Woman on the Beast has no Blue

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Blue is missing. Why?

The mystery woman is described in her appearance

Rev 17:4

And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Rev 17:5

And upon her forehead [was] a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Her city is described also in terms of commerce:

Rev 18:12

The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,

City of woman again described in colors and fine linen:

Rev 18:16

And saying, Alas, alas, that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

In conclusion, the woman is represented by 3 colors: purple, scarlet, and gold, with fine linen and precious stones.

If the woman’s appearance (purple, scarlet and gold) is compared to what the ancient Hebrew high priest wore, the tabernacle and the gate to the tabernacle, one can see a similarity.

There is a difference also.

The color blue is included in the garments for the tabernacle and the gate.

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(1) The gate into the tabernacle itself had 3 colors, made of fine linen.

The gate (sha’ ar) was also of 3 main colors – also called the “way:”

Exd 38:18 And the hanging for the gate of the court [was] needlework, [of] blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen: and twenty cubits [was] the length, and the height in the breadth [was] five cubits, answerable to the hangings of the court.

Recall that Jesus also called himself “the way:”

Jhn 14:6

Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

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(2) The High Priest wore 3 unique vestments (Exodus 28):

(1) the ephod ,

(2) the breastplate, and

(3) the me’il (the robe).

Purposes given – to remember Israel (in mind), keep Israel in his heart, and to announce the completion of his duty.

With regard to the ephod it states: “Place the two stones on the shoulder pieces of the ephod as remembrance stones for the children of Israel; Aharon shall carry their names on his two shoulders before G-d as a remembrance.”

At the conclusion of the command of the breastplate the it states: “Aharon will thus carry the names of the children of Israel on the decision breastplate over his heart when he enters the Sanctuary; it shall be a constant remembrance before G-d.”

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Concerning the robe it states: “Aharon shall wear it when he performs the service; the sound [of the bells] shall be heard when he enters the Sanctuary before G-d, and when he leaves….”

(3)  Garments of high priest – 4 colors (not 3 like the woman) and fine linen

Exodus 39:1-2

And of the blue, and purple, and scarlet, they made cloths of service, to do service in the holy [place], and made the holy garments for Aaron; as the LORD commanded Moses.

And he made the ephod [of] gold, blue, and purple, and scarlet, and fine twined linen.

The robe of the ephod was also blue

Exd 28:31

And thou shalt make the robe of the ephod all [of] blue.

The pomegranates were also blue, purple, and scarlet, with bells of gold

Exd 28:33

And [beneath] upon the hem of it thou shalt make pomegranates [of] blue, and [of] purple, and [of] scarlet, round about the hem thereof; and bells of gold between them round about:

Exd 28:35

And it shall be upon Aaron to minister: and his sound shall be heard when he goes in unto the holy [place] before the LORD, and when he cometh out, that he die not.

(4) Precious stones

Regarding precious stones on the woman, the exact ones and number of them is not mentioned, only that they are present.

However, comparing tot ancient descriptions of the holy and unholy, we can also see a difference.

The ephod had 12 precious stones:

The stones on the true Ephod are found in Exodus 28:17-21.

Here are the stones as they are listed there.
Row #1: Sardius, Topaz, Carbuncle
Row #2: Emerald, Sapphire, Diamond
Row #3: Ligure, Agate, Amethyst
Row #4: Beryl, Onyx, Jasper

However, the counterfeit priest – Lucifer – has an incomplete set- only 9:

Ezekiel 28:13 describes the stones that the Ephod of Lucifer has and 3 are missing.

There is NO pattern to the laying out of the stones as to Row’s.

They are simply described.

Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone [was] thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou was created.

Lucifer has 9 of the 12 stones – the Sardius, Topaz, Diamond, Beryl, Onyx, Jasper, Sapphire, Emerald, Carbuncle laid IN GOLD – a false divinity, a false religion.


Lucifer lacks the Ligure, Agate, and the Amethyst.

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Blue is missing from the woman

So, the garments of the high priest include purple, scarlet, and blue, but blue is notably absent in the description of the woman of Revelation 17:

Rev 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

The Bible even tells us the spiritual meaning of the color blue – obedience to God’s commandments:

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Num 15:38 Speak unto the children of Israel, and bid them that they make them fringes in the borders of their garments throughout their generations, and that they put upon the fringe of the borders a ribbon of blue:

Num 15:39 And it shall be unto you for a fringe, that ye may look upon it, and remember all the commandments of the LORD, and do them; and that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a whoring:

Deu 22:12 Thou shall make thee fringes upon the four quarters of thy vesture, wherewith you covers thyself.

The fringes, or borders, of the prayer garment, which contain the blue thread, also represent the Messiah, the healer:

Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

The Hebrew word for “wings” is kanaph:

1) wing, extremity, edge, winged, border, corner, shirt

a) wing

b) extremity

1) skirt, corner (of garment)

Meaning of the 4 colors and the 4 gospels

Blue – Son of God – Messiah (John)

Purple – King (Matthew)

Red/ Scarlet – Savior (Luke)

Gold – holiness unto the Lord, perfect Son of Man  (Mark)

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Why woman is missing the blue

The woman is a false, or incomplete, religion.

It presents itself as from God (divine), and having the authority of a king and even a “savior,” but it sheds blood, rather than being covered by it, in Jesus name.

It presents an incomplete ephod (precious stones) to the world.

It denies that Jesus is the son of God, and Messiah, thus denying the power of God.

It disobeys God and his commandments. It is lacking in its duty to God.

It does not keep Israel in remembrance as it comes before the Lord.

Blue is the universal symbol of heaven and the sea, calmness, peace. Blue is seen as trustworthy, dependable, and committed.

But, whatever interpretation is assigned to the color, the woman is still missing something in the complete “wardrobe” of God.

She may appear righteous, and have power, but she lacks Jesus, so lacks the “way” to heaven.

She is an incomplete “priest.”

Remember the tabernacle gate to the presence of God also had blue, purple and red.

Unless the gate is complete, or you have the right gate, one cannot enter the tabernacle.

Unless we have Jesus, son of God, as savior, we cannot enter heaven, and come before the Father.

Jesus is the only “way.”


138 Responses to “Woman on the Beast has no Blue”

  1. This is amazing, I love it. However, your final comment is that we need Jesus…seems to me that the conclusion of your study based on everything you presented would have been that Christians need the Torah/obedience to Yahweh’s commandments…that Christianity is the “incomplete religion”. They believe in Yeshua, yet deny his Word/instructions. I have no doubt in my mind that somehow, we who obey Torah AND believe in the saving grace of Yeshua, will be targeted by “Christians” in the tribulation – I have heard many already accuse us of having lost salvation, fallen from grace. Anyway, excellent study. God bless.

  2. Jesus said he came to fulfill the LAW.. He did this with the two love laws…One is love god with your everything and the other is love your neighbor as yourself.. If these are obeyed there are no other laws needed…

    Hebrews 8-6 through 13…says it best… and 2 Corinthians 3..

    Matthew 23-35 through 40….These two laws fulfill the old covenant laws…

    • Blessings Ruth. It is important to realize that Jesus quoted those two commandments from the old testament law in Deuteronomy, they are not new commandments. In fact the OT scriptures warned us how to know who a false prophet was…we are told that if someone’s prophecies, miracles, dreams, signs etc. come true but they teach us not to obey God’s commandments the are false prophets. We were told not to add to or take away from YHVH’s commandments. Jesus, who is YHVH in flesh, quoted from the Law the two commandments you shared. Jesus said He did not come to do away with the law. Meaning the law is not done away. He then repeated Himself and said once again that He did not come to do away with the law but to fulfill it. I’m sure we all realize that there is much more to be fulfilled in the law in the future…like the second coming and the millenium! As Jesus said, heaven and earth will pass away but my words will never pass away. Jesus is God and God’s word is eternal. Psalm 119 tells us the very law itself is eternal. Jesus quoted the two commandments from His own law…Jesus is YHVH in flesh the law giver, judge, and righteous Savior full of grace to those who repent and believe His good news. Amen to our Great God and Savior, Jesus Christ!!

  3. liz
    My opininion is that apart from grace, we cannot obey the Torah. It is only through the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit that we are able to obey with a pure heart. That should be the Goal of our walk with God. Jesus is the ONLY way to accomplish this! Galations 2:15-21 Talks of this distinction.

    Righteousness is different from obedience. Righteousness is what we are to strive for, which can only be accomplished by faith in Jesus, and God’s grace. I hope you understand this distinction?

    • Hi…yes there is a distinction. Abraham believed, and it was credited to him as righteousness. Believing is a deep thing though…truly believing leads to the desire to follow and obey as much as we possibly can…truly believing in what Yeshua has done for us will naturally lead us to want to do exactly what He would want us to do, and to walk as He walked as much as possible.

      In the “renewed covenant”, the change is that now the commands are written on our hearts…and we have the Holy Spirit to convict us directly of our sin, to guide us into all truth.

      Although for years I thought I was doing my best as a believer, there was something missing. When Yahweh showed me how He wanted his people to keep his Sabbath day holy, and I started doing that…my heart was opened to a whole new paradigm/level of understanding of the Bible. It’s like, finally eating meat! The Constantine church made so many anti-semitic changes to the faith…that for 2000 years Christians have not even realized how much of what they think is rooted not in the Word, but in paganism and anti-semitism. Not their fault, it’s what they were taught, and they, and I , did their best with the knowledge they had/have. But there is so much more! Truly, it’s all about GRACE AND OBEDIENCE — together as originally intended by Yahweh will lead to sanctification, by the power of His Spirit.

      Bless you.

      • Liz
        Well said. I have no problem with what day people keep as the sabbath so long as you do it to God’s glory. Christians are called to be a “holy priesthood” and to do the Lord’s work all days of the week.

        So long as your sabbath worship, does not bring division to the church, and my opinion cause you division, then I accept your view. My sticking point is that many who believe in keeping the sixth day sabbath condemn those who do not, and hold to my view.

        I say this fully understanding the paganism of Sunday worship. My point being that culture dictates what day we can worship. In those cultures righteousness is not denied to those who worship on Sunday, or Friday, or whatever day it might be. As Christians all days are holy. Nor is it denied for a slave who has no choice in the matter.

        Jesus also gave us a new commandment, To love one another as he Loved us. When you or me, or any of us can accomplish this, Let me know, cause then we can boast. Apart from grace this is unobtainable.

        • I understand your point, and I do agree that if we as believers disagree on an issue, we are to put forth our views in love, and not in condemnation. You are so right, loving one another is hard work, and we all fail so miserably so often!

          Ok, so that said, here is where we would disagree (in love!) — although we are of course to worship God every day of the week (as were the Israelites/Jews too by the way), the Sabbath day is meant to be even more, it is a set apart day, it is the 7th day of creation on which YHWH rested and sanctified this day as holy. It also signifies the millenial reign, if each day is as a thousand years. It is meant for man to rest from creating, to focus on YHWH and our families and His creation. For millenia it was always on the 7th day, and is still observed on the 7th day for Jews. Only the constantine church changed the day, with no scriptural reason to do so. I cannot speak for YHWH as to how he would view this transgression/change, so I do not condemn someone who insists on “observing the sabbath” on Sunday. However, i’d just ask them, “why?” Why not change to the day YHWH originally commanded, what is so hard about doing that? What can it hurt? I guess what i’d really encourage people to do is to just pray about it. It was important enough to be in the Big 10, right up there with idolatry and murder…so just pray and ask Him if he cares if you observe it on Saturday or Sunday. Cutlurally, you’re right, it’s hard to observe on Saturday. I don’t spend money on this day, I don’t do major worklike tasks, so it requires planning ahead. But, it’s doable, and it’s such a blessing to have PERMISSION to completely rest for a full 24 hours, wihtout guilt! Most people who, even if in their mind they say they are observing the Sabbath on Sunday, what this usually means is they go to church on that day, and perhaps spend more time w/ family and God — but i’d hazard a guess that for MOST, that is the extent of it…if they have chores to do, they will do them, if they need groceries, they’ll go get them. Thus, the day is not really wholly set apart, and they do not reap the benefits either.

          The other piece I just want to mention is that there are some good reasons why the Jews have not accepted Christianity…mainly due to its history of anti-semitism, and changing all the Feasts and Sabbaths, basically denying the Torah, which they know they are to keep. And we all are — as His people, whether of Israel or grafted in to the vine…we are One, we are HIS, and there were never meant to be two separate rulebooks for us!! We are all to believe in the Messiah, and to keep his commands. This is no more clearly stated than in Revelation 12:17:
          Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring — those who obey God’s commandments and hold to the testimony of Yeshua.

          Shalom.

          • liz
            To simply answer your question, the Holy Spirit has not led me to Worship on Saturday…yet.
            You say sabbath worship goes back to Genesis, and yes I understand that “God rested”. But why after the flood of Noah is Sabbath worship not mentioned, with Laws given to Noah?
            I Understand the “Physical benefits” of keeping the Sabbath, But these benefits would be there whatever day we keep.

            As for your last point, I think you need to read Acts and the Gospels again. The Sabbath and the feasts had little if anything to do with the Jewish rejection of Jesus. They wanted Jesus Killed because he said that he is God incarnate. This is a violation of the first commandment had this not been true, and they could not by faith accept this. This rejection is still on going. Yes this has led to anti-semitism in the church, and undoubtedly to moving the day of the sabbath.

            The verse you quoted, remember says those who do both, Obey the commandments, and Hold to the testimony of Jesus. What was the “testimony” of Jesus? That he was God. If he was not God, or a human exalted to godhood, he commited the sin of blasphemy, and he did not lead a perfect life. Hence his sacrifice on the cross was insufficient. The Jewish people have rejected this testimony. As has all false religions. But many “false” religions have embraced the ten commandments.

            The point of the commandments was to convict man of sin and lead to repentence. This is also the point of Jesus’ New commandment. If we are honest, we are incapable of loving as Jesus loved us, and forgiving as he has forgiven us. It is a higher standard which we are to strive for, but not one we can attain. As were the original ten commandments. The whole point of the commandments was to keep us humble, not to lead us to exalt ourselves as better than others. For when we exalt ourselves, we have made ourselves More than man and made ourselves a god, a violation of the Law. (idolotry) That is the beauty of the Law. Apart from God, it is a circle of perpetuating our sinfullness.

            I hope this answers your question.

            • I love that the two of you are reasoning together in love. Only in Christ can this be done!

              I am adding a note of potential interest. Scripture says Sabbath will be celebrated in the Millennial Kingdom. This can only mean one of two things: Sabbath *was* a commandment, was then a *done-away- with* commandment, and will be a *reinstated* commandment…OR….it means the Sabbath commandment is *forever* and *perpetual* (without interruption). Wouldn’t it be awesome if scripture said this one way or the other…..outright…in direct wording?!

              The answer is the scripture DOES tell us whether or not the Sabbath is *interrupted* or *perpetual*.

              One other interesting fact is that Sabbath is it’s ‘own’ covenant with it’s own promises and blessings. In fact, the Foreigners/Gentiles were invited by YHVH to join the Sabbath covenant—this covenant wasn’t just for Israel/Jews. There were specific promises made to Gentiles/Foreigners who kept the Sabbath covenant. Is this Sabbath covenant in the past only? Looking at the particular promises made to Gentiles who keep the covenant of Sabbath tells us the answer.

              Blessings to All believers in Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior, King of kings and Lord of lords.

            • “The point of the commandments was to convict man of sin and lead to repentence.” Amen! Let us look at the commandments, assess which ones we are transgressing, *repent* of that, and with the Holy Spirit within us begin to follow YHWH’s ways instead of our own reasoning.

              The idea that we can pick any day to be Sabbath (who are we to do that?) when God has thoroughly and repeatedly stated the specific day it is and the reason why it is that day, is a little like a parent telling his child to be in by a certain time and the child arguing, “Why? What difference does it make? I can sleep late tomorrow…” etc. I think we parents all know what it feels like when our children argue with us rather than simply doing what we ask. *We know better than them as the parent.* Mine are not rewarded for that…in fact I take away privileges from them.

              Let us simply obey. Blessings to everyone on here.🙂

              • Sissy
                Seems like your saying you are better than those who do not obey the fourth commandment. As Jesus said, “Let him who has no sin cast the first stone”
                I am not making an excuse, I just have not been led to that.
                God Bless

                • It’s interesting that you are saying that, because I noticed you say as much to Liz earlier.

                  I never said or implied that I am better. Nor do I believe that. I simply drew an apt comparison. If it disturbed you, then maybe you might consider why.

                  I am nothing without Jesus Christ. I am not perfect. But I sure do love my Savior and so I sure do want to obey.

                  God bless you in your walk.

                • I think sissy is just advocating obeying the commandments. and not try to make exceptions.

                  • Marianne
                    I am not making an exception. Read my comments to Al below. and then comment.

                  • Thanks Marianne.🙂 That is really it.

                    dru, you said, “I could also quote a whole bunch of verses that support sunday worship from the new testament.”

                    It seems like you’re saying there are opposing texts that might cancel each other out in the Bible. But we know that it is all true.

                    God is clear that the Sabbath (day of physical rest) is the 7th day of the week. The New Testament shows the body of believers gathering every day of the week. Conclusion: it is both good to gather every day, and it is good to keep the Sabbath (rest) on the 7th day.

                    God gives us the power to obey or not to obey. Don’t let the devil tell you otherwise. God would not tell us to do something and not give us the power by His Spirit in us to do it. This in no way would be a credit to me since it is still He in me working what is good. And there is NO way He would condemn anyone for obeying in Christ Jesus.

                    Someone once asked me a similar question to the one you posed here when the topic of lying came up – they said that lying is okay in certain circumstances, and brought up an emotion-provoking, life or death example. My answer is that lying is a sin, and my hope is that I would not do it. I also sincerely believe that our God of miracles would give me another way. There are many examples throughout history such as people seeing bodyguards surrounding houses when no bodyguards were there (angels🙂 ). Satan would love for us to think that obedience is a fleshly action and sin is necessary at times.

                    I think sometimes we can look so deeply at something so simple. *I know it says to do this, but if I do, will I be doing it out of this motivation or out of that…?* No. It is really this simple: if God says to do something – do it. If He says not to do something – don’t do it.

                    “But by his grace and the blood of Jesus I am forgiven of that sin.”

                    I just want to caution you here in sincere love – you are forgiven of a sin when you repent of it. It is one thing not to know whether something is sin yet. We are saved by grace through faith, and after that we begin a relationship in which we gradually learn God’s wishes. But to learn what sin is and then wait to see if you are led to stop doing it?… Sometimes I feel led to ignore my wedding vows. The Word of God is something concrete for me to go by. My feelings can lead me down a wide, dangerous path.

                    I didn’t keep Sabbath for the first 16 or so years of my relationship with Jesus. When I learned that it was still here and that He asked me in His Word to remember it, I began to keep it, and it has been a tremendous blessing. It is one I believe the enemy does not want God’s people to be aware of, so he makes it appear restricting or not applicable, etc. But the whole time I didn’t keep Sabbath, I was saved and I loved God with all my heart, soul, mind, and strength – as I’m sure you do. I am no more saved now that I keep it than I was when I didn’t.

                    So I hope you know that I am not your judge. We all have One Judge. He just wants us to be healthy, happy, and fruitful as possible, and He tells us how that can happen. To me, that is all the Law is.

                    I will pray for you, please pray for me.🙂

            • Shalom – I only have time for a quick response. Regarding Noah, I believe based on assumption, that he knew all of the laws, including the Sabbath command as these would have been passed down from Adam and Eve. We see that he knew of “clean vs unclean” animals, and he made burnt offerings. After the Israelites were freed from Egypt, YHWH chose to write his commands on tablets of stone…but I doubt if they were new, but had likely been forgotten/watered down through the years. Here is the command about the Sabbath from Exodus 20::
              8 Remember the sabbath day, and keep it holy.
              9 For six days you shall labour and do all your work.

              10 But the seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God; you shall not do any work—you, your son or your daughter, your male or female slave, your livestock, or the alien resident in your towns.

              11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but rested the seventh day; therefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and consecrated it.

              I can kind of understand the Christian mindset of “I haven’t been led to do this or that…” but… this isn’t necessarily an OPTION. It’s a command. Do you need to feel “led” not to lie or murder or commit idolatry or covet etc? So I would respectfully submit that this be an area of priority in prayer…Christianity has watered down this commandment as if it is less important than the others somehow. However, the contrary may be true based on how repeatedly God mentions the Sabbath, and talks over and over about how his people have “desecrated his Sabbaths”, etc.

              I agree that modern Jews mostly reject the Messiah, and it was the Pharisees who ordered Messiah killed. Remember though, that there were thousands of Jews who believed in Yeshua (3000 on Pentecost, and many more since!) But my point was that, since the time of Constantine and the Catholic church, trying to lead Jews to faith in the Messiah would be so difficult given that in essence Christianity began presenting a NEW religion (rather than a continuation of the old), one in which they should give up Friday to Saturday Shabbat, stop observing the feasts and now celebrate Christmas and Easter etc. And they know that THEIR MESSIAH would NOT do such things! And they are absolutely RIGHT! He would not and did not. That is what I meant. I believe that as more and more believers begin to realize that we in fact ought to be observing these things as YHWH’s people, our testimony will ring more true and lead more of them to faith in their Messiah.

              Bless you on your journey with our King.

              • Liz and Sissy
                I am not condemning you for holding the sabbath on the seventh day. I could also quote a whole bunch of verses that support sunday worship from the new testament. I am taking a different approach here in saying that righteousness is different from legalism (strict adherence to the Law). I used the example before, of people in Germany who stowed and hid Jews from the persecution. they had to lie to the authorities, steal extra food, or even defend themselves and take someone’s life. Obviously these people were breaking the Law. Would you do the same? Righteousness comes from our relationship with God. It is Only through the sanctifying work of the HS that we can obey the law with a pure heart. I have not been led by the HS to obey that Law yet. In that respect I am a sinner as we all are. Right now, however, obedience to this law is being used by the self-righteous to “look down” on other sinners. (I am not accusing any of this here and now). I do not tolerate this, as I was amongst those self righteous who obeyed the Law and looked down on others. The Lord rescued me from this sin, in the process, I learned to be led by the HS to change my life, so that there is no way possible for me to take credit for the changes in me. (sanctification) I have nothing to boast about besides his work in me.

                In that respect, he has changed me from one who lived by the flesh to one who is overcoming the flesh. Without any “effort” on my part, I have turned from drinking, drugs, adultery and pornography, dishonesty, self-righteousness, pride, greed, ….etc. This is Spirit led sanctification, as I have absolutely no desire to go back. Someday, perhaps he will lead me to worship on the sabbath as well, or not eat pork, or what have you. But that will be his work in me, not something I can take credit for. I am not making an excuse for sin. I am saying that I am a sinner. But by his grace and the blood of Jesus I am forgiven of that sin. This is the only way to obey the law with a pure heart, and not exalt ourselves in doing so. (phariseeism) If you cannot understand this, then perhaps your obedience is not Led by the HS.

                Until the church is “cleaned” of this phariseeism, it will not act as One, and receive the power which is given us when we become one body. Righteousness, and not strict adherence is what we should strive for.

                Liz, You said “Do you need to feel led to not lie….?” My answer, yes. when we break one commandment, we are guilty of breaking them all. When we obey them all out of an impure heart, we are breaking them all. The sanctifying work of the HS is never done, till we receive our new bodies. Till then we will continue to struggle with sin.

                In that respect, I am no better than any of you, We are all sinners. PERIOD. We must walk with God, and be sanctified by his grace, through the HS. This is the narrow way. This is the road that leads to righteousness. The sooner that we come to terms with our depravity, and can admit it amongst each other, the sooner we as one body can overcome. This is not just a “woe is me confession” in church, but a heartfelt understanding That our best efforts to live by the law only lead to more sin. That is fallen human nature.

                • dru – praise Yahweh for delivering you from your former lifestyle and sins! He is so good! It’s a journey, and we are to obey what we know He is tellling us, and you’re right that even if it is in black and white what we are to do…if we are ONLY doing it to be “obedient” and not because we love Him and WANT to obey in everything, then it is simply legalism. Still, sometimes we just need to obey, and the feelings will follow…but we should never think our obedience gets us points if it is done without love for our Saviour. I can tell that you are a true disciple of our Lord, just keep on following Him, and I think the Spirit might just eventually nudge you to keep the Sabbath (wink), among other things. I also agree there are indeed times when it is ok to break a rule, if it is to save a life primarily, as you mentioned those who lied to save Jews in the holocaust. The disciples took food from the fields on the Sabbath b/c they were so hungry. Also, Rahab lied and it was not punished as sin. But, these are exceptions. Just because they could break a rule under an extreme circumstance, did not mean they should not keep the rules the rest of the time. We all fail. We can only overcome by the power of His Spirit — let’s seek to overcome and ask for His help! Bless you in Yeshua.

              • Liz
                Adam had only one “command” Not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. You will not see any mention of the sabbath in Genesis.

                • So because it’s not there in writing, you KNOW that Yahweh did not teach Adam and Eve his rules? i can’t say that I know it either, but I do feel strongly that he most likely did teach them to keep the sabbath, esp when we see that they knew about clean and unclean (noah), bringing offerings to Yahweh (Cain and Abel).

                  • Liz
                    It does say that Adam and eve had no knowledge of good or evil. This implies no law. What “laws” were instated after the fall, It does not say. They had no knowledge of Murder till Cain killed Abel. And Moses did invoke the sabbath before the law was given with regard to the manna from heaven. My opinion, therfore is that it was instated sometime after the fall, and quite possibly after Noah’s covenent. Obviously you would think it would have been mentioned to Noah?

                    A mystery we may have to find an answer for at some time in the Future!

                    • Hi Dru,
                      I agree there would be no reason for Laws concerning sin before the fall. However, the 7th day Sabbath is more like a way of life as I see it…God consecrated/sanctified the day as holy after he worked for 6 days, so why wouldn’t he instruct his first humans that they are to do their food gathering and whatever other “work” (probably more like what we would call “fun”!) for 6 days and then rest as he did? More like an instruction for living than a command that if they broke at that time would lead to death. Of course, I can’t back it up with scripture…but it seems logical. Then, perhaps because it was so important to Yah and he knew WE needed it, he made it a command among the 10. You’re absolutely right, it will remain a mystery for now! I had not thought about it much till now, i’ll have to ponder this one some more! Shalom.

  4. Marianne
    I never made that connection with the Tabernacle and the Woman riding the beast! Nicely done. The meaning of the four colors is what i am curious about? where did that come from? I think Mark’s Gospel does not deal with the divinity of Christ, so much as John’s gospel. Every false religion that I have dealt with, has a problem with Christ’s Divinity. My opinion is that this should be in the “blue” box? At least that is my take on it.

  5. Hi Ruth — actually you are misinterpreting His words, as well as leaving out the first half of the verse:
    Matthew 5:17-19:
    “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. Truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

    He did not say “I have not come to abolish them but to ABOLISH them” — if what you are saying is true, then he came to abolish them. The word “fulfill” in this context means more like “expand, make clear, bring into focus” — Yeshua IS the Torah, He created all and they are His commandments/instructions. If we are to follow him and do what he did, we would do well to keep Saturday Sabbath, observe His feasts, and do our best to obey his commandments, and as it says in 1 John 5:3, “This is love for God; to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome”.

    Regarding the two commandments you mentioned. First of all, it does seem as though you know that these commands are also in the Torah.
    Deuteronomy 6:5:
    Love YHWH your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength”
    Leviticus 19:18
    Do not seek revenge or bear a gudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. i am YHWH”

    Yeshua said that these 2 commands sum them all up, because they do. All of the other laws/commands fit into one of these two categories–they are either rules about how to love YHWH, or how to love our neighbor. But he wasn’t saying we didn’t need to keep his rules anymore. That’s kind of like saying that here in the United States, we have a governing principle that we are free to pursue life, liberty, and happiness — so we don’ t need any more rules. No, we have literally thousands of rules and laws we obey every day as citizens in order to best allow each of us to pursue life and liberty and happiness. Do we say, OH, those rules are too much to bear?

    So,how does God say to love/honor HIM? Well, there are many ways, primarily by keeping his decrees (read Psalm 19 and psalm 119). One of those is to keep His Sabbath day holy — do a study on this and it will blow you away! To start, it is the fourth commandment of the big 10. Then, read Isaiah 58:13-14. We love our neighbor when we don’t lie, steal, covet, murder etc.

    May Yahweh bless you as you dig deeper into the true meaning of passages in the scriptures! Please remember, I am not saying we are not saved by the grace of Yeshua, by his shed blood and resurrection. We are. But to then obey him, to follow him, to be his true disciples…we need to do as he did. What woudl Jesus do?? He would obey the Torah perfectly, and we should do our best. (the written Torah – not the “works of the law” which refers to the oral Torah that the Pharissses put on people and which was a burden too great…these are of not Yah’s rules and we are not bound to obey them).

    Shalom,
    Liz

  6. Please, before any further discussion about this issue with me…I ask people to watch the above video. It so excellently summarizes this issue of the law and obedience. Thanks! YHWH bless you!

    And, go back to Marianne’s observation that the blue color is missing in the woman on the beast, and that blue is the color of remembering the Torah. I think this is so significant..and I’m so grateful that she brought this to our attention!

    • Liz,

      One of the first verses that this video above utilizes to substantiate it’s point, is 1 John 3:4.

      ” Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.” KJV.

      The first thing that must be established within the above verse, is what is the point of reference.
      Would it be “sin” or would it be “law”?

      Therefore to fully comprehend the context, an individual must then investigate what proceeds and follows this particular verse. Correct?

      Verse 3, ” And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.”

      This would imply that those that have their hope in Yeshua, do there best to cleanse themselves and become pure as He is pure. This then would be relevant to that of “sin” being the topic of discussion, or point of reference.

      Verses 5 and 6, “And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.”

      Again these verses confirm the topic as being “sin” which now then, allows us to establish the correct context.

      With having attained that determination, lets look at the original text, to fully understand what Paul is saying.
      Transliterated it would read in the following manner;

      “pas poieō hamartia anomia poieō kai anomia: kai hamartia esti anomia.”

      As you and others can see, there happens to be a lot of repetitive words, which have obviously been translated into English differently. Therefore it now becomes a requirement, if we are diligently seeking the truth of the Word to then investigate the definitions of these words.

      “pas”
      1) individually.

      a) each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything.

      2) collectively.

      a) some of all types.

      “poieō”

      1) to make

      a) with the names of things made, to produce, construct, form, fashion, etc.

      b) to be the authors of, the cause

      c) to make ready, to prepare

      d) to produce, bear, shoot forth

      e) to acquire, to provide a thing for one’s self

      f) to make a thing out of something

      g) to (make i.e.) render one anything

      1) to (make i.e.) constitute or appoint one anything, to appoint or ordain one that

      2) to (make i.e.) declare one anything

      h) to put one forth, to lead him out

      i) to make one do something

      1) cause one to

      j) to be the authors of a thing (to cause, bring about)

      2) to do

      a) to act rightly, do well

      1) to carry out, to execute

      b) to do a thing unto one

      1) to do to one

      c) with designation of time: to pass, spend

      d) to celebrate, keep

      1) to make ready, and so at the same time to institute, the celebration of the passover

      e) to perform: to a promise

      “hamartia”

      1) equivalent to 264

      a) to be without a share in

      b) to miss the mark

      c) to err, be mistaken

      d) to miss or wander from the path of uprightness and honour, to do or go wrong

      e) to wander from the law of God, violate God’s law, sin

      2) that which is done wrong, sin, an offence, a violation of the divine law in thought or in act

      3) collectively, the complex or aggregate of sins committed either by a single person or by many

      “anomia”

      1) the condition of without law

      a) because ignorant of it

      b) because of violating it

      2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

      “kai”

      1) and, also, even, indeed, but.

      “esti”

      1) “he/she/it is” (third person singular of ‘to be’)

      This above list would then include all of the definitions used for the words that are in that particular verse. Therefore since we have established that the context of this verse is that of “sin” we can now then translate what is being said within a more easily understood and familiar vernacular. Perhaps in the following manner.

      “Everyone, whatever individual that commits sin and wanders from the path of uprightness and honour, whether being ignorant, or willfuly commits iniquity or wickedness, is violating God’s law. For iniquity and wickedness is not of God and that individual is deserving of comtempt.”

      The word “law” therefore which is utilized within this particular verse, should not be simply associated as referring specifically to that of Torah. For there is more than ample scripture to utilize as evidence that states the exact opposite and as being contrary to do so.

      Doctrine has been established clearly within scripture. As scripture clearly indicates, the Apostles were constantly war faring with those of the circumcision whose mission was to corrupt the Way. I urge you to reconsider the path that you are on.

      Be Blessed

      • My point to everybody is to not solely depend upon a translation of the Word itself. Be diligent and investigate the original text.
        Be Berean’s.

  7. Hi Marianne,
    I’m glad to see you have discovered the link from the color blue to obeying the commandments. I’m not sure where the verses are but I watched a lecture long ago that taught that the original tablets the commandments were on – the ones that God himself provided to Moses, came from His fiery chariot and were blue in color. These are the ones that Moses broke in anger and the replacement stones were hewn from local rock.
    This confirms that the color blue represents obedience to God’s laws. The term true blue refers to being true to the commandments.
    We know that the false prophet attempted to change laws and times – removing the 2nd commandment and moving the fourth. It is yet another hint as to the mark of the beast. The beast kingdom is the Vatican and its mark is a mark of authority – the so-called authority to change the laws of God. The Mark of the Beast is simply a ploy by Satan to get God’s people to break His laws and to not believe that God cares any more if we keep them or not. But Revelation tells us that those who do not have the mark (and the 7 last plagues) are those who “keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
    Christ did not tell anyone that the laws are revoked. Unfortunately the translators chose some words that might be interpreted incorrectly by those people who wish to use them to bolster a point.
    Yes there will be a tribulation and there will be a test. We will be tested for our faith and our obedience. Same as for the Jews in the Old Testament. Some will pass, others will fail. Its the Christians turn to be tried. Some will be tried and true – true blue. Will you?

    • hi James

      It says, if we love him, we will keep his commandments.

      I do not look forward to any test, especially since past tests have been horrible, but I intend to do all I can to “pass” again.

      I will do this with the Lords’ help, because without him, I can do nothing.

    • Hi James,

      According to Jewish midrash, the original tablets that were written by “the finger of God” (Ex. 31:18) were made of “blue sapphire” (which was believed to be a symbol of the heavens and God’s throne.)
      The Hebrew letters themselves were said to be fully bored through the sapphire stone. (Ex.32:15)

      This was a miracle in itself, because the inner portion of some of the Hebrew letters, such as the “Samekh” and the final “Mem” would have “floated”, suspended in place on there own. As well, it is held within midrash that though the letters were bored fully through, no matter which side of the stones that you happened to be looking at, the text would be legible, and identical to the other side.

      However you state above, ” The term true blue refers to being true to the commandments.”

      I am sorry, but believe this statement to be incorrect.
      The term “true blue” is more than likely derived from “Coventry, England in the late middle ages.
      The dyers of fabrics in Coventry, had a strong reputation for producing material that didn’t fade with washing,
      (i.e. it remained ‘fast’ or ‘true’.) The phrase ‘as true as Coventry blue’ originated then.
      This reputation regarding Coventry’s standing was recorded in 1670 by John Ray in the first edition of A Compleat Collection of English Proverbs: Below is an excerpt from that publication.

      “Coventry had formerly the reputation for dying of blues; insomuch that true blue became a Proverb to signifie one that was always the same and like himself.”

      I also see no Biblical foundation whatsoever for you to make the following statement either;
      “I’m glad to see you have discovered the link from the color blue to obeying the commandments.”

      Instead I see this as grasping at anything, to somehow add it as supportive evidence to what it is that you believe, rather than having your beliefs being created by what it is that God Himself says.

      This is evident by your other comment. “Christ did not tell anyone that the laws are revoked. Unfortunately the translators chose some words that might be interpreted incorrectly by those people who wish to use them to bolster a point.”

      By stating this you are placing the Word, (God’s word) in question.
      With the technology that is available today, the original text, (either that of Hebrew, or Greek) and their definitions, can be easily accessed and understood.

      “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:” 2 Timothy 3:16. KJV.

      “Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.” 2 Peter 1:20 KJV.

      I believe in proving my point.
      The words “private interpretation” there are derived from the Greek “idios and epilusis” respectively.
      The definitions of “idios” are “pertaining to one’s self, one’s own, belonging to one’s self.”
      The definitions of “epilusis” are “a loosening, unloosing, or in the metaphoric sense, interpretation.”

      This appears to me to be made quite clear within its translation. I don’t see this possibly being misunderstood at all by anyone who is of sound mind.

      Therefore I will close for now with the following scripture comprised of God’s word, which the Apostle Paul stressed as being of the utmost importance.

      “6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before , so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received , let him be accursed. 10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. 11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. Galatians 1:6-12. KJV.

      Those who have ears?

      Be Blessed

  8. Great point about the missing blue color! I had not noticed this. Wow. I know who it sounds like to me when I read the old testament descriptions of who has all the rest of the colors. Great study! Thank you!

  9. Just thought I would put this out there. Short on time right now:

    “The basis for understanding more about Jewish prayer shawls is found in Numbers 15
    37 The LORD said to Moses, 38 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘Throughout the generations to come you are to make tassels on the corners of your garments, with a blue cord on each tassel. 39 You will have these tassels to look at and so you will remember all the commands of the LORD, that you may obey them and not prostitute yourselves by going after the lusts of your own hearts and eyes. 40 Then you will remember to obey all my commands and will be consecrated to your God. 41 I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt to be your God. I am the LORD your God.’ ”
    So the key is to remember that the tassels are to remind them of God, His law, His authority, and that He is watching over them. The tassels on the corner of their cloaks is the origin of Jewish Prayer shawls.”

    Will comment more when I have a chance.

    Be Blessed in Mashiach

  10. Hi Marianne and all,

    Without going into to much detail, here are just three reasons from Scripture, off the top of my head that would show that Israel is not and cannot be Mystery Babylon. We need to study the whole word of God before intorducing or coming to these interpretations:

    1. The seven heads are seven hills upon which the woman sits.
    (Rev.17:9)

    A. Israel is not known for being the city who sits upon seven hills, Rome is.

    2. The woman you saw is that great city that rules over the kings of the earth. (Rev.17:18)

    A. At the time that the angel was giving John this information, Rome was the city that ruled over the kings of the earth, hands down, no agrument.

    3. God puts it into the heart of the beast and the ten kings to destroy the woman with fire and the result is that there will be no more human activity in that city whatsoever, no music, no sound of bride and bridegroom, no workman of any trade, no light of a lamp will ever again shine in her.
    (Rev.17:15-17)

    A. This would mean that no one would ever be able to enter Israel again, ever, which makes it pretty difficult for Jesus to rule from there during Millennium.

    Israel is the Woman of Rev.12, not the woman of chapters 17 and 18. There are tons more reasons why Myster Babylon is not Israel, but I have only listed three off the top of my head. We have to look at all of the pieces of the puzzle to dertermin who this woman is. Furthermore, by making Israel the woman of chapter 17 and 18, you would making her that forth kingdom with the ten toes made of partly baked clay and iron, which has to be the revived Roman kingdom, but with partly baked clay mixed in which represents a mixture of people so that it is brittle and they will not be untied even as clay does not mix with iron. In fact, nothing that is written regarding the woman of chapter 17 and 18 fits with Israel whatsoever.

    • *Small notice* The woman and the fourth beast kingdom are not the same. The woman rides the beast but she herself is not the beast. The horns on the beast destroy the woman.

      The fourth beast kingdom and the woman are two different entities.

      Blessings to all as we read and study His word.

      • dmcal52 already pointed out the above, I am just doing it generically…4th beast kingdom and the woman are different entities. As Marianne’s great study shows, no blue thread (no Yeshua) equals someone with the appearance of Godliness but who is denying the power of God (Yeshua). Anti-christ’s kingdom will come with power, signs, lying wonders with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish **because**they received not the love of the truth (Yeshua), that they might be saved. (2 Thess2)

  11. Correction: Wherever I used the word “Israel” replace it with Jerusalem.

    • hi dmcal

      Did I give the impression that Israel was Mystery Babylon? I did not mean to.

      While the woman will deny that Jesus is the son of God, which is true of Judaism, there are many other groups that do this also – Islam, buddhism,atheists, etc. , there is more than one criteria for the woman who lacks the “blue.”

      I also pointed out that the woman would NOT keep Israel in “remembrance” meaning It had no regard for Israel and its spiritual and physical needs.

      So this would rule out Israel.

      Since observant Jews tend to follow all the commandments, not just the ones the gentiles picked out, I could not imagine them as disobedient, even if they are lacking the Messiah at this time.

      I believe it is this observant group that will be saved first when Messiah comes, and I hope the rest of them join in as well, and do not follow the antichrist.

  12. Ever wondered if the woman is a country?! Referring that alot of people call their country “her” any ideas?

    • hi serilei

      The essence of the woman is spiritual.

      However, if an entire country embodied her spirit, then yes, the woman could be a country.

  13. The woman on the beast is apostate Yisrael!!! But before you start writing back finish reading what I have to say. Don said the woman in Revelations 12 is not the woman in Revelations 17. He is right. But not for the reason he thinks. Whenever we think of Yisrael, we think either ethnically, or in terms of replacement theology. When the Word speaks of Yisrael as being His people, He is not speaking in ethnic terms. Remember from Genesis, there are only two seeds, the seed of the woman and the seed of the serpent, and the seed is the Word of Yah. Those who accept His word and act on it are Yisrael and are of the seed of the woman, regardless of ethnicity or the lack thereof. Those who reject His word are of the seed of the serpent. There are ONLY two seeds!!!! As has been said before, there is no third seed to choose from. The “woman” on the beast is Yisrael that has cast off His Word, be they ethnic or non-ethnic Yisrael. I guess you could say they are “religious” Yisrael. The “woman” that rides the beast will be deeply involved in the Babylonian system of worship (the seed of the serpent). As Liz said above, it is the entity that Emperor Constantine started. To unify his empire he offered the “Church” a cessation of hostilities and allowed them to live in peace if they would turn away from the “Jewish” things they observed, such as the Sabbath, the Feasts, and commandments. Of course Constantine had his dream or vision of a cross in the sky and we wound up with the Holy Roman Universal (Catholic) Church. The believer’s, at least for the most part agreed, so as to be free of persecution. They continued to worship Jesus (only Yah knows) but they did it in the darkness of Babylonian Sun God Worship. There freedom cost them bondage. And we labor still today with Sun (God) Day worship. It is so engrained in Christianity it is almost impossible to eradicate. The NT isn’t new, it is just true. There is nothing that is in the Renewed Covenant that did not already exist from the beginning. What do you think the 144,000 are going to be doing and saying? Make Teshuvah (return) to the Elohim of our fathers. Being full of Ruach HaKodesh through Yahshua and following His Word (Torah). The question is, do we want to be the “woman” persecuted by the dragon for holding the testimony of Yahshua and observing His commandments or do we want to be the woman riding the beast trying to destroy the people of Yah? You will notice that Constantine (being the pagan that he was) didn’t mind them worshipping Jesus, he wanted that, it was the Torah he had a problem with. Why do you think that is? Kind of sounds like to day, don’t you think? In 1700 years nothing has really changed. Yah told us everything from the BEGINNING!!!! I have heard it said that He (Yah) didn’t start loving man beginning in Acts chapter2. Yah had everything in place for man to be blessed and successful in this life from the beginning. What He did on Passover in Jerusalem was to finish what He had put in place in the beginning. He didn’t start something new. Even though we misunderstand Paul and his letters, he is not anti-Torah, but rather upholds the Torah. We have terrible Greek translations and worse commentaries. Who ordered the translating of the original manuscripts? Was it not pagan kings and emperors that ran state religions. When faced with translating something that would offend or delight the one who commissioned the translating, what do you think they did? Since translating is not exact, there are many words that can be used some being exact opposites. It is easy to understand the confusion we have today. It is how we have people who love Jesus with all of there heart, mind, and strength yet resist those who love Yahshua every bit as much but observe the commandments. Doesn’t that seem like a strange paradox to you? It sure does to me. But Yah in his wisdom, mercy, and justice will sort all of this out either at the Judgment Seat of Messiah or at the Great White Throne Judgment. It just depends on which one each of us will attend????

    The things I am saying here are personal. It is how I understand things to be. I see all of you as brothers and sisters. I am not any ones judge. I am just laying out in the open why I believe as I do. If any are offended by what I say, go and research it for yourselves. Don’t allow traditions to determine what you believe. Just do it with an honest heart and mind. Having done that, put your lives in the hands of Yah for His justice.

    • Since the beast persecutes Israel, why do you think Israel would turn against itself?

      • This is pretty interesting. I’ve thought on and off that Jerusalem/Israel could be mystery babylon – there really are a lot of compelling scriptures to support this theory (the city where they crucified the Lord; city on 7 mountains – yes, there are 7 mountains around Jerusalem), but I’ve decided that for me I just don’t think I should spend my time trying to figure out this one right now! But, in answer to your question….your post on the importance of the missing blue color could provide the answer! If the missing blue represents the Torah (and Yeshua in fact IS the Torah), then you could potentially have believers in Messiah (Israel) who do not keep Torah persecuting other believers in Messiah (also Israel) who do keep Torah. Since starting on this road, even though I am simply loving my King and doing what I feel led to do, and NOT cramming it down anyone else’s throat…i’ve had other Christians tell me I have the spirit of antichrist because they THINK I am denying the grace and love of Yeshua (not at all true) and that I am fallen from grace! Wow, go figure. I’m not telling them any such horrible things. There is definitely a spiritual thing going on with this, and I think the enemy knows that if Christians all start knowing they are supposed to obey all of Yah’s commands, he will quickly lose! So he will split us and use our own brothers and sisters to attack us. I pray this is not the case and that i’m way off track, but I fear that I am not. We’ll see I guess, till then, let’s pray for the peace of Jerusalem!

        • hi Liz

          What you are observing :

          people are confusing liberalism ( do what you will, or think is best)

          with

          grace ( find freedom in doing God’s will)

          Liberals always look for reasons to do their own will, find loopholes around the law, use only part of the law that suits them, or will discard the law as obsolete.

          People under grace who are really committed will look for every possible way to please God, which would make the law a delight to them. The law is no longer bondage but freedom and a source of protection and blessing.

          Then there are those who are just taught a certain way, and follow the liberals or the grace group without thinking about it.

          • Marianne,
            “People under grace who are really committed will look for every possible way to please God, which would make the law a delight to them. The law is no longer bondage but freedom and a source of protection and blessing.”

            YES!!! Your whole post was spot-on and well put.

  14. Al
    You are coming to the same conclusion from a Jewish perspective. I am coming from a gentile one. Ours is not the law and the prophets and the feasts and the sabbath, and temple worship… The jewish people rejected Jesus divinity. When the two can understand these differences we can come to God as one. In righteousness. Its not two seeds, but one. We just start from a different spot. The Jewish people will see Jesus as their Messiah, while the Gentiles will see and hold to the law. The sooner we get over this conflict, the sooner we will stop being at each others throats. This will result in righteosness.
    Obedience to the law does not save us, and neither does acknowledgement of Jesus divinity. Walking with God does.
    Sorry, it is hard to explain this distinction.

    • Al I am not commenting on apostate israel part of your comment. I have not come to the same conclusion on that one, but the law and Testimony part I do.

      The Jewish people (Not all) have rejected the Testimony of Jesus, (that he was God.) Theirs was the Law and the temple…

      The gentiles accepted the testimony of Jesus, But did not have the law, the temple the feasts, etc.

      The church of the apostles were for the most part Jews who held to both the law and the testimony of Jesus. (Paul included)

      If you look at the councils the early church held you will see that “leniency” was instituted towards the gentiles. (No chop,chop) The age of Grace.

      Those who are sanctified by the Spirit are led to obedience to the law. The gentiles need this.

      Those who are jewish have the Law, they need to understand that their obedience to it cannot save them, only Christ their messiah can. because he was the perfect lamb sacrifice.

      Together, they are the apostolic church. Together they = righteousness.

      For gentiles, belief without receiving does not =salvation. (that is the point i was making with alienated)
      For Jewish people, obedience without Jesus does not = salvation. (that is the conclusion we came to …peacefully)

      I know this sounds rather simple, but the ramifications are extensive. The time of the Gentiles has been long for we need to be “led” to obedience.

      This is still at the epiphany stage, so biblical support is upcoming. be patient.

      The time for the Jews will be short, for they need to “see” their messiah. (Zech 12:10 ff)

  15. Sissy
    Personally, this whole sabbath vs sunday debate is ridiculous. Adam was only given one commandment. To not eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. The law came after the fall. before that we knew nothing about good or evil. We lived in righteousness and relationship with God. What matters according to Paul is a “new creation” in Christ. A return of humanity to its rightful relationship with God. We as Christians are not acting from the aspect of law abiding, but from abiding in the vine (Jesus). Now I know this will draw all kinds of negative comments, that I am giving lisence to sin etc. On the contrary, when we abide in him and he in us the Law will take care of itself in our fruit. This is the difference between legalism and righteousness. It is our faith that Justifies not our works. It is God by his grace who sanctifies, not our works. Do I knowingly break a commandment of God? Yes. But does God count it as sin or righteousness? That is for him to Judge. Till then all I can do is be led by the Spirit in me.
    The fact that so many people are hung up on this “Law” shows how they are putting obedience to it on a pedestal and glorifying themselves and their ability to keep it. Quite frankly, it is the easiest of the commandments to keep. But that was not the point of the commandments. It was to keep us Humble, for even when we keep them to the letter, we still break them in our hearts. It is the transformed heart that God is looking for not mindless robots. If we hate someone we commit murder. if we lust after someone we commit adultery. Can we truly love one another as Christ loved us and lay down our life for them. These are unattainable apart from God’s work in us. I cannot emphasize that more. I understand the sabbath has benefits to man. It was created for man as a “rest”. As do all the laws. But what happens when faced with adverse circumstances, the church is incapable of rescuing the needy, such as the Jews in hitlers time, if we cannot act righteously because we are so hung up on the law. Is this not what happenned to the Lutheran church in Germany. Tell me which is the more grievous sin. Lying and stealing food to help those in need or not helping as millions were led to slaughter? Who acted more righteously? Let us always remember we are dealing with a sinful world, our sinful flesh, and principalities and powers fighting to get our souls. And we are arguing about a trivial thing like the Sabbath!
    Heaven forbid we have to heal someone on the sabbath as Christ did.
    Let us be more like Christ and less like the pharisees who condemned Christ for healing on the sabbath.

    • I think the point should be are we obeying the letter of the law or the spirit of the law?

      If we adhere to the letter of the law, then we are all guilty of something.

      If we adhere to the spirit of the law, then we are under grace, doing our best to obey the law.

  16. Marianne, very interesting post. Blue. Everything and every word of scripture is significant. Very significant. God chooses to use common natural things to reveal uncommon spiriutal Truth. I read all the comments since I am always interested when fellow Christians share what is in their hearts and minds. Below are some of my own thoughts in response to some of theirs.

    True Sabbath: I find Sabbath to be a place as much as a day. It is the place of stillness (cease from labors), of rest, of fellowship with God. Eden itself signifies ‘Sabbath.’ Eden knew only righteousness as God and His two children communed fully with nothing to separate. There was peace, abundance, and Life. God sanctified Sabbath since it is His place. I don’t believe God ever intended it to be only a day. The fact that it is the Seventh day more clearly defines Sabbath as belonging to God. Ex 23:11 But the seventh year thou shalt let it rest and lie still; that the poor of thy people may eat: and what they leave the beasts of the field shall eat. In like manner thou shalt deal with thy vineyard, and with thy oliveyard. 12 Six days thou shalt do thy work, and on the seventh day thou shalt rest: that thine ox and thine ass may rest, and the son of thy handmaid, and the stranger, may be refreshed. ‘ Sabbath is the place of rest. Mt 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. ‘ Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. ‘ 11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief’ Seventh always belongs to God. Final Seventh is the Seventh Seal…fully God’s. The Seventh Seal culminates with these words ….Re 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. ‘ Now has come time for the rest of Eden to be restored via the establishing of New Jerusalem …the place of eternal Rest with God….eternal Sabbath. Remember, this is only MY interpretation of Sabbath….only one aspect of Sabbath since something as Holy as Sabbath has a broad and deep meaning which the Holy Spirit reveals in various ways to various believers.

  17. My response concerning Jewish rejection of Messiah: Isa 6:10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.

    This remnant is the apple of God’s eye. The history of this people is one of the most beautiful threads running from Genesis through Revelations. God made them so they could not, would not recognize Messiah and left the other seven thousand of them to come by Grace…left their Free Will…ability to choose…in tact. They still look for Elias who came in the person of John the Baptist and who could not be recognized by the cutt-off remnant. Mt 11:14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come. 15 He that hath ears to hear, let him hear. ‘ Revelations chapter eleven sees the opening of the eyes and ears of these people as they ‘hear’ for the first time….the Gospel of the Kingdom from the mouths of both Moses and Elias. Their response….REv 11:13 …..and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.’

    But Christ knew they did not have ‘ears to hear.’ Christ came to die. These who could not ‘see’ Elias would chant ‘give us Barabas.’ And they are not accountable which is why Christ’s last words were ‘Father forgive them. They know not what they do.’

    I don’t have words to express the love and admiration I feel for these chosen of God. I am honored to be counted with these people…all who are of the Faith of Abraham. My experience and revelation from God concerning the subject is what prompted my website, internetelias.wordpress.com. At the site, I discuss the subject of the covenant people of God in various posts…one titled ‘Remnant: Can’t ‘Hear’ Gospel.

    Again, remember…the above is my thoughts and beliefs concerning the Jews rejection of Messiah. The subject is deep and is revealed by the Holy Spirit in various ways to various people.

  18. Amen!

    Romans 7:22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law

    Psalm 1:1-3
    1 Blessed is the one
    who does not walk in step with the wicked
    or stand in the way that sinners take
    or sit in the company of mockers,
    2 but whose delight is in the law of the LORD,
    and who meditates on his law day and night.
    3 That person is like a tree planted by streams of water,
    which yields its fruit in season
    and whose leaf does not wither—
    whatever they do prospers.

    Psalm 119:70 Their hearts are callous and unfeeling, but I delight in your law.

    Psalm 119:77
    Let your compassion come to me that I may live, for your law is my delight.

    Psalm 119:92
    If your law had not been my delight, I would have perished in my affliction.

    Psalm 119:174
    I long for your salvation, LORD, and your law gives me delight.

    (I recommend reading all of Psalm 1, Psalm 19, Psalm 119)

    • Awesome! I love it! Thank you for putting these verses together!!!❤

    • Liz
      You need to put Romans 7:22 in context
      10. “the very commandment that promised life (refering to coveting) proved to be death to me…14 for we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin.18. for I have the desire to what is right but not the ability to carry it out 25. thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! so then I myself serve the Law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin. 8:2 For the LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE has set you free in Christ Jesus from the LAW of sin and death 3. for God has done what the LAW (Moses) weekened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of SINFULL FLESH and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh4. in order that the RIGHTEOUS requirements of the law might be FULFILLED IN US, who WALK not according to the flesh but according to the SPIRIT…6. For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the spirit is life and peace. 7. For the mind that is set on the flesh is HOSTILE to God, for it does not SUBMIT to God’s law; indeed it cannot. 13. For if you live according to the fleshyou will die, But if BY THE SPIRIT you put to death the deeds of the body, YOU WILL LIVE 14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.

      This whole section of romans is a response to what he says in 7:1-6 which is summed up in verse six “But now we are released from the law, having died to that which held us captive, so that we serve in the NEW WAY OF THE SPIRIT and not the in the old way of the WRITTEN CODE” This is the difference between Old and New testament faith. New testament faith is OF THE SPIRIT, not the written code. The goal is still the same, but we must be led by the spirit towards it putting aside the desires of the flesh. This is what it means to obey the Law fulfilling the righteous requirements thereof. That is how we get to the point of “delight for God’s law”. Ask yourself this question, and I say this not in a condemning way; In your obedience to the law, are you still tempted and give in to the things of the flesh or have you overcome them? This is “putting to death the deeds of the body”. It gives us no position of authority to judge those who are walking by the Spirit, but have not put to death all the things of the body. This is the sanctification process. Ultimately this work will not be done in us till we no longer have this fallen flesh. With God, the unattainable becomes attainable.!!

      I have absolutely no desire to drink alcohol any more. would I have a drink if it meant saving someones life, yes. or lie to the SS if I was hiding a Jew in my house, yes. I know that as the law has no more power in me to condemn me, I know those things will be counted as righteousness. For we are and will deal with a sinful world, and sinful flesh till the second coming.

      • Dru,
        Any surrounding verses do not change the truth of the one, that the Law of YHWH is a delight to Paul. Just like Yeshua said, he did not come to abolish the Law, and not one thing should be changed of it until heaven and earth pass away. So, we can banter back and forth about interpretations of various scriptures, but Yeshua’s words are so crystal clear that all the others should be interpreted in LIGHT of THEM — they cannot contradict the Messiah! So , if they appear to do so, then we need to dig deep on the translation and language/culture/context issues. The NT is full of things that have misinterpreted for eons b/c the translators chose words to fit their agenda rather than sticking to pure translation…this is very frustrating to see and has led many astray.

        I don’t quite understand your approach….are you saying that since we are all tempted by sin, and will sin, that we should not try to obey? That is what it seems you are saying. No one here is advocating legalism that I can tell…we are talking about obeying becuase we want to, becuase these are our Father’s rules, and we want to do what would please Him, or at least TRY to with all of our heart , soul, mind , and strength! Why wouldnt’ you want to do that too? Stop justifying and making up reasons why YOU don’t need to keep certain rules. We are ALL supposed to obey them, and we should all be trying and encouraging one another in this, repenting when we fall short, praying for the Spirit to fill us and guide us, and trying again. Please consider this a gentle reproof…I’m not condemning you, i’ve been where you’re at…but at some point you’ve got to stop running away from the WORD. Bless you in Yeshua.

  19. Hey Marianne and All,

    You asked : Since the beast persecutes Israel, why do you think Israel would turn against itself?

    As I said in the post, I was not talking about the Nation of Yisrael or even necessarily ethnic Yisrael, though there are those who are ethnic Yisrael (the woman) who are actually the seed of the serpent. The word puts it this way, not all who are of Yisrael are Yisrael and not all who say they are Jews are Jews. This is a perfect example of the wheat and tares growing together. In Revelations 17 we are being warned to look out for deception that we WILL be confronted with. Remember Matthew 24:4-5;

    Matthew 24:4-5
    King James Version (KJV)
    4And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
    5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

    Take the two commas out of chapter 5 and you see more clearly what is being said here.

    5For many shall come in my name saying I (Yahshua, Jesus) am Christ; and shall deceive many.

    Outwardly there are will be people who are saying all the right things and seem to be believers in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, but inside they are of the seed of the serpent. This has nothing to do with the nation or the ethnic people of Yisrael. It can be some who are ethnic Yisrael just like it can be some of non ethnic Yisrael (believers in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob) basically the church. John is speaking with imagery here and letting us know that the woman will look like Yisrael but inside will be a serpent steeped in Babylonian sun god worship. Remember, the seed we are of, depends on whose word we act on. Either we act on the word of Yah or on the word of the serpent. That is why the scripture says you shall know them by their fruits. Not just who they say they are, but how they walk out that belief. I am not saying I know the difference between those who are always of the seed of the woman and those who are of the seed of the serpent. Sometimes it is evident, other times not. That is why Yah is the judge and not us. We are being warned in Revelation 17 that our enemy in the end will look an awful lot like us, but when the pressure is applied will turn against us.

    In all of this, remember none of this is set in stone yet, there is a day of restoration coming with the appearance of Elijah. Those who receive his message of restoration will be turned from their deception. Those who do not will languish and be judged accordingly.

    One last thing, we have to understand is that there are different levels of scriptural meanings. In hebrew it is called PARDES. These are the different levels of scriptural interpretation:

    Peshat (פְּשָׁט) — “plain” (“simple”) or the direct meaning[1].
    Remez (רֶמֶז) — “hints” or the deep (allegoric: hidden or symbolic) meaning beyond just the literal sense.

    Derash (דְּרַשׁ) — from Hebrew darash: “inquire” (“seek”) — the comparative (midrashic) meaning, as given through similar occurrences.

    Sod (סוֹד) (pronounced with a long O as in ‘bone’) — “secret” (“mystery”) or the mystical meaning, as given through inspiration or revelation.

    “As a general rule, the extended meaning never contradicts the base meaning.”

    Be Blessed

  20. To all
    To those who “keep” the sabbath, I ask these questions.
    1. There is more to “keeping” the sabbath than “resting”, offerings are to be made, The east gate of the temple is to be opened etc. All of these require the Temple in Jerusalem to exist? As you know there has been no temple since 70ad.
    2. The old testament prophets talk of the reinstatement of the sabbath offerings in the millenial Kingdom. If sabbath is “reinstated”, then it must have been “nullified” at some point? as were the feasts.

    At best, your keeping the sabbath as a day of rest is a token of the responsibilities which make up “keeping the Sabbath holy”. In order to keep the sabbath to the letter of the Law, we must have a Temple to perform these sacrifices in.

    In the Jerusalem council (acts 15) The issue of the Law and the Gentiles comes up. “5. But some believers who belonged to the party of the pharisees rose up and said, “It is necessary to circumcise them and order them to keep the law of Moses.” Peter’s response is telling of how this early church viewed grace and the Law (verses 6-11) “10. Now therefore, WHY are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers NOR WE have been able to bear? 11. But we believe that we will be able to be saved through the grace of our Lord Jesus, Just as they will” 12. And the assembly fell silent… James’ judgement then is as follows: “19. therefore my Judgement is that we should not trouble those of the gentiles who turn to God, 20 but should write to them (1) abstain from the things polluted by idols, and (2) from sexual immorality, (3) and from what is strangled, and (4) from blood. 21. For from ancient Generations Moses has HAD in every city those who proclaim him, for he is read every sabbath in the synogogues.”

    Amos 9:11 which is quoted by james in the council, talks of this rebuilt temple of David during the Millenium. At which time the Sabbath will be reinstated in its entirety for the remnant of Israel that remain on the earth.
    This should make what Paul says in collossians 2:16 make more sense. ” Therfore let no one pass judgement on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or new moon or a SABBATH. 17. For these are a SHADOW of things to COME, But the substance belongs to Christ.”

    Col 2:20 If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, WHY, as if you were STILL ALIVE in the world, do you submit to regulations…23. these have indeed an APPEARENCE of wisdom in promoting self made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, BUT THEY ARE OF NO VALUE IN STOPPING INDULGENCES OF THE FLESH.”

    We are dead to the world, and to the law, as it can no longer “Condemn” us. “Put to death therefore what is earthly in you” (Col 3:5)

    This is Faith in Christ and his testimony. And this is Law.

    All apostate religions adhere to “law”, but none adhere to the testimony and work of Christ in us. They make up for their shortfall with asceticism and works which are not indicative of true change from the inside. We are dead to the world, and we must “put to death” what is earthly in us. Regarding this Post, that is the color that is missing, That Jesus is not just our “Saviour” but our “Messiah God” as well. Our redeemer. Look at the definition for redeem.

    • dru

      I think you are referring to this:

      “‘On the Sabbath day, make an offering of two lambs a year old without defect, together with its drink offering and a grain offering of two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil. Num 28:9

      currently, since the temple is gone, the offerings are mitzvahs and prayers until they can get their temple back.

      Also the bread and wine offered at the eve of shabbat also acts as a substitute for the offerings….

      so offerings are given…just based on what they have and can do until temple sacrifice itself is re-instituted.

      the sabbath has never been cancelled, needing reinstatement later. It has always been observed.

      God expects what is reasonable sacrifice, not what is impossible.

      • Marianne
        I am referring to Ezekials discussion on the rebuilt temple , chapters 40-48
        People who claim to be abiding by the sabbath are not as there is no temple, and the prescence of the Lord is not there. at best it is mere ritual and praise to God. But it is incomplete until his second coming, which will also be the Millenial seventh day, sabbath millenium. I agree that the bread and wine act as substitute, but it is not the real thing. Observation is one thing, obedience is another.

        I knew i would get heat for this. I am not condemning anyone for keeping the sabbath, Just to understand their keeping it does not equate to obedience to the Law. Without God we cannot abide by the law, as it is all mere ritual and substitution. But if God is with us, then what is accomplished by his Spirit IS obedience. This is faith, and we are Justified by it. We are also to continue in it. This is the law written in our heart. Just like Jesus said in the sermon on the mount we are not obedient to law of murder when we merely do not kill, but when we no longer hate. Or adultery is committed when we lust. though outwardly we comply, it is inwardly that we must be changed.
        This is by definition what redemption is. I will let you look up the word.
        Galations 4:5 “to REDEEM those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons”

        What I am trying to do is make people understand that compliance to that law here and now is impossible without “Immanuel” God with us. As is obedience outwardly to any law.

        We are in the time of preparation for the sabbath millenium. With no physical temple, only those with walking with God are being sanctified and prepared for that time will be allowed.

        • dru

          Our body is the temple now.

          What sacrifice we offer with our hearts is more valuable than what sacrifice we offer from the earth.

        • Dru,

          Commandments in about ‘sacrifices’ in Ezekiel which take place on the Sabbath are not the same thing as the commandment about Sabbath itself.

          For all reading”

          Sabbath was was instituted on the *seventh* day. Jesus/Yeshua, who is God the Creator, created all things on the first *6* days. Jesus/Yeshua, the Creator God, then rested from His ***WORK OF CREATION*** on the 7th day and specifically set it apart as Holy to Himself.

          Did Jesus/Yeshua/Creator God rest from EVERYTHING? NO! Scripture says He rested from His work of Creation. This is why saying Jesus/Yeshua broke sabbath by healing on the sabbath is an incorrect understanding of scripture. Jesus/Yeshua/Creator God never said to rest from maintaining/restoring His creation—He rested only from His WORK OF CREATION.

          The Sabbath Commandment is literally TO REMEMBER the Sabbath day….meaning it was already instituted. We are also the KEEP THE SABBATH DAY HOLY…meaning set apart to God. We do this by *resting* *turning away from our own pleasure* *not speaking our own words on His Holy day* .

          While we worship Yeshua/YHVH/The Creator God every day, we ***rest from our labors AS HE DID FROM HIS (our work of creation)*** on HIS Holy day which scripture clearly says is the seventh day.

          We are told WHY we are to keep sabbath. It is a SIGN between YHVH and His people so that we will KNOW that HE is YHVH God. This commandment is REPEATED in Revelation for a reason, it is to protect us from following the one many will think is god (anti-christ) instead of the CREATOR God who rested the seventh day.

          If any believer is sincerely interested in whether or not the sabbath is either:

          1) An abolished commandment/covenant that will be reinstated

          OR

          2) A commandment/covenant that is
          a) THROUGHOUT Israel’s generations
          b) FOREVER
          c) PERPETUAL (meaning WITHOUT INTERRUPTION!)

          then they can look up Exodus 31:16.

          Our Savior died for each and every sin, meaning He died for EACH transgression of the law. He Himself was WITHOUT SIN. Yeshua DID NOT break sabbath nor did He lie. Scripture says God CANNOT LIE. All lies come from the FATHER OF LIES.

          Our lies WILL NOT be counted as righteousness….that is ridiculous. Scripture says NO LIE comes from the truth. Remember, Yeshua is TRUTH, no lie comes from Him, rather ALL LIES come from the FATHER OF LIES.

          Will we ourselves be counted as righteous? Yes, if we repent of our sins and come to Yeshua for cleansing. This is on-going. Paul himself said that he beat his body into submission lest after preaching the truth to others, he himself be found cast-away.

          Sin is *never* counted as righteousness. WE are only counted righteous in Jesus’ blood…our sins are cast-away.

          Do not be deceived, God is NOT mocked. Whatever a man sows that shall he also reap.

          We must REMAIN in Christ Jesus who said if we do not cleanse our hands and feet we have NO fellowship with Him.

          Sin is not a joke or something to be taken lightly.

          Sin is DEFINED as transgression of God’s law.

          We are saved by God when He gives us GRACE.

          God gives GRACE TO….the HUMBLE and CONTRITE (they are sorrowful for their sin and not justifying their transgressions of HIs law.)

          If we seek to justify what God has clearly said are His commandments we are in danger of the “deceivableness of sin”

          The MAN OF LAWLESSNESS is the one who puts himself ABOVE GOD, saying that he IS GOD.

          God is NOT lawless. The ANT-CHRIST is the MAN OF LAWLESSNESS.

          Peter said Paul’s letters are hard to be understood and that they are twisted by those who are UNLEARNED (meaning UNLEARNED in the Old Testament Scriptures) and for us not to follow their ERROR of LAWLESSNESS…..ERROR OF LAWLESSNESS.

          If Paul was saying to NOT keep sabbath or the laws, as some people twist his words, then according to Deuteronomy he is a false prophet.

          Of course Paul is NOT a false prophet….but UNLEARNED people twist his words and are in the ERROR OF LAWLESSNESS.

          Be careful all.

          We are saved by God’s grace, through our faith in Jesus Christ, UNTO Good works. They do not save us but they EVIDENCE whether or not we truly KNOW WHO GOD IS.

          By THIS we know we have come to know HIm: WHEN WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS>

          The one who says, “I know Him”, and DOES NOT KEEP His commandments is a LIAR and the TRUTH IS NOT IN HIM.

          Blessings as we abide IN our Savior, the TRUTH, who also abides in US.

          • Amen…you said it all, or, I should say…YHWH said it all and you spoke His truth.

            We are not to justify blatant disregard for his rules, we are to be humble and contrite and he will forgive us if he knows our heart is true.

            Dru, you’re right that Yeshua expanded the law, he made it come into focus (this is a better translation of the word “fulfill” when he said he did not abolish the law but he fulfilled it. He expanded the understanding that when it says do not murder, it means do not hate, etc. as you pointed out. But, we are still NOT TO MURDER, whether in our heart or physically! So, we are still to KEEP THE SABBATH, physically AND in our hearts. Simply obeying means nothing if there is no love for YHWH. And just because it’s hard to keep the commandment to not hate anyone, to forgive enemies…we must keep trying, we don’t just give up or wait till we are “led” to obey. Same thing w/ the Sabbath…it’s easy to obey this one…but, the heart is another matter…there are times I find myself inwardly wishing that I could go to the market, or resenting for a moment that I can’t fit in with the rest of the world, or what have you….these are sins that the Spirit convicts me of ON THE SABBATH. I’m only convicted that they are sin though, because I am keeping the Sabbath now, and know that Yah wants my full attention and for me to seek Him and not my own pleasure on that day. And this helps me every other day of the week to do the same. Sanctification at work, through obedience and grace. Blessings to you.

    • Col 2:20 If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, WHY, as if you were STILL ALIVE in the world, do you submit to regulations…23. these have indeed an APPEARENCE of wisdom in promoting self made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, BUT THEY ARE OF NO VALUE IN STOPPING INDULGENCES OF THE FLESH.”

      Dru – this is not taking about the Torah or laws of YHWH. It’s talking about the laws and spiritual rules that the gentile believers USED to follow (again, translation issue since they just used the word “law” all over the place without any differentiation). This is abundantly clear if you only study in the Word wherever YHWH’s Torah is mentioned it is always EQUATED with wisdom and truth and of MUCH value! His Torah would never be described as above (Yeshua = Wisdom= Torah=Truth=Word=YHWH).

      Shalom.

      • liz
        Hopefully you will read my responses below. You and others are “misinterpreting” what I am saying with regard to the Law.

        I am sorry if I am “challenging” your beliefs. this is not my intent. The sabbath is fulfilled in Jesus, and I am trying to express that in words. With the help of the HS and a little time in the Word, hopefully what I say below will clarify that.

        What You see as my disobedience is my obedience and Faith. It is not “blatant disregard for his rules” But rather the fulfillment of them.

        I look forward to your response.

        • Dru –
          The problem with your logic (not your heart, I think your heart is in the right place, but you are making faulty conclusions in my opinion), is that the fact that Jesus is our Rest, that he is Lord of the Sabbath, that he fulfilled/expanded the Sabbath, does not in any way mean that we are to stop observing the Sabbath. The shadow of Yeshua is still relevant and there. Because he is the fulfillment of the Sabbath – He brings such an indescribable depth of richness to keeping the Sabbath for those that believe in Him, something Jews who don’t believe cannot understand or experience. Yeshua and all of the early followers (Jew and Gentile) kept the Sabbath and all the other commandments up until somewhere after 150AD, and certainly around the time of Constantine these practices were all but gone unless done in secret due to persecution and who knows what else.

          If Jesus and all of those earlier followers kept these rules out of love for YHWH….why would you think that it’s ok to stop doing them? Don’t you think it’s even remotely possible that you have been deceived? you are not challenging my beliefs – I am steadfast in my love for my Savior and desire to keep all of his instructions for my life to the best of my ability. I’ll fall, as we all do, but i’ll keep trying — having a big brother cover for me does not give me license to just do what I want. I sincerely hope that you are praying for wisdom and looking up the passages referenced/articles given here.

          Please tell me how you explain away matthew 5:17-19?
          “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 Truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

          That is your Savior talking — I don’t think it’s wise to so cavalierly set aside any of his commands. He wants your love, your heart to be on Him…but a big part of that is “does my servant seek to obey me?” “does he know my rules?” “does he love me, as seen by his attempt to obey me and follow me:?” How do you explain away 1John? The whole scripture has to make sense and the only way it does make sense w/ Mt. 5 as above is if we as disciples respect and love the WORD of YHWH who is Yeshua who IS the Torah manifested in the flesh! Double minded men will go nowwhere in the end. Read Psalm 119. Read all of Psalm 58. Read Malachi. Read Revelation. The Torah , the law, is not done away with, it is fullfilled, it is magnified, it is made clear in Yeshua…and by His Spirit we are able to obey and to know more of the depths of meaning of his Sabbaths , His feasts, his precepts and rules, his Love for His people, and His amazing GRACE.

          shalom.

          • “…the fact that Jesus is our Rest, that he is Lord of the Sabbath, that he fulfilled/expanded the Sabbath, does not in any way mean that we are to stop observing the Sabbath”

            Amen, Liz!

            It’s like this: Yeshua kept the commandment “Do not murder”…does that mean we can now murder? Yeshua kept the commandment “Do not commit adultery”…does that mean we can now commit adultery? As dru aptly pointed out at one point in this thread, Yeshua magnified the commandments – we don’t literally murder and we don’t hate in our hearts – BOTH. Likewise, Sabbath would be magnified – we would both observe it the seventh day literally and also go further.

        • dru,
          Jesus was the Passover Lamb…THIS is the shadow that He became/fulfilled. Scripture does not say He “became” the Sabbath – YOU are saying He became the Sabbath.

          “For the law, *HAVING a shadow* of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with THESE same *SACRIFICES*, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. But in *THOSE SACRIFICES* there is a reminder of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.” – Hebrews 10:1-4

          Please note in verse 10:1 it says the law “having a shadow” – all of the law is not a shadow, but contains/has a shadow; the shadow is then spelled out in the same sentence to be the animal sacrificing. This is then elaborated upon in detail so there can be no confusion.

          Again – Scripture says that Jesus literally became the sacrifice that takes away our sins (“Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!” – John 1:29…cf. Hebrews 10:4 “For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins”)…He was the REAL Lamb casting the shadow seen in the continual animal sacrifices. Scripture d o e s n o t s a y – ever – that Jesus “became” the Sabbath – YOU are.

          It has never been my desire to talk anyone into keeping the commandments. When I realized the law hadn’t gone anywhere as per Yeshua’s words, I was shocked. It took a while to sink in, being that so many were saying the opposite in my hearing for so long and that belief (the one you hold to) had become a part of me. But my reaction to finding that not one jot or tittle had passed from the law or the prophets, in addition to shock, was one of joy, much like the people in Nehemiah. I was so excited to know I could finally know what pleases my Father and actually do specific things for Him! THIS…this excitement, is what makes me tell others. But I have no desire to talk anyone into it. I have been met with people who react with excitement like I did, and people who put evil for good and good for evil (saying that disobedience is in fact obedience). This was prophesied, and I have to let others have their own walk with God.

          Shalom.

          • Sissy and liz
            did you even read what I wrote below? How do you explain Hebrews 4:10, other than to say that Jesus is our rest? I do not know how many times I have to tell you I am NOT nullifying the Law in anyway, only saying that All of it was Fulfilled in us on the cross! By his blood AND his resurrection. You see the Hebrews 4:2 clearly states “Good news came to US Just as to THEM.”
            The “us” is those in Christ. The “them” is Israel. The “good news” for “them” is the Law of Moses. For “us” it is Jesus. “They Were not UNITED by faith with (US) who listened. 3. For WE WHO HAVE BELIEVED ENTER THAT REST.” What “rest” are they talking about?
            10. “For whoever has entered God’s Rest has also rested from his works as God did from His (referring to Genesis)”

            Yes, Sissy, I am saying that he fulfilled the Sabbath requirements, and this was prophesied throughout the Old testament. I was “led” to this passage by the Holy Spirit after praying for guidance on this issue as it is weighing heavy on my heart. For me, realizing “how” he fulfilled this has been a blessing beyond compare. Not because it is an excuse for observing, But because his blood has imputed HIS righteousness upon me. If anything, this has humbled me completely.

            Romans 14:5 says “each one should be fully convinced in his own mind” referring to what day is better or if all days are alike. What the Holy Spirit revealed to me has “Fully convinced”me.

            As for Matthew 5:17, This must be seen in the full context of the sermon on the mt. You quote verse 17-19, but ignore verse 20. The scribes and the pharisees were well versed in th Torah. They outwardly “obeyed” these commandments, but inwardly they did not. This was their hypocracy. They did it to exalt themselves. The revalation given to me by the Holy Spirit was an inward fulfillment. If I were to deny it I would be denying Christ. I was filled with Joy, as my prayers were answered. My prayer was for wisdom and understanding, and he answered (James 1:5-6) I have no doubts!

            As Our Body is his temple, and He is with us, The Law has been fulfilled in us. Obedience for me is a matter of “believing”. “My faith (belief) has found a resting place….”

            • dru, you said: “They outwardly “obeyed” these commandments, but inwardly they did not. This was their hypocracy.”

              In this you are correct. And you are correct that Yeshua fulfilled the law. I said He did not “become” the law. He became the Lamb that takes away sin.

              But back to your observation of their hypocrisy, Jesus said to His disciples and the multitudes, “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in ***Moses’*** seat. Therefore *whatever they tell you to observe, THAT OBSERVE AND DO*, but do not do according to their works; for they *say*, and do not *do*.” – Matthew 23:1-3

              The key is in saying AND doing in Spirit and in Truth…as our Savior did. Did our Savior keep Sabbath? Yes. Then I will. Let us look at what He did, and “walk just as He walked” (1 John 2:6). This makes it so simple.

            • “The scribes and the pharisees were well versed in th Torah. They outwardly “obeyed” these commandments, but inwardly they did not. This was their hypocracy. ”

              Agreed…not only did they not obey inwardly, but they ADDED oral law/ traditions that have no place and no basis and were not from YHWH.

              Yeshua critisized them harshly for their hypocrisy – but he never said they were wrong in obeying the written Torah. They just didn’t do it out of love, and they twisted Yah’s truths and led people away from God in the process.

              shalom.

  21. Liz, bless you for the things you have shared concerning Sabbath and the desire in your heart to honor God more fully through obedience in the Sabbath. You are not alone. If nothing else, Sabbath surely is about ‘rest’ or ‘stillness’….of ceasing from our labors.

    Ps 46:10 Be still, and know that I am God: …….’..

    Ps 4:4 Stand in awe, and sin not: commune with your own heart upon your bed, and be still. Selah.

  22. example – maybe this will help:

    Case 1. A strict father has rules for his child. He must clean up his room or he will be punished. The child fails to do a perfect job. So the child tries hard, and sometimes fails.

    When he fails, he gets punished, and he has to do extra chores.

    The child loves the father but feels this anxiety about perfection, guilt about getting everything right, and fears the punishment for any failure. He is under the law.

    Case 2: A strict father has rules for his child. He must clean up his room or he will be punished. The child fails to do a perfect job. So the child tries hard, and sometimes fails.

    So, his older brother decides to help him on what he cannot do correctly. Any time the child messes up, his brother covers for him, and gets the job done. So the end result is a clean room. It does not matter to the Father who does the job, so long as it gets done.

    Now the child is happier, and freer. he may forget to pick up a toy, or he might miss a spot to clean, but it is ok. he has done his best, and his big brother will make sure all is well. now the child feels relief from the rules. He still loves his father but is not afraid of being punished now, if he makes mistakes.

    He does not have that guilt or anxiety, because he is under grace. Grace is the unmerited favor of the older brother, who does not have to help him, but does, because he loves his younger brother.

    • Marianne, what an AMAZING example! That is inspired.

      I noticed that in both Case 1 and Case 2, “the child tries hard, and sometimes fails.” There is a third case…let us take care not to be the child that doesn’t care to try.

      This thread has been a blessing to me.🙂

      • hi Sissy

        Since this was a debate between obeying the law and grace ( maybe not obeying the law) case # 3 did not seem to fit in.

        Also, Case #3 would have made my comment too long.

        Someone who is willfully disobedient and unrepentant is not under grace.

    • Marianne
      I like your analogy as well of a child cleaning his room. What if case 3 were a child who had a “brother” who cleaned the room for you, and came to live in that room with you and kept it clean forevever. Now that younger brother could “rest” from his “working”, because it is no longer his room alone. Now when that little brother does clean, It is done with a pure heart, and not by coercian or guilt of any kind. In ethics this is called “virtue”, in the Bible this is called “righteousness”. Virtue that is coerced is not virtue at all. For this child, he is no longer acting on his “Knowledge of Good and Evil”, But rather out of gratitude and humility for what the “big Brother” has done for him. As psalm 50:23 puts it “The one who offers thanksgiving as his sacrifice glorifies me; the one who orders his way rightly, I will show the salvation of God” OR Micah 6:8 “He has told you, o man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you, But to do Justice, and to love kindness, and to WALK humbly with your God?”

      This is what makes our “room” a “resting place”
      God bless

      • Since the dirty room represents sin, the child is still responsible for his own actions, and needs to make some effort not to sin. He cannot go around and dirty the room, and expect his brother do all the work. this shows no conscience or repentance.

        • I would see it like this. As the boy realizes how much his brother has done for him his will is to do what is right. (righteous) Habakkuk 2:2-4
          “And the Lord Answered me :
          Write the vision; make it plain on tablets, so he may run who reads it.
          3. For still this vision AWAITS ITS APPOINTED TIME; IT HASTENS TO THE END- It will not lie, IF IT SEEMS SLOW WAIT FOR IT; It will surely come; it will not delay.
          4. Behold his soul is PUFFED UP; it is not upright within him,
          BUT THE RIGHTEOUS WILL LIVE BY FAITH.”

          • Let us not forget that Abraham is held up in Scripture as our ultimate example of faith, and what does it say made him faithful? What he did with his faith:

            “Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that *faith was working together with his works*, and by works faith was made perfect? And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, ‘Abraham *believed* God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.’ And he was called the friend of God. You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.” – James 2:21-24

            Belief is equated with obedience in Scripture. You can’t have one without the other. Hebrews 3 is a great explanation of this:

            “Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of *unbelief* in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called ‘Today,’ lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of *sin*. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, while it is said:
            ‘Today, if you will hear His voice,
            Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.’
            For who, having heard, rebelled? Indeed, was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses? Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who *sinned*, whose corpses fell in the wilderness? And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did *not obey*? So we see that they could not enter in because of *unbelief*.” – Hebrews 3:12-19

            Unbelief = sin / not obeying

            The righteous will live by faith…the kind of faith that Abraham had and acted upon…the kind of faith that the rebellious turned from, even after grace rescued them from Egypt.

            • Sissy
              Didn’t the Torah condemn child sacrifice… severely? In fact it is an abomination. Yet Abraham this act was counted as righteousness. (He was restrained from carrying it out though his intent was obedience).

              • The Law:
                “Do not give any of your children to be sacrificed to *Molech*, for you must not profane the name of your God. I am the LORD.” – Leviticus 18:21

                The Prophets:
                “They have built the high places of *Baal* to burn their sons in the fire as offerings to *Baal*–something I did not command or mention, nor did it enter my mind.” – Jeremiah 19:5

                The Psalms:
                “They shed innocent blood, the blood of their sons and daughters, whom they sacrificed *to the idols* of Canaan, and the land was desecrated by their blood.” – Psalm 106:38

                The children of Israel sacrificing their children in the fire to false gods and to idols is NOT the same thing as God *telling* Abraham to sacrifice Isaac – which when we look back on it was meant as a picture of God giving His Son as a sacrifice for us. God did not let Abraham actually do it, but Abraham was willing to do what God told him to do. The children of Israel actually sacrificed their children to false gods, which is something that never entered into God’s mind.

                Stop calling obedience sin and sin obedience.

                • I am not doing as you accuse me! It is you who are Judging Sissy, but you fail to see it. What Abraham did was obedience, Just as what David did with the bread of prescence was obedience. You are relying on the Law to save you instead of Jesus. In Jesus Name I pray you will understand and turn from your sin. “the righteous will live by faith”
                  Let us use the example of David then as he was Under the law, yet he ate of the bread of prescence, which was forbidden by law. Yet he was found blameless save his sin with Bathsheba. Jesus even refers to this when accused of breaking the sabbath. Luke 6:1ff

                  • Hmmm…I am quite certain that over and over it has been said that we in no way look to our works of obedience to save us – please show me one statement that indicates that. FAITH LEADS TO OBEDIENCE.

                    Doing righteous ACTS is how we express our love for Messiah, and we will also be JUDGED by Him for these actions reflecting our faith and love. This is clear many places, but I love this passage in Revelation 19:
                    7 Let us rejoice and be glad
                    and give him glory!
                    For the wedding of the Lamb has come,
                    and his bride has made herself ready.
                    8 Fine linen, bright and clean,
                    was given her to wear.”

                    (Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of God’s holy people.)

                    9 Then the angel said to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!” And he added, “These are the true words of God.”

                    Abraham had enough faith to know that God would raise his son from the dead if necessary, because he knew that God had promised his descendants through Isaac, so he was willing to “kill” his one and only son as a shadow of God the Father having to “kill” (allow to be killed) his Son, knowing He would be resurrected. It is explained in Hebrews 11:

                    17 By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had embraced the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son, 18 even though God had said to him, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.”[c] 19 Abraham reasoned that God could even raise the dead, and so in a manner of speaking he did receive Isaac back from death.

                    Shalom.

              • Sissy and dru

                You guys are going off the deep end. Going to extremes is not a balanced approach to debate.

                You are making things complicated.

                We do our best, and then Jesus completes us, and compensates for our shortcomings.

                • Marianne,
                  Each time dru posts of late he digs out another seeming example of disobedience to a law being “righteousness.” This is not so, and I have tried to show him the danger of his position as stated in Scripture. I’ve done this because I fear for him teaching this. He is not merely relaxing the least of the commandments, he is saying again and again that *breaking* any one of them, great or small, is *evidence of righteousness or faith*. This is backwards, inside out, upside down, and dangerous.

                  However, I have openly called him brother because he knows Who our Savior is, proven by his confession on here. Though I wholeheartedly embrace him as saved, he is calling me unsaved (“You are relying on the Law to save you instead of Jesus.” -dru)

                  dru, you said you are not doing as I accuse you. Here are your own words which sum up succinctly what you have been arguing: “What You see as my disobedience is my obedience and Faith.” I have never encountered a case quite like this. Usually people don’t say disobeying the commandments *means* righteousness and obeying them means you are lost, as you have by praying for me to “turn from [my] sin” for obeying. “Sin” is “transgression of the law” according to 1 John 3:4…what “sin” would you have me turn from that is stated in the law? As Paul said, “Is the law sin? Heaven forbid!” You are, in fact, wildly contrary to Scripture, saying that sin is obedience to the law. In that I do believe you are going off the deep end, and I was trying to stop you in love.

                  Be blessed all. I believe the Spirit wants me to depart here. Shalom and blessings be yours.

          • That may or may not happen. What does the scripture have to do with what you are saying?

  23. 1 John 4 is a passage I think on and ponder–especially when I have become anxious or *fearful* in the past.

    “Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. We love him, because he first loved us. If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.”

    What a gracious Savior/God we have!

  24. you always blow my mind, Marianne =). Purple/ארגמן is definitely and for a long time been the color of kings. People generally attribute it to the Phoenicians, but may achievements of David and Solomon’s kingdom were given to that people, since such a short lived (80 years) reign wasn’t long enough for everyone in the earth to know what was going on here (Israel). I think the word in hebrew is actually related to the latin/greek words for king (regum/rex, it changes over time and from language to language). ארגמן in ancient hebrew would have been pronounced ar’jaman, and i think it would be fitting to call kings “purples.” so at some point in a certain dialect or a different language they could have been called rejemans, which you can even see in modern spanish for the word kings- reyes (ray jays).

    what i found most interesting was your observation that satan’s ephod only has 9 gems. in genesis 15 after YHWH makes the covenant with Avraham, God mentions the 10 peoples whose land he will give to Avraham’s seed. One of these peoples is Cana’an, which i consider to be the head of the other nine, since the land is either called:
    19the land of the Kenites,
    Kenizzites, Kadmonites, 20Hittites, Perizzites, Rephaites,
    21Amorites, Canaanites, Girgashites and Jebusites.”
    or it is just called the land of Cana’an. and so, it could be that these are the tribes of Satan, and even though they may have been destroyed long ago, their spirit lives on, for example in the Palestinians of today. Amalek is not listed here, but here’s something more; instead of looking for who the 9 are, let’s look at who the 3 missing aren’t.
    it’s surprisingly confusing which gems correspond to which tribes, because different translations call the gems differently, and there’s both the choshen and later on the stones of the tribes in the millenial temple, in new jerusalem, which are different. so the three that are missing: Ligure, Agate, and the Amethyst.
    could be ligure- Gad/Joseph, agate- Asher, and amethyst- Issachar/Benjamin.
    So whoever feels so called can help look up which tribes are missing from Satan’s people- my first instinct was Levi, Joseph, and Judah- the tribes of Priests, Prophets, and Kings. People use the expression of the “10 lost tribes,” which isn’t so accurate, as Benjamin completely and Levi largely were within the borders of Judah and were not exiled. Simon possibly also, but they were less influential historically. The Priests and Levis served in Jerusalem, not all Levis are priests, but all priests are Levis. Joseph was THE early prophet character, about whom the Egyptians asked: Is there a man like to be found, that the Spirit of God (or the gods from their perspective) in in him? and Judah of course is where all the kings, most importantly David and Solomon hailed from, and Yeshua was both the seed and plant of David. Joseph’s onyx stone is also what the tribes names are written on on the choshen shoulders, though in new jerusalem joseph’s stone is ligure/jacinth. Messiah ties into all of these tribes more than the other 9: Judah through David, Levi/Priests because he’s a priest in the order of Malki-Tzedek and that is the tribe of Moses, Aharon, and Miryam, and Joseph because he recieved Israel’s blessing (somehow it seems that in the second coming Yeshua will attach himself more to the tribe of Joseph, since historically his blessing has not been fulfilled). Joseph was the only one of the tribes who lived as an example of the savior in his own lifetime and saved his own family.
    Satan is ok with creation as long as there is no savior, no messiah. just like the enemies of israel say, we have no problems with jews, just israelis. because israelis are the children of israel doing God’s work. as long as jews are scattered and wandering like the 9 lost tribes (if you count Levi as a tribe and Ephraim/Menashe as one tribe under Joseph), they don’t have any problem with us, that’s just how they like us. But when we have a messiah who was represented by Joseph, a priest like levites in the order of malki-tzedek, and from the seed and plant of David, of the tribe of Judah, all the evil spirits of the world are terrified, and turn to accusing, לשטן, li’SaTeN
    Satan is the accuser.
    In the words of David: all nations surrounds me, in the name of YHWH for I will cut them down.
    Amen w’Amen,
    s

    • This was so interesting, thanks for the post! So you think thre are only 9 lost tribes? i’ve never heard that before.

      I also agree the observation that satan only has 9 stones is very interesting and surely significant. It’s interesting too that from last week’s Torah portion it talked about how Reuben, Gad, and 1/2 of Manasseh elected to stay outside of the promised land, leaving 9 full tribes to go into the Land.

      Then there are the 12 stones Joshua put by the Jordan. I guess these things will remain a mystery…but very cool to think about!

      Shalom.

  25. Recently, keeping the Sabbath has taken on a new meaning to me. It is a way of loving G-d, spending the day with Him, of keeping Him preeminent in thought and prayers. It is a day to truely rest and refrain from chores. It encompasses spending time with loved ones and reaching out to others with focused love. It has become a desire to please Him and not some hard legal thing.
    I believe the Lord honors whichever day one observes for Him. Personally , Saturday speaks to my heart as the one to keep.

  26. Hello all
    Hebrews 4:9 is the ONLY place in the New Testament that the word “sabbatismos” is mentioned. It is in reference to the “people of God” or the Israelites. The context of this verse makes it clear that those who are obedient to the Gospel are those who have entered a different “rest” in Jesus which those who “formerly received the Good news (the Israelites) failed to enter because of disobedience” (4:6) This rest we enter is “Katapausis” or resting place. We are told to strive for this. (verse 11)
    “For whoever has entered God’s rest (Katapausis) has also rested from his works as God did from his.” (hebrews 4:10)

    I suggest that everyone read Hebrews 3:7-4:13 For brevity I will not quote the whole thing.

    This is not nulifying the fourth commandment, only fulfilling it. It is making the commandment a shadow of the “rest” we have in Jesus. What a beautiful fulfillment!!!

    As the Old hymn puts it:

    My faith has found a resting place
    Not in device or creed
    I trust the Everliving One
    His wounds for me shall plead

    I need no other argument
    I need no other plea
    It is enough that Jesus died
    And that he died for me.

    May all be blessed.

    • Dear Brother Dru,

      “For whoever has entered God’s rest has also rested from his works AS GOD DID from his.” (hebrews 4:10)

      You shared that this verse does not nullify the the fourth commandment. We are in agreement. I also heartily agree, Jesus is our rest, AMEN!

      “For whoever has entered God’s rest (Jesus) has ALSO rested from his works AS God did from His.”

      How and when did God rest from His work?

      Genesis 2:3
      Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

      Those who enter God’s rest, Jesus, rest from their work as God rested on the seventh day from His work of creating.

      There is no law that can save us. Only our Jesus can save us and that is a great relief/rest. Those who have entered into THIS rest ALSO rest from our work as God rested from His. We are told exactly how and when God rested. He rested from His work of creating things and His rest was on the seventh day, i.e. the Sabbath.

      We are definitely not saved by keeping Sabbath, or not Murdering, or Not committing Adultery or any other commandment but He is our good Father and knows what is good for us and if we love HIm, we keep His commandments and they are not a burden or bondage.

      1 John 5:3
      For this is the love of God, that we keep HIS (God’s) commandments; and HIS (God’s) commandments are not burdensome.

      While on earth, Jesus said the scripture (meaning the old testament scriptures at the time) can *not* be broken.

      Since, according to Jesus, the scriptures cannot be broken (Jn 10:35) and the scriptures clearly say:

      Sabbath is *Forever* and *Perpetual* (Exodus 31:16-17)

      …then Sabbath is STILL *forever* and *perpetual* and this scripture cannot be broken.

      Whether any of us *remember the sabbath to keep it holy* is between the individual and our Father or Judge.

      Shalom and Yeshua bless you brother.

      • ALamb, this is very clear. Yeshua is our rest, and in Him we follow His ways – remembering the Sabbath day, not murdering, etc.

        I also think John makes it clear, and you said:

        “1 John 5:3
        For this is the love of God, that we keep HIS (God’s) commandments; and HIS (God’s) commandments are not burdensome.”

  27. Marianne
    I like your analogy as well of a child cleaning his room. What if case 3 were a child who had a “brother” who cleaned the room for you, and came to live in that room with you and kept it clean forevever. Now that younger brother could “rest” from his “working”, because it is no longer his room alone. Now when that little brother does clean, It is done with a pure heart, and not by coercian or guilt of any kind. In ethics this is called “virtue”, in the Bible this is called “righteousness”. Virtue that is coerced is not virtue at all. For this child, he is no longer acting on his “Knowledge of Good and Evil”, But rather out of gratitude and humility for what the “big Brother” has done for him. As psalm 50:23 puts it “The one who offers thanksgiving as his sacrifice glorifies me; the one who orders his way rightly, I will show the salvation of God” OR Micah 6:8 “He has told you, o man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you, But to do Justice, and to love kindness, and to WALK humbly with your God?”

    This is what makes our “room” a “resting place”
    God bless

    dru2 said this on August 4, 2011 at 8:37 pm | Reply

  28. The fringes, or borders, of the prayer garment, which contain the blue thread, also represent the Messiah, the healer:

    Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

    See also the following verses that speak of Yeshua and the corners/tassles(tzit-tzit) on his garment:

    Ruth 3:9
    9 “Who are you?” he asked.
    “I am your servant Ruth,” she said. “Spread the corner of your garment over me, since you are a guardian-redeemer[a] of our family.”

    Luke 8:43-45
    43 Now a woman, having a flow of blood for twelve years, who had spent all her livelihood on physicians and could not be healed by any, 44 came from behind and touched the border of His garment. And immediately her flow of blood stopped.
    45 And Jesus said, “Who touched Me?”

    Shalom.

  29. To all
    What you are not seeing here is that the Law is Fulfilled in us when God is in his temple!! I cannot explain this in words as I am no scholar, But the Joy is “beyond compare”. Enoch was taken to heaven for his righteousness. He was the seventh from Adam and did not have the Torah. Arguably he did not even have the law to keep the seventh day as a day of rest, as it is not mentioned in the covenent with Noah. Murder was not known until Cain killed Abel. Before that murder was inconceivable. In other words there was no Knowledge of it. What is it that the fallen angels brought to Humanity. According to the Book of Enoch, It was “knowledge” of all kinds of evil and sorceries. (apostacy). Noah was a righteous man, and found “favor” in the eyes of the Lord, and was spared wrath. He had no Law to be Judged by. In Hebrews we are told that Jesus is a high priest in the Order of Melchizadek. What part of the Torah did he perform priestly duties for?

    Immanuel was promised and fulfilled in Christ. The Holy Spirit is the comforter and “God with us” here and now. To deny that we are his “temple”, and his law is fulfilled in us is to not have faith. We are told to continue in faith. To abide in the vine. To be Led by the Spirit. That is Obedience to the Law of righteousness. “I do not nullify the Grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for No purpose.” Gal 2:21.

    • “Immanuel was promised and fulfilled in Christ. The Holy Spirit is the comforter and “God with us” here and now.” Amen! This is how I can call you my brother – you recognize Who Jesus is.

      Righteousness is NOT through the law, amen! It comes only through the shed blood of Jesus. If we are trying to be saved by the law, then we are fallen from grace.

      On these 2 very important points that you make I think everyone on here is in complete agreement. We are saved by grace through faith UNTO good works “that we should walk in them” (Eph. 2:8-10). Let us do good works because we love Him, not because we are trying to be saved, but because we ARE saved.

      But let us be mindful that “if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins” (Hebrews 10:26). We must not tread the Son of God underfoot, count the blood of the covenant by which we have been sanctified a common thing, and insult the Spirit of grace (Hebrews 10:29). Grace is not license to sin…we must not “turn[ing] the grace of our God into licentiousness” (Jude 1:4).

      Shalom and love in Jesus, our Lord and God!❤

    • Noah was not righteous because there was no law for him to be judged by. He was righteous because he constantly sought to please his God. He already knew not to eat unclean animals, or he would not have been told to bring them on the Ark.

      If Jesus had said directly to the disciples “keep the Sabbath”, would you?? My guess is you would. You can see throughout the scriptures that He DID keep the Sabbath, and that all of his followers did as well…yet you persist in proclaiming that YOU are free from obeying the law anymore. Sorry dru, it makes no sense, I don’t care how much “joy” you are feeling, it is not of YHWH, becasue He would NEVER condone a blatant refusal to obey his Word. You no longer have the excuse others have who have not studies the issue, have not realized that these instructions were never done away with!

      As was already pointed out, we don’t obey to get saved, for “the work of God is this, to believe in the one he has sent”. Yet, we will be judged for our works, that much is certain and clear in many scriptures. What we DO in acting out our obedience will have major ramifications — whether it is how we learn to stop giving in to thoughts that are like murdering someone else, giving to others, taking care of widows, orphans etc, forgiving our enemies, bearing the fruit of the Spirit, keeping the Sabbath day holy, keeping the Feasts of YHWh , and rejecting the mixing of pagan idol worship in our practices and tradiitions (i.e. Christmas, Easter – practices of Balaam)…all of these things are works that we are called to do as we “work out our salvation with fear and trembling”. It’s nice to feel secure…but this verse indicates that perhaps our sense of security may be misplaced if we are too complacent about sin.
      shalom.

      • Believe me there is no lack of “fear and trembling ” in what I am doing here. I am not blatantly refusing to obey his Word, You merely are Judging it as such. To say that a law has been fulfilled in us, is not disobedience to it. To say that righteousness is apart from the law is wholly biblical, as in the beginning there was no law. Matthew 19: 8 Regarding divorce in the Law of Moses: ” He said to them (Pharisees) ‘Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, BUT FROM THE BEGINNING IT WAS NOT SO”

        Did you happen to read the context of galations 2:21. “19. For through the Law I died to the law, so that I might live to God, 20 I Have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, But CHRIST WHO LIVES IN ME. and the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God who loved me and gave himself for me.”!!!

        • The correct interpretation of that verse should be, “For through the Law (Torah) I died to the law (oral laws), so that I might live to God” But anyway, i’m not negating any of those statements you made. It’s just that you seem to think that because Christ is in you (the one who wrote the Torah), you do not need to obey it. Makes no logical sense to me. Our freedom in Christ is not a license to disregard His Word. You are on one hand saying you are trying to live righteously through the Spirit, yet then the next minute you are saying you are not “called” to obey the commandments.

          You mention there not being a law in the beginning. What is your point? Adam and Eve sinned, the wagees of sin is death and then Yahweh instituted his law. Yeshua coming did not take us back to the garden of Eden, his Law still stands and will stand through the millenium until the new heaven and new earth come down.

          • Actually, Gal 2:19 uses “Nomos” both times.

            I will ask you this question with regard to Adam and Eve, and going “Back” to that. Why did Paul Use the words “new creation” to describe our Goal of our sojourn?
            When did I say we are not “Called” to obey the commandments?
            Obedience is acknowledgement of their fulfillment in us by the Sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit.

        • “He said to them (Pharisees) ‘Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, BUT FROM THE BEGINNING IT WAS NOT SO”

          I just want to jump in here and say that from the beginning it was not so because in the beginning the intention was for man and woman to join in marriage and stay that way, but SIN entered. Thus, there entered the option for divorce. Yeshua always wanted them to be together, one flesh, faithful till death. The best is still for adultery never to occur and for man and wife to be faithful…and even if one is unfaithful, the better thing than divorce would be repentance of that sin, forgiveness of that sin, and reconciliation. But if one’s spouse is in unrepentant adultery, this endangers the other (as we can see in the spread of STD’s, as well as the heartache it causes).😦 So there is provision for divorce in the law.

          • I agree with that. Sin is the reason the Law was introduced. In a sense you confirmed my point. Now what does the cross do when it comes to sin? Forgives it. If by the power of the cross and his grace, we are seen as blameless by God, then we are dead to the law.

            When it comes right down to it, it is as simple as this logic statement.

            If A (sin) leads to B (law), and C (the cross) erases sin then those who are forgiven by Yeshua are dead to the law.

  30. Heb. 4:1-11 – Hebrews Says That Jesus is Our Rest
    by Michael Bugg

    On the contrary, in the original Greek, Hebrews 4 actually tells us that there remains a Sabbath-keeping for the People of God–and it even tells us that that day of rest is on the seventh day, when our Father rested from His work of creation.

    The claim is often made that Hebrews 4 says that Jesus is now our rest, so we have no need for a Sabbath. As we will see, that argument does not hold up under careful scrutiny.

    Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: “So I swore in My wrath, ‘They shall not enter My rest,'” although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”; and again in this place: “They shall not enter My rest.” Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said: “Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts.” For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

    Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. (NKJV)

    Hebrews chapter 4 flows naturally out of chapter 3, in which the author of Hebrews warns his readers not to harden their hearts as Israel did at Massah (“Testing”) and Meribah (“Provocation” or “Strife”; Exo. 17:7). In both the Psalmist and the author of Hebrew’s mind, the incident at Meribah—in which Israel demonstrated a lack of faith, or trust, in God when they ran short of water and complained against Him—is emblematic of the lack of faith which characterized their whole journey through the desert, the same lack of faith which resulted in them being turned away from the Promised Land and forced to wander for forty years (Psa. 95:10-11, Heb. 3:10-11):

    And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. (Heb. 3:18-19)

    Note that the author connects the lack of belief/faith/trust (Gr. apistian απιστιαν) with a lack of obedience. The Lord’s brother Ya’akov makes a similar statement when he states that “faith without works is dead” (Jas. 2:17)—we are indeed saved by faith rather than works (Eph. 2:8-9), but a saving faith will result in works, for which we were saved (v. 10).

    Why the author of Hebrews selected Psalm 95 rather than, for example, a passage from the Torah (perhaps the narrative of the twelve spies) is a question that few ask, but is important to our understanding of his point. Stern explains the significance:

    Psalm 95, quoted at 3:8-11 and explained in the subsequent verses, was sung on Shabbat in the Temple and remains part of the Shabbat liturgy in the synagogue. Therefore it is natural for the author to make his point about rest by introducing a quotation from another Shabbat-related passage (used today in the home service before the Friday night meal), Genesis 2:1-3 . . . (Stern, Commentary 672)

    Just as if, for example, someone began a sermon in a Sunday church by quoting from the song, “O Come, O Come Immanuel,” you would understand him to be leading into a teaching on Christmas and Christ’s birth, so the original recipients of Hebrews would have understood its author to be leading into a teaching on the Sabbath. As we will see in a moment, this is exactly what the author is doing.

    The rest that God withheld from the rebellious generation might be thought by us to refer to simply the rest of settling the Promised Land and by way of a midrash to those who have put their trust in the Messiah Yeshua (4:1-3). However, the author of Hebrews, reading this Psalm in the context of the Temple and synagogue liturgy, has another point in mind, which he develops through two distinct threads of reasoning:

    First, he connects the concept of rest with the original Sabbath on which God rested “from all His works” (Heb. 4:4, Gen. 2:2). In v. 3, he notes that God’s works “have been in existence since the founding of the universe” (CJB—lit. “the works are coming into being from the foundation of the world”). That is to say, God worked to create the universe for six days and then rested on the seventh, and all that he created in those six days remains to this day.

    Second, he notes that the Psalmist speaks to those who have long since been settled in the Land when he says, “’Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts.’ For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day” (vv. 7-8). Therefore, Hebrews argues, there is a rest that one should endeavor to enter into, even centuries after entering into the rest of the Promised Land. Likewise, there is a rest that one should endeavor to enter into even after receiving the Gospel (vv.6-7).

    This brings us to the author’s conclusion, which is correctly rendered in the CJB:

    So there remains a Shabbat–keeping for God’s people. For the one who has entered God’s rest has also rested from his own works, as God did from his.

    Therefore, let us do our best to enter that rest; so that no one will fall short because of the same kind of disobedience. (Heb. 4:9-11)

    The word translated above as “Shabbat-keeping” is sabbatismos (σαββατισμος), which is incorrectly rendered in the KJV and NKJV as simply “rest”! (Note to the KJV-Only advocates out there: This is a flagrant mistranslation, and probably deliberate on the part of the translators!)

    Even versions that translate this word “Sabbath-rest” (nearly all others) miss the mark. Thayer’s Lexicon notes that the correct translation is “a keeping sabbath.” Likewise, Barnes’ writes in his Notes on this verse,

    It properly means “a keeping Sabbath” from σαββατίζω sabbatizō – “to keep Sabbath.” This word, not used in the New Testament, occurs frequently in the Septuagint; Exo. 16:30; Lev. 23:32; Lev. 26:35; 2Ch. 36:21; and in 3 Esdr. 1:58; 2 Macc. 6:6.

    Again, see the author of Hebrews’ reasoning:

    Those who rebelled against God in the wilderness did not enter the rest of the Promised Land.
    However, even those descended by those who did enter the Promised Land were enjoined by the Psalmist not to harden their hearts, but to enter His rest. Therefore, even entering into the rest of the “Promised Land” of faith in Yeshua, we should not harden our hearts against God’s commands.
    God rested on the seventh day. Therefore, there remains a keeping of the Sabbath for those who rest in Yeshua in which we rest from our own works as God did from His—on the seventh day!
    Nearly all Christian commentators correctly note that in an ultimate sense, we look forward to the true Sabbath-rest of the Millennium and/or Eternity, and partake of it by resting our souls in Yeshua now. I have no argument against that; however, in searching out the midrash (the deeper meaning, the teaching), nearly all miss the p’shat (the road, the plain meaning): Just as the Israelites were commanded to continue to keep the weekly and Feastday Sabbaths long after they entered the rest of the Land, so we who are in Messiah should do the same even after entering His rest.

    As demonstrated elsewhere, we are told not to let anyone judge us for keeping the Sabbath, or other feastdays, since they are “a shadow of things that are coming” (Col. 2:16-17, CJB). We also see that Yeshua never countermanded the Fourth Commandment; rather, He only sought to correct the rabbinical excesses in trying to regulate the Sabbath, giving us as its defining principles, that “what is permitted on Shabbat is to do good” (Mat. 12:12), and “Shabbat was made for mankind, not mankind for Shabbat” (Mark 2:27).

    Yeshua HaMashiach alone has the right to define the Sabbath, “For the Son of Man is Lord of Shabbat!” (Mat. 12:8), and He declined to either remove it (which would have amounted to removing a blessing) or move it to Sunday.

    In closing, let me again quote Barnes, who though he gets the date wrong, correctly writes of the Sabbath:

    [T]he Sabbath here should be like heaven. It is designed to be its type and emblem. So far as the circumstances of the case will allow, it should be just like heaven. There should be the same employments; the same joys; the same communion with God. One of the best rules for employing the Sabbath aright is, to think what heaven will be, and then to endeavor to spend it in the same way. One day in seven at least should remind us of what heaven is to be; and that day may be, and should be, the most happy of the seven.

  31. Romans 7:12 says “The law is sacred, and what it commands is sacred, just and good.” . The ten commandments remain essential to G-d and important to practice. It seems simply clear that keeping a sabbath obsevance is as important as not lusting after, or envying my neighbor, or taking his belongings, among the others in the list .
    Of course falling short of any of the 10 does not determine our salvation, only repentance and faith in the saving grace/blood of Jesus Christ can do that.
    I confess to not being a great scholar, but this seems so simple.

    • Amen, Barbara. So simple. Walk as Yeshua walked (try to!). What did Jesus do? Obeyed His own WORDS that HE WROTE, that’s what He did! So simple. Let’s just do it and praise Yahweh! HalleluYah! : )

  32. LAW 102

    by Avram Yehoshua

    I thought I knew all there was to know about God after I got done with four years of seminary at Oral Roberts University in Tulsa, OK. I had already been immersed in His Spirit; what more was there to Christianity except loving Jesus and walking with Him?

    One day, a couple came to our apartment and shared about the Sabbath of Yahveh 1, still being in force today, especially for believers. I ‘listened’ while they shared and after they were gone I mocked them. The Sabbath was done away with! I had learned that in seminary. Every Christian knew that. The Law is dead. Christ nailed it to the Cross. We are free from the Law.

    A couple of weeks later though, the Holy Spirit began to speak to me about the Law. I told the Holy Spirit that the Law was dead. That ended that conversation. The following week, the Holy Spirit again came to me and spoke to me about the Law. Again I said that the Law was dead. Conversation ended.

    A few days later, the Holy Spirit came to me a third time and spoke of the Law in a way that got my attention. This time I said, ‘You know Lord, You have a point there.’ The Lord had broken through my theology about the Law. And now the Lord began to lead me into the Glory of the Law, for both Jewish and Gentile believer today. That was 1983. Since then many people have come to see the Beauty of God’s Teaching or Instruction, as Torah (Law), is properly translated.

    The Laws of God
    With some points made about the Sabbath, the dietary laws, the Law and sacrifice, you will see that the Church’s interpretation of these, is not biblical. The Church has given us its own ‘commandments’ instead, that literally nullify the Word of God in these areas.

    Paul uses Law in two very distinct ways. One is in relation to Salvation, and the other is in relation to how a believer should walk who is already saved. The Church only takes the first, in terms of Salvation, and applies it to both fields. In terms of Salvation, Paul’s theme is:

    No one can be saved by the keeping of God’s Law.

    It was never meant to be used as a vehicle of Salvation.

    In terms of teaching us what is pleasing to God though (Holy Days, dietary laws, His Commandments for His People Israel; both Jew and Gentile), we only know what His Will is in these areas as the Law tells us. Jesus did not place the Law on the cross, He placed our sins on the cross 2. With His Death, our sins have been canceled out; not God’s Holy Word (Torah), which is His Will and His Wisdom for His People Israel, both Jew and Gentile in Messiah.

    By the time of Jesus and Paul, the Law had become conceptually perverted by the Pharisees (and Rabbis). It had come to be seen as the vehicle of Salvation for the Jew. If a Jew kept the Law, then God would owe him eternal life. But nowhere in God’s Word could that be found. It was a pitiful invention of the Rabbis. How were the Hebrew slaves saved from Egyptian slavery? Did they keep the Law? No. They were saved from Egyptian slavery by the very thing that saves you and me; the blood (Blood), of the lamb (Lamb).

    Once they were freed from their slavery, born again you might say, they were brought to Mt. Sinai to learn the Way of Yahveh. And once we are freed from condemnation that the Law brings us because of our sin, we are able to live unto Yeshua by His Spirit (Yeshua is the Hebrew Name for Jesus; it’s the Name all the Apostles would have known Him by). And how are we freed from this condemnation? We are free from the condemnation of the Law, by death to self. When we come to the Lord Yeshua through the waters of baptism and Baptism in the Holy Spirit. But the Law remains as the guide for what is sin and what is not. It tells us when we are ‘still alive to self.’ Yeshua tells us that the two greatest Commandments are to love God and your neighbor, and then He states:
    ‘On these two Commandments hang the whole Law and the Prophets.’ (Matthew 22:40)
    The Christian Church says, ‘Hang the Law!’ But Yeshua is saying that every Commandment has its reason for existence (extends or ‘hangs’), from one of these two Commandments. Therefore, every Commandment of Yahveh teaches Israel what God’s Love is. They explain in concrete terms how to love Yahveh and how to love our neighbor. The reasons the Commandments exist, is to define ‘love,’ God’s Love, His Way.

    …rest of article found here: http://www.seedofabraham.net/law102.html

  33. It is funny how all the “experts” in the Law have “trouble” with the interpretation of Hebrews 4. I Do not believe what I believe because of what a man says, I believe what the HS has revealed to me. The “righteous will live by faith.” For me this is a matter of faith. As I have said time and time again, I am not nullifying the law, I am saying that the law has been fulfilled by Yeshua, by what he did on the cross. I have entered that “resting place” and it is a place We as Christians should “strive for”. This does not mean that there is no benefit to sabbath rest as indicated by the Law, but I can honestly say it is a shadow of the resting place we have in Yeshua.

    God bless and goodnight.

    • Sissy and dru

      I think what dru is saying is that there are cases where something seems to be disobedience to the law, but actually isn’t.

      In some cases, grace allows a certain latitude of interpretation of the rules, and some actions are allowed, in that they still are in line with the spirit, not the letter, of the law.

      Example: when Jesus healed on the sabbath. This was “work” to most people, but it was grace in action, seeing that God’s will for man to rest would require that man be free from suffering in order to really “rest.”

  34. Sissy
    What you are missing is that the law of Moses is summed up as love the Lord your God with all your heart, and Love your neighbor as yourself.
    Jesus’ new commandment was to Love one another as He loved us.

    Do You see a connection? Love. When you are living under Hitler and hiding a Jew in your home, You are lying to the SS agents. But you are acting out of Love. The lie is breaking the Torah command on lying, but love is overriding this command. When we act in righteousness, The law has no authority to condemn us. This does not say that lying is not a sin. It is 100% a sin. But so is not loving that Jew and turning them into authorities. Most people will agree with this, even you.

    I am not saying you are not saved, only that you are relying on obedience to the law to save you instead of the cross. Honestly I do not know what your faith is as to judge whether you are saved or not? Only that you are valuing obedience to Torah more than Love. When it comes to the sabbath, What I am expressing is my Love for God by saying that he fulfilled the requirement thereof by being the resting place. Yet you cannot look past that “law” which says to keep the sabbath. Is not keeping the sabbath a sin? yes. But so is not loving the Lord your God with all your heart. Just as Jesus Healed on the sabbath. How is what I am saying about the sabbath based in love is the problem you are having with my response?
    I agree that your obedience to the torah is based on love, But you are not seeing my love in declaring Jesus as the sabbath fulfilled. Yet you believe that he fulfilled the Lamb sacrifice for sin? It takes faith to believe what I am saying, Just as it takes faith to believe that Jesus’ sacrifice fulfilled the Torah sacrifice for sin.
    Faith is believing that Jesus forgave ALL our sins on the cross. Our room is forever clean. If we are saved, we will continue in this faith, (grace), and act accordingly (fruit of the Spirit). The problem is, we still have to deal with our dirty flesh. Though our room is clean, we still need to bathe to keep it totally disinfected. This is where repentence and sanctification come into play. Note the focus is no longer on the room, but on the flesh. The room is clean already, Now our flesh needs cleaning. This bathing is done not by our effort, but by His grace. Our big brother has made the bath, and will wash us, we just have to get in the tub (receive). This is the error most Christians fall into. They force themselves into obedience to the Law instead of being “led” to it. As I said before, coerced virtue is not virtue at all. (Read Romans 6-8 if this is confusing to you) If we are forcing ourself to obey the law, we have not dealt with that desire of the flesh within us which makes us want to disobey. When we are tested, and this desire of the flesh is brought to the surface we cannot overcome the temptation.

    Adultery is a prime example of this. Think of all the priests and televangelists that have fallen prey to this when tested. How great was their fall? They appeared to be obedient, but they were not sanctified by The Holy Spirit. I speak from experience here. I was in that exalted position. But I failed in the face of that temptation. This is why obedience to the letter of the law is not equated to righteous obedience.

    As we are entering the endtimes, we will be tested in our faith. will we be able to Love one another as Christ Loved us, or will we turn our brothers and sisters over to the AC in order to save our own skin?

    In Godly love, I pray you understand.

    • Because I want to keep Sabbath, that means I am going to turn my brothers and sisters into the Antichrist?

      Because I want to obey, I don’t love?

      Wow.

      Your problem is that you only see 2 choices – sin to protect someone, or betray someone. There is always another option. Silence, for example.

      This is my last response to you.

      “Let the one who does wrong, still do wrong; and the one who is filthy, still be filthy; and let the one who is righteous, still practice righteousness; and the one who is holy, still keep himself holy.” – Revelation 22:11

      • I think everyone is misinterpreting what the other one says here.

      • You just put words in my mouth
        If silence is an option, then what about the Lutheran church which said next to nothing in oposition to Hitler. I am sorry, but this is what end times will be like only worse.

        May God bless you

  35. Grace, Faith, Obedience – by 119Minittries

    We have all fallen short of God’s perfect righteousness as defined by His law (instructions for man). God’s law was given to us to bless us if we obey, and curse us if we disobey (sin). God’s instructions (Word) have
    existed since the beginning, thus nothing in God’s Word is ever new, we are just always in a state of trying to understand His Word better, which is actually the exact same as understanding God Himself better.

    We have all broken God’s law, and thus we all were all under the curse (the law of sin and death). The breaking of God’s law is sin and the consequence is eternal death. Once under grace through faith, we are
    no longer under the law of sin and death, as was written by Paul.

    God offered man a way to eternal life if we have faith (believe, commit, trust) in God and His Word. God did not have to offer this to us for any reason whatsoever. He owes us nothing and we can do nothing
    ourselves to escape what we rightfully deserve, which is eternal death. Thus, anything God extends as a benefit to us is an act of grace (unmerited favor). His plan of salvation is an extension of His grace out of
    His love for us.

    God’s Word outlined a plan for our salvation from God’s wrath (eternal death). That plan was manifest in Y’shua the Messiah (Jesus Christ) at the appointed time. Y’shua dying on the cross abolished the curse that
    resulted from our disobedience to God’s law. The finished work on the cross is the ultimate act of God’s grace. We certainly did not deserve to be saved from the second death and did nothing to earn it.

    Yeshua is God’s ultimate act of grace for mankind. God’s grace is a demonstration of His love for us.

    The finished work on the cross eliminated the curse (law of sin and death) for those having faith, and all of the instances of our failures at keeping God’s law (sin) will be not be held against us like those that will be
    judged and experience the second death. We will not be present at the Great White Throne judgment that leads to the second death. It is those who have faith (believe, commit, trust) in Him and His Word that will
    have eternal life.

    When we keep God’s law, we still receive the blessings as originally prescribed, but not the curse of the second death when we fail. When we fail, it is covered under grace through the work on the cross. When
    we are obedient, we still receive the blessings.

    We still receive all of the blessings of our obedience in this life and the blessings also extend into eternity as part of our rewards/crowns that we receive at the Lord’s return. This is the bema seat judgment in which
    all believers will experience, which is different than the Great White Throne judgment (second death). At our judgment, it will determined whether we will be least or great in the Kingdom for all eternity. What we do and practice in His Word as believers now will echo into eternity on that day.

    ….(read rest of article at http://q.b5z.net/i/u/10105283/f/Grace_Faith_Obedience.pdf )

  36. Excellent summary from Grace, Faith, Obedience article at http://q.b5z.net/i/u/10105283/f/Grace_Faith_Obedience.pdf talking about the very debate we’ve been having here….I hope this clarifies the point some of us have been trying to make. Blessings to all.

    “However, our own righteousness, by keeping God’s law, will never be righteousness enough to save us. It takes the righteousness that we receive in faith in Christ, who was the perfect righteousness on our behalf, because we all fall short. That is the righteousness we need first.

    Phl 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

    The whole letter to the Galatians teaches us that we cannot be saved by our keeping of God’s law. Complete righteousness can not come from our own obedience. We have all failed and can do nothing to redeem ourselves.

    Ga 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

    Paul teaches us that through God’s grace we receive perfect righteousness because of Christ’s finished work on the cross. Our complete righteousness comes from the work on the cross by grace through faith.

    Ga 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

    But Paul also taught that there is righteousness that comes from obeying God’s law. This seems almost contrary to what he just taught in the above scripture.

    Ro 10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, that the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

    Ro 10:4 For Christ is the end (goal) of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

    Ro 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

    Ro 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

    So we are to practice and do righteousness as obedience to the law (do not sin), but Christ is also our righteousness. How does this work exactly? Why was Paul teaching on what seems to be two types of valid
    righteousness?

    John stated, as the rest of the above Scripture agrees, that we are to not sin (righteous according to God’s law), but when we fail, the righteousness of Jesus Christ advocates for us to the Father.

    1Jn 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that you sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

    Thus, we are to strive to practice and do righteousness (obedience to God’s law), but when we fail, we are covered by grace in our faith.
    This is exactly what Paul taught us about God’s law in Romans 3:31

    Ro 3:31 Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

    Just because Christ covers all of our sin (unrighteousness) in grace, it does not mean that we can sin (be unrighteous). We want to continuously strive to be obedient, and God’s grace picks up where we fail. We do not sin just so “grace abounds.” We are to avoid sin and live the righteous life, as defined by God’s law.”

  37. Sorry, misspelled above, the website is called “119 Ministries” – here is their home page:

    http://www.testeverything.net/

  38. Ok, one more excerpt from the 119 Ministries article on Grace, Faith, Obedience ( http://q.b5z.net/i/u/10105283/f/Grace_Faith_Obedience.pdf ) – including scriptures for the skeptical. Like others have expressed, I think we can end this conversation for now, Dru – you’ll be in my prayers, as I hope I’ll also be in yours : ) Blessings in Yeshua.

    “Obedience is keeping God’s commandments (law).
    Disobedience (lawlessness) is defined as breaking God’s commandments (sin).
    Grace is God demonstrating His love for us. Our obedience is us demonstrating our love in return. That is the relationship of love Scripture declares we have with God Himself.

    Here is how Scripture defines God’s law:
    1. The Law blesses (obey) and curses (disobey).
    (Deut 11:26-27)(Ps 112:1)(Ps 119:1-2)(Ps 128:1)(Prov 8:32)(Is 56:2)(Mat 5:6)(Mat 5:10)(Luke 11:28)(Jam 1:25)(1 Pe 3:14)(Rev 22:14)

    2. The Law defines sin (disobey).
    (Jer 44:23)(Ez 18:21)(Dan 9:11)(Ro 3:20)(Ro 7:7)(1 Jo 3:4)

    3. The Law is perfect.
    (Ps 19:7)(Jam 1:25)

    4. The Law is liberty/freedom.
    (Ps 119:45)(Jam 1:25, 2:12)

    5. The Law is the way.
    (Ex 18:20)(Deut 10:12)(Josh 22:5)(1 King 2:3)(Ps 119:1)(Prov 6:23)(Is 2:3)(Mal 2:8)(Mark 12:14)(Ac 24:14)

    6. The Law is the truth.
    (Ps 119:142)(Mal 2:6)(Ro 2:20)(Gal 5:7)(Ps 43:2-4)(Jo 8:31-32)

    7. The Law is life.
    (Job 33:30)(Ps 36:9)(Prov 6:23)(Rev 22:14)

    8. The Law is light.
    (Job 24:13)(Job 29:3)(Ps 36:9)(Ps 43:2-4)(Ps 119:105)(Prov 6:23)(Is 2:5) (Is 8:20)(Is 51:4)(2 Cor6:14)(1 John 1:7)

    9. The Law is Yeshua (Jesus), the Word made flesh.
    (PERFECT+FREEDOM+WAY+TRUTH+LIFE+LIGHT= Law/Jesus).
    (Ps 27:1)(Jo 1:1-14)(Jo 14:5-11)(1 Jo 1:7)

    10. The Law is also for those who were once Gentiles (foreigner/alien) but now are grafted in to Israel.
    (Ex 12:19) (Ex 12:38) (Ex 12:49) (Lev 19:34) (Lev 24:22) (Num 9:14) (Num 15:15-16) (Num 15:29) (ie:Ruth) (Is 42:6) (Is 60:3) (Mat 5:14) (Eph 2:10-13) (Ac 13:47) (Ro 11:16-27) (Jer31:31-34) (Ez 37) (1 Jo2:10) (1 Jo 1:7)

    11. The Law is God’s instructions on how to love God, how to love others, and how to not love yourself.
    (Ex 20:6)(Deut 5:10)(Deut 7:10)(Deut 11:13)(Deut 11:22)(Deut 30:16)(Deut 6:5)(Lev 19:18)(Neh1:5)(Dan 9:4)(Mat 22:35-37)(Matthew 10:39)(Mat 16:25)(Jo 14:15)(Jo 14:21)(Ro 13:9)(1 Jo 5:2-3)(2 Jo1:6)

  39. Was this the longest running comment column ?!

  40. Marianne, do you have a favorite out of all the topics and pages?

    • hi Barbara

      It seems like each new one is my favorite. My site started with a jezebel series, and another for prayer against witchcraft. From the responses, they have been a help to many that wrote in, and that blesses me. I really do tend to favor posts on prophecy, or on obscure facts about the bible that people do not think about much. The deeper the topic, the more I like it.

  41. Jesus blood removed the believers out from under the law. If you are a jew we are required to tell you so and support you with the truth. Jesus died for our sins and that made us of the new covenant but we are not under the law. Don’t make what Jesus Christ did in paying for believers sins of no effects with ignorance.

    By his stripes we are healed, not with two pigeons and a sheep. He died to set me free from the oppressor. We may be oppressed but you are guaranteed by God not a man that he will set you free. Jesus Christ paid for your liberty, if not yours he paid for mine. I am not giving my liberty to any serpent or scorpion when God said we can tread them down.

    If you have a desire to be under the curses of the old testament then believe that his life did not do anything. You are lost according to the word unless you are blood Jew and then accept at his coming. If you are a believer, what are you believing is not the gift of Christ death the beginning of all Christianity? Remember also God hates those who call themselves Jews and are not.

    For me and my house we will believe in Lord. He was hung on a cross that no curse from the old law can come upon me. He became accursed for me. Why do you need grace from God that is sufficient when you are weak and sin, why do you have an advocate with the Father for forgiveness if you are under the law. Where do you sacrifice? Has anyone read the gospels of Paul?

    God doesn’t want us back under the law. Jesus Christ paid it all. If you goof up you go to the Father and repent and he forgives you, by his forgiveness his grace is made perfect.

    If you aren’t praying every day and loving God and your neighbors and those even who do evil unto you,who do you serve? Sometimes we read and are yet blind. pray for the Holy Ghost anointing that you may see. When we put a stone around peoples necks making man to stumble we are an offense to God. A man who loves God and puts him first is still a man but greater is he who is in me than he who is in the world.

    Jesus came to full fill the law that no man can keep without issue or ever failing.
    The word says if you say you are not a sinner you are a liar. All men have fallen short of the glory of God.

    Please don’t make what the savior did of no effect, there is no other sacrifice that can ever be paid to match what he did because of who he is. Without sin he laid down his life. Also if you are a Christian don’t be fearful to defend the Lord, if you defend him and his honor and who he is he shall remember you in Heaven before the Father.

  42. Purple is the royal color of Babylon, and Scarlet is the royal color of Assyria, during their Empires. The woman would be a city which both
    Babylon and Assyria has come to rule over, and so she would be clothed
    with royal affluence of Babylon and Assyria, Purple and Scarlet respectively. The Ten Oracled doom nations mentioned by Isaiah would be the Ten Horns, of the Beast, all tied to Daniel’s prophecy of the golden statue of all world empires, which would rule Babylon and Assyria until the end of the world. Since the Blue of the Jews is not represented, the Jews fall from control of Jerusalem, after making a peace treaty with Persia, Assyria and Arabia, all among the ten oracled nations listed in Isaiah, that come to their doom. The Orthodox Jews long have been antithetical to Jewish Israel , as a Nation, to them it must not be so until after Messiah comes. So, it is prophetic the current democratic state of Israel , would be taken over by the Orthodox Rabbis and they announce their messiah is coming from Persia, and so the city of Jerusalem is servant to the Persian Prince, his royal color is purple, and then Turkey allied with Syria would be represented by Scarlot as their royal color. When the Persian Neo Cyrus comes to Jerusalem to a Temple, HIs declaration as the Messiah, will cause the Arabs to riot in Jerusalem and many will be slaughtered and war will climax in Megiddo , when Islam will implode , the Persians and Arabs war over who is the Caliph, and Turkey side with Persia, with Russian aide, and the Arabs might be aided by the United States, because of the Oil Trade.

  43. The reason why the colour blue is missing from the woman on the beast and the papacy in the Vatican and only purple and scarlet is because Revelation says so;

    Revelation 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
    17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
    17:5 And upon her forehead [was] a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
    17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

    where is the colour blue missing from the woman on the beast?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_law

    http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=090D351678953969&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL

    The change to the ten commandments which the colour blue represents;

    http://sabbathsermons.com/2011/01/19/the-blue-law/

  44. Hi. Good study. Please consider changing the colors of the text. The light colored texts are impossible to read on my device. Liz, so the plan of your religion is for you to work to earn your salvation? How sad. So many people are trapped and ensnared trying to earn their salvation through good works of some sort. Abraham had no law yet he seemed to have salvation. The commandments never seemed to confer salvation. They seemed to prove it was impossible to 100 percent achieve perfection. Bunch of narcissistic personality ddisorders are trying to ensnare the unsuspecting into their web of deceit. They are not perfect but put a burden of perfection on others. Then they mock us who are imperfect in their eyes. Bunch of cowards and selfish hurting people at heart.

  45. Jac it is clear you did not actually read any of my comments. Sorry you came to such a wrong conclusion. We are saved only by grace, we can never earn Gods love and forgiveness, Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and no one comes to the father except by him. Since he has saved me, I want to follow him, and following him means obeying him, and obeying him means doing what the word says, all of the word (the only scriptures referenced back then was the Tanach). Please read the Bible. Without an agenda. Shalom, Liz

  46. Interesting article!

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