A Personal Trip to Hell
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This is a personal testimony of a man who went to Hell, and witnessed, first hand, the torment there. His message is that Hell is a real place where people suffer.
And to tell everyone, that the Lord is coming back soon.
The video is about 1 hour long.
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Video provided by Abigail
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I had to change the video. The first one is no longer available
Heaven Awaits 
Wow, it’s so scary…
I don’t want to be there, ever!!!
My prayer is i want everyone in this world to my Lord Jesus, amin.
Btw, i’m from Indonesia. Can you pray for people here??
God Bless us …
Hi Esther
Yes I will pray for people there. I want everyone saved.
Ask the Lord to please relieve some of their torments especially if they got there by accident and let them know why maybe b/c they didn’t redeem the times wisely especially children or teens or due to no fault of their youth or ignorance. Send prayers without ceasing until judgement.
Ask jesus to let them know they are still loved despite how they got there.
I don’t think prayer helps those in Hell, only those in Purgatory. Once in Hell no chance of moving up at all.
hi montana
I do not believe prayer helps those in hell either. Purgatory is a different issue and could be discussed here. Some believe in it, but it is not mentioned in the bible.
There was originally a “place” in the underground where saints of the old testament went that was called paradise before the messiah came. Once he came, they were released and brought to heaven. After that, and now, we should go straight to either heaven or hell.
Purgatory is hell. Please catholics repent and stop worshipping your idols in Jesus’ name. It is not in the Bible – purgatory, it is just another word for hell.
MY NAME IS LYDIA NIEVES N IM A BORN BELIEVING CHRISTIAN I JUST WONNA SAY JESUS LUVS U OH SOOO MUCH N I AM SO HAPPY THAT U GAVE UR LIFE 2 JESUS LORD ALMIGHTY, N I LUV N ADORE MY LORD JESUS OH SOOOO MUCH AMEN N AMEN
Please pray for Dave. A neighbor whose stuck in new age beliefs, messing w astral projection. He is being deceived by satan. I want him to have a chance to repent and find Jesus. Spent many a hours in prayer for him. He dosnt realize what he is messing with. We know satan will use up and spit out souls like they’re nothing. But we are ALL precious in Gods eyes, and I want Dave to SEE and FEEL the eternal LOVE that JESUS has for him. Maybe Dave will have a testimony. Praise JESUS! Thank You all for prayers.
heidi
I am sending you prayer for unsaved loved one ( or friends).
print it out or download to computer, and say it everyday for Dave.
I will be in agreement with you in prayer.
Hi viewers,I’m a witness that hell is real. I had a dream that I was in hell waiting to be judge (let me explain in brief), while there I saw two friends that is deceased male and female. Well, my male friend had a tear in his eye that had dried up and would not fall, salava had dried up in the crack of his lips and he appeared to be in shock of the tourment that he was hearing,meanwhile my female friend it seems as though God allowed her to be conscience enough to let me know where I was and why I was there. Also,I can identify with the diffculities of the demon showed in the video( seen it also… it look just like that! WOW )the smell and having trouble breathing while in the bottomless pit called the waiting place of HELL (waiting to be judge). After God had finished showing me where I was I could’nt hardley breathe anymore I woke out of the dream having an asthma attcak, and today I’m saved by grace, saintified by his spirit and filled with his precious holy spirit. Thank God for the dream
dear Unek
Thank you for your testimony. The bible tells us that God speaks to us, and sends messages in our dreams, in order to warn and instruct us. You are blessed for the dream you had. I am so glad to hear you are saved now.
Yes, I will pray for your people in Indonesia. Jesus is coming!! Repent Everyone!!! Time is running out!!! Jesus is at the door!
Our Father who is Heaven
Hallowed be Your Name
Your Kingdom come
You Will be Done
It is not Your Will that people perish
Your Will is to have a family, a people
That do give you honor as we
acknowledge You as Creator of Heaven and Earth
We come to you Father and pray for Your Mercy
For all the families of those who do your Will
Amen
oh noooo.. poor man had BIG SCARY DREAM.
have you considered how much that fairly plush church must cost to maintain. they must be pretty desperate to convince the congregation to donate money.
of course they would never resort to trying to scare people…
oh wait..
You have two choices: You can believe in God and what His word says, or you can choose not to. Why would you be dumb enough to take the chance that the Bible is not true. If you choose wrongly, you will recive the rewards of your choice.
I am amazed at how much unbelievers who are headed to perdition try to justify themselves and comfort themselves in their sins by attacking the very element of life and Salvation as represented in the people of God. Sir, let me remind you that the Church is a spiritual building not a physical one. But the scripture fulfills itself in you ” The natural man recieves not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, neither can he know them because they are spiritually discerned (I Cor 2:14). Your unbelief only hurts and damns you, no one else. In Hell you are so humiliated you are worse than an animal, and the condemnation you have hurled here at the Lord will be visited upon you in fury and wrath, by a benevolent God you must punish all those who have rejected the pardon of mercy offered by the Eternal Throne and Him who sits on it in mighty splendor. You will see the nail scarred hands and tears of love as you witness the punishment of the wicked as an example of public justice displayed throughout the universe. Yes even in the flames He will weep for all who have rejected His pardon of mercy. Since God gave you a freewill, He even won’t violate it, much less the devil. He must honor all choices that humans make even if its the choice of mocking and rejecting Him. Mock His servants all you want, the memory of your words and your lost opportunities will ring down in the bowls of everlasting torment, and the worms that never die (Mark (9:43-48) will be a constant reminder of the futility and foolishness of all human endeavors outside of Christ to secure everlasting good. Mock all you want, He who sits in the Heavens shall laugh (Psalm 2:4). Pleeeeez refrain from your mockings, every idle word that you speak you will have to give account in the Day of Judgement, for by your words you shall be justified, and by your words you shall be condemned (Matt. 12-36-37) You are still alive to change this, the breath you breath God holds in His hand. Your heart does not beat on its own, but by the law of Benevolent love. May God’s Holy fire fall all and purify our hearts and to prepare us for the revelation of His coming, For our God is a consuming fire, (Hebrews 12-29)
What if there are soul openings due to mind altering medicines like Luvox or Xanax given for depression or anxiety and anesthesiology even an event at an emergench room that stopped the heart or made it weak that caused Jezebel witchcraft control more and more access unknowingly over a short time until the opression became demonic possession. Maybe God will have mercy on their souls during judgement. Pray he does especially if the soul didnt make it to heaven.
Tracy
Deliverance is always available to those who have been victimized by drugs. God understands they are sick and need healing.
THere’s a book that says there are Christians or believers that ended up in hell b/c they did something dumb like commit murder or had too much unforgiveness.
How sad do you stop and consider what’s at stake. You entry to heaven. To clarify the church does need money but I’m sorry you have have a wrong idea of diething and offering no one forces you to give. Gods the owner of all wealtj god words says leave your gift there before the altar and go. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. Come to terms quickly with your accuser while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison. Truly, I say to you, you will never get out until you have paid the last penny. (Matthew 5:24-26 ESV) I ask you this what’s bad about religion that you don’t like. The fact that god wants you to love you neighbor as you love your self. That he wants you to be wise in life and make prudent decisions that the bible teaches how to live a righteous life. That in the bible you find all the answers to your problems give your self the opportunity to experience our lords love it’s beyond anything you have ever felt. Living a Christian life is not a piece a cake it’s very difficult but when you have god he helps achieve things that we consider impossible but for the lord everything is possible. Gods nature is love cause he is love. I invite you to give it a try cause god loves you so much and he never stops!
look at body language and his eyes! this guy is a nut!
he’s clearly scrambling to sound convincing
Z
You do not have to worry about hell then. You will believe it is real when you get there.
Continue to pray anyway until the word or Jesus visits them for comforting.
nobody knows where we go when we’re dead or when we’re dreaming- as chad vangaalen once said.
any man who claims to have been taken out of his body into hell and witnessed 13 foot demons is clearly messed up in the head.
full stop.
Z
how do you know it is a dream?
what a fucking stupid question. because that’s what happens when you fall asleep.
how do you know (i can barely bring myself to type this) that he was taken by god to hell and witnessed 13 foot demons…
it’s unbelievable rediculous. only someone as incredibly gullible as you (and some of the other posters on here) would give it a moments thought.
Z
That is his story……if you had one, I would post that too, if I thought it would be of interest to people.
you do not know if hell exists or not, because this is an other world experience.
the only way to find out, and have proof, is to die, and you have not done that yet.
the issue is, if it is real, then how to avoid it.
if it is not real….then you are ok.
I just read your reply to Zarathustra,the only way to have proof is to die????do you yourself not believe what the Bible teaches??sounds like you need to apply a little belief and trust in the Word yourself!
Hi Deb,
Z is a frequent atheistic visitor.. He has commented on multiple posts. We have already been through the Word with him, and he rejects that as fairy tales. He also rejects personal testimony as foolish, and “lacking common sense.”
So dying is about the only option left to convince him, unless you can think of something besides the Word itself, and personal testimony.
i think our prayers too will help in changing him
You will see for yourself, then it will be to late to change your mind. Satan will say of you that he won this soul by default. The devil won’t send you there, you will do this on your own, He need not bother with you, your unbelief will destroy you unless you turn to Christ now before your mortal day has ended. Yes I have seen Hell also, how fast can you run from a burning house. I plead rather Christ pleads with you, be reconciled to God now, when you wake up you may find you are not where you left yourself.
Good advice. I hope people listen to you.
I’am so chocking é_è
the ISSUE is that the only people actively trying to convince people that it exists- using emotive, fearmongering ‘testimony’- are those who gain money and power from those they convert.
aside from obvious monetary motives, convincing others to believe in heaven (and by extension hell) provides a supporting group for people to commonly share their outdates and rediculous hopes for ‘salvation’.
z,
The existence of hell vs the behavior you might see in some people are 2 different circumstances. True, there are always those who want to make money off God or the bible. I hope you see, by the way, that everything I do here is free, and I do not ask for money.
Jesus spoke some about hell, and it is mentioned in the old testament as well, long before prosperity teachers came along.
if you do not like the people, and that influences your opinion, then just look at what the scriptures say.
Here is a bible word search for “hell” and this is what I got:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Criteria=hell&t=KJV
blessings
marianne
Z,
I dont have a “church building” or congregation asking or taking any money. My prayers for a neighbor I barely know have ZERO to do w financial or personal gain. I gain nothing . ITS DAVE who gains freedom from oppression, from hell, and gets ETERNAL SALVATION AND LOVE THROUGH JESUS CHRIST. Its FREE…no cost, no fee, just FAITH in Jesus as your saviour. I know their are apostate , money hungry, prosperity churches…but THEY ARE NOT SERVING THE ALPHA AND OMEGA CREATOR I AM! They are not serving JESUS. Those type of false ” Christians ” are working for satan , to deceive people like you. And they are VERY GOOD at it. Salvation is FREE , YOU get on your knees w and open honest true heart, ask forgivness for any sins, submitt yourself to Jesus with all FAITH turn your life over to him. Jesus will help you overcome all. Its not our human strength that can conquer sin, it HE ( JESUS) that
Dwells within us via the Holy Ghost that is stronger than the (EVIL) in the world. Satan has you blinded with his deceit. Jesus I ask you to block all mind blinding spirits attached to Z, so he can SEE the FREE GIFT and simplicity of eternal SALVATION and Love though FAITH in you Jesus. Amen!
why do you keep quoting the bible as if it holds some kind of infallible truth? the only way to extract meaning from a text is to READ IT.
even if the text itself was somehow “perfect” the very act of reading it means it has been twisted into a personal and fallible interpretation of that “perfect meaning”. the fact is, the text’s meaning is perfect when no one reads it- when it has no meaning.
z
interpretation is an event that occurs with every reading of every text.
You interpret what you read in school, right?
The bible reinforces itself, so that the proper interpretation is available.
Z is here to prove us all wrong but how does Z benefit from that?
hi Jill
Z is a student from a university. It is typical of that age to challenge and question everything, to see if we have the proof necessary for a valid argument. True, some things are by faith, but he is not there yet. He wants facts first.
zarat be careful of what you say against the word of GOD. If he doesnt show you his mercy, you can take it to the bank, that hell is where you are going to spend eternity.By the way what does the great zaRAT believe in.
I’ve seen bits and pieces of his testimony before and it’s stunning. There is another story called the Lazarus Phenomenon which posits some interesting visions on hell. Theres also Mary K Baxter and her books on heaven and hell. Yet for all their intrigue and vivid details, I’m skeptical about whether these visions are from God. Please dont take offense, Marianne; I know you are just presenting some fascinating material and spurring discussion. There is no doubt in my mind that these people saw SOMETHING. There is no doubt in my mind that these people had life changing experiences. But the Bible doesnt contradict itself at all. The Bible tells us that hell was prepared for the Devil and his angels; there wont be any demons with pitchforks or pointy tails torturing people as conventional thoughts on hell would lead you to believe; they themselves will be the one in torment. The second point of contention I get from the scripture is the story of the rich man and Lazarus. Why if the Lord refused Dives (the rich man) an opportunity to leave hell and warn his brothers, would he allow these others in generation to go to hell so they can warn others? Yes, were closer to his coming and the world is unraveling, but the Bible is full of warnings of hell. Isnt the authority of the word of God enough of a warning? They have Moses and the prophets, if they dont believe them, they would not believe though one would rise from the dead.
HI amardo
I understand what you are saying. for one thing, I think this man was already saved when he had this experience, so to keep him in hell would not be fair of god.
also, God is sovereign, and can make decisions we may not understand. He makes the rules, and can use them for whatever purpose he wishes, and do “new things” at his pleasure.
since I have not been to hell, I cannot back up anything, but he did seem to present some scriptures to back up the kind of experience he had.
so let us just hope this message reaches those who need it.
blessings
marianne
This one didn’t die, he had a vision, one like Peter, Paul and John had.
That’s where the rich man is, hell, he’s not a demon, right?
demons are different from humans who are sent to hell for their sins. Demons are fallen angels.
Also, thanks for pointing out the video does not work now. Google must have removed it. I tried to substitute another video, but it will not be the same.
The message given to a man of God to deliver is not always pleasant. The Holy scriptures are full of these.
False prophets were known to give sugar coated messages. God was not very pleased with those.
Isaiah 9;20 for an example.
I am sure and even certain that this was not a pleasant word to give. Just as an example.
Good point Abigail. What happened to Jonah when he refused to deliver God’s message?
zarathustra, what about texts for which no derivation or interpretation is necessary? For you to equate reading a text with reading into it shows a certain misunderstanding of the principles of reading. But then, I can hardly expect clarity of thought from someone so debilitated in mind that they have to TYPE profanity. While your bravado and bile may tickle your fancy, it brings into glaring light your own insecurities. Further, few would be so dimwitted to deny the authenticity of such works as the Iliad, the Odyssey or the various works of Plato- for the simple fact that there are so many independent sources of similar age that cite them. The Greek independent sources that cite the New Testament alone surpass the combined “proof texts of the aforementioned works by a factor of two (thats twice as many, for you). If you look at the number of total proof texts, that number jumps to a staggering 25,000. Only an intellectual sluggard could deny such evidences. Further, the Bible boasts scientific knowledge on gestation, astronomy, geology, oceanography and anatomy that werent widely known or known at all by the scientific community in some cases for thousands of years. The Bible’s knowledge of astrological orientation and time is equalled by no other culture. The Bible is the only “sacred text” that posits its veracity on its ability to predict the future. Not one of the prophesies in the Old Testamant for a specific time or about a specific event has ever been proven wrong. And I’m not talking about forcing square truth into round Nostradamus style predictions; I’m talking prescience. That any sane individual could deny the authority of the Scripture is not a sign of their intellect or choice but of a blind unwillingness to accept truth. It must sting to be so wrong in the face of such evidence. I imagine that it hurts your little feelings to continue to throw cyber tantrums about the nasty wittle Christians who wont let you rail against their God. I pray for you, friend. More than that, I feel sorry for you. Maranatha
Amardo
good summary on the truth and reliability of the bible.
WOW! :)…you know, what he said! 🙂
Armado, the language of a critic like Zarathustra clearly betrays his mindset and his hatred of God. As far as the heavens are above the earth so far are my thoughts above your thoughts. It seems that Zarathustra wants to add even more to it by debasing himself.
1 Corinthians 2:14 14 ¶ But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Zarathustra is a good example of that.
You’re absolutely right, GYOD, I couldnt have said it better myself. All we can do is pray for him and hope that God reveals himself to him.
Hi, I remember having read the book “A Devine Revelation Of Hell” by Mary K. Baxter some years ago. That really impressed me a lot. For interested readers, I have searched the net and found a reference at http://spiritlessons.com
Be blessed (and alarmed)…
Thanks Harald
Several people have recommended that book, so yours is confirmation. I hope many read her book. I need to do this also.
blessings
marianne
I have great news to our brothers and sisters in Christ. Mary K Baxter who wrote of her depictions of scenes enacted beyond the grave in The Divine Revelation of Hell, has mentioned in her other book, Divine Revelation of Deliverance, that a full length feature film of top proportions almost like the passion, on the Book Devine Revelation of Hell is going to be made. God has instructed her to write the manuscript which is now completed and soon going into production. This will be no B-rated film, but a quality and techno supreme dipiction, most likely in 3-D. Everything we have read in this book will be presented in graphic detail in order to imprint on the mind and emotions the seriousness of escaping this horrible place. With all the special effects and computer graphics plus 3-D, then on top of it, and get ready– WOW A powerful anointing and manifest presense of the Holy Spirit and the glory of God, that people will cry out for mercy in the movie theatre. We better be ready to lead these people to Christ, for to reject God’s offer of pardon thru our Lord Jesus Christ after seeing this may be disasterous for some. Conviction will seize sinners as the arrows of the almighty are piercing thru their hearts, and they will find no rest for their tormented souls until they get Christ, and are wonderfully and gloriously converted, then they can recieve the Holy Spirit’s baptism of anointing and power to convince their families and friends of the urgency to make their peace with God. This I believe is part of this national revival and awakening hitting this nation in concurrent to tribulation and darkness. The two, light and darkness, wheat and tares will mature together. Please see Isaiah 60:1-2) With all the things that are happening in the world, Iran, North Korea, Russia building up their nuclear forces, rise of the Islamic antichrist, and the War looming in the middleeast, with Isreal surrounded with armies. (See Zechariah 12:1-6), Please don’t be alarmed or afraid, our God promised to take care of us as long as we dwell in the secret place of the most High. (Psalm 91:1). The persecutions and opposition we may face will make Jesus more famous, and many will cry for the Savior, and signs and wonders will abound. Jesus is now being revealed as our King. He is about to leave His mediatorial throne and enter into judgement with the nations, then the Gentiles will come to the light of our rising (Isaiah 60:3). The Divine Revelation of Hell, The Movie look for it,you think the passion had an impact, God bless you all.
Zarathustra, your posting are pitiful tries to convince you that this is all not true. It is simply not true that only those warn people of hell that hope to get money from them. It is far easier to weigh people in a false sense of security and talk them out of their money. If we choose what to believe on the grounds of what we like or not we will be most certainly deceiving ourselves. Hell as it is pictured is more than the mind can handle, but unless you can successfully resist God you will have to deal with reality as it is. Everything else will be to your own disadvantage. Marianne told me that you are into the Zoroaster philosophy/religion. As long as you stick to such a thing you will be in rebellion to God and refuse his offer of peace.
This guy is not scrambling to sound convincing. He is calm and sober and I sure this experience is still very fresh in him so he has to try not to become hysterical.
You live in a false peace that everything will be ok. Wake up!
amardo and gyod,
texts for which no interpretation is necessary? that is a fantasy. the point i made, and which you clearly missed, is that the very nature of reading- and of experience in general- is subjective.
the “slipping” of the meaning beneath the signifier can be to some extent combated by attempting to understand or to empathise with the mindset of the author. this is obviously impossible, but making an attempt can help us to come closer to the meaning they are likely to have intended given the social and historical circumstances.
i am in no way questioning the ‘authenticity’ (e.g. existence) of the bible, as written by many different authors from many different periods of history. the bible is a fascinating melting pot of history, myth and mysticism- an attempt to communicate truth about the world using the language and imagery of the time(s). my point is that many people on this forum appear to be swallowing the bible whole. there is no literal meaning to be gleaned. claiming that the world was made in seven days “because it says so in the bible” is nonsense. what exactly was the measurement of a day before the sun existed? many such statements are empty rhetoric.
what is all this nonsense about “few would be so dimwitted to deny the authenticity of such works as the Iliad”. in what sense are you using the word ‘authenticity’ here. it exists and it was written by an individual (individuals) just as the bible was. the thing which is dimwitted is claiming that one set of myth is somehow more “true” than another. it is only the everyday use of christian images and language which prevents people from looking at them and judging them with the same rational eyes as any other world religion. we scoff at ‘primitive’ religions who claim that a dungbeetle rolled the world into being or that the world hatched from an egg when our own creation myth is just as rediculous. we scoff at the worship of monkey gods and multi-limbed deities in pantheistic eastern religion and yet we fail to see the same illogical primordial mindset in a roomfull of people imagining that their wine has literally transformed into the blood of a man who was brutally murdered 2000 years ago, chanting along in monotone about eating his body and drinking his blood- viewed from the outside christianity is a bizzare kind of vampire cult, gaining strength from the blood of it’s great leader. any claims made for the scientiic insight of the bible are immediately dwarfed by the repression of free thought and illogical superstition which follows christianity like a shadow. the inquisition, the salem witch trials, the modern christian cults erecting museums teaching that dinosaurs lived alongside humans…
“Not one of the prophesies in the Old Testamant for a specific time or about a specific event has ever been proven wrong”. name one prediction specific enough that it has verifiably been proven right?
“I imagine that it hurts your little feelings to continue to throw cyber tantrums about the nasty wittle Christians who wont let you rail against their God”
haha! what a charming outburst. there is no need to rail against things which don’t exist. yes i occasionaly visit this site for crude entertainment- some of these posts are as laugh out loud funny as they are scarily ignorant. the only thing i am “railing” against is the incredible closed mindedness of people like marianne. i am glad to find someone like yourself who seems at least capable of logical argument (dubious as some of your claims may be).
i very rarely comment on anything on the internet as it is a huge waste of time (this post has been a huge but reasonably enjoyable waste of time) i found it necessary to try and make myself heard when i stumbled across this site and found marianne, in some cases, using her evangelising as a thin screen for petty scaremongering, xenophobia and racism. as well as the disemination of ufo stories and bizzare urban myth pseudo-science as some kind of evidence for whatever topic she chose to blunder into.
i think you will see amardo that GYOD’s interpretation of zoroaster as “rebellion against god” is exemplary. another philosophy or religion is clearly incapable of holding any meaning as it isn’t branded with the christian stamp!
for the record i know nothing about zoroaster- my name is taken from nietzsche’s ‘thus spoke..’.
from a purely aesthetic standpoint, the smug holier than thou moralising, right wing inmperial, american dream christianity on display in that video actually makes me feel a little bit sick. that guy giving testimony is an absolute creep! exactly the type of guy who looks like he will eventually be exposed as a peadophile or a covert crack addict (as a surprising number of these supposedly upstanding citizens are). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Haggard
gyod: “Zarathustra, your posting are pitiful tries to convince you that this is all not true.”
!!
that is barely even a sentence, are you any relation to lennie from ‘of mice and men’?
i think i’m done. seriously though amardo, you follow logic up until the crucial point and then throw it all away, why?
Z, if by throwing logic away you’re referencing that I would pray for you, let me state that I feel no breach in logic there. If I believe prayer to be an aid to you, then my belief is no less feckless than yours to the contrary. Regarding my inference about the Iliad and the Odyssey, yes, they exist; their authenticity lies in their universalism. While there may be slight variations, the stories are roundly uniform. Go to any high school or the equivalent anywhere in the world and mention Jason and the argonauts and you’ll receive a fairly homogenous recounting of the major points. That no one discounts the notion that a sorceress changed one of the argonauts into a swine as anything more than quaint myth, but a myth whose retelling is worth its continuity in literature is poignant evidence to its authenticity, its acceptability. Yet asserting that an all powerful God chasmed the Red Sea to create passage for his people and you are met with disturbed cries of abuse, intolerance and straight out wack jobbery. I dare so no book is so maligned as the Bible. It takes stones to use it as a source of information. People by and large regard the Bhagavad Gita or the Koran or Kybalion with the sort of wide berthed attitude that a Toyota owner might give a Honda owner- “not for me, but if it works for you…fine” These same people will assert their right not to be prosyletized with an otherworldly jingoistic frenzy. Viewed from the lense of the secular mind, destruction of culture or the sacrifice of animals or the gruesome narrative of the crucifixion is almost tmi. Yet viewed with the mind that an all powerful God is above all things holy and that the understanding of holiness refuses to be mutually exclusive of the existence of sin, things take another turn. One may then see that the peopled nations werent destroyed because they were savages, but because they occupied land promised to a holy people. The understanding of the holiness of God requiring the destruction of the sinner brings an understanding that a sacrificial animal can be the avatar for sinful man and that finally the incarnation of this perfect and infinite God into flesh to be the vicarious offering for the sinfulness of all men (an infinite God, bearing as it were the punishment for infinite numbers of men) the principle message of the Bible takes on a new voice. It isnt blind slavery that is the clarion call of allegiance to the God of the Bible and his word, it is the understanding that his word illustrates what is most meaningful to a man or woman faced with death- the opportunity for life. I give as well as I take so I’d never get bent out of shape by your comments, but at the core of my teasing is the effort to present what to an objective man have become the undenibale truths in life, the message that has changed this life-that I, condemned to die because of my sinfulness, have a chance at life. What could be more sublime than that? You arent convinced of your own death sentence and as such cannot ascribe to it more than a disinterested scorn. Yet for all the asperion you’ve case on Christianity and despite Nietzsche’s assertion that Christianity has turned all value to worthlessness, let’s look at some things that it is responsible for. The Red cross is a direct result of Christianity; too the standards for sanitation in healthcare. Christianity is responsible for the establishment of hospitals as an outreach of the church. Compare this with the nihilistic decrial of the sick as unworthy to live that comes with agnosticism. Christians were preeminent in the abolishing of slavery. If one does not acknowledge the worth of a man as being created in the image of God, he cannot, he WILL NOT afford him with decency and freedom. In the field of science as I’ve touched on recently, Christianity offered a tangible and accurate view of the natural world; that it has value and is worth studying. The ennui and listlessness that come from a worldview that doesnt include God is at odds with any substantive study. How, if the universe and all its denizen are an accident and without meaning, do you reconcile this notion with any desire to understand it at all? I could go one, but I want this post to be read. I can hardly wait for your response. Maranatha.
I feel bad for zarathustra…there’s so many people who think we, as Christians, have no intelligence because we believe God IS real and Jesus IS real…And they think they are soooooo intelligent because they can ramble on and on with long drawn out answers and different theories…
It seems like there are more and more of these ‘coffeehouse smarties’…So so sad.
zaruth- If you’re right, I guess everything is fine and dandy… But I hate to tell you you are wrong! Have you EVER been wrong? If so, isn’t this kind of a BIG THING to be wrong about? Considering your choice is ETERNAL???
I have SEEN and EXPERIENCED first hand miracles in my life… I’m not talking about what someone else has seen or what I’ve heard about… But what’s SAD is some people just won’t believe until its TOO LATE…And then they will CRY OUT to Jesus… And it will be too late! Judgement will be set!
See: http://www.spiritlessons.com/Mary_K_Baxter_A_Divine_Revelation_of_Hell.htm#Into_Hell
AND… http://WWW.SPIRITLESSONS.COM
WOULD THESE PEOPLE REALLY DEDICATE THEIR ENTIRE LIVES TO TELLING OTHERS ABOUT THE TERRORS OF HELL UNLESS THEY WERE SINCERE? No…
I feel so so so so so sad for the atheists in this world.
Turn to JESUS before its too late for you people…
It’s occured to me that I left some things out. I’ve heard the argument about understanding the length of time in a day without a sun. This is a fallacy of denying the antecedent. If it can be said that God created the world then it also must be that he would have known the length of time it took to create it. The creation as recorded in Genesis isnt a collection of stories whose authority or relevance exists by fiat, but they were details recounted by the only one there, God to the author of the book, Moses. The word for day used in the first 2 chapters of Genesis (Yom) is the same Hebrew word used explicity for other periods of 24 hours. We Christians place Christianity on a plane that no other belief can occupy because Christianity alone presents man as the creature of a moral and perfect God. The gods of other religions mirror the wretchedness of men and bear the signatures of their creators-caprice, vice, pettiness, immorality and abominable disregard for human life. Make no mistake, the God of the Bible is no benevolent sky fairy, spying on people and granting wishes and toppling the devices of men in tantrum; there is purpose in his actions that is a manifestation of his character. The obverse of holiness is wrath; the just desire to extinguish all that is not holy. God has been mischaracterized as a meany by people who dont desire to understand his principle identifier, holiness. This mischaracterization extends so some of the most repugnant acts carried out in the name of service to God. I’m sure there are some nice ones, but I make no bones about saying that Catholicism and the cult of Mary is a system of rank heresy. Some say that it’s a mixture of old religions and Christianity. But Christianity will not play nice with others. Any “Christianity that makes room for ought but the teachings of Christ and the foundation of the church is idolatry. Unfortunately, much of what people think of as Christianity is the poison seed of the cult of Mary. (Think about any movie that involves a conflict between “good and evil”; 9 times out of 10 the representative of good will be a priest or a nun.) Apropos, the Inquisition-carried out at the behest of the Catholic church, the Salem witch hunts-offshoots of what was originally Catholic doctrine and writing (the insidious and insipid Maleus Maleficarum). Denomination doesnt matter but Catholic aint Christian. Museums that highlight Creation rather than evolution use as the researchers some the best minds in science. When you begin with the supposition that there is no God, your findings must reflect that. Witness the tomfoolery of the Hadron supercollider whose sole purpose is the positively proove the Higgs Boson or “God particle”. I explained in greater depth the theory of the God particle on another post. Suffice it to say that for all the staggering amounts of money spent on proving the existence of life elsewhere, the findings are more than a failure. What about the circular reasoning used in estimation of artifacts? Radio carbon dating is an embarassingly inaccurate means of aging. There are virtually no carbon molecules in a fossil bone. So the date is a best guess. “We have here a bone that is 3 million years old. ‘How do you know it’s that old?’ The rock we found it in is that old. ‘How do you know the age of the rock?’ Well we’ve found 3 million year old bones in it.” I wish I had made that up. How any scientist can claim with a straight face to have found a trilobite for the Permain period is beyond me. When I was a child, scientists said dinosaurs walked the earth 60 million years ago. That number has jumped to 70 million now. A hundred years ago even secular scientists would never have asserted that the earth was eons old. The dramatic change in estimation is less a factor of the advancement of technology than it is the inclusion of another religious system- scientific atheism. As to the area of prophecy, Daniel predicted the outcome of national supremacy so specifically, he named the king who would invade Babylon. I dont mean vague approximations (Nostradamus wrote Hister so he must have meant Hitler) I mean a one to one reading of his name. Isaih predicted the rebirth of Israel 2500 hundred years before it occured and predicted it would occur in a day. Jesus predicted the destruction of the temple of Jerusalem some 35 years before it occured. Even to the extent that the very stones would be toppled. The fires of the invading Roman army burned with such alarcity that they melted the temple implements. The hoardes pried the stones apart to render the molten gold. That kind of detail isnt happenstance. By the time the temple was destroyed, the words of Jesus had already been written and circulated for more than a dozen years. John predicted an army of 200 million plus infantrymen from the east at a time when the population of the entire world wasnt 200 million. China now has such a militia. This is hardly clutching straws, no other nation in the world could mount that size force. In God’s progressive revelation of himself to man his overtures have become more forceful and more difficult to deny. On what basis do you continue to deny them now? Maranatha.
Maybe Z is not an astronaut. Maybe Z is not a philosopher, nor a scientist, nor a doctor.
Maybe Z only uses one side of the brain. Maybe Z thinks that mankind only has five senses and that’s it. Maybe Z thinks that man is only compose of dust matter. What a shame if he thinks that way, because it would be as a little wave riding upon the ocean and not aware that he is part of that ocean. Thinking to himself that he is alone and has to fight against what supports him and what he is made of and what he is part of. It must be a lonely life for Z not knowing that he is sustained by the very essence that he denies.
Z when The Almighty created all that exist as He Hovered over all that is good, He also thought of you. He also thought of you when He rose from the dead and said
“blessed is he who have not seen yet have believed. ”
There is more to life than this mere physical existence and you cannot know this magnitude until you embrace it.
Dear Readers:
Prediction/Prophecy:
Upcoming CHOREOGRPAHED War With Russia: US Population Expendable
Evidence: (headlines from TODAY…March 22nd)
“Russians to be asked to explain Arctic operations”
http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Canada/2009/03/22/8843701-sun.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
“US Naval Ships In Sea Of Japan Buzzed By Russian Planes”
http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=3706e111-df68-49da-8230-a71038e77613
>>>>>
Friday, March 20th
“Russian Bombers Test Cruise Missiles”
http://www.globalsecuritynewswire.org/gsn/nw_20090320_9861.php
From Thursday, March 19th
“Russian Planes Overfly US Carrier”
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2009/03/russian-planes.html
>>>>>
And lastly, from the Ted Turner network from
February 27th:
“Canadians intercepted Russian bombers before Obama visit”
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/02/27/canada.norad/
>>>>>>>>>>
I’m fading
And I call out
No one hears me
I’m hiding
In the Fallout
They don’t want me
They don’t need me
They don’t hear a word I say!
The pot sure got stirred on this one, but you know what? Jesus is coming again…
NO MATTER WHAT ANYONE SAYS THE IMPORTANT THING IS WHAT GOD SAYS IN HIS WORD . DEAREST CHILDREN IF GOD SAYS THERE IS A HELL THEN THERE IS A HELL . HE ALSO TELLS US HOW TO AVOID GOING THERE. TO HAVE FAITH TRUST AND BELIEF THAT HIS SON JESUS CHRIST IS HIS SON WHO HE SENT TO EARTH AND WHO WILLINGLY LAID DOWN HIS LIFE FOR ALL OUR SINS IS ALSO A VERY REAL TRUTH AND IF WE WILL ACCEPT HIM AS OUT LORD AND SAVIOR AND SHOW THAT WE TRULY LOVE HIM BY DOING WHAT HIS WORDS SAY BECAUSE WE LOVE GOD WITH ALL OUR HEARTS , ALL OUR SOULS AND ALL OUR MINDS WE WILL BE WITH HIM FOREVER AND EVER AND WE WILL NOT GO TO HELL . SEE MATTHEW: 22-37
SP. CORRECTION: ACCEPT HIM AS OUR LORD AND SAVIOR
Z.
You trust in your own philosophy. Christians trust in the free gift of God’s son Jesus for salvation. You can continue to put your self on the throne of your own life, and one day lose it to later find the kind of suffering and pain this post describes. Or you can humble yourself, and put God’s word and way in control of your life, and find eternal life through Jesus Christ.
I pray you will choose life and surrender your thought life to a search for truth that surpasses your understanding.
Blessings,
great description of hell.
although hell is not “God removed from the equation…” as he suggested. it’s much worse BECAUSE it’s about God… it is HIS HOLY WRATH. God created everything, including the lake of brimstone. otherwise, where did it come from? “absence” of God would simply be dead nothingness. (like an atheist might believe about the afterlife.)
i believe about the tormentors/executioners being lowest creatures and tormenting… but if they are demons and the lowest creatures, they won’t be laughing like in the 3 min clip… they will be suffering worse hell than any person.
i’ve met these people who don’t believe in hell. they say that Jesus used the word referring to a valley outside Jerusalem that was used as a garbage dump, and possibly a place to put murderer’s dead bodies, and possibly regularly burned… (this is correct), but note that Jesus also spoke of everlasting damnation… so this is one and the same.
as for the guy whose prayer was answered… i thought that (according to scripture), ppl don’t go to hell until AFTER judgment day… before that they just wait in Hades, which is NOT hell.
if you’re Elect, you’re Elect… you simply give diligence to make SURE of your calling and election… assurance only comes to those who actually pass the tests in 1 John, and in 2 Peter 1… and only the Elect will find that assurance.
not all who say “Lord Lord”… and not all who confess… even the demons confess Christ.
amardo
“Regarding my inference about the Iliad and the Odyssey…”.
i don’t know why you’ve chosen the word “authenticity” here, it seems to be completely inappropriate for the point you are making. the bible, iliad, odyssey, ovid’s metamorphosis etc. are all equally “authentic”. we can reasonably assume that they were written by the people we think they were written by in the time in which they are believed to have lived. surely the property “authenticity” refers to them not being “faked”? i can’t see how the word can have any other useful meaning. they are all amalgams of various elements- myth, history, philosophy, early science etc. by attempting to critically interpret them bearing various historical and social factors in mind we can come to some understanding of their intended meaning- the word for this in relation to the bible would be exegesis. treating the word of one religious text as holding more “truth” than another is ridiculous in principle because no text holds truth as a property of itself, “truth” or “meaning” is extracted from it through it’s interpretation. my point is that exegesis extracts more useful and (realistic is probably the wrong word) realistic meaning than literal interpretation.
the reason people shake their heads in disbelief when you “assert” that an all powerful god parted the red sea is that you believe it to have literally happened- that is what the word assert implies is it not? no one in their right mind asserts that the metaphorical stories of other mythological systems literally happened. their wasn’t a person named “echo” who could only repeat the last words of what another person said, this is a fable to try and explain something about the nature of our experience. treating the bible as somehow holding “more meaning” in the supernatural sense is ridiculous because it leads to circular argument- e.g. why do you believe the bible to be true- because i’ve experienced the god of the bible. how do you describe and understand your experience of god- through the message of the bible. if in fact you are not claiming that the myths of the bible are any more true than any other myths then what is your point?
“One may then see that the peopled nations werent destroyed because they were savages, but because they occupied land promised to a holy people”
given your tone in the preceding and following sentences it seems you are attempting to prove that the culture of christianity has more inherent value because “god promised them land” occupied by other people. i would remind you that history is written by the victors. what you have provided here is not an explanation of HOW one culture decides it is better than another- that explanation is simple- what WE do is “good” therefore we create god in OUR image, labeling him “good” as an external symbol of OUR own morality. now we can praise ourselves and our nation under a supernatural banner invested with the qualities which we ourselves hold. we kill people and take land in the name of “god” e.g. our moral code and national pride. we label ourselves HOLY and label our enemy SINNER, writing the scripture which proves it as we go. this is a fairly obviously observable fact of social science.
“It isnt blind slavery that is the clarion call of allegiance to the God of the Bible and his word, it is the understanding that his word illustrates what is most meaningful to a man or woman faced with death- the opportunity for life”
very true- it is partially sighted slavery. we are all faced with death- it is a predicate of the existence of life. life and death are opposed and therefore define each other by their mutual existence. the opportunity for life (what i suppose you would refer to as ‘mortal life’) is presented by the very fact that it will eventually end. it is a predicate of life that it is temporary. if you attempt to give life the property of being eternal it ceases to hold any meaning. life as we understand it is subject to constant change- the passing of time. eternity is the absence of time- without time there is no change. our experience of the world is one of bodily experience- time may well be a property of the world projected onto the world by our experience of it- this experience however is the only one we have access to and understand. eternal life is not life at all- it is simply another phrase for the concept “something i don’t understand”. a man or woman who hopes for eternal life is always to some extent negating life in the present, trading in any real vivacity for security against the fear of death.
“what to an objective man have become the undenibale truths in life, the message that has changed this life-that I, condemned to die because of my sinfulness, have a chance at life. What could be more sublime than that?”
your description of yourself as an objective man, to me signifies that you are looking at the world through simple spectacles. there is no such thing as objectivity, the very nature of our experience is that it is in all aspects subjective- being as it is- filtered through the experience of us the subjects. the objective is a self enforced and necessary illusion- we cannot live by constantly questioning the existence of everything- but when push comes to philosophical shove we must do exactly this. the standpoint of total scepticism the the only one which is entirely defendable purely because it makes no claims.
the fact that you are condemned to death- as we all are- is precisely what gives you a chance at life- meaningful life as defined by death as it’s end. if life doesn’t end, it is not life in any meaningful sense as illustrated above.
i certainly treat my own imminent death with seriousness, it is a terrifying prospect and one which regularly spurs me on- to get on with living while i have the chance. (something which i have been doing to the fullest during the time in which i was not frittering away hours writing messages on here, but here i am back again mainly to clarify these points to myself through explaining them aloud) i do not underestimate death, there is a reason why men at the firing squad shit their pants. facing it as the ultimate mystery- likely the ultimate end of your animal consciousness- is doing it justice. attempting to escape through the invention of an “afterlife” is not ‘dealing’ with the question of death, it is simply inventing a fanciful plug which you imagine will fill a gaping and impossibly large hole.
“The Red cross is a direct result of Christianity”
charity is not the exclusive property of religion, there are many examples of charities which are strongly secular- amnesty international being a good example. the christian and secular camps both have there positive and negative examples of charity- it is clearly a fallacy that secularism is synonymous with a “survival of the fittest” mentality- something which is exemplified by the number of fundamental christians who are extremely right wing and, conversely, the number of sceptics who are liberal/ socialist.
i’ve run out of time to write this but i may return to answer the rest of your posts.
xx
Wow Z,
You sure are articulate.. Too bad that hell is full of people who know it all! May the Lord remove the blinder from your eyes so you can see, know and comprehend the TRUTH! After all, Jesus died for you too!
hell is a place which exists only in your imagination, if you want it to be full of people who know it all (possibly to make you feel better about being an inarticulate dullard) then by all means go ahead.
jesus didn’t die for you, he died to prove a point about pacifism- to practice what he preached. it was paul the zealous moron and the others who came afterwards that doctored their memories and started preaching the resurrection.
Hi Z
Welcome back. You have strong opinions, so where do you get your information, and how do you know it is true?
You sound like an intelligent person, however with a spirit of error..
PONDER THIS: IF JESUS AND THE BIBLE IS THE WORD OF GOD, HELL IS A REAL PLACE AND THIS MANS TESTIMONY IS TRUE…. ALL CHRISTIANS WHO BELIEVE IN JESUS HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE..
BUT YOU HAVE EVERYTHING TO LOSE.. AN ETERNITY OF TORMENT
NOW IF YOU ARE RIGHT, THE CHRISTIAN STILL HAS NOTHING TO LOSE
SO THEY ARE ON THE WIN WIN SIDE OF THIS EQUATION….JUST A THOUGHT…
hi Pamela
Z is a young person. His quest is to challenge everything and to believe nothing. I pray your words plant a seed in his life.
its called common sense
Z
people of faith can have common sense too, which is backed up by historical proof of prophecies coming true.
But remember, if you have no proof of your own, do not expect others to have the burden of proof, just to please you.
there is plenty of proof for the falsification of the bible. early versions of the gospels contained no mention of the ressurection, this was added later.
prophecies don’t objectively come true. it is down to the individual to decide if certain events fit a metaphorical prediction subject to broad interpretation. in the sense you are implying, no prophecy has ever ‘come true’
Hi z
Of course, that is only your opinion.
The early versions of the gospels are what is there now in the bible.
The gnostic heretical gospels were not even written until the 300s. Get your facts straight.
there are plenty of bible prophesies that have come true.
Jesus is the big one.
Israel becoming a nation again is another big one. see here for a list:
http://100prophecies.org/
Hell will be disproportionately represented by those whose lives were filled with espousing commentary to glorify their own sense of self-knowledge while denying the deity of Christ. It’s just another form of pride, the very sin that caused Lucifer to fall.
People like Z are too blind to understand that the bible foretold us that views like this would predominate at the time of the end. The irony is that unbeknownst to Z and irrespective of his/her disbelief, he/she is actually being used to fulfill bible prophecy – LOL
Hi Armageddon
I hope Z wakes up, and realizes all the bible prophecy that is being fulfilled today. He is a smart young man. I would like to see him make it.
Z-If you think that everything is up to interpretation and there is no after life, then why do you bother to follow laws, care about money, death, relationships, or any of the other things that people worry about? Does 1990’s Russia not wake you up to anything? The people there were complete atheists and as a result, when their government fell from internal corruption and Afghanistan’s costs, their criminals snatched up everything and killed whoever they wanted, because, hey, there’s no afterlife. They massacred civilians in Chechnya because, hey, there’s no afterlife. Does this not demonstrate the flaw in atheist thinking? Laws in the U.S are derived from the bible and European laws that are also indirectly derived from the bible. So, without law, which is at the very least derived from christianity, as well as religion (christianity) you have chaos and bloodshed. Without God, life is meaningless and worthless, and basically is just about doing hedonistic things and trying to die with the most toys. Think about it. And before you argue that obeying laws is one of our traditions, let me point out that this tradition is rooted in the constitution’s legitimacy, and the constitution took cues from the bible. So, again, without at least the inspiration and influence of religion, you have rule by the barrel of a gun and/or anarchy.
Hi.. I am new and came cross this website that given to me by a friend who knows that I do the research far and wide. Forgive me if I sound a bit bold when I speak up… Everyone have different beliefs and I always wonder why everyone cannot work with each other like loving each other and helping each other that would help to balance everyone by learning and teaching and sharing.
As far as hell is concerned.. they are real.. Why ? I have been there.. in dream as a warrior angel fighting against evil ones.. I have seen that so many times over years since birth.. I always woke up so sore.. sometimes unable to move when body feels like a train ran over it.. but thankfully it stopped two years ago after my surgery. Truthfully, hell is not a pretty sight at all. Nor does the demons.. I have seen them who loved to try to trick and pretend someone that they are not… and sometimes they do attack unexpectedly which everyone have to be on guard 24/7 spiritually.. always… I do remember them asked me over years a question until they became so angry and became demand on having a key from me… I never knew what the key was nor know what it is for.. so I simply told them no…. pardon me I forgot to mention that I am deaf and aint ashame of it at all.. I know God have his reasons for it… Funny thing I do not know God.. yet I talk to him all the time ( similar as if talking to self ) .. Yes it is not easy to have mortal flesh to walk around being tempted by everything in sight, touch, taste, and much more while having spirit in it.. I would call it as ” spirit in flesh shell ” ..
Anyway, I can share one thing but I never understood why. I was 13 years old.. Jesus Christ came to me when I was in bible study alone on my first day.. He simply was there watching me with peace and quiet smile. He startled me yet I looked at him curiously.. then I almost did turn to get my teacher attention … but I didn’t. I turned back to look for Jesus Christ.. He disappeared as quickly as he appeared. I wish I know what it means.
*smile* Beauty shines come with love that lays within everyone even if anyone doesn’t notice. God simply love you all and he is also your father. Holy Bible is the word of God. There is so many advices lays in there if you look closely.
Love you all and bless you all. And, MariAnne, I am glad that I have your website because I love to learn everything possible 🙂 Thank you and bless your heart.
Tamera
Hi Tamera,
Thank you for sharing your story. God bless you.
Wow, the vid just blew me away. What church is that and where can I get the book?
Hi Freedy,
I am not sure but the introductory speaker looks like Jimmy Swaggart.
The man’s name is Bill Weise. Here is some information on him. He is supposed to have a website, but it is not active. Maybe you can find more:
http://www.newreleasetuesday.com/authordetail.php?aut_id=211
HELL is a place for fire and torment. The bible gives the location of hell. What is REALLY in the center of the Earth, though I’ve never seen it before but did not wish to be there. I believe other people who die without Lord Jesus Christ; people who believe in other religious such as Buddha (no offense*) will go straight to hell, forever. Once, my friend mentioned to me the word “damnation of hell”, she really scares me though and I was not sure what does it really means, she was trying to insult me or something. I’m afraid of going to hell since I am a sinner and would like to be saved from this dreadful place.
Dear Perfectionist Gal
If you trust Jesus to forgive you of your sins, then you are safe, and will not go to hell.
I think humans are sinners as well as their physical bodies. If human born to be without Jesus, everyone would end up to hell that is regarded by theologians as a transgression of God’s will. I wonder how human must deserved to be tormented, punished and some cannot be forgiven. Without God, there will no miracles happening.
Hi,
Sorry to just but on in here, but personally I don’t think that a loving God would put anyone in eternal torment, I believe that it’s symbolism for eternal destruction.. after all the Bible says that the dead are concious of nothing so how can the dead be suffering in hell. I love God but if I thought he was capable of doing such an evil act as tormenting people forever he wouldn’t be someone I would love.
Z, where would I find these early gospels that contain nothing about the ressurection? I do find the bible fascinating and especially anything to do with the early stuff!
Thanks xxx
Hi honor,
This is his testimony. If you can find another testimony that suggests differently, then I will be glad to post that as well.
The evil that happens in hell is Satan’s work, not God’s. People go there because they reject god.
The bible passages that say the dead are conscious of nothing are from David, who was speaking as a man in his songs. He never went there, so he would not know.
Jesus clarified later that – before his death and resurrection – there were 2 components in hell ….one side for the righteous (paradise), who rested, and one for the wicked (Gehenna), who suffered. When he was “dead” for 3 days, he went into paradise and released them to go to heaven.
all the real early gospels were written during the lifetime of the apostles. There were heretical gospels that were published 300 years later by non-witnesses. Stop and think…..even scientists date the gnostic gospels to the 300’s….. this means they were not written by any of the original disciples, who were dead by then.
Honor, your insight isnt a new one. Unfortunately, when you and others assert that God wouldnt send anyone to hell, you’re speaking of someone who isnt God. Far exceeding all his other attributes, even that of love, God is first Holy. Holiness isnt just about not doing certain things- it is complete and abject moral perfection; perfection that is diametrically opposed to sin. Holiness thus requires the extermination of sin to satisfy its presence. God cannot tolerate sin. The obverse of holiness is wrath. The two are inseparable like the faces of a coin. Love isnt just a fuzzy emotion in this sense; properly administered, love for the creature (us) compels the holy to find a way of remuneration for the creature. This way of escape was the vicarious offering of Christ on the cross for our sins. God, who is infinite, robed himself in flesh and became obedient to the death of the cross. There were an infinite number of sins that demanded payment so only an infinite being could satisfy them. See Hebrews 6. Since the sacrifice was of an infinite being for an infinite penalty, abrogation of the law of God MUST be meant by infinite punishment. To sum up: God who is holy, required the death of all sinners. Since he loved the sinners, he provided a sacrifice for them. Those sinners who refuse that sacrifice must pay the penalty first required of God, hence infinite suffering in hell. By the way, if you want to find out about God, don’t ask an atheist. None of the sources Z cites relating to the resurrection are credible if they were written after the lifetimes of those who witnessed the events and if they deny the resurrection of Christ. That’s a dangerous road to tread, my friend, particularly if you are looking for answers. Start with the Bible, stick with the Bible. Maranatha.
Hi Armando
Good summary. Many think that God is so “fair” and liberal, that he is permissive toward sin. And to punish sin is evil?
Jesus gave his life so we do not have to go there. That is proof enough of God’s love.
What is sin?
Sin is transgression.
Transgression of what?
The Law.
When you break man’s law, you pay.
When you break Gods’ Law, you pay.
No law, no transgression.
But the Law of God is forever.
Transgression is unbelief.
Because if you believed, that you will pay for transgressing,
And if you believed, that the punishment is eternal,
Then you certainly would not transgressed.
But if you did break the law because of ignorance,
You have an advocate, who stands in the presence of the Throne of God,
knowing you have full repentance,
and you have of your will submitted to the Will of God.
The Lord will declare your innocence to God.
His Laws are not burdensome!
His Laws are Righteous and The Laws of God leads to Life.
But no one will know this until he bows his knee and his will
to the righteous Scepter of God!!!
Therefore repent AND be you baptized!
P.S.
And Oh by the way, while you are still in prison and in chains, because when you transgressed you entered the domain of Satan ….
The name of your Lawyer is ‘Jesus Christ’ and He is the Only Lawyer in town!!
Thanks for your replies.. much appreciated.
May I just put this example to you… There are an awful lot of sects of Christianity around today. And then there are other religions that have many differenct sects, So if someone dies who hasn’t been able to find God what happens to them? Ecc 9:5,6 & 10 clearly state that the dead are concious of nothing at all and in “sheol” you have no consciousness. So.. if we were in hell or heaven.. how would we know that we were if we aren’t conscious? Or do you believe we have an immortal spirit because I would be very interested to see where the bible actually points out that we have an immortal spirit.. because God did tell Adam and Eve in Genesis 3:19 for dust you are and dust you will retun?
Also I would like to see the scriptures that say in hell is satans place and that God has handed the naughty dead people to him. Again the scriptires that Jesus has said that. I am a bit of a novice to the bible and I like to have points put to me that are scripture based so I would really like to see scriptures to this effect.
I hadn’t heard of the heretic gospels so thank you that was interesting.
Amardo.. where in Hebrews 6 does it say an infinite eternal concious torture is required? I am aware of the ransom sacrifice but not sure how hell has anything to do with holyness and justice. I think hell is symbolism for eternal destruction which of course is a punishment and that is understandable that they are so corrupt and won’t like to live into God’s Kingdom but to say for that choice which has been heavenly influenced by satan to be eternally tortured for that is a mass manipulation of the scriptures.
Thanks x
Hi honor,
The core beliefs are that Jesus is the source of our salvation, that we are sinners, and need the forgiveness of God. Jesus provided this for us, by taking our punishment for us. So if we accept his sacrifice for us, then we avoid the punishment in the next life.
Then there are views that are debatable, like the ones you mentioned. We will know more when we leave this earth.
1. consciousness in the next life – what you believe is really optional on this.
The bible passages that say the dead are conscious of nothing are from David, who was speaking as a man in his songs. He never went there, so he would not know.
Luke 16: 19-31:
Jesus clarified later that – before his death and resurrection – there were 2 components in hell ….one side for the righteous (paradise), who rested, and one for the wicked (Gehenna), who suffered. When he was “dead” for 3 days, he went into paradise and released them to go to heaven.
2 Corinthians 5:8 – to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
This means our spirit is with God, or elsewhere, immediately. There is a resurrection of the (glorified) body, but that is not necessary until Jesus returns to rule on earth, and we, who return with him, need our bodies again.
Rev 7 describes people who have come out of the tribulation who are around the throne praising God.
3. someone who seeks God but does not find him
The bible says if we seek, we will find. There is a “law of the gentiles”. If they live their lives as Christ taught, and they have the heart to believe, yet they do not have the information, their desire is their righteousness.
Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and [their] thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.
2. God is in heaven, satan is assigned to hell
Eze 31:16 I [God] made the nations to shake at the sound of his [Satan’s] fall, when I cast him down to hell with them that descend into the pit: and all the trees of Eden, the choice and best of Lebanon, all that drink water, shall be comforted in the nether parts of the earth.
2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast [them] down to hell, and delivered [them] into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
Rev 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
3. Hell is forever:
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
There are 2 opinions about hell:
1. the punishment lasts forever
2. the effects of the punishment lasts forever
Either way, it is suffering…so it is best to avoid it.
Honor, the key to understanding the passage cited in Ecclesiastes is also to include verse 4 in the reading: ‘For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope’. Solomon’s understanding of the repose of the dead was that which was disconnected from life. So as it relates to the living, the dead know nothing, their passions, their pursuits are now silent. All that belonged to them is now vacant and most certainly their state is a fixed one; ‘neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.’ There are many denominations in Christianity, many names over the door, if you will, but only one truth: God is holy, his holiness demanded penalty, Christ satisfied this penalty, men no longer have to suffer if they put their faith in Jesus. Any church that does not espouse these truths is not Christian. Any God that doesnt resemble this one in character, in word and in deed is an idol. All throughout the Bible, the Lord refers to himself as “The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Matt 8:11, Mark 12:26, Luke 13:28, Luke 20:37, Acts 3:13 Acts 7:32, etc). Though these men had long disappeared from the Earth and as it pertained to the living had no more passions, portions, work, etc, God always refers to them as living. Further, the scripture says he is not a God of the dead, but of the living (Matt 22:32). Genesis 2 records that God created man out the dust of the ground and breathed into him his own breath (ruach or spirit). By definition and supported by God’s own eternality, the spirit is immortal. The union of spirit and the body of dust ignites the soul which is the seat of emotion, intellect, personality etc. When a person dies, their body (dust) is what you see, their soul (he was a nice man, caring person) is what you speak of. Ecclesiastes 12:7 ‘Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.’ The spirit returns to God to await its resurrection into an eteranl body, either in blessedness or torment. Matthew 25:41 clearly states that hell was prepared for the devil and his angels. The idea that the devil reigns in hell, skewering the damned with pitchforks and laughing in infernal glee is not scriptural. Hell for the devil will be suffering. Revelation 20:10. Further, Jesus goes to great lengths to describe hell not as an allegory, but as reality. Luke 16:19-31 describe the plight of a man who’d gone to hell. That the characters in the story were named (historians cite the rich mans name as Dives) indicates that it was not a parable. That Jesus didnt delineate WHICH Lazarus (a fairly common name in Israel at the time) he was speaking about, meant that the audience remembered specifically which man- they had known him. From this story we know that the rich man was conscious, cogniscent and suffering greatly in flames. He had memory of his dead family but could not have known whether his brothers were still in the same state he’d left them. The passage is in perfect harmony with Ecclesiastes. Additionally, he was also made aware that his state was fixed and interminable. Notice when you read that he never asked for forgiveness or release. He KNEW he was in hell, he knew why he was there and he knew he could never get out. Also see Mark 9:44, 45, 46, 48, Matthew 8:12, 22:13, 24:51, 25:30, Luke 13:28, Revelation 20:15, 21:28. Also note that in Revelation 20:10 after a thousand years, two of the denizens of hell are still alive and still burning. My apologies on one point; I made a typo. The passage I’d intended was Hebrews 10:26-29. This passage is clear that there is no mercy for those who refuse the Lord’s sacrifice. Further, I wrote several paragraphs explaining the scriptural understanding of God’s nature (infinite and holy). There are 57 scriptures in the Bible (www.biblegateway is the source I use- you can do quick searches for any topic) that point to God being Almighty, hundreds that outline his exceeding wisdom, his infinite being (Genesis 28:16, Psalms 139), his holiness (Leviticus 11:44) and infinite in his truth. There are nearly 600 references to holiness in the Bible; nearly all of them either in relation to God specifically or showing the comparison between he and man. There are hundreds of passages citing God’s response to infractions of holiness- they are swift and complete. The Bible says in Revelation 13:8 that Jesus was the Lamb slain since the foundation of the world meaning that before God created a world filled with men who would fail him, he already knew the only solution for the sin based on his requirements for holiness. Search the scriptures, you’ll find many passages dealing with God’s love toward men and how that this love manifests itself in longsuffering and unmerited compassion. But the scripture is replete with the understanding that the sinner will not escape his punishment, though God delay its carrying out because of his mercy. You’ll find more references to God’s holiness and the demands of this holiness than his love and mercy combined. His holiness required the death of his own son because his son Jesus became sin for us (Romans 6:18). If such is the demand of holiness, then how can anyone sport themselves as the untouchable object of his wrath on the basis that he is love? No one is forced into damnation, rather they choose it, by the conscious and willing decision to tread underfoot the sacrifice of Christ. Pray for understanding. Scripture is meaningless short of the elucidation of the Holy Spirit. I think the scriptures I’ve outlined are a good start. Most importantly as it applies to retribution and justice, God’s nature, heaven and hell- it’s best to start without any suppositions based on what you think God ought to be or what would seem logical and fair and invest much time in understanding these concepts from a scriptural standpoint alone. Maranatha.
Marianne & Maranatha,
Thank you very much for your replies, your time and effort is much appreciated. Like I said before I am a bit of a novice when it comes to the bible and I am very much trying to keep an open mind whilst studying so thank you for your response.
May I ask do you believe the bible says we inhabit the earth as a paradise afterwards or do you believe it says that we go to heaven forever. I know there are many views among christians so I’m just wondering what the general view is here.
Thank you for all the scriptures and your indepth answer Maranatha 🙂
Hi honor
Once Jesus returns, we will have a new heaven and a new earth. The earth will be “heaven on earth.”
Honor, you’re quite welcome. I’m like a kid in a candy store. I was like you once and am always eager to share what I know and what I believe and am always ready to correct my beliefs when I find them to be in error. By the way, “Maranatha” isnt my name, although it ought to be, lol. Its a word that simply means “the Lord cometh”. I end posts that way because even after lots of back and forth and sometimes disagreeing, I never want to lose sight of the fact that our Lord will soon return to take us away. Regarding your question, my understanding of scripture is that there will be a rapture where the Lord stands on the clouds essentially and meets the living and dead saints in their perfected bodies, then a period of great turmoil for earth of at least 3.5 or as many as 7 years. At which point the Lord returns physically to the Earth (Acts 1 and Revelation 19) with his saints. That his return to earth is a physical and visible one is evidenced by the statements made by angels in the first chapter of Acts. There are cults who say Jesus has returned to Earth invisibly or that his return was what occured on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2) but these are tragic and dangerous misreadings of scripture. That he returns with his saints in the 19th chapter of Revelation is startling proof that they’d left the earth already. Jesus will then set up his absolute rule on earth for a thousand years. Satan will be bound during this time) There will be people born during that time who will grudgingly submit to his rule. Sin will still exist, because there will still be unglorified people but the tempter will be bound. At the end of this period, Satan will be loosed for a while in a final test of God. This 1,000 year period is to show men that even without a devil, with no wars or crime or health issues, people will still fail of their own accord. The devil will be cast into the lake of fire and “judgement day” will begin. Sin will be extinguished and those in the lake of fire will become what has eloquently and perfectly been called “a footnote in history”. The home Jesus promised to prepare for those who love him in the book of John will descend from heaven to earth and will remain on the earth. So to answer your question succinctly, earth will be our home forever but it will be made “heaven”, if you will, by the abiding presence of God. Forgive me for the length of these posts, but I am summarizing many, many scriptures (more than a thousand on the second coming alone).
Thank you very much for your replies again.. so do you believe that their will be a new earth created or just cleaned up?
Sorry to post all these questions on this page where they might not be relevant to the topic but I’m looking at all aspects of christianity and scripturally the rapture makes more sense than living in heaven forever.
Do you , if any, go to a particular church? I know there are many other denomities of christianity and a few strike me as being more correct at teaching scriptures than others. With regards to living as a Christian.. The Jehovah’s witnesses don’t accept blood transfusions.. now do other Christians also take this stand?
Also I find it very interesting that a lot of denominations don’t like to get involved with world affairs as they see God as their ruler which I see as scripturally correct.. would you agree?
Thank you, Love, Honor x
Sorry Armado,
I have just re read your post that said you believe the earth will be cleared up and you will all return.. But where in the bible does it actually say this as I have just read acts 1 and rev 19 and cant seem to see it?
Thanks x
Hi Honor
Rev 21:1-2, 10 describes the New Jerusalem coming down from heaven to earth. The New Jerusalem is described as the Bride, the Lamb’s wife. So, the Bride, which are the true believers, are returning to earth along with the bridegroom, who is Jesus. Where he goes, she follows.
Rev 21:23-24 describes nations coming to it also, meaning there are still people on earth after the tribulation.
also, if you look carefully at 21:1, it says there is “no more sea.” After the earthquake in Rev 7:12, and other destructive events during the tribulation and wrath periods, the surface of the earth has dramatically changed.
There will be “more earth surface” if the oceans have been filled in with land. I guess all will be on one large continent, and the water supply will be from underground springs. I guess maybe this is to accommodate all the people who will be returning to earth to live here.
Thanks, Sorry if I appear dumb, but who are the people that are left in the earth? is that the people who are still good but just didn’t find god?
Honor x
Hi honor,
It depends on whether you are referring to during the millenium or after it, but….to be simple….
The Bride is only made of those who were ready, pure, repented of their sins, and devoted to Jesus BEFORE the rapture.
The purpose of the tribulation is to purify those remaining, or to bring unbelievers to Christ. So there will be reformed and new believers that come out of the tribulation. This is 3 1/2 years long.
This is followed by a time of wrath, in which only the wicked are punished. This is 3 1/2 years long also. many die…
At the end of all this, there are still people around. The good are present, and the wicked, if they survive, are defeated.
During the millennium, life goes on, with Jesus in rulership. Satan is bound up and cannot do anything. The wicked, defeated and under submission, are given yet another change to reform their ways.
At the end of the millennium, there is one final uprising. Satan gets the remaining wicked who have been defeated, and get them to attack once more. This is the battle of God and Magog.
Jesus defeats both Satan and this Gog army, and casts all of them into the lake of fire. At this time also, hell itself cast there too, destroying hell and everyone in it.
Right ok,
Where does the bible say this period is 3 & 1/2 years long?
This might seem a bit nit picking but if hell is to be destroyed.. along with it.. how can people be tormented forever and ever in hell?
Honor x
Hi Honor,
Daniel and Revelation are the 2 books that refer the most to this time.
Daniel 12:1, 7 a “time” is a prophetic year
Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation [even] to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which [was] upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that [it shall be] for a time, times, and an half (3 1/2 years); and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these [things] shall be finished.
Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days. (3 1/2 years)
Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. (3 1/2 years)
Daniels prophecy of 70 weeks (Daniel 7)
69 have been fulfilled so far….one week ( 7 years ) to go
in the end times, an evil prince will make a covenant with many for one week (7 years), and in the middle of the week, (3 1/2 years), he breaks the covenant, when he commits an abomination in the temple, and then destroys it. Daniel 7:27.
Hello
That’s great thanks, Does anybody else have any insight into why the scriptures would say hell is torment forever but it will be destroyed so that can’t be forever can it?
I stumbled across another theory that Jesus is actually in power of the Kingdom now and that we are living in the last days. Admittedly I copied it from a website but interesting none the less… If you have read even just portions of the Old Testament you should realize that Kings were appointed to rule over the Jews. God’s rule over his people was through these King’s who had been given God’s approval. These Kings were actually chosen by/through God.
This line of Kings eventually terminated with the destruction of Jerusalem in 607 B.C.E. by the Babylonians. After this time no other human King was annointed or approved by God to rule over his people.
God was now allowing rulership amoung the people of the earth to progress according to their own desire. No direct interferance from God. What we need to do is determine how long this time will be.
During this time one of the most powerfull Kings was Nebuchadnezzar who let his power go to his head. He was eventually humiliated by God. From this lesson he concluded that the success of his rulership was not due to anything special in his own power but that he was just being allowed to rule by God. See Daniel Ch4
If you carefully contemplate this it should occur to you that national governments today will also eventually be humiliated and have to come to a similar conclusion. (Isaiah 2:4)
This is something I am really looking forward to, especially considering the circumstance the world is in today.
You must now carefully read and contemplate Daniel 4:23
Daniel 4 :23 – NIV “You, O king, saw a messenger, a holy one, coming down from heaven and saying, ‘Cut down the tree and destroy it, but leave the stump, bound with iron and bronze, in the grass of the field, while its roots remain in the ground. Let him be drenched with the dew of heaven; let him live like the wild animals, until seven times pass by for him.’
The tree being chopped down is not completely killed but terminated (banded) for a period of 7 times. That this verse is in regards to rulership is discerned by reading it in context.
The period of 7 times is significant in that the actual period of time could not be determined as it was not properly understood how long ‘a time’ was until the Apostle John revealed this many hundreds of years later.
As this was revealed long after King Nebuchadnezzar’s rule it must be that it had some other significance for the time period after the first century when John wrote the Book of Revelation.
Therefore by measuring 7 times after the destruction of Jerusalem and the end of the last of its Kings in 607 B.C.E. we should be able to determine when a God appointed King would once again begin to rule.
It is easily rationalised that this King would be Jesus Christ because it is after his resurrection that we find out what ‘a time’ is.
There is a scriptural connection however, to Jesus Christ in this prophecy which, occurs a few verses later while Daniel interprets the dream as follows:
Daniel 23:24
24this is the interpretation, O king: It is a decree of the Most High, which has come upon my lord the king, 25that you shall be driven from among men, and your dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field. You shall be made to eat grass like an ox, and you shall be wet with the dew of heaven, and seven periods of time shall pass over you, till you know that the Most High rules the kingdom of men and gives it to whom he will.
So who does God want to give this Kingdom to?
One of Daniel’s contemporaries reveals who this is in the following scripture:
Ezekiel 21:27
25″Now to you, O profane, wicked prince of Israel, whose day has come, whose iniquity shall end, 26thus says the Lord GOD: “Remove the turban, and take off the crown; Nothing shall remain the same. Exalt the humble, and humble the exalted. 27Overthrown, overthrown, I will make it overthrown! It shall be no longer, Until He comes whose right it is, And I will give it to Him.”‘
The scripture above also speaks of the removal of Gods approved or annointed kings until he comes whose (legal) right it is. This is the one who God wants to give the kingdom to. Jesus Christ who was the only perfect man to live and die on this earth. Earning the legal right to replace what Adam lost and rule mankind.
So now, how long is ‘a time’ so that we can calculate when Jesus will begin his rulership?
Revelation 12:6 “The woman fled into the desert to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days.”
Revelation 12:14 “The woman was given the two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly to the place prepared for her in the desert, where she would be taken care of for a time, times and half a time, out of the serpent’s reach.”
Therefore:
time, times and half a time = 1260 days
That times must equal 2 times is a rationale whose conclusion must be carefully contemplated.
If you try to make times equal to anything else but 2 times it does not seem to make sense.
Therefore:
time(1) + times(2) + half a time(1/2) = 3 1/2 times
Therefore:
7 times = 1260 x 2 = 2520 days.
If you now add 2520 days to 607 B.C.E. you end up nowhere special.
Also you end up in a period well before Jesus’s birth as well as before the time that the Apostle John wrote the Book of Revelation which is where we find what a “time” was in the first place.
So now what ?
There are some scriptural precedents set which indicate that a day can be represented in prophetic terms as a year.
This is revealed in the following verses:
Numbers 14:34 “For forty years-one year for each of the forty days you explored the land-you will suffer for your sins and know what it is like to have me against you.”
Ezekiel 4:6 “After you have finished this, lie down again, this time on your right side, and bear the sin of the house of Judah. I have assigned you 40 days, a day for each year.”
Now if 2520 years are added to 607 B.C.E. you will arrive at the year 1914.
I think you will agree that this year is significant as it was the start of WW1 and is completely in line with what Jesus said to expect when he would again be present in Matthew chapter 24.
What do you guys make of that? bit complecated but in depth none the less x
hi honor,
I think you are trying too hard to add to the year 607 BCE. There are different prophecies about various events. We cannot always mix them together.
I am not aware of a prophecy that uses 607 as a start time.
your quote from Daniel was more revealing:
it means that from the roots of the first Babylonian king would arise another one, since the stump was left in the ground,….iron and bronze represent the Roman- Grecian empires, which Daniel indicated later would be part of the 4th beast.
Honor, scripture never says “Hell” will be forever. Hell will be cast into the lake of fire. The lake of fire will be forever. The Bible is clear on this. Regarding one of your earlier comments about the type of church…I don’t advocate for any specific denominations; I, myself, attend a non-denominational church. The most important thing about a body of worship is that they teach the Bible and teach living as the Apostles did. All of the apostles were saved through faith in Christ. All of them were baptised for the remission (removal) of their sins. (By the way, RUN from any church that says baptism is only a ceremony or an outward act of inward faith. The Bible is clear in Acts 2:38 that baptism removes sin. All of them received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. All of them spake with other tongues as the Spirit gave utternace. All of them produced good works as an outward proof of their faith. All of them lived holy, sanctified lives, apart from the world and fleshly lusts. All of them witnessed and embodied the regenerative work of the Holy Spirit. This I think to be a minimum. There may be some who’ll respond that the things I’ve outlined are legalistic or unnecessary, or that once you’re saved, you’re always saved but I challenge any of them to provide scriptural evidence to support their views. At any rate, seek the Kingdom of God and salvation. There are many people, like yourself, who become biblical scholars but are never saved. Knowing the Bible from front to back and knowing every eschatological nuance and every exegetical argument is all well and good, the Bible does say, after all to “strive for master”- Christians should be experts at their craft, but the principle thing is salvation. There’re only 3 types of people who can’t take a look at the world around us and know that we are living in the last days: hermits, babies and the debilitated in mind. Everything around us points to the soon coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. The church age will soon end and with it, perhaps, your opportunity for salvation. ‘Today is the day, NOW is the accepted time’ says the Bible regarding salvation. This site is a wonderful resource; a plethora of knowledge and discussion. I’m certain that Marianne and others, myself included, are more than happy to take the time with you to help you understand the Bible. Your curiousity isnt just that, it is God drawing you, for only by the drawing of his Spirit can any be saved. I seriously reccommend that you consider your situation and come to a saving knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. Maranatha.
Hello Again, I’m sorry I got confused as Marianne said in one of her points that Hell lasts forever.. so I just go confused 🙂
I really do love unravelling bible truths so thank you for your help and insight on a few different sides of the story. I do apologise for starting on this page and straying away from the hell topic, but do you guys believe in the trinity? It’s just I don’t and I have heard from other trinitarians their point but I cant get my head around how we are supposed to not understand it and yet believe it and I have read up onhow the trinity was introduced so it seems pretty pagan.. any views on this?
Apologies to Marianne if you have covered this in one of your other posts, also I’d like to say i have thoroughly enjoyed your website Marianne, I started reading your article on crop circles and found it fascinating as I knew there was something sinister about the whole thing and it was amazing that you investigated it so well, may I have the link to that article as i cant seem to find it again, thanks, Honor x
Hi Honor,
Thoughts I have on the trinity confusion are found in a batch of posts:
https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/category/son-of-god/
https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/category/son-of-god/page/2/
there are 2 pages of them in an index…pick out which ones you want to read.
One of the biggest hurdles to get over in this life is to know how to know the diffence between what is a truth and what is a lie. Time in the fire is the greatest tester of all. Any metal worker knows this. Any temper-mental-ist or jewel-master knows this. Precious Ele-menatal sub-stances are refined by processes of severity like heat, striking, pressure, electricity, etc. Chemists know this. Physics engineers know this.
So by what process does a person refine truth from err? Of do we, like Z, eventually convince ourselves that WE don’t even exist?
“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall NOT pass away.” – Jesus, Matthew 24:35
I receive great comfort and confidence in that! It gives my feet something solid to walk on! It gives me a real foundation to put my weight on!
What’s your foundation? Does the alchohal last forever? Are doubt and despair your never-failing friends who give you never-ending comfort and joy and light and happiness deep down in your knower? Or do those words sound foreign to you? I know they used to sound foreign to me, but Jesus’ kind of love changed that for me and now I have a stillness and an inner peace given to me by the crucified but now Living Jesus Himself that nothing in this world or the next can shake or make afraid. He conquored those dark ones who tried to keep Him in eternal torment. Look up at the sky and see if it makes you feel angry or empty inside. If it does, then you need Jesus’ kind of peace and comfort and healing and restoration more than anything else you know right now.
Now the only way to test nd see what Jesus declared concerning His undying Words of Love is to actually test it…wait it out till heaven and earth pass away and see for yourself if His Words still exist at that time…a pretty big problem if you don’t know how to enter into the Eternal Realm where time has little or no bearing… you just won’t last that long yourself if you cannot escape the heaven or the earth thing. So while you’re working on that, I’ll enter into the Mastership of Eternal God like a little child and ask Him to show you Himself through me.
* __ * __ * __ * __ * __ * __ *
He loves you. I love you. He so loves this world that He gives. I also want to give you my love, just because you might receive and enjoy a better and happier life because of it. However, I will not force my gift of love onto you, no. How and if you want to receive my love towards you is totally for you to do with as you like because you are also free; unless, of course, you don’t want to be free…that’s totally your decision. But I give you my love anyway, which is free for me to give to whomever I want to, that’s my free choice of whom I give my love to and why. I also have the freedom to STOP giving my love if I choose to, but I will never do that, because my love is not conditioned on your state of being or how you respond to me, but rather on the fact that I have a lot of love to give and I chose you. Love must be free in order to be love. I choose to love you because I think you are valuable for it, even though you may or may not see that at this time.
I give my love because it’s my love to give, and I can give it to whomever I want to. Whether you can receive it is totally up to you… you don’t have to… you are free and it’s your choice. I will continue to give my love of caring to you anyway. I care about you. I want you to prosper in the things that give you lasting, unending joy and happiness. In fact, I care about you so much, that I don’t even want to ‘win’ this conversation. Rather, I want you to ‘win’, unless of course my ‘winning’ is to save your life. But you are free to die if you want to, and talk yourself into oblivion if you want to, because I will not even force life on you against your wishes.
I care about you more than you know. I care about your joy so much in fact, that I want you to be successful over my dead body, and not the other way around. Now I can back up those words, because I have a life to give. And I am so sorry in what you have suffered so much in this life. It makes my heart break. I am soooo sorry for what has already been done to you against your happiness, and how you have been so terribly violated by ones and peoples who said that they cared, but were cruel and takers of blood rather than givers of blood. That makes me angry! That should not have happened! That was wrong! If I had been there I would have done EVERYTHING I could to protect you! They will not get away with it. No one gets away with anything, but in the timeless Realm of Eternity their seeds will catch up with them and they will pay… they will reap a harvest of what they have planted, be sure of that. But remember that YOU ASLO will reap a harvest of the seeds you have planted! I know that you have also planted both bad and good seeds, and the God who created and owns everyone loves everyone else too. So only God the Creator, who’s people we have violated, can forgive ALL of us the violators. He has already forgiven you for all your shortcomings, except for the one of not being able to believe that He has already forgiven you for all of your shortcomings. I know this because that’s what He told me. I heard the sound in His Voice when He said it, and I know He meant it.
If anyone will rob from, cheat and steal from, swear and curse at, spit against me, or even kill me, I will take the hit onto myself, I will pay the loss out of my own bank account… because I’ve already forgiven and I’ve prepared for those situations already. I will be angry yes, but my mercy will win out over my anger in the end because that’s just who I am… my mercy IS my anger. I love you. This is how I fight against death. I fight against death, destruction, and cold-hearted indifference by doing and being the opposite. But if you abuse and misuse my forgiveness, I will eventually put a stop to it so that you WON’T suffer eternal torment of shame, hiding, running, regret, loss, and pain of fear. But it would be really good if there was another way for BOTH of us to be successful and happy, and not die. That’s where Jesus comes in. He died for your success already, and took whatever you’ve done onto Himself already, so that I wouldn’t have to. He’s done the same for me as well. But if you cannot believe Jesus, then I might have to step in for you and perform the role of a 2nd witness to God’s never-ending love for you in the courtroom of the Eternal Timeframe, because truthful love that promises to selflessly love to the death for Eternity can ONLY PROVE ITSELF by doing just that… loving you for Eternity, to the death, in spite of what you do back to it. That is God’s heart. THAT is the nature of God’s love. He commands you to go to Heaven over His dead body. He’s watching your back. That is the nature of God, because God IS Love, that’s just His way. This earth has forgotten His ways, the ways in the Garden of Paradise. We and even the animals and plants have rebelled and forgotten how good paradise can be. Can you imagine a paradise for yourself? Now can you imagine a paradise for someone else? See, even you remember a little bit of what He put into you when you were born. Instinctively you know and remember who God is, what love is.
Because God IS love and knows what love IS and ISN’T, He will let you go be in a living hell for ever IF THAT’S WHAT YOU WANT, but has already GIVEN His OWN Life-Force of Love through Master Jesus to you, to cover you, to keep you from ever going to any living hell, if you can just only TRUST IT and RECEIVE IT! You are breathing right now, are you not? You are feeling and moving and breathing God’s oxygen right now, are you not? Did you pay God for His oxygen? His Sunlight? Does He charge you per raindrop or for each heart beat? Where is your bank account for God? There are accounts for your utility bills, your phone, your gas, your groceries, your cloths, your home, your bottled water… so how do you pay for life? To whom do you pay for laughter? For feeling? For taste and touch? Song and dancing? Sight and sound? Did someone make you pay for those things at the beginning of your life? Someone always has to pay, nothing is free, right? So then why are the best things in life for free TO YOU? Whom did you pay for these things? No, you didn’t have to pay, because God loves you so much that He gives… and gives…. and gives. THERE is the SOLID EVIDENCE then that God has ALREADY LOVED YOU and given you life! How long you KEEP it is entirely up to you! At the end of this timeframe you will be tested by the examination of the grave to see what you did with the gift of life that God has ALREADY given you, to see if you are worthy to receive more of it and have the ability to enjoy it, or will only use it for destruction. At the end of Eternity you can make up your own mind about God and His kind of love for you… I am patient and I will see you there, if you can last that long. Just PLEASE stay out of any living hell in the meantime. Jesus can show you how to do that. Read about Him and get to know Him. Let Him instruct you about Divine Love and how it works and blends together with Truth, Hope, and Trust.
Well said Tony. I have some concerns regarding this video and would like an idea of how many believe this mans account of his personal journey into hell. My guess would be that most of you would find this very “suspect” at best… I would like to address this in the next few days and open it to further discussion..
Hi Ian
Anyone is welcome to disagree with the video. I cannot personally know whether he did or did not experience this, but just listen to what he has to say.
We still have to divide up the content into 2 parts, and ask:
1. did this happen to him ? (which you are doing)
2. even if this did not happen to him, is the description of hell true anyhow, according to scripture?
It is possible for people to copy experiences from others and make them their own. (I have seen people say things that I have already said, for example.)
If they do, they will have to answer for it. I try to focus on the content, and evaluate it for any kernel of truth.
So, the question is, do you think this is an accurate description of hell, even if you are not sure about the speaker?
Tony,
Thank you for putting in better words that I cannot ever able to describe. 🙂 Very well said. Bless you.
Ok, Marianne, here goes:
First of all Truth is not subjective. Unlike “beauty” as being in the “eye of the beholder”, Truth is an absolute.
1) The answer is no, this did not happen to him. Here is why: Scripture is clear about hell. Hell has been reserved for the Devil and his angels. On the day of the Lord’s return (The 2nd Coming) which is also referred to as “His Glorious Appearing”, Christ will defeat all His enemies, capture alive the Antichrist and the false prophet, and cast them into the lake of fire, where they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. (Revelation 20:1-3) Satan himself is bound and cast into the bottomless pit and thus begins the Millennial reign (1000 years) of Christ. You will note that no human has yet been judged or cast into “hell” only the Antichrist and false prophet. Revelation 20:11-15 reveals the “Great White Throne Judgment” at the end of the millennial reign. This is referred to as the second death – anyone who’s name is not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
So to conclude, this man’s account of entering into hell is null and void.
2) Is this an accurate description of hell? Yes, it seems to fit with what scripture tells us what the future hold for those who continue to reject the Lord Jesus Christ. However, what is in existence now is described as Hades, a “holding place” until the time of judgment.
I welcome your comments…
Hi Ian,
That is fine. This is an opinion blog. I do not dictate things, and tell people to believe me.
I put topics out for discussion. Hopefully, everyone learns as the discussion develops.
My general approach to supernatural experiences is this: if it is really from God, you should not have to pay for it.
If ministers start selling their experience, or asking for offerings above normal travel expenses, and get rich off their experience, then it is most likely not true.
I do not know much about this man and his finances and personal life. I just thought the description was very good of hell.
Maybe he was just dreaming, if this happened at all.
Ian,
I think to avoid confusion, it’s best to describe the place of the wicked dead as the scriptures do, hell being the holding place of torment for the wicked dead prior to the Great White Throne judgement and the Lake of Fire as their final place of torment. As you stated, they are two separate places and during the millenium only the antichrist and the false prophet will inhabit it. My issue of contention with this testimony is that although its been circulating for years now, people fail to dispute it from the standpoint of scripture and instead seek to question the gentleman’s credibility in situ. The Bible tells us hell was prepared for the devil and his angels and that he would be tormented for ever in it. Further, the Scripture tells us that when the spirits who inhabited Legion were cast out that they requested to be sent into the swine. They feared the abyss far more than the known depths of the lake of Genessaret. This speaks volumes. See also ALL instances in scripture where Jesus casts out devils, they’re terror is crystalized in the fear that Jesus would at THAT MOMENT send them to the punishment they had long known about. So hell isn’t a place where devils impale the damned and imagine new and dreadful tortures for them, nor is it the autonomous demonocracy of “Paradise Lost”, where so long as they stay out of God’s sight, they are free to do their devilry. On these points alone his testimony is beyond suspect. Did he experience something? I’m certain he did. Was it divinly inspired? I don’t believe so at all. Further, we have the authority of God’s word to teach us of hell. What more do we need to know? You mean to tell me that Jesus’ words alone arent enough to warn us of the punishment to come, so he had to recruit this fella? Make no mistake, he’s made a killing going from church to church regaling the congregants with his yarns of the inferno. But his information isn’t new; many of the apocryphal works include the same sort of information he spouts- demons lording over the punishment of the damned- yet not a single one was included in scripture because the Lord didn’t inspire men to tell these stories. They’re embellishments, filled with personal vebdettas against groups of people or “grades” of sin. I think we need no more warning than what was written for us so long ago “and whosoever was not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the Lake of Fire.” Maranatha.
Why would you use the word ‘maranatha’, seeing it was used only once in the new testament and its’ meaning varies so much???
Maranatha (either מרנא תא; maranâ’ thâ’ or מרן אתא; maran ‘athâ’ ) is an Aramaic phrase occurring once only in the New Testament (see Aramaic of Jesus) and also in the Didache which is part of the Apostolic Fathers collection. It is transliterated into Greek letters rather than translated, and is found at the end of Paul’s First Epistle to the Corinthians (1 Cor 16:22) as a farewell. The NRSV translates it as: “Our Lord, come!” but notes that it could also be translated as: “Our Lord has come”; the NIV translates: “Come, O Lord”; the NAB notes:
“As understood here (“O Lord, come!”), it is a prayer for the early return of Christ. If the Aramaic words are divided differently (Maran atha, “Our Lord has come”), it becomes a credal declaration. The former interpretation is supported by what appears to be a Greek equivalent of this acclamation in Rev 22:20 “Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!””
The phrase may have been used as a greeting between Early Christians,[1] and it is possibly in this way that it was used by the Apostle Paul. The original Greek meaning of “anathema”, a gift or sacrifice to God, leads to the interpretation that “Anathema Maranatha” in a New Testament context could mean “a gift to God at the coming of our Lord.” John Wesley in his Notes on the Bible comments that, “It seems to have been customary with the Jews of that age, when they had pronounced any man an Anathema, to add the Syriac expression, Maran – atha, that is, “The Lord cometh;” namely, to execute vengeance upon him.” The negative understanding of maranatha began to die out by the late 19th Century; Jamiesen, Fausset and Brown’s commentary of 1871 separates Maranatha from anathema in the same way as modern scholars. However the traditional interpretation is still occasionally found among some Christians today.
I find it so very strange when I see this word.
Dont think it strange at all. I use it in the sense that Paul used it, “Our Lord Comes”, for he is coming and soon. Maranatha.
Why could you not just say this in english?
By using the original transliteration, I pay homage to the ancient church. It makes me think of the Church throughout the ages as a whole, as it should anyone who knows what it means. It reminds me that just as the early church believed in the doctrine of imminency, so too, should we. Many translated words lose their efficacy; many words, once translated are diffused to mean something else. It’s one word that ecapsulates all of what it is to be a Christian to me.
But since the word ‘maranatha’ does not give all that explanation, why not just say:
‘The Lord Comes’?? …if that is what you are saying.
For you could also with the same word say that The Lord has already come …and so we missed Him.
Another reason I am not fond of this word is that it is used in meditation …
OSB’s teachings on the practice of Christian meditation. The prayer is one where one places everything aside: instead of talking to God, one is just being with God, allowing God’s presence to fill one’s heart, thus transforming one’s inner being
The World Community for Christian Meditation (WCCM) was founded in 1991 to foster the teachings of Benedictine monk and priest, Fr. John Main, O.S.B. Fr. Main taught a way of Christian meditation which he based on parallels he saw between the spiritual practice taught by Desert Father John Cassian and the meditative practice he had been taught by the Swami Satyanandain in Kuala Lumpur.[1] The current director of the WCCM is Fr. Laurence Freeman, O.S.B., a student of John Main and a Benedictine monk of the Olivetan Congregation. The World Community has its International Centre and a retreat centre in London. There are a number of Centres in other parts of the world. The Community is thus a ‘monastery without walls’, a family of national communities and emerging communities in over a hundred countries. The foundation of this Community is the local meditation group, which meets weekly in homes, parishes, offices, hospitals, prisons, and colleges. The World Community works closely with many Christian churches.
Annually, it runs the John Main Seminar and The Way of Peace. It also sponsors retreats, schools for the training of teachers of meditation seminars, lectures, and other programs. It contributes to interfaith dialogue particularly, in recent years, with Buddhists and Muslims. A quarterly spiritual letter with news of the community is mailed and also available online. Weekly readings can be sent direct by email. Information on current programmes, connections to national coordinators and the location of meditation groups can be found on the Community website which also offers a range of online audio talks. This site is the hub of a growing family of Internet presence, the Web sites of national communities and special interests, such as the teaching of meditation to children and the contemporary spirituality of priests.
It is so much simpler to simply say: ‘The Lord Cometh’.
With all due respect, Abigail, who cares what some monks do? You’re comment reads like a passage from a website rather than a history of the use of the word Maranatha. That’s like the question that was posed to me about the Latin Vulgate being used in Satanic rituals and as such shouldnt be deamed credible in discussing the rapture. I use it in its original context, the way the Apostles and the early Church used it (As I’ve stated), if a person wants to see it another way, that’s on them. If one is inclined to misinterpret or disbelieve, they’ll do so irrespective of the word or words I use. If nothing else, it opens up the door to witness, which it has ever since I began to use it. You’re free, Sister, to not be fond of it, I think it’s lovely.
Well Amando if it makes you feel holier … it is also your right to use it.
I do not believe in interfaith mixtures, so this word is always an obstruction for clear discussions.
And I am not a catholic, so maybe that is why it sounds strange to my ears and to my eyes it denotes an uncertain interpretation.
To all,
I think some people prefer the original terminology to modern English.
It gives a sense of authenticity and closeness to the original apostles to speak as they did, to think as they did, and to walk as they did.
This is a personal decision. It may be more inspiring to someone to do this.
For someone else, the modern language is better.
Language should be used for communicating and so if the words expressed are not understood then the communication lacks.
Abigail, I think you’re making a big deal out of nothing. I neither mentioned holiness (an attribute that we can never have too much of, by the way) nor implied that either I or you was a Catholic. The bottom line is that if a person wants to understand something, they’ll get to the meaning of something, words notwithstanding. Conversely, if they desire to niggle about ephemera that ultimately is subjective and neither contributes nor detracts from the substance of the conversation, they will. I won’t say anything else about it, I don’t see the point. I’ve explained my reason. I love you, God bless. Maranatha.
O.K. We will leave ‘maranatha’ because you don’t see the point.
You say that hell is prepared for the devil and his angels?
And that is true, but then what do you make of this Scripture spoken by The Lord??
Mat 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
So why then would you disbelieve a visit to this place??
That was a point? Anybody can copy and paste text from the internet, I don’t see that you proved any point. Your comment was arbitrary at best. With respect to the scripture you posted, again, I don’t see how it proves any point. It is completely unrelated to the idea that demons torture people in hell. Period. I don’t believe he visited the actual hell for all of the reasons I’ve already listed. Go back and look at my posts- there are actual points preceding the “Maranatha”. The “them” which kill the body is a reference to the bulk of the chapter before it where Jesus is talking about brothers delivering brothers to death and people thinking his disciples were hypocrites and the persecution that would come from MEN, not torture from devils. You have to read the Bible with a hermeneutical mind and not go half cocked off one verse trying to underscore truth. Disengage yourself from the fact that you provided the video and acknowledge that not everyone is going to be enamoured of of it like you are. People will disagree with you, friend. That’s fine.
I am not in love with the video any more than I am with the text I have provided concerning the word ‘maranatha’ … so I have nothing to detach myself from.
I have read what you have provided this forum ….
And I am also very aware of what The Lord was saying and to whom.
The part of the Scripture that I find of interest is ‘Fear Him who is able to destroy both
soul and body in hell.’
The Lord was not referring to devils being destroyed in hell since devils do not have a soul and a body.
And since we already know that devils inhabit hell, then seems to my mind that The Lord was referring to man, who could very well end up there.
Abigail, I agree with you completely. Some people use this verse to validate the notion that hell will be incineration- a period of suffering then annihilation. Scripture doesnt bear that notion out. One thing that the Bible is clear on is that death the death of the body is not a cessation of existence. Likewise, death of the soul isn’t obliteration, it’s the rendering of eternal judgement. Relegated to being a footnote in history. That is terrifying if you’re lost. I pray that however correct or not our views on hell that none of us ever ends up there. I made up my mind a long time ago, I’M NOT GOING! Maranatha.
Amardo,
The One Who Was and Who Is and Who Is to Come!
And I pray as well that none ever have to hear the words: ‘Depart from Me, you who do iniquity’, nor the words ‘Depart from Me you who despises Me.’
So there are at least two reasons for being banished from His presence forever.
And I will not either be one of these!
Z
seriosly dude !
Why you even wasting your time on this Blog commenting with these ” nut cases” Unless of course you want to be convinced.?
Get on with your life and leave us ” crazies” to believe what we believe we don’t come to athiest sites and harass you people.
IN Jesus’s own words ” John 17;9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
Blessings
“we believe we don’t come to athiest sites and harass you people.” I can’t be certain what you meant here, Bee because it doesn’t make sense. At least Z takes the time to proofread his comments. What I do know is that you came to a word-based site- if not to harass, then to learn. By being here and I’m certain having read some of the comments (you must have, else how would you know anyone here was “crazy”), you make yourself accountable to the very words you despise. I pray that you come to a knowledge or an acceptance of the truth because you’re now without excuse. That said, within the context of the verse you posted, Christ isn’t saying not to pray for the world and ergo those within the world content to wallow in the mire of their own disbelief; he was simply stating that the world had already been judged for their very unbelief. He sought protection for his disciples after his departure. This provisional impartation made it possible for them to endure in prayer that they might later evangelize that unbelieving world. So even what you tried to use as proof is testament against you. I recommend that along with proofreading your posts that you read the Bible- not to use it to try and lobb invectives against the people of the Word but that you, too, may find life eternal. Go back and re-read an earlier comment of mine towards Z, I layed out the plan of salvation for him. It’ll work for you as well. Maranatha.
Oh Dear Amando
My post came across wrong.
I am one of the ” Crazies” I;E believers in Jesus Christ and His word.
And yes, that is what I do with my life, I spend my time in the word unravelling the word. I know my Bible and it’s meaning better than you think, but thank you for trying to convince me to change my sinful ways and accept Christ.
Blessings
This is a message for Z,
Sorry to jump in here and go off this topic a little bit. But if you do not believe in Jesus Christ our Saviour and Lord and think its all rubbish, then why are you so angry at these people for beleiving? Clearly somehting is bothering you. Do any of the believers on this site attack or belittle you for your beliefs?
Dude that hell video kicks ass!
If Adam and Eve hadn’t have sinned would they have died and gone to heaven or hell? Wasn’t it their purpose to live on the earth forever and therefore not die or have an immortal after death soul? Wasn’t death – a cease of existance made for all humans? There are many deceptions with Christianity today, hellfire and an immortal soul are these. If we actually researched and read the bible I’m sure we would come to the accurate knowledge of Yaweh’s purpose – and to eternally punish the wicked is not one of them.
hi Honor
Just to be academic about it, this post was put here because someone said they had personal evidence of hell.
Your position is that it does not exist.
Do you have evidence that hell does NOT exist, to support your comment?
Or is it the definition of hell that you are at issue with?
Hi Marianne,
Yeah I can see but I really think that this is made up. I really think from studying the bible and having a look at alot of ways in history that the church included pagan festivals and ideas into Christianty I have been able to prove to myself that Hell isn’t biblical. Sheol – the original word used refers to the common grave of mankind – from dust you were from and dust you return. The dead cease to exist. If we were created not to die – then an additional “soul” cannot exist. It’s basic and the truth. I found this.. maybe you should read it – you may find many other biblical facts interesting too http://www.watchtower.org/e/20020715/article_01.htm
hi honor
Maybe hell is not to be experienced for eternity, but its effects are.
The wickedness of the soul has to be punished, but once that is accomplished, and the soul is purified, then the punishment is over.
It would be then that the EFFECTS of hell are eternal, but the TIME there is not for eternity.
Somehow, the wicked that remain wicked until death have to be punished somehow. What do you think?
Marianne,
Could you please define what you mean by soul.. To me a soul is a “living creature”
Shall we actually see what the bible has to say. “Through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned.” Romans 5:12 The wages sin pays is death Romans 6:23 – I would really like to know what scriptures you have found that says we have an immortal soul that lives on after death.
I think that we all inherited our first parents sin. There is no escaping the punishment of death yet. So we have to live in satans world for the time being. Isn’t this sometimes bad enough, all the disease, suffering we all have to go through, all because of satans challege – the bible speaks of the people living not worshippping God and enjoying this system as having their reward in full. Where as we know we have the future hope of living forever in a paradise. I beleive that the dead will get ressurected to judgement and then the wicked will have a “second death” and will cease to exist and never will again. I can’t see how a loving God would even make a provision such as hell. I know you may argue that we can’t contemplate his holyness but God understands us better than anything, so people who haven’t come to the truth get a second chance after the ressurection – death is a punsihment large enough without torturing them constantly.
I beg you to open your mind to the scriptures and see past the pagan churches doctrine of hell and what it apparently consists of and come to appreciate God as a loving god and fear him for his sheer power and fear him in awe, rather than an evil lie like hell.
hi honor
I have no fixed opinion of hell, because I have never been there.
I don’t want to either.
To me, the soul and body are separate aspects of us. The body can die, and the soul continue on.
My definition of soul, since this has to do with definitions a lot, is that aspect of the human that gives him his identity, and personality. It is what would make people recognize you vs me. This is attached to our eternal spirit, which cannot die, since that is our divine portion of ourselves, when we are made in God’s image.
When we go to heaven, we will be able to distinguish who is who…based on our personalities (souls). However, anything wrong with us would have to go through a cleansing, because anything unholy cannot stand before God.
You say:
So this means you do not believe in heaven either? Since there is no afterlife in another realm?
Many wicked live a wonderful life, enjoying themselves and then they die a peaceful death.
Many righteous live a horrible life, being persecuted and dying a terrible death.
How does this fit into a system of justice, if there is nothing after death, to punish the wicked, and reward the righteous?
Well Marianne, I’m happy to say you aren’t going to hell as it doesn’t exist.
Is your opinion on the soul being separate biblical? I believe that the bible teaches that God created us as intelligent & complex beings and we are born with free will and everyone is different because of this. An eternal spirit? again is this biblical that our eternal spirit lives on? I believe that when God created us and gave us life, spirit if you like, and when we die that life force returns to God – not an invisible, part of ourselves that lives on, just our energy.
I am really confused on where you would get from the bible that when we die we all go to heaven? I do believe in Heaven as being the dwelling plave for god and myriads on angels, but I’ve heard various people call themselves chosen to go to heaven but I can’t see it myself. We were meant to live on the earth – just as in the beginning – it wasn’t part of God’s plan to have us rocking about with him up there – we are to inhabit the earth.
Death is a punishment for adam and eve sinning – the fact that they got kicked out of Eden and went through alot of the pain and suffering associated with dying – this was a punishment from God as he knew that satan had won that challenge. Today we are alienated from God – and what god was prepared to give us in the first place I feel it is a very severe punishment for everyone. Justice doesn’t have to be torture for maybe thousands of years. If someone stole something would a suitable punishment be a burning torment? no! God bestowed many features of himself in Jesus and I didn’t hear of him throwing people in to hell. We need to stop beleiving that Yawheh is capable and unloving enough to invent a place of torment and understand what a priviledge it is to live and what a punishment it is to die. The justice will be made on judgement day.
I wonder what it takes for people to have such hatred for the Lord God Almighty I just challenge you to do 1 thing and that is ask him if he is real to show you
hi dybzzz
God is real to me. He is a God of love. I do not know why people would hate him.
Luke 16:26 “And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.” HAVE FAITH PEOPLE! Believe what the Bible says and count all contradictions as a lie.
The hatred that the demons in hell have for us is somewhat reminiscent of the hatred some atheists have for God and Christians who possess the spirit of evil within them. I have been debating with an atheist who seemed determined to downplay or crush my faith in God. He amongst others did and do not want to accept the fact that God is love, always quoting old testament scriptures whereby God commanded or allowed people to be destroyed. My answer to his comments were that we have two choices either to accept God’s laws and be on his side or to reject it and become his enemy. If we choose to be God’s enemy we can expect to be punished.
He went on and on and some comments I didn’t even read and deleted. Well what is there to say? He wanted me to prove that I didn’t have faith. You can’t prove faith in a laboratory the only way to express that you have faith is to love your enemies, forgive those who have harmed you, persecuted you or offended you, wish them the best even though they have ill feelings and intentions towards you and pray for them. That is what Jesus taught us and we live by his example.
If hypothetically speaking God does not exist (which in no way do I proclaim) A Christian life is still not wasted if he can do good to others in life, love and peace is a result of a relationship and union with Christ. Love and peace in your heart amidst turmoil is a good thing to have.
This taught me that in this day and age we certainly have to pray for all unbelievers and sinners because the spirit of evil is rampant amongst us.
I pray for the atheist who seemed to have so much hatred for God and Christianity and I pray that my comments to him have made evem if only a small but positive impact on him. God knows I tried my best!
hi Jill
Just do your best, and be confident in what you believe. Some will not believe even if Jesus came and talked to them in person. Just plant your seed, and move on. You have done what you should. Now, it is up to the atheist, and God.
Thanks for your encouragement Marianne. But “move on”? this person is stalking me via email. He or she won’t give up. I keep pressing the delete button.
hi jill
is there any way you can set up a block to the emails?
Or, maybe change or cancel your email address for awhile. This way the person will get an error message saying that the message could not be delivered.
Hi Marianne
Brilliant idea, thanks for the hint. There’s probably a way to avoid getting that person’s email. At this moment I’m still waiting to see whether or not after deleting their message they continue to respond or not. If so I’ll look into a way to stop the emails. Thanks once again!
hi Jill,
When I send out an email to a bad address, I get something like this back:
MAILER-DAEMON@yahoo.com
failure notice
If the evil person kept getting one of these, he would eventually give up.
easiest thing …change your address, and notify your friends, so they can still contact you.
Just watched this…I feel in my spirit that he is genuine. Also, I had a similar experience/dream/vision/experience, only it was of the Crucifixtion. God “withheld” from me as to who the man was lying on the ground/wood until the moment I tried to save him and then God revealed to me who the man was-Jesus. It was just as real as sitting here in my living room typing this. i have often thought about Einstein’s theory of time travel because that is exactly what happened. Somehow, someway God took me to Jesus’ crucifixion..so i truly believe this man’s experience. And we should all take him seriously. God is awesome! He is the smartest guy I know…LOL in that how could he transport me back in time and this gentleman to Hell. Amazing! If you are skeptical in the least, just ask God to reveal himself to you…Believe that He will-fully expect it and then you’ll be typing a comment on the next post with your amazing experience!
“No greater victory could be won other than for Satan and his angels to convince mankind that ‘hell’ does not exist!”
Well said.
Or is it Satan’s victory to convince you all that God is that harsh he would condemn all wicked to eternal TOURMENT??
You’ve got to be kidding. If you think hell is something made up by Satan to fool Christians, your are spiritually lost. Have you read, and more importantly, studied the bible? Christ came the 1st time as a lamb, and will come the 2nd time as a roaring lion. You don’t understand the death sentence we’re all under. God is not harsh. He offers a full pardon for anyone willing to give their heart, mind and body to Christ. Pride and arrogance will prevent many from doing so and they will endure eternal torment in hell as a consequence. Study the parables and the meaning of the stories in the bible. If you only read the bible, without studying the underlying meaning of everything, its real message won’t come through for you.
Thank you for the reply. Yes I have studied the scriptures thank you very much, I am a practicing, preaching Christian and I am certainly not spiritually lost my friend. I have studied the parables and illustrations our Messiah Christ Jesus gave us in the Bible and more importantly understood what he was trying to portray. It is very important first and foremost to look at the very basics of our very being. We were not created by God to die. Therefore, why would God, create man to live forever on earth and yet create this immortal soul to be rewarded or punished when they die? (Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10) God pronounced this punishment on Adam (Genesis 3:19) and there was no mention of hell was there?
The talk of hellfire is symbolic and not to be taken literally. Jesus spoke about the wicked landing in Gehenna, the lake of fire symbolizes eternal destruction. So what about Hades? Are they the same thing? No. As God said to Adam, we will be no more and return to dust. There is no eternal part of us that lives on. We are awaiting on God’s mercy to ressurect the dead (Revelation 20:13) to judgement with the chance of everlasting life.
If you believe in the doctrine of hell, you have to weigh up what it says in the scriptures and believeing in hell does not add up.
Who created hell?
Why were we created with an immortal soul that lives on beyond death if we were not meant to die in the first place.
Why would God want to torment people eternally? Would you put your own childs hand over a flame if it had been naughty? No. Neither does God.
Hell is a tool that satan uses to make God look cruel and hatefull but he is the God of love and would not create hell or send people there.
Study the underlying meaning for yourself. Do some digging. You’ll come to love Yahweh .
All I can say is, I hope you find the truth before you draw your last breath. You’ve twisted scripture, but nothing I or anyone else can say will change your mind. Itching ears will hear what they want to hear. That’s why the bible speaks of a remnant. So few will make it.
Dear Honor
Those that end up in hell are not children of God. They are children of Satan, and share the same destiny that they have willingly chosen for themselves.
Remember Jesus died a horrible death to pay for our sins. It was not to free us from a slap on the wrist.
I admit that there is some difference in interpretation on the time in hell and its effects. For example, do we actually suffer for eternity, or do we burn up immediately, and then cease to exist for eternity?
Mat 8:12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 22:13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast [him] into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
You say …’Would you put your own childs hand over a flame if it had been naughty?’
I say to you that unless you repent that is where you are going.
God is Holy.
Not all are His children.
You say … ‘The talk of hellfire is symbolic and not to be taken literally.’
I say … ‘Renounce magic potions, that ye may be worthy of the mysteries of the Light and be saved from the great cold and the hail of the outer darkness.
You say … ‘Hell is a tool that satan uses to make God look cruel and hatefull but he is the God of love and would not create hell or send people there.’
I say … ‘Renounce blasphemy, that ye may be worthy of the mysteries of the Light and be saved from the great dragon of the outer darkness.’
Hmm interesting. Would you be as kind as to tell me where you got those last 2 quotations from?
All you can say is that you don’t understand the scriptures and therefore cannot answer the questions I put forward to you which make the hell doctrine incompatible with God’s inspired word.
I hope you find the truth my friend John 8:32. Free from all the false doctrines that have destroyed Christendom.
The bible talks of satan being abyssed, and then destroyed forever. Exactly like the evil, wicked people that do not have the right heart condition for God’s Kingdom. Jesus died in order for us to gain everlasting life so that we don’t get destroyed, not literally tormented forever. Hell is not literal. We do not burn as there is no immortal part of us to burn. The bible’s message is simple. It’s when doctrines like immortality of the soul get believed that the message from God gets twisted. Thank you for your comment Marianne. I enjoy looking at your page.
Mat 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast [them] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
You say … ‘We do not burn as there is no immortal part of us to burn.’
I say ….’Renounce your blindfolds, that ye may be worthy to receive the mysteries
of the Kingdom of Light and be saved from the everlasting fire.
Hell is not eternal torment, but it is the final and irrevocable choosing of that which is opposed to God so completely and so absolutely that the only end is total non-being.
Revelation 20:14: And death and Ha´des were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire.
So since death amd Ha’des cannot be literally burnt, would you agree it is symbolism??
no
Haha! Thought not.
🙂
Remember the resurrection of the dead for the final judgment. I wonder what will happen to those bodies if the soul is judged as wicked?
Luk 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay [them] before me.
Hi Marianne,
Isaiah answers that, and it is quite scary…
“And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcasses of the men that have rebelled against Me; for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.” (IS 66:24)
To the person that say’s there’s no God need to talk my husband he use to be like him.This person has a good heart no matter what Jesus will except you if you submit your self to him and you will one day.There is enough of us on here praying together will change his life.Mr.Zarathustra you know the power of prayer and Jesus working on your behalf.There are so many dreams and visions that I’ve had in the past and even now that has happen.This is a gift that all of us can have.Just ask the creator tor reveal it to you this is the key.God bless Gp
There are people that has experience the nail prints in there hands,the nail prints in there feet like christ.I believe he experience this in his life.Jesus can use anyone he please to get a point to some people.There are family members and the body of church who don’t believe this either cause they have not ask Jesus to reveal it to them for proof.My Jesus is proof enough for me and that’s all that matter.I enjoy these different topics God bless to you all.GP
The fellow that don’t know Jesus is a test for all of us.We have to pray for him that the darkness he’s in will melt for good.Jesus need every soul in the world.He will change,he will be one of Jesus best to be around.Let us be postive about him.Thanks,Gp
your unconsciousness, Bill’s subconsciousness, showed him this. Hell, heaven, it is all earth, there is only reincarnation and purgatory. Hell is here on earth, Heaven is here on earth. I do not mean to discredit anyone’s personal beliefs but interpretations of the bible and religion can actually create a metaphysical world in which hell exists. As a man of God i can tell you there is no hell, there is only here now and it is only filled with love. After death there is life, your dream within a dream (present life) is as true as you make it. Some may say even the devil is a friend if he makes you resent a part of yourself containing sin. This mans experience of hell is no different than my experience of heaven. His fear is his fear. My bliss is my bliss. You create, you are. what your subconscious reflects is merely your own mind and this mans mind is not clear. It is very hard to have one but by practicing an interpretation and telling it to others as a fact. Christ confronted demons within himself and therefore it is shown to us as a message for Christians that we must do the same. Confronting a demon is as simple as approaching a sensitive subject about a relationship with only love and truth in mind. With love and truth you find a new something in yourself allowing you to meet a challenge you NEVER thought you could do. It could even be as simple as forgiving someone who doesn’t deserve it, but removing your ego to allow that person to heal and yourself to heal in the process. He speaks of real pain, well I tell you that a much more beautiful thing is real healing, here now. This mans dream time is not the servant to gods dream time.
Hi Marianne
just one question – are you one person? you are a busy girl!! 6
hi damien
yes I am one person…and busy too. 🙂
Wow! I cannot believe what I am reading.You people are so very very gullible.hell does exist and it is real .with all your stupid explanations about how hell does not exist and that god does not let us go to hell .You forget that God is not only a God of Love but also a god of Justice and that means .You either obey the Lord’s commandments or you know where you are going to end up and that place is HELL. Do not be elude by the smoke of Satan His biggest triumph was to make you believe that He does not exist and that hell is a fragment of your imagination .well my poor friends unfortunately for us it does exist and it is real .You not wanting to believe it will be harder for you at the end of your life when you face yourself inside of it.If the Lord has chosen that Christian man and women to show them hell it is his right to chose whom ever He pleases He does not have to ask our permission to do so.He is the Creator and has every right to do so. Sorry it was not a catholic this time but a little closer a christian .All those who do not believe it is possible are doing Satan’s work for him and will likely follow him after death.
Can you please provide me with the title of the book written by the Russian Jew who survived the holocaust and WWII so that I can read it and cross reference it with the account of the person in the above video? Please provide me with the name of the book that the Russian Jew wrote so that I can research all of this further.
Dear Ryan
I am not sure which book you mean. I am not aware of a holocaust survivor who took a trip to hell also. Here are some books about the holocaust and the Russian people:
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2009/jul/16/holocaust-the-ignored-reality/
http://jta.org/news/article/2010/01/25/1010298/jeiwsh-themed-book-distributed-to-russian-youth
–
Rosa;
Hell is real. That’s why we should be sharing the Good News with everyone who will listen.
wow, there is alot of energy used convincing unbelievers of the truth. I was exhausted reading the comments. We are wasting to much time trying to do God’s work for him. God’s people knows his voice. and do Luke 10:10-12 apply on the internet. Love is the key. How can you convince Satan that God loves him or tell him about hell. Some people do not want to be free. can’t you tell them from the ones that do. To much time is being spent with the enemy. We have work to do. Some come and some follow. I am a follower. Let Jesus teach the one that choose to come. And to hell with the ones that dont. Amen
hi bdchantell
True, unbelievers tend not to listen to the Word of God when presented. Some believers hope that they can “plant a seed” by discussing hell. But it will eventually take the holy spirit acting on that person to make a difference, if the person even listens then.
Many come but not all follow. We plant but it is God who gives the increase.To much time is being waisted on Satan know the diffrence. The unbeliever has to be willing to accept Christ (love) He who has an ear let him hear what the Lord is saying. God’s children knows his voice. During the time he was with us he never forced his views he simply shared them. We were taught by Paul to avoid such idiotic behavior in debating. We are to preach the God News. Compeling the people to come is being taken to far. The seed has been planted now allow the Lord to do his part he is able! How many times will you sow in an area that is not yielding fruit. why sit there and wait. The Lord gave the message to who he choose to give it to concerning Hell. The seed has already been planted Behold the glory of the Great I am he gives the increase. Pray for the Lost that they may be found and celebrate the distruction of those that cursed God and have committed crimes against mankind. They will see that it is real. Those that God has chosen to save will not see hell because of ministers like you that isnt afraid to wittness. However, allow the Lord to give the increase trust in him. Be blessed in the Lord. Increas and abundance!
The new church I go to has a film maker who makes Christian films. Here’s his web sites. We’re doing movies this summer on Wednesday nights instead of Bible study. We discuss the movie after we see it. This was last weeks movie: “The End of the Harvest”. It made some people think.
http://www.christianfilms.com/dcf.htm
http://realchristianity.wordpress.com/2008/03/03/promoting-the-gospel-style-vs-promoting-the-gospel-message/
The gospel is simply unless a person repents and puts their trust in Christ ALONE,they will go to hell because we are all guilty before God but Christ showed his love to us by taking the punishment that should have been ours, and dying on the cross providing a way out for us so that we can receive the forgiveness of sins and escape his wrath.
Is the WHOLE gospel told on a regular basis in whatever form (not just a Jesus loves you gospel)? Is the the wrath of God mentioned? Is hell mentioned? I am not saying that you must do hell fire preaching but to truly appreciate salvation, you have to know what you are saved from and you have to explain the whole counsel of God and not just parts which the hearers do not want to hear
God bless you. Amen
Boy, that will be a very scary situation for those who are sinners. “I am so thank-ful God died for my sins and I am born again!” Oh to see Jesus face and receive a big hug from him…..I can hardly wait!
Praise you Jesus, Praise you (*_*)
hi Joy
I agree with you. I would rather avoid hell.
So many people are resistant to this kind of message.
But it seems logical to try to live a good life, and love God, and accept Jesus, rather than live in rebellion, and take this chance of going to hell.
Yeah rebellion equals blindness to the truth
To Zarathustra & the other sceptics, I haven’t seen the video I don’t need to. Now Marianne & I rarely agree on anything but I can tell you this: The hell dimension is real and just stock full of surprises for those who need a little (or a lot) of soul cleansing. I dont subscribe to any religions but spend some of my nights in Hell & It’s NOT a place human souls want to end up.
Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater: Separate GOD from religion on this planet.
The Christ Spirit is your key to a better life afterwards because time is literally running out for humans. There will be no more reincarnation cycles after Genesis is closed. The Dark planets much less hospitable than this level of Hell on Earth will be your only choice.
Start Searching NOW within for your personal connection to GOD via Christ.
You can get Bill’s book on hell in christian bookstore’s I think.I came across that book in the grocery store I work in,and read the back cover,cause it looked interesting,& I had to buy it.Boy let me say that book REALLY shook me!! after reading it.and I think he’s right.EVERYONE would do good to read it,no matter what they believe.I even sent an extra one to my father,but hope he didn’t think that me sending him it mean’s I think he’s going there.But I don’t even think he read any,wich is upseting.my whole life Iv’e never known him to be religious.Why are people so quick to not believe?(like Z)is it just because they haven’t seen with their eye’s or not been there?It’s called FAITH! just like some people don’t believe in angel’s just cause they’ve never seen one.that’s kinda sad.and some people(like my step-father,it seem’s)think I’m just naive & gullible for believing this book.By the way,where is Z?it look’s like he hasn’t replied since 2009. is he alive?
hi Emily
I am not sure where Z went. I know he is in school. Maybe he got busy there.
Does anyone know when that movie is coming out,based on Mary Baxter’s “a divine revelatin of hell”?that person Mark mentioned.That would be great making it a movie I think,cause message might get through to more people & see more real to them.I have couple of her book’s and they are so facinating! the thing’s she has witnessed! I can hardly put the book down.
hi Emily
I was not aware there was a movie about hell. So, I do not know when it would come out. Where did you hear this?
Almost every week i dream of the rapture. Its more of a vision than a dream. the Lord is letting me know that his coming is very very clsoe at hand. Closer than we can imagine. the mansions are ready. All that is left now is for the Father to signal chrrist to return with His holly angels. I’ve made up my mine to go into full time ministry just to plaed wit as many as i could all over the world to run to the lord jesus and be saved. Hell is more real thaan life on planet earth.
Almost every week these days I dream of the rapture. Its more of a vision than a dream. And very very real! The Lord is letting me know that his coming is very very clsoe at hand. Closer than we can imagine. The mansions above are long ready. All that is left now is for the Father to signal His son Jesus Christ to return with His holy angels and raptur the chosen ones. I’ve made up my mine to go into full time ministry just to pleed with as many souls as I could all over the world to run to the Lord Jesus and be saved. Hell is more real than life on planet earth. Imagine being there for ever and ever with the Devil who NEVER forgives.. with horrible imps carying fritful spears eager to please him by tormenting lost souls, snakes scopions vicious bats and maggods that eat you up and never dies! I’m so terribly scared to get there.and so should YOU!
dear Divine
I pray God uses you to reach many people. May he protect you at each step of the way.
Hi Divine,
The rapture could be very close? We will have to wait and see and pray that we will be counted as worthy to participate. (Luke 21:36.)
Just a small question though, if you believe that Paul is describing the rapture in 1 Thess.4,
How come there is no mention of angels (plural)?
There is only the mention of the voice of an archangel, where “all” rise up in the air to meet the Lord in the clouds. How come there is no mention of angels heading to the earth to gather everyone?
Something to ponder over perhaps?
Be Blessed
Hi everyone,
I just stumbbled across this website and I find it very interesting. It’s amazing that people say heaven and hell is just an imagination; amazing and yet very sad.. Oh hell is vey real and I don’t know how else to explain. Whether or not the video and the personal testimony is true it doesn’t change the truth about the existance of hell.
For Z and all those who do not believe in hell, God loves you and desires that you should not spend eternity in hell, that is why He allowed you to have the opportunity to hear about hell while you still have the breath of life. When you die it’s too late. The opportunity has been given, now the ball is in your court, you can choose to believe and be safe from hell, or you can let the opportunity go and be forever damned. Make that decision while you still have breath.
Honor,
all I can tell you is that hell exists and there is nothing anyone or anything can do to change it. Period. No appologies. Don’t just read the Bible and take it for what it is and what it says, the Bible is just a book with stories and that’s about all it is. People can have so many interpretation of the Bible and trust me satan knows the Bible back to front. “It’s just a book”, that’s my point. If you want it to come alive and really understand it, ask the Holy Spirit, after all He’s the one that inspired it.
hi Grace
Thanks for stopping by. I hope people heed your words. What we believe is not always reality. We tend to believe what is convenient for us, not what is true.
i dont wanna go there too. but the things is i want my whole family to be there too. i dont wanna lose one of them to hell. so its’ an encourage for all of us people around the world we should accept christ as our saviour and follow his commands..
god bless everyone
dear Sela
Let us all agree in prayer that your whole family accepts Jesus as Savior. Let the presence and power of God cover them, touch them, and open their eyes to the truth.
God bless you and your family.
I agree with that. Jesus said we can ask and he will give it. God bless you and your family too. Love you in Jesus
Sela
Your heart is in the right place. Some people just refuse to believe, while others have not had the opportunity to hear the Gospel and make that choice. That is why the gospel must be preached to all the world.
John 15
Abide in the vine
Yes i know am in the right place. But we can do to the people who still refuse Jesus? I think that’s what they decided and we can just pray for them to change their mind because we know Satan catch them.
Sela,
Yes it will be sad to lose family members and loved ones to hell. I guess all we can do is pray for eachother and for family members who are not yet saved. Everyone has to work on their own salvation daily, we can always encourage and strengthen eachother.
God bless.
Grace,
Thank you so much for the prayer and encourage. I really appreciate that. Let us all ask Jesus for revival in the world. I know through Jesus we can do all things possible. So it is important to decide today. We might not know when are we going to die. But i hope that we always that Jesus is coming everytime so that we can improve ourself to Godliness way.
God Bless.
Corithians 6:9&10
Hell
Hell is the future place of eternal punishment of the damned including the devil and his fallen angels. There are several words rendered as Hell: Hades – A Greek word. It is the place of the dead, the location of the person between death and resurrection. (See Matt. 11:23; 16:18; Acts 11:27; 1 Cor. 15:55; Rev. 1:18; 6:8). Gehenna – A Greek word. It was the place where dead bodies were dumped and burned (2 Kings 23:13-14). Jesus used the word to designate the place of eternal torment (Matt. 5:22,29,30; Mark 9:43; Luke 12:5). Sheol – A Hebrew word. It is the place of the dead, not necessarily the grave, but the place the dead go to. It is used of both the righteous (Psalm 16:10; 30:3; Isaiah 38:10) and the wicked (Num. 16:33; Job. 24:19; Psalm 9:17). Hell is a place of eternal fire (Matt. 25:41; Rev. 19:20). It was prepared for the devil and his angels (Matt. 25:41) and will be the abode of the wicked (Rev. 21:8) and the fallen angels (2 Pet. 2:4).
hello Dr Anderson
Good definitions. Many do not believe in a place of eternal punishment because they operate under a different definition of hell. We have to realize that the word is used differently for different scenarios, and a place of torment is also a legitimate use of the word.
Marianne,
why can’t we watch this anymore, it wouldn’t load.
google must have removed it. I substituted another one but it will not be the same
Did you ever read that book 20 Minutes in hell? That is a good one too! If you haven’t, you should look it up, and I think there is a video on it too on youtube..
dear Lyn
I have heard of the book. I think I have seen videos. thanks.
What did you think of it, if you don’t mind my asking. I read the book, oh back in 2010 I think it was…
I do not know if the videos I saw were directly related to the book, or experiences of other people.
Oh, and I’m glad I found your website..I accidentally came across it doing a pics post for one of my posts on my website..great site! God bless you sister!
I am encouraged for your boldness to share your experence about hell for all to see and, I strongly belive that this personal testimony of yours will save many from going to hell. May the Lord strenghten you the more in Jesus name. AMEN
I am encouraged for your boldness to share your experence about hell for all to see and, I strongly belive that this personal testimony of yours will save many from going to hell.
Hi Marianne and all,
As I said earlier, I have been going through your list of posts and I came across this one, which I would like to expound on. First of all, I would like to point out that there are three individual words translated as Hell in most versions of the New Testament. Below, I have listed each of the words and their definitions, which are as follows:
Hades:
This is the word used to convey where the rich man, of Lazarus and the rich man went after he died. This place as identified by Scripture is located in the heart of the earth and is a temporary place of torment for the lost dead, where they will remain until they are resurrected out only to stand before God at the great white throne judgment of the lost dead. We know that it is down in the heart of the earth because Jesus identified its location when he said:
“And you, Capernaum, will you be lifted to the heavens? No, you will go [down to Hades]. For if the miracles that were performed in you had been performed in Sodom, it would have remained to this day.” (Mt.11:23)
The following is Strong’s definition of Hades based on Scripture:
Hades, the unseen world. hádēs (from 1 /A “not” and idein/eidō, “see”) – properly, the “unseen place,” referring to the (invisible) realm in which all the dead reside, i.e. the present dwelling place of all the departed (deceased); Hades. for the lost dead only and not the righteous dead (Emphasis mine).
To show by Scripture that Hades is a temporary place of punishment, we need only to go to Rev.20:13-15
“The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
We can see by the Scripture, that at the end of the thousand year reign of Christ, the lost dead are resurrected out of Hades, are judged and then anyone’s name that is not found written in the book of life is then thrown into the lake of fire, which is also designated as Hell (Geenna) and also as the second death, showing that they are two different places.
Tartarus/Taroo:
This word is used only once in 2 Pet.2:4 which says,
“For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;”
I believe that the angels that Peter is referring to here were those angels, those sons of God, who took wives from the progeny of men and who brought forth those giants/Nephilm as mentioned in Gen.6. and in Enoch
Strong’s defines Tartarus as,
tartaróō – properly, send to Tartarus (“Tartaros”). The NT uses 5020 (tartaróō) for the netherworld – the place of punishment fit only for demons.
In short, Tartaroo is a place within the earth specifically for those angels who sinned and is a different place from Hades and the Abyss. Jude also mentions these same angels and their judgment when he says:
“And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling—these he has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day. ”
Geenna:
In my opinion, Geenna is the only word that should rightly be translated as Hell. The other designations for Geenna are the lake of fire and the second death. This represents the final place of punishment for all whose names will not be found written in the book of life at the judgment of the lost dead. As stated earlier, we know that Hades and the lake of fire/Hell are two individual places in that, those who come out of Hades and whose names are not found written in the book of life will then be thrown into the Hell, the lake of fire. This is the place where Jesus said:
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.”
So from the Scripture above, we can see that Hell, the lake of fire was created for Satan and his angels, which is the final place of torment for both men and fallen angels. This is also supported by the fact that Scripture states,
“the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
In fact, even Death and Hades are thrown into the lake of fire at the last judgment:
“Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. ”
Now I said all this to point out that, most people erroneously refer to Hades as Hell, not discerning the difference between the two places. Hell/Geenna/Lake of fire/second death, which are all referring to the same place which is rightfully translated as Hell, is a completely different location from Hades. Those on this post and others, who are claiming that they went to Hell, did not go to the lake of fire, but went to Hades within the earth, that is if in fact those events actually took place. According to Scripture, no one currently resides in Hell, that is, the Lake of Fire, but all of the lost are currently in Hades. The first two recipients for Hell will be the beast and the false prophet, with Satan and those who whose names are not found written in the book of life to follow. (Rev.19:20, 20:10, 15)
I hope that this clears up the difference between these two places of torment.
don
thank you for that. I have heard of the 3 terms. it is good to make this clear.
hades is temporary but the punishment is eternal, because the wicked are just transferred from hades to gehenna after judgement.
some believe they spend time in purgagtory, then go to heaven after that.
when people give their experiences about “hell” they are using the terms in the bible, which does not make the distinctions you made.
Good morning Marianne!
Yeah, my point is that Hades and Hell/Lake of fire are not the same places, even though they are both places of torment in flame. If I was the one writing the Scriptures, wherever the Greek word Hades was found, I would translate it as Hades and everything else (Lake of fire, second death, Geenna) would refer to actual Hell.
I happened to be channel surfing one day and stopped on the 700 Club where Pat Robertson was interviewing Bob Weis regarding his experience in Hades. And Pat Robertson asked Bob, “When you were down there, did you happen to see a lake of fire anywhere?” At that point I did the V8 head slap, as I couldn’t believe that this leader of the 700 Club was asking that question. Bob also referred to the place where he went to as Hell, but he actually went to Hades. He spoke about where he was as being very hot and having solid ground. In the story of Lazarus and the rich man where the rich man was in Hades, solid ground is also mentioned, as there was a great gulf or trench which separated the place of paradise from Hades. The lake of Fire on the other hand is, as its name suggests, a lake; no solid ground is mentioned nor is its location revealed.
If people would do a little bit of studying, they would have the same information that I posted, because that’s where I got it from. By the way, there is no such place as Purgatory (Sorry you Catholics). Since Roman Catholicism teaches that Jesus only paid the penalty for original sin and that any sin committed after baptism must be dealt with through the sacraments via a priest; then any sin committed that was not atoned for in life will be purged away by fire in Purgatory. The problem with this, other than the obvious is that, fire cannot purge away sin, the shed blood of Christ purifies us from all unrighteousness. What a waste it would have been for Jesus to come here, only to pay the penalty for original sin and not all of it. Not only that, but the sacraments attempt to atone for sin by performing works/sacraments.
Do you want to know what Hell feels like? the fever… In Hell, it is said that it is 1000X the pain.. ofcourse, not mentioning the other torments around!
I had visions of hell when I was new in Christ, I was tormented by it day and night. today not so much traumatised by those visions but I believe those visions was given to me in order to have healthy dose of fear of The Lord, when I do have thoughts of hell now its scares me enough to evaluate if my walk is right, I think that’s been my challenge of late. I think its a good fear as long as the enemy doesn’t abuse it.
Thank you for your site, time is short people need to get serious. God bless.
god bless you too
Hi Anonyn,
That is exactly the right response, for we should indeed fear God, but we should also know that he loves us. Many people disagree when we bring up the fear of God, saying that we should not fear God. We should recognize him as God almighty, the creator of all things and the One who has power over life and death. For Jesus told his disciples the following, which was meant for all believers as well when he said:
“Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. (Mt.10:28)
The verse above tells us who we should fear, why we should fear and with what kind of fear we should have. Since we are saved by grace through faith and this not by own efforts, it is God who has mercy upon whom he will have mercy and compassion upon whom he will have compassion and this by his own will and not because we deserve it nor can we earn it. Our part is faith.
[…] people claim to have died (their dying was medically proven) and gone to heaven as well as hell. https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/a-personal-trip-to-hell/ One particular person was a 4 year old who died during surgery and says that he went to Heaven. He […]
India Reckoner said this on July 8, 2014 at 1:00 am |
God is one
Jesus is real the church is you us with out faith what is there this is no scare tactic this is 100% real I pray you get your own understanding and not be diecieved by them.
Wow – this is terrifying and to think hell is just 3000 miles down towards the center of the earth.
If hell is real! Then everyone is gonna visit someday.
Hi Jane,
Not for those in Christ. For there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the believer Scripture states that to be absent from the body is to be in the presence of the Lord, which means that at the time of death our spirits/souls depart from the body and go to be with Christ. In contrast, when the unbeliever dies their spirit/soul departs from the body and goes into Hades, which is within the earth where they will remain until the great white throne judgment. (See Luke 2 Corinthians 5:8, Philippians 1:22-23, Luke 16:19-31 and Rev.20:11)
It’s interesting how many claims are made of firsthand experiences with the lake of fire considering that it is not yet in existence. According to the word the lake of fire is a place reserved for the day of judgment. Every person who has ever died is in the grave. There is no one in the lake of fire at this time. Furthermore the lake of fire is a place where the angels will throw the wicked to be burned into ashes and out of existence
Hi,
Hell and Lake of Fire are completely different. When a believer dies his soul goes to a waiting place called “Paradise”, while the unbelievers go to a place called “Hell”.
Only after the Great White Throne judgement (Rev 20) will they be assigned to Heaven or Lake of Fire. It is definitely AFTER the 1000 years reign, not before that.
echad
thank you for making that distinction.