Jordan’s Reversal in the Last Days
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What will go wrong with Jordan?
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Jordan has had a peaceful history with Israel since 1967, after its defeat in the Third Arab – Israeli War.
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The current King Abdullah of Jordan is the offspring of a Muslim father, and a Christian mother.
He has what seems to be a tolerant, friendly and open relationship with Christians and Jews .
Will something change with his country, or with him?
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However, there are some passages which show that Jordan is not favor with God in the end times.
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Even though it has a current positive relationship with Israel, as of this writing, something will go wrong.
Jordan is the modern name for the territories of Moab, Edom, and Ammon.
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Isaiah 34 describes Edom in the last days, starting with the 6th seal.
Isa 34:2 For the indignation of the LORD [is] upon all nations, and [his] fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter.
Isa 34:4 And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling [fig] from the fig tree.
This passage is equivalent to Rev 6:14
Rev 6:13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
Rev 6:14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
At this point, the wrath of God turns toward Edom. It is as if Edom is top on the list for vengeance.
Isa 34:5 ¶ For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea [Edom], and upon the people of my curse, to judgment.
Isa 34:6 The sword of the LORD is filled with blood, it is made fat with fatness, [and] with the blood of lambs and goats, with the fat of the kidneys of rams: for the LORD hath a sacrifice in Bozrah, and a great slaughter in the land of Idumea.
The wrath is due to its treatment of Zion
Isa 34:8 ¶ For [it is] the day of the LORD’S vengeance, [and] the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.
The destruction is forever. Edom will become a wasteland.
Isa 34:10 It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.
Who is Edom?
http://biblereferenceguide.com/keywords/edom.html
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Moab and Philistia
There are similar prophecies about Moab and Philistia (Gaza), but it is not in the context of the end times, that I can find, so these passages are less specific.
However, in passages like the following, the punishment for them is “perpetual desolation,” which has not happened yet.
Woe unto the inhabitants of the sea coast, the nation of the Cherethites! the word of the LORD [is] against you; O Canaan, the land of the Philistines, I will even destroy thee, that there shall be no inhabitant.
And the coast [Gaza] shall be for the remnant of the house of Judah; they shall feed thereupon: in the houses of Ashkelon shall they lie down in the evening: for the LORD their God shall visit them, and turn away their captivity.
I have heard the reproach of Moab, and the revilings of the children of Ammon, whereby they have reproached my people, and magnified [themselves] against their border.
Therefore [as] I live, saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, Surely Moab shall be as Sodom, and the children of Ammon as Gomorrah, [even] the breeding of nettles, and saltpits, and a perpetual desolation: the residue of my people shall spoil them, and the remnant of my people shall possess them.
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Will Jordan really be a safe and protected place?
Right now, at the beginning of 2012, Jordan is a neutral country, and has open doors to Israel.
Many think that Jordan will be a blessed and safe place for Jews during the Tribulation, so this would be reason to for Jordan to avoid the wrath of God.
The justification for this is indirect reasoning from scriptures, which seems to be logical on the surface of things, although none of the passages directly confirm this assumption:
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Reference for the following passage , Petra as a safe place:
http://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/why-petra/
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There are three clues that hint at Petra being the hiding place for the Jew during the Great Tribulation.
One is in Daniel 11:41 where we learn that Jordan will be one of the only places that elude the Anti-Christ’s control during the Great Tribulation.
The second is in Rev. 12:14 which says that the woman, who represents the believing remnant of Israel, will flee into the desert to a place prepared for them during the Great Tribulation.
The closest desert hiding place is Petra.
And the third is in Isaiah 63:1 where the Lord is shown coming from Bozrah, the region where Petra is located, having defeated His enemies there.
Many scholars believe that He will do this just prior to arriving in Jerusalem at the 2nd Coming, to protect the believing remnant.
Who [is] this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this [that is] glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save.
From the non-Biblical side, Jordan does have a peace treaty with Israel, and Petra is an ideal location for the Jews to seek refuge.
End of reference .
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Analysis
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In the reasons above,
1. there is more than one reason why the Antichrist would avoid destroying Jordan.
a. One is that it is a safe place for Jews.
b. Another is that Jordan has an alliance / covenant with the Antichrist, and may even provide safe passage through the country to get to Israel.
c. The antichrist is from there, and would not destroy his own territory
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In the post below,
Movement of Antichrist / fierce leader of end times
it is seen that the fierce leader of the last days has to travel south first, then spreads both east, and west into Israel.
Dan 8:9 ¶ And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the (1) south, and (2) toward the east, and (3) toward the pleasant [land- ie Israel].(only direction left is west)
If the passage came directly south into Jordan, there would have to be unobstructed passage through Jordan to reach Israel.
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2. Jordan is not the only “wilderness” or desert available to Israel for flight away from the Antichrist’s oppression.
Jews were told to flee to the hills of Judea by Jesus.
Jews could possibly flee from Jerusalem, and head south toward the Judean desert.
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3. Yes the Lord is showing coming from Bozrah, having defeated enemies there.
This could also be the first place God’s wrath is executed, and has nothing to do with hiding Jews in Petra, and protecting Jordan.
Petra is not actually mentioned here as a place of refuge. This is inserting a context that was not there originally.
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Jordan in the War Scroll
Reference:
The Dead Sea Scrolls: A New Translation
by: Michael Wise Martin Abegg, Jr. Edward Cook
HarperSanFrancisco
1996
1QM, 4Q491-496
The first lines of the scroll (1QM 1:1-7) lay the framework for a three-stage conflict between the Sons of Light–that is, members of the Yahad[1] (see 1QS 3:13)–and the Sons of Darkness.
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2 alliances (covenants) and 2 battles
The first battle finds the adversaries led by the Kittim of Assyria.
(Although the name Kittim is often used in the scrolls as a reference to the Romans, its basic sense seems to have been "archetypical bad guys.")
The Kittim of Asshur (Modern Iraq) come in alliance with the biblical enemies Edom, Moab, Ammon (all Modern Jordan), and Philistia (Gaza).
Cooperating with this unholy alliance are the "violators of the covenant": Jews who had spurned the message of the Yahad and in so doing aligned themselves with the Sons of Darkness.
**Note: Observation so far
The Kittim of Asshur represents Iraq and the surrounding regions. This is all Islamic territory, mainly Shiite.
Edom, Moab, Ammon is modern Jordan.
Philistia is Gaza.
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Is this alliance the covenant spoken of by Daniel?
Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
The “many” would be about 1.6 billion Muslims.
If so, then “HE” who is the Prince to come, comes either from
Asshur (Iraq and surrounding area) or from
Edom / Ammon / Moab ( Jordan), or from
Philistia ( Gaza)
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Also, this indicates 2 covenants:
1. The covenant (alliance) between Asshur, Jordan and Gaza.
2. The covenant between the Jews who reject the Yahad, and embrace the other alliance.
These Jews align with the enemy to save themselves.
This can be seen already in some of the political controversy present in Israel.
It is a balancing act between Jewish loyalty to Israel, and avoiding annihilation.
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King Abdullah and wife Rania with their son Hashem
(Hashem is how Jews address YHVH)
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Summary in light of current world events.
Jordan’s position with respect to Israel will change, according to prophecy.
Currently, the Muslim Brotherhood is working to over throw all governments who are at peace with Israel, and convert them into hostile nations that would do Israel harm.
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Will King Abdullah remain in power?
Certainly, this country, King Abdullah, and his family need our prayers.
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If King Abdullah becomes part of the alliance against Israel, then he is in serious trouble with God.
If the Muslim brotherhood go against him to remove him, and replace him with a radical terrorist, then he is in danger.
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Israel is also in the greatest danger, since this will open the way for an invasion of Israel, if Jordan becomes a radical terrorist state.
Jordan is certainly a country to watch at this time.
Pray !!!
Heaven Awaits 
Nice post Marianne,
You wrote of petra calling it “refuse” rather than “refuge” you may want to correct the typo.
I would like to point you to psalm 83 again. Here we see Edom, the Ishmaelites, Moab, the Hagrites (Descendents of Hagar), Gebal, Ammon, Amalek, Philistia, TYRE, and Asshur (Assyria), Invading Israel, to take the “pastures of God”. The reference to “Pastures” indicates that Famine could be a factor in this war, but note that Magog, Elam, Babylon, Egypt, and other muslim countries are not named in this psalm. This is a confirmation of your posting.
I would like to point out that this psalm is a psalm of “Asaph”, which in hebrew means “gatherer”. Asaph was a musician who prophesied with Psalms, (1 Chron 25:1-2). His psalms are “ripe” with prophecy, as I have pointed out before on this site, Psalm 50 being a prime example which talks of the “gathering” of Israel (verse 5).
corrected spelling..thanks
Concerning King Abdullah’s mother, she was a British Christian, as you say, but converted to Islam on marriage. She also is said to be of Jewish descent–what part of her heritage is Jewish I do not know. A few years back she was still living in Jordan. Like the other royals of Jordan, she wears stylish Western clothes and had a Western education. Queen Rania has been reported to be of Palestinian descent.
So King Abdullah is a descendant of Mohammed on his father’s side, and his father’s relatives have ruled Iraq in the past, before overthrow; it is rumored he’s like to be king in Iraq again. His mother was a part Jewish
woman from Britain, King Hussein’s first wife. Hussein had four wives, the 3rd of whom was killed in an airplane accident, before he married his fourth wife, Queen Nur.
Abdullah has a few relatives who also have strong “ruling” potential, including his uncle and his cousin. His uncle was expected to rule Jordan, but this was transferred to Abdullah shortly before King Hussein died.
Peace!
Many of the prophesies concerning Edom may have already fullfilled. It may be that people living in Jordan nowadays is not the same people or nation than those people living in the past days Edom.
In the new testament Jesus says to his diciples when they ask: Where.
Where the vultures are gathering over the corpse. In Jeremiah or Isaiah this gathering of vultures is in association with last days Edom.
But before that comes many false prophets, Messiahs, Christs and the sign of the son of man will be seen, oceans rage and there are signs in the sun, moon and stars. And the Great Tribulation has already occured.
OT is not so hope giving than NT. In the NT there is a Saviour.
Peace!
Well, you based this piece of narration on your “holy books”. For > 1 billion Muslims around the world, your “holy books” have no foundation, simply because they were re-written by man. Nothing – we believe- was written by your God.
Let me tell you what we believe in, and what we believe came from God as a prediction of the end of Israel.
The first 7 “ayat” of Al Essra verse in Kuran (#17) predicts the end of Israel by a group of faithful men who will destroy whatever temples Israelis had built, and Jews will run for their lives and hide behind rocks and tress. Rocks and trees will call upon the faithful men telling them that a Jew is hiding behind us! The only trees that doesn’t divulge this is a tree that we call “Al Gharghad”. Please start growing this more and more!
Please don’t be angry with this. In the same way you are convinced what you said about Jordan will happen, we FIRMLY believe what i just said will take place!
dear Ayman
I understand our beliefs are different.
But even Islam recognizes the old testament and the gospels.
The prophet Daniel predicted that Israel would go through a horrible time of trouble, and it would be as you say, but the Lord would rescue them from the evil that wishes them harm.
Many of them will have to hide, since civilians are not able to protect themselves. God will provide a place of safety for them.
The God of heaven is not trying to destroy anyone who believes in Him, but is trying to redeem them from their own human errors and sins.
Marianne, Islam does not recognize the Biblke in fact. Islam has taken it upon themselves to re-write the scriptures just as they re-write the histories of different countries including Israel. Islam only recognizes the prophets of the Bible as their own and have done the unpardonable sin of re-writing scripture. Whoever adds one jot or tittle or takes away one jot or tittle from the scriptures shall have their name taken out of the book of life. This is almost the last words of the last chapter in Revelation.
Islam claims to accept some scriptures. That is the claim, so I used it.
Thats ok Marianne, I just know that the Islamic claim is that the Jews wrote the scriptures wrong and that it was the job of the muslims to re-write them. They have and their stories are absurd unfortunately, but, then they also claim the Patriarchs tombs are not Jewish but Islamic. It is all the same story to them. Just commenting and bringing in points of interest.
They have altered most stories in scripture beyond recognition. Islam says The Qur’an is the last, complete, authoritative and authentic revelation. It is the final arbiter and the only criterion to correct any inaccuracy or misinterpretation which might have occurred in the transmission of scriptures. So say muslims and …
The Torah (Tawrah in Arabic) revealed to the Prophet Moses (different from the Old Testament read today).
The Gospel (Injeel in Arabic) revealed to Prophet Jesus (different from the New Testament read in churches today).
Actually this is just one sight of many that explains to muslims why they have the right to change scriptures because islam the quran is the final authority and because they say all scripture of Jews and Christians is not right. The whole thing is absurd but muslims believe they can slaughter kill rape revise rewrite anything and anyone they please.
http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/36/
just out of curiosity…I read them long ago…
Actually Ayman march 23, the only ones running and hiding behind rocks will be the Arab Nations who come up against Israel together, Ezekiel 38 and 39… and the evil thought of Israels’ destruction you just mentioned is the same one that is responsible for the destruction of all but one sixth of Islam. For you and your false prophet pedophiles concoction of this lie you all in fact shall be running yourselves to hide for the anger of the Lord shall indeed come up in His face and He shall judge the terrible 1400 years of Islamic slaughter, pillaging and rape on the earth by Islam in laying His sword against all the Islamic nation. Those who live by the sword shall die by the sword. Repentance of these evil deeds and hatred to your neighbors and brethran is said to be the remedy for such a demise.
..And Ayman all the belief in earth will not make what your false prophet and demi-god wants to happen to Jews and isn’t that nice to know. There is not anger here, just pity because your eyes are so blinded to truth and righteousness. Islam is a vile history of the degradation of man to following the absurd on a whim. It is most pitiful that hundreds of millions follow an ancient god of India and throw stones at a stone once worshipped by another demi-god and marry little girls and beat and kill women at your discretion while slaughtering the world of unbelievers seeking 72 virgins as a reward for your vile deeds. This does not take faith or intelligence to commit the terrible 1400 years of slaughter you have done; it takes willfully blind ignorance and hatred to do such evil.
Who is the leader of the Muslim Brotherhood?
Is their any person’s name approximately equal to ‘MABUS’ of Nortradamus predictions?
or is their any person in China or in Russia like that name? (Hitler=Hister, Neapolean=——-)
666 ?
Perhaps Abu MUSAB al Zaquari. But he is dead?
“Jordan has had a peaceful history with Israel since 1948, after its defeat in the War of Independence.”
Well no I beg to differ since it was Egypt, Syria, Transjordan (later Jordan), Lebanon, Iraq and Saudi Arabia who fought in 1948, 1956, 1967, I would hardly say Jordan has a peaceful history with Israel. The Jews driven out of the old city and Jerusalem divided in half by the Jordanians who used the jewish headstones for their latrines and Jordan joined with Egypt in the six day war thinking the boast of Egypt to wipe Israel off the map had already occurred, thus restoring and re-uniting ancient Jerusalem as scripture said would happen. Jordan was a founding member of the Arab League in 1945 who are committed to have: NO PEACE with Israel, NO NEGOTIATIONS with Israel, NO RECOGNITION of Israel…. When Jordanian Islamists bombed the Israeli diplomatic convoy in Jordan one could not help but wonder that the growth of Jordanian Islamist forces is merely leading to the winter of discontent that the entire Islamic world has fallen into and their hatred of Israel Is the hook that leads them now to their own judgement and destruction that Ezekiel describes.
Hi Marie jean
You are right. I corrected the post.
Marianne, I was just commenting that is all. I like your posts. I like your blog here. You make people think. It is good to make people think outside of their boxes and doctrines.
A long time ago there was this Hebrew Prophet that was given the courage to stand up against over a hundred of the Kings prophets, soothsayers, sorcerer’s and wise men and answer the God of powers and real life before men’s eyes with a pile of sticks. It would seem to me that today’s people and its Kings see Israel and her now Islamic nation neighbors, Jerusalem and Damascus specifically as the “Wood” pile. Those who gather round and chant “death to Israel” with their gods and their prophets in one camp and a little old leather back book from grandma’s closet in the other corner. I.6 billion people are betting against some old prophets words concerning them spoken thousands of years ago then carried by Jews before being the torch of the gentile Christians and finally treasured by grandma to be echoed from the grave to her descendants today. The world can soak Damascus with water and drench Israel with oil but yet will I stand and bet my life with grandmas soul and the True God of Heaven and earth rain fire from above as a witness to all the people and let us see what pile of sticks remains.
Israel will remain and will reclaim all its’ former lands and Islam is going down.
well said Ed!
I’ve always wanted to say that to someone named Fred, but Ed will do.!
I’m with grandma!
I wish God would just spoon feed me at times on the prophecies in the Bible from the ones which have already been filled from the ones which haven’t.:) I know it sounds lazy but it’s hard to get my head around certain bits.
Jdb
Get yourself a couple of Bible commentaries, and compare them, and then ask that the Holy spirit guide you to understanding. One clue that I have found helpful is to look for references to storms, hailstones, and thunder, as these are probably references to the end times, and the appearence of Jesus, “The day of the Lord”.
“Have You seen the storehouses of the hail, which I have reserved for the time of trouble, for the day of battle and war?” Job 38:22-23 This is the oldest book of the bible, and foretells of the hailstones of the final days.
Throughout the prophecies you will find these references to tempests, lightning, and thunder and hailstones, You can most often then associate these prophecies to the “day of the Lord”. You will also find these throughout revalation, as the seals are completed, the trumpets,etc.
That being said, A prophecy that does not culminate in this Maelstrom, is before the day of the Lord. When this occurs, or has occured takes alot of research. I am not saying that I have the whole thing figured out, As I am sure God threw a few curveballs to throw off his “adversaries”. As for the Psalm 83 war, this cannot refer to either the 67, or 73 wars, as egypt was involved in both of them, so that is why I place this in the future, and there is no reference to the Day of the Lord, so it is not that far in the future as the Battle of armageddon spoken of in Ezekial 38. Note how verses 22-23 refer to hailstones, etc, placing this at the end of tribulation.
I hope this helps.
Upon this rock [(petra) NOT PETER BTW] I shall build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. it’s hidden in plain view, and a Hebrew pun so to speak. So I ask why NOT petra
Rudy, here’s why: Petra is a deep pit that would hold only about 1,000 people. In this era of modern weapons, one bomb could destroy everyone in it before they could climb out. Gavin Finley at End Time Pilgrim has an excellent article on it at endtimepilgrim.org/bozflight.htm. The part describing Petra starts about halfway down the page.
Christ is the rock, the same rock that dissembles the statue of Daniel which is made up of all the Islamic nations today and the UN, EU who came out of Rome. It is a Papal falicy that Peter is the rock. How absurd. Even the statue in Rome is not Peter but the statue of Jupiter taken out of the Temple Hadrian built in Jerusalem of Jupiter to Diana for his wife and torn down by the Muslims to build the Dome of the Rock and Al Aqusa Abominations of desolation today.
Spot on marie jean, could not have said it better myself.
Thanks Johan.
Thanks dru,
Job 38:22-23 = Ezekial 38: 22
gog ? = 3rd Anti-Christ(Dajjal)= Nortradamus ‘mabus’ =’666′
Sunimal,
Agreed on your first equation.
I am still trying to figure out all the players in your second equation, so as to agree or disagree, and I am not that familiar with Nostradamus’ writings.
Remember in revelation, we have the more than one player, the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet, as well as a false religion (woman riding the beast),and Babylon the great, and they are all different. The Only ones that I think I have narrowed down is that the dragon is the Islamic Mahdi, and the woman riding the beast is the Catholic church combined with many of the protestent churches, or the catholic and orthodox church combined. The false prophet could be a pope, a protestent or orthodox bishop, Hindu Guru, Dalai Lama, or some combination thereof. Gog = the Antichrist/ beast, but I do not think the dajjal is the one in the same. I see the dajjal as a bit player, giving credence to the dragons claims, and someone who appears Ac like but is not. Nothing unifies a religion like a holy war, Islam is no different.
This is all theoretical of course.
I suggest the dragon is satan, the false prophet is pedophile Muhammed responsible for the hatred throughout the middle east and countries of the bible toward women and the beast is Islam upon whom rides the western whore the UN and all countries come out of the Papal whore and the fact that none may live in Islamic countries unless they are given over to the beast marked by Islam as MUslim of dhimmis or slaves or dead. The abomination of desolation set up on the Holy of Holies today should leave no bible believing Christian with any doubt as to who the beast is though the fact that it does is a shock to the senses. The day of Jacobs trouble in Jeremiah about the scattering of Israel to the four corners of the earth that Christians still look for is followed in Jeremiah by the regathering of Jews to Israel to never be scattered again so what we see gathered now will not be removed again. If only Christians wouldn’t take scriptures out of context and remember that the scrolls were written without chapters they would have read on that Israel was regathered as in our day to be blessed and what followed is the judgement upon the gentiles. Evem the few tribulations spoken of in the New Testament are spoken of, if people would only read, to Christians or of Christians.
Marie Jean,
I agree that the dragon is satan, who is the demon that will inhabit the Mahdi of Islam. I also agree that the dome of the rock is the abomination of desolation that is set up (the building), but there is also an act called the abomination of desolation that is done there. If you look at the two places in Daniel where the abomination is spoken of you will see the subtle linguistic differences therein. Interestingly, there are exactly 1260 years from the time the dome of the Rock was started, till 1948, when Israel became a nation, and also 1290 years from the time the Ark of the covenent was no longer in the temple of solomon, (which was either hidden, or looted by the babylonians 11-12 years prior to the exile.) to the completion of the dome of the rock. Shortly before 1948, Israel was attacked by the armies of Satan, and a majority of Jews were wiped out, by hitler and stalin, not to mention the persecution in the muslim world. If this is what revalation 12 is refering to, that means the dragon was wroth with Israel and has begun his war on those who hold to the testimony of Jesus, Christians. Ask any Christian in Islamic countries, and you will see that this is a reality. But Just as satan used hitler and stalin to kill the jews, so too will he use another world leader to accomplish his attacks on Christians, the Antichrist. Satan, the dragon himself will give his power to that beast.
In other words, the Bible has two timelines of prophecy, one for the Jews, and one for the Christians. In revelation, they are woven together into God’s timeline. I agree that their is a naivete of putting all the prophecies in revelation as happening in a seven year period at some time in the future, but there is also an extreme of saying that most of the events have occurred already, and we are just waiting for the Lord to arrive. I personally believe that we are at the time of the fourth seal, that being the islamic uprisings and eventual unification under the Mahdi/Caliphate. The first seal having occurred hundreds of years ago. That being said, I do believe that there is a seven year period of tribulation and wrath to come, at which time all the promises and prophecies given Israel and Christians will be fulfilled, with the Messiah’s second coming as King.
Conclusion, Jacobs trouble =7 “years” in days, 1260+1290, And Christians will face seven years of tribulation and wrath, though we will not witness the wrath of God on the wicked. So when John wrote revelation in 90 ad, or whenever it was, the four seals were future events, Now for us reading the book, some of these events have passed. The seals are the “Long clock” of the prophecy, which leads to the day of the Lord, while the trumpets, vials etc, are the more detailed description of the events in the final seven year period. Much Like an author writing a war novel would explain the events that led to the war in the first place. Think of the war itself as that final seven years.
I asked alienated to do a word study sometime back on the word “Hedge” in Job, compared to the root of the greek word seals in revelation. I have not heard from him since on this, so I think he may not have liked the results?? LOL. But I think that this will confirm that the seals are happening as we speak, and are apart from the final seven year period, with only the fifth, sixth and seventh seals occuring in that final seven year period. The fifth having begun in certain parts of the world already. This hedge, is what is restraining Satan.
I hope that answers some of your questions, and God bless.
Thank you Dru for your response. I do contend the one week of seven years only because when you take the return of the Jews unto the Messiah the 62 and 7 are 69 and after the 62 Christ was cut off or died however we want to put it, but the remaining one week is cut in half when the agreements with Rome were stopped if you will when Titus destroyed the Temple and the sacrifices were stopped once and for all and the last half of the 7 days were left to continue sometime in our day. Some say that time of prophecy began when Jerusalem was reunited in 1967 6 day war or 1948. 1967 may be the continuing of the 3 1/2 days or it may continue when the Abomination is destroyed at the splitting of the Mount of Olives. That I won’t contend. I understand too little of Jewish understanding but it is to Israel that I look. The carcass is where the enemy is.
Now the understanding of these days of years etc I would only take from Hebrew scripture and Hebrew understanding because the translations have taken away from the real knowledge through doctrines and purposeful Papal translation without transcription or transilliteration concerned to our day. Unfortunately in this case I am presently studying to understand the real Hebrew texts meanings and would not dream on going further without this wisdom.
Presently I have found a site attempting to do what I am but I am not enough into it to have gained enough understanding but it is a good start.
http://daniel70wks.faithweb.com/cover_page_daniel_seventy_weeks.htm
Appreciate your comments though dru though I might not agree on some I appreciate the whole.
Marie Jean,
No problem, I am by no means an expert, and if I waited to speak until I had wisdom on a topic, I would not speak at all. But I have learned to trust the spirit and let him speak through me. In those cases, it is when the “I” gets out of the way that truth is spoken.
God bless.
Marie Jean,
I just went and checked out the website you posted, though I agree that the 490 years of that prophecy in Daniel are often misinterpreted, I disagree with the conclusions that Jesus is not God in the form of a human. (If this is not his conclusion, then forgive me, as I did not take the time to read all of it.) This doctrine was not introduced in the council of Nicea, and it was a known doctrine of the early church, right from the beginning. I do not want to argue this point as I have done this many times before, But the book of John is pretty clear about this. If you read any of the writings of even the early church fathers, you will see that this doctrine was passed down to them by the apostles themselves in some cases.
Jesus was “annointed” as King of the Jews, having come as the suffering servent, similar to how David was annointed and then suffered at the behest of Saul. He will return shortly as King, Just as David returned as King, and Just like David, Who showed mercy toward the remnant of Sauls family, so too will Christ show mercy on the remnant of Israel whose forefathers caused his sufferring. The Parallels are astonishing. Jesus at his first coming was called the “Son” of God, as the annointing takes place when the future king is a child. When he comes again he will come in all his glory, no longer as an annointed son, but as an appointed and ruling King, and as God. Hermaneutics cannot disprove this connection, which the Spirit of truth confirms
I have found a lot of these websites these days, that through intense hermeneutical studies, have shed doubt on the tranlations of the biblical text. But it is the Spirit of truth that discerns truth, not hermeneutics. As much as I enjoy hermeneutics, you can easily get bogged down in the study of them. The entirety of scripture points to Jesus, and sometimes you cannot prove that through hermeneutics. Just as the Kingship of David points to Jesus’ first and second comings, as annointed prince, and as king. So even though the KJV translators may have put “Messiah” where there should have been “annointed” does not take away from the fact that Jesus is the Messiah, promised to Israel, Just as David was the King even when Saul was the one on the throne.
What irks me the most, is that because the “pagan” church, The catholic church, still holds to the doctrine of the trinity, that this automatically negates this doctrine. (I say “pagan” here not to criticize the church, but because it assimilated many pagan beliefs into its church, not that those who are catholics are pagans.) The divinity of Christ is no pagan doctrine. And the early catholic church, though unwise in assimilating these pagan ideologies, was wise in holding to the testimony of Jesus, and reaffirming it in the council of Nicea, with the Nicene creed, thereby making this church dogma. And I am thankful for that. (That is really hard to say for a baptist!)
This doctrine is the heart of the Gospel. That God, not just part of God, came down in human form, and died to redeem his creation. There is no greater love than this. (emphasis on the period)
That being said, satan would love nothing more than to undermine this doctrine, as belief therein equates with salvation. Ask yourself, what is the one doctrine that ALL cults and world religions disagree with Christians on? This is it.
God bless, Sorry for the long response.
It’s ok dru I’ve no problem with the speech, I understand the reason and that being said I happen to agree with you I suppose except I don’t consider the coming of Christ the Messiah a doctrine, I never have. I believe He is the reason scripture was written and left for mankind and He was in the beginning and at Creation, His Divinity has no question for me. Discussing other prophecies never dileneates from our Lords Salvation, Divinity and Kingship as the Son of the LIving God. I’ve been sunk to Him since I was born and would walk with no other on this earth except the Blessed Holy Spirit and Father whom I cannot understand how any on earth can exist without their Prescence daily in their lives. I love them and would not be parted a moment for anything the earth offers. The site I gave you was just one I have been searching among many for the understanding of the time elements and nothing more. When my husband was finishing his second year of his Pastors degree this element of Daniel was a paper he had done and we went through a lot of research but found little real meat in the doctrines of the church other than what the english translations really offer which is not much of the actual Hebrew understanding. It is only a matter of interest in the truth.
I do not need doctrines to prove the divinity of Christ when I have Him dwelling in my life and Living in the scriptures. Doctrines are just extra baggage of mostly Churchianity which is good only to study so you learn from others as well as understanding what has and is going on in the earth that is in the scriptures.
Amen to that.
Doctrines, are for the children of the faith, till they learn to overcome the evil one. (1 John 2:12-14) Some churches like to keep their sheep as children, and never let them grow, and go.
God bless. Thanks for putting up with my longwinded off the topic spiel. I echo your experiences with the prescence of God in my life.
I tend to believe that all but the 5th and 6th seal have happened as well…and from my dream the Lord gave me we are in the final 7 years. they have started. The pouring out of his spirit in the last days has started. I pray that all listen. We are in the final 7 years. I believe the obomination of desolation that happens mid point will have something to do with the dome of the rock as well…
The dome of the rock and al aqsa mosque is the abomination of desolation I think Deb and I suspect, suspect these are the final years and we have not seen as alienated said the sun become sackcloth and moon blood red yet.
I’m not sure how to express this, but on my way to Iraq in 2008, I had to stop over one night in Ammon Jordan. My driver to my hotel in Ammon and back to the airport the next day was a Jordanian citizen. He was telling me the entire way (45 min each way) how the Jews were the scourge of the earth and everything bad going on was because of them. I listened and didn’t say a word, as I didn’t want to end up short of my destination, but I don’t think there is any love lost between Jordan and Israel. Just my thoughts. Oh, his final words to me were, when you get to Iraq, NEVER TRUST AN ARAB. NEVER! That seemed to worry me more than anything else he said to me.
I have been praying for ever so long for this farmer in Nova Scotia to be returned from Lebanon on what appears to have been an absurd and trumped up charge on rotten seed potatoes sent to algeria by farmers in Quebec and PEI. Algeria sent requests for personal assets and personal info from RCMP who gladly obliged Algiers who later put out a warrant with Interpol for the farmer Tepper who was held in Lebanon for a year. He didn’t even send the potatoes which were not from his province of Nova Scotia, but the Arabs were probably hoping for some financial assets to be sent over for his release which never arrived.
Long and short is I would never go to an Islamic country or trust an Arab or any Muslim. End of story. Just read the Qu’ran, Hadiths and Surah and it will cure anyone of any latent politically correct left love affair with Islam. There is no room for peace or love or truth or trust anywhere in their volumes of hate.
JRA you expressed it quite well. Islamic countries have been exposed to the gospel longer than most countries on earth since all they stole were once Byzantine and the first exposure to Judaiism and early Christianity so they have less excuse for their hatred and destruction of both in all their lands. They are the Beast that takes their dictates from the Dragon Satan so their hatred seems to be in their minds and hearts and hands where ever they speak. Those that come out of Islam say it is so. Just listen to Walid Shoebat and others like him who are drawn out of Babylon. They know what is the heart of Islam.
hi JRA
That is indeed a strange comment coming from what I thought would be an Arab himself.
Jordan’s ruler turning against ISrael – as predicted!
http://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Jordans-King-Abdullah-We-will-prevent-Israeli-unilateralism-in-Jerusalem-380543