8 kings of Revelation 17


Interpreting the scriptures using a historical viewpoint.

Guest Author:  Jim Giordano

There are a couple of verses in Revelation 17 that have confounded bible scholars throughout the centuries, primarily because most of the prophecy had not happened. Now with history behind us, we in the end times can finally decode Revelation 17 properly.

Rev 17 KJV

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

These 8 “kings“ have been thought to be everything from Roman emperors to U.S. presidents. But none of these explanations make any real sense.

The trick to understanding these verses is in understanding that the books of Daniel and Revelation are part of the same story. The prophecy of Daniel continues directly into the Book of Revelation. Once you realize that, you are ready to start.

Daniel clearly states that the four beasts discussed are Kingdoms, also often referred to as “kings.” They are not people! True, sometimes the beasts are referred to as “he” or in the form of a single entity, but you must realize that the “he” is referring to the actual image given to the kingdom such as a lion or a bear. So “he” the bear means the kingdom of Medo-Persia, not the leader or any other person. So, beast = kingdom… never a person or a king/leader. Once you’ve got these definitions / rules straight, you are ready to continue.

So, looking backwards, “king” = kingdom, “beast“ = kingdom, therefore beast = king and vice versa. The verses being discussed here may be called “kings” in the bible, but they also mean beasts, again, not people.

So the verses in question should read:

10 And there are seven beasts: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goes into perdition.

Now the verses are on an equal par.

Even better:

10 And there are seven kingdoms: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when it comes, it must continue a short space.

11 And the kingdom that was, and is not, even it is the eighth, and is of the seventh, and goes into perdition.

Now the verses are properly constructed.

So what were (or are) the 7th and 8th kingdoms? Well, we have to go back to Daniel for the first four – Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome. What do these four kingdoms have in common and why are they important enough to be part of bible prophecy? These kingdoms are important to God because they are the kingdoms that His people were living in and controlled by throughout history after Israel ceased to be a sovereign nation in 575 B.C.

John describes parts of the 4 Daniel beasts before he describes his first beast, just so we understand that he is continuing from the book of Daniel.

Beast 5 = Rev beast 1= first four combined

Rev 13: KJV

1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Johns first beast / kingdom comes directly from the first four of Daniel, so it shares some characteristics with it’s predecessors, including some pagan religious practices that God considers blasphemous.

The mouth of the lion refers to Babylon, the bear is Medo-Persia and the leopard is Greece. The ten horns represent the ten states that the Roman Empire broke up into when it became the Holy Roman Empire.

Then he goes on to describe two successive kingdoms as “beasts” which are to follow directly from the last kingdom of Daniel – the Roman empire.

If we read from history alone, we find that what followed the Roman empire was known as the Holy Roman Empire which was ten former Roman provinces ruled by a new, religious power – the Vatican. This empire would last from 528 to 1798 or 1260 years. This is confirmed by Daniel, who prophesies beyond the Roman empire all the way to the second coming. He describes a beast with ten horns ruled by a “little horn” and that the little horn would be a false religious power (blasphemous). And both Daniel and Revelation indicate that the Holy Roman Empire / kingdom would last 1260 years. That can’t be just a huge coincidence.


Little Horn

Daniel 7: KJV

24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

The three kings (Roman states) that were subdued (disappeared) were the Vandals, the Heruli and the Ostrogoths.

Here is the deal with the little horn… it can be tricky.

The “little horn” of Daniel is the Vatican, which controlled the other ten horns (more stout than its fellows) at least in religious matters.

So technically he speaks of 11 horns, but then 3 are “plucked up by the roots, leaving 7 plus the Vatican for a total of 8. Weird eh?

So in the statue and later beast descriptions Daniel refers only to the ten / seven actual nations, but the Vatican is never given full nation status like the others. Until 1929 that is when it does become a genuine beast / kingdom.

**Confirmation Note: the little horn was the Papacy



Author: Professor Walter J. Veith, PhD

I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots (Daniel 7:8).

Three of the ten kingdoms were to be destroyed by the instigation of the little horn power. Only the Papacy fits this description. Three kingdoms that did not accept the papal mandates regarding Christ’s divinity were literally uprooted and mercilessly destroyed. Although the doctrine of the divinity of Christ was correct, the method of dealing with it was not.

Since the little horn made its appearance after the subdivision of Rome into ten different states (after 476 AD) but before the destruction of three of them because it arises among all ten, we now have a very definite time frame for the rise of the Antichrist power. The Heruli, Vandals, and Ostrogoths were eliminated by the year 538 AD. This power was to arise between 476 AD and 538 AD.

These conquests strengthened the hand of the Papacy, which was established by the year 538 AD. In that year, Vigilus, the bishop of Rome, ascended the papal throne under the protection of the Roman general Belisarius. The date for the establishment of papal Rome as an independent power can thus be pinned at 538 AD.

25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

This refers to a year, 2 years plus half a year which equals 3-1/2 years or 42 months. Using the day-for-a-year conversion for prophecy 42 months = 1260 days or 1260 actual years.

Rev 13: KJV

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Using the year-for-a-day conversion in prophecy, 42 months actually means 1260 years. So without a doubt, the 1st beast of Revelation must be the Holy Roman Empire.

2nd beast of Revelation

Rev 13: KJV

11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spoke as a dragon.

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

First of all, this kingdom is religious (Christ-like as the lambs horns reveal) and it continues to wield the religious power of the first beast, the Holy Roman Empire. All we have to do is look in our history books again. After the pope was captured by Napoleon (the final Holy Roman Emperor) in 1798 the Holy Roman Empire was ended and the Vatican was stripped of power (a deadly wound to the “little head“ of the first beast (Holy Roman Empire).

It officially became a world kingdom in 1929 when Mussolini restored it to nation status, confirmed today by its seat in the U.N. Thus the current Vatican system / kingdom is the 2nd beast of Revelation and the 6th kingdom overall including Daniel.

Note that after the messiah came, God’s people became the Christians, centered in Rome and no longer the Jews centered in Jerusalem. And to this day, the primary Christian church on earth is controlled by the Vatican. Revelation 12 outlines how the Jewish church (12 tribes) became Christian with the birth of the messiah and how that church was persecuted by the upcoming first beast of Revelation (Holy Roman Empire).  Revelation 12 is a direct prequel to Revelation 13. The woman of Revelation 12 is the true Christian church and the beasts of Revelation 13 are the evil forces who corrupted her.

Now to the proper context of the following verses we discussed at the beginning:

Was, is not, and will be

Rev 17: KJV

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

So at the time of the 7th “king” which is the European Union (after 2010), the only one of John’s kingdoms that “was” is the first beast – the Holy Roman Empire which was long gone by then.

These verses appear after the Vatican, or the 6th “king” overall had been written by John. But he elaborates on a few other topics in Revelation 13 thru 16 and most readers forget about the beast / kingdom story from Revelation 13. So he continues with another “flashback” to what has been said so far. He says that up to this point of the story he has discussed six beast kingdoms. But there is a seventh one still to discuss.

So, up to this point in John’s story (he is currently talking about the 6th kingdom – the Vatican), the first five (Babylon thru the Holy Roman Empire) are gone (fallen). But the 6th beast / kingdom (the Vatican) still “is” (the Vatican was not an “is” at the time of John, but Rome was the “is”) and that a 7th kingdom will come sometime after 1929 and only last a short time. This event would be a restoration of the remnant of the 4th beast, the Roman empire, which in 2010 became the European Union. It is only 8 years old and won’t last too much longer. In any case, its reign can be considered very short compared to the previous kingdoms.

So who is the mysterious 8th kingdom?

Simple logic reveals the answer. John just described three beasts – the Holy Roman Empire, the Vatican and the European Union (kings 5, 6 and 7).

Of these, only the 6th king – the Holy Roman Empire “is not” any more. The Vatican and the European Union will last until the second coming. So, the kingdom that “is not” can only be one thing – the 8th kingdom – a restored version of the original Holy Roman Empire.

So the 8th kingdom must be a restored version of the original Holy Roman Empire. It will be a combination of the modern Vatican and the European Union – the 6th and 7th beasts. Except that not the entire European Union will be a part of it, only a select ten nations, according to Revelation.

10 Horns = 10 Kings

Rev 17: KJV

12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.



So to recap, here is a complete list of the 8 kings (kingdoms):

1. Babylon (575-539 B.C.) [1st beast of Daniel, 1st king overall]

2. Medo-Persia (539-449 B.C.) [2nd beast of Daniel, 2nd king overall]

3. Greece 449-146 B.C. [3rd beast of Daniel, 3rd king overall]

4. Rome (146 B.C. – 476 A.D.) [4th beast of Daniel, 4th king overall]

5. Holy Roman empire (538-1798) [1st beast of Revelation, 5th king overall]

6. Vatican (1929-present) [2nd beast of Revelation, 6th king overall]

7. Revived Roman empire (European Union 2010-present) [3rd beast of Revelation, 7th king overall]

8. Restored Holy Roman Empire Future Kingdom -The 6th + the 7th kingdoms = 8th kingdom. [4th beast of Revelation, 8th king overall]

Note: The above dates are when each kingdom took control of God’s people. Many kingdoms overlapped for a while.

5 Fallen

Now let me further explain the 5 have fallen part of the story.

First we must realize that the 5 kingdoms which have fallen were not fallen at the time of John’s writing in 95 A.D. This is future prophecy so events in 95 A.D. have no part in the story. The 5 kings that have fallen are simply fallen by that point in the story.

Let me clarify:

John describes kings 5 and 6 as “beasts 1 & 2” in Revelation 13.

As we read Revelation John describes the first 2 beasts in Revelation 13, but then he side-tracks for 3 chapters in further describing these beasts in detail. So by the time we get to Revelation 17 many people have forgotten that John was still telling the beast story. By Revelation 17 he had described the first six (including Daniel’s) so he now continues the kingdom thread of his story by saying there will be another kingdom – #7.

While he doesn’t describe this kingdom as he does the first two beasts we can deduce this kingdom from recent history. The kingdom follows the previous ones, so we can assume it is not the U.S., nor China, Australia, Africa etc. as these kingdoms are not related to all the previous ones.

Remember that the story is about God’s people and the kingdoms that control them, and since the time of Christ these are the Christians. The great majority of Christians are Catholics, and have been controlled by the Vatican, which is located in Europe. Therefore, the 7th kingdom must involve the European Union nations.

We can also confirm this by reading ahead to the 8th kingdom, which is the “same” as the 5th kingdom (the fallen beast). And since the 5th kingdom was the Holy Roman Empire, then logic dictates that the 8th kingdom will be a modern version of the Holy Roman Empire.

In order to restore the Holy Roman Empire, you need to combine the Roman empire with the Vatican just as it was for the original. That requires the 7th kingdom to be a new version of the Roman empire, and the European Union fits the bill perfectly since it includes Italy and the Vatican.

John also claims that the 8th kingdom is “of the 7th” so if it is a restored Holy Roman Empire then the 7th kingdom must be the European Union combining with the Vatican. No other nations on earth fit the bill.

Now the big question, “Why would the European Union (or parts of it) give the Vatican the same sort of power it had during the Holy Roman Empire?

The answer relates to the mark of the beast.



While the purpose of this article is not to prove what the mark of the beast is, I will outline my interpretation and you can Google the topic for more details.

Briefly, we know from Rev.12 and 14 that those who do not suffer the plagues are those who keep the commandments. Therefore, the mark of the beast is the breaking of a commandment.

Rev 12: KJV

17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman [God’s true church], and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14: KJV

9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascends up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receives the mark of his name.

12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

So clearly, those saints who keep the commandments do not get the mark of the beast, so the mark must be the breaking of a commandment.

But which commandment constitutes the mark of the beast?

In Daniel 7:4 it says that the little horn (Vatican) will think to change laws AND times. The only commandment (law) that deals with time is the 4th commandment, “Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy.”

Well, we all know that the Catholic church changed the Sabbath day to Sunday, but few Christians realize that it will become the mark of the beast.

But what about the mark and that buying and selling thing?

First, in your bible concordance you will discover that a mark is not physical, but a “sign.” And the right hand and the forehead are referring to your works (most people are right handed) and your mind or beliefs.

Revelation 7 says it will take 144,000 righteous people and “seal“ them in their foreheads. Note that a “seal” also means a mark. So mark / seal = “sign.” These people will not be physically marked (nor chipped). In fact, God forbids His people to mark (tattoo) their bodies.

KJV Def. “sign”: A mark by which persons or things are distinguished and made known.“

In this case the sign is that the sealed are deemed righteous by God and they understand His laws. Note that if they also follow His commandments then they are sealed in their right hands – their works.

Now , what about the buy and sell thing? The bible says that those who do not take the mark of the beast (and remember, the last beast is the restored Holy Roman Empire) will not be able to “buy and sell” or in other words, own a business.

**Marianne Note: we see this discrimination today with the censorship of Christian businesses and websites. This discrimination will increase.

So, if the mark of the beast involves breaking the Sabbath law, then the mark is a sign that people will believe in or practice breaking the Sabbath law, primarily by worshipping on a different day.

It is clear that currently over 99% of all practicing Christians already worship on the wrong day, and the Vatican church has been practicing Sunday worship since its beginnings, claiming that it had the power to change God’s laws thru the power of the pope. It seems that God has predicted His 4th commandment would be forgotten, even though it begins with the word “remember.”

And even non-church goers who simply believe that Sunday is the true Sabbath will have the mark. People in other religions who don’t know or practice Sunday worship will actually be spared. God only punishes His own people (or those who wish them harm – on occasions).

Since the Vatican already believes in and practices Sunday worship it has been spreading the mark of the beast for 1,700 years, so the prophecy that the end-time Vatican would be pressing for Sunday worship is already here. Also, in 2002 pope John Paul II signed a papal decree forcing Sunday-only worship where Friday and Saturday are outlawed. So it is already on the books, it just can’t be enforced… yet.

But what about the buying and selling part?

Well, that just means that there will soon be a requirement for all business owners to follow the mark. They will be required to honor the false Sabbath by closing their shops on Sundays and remain open on all other days. These laws are already in place in France today and used to be known as “Blue Laws” in the U.S. only 60 years ago.

But mandatory Sunday-only worship is not in force today as it was in the Holy Roman Empire. But it is coming back, according to prophecy. As I mentioned before, the 8th kingdom will be a restored Holy Roman Empire, created by the European Union and the Vatican combining forces. The European Union will give the Vatican complete religious power (in 10 European countries) and the pope will finally be able to enforce the mark in these countries.


Now comes the all-important question. Why on earth would the leaders of 10 countries give the pope complete religious power?

This relates to the removal of unwanted people in “Christian countries.”

Consider this… what might be the consequences of forced Sunday-only worship? Well, obviously, any religion which worships on any other day such as the Muslims on Friday and the Jews on Saturday will no longer be able to practice properly in these nations.

If a Jew wants to honor the true Sabbath or if a Muslim wants to properly pray to Mecca on Friday, they will no longer be allowed to do so. If they are serious about their religion, they will have to move to a different country.

Now, let’s say you were the leader of Germany, and you wanted to get rid of all radical Islamists and many not-so-radical Muslims, but you didn’t want to round them up Gestapo-style and put them in box cars headed for Syria and points south. You want them to leave voluntarily and not blame it on the government. So you give the Vatican complete religious power. With the Muslims and Jews unable to worship on the proper days, and add to that the inability to obtain a business license, the overcrowded European nations will be able to get rid of many unwanted peoples.

After all, radical Islam is a religious institution, so a country can simply claim they are a “Christian nation” and it will be run in such a way. Just look at what has happened to Christianity in many Muslim countries. Before their liberation, Iraq had over 300 Christian churches. Today there are none. So if Islam wants to eradicate competing religions, why not do the same in Christian countries? Seems only fair.

So all these ten nations need to do is adopt the mark of the beast and their Islamic problem is over, or at least improved. It is a clean and simple solution to the growing problem that is now plaguing Europe. Also note that anti-Semitism is now greater in Europe than ever before, even during WW2. So the mark would solve two religious problems at once.

And speaking of the restored Holy Roman Empire, many European businessmen and journalists etc, are now talking about a new Holy Roman Empire and are even considering who they might want to be the next Holy Roman Emperor. So this idea is not as far-fetched as it might seem.



Between Daniel and Revelation, the Bible tells the complete story of God’s peoples , from Babylon thru the second coming. Continuous and unbroken, without jumping all over the world. There will be a total of 8 kingdoms (beasts) that control God’s peoples, at least the vast majority of them.

Daniel speaks of the first four… Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome.

Revelation discusses the last four: the Holy Roman Empire, the Vatican, the European Union (revived Roman empire) and a yet to form a restored, modified Holy Roman Empire. Knowing these 8 beast / kingdoms will greatly enable a bible reader to understand prophecy and be ready for soon-to-come events.

See also:

Is the Beast Rome?

42 Responses to “8 kings of Revelation 17”

  1. […] […]

  2. The seven kingdoms in Revelation 17 are I believe:

    1. Babylon
    2. Medo Persia
    3. Greece
    4. Roman Empire
    5. Papacy(ended 1798)

    6. USA(1798 to present day, the earth beast of Rev 13)

    7. U.N.(not yet fully formed, this is the head with 10 horns, people assume the horns are on all the heads)

    8. Papacy restored(future still, The papacy has not yet received its power and authority)

    • david

      interesting options / viewpoint

      • On the point of buying and selling: It is already in the power of countries authorities to make people it doesn’t like non persons money speaking. They can if they want to freeze the assets of persons and make it almost impossible for someone to exist. Already wages are paid electronically into a bank account. It is rare these days for someone to be paid in cash(unless that someone does work such as painting and decorating or plumbers). I don’t think we are there yet though. Cash would have to be done away with completely first, taken out of circulation. Everyone would have to be paid electronically such as Paypal and other such payment systems. It is scary to think that only a couple of decades ago just about everybody was paid in cash either weekly on a Friday at the end of a week. Incidentally even now I can pay my bills electronically through my bank account, I can pay directly into other people’s bank accounts using Faster Banking Payments. I just need their account number and banking sort code. This is generally how I pay my credit cards every month.

        There are two groups of people in Revelation 7: The 144,000 and another group that is so big in number it can’t be counted. The 144,000 are the people who live to see the second coming never having tasted death.

        The prophecies in Revelation mostly cover events between the first and second coming and beyond to eternality. The churches, the trumpets and the seals are I believe parallel prophecies all following the same time line though I am open to the idea that they have more than one fulfilment.

        I was a member of the Seventh day Adventist church for several years. I left 5 years ago as I believed the church had left its first love and moved away from its original teachings and beliefs and allowed error in and teaching it as though it was the truth. Pray for the people therein, they are deceived and misguided.

    • 4~21~2019 First Day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread
      Yahshua the Son of Yahweh Returns VERY SOON! PRAY NOW to be SAVED and SEALED in THEM. Revelation 14:1 HalleluYah! Hebrew: “Praise ye Yah!”

      David, I, too, believe that the U.S. Government is the Two Horned Beast of Revelation 13. It turns its government over to the Vatican (a very long time ago). The Pope kissed the ground (does it only once for each country) when he came to the U.S. in Carter or Reagan’s time. In the end the nations of the E.U. unite with the U.S. Government in enforcing the Christian worship of The Vatican. This article seems to be from a Seventh Day Adventist viewpoint, a Christian denomination. They teach that the Two Horned beast is the U.S. Government. The fourth commandment concerns the Sabbath. However, the FIRST commandment is WHO we worship! The Papacy changed BOTH. The final saints will NOT be Christians. WHY? Because in Greek, the #666 in Revelation 13:18 translates to Christos Zeus which became the pagan name “Jesus Christ” with a CROSS, X as in Xmas. Greek Diaglott, Free on The Web These ARE The Mark of the Beast. The people in history known as the Puritans and also the Pilgrims were NOT Christians but also believers in the TRUE Bible faith. Some of them were my ancestors. Yahweh (for many decades) has been calling out a people for His Name’s sake. The facts are abundant on The Web if anyone cares to read them. I pray that ALL reading these words will be like the Bereans and prayerfully consider them!


  3. Judaism is pushing Trump to enforce the Noahide laws which pushes out Yahshauh all together for they do not accept Yahoshuah as YHVH/YHWH.

  4. Interesting Read & synopsis

  5. Very good observations! I’ve known what I call the ‘Roman universal political religious organization’ to be the culprit here.
    They have also been in control of the governments of earth with their insidious army of Jesuits who report to the Pope. The Pope of course is presently a Jesuit himself so its come full circle.
    Rome forced the Jewish Nazarenes followers of The Way to keep their imperial cult day (paying in effect homage to Cesar Crestus) or Sunday and murdered many Jews, followers of Yeshua for not doing so. Hence they already established the precedent for the mark of the beast. Even renaming believers as crestianus was one of the many changes Rome made but undoubtedly the changing of Yah’s Shabbat from Saturday to the sol dei, their imperial cult day or Sunday, was the worse one as Shabbat observance is the mark of Yah’s people.

  6. I am wondering if the events in Sri Lanka might be the start of a new Christian – Muslim conflict that will spread to Europe and eventually cause some (10) European nations to proclaim their Christianity and give power to the Vatican to control them religiously. This would give rise to the pope (False Prophet) and the opening of the first seal (often thought of as the Antichrist). Then the pope could attempt to suppress the Muslims by instituting Sunday only worship (mark of the beast) which could drive the devout Muslims out of Europe without the need for a Nazi style roundup and forced expulsion.
    I think some sort of anti-Muslim legislation in Europe is likely in the near future as long as Muslim aggression continues and Sri Lanka shows that it only seems to be escalating.
    Time will tell.

    • jim

      so far, many european leaders like Merkel welcome the muslims. it would have to be the people who rise up.

      • So far most Europeans are fairly receptive to the Muslims but if a European jihad begins, things will change in a hurry. Give it another 8 or 9 years and we’ll see what happens.

  7. ——St. Malachy Pope List —————–
    In the final persecution of the Holy Roman Church, there will sit.
    “In persecutione extrema S.R.E. sedebit.”

    “Peter the Roman, who will pasture his sheep in many tribulations, and when these things are finished, the city of seven hills [i.e. Rome] will be destroyed, and the dreadful judge will judge his people. The End.”

  8. Marianne, I figured this out along time ago except it is not what you think…I don’t understand Revelation completely but while on a trip to a region which will remain undisclosed I saw magnificent fortresses that were churches…something (I don’t know what will not presume) showed me that these were the images of the system.

    Please do not misunderstand me. I believe there are many Christians in the system on Sunday but they need to get out of government-funded institutions!!!! Soon!!!

    Rev 13:14  And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should MAKE AN IMAGE to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 

    the Greek word for image can also mean “Representation”.

    • blue lotus

      this is a guest post. not mine. so the author should address your concerns

      • That’s okay I’m pretty used to being ignored 🙂

        • Awwww!

          • Marianne, I just realized WHO the author of this article is! (That was very careless of me NOT to notice before!) I am really surprised that YOU have him on as a guest writer. It must be getting tough for you or, as the old American saying goes: “Birds of a feather flock together.”
            This troublesome Jim is writing from a Seventh Day Adventist viewpoint when it comes to “The Mark of the Beast”. However, he IGNORES the SDA teaching that The Two Horned Beast of Revelation 13 represents the US Government. (He must have been told this a zillion times!) In this chapter the time frame is correct. I believe that the two horns of the beast were that of an American bison (buffalo) only native to North America. I believe that THIS is what John saw. He had never seen a beast like this. The closest animal that looked like a buffalo could be a lamb. I did not hear about this from anyone else. Yahweh revealed this to me decades ago. A number of 19th Century Bible teachers taught that the U.S. Government was the Two Horned beast including Ellen G. White of the SDA’s. in 1888. They also teach that the U.S. Government is the first one to enforce the Vatican tenant known as “The Mark of the Beast” soon followed by all other major governments (EU?) However, Scripture indicates they are WRONG on what this MARK is! As I’ve stated possibly a zillion times before, a translation of the Greek for Revelation 13:18 tells us WHAT it is. (In it there isn’t any mention of the Sabbath at all.) The Greek letters/numbers translate into the pagan name “Christos Zeus” (Zeus the Savior, the CHIEF idol of the Greeks) with a CROSS, X as in Xmas! This vile name became the name of the image (idol) of the beast’s (Vatican’s) religion: CHRISTIANITY. That name is “Jesus Christ”! I understand that CHRISTIANITY can be the greatest deception of these LAST DAYS.
            Poor Jim! He just CAN’T seem to get it RIGHT! The Roman Empire had TWO legs! One was pagan Rome which was actually represented by a dragon. The other was Holy or Papal Rome. Scripture states that the dragon GAVE him (The Pope) his seat and great authority. This was really signified by Emperor Constantine (The Terrible, for WHAT he did!) who traded the Roman Golden Eagle for the Christian CROSS. in the Third Century A.D. He enforced a death decree for those keeping the Sabbath instead of Sunday as he was a SUN WORSHIPER all of his life. I believe that he (and his mother) can be considered the founders of modern CHRISTIANITY, a religion that has always been PAGAN! All Christians are Roman Catholic in belief because of WHO they worship! Until the Third Century the Names of Yahweh and His Son Yahshua were well known and the Hebraic calendar much followed. Even in later centuries believers known as the Puritans and Pilgrims followed THIS faith. They considered Christianity a Baal (translation of the name Lord) religion and HATED the cross! Many faced death for their faith in Yahweh the Father and salvation only through Yahshua His Son.
            In my understanding of Bible Eschatology, Islam is also a Vatican deception started in The Middle East to deceive those who would not accept pagan Christianity. I consider Mohammad “The False Prophet” in Revelation. Yes, I KNOW that terribly deceived Christian pastors teach that the False Prophet may even be Jewish! Moslems claim to believe the first books of the Bible but like all Christians are worshipping a pagan deity NOT Yahweh, the Creator of Everything! Actually, Islamic forces seem to work in tandem with Christian agencies to bring about the Vatican agenda.
            In light of the ABOVE, world events may really SURPRISE us but NOT deceive those of us with the TRUE Bible faith. In light of the ABOVE, maybe Israel should NOT trust in the U.S. Government if (IF!) it’s The Two Horned beast of Revelation 13:18.


            • I allow guest post sometimes so people can express their opinion. if you want you can be a guest author too and Xpress yours as well

              • Hi Marianne. You gave a very diplomatic reply to my comment. I would possible do something about natural healing because there is a real NEED. Most of those reading these threads must know by now how I believe spiritually. Thank you for the invitation!

                • jayna

                  Well the offer still stands. It would get your thoughts out of the comments, and up to a post level.

                  you can write about any topic.

                  • Thanks Marianne! I will think about it. As a caregiver of everything I am so busy. I do post to my e-mail responses like yours because it is vital to give an answer for true Bible faith.

            • Jayna,
              While many churches including the 7th Day Adventists teach that the U.S. is the second beast I don’t buy into it. It simply doesn’t fit, especially if you realize that all the beasts represent kingdoms that control the majority of God’s people throughout history. America does not control any religious groups – that is written into our constitution and they especially don’t control the Catholic church as America is primarily a protestant country.
              Rev13 says that the second beast excersizeth all the power of the first beast before him. If the first beast was the Holy Roman Empire you can’t claim that the U.S. has all the power of the Holy Roman Empire – that makes no sense, but since the Vatican was in control of the Holy Roman Empire which controlled most Christians at that time, then the Vatican as the second beast (which acts as the lamb of God) also controls the bulk of modern Christians (the 1.3 billion catholics) so the verse I quoted is completely true. Plus John had seen oxen and water buffaloes so the word lamb is surely a reference to the lamb of God.
              Also the 2nd beast or its leader will cause mircales and fire to fall from the sky etc. If this is America, do you suppose that the president will perform actual miracles (unexplainable by modern science) in the sight of man? Crazy! And rev13 says that the 2nd beast will cause the world to worship the first beast – the Holy Roman Empire! Why would the U.S. Do that? But if the Holy Roman Empire is recreated as the 8th kingdom, then you would expect the pope to want the whole world to worship the Vatican and its miracle performing leader. What were you expecting for the 7th and 8th kingdoms?
              As for 666, it is the number of the beast or the man who controls that beast. The popes title is Vicarius Filii Dei which in Roman numerals equals 666.
              Christos Zeus is a made-up name to fit the greek numbering system. Nobody uses that name. Plus it is supposed to be the number of the beast, or in your case the number of the “United States of America,“ or “President Trump” or something at least related to the U.S. not to some Idol of ancient Greece.
              And the Roman empire did have two legs – the Western empire headed by Rome and the Eastern empire headed by Constantinople. The western empire became papal Rome. Papal Rome did not exist until the Roman empire fell, it was not part of the original Roman empire. GET YOUR HISTORY STRAIGHT.
              As for Mohammed being the False Prophet that makes no sense. The False Prophet is a player in end-time events. He will be destroyed along with the Vatican beast. How can a dead prophet of an unreal religion become a part of the Great Tribulation and be killed with the U.S. in your scenario? You are claiming God will kill a dead prophet and destroy one country and leave the Vatican intact? Is that how He will prepare for the marriage of Christ to His people?
              You hate the Vatican and blame it for the world’s religious problems. Yet you think God would rather destroy the U.S. and kill me and you and everyone on this site and not destroy the Vatican?
              Sorry but your theory is full of holes and makes no sense. And you can’t come close to explaining every verse in rev17. And you actually believe that the U.S. Is controlling the Vatican? There is absolutely no evidence for that claim. And you need to rewrite history to make your claims seem to fit, but they don’t really.
              Everything in my article is logical and makes sense and fits all of Revelation perfectly. It took me many years of study to overcome many commonly held beliefs to come up with my explanation. Unless your theory fits every verse of Revelation perfectly I will continue to reject it. And remember – for years you vehemently claimed that the second coming would happen in 2018 – no doubt in your mind. You claimed I was an idiot for not seeing your truth.
              So who’s laughing now?

              • 5~14~2019 Israel’s 71st Birthday and Independence Day.
                Yahshua the Son of Yahweh Returns VERY SOON! PRAY NOW to be SAVED and SEALED in THEM. Revelation 14:1 HalleluYah!

                Jim, I did not know that “many churches” teach that The Two Horned Beast is the U.S. Government. I have only heard about the SDA’s (Specifically Ellen G. White in the 1888’s Great Controversy). You keep reading into Scripture your OWN thoughts. The Bible does not state that the beasts in prophecy control most of Yahweh’s people. Also, your terms are all confused. True Protestants were here long before 1776 (some because of Christian persecution in Europe) and helped to found America. These were NOT CHRISTIANS! They were believers like me who worshiped in the Biblical Hebrew Names and Calendar. When Puritans and Pilgrims are mentioned just KNOW that they were NOT CHRISTIAN! They hated the Christian pagan holy days and especially the CROSS! Again, ALL CHRISTIANS are Roman Catholic in belief and practice whether they know it or not. They also unknowingly have The Mark of the Beast in the temple area of their foreheads. It may be an easy step for them to accept it when enforced by law by some president of the U.S. For many years now the U.S. Government has exercised its power to fight wars for the Vatican. The
                Vietnam War was supposedly fought for drug control that the Vatican sought.
                And, why so many Mexicans (Roman Catholic) have been allowed an “open border”? Jim, you really ought to get a CLUE! No, I do not believe that John saw a water buffalo in Israel because they are not there! Try India. Or an ox. Surely, if he HAD seen an ox, he would have said so as he KNEW what it was! He saw a two horned beast and he could not name it. He did NOT say it was a lamb. He said it was like a lamb. And, it did NOT represent Yahshua, the Lamb of Yahweh!
                Jim, you have REAL problems with reading Scripture and seem to deceive yourself with wrong conclusions over and over again. Fire from Heaven (or at least from above!)? The U.S. Government caused Hiroshima and Nagasaki, 9/11, and possibly the Fukushima meltdowns to name a few. Ever hear of them?
                Scripture states that The Two Horned Beast enforces the worship of the image (idol) of the first beast. Jim, I did NOT ever say that the U.S. Government controls The Vatican! You seem to be always telling lies. Yes, the U.S. Government enforces The Mark of the Beast, the #666, which in the Greek translation eventually becomes the pagan name “Jesus Christ” the name of the image (idol) of the beast (Vatican). You write that no one uses the name Christos Zeus (Zeus the Savior). Millions of Greeks HAVE because he was their chief idol! The Romans copied the Greeks even in their religion. Christianity as a world wide religion had its real start with Constantine the Terrible a life long sun worshiper. He instituted the worship of the CROSS which is a part of the #666 in Greek (X as in Xmas!)
                Jim, I HAVE MY HISTORY AND SALVATION STRAIGHT AND HAVE SINCE I HAVE BEEN POSTING ON THESE THREADS! YOU DON’T AND ARE COMPLETELY WRONG IN YOUR POSTS. I hate that your interpretations can mislead readers. It’s bad enough that you have deceived yourself!
                Now, WHO else can be the “False Prophet” if it is not Mohammad and his religion of Islam? Moslems believe in the first books of the Bible but Islam was started also by the Vatican in the fifth century A.D. The beast and false prophet are cast into “The Lake of Fire”. Symbolically, these are the Vatican and Islam. How can it be anything ELSE? These are NOT represented by ONE individual!
                I still believe that Yahshua returns VERY SOON possibly even this year. I have printed cards this time that state He may even return in 2019. ARE YOU READY? Or, are you still waiting to circa 2030?
                Jim, your writing seems to be completely deranged. I wrote nothing about the U.S. being killed or destroyed. Islam is just as made up as Christianity. I wrote that you were NOT seeing Bible truth and YOU ARE NOT. You either need to seek mental help or REPENT. You have remained in Christianity when you should have come out of HER a very long time ago! (Yahshua in Revelation 18:4)


                BE ONE NOW!

  9. Rev 13:14  And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. 

  10. Marianne, your blog is not allowing me to post comments. Have I done something wrong??!!

  11. Jayna,
    You know, you and I aren’t far apart on out ideas.
    We both believe that an end-time beast will attempt to force Catholicism on a group of people. We just disagree on the beast/ False Prophet.
    You have been saying that the beast is the U.S. and that George Bush Sr. is in cahoots with the Vatican and will force Catholicism on the U.S. And that the mark of the beast is all of Christianity. And that somehow Mohammed will be the false prophet tat will be destroyed in the Lake of Fire along with the US beast. The problem with this idea is that it is illogical and impossible.
    Bush is dead and your conspiracy theory that he is being secluded by the government until the time is right is just ludicrous, as is the idea that Mohammed will somehow come back to life in the end times only to be killed again by God at the second coming. There is no way the US government will ever endorse any specific religion and attempt to force it on the people. It is contrary to the constitution and everything our country stands for. And it makes no sense as to why anyone in government would want to do so. This idea is just silly.
    But if the beast is the Vatican, and the subjects are ten nations of Europe – specifically those that were part of the original Holy Roman Empire, and the False Prophet is the pope, then the Book of Revelation makes perfect sense. These nations have a good reason to enforce parts of Christianity on its people – to attempt to drive out the Muslim refugees that have overloaded their countries.
    You are right that the Catholic church has polluted God’s religion with all sorts of paganisms. Christianity for the most part is corrupted and needs to be destroyed. But just destroying the US will not fix this problem. The U.S. has never polluted any church, and it will never start doing so which makes your idea so silly.
    God must destroy all the pollutants in modern Christianity. He must get to the source of the problem – the Catholic church and the pope. To destroy the US and let the pope and the Vatican continue to minister to most of God’s peoples is ridiculous. Its a dumb idea – far too stupid for God to go with.
    So, it is one thing to read the bible and come up with an explanation that sorta fits it, but it is quite another to come up with a scenario that actually makes sense, is at least reasonably possible, and fits the character of God.
    I bought into the U.S. Beast idea for many years when I first followed the SDA church, but they were never able to explain WHY it would happen. They overlooked many verses (as do you) and it just never made real sense to me. I’m an engineer and I deal with logic and any explanation that is illogical will cause me to reevaluate my faith in it. Like most Christians you fail to consider logic in your bible interpretation. Many people just think that God will force it all to happen using “miracles” and the power of His will. But this is prophecy and it predicts the actions of people. We see no miracles forcing the events of human history. There is no hint of magic involved. To think this will change in the near future is simply… silly!

    • Jim, the words you wrote in your last post PROVE that you either are just totally deceived or definitely need mental help. No, we are NOT close at all in our beliefs. Sadly, we are TOTALLY FAR APART! You have refused to come out of Christianity. ALL saints MUST DO THIS if they are going to choose to believe the truth and be SAVED in these LAST DAYS.
      The beast rising out of the sea (multitude of peoples) in Revelation 13:1 develops into The Vatican. The Two Horned Beast (coming out of the wilderness earth) is the U.S. Government. It turns its power over to the Vatican (a long time ago!) Christianity can NOT be reformed or made right. There is NOTHING Judeo or Biblical about it! Again, IT HAS ALWAYS BEEN A PAGAN RELIGION! The ONLY thing we CAN do with IT is “COME OUT OF HER” as Yahshua tells us to do in Revelation 18:4 I DID a very long time ago! You HAVE NOT! And, I have NOT been a Christian since 1973 when I chose to believe in Yahweh the Father and Yahshua His Son. HalleluYah! Only believers in Yahweh and Yahshua have the RIGHT to say this Hebrew word of praise.
      The Greek translation (any of them!) for the #666 in Revelation 13:18 by way of Zeus is the pagan name Jesus Christ with a CROSS ( X as in Xmas!) This is the name of the image (idol) of the beast (Vatican). This is The Mark of the Beast that the U.S. Government will enforce by law NOT SUNDAY WORSHIP! Yes, this once lamb like U.S. government will force its people to worship an image (idol) of the Vatican’s creation: JESUS CHRIST of CHRISTIANITY! John wrote that the WISE will UNDERSTAND.
      And, THEY DO!
      I wrote that maybe Bush Sr. did not die (although he was old enough to pass years ago). We do not know! He DID work for the Vatican and probably did the most damage of any U.S. president. I wrote nothing about the U.S. being destroyed. It will be attacked in the Northern Attack of Ezekiel 38-39, Psalm 91. I did not write that Mohammad would come back to life. I wrote that ISLAM is the False Prophet. It’s possible Islam’s supreme leader, the pope at that time, and/or the U.S. president who enforces The Mark may be tossed into The Lake of Fire. ( The Bible does not say WHICH beast goes into the fire,) And, the passage may be allegorical meaning that symbolically Islam and Christianity go into the fire. Christianity is pictured as “Mystery Babylon” the Mother of Harlots (numerous Christian denominations). Christianity descended from ancient Babylon, Greece, and Rome NOT Israel!
      Jim, apparently you also do not have any REAL understanding of history. If you DID, you would NOT have given up your original belief that the U.S. Government is The Two Horned Beast in Revelation. Sadly, it seems that you have become “spiritually blind” and you just keep trying to lead the blind. Now, for me, YOU ARE BEING SILLY!


  12. There are 4 kingdoms not listed that covered the region. They are known as Caliphate. These rise out of the fallen Roman Empire. They are vast kingdoms represented by the banner of the Arab Rebellion: White, Red, Black and Green.

    Then came the Ottoman Empire, defeated and removed from power in the region after WWI.

    The Ottoman Empire controlled the land of Israel. Who took control of the region? The U.K., United Kingdom.

    Who divided up the region into nations? The U.K.

    Just more information and history to consider.

    • dj

      that is good information. i had always followed the theory that was the ancient grecian empire that would contribute the selucid “beast” ancestor who result in the ottoman muslim empire, which would produce the beast, possibly from jordan hashimites.

  13. 6~21~2019 First Day of Summer (but are we still in winter in Southern CA?)

    We should ALL have President Trump and VP Mike Pence in our prayers NOW ! Trump plans to start removing illegal aliens from America next week. Impeachment did not work so what’s next? Trump is not following the Vatican’s agenda. I believe that they are both in great danger. If taken out Nancy Pelosi as Speaker of the House would be in charge. The Mark of the Beast could then be enforced in a “heartbeat”. Please be ready!


    • jayna

      things are certainly heating up. the more trump is successful, the more deranged and violent the left gets.

      • 6~29~2019 Sabbath in June Gloom, Southern CA. Yesterday we had 1/4″ of rain here which I have never seen here before this time of year. Weather Channel said 10% chance of rain.) But we’ll TAKE it! Also, often the sky is very light here at 2: or 3:00 a.m. (????)

        Marianne, President Trump seems to be getting a little better about making comments. Before, he did not help his case by making statements that fueled their fires and turned people against him. I remember John F. Kennedy who was really well loved and a genuine war hero. He was Roman Catholic from a family that made a fortune from bootlegging, etc. However, he was an American patriot who tried to restore the Constitutional powers. When he was killed there was such an outpouring of grief. In a sense the American dream died with him. Since then the powers that be have done everything they can to tarnish his memory. NOT WITH ME!


        • jayna

          Democrats turned many americans against trump, not because of his tweets, but because of their lies. Trump just told the truth and that made them angry. the fault is theirs. I would have said worse to them.

          • Marianne, please try to remember with an open mind. In the past, Trump has said things like if he killed someone on the street he was so well liked that he could get away with it. Comments like these have not endeared him to the American public whether they are Democrat, Republican, or like me who does not vote. Frankly, if he was not helping Israel so much he would seem more like earlier presidents, a lot of talk but no walk. I have to keep remembering that this U.S. Government will be the first to enforce “The Mark of the Beast”. We hope that it is not President Donald J. Trump.


            • a few off remarks do not bother me…usually he made good remarks

              • Marianne, A FEW? He has said many distasteful things but he seems to be getting better about it now. Something momentous possibly will be happening this coming week. WHATEVER it is I pray that we are all ready!


                • jayna

                  it depends on the listener what they perceive as distasteful. whether it is intended as distasteful is another matter.

                  I HEARD Trump on TV apologize for any wrong things he may have said or done in his past, and said he is no longer that person. this is the FIRST time in US history that ANY president apologized for his behavior. to do this publicly took a lot of courage.

                  I think we should stop dragging him back to his past, that he repented of, and adopt the spirit of forgiveness. if Yahweh has forgiven him, we should also.

                  if we do not forgive, we will not be forgiven.

                  • Marianne, I am happy to hear about this because I had not heard that he apologized for what he has said in the past. Then I will forgive him, too. It seems to me that because he is so active in communicating (Twitter, The Web, etc.), he may have taken to heart the advice he has been given. He’s about my age. You might be surprised how many that are not on the Web and don’t want to be. For me that seems scary for them.


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