Jesus as the Son of God
Is Jesus the Son of God or God? Is the Trinity as described by the church accurate? Who did Jesus say He was? An answer especially for Muslims and Jews.
CLICK ON LINK TO GET PDF FILE:
jesus-as-sog-4-internet-version.pdf
See other related links as well:
https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/can-people-%E2%80%9Csee%E2%80%9D-you/
https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/did-jesus-fulfill-the-jewish-scriptures-for-messiah/
https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/face-to-face-with-god/
https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/jesus-%E2%80%93-before-and-after-earth/
https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/why-did-jesus-have-to-die/
https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/which-word-is-which/
https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/why-jews-reject-jesus%E2%80%A6unfulfilled-prophesies/
Heaven Awaits 
The writings and study are a work of art ! Can u confirm if it is your own handi-work and so to grant permission to copy it. As for the extra “discussion” at the end of the writing, you quote Jesus in John’s gospel saying ” The Father is greater than I”..but this of course is when Jesus was a man and no powers of his own, but only by the Father’s will.
I wonder please if you could please re-consider your statement that followed …”Father God is greater, and the son and the spirit represent his power on earth.” Please see 1 John 5:7 (from the KJV) as basis of my suggestion of re-phrasing.
In his merciful grace….
Derek in UK.
Derek
I thank you if this is helpful at all. I wondered for years how to resolve the issue with nonbelievers how Jesus can be God, that the Father is also God, but there is only one God. It annoyed me that the old testament did not specifically explain this, and so left so much confusion that there was either unbelief, or confused Christians that could not explain their faith to others.
It took me years to come to the conclusions I have. Much came from reading the scriptures daily and looking for clues. Occasionally, I would hear something on TV that would confirm an impression, so I am sure there are some segments that are not 100% original. But it is the synthesis of ideas that is most likely original, but I could be wrong. There could be others out there that think the same way. I just do not know about them.
Jesus said the “Father is greater than I,” so I took this at face value. The scriptures also say that all power has now been given to the son, so it really is something that we will only really understand to a better extent when we get to heaven – how all this works.
You may use the information to help others. Please do not sell it. I am offering my thoughts for free, because we only have a few years left before I think something may well happen. I would not want any thing to slow down the free transmission of the Word to bring others to salvation. As you share it, you of course, may add your own perspectives.
Be blessed
marianne
ps to Derek
It would mean a lot to me, as a thoughtful gesture, if when you shared this with others, that you would mention my name and this website. This way, more people can come, and benefit from what might be here for them. Thank you.
Hi Marianne.
Thank you for the email and reply. All though I am a believer of Christ and acknowledge he is the Messiah, how can I explain this to my non christian friends, family, and some who are Jewish that he is the Messiah? The question comes up including me that whhere is the peace as prophesised in the Old Testament and where can I find that he was to come twice in the OT/Hebrew Book to share with my Jewish family and friends?
This also helps me in my continuing growth, learning about Christ.
To do my best in whats right, not what humans want, but what Our Father wants.
Thank you again.
God Bless
Sonia,
I know the heartache having those you love not believe. Read the study I wrote on the Messiah making 2 trips to fulfill prophecy as predicted in the Tenach.
Yeshusa (Jesus) came first as savior or redeemer to fulfill one set of scriptures. This was to regain the kingdom of God which had been stolen by satan in the garden of eden. This had to be done first. It was seen by Daniel that the son of man would hand over this kingdom to the saints, since they were to to inherit the kingdom and rule as priests and kings. Jesus did this with the apostles.
He will come again in the Moshiach role to bring the peace, now that the kingdom has been handed over to the saints. This is will as satan wages war with the saints to destroy the kingdom. The ancient of days will make a judgment in favor of the saints, and it is then that Messiah will come to do the Father’s will, destroy the enemy, and establish peace on earth.
you first have to understand WHO the messiah is and his divine relationship to the Almighty, before you can understand the 2 fold plan to redeem, and then bring peace to mankind.
see this link to the next page, or look at the side menu for “did Jesus fulfill the jewish scriptures for messiah?”
Thanks to Bro. Thomas & Pastor Beyer for their necessary witness of the reciting of deliverance prayers of breaking gen. curses off the signed legal signatures of Ms. Hodge-Powell & John Hodge as the family is entitled to compensation, restitution, monies.
Thanks to the faithful witness that assists Pastor Beyer’s wise decisions. Please share about the entry written above.
That applies to breaking off bloodline curses too from the Win Worley deliverance prayers.
Oh Lord God, I thought this would have more substance than quoting some NT verses and bringing them into relation to Old Testament prophesies. However well-meant, this “answer” lacks completely in any understanding of modern exegesis. Dear Marianne, I’d recommend you reading R. Bultmann’s book about Jesus (simply called “Jesus”) to start with. Wish you good luck, David
P.S.: What I think about the historical person Yeshua ben Joseph, that he was kind of a prophet, but he surely didn’t see himself as God, nor did he try to redefine the traditional anticipation of a messianic personage.
Yeshua ben Joseph is a true prophet and that is that.
Dear David,
This was my first post, which is not a complete explanation. I have added other posts on here too. One reason is that I do not want to exceed a certain length, or I will lose the reader. So I divide up different aspects of a topic, and I break it down more. Look to the side menu.
Jesus never said he was God. Only the Father is God. He said he was the son of God…that God was his father. He pre-existed in heaven with the Father God before he came to earth.
see…
I keep adding…maybe someday this will help people
blessings
marianne
Marianne,
I enjoyed your posting immensely! I have my own thoughts, a lifetime of learning, seeking, hungering for the truth. I often wonder if there are others who think as I do. I desire, more than anything, to open people’s minds to the truth about God. We were led to believe it is all a mystery we cannot begin to comprehend, but faith is not blind. Faith sees differently.
God bless,
Beverly Savinski
Hi Beverly,
God bless you. It looks like the Holy Spirit has you on fire for the truth of the Word. It is an awesome experience, isn’t it? There are others on this site just like you. 🙂
blessings
marianne
You are in great error here. If I understand correctly you are denying the trinity and that Jesus is God. If so, then you need to repent of this.
Matthew 1:23 NIV
“The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel” which means, “God with us.”
John 1:1 NIV
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 5:18 NIV
For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
John 20:28 NIV
Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
Romans 9:5 NIV
Theirs are the patriarchs, and from them is traced the human ancestry of Christ, who is God over all, forever praised! Amen.
Why on earth would you deny the trinity and the fact that Jesus is God? Usually it is the cults that deny the existence of the trinity and the deity of Christ.
As a side note, what is your view regarding law versus grace?
How do you think that you are saved? By faith in Christ or by works?
Dear Contender,
I sounds like you did not read the references before you made your comment, so I will not repeat myself.
There is a Father, Son, and Holy spirit. It is the interpretation that is debatable. Most Protestants just follow what the Catholic church teaches, and do not put much thought into it.
There are many, many more scriptures that identify that the Father is God alone. Then Jesus is Lord over us, as his son. Jesus himself said the Father was greater than he was, so that means they are not equal, no matter what comments human beings make.
Take a look at this post also.
1 Cor 8:6 says
Here, it is clear that the Father is the source of all things……and Jesus is the intermediary through whom God worked.
In John 17, Jesus prays to the Father in the garden:
This should make it very clear.
Jesus had a heavenly nature, the Father shared his divinity with him, so he could do the redemptive work, but the Father is still God.
The scritpures you give are out of context. Jesus was not called Immanuel, he was called Jesus. Perhaps, when he returns, he will be called this. Many Jews have names with the word God in it. Samuel is one example. For some reason, Jesus was not named Immanuel when he was born. That is for a future time.
None of this denies what Jesus did for us. Jesus is still to be honored as the son of God. But it is the evaluation of that title, and his nature, as compared to the Father, that is being discussed.
It is like discussing the relationship between a king and a prince. Both are royalty, but only one is King.
Ready now to cooperate with Jesus the Christ to give this believers human soul back the Ruach to relieve her suffering spirit from me.
Iam wondering also about this topic, because iam writing with a witness jehova.
why cant we believe, there are 2 persons? a father and a son?
Jesus is the creator (1 Cor 8), but he is not the father, who obv gave him the permission do create everything.
Not?
Hi Silvan,
I think they just believe in Jehovah, but that is all they know.
Jesus is Jehovah. His divine nature is given to him by the Creator Father.
The Father was the source and power behind creation, but Jesus was the active agent in the process.
Look also at what I said to Contender.
Christ succeeded where Adam left off, Adam did not “fail” Yahweh, it was Eve his first wife that failed. She drew Adam into sin and the fall of humanity. Christ conquered sin and death by his 40 day fast without bread and water and the temptation in the wilderness which NO MAN has done since He left earth.
Everything in creation was made for Him, that is part of the divine mystery.
Yahweh gave Adam dominion over all the animals in creation.
The LORD gave Christ dominion over all His church and creation.
Christ is head of everything in creation, there is no other way to the Father except through Him.
He guided Moses through the trials of the first Israelites. This is also a small portion of His divine mystery to be revealed, when we see Him again, He will teach all of humanity the Torah and reveal the Love of the Father.
Until then all we have is each other, prayer and to do His will.
The churches should gather on the Sabbath, not Sunday.
michael
I would say that Christ conquered sin and death by his death on the cross and resurrection, not by the 40 day fast. I would say that the fast was his preparation for his ministry.
Yes, thank you so much, you confirmed my thoughts!
You are terribly wrong concerning this issue as well as the trinity.
Even the early church fathers knew that Jesus was God. The scriptures I gave were not out of context. The most simple example I gave you was:
Matthew 1:23 NIV
“The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel” which means, “God with us.”
This scripture is very clear that Jesus is God in human form. God incarnate. You said “Jesus was not called Immanuel, he was called Jesus. Perhaps, when he returns, he will be called this.”
Yet the scripture clearly says that Jesus is Immanuel which means God with us. This verse speaks of the virgin birth so it is clearly referring to Jesus. When Jesus returns he will be King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
I don’t understand why you are denying the reality of Jesus being God. I find this very disturbing. You are free to think what you want but others’ need to be protected from this false teaching.
You are also implying that Jesus is a prince and not a king. Nothing could be further from the truth. Revelation scriptures attest to the fact that Jesus is King of Kings.
Revelation 1:8 NIV
“I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”
Revelation 17:14 NIV
They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings–
Revelation 19:16 NIV
On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
Early Church fathers before the Catholic Church was formed under Constantine also believed that Jesus was God and in the trinity.
74 AD The Letter of Barnabas:
“And further, my brethren, if the Lord [Jesus] endured to suffer for our soul, he being the Lord of all the world, to whom God said at the foundation of the world, ‘Let us make man after our image, and after our likeness,’ understand how it was that he endured to suffer at the hand of men” (Letter of Barnabas 5).
Ignatius a disciple of the Apostle John and bishop of Antioch:
“Be deaf, therefore, when any would speak to you apart from Jesus Christ, who was descended from the family of David, born of Mary, who truly was born, truly took a body; for the Word became flesh and dwelt among us without sin”
“Look for him that is above the times, him who has not times, him who is invisible”.
In his letter to Polycarp Ignatius stated, “Jesus is God, God incarnate.”
“We have also as a Physician the Lord our God Jesus the Christ the only-begotten Son and Word, before time began, but who afterwards became also man, of Mary the virgin. For ‘the Word was made flesh.’ Being incorporeal, He was in the body; being impassible, He was in a passible body; being immortal, He was in a mortal body; being life, He became subject to corruption, that He might free our souls from death and corruption, and heal them, and might restore them to health, when they were diseased with ungodliness and wicked lusts.”
“…God Himself appearing in the form of a man, for the renewal of eternal life.”( Epistle of Ignatius to the Ephesians 4:13)
“For our God Jesus Christ, was, according to the appointment of God, conceived in the womb by Mary, of the seed of David, but by the Holy Ghost.” ( Epistle of Ignatius to the Ephesians 4:9)
( Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians 2:4)
“For even our God, Jesus Christ, now that He is in the Father”.
Polycarp a disciple of the Apostle John and bishop of Smyrna:
“O Lord God almighty…I bless you and glorify you through the eternal and heavenly high priest Jesus Christ, your beloved Son, through whom be glory to you, with Him and the Holy Spirit, both now and forever”
“Now may the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the eternal High Priest Himself, the God Jesus Christ, build you up in the faith…”( The Epistle of Polycarp to the Church at Philippi, 12
Iranaeus bishop of Lyons. 145 years before the Council of Nicaea. ‘Iranaeus Against Heresy’:
“But he Jesus is himself in his own right, beyond all men who ever lived, God, Lord, and king eternal, and the incarnate word, proclaimed by all the prophets, the apostles …The Scriptures would not have borne witness to these things concerning Him, if, like everyone else, He were mere man.” (Against Heresies 3:19.1-2)
“For with Him were always present the Word and Wisdom, the Son and the Spirit, by whom and in whom, freely and spontaneously, He made all things, to whom also He speaks, saying, ‘Let us make man after our image and likeness'”.( Against Heresies, 4:10)
Theophilus bishop of Antioch referred to in Luke 1:3 and Acts 1:1:
For the divine writing itself teaches us that Adam said that he had heard the voice but what else is this voice but the word of God, who is also his Son.
Melito of Sardis around 177 AD:
Being God and likewise perfect man, he gave positive indications of his two natures: of his deity, by the miracles during the three years following after his baptism… he concealed the signs of his deity, although he was the true God existing before the ages” (Anastasius of Sinai’s, The Guide 13).
Athenagoras in 160 AD:
“they hold the Father to be God, and the Son God, and the Holy Spirit, and declare their union and their distinction in order.” (A plea for the Christians.10.3)
Clement Of Alexandria in 190 AD:
“I understand nothing else than the Holy Trinity to be meant; for the third is the Holy Spirit, and the Son is the second, by whom all things were made according to the will of the Father.” (Stromata, Book V, ch. 14)
“There was then, a Word importing an unbeginning eternity; as also the Word itself, that is, the Son of God, who being, by equality of substance, one with the Father, is eternal and uncreated.”
“When [John] says: ‘What was from the beginning [1 John 1:1],’ he touches upon the generation without beginning of the Son, who is co-equal with the Father. ‘Was,’ therefore, is indicative of an eternity without a beginning, just as the Word Himself, that is the Son, being one with the Father in regard to equality of substance, is eternal and uncreated. That the word always existed is signified by the saying: ‘In the beginning was the Word’ [John 1:1].” (fragment in Eusebius History, Book 6 Ch 14; Jurgens, p. 188)
“This Word, then, the Christ, the cause of both our being at first (for He was in God) and of our well-being, this very Word has now appeared as man, He alone being both, both God and man” (Exhortation To The Heathen, ch 2)
Tertullian respected apologist around 200 AD:
“The origins of both his substances display him as man and as God: from the one, born, and from the other, not born” (The Flesh of Christ 5:6-7).
“God alone is without sin. The only man without sin is Christ; for Christ is also God.”(The Soul 41.3)
“We define that there are two, the Father and the Son, and three with the Holy Spirit, and this number is made by the pattern of salvation…[which] brings about unity in trinity, interrelating the three, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are of one substance and power, because there is one God from whom these degrees, forms and kinds devolve in the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit.” (Against Praxeas p. 156-7).
“The connection of the Father in the Son the Son in the paraclete (Holy Spirit), produces three coherent persons, who are yet distinct one from another. These three are one essence, not one person, as it is said, ‘I and my Father are one,’ in respect of unity of substance, not singularity of number.”… “Yet we have never given vent to the phrases ‘two Gods’, or ‘two Lords’: not that it is untrue the Father is God, the Son is God, the Spirit is God, each is God.” ( Ante-Nicene fathers vol.3,p.621, Against Praxeas.)
“We believe there is but one God, and no other besides the maker of the world, who produced the universe out of nothing, by his word sent forth first of all, that this word, called his Son, was seen in the name of God in various ways by the patriarchs, was always heard in the prophets, at last sent down, from the spirit and power of God the Father, into the virgin Mary, was made flesh in her womb, and born of her, lived as Jesus Christ…”
The scary part of all of this is that if you don’t believe that Jesus is God then you may be in fact worshipping a false christ. I think you need to erase the heretical teachings that have influenced you and start seeing the scriptures for what they really are.
Hi Contender,
You are equating teachings of the catholic church with scripture. THE catholic teachings are not scripture, and sometimes are not backed up by scripture.
Even Jesus said he was not equal to the Father, but this is contradicted by the catholic church, and continued by the Protestant faith. The trinity is not “equal.”
You are not reading the references I gave.
The analogy of the king and the prince was to relate the relationship of the Father (king) with the Son (prince). Both are royalty, but only one is king. However, after the redemption, Jesus was elevated to his own kingship on earth.
You do not understand my definitions because you have not read the links.
Jesus is divine, but the Father is “God.
The words of Jesus himself, as he prayed to his Father in heaven:
The Father is God, and Jesus is Lord.
it’s obvious the computer or satellites are keeping track of time according to Matthew 4:10 this celestial being ready Now to give this human soul back.
Believe it, or not, but all views have indeed a backing-up by scriptures.
We should not blame us one another to be wrong and have no faith, as long we all dont deny the power and divinity of our Messiah.
I think most of us know our god, and are aware of him, and got a new spirit through faith in Jesus sacrifice, ressurection, repentance and the law of love.
Fact is, Yeshua is being called both: God AND man
Its a beautiful secret.
I have no fear i could lose him, because i already know him.
Maybe we should collect all scripture about both sides and make a table.
I mean:
Exists only one identity/person/character? – ?
Or two, a divine family?
Hi Silvan
I agree. We all love and honor Jesus as our savior and redeemer and Lord. This discussion is more focused on how heaven is organized- if there is a hierarchy within the “trinity.”.
Marianne, just today i said according to Isaiah 61 I am totally free but daily for almost 3 years asked for godly help b/c soul was just floating in astral space. until the enemy has become me even merging with my face to become a false light which was addressed. i’m really suffering b/c i was isolated from true believers a good person that fell shouldn’t be tortured. Church pastors & people tell me to ignore but messages are spirit guides pychics get to them first. Its sad that the spirit of blasphamy & imposter escaped these pastors for months. emails/calls are rerouted b/c the witches think its funny. Confident i’ve always been human. Told one pastor that satan was hiding during 1st deliverance he ignored me & sent a notice to never return. Told several operating in wrong spirit, again ignored. Recently one put Jesus as Lordship to dismantle these powers to relieve but obviously shortlived. How do they ignore satan as a female for so long. I told them about the breathing and heart issue. Would like at least one day of rest. The Messianic people said i was welcome in their sanctuary even though they know everything. Even asked to be monitored for 12 or 24 hours. Asked to unbind this town so they will see behind this veil. Contacted Joseph Jordan that said its all a delusion. People with the hacking technology have a spirit called Boice/Boyce. According to Matthew the God that satan serves is greater
Marianne when i went to Maryland to see my mom after Ms. Deanne McNamara previously called me from my spiritual/physical tomb in February 2011 to visit Erma Hodge these problems didn’t even exist.
Tracey
If you have accepted Jesus, then he lives within you, and you can fight this problem. You have the authority yourself to crush serpents and scorpions and all demonic spirits. You have to understand and believe in your authority. Go to Jesus, not man, for deliverance. You and Jesus together can do this.
Tracey, Satan appeared before Christ in the wilderness as a female and “tempted” Him just as Adam and Eve were tempted in the garden. So I agree with you. Another reason why men should be filled with the Holy Spirit, to resist such temptations, however you are never tempted way beyond what you can handle, in theory and in law.
Michael,
There is nothing within scripture that would indicate anything regarding “gender” in respects to satan when he appeared to Yeshua. This can only be viewed as speculation on your part.
I did read the first two links you gave. I am just using the Bible to support what is true which should be enough. The Bible can stand alone and your interpretations are not in line with what the Bible teaches.
Jesus is God. I have given you scriptures to prove this. I have also given you quotes from the early Church fathers that are pre-Catholic but yet you still don’t listen. Read those quotes again. Some of those believers were actually disciples under the Apostle John who wrote the Book of Revelation. How you can even say this is Catholic is beyond me.
You seem to think that being God and the hierarchy are mutually exclusive which is not the case at all.
Jesus is God otherwise he wouldn’t have been able to resurrect himself.
John 2:19 NIV
Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”
Acts 2:24 NIV
But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him.
These two scriptures may seem to contradict each other but not if you understand that Jesus is God.
Jesus is God because only God can forgive sins.
Mark 2:7 NIV
“Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”
Why do you think that the Pharisees were so angry with him and wanted to kill him and accused him of blasphemy? Jesus resurrected Lazarus. Only God could do that. Jesus performed miracles. Again, proving his divinity.
You seem to say that Jesus is divine but yet at the same time you are denying his divinity. If you believe that Christ shares the divine nature with the Father God then how much of the divine nature does Christ share? 10%, 30%, 70%? If you are a human and your ancestor goes back to Adam and you share in his human nature do you only share a portion of this human nature?
Another very simple human example that proves that the trinity is true regarding God and Jesus is regarding a husband and wife. A husband and wife are equal. They are both 100% human. Yet, the husband is head of the wife. This does not mean that the wife is inferior to the husband since both are equal in Christ. Submission from the wife to the husband and from Christ to the Father does not imply that they are inferior. Submitting was done for a specific purpose. There was a reason behind it.
In the same way there is a hierarchy in the Godhead. This does not negate the fact that Jesus is God.
You don’t seem to understand that Christ co-existed with God as the Word and according to John 1 the Word was with God and the Word was God. It doesn’t get much clearer than that. Also, the scripture where Jesus is referred to as Immanuel meaning God with us. How are you ignoring these scriptures?
Also, don’t you know that Christ humbled himself by coming as a man in the form of Jesus?
You said, “The Father is God, and Jesus is Lord.” However, read the following scripture:
Matthew 11:25 NIV
At that time Jesus said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth,
Notice how the Father God is referred to as Lord? According to you only Jesus is Lord, not the Father.
There are also numerous Old Testament scriptures that refer to God as Lord. Too many to list here but you can look them up for yourself all the way from Genesis onwards.
Matthew 22:44,45 NIV
” ‘The Lord said to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand
until I put your enemies
under your feet.” ‘[e] 45If then David calls him ‘Lord,’ how can he be his son?”
The Lord said to my Lord translated as God said to Christ. Who sits at the right hand of God? Christ does. How can Christ be God’s son? Because Jesus is God.
Psalm 2:2 NIV
The kings of the earth take their stand
and the rulers gather together
against the LORD
and against his Anointed One.
Exodus 6:2 NIV
God also said to Moses, “I am the LORD.
Psalm 18:31 NIV
For who is God besides the LORD ?
And who is the Rock except our God?
Psalm 18:46 NIV
The LORD lives! Praise be to my Rock!
Exalted be God my Savior!
Who is referred to as the Rock in scripture? Christ is.
1 Corinthians 10:4 NIV
and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.
In conclusion, Christ humbling himself does not negate the fact that Jesus is God as proven in the following scripture. It is more a matter of humility and submission and not of divinity.
Philippians 2:5-11 NIV
Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
6Who, being in very nature[a] God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature[b] of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
8And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
and became obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
9Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.
I’m sorry but I’m not going to take your revelations over the scripture. I test everything against the Bible. The Bible is my ultimate source.
Finally, Jesus is God and no amount of misinterpretation of the scriptures can negate this fact.
Dear Contender,
I think this has to do with definitions, more than anything else.
Jesus considered the Father his God. The Father, he said, was greater than he was.
So the “highest” divine being, the Father, according to Jesus, was officially “God.” Everyone is supposed to pray to just the Father.
Jesus and the Holy Spirit are divine, but do the will of the Father.
What people said about Jesus does not supersede what Jesus actually said about himself and the Father.
This has to do with who Jesus is. Jesus is God. If you don’t see that then how can you be a believer in Christ? What are you basing it on?
Christ is the intercessor between God and man. You can pray to the Father in Jesus name but you can also pray directly to Jesus. Since you have a relationship with Jesus as a believer it would seem normal to be able to communicate with him.
I gave you tons of scriptures to prove that Jesus is God but you still are blind to the truth. It doesn’t matter how much proof I can provide because you refuse to believe.
An example of prayer to Jesus from the Bible
2 Thessalonians 2:16,17 NIV
May our Lord Jesus Christ himself and God our Father, who loved us and by his grace gave us eternal encouragement and good hope, 17encourage your hearts and strengthen you in every good deed and word.
1 Corinthians 1:2 NIV
To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be holy, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours:
Hebrews 7:23-25 NIV
Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; 24but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25Therefore he is able to save completely[c] those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.
Dear Contender
I understand the scriptures given. The Father is God. Jesus is the son of God.
John 14:9 NIV
Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
John 8:58 NIV
“I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”
Matthew 1:23 NIV
“The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel”[a]—which means, “God with us.”
If your (material) father was god, you would have his characteristics (appearence).
If your (spiritual) father was god, you would have his character traits.
Jesus had all character traits from father, because gods spirit was “pressed” in the flesh given by maries side.
It has lastly been found blood under the place where HE died for us. This blood has been tested, and it has 23 female chromosomes and one male chromosome,
and the blood was living! And, moreover, it IS living brethren!
Jesus had the mind and the character of father – the SAME character ! Therefore we can say as well, god was HERE –
because….it really doesnt matter the question about father and son in this case, because they are the same character…. spirit… person…!
We can say it was God at our fingertips.
In the heavens, the other side, the spiritual world, there are counting just spiritual things, like just “who you are” .
Your spirit, your character counts for being “seen”, judged and interacted with, that means really 100% free and 100% true communication and living together!
Your body is there, but not important.. on the other side, the side we will see very soon because the tribulation is at our doorstep,
…on this side, the “mindset” is else..just like Jesus’ thought and was his whole life, AND also like we are being thinking in “extremecase”, namely putting on Jesus 100%.
We shall be just in him. Than we dont recognize the material world anymore. Than Jesus character/spirit is pressed in us, we are born a second time, for to be able to see the spiritual
world and not anymore the material. We are made and born for that. We are a true child of god. A real new father. Material world doesnt count anymore.
Therefore also, he speaks, we shall no one call father, but him.
The same applies to our earthly father, one could think…
Yes, and I will continue to rejoice, for I know that through your prayers and the help given by the SPIRIT OF JESUS CHRIST, what has happened to me will turn out for my deliverance
Philipians 1
Yah’shua the Messiah
(Jesus Christ) and His Place in the Godhead
http://www.nccg.org/379Art-Yahshua_Godhead.html
I am interested in knowing all members of God’s family. It’s a shame that people still dont know all the members of God’s family. Some say they are son and hold ghost.
Please gimme a complete list God’s relatives namely:
1. Name of GOd’s father
2. Name of GOd’s mother
3. Names of God’s Sons
4. Names of GOd’s Daughters
This is to start with, if you know of other members then feel free to write their names too,
Suzy.
hi Suzy
God (called the Father) has no father or mother. He has always existed. If he did not have this quality, he would not be god and creator.
We are God’s sons and daughters in a physical way, because we are his creations.
But we are only spiritual sons and daughters if we have a spiritual relationship with him.
The first one to have this relationship with the Father is Jesus, who lived in heaven before he came to earth. He had a son-father relationship with God, which is why he is called “the Son.” Jesus was the first “spiritual son of God.”
We can also have the same spiritual relationship with God, if we accept Jesus, his teachings about the Father, repent of our sins against God, Jesus personal sacrifice for us, and love God.
Jesus is the word made flesh. The word as always existed. I do not agree with the, “The first one to have this relationship.”
Sorry.
Leatherneck
I was trying to make this concept easy to understand for a nonbeliever.
“Jesus is the firstborn of the spirit children of our Heavenly Father, the Only Begotten of the Father in the flesh, and the first to rise from the dead in the resurrection, ‘that in all things he might have the preeminence’ (Colossians 1:13-18).”
–
I have always been curious about this and I look forward to asking Jesus the question…how did G-D come to be? Regardless, I know He exists beyond any doubt whatsoever…just wanting to go a step further and now ask Him, “so….where did you come from” ? 🙂
According to Collossians 1:13-18, this fallen acknowledges the divinity/authority of the Christ over all. This fallen will cooperate with archangels Michael & Gabriel as my victims need their help. out of false kingdom.
Do you want out of a false kingdom, false church? Is that what you are asking Tracy?
In your article (on PDF), you said Son is “identified” with Father. The expression ‘being identical’ means ‘being same’ (as in Sabellism).
A human being is one body and one soul but Jesus is one body and two Archangels. Jesus is Archangel Gabriel and Micheal. He also have a holy spirit in himself.
The Ortodox
In my opinion, this must be answered first; What is the concept of Hashem?
The Lord is One.
Jesus is the Everlasting Father, who is Spirit, according to my Bible.
I am a father.
I am also a son.
I am a teacher.
I am a preacher.
I am a servant.
I am a sinner.
I am a saved man.
I am an accountant.
I am an artisan.
I am a computer engineer.
I am a husband.
I am a friend.
I am spirit, I have a mind and I live in a body.
Yet I am just me, I don’t suffer from MPD and neither am I a crowd.
Trinity: the Bible does not teach it (unless you take metaphors to be literal) and neither did the early church. It entered Christianity to broker peace between the Eastern and Western churches by a monk in Istanbul around 284AD.
Trinity: it gets complicated in Revelation when we see:
* a lamb, standing, as if slaughtered. I grew up on a sheep farm and know that slaughtered lambs don’t stand around looking freshly butchered.
* lamb has seven eyes. never seen that, either.
* now these seven eyes are the seven spirit of the Lord. Trinity body count now is eight, not three.
* The Father observing this tableau from His throne. Body count now is 9, not 3. (I did pass Math in all grades from K-12.)
Figurative speech, metaphors get translated into literal meaning by fundamentalists and this distorts Biblical truth.
Now read Isaiah 9: 6 and John chapter 1.
There is a secret which is obvious. It is revealed through Scripture and obscured through false religion.
The mere term “The Godhead” doesn’t sit well with me, it makes me feel uneasy and I sense it as being an insult to the Most Holy. It sounds disrespectful and possibly irreverent.
Yeshua, better known as Jesus, is our Everlasting Father and it is He whom I worship, adore and love. Let us not call Him funny names and refer to Him as “The…..” as if He isn’t even present!
A pastor, living an irreverent life, spreading slanderous stories, breaking up families, expressing his lust for women, also taught that Jesus was not God. This is quite a popular view held by many Christians in my country.
During a time of utter crises and despair, I asked Jesus to reveal Himself to me, for Who He really is. First, He showed me through being with me, in ways I cannot describe, neither in my own mother tongue, nor in English, as the treasures of grammar and vocabulary are in deficit when it comes to express that kind of experience. After a few years, He also opened my eyes to Scripture, proving that He is the Father, no less!
Why did it take a few years (2007 – 2009) to grasp this? Because my own mind was biased, veiled behind five decades of having been fed this religious error. Only when that veil was lifted did I see what the Bible really is teaching us.
Metaphors are not literal.
Figurative speech is just that.
Office, duty, function, attribute does not add like 1+1+1=3, it means that 1x1x1=1 instead.
Jesus, as Everlasting Father, who has the Spirit of God, who is Spirit, is just the physical manifestation of the unseen God.
Where He “sits at the right hand of the Father” means that He has a position of authority. God fills the universe(s) through being Spirit and nowhere is an arm or a leg to be seen. Just as a thousand years and one days are the same, Father Son and Holy Spirit are the exact same.
Not three persons as taught by my former reformed, calvinist religion, which is a mental prison that I had escaped from. There was an earthquake and my hands & feet were unshackled, the doors flew open and yet I remained fro two decades to proclaim my liberty, was hated for that and hence had to flee in accordance to Revelation 18, that is.
Now, I teach reborns from a different faith and lead them into His grace and circumnavigating the traps set by keepers of the law, who disgrace Jesus by returning from grace to be yoked under the law.
Those who negate, nullify and disregard His grace, making His suffering to be a romantic fool for love. No, let is rejoice in having been liberated from the bondage of the law, as accusation is only possible if the law is in force. No, let us rejoice instead, living in the grace delivered in Person by Yeshua, Jesus the Christ, Isa to the Muslim, who set us free, so that we can escape the punishment of death. His flesh became our bail money. That is why He had to come in the flesh, to redeem flesh with flesh.
Ever since, the curtain was torn, access is open and free. You have unlimited minutes to call Him now, unlimited bandwidth to browse His presence, to email and chat online, no restrictions,ever, to those who believe and endure to the bitter end.
As therein lies the sweetness of Jesus, not in painting faces.
Perfect.
Our Lord is Perfect.
He also is Love.
He needs nothing as He is complete.
Love has no meaning unless it is shared.
To share Love, He created us.
Creation was perfect.
We were created in His image.
He is Spirit and so are we.
He is sovereign and so are we.
Sovereignty means we can make choices independently.
To make choices, there has to be options.
This is why Evil exists, so that we can choose.
Creation was perfect.
There were no seasons, only 300 days of equal length.
It never rained and earth was covered in cloud.
Animals did not fear man, as both were herbivores – Genesis teaches that even lions ate grass “given as meat unto them.”
Man was given choices and warned of the consequences of making the wrong ones.
Despite perfection to his avail, man chose Evil over Love.
Earth was cursed as the result.
We are reminded of this curse every 28 days.
There is decay and effort.
There is war and terror.
There is disease and disability.
There is disaster and turmoil.
There is litter and waste.
There is conviction and eternal suffering.
Man was evicted from Paradise.
Exiled.
The Word teaches that hell was never intended for humans but for Satan and his fallen angels.
Now, our Love has to see His beloved go to waste, go into the eternal pit of condemnation and torture.
He sent prophets and judges calling man to obedience, to return to the Father.
Man deliberately rejected His approaches.
He gave laws but man could not comply.
Laws were only given to prove to man his own inability, his own incapacity to obey. Laws were not to start a new religion.
Man either could not follow the laws or chose not to. The law proved man to be imperfect.
Man was lost.
Man needed redemption.
Man needed restitution.
Man needed restoration.
God proved to man that mankind could not save itself.
He then took the burden upon Himself, to liberate man from sin and death. Still, a selfless act of love.
He came to us as “the Son of Man”
He shed His blood, as life is therein, to redeem us.
He ended ritual sacrifice as He became the sacrifice.
He ended the law as He became the law.
He ended the Sabbath as He is the Sabbath.
We are now with Him forever, if we are reborn, as we have eternal life.
Eternal life is resting from sin, Jesus is our rest.
If we love Him, we will rest in Him.
If we love Him, His “law” will rule our hearts.
The Ten Commandments were perfected through the New Covenant.
Love your Lord with all your heart.
Love your neighbour like yourself.
Love will rule out murder and strife.
Love will rule out corruption and greed.
Love will rule out dissent and divorce.
Love will rule out partiality and bear unity.
Love will heal wounds and not wage war.
Love will never covet.
Love will not gossip or slander.
Love will not manipulate.
Love will overcome fear.
Through Love, Jesus Christ restored us to the legal status of innocent perfection prior to sin.
We are deemed to be perfect.
We have been liberated.
We have been set free.
Why do His children riot?
Why do His children go on strike?
Why on this earth do we not accept the Love that offers us Grace?
Why do we not accept our pardon?
Why do we torture and maim, be it in body or in spirit?
Let us accept His grace.
Let us return to Him in Love.
Let us Love Love.
As God is Love!
Out of Love, let us be led by His Spirit
Out of Love, let us obey His will
Out of Love, let us bring Him joy
Out of Love, let us draw others to Him
Out of Love, let us line the deep pockets of the death robe with jewels
Jewels like yourself
Jewels such as others like you
Let us go to Him
Let us embrace Him
Let us become one with Him
As He wants to be One with us!
Such is the need of Love
Complete Love.