Who goes, and who stays?

christ__bride

“Rapture” and “tribulation”: Who goes, and who stays, depends on how much “oil” you have.

Problem:

We are trying to treat all Christians alike.   There seems to be scripture evidence for believers around during the 7 years, tribulation, time of trouble, etc.  But who are they?


Parable of the 10 virgins- do you have the “oil” of the Holy Spirit?:

We forget the parable of the 10 virgins. They were all pure and good, and invited, but only half were ready, and got into the marriage.

Mat 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

Mat 25:2 And five of them were wise, and five [were] foolish.

Mat 25:3 They that [were] foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:

Mat 25:4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

Mat 25:5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

Mat 25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

Mat 25:7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

Mat 25:8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

Mat 25:9 But the wise answered, saying, [Not so]; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut

Mat 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

Mat 25:12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

Parable of the unprofitable servant – are you working for the kingdom, or doing nothing?

Mat 25:14 For [the kingdom of heaven is] as a man travelling into a far country, [who] called his own servants, and delivered unto them his goods.

Mat 25:15 And unto one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one; to every man according to his several ability; and straightway took his journey.
Mat 25:16 Then he that had received the five talents went and traded with the same, and made [them] other five talents.

Mat 25:17 And likewise he that [had received] two, he also gained other two.

Mat 25:18 But he that had received one went and digged in the earth, and hid his lord’s money.

Mat 25:20 And so he that had received five talents came and brought other five talents, saying, Lord, thou delivered unto me five talents: behold, I have gained beside them five talents more.

Mat 25:21 His lord said unto him, Well done, [thou] good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

Mat 25:22 He also that had received two talents came and said, Lord, thou delivered unto me two talents: behold, I have gained two other talents beside them.

Mat 25:23 His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord.

Mat 25:24 Then he which had received the one talent came and said, Lord, I knew thee that thou art an hard man, reaping where thou hast not sown, and gathering where thou hast not strawed:

Mat 25:25 And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth: lo, [there] thou hast [that is] thine.

Mat 25:26 His lord answered and said unto him, [Thou] wicked and slothful servant, thou knewest that I reap where I sowed not, and gather where I have not strawed:

Mat 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Conclusion about the Bride from the 2 parables:

1. the Bride will have the oil of the Holy Spirit. It is to be active and ready.

2. the Bride be using the talents God gave to serve Him. If one is neglectful, doing nothing, or lazy, one is in trouble.

I think the Bride will be raptured.

The church itself, which is unprepared, will be left behind to go through the time of trouble, in order to remove the spots and wrinkles, and to test the faith. They will be with the converting Jews during Jacob’s trouble for the 3 1/2 years. They will either survive, or be martyred.

Concept of the 7 years

We get the concept of the 7 years from Daniel, where there is a final week (7 days = 7 years) that completes a 70 week prophecy.

The time of Jacob’s trouble is 3 ½ years.

The Book of Revelation does not indicate a 7 year time period. We have to realize that the time period being described here may be longer than 7 years. There are first seals, which include wars, famine, death, etc. We are not told how long this lasts. We are then introduced to the 7 trumpets and bowls, in which God’s wrath begins.

The book of Revelation is a repeating set of images, and not everything seems to be in chronological order. For example the beast does not show up until Chapter 13, after god’s wrath begins. To make it more complex, the woman in Chapter 12, which could represent either the Church, Israel , or both is mentioned for 2 periods of 3 ½ years. Do we add them together, to make 7 years, or overlap the time as the same 3 ½?

revelation

Simplifying Revelation

Many include every event in the book of Revelation as part of the “7 years of Tribulation.” In other words, they say the whole book IS the tribulation, and all events occur within 7 years.

What this means is that the Jews, and any remaining untested Christians, have to go through the same torment that the wicked do.

But God has said the righteous are not appointed unto wrath. I believe that much of what we call the tribulation is actually the time of wrath, which is ONLY for the wicked.

So, I divide the book of Revelation into 2 parts:

Trouble

Wrath

*** I am intentionally avoiding the term “tribulation” since that will confuse my meaning.

I believe Jesus returns at the end of Jacob’s trouble, to rescue the believing Jews and tested Christians.

This is the second coming.

Once this is done, the wrath begins, and only the wicked are left on earth to suffer.

four_candles

Back to the Rapture:   Conclusion

1. It is my view that the rapture of the Bride (“the virgins with the oil”), NOT the whole church, will occur before the time of Jacob’s trouble.

2. The other Christians, the “virgins without any oil,” who are not ready, will go through the time of trouble with the Jews. These are the gentiles that will be helping the Jews in their escape to the wilderness during the flood of hate coming from the dragon in Chapter 12.

This is why we see “the church” or “believers” mentioned during the troubled period. They finally wake up, and have to deal with the situation.

There will be a certain degree of protection for all believers during this time – including the believing Jews. Chapter 12 describes a safe place in the wilderness. However, some may be martyred.

3. Jesus, Yeshua, will return at the end of Jacob’s trouble to rescue all who cry out to him. This is the second coming.

4. Once all believers are secure, the time of wrath begins. Only the wicked are tormented and punished, at this time.


Any ideas, or contributions?

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26 Responses to “Who goes, and who stays?”

  1. […] and “tribulation”: Who goes, and who stays, depends on how much “oil” you have. Click here for […]

  2. I don’t believe in the Rapture,Jesus is only going to come back one time, to gather his “church” and Judge each and everyone 29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

    30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

    31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

  3. hi Deb,

    I agree with you. This occurs after the 6th seal. the 7th seal is silence. The rest is called the wrath (trumpets and bowls).

    The way revelation is presented, it is hard to come to this conclusion at first. But by Chapter 7 the believers are in heaven. Some chapters are overlays of the others and not in order.

    You made me think, because I agree with the Matthew passage. I just have to present it in the right way. Maybe I need to rework this. The second coming and the rapture may be the same thing.

    Thanks and blessings
    marianne

    • From what I have gathered I do as well believe we are taken at the 6th seal..and Jesus sends his angels to gather the elect and does not actually come and physically touch the earth and then starts of course pouring out the trumpets, bowls, etc..until the final battle is fought. I have come to the conclusion that possibly the time period once we are taken at the 6th seal from the time the battle at Armaggeden is found could be around a years time give or take as it says in Isaiah 34:8 For is is the day of the Lord’s vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion, and Isaiah 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God, and in Isaiah 63:4 For the day of vengeance is in mine hart, and the year of my redeemed is come. This leads me to believe that the “Day of the Lord” is a year long. Would love to know your thoughts on this.

      • hi Deb

        The bible does not say how long the day of the lord lasts…but a day could be a year here, as you say.

        the 5th trumpet lasts for 5 months….interesting….5 and 5

        Babylon falls in one day.

        The events described in the trumpets should not take long, example, Wormwood falling from the sky.

        In the vials, the events seem limited in time also, for example, it does not take long for God to turn the waters into blood.

        There would be no reason for the saints to be on earth during all this. It is just meant to punish and destroy the wicked.

  4. There does seem to be a dividing line of who goes and who stays behind in the catching up, among the believers. We have Paul’s telling us to pray we are worthy to miss the coming hard times. Then we have the above mention of the 10 virgins.

    There also seems to be the questions of when and how. The how, meaning does the info we get from the Word tell us that when Jesus comes for His Bride, will he stop short of coming to the virtual earth, but only to “in the clouds?” Are we to count that as a coming or not?

    It might be interesting to note the Song of Solomon talks about the groom skipping across the mountain peaks and calling His bride to come up to him and enter the bridal chamber. Is that evidence of a pre Trib. rapture? Does He “come” without actually touching earth?

    We have plenty of evidence that Israel will soon be left friendless in the world. Perhaps a war will cause this to come about, as Israel’s friends would no longer be around to help them. And we see Russia will likely start this war. What a great time to have the rapture occur, even as nuclear missiles are crossing the oceans toward both Russia and the USA.

    If a preTrib rapture happened then, it would fill in the info of why Israel is left without a friend and vulnerable to the anti-christ. The confusion caused by a global war would give him the opportunity to tell the “big lie” and have it believed by the survivors. What else but a lie could explain where all those Christians went? And of course, take the Christians out of the USA and you have a Babylon left. People who like Nimrod, seek to hunt men before God. And what country other than the USA can fit the description of the greatest trading nation ever, that we see ship captains standing off at sea watching it burn in its torment? Perhaps we are trying to see the how and when without bringing in other pertinant info. DavWms

  5. It would seem that the Church consists of believers, and as such it would also seem that were the Rapture to happen, all believers would be taken. Those left behind would not be believers, but through the understanding of what will have happened upon the earth, some will then become saved and will be eventually be with the Church in Heaven whether it is because they are killed by the Anti-Christ, or they actually survive the tribulation, then receive their glorified bodies upon the completion of the 1000 years of Jesus’ reign on earth.

  6. Hi JRA

    It is so good to hear from you. You have been in my prayers. One reason I wrote this, is because half the virgins, who were pure, but not ready did not make it. So they seemed to be believers…but no somehow ready. I guess this will take more thought. I just hope I get to go in the rapture.

    blessings
    marianne

  7. In the 10 virgins parable and talents parable, the left behind are judged. They did not get a second chance to repent. So I believe once rapture occurs there will be no hope for mankind. I think at the 7th trumpet rapture will occur followed by the wrath of God on earth( 7 vials of wrath) followed by public second coming of the Lord. I also think the day of the Lord begins with rapture and ends with Armageddon(second coming). I do not think pre tribulation rapture is mentioned anywhere in the Bible.

    • Hi Golda,

      Your view is also quite prevalent. Matthew 24 does not mention a rapture, but the idea of a rapture comes from an interpretation fo 1 Thess 5:16-17 and 1 Thess 2:1-3.

      Personally, I just put my hope in Jesus for whenever he does come for me.

      blessings
      marianne

    • Golda remember where sin did abound, grace more abounds even in the tribulation. This view that the rapture is the ultinate last act of love,mercy&grace is a little over the top for me! There is going to be a Millenium&righteous survivors of the tribulation go on to, just like Noah&his family after the flood! Yes the Holy Spirit is holding back this evil one-son of perdition however there is revival during the tribulation(tribulation saints). I beleive these saints are the heros of early Millenial society. Remember Daniels image&the feet of iron&clay. If the feet&toes were just 100% all clay this would indicate that Satan/evil/anti-christ/beast ect would be in total absolute control. However the iron is something different&is a form of resistence during this time. Yes God will allow the system of the beast to manifest itself. Also most of the church age of the last 2000 years has rejected theology on the Millenium since the third&fourth centuries,referred to as-“Amillenialism”

      • You are right Marianne. God can and will save even in the very last day if a soul cries out to him. But with the mark of the beast and severe tribulation I wonder how many will turn to God.

  8. I suggest you check out David Jeremiahs teaching on this…The rapture and second coming ARE two different events! The second coming distinctly says that Jesus will come down and His feet will touch the Mount of Olives…Whereas the rapture He will meet the bride of believers in the air… There are many other differences and alot of people get the teo events mixed up, but we clearly must be ready at ALL times because the hour is drawing near and so many believers are STILL SLEEPING! So many os us need to WAKE UP and come out from among the vast population of the ‘world sytstem’ and BE SEPARATE like He has called us to be!

    We need to look, sound, talk and be DIFFERENT and SEPARATE than the way of the worldly people…How can they see Him in us and see His LOVE if we are trying soooo hard to look like the world!?

    I just recently (within the last year) had realized this myself…

    But I also wanted to mention…If your kids are out playing in the street with other neighborhood kids and you see a car start coming, who are you going to scream out to first? YOUR OWN KIDS!

    I think HE is doing the same thing right now, with CALLING us back!

    • Hi Catrina,

      Sometimes i see it one way, then I see it another. people bring up good points.

      I wonder if we get caught up in the air with him, and then we are in the clouds as we watch him come down and stop the battle of Armageddon. Jesus never mentioned a rapture.

      marianne

      • Marianne,
        I’m happy to see you are considering my concept of the 10 day tribulation. I expect that we will never see heaven but will be kept in the clouds for the battle out of harms way. Actually, by that time we will have our new bodies and will be free from any dangers, but even so I don’t think I want to be there for the battle except maybe as a war photographer.
        This brings up an important point. It means we will all have to deal with the mark of the beast and knowing what it is becomes of utmost importance.
        Now if I could just convince everyone that the beast is already here and it is not Muslim. I’m working on that.

  9. Thanks for your prayers for me, Marianne. Back to the issue of the Rapture. We believers will be raptured, which is a separate event from the second coming of Jesus when He returns to begin His 1000 year reign. The problem people run into is where are we after we have been raptured? Well, once we have been caught up in the air with the Lord, all hell breaks loose here on planet earth. This is referred to as the 7 year tribulation. Thanks be to God that we the bride of Christ consisting only of believers will escape this time of terror on earth while the Antichrist is trying to kill every single Jew on the earth and anyone else who refuses to worship him. The events in the Book of Revelation clearly indicate where we are during that 7 years and it even states when we return to the earth with our Savior, Jesus to put an end to the Antichrist’s short rule on earth. Antichrist will be bound in chains and thrown into the bottomless pit for 1000 years, but will be released at the end of the 1000 years for a short while to try yet again to start a rebellion of those who were born on the earth during the 1000 year reign of Christ to those who still have to decide between God or Satan. Why? Because God wants to show that even when He is in the world, the humans who do NOT have glorified bodies as yet will still have to make an eternal choice between heaven or hell. Believe it or not, some will actually choose to follow Satan once again. But this time, when He overcomes the evil one, there will be a new heaven and a new earth and Satan and all the rest of his followers will be cast into the lake of fire forever. May I be forgiven by Him if any or all of my understanding of the issue of the Rapture is wrong. Love and Blessings

  10. I feel scared.

    • Don’t be scared…he will take care of us and if we have to die during he triublation for him he says he will give us the words to say…Luke 21:14-15 he says when we are persecuted….Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer for I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which your adversaries shall nto be able to fainsay nor resist.

  11. As a former early rapturist, I now believe that the rapture occurs at the second coming – the final trump. Christ returns on the feast of trumpets and we meet him in the clouds but we do not come to the earth for another ten days. He spares us from the final battle of Armageddon and we return on Yom Kippur when he takes his throne and begins the reaping & harvesting. After that is accomplished we will participate in the feast of tabernacles and life in the new heaven and earth will begin under the rule of Jesus.
    If you still believe that the church will be raptured just before the Antichrist takes power, I have a dilemma for you.
    As we know the Antichrist comes in peaceably and ushers in world peace for 7 years, but after 42 months the peace is broken and his true nature is revealed.
    Well here is the problem. If most of the world’s Christians disappear all of a sudden it will cause the greatest disaster in history. Planes will crash, utilities will fail with no one to repair them, the infrastructure of countries like the US will crumble. Rioting, looting, turf wars etc. will break out and our enemies will seize the chance to invade and conquer us. It will mean total mayhem, a far cry from world peace. Such an event does not reconcile with scripture of the latter day wars either.
    This scenario was not my idea. I just watched a History channel program “The Nostradamus Effect” which dealt with the rapture last week and this was their conclusion, and I agree with them. It adds a new wrinkle to the early rapture theory in any case. Something to think about.

  12. ummmm….you left me at Hello…LOL I am sooo confused at this point…sorry

    Lyndsey

  13. I just had the most amazing dream that I had to share it here…was trying to find the right post to put it:

    In my dream, I am in the passenger seat of a white truck that my friend (former friend in reality; we haven’t spoken since last summer due to her being involved in witchcraft etc) is driving. We are at the gas station. As we are turning around the corner beside the gas station I see in the sky the most AMAZING Beautiful sight! I saw the sun rays shining thru clouds and the clouds begin to make the formation of a hand. I thought this was so unique and beautiful and told my friend to LOOK, LOOK! I looked over at her and saw that she wasn’t looking at all, granted she was driving, but this was AMAZING! So I jumped out of the truck so that I wouldn’t miss such a beautiful display. I had also seen across the street another group of people, about 3 of them also getting out of their truck to look. Then the display of clouds forming into a hand actually became a real HAND! WOW….While standing there, I notice that the hand points one of its fingers and its pointing at me!!!!! Then I saw the group of people across the street looking up and then one of the ladies with them, wearing green shorts (have no idea why I remembered that) was floating upward. I thought WOW….and then I felt this most awesome tingling sensation go thru out my body (reminded me of when I received the Baptism in the HOly Spirit) and I felt myself being lifted up as well…I then realized what was going on and I looked towards my friend who was now in front of the truck looking at the same thing and I said “its the rapture! Its time! Its time!” I remember the look on her face; she was not happy…and then I thought to myself, “who is going to take care of my dogs” and then I woke up!

  14. Reflecting back on the dream, having noticed that the lady across the street was wearing shorts could be a hint that this will be in the summertime. Yes, Jesus says that noone knows the day or the hour but he doesn’t say we can’t figure out which season. I just thought it was an incredible dream. God answered a few of my questions, one of which was How we would be able to meet Him in the air…when I felt the tingling sensation and remembering the same as I when I received the Holy Spirit, I thought “so this is how He does it” It is thru his Holy Spirit!!

    As a child, my mother and I would talk often about Revelations and the end times. It was told to me by her that the “restrainer” meant the Holy Spirit. So I have always understood the “restrainer” being removed as the Holy Spirit being removed….so I suppose, what we call the “rapture” is actually the Holy Spirit being removed per se in that he is the one responsible for helping us to defy gravity and meet our Lord in the air…just a thought! Its was one of those dreams that was just amazing, felt real and never to forget! However, on a sad note, I keep seeing my friends face….I felt bad for her! I want so much to tell her the time is near but she won’t talk to me; whenever we would talk about Jesus and the Bible she would always argue with me and take a “i know it all” attitude. She supports gay marriages, ghost hunting/contact, tarot cards etc….I simply just don’t know how to get thru to her without the door slammed in my face per se…I do love her and her family and my heart aches for them.

  15. Still thinking about the dream….I wanted to correct what I said about Gods finger pointing at me….when I think about the dream again, I remember Him pointing His finger and then I ran over to where he was pointing so that He would be pointing at me…LOL Needless to say, I still got to go! laughing…

  16. So the Rapture depends on works?

    • Hi ufa,

      For those that believe in the “catching away, gathering, or rapture”, (of which I personally believe is revealed within scripture), I would say that those that will be taken will be those that explicitly trust in Yeshua with all of their hearts, and do their best to walk in the Spirit. “Works” themselves would be a byproduct of walking in the Spirit.

      Be Blessed

    • hi ufa

      no, the rapture depends on your faith and salvation in Jesus.

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