No More Sea – Pangea?

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The book of Revelation says that someday, there will be no sea.

Rev 21:1 ¶ And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Imagine a world where there are no oceans or large bodies of water.

The earth is just land only.

I would have to assume the large oceans would go under the land masses, and water would be available as underground springs that would come up in spots.

God said he would restore the earth back to the way it was.

See the videos below for a visualization.

I am not proposing that a pangea existed in the past, or that this will occur in the future.

I am also not endorsing the “millions of years” mentioned.

I am just presenting this as a way to see how the continents can separate and fit together, excluding the sea.

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If all the land masses actually came together to form one land mass, and there really was no sea left, then the planet would be much smaller, maybe only half the size it is now.

Another possibility is that what is at the bottom of the oceans and seas now would rise and create new land masses, and/ or that mountain ranges would flatten, and spread out, and create more land area as well.

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One thing to consider also:

No more sea means no more sea life?

That is hard to imagine.

Maybe all the seas and oceans will be converted into tens of thousands of small lakes, and the animal life will be preserved.

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Videos showing pangea concept:


67 Responses to “No More Sea – Pangea?”

  1. Interesting…however, the Oceans are “basically” the “soup” for life here on Earth. “I” think, the phrase, “…no more Sea(s)…”, refers to the “many” religions on Earth today…that on the “New Earth”, there will be only ONE religion and only ONE “belief”…in that of God and Jesus Christ! AS it says in the Scriptures.

    • Hi Bob,

      Where you say above, “the Oceans are “basically” the “soup” for life here on Earth.” with that, are you saying that you are a “Theo-evolutionist”?

      If you are referring to possibly, a test that was conducted by a Dr. Stanley Miller in I believe, 1953, regarding the “Oparin-Haldane hypothesis”, its credibility has been dismissed years ago.

      And if you are saying that, “the Oceans are “basically” the “soup” for life here on Earth.” is that not a theory that would be considered contrary to scripture?

      My intentions here are in no way meant to be misunderstood as being confrontational at all, so please do not take them that way.

      I am just trying to understand what your personal beliefs consist of, that would then allow me to define an explanation for what you say.

      Thanks.

      Be Blessed

      • Naw! Not “even!” lol

        Where do all the rivers run? Where does most of the “waste” products end up to be recycled? etc.,

        …that’s all! 🙂

  2. Revelations 13-1..And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
    This is the SEA THAT WILL BE NO MORE..

  3. JESUS SAID I SPEAK IN PARABLES AND ONLY IN PARABLES TO THE WORLD…bUT I SHOW THE TRUTH OF THESE PARABLES TO MY OWN..

    New heaven, new earth and no more sea is not what people think…
    IT actually means the new heavens and earth absent of satan and his gang that come out of the sea.. hnce no more sea

  4. The sea begone is the sea someone jumps into after a divorce carrying his shame as a large mill-stone hung on his neck ;-<

  5. I am not one well versed in Bible interpretation, but the paragraph in Revelations, shortly before 21.1 quoted above – Revelations 20.13 says, “And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their words.” My own sense is the “sea” referred to in Revelations may or may not be referring to the oceasn or large bodies of water. However, the recent Japan quake did make the earth just a wee bit smaller and sped up our day by some millisecond, (according to the scientists.) Interesting contemplation, about the sea.

  6. PS: So sorry. I slightly misquoted 2-.13, “. . . and they were judged every man according to their works.” Interesting slip. 🙂

  7. hi guys

  8. Hello Marianne and all,

    If I may interject (and you know I must,lol!). I strongly believe that what is being spoken of here is not what some have assumed and that being that the new earth is a renovation of our present heaven and earth. For regarding the new heaven and new earth God’s word says:

    “He who was seated on the throne said, ‘I am making everything new.’ Then he says, ‘Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.’ ” (Rev.21:5)

    The word used “New” translated from “Kainos” is defined by Strong’s as the following:

    1) new
    a) as respects form
    1) recently made, fresh, recent, unused, unworn
    b) as respects substance
    1) of a new kind, unprecedented, novel, uncommon, unheard of

    Based on the definition of the word “New” and the context of Rev.21, it appears that what is being spoken of is a brand spanking new heaven and earth, that is, something from nothing. I believe that the sea that is being spoken of are the literal oceans and that because, within the context it is also mentioned that there will be neither sun nor moon as well (Rev.21:23-26, 22:5) and therefore, I don’t believe that there would be a mixing of literal and symbolic meanings. In other words, since the heaven, earth, seas, sun and moon are all mentioned, then we should take them at their literal meanings.

    Another thing to consider is that, there is also said to be a “New Jerusalem,” which we know is brand new because it comes down out of heaven from God (Rev.21:2) and is therefore not a renovation of the current Jerusalem. Personally, I don’t believe that it would be in God’s character to renovate the old and call it new, but as he says, he will make everything new. It’s a new beginning! It wouldn’t make sense for God to use the old and call it new. The old order of things has passed away (Rev.21:4).

    Furthermore, the description of this present heaven and earth are described in the following manner:

    “Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them.” (Rev.20:11)

    In the verse above, it would show that at the time of the great white throne judgment, which is at the close of the millennial period, that this present heaven and earth flee from God’s presence and there will be no place for them, which would also infer that God does away with them and replaces them a brand new heaven and earth.

    For a full description of the New heaven, earth and New Jerusalem, read Revelation chapters 21 and 22.

    I hope that this sheds some more light on the subject.

    Yours in Christ

    • Hey Don!

      Yeah, I agree with you…for the “most” part! lol However, I do believe it does have a “two-fold” meaning in ALL it’s parts. I’ll try to make it “short!”

      Jerusalem…the “center” of religious beliefs or “Christianity” (for lack of a better word or meaning)

      Earth…a “physical” place, after all, we “receive new bodies” and yet, not “like” the one we inhabit today

      NO seas…this term is used to symbolize the many different “beliefs” which have been present throughout time and “races” of people…I “believe” we shall ALL be “ONE” with God in Heaven…spiritually and physically

      NO “sun” or “moon”…hmmmm! This one is kinda’ “tough?” But then again, Scripture does give us the answer, as it says, “Heaven is ALL Light with No Darkness! Perhaps a “place” where there exists NO “gender” lines??? and a “place” where it is always “light”…obviously, it is difficult to explain a “place” without any “common” reference point to the “place” we currently “inhabit!”…right?

      In reference to ALL the above, let me ask this question, “How would you describe the “environment” in which we live…to an “unborn” child on the “verge” of “birth”???

      “BOTTOM-LINE”, you “could” only tell them to have, “FAITH!”

      (just my “thoughts”!)

    • Hi Don,

      I would have to agree totally with how it is that you have chosen to explain this.
      In the Greek there are numerous words that could have been utilized to describe and be translated into English as “new”. Yet there meaning would not express, “being born from nothing as in a “new” creation”.

      Excellent post in my opinion.

      Be Blessed.

      • Hey Alienated!

        Thank you for saying so Alienated and I knew that you would be agreement because you also study the words and their uses, as well as the context in which the Scriptures are spoken. It is just good exegetical study to consider both the context and the meaning of the words being used as well as how they are used elsewhere in other Scripture. I did look up some of the verses where the word “Kainos” translate “New” and how it is used, for example:

        New wine being pouted into new wine skins.
        A New creatation in Christ.
        This is My blood of the New testiment
        A new commandment I give to you.
        I saw the New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven.

        And as I said, the context also bares out that what is written should be taken in a literal context, as there is no indication in the Scriptures to seek out a symbolic meaning. Plan and simple, God is creating a new heaven, a new earth and a New Jerusalem. In fact, at that time, he says that the old order of things has passed away, no more death or mourning or crying or pain (Rev.21:4)

        Yours in Christ

        • Hi Don,

          The reason that I always refer to either Hebrew or Greek definitions to English words in scripture, is because I think that it is simply imperative to do so.
          English itself is an incredibly complex language, (ask any E.S.L. student). You can pick out most any word in it, and utilize a thesaurus to find another word that has virtually the same meaning. So one can express something in a variety of different ways depending upon the depth of their vocabulary.

          However in interpreting scripture, if one is to only utilize their preconceived definition for any given English word, they are now limited in being able to receive a correct understanding.

          For example, in Hebrew there are 16 separate words that can be translated as the word “love” or that within their definitions can express differing aspects of the word love.
          In Greek there are at least 39.
          Each one when utilized on their own, express the unique aspects within their definitions which clearly define the context being expressed.

          In English I can say, I “love” God.
          However, within the limitations of the English language itself, I also have to utilize the same word to express my extreme fondness, by saying that, I “love” Pizza too. Which clearly isn’t quite the same. lol.

          With the advent of the computer and available information on-line, I don’t believe that any serious student of the Bible, has any excuse for not utilizing these resources to further their study.

          Be Blessed

  9. I can’t say for sure what God has planned for the new millennium but I can tell you one thing, human life (as well as most other life) could no exist without the oceans. Or the moon or sun for that matter. Our ecosystems are so finely tuned that even slight climate changes can throw the planet off-kilter. God made the earth to evolve in such a way to let human life flourish and it has been fine until we started to wreck it. I seriously doubt he is going to make such a devastating change that most species on the planet will die off almost immediately and humans will be forced to survive by adapting to a whole different set of living conditions.
    And to address a few of your theories:
    1: The earth would be half the size it is now.
    No way. Unless God were to steam shovel half the matter on the planet out into space, the earth can not change it’s size. If it did, the gravity would change and we would lose most of out atmosphere. Forget this idea,
    2: The ocean floors will rise to create more land mass.
    No way. The water has to go somewhere. If you were to steam-shovel all the earths dirt into the oceans to try to fill them up, you would end up with a 100% water-planet. Oops. That won’t work. Maybe we could get more dirt from the moon… But we would still have to put all that water somewhere.
    3; A lake planet.
    Sorry, no way again. Too much water, not enough dirt. (See #2) Also, without the world‘s ocean currents the climate changes would be so drastic that life as we know it would no longer be sustainable.

    Somehow it just doesn’t sound like the millennial paradise we are expecting.
    So I’m sure the answer is in either symbolism or semantics/translation. I know for example that in prophecy the term “mountain” can refer to a kingdom or government, so the term “the mountains fled away” can mean the governments were disbanded.

    We also must remember that this was all seen in some sort of vision, so we shouldn’t take it to literally. Many prophets never understood their own prophecy – it was not meant for them to understand. Most of the book of Daniel could not have been interpreted until after it had happened. It was not designed to be a prediction, only confirmation that it came from God. Now, we in the end times can read the prophecy and realize that it is true, and so we can expect that the rest of it will also come true.
    Unfortunately, most people today don’t see the fulfilled prophecy. Instead they prefer to believe it is all yet to come.
    So much prophecy, so little time left.

    • So what is your take on the fulfilled prophecy? (I agree, so little time.) Thanks🙂

      • Hi Lisa,
        Well there is a lot to cover, but basically, there are many people (including Marianne) who don’t believe that the 4th beast of Daniel has arisen yet. History clearly proves it to be the Roman empire, yet many believe it will be Islamic based on a few choice verses pulled out of context.
        And in the Book of Revelation, there are four kings described – the first two in Revelation 13 are called beasts, just as in Daniel. Many people believe these are yet to come, but history shows them to be the Holy Roman Empire (followed Rome) and the Vatican empire (followed the collapse of the Holy Roman Empire).
        Then John describes two more Kings -the 7th and the 8th (who is of the 7th).
        Well, the 7th was just recently ratified – a brand new “kingdom” – the revived Roman empire – the European Union. There is only one kingdom left – that will be the revived Holy Roman Empire – a confederation of the European Union and the Vatican. The 6th and 7th kinks will unite to form the 8th, which will only last a short time in an unholy union with the devil.
        The Vatican contains the whore church who rides the beast (Vatican) and is led by the false prophet (the next pope). It represents Babylon (paganism) in modern churches and it will all be destroyed when Christ returns to marry His true church.
        So other than the 7 seals et. al, and the arrival of the false prophet and his deal with the European Union, there isn’t much more that need to happen.
        I find all this quite reassuring, compared to all the crap that must still happen according to most modern preachers and evangelists. Of course, if all that crap does happen, I will notice it and take heed. But if it doesn’t, there will be an awful lot of people who are really going to be caught off guard, waiting for something that ain’t gonna happen.
        We will see I guess…

    • Hi James,

      Long time no see, so-to-speak. If I may, in regards to all that you said regarding us needing the moon, sun, earth’s orbit, sea life, etc, we must remember that, it is God the creator who will be doing all of these things and he is not restricted to the laws of physics, in fact, he made the laws of physics and therefore he can change them to fit his needs or make a whole new set of laws. He can make everything work just the way he wants it to work, after all, is it not written that all things are possible with God? He just speaks and it happens. We ought to go by the old adage, If the literal sense makes good sense, then don’t seek any other sense.

      I don’t have a problem with God creating a brand new earth with no sun, moon or oceans, simply because nothing is impossible with God and therefore, we should not restrict God to our mortal way of thinking. Also, in what you say in that, since the word “Mountains” has been used symbolically to represent governments and therefore, this could represent governments being disbanded. The problem with this is that, there would be no human governments to disband and that because they will have been dismantled at the beginning of the millennial kingdom when the Lord returns to the earth where he will set up his kingdom, which will not be left to another people as described in Daniel 2:44.

      The other thing to consider is that, there is nothing mentioned about mountains fleeing away in regards to the new earth here in chapter 21. I believe that you are overlapping the events that take place prior to the beginning of the millennium with those that take place at the end. At that last bowl judgment, which is just prior to the start of the millennium, the mountains and the islands fleeing away are a result of that great earthquake at the 7th bowl judgment. It also mentions that the cities of the nations collapse and that due also to the earthquake and therefore, the mountains, islands and cities that are being spoken of must be taken literally and not symbolically.

      Regarding what you said below:

      “I seriously doubt he is going to make such a devastating change that most species on the planet will die off almost immediately and humans will be forced to survive by adapting to a whole different set of living conditions.”

      Regarding this God says, “I am making everything new.” What is so difficult about believing that God can make things work under these new condiitions or any conditions for that matter? God could make us breath outer space if he wanted to! You would either be saying that God must work under the laws of physics and that he is restricted to them or that God can do anything he wants and make it work. Another thing to remember is that, anyone who will ultimately enter into eternal life are no longer mortals, but we become like the angels in heaven as the Lord described.

      We need to remember not to put God in our little box of mortal thinking. It is also written that, the intelligence of man is foolishness with God and therefore, our understanding of science is nothing to him nor is he restricted to it.

      To recap, we should take him at his word in that, there will be a new heaven, a new earth and a new Jersalem just as he promised.

      • Don,

        Again in my opinion, an excellent explanation.
        I think that we are inclined as human beings to be simply self absorbed in our train of thought. That everything has to do with us, as being the primary focus.

        Where the reality is, that everything has to do with God, and we are merely just invited to participate within His future plans through our faith in His Son.

        I personally believe that after this age is over, that God will create something beyond our intellectual comprehension.

        Something that will be brand new, and a realm void of any sin whatsoever.

        18 For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

        19 For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God.

        20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope;

        21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

        22 For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. Romans 8:18-22.

        God will create a realm without corruption, and we are being prepared and invited to share and participate in that.
        That is one glorious invitation.

        Just my thoughts.
        Be Blessed

      • Hi Don,
        While I agree it is possible for God to do anything He feels like, I don’t think he will be doing anything too drastic, at least thru the millennium. After all, there will be billions of tribulation survivors who will have to live and breed thru the 1000 years, and those resurrected Christians who will be priests and teachers during that time will be working with those people. Apparently life will go on, so I’m not expecting big changes. Of course, if God had a sense of humor we might all be living in a pineapple under the sea, so you can go ahead and prepare for anything you want, really.
        As for me, I’m not counting on huge changes, especially to the laws of nature. I don’t think He would change them any more than he would His commandments.

        • Hi James,

          Just to clarify, I never said that the changes with the new heaven, earth and New Jerusalem were going to take place during the millennium, but that they take place at the end. As far as what to believe, we must look to Scripture for the answers and the word of God says that he will be making all things new, which includes a new heaven, earth and New Jerusalem. To deny that is simply to deny Scripture.

          * Church period
          * (Ibid) resurrection and catching away
          * He makes a covenant with many for one seven
          * Christ returns at the end of the seven
          * Millennial kingdom
          * Satan cast into the lake of fire
          * New heaven, new earth, new Jerusalem
          * Eternity ………………………..

          • Actually, here is a more thorough chronological list:

            * Church period
            * (Ibid) resurrection and catching away
            * Covenant made with many for one seven
            * Abomination set up in middle of seven
            * Christ returns at the end of the seven
            * Beginning of Millennial kingdom
            * End of Millennial kingdom
            * Satan released from the Abyss
            * Nations decieved and destroyed
            * Satan cast into the lake of fire
            * Heaven and earth flee from God’s presence
            * Those in Hades are resurrected out
            * Great white throne judgment takes place
            * New heaven, new earth, new Jerusalem
            * Eternity ………………………

        • Hi,
          I agree with you …. almost totally, except for the part where you say, “if God had a sense of humor”. God has been my ‘Favorite’ comedian, for some years now. I would set a wager(if I was a betting woman) that when we are not hurting God with our foolishness, He laughs in goo-gobs of chuckles.

          You have to admit our behavior and attitude is quite smuggish and uppity. How can the pottery talk to the Creator and tell the Creator the plans it has for life’s functions during its short existence here on earth, and not expect for the Creator to roll over with laughter? Have you ever heard: Do you want to make God laugh? Tell Him your plans?

          Laughter … and … pity———

          His poor, puny created ones, has just so much sass. Please, don’t let us forget all the ‘class’ we have. Tiny(as ants), little loud mouths, is who we are. We are not spectacular in and of ourselves. Now, that’s worth a laugh, thinking we are ‘All That’. However, we are ‘Spectacular’ to Him. HALLELUJAH!!! Can I get an Amen?

          When we set out to create an item, we also know the use that item will generate, right? The same is true with Our Abba. His initial intentions and plans for our life before/after human creation still exist for us at this very moment in time. Quite literally.

          Oh yes, my Abba has a sense of humor.

          A sense of humor that is as Great, Glorious, and Magnificent as He is. Please, don’t get it twisted readers, we ARE talking about ‘The Great I AM’.

          Everyone please have a Very Blessed Day. I love you my Brothers and Sisters.

          In God We Trust

  10. Heaven is described in Revelations, various floors are of differnt stones and the streets are of Gold.

    I read a story one time where a science major calculated all of the data from Gods’ blue prints and the new Heaven can not be where we are as the floors alone can’t be supported by the current universe and keep it spinning.

    When the new body is is given to us we will more than likely also have many different characteristic as Heavenly body saints.

    I would imagine that you can fly or think you have a desire to be some where and you are automatically transported.

    God is not limited, some of what man is and who he is has to do with our inability as human beings, we are a very inferior being compared to God and say his host of Angels.

    To me to know about Heaven completely today before our going is like spoiling the trip. To me I never wanted to know the sex of my children before they came and I could hold them.

    The way God speaks it is obvious that it is beyond our dreams. Don’t you think?

    • Hello again Pattie,

      If I may jump in here. In your post above you are siting the calculations of science major, which is based on man’s knowledge. As I stated before, it is important that we do not attempt to limit God’s ability by restricting him to the laws of physics and math, etc. God is far beyond our concept and so it is, for a lack of a better word, rediculous to try and restrict him and his power to fit our weak, human perceptions of him.

      In regards to our resurrected and changed bodies, yes, they will have different characteristics. Some are mentioned in the veres below:

      “So it will be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable; it is raised imperishable; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.” (1 Cor.15:42-44)

      In the verse above, this current body is perisable, that is, it ages, dies and then decays, where when the resurrection takes place and we are changed, that body will no longer age, die or decay for at that time it will become immortal and eternal. It also states that this current body was sown in dishonor, meaning that we were born with this sinful nature, but when we are raised and changed, it will be in a glorified body, no more sinful nature. Then it states that this current body is sown in weakness, meaning that it is restricted to our physical and mental abilities, but when the resurrection and catching away takes place, we will be raised “In power,” meaning that our new bodies will have greater characteristics and ablilities. What those will be, we do not yet know, but I am sure that it will be amazing! Regarding the resurrection, Jesus was asked a question about marriage in the resurrection by the Sadducees, (who by the way didn’t believe in the resurrection)and he told them the following:

      “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven.”

      So the verse above gives us a little more insite to our state of being in those upgraded bodies, for as Jesus said, we will be like the angels in heaven. Now there are different levels of angels, that is, different classes or ranks. So, it may be that what we do here will determine our abilities and strengths there, who knows? Since there are ranks and classes among angels, it is plausible that this could be the case with the resurrected bodies as well. I am just thinking out loud here, nothing set in stone.

      Now regarding what you said:

      “To me to know about Heaven completely today before our going is like spoiling the trip.”

      Even though we can read about the resurrection and being changed in the twinkling of an eye, though we can read about a new earth with no oceans, sun or moon and even though we can read about a New Jerusalem made of pure gold with twelve foundations each one of a different precious gem and twelve gates made of a single pearl, I don’t think that we can truly comprehend what we are reading about until we are actually there experiencing it. So, I wouldn’t worry about spoiling the trip, lol!

      The reality of being caught up in the air alone boggles my mind. One minute you’re taking shower and the next second you are hovering in mid-air with every other Christian that ever lived (hopefully with clothes on) and the Lord will be there. If it wasn’t enough to be standing in mid-air looking down upon the earth, then on top of that, to be led away to heaven where we will see unimaginable things! We will see those four Seraphs that are mentioned by Isaiah, Ezekiel and John who have four faces each, multiple wings and eyes covering their entire bodies, not to mention the rest of the angels and of course, without saying, God and all of his heaven.

      In short, I believe that we will all be in, well, I don’t know if I can convey what we will be experiencing at that moment. Maybe there is no word for what we will be feeling. Like I said, I would be in awe just standing in mid-air looking down upon the earth, not to mention the feelings that we will have being instantly changed with those new, heavenly characteristics. And I must say, Amen and praise and glory and honor be to God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ!

    • hi Pattie

      When God created this world it was perfect. Man messed it up. When God creates the next world, it will be equally perfect, and I know we will all love it.

  11. Hi All,

    Paul says, “But as it is written: “Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.” 1 Corinthians 2:9.

    Which is derived from, Isaiah 64:4a, (For since the beginning of the world Men have not heard nor perceived by the ear, Nor has the eye seen) and 65:17 (“For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth; And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.)

    The way that I see things unfolding, is that all of what this Universe has experienced over time, is merely the beginning of what God has planned. Being Sovereign, He knew when He created satan that he would fall. He created before the foundation of the world those that would choose His Son,(Which was already written in the script of the play, in Genesis 3:15.) and would also become His children.

    To me, I believe that all of this, is simply to prepare those invited to participate in whatever is next in order to His plans. And that eternity is more than we can ever comprehend. We haven’t even concluded Act 1 yet, in a play that will last forever, and ever.

    Be Blessed

    • Hi Alienated and all,

      You know what I think of from time to time? This whole earth episode in comparison to eternity is just a moment in time and in eternity. Since God has no beginning and no end, what has been going on prior to this? Since angels have a beginning, there had to be a point in eternity when they were created, that is to say, a starting point. Were they all created at once or in groups? How old are they? What other episodes have taken place prior to this earth episode? I know that eternity is different from time, but if I could employ it, what was going on a trillion years ago? It boggles the mind! This is all rhetorical of course.

      • hi Don!

        Yeah! I agree! Someone once told me that “time” is for “our” benefit and that it does not “exist” in “Heaven”

        As for the “Angels”…in Scripture, does it not say that the Angels are “envious” of us as “we” were made in His (God’s) image?

        The “way” I think of “myself” is:

        I am NOW; as I have always BEEN; and shall always BE; a “spiritual being” (for lack of a better word)!

        If there “were” episodes, as you say, prior to this…then this IS the “final” episode! For the Scriptures say, “…the soul comes from God/Heaven and returns there…” This is the “final” one as “we” have been given “freedom of choice”…to follow Jesus…or NOT! However, to NOT follow Jesus, comes with the “ultimate consequence!”…to “perish forever more” in Hells fire!

        Which is to say, this time the “soul perishes” and does NOT return to God! While “those” that DO “follow Jesus”…shall live forever!!!

        However, like you said, “…this is ALL rhetorical!”

        • Hi Bob,

          Just to clarify, I was not speaking of different episodes with us personally. The episode that I was speaking of is, what has been going on from the beginning our time, that is, the whole event of the earth and that it is just a scratch in eternity. So in speaking of other episodes, I meant other events that have taken place that didn’t envolve mankind or the earth, other projects of God that have taken place eons and eons ago. What other projects of God has their been throughout eternity. This is what I was thinking out loud.

          • Hey Don! Look further down for my “reply” to your last post here as I hit a wrong key and it was listed as a “New” post! – bob

  12. Hi all,
    The natural law is just the law runs in the nature. All God’s wonderful and marvelous creation. Why should God violate what He has done which is the best? Fat chance and slim chance, or no fat chance for Him to do that. That Heaven and earth had fled away (in Revelation 20:11) and other expressions are not about physical and astronomical objects. It’s used in figurative sense. Yes, you may read it literally. Then have to define what ‘heaven’ is. And as a story told, it would be good one for kindergartners ;-<
    The sea begone is the people with turmoil.

    • Hi Ounbbl,

      In that are you saying that all that is written about our glorified bodies, should also only be taken “figuratively”?

      In my opinion you are restricting God’s abilities to that of your own personal cognitive limitations.
      The laws of physics are applicable for here and now on Earth as we know it. Do you honestly believe that they are also applicable in heaven?
      And if not, why should they be carried forward as such in a new Universe?

      Be Blessed

  13. Don

    Your word are very well put and convey much better than I did the feelings that I have. Gods children all think alike.

    Marianne

    Everything God did and does is perfect, but I am reminded of the wedding ceremony where Jesus Mother ask him to turn the water into wine. The last was the best! So I know what God has prepared for his bride is far greater then what we have here, not that I have not enjoyed the journey.

    Anywhere a saint is even in horror and torment they are at peace, right. There the Apostles were and God opened wide the prison doors and the jailer was so afraid. But they did not leave and the jailer received Jesus Christ and his salvation.

    But I would be liar to say that I don’t have a desire to go home. The goodness of his plans and his promises hold my mind together. He leads me beside the still water, anoints my head with oil, restores my soul, makes me to lie down in green pastures and his rod and staff comfort me, praise God his Holy Ghost in fills me, he makes a table for me and mine in the presents of the enemy, he makes my cup to run over and he has his goodness and mercy to chase me down continually all the days of my life putting my name in the Lambs book of Life as I dwell in the house of the Lord forever. In the name of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ how does it get any better.

    Anyone reading this please read the Inifitada blog about Israel and a call to prayer

    Be blessed in the name of Jesus Christ, as God is not delayed as many think. Nor can he come without the lawless one being revealed and his promises coming to past for these end times

  14. Marianne
    Please make an announcement for those who have been busy and are not with us at this time.

    Trouble is continuing to brew in Israel; we are told it is worse.
    There is a new calling that 375000 have joined to wipe Israel off the face of the map in recent past days.

    They are requesting 1 million to become martyrs to make a place for the new Palestine, which will liberate the land from the sea to the river by wiping Israel off the face of the Land. (It is my understanding from a ministry out of Israel via email)

    I received another email from a Rabbi out of Israel, it was a group email and it was in Hebrew. I thought how odd, his writings said I write this in replacement of my Torah teaching as (something to the effect that) at this time I am painting names on the tanks?

    “So Praying for Israel having been ask by God to mount the wall for her stand and to keep watch for her and her children is defending our family. People who do not know her or claim her are excluding themselves from the family of God. Please join in keeping watch over her. There maker and keeper is our Father and he loves us even though we were not first.”

    The word says in: Isaiah 28:6
    He will be spirit of justice to him who sits in judgment, a source of strength to those who turn back the battle at the gate.
    Reading all of Zechariah 2 this is verse 7-9 by its self:
    Come, O Zion! Escape, you who live in the Daughter of Babylon!”
    8) For this is what the Lord Almighty says: “After he has honored me and has sent me against the nations that have plundered you-for whoever touches you touches the apple of his eye-9) I will surely raise my hand against them so that their slaves will plunder them. Then you will know that the Lord Almighty has sent me.

    With out a doubt God could easily divide the land according to the word at anytime of those he is speaking of. I would not want to be Gog and Magog and the other parts. The land of the North Russia is going to be taken down but is it possible another could be divided at the same time. Who knows but God in all certainty, as some locations in the Bible and who they are have been questioned.

    Prayer is the only thing that will save and spare us from the anger of God against those who make his children live in constant fear.

    The Almighty has made it clear that we are not to temp him.
    Also as you know I am about 30 miles outside of St. Louis Missouri. Forty 40 miles outside of St. Louis at 3:00am June 7th 2011(there about) an earthquake occurred. No one has the answer why, other then to say it was a fissure in the crust. No mention of the New Madrid Fault line or FEMA preparations.

    Also out of Liberty Texas about 30 children’s’ bones were found in a grave in a rural area. My guess is it is a place where those who have been stealing children live or lived. Pray for the parents who find their children that they may stand and that the Lord give the strength to the police force also to find the murders and bring them to a swift justice in accordance with Gods’ word.

    Regarding Israel praying or reading the word in all of Psalms chapter 83 and Numbers 23:23 and Luke 22:39-46 pray that we none fall into temptation of any kind in these last days as the attacks on Gods’ prayer warriors is great.

    Be blessed, I will advice as I receive more. I had hoped that the rebellion would be stilled for the months leading up to Sept. but the thinking of murders is not the same as those who belong to Our God, they accept not Jesus Christ as we all know.

    • hi Pattie

      There is certainly a lot to pray about now. Tomorrow is Shavuot / Pentecost. I plan to stay home and stay in prayer for all these things. May God protect Israel, and all the innocent who trust in Him.

    • The day moon god worshipers can defend a supply line is the day Muhammad will ride a winged horse to heaven.

      It will look like all those children Iran sent towards Iraq to destroy the land mines with keys to heaven around their neck back in the 80’s.

  15. Hi Don!

    No clarification necessary…I followed your “thinking”…perhaps it is “my” comment that needs clarification??? lol

    AS “I” think about what you and I have been “pondering”…and re-reading “our” comments…something came to mind (oh! oh!…here i go again!)…as you said, “…other projects of God…”, don’t the Scriptures give us a little hint in that respect? Where it says, “…the battle between good & evil…” that has been “…going on in the Heavens since the beginning…” (paraphrased, of course) and that this time, it is the “final battle!”

    just a “thought!”

  16. Yes, tomorrow is Shavuot.

    And though many within the Messianic following consider the “catching away” to be fulfilled on Rosh Hashanah, (The feast of Trumpets, or Yom Teru’ah) Shavuot itself is rather interesting.

    For those that perhaps took the time to read my composition that I posted on the “rapture” page regarding the Ten Virgins parable of Matthew 25:1-13, you may recall that in doing my research, I located and included a wonderful foreshadowing of that parable, in the story of the marriage of Boaz to Ruth.

    What is interesting, is that it is Jewish tradition for the book of Ruth to be read on Shavuot, and that the following occurrences also took place on Shavuot as well.

    – God appeared to Moses on the third day. Exodus 19:11.
    – (He will raise us up on the third day. Hosea 6:1-3.)

    – God came down in the clouds. Exodus 19:16.
    – (He is returning in the clouds. Acts 1:9-11.)

    – God’s voice was a trumpet. Exodus 19:16.
    – (The trumpet of God will sound. 1 Thessalonians 4:16.)

    – God answered Moses by a voice. Exodus 19:19.
    – (The voice of the archangel. 1 Thessalonians 4:16.)

    – God came down in a fire. Exodus 19:18.
    – (Yeshua returns in a fire. 1 Thessalonians 1:7-10.)

    – God descended from heaven. Exodus 19:20.
    – (Yeshua will descend from heaven. 1 Thessalonians 4:17.)

    – God called Moses up. Exodus 19:20.
    – (Believers will go up. 1 Thessalonians 4:17.)

    Something to ponder over perhaps?
    Just don’t anybody call me Harold. lol.

    Be Blessed.

    • I “like” pondering! Nice work…again!

      The more you (anyone) take the time to understand Scripture, the more you become aware of that, which is considered the “Old Testament”; actually points to the events in the “New Testament”…at which point, it ALL becomes, “One Testament!”
      🙂

      • Hi Bob,

        That is definitley true Bob. One couldn’t exist without the other.
        The Berean’s had nothing but the Tanakh to refer to, to verify the Gospel.
        Acts 17:11.

        Be Blessed.

        Oh, did you catch my response to you on the “rapture” page?
        It was where you had made the comment about Yeshua saying, “My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?

        • Hi “alienated!”

          yeah! I’ve read your response, but haven’t had a chance to follow-up on much of anything as I’ve been busy “attempting” to find a “short” in the wiring harness of my ’97 chevy 1/2 ton in which I just dropped a new engine into. It’s become a “nightmare!” lol

          oh well! as soon as i get it “fixed”…something else will “break!” (Murphy’s Law…copyright, 2011) 🙂

          • Hi Bob,

            Well don’t forget to check out Psalm 22 regarding that..

            And good luck in finding that short. You will figure it out .

            Be Blessed

  17. Marianne

    I have moments these days where I feel overwhelmed. One minute fighting the enemy and the next worrying about those who are unsaved. Then as now I take a deep breath and say it isn’t in myself that I do anything but it is in his protecting arms.

    We go to the Dr. tomorrow morning to meet with a surgeon about Peters surgery. He had inside stitches and some dissolved and didn’t keep together and the flesh flap that fell open on the inside looks black.

    The enemy is a liar and the Lord loves me and my husband. The Lord I serve keeps me in his perfect will and he goes before me in all things and I shall suffer nothing because the one who keeps trying to destroy me with gouging out chunks of my skin in my sleep,cutting me with blades or knive, and sticking me with pins has gotten no where. The Father said don’t fear who can destroy your body but he who can destroy
    both soul and body.

    What he tries to grow on my skin, or fat on my body, God takes away, he steals my hair in my sleep and God puts it back, what he tries to sew in my personality of anger god won’t permit it. Things that use to bother me God has given me peace to over come it. Jesus Christ paid the price he was the only perfect anything. You would think that the enemy gets bored trying to stop Gods children. God restores what ever it is that the enemy takes or does. I have so much to praise God for that there isn’t enough time to express it nor the space to contain it .

    Many people don’t know how to reach God or to pray to him but I came from a family that past salvation as the testaments of legacy from God to his children to theirs, which is constantly sewing back into the Lord.

    You can not make God a liar or his word of no affect. The word, the two edge sword and the garment of praise will cut the head off the snake all day long. When it is over with the all of the fallen angels may have been slayed at my house and drug out so to speak by the Lord and his Angels. But I guess that is the way it is met to be these days, and for certain it is my God and I who will be left standing.

    The Lord said I am an over comer with my testimony and that I am more then a conquer through him.

    Be blessed Marianne. I remember you in my prayers. Hey when you talk to Lyndsey tell her I saw her name somewhere on the site, glad to see she is back from where ever. Tell I hope all is well. I have been so busy I haven’t really had the time to devote to the quite required to write appropriately. My Husband lost so much blood that he isn’t back up to speed on his energy, but God knows about it and I know he has already sent the answer for his healing.

    • Hi Pattie!

      Yeah Pattie! Both you and your husband are “over-comers”, that much is very evident. AND as you said, “…God knows…and…has already sent the answer for his heeling.”

      “May God Bless you and your husband with a speedy and full recovery, in Jesus’ name, I Pray…Amen!”

      sincerely,
      bob wise

    • dear Pattie

      WE are in agreement with you – for your health and your husbands. It seems darkest before the light, but the light always comes.

  18. Marianne

    Thank you for standing with me. I just got back from the Drs. He said it was nothing just needed a little treatment at home. But he told me now that his legs are getting
    no circulation and he needs surgery to clear plaque and put in stints.

    He is smokes he is trying to quit. Someone told me they don’t believe it is wrong to drink or to smoke that God doesn’t care. Do you agree with this?

    I believe the body is the temple of God and we should take care of it. My Husband it trying to overcome the filthy habit but it has been along time. But as in all things nothing is impossible with God and if it is a sin he is able to make him overcome.

    I see smoking and drinking as the world and since we were told we are in the world but not of it, should we do it?

    What is up with this new sign in? I put my info and then at the bottom it puts http://gravatar.com/pattiefarm and a write over words on top of it?
    Am I suppose to Log in some how, do I have a pass code?
    Sorry I am not understanding, forgive me, help!!

    • dear Pattie

      I think we all have bad habits. Example: I was drinking too much coffee. god is not worried about that. Just our souls.

      The sign in is something WordPress is doing. It happens to me too, and it is my site. Just write your comment and then click “post”. I think that is for people who do not want to enter their email and website information over and over to make comments.

  19. Marianne

    As always thank you for your response.

    I surprised by this scripture as I was raised that it was wrong to drink or smoke or anything that world did as a worldly devise.

    1 Corinthians in 6:12 NIV
    “Everything is permissible for me”–but not everything is beneficial. “Everything is permissible for me”–but I will not be mastered by anything.

    KJV
    All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

    So it is not beneficial for him but it won’t keep him out of heaven. I wonder why people preach what isn’t in the word? or maybe it is that it is an offense to a brother or a sister and therefore should be avoided plus with consideration of our health and knowing today. But I am so glad to know it won’t lead to hell.

    The new gismo hast to have benefit if you can figure it out?

    Be blessed.

  20. Hey Bob

    Always good to hear a word from you. Thank you for your good thoughts and prayers.

    Yes we are overcomers, God brought him through today and the Dr. said the wound was not an issue. He taught me what to do to heal it from the inside out.

    He then told me to get ready for round 3 of surgery. He couldn’t feel the pulse in Peters’
    legs but I am going to continue to pray. God loves us and we are promised by his stripes we are healed. Gods’ word is true and we are believer. I plan on praying for God to operate on whatever it is. It is easier.

    Praise God that God is good all of the time. He is never late always on time.

    Thank you again, be blessed I will remember you in my prayers.

  21. Lots of scripture and possible applications/interpretations concerning the new heaven and earth…holy city New Jerusalem…Eden restored….city of God. But I have a simplistic view that assumes God will speak and all will be created anew. And since water is necessary for life only in the physical realm…I’m assuming none is needed in the the garden of God. He is the water of Life and all that abide in him will never thirst. I’ve always puzzled slightly over Genesis 1:2 which mentions water from the get go…so to speak. …..’.And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.’ Interesting that the only mentions present were darkness, Spirit of God, and water. Always been curious, too, about… 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. 8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

    Hmmm. Lots of scientific info in that one. Lot’s…lot’s of spiritual wisdom hidden there.

    • hi internet elias

      I agree. Wouldn’t it be great to go back in a time machine to Genesis, and see what was going on?

    • Hello Elias,

      Good to meet you. I agree with you completely regarding the new heaven and earth that God will speak and it will be , as you said, created anew. He says that there will be no oceans, but it could be that there may be lakes, that is, fresh water. However, we do know from Revelation 22:1 that in the New Jerusalem there will be the River of the Water of Life that will flow down the middle of the street in the great city.

      Now, regarding what you mentioned about there being a firmament and the waters that were below and above it, I offer some information to consider. First of all, the word of God says:

      “So God made the firmament and separated the water under the firmament from the water above it. God called the firmament sky.” (Gen.1:7-8)

      So before God began the creation process the earth was completely covered with water and he created a division between water that was on the earth from water that was above the earth and in between these two bodies of water was the firmament, that is, the sky. Now, my own belief is that when it speaks about the water that was above, that it was not referring to rain or moisture which accumulates in the clouds as we see today, but that there was actual water in orbit around the earth with the sky below it and water beneath the sky covering the earth.

      Now, regarding the third day, God gathered all the water that was below the sky, that is, on the earth into one place so that land would appear. Keeping the above in mind, when God flooded the earth during the time of Noah, Scripture says:

      “All the springs of the deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened.”

      So, when God flooded the earth it wasn’t just rain that caused the earth to flood, but it was caused from a combination of the waters that burst forth from beneath the earth and from the floodgates of the heavens being opened. I personally believe that the water from the floodgates was that water that was mentioned as being above the sky, which was surrounding the earth. Now, I stated all of the above to say the following: Prior to that water that was above the sky, that is, in earth’s orbit, the life span of mankind was anywhere from 777 years old (Lamech) to 969 years old (Methusela). That being said, it is interesting to note that once that water that was orbiting the earth was used in conjunction with the flood, so that that water was no longer above the sky, that the life span of mankind dropped drastically. It appears that the water that surrounded the earth may have somehow retarded the aging process. In fact, immediately after the flood, the age of the very next person mentioned, which is Noah’s son Shem, only lived to be 600 years old ,with the person after him whose name was Arphaxad, only lives to be 438 years old. From there, the life span drops all the way down to 180 years old, which was how long Isaac lived to be. So, as I said, once that water was gone that was surrounding the earth, there was a very noticeable drop in the life span of those who were here immediately after the flood and I believe that it may have had something to do with that water that was no longer surrounding the earth.

      This of course is just my own speculation and is not intended to be taken as being set in stone, so-to-speak. I have an Excel spread sheet showing the lineage starting from Adam all the way to Jacob and Esau and everyone in between, including everyones age, as well as when the flood took place. If anyone is interested in a copy just let me know.

  22. …just a thought…but after all the seals and bowls are poured out …there will not be much left of animals, the earth, or mankind….so it stands to reason that God will have to creat a new earth…NO?

    • hi Sue

      It is a sad thought that animals are punished for what man has done. God will have to start over, just as he did after the flood.

      • Hi Sue, Marianne and all,

        Yes, it is sad that most of the animals will be killed, as well as most of the inhabitants of the earth, and this because they being apart of the creation, they are also included. For regarding this the word of God says:

        “For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.”

        However, during the millennium, the Lord will return nature back to the way it was prior to the flood. Here are some of the characteristics of the millennial kingdom:

        “The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and yearling together; and a little child will lead them. The cow will feed with the bear, their yound will lie down together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox. The infant will play near the hole of the cobra, and the young child put his hand into the viper’s nest. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain, for the earth will be full of the knowlede of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.” (Isaiah 11:6-9)

        During the millennial kindgom, the life-span of mankind will go back to the way it was prior to the flood as can be seen from the following verses:

        “Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; he who dies a a hundred will be thought to be a mere youth; he who fails to reach a hundred will be cnsidered accursed.
        (Isaiah 65:20)

        Basically, the idea is that, there will be peace throughout the earth during the millennial kingdom, so that there will be no ferocity between prey and preditory animals during this time. I don’t know if there will be animals on the new earth after the millennial kingdom and that because there is just no information regarding this subject. I do know that there are horses in heaven though and that because the bride is seen riding them down from heaven following after the Lord who is also riding a white horse. (Rev.19:6-9,11-14)

        Yours in Christ

        • Not to be silly, but I do really hope that in some form or another, the dog that I had in my youth is there. Seriously, after all of the years that have gone by, I would love to be able to “hug” her again.

  23. Hi all,

    Speaking above regarding Genealogies, below I have posted an in depth article that addresses Biblical Hebrew Genealogy and telescoping.
    It is a very interesting and informative read.

    http://www.reasons.org/genesis-genealogies

    Be Blessed

  24. ” It was to be called an “ark’, which means a place of safety.

    Is it possible that the “water” was not H2O but some other form of energy (or stuff) which was separated during creation and flooded during Noah’s time and that the Ark was a place of refuge from it?

  25. Here is a link where they say congress took a secret vote yesterday June 10th-2011
    for an endless WWIII.

    I thought this was a lie until I looked in so many places. I was shocked. Is there a real news reporting group?

    http://www.topix.com/forum/city/austin-in/TRMO018Q33CND12V0

    • hi Pattie

      I do not see how congress or the president can afford to do this, since there is no money. But that has not stopped them so far.

  26. Marianne

    Everything that is going on is a shock to me at this time. But I guess it is just end time.

    I would say we are safe to say that wickedness is a foot but the thrown of God knows all things. Nothing escapes God.

    It is like the birth certificate how do you do it knowing you might be impeached or thrown out? It is as if the nation of people is being laughed and some think they above the law. But then if you are not a citizen how can you impeach or convict of anything?

    I guess if you don’t know the Lord or even believe in the Lord you are hopeless. My
    Daddy use to say a man who has nothing to loose is dangerous. Drowning men will
    take down anything and anyone, stay away from their water.

    Surely as the Lord has told us he has his eye on the sparrow and his word also says he will draw them to their end. We have to stay in prayer for all of the innocent, in Jesus Christ mighty name.

  27. Marianne

    I wanted to get back to you with more research earlier today but I have been sick with sinus issues.

    My understanding is this bill call HR1540 (around page 20) gives our President approval to start world war III. If I understand correctly it also give him approval without end. It includes factions as examples; ie people like the taliban and some others and toward the end of the descriptions it mentions and anyone who might be considered to be dangerous?

    It is pretty bizzare, the ACLU is working on it and is included in these links. People
    should make themselves aware of this situation.

    I have great concerns about this authority to someone who hates who?

    http://blog.alexanderhiggins.com/2011/05/15/congress-vote-declaration-world-war-3-endless-war-borders-clear-enemies-22785/

    These types of things makes you wonder if we won’t be taken out. As Gods’ children we need to be praying every day about the leadership of this nation and the evil things that God would not want us to do as a Nation or a people.

  28. Marianne I have learned that the earth was more land than water before the flood with one super-continent&one ocean which was situated in where the Pacific Ocean is now&how the Pacific is 1/3 the area of the earth. Also there was less than half the volume of water as now. This water was released during&after the flood. This origional ocean was fresh water, the salt water came from deep inside below the crust 10-20 miles under according to Barry Setterfield. He claims that there is a massive amount of water under the earth’s crust in porous granite rock

  29. The Earth is full of molten lava, so even if the land came together, it wd still have a core of lava inside it.

    The sea is stood on by some servants of God. Maybe they have risen above it. How? By faith. The sea is like liquid glass with fire in it. Logic is said to be clear thinking and emotions are said to be heated. Maybe faith is above thought n feeling.

    Maybe in the end, only the faithful exist.

  30. You actually believe that Revelation 21:1 is actually speaking about a literal sea? God Himself has foretold in the book of Revelation what the sea is and what the sea represents.

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