Jesus and His relationship with the Father God

Who Jesus is, and who God is, has been a source of conflict for 2000 years, between Christians, Jews and Muslims. Instead of going by what some theology says, and trying to make scriptures fit into that theology, what does the Bible say? What did Jesus say?

First, some Definitionsthese may seem “dry” but there is a lot of theological misunderstandings over definitions.

Oneness- this can mean different things. What is important is what God means when He says something. So, also, what did Jesus mean when he said He was “one” with the Father?

1. Oneness is a spiritual term referring to the ‘experience’ of the absence of egocentric identity boundaries, and, according to some traditions, the realization of the awareness of the absolute interconnectedness of all matter and thought in space-time, or one’s ultimate identity with God…

2. Oneness the unification of consciousness with the sub consciousness to yield a supra consciousness.

3. unity of thought and reality.

4. the characteristic of being one person

“Godhead” – no such word in Greek. What did Paul mean? Is there a multiplicity of persons in one God? First, what words did Paul use?

The New Testament (NT) that we use is written in Greek. Is there such a concept of a Godhead in Greek that there is a word for it? The NT mentions “Godhead” 3x, but each time a different Greek word is used.

1. There is no Greek word that means Godhead. There is no Greek word that indicates a group of individuals are all united as the same god. If they wish to indicate more than one entity, they just use the plural, gods, or divinities

2. The original word was not Godhead, which has come to mean 3 equal persons who are all God. The original word was Godhood, which is God + the suffix –hood.

-hood” is an English suffix that means a “state or condition of a group sharing a certain characteristic. The definition does NOT imply that all members of a group are “equal,” or that they share ALL characteristics, making them identical.

3. So Godhood actually means a group sharing certain [does not mean all] characteristics of God. Divinity.

It can mean

divinity as an entity

divine force or power

divinity applied to mortals – the divine potential of humankind.

4.    3 translations for “Godhead”

a. Act 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead [adjective = divine] is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man’s device.

θεος theios G2304 translated “divine” in two other passages (2 Pet 1:3-4). The translator turned this adjective into a proper noun, which is wrong.

b. Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead [feminine noun = divinity]; so that they are without excuse:

θειτης G2305 Theiotēs = divinity, divine nature

no other passages with this term.

c. Col 2:9 For in him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead [feminine noun = deity, state of being God, God’s representative] bodily.

G2320 θετης theotēs feminine noun


a) the state of being God

b) G2320 is from G2316 θες of uncertain affinity; a deity, especially (with G3588) the supreme Divinity

1) a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities

2) spoken of the only and true God

a) refers to the things of God

b) his counsels, interests, things due to him

3) whatever can in any respect be likened unto God, or resemble him in any way (Jesus said he was the “image’ of his Father.)

a) God’s representative or vice regent

1) of magistrates and judges

Divine – can someone be divine and not be God Himself? The answer is yes.

What does divine mean?

1. a. Having the nature of, OR being a deity.

b. Of, relating to, emanating from, or being the expression of a deity

c. Being in the service or worship of a deity; sacred.

2. Superhuman; godlike.

3. a. Supremely good or beautiful; magnificent

b. Extremely pleasant; delightful

4. Heavenly; perfect.

5. Of, or belonging to God

6. proceeding from God

Lord – someone who “owns” us – we are his possession. Also a king and husband.

A man of high rank in a feudal society or in one that retains feudal forms and institutions, especially:

a. A king.

b. A territorial magnate.

c. The proprietor of a manor. Landowner, property owner.

d. A man of renowned power or authority.

e. A man who has mastery in a given field or activity.

f. Archaic -The male head of a household.

g. Archaic- A husband. – A Hebrew custom for a wife to call her husband Lord.

The scriptures that describe Jesus and His relationship with His Father God–

Look for the obvious patterns – let us keep things simple…….God is not the author of confusion.  The relationship is well described.   It is NOT a “mystery.”

Are God and Jesus the same person?

Are they equal?

Who does Jesus say He is?

Who is God?

Mat 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice [God’s] out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

*** The speaker is God. He is calling Jesus his son. There are 2 persons here.

Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life

*** If there is a father, and he has a son, there are 2 people.

Jhn 3:35 The Father loves the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

Jhn 4:34 Jesus said unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish His work.

****Jesus is obedient and subservient to God.

Jhn 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

***Jesus has no power on His own. He submits to the Father, who has the power.

Jhn 6:32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven.

Jhn 6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

***God -the Father- is the sender of the bread from heaven. Jesus is the bread.

Jhn 6:38 [Jesus speaking] For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

Jhn 6:39 And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

***Jesus is sent by the Father in heaven. The one who sends is greater than the one sent. So they are NOT equal.

Jhn 8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God [the Father]; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

*** God is the Father. Jesus is sent by God the Father.

Jhn 10:36 [Jesus speaking] Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemed; because I said, I am the Son of God?

*** Jesus is saying He is divine, because God is His Father. However, He is NOT saying that He IS God. Jesus is divine, because His Father is divine, just like you are human because your father is human. However, Jesus is NOT his Father, who is God. There is only one God.

Jhn 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
Jhn 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

*** Jesus gets His words from his Father

Jhn 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make OUR abode with him.

*** Jesus and the Father are two different people. They are not the same person.

Jhn 17:1 These words spoke Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

Jhn 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

Jhn 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee [Father] the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

*** The only true God is the Father. Jesus is just who God sent.

Jhn 20:17 Jesus said unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your God.

*** The “Father” is the God of Jesus.

Rom 1:3 Concerning his [God’s] Son, Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh

*** “Lord” is a title which means owner. We belong to Jesus, if he is our Lord. And Jesus is God’s son.

Rom 1:4 And declared [to be] the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead

Rom 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called [to be] saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

*** It does not say “Jesus, our God.” It only says Jesus is Lord. He is Lord because He is God’s Son.

1Cr 8:6 But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.

*** Jesus can be Lord without being God. It does not say, “there is but one God, who is the Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.”

2Cr 1:2 Grace [be] to you and peace from God our Father, and [from] the Lord Jesus Christ

***God is the Father, the Lord is Jesus

2Cr 1:3 Blessed [be] God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;

*** It does NOT say “the God, Jesus Christ.”

Gal 1:3 Grace [be] to you and peace from God the Father, and [from] our Lord Jesus Christ

***God is the Father, the Lord is Jesus

Eph 6:23 Peace [be] to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ

***God is the Father, the Lord is Jesus

Eph 1:3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ

***God is the Father, the Lord is Jesus

Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him

***God is the Father, the Lord is Jesus

Eph 3:9 And to make all [men] see what [is] the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ

Eph 3:14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all

*** The Father is God.

Phl 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God

Phl 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men

Phl 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross

Phl 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name

**** Jesus is the image of God, and He is divine, but he set this aside to obey His Father God. He was in a “lower” position to begin with, and God exalted him. So he was not originally “equal” with God, if he had to be exalted. God is already exalted.

Phl 2:11 And [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father

***God is the Father, the Lord is Jesus

Col 1:3 We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you

***God is the Father, the Lord is Jesus

Col 1:15 Who [Jesus] is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature

*** Jesus is the image of God, as he reflects God’s glory to man.

Col 2:2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ

***God is the Father, the Lord is Jesus

Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sits on the right hand of God

***There are 2 seats, not one, Jesus sits on the right side of God in heaven.

This means they are not the same person.

1Th 3:11 Now God himself and our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way unto you

***God is the Father, the Lord is Jesus

2Th 2:16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given [us] everlasting consolation and good hope through grace

***God is the Father, the Lord is Jesus

1Ti 2:5 For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus

***God is the Father, the Lord is Jesus

Hbr 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spoke in time past unto the fathers by the prophets

Hbr 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds

Hbr 1:3 Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high

Hbr 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they

Hbr 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

**** The Son was “made” better than the angels, as the image of the Father. Once he did the work of purging us of our sins, THEN he sat on the right hand of the Father. That means he did not have that exalted position BEFORE he came to earth and sacrificed Himself.

1Pe 1:3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead

***God is the Father, the Lord is Jesus

2Pe 1:17 For he received from God the Father honor and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased

***God is the Father, the Lord is Jesus

Rev 2:26 And he that overcomes, and keeps my works unto the end, to him will I [Jesus] give power over the nations:
Rev 2:27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

**** Jesus received the power from the Father and then will give it to us. They are not equal in power.

Rev 5:1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals

Rev 5:5 And one of the elders said unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof

*** God is the one on the throne who has the book of seals. The lion of Judah (Jesus) is qualified to open the book. Jesus does not sit on the throne. Only God sits there.


According to the Bible, only the Father is God. Jesus is His spirit Son, who was made higher than the angels, and shares, as a true Son, in the divine nature of his Father God, who is the God of Jesus. This is the same as any human son, would share in the same humanity as his own father. As his son, Jesus possesses his Father’s divine essence, and power. Jesus reflects the image of a great multifaceted Father God, who is much greater than he is. God is King. Jesus is His prince of peace. This should not be that hard to imagine. God can create and organize his heaven any way he wishes.

God has exalted Jesus now to a higher position, to be at his right hand, because of his great act of self sacrifice.

God is holy. Jesus is also holy. Jesus is the first, sacred, holy, pure possession, and son of His Father, who wishes now to exalt his Son in love to the earth. Jesus was the Father’s first son in spirit. If we repent of our sins, and turn from them, and accept Jesus as God’s son, we can also share in what God has for us, as spiritual sons and daughters of God. If we reject Jesus for who He is, we will break the heart of God, and then this heavenly destiny cannot be ours.

As for guilt, we ALL crucified Him. We ALL have sinned, and need forgiveness. Jesus is the way to this forgiveness.

So, the Jews are right and the Muslims are right. There is only one God. There are not 3 gods. But the Christians are right too, but not in the way they traditionally explain things. People’s eternal destiny depends on how they treat God’s Son, Jesus, Yeshua, and future Messiah of the land of Israel, who will hopefully return soon, to gather his brethren for a time of freedom, deliverance, and peace.

Jesus is therefore divine, as God’s son, but His Father is God. Jesus is Lord of this earth. The Father and Son are not equal.     As Jesus said, the Father is greater than He is.

See also

Jesus as the Son of God Click here for more

Jesus – Before and after Earth Click here for more

Why did Jesus have to die? Click here for more

Why Jews reject Jesus…unfulfilled prophecies Click here for more

98 Responses to “Jesus and His relationship with the Father God”

  1. […] here for […]

    • oh you clergy men… how can you understand the Bible using this world’s teaching who claims to be great and wise.Rev.3; I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. 17Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:……

  2. Hi there.
    Thanks for great info and website. I was wondering if then you are saying the God is not the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, but are three different persons? Father God and Jesus are not one?
    So why are some churches teaching this then? What does it mean in book of John when he tells the Pharisees and people in the city that “Before Abraham, I AM?” as you know I AM is God in the Hebrew Scriptures, Old Testament. Which is right? This is what discouraging about organized religions, Its Gods way and laws we should follow and believe. ITs when religions, religious leaders, people that confues His Word? Just concern and wondering. Thanks.

  3. Hi R

    Well, I have always been taught the same thing, but it never made any sense…to say there is only one god but then 3 people have the job. Jesus was Jewish, so he cannot break his own laws. Paul says there is only ONE GOD, and then the LORD Jesus christ…like they are separate. Jesus prayed to “his GOD” who was the Father.

    TO me, there must be more of a hierarchy in heaven than what we thought. people do not put enough thought into this so they generally just accept what they don’t understand as a “mystery” so they don’t have to deal with it. …

    SO I decided to deal with it. Jews and Muslims criticize the Christians for believing in 3 gods, so we owe them a better explanation. How can we be witnesses to something we do not understand?

    Well, from what the bible actually says, only the Father is officially GOD. Jesus and the holy spirit share many divine qualities, power and virtues of the Father, so they can represent the Father on earth as God. They are higher than the angels in authority, but are lower than the Father. Since Jesus died for us, he also has been exalted to an even higher position to be at the Father’s right hand.

    Both Jesus and the holy spirit existed in heaven before they came to earth…so the comment…. about abraham and “I AM” is consistent with this. Also, if you go back to the burning bush, you will see that “GOD” was in the bush, but there was also an “angel of the Lord” present. I feel like that was Jesus accompanying his father to visit Moses. EXD 3:2
    It seems a little confusing. But why would God have an angel there to talk to Moses? It seemed like sometimes it was “the Lord” speaking and sometimes it was “GOD” speaking, like they were 2 different people there with Moses..

    All this is just something to think about. What do you think?


  4. amen. and when God refers to Jesus as “God” in the book of hebrews, this illustrates just how God has exalted Jesus, as you mentioned.

    there is also scripture that says that all things are under Jesus Christ, then Christ himself is under God, so that God may be “all in all”. if Jesus IS God, then how can He put Himself under Himself?

    3 persons in one God is certainly a “mystery”, but as you say… if we look to the scriptures, there is no mystery.

    • “if we look to the scriptures there is no mystery…” Are you serious?

      The Bible is full of mysteries…glorious ones…and a lot of very, very clear stuff too. Just look up “mystery” in your Bible concordance! The Bible itself claims to include mystery.

  5. p.s. scripture also tells us that Jesus was (the only) “begotten” son of God. clearly there is hierarchy as you say.

    and the old testament kings, prophets, and priests who possessed the Holy Spirit were AWARE of Lord Jesus… David said, “my LORD said unto my Lord”…

  6. Dear Paul

    I thank the Holy Spirit for making this clear to us, as it enables us to explain the “mystery” of God to others, in these last days, with confidence.


  7. Marianne, I replied to another post with the assertion that we must use scripture to understand scripture. It is helpful, however, to understand the language of the day rather than trying to make scripture fit our definitions. I thank you for that. The Hebrew mind had no problem with what we stumble over because their whole culture revolved around an understanding of God. The first mention of God in Genesis 1:1 uses the Hebrew word “Elohim”. Elohim, as I’m sure you know, is the plural (-im pluralizes words in hebrew) of the word “EL”. While scholars differ, “EL” is generally agreed to mean “majesty”, thus “Elohim” is a plural of majesty. Here is where it becomes interesting, this plural masculine name has a singular masculine modifier in every instance where it is used in scripture to refer to God. It is the equivalent of saying “They is”. I heard an analogy that the Godhead is like a team- multiple persons, one identity. I think that even this falls short of the understanding you make here. To my knowledge, the only word that comes close to the plural masculine with a singular masculine modifier is the word “Headquarters”. A headquarters is understood to have different offices, who may or may not operate in different capacities for different purposes but all with one unified objective. God is transcendent, the Godhead-indeed a mystery and even the best of us will fall short of conceptualizing it in its Glory. You, however, have done more than anyone I’ve come across. Thank you so much for your scholarship and spirit.

  8. Hi Amardo,

    Yes, oneness can be an allusive concept. We all could have part of the truth, and be right in some way. I think Jesus left this point a little vague on purpose. He wanted us to think about it.

    I am working on another post on the same concept, but from a different angle. Maybe the perspective there will also be true to some extent.


  9. Too often a single verse is taken here or there without looking at the context. ie who was speaking, to whom and when. To intellectually attempt to give interpretations without further scriptural back-up is to make a god (small g) to suit oneself.

    All Marianne’s verse quotes point to the Trinity if you apply context. Funny how 1 Jn 5v7 is not mentioned or the baptism of Jesus when all 3 personalities are rpesent at the same time.

    Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

  10. Hi Derek,

    Like I noted on the other post, I acknowledge the Father Son, and Holy spirit. They are all divine. I think much of this is terminology. In the old testament, only the Father made Himself known as “GOD.” So, in the new testament this “title” still seemed reserved for just the Father, because that is all people were used to. The awareness of the Son did not occur until his appearance, and the concept of the holy spirit was not there until Pentecost.

    So the title “GOD” had been assigned to the Father only, and even Jesus instructed his followers to pray to the Father, not him. He humbly continued this tradition of exalting the Father. This, however, did not mean he was any less divine for doing this. If he is his Father’s son, then he is made of the same “stuff” his father is. he is therefore divine also.

    I wonder if this terminology is any more clear yet.


  11. Hi Derek,
    When Jesus was tempted by Satan, you no doubt are aware as to how
    Jesus had to prepare for this by fasting to the point of extreme hunger and praying continually for strength and courage, because
    he knew of the enormity of the task he was about to face.
    So, for this to be a genuine test, i.e where there are two possible outcomes (in this case) it must have been possible for
    Jesus to have failed this test. If this were not the case then
    this could not be considered to be a test, trial,temptation, etc
    by any definition.
    If by trinitarian definition, Jesus was God in
    the flesh and Jesus failed the test, then God would have had to
    relinquish His Sovereignty to Satan…Correct……
    For anybody to say that Jesus would never have failed the test,
    will have to explain why Jesus was rewarded a higher position
    in heaven for succeeding. Now we have a big problem! If the Father
    and the Son were once equal, we now have incongruity, because the
    Son is now greater than the Father because the Son is now greater
    than he used to be. So now the Son tells the Father what to do like getting people to pray to Jesus(the Son) when Jesus(the Son)
    COMMANDED that we are to pray to the Father through him. Just one
    final point. Where in creation , human, animal or plant are the
    offspring equal to the parent. If you say that The Son is not the
    offspring then why is he called The Son. Why do we use the term son ? Because God gave us this word for no other purpose than to
    DISTINGUISH SENIORITY. That is why The Son CAN NEVER be The Father

  12. Hi Marianne,

    If Christians people obeyed the Commandments Of God and remembered The Holy Sabbath as commanded by The Father, then The Son, Lord of The Sabbath would teach them and He would reveal The Father God, to them.

    Now I understand why there can be no punctuation when speaking or writing about God.

    Only through revelation can The Holy be known!

  13. The Secret of Sabbath:
She is Sabbath!
United in the secret of One
to draw down upon Her the secret of One.
    The prayer for the entrance of Sabbath:
The holy Throne of Glory is united in the secret of One,
prepared for the High Holy King to rest upon Her.
When Sabbath enters She is alone,
separated from the Other Side,
all judgments removed from Her.
Basking in the oneness of holy light,
She is crowned over and over to face the Holy King.
All powers of wrath and masters of judgment flee from Her.
There is no power in all the worlds aside from Her.
Her face shines with a light from beyond;
She is crowned below by the holy people,
and all of them are crowned with new souls.
Then the beginning of prayer
to bless Her with joy and beaming faces:
Barekhu ET YHVH ha-Mevorakh,
”Bless ET YHVH, the Blessed One,”
ET YHVH, blessing Her first.

  14. And having said all of this … I must add the Peter spoke of the rest that we must still enter.
    There is but One Door.
    The Lord of The Sabbath is The Door.

    Yet Christians fail to see this … because they prefer disobedience.

    Sunday is the door to Baal.
    And that is a door that leads to hell.

    Yet so called ‘teachers’ inspired by the evil one
    teaches a doctrine of demons, and yet they pretend to know The Holy.
    They know nothing at all!!
    And they lead to the pit!!

    • And that rest, Abigail, is defined to be Jesus / Yeshua, who now is our Sabbath. We don’t keep a day which is just an icon to be clicked upon, but we have direct access to the Root Directory which is the reality, the truth, not a mere shadow. Jesus is alive and so we are in Him. If we rest in Him, we keep the Sabbath which is Him!

  15. John 20:28 and Thomas answered my LORD and my GOD

    • Hi Ian,

      I know what you are trying to say. This post is looking closely at the words used in quite a few other passages, where it seems to contradict what Thomas said. It indicates that the Father is the God of Jesus, and that Jesus is Lord (of this world), as the Father is Lord of everything. The question is, can you explain this apparent contradiction?

  16. Good question for you, Marianne. What is God’s real name ? And what is Jesus’s real name ? Why do I keep have the feeling that it is not God nor Jesus.. yet one together.. It is like if he is in his son and son in his father.. ?? And I also wonder if you have any knowledge on Sabbath day and how to honor God properly ? Forgive me for asking because I know about 10 commendants from God.. unfortunely, I can never known nor learn what is Sabbath and how to honor properly. :/ Help me out here… please ? 🙂 Thank you.
    Reason I ask for names is because there are way too many gods.. and yes God is only ONE.. but the truth.. too many gods other than him.. so.. God and gods don’t mix well.. so I prefer to call him by his name not to confuse with ” gods ” lol.. I know I sound a bit silly.. but just be on safe side 🙂

    Bless you all. And thank you for patience.


    • hi Tamera

      God’s name as given to Moses is YHVH….some pronounce this Yahweh or Jehovah. The Jews do not pronounce the name, out of reverence.

      Notice there are no vowels in the name. The letter “J” is not found in Hebrew, so Jehavah is definitely the English version,which came from the Greek translation. Yahweh, then, is the closest pronunciation we have.

      Jesus given name on earth was Yashua, which means salvation. Again, Jesus is the English spelling, from the Greek translation.

      The book of Revelation indicates that Jesus has a special name in heaven that is not given to us here. I do not know what that is. We will find out when we meet him again.

      Sabbath is a day of rest. Tradition is to make it also a day of prayer. The original sabbath was on Saturday (from sundown Friday, to sundown Saturday). The roman ruler Constantine changed it to Sunday for the Gentile Christians, which was wrong, but people have been observing Sunday ever since.

      • It is a day of rest …
        for all … for the animals … for the servants …
        which means that you do not make any one else work for you or serve you on that day.

        You do not your own pleasure either … like shopping, because that would entail someone else serving you.

        The Sabbath is best kept Holy reading The word of God.

        Here are the verses which command this perpetual commandment of The Lord.
        Exd 20:9
        Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
        Exd 20:10
        But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates:
        Exd 20:11
        For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

        By keeping The sabbath Holy you are acknowledging that God is YOUR Creator.

      • p.s.

        The Lord says ‘if you love Me you will keep my commandments’
        He is God and that is how God requires us to Love Him.

      • I’ve read that Jahovah is an abomination of his name that was used in paganism in satan’s need to be like God, and the JWs, since their founder was illuminati and therefore satanist applied that name intentionally

        YHWH (Yahweh) seems to be the closest we have but it’s also Imprtant to know that it pile have been doctored – the most powerful people in the world are Zionist false Jews and satanists, and since Jews revere the pronunciation of the name it is easy for them to take away theoretically… I’ve read that Elohim and I Am that I Am are edits to make people revere idols, not certain but I know “El” is a bad name- It’s used in Hollywood in satanistic themed movies, Superman is Kal El, powers from the sun, symbol S(satan, sometimes stylised as a dragon or snake on close inspection) in a pyramid, representing the antichrist as the one to save us (don’t forget that the satanistic Illuminati think satan is the good guy through deception – hence Star Wars, Yoda is satan in looks and personality through their false perception of him)

        The Dead Sea scrolls, if they are genuine, do allude to Yeshua/Yehoshua and YHWH being the true names though.

        I can’t wait til the day God and Yeshua reveal to us all we need to know that we currently don’t 😀

      • How important is the Sabbath for Christians and is the day important?

        “Sabbath was made for man not man for sabbath” said Yeshua – does this mean we can choose to work or not wrk, but we must give others the freedom to not work, or that we are free to enjoy the day as we want as long as we don’t cause others to work that wouldn’t be working anyway/out of choice?

        • D

          1.. you do no work
          Six days may work be done; but in the seventh [is] the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth [any] work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. (exodus 31:15)

          2, you focus on the Lord that day, not your own pleasures….like golf, football, etc

          If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, [from] doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking [thine own] words: (Isaiah 58;113)

          Yahsua did explain this….he and his disciples picked grain on the sabbath, which was considered work, but he explained that the sabbath was made for man, as you quoted.

          So, it was actually relaxing, not work, for them to pick the grain and get something to eat. If we are doing things that are relaxing to us then it is ok. I try not to shop on sabbath, but I actually enjoy shopping, being a female. 🙂 I can shop and still keep my mind on the Lord. However, for someone else, shopping would be a chore, so they should avoid it.

          another example…people on the computer on sabbath…this is pursuing their own pleasure……BUT….for me, when I am on the computer, I am about discussing the Word of God with people, so my focus is on the Lord, not worldly things.

          we just have to use proper judgment on what we do and not do on sabbath, to comply with what god said

  17. Who is mentioned in Zecheriah 14 will come ? -vs 1
    Who’s feet will be standing on the mount of Olives- vs 4?
    Who will be coming with all His saints? vs 5
    Who will be King ? vs 9
    And there shall be one Lord and His name shall be one vs 9

    The Jews are expecting YHWH to come.

    Who is really coming and will be standing on the mount of Olives? Yehoshua- ‘YHWH saves’, Revelation 14

    This is what the Lord says:

    ‘and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced,
    and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son,
    and shall be in bitterness for him,
    as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn’ Zecheriah 12: 11

    Jesus/Yeshua was equal to God and became a man? Philippians 2: 6,7

    How do we have to understand this?

    I am soul,body and spirit, but it is all me in one person.

    Three ways to appear, but still one ?

    I don’t believe in the three ‘persons’to be One-
    but it’s not quite clear to me yet.

  18. Great, Abigail.. Thank you.. I got it. Only problem is which day ? God’s calendar is different from earth calendar… and his days is different from earth days.. Some said Saturday… some said Sunday… and I am like ” Eh ?? ” which means I am pretty lost on that.
    And, Gavriel, interesting picture.. thank you 🙂 It helps.


    • The Sabbath is the seventh day.
      The first day is Sunday.

      If you ‘love’ God then keep His Commandments.
      He commanded the Seventh Day to be kept Holy.

      Man does NOT know love.
      If you ‘love’ God …
      You must be taught Love From God.
      Whatever we call love is not love at all.
      God is Love.
      You cannot begin to know Him without at least … making an effort to obeying Him.
      The perfect Law of God reflects (like the moon reflects the sun) His Love.

      Satan is a trickster and so tricked man to disobey … from the beginning.

  19. Abigail,

    Thank you. 🙂 I got it. So now, I can help my children to learn too.. and I agree with you there.



  21. Hello Everyone; Praise JESUS!!! The mighty name ABOVE every name. As I can see there are many here that have a misunderstanding of who God is. So you all interpret what you think he is. Then stamp it, as if it were God’s words. Everyone here seem to be very quick to speak, not knowing if there is something in God’s word that contradicts what they are saying. First of all, You say that there are 2 thrones in heaven!?!? Where exactly does it say that? That is your assumption… The book of Revelations clearly states over and over that there is ONE throne!(Quick ref. Rev.4:2,8)Let’s back up to the begining. God has always been one. His people were the Jews only (in the begining). So 1people with 1God. Since the Jews only believed in 1God; they were MONETHEIST. God wouldn’t have it any other way. In the Old Testament God says it over and over!!!! The Jews #1 commandment is found in Deut.6:4 “Hear O’ Israel, the Lord our God is ONE Lord.” Then repeated by Jesus in Mark 12:29. Then verse 5 of ch.6 in Deut. says “And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.” All in the book of Isaiah it speaks of ONE Lord God! Let’s look at a couple… Is.42:8; 43:10-12; 44:8; 44:24; 45:5-7; 46:9 just to name a very few. So you see; he is called Lord over and over. LORD IS DEFINATELY NOT SEPERATE FROM GOD! It is one and the same. That will not change. He is Lord of Lord, King of Kings and in that day there shall be ONE Lord and his NAME one,(Zech.14:9) Then Rev.3:12 says “…and I will write upon him the name of my God,and the name of the city of my God,which is new Jeruselem,which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.” STILL ONE NAME GET IT? It doesn’t matter if we believe in error; God will still hold us accountable. If we truly love God; let’s take away all are want to be smarter than God phylosophical,theological mind set. I don’t think I seen a single person on this page that knows God. “;…because they received not the love of the truth,that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them a strong delusion,that they should believe a lie: That they all MIGHT be damned who believed not the truth,but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”(2Thes.2:10-12) Please read Col.2:8-12>>>THIS IS THE TRUE GOSPEL! Trust in JESUS; Acts 2:38; Acts 4:12; Col.3:17. God bless!
    P.S. The Bible has ALL authority. 2Tim.3:16; 1Tim.3:16!!!!!


    • The bible can be black and white because its been written by so many authors that it causes confusion among believers. This has caused the different beliefs in the churches which causes the Body of Christ to Fail. This will weaken the KINGDOM of GOD. Jesus never needed the bible because he was the WORD and if Jesus said that he is the way the truth and the life, then let him lead you and listen and be led by his spirit. All instruction are given from God the Father and Jesus manifest his Fathers power on earth to all who believed. This tells us that Jesus never claim to be God. Jesus said no man has seen GOD and live,but all have been with JESUS. This is why the bible said, my people perish through the lack of knowledge. When you read the word, let the word speak to you. Jesus has said in the 4 gospels not my will be done but my Fathers (GOD) WILL BE DONE. Remember Jesus said no one comes to the father except by me. never try to interpret the word of God because you will destroy the scriptures. We must believe by FAITH…..Amen.

      • Dear Dr. Rupuha

        I think we agree and disagree. Jesus was the Word of God, and so he could quote the Word of God, which exactly matched what was written.

        The holy scriptures only had one author, the “Word of God” who is Jesus.

        The men involved only acted as scribes, working under the direction his holy spirit.

        When they said, “the Word of the Lord came to me,” they are actually describing Jesus walking up to them in the spirit, and speaking to them.

        Any confusion among believers does not come from what is written, but from the interpretation of what is there.

        We are instructed not to add or take away from the Word of God, but some people do this, including some churches.

        If we adhere strictly to what the written Word says, we will have the exact words Jesus spoke in the spirit to his earthly scribes before he arrived on earth, and afterward too.

        If we do not do this, then this “taking away or adding” will be what weakens the kingdom of God.

  22. It is comforting to read this presentation of Truth concerning Jesus Christ. The traditional beliefs of trinity and unitarianism are not supported at all by both old and new testaments.

    To add a little to what have been said, we need only to accept the written word of GOD as accurate and true. Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of GOD, because He is the only Son that was conceived and born as the Son of GOD. All angels and Adam and Eve were created the sons of GOD.
    When Adam and Eve sinned and fell, they needed redemption (adoption) to be restored to sonship. All the children of Adam that believe in Jesus Christ have been adopted as the sons of GOD.

    Who then is Jesus? Just as He had been saying Himself, the Son of Man. The Son of Man is a title for the 2nd Man (perfect and sinless) or last Adam. Why is it that a Man be called the Son of GOD? Look at GOD’s definition of a Man in Genesis 1:26 A Man is the Image of GOD and the Likeness of GOD. Thus it is nothing extra ordinary for Jesus to call Himself the Son of GOD, because He was made in the Image of GOD. Just like Adam and Eve at creation, Jesus was made in the Image of GOD at birth, but not yet in the Likeness of GOD as he was a mortal like Adam and Eve at creation. Gen.1:27 This scripture clearly says that Adam and Eve were created in the Image of GOD, which means that the other portion of GOD’s purpose to make them in His Likeness had not yet happened. Before they could become immortals (the Likeness of GOD), they already failed the test and lost their right to immortality. But Jesus Christ was different in that He faced the test and passed. He was made an immortal (the Likeness of GOD) by the resurrection of the dead. Rom.1:3-4 Now Jesus Christ is perfected forever as the Image of GOD (Divine Nature) and Likeness of GOD (Immortality). Besides He is also ordained as the Firstborn of the Immortals and is the only Son (Immortal) to be granted the right to sit at the right hand of the Throne of GOD.

    Jesus is the everlasting Father of the new humanity, just as Adam was the father of the old humanity. Only through Jesus Christ we shall be restored to all that have been lost through Adam.

  23. The bible says ..there is only one God and that God would not share his glory with another. it also says that god shed his own blood for us. The old testament says That he jesus would be called the mighty God ..The everlasting Father and no one can forgive sin but God ..not 2 not 3 only 1
    To say that jesus is not God is degrading him..Only GOD can save you or me from our sins …no other GOD no other nothing GOD in the old is jesus of the new. When he was the son…he was a theophony..same god different work…and you cannot show which is God or which is the spirit because They are both God…The same GOD…same as me i am the person typing to you but i’m also a father and more

    • hi Roy

      I am not degrading him.

      I just quoted God the Father, Jesus, and the epistles.

      Jesus is the son of God.

      Is not a prince the son of the king?

      Isn’t the prince human like his father king is human?

      Both are royalty.

  24. I understand your intentions of writing all this but I really don’t think God requires us to understand His form to this extent. Jesus asked who do you say I am to Simon in Matt 16;15-17 and Simon replies ” “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.” and Jesus calls him blessed because His Father in Heaven revealed it to Him. But then Thomas calls Him my Lord and my God in John 20:28 and Jesus just says back to him Blessed is he who believes without seeing. However Jesus never demanded them to know the extent of His divinity in relationship to the Father and the Spirit. He just said repent and put your trust in Jesus Christ. Your reasons are possibly correct but then there are prophetic scriptures like Isaiah 9:6 when it says we will call the child born unto us Almighty God, what is that about? It is important to acknowledge the Father and the Son as Jesus defended those claims on numerous occasions and in 1 John whoever does not acknowledge the Father and the Son and that Jesus is the Christ is the antichrist. Also we have to acknowledge and believe in the Spirit, because otherwise we are as orphans without God dwelling in us on this earth. However the connection and revelation of how these three truly form together is not necessary for your salvation I dont think. Forgive me Father if I am wrong and teach me the right way. There are clearly mysteries in God that we don’t understand, Paul speaks about several and David stated in Psalms His greatness is unsearchable, so there are some things about our God that we as mere humans cannot fathom. Only God is all knowing Amen…”that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
    in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
    11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
    to the glory of God the Father.” Amen to that, lets just trust in Jesus as our Lord, however equal we believe He is to God is an unecessary matter

    • hi Sarah

      I agree with what you are saying. I wrote this to balance out the opposite view that prevails….Many focus on Jesus and ignore the Father.

      They should both be acknowledged.

      I was pointing out the scriptures that focus on the Father as God, and Jesus as the Son of God.

      But this does not deny the divinity of jesus, but rather defines the line of authority in heaven. Even Jesus called his Father his God, and submitted to him.

      No matter how one sorts this out, it is still Gods intention that we see Jesus as the way to the Father, and jesus as the door to salvation.

  25. I will explain this concept very clearly, if you can show me a “worm” which can understand the feelings, thoughts, authority, and hierarchy of Human Beings.

    No one please don’t try to keep God into your own circles and squares.

    Still we did not understand our 3 year girl, and we are telling that we understood God.

    In the name of the Holy Father, Jesus our Lord and the Holy Spirit who is the teacher in this world,


  26. Isaiah 9:6 says the son is the mighty God and Everlasting Father.

    it would contradict ur claim of 2 being different isn’t it?

    In john 10:33 Jews are asking Jesus about being a mere man claiming to be God

    john 10:37-38 says Jesus in the father? a creation slightly above angels was made to be in God? please explain

    john 17:10 Jesus says to God all yu have is mine?!

    john 20:28 the verse where Thomas called Jesus GOD and LORD

    Philippians 2:6 says ”though he was GOD did not consider equality with GOD” this verse sure contradicts ur teaching

    john 1:1-3 says word was God and we know word is Jesus

    Romans 9:5 says Christ is man and GOD

    Colossians 1:15 Christ image of invisible GOD, and for Christ was everything made and by him. It also says GOD was please to live in Christ

    thereby shall we conclude by saying Jesus is GOD ?

    • Jesus is the son of God.

      You have to read all the scriptures, to see what Jesus said, not just pick out certain ones.

      Jesus made it clear that he was NOT the father God. Read the book of John.

      Jesus is divine, as being son of the Father God.

      consider this:

      1. what jesus prayed to his father……John 17:1-3

      These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

      As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

      And this is life eternal, that they might know thee,

        the only true God,

      and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

      2. Jesus and the Father make two, (2) :

      John 14:23

      Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

      We = more than one.

      3….one only God, and only one Lord

      1 Cor 8: 6

      But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him.

    • Someone has see the Truth! Someone sees beyond figurative speech, beyond a job description, beyond a function! 1 Cor 8:6 clearly states that God is both Father and Jesus Christ, yet the English interpretation is the exact opposite. I am a father and a son, I am a husband and a teacher. I am still just me, not various person. God, confirmed in 1 Cor 8:6, is both Father and Son, as also clearly depicted in Isaiah 9:6.

      English sometimes lacks in expression despite it having four times as many words than my own language. Yet the Bible in my language brings these facts across in a more understandable manner. Even the word “you” can be understood wrong and lead to misinterpretation.

      Jesus is the Everlasting Father.
      Jesus is the Son
      Jesus is the Messiah
      Jesus is the Word of God
      Jesus is God.

      1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1 = 1.

  27. picking certain verses from the scripture itself is what your doing too by replyng to me!

    Read ISAIAH 9:6 and tell me why the Son is called Everlasting Father and Mighty GOD!

    By the way yu haven’t answered any of my verses rather than just bringing other verses! Answer to the verses that i mentioned!
    In john 10:33 Jews are asking Jesus about being a mere man claiming to be God
    john 10:37-38 says Jesus in the father? a creation slightly above angels was made to be in God? please explain
    john 17:10 Jesus says to God all yu have is mine?!
    john 20:28 the verse where Thomas called Jesus GOD and LORD
    Philippians 2:6 says ”though he was GOD did not consider equality with GOD” this verse sure contradicts ur teaching
    john 1:1-3 says word was God and we know word is Jesus
    Romans 9:5 says Christ is man and GOD
    Colossians 1:15 Christ image of invisible GOD, and for Christ was everything made and by him. It also says GOD was please to live in Christ
    thereby shall we conclude by saying Jesus is GOD?

    And one more thing, First of all God isn’t human and when Bible says Jesus is Son of GOD don’t compare it in the human nature. According to human nature, GOD should be human and should possess a human wife inorder to have a Son/daughter. But here GOD isn’t human and neither is the son. Although Jesus came as a man, he wasn’t fully Man (he was born to a virgin by the Holy Spirit) thus proving he isn’t human.

    Pastor John MacArthur explains the verse as ‘’since the son bears his father’s qualities, calling a person someone else’s son was a way of signifying equality.

    • dear reno

      I have tried to answer each quote you gave. My answer is under each quote. Be blessed.

      Read ISAIAH 9:6 and tell me why the Son is called Everlasting Father and Mighty GOD!

      This is traditionally interpreted as a prophecy of the Messiah by Christians.

      The hebrew translates as
      For a child has been born to us, a son has been given to us, and the dominion will rest upon his shoulders; the Wondrous advisor, mighty God, Eternal Father, called his name Prince of Peace.

      Righteousness took place in the days of the child of Ahaz, the righteous king Hezekiah. In chapter 7, king Ahaz of the kingdom of Judah had asked for a sign fro the Lord that he would be preserved from the kings of Syria and the kingdom of Israel (divided kingdoms at that time). Chapters 7, 8, 9 are a discussion of the enemy threat to Judah, the promise of a sign, and a description of the reign of King Ahaz’s son, that was to be born to him.

      By the way yu haven’t answered any of my verses rather than just bringing other verses! Answer to the verses that i mentioned!

      In john 10:33 Jews are asking Jesus about being a mere man claiming to be God
      That was their misinterpretation of what Jesus said. Jesus did not say that. He had just said his works were from his Father (God in heaven). He then clarified in verse 35 that he was the Son of God.

      john 10:37-38 says Jesus in the father? a creation slightly above angels was made to be in God? please explain

      Jesus did not say he was created. He was expressing the oneness he had with the Father in heaven.

      john 17:10 Jesus says to God all yu have is mine?!

      Jesus and the Father share those selected by the father to continue the ministry of jesus.

      john 20:28 the verse where Thomas called Jesus GOD and LORD

      yes he did. He was acknowledging the divinity of jesus, and the presence of the Father on Jesus in his glorified state.

      Philippians 2:6 says ”though he was GOD did not consider equality with GOD” this verse sure contradicts ur teaching

      It actually says…..who being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with god. This is because the Father made it so.

      No contradiction here. The father shared his power and authority with the son.

      john 1:1-3 says word was God and we know word is Jesus

      If you read the rest of John, this is explained. Yes jesus was the deliverer of the Word, so was known that way, since he brought the Word from heaven to the earth, by taking on flesh, but the original Word was the Father.

      Look at john 12:50 where Jesus says he only speaks what he hears the Father say.

      And Look at John 14: where it says the Word is the Father.

      Romans 9:5 says Christ is man and GOD

      Actual translation is this
      Whose [are] the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ [came], who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

      So this says that God blessed Christ.

      Colossians 1:15 Christ image of invisible GOD, and for Christ was everything made and by him. It also says GOD was please to live in Christ
      thereby shall we conclude by saying Jesus is GOD?

      Yes he is the image of his father, just as you could be the image of your father. This does not make you your father. And his does not make him his father.

      If you look at verse 3 in the same chapter, it says:
      We give thanks to God, and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,

      And one more thing, First of all God isn’t human and when Bible says Jesus is Son of GOD don’t compare it in the human nature. According to human nature, GOD should be human and should possess a human wife inorder to have a Son/daughter. But here GOD isn’t human and neither is the son. Although Jesus came as a man, he wasn’t fully Man (he was born to a virgin by the Holy Spirit) thus proving he isn’t human.

      God does not need a wife to have a son. Jesus was the son of God before he ever came to earth and took human form.

      • it is clear from your comment regarding Isaiah 9:6 that Jesus/Son is GOD! This explains it, i was just saying the same thing!

        Now you have certain interpretations regarding the verses, need not be necessary that they are right. Those can be just your own point of view.
        Bible says GOD created everything, bible also says everything was created by Jesus and for Jesus(john 1:1-3,14). It also says word who is God became flesh and dwelt among us! and we know word is Jesus!
        This is what i want to convey, Jesus is GOD and i dint bring any new theories, just verses that prove it.
        I do know the other things what bible tells of Him, but i do want to bring into ur attention that don’t ignore the part where Bible says he is GOD!

    • Reno
      I am not entering the debate, but do take exception to one comment you made. Read 1 John 4:1-6, and MacArthurs comments on them. Jesus was most certainly fully human. Agnostics typically deny the Humaness of Christ, and this is as critical a heresy as denying his divinity. He yielded his divinity to become man, thus being able to suffer death on the cross.

      • Even i’m not here to debate, but you know certain verses in Bible are forcing me to be here and talk abt it.

        ISAIAH 9:6 calls the Son/Jesus – Everlasting Father and Mighty GOD

        and what i’m saying is even Jesus was GOD in bible. I did not add anything on my own, rather than just point verses from Bible. If i go wrong then so does bible!

        Genesis 1:26 also talks of plural GOD! it says ”Let US make man in OUR image and OUR likeness”.

        But bible says GOD created everything, bible also says everything was created by Jesus and for Jesus(john 1:1-3,14). It also says word who is God became flesh and dwelt among us! and we know word is Jesus!
        Again it supports my belief.

  28. Hi Reno,

    Marianne is more than capable of answering your questions as you can see by her reply.
    But I though that I would just interject for a moment here too, and address one of them, and then pose another to you.

    First you are completely misunderstanding Philippians 2: 6-8.

    6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
    (So Paul is saying here, though Jesus being only in a form of God, (man created in Their image), thought it wasn’t stealing anything to be actually equal with God.)
    7 But made himself of no reputation , and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
    (So Paul reiterates, that Jesus made Himself of no importance, and took the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.)

    8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
    (And though being God, but now fashioned as a man, He humbled Himself, and became obedient unto death at the Cross for God and mans sins.)

    Here is one for you. If Jesus wasn’t God, how could He expound on what were initially Gods Ten Commandments in Matthew 5:21-48.?

    Praise Yeshua the King

    • Praise the Lord!

      Marianne isn’t capable to answer my questions, just that she gave her interpretations to the verses. Doesn’t mean she is right! And because you think that way doesn’t mean you’re right.

      My view is Jesus is GOD and in Isaiah 9:6 it is clear even in Marianne reply above.
      in your post above just look at Phil 2:6 it says who ‘being in form of GOD’, did not consider the that explains AGAIN the fact that Jesus was in form of GOD and equal to GOD, lets ignore the part whether he considered it or not!!

      Genesis 1:26 even points out plural GOD, it says ”Let US make man in OUR image and OUR likeness”.

      Study the bible carefully before you comment.

      • Reno,

        We may be arguing the same point here, but the subject is so complex that it is virtually impossible for the human mind to completely comprehend.

        There is GOD, JESUS and HOLY SPIRIT, and THEY are all ONE GOD TOGETHER!
        If you believe that GOD is GOD, then you are right.
        If you believe that JESUS is GOD, then you are right.
        If you believe that HOLY SPIRIT is GOD, then you are right.

        I wish you peace in the Blood of Jesus.
        Praise be to YESHUA the Glorious KING

        • 1x1x1=1 not 1/3+1/3+1/3=1 from beginning to end.

          • All the same thing, we are just expressing it differently.
            ALL ARE GOD PERIOD!

            Man my brother, is this really the time to have a petty argument about semantics? lol.
            Love You Brother.

            • You pointed out the complexity, I pointed out the simplicity. Not meant to be an argument, but an affirmation. I meant it more for Reno, though I replied to you.

              • LOVE YOU BROTHER! 🙂

                VICTORY and PRAISE to YESHUA the KING of GLORY and SALVATION.

                Check your email regarding music.

            • By using the trinity model, we alienate possible converts from Judaism or Islam, as, like the majority of Christians, they take this to be literal. Never did the Bible speak of a trinity. Jesus commanded that all should be baptized in His name, yet the Bible was translated to meet the requirements of the church instead! That is an open deception and false teaching.

              Meet Jesus in John 20:14, a Jesus few Christians have in mind.

              • Lotus
                Read Hosea 11:1
                The father – the holy spirit – prophet- is one= Trinity.
                the father speaks through his prophet with help with the Holy spirit.

                • No, Adam, being mind x body x spirit surely doesn’t make three separate personalities, as that is what is believed by the Byzantine monks, then the RCC and later even the majority of Protestants.

                  That God exists as three separate persons or consists of three separate personalities just is heresy. The Bible is very clear on there being only One God and that God is called both Father and Son, is Spirit in nature and His attributes are also depicted as the Holy Spirit. The type in the OT is mirrored by the anti-type in the NT.

                  No, definately not three separate persons. Trinity teaching, from day one, divided God into three different persons. Your own model above does not correspond with the trinity teaching of the church.

                  Many Christians see God as three different persons, which He is not. When you see Him as one but talk about trinity, you still sow confusion amongst non-believers. Hosea 11:1 does not even speak of Jesus but of Israel. Or was Jesus also a slave in Egypt?

                  Best is to get to KNOW our Lord Jesus in a much more personal way than through church teachings and through religion. There was a different Jesus who had revealed Himself to me when i asked Him to, when Christians persecuted me and my family in a most inhumane way. When Muslims started to support us, my faith was in jeopardy after so many of the abusive pastors and elders at church maintained that Jesus was not even (part of) God. I had an urgent need to know and my questions were answered, not by scholars, not by rabbi’s, pastors or priests, but by Jesus Himself – over a period of time.

                  Best is to follow Scripture and not to teach what is not written there; we need to return to the pure teachings of the Bible, of the first apostles, not the fraudulent Bible we have today. We need to return to His truth instead of accepting false teaching. Do yourself a favour and reseacrh the origins and history of the trinity drivel, a concept spawned by man for political ends.

                • Get the bigger picture. Are nitpicking? Have you studied all the material that I have presented? Of course Jesus would be called son, but that, according to my Bible, is neither fully definitive nor the last authoritative word on His being God. Read the rest of the Bible and then see this verse in context.

  29. LOL that’s exactly what i’m saying too! 1=1=1 simple

  30. i agree because i say we are going to see Jesus and GOD when we get to heaven so how can that make them one and their words are not confusing its the languages and meanings that can confuse us and the translators are only human and i don’t see in the Bible anywhere that Jesus said pray to him, Jesus said pray to GOD but ASK in his name not PRAY to him in his name.

  31. Good teaching and explination. I appreciate 🙂

  32. Marianne I was reading your blog and some I agreed with until you demeaned Jesus as just a Son and that HIS God is the Father. Are you a Mormon? You cannot have Christ as LORD and God, or the Lord God or the perfect Lamb of God or the Way, Truth and Life and only Way to the Father if you demean Christ as simply equal to an angelic being chosen to do the Will of the Father.

    • James

      I am not a Mormon.

      I am just repeating what the bible says.

      I am not demeaning Jesus.

      Jesus is the Son of God, and he is Lord.

      Jesus said the Father was greater than he was.

      • Marianne, Jesus sometimes clearly spoke as the man Jesus and sometimes as the God within Jesus. We need to see that the flesh and the Spirit (identity) are not the same. Therefore, in figurative speech, He is called Son of Man and also Son of God. Each has its own meaning.

        Perhaps the biggest problem on earth is that believers overlook or do not fully appreciate the figurative speech, the metaphors. Fundamentalism sadly dilutes the message, or sometimes even kill it.

    • Not only Mormons, James, but so many churches across the globe also say that Jesus is only the son of God and not God as well. You will be surprised to see how widespread this fraudulent belief is around the world. Only this morning, a Muslim Imam, on a TV show, was in agreement that Jesus was born of a virgin and also the Messiah. He cannot, however, find consolation in a trinity idea and he correctly denounce it is a fallacy.

      I do not understand why there has to be a discussion on this as the history and the origin of the trinity teaching has been exposed as heresy many times over. After all, we need to “test the spirit” , not just accepting everything we get fed as gospel. We need to discern, to judge and to test teachings. As long as we read in a secondary language from incorrect translations, how can we know the truth?

      We need to be awake. Jesus told His followers to guard against deception as, in His own words, “many of you will be deceived.” I hope that this will inspire others to study and do their own proper due diligence.


    Jesaja 9:6  For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
    7  Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

    Johannes 1:1  ¶In the beginning was the Word (Logos), and the Word (Logos)was with God (Theos), and the Word was God (Theos) Also check Revelation 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God

    14  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

    Clearly, Jesus is the Lord who is the Father who is Spirit. Now read Isaiah 11:2 as well..Jesaja 11:2  And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;


  34. Some writing on the history and origins of the trinity idea:

    Now, read about what the Bible teaches, also not my own comments. I did not take my views from any of these and just googled it for your convenience, as I haven’t even read it through!

    I have done my homework myself, over many years and I have just assisted you in getting to the Biblical truth much easier and quicker than I did. Hope this helps a bit! 🙂

    • Lotus,

      Please do not take this reply as starting a debate or argument – just exploring the Word (spoken/written and wisdom). Yeshua was and is the Word (spoken and wisdom). Yeshua (the Word) was present in the beginning with God. I love the Him.

      Your posts cause me to search the Scriptures and ask Him more questions, searching Scriptures and building my relationship with Him and hopefully with you. Thank you for posting what you have come to understand.

      Before I go any further – what is your native language and your homeland? I like to communicate with people outside of the American (western) mindset.

      Please share your thoughts on the following. I’ve copied a segment of a study by Derek Prince because it captures the question of the Beginning concisely. Prince writes:

      “In God both oneness and plurality are eternally combined. This mystery confronts us in the opening verse of the Bible: ‘In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.’

      In the original Hebrew, elohim (the word for “God”) is plural in form, but the verb bara (created) is singular. In other words, both oneness and plurality are combined.

      Further on, in Genesis 1:26, we are again confronted with the combination of singular and plural in reference to God: “Then God said, ‘Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness. . . .’” The verb “said” is singular in form, but the pronouns “Us” and “Our” are plural.

      This combination of singular and plural in reference to God recurs in other passages of Scripture. The prophet Isaiah had a vision of the Lord on His throne and then heard Him say, “Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us?”

      The pronoun “I” implies that one Person is speaking, but the pronoun “Us” indicates that He is speaking on behalf of more than one Person” (Derek Prince).

      So then, the Word was in the beginning with God and was God.

      God sent the Spirit (breath of God) to overshadow Mary so that she might conceive and give birth to the Son of God, Yeshua.

      Yeshua (obedient to the will of His Father and His life was a testimony of the Word), was raised from the dead by God.

      Father God then gave God the Son dominion over all things in heaven and on earth (spiritual and physical).

      Here is very clear statement in 1st John 5:7-8, (NKJV) copied below with [my comments]:

      “For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.

      [This is evidence of “trinity” (3) in the beginning (Gen. 1 and John 1), which are in unity (complete agreement)].

      And there are three that bear witness [evidence of what is in heaven since the beginning] on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one.”

      [These 3 agree as one for the Spirit of God was Yeshua’s spiritual life (the way, truth and life because He was born of the Spirit. Yeshua’s physical body was the water and blood of humanity (Mary’s DNA) and His testimony (life and ministry) of the Word made flesh.]

      In summary:

      In the beginning was Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit (“trinity”). Now, there is Father, God the Son (Yeshua, the Word made flesh) and the Holy Spirit. These are distinctly 3, yet one Devine purpose (John 17) and I am one with Him. Thank you Lord.

      I look forward to reading your reply.

      Psalm 119:2

  35. Hi DJ 🙂

    Yes, He comes in various formats, to make it simple, yet we need to understand that He appears according to the requirement/need of the moment, always to perform a function or ministry. As He is spirit essentially and because He can appear as He pleases, we will see Him in many ways. Three is not the highest number here, either. All in all, it remains a matter of His choice, acting His sovereignty. While we notice the three, we also notice the one, the seven and the nine – if we are being honest about Him and His ways. Most sadly limit their views of Him to the three and conveniently ignore His other aspects.

    Email me reneg8or [at] live [dot] com or visit

    Derek Prince: my bone of contention as he departed before I could meet him in person; Derek and Lydia Prince were amazing ambassadors of the Kingdom of Christ Jesus, people whose teachings I have taken to heart.

    God in the plural [ELOHIM] does not even literally mean God (El Shaddai Eloha Adonai] where Eloha is singular. We interpret the Bible to mean God, as in Genesis, but it could even have been angels who had executed His plan by proxy, as He is known to delegate. ELOHIM could also include God and (some of) His angels. It is pure speculation because our languages does not tell the full story here and assumptions are being made, to suit our beliefs about creation. One day, we will know for sure…..

  36. Lotus,

    Where is your home (country/region)?

    Lotus – Are you a flower, car or software? What is the meaning to this name you post?

    Derek Prince – read most of his books, seen most of his YouTube presentations and listened to a few audio files. He thought me (discipleship) about spiritual warfare, binding/casting out in His name. His book “Entering The Presence of God” is excellent and worthy of buying (used on Amazon).

    My quotation in the reply above came from this page.

    If you want to apply God’s delegation of angles to include creation, okay. I can tell you that Nathaniel makes visits on His behalf. A blessing to me since 2010, thank you Father God.

    I know and identify the 3 and the 7 but what are you referring to with 9?

    9 is not known to be a number God has applied with Devine significance or Devine relevance. 1, 3, 7, 10, 12 have Devine significance. Note: 144,000 is 12x12x10.

    Just checked out your blog.

    I like it here. 😉

    You should visit and post here often.

    Psalm 36:7-9

  37. I am not referring to numerology but a mere “body count” in His throne room. Strange things happen there, such as a lamb as if slaughtered but standing upright, seven eyes which are the seven spirits of God, and God on His throne. 1 lamb plus 7 spirits plus one God = 9.

    Yet the Bible shows God as singular when visiting Abraham, although he brought two others with Him. It is of no use to argue this but better to use the time to spread the Love, as we will be going in circles forever. When dealing with opinion and not fact, we get caught up in the kind of talk that Paul had warned against. I really do not want to labour the point, either. I have said what I have said because that is what Jesus showed to me when I requested Him to.

    Fact is: I am tri-une yet I have only one identity, one personality. I am not Steve, Joe and Gottfried but just one person. With God, it is the very same.

    I would like to come here but the Satan is always on these pages, dressed as a syrupy smooth and immensely polite person, who uses the kindest words to rip into one’s flesh and stick a dagger into your heart. The religious, holy hypocrites trawl pages like these and show up, sooner than later. I want to share, to learn, to be edified, but not to get entangled in all sorts of creamy smooth hellish talk. It has happened a number of times before and my life is too short, my remaining energy too precious to waste it upon those argumentative sweet-as-honey murderous trolls. Sorry for stating this in an abrasive and forthright manner, yet I am just speaking the truth.

    Those people, by discouraging teachers of the truth, are blocking others’ path to salvation or growth. No wonder that Jesus told them as much! I am, as a result, extremely suspicious of politeness.

    Lotus 1-2-3 was my spreadsheet, in years gone by much more potent than even the latest Excel. And it multiplied 1x1x1 and produced 1.

    So, as long as people are germane and not soliciting trouble, I play ball. The moment that Christians start being nasty, I withdraw and leave, as I have a very large Muslim community to attend to, where the Truth is readily accepted, understood and appreciated. Never did any of them become nasty.

    Christianity does not reflect Jesus because they serve the dead one who was abbreviated at the cross, arose and faded into oblivion. Like the lady at the grave, most don’t recognize Him and mistake Him for the gardener. As long as we identify with powerless flesh, our faith will just be rhetorical.

    • lotus

      it is possible to be polite and still be genuine.

      I agree that hypocrisy is awful, and turns people off.

      nasty people are a turn off also.

      • Marianne

        Yes, that is the ideal, to be polite and genuine. Sadly, the opposite is true more often than not. Some are expert snipers of the heart but appear as Cupid.

        Jesus was not known for diplomacy and neither were the judges, the prophets, the disciples or the apostles. Yet you could rely on them, but not upon the smooth-talkers at the temple. It is essential to be reliable before trying to be popular. I can be that, yet I find it increasingly challenging to tolerate the false brethren in our midst.

        Read about Jesus and His chat with Nicodemus, or His conversation with the woman at the well. Not exactly well-mannered but rather forthright. In some countries, such as Canada for example, He may have been perceived to be rude, even. Cultures differ but Jesus Christ is reliable to the bitter end, even if He was a tad abrasive sometimes.

  38. Lotus,

    Thanks for sharing.

    The American culture is filled with superficial behaviors. Every culture has its challenges.

    American seems to have the church in a box, marketing with messages and services to meet perceived pressing needs. Little attention is given to seeking Scriptures over time with a heart desiring truth (Psalm 25:4-5), identifying with spiritual growth thought fasting and prayer before Almighty God.

    God is greater than we think with more loving kindness than we deserve. I love the LORD (does that cover it?). 🙂

    I look forward to reading your future comments and replies. If I disagree with you I may let you know with Scripture backup or just accept your comment with an “okay”, meaning I’ve given it thought and moving on.

    But, please know that I do make a conscious effort not to sow discord among the brethren (Proverbs 6:19 and James 5:7-12). The evil one does play in churches and websites like this one. We wrestle against principalities (regional, cultural spirits) and powers (pride, envy, bitterness, fear, and Jezebel to name a few).

    The Lord will led His sheep to green pastures and beside still waters, including me in His time and for His purpose (Psalm 23:1-3).


  39. DJ 🙂

    As a former custodian of large budgets of public accounts and, at times, also auditor thereof, same as in the private sector, I know to deal with source documents. I have also learned that speculation and opinion eventually leads to discord, so I go out of my way to avoid it.

    The USA is the bastion of Christianity, even if it is perceived to be apostate and sometimes selfish in its actions. The church there still is in a better state of repair than in my own country, where at this moment, the bearer of atheist communism is awaiting his death, with a world worshiping him at his feet. I live in a country where Christianity willingly votes dictatorship, communism and oppression into government, simply because they do not have the facts, but are dealing with opinion. They prefer a proven terrorist over Jesus Christ! That man, whilst in jail for having partnered with communist regimes and after having performed acts of terror, was never even tried or convicted for the subsequent torture and murders, militant attacks on a church, for blood shed by the innocent. Instead, the global church cried for his freedom and now, at his final hour, he is being hailed as a saviour, while Jesus is being wiped under the carpet. Such is the apostasy of the church. From his prison cell, he planned and ordered immense acts of terrorism and violence, yet he gets preference over Jesus. It is idolatry of the highest level.

    The Bible states that Jesus = God = Creator in the book of John.

    Trinity only became known the third century AD. Investigate its roots and history. The facts are this:

    1. It originated in pagan religions.
    2. It was imported into the church for political ends.
    3. That political need arose when some scholars interpreted Scripture as wrongly as it is being done today. They were fundamentalists who took every word to have been literal and that obviously led to confusion and discord.

    God is Spirit and is One God, that much we know already. Now, why would Spirit need yet another Spirit to make Him whole? Why the replication?

    Jesus: in a perfect creation, if man always chose to side by God and do His will, there never would have been sin, never would there have been separation, never would there have been the need for redemption. Creation was perfect in relation to man and he walked in God’s company without constraint. It was a perfect situation not different from what we perceive as “heaven on earth.”

    It was only man’s decision to deviate and choose to stray from God, that had brought alienation, exile, curse and decay. Flesh sinned and flesh needed to redeem, or pay for, the sin incurred as a debt. We needed to debit the account of salvation with a credit note written in blood. Gallons of blood from lambs and steers could not achieve it, ritual adherence to impossible laws could not bring justification and, as we know, God became flesh and lived amongst us. He did so because He decided to intervene by becoming flesh, yet without an entry of sin in His own records, so that He could prevent legal tender to pay for our sins. His clean record, not debited with sin, became a journal entry that credited our account so as to wipe out the sin we owned.

    Jesus simply is God manifest in human form and He, according to the Bible, by no means is a separate entity, not a separate person, just God having become visible.

    I really hope that some will be prepared to challenge their own traditional beliefs, to research where trinity teaching came from in the first place, then to see what the Bible says and also what Jesus and the first church of Acts believed.

    As someone called to prepare the way for His coming, it is my calling and purpose to bring His flock out of a cursed traditional religion, to embrace the true church, to follow the true Jesus, not the politically re-engineered one. I am not here to deal with speculation or opinion but with the factual situation.

    I have done a forensic audit on this matter – have you? I encourage you to go search for the Truth as He is easy to be found, once you are willing to take that crucial step.

    Jesus will NOT return for an apostate bride, for a divided one, for one that freely elects the anti-christ, for one that is self-centered and egotistic. We have a real need to restore the church of Acts.

  40. There weren’t three wise men, but many. In our minds, there are three wise men, such is human nature.

    Next, we have three Gods in one? All of a sudden, 3 centuries after Christ?

    Rome, the Vatican and Babylon: something we don’t always understand is why the entire traditional church structure is part of the Iraqi Babylon: bear in mind that Constantine adopted ancient Babylonian influence, teachings, even rituals, when he alienated the true church from God.

    Every church on earth that does not fully conform to the original “church of Acts” has originated from Rome, which is rooted in ancient Babylonia. Therefore, Rev 18 tells us to come out of her, as there is a curse on her.

    The model of a church where a pastor lords over a flock and has his authority enforced by elders, already is a replication of Rome. Instead, we should see every hamlet, village, town, suburb, city to have just the church, not different denominations.

    The man-made structure is divisional and it alienates believers from another. It fragments them, it polarizes them.

    Jesus Christ, our beloved Yeshua, will only return for a unified bride, one that seemingly will only consist of a remnant and not the masses attending these churches.

    We demote Jesus
    We find a spirit sibling for God who already is spirit
    We combine the three
    A new religion is born!

    Is it a true one, though?

  41. USA now Babylon? Others say it is the new Jerusalem. Babylon, my friend, is anywhere Jesus and His truth is not being served. USA has no Biblical nor historical claim to be Babylon. Read Walid Shoebat’s “Why I Left Jihad” and understand better, also the banned book by Jack Chic.

    It serves no purpose arguing this but, instead, let us go to the Lord Jesus and restore our relationship with Him. Let us forgive others so that we can be forgiven. Let us rid ourselves of animosity and, instead, let us speak LIFE over His people.

    • 777
      I suggest you look at Dimitru Dudmans prophecy when he was awake. Walid Shoebat is an ex terrorist so I do not trust him.

  42. EX-terrorist. A repentant man. A reborn spirit. A new being. Redeemed by the blood of the Lamb. Cleansed. A leader by example and now crucified by a Christian. It happens all over again.

    Tell me, Adam, what is your relationship with Christ Jesus and are you leading others to Him today? Shall we not rejoice with the angels when someone gets saved and repent from his errors?

    Encourage people to accept Jesus, to truly serve Him, also encourage new converts to grow in Him. Are you, Adam, serving Jesus?

    • My Church knows that if someone is a muslim as an adult and coverts he is not accepted as a Christian. What I am saying is that if someone has been a muslim for 40 years and converts and lives as a Christian in 20 year.s. Jesus treats him as a muslim.

  43. ….and the Messiah wrote in the sand…….

  44. I do not remember the reasoning but I was told that the Archangel Michael who was the highest of all angels and god first creation became Jesus to save us from sin. Also when Jesus was temped by Satan he was recovering his memories of being in heaven.

    God creates Michael in his unseen image

    God makes Michael his word

    Michael creates all

    Satan screws with the balance ( Satan is the angel in charge of the earth)

    Michael becomes Jesus still is Gods word (a PREFECT man without sin because he was made of God not man, Michael loses his position as an Archangel becoming a man)

    Jesus sacrifice corrects the balance (allows us to be seen in gods eyes through Jesus, Jesus/Michael regain position having fulfilled his duty)

    Jesus/Michael defeat Satan
    Jesus/Michael take a new name and become ruler of gods kingdom

  45. […] Jesus and His relationship with the Father God […]

  46. Hi,

    First an foremost what does everlasting mean? where you go or where you are let alone come from, this article seems to be talking about only the purpose of being Jesus.

    I would think being the Christ would relate to everlasting to come right? because we have seen an touched him. ok

    Then we go to everlasting from everlasting, this concludes that there was an relationship before creation at that point Jesus wasn’t needed be sent? or was he?.

    What i’m trying to say everlasting to everlasting might be an state where we see God “All in All”.

    Thank you Jesus an let love another.

  47. Yes the must be a
    something to this, I mean looking at our Lord being the sole instrument in creation does leave one to wonder does applying roles for three different beings a reality constant with what we want to believe. An relationship of christ is still involved today manifestation. Trying to say my father being involved in creation means as well he is before age strength & limit. Because fall under condition an Lord jesus christ didn’t qualify to age that is begotten. So Christ was all in all before the was even an condition why today we are Saved.

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