist say there is something out there, a planet X, that is defying the laws of physics….objects in motion tend to stay in motion, unless there is something there to stop it…..planet x was moving toward us for years and then suddenly stopped….he was puzzled….I understand this to be the hand of god…
  
  if you look here, you will see pictures of it
  
  so it is finally getting close…how close it needs to get, to cause effects, I do not know
  
  this is a mini solar system, with planets, some of which have moons.
  
  it is coming up from below the sun now…
  
  if one of the planets, or the second sun, passed in front of our sun, it would eclipse it, the energy created between 2 suns could seem to split the sky and if earth is close enough, it would experience a pole shift…and there is one planet, nibiru, that is red due to iron oxide dust, and this would create a red hue to our own moon
  
  so that is a possibility.. this is a big topic so I cannot put all data in a comment box
  
  but maybe something else will happen instead
  
  Marianne said this on January 7, 2017 at 12:11 pm | Reply
  - It came to pass,
    
    Isaiah describes a pole shift that matches what revelation describes
    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah+24&version=NASB
    
    this suggests an unusual celestial event.
    
    this has never happened before, as far as being recorded in this detail, that I know of
    Marianne said the above.
    
    The last axial poleshift to occur was at the flood. Jardalkalataol.blogspot.com–Isaiah 24 and the Flood
    Reader beware. The articles are long and in detail and copied from other sources.
    As for the Flood one, on the Day of Atonement prior to the flood there was an global earthquake and history repeats itself so on the Day of Atonement may or possibly will be an global earthquake again.
    
    Also for this event to occur below there has to be a solar and lunar eclipse on the same day and the last one was Jesus’ death.
    Rev_6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; (Rev 8:5).
    Planet X//Nibiru/El Shaddai/The destroyer will cause this event to occur.
    Government window for planet X is 2015-2020 but a closer one is Sept. 2017 to October 2018 to what articles are saying on the internet.
    
    jardalkal said this on January 7, 2017 at 3:20 pm | Reply
  - Marianne / Jar,
    As I’ve said once before, I consider all the Nibiru hype to be fake news. All I have is common sense, I don’t own a telescope, but it is clear from the 4 pictures you posted here that they are completely different. The two sun shots show a small dark spot and a large bright one. Not the same. I get the same bright spots all the time when I take sunset pictures and I’ve been getting them since my husband gave me a nice camera when we got married many years ago. Plus you claimed that Nibiru is coming up from below the sun. The two photos show it right next to the sun indicating it is already here. And I’ve been seeing similar pictures for many years now so if they were real it would seem that Nibiru has been captured by the sun and it won’t let it go.
    The other two pictures, both completely different, were clearly taken thru a telescope and are nowhere near the sun. The last one looks like a gas cloud and not a solid body so I don’t see how anyone could believe it is a planet. Isn’t this clear to anyone who looks at these photos? You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to smell a rat here.
    I’ve been fooled too many times in the past of all sorts of conspiracy theories. Starting with Y2K, then the Mayan nonsense which you even mentioned in this article. I guess some people can be fooled over and over again and it doesn’t bother them. I’m not one of those people. I’m not from Missouri (the Show-Me state) but I’m going to need some sort of real proof before I go believing stories that are contrary to established science or even common sense. If it takes a wild conspiracy theory to overturn science or common knowledge (like the earth is flat) I won’t believe it until I can see it. I can’t see Nibiru when I look at the sunset, so for me, it isn’t there. Plain and simple. I think most people actually feel that way. No one I’ve ever talked to thinks Nibiru is real, but then they are not into bible prophecy, so they don’t really need it to exist. From the videos I’ve watched it appears that most Nibiru believers also think it is part of biblical events.
    As for the pole shift idea, unless God decides to move the earth Himself I don’t think it is going to do back flips on its own accord. According to a few web sites the earth was supposed to flip ten times by now. They were all wrong. And that tells me something about all the future predictions.
    Some here have called me a scoffer, but I’m really just stubborn. If a theory isn’t obvious that it is either true or likely to be true then I’m not jumping in without looking. It is easy to verify most claims, but in reality it is impossible to do so in most cases simply because when you try to verify them you discover they are completely bogus.
    But the people who want or need these theories to be true just don’t bother to verify anything. They just believe blindly. But that seems to be a common Christian attribute. Just look at all the people who blindly follow the pope. They don‘t realize their church is doomed because they believe their leader instead of studying scripture.
    In other cases people don’t realize their interpretation is wrong because they believe the internet unconditionally.
    Sometimes human nature can be a bit frustrating to me. 🙂
    
    itshallcometopass96 said this on January 8, 2017 at 3:41 am | Reply
    - it
      
      I tried to answer your question. you can believe what you want as well.
      
      god can act supernaturally, or he can use nature
      
      Marianne said this on January 8, 2017 at 11:55 am | Reply
    - itshall be,
      Read Isaiah 24 at Jardalkalataol.blogspot.com in its entirety first. After that, then read the 600 other pages before you say Nibiru is a fake.
      
      Stubburness is a Sin and will cause you to be separated from your Husband on the Day of Trumpet at the rapture. You will be left behind to go through the Trumpet and Bowl Judgments of Revelation whether it be one year, 3.5 years or even 7 years. Because of your stubbornness, you will be bitten by the locusts of Revelation 9 and be in pain for 5 months and you will not be able to commit suicide.
      
      Deu_21:18 If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
      Deu_21:20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
      Jdg_2:19 And it came to pass, when the judge was dead, that they returned, and corrupted themselves more than their fathers, in following other gods to serve them, and to bow down unto them; they ceased not from their own doings, nor from their stubborn way.
      Psa_78:8 And might not be as their fathers, a stubborn and rebellious generation; a generation that set not their heart aright, and whose spirit was not stedfast with God.
      Pro_7:11 (She is loud and stubborn; her feet abide not in her house:
      
      Why do you hate God? Because of your stubbornness, you are on the road to the lake of fire and brimstone.
      On your Judgment day, Jesus will tell you that he never knew you. Then you will be sent to the lake of fire and brimstone.
      
      jardalkal said this on January 8, 2017 at 4:17 pm | Reply
      - edited
        
        Marianne said this on January 8, 2017 at 5:03 pm | Reply
    - Stubborn it is who you are,
      
      Obduracy
      General references
      2Ch_36:15-16; Psa_95:8-11; Heb_3:8; Heb_3:15; Heb_4:7; Pro_1:24-31; Pro_29:1; Rev_9:20-21
      See Afflictions, Obduracy in; Impenitence; Reprobacy
      Instances of:
      The antediluvians Gen_6:3; Gen_6:5; Gen_6:7
      Sodomites Gen_19:9; Gen_19:14
      Pharaoh See Pharaoh
      Israelites Num_14:22
      Sons of Eli 1Sa_2:22-25
      
      Obduracy
      OB’DURACY, n. [See Obdurate.] Invincible hardness of heart; impenitence that cannot be subdued; inflexible persistency in sin; obstinacy in wickedness.
      
      God may by almighty grace hinder the absolute completion of sin in final obduracy.
      
      jardalkal said this on January 8, 2017 at 4:36 pm | Reply
      - someone else here is stubborn too 🙂
        
        Marianne said this on January 8, 2017 at 5:14 pm | Reply
        
        Mine stem from maybe bitterness, anger, jealousy, and definitely from Sexual immorality and these are all in my past. And I have been working on these issues since I found out that I am autistic back in 2015. So my mind is renewed constantly in this area and my Pschologist is helping too but it is one visit per month.
        Some of the underlining issues of the autism caused some of this.
        So as I post this 15 page paper until Stubborn one emails me at Jardalkal@aol.com to get the paper, I have to do it this way and post more of the article at one posting per day.
        
        jardalkal said this on January 8, 2017 at 6:12 pm | Reply
    - Stubborn Hardened heart who will burn in eternity.
      Once you die and you can die in the next 5 minutes, you will not have a second chance to change your previos life.
      By your confession that you are stubborn, then this tells me that you have never been saved and you are still following Satan who is your master instead of Jesus and God.
      
      1 Disobedience
      Disobedience is the most common problem with God’s children today. The tendency will always be to do one own thing and not consider the consequences. It must be a deliberate decision to follow God’s commandments not because we have to but because we know that God gave it to us to guide and protect us.
      Examples of disobedience in the Bible:
      • Deuteronomy 28 s one of the best known scriptures today when it comes to blessings and curses due to obedience.
      15 “But if you refuse to listen to the Lord your God and do not obey all the commands and decrees I am giving you today, all these curses will come and overwhelm you: …
      20 “The Lord himself will send on you curses, confusion, and frustration in everything you do, until at last you are completely destroyed for doing evil and abandoning me. 21 The Lord will afflict you with diseases until none of you are left in the land you are about to enter and occupy. 22 The Lord will strike you with wasting diseases, fever, and inflammation, with scorching heat and drought, and with blight and mildew. These disasters will pursue you until you die.
      27 “The Lord will afflict you with the boils of Egypt and with tumors, scurvy, and the itch, from which you cannot be cured. 28 The Lord will strike you with madness, blindness, and panic.
      34 You will go mad because of all the tragedy you see around you. 35 The Lord will cover your knees and legs with incurable boils. In fact, you will be covered from head to foot.
      58 “If you refuse to obey all the words of instruction that are written in this book, and if you do not fear the glorious and awesome name of the Lord your God, 59 then the Lord will overwhelm you and your children with indescribable plagues. These plagues will be intense and without relief, making you miserable and unbearably sick. 60 He will afflict you with all the diseases of Egypt that you feared so much, and you will have no relief. 61 The Lord will afflict you with every sickness and plague there is, even those not mentioned in this Book of Instruction, until you are destroyed.
      • Carrying of the ark – 2 Samuel 6:6-7: The instruction of carrying the ark was that no person should touch it if they were not from Levy decent.
      6 But when they arrived at the threshing floor of Nacon, the oxen stumbled, and Uzzah reached out his hand and steadied the Ark of God. 7 Then the Lord’s anger was aroused against Uzzah, and God struck him dead because of this.
      
      jardalkal said this on January 8, 2017 at 4:46 pm | Reply
Stubborn it shall come to pass into the lake of fire,

Spiritual Roots of Physical Illnesses and Diseases Heart Sins
Heart: According to the Bible, the heart is the center not only of spiritual activity, but of all the operations of human life. “Heart” and “soul” are often used interchangeably (Deut. 6:5; 26:16; comp. Matt. 22:37; Mark 12:30, 33), but this is not generally the case. The heart is the “home of the personal life,” and hence a man is designated, according to his heart, wise (1 Kings 3:12, etc.), pure (Ps. 24:4; Matt. 5:8, etc.), upright and righteous (Gen. 20:5, 6; Ps. 11:2; 78:72), pious and good (Luke 8:15), etc. In these and such passages the word “soul” could not be substituted for “heart.”
The heart is also the seat of the conscience (Rom. 2:15). It is naturally wicked (Gen. 8:21), and hence it contaminates the whole life and character (Matt. 12:34; 15: 18; comp. Eccl. 8:11; Ps. 73:7). Hence the heart must be changed, regenerated (Ezek. 36:26; 11:19; Ps. 51:10-14), before a man can willingly obey God. The process of salvation begins in the heart by the believing reception of the testimony of God, while the rejection of that testimony hardens the heart (Ps. 95:8; Prov. 28:14; 2 Chr. 36:13).
“Hardness of heart evidences itself by light views of sin; partial acknowledgment and confession of it; pride and conceit; ingratitude; unconcern about the word and ordinances of God; inattention to divine providences; stifling convictions of conscience; shunning reproof; presumption, and general ignorance of divine things.”

jardalkal said this on January 8, 2017 at 4:22 pm | Reply
Jar,
You claim Jesus will reject me unless I believe in your ranting. Have you ever wondered what will happen to False Prophets? People who lead others astray and teach them that numerology and astrology are more important than the words of Christ. it is preferable to say nothing than to teach lies. If Jesus doesn’t return on Sep23rd are you prepared to repent for your mistakes? Or will you just blame all the web sites you drew your information from? You’d better get ready to prepare for failure and decide how you will handle it.
Tick Tock.

itshallcometopass96 said this on January 9, 2017 at 8:52 am | Reply
- his response to you was deleted.
  
  Marianne said this on January 9, 2017 at 2:40 pm | Reply
  - Mariann, then go ahead and delete all posts with my name on it from every article on your wordpress. By the way, you will also be judged fro every, thought, word spoken and written and every action performed since the age of accountability.
    Good riddance and begone Period>
    By the way, you are also on the raod to the lake of fire and brimetone. I just saw a four minute video on the War between Christains verse Christians. and it nailed it on the head betwenn the lady persecuting me with her hatred.
    
    jardalkal said this on January 9, 2017 at 2:52 pm | Reply
    - I deleted the comment because you were calling people bad names…before , I just edited the comment …you can still post but no name calling
      
      Marianne said this on January 9, 2017 at 3:01 pm | Reply