Red Heifer Ready for Third Temple
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If she passes inspection, a sign that Moshiach / Messiah is coming.
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Source:
The Jewish Standard
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New Jersey is home to a Red Heifer.
Why is that significant, you ask?
Well, it’s a key component to rebuilding Jerusalem’s Holy Temple.
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"News of what appears to be a parah adumah, fully red cow, on a small farm just outside of Lakewood has been attracting increasing attention.
"Interest has been heightened by her rapidly approaching second birthday, at which point the cow would become permissible for this extremely rare halachic phenomenon.
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"Somebody from Brooklyn called and offered me one million dollars for her, but I told him that she’s not for sale.
This is a gift from Hashem," said owner Herbert Celler.
"When he asked me what I’m going to do with her, I told him that I’m going to be the first in line when Moshiach comes."
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"A parah adumah, or red heifer, is necessary to produce the ash needed for the ritual purification process, essential to performing the service in the Beis Hamikdash.
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"Since the cow’s birth, on April 2, 2013, which fell on Isru Chag Pesach, Mr. Celler says that he has been extremely vigilant in ensuring that she should not engage in any work or carrying an load, that could halachically disqualify her, as well as doing his utmost to prevent her from incurring any blemishes.
"My workers know that no one is allowed to even touch her," he said.
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"A member of a breed of cows indigenous to the Netherlands, she weighs between 500 and 600 pounds, which is on the lighter side given her breed and age.
Born on the Celler farm in Howell, her parents appear to be regular black cattle, although her mother, known as Bonnie, does have a tinge of red in her back legs.
"Celler said that many ambitious livestock breeders have attempted to create red heifers through genetic manipulation or other artificial means, but that this cow’s red-brown eye color confirms her authenticity.
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An electric fence prevents visitors from getting too close, but based on this writer’s unprofessional investigation she certainly appears totally red.
No name was given.
"If you have to bring her for a korban, I don’t want to get attached," Celler explained.
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"The son of Holocaust survivors, Celler has lived in the Lakewood area since 1961 and attended the Betzalel Hebrew Day School.
He operates a sheitel outlet, known as Classy Hair Design, the profits of which go to aid poor Lakewood families.
"A lot of people have been coming to see her.
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Some Rabbis from Israel are supposed to come check her out sometime soon," he said. "This is a gift to the Jewish people."
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Source: http://www.collive.com/show_news.rtx…
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Heaven Awaits 
[…] here for […]
Red Heifer Ready for Third Temple | Heaven Awaits said this on April 1, 2015 at 3:13 pm |
There won’t be a physical third temple building.
David,
Of course there will be a third temple, but not until Jesus returns. Ezekiel describes this millenial temple in detail and Christ will rule from there for 1000 years.
But the Jews will not build it before the Second Coming as many believe. The abomination of desolation does not involve a physical temple. It will be different from the first abomination which was only a “type.”
As for this heifer, sometimes a cow is just a cow. This same thing happened in Texas 20 years ago and everyone got real excited. Turned out the only thing the animal was good for was burgers and steaks.
We’ll have to wait and see on this one…
Since we are on the messiah temple theme, I wanted to bring to attention about who will show up in this temple, as we all know.
There have been some actions going on that maybe some have missed. I would like to point out Erdogan, a man who seems to fit that of the antichrist, a power who is to come and create peace and chaos.
I spend my days on shoebat as I find what is said there to be interesting and well thought out and spoken of things which have come to light.
Now, let me note, I followed the whole “Obama is the antichrist, or this guy, or that guy and the Vatican is the whore, babylon” or whatever people believe, but this was before I was shown a serious path of what is to come, and now it makes more sense logically than any guess or bad interpretations by YouTubers and websites alike.
But now, the more I see what Walid is pointing out, the more it makes sense, and let me say a serious evil power, high chance of being antichrist is here. He and others have now claimed him to be God and a holy man himself.
Just take a look and understand the possibilities. And the fact that Saudi Arabia has been putting together a 10 nation Confederacy which will burn her to the ground.
Time is ticking faster and faster
http://shoebat.com/2015/03/30/shocking-muslims-are-now-declaring-erdogan-as-god/
http://shoebat.com/2015/03/31/shocking-and-amazing-erdogan-has-now-declared-himself-to-be-god/
http://shoebat.com/2015/03/29/erdogan-is-already-the-caliph-of-the-muslim-world/
I agree with you and walid.
It is just crazy to see how fast anything can unfold. It was like we were kind of waiting so long and wondering when something would happen, or trying to put it into perspective and see if it fit anything.
But one day it just showed up and now it is moving at incredible speeds. It was like, wow, it just came out of no where, and it is crazy how many people cannot see who is who, nor do many want to even pay attention to middle eastern problems anymore and they will miss out on who is about to drop a serious power ball on a lot of people
[img]http://shoebat.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/er.jpg[/img]
as his power comes “on” the power goes “off” on the nation that worships him
http://beforeitsnews.com/prophecy/2015/03/stunner-massive-power-outage-hits-turkey-as-erdogan-is-declared-god-by-muslims-video-2468230.html
yes….now we have 2 ego maniacs…one in Turkey and one in America
I read something about a red moon this Pesach, indicating the coming of the Messiah or at least the end of an era and the start of a new one. What do you know about this? Keep on blogging in a free world – The False Prophet
Well, the red moons are a debatable topic, some believe in the tetrads and some don’t. But if we want to group it as historical actions, these four will signal end some crazy things, and at the rate things are developing it could definitely point to a major set of changes.
Christ’s return? Not happening because of a red moon, too many events need to happen first, but I feel they are relaying a heavy message.
I wonder what that message is going to be. What if nothing happens?
Well, it could be any message, but it always seems to say, “hey a judgement is upon you”
There were seven times it happened throughout history, well, which has been spoken of. And this time, look how the events are unfolding in the middle east. 10 nation Alliance (spoken of in the bible). The middle east is becoming more and more restless. Objects being built for a temple which isn’t even built or started. A man showing extreme power, people calling him God, understand that Saudi Arabia is the whore and will burn completely as men weep over her death and so much more. Iran will cause Saudi Arabia to burn, and now they are on the verge of getting nukes.
The dots are connecting slowly you just have to find them.
Check out shoebat.com as well as searching heavenawaits, you will see a restlessness
Hasn’t there always been restlessness and signs throughout the centuries. Haven’t there always been men predicting the end or coming of an era? What makes it different this time?
Well of course, the world has had restlessness, the world was a lot more brutal than it is today. But in today’s society, there is a restlessness which is growing, a feeling which is increasing, a lot more brutality which has been increasing as well.
There as a lot of people who have always tried to predict the end, and they were wrong as we can see, but this is because they set numbers, dates, specific times and tried to rely on their own understanding instead of Gods understanding and word. But also they didn’t do their homework either.
I remember reading just last week about how they thought the solar eclipse would be the end of the world, judgment day, and I knew instantly they were wrong, because there is a time line laid out in the bible and specific things to look for and many do not do it, they begin to take understanding into their own hands, and then they find out they are wrong. And then they come back saying, oh I was wrong this was off and that was off, even after they said “God showed it to me”
And I’m like….really? Dude, come on, you are as false as they come. You see, you are going to find people like that, and you will find too many of them, and the more that are wrong, the more people will just continue to blow the next guy off who says the same thing.
But, when you have an understanding of events, you can piece it together yourself and know what times are near. People have been saying forever that the end is soon, but who looked at the restoration of Israel in 1948? If they did, they would know this is the beginning and that a generation would not pass because the Lord would come back before then.
Who looked into the 10 nation confederacy? Well, some did not and seemed to had not figured out that it IS a part of the end times, and guess what? It is here, it has happened and the Ottoman empire (the healed wound) is coming back soon. And to control Islam is to be in power, especially with such brutal people who don’t hesitate to cut your head off of you don’t believe in their religion. That is an easy way to martyr those who will stick to the gospel and not follow the Antichrist. An army of brutal people will kill with ease
The troubles are coming. Those who allied with Israel are now against them, and it is easy for the media to brainwash people to hate Israel.
A caliphate is here, a man that now millions are calling God is here, and how holy he is, and whatever else they say about him.
I could go on for a long while about this, but there are very clear distinctions and timelines that tell you what is coming. No these false prophets, not your Harold campings, not your people who think the rapture comes twice, no human ever will predict the end, but we can point out the obvious, and if yoiu know enough of the bible, you can determine what is true and what isn’t.
I am still learning myself, and I’ve been a person who has followed silly crazy things on YouTube, but then I just did some reading and stopped following people who think they are some special person who knows the end, or knows exact dates and what not, they don’t
But what I do know is that the beginning started with Israel being a state again and I do know that they will expand their borders, and they will fight their enemies and I know the world is growing more against Israel everyday, this is clear and the 10 nation alliance is clear and a lot of other things are clear, but I cannot, and no one else cannot tell you when events will take place, you must put the pieces together and see what is happening, and you will gain an understanding which is hard to explain to people, much like I cannot explain now how you just feel these things, you can see the points laid out, but they are spread out and out of order, but a lot of the word and prophecy has been here since Israel became a house again.
The seals, vials, temples and stuff have to happen, keep an eye out, there is a lot of tension going on and a lot more chaos and restlessness and this is something you just feel and know about the times and prophecy from the bible. We are a lot closer than we have ever been to the end, but when does it come? It is an estimate at best because we have some proven things happening already, but we don’t have enough things yet to make a guess.
Thank you for your elaborate answer to my question. Clearly you have been reading into these matters, you have given it lots of thought and know a lot about these things.
The problem I have with predictions is that they would mean people have no free will and the future is set. Things are bound to happen no matter what we do. This would take away a certain meaning to our lives, wouldn’t it? It would take away any need for action either good or bad as it would not, could not change the future.
It does not mean I am saying there is no God. It’s just that if the predictions are right, there is nothing we can do about it. Everything that is going to happen is inevitably going to happen and everything we do here to prevent these times from coming would be useless and in vain as the future has already been made and planned out. If that is the case … then why bother at all?
false
the red heifer is predicted in bible to be needed for the next temple. this is a very rare event, so people get excited when one is born
I may not have been clear, or misunderstood something (always room for error with whatever I do :D)
What did I say and printed a response? 🙂 I am always open for a better
I mean there will be one huge red moon to speak of the return, but that is at the sixth seal and we haven’t even come close to it yet. These tetrads do relate to things. It won’t happen exactly when a tetrad happens, it could be after, but keep your eyes open.
Not trying to convince you, but if you will go the route of tetrads, you may find a pattern.
false
red moon, lunar eclipses, happen every year. so do solar eclipses.
this pattern has occurred in history before of 4 in a year
but this time they are falling on jewish holidays, so people feel there is a greater significance there and they may be a sign, or omen, of something bad to come
Yes, that is what I heard. What do you think? Is this an omen? Or shall we just have to wait and see?
since it has happened before and jesus did not come back, then I cannot say what will happen this time.
jesus did say to look for signs in the sky but he did not say what they were.
rev 6 at 6th seal says moon red, sun dark, stars fall from sky, and there is an earthquake…that is the only one I am sure about.
notice that solar eclipses and lunar eclipses do not naturally happen at the same time.
So it could well be nothing is going to happen and this clearly was not a real sign. Thank you for your answers and time. Have a prophet-able day – The False Prophet
I can only hope and wish that Jesus will return and show us what a mess we made of his world!
owner’s video
Numbers 19:1-3King James Version (KJV)
1 And the Lord spake unto Moses and unto Aaron, saying,
2 This is the ordinance of the law which the Lord hath commanded, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring thee a red heifer without spot, wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came yoke:
3 And ye shall give her unto Eleazar the priest, that he may bring her forth without the camp, and one shall slay her before his face:
Question: “What is the significance of a red heifer in the Bible? Is a red heifer a sign of the end times?”
Answer:
According to the Bible, the red heifer—a reddish-brown cow, probably no more than two years old which had never had a yoke on it—was to be sacrificed as part of the purification rites of the Mosaic Law.
The slaughtering of a red heifer was a ceremonial ritual in the Old Testament sacrificial system, as described inNumbers 19:1-10.
The purpose of the red heifer sacrifice was to provide for the water of cleansing (Numbers 19:9), another term for purification from sin.
After the red heifer was sacrificed, her blood was sprinkled at the door of the tabernacle.
The imagery of the blood of the heifer without blemish being sacrificed and its blood cleansing from sin is a foreshadowing of the blood of Christ shed on the cross for believers’ sin.
He was “without blemish” just as the red heifer was to be. As the heifer was sacrificed “outside the camp” (Numbers 19:3), in the same way Jesus was crucified outside of Jerusalem:
“And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood” (Hebrews 13:11-12).
The Bible does teach that one day there will be again be a temple of God in Jerusalem (Ezekiel chapters 41-45).
Jesus prophesied that the antichrist would desecrate the temple (Matthew 24:15), and for that to occur, there obviously would have to be a temple in Jerusalem once again.
Many anticipate the birth of a red heifer because in order for a new temple to function according to the Old Testament law, a red heifer would have to be sacrificed for the water of cleansing used in the temple.
So, when a red heifer is born (which is quite unusual) it might be a sign that the temple will soon be rebuilt.
First of all, the 3rd temple will be the millenial temple of Ezekiel, built after the Second Coming. The Jews are preparing for this temple as far as the temple fixtures go but not the building. They also do not know where to build it. The second temple was completely destroyed and it was not on the “mount” which the Romans built for their headquarters and barracks. It will be further south, lower and closer to the Spring of Gehon. So only the messiah will know exactly where the next temple should be built.
So my question is, will Jesus, the lamb of God who was sacrificed for our sins, expect the Jews to perform a ritual sacrifice in the new temple? Was not His sacrifice sufficient?
This will not be a Jewish temple so much as a Christian one. It will operate differently than when the Jews were using it. Sacrifices will no longer be needed. So who needs the heifer now?
Maybe there will be a petting zoo in the holy of holies? 🙂
bible indicates a temple of some sort during the tribulation.
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) matt 24:15
And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. Rev 11:1
no it won’t be ezechiels, but something is there…
since the jews are still jews, not christians, they will try to offer a sacrifice..since they expect to use this heifer if approved.
at least the holy place will be there, and the abomination takes place.
sacrifice of christ is sufficient for sins….other sacrifices may occur during feast days….for reasons of praise and thanksgiving….
check back with me after he gets here, and I will tell you more.
http://www.nbc.com/ad-the-bible-continues
The Red heifer is not going to set up a literal Kingdom it has already been set up. Its called the “Kingdom of God” and is a Person Named “Jesus Christ” = Matt 6:33 and also “Immanuel”= God with us and “King of Kings” is Ruling “right Now” in the hearts of men and woman who will believe in HIM> the 3rd phase of the covenants etc. etc. is not going back to a heifer covenant. Moses law was annulled for the New Testament.=Paul said it and I believe it. The New Testament started at the resurrection of Christ and then HE entered into His Sons and Daughters of God. That is the 3rd. Temple – as I have said many, many times. I believe what Paul says. We are the Temple of the Living God. Who lives in us. Read about it in Revelation. The Dry bones have already risen.
No literal Stone building coming down out of Heaven. Killing the red heifer is a good deed but does not cover for Jews sin. As we are all Jews. As Paul says. Judgement is at our doors the revivals are over to most part. Maybe a remnant will come it. Its a lot more interesting to write in to Yahoo post and tell them about Jesus Christ. It will do more than trying to teach back sliden and sleep walking Christians the truth. I hardly ever hear a Christian come up and say something in the defense of Jesus Christ . Christians are scared to death to challenge the enemies. The Absolutes are here NOW and like in Jesus day He came as a “Thief in the night”. God never changes His Patterns. He is the Same yesterday today and forever. Heb. 13:8 You make it any other way you will miss the target completely.
Holy Jerusalem- Are saints and Holy ones. Look it up yourself wake up.
40 hagios — holy — saints — Holy One – most holy thing, a saint
53 hagnos the same as 40; — pure — chaste — clear – NOTE the Temple is clear and cannot be seen. This is the sea of glass around Gods throne.
1) exciting reverence, venerable, sacred
2) pure from carnality, chaste, modest, immaculate, clean =SAINTS
2282 thalpo — cherish (2)
1) to warm, keep warm
2) to cherish with tender love, to foster with tender care – Its the Bride
AV — Jerusalem
1) Jerusalem, denoting either the city itself or the inhabitants
2) “the Jerusalem that now is”, with its present religious institutions, i.e. the Mosaic system, so designated from its primary external location- Jesus destroyed this temple in 70 A.D == and that ended Moses era. their judgment was justice.
3) “Jerusalem that is above”, that is existing in heaven, according to the pattern of which the earthly Jerusalem was supposed to be built; metaph. “the City of God founded by Christ”, NOW ” wearing the form of the church”, and after Christ’s return to put on the form of the ((perfected Messianic kingdom)) Ezekiel’s Invisible Temple. This return was the Flesh body that rose , Then Holy spirit put in to the Believers and empowered by the Holy Spirit. = Ezekiel’s Invisible Temple
4) “the heavenly Jerusalem”, that is the heavenly abode of God, Christ, the angels, saints of the Old and New Testament periods and those Christians that are alive at Christ’s return.= of that day and our day — In Christ we all have to die – Heb. 11
5) “the New Jerusalem”, a splendid visible city to be let down from heaven after the renovation of the world, the future abode of the blessed. = Yes the world of the O.T was renovated and became “the abomination of the desolation of Israel”” by Christ return and was annulled completely in 70 A.D. At the Coming of Christ – Jesus said Himself YE will see THIS generation talking to HIS disciples Matt. 24 is over already fulfilled – He told them in Matt. 24 –THIS generation we see the Temple destroyed. So why would Christ bring a stone temple back down here. And start sacrificing cows etc. etc.
From ALL the above talking about the Old Jerusalem and the New Jerusalem. = Gal. 4 — When John wrote this epistle He knew exactly what was going on. He had seen the fall of Jerusalem before it happened. Cause Christ Himself told His disciples this same thing Im telling you. The Old Jerusalem was history when Jesus Rose from the Dead and Put His Powerful Spirit into man. That he could now win every trial that lay before us and mankind. Satan was defeated Period by the Lamb and the Lion is conquering right NOW. Its been TWO thousand years and Christ Church is still here. Nothing can annihilate it.
BOTTOM LINE; Rev, 21:22 And I saw “”NO TEMPLE”” therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. PLAIN TO SEE CHRIST AND HIS BRIDE LIVING IN IT. ‘IT’ MEANS WHAT IT SAYS – THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY AND THE LAMB ARE THE TEMPLE OF IT. WE ARE THE TEMPLES BUILDING.
REVELATION 21:23
» 23 † And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. yes IN THIS WORLD EVEN NOW – IF YOU SEEK LIGHT, AND GLORY, YOU WILL HAVE THE “SUN OF GOD” MAL. 4 – BE WITH YOU IN ‘WINGS OF HEALING” BY YOUR FAITH
REVELATION 21:24
» 24 † And the NATIONS of them which are SAVED shall WALK IN THE LIGHT OF IT. and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
THIS IS TALKING ABOUT THE BRIDE THAT IS IN EVERY NATION IN THE WORLD ”TODAY”- CHRIST CHURCH IS EVERYWHERE TODAY- WE ARE THE “””KINGS AND PRIEST”” THAT LIVE IN THIS WORLD AT THIS TIME. PETER SAID SO. We are the Light of the world.
Palisade
Where did you get the idea that the millenial temple of Ezekiel will be invisible? That was quite a long detailed description for something that nobody will ever see.
Now, will the temple be there, but cloaked in invisibilty or will it just be an imaginary building?
And when Christ takes His throne (the original Throne of David now located in Buckingham Palace) just where will that throne be situated? Will Jesus just get a small apartment in Jerusalem and rule from there? Or will he pull up His throne to a small streetside cafe and just kick back and watch the passing parade?
No, the Ezekiel temple will be real and it will be magnificent. Befitting the King of Kings. The only difference is that the holy of holies, if still there will not house the ark of the covenant since its use in sacrifices will be unnecessary since the Lamb of God will be right there in the temple, on His throne.
Other than that the Judaic religion will not change much and it certainly won’t look “Christian” as we know it today. I’m certain a new temple will be the centerpiece of the new Christianity. And many other new temples will be built all over the earth as the gospel is taught to the whole earth. Just because the people represent the “temple of God” doesn’t mean that people won’t congregate and pray in groups in buildings made just for that purpose. Jesus did not intend for His followers to remain apart and never congregate together in His name.
Perhaps Ezekiel himself may be in charge of building the 2rd temple. After all, he will be resurrected the day Jesus returns, so who better to supervise the construction?
Just a thought.
Jim – If you don’t believe the scripture’s then you will never find the truth. God is not going to build cement structures for sacrifice when HE has Already done it in the SPIRIT KINGDOM. I know you are of the teaching of the Sabbath and you do not understand some spiritual things dear brother. I’m having a Sabbath everyday living in me. If you cannot understand that. Then they is not no point in going on with this conversation. Its in the Bible There was NO TEMPLE their in – We are the Temple that Eze. was speaking of. Just dead bones till Christ Raised us up with the Holy Ghost. And the Jew as well. We are all the “Israel of God” not 2 different bodies of believers. Israel was in un-belief as well and they sure absurd-ed the Sabbath to the point of killing Jesus over it. Everyday is a Holy Day the Bible says so.
Palisade
Palisade,
So do you believe when Jesus returns He will no longer keep the Sabbath himself? And will He be fine with everyone breaking the 4th commandment and if so, what about the other 9?
And do you think Christmas and Easter will still be celebrated? And other pagan festivals as well? I’m sure many Christian families will never want to deprive their children of toys and Santa Clause and all the decorations of the holiday, but what will Christ say? Jeremiah 10 discussed this abomination even in his day. You think that’s been changed since?
And the old “I consider every day to be the Sabbath day” does not fly in the eyes of God. He made a specific day for that purpose and told us to “Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy.” When you say that every other day is just as good you deny the word of God. I find it ironic that these deniers of the commandment think they are even more holy by turning every day into a holy day. Sorry but only God can do that. Do you also contend that the pope who removed the 2nd commandment in order to keep the Roman statues the new church had inherited was within his rights to do so?
Or the Church of the Holy Swingers who removed the command against adultery?
Maybe the mafia can claim “Thou shalt not murder” is also defunct. Where do you stop with this kind of logic? Are some commandments less important than others? Apparently so to many people, especially the 4th. Hey, if every day is a Sabbath, then who will do any work in this world? The Sabbath is a day of rest, not just for us nut for our servants and beasts of burden. So you are saying you rest all day every day? Is that what God wants us all to do?
The bible says we are to emulate Christ in our life – to do what He did. Christ was a Jew – the most proper Jew ever to walk the earth, but still a Jew. When we do this we will act more like Jesus than like the pope. Most Christians do not like nor understand Judaism and these people are in for a big shock in the millenium. And those who did not understand this in their lifetime and have died may not make the first resurrection.
And worse, those who don’t understand these truths will surely suffer the mark of the beast in the tribulation. And if we truly are God’s temple, then shouldn’t we earnestly follow His laws? You know we can’t just call ourselves Christians and then build our own personal “temples” within us and expect God to be pleased. To know God is to obey His commandments. That scripture couldn’t be clearer. If we all went by that we would all become a lot closer to Him.
Bless.
jim
she is not advocating breaking any commandments.
she is saying that spending 7 days a week with the Lord is better than only spending 1 day.
the one day was set aside for working people.
1 day was all they had to spend with God…that was minimum
but now we can do more than that
that is her point
Palisade,
I keep the Sabbath and pray every day that I feel like praying, that is what we are supposed to do. But when we congregate, we are called to do it on the lord’s day, just as modern Christians do, except they use the wrong day and believe it is the right day. That is the problem I am addressing.
But I have another question for you regarding the prophecies of Ezekiel.
The war of Gog / Magog comes right before the temple prophecy, so, do you believe this war is real, or spiritual? In fact are any of his prophecies to be taken literally?
Also, I was re-reading some of Ezekiel and I came across this from CH44:
1 Then the man brought me back to the outer gate of the sanctuary, the one facing east, and it was shut.
2 The LORD said to me, “This gate is to remain shut. It must not be opened; no one may enter through it. It is to remain shut because the LORD, the God of Israel, has entered through it.
3 The prince himself is the only one who may sit inside the gateway to eat in the presence of the LORD. He is to enter by way of the portico of the gateway and go out the same way.”
4 Then the man brought me by way of the north gate to the front of the temple. I looked and saw the glory of the LORD filling the temple of the LORD, and I fell facedown.
So explain this; He speaks of the outer gate of the sanctuary (part of the temple) and that it will be closed because, as we know – Jesus will return and enter thru the eastern gate (now sealed). So this is definitely future prophecy soon to be fulfilled. Right?
So this is taking place in the near future.
Then he says he enters thru the north gate to the front of the TEMPLE of the Lord. SO are you saying these gates are entrances into the bodies of Christians and not an actual building?
This is only one of hundreds of verses that describe and measure parts of the temple that make no sense at all if applied to people. Not even as a metaphor. I think you have taken a few verses of the New Testament and created an entire philosophy around them. Something that is done all the time with all sorts of prophecy, so I’m not surprised. I’ve just never heard it done with the millenial temple before. The more common mistake is thinking that a new temple must be rebuilt by the Jews before Jesus can return.
In any case I hope you will give this idea more thought.
Two is too many. None is not enough.
Bless
Teaching on the Sabbath Rest
Concerning the “sabbath rest” in chapter four, the conclusion was that there was remaining (ara apoleipetai) a Sabbath rest for God’s people, the “remaining” implying that another “temporary” rest that had been going on would no longer remain in the end time of Bible prophecy. Compare the prophecy in Hebrews 12 of the shaken things (toon saleiomenoon) being removed as contrasting the (literally) “not-being-shaken” things remaining (verse 27). Further, the recipients of the Hebrew epistle in their initial tasting, sharing, and enlightenment pointed toward the “about to come age” (mellontos aioonos, Hebrews 6:1-6). The “about to come” salvation of Hebrews 1:14 would be found in the “about to come” age or world, the new Jerusalem. They were to have full assurance “unto the end” (achri telous), i.e., the end of that first “body of this death” (Romans 7:24) or “evil age” (Galatians 1:4). Through faith and patience they would inherit (they were “inheriting” at the time of the writing of Hebrews as the participle shows in Hebrews 6 :11,12–kleeronomountoon) the blessings of the new things, the good things (Hebrews 10:1; Revelation 21:7).
The priestly office in 62 AD was “being changed” according to 7:12 as we would consider the present passive participle metatithemenees . The present would indicate that the “change” or literally “transporting” of the priesthood was in process at about 62 AD. The high priests were still daily ministering and offering the same sacrifices at this same time, so Judaism had not ceased to exist–the fashion of the Jewish age was passing away in that generation, but at 62 AD had not passed away yet! (1 Corinthians 7:31; 1 John 2:17; compare Hebrews 12:28, “receiving a kingdom,” not received!)
There is the promise of eternal inheritance in 9:15b (compare again 6:12) concerning heavenly things (antitypes) as compared to the types, the “figures of the true things” (antitupa toon aleethinoon, 9:23ff.). Death and judgment are set in 9:27, and since Christ, having been offered to bear the sins of many, lives, He would appear (ophtheesetai) a second [time] without sin to them who would be expecting Him (auton apekdechomenois) for salvation (9:28). The salvation they would inherit was connected with Christ’s return. The saints were about to inherit salvation in 1:14. The law was a shadow of the about-to-come good things of 10:1 (mellontoon agathoon). Salvation was promised at the fall of Jerusalem (Luke 21:28-32). Thus, we have so far Christ’s second revelation, salvation, judgment, inheritance, good things, a remaining sabbath rest, and we have barely touched the hem of the garment in Hebrews on these things! But notice: all these things were “about to be,” there would be no long wait, but in a little while, Christ would come and He would not delay (Hebrews 10:37). They would not be of those who would withdraw into destruction (hupostolees eis apooleian, 10:39), but of faith to the possession of the soul (39b; compare Jesus’ words in the context of the end of the Jewish age, “in your patience you will gain your souls,” Luke 21:19).
The Old Testament faithful had not obtained the blessings of the promise God made to Abraham (Genesis 12:1-3), “God having forseen something better concerning us, in order that not without us they should be perfected” (Hebrews 11:39,40). God’s whole “creation” would be complete, perfect, at the return of Christ from heaven (Romans 8:18-23, e.g.). They had then approached Mount Zion, the heavenly Jerusalem, had been enrolled in the heavens (apogegrammenoon en ouranois), and so they were not to refuse Him who warned them of the shaken things being removed so the not-shaken things would remain (12:22ff.). They were receiving an unshakable kingdom (basileian asaleutos), so in light of that fact, they were to have grace, through which they could serve God pleasingly, and this with devoutness and awe (eulabeias kai deous, 12:28, 29). They no longer had a continuing city, but they anticipated the about-to-come city they sought (13:14). John saw it come down out of heaven (Revelation 21:2). Paul said it was the mother of saints (Galatians 4:26). It was and is the “capital” of the Israel of God (Galatians 6:15,16). We have skipped some things in this great epistle; maybe another time we can go deeper into the great, good, eternal blessings revealed in promise from the book of Hebrews.
Palisade
So are you saying the ten commandments are only for the ancient / modern Hebrews? They no longer apply to Christians as we are under grace.
I hear this argument all the time. Especially with the 4th commandment.
But the apostles still observed the Sabbath after Jesus ascended – after they became Christians. And I also believe that the mark of the beast is Sunday worship – it will punish the commandment breakers so that no future Christian will ever consider breaking the Sabbath. Almost all the Christians today will have the mark, including you. This is what I am trying to warn people about but few are listening. Perhaps the two witnesses will have better luck, but they won’t be here of a while.
So call me crazy and make all the excuses you want but just beware in the future,,, just in case I’m right.
And he causes all who would not worship the beast, or take the mark to be put to death. Those who do not take the mark will not be able to buy and sell. Those who do take the mark and oath to the beast will not be written in the book of life but condemned to hell.
The Pope you write about have that power Jim? Yea, I didn’t think so either.
Mark
Dear Jim – If you read the article above it should have been crystal clear what it said. Yes from the time of Christ Ascension to the “”End of that world =age of Israel and the Temple destroyed in 70 A.D. Yes many Jews still kept the Sabbath. It was like it is today we living in 2 ages at the same time. Some will not believe or HAVE FAITH as Father Abraham had. That is what saves you. Faith is a Revealing of the Spirit personally to YOU.
Circumcision first :
Does every member of your church that is NOT circumcised have to get and be circumcised. Of course not. But they did under Moses as well on the eighth day. These are all just the “” Shadow of the real Salvation which was the Lamb of God called Jesus Christ. Circumcision was the “SHADOW” of believers cutting off the flesh that lived in sin inside them. = Body, Soul, and Mind. Yes today all Christians have to kill the flesh man so the Spiritual man can walk in Peace, Joy, and REST. Like Jesus Christ did in HIS KINGDOM which is the believers as well. Which is not of this world. We are in the World but not of the World. You have to cut off the world out of YOUR FLESH MAN, MIND, SOUL, And BODY. Jesus Christ was the only Man or Lamb of God that could save mankind. Rev. 5.
Col. 3:4-6 says to mortify the flesh man and kill him. The only way you can have Salvation in by Jesus Christ Holy Spirit living in you. That is the “Mark of Eternal Life” –not some “”natural holy day””. You are walking everyday as a Holy day when you receive Christ into your soul, body, and heart etc. Because you are Walking in the Kingdom of God with Jesus Christ.
JOHN 14:15 – If ye love me, keep my commandments.
JOHN 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another comforter, = Comfort means – be of good comfort – to be of good courage, be of good cheer – why – You have passed from death unto life. The Real Sabbath has a Name – Jesus Christ — that he may abide with you for ever;
JOHN 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
JOHN 14:18 ¶ I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
It does not say a “certain day of the week” Jesus said I WILL COME to you
JOHN 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
You cannot trust your eye to literal days , and moons ,meats etc. and traditions of the Elders – remember they Killed Christ. Put Him to death.
The Old Testament Sabbath cannot brought unto you the Spirit of the living God. Especially if you leave out “Possessing the Holy Spirit” which is your Eternal life.
JOHN 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. — Jesus did not say -ye are with me in the Sabbath day. Jesus replaced the Sabbath rest with giving us all the Holy Spirit of Eternal life.
JOHN 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Yes it takes love. A mere day of the Week is not the LOVE that Christ is saying here. But Christ Spirit is that LOVE. Then Jesus Manifest Himself to you. NOW that is a REAL SABBATH rest. It last Eternity. Its called the Spiritual “Day of the Lord”.
Question – Matt. 5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to FULFIL. — Jesus was the fulfillment of all that Moses wrote. Apostle Paul said “The Law was annulled”. That does not mean it was bad. It was the guideline’s that was leading you till Christ came IN HIS FULNESS and re-CREATED ALL THINGS that could not be shaken.
B. To be guilty of sin you had to have the Law. Where their is no Law Jesus said their is NO SIN. Jesus and Paul said The O.T was fulfilled. NO BODY BUT JESUS CHRIST COULD FULFILLED IT AND IT BECAME OBSOLETE.
A NEW DAY WAS DAWNING. O.T church became history – N.T church Taking over. By Abraham’s faith.
Like I said – from 33 A.D to 70 A.D. both church systems were in existence. Till 70 A.D. God destroyed Israel for the Abomination of Desolation. The Christians fled and were saved to start the N.T church.
Matt. 23: 36 Verily I say unto you, “”All these things””” shall “”come upon “””””this””””” generation. —- That was in Jesus Day. Talking to HIS disciples. It cannot be any other way period. Jesus said ”THIS” not 2,000 years later.
Jesus and the N.T church was not speaking of still you HAD to serve on a single or certain day. Everyday is a Holy Day if you are a Holy Ghost filled Christian.
MATT. 23:37 – He is talking to Jerusalem as well read below:
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
MATT. 23:38- Behold, “”””your house””” is left “””unto you desolate”””. Yes and in 70 AD they had NO HOUSE = TEMPLE to gather in any longer.
MATT 23:39- For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
That generation saw the “”Coming of the Lord”” in flesh and Spirit. “””Israel saw the Coming of the Lord as well””” in Judgment on their Babylon city that the Jews worshiped more than God himself. Jesus had to destroy that Temple. Same today. People will hold to a tradition till they die. If the Holy Spirit does not reveal it to you by faith. To be closed minded is to be a reprobate in heart.
MATTHEW 5:18- For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. — AMEN it was fulfilled when Jesus Rose from the DEAD. O.T had but a few years left till it was destroyed by their lack of FAITH. Not a Sabbath.
Matt. 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.–NOTICE – They all kept the Sabbath and perished. – That generation had the MARK OF THE BEAST for rejecting what Christ was Giving them for a substitute worship of Temple Worship. The law was already fulfilled when Christ Rose from the dead. On the 8th. Day. And yes the disciples and others kept it and some did not. As the Greeks did NOT have to get CIRCUMCISED.
Gal. 5:14 For all the “” law is fulfilled”” in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. – not thou shalt love the natural 7th. day.
I’m exaggerating it to you so you can get the point.
Matt. 22:37 – Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Matt. 22:38- This is the first and great commandment.
Matt. 22:39 – And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Matt. 22:40- ON THESE ”TWO COMMANDMENTS’ HANG ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS. —- THAT INCLUDES MOSES AS WELL WITH THE SABBATH. .
If people cannot see that the Bible is ALL ABOUT the SEED in GEN.3. Jesus Christ is the Person of every scripture God gave to HIS Bride. God became Personified in Jesus Christ. “IT’S FINISHED’ – Jesus had already said that 2,000 years ago. As stated in Revelations as well. Why because the great day of the Lord had Come in that day. We all think today. He has to come and finish it up again. When in reality judgment is already started in our great day of false religion. We today have left the “” Character, Image, Exact copy, and the badge of servitude that Christ left us to follow””. Not just some holy sabbath being desecrated. I just read to you what the “”Mark of the Beast”” is and has always been . You have to be HOLY INSIDE with the Spirit of Jesus Christ
Palisade
Palisade,
I have heard all these arguments many times over the years and i still ain’t buying them. They are all based on false assumptions and innuendo.
If God wanted to cancel the Ten Commandments he would have made that very clear in the New Testament. He wouldn’t have buried the fact in dozens of different verses all over the bible. He would have proclaimed loudly, “The Ten Commandments are hereby nullified by the blood of Christ.” or something to that effect.
And when I ask the proponents of this theory if it is now OK to kill, lie, steal or have other Gods etc they always say, “Of course not!” So why is that? I guess because the others just “seem” bad and something we shouldn’t do. But the 4th commandment doesn’t seem to harm anyone so they all agree it is fine to break that one. Except for one thing… it hurts God. He blessed that day \for a reason – to be close to His people – and now most of them ignore it because it is either inconvenient or they would rather follow the traditions of man than the law of God.
You can come up with all the lame excuses to believe one or all the commandments are no longer in force but you are only fooling yourself. The Book of Revelation clearly states that those who keep the commandments of God avoid the mark of the beast, and to break one is to break them all, so how do you expect to avoid the mark? To refuse some chip or bar code? Good luck with that. If the Ten Commandments were void they wouldn’t be mentioned in the last book of the New Testament, would they?
JOHN 14:15 – If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Do you only love God enough to keep nine of them? Or none?
If when Jesus returns and institutes Saturday services are you going to quote Him the scriptures above to prove Him wrong? You wouldn’t be alone, there are over 2 billion Christians who are with you right now, but not for long. The 7 last plagues will convince them they were wrong all this time.
I only wish I could the same ahead of time.
Jim
You are telling the truth that the ten commanments are not cancelled that mens protestant faith is false because you claim you are free to sin.
http://www.wnd.com/2015/04/obama-presses-bans-on-gay-conversion-therapy/
If the therapy did not work ,liberal would not want it
banned. Christianity is not pro-sodomy. .
If someone I know went to the hospital for heart surgery
and died, should I conclude that heart surgery is fatal
and should be ban.
resident Obama and his secretive right-hand adviser, Valerie Jarrett, responded to a “We the People” website petition to ban “gay”-conversion therapies, saying: We agree – the White House supports such prohibitions.
The response, posted late Wednesday evening by Jarrett: “We share your concern about its potentially devastating effects on the lives of transgender as well as gay, lesbian, bisexual and queer youth. As part of our dedication to protecting America’s youth, this administration supports efforts to ban the use of conversion therapy for minors.”
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The original petition on the White House website garnered more than 120,000 signatures, well above the threshold required to receive an administration response.
The text described how a 17-year-old transgender wrote a suicide note, posted it on social media and walked in front of a semi-truck. The teen had previously been taken to conversion therapy.
It went on: “Therapists that engage in the attempt to brainwash or reverse any child’s gender identity or sexual orientation are seriously unethical and legislation is needed to end such practices.”
Jarrett, in an interview with the New York Times, said Obama had been emotionally moved by the teen’s tale.
“It’s not the story of one young person,” Jarrett said. “It is the story of countless young people who have been subjected to this.”
Obama isn’t going to expressly push for legislation on Capitol Hill to ban the therapy, but he is going to press lawmakers to discuss and mull the issue, White House officials said, the New York Times reported. And he is going to support state efforts to ban the therapy within their respective borders, the newspaper said.
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2015/04/obama-presses-bans-on-gay-conversion-therapy/#8JSt6spB33cvTIi4.99
I wonder if there are any bans yet for forcing children to accept homosexuality and sexual perversion in the classroom. right now this is being taught and the children have no choice but to sit there.
conversion goes both ways.
obviously, therapists do not know what they are doing and so the child is being traumatized.
this is not helping anyone.
sexuality should be taught at home…
there are so many people set free by God through the healthy therapy
https://vimeo.com/78285817
http://standupforthetruth.com/2014/07/video/
I agree. but there is something wrong if patients kill themselves.
https://vimeo.com/channels/purepassionchannel/videos
check out these video
God bless
Dear Jim – If you believe you have to keep the Sabbath. Then you are “”adding” to the word of God. Its not Jesus “”plus”” and a certain sabbath day. The Sun has come up for thousands of years. And you gonna try and tell me that on such a certain day the Sun comes up that is different than any other day it comes up. You are a little diluted to think Saturday is that certain day that God set aside. When it reality its every day the sun comes up to a Real Christian. We serve The Lord everyday.
How any one could actually think that keeping a Saturday makes you Holy. And or gives you the Holy Spirit. And actually think if we worship on a certain day that is not Saturday is the “Mark of the beast” you are – adding to the word and that is serious when it comes to the “Salvation Plan of your soul”. And with all the evidence of the N.T teaching contrary to what you believe. You must not want to see it. If all we had to do is go to church on a Saturday to be saved you know nothing about real salvation by FAITH AND GRACE. You are a deceived and do not believe the Word of God. Jesus came to earth and died and resurrected so we could be filled with the “Mighty Holy Spirit”. The Holy Spirit is OUR GUIDE TO ALL TRUTH. And you tell me if I do not go church on Saturday and keep that day Holy we have the Mark of the Beast. What part do you not see. In that EVERYDAY IS HOLY TO GOD. Their is no time element in something that is ETERNAL. So that ends the discussion for me. Its your life. The Holy Spirit tells us right from wrong. And the Holy Spirit cannot be wrong. A Little leaven can kill the whole lump if you let it. If you will not let Gods Holy Spirit teach you. You will never see the truth of the mystery. We are Saved by Faith through Grace. Serving on a saturday is not going to help you. I feel for you though. That you will see it sooner or later. Taking on Christ Character, and Nature, and Holiness is the way into the Holiness of any day.
Palisade
It sounds like you’ve never read the Ten Commandmentss. Here is the fourth:
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Well there you have it. Sounds like the Sabbath is pretty important to God. This is by far the longest commandment and the only one that starts with the word “remember” as if God knew His people would forget about it. And he was right.
So now the question is. Why has this commandment been eliminated? Or do believe that all the commandments have been eliminated? Nailed to the cross with Jesus?
If so can we lie, cheat, steal, kill and commit adultery all we want? Under grace means no law? To love God is to keep His commandments. All of them. To break one is to break them all. This is all New Testament stuff.
The fact that we are under grace does not mean we are free from the law. Dietary laws perhaps, but not the Ten Commandments. They were written in stone for a reason. And yet many today think we can break them at will. This is part of the great “falling away” spoke of by Jesus that is to happen before He returns.
Obeying the commandments is all over the New Testament and you can’t delete ones that don’t suit you, so your whole premise is un-biblical and ungodly. Reject God’s laws and you reject God. It’s as simple as that. Will we be punished for following the law or for breaking it?
The answer seems clear to me.
Jim,
How can you tell G-d rested on Saturday? Although, Saturday is the seventh day on our work schedule, can we tell when Tuesday was for G-d?
I’ve always wondered about that. If I work at a Hospital on Saturdays and not resting, according to you I have the mark of the beast.
You are so stuck, you can not see Christ is the one to Judge who has the mark of the beast. Not you and your human understanding of the Bible. Plus, the bible reads one must swear an oath to the beast to receive the mark. Otherwise, you do not get to buy and sell.
Remember?
I wish you peace Jim.
leatherneck
bible said God rested on the 7th day. and by established jewish tradition, which jesus observed, it is saturday.
however, as jesus said, the sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath.
jesus healed the sick on the sabbath, and fed his apostles and the crowds.
we are to do God’s will on the sabbath, and pursue not our own wills and pleasures.
so if you are in a hospital helping the sick, or doing any service to help others, you are in line with the heart of jesus, and you are in God’s will.
how each person “rests” on the sabbath can also be unique. for me, discussing God’s word is restful, and I love it. or playing with the puppy is fun. others will attend services, or stay home and pray and reflect. how each person keeps the day holy is between them and God
sabbath can be a 24/7 experience now, and we can enjoy God’s presence anytime, while still keeping the 7th day holy….
I know, but I think Jim does not.
Cheers.
The 7th day has been kept by the ancient Israelites from the time of Adam and Eve. Even when our present calendars were modified the dates changed but the days of the week were kept correct. If you study the topic you will be amazed at how the true Sabbath was kept correct – as if the hand of God was at work in keeping it so.
As for working on the sabbath, exceptions are made for doctors, firemen, police officers etc, according to modern Jews with confirmation from the bible and Jesus’ working miracles is a prime example.
As for the line between work and rest, it can be blurred especially in today’s world. If ancient Israelites had X-boxes and TVs God might have said whether using such devices are considered work or not. Heck, some people work on a computer all day, so is going on facebook on the Sabbath considered work? Tough call. Is playing frisbee or bowling work? It isn’t exactly resting but we can’t just sleep all day. We are told to rest from our labors, so if we were farmers or coal miners, having a day to relax after a week of work would be good for our bodies and our health. The ancients had no time for recreation so God never had to tell them not to play softball on the Sabbath, but in today’s stressful world many of us need some sort of recreation to relieve that stress and keep us healthy in other ways.
I think it is critical that we understand the importance of the Sabbath commandment and do our best to follow it. If the mark of the beast is indeed Sunday worship then it is important not to have the mark in either our actions (right hand) or our minds (foreheads). In other words we must know that Sunday is not the lord’s day and we must not congregate on that day (act on it) even if mandated to do so.
(Now please don’t ask how the pope can mandate Sunday worship for every Christian then tell me the antichrist will mandate an implant in every person on earth).
But I don’t believe simply rejecting Sunday worship will be enough. If you also reject the true Sabbath, and say God doesn’t care what day you treat as the Sabbath you are rejecting the word of God just as much. You either believe in the Ten Commandments or you don’t. Second guessing whether God has changed His mind about some of them is only going to get you into trouble, spiritually.
So you will have to follow your heart here. It is the word of God versus the traditions of men.
Make your choice and take your chances.
In case you need some bible truth on whether we should be keeping the Sabbath in the end time tribulation here is a few verses from the lips of Jesus from Matthew 24:
16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
This describes future events and it is for Christians not Jews. Why would Jesus mention the Sabbath in such a way if it has been eliminated? And there are dozens of other examples that show that the law is still in effect – now and forever. Yet many people prefer to ignore these verses. They feel a lot better thinking they need not obey the law. It seems to be too much trouble for them for some reason.
So pick the verses that please you and ignore the rest if you must, but know that there will be consequences.
The mark of the beast is coming.
Bro. Jim
James 2: 8 ¶ If ye fulfil the “”royal law”” according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
ROYAL means — “”937″” basilikos from 935; — nobleman — royal country
1) of or belong to a king, kingly, royal, regal; of a man, the officer or minister of a prince, a courtier
—“”935″” » basileus (through the notion of a “”foundation of power””;
AV — king )– King (of Jews) — King (God or Christ) — King (of Israel)
1) leader of the people, prince, commander, lord of the land, king
We are the Children of the KING – We are not of this world. – The Lord has given us the POWER of the “Royal Law” – Love covereth a multitude of sins. We walk everyday as a sabbath day. If we sin on any of the 7 days we ask the Lord to forgive us and He does. Everyday is the same with God. Coming together on a Sabbath day did not help the people at all. Just read Malachi. And the O.T. Its very plain.
Why did God kill the man that picked up a stick on the Sabbath day and God smote him. Answer: God hates it when you will not live by faith but by works only. That was the message sent to Israel. Works will not save you without having FAITH and RECEIVING the Holy Spirit.
“The Day of the Lord” is when Christ enter’s your temple. He Tabernacle’s inside your body. That is the simplicity that is in Christ and most cannot receive it. Then you enter into the “Day of the Lord Come” into you – which is a Holy Ghost Sabbath every day living in you. Its the truth. Jesus said Come and I will give you REST – not just for a single day a week. But for Eternity. The Sabbath of the O.T was just the Shadow only of what Jesus did for us in reality. Jesus said Why will ye perish. Come unto me and I will give you rest. Yes Eternal rest.
Rom. 10:3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
Rom. 10:4 – “”For Christ””” = Holy Spirit = is the “””end of the law””” for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Rom. 10: 5 – For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
Rom. 10:6- But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
Rom. 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
Rom. 10:8 But what saith it? “”The word is nigh thee””, “”even in thy mouth””, and “”in thy heart:”” that is, the “”word of faith””, which we preach;
Rom. 10:9 – That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
Rom. 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. = deliverance of all things
Rom. 10:11- For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom. 10:12- ¶ For there is “”no difference”” between the “”Jew and the Greek””: for the “”same Lord”” over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Rom. 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Palisade
You quote a lot of scriptures but you fail to find any scripture that declares the 7th day Sabbath or any other commandment to be null and void. Surely if God decided to change or delete one or all of the commandments He would have let it be clearly known and Jesus would have taught His disciples of these important changes. You say it is better to treat every day like a Sabbath but that does not honor the day the lord rested from His labors. In fact it lessens it. You can’t rest 7 days a week so every day a Sabbath makes no sense. Many people think they can improve on the commandments and they are so sure that God will be cool with their ideas. This applies to people who think Jesus will be OK with celebrating Christmas even after His return just so their kids can still get presents under their pagan tree. (See Jer:2 on this). Why not let us have our pagan holidays, they say. What harm does it do? But God does not see it that way. It his His religion and He wants it done His way, not ours.
The destruction of “Babylon” in Revelation is the removal of these pagan practices, holidays and other ideas from His church and the restoration of the Philadelphia church. That church honored the true Sabbath and the future church of Jesus Christ will do the same. The Book of Revelation describes the true church, twice, as, “keeping the commandments of God and having the testimony of Jesus Christ“ so the commandments are still in play today, and with no clear instructions from God to change or modify any of them we can only assume that what was etched on the original tablets are the same ones we are still to follow today.
Any other interpretation is just wishful thinking.
Dear Jim – You said = You can’t rest 7 days a week so every day a Sabbath makes no sense. Many people think they can improve on the commandments –
Question – did JESUS improve on the commandments when they brought to HIM the woman caught in Adultery. Absolutely yes – He FORGAVE Her and did not STONE her. On and on we can go.
If you dear brother would only listen to your heart that is where the Commandments come from. Jesus did not come and die for us to keep the Sabbath and 612 more laws of obedience. No Jew could keep it. Instead Jesus Gave unto us the Sabbath Rest which is the “Power of the NEW BIRTH living IN US Everyday”. Read below the simple verses of Paul.
Rom. 2:14 – For when the “”Gentiles””, “”which “have not the law”, DO BY NATURE THE THINGS CONTAINED IN THE LAW these, having not the law, “”are a law unto themselves:””
Rom. 2:15 – Which shew “”the work of the law””” “””WRITTEN in their hearts”””, “””their conscience””” also bearing witness, and “””their thoughts””” the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;)
Dear Bro. Jim – I feel for you and care for you more than you know. But when its plain in the scripture how can you deny it.
The N.T Word is the Revelation of the O.T shadow that was to come.
The Holy Spirit lives in you if you have been Born again. Its the Spirit that quickens your mind, body, and soul. Please take this into your heart my brother. The Holy Spirit living IN YOU is the SABBATH day rest that MOSES wrote about. And Jesus fulfilled it.
Yes i understand the Christ-mass – I understand the the Passover not Easter. Let go and let God do His mighty work in you. He is the only ONE that can help you with your mindset and soul set – But it will still come by the WORD OF GOD speaking to you personally. The N.T WORD is the Revelation of the WORD. God said My Spirit will not always strive with man. You gonna have to read it your self to find the golden nugget you are looking for. You got to “Dig your Own Well” to get the Water into you.
The 7 day Adventist have a couple truths but they nullify it by their adding to the Word. The SABBATH is the HOLY SPIRIT IN YOU NOW and EVERY DAY. I pray you for you to grasp this. God is for you and so am I. Just one sentence from the “Holy Spirit and its correction will lead you right.” I was deceived for 10 years in the Pentecostal church cause I was raised that way. But not deceived anymore on it. I dug my well and fought myself a New Man and a New Revelation to live by. It has prospered my SOUL with Truth. How much PASSION do Christian’s have today. About their own Soul.
If you read the Word of God it is the SPIRIT of the Words Jesus spoke of and was all about. HE was the WORD –
Love you in Christ – whether you know it or not.
Palisade –
I just got thru half a dozen bible commentaries on Romans 2 and here is one example of what I found:
.
OBJECTIVES IN STUDYING THIS CHAPTER
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1) To understand the particulars of God’s righteousness: grace,
redemption, propitiation, faith in Jesus, and justification
2) To see the difference between a law of works and the law of faith
.
Paul now carefully begins to explain the “good news” of God’s plan of
salvation. Apart from law, yet witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
God’s way of making man right through faith in Jesus Christ is now made
clear, and made available to all who believe, whether Jew or Greek, for
all have sinned (21-23).
.
This justification of man is explained in terms of redemption, made
possible through the blood of Christ, and offered to those who have
faith in Christ. It also demonstrates how God can be both “just” (who
takes seriously the sins of mankind) and “a justifier” (who is able to
forgive sinners). God is able to do this by offering Christ’s blood as
a propitiation to those who have faith (24-26).
This “justification” is a gift of God’s grace to those who have faith,
which prevents anyone from boasting as though they through the works of
a law deserved it (27-30). This does not void the need for law, but
rather meets the requirement of law (31).
.
They all say the same thing; that even pagans have certain laws similar to some of the Ten Commandments but like the Jews, no one has fulfilled those laws and are still guilty of sin. Also they are not exempt from the commandments even if they have never heard them.
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Read the last sentence of the commentary – the law (commandments) are not void – so Paul is actually telling the Romans that they must keep God’s law and not just Roman civil law (which may be similar).
As usual you have taken a few verses out of context and reinterpreted them to try to prove a point. Bit when one studies the whole chapter in full context a whole different interpretation arises.
I found no commentary that even hinted at what you described here, in fact the opposite was true. We are told to obey the commandments and there is no mention of the 4th commandment being exempt.
Where are the verses where any apostle removes the 4th commandment from the law? The apostles all kept it in fact. It wasn’t changed until the Romans under Justinian forced pagan Sunday worship on all citizens of Rome. And there it stayed to this day. And God wants His day back. The great and terrible Day of the Lord will punish those who don’t agree. This is what I am trying to save people from.
You never answered the question as to whether all the commandments are void or just the 4th?
As for the Holy Spirit guiding you towards ignoring the 4th commandment it has guided me into following it, which as a long-time Catholic I had never considered. Looks like there is more than one Holy Spirit. And the more I study the bible the more certain I am that all the commandments are still in effect.
By the way, you can not be born again until you die and are resurrected. Modern-day preachers have hijacked the term to mean you have received Jesus into your heart or something similar, but until Christ actually returns, no one is “born again.” Shocking, but true.
I pray you will keep an open mind in this matter as someday soon it could save your life.
Bless, everyone.
I agree the Law is still in effect and Christ fulfilled the law. He did not abolish it. But, Christ judges, not some man full of sin.
Because of the Universal Church, it will take Christ himself to fix the Church. That includes the Sabbath.
Have a good day Jim.
Right on,
Most people don’t realize that the entire theme of the Book of Revelation is the “correction” or rather destruction of all the false/apostate Christian churches before Jesus returns to marry the true church. So many people think it is about destroying Islam or some countries that God doesn’t like but it is no different that the ancient Jews who were always being punished for their backsliding. Unfortunately we don’t have a Jeremiah to tell us our problem but perhaps we will when the two witnesses arrive.
Unfortunately the bible predicts the world will hate them which kind of figures based on history.
Bless…
Jim you said – By the way, you can not be born again until you die and are resurrected. Modern-day preachers have hijacked the term to mean you have received Jesus into your heart or something similar, but until Christ actually returns, no one is “born again.” Shocking, but true.
I pray you will keep an open mind in this matter as someday soon it could save your life.
Bless, everyone.
He already returned on the day of Pentecost -Acts. 2 and 3. That changed everything for the disciples and they went forward in Power and leaning the Word of God for their hour.
We have went with Jesus in Matt. We have spent time in Rom. so lets spend so time in Hebrews now. Ok dear Brother. lets go.
I give you nothing but scriptures most of the time. Please read a few more.
Heb. 2: 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that HE by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Explained – Being Born again is death to the carnal man. And Christ rising you into his Holy Spirit not a 24 hour day . “Christ has died for EVERY MAN already“ Im dead in flesh but alive in the Spirit of Jesus Christ that Lives IN ME.
HEB 2:10 – ¶ For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation “PERFECT through sufferings. “ = death, burial, resurrectin
Jim – If I thought like you do then Paul should have wrote Perfect by “keeping the Sabbath.” hello
Heb. 9:11 11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a “”greater and more perfect tabernacle,”” not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; –
Paul Explained – Gods glory use to come into the stone temple – today Gods glory comes to your tabernacle =temple – Not by just keeping of Sabbath on a Saturday 24 hour period. Saturday is not the temple he is entering. Its your own temple. Your Spirit, soul, and body. = all has to be Holy. To be Holy you must receive the “”HOLY”” SPIRIT -not 24 hour day.
Heb. 10:1 ¶ For the LAW having a SHADOW of good things to come, and NOT the very IMAGE of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Explained – ver 10 – this is self explained and so simple.
If The Sabbath of the Jews was all their was to salvation. Then Jesus Would not have had died for our sin. And we would still be in our sins.
Heb. 4:8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Explained – Yes Jesus was the other “Day Star Arising” in our hearts not on a certain day. Spiritually it is called the “Day of the Lord” for us who has received our day.
HEB. 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Explained – The O.T Sabbath was just a SHADOW till Jesus Christ manifest into that Shadow in a Man Called Messiah.
HEB.4:10 – For he that is entered into his rest, he also HATH CEASED from his own works, as God did from his.
Explained – When God created the World and man in 6 days. He rested on the 7th. day and it was a completion of HIS work. Remember it was Jesus Christ that went into hell and revived the O.T saints to resurrection.
Also Paul said Christ was in Moses. The Law had to come first to even recognize what sin was. Then the O.T finished out and then Came a NEW day of Power for Israel and Gentile. Its FAITH – And Yes you faith is a revelation of the Truth in your Conscience, flesh, and Spirit. You got it all when you got Jesus Christ. Paul said count you body as DEAD now. Col. 3. I do fulfil the Law by having Christ IN ME. I know right from wrong.
HEB. 4:11- ¶ Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
Answer – its not a Sabbath 24 hour period – It is the Eternal Holy Spirit – Jesus Christ – coming into you giving you the Perfect REST. At Christ birth – The Angels said Peace on earth and good will to man. Come unto me – I will give you REST. To deny Jesus Christ is to deny salvation period. it’s the only form of salvation in the New testament.
Question — why would God have to send Jesus Christ to us to die and resurrect if the Law was sufficient.
HEB. 4:12- For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Explained – Does not mention the Sabbath rest with Quick, and Powerful piecing even to the dividing asunder of soul and Spirit and mind. Its SPIRITUAL POWER NOW IN THE NEW TESTAMENT – THE ETERNAL REST. POSSIBLE BY JESUS CHRIST
HEB. 4:13- Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
HEB. 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
It is not a O.T Sabbath day opening your eyes – it’s a NEW HIGH PRIEST the Lamb of God – Giving unto you as a Kinsmen redeemer – the Lamb of God = Rev. 5
Saturday worship is NOT GREATER THAN the KINSMAN REDEEMER – If you make it that – then you are way off base in the N.T gospel. And you Need a NEW Heavenly BIRTH
HEB. 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
Answer – Worshiping a period of any 24 hour day – does not replace the HIGH PRIEST of our confession.
HEB. 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of GRACE =not day, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
Explained – its not to come into a Saturday worship period of 24 hours. But everyday “Come boldly into the Throne of GRACE and MERCY and find Grace to help in time of need. We do not pray to the Sabbath day for grace. I’m being silly now to make point.
Just coming together and trying to reason together with you Bro. Jim.
Palisade. The SDA have some good teaching that others should understand. But the keeping of a Sabbath 24 hour day is not one of them. And then to attach that to the “Mark of the Beast” is really a stretch of the imagination.
The Mark of the Beast is -Your Godly or evil Character, and Godly or evil Image, exact copy – of Christ or satan , and Love and faith in this Worldly Kingdom or the Heavenly Kingdom . Palisade means “fortress” and that is the bottom line of the word “Mark” in the Bible. Jesus took us out of the Worlds dimension and has already placed us into Heavenly places by the Holy Spirit. amen
Once again I have referred to bible commentators for a proper explanation of the verses you quoted. First is the definition(s) of the word “rest” as used in Hebrews:
REST
There are several kinds of rest referred to in Hebrews. The first rest mentioned is the “rest” the first generation of Israelites failed to enter, namely entrance into the Promised Land and rest from its enemies (Hebrews 3:11). Then there was the “rest” to which the psalmist referred in Psalm 95 that was available in his time (“today”). And there is the “rest” which was available to those whom the author of Hebrews was writing in his day:
Therefore we must be wary that, while the promise of entering his rest remains open, none of you may seem to have come short of it (Hebrews 4:1, emphasis mine).
That rest was not merely the rest of possessing the Promised Land, but a great rest, a “sabbath rest.” The source of this rest is God, who after having completed the work of creation, rested on the seventh day. This rest is the rest from our labors. It is the “rest” which is the key to the rest which is available to us today.
There is still a “rest” that is available to us “today.” I would understand this to have present and future dimensions, just as salvation has. There is surely a “salvation rest,” a resting from our works in an effort to earn God’s favor, when we come to faith in the finished work of the Lord Jesus on the cross of Calvary. And there is the eternal rest which all Christians will experience. But there must also be what we might call a “sanctification rest,” a rest from striving as Christians in the power of the flesh, in a futile effort to attain godliness. I believe that we see this in Romans 7 and 8. Chapter 7 is the description of a Christian trying to live up to God’s standards in the power of the flesh, and failing badly. Chapter 8 is the solution. The Christian is to live in the power of the Holy Spirit, the same Spirit that raised the dead body of Jesus from the grave. By the working of His Spirit in us, we are able, to some degree, to live a godly life (see Romans 8:1-17). This is resting in Him, or we might even say, abiding in Him (see John 15:1-14). This is the key to fruitfulness.
It is clear that “God’s rest” is not the same as “Sabbath rest.”
The following sheds more light on Sabbath rest:
1 Therefore we must be wary that, while the promise of entering his rest remains open, none of you may seem to have come short of it. 2 For we had good news proclaimed to us just as they did. But the message they heard did them no good, since they did not join in with those who heard it in faith. 3 For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said, “As I swore in my anger, ‘They will never enter my rest!’” And yet God’s works were accomplished from the foundation of the world. 4 For he has spoken somewhere about the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works,” 5 but to repeat the text cited earlier: “They will never enter my rest!” 6 Therefore it remains for some to enter it, yet those to whom it was previously proclaimed did not enter because of disobedience. 7 So God again ordains a certain day, “Today,” speaking through David after so long a time, as in the words quoted before, “O, that today you would listen as he speaks! Do not harden your hearts.” 8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken afterward about another day. 9 Consequently a Sabbath rest remains for the people of God. 10 For the one who enters God’s rest has also rested from his works, just as God did from his own works (Hebrews 4:1-10).2
This text concludes with “Consequently a Sabbath rest remains for the people of God.” So while Joshua failed to achieve God’s rest, for us today we have the Sabbath rest instead. It says the opposite of your interpretation in fact. As I said before, the closer I study the bible the more convinced I am that the Ten Commandments are still in effect… all of them.
To all:
Rom. 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
John 15:22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, ”“they had not had sin:”” but now they have no cloke for their sin.
John 15: 24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, ”“they had not had sin:”” but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.
Rom. 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight:””’ for by the law is the knowledge of sin.“”
“”Abraham”” was called out by Faith. A “New Message”
“”Moses”” was commanded to write the “”Law by Faith”” in what God told Him to do. Moses gave the People knowledge of what sin was. So they had no cloak to hide behind and say I did not know that was sin. “New Message” again.
“”Jesus comes”” and said He fulfilled all of Moses commandments in 2 verses. Right back to Abraham’s faith. A “New Message” for Jew and Gentile now.
“”Paul and the Apostles came””. Explained why Jesus had to come – New Message again.
Point – we better understand the “Message for this Hour” or their is no excuse for us either.
ค๓คภ๔ค — You right on target
The Jews and Israel will have to receive a “”New Message”” as well. Believing the same thing Paul wrote and explained about along with the other Disciples.
God would have been guilty to the 1st century Jews. To let the Jew now come in on Moses Message again in our day. That’s a NO DO. Its Jesus Christ and Him crucified. And its about the 2 commandments that Jesus already had told them. The Law was fulfilled in Christ period.
1. We are “Sons of God” and know the truth IN CHRIST and are free from the Jerusalem from below Gal. 4. We living in the Jerusalem that is ABOVE NOW. By faith not law.
2. The Holy Spirit that Jesus Christ gave us is a deeper understanding than the Law ever was. Why would Jesus send them the Law again and set up another stone temple when He has already destroyed it.
Gal. 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Gal. 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Gal. 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor un-circumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
Gal. 5:9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.
Gal. 5:14 For all the “”law is fulfilled in one word””, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Gal. 5:16 This I say then, “Walk in the Spirit”, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal. 5:18 But if ye be “”led of the Spirit””, “”ye are not under the law””.
Gal. 6: 2 Bear ye one another’s burdens, and so “”fulfil the law of Christ””.
Palisade
Dear Bro. Jim – If God had a rest as you are talking. Then it was Jesus Christ sending us the Holy Spirit = Comforter = Rest
Rest – 3973 pauo a primary verb (“pause”);
AV — cease — leave — refrain
1) to make to cease or desist; to “”restrain a thing or person from something””; to cease, to leave off; “”have got release from sin””, i.e. “”no longer stirred by its incitements and seductions””
The Holy Ghost enables us to Morphing from one dimension to another.
Called Quickening spirit. Like a Butterfly morphing from the worm. It becomes beautiful yet it is still a worm in the middle. But now has 2 beautiful lovely wings to fly into Heavenly places.
Matt. 12: 43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
Matt. 12:44- Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
Matt. 12:45- Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.
Religion lets more demons in you if you do not have your vessel full of the Holy Spirit. If you are going to be HOLY then you MUST have the HOLY SPIRIT “IN YOU” That is your comforter and Rest, and Peace and Joy. If you sin you ask the Lord to forgive you in sincerity and He forgives you. You are a Son of God and God love you. Just like the Prodigal Son who’s Father put him back into the same Position as a Son. Gods Grace is amazing. Along with the Power of the Holy Ghost to ignite Grace and Love into you all your days. Yes people sin. Jesus is are Judge, Jury, and Witnesses. He releases you from bondage by His Grace, Love and Compassion and that is the REST we have. You can go to the Throne Room any day to talk to Jesus and let His Holy Spirit speak to your heart of Peace, Rest, and condemnation. Tell me any man that has never sinned. Their is only ONE and that was Jesus Christ. Sin is Doubt and un-belief. David said if God would mark the iniquities of man who could stand – answer None of us. It takes Gods Spirit taking you over to Overcome. Overcoming is not the worship of a Saturday or any other day. Many religious persons sin while in church. Listening to false doctrines of devils. And think nothing of it. The Sabbath is Jesus Christ, The Holy Spirit is Jesus Christ, Your Holiness is by Jesus Christ Spirit in you, Your Godly Love is because of Jesus Christ not some day you set aside. He is Your Rest and that is the Only Rest you need to Over come in this hour or any other hour of trial.
2 Cor. 12: 9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that “”the POWER of Christ””” may “”REST””” upon ME. ——- their is your absolute answer for the sabbath rest.
Has nothing to do with what day you go to church to worship. We worship HIM Every day if you are a Christian.
I love you man but its sooo plain. I pray you see it. They is nothing wrong with going to church of Saturday or Sunday or any day. A true believer serve’s and believes and worships Christ everyday.
You are complete in Christ – only – you can do all the works you want to and still be lost. Its been proven by the Words of Jesus Christ.
I would that you could see it dear Brother. The Truth is in you but you must put away you Traditions of man made laws. That make the Word of God of NONE affect. Jesus did not commend them for all their works. But He did rebuke them for their lack of faith in the Spoken Word. He actually condemned them. They should have known better. Jesus is all you Need living in YOU. Its called the Holy Spirit. Just ask God for it in a sincere prayer out of your Heart.
Gotta go. Palisade.
You say:
“”the POWER of Christ””” may “”REST””” upon ME. ——- their is your absolute answer for the sabbath rest.
That is akin to saying the life of a prisoner rests on the shoulders of his armed guards or a verdict rests on the decision of the jury etc. It is NOT the same kind of physical rest mentioned in the 4th commandment:
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
So this verse simply can not be the definitive proof that the 4th commandment is no longer in effect.And it doesn’t cover the fact that God hallowed that day and made it holy. Now you think you or anyone else can make all the other days just as holy? Once again, if the Sabbath day was eliminated then why di the apostles continue to honor it? And none of them ever preached that Saturday was no longer holy to God. Even the Catholic church admits that Sunday worship was forced on the early church by the romans. They also say it was a “mark” of their authority that they were able to change it. They, like you, believe the commandments can be changed by man. And 99% of all modern Christians would agree. So you are not alone and this isn‘t the first time I’ve had this discussion. But the bible says the whole world will follow the beast and that the true church (who obeys the commandments and has the testament of Jesus Christ) is just a tiny “remnant‘, so I’m delighted to be in the minority here.
And besides, do you think it displeases God to try to keep His commandments? Or is He more displeased when we break them?
Bless…
Well Jim – if the Literal Word and Spiritual Word does not touch your heart, soul or mind. – Then you are lost as well.
If you cannot believe the plain reading of the Bible then their is no hope for you of any NEW revelation from God. = Spirit
The Shadow of the Law – was another covenant. Jesus Christ gave us a better one than Moses. Jesus did not deny Moses laws but Fulfilled them. I have Christ the SABBATH SPIRIT=ANNOINTING living in me right now everyday. Its really sad you cannot see it only as literally saturday.
You only have 2 spirits that control you. The Human or the Spiritual. That’s it. Human means your Character is of the intellectual world. You was born a sinner. Because of one man Adam. You become a New Creation with a New Character when Christ comes into you. Not serving a 24 hour day. They did that in the O.T under Moses – Jesus came and did not sin. He was not hung up on the Sabbath as you are. You either living a sinful life and deceived or you are living a Righteous life and have Christ in your Heart the ONLY Sabbath Rest you will ever need.
You cannot get Gods Character by serving a set apart day. God sets us apart for Eternity. Cause we have the Eternal Spirit in US NOW.
If you ever see it let me know ok. I will rejoice to hear it from you.
If a man does not want to believe he will never see the truth. A broken and contrite spirit he has to have and good will listen to his prayer and raise him up to understand the doctrines of Jesus Christ . They fulfill all Moses doctrines. A true Christian will live a Righteous, Holy Life. Gods Sons and Daughters are the “Perfect Masterpiece” that Jesus Christ made us.
All are proclaimed sinners under Moses law. That is what the law does. It convicts but cannot made the come Righteous. Even Moses could not go into the Promise land cause of sin and disobedience. But who forgave him. Paul said it was “Christ” that was in Moses. Moses had the Holy Spirit dear Brother. Whether you know it or not. So did Elijah and the Prophets. Love covers a multitude of sin. Not a saturday gathering. Some people have to go to church to get forgiven. But you do not have to. You can just bow down and ask the Lord to forgive you. Whatever day or hour you are led by God. The Holy Ghost is your GUIDE. sooooo simple.
Out for good this time. No need for more we have said our piece.
Palisade.
beacon737, Jim is 100% correct in this.
You said love covers sin, and a true Christian will live a righteous life. But don’t you realise that the law defines what IS sin and what IS righteousness?
1 John 5:3 “For this IS the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.”
Where did Jesus say that any of the 10 commandments were abolished? They were amplified, not abolished.
nicetiming – read all the above. If you cannot understand it then read it again, and again.
The commandments are doing the Word.
They asked Jesus what must we do to be saved. His answer was simple. Believe in Him who HE has sent. It was Jesus who FULFILLED all the law of Moses. So don’t tell me its about Moses any Longer. Jesus “bought us” and Raised us above the law of Moses. You tradition has made Christ Word of non-affect to you. Just like those in Jesus day. cling to your saturday and to your stone Temple. I am the temple and tabernacle that God lives in NOW – sorry about you all.
The blind lead the blind – half truths are all lies as well. These last days their will be a great falling away. Your de-momination has the name of Icabod on you door Post.
Palisade – The One that fulfilled it all was Jesus Christ by His “Anointing given to us to guide us through ALL SIN.
Sin defined is just plain ole – doubt – you all are living in doubt – sin is doubt that is worth saying again. Sin does not have a Revelation of truth.
Matthew 5:17-20
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
These words came straight from the mouth of Jesus. Those who don’t heed these words are in for a huge surprise when He returns, and even earlier during the tribulation when the mark of the beast is in play.
And note that these verses, unlike the ones further up, do not require custom interpretation (which is contrary to bible commentators) to make the point clear. Fulfill does not mean abolish. It means to fill it to the full – to obey it completely unto death – just as Jesus did. And we are to do the same, or at least to try our best. But to not even bother to try is simply not what God expects us to do.
We all need to have the Holy Spirit within us and to believe Jesus died for our sins. But to believe the commandments are no longer necessary is simply going too far.
Dangerously too far.
Dear Jim
Matt. 5:17 ¶ Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to FULFIL.
Fulfil meaning 4137 » pleroo from 4134- 4130;
AV — fulfil — fill — be full — complete — end
2) to render full, i.e. to complete
2a) to fill to the top: so that nothing shall be wanting to full measure, fill to the brim
2b) to consummate: a number; “to make complete” in every particular, “to render perfect“; “to carry through to the end,” to accomplish, carry out, (some undertaking)
2c) “to carry into effect“, bring to realisation, realise; of matters of duty: to perform, execute; of sayings, promises, prophecies, to bring to pass, ratify, accomplish; to fulfil, i.e. to cause God’s will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God’s promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment
4134 from 4130;
1b) full, i.e. complete; lacking nothing, perfect
Jesus came to do all the above. By sending the Believers the Holy Spirit.
2, Jesus was the “”Foundation stone as well as the Cap Stone”. Its all about Jesus Christ putting the commandments into our Heart and Soul.
3. Jesus is the Alpha and Omega –
It clearly says above when Jesus came the Law was completed and fulfilled by HIM.
Matt. 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
a. Jesus was the -”till all be fulfilled – hello – The Capstone come to His little flock.
Matt. 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and “shall teach men so“, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matt. 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, “”ye shall”” in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
a. So true – the Pharisees etc. thought because they in themselves thought they were superior to other believers. By their works. Jesus called them snakes in the grass, whited tombstones, dead while walking
b. They knew nothing of the Capstone coming and fulfilling the law by the Promise of the Holy Spirit.
c. God Himself entered into His sons and daughters.
Now you explain to me the scriptures below.
Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the “”house of Israel”” know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
ACTS 2:37- ¶ Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, “”Men and brethren, what shall we do“”?
ACTS 2:38- Then Peter said unto them, “”Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,””” and YE shall receive the GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST .
ACTS 2:39- FOR THE PROMISE IS UNTO “YOU” , and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
1. The Holy Ghost is NOT an OPTION it is a MUST HAVE – It is the REAL SABBATH REST –
2. it’s the NEW DAY STAR THAT HAS RISEN INSIDE OF THE ‘REAL ‘ BELIVERS.
3. Have you been Baptised in The Name of Jesus – if so then you are promised the Holy Spirit to come INTO your soul and heart. And you got it EVERY DAY. Bro. Jim can you confess you got the Holy Spirit for a surety.
Explain that to me now verse by verse. You mise well give it up. You will never win this debate. You cannot win it. Because your doctrine of the Sabbath is wrong and you are all going to be guilty of teaching it wrong.
You had better start seeking the Holy Spirit with ALL YOUR H-EAR-T and SOUL – it takes a Spiritual EAR – are you will be the guilty ones
Does your righteousness exceed the scribes and Pharisees doctrines. Think about it.
Palisade
You said “you are promised the Holy Spirit to come INTO your soul and heart”
So if the Sabbath commandment went INTO your heart, why is something else now coming OUT of your heart ??????????
Mat_12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
Luk_6:45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.
So, anything coming out of your heart that is in opposition to the 10 commandments, including number 4, is obviously evil.
Why would Jesus contradict himself, and, after ‘fulfilling’ all the law, now decide to break it? On the contrary, it is now even more binding, being inside our hearts.
Palisade,
I knew you would try to tear apart these verses, I’ve seen it tried before but to no avail. Jesus came not to abolish the law – not one slight bit (jot or tittle) – and yet you try to say that to fulfill is to abolish.
And you failed yo explain why the Sabbath is mentioned so many times in the New Testament including the Book of Revelation, the final book. According to rev 12 the true church (who will escape the tribulation on the wings of an eagle) will “keep the commandments and have the testament of Jesus Christ.“ And we are warned to pray our flight is not in winter or on the Sabbath… just what Sabbath do you think that means? On some say when the Holy Spirit has left you? The commandments and the Sabbath will be in full force in the tribulation.
The true church today (the remnant) will keep the Sabbath and will in no way teach that the commandments are abolished. Tearing down God’s laws sounds like something Satan has been doing since he was cast down from heaven. After failing to kill Christ on earth he turned to His church and has been polluting it for almost 2000 years. It is now as filthy as ancient Babylon and it is about to be destroyed. And most Christians won’t realize this until it is too late. They will instead follow the beast into perdition.
Sorry but it is not enough to give lip service to God by accepting the blood of His son and then thinking you have no further responsibilities.
If you intend to be a good Christian you will have to prove it.Bless
On this subject the truth is exactly as Jim says.
1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1Jn 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
Notice in the above verses that the commandments are part of the truth and the Spirit is the truth ALSO.
They BOTH are the truth.
The commandments and the Spirit go together as both are essential to the truth. So who has the truth in this discussion? …Only those who tell you to keep the Sabbath!
I was reading only this morning in Matt. 24:14 where it says “And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.” — I was reading that the word “witness” here means the Decalogue testimony — and it refers to the nine, NO – the TEN commandments. (If you don’t believe me look up a Strong’s concordance and prove it for yourself.)
So Jesus said the Sabbath and the rest of the commandments would be preached around the world as a witness before the end comes.
Believe me, my friend, the end is almost here, and we just preached THIS same truth to you!
this question is separate from any views on the rest of your comment…..
focus here is witness
you found out it meant decalogue….what is your reference?
here witness was translated this way:
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3142&t=KJV
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?strongs=G3144&t=KJV
I do not see 10 of anything in the lexicon
I’m glad to see that you prove all things. Try this link:
http://www.newjerusalem.org/Strongs/G3142?from=Strongs(G2424).Search(G3142)
It’s in the middle column below the fold.
Here is a copy and paste of it:
G3142
μαρτύριον
marturion
mar-too’-ree-on
Neuter of a presumed derivative of G3144 ; something {evidential} that {is} (generally) evidence given or (specifically) the Decalogue (in the sacred Tabernacle): – to be {testified} {testimony} witness.
robert
ok thanks for that
Jim you said: – Sorry but it is not enough to give lip service to God “”by accepting the blood of His son”” and then thinking you have no further responsibilities.
If you intend to be a good Christian you will have to prove it.
Question: who is saying we have no other responsibility. We are to walk as Christ did.
The Life – is in the Blood cell of Jesus Christ. It raised us up out of sin. He was God and Human with no sex birth. Jesus had the “Blood of God” flowing through His veins. Go ahead and claim your 24 hour day. I “Claim” Jesus Christ everyday and keep His commandments by His Grace. If I do sin I have an Advocate through Jesus Christ as my High Priest. He is also my means of appeasing, a propitiation By having Christ the Anointed One Living IN ME. Jesus the High Priest is my Lawyer, Jury, and Judge – not a certain Holy day.
You remind me of the Brothers who say they are Moses and Elijah. They were 7th. day Adventist. I have read Miss White doctrines as well.
Revelation 12 is history – moving from the O.T to the New Testament in the 1st century. Revelation is all about the “Destruction of Jerusalem” and Israel and the desolation of abomination that EVERY AGE has to go through that deny Jesus Christ. The N.T Church also had its “Wilderness” journey and that was in Rev. 12 – but every “single” Christian will have a Wilderness journey. We have to get sanctified and set apart for Service to God. Then He gives you the Holy Spirit when you obey the command to get Baptized in Jesus Name and receive the Holy Spirit. Because you know you cannot defeat the Enemy and their high walls without the Power of God’s Spirit.
Below is the Wings that takes us over the abomination of desolation.
Mal. 4:2 But unto “you” – “that fear my name”= Jesus Christ ” the Sun of righteousness ARISE with HEALING in his WINGS; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
a. This is to every generation that served God and or our Lord Jesus Christ. It does not say “fear the sabbath”. That was Gods gift for the NATURAL REST that God gave to NATURAL MAN and was just the SHADOW OF THE REAL DELIVERER. Now its a SPIRITUAL REST to ALL who fear Jesus Christ and have rest in their lives and have abundance of Joy, Peace, and gladness and POWER over SIN. And the same Holy Ghost that God is – Lives in us today. Its a NEW DAY DAWNING. The Old way faded out when Jesus Came into existence by the Immaculate Birth. = Spoken word birth.
So you must understand it can be a single person or a congregation of many people who have to go the same way Abraham did. Go through the Wilderness. Out of Bondage of the World.
When God does something He always stays the same so we the believer know what is going on in OUR DAY. Remember it was many years before Moses even came. Adam is in heaven today. As well as all of Abraham’s faithful followers who had NO law. Just Faith by Grace. It took FAITH to cross over the Jordan in Moses day. Moses could not even go over. He sinned by anger.
Read Hebrews the 11 Chapter it tells us how they all overcame the enemy. Even Before Moses, Noah, and Abraham, In the O.T. BY FAITH and BY OBEDIENCE unto the WORD OF GOD.
Fare ye well – Palisade.
All of Jesus Words are all TRUE . He covered the revelation of the 10 Commandments in His Own Message the N.T. = Jesus just fulfilled them.
1. Jesus Words said do not even get “Angry at a person cause that is the beginning of hate and hate can take you to murder someone kill.
2. Do not even look at a woman with lust of adultery. That is more powerful than the Commandment of Moses. It you look you might start having a passion and break the commandment. Jesus is saying dont even let your mind wonder about it. Then you have Overcomed it.
3. Jesus Words are Spiritual guidelines to walking out all of Moses Message. If you have the Spirit living in you. You will not even look and be angry, and will always love the truth.
4. 1 Cor. 13 – You can speak in tongues, do great miracles, have faith to move mountains, you can keep the Sabbath, and prophecy and still be lost. A. Cause you do not have the LOVE of God in your Heart. Love is the Personification of GOD. Jesus is the WORD not just 10 commandments.
5. Jesus Message was all the Word in its right Places and given to men in simplicity. Goes way beyond Moses message which just ended in works when Jesus arrived and told them they were devils to begin with. Jesus Message is Principals that will guide you to turn away from all the sin in all things so the devil cannot I repeat cannot Overcome you.
6. Its the Little fox’s that get through the fence and destroy the man.
The devil will leave a man but come back with 7 more evil spirits that will defile him even more than before. Because He did not have his House filled with the Spirit of Love for God in O.T and or Jesus Christ the Only High Priest in the N.T. and His Wisdom about the 10 Commandments.
7. Many people can by “will power” do many things and think themselves righteous. Yet they are still only religious in mind. And not even close to What Jesus Love is. And what Truth is.
Paul said it and I believe it the way Paul taught it all.
Jesus said Woe unto you religious Pharisee’s and Sadducees. You do this and that and all kinds of Works. But it will not save you.
They kept the Law to Perfection. But they Hated the Word Jesus Gave them.
Palisade
Palisade;
You have just proved my point several times above:
You said, I “Claim” Jesus Christ everyday and keep His commandments by His Grace.“ But you deny the commandments are still valid so you don’t truly keep them, you simply say Grace is the substitute for obedience.
.
You said, We are to walk as Christ did. Christ kept the Sabbath et.al. We must also.
.
You said, When God does something He always stays the same so we the believer know what is going on in OUR DAY. God wrote His laws in stone. Those tablets still exist to this day and may soon be revealed. Would you stand up and yell, “Destroy those tablets, they mean nothing!”?
.
You said, Its the Little fox’s that get through the fence and destroy the man.
And here you are right. To most modern Christians, even those who still believe in the 10 commandments, the Sabbath for some reason doesn’t seem all that necessary. Perhaps they’ve grown up with the traditional Sunday or maybe it just seems “too Jewish.” Well pretty soon we will all see just how Jewish Jesus really is. And the big question will be just how forgiving will He be to to those who do not obey The Word, which certainly contains the commandments.
To love God is to keep His commandments and that includes loving Jesus.
Jim you said -You said, I “Claim” Jesus Christ everyday and keep His commandments by His Grace.
Then you say to me – But you deny the commandments are still valid so you don’t truly keep them, you simply say Grace is the substitute for obedience.
No Jim you are judging me and not reading me at all.
I repeat I Claim Jesus Christ everyday and KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.
You never respond to any of my scriptures. Even the latest. Tell me if you been Baptized in “Jesus Name” and received of the “Holy Spirit”. You ignore everything I say or twist it to your convenience.
A natural day and a Spiritual day has two different meanings.
I have the Spirit that guides me through my life. My heart bears witness with the scriptures. Paul said have you not READ THE LAW you cannot keep it.
Jesus knew that the “works of the flesh” are of “no value” without Faith that worketh by Love – that is what the scripture is telling you. But you cannot receive it. The Holy Spirit is LOVE –
You have been so indoctrinated by a “false doctrine of a demon” you cannot think straight. You cannot except the Scriptures period. In all the above Message I sent you = it was the Scripture. You seem to be to Natural Fleshy to understand it. You will Never understand it without the Holy Spirit.
When you cannot reply back to me all the scriptures I sent you. Then you are not serious about your Soul.
The Sabbath Rest is the Holy Spirit in Everyday of your life. And you have proved you cannot receive it. So no need in talking until you explain the scriptures from above that prove it without a shadow of a doubt.
Why did Jesus say to the Pharisees they were snakes and their father was satan. yet they kept the Sabbath. Hello – They kept all the commandments. The best they could and added more to them thinking that would make them even more righteous. Their wore placers on their wrist and was on their forehead. Yea they had the “Mark of the Beast”. Jesus told them so.
The Evidence you are a Christian is that you Understand the Words of Jesus Christ. And Love Him with ALL your heart, body, mind, and soul. Where does it mention a sabbath in that – how about you looking up a scripture and finding out for yourself. Give up you false prophets and come to Christ in sincerity.
Their is Plenty of Evidence against you in Apostle Paul Epistles that prove it all to you. But you cannot contain it at all. All you possess is a keeping of a certain day. What a easy way out of being a Christian. That would be the easy way out in about any false doctrine invented by satan.
I pray for you to receive the REAL Sabbath into your soul, mind, heart, and will.
Carnality means death and will never enter the gates of the Kingdom. We all need to be Transformed, Transfigured, and Translated into the Kingdom. And it ain’t gonna be by a carnal sabbath 24 hour day.
Real Christians not only Keep the 10 commandments but also keep their conscience clean, and their mind pure from sin and their flesh must be dead to the this world. John said if you Love this world you ain’t got Jesus Christ in you. Don’t matter if you keep the literal saturday or not.
Get transformed and then we can talk more. Why will you die.
Palisade – I love you enough to tell you the truth. I aint angry at no body but the devil who transforms himself into an angel of light to deceive the majority of people. Have you ever thought of your denomination as a satan. You best start thinking about it. Denomination is a “Nicolaitian spirit” of false teachings ruling the common people. Denomination has Beast wrote upon it everywhere.
Jesus or John did not belong to any de-nomination period.
It seems you are saying in order to keep the 4th commandment we must NOT do what the commandment says but what you claim – which is it do nothing other than to recognize that the original commandment is now void and is in our mind or our heart rather than something to do.
You say that keeping the Sabbath is being in league with the devil but I claim the opposite is true. Your scripture have nothing to do with changing one or more commandments, you are misinterpreting them as I have demonstrated with half a dozen bible commentators who I will always believe over someone on a blog site, sorry. If I could find definite confirmation I would believe you but I have already greatly researched the topic and have found your interpretation to be bogus.
But before I continue please clarify whether ALL the commandments are void or ONLY the 4th? All the other commandments tell us what NOT to do, only the 4th asks us to do something. And most people object to it because it is an inconvenience. Most people can’t be bothered to go to church, even on the traditional pagan Sunday and they also don’t want to rest when there are yards to mow and cars to tune up an so on. So we all have reasons to want the 4th commandment to go away. And almost every modern church needs an excuse as to why they meet on Sunday rather than the 7th day. So I have heard all the excuses for many years but the truth is they are only that – excuses, no matter how cleverly concealed they may be.
The time is coming when the mark of the beast will be instituted. It will be the breaking of a commandment, specifically the 4th. Those who follow it, or at least try, will not receive the 7 last plagues. Those who do not, will suffer. So you can see why I am passionate about my beliefs. If I am right then your teaching could cause much future suffering, which already going to be extensive even without your help. The mark of the beast is already in full force throughout the Christian world so when the tribulation arrives taking the mark won’t even be a conscious choice for most people.
BTW, I am not an SDA member, nor of any organized church. I am disabled and don’t get out, nor do I work any more. So every day is a “rest” to me but I still know the Sabbath is a real thing and I honor it as the day the Lord blessed and made holy. It is a special day to God therefore it is special day to me. By saying every day is special only means you think they are all the same. You and God don’t think the same way then, do you?
Or do you claim that God has changed His mind?
Jim, again I think you are spot on with your remarks about the Sabbath.
Palisade, it is interesting that this thread is supposed to be about red heifers, as that subject also relates to obedience to the Sabbath command, as I will try to explain in the following:
First, let’s look at Num 19:2 This is the ordinance of the law which the LORD hath commanded, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, that they bring thee a RED heifer without spot, wherein is no blemish, and upon which never came yoke.
Do you think God would have been satisfied with a WHITE heifer, when he asked for red?
Would you argue with God and tell him that white stands for righteousness, and is even better than red?
Just as you might say that the 1st day is even better than the 7th – but God wants the 7th. Just as God actually wanted a RED heifer. Who knows, perhaps God had in mind white heifer disease, or something – ref. http://www.rightdiagnosis.com/medical/white_heifer_disease.htm
The point is, you have to believe God knows what he is doing.
Check out a few verses down from Numbers 19:2 and look at 19:19-20.
Num 19:19 And the clean person shall sprinkle upon the unclean on the third day, and on the seventh day: and on the seventh day he shall purify himself, and wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and shall be clean at even.
Num 19:20 But the man that shall be unclean, and shall not purify himself, that soul shall be cut off from among the congregation, because he hath defiled the sanctuary of the LORD: the water of separation hath not been sprinkled upon him; he is unclean.
Do you really think God did not mean what he said here? Would he have accepted a person bathing on the 1st. day and saying they were clean? It says if they did this that soul shall be cut off from among the congregation.
So it is in the case of the Sabbath.
Just like a white heifer, a 1st. day rest doesn’t suffice when God says differently. No matter how much you try to spiritualise it away, 7 is not 1, or 2,3,4,5, or 6. Only the 7th. day will do – inside your heart or outside your heart.
7 is always for God as it’s God’s special number picturing His covenant with man and picturing the 7th. “day” millennium after 6 thousand years of man’s rule.
God knows what he wants. He does NOT want Sunday keeping. He wants obedience to Him as a special sign to show that you are one of his special people, and sanctified by Him.
Eze 20:12 Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.
Dear Robert and Jim – the 8th. day is the New Beginning. Yes its in the Bible.
Which is Sunday as well. But to worship on Saturday or Sunday or Wednesday is not sinning. The Idea is that you go the the Assembly. In the Bible God only required ALL the people to gather together in 3 Feast days. That was all Israel. So try and have a open mind to these things. 7 is the complete – 8 means New beginning. The New Creation of Jesus Christ raising from the dead was on the 8th. day.
Palisade
I meant to say – In the Bible God only required ALL the people to gather together in 3 Feast days. In a 1 year time. That was all Israel
Palisade
That is a common explanation for the change to Sunday worship but it is not true. The Romans forced the change on the young church and made them keep all the statues in their temples. So the church deleted the 2nd commandment and just ignores the 4th and continues to meet on the Roman’s day. The main reason for this is the Council of Laodicea whose decree begins with “Thou shalt not Judaize” meaning that Christians were not to anything that the church deemed “too Jewish” including making sure that Easter never falls on the same day as Passover.
But no excuse will ever trump a commandment. They were written in stone by God Himself for a reason. I can’t find a single valid reason for thinking any man could think to change laws and times. Daniel warned that the beast would try to do this, and today they “think” they changed the commandments but they will soon discover the folly of their ways.
Painfully.
Dear Binnion and Bro. Jim –
JOHN 7:16 Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
a. We know that the Apostles were sent men to us. That includes Apostle Paul as well who wrote 1/3 of the N.T teachings.
JOHN 7:17 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.
a. the Holy Spirit guides you to the 5 fold ministry in Eph. 4 to mature you.
JOHN 7:18 – He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.
“”JOHN 7:19 – Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me? “”
a. Like I have told both of you. NONE kept the law. These denominational vipers were seeking to actually kill Jesus yet thought they were keeping the law. How can a man be that insane for his religion.
JOHN 7:20 The people answered and said, Thou hast a devil: who goeth about to kill thee?
JOHN 7:21- Jesus answered and said unto them, I have done one work, and ye all marvel.
“”JOHN 7:22 Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers;) and ye on the sabbath day circumcise a man. “”
a. circumcision is the cutting off of the flesh that separates you from the worlds character. It identifies your New Character of a Christ follower. That is what Christ did for us. By the Holy Spirit living and abiding IN US. To give us Power over the Flesh man . The Father sent us Jesus Christ to die for all our sins and then Raise us up into another dimension of Character. By the Same Spirit that was in Christ lives in Us now. We are Overcomers of all sin.
JOHN 7:23 If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?
JOHN 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.
JOHN 7:25 Then said some of them of Jerusalem, Is not this he, whom they seek to kill?
Notice how doctrines of men can become murderous even. Do not judge a man by your saturday worship. You could be actually doing satans work and don’t know it and think you are righteous. The Message of our day. Is the Lord Jesus Christ living in our New Soul, with a New Spirit that came down from Heaven into us. We did not earn it. Jesus earned it for us. He Bought and Paid for our salvation by HIS Death, Burial, and Resurrection.
I’m not saying every SDA is going to hell=2nd death. Only God knows the Spirit of man that is in him. If you are yet carnal you are not Born from Above Apostle Paul agrees with me on that one as well.
But we should be able to discern right from wrong. And not get caught up in a Spirit of error as Paul says. Most cults have a single message that tells on them. That’s all they know and have been taught. And know nothing else.
Dear Jim I do not know if you have the Holy Spirit or not. I do not know you that well or Mr. Binnion. But the Holy Ghost is your Mark of God. That is the ONLY UNCTION that you Need to fulfill and become an Overcomer that loves Jesus Christ and Obeys Him from the heart and mind and kills the flesh man. So Christ can live through him. days, new moons, sabbaths, Paul said who has bewitched you to leave the FAITH so soon. He did not give them a favorable reply that is for sure. Faith is Believing the Word of God. That ONLY JESUS CHRIST can give you. Christ takes the mystery out of the the O.T and applies it to you by the HOLY SPIRIT.
Circumcision is the cutting off of the flesh. Represents the Holy Spirit taking over your flesh man in ALL things. You become a Spiritual Man.
The Sabbath is the “:Rest that Christ said to Come unto me and I will give you rest. So why would Christ be speaking of a rest that Moses gave. Jesus was speaking of a New Rest which is the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the Law of Christ. NOW in the N.T. I pray for you both that your eyes be opened to the real truth of salvation.
If the O.T was working out right. Then why did Christ have to come. Good question. Jesus said NONE keep the law. They could not because they had not the Holy Spirit within them. Yet the Prophets and David and many others like Abraham and the Fathers of the faith had the Holy Spirit.
The law had to become open to show man kinds sins to them. The 10 Commandments were given knowing that no one could do them. That is what Jesus Said. The Holy Spirit was with Abraham, Moses and the Fathers. They did it even without the Law. Their are alot more sins than just ten of them. Their is 17 in Galations and or Romans. 10 is mans number – 7 is Gods people’s number. Paul said we are Complete = 7 in Christ. We lack nothing.
If you do write back how about using some scriptures to prove your points. Just your mind with out scriptures do not mean much.
Palisade – PS you both have never said how you was Baptized in the faith. Was it in the Name of Jesus our Lord. Did you get filled with the Holy Spirit. Do you possess the Holy Spirit IN YOU.
Why cannot you tell me just plainly when you had your New Birth. I had mind on March 6th. 1970. I still plainly remember the Spirit of God consuming me with His love and goodness. While on my knees as a 22 year old boy and many praying around me on their knees helping me to receive by their prayers for me.
Have you ever done that. Just wondering.
Palisade, if your ‘born again’ experience lead you to believe that the Holy Spirit contradicts Scripture, which clearly teaches Christians to keep the Sabbath literally, as well as spiritually, as soon as they come to understand it, then your ‘born again’ experience was a false deception, quite likely involving demons.
The ‘born again’ teaching in the Bible is another subject which I don’t have time to go into here, but my general stance on it can be understood by reading the following link:
http://www.cogwriter.com/born.htm
Bottom line: Upon receiving the Holy Spirit, Christians are begotten, not born again, by God (cf. 1 Peter 1:3; 1 John 5:1), then after a period of spiritual growth/gestation (cf. 2 Peter 3:18), Christians will – future tense -literally be born again at the resurrection (John 3:5-7) as Christ the ‘first born’ was (Romans 1:4-5).
By the way, like Jim, I also am not an SDA, and not part of any other man made group, including the one in the link I’ve used. However, many years ago ( Tabernacles/ LGD 1972) I was baptised with laying on of hands, however I have grown in understanding since then, and realise that the the WCG I attended back then often lacked quite a bit of understanding in several key areas. Having said that, I think they were also correct in many areas – keeping the Sabbath being one of them, and their born again understanding being another.
I’m 100% convicted that the sabbath was NOT changed by anyone in the very early church. Not by Paul or anyone. If it were, Acts 18:4 would most likely say “And he (Paul) reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks to keep Sunday.” But that’s not at all what it says. If I’m reading it right it says he taught a year and six months there on the sabbath – full stop.
Anyhow, I don’t want to overdo my comments. My apologies if I’ve come on a little too strong here.
Here is a sample of scriptures I pulled up easily by googleing “Must we obey the commandments?”
The experience of salvation by faith does not obviate God’s requirement that we obey His law. Quite the contrary, the New Testament explains that faith results in the law being established in the heart of the believer. Paul wrote to the Romans, “Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law” (Rom. 3:31). Because the law is the standard (although not the means) of righteousness it points out our sin. Paul exclaimed, “If it had not been for the law, I would not have known sin. I would not have known what it is to covet if the law had not said, ‘You shall not covet'” (ROM 7:7). Paul saw the law as holy, just, good, and spiritual (verses 12, 14). There is no suggestion that he rejected the law because it was nailed to the Cross.
James agreed with Paul by teaching that disobedience to any one of the Ten Commandments is tantamount to rejection of the total law of God. James clarifies which law he is speaking of. “For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it. For the one who said, ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ also said, ‘You shall not murder.’ Now if you do not commit adultery but if you murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty” (James 2:10-12). Hence, the Ten Commandments are a law of liberty, not a burden.
This is exactly what John wrote: “For the love of God is this, that we obey his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome, for whatever is born of God conquers the world. And this is the victory that conquers the world, our faith. Who is it that conquers the world but the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?” Conquering the world is obeying God’s commandments, and the one who has this conquering power is the born-again believer.
Jesus left us in no doubt about His standard of righteousness. We are not even to think that He came to abolish the law. “Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets; I have come not to abolish but to fulfill” (Matt. 5:17). Anyone who dares to teach that one of God’s established commandments is not binding will be rejected by heaven (verse 19). We know what set of laws Jesus meant because he quoted the Ten Commandments (verses 21, 27).
Some have argued that Jesus’ interpretation amounted to an abolition of the Ten, because He emphasized the importance of the spirit of the law rather than the letter. The fact is that Jesus gave a more strict interpretation of the law than was generally accepted. The spirit of the law does not exclude the letter; it goes beyond it to show what the commandments really mean. The command that says, “You shall not murder” means that Christians are not to lose their tempers with their neighbors or cherish hatred in their hearts (Matt. 5:21, 22). The command, “You shall not commit adultery” means that impure thoughts must not be cherished. Jesus exalted the standard far above what many of His contemporaries thought necessary. He did not abolish the Ten Commandments; He established them permanently as God’s standard of righteousness.
Hebrews 10:28, 29 warns of the danger of violating the law of Moses: “Anyone who has violated the law of Moses dies without mercy ‘on the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by those who have spurned the Son of God, profaned the blood of the covenant by which they were sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace?” In ancient Israel, the death penalty was to be meted out for rebellious violation of one of the Ten Commandments (Exod. 21:12, 15-17; 31:14, 15; Lev. 20:2, 9, 10, 13). The covenant referred to in Hebrews 10:29 is the everlasting covenant which involves the Ten Commandments written on believers’ hearts (Heb. 10:16, 17). Violating the law of Moses was, and still is, tantamount to violating our covenant relationship with Christ.
All of these contradict your interpretations.
As for your circumcision argument, while the Jewish ceremonial laws are not required by Christians, the fact that circumcisions were done on the Sabbath does not mean that the Sabbath was done away with when circumcisions became unnecessary. That not only is false logic it is dishonest.
You seem to be under the false impression that being baptized and accepting the Holy Spirit means that the Holy Spirit enters you and makes you a perfect Christian and gives you proper understanding of all things biblical.
But I see that you are misinformed about several biblical truths. For example, you mentioned that Adam and other Old Testament figures are now in heaven so I assume you believe the just go there at death. But that is not what the Jews including Jesus taught. They taught the dead sleep in their graves (sheol or Hades) until they are resurrected (born again) by the Messiah. You also mentioned hell, which is also not in the bible nor taught by Jesus but rather an invention of the Catholic church.
So I can clearly see that the Holy Spirit has not blessed you with several bible truths so your rejection of the commandments does not surprise me. And I’m guessing you think the mark of the beast will be a computer chip or barcode or something similarly non-biblical, as many people believe.
But as I said, the whole world will follow the beast – completely fooled – waiting for an antichrist that will never come.
But that is prophecy and can’t be changed, especially by one man like myself. All I can do is prepare people for a future they don’t believe in but may recognize when it arrives. Perhaps someday you will remember my words when the tribulation arrives and it does not look the way you expected. That’s the best I can do.
The rest will be up to you.
Dear Jim
JOHN 6:28- ¶ Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the “”works of God?””
JOHN 6:29- Jesus answered and said unto them, “”This is the work of God“””, “”””that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.”””””
a. So simple a baby should be able to understand it.
JOHN 6:30- They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
JOHN 6:31- Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.
Answer = JOHN 6:32- Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
JOHN 6:33- For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
JOHN 6:34- Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
JOHN 6:35- And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
JOHN 6:36- But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, “””and believe not“””.
a. They kept the Sabbath what happened to these.
JOHN 6:37- All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
JOHN 6:38- For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
JOHN 6:39- And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
JOHN 6:40- And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
a. JOHN 6:41- The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.
b. The Jew as a whole could never understand the Spiritual meaning of Scripture – Just like todays church.
JOHN 6:42- And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?
a. They did not believe in the Virgin birth either though it was is Isaiah as plain as could be – they passed over it. Also they did not understand Isa. 53 one of the most important prophecies in the Bible.
JOHN 6:43- Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
JOHN 6:44- No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
a. it’s the Spirit that has to draw you into the Word Mysteries.
JOHN 6:45- It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
a. This man Jesus was greater than Moses, and all the prophets. Jesus completed what they started in a shadow. Meaning did not quiet understand Gods way.
JOHN 6:46- Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
JOHN 6:47- Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
JOHN 6:48- I am that bread of life.
JOHN 6:49-Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
– yea they kept the Sabbath- what happened to them. They had NO FAITH.
JOHN 6:50- This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.
a. Die is death – Having not the Spirit of God in you is death.
God bless you – Palisade
What John was talking about here was the fact that we are saved by grace by the blood of Jesus. He died for our sins so that we may have eternal life. That is true but it does not mean we are allowed to continue to sin after we have accepted Jesus as our savior. We are saved by grace but we are rewarded by works.
Rev 20:12
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
So there is no doubt that your works (your obedience to the law) will be part of your judgement. Those who disobey will be the least in the kingdom of God.
Revelation tells us that those who take part in the first resurrection (at the Second Coming) will be priests and teachers in the millennium. And they will rule over the kingdoms of the earth, so there will be rewards for our obedience and it follows that there will be punishment for disobedience in the form of the mark of the beast. And who knows what we will get for teaching disobedience!.
So, I will concede to you that we are saved by grace and grace alone and we will be forgiven for our sins. But you defy the law at great risk to your eternal soul. Do you really want to spend eternity with the dregs of Christianity? Sure you can squeak by without the commandments but you will wish for eternity you had known better. And if you make it to the tribulation you will regret rejecting the Sabbath commandment – big time.
But you will have lots of company if that’s any consolation. As for becoming a pries and teacher in the millennium, well, that may be a problem. Remember that the remnant true church is one that keeps the commandments (rev 12) so someone teaching against the commandments may be of little use to God, even with repentance. I don’t know, so I can’t say, but I prefer not to take any chances, therefore I have become a Sabbath keeper, for no there reason to please God with the hopes of a reward in the millennium. Like you I have been saved by the blood of Christ but I prefer to follow God’s laws and not attempt to change them, as many churches have done.
The book of Daniel says that the end-time beast will “think to change laws and times” and the only law involving a time is the fourth. This will be the final test for Christians. Those who follow the law will avoid the mark of the beast, those who don’t (most) will suffer the plagues. After the plagues believe me, no one will ever think that Sunday is the lord’s day ever again and the Sabbath will finally be taken seriously. But it will take something like the mark to convince modern Christians who are so ingrained with thousand year-old traditions that they simply refuse to budge from their common but incorrect views. It will be a sort of modern day version of the flood where the remnant church is akin to Noah’s family and the rest of the sinners are punished for their disobedience.
Sounds exactly like something God would do, eh?
Bless..
Dear Jim
Do we agree Noah had the Grace and Faith to build the Ark. For 120 years. Incidentally their were 120 in the upper room when the Holy Spirit fell upon them with tongues of fire and filled them with the Holy Spirit. They were 120 posts holding up the temple. Yet the old temple and its priest passed away and the N.T went into the Jerusalem that is Above the Mother of us all. Galatians. We all have to have Grace and Mercy and Keep the Commandments. Which we all break at times. Meaning we sin – And you or me if we sin we have an High Priest that now forgives us. If NOT then we would be Lost in our sins with no hope.
I have a wife and Im in a Marriage with her. If every time I left the house I had to write out all my laws to my wife while I was gone. And then tell her if she done any of the things I wrote. I would divorce her immediately. And I would divorce her. Well that was the law. But God had to have Grace to forgive. Even with the Law. “””David say if God would Mark are iniquities who could stand.”””” answer none of us.
But God always had Grace. A marriage does come with just law’s. BUT with “”just law only”” the marriage would be terrible to the couple. Cause the husband is a jealous man and does not trust her and or have faith in her. What kind of Marriage would that be. A terrible marriage to say the least.
And Yet if that same couple had “”true Love and Grace”” in their Marriage. It would be a blessing to both. If one failed the other. Grace and love for her would cover her sin and you would forgive. Amen. Even though you had the right to put her away forever. But Love, and Grace, and Faith in the relationship is of up most importance. Perfect Love casteth out ALL fear.
When their is Perfect love in a Marriage why would anyone want to cheat or sin on their Marriage Partner. This is the true way Jesus Brought to us. Their are some people who just cannot maintain in a Marriage contract.
They have no love and do not fear the word and will not humble themselves to the Lord thy God — Isa.
Noah, and Abraham, and the forefathers – Had the Grace and Faith to believe God.
I believe a lot what you posted above. We not that far off. God gave Noah His message and Noah did it. If Noah had not done it. He would have failed the “”word test”” and God would have got someone else to build the Ark.
But God knew Noah had the Faith and Grace because he kept his blood line pure from sin. Noah proved to God he Loved the Lord and God gave him power to overcome all the obstacles he had to go through.
Talk at you later. Palisade.
Nice post. We may not be on the same page yet but we may be in the same chapter!
Bless, brother.
The thing about keeping the Sabbath and other law requirements is that it stinks of “WORKS” and satisfies the flesh. Anything that is done in the flesh is NOT of the Spirit. It is based on YOU doing something for your salvation and that is NOT profitable.
Commendation comes form the LAW. In Christ it is fulfilled and HIS rest is not just one day a week it is 24-7. Honor Christ by acknowledging HIS work at the cross.
C V,
There is a huge flaw in your logic here. When you say that works “stink” you are of course referring to the Ten Commandments so I will deal with those.
If doing work involves following the commandments, then how do you not follow thou shalt not steal, murder or commit adultery for example?
Simple logic dictates that to NOT follow these means that we MUST kil, steal and commit adultery, along with all the others. So we SHOULD have other gods above Him, right? And we SHOULD pray to graven images, correct?
If you haven’t killed anyone lately then you are doing good work. Same with all the others. You can kill and honor Christ simply by yelling “Praise jesus” as you pull the trigger.
The problem with the 4th commandment is that it is the only one that asks us do something rather than to simply do nothing. Add to that the fact that it was forced to be broken by the Romans 1700 years ago and almost every modern church continues to ignore it make it impossible to fix. Except perhaps punishing all who break it with a series of painful plagues.
So I know how this goes, you will claim you keep the other commandments because they are all BAD things and no decent person would lie, cheat and steal etc. So you are obeying those laws either because they are also civil laws or you think they are simply bad things and you just shouldn’t do them, regardless whether God said not to or not. In other words you are making up your own laws and they just happen to coincide with some of God’s laws.
So guess what… only the Sabbath commandment doesn’t fit into your personal ethics. How convenient. The only thing God asks you to do you can now ignore. Just another excuse. All the churches have them in one form or another.
I believe there are certain preachers out there that teach this blasphemy just to increase their flocks. Who wouldn’t want to attend a church where all God’s laws were null and void. Believe in Jesus and you’re good to go. Party all day, do drugs, rape women, rob liquor stores… it’s all good – you’re SAVED by the blood of Christ! Welcome to the Church of no Work! Jesus paid for your admission and you now get a free ride to eternity.
These churches are all part of Babylon and will be destroyed before Christ returns to marry the true church which according to Revelation 12 “keeps the commandments of God’s and has the testament of Jesus Christ.” Why would Jesus tell John such a thing (twice) if you are correct and the commandments don’t matter? Ignore these verses at your own peril my friends.
But there is yet another problem here. Works go beyond the Ten Commandments and include the most important work – to save souls and to spread the word of God. We are all commanded to do this as good Christians and it is the reason we are all on this web site. Right now I am working for God by upholding His law and teaching the same to others. You are also here but to do the opposite. But the point is, you are here in an attempt to do good works for God, just like I am. The difference is that when you pray to Him you must ask forgiveness for doing works and I thank Him for the opportunity to do His work.
So why are you here doing works of the flesh? To tell us not to do what you do? Do you see the lack of logic I mentioned earlier? Your whole argument just can’t be reconciled from the standpoint of simple logic, not to mention it isn’t biblical. The New Testament is filled with references to keeping the commandments and being judged by our works and you are simply ignoring them all in order to uphold your beliefs.
As I said before, we are SAVED by grace and grace alone, but we are still expected to keep the commandments. We are definitely not supposed to intentionally break them, including the 4th. There are rewards waiting for us if we keep the commandments. Being a part of the first resurrection for example, and the honor of ruling part of the earth and eventually the universe. These rewards far outweigh not keeping the commandments. Jesus said, “If you love me keep my commandments.” If you refuse you will find His love may have waxed cold in the afterlife. You get what you give. Give nothing, get nothing. So when you say the commandments are void, you are really telling Jesus you have no love for Him. That is correct logic.
Deal with it.
Bless.
god said
if you love me, keep my commandments
that’s it
amen
we agree
C V, you said the law and the Sabbath stinks of works, but I’m here to tell you that nothing about God’s law stinks.
I understand that Galatians 2:16 says a man is not justified by works of the law, but James 2:24 says by works a man IS justified, and not by faith only, …so James seems to say that works actually are required (but the thief on the cross did not have time for works, and so it is true that in fact Christ saves us, not works).
But why this apparent contradiction?
I think maybe Paul was against the oral law and traditions of the Jews, but NOT the 10 commandments, or the Sabbath which he upheld, observing the Sabbath always.
For example, see Acts 18:4 and 11 where it says Paul taught the Corinthians for a year and a half on the Sabbath, without even a hint that he also held Sunday services.
If anyone else can answer this apparent contradiction between Galatians and James I’d like to hear it.
agreed
the oral tradition is still followed today by orthodox.
the rules they follow would drive you crazy…..
they cannot pick up a pencil on sabbath, nor take a bath, nor drive, they cannot even tear a paper towel off the towel rack…and the list goes on…..
To All who will read scripture:
GALATIANS 5:23- Meekness, temperance: “against such there is no law”.
GAL 5:14 For all the “”law is fulfilled”” in one word””, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
GAL 5:16 This I say then, “”Walk in the Spirit””, and “”ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh””.
GAL 5:18- But if ye be”” led of the Spirit””, ye are “””not under the law”””.
GALATIANS 5:19- Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
17 works of the flesh: the Sabbath is not mentioned but the sins below will keep you out of Heaven:
GALATIANS 5:20- Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
GALATIANS 5:21- Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
GALATIANS 5:22- But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
GALATIANS 5:23- Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Against such There is no law.
Anybody ought to be able to understand this.
Palisade
Paul is referring to the ceremonial Hebrew laws such as circumcision, not the commandments.
GALATIANS 5:21- Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Clearly, doing certain things will keep you out of the kingdom. Paul covered these things elsewhere and there are plenty of verses by Paul which refer to keeping the commandments. Here he is saying that just being a good Jew – following the Jewish laws including circumcision – are not by themselves going to get you into the kingdom any more. In place of the ceremonial traditions there is now only the need to believe in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ in order to enter the kingdom – the old “works” are of no real value any more.
So you can eat pork and cheeseburgers and don’t need to be circumcised among hundreds of other “Jewish” laws that were nailed to the cross, but you aren’t given a free pass into the kingdom and you are expected to follow some guidelines in conducting your life, as mentioned by Paul above.
Nowhere will you find a verse that says any commandment has been rescinded. If there were such a verse you would have went right to it and when the Ten Commandments are posted in any church the deleted one(s) would not be listed, so your argument is all circumstantial.
As for the 4th commandment, I don’t believe we Christians need to do all the things the Jews do nor are we severely limited to what we can and cannot do, especially simple things like turning on a light or the stove or opening the fridge. If we follow the commandment, to do no servile work and to keep the day holy we are probably going to be just fine, but only time will tell.
One thing I know we are NOT supposed to do is to pretend or to teach that the commandment is not to be followed and that to do so “Stinks.”
Bless.
Palisade, this link may help you understand Galatians better: http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Galatians
Dear Jim – If you and Robert could just understand what a REVELATION of FAITH is we would not be having these discussions.
Either of you have NEVER said you Possess the Holy Spirit – The Comforter. As Commanded by Peter in Acts 2:38 – the people said What must we do to be saved. Their is you answer plain as day.
I have gave you both many scriptures. That are just plain literal. But I have also gave you scripture that you have to take Spiritual. The N.T Sabbath is a Spiritual Rest, Comforter, Guide, it the Revealed Word by the SPIRIT – That Spirit is GOD He is Mightier than a one day gathing on a saturday.
Jesus came and had to die for something. Answer = So we could be translated, Transformed, Transfigured into a SON OF GOD. The called the early church “Little Jesus” Cause they had Jesus in them and they acted like Jesus. Paul was the One that God called out by the HOLY GHOST to REVEAL the Message to the Gentile and Also to the Jews. You have to notice the Pauls revelation was the revelation of Jew and Gentile. The other Apostles went to the Jews as Peter led by the Lords Spirit said and they did.
Yes it takes time for a “begotten child of God to mature” into a NEW REVELATION. Just like today. We see all the fractions of little truths on every forum. But we all should understand the Basics of the Gospel. Which America and the World do not even seem to understand the basics. Paul said it just right. Babies that cannot eat meat. And they wanted to stay that way,.
We are so hard nosed today that its PRIDE that would rather die than to change. Look at the Pharisee’s and Sadduces. A pitiful excuse for a church after 2,058 years when Abraham started the Old Testament Israel. Abraham with out by FAITH – A REVELATION from the WORD OF GOD STRAIGHT TO HIM. And He picked up and left out to find the City of God
Jesus Christ is that City of God the NEW Jerusalem from above.
Jeru- living waters – Salem – Peace, love , Joy —
I am already enjoying my New City from Above. The New Jerusalem. The Old things have passed away.
Palisade. Let your mind think out side of your pocket doctrine. The Spirit will reveal Himself to you. And let the Holy Spirit of Promise that Joel said Israel would receive. And Peter quoted much of it to all. Be baptized in Jesus Name for REMISSION of SINS = its a healing process – after you accept the Holy Spirit into your heart which is Jesus Christ. Christ is the ANOINTING.
The Holy Ghost will never take you INTO SIN. It takes you out of SIN.
To answer your question (which should have been obvious) I HAVE asked for forgiveness of sin and received the Holy Spirit. And when I did I promised to sin no more, just as Jesus told the woman He saved from stoning.
But what is to “sin no more?” And what were those sins I had to repent of? Sins are trespassing of the law – the commandments, So if you sinned, you broke the law and after receiving the Holy Spirit you are called to follow Jesus’ example and to not sin again (to the best of your ability, of course).
Bit if the law ended on the cross, then we have nothing to repent of. Otherwise the law is abolished only after we receive Christ, but that is not what you are saying either. You either love God and follow his commandments or you don’t. And what are you if you don’t even try? A poor Christian in my eyes.
So what is a sin, in your faith? Name a few things that you believe are sins. Logic dictates, no law = no sin. So if the law is abolished it is no longer possible to sin. If you are right then God would have no reason to destroy the false church (Babylon) in Revelation. The great and terrible day of the lord would have no reason. What might He be so mad about? No laws means people could act any way they want. Hell, they could even KEEP the old laws and that would be fine too, right? Or are you trying to say that there is no law, EXCEPT in keeping the law?
Do you see the twisted illogical path you are going down here? All I can say is that your God is a real author of confusion. When you begin to break down and dissect your concept it becomes nonsensical. It can’t be reconciled with the rest of the bible and while you may think you have proof by the way you defining certain bible verses the bible commentators all prove you wrong. Tell me, do you also believe in the rapture, because that is another concept that is always proven with the same group of verses, out of context and misinterpreted, that so many people believe in simply because they want it to be true.
Final thought,,,
Your last comment:
The Holy Ghost will never take you INTO SIN. It takes you out of SIN.
Exactly what do you mean here by the word “SIN?”
beacon737, are you trying to say that if we had the Holy Ghost, we would think like you do, and not keep the law?
I believe that it is quite likely because we do have the Holy Spirit that we DON’T think like you do… We actually think like Paul did, who also had the holy spirit and said in Romans 3:31 Do we then overthrow the Law by this faith? By no means. On the contrary, WE UPHOLD THE LAW.
Here’s an excerpt clarifying this verse from that link I referred you to last time, in case you missed it:
Finally, to ensure that the Romans did not misundertand his stance on the Law, Paul summed up the relationship of faith to the Law. Paul first asks if our FAITH overthrows (Gr. katargoumen – “nullifies,” “makes void,” “destroys”) the Law. Answering his own rhetorical question, Paul emphatically states “NO WAY!” using a strong negative Greek phrase (me genoito).
Paul finishes by stating that instead of our faith nullifying the Law, it should motivate us to uphold (Gr. histomen – “establish,” “make valid,” “confirm”) the Law. It’s amazing that anyone could misconstrue the plain meaning of these words. But unfortunately, most of the Christian world has done just that.
to you both:
Here is what Jim said to me in the last post.
Jim said -So what is a sin,
Answer I have told you several times. That Sin is “””” Doubt””””. All doubt in the Word of God is sin.
Sin is Doubt. This is why you all cannot understand any of what I say.
Take this into your heart. Doubt – have you ever had doubt. You better believe you have. And that is SIN = unbelief. We have all sinned and come short of the glory of God. Yet we Have a HIGH PRIEST that does not have to cleanse himself to forgive you. Its not like the PRIEST of Moses Law. They had to go through a ceremony for 7 days and be Pure before they could ask forgiveness “””” for them selves first”””” before they could ever pray for their brother and sisters. So EVEN their PRIEST ALL HAD SINNED. ALONG WITH ALL THE PEOPLE.
You all do not understand “God head” and that is why you cannot understand true doctrines of “Spiritual things”.
You both need to know that Jesus was not a SINNER . He was All God and All human and never did sin. Their would have been no since in having a N.T. and Jesus would not have died. But I understand that is mostly way to deep for the average Christian. Its a Mystery. Just as the REAL SABBATH is GOD LIVING IN YOU – But you do not understand that the Anointing that Jesus had came to live in you both. And He looks at you as SINLESS because you are His CHILD and HE LOVED YOU SO MUCH. God hated sin so much that HE SWARE by HIMSELF . Other words He became a man by His own Spoken Word. Read Rev. 5 – God became the Kinsmen redeemer. No man was sinless period before Christ came.
The Pharisees and etc. could not receive that. They actually called Christ the Anointed one a devil.
You both judge me but your Natural Sabbath will not save you and or forgive you for your sins of un-belief. Don’t try and tell me that you have never sinned because you keep a natural day called a sabbath. I will never believe that you have not sinned cause everyone has and does sin most everyday in their mind and have doubts at times of trials after receiving Jesus Christ. SIN IS DOUBT- that comes with suffering, trials of your faith, even Jesus Christ was tried of satan yet did not sin.
Im telling you I have sinned in my life yet God that lives in Me forgives me. For I “”Tremble at His Word”” and I am “Contrite in Spirit” not high minded. The “Real Spiritual Sabbath” forgives cause that is God = The Lord – Jesus- and the Holy Ghost these 3 are ONE Living IN ME. I’m ONE with God. Not a “natural saturday” It is completely ridiculous you both cannot see simple things of the Spirit. I’m not trying to make you mad at me. Im trying to help you both to see the Spiritual side so you can understand the Word for this day.
JOHN 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
JOHN 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may “”be made perfect in one””; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
1 Cor. 12:9 And he said unto me, “”My grace”” is sufficient for thee: for my “”strength is made perfect”” in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the “””power of Christ”” may “”rest”””= peace, joy, faith, love, patience, Gal. 5:22.
Gal. 3:2 This only would I learn of you, “”Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law,””” or by the hearing of faith?
a. simple answer isn’t it. Remember Abraham by Faith
Gal. 3:3- “”Are ye so foolish?””” having “”begun in the Spirit”””, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
a. keeping a saturday worship is alright but it does not save you UNLESS it is a the “””SPIRITUAL day of the Lord”” come into your soul and heart etc””.
b. Their is a “”Day of the Lord come”””. INTO YOU.
Eph. 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
a. I use to go to church on Tues, Thurs, Saturday, and Sunday for years.
b. according to you all . You judge me as a sinner.
Eph. 4:15 – But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
a. What is the most important thing in the N.T doctrines. = Jesus Christ
Heb. 7:19 “”For the law made nothing perfect””, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
a. Men still sinned amen. How about a amen.
b. The sabbath did not make them perfect –
Heb. 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a “”greater and more perfect tabernacle”””, “””not made with hands”””, that is to say, not of this building;
a. We are the Temple of God NOW and HE Tabernacles IN US. Yes Praise God forever. Stone buildings that God used under the Law. Became Jesus Christ INTO ME. Not made with hands. Its Spiritual now. The New Jerusalem is SPIRITUAL . The Born again without hands is Me and You if you could have Faith and receive it. But you are both hung up on a sabbath day law.
Jesus told His disciples how long must I bear with thee. They walked 3 years with the Master. And did not understand hardly nothing HE told them.
Until they received the Holy Spirit then they were not afraid anymore and become Bold in the Lord and said Let us be in the Word of God continually.
Jesus is the one that for 40 days taught them and they sure believed after that what it was all about. Yet they had to grow as well. Peter had to receive 3 visions from Christ before He would even enter a Roman’s house. Hello, the Romans – received the Word with gladness the Bible says. And Peter got a “”Revelation= Faith that gentiles also could receive of the SPIRIT of God. Why because they spoke in a “supernatural tongue” that the Jews talked in and the Jews with Peter understood Roman lanquage – it was a miracle. And it still is. Peter said they should be Baptized as well. yea in Jesus name. Peter taught that. Rome church changed it.
You both have come to late to try and convince me of wrong doctrine. I have spent most of my life studying the Bible from all sides of every kind of doctrine. I have also always had a open mind. But Now I know what is the Truth.
Wake up dear brothers. And strengthen the things that remain.
Palisade
Tom,
Answer one question in all of this: How is it that Paul kept the feasts and the commandments, but told everyone else they shouldn’t????
I am not looking for a long answer with a lot of irrelevant scripture thrown in. How do you and others, who are spiritual, cross that hurdle?
Doesn’t it seem that there is something missing here that is not being taken into account? None who talk as you do, ever approach these questions when asked, because there is really no good answer that justifies your position on all of this!
Lastly, what did Messiah Yahshua accomplish by His death on the tree.? This is a theological question and has a very direct answer. What I am asking for is a brief concise answer, without a lot of extraneous input.
If the answer to the question above is never understood, this discussion will continue on until time runs out.
Shalom
Palisade,
I must admit, i have A LOT of doubt.
I really doubt you know what you are talking about.
I do not doubt for a second that jesus is my savior and i am saved by and live in His grace.
You menrtioned Jesus never sinned. He was under the law. He died for us to have eternal life but not so we could go out and lie, steal, rape and murder without any consequences. Rather we are to emulate Him – do as He did in all respects.
God wrote the Ten Commandments so we would have a guide to live by. The first four are how to interact with God and the last six are how to treat each other. Jesus summed this up when he gave us two “new” commandments – Love your neighbor as you would love yourself and love God with all your heart.
So if you want to love God, follow His instructions – the first four commandments. It is clear throughout the bible to love God (and Jesus) we must keep His commandments. Paul tells us this many times yet you doubt those verses are real.
None of the verses you quote say anything about not having to keep the commandments. In fact they mean something completely different and bible commentators confirm this. SO you give us verses which you personally interpret differently than bible experts and you completely ignore all the many verses that clearly state that we are to obey the commandments, and you defy the lives of Jesus and His apostles who all kept the Sabbath as well as the rest of the commandments and claim you don’t have to lift a finger to the law and all you need to do is to have no DOUBT.
Listen to me now and believe me later, There can be NO DOUBT about one thing – we ARE to keep the commandments including the 4th. It is written plain as fay throughout the New Testament. Myself and others here have given you a half dozen examples and I could search for others, but I doubt you would believe them so I won’t waste my time. And I am certain that you will never find a single verse in the bible that will say that the commandments have been replaced with doubt.
Yes, we should never doubt anything that Jesus told us, but we must also not change the meaning of what He said. You believe without a doubt in everything you have said here. Unfortunately what you believe is untrue. But this is not uncommon. 1.3 billion Catholics believe they are in the one and only true church. They believe when they pray to a statue of Mary that she hears those prayers. They believe their dead loved ones are up in heaven looking down on them. And they believe in a place called Hell, which is nowhere in the bible. In other words, people believe what they are taught and if they believe it long enough, nothing will change their minds.
So no amount of bible verses will dissuade you from your beliefs so all I can suggest is to reread the New Testament carefully, highlighting all the verses that mention the Ten Commandments (not Jewish ceremonial law) and try your best to believe what they are saying. Either the apostles were hypocrites or you are reading something into their words that is not really there. You must take the bible at face value. I grew up Catholic so it took a lot of bible study to cast off all the false teachings that had been ingrained into my mind for all those years. So I know where you are at right now and the question is can you prove (to yourself) that the commandments have been eliminated without “special” interpretation and without having to gloss over many plain and clear verses to the contrary (as we have posted here).
I’m willing to bet if we brought this matter up to a legal court that you would be unable to prove your point “beyond a reasonable doubt” to someone who is unfamiliar with the bible. If you can’t do it this within this type of framework then you must consider that perhaps your “Holy Spirit” is not as holy as you think.
Bless.
Robert,
I never indicated or implied that G_d’s law stinks. What I said was when you rely or stand in YOUR works as a salvation tool then it stinks. Let the HS guide you and you will keep the true law. The Law that Jesus gave us (2). All the other laws are based on these two.
Jesus (YHYH) the word became flesh, the only begotten Son, died for my sins (missed target, wrong path). If the God of the Universe became man suffered, died on the cross for MY sins and said it was for me then that is good enough for me! His words say that and ALL the bible says that and points to Jesus. If His blood was not good enough to continually wash away my sins then NOTHING is good enough. When you deny that (message) you deny Jesus and deny YHVH. This says that His sacrifice wasn’t good enough and YOU can do it better. That is NOT in the scriptures (no where in the Bible does it ever say that).
This is what the Israel did in the wilderness and then the Law was given. The Law was given to Moses over time (BTW) as a starting point or teaching until the Son arrived and gave us a new way in the Holy Spirit. The HS points to Jesus and Jesus points to the Father and the Father points back to Jesus. The HS testifies to Jesus.
If you think YOU can do anything (especially in the flesh) to save yourself or others then you are not reading the scriptures. You just don’t get it. When you receive the HS you don’t want to do the things that separate you from Jesus (YHVH). Plain and simple so the argument to have license to sin is WRONG. That is the point ! The HS leads you onto the correct path. Not by your works or your righteousness but HIS (JC).
Palisade and others, (you do have it) please understand the HS does gives out a “measure” of faith to whomever wants it. That measure does differ with people with an order of magnitude. My understanding is this: depending on how much someone looses “himself” and what YHVH wants them to know they will be given, “Ask and you will receive”. Some people just can’t receive this message because they haven’t given themselves (totally) over. They want to hold on to “religion”, tradition of men and to this world.
This is not a conviction to Jim or others (that believe the Sabbath etc..), you do have truth and light. Maybe that is what the HS wants YOU to do but you can’t have just some laws and pick the ones you want to adhere to. I adhere to Jesus and he washes me continually and the HS guides me along the way.
Peace and Rest in Him
CV
I do not see where Robert said he was saved by works and obeying the law
This topic could be debated forever, but, as Jim said, in a court of law we would have already given sufficient evidence to prove our point.
Palisade said sin is doubt, which is true, but I don’t see it as relevant to the main definition of sin we are using, which is 1 John 3:4 which says sin is the transgression of the law.
The word sin comes from the concept of missing the mark, and the mark we are aiming at here is to keep the law. The purpose for keeping the law is to please God, and I understand you have argued that it pleases God for us to keep the law in our heart, but not literally!
I gather you think that you keep the spirit of the law by trying keep every day as a Sabbath in your heart?
If so, this ignores the fact that the command to count to the seventh day and keep it holy cannot be kept in your heart without doing some basic arithmetic. Try adding 3 and 4 in a maths class, and getting 1 for an answer, and see if it is acceptable to a maths teacher
-or not.
The number 7 cannot be kept in your heart more fully by keeping numbers 1,2,3,4,5, or 6 instead.
It is not possible.
In the same way, you cannot keep a non-sabbath day as a Sabbath because ONLY the Sabbath is a memorial of creation that God has set aside with special blessings for those who keep it.
It is a sign that distinguishes God from all other pagan gods, such as the sun god on sun-day.
The Sabbath was designed by God to give people a spiritual renewal and ‘top-up’. It shows that only God is the Creator.
By getting rid of the Sabbath people try to get rid of God out of their lives and therefore get rid of moral values so that they don’t have to live a moral life.
By not giving the seventh day period of time to God, they are then free to pursue their own selfish interests on any day they like, not believing –(here is where your lack of faith argument should come in)–not believing that if they kept the real Sabbath, then they would be far better off, both physically and spiritually.
God invites us to spend one whole day with him every week where there are no distractions from this world.
How can you fully enter into God’s rest if you try to keep a Sabbath every day while at the same time working and coping with all other stresses and complexities of life?
Please reread the following parable:
Mat 13:43-9
Behold, a sower went forth to sow;
And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:
Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:
And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:
But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.
Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
I’m not at all trying to add to, or change Scripture with the following comment, — please don’t accuse me of it– but I see that this parable could just as easily be a parable about the Sabbath.
The stony and thorny ground could be likened to week days. The scorched ground could be likened to Sunday. The good ground in verse 8, where good fruit is produced, could just as easily represent the Sabbath.
Just to clarify that last bit, I do realise the parable is about the kingdom of heaven, not the sabbath. By repurposing it, I was trying to make a point: the point being that you cannot get value out of ground, or out of a period of time, that God has not put value into in the first place.
Robert,
That was actually a good analogy. There are many verses in the bible that have multiple meanings and / or multiple fulfillments.
I think the main misunderstanding here is that Palisade et al think we are Catholics who while they believed Jesus died for our sins and can forgive us, but if we do not continue to do good works (including keeping pagan practices within the catechism) we will burn in hell rather than going to heaven when we die.
So yes, these believers are sorely misinformed. First, there saved do NOT go to heaven but wait for the resurrection. Second there is no hell – it was made up by the church to help enforce the other beliefs. And third, we are saved by grace alone and do not need to do good deeds to make it to heaven.
But in the Kingdom of God there will be rewards and punishments depending on how we led our lives. If we consistently broke the commandments we will be the least in the kingdom of God :
Mat 5:19
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
This verse should scare the carp out of you. It tells you exactly what you have to look forward to. I am thrilled to read it, for obvious reasons.
So I have no problem in my faith. I am saved by the grace of God because I am saved by Christ. But that fact has nothing to do with whether or not we do good works after we are saved. It is up to us whether we love God enough to keep His commandments. Keeping them does not take away our faith in Christ, in fact, it enhances it as we attempt to live our life as He did.
So it appears your faith has sealed your fate. You have defied the word of God and will suffer the consequences.
Your only hope is that Matthew was a stone-cold liar.
I will pray for you.
jim
I see evidence for hell. what scriptures make you believe otherwise?
I have many books on the topic. Here are some excerpts:
“Perhaps the most familiar and often-quoted verse in the Bible is understood by almost no one. John 3:16 states, “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” Millions routinely quote this verse, while ignoring an essential phrase within it.
Reread it! Those who receive salvation are promised that they “should not perish” but “have eternal life!” If hell is a place of eternal torture, then the people suffering this torment must also have eternal life. But the verse says, “should not perish.” It does not say, “Should not suffer eternal life in torment.” How does the word perish relate to the popular teaching about hell and hell fire? Why did God inspire John to use the word perish if this is not what He meant?
The Wages of Sin
If you are employed, you receive regular paychecks. They represent wages paid to you for work done. What about God? Does He ever pay wages for work? Notice Romans 6:23: “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” This verse exactly mirrors John 3:16! Eternal life is contrasted to DEATH—to PERISHING! The wages of sin is death, not eternal torture in hell.“
The prophet Ezekiel was inspired to write (twice): “The soul that sins, it shall die” (18:4, 20). Death is the absence of life. It is the discontinuance—the cessation—of life. Death is not life in another place. It is not leaving “this life” for “another life”—the “next life.”
Now consider Psalm 115:17: “The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.” Death involves “silence.” This certainly does not square with any of the popular concepts of millions of the dead wailing and screaming in agony. Such a scene could never be described as SILENCE! And, if many of the dead go to heaven, why are they not praising God?
Jesus said, “Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which ALL that are in the graves shall hear His voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation [Greek: judgment]” (John 5:28-29).
The reason there are no conscious thoughts and no remembrance of God after death is that everyone who has ever died is currently awaiting one of the resurrections to which Christ referred. All people will either be resurrected to eternal life or to judgment. That is what it says.
I could go on with a hundred more examples. All over the bible death is described as sleep until resurrection. After resurrection is judgement with either eternal life or the lake of fire which is all-consuming – destruction of body and soul – final death.
In the New Testament hell means grave and in some cases refers to Gehenna, a dump outside Jerusalem that was constantly burning, but not eternal. The context of the verses tell us what is being referred to and it never refers to the modern version of hell which was actually a pagan invention that was accepted by the Catholic church in the middle ages.
And no God of mine – a God of pure love – could even imagine such a cruel place as hell, let alone be the master of it. Yikes, I’d rather take my chances with Hitler or Vlad the impaler.
Simple logic dictates that our God did not create anything like hell.
Thank God for that.
jim
interesting.
so if we sin, we will just die and get nothing….that is not so bad a punishment.
many do not care about eternal life anyhow..they believe they just die and it is over…so there is no reason NOT to sin…..
At the Great White Throne Judgement there will be two choices – death in the Lake of Fire or eternal life. Some who never come to believe in God will prefer to die. Some, like Muslims, may believe that the Lake of Fire is a portal to 72 virgins and their version of heaven.
So for atheists who sin their whole lives, the wages of sin is death. And to deny Christ is to forfeit eternal life, and thus die even if they were a good person.
God doesn’t grade on a curve. It’s pass / fail. Simple.
The curve comes in on those who are saved. Those who have done good works for the Lord will be rewarded. Those who have not, will receive little or nothing. So that’s fair I think.
God’s not as mean as some people think.
so there is no eternal hell to you.
it would not take long to die in the lake of fire…about 10 milliseconds.
that is not so bad..
not much motivation to live a good life for christ….
and who cares about eternal life when one does not believe anyhow
God is a God of love. Jesus told us to love our enemies. So even the enemies of God are given a quick death. God is mercy. He is not a sick bastard worse even than Hitler.
They shouldn’t be hard to understand. If you were president would you torture violent prisoners constantly, day and night for as long as you could keep them alive?
Are you then more merciful than God?
This should be common sense to anyone with a sane mind, wouldn’t you say?
I would like to hear you, or anyone, justify the need for hell.
Any takers?
What would Jesus say?
Hmmmm.
Jesus entered hell when He came to tell us the truth. Look at the “Desolation” and the Abomination of the Centuries gone past and then look at ours today. Its the same. The Black plague was hell for sure. Yet men never repented in the majority.
People Love sin and think its so heavenly. Yet they are living in a hell and do not even understand it. Their Mind are Reprobate Rom. 1 says. They cannot discern good from evil. They are worldly and will never see or know they was blind as bats. Their are only 2 dimensions. One of Hell on earth — the other as Heaven on Earth.
You live in Hell on earth you go to the grave and never rise again. Your judgment is sure for after your life then judgment comes. God knows every lie and sin you did and you did not repent of it. Your judgment is SURE. YOU DIE and your Spirit will be annihilated by the Fire of God who is the only one that can destroy it. Matt. 10:28 ?. Your sins= unbelief become your heaven on earth. It becomes your doctrine to live under. The worlds majority are “sons of perdition” as Cain and all that love this world more than Christ.
Heaven is Now as well. In another dimension In Jesus Christ.= Holy Spirit We live in 2 dimensions right now. The Worldly and the Heavenly. Without the Holy Spirit you will not walk very close to God in this world today.
Jesus cried out why will ye die. Come unto me and I will give you life =Zoe – Eternal life. Why will you Perish. All you have to do is look up in the O.T what Mankind means = mortal man. That’s it . They never went to God their maker for to be an Immortal man. The loved their lives of sin.
You would have to be “Born again” to go to hell for an eternity. Rev. say they will have their””part””=time period – in the lake of fire called the 2nd. death of their soul. That lake of fire dwelled in them yet they used if for evil inventions and killing, and adulteries, etc, etc. And they perished in the gain sayings of Korah etc. Cain came from the EVIL one – that is scripture.
Yet a Believer will cherish that little Piece of “Fire” given him. and Turn it into a Child of Jesus Christ. See its all up to the person. You seek Christ or Satan the world 666.
As far as Millennium that is “”Sabbath of years of Peace, safety and Golden years, Overcoming all obstacles, and sin. Israel O.T and N.T today have 3 parts to fulfill being a Overcoming Christian.
1. The “Blood has to be applied to their hearts door”. The Death angel passed over and they were on their way out of slavery and sin from paganism in Egypt land = world of paganism
2.nd. They had to get “sanctified”. That’s the hard part for most. The first generation did not have the victory or strength to Cross over into Jordan and fight to the death. Yet we know Moses was alive at the Mt. of transfiguration with Elijah and Peter, James and John were witnessing it all.
They were not dead but with Christ. In the Holy Spirit. Their was a Resurrection of all the dead at Jesus Resurrection. God does what He wants and you cannot put him in man made box to play around with.
3rd, Is the “Glory of Overcoming all the Enemy” = entering your promised land that flows with milk and honey- Joshua defeated all pagan ideas and entered into the HOLY SABBATH of that day. With mighty Wonders and Power from God and Special men that were sent to them. When David won the Wars and Solomon set up the “Golden Kingdom of peace”. They literally had a SABBATH REST – what was it. All the enemy were defeated. Jesus done the same thing. I’m in the Sabbath rest NOW. I have to conquer all the enemy to stay in it as well. Not just one day a week BUT EVERY DAY. .
If you never defeat all the little pagan doctrines of devils. We will never understand the whole truth of the Word and or understand you have won the victory over satans kingdom at last. Or else Jesus died in vain.
Jim I am certainly not a Catholic. You accept Catholic doctrine. Yet you are a SDA with Catholic ideas. The Godhead and Baptizing of a Convert it so easy to understand. If people cannot understand Baptism in Jesus Name. Read it over and over till it comes to you. That is the way they did it in the First church age up to the second till Catholicism overtook it by force. We are to do ALL THINGS in the NAME OF JESUS CHRIST. That’s a true doctrine and certainly not a Catholic doctrine. They are Trinity= PLUS
So is eternal hell a Catholic doctrine as most pagans always believe.
Yet their Priest say they can get them out of it for enough money.
Catholic’s are still the Universal church for false doctrines. And it has spread though every denomination in the world. Look at us now. Protestants aren’t even Protestants anymore. They are puppets. To the system of man made lie’s from Satan who Shines like a great god. But he is a fake.
Palisade
I was in a real hurry on this. So iF words mis-spelled etc. forgive me.
Got to go.
First of all, I do not believe in catholic doctrine and I don’t know much about the SDA. I follow the teachings of Herbert W. Armstrong and the Philadelphia Church of God which is his legacy church.
Of course many if not most churches still believe in the Ten Commandments, so there is always going to be overlap on certain beliefs.
But I’m not familiar with any Christian denominations that teach the commandments are null and void so I’m interested in which church you are affiliated with.
I’m not sure what your point was above but it sounds like you tried to redefine heaven and hell to your own making but I’m not buying it.
Heaven is where God and His angels et al live and no man shall enter it unless he came from there in the first place.
“Hell” is the English word for Hades which is the Greek word for sheol which is the Hebrew word for grave or resting place for the dead.
According to the bible the dead sleep and know nothing until the messiah comes to awaken them. They literally “rest in peace.” Ask any Jew what happens when you die (including Jesus) and you will get the same answer – sleep.
As for doing everything in THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST, it is hypocritical to deny the laws of God in the name of God. As I said, you can’t commit adultery and praise Jesus for permission while you are doing it. Would you kill in God’s name as the Muslims do? Yet you say we have permission now. Your entire concept is completely illogical.
Tell me, since you were baptized, have you killed anyone yet? If not you are obeying the law and doing good works. Every day you don’t lie or steal you are doing good works, according to the bible. So why are your good works any better than mine? Jesus died so you could steal, so why do you bother to pay for anything? Maybe because the government would punish you. And rightly so. So are man-made governments more just that the Lord. Is God too timid to punish evil-doers? Will the millennium be like a wild west town where anything goes? Is this the kind of kingdom Jesus plans to rule over?
You need to get real. The Ten Commandments can’t possibly be eliminated or the world would become total chaos. Mad Max would end up ruling the world. Is that what you really want? Is that what you are looking forward to?
Can’t you see that the world can not exist without law? You can’t have total anarchy in paradise. Look at the U.S. Constitution and all the federal and state laws we live under – and we still have problems. God only has ten laws. And we’ve all memorized them. So much easier than living in the IS now. And other than not doing 9 bad things God asks us to do only one thing – rest on Saturday and keep it holy. Heck, that seems less of a hassle than standing in line at the DMV to renew a driver’s license, or stopping at all those red lights and stop signs when I’m in a hurry so I don’t know what the big deal is.
Tell me, when Christ returns, I’m sure He will honor the Sabbath, will you feed Him this same theory to try to get out of it? I’m guessing not. After 5 months of the 7 last plagues I’m sure your mind will be completely changed.
Hopefully sooner though – that’s what I’m trying to accomplish here.
Bless.
Here, here. I believe the word made flesh means the law made flesh. Therefore, Christ came to fulfill the law. Right?
Breaking G-d’s laws requires a price. Christ is the price.
Dear Jim – I’m obeying the Holy Spirit that Saint John said would guide me through the trials of life. Actually John was just writing what Jesus said. He would Come to me. That is a coming as well. Into my soul, mind, and heart. The “Holy Spirit” is the “Word of God” and both say the same thing=they agree together cause they are ONE as well just in different attributes. The Spoken Word and the Written Word is ONE>
That is why the Holy Spirit is NOT an OPTION but a must have. That is your Birth — New Creation = then you Grow into Grace, and Maturity, knowing right from wrong. BY the WORD of God. The Commandments are written upon the tablets of MY HEART. As well as in the Bible.
Under the 4th. Seal is all the same – Death, Hell, and the Grave means all the same thing. So if you die you not a sleeping anymore after Christ has Come. Christ brought the Judgment to us. If you were a Saint in the O.T then you Raised with Christ. If you were not a Saint in the Old Testament then you went back to dust and clay. The soul that sinneth that soul shall DIE. This is plain Scripture.
Herbert Armstrong is just another SDA with a new twist. Yet he was a brilliant man but that is not what Christ is looking for. Intellectuals is about all that is left in the church’s of today. Intellect cannot never understand the Holy Spirit Truths of the mystery. I have read many a book of Armstrong cause my Mother was into it. But soon she left it as well.
In ending- Catholic doctrine is in every de-nomination. Just becoming a de-nomination is Catholicism. A “Little leaven” will leaven the WHOLE LUMP. You cannot add here a little or take away just a little. I am not a de-nominational member. – I still believe in Prophets coming to the church like it says in the Bible. Eph. 4 – to teach the Mysteries of the Word of God. With “Thus saith the Lord”.
If any church you go to has a headquarters that rule the church’s it becomes Babylon. Your headquarters have to be the God given 5 fold ministry. And the Holy Spirit sets them in place not a high ranking man made system of men over men. The Holy Spirit is our guide and our headquarters to understand the great mysteries of Jesus Christ.
PS. The Catholic church had one right doctrine. They would not let a Woman preach or teach in the church. Well Now they don’t even have that one truth as Apostle Paul taught. So they are batting 1,000 for sure in the wrong way. Joining up with the whole world. Pope is putting women in the Higher Positions of Power of Priest hood next to Popes now. How can the World and the Holy Spirit become ONE – answer – It cannot be and never will be.
God bless you Jim. Let Peace fill you heart that is my prayer for you. I prayed yesterday for you as well. I might sound hard but inside my heart their is compassion for people who would dare to look at the “Life Of Jesus Christ and understand” His passions – He was no push-over. His “”doctrine was so foreign”” to that world He came to. They hated him or loved Him. The common people received Him gladly. But the Intellectual leaders buffed him and cursed him and called him a devil. And they joined the Word of Rome to get rid of Him. Sooooooo Sad – its just like that today.
Palisade
beacon
these are long conversations back and forth…maybe I missed something
are you saying if someone obeys God, and his commandments, that they do not have the holy spirit?
and if someone is intelligent, there is a problem with their faith?
I think that Palisade believes that once you have “received” the Holy Spirit he will correctly interpret the bible for you without error. So if the spirit tells you to ignore certain bible verses, it is proper for you to do so. While that would be nice I’m afraid it doesn’t work that way. If it did, everyone would think the way Palisade does.
.
Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
If a person really has the Holy Spirit in him he will heed these words and make sure that EVERY WORD in the bible supports your belief. Clearly Palisade can not say this as we have presented any number of verses that are completely contrary to what he claims.
I think he puts too much faith in the Holy Spirit and not enough in the bible itself. And since he thinks that sin is doubt, he will find it nearly impossible to correct his mistakes.
But maybe we can plant a tiny seed of doubt that will germinate in the future.
to Jim and Marianne – I believe I put more Scriptures up and define them than most people on this forum ever do. Opinions mean nothing without scripture. The Problem is that most people really do not like to study the Bible. But they do like to probe at it that’s all.
When the Word of God was walking around in HIS flesh body – His Name was Jesus Christ. All God and all Human – The intellectual’s religious system of that day from the beginning. Was thinking up ideas how to get RID of him because the common people looked up to Him as one that spoke different than the Priest and Pharisees.
The common people received Jesus Gladly and said Jesus did not speak like the Pharisees etc. But spoke with authority, and Power. But they were so afraid of being kicked out of the system and fear took them over. How many people do you see Preaching and Teaching with Power and Authority in Absolutes today.
Its the same today. An Intellectual or a man with just common sense both have to humble themselves to receive Christ. Paul was saying the Common man is easier to turn His mind over to the Word and believe it. More than a intellectual could. The intellectual has a hard time getting rid of his own thoughts that he thought was “thus saith the Lord” because it sounds so right from his intellectual mind. That is why they miss it most of the time.
We have to become as a child first then grow into it.
As most denominationals today do not have the deeper life in them. Christ taught a New Covenant upon better promises.. BUT Paul did understand the Old testament in its literal sense. But upon receiving the Holy Spirit he said Jesus Taught him and not man. Its the Holy Spirit or nothing that TEACHES us. But we must be able to tear down all the strong holds of intellectualism that we possess. Paul was an Apostle, Prophet, and all things to the Church. We in the modern church today. We don’t even know what a Prophet or Apostle really is. Thus saith the Lord would scare them to death literally.
Paul said His revelation did not come from MAN but from GOD=the Holy Spirit. Paul had many hardships because of his “DEEPER teachings to the New Bride of Christ. All together Paul spent 15 years before really going on to the field and to explain “””The Revelation Jesus Christ”” gave him.
Yes Jim now you know what sin is. Any “doubt of the Word” is sinful— that is not saying you are going to hell brother its just saying what it says. God wants us to know the truth and set us all free from doubts of doctrines that will leaven the whole lump if you stay in them long enough. “Doubt” is un-belief in what Jesus said and the Apostles said. But yes He is slow to anger, and eager to forgive us because of our own “Ignorance” did you know that. Christ died and rose for our own ignorance of Spiritual things.
If Christ would have judged us we would all not made the Mark. Jesus died for our ignorance. I’m glad I could become ignorant enough to understand the Revelation of Christ Mystery.
I CORINTHIANS 1:19- For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
I CORINTHIANS 1:20- Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
I CORINTHIANS 1:21- For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it “pleased God by “the foolishness” of preaching” to save them that believe.
I CORINTHIANS 1:22- For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
a. This is exactly the way today’s church is. seeking signs and wisdom – yet dead in their trespasses.
I CORINTHIANS 1:23- But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; – greeks to smart to learn
I CORINTHIANS 1:24- But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, “”Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.””
I CORINTHIANS 1:25- Because the “”foolishness of God is wiser than men””; and the “”weakness of God is stronger than men””.
I CORINTHIANS 1:26- For ye see “”your calling””, brethren, how that “”not many “”wise men”” after the flesh””, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
a. what can we today add to this verse.
I CORINTHIANS 1:27- But “”God hath chosen the “”foolish things”” of the world “”to confound the wise””; and “”God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;”
I CORINTHIANS 1:28- And “base things of the world”, and things “which are despised”, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:
I CORINTHIANS 1:29- That no flesh should glory in his presence.
I CORINTHIANS 1:30- But of “him are ye in Christ Jesus”, who of God is “made unto us wisdom”, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:”
a. The foolish get their wisdom from God. By reading and studying the Word of God. Many are not called to study I guess IN THIS LAST AGE. “”But we all GOT TO dig our own well””. Not drink from someone else’s well constantly. I sit under many men that prophesied and preached to me false doctrines. Of Un-belief = sin. Just a little sin will canker into more sin.
b. In Jesus day. How many were preaching the Truth when Jesus came on the scene. come on. Just a handful.
c. Jesus Message was foreign to them. As the real message today is foreign to most.
I CORINTHIANS 1:31- That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.
We all have to become stupid to understand Jesus Christ Mysteries. Child like, Humble, till we get satisfied and have “Thus saith the Lord”.
Palisade :
true
someone can be so intelligent that they are prideful
but I think intelligent people can also be wise and choose salvation
Other scripture’s –
1Cor. 3:18 ¶ Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
I COR 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
I COR. 3:20 – And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.
I COR 3:21- Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;
Yes I do not support folly or ignorance. But the Bible says the disciples were ignorant and unlearned men. They marveled at Christ as well saying this man having never learned speaks words of wisdom.
We all have to empty ourselves out of our comfort zone when it comes to Gods understanding. Even if we are a genius – We still have to be like Paul and empty ourselves out completely to our Tutor the Holy Spirit and Holy men that are sent to us. Without the tutor we will never be “placed” into the Fathers Business. Each tribe of Israel had their own unique gifts and callings just as Paul said.
Can you agree with me that today’s world is getting to smart for their own good. And atheism is on the rise.
Palisade
yes, for the most part, people worship their intellect more than their God
Palisade,
You have given many scriptures here, that much is true. But the problem is that none of them prove what you are trying to prove.
Nowhere does the bible state that the Ten Commandments are void, nor that the Sabbath has been changed in any way. If this were so the apostles would have said so in plain language and they would not have kept the Sabbath their whole lives. And there would be no verses such as I have presented whose interpretation is plain and clear – you simply ignore them and keep posting the same old verses which you must personally interpret for us in order for us to understand them your way.
And every time I go to check on your interpretation with bible scholars I discover that no one agrees with what you are trying to say. So the truth is you have not proven anything here except that you need to misinterpret bible verses in order to make your point.
When I study the bible this raises all sorts of red flags to me. If I ignore the bible experts and put blind faith in your interpretation I must then break God’s law in order to be a good Christian. That sounds crazy to me and it forces me to ignore so many clear verses regarding keeping the commandments that I can never justify such a move.
I do have the Holy Spirit and it tells me to keep the commandments and not to believe someone who at best will be called “least” in the kingdom of God. By teaching the commandments instead I will be called “great” in the kingdom and to me great trumps least every time.
I can’t figure out why you would rather be the least.
I agree. Not only that, the Bible does not even say that those called least in the kingdom will BE in the kingdom… Nor will they be in a Catholic hell… they may instead be ashes under the soles of our feet according to Malachi 4:3
And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.
Not a Catholic hell, but still scary stuff, if you believe what the Bible actually says, instead of what most people think it says.
Good description… the Lake of Fire will no doubt kick up quite a bit of ash.
I do not agree with that interpretation Mr. Binnion. The least are the least. I doubt if G-d will allow a bunch of ash on the ground in heaven, but I can’t be 100% sure as I have not gotten there yet.
The closest I have come to heaven is sitting next to a beautiful women and fishing with an ice down cooler in the creek bottom doing cannon balls on occasion due to the heat of North Texas. Some say hell is hotter than Texas. That’s not good.
If you two brothers of the same kind would lift up Jesus Christ more than your saturday worship. He would open your eyes. And it would make me feel better about you both.
You both will say the church has to gather on Saturday or we got the “Mark of the Beast”. You have no idea of what you are talking about.
You would have to take all of Paul’s writing and most of Jesus Christ writing out of the N.T along with all other epistles written by God as the Holy Ghost was telling them what to write.
Another point if you would just mention the other 9 laws that go with the 4th one. I guess according to your doctrines Adultery, Hate, Murder, having other gods before you, lusting , being a liar and loving your fellow man etc. etc. I could have at least thought you might have known of the Holy Spirit. You both have a one dimensional message. The Sabbath. That is what this whole thing means to you. And that is your main doctrine. And yet I agree with you on eternal death. The only form of Eternal life is in Jesus Christ period. Perish, destroyed, and the soul dies. Eze. 18:4 the soul that sins that soul shall die.
Then Jesus backs that up in Matt. 10:28 – And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to “destroy both soul and body in hell”.
Our experience on earth in the “flesh body” determines your Judgment. If you lived in Hell- you loved the world and were possessed by a demonic spirit — but if Heaven is what you loved. You loved Jesus and Possessed the Holy Spirit.
If your mind thinks carnal then you are still a sinner. David had a real bad sin against him. I would say one of the most. Adultery, and having a man killed so he could have his wife. That is pretty bad. Did he keep the Sabbath. Did the Sabbath forgive him. Who told him after a year of hiding his secret. A Prophet Yea a Prophet full of the Holy Spirit told him his sin. And David knew he was the man that sinned. But he ALMOST went into a reprobate of mind if it weren’t for the Prophet Nathan I think that came to him. The Prophet told him – You are the man David. – and David could not justify it any longer.
Who forgave David his sins. He was backslid and no doubt keeping the Sabbath day. Or did he just quit worshipping on the Sabbath day. “”You see it is neither one””. God forgave David cause Davids Heart was right and he REPENTED to GOD after Nathan judged him right. And David had to repent to God for his sin. And The Holy Spirit forgive him. He possessed the Holy Spirit as well. David said take not thy Holy Spirit from me.
I feel sorry for both of you at this point. Empty yourself out of your error and God will bless you with more truth. But right now how can you learn more truth when you believing a lie that the natural sabbath has not turned into a Spiritual Sabbath rest for ALL who believe in Christ Message in the New covenant.
You both are “raptured up ” in heresy. You both would have denied Christ if you were living in Christ day. You would have been on the Pharisee’s side. God forbid. Blaming Jesus and telling Him he was wrong for coming to FULFILL all things. You would have been with them that condemned him for picking corn on Sabbath. Hello. When the law was in the beginning put forth. A man just picked up a stick and he had to be killed. You got to put yourself in today’s message. If a Law is a Law then you must always have to do the LAW – that is what you both are. Yet do not go by the law yourself.
That was the 4th. commandment. What about adultery now. That was death as well. What did Jesus do in the case of the Adulterous woman. Praise God HE forgave her and tole the other that are without sin to cast the first stone. You just cannot take that out of the Bible what Jesus told them. You are living in a illusion. Jesus 2nd. commandment was to Love your brothers as your self. If you loved your Brother and or Sister would you kill them for that. You are not following the law then. Sooo simple.
If you all would let your Heart receive the Word of God. The Lord will not forsake you. He loves you both and He loves me as well. We can have differences. But how far does God go with you on out right unbelief.
Every denomination just has a “creed they serve”. And that’s what both of you serve. Absolutely every denomi-nation has their by-law and a headquarters of man over man. Same with your false error.
So I’m done with the Sabbath you can only say so much. If you don’t get it then I done my best and you all can say you done your best to teach me. I debate but I do not hate = nobody. Its a good thing to debate. We can all learn from it if we choose to. Some would fight to the death to be right on a false doctrine. Their pride will not let them. This is not my pride talking. This is the Word of God and I stand by it. You have not changed my thoughts at all. And your lack of scripture sure is not a good evidence of the truth.
Palisade –
I have said from the beginning that we are to keep ALL the commandments, not just the 4th. You say that keeping the laws is heresy, which means we are NOT supposed to NOT kill etc. Which means to keep the law we must KILL, etc. Do you see how that makes NO sense? Murder is OK now? So is adultery and stealing etc? Is that what you truly believe? To love God is to KILL? Do you see how your premise makes no sense?
As for the Sabbath commandment being warped into doing basically nothing, I see no evidence for this. The experts reject your explanation and it makes no sense to me either.
You claim to have more love for Jesus than I do simply because I choose to keep ALL the commandments just as they were written, in stone.
Here is what Christ said;
Jhn 14:15
“If you love Me, keep My commandments.
Jhn 15:10
“If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
I am simply following what Jesus taught. Yet you claim I am a heretic if I do so. If I didn’t know better I would think you are antichrist. I think you and others like you are part of the great “falling away” predicted by Jesus before His return. Even the Mystery Babylon Catholic church keeps eight commandments, but to keep none is truly blasphemous.
I am not afraid to keep the commandments. And I do not consider them work. It is said that when Christ returns He will put the law into our hearts so we will gladly keep them without even thinking about it. It is the only way to create the paradise that God promised for the millennium. Otherwise there would be chaos and mayhem.
And what day will we keep as the Sabbath, just as Jesus did?
Looks like there are two choices:
1: Saturday.
2: Jesus will not keep any particular day holy to honor His father.
Somehow I’m not putting my faith in the latter.
Time will tell us who is right.
Beacon737, we do not ignore the other 9 commandments – what gave you that idea?
Lack of scripture? …Eh? What lack of scripture???
The mind boggles.
But thanks for your entertaining posts – your lack of rationale is really amusing, although breaking any of God’s law needs to be seen as a very serious thing.
You are right about one thing – which is that we can only say so much about this without going round in circles. If need be, you may now have the last say (no matter how crazy it may be) – sorry I can’t change your thoughts.
I was actually hoping others beside yourself might read these posts and reexamine their false assumptions as a result. Yes, I do understand that people set on their ways won’t listen to reason. I could not find much reason in most of everything you said, so there is not much point in talking further.
I wish you a nice life – it probably is a waste of time for us to chat further.
Tom-Palisade-Beacon,
Hope all is well with you today. I asked you a couple of questions about 5 days ago. Let me pose those same questions again. Maybe you will respond this time:
“Answer one question in all of this: How is it that Paul kept the feasts and the commandments, but told everyone else they shouldn’t????”
“Lastly, what did Messiah Yahshua accomplish by His death on the tree.?”
Basically, what did He do once and for all time, and from that point on would never be necessary again, for our salvation? What did that action by Messiah abolish-do away with? Specifically, what of the “old” was done away with and replaced by that which was “new”? Be specific.
For your sake and others who are like minded, you need to come to some understanding of what is going on in all of this. You are doing yourself and others who are reading all of this and being persuaded by your arguments, a disservice.
Shalom
I do have a final question for Palisade;
I am curious what you think the mark of the beast will be?
It is clearly the breaking of some commandment according to the Book of Revelation, so what does someone who does not believe in the law think will be the act that is so heinous to God that He puts the seven last plagues on them?
Dear Jim and Al.
Jim Wrote below;
1: Saturday.
2: Jesus will not keep any particular day holy to honor His father.
Somehow I’m not putting my faith in the latter.
Time will tell us who is right.
My answer:
Jesus and God are one unit. And two in Attributes only.
If you could understand the the Sabbath was the Shadow-rest and Jesus Christ was the “Person of that shadow”. Why would you want to serve the “shadow” instead of the Person itself. Its a NO BRAIN- ER. Jesus fulfilled it all. Now you can go to the real sabbath rest any day or anytime and get HOLY REST. If you sinnned and was sooo sorry you did. You would not have to wait till Saturday to get forgiven. Think about it dear brother.
Jim you are exactly what I said you was dear bother. You are rejecting Jesus Christ and “replacing him with a sabbath day – replacement”. That is scary to say the least. It was Christ only that “bought you” Eternal salvation. Not just keeping of one Holy day. Everyday is Holy to Jesus Christ. Everyday I must walk as perfect as I can. Yet Christ told us to live ONE day at a time. So you can take care of the evil of that present day. And You have Christ right with you and in you to help you Overcome everyday.
Jesus Christ is the only form of Eternal life. Not a Sabbath day or certain day. I tried to tell you we all sin at times. Some sins are unto the death. That is a sin of rejecting Jesus Christ period. Some sins are not of death. WHY Because the comer still loves Jesus Christ with all his Heart, Spirit, and Soul. – example David, Abraham etc. etc. So God knows who you Love the most. He is the “Author and Finisher” of “your faith”. That is a scripture. He is the “Alpha and Omega” of your little life span. Do you know as well. Jesus knows every single sin you will commit in your life time or HE AIN’T GOD. He died for you knowing that and His Great Mercy had to do that so people could walk in the way of Holiness. Author and finisher of your faith and life. He said HE would never leave you comfortless. That comfort is peace, and forgiveness.
AS FOR THE MARK OF THE BEAST- READ BELOW
As far as the “Mark of the Beast”. Its your “Character” Its shows who you are of. Their our only 2 seeds Wheat and Tares.
It’s all about your Char-acter – how do you act in mind, soul, and body. Forget the exterior and get the INNER MAN -Celestial in line with the Word of God FIRST.= 1 Cor. 15 How do you get forgiven IF you sin. Its sure not a sabbath you go to . Dear Brother I went to the Lord and prayed for you. I think you are sincere. But you are sincerely wrong. I was wrong for many years myself in a Pentecostal and Charismatics church’s for 10 years.
The Mark of the Beast is plain and I have much I could send you on the subject if you are willing to read it. If your Character is not HOLY then you have to receive the Holy Spirit because that is the Only way you can be Holy. You have to have the Holy Spirit. It changes your whole life. The old Nature = Character has to be “annihilated” by letting the “Holy Spirit conquer” it by your faith and Love and Desire for Gods Character. Not just a sabbath works mentality.
Palisade
Your grasp of bible prophecy seems weak. It seems that you are saying if we have the Holy Spirit we are protected from the mark of the beast. But the Book of Revelation says we are protected if we “keep the commandments of God and have the testament of Jesus Christ.” (Rev12)
So tell us, WHO is the beast and what will his mark be? I will read whatever link you send me to. And don’t worry, I have the REAL Holy Spirit, so I will be able to tell the truth from a lie.
Also please answer this;
Ezekiel predicts a third millenial temple to be buit after Jesus returns. So Jesus will preach there just as He did 2000 years ago. As high priest, what day do you think He will preach on? Or will there not be a church of God? No laws, no guidelines to live by and no rules on how to treat God (the first 4 commandments).
If God the father is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow, what changes will He make to accommodate your way of thinking?
Will Jesus still keep the 7th day holy in honor of His Father? Or will he banish the church and sit back and do nothing, leaving us to read the bible on our own and come to our own conclusions?
According to the bible, Jesus will marry the true church, so what do you think that church will be? A smattering of people who think as you do? Or a real church that will meet on the lord’s day
Just wondering if you have thought ahead.
From what I gather, things will return to much the way it was when Jesus left. He will rebuild the temple according to the plans laid out in Ezekiel, then He will do just as He did when He was last here, on the same day – the true Sabbath. He will rule the earth from the throne of David and His constitution will be the Ten Commandments. He will keep the 7th day holy as he always did. Not the first day as you tried to claim is the new lord’s day.
Just because the apostles may have met on the first day, or any other day, does not make that day the new Sabbath. Same with the resurrection day. And calling the first day the 8th day is just a lame attempt Sunday worshippers use to they to claim that since 8 menas something, then you can apply that something to Sunday. There are NOT 8 days in the week. Sunday is ONLY the 1st day, not the 8th, the 15th or any other mathematical manipulation you care to apply. This tactic is the sure sign of a desperate attempt to prove a false point. But it fits perfectly with all the rest of the so-called “proof” you have presented so far. It is why you have failed to convince us to abandon the law.
But now, tell us about the beast and the millenium church.
Dear Bro. Al – If you have read most of the debate above. And do not understand any of it or maybe just parts of it. It is good to debate. That is what the Church today needs to do. Being a Christian is not a wonder land of ease. It can be a struggle as well. Just ask the Prophets and Disciples and look at their lives. My goodness the whole church world almost hated Jesus Christ and tortured Him for what – He came to HIS OWN and HIS OWN rejected everything HE said. Except for the Chosen few = Disciples. And they all left HIM when HE went to die except for John. But If Christ has Chosen you He will never Leave you nor forsake you. You are His own.
We need Teachers that will tell the truth and have “Thus saith the Lord”. And yes their is just a few of them in the Bible as it was then so is it today.
Heb. 13:8 Jesus Christ the SAME yesterday, today, and forever.
I would like to hear what your thinking of. I love talking to people with sincere hearts whether we agree or not. Its still our duty to seek truth. Cause that is the only thing that will set us free from false prophets which are many in today’s church. Money rules them, Popularity rules them, they more interested in their Careers and our taught by intellectual theologians that just play their music to them and the “people love to have it so.” The people today do not want to hear the WHOLE GOSPEL.
I hope and pray that you are not one of them. The average Christian will not debate because they are afraid of being wrong. They do not study themselves to even know what it’s all about. If the Word is foreign to you then try to find someone that can tell you at least the Basics of the Word of God. That is what forums are for.
Hope to hear from you again. Palisade.
Love you in Christ.
Tom,
You need to understand specifically what Messiah Yahshua came to do as the Lamb of Yah. It is detailed in great depth in the book of Hebrews-one of Rav Shaul’s (Paul’s) letters. To be brief, Yahshua came to offer Himself as a sacrifice for our sins and bring peace between man and Yah through His shed blood. Up to that time, the Priests of the Arronic Priesthood would sacrifice animals for a sin and peace offering. When Messiah Yahshua came, He offered Himself as the Lamb of Yah, on Passover, for our sin sacrifice and peace offering, once and for all. In doing this, He nullified and abolished the animal sacrifices, the Levitical Priesthood, and the need for a Temple made with hands. Why do you think the Temple was destroyed in 70 Ad, just a short time (relatively speaking) after Messiah’s death and resurrection?
Yahshua became our sin sacrifice abolishing animal sacrifice
Yahshua became our High Priest abolishing the Arronic Priesthood
Yahshua made man His temple thereby abolishing the need for a temple of brick and stone. By doing so, He wrote His Torah-Law on our hearts and dwells in us as Ruach HaKodesh (the Holy Spirit), so that we are empowered to walk in His ways, which is the way of Torah-His Law!
These are the things that changed and were abolished, not the Commandments and Feasts of Yah. These were the things that were old and replaced by that which was new and better.
If you approach the Hebraic scriptures with a Western-Gentile-Greek mentality, you will never understand these things. What the Christian Church has managed to do is construct a two storied house, with no foundation and no first floor. The pieces needed to put all of this together were given from the beginning. That is why scripture says, that Yah tells us the end from the beginning-Isaiah 46:10. Without the beginning, the end will never be understood!
Be careful how much of Yah’s Word (Genesis-Revelation) you choose to toss aside as yesterdays irrelevant news! His Word is not corrupted nor suffers from degradation, by the passing of time. Regardless of the use of OLD & New, His Word (All of it) is immutable!
Shalom
Al,
Beacon says that he loves to debate, yet he told me he is finished with debating the Sabbath issue as he could only say so much.
His tactic is to ignore all things which prove him wrong and just continue rolling on with his own ideas.
In the end people who have not followed the whole thing will look at the end of the discussion and think he’s right! But he has not answered your questions which prove him wrong, and he never will.
Also, like Satan, he mixes truths in with half truths and outright falsehoods, and people who are not alert to it don’t know the difference. It’s very hard to debate someone who acts like this, especially when he rambles on with other comments that are not even part of the main issue.
That’s why I will give him a miss from now on.
Robert no sense in going on with an un-believer. I made the case and you could not justify any of yours. Your few little scriptures and ideas don’t dove tail at all.
When you ignore so many scriptures then what is left. You need a Revelation from the Spirit of God. But you will not receive it with the attitude you have right now.
You are like many on forums. You ignore all the evidence because you believe only in your little creed. Your Intellectual creed from your false prophets that educated you instead of getting your filled with the Holy Spirit and having a real Revelation of your own. You are hooked on the Sabbath Natural and yet blind to the Spiritual aspect of the real Sabbath that I’ve have already told you.
The blind lead the blind. Compare all the scriptures I sent you. If that don’t convince you then nothing will move you into a Revelation of the Truth.
You need to read the above till you see it.
When Christ was born- His name was not Sabbath. It was Jesus-Immanuel – God is with us – God is the Holy Spirit. I feel really bad for you that you know nothing of the Spirit of God.
I’ll put my Faith and Love into Jesus Christ-Holy Ghost – Because without HIM you can do nothing let alone have a real Revelation.
You also never answered any of my Scriptures cause you could not explain it in an educated way. You can do every commandment their is of Moses. And yet not even be a Christian. Ask Jesus and He will tell you the same thing. Cause once you sinned it was impossible for the “blood of animals” to resurrect you back into fellowship with God. That means it was temporal to begin with. My High Priest is Eternal. Moses law just told them what sin way.
Instead of reading your creed everyday. Just start over and read the Red letters with an open mind and you might come out with a true meaning of what Christ was all about. If Moses law was all that was needed. Why did God have to pre-pare Himself a Body of flesh and step into it from the Virgin Mary. It was an immaculate conception. Cause God was the only one that could make man His Own Son. By a sinless blood of a man – Called Jesus the Anointed one. Also called the Kinsmen Redeemer of Rev. 5 – did you read that chapter. Take about 2 minutes to read it. Then read Ruth and you will see why it took a Kinsmen Redeemer to set you really free from Sin. But I doubt you will do it.
Jesus said NO ONE Kept the Law. I will believe what Jesus said not your creed of false Prophets. Even Moses sinned along with all mankind. Moses actually killed a man – he was a murderer. What was the Blood put on the door for. The shadow of what the Sinless one’s blood=kinsmen redeemer would do when HE CAME . Animal blood cannot take away our sins. It was the Blood of God the Bible says. Moses was only for a season. Then Jesus said “It IS DONE”.
Who do you pray to Robert. Or do you ever sin. Your conscience is your guide some say. But its really Your Heart and Soul that is where you Character comes from. Your Character is Everything to God. And ALL of MANKIND is fallen without Christ = Holy Spirit living in you. How else you gonna become Holy in Character.
The Number 8 in the Bible means = a New Beginning,
Last thing The Bible says the Church gathered on the Eighth day which was Sunday.
Mark 16:9 ¶ Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils.
Jh. 20:19 ¶ Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. —
a – A New Beginning has come. Old things are passed away
Acts 20:7 ¶ And upon the “”first day of the week””, when the “”disciples came together to break bread””, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
a. Sounds like they were having church to me.
Jesus said when Peter alone said “”He was the Son of God””. Jesus replied. Upon this rock I shall build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Jesus was not talking about a pope. The Rock was the Revelation of the WORD. That is the only way you can discern the Word. Then a little while after that. Jesus said to Peter I must go to Jerusalem and die. And Peter rebuked Jesus. Jesus then called Him a satan. Do you see the different – Jesus Corrected Him from the error. What are you when you cannot see the truth. You can become a satan against the truth thinking you are absolute right. Peter new the Revelation on receiving the Holy Spirit. It was the Absolute to receiving the Holy Spirit. He baptized in Jesus name. When are you going to do that my friend. It was a command yes a Revelation of a “”Singular Person”” in 3 different attributes. Its the same with the Sabbath being Natural first then becoming Spiritual in the New beginning.
Palisade – I have proved my case. You cannot explain them cause it would give evidence that you are wrong indeed. Have a great life.
For the sake of anyone reading this thread, who might be tempted to believe beacon’s deceptions /errors, I believe all of beacons points in his last post are answered or explained in the following link:
http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Sabbath
So, as the link shows, there are good answers to all of his points. But he is too far into deception for me to converse with at this stage.
Robert, I agree with what you and Jim are saying concerning the present topic! This never has been an either or decision. We have to have both law and grace simultaneously. What the Christian community does not realize is that, Yahshua is not just our salvation (our sin sacrifice), but also the One who gave the Torah to His people on Mt Sinai (James 4:7). As long as we are a dichotomy of flesh and spirit, both are necessary. Our completeness in Messiah is contingent on both, not just one or the other. We now have the Christian Church on one hand and Orthodox Jews on the other. Both having a relationship with Messiah, but lacking in completeness due to a lack of revelation and understanding! Both sides talk about revelation and understanding, but are actually in a form of partial denial. The time is quickly coming, in a time of extreme distress, when He will open the eyes of those who are truly His, to see and understand the fullness of who He truly is and who and what we are meant to be in Him! All of us still have much to learn!
Shalom
there is really a connection between old and new testament….
they are really all one covenant….
old is repeated many times in the new
https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/11224070_1447118762255623_7677177190392720550_n.jpg?oh=3e37ef072375a894b65c6799a90538a0&oe=5608D08E
Yes, I agree. Revelation = 605 old testament references in 404 verses … that’s amazing.
Robert & Marianne,
Great thoughts and comments! I wholeheartedly agree!!!
To all here who love God:
I Googled Ten Commandments and New Testament and found a few appropriate verses:
What Christ taught concerning the 10 Commandments in the New Testament
Christ consistently upheld the 10 Commandments as given in the Old Testament. In His Sermon on the Mount, He very pointedly stated: “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill” (Matthew 5:17).
Although some mistakenly think that “fulfill” in this passage means to complete and therefore abolish, what Jesus said afterwards shows this could not be the case. Continuing, Jesus said: “For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven” (verses 18-19).
Realizing that Jesus consistently upheld all of the commandments, including observing the seventh-day Sabbath (Matthew 19:17-19; Luke 4:16), some wrongly suggest that it was the apostle Paul, with Jesus’ personal approval, who introduced grace and the abolishment of the law.
The truth is that Jesus did not change His mind about the importance of keeping all of the 10 Commandments. As Hebrews 13:8 states: “Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever.Toward the end of the first century—some 60 years after His death and resurrection—Jesus revealed end-time instructions through John in the book of Revelation. In this book He identifies faithful members of His Church as those “who keep the commandments of God” (Revelation 12:17). Some of the final words of the Bible and this revelation of Jesus Christ likewise state: “Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city” (Revelation 22:14).
MATTHEW 12:1 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. And his disciples were hungry, and began to pluck heads of grain and to eat. 2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said to him, “Look, Your disciples are doing what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath!” 3 Then he said to them, “Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him: 4 how he entered the house of God and ate the showbread which was not lawful for him to eat, nor for those who were with him, but only for the priests? 5 Or have you not read in the law that on the Sabbath the priests in the Temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless? 6 But I say to you that in this place is One greater than the Temple. 7 But if you had known what this means, ‘I desire mercy and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless. 8 For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.” 8 Now when he had departed from there, he went into their synagogue. 10 And behold, there was a man who had a withered hand. And they asked him, saying, “Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?” — that they might accuse him. 11 Then he said to them, “What man is there among you who has one sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will not lay hold of it and lift it out? 12 Of how much more value then is a man than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.” 13 Then he said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” And he stretched it out, and it was restored as whole as the other. (NKJV)
AFTER JESUS’ DEATH, HIS DISCIPLES OBSERVED THE SABBATH:
“And the women also, which came with him from Galilee, followed after, and beheld the sepulchre, and how his body was laid. And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.” (Lk 23:55,56) [ This occured after Jesus’ death obviously, which is when the false teachers claim the law was done away. They say the law was “nailed to the cross”, but His disciples obviously didn’t believe that, as we see here, they “rested the Sabbath day according to the commandment”]
” . . . when they (the apostles) departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day.” (Acts13:14)
“And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.” (Acts13:42) [Notice: the Gentiles (non-jews) wanted to hear the word of God on the next Sabbath. Paul DID NOT tell them, “Come back tomorrow, the first day of the week, because that’s the day us Christians keep.” He had them return the following SABBATH]
“And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.” (Acts13:44)
“For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.” (Acts15:21)
“And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made.” (Acts16:13)
“And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures.” (Acts17:2)
“And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks.” (Acts18:4)
“For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.” (Heb 4:4) [See Eph 5:1 where it states that we are to be imitators of God.]
“There remaineth therefore a rest [See margin: Greek word is “Sabbatismos” which means “Sabbath-keeping”] to the people of God.” (Heb 4:9)
“For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.” (Isaiah 66:22,23) [I realize this is an OT scripture, BUT as you can clearly see here, this is dealing with the NEW heavens and earth (after Christ’s return) and it states that ALL shall keep the Sabbath then. It seems quite preposterous, that God would give the seventh day Sabbath to mankind at creation (Gen 2:1-3), re-introduce it to Israel BEFORE Sinai – after they lost sight of it in captivity (Ex 16:4,23,27-29), codify it at Sinai (Ex:20) having all His people observe it, including Christ, then change it to Sunday, just to change it back to Friday sunset – Saturday sunset. THE SABBATH HAS NEVER CHANGED AND IS STILL TO BE OBSERVED!]
Also check out: Does the New Testament Teach ALL Ten Commandments?
This last site carefully debunks all the verses presentd above by Palisade.
SO my brother, here is all the proof you need. Just try to prove these words are false. Of course you won’t even try because it is not possible. And if these are not enough there are yet more verses I didn’t include.
Sorry dude but you are out-manned, out-gunned and out-versed.
Out-smarted too, like in the following clip – it’s only a minute and a half long, so you have time to watch it:
Yeah, no matter how you try to invalidate the Sabbath, the bible always proves you are wrong. I’ve seen a dozen such arguments and they are all easily proven false, by the bible and without having to redefine words or simply making stuff up.
To all those who want to stand in their own works such as “keeping the Sabbath” and all the other laws, bless you. However, if you want the truth this teaching my help. This explains the “New Covenant” that YHVH established. This new covenant fulfills all the previous covenants and how ONLY by Jesus this salvation, sanctifying, cleansing, righteousness, and forgiveness of our sins through the faith in Jesus Christ is complete.
http://www.spiritandtruth.org/teaching/biblical_covenantalism/35_the_institution_of_the_new_covenant/index.htm?x=x
[audio src="http://www.spiritandtruth.org/teaching/biblical_covenantalism/35_the_institution_of_the_new_covenant/20150513_institution_of_new_covenant_1.mp3" /]
[audio src="http://www.spiritandtruth.org/teaching/biblical_covenantalism/35_the_institution_of_the_new_covenant/20150513_institution_of_new_covenant_2.mp3" /]
If you can’t get this then no doubt you are not suppose to get or that veil of deception is upon you. Please understand this will set you free and peace beyond your knowledge will come upon you. Why do you want to mix “old wine skins with the new wine skins”?
With love and peace
To all:
Jesus arose on Sunday – the 8th. Day of NEW BEGINNING
If God wanted to still give credence to the seventh day sabbath, then Jesus would have been raised on Saturday. God was changing everything because of the cross and the seventh day sabbath was included in that change. In the Lord’s Supper we are told to do this as a remembrance. If we are remembering correctly that He rose on Sunday, then why would we continue to worship on Saturday which would make it an incorrect remembrance. As the post above by CV why will ye not enjoy the New Wine. But you SDA want to try and mix in it old wine skins.
Rev. 3:9- Behold, I will make them of the “””synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews,””” and are not, but do lie; “”””behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
The New day dawned – New Beginnings the 8th. day.
“””The New Testament does not record the Christians ever meeting on the seventh day sabbath.””” It records “””the Jews still meeting in the synagogues on their Sabbath””” but not Christians. (Acts 17:1-2 KJV)””””” Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where was a synagogue of the Jews: {2} And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures.
A Living Hope
(1 Pet 1:3 KJV) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy —–hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,—– The resurrection of Christ on Sunday gave us a living hope whereby we can be born again unto salvation. “””The New 8th. Day Creation. “””
Rev. 3:14 14 ¶ And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, —–the beginning of the creation of God;—-
Pentecost was on Sunday
(Acts 2:1 KJV) And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. Pentecost was fifty days after the Resurrection of Christ. Here we have a significant Christian event called the birth of the church occurring on Sunday by the giving of the Holy Spirit of Promise. This was also accompanied by the first sermon preached by Peter and three thousand became saved.
Jesus was declared to be the Son of God on Sunday
(Rom 1:4 KJV) And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead: When the Lord Jesus Christ was resurrected on Sunday morning, He was declared to be the Son of God. His resurrection from the dead proved all His claims. He showed that not even death could hold him since death had no right to hold him since His sacrifice for sin was completed and accepted by the Father. This verse details His deity. He was raised according to the Spirit of holiness since death only has power over the unholy, it has no power over the Holy which is the saved, but here we have the Spirit of Holiness as deity.—– Please note one thing, he did not become the Son of God upon His resurrection, He was always the eternal Son of God —–but His resurrection was a declaration of His deity.
Jesus Fellowshiped with His disciples on Sunday
(Luke 24:13-15 KJV) And, behold, two of them went that same day to a village called Emmaus, which was from Jerusalem about threescore furlongs. {14} And they talked together of all these things which had happened. {15} And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them.
On Sunday when Jesus was resurrected, He had fellowship with two of His disciples. (Mat 18:20 KJV) For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. While this was not a worship service, it shows the principle that Jesus is in the midst of His disciples as they fellowshipped with each other, with only two as He Himself had spoken. (Luke 24:36 KJV) And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you. Not only did He fellowship with two on the road to Emmaus but with the rest of the assembled disciples.
The Triumphal Entry to Jerusalem
(Mat 21:7-9 KJV) And brought the ass, and the colt, and put on them their clothes, and they set him thereon. {8} And a very great multitude spread their garments in the way; others cut down branches from the trees, and strowed them in the way. {9} And the multitudes that went before, and that followed, cried, saying, Hosanna to the son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest. Jesus had come into Jerusalem in fulfillment if Zechariah 9:9 on a Sunday which we know as Palm Sunday. (Zec 9:9 KJV) Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.
Congregational Splits
Another bad fruit of Saturday worship is that it split’s the congregation in two and those who come on Saturday will never get to know those who come on Sunday. People in the same church will be strangers. If a congregation gets big and another service is needed, then shift the schedule around on Sunday. I know churches that have an early service and then Sunday School afterward while the second service is going on.
False religions worship on Saturday
Judaism, Roman Catholicism, Seventh day Adventists are just three false religions which have chosen to have their worship on Saturday. They are still clinging to the Old Testament Sabbath and basically are in rebellion against God since the sabbath was changed at the cross.
Sunday Fun-day
Probably the worst fruit of all is the fact that Christians will come to church on Saturday night and then will stay clear of the church on Sunday. They believe that that they have done their “holy hour of obligation” and when Sunday rolls around they can sleep late or they can get up early and go do whatever they want. It is a shame that many churches have set up this way of escape from spiritual responsibilities. Christians already have too many ways which divert them from being solid in their testimony and they do not need their church to help them along. Why would any church want to pattern their service schedule in the way the false religions do? This Saturday service is just as unbiblical as any other false teachings. The biblical pattern is that the believers meet on the first day of the week and not the seventh day. Those churches who do this are in violation of the Scriptures and God cannot bless any church who violates the Scriptures. If they do not recant this evil method, then Christ will remove their candlestick. (Rev 2:5 KJV) Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. The church is not supposed to follow the world or false religions, let the false religions and the world follow us. A great testimony to neighbors is to see Christians going to church on Sunday morning rather than to the beach. It is a question of testimony.
Summary
The reality is that the cross of Christ changed everything including negating the Mosaic law.—- Every significant spiritual event that happened in the early church happened on a Sunday.—– Then the Bible sets up the meeting day for the believers and that is only on Sunday.—- Nowhere in Scripture do we ever read that the believers continued to observe the seventh day Sabbath.—– In fact, it was not included in the writings of the New Testament. God gave us the ——New 8th day sabbaths in conjunction with the resurrection of Christ. It is Sunday that we are to worship on and not Saturday. —-A Saturday worship shows denial of the first coming of Christ because that church is showing it still observes the seventh day Sabbath in obedience to the Mosaic law. Sunday is the day of worship for the true believer, anything beyond that is sin.
Palisade
where do you see the christian sabbath and the jewish sabbath were on different days in the NT?
book chapter verse?
I only see one sabbath
Proof Jesus was not resurrected on sunday:
http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Jesus-Resurrection
and here’s one that shows Pentecost may not be on sunday either:
http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Sivan6
(My apologies to all those who say “don’t confuse me by giving me the truth.”)
I have a feeling that Jesus was in the tomb for the biblical number 3-1/2 days. The number 3-1/2 comes up frequently in the bible as it is half of the number7, god/perfection.
In the Old Testament fractions were not known so the number 3-1/2 was not simple to define.
Remember that Jesus was to be in the tomb the same time as Jonah was in the whale – 3 days and 3 nights. But also remember Jonah went overboard in the middle of the night and awoke in the middle of the day on shore. So that means there is a half day discrepancy in the stated time frame.
And the two witnesses are lay dead (simulating the death of Jesus) for 3-1/2 days. So why not 3 days even? Why the half day difference?
I’m not sure myself but with all the other 3-1/2’s out there I tend to think they might all be the same.
That would put the resurrection at sunrise Sunday. I’m fine with that. The Sabbath will always be the 7th day. That is in stone and unless the two tablets are unearthed and the date has changed, I’m sticking with God. No matter how important the man was who tried to change that. No apostle, no Pope, no beast (who would think to change laws and times).
Jim, sorry to pop the balloon you are floating away on, but that is not possible in any way, shape, or form.
It could not have been three and a half days, or Jesus would have said the sign was to be 3 days and 4 nights, or else 4 days and 3 nights.
Are you saying Jesus couldn’t count?
You said you were fine with Sunday morning. Well, I’m not — because it’s simply wrong, and it takes away from the sign that Jesus was our Messiah.
First of all, I don’t believe for certain that this is true. But there is the discrepancy with Jonah, and the 3 day and 3 nights was a reference to Jonah. I’m not sure if the Old Testament writers were too concerned about getting the fractions right. So 3-1/2 days would be rounded to 3, a day and a night simply meaning a FULL day. In those times probably no one worried about half days anyway so precise accuracy was not necessary.
With 3-1/2 being an important biblical number in regards to Jesus particularly, I would wonder why God used 3.0 instead yet when it comes to the 2 witnesses, the half day was specified and why it didn’t match Jesus, which is what I would expect.
SO I will chalk it up to semantics and interpretation. After all most of the world think Jesus was buried on Friday and rose on Sunday – they consider Friday +Saturday + Sunday = 3 days and completely ignore the days and nights verses. So my idea is not out of the question.
The question of the resurrection occurring on Saturday versus Sunday that gets tricky. If the idea is that Jesus waited (rested) on Saturday until the Sabbath was over, then technically he rose on Sunday, even if it was only ½ second after the Sabbath ended.
If we only had Roman records of when the angel came to the tomb and the guards fled we would know for sure. So until He returns to tell us the truth it must remain a mystery. But it is of little consequence, so let everyone have their opinions for now.
Marianne and all – True example of a Double Sabbath May 21st. 2010 –
Here is just one example of Double Sabbaths. Many more ways as well but I don’t have the time at this moment. New Moons, other Lunar days and calendars as well.
This example was in 2010 as sunset began a double-Sabbath; the regular weekly Sabbath followed immediately at sunset by one of the annual Festivals. That came on Sunday May 23rd, we will be observing the Feast of First Fruits, or Pentecost. All of God’s HOLY DAYS in Leviticus 23 are important, but each also has a unique part to reveal regarding God’s Plan of Salvation – Pentecost is no different in this regard.
Pentecost represents the giving of God’s Holy Spirit, a down-payment if you will of part of God’s very nature and the bridge for Christ to be able to dwell in us (Romans:8:9,Romans:8:11). For a review of the Feast of Pentecost, check out the study resources available at this site: http://members.ucg.org. Pentecost is a truly wonderful reminder of another step in God’s Plan of Salvation revealed in His Holy Days. As we approach that day let’s remember the sacrifice of Jesus Christ represented in the Passover that makes all of God’s plan possible, and the sin we rehearsed coming out of in the Days of Unleavened Bread, so that we can once again be reminded of the very special gift God gives of His Holy Spirit to each and every one of His called out ones.
Palisade
beacon
we just had one this year….
regular sabbath was on saturday the 23 of may, 2015
sunday the 24th of may was pentecost
Thanks Marianne and all – Remember Jesus was on the cross for only 6 hours and buried on Friday =one day- and was in the grave all day on Saturday Sabbath =2nd day and when light came early on Sunday He rose’ = the 3rd Day. That was the 3 days of being in the grave. But it was not 24 hour days. Jesus rose early on Sunday making it the 3rd day. The first day of the week and a New Creation Rev. 3:14 started.
Most Crucifixions lasted as long as 18 hours to die. But Jesus died after 6 hours and was put in the tomb on Friday cause that was the way It had to be. History and the Bible backs it up.
The Cross and Resurrection changed everything period. Even the Old Testament Sabbath as well. But sure some of the disciples and Peter who was sent to the Jews observed it to keep the peace so they could preach and teach to them the Cross and Resurrection of Jesus Christ. They being Jews themselves keep the customs. Yet after 37 years God destroyed the Temple and Jerusalem just like Jesus told His disciples. And in 70 A.D. Israel’s Obomi-nation went into “desolation” and over a million people died just by the Romans. And their temple was desecrated by Titus I think it was who put up a Roman Eagle in the Throne room= Holy of Holies. =
Also lets remember that Jesus died and Rose at 33 years old – and 37 years later the Temple mount and Jerusalem were destroyed. – what is 33 plus 37 = 70 years – 70 is a significant number as well. As Jesus said unto Peter and disciples how long shall we forgive. Not just 7 times but 70 times 7 = 490 years. So put that with Daniel- Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Isaiah etc and I hope many could be able to see it by Revelation of the Word. O.T and N.T.
One more Point – Gen. 2:2 And on the “seventh day” God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen. 2:3 And God blessed the “seventh day”, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
When you look up the word Seventh day – it has two meaning as well. Its a 7 and Also a 70. – Both numbers have a meaning in them. 7 is a complete number yet so is 7 times 70 = 490 – BOTH Meaning NEW Beginnings.
Christ fulfilled the 490 years and the NEW CREATION took over the O.T CREATION – I know that this goes against most of Futurist . But to me it is a revelation of truth. That I just caught on to a few years ago. Just studying the Hebrew words. Now The Prophets Spoke of this 70 in many scriptures. Cause it is also a Completeness of number. “”Jesus Christ fulfilled”” everything to the “”Dot and Tittle”” in the O.T.
Then Jesus Christ started the Brand New Creations again . Called Heaven and Earth – which is His Bride-Tree of Both Jew and Gentile. I hope I’m not to deep for some to understand. This is why God always had double Sabbaths. Natural and Spiritual. Search and see how many time the N.T says to set aside the 4th. Commandment like it was greater than all the rest of Gods laws. The SDA and Armstrong follower’s serve the Moses Sabbath. They got a lot to do than just go to church on Saturday. Their was so many laws just in Keeping the Saturday Sabbath and they sure do not do them cause they are so many things you could and could not do. Its a cult of false doctrine plain and simple.
Paul was the writer and teacher of the N.T just as Moses was of the O.T . Paul knew that O.T. and He never told us to go back to the Old Sabbath days and new moons etc. You cannot put “”any “day” above”” our LORD. He is even “Lord of the Sabbath”. Jesus Christ which was God in Flesh body.
The New Sabbath was all of us can Resurrect into the Holy Spirit, Quickening power, and transformation while on this planet. Turning all your Character into the Character of Jesus Christ. The N.T Sabbath is everyday to the Believer cause the Lord is the “Lord of the Sabbath” and not the other way around. Most cults only can preach one or tow doctrines and they stay with those and cannot see anything else. Its a pity.
Palisade
So keeping the commandments is a “cult of false doctrine.“
Sounds like just what Satan would preach – “If you love me [the Dark One], break God’s commandments.“
Sorry, it‘s not for me. I’ll just keep doing what Jesus preached.
Jim – a cult is when you can only focus on one or two doctrines and forget all the rest that in the Bible.
Palisade
After this one we have exhausted the whole doctrines of Sabbath’s
I hope you read this last one. And I want to tell you this. I am not a Judge of person’s. Only Jesus Christ really KNOW’S the Heart of man. And who is going and who is not. He put our names on the book of Life before the Foundation of the World was made. Jesus is the Author and Finisher of our Faith. So debating is one thing. Jesus knows all our Hearts and Works and And Faith. And knows the heart of man is deceitful and who can know it but God when HE reveals it to us. David said If God would mark all our sins then who could make it. So we need to look at that side and Say. I do care for you Bro. Jim. And I have prayed for you. As I pray for myself. So may we still be civil in our relationship. We both are seeking Christ way. I hope you can agree.
(Acts 20:7 KJV) And upon the “first day of the week”, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
For hundreds of years the Protestant Church has been worshipping on Sunday and along with this practice, Sunday was called the Sabbath by the churches. One of the biggest mistakes Christians make is to refer to Saturday as the Sabbath because when Christ arose from the dead on Sunday morning, it was on that day that God changed the Sabbath from the seventh day to the first day of the week. This change is found in all four of the Gospels.
(Mat 28:1 KJV) In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
(Mark 16:2 KJV) And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.
(Luke 24:1 KJV) Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.
(John 20:1 KJV) The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
In all four verses, the Greek words behind the underlined phrases are “μια των σαββατων” (mia tô n sabbatô n) which may be translated “first of the sabbaths. Now the reason that it is translated that way is because the word “σαββατωv” is plural. The last two letters of the word are “omega nu” (ωv) which makes the world plural. In Matthew 28:1, we read a very interesting thing. Notice it speaks about the end of the sabbath, which would have been the seventh day sabbath which was instituted under the Mosaic law. Matthew 28:1 is informing us that there was an end to the sabbath but right on the heels of the end of the sabbath, God tells us that Resurrection Sunday was the first of the sabbaths. Now the Sabbath was given under Moses about 1500 years before the resurrection of Christ and was to be observed. Now God is stating that there are new sabbaths since Resurrection Sunday was the beginning of the new sabbaths. (Exo 20:8 KJV) Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. The fourth commandment as found in Exodus 20:8 is the only one of the ten commandments which are not found in the New Testament. This means that God took the seventh day sabbath and changed it from the seventh day to the first day which is Sunday.
This is not the first thing that was changed in a single event. (Luke 22:15 KJV) And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer: Jesus had desired to eat the Passover meal with His disciples but while they were celebrating the Passover, Jesus had instituted the Lord’s Supper which was to be celebrated as a remembrance. (Luke 22:19-20 KJV) And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. {20} Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you. The Passover was now invalid as it had been replaced with the Lord’s Supper. The Passover was instituted at the time of Moses and was done under the law but now since Christ has come, the Passover no longer holds any significance because the Passover looked forward to Christ. So we see here two events which were changed at the time of the cross, that was the Sabbath and the Passover to Lord’s Supper.
This is very significant because many Christians fail to recognize the fact that everything changed at the cross. No longer is the seventh day sabbath of any significance because that too was looking forward to Christ. It looked forward as it symbolized the fact that no work was to be done on the sabbath or else it would mean that a violator would be subject to death. It looked forward to Christ because “”””He gained our salvation on Calvary and to those who think they can work and add to salvation proves they are unsaved and subject to eternal damnation. So those churches who worship on Saturday are agreeing with the Old Testament that Christ is still to come, that is, they deny, even though they may not be aware of it, but it is a denial of the first coming of Christ and His resurrection which took place as the first of the new sabbaths which God Himself had implemented. The seventh day sabbath no longer holds any spiritual significance because those who are under grace are no longer under the law and that is why the fourth commandment is not written in the New Testament.””” Christ is now our Sabbath because we rest in Him for our salvation. (Col 2:10 KJV) And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: At this juncture I wish to offer some reasons why Christians should worship on Sunday and not Saturday.
beacon
I do not agree with your interpretation of Matt 28:1
it clearly says:
now AFTER the sabbath, as the FIRST day of the week began to dawn, mary magdalene and the other mary came to see the tomb
There is NO cancellation of the original sabbath in this passage.
in fact, it continues to hold the 7th day sabbath as THE sabbath
Matthew 28:1 is mistranslated.
I believe the correct meaning of it is as follows:
Now AFTER the first HIGH SABBATH (which was the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, held on what would have been Thursday that year), on one of the WEEKLY Sabbaths – of the seven Sabbaths that were counted to Pentecost. …Just before dawn on this WEEKLY Sabbath, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary brought spices to anoint Yeshua’s body.
The Concordant Literal New Testament reads:
MATTHEW 28:1 Now it is the evening of the Sabbaths. At the lighting up into one of the Sabbaths came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to behold the sepulcher.
Young’s Literal Translation reads:
MATTHEW 28:1 And on the eve of the Sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the Sabbaths, came Mary the Magdalene, and the other Mary, to see the sepulchre.
from lexicon
there is no “high”
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G4521&t=KJV
all sabbaths are high anyhow……the great sabbath is yom kippur and it definitely does not refer to that
Sorry I’m a little slow to respond to this one…
The high day reference is in John 19:31
“The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was an HIGH DAY,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.”
that means passover was on saturday that year…and he died on friday afternoon
if they meant after passover, they would have just written that.
No Marianne, I don’t think they would have said AFTER the Passover, because that would have added to the confusion even more! The reason they would NOT have said AFTER the Passover is because that time was still DURING the Passover, as, according to Luke 22:1 the days of Unleavened Bread were ALSO called the Passover.
It was still during the Passover WEEK. Luke 22:1 reads: “Now the feast of UNLEAVENED BREAD drew nigh, which is CALLED the PASSOVER”
Here is another reference page about this subject to add to the one I gave previously (to show that I’m not referencing just one other source for my conclusions):
http://www.thewayofthemessiah.org/tsp.html
Here again is the previous reference I gave: http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Sabbath
I still believe Jesus actually rose on the Sabbath morning, which makes very good sense, as he was “Lord of the Sabbath.”
P.S. The above two links I gave disagree on some points. I think the second one is most accurate, but both back up a Sabbath day resurrection – not Sunday.
he rose on the first day after the sabbath
Sort of – he rose the first Sabbath day after the first Sabbath that week. ie. He rose on the weekly Sabbath after the first day of ULB which was an annual Sabbath.
??
sunday is the first day of the week, so for that week there is no previous sabbath….
sabbath would have ended the previous week
Re your comment “that means passover was on saturday that year…and he died on friday afternoon”
That is not what the Bible says.
According to the Bible that is IMPOSSIBLE, because:
1. There are NOT 3 NIGHTS between Friday afternoon and Sunday morning. To claim a Fri-Sun time period in the tomb is to claim that Jesus COULDN’T COUNT!
2. That does not leave time for the two Mary’s to buy spices: And when the Sabbath was OVER, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, bought spices, that they might come and anoint Him. (Mark 16:1) (note – it is BOUGHT, not brought)
3. And they returned and prepared spices and perfumes. And on the Sabbath they rested according to the commandment.
But on the first of the Sabbaths (correct translation), AT EARLY DAWN, they came to the tomb, bringing the spices which they had prepared. Luke 23:55 – 24:1
LUKE 23:56 . . . And on the Sabbath, indeed, they rested, according to the command. 24:1 And on the first of the Sabbaths, at early dawn, they came to the tomb, bearing the spices they made ready, and certain {others} with them, (YLT)
Therefore Jesus was not crucified on Friday, as he could not have been, as there was not enough time for these events to play out if he were.
Re your comment: sunday is the first day of the week, so for that week there is no previous sabbath….sabbath would have ended the previous week.
Please note that I did not mention the next week, which was Sunday. I ONLY referred to Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. That’s because there was a high Sabbath on Thursday (John 19:31) and a weekly Sabbath on Saturday, during which time all these things happened. There are two pages on herealittletherealittle.net about this. I believe the most accurate details of all this are on this site at http://www.herealittletherealittle.net/index.cfm?page_name=Jesus-Resurrection
The myth that Jesus died on Friday and rose on Sunday is completely bogus. The whole lie is an epic fail, and easily disproven if you take the time to study what I’ve just written, along with the links I’ve given.
I understand that…I was going by your comment that the resurrection occured on the 2nd sabbath that week
satruday is end of week one
sunday is begining of week two
Marianne. their days were not counted as we do today. When it became dark that was the start of another day etc. Same when the light of the morning came that automatically brought in another day as well. Jesus spent a few hours on Friday, all day Saturday, and when the early light of the morning came the women on the 1st day which in this case is the 1st. if you still in the O.T
Yet the same day for the N.T was the eighth day of the New Testament beginning. That would have been on Sunday as well.
I do not know how to make it any easier to understand. Jesus did not spend 3 – 24 hour days in the Tomb.
Or else I cannot understand the plain writings of the 1st day of the week. as I wrote above. When the “light came” that was in the New Day or Next day called the 1st day of the week. But Christ rising in the Spirit on that day made it the Eighth day of New Creation of the N.T.
When the women went to the tomb it was a dawning of the New day – 8th. day Of new beginning. N.T taking over.
All numbers in the bible have a meaning with them. 8 is the New Beginning. Let say that is wrong. Well then all we have to do is read Apostle Paul’s revelation of the Sabbaths, and new moon, and etc. and he said who has bewitched you . When you received the Spirit it was by faith. Now you say its a keeping of new moons etc. Paul said I afraid of you now. Cause they went right back to works as in Moses days. And they left the faith.
I’m with Apostle Paul on how he explained faith and law. Pretty easy to understand it if we just read it. Jesus sent us the Holy Spirit which is our Sabbath rest. That brought our deliverance, Love, Faith, Patience, fortitude, etc. Gal 5:22
Its to late for me I got to go to bed.
Palisade
It is possible to have more than one Sabbath within one week, because not all Biblical sabbaths are on day 7, although all of the 4th commandment days ARE on day 7. The other sabbaths are feast days, or holy days.
Here’s proof:
Lev 23:39 Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the LORD seven days: on the FIRST day shall be a sabbath, and on the EIGHTH day shall be a sabbath.
i know. but in this case the sunday “sabbath” followed the weekly sabbath, which put it in a different week.
I don’t follow what that has to do with the proof I’m giving. Didn’t you yourself agree that there is no such thing as a Sunday that replaces Saturday for the weekly sabbath in the Bible?
In the Bible accounts, the Sunday following had NOTHING to do with the crucifixion/resurrection week.
The 2 or 3 points I listed above %100 prove this, and a Friday crucifixion followed by a Sunday resurrection are exposed as Satanic deceptions.
maybe I am getting this comment string mixed up with another one.. i read this stuff all day long
Christ was most likely murdered on Wednesday and rose on Sunday morning.
What is Satanic is the Universal Church and it’s dogma. Not the less informed believing in Christ’s Resurrection.
The Universal Church moved the Sabbath to Sunday during a time most could not read or write. Mary worship, praying to Saints and infant Baptism mislead the many.
Leatherneck, Christ could NOT have risen Sunday morning as there are 4 nights in between. Have you researched this in detail and thoroughly read all the links I’ve given? If so, give Bible proof for your position, including an informed analysis of the mistranslated verses in question.
However I do agree with the rest of your comment.
Whatever gets him three days in the ground. Not two days. If he was murdered on Friday evening, he would have to go from there to Saturday, then Sunday, then Monday evening.
So, the current idea he was murdered on Friday does not work.
Later,
The question that needs to be answered: is God telling us to keep the Sabbath day or something much more. The “Sabbath rest” should not be equated with the keeping of the 7th day Sabbath of the Old Covenant, because the Israelites who did keep it did not enter this “rest.” The writer explains there is “another Day.” Since Joshua and Israel kept the 7th day Sabbath this must mean something other than what Sabbatarians interpret it as. Joshua did not bring them into this day nor did he enter it himself.
David spoke of another day of rest. Heb.4:7-8… “saying in David, TODAY, after so long a time, as it is said, TODAY if you will hear his Voice, harden not your hearts. For if Joshua had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of ANOTHER DAY? There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.” Joshua whose Hebrew name is equal to Jesus spoke of the one who came to deliver this rest. This was another day not a specific day like the 7th but a life that is given to all through the Messiah.
If there is another day then it isn’t Saturday. There is another rest that the author is referring to in the future. The Israelites did not enter God’s rest because of unbelief, not having faith but they did keep the Sabbath. They had the rules and regulations the oracles, but it was not mixed with faith. God has always looked to our heart, our attitude in the Spirit. “””The word for rest in vs.9 is the same word for Sabbath in the Greek.”” It is a Sabbath that never ends.”””” In Heb.4.the author writes For the one who enters his rest he himself rests as God himself rested from his works. Today Jesus is our Sabbath. our every type, command, ordinance in the Old Testament He fulfilled.
Israel in the “””Old covenant rested in a day;”””” “”””we rest in the Person””” “””and His finished work”””. It was a picture of the future rest in the new covenant, the cross has the same implication, “””God finished his work. “”Our Sabbath day is rest in our soul, it is by faith””. Under faith we can cease from our own works. Works that were required for the Israelites to do in the Old covenant to be accepted by god In this way the believer enters in and ceases from his own labors. “”””God was bringing Israel to the promised land after their labors in Egypt “””this typifies rest in Messiah.””
Palisade
Palisade, I was not going to bother answering you anymore because you did not concede the valid points I made. However, your last post was presented in a more logical way, and so I will answer it. However I’m done debating it.
The point you are making is consistent with Hebrews chapter 4 up to a point. I agree we are to rest in Christ. But to declare a day of rest on pagan Sunday instead, or to do away with the Sabbath as obsolete altogether, simply because we ultimately rest in Jesus, is serious error.
HEBREWS 4:9 is alternately translated as “So then, it is firmly sure that the people of God are to keep a Sabbath-rest.” (Norton NT Peshitta)
Therefore the Sabbath IS still in force literally, as well as spiritually in Christ.
The day is not just done away with when we have God’s laws in our hearts. I don’t read it that way, but I understand you do.
Both sides of the coin have now been presented well enough for anyone to make up their own mind… I’m not the One who people need to answer to…
Good luck presenting your case to God in person when the time comes.
Yeah, me too. In my opinion you have failed to prove your point. There is nothing else to say.
I listed 2 dozen Sabbath proofs and you could not answer to any of them. You continue to rely on the same misinterpretations and your faith that the Holy Spirit has guided you to these opinions.
But others who read this will make up their own minds and I pray for God’s guidance in their journey to the truth.
Bless all.
Beacon,
You are correct so keep the faith. The Holy Spirit resides in you but don’t worry about the Saturday, Sunday thing. These Law people have the stumbling block before them so they just don’t get it. They reject that YHVH came in the flesh and took all our sins (past and future) upon HIM and therefore the Law must be in affect. These COG folks and others have the stumbling block of religion on them. The spirit of religion is a hard sprit to be deliver from.
However, the Holy Spirit gave me this answer this morning (not just this day) and convicted me to answer them in this way. The believers in the Law reject Jesus as YHVH and as their savior. Their flesh wants something (the Law) for them to do (works) so they can be justified over others. They want to go before God and say they kept the Sabbath etc… Please remember you have to do ALL those things and do them as Jesus preached in Matt. My thoughts: “They want to quote scriptures and testify how good they are etc… Self righteousness. ”
Here is what the Holy Spirit wants you all to know. First it was YHVH (God) on the cross and that He took all your sins upon Him. Why? Because He is the ONLY one that can take sin and then sin is destroyed. Do you all remember what happens to flesh or sin that touches the Ark (YHVH presences). The flesh dies. Sin dies (destroyed). Sin and God can not exists together and guess who wins EVERY TIME or guess which is destroyed. This was the purpose of the whole OT and the Law. Before Christ there was requirements coming before the Lord and only a few could come before Him because they had sin and would die. Faith in YHVH was the only thing that cleansed people such as Abraham, Jacob, Joseph, the prophets, David and Paul.
Believers in that Jesus is the Word of God (YHVH in the flesh) then know His work at the cross was good enough and therefore He died for us. Jesus took upon HIMSELF the sin of the believers at the cross. Therefore, sin was destroyed for us and in us. And now we are the righteousness of God. Not by anything we’ve done (except believe and accept Jesus) and have faith that He that lives in us is greater than this world. The Holy Spirit lives is us and convicts us to do HIS righteousness. We just need to listen to His voice. Give your will to Him.
If we are righteous before YHVH, then no law is required and all the other covenants are imputed to us. That is the ONLY way. There can be no other way. No other and it was NEVER suppose to be about what we do it is WHAT the Holy Spirit does in us.
The Law is the stumbling block because they reject God’s love and HIS work. They want to have their own works stand for them so they look good before other man’s eyes not God. The Law becomes there righteousness and they can hold themselves high. Sorry people it doesn’t work that way.
I prefer to reject the world and hold my eyes on Jesus (the Tree of Life) not the tree of death (Law). This is also what Eve did in the garden. She failed to keep her eyes on the Tree of Life and the accuser deceived her to look to herself. Actually people that follow the Law worship themselves instead of YHVH (Jesus, Jehovah, Yah, Lord) . They worship their own goodness and hope that their righteousness is better than others. It is truly the stumbling block. The Law was fulfilled. Jesus lives. I hope this blesses someone and Praise the Lord when grace comes upon you.
So Beacon keep the faith and blessings to all others.
If the LAW is so bad, I wonder why God describes his ENEMY in terms of “the Lawless One”?
“And then shall be revealed the Lawless One, whom the Lord Jesus shall slay with the breath of his mouth, and bring to nought by the manifestation of his coming;” 2 Thessalonians 2:8 (ASV, YLT etc.)
Just an interesting point to consider, in passing…
Thank you so much “bro. cv” I appreciate your post. You are right on target. And explained it well.
Palisade – God bless
To Robert and Jim
Jesus said:
Matt. 13:38 The field is the world; the “good seed” are the children of the kingdom; but the “tares are the children of the wicked one;”
1 John 2:13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
1 John 3:12 Not as Cain, who “”was of that wicked one,”” and “slew his brother“. And wherefore slew he him? Because “””his “””””own works””””” were evil“”””, and his brother’s righteous.
Cain had NO REVELATION of what it took to be a “Child of God.” He just wanted to rule mankind. And his seed were war mongers and still are. Government establisher’s. Nico-latians – Rev. 1 and all through the church ages except for the 2nd church age.
But Abel had a REVELATION – He knew it was the “Blood” that got contaminated by Eve and Adam. That is why Jesus Christ had to Come. Abel gained favor with God. And Cain got Jealous and killed him for it. Cain just had a pretty little flock of weeds and food that were not even fresh. They were left-overs of his WORKS OF HIS HANDS.
Cain was the first of the “Natural brute beasts” of the whole world.
2 Peter 2:12 But these, as natural BRUTE BEASTS , made to be taken and “destroyed“, “speak evil of the things that they “”understand not“”; and shall utterly “””perish”” in their own corruption;
Jude 1:10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know “”naturally“””, “”as brute beasts,””” in those things they corrupt themselves. = It was anti-christ that killed Jesus Christ. Rome and Church jews. Joined themselves together to Kill Jesus Christ. The Jews were the real slayer of Christ. He came to His own and His own would not receive HIM as their Messiah.
JUDE 1:11- Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
JUDE 1:12- These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; “”trees”” whose fruit withereth, without fruit, “twice dead”, plucked up by the roots; = Israel as a whole was eating from the “tree of death.” They had no understanding of the Scriptures.
JUDE 1:13- Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.
1 JOHN 2: 18 ¶ Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
I JOHN 2:19- They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
I JOHN 2:20- ¶ But ye have an “unction”= revelation from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
HELLO – The “True Bride” has an “”Unction from the HOLY ONE.”” Jesus told his disciples they knew all things.
The True Bride is not getting their doctrine from just a Saturday worship. It comes from the Holy Spirit entering into your Body, Mind and Soul so that you have a “Character” that is NOT BEASTLY but HOLY like Christ had. Jesus is the HOLY UNCTION.
I JOHN 2:21- I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
1 JOHN 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
The True Bride lives off of Revelation from the Spirit of God.
Rev. 2:6 But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. = organization of manmade creeds.
REVELATION 2:7- He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to “”eat of the tree of life“”, which is in the midst of the “”paradise of God“”.
Im right now in Paradise by the Holy Spirit living in me.
The Tree of life is only mentioned in Genesis and Revelation.
Jesus brought the Tree back and it is the N.T NOW
PS- quit waiting for anti-christ to appear. He is all over the world as I speak.
All ONE Body of un-believers deceived by their Church’s and Worldly Governments. Rome has already taken them over.
Palisade
The New Testament on the commandments:
Mat 19:17
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Jhn 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Jhn 15:10
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.
1Jo 2:3
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
1Jo 3:22
And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
1Jo 5:2
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jo 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
Rev 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Rev 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
So, according to the bible, you do not love God and you do not know Him.
And you call that paradise?
jim
I think 1 Jo 5:3 explains it…..
jesus said the commandments of god are not grevious.
much modern thought consider them bondage to be free from
Well to some folks it‘s darned inconvenient to no be able to lie, steal and kill someone whenever you feel like it.
Ya know?
To my friend Jim
Acts 17: 30 And the times of this “”ignorance God winked at;””” but NOW commandeth all men every where to repent:
Acts 3:17 And now, brethren, I wot that through “”ignorance”” ye did it, as did also your rulers.
ACTS 3: 22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; “” HIM shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. “” = the kinsmen redeemer.
Rev . 5:1 ¶ And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the “”backside“”, sealed with seven seals. =completed Revelation of the Mystery of Jesus Christ.
a. Backside is the meaning of the N.T. Compared to the length of the O.T. The N.T “finished” it all for Jews and Greeks. The N.T completed “Jacobs latter” and Moses O.T message was over when Jesus proclaimed His N.T Message and Opened up the “Seals of mystery” of the entire O.T era bringing it into the N.T wine era. Wine = Holy Ghost in you. Greeks and all. God was our “Kinsmen redeemer” clothed in the Body of Jesus Christ. The Seals were open when Christ spoke forth HIS divine message to every generation and all others to come.
Acts 17: 30 And the times of this “”ignorance God winked at;””” but NOW commandeth all men every where to repent:
Acts 3:17 And now, brethren, I wot that through “”ignorance”” ye did it, as did also your “RULERS“.
Rev. 5:2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
REVELATION 5:3- And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
a. This proves that Jesus was God Himself in a Flesh body.
REVELATION 5:4- And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
a. All of mankind except for Adam and Eve were born through sex desire which is the original sin. Only 3 people on the Earth without sex birth. Adam and Eve fell. But Jesus Was a quickening Spirit not made from Clay as Adam. Only God can forgive sin= Jesus Christ.
REVELATION 5:5- And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, “hath= past tense” prevailed to “open the book“, =Complete Bible Revelation of Old and New – and to loose the seven seals thereof.
REVELATION 5:6- ¶ And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood “a Lamb” as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
a. We all know this was Jesus Christ the Lamb. Revealing even the future of the 7 church ages.
REVELATION 5:7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
a. God was the Word. Yet He took it upon Himself to become or “Prepare a Body for Himself” to be the Kinsmen redeemer and Savior of all men that would receive the Lambs sacrifice not Moses now but Jesus Christ the lamb. Jesus send us all the Holy Spirit the would receive it by FAITH. And Jesus said we will know ALL things. By the HOLY SPIRIT.
REVELATION 5:8- And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
a. The 24 elders is the complete Bride. Old and New Testament In Christ.
REVELATION 5:9- And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
a. This New Song is not just Moses New song but it now become a New Song for all who receive Christ.
REVELATION 5:10- And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
a. Peter said the same thing. Its NOW we reign with Christ. In the Holy Spirit.
REVELATION 5:11- And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
REVELATION 5:12- Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
REVELATION 5:13- And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
REVELATION 5:14- And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.
ACTS 3:23- And it shall come to pass, that “”every soul,”” which will not hear that prophet,”” “”shall be destroyed”” from among the people.
a. That Prophet is Jesus Christ. You must have Him IN YOU. HOW By the HOLY SPIRT. That gives us all power to fulfill the whole law. Including the Sabbath which Christ is the Lord of also.
b. Jesus is our Sabbath – do not let yourself become “ignorant of the Truth“.
ACTS 3:24- Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
A. Not being able to understand who and what Christ really did for you. Puts all into “alienated status“ and still “ignorant“ about Jesus Christ.
EPHESIANS 4:19- Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
EPHESIANS 4:20- But ye have not so learned Christ;
EPHESIANS 4:21- If so be that ye have heard him, and “”have been taught by him“”, “”as the truth is in Jesus: “”
It is “”ignorance”” to put Moses teachings “”over Jesus Christ teachings“”. Even Moses and the Prophets said so.
If Moses law was perfect. It had to be Faith in the Holy Ghost even then. Christ died for that Faith so you could have it along with the whole world if they would seek it. No body could do it without Faith.
From Abel to the last Prophet all had FAITH. The Holy Ghost revealed the RIGHT way to them even in the O.T. before Moses ever come on the seen.
a. Moses only built earthly types and shadow’s of what was to Come in the finishing of the Sealed Message.
b. Jesus Opened the Seals – Moses did not.
c. Yet Moses had Christ in Him. But was still a sinner. That is why He could not cross over to the Holy Land of Promise.
d. None of us can live a Holy Life without the Holy Spirit IN US today. NOW that is the Truth.
I thank my God HE died for “my ignorance” so that I could receive ALL the Truth that is only found in Jesus Christ. WE as believers have to “empty” ourselves of our own thinking and righteousness. To receive Jesus Christ. Without it you a just a brute beast. Who’s mind will go reprobate. Col. 3:5 says to mortify your body. And that goes for your Mind as well.
Palisade – in sincerity.
Don’t bother posting any more bible verses. I have studied these verses and they do not mean what you think they mean. The verses I posted above all clearly show we are to keep versesaw. I can find no interpretations of these veses the claim they say the opposite.
And neither can you.
Enjoy being lawless… while you can.
When did God make you my judge. You say I’m lawless. Just cause I believe Jesus Christ is my real Sabbath= Possessing the Holy Spirit – God forgive you Jim. Ignorance cannot be helped. O.T God called it a Land with Milk and honey – but it sure had to be fought for. And it was not what they thought it was. Same in this day.
The Seals were a finished work before the foundation of the world was formed. By “foreknowledge” of God knew everything before HE ever made mankind. God knew HE would have to “Prepare Himself a Body” and step into it. To Save all mankind. Or HE would not be God. If God does not know the Beginning from the End then HE is not God. He gave faith to Abel to begin with. Then Noah received Grace and Faith from God. Abraham had Faith. The law of Moses – Moses had to have faith. You being a grown man should know if God had something better . He started out with Faith in Abel and finishes with Faith in the N.T. By faith you are sealed unto the day of Redemption. Eph. 4:30. And the believer just by His Heart and Nature knows the Commandments and walks in them. If we practice Sin then you are backslid. If you do not practice sin. I do not practice sin. Do you. If I make a mistake and do sin. By Faith I believe the Lord will forgive me. Jesus had to forgive the whole world along with his disciples that he taught for 3 and better years. Jesus said just seeking God you are blessed.
You need to read Heb. 11 chapter. It might be a eye opener for you.
Palisade – so long my friend – I liked the debut. And I stayed with it. But I agree its over now. I hope and pray the best for you.
I think what we got here is a clash between literal and spiritual interpretations of scripture
might be best to save yourselves stress and not debate it anymore
When I used the term “lawless” I was referring to your point that the law doesn’t exist any more – nailed to the cross, as they say.
So, just like the old West, there are no longer any laws. They used to call Tombstone Arizona a lawless town before Wyatt Earp arrived, So by that same logic, the whole world is lawless for the last 2000 years, and perhaps forever.
But even in Tombstone most people lived by a code of behavior and that code was based on the Ten Commandments. So, even in the lawless state Jesus left the world in today, many of us still believe in a code of behavior that will prevent anarchy, even if the US constitution didn’t exist.
So I continue to follow God’s laws because I believe they are necessary for a civilized society. I don’t believe in lawlessness.
In your world, lawless is the norm, it is nothing to strive for or against. So why are you so concerned that I use that term? In my context, it fits you and your concept perfectly.
tMay God bless you anyway, my friend.
The Law is for the “unrighteous”. We are “righteous” in Jesus Christ. So if you say you are in Christ and believe in Jesus then you have His righteousness. This is the ONLY righteousness you can ever have.
So here goes Jim G. if you don’t believe Jesus is in you then you must be unrighteous and live by the Law. That is the only way you can have a smidgeon of any righteousness,
However, if you say you are in Christ or believe in Jesus then you must have faith that you are righteous, so therefore you don’t have to live by the Law. You live by the Holy Spirit and He directs your path.
Now if you say you live in Christ AND say you live by the Law then you say Christ is NOT righteous and you blasphemy God. In review you call God (YHVH) a liar.
Can someone please answer: What does Deut. 5: 2-4 mean? To me it says the old covenant of the Law was ONLY to those that were going to the promised land. Not to the Fathers but to those that were living then. They were to teach to their children. I still live by the New Covenant of Jesus but this really spoke to me the last couple of days.
CV
you cannot disobey the law and be righteous….
Marianne has expressed it perfectly.
The other thing I can’t understand is why CV and Beacon think that God, who changes NOT (“For I am the Lord, I change not” Malachi 3:6 ) HAS changed his mind about keeping the law.
He changes NOT.
Jesus and the Father are one … “I and my Father are one.” John 10:30 and therefore in perfect agreement.
“Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is NO VARIABLENESS, neither shadow of turning.” James 1:17
So where and when did variableness start in the Bible? Christians follow Christ – there is NO variableness in Christ, and therefore there can be NO change in the definition of righteousness and keeping the law when we too live in Christ.
CV,
You need to define righteousness before you go any further. If we aspire to be as righteous as Jesus we must walk in His shoes and do as He did – He was our example of ‘righteousness.” He kept the Sabbath and all the other commandments. That is what made Him righteous. He “did right” by God, and God gave Moses a new covenant (Deu 5) consisting of the Ten Commandments. Later he added the 5 books of Moses.
You can’t say you are righteous simply because you believe in Jesus. The bible says in the millennium He will put His laws into our hearts – that will make us righteous. Al Capone was a devout catholic, went to church every Sunday. Then he engineered the St. Valentines Day Massacre. Was he a righteous man? According to you, he was. You think maybe if you have the Holy Spirit you will never do anything that does not please God. So what would displease Him?
Please list some things that would displease the Lord.
To All
Isaiah 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
Isaiah 28:12 To whom he said, This is the REST wherewith ye may cause the weary to REST; and this is the REFRESHING : yet they would not hear.
Isa. 33: 19 Thou shalt not see a fierce people, a people of a deeper speech than thou canst perceive; of a “”stammering tongue“”, that “”thou canst not understand“”.
ISAIAH 33:20 – Look upon Zion, the city of our solemnities: thine eyes shall see Jerusalem a quiet habitation, a “”tabernacle that shall not be taken down;”” not one of the stakes thereof shall ever be removed, neither shall any of the cords thereof be broken.
a. This is what Jesus Christ did for us – He gave us the Kingdom of God and we tabernacle with him.
ISAIAH 33:21- But there the glorious LORD will be unto us a place of broad rivers and streams; wherein shall go no galley with oars, neither shall gallant ship pass thereby.
ISAIAH 33:22- For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver, the LORD is our king; he will save us.
Acts. 7:48 Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,
ACTS 7:49 Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?
ACTS 7:50 Hath not my hand made all these things?
ACTS 7:51 ¶ Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
These scripture’s above are very plain.
Jesus Said to — Seek ye first the Kingdom of God and HIS righteousness. —HIS is a personal pronoun if I’m not mistaken. Correct me if I’m wrong.
Rest is in Jesus Christ only.
Palisade
Is Palisade saying Jesus is our righteousness? If so, I agree, therefore, when resting in Jesus we now conform to Jesus standards of righteousness. BUT Jesus does not now drop down to our standards – which are UNrighteous.
Jesus pays the penalty of our sins only so far as our intent is to lift our standards up to Him, not down to us. To deliberately sin is still a sin, and it seems like you are then in danger of needing Jesus to be crucified for you all over again, but that’s not part of the plan:
Heb 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
I knew you COG folks deny Jesus as YHVH. You have the stumbling block before you and you can’t receive His word. Jesus IS OUR Righteousness so that is “How I define IT”. Jesus is Lord (YHVH, Jehovah, Elohim) so if He is in me and my righteousness then I am righteous. The righteous do not live by the Law but it is for the unrighteous. He defines it not YOU or any other man.
You folks are the ones “put him to an open shame” by denying His work and trying to stand on YOUR righteousness. Fail. Receive this word Jim and then receive His peace and rest.
Jesus is near and it is time for you to get out of elementary school and graduate. The Law was for children and not for “Sons”. The Holy Spirit will guide you.
Robert you say the Jesus only died to lift our standard to Him. We could NEVER be His standard, that is the point. Jesus is IN us and His standard is there. Therefore He is my righteousness and He defines it NOT man. Go ahead and live to your self and try to be righteous. The law is death. Does that mean the law is not perfect “God forbid” but it is for the unrighteous to model to strive for. Doing the law never did it because you could never adhere to it as God can. I have no more to say.
If you receive this then you are suppose to. If you don’t then I am sorry you were not suppose to or Can’t because you are NOT of the Father. You have to realize Jesus came to free us from the law and Judaism (which is from Edom) and all other “isms”. Only baptism is good. Baptism is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit (Elohim).
Don’t you know the Jews (not Israelites) changed the word long ago and several times in the course of history. They changed it in Babylon (major changes adopted some Hellenisms etc..) and after the temple was destroyed in 70 AD (reworded scriptures to remove all references to Jesus). This is only to get you to come to the Gospel and not to chastise anyone but this is the only way. Time to grow up and become sons. Forget the ways of man (religion) and let the Holy Spirit guide you.
Peace and Truth in Jesus
You say “don’t stand on your righteousness” and “let the Holy Spirit guide you.” Great advice. I do this, and am always guided towards keeping the commandments, never away from them.
If you are guided away from the commandments then we must be being giuded by different “holy spirits!”
P.S. — CV, I’m adding a little more here because people seem to have no qualms about filling these pages up with garbage, so a little more of the truth is a good thing…
To answer your last post more fully:
I agree it’s not our righteousness that we should stand on. No, it’s not, it’s God’s.
Therefore it is Christ in us and through us who helps us KEEP the commandments, not break them. That would mean that we too are in harmony with God, keeping the commandments — unless you think that I can be breaking them while Christ is in me keeping them, all at the same time!
How could Christ be my righteousness, and live in me by breaking the commandments?
And vice versa, how could I live in Christ and do anything that both Christ and the Father (both being in agreement) originally determined was against righteousness?
If they agreed on this in the first place -and they did (John 10:30), and if they won’t change their mind -and they won’t (Mal 3:6), then obviously they will guide me to the same harmony that they have on this subject.
Therefore, if I have this harmony with God in my inner world, my actions will reflect this harmony, and it will flow through to my conduct in the outer world.
In case I don’t have time for more comments for a while, I hope this really answers the subject well, although I suspect people convinced against their will, will keep to the same wrong opinions still.
So you can’t think of a single thing that would displease the Lord.
True lawlessness – anything goes. I guess Hitler didn’t do anything bad after all. And Al Capone was a real peach of a guy.
Your whole concept just doesn’t make any sense. It is completely illogical and anti-bible and anti-Christ.
You are living in a mystical world where nothing you do is bad as long as you think you have the Holy Spirit.
Well, the Holy Spirit is in me and he gives me a different perspective. He tells me to live by every word that comes from the mouth of God, including all those verses I showed you that tell us to keep the commandments. I know one thing that displeases God: to ignore His words.
You seem to do this with little thought… think harder!
Bless
Dear Robert – you have proved over, and over, and over again. You do not believe in the N.T period. You cannot hear what the “Spirit is saying” .
You have chosen your path and you would rather die than renew your mind, h ear t , soul, and body – You are the one that is in Un-belief. That last Scripture of Isa. I sent you was right on with the out pouring of the Holy Spirit in Acts. 2 and 3 to all people – all gentile Nations as well as Jews. Your head is harder than Peter’s was when Jesus had to give him 3 visions before he would go into a Gentiles house. Open up your mind and listen to what God has told you on all these great scriptures we have sent you. If you cannot see by now then you might never see the whole truth. Only the Holy Spirit can reveal it to you. You seem to have a great education. But you have to empty your mind, soul, and body and “get yourself” out of the way to receive “Revelation”. Let the Holy Spirit overtake you.
Whats the greatest gift in the whole Bible. 1 Cor. 13 say’s LOVE of GOD that heals us from all sins, past, present and future. Then it says after LOVE — is FAITH = Revelation – Then Charity.
God is the “Author and Finisher” of your Faith. He is the “Alpha and Omega” and knew you before the foundation of the world where you would go.
That is Called Foreknowledge – If God does not posses the above. Then He is not God. He knows the beginning from the End. I Thank God I am His Son as well. By Gods foreknowledge and I have Eternal life right Now living in me. You cannot take if from me. By Love and Faith in Him.
Palisade
Jim, Palisade must be speaking to me now, because he can’t answer you. Good work Jim.
gays and lesbians “love” but do not obey..
are they saved and have eternal life?
Palisade, I apologize for ignoring you. The Holy Spirit has let me know that is being rude. Nevertheless, the NT does not back you up in the way you think.
When I quote you relevant portions to prove your errors, you ignore them, so I’m at loss to know how to help you. Sorry.
Dear Robert – you got to be kidding me. You never replied to most any post I sent you with a meaningful answer. See if you can understand this last post I have sent you. I have much of it double spaced. So much easier to read.
St. John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but “”grace and truth”” came by Jesus Christ. — Yes or No
TRUTH defined 225 aletheia from 227
1. what is true “””IN ANY MATTER “”” under consideration
A. Christians have many MATTERS to consider in living in Holiness.
2. There are many MATTER’A in considering being Sons of God in all the duties of believers- not just 10
3. Its a “”Commandment to know Truth” as a personal excellence as Christ was the TRUTH –
Rom. 1:1
4. Its a ” Commandment” “”””ye present your bodies a living sacrifice”””
5. Its a “Commandment”” to be HOLY.
6. Its a “Commandment to “””be not conformed to this world”””
Rom. 1:2
7. Its a “Commandment that ye Must be “transformed” by the “renewing of your mind”.
8. Its a “Commandment” believers have to have the “” MIND OF CHRIST””
9. Its a “Commandment” to prove what is that good and acceptable, and perfect will of God. Or else you could get hung up on just ONE doctrine.
10. To be like Jesus – Its a “Commandment” against worldly affection, pretence, simulation, falsehood, and deceit.
11. All these commandments are also in the Bible and N.T.
“ANY MATTER” is important to Jesus Christ. Their are many morals, and principals that have to be addressed to understand the Purity of Walking with Christ.
b. Not just 10 law. Satan can get into you in a 1,000 different ways.
c. Truth is the most important virtue we possess. Their are 7 virtue’s in Peter’s epistle. What about those virtue’s. Are they valid. Absolutely. If you do not do them you will fall. But if you do them you will never fall. So have you ever really studied those 7 virtues. Virtue is Strength. So if you do not want to fall. You had better practice them always. 2 Pet. 1-10 So this is
7 commandments from Peter so you will not fall.
d. Do you have the “patience” of Moses. He lost his patience one and got really angry. HEY but God forgave HIM. Cause he was chosen before the foundation of the world was laid. Just like any Christian is today.
e. Moses was the “Meekest man” in the land of that day.
f. Do you possess all that Moses and all the Prophets possessed. Do you have “Thus saith the Lord” and it never fails.
g. Yet Moses killed a man. Murdered him and sinned against God with anger. Have you got anger in you. Have you never slipped up and got angry so bad that you sinned. And had to apologize to God and man.
h. Truth is what sets you FREE – you can “”try”” to keep the 10 commandments if you want to. But they are a lot more than just 10. The only one you all talk about is the Sabbath. That would be the Easiest I would think. In Moses day Judgment would come down on those that sinned. But its the same as in Jesus Day. Cause it was Jesus that was in Moses “”sinful body and mind”. You cannot get by with any sin without having repercussions of judgment no matter who you are. But that is the Love of the Gentle Hand of Jesus Christ. Who is our High Priest now. Suffering brings perfection Peter said. Yea we might have to suffer if we do not give up ALL sin. Our High Priest is the “Author and Finisher” of our faith. Any Christian that had his name on the book of life is the same as Moses. God forgives a humble heart that trembles at His word.
I. Loving the “”Truth is a Commandment”” as well.
J. How you dress “” is a Commandment as well””.
K. How you give your money “” is a Commandment as well””. If you don’t believe that read Malachi – God will sure tell you.
St. John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, BUT “”grace and truth”” came by Jesus Christ. It was the Law first – but like a loving Mother and Dad we have mercy upon our children. Cause they are our own.
Grace – What about the “Law of Grace” “”It is a commandment”” and a Must have in your heart, spirit, and soul towards the Lord and others.
a. grace; that which affords joy, pleasure, delight, sweetness, charm, loveliness: grace of speech
b. You are “”Commanded to be Merciful and forgiving””. loving-kindness, favour: used of the merciful kindness by which God, through knowledge, affection, and kindles them to the exercise of the Christian virtues
BEING SPIRITUAL IS A COMMANDMENT
A. the spiritual condition of one governed by the power of divine grace
b. The token or proof of grace, with benefit; a gift of grace;
c. Its a “Commandment that you must have Grace” in your life. If Christ is in you. You will possess Christ’s Grace as well. A must. Not an option.
d. Its a absolute “Commandment to have the token”. That means the Price has been paid for your salvation. That Moses could NOT DO. Moses message was condemning sin. “Jesus Message was forgiving sins by the Gift of Grace and Truth. ”
e. “””Faith is a Absolute Commandment””. Through out the whole N.T and was O.T it was by faith you won the victory.
Yes Grace and Truth Came by Jesus Christ – NOT MOSES – was a sinner as well. Remember he lived in Pharaoh’s house for 40 years. Judgement time came and he became a different man when He saw the Pillar of fire talk to him. The same as in Acts. 2:38 – Now that is a commandment as well. You must receive the Holy Ghost with Fire. Meaning it will stir up the gifts from within. And you will walk the walk and talk the talk.
Last but not least.
What about the “Commandment to NOT be Ignorant” in the scriptures. Christ actually died and gave His blood for you to lose your own ignorance and take on Jesus Christ wisdom of Truth and Grace and Love and Faith.
Palisade
Tom-No one is saying you are not sincere in what you are saying. You might not understand, but we (those involved in these discussions) experience the same things you do, in the Messiah! We love Him as much as you do, only we have learned, with joy to obey Him-walking as He walked -emulating His life, which is what we believe we were meant to do. His instructions (laws) were meant to keep us on the right path and for our health and well being in this life that we walk in the earth. What you call evil-we call good! It is a dangerous thing to call 3/4 of Yah’s Word evil! Paul never said that, and he is the only one you got this understanding from. Paul was a Hebrew and finished out his life following the way of life that the Messiah lived, by keeping His commandments and receiving His sacrifice on the tree! In doing so he held fast the testimony of Messiah Yahshua! Law-Messiah the Word+Grace- Messiah our sin sacrifice=Salvation. It is how the Word ends in Revelations! Being called the “LEAST” is not something to strive for!
Shalom
Thanks AI.
Beacon /Palisade /Tom, I think we all agree that keeping the 10 commandments alone does not make us righteous – but where we differ is understanding that the opposite of this is NOT true.
NOT keeping the commandments does make us UNrighteous.
Keeping the commandments is included in being righteous. The whole of the Bible says so.
Other things, such as patience, may be included when we are righteous, but they are not relevant to the fact that you cannot ditch any of the commandments and remain righteous.
As AI said, you misunderstand Paul.
But don’t feel too bad, most so called Christian churches also misunderstand Paul.
Once again, unfortunately, the majority are wrong. “Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.”
Well we all had a good study anyway. Its good for the soul. Only thing you missing is that Jesus Christ brought to us the “Kingdom of God”. To dwell in us. Matt. 6:33 – and we have HIS righteousness and live in a SPIRITUAL Kingdom NOW. His will be done IN EARTH as it is IN HEAVEN. Sons of God are Eternal. By the “Spiritual Sabbath” which keeps all days as Holy Days. Also Paul took Gentiles into the Jews synagogues. That bout cost him is life. Paul was the man that God Picked to give the “Mystery of the Revelation of Jesus Christ.” Yet indeed it is a mystery. And very Few will enter into it.
I sit under a Real Prophet who’s name was William Branham. He was the Elijah of our day. He had “Thus saith the Lord” which you will have to admit you do not even hear that anywhere in this Sodom and Gomorrah Laodicean age.
The Lord spoke to me yesterday through the Holy Spirit that the Church of the first 60 years of the 20th century preached nothing but hell fire and brimstone messages. But from around mid-sixties things started changing.
They now are just preaching a luke warm message that cannot even get a person baptized in the Holy Spirit called a New Birth.
Without the Holy Spirit you are lost. You SDA say you got to serve God on the 7th. day or we that don’t are lost. One of us is wrong that is for sure. And I don’t think it is me brother.
Thanks for the debate – It was interesting – Palisade.
I don’t remember reading any posts on this website from anyone saying they are SDA. Although it makes little difference, as the Laodicean condition would apply to pretty well every congregation on earth, whoever they are, if the group is part of a corporate body.
I believe in general God works with individuals, not corporate bodies.
Amen.
I live on a farm in Canada and we raise beef cattle. We had a solid red heifer,she had her first calf this year.We named her Scarlet. Both her parents were black and her calf is black.Is our now cow special? We’ve had a couple of interesting things occur with our cattle,I feel were connected to God.
caprice
if you want your heifer evaluated, contact a jewish orthodox synogogue