Syria today, America tomorrow

clip_image001 clip_image002clip_image003


clip_image001[2] What goes around, comes around.


clip_image001[4] News Story:


clip_image001[6] Red Mushroom Cloud? Huge Explosion Rocks Damascus Syria Causing Blackout!

Blackout and fire due to Syrian rebels attack on city.

Many innocent people are suffering from the violence, murders, and the power outage.

The US has the continued audacity to support Al Qaeda terrorists in Syria, which is counter to its own security, and the security of the world.

This is carried out by evil people, and permitted by their spineless opponents, who are too afraid to do anything.

Where are the righteous heroes, who fight for good, and not evil?

And what we sow, we will reap.

We will see mushroom clouds here too, and fires.

And we, just like the Syrians, will experience blackouts, as regions are destroyed .

Damascus is predicted in the bible to become a ruinous heap.

A prophecy against Damascus: "See, Damascus will no longer be a city but will become a heap of ruins. Isaiah 17:1

Little did I think, years ago, it would be due to American sponsored terrorism. I thought it would be the Syrians bringing it upon themselves.

Now, America has set itself up to also become a ruinous heap, as just punishment for the terror it supports.

I wish to extend my deepest concern and apology to the people of the world for what it is seeing.

Maybe America really is “Mystery Babylon” that God causes to fall in the last days.

I deeply repent before God for what America has done to the world.

I deeply pray for those American soldiers, and other soldiers, who have been put in harm’s way, to fight for freedom and security of our country, and for other countries.

I deeply pray for those in other countries who are facing danger and evil, due to many sources.

I deeply pray AGAINST the Satanic Antichrist system, which is destroying the world, and putting it under subjection and oppression.

May God help, protect and provide for all those who call upon his Name, YHVH, Yahweh.

301 Responses to “Syria today, America tomorrow”

  1. […] here for […]

  2. A Lord’s Way Ministries
    Skip to contentHomeAbout October 26, 2013 · 8:45 am | Edit Are these not the End Times?
    First I would like to start off by quoting from what our Lord told us would happen: Jn.16:33These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

    Jesus told us if we are to be His we need to become overcomers of this world and its ways as the Apostle James said in 4:4Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. When we leave the ways of our Lord Jesus we have just left our first love and have come back into the world and found ourselves to be an adulterous nation and generation: This is not being an over-comer, this is the seed Jesus was talking about who received the word (Gospel) and the cares of this world choked it out! If we are truly as those who are spoken of in Mal.3:16Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another (2 Tm.2:24-26; Jms.5:19-20; 1 Pt.4:8): and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name. 17And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him. 18Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.
    These are those who are overcomers of this age we are in! These are the ones our LORD is looking for when He returns to us very shortly; such as these: the church of Ephesus heard this from Jesus; 7He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. But Jesus warned them to return to their first love in verse # five:5Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. Out of all the seven churches Jesus warned them all but one! Why was this and who was it? It was the church of Philadelphia! The answer to my question is in the very name of this church. The Apostle Paul told us as well as Jesus that when we love our brother as ourselves we have fulfilled all the law which all the prophets and scriptures hang on! Mt.22:36Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38This is the first and great commandment. 39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. Let us see what Apostle Paul wrote: Ro.13:8Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law. 11And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. 12The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light: And those found doing these things when our master returns will be found in His Grace and Mercy! They will indeed be overcomers of this world, as required in the book of Revelations:11He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death. 17He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it. 26And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: 27And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. 28And I will give him the morning star. 29He that hath an ear, let him hear what the
    Spirit saith unto the churches.Now let us look to chapter three of Revelation: 5He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels. 6He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. 12Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. 21To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. 22He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. The only church that did not receive a rebuke from our Lord was the Church of Philadelphia; which name means the church of brotherly love! If we do not learn to treat all man-kind as our brothers and to bless them who persecute us; we will not be found in favour of our Lord Jesus; for this love the church of Philadelphia had for the word of their God in full compliance to His every word, Jn.6:63It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life (Mt.4:4 & Lk.4:4). When we abide in Jesus and His word we will be found in His will and only those will be these (Mt.12:46-50 you don’t want to be found as one of these people, Mt.12:30-32 who are not in the will of God! For that is the only sin that is not forgivable, which is presumptuous sin, Num.15:32-36! One who disregards the word of God! We need to be overcomers in complete obedience to His Word of eternal life!): Rev.3:10Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. 11Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. 12Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. 13He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
    I will close with this from Hag.1:
    5Now therefore thus saith the LORD of hosts: Consider your ways!

    6Ye have sown much, and bring in little; ye eat, but ye have not enough; ye drink, but ye are not filled with drink; ye clothe you, but there is none warm; and he that earneth wages earneth wages to put it into a bag with holes. Kind of sounds like things going on today doesn’t it?

    7Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Consider your ways!

    Lord’s Way Ministries
    Rev. G. L. Boyett

  3. Marianne, I agree with you, except for one thing. That is not a mushroom cloud in the picture. What it is, I cannot say. But I agree that it is terrible to support the “rebels” in Syria, which “we” are doing as much as we dare…in some cases promised munitions have not been delivered, but they have been promised, and the gov’t must know that many of these people are terrorists. I read a report today that these same terrorists will be facing another way, against Jordan and Israel, when they have mopped up in Syria, and their numbers are predicted to double in the next six months. Many from outside are joining them, as from the Caucasus area.

    I am concerned about news from “Before It’s News”. Typically, it is about something true, but with added untrue material, such as the “mushroom cloud” assertion. If this is how a sky looks some time AFTER a mushroom cloud, then I beg pardon for my own error.

  4. Since 9/11, I believe that the U.S. is a country under God’s judgment (Isaiah 9:10).

  5. The explosions in this video from Aug 1st. certainly look like nuclear mushroom clouds to me. Have they been commented on in heaven awaits previously?

    • dear nicetiming

      No, not this particular video….the person who posted the video claimed that it was an Israeli attack….even with the arabs on the video saying “alahu akbar” praising the attack. this is an arab attack against other arabs……sad…..and funded by the USA.

  6. Marianne,
    The planned destruction of America past, present, and future, is in every US Currency Note. Check it out.

    • Bethany,

      Thanks for adding this video under this page topic.

      It’s right before our eyes – yet folks don’t see.

      The money changers (see court of the Temple, Matthew 12:21) are the ones giving power to The Beast.

      I think these money changers are the walking, talking “3rd Eye”, which is on the back of the currency standard of the world – The US Dollar.

      The 3rd Eye (on the Dollar) is the symbol of the illuminati.

      So, when the US goes under and the dollar collapses, the Dragon gives power to the Beast. The Dragon in this case is China.

      The Beast is working overtime these days and the world (industrial, G20) are focuses on wealth, materialism and status will gladly follow after The Beast.

      Look for another video post on this subject. The objective of the Beast.

      Revelation 12:11

  7. First off all the US does not condone or support terrorism.
    We give support to countries so they will not attack Israel, and we support the freedom fighters in the Arab spring nations, but unfortunately these countries do not understand democracy and they often let extremists take over, but we can never be sure if that will happen and quite often our lawmakers are overly optimistic about the outcomes. Someday maybe they will learn the truth and just stay out of these countries.
    As for Syria, it is the same situation. We are trying to topple a man who gasses his own people, but the only alternative may be the Muslim brotherhood or Al Qaeda. In other words, we can’t win no matter who we support but we don’t want to be seen as disinterested and doing nothing.
    So now we are content to keep the Syrian government from using chemical weapons but we are fine if they kill women and children with bombs and machine guns. Well the whole country is nothing but potential terrorists, so perhaps we need to arm both sides so they can exterminate themselves that much sooner.
    But the US will not cause the ruinous heap. We will never nuke Damascus as this article purports. But don’t count out Israel. There are 27,000 missiles outside Damascus aimed at Israel and if terrorists start releasing them, Israel will retaliate most likely with nukes to end the assault quickly.
    Then, if your logic is correct, God will destroy Israel rather than the US.
    But now the situation is more complicated since we are trying to get Assad to destroy his chemical weapons, so now we don’t really want the rebels to take him out of power because we don’t have a deal with the rebels regarding the chemical weapons. And we don’t want Al Qaeda getting their hands on them either. So as I said, there are no good options, so we need to just let things play out and see what happens.
    But Syria won’t be the start of WW3 or the 2nd horseman. They will be involved in the war of Gog/Magog, and perhaps God Himself will make Damascus a ruinous heap – like Sodom.
    But I doubt it will ever be the US.

    • Hello James,

      In a previous reply on another Heaven Awaits page, you suggested that Barry was not Muslim.

      You believe that If he (Barack Hussain Obama) was a Muslim that the Republican party would have (to late now) exposed this for their political advantage.

      In his own words, but with a nice recovery, assisted by the media, please listen and learn.

      Now, I must be going.

      Rev. 12:11

      • Obama is still a mason!

      • He doesn’t say he is a muslim only that someone said he is.

          • This video does not prove he is a muslim. He says my muslim faith and then correct himself and saying my Christian faith. Of course the correction is deleted because people who made this video wants it that way. But when he says hooly quran he dies in my eyes. From now on he is a joke to me. I value water more then people says holy quran. Maybe he turns the jacket after the wind. He says he is a Christian when it fits him. I start to get enough of americans voting for someone who says the holy quran.
            That was to much!

            • Sorry but something like that is probably not an accident. Been a Christian for decades. NEVER got that mixed up. Just saying.

        • he lies in video also….america was not founded by muslims…and they have never defended america in war.. their only contribution to america has been to create antisemitism in universities, and commit honor killings, and create jihad training camps.

  8. To All,

    This video summarizes many of the pages on Heaven Awaits: Beast, the 3rd Eye and the Illuminati, Babylon that great city (Revelation 18) and BHO: the last administration, the revelations with movies of future events and more.

    Revelation 12:11

  9. strange…I just saw this ad for a movie about the great american blackout.

    • Marianne,

      The National Geographic (elites) are getting bolder as they see the spiritual blindness of “We the people”.

      Just like Family Guy (Boston Marathon episode) and other TV productions, movie, music entertainment media – this NG Society piece is an introduction to the real event.

      When NYC (the Boston/NY corridor) goes down, the power grid just might go down.

      What do you think of the two videos (currency and 9/11) posted above?

  10. Marianne,

    Play with a dollar, making G. Washington’s head look like mushroom cloud, yes. I did that when I was a kid. Oh, that’s interesting?

    But, it is statistically impossible to play (fold the currency note in the same shape – satanic Pentagram), apply that same folded shape to more than one currency note (10, 20, 50 and100), which are printed/released in different years (before the event takes place) to see on each note (10, 20, 50 and 100) either an image (representation) of the Fed Building, Twin Towers or Pentagon attack. What are the odds? The odds are far to great to be simply playing with a bill.

    Hoover Dam is on another bill. It is another structure that will come down.

    Did you know they planted explosives within Hoover Dam – just in case in the future, one day they would need to destroy it?

    That reminds me of the collapsing of the Twin Towers. Architectural engineers have explained the collapse of the Twin Towers and build #7. They had explosive within those building for the same reason – to bring them down, when necessary. Even building #7.

    The destruction of Hoover Dam certainly will impact the power grid (Nevada, Arizona and So. Cal). But, that dam’s destruction with that particular canyon, water flooding down river is more of a symbol.

    Jonathan confirms (in his own personal way, given by the Lord), what many know is coming very soon. Babylon, that great city is about to be destroyed in one hour.

    Jonathan shares his message very directly because he has no spirit of fear or a spirit of rejection oppressing him. He tells people to prepare to meet their Maker and accept Jesus as their Messiah.

    Consider this video.

    Rev. 12:11

  11. All we can do is bless them that despitefully use us just as Jesus our Lord said to do and rely of God to take care of us as our countries motto says “in God we trust”, so I suggest praying and fasting! We fight a spiritual battle; our fighting is not of flesh and bone, but the pulling down of strong towers by faith in a working God who listens to prayer of a righteous man with up lifted hands!
    Lord’s Way Ministries
    Rev. G. L. Boyett

  12. Jim Giordano
    It has been prophesied the US will go down into heaps. Are we better than Israel was in 70 AD. Their desolation came upon them for rejecting Christ. They crucified the Word – The rejected all their prophets and killed them.

    Our church’s today are likened to the Sanhedrin of Israel. Which led their people right into desolation and destruction.

    When USA joins up with UN. Its absolutely over for America. That will do away with our Constitution, our Faith will be judged by the UN. Even our population will become subject to UN.

    American service men “right now” are being told they cannot attend their Christian church or speak about Jesus Christ – they could sent them to the brig. I just read it last night.

    After Grace comes and is rejected then comes Judgment. God Help America.
    God bless you Jim – and all br. ty

  13. Distractions from worshipping the Lord;
    This will be the Title I’m am talking about, and again that you for your patients. It will be up directlyas soon as the Lord gets finished with me.

  14. Lord’s Way Ministries
    Rev. G. L. Boyett
    I’m preparing to deliver a prophetic word which the Lord is using me to give, and it is all about Him and what He expects us to being doing form Him in these last days!
    He has given me a specific message to relay to everyone I meet, ands I will not be holding one thing back, but I can tell you this we have a loving God and He is saying in these final hours before His coming; He is saying COME TO ME, I AM A LOVING GOD, AND I WILL POUR OUT MY BLESSING ON ALL THOSE WHO ARE FULFILLING MY WILL WHEN I RETURN; WHO ARE WORKING IN MY FIELDS OF HARVEST: FOR THEIR NAMES WILL BE IN THE BOOK OF LIFE;
    He has much much more to say and I must be about my Father’s business when He returns; just as Jesus was at 12 years of age! If we call ourselves Christians then we must be about our Fathers business; Lk.9:62And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God. We have one way to look and that way is at Jesus Christ and His instructions to all His Disciples; Take this message to all nations and we had better be busy preaching, teaching, and most importantly living His holy Words of Life: Jn.6:63It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. Jesus is the bread of life which came down from heaven but it is by every word that cometh out of the mouth of God that is going to required to live by, in order to be perfect in His eyes, Mt.5:48Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. We were told by scripture the Lord is coming for His bride who has made herself ready, who is without spot or wrinkle, who is blameless! If there was any day in which we live in that we should know without a doubt what is required of our Lord it is today, this very day in which I speak! He has given me a specific message to tell as many as I can; that is why He had me start a blog or web sight or what ever you guys call it, this is not my usual means of preaching and teaching, but I have a word that needs to be heard; He is at the door and ready to come, but He is going to wait for just His time, so that none should be lost! People this is not what I want to do, to preach gloom and doom or try to scare anyone, I’m just telling you He is at the door and waiting for the right time to give Gabriel order to blow the trumpet just as soon as He tells Michael to give the shout and Gabriel has the rams horn to his lips as I speak!
    I will go into much more details at my sight the Lord had me to create for His honor and His word and His Glory! The day of judgment is very soon! It is not long before His bride will meet Him in the air, and I’m very sorry to say but Mt.7:14; Mt.20:16; and Mt.22:14 is what to expect, many in that day will say Lord Lord have I not done this and that for you; and He will say those words no one wants ever to hear in their eternal lives; depart from Me you worker of iniquity! My friends I’m trying to give everyone a warning, take heed lest you be found a liar, being deceiving by man’s doctrines and teachings of fools, I have much to say and I do not want to take up so much room on another’s sight, I beg your forgiveness for improper indicate or how things are done on the Internet, this is not my usual means of bringing the word of our God Jesus Christ! If you want to know more visit me at; As soon as I figure out how to work you tube or whatever it is called I will be posting there very soon in the near future I hope, sorry for being so long hear and taking your time out from your discussion, and thank you for your time!

    Lord’s Way Ministries
    Rev. G. L. Boyett

  15. I agree with everything you said Marianne except America being Babylon…Babylon is the congregation of the beast kingdom including the one third fallen Christians..
    America is the victim of Islam’s mahdi Obama…America is/was the strongest country on earth… Islam’s madhi could not set up his caliphate unless he controlled America first..This poem I wrote in 2008 says it well…
    WRITTEN IN 2008

    When anti Christ comes
    To lead the world astray.
    How will he come
    In that fateful last day?

    Will he come with a name
    Written on the top of his head?
    That says, “Worship me
    Or you soon will be dead.”,

    Will he come as a servant,
    Or as one lowly in birth?
    Or as a United States president,
    The most powerful position on earth..

    And then he will hold
    The world’s fate in his hand.
    To deceive and coerce,
    All that he can..

    With words and pictures,
    And all ways to deceive,
    He will cause the people
    In him to believe..

    A tree of life and
    A kingdom for all,
    If only they believe
    And follow his call..
    Alas, anointed he is not.
    And never shall be..
    He is appointed like Judas.
    And soon, we will all see and be free..

  16. Satan knew he was losing his Islamic kingdom after 9-11 when people researched the koran and Islam to see what insanity caused 9-11..
    So he sent Islam’s madhi to try to stop the truth from exposing his kingdom of Islam…HE LOSES BIG TIME FOREVER I….T IS WRITTEN…

  17. Very good and prophetic poem;
    Babylon is the one world order and the beast is the Roman Catholic (Which means Universal) Church the one world church and the antichrist is the pope and I will not even capitalize his title because no man is infallible only the word of God is truth and grace and truth comes by no man but Jesus Christ! Amen? When you see the abomination of desolation standing in the temple of god (not our god but theirs; we are the temple of our heavenly Father’s temple as spoken in 1 Cor.3 and chapter 6 and he walks in us if we are truly born-again of water and spirit in His name for there is no other name by which salvation comes but in a correct relationship with Him and His word, Ac.4:12 see Ac.2:38-40ffs!) but before I go off on that rabbit path, I will return to my topic! When you see the abomination of desolation standing in the temple of god (which the pope is doing; he is standing in all authority to the one Catholic Church saying he is god on earth!) Which is the antichrist one who represents all kingdoms and all religions, for this reason the Roman Catholic Church allowed pagan worship and the worship of the sun, moon, and stars, as well as the dead, Mary who the immortalize and teach she also translated back to heaven in her body at death, as well as changing times and seasons, such as the true birth of Christ as well as easter, which is another pagan worship, Jesus fulfilled all of the festivals or feast days in there proper place and at their proper time and the Roman Catholic Church changed all of them to pagan feast days! Even Christmas! Jesus was not born on Dec.25th! Even St. Peter called Rome Babylon, 1 Pt.5:13The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son. The pope who claims to be infallible is the antichrist as one of the very first popes claimed when the elected him to that see.

    Babulón: “gate of god(s),” Babylon, a large city situated astride the Euphrates river
    Original Word: Βαβυλών, ῶνος, ἡ
    Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
    Transliteration: Babulón
    Phonetic Spelling: (bab-oo-lone’)
    Short Definition: Babylon
    Definition: (a) Babylon, the ancient city on the Euphrates, to which the people of Jerusalem, etc., were transported, (b) hence allegorically of Rome, from the point of view of the Christian people.
    Do some history of the church studying, but we all know who is the real antichrist and that is Satan which gives the beast and its prophet and he who sits on the seat of authority their power!

    • What a bunch of ^%*&$

    • Rev. G.L Boyett – I’ve tried for almost 2 years to tell them just what you say in upper post with Catholic church, pope and all. Good luck trying to convince them of anything. Anti-Christ and all. That was a nice poem 1313 but Catholicism is the unseen Mark of Satan 666 – Its manmade perfect religion that deceives the masses in the whole world. It’s agnosticism =knowledge of the tree of death” . Not many know that the Roman Catholic supported the Koran – They called it their Satan bible. When you can see how the Dark ages of Catholicism tortured, abused, imprisoned, raped little children, etc. etc. . Does that sound like radical Islam today. No mercy –

      The Mark of the Beast is “Spiritual Character” – being filled with the Holy Spirit of Love. Pharisee had a devilish character and Jesus called them out for it. They were Satan’s in sheep’s clothing and deceived most all of Israel. Jesus said Satan was like a roaring Lion seeking who he may destroy. And sift you like wheat.

      Rev. boyett – Im for you if you can do anything to open minds up on this forum and transform them into the Mind of Christ. The foundation has been set for you. I will be praying for you. bro ty

  18. Mohammed said he was the holy ghost comforter…That is blasphemy and it is saying muhammad. is god….He also built his religion on the lie that Jesus is not son of god and god is not father…That qualifies Mohammed, Islam, the koran and all muslims as the spirit of antichrist…Islam has murdered Christians because of their testimony of Jesus and the word of God for 1400 years..They have beheaded millions…Mohammed was a complete counterfeit of Jesus including his promise to return..Mohammed said when he returns he would return in his family name…That name was HUSSEIN via his grandsons…He also said he would be as the sunrise in the west…Obama’s sunrise in the western world logo shows us that he is the return of mohammed… and of the Same spirit of antichrist….

    I wrote the following poem when Barack obama organized the arab springs…

    Barack Obama ruled as president of the USA,
    Long enough for the Arab Springs to provide him the way,
    To rule the world as caliph on judgment day,
    And force all to believe what Mohammed had to say…

    He proselytized ISlam every chance that he had.
    Upholding Muslim as good all others as bad.
    He slandered the Bible but enthroned the Koran.
    To lay the foundation of his soon coming plan..

    The plan that Islam long ago prophesied,
    Is to make us believe that the Bible lied
    And God sent the Koran in its place,
    Saying Islam alone is the only salvational base…

    Obama has come to reiterate the lie,
    That Mohammed said, “accept it or die,”
    And place the Koran in the holy space,
    In the heart of man which is God’s residing place..

    rev 20-7, 8 shows us that satan returns after 1000 years and gathers the men who god numbered as the sand of the sea…The arabs,,,an/or Islamic converts…He is the return of the beast of Rev 13 and 17 and he is the apollyon of Rev 9……
    When mohammed said he would be as the SUNRISE in the west he knew full well he would return as the APOLLYON…aka the ancient sun god aka satan..

  19. Chrislam creeping into the church

    Here is a link to an interview with a famous mega-church pastor, who is has become an apostate. He is leading people away from the LORD God of Israel, Yahweh, and His son Jesus the Christ, the Jewish Messiah who is revealed in the Bible.

    When confronted with his false teaching that Christians and Muslims worship the same god, he dodges the question, dances around it, and avoids giving a straight answer. He won’t state the truth, that Allah is NOT the same God as Yahweh the God of Israel. Instead, he speaks with forked tongue, and gives these kind of evasive answers:
    “Christians have a fundamentally different view of God than Muslims.” and
    “Christians have a view of God that is unique.”

    So Rick says that our “view of God” is different- but he won’t state that our GOD is different. He is an apostate.

    Rick Warren, and other “Evangelical leaders” who signed the “Common Word” document described in this video, are following the false teachings of Paul the Pharisee. [Romans 13:8-10 & Galatians 5:14] You can open you own Bible and see for yourself, this is not out of context.

    They are following Paul (or the Beatles- “all you need is love”) rather than following Jesus when they summarize everything in ONE commandment,
    “Loving God and Neighbor Together.”

    But Jesus summed up the Law and the Prophets with TWO commandments, not one.
    [Matthew 22:34-40 & Mark 12:28-34]

    So will you follow the PAULS like Rick Warren, Bill Hybels, Richard Mouw, and the Crystal Cathedral former pastor? Or will you FIRST listen to the words of Jesus recorded by the Gospel writers, and follow Jesus?

    Jesus said, “seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.” [Matthew 6:33]

  20. The koran is satan’s bible, no doubt about it…As for antichrist…That spirit is the spirit that denies Jesus is Son of God and God is Father… The catholics are those who kept this truth alive on earth for 2000 years.. They know Jesus is Son of God and God is Father.. THAT ALONE DISQUALIFIES THEM TO BE OF ANTICHRIST..I am not a catholic nor could I ever be…They are much too ritual for me…I want a relationship with the Lord not rituals..
    Had the catholics not fought the crusades the children of satan muslims would have already taken over the world and killed all who won’t bow to the allah beast… BETTER WAKE UP QUICK TIME IS SHORT…

  21. The anti-Christ will be so close to the real thing just like Judas and Jesus . One an anti-Christ the other was Christ – Jesus knew that.

    Esau and Jacob were brothers one a anti-Christ the other Jacob a believer and God changed His name to Israel.

    Cain and Abel were brothers in the very first church with covenant of blood. Cain had no revelation that sin was a blood problem. That caused sin.
    But Abel knew it was the Blood that sin came through. Not flowers and potatoes ,or grain,.

    In the Garden was the “tree of Life” = Eternal life
    In the Garden was also the “tree of death” by carnal knowledge =eternal death.

    Twins like Jacob and Esau. And Cain and Abel. That is how close the anti-Christ will be to real Christianity in the last days. So close that Jesus said it would deceive the very “elected” if it were possible. But its not possible to the real elect because they have a Revelation of truth given by Jesus through the Holy Ghost and Jesus said we “Know all things”.

    Thank you Jesus for you truths and revelations of the dispensations of time. We are now out of the church ages and “Raised up” into the Throne room where Christ and Wife are Husband and wife.

    Do we understand the Love of Christ will bring Marriage. In this life.
    Unbelief and doubt will marry their spouse and they will be sifted like wheat by their love of the “knowledge” of satan . Men “loved Darkness” more than the light .

    bro ty

    • Hi Tom,
      I agree with you that “The anti-Christ will be so close to the real thing just like Judas and Jesus .”
      Here are some examples of what the voice of the Antichrist will sound like:

      1) I became your father. Therefore I urge you to imitate me. My way of life agrees with what I teach everywhere in every church. [1 Corinthians 4]

      2) Even though I am not physically present, I am with you in spirit. And I have already passed judgment. [1 Corinthians 5]

      3) Everything is permissible for me. [1 Corinthians 6]

      4) I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. [1 Corinthians 9]

      5) I plead with you brothers, become like me, for I became like you. [Galatians 4]

      6) Let no one cause me trouble, for I bear on my body the marks of Jesus. [Galatians 6]

      7) Join with others in following my example, brothers. [Philippians 3]

      8) Whatever you have learned or received or heard from me, or seen in me – put it into practice. [Philippians 4]

      9) Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church. [Colossians 1]

      10) Though I am absent from you in body, I am present with you in spirit, and delight to see how orderly you are and how firm your faith in Christ is. [Colossians 2]

      11) We command you, brothers, to keep away from every brother who is idle and does not live according to the teaching you received from us. For you yourselves know how you ought to follow our example.

      OOPS! These words are already in our Bibles- they are the voice of Paul the Pharisee, the self-appointed Apostle and self-proclaimed “Apostle to the Gentiles.”

      Whose voice will you listen to FIRST? The voice of the PAULS?
      or the Voice of Lord Jesus the Christ, the Jewish Messiah, the Son of Yahweh the God of Israel?

      Jesus included us Gentiles too when He said:
      “I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to MY VOICE, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.” [John 10:16]

    • Tom & Matthew, I agree with what you both state. Islam is the enemy of Israel and is devoted to Israel’s destruction and killing all the Jews. Islam is the religion of Satan. It’s number is 666. The aim of Islam is world domination. Babylon is Babylon in Iraq or Old Testament Persia. Babylon has been rebuilt and will become the HQ of the coming antichrist system/Islam. After 9/11 God called on the US/Ephraim to knock Islam back to the stone age but the liberals in Bush’s government prevented that from happening. President Bush and the the Secretary of State both got memos from a child of God telling them what God wanted them to do. Look what happened in WW II, Germany and Japan got flattened, do they want to start another war? No! The same should of happened in the Middle East, flatten a couple of cities and the fear of God would have gone into the Moslems. The US failed. Now we see the US pulling out of the Middle East and President Obama telling Israel they must go back to the 1949 borders which means Israel capitulates to Islam and surrenders Jerusalem to Islam. The KJV Bible tells me at this stage it will not happen. I would suggest time is running out for President Obama and his archilles heel is Obamacare. Maybe now the court case confirming his alien status will move forward. God’s hand is against Obama and Kerry, wait, and we will see God at work. Stop listening to false prophets and start reading what the Bible says. Take your eyes off Catholicism and watch out for Islam. President Obama stated to the UN that the US would be an Islamic state by 2016! Check what an Islamic terrorist turned Christian has to say on Islam at: “Shoebat Foundation”. Possibly the most evil country is Saudi Arabia who financed the 9/11 terrorists, who finance most of the terrorism around the world and who are building Mosques in every Western country, these Mosques are training centres for Jijhad. Now go and try and build a Christian church in Saudi Arabia or just stand on the main street and hand out Bibles and see how long you live! Wake up Christians, the enemy is Islam, not Rome! You have been deluded by false preachers. God bless those who understand prophecy.

  22. Distractions from worshipping the Lord: In Spirit and in Truth is now on line at:

  23. Greetings in the wonderful name of Yeshua to Marianne and all her followers in the Body of Yeshua,

    I am honored and pleased to announce the final release of my Israel-centered last-days prophetic research of Revelation 13, 666, and Daniel’s 70th Week/Great Tribulation – a 2-Part series called “Sealed Till the Time of the End” which was 7 years in the making.

    Part 1 reveals the identity of the last-days beast empire, which is NOT the Roman Catholic church/religion – and I prove it from the WORD and the historical record – hence we have all been looking in the wrong direction. My research compliments the wonderful works of Islamic expositors Walid Shoebat and Joel Richardson, and Joel has in fact provided me with a glowing endorsement for Part 1. This book includes a never-before-performed biblical study on 666 revealing many astounding details. It also reveals the Mark and Name of the Beast, and so much more.

    Part 2 contains 17 evidences (including 3 scientific) for the year 6000 and its year on the Gregorian calendar, and the TIMING of the prophecies in Rev 13, Daniel 9, the Great Tribulation, the abomination of desolation, Yeshua’s return, the marriage feast, and beyond. These events are intimately tied to the constellation patterns and their precise cycles, the scheduled sun eclipses and tetrad blood red moons due on 1 Nisan, Passover and Succot 2014/2015 (initially discovered by Ps. Mark Biltz of El Shaddai Ministries in 2008 – my research adds further details), the Jewish Feasts of Yom Kippur, the 8 days of Passover, Succot, and Hanakah, and an Islamic feast. I also prove from the Word that it is definitely NOT a sin to speculate and ask of the Lord for the timing of these things – brought about by the violation of the Law of Context. The previous 224 false predictions of the last days since Yeshua’s ascension were based on out of context verses and many unresearched and unsubstantiated claims, which are in stark contrast to my research. Also included in Part 2 is a big study on the alternate places to Petra for the remnant in Israel to flee (Petra is only a theory which began in the 1920’s), how to get to them and how much time is available to get there. The 666 study is also completed from a time period angle which proves beyond a doubt my findings from Part 1 are indeed correct.

    To view my research go to my author site:

    May you be truly blessed by my work, and draw closer to our Messiah who is due to return much sooner than we ever dared to imagine.

    Sincerely, Deborah Jean Stearn.

  24. 18Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
    19They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
    20But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
    21I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
    22Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
    23Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
    24Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
    25And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
    26These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
    27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
    28And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
    29If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
    Those who do not know the Father is the Son of man and Lord of All, Ac.10:36 are they that went out from amoung us and have left all righteousness in their practices with burnings at the stake and well as the protestants and the Lutheran’ s to the Anabaptist’s, Mennonites, were they were wll know to drown them and call it the third baptism! Just as the rest of the Trinitarians! Zech.14:9And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one. Just as Gal.3:20Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. Mt.1: 23Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us. As shown in the Old Testament: Is.7:14; Is 40:3The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. Who did John the Baptist make a way for? It was God with us not the secound person of some man made Trinity by a man made council of Nicolaitanes, which comes from the Niko, to conquer, to over throw, and Laos, the people or laity. These things Jesus hates, this is exactly what the Apostle Paul was warning the Ephesus elders about before he went to Jerusalem in Ac.20: 17And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church.

    18And when they were come to him, he said unto them, Ye know, from the first day that I came into Asia, after what manner I have been with you at all seasons,

    19Serving the LORD with all humility of mind, and with many tears, and temptations, which befell me by the lying in wait of the Jews:

    20And how I kept back nothing that was profitable unto you, but havehewed you, and have taught you publicly, and from house to house,

    21Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

    22And now, behold, I go bound in the spirit unto Jerusalem, not knowing the things that shall befall me there:

    23Save that the Holy Ghost witnesseth in every city, saying that bonds and afflictions abide me.

    24But none of these things move me, neither count I my life dear unto myself, so that I might finish my course with joy, and the ministry, which I have received of the Lord Jesus, to testify the gospel of the grace of God.

    25And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.

    26Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.

    27For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.

    28Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

    29For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

    30Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

    31Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

    32And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.

    33I have coveted no man’s silver, or gold, or apparel.

    34Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me.

    35I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.

    36And when he had thus spoken, he kneeled down, and prayed with them all.

    37And they all wept sore, and fell on Paul’s neck, and kissed him,

    38Sorrowing most of all for the words which he spake, that they should see his face no more. And they accompanied him unto the ship.

    • Under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, Luke accurately recorded Paul’s boastful exaggerated self-promoting testimony: “31Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. ”

      But Luke also make an accurate record of the truth in Acts 19:8-10. Paul was really only there for two years and three months, approximately. Please open your Bible and read it for yourself.

      Paul exaggerated and stretched the truth about himself. In the same speech to the Ephesian elders, Paul falsely implies that the Holy Spirit was compelling him to go to Jerusalem. Any 7th grade student can read Luke’s accurate record in Acts 19:21-Acts 22:21, and see that Paul was not telling the truth about himself here.

      If you can’t bear to admit that Paul was lying, at least agree on the truth that Paul was clearly in the wrong here, and his journey of Jerusalem was a journey of clear disobedience to God. He may have been bound in spirit by an evil spirit, but neither Jesus nor the Holy Spirit compelled Paul to go to Jerusalem- in fact, just the opposite is clearly true, if you read Luke’s text.

      • First of all Luke wrote what the Holy Spirit told Him to write and there are many things that were not recorded in the bible that Jesus did that if they were all recorded would fill the earth as recorded by John as wee see in Jn.21:25And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen. so with this being said we cannot find fault with scripture because all scripture is Holy Spirit inspired as we see in Paul’s writings also: 2 Tm.3:16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
        So with this said just because Paul said one thing about his length of being called to those regions starting Churches which the Holy Spirit made him over seer of does not mean Luke spoke out of turn nor does it mean Paul was exaggerating! Luke was not a true Historian, he was a doctor doing the best he could in that day and age, trying to heal people who were sick, and as well trying to convert as many as he could to Christianity as well, Luke was also a painter! He made some of the earliest painting of Mary and of the Lord Jesus as well (I can only guess were these artifacts could be found, but I bet it sit on top of seven hills!); along with many other things he was working in. Peter said it best: 2 Pt.3:15And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; 16As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
        So with all this understood we cannot go about saying the word of God contradicts itself or you are saying God is a liar, and if ever scripture is the Holy Spirit’s inspiration then we had better not make any false accusation, and if our understanding of the sacred scripture does not line up to our understanding then who is wrong God’s word or we who are trying to understand it! For this reason we need to be baptized in the holy Spirit with evidences realized in Ac.11:15-18 that was shown to be the proof of the Holy Spirit’s baptism which all of them had received in the upper room; for this reason they praised God and said that the gentiles has received the Holy Spirit the same as they had! For this reason we all must be baptized in the Holy Spirit just as Jesus said: Jn.3:3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born? 5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. These are those who are born not of man but of God; Jn.1:12-13! It takes the Holy Spirit to lead us into all truths which some are hidden in the scriptures and some are in Chronological order some are not! Just because Luke said one thing does not make it a lie nor does it make Paul a liar which is blaspheme of the written word of God given to us to say that it contains liars in it, because the Holy Bible is by the inspiration of God which is Spirit according to Jesus, Jn.4:24 and there is but one Holy and a Spirit which is the Holy Spirit which is God the Father which was in Jesus Christ, Jn.14:6-9 ffs and there is only one blasphemy clause in the Bible which is the word of God. So I think I would step real lightly when I would say the Lord’s Apostle was a liar I refer you to Mt.12:31Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. And these verses here: 48But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? 49And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 50For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother. Our job is to life up the glorious name of Jesus Christ our Saviour and to win the lost to Christ, not trey and find fault with His word! or His Anointed and Ordained! We are to allow the Holy Spirit to lead us into all truths as He said to do which Is.28 revealed to us as well: 9Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. 12To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. 13But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
        Only those who have been baptized in the Holy Spirit have the correct interpreter to translate (Exegesis) the word of God being He wrote it, and it will be here and there and in different places He will lead you to find how it is all put together correctly as He wants it revealed to you, but it will never contradict itself anywhere if it does I will assure you that we have the Wong interpretation of what we are trying to understand, scripture will never be in error, God’s word is irrefutable and in errant! And with this said all scripture if correctly understood will always give Glory to God and so will we if we understand it correctly,not try to find fault with it!

        Lord’s Way Ministries
        Rev. G. L. Boyett

        • Dear Rev. G.L. Boyett,
          With all due respect to you and your opinions… after reading what you wrote, the words of an old song of my generation came to mind… “he talks a lot, but he doesn’t say anything” [Talking Heads]

          I’ve quoted chapter and verse, documenting 2 of Paul’s specific sins, which are accurately recorded in the Bible by Luke. We see many specific sins accurately recorded in the Bible- David’s adultery & murder, Peter denying 3 times that he knew Jesus, etc. etc.

          Are you saying that Paul is always “the exception?” If Paul did something it must have been right? If Paul testified about himself it must be true, even if Paul has no other witnesses in his favor, but he has witnesses against him in the Bible? Are you saying that Paul is the only man in all history whose testimony does not need to be established by the testimony of 2 or 3?

          Also you referred to Paul as “the Lord’s Apostle.”
          Can you quote me chapter and verse where Jesus called Paul an Apostle? Or where any of the original Apostles called Paul an Apostle? Or even where ANY New Testament author (besides Paul himself) referred to Paul individually in any way as an “apostle?” (Note I said individually. If you want to quote Acts 14, we will also need to look at Acts chapters 1. 6. 9, 13 & 15.)

          I’m a “Jesus Person”- not the original crew, but the next wave. What about you?

          • Ac.9: 15But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: 16For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name’s sake.
            I think if Jesus told Ananias that Pual was a chosen vessel, plus Paul’s seein Jesus as one born out of due time :1 Cor.15:8And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time. As had the rest of the Apostles, and those who had seen the Lord gave to Paul as well as Barnabus the right hand of fellowship! Why can’t you have fellowship with one of those who were called of Jesus?

            • Dear Rev. G.L. Boyett,
              Since you’ve been silent in the face of the facts I’ve presented from the text of the Bible, I have to conclude that you have no way to disagree with these 3 points:

              1) Paul exaggerated his ministry in Ephesus, claiming to be there working hard for 3 years, when really he was only there about 2 years and 3 months, (according to Luke who recorded both the actual duration of Paul’s ministry there, and also recorded Paul’s self-serving boasting.)

              2) Jesus told Paul to get out of Jerusalem, and the Holy Spirit told Paul to stay out of Jerusalem. But Paul ignored them, clearly disobeyed God, stubbornly insisted on going to Jerusalem anyway, and justified his trip by leading people to falsely believe that he was going to Jerusalem compelled by the Holy Spirit.

              3) Neither Jesus, nor the original Apostles, nor any other New Testament author (except Paul himself) ever identified Paul as “an apostle” or said or wrote that Paul was appointed an apostle, or had “apostleship” or apostolic authority. Only Paul made these claims about himself.

              You quoted two passages above. From Acts 9, where Paul is referred to as a “chosen vessel.” Every single true Christian is a “chosen vessel”, not just Paul. I’m a chosen vessel too. Chosen vessel does not mean Apostle. And, you quoted 1 Corinthians 15, which is Paul writing about himself. Paul does not have a single other witness in his claim to be “an apostle.”

              Paul did not know what an Apostle was. He used the term liberally, and redefined the word to include himself as an apostle in the elite top level, indirectly usurping the throne of Matthias. By the time Luke wrote Acts, Paul’s liberal re-definition of what “apostle’ meant had already taken root in the churches due to all of Paul’s self-promoting propaganda in his letters.

              (And the current dictionary definitions of “apostle” are based on Paul’s re-definition- not based on the words and actions of Jesus and the original Apostles recorded in the Bible.)

              Therefore, Luke carefully laid out what a “true Apostle” was in Acts chapters 1, 6, 9, 13, & 15. There are only 12 Apostles and the 12th is Matthias. But in a slight accommodation to Paul’s liberal redefinition of the term, Luke made passing reference to “the apostles Barnabas and Paul” in Acts 14. That way, people would realize that even if they accepted Paul’s re-definition of the term “apostle”, Paul was not on the same level of authority as “The Twelve.”

              Other than Paul himself, no one anywhere in the Bible ever referred to Paul individually as an apostle in any way. That is simply a fact regarding the text of the Bible that no one can deny. So it seems we are in agreement- right?

              • matthew

                I think you are too hung up on “what is wrong with Paul.”

                he was to go to the gentiles and tell them about Jesus….he did that…so how good a job he did is up for the Lord to judge.

                I do not think the apostles were hung up on titles either…they were busy in ministry and dying for their faith….

                Paul eventually died for his faith too.

                • I will not reply any more to Matthew Perry I see no point in it, he has his mind made up and its clear he believes Pauls words should be struck out of the Bible and all of His Doctrines are of no weight, to this I prayed and this is what the Lord has shown me to give to Mr. Perry:
                  I asked the Lord to give me something just for this situation, that might help you with your misunderstanding of the truth and the correct way to receive this matter: This is what He gave me to give to you: Is.29:19The meek also shall increase their joy in the LORD, and the poor among men shall rejoice in the Holy One of Israel. 20For the terrible one is brought to nought, and the scorner is consumed, and all that watch for iniquity are cut off: 21That make a man an offender for a word, and lay a snare for him that reproveth in the gate, and turn aside the just for a thing of nought. 22Therefore thus saith the LORD, who redeemed Abraham, concerning the house of Jacob, Jacob shall not now be ashamed; neither shall his face now wax pale. 23But when he seeth his children, the work of mine hands, in the midst of him, they shall sanctify my name, and sanctify the Holy One of Jacob, and shall fear the God of Israel. 24They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding, and they that murmured shall learn doctrine.
                  I will leave my final thoughts on this matter at my sight; if anyone cares to read the rest of the story. As Paul Harvey always ended his stories; because I’m done on this topic; we need to be about our Lord’s business of winning souls not arguing amounst oursleves or Satan wins again!

                • Marianne,
                  I agree with you- “I do not think the apostles were hung up on titles.”
                  There are only 12 Apostles, Matthias is the 12th, and these 12 men were not hung up on titles.

  25. You see Jesus said you would know them by their fruits, St. John said those who are not of the truth are liars; those who do not abide in the truth as given and handed down by the Apostles are the antichrist and there are many antichrists in the world, not just the Roman Catholic Church; I not just picking on them; we have to come to know our church history and know who did what to who! As far back as my research goes the only true theologically correct church in history that I saw recorded or what ever is left of books and writings of others which were hidden away from the burnings of the Churches back then to all those who they considered heretics, were the Anabaptist who owned nothing personally but of a collective body of believers would purchase only enough property to have their communities and farm land enough to farm quietly among themselves and worship the Lord our God and to win souls! They were hunted down persecuted just as Jesus said the true Church would be; so I will tell you who lines up the closest to the word of God and not man’s word but the Apostles word and the word of our Lord and God, Jesus Christ will be the true church of God which He purchased with His own blood as we see in Ac.20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. This will be the true Apostolic Church of God built and rules over by the Lord Jesus Christ Himself no one else! Mt.7:12Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. 13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. 15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. 21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. 24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
    Jesus Christ is that rock we either keep to His word only or find ourselves to be fighting God just as the Sanhedrin did as Gamaliel said to them in Acts chapter 5:34Then stood there up one in the council, a Pharisee, named Gamaliel, a doctor of the law, had in reputation among all the people, and commanded to put the apostles forth a little space; 35And said unto them, Ye men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what ye intend to do as touching these men. 36For before these days rose up Theudas, boasting himself to be somebody; to whom a number of men, about four hundred, joined themselves: who was slain; and all, as many as obeyed him, were scattered, and brought to nought. 37After this man rose up Judas of Galilee in the days of the taxing, and drew away much people after him: he also perished; and all, even as many as obeyed him, were dispersed. 38And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: 39But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God. 40And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles, and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go. This was in fact one of the wisest moves they could have done! Lk.20:17And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner? 18Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. 19And the chief priests and the scribes the same hour sought to lay hands on him; and they feared the people: for they perceived that he had spoken this parable against them.
    Year after year the Roman Catholic Church persecuted the true Church of the loving, Living, God! Due your due diligence and study and show yourself approved rightly dividing the word of God as Paul instructed Timothy in 2 Tm.2:15 but it takes more that just studying Bible it takes research as to what all church es have done, only the true church of the one Lord, one faith, who has the correct one baptism according to the Apostles plan not man’s but God’s anointed and Ordained (Jn.15:1-*16*-20!) Holy Ghost filled Apostles had any authority at all, and it was given to them by Jesus Christ!
    I often wondered why Jesus made a big deal about numbering the fish that was left in the net that was full grown and mature in the last chapter of John. Jn.21:11Simon Peter went up, and drew the net to land full of great fishes, an hundred and fifty and three: and for all there were so many, yet was not the net broken. I remembered what the Lord said Ask and it will be given you, Mt.7:7-8 so I asked; this is what He gave to me: The Lord said there were seventy that went into Egypt that grew to be a nation, which is represented of the seventy Palm trees and the 12 wells at where they camped in Ex.15:27And they came to Elim, where were twelve wells of water, and threescore and ten palm trees: and they encamped there by the waters. These things are symbolic for other things as well! Just like the seventy disciples who Jesus sent out at the first to prepare the way to the towns in which He was going to visit, Just like today He has given us signs as to His coming in His word! Now you have 70+70=140 leaves 13, to this Jesus added this commit, “I told Peter and the rest of the disciples to go to Jerusalem and wait there until they were endowed with power from on high, Lk.24:49And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high. These things Peter did not do because he is Peter and Peter is always anxious and in a hurry, Only I can Ordain My Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Preachers and Teachers, as well as the rest of my Grace I will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, (Ex.33:19), I had known who I wanted to have as the 12 th Apostles to replace Judas and it is as you suspected it was Saul of Tarsus he was to be the 12 th but Peter had called for a Lot to be taken, that which was done was done of man and not of Myself, for this reason Matthias’ Apostleship was never heard of again in the record of My churches! So you have 70+70+13= 153 full grown and mature fish ready for the Lord’s service to go out and spread the net of my word to catch the world and whosoever that will receive Me and My Love, and Remission of sin. Does a Church resemble their heavenly Father and all His teachings? God is Love and In Him is no unrighteousness! I once read a story about a Cardinal who was asked once what the soldiers should do with all the captives of a city that they had captured, all the women, children and old men that were left, and the Cardinal said, “Kill them all! The Lord will sort them out!” Massacre at Béziers! We need to know our histories and who we will belong to! My Lord says do no evil thinking a good may come out of it: we are to repay evil with kindness and win them over with good, and I will only use one verse to prove this, Ro.12:21Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good. That is my Lord simple direct even a child can get it, it is man that has the problem of obedience to His word! For this reason Jesus said the greatest in His kingdom will be a child because of their simplicity and loving kind innocent heart, with acceptance for what they are to receive!
    God is Love and only those who say they are His will show only love and no other quality will enter into His Kingdom, forgive your brothers and sisters and let Love rule you and reign or you are none of His yet still!

  26. Dear Rev. G.L. Boyett,
    I take exception to your statement above:
    “I had known who I wanted to have as the 12 th Apostles to replace Judas and it is as you suspected it was Saul of Tarsus he was to be the 12 th but Peter had called for a Lot to be taken, that which was done was done of man and not of Myself, for this reason Matthias’ Apostleship was never heard of again in the record of My churches!

    What can you tell be about Thaddaeus’ Apostleship?
    Parable of the 12 heavenly chalkboards

    What is a common analogy for a permanent decision?
    “Written in stone.”
    What could be more permanent than that?
    How about written in stone in heaven (in other words, for eternity.)
    And what kind of a stone is the most solid, permanent, and unchangeable?
    Perhaps a foundation stone?
    The Book of Revelation written by the Apostle John, chapter 21 verse 14 says… [Please open our own Bible and look it up for yourself.]

    Parable of the 12 heavenly chalkboards

    Imagine “Wackyjesus” in “Wackyheaven”, built on the foundations of 12 chalkboards:

    “Matthias, you should have developed your skills in writing and public speaking. Your name never appears in the Bible after your appointment as the 12th Apostle in Acts 1. [erase erase erase]

    Actually, the same is true for you Thaddaeus, after you were appointed. You should have hired a PR firm to promote your name and make if famous. [erase erase erase]

    Of course, you both are specifically mentioned in Acts 6:2. “So the Twelve gathered all the disciples together.” And this is before Saul/Paul is even mentioned. But let us not confuse the issue with facts. Paul did a much better job of marketing himself, and he wrote about himself hundreds of times. Share of voice equals share of mind. And most Evangelical pastors who read the Bible spend most of their time listening to the voice of Paul, so they become “like Paul.” But I digress…

    James, we had a good run. I didn’t think King Herod would knock you off so quickly. [erase erase erase]

    Oh well. Wow, they’re dropping like flies. Now I’ve got 3 slots open. I’d better buy a case of chalk and some more erasers. I’ll have to change the names on these 12 chalkboards hundreds of times in the next couple of millennia.

    I guess I had better plan ahead, and save a slot for the last Pope, Francis. And the head Mormon Apostle. And I need to save a throne for my mom, or she’ll be mad. And one for Muhammad too. Who needs truth in relationship, when I can quickly get market share, and totally dominate the market, through mergers and acquisitions?

    And one throne for that other guy named Peter. When he was younger, he used to have the great theological insight about territorial spirits and wrestling with dark angels. What was his last name? Begins with a consonant. Sounds almost like he was in the personal transportation industry back in “sword and sandal epic” days… “Peter Charioteer?” Maybe not. This isn’t the “fullest” description of him, but it’s full enough. Anyway, I should save a throne for him too.”

    So what is the application of this parable?
    Beware of the NAR whale – it’s really a killer whale with a man-made horn strapped on top. The only place in the New Testament that mentions anything like “Seven Mountains” is Revelation 17, “seven hills on which the woman sits.” (The Great Prostitute, that is.) Rome is the city that sits on seven hills, the perfect place for Peter the Roman, the New World Pope for the New World Order, to replace the original Apostle Peter in the apostate church of the Antichrist.

    • me thinks thou art one of the tares satan planted in the church…Your words betray you..or I should say reveal who you are..

      You do not have the truth ….

      The Catholic church and pope do not qualify to be of the spirit of antichrist… Antichrist denies Jesus is Son of God and God is father…the C.C. kept this truth on earth for over 2000 years..

      Islam most definitely does qualify and Paul that you hate and discredit exposed Islam from h— to breakfast..

      As for the seven hills the woman sits on…..

      Rev 17-3.. I saw a woman SIT upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
      Rev 17- 9 The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth….Seven high places of Baal..

      Revelation 17-9..And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
      HERE IS THE MIND THAT HAS WISDOM…..This wisdom is the same wisdom gleaned from satan’s tree of knowledge….That wisdom was the astrology lore aka baal and the seven demons…The high places are the sun, moon, and five planets they taught…
      Rev 12-9 tell us the dragon and his angels are that old serpent…
      2 Corinthians 11-3,4,14 tells us that islam is the same deception as was Eves…
      And many more verses to prove these things

  27. Rev. G. L. Boyett -Matthew Perri –

    What is the main point in your post ? That men have weakness and God still uses them – I can except that amen – But in my weakness I am made strong cause I have to Have Jesus Christ – the Holy Spirit in my Soul and body to become strong.

    Peter’s Rock was the “Revelation” =faith of who Jesus was. The Son of God . And the gates of hell shall not prevail over that “revelation”.

    Moses was the man in his day. He wrote of himself – that he was the meekest man on earth. Oh what a heady mind he had. But it was the Holy Spirit that told him what to write. Moses started the Nation of Israel.

    Paul was used of God in the same way – Starting the Gentile Revelation of Jew and Gentile. All the Gospels is just writings of what Jesus did and said. But Paul is the one who interpreted and had the “REVELATION” of the Mystery of Christ. Paul’s writing are about 1/3 rd. of New Testament.

    EPH. 4:8- Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave GIFTS unto men.
    EPH. 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
    EPH 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
    EPH.4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the FULNESS of Christ:

    God uses man – Jesus was a Man. His body was flesh and bone and God stepped into it. The Lord said a “body shall I prepare” for Himself to step into it. All God inside a human flesh body. The first born of all Creation the Alpha and Omega.

    COL 1:25- Whereof I am made a minister, according to the DISPENSATION of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; = “to the Next generation of Jew and Gentile believers”
    COL 1:26- Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
    COL 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
    COL 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every MAN PERFECT in Christ Jesus:

    Lord bless you both — bro ty

  28. Dear Rev. G.L. Boyett,
    What can you tell us about Thaddaeus’ Apostleship?

    My main point was:
    I take exception to your statement above:
    “I had known who I wanted to have as the 12 th Apostles to replace Judas and it is as you suspected it was Saul of Tarsus he was to be the 12 th but Peter had called for a Lot to be taken, that which was done was done of man and not of Myself, for this reason Matthias’ Apostleship was never heard of again in the record of My churches!”

    What can you tell us about Thaddaeus’ Apostleship?
    The Apostle Thaddaues was never heard of again anywhere in the Bible after he was appointed by Jesus as Apostle. Does that mean Jesus made a mistake in appointing Thaddaues?

  29. I quoted “The Rev’s” post above-
    (Rev. G. L. Boyett said this on October 29, 2013 at 3:56 pm)
    What I quoted from “the Rev” is about 17 lines up from the bottom of his post, and I disagree with his idea.

    In his post, “The Rev” put forth the idea that Paul is the rightful 12th Apostle and it was a mistake to appoint Matthias. The “proof” that “the Rev” offers to show that Matthias was a mistake is,
    ” Matthias’ Apostleship was never heard of again in the record of My churches!” according to “The Rev.”

    To which I respond- what can you tell me about Thaddaeus’ Apostleship? Thaddaeus was appointed by Jesus as one of the Twelve, according to [Matthew 10 & Mark 3]. Luke the gentile refers to the same man as “Judas son of James” [Luke 6 & Acts 1]

    Both men ARE specifically referred to in Acts 6:2 where Luke mentions “The Twelve.” But their names are not mentioned. (This is before Luke wrote anything at all about Paul.)

    Try doing a word search for Matthias or Thaddaeus in the Bible. They were qualified to be Apostles according to the definition of Jesus and the original Apostles, since they had been with Jesus since the beginning. But they didn’t go around promoting themselves and writing letters referring to themselves hundreds of times like Paul did.

    (The Apostle Peter gives a general overview indicating what an Apostle is in Acts 1. This is in harmony with Jesus, and with all other New Testament authors EXCEPT PAUL.) Paul had his own opinions about apostles, and that he was one, but no one else in the pages of the Bible agreed with Paul’s opinions about apostles.

    To simply say “Paul was an apostle because he said so, and if you disagree you’re a heretic” is essentially the same attitude as Muslims: “Muhammad was the prophet because he said so, and if you disagree you’re a heretic.”

    But our Lord Jesus, the Messiah and Son of God, reminded us of the Law of Moses- “Let every matter be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.” [Deuteronomy 19:15, Matthew 18:16

    • matthew and thaddaeus were already apostles, and did not need to be voted in.

      so why do you mention them?

      the 11 apostles prayed in Acts 1;12-26, and made a decision between Joseph and Matthais. Matthais was chosen to replace Judas.

      not all apostles left writings behind. phillip and bartholomew are examples. Just because one did not write does not mean they were not busy.

      to assume this would be wrong.

      paul just happened to be a writer, so there is a record of what he taught.

      i would disagree that paul should be considered a replacement for judas.

      that is not why Jesus called him…..he had a different assignment as an evangelist

  30. The mistake that the Apostles made were wrong. Trying to “vote in” and make an Apostle out of someone who Christ did not appoint as an Apostle. That is exactly what is wrong with the modern church today. They send them to their own schools and then send them out to be Apostles, Prophets, Teachers, Pastors, and Evangelist and they were not chosen for that office at all.

    The Lord knew who would be His Apostle to write 1/3 of the New Testament. He knows the beginning from the End always. God does not make a wrong decision but men do even when they are good righteous men they must do it Gods way.

    This passage is what motivates most “denominations” which were things that Jesus hated – systems of men voting in men. Nothing but Politics that will always turn into Evil.
    Jesus said

    . REV. 2:6- But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the NICOAITANS , which I also hate. Nico= Conquer the Laity= 1st horse rider.

    REV. 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

    REV2:15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the NICOLAITANS , which thing I hate.

    REV. 2:16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword = Word – of my mouth.

    It is men over men that God hates – and we are seeing the final destruction of man ruling man today in the evil world. Were are in Satan’s Eden right now because of Men following their own way.

    God does all the choosing for all His bride and places them in the body as it pleases HIM. When God makes you a ear and you want to be a mouth you had better stay an ear. Are you our out of place in the body. Paul explains it real easy.

    bro ty

    • Thank you at least some one got it! I explain more at, thanks again!

    • Tom,
      I agree with you that the practice of “modern churches today” who “make an Apostle out of someone” is wrong. But what you have yet not realized is that “modern churches today” are simply following the bad example of Paul the Pharisee.

      Paul was “not chosen for that office at all.” There are only 12 Apostles, Matthias is the 12th, and the only Apostle who was ever removed was Judas Iscariot.

      IF YOU LISTEN TO JESUS, rather than listen to the voice of Paul, you will realize that no one ever made Paul an apostle, and there are no apostles today, nor will there be any more in the future. [Revelation 21:14]

      Only 3 of the 12 true Apostles wrote Scripture as far as I know- Matthew, John, and Peter. Do you want to kick out the other 9 Apostles and replace them with Paul, just because Paul wrote a lot of letters? Writing was not a requirement for being an Apostle according to Jesus.

  31. I wrote a Prophetic article called, “The Lord will have the word or will it be a question?” and it is on my sight at the bottom of the page and after I sent it to another colleague in Ca. he sent me this article: I though brother Ty might like it.
    Stanley Frodsham who lived from 1882-1969 and was born in England was at the center of the Pentecostal revival of his day. He was a friend to many of the great Pentecostal preachers including Smith Wigglesworth, the Jeffery Brothers, Howard Carter and others. He was affectionately called God’s Prophet with a Pen.

    Writer, editor and teacher who ministered in the Pentecostal movement for over 60 years. For 30 years he was editor of the Pentecostal Evangel. He is mostly remembered for the 15 books he wrote, the best known being a history of the Pentecostal movement, ‘With Signs Following,’ (1926, enlarged in 1928, revised 1946) a collection of Smith Wigglesworth’s sermons ‘Ever Increasing Faith’ (1924) and his biography of Smith Wigglesworth, ‘Apostle of Faith’ (1948).

    A Solemn Prophetic Warning
    Prophecy by Stanley Frodsham 1965

    It is written: “Despise not prophesying. Prove all things, hold fast that which is good” (I Thessalonians 5.-20,21 KIV). The following are excerpts from prophetic words given to one who was under a heavy anointing. We believe all who read these solemn prophetic warnings should take diligent heed to them. “Believe in the Lord your God, so ye shall be established,- believe His prophets, so shall ye prosper” (II Chronicles 20.-20 KIV).

    Great darkness is coming upon the countries that have heard My gospel but no longer walk in it. My wrath shall be manifested against all ungodliness. It shall come with great intensity. My judgments are literal, and not a thing to be lightly passed over. Before I visit the nations in judgment, I will begin at My house.
    When I do cause My wrath to come upon the cities of the world, My people shall be separate. I desire a people without spot or wrinkle, and such shall be preserved by Me in the time of My wrath coming upon all iniquity and unrighteousness.

    I am going to prepare you for the coming days by a hard path that will cause you to cry out continually unto Me. For when the going is easy, men do not seek Me, but rejoice in a temporary blessing. And when that blessing is removed, they so often turn this way and that way, but do not come to Me. I am showing you these things that you may seek Me continually and with great diligence. As you seek Me, I will open up truths to you that you have not seen before, truths that will enable you to stand in the last days.

    Coming Glory and Deceiving Spirits

    When I visit My people in mighty revival power it is to prepare them for the darkness ahead. With the glory shall come great darkness, for the glory is to prepare My people for the darkness. I will enable My people to go through because of the visitation of My Spirit. Take heed to yourselves lest ye be puffed up and think that you have arrived. Listen to the messengers, but do not hold man’s persons in admiration. For many whom I shall anoint mightily with signs and miracles shall become lifted up and shall fall by the wayside. I do not do this willingly; I have made provision that they might stand. I call many into this ministry and equip them, but remember that many shall fall. They shall be like bright lights, and the people shall delight in them. But they shall be taken over by deceiving spirits, and shall lead many of My people astray.

    Hearken diligently concerning these things, for in the last days shall come seducing spirits 1Timothy 4:1) that shall turn many of My anointed ones away.
    Many shall fall through divers lusts and because of sin abounding.
    But if you will seek Me diligently I will put My Spirit within you (Ezekiel 36:27).
    When one shall turn to the right hand or to the left hand, you shall not turn with them, but keep your eyes wholly on the Lord. (His Word, His Spirit, His Presence)
    The coming days are the most dangerous, difficult and dark, but there shall be a mighty outpouring of My Spirit upon many cities; and many shall be destroyed.
    My people must be diligently warned concerning the days that are ahead. Many shall turn after seducing spirits; many are already seducing My people. It is those who do righteousness that are righteous.
    Many cover sins by great theological words, but I warn you of seducing spirits who instruct My people in an evil way.

    Many shall come with seducing spirits and hold out lustful enticements.
    You will find that after I have visited My people again, the way shall become more and more narrow, and fewer shall walk therein.
    But, be not deceived, the ways of righteousness are My ways. For though Satan come as an angel of light (II Corinthians 11:13-15), hearken not to him; for those who perform miracles and speak not righteousness are not of Me.
    I warn you with great intensity that I am going to judge My house and have a church without spot or wrinkle when I come. I desire to open your eyes and give you spiritual understanding that you may not be deceived, but may walk in uprightness of heart before Me, loving righteousness and hating every evil way.
    Look unto Me, and l, will make you to perceive with the eyes of the Spirit the things that lurk in darkness, that are not visible to the human eye.
    Let Me lead you in this way that you may perceive the powers of darkness and battle against them. It is not a battle against flesh and blood, for if you battle in that way, you accomplish nothing.
    But if you let Me take over and battle against the powers of darkness, then they are defeated; and then liberation is brought to My people.

    The Way of Deceivers

    I warn you to search the Scriptures diligently concerning these last days, for the things that are written shall indeed be made manifest.
    There shall come deceivers among My people in increasing number, who shall speak forth the truth and shall gain the favor of the people, for the people shall examine the Scriptures and say, “What these men say is true.” Then when they have gained the hearts of the people, then and then only shall they bring out these wrong doctrines.
    Therefore, I say that you should not give your hearts to men, nor hold people’s persons in admiration. For by these very persons shall Satan enter into My people.

    Watch for seducers 1Timothy 3:13). Do you think a seducer will brandish a new heresy and flaunt it before the people? He will speak the words of righteousness and truth and will appear as a minister of light, declaring the Word.
    The people’s hearts shall be won; they will bring out their doctrines, and the people shall be deceived.
    (in our case, the doctrine that dreams are a witness, dates-setting, etc.)
    The people shall say, “Did he not speak thus and thus? And did we not examine it from the Word? Therefore he is a minister of righteousness. That he has now spoken we do not see in the Word, but it must be right, for the other things he spoke were true.” WOW!

    Be not deceived, for the deceiver will first work to gain the hearts of many and then shall bring forth his insidious doctrines.
    You cannot discern those who are of Me and those who are not of Me when they start to preach.
    But seek Me constantly, and then when these doctrines are brought out, you shall have a witness in your heart that these are not of Me. Fear not, for I have warned you.
    Many will be deceived, but if you walk in holiness and uprightness before the Lord, your eyes shall be opened, and the Lord will protect you. If you will constantly look unto the Lord, you will know when the doctrine changes, and you will not be brought into it.
    If your heart is right, I will keep you, and if you will look constantly to Me, I will uphold you.

    The minister of righteousness shall be on this wise: his life shall agree with the Word, and his lips shall give forth that which is wholly true, and it will be no mixture.
    When the mixture appears, then you will know he is not a minister of righteousness.
    The deceivers speak first the truth and then error to cover their own sins, which they love. Therefore, I exhort and command you to study the Scriptures relative to seducing spirits, for this is one of the great dangers of these last days.

    I desire you to be firmly established in My Word, and not in the personalities of men, that you will not be moved as so many shall be moved. I would keep you in the paths of righteousness. Take heed to yourselves, and follow not the seducing spirits that are already manifesting themselves.
    Diligently inquire of Me when you hear something that you have not seen in the Word, and do not hold people’s persons in admiration, for it is by this very method that Satan will hold many of My people.

    The Way of Triumph

    I have come that you might have life and have it more abundantly, that you may triumph where I triumphed. On the cross I triumphed over all the powers of Satan, and I have called you to walk the same path. It is when your life is on the cross that you shall know the victory that I have experienced. As you are on the cross and seated in Me, then you shall know the power of the resurrection.
    When I come in My glory, the principalities and powers in the heavenly places shall be broken. Fret not, for I have given you power whereby you may tread down the powers of darkness and come forth victoriously. It was on the cross that I triumphed over all the powers of the enemy. My life shall flow through you as you enter into these precious truths. Look unto Me, and appropriate My life. As your eyes and desires are toward Me, and you know what it is to be crucified with Me, then you shall live, and your anointing shall increase.
    It was not in My life that I walked upon the earth, but it was in My life when I was upon the cross that I openly spoiled principalities and powers (Colossians 2:15). I am showing you truth that shall cause you to overcome, to have power over the wicked one-truth that will liberate you and those around you. You shall know also the fellowship of My sufferings. There is no other way whereby you may partake of this heavenly glory and reign with Me. “If we suffer, we shall reign with Him” (II Timothy 2:12 KJV).
    I desire to make these truths real within you. As you keep them before you, you will liberate many who are in bondage. You will have revelations of those in darkness and will have the keys to liberate the captives.
    Many seek to liberate, but they have not the keys. Upon the cross continually you will know the power of My resurrection that you may also partake of My glory.
    As you are willing to walk with Me and rejoice in your sufferings, you shall partake of My glory. Look unto Me, for ye have need of power to overcome the wicked one and the bondage in other lives.

    If you will indeed judge yourself, you shall not be judged 1Corinthians 11:31).
    As you seek My face and desire to be cleansed by Me in all truth and sincerity of heart, I will judge you in the secret place, and the things that are in the secret place of your heart shall not be made manifest to others. I will do it in the secret place, and no man shall know it, and the shame that shall be seen on many faces shall not be seen on your face. Therefore, in love and mercy I am instructing you, and, therefore, have I said that if a man judge himself, he shall not be judged. It is not My good pleasure that the shame of My people be seen by all. How can I judge the world if I judge not first My own house? Hearken unto these things I am telling you. If you will not hearken to Me, your shame shall be evident to all.

    God’s Part and Our Part

    I would have you consider My life on earth-the anointing upon Me was great. Yet the temptations were great on every side, in one form and then in another, offering Me first the glory of the kingdoms of the earth, and then reviling and persecuting Me. There will be great glory given to My people, and yet the temptations shall be intensified from every side. Think not that with the glory there shall be no temptations or persecutions.
    The glory to My church shall be great, and so shall the temptations from the enemy to turn My people from My paths. I am warning you that when the glory shall be manifested, the temptations shall be great, until very few that start shall finish.
    First, there shall be offered them great worldly possessions, and then great revilings and unbelief.

    Consider your Lord, that as He walked, so it shall be for you. There shall be need of great intensity of purpose.
    At times, everyone shall rise up against you, simply to turn you from the course that I would put you on. It is written of Me that I set My face as a flint to go the direction My Father had prescribed for Me Isaiah 50:7). If you will finish the course the Lord has laid down for you, you will have to set your face as a flint with great determination-you must walk in the course laid down for you.
    Many of your loved ones and those who follow with you shall persuade you and try to turn you from the course. With many words that seem right in the natural will they speak to you. Did not Christ rebuke Peter, who would turn Him from the course God had prescribed? (Matthew 16:22, 23)

    Understand these two things and meditate upon them solemnly: the persecution and the darkness shall be as great as the glory, in order to try to turn the elect and the anointed ones from the path the Lord has laid down for them.
    Many shall start, but few shall be able to finish because of the greatness of grace that shall be needed to be able to endure unto the end.
    The temptation and persecution of your Lord was continuous. He was tempted by Satan in many forms throughout His entire life, and even on the cross when the ungodly cried out, “If thou be the Christ, come down from the cross.”
    Think not that there shall be a time of no persecution, for it shall be from the time of your anointing unto the end-difficulties and great persecution to the end. The Lord must prepare you to be an overcomer in all things, that you may be able to finish the course.
    The persecution shall increase, even as the anointing shall increase.

    In paths of judgment and righteousness shall the Lord God lead His people and bring them into that place which He has chosen for them. For the Lord has chosen a place for His people, a place of righteousness and holiness where He shall encamp round about them, and all who will be led of the Lord shall be brought into this holy place, for the Lord delights to dwell in His people and to manifest Himself through His people. The holiness of the Lord shall be manifested through his people. Let the Lord lead you in difficult places. He led His people of old through the place where no man dwelt, where no man had passed through- in a place of great danger, and in the shadow of death. The Lord will indeed lead His people through such places, and yet He will bring them out into a place of great glory. Understand that the way toward the glory is fraught with great danger, and many shall fall to the right or to the left; many shall camp on lesser ground, but the Lord has a place of holiness, and no unclean things shall dwell among His people.

    Put your trust in Him, and He will bring you into a place of holiness. He desires to bring His people into great glory, the like of which has never been seen: what the Lord will do for those who put their trust in Him.
    It is a place of darkness and great danger that separates His people into the place He would have them walk in. He will protect them from the voices that would turn them from His path.
    He will bring them through the dark places, and through the treacherous paths, out into the light of His glory. He will rejoice greatly over His beloved, and cause you to be filled with joy unspeakable. He seeks to lead His people into a new place of grace and glory where He will indeed encamp among them. Put your trust in Him, and He will surely bring you into this new place.

    Fear not the days to come, but fear this only: that you shall walk in a manner pleasing to the Lord.
    In this time I am ordering and setting up My church, and it shall indeed be pure, without spot or wrinkle. I will do a work in My beloved that has not been seen since the foundation of the world. I have shown you these things that you may seek the Lord diligently with all your heart, and that you may be a preserver of His people.

    Run not to this one nor to that one,
    for the Lord has so ordained that salvation is in Him, and in Him alone.
    You shall not turn to this shepherd, or to that one; for there shall be a great scattering upon the earth.
    (this is exactly what I have perceived is happening)
    Therefore, look unto Him, for He will indeed make these things clear to you.
    You shall not look here nor there, for wells that once had water shall be no more. But, as you diligently seek Him, He shall increase your strength and your faith that He may be able to prepare you for this time that is coming.

    The truths that I have revealed to you must become a part of you, not just an experience, but a part of your very nature.
    Is it not written that I demand truth in the inward parts? It is the truth of the Lord expressed in your very being that shall hold you. Many shall experience the truth, but the truth must become a part of you-your very life.
    As men and women look upon you, they will hear not only the voice, but see the expression of the truth. Many shall be overcome because they are not constant in My ways, and because they have not permitted the truths to become part of them. I am showing you these truths that you may be prepared and having done all, to stand.

    • Dear garylordsway,
      Which “lord” are you llstening to FIRST?

      I skimmed your very long post above to see which passages of the Bible you were quoting. I counted 7 from Paul’s letters, and I think 4 from the Old Testament. Other than that you only quoted Matthew 16:22, 23.

      So out of approximately 12 quotes from the Bible that I counted above, the MAJORITY were from PAUL, and you only quoted Jesus once. And you wrote a lot of words of some other man.

      Is Paul your lord?
      Or are you willing to listen to the voice of our Lord God Jesus Christ?

  32. garylordsway –

    YOU SAID – Consider your Lord, that as He walked, so it shall be for you. There shall be need of great “”intensity of purpose””.
    MY THOUGHT – I agree amen – yes indeed PURPOSE and INTENSITY birth a strong desire for Truth if you really Love Jesus Christ. You will personally search the scriptures not just take a mans word for it. That is what the Holy Spirit does is “take us into all truth” it is the power that “guides us to all truth”. Yet the Holy Spirit gives gifts unto men. = The 5 fold ministry. To perfect the body of Christ. I’m of Paul, I’m of Cephas, I’m of Christ . I’m of Christ can also be a snare or a deceiving spirit. Not being able to catch the eye of a SEER. An Apostle or Prophet for our day – That lay the “foundation of the True Message for the age they live in. God does nothing till he reveals it to Prophets first -Amos 3:7 Prophets are “Son of Man” office.
    God chose Moses to lead the children of Israel out of bondage of their World and system of Pharaoh’s they were slaves to.

    BACK TO Purpose and intensity – It births whatever you love the most. Truth and Love becomes your purpose in life if you Love Jesus Christ. So much that you will search it out like the Apostles did. Like Luther did, Wesley did, Branham did. Great men of God in their generations and ages.
    Anything that would seduce, cause lust, or just the waste of time is not good in Gods sight. I would be really worried if I did not have a Taste for the Word of truth everyday of my life. But it is and was Christ that motivated them and placed them in their calling. Signs and wonder do not mean much without a MESSAGE after it. That’s how we detect false prophets from the real Prophets. Intellectuals without the Spirit are the most that deceive the people with their systems of men. Just as in Jesus day the Scribes and Pharisees would led you to convert and make you a 7 fold child fit for hell more than when you was a sinner.

    YOU SAID – The truths that I have revealed to you must become a part of you, not just an experience, but a part of your VERY NATURE –
    MY THOUGHT – The Nature is the Spirit of your soul. Nature is Character.
    The Mark of the Beast is your Character Image if you love the World
    The Mark of the Christ is your Character Image if you Love His Kingdom.
    I have tried my best to “reveal” this to people all my life especially believers. The majority does not see it or believe it. They do not understand if you living in the World then you are “buying” into Satan’s scheme and are lost because you love the world more that Jesus Christ making you not worthy of HIS Kingdom.

    YOU SAID – Many shall experience the truth, but the truth must become a part of you-your very life.
    MY THOUGHT – Yes indeed -As my statement above of Who’s Mark and Character is like shows what Kingdom they of. The Worlds Kingdom or Christ Kingdom -.

    Lord bless – bro. ty

  33. Tom,
    The supposed “The 5 fold ministry” is man’s idea. Specifically, it’s entirely based on Paul’s mistaken idea of what an apostle is. According to standard of the words and actions of Jesus and the original Apostles, Paul was not an Apostle.

    Paul was the self-appointed “apostle” and self-proclaimed “Apostle to the Gentiles” in his own mind- but no one else in the pages of the Bible agreed with Paul on that.

    Paul even made up a new word- “Apostleship” – which only appears 2 times in my Bible, both times in letters written by Paul. [Romans 1:9 & 1 Corinthians 9:2]

    In the Bible, (as I already stated above:)
    Jesus never said Paul was an apostle.
    The original Apostles never said Paul was an apostle.
    Other than Paul’s words about himself, no one anywhere in the Bible ever said or wrote, in any way, anything about Paul individually being an apostle.

    (If you want to discuss Acts 14, we need to start with Acts chapters 1, 6, 9, 13, & 15 to understand the context and meaning of what Luke wrote in Acts 14- and what Luke did not write.)

    I think it was Adolph Hitler who said: “If you repeat a lie loudly enough, often enough, people believe it.”

    You believe Paul was appointed an Apostle because…. Paul said so, many times. With no witnesses to back him up, but rather witnesses against Paul in the Bible itself.

    You are “begging the question” saying that Paul was an apostle, because you are using Paul’s false definition of the word “apostle”, and Paul’s unsupported testimony about himself, rather then looking to the words and actions of Jesus and the Original Apostles for your definition. (Our modern dictionaries are also based primarily on Paul’s definition, the ideas of a man, rather than being based on what Jesus said and did.)

    You have made Paul into an idol. You are following Paul rather than following Jesus. Please open up your New Testament and see for yourself.

  34. Matthew,

    Perhaps you are overlooking the rather obvious fact that Paul wrote what God inspired him to write. (2 Tim 3:16)

    “Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the command of God our Savior and of Christ Jesus our hope”….I Tim 1:1

    God deemed Paul to be the foremost evangelist, and inspired author of the Greek scriptures; the acknowledgement of which does constitute idolatry, but rather, acknowledgement of the magnitude of his commission, and in no way detracts from the the pre-eminence and stature of the One who appointed him.

    ……Another pointless debate about words leading to strife!


    • Richard,
      You just quoted Paul writing about himself. Let every matter be established by the testimony of 2 or three witnesses. Open your New Testament and quote Book, chapter, and verse where anyone BESIDES PAUL said Paul was appointed an Apostle.

      And although God did make Paul “an evangelist” and “a writer”, God never “deemed Paul to be the foremost evangelist” anywhere except in his own mind.

    • Correction to the above: Should read :”does not constitute”

      • Matthew,

        You said: “Quote Book, chapter, and verse where anyone BESIDES PAUL said Paul was appointed an Apostle.”

        I repeat: I Tim 1:1 “Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the command of God our Savior and of Christ Jesus our hope”….

        This is of course is God speaking… words of which were given to Paul to record, such is the nature of the inspired Word of God! So your question could well be posed: “Where in scripture does anyone BESIDES GOD say Paul was appointed an Apostle.. And the answer of course is Paul…such is the inerrancy of scripture, but you appear to not have grasped this basic concept in view of your claim that God’s very own words require witnessed verification.

        However, for the sake of argument, let’s assume that you are right and God is wrong, or indeed the translators, regarding the designation of Paul as an apostle, what do you suppose Paul’s title should be?

        And after having decided on a title for Paul that you are comfortable with, what exactly is the beneficial point you are trying to make? Thanks.


        • “The priests did not ask, ‘Where is the LORD (Yahweh)?’ Those who deal with the law did not know me; the leaders rebelled against me. The prophets prophesied by PAUL, following worthless idols.” [Jeremiah 2:8]

        • Richard,
          So you’re saying that if Paul the Pharisee made a rap song about himself, he could sing:

          “I justify everything I do
          If I testify about myself it MUST be true
          I’m the only man in all history
          whose testimony doesn’t need two or three

          If I did something it MUST be right
          Don’t use the Scripture to shed any light”

          Paul didn’t agree with Jesus about what was the first and greatest, most important commandment.

          Paul the Pharisee summed up the Law in ONE commandment [Romans 13:8-10 & Galatians 5:14]

          The Lord God Jesus Christ the Jewish Messiah summed up the Law and the Prophets with TWO commandments, not one.
          [Matthew 22:34-40 & Mark 12:28-34]

          Which one is the voice of God? Paul the Pharisee, or Jesus the Son of God, our Messiah?

          • Matthew,

            Personally, I cannot envisage a highly intelligent, eloquent and melodic man such as the Apostle Paul singing such monotonic drivel, however, I can understand a carnal and mischievous spirit conceiving of such an idea!

            ………………………………..SONG OF PAUL………………………………..


            My name is Paul and I’m considerably small,
            With a diminutive stride and a thorn in my side.
            But I fight the fine fight with a double-edged sword,
            that is the heavenly might of the Word and my Lord.

            Chorus: (between each verse)

            Why I was chosen I just don’t know,
            the day I was struck down by a heavenly glow.
            But the Lord it was, and he appointed me
            to proclaim his name to Gentiles, Kings and Israeli.

            So off I went as a vessel of the Lord,
            with purity of heart and obedient accord.
            But a “miserable man” I will always be,
            for the thorn in my flesh is a reminder to me.

            I exalt thee Lord for the mercy thou hath shown
            to the foremost of sinners with your life you did atone.
            Not of myself do I do even one thing,
            but of you my Lord in a vessel not fit for a King.


            My name is Paul and I’m decidedly small,
            but my heart is as a sun on account of One Son.
            I shine before men in action, word and deed;
            and with pen held fast, I record my Lord’s every creed.


            My name is Paul; a small Jewish apostle,
            but Gentile I must be for the sake of the Olive Tree.
            For without ripe fruit no seeds can be sown,
            and without new growth, my kinsmen will have no home.


            My name is Paul and I’m tired of being small…
            tired of being beaten, berated and accused of treason.
            For the devil is my foe, as end-times will clearly show
            when my words will be slaughtered and aborted by the wicked, twisted and distorted.


            My name is Paul and it’s time to leave you all, and be home with my Saviour with whom I found undeserved favour.
            Now be warned dear brethren for the devil knows no bounds
            in diverting you heaven-bound sheep to his hell-bound
            ravenous hounds. (Never may that happen)


            My name is Paul and that’s about all,
            but before I go, this you must know:

            Peace be upon you.

  35. Matt perri

    The first 12 is disciples and not apostles. Thoose that was choosen after the disciples is Apostles. The Gospel teach us that they are around 70 people including the disciples. Paul is the greatest Apostle and Peter is the greatest disciple.
    It is so simple to understand. If you are a messianic Jew and don’t like that he stopped the holy Torah then soon you will be happy because Yeshoua is soon here and we have contact with him in my Church and he will come from the planet Nibiru soon. He will say all people who belongs to his father must obey Torah from his time when it starts. this means all Christian men must be circumcised. Paul just stopped Torah for 2000 years and he had the right to do it. I am obeying Torah which means no pizza with meat, no tacos witch cheese and no cheeseburger and no mixing wirt milk and meat. You are not allowed to buy meat in the stores since it is not kosher, it has blood in it. I have known this things for a while and I have been circumcised, I don’t cut my beard or hair, I don’t eat meat, praying the Shema twice every day. I walk around with zitzits, tefillin and kippah everytime I go out and I have the shema written on my doorposts.
    Soon it is other peoples turn to live like I do.

    • yevarekhekha Adonai veyishmerekha
      yaeir Adonai panav eleykha vichuneka
      yissa Adonai panav eleykha veyaseim lekha

      • Matthew
        I think it is easier if we write Aron blessing in english.

        Numbers 6:24-26 24
        The LORD bless thee, and keep thee;
        The LORD make His face to shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee;
        The LORD lift up His countenance upon thee, and give thee peace

  36. Not Gospels I meant New Testament.

  37. Matthew Perri
    I have heard your doctrine all the way back to the late 60’s when the “Free love movement’ called the Jesus Movement started. They said the same thing you do. They loved Jesus as long as they did not have to change their ways. So Apostle Paul’s writing had to go. He was just a man that did not know very much and he had an attitude problem. You sound just like them. You are to late to convince me of the fact that Paul was a CHOSEN vessel.
    Have you not read the Word of God where all of Gods children are Chosen Vessels for Him. Christ is our Alpha and Omega. Chosen before the foundation of the world

    EPH. 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the GIFT OF CHRIST – each mans gift is from GOD = grace and power
    EPH. 4: 8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and GAVE GIFTS unto men.
    EPH. 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that HE also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
    EPH. 4:10- HE that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

    EPH 4:11 And HE gave=Christ– some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

    Without having a Apostle or Prophet you can forget about pastors and teachers and evangelists – cause their would be NO MESSAGE to preach. Its always Apostles= sent ones and Prophets = who lay the foundation for all Messages from God

    John the Baptist came with a Message before People ever heard of Jesus Christ. On and on and on. For you to put a Apostle out of the Bible with your own interpretation is a very serious action my friend.

    bro. ty

    • Tom,
      Thank you so much for sharing some of your insight and experience. Your post was a great blessing to me, and it gave me an overflowing sense of joy and laughter. And, I agree wholeheartedly with some of your points.

      I agree with you that: “all of Gods children are Chosen Vessels for Him.” That includes Paul, and me, and all true followers of Jesus, probably you too. (I’m not so sure about “Assertio Septum” here…) But “chosen vessel” does not mean “Apostle.”

      Other than Paul’s words about himself, no one in the Bible ever said that Paul was “an apostle.” It’s a statement of fact about the New Testament text. No one in the world has refuted that- because they can’t.

      Paul’s opinions about “apostles” are different than everyone else in the New Testament, including Jesus and the Original 12 Apostles. This is another statement of fact from the New Testament text. Just get a concordance and look up where the word “apostle” and related words appear, and you can see that.

      Paul redefined the word “apostle” to include himself in this elite top category. But according to the definition of Jesus and the Original Apostles, there are only 12 Apostles, with Matthias permanently replacing Judas Iscariot as the 12th.

      Here is a source you can probably relate to:
      The Evangelical Dictionary of Theology, edited by Walter A. Elwell. (Baker Books) under “Apostle”, page 71:
      It says in part:
      “Evidently the college of apostles was regarded as fixed in number, for Jesus spoke of twelve thrones in the coming age (Matthew 19:28; cf Revelation 21:14). Judas was repaced by Matthias (Acts 1), but after that no effort was made to select men to succeed those who were taken by death (Acts 12:2).

      In your post here, giving your own interpretation of what an “apostle” is, you quote only one source- Paul, in his letter to the Ephesians chapter 4. You don’t quote Jesus, or any of the Original Apostles.

      You just “beg the question” and accept Paul’s self-serving definition of “apostle” without examination, discussion, or comparing Paul’s words with the words of everyone else in the New Testament- including Jesus.

      Jesus didn’t say that “apostles = sent ones”. That is not the primary meaning of the word according to JESUS, although it is a secondary meaning. That is a modern dictionary definition, based on Paul’s human idea, not based on the words of Jesus.

      If you say that Matthias was not the 12th Apostle, it is YOU who “put an Apostle out of the Bible with your own interpretation.” You accept Paul’s interpretation alone, rather than the words of Jesus, (which also agree with the Original Apostles.) You are following Paul rather than following Jesus.

      I cannot speak to your personal experience with people from the “Jesus Movement” in the late 60’s (who may have been hypocrites.) It was before my time- I came of age in the 80’s, and met Jesus personally in the 90’s, and I knew virtually nothing about “The Jesus Movement” until years after that. As I learned more about it, I developed some ideas, some of which I posted on a different thread on this site:

      starting with Matthew Perri said this on August 3, 2013 at 4:02 am

      I am proud to call myself a “Jesus Person”, but born a little late, in Generation X. I don’t embrace hypocrisy among “Free Love Baby Boomers”, or in my own Generation, or among Millennials or anyone else- hypocrisy comes in many flavors. To be a follower of Jesus DOES mean that we DO “have to change our ways.” And our model is JESUS, not the teachings and life example of Paul the Pharisee.

      You wrote to me that the Jesus Movement people told you:
      “Paul was just a man that did not know very much and he had an attitude problem. You sound just like them.”

      Thank you. That is a great summary of Paul in a nutshell. I gladly embrace the label of “Jesus Person.” As I noted in another post above, Paul literally did not know the first and greatest, most important commandment according to Jesus.

      Paul the Pharisee summed up the Law in ONE commandment [Romans 13:8-10 & Galatians 5:14]

      The Lord God Jesus Christ the Jewish Messiah summed up the Law and the Prophets with TWO commandments, not one.
      [Matthew 22:34-40 & Mark 12:28-34]

      Are you following Paul the Pharisee, or following Jesus the Son of God, our Messiah?

  38. As for Assertio Septem Sacramentorum” I will be praying and lift you up in the Spirit of the Holy Ghost. Cause you need some help my friend.

    Have you asked the Lord Jesus to fill you with His Mighty Power of the Gift of the HOLY SPIRIT yet.

    br ty

  39. Paul gave us so much information about the angel of light satan, aka mohammed with his other gospel and other Jesus and other spirit I think he was truly a blessing to Christians..
    Paul was vital to Christians.. Jesus and the apostles went to the blood line of Israel first.. Paul went to the gentiles and all others…Where would many of us be if Paul had not existed.. Still unbelievers or worshippers of Baal.. Shame n people that do not appreciate Paul’s service and sacrifice to Jesus and to the world..

  40. Matthew Perri – Some people just never get it dear brother.
    I do not have the time or space to write all I know about every subject cause then my post would be to long.

    Ephesian church was the most “Spiritual church” in the New Testament as many scholars have said – He could speak to them about heavenly places cause he was caught up into the 3rd heaven and seen things that were to great to even speak to the normal believer.

    Now with that said – The Beginning Church that was a Model of what Christ was looking for was the Ephesian church to come to see as Christ and Paul himself had seen.

    Now to the point – The very first church age in Rev. 2 Jesus himself picked it to be the starting symbol of a “Spiritual church” that Paul Pastored for 3 years to make it that way. And yet by the Time “John the Divine” had the Vision of the Revelations. It had already started drifting from it’s original love for Jesus Christ. And was starting to except the Nico – Conquer — Laity –“common people”. And was heading toward anti-christ teachings which led to the “Dark Ages”. Other words vote them in and vote them out. Being a system of men not appointed to By Christ Himself.

    1. Apostle – “Apo” is the start of Apo-stle. Means to Reveal or Revelation. All of the 7 Spirits of God were His messenger’s to the 7 Church ages.

    2. The “stle” of Apo-stle meant “sent one” and comes from the word Angel. According to Jewish rabbi. So Paul was the 1st Angel messenger of the New Gentile age of Jew and Gentile. 6 other Angel Messengers followed the first one.

    3. To be an Apostle – Meant you had to have Seen or talked to Jesus personally. Did Paul pass this test. – YES sir. Jesus told him to go to the Street called straight and let a man pray for your healing of your eyes for the Brightness of Christ Coming blinded him. So Jesus “talked directly” to Paul and “appeared to Him” in a “Great light” when Christ gave him his commission.

    2 – Apostle’s established church’s and laid the foundation of the Message of Christ to them. Did Paul do this – YES Sir

    3. Their are not many Apostles and or Prophets Seer’s. But it was a calling and a GIFT to the people of the Wisdom and Poswer of God manifesting among the people. Making him a little more than just a common believer. As he is the one that had “thee” revelation for the hour to Jew and Gentile. The other Apostles did the same. But Paul stood out among them and rebuked Peter, and James in Jerusalem. When they had their meeting on Circumcision.

    II PETER 3:15 – And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;

    II PETER 3:16- As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things “hard to be understood”, which they that are “unlearned and unstable wrest”, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their “own destruction”.

    II PETER 3:17- Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the “error of the wicked”, fall from your own stedfastness.

    I rest my case – ty

    • Thanks Tom….Very interesting and informative.

      Be blessed.

    • “A horrible and shocking thing has happened in the land: The prophets prophesy lies, the priests rule BY THEIR OWN AUTHORITY, and my people love it this way.” [Jeremiah 5:31]

    • Tom York,
      While I appreciate you taking time to lay out your thoughts, don’t rest your case just yet. It’s full of holes.

      You wrote:
      “The very first church age in Rev. 2 Jesus himself picked it to be the starting symbol of a “Spiritual church” [Ephesus] that Paul Pastored for 3 years”


      .1) Paul did not pastor in Ephesus.
      .2) Paul was not in Ephesus for 3 years.

      Rather, in Ephesus, Paul spoke and argued in the Synagogue for 3 months, and then went and had daily discussions in the lecture hall of Tyrannus for 2 years. [Acts 19:8-10]

      .3) Luke accurately recorded Paul’s boastful exaggerated self-promoting testimony: “by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. ” [Acts 20:31]

      .4) The words of Jesus to the Church in Ephesus [Revelation 2:2] apply directly to Paul. Jesus commended the church because “you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false.”

      The church in Ephesus must have tested Paul, who claimed to be an apostle, and found Paul false. Paul was not the only false apostle, but he was first on the list. Other than the 12 true Apostles, Paul is the only person in the pages of the New Testament who claimed to be an apostle, and no one else agreed with Paul. No one! This is simply a statement of fact about the text of the Bible.

      .5) You are coming up with your own definition for “Apostle” using human sources- dictionaries, Paul’s opinions, other men’s opinions, etc. You are “begging the question” again. I understand you- I was trained that way too.

      You are not reading the words and actions of Jesus (and the Original Apostles) that are recorded in the Bible. You are not listening to how Jesus used the word “Apostle”, or how the Original Apostles used the word “Apostle.” You are unconsciously accepting Paul’s definition of “Apostle” without knowing it. Paul the Pharisee was not an Apostle, and he didn’t know what a true Apostle was.

      .6) You quoted the Second letter of the Apostle Peter 3:15-17

      We see that at the end of the Apostle Peter’s life, Peter refers to
      “our beloved brother Paul” and “all his epistles”

      Brother does not mean Apostle. Peter never said Paul was an Apostle, and neither did anyone else in the New Testament except Paul. Yet Peter knew of “all Paul’s letters”, where Paul loudly repeatedly claimed himself to be an Apostle. In a kind, loving way, The Apostle Peter was distancing himself from Paul the Pharisee here- and elsewhere in his letter too, if you look carefully.

      It is time to wake up from being brainwashed by Paul. We need to start listening to Jesus first, following Jesus first, and trying to imitate JESUS!

      • I think you are harping too much on paul.

        why are you hung up on the word apostle?

        who really cares what someone is called?

        • There are only 12 Apostles and Matthias is the 12th – that is the opinion of Jesus (and the Original Apostles) from the text of the Bible. All the authors of the New Testament agree with them- EXCEPT PAUL.

          Paul made up his own definition of what an “apostle” was, and proclaimed himself one. Paul made great efforts to defend his supposed “apostleship” and apostolic authority, and he was an abusive leader. Many men today are following Paul’s bad example.

          So if you believe that Paul was appointed an apostle, and that there are “apostles” today, it is because you are listening to the voice of Paul first- and ignoring the voice of Jesus (and the Original Apostles) recorded in the Bible. That is idolizing Paul, which is wrong.

          We should listen to Jesus first.

          • apostle is a word from greek that means messenger, one sent forth with orders.


            the term is a generic one….and not confined to 12 men from 2000 years ago.

            if it is, then you are not sent forth either to represent christ, since the job is already done. this means you have no message to give, and you have not been commissioned or sent forth to represent christ to anyone.

            jesus gave the great commission to go forth to all nations and preach the gospel….I don’t think he meant that only 12 people would be doing this, but all who read his Word and had his testimony.

            but since you don’t feel this way, then you should have nothing further to say

            • Marianne,
              You are right that TODAY the term “apostle” has BECOME “a generic one.” And you quoted one of today’s dictionaries, about the word meaning “messenger” which is true. This is part of the meaning.

              But to Jesus and the Original Apostles in the text of our New Testament, the term “apostle” was NOT a generic one.

              The Apostle John wrote: “The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.” [Revelation 21:14]

              Jesus (and the Original Apostles) knew what an “apostle” is better than Paul did. So I’m saying we should listen to Jesus FIRST, before we consider what Paul had to say about “apostles.”

              • matthew

                I think this dispute over one word is trivial.

                jesus actually called them his disciples, and friends.

                Paul was the main writer who used the word apostle, not jesus.

                Peter used the term twice.

      • “Elijah went before the people and said, ‘How long will you waver between two opinions? If the LORD Yahweh is God, follow him; but if PAUL is God, follow him.’ But the people said nothing.”
        [1 Kings 18:21]

        • you changed the wording……of the verse.

          • From my early childhood, I have a vague memory of words from the open sequence of a TV show that you may be able to relate to…. I mean “dig”…
            Since I was “born a little late”, the memory is not very clear.

            “Adam 12” “Los Angeles California” “The story you are about hear is true. The names have been changed…”

            ‘BAAL… “Baal” occurs in the Old Testament meaning, “lord, owner, possessor, or husband,” and as a proper noun referring to the supreme god of the Canaanites, and often to the name of a man.’
            [Quoted from “Holman Bible Dictionary]

            ‘In regard to the divine name YHWH, commonly referred to as the Tetragrammaton, the translators adopted the device used in most English translations of rendering that name as “LORD” in capital letters to distinguish it from Adonai, another Hebrew word rendered “Lord,” for which small letters are used.’
            [Quoted from “Preface to the New International Version” (of the Bible)]

  41. Very well said; but Mr. Perry will eventually figure it out on his own, If we he will apply himself and pray through! if he will rely on the Holy Spirit and not men’s teachings but the Holy Spirit will lead anyone into all truths if they are baptized in the water and the Spirit in Jeus’ name for there is no salvation in any ohter name given by which we must be saved, Ac.4:21 by St. Peter, St. John and our Lord God and saviour Jesus Christ, Tit.2:11-15!

  42. “To whom can I speak and give warning? Who will listen to me? Their ears are closed so they cannot hear. The word of the LORD (Yahweh) is offensive to them.” [Jeremiah 6:10]

  43. If I might make a comment here. I “believe” I see both sides of the argument here, whether anyone agrees or not. I offer what amounts to a third alternative in all of this. I see Matthew’s point clearly, but don’t agree with his final conclusion. I also see everyone else’s point regarding Paul, but don’t agree with their “final” conclusion.

    This is a scripture concerning Samson:

    Judges 13:2-5

    2 And there was a certain man of Zorah, of the family of the Danites, whose name was Manoah; and his wife was barren, and bare not.
    3 And the angel of Jehovah appeared unto the woman, and said unto her, Behold now, thou art barren, and bearest not; but thou shalt conceive, and bear a son.
    4 Now therefore beware, I pray thee, and drink no wine nor strong drink, and eat not any unclean thing:
    5 for, lo, thou shalt conceive, and bear a son; and no razor shall come upon his head; for the child shall be a Nazirite unto God from the womb: and he shall begin to save Israel out of the hand of the Philistines.

    We know that Samson was called by Yah and that he ended up fulfilling his calling. But the way he lived his life seemed to be the total opposite of someone fulfilling the Word of Yah
    Judges 14:1-4

    14 And Samson went down to Timnah, and saw a woman in Timnah of the daughters of the Philistines.
    2 And he came up, and told his father and his mother, and said, I have seen a woman in Timnah of the daughters of the Philistines: now therefore get her for me to wife.
    3 Then his father and his mother said unto him, Is there never a woman among the daughters of thy brethren, or among all my people, that thou goest to take a wife of the uncircumcised Philistines? And Samson said unto his father, Get her for me; for she pleaseth me well.
    4 But his father and his mother knew not that it was of Jehovah; for he sought an occasion against the Philistines. Now at that time the Philistines had rule over Israel.

    We know that Samson was called by Yah and that he ended up fulfilling his calling. But the way he lived his life seemed to be the total opposite of someone fulfilling the Word of Yah. Both aspects of Samson’s life-1 the calling on his life -2 the way he lived his life, were both worked out and ordained by Yah for HIS purpose.

    We also see in the lives of Rheoboam and Jeroboam the following;

    I Kings 12:21-30

    21 When Rehoboam arrived in Jerusalem, he mustered all Judah and the tribe of Benjamin—a hundred and eighty thousand able young men—to go to war against Israel and to regain the kingdom for Rehoboam son of Solomon.
    22 But this word of God came to Shemaiah the man of God: 23 “Say to Rehoboam son of Solomon king of Judah, to all Judah and Benjamin, and to the rest of the people, 24 ‘This is what the LORD says: Do not go up to fight against your brothers, the Israelites. Go home, every one of you, for this is my doing.’” So they obeyed the word of the LORD and went home again, as the LORD had ordered.

    Golden Calves at Bethel and Dan

    25 Then Jeroboam fortified Shechem in the hill country of Ephraim and lived there. From there he went out and built up Peniel.[c]
    26 Jeroboam thought to himself, “The kingdom will now likely revert to the house of David. 27 If these people go up to offer sacrifices at the temple of the LORD in Jerusalem, they will again give their allegiance to their lord, Rehoboam king of Judah. They will kill me and return to King Rehoboam.”
    28 After seeking advice, the king made two golden calves. He said to the people, “It is too much for you to go up to Jerusalem. Here are your gods, Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt.” 29 One he set up in Bethel, and the other in Dan. 30 And this thing became a sin; the people came to worship the one at Bethel and went as far as Dan to worship the other.[d]

    Notice in verse 24 the statement from Yah : “Do not go up to fight against your brothers, the Israelites. Go home, every one of you, for this is my doing.”
    Yah personally set up the circumstances for idol worship (golden calves) in the Ten Northern Tribes of Israel. He purposed this. Sounds like blasphemy, but it is anything but that. This is nothing less than Yah “enabling” His plan for mankind to run its course, according to His will and good pleasure, for the salvation of His people Israel-both Jew and Gentile.

    Lastly, we see the writings of Paul seemingly contradicting Torah and pretty much everything Messiah said, though that is not really the case. But that is for a different time. What we do see from all of this, are the Jews who follow Torah, and the Christians who follow Messiah through Paul’s writings, taking opposite paths that, at least on the surface, seems like they will never come together. Could it be that all of this has happened according to the way Yah purposed it, that He has allowed His people to walk two different paths for two days, to bring them together as one at the end of the Sixth day and the beginning of the Seventh day? I personally believe that to be the case.
    So, in the end, at least the way I see it, both sides of this discussion are right and both are wrong. What a conundrum!!!

    • Al,

      Pardon me, while I listen and watch college football, to step in and comment.

      You are correct amigo in that – “the evangelical church” does not know much of what Paul was saying. Peter recognized that problem too.

      But the evangelical church also does not understand some of what Jesus said either.

      Consider the parable (prophetic) Jesus spoke, as written by Matthew.

      “‘Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling. Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!…'” (Matthew 23:37).

      Jerusalem is The Church. There is a New Jerusalem coming down from Heaven in a few years.

      Did He not say “My house shall be a house of prayer”? (Matthew 21:13).

      “The evangelical church” thinks “My house” means praying in any evangelical denominational building (pick your favorite denomination – Baptist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, etc), located on every street in the western/European society.

      Where is the communion and fellowship with the Lord (prayer) when He is waiting for them within their local church building?

      Found the following, coming to my email this past week. Perfect timing.

      by A.W. Tozer

      “Let me go out on a limb a little bit and prophesy. I see the time coming when all the holy men whose eyes have been opened by the Holy Spirit will desert worldly Evangelicalism, one by one. The house will be left desolate and there will not be a man of God, a man in whom the Holy Spirit dwells, left among them.

      I hear Jesus saying…Mat 23:37-38: “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one killing the prophets and stoning those who are sent to her, how often would I have gathered your children together, even as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you would not! Behold, your house is left to you desolate”

      As the Church now stands, the man who sees this condition of worldly evangelicalism is written off as somewhat fanatical. But the day is coming when the house will be left desolate and there will not be a man of God among them.

      I would like to live long enough to watch this develop and see how things turn out.

      I would like to live to see the time when the men and woman of God – holy, separated and spiritually enlightened – walk out of the evangelical church and form a group of their own; when they get off the sinking ship and let her go down in the brackish and worldliness and form a new ark to ride out the storm.”

      Al, it begins soon. Very soon the great awaking takes place for both Hebrew (recognizing Him as the Messiah) and The Church (waking up).

      As for Mathew P? Well, I wonder.

      Blessings to you Al.
      Psalm 20

      • DJ,
        I appreciate that word from A.W. Tozer, and I agree with you- “it begins soon.” It’s overdue. And it seems that I’m a part of it.

        If you read my posts to Al just below- do you still wonder about me?

    • Al,
      Regarding the first part of your post where you wrote: “I see Matthew’s point clearly…” and you quoted “scripture concerning Samson”:

      Judges 13:2-5 & Judges 14:1-4

      I think you get the big idea that the Bible is filled with narratives about real people, and it shows them “warts and all”, (to quote the former head of the Missions Department at my old school, Dallas Theological Seminary.)

      Paul had a rather unusual calling on his life, and Paul had great spiritual power from God, like Samson.

      Paul was “a brother” who was sent on a mission by God (but disobeyed went the opposite direction) like the Prophet Jonah.

      Saul the Pharisee was “a chosen vessel” just like his namesake King Saul (a fellow ravenous wolf from the tribe of Benjamin [Genesis 49:27].

      The second half of the Book of Acts, starting with Acts 15:36 onward, seems primarily to be Luke’s expose biography of who Paul really was and what Paul really did. (Not a “model of maturity and an example for us to follow”, but in large part exactly the opposite.)

    • Hi again Al,
      About the SECOND part of your post where you wrote:
      “Lastly, we see the writings of Paul seemingly contradicting Torah and pretty much everything Messiah said, though that is not really the case.”

      My response is:

      Which is the greatest commandment in the Law?
      Jesus replied: “’Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these TWO commandments.” [Matthew 22:36-40, Deuteronomy 6:5, Leviticus 19:18]

      Of all the commandments, which is the most important?
      “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “ is this: ‘Hear, of Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than THESE.” [Mark 12:28-31, Deuteronomy 6:4-5, Leviticus 19:18]

      But, in contrast, Paul didn’t know the greatest, most important, first commandment according to Jesus. Paul made up his own rule. Paul wrote:
      “The entire law is summed up in a SINGLE command: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’” [Galatians 5:14, Leviticus 19:18]

      And again, Paul wrote:
      “He how loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “Do not commit adultery, Do not murder, Do not steal, Do not covet, and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this ONE RULE: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.” [Romans 13:8-10, Leviticus 19:18]

      Jesus said it’s TWO commandments, with the greatest, most important, first command to 1) first, love God with everything you’ve got, and 2) second, love people.
      Paul said no, it ONE commandment- to love people.

      Isn’t Paul here CLEARLY “contradicting Torah and pretty much everything Messiah said”?

      • Galatians 5-14..For all the law is fulfilled IN ONE WORD , even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
        note; Paul said the law is fulfilled IN ONE WORD ..That word being LOVE…
        PAUL MEANT LOVING GOD AND LOVING NEIGHBOR, THEREFORE YOU honor God, keep the Sabbath, do not steal, or commit adultery, etc..

        Jesus nailed the curse of the law to the cross..

        • Ruth,
          Jesus is right- Paul was wrong here, because
          Paul contradicted Jesus !!
          The law is NOT fulfilled in one word- love. That was Paul’s idea.

          The text is in front of you. We don’t need Paul to “improve on the teachings of Jesus.” I typed it out so you can see for yourself right here on the screen. You are not looking at the words of Jesus. Please scroll up and read them!

          This is the whole reason for my post. In the Evangelical church, we have been trained to think: “If Paul wrote that, it must be right” without comparing it to the words of Jesus. You are idolizing Paul.

          My view of “what is the Bible” largely agrees with the Orthodox view. (Literally- as in Eastern Orthodox.)

          The Bible is not really “a book” but rather a collection of writings. Some books are more important and authoritative than others, and some parts of certain books more authoritative than other parts of the same book. For example, the prophecies about Jesus in the Psalms are more important and authoritative than the Psalmist expressing his own sinful feelings and desire for revenge in Psalm 137:8-9 (which is not a promise or command of God, but rather simply a description of sinful human experience.)

          Here is the Orthodox View of what the Bible is.

          020. What does the word Bible mean?
          It comes from the Greek biblios and it means “the books.” The
          name signifies that these sacred books are uniquely authoritative
          witnesses to Jesus Christ. As such, they deserve attention before
          all others.
          However, within the corpus of the Bible, there is a hierarchy
          of witnessing power and dogmatic authority. The Gospels hold a
          unique place as witnesses to the Truth and only the Gospels are
          placed on the Holy Table in the sanctuary.

          036. Is there any division of the books of the Old
          Testament by which you can give a more distinct
          account of their contents?
          In the Gospels of Luke, the Lord gives the following
          threefold division:
          These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still
          with you– that everything written about me in the law of
          Moses, the prophets, and the psalms must be fulfilled. (Luke

          045. Are there preeminent writings which form the basis
          of the New Testament?
          Yes. The Holy Gospel, which is proclaimed in the four books
          of the Evangelists, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Only the
          four gospels are placed on the Altar Table in the Sanctuary as
          supreme witnesses to our Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ.


          • Matthew P

            Paulos teaching was after the crucifixtion and Yeshua teaching was Before the crucifixtion. Yeshua could not teach like Paulos did because God had to take upon our sins on him on the cross.

            • Assertio,
              So you are saying that Jesus was wrong, and his teachings are outdated? And we should ignore Jesus and listen to Paul instead? Because Jesus “could not teach like Paul?” So you’re really a “Paulist” rather than a follower of Yeshua?

      • Matthew,

        I understand a little better now where you are coming from. Whether you agree or not, I do understand where you are at regarding Paul. But rather than try and break down what you have said, I will tell you where I am at and why?

        We actually agree on a lot of things. I also believe the “purest” form of worship, is to be keeping Torah (the commandments), while holding fast to the testimony of Messiah Yahshua. We agree 100% on that. I don’t believe there is an “Old” and “New Testament”, with one having been “replaced” by the other. I believe the writings of the days of Messiah are more correctly called the Renewed Covenant, the writing of Yah’s Torah on our hearts instead of on stone. The two are one and seamless, and neither can be reconciled in truth without the other.

        In regard to Paul or Saul, whichever you prefer, I am not 100% on board with all he has to say. I am not a Christian and I am not a Jew. If we use labels, I am a Messianic believer=observe the Torah and hold fast the testimony of Messiah Yahshua. But even in that there are divisions. There are those who hold to the idea that Paul was a false prophet, which brought about a false religion called Christianity. Then there are those who are Messianic that say that Paul’s writings are misinterpreted and misunderstood, rather than being a false apostle, which is where I find my self. But this misunderstanding, if you will among the Gentiles has brought about the Christian Church walking out their faith in error. It is not a comfortable place to be, but it seems the most plausible to me. I never use the writings of Paul when discussing scripture with my Christian Brothers. The exception being when they use them out of context or are misinterpreting what is actually being said.

        I have read much from Messianic Jews that are on both sides of this issue. I have found,” within myself”, that much of what Paul seems to be saying that would classify him as a false prophet, is at the least ambiguous and then misunderstood and misinterpreted, yet at other times seeming blatantly wrong. You on the other hand find him to be a false prophet (apostle). The problem in all of this being, I am not 100% sure I am right about Paul. That is why I say I can see clearly where you are at and I honestly don’t fault you for that. I have found that my salvation is through the shed blood of Messiah Yahshua, and my daily walk is guided by Torah and not necessarily the words of Paul. I do not call myself a Christian since I came to this understanding, but all the while feeling a deep kinship to my Christian and Orthodox Jewish brethren.

        Concerning what I wrote about Samson and Jeroboam, the purpose was to draw the parallel of Yah taking His people on two seeminly wrong and different paths through history and then restoring them back together at the end. Whether you see the Tanakh as allegorical or real, makes no difference to me. The Father “seems” to do irrational things which brings division rather than unity. My point in referencing the two scriptures in the Tanakh was to parallel it with what is possibly going on now between all of the different factions of His people in Messiah. That we are meant to grow separately and apart from each other, with a different understanding of things, while being reconciled as one at the end of time, when He will open our eyes to His truth. All of this means that I am not necessarily right-that you are not necessarily right-that the Christian Church is not necessarily right-that the Orthodox Jews are not necessarily right. All the while, we each hold at least a portion of the truth, with some maybe more than others. But that is not for us to determine. All of this just shows that Yah’s people still do those things that seem right in their own eyes. But in all of this, His goal being to restore His people Yisrael as echad (one) in the land according to His will and purposes.

        Blessings to you my brother

        • Hi Al,
          Thanks for sharing your ideas. We do agree on a lot.

          I think there is a “middle ground” between:
          .1) “Paul was a false apostle” and
          .2) “The Apostle Paul was the greatest missionary who ever lived, and also the best teacher, “The Apostle to the Gentiles”, our best example of Christian maturity, and greatest model for how to be a pastor, etc. etc.”

          I don’t want to belabor the point, but:
          Firstly, without agreeing on a common definition of “what is an apostle”, any discussion of whether or not Paul was an “apostle” is meaningless. MY definition comes from Jesus and His original Apostles that I see in the text of the New Testament- (not from Paul, or modern dictionaries or theologians opinions.)

          Moving on…
          If you call Paul a “false apostle”, you are imitating the speech of Paul, not the speech of Jesus. And as Christians, we should be imitating JESUS (rather than Paul, despite what Paul wrote about himself.)

          Neither Jesus nor any New Testament writer (except Paul himself) ever said anywhere to “imitate Paul” or “follow Paul”, or even “follow Paul as Paul follows Christ.” Only Paul said such things about himself. This is a statement of fact about the text of the New Testament.

          The speech of Jesus was gracious and loving, even to some in the church who were doing great wrong. We see that in the “Red Letter” words of Jesus to the churches in Revelation.

          Jesus said to the church in Thyatira:
          “You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess. By her teaching she misleads my servants…I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling.” [Revelation 2:20-21]

          Notice how gracious the speech of Jesus is here. He does not call here a “false prophetess”, but rather one who calls herself a prophetess. And Jesus even gave her time to repent before he would strike her.

          And, Jesus commended the church in Ephesus, saying to them:
          “I know that you cannot tolerate wicked men, that you have tested those who claim to be apostles but are not, and have found them false.” [Revelation 2:2]

          Again, notice how gracious the speech of Jesus is here also. Jesus does not call them “false apostles,” but rather “those who claim to be apostles but are not.”

          The words of Jesus in Revelation 2:2 absolutely apply to Paul, first and foremost. But, that does not prove that Paul was never really a believer, or that everything Paul did was wrong.

          Just because Paul didn’t know very much, and was hypocritical, selfish, had a lust for power, and an attitude problem doesn’t mean that Paul was not a believer. Paul was a rather carnal but gifted leader- like Samson, the Prophet Jonah, King Saul, or……….Lonnie Frisbee.

          • Hey Matthew,

            I understand what you are saying in all of this. As I said before I do believe that Paul was a true Apostle to the Gentiles, but is vastly misunderstood and much of what he wrote is incredibly provocative, which has brought much division between Yah’s people-Jew and Gentile. I have been for years now, defending the Torah (Messiah the Word) and Grace (Messiah our salvation) to be one. The Orthodox Jews will have nothing to do with you, while the mainstream Christian Church (not all, but for the most part) will call you every name in the book, while angrily trying to tear you down with only “ONE” witness-Rav Shaul-Paul. Don’t get me wrong, I am not complaining or justifying myself, but do find a deep seated zeal in all of this. If you had known me on a personal level, you would think it not possible for me to assume this kind of role. In the natural, I have always been quiet, never wanting to cause or become engaged in strong disputes. Pretty much over the top timidity, just to be honest. But the Father has given me purpose in all of this, for this time and this hour, regardless of the “seeming” hopelessness in it all. It is why I do what I do and say what I say. Just explaining why I tend to not use the writings of Paul much when talking to many of my Christian Brothers and Sisters. Most already have their minds made up concerning all of this and, I believe, “unable” to even entertain the thought that there might be more to this, though not all!! Even as we know that Yah, at least in part blinded the Jews regarding Yahshua, to accomplish His purposes, so I believe He has, at least in part, blinded the Christian Church for His purposes. It seems to be the pattern throughout scripture. But Yah has been removing that blindness since 1947, at least in the Jews, and He is doing the same thing in the Christian Church now.

            While most here might not understand, you are a BROTHER in Messiah, who walks according to the Word (Torah) and holds the testimony of Messiah Yahshua. Where we all go from there is commentary, based on “our” individual knowledge and the revelation we have received from Ruach HaKodesh. I cannot, at least at present, affirm all you have said about Paul, but neither can I deny your right to declare what you believe to be the “truth”, but all the while approaching you as a Brother in Messiah. While many may not explain it the way you do, there are many who believe that, at least in part, much of Paul’s writings are counter productive to unity, even to the degree of being just down right wrong. But in all of this, I do believe there is a clear purpose which will make itself manifest in time.

            While most here reject you, I embrace you as a Brother, just as I do my Christian and Orthodox Jewish brethren. I look forward to more discussions with you.

            Blessings to you and your wife

            • Hi Al,
              We agree on so much. Although I cannot prove it, and I would not bet my life on it, I agree that probably Paul was a true brother and evangelist sent primarily to the Gentiles (even though Paul was frequently a model of bad carnal behavior.)

              But you still have not faced the issue head-on of “what is an Apostle” and where is your definition coming from. If you analyze it, I believe you will realize that your definition is coming from Paul, either directly through Paul’s writings, or indirectly through theologians, church tradition, or modern dictionaries that have made it a “generic term”.

              But according to the testimony of Jesus and the Original Apostles that He appointed, which is recorded in our New Testament, the word “Apostle” was absolutely not a “generic term.” It refers only to 12 men who were eyewitnesses to the entire ministry of Jesus in the flesh on earth, from the time of John the Baptist until Jesus was taken into heaven. That does not include Paul. This is a fact about what is in the text, and what is not- can you agree?

              • Hey Matthew,

                I can see where we tend to take much for granted without really challenging it, because it seems somehow to be blasphemous to question the status quo. I will take the time to search thoroughly what you are saying, for the purpose of finding the truth. I will get back to you on this.

              • Matthew,

                One more thing, how does it feel being a wolf, which by extension infers attacking the flock???? The term was “wolves” so I consider myself as part of that. That is okay though, I have been called worse as I am sure you have.

                • don’t you think this argument is getting a bit frivolous? arguing over a word?

                • Hi Al,

                  My wife & I were laughing so hard I had tears coming out of my eyes. I was wondering if I should say “woooooo woooooooooo” but I wasn’t sure… I just had to share our joy- sometimes it comes from the most unexpected places.

              • this is YOUR definition of apostle…really tired of this issue

              • Hey Matthew,

                Sounds like you are in trouble, AGAIN?!

                I am basically writing this to all who read it. I am not directly writing this to you Matthew, for you already know most of this.

                I wanted to get back with you concerning the last question you asked me, which is basically this: was Paul ever called or named an “Apostle” by any of his contemporaries outside of himself? The answer to that is NO. Does that mean he was not “sent”? The answer to that is also no. You even acknowledge he was sent.

                Why would Paul use a title not actually bestowed on him by his contemporaries-the twelve Apostles? It could be argued that the fact that he was “sent”, by definition would justify the title of Apostle. I actually could see where this would be an advantage for him going into areas not familiar with Yah’s Word, which might gain him the opportunity to be heard because of his title, Apostle; name dropping if you will. Could it have been some sort of arrogance? Not 100% sure one way or the other.

                The phrase,” Paul was never given the title of Apostle by any other” and the fact that no other person called him an Apostle is true as far as we know in scripture. Also, what you said about Marcion is true. He did use some of the letters of Paul to establish “churches” and is also the one who came up with the terms “old” and “new” testaments. There is much he did in with name and the writings of Paul to bring us what we have today in the Christian Church.

                Beyond this whole discussion is, once again, the matter of why Yah would allow such a thing as this to happen among his people??? This is my thinking and understanding of what is happening here and why it has been “allowed” to happen.

                We know that Paul did things and then told others not to do them. We also know that he told others to follow “his” example instead of saying to follow Messiah’s example, opening the door for people to look to him for what is right rather than what Yah wrote from the beginning and what Messiah said when He was here. The question is, did he do it to honor himself, or were they to emulate him because they had never really known or seen with understanding what it meant to walk in the ways of Yah? Basically, leading by example. Regardless of which is true, we know what the outcome has been. Basically two (actually more) groups of people, walking two different paths, each claiming the other is wrong and they are right.

                YHWH is perfect in all His ways, as is Messiah Yahshua, as is the leading from Ruach HaKodesh; “They” are echad (one), eternal, and ‘change not’! The goal is that as many as are willing, be saved and made whole! To accomplish this he “seems” used various and different ways that have been beyond our understanding, as for example the controversy of Paul and the seeming disorder it has brought. But what it has done, has been to bring the light of Messiah to the whole world, but all the while seemingly nullifying Torah. So, which is right?

                With the Church it is Messiah without Torah. With the Orthodox Jew it is Torah, but still waiting for Messiah’s first appearance. To the Messianic it is both Messiah and Torah.

                The newest group above are the Messianic believers. They are in the middle between the other two groups and have only been around since the regathering of Israel beginning in the late 1940’s. That should tell everyone something. Messianic believers (Jew and Gentile) follow Messiah in the way of Torah (our Ketuba-Marriage contract-His vows and our vows. You know the do’s and don’ts). Christians follow Messiah with a “mixed” (hint) doctrine of Torah and paganism, based on the misunderstood writings of Paul and by extension even Marcion, to the extent that more Christians own a copy of “only” the “new” testament. When John said that Yahshua was the Word, there was only the Tanakh, the Torarh, if you will.

                So, was Paul wrong or right? I believe he did what he was sent to do by Yah and he accomplished that. But, does that mean that we take what he (Paul) “seemingly” said, and disregard the rest of scripture, or twist the rest of scripture to fit a convenient scenario that is comfortable for us and fits Paul’s writings? I believe you do that to your own peril. The writings of Paul must give way, through further learning and understanding of what is really going on here given the complete picture that the totality of scripture brings us. Paul’s words cannot stand alone. Doing that is totally and completely unscriptural. Cling only to the “incomplete” picture that Paul describes for us, and it puts you in a place of only having half of the picture. I am not saying that brings you into a place of not having salvation. Even Yahshua said, He who breaks the least of these commandments and TEACHES OTHERS TO DO SO, shall be called least in the Kingdom. In the Kingdom-yes! as the “least”-yes! I don’t want to know what that means, but it looks like there will be many who will find out. I just don’t want to be one of them.

                Everyone will follow what they believe to be true. I know that I will and I know that you will, as will all our Christian brothers and sisters. We are on the same page about all of this. Specifics about if Paul meant to do this or that and what it means is an opportunity to bring clarity to these issues. I for one thank you for that. Most are prone to believe you should just read chapter and verse and accept the “conventional-traditional” wisdom handed down to us. If any word comes that “seeminly” tells us to nullify Yah’s Word, and we accept it as truth and follow it, you do so to your own hurt and lose. I have heard it put like this: if you take something from the beginning and alter it’s DNA, if you will, you have basically created something different than what was there in the beginning, which is defined as being a mutation.

                Paul’s writings can bring clarity and understanding to our lives when it is in sync with all scripture, or it can bring misunderstanding and darkness leading us in a way that is not true and leads to harm when it is not in sync with the rest of scripture. That is what Yah has put in front of us. Choose wisely my brothers and sisters! Even the writings of Paul can lead us on the wrong path, if we allow it.

                The shaking is taking place my brother.

                • we have to remember that not every word spoken by Paul was written down, and certain concepts were understood, whether written or not. As paul was called by the Lord, we have to have at least some confidence in his decison to call Paul….the Lord would not have called another Judas to spread the gospel….

                  Jesus did not make a mistake calling paul.

                  .he knew the worth of paul and how effective he could be….he also knew that he might be misunderstood 2000 years later, as maybe in his writings, he did not explain himself well. but all we know is that the churches worked to be faithful to the lord, and had their weaknesses as well, as even we do. many martyrs came out of those churches…..

                  arguing over a title like apostle or disciple is trivial….it is their work that counts.

                  and it is common for sheep to imitate the behavior of their pastor… we have to believe that paul made efforts to imitate christ, and his followers attempted to follow him….so the end result is for them to imitate christ….as least as best they could…and like all new believers, they needed corrections.

                  • Marianne,

                    I know you have a lot to read and it is a full time job. The thing is I, at least for the most part, don’t disagree with anything you have said. If I need to, I will go down through your complaints one by one and show you that we are actually pretty close on what we are saying. If we hold as fact that Paul is above and beyond any scrutiny in understanding his writings and what they really mean, then are we perpetuating a misconception that has been in the Christian Church for at least 1700 years, and his writings have become the “sacred cow” that are to be accepted without questioning what he really meant. Personally, I believe Yah would rather create a division than perpetuate something that is written in a manner that, for all intent and purposes, annuls the vast majority of His Word. Come to think of it, that is what He did!

                    As far as Paul using the word Apostle I found no problem with that, as I said. But to Matthew’s question, Paul was the only one, AT LEAST AS FAR AS WE KNOW, to refer to him as Apostle, at least in scripture. Beyond that we don’t know. Does that fact disallow that he was sent and fulfilled what Yah had given him to do. NO!

                    If we can’t take on hard questions without falling apart, what does that say about us? If I shy away from these things because I am seen as being apostate and a “wolf”, then am I at fault. There is a purpose in all of this. It might not be pleasant, but it does have a purpose. If one’s silence advances a false perception and upends pretty much the rest of scripture, on that day when we stand before Him……..

                    • I think too much time is given to the use of one word Apostle…this is frivolous.

                      Peter called himself an apostle also.

                      the debate is senseless… if Jesus or someone else is called teacher 2000 years ago, then no one else is allowed to call themselves a teacher…..analogy

                      Paul is not a sacred cow….he just wrote tot he gentiles…..he also gave verbal instructions to them as well, and that is not written down….so there is a lot that is not written down by the other apostles as well..

                      there are some things that Paul says I do not agree with, in the literal sense, but he is not around to ask him to explain himself.

                      we take the word and rightly divide the truth..

                      if Jesus called him, knowing he was a scholar, then there has to be some legitimacy to him

                      most of what paul says I agree with….so why bury his whole testimony because of some single passage or objection?

  44. Matthew, so you think Paul was Baal, right?…If that were true that means God lied and the Bible is a lie…and God is a powerless little wimp that could not stop baal from inserting his words into corinthians, etc..
    It also means Jesus lied since he designated Paul as a CHOSEN VESSEL..Acts 9..

    And when Jesus told satan man must live by every word of God Jesus was evidently blind and did not know Paul was baal and had written much of the Gospel…..

    Me thinks you Matthew are the liar and possible akin to baal, not Paul…

    The false prophets that steal the word of God out of men’s hearts are muslims…Do you think allah is the God of Abraham or Baal????

  45. Ruth,

    “Me thinks” you speak from faulty emotions and a lack of understanding. Your comments are as wrong as his. Take a step back and stop talking from your flesh! Your not helping anything here.

  46. DJ Jesus was speaking to the pharisees in Matthew 23, not Christians….many pharisees were descendants of Esau and Ishmael and were forced converts to Judaism..I think these were living in Jerusalem and these were the ones Jesus was speaking of… I do think one third of the Christian church falls and it will be the tares satan planed in the church..The other two thirds will be hid away in the wilderness and will be fed spiritual meat as God crushes the serpents head.. Revelation 12.

    • Ruth,

      Evangelical church leaders and Pastors can’t stand anyone but fellow Pastors and Teachers. They may take in an Evangelist who gets invited by a Pastor to stand up in “his” pulpit.

      Prophet in the church today!?! Oh my! “Why we don’t know about that kind of thing? Why they could be false or worse.”

      Lutherans, Baptists, Disciples of Christ/Christian Churches (Stone/Campbell movement), Methodist – name it.

      There is a spirit of “religion” affecting the church. It is pervasive!

      The same spirit that blocked a Pharisee named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council from understanding what Jesus said, “You must be born again” (John 3) is at work today in the church.

      You can spot it (spirit of religion) if you listen to interpretations of parables. Those affected by this spirit don’t accept speaking tongues, deliverance of demonic oppression upon Christians and other “questionable” hard to understand Scriptures, which were “only practiced in the 1st century churches – to kick start the Gospel.”

      What’a joke. There above is a clue to a spirit of religion present in da church by the application of the Word.

      The a Word is alive. The Word is Jesus. He does not change – His Word is the same yesterday, today and forever.

      Paul expressed truth when he wrote, “Think over what I say, for the Lord will give you understanding in everything” (2 Timothy 2:7).

      Paul did not direct Timothy to take everything he said (Paul an Apostle, Evangelist) literally or go ask your local Pastor, but to ask the Lord who will give understanding in everything.

      Again – how many times have we heard “My house shall be called a house of prayer” applied to a local building open Sundays and when services are held?

      Therefore, “Jerusalem, Jerusalem” (Church, Church) I want a relationship with you!

      But, the Church says – “when we’re open or maybe when the Pastor ministers to me, there is comfort.”

      There can be and often is comfort from a Pastor. Short lasting, usually, because the root problem is not addressed: What could be oppressing the soul of this believer?

      This “spirit of religion” is taught by a Pastor who has “authority” over the flock?

      Such Pastors do not comprehend the authority given to followers of Jesus (Mark 16:17-18 and the Keys). How can Pastors have any authority over a flock when they don’t apply that authority?

      Please. You know Ezekiel 34.

      Excuse me, but in love – my reply is from the Word.

      “And that same Christ gave these gifts to people: He made some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to go and tell the Good News, and some to care for and teach God’s people. Christ gave these gifts to prepare God’s holy people for the work of serving, to make the body of Christ stronger. This work must continue until we are all joined together in what we believe and in what we know about the Son of God. Our goal is to become like a full-grown man—to look just like Christ and have all his perfection.

      Then we will no longer be like babies. We will not be people who are always changing like a ship that the waves carry one way and then another. We will not be influenced by every new teaching we hear from people who are trying to deceive us—those who make clever plans and use every kind of trick to fool others into following the wrong way.

      No, we will speak the truth with love. We will grow to be like Christ in every way.

      He is the head, and the whole body depends on him. All the parts of the body are joined and held together, with each part doing its own work. This causes the whole body to grow and to be stronger in love” (Ephesians 4:11-16, Easy-to-Read Version).

      In summary –

      The Church is stronger in love when there are all 5 offices are working (within the Body – an assembly of believers) and Jesus is recognized and sought as the head of His Church.

      Pastors working without the other 4 (Sunday School teachers don’t count), are not fully effective, building the Kingdom of Heaven. They don’t even apply the Keys.

      The Church does not welcome or acknowledge the offices of Apostle and Prophets or true Evangelists (Read 1st 2nd Timothy).

      Very soon, (as Tozer wrote many years ago), the evangelical church will receive a slap, waking up from a deep sleep (Ephesians 5:14).

      “Woe to those who are pregnant and nursing babies in those days” (Matthew 24:17). Pastors are in for a shock, trying to digest solid food while facing the enemy.

      So now it’s back to more college football. This just may be the last season.

      Rev 12:11

      • DJ,

        Great comments. I appreciate your insightful input. You may be right about this “possibly” being the last season. I have noticed that on a Messianic website that shows the blood moons of 2014 & 2015,they are now also showing the comet Ison on the first day of Hanukkah 2013. It seems like there could be a lot more to come on that in the very near future. Will just have to wait and see. Blessings to you also my brother.

        • Al,

          Just last night, I heard a comment by Mark Blitz, confirming what you posted above.

          “Hebrews know the Torah but don’t know Yeshua. Christians know Yeshua but don’t know the Torah. The Lord will be teaching us the Torah during His millennial reign.”

          Personally, I am like Mary –

          “As Jesus and his disciples were on their way, he came to a village where a woman named Martha opened her home to him. [She had a sister called Mary, who sat at the Lord’s feet listening to what he said. But Martha was distracted by all the preparations that had to be made. She came to him and asked, ‘Lord, don’t you care that my sister has left me to do the work by myself? Tell her to help me!’

          ‘Martha, Martha’ the Lord answered, ‘you are worried and upset about many things, but only one thing is needed. Mary has chosen what is better, and it will not be taken away from her'” (Luke 10:38-42).

          I don’t care for all the church business and I’m fired of Pastors who twist the Word (“unbelieving and perverse generation”, Luke 9:41), and those seeking to build a non-profit ministry business, yet they don’t comprehend or apply the Keys (binding demons and loosing angels).

          Pastors don’t apply the above offices, because it upsets their position as the “spiritual leader” of their church.

          Hello Church! It’s a Body (Philippians chapters 1 through 4) with offices (Apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers).

          At the same time, a spirit of religion (evil) does not what to see Lucifer fall like lightning – so that spirit of religion hides the Keys.

          Hanukkah 2013, December, is about right for Israel to attack Iran’s nukes. That could be the start, beginning of the pale horse riding out. Those “Blood Moons” are very significant.

          Did you read my study “Signs in the Heavens”?

          It began either Feast of Trumpets 2011 or when he rode out on the white horse with a crown (prize) on Feasts of Tabernacles 2009.

          It all ends by no later than Feasts of Tabernacles 2018.

          I’m thinking Oct 2009 to Feasts of Tabernacles 2016. Those moons occurring during the last 3.5 years.

          Psalm 20

  47. Why did the world kill the true prophets of God and willingly follow after those false ones? Because it was easier to follow those of the world whgo practised man’s religions and false doctrines of traditions!
    New Sunday sermon for tomarrow at, thanks.

  48. Al, Jesus and the apostles went to the jews first….Paul went to gentiles…Where would Christianity be if Paul had not existed or was a liar..

    Satan is trying to lead Christians backwards into the old covenant which leads to death…Perhaps that is why Paul is being discredited….
    islam is based on the old covenant laws and the cursed ordinances which were punishments for breaking the ten commandments..The old covenant as the Bible says leads to death..
    Jesus nailed these ordinances to his cross….NO ONE and I mean no one, muslim, jewish, buddhist ,etc can be saved or receive eternal life except through jesus.. Jesus is not only the way, the truth and the life and the holy ghost comforter he is the only one who can restore man to the image of god…
    No old covenant laws or feast days, etc can give life…

    • Ruth,

      I mean you no disrespect. I know you mean well and believe you are defending “the faith”. But,the Christian Church has managed to take the WORD OF YAH (God) and diminish it to nothing less than a reference book and historical account that was only put in place for the advancement of Hellenized Christianity. Your assessment is that which is widely held by the majority of the Western Christian Church and falls far short of being the truth that the Word is trying to convey to us. I do understand where Matthew is coming from and why he feels as he does about Paul’s writings. I have struggled with it a lot myself. Not until I was able to see from a Hebraic viewpoint, what Paul was actually saying, did I even begin to understand what was going on in all of this. But I will never change your mind on this. It doesn’t work that way. Only by Ruach HaKodesh (the Holy Spirit) can we arrive at this understanding. The good news is, that is happening more and more now. I hope for you only Yah’s best!

      Blessings to you in Messiah Yahshua

  49. Babylon religion killed the prophets of God…Rev 18-24..And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

    The Babylonian religion was the same religion as the tower of Babel…IT is also the same religion of Cain…And Islam is an offshoot from the Babylonian religion..

    The Bible and history confirm it to be the astrology lore…

    Islam has been killing saints for 1400 years.. today they are killing Christians in 140 countries…

    • Ruth,

      Let me ask you a question: at Sinai, when the children of Israel came out of Egypt and worshipped the golden calf, who were they actually worshipping?

      Here is a hint to the question above: when the Christian Church sits at predawn, facing the East, waiting for sunrise, who are they worshipping?

      When the Christian Church cuts a tree and brings it in their house and hang balls of silver and gold from it, who are they worshipping?

    • e1313ruth,

      In regards to Babylon (which precedes Islam by several hundred years), please consider this video. The rebellion began in Babylon, moved to Egypt then Greece and Rome. Then, Islam came along.

      But, this power play (rebellion against God), all began with a leader named Nimrod, in the society of Babylon and the building of a tower. We just need to substitute names, locations and the tower (one world center tower) to bring it up to date.

      It will not be much longer before the foolish virgins wake up, knowing the Lord is returning soon (Matthew 25).

      Rev. 12:11

  50. Yea 1313 – but they were still Jew Babylonians even before they were in captivity in Babylon. Do you remember the Exodus – the JEWS built a “Golden Calf” to worship. Their hearts never came out of Egypt is why. They loved that worldly religion. And they wanted to kill MOSES even. Then the wanted to Replace Him. Its the same today. Prophets have never been popular. Jesus Christ was in the Office of a Prophet himself in the Son of Man. That is a Prophets title.

    I know that Jesus was the Son of God and the Son of David. So please do not pounce on me ok.

    bro. ty

  51. I attended church for years…when I was about 15 I started to church and wham a pigeon used my head for a toilet….I quit church on that day feeling that the Lord had rejected me….Year later I sought the Lord with my whole heart…In the course of time the Lord showed me the reason for the pidgeon incident..I had learned the basics of Christianity and the lord wanted my mind free and clear of “church doctrine” so He could teach me real truths… So he sent a pigeon to detour me…

    The first big revelation he taught me was the truth about Genesis 1-26…The church teaches that God was talking to Jesus when He said “LET US MAKE MAN IN OUR IMAGE.”. The Lord taught me a whole new meaning to that verse…
    The real truth of that verse is: God really did create man in his own image…Gen 1-27 but God foreknew Adam would soon lose that image and become like the one who taught him his version of good and evil, aka satan… God verifies this in Genesis 3-22… He said “The man has become as ONE OF US in understanding good an evil.” Man had become like satan in understanding good and evil… and then I understood why there is so much error in the church….A mindset like Adam’s could never understand the truth of God’s Words unless the Lord Himself reveal it, …

    Genesis 1-26 is one of the verses the church uses to prove a trinity ..So I guess I would be like a thorn in their side if I relayed this information to them..
    I forgive them because I understand that all of mankind inherited Adams condition so consequently no one can understand truth of the Bible unless the Lord reveal it.

    We are saved by faith, by the life and death of Jesus. not by wisdom or knowledge and the church continues to teach these truths..

  52. The prophecy god gave us in Genesis 1 -26 does not end with Adam…It is also prophecy about the remaking of man in the image of God.. we call it BORN AGAIN….
    Satan too continues with this image making… Revelation 13 which is satan’s
    kingdom, and is a counterfeit of God’s kingdom, makes an image to the beast…
    Fire comes down from Heaven and they make an image of the beast… We call it twice dead, once from Adam’s sin and now from antichrist…

    These two images are made thus by the two gospels on earth…The Bible says we are born again of the WORD OF GOD…We are transformed by the Words of the Gospel…
    Satan does likewise…The koran which is satan’s version of the gospel transforms men into liars and killers..That is so evident today everyone should see it…
    2 Corinthians 11-4,14 shows satan as messiah bringing another gospel which teaches another Jesus and another spirit of god..These are mohammed bringing koran and teaching Issa and Allah…
    Paul wrote Corinthians.. Remember this the next time you condemn or criticize Paul…
    We live in perilous times…Mohammed promised to return during judgment..The Bible verifies it… The beast comes out of the pit after 1000 years to deceive the world again…. He is here now..This is the antichrist we must deal with today…

  53. As for Babylon I am pretty sure Babylon of today is the wife of satan, aka he dragon beast-rev. 13…. The hypocrites in Christianity will also qualify as being of Babylon..

    I think Babylon is a counterfeit of the city of God new jerusalem where people of all colors, nations, etc are gathered…in the name of Christ…
    Babylon is the counterfeit of the city of God…They are all gathered together in one name (allah presently) so they be not scattered on the face of the earth…

    There is much scripture indicating that the Beast kingdom of Rev 13 is the same event that happened in the Garden of Eden..Very fitting that God should judge the earth with the Adam’s temptation…But the Lord cheated for us because we have the Bible and the Gospel and so much truth…If we fall today it is because we are blind or stupid…It is a dang good thing God was wise enough to save us by faith and not by intellect or knowledge..

  54. Jeremiah 10-3, 4..For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

    Al read all of Jeremiah 10-3 through 7.. They cut a tree out of the forest and deck it with silver and gold and IT DOES APPERATAIN UNTO THEE OH LORD….Jeremiah tells us the Christmas tree does appertain unto the Lord..
    Verse 6 ..Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O LORD; thou art great, and thy name is great in might. Verse 7..Who would not fear thee, O King of nations? For to thee doth it appertain:

    God’s answer about the Christmas treers is in verse 5…They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

    I do not think Christmas treers compares to the jews betraying God and following Allah Baal in the wilderness…They qualify more to be those that live by faith ….

  55. Al, one more thing about the Christmas treers… The prophet said the tree decked with silver and gold appertains unto thee Lord…The prophet knew the Lord was the little baby the Christmas treers were celebrating…The prophet knew Jesus is God..

  56. Is there anyone out there that understands that God sent a pure language to man so man could call upon the name of God…That pure language appears when all the nations are gathered together… It certainly appears to be the English language..Which means we call God Jesus, not some other name…Granted God did hide some mysteries in the hebrew interpretation of some words..
    For instance Zechariah 5-1,3 speaks of a book (roll) that goes over the entire earth and is a curse….The word CURSE is spelled ALAH in hebrew…Take it to the bank the book is the koran….
    Isaiah 24-6 and chapter tells of the curse that desolates the entire earth..CURSE also spelled ALAH in Hebrew…
    Daniel 9-11..Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the CURSE is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him….CURSE spelled ALAH in this verse…This curse has to do with Moses law, (not the 10 commandments) but the 600 plus cursed punishments……This is same as shariah law in Islam…

    • Ruth,

      Forgive me! I have asked you questions and have expressed views that are not appropriate for “this” conversation. My intent is not to offend or belittle anyone here, but rather open a discussion that has the possibility of bringing about truth to one participant or the other, that may not be obvious to those involved in the discussions. When it becomes apparent that objective cannot be met, the discussion becomes futile and is no longer of benefit. With that said, I will close out this discussion.

      Be Blessed

  57. Al. likewise forgive me if i have offended you…

  58. e1313ruth,

    No doubt the pigeon droppings was a sign.

    You got me laughing in church today, remembering your experience.

    Blessings to you!

  59. Dear Ruth (AKA e1313ruth)
    I see that you made 8 posts just today (Nov. 3) on this thread.
    It’s great that you have passion, and some ideas that you want to share.

    I am in general agreement with the sentiments expressed by “Al” and “DJ” just above.

    I also appreciated some of your thoughts in the “pigeon dropping” post earlier today, and I will try to give a thoughtful response to that one.

    May the overwhelming peace of our Lord Jesus be with you.

  60. Matthew, do you even know why Jesus is called THE WORD OF GOD….
    Jesus is the holy ghost spirit…He indwelled all the prophets and apostles and true believers..He wrote the Bible through men …and that very much does include Paul…He also enlightens some to understand the Scriptures..
    Jesus Himself picked Paul same as he did the apostles…
    You have a serious problem and you evidently do not believe the Bible nor do you understand who the author was/is…
    For your own sake I hope you wake up…

    I have found there are things I do not understand in the Bible but that does not make it in error or wrong..It just means I need the enlightenment of holy ghost, AND SO DO YOU….

  61. More comparisons: Paul vs. Jesus

    The voice of Jesus:
    Did NOT come to abolish the Law or the Prophets but to fulfill them.
    Matthew 5:17-20

    The voice of Paul:
    Came to abolish the law
    Ephesians 2:15
    Colossians 2:14

    The voice of Jesus:
    male AND female
    Matthew 19:4-6

    The voice of Paul:
    Neither male nor female
    Galatians 3:28

    What does it prove if someone calls Jesus “Lord” ?
    The voice of Jesus: Matthew 7:21-23
    The voice of Paul: 1 Corinthians 12:3

  62. Amos 8
    1Thus hath the Lord GOD shewed unto me: and behold a basket of summer fruit.2And he said, Amos, what seest thou? And I said, A basket of summer fruit. Then said the LORD unto me, The end is come upon my people of Israel; I will not again pass by them any more.3And the songs of the temple shall be howlings in that day, saith the Lord GOD: there shall be many dead bodies in every place; they shall cast them forth with silence.4Hear this, O ye that swallow up the needy, even to make the poor of the land to fail,5Saying, When will the new moon be gone, that we may sell corn? and the sabbath, that we may set forth wheat, making the ephah small, and the shekel great, and falsifying the balances by deceit?6That we may buy the poor for silver, and the needy for a pair of shoes; yea, and sell the refuse of the wheat?7The LORD hath sworn by the excellency of Jacob, Surely I will never forget any of their works.8Shall not the land tremble for this, and every one mourn that dwelleth therein? and it shall rise up wholly as a flood; and it shall be cast out and drowned, as by the flood of Egypt.9And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord GOD, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day:10And I will turn your feasts into mourning, and all your songs into lamentation; and I will bring up sackcloth upon all loins, and baldness upon every head; and I will make it as the mourning of an only son, and the end thereof as a bitter day.11Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:12And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.13In that day shall the fair virgins and young men faint for thirst.14They that swear by the sin of Samaria, and say, Thy god, O Dan, liveth; and, The manner of Beersheba liveth; even they shall fall, and never rise up again.

    Ecc.1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun. Just as it is today!

    Hos.4:6My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that you shall be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

    Lords Way Ministries
    Rev. G. L. Boyett

    • Dear Rev. G.L. Boyett

      Our Lord Jesus said:
      “Simply let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No’; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.” [Matthew 5:37]

      Less than a week ago (on October 30, 2013) on this thread, you wrote:

      “I will not reply any more to Matthew Perry I see no point in it.”

      Are you a man of your word?

      yevarekhekha Adonai veyishmerekha

  63. Matthew, bear in mind satan said, “Did god really say that????”” and take heed to your own words….You do not understand Scripture and you twist verses to fit your personal opinions..

    As for your argument about Paul… read Paul’s words in
    1 Corinthians 3-22,23
    1 Corinthians 1-12,through 17

    Plus these words of the apostles
    Romans 8- 9,102 Peter 1-20,21
    1 Peter 1-11
    2 Timothy 3-16..
    You do not believe the Bible.. God promised to write your name out of his book of life if you do not believe..He does this by misinterpretations and by other gospels..
    Do you believe mohammed was the holy ghost comforter…??? He also refuted the Bible

  64. Romans 8- 9,102 Peter 1-20,21
    should read
    Romans 8- 9,10
    2 Peter 1-20, 21

  65. Matthew P.

    No more. I turned you over to the Lord.

    Psalm 23

  66. Matthew I repeat,
    As for your argument about Paul… read Paul’s words in
    1 Corinthians 3-22,23
    1 Corinthians 1-12,through 17

    Plus these words of the apostles
    Romans 8- 9,10 …2 Peter 1-20,21

    Jesus is the Word of God..Jesus spoke through these men…

    2 peter 1-20, 21,Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation….For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

    2 Timothy 3-16..All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

    1 Peter 1-10, 11.Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

    YOU HAVE MUCH TO LEARN but it is impossible to teach a man who thinks he knows everything..

    • Ruth, and I repeat:
      Where is the voice of Jesus?
      You quoted the same 6 passages of the Bible- 4 from Paul’s letters, 2 from Peter’s letters. And that’s it. Where is Jesus?

      We don’t need to be repeating the same things to each other. As I stated previously, my view of “what is the Bible” is Orthodox (literally Eastern Orthodox, as I defined above.) The 4 Gospels have the highest authority, above the letters and everything else.

      If you want to keep your unorthodox position, you can do that.
      I feel that my dialogue with you personally has reached a natural stopping point, so I won’t be responding to any more of your posts addressed to me on this thread.

      May the peace of God be with you.

      • stay within reason…..

        in the book of jeremiah…..where is the voice of Jesus?

        since jesus is not quoted here, does this mean the book should be disregarded?

  67. Jew and Gentile-“ONE NEW MAN” in Yahshua HaMashiyach!

    • amen to that

    • Double amen- from my wife and I. It’s beautiful, and I’m sure we’ll see it again and again. Hopefully we can learn to sing this too, like we sing the Aaronic priestly blessing in Hebrew.

    • Hi Al,

      I have been re-reading your writings on this thread, thinking about them and trying to synthesize some ideas. Until you said it, I didn’t know that it was Marcion who came up with the idea of a “New Testament.” Even many Messianic observers of Torah are largely unaware of Marcion and what a huge role he played in shaping anti-Jewish “replacement theology” in Rome back in the second century. Almost no one I’ve heard ever goes back farther than Constantine in the fourth century.

      Jesus spoke in terms of The Law, The Prophets, and The Writings, like any good Jew. But Jesus never called these writings “The Tanak” or implied that they were all to be seen as “one book”. Jesus never spoke about “the canon” or “The Bible” as if these writings were one book that was all “the word of God” and all in perfect harmony. It was a collection of writings, in order of authority and importance- first Torah, then Prophets. And I think we should apply the same principle to the texts of what we now call the “New Testament.”

      When Marcion produced his own new “Bible”, containing nothing but an abbreviated Gospel of Luke and 10 of Paul’s letters (all except those to Timothy and Titus), it seems it sparked a sort of “arms race” in the Christian church to also produce a “Bible.” I’m not sure when the unorthodox idea of “The Tanak” as “A Book” first came up.

      One big idea for you seems to be that God has caused a blindness, keeping Jews & Gentiles largely apart for almost 2000 years, but now God is bringing us together again. I’m still contemplating about his. In the meantime, here is a short video message about the two sticks of Ezekiel 37 that I think you could relate to. Blessings and Shalom.

      preached by Matthew Miller on the home page of

      • The name Tanakh is an acronym of the first Hebrew letter of each of the Masoretic Text’s three traditional subdivisions: Torah (“Teaching”, also known as the Five Books of Moses), Nevi’im (“Prophets”) and Ketuvim (“Writings”)—hence TaNaKh.

        • Marianne, thanks for the further clarification.

          Here is a link to a rather extensive explanation of the Second Century Heretic Marcion. It also deals with the established historical understanding of the “3 Tiers of Authority” in the Bible text.

          • I agree with some of what is said.

            But since Jesus himself called Paul to evangelize, we cannot call him a false apostle

            most of what he says, even according to this source, agrees with the gospels.

            some of what Paul says is “gospel” and some is his opinion, based on reflection.

            and some of what he said has been taken out of context.

            i would agree that he would be in the “scriptures” section

            • Hi Marianne,

              Likewise, regarding the source I agree with some of what is said- but not necessarily everything. If I had to agree with every single point of doctrine that other theologians wrote before I quoted them, then I would never quote anyone except myself- and I would sort of be acting like Paul, talking about “his gospel”🙂

              I have great respect for Doug Del Tondo’s extensive scholarship on his website, even though I’ve only read a small portion of it. I would say that I’m largely in agreement with him on many points. One difference is that I think he goes a little overboard in trying to “prove” that Paul was a “false apostle.”

              Yes, many things about Paul are questionable, and I largely understand Doug’s reasoning. Also, I think that Luke’s careful choice of words in the Book of Acts was specifically designed to “raise a red flag” for us regarding Paul’s ministry and Paul’s testimony about himself, to show us that Paul frequently stretched the truth, made things up, was a hypocrite, inconsistent, and sometimes disobedient to God.

              For example, Luke actually did NOT record “the account of Paul’s conversion on the road to Damascus” 3 times. He recorded it once, in Acts 9. Then Luke recorded the voice of Paul exaggerating and making things up in Acts 22 and Acts 26, like a fisherman telling a “fish tale” about the “whopper” he caught, and every time he tells the story the fish gets bigger.

              But in spite of Paul’s inconsistencies, ultimately we can’t “prove” that Paul was not really called by Jesus to evangelize. We have to assume that he was, based on the text of the Bible. Of course, Jesus really called Judas Iscariot to be an Apostle, yet he became an apostate… but I’m not going to go down that road now.

              So point-by-point, I’m basically in agreement with your opinions here, and I can’t really “disagree” specifically with the way you’ve worded any of these points.

              Many false religions, maybe most, were started by a “writer” who redefined the meanings of certain religious words, people, or ideas, and who made up his own new religious words and ideas. They often gave themselves a new religious title.

              Muhammad redefined Jesus, and called himself “The Prophet.” Paul the self-proclaimed self-appointed “Apostle to the Gentiles” did that too. This is simply a statement of fact from the text of our “New Testament.”
              But, I don’t dispute that Jesus called Paul to evangelize, primarily the Gentiles.

              In you role as the moderator or editor, I understand that sometimes you may need to stop a little short of what you feel is “the whole truth” in order to allow for discussion, freedom of expression and diversity of opinion within the Body of Christ.

              I think we all want “The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth”, but for different reasons it’s impossible to express or understand that perfectly, since we’re not perfect.
              That’s why I want Jesus, “the way and the truth and the life.” [John 14:6]

      • Hey Matthew,

        Been out of pocket for a little bit. Hope all is well with you and thanks for the video.

        Something that most don’t realize in the Christian Church, is that the Jewish and Gentile Believer’s, up until the latter part of the second century, worshipped together:

        -Keeping the Sabbath
        -Observing the Feasts of Yah
        -Following Kashrut (the dietary instructions)

        The pattern had already been manifest during the days of the Apostles on how we were supposed to live in this life and what we were to follow. It was not until the latter part of the second century that the teachings of Marcion began to corrupt the Gentile believer’s and the All Gentile Christian Church was being birthed, gaining more and more prominence as time went on. And so it has been ever since. Unraveling all of this will take nothing less than the power and revelation of Ruach HaKodesh. We do what we do because we are compelled to do it. But there will come a day when all of this comes together and the eyes of the true followers of Messiah will be opened, both Jew and Gentile.


        • Al,
          Regarding The Feasts of Yahweh,

          Here is a short video that is absolute riot- you will laugh hard, guaranteed.
          “The Birthday Dinner – a Parable”

          I strongly believe in “A” Sabbath, and that it’s not wrong to celebrate it Friday night or Saturday. But practically speaking, I’ve been thinking of “The Lord’s Day” as a “Christian Sabbath”, agreeing with the Westminster Confession on this point (ironically.) Ideally, I would love to start a Messianic service on Friday night here in Los Angeles.

          As for the dietary laws, while I think it’s fine to keep them, I also think that some Messianic congregations tend to make the food laws and a Saturday Sabbath into “the main thing”, which it shouldn’t be.

          • Matthew,

            Watched your video. I think that made last night beer and wings night! You are so right. You are able to observe Sabbath on Friday night or SaturDAY!! Sabbath is from erev (evening) on Friday night (in Gentile reckonning ) to erev on Saturday evening. Many keep Shabbat at that time. But then, I am sure you knew that. Sounds like a winner and a blessing for LA. I used to live pretty close to LA when I was growing up and just after getting out of the military. Anaheim, to be exact.

            As far as Kashrut goes, it was not given as a suggestion, but rather a commandment. One that brings a certain level of healthiness to our diet by restricting foods that, through science, we have come to understand hold certain qualities that are not in sync with our bodies. In addition to that the act of obedience brings a layer of protection over our physical bodies and bodily processes. At least that is what I have found to be the case. But everyone is free to make these choices as they will. It has always been that way. That is just how I see it, but then what do I know!? Only one man’s thoughts.

            As far as worshipping and honoring our Master Yahshua on Sunday, I think that is also great. In fact, we have liberty in Messiah to worship everyday of the week, if we choose, which I think some do. But to neglect the 7th day for the 1st day, is to me at least, not a good idea. If a man feels persuaded in his reasoning that Yah didn’t actually mean what He said, then that person is free to explore and find the certainty and surety of His Word!? To not know is one thing. To know and willfully disobey is totally different. But again, this is just me. That is what is so great about the Father, He doesn’t force anyone. We either willfully obey or disobey. He always compels us to come to Him, but never by force.


            • Hi Al,

              Your comments have real substance behind them, and I appreciate that. It seems our “gold standard” for right and wrong is the same- “God’s commandments and the testimony of Jesus.”
              [Revelation 12:17]

              In other words The Torah ( the Law of Moses), and
              The Gospels (The Torah made flesh.)

              I’m glad we also have The Prophets & the Prophecy, and
              The Writings and the Letters too,
              making up the 66 books of the Bible.

              A) Regarding the Feasts of Yahweh,
              my wife and I are totally on board theologically, intellectually, and emotionally. But it’s been hard to find like-minded people here in Los Angeles to celebrate with.

              B) About the Sabbath,
              What do you do with these verses in The Gospel and The Prophecy?John 20:19 & 20:26 & Revelation 1:10

              Here is a passing personal comment in a personal letter that is part of the third category of the New Testament, “The Letters” aka “The Scripture” which is not authoritative but may prove helpful:
              1 Corinthians 16:1-2

              C) About the Mosaic food laws,
              What do you do with these chapters from the Gospel & the Prophecy?
              Mark 7, Acts 10, 11, 15

  68. Where is the Voice of Jesus = IN HIS WORD

    JOHN 1:1 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    JOHN 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.
    JOHN 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

  69. I think the fulfillment is at hand of Howard Morgan’s vision in 2004
    Shown in Sid Roth’s “It’s Supernatural”

    Guest: Howard Morgan
    Monday, November 8, 2004
    Biblical roots of Christianity

    Howard said the following:

    “I got a vision, a picture in my spirit. I saw a classic country American church- one story, pitched roof and a steeple. And then all of a sudden I watched this building literally split in half from top to bottom, and at the base of the split this enormous tree emerged, the Tree of Life. It was breaking this building in half. That’s when I heard The Lord say to me these words: “I’m going to deliver the Body of Messiah from the spirit of the Christian religion” … There is a demonic entity called the spirit of religion. And there is a demonic entity, a principality, called the Spirit of the Christian Religion. And that spirit has insidiously, infected, infested the Body of Christ through the centuries…”

    Link to the archive page:

    • God is not removing the righteous from the Christian church…

      God does not remove the righteous from his Church..

      According to the words of Jesus the TARES are taken out of His kingdom…matthew 13-41, 43, 49.. and when they are removed the righteous shine forth…The wheat and the tares gorw together until God separates them… These are the narrow way and the broad way of Matthew 7…

      Revelation 12 …the dragon’s tail (false prophet) drags one third of the stars (Christian congregation) out of the woman’s crown and casts them down to earth..These reappear in Revelation 13.. These are the earth beast that comes of the earth…These HAD (past tense) two horns like a lamb of God but are now indwelled by the dragon and speak thus…This is happening now…It is called Chrislam… obama is delivering Christians to the dragon islamic beast..
      Rev12 is about the seed of he womn and the serpent,… genesis 3-15..
      I reaaly like Sid Roth but I always check what is said by him or anyone with the Words of Jesus and with the Bible…

  70. Matthew – Its good to hear other Brothers saying the truth about the matter of Religion. I have been telling people this for 15 to 20 years. Praise God people are starting to see it. Its Jesus Christ Living in you the Hope of glory. Its still a mystery how you become a Christian to millions of so called Christians. But its like Politics – you just cannot seem to grasp the evil of it till its to late. Most people in the World are very “Religious”. But Jesus Christ IN YOU is the only way you going to have Eternal life.

    Todays church’s should be “caught up” “come up hither” like John was in Rev. 4. And see the Whole panoramic view of Christianity. Not just a side thing you like doing. Not just reading the bible a few minutes a week. Not in letting a man baptize you in water, not keeping some holy day, not drinking a little cup of wine every week, not shouting, not speaking in tongues none of those things are the Evidence you have the HOLY SPIRIT. . Everyday is Holy to Gods people the bible says. Not just cleaning up a little and quit smoking or drinking and swearing. That’s good works and it not bad. But that alone will not give you eternal life.

    Its a LIFE given over “completely” to Jesus Christ. The whole of the Epistles were written for our sake so that we would not be deceived.
    Yet the Epistles have been shredded by the scholars of our day and past days gone by. Most Christians do not want to even discuss doctrines in a serious manner.

    Millions of Christians do not even know that the “dark ages ” of the Christians church was just that, DARK AGES OF DECEPTION by the institutional mainstream church of the deceived. Its still going strong today.

    As Israel was in Jesus day so is Main stream church’s today so blind they could not see Jesus if He did manifest right in front of them. The Word is the manifestation of Jesus Christ. By Faith = a revelation given you by the Holy Spirit and that is the Rock that Peter stood when He said Jesus was the Son of God which interpreted correctly was saying “He is God”. So many looking for a literal Jesus to come from the literal clouds and say Here I am. Now you are Saved. Come unto me. When your WHOLE LIFE HE has been saying “Come unto me” and ye would not.

    People are still waiting for the Rapture to save them and Raise them up into salvation. And Have no idea – The Rapture is your Revelation of the New Birth that Raises you up into New dimensions – Of Knowing and Having Jesus Christ IN YOU. “He raised your dead man” “soul”into a brand new soul that will live eternal by the New Creation. You can receive the Celestial body right now while you are ALIVE Paul said. It kill your old spirit and gives you a HOLY SPIRIT to guide you all your life. After Jesus raised Lazarus HE said. “I AM” THE RESURRECTION AND LIFE =zoe – Eternal life.

    But most of you will say “ty” is a crazy man. Go ahead that’s alright. But I know in whom I serve and who is living in me. And I know the Bible says Jesus will come as a “thief in the night”. He did in Israel’s day – He was a thief in the night to most all of Israel and they was looking at Him. This is why many will never see him. Even if He did appear which He has already.
    How come the Roman Soldier knew that was the Son of God on the Cross How come the Thief after a brief encounter with Christ KNEW that was Christ and the Religious world was to busy making fun of him and accusing him of sin, and scorning HIM. Maybe that will help somebody that reads this post. Christ reveals Himself to every person in the world and its up to you to recognize that call and submit to Him your whole life.

    Cause the Messiah did not preach or act like they did. He did not come out of their schools so he was an out cast to begin with in Israel. But Praise God Jesus knew whom He chose to serve Him. The “Little flock”.

    bro ty

    • Hi Tom,
      I agree with you comment here:
      “As Israel was in Jesus’ day so are Main Stream churches today. They are so blind they could not see Jesus if He did manifest right in front of them.”

      Just as Muslims are blindly following the life example and teachings of Muhammad without question, most Bible-believing Western Christians are doing the same thing with Paul the Pharisee. They are listening to the voice of another “holy man” from his own “holy writings” rather than the voice of Jesus recorded by the 4 Gospel writers in our “Bible”.

      A man named Paul wrote a personal letter addressed to his younger helper Timothy, and buried in the middle of text of the letter Paul wrote “All Scripture is God-breathed.”

      OK. BEFORE we start start playing Paul’s game on Paul’s ballfield…… BEFORE we start asking ourselves “what did Paul mean” by the terms “Scripture” and “God-breathed”…… BEFORE we analize Paul’s letters and realize that Paul only wrote to specific individuals or churches, not the universal Body of Christ, and we ask ourselves if this was because Paul did not have Apostolic authority to speak to the whole church…… BEFORE we ask ourselves if Paul thought the personal letter he was writing to Timothy was “Scripture”…… BEFORE all that, we need to “let every matter be established by the testimony of 2 or 3 witnesses.”

      Did anyone agree with Paul that “All Scripture is God-breathed”?
      Jesus? The Apostles appointed by Jesus? Moses? The Prophets? Anyone else in the pages of the 66 Books of what we call the Bible? Did anyone agree with Paul on that point of doctrine?

      In the case of Paul’s statement ““All Scripture is God-breathed” the answer is NO. No one agreed with Paul on that. The Apostle Peter wrote “no PROPHECY of Scripture came about by the PROPHET’S own interpretation.” [2 Peter 1:20]

      Peter didn’t speak about “all Scripture” but about prophecy of Scripture. And of course, Peter confirmed as Jesus did, that one man’s own personal interpretation or opinion is not valid. “Every matter must be established by the testimony of 2 or 3 witnesses.”

      In one of Paul’s letters, Paul wrote some cryptic comment about “baptism for the dead,” which has no connection to anything anwhere else in the Bible. So the Mormon church picked up this wacky piece of nonsense, and has made an entire doctrine affecting millions of people, based solely on one strange comment Paul the Pharisee made in one of his personal letters. But before we laugh and point fingers, let’s consider what we’ve done with “All Scripture is God-breathed.”

      If you’re reading Paul’s letters by themselves, and debating about “Paul wrote this, and Paul said that, and Paul did this, and so that is what Paul really meant”, etc. etc. you are playing the wrong game in the wrong ballpark. You are riding the merry-go-round of Paul the Pharisee, not following the Lord God Jesus the Christ, the Jewish Messiah, son of Yahweh the Most High God.

  71. Hebrews 10-25…Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching….
    Jesus did not root up the tares in his kingdom lest the wheat also be uprooted…
    He also is not taking the righteous out and leving the tares in his kingdom aka church…He did not fail….

  72. Matt 17-1,….Mark 9-2….Luke 9-28….Seemingly a discrepancy in these three verses… Matt and Mark said Jesus and the apostles went up the mount AFTER SIX DAYS…bUT Luke says this event occured after ABOUT AN EIGHT DAYS….
    pOSITIVELY NOT A DISCREPANCY…ABOUT EIGHT DAYS which could mean six or seven or even nine days….which are all AFTER six days… ..

    Matthew why do you choose to believe the four gospels which were written by men that were insprired by the holy ghost and not believe the rest of the gospel which was written by men inspiried by the holy ghost???

    Sorry you had to throw me away…

    • e1313ruth, Matthew Perri is a cherry picker who “picks out” scriptures that suit him.That he finds applicable. True children of the Most High God are to run away from false mouthpieces such as him.

      He is using HUMAN reasoning and logic instead of God lead wisdom in his arguments. They come from his OWN mind and NOT the mind of God.

      He perverts the truth of the scriptures to his own detrament and leads others astray as well with his poisoned teachings.

      If any listen and take heed to charlatans such as this, they do so at their own peril.

  73. Hi Marianne, Al, and Tom,
    In response to your recent postings.

    Following Jesus and becoming more like Jesus was.
    That is my goal.

    Not “be just like Jesus is”, (but rather becoming more like Jesus was.) Not “follow Paul and be like Paul because Paul said so” – That is the cult of Paul the Pharisee, which actually has its roots back in the 2nd century with a man named Marcion.

    Marcion was a second century heretic who made his own “Bible” composed of nothing but 10 of Paul’s letters and an abbreviated Gospel of Luke. Marcion set up a rival group of churches based in Rome, which existed for hundreds of years, until they disappeared from view- when Constantine merged them into “The Roman Catholic Church. (You can easily do an Internet search on this, now that you know what to look for- I’m not going to type out all the details here.)

    If I’m trying to be more like Jesus was, I should listen to the voice of Jesus first, recorded in the Red Letters in the Gospels. To correctly understand “what are the Scriptures” I can see what JESUS said about the Scriptures FIRST, and look at everything else through the lens of Jesus’ opinion.

    The “glasses” that we look through should NOT be the traditional interpretation of Paul’s opinions in his letters, sometimes backed up by the traditional MISinterpretation of Peter’s opinions in his letters.

    Peter writes [1 Peter 1:10-12 and 2 Peter 1:19-21] about “the PROPHETS” “the word of the PROPHETS” “no PROPHECY of Scripture came about by the PROPHET’S own interpretation” and “PROPHECY.” Peter did not write “all Scripture.” It isn’t in the text. So please don’t try to tell me “but it’s the same thing” and give your own interpretation “that’s what Peter meant.” It isn’t the same thing at all, according to Peter or according to Jesus.

    As a Jew, Jesus understood the Scriptures to be in 3 parts, in order of priority.
    .1) Torah
    The Law of Moses (1st five books)
    .2) Nevi im The Prophets
    Joshua, Judges, Samuel, Kings, & MOST of what we see as “Prophets”
    .3) Kethuvim The Writngs
    Psalms, Proverbs, Job, Ecclesiastes, Daniel (surprisingly), and others.

    For ease of reference:
    Here is the Orthodox View of what the Bible is.

    020. What does the word Bible mean?
    It comes from the Greek biblios and it means “the books.” The
    name signifies that these sacred books are uniquely authoritative
    witnesses to Jesus Christ. As such, they deserve attention before
    all others.
    However, within the corpus of the Bible, there is a hierarchy
    of witnessing power and dogmatic authority. The Gospels hold a
    unique place as witnesses to the Truth and only the Gospels are
    placed on the Holy Table in the sanctuary.

    036. Is there any division of the books of the Old
    Testament by which you can give a more distinct
    account of their contents?

    In the Gospels of Luke, the Lord gives the following
    threefold division:
    ”These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still
    with you– that everything written about me in the law of
    Moses, the prophets, and the psalms must be fulfilled.” (Luke

    So there in the words of Jesus in Luke 24:44 we see how Jesus viewed the Scriptures, reflecting the 3-fold division, in order of priority.

    When Jesus was asked which commandment was the most important, Jesus didn’t respond “it’s all profitable” and “all scripture is God-breathed” or “everything in the 66 books of the Bible is equally authoritative and equally important.” No.

    Jesus responded this way: Jesus summed up the Law and the Prophets with TWO commandments, not one.
    [Matthew 22:34-40 & Mark 12:28-34]

    An Evangelical today might want to say: “But Jesus, what about the Kethuvim, The Writings? Why are you ignoring them? Are you questioning the inerrancy of the Bible?”

    If you read the words of Jesus in the 4 Gospels, you will see that Jesus frequently spoke about “The Law” or “The Law and the Prophets,” because they were authoritative. He did also refer to the Psalms and other parts of “The Writings” at times, but much less, because they are not as authoritative and not as important as The Law and The Prophets.

    Brother Paul writing extensively about his own feelings, experience, emotions, travel schedule, ministry model, opinions, ideas, and unsupported testimony about himself is not “God’s commandments” even though it’s “in the Bible.”

    Paul and his writings should correctly be seen sort of like we see Solomon and his writings. Solomon was a spoiled, burned out old liberal who had fallen out of fellowship with God for a large part of his life, and he wrote in Ecclesiastes: “everything is meaningless” and “there is nothing new under the sun.” Those were Solomon’s FEELINGS after being a rich playboy “doing his own thing” away from God for years.
    In reality, everything isn’t meaningless, and there are new things every morning- for those who walk with our Heavenly Father through His Son Jesus the Jewish Messiah, and have eyes to see the truth.

  74. Marianne
    I think some wolves have entered into your online flock…

    Before you believe those who are trying to slander Paul type in the word apostle in the blue letter bible and see Paul the apostle.

    Then consider that Paul was the most instrumental apostle that exposes Islam from H—- to breakfast.. 2 Corinthians 11-14..He said Satan comes as an angel of light….This is Mohammed posing as the light aka Jesus…Paul told us when he comes he brings another gospel, that teaches another Jesus and another spirit of god.. These are Koran, Issa, and Allah…Paul also said This temptation is same as Eve’s temptation…

    Paul also exposed the foundation of Islam which is of Ishmael..
    Galatians 4-23, 24….But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise..For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. This old covenant is the same laws and punishments of Islam today.. And this covenant leads to death…
    Ishmael was never the chosen blood line of Abraham, therefore Mohammed was a fraud… Ishamel was cast out and must come through Jesus SON OF GOD as do all of us..

    As forJesus being a Jew…..Just not true…. He was a blood line descendant of Abraham.. But these are called Israelites, not Jews…Jew is a religion..The word Jew is actually slang but it represents a religion… Specifically of the old covenant.. Christianity is of the new covenant…..

    Words of Jesus concerning Paul…
    Acts 9-13..But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: Wow Paul was chosen to witness to just about everyone…

    Me thinks Satan is trying to save his kingdom of Islam by badmouthing Paul…

    As for Paul, the apostles and myself…we are chosen witnesses.. And we witness to the truth that Jesus is God…FORMED IN FLESH….
    Isaiah 43-10…Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

    Jesus entire life was example for man to follow….His baptism, his temptation, his prayers to the father, etc.. All example for man to emulate…Think about it…Jesus was sinless…He needed no baptism…HE was the holy ghost….His baptism was example for us to follow…Jesus said repeatedly FOLLOW ME….

    Jesus is God,, you cannot tempt God..His temptation was example for us to follow when the Islamic beast tempts the entire world..
    Satan told Jesus to turn stones into bread….This can be likened to turning the commandments written on stone and the 600 plus laws concerning them into bread…That will never happen..Turning stones into break is also the act of accepting Mohammed as a cornerstone like Jesus…See Jeremiah 51-26…Turning stones into bread also means to take the stones of Koran verses and insert them into the Bible thereby making them as bread… Like for instance Saying Mohammed is the prophet of Deut 18-18 or that Mohammed is the comforter of John 14-16..
    Satan then tells Jesus to cast Himself down from his heavenly position that his angels would watch over Him lest He dash his foot against a stone…Satan wanted him to investigate the stone dead Koran verses…Satan knew full well Christians feet are clad with the preparation of the gospel of Christ and he knew if one believes the Koran their feet specifically their heels become bare…This is how Satan bruise the heel -Genesis 3-15…
    The last temptation Satan promised that all Muslim children would inherit the world if they would fall down and worship him as the God of Abraham…Jesus told Satan to get HENCE and he has indeed gotten HENCE to today…We are in the hour of temptation when synagogue of Satan tempts the entire world to worship him as the god of Abraham , the god worshipped in synagogue…HE LOSES BIG TIME AND FOREVER…..Satan also questioned as to Jesus being Son of God…as did Mohammed….

    Satan’s Islam is trying to make null and void the new covenant of Jesus….They deny original sin which means we do not need redeemed….They deny Jesus death and resurrection which makes void payment for sin and restoration… They deny Jesus is Son of God Son of God applies to all those the holy ghost indwells… Believing Jesus is Son of God is requirement for being restored as sons of god… That Adam lost for all.. Satan is trying to hold on to his world…He knows his days are numbered…

    • As I had commented before, Jesus Himself called Paul, and Paul gave his life for his faith.

      that is enough for me, I do think islam is a major player ….

  75. I was pretty sure you would know the truth about Paul Marianne…

  76. If Matthew should condemn anyone it should be the “JEWS” who condemned and had Jesus killed instead of Paul who died for Jesus and us…..
    John 8 is a good starting place… The JEWS said they were children of Abraham,,, Jesus said not children, but seed…These said they worshipped the God of Abraham, but Jesus said they worshipped Satan as the God of Abraham…

    Matthew 23 calls the pharisees, serpents, vipers…Jesus said they were responsible for all deaths on earth back to and including Abel…Which surely means their doctrines were same as Cain’s….

    The Jews wanted to stone Jesus, condemned Him because he healed on the Sabbath, Called Him a blasphemer because Jesus said He is Son of God, and in time were instrumental in having Jesus killed..

    The Jews of Jesus day had been infiltrated same as Christianity has been today…Many of these Jews were seed of Abraham, (see John8) not Sons of Abraham which means they were of Esau, ishamel and not of Isaac….These were of those who had Jesus killed….
    A Jewish warrior name John Hycanus conquered Idumea and forced the occupants to convert to Judaism..These were of Ishamel and Esau’s blood lines..These are who condemned Jesus and had Him killed…

    The bloodline of Isaac are those Jesus sent the apostles to fish for…He made them fishers of men as Jeremiah 16-16 prophesied… They gathered much of Isaac’s blood line into Christianity…

    Jeremiah 16-15,16..But, The LORD liveth, that brought up the children of Israel from the land of the north, and from all the lands whither he had driven them: and I will bring them again into their land that I gave unto their fathers. Behold, I will send for many fishers, saith the LORD, and they shall fish them; and after will I send for many hunters, and they shall hunt them from every mountain, and from every hill, and out of the holes of the rocks.


  77. e1313ruth,


    Blessings to you
    Psalm 27

  78. Marianne,

    Where would anyone get the idea that “Paul died for us?” That somehow Paul was “all things to all men” and that Paul “saved” people?

    Or that when Jesus said “it is finished”- meaning literally “paid in full”- on the cross, that Jesus was lying? And really the work of Jesus on the cross was not a finished work, that something was “still lacking?” And so really the church, the Gentiles, needed a Second Messiah to the Gentiles to fill up in his flesh what was still lacking for the sake of the body of Christ, which is the church?

    How would someone get such ideas? Easy- if they believed everything Paul wrote about himself.
    Paul wrote:

    A) “I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some.” [1 Corinthians 9:22]

    B) “Let no one cause me trouble, for I bear on my body the marks of Jesus.” [Galatians 6:17]

    C) “Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ’s afflictions, for the sake of his body, which is the church.” [Colossians 1:24]

    Yes, Paul really said all these things about himself. You can open your Bible and see for yourself. Paul had a “messiah complex.” And these claims Paul made about himself are false. But that does not prove that Paul never knew Jesus, or that he was wrong about everything.

    • I suggest that you do not twist scripture.

      Paul never claimed to have died for anyone.

      you do not understand what you are reading…..

      no one here is saying jesus was lying either, so do not go there.

      you need to read things in context,

      a. paul became as a greek to appeal to greeks, a roman to appeal to romans, etc… that he could bring the MESSAGE of salvation to the people.

      b. Paul was beaten for his evangelistic efforts

      c. he sacrificed himself and suffered persecution for his faith. we are not only to join jesus in the power of his resurrection but in the fellowship of his suffering….

      jesus said we would suffer persecution for our faith..this is what happened to paul

  79. Jesus was not a Jew — He Was GOD in a flesh body. He Was the Word LOGOS as well. To look and know Jesus Christ you was looking at all the Concepts of Gods thinking what he wanted Man to Be.

    That’s why GOD loved all mankind. Yet raised in a Jewish house because it was Prophecy fulfilled. They were only ones that new any concepts of Gods thinking because God sent them TRUE Prophets.

    It was the “Blood of God” That flowed through Jesus veins. And by Faith we have that same “Life that Jesus Had in His Blood in ours – After the transforming into a “New Creation”. His Blood Cell of Life is in Me NOW. I’m Eternal Now not going to be. I am already living in the Eternal. I have the Celestial man living in me and He Jesus has taken me over. This is the Hour of Bride and the Priest hoods, and of Judgments, and the “Son of David” ministry. We are called to Conquer all things.

    Bro ty

    • Bro,

      Do you have a mom? What is her nationality, Irish? Maybe Jewish?

      Mary (Jesus’ mom) was Hebrew.
      Jesus had DNA that gave Him the human qualities and physical attributes from His mother.

      I understand the mother contributes a great deal of physical artributes to the baby, child and adult. Hair, skin, and more.


      Psalm 22

  80. John 19-29, 30.. After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, THAT THE SCRIPTURE MIGHT BE FULFILLED, , saith, I thirst…. V. 30..Jesus said, ”IT IS FINISHED”
    When Jesus said it is finished He meant all the prophecies about Him was fulfilled…Type in the word FULFILLED in blue letter bible and see fulfilled prophecies….
    When Jesus said IT IS FINISHED He did not mean the work of the apostles, including Paul and the ministers, teachers, prophesy, healing, etc…

    I am equally sure that when Jesus said, IT IS FINISHED he also meant his work on earth as a man…First He came to establish who God really is… The entire world except Judaism worshiped the astrology gods prior….
    He also came to show men that way back to the real God, repentance, baptism of water and holy ghost and more…He also, by his temptation showed men an example to follow when they,including the entire population on earth would be tempted by the synagogue of Satan, aka Islam…

    Some people need to learn to read…. You cannot take one verse out of the Bible and build on it…As Jesus said , you must live by every word of God… When Satan said “command these stones be made bread” one thing he meant was to take a verse or two out of context and build a big lie on it…as do many cults today… For instance Jehovah’s witnesses.. They move one comma and split God into two God’s, the big God Jehovah and the little God Jesus…
    Luke 23-43..And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee,,,,,,,,, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise….Jesus told the thief He would take him to paradise ON THAT DAY…
    Jw’S SAY Since Jesus was in hell three days He could not take the thief to paradise on THAT DAY…So they moved the comma thus..
    And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee to day,,,,,,,,,, shalt thou be with me in paradise.
    JW’s say Jesus said it on THAT DAY and would take him to paradise in the future…
    The truth is,,,,,Jesus is omnipresent God and he can be in heaven and in hell at the same time…

    Please Matthew learn to read better so I can get off your back…

  81. The Bible does not say Paul or the apostles and even he early Christians died for Jesus and for the sake of mankind but I feel they did…Had they not died their words would not have carried much weight….I also feel they as do many missionaries throughout the last 2000 years died both for Jesus and mankind…
    It is possible when Jesus said to follow Him he also meant a sacrifical death…
    Anyway I am grateful for all those who had enough love to die…I am not sure I could qualify…and I have always known it is a possibility especially today with the Islamic beast that is killing those who won’t bow to the allah beast as we speak in 140 coutries.

  82. ty DJ..Psalms 27 was perfect for my day….It helped me a lot…

    • e1313ruth,

      I decided to post Psalm 27 for all to read, knowing the power of the Word causes the enemy remember that they are defeated. Let’s call this a rebuke, in the Mighty name of Jesus. Are you in agreement?

      “The Lord is my light and my salvation.Who is there to fear?

      The Lord is my life’s fortress. Who is there to be afraid of?

      Evildoers closed in on me to tear me to pieces. My opponents and enemies stumbled and fell. Even though an army sets up camp against me, my heart will not be afraid.

      Even though a war breaks out against me, I will still have confidence in the Lord.

      I have asked one thing from the Lord. This I will seek: to remain in the Lord’s house all the days of my life in order to gaze at the Lord’s beauty and to search for an answer in his temple.

      He hides me in his shelter when there is trouble. He keeps me hidden in his tent. He sets me high on a rock.

      Now my head will be raised above my enemies who surround me. I will offer sacrifices with shouts of joy in his tent. I will sing and make music to praise the Lord.

      Hear, O Lord, when I cry aloud. Have pity on me, and answer me.
      When you said, “Seek my face,” my heart said to you, “O Lord, I will seek your face.”

      Do not hide your face from me. Do not angrily turn me away. You have been my help. Do not leave me! Do not abandon me, O God, my savior!

      Even if my father and mother abandon me, the Lord will take care of me.

      Teach me your way, O Lord. Lead me on a level path because I have enemies who spy on me.

      Do not surrender me to the will of my opponents. False witnesses have risen against me.They breathe out violence. I believe that I will see the goodness of the Lord in this world of the living.”

  83. Richard, That poem is fantastic… It puts my poetry to shame… alas…

  84. Matthew,

    Do you not think Paul did this for good reason; and what do you think Paul could achieve by being whimsical, particularly with regard to Jews?

    In 1 Cor. 9:19-22, Paul said that when he was among Jews he acted like a Jew and when among Gentiles he was like them. He said he was all things to all men so as to save some. Since Timothy was a young man whose mother was Jewish, and since they were going among the Jews, he circumcised him to help him be accepted by the Jews.

    In Galatians 2:3 we see that Paul refused to circumcise Titus, because he wanted to show those who claimed that circumcision was necessary to be saved, were wrong.

    Sounds like a man who was willing to go the extra mile for the cause of the “one new man” in Christ . What a blessing to mankind!…..

    • “Do I not think Paul did this for good reason…?”

      Here is the full text of the song you’re singing right now:

      [sing it to the tune of “Rapture” by Blondie]

      I’m Boss Paul, the Pharisee
      My hypocrisy’s plain for the world to see
      I travel the land and travel the sea
      to make a convert who is just like ME

      “All have sinned” – we know that’s true
      but it never means ME – it only means YOU
      My sins are all theoretical
      “I’m the worst of sinners”- but don’t ask where

      To be more like Jesus is what some strive
      except for me – I’ve already arrived
      I’m the perfect model since the road to Damascus
      What were Paul’s sins? Don’t ask us!

      I justify everything I do
      If I testify about myself it MUST be true
      I’m the only man in all history
      whose testimony doesn’t need two or three

      If I did something it MUST be right
      Don’t use the Scripture to shed any light
      Don’t do as I say, do as I do
      and then you can be a Pharisee too.

    • Well said Brother Richard;
      Living for Jesus is not just a choice, it is a life style, to be totally sold out to Him and Him alone!

      He must be first in our lives before anything or He we will find us in default and not running our race correctly, if we fail to do it His way (Jn.14:6) we will find ourselves coming in at the finish line first only to find out we have been disqualified for a technicality, called self will or presumptuous sin which is the unforgiveable sin of any age. Mt.12:31-32 & 46-50.

  85. matthew.

    false comparisons and exaggerated scripture is not allowed. deleted. You really need to get control over your feelings

    • Hi Marianne,
      Thank you for caring enough to provide needed correction in your role as editor. You are right on at least 2 points.

      Point # 1) I did make a “faulty comparison” in my “Letter to the Angelenos.” Human governments have been given some authority to make (or abolish) human laws. But God never gave Paul authority to make or abolish God’s laws.

      The words of Paul are not equal to the words of God – no one in the pages of the Bible (except Paul himself) every said or implied that they were equal or the same. The voice of Paul is not the voice of God – in spite of what Paul may have written, said, or thought about himself, and in spite of what “Paulists” throughout history, from Marcion in the 2nd Century until today, think or say about Paul.

      No man’s testimony is valid without another witness. Not even Jesus made that claim about himself, if you read His words in the Gospels in context.

      Here is the recipe for a cult or false religion.
      A “special person” comes along, writes testimony about himself and his own unique interpretation of The Torah, The Prophets, who Jesus is, and then says:

      “Follow me and my teachings because I said so – I don’t need another witness, because God is my witness.”
      So, many people respond, and say: “I will follow “X” because “X” said so, and “X” doesn’t need another witness because God is his witness.”

      You can fill in the blank, replacing “X” with:
      .A) Paul
      .B) Muhammad
      .C) Mr. Smith of the Mormon Church
      .D) Mr. Moon of the Moonies Unification Church
      .E) Mr. Lee
      .F) the list goes on, and on….

      Point # 2) When I posted my “Letter to the Angelenos” yesterday, I did it with “emotion” but the wrong spirit. I originally wrote the text of that “letter” as a parable a few years ago. At that time, I had already understood that Paul the Pharisee was often a hypocrite. (I wonder why this is surprising.) But, at that time, I had not yet realized that Paul’s TEACHINGS were also frequently wrong.

      Paul wasn’t wrong about everything. But Paul was wrong about A LOT, including even “the most important commandment’ according to JESUS. So my understanding of Paul was less complete a few years ago than it is now, which is why I made a “faulty comparison” back then.

      Paul didn’t need “apostolic authority” to write, nor does his writing prove that he had “apostolic authority.” Other than Peter, Matthew, & John, none of the other Apostles wrote. Being a faithful eyewitness who was in personal relationship with Jesus during the entire earthly ministry of Jesus was the requirement according to Jesus- not writing ability. I think the reason Jesus chose to do it that way was to show that true authority came (and still comes) from personal relationship with Jesus, not impersonal knowledge about Jesus.

      Yesterday I yielded to a temptation that is very common for men who call themselves “pastors” and preach sermons from the Bible. It’s especially tempting if they’ve been preaching for many years and travel around a lot “like Paul…” and have built up an arsenal of sermons from years past to draw from.

      Instead of pausing to consider, pray, listen to God, search the Scriptures, hear from God, and put forth a thoughtful message that was FRESH, I just quickly reached back and pulled out an “oldie but goodie” “zinger” I had used before.
      I microwaved leftovers instead of cooking something fresh.

      Preaching and leading worship with EXCELLENCE in a local church requires a lot of work and preparation time. Yes, there are many church leaders who frequently “rest on their laurels” microwave leftovers and “wing it.” If that has been your church experience, I feel for you.

      But, if you are in a HEALTHY church you shouldn’t think to yourself: “All they do is stand up there and talk, sing, and play the guitar- that’s not working, its ‘Money for Nothing’ as Dire Straights might say.” If you think that way, with all due respect, you are ignorant.

      Fresh preaching, teaching, and worship are a lot of work to prepare. But they are delicious.

  86. to all:

    No where in the Bible will you find where Jesus called Mary his Mother or Joseph his dad. Jesus called his mother – Woman In the KJ.

    Mary was the “incubator only” for God’s Supernatural Son – It was the Blood line of the 1st. Adam that was fallen. Life is in the blood. Adam let sin into his Life’s blood. That is why it had to be PERFECT Blood to redeem us back as God’s Brand New Creations. Supernatural Birth. By faith I have the Blood of God in me because of the Holy Ghost LIFE that recreated me.

    Jesus Was God and God can do anything He wants to do. He can create Himself out of nothing if He needs to. God is AIR – God is Creator – And His Name is 1. Lord 2. Jesus 3. Christ The only Wise God the Bible says.

    God can also build Himself a body of Flesh inside a woman and be born a child. Say that Mary was his mother is very, very carnal. It was the “BLOOD OF GOD” the Bible says that was in Jesus blood gene.

    PS. 78 I believe it is. Says that Israel “Limited the Holy One of Israel” God was a part of Israel. Or I could say the Israelites limited God by their unbelief and doubt. That’s the whole problem today.

    Jesus the Son was in the “Mind of God” Logos – God had the “concept for Salvation” before the World was ever created are names were on the book.

    God knew He was going to become a Man in a flesh body before He ever let a man fall. I believe it . That settles it for me.

    bro. ty

    • “an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream. ‘Get up,’ he said, ‘take the child and HIS MOTHER and escape to Egypt.'”
      [Matthew 2:13]

    • what bible are you reading?

      When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! John 19:26

      Then He said to the disciple, “Here is your mother.” And from that hour the disciple took her into his home. John 19:27

      Jesus never called his mother an “incubator”….I challenge you to prove otherwise.

      • Luke 1-48…For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
        I guess the catholics believe the Bible.. They have upheld the name of Mary for centuries… Me personally I could not sanction prayer to Mary… I have to go to The Lord Himself..But I certainly do respect Mary and know she was blessed…

    • Brother Ty Jesus was from the seed of woman or Eve’s seed could not crush the head of Satan, plus Jesus had to be from the Lineage of King David (So the “Sure Mercies of God” could rest on that line and his sons would rule over Israel forever, Gen.49:8-13!), so He could be the prince of peace as well as the Mighty God, Wonderful, Councilor, the Eternal Father, Jesus is the Son of God according to the flesh but yet the I Am that was before Abraham, He is both LORD and CHRIST the Holy One of Jacob, Is.49:26, Is.9:6; and LORD OF ALL

      in Ac.10:36 as well as I said before both Lord and the Christ, Ac.2:36 who John the Baptist prepared a way for in Is.40:3 shows us it was God which was fulfilled in Mt.3:3!

      BUt please don’t try and say that there is no rapture or calling away for many preached that back in the Apostles day (2 Tm.2:16-18) also as seen in Timothy!

      And as far as red letters in the Bible who do you supposed wrote the red letters anyway; was it not a Disciple of Jesus Christ fulfilling His masters work that was given to Him by the Holy Spirit which was His own (Jn.14:18) Spirit as seen in Jn.4:24; 2 Pt.1:20-21 and 1 Pt.1:10-11 as well as Ro.8:9 and if we do not have the Spirit of Jesus Christ we are not any of His yet still; and what evidences did Peter use when facing the council of elders in Jerusalem for baptizing Cornelius’?

      It was the evidences that they all had received in the upper room all 120 of them as the Holy Spirit sat on each of them! When we read Ac.2:1-4, and the accounts given to us by Luke himself in Acts Chapters 10 through 11: 15And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

      As soon as the council hear that the gentiles had received the same Holy Spirit as they all had the glorified God that He had given repentance to the gentile also! they all spoke with tongues as the Spirit gave them the utterances and we all know from James that the gifts from above are without repentances, Jms.1:16-17. See 1 Cor.14:39 as well.

      And finally but not least; there are many references to Abraham’s seed blessing all nations of the world and this could not have been done unless our Lord used the seed of a Righteous lineage, but you are right about the blood, because the blood type does come from the Father as we see it was the Holy Ghost by which Jesus was conceived as seen in Mt.1:18; 20 and who is God with us our Immanuel as seen in Mt.1:23! When you have seen Jesus you have seen the one who sent Him, Jn.12:14 for the Spirit became flesh, 1 Tm.3:16 the word that was God, Jn.1:1-14!

      Some manucripts even have it the begotten God in verse 18 who is in the bossom of the Father being the Father said repeatedly I Him I Am, well pleased, Mt.3:17 and Mt.17:5!

      This explaines Jn.14:7-9 showing us God in Christ Jesus reconciling the world unto Himself as seen in 2 Cor.5:19-21 so that we can be the righteousness of God in Jesus!

      By being born-again of a new creature as you say and as we see in scripture also; Ro.12:1-2 so if we try to establish a doctrine let us not try to use all scripture but it must agree with all scripture or you have the wrong interpretation of it.

      That is what makes Jesus all man and ALL GOD! Zech.14:9 and Zech.12:10 they will look upon me whom they have pierced; written over 500 years before it came to pass!

      Lords Way Ministries
      Rev. G. L. Boyett

  87. Bro,

    Your reply does not deserve a direct response.

    And, I’m overcoming the temptation to make a joke or apply sarcasm to make a point.

    I bid you adieu.

    Genesis 1:1

  88. Marianne
    I knew I would get this about the Mother. But it was other writers that called Jesus his Mother. Jesus never called her Mother. Jesus said who is my brother, mother, etc etc. Jesus at 12 years old got very mad when Mary said that she and his Father Joseph were looking for him when he was lost in Jerusalem. He rebuked Mary for even that. She denied her own testimony that the Child was from God the Father of all things. No doubt this would be the way any step mother and Father would act.

    So Now we got Mary in the God head. Can you see how just little tiny misconceptions produce very great evil, and great error in Doctrines. I hope you understand. The Word is unleavened Bread. Nothing mixed with it.

    PS. Not trying to be a smart elic or a trouble maker. Or a know it all. Just facts. Now we have 1 billion so called Christians that can speak to Mary in place of Jesus Christ for their salvation. Not one jot or tittle is out of place in the Word of God. Till it all be fulfilled.
    The Devil is a Master at manipulation and falsehood.

    • Tom,
      Jesus was not a “writer.” He didn’t “write” any of the Bible with his own hand. Since every matter must be established by the testimony of 2 or 3 witnesses, Jesus let others write about him.

      This is in contrast to the founders of most cults and false religions we can think of. Paul, Muhammad, Mr. Smith, Mr. Moon, etc.

      For you to say:
      “it was other writers that called Jesus his Mother”
      implies that Jesus was also a “writer”, which He was not.

    • Hi again Tom,

      I appreciate your scholarship here. You have made a good point about a fact in the text of the Scripture, which is actually very important. Even though your ultimate conclusion is faulty (really heresy, no offense), I think your life application is correct (but for the wrong reason.)

      It’s true that the Bible doesn’t record Jesus himself calling Mary his mother. So I agree with you that the ultimate application of this fact is, we should speak like Jesus, and not call Mary our mother either, because she isn’t our mother.

      The fact of Mary being the physical earthly human mother of Jesus is sort of like the fact of our pre-conversion sins as Christians. It’s true, that’s where we came from, and we might mention these things time to time, it’s not taboo. But they are peripheral issues, not the main thing.

      In the text of the Bible, Jesus never spoke about being a carpenter either. Why? Because He wasn’t one before the Holy Spirit descended on Him like a dove? No, but because what Jesus was personally before the Holy Spirit came on Him doesn’t really matter that much, just as our pre-conversion life doesn’t matter that much. That doesn’t mean we forget everything or deny everything, but it simply grows dim in the light of Jesus.

      The world tried to remind Jesus of “his past” saying: “Isn’t this the carpenter? Isn’t this Mary’s son?” [Mark 6]

      Many Christian leaders today, (especially former hippies from the “Jesus Movement” ironically) have a tendency to speak in the same worldly way. Week after week, year after year, they just love to “boast” about “what a sinner I was 40 years ago.” Or when they introduce one of their buddies to a crowd, the first thing they talk about is “what a sinner he was 40 years ago.”

      That is simply appealing to the lustful desires of the flesh to see sin and scandal, because it’s “good for business.” It’s what you can see every day on the covers of dozens of tabloid magazines at the supermarket checkout, and in advertising on the Internet and TV. “Come indulge your flesh and experience my sin- but safely from a distance, for only a nominal cost…”

      • Matthew – the fact that Mary was the mother of Yeshua (Jesus) is very important. The reason for Mary giving birth to the Lord and referenced in the New Testimant is very important.

        Let’s see if you can learn the reason why by reading this passage from Matthew.

        “Now the birth of Jesus Christ was as follows: After His mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Spirit.

        Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not wanting to make her a public example, was minded to put her away secretly. But while he thought about these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream, saying, ‘Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins'”(Matthew 1:18-21, NKJV).

        “So all this was done that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the Lord through the prophet, saying: ‘Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel,’ which is translated, ‘God with us.’

        “Then Joseph, being aroused from sleep, did as the angel of the Lord commanded him and took to him his wife, and did not know her till she had brought forth her firstborn Son. And he called His name Jesus (Yeshua)”, (Matthew 1:22-25, NKJV).

        Whatever your answer is – I’ll not reply. I just want the thread to provide some Scripture (something not written by the Apostle Paul or his friend Luke), that presents Truth so other readers of this oaf page may not be confused or distracted by “words of wisdom.”

        Psalm 64

        • DJ,
          Thanks the relevant quotes from Gospel of Matthew.

          Of course everything about Jesus is at least somewhat important. But do you honestly believe that everything in the 66 books of the Bible is EQUALLY important?

          But do you think that Mary being the mother of Jesus is the MAIN THING?

          Many Roman Catholics think so. For some of them, “the Wedding at Cana” [John chapter 2] is the only part of the Bible that matters. They’ll quote it over and over, and ignore everything else.

          Their false idea is that: “Mary is the one who’s really got the power. Yes, it’s in Jesus name, but if you want results, sneak around to the back door and talk with his mother, and she’ll make Jesus do whatever she says.” The cult of the Virgin of Guadalupe in Mexico is one local example of this, and there are many others around the world.

          I wrote:
          “The fact of Mary being the physical earthly human mother of Jesus is sort of like the fact of our pre-conversion sins as Christians. It’s true, (but it’s) not the main thing.”

          So what is there to disagree about?

  89. Marianne
    I knew I would get this about the Mother. But it was other writers that called Jesus his Mother. Jesus never called her Mother. Jesus said who is my brother, mother, etc etc. Jesus at 12 years old got very mad when Mary said that she and his Father Joseph were looking for him when he was lost in Jerusalem. He rebuked Mary for even that. She denied her own testimony that the Child was from God the Father of all things. No doubt this would be the way any step mother and Father would act.

    So Now we got Mary in the God head. Can you see how just little tiny misconceptions produce very great evil, and great error in Doctrines. I hope you understand. The Word is unleavened Bread. Nothing mixed with it.

    PS. Not trying to be a smart elic or a trouble maker. Or a know it all. Just facts. Now we have 1 billion so called Christians that can speak to Mary in place of Jesus Christ for their salvation. Not one jot or tittle is out of place in the Word of God. Till it all be fulfilled.
    The Devil is a Master at manipulation and falsehood.

    • Tom York, you are wrong. Period. Jesus had an earthly mother NOT an “incubator”. The Holy Spirit concieved Jesus in her womb.

      Real simple. Mary was Jesus’s earthly mother whom Father God chose her to be the human vessel of His Son, Jesus. You complicate/pervert the simple truth of Christ.

      God calls you a FALSE TEACHER. End of. Go start your own religion now.

  90. Al, you refer to Jehovah and Jesus as YHVH and YAH…As I see it you are going backward which is forbidden in scripture…

    The hebrew language is not the pure language God promised to send to man so ALL could call on his name…of Zeph 3-9..For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.The pure language does not appear until all the nations are gathered together as stated in verse -4..Therefore wait ye upon me, saith the LORD, until the day that I rise up to the prey: for my determination is to gather the nations, that I may assemble the kingdoms, to pour upon them mine indignation, even all my fierce anger: for all the earth shall be devoured with the fire of my jealousy. .

    You also are going backward to the old covenant.which is strickly forbidden and leads to the perdition of ungodly men..

    Islam’s doctrines and preactices are identical to old covenant laws and practices , not to mention the fact allah is sin the moon god who was worshipped at Mt Sinai..Mt Sinai was named after Sin the moon god…The golden calf is/was his symbol.and the crescent moon and star were his logo…..

    Is that where you want to lead people?

  91. Hebrews 10-39..But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
    Christians cannot go backward into old covenant practices and doctrines…It is positively a no no..

    The great falling away of Christians in 2 Thessalonians says the falling away reveals these sons of perdition…These Christians turn away from the real God and accept allah as the God of Abraham….ISlam teaches old covenant laws and doctrines and sin the gold-gold calf idol aka allah that led the jews into perdition way back when..
    Is this what you are attempting to do AL????

  92. Al and Matthew both call God a liar….and says His words are corrupt..
    Peter 1-25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

    Isaiah 40-8.. The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

    Psalm 12:6-7 “The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.”

    MATTHEW 24:35 – “Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.”

  93. Hi Marianne,
    I agree with you.
    Here is a relevant quote from John Paul Jackson, from the following video.

    “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God….” [John 1:1]
    that just doesn’t mean the New Testament. Because guess what, when He came and John wrote it the New Testament didn’t exist. He was talking about the word of God, EXPRESSLY THE TORAH. In the beginning was the Torah. And you go whoa; now you’re getting heavy. That should not be heavy to us. That should not be heavy to us. That should be one of those: “of course.” But we take one step at a time.”

    John Paul Jackson – 2/28/2009 Rend The Heavens Conference
    Charlotte NC Mahesh Chavda Ministries


    How would Jesus prioritize “The Books” – the 66 books of what we call “The Bible?”

    Even if you believe that “all Scripture is God-breathed”, Jesus clearly told us that all Scripture is NOT equally authoritative or important. When asked, Jesus summed things up in not 1 but rather 2 commandments, based on only 2 out of the 3 accepted sections of the Hebrew Scriptures- the Law and the Prophets. He didn’t mention the Writings at that time. Then in Luke 24:44 Jesus spoke of “The Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms.”

    I’m not Moses writing tablets of stone. But below is my rough idea of how I think Jesus would prioritize “The Books.” I’m not questioning the content of the texts. But one way or another, the choice of which order to arrange the content of the 66 books in is a matter of human tradition, and there are multiple traditions.

    If you think what we call the “New Testament” has to be in the order of (1) Gospels, (2) Acts, then (3) Paul front and center, you should talk with the Russian Orthodox Church.

    And if you think the order of the books in the King James Version of what we call the “Old Testament” is the only authorized order, you should talk with the Jews. (You also might want to change the name of your Bible to “King Jacob.”)

    But you probably would also need to remind modern Jews that Samuel, Kings, and Chronicles were all originally stand-alone scrolls, not part 1 & part 2.

    I’m not saying, “Thus says the Lord” here. But based on what I know right now of the Jesus of the Bible, and the Bible text itself, here is my best guess at how Jesus would order the priority of “The Books.”

    .1) The Word made flesh- 4 Gospels – Matthew, Mark, Luke, John

    .2) Torah – The Law of Moses – Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy

    .3) The Prophecy – Acts, Revelation

    .4) The Prophets – Joshua, Judges, Samuel, Kings, Major Prophets, Minor Prophets

    .5) Psalms

    .6) General letters: of the Apostles I & 2 Peter, 1 John

    .7) General letters: to the Hebrews, and from James (aka Jacob)

    .8) Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Job, Ruth, Esther and the other Writings

    .9) Personal letters: of The Apostle John, Jude, and Paul

    • Matthew ,John Paul Jackson is a FALSE profit (yes pun intended) who hangs with the false TBN mammon loving crowd. Birds of a feather flock together. No wonder your doctrine is off about Paul.You follow false teachers.

    • Matthew Perri,

      You wouldn’t know a true prophet of God if you saw one.The evidence: you use the false “profit” John Paul Jackson as an example.You have no discernment from the Spirit whatsoever.

      That is very presumptuous and prideful of you to say you would “arrange” the books of the Bible as to how YOU think they should be, and throw out Paul’s letters.

      The Most High God allowed for the 66 books to be “ordered” the way they are and for them to be 66 books.

      There is a reason there are 66 books.

      6 is the number of man, created on the 6th day, but 6 day man is unregenerated man. He hasn’t become BORN AGAIN of the Spirit.

      66 is the symbolic number of man transformed and regenerated by the Spirit of God into the NEW MAN. 6+6=12. 12 is the perfect number, the perfection of God, governmental perfection.The NEW man in Christ is the PERFECT MAN. Paul wrote about the new man in several letters.

      The 66 books of the Bible are a KEY taken all together to become the NEW MAN that Paul often wrote about.Christ made a way for us to become the NEW MAN.

      When you read the 66 books, you can become TRANSFORMED in your mind into having the MIND OF CHRIST because of it’s TRUTH.

      And speaking of numbers, 666 is the number of a BEAST man. If you take his mark and number, you are changed into a BEAST MAN just like the Antichrist and become a permanent son of satan.

      the number 666 is ADDING to the Word of God who is Christ. Something the 66 books of the Bible warn us NOT to do.

      Paul told us about the Beast/man of sin as well. We owe him a debt of gratitude.

      If you stay under the law as just a 6 man, you never become BORN AGAIN of the Spirit of God and are not able to ENTER into His heavenly kingdom. You will ALWAYS stay EARTH bound and unregenerated.

      And if you take the MARK of the 666 man, you are damned for all eternity.

      Become a 66 man and experience the NEW BIRTH.

      Interesting facts:

      1) There are 66 words in the Lord’s prayer.

      2)The 66th chapter of the Bible is Exodus 16, which is the story of manna from heaven. manna is a scriptural metaphor for the word and for Christ.
      Jesus is our manna from Heaven.

      3) “All the souls that came with Jacob into Egypt, which came out of his loins, besides Jacob’s sons’ wives, all the souls were threescore and six” or 66 (Gen. 46:26) Again in these latter-days, Jacob’s seed is instrumental in bringing forth the word of God, to save the world from Spiritual famine.

      • Dear Mr. Beast,

        You didn’t read my post very carefully.
        I wrote there:
        “.9) Personal letters: of The Apostle John, Jude, and Paul”

        So your statement that I ” throw out Paul’s letters.” is false.

        You wrote:
        “The Most High God allowed for the 66 books to be “ordered” the way they are and for them to be 66 books. ”

        Please re-read what I wrote above, and tell me what YOU think is the correct order that God “ordered” the 66 books of the Bible in, and why.

        (For example, if you think that Paul’s letters should follow Acts, please explain why you think this.)

        • Some questions Matthew Perri:

          Have you been born from above, aka “born again” by the Spirit of the Living God?

          Why do you hate Apostle Paul’s letters and what He taught in them so much?

          Do you not believe in GRACE? Or do you believe salvation is “earned”?

          Btw, based on reading other’s comments, you have convinced no one of you have espoused. Everyone of the posters on this forum question your erroneous teaching.

          Maybe you might want to switch to your “AL” pseudonym right about now to answer me. Or “Bethany”….perhaps she is your wifey eh?

          • Hey Beast,

            Matthew is nothing but cordial whether you agree with him or not. You on the other hand are demeaning and rude. Congratulations for painting us a picture of the worst of Christianity at work!

            • so “Al” you just “happen” to be reading the forum right now? interesting…..

              Jesus wasn’t “cordial” to liars and heretical teachers.

              Congratulations on being willfully ignorant and choosing to follow heretical false teaching. I’m doing you a favor telling you the truth bud.

              Why don’t you answer the same questions I asked “Matthew”.

              Btw, I am a disciple of Christ and a follower of God. I don’t follow a “religion”. I follow the Lamb wherever He goes.

        • Mr. Beast,
          In other words,

          .1)You won’t admit you made a false accusation against me saying that I “throw out Paul’s letters” when I never said that at all.

          .2) You won’t admit that you were wrong – putting Paul’s letters directly after Acts in the Bible is NOT ordered by God, but it’s simply one human tradition, and it’s not the only traditional order,

          Now you want to change the subject, and go on the attack again like a ravenous beast, questioning my salvation, making fresh false accusations, falsely claiming to speak for everyone else, when really a number of other people are on my side, and making insulting insinuations.

          Why don’t you open your Bible to the Gospels, and pray to ask Jesus to reveal himself to you?

          • Why don’t you answer my questions “Matthew”? Or is it “Al”?

            What are you afraid of?

            • Beast,

              Why don’t you ask DJ or Marianne if we are the same person. But even that probably wouldn’t work. You are as sure we are the same person as you are about your salvation! Which by the way, puts you in deep jeopardy. You need to rethink your arrogance and humble yourself just a little. No one means you any harm here. All most of us want is honest and open discussion, whether we tend to agree or not. Get used to it if you are going to be here.

              • Al,

                Why are you dragging me into this thread! You don’t like me anymore? Where is the love brother?

                Oh brother! It is obvious to me that you are nuts about God, the Word and the Spirit (1st John 5).

                You are soo nuts that you want to obey Him as much as you can because you love Father God. He sent His Son to shed His blood (Lamb of God) to redeem you from grasp of Satan. You really did accept God’s Son (The Word made flesh) as your personal Messiah.

                Look, I’m trying to eat dinner and trying to watch some B-ball at the neighborhood sports bar (I drink tea), and only have this IPhone. More passages from the Word later, which speak for themselves.

                For now, I like this passage, written for little children (milk diet), easy to understand concepts.

                “My little children, I write you these things so that you may not violate God’s law and sin. But if anyone should sin, we have an Advocate (One Who will intercede for us) with the Father—[it is] Jesus Christ [the all] righteous [upright, just, Who conforms to the Father’s will in every purpose, thought, and action]. And He [that same Jesus Himself] is the propitiation (the atoning sacrifice) for our sins, and not for ours alone but also for [the sins of] the whole world.

                And this is how we may discern [daily, by experience] that we are coming to know Him [to perceive, recognize, understand, and become better acquainted with Him]: if we keep (bear in mind, observe, practice) His teachings (precepts, commandments).

                Whoever says, I know Him [I perceive, recognize, understand, and am acquainted with Him] but fails to keep and obey His commandments (teachings) is a liar, and the Truth [of the Gospel] is not in him.

                But he who keeps (treasures) His Word [who bears in mind His precepts, who observes His message in its entirety], truly in him has the love of and for God been perfected (completed, reached maturity). By this we may perceive (know, recognize, and be sure) that we are in Him: Whoever says he abides in Him ought [as a personal debt] to walk and conduct himself in the same way in which He walked and conducted Himself”(1st John 2:1-6, Amplified).

                Note: The above was written by the Apostle John not the Apostle Paul.

                Heads up, please read over Psalm 119. I’ll be quoting passages from this important portion of Scriptures (“Old Testament”), later. You know that phrase “Old Testament” is a stigma placed on Scriptures by some “scholar”.

                That “Old” label gives the impression (influences thinking) that the books of the law, teachings, books of the prophets and psalms, etc – they were replaced by “New” Scriptures.

                Well try to explain that “Old” label to those Apostles and Believers who read the Scriptures, finding wisdom without the “New Testament” in front of them. They must have been cray too!

                There is also a passage from one of Peter’s letters that applies to this thread too. Neither of these passages from Scripture were written by the Apostle Paul, so they must be authentic, inspired by the Spirit and easy to comprehend, right?

                Al – you are a mighty man of God! Thank you Jesus.

                Psalm 20

              • Al,
                It is becoming increasingly obvious why the “beast” is here:
                to STEAL our time, energy, and peace,
                to KILL our reputations, and
                to DESTROY our conversations and sense of community.

                Harassing us making lots of posts with false accusations, diversions, silly questions and nonsense, ignoring what we really said, misquoting us to confuse other people, refusing to admit when he is wrong on some clear facts that I literally put in front of him, dodging the issue, and then demanding that we “respond to his questions.”

              • Al, after reading all of your comments, I retract my statements accusing you of being “Matthew”. I read your comments in haste. I apologise to you for accusing you of being Matthew. I was wrong in this manner, so again my apologies. Keep fighting the good faith.

                However (not directed to you Al) my comments to Matthew Perri stand, and I will not retract them. It is what the Lord told about him.

                He was warned most sternly by the Lord.

                He is a heretic and a perverter of the truth and Father God HATES what he is doing.

                • O Mr. Beast,

                  Earlier today, just 13 hours and 26 minutes ago –
                  November 21, 2013 at 5:30 am

                  below on this same thread, you posted a comment saying:
                  “I’m done Marianne.
                  I shake the dust off my feet.”


                  Are you a man of your word? Or are you from the evil one?

                  The Lord God Yeshua, Jesus the Christ, the Jewish Messiah, Son of the Yahweh the Most High God, said:

                  “Simply let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes’ and your ‘No’ ‘No’; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.” [Matthew 5:37]

                  • MAtthew

                    You need to behave yourself!!!!!!

                    no personal judgments or insults

                    I feel like I have to break up a fight with unruly kids!!!!

                    please act like adults.!!!

  94. This is so very hard to write..Not because it is complicated but because it is so vast…and so much interlocking information… I hope it is clear…

    The truth about the wonders in heaven, the stars falling, the sun, moon and more…Joel 2-30, 31…Revelation 6-12, 13.. Matthew 24-29..Acts 2-19…etc.

    These two wonders in the heavens are revealed in Revelations 12-1, 3…

    The following verse shows us that Satan and his gang have invaded the heavenly realm…
    Ephesians 6:12 “For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places..”
    This is the wonder in heaven of Revelation 12-3..And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
    This dragon and his seven allies (Matt. 12-34,44,45).are none other than Lucifer of Isaiah 14…He has exalted himself in the heavenly realm as prophesied in Isaiah 14…I am pretty sure he accomplished this feat by convincing people that he is the god of Abraham…His fall is as prophesied coming soon..But before he falls he will take one third of the Christians with him…Hopefully it is only the tares, not the wheat..

    Revelation 12-1And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: ……The woman is the Christian church..The stars in her crown are the congregation, They are both the wheat and the tares who grow together until the days of separating when God removes the tares and kicks them and Satan out of the heavenly realm….

    The following verse shows us that those in the body of Christ are also residing in the heavenly places…
    Ephesians 2-6..And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus..:This is the wonder in heaven of Rev. 12-1..And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
    The woman represents the church and the stars represent the congregation….
    The serpent’s tail (false prophet Isaiah 9-15..) casts one third of the stars down to earth…This means they are no longer in the heavenly realm with Jesus and have become part of the earth beast…rev 13.-11..These no longer have the holy ghost light as the sun…And they no longer have the moon under their feet waiting to be bruised… These have become one with the dragon and speak as a dragon as stated in Rev 13.-11.. Satan who is sin the moon god now indwells these thereby the moon turning into blood..
    Isaiah 34-4…And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree

    Genesis 3-15..And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
    This woman is the woman of Revelation 12 whereby the serpents head is bruised…The tares are those of the woman’s seed that the serpent’s seed bruises their heel…
    Bruising the seed of the serpent is the act of exposing all his lies…God does this and feeds the woman now hidden in the wilderness Rev12-14….This is real spiritual meat for meat eaters not for suckling babes…Ephesians 3-10… To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

    Bruising the heel is what happens when their feet which are clad with the preparation of the gospel of Christ believe the Koran gospel of antichrist….Their feet, i.e. Heels are made bare …Jeremiah 13-22…..Job 18-9..The gin shall take him by the heel, and the robber shall prevail against him.The robber are those who steal the word of God from their victims..Jer .23-30……..Their heels are made bare by teaching them another gospel…

    Rev. 6-12 and 13….And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. …

    Isaiah 34-4…And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree.

    • well written

    • e1313ruth,


      For what it’s worth, I completely see what you are communicating and understand/comprehend the message.

      I consider what you wrote was reading/understanding Scriptures with your spiritual eyes (Rev.3:18).

      You’ve applied Ephesians 6, as we are working out the spiritual war on earth. God judgment will be upon both the earth the evil heavenly realm.

      Yes, and amen regarding the spiritual warfare you “uncovered” within Rev 12. There was a phycial representation on Feasts of Trumpets, 2011 and a spiritual warfare description that began when God said, “Let there be light!”

      Okay, now please re-read Psalm 18:37-50.

      I’ll re-read your post again later today/tomorrow and dig deeper into what the Lord led you to write.

      Rev. 12:11

      • Thank you for your kind words DJ…The truth is the Lord has revealed so much truth to me and others in the last ten years I almost can’t keep up with it..
        He is as promised crushing the serpants head and giving it as spiritual meat…Sometimes I am astounded…

        Like for instance no one knew who antichrist was except a 10th century pope unil after 9-11….People immediaely began reading the koran to see what insanity caused 9-11… It was a short walk to see that mohammed was the promised antichrist…He promised to return during judgment…He is in the white house as we speak….
        The site below explains about antichrist and the madhi….It is very good…But .I do not think the pope is the false prophet of the antichrist when he returns… I think that office is reserved for the tares of Rev 12 and rev 13-11..

  95. Matthew you do not know anything about Jesus or the Bible.. You do not even know why Jesus is called THE WORD OF GOD,,,You do not know that Jesus was the spirit that spoke through all the prophets including the apostles, and paul…
    You ae trying to plant doubt in people’s minds about the words of God as did also mohammed, and joseph Smith and Russel and Rutherford., etc…
    If that is not akin to stealing God’s words out of men’s hearts and minds.. what is ???
    Jeremiah 23-30…

    • Amen 1313ruth. What you said is the TRUTH!

      Matthew doesn’t KNOW Jesus! Until he repents of his FALSE teaching he is an apostate.

      Hes an anathema. Should be banished from this website which is dedicated to the truth of the gospel, not false teaching. He teaches heresy.

      • Jesus said:
        “If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you.”
        [Matthew 18:15]

        Dear “beast”, are you willing to obey the command of Jesus?

        Jesus also said:
        “If I said something wrong,… testify as to what is wrong.”
        [John 18:23]

        • NO, this is not a sin against me personally. You do not know scripture, as what you said above is wrongly applied.

          It is a sin against the TRUTH which is Christ Jesus and against the true body of Christ of which you should have no part in claiming to be a Christ follower of unless you repent.

          this is a public forum.Therefore, I say it publically. You are an apostate and teach heresy.

          You have been warned and admonished several times by others and told WHY you are wrong. I don’t need to repeat their admonishment, from Marianne or 1313ruth. They already stated them. Now you need a REBUKE.

          The Lord Jesus REBUKE you for your false and evil teaching!

          You are a FALSE teacher, if you can even be called that (a teacher) and you preach a FALSE MESSAGE.

          You had your say, ( and were patiently tolerated) and you were called on your very false teaching about Paul and should be banned .

          You are wrong about your teaching on Apostle Paul and you need to repent and come to REALLY know the Lord Jesus Christ.

          Humble yourself before the Lord and let Him set you straight.

          By your FRUIT you show you do NOT honor His word, the scriptures..ALL of them including Paul’s words.

          • Dear Beast,

            You talk a lot, but you don’t say anything.
            Please open your Bible and be specific.

            “If I said something wrong,… testify as to what is wrong.”

            • I suggest you go back and review your comments and people’s replies to you. Such debates can get out of control sometimes, and misunderstandings occur.

            • And you, oh self appointed one, do not realise that judgment is upon you.

              You are part of the beast and do not even know it.

              False and heretical teaching that you espouse is WHY judgment BEGINS in the house of God.

              Repent before it is too late for you to do so.

              • My last comment was specifically directed to the false “teacher” and apostate Matthew Perri, and not Marianne, btw.

  96. Hi Marianne,
    Thank you for caring enough to provide needed correction in your role as editor. You are right on at least 2 points.
    Point # 1) I did make a “faulty comparison” in my “Letter to the Angelenos.” Human governments have been given some authority to make (or abolish) human laws.But God never gave Paul authority to make or abolish God’s laws.

    There is his problem; Paul never did away with the Law if we walk in the Spirit we have fulfilled all the law that has been istilled in the believer’s heart as Jesus said, If you look upon a woman with lust in your eyes you have already commited fonication with her in the eyes of our Lord as the way He sees into everyones heart, He knows what’s on everones minds; just the same as His eternal laws which can never be taken away because they are for all generations, and that is not what Paul is says at all! Ro.8: ffs. We have become the law when we live it in our hearts as it is given to us by our creator as seen in Jer.31:31-34:

    We face many of these same problems today in modern times as well, this is for reference only so that we may identify those and help them on their way!
    (Jms.5:19Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; 20Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.)




    § 112. Judaism and Heathenism within the Church.

    Having described in previous chapters the moral and intellectual victory of the church over avowed and consistent Judaism and heathenism, we must now look at her deep and mighty struggle with those enemies in a hidden and more dangerous form: with Judaism and heathenism concealed in the garb of Christianity and threatening to Judaize and paganize the church. The patristic theology and literature can never be thoroughly understood without a knowledge of the heresies of the patristic age, which play as important a part in the theological movements of the ancient Greek and Latin churches as Rationalism with its various types in the modern theology of the Protestant churches of Europe and America.
    Judaism, with its religion and its sacred writings, and Graeco-Roman heathenism, with its secular culture, its science, and its art, were designed to pass into Christianity to be transformed and sanctified. But even in the apostolic age many Jews and Gentiles were baptized only with water, not with the Holy Spirit and fire of the gospel, and smuggled their old religious notions and practices into the church. Hence the heretical tendencies, which are combated in the New Testament, especially in the Pauline and Catholic Epistles.775
    The same heresies meet us at the beginning of the second century, and thenceforth in more mature form and in greater extent in almost all parts of Christendom. They evince, on the one hand, the universal import of the Christian religion in history, and its irresistible power over all the more profound and earnest minds of the age. Christianity threw all their religious ideas into confusion and agitation. They were so struck with the truth, beauty, and vigor of the new religion, that they could no longer rest either in Judaism or in heathenism; and yet many were unable or unwilling to forsake inwardly their old religion and philosophy. Hence strange medleys of Christian and unchristian elements in chaotic ferment. The old religions did not die without a last desperate effort to save themselves by appropriating Christian ideas. And this, on the other hand, exposed the specific truth of Christianity to the greatest danger, and obliged the church to defend herself against misrepresentation, and to secure herself against relapse to the Jewish or the heathen level.
    As Christianity was met at its entrance into the world by two other religions, the one relatively true, and the other essentially false, heresy appeared likewise in the two leading forms of EBIONISM and GNOSTICISM, the germs of which, as already observed, attracted the notice of the apostles. The remark of Hegesippus, that the church preserved a virginal purity of doctrine to the time of Hadrian, must be understood as made only in view of the open advance of Gnosticism in the second century, and therefore as only relatively true. The very same writer expressly observes, that heresy had been already secretly working from the days of Simon Magus. Ebionism is a Judaizing, pseudo-Petrine Christianity, or, as it may equally well be called, a Christianizing Judaism; Gnosticism is a paganizing or pseudo-Pauline Christianity, or a pseudo-Christian heathenism.
    These two great types of heresy are properly opposite poles. Ebionism is a particularistic contraction of the Christian religion; Gnosticism, a vague expansion of it. The one is a gross realism and literalism; the other, a fantastic idealism and spiritualism. In the former the spirit is bound in outward forms; in the latter it revels in licentious freedom. Ebionism makes salvation depend on observance of the law; Gnosticism, on speculative knowledge. Under the influence of Judaistic legalism, Christianity must stiffen and petrify; under the influence of Gnostic speculation, it must dissolve into empty notions and fancies. Ebionism denies the divinity of Christ, and sees in the gospel only a new law; Gnosticism denies the true humanity of the Redeemer, and makes his person and his work a mere phantom, a docetistic illusion.
    The two extremes, however, meet; both tendencies from opposite directions reach the same result—the denial of the incarnation, of the true and abiding union of the divine and the human in Christ and his kingdom; and thus they fall together under St. John’s criterion of the antichristian spirit of error. In both Christ ceases to be mediator and reconciler and his religion makes no specific advance upon the Jewish and the heathen, which place God and man in abstract dualism, or allow them none but a transient and illusory union.
    Hence, there were also some forms of error, in which Ebionistic and Gnostic elements were combined. We have a Gnostic or theosophic Ebionism the pseudo-Clementine), and a Judaizing Gnosticism (in Cerinthus and others). These mixed forms also we find combated in the apostolic age. Indeed, similar forms of religious syncretism we meet with even before the time and beyond the field of Christianity, in the Essenes, the Therapeutae, and the Platonizing Jewish philosopher, Philo.

    § 113. Nazarenes and Ebionites (Elkesaites, Mandoeans).

    I. IRENAEUS: Adv. Haer. I. 26. HIPPOLYTUS: Refut. omnium Haer., or Philosophumena, 1. IX. 13–17. EPIPHANIUS: Haer. 29, 30, 53. Scattered notices in JUSTIN M.,TERTULLIAN, ORIGEN, HEGESIPPUS, EUSEBIUS, and JEROME. Several of the Apocryphal Gospels, especially that of the Hebrews. The sources are obscure and conflicting. Comp. the collection of fragments from Elxai, the Gospel of the Hebrews, etc. in Hilgenfeld’s Novum Test. extra Canonem receptum. Lips. 1866,
    II. GIESELER: Nazaräer u. Ebioniten (in the fourth vol. of Stäudlin’s and Tzschirner’s “Archiv.” Leipz. 1820).
    CREDNER: Ueber Essaeer und Ebioniten und einen theitweisen Zusammenhang derselben (in Winer’s “Zeitschrift für wissensch. Theol.” Sulzbach, 1829).
    BAUR: De Ebionitarum Origine et Doctrina ab Essaeis repetenda. Tüb. 1831.
    SCHLIEMANN: Die Clementinen u. der Ebionitismus, Hamb. 1844, p. 362–552.
    RITSCHL: Ueber die Secte der Elkesaiten (in Niedner’s “Zeitschr. Hist. Theol.” 1853, No. 4).
    D. CHWOLSOHN: Die Ssabier und der Ssabismus. St. Petersburg, 1856,• vols.
    UHLHORN: Ebioniten and Elkesaiten, in Herzog, new ed., vol. IV. (1879), 13 sqq. and 184 sqq.
    G. SALMON: Elkesai, Elkesaites, in Smith & Wace, vol. II. (1880) p. 95 98.
    M. N. SIOUFFI: Études sur la religion des Soubbas on Sabéens, leurs dogmes, leurs möurs. Paris, 1880.
    K. KESSLER: Mandaeer, in Herzog, revised ed., IX. (1881), p. 205–222.
    AD. HILGENFELD: Ketzergesch. des Urchristenthums, Leip., 1884 (421 sqq.).

    The Jewish Christianity, represented in the apostolic church by Peter and James, combined with the Gentile Christianity of Paul, to form a Christian church, in which “neither circumcision availeth anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature in Christ.”
    I. A portion of the Jewish Christians, however, adhered even after the destruction of Jerusalem, to the national customs of their fathers, and propagated themselves in some churches of Syria down to the end of the fourth century, under the name of NAZARENES; a name perhaps originally given in contempt by the Jews to all Christians as followers of Jesus of Nazareth.776 They united the observance of the Mosaic ritual law with their belief in the Messiahship and divinity of Jesus, used the Gospel of Matthew in Hebrew, deeply mourned the unbelief of their brethren, and hoped for their future conversion in a body and for a millennial reign of Christ on the earth. But they indulged no antipathy to the apostle Paul, and never denounced the Gentile Christians and heretics for not observing the law. They were, therefore, not heretics, but stunted separatist Christians; they stopped at the obsolete position of a narrow and anxious Jewish Christianity, and shrank to an insignificant sect. Jerome says of them, that, wishing to be Jews and Christians alike, they were neither one nor the other.
    II. From these Nazarenes we must carefully distinguish the heretical Jewish Christians, or the EBIONITES, who were more numerous. Their name comes not, as Tertullian first intimated,777 from a supposed founder of the sect, Ebion, of whom we know nothing, but from the Hebrew word, a,b]yron, poor. It may have been originally, like “Nazarene” and “Galilean,” a contemptuous designation of all Christians, the majority of whom lived in needy circumstances;778 but it was afterwards confined to this sect; whether in reproach, to denote the poverty of their doctrine of Christ and of the law, as Origen more ingeniously than correctly explains it; or, more probably, in honor, since the Ebionites regarded themselves as the genuine followers of the poor Christ and his poor disciples, and applied to themselves alone the benediction on the poor in spirit. According to Epiphanius, Ebion spread his error first in the company of Christians which fled to Pella after the destruction of Jerusalem; according to Hegesippus in Eusebius, one Thebutis, after the death of the bishop Symeon of Jerusalem, about 107, made schism among the Jewish Christians, and led many of them to apostatize, because he himself was not elected to the bishopric.
    We find the sect of the Ebionites in Palestine and the surrounding regions, on the island of Cyprus, in Asia Minor, and even in Rome. Though it consisted mostly of Jews, Gentile Christians also sometimes attached themselves to it. It continued into the fourth century, but at the time of Theodoret was entirely extinct. It used a Hebrew Gospel, now lost, which was probably a corruption of the Gospel of Matthew.
    The characteristic marks of Ebionism in all its forms are: degradation of Christianity to the level of Judaism; the principle of the universal and perpetual validity of the Mosaic law; and enmity to the apostle Paul. But, as there were different sects in Judaism itself, we have also to distinguish at least two branches of Ebionism, related to each other as Pharisaism and Essenism, or, to use a modern illustration, as the older deistic and the speculative pantheistic rationalism in Germany, or the practical and the speculative schools in Unitarianism.
    1. The common EBIONITES, who were by far the more numerous, embodied the Pharisaic legalism, and were the proper successors of the Judaizers opposed in the Epistle to the Galatians. Their doctrine may be reduced to the following propositions:
    (a) Jesus is, indeed, the promised Messiah, the son of David, and the supreme lawgiver, yet a mere man, like Moses and David, sprung by natural generation from Joseph and Mary. The sense of his Messianic calling first arose in him at his baptism by John, when a higher spirit joined itself to him. Hence, Origen compared this sect to the blind man in the Gospel, who called to the Lord, without seeing him: “Thou son of David, have mercy on me.”
    (b) Circumcision and the observance of the whole ritual law of Moses are necessary to salvation for all men.
    (c) Paul is an apostate and heretic, and all his epistles are to be discarded. The sect considered him a native heathen, who came over to Judaism in later life from impure motives.
    (d) Christ is soon to come again, to introduce the glorious millennial reign of the Messiah, with the earthly Jerusalem for its seat.
    2. The second class of Ebionites, starting with Essenic notions, gave their Judaism a speculative or theosophic stamp, like the errorists of the Epistle to the Colossians. They form the stepping-stone to Gnosticism. Among these belong the ELKESAITES.779 They arose, according to Epiphanius, in the reign of Trajan, in the regions around the Dead Sea, where the Essenes lived. Their name is derived from their supposed founder, Elxai or Elkasai, and is interpreted: “hidden power,” which (according to Gieseler’s suggestion) signifies the Holy Spirit.780 This seems to have been originally the title of a book, which pretended, like the book of Mormon, to be revealed by an angel, and was held in the highest esteem by the sect. This secret writing, according to the fragments in Origen, and in the “Philosophumena” of Hippolytus, contains the groundwork of the remarkable pseudo-Clementine system.781 (See next section.) It is evidently of Jewish origin, represents Jerusalem as the centre of the religious world, Christ as a creature and the Lord of angels and all other creatures, the Holy Spirit as a female, enjoins circumcision as well as baptism, rejects St. Paul, and justifies the denial of faith in time of persecution. It claims to date from the third year of Trajan (101). This and the requirement of circumcision would make it considerably older than the Clementine Homilies. A copy of that book was brought to Rome from Syria by a certain Alcibiades about A.D. 222, and excited attention by announcing a new method of forgiveness of sins.
    3. A similar sect are the MANDAEANS, from Manda, knowledge (gnw’si”)also SABIANS, i.e. Baptists (fromsâbi, to baptize, to wash), and MUGHTASILAH, which has the same meaning. On account of their great reverence for John the Baptist, they were called “Christians of John.”782 Their origin is uncertain. A remnant of them still exists, in Persia on the eastern banks of the Tigris. Their sacred language is an Aramaic dialect of some importance for comparative philology.783 At present they speak Arabic and Persian. Their system is very complicated with the prevalence of the heathen element, and comes nearest to Manichaeism.784

    § 114. The Pseudo-Clementine Ebionism.


    1. Ta; Klhmevntia, or more accurately Klhvmento” tw’n Pevtrou ejpidhmiw’n khrugmavtwn ejpitomhv first published (without the twentieth and part of the nineteenth homily) by Cotelier in “Patres Apost.” Par. 1672; Clericus in his editions of Cotelier, 1698, 1700, and 1724; again by Schwegler, Stuttg. 1847 (the text of Clericus); then first entire, with the missing portion, from a new codex in the Ottobonian Library in the Vatican, by Alb. R. M. Dressel (with the Latin trans. of Cotelier and notes), under the title:Clementis Romani quae feruntur Homiliae Viginti nunc primum integrae. Gott. 1853; and by Paul de Lagarde: Clementina Graece. Leipz. 1865.
    2. CLEMENTIS ROM. RECOGNITIONES ( jAnagnwrismoiv or JAnagnwvsei”), in ten books, extant only in the Latin translation of Rufinus (d. 410); first published in Basel, 1526; then better by Cotelier, Gallandi, and by Gersdorf in his “Bibl. Patr. Lat.” Lips. 1838. Vol. I. In Syriac, ed. by P. DE LAGARDE (Clementis Romani Recognitiones Syriace). Lips. 1861. An English translation of the Recognitions of Clement by Dr. Thomas Smith, in the “Ante-Nicene Christian Library,” Edinburgh, vol. III. (1868), pp. 137–471. The work in the MSS. bears different titles, the most common is Itinerarium St. Clementis.
    3. CLEMENTINE EPITOME DE GESTIS PETRI (Klhvm. ejpisk. JRwvmh” peri; tw’n pravxewn ejpidhmiw’n te kai; khrugmavtwn Pevtrou ejpitomhv), first at Paris, 1555; then critically edited by Cotelier, l.c.; and more completely with a second epitome by A. R. M. Dressel: Clementinorum Epitomae duae, with valuable critical annotations by Fr. Wieseler. Lips. 1859. The two Epitomes are only a summary of the Homilies.

    II. WORKS.

    NEANDER and BAUR, in their works on Gnosticism (vid. the following section), and in their Church Histories.
    SCHLIEMANN: Die Clementinen nebst den verwandten Schriften, u. der Ebionitismus. Hamb. 1844.
    AD. HILGENFELD: Die Clementinischen Recognitionem n. Homilien nach ihrem Ursprüng n. Inhalt. Jena, 1848. Art. by the same in the “Theol. Jahrbücher” for 1854 (483 sqq.), and 1868 (357 sqq.); and Die Apost. Väter. Halle 1853, p. 287–302.
    G. UHLHORN: Die Homilien n. Recognitionem des Clemens Romanus. Gött. 1854. Comp. the same author’s article “Clementinen,” in Herzog, second ed., vol. III. (1878), p. 277–286.
    RITSCHL: Die Entstehung der altkath. Kirche 1857 (second ed. p. 206–270).
    J. LEHMANN: Die Clementinischen Schriften mit besonderer Rücksicht auf ihr liter. Verhältniss. Gotha 1869. He mediates between Hilgenfeld and Uhlhorn. (See a review by Lipsius in the “Protest. Kirchenztg,” 1869, 477–482, and by Lagarde in his “Symmicta,” I. 1877, pp. 2–4 and 108–112, where Lehmann is charged with plagiarism).
    R. A. LIPSIUS: Die Quellen der römischen Petrus-Sage kritish untersucht. Kiel 1872. Lipsius finds the basis of the whole Clementine literature in the strongly anti-Pauline Acta Petri.
    A. B. LUTTERBECK: Die Clementinen und ihr Verh. z. Unfehlbarkeitsdogma. Giessen, 1872.

    The system of the pseudo-Clementine Homilies exhibits Ebionism at once in its theosophic perfection, and in its internal dissolution. It represents rather an individual opinion, than a sect, but holds probably some connection, not definitely ascertained, with the Elkesaites, who, as appears from the “Philosophumena,” branched out even to Rome. It is genuinely Ebionitic or Judaistic in its monotheistic basis, its concealed antagonism to Paul, and its assertion of the essential identity of Christianity and Judaism, while it expressly rejects the Gnostic fundamental doctrine of the demiurge. It cannot, therefore, properly be classed, as it is by Baur, among the Gnostic schools.
    The twenty Clementine Homilies bear the celebrated name of the Roman bishop Clement, mentioned in Phil. 4:3, as a helper of Paul, but evidently confounded in the pseudo-Clementine literature with Flavius Clement, kinsman of the Emperor Domitian. They really come from an unknown, philosophically educated author, probably a Jewish Christian, of the second half of the second century. They are a philosophico-religious romance, based on some historical traditions, which it is now impossible to separate from apocryphal accretions. The conception of Simon as a magician was furnished by the account in the eighth chapter of Acts, and his labors in Rome were mentioned by Justin Martyr. The book is prefaced by a letter of Peter to James, bishop of Jerusalem, in which he sends him his sermons, and begs him to keep them strictly secret; and by a letter of the pseudo-Clement to the same James in which he relates how Peter, shortly before his death, appointed him (Clement) his successor in Rome, and enjoined upon him to send to James a work composed at the instance of Peter, entitled “Clementis Epitome praedicationum Petri in peregrinationibus.”785 By these epistles it was evidently designed to impart to the pretended extract from the itinerant sermons and disputations of Peter, the highest apostolical authority, and at the same time to explain the long concealment of them.786
    The substance of the Homilies themselves is briefly this: Clement, an educated Roman, of the imperial family, not satisfied with heathenism, and thirsting for truth, goes to Judaea, having heard, under the reign of Tiberius, that Jesus had appeared there. In Caesarea he meets the apostle Peter, and being instructed and converted by him, accompanies him on his missionary journeys in Palestine, to Tyre, Tripolis, Laodicea, and Antioch. He attends upon the sermons of Peter and his long, repeated disputations with Simon Magus, and, at the request of the apostle, commits the substance of them to writing. Simon Peter is thus the proper hero of the romance, and appears throughout as the representative of pure, primitive Christianity, in opposition to Simon Magus, who is portrayed as a “man full of enmity,” and a “deceiver,” the author of all anti-Jewish heresies, especially of the Marcionite Gnosticism. The author was acquainted with the four canonical Gospels, and used them, Matthew most, John least; and with them another work of the same sort, probably of the Ebionitic stamp, but now unknown.787
    It has been ingeniously conjectured by Baur (first in 1831), and adopted by his pupils, that the pseudo-Clementine Peter combats, under the mask of the Magician, the apostle Paul (nowhere named in the Homilies), as the first and chief corrupter of Christianity.788 This conjecture, which falls in easily with Baur’s view of the wide-spread and irreconcilable antagonism of Petrinism and Paulinism in the primitive church, derives some support from several malicious allusions to Paul, especially the collision in Antioch. Simon Magus is charged with claiming that Christ appeared to him in a vision, and called him to be an apostle, and yet teaching a doctrine contrary to Christ, hating his apostles, and denouncing Peter, the firm rock and foundation of the church, as “self-condemned.”789 But this allusion is probably only an incidental sneer at Paul. The whole design of the Homilies, and the account given of the origin, history and doctrine of Simon, are inconsistent with such an identification of the heathen magician with the Christian apostle. Simon Magus is described in the Homilies790 as a Samaritan, who studied Greek in Alexandria, and denied the supremacy of God and the resurrection of the dead, substituted Mount Gerizim for Jerusalem, and declared himself the true Christ. He carried with him a companion or mistress, Helena, who descended from the highest heavens, and was the primitive essence and wisdom. If Paul had been intended, the writer would have effectually concealed and defeated his design by such and other traits, which find not the remotest parallel in the history and doctrine of Paul, but are directly opposed to the statements in his Epistles and in the Acts of the Apostles.
    In the Recognitions the anti-Pauline tendency is moderated, yet Paul’s labors are ignored, and Peter is made the apostle of the Gentiles.
    The doctrine which pseudo-Clement puts into the mouth of Peter, and very skillfully interweaves with his narrative, is a confused mixture of Ebionitic and Gnostic, ethical and metaphysical ideas and fancies. He sees in Christianity only the restoration of the pure primordial religion,791 which God revealed in the creation, but which, on account of the obscuring power of sin and the seductive influence of demons, must be from time to time renewed. The representatives of this religion are the pillars of the world: Adam, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses, and Christ. These are in reality only seven different incarnations of the same Adam or primal man, the true prophet of God, who was omniscient and infallible. What is recorded unfavorable to these holy men, the drunkenness of Noah, the polygamy of the patriarchs, the homicide of Moses, and especially the blasphemous history of the fall of Adam, as well as all unworthy anthropopathical passages concerning God, were foisted into the Old Testament by the devil and his demons. Thus, where Philo and Origen resorted to allegorical interpretation, to remove what seems offensive in Scripture, pseudo-Clement adopts the still more arbitrary hypothesis of diabolical interpolations. Among the true prophets of God, again, he gives Adam, Moses, and Christ peculiar eminence, and places Christ above all, though without raising him essentially above a prophet and lawgiver. The history of religion, therefore, is not one of progress, but only of return to the primitive revelation. Christianity and Mosaism are identical, and both coincide with the religion of Adam. Whether a man believe in Moses or in Christ, it is all the same, provided he blaspheme neither. But to know both, and find in both the same doctrine, is to be rich in God, to recognize the new as old, and the old as become new. Christianity is an advance only in its extension of the gospel to the Gentiles, and its consequent universal character.
    As the fundamental principle of this pure religion, our author lays down the doctrine of one God, the creator of the world. This is thoroughly Ebionitic, and directly opposed to the dualism of the demiurgic doctrine of the Gnostics. But then he makes the whole stream of created life flow forth from God in a long succession of sexual and ethical antitheses and syzygies, and return into him as its absolute rest; here plainly touching the pantheistic emanation-theory of Gnosticism. God himself one from the beginning, has divided everything into counterparts, into right and left, heaven and earth, day and night, light and darkness, life and death. The monad thus becomes the dyad. The better came first, the worse followed; but from man onward the order was reversed. Adam, created in the image of God, is the true prophet; his wife, Eve, represents false prophecy. They were followed, first, by wicked Cain, and then by righteous Abel. So Peter appeared after Simon Magus, as light after darkness, health after sickness. So, at the last, will antichrist precede the advent of Christ. And finally, the whole present order of things loses itself in the future; the pious pass into eternal life; the ungodly, since the soul becomes mortal by the corruption of the divine image, are annihilated after suffering a punishment, which is described as a purifying fire.792 When the author speaks of eternal punishment, he merely accommodates himself to the popular notion. The fulfilling of the law, in the Ebionitic sense, and knowledge, on a half-Gnostic principle, are the two parts of the way of salvation. The former includes frequent fasts, ablutions, abstinence from animal food, and voluntary poverty; while early marriage is enjoined, to prevent licentiousness. In declaring baptism to be absolutely necessary to the forgiveness of sin, the author approaches the catholic system. He likewise adopts the catholic principle involved, that salvation is to be found only in the external church.
    As regards ecclesiastical organization, he fully embraces the monarchical episcopal view. The bishop holds the place of Christ in the congregation, and has power to bind and loose. Under him stand the presbyters and deacons. But singularly, and again in true Ebionitic style, James, the brother of the Lord, bishop of Jerusalem, which is the centre of Christendom, is made the general vicar of Christ, the visible head of the whole church, the bishop of bishops. Hence even Peter must give him an account of his labors; and hence, too, according to the introductory epistles, the sermons of Peter and Clement’s abstract of them were sent to James for safe-keeping, with the statement, that Clement had been named by Peter as his successor at Rome.
    It is easy to see that this appeal to a pseudo-Petrine primitive Christianity was made by the author of the Homilies with a view to reconcile all the existing differences and divisions in Christendom. In this effort he, of course, did not succeed, but rather made way for the dissolution of the Ebionitic element still existing in the orthodox catholic church.
    Besides these Homilies, of which the Epitome is only a poor abridgement, there are several other works, some printed, some still unpublished, which are likewise forged upon Clement of Rome, and based upon the same historical material, with unimportant deviations, but are in great measure free, as to doctrine, from Judaistic and Gnostic ingredients, and come considerably nearer the line of orthodoxy.
    The most important of these are the Recognitions of Clement, in ten books, mentioned by Origen, but now extant only in a Latin translation by Rufinus. They take their name from the narrative, in the last books, of the reunion of the scattered members of the Clementine family, who all at last find themselves together in Christianity, and are baptized by Peter.
    On the question of priority between these two works, critics are divided, some making the Recognitions an orthodox, or at least more nearly orthodox, version of theHomilies;793 others regarding the Homilies as a heretical corruption of the Recognitions.794 But in all probability both works are based upon older and simpler Jewish-Christian documents, under the assumed names of Peter and Clement.795
    As to their birth-place, the Homilies probably originated in East Syria, the Recognitions in Rome. They are assigned to the second half of the second century.
    In a literary point of view, these productions are remarkable, as the first specimens of Christian romance, next to the “Pastor Hermae.” They far surpass, in matter, and especially in moral earnestness and tender feeling, the heathen romances of a Chariton and an Achilles Tatios, of the fourth or fifth centuries. The style, though somewhat tedious, is fascinating in its way, and betrays a real artist in its combination of the didactic and historical, the philosophic and the poetic elements.


    Lagarde (in the Preface to his edition of the Clementina, p. 22) and G. E. Stietz (in the lengthy review of Lagarde in the “Studien und Kritiken” for 1867, No. III p. 556 sqq), draw a parallel between the pseudo-Clementine fiction of Simon and the German story of Faust, the magician, and derive the latter from the former through the medium of theRecognitions, which were better known in the church than the homilies. George Sabellicus , about A.D. 1507, called himself Faustus junior, magus secundus. Clement’s father is called Faustus, and his two brothers, Fatistinus and Faustinianus (in the Recognitions Faustus, and Faustinus), were brought up with Simon the magician, and at first associated with him. The characters of Helena and Homunculus appear in both stories, though very differently. I doubt whether these resemblances are sufficient to establish a connection between the two otherwise widely divergent popular fictions.

    Does this sound like anyone we know?

    Lord’s Way Ministries
    Rev. G. L. Boyett

    • TMI

      can you give a concise summary of the above?

      Looks copied and pasted from somewhere….

      • Hystory of the Christian Church; vol.2; Ante-Nicene Chirstianity A.D. 100-325; by Schaff

        • Dear Rev garylordsway,

          “How can you say, ‘I am not defiled; I have not run after the PAULS'”?

          “The priests did not ask, ‘Where is the LORD?’
          Those who deal with the law did not know me; the leaders rebelled against me.
          The prophets prophesied by PAUL, following worthless idols.

          [Jeremiah 2:23, 2:8]

  97. Marianne, I admire your patience!!!

  98. Matthew, I believe you said earlier that Paul said love fulfilled the law and was not correct…
    Romans 13-8 through 10…
    Isn’t that precisely what Jesus said in Matthew 22-36 through 40…
    Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

    And now friend I think you better learn what it means about perdition…specially going backward into perdition…
    Hebrews 10-38, 39..Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul

  99. What Matthew is not smart enough to understand is that the ordinances of Moses were/are a CURSE….The 600 plus ordinances were hand written by Moses and these were primarily about punishments for disobeying the ten commandments… God allowed this because the Israelites had turned away from God..
    This is what is happening today as Daniel prophesied..
    Daniel 9-11..Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him. The word CURSE is spelled ALAH in Hebrew..
    Muslims teach these CURSED laws…Why do you speak against Paul but remain silent about Islam???
    Mohammed also said he was an APOSTLE…Koran 33-40…Why do you not rave and condemn Mohammed or are you too cowardly… ??
    Mohammed also said he was the holy ghost comforter of John 14-16…This is positively the unforgivable sin…Why do you remain silent about Mohammed and Islam.. Is it because they preach and enforce the cursed laws of Moses as you also do???
    While you help them when you slander and condemn the Bible
    You are no more Christian than was Judas.. You like Judas have lifted up your heel against Jesus…
    I almost forgot the jews had Jesus killed for their blasphemy law because He said he was Son of God…These are the laws you are upholding todays as do muslims…
    Were thse jews right????Evidently you think so…

    • seems like calling oneself the holy spirit would be blasphemy

      maybe this is why the muslims get so offended when their prophet is insulted.

      muhammed is equal to the HS

  100. I have no problem about Paul because I believe the Bible..God said His words will stand forever… He said we are born again of the word of god…It we are transformed by the word of god what kind of a monster god would allow a monster Paul to lead the people astray;…?
    Satan is working feverously to discredit the Bible to remove people from God’s words and from the body of Christ…Satan as promised in Scripture is removing the tares….so the righteous will shine forth…

  101. It is like the Lord said, scarcely will he elect be saved….Looks like the false christs have risen up and are leading the people backwards into perdition by badmouthing paul and upholding the old covenant which the Bible says leads to death..not only the many false christs that are butchering the Word of God but also the false prophets, aka both muslims and christians who are stealing the word of god out of mens hearts and minds with their lies…Jeremiah 23-30..

  102. The Woman at the Well,

    As in most of the discussions, the topic most always turns into the law vs grace, Jew vs Gentile, old vs new and so on. What was given by the Father in the beginning, with law and grace coexisting in perfect harmony, has become an either or mandate in Christian doctrine, predicated on the misunderstood word of one man, Paul. No one can provide another witness though they have tried. I offer the following as the ongoing scenario the Father has set in place to bring us full circle to the truth of what He is seeking to accomplish in us.

    We all know the story of the Samaritan woman at the well. How Messiah came by and asked the woman for a drink and ended up spending two days (2000 years) with the Samaritans=Ephraim= Gentile Christian Church, while the Jews were to be sent into exile in the nations for that same 2000 year period. Most of us know these things, so I am not going to go over it all again. But there is a complete picture that began in this story that runs through until the second coming of Messiah.

    John 4 21-24
    “21 Yeshua said, “Lady, believe me, the time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Yerushalayim. 22 You people don’t know what you are worshipping; we worship what we do know, because salvation comes from the Jews. 23 But the time is coming — indeed, it’s here now — when the true worshippers will worship the Father spiritually and truly, for these are the kind of people the Father wants worshipping him. 24 God is spirit; and worshippers must worship him spiritually and truly” (basically writing His Torah on our hearts).

    Messiah said this in part, knowing that the Jews and the Gentile believers would be scattered to the nations, while the gift of salvation and the giving of Ruach HaKodesh were given to the Gentiles, taking Yerushalayim (the Jews) basically out of the picture for 2 days (2000 years). John 4 basically tells of Messiah’s first coming as Yosef (son of Jacob-Israel, but living in the ways of Pagan Egypt-“hint”), the suffering servant, gathering to Himself a people that would be mingled with the nations and their pagan forms of worship (lawlessness), while the Jews were scattered among the nations in the diaspora, yet many staying set-apart- Kadosh-Holy, in the ways of Yah to this day, yet rejecting Messiah. But this is only half of the story.

    For at least 1700 years the assembly of Messiah has been, for the most part, instructed out of the Renewed Covenant scriptures (the New Testament to the Christian Church), basically undoing the foundation of the Torah, Prophets, and the writings that the B’rit Hadasha was based on, which allowed for the continuation of a divided kingdom initiated by Yah through Jereboam and Rheoboam.

    Now for the rest of the story; the completion to the parable of the Woman at the well which describes Messiahs Second Coming!

    Malachi 4:4-6 (the last verses in the Tanakh-the “transition verses, if you will, linking the Tanakh with the writings of the Renewed Covenant).

    (4:4) “Remember the Torah of Moshe my servant,
    which I enjoined on him at Horev,
    laws and rulings for all Isra’el.
    23 (4:5) Look, I will send to you
    Eliyahu the prophet
    before the coming of the great
    and terrible Day of ADONAI.
    24 (4:6) He will turn the hearts of the fathers to the children
    and the hearts of the children to their fathers;
    otherwise I will come and strike the land
    with complete destruction.”
    [Look, I will send to you
    Eliyahu the prophet
    before the coming of the great
    and terrible Day of ADONAI.]

    Luke 9:51-56
    Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)
    “51 As the time approached for him to be taken up into heaven, he made his decision to set out for Yerushalayim. 52 He sent messengers ahead of him, who went and entered a village in Samaria to make preparations for him”.

    Notice how at Messiah’s first coming that John the Baptist (Elijah if you will) was sent to prepare His way before Him. Now at His second coming Elijah is sent again to turn the hearts of the children (the Christian Church) to the fathers (Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob), the foundational principles (Torah) in scripture given in the beginning. We see this in the fact that Messiah was determined, set His face as stone, His way fixed, to “return” to Yerushalayim.

    “53 However, the people (the Samaritans) there would not let him stay, because his destination was Yerushalayim. 54 When the talmidim Ya‘akov and Yochanan saw this, they said, “Sir, do you want us to call down fire from heaven to destroy them?”[a] 55 But he turned and rebuked them.[b] 56 And they went on to another village.”

    This encounter took place after Messiah had spent 2 days-2000 years with the Samaritans. Even as Messiah “needed” to go through Samaria in John 4, in Luke 9 He made a “decision” to go to Yerushalayim (another rendering is-“He hardened or set his face to go to Yerushalayim”). This is speaking of Messiah’s second coming as King, gathering and reuniting Ephraim and Yahudah in eretz Ysrael.

    Messiah sent ahead His messengers (disciples-witnesses-Elijah) to the Samaritans (Ephraim-Christian Church) to prepare His (Messiah’s) way, but they (the Samaritans) rejected the Messiah’s messenger’s word because of His “need” to go to Yerushalayim instead of going to Mt Gerizim where the Samaritans worshipped. And so it is now. Notice how they (the Samaritans) took their anger out on the messengers, thus rejecting what Messiah was doing. The vast majority of the Christian Church (Ephraim) is still bound up in their paganism, rejecting the ways of Yah, sacrificing on pagan alters, yet doing it in the name of Messiah, which in their thinking makes all of this okay, although more and more are coming to the knowledge of what the Father is doing in these last days, to bring us back to Him and to His ways, both Yahuda (the Jews) and Ephraim (Samaritans-Christian Church).

    This is not given in a literal interpretation of these scriptures. The interpretation is given through the context of PaRDeS:
    The four levels of interpretation are called: Parshat, Remez, D’rash & Sud. The first letter of each word P-R-D-S is taken, and vowels are added for pronunciation, giving the word PARDES (meaning “garden” or “orchard”). Each layer is deeper and more intense than the last, like the layers of an onion.

    This is not about putting one group of people down and lifting up another. It is rather about getting some clarity on what is really going on here. All anyone can do is follow what Messiah has given them to do through the leading of Ruach HaKodesh and then leave it in His hands. It is not so much about “results” but it is about bringing up the difficult things that no one wants to hear, but is necessary.

    • Al,

      I really appreciate your writing here – “The Woman at the Well.”
      I am not familiar with PaRDeS.
      But what you’re saying here seems to make a lot of sense. even though it also seems over my head.

      It should be law AND grace, not one or the other.

      I really think that the hidden root of a lot of this confusion is the Second Century heretic Marcion. When he created his own “Bible”, naming it the “New Testament” (that replaced the “Old Testament”) and it contained nothing but 10 of Paul’s personal letters plus an abbreviated Gospel of Luke, Marcion set the stage for Gentile Christianity replacement theology. I would call it “Paulism.”

      Some of the statements I’ve seen from posts on this site reflect this “replacement theology” mindset, such as:
      .1) Christianity is Paul’s teaching
      .2) There is no Christianity without Paul
      .3) I seriously question whether anyone could be a saved if they reject Paul.
      .4) Paul died for us.
      .5) Paul had the “complete revelation.”

      This fundamental flaw of accepting Paul’s testimony or teaching alone, with no other witnesses, as “THE LAW” which overrides everyone and everything else, even Jesus, is like the air that Evangelicals breath. They are completely surrounded and filled with it, yet it’s invisible to them and they never think about it.

  103. Al,

    Excellent post.

    You wrote – “As in most of the discussions, the topic most always turns into the law vs grace, Jew vs Gentile, old vs new and so on. What was given by the Father in the beginning, with law and grace coexisting in perfect harmony, has become an either or mandate in Christian doctrine, predicated on the misunderstood word of one man, Paul.”

    My reply is a practical application of your thoughtfully post.

    There is a mega church nearby that is the largest, wealthiest, assembly of Christians in this region of the state. It’s reputation includes being a center of conservative, sound bible teaching with a very large we’ll educated, professional ministers and staff.

    Yet, the Senior Pastor stood up a few weeks ago, as he leads the men’s bible study (over 100 in attendance at 6am), showing us his first tattoo.

    Yes, he was proud to show us the meaning of the art inked into his skin. There is a Christian message now placed into this left forearm.

    Then, after he told us of his tattoo, he proceeded to show us a video clip on the subject of “religion” – letting the men under his teaching know that he was not under the law but grace, allowing him to tattoo his skin.

    “Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD” (Leviticus 19:28).

    He neglects to abide by the Torah, obeying the commandments. Oh sure, he is saved by grace not by works – but God’s word is forever. This is a classic example a mis-interpretation of Paul’s writing. Paul is not wrong. But as Peter writes –

    “…be diligent to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace. And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen” (2 Peter 3:14-18).

    I could write out (mostly cut/paste) what the attached link explain – the problem of his Christian tattoo, which he proudly displayed on his left forearm.

    Here is a short cut/paste to make the point.

    “In fact, in Leviticus chapter 19 verse 28, where the Lord clearly condemns the tattoo, ‘Ye shall not make any . . . print any marks upon you.’

    Notice what else is included in the same verse. . . Obviously, by the context, the Lord connects the forbidden ‘marks’ or tattoo, – ‘Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh. . .’ Beware – the tattoo procedure is a fashion of the satanic practice of blood-letting or cutting of ones flesh. Rubbing a little ink or pigment in it doesn’t change the fact – you are cutting your flesh – you are practicing blood-letting.

    By far, the most extensive work ever published on tattoos was Dr. W.D. Hambly’s, The History of Tattooing And It’s Significance. Author Steve Gilbert, in his popular Tattoo History: A Source Book, writes, “Hambly concluded that historically tattooing had originated in connection with ancient rites of scarification and bloodletting. . .”

    “Hambly concluded that historically tattooing had originated in connection with ancient rites of scarification and bloodletting which were associated with religious practices intended to put the human soul in harmony with supernatural forces and ensure continuity between this life and the next” (Gilbert, Steve, Tattoo History: A Source Book, p. 158).

    The above was copied from –

    This is additional reference material for the same author.

    This is not my church and I am not a member, but visit the bible study as another way to hear false teaching regularly, read the Word and fellowship with nice men. Psalms 1 and 119 are very previous passages to me.

    An opportunity was presented this week to address the tattoo issue and I plan to express my opinion on the matter to the 12+ men that within a small group of this large men’s bible study.

    Psalm 1

    • DJ,
      I never thought I would quote Bill Clinton, but in this case it seems appropriate.

      “I feel your pain.”

      A “Christian” mega-church pastor boasting about getting “his first tattoo”. Of all the silly nonsense. Although I’ve written about this at some length in the past, all that comes to mind now are the words from Psalms of David.

      “The wicked freely strut about when what is vile is honored among men.”
      [Psalm 12:8]

      But, check this out:
      Psalm 27 Adonai Ori Christine Jackman

    • Hey DJ,

      Let me know how things go with your small group regarding the tattoo issue. The tattoo issue in 2013 probably seems a mute issue, given the pop culture of tattooing and how widely accepted it is now in almost every circle of influence. But the bottom line is, did Yah really mean what He said from the beginning?! Everyone will be responsible for how they answer that question. Why does the Christian Church, at least for the most part, have literally no respect for the Torah, yet the Jews are willing to die rather than break the laws that are written therein? The Christians have the realization of the Torah through Messiah and still can’t see it. The Jews, without Messiah, lay it all on the line where the law is concerned, though not all. Did the Father know it would be this way? Without a doubt!!!

      I have a true story for you that a rabbi conveyed. During World War II in Nazi Germany, close to 2000 years after being exiled from Yisrael, a certain Jewish man (name unknown) was facing the certainty of the gas chamber. He confided in one of his fellow prisoners that he was afraid and didn’t want to die, but for HaShem he would if necessary. But he felt guilty because he was thinking about ways to prolong his life, even if only by seconds. He felt that if he hugged the ground with mouth close to the floor and took short shallow breaths that he could last longer. When the time came to enter the gas chamber, he inevitably stood there and said for you HaShem, I give my life and breathed deep. I can’t remember every little caveat in the story, but this is close. Without having accepted Messiah, this was his response to Torah after 2000 years of being persecuted by the Muslims, the Christians, and basically everyone else. Meanwhile a large part of the Christian Church has rejected the Word of Yah to the extent that being “culturally relevant” is more to be sought after than obedience to His Word. This is the epitome of “LAWLESSNESS”.

      It is not for nothing, that it is written that a little leaven, leavens the whole lump; or that it is the small foxes that spoil the ” vines”. After all, “IT IS JUST A TATOO! WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL. I AM NOT UNDER THE LAW. I AM SAVED BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS. WHAT I DO DOESN’T MATTER. THAT IS THE “OLD TESTAMENT”, I AM A NEW CREATION. IT DOESN’T MATTER WHAT I DO AS LONG AS I BELIEVE I AM SAVED BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS!!!


  104. Matthew Jesus is not the torah made flesh…Read John 1-1 In the beginning (the beginning is Genesis 1-1. )…In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
    The old covenant ordinances were hand written by Moses including the feast days….These ordinnces lead to death,, If they could have led to life there would have been no need of Jesus, and new covenant…Do you not understand what going BACKWARD means..???Hagar saw the back side of god .See Gal 4-24,25..Means old covenant… Going backward into perdition means going backward into old covenant…
    You are carving your niche in hell with your lies..

    • Ruth,

      I have tried to refrain from engaging you in any kind of discussion. What you write is the classic example of “mixing” paganism with the Word of Yah. You unwittingly seek to destroy the Father’s Word, by actually denying His Word, while exalting your convoluted understanding of the Renewed Covenant. If you could only see what you are doing. My prayer is that the Father be merciful to you and open your eyes to what you are doing and saying, for of a truth, you are not advancing His cause. YOU are part of the problem!

      • So Al, do you not engage in anly kind of discussion with me beause you cannot fool me????
        As for the word, Jesus is the word of God…He is that spirit that indwelled the prophets and wrote through them.. He as the Scriptures say is GOD…He became flesh to show us the way back to God..
        You do not know Him….
        PROVE ME WRONG.. You cannot do it…Everything I say is in the Scriptures…
        You Al are going backward to perdition… You and Matthew are part of the great falling away from Christ of 2 Thessalonians 2…You are not Son’s of God but sons of perdition..
        You and Matthew and others like you and muslims are trying to make void the real Christianity….You deny Paul who exposes all your lies and you ,,,well let me post it and if you don’t like it label Paul a liar or God a fraud..

        You are trying to lead people into BONDAGE..Galatians 2..4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into BONDAGE:

        Galatians 4..24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to BONDAGE, which is Agar.(Agar means Hagar)
        Jesus and Steven and more were killed because of old covenant practices and ordinances… Were their killers correct in murdering them..???

  105. Al,

    The following was sent to about 12 men who attend the men’s bible study (they are members of this non-denominational but apply Baptist doctrine). We are also reading a chapter a day through an on-line e-mail notification program.

    Their Senior Pastor received his tattoo about 5 weeks ago.

    Then, this past week – some one responded to the daily reading (1st Peter 4:1-4) with a comment saying they were “not doing what pagans do” but interested in doing the will of God.

    Yet, not one of these men had the stones to stand up and speak truth when the leader of their church actually does what pagans do and God forbids His children to do.

    Al, for your reading – here is what I sent this group. I do not expect a reply because they seem to be bewitched by a spirit of religion and false teaching. This is not the only example of false teaching – there are many. God is going to start at His house and these folks think they are in good standing. The evangelical church is in for a shock every soon.

    Here is my message –

    I want to comment on this phrase (“not doing what the pagans do”), and the scripture before us from Peter.

    Paganism entered into mainstream society, becoming acceptable practice and is taught as acceptable under “grace”.

    Pagan practices, which God commanded that His children not practice, are found in Leviticus.

    Yes, this is from “the law”. If we are taught that Christians not under the law but under grace – then Christians are not under any commandments (law) and are free, which is without law or law-less. We pick or choose the pagan practice that fits our situation or choose one that is more comfortable and do it with good intent.

    “Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD” (Leviticus 19:28).

    This passage from Leviticus, in context, includes forbidden pagan practices and keeping the Sabbath, reverencing His sanctuary:

    “You shall not eat any flesh with the blood in it. You shall not interpret omens or tell fortunes.

    You shall not round off the hair on your temples or mar the edges of your beard [pagan hair cut like the we see on Mayan Indian artifacts, Indonesian tribes and performed in other accent pagan cultures].

    You shall not make any cuts on your body for the dead or tattoo yourselves: I am the Lord.

    Do not profane your daughter by making her a prostitute, lest the land fall into prostitution and the land become full of depravity.

    You shall keep my Sabbaths and reverence my sanctuary: I am the Lord.

    Do not turn to mediums or necromancers; do not seek them out, and so make yourselves unclean by them: I am the Lord your God” Leviticus 19:26-31, ESV).

    Author Steve Gilbert, in his popular Tattoo History: A Source Book, writes, “Hambly concluded that historically tattooing had originated in connection with ancient rites of scarification and bloodletting. . .” He concluded that historically tattooing had originated in connection with ancient rites of scarification and bloodletting which were associated with religious practices intended to put the human soul in harmony with supernatural forces and ensure continuity between this life and the next”(Gilbert, Steve, Tattoo History: A Source Book, p. 158).

    “Since body art is still not mainstream, having marks on your body that you put there on purpose shows the world your rebellious and unconventional nature” (Jean-Chris Miller, The Body Art Book : A Complete, Illustrated Guide to Tattoos, Piercings, and Other Body Modifications, p. 32).

    “In this culture, a tattooed person is still looked at as a rebel, as someone who has very visibly stepped out of the bounds of normal society, . . .” (Michelle Delio, Tattoo: The Exotic Art of Skin Decoration, p. 75).

    “The Latin word for ‘tattoo’ was stigma and the original meaning is reflected in modern dictionaries. Among the definitions of ‘stigma’ listed by Webster are a ‘prick with a pointed instrument,’ . . .’ a distinguishing mark cut into the flesh of a slave or a criminal,’ and ‘a mark of disgrace or reproach” (Gilbert, Steve, Tattoo History: A Source Book, p. 15).

    The above copied from Terry Walkins.

    Notice that the above quotations are from secular sources and not ministry leaders or theologians. These quotations tell us the truth about this pagan practice. It is rebellion against God and His law.

    The argument to violate some of God’s commandments (Leviticus 19), is found in the writing of Mark Driscoll, Mars Hill Church, and his sermon: “The Weaker Christian from 1 Corinthians 8:1-13: 28”.

    Abstract from sermon:

    “Additionally it’s talking about priest marking their body thereby indentifying themselves with paganism, so I don’t think it really applies. You can disagree with me that’s fine… Let me just say our position is this—tattoos are not a sin, right.

    Jesus Christ is going to have a tattoo—Revelation says on his second coming. It says that down his right leg will be written King of Kings and Lord of Lords, which will be really freakish for all for the fundamentalists to see Jesus all tattooed up.”

    Okay, Pastor Mark. In Hebrews 7, we read that Jesus is our High Priest. As Priest, our Lord (who obeyed the laws of Almighty God and is the Word made flesh), does not and will not have a tattoo. He will not be “tattooed up”.

    This is more than a disagreement with Pastor Mark and those who teach such tattoo lessons – The Scriptures calls this false teaching. God help them.

    If I had a daughter, I guess I should not sell my her into prostitution (pagan).

    I should not visit a palm reader (pagan).

    But, the pagan practice of getting a tattoo or cutting in/on my flesh is under the old covenant (law) and I’m covered by “grace” (seems to be Pastor Mark’s and other such Bible teachers’ message) so this is acceptable to God, thank you Lord.

    It really makes no difference – because all of Leviticus 19 is under the law, and I am free (“error of lawless”) to do any of these because I am acceptable to God under “grace”.

    We’ll read this passage from Peter in a few days, but it applies to this topic.

    “…be diligent to be found by him without spot or blemish, and at peace. And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters.

    There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.

    You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people [neglect the teachings/application of the law], and lose your own stability.

    But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen” (2 Peter 3:14-18).

    Your replies and comments to the above are welcome. Please, share with me if you think there is any error or twisting of Scripture in what I posted above.

    Al, there are false teachers in pulpits today that do their best at applying Psalm 64:5. Please read Psalm 64.

    Tattoos are portals, sign posts welcoming demonic attack – the demonic spirits of rebellion, anger will manifest in the flesh of a Christian. How many sheep will now get a tattoo because Pastor got one – it must be okay, right?

    Psalm 119

    • Dear DJ – cc Al

      So a “Mars Hill” pastor is teaching from Paul’s personal letters to the Church in Corinth, treating Paul’s words like they are “The Word of God” and “God’s Commandments,” and you disagree with his interpretation of Paul’s words?

      That is really a lot like going to the “Holy Mecca” mosque where a Muslim imam is teaching from Muhammad’s words in the Koran, and telling him you disagree with his interpretation of Muhammad’s words.

      You are in the wrong ballpark, playing the wrong game.
      You are riding the merry-go-round of Paul the Pharisee.

      “Mars Hill” is the King James Version’s name for the “Areopagus” in Athens. Luke described Paul’s experience there in Acts 17. After the noble Bereans kicked Paul off his own mission team, personally escorted Paul hundreds of miles away, and left Paul in Athens alone, Paul became an idle babbler in the marketplace in Athens. Then Paul was asked to come, alone, to “Mars Hill” to talk about his ideas.

      Luke records Paul’s speech on Mars Hill, where Paul never mentioned the name of Jesus once. Before you object and say: “Paul MUST have mentioned the name of Jesus on Mars Hill”, please open your Bible and look for yourself. It isn’t there. This is a statement of fact about the text.

      After Paul’s speech on Mars Hill, a few people became followers OF PAUL. There is no evidence that anyone became a follower of Jesus. It isn’t in the text. That’s a fact, so please don’t argue about it, just open your Bible and see for yourself in Acts 17. Saying that someone “believed” does not mean they believed in the Lord Jesus and were born again. People “believe” all kind of things, and all kinds of people.

      Is it “possible” that some of the people from Mars Hill actually became followers of Jesus due to Paul’s speech there? Yes, it’s “possible” but it is pure speculation, reading something into the text that simply isn’t there. Luke recorded no conversions, no baptisms, not churches started, no fruit.

      After Paul gained a few followers for himself like the other Athenian philosophers did, he promptly abandoned them and left Athens. As far as we know from the New Testament text, Paul never went back, and never even directly mentioned his “Mars Hill” experience.

      Indirectly, we can see in Paul’s first letter to the Corinthians chapters 1 & 2 that Paul acknowledged that his solo “ministry” in Athens was “an unmitigated disaster” (in the words of Jon Courson, pastor of Applegate church in Medford Oregon, and a prominent leader in the Calvary Chapel Movement.)

      So apparently Paul learned from his mistake in Athens, but since it was such a compete failure Paul was never willing to talk about it directly. Paul was very human- who likes to write about his own dismal failures? I don’t either. So I don’t blame Paul for never bringing up his “Mars Hill” experience.

      But I am thankful to Luke for recording Paul’s experience of failure in ministry because, in the words of Jon Courson, “experience is the best teacher- but it doesn’t have to be your own experience.”

  106. Hey Matthew,

    I will go down through your comments and give what I believe to be true in these things.

    I understand what you are saying with regards to not finding those who are like-minded. But, there is a reason for that:

    Micah 7:1
    New International Version (NIV)
    7 What misery is mine! I am like one who gathers summer fruit at the gleaning of the vineyard;
    there is no cluster of grapes to eat, none of the early figs that I crave.

    Yah is speaking of that which comes at the beginning, and is ahead of its time. Seemingly out of place and alone, with few others around. To the Father’s taste, this is the most succulent and greatly desired to the extent He uses the word “crave”, for the one that stands alone before the appointed time arrives. So, take heart, there is more going on than what the natural mind can conceive!

    Concerning John 20:19 & 26:

    These are verses that “seemingly” prove that the Church uses to prove that Sunday worship replaced the Shabbat, but in reality is anything but that. In the original Greek text, in John 20:1 the words “first” and “day” do not appear in the text. What is written is (in Greek) “Mia ton sabbaton” which is translated “on one of the weekly Shabbats at about sundown”. Another way to write it, from more of a Greek perspective is “On the first of the week, in the morning when it was dark.” What we see in this verse is that Miryam came to the tomb, after the Shabbat, while it was still dark, basically on Sunday morning, in the dark. That is when the empty tomb was “discovered”. This does not answer the question of when Messiah was resurrected, since the Shabbat ended on sundown of the 7th day. But even with all of that, what is the difference if He was resurrected at the end of the 7th day or the beginning of the 1st day?

    John 20:19- “Now when it was evening on that day, the first of the week, the doors were shut where the disciples were, because of the disciples’ fear of the Yehudeans, Y’shua came and stood among them……..”.

    The question is why were they locked away on this day? They were hiding in fear from the Jews. That is all we know. There is no talk or conversation about overturning the Shabbat for Sunday worship. In fact, not only does it not say anything about worship, it bears down on the fact that they were totally afraid. When did Messiah come to them? In the evening (Erev) of the first day (Sunday) and the beginning of the second day (Monday).

    John 20:26-“And after eight days the disciples were again inside. And Tooma (Thomas) was with them and Y’shua came while the doors were locked and said to them…..”.

    Again, on the first day of the week, Sunday, they were together again, and again it says “the doors were locked”. What is that saying? They were still in fear of the Jews. Again there is no record of worship or celebration as to a new or different feast day. The assumption among the Jews was that the body had been carried off, not resurrected, with the disciples probably being the ones responsible. The first day of the week (Sunday) was when the body of Messiah was reported missing from the tomb. Could this be why the disciples were locked away in fear on that day? Just a question. These men hadn’t been through Shavuot (Pentecost) yet. They were anything but fearless at this point. But this is the problem: an ambiguous statement taken so far out of context, to the degree of overturning the 7th day rest given by Yah in Genesis, for worship on Sun-day (the day of pagan Sun God worship). The enemy has done his work well. But I do believe it was all part of the Master’s plan from the beginning.

    Revelation 1:10-“I was in the Spirit on the day of our Master YHWH….”. The Aramaic reads “b’yoma’MaranaYah” or “day of our Master YHWH”. There were additions to the Greek text later that implied a Sunday rendering to this scripture. But in the original Greek, no specific day was given. What it does refer to is Yah’s day of judgment, which is marked by the blowing of the Shofar. Intentional or not, bad translating!

    I Corinthians 16:1-2
    1. And as to the collection for the Set Apart believers, as I directed the assemblies of the Galatians, so do you.
    2.On each first day of the week, let everyone of you lay aside and preserve at home what he is able; that there be no collections when I come.

    “On each first day of the week” is one way of saying this, but it infers a knowledge of what is actually being said. In Greek the phrase is: “kata mia sabbaton”, which literally means “after one of the Shabbats” prepare the collection. For what reason? So there would be no preparations (collections) made on the Shabbat. It was to be prepared ahead of time, that no work be done on Shabbat, upholding the 7th day.

    Some of this might sound like splitting hairs, but when it comes to overturning the Word of Yah, innuendo, misinterpretation, bad translations, having an agenda, ambiguity and so on should be a reason to be more precise. As was said before, if someone wants to worship on the first day of the week, that is great. But accepting the 1st day while rejecting the 7th day……Messiah will work that out with all of us when we stand before Him at the judgment seat of Messiah! Not the best of times and places to be figuring this out. Beforehand is much better!!!

    I will get back with you on Kashrut, the dietary laws you asked about.


    • Al..
      Mark 2-24..And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the Sabbath day that which is not lawful?
      Mark 2-27.And he said unto them, .The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath:
      This means God in His mercy and understanding gave man a day to rest and be refreshed both spiritually and physically..

      The pharisees that confronted Jesus were of those that murdered Jesus…Murdered because he said He is Son of God and the pharisees said he blasphemed…

      Jesus warned in end time prophecy that the battle would be of those that discredit his words…
      Matthew 24-35, Mark 13-31, Luke 21-33..Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

    • “AL”, (that your real name “AL”?Just wondering)

      Every day is the sabbath for the TRUE believer in Christ Jesus. I have shabat with Him every day because it is my desire to do so.

      It’s not about which specific “day” it is to rest and have fellowship with Jesus. Jesus made a way to have fellowship EVERYDAY with Him because of what He did by dieing on the cross.Every day a true believer can have boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, by the sacrifice of His flesh as the final sin offering for mankind.

      It’s a done deal and He made a way for us. It’s not about which day is more “sacred”. EVERY day is holy unto the Lord.

      Do you fellowship everyday with Jesus thru the Spirit Al? You can you know. It doesn’t have to be just one day set aside for Him.

      It’s called “grace” which is imputed to the true believer by Christ, that the righteous Apostle Paul told us about in His letter of Ephesians.

      “For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast. ” (Ephesians 2: 8-9)

      Jesus himself is our peace, who has made the two groups ( the circumcised and the uncircumcised) one group and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility,
      by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.

      One NEW man! Cool isn’t it?

      We are now not under the law but under grace, and we obey the law in our hearts out of love and obedience for what He did for us.

      Very simple to understand when you KNOW the one who purchased His life for you so that you could partake of His. He gave it to us as a gift.

      Why don’t you reach out and except this most precious gift?


      • Dear Mr. “Beast”, ( Is that your real name, Mr. “Beast”? Or do you go by your first name, “Watch”? )

        The view you expressed here in quite common in the Evangelical church- that every day is a now Sabbath. But that does not mean this it is correct.

        I spent time in a “Bible church” and I remember one of the staff pastors saying something like what you said. He told me that he didn’t have any regular day off- but if he felt like playing golf once in a while he would just take a day off here and there. He mostly did hospital visitation and marriage counseling at the church.

        A few years later his wife divorced him.

        Do you think it’s wrong to try, (not legalistically but within reason,) to set aside one day a week to spend with the one you love because you WANT to not because you have to?

        Jesus said:
        “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.”
        [Mark 2:27]

        • There is nothing wrong with setting aside one day to honor God in their heart, if that is what someone wants to do, but every day is a sabbath rest for a child of God.

          But it does not HAVE to be JUST a “Sat” or a “Sun” etc. etc.

          When you start saying a certain day MUST be set aside as your sabbath, because you say that is what God commands, THAT is where you come under legalism and have not the Spirit.

          Every day IS a sabbath rest for the child of God who is not under the law but is under grace.

      • dear watch

        Al is a devout christian, a messianic jew. He is already saved.

        it is inappropriate to question his salvation …just because he chooses to obey God out of love.

        remember, you will be judged in the same way you judge others…

        • Marianne, in your words you addressed to Matthew Perri:

          “I think you need to spend more time uplifting jesus than demonizing paul.”

          EVERY post Matthew Parri makes on this forum is about demonizing Paul.

          I wonder why that is? You noted that yourself.

          I asked him if he is “born again” of the Spirit of the Living God, and I asked why he hates Paul so much.

          Very legitimate questions to ask when ALL someone DOES is bash Paul in his comments over and over again in multiple threads and try to convince the forum why Paul is a false apostle.

          I’d call that having an agenda.

          But I’d really like to know WHY he has such hatred for Apostle Paul?

          My questions remain and it’s very telling that he has not answered them.

          • beats me……

            I just know that after a while, one is jut beating a dead horse, so to speak to continue a debate, when it is going no where.

            I understand a little some of the objections he has, but as I said, there are conversations he had in person that could explain these written scriptures.

            • Marianne,

              I carefully prerused EVERY one of Matthew Perri’s comments on just this particular thread.

              EVERY one of his comments is about how bad he seems to think Paul is. That’s all he has to say.

              He won’t even address a simple question on “grace”.

              My questions still stand to him. I am waiting Matthew. What say you?

              I will caution readers here and say BUYER BEWARE to what Matthew Perri is “selling” because he does have an ulterior motive and if one starts denying the spiritual importance of Paul’s letters, one will find themselves on a very slippery slope to hell where Matthew will end up if he does not repent of his heretical ways.

    • Hi Al,

      Thanks for such a detailed response about the Sabbath – you make a good case.

      I am not saying that “Sunday worship replaced the Shabbat.” I am not saying that it’s wrong to celebrate a Sabbath in the Jewish way, Friday night or SaturDAY. Neither am I saying that there is no Sabbath any more because we are with God every day.

      I do believe it is God’s will for us, for our own good and blessing, to have one day a week to rest and spend with Him. It is clear to me that God designed us that way. That makes for a healthy relationship. What God desires from us first is friendship, and you can’t have real friendship without choosing to spend quality time together on a regular basis.

      The love of God, flowing from Him and back to Him, and a walk of obedience to His laws that He gave us for our own good, are what God wants. Love for other people will flow naturally from the love of God overflowing out of us.

      I think we would agree that the most important thing about a weekly Sabbath is that we HAVE ONE. Not which day it is.

      The 10 Commandments were given to the Jews as a wandering nation, and then in the Promised Land, as a Jewish theocracy or separated community.

      But now that Jesus has opened the Gospel for all nations, which are mostly filled with pagans and pagan governments, I think we may need to apply the Sabbath principle in creative ways on a weekly basis, rather than insisting that it MUST be on Friday night / Saturday (even though that is the best.)

      That is my current thinking on the Sabbath.

      • Hey Matthew,

        Before I go any further with this, I want to ask a question. Do you have scripture to back up what you have concluded concerning the 7th day Shabbat or does it just “seem” like it should be that way, rationally thinking. Or is it a specific creed you are following? For example, Eastern Orthodox Christianity.

        Also, since you brought up verses regarding Kashrut, is your position the same on that? If so, that is fine. I will just restructure my response to save some time.

        • Hi Al,

          I appreciate your thought process- I think we are a lot alike, and our views are really very close. And as you see, I am not saying that you are “wrong” about either the Sabbath or the Food Laws.

          I think it’s a question of priorities, and not everything is top priority. We need the spirit of the law, firmly grounded in the letter of the law. I think that the great LACK of New Testament texts regarding Sabbath meetings specifically for followers of Jesus / Yahshua should cause us to pause.

          Regarding specific Shabbat meetings described in the New Testament after Jesus rose from the dead, they mostly seem to be gatherings of Jews meeting as usual, where maybe some knew Jesus, but most did not. They also are mostly connected with Paul and his ministry… I have not thought through the relevance of Paul’s involvement here, or the circumstances of all these Shabbat meetings.

          While it would be an argument from silence to say Shabbat was abolished, it would likewise be an argument from silence to assume that the Jewish Shabbat is the only correct time to celebrate a weekly Sabbath. The Westminster Confession is not my “Bible”, but it does refer to Sunday as a “Christian Sabbath”, so this isn’t some brand new idea I am introducing.

          To quote “The Evangelical Dictionary of Theology edited by Walter A. Elwell on the subject “Lord’s Day”;
          “When the NT writers designated the various days on which the resurrected Christ appeared and spoke to his disciples, it was uniformly a Sunday.”

          .1) “After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week…” [Matthew 28:1-10]
          .2) Luke 24:1-49
          .3) John 20:19-25
          .4) John 20:26-29
          Also “The coming of the Holy Spirit (Acts 2) occurred on Pentecost, a Sunday.”

          Al, this is an astounding statistic- that after the resurrection, when the NT writers record Jesus appearing personally, if they specifically mention a day of the week, it was ALWAYS on “The first day of the week”- the “Lord’s Day,” and never on Shabbat. That doesn’t mean that Jesus only appeared on the Lord’s Day, or that he never appeared on Shabbat- but it’s still important to consider.

          If Jesus is the Word made flesh, I want to meet him personally on the Sabbath, not just hear about Him in the letter of the law. Also, although in English we call it “Sunday” after the Sun God, in Romance languages such as Spanish it’s “Domingo” – Lord’s Day.

          By the way, here is another passage, written by Luke in [Acts 20:7]
          “On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people…”

          The presence of a few passing references in the New Testament text to meetings on the first day of the week, and John’s reference to the “Lord’s Day” that I already mentioned to you, indicate to me that the “spirit of the law” is that people have a weekly Sabbath to spend time with God. And that is more important than which day it is.

          So I could make a case for either “Shabbat” or “The Lord’s Day”, Friday night/SaturDAY or Sunday, based on the text of the Bible. But for some people in some places, especially in our 24/7/365 kind of culture, neither of these 2 days may be possible for a Sabbath during some seasons. So for them, the application should be that they should not just give up on trying to devote one day a week to spend with the One they love the most. They should try to set aside another day, at least for a season.

          To quote a voice from my youth, the “Cheap Trick live at Budokan” album, Yahweh our Heavenly Father cries out to us in the voice of His Son Jesus:
          “I want you to want…ME !”

        • Hi Again Al,

          Regarding the Sabbath:
          This morning God showed me something from the Torah, which is directly related to our discussion. [Exodus 31:12-18]

          If you read this passage, in more than one place, God seems to be leaving the door open for a fuller, more expanded concept of “Sabbath” whose fulfillment would be in the future, without denying, abolishing, or severing the Jews or the Jewish Shabbat.

          One of these key verses is:
          “The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant.”
          [Exodus 31:16]

          It doesn’t say “all people” “for all generations” as an “everlasting covenant.”

          The next verse says “It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever.”
          [Exodus 31:17]

          There is a subtle distinction in the wording present in verse 16 vs. verse 17, kind of veiled under the surface. (“to come” and “lasting” vs. “forever.”) I can’t tell you what is in the original Hebrew, or how this compares with all other references to the Sabbath in the Scripture. But it seems kind of like a hint of God’s plan for the future.

          Not abolishing or changing the Sabbath day for the Jews, but l fulfilling the law so the Jews can observe the spirit of the law on Shabbat.

          But also, for the Gentiles, opening up the principle of a weekly day of Sabbath to them, primarily on “The Lord’s Day”, the first day of the week, to rest from normal work in order to spend time with God- because they WANT to. Because their first love is Yahweh the LORD God of Israel and His Son Yahshua, the Lord God Jesus the Christ, the Jewish Messiah, who is the Savior of the whole world.

          In terms of practical application, I think churches should try to have BOTH Shabbat services geared more toward Jews, AND Lord’s Day services geared more toward Gentiles.

          Possibly other days if needed. For example, my father-in-law in Japan had some people who always worked on Sundays, so he has been holding both a normal Sunday morning service, but also a Friday morning service, (so these other people can have a kind of “Sabbath” on Friday rather then never attending church.)

  107. This was said concerning the last hour and that Jesus made these last equal to the first… These last

    22-12, 13, 14…And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. For many are called, but FEW ARE CHOSEN….
    Matthew 20-So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few CHOSEN…
    Does this mean the Jews who were first shall be last and the Christians who were last shall be first, but Only the chosen ones, not the tares……

  108. Please answer my legitimate questions Matthew that I have asked you now 4 times.

    And please stop posting in EVERY single post how bad you think Apostle Paul is. Is that ALL you can say on here? Your arguments are silly, heretical and ineffective and you just make yourself look more foolish with your ridiculous unsupported arguments.True saints see thru your ridiculous assertions.

    Thank you.

    • It is becoming increasingly obvious why “watchthebeast” is here:
      to STEAL our time, energy, and peace,
      to KILL our reputations, and
      to DESTROY our conversations and sense of community.

      Harassing us making lots of posts with false accusations, diversions, silly questions and nonsense, ignoring what we really said, misquoting us to confuse other people, refusing to admit when he is wrong on some clear facts that I literally put in front of him, dodging the issue, and then demanding that we “respond to his questions.”

      • matthew,

        you are becoming a harassment to others yourself.

        please act christ like and others will follow

        I really do not remember who started this, but i want it to stop.

        strife is a sin

        • Marianne, after meditating upon this a bit through the Holy Spirit,
          I know there is a reason the Most High God in me is SO offended by the false despicable teaching of Matthew Perri, and that is because he is offering up an abomination of falsehood and perversion to the Lord that God does not accept.

          He is like Cain. God does not accept His evil offering, his perverted teaching which is trying to take away from the truth that Apostle Paul, chosen by God, imperfect tho he was, as we all are, gave to humanity under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit for our EDIFICATION.

          When you touch God’s chosen vessel, such as Apostle Paul, you are touching Him! Father God is offended at that! And Matthew is doing HARM to the body of Christ.

          That REALLY offends our Father!

          I cannot say it any plainer.

          Paul’s teaching was FOR the Lord’s called out chosen ones for their blessing and edification!

          The Lord God does not HONOR NOR ACCEPT what Matthew Perri is teaching.

          To our Lord Jesus, it is evil, what he is putting forth is perverted, it is abominable and disgraceful, and it is a stench in our Most Holy Father’s nostrils….this is a THUS SAYTH THE LORD so hear me now.

          The Lord Most High called Apostle Paul and CHOSE Him as His vessel. And Matthew, like an evil, viper- Matthew Perri, by denigrating Paul’s blessed teaching given through the Holy Spirit, is in fact trying to get you and everyone to DOUBT the Most High God.

          And Father God does not like that one bit!

          What Matthew is doing is thumbing his nose at God, since God chose Paul. And Matthew wants everyone to agree with him about God’s chosen vessel. So he tries to create doubt in God’s most holy word, given through Paul as well as the other apostles, which is His gift to us FOR OUR GOOD!

          He will say that he knows Jesus…..but by his actions and fruit (creating doubt and confusion etc) HE DOES NOT KNOW THE LORD JESUS CHRIST.

          I will tell you and anyone else reading this, by the witness of the Holy Spirit in me, the Lord Most High does NOT ACCEPT this false teaching that Matthew is teaching about Apostle Paul, and all the twisting and perverted insinuations that Matthew Perri is doing in trying to create doubt and cast dispersion upon the teachings given to us by Paul through the Holy Spirit.

          Paul had the Holy Spirit

          Matthew Perri does not!


          Matthew Perri is operating under a satanic and very evil spirit NOT of the Father and anyone trusts in the Living God should NOT pay heed to what he says as you will become poisoned by it’s satanic words of death.

          Truely damnation rests upon his head unless he repents of his wickedness!

          Again, the Lord Jesus REBUKE YOU Matthew Perri! There WILL be consequencies with the Most High God! YOU HAVE BEEN MARKED!

          That is my final say on the matter through the Holy Spirit who at His urging wanted me to speak thus.

          If you can accept it, you can accept it. Selah.

  109. The Torah

    Before I go on with this, something needs to be made clear concerning Torah. Torah was not given as an oppressive set of rules to keep or else. There are only 613 commandments. Everything else was the oral law that the Rabbi’s put onto the backs of the people. Those things which seemed right in their sight.

    The question is, why did He give His Torah for man to follow and obey? To build a fence or a wall around us, to surround us with His Word to keep us safe and on the right path, that we may prosper in all our ways, whether it be finances, health, and so on. But also to keep those things which are harmful and will lead us astray away from us.

    If we tear down the fence (wall=Torah), then are we left up to the whims of the world. It was given for our GOOD, not to harm us and enslave us. Rather to walk in His liberty in obedience, as a good and faithful son or daughter.

    The Torah is the Tree of Life to those who partake of its fruit. It is our instructions for life. The tree of the knowledge of good and evil is for all those who reject the Tree of Life. It is the mixing of good and evil=paganism and His Word, which we see rampant today. It is why we were told in Torah not to mix seeds, not to mix linen and wool, and so on. The mixing of seeds corrupts the seed (does GMO ring a bell). The mixing of wool and linen weakens the garments we wear. It was all given for a reason. It is not arbitrary and cruel and is rich in symbolism for our lives.

    This really is not too hard to figure out. The problem is our pride will not let most of us bow to even the Messiah in all of this. Below are a couple of scriptures below that deal with this.

    Proverbs 3:13-19 – Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding. For the merchandise of it is better than the merchandise of silver, and the gain thereof than fine gold. She is more precious than rubies: and all the things thou canst desire are not to be compared unto her. Length of days is in her right hand; and in her left hand riches and honour. Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace. She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her. The LORD by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens.

    “I went by the field of the slothful, and by the vineyard of the man void of understanding; And, lo, it was all grown over with thorns, and nettles had covered the face thereof, and the stone wall thereof was broken down. Then I saw, and considered it well: I looked upon it, and received instruction.”—Proverbs 24:30-32.

    If we reject Torah in the spirit it was given by Messiah, then will we be burdened with the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. The “opt out” button doesn’t work on this one.

    • Al,

      This is good explanation about the Torah.
      We generally think that Torah = Law
      and “Law” has a somewhat negative connotation, related to legalism and punishment primarily. It’s kind of an “image problem” for the Torah.

      I have heard from some Messianic people that it would really be more accurate to think in terms of Torah = TEACHING.
      Would you agree?

      • Matthew,

        I am leaving town for about a week and do not have the time to delve into this right now, but there is much to be said about what you wrote. I will get back with you next week.


    • Al..
      The Torah

      Before I go on with this, something needs to be made clear concerning Torah. Torah was not given as an oppressive set of rules to keep or else. There are only 613 commandments…

      Let us look deeper into these 613 commandments…

      Daniel 9-11..Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.

      Gal 3-10..For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

      Are these brothers of Matthew and Al in Acts 23-12..And when it was day, certain of the Jews banded together, and bound themselves under a curse, saying that they would neither eat nor drink till they had killed Paul….Is this not what they are doing..banded together and bound under the curse till they discredit-kill Paul…

  110. Matthew .. about the Sabbath…
    Mark 3..
    2 And they watched him, whether he would heal him on the sabbath day; that they might accuse him.

    3 And he saith unto the man which had the withered hand, Stand forth.

    4 And he saith unto them, Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace.

    5 And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other.

    6 And the Pharisees went forth, and straightway took counsel with the Herodians against him, how they might destroy him.

    Would you be interested in knowing how many other LAWS Jesus broke and they conspired to kill him..

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: