The Iraq – Russia – Syria WMD Conspiracy
There really were WMDs in Iraq, which justified the Iraq war. They were secretly moved right before the Iraq war started. An unholy triangle existed between Iraq’s Sadaam, Russia, and Syria.
Click here for more
Heaven Awaits 
Dear Marianne,
To completely disregard the historical evidence I have presented on the racial foreign policy of the divinely inspired United States, would mean your either completely bias to fact based information or just unable to comprehend research. However, I do commend your offensive attack on Islam. There is no doubt criticism should be posed to everything and anything. But, if your going to criticize a religion, do not do so on the basis of actions, but rather, on the actual religious scriptures. I know you don’t need the 101 on Islam, but from you comment, I assumed you were in desperate need of a reminder. Soon enough, I will write about Islamic history and provide ample evidence for you and many others to judge.
With regards to my article, you must understand that the conclusions I was drawing were based on actual speeches and historical evidence. The brutal and racial events in American history certainly do overshadow the glory days of America, and this was made possible by right-wing war-hawks, who imposed their will under the guise of “civilizing the uncivilized”, and currently the same tactics are being employed with the cover of “democracy”. I believe you’ve done a disservice to Christianity when you said “Manifest destiny started with Jesus, who said to make disciples of all nations. And race did not matter.” Surely, respect for sovereignty of nations, human rights, and different religions must be enshrined in the Christian teachings, right? If so, why didn’;t the divinely inspired United States adhere to those principles? Are you saying that Jesus, or in the Christian sense, God, has given the moral authority of “civilizing” the uncivilized to America? And the numerous reprehensible acts the United States have conducted and still are conducting is also God’s intention?
Peace friend.
Quicksilva,
The slander and condemnation of America is important to the advancement of Islam. America has done more good in this world than any other modern nation.
You may use documents, but you have a twisted, erroneous, and negative interpretation of them.
marianne
Dear Marianne,
The tragedy of your entire reply is that it is completely baseless and unreasonable. I don’t see how I could have possibly have a “negative interpretation” of those documents, when I quote them in their context. If you mean a negative interpretation in terms of the history of the United States, then I would have to agree. Like I said before, I believe America has a brutal time line, which completely overshadow it’s glory days. And of-course, is never taught in school. However, do not get me wrong, America has done much in the case of rebuilding nations and providing much monetary support in areas devastated by natural disasters. No doubt, this must be acknowledged. And I do acknowledge it. But your so hesitant to acknowledge the overt racism and putrid contempt of non-white people, which has played a major role in the foreign policy of the United States. I do not need to slander America to promote Islam. In my articles, there is no propagation of Islam, because there is no reason to compare a religion to a country. But rather, you assume that I do. You are absolutely wrong in that assumption. If you read my article on Afghanistan, I am very critical of the Taliban and try to resort to actual Islamic scriptures to prove how they have completely disregarded the tenants of Islam. I do hope in your next reply, you provide something which may be fruitful to this discussion.
Peace friend.
Quicksilva,
you have been lied to about Islam and Arab history if you believe people desiring to live in peace have no right to defend themselves. God will not bless a people who kill young women who are raped by evil sinful unrepentant men and call it “honor killing”, a people who are in constant denial about the evil of their own culture and envious of other cultures because they are hard working people. I think it would be better for you to focus on the MANY problems of your culture like taking responsibility for the poverty and the oppression of women.
Quicksilva,
If it makes you feel any better, I spend more time criticizing false Christianity, and trying to get people back to the original faith, than I take commenting on Islam.
This is also the only country in thousands of years who freed their own slaves. The last one to do this was King Cyrus of Persia. While some people are racist, most of us are not, and never have been, and have spent our lives working toward fairness and equality. This is a melting pot of nations. People have come here from all over the world and have been given opportunities here they can get no where else. This also includes those who were, at one point, our official enemies. Japanese and Germans, for example.
Extra comment to anyone.
There will be obvious differences in versions of history, based on what people have been taught. I apologize if I ever seem harsh.
World events are quite severe at this time, and my concern for hurting people sometimes influences my response. I have friends from all backgrounds and cultures. We may not all agree about everything, but we do still respect each other’s rights and feelings.
marianne
Marianne,
Hi hope you are well.
I really doubt the truth of this article. I know for certain it was the United States who sold Iraq the chemical weapons used agaist Iran and not Russia. There is the famous photo of Rumsfeld shaking Sadam’s hand.
Furthermore while the existance of WMD’s is questioned in Syria, Iraq and Iran there is no doubt that Isreal possesses nuclear weapons as does the United States. Is there some moral majority that Isreal has.
Isreal cannot trace their ancestory by blood. They pay more heed to the Talmud than the Torah or Old Testament.They are not Isreal as God once were they are a perversion of it.
Love,
John
John,
Opposing views are welcome here.
Why would you say that Israel cannot trace its ancestry by blood? This is an era of DNA testing. I know there are ways to genotype populations. DO you have information that Israelis have failed some test?
Marianne,
Hi hope you are well. Most of the Jews if not all cannot trace their ancestry back to those who inhabited Isreal. Thus for that reason they are not Isreal. Furthermore they do not act like Jews should because they follow the Talmud which is a blasphemous peversion of God’s Law.
Just because they claim to be God’s choosen people and Israel does not make it so. Regarding America it has no moral advantage over any nation in any regard. So while you are alarmed with weapons of mass destruction in Syria why are you not concerned with the same weapons in Isreal.
Isreal is an oppressive nation who treats the Palestinians with brutality.
If you think the manifest destiny was started by Jesus you are a very disturbed or very uninformed person. By doing this you say God endorsed the genocide of a highly civilized and peaceful nation.
God’s call goes beyond our loyalty to our nation. Why so many people think America is somehow morally superior to me I don’t know. I guarentee you that teaching is not found in the Bible the Word of God. The United States has many wonderful attributes but it has many devilish evils as well.
Jesus’ teachings is the standard that Christians go by. When one is blinded by patriotism and promotes a theory that their own nation can do no wrong this is a great evil and diservice to God.
It is my conclusion from my exposure to you that you cannot properly discern and thus see things objectively. I will pray that God will open your eyes. All Christians must humble themselves and consider how the Allmighty views things. This is an extremely difficult and rare accomplishment and can only come by the grace of God.
God has a great love for all people. That is why he sent his son Jesus into the world. He wants us to live in harmony and peace with one another. Yet we are all not God’s children. Only those called out by grace are His. Certainly no nation has ever met that characteristic. Even in Old Testament times Isreal had many people who’s hearts were not with God.
Love,
John
john,
How do you know the Jews cannot trace or prove their ancestry? Can anyone else – the Palestinians – who moved there, do this in contrast? Do they keep official records? Where are they kept?
Why do you say the Talmud is evil? Have you read it?
John
if you are suggesting that Israel and the United States are just as brutal as Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Iran, Sudan, and Egypt then perhaps you should live over there for about 10 years. I have known african american men say that when they have returned to this country from over seas, they kissed the ground and thanked God. This was in the 60’s. We can recognize our problems and still be grateful for our country; this does not blind and render us incapable of judging monstrous behavior in other countries.
If in your opinion “we are just as evil” why are so many people desperately trying to get into this country from around the world?
Diane,
Hi hope you are well.
I suggest you read the book “Burry My Heart at Wounded Knee” by Dee Snyder. You will see how America’s brutality matched those of Hitler and Stalin.
I think you miss my point totally. Isreal and America are on the same level of those countries you mention in some ways.
Here in America we were alarmed by the attacks of nine eleven. I denounce those attacks as barbaric and brutal. Yet what about the ‘shock and awe’ campaign conducted by the United States? Was the bombing and slaughtering of civilians any different? Is it more evil that people die from an attack by airplanes than by bombs? Killing is wrong it is as simple as that.
I will be the first one to point out the evils of another nation. I recall watching John McCain’s speech on Cuba sitting in the lobby of a hospital. There he proclaimed that democracy must come to Cuba and in the process criticized the nation of Cuba. My immdediate reaction was why didn’t he or anyone else criticize the regime of Saudia Arabia. I expressed my thoughts to the woman at the front desk who watched the speech as well. She was in agreement with my observations.
Whatever nation you look at you will find evil. America is not an exception. Is America the greatest nation in the world because we have the strongest economy and milatary? Or is America the worst nation becauese we have more have more people in jail than any other nation? In fact America has more people in prison than communist China which has over three times our population. California would be number three if it was a nation unto itself.
The brutality of Isreal to the Palestinians is well documented. I likewise condemn the Palestinians terrorist attacks. Evil is evil no matter who does it. God has the solution and that is to ‘Love your neighbour’. And just to make sure it was understood Jesus said in Mathew 5:44 ‘To love your enemy.’
What I am saying is take off your rose colored glasses and look objectively without bias. This is a very difficult thing to do but it is essential to understanding the world.
The reason many flock to America is because of economic opportunity. It is not because of any elevated state of morality.
There is not a nation on Earth without it’s fault. The article raises an alarm about WMDs in Syria. Why not an alarm about WMDs in Israel?
As far as monsters go. What about the fact that the United States dropped more bombs on North Vietnam than were dropped in World War II. What about attacking Iraq without provocation? I certainly see faults in other nations but I have the ability to see them in my own.
Since I love my country I will try to make it adhere to the high standards that God has set for his children.
Love,
John
John
I do not see self defense as evil. The USA and Israel have been careful to try to avoid innocent civilians, and target just the militant groups. In any war, people will get hurt. But the main fault lies with the people who initiated the attack.
If we sit passively by, we will be destroyed.
Marianne,
Sigh!
Please explain to me how Iraq initiated an attack on the United States. The majority of the terrorists of nine eleven vcame from Saudia Arabia.
If you want to see how careful the United States was in protecting civilian casulties investigate Fallujah. (Forgive my spelling.)
The United States government is lying to its people. This is not a unique phenomana as I am confident all governments do so.
The truth of the matter is the United States invaded Iraq without provocation. Our government knew there were no weapons of mass destruction. And even if there were WMD’s we had no right to attack them anyway.
I’ll ask you this question, “Who would Jesus bomb?”
Love,
John
John,
Both Democrats and Republicans and the United Nations agreed that there were WMDS to begin with in Iraq. They were moved before the war to prevent detection.
Saddaam openly admitted to the “destroy Israel, destroy America” rant that we now see from Iran.
Sadaam collaborated with all terrorists groups against America and Israel. Sadaam himself was a terrorist, and needed to be removed.
AS a brutal dictator, he should have been removed.
Al Queda operated out of Iraq as well as Afghanistan. It is still there in Iraq.
John
God uses famine, plagues and war when dealing with nations. You may object to His dealings but that doesn’t change the fact that He uses these means to deal with evil. Do you oppose the US fighting in WWII and are you also opposed to law enforcement using guns?
Diane,
Hi hope you are well.
Yes God does use all those things you mentioned. And yes if there ever was a war worth fighting it was World War 2. The question though is what should a Christians role in all of this.
The only war that God sanctions in the New Testament is spiritual warfare against principalities on hign and not against flesh and blood. Ephesians 6.
Loving one’s enemy, turning the other cheek and bearing one’s cross constitutes the Christian’s walk. What if a Christian man went to war and on the battle field killed another Christian would that glorify God under any circumstances.
As far as law enforcement using guns that is another subject. I feel a Christian could participate in law enforcement. He is not going out there to kill people.
The problem we have is with objectivity. This article we are dealiing with deplores Russia for giving WMD’s to Syria. Even if that was true which I strongly doubt I must ask you this. Why do you not cry out against America for selling the most weapons of any nation on Earth. We sell weapons to Saudia Arabia a brutal Monarchy as oppressive as Sadam in Iraq.
Evil is evil no matter who does it. Use the same standards please. Isreal persecutes the Palestinians in awful ways. Yet there is no mention of a problem that they possess nuclear weapons.
Marianne I wonder where you get your facts from they are false.
Love,
John
Hi John,
I get my facts from the media, like you do.
Israel has weapons to defend itself. Notice it is not rash in using them against everyone that attacks it. If Palestinians had such weapons, they would have destroyed all of Israel by now.
You seem to favor the terrorists over the victims, in favoring Palestinians over the Israelis. The Israelis have been attacked unfairly by its neighbors since 1948, and has managed to survive by defending itself. It is biblical to defend the land of Israel against God’s enemies. Self defense is not evil. If the Palestinians would stop firing rockets and bombs into Israel, there would be peace over there.
John
you admit God uses war, you also have to admit that God used war as a means to deal with Hitler, which contradicts your personal belief that “God only sanctions spiritual warfare”.
Diane,
God used Babylon to destroy Isreal. Was God pleased with the nation of Babylon. No the truth is they were far from him. I do not disupte that God uses war and natural disasters for His own ends.
What I do dispute is the Christian’s role in the matter. “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” It is clear from this and the following passages our battle is a spiritual one not carnal.
The book of Acts and history prove that a Christian should not fight in a war of man. First of all if there ever was a man fighting for it was Jesus. But what did our Lord say. “He who lives by the sword will die by the sword.” Also before Pilate he says “My kingdom is not of this world; if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight….” John 18:36
The book of Acts shows Stephen martyred. Did he resist, not in the slightest bit. Alos the tradition of the martyrs show no physical resistance.
You have to view things from a spiritual point of view and not a carnal one. God loves all people. The way to conversion is through love. If there was a person who disliked you or even hated you and you just hated him in return what would be the outcome. Would that person come to know Christ. But if you loved those that hate you that person may come around see the light of God in you and repent. The same concept works with nations.
Now I don’t expect nations to be Christians though I wish they were. But when Bush says he won’t even talk to regimes who he deems as evil what will the outcome be. Is there any shame or weakiness in discussing matters. A strong man is confident and can meet with his enemies.
Love,
John
John,
We can love our enemies, but that does not mean we become their doormats, and allow them to do evil.
If someone was raping and murdering your wife or daughter, would you just sit by, and say a prayer? Or would you do something physical to stop them?
John,
Deborah, Barak, Joshua and David were God’s people, called to address certain situations with war. War is not a means for people to become born again, it is a means of judgement. Jesus does not condemn war, earthly governments, or local law enforcements.
Marianne,
There is a big difference between stopping somebody from raping another and dropping a two ton bomb on a neighborhood killing woman and children.
Love,
John
And also John
all nations are sinful but all nations are not at the same level of depravity in God’s eyes.
John,
Suppose the enemy is getting ready to, or already has, dropped a 2 ton bomb on you? Would you still do nothing?
marianne
Diane,
There is a difference between those living in the Old Testament covenant and the New. We no longer sacrifice animals as the Isrealites did. Why? Becasue Jesus became our perfect sacrifice.
Listen to these two scriptures about what the Word of God says about war. “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities against powers against the rulers of darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” Ephesians 6:12
Jesus speaking “My kingom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world than would my servants fight.”
Also “He who lives by the sword will die by the sword.”
Love
John
Diane,
I just gave you scripture. Now I will talk logically.
If there was an individual who disliked you or even hated you what would you do? Would you return his hatred. After all we reap what we sow. No the Bible is clear that we are to love one another. In loving your enemy that foe has an opportunity to see the Light of God in you and be converted. Hatred will only bring along more hatred.
What about George Bush refusing to talk to his enemies? How will peace or cooperation ever come out of that.
As far a levels of depravity it depends on who you are and where you live? If you asked somebody living in North Vietnam who the most wicked nation was I have no doubt they would say the United States of America. Why because we tried to bomb them back into the stone age. Also we massacred a lot of innocent people. In fact in Vietnam it was estimated the 70% of the killed were civilians. In Iraq the estimate is 90%.
Marianne I fail to see your point. Let me tell you this I have on a least two occaisions turned the other cheek when somebody physically struck me. The decision to bomb or not bomb people is not mine to make. If I was president when the World Trade Centers were attacked I would never have invaded Iraq and Afghanastan. Instead I would have let the para milatary try to find and bring to justice those who were responsible.
Do you know the Bin Laden was thought to be trapped in the mountains between Afghanastan and Pakistan. He escaped in part because we took resources away to invade Iraq.
The never was Al Queda in Iraq until after the invasion. The war in Iraq has tarnished our countries good name.
Man has been fighting wars since Cain slew Abel. All wars do is put off the problems until the next war. If war could solve our problems then we certainly would have solved them by now because we certainly have had enough war.
Can’t you be a soldier for peace? Soldiers in physical wars are willing to lay down their lives for the cause. Can’t you do the same for the cause of peace?
The scriptures without a doubt talk about “Turning the Other Cheek”. What was Stephen’s reaction when he was stoned. Did his brothers and sisters plot revenge?
The early church is full of martyrs who died willingly for the cause.
Love,
John
john,
Self defense is not an act of hatred. It is just self defense.
The terrorists are not interested in Jesus. They are not looking for the light of God in us.
Most of the killing in Iraq is done by Muslims against other Muslims. That will continue even if we leave. It was going on before we got there.
Regarding the World trade center, you said”
“Instead I would have let the para milatary try to
find and bring to justice those who were responsible.”
WHo might that be? Who are the paramilitary.?
Diplomacy does not work with terrorists. People have already done that and failed. They only understand violence. They want concessions, and give none. If we turn our backs after a terrorist attack, they interpret this as a victory and prepare for the next attack.
I think the best evidence that God approves of executing justice on the wicked is the Book of Revelation. Jesus will not turn the other cheek when he returns. He is going to destroy all the wicked nations in a time of wrath.
John
the sacrifice for sin has changed, but not the fact that God will use a nation to rise up against a nation, a fact you admit to, but condemn at the same time; then apply the Kingdom of God principals to earthly governments of men, while admitting you don’t expect nations to be christians. David may have lived by the sword, but God sent him into battle and Israel had peace from her enemies.
Are you also implying that our nation hasn’t tried diplomacy?
Marianne,
Your approach is not a Christian approach. Didn’t Egypt sit down with Israel and make peace. Before that the nation of Isreal did many terroristics activities. Isreal made peace with Arafat. Arafat was a terrorist. One man’s freedom fighter is anothers terrorist.
And when did you become an expert on terrorists? Perhaps if you sat down and listened to one or two opposing views you might learn something. Take for example Isreal. The Jews claim the land because it was their ancient homeland. The palestinians were living there for a long time. Is it a black and white issue? Nothing is that simple.
Let me ask you is it more evil to crash a plane into a building and kill thousands than to drop bombs on buildings and kill people? I could never imagine Jesus dropping a bomb and blowing up woman and children.
Diane,
Isreal was given a special mandate by God to take the promised land. There is certainly no decree like that today. War is an activity that no Christian should partake in. There will be wars and rumors of wars but that does not make them right. God has the remarkable ability to turn evil things and allow good things to come through them.
God commands us to fight with the Sword of the Spirit. That is the only weapon he has sanctioned.
As far as our nation conducting diplomacy it is Bush’s policy not to talk to ‘terrorists’.
Both of you should examine the history of how Europeans came to dominance in this world. You will see that their brutality matched anything that these ‘terrorists’ have done. There is a wrong and a right to improperly discern is not good.
Love,
John
John,
Duet 9:4
Do not think in your heart, after the Lord your God has cast them out before you, saying, ‘Because of my righteousness the Lord has brought me in to possess this land’; but it is because of the WICKEDNESS of these nations that the Lord is driving them out before you…
there were 2 reasons: God’s promise and the wickedness of the people. War was how God dealt with those inhabitants. In your opinion, is the will of Jesus conflicting here with the Father to drive out the inhabitants?
Yes God strives with with men, but when they become so wicked, God sometimes uses war to deal with them.
Was Jesus’ will conflicting with the Father when Barak was commanded to go and deploy troops at Mount Tabor?
Prayer is a mighty weapon and in response to our prayers God intervenes, & convicts our hearts to bring us to repentance, but when hearts are so evil, I reiterate, God uses droughts, floods, diseases, war etc.
John
Concerning the issue of diplomacy, the problem with the Arabs didn’t start with Bush. My question was a fair question, are you implying our nation hasn’t tried diplomacy?
Hi John,
Well, we certainly have different views. I will try to answer what you said.
–
–
–
Remember that Egypt was the aggressor against Israel initially, and so it was only appropriate that Egypt make a move for peace. However, the only reason it did this is because Egypt attacked Israel without cause, and then Israel defended itself and won. If Egypt had won the victory, there would have been much less friendly gestures on the part of Egypt.
–
–
–
Arafat had always been a hate monger and a terrorist. He was never a freedom fighter, and was from Egypt, not “Palestine.” Arafat also took all the financial aid given to the Palestinians and kept the money for himself. When he died, people tried to find out where he hid it, but could not locate it. Such a selfish evil person, and thief, would never be entitled to the name “ freedom fighter.”
–
–
–
The land of Palestine/Israel officially belonged to the British and it was legally transferred to the Jews after the holocaust in WW 2. Any land that the Jews moved onto was also paid for in advance by Britain and America, as they paved the way for the new settlers to come and live. Of course, the arab leadership kept the money for themselves, and never gave it to the people who lived there.
–
–
–
Remember, that there also has been a continuous jewish presence in Israel for the past 4000 years. The arabs came and went, but there were always jews that lived there. They are also to be considered “original Palestinians.” If you take a close look at Jews that have made aliyah, you will see both black and white and middle eastern appearance. There is a mix of color due to some intermarriage over time with other peoples. The Ethiopian jews are very black.
–
–
–
If you were to visit Israel today, it would be hard to tell the Jews from the arabs, in many cases. The arabs in Palestine also supported the holocaust that occurred in Germany. The grand Mufti personally met with Hitler to be sure the jews were killed so they could not escape and return to Israel Any immigration to Israel to escape was blocked by protests by the arabs. So 6 million Jews died because there was no place to go. Do you approve of this?
–
–
–
If you read the book of revelation, you will also see a different side of Jesus. He will do more than drop a bomb here and there when the wrath of God begins on this earth. Again, self defense has nothing to do with hatred. It has to do with survival.
Diane,
Who made you judge of wickedness. The United States is full of money worshiping people. That is idolatry a very serious sin.
I do not question God using war for his purpose.
I object to Christians participating in war.
Love,
John
God calls His people to judge between right and wrong, your opinions are not superior and ultimately God will determine whether our attitudes, motives and words are right.
You do not speak for the all vietnamese people nor for the oppressed and impoverished people of the Middle East. You do not know the Soveriegn will of God nor always recognize His dealings.
Your first comments were personal judgements condemning the Nations of the US and Israel, not “I object to ‘Christians’ participating in war”. To your judgements is what I responded to.
Diane,
No if you read closely I not only condemn Isreal and the US but rather I condemn all the countries in the MidEast and the world. Thus I condemn all nations. Every country in the world does things contrary to God. What is dangerous and I believe to be your problem is that you cannot see the wickedness right in front of you. Do you feel that in some way America is morally superior than any other nation? And if yes what is your basis for that assumption. If you looked objectively at what the United States has done milatarilly and through the CIA you would see our hands are quite bloody.
My whole problem with the article beside facts I dispute is that it points out that Syria having WMD’s is bad and never mentions the fact that Isreal has them. The article is not in my opinion objective just another case of yellow journalism.
I stand by scripture in saying a Christian cannot participate in war and be pleasing to God. The command to Love our enemies, alone is sufficent to figure that one out. You have not produced one New Testament scripture showing that God would be please with one of his children going off to war and killing people.
And Marianne as far as what is going on in Iraq as being a matter of self defense it is sad to realize you are not joking. We attacked a nation that did no evil to us. It is a blatant invasion of a country. I will admit that I am glad the Sadam Hussein is gone for power because he was an evil dictator. I fear however that this benefit will be lost in the excessive detrements that have proceeded since.
I am amazed at people claiming to be Christians who can’t grasp the basic tenets of Jesus. There is a spiritual walk and a carnal walk.
Love,
John
John,
Passivity in Christians is what has led to the moral decline of this country. Doing nothing about evil is just not Christian behavior.
Israel has proven to be responsible with the weapons it has. Its arab neighbors have proven to be untrustworthy, and dangerous. So yes, Israel has a right to be ready for an attack by 2 billion arabs.
John
I have stated all nations are sinful, you give the impression that all nations are at the same level of depravity, which is not true.
I have based what I have said on God’s Word, which you have considered irrelevant and have ignored questions asked in fairness.
Your statement “you cannot see the wickedness right in front of you” is sinful presumption on your part.
There has never been a time in history that a whole nation (every individual) has been righteous. There has been righteous leaders and individuals, those that reverence God, that had impacted society in a way that the people put away their idols, and brought God’s mercy. Yes those societies tend to be more civil than other nations that don’t reverence God. No these countries are not 100% sin free, but they are more civil.
God has heard the cries of His people that were oppressed, being threatened and attacked throughtout history, and sometimes He dealt with it by sending HIS people (people of faith) into battle with their oppressors. Unless you are saying Jesus opposes this, then you have to at least conclude that people who disagree with you, do so based on God’s Word.
John,
Diane and I have given reasonable and acceptable explanations. Please go back and review what has been said so far. Here is one outside link for a reference:
http://www.christianpost.com/article/20040420/6079_Is_War_Ever_Justified%3F_A_Reality_Check.htm
If, over the ages, Christians had improperly misinterpreted total passivity as Christianity, then by now Christianity would not even exist, because we would have been wiped out centuries ago.
Jesus did not mean that Christians just allow themselves to be quickly and easily destroyed.
Marianne,
Your thinking carnally not spiritually. Your assumptions are based on your reasoning and not the Word of God.
You have given explanations but I say they are not legitamate.
Do you believe what is going on in Iraq is an act of Love. We are to love our neighbors end our enemies. If you say yes then if the same things happen to you you should gladly accept it.
You are watering down the scriptures. You don’t have to answer to me but one day you will have to answer to God. Recall the story of the sheeps and the goats. The Lord says “Whatsoever ye have done to the least of them ye have done unto me.”
So when a young Iraqi man gets hauled off to prison without doing anything wrong or a bomb blows up a house killing its inhabitants you are in fact doing it to Jesus. Your support of a brutal invasion is support of the attrocities that the United States is doing.
You claim to be a Christian. Christians follow scripture. Give me the scriptures that validate your point of view. After all the Lord is called the Prince of Peace. Regarding talking to ‘terrorists’ the Bible also says ‘Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God.” You have stated we can’t even talk to ‘terrorists’.
Your thoughts and answers contradict what God wants us to do based on the Word of God.
Love,
John
John,
The USA does not hate the Iraqi people. WE are there to protect them from the terrorists, and give them a chance at democracy.
The brutality you keep mentioning is coming from the terrorists we are fighting.
If we left, the terrorists would continue to kill the local people.
We did not brutally invade the country. We went in to seek the WMDS, which ended up moved to Syria, but also to take out Sadaam, who was killing his own people, and to STOP the brutality.
You are listening to too much liberal and arab propaganda, which is basically the same thing. CNN is funded by arab oil.
John,
Please tell me the weapons that Jesus sent Joshua, David, and Samson into battle with? Samson killed many with a jaw bone, now we drop a bomb. Samson also through the Holy Spirit brought a whole structure down on Israel’s oppressors, killing everyone. The Father, Son (Jesus), and Holy Spirit did not send David into battle with their enemies with just prayer alone.
I have used these examples from Scripture and yet you state that what’s been said is not based on God’s Word.
No one is brought into the Kingdom of God through war…
People have to be born again through the Gospel of Jesus Christ…
God uses war as a means of judgement on a nation…
God uses His people as well as ungodly people to accomplish this..
God uses war as a restraint of evil, not as the solution….
God has done this throughtout history, not just before Christ…
John,
During the Revolutionary war British soldiers were killed, so according to you, christians who support that war are guilty.
According to you to be a true to God we have to condemn the Revolutionary war.
During the Civil war people were killed, so according to you, christians who support that war are guilty, and have to condemn the Civil war to be true to God.
During WWII people were killed, so according to you, christians who support that war are guilty, and have to condemn the war to be true to God.
According to you no nation is ever justified in participating in a war. John it is you who are in denial of God’s Word and His dealings with mankind.
Marianne,
If we are there to help them than why does the majority of the population want us out. I fear it is you listening to right wing propaganda.
Diane,
One more time I will state it there is a difference between the way things were between the Old and New Testaments. Read the first few chapters of Hebrews. I accept the fact the Bible teaches that God sanctioned physical warfare against nations. I have no problem with that it is an indistutable fact.
What I am saying is with the change of God’s convenant Christians are only sanctioned to fight in spiritual wars.
If you would like to believe that somehow the Untied States is doing God’s will in occupying Iraq that is your business. How you can discern God’s mind is beyond me. America in many ways is a very wicked nation.
Regarding the New Testament. John 13:34 “A new commandment I give unto you, that ye love one another, as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.”
How did Jesus Love. He came, preached the gospel, bore his cross and died. By carnal standards He lost the war. But we know through the Spirt that He rose from the dead triumphant. The victory is in that believers will share in the ressurection of the dead.
Notice the word ‘new’. Just one more example why Christians should not partake in war. It violates this ‘new’ command to love one another.
If you assist in saying things haven’t change from the Old Testament, I hope you watch you diet, sacrifice animals, observe the Sabbath and other feast days. More importantly I would have you read the book of Galatians.
Love,
John
Marianne,
Even though you are already aware of this, I just want to state this as a reminder to all of us that Deborah was not being carnally minded when the Spirit of God came upon her concerning Barak, nor was the Prophet Samuel being carnally minded concerning Saul and Amalekites. I understand where John is coming from, he raises good points that every christian must consider.
John though you raise good points, you are also dismissive of other points that are just as valid. You have raised the issue of objectivity, but haven’t demonstrated that objectivity in this conversation, and usually in conversations about the US, you tend to be anti-american, and presumptious that other commenters do not recognize the ungodliness of our Nation.
John,
I am a Christian who believes in law enforcement, and a nations right to have a defense. These laws and principals are clearly pointed out in God’s Word. Sacrifices for sin has changed, but the need for courts, armies, and law enforcements hasn’t.
John,
As Diane said, we have laws to obey. Allowing the killing of innocent people is a sin of omission. It is negligence to allow terrorists to kill innocent people.
The bible says that the law is not made for the righteous, but for the wicked, that they be brought under judgment. Christians are to obey to law.
Also, the protests you claim occur are not happening in Iraq, by Iraqi people. The protests are in America, because selfish people here want the money spent on themselves, not others. The protests are also politically motivated, since the Democrats want to get elected this time.
The Iraqis have expressed numerous times gratitude to America for liberating it. The only ones who protest are terrorists, and those deceived by them.
Religion has no place in this discussion. If that is the case then we should destroy our enemies and force the christian religion into the lives of others. Sounds wrong? That is what was done for hundreds of years. Those who failed to recognize the church were put to death. Now go ahead and defend those kinds of actions as being justified. If you are intelligent enough to see that it is wrong then you still follow a belief that is carried out by evil people including the pope. You let your religion blind you, only when you are outside the box can you see the impurities.
Iraq is nothing more than a proxy war and the real threat comes from Russia, Iran, Syria, North Korea, and China. It’s funny how the intelligence suggesting that Russian special forces did sneak out weapons has been overlooked. Perhaps that info should be kept under wraps to prevent a war with Russia at this time.
For all you believers out there, if you believe so badly then do not feel bad for the victims of war, they are with god right? The way everyone makes it seem, heaven is far better than anything on earth so how is it bad? Killing innocents is not a good thing but in war that is how it is and always will be. The sooner you all except it the better of your lives will be!
Dear Realist,
Did you see page 2 of this post? I have a “Click here for more” which bring you to the next page:
I am really not talking about religion here. I am just showing that there were WMDs in Iraq before the invasion, which was the initial reason for the invasion. As you read, you will see I am more involved with the political intrigue between nations, including Russian involvement,. Comments about Russia will not prevent or discontinue any conspiracies. The Russians have their own agenda, and they personally do not care what we think, nor will they be shamed or angry. They will continue to proceed with their political agenda, as if we do not exist.
You are quite upset about Christianity. As I see it, Christians have made more concessions than atheists have in our country. If there is a disaster, churches will be there to help you, sometimes before the government shows up. Remember, no one can do much about the distant past. All we can do make the present as positive as possible, and protect the innocent.
It is the terrorists that are intentionally killing innocent people, not the Americans or Christians. Radical propaganda declares lies, to turn the world into chaos. Be careful about heeding what they say. Our soldiers are trying their best to stop this destruction. They have saved many lives, built hospitals, protected Iraq’s natural resources, feed the poor, etc., as well as fought terrorists.
Currently, terrorists (Shiites) are fighting other terrorists (Sunnis) and creating a civil war. This is not the doing of American troops. Our soldiers are trying to break this up.
Take a look and see the rest. Even if you disagree, your comments are still welcome here.
blessings
marianne