Churches Ignore the Poor


The church has lost its heart.

I recently got this brochure from a local Christian based homeless shelter.

When I read it I was shocked.

The Mission had to rely mostly on individual donors for support.

Churches would only donate 2.6 % of the total:


The church is called to help the poor.

This is a long standing expectation, that goes back to before the time of Christ, for all God’s people.

Churches should look like this:


Where the homeless and weary can find a safe place to sleep and rest

We should NEVER see things like this in our cities:


Churches take their tithes / donations and spend it on salaries and bigger churches.

There is something wrong with their management of things.

They should give to the poor first, and to themselves second.

Actually, the tithe belongs to God, not pastors or people.

Here is another graph, to show the same pattern. Notice that less than 10 % of money goes to charity.

This they call “generous”:


What is so “generous” about 6.6% to 8.2% ?

Here is a church with revenue ( donations) of $309.027 per MONTH.

And they give zero (0) to the poor.

Somehow, they need $98,541 for worship????


The administration does well, at $123,786 earnings per month….well paid.

Imagine how much the money from just administration and worship could do for the local poor.

That would be


+ $98,541

$222,327 money available for poor

I guess the lesson taught by Jesus fell on deaf ears for these churches:


So right now, God cannot depend on churches to do his work.

He depends on individuals to do it.

Anyone belonging to one of these “churches” should re-think their commitment.

176 Responses to “Churches Ignore the Poor”

  1. […] here for […]

  2. I seriously doubt that the Church would satisfy the “long standing expectation”- if that is Biblical at all – to help the poor by throwing money at them. If your point is the same as made through that “Back Pew” cartoon it is totally wrong. Jesus’ message was specifically for a rich young man that was more dedicated to his money that to God, and Jesus showed him that conflict by telling him to sell all…
    That command does not apply to everyone. It looks to me that you present the Judas Iscariot method for helping the poor. Take from those wealthy who are truly worshiping Jesus to give to the poor. Study that passage in John 8:1-8 ish and you can deduce that there are wrong ways to help the poor also a clear warning that “helping the poor” can be ruse to gain money and power.
    Ancient Israel had a “welfare system” of sorts but I don ‘t see any place where they were told to give money to the poor. The Proverbs has admonitions concerning people who refuse to work and are poor because of it.
    God has always depended on each person -individuals- in the church to do his work. Most churches today are weak because of the Kool-Aid (Sugar, water, and flavor, good tasting but no nutrition) teachings from the pulpit not because they refuse to give money to the poor.
    At this time standing up to the anti-Christian government policies is much more important. The poor who want to work and and those who want to be self-sufficient will be much more helped by a robust economy than one made ill by socialistic (help the poor) high tax policies.

    • rich

      it is unfortunate that you think that way.

      we do not help the poor by throwing money at them, but to give them the supplies and services they need.

      you think wealthy people should keep their money ? you think by refusing the poor they are “worshiping god?”

      helping the poor in the truest sense has never made anyone rich or powerful

      there are REAL poor, and not all are free loaders

      • Marianne,
        If helping the poor was just giving them the “supplies and services” they need then you may have it right. However if helping the poor involves getting them to a position in life where they can avoid being poor and can work to share with others, you are (probably) merely satisfying a liberal’s guilty conscience, and doing it the wrong way.

        You actually think that Judas Iscariot had it right? Really? I bet you haven’t even read that passage let alone consider the implications.

        I definitely think it is wrong to force the wealthy through taxation or misuse of scripture to help the poor. I definitely think it is a voluntary thing to do. It is the rich person’s decision – between him and God – to help, and help should be carefully meted out as to not create dependency. Also, I definitely think it is a job that only the Bible believers and readers can do and it must be done correctly. There are many missions around and they usually do it right. If your church is starting a mission then great.

        What you say abut helping the poor, “has never made anyone rich and powerful” you have overlooked the Democrat Party’s use of covetousness against the wealthy to build a powerful base of wealthy and powerful politicians and a nation of government programs that create dependency in the people who have been convinced they need the government’s help. They also misuse the scripture just as Jack Larson’s paraphrase misused it to make the same wrong point.
        God’s work must be done God’s way or else it becomes a work of evil.

        This is something that I do actually think about then compare to God’s word and not just react emotionally as you appear to have done.

        • rich

          I am not a liberal, and do not support any liberal agenda to get rich off the poor.

          yes the best way is to give the poor a step up, but first you have to get them off the streets and make sure they have food to eat.

          the mission I support is the raleigh rescue mission, and they do just this….people go through a program there, and end up living productive lives.

          I do not care about judas iscariot… you brought him up, not me.

          i do not think the poverty problem will be solved as long as government over taxes people and gives money to undeserving people.

          it will solve when the church does its job properly, and right now, it has failed.

          • Heh, I didn’t really think you are a liberal, but it seemed the same mindset that causes such a seeming reaction against rich people.

            I brought up Judas because he wanted to force the worship of a fairly rich lady to be turned into cash and put in the bag he carried. Very similar to the “make the rich pay their fair share” and “we want to help the poor” today.

            They also misuse the rich young ruler scripture to illicit Christian guilt into voting for “poor programs.”
            I suspect that churches that do not help the poor in some way have some serious other scriptural issues.

            In this nation as in all one of Satan’s devices has been to get the Church off track by using man’s good idea to supplant God’s way.

            • well I am not about all that

              there are real people who have had hard times….

              hard working people laid off

              people who are sick

              abused women who get kicked out of house with their kids

              disabled vets who cannot get their pension


              I am not talking about bums who drain the system…..

              and I am not about taking advantage of those with a good job

        • Rich…tell us what we ought to do?…I’ve been working since the age of 15…came from a very poor family of 10 children, could never afford college, worked darn hard and never a living wage, was a single parent and never took a dime from welfare…when i was young and strong, I Worked! and worked very hard…now, I am 52 am very ill, no family, my husband left me, I lost everything thru my illness, except my faith!!! Even after I was abandoned by everyone even the church…my parents are dead…so what should i do? what would you do…the church did not want me anymore bc I could not work or tithe…money is obviously your security blanket…do you realize you could lose it? you cannot buy back your health…you can only turn to Jesus and trust in Him and him alone…and that is what he has taught me…I am poor, I cannot afford to go to the dentist or purchase of pair of glasses…i hardly drive anymore especially at night bc I cannot see…the churches liked me when i threw money in the plate and volunteered…where are they now? I would assume you represent this kind of church? I pray you find some grace and compassion for those who are less fortunate then yourself…Josi

          • josi

            you have my prayers and support….I hope you get your needs met.

            check with social services and local charities that are county run.

            sometimes the secular world is more helpful than the churches.

            • Marianne, you’ve encouraged me so many times on this blog and here you are again, encouraging me…i love you sister…I had put great effort into finding some help but if you make a certain amount of disability/income that falls outside their “poverty guidelines” then you cannot qualify for their services, having Medicare alone bumps you..and even if your income is already very low and you are living paycheck to paycheck, as I have been for years now doesn’t guarantee you any help…Medicare will not pay for dental or vision…If a crisis hits, and it’s not a matter of if but when, my health declines further, my car quits, my dental problems increase, or my glasses break, i am pretty much up the creek without a paddle like many upon many of us are…when my washing machine went out, i went begging to a local Mom and Pop appliance store to help me..i live two stories up and groceries alone carrying them up is very very hard on me so imagining carrying up wet clothes would be a hardship on me due to my health, and this was a real piece of junk washer but i was praising God anyway BC it Worked! Churches, where are you???…is the church so blind to this that they cannot see what is directly in front of them?…when i couldn’t get to the store to buy groceries or clean my apartment bc i was so ill, i called the salvation army…they told me we just dont do that kinda stuff and i guess she must’ve thought i was weak in my faith or had sinned bc of my illness and poverty situation that she stopped by with numerous pamphlets to put me straight and make certain that i was saved..I have never been made to feel so humiliated nor shocked at her insinuations…Never saw or heard from her again after that…I’m not ill enough for a nurse but too ill to meet my basic needs sometimes so i go without….i’m not a member of a church any longer bc of the things I’ve seen and experienced…i withdrew my membership and all the perks went along with it….so so very sad…I know many are homeless and God has given me a roof over my head, but i also realize that i could lose any of it in an instant…I am so disillusioned by the church and how it operates and abuses/uses the money that i have not returned…this among many other things….and whats worse is Pastors and leaders of these mega churches don’t even think about worse case scenarios like mine…the only thing on their minds is money…certainly not my needs and i would go even further to say probably not my soul either….except for pamphlets!

      • The scripture says the poor shall not cease from the land .it goes further to say that godliness with contentment is a great gain for we brought nothing into this world and it is certain that we shall take nothing out of this is not of him that willeth nor runeth but by the mercy of God yes handwork is good but ask yourself according to the scripture what have you that you are not given and if so why must you behave as if you are not given.always practise the biblical injuctions on giving .give it shall be given to you good measure pressing together running over so shall men give to thy bosom

    • Dear Rich,
      I have to exercise allot of patience and grace when I hear the things you have espoused. I wonder, have you ever been the object of prejudice? I’ll admit, I use to be vocal about much of what you’ve said until I found myself on the other side of the fence…Sickness, aging in America, losing job, losing home, realizing my family what not the Christians they said they were but instead, fair weathered, my friends as well, even Christian brothers and sisters, all who abandoned me when I needed them the most…including leaders in the church who do not want to be associated with the lowly….God have mercy on us! God giveth and God taketh, mostly for our own growth and development but then there is society and the troubles in this life that we all will/have to face….He brought me to the end of myself for many reasons…I pray we all come to the end of ourselves so that we can be equipped for every good work…In the name of Christ and his unwavering love do i say this….Josi

  3. This made me cry. I totally agree !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  4. Dear Marianne,

    This brought tears to my eyes…..If I am not mistaken I do believe
    I had read in God’s word did Jesus not say, the poor you will always
    have among you……I had had an opportunity to help in a park with
    a church group here where I live to help in feeding the hungry in
    a park…..Men Women and Children….They would set up the tables,
    Church Women would make big pots of soup, there would be coffee
    and juice and water and salad and food and desert….A Pastor would
    come and bring a message and two guitar men would donate their
    time for us to sing to Jesus…..Everything would be totally cleaned
    up as we left….Then there was a complaint from someone in the
    neighborhood there…..That now ended it…..Tax dollars at work
    for a park……Then here as I read, and it was in the news….A
    ninety year old man with a heart for Jesus and the poor and down
    and out and two pastors were feeding the hungry in Ft. Lauderdale
    and a law had been passed apparently, and now they were being
    arrested right here in America…..Freedom?????

    Didn’t Jesus say, When you do this unto the least of these, you have
    done this unto me?

    I believe as having read of for over 20 years American Jobs have been
    being sent overseas……Isn’t this possibly about the Globalists I have
    read of….???

    There was a church in West Palm that looked exactly as the one
    you have shown in the picture….many right ups in papers….
    seems zoning was giving a problem concerning it….From what
    I had read, some there were survivors of Katrina back in the day.

    Interesting, as I thought I would share of a story, I had sent this out
    at Christmas time….It had really touched my heart…..
    The title had been….What does a Homeless man do with $100.00.

    The man was given the money….He didn’t know this was a secret
    project by this young boy…..The boy followed him and taped him….
    He had gone into a liquer mart…The boy thought oh yea….The man
    came out with a bag….He walked over to a picnic table, and was
    putting food gifts on the picnic table for others as gifts…The boy
    was amazed….He interviewsed the man….He asked, do you know
    these people, he sais no….then this was his story….He had taken
    care of his dad with cancer and then two weeks later his mother
    was seriously ill…He was taken care of both and unfortunately
    insurance didn’t cover enough and so the home was lost…..
    This is how the man ended up without a home…..The boy, was
    humbled and wanted to give more…..The story brought tears
    to my eyes at Christmas time……

    I just thought I would share……

    Prayers and Love In Jesus

    Jesus did feed the 5,000


  5. Dear Marianne,

    I’m sorry if this is inappropriate for this site, and I am not sure how
    to let you know of two sites I had recently sent out to others.
    maybe you could post these in some other post as I am not sure
    how You do this with Your sites:

    I wish to share them with you….

    One is: End Times Warning – Mazzaroth and The Appointed Times 2014

    Site: The Book of Revelation is Happening Now! You muse This! The 7 Trumpets are Blowing! u-tube

    For You Marianne and others if You wish to post.

    God Bless You and Thankyou
    for all You are doing here….
    Prayers in Jesus

  6. Dear Marianne,
    Thank you for posting such a an important problem we have with many of our churches. I would like to know how much money is actually given to the poor from religious institutions like Kenneth Copeland Ministries, Benny Hill and the other ones on TV. These people seem to live pretty large and are always begging for more money. Too me, if you want to create this type of “big business” that is a wonderful thing to do, but I also am aware of the fact that many of them have private planes, mansions, etc. What would Jesus say about that? In addition, the Catholic Church – would love to see what they actually bring in (we know it’s billions of dollars) and how much really goes to the poor and needy. It is apparent to me that RICH (no pun attended, but how ironic) has never been either poor or needy. Some people’s life experiences happen beyond their control. There are many poor people that are good, hardworking people that are barely making it because they have been laid off of good jobs and never get another one that pays the same-or even close- which is the reason they begin to loose everything. I lost my $63,000.00 a year job in May of last year-received unemployment until the 1st week of January and had to live without any financial help until I started a new job at less than 1/4 of my old salary, on Jan 26th-despite the fact that I interviewed for other jobs consistently throughout my unemployment. I could not afford to take a job for $9.00 an hour or I would have lost my car and house long ago. I actually quit my old well paying job to go work for a new up & coming company for a 5k a year increase. I worked many 10-12 hour days and handled all of their purchasing, insurance, contracts and all admin. The company went from about 1m a year and when I was “laid off” they were over 25m a year. Why was I laid off? Because they hired a couple of younger people paying them 25k a year and now had two people who could handle the work for cheaper!! I am in my 50’s and many companies don’t want to hire people my age. I never thought this would have happened to me. I thought loyalty and hard work, not to mention helping the company grow and prosper would have kept me in my job. I received a ten percent raise a few months before I was “laid off”. I was told that the company was going in another direction- I did nothing wrong- when I was let go, along with a check for 3k.
    I wanted to explain this because I now face loosing everything and am still shocked that they did this to me. I was the only person who knew their computer system and saved them dearly when I went to work for them. I am now in a temp position -not even permanent one yet and face weekly checks that barely get me to the grocery store. In addition, our company has had to close for two days each week since I have been there due to the horrendous snow we have been receiving in Massachusettes and they will not pay me for those days despite the fact that they were closed-you couldn’t drive anywhere under 4′ of snow. So, I may be homeless pretty soon and the comments from RICH made me so mad that I wanted to try & explain my situation. Things happen in life that you have NO control over and I have worked all of my life and never have been on any welfare programs- just this last job loss where I had to collect unemployment. I have no one but myself to depend on. There are good hardworking people that are going through horrible circumstances that they have no control over. Thank you for listening.

    • dear opaldust

      I understand what you are going through…I was laid off when I was 56 years old, and I have not worked since…I had to struggle for 4 years, unemployment on and off until I could take early retirement.

      I had also “saved the day” but there was no appreciation for it.

      I hope things get better for you.

      If your house is not paid for, it might be good to get a a cheaper place.

      I was lucky. My house was paid for, and that helped me a lot.

      • thank you for the kind words, Marianne. I guess those of us with innocent hearts & minds often miss the wolf at the door.
        The shock has still not worn off but I refuse to let hate fester in my heart. I truly believe God sees all & will take care of all injustices in his time & way. I am so sorry that happened to you, as well. May God continue to guide and strengthen you. You’re website has been a great comfort to me for years. I admire you’re many words of wisdom.
        God Bless You!

    • Dear Jesus have mercy,

      I was reading your post and I am so very very sorry to hear of all you have
      been going through…I am so glad you wrote of it here and shared…
      Seems this has been going on around this country to many and people
      hear so little about it…..So little of those trying so hard trying to do
      the right thing ….. Years and Years ago, I had read of Companies
      letting go of folks who had been good workers and many years with
      these companies….They had worked many years and were now at
      the top….They began laying them off and highering younger people
      for much lower salaries…..Writings back then were of age discrimination
      and some of those folks had begun lawsuits of this…..It seems when
      the companies would do this there had seemed to be a jump in the
      companies stocks….Hmmmm

      So very sorry to hear, and here Marianne has brought Praying
      People together in Jesus….

      I for one am so grateful I was lead to this site of Mariannes…

      Praying Carol in Jesus

  7. Whoever closes his ear to the cry of the poor will himself call out and not be answered. Proverbs 21:13

    • Dear Derek,

      Thankyou for writing this and bringing God’s Word to Light…

      I believe I had also read, in the Scriptures, of He who gives
      to the poor as giving to the Lord Jesus….also of the Good Samaritian
      story in the Scriptures….

      Praying Carol in Jesus

  8. How Sad, but true.
    Your comment, he depends on individuals to do it. This is True.

  9. Well said, apaldust, and good passage derek. Sorry about your losses, apaldust.

    I was also vexed when I read some of the things that Rich said that are plain ignorant and border on a complete lack of mercy. I have been homeless before due to no fault of my own. In fact, I was set up to take a fall because I was serving God and the person who set me up at work among other Christians is a high-level occultist who hated me and was afraid that I would blow his cover (true story). Homeless as a result of this, I have been among the poor long enough to know that there are precious few who are really ‘getting it right’.

    For one thing, most churches who serve the homeless are ‘missing it’ (but thank God for everyone who is sincere), ‘tithing a tenth of everything (giving to the poor) but forgetting the weightier matters of the law (which is to actually love the poor)’ so to speak; for another thing, there are many homeless people whose actions and mindsets to me were/are reprehensible: selfish, self-serving, self-centered, feelings of entitlement that others should cater to their needs and serve and take care of them– an oppressive and repulsive mindset to anyone with any kind of taste or sensibility; and lastly, there are many who are homeless of no real fault of their own and who genuinely and sincerely desire and struggle to be re-established on their feet and in the real world, sincere homeless who don’t want a hand-out but a hand-up.

    “Whoever shuts his ear to the cry of the poor will also cry himself and not be heard” (Pro. 21:13) applies not only to the financially poor but to all who are needy. The greater issue (greater than tithing or giving to the poor) is all-encompassing Love which is for all men and not only for the financially poor; it is here ‘the weightier matter of the law’. This Love I have constantly found to be lacking, even in the most sincere attempts to give to the poor, because it generally lacks in day to day interactions among Christians and between Christians and the world. Genuine Christians are identified or discerned or discovered not by their giving to the poor, which anyone and everyone can do, nor by even miracles and wonders, which rarely anyone can do, but by their Love for all men which then accounts too for the poor and needy.

    • arendale

      I agree

      Sorry to hear you had to go through this also.

      I remember a song when I was in high school:

      “They will know we are Christians by our love”

      I wish they still played that song in church now….

      • Good song, Marianne. Carolyn Arends also sang that. In ‘What Matters Most’, Cheri Keaggy sings, “What matters most is how much we love, setting our sights on the needs of our brother, loving our neighbor as we love ourselves, we give to the Lord when we give to each other. Faith hope and Love, especially Love… that’s what matters most.”

        God never made it to be that Love is split up and allotted here and there: a homeless ministry, a deliverance ministry, etc. Love is to be toward God first (“Love the Lord your God with all your might…”), then secondly toward the brethren (“By this shall all men know you are My disciples, if you have love for one another”), then to neighbors or the world (“Love your neighbor as yourself”). If Christians can’t love each other, can we love the homeless and the world?

        When Christians try to allot and apportion Love, it doesn’t flow naturally any longer and so you have anomalous scenarios like this: “And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor… but have not Love, it profits me nothing” (1Cor. 13). I.e. when Love doesn’t flow in the right order (God, brethren, then the world), then it becomes possible to give out much but without loving the one to whom you give. Needless to say, any Christian who loves God will also love his fellow Christians and also the world just as God does. This includes the needy, the poor, and the homeless so that everyone is accounted for.

  10. Well said brother and when you give don’t let your left hand know what the right hand is doing and don’t shout on the roof tops, for your Father in Heaven sees everything

  11. What I see is this. God sees all, we can’t change the TV ministries, like us all they will have to give an account to our Lord on that great and dreadful day, but stand and stand firm, so on that day, our names will be in the book of Life

  12. I believe Jesus had said,
    When I was hungry you feed me
    When I was thirsty you had given me to drink
    When I was sick and imprison you had visited me
    and when you had done it unto the least of these
    you had done it unto me……

    I hope I have written as I have read of Jesus
    Praying In Jesus

    • If only the church would go back to the way it was.

      • Dear Marianne,

        Yes, truly, feel as You….

        I think I have read somewhere that if a church goes to a
        501c3 this now gives it a kinda different thing….from what
        I have read, they can say no to a 501c3….. I am not sure
        of it all but I do agree with what you are feeling….

        I think I had heard of the prosperity gospel thing and how
        this would hurt the church body and I think I had heard
        Copeland had something like many jets like 18 or something.

        I do believe I had read in the word of the how it is harder
        for the rich man and the eye of the camel thing…..

        The Lord Jesus I believe had spoken in the word of
        not storing up treasures on earth where they can be
        stolen and rust, to store them in heaven…..with the
        Heart of Mercy and Compassion to help and Love
        Oneanother and Galatians 6:2 Carry Oneanothers Burdens
        and so fulfill the law of Jesus Christ.

        God Bless You and Yours Marianne
        Praying In Jesus

  13. You are correct. It’s good that you defined for all. For a man or woman, who gives, comes from the heart. God lays it on our hearts to help those in need, what ever it maybe! We need to keep our eyes, ears and hearts open to his voice at all times.
    God Bless You

  14. Thank you for the song Marianne, I too miss hearing it, Beautiful !

    Rich did a poor job defending his richness. I too am a bit angry reading his words. Wow, Judas really !
    I had my loss of income due to being injured on the job, so now early retirement. I am on low fixed income, still [ because I know it is scriptural,] donate to the local rescue mission / help feed the beggars on the street when able by bringing them something to eat. I hurt for them because Jesus does & Now understand the similarity between capitalist / Christian since I read Rich’s personal words.

    When someone says they are a Christian, just what DOES it mean???


    MANY verses cover this command, feeding / helping the poor, giving to those in need, loving one another: Exodus 17:12 * Duet.5:11* Matt 5:16 * Matt 5:42 * Matt 10:5 * Luke 3:10-11* Luke 12:33-34 * John 15:12* James 1:17* James 2:14-17* John15:13* 1John 4:17* 1John 4:19-20* Acts 20:35-38 * Romans 12:13* Roman 15:1* 2nd Cor. 8:9 * Gal:6:2 * Eph. 4:28 * Phil.2:4

  15. Matthew 25:35-40

    For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’

    Read more:

    • amen

    • Thanks for that link, Speak Truth. So much truth there that it can’t be recounted one by one.

    • Open your mouth judge righteously,

      and plead the cause of the poor & needy.

      Proverbs 31:9

      • Amen. “Judge righteously” or as Jesus said, “Judge with righteous judgment.” We are to respond to the cause of the poor and needy as Jesus did:

        “His delight is in the fear of the Lord, and He shall not judge by the sight of His eyes, nor decide by the hearing of His ears; but with righteousness He shall judge the poor, and decide with equity for the meek of the earth” (Isa. 11:3-4). Amen.

  16. Hi Carol,
    You are true and correct with what you wrote. Yes there are many Ministries who seem to have lost course and seem even like a ship with out a rudder.
    I know it even seems hard to find a good church, what I say to this is simple, fix your eyes on things above, seek first the kingdom of heaven (Jesus) he will always guide our path, seek him and his word and he will use each and everyone of us to do his will. It does say even the elect will be deceived (the church) but we should all, judge not, because the Judge is coming soon

    • Dear Linton,

      Yes, the elect Yes thankyou for writing of this….the deceiver the enemy
      as we know He prowls around….I believe as what I have heard of
      Judgement begins with God’s Church and that is where I believe
      it begins….Not I God yes and I am glad to see David Wilkerson
      utube here as I’ve listened to some of His things before…This is one
      I hadn’t heard….Wow the Spirit of God really upon Him…as He
      Preached….and finding a good church home can be difficult….
      Prayers In Jesus

    • I miss ministers like David Wilkerson and Derek Prince who just spoke the truth and walked with integrity (both hearing and doing the Word, not just hearing and only nodding without doing). It seems that the few truth speakers are being taken out of the way and the many liars have gone from a dime a dozen to a dime for every three dozen.

      I currently go to a church whose pastor, like 90% of those that I’ve known, is more than willing to preach and take tithes and offerings but who has cold feet when it comes to taking a stand for the truth or doing what is right. Because of this, he makes wrong alliances (unwittingly and ignorantly makes friends with people who are his enemies) and preaches a gospel that is not whole and has errors.

      God’s people perish where there is no vision, no foundation, no beginning; no cause, reason, or purpose. (Pro. 29:18.) If giving to the homeless or serving the needy will ever go from mostly superficial, soulish flops to Spirit-filled and righteous ministry, ministers, who often dictate the atmosphere and pace of good works among Christians, have to return to the first gospel that was preached at the beginning and walk right alongside it with integrity.

      • I so agree Arendale, especially now in the end times where deception abounds.
        I pray men / women of God arise in this fallen world like David & Derek who both spoke and warned us of what we as believers face today. If not we have the Holy Spirit & our personal conviction to obey what we know is Truth; it will come down to this for us all.

        • It will happen. It seems there’s an appointed time when this type of true ministers will come forth. There are so many patterns in Scripture to what is happening now: first come ‘the people’s choice’ of ministers, then comes God’s choice. A few examples of this pattern in Scripture:

          1. The ten spies vs. Joshua and Caleb.

          2. Eli, then Samuel.

          3. Saul, then David (the most popular example).

    • AMEN !!!!

  17. To all with a heart for Jesus

    I Pray You are Blessed by this site:

    Kat Kerr New Heaven Soaking u-tube

    Blessings and Prayers Love, In Jesus

  18. 1Corinthians 16:1 clearly says the church collection is for the saints. The church cannot take care of people who just walk into the church when people misuse their money for foolishness then have no desire to be saved an want the church to take care of them. Way too many churches have been scammed by unsaved people. The church IS NOT a bank to just pass out money. People mis-understand the scriptures. You don’t spend Gods money foolishly. Personal responsibility needs to be taught to these people. People engaged in sex outside of marriage to get a welfare check because they don’t want to work and continue to have multiple children, now they have problems and expect the church to step in and make their lives better financially. No, it doesn’t work like that. If members want to give to non Christians individually they can and many do but they have families to take care of them also. The government helps them and people will try to see how much they can get away with. Pray for them that they will turn to Christ for a better life.

    • Janc

      Churches can use discernment as to who is actually needy. but to callously ignore the true poor is wrong.

      i am not talking about helping bums, scammers, and rebellious, sinful people. I am talking about homeless moms and children, disabled vets, people who lost their jobs, etc.

      Right now, there is little to NO money allocated for this in church budgets.

      And as for non christians, how do you show the love of christ to open them up for salvation, if there is no love in you for them to begin with? remember, jesus came for the sinner….

      if the only place people can go for help is the government, then they get the message that christ does not care about them.

      • It just seems backwards what churches are created for & what they are most often today. I recently I heard a poll, ministers have the most job satisfaction of any profession. Is it because their job is easy, stress free & they get paid well for it? This I hope, cannot be the case for all churches but according to this study here, churches are more like a tax exempt business then an outreach to the needy both spiritual and physical. Unfortunately this comes to no surprise.

  19. This is such a great post/thread I just had to post one more thing. It’s important also to remember that whether we are sharing the gospel, food, finances, or love with the lost and physically or spiritually poor, that God’s Word never returns to Him void!

    For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater: So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. (Isaiah 55:10-11)

    May God strengthen us and enable us to share the gospel with the poor in spirit as well as the spiritually bankrupt!

  20. Jesus, his apostles, and most in the early churches were poor. Yet those who were less poor could be generous to those who were more poor. And they often warned of the danger of wealth and greed (which became a problem in many of the early churches as well).

    So the worst position in life is to be wealthy and greedy. While the law of Moses says if Israel obeys God’s commands for it, there will be material blessing in their promised land, the teaching of Jesus says his poor disciples are blessed with his new kingdom (Lk. 6:20).

    In his sermon on the mount, Jesus’ beatitudes start with blessed are the poor in spirit (Mt. 5:3). But it is also possible to translate it as “Blessed are the poor in the Spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.” This is closer to its “parallel” blessing in Lk. 6:20. Before Mt. 5:3, “the Spirit” is mentioned five times (twice in Mt. 1 about conceiving the baby Jesus in Mary; twice in Mt. 3 about the approaching kingdom of heaven and the one coming who will baptize with the Spirit, followed by the Spirit descending on Jesus at his baptism; then in Mt. 4:1 the Spirit leads Jesus into the desolate desert to be tested, in the midst of his hunger).

    So as the new king of the kingdom of heaven Jesus himself is the first one to be “the poor in the Spirit,” suffering destitution in the desert, and remaining true to the guidance of the Spirit. And in the future he will give his disciples the Spirit. In the power of the Spirit disciples can follow the example and teaching of their king, who remained poor and taught not to store up treasures on earth, but to give to the poor and have treasures in heaven. Jesus’ gospel is thus good news to the poor.

  21. Lucky you paid for your house first. God truly does work in mysterious ways.

  22. does minister Rick Joyner involve in freemasonry ,

    any proof ?


    God bless

  23. The poor are the poor. Matthew was a tax collector, zachius a rich man, if those who are poor/ money or spirit, see what you do for them, then that his how God can touch them, we were all in sin, that’s how the lord touched us, remember Jesus came for the Sinners, who is anyone to define, God can touch any ones heart and I mean anyone’s . Judge not, for no one is the Judge, but the judge is standing at the door (Jesus) is his name.

    • Gal. – 6:7 – Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

      • very true.

        I just hate to see the victims suffer while the sowers keep the money for themselves

        • If we hate to see this… thinking how much it grieves our Lord.

          • man’s law can attempt to overrule God’s law in the temporal plane, but the word of god endures forever, and man’s law will be destroyed, along with all those who rebelled against the almighty…

            people seem to think that god is not watching. …they are very wrong….the more they do, the more sever the punishment will be.

      • sin is sin…..period.

        • “Sin is sin” is the same as saying, “All sins are the same.” That’s one of those much-believed cliches that is not Biblically sound or true. The Bible says, “Study to show yourself approved to God, a workman who needs not be ashamed, rightly DIVIDING the word of truth” (2Tim. 2:15). It is often necessary to DIVIDE the Word and not just take it as saying just one thing (when you divide a thing, you get two or more parts). The real testimony of the Bible is that there are grades and levels of severity among sins. God calls some sins sin; some sins He calls wickedness; some sins He calls abominations which tend to rank at the top of the list. Here are just several evidences of this:

          1. “If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that” (1Jn. 5:16). There are sins which are so severe that one should not pray for the one committing them; but not all sins are so.

          2. “You shall not suffer a witch to live… When you come into the land which the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominations of those nations. There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, or one who practices witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. For all who do these things are an abomination to the Lord, and because of these abominations the Lord your God drives them out from before you” (Ex. 22:18, Deut. 18:9-12). God killed of entire nations namely because of their occultism which He names as abominations; it is this worship of other gods and occultism that He was mostly addressing when He said, “I will visit the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation of THOSE WHO HATE ME.”

          3. In Deut. 27:14-26 and other similar passages, God names incest, sleeping with animals, homosexuality, the oppression of the poor or widow or needy, taking advantage of the weak or helpless, contempt for one’s parents, and other ‘cursed sins’ as abominations. He says, “You shall not afflict any widow or fatherless child. If you afflict them in any way, and they cry at all to Me, I will surely hear their cry; and My wrath will become hot, and I will kill you with the sword” (Ex. 22:22-24). Be sure that God’s wrath didn’t/doesn’t wax hot for sins such as lying, jealousy, and stealing.

          4. In 2Pet. 2 and Jude, both men talk about a certain ‘grade’ of ministers who are especially abominable in God’s sight. In the OT, we hear about “cursed objects”; but in the NT, we are told about “accursed children”. A cursed object was ‘an object DEDICATED to destruction’; it was often a false god or an object used in occult rituals and lifestyles. Dedicated to destruction meant that its only use and end was to be destroyed which was why God commanded in the OT that Israel destroy all cursed objects along with their owners. “Accursed children” are exactly the same, made for one purpose only and that to be destroyed by God’s judgment: “There will be false teachers among you who will secretly bring in destructive heresies… and bring on themselves swift destruction… Because of them, the way of truth will be blasphemed. For a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber… These, like natural brute beasts MADE TO BE CAUGHT AND DESTROYED, speak evil of the things they do not understand… They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are ACCURSED CHILDREN” (2Pet. 2). In 2Pet. 2 and Jude, we see a different breed of false ministers who are an especial abomination to God. Their sins are not to be listed alongside of the sins of the average fallen minister, because unlike the average fallen minister, for the 2Pet. 2 and Jude breed of ministers, there is no repentance and no turning back.

          Some Christians try to preserve God’s integrity by saying, “All sins are the same.” The fact is that the Bible alone preserves God’s integrity by showing that while all sinners are the same to God, all sins are not the same. Some sins are more abominable than other sins and bring a heavier curse and judgment than other sins. This is rightly dividing the Word of truth.

          • Also recall that there are some sins that God says He especially hates but other sins He leaves out of that special category. The sins of leaders and those in authority also tend to rank above the sins of those under them, and the consequences tend to be greater too. Proverbs talks a great deal about people who fit some sins God especially hates. For instance, Pro. 6:16-19 says:

            These six things the Lord hates,
            Yes, seven are an abomination to Him:
            A proud look,
            A lying tongue,
            Hands that shed innocent blood,
            A heart that devises wicked plans,
            Feet that are swift in running to evil,
            A false witness who speaks lies,
            And one who sows discord among brethren

          • you misquoted me.

            • Most Christians today believe that “all sins are the same”, therefore, when they hear or say, “Sin is sin,” they interpret as meaning or saying, “All sins are the same.” Even if that isn’t what you meant, it was necessary for me to address how people interpret “sin is sin” which is “all sins are the same” and to show how the Bible divides or distinguishes one sin from another.

  24. Yes sin is sin and the scriptures point out there is a difference also in each sin. Without making it too complicated in my life because can be difficult to understand, avoiding all sin, especially anything intentional, repenting when convicted, praying to not repeat it & replace with the fruit of the Spirit.

  25. There must be a work of God in destruction before we are free. We must invite the cross to do its deadly work within us. We must bring our self-sins to the cross for judgment. … To tear [the veil] away is to injure us, to hurt us and make us bleed. To say otherwise is to make the cross no cross and death no death at all. It is never fun to die. To rip through the dear and tender stuff for which life is made can never be anything but deeply painful. Yet that is what the cross did to Jesus and it is what the cross would do to every man to set him free. …God must do everything for us. Our part is to yield and trust. We must confess, forsake, repudiate the self-life, and then reckon it crucified. …The cross is rough and it is deadly, but it is effective. It does not keep its victim hanging there forever. There comes a moment when its work is finished and the suffering victim dies. After that is resurrection glory and power, and the pain is forgotten for joy that the veil is taken away and we have entered in actual spiritual experience the presence of the living God. A.W. Tozer in “The Pursuit of God”~

    • profound.

    • ‘The Pursuit of God’ was the first book I read after I was baptized in the Holy Spirit and God began to speak to me about calling.

      As far as sins go, God definitely invites us to study to show ourselves approved in everything. There are, for instance, people who have a patter of sin who are trapped in that pattern and cannot find a way out (e.g. human trafficked prostitutes who are owned by pimps and forced to do what they do). There are also some who are trapped in demonic bondage and continue in certain sins because the demonic literally drives them (like OCD) to sin. Such people have to be addressed differently than one would address someone who is ‘free’ and simply sins purposely as a free will choice.

      A pastor recently told me what he learned about unforgiveness vs. forgiveness. My spirit acknowledged that what he was saying, though it may sound right to the untrained ear, was actually in error. When I asked God about it, He showed me what the Bible actually says about unforgiveness vs. forgiveness and that there is a distinction between unforgiveness and hating sin (i.e. you might forgive someone for hurting you, but if they continue in sin, wickedness, and wrongdoing, you are SUPPOSED TO hate their sin even if you forgive them). Unforgiveness and a hatred for sin are vastly different (the former bad and the latter a treasure in God’s eyes) but are usually lumped together in our day, and people are often loaded down with a heavy burden of ‘forgive, forgive’ that actually tells them not to acknowledge wickedness and wrongdoing.

      “Forgive” to one person can be encouraging and to another discouraging depending on their experiences and how they interpret the word ‘forgive’, so we should learn how to speak to each different circumstance and situation with the right words and not think that just because the word is in the Bible it will minister healing to every situation. Therefore, whether we deal with sin or unforgiveness or whatever we deal with, we are to be wise about the things of God so that we don’t offend people while trying to help them because we misinterpret what the Bible actually says or misapply the right Scriptures to the wrong situation. Jesus excelled at knowing how to address people so that His words and ministry would bring Life and encouragement rather than death and discouragement; we are to strive to follow His example: “The Lord God has given Me the tongue of the wise, that I should know how to speak a word in season to him who is weary. He wakens Me morning by morning; He wakens My ears to LISTEN as one (still) being taught” (Isa. 50:4). Amen.

      • it sounds like you have learned a lot

        be blessed

        • Thanks. The Bible says, “How can a young man cleanse his way?
          By taking heed according to Your word” (Ps. 119:9). In the same way, how do we learn Biblical principles and the ways of God? By treasuring God’s logos words in the Bible (“I have more understanding than all my teachers, for Your testimonies are my meditation”– Ps. 119:99) and having a listening ear to hear His rhema words in the moment (“He wakens My ears to listen as one being taught”– Isa. 50:4b). Observing these two principles (treasuring God’s Word and listening for His daily words) adds learning to a Christian faster than anything else can.

      • Thank you for this Arendale. What you wrote of about forgiveness & sin helps me to understand it more in my own life, seems I have more enemies than friends. I pray for my enemies, they at times try continue to abuse, assault me. I hate what they do yet love them. Only the Holy Spirit in me can I find this peace a moment by moment process & it has been a process… Sometimes the enemies want nothing to do with me. Most recently, my oldest friend from early high school, actually my high school counselor, unsaved, from her mouth, hates born again believers; tries to continue to taunt me, yet says she loves me. There is no reasoning or Truth in darkness. I have finally severed this, as the Lord has willed it be done, continuing to bless them all as it is written.
        Your words helped. Bless you richly.

        • Thanks. I’m sorry to hear of your trials. You said about relationships with enemies and negative people in your life, “I have finally severed this, as the Lord has willed it be done.” And that is the Lord’s will, because God wants us to have the peace and freedom to freely serve Him.

          Some of what the Lord has shown me about ‘living among enemies’ is that they will and must persecute you if you are in Christ; there’s no way around it. However, unless you must be around them (e.g. work), you should separate yourself from them, because they cannot be your friends due to the spirit at work in them being different from the Spirit at work in you. Here are a few things the Bible says about ‘living/working among enemies’:

          1. “For that righteous man (Lot) dwelling among them (in Sodom and Gomorrah), in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds” (2Pet. 2:8).

          2. “Woe is me, that I dwell in Meshech, that I dwell among the tents of Kedar! My soul has dwelt too long with one who hates peace. I am for peace; but when I speak, they are for war” (Ps. 120:5-7).

          The Bible goes on to say that those in Christ and those outside of Him cannot get along (they must war, because the Spirit and flesh are at enmity) and that the solution is to separate from them as much as you can:

          A. “Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness? And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever… Come out from among them and be separate, says the Lord.” (Read 2Cor. 6:14-18.)

          “If it is possible, as much as lies in you, live peaceably with all men” (Rom. 12:18). If they refuse to live peaceably with you and are hostile towards you, then you should separate as much as is possible. The Bible also explains this unequal yoke when it has to do with a saved and an unsaved spouse living together– that the saved spouse is not under obligation to the unsaved spouse’s choices (but should be free to serve God freely), “for God has called us to peace.” (See 1Cor. 7:10-16.) I hope that is helpful.

          • Yes understood & received. I do not have this turmoil daily now. The relationship I wrote of, I have not spoken to her in over 2 yrs. Yet through other means of correspondence she recently tried to manipulate back into my life. The others, family have died or severed me from their life. Tragic it seems, yet scripturally it is not uncommon. Much comfort in Psalms ~

      • great comment Arendale. Have you ever had a dream where someone who hurt you when you were younger came up and apologized to you in the dream, Someone you have not even thought about in years? This is part of the healing of the Holy Spirit in your life, as they have come to repent, but have no way to apologize to you, because they lost contact with you. It is your duty in that dream to forgive them.

        There is a peace that comes from this.

        • I never had such a dream. Most of the people who hurt me justified themselves unfortunately; some didn’t even know they hurt me because of the circumstances. Forgiveness, for me, was the easiest part of the equation. My concern for those who hurt me was always that they also sinned against God, because when we hurt people we sin against God too. I didn’t require them to come and apologize, but I was concerned if they didn’t make it right with God, because He has the right and power to judge people who harm others. David hurt many people but said to God, “Against You, You only, have I sinned and done what is evil in YOUR sight, so that YOU may be justified in Your words and blameless in YOUR judgment” (Ps. 51:4).

          As for healing, sometimes healing comes as soon as you forgive; other times, it comes later. No matter when it comes, it is a separate work of the Holy Spirit; it is not automatic that healing will come when you forgive someone though your freedom from unforgiveness will. Again, my concern for people who harmed me is that they repent and make it right with God. He, not I, is the One who is keeping accounts on everything, who is always watching, and who will render to each person according to what they’ve done and how they’ve lived. Therefore, to hold someone in unforgiveness (under judgment) is senseless since God has their number and will more than repay them if they don’t repent. The more we understand this, the easier it is to forgive others and let God deal with them as He sees fit, because He will:

          “Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap” (Gal. 6:7). The NLT says it like this: “Don’t be misled–you cannot mock the JUSTICE of God. You will always harvest what you plant.” So, like Jesus said, “Leave them alone” (Matt. 15:14); our part is to release (forgive), because God will measure out justice for justice and mercy for mercy.

  26. She sounds like an abusive and controlling person. Controlling people are troublesome. Once they taste your flesh, they find it hard to let go of you. It’s a good thing that that woman and the rest are out of your life. You’re better off without people trying to work hooks into you and abuse you.

    Since the time of Moses and even before that, God has never stopped saying to people who are abusive to and controlling of His people, “Let My people go, that they may worship Me” (Ex. 8:1). Pharaoh didn’t refuse Israel worship of God while they were under him, but the fact is that while in bondage or under any other ‘master’ (any kind of abuse or control), no one can truly worship God freely; therefore, God desires their release so they can serve Him in freedom and peace and not under oppression. When God sent John the Baptist (and then later Jesus Christ) to deliver God’s people from sin and bondage, Zechariah prophesied and agreed with the same principle:

    “Blessed is the Lord God of Israel, for He has visited and redeemed His people… as He spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets… that we should be saved from our enemies and from the hand of all who hate us… to grant us that we, being delivered from the hand of our enemies, might serve Him WITHOUT FEAR (without oppression or bondage), in holiness and righteousness before Him all the days of our life… Through the tender mercy of our God the Dayspring from on high has visited us, to give light to those who sit in darkness and the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.” (Read Lk. 1:68-79.) Amen.

    Separation from abusive and controlling people is needful for a Christian to freely serve God without fear and in peace. As Paul said, “God has called us to peace.”

    • who is she >

      • I don’t know. Speak Truth never said.

        • Hi, yes I said> ^ my oldest friend from early high school, actually my high school counselor, unsaved.

          If she were my greatest betrayal it need not be mentioned except it was again this week.

          I too am now over what hurt has been done to me by others’ even my flesh & blood; quite severe I may add.

          Only the Holy Spirit can reach inside someone’s heart & perform such a miracle, yield & keep yielding … is all I do.

          Yes Arendale we are surely called to peace, it certainly passes all understanding, for sure.
          I too think of God’s wrath when people don’t think(& fear,)that HE takes account for the sins both hidden & seen, in myself & others. This is where I find my refuge & strength, knowing the Almighty IS Just in everything & form of abuse no matter who take the blame repeatedly in this life & suffered unmercifully in the hands of the wicked. Every true believer has shared in this suffering of Christ. Matt 10:22 * John 15:18-25

          Ah, the Peace of the Almighty ~

          • Yeah, I forgot you said that about the woman.

            Yes, my own family also persecuted and continues to persecute me. God is in the process of helping me to make a complete separation between them and me.

            That’s a good passage from Jn. 15. As you said, every true believer shares and has shared in this suffering of Christ. Thank God for the peace He gives which stays with you and doesn’t go away.

            • Amen.
              Finally for me, my heart no longer aches, longing for an acceptance that will never be, unless they repent & give up their pride of life, then we will be of the eternal family.
              I have learned so much having lost my own worth, all to be immersed in HIS love, this everlasting love. It is why we are created, why we breath.
              The best is yet to come for you, I did not know you too are experiencing this. Why this is not our home, we are just passing through.
              Those who choose darkness, is their will, then so be it, because it has to be.
              The Almighty is full of mercy but every ones days are numbered.

              • My self-worth was stolen away by my family while I was growing up. I found that real acceptance is in Jesus and that my real family is made up of genuine believers. What Jesus said to the Church of Philadelphia in Rev. 3:7-13 reminds me of myself. We definitely are just passing through this world. I know the best is still to come and that God will restore everything on this earth to their original purpose.

                • You & I along w/ countless others have lived through early childhood abuse, it affected my whole life until the last 2 years when deep healing took place & I knew it never was me, but the evil inside them causing me grave harm, (I still need reminding of this.)

                  He that loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
                  Matt. 10:27

                  This verse became the living Word very soon after I was called to salvation, long ago, age 18, sure you know it.

                  When my father & mother have forsaken me, then the Lord will take me up. Psalms 27:10
                  The best is yet to come, what a glorious future is promised us. Blessed Hope we have !

                  • Early childhood abuse affected my life much more than I wish that it had. I am still in a process of healing. Ps. 27:10 has been an encouragement for me too.

                    Most of my abuse was from my family with my dad leading the charge. He basically oversaw the abuse and led my siblings to persecute me when I became a Christian. I know that my siblings were under his control but that they also have to answer for their part in agreeing with him. My dad was under satan’s control but also has to answer for his part in agreeing with him.

                    At this time, God is calling especially my dad to repent. He has been calling him to repent for a long time, since at least ’00, but my dad has continually hardened his heart like Pharaoh and refuses to repent. In the past, God sent two people to tell my dad to repent, but he would not. I was talking to a prophetic minister in Phoenix a month ago and recently another minister in Virginia. Both of them said that they believe that if my dad doesn’t accept God’s call to repentance soon, that God will bring judgment on him. It’s not my place to get in God’s way or pray for my dad anymore; it’s now solely between him and God. I used to say, “Mercy, mercy” all the time, but the Lord has taught me to make room for judgment. My life is only going up as God brings me out of all of this. I look forward to complete restoration.

                    • Seems our life story is similar with of course individual differences. My mother was the source of my abuse along with my eldest sister who never got over her sibling rivalry since I was born(& my mother allowed) both were extremely jealous of me & acted it out in every way possible. My father was not around much, due to his work, etc. I was continually told & untreated as unlovable, the scapegoat. This lead to severe abuse acted out in my teens. My other siblings followed suit, as a child & into adulthood accelerating the abuse when I needed them most, I became ill due to extreme job related stress, etc & remnants of childhood a few yrs. ago. I never wanted their help, except to respect me, they did not; slander, dad had already died.. my mom in 8/13. & immediately the satanic nightmares ceased I had since childhood. They practiced religion but were not LIKELY saved. I was by my dad’s side when he passed in 2008 & stayed vigilant prior, speaking of Jesus in his dying state. My mom refused to see me several months prior to her death, the family estate & my eldest sister in charge was most of the reason. I witnessed to them to repent, then they really turned on me. I prayed for the demon strongholds to be loosed from her soul so she could make a decision 3 weeks prior to her passing. I did not attend her funeral; my siblings set it up this way. I had Complete peace ~
                      *I will pray for a deeper healing for you, it will come. I have been watching D. Wilkerson on utube today,”” When God sets HIS heart on you,” believe this will minister to you as well. It helps to write about it, evenly publicly because we are not alone.
                      We feel so condemned when we were not loved as children. It is hard to know a Father who loves us as our heavenly, but HE does not give up on us & We will know this love deeper & deeper – Amen.

                    • Speak Truth, I’m going to listen to that Wilkerson message. When God sets His heart on you, satan is sure to take note of it and set his heart on your destruction.

                      Our stories are similar, like you said. My mom recently passed about two weeks ago. I thought my dad would maybe become repentant after this, but he hasn’t. He hates God and Christians and unfortunately has no fear of God at all. I didn’t attend my mom’s funeral either and haven’t yet visited her grave. I hope she’s in Heaven but do not know. I lost several jobs because of severe anxiety due to all the stress my dad was putting on me. My dad had the same reaction when my older brother and I told him to repent in ’00: he became more hostile to us and to the things of God.

                      Thanks for your prayers. You said that it’s hard to know God’s Love when your parent(s) did not love you. Sometimes, one person in a family undergoes severe hardship because God has chosen them for something and the enemy is aware of it and attacks them, often through their own family members if he can. It happened to several people in the Bible including Moses, David, and Joseph. Joseph’s blessing, however, is what God intends for people in such a situation– that we are strengthened more and more in character, rather than embittered, through hardship:

                      “Joseph is a fruitful bough, a fruitful bough by a well; his branches run over the wall. The archers have bitterly grieved him, shot at him, and hated him. But his bow remained in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the Mighty God of Jacob” (Gen. 49:22-24).

                      God’s Love draws enemy fire, but He definitely wants to take us deeper and deeper into His Love as you said.

                    • I am sorry about the recent loss of your mom; this could likely bring out more grief in you. I grieved deeply over my father, although he turned on me at times too, he showed me quality attention as a young child,& knew little of all the abuse I was experiencing.

                      I could not reply to your last email, not sure why. But I am going to copy/ paste what you wrote>> Speak Truth, I’m going to listen to that Wilkerson message. When God sets His heart on you, satan is sure to take note of it and set his heart on your destruction.
                      I hope this is a typo because satan has nothing on me! I was bought with a price! The sermon of David’s gets deeper so stay with it.

                    • and I agree we are chosen, no matter what we have gone through in this life, does not compare to the Glory that will be ours. Everyone saved has their story, HE came to save the lost not the self righteous.

                    • Speak Truth, I can’t reply directly to you either; that option has been taken away. I have to reply to myself to post.

                      I haven’t had time to grieve my mom’s loss yet. My greater grief is that I never saw her given the freedom to live her own life or have a social life of her own apart from my dad.

                      I don’t know about you, but the enemy set his heart on my destruction probably before I was born. My dad became his right hand in trying to bring about my destruction. God continued and continues to intervene until this part of my story is over. He promised to protect me from all adversaries and to bring me into His perfect will for me.

                    • Do not give the enemy this power. I think it is most difficult when the abusing parent is still alive, this is where we need to keep our distance & ask the Lord to give us all the forgiveness for them, but pray for spiritual protection, I know because I too was quite oppressed until I finally quit speaking to my mom,>> divinely ordered. So pray about it. Someone recently told me they listened to every David W. vid daily, it changed them in ways they could not describe. He has such a heart for God, knows about the enemy’s oppression & truly loves God’s chosen. The Holy Spirit is upon him, his voice weeps tears. This is a great resource, I will be watching his vids daily too.

                      I will be in prayer with you. Please take time to grieve over your mom, these feelings will build up. Know you are a child of the Most High & the enemy has no power, none! All this will pass, as David W. said when we are afflicted is when we know our Lord is with us. I listened to that vid twice. Bless you!

                    • Yes, David Wilkerson had a heart for God. Whenever I listened to him preach, I seemed to sense almost a hardness in his audience, like they could not hear what he was saying. He seemed almost to always be making an appeal to them. It reminded me of how Jesus’ disciples didn’t grasp anything He said till the very end of His life: “Then Jesus’ disciples said, ‘Now you are speaking clearly and without figures of speech. Now we can see that You know all things and that You do not even need to have anyone ask You questions. This makes us believe that You came from God'” (Jn. 16:29-30).

                      As for the enemy’s power vs. God’s power, it’s important to know that he does have power and not to misquote Scripture. In March ’98, when I was 18 years old, I had an encounter with the Lord at which time He began to reveal to me why there were so many problems in my and my family’s lives. In March ’03, the Lord directed me to fast for revelation of the root of all these issues. As I fasted, He revealed that my dad was an occultist and was behind all the family issues. From that time, many people came forward to confirm what He revealed (my younger brother, my mom, and several Christians by word of knowledge), telling me that the reason I (and my older brother) had constant misfortune was because my dad made daily witchcraft ‘prayers’ against us and our success. The Lord also told me several times directly.

                      The revelation of my dad as an occultist working to keep his family in bondage made sense of all the inconsistencies and problems in our family. He has a front as a Christian, but he has no good fruit in his life whatsoever. Jesus said wolves in sheep’s clothing will be known by their fruits (not their ‘Christian actions’ or ‘Christian words’), and John the Baptist said, “Produce fruit in keeping with repentance” without instead using one’s ‘Christianity’ as proof of salvation. (Read Matt. 3:7-10.) In summer ’12, the Lord showed me a vision in which satan accused me before God. The Lord told me at the end of the vision that God, not satan, will win in my life. He is working with me and two pastors now toward healing. This is why He is calling my dad to repentance (one last time I believe) and completely separating me from my dad so healing can be complete as the Lord works in peace and not in chaos or strife. (Ps. 23:1-3.) I’ll have time to grieve my mom and other things when I have the peace to do so. So, it is important to know the enemy’s power and not to wave him off as irrelevant. There are many Christians struggling with bondage who need the whole truth and not just part of it. The Bible tells us to be alert and not to be unaware of his schemes. Thanks for your prayers; they will be helpful.

                    • Yes, what was revealed about your dad I understand & do not discount the work of the enemy thanks for sharing all this. Thankfully by the grace of God, I am singing a new song & no longer am under oppression but understand yours so very well. I also know what I went through, curses too so yes there are controls of satan but greater is HE within, Amen ! I have a [very] close family member that is a compulsive liar yet says he is saved and bears no good fruit, his wife also. So not negating what you share. As much as it used to hurt I am glad the Lord has a hedge of protection about me now with no way of contact.
                      I am glad you are working w/ ministers & have spiritual support. Happy I could suggest David, we both agree what a calling that man had. Thanks to utube we can still be blessed by his wisdom & Truth today! Yes more like Jesus than any preacher I have ever heard.
                      You will grieve for your mom when you are ready.
                      My prayers are with you. Peace to you in Jesus name.

                    • Thanks for your prayers.

                    • I have lived through so much though most difficult to express here the depth of despair which lingered destructively even after my salvation. This happens when we are still abused, Jesus was never a doormat. A willing sacrifices for our sins, yes, now I get it. We are to carry our cross & follow him> death to self, old nature.

                      Arendale I am most honored to carry the burden with you & agree for your complete healing. It will come. It is most difficult while one is in such a spiritual battle involving family especially parent (s.) for me, I knew no protection or Trust.
                      I have healed yet still have other close but estranged family my soul is burdened for. May the Holy Spirit convict them, my prayer> their salvation.

                    • Absolutely.

                      There was one instance when I lived in a homeless shelter when, one morning at breakfast, such a heavy despair came over me that I thought my heart was going to just stop beating and I was going to croak right there. The Lord then gave me a vision in which a huge, magnificent, white ocean liner was gliding effortlessly across the ocean. The ocean liner was pulling 50 yards behind it by a strong rope a small, wooden rowboat, taking it to its destination. Going through a sudden large patch of fog, the rowboat began to give up and drown, and it went to cut the rope so that the ocean liner could just let it drown in peace. But the Lord told the rowboat not to cut the rope, and sure enough, in time, the ocean liner glided through the wall of fog and pulled the rowboat out with it. Then the Lord told me that He is the ocean liner and I the rowboat and that all I had to do was remain connected to Him, that He would do the rest and get me safely to my destination. Then the despair on me lifted suddenly, and I was totally back to normal.

                      Israel said of Joseph, “The archers bitterly grieved him, shot at him, and hated him. But his bow remained in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the Mighty One of Jacob.” If you ever worked out, sometimes the person spotting you will help you lift the weight so that you’re doing most of the lifting but not all. Jesus does this with us to make us strong; instead of shouldering all the weight, He only covers the brunt of the hardships but lets us feel it still so that we become stronger rather than remain weak. I believe that the Lord’s angels may call me “Iron Heart” by now. Lol. Thank you for carrying the burden with me. We have those who we are burdened for, and when His work is complete, we’ll be able to shoulder and take care of ‘heavy weights’ in the lives of others that are too strong for them. I pray that God will bring your loved ones into salvation and will encourage you by fulfilling your desires. This is my prayer for you:

                      May the Lord answer you in the day of trouble;
                      May the name of the God of Jacob defend you;
                      May He send you help from the sanctuary,
                      And strengthen you out of Zion;
                      May He remember all your offerings,
                      And accept your sacrifice.
                      May He grant you according to your heart’s desire,
                      And fulfill all your purpose. (Ps. 20.)


                    • Beautiful !
                      Thank you for sharing your life along with the personal encouragement of scripture, +.
                      I too have experienced disaster, somehow the smoke around me ceased, I was able to again see my way, just when I thought I was taking my last breath.
                      Iron sharpens iron, we all have to get to the end of ourselves including our personal pain unbearable in life to carry.
                      My prayer these past few years has been: use me for your glory Lord or take me to glory.
                      We cannot not look back (Lot’s wife) at all stolen from us by the enemy; using those closest to us to destroy us.
                      Our purpose here is divine & it Will be fulfilled. When we experience our lowest is when The Almighty is most present showing us our highest purpose. We are never left or forsaken, no never. We experience these things as a blessing really, how else would we know or care? We are given others & bear their burden. We know our family, Our Father. This post & our conversation are uniquely related, on course.

                      Blessed is the poor in Spirit for theirs is the kingdom of Heaven Matt:5 :3

                      HIS church has no walls.

                      In the presence of The Holy Spirit, we are called to Love.

                      We remain anchored to HIM.

                      HE does the rest…

                      I treasure your prayer for me; praising God I have no bitterness now for those who are still in darkness & have done me harm, they are still breathing, there is hope for their soul.

                      In Holy Spirit intercession for you ~

                    • He ain’t heavy he’s my brother.

                    • You said, “Our purpose here is divine, and it will be fulfilled.” This brought me encouragement today after I had a terrible time of talking with two ministers (particularly one) whose hearts are unfaithful to God. You also said, “When we experience our lowest is when The Almighty is most present showing us our highest purpose. We are never left or forsaken, no never.” I experienced a real low point today and definitely felt alone, because I had to again look in the faces of ministers who have forsaken devotion to God in exchange for self-centered living.

                      You talked about having no bitterness for those who wronged you. Thank God the forgiveness is the easy part. I find it plain AMAZING how one can forgive wrongdoing but sincerely hate evil– glad that God has shown me how to distinguish between unforgiveness and hatred for sin. People who have unforgiveness have it easier: they are simply bitter but aren’t constantly oppressed by whatever they haven’t forgiven. On the other hand, when you hate sin or wickedness, then sin and wickedness trouble you ALL THE TIME:

                      “[God] delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked; for that righteous man, dwelling among them (Sodom and Gomorrah), tormented his righteous soul FROM DAY TO DAY by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds” (2Pet. 2:8).

                      One of the biggest burdens on my heart has always been ‘fallen ministers’– ministers who say or think they are devoted to God but whose hearts are unfaithful to Him like the hearts of people committing literal adultery. I always hate seeing or meeting ministers who claim to minister for God but who are self-centered, full of dead men’s bones (no hint of power to live godly lives), and actually HATE God. Nothing else makes my day go south faster or makes me want to just scream or WEEP. I saw it today, and it made God seem GALAXIES away. I know that because of this type of ministers (who are the topic of 2Pet. 2), God seems galaxies away to many, many people. Thanks for your encouragement and your intercession for me.

                    • The Psalms speak of our despair when being attacked, nothing new under the sun. We can only truly look to our Lord in these times & receive the restoration & rest for our weary soul. I do not rely on ministers, etc. hurt deeply & accused many years ago, horribly, ( putting it mildly.) We are most sensitive to attack when we are hurting & give others’ more weight of power spiritually then they are capable of or deserve. Our reliance with no wavering is fixed on the Lord, not the opinions / counsel of man when not Holy Spirit led. We do not need to defend ourselves ( fight within our own power) because it only brings more weariness to our soul; gets us nowhere. Protect / distance yourself from attackers. Marianne has prayers on protection from witchcraft, deliverance she can send, ask her if you feel this need. Praying for you.

                    • And he said, Hearken ye, all Judah, and ye inhabitants of Jerusalem, and thou king Jehoshaphat, Thus saith the LORD unto you, Be not afraid nor dismayed by reason of this great multitude; FOR THE BATTLE IS NOT YOURS BUT GOD’S. 2nd Chronicles 20:15

                    • Thanks for your prayers. In summer ’12, the Lord told me to leave a prophetic church, because they were hearers (and prophesied correctly all the time), but they refused to obey the Lord. He told me He would lead me to believers who both hear and do His will– “The Lord’s people,” He called them. When I went back to a church, He brought this passage to me: “Why do you seek the living among the dead” (Lk. 24:5). The Spirit still ‘visits’ compromised churches (as we see of the seven churches in Revelation), because the Lord is merciful; but the Lord is not in them, because they continually reject His right to rule among them.

                      I would much rather perish with the world than barely make it to Heaven with corrupted Christians, because the world offers something real (even if it is sin), and real sin is better to me than fake or half-baked godliness. So, I have no expectation of ministers. But while the battle is God’s, He never intended to fight it alone without the help of His ministers. He just often has to:

                      1.) “Justice is turned back, and righteousness stands afar off; for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter… Then the Lord saw it, and it displeased Him that there was no justice. He saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor; therefore His own arm brought salvation for Him” (Isa. 59:14-16).

                      2. “‘Curse Meroz,’ said the angel of the Lord, ‘Curse its inhabitants bitterly, because they did not come to the help of the Lord, to the help of the Lord against the mighty'” (Jud. 5:23).

                      As for prayers against witchcraft, the fact is that there are many ‘weapons’ that we use today that either don’t work, rarely work, or partially work. Paul, however, said that the ‘weapons’ that Christians are to use are mighty through God for destroying all satan’s works. If we will rediscover such mighty weapons, we have to at least realize when what we presently use doesn’t really work. There are many people for whom written prayers and present day ministry just doesn’t work. There are spiritual principles that govern areas like witchcraft; these principles won’t yield to anything but the correct application of God’s WHOLE Word.

                      For instance, you hear some people say, “I can do all things through Christ…” But they rarely do anything THROUGH Christ, therefore, they rarely can do anything. Can they then do all things through Christ. Scripture has to be rightly divided and rightly applied. Otherwise, we will keep trying to force things and then claim they work when they don’t. People like Jeremiah, however, were wise to the ugly facts: “They have healed the hurt of the daughter of My people slightly, saying, ‘Peace, peace!’ when there is no peace… Is there no balm in Gilead? Is there no physician there? WHY THEN is there no recovery for the health of the daughter of my people” (Jer. 8). In dealing with life, whether witchcraft or anything else, if we see and call all things as they really are, then we can make real progress.

  27. if anyone feel God leading , pls go to Judge Roy Moore ‘s facebook to support him !

    am praying for him

  28. this is very prophetic !

    Lord have mercy !

    • I believe that issues like gay rights, pro-abortion vs. pro-life, and the death penalty really require God’s wisdom and that lobbying and judges and even the law (the Constitution) are limited in what they can do. When it comes down to it, these issues revolve around people’s different opinions, and it’s hard to come to a resolution. By God’s Law, homosexuals shouldn’t be given the green light to marry; but at the same time, if a nation (or state) passes a bill that gives homosexuals the green light, then it becomes unlawful to resist the law publicly (each person’s home and private life is still their own to agree or disagree with laws passed).

      The Bible says to submit to ruling authorities (and their laws) but not at risk of compromising godly values. In light of this, only God’s wisdom can really succeed when things are stacked this way. His wisdom may just be to submit to state laws that are passed while praying for those who make our state laws. About 95% of the arguments I hear on issues like these are based on individual opinions. I would like to hear something that makes sense, that can keep God’s laws while submitting to state and country laws simultaneously which was what Jesus and His disciples always did.

      • you are wrong.

        we are required to resist and disobey all evil commands of government.

        suppose the government passed a law to allow child sacrifice every day… are you going to go along with it?

        are you going to take the mark of the beast, because it is a law?

        if you were a soldier, would you obey commands to execute other christians for their faith?

        if your government commanded that you abort your child, would you do it?

        “We must obey God rather than men” (Acts 5:29).

        • amen !!!

        • You said, “We are required to resist and disobey all evil commands of government.” That’s right: resist evil commands; do not resist the government itself or its laws. Disobey evil commands, but do not resist the government itself. The government is not saying that Christians must become homosexuals; it is saying that homosexuals will probably be given the right to marry legally. That is in no way getting in the way of a Christian’s freedom to worship God.

          As for laws commanding child sacrifice and taking the mark, again, you are to resist the sin but not the government or its laws. You yourself don’t practice it, but you can’t tell others not to. You can’t force people not to take the mark of the beast; you simply don’t take it yourself. We are of a different government; if we resist the governments of this world, we are acting like we belong here and are trying to make it a better place for us. But we don’t belong here. This should be a matter of resisting sin, not resisting the government (and their laws). When the government commands Christians to be persecuted, are we to resist that law and try to change it? Are we to fight against the government to prevent being persecuted? No, of course not; and that’s the difference: you resist the sin and not the law. you hide from persecution if it’s God’s will; but you don’t try to overturn the law that says Christians are to be persecuted. You can’t prevent a sinner from sinning; God gives free will, and we aren’t to try to impinge on it. The Bible commands us to pray for our ruling authorities so that we can have the peace and good laws we need; it does not tell us to fight against sinful laws that have already been passed:

          “Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves… For because of this you also pay taxes, for they are God’s ministers attending continually to this very thing. Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor” (Rom. 13). We are told to honor our parents even if they are evil; we honor them, but we don’t obey their evil wishes or actions. It is to be the same with all ruling authorities including government: HONOR the OFFICE of authority, but don’t OBEY their laws that are contrary to God’s will.

          Jesus distinguished between how His Kingdom and the kingdoms of the world act better than anyone could: “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, MY SERVANTS WOULD FIGHT to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place” (Jn. 18:36). So, why are Christians fighting the kingdoms of this world to prevent them from what they naturally do? Was Peter praised for trying to prevent Jesus’ arrest? God’s Kingdom doesn’t operate like that.

          • I explained this to you and you do not accept what bible says, from references I gave you

            so all this will catch up with you

            • I have nothing to be afraid of. The Bible says we are to love all people as God does and hate sin as God does; it does not say to oppose the government and its laws, because God doesn’t.

              • god doesn’t?

                where does the bible say that?

                just forget this discussion

                • God set up government. He is a Government within Himself; that’s what it means by saying that all government is from God. Everyone in an area of rule (from older sibling to parents to teachers to bosses to governors to presidents) is in an office of authority and, in a perfect world, is supposed to represent God well:

                  “He who rules among men must be just, ruling in the fear of God” (2Sam. 23:3).

                  But we see first in satan that though God JUDGES evil governments (in His time), He does not RESIST them even if they are NOT ruling in the fear of God. I.e. He does not resist their RIGHT to rule. He judged Sodom and the cities of the plain, but He did not resist them and their free will to sin. In the same way, He will judge America but will not resist their free will to sin. God didn’t resist Pharaoh’s right to rule; though he used his authority (i.e. power) harshly, God didn’t take away his authority/right to rule. The Pharaohs oppressed Israel for 430 years, yet God never resisted those Pharaohs. He did JUDGE ‘them’ finally, but He did not RESIST them. There’s a profound difference:

                  Then the LORD said to Moses, “Go to Pharaoh and say to him, ‘This is what the LORD says: Let My people go, so that they may WORSHIP ME'” (Ex. 8:1).

                  If God was into resisting governments, satan would have been His first target; but satan still has headquarters set up, and there are rules of engagement in warfare so that a Christian cannot just brashly say to satan or fallen princes, “Do this and do that.” In Jude, we see that not even Michael the chief prince over Israel (!!) “dared” disrespect satan’s authority or government. Are we then to disrespect human or angelic governments because we are God’s people and are somehow therefore right in all that we may do. This is why in the OT, fallen angels are still called “sons of God”. God has an authority structure that He sets up; if He RESISTED authority, He would be resisting Himself.

                  God hardened Pharaoh’s heart in order to JUDGE him; He did not go about making plans to RESIST him. God has JUDGED many nations and their governments; but He does not resist them and calls His people to submit to them as long as they do not hinder their devotion to God. As you can see, God brought Israel out of Egypt, because though Egypt did not tell Israel not to worship God, however, Egyptian bondage was hindering the Israelis’ DEVOTION TO GOD: “Let My people go, so that they may worship Me.” Homosexuals in our streets does not hinder our devotion to God.

                  When laws prevent God’s people from worshiping Him, then God’s people are to disobey those laws, but without rebelling. Watchman Nee’s book ‘Spiritual Authority’ explains God’s principles on authority very well in layman terms:

  29. Give to Caesar’ what belongs to ceasar and give to God what belongs to God.
    Obey their laws, ‘but do not do what they do’

    • Perfectly said, Linton. Some Jews hated Jesus because He told them to pay taxes to their oppressors and did not come to physically free them from Rome.

      There was a time when the Lord told me the same thing you quoted above. I was dealing with a fallen pastor who refused to take any godly responsibility in his life. He accused me of something, trying to pressure me to defend myself to him, but I refused to defend myself in any way, because I wasn’t accountable to him. He was completely godless and though I told him to just seek God for the answer he was looking for (Jas. 1:5), he pressured and pressured me. Then I took it to the Lord in prayer, telling Him that this pastor was not going to force me to do what was not in my nature to do (defend myself rather than let God defend me).

      When I asked the Lord how to proceed with this godless pastor, He said to me, “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s and to God the things that are God’s.” I was again surprised by His wisdom. He was telling me that this godless pastor couldn’t seek Him for the truth (Jas. 1:5) and so I should therefore tell him myself; but to God I should render silence (no need to defend myself), because God knew the truth already. The world and worldly Christians (‘Caesar’) don’t understand God’s ways, but God understands His ways; so, I had to act worldly to this godless pastor, because it was all he understood. I believe that the same thing applies to laws of the land and governing authorities; they aren’t saying everyone must practice homosexuality, but if they pass a law for homosexual marriage, then to oppose that law becomes ungodly. Besides, it is not a Christian’s place to pass judgment on sins like homosexuality, because such sins are not sins against Christians but sins against God. God, therefore, alone has the right to oppose sins against Himself. There is nowhere in the Bible where Jesus or His disciples after Him resisted the godless governments and state laws of their time.

      • civil obedience is required if the civil law agrees with God or does not contradict it….for example, taxes, traffic laws….etc

        civil DISobedience IS required if the civil law requires one to disobey God, or it COMMANDS evil.

        homosexual marriage commands evil, and opens the door for couples to adopt children and abuse them, or influence them in the same way.

        • amen

        • Amen

        • Homosexual marriage does not command evil on Christians. If it passed as a law, a Christian can still speak out against it but cannot oppose the law itself and be in right standing with God. You oppose the sin, not the right of the government to pass sinful laws. Daniel and his friends didn’t oppose the laws of the Babylonians; they simply continued to obey God, and they won in the end. Christians are not called to oppose government; it was never commanded in the Bible, because it is not God’s will. So then, how are Christians to act once homosexual marriage is law? Did Jesus ever resist the ungodly laws of the Romans? No, but He resisted the ungodly practices. I cannot find an instance in the Bible where God’s people were told to oppose laws; rather, they were told to keep God’s laws above all laws. There is a difference. I should also add that there is a lot of hypocrisy in opposing laws once they come into the spotlight and neglecting the sins that are done in the dark. How many Christians are fighting against the sex slavery trade, child porn, the snuff film industry, etc.? Are we supposed to wait till it becomes law before we oppose it?

          “We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself,[e] and the wicked one does not touch him.

          “We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one” (1Jn. 5:18-19). WE are of God; THE WORLD belongs to the wicked one. Are we to fight against the kingdoms of this world when we are of another Kingdom. Taking a stand for truth is one thing; fighting against the right of others to practice sin is another. Things are supposed to get worse, and they will.

          • homosexual marriage is evil period. the bible does not say it has to target christians. it just says it is evil.

            the civil obedience in scripture ONLY applied to paying taxes

            this is straight forward

            you said
            I cannot find an instance in the Bible where God’s people were told to oppose laws

            I suggest you read the references I gave you.

            even the apostles disobeyed the laws and commands about evangelizing.

            • There are many other evils we are to stand against and not wait for them to become law before we fight. Civil obedience in Scripture doesn’t only apply to paying taxes; Jesus submitted Himself to Pilate though Roman law didn’t even approve His murder. The apostles and disciples disobeyed laws that hindered their devotion to God; these are the only laws we are to disobey. If they told Christians to become homosexual, that hinders devotion to God and should be opposed.

              I have read from OT to NT, and everywhere I see that God allows sinners to sin (though He punishes them for it) and that unless God tells His people to oppose the government, they are not to, because their government is not of the world. There were no laws passed against evangelizing for the apostles; if there were, THEN they would have disobeyed them. Rather, the apostles were TOLD to not evangelize; there were never laws in the Bible passed against evangelization. We have to rightly divide the Word. God is just and fair all around, both to the righteous and to sinners. He doesn’t revoke people’s rights to sin just because He wants them to live righteously; He only asks that His own people don’t partake in sin, not that they reproach or attack those who choose to, especially not the government whose POWER (actions, works) is often from satan but whose AUTHORITY (office, right to govern) IS from God.

              There are other passages that make it clear that Christian obedience to the government is not just in taxes but in whatsoever case that the government is not hindering devotion to God. Daniel and his friends are the best case here where they were RIGHT to submit to the evil government and laws of the Babylonians but were also right in disobeying any laws passed that would hinder their devotion to God. The Bible is replete with this principle from OT to NT. The principle can be misconstrued and misquoted and misapplied, but it can’t change. It’s about obedience to God, His laws, and His authority; and though not every power (action) is of God or instituted by God, EVERY authority is.

            • Amen on this Marianne.

  30. Daniel did not bow down to the gold statue.

    depend on what they want you to obey !

    i applaud to the Judge , for he is the one who does not bow to the gold statue

    • We’ve gotten off the original topic of this page.

      Daniel’s friends didn’t bow to the statue (nor did Daniel though he was never implicated in that occurrence), and Daniel did not stop praying though they passed a law against it. The early Christians also did not yield to laws that were passed that directly affected their individual and corporate devotion to God. Passing a law that says homosexuals can marry is not passing a law that says that says that Christians must become homosexuals. In other words, this law does not attack a Christian’s devotion to God. It is only when laws or rules oppose your connection to God that a Christian has the obligation to break such a law. If the law does not affect your devotion and connection to God, you can disagree with it and even pray that it won’t be passed (this is actually one reason that the Bible tells us to pray for those who are governing authorities over us), but you cannot oppose it as a law that is in effect.

      All through the Bible, we see that God is HUGE on matters of law and authority, and He doesn’t disrespect or disqualify man’s laws or authority even when they are against His will. He allows fallen angels to rule over countries, regions, cities, families, because He respects law and authority. He does bring judgment again wicked rule and authority, but that is His to do in His way and in His time. Judge Moore is not refusing to bow to ‘the statue’ because he’s taking a stand for genuine marriage and against homosexual marriage. Where he would be refusing to bow is in refusing to agree that homosexual marriage is good or right. Again, while it is a Christian’s place to hate sin, disagree with sin, and pray for lawmakers, it is not a Christian’s place to oppose man’s law system except where a law interferes with his or her relationship with God, with fellow Christians, and with family members.

  31. Perfect!
    We live in a crazy world as we all know. It is the same every where , but you can’t change everything, the time is coming, when we will all be tested, that will be the ultimate test of our faith to God. The lord has shown me many things that are coming, I can firmly see.
    Stay tuned, trying to get a book out!

  32. I stand in agreement with Moore. Thank God, for someone standing in the gap for us. God Bless judge Moore,

    what a testimony he made in the CNN debate , he declare God is the one who define marriage, and only God can define marriage, no other one can change it, in the hour, there are so many ministers/pastors dare to speak the truth of God.

    he is so bold and strong in faith of Jesus Christ, Lord help USA,

    we need more people like him.

    • [ Sodom] & Gomorrah> destroyed by God !
      Deviant sexual immorality> Homosexual sin before the 10 Commandments were given. Genesis 19:4
      We are not far from this.

      But I say unto you, that it shall be more tolerable in that day for Sodom, than for that city. Luke 10:12 Matt. 10:15

      • HI Brother Speak,

        i agree with you.

        we are praying for US with a group of people (world for Jesus , pastor Nita Johnson , ask God send revival to US , turn our heart back to God, turn America back to God ,
        when i see the gay agenda , wickedness want to destroy and brainwash our young generation and next generation, i feel so sad.
        i really Thank God for someone like judge Moore stand up against the evil. David vs goliath. fight the good fight !
        we have big Hope in Him. if we keep praying and repent .

        i read your comment, you mention there were some childhood abuse. i know there are some resource for sexual brokenness healing in christian community. there are many people receive healing from God and set free from gay life style.
        pls go to
        mastering life ministry, and watch pure passion video.
        not only for gay, for all kind childhood abuse.
        devil try use abuse and abandonment to destroy a child life,
        abuse and abandonment./rejection will cause people fall in many kind of bondage, alcohol, drug , homosexuality…….
        lose our true identity in Christ, our true identity and dignity in Christ ,
        is the sons and daughter of Father God, the heart of sonship , this is a fatherless generation. so many orphan spirit people. (i was one , our heart emptiness only Father God Love can satisfy and heal our wound and fill our need. no other remedy ,
        so encounter God’s Love is so important. in those video and resource , God do great job and heal, touch , save and restore His
        sons and daughters back to Father’s house. it is home coming time.

        Glorify God , May you receive the full healing and make whole in His Love , God Bless

        • Thank you & bless you.

          May we all have a deeper healing to preach the gospel to the lost &

          minister to the brokenhearted also in the body of believers.

          From our own brokenness which comes in many forms, by the

          Mercy of our Redeemer, we have become HIS.

    • Thank God for anyone who takes a stand for the truth which is especially rare in our time. I found a Pastor Jeffress who really laid out the Biblical view of marriage and homosexuality without any seeming bias. His approach is sound and fair; he tells the truth without adding or subtracting anything. Here are three links:

      1. Debating a pro-gay marriage Democrat:

      2. Debating a lesbian pastor:

      3. Debating Bill O’Reilly:

  33. Hi,
    I haven’t been following your story, but reading it tells me this, test everything , be on your guard: Matthew 16:11
    Matthew 7:15 watch out for false prophets
    This is why the big churches seem to be flourishing, some’ and I say some are more concerned with theatrical and business type entrepreneur style teaching but show themselves to meek on the surface, I went to a church on Sunday, there was no more than 10 people there, but there were God fearing people. Be watchful!
    God bless you

  34. For you

    • My friend told me today that satan isn’t in the bars, in the porn, in the drugs, but in the churches. satan, he said, is religious, preaches using God’s own words as he did to Eve and to Jesus, and is always found among Christians. Jesus hung out with murderers, adulterers, homosexuals, and all kinds of sinners without finding fault with them. The only people He opposed, found fault with, and sprayed with choice words were the pastors and ministers of His day– the religious leaders– to whom He said, “You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you will do” (Jn. 8:44). Jesus called no one else children of satan but the ministers of His day. I find that the same thing is true today. While Christians hack at the branches of sins like abortion and homosexuality, the roots from which such sins grow remain planted in their own hears, and satan sits on the throne in the churches and the throne of many Christians’ hearts, many of them are of their father the devil and not of the Father God.

      I learned long ago to know Christians, especially ministers, by their fruits. Jesus explained that fruits are not actions but ‘the INWARD heart manifesting in the outward life’. Fruits are not works or words; they are on the INSIDE of a person and are usually hidden to the natural eyes until a person sees the inward heart (then the fruits which have always been manifest on the outside will become visible as well): “Beware of false prophets (those who falsely proclaim that they are of/from God) who come to you in sheep’s clothing (OUTWARDLY seeming Christian) but INWARDLY are ravenous wolves. By their fruits (from the INSIDE out), you will RECOGNIZE them” (Matt. 7:15-16). Jesus went on to explain that Christians who do His will are genuine Christians and that those who may do many ‘good’ and even mighty works but don’t obey Him will hear from Him, “I never knew you.” (Read vv. 21-23.) The genuine mark, therefore, of genuine Christians and ministers are those who LISTEN to God and DO what He tells them as Jesus says in closing the chapter:

      “Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and DOES them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock… But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and DOES NOT DO them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.” (Read vv. 24-27.)

      So, it doesn’t matter whether the church is big or small; genuine believers are known by their actively listening ears and following obedience (or by their genuine desire to obey God which always manifests in a willingness to listen to Him and His opinion on a matter). Hidden within Matt. 7:15-29 is the entire and complete blueprint or study guide for discerning between a genuine and false Christian, so there is no need for a Christian to be in the dark when it comes to discerning false prophets/ministers, being watchful, and testing everything. A listening ear (i.e. active listening with the intent to obey (1sam. 15:22)) is the authentic mark of a genuine Christian or minister as it was of Jesus (Isa. 11:3-4, Jn. 5:29); without this mark, every other sign is suspect and should be scrutinized: “He who has ears to hear (‘an actively listening ear’), let HIM hear (obey)” (Matt. 11:15, Rev. 2:29).


    What Alabama’s Roy Moore Got Right

    • he has guts to do the right thing

    • yes, according to news, A lawsuit was brought against Judge Moore in 2003 to remove the monument but Moore refused even after a federal appellate court ruled against him. He was later removed from office over the affair.

      But, nearly 12 years later, he was voted back into the chief justice post, giving him the platform he has today to oppose gay marriage.

      he really a fighter !


    In All Blogs by / February 18, 2015

  38. And the lord said unto the servant, Go out into the highways and hedges, and compel them to come in, that my house may be filled. Luke 14:23

    The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. Luke 4:18-19

    I always make it a point every year to not overlook the poor either in my witnessing (sharing the gospel or handing out gospel tracts) or giving financially to ministries which I know help reach out to the poor.

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