Is the "Beast" Rome?

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Today, there are several differing opinions on whether the first beast of Revelation is Rome, or a Middle Eastern empire, such as Greece or Turkey.

This is to present the “Roman beast” for consideration.

Author: James Giordano

Lighthouse Publications: lighthousep@earthlink.net

Daniel and History

First of all we must realize that almost everything in the book of Revelation is based on, or refers to, the Old Testament. So if we find a correlation between the two we must refer to the Old Testament and make sure our interpretation does not contradict it.

When it comes to the beasts of Rev. 13 we must look at the beasts of Daniel. That will be the starting point, and we should see if John is referring to Daniel and continuing his prophecy.

Actually we all agree that both are prophesying the end time events of the “last week” of Daniel or the 7 year tribulation period, so they should agree on almost everything.

And speaking of the “last week” we must also agree that both Daniel and John use the formula of 1 prophetic day = 1 actual year for at least some prophetic events. Actually, Daniel uses it for most events but if Daniel uses it then John must also use it for the same event.

Now, for the four beasts of Daniel I’m sure we all agree that they are kingdoms (he calls them kings) and that the first three are Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece. We are certain of them since in Dan. 2 he calls them by name. The fourth kingdom is just referred to generically as a “beast.”

Now in Daniel 2 we read about Daniel telling king Nebuchadnezzar of the future kingdoms that would replace Babylon by conquest.

He described how each new kingdom would take over the previous one in a successive story.

When he speaks of the fourth kingdom we must assume that it is the one that will replace Greece at some time in the future.

He leaves no clue that there will be a 900-year gap before the fourth kingdom arrives and we must also assume that it will defeat the Greco-Macedonian empire. If not, then why include them in the story?

He did not refer to Rome by name because it did not exist when he wrote the book. But we know from history that Rome conquered Greece and took over the holy land.

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Beasts of Daniel Ch.7:

Dan 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it [was] diverse from all the beasts that [were] before it; and it had ten horns.

Dan 7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn [were] eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

He repeats this vision in chapter 19:

Dan 7:19 Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth [were of] iron, and his nails [of] brass; [which] devoured, brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet;

Dan 7:20 And of the ten horns that [were] in his head, and [of] the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even [of] that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spoke very great things, whose look [was] more stout than his fellows. I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom [are] ten kings [that] shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

Dan 7:25 And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

Now let’s look at history and see if Daniel was correct. He says he sees Rome with ten horns or kings. Does history back him up?

Well, near the end of the Roman Empire there were in fact ten kingdoms comprising most of Europe.

But what of the little horn?

Well, it is different from the other countries and it speaks great blasphemies.

It also persecutes the saints and plucks up three kings by the roots. It also thinks to change laws and times. This is an important and often overlooked verse.

This new power thinks it can change God’s laws – the ten commandments.

God is not concerned with civil laws, and the verse says he “thinks” he can change the laws and times. If this is a real king he could easily enact new laws, so these must be divine laws, not common laws.

The 3 and 1/2 years

Now Dan 7:25 also says that the saints will be given to them for “a time and times and the dividing of time.” This comes to 3-1/2 prophetic years.

But we must convert days into years to get the actual time. 3-1/2 years is 1260 days so the little horn was to last 1260 years.

The Holy Roman Empire lasted from 538 until 1898 when Napoleon, the last Holy Roman Emperor, took the pope captive to Paris where he died in jail.

The Holy Roman Empire was dead and there were no popes for three years.

Do the math – 538 to 1898 = 1260 years.

Are all of these coincidences?

Or maybe Daniel was wrong?

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Let’s look at history again, and see what happened after the fall of Rome.

In 538, the last Roman emperor, Justinian, put his uncle, the leader of the besieged Roman army, on the throne of the pope and gave him both the military and spiritual control of the western empire. He then left for Constantinople forever. This was the beginning of the Holy Roman Empire.

Now, in 325 the Vatican had convened the Council of Nicaea and on the agenda was the so-called heresy of the Aryan nations – the Ostrogoths, Vandals, and the Heruli.

They believed that Jesus was merely a creation of the Father and no better than an angel.

They were labeled as heretics but nothing could be done until the Vatican was give military power by Justinian, after which they launched a campaign to destroy them.

By 355 they had accomplished this and the three Aryan nations were plucked up by the roots, never to rise again.

This refers to:

Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom [are] ten kings [that] shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

As for persecuting the saints, the Aryan genocide was only the beginning. The crusades and the inquisition followed.

As for changing laws and times, the church wasted no time in removing the second commandment due to all the statues and other images the church inherited from converted Roman temples like the Pantheon.

The Romans (under Emperor Constantine) forced the church to adopt the Roman’s day of sun-worshipping on Sunday so the pope was forced to change the time of the Sabbath (4th commandment) from Saturday to Sunday.

Those who didn’t go along were martyred as heretics to the tune of as many as 100 million saints.

This refers to:

Dan 7:20 And of the ten horns that [were] in his head, and [of] the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even [of] that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spoke very great things, whose look [was] more stout than his fellows. I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

Revelation continues where Daniel left off

From this we can establish a precedence. Daniel is telling the story of empires that have control over God’s people. We will see that John is referring to this story and continuing it where Daniel left off.

And we will see that each new kingdom replaces or comes out of the previous one.

There is a tendency of some people to want the story to jump around the globe, referring to many different countries as far from the source as the United States. This is not necessary and only over-complicates the interpretation.

John, in writing Revelation, must use symbolism to protect himself from the retribution of his Roman guards, so although he knows the name of the empire he cannot use it in his writings for fear that his captors will think he is trying to defame Rome, and might then destroy his writings.

If he wanted to refer to any other kingdom such as Greece or Persia or Turkey he could have called them by name, so why didn’t he?

Now for the 8 kings mentioned by John, we can assume that they are also related to the kingdoms of Daniel starting with Babylon, not Egypt as some people think.

John gives us a clue here because in Rev. 12:2 he says:

And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as [the feet] of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Here John refers to the beasts or kingdoms of Daniel, starting with the most recent (Greece-the leopard) and going back to the lion of Babylon.

He can’t mention Rome by name so he refers to it simply as a beast – the same beast of Daniel that describes Rome, not by name but simply as a beast.

So Daniel’s last beast is directly related to John’s first beast, so they must both be Rome.

But does Revelation match the prophecy of Daniel, and if so how does the story continue?

Let’s start at the beginning of Rev 13:

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as [the feet] of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

So we see the same beast with ten horns but only 7 heads.

The Aryans are already gone. And the beast is speaking great blasphemies. So he is now describing the Holy Roman Empire.

And just so we know it’s Rome he mentions the previous empires that preceded it according to Daniel.

He states them in reverse order because he is looking into the past where Daniel was looking into the future.

Now we can already see that God does not like this beast or kingdom. (Remember, Daniel said this would be a little kingdom and different from the rest. The Vatican is indeed very small but has religious power throughout the world)

Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Now remember that the beast is Rome with the eleventh head (the Vatican), minus the 3 Aryans.

We can assume that the head (king) that is wounded is the Vatican – that little horn with eyes and speaking great things.

The 5th beast (false prophet) is part of 4th beast.

It is not the antichrist receiving a head wound as it is so often described.

So here we see that the kingdom is wounded but the wound is healed.

The papacy was ended but it came back stronger than ever when the Vatican was given autonomy of state in 1929.

It then became a nation and holds a seat at the U.N. No other church holds that power.

Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty two months.

OK, this beast was given power for 42 months.

That is 3-1/2 prophetic years/1260 actual years – exactly the same as Daniel. There can be no doubt that these are the same kingdoms.

According to John, this beast is an affront to God. The church changed God’s laws and adopted over 50 pagan practices from the Romans. Practices that date back to ancient Babylon and Baal worship.

It makes sense that when Jesus returns and takes over the churches he will destroy all idols, statues, crucifixes, paintings etc. and will banish all paganism that has crept into the church. He will restore the true Sabbath as well.

In other words, he will destroy Babylon within the church, as we shall see later.

Now what about the second beast, the one from the earth?

Well, we have some clues as to what it is:

Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spoke as a dragon.

Rev 13:12 And he exercises all the power of the first beast before him, and causes the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

So we know it is a religious power which pretends to be like the lamb of God, but it speaks blasphemously, just like the first beast. This beast, whose wound was healed, has all the power of the first beast.

This sounds a lot like the Vatican, which came back strong as ever after the Holy Roman Empire broke up. It certainly doesn’t sound like a country such as America, Russia or Turkey as none of them act like the Holy Roman Empire or the Vatican. They are not a church.

And it is this power that enforces the “mark of the beast” so the “mark” must be religious in nature.

Something to do with God’s laws.

God does not care about financial matters and the church is not likely to require its members to purchase things or make their tithes etc using an implanted microchip as many believe.

I believe that the mark will be related to one of the changed laws Daniel mentioned and that the church will force its members to break one of the commandments.

As for the number of the beast – 666, we know it is the number of a man. This man will be the leader of the Vatican.

Now let’s look at paganism in God’s church.

There are many stories in the Old Testament where God warns his people about false gods that have infiltrated the religion of God’s people.

A famous example is in 1Kings where the prophet Elijah challenged the followers of Baal to a cosmic cook-off and of course the score was Jehovah 1, Baal zero and the priests of Baal were killed.

This cleansing of paganism from God’s church is a forerunner to what will happen in Revelation. God has no reason to destroy some other religion or any particular country (unless they are attacking Israel perhaps).

The woman of Rev. 17 is not Islam or the U.S. as many think, it is the Church itself.

If the Vatican is the 2nd beast, then the man in

question must be the pope.

Since there have been many popes, the name must be his title, which never changes.

The official title of the pope is “Vicar of the son of God” which in Latin is VICARIVS FILII DEI This title contains the following Roman numerals: V,I,C,V,I,L,I,I,D,I which equals 5+1+100+5+1+50+1+1+500+i which adds up to 666.

This would make the Vatican the beast and the pope the false prophet.

The pope may be considered the “corporate image” of the Vatican beast as he represents it and it is his image we think of when the Vatican is mentioned.

The Holy Roman Empire as a TYPE of end-time events:

If we look at the structure of the Holy Roman Empire we see a group of autonomous countries with their own kings or leaders, all under the control of the Holy Roman Emperor – a political figure who rules over the empire.

Then you have the Pope who is in charge of all religious matters and acts in the place of God.

In modern Catholic theology the earth is already in the millennial reign of Christ with the Pope taking his place.

Now let’s consider the popular theory that there will be a charismatic political figure that will come to power in a “New World Order” – a soon-to-be-created one world government where all the nations of the world regardless of religious or political orientations will come together in friendship and give their loyalty to their new dictator. (But he’s a NICE dictator).

He will have a great religious partner who will lead the world into a one-world-religion.

These two figures are the Anti-Christ and the False Prophet and they speak great blasphemies.

You can see that the Holy Roman Empire was a TYPE of the end time scenario. You could say that the end-time scenario will be a revived Holy Roman Empire.

So the question is “How closely will the end times reflect the Holy Roman Empire?” Will it be a virtual copy of it or will it consist of totally different countries and a different religion? I suppose it all depends on how tricky John was trying to be in the prophecy.

The “woman” in Rev. 17 & the apostate beast/church of Rev. 13.

In addition to the two beasts of Rev. 13 we need to relate the woman of Rev. 12 and the woman of Rev. 17 to these beasts.

A woman in prophesy always represents a church, and the church in Rev.17 is in big trouble.

The church has the title “MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT MOTHER OF HARLOTS” which refers to paganism that has run rampant in it and its “harlots” which are daughter churches that have spun off from the original church of Rome but still retain elements of paganism in them.

This would include churches that use graven images or continue to break the Sabbath commandment.

Some people see the name “Babylon” and immediately think of the modern-day ruins of the city, and since the area is now occupied by Muslims, the church must be Islam.

So the question is “Is Babylon literal or symbolic?” Well there is a mostly overlooked clue that answers this question.

The term “MYSTERY BABYLON” actually refers to an ancient religion called the Babylon Mystery religion. It was started in ancient Babylon by Semiramis, the wife of Nimrod. It Includes Tammuz, a false savior that mocks Jesus Christ.

It is the predecessor of Baal worship and it was active in Rome at the time of the apostles. John would have been quite familiar with it. Once you realize this there can be no doubt that Babylon represents everything pagan that God hates within His church.

Are there clues that point to the Catholic Church as the whore of Babylon?

Well lets look at some verses:

Rev 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet colored beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns

Rev 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet color, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

So we see that the woman (church) sits on a beast with 7 heads and ten horns, so that’s the church of the Holy Roman Empire.

And the church (read priests and cardinals) are wearing purple and scarlet, and the woman is bedecked with gold and precious stones and a golden cup. These items are not used by Islam but are common in catholic mass.

And the later description in Rev 18 of the power and great wealth of the church can only be the Vatican. It is far richer than any country. It has no debt and its real estate holdings alone are worth more than most countries, not to mention the innumerable relics, cathedrals and library, plus the fact that they own the utilities in the city of Rome.

*** While some oil-producing Islamic countries have great wealth, the religion there does not share this wealth.

We also know that the woman sits on seven hills, and we all know that Rome is known as the city of seven hills.

It was known by that name in John’s time and it is not likely he knew of any other cities of his time with a similar nickname. This was as close to using the word “Rome” as he could get given his circumstances.

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So if the Church of Rome and its offshoots are the apostate church of Rev 17, then where is the true church?

Well we have to look to Rev 12 for the answer.

To paraphrase and condense it, we see a woman with a crown of 12 stars giving birth to a male child whom Satan hates and who was caught up to heaven and will rule from his throne with an iron rod.

Once again, a woman represents a church and unlike the whore of Rev 17, this woman is from heaven and clearly represents the 12 tribes of Israel.

She is giving birth to Jesus and at that point she becomes the Christian church or the church of the 12 apostles.

But the devil tries to kill her by getting his apostate church to persecute her. She flees to the wilderness to escape the beast church of the Holy Roman Empire. How do we know this? Because she is in hiding for a time:

Rev 12:6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days.

That’s right – 1260 prophetic days or 1260 actual years – exactly the duration of the Holy Roman Empire. And just to reiterate the time frame:

Rev 12:14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent. (That’s the same 3-1/2 prophetic years).

Now check out the last verse:

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

This is a telling verse because it indicates that the true church is a mere remnant of her seed and that they keep the commandments of God. If this means ALL the commandments, then the true church must be a small group of Christians that have no graven images in their church, and keep the true Sabbath – Saturday.

It is interesting that the number of modern Christians that keep the Sabbath is quite small, around 5% or less of all Christians.

These churches were considered heretics during the Holy Roman Empire and many groups such as the Wallensians (who fled to the mountains of Austria) were wiped out by orders of the pope, just like the Aryans.

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Summary:

From this study we can see that the 4th beast of Daniel is the first beast of Rev 13.

They both described the Holy Roman Empire although the first description by Daniel is of the original Roman Empire, that stomped out the previous kingdom of Greece.

The second beast comes right out of the first one so they are nearly identical. Perhaps this is why John sees it coming up from the earth rather than the sea as did all the other kingdoms. The Vatican took over the Holy Roman Empire peacefully rather than by conquest.

The second beast, therefore, is the whore church that will be destroyed when Jesus returns.

This beast is the 6th king(dom) of Revelation. This beast is the Vatican that exists today, it is not a future event.

John mentions 8 kings or kingdoms actually, but what are they?

Well the first four are those of Daniel:

1; Babylon (Fallen)

2: Medo-Persia (Fallen)

3: Greece (Fallen)

4: Rome (Fallen)

The last four of John are as follows:

5: The Holy Roman Empire (Fallen) <———— The first 5 have fallen.

6: The restored Vatican (Fallen, but revived – beast that was, is not and yet is)

7: The restored Roman Empire (European Union – Present)

8: The restored Holy Roman Empire (Future)

This will be a joining of the Vatican and the EU.

Note that as John says, the 8th will be of the 7th and will last just a short time.

Probably just the last half of the tribulation during which many will turn to God.

Note that there will not be a One-World-Order, or a new world-wide religion. Just a restoration of the old Holy Roman Empire exactly as it was in the past.

The beast is not a person (not the so-called Antichrist) as is supposed. The term Antichrist is never used by Daniel or John. The beast is the Vatican.

There will be a unified Christian church, however, as most protestant churches return to become part of the papacy.

This process started in year 2000 when 11 protestant denominations agreed in principle to rejoin the catholic mother church.

The process should be complete by the time the 8th kingdom is formed. This is the unification that most people interpret as a new-world order or a one-world religion. Sorry but it’s not going to be that spectacular.

Now that I have established the 8 kingdoms I need to discuss a much misunderstood passage from Rev. 17:

Rev 17:8 The beast that you saw was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

This beast is not the antichrist but the second beast (from the earth) John was just talking about – the Vatican. Remember, it was, then it was destroyed (was not) and yet is (was restored).

And for as the whore of Babylon, it will certainly go into perdition when Christ returns. Now that the know this we can look at other disputed verses:

Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, [and] the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

Now some people believe that John is describing seven kingdoms of his own time going all the way back to Egypt and Assyria, but these earlier kingdoms never controlled the holy land, and have nothing to do with the story John is telling.

Others believe they are literal kings and say they are Roman Caesars that preceded John and followed after him.

But they are dead and buried – what would they have to do with end time events?

No, the answer is simple.

When John is making that statement he is picking up the story where he left off. He had already talked about the first 6 kingdoms (Babylon thru the Vatican) and he was simply recapping these six.

The first five were fallen (at this point in the story, not from the reference point of his own time) and the 6th was the one with the deadly wound that healed, and he described this as: “was, is not and yet is.”

It is an awkward phrase that has confused many people. The Vatican that was “killed” by Napoleon in 1898 was restored in 1929 by Mussolini. After this recap he continues the prophecy with the next two kingdoms (7 & 8).

One key to Revelation is this idea of continuation. John picks up Daniel’s prophecy and continues it. He pauses, and when he comes back to it, everyone thinks it is a different story in a different time. And a different place as well. Hey, it’s all the same story.

So John is still referring to the kingdoms he just described, but now a new one, the seventh (the restored Roman empire) enters the picture.

Now, the EU treaty was only ratified on Jan. 1, 2010, so it will not be here for long (a short space). Now the clincher:

Rev 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goes into perdition.

Perfect! The 6th kingdom (the Vatican – the beast that was, is not and yet is) will be part of the 8th but it will not conquer or replace the 7th (EU), it will simply attach itself to it, giving the Vatican and the pope the political power to enact religious laws such as the mark of the beast (mandatory church attendance every SUNday for example).

So really the 8th beast is still the 7th, it just has a religious power added to it. Exactly like the original Holy Roman Empire.

And to reiterate, it says again the Vatican will go into perdition.

And I’m not the only one who believes this. The revered catholic saint, St. Malachy whose vision showed him all the future popes from his time until the second coming, predicted the destruction of the Vatican during the reign of the last pope – Peter II who will follow the current pope.

The same fate was also predicted by the famous seer Nostradamus and the prophecy of Our Lady of Fatima.

If the Catholic Church predicts its own doom then maybe we should take it seriously.

John was able to nail 2000 years of history, and while many people simply cannot bring themselves to believe it because it may affect them or their church, sticking your head in the sand and waiting for something that most likely will never happen will not help you make it through the tribulation and avoid the mark of the beast.

Rev 18:4 says: And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

God commands his people to come out of the beast church.

This means the church is Christian since his people would not be in any other religion such as Islam.

God is only concerned with his own people.

It’s all about us I’m afraid. We all need to get our act together and Revelation tells us what we must do. It’s a wake-up call for all of us and it is critical we understand it if we are to be ready for the tribulation.

I also wouldn’t count on an early rapture to take you out of harms way.

If it happens, and I don’t believe it will, it will only be the remnant of the seed of the true church. If you are not in that 5% or so then you may be as they say “left behind.”

Final Thoughts:

I hope you will open your mind in this matter and study the scripture without a predetermined agenda.

Try to find a mistake in my logic or scripture that completely contradicts it. There is a lot of symbolism in prophecy so it’s not an exact science, so try not to make too many assumptions especially ones that are vague and take the prophecy on a strange detour.

Simple and obvious should trump clever and convoluted. God doesn’t want to be tricky when it comes to prophesy. It may be hard to understand before it happens but it should be obvious after it occurs. It is a shame that so much has been accurately predicted and yet so few have realized it.

I guess it is simply a repeat of what happened when Jesus came the first time. Look carefully and recognize the truth. It is right in front of you.

God bless, everyone.


651 Responses to “Is the "Beast" Rome?”

  1. […] here for […]

  2. Revelation 12 This seven headed dragon is the same seven headed dragon of Revelation 13..

    Revelation 12-9…And the great dragon was cast out, that OLD SERPENT, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. .This seven headed dragon is none other than that OLD SERPENT of Genesis 3.His angels are the seven heads…
    ..
    Revelation 12-17 shows this seven headed dragon(Satan and his seven angels) goes to make war with the remnant of the woman’s seed …That war begins in Revelation 13..
    Revelation 12-17…And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    Revelations 13-1 was originally revelation 12-18…
    BLB Footnote for the KJV
    12:18) Some manuscripts delineate the first phrase of Rev 13:1 as Rev 12:18.

    Rev.. 13-1..And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

    These verses shows clearly that the beast of Rev 13 is Satan and his seven angels…and that he is the same entity as the OLD SERPENT in the garden of Eden..There is much much more about this..

  3. John shows us the first clue of the beast in REv 13-1.. He says he stands on the SAND OF THE SEA.. This is the SAND foundation of the broad way of Matt 7 that leads to hell…This SAND FOUNDATION goes back to Abraham-Ishmael… Ishmaels’ descendants are dubbed the SAND OF THE SEA SHORE by god…This is also the foundation that mohammed built Islam..Abraham-Ishmael-

    Rev 20-8.. says satan deceives and gathers the men numbered as the SAND OF THE SEA to battle Jesus..This battle is over who the real messiah is, who the real god is and which gospel is from god, not to mention the Christians who are behedaded… Rev 20-4..And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

  4. The seven heads of the beast are also in Rev 17-9…And here [is] the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. This wisdom would be the same wisdom that Eve ate in Gensis 3-6…The seven high places or mountains are where the baal gods are worshipped..Look up high places and/or mountains in the bible..The woman sits on these mountains or high places where baal is worshipped..

    Rev 17-10…And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, [and] the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space. I do not know who the five fallen kings are, but I think the sith king during John’s time was king herod…The seventh king is mohammed who continued a short white and then he was not… He promised to return in last hour.. He is then the eighth king.. and the verse says he is the eighth and is also the seventh and of the seven..He is the beast head that had a deadly wound and was revived..
    Rev 17-11..And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition. He is called the beast that was and is not.. but when he ascends aout of hell (apollyon) he is then called the beast that was, and is not and YET IS..
    I understand so little.. i am still learing daily..

    • Just to help you tweak your theory – Herod died in 18 AD, long before John wrote revelation in 95 AD. Also, the “Kings” are, as in daniel, not people but kingdoms.
      As for Mohammed promising to return in the last hour, in order for that to happen God would have to resurrect him (Satan can’t do it) and of course we would have to believe in the Koran. We Christians should never base our prophesy on the words of any book other than the bible. Mohammed was a fake and a liar. He’s not coming back, thank God, so he won’t be the eighth. Also, it is the 6th kingdom that receives the wound, not the 7th so in your logic it would be Herod that would be resurrected, not Mohammed.
      I think you will find it gets very complicated when you try to shift the prophesy away from Rome but it is good to try it, as I did, to see if it is a dead end or if it might fit perfectly. Eventually you should find the truth.
      Keep hunting and good luck.

      • Hi, I know your comments in “Heaven Awaits” were written long ago, but I had to respond. Hope you get this.

        You wrote:

        “I hope you will open your mind in this matter and study the scripture without a predetermined agenda.
        Try to find a mistake in my logic or scripture that completely contradicts it. There is a lot of symbolism in prophecy so it’s not an exact science, so try not to make too many assumptions especially ones that are vague and take the prophecy on a strange detour.
        Simple and obvious should trump clever and convoluted. God doesn’t want to be tricky when it comes to prophesy. It may be hard to understand before it happens but it should be obvious after it occurs. It is a shame that so much has been accurately predicted and yet so few have realized it.”

        I believe you have made mistakes in your logic AND scripture. I believe there is a MORE simple and obvious answer than your complicated theory.

        First, if you notice, the division in Daniel’s Image occurs during the third kingdom of Greece, not the fourth. ( belly AND thighs of bronze ). The fourth kingdom BEGINS already divided. Rome didn’t begin divided. It began as one kingdom. It was divided until centuries after its beginning. Therefore, logic tells us that Rome CANNOT be the fourth kingdom.
        Later in Daniel we are told more about this kingdom, when the horn on the shaggy goat is broken off and is replaced by four horns, TWO of which become prominent.
        Daniel’s further explanations tell us that these two kingdoms are the Seleucid and the Ptolemy Empires.

        Second, the ten toes of iron and clay are contemporary; they exist together. We are also told that the iron, the bronze, the clay, gold and silver are smashed by the Rock at the SAME time, TOGETHER. Therefore, these kingdoms ALL exist when the Messiah comes to set up His Eternal Kingdom.

        Now, let’s look at Revelation. The final Beast and his kingdom have the appearance of a leopard – it LOOKS like Greece. It also has a mouth of a lion ( Babylon ) and the feet of a bear ( Medo-Persia ). So this final kingdom is a composite of THREE previous kingdoms, not four. This tells us that the Image in Daniel IS the IMAGE of the Beast Kingdom. More than that, it is the BEAST himself, as a man. Nebuchadnezzar, the King of Babylon, is told that HE is the HEAD. Who is the King of Babylon? The Beast.
        Daniel 7 tells us that the lion was made to stand on his feet as a man, and a heart or mind of a man was given to it. In Revelation the Beast is a man.
        The bear has three ribs between its teeth and is told to devour much flesh. In Revelation the Beast subdues three of the ten horn and persecutes and kills many. The leopard is given power and authority. The Beast of Revelation is given great power and authority.

        In Daniel 3 we are told that Nebuchadnezzar, the King of Babylon, sets up an image of gold, and forces ALL to bow down and worship it. Those who don’t are burned in the fiery furnace. This Image is 60 cubits high and 6 cubits wide. In Revelation, the Beast, the King of Babylon, sets up an Image of himself ( gold = Babylon ) and forces ALL great and small, slave and free, to worship it. Those who don’t are burned in the fiery furnace of the Tribulation. The Beast has a number, 666. It is the number of man.
        In Daniel 4, Nebuchadnezzar is driven made because of pride, and made to live as a beast for 7 times. In Revelation the Beast is mad with pride for 7 times (years).

        So, what are the legs of iron and the ten toes of iron and clay? The legs of iron are the kingdoms of the Beast and the False Prophet. The ten toes are the Ten Horns that give their power to the Beast. They are ALL the final end time Kingdom. The Image of Daniel and the Beast of Revelation are one and the same.

        Why is Rome ignored? Because Rome exists primarily between the 69th and 70th week of Daniel 9, when prophetic time is suspended. It exists during the Church Age, when Israel is in exile.

  5. Has anyone given any thought to what CAINS WAY was and what his doctrines he believed consisted of..It has a lot to do with the book of revelations and to current and recent events…I will give you a clue… God said to Cain”””SIN lieth at the door”””
    SIN was the ancient moon god who claimed he was the door to heaven..much much more about this.. If I knew how to write a blog , I would, I am kinda computer illerate..

  6. Majority of people got fooled by so many commentators and prophecy game players.

    The plain fact is, the Book of Revelation was written not to address to people in modern times, about 2000 years coming after those who received this book in the time of worsening persecution on them, i.e. A.D. 30 to A.D. 70. Just read the book as it tells without any presupposition as it was told to the people at that time.

    Read the wonderful writing by Russel as well as Warren, both titled as _ The Parousia _ (with different subtitles), freely downloadable at http://www.preteristarchive.com/Books/1878_russell_parousia.html

    • I checked your link and I have studied the theory you mention here and I must reject it on the following ground (among many others).
      If Russel is right then the entire contents of the book of revelation occurred before it was written. If that were true then John could have written it without the help of Jesus as it was simply history. In that case why would Jesus give it to john as prophesy if it was simply history? It wouldn’t have been prophetic so why make such a fuss.
      If you’re right then the book of revelation is just a worthless history lesson, not even worthy of being placed in our holy bible. It should have been tossed out with 1st and 2nd Maccabees. Why should we even read it let alone try to understand it?
      And why did Jesus waste his time on such a worthless document? Maybe he was becoming senile or something.
      No one is looking forward to the coming Tribulation and so many prefer to believe it won’t happen, perhaps because it supposedly already has. That would be nice if it were true. No wait, that’s not true because it would mean we missed the second coming and the resurrection of our loved ones.
      So I’ll look forward to the seals, vials and trumpets because our savior will come soon afterwards to give us eternal life. So bring on the tribulation. I’ll be ready.
      I pray that you will be too.

  7. Good post! A few things lacking in depth, but generally good …
    Here is today’s news which may help your analogy …

    • Thanks Abigail. I wish I could have added more details but it was too long to begin with,. Maybe I need to write a book.

  8. I can understand the logic that since the Roman empire followed Greece, that beast 4 could be Rome. Many other empires followed Greece as well.

    But upon reading rev 13, the antichrist beast seems to be a mix of leopard (Greece), bear (medo persia), and lion (babylon).

    So how does this translate to Rome?

  9. Marianne,
    Well, I assume Daniel is talking about the conquering powers in each case. In other words, the story is continuous, like a novel. If he wanted to segue to a different time or place he, like any good author, would have made it clear that it was his intention to do so. Give the story to any history teacher and see what they think.
    If you continue this logic with John, you have no choice but to follow the logic of my interpretation. It never strays or jumps around based on a stray word or two that sidetracks so many people.
    Such is the case of the leopard, bear and lion. We all agree that these refer to the previous civilizations which were conquered and absorbed by the successive powers. Now here is where some stray. They believe that John is referring to the geographical location of these empires. As if the land itself had some control over the prophesy. The fact that one kingdom took over the land area of another is of no consequence. What is being referred to is the absorption of the culture and religious practices of the conquered nation. In other words, the ancient “Mystery Babylon” religion was absorbed by the Medes where it was incorporated into their religion. The process was repeated with the Greeks and again with the Romans. So pagan Rome inherited the paganism of Babylon (Lion), thru the bear and the leopard.
    Then the unthinkable happened. All of these pagan practices and holidays were absorbed by the early Christians, especially converted Romans. The catholic church freely admits it did this but justify it by saying that the changes were sanctified by the pope and the Vatican, which of course makes it perfectly acceptable.
    So if the Woman whore church is the Roman Catholic Church, then the whole point of the Daniel/John beast/kings story is leading up to why the Roman Catholic Church must be destroyed at the second coming. It is the history of paganism and how it infiltrated God’s church and how it will be destroyed. It sounds so simple – God is just correcting imperfections in his church before he returns. You didn’t think Jesus was going to return to Rome and put on the pope’s fish hat did you? And let us keep all those statues and idols in our cathedrals? And celebrate the birth of Jesus on a pagan holiday?
    Let’s face it, our religion is screwed up royally since the time of the apostles and it will have to undergo many changes when He returns. God sent us this warning for us so we can get our act together before he comes to rule. Lets not put it all onto another religion so we can feel all holy and perfect. We must humbly admit that we are all imperfect sinners and we have all made mistakes. The good news is that they will all be forgiven and corrected soon enough. Until then we must keep pursuing the truth, which is why were are all here on this site. We all thank you for it.

  10. Daniel saw 10 kings. John saw 8. Explain. thank you.

  11. The ten kings (horns) Daniel saw were the ten kingdoms that were left when Rome fell. These are the toes of the statue of Nebuchanezzar – part iron part clay as Rome disintegrated.
    Actually, the beasts were Kings (world empires) and the horns were the small countries left when the empire broke up. The use of the word kings is a bit confusing as heads, crowns, horns and beasts all really refer to some sort of a political power (empire, kingdom, country, Vatican etc.)
    Now the kings of John were like the beasts of Daniel – also empires, in fact the first four were Daniel’s four. John then describes the next four, for a total of eight. These are beast-kingdoms, not heads or horns).
    Remember that Daniel’s fourth beast grows a little horn which uproots three of the original ten (countries). The Vatican did that so it must be the little horn.
    Johns first beast has seven heads and ten horns – just like Daniel’s last beast. Gotta be the same story continued.
    Obviously, the Roman empire and the Holy Roman Empire are directly related, unlike the first 3 of Daniel which were conquered by outsiders. Daniel takes us to the beginning of Christianity and John picks it up from there. Daniel has already described the conquering Roman empire and gives us a hint of its breakup. John now sees the emergence of the new – Holy Roman Empire the beast that will destroy Christianity with its pagan practices. He warns us about it and tells us to get out of it before Christ returns and destroys it. This is the entire purpose of the book of revelation and Daniel as well. It is a warning to us just as Noah tried to warn his people about the flood and Jeremiah tried to warn the people of Israel that if they didn’t straighten up God would throw them to the Babylonians as slaves. Its the same warning now for Christians and unfortunately most of us will fail to heed it because we are off blaming someone else.

    Hope this answered your question.

  12. Hi James, good article.
    Iam with you that the “church” is full of babylonian abominations, .
    But one should differ between the Beast (the last world kingdom) and the harlot Babylon, who rides the beast, but will be “eaten by him”.
    In Jermeiah 31, Amos 5 etc. Israel is named by Yahweh as woman and virgin.
    The true church, the body of Christ is now spiritual Israel.
    Joseph/Ephraim is physical Israel (not Judah/Jews!)(Genesis 48).
    Thus, apostate spiritual Israel is the Harlot, the pagan babylonian catholic church.
    Apostate physical Israel are the Brit-ish (hebrew = “covenant man”), America (Manasseh) and great parts of Europe (the other tribes), whose leaders are all illuminated Freemasons, a babylonian faith in the lightbearer, Lucifer (research Albert Pike: Morals and Dogma). They control the Vatican, as also the babylonian financial fiat money/fractional reserve system.
    The pope will be the false prophet.
    They all make up the harlot. The AC will hate them and eat them because Satan hates Israel.

    Now what is the beast?
    Acc. to Rev. 13 “power will be given the beast over ALL kindreds, and tongues, and NATIONS.
    And ALL that dwell upon the earth shall worship him”.

    One cant deny it, it is a world government, on which the Illuminati/Masons and the Vatican are working since a long time.
    They have soon reached their goal. The EU President even said last month, that the world governance is already here.
    [Iam copying the following from the other blog:]
    The Antichrist is not islamic, but the masonic Christ, Maitreya. He already is promoted as THE Christ on CNN. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjwdFkapK1w
    .
    Now hold fast: The CLUB OF ROME released on 17 September 1973 one report, entitled Regionalized and Adaptive Model of the Global World System… The document reveals that the Club has divided the world into ten political/ economic regions, which it refers to as ‘kingdoms.’ (!!)
    “Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be DIVERSE from all kingdoms, and shall DEVOUR the whole earth [Luther bible: “all countries”], and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise..”
    Daniel 7
    This vision shows how the global governance of Rev.13 will be achieved. The Illuminati are creating 10 global economic regions, the first is already here, the EU. The next one will be NAFTA/North American Union.
    African Union, Asian Union are also far advanced (google please).

    The 10 superstates will give the AC the reign over the earth.
    This will happen in the name of “peace and security”.
    Whats accelerating this transforming?
    Global crisises, like the war on terror, global warming, global financial crisis, etc.
    We should expect new attacks under false flag, as it was 9/11 for example. Then, in the name of “peace and security” the patriot Acts and thus dictatorship and the NAU can come into effect.
    “Order out of Chaos” (Ordo ab chao)

    • Sylvan,
      I agree with much of what you say but I’m not sure the new world order will be anything more than the EU. I know there are many organizations trying to create one but I don’t think it will happen before the second coming.
      I still believe the 4th beast of Daniel 7 is the Roman empire and not a yet-to-come new world empire. Remember that John said it was fallen, along with the Holy Roman Empire. It can’t be fallen and still not be here yet.
      It is interesting that there are two main scenarios for the end times and both of them seem to be coming into being. I’m afraid that one of them may well be the work of Satan and he is going to fool almost everyone (The whole world will wonder after the beast).
      So I have to go with the least popular theory. I’m a racing fan so I tend to go with the odds and the odds are only a remnant of the true church will be right.
      Just because something is popular doesn’t mean it’s right.

      • James
        Rev. 13 says the AC will have power over everyone, every kindred, tongue and ALL NATIONS.
        The EU is not all nations! Its just one kingdom of ten.
        I can tell you the NWO is real, it is satans baby.

        I dont know how to explain the phrase “was, is not and yet is.”
        But i have a guess.. it could be that the angel means the following verse in regrads to John’s time.
        Read again:
        “The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit..”
        He “is not”, at the time of John – not at the time between 1898 and 1929.
        He, the eight king, seems to be someone who was before John and is currently in the bottomless pit.
        I think if we can find out who the seven kings of 17:10 are we would understand who the eight king is.
        .
        Dan.7 says that this government with power over eveyone on earth will be DIVERSE from everything before. And it will devour all earth/lands/countries and break them in pieces (this means no nationalities anymore like it is even today in the EU).
        How can this last world kingdom be like the previous Roman Empire?
        .
        “One of his heads is wounded and healed” – “The 7 heads are seven mountains”
        How does this add up for the revived roman empire?
        .
        I believe the Holy Roman Empire theory is way more popular and older than the ten-superstates-theory.
        I think it would be more wiser to say :
        “Only a remnant of the church will not fall away because they are obedient and filled with Gods spirit”
        If you are saved has not so much to do with correct prophecy interpretation.
        I dont claim to be fully correct, and i hope, if iam not, the Lord will show me the truth so that i can repent.
        Yhwh bless!
        .
        PS (regarding the great deception)
        ET DISCLOSURE IMMINENT? – LOOK AT THESE HEADLINES FROM THE PAST 24 – 48 HRS
        http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message974083/pg1

        • Sylvan,
          I think you are falling into the same word trap that many people do. Let me give you a couple of verses:
          Dan 2:39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.
          Dan 6:25 Then king Darius wrote unto all people, nations, and languages, that dwell in all the earth; Peace be multiplied unto you.

          It is obvious these did not truly mean the entire planet. Just the biblical world. In fact most of the time the “whole world” only means the world as known by the prophets themselves. Its just one more bit of prophecy we can’t take literally.
          And also try not to fall into the “identify the emperor” game when it comes to the “five are fallen” line. They are kingdoms not people, just as in Daniel’s account. Don’t expect some old King to be resurrected in the future. God won’t do it and Satan can’t.
          The beast that breaks the previous empire into pieces is ROME, the whole point of my thesis. It is Daniel’s fourth beast that follows and devours Greece.
          As for the wounded head and the 7 mountains, they are two different things. The wounded head is the “little horn” of Daniel. The 7 mountains are a reference to the “City of Seven Hills” which Rome was known as in the time of John. The two sevens are just a coincidence in this case.

          As I said, I agree that there is a NEW WORLD ORDER movement in the world, but just look at how long it took to get health care in this country (and its still not for sure), so how long would it take to ratify a constitutional amendment that would turn the reigns of US power to a foreign dictator? Are you voting for it?
          I didn’t think so. Americans are not that stupid and I don’t think many other countries are either.
          It is going to be a race between the NEW WORLD ORDER and the second coming and I think Jesus will win.

          • Sorry, but you have no idea what the NWO is..
            health care legislative not..
            .
            The angel told John: the beast that you saw, was, is not and shall come out of the abyss.
            SO, the beast WAS BEFORE JOHNS TIME. whats so hard to understand that????

            • Well, think about this, if John was brought into the future to see it, then the past would merely be anything that “happened” before the time frame that John was in when he was given the vision.
              And when He’s used the words “was” “is not” and “shall come” he is simply referring to the prophetic kingdom (beast) he was describing previously.
              Daniel did the same sort of thing, repeating his vision several times, referring to the same beast over and over.
              John is simply saying. Remember that beast that died and is no more? Well he is coming back and all the world will marvel at him.
              Sorry that the choice of words is a bit confusing, but if the beast is all prior to John, where is the history for it? No one can seem to identify this beast even after 2000 years of trying.
              As for the NEW WORLD ORDER, I believe there will be an attempt to create one, but it will not be the beast of revelation. That power will be a religious one. Remember the leader will be believed to be God and will claim to be Jesus. Who is your candidate for such a political leader?
              The pieces do not quite fit the puzzle.
              Close, but no cigar.

          • The “known world” at the time of the last kingdom, today, is indeed the whole earth!
            Right?

            • No, the known world was that known to the writer, at least in most cases.
              I’m afraid there is no way to prove either hypothesis, so we should not assume either one or use the assumption as the basis of our interpretation. If we do we risk total off-trackedness. (Yeah, I said it).
              Let me know about that pre-John beast kingdom though.

              • I wish you and all a joyful sabbath.
                Just a few thoughts:
                James, imagine an angel explains you a vision you had, and he says to you right NOW, the beast was and is not.
                So you would think that the beast was and is not. Easy.
                The beast is a person in this verse.
                The beast from the bible can be both, a kingdom or/and a person.
                So who is this beast person?
                He is the Antichrist:
                -He comes out of the bottomless pit! (He must be a evil one, who was bound there)
                -These verses describe that the beast the woman rides on in Revelation 17 is the antichrist of Revelation 13. This beast’s name is Apollyon:

                Rev 9:11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
                In the fifth trumpet, we see the “locusts” come out of the bottomless pit, with Apollyon being mentioned as the leader of these, but Apollyon is also the one who kills the two witnesses:

                Rev 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
                -As is thought about how it can be that the beast person/Antichrist was BEFORE JOHN, i thought it could maybe have similarity with the King of Tyre story, who obviously was possessed by Lucifer.
                Maybe there were in history seven kings who were possessed by him.
                Just some thougts.
                What for me is very convincing about the ten-superregions/world government-theory is that it is indeed planned by the Club of ROME/Illuminati, who want TEN KINGDOMS in their own speech.
                Also, DAniel 7 says it will be DIVERSE from everything before and crush the whole earth (nationalities).
                Surely the NWO is all about spiritual and religious power, the political power just happens if everyone worships the leader, who declares to be god. Some UN politician wrote in his book, that everyone has to worship Lucifer before entering the NWO.
                What is the pope doing? He tries to unite all religions in the ecumene (see Assisi eg).
                Doubt it not, through the supernatural powers and/or sci-fi technology the false christ, who comes for all man to be the christ, will “deceive the WHOLE EARTH” and convince everyone, “WHO IS NOT WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE”! This is the proof ladies and gentlemen.
                This INCLUDES EVEN MUSLIMS, Hindus, literally everyone on the face of the earth!
                Satan ever wanted world dominion.
                I recommend strongly besides spreading the gospel, fasting and praying to research the NWO! I could help you with some links or so.

                • Your explanation is a bit confusing. It sounds like the 4th beast of Daniel has not arrived yet the second beast of John has come and gone. These two are related and sequential and Johns must follow Daniels. And Daniel states that his beasts are kingdoms and even names the first three.
                  If the AC is going to come in as a great peace maker, why is he going to crush the whole world? Rome did that.
                  If the NWO will require Satan worship how will the AC make people believe that he is god?
                  And don’t forget that the beast will destroy three of the ten kingdoms. Why would the NWO do that and which three do you thing are going to have to go?
                  Some things fit but overall there are too many gaps and unanswered questions for me.

  13. James i forgot one thing bro,
    how can the future salesmen recognize if you are a sabbath-keeper or not?

    • They will find me at church on Saturday.

      • Lol.. everyone will have a personal salesman, who watches if you attend church on saturday..
        serious, the mark has to be physical, otherwise it is an impossible logistical task.

        • Talk about an impossible logistical task! Chipping maybe 10 or 12 Billion people and covering the entire planet in a wireless network to run them, all in a couple of tribulation years? Is that going to be a piece of cake? I can’t even get cell coverage in many buildings. What about the souvenir stand in Machu Picchu? What about Bin Laden’s cave? Wait, maybe we can finally catch him when he comes out to get the chip!
          Seriously, do you remember the Wallensians? They were Christian sabbath keepers and even though they tried hiding out in the remote mountains eventually the catholic church hunted them down and wiped them out. Just as the Holy Roman Empire will be revived, the plight of the Wallensians will be repeated. It can’t be too impossible if it has already happened.

          • 1. basically, the evil leaders have secret technology, you cant imagine now (eg even “invisibility” is already disclosed as working)
            2. we have about 6,8 bn people on the earth
            3. the plan is to get rid of 6 bn poeple
            4. the Illuminait plan speaks of closing “non-functioning gaps” , i.e. countries who resist the NWO and/or are to poor for fulfilling their plans.. Haiti is such a gap, btw… i believe HAARP is involved there..but hey, i have no evidence, just many hints
            5. with a vaccine for EXAMPLE the remaining people could be marked
            6. nearly every store on earth has electronic devices for paying cashless
            7. VISA chief speaks of cashless society in 2012

  14. Do not forget these guys.
    Here is an important series of 10 videos of which I am at random pasting #3

  15. Greetings,

    Hope you are well.

    Haiti will be the place where the NWO will start. It will be rebuilt in the fashions of the shadow government that lurks behind the thrones.

    I have a counter proposal to the NOW called the E.N.D. or Earth’s New Dynasty. The E.N.D. is coming.

    Love,

    John

  16. Marianne,

    Hi hope you are well.

    Go tell it on the mountain, “The E.N.D. is coming!!!”

    Love,

    John

  17. Look at all this activity.
    Maybe you are right John … the E.N.D. is coming!!

  18. Rev 12-9 shows who the beast is.. It is satan and his angels..The same ones that deceived the Adams…
    Rev. 12-9..And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
    The great dragon is called that OLD SERPENT…He is the old serpent of genesis 3.. It says he and his angels were cast out, but it shows only the dragon and his seven heads cast out.. This is because the seven heads are his angels..The seventh angel was the one that mohammed claimed visited him…He indwelled mohammed..
    The first verse of Revelation 13 was originally the last verse of Revelation 12…And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. Notice John stands on the SAND OF THE SEA…This reveeals the identity of the beast.. It is of Ishamel’s descendants.. who are as the SAND OF THE SEA SHORE.. Rev 20-8 also says satan deceives and gathers the men who are numbered as the SAND OF THE SEA to bettle Jesus…

    • You must be careful not to confuse dragons and beasts. Remember that as Daniel stated, the beasts he saw coming up out of the sea were kinks (or actually kingdoms). Now Satan can control a kingdom, or at least the religious aspects of it, but they are not the same thing. And the term “as the sand of the sea” simply refers to an uncountably large number. The fact that different authors used the same term does not mean they are related. That is a trap they many readers fall into. Be careful.
      Here is a little lesson from Daniel 7:

      Dan 7:3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
      This is the first mention of the beasts. Remember – the 4th one will have seven heads.
      Now:
      Dan 7:17 These great beasts, which are four, [are] four kings, [which] shall arise out of the earth.
      So now the four beasts are king(dom)s that arise out of the earth, not the sea.
      So the word beast was a metaphor for a kingdom and the sea was a metaphor for the earth.
      The point is that we can’t be too strict with word definitions in prophecy. All to often I have seen people pick up on a word or two and immediately fly with it to some other book of the bible and try to relate it with something else. Now I believe that Daniel’s and Johns stories are related and continuous and that is what I tried to express in my blog.I find it to be the simplest possible explanation with no time gaps or crazy unexplainable jumping around in time or location. As in most things, simpler is better. (KISS) Keep It Simple, Stupid. I used it to teach KISS in my photography classes, and telling a story with a camera is much like telling a bible story.
      I think God is using it here.

  19. Eh…Revelation still bugs me to no end.. Because I kept seeing two dragons in different colors.. One was red dragon.. I witnessed it came out from the land ( that place reminds me of someplace unique with a open cave that can be seen through to other side of rocky red or orange mountain ) and the other dragon I have witnessed was total in black and a huge size.. Its size is unbelivably huge enough to wrap around about three entire buildings and as tall as empire tower…it came out of the swirling water.. and attacking everyone in its path… I only remembered the small last thing before woke up was.. that I stepped forward into its path unafraid.. and to keep it distracted… so others can escape. And I do remember its breath and its roar in rage because it did not expected that my inner just came forth in bright white light dressed entirely different and thrusted pure silver blue sword at the black dragon from water.. and allowed it not to pass until others are out of its way.

    I do not know what it got to do with me at all so I ingore that part.. all I know that is it important NOT to ingore the message very clear is… the both dragons from land and water are already out and prowling, dears… that is all I can provide as warning.

    I hate to post honesty into this… I noticed most do not heed the warnings… no matter how much I have tried to warn others since time is running out… *sigh* I grew up with some gifts that I do not always talk nor share very much.. My gifts was and still is dreams of insight.. and warnings… God never got me wrong.. He gave me a special gift of instincts that I can follow with no problem spite of hearing loss…

    So, please… heed to anything I says that came from dreams because I have no knowledge of interpretation in this. Except only I sense the strongest urge to spread warnings as fast as possible to save others before too late.. Yes I worry for all..

    Old Serpent is the black one… and the red dragon looks like a smaller size but still huge… and second hand to the Old Serpent… and they are getting ready to open the portal to let out their uhm… how do I say it ?….fallen ones…demons who follows Old Serpent.. out to overtake most people who are not saved… to kill the ones who are saved.. hard to explain details.. I am never good at explaination nor am I good at trying to make people understand. *sigh* At least, I try my best.

    It is all puzzles.. I see in Revelation.. I see puzzles.. pieces… spread wide.. have to look at every angles.. every corners which has reveled… and what have not yet come… put what have came to pass piece of puzzles down and together… and and await for new puzzle that came to pass to add.. it will fall into clearer picture.. That is part reason why people is still trying to bicker or stumble on it over its meaning….

    Truth is.. it shouldn’t be… Anyway, I normally do not come forth unless I am needed or told to do so.. I often only read and listen. Bless you all and be safe.

    There is one more thing… Let’s go to ” Time, times and half ”

    One) USA won war between north and south
    two ) USA won war with Korean or something from Pearl Habor history
    Third) We have to watch for third… that will fail USA at the end.

    Why ? Notice something odd.. USA did not have wars on its ground.. only those times.. and will again coming up. That is pretty much I can see on both accounts..

    Just a thought to look into that part.

    Blessings to all.. try verifty whatever dreams means or anything I say needs to be checked with others … Otherwise, have a wonderful weekend 🙂

  20. We have found the beast! It’s the sun …

  21. Marianne ….

    Eh, I have seen red horse and pale horse last year.. big difference between 4 horses and 2 dragons… Let’s see.. red dragon I saw came out of the abyss of land… just before Obama won and became president… the black dragon I have seen so many times since child. It chased me.. when it was little as well as I was a child myself…. but now it is full blown grown and extremely powerful wave of hatred you can feel through your soul and vibes against your engery … Strange enough that it would eat and harm everyone in its path unless I have to step front to confront the black dragon to get through me first.. it didn’t.

    Let me lay this clear and loud… dragons are NOT famine nor war.. Those are indeed the very devil and its asisstance itself…
    Let everyone have an ear, let them hear the truth through Almighty God.. The abyss to release the demons out to prowl after everyone is near at the hand… Do not walk blind nor ingorance on the other side of world that does walk among us all with our veiled eyes… Let everyone have an ear to hear.. Let them hear the truth to let the veil to fall away and soon with Almighty God’s blessings and grants.. Amen ..

    • Tamara and Marianne,
      You both make me laugh … there is a big difference between 4 horses and 2 dragons … LOL
      Now I understand that perfectly! And there is a big difference between red and black! Why is it Marianne does not understand that?
      Dragons are not famine and war!
      Thanks for making me laugh, I really needed that.

  22. Hi, just a little correction for the sake of truth. You wrote:

    VICARVS FILII DEI

    but this gives 665. The right title is

    VICARIVS FILII DEI, what gives 666.

    Superp article!!
    Blessings!

  23. It could be that the bottomless pit is a place related to Planet X or one of his satellites.
    Ancient storys speak of the prison planet of Marduk/Nibiru/…, where the fallen are bound since the days of Noah.
    ALso REv. 9 gives a hint:
    1And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

    2And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

    3And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

    ==> The bottomless pit is material, when it can make smoke who darkens our air and sun!!

    There are other scriptures, who indicate this, but i cant find them at moment.

  24. I always thougth about the possibility the “great city ruling the world” being Washington D.C.
    District of COLUMBIA is full of babylonian masonic symbols. (Research it, it is very very interesting! Also, the statue of George Washington is in fact build after the figure of Baphomet)
    So is there a connection between Babylon and Columbia?
    First, one has to know that Assyria was the ancient source of all this babylonian culture.
    Now, i found this:
    Semiramis (semir’umis) [key], mythical Assyrian queen, noted for her beauty and wisdom. She was reputed to have conquered many lands and founded the city of Babylon. After a long and prosperous reign she vanished from earth in the shape of a dove and was thereafter worshiped as a deity, acquiring many of the characteristics of the goddess Ishtar [female Sungod, “MARY”!!]. The historical figure behind this legend is probably Sammuramat, who acted as regent of Assyria from 810 to 805 B.C.
    (from a froum – no source)
    A research on babynames reveals that Semiramis, Queen of Babylon means the same as Columbia… coincidence?

    Thats just think-food.

  25. I did a search on -beast was is not shall pit- and found this informations:

    http://endtimepilgrim.org/abyss.htm
    In Revelation 17:8 we read about
    “the beast that was, but is not”.
    (The thing was not in John’s time.)
    But apparently he had been seen in a time earlier.
    When was that? And what was that all about?
    A. THE BEAST THAT WAS.
    Here we have a personage who lived in a time era before John.
    And John, of course, was living in Roman times.
    Who was this “beast that was”?
    And when was he manifest in the history of God’s people?

    We could go to the history books and take a look. But instead let’s start with the holy scriptures. Let’s take a look at the Book of Daniel, chapter 11. The angel Gabriel, during the first year of the reign of Darius, in 538 B.C., is telling Daniel something extraordinary. The angel starts out by telling in incredibly accurate detail the future history of a coming Seleucid ruler.

    So did he finally turn up? Oh yes. He emerged into history in 168 B.C. This monstrous ruler was named Antiochus Epiphanes. Then as the narrative continues Gabriel is talking of another abominable beastly ruler, the end time Antichrist.
    [..Daniel 11…]
    This is remarkable. Remember, Daniel gets this prophecy in 538 B.C..
    Antiochus, the subject of this prophecy, was not seen in history until 168 B.C.
    This was 370 years later!

    From the scripture above it seems that there was a monstrous blaspheming ruler back in the days of the Greek Empire. This beast was alive on the earth and possessing a man back in the time of the Seleucid Greeks. He was named Antiochus Epiphanes. Here we have evidence that this demon spirit, a hideously evil spirit capable of possessing a man, entered into Antiochus, the Greek ruler, in 168 B.C., the time of the Maccabees. The demon turned the Seleucid ruler into an blaspheming antichrist or anti-messiah. This wicked demon caused him to commit acts of abomination.

    Do we have historical records of this? Oh yes.
    The history books of that time including the history of the Jews records this staggering history. This was a level of blasphemy against the God of Israel that had not been seen before. Nor has it been seen since. Antiochus Epiphanes was in a demonic rage. He entered the temple in Jerusalem, and committed heinous outrages against the God of Israel, His holy temple, and His holy people. He tore down the city walls. He slaughtered a great many of the Jews. Then, on Hannukah, the 24th of Cheshvan, 168 BC, Antiochus stopped the daily sacrifices. Then he offered a pig to Zeus on the altar of God.

    These were abominable acts. The Syrian Greek ruler desecrated the place of God’s Presence and defiled the place of His worship. All this was fortold and prophesied in 538 B.C.. Gabriel gave the prophecy to Daniel over 370 years before the fact!
    […]
    This is confirmation what i assumed about “the king of Tyre” thing.

  26. Hi James,
    Quote:
    “It sounds like the 4th beast of Daniel has not arrived yet the second beast of John has come and gone. These two are related and sequential and Johns must follow Daniels.”

    Can you explain, ithink i dont understand quite well what you measn. Sorry bro. Please with scripture.

    Qoute:
    “And Daniel states that his beasts are kingdoms and even names the first three.”
    I think i have made quite clear out of scripture that the last beast is a person, the AC. Thinking about that, how can it be both kingdom and personage? Because the political leaders of the beasts/great kingdoms are possessed by a personage, the antichristian spirit, an fallen angel, demon.

    Quote:
    “If the AC is going to come in as a great peace maker, why is he going to crush the whole world? Rome did that.”
    The false christ will make false “peace”, a false utopia if you will, for the first 3,5 years. Than he will break the covenant “in the midst of the week”.
    “The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces” in Dan.7 has a different meaning, not like many understand it:
    What have the first beasts in common? All of them conquered other nations, but the ruler let the conquered nations their national identity. But the last beast is “DIVERSE”, it will
    not regard the specific identity of the conquered nations.
    The two respected, established and accurate bible translations in german i use (Luther, Schlachter) translate “will devour all LANDS”.
    Just look at the EU! The constitutions of the member states are abolished and count NOTHING anymore!
    And again, i ask you to research for yourself the plans of the Illuminati to create “Ten Kingdoms”, eg NAFTA/SPP/NAU. I really believe the Nort american continent is one major “terrorist” attack away from Martial Law and the establishment of the NAU.
    Quote:
    “If the NWO will require Satan worship how will the AC make people believe that he is god?”
    The NWO will require some sort of Lucifer sowrship, not Satan w.
    In the opinion of the, by the lighbearer, enlightened ones (=illuminati) they are different entities. And the blind led and deceived by them, i.e. the people of the world, will believe the lie. Remember 2Thes.2- God will send a great delusion that they will believe the lies! Think in huge terms!
    Quote:
    “And don’t forget that the beast will destroy three of the ten kingdoms. Why would the NWO do that and which three do you thing are going to have to go?”
    I dont know yet. I willl think about it and ask the Lord about wisdom.
    Please, begin to think outside of this Rome-box.

    • hi Silvan

      How do you think the Selucid empire relates to the NWO?

      • Hi Marianne,
        (from the same link)

        Gabriel told Daniel that the Seleucid Greek ruler would enter the temple and,

        “1. he will defile the sanctuary fortress;
        2. then they shall take away the daily sacrifices,
        3. and place there the abomination of desolation”.

        What do we notice?
        These three things describe the acts of Antiochus back in 163 B.C..
        And they are the very same acts of abomination that the end time Antichrist will do.
        See Dan. 9:27, Dan. 12:11, & Rev.13:1-7
        Jesus Himself referred to Daniel’s prophecy of the end time abomination of desolation. (Mat.24:15)
        Are Antiochus and the end time Antichrist possessed by the same spirit of abomination?
        Is it possible that they are possessed by the very same demon?
        Both are expressing the same obscene spirit of blasphemy.

        As we know, spirit beings, unlike human beings, are immortal.
        They can act in the lives of different human beings.
        And they can possess those men in different time slots separated by thousands of years.
        That is, if they are free to do so.

        The narrative in Daniel 11 seems to run on across two millennia.
        The account crosses over, sometimes imperceptibly, from Antiochus to the Antichrist.
        And sometimes the passage applies to both Antiochus and Antichrist.

        Here is an interesting possibility.
        Is the Holy Spirit outlining the spiritual expression of the beast demon in two world rulers?
        Is He telling the story of one demon as he emerges in two men and in two histories?
        Here we have two abominable tryrant rulers, Antiochus Epiphanes, and Antichrist in his beast role.
        Could it be that both rulers, in their time, are possessed by the very same beast demon of the Abyss?!
        B. THE BEAST “WAS NOT” (IN JOHN’S TIME).
        We are told that the beast “was not” in John’s day.
        This would be the time period of the late first century.
        So just where was the monstrous thing in those Roman times?

        Well if we look at the scripture above it seems that the beast demon was incarcerated.
        Because John said that the beast spirit would “ascend out of this bottomless pit”.
        So the Bible is telling us here exactly where that place of imprisonment for demons is located.
        The beast demon is contained or held in the bottomless pit (or Abyss).

        So who is it that is holding or restraining this hideous beast demon down in the pit?
        Who is the restrainer of this abominable antichrist demon?
        THE RESTRAINER OF THE BEAST DEMON
        OF THE BOTTOMLESS PIT, (OR ABYSS)
        It is our Apostle Paul who comes through for us here.
        He has the next piece of the puzzle.
        And Paul actually tells us a lot about the restrainer of the antichrist.
        He also tells us that the restrainer will be taken out of the way at a certain time.
        “He who restrains” will be taken out of the way we are told.

        This has to be a very important moment in history.
        [….]

        • To summarize this and Dan.11 in a sentence:
          The Angel speaks first of Antiochus until verse 30, than the story shifts to the beast of the “time of the end” until chapter 12, 1And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

          2And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

          Very clearly, Antiouchus was possessed by/or was the same “beast”, who shall come out ot the bottomless pit.
          Old testament AC is the NT AC.

    • Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

      Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom [are] ten kings [that] shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

      According to Daniel, the last (4th) beast is another kingdom, just like the first three. It is not the Antichrist.
      He even goes on to say that there will be ten kings that arise from this kingdom (4th beast). It is an empire that breaks up into ten separate countries. Rome did exactly that.

      As for the “diverse” matter:
      Dan 7:3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

      So big deal. Each beast was diverse. What he was actually referring to is that each empire was different from the previous one, not part of the same empire. This is important only after the Roman empire since each of the next 4 kingdoms all came out of the existing one. In other words, the Roman empire became the Holy Roman Empire, which dissolved into the Vatican which died and came back (was, is not and yet is), then the Roman countries came together again (EU) and soon the Vatican will merge with it. 8 kingdoms from Babylon to a revived Holy Roman Empire.

      And as for the Lucifer worship, no matter how you present it, no Christian or Islamic country (or Hindu or Buddhist for that matter) will adopt Lucifer worship. It will be far more subtle than that. So subtle that almost every Christian will fall for it.
      They will be so busy looking for the big picture they won’t even notice the deception.

      • James… brother..
        the bottomless pit is a real place where evil angels and demons are incarcarated.
        Rev.20:
        1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

        2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and BOUND him a thousand years,

        3And CAST him INTO THE BOTTOMLESS PIT, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
        Rev. 9 shows also that in this pit are “locusts” and an angel named Apollyon.

        An abstract “kingdom” cant be in this place, but a spirit, who possessed the Old testament anti-christ Antiochus. He is the beast that was, and not is in Johns time.

      • And, in your theory, you are mixing the Harlot Babylon (apostate Israel) with the 4th beast.
        However, i believe we will see in the next months the second of the ten kingdoms coming into effect, the NAU.
        There are strange things going on in Vancouver.
        Please read this with an open mind.
        http://www.infowars.com/could-vancouver-2010-be-the-next-911/

        • Hey Silvan,
          If the bottomless pit is a real place, then to be truly bottomless it would extend completely thru the earth and come out the other side. Surely explorers would have discovered such a place by now. Where is it exactly? Near Jerusalem? Antarctica?
          It is only a metaphor for a place tat God will incarcerate the devil during the millennium. You can’t take every word in prophecy as literal.
          Harlot Babylon is apostate Israel, but you must remember that Israel in prophecy is quite often referring to “spiritual Israel” or the Christian church. So mixing the Holy Roman Empire and the catholic church is by no way a stretch.
          As for the ten kingdoms, let me show you what the footnotes of the Amplified Bible has to say about it:

          Footnotes:
          Daniel 2:32 Daniel’s interpretation of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream outlines the further history of Gentile world power. The four metals of which the image was made represented four successive empires, each with the power to possess the whole inhabited earth–though each stopped short of that. They were: (1) Babylon (Jer. 51:7) (2) Medo-Persia (3) Greece under Alexander (4) Rome. The latter power was divided first into the two legs, corresponding to the eastern and western Roman empires, and then (after a very long time apparently) into the ten toes, a confederacy made up largely of European nations (Dan. 7:24-27).

          Then in the notes for Chapter 7:
          Daniel 7:13 Notice that the four beasts of this seventh chapter of Daniel symbolize the same world kingdoms that were pictured by the images in Dan. 2, and the ten horns of the last beast correspond to the ten toes of the legs of iron (Dan. 2:41-42). Much of both prophecies has been fulfilled, and at this writing “the blessed hope” (Tit. 2:13) of the ages is also showing every evidence of nearing realization. Both visions portray the end of Gentile world power. View the events of the present in the light of these disclosures, and they fall into focus and make sense. The individual child of God is challenged as never before in the world’s history to let go of the trivial and the transient, and to yield himself unreservedly to Him Who is coming back to fulfill the longings of every true believer–forever

          You are waiting for the Vancouver Olympics to fulfill prophecy that history has shown to have already occurred. Get back to me in a month and we will see if you have proved the amplified bible wrong.
          (And also Martin Luther, John Calvin, John Knox etc, etc, etc.)
          Good luck on that anyway.

          • I’ve always considered that what John called the bottomless pit in Rev 20:1 was in fact a real place. It doesn’t have to be on the earth, though. Might it not be like a black hole?

            • ChessOwl

              As long as the devil and his angels are gone, I guess it does not matter where the bottomless pit is.

              I assumed it was inside the earth, but it does not have to be. Maybe it is a black hole, like you said.

              Only God knows how big it is, to fit the number of people going there.

          • James, James, James,
            The bottomless pit is a real place. It is mentioned SEVEN times in REVELATION.
            1- And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
            2- And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke
            of the pit.
            3- And they had a king over them, [which is] the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue [is] Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath [his] name Apollyon.
            4- And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
            5- The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
            6- And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
            7- And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

            Furthermore, tell me are you a believer?
            At what point of a holy verse of scripture do YOU decide that
            a verse ‘It is only a metaphor for a place tat God will incarcerate the devil during the millennium. You can’t take every word in prophecy as literal.’????

            Sounds to me like you are in error.

            I personally hold every word of holy prophecy ‘true’.
            And actually very literal!

            The Bottomless Pit is as real as the dragon!

            • The beast is not an actual animal. The woman is not an actual human female. The bottomless pit is Nat and actual hole in the ground with no bottom. Some words are symbolic. You should refer to the following web site on this:

              http://www.prophecycode.com/symbols.asp

              There are symbolic words all thru the bible. You can’t take every word literally.
              Literally!

              • I never said the beast was an animal ding bat …
                The beast is a dragon with snake legs …
                The beast doesn’t fit in the earthly animal kingdom.
                He is a cursed ‘devil’.
                The woman is an actual woman.
                And the bottomless pit is a pit without bottom.
                Argue not the Holy Scriptures nor take away from what it says less you find the bottomless pit!
                You have no authority to determine what is literal.

                • Read Daniel 7 :17
                  17These four great beasts are four kings who shall arise out of the earth.

                  The beasts are kings (kingdoms) not snakes. If you try to take every word literally you will never figure it out properly.

                  • We are speaking of REVELATION.

                    • If the whole world will wonder after the beast I doubt it will be a snake.
                      The beast can’t be Satan since it is mentioned along with the false prophet when the devil is put in chains and the other two are thrown into the lake of fire. It is an unholy trinity – three entities which we must identify.

            • Amen Abigail,
              A point of hermeneutics is that we use the normal, literal method of interpretation, just like reading any book. The words mean what they say, and say what they mean.
              There are some places that are an allegory, but in such a case, the interpretation is provided by God in the context.
              The phrase bottomless pit is not to be taken overly literally; it does not mean that there is no bottom to it, but that it’s depth is vast, seemingly bottomless. It is a real place! Its location is hidden from man.
              When the beast and the false prophet are cast into the bottomless pit, and later Satan, the inspired penman is not fantasizing. In Re 20:7, Satan is loosed out of the bottomless pit, call in that verse his prison. This is all very literal.

          • James, i really hope that you can soon see the truth from the Truth.
            But, at the moment, pride stands in way.
            Spend some time with the Lord, alone, in quiteness.
            Don’t wish me “good luck”, please.
            Luck is the “light” of LUC-ifer.
            I need blessings of Yhwh.
            NOT LUC!

  27. Take note of these words …
    And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
    Men’s hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

    Notice the words ‘those things which are coming ON the earth.’
    Jesus spoke these words.
    I think many will be surprised when they actually SEE what I already know!
    Because there was a time I thought ‘Rome’ ….
    Now I think the beast is actually a real tangible beast. And all men will say …
    ‘ Who [is] like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?’
    I don’t know of any country that would say that of another nation in today’s world.
    Certainly not the mighty nations we have on the face of the earth today.
    The dragon himself gives power to the beast.
    Who is the dragon? Figure that out and you will have the answer to who is the beast.
    Although the number is a number of man it doesn’t mean the beast is a man.

    • Yeah this thought crossed my mind also time and time…!
      Can you tell more, what you know about it?
      Will the beast be a fallen angel, materialized, disguised as an “Alien” or maybe a Nephilim?
      It must be from the Abyss/bottomless pit, whereever that is.

      I really believe, the sixth seal (obv. a polar shift, eart axis is shifted, all men hide in D.U.M.B.s) is caused by Planet X. At that time is imo the “last trumpet”, the first resurrection and our “catching away”.
      http://www.watchmanbiblestudy.com/Articles/6thSeal_PlanetX.htm

      • Dear Silvan,
        I don’t know a lot, but I’ll say this in a question form. What did happen to Haiti?
        No, I do not think it was HAARP. although I would probably have a least thought of that possibility if the LORD would not have specifically told me that ‘the quake is not man made.’
        What a strange thing for Him to say.
        Prior to the quake maybe a Sabbath before the quake He showed me a vision.
        I saw a big beautiful black panther and super imposed upon his body was a
        large locust. And I said ‘an earthquake.’ He showed me again the same vision with the large locust super imposed upon the black panther’s body.

        Of course I did not understand this vision until the day of the quake. Actually I think I was the first one to see the news release that day.
        That night I saw many in a vision many black ‘forms’ coming out of the ocean and running (stampede) all over the ground. There were so many of these ‘forms’ that it caused the earth to shake.
        My conclusion is this; The quake was caused by a locust of demons which came out of the ocean.
        Now do not think this is easy for me to share since I know before hand the ridicule I will suffer for writing this.
        But then … so were many mocked for saying much less.
        What would you call these ‘forms’ if you had seen them?
        Where is the botttomless pit? I am not sure … but I think it to be in the underworld.
        The Lord is on the doorstep and against all odds we must trust in Him.
        Pray for me because my battle with these powers is great!
        We are in a war and the sooner everyone wakes up and puts on the full armor of Christ the better. For we fight not against flesh and blood but
        against … For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

        I think the time to play sunday school is over.

        • Dear Abigail
          i will pray for you.
          You are right, the time of vain arguing with brethren over prophecy is almost over and playing lukewarm games with the Holy and Allmighty, too.
          Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works. Hebrew 10

  28. Hi Marianne,
    I could be way off the mark, but I believe that the “First Beast” in Revelation Chapter 13, is very hard to recognize in context with the many “Beasts” mentioned.
    I take the “First Beast” as being that “Beast” or Power/authority that has a “Deadly Wound” and was “healed”.
    The WOUNDING is described in detail in Revelation 18, where this BABYLON was fallen, and “goes up in smoke”, and the MERCHANTS stand afar off, WAILING her judgment that took just under ONE hour to complete! This was the TRADE Center of 9/11/2001.
    Merchants are involved with TRADE (?) The news of 9-11 was beamed over the whole GLOBE! There are 10 Trading regions on this earth, regulated by the World Trade Organization in Geneva, and the U.S.A. is assigned the (0), or FIRST of the TEN regions that use the BAR Code …ie. 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9.
    What I refer to is the FIRST digit shown on the product Code.
    China, Australia, New Zealand all share the First Digit #9.
    As in 9|123456|123456, whereas the USA has 0|123456|123456 .
    This FIRST Beast is referred to as a HORN on the Main Beast that has 7 HEADS and …10 HORNS! The 7 HEADS are the “G7”, who provide the FINANCIAL Guarantee to back up the push for UNITY in leadership to RULE the World. This “G7” is turns to “G8” with the introduction of RUSSIA as a Member country. This is described in Revelation 17:11 Who is [a Power], but is not [a Power any more], YET IS, influencing [Through the U.N.]
    The U.N. is the Main Beast that has the Prostitute RIDING on it.
    I believe this Prostitute is the Vatican (Roman Church), with all of the “Protestant” Daughters, who are all SUN Worshipers, in the guise of “Christianity” Partaking in the Heathen practices of “Christmas” and “Easter”. Jeremiah 10:2-5 tells of the Heathen practice of celebrating the end of the Winter Solstice and Birth of a NEW SUN, that gives LIFE again.
    Easter is linked to that Celebration which is a continuation of the Veneration of Nimrod, Semiramis and Tammuz from the time when Yahweh confused the builders of the tower of Babel with different languages, thus the whole world has this 3-in-one god in the form of the TRINITY. Yahweh said that His FIRST Command is that He is ONE GOD, -NOT 3 in ONE! Mark 12:29. And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
    The Queen of Heaven, is now changed to MARY, with the Hot-Cross Buns [Cross + for TAMMUZ] Jeremiah 7:18. The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead [their] dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.
    NOTE – this is over 600 Before Christ! Jeremiah 44:17-25 will also give you more of this abomination that we all seem to be oblivious to its origins!
    I came across a very interesting article on http://www.hope-of-israel.org on the TRUE origins of Easter.
    Getting back to the “First” Beast, it is an EVOLVING BEAST that eventually RULES the WORLD. Daniel 7 gives this as starting from World War One, on till the END of MAN’S Kingdoms [As in Dan.2], or in other words, from the FEET till the ROCK that smites the image.
    Daniel 7 tells of 4 Beasts [Lion,Bear,Leopard, Beast with 10 horns] ie Germany with the name of MAN in the “Heart” of it… gerMANy. Was TOLD to stand on 2 “Feet” [East/West Germany] Its “Wings” [Air-force] was plucked from it.
    The Bear is Russia, was leaning to one side [East Europe] with 3 Ribs in its mouth [Serbs/Croats/Bosnian]- [Sarajevo place where Prince Ferdinand was assassinated – caused – WW.1] This BEAR was told to DEVOUR much Flesh! [East Bloc]
    Leopard was the British Commonwealth [Dominion was given it] with 4 HEADS of Government, and 4 Air-forces [4 heads/wings]
    FOURTH Beast is the League of Nations/United Nations with 10 horns [World Trade Organization of 10 divisions]
    The Little Horn is the LAST Secretary General. [Dan.7:8] who rules and TAKES the Sovereignty of the first three powers away, [Germany/Russia/United Kingdom] (3 Horns Removed).
    At the removal of the Sovereignty of these major powers, of which the British is LAST, we will see the power given to the U.N. as depicted in Rev.17:11-13.
    Revelation Chapter 13:11 describes another beast with 2 Horns, which is associated with the U.N. [World Bank & I.M.F.]
    I shall end here, for this subject is too large to submit in one sitting.

    • The “Book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ” is all about Jesus Christ. His people, his church and his second coming. Don’t look to Islam. Don’t look to the U.N. Don’t look to the New World Order or the illuminati or the Freemasons etc. It goes no further than his church – his bride that he will take when he returns. That bride must be perfect, not just people that call themselves Christians. They must keep his commandments and have the patience of the saints.
      It is a simple warning to his people. Most will not heed or understand it. The whole world will marvel after the beast and will be destroyed. Come out of her now, God tells us. Will we listen? I hope you all will. That is why we are here.

  29. Hi again Marianne,
    I forgot to mention the fact that Revelation 12 Mentioned the POWER that was DEVIL inspired has 7 heads (G7) with Sovereignty, and these 10 horns (World Trade Centers) have NO Sovereignty (Crowns), but Revelation 13 tells of the moment AFTER the BEAST [U.N.] is given SOVEREIGNTY when the WORLD Trade Organization is Given Sovereignty, with the depiction of 10 horns having CROWNS.
    Rev.12:3. And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
    Rev.13:1. And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

    • Olaf, you are completely correct about the whore of Babylon, it is the catholic church and it’s pagan-filled offshoots. But everything else you say is way off base. The entire prophecy of Daniel / John is all about the church and nothing else. God doesn’t give a crap about world banking, the U.N. or anything else that does not deal directly with His church. Its all about the religion, not the money. You are reading way too much into the prophecy. There is no need to make it so complex and you obviously have an agenda to make it fit your theory, but that is usually the case will most interpretations. It is obvious you have put a lot of effort into it and I commend you for that.
      But prophecy should read like a story not a jigsaw puzzle. If your explanation is correct you are the only person on earth smart enough to figure it out. That means God is trying to fool or abandon the rest of us.
      So in case you’re right please tell us what the mark of the beast is and how we can recognize him and his number 666?
      Thanks.

    • hi Olaf

      Thinking…if Babylon is “TRADE,” then there w ill be another 911. Because the scripture says “fallen, fallen,” not just fallen once.

      In this statement:

      The Little Horn is the LAST Secretary General. [Dan.7:8] who rules and TAKES the Sovereignty of the first three powers away, [Germany/Russia/United Kingdom] (3 Horns Removed).

      Why is the SG the little horn, and why is it Germany/Russia/United Kingdom that gets removed?

    • Olaf, some interesting things! I agree with a couple things you mentioned, about the Queen of heaven, and Tammuz, and Nimrod.
      Banking, it is possible, will play a part in the fall and collapse of the world monetary system. An inersting article alone those lines is on the Rolling Stones website, The Great American Bubble Machine.

  30. Abigial…

    Big hugs to you.. I do know how it truly feels when mocked by others.. Believe me, I tried in many different ways to get through people.. but.. Oh boy, always get invisible hand slap in face…

    Yes, they are out and prowling.. that is what I have been aware of…. Wish I can see more but I have my limits.. You are doing just fine 🙂 I am only lurking and reading and learning.. but will post if needed.. Keep up good work…

    By the way, you can have any good laughs anytime.. I do not mind at all 😉 Laughter is a good medication.. God bless you.

  31. James,
    Your theory of the Roman Empire being the beast is an old one indeed; it came out of the dark ages, and needs to stay there. It was very apropos then; the Popes and RC church persecuted and killed the true believers in incredible numbers; they hunted them from one country to the next; it is incredible the power and control that church had! but it is not so today, except in 3rd world countries, and then not like it was in Europe.
    Europe is succumbing to Islam, the beast that has risen out of the sea “of humanity; the nations.” Islam, not Rome surrounds Israel on all sides, and has been at war with her for years now; since the very day of her inception.
    Ps 83 names the countries by name; those same countries and peoples still live there today; read Hal Lindsay’s book, Root of Jihad, the Everlasting Hatred, as he traces the descendants of Ishmael, son of Abraham, and Abraham’s 2nd wife keturah and all the children she bore to him, and how he sent them to the east of Israel, because the land and promise was to Isaac.
    Read Ps 83; it is one of the most apropos passages of Scripture for our times, the time of the end.
    1Ch 1:32 Now the sons of Keturah, Abraham’s concubine: she bare Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah. And the sons of Jokshan; Sheba, and Dedan. 33 And the sons of Midian; Ephah, and Epher, and Henoch, and Abida, and Eldaah.
    All these are the sons of Keturah. All these are part of the Arab tribes along with Esau who is Edom, and Ishmael’s descendants. There was hate then, and it has continued. Their goal is to eliminate Israel. Not so of Rome; and it is not really a part of end time Bible prophecy.
    End time Bible Prophecy is about Israel and her enemies, not about Europe, and Rome.
    Da. 2:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
    This verse says, A fourth beast; it doesn’t say the fourth beast, so it doesn’t have to be the empire that directly followed Greece.
    Verse 12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
    This verse tells us that the first 3 beasts aren’t abolished, but their lives are prolonged for a season and time, that is until the time of the end.
    Da 2:44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
    Daniel says that in the days of these kings, God will destroy them and set up His kingdom. Rome is long gone; Mohammed’s empire destroyed the Roman empire, and was the largest empire by far.
    Da 7:17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth. 18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.
    This verse says the same thing as 2:44, the saints will take the kingdom from these kings, whose lives were prolonged, for the time of the end, and possess the kingdom. Again, Rome is long gone; this prophecy is not about Rome, but about the end time.
    Islam is much more of an antichrist religion that Catholicism, which is only one of the daughter whores. islam has its roots directly in Babylonianism; again, Hal Lindsay points out Islam’s roots in the Arabic religions. Hal Lindsay, though, is blinded by his same belief in the old Roman theory, and Pretribulationism, that he can’t see the beast of islam, though he talks about it every week in his programs. I haven’t heard him for about a year; maybe he has seen the light.

    • Just a few notes.
      I think you are confusing Ezekiel’s war of Gog with Daniel‘s story. The Muslim nations will be punished by God for invading Israel, but they are not the harlot or the beast, any beast.
      And if you think about it, the saints (Christians) did take over the Roman empire and the church they formed (minus the paganism soon to be removed) will last forever.
      The four empires of Daniel are successive. The statue in the dream of Ch.2 is one solid piece – no gaps. Here is what the Amplified Bible has to say about it:

      Footnotes:
      Daniel 2:32 Daniel’s interpretation of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream outlines the further history of Gentile world power. The four metals of which the image was made represented four successive empires, each with the power to possess the whole inhabited earth–though each stopped short of that. They were: (1) Babylon (Jer. 51:7) (2) Medo-Persia (3) Greece under Alexander (4) Rome. The latter power was divided first into the two legs, corresponding to the eastern and western Roman empires, and then (after a very long time apparently) into the ten toes, a confederacy made up largely of European nations (Dan. 7:24-27).

      Here are the actual verses referred to:

      3And four great beasts came up out of the sea in succession, and different from one another.

      4The first [the Babylonian empire under Nebuchadnezzar] was like a lion and had eagle’s wings. I looked till the wings of it were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth and made to stand upon two feet as a man, and a man’s heart was given to it.

      5And behold another beast, a second one [the Medo-Persian empire], was like a bear, and it raised up itself on one side [or one dominion] and three ribs were in its mouth between its teeth; and it was told, Arise, devour much flesh.

      6After this I looked, and behold, another [the Grecian empire of Alexander the Great], like a leopard which had four wings of a bird on its back. The beast had also four heads [Alexander’s generals, his successors], and dominion was given to it.

      7After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast [the Roman empire]–terrible, powerful and dreadful, and exceedingly strong. And it had great iron teeth; it devoured and crushed and trampled what was left with its feet. And it was different from all the beasts that came before it, and it had ten horns [symbolizing ten kings].

      Trying to prove your point by trying to specifically define the words “a” and “the” is like President Clinton’s statement in the Lewinski affair: “It depends on what your definition of “is” is.
      You can’t do that type of thing. If so, the a season and a time equals 15 months (1-1/4 years), not 2,500 years. That would really be stretching the true definition.

      Like most proponents of your theory you are throwing all God’s wrath onto the Muslims, in an attempt to divert it from God’s own people. That is treading on very thin ice and it is all about to melt. I urge you to be careful and think twice about it.

      • James,
        My brother, let me ask you a question straight out; are you a 7th Day Adventist? You keep wanting to place God’s wrath on His churches; churches that you said in your study above that don’t keep the laws of God, and the Saturday, 7th day Sabbath.
        The Catholic church was never a part of God’s true churches. True churches that preach and teach the true gospel or our Lord Jesus Christ, never came out of the Roman Catholic System; Jesus started His church, and the gates of hell have never prevailed against it! nor will they ever! The Lutherans came out of the Rome system, but there have always been true churches, and they have always been outside of the false Roman system.
        You quote the notes out of the Living Bible, as if they were inspired? You quote the Living Bible too; it is not even a translation; it is a paraphrase; come on my brother; lets get real.
        My brother, the Bible is authoritative! Prov. 30 :5 says, Every word of God is pure! It says every word, and thats what it means! Ps 12:6,7 says, The WORDS of the LORD are pure WORDS, as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times! God’s Word is pure, preserved, and precise; I can say, “A” forth kingdom; rather than “the” fourth kingdom; the wording is very important.
        Daniel was given a vision that covered time, all the way to the second coming of Christ, to the book of Revelation, a time period of over 2500 years! Do you believe in the second coming of Christ?
        To say that Daniel’s prophecy can’t, or doesn’t jump to Muhammad’s empire is not any more absurd than to think that he was referring to the Roman empire that was 2000 years removed from the second coming of Christ, and unfolding of the events of the book of Revelation. We are seeing it unfold before our very eyes with the rise of Radical Islam all over the globe, the beast of Revelation.

        • M.R.
          Lets just say that I keep the Sabbath that was etched in stone by the finger of God. Show me where he says it was changed and I will stop.
          All churches including the catholic church have their roots in the early Roman church. Luther was a monastic catholic priest and after starting the protestant revolution declared the Pope to be the Antichrist. He believed the beast was Rome. So do I.
          As for the bible, even the King James is skewed toward catholic theology. It may be the most popular and perhaps the best translation but it still has many mistakes. It does use antiquated language which many newer versions have updated. And while the Amplified bible does explain some of the meaning, it does not change the word of God. And by the way, my entire article is based on the KJV, I only referred to the Amplified Bible to help make my point. Perhaps there is a bible out there tat helps make yours?
          Any bible is only as reliable as it’s original translators so splitting hairs over the words “a” and “the” is useless. The Empire State Building is “a” building. The building is a building. The kingdom is a kingdom. The beast is a beast. (Well not really, not literally). See the mess you get into when you try to use words too literally.
          Also, God gave the visions, he did not write the words himself. We must give the authors some poetic license. He gives the inspiration, he does not give dictation.
          Plus Daniel repeats the beast kingdoms several times just so we are clear on them. He describes each beast destroying the previous one. If he were going to simply skip over Rome, the most important kingdom in history during which our Lord Jesus Christ was born, I’m certain he would have made it clear, not just by changing “the” to “a.”
          Ask a history teacher to read the text and see what they think. This is a simple story, not rocket science. God is not going to risk his prophetic message on semantics.
          But if you’re right, we should be doing this blog on an Islamic web site, since us Christians will be exempt from the destruction. We just have to sit it out till the rapture, then we‘re home free.
          Sweet!

          • James,
            Regarding the Sabbath, see my post at the bottom of the page; I explain it there.
            Regarding church history, I strongly disagree with your ideas. I don’t mean to be unkind, but some of the stuff you espouse is in direct conflict with the Bible itself; it makes me wonder if you actually believe the Bible?
            Jesus said He would build His church; He didn’t say that Peter would build his church; by the way, I am a Baptist, not a protestant, and I don’t have time or space to explain the difference, except to say, Baptists didn’t come out of the Roman Catholic church; there were Baptists existing in England in 200 A.D., a hundred year before Constantine embraced Christianity, in an outward form only; he marched his armies through the river to baptize them. I might ask, what church history book, or books have you read?
            Martin Luther started the Lutheran church; He did come out of the Catholic church. Martin Luther translated the N.T. into German; William Tindale used his translation when he translated the N.T. into English. John Calvin started the Presbyterian church. The Wesley brothers founded the Methodists, much later.
            Again, I don’t mean to be unkind, but your ideas abut the Bible are filled with misinformation. I don’t know where you get all this stuff, but it is certainly not truth!
            Read about the translators of the KJV; some of them were saved out of Catholicism. They were all born again believers; they believed in the inerrency, infallibility, inspiration, and preservation of the Scriptures. They believed the Bible was verbally, plenarily inspired by God.
            The Grk. word for inspiration, theopneustos, means, God breathed.
            The Bible does not have mistakes, mistranslations, and errors in it, regardless of what some believe, and teach.
            Some of these men were fluent in Latin, Greek, and Hebrew at age thirteen. They were the greatest scholars assembled to date that have translated the Bible; the English language was also at its peak when they translated the KJV.
            The KJV and the NKJV are the only modern Bibles translated from the Textus Receptus Greek text, compiled by Erasmus; all of the other modern translation are from the Westcott & Hort Eclectic Greek text, a fundamentally different text; it omits 3600 word from the Greek N.T., and change another 3200 word, and add another nine hundred words. That Greek text is basically a Catholic text, and differs little from the Catholic Bible, N.T.
            The KJV was the 7th translation into English from the original Greek & Hebrew, and from the Textus Receptus.
            An interesting read is the life of William Tindale, the first man to translate the N.T. into English from the original Greek. He is famous for saying that, A plowboy will know more about God and His Word, than the Pope of Rome.
            The Catholic church condemned Tindale as a heretic, and burned him at the stake; they confiscated as many of his N.T.s as they could, and burned them. His N.T. was the Bible the Ana-Baptists used, many of whom were also hunted down, and put to death by Rome.
            But your idea that everything came out of Rome is in direct conflict with the Bible.

            • You need some fact checking here. Martin Luther was a Catholic priest. Here is part of his biography from an online encyclopedia:
              Martin Luther (10 November 1483 – 18 February 1546) initiated the Protestant Reformation.[1] As a priest and theology professor, he confronted indulgence salesman Johann Tetzel with his The Ninety-Five Theses in 1517. Luther strongly disputed their claim that freedom from God’s punishment of sin could be purchased with money. His refusal to retract all of his writings at the demand of Pope Leo X in 1520 and the Holy Roman Emperor Charles V at the Diet of Worms in 1521 resulted in his excommunication by the pope and condemnation as an outlaw by the emperor.

              Much scholarly debate has focused on Luther’s writings about the Jews. His statements that the Jews’ homes should be destroyed, their synagogues burned, money confiscated, and liberty curtailed were revived and used in propaganda by the Nazis from 1933 to 1945.[8] As a result of this and his revolutionary theological views, his legacy remains controversial.

              His hatred of the Jews is the reason he failed to correct the sabbath problem and kept his church on pagan Sunday worship.

              In any case it sounds like you believe the Catholic church is the whore of Babylon and will be destroyed when Christ returns. That was my whole point.

              • James,
                I know Luther was a monk in the Catholic Church; he was converted studying the Greek N.T. compiled by his good friend, Desiderous Erasmus, which Greek N.T. he later translated into German, and which N.T. after that William Tindale translated into English; by the way, I have Tindale’s N.T. and have read it; the KJV is 95% Tindale’s translation. It is translated into modern English; the English that William Tindale used and the letters are almost unintelligible to us today.
                Anyway, the verse Luther was converted studying was, the just shall live by faith; he was under the false Catholic system of pennance, and works for salvation, and he realized, that Christ did the work for us; He paid our sin debt with His life, and He defeated death for us, so that all’s a person has to do is receive Christ, and appropriate His finished work on the Cross, the gift of God, and Christ saves us.
                Luther received Christ by faith, and was born again by the Spirit of God into the kingdom and family of God.
                He began to preach against the false doctrines of Rome, and they began to persecute him; he didn’t want to leave the Catholic church; he thought it was the right church; it just needed reforming, but he eventually was forced to leave; he nailed his 95 thesis to the door of the church, and left. How wrong he was about the Catholic church!
                The true churches existed, in his day, outside of the Catholic church. A Baptist, and contemporary of Martin Luther was Meno Simmons; the Mennonites claim him as the head of their movement, but he was a Baptist.
                You can read a brief Church history from a Baptist viewpoint, The Trail of Blood, by J.M. Carroll at this website: http://www.fbinstitute.com/trail/intro.htm; a good read! I read it the first time, in 1973. If you want a good church history book, 2 vols. A Manual of Church History, by Albert H. Newman, available on amazon.

                • The only famous Baptist I know of is William Miller. He used one of Daniels prophesies to predict the second coming in 1844 – the “Great Disappointment.”
                  I’ve looked into the prophecy and it is a correct date and even matches up with one of the main timelines in the great pyramid which includes the date of the Exodus, and the birth and resurrection of Christ. (Strange but true).
                  So what do the Baptists say happened in the church in 1844? Must have been fairly significant if it’s in both the bible and the pyramid.
                  Anything?

                  • James,
                    William Miller was not a saved Baptist; he converted to the Seventh Day Adventism; thats quit telling of you, “brother.”

                    • So, you have discovered the true meaning of the 1844 prophecy. Guess Daniel thought that the 7th day movement would be an important milestone. Me too. That’s why I am a sabbath keeper.
                      Perhaps it is the whole reason for Revelation in the first place.

              • James, the Whore Babylon will not be destroyed when Christ returns!!
                It will be eaten and burned with fire by the BEAST!!
                Yes, t h e beast you are all time equalling with the whore…
                Man READ your bible, love the truth, pray for wisdom and stopp THIS!

                • So being eaten and burned with fire is not the same as being destroyed? Dude, get a thesaurus and chill.

                  • sure, my point was, the whore is destroyed by the beast not by Jesus

                    • I only said it would be destroyed before he returns. I don’t know who will do the job. Please show us where the beast eats its rider.

                    • Revelation 17
                      Listen:
                      16And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

                      James, when will you finally admit Rome is not the beast?

                    • Silvan,
                      Seems we ran out of space in this thread – no reply button. Before continuing please go to the bottom of the page and tell me who you think the two bests of Rev. . Are and the whore, the harlots and Babylon. These are all symbolic and everyone seems to have a different definition. Then I will continue my response, which may take a little space.

            • And here is what they say about the Baptist Church:

              Origins of the Baptist Church.

              While most modern scholars agree that the denomination traces its origin to the 17th century via the English Separatists, some scholars[dubious – discuss] hold to a variety of other positions. Baptist Historian Bruce Gourley teaches that there are four main views of Baptist origins.[7][clarification needed]
              [edit]Outgrowth of English Separatism
              The predominant view of Baptist origins is that Baptists came along in historical development in the century after the rise of the original Protestant denominations.[8] It was a time of considerable political and religious turmoil. Both individuals and churches were willing to give up their theological roots if they became convinced that a more biblical “truth” had been discovered.[9]
              This perspective on Baptist history holds that the Baptist faith originated from within the Separatist movement. Prior to the Reformation, the Church of England (Anglicans) had broken away from the Catholic Church. Then came the mainstream Protestant Reformation.[7] There were some Christians who were not content with the achievements of the mainstream Protestant Reformation.[1][10] There also were Christians who were disappointed that the Church of England had not made corrections of what some considered to be errors and abuses. Of those most critical of the Church’s direction, some chose to stay and try to make constructive changes from within the Anglican Church. They became known as “Puritans” and are described by Gourley as cousins of the Separatists. Others decided they must leave the Church because of their dissatisfaction and became known as the Separatists.

              Sorry but historians do not even remotely agree with your pre-catholic origins of the Baptists.

              • James,
                Like I said, most church history was written by Catholics! This is testimony to that; everything came out of the Catholics, according to the Catholic church historians!
                Did you go to the website I gave you, and read The Trail of Blood?
                What is your source of these misguided revelations and untruths?
                This is something a Lutheran, Protestant, or Catholic historian would say.
                But, like the land of point, You see what you want to see, and you hear what you want to hear.

                • I’ve looked at the site and done some other research on the Baptists.
                  They worship on Sunday
                  They celebrate Christmas
                  They celebrate Easter.
                  They do not celebrate the seven annual Sabbaths in the Sacred Calendar. (Feasts of Trumpets / tabernacles, Day of Atonement etc.

                  None of this matters to me but imagine what Jesus will think when He finds out.

                  Rev 18:4
                  And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

                  • I think your “theology” comes from David Pack and Armstrongism. Be very careful what you believe by them. Especially about one day in prophecy is ALWAYS a thousand years. And the Church has NOT replaced Israel! That is replacement theology. God still has a plan for Israel. Get out of your false religion and find the truth.

  32. This gentleman is a physicist.

  33. Whoever said that I have bad dreams about dragons as Ergon is sadly mistaken.. Just pray that IT WILL NOT ATTACK you because you sound like a disbeliever.

    Have a care. God bless.

  34. James,
    You say a woman in scripture always represents a church; where is your Scriptural authority for this statement, my brother? A woman in Scripture sometimes represents false doctrine, but never a church. You just can’t make up stuff to fit your theory, because it sound nice, without Scriptural president.
    You make up another thing, that the 1260 days of Re 12 are actually 1260 years; come on my brother, lets don’t make up the rules as we go, so you can spin them into the web of your theory. The Roman church didn’t start until 300 AD; it was not in existence at the time of the birth of Christ. The true church was not either.
    The woman, Israel, is not a church; she, Israel gave birth to Christ, and Christ gave birth to His church, bought with His blood, and started by Him personally; Jesus said, “I will build MY church.” The apostles didn’t start the church, but they were in the church that Christ started, and on the day of Pentecost, He baptized His church with His Spirit.
    The true churches meet on the Lord’s day, Sunday, the first day of the week, not on Saturday; the false 7th Day Adventists, keepers of the law, meet on the Saturday Sabbath. They also teach falsely, that Sunday worship is the mark of the beast, started by the Roman whore church. They also teach that the beast is the Roman Catholic Church; in fact they teach almost what you are teaching. The 7th Day Adventists also teach that churches that worship on Sunday, are false churches.
    You also say that the kingdoms of Babylon, Media & Persian, and Greece are fallen, and that Rome to is also fallen, but revived, in the RC church, and the European Union. It is actually just the opposite; Babylon is Iraq, alive and well, Media is northern Iran, and Persian is Southern Iran, and the Grecian empire is the Leopard empire of Revelation 13; these are all alive and well, brought back from the dead, as it were, and united by Islam under Mohammed, and Rome is the one fallen, defeated by Islam around 1400; the Roman church is a toothless tiger, rich, yes.
    Jerusalem is also a city that sits on 7 hills; Jerusalem is called the whore, and the harlot; read Ezk 16. The blood of the apostles was shed in Jerusalem, not Rome,
    Re 17:6 And I saw the woman (possibly Jerusalem) drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
    Re 18:24 And in her (possibly Jerusalem) was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth. (also the blood of Christ).
    These martyrs died in Jerusalem 300 years before, the Roman church existed.
    Your theory doesn’t hold water, in so many ways!
    I hate to be unkind, but really, your theory has too many conflicts with too much Scripture! It lacks real truth. It takes a little truth to cement all lies together; even a clock that doesn’t run is right twice a day.

    • I did not say a woman in SCRIPTURE always represents a church, just a woman in PROPHECY. There is a difference.
      Here are a link to a site that specialize in prophecy codes:
      http://www.prophecycode.com/keys-to-prophecy.asp

      I’ve been to several such sites and they all agree on the terms. For a reference on this page I will copy it here:

      Animals and their Parts
      • Horse = Strength and Power in Battle Job 39:19, Psalms 147:10, Proverbs 21:31
      • Dragon = Satan or his agency Isaiah 27:1;30:6, Psalm 74:13-14; Rev. 12:7-9; Ezekiel 29:3; Jeremiah 51:34
      • Beast = Kingdom/government/political power Daniel 7:17, 23
      • Lamb = Jesus/sacrifice John 1:29; 1 Corinthians 5:7
      • Lion = Jesus/Powerful King i.e. Babylon Rev. 5:4-9, Jer. 50:43-44, Dan. 7:4,17,23
      • Bear = Destructive Power / Medo Persia Proverbs 28:15, 2 Kings 2:23-24, Daniel 7:5
      • Leopard = Greece Daniel 7:6
      • Serpent = Satan Revelation 12:9; 20:2
      • Tongue = Language / Speech Exodus 4:10
      • Wolf = Disguised Enemies that hunt in a time of darkness Matthew 7:15
      • Dove = Holy Spirit Mark 1:10
      • Ram = Medo Persia Daniel 8:20
      • Goat = Greece Daniel 8:21
      • Horn = King or kingdom Daniel 7:24; 8:5, 21, 22; Zechariah 1:18, 19; Revelation 17:12
      • Wings = Speed / Protection / Deliverance Deuteronomy 28:49, Matthew 23:37

      Colors
      • White = Purity Revelation 12:9; 20:2
      • Blue = Law Numbers 15:38-39
      • Purple = Royalty Mark 15:17, Judges 8:26
      • Red/Scarlet = Sin/corruption Isaiah 1:18; Nahum 2:3; Revelation 17:1-4

      Metals, Elements, and Natural Objects
      • Gold = Pure Character Precious and Rare Isaiah 13:12
      • Silver = Pure Words & Understanding Proverbs 2:4, 3:13-14, 10:20, 25:11, Psalms 12:6
      • Brass, Tin, Iron, Lead, Silver dross = Impure Character Ezekiel 22:20-21
      • Water = Holy Spirit / Everlasting Life John 7:39, 4:14, Rev. 22:17, Eph. 5:26
      • Waters = Inhabited area/people, nations Revelation 17:15
      • Fire = Holy Spirit Luke 3:16
      • Tree = Cross; People / Nation Deut. 21:22-23, Psalm 92:12, 37:35,
      • Seed = Descendents / Jesus Romans 9:8, Galatians 3:16
      • Fruit = Works / Actions Galatians 5:22
      • Fig Tree = A Nation that should bear fruit Luke 13:6-9
      • Vineyard = Church that should bear fruit Luke 20:9-16
      • Field = World Matthew 13:38, John 4:35
      • Harvest = End of World Matthew 13:39
      • Reapers = Angels Matthew 13:39
      • Thorns / Thorny Ground = Cares of this life Mark 4:18-19
      • Stars=Angels/messengers = Revelation 1:16, 20; 12:4, 7-9; Job 38:7
      • Jordan = death Romans 6:4, Deuteronomy 4:22
      • Mountains = Political or religio-political powers Isaiah 2:2, 3; Jeremiah 17:3; 31:23; 51:24, 25; Ezekiel 17:22, 23; Daniel 2:35, 44, 45
      • Rock = Jesus/truth 1 Corinthians 10:4; Isaiah 8:13, 14; Romans 9:33; Matthew 7:24
      • Sun = Jesus/the gospel Psalm 84:11; Malachi 4:2; Matthew 17:2; John 8:12; 9:5
      • Winds=Strife/commotion/”winds of war”Jeremiah 25:31-33; 49:36, 37; 4:11-13; Zechariah 7:14

      Miscellaneous Objects
      • Lamp = Word of God Psalm 119:105
      • Oil = Holy Spirit Zechariah 4:2-6; Revelation 4:5
      • Sword = Word of God Ephesians 6:17; Hebrews 4:12
      • Bread = Word of God John 6:35, 51, 52, 63
      • Wine=blood/covenant/doctrines Luke 5:37
      • Honey = happy life Ezekiel 20:6, Deuteronomy 8:8-9
      • Clothing = Character Isaiah 64:6, Isaiah 59:6
      • Crown = A Glorious Ruler or Rulership Proverbs 16:31, Isaiah 28:5, Isaiah 62:3
      • Ring = Authority Genesis 41:42-43, Esther 3:10-11
      • Angel = Messenger Daniel 8:16; 9:21; Luke 1:19, 26; Hebrews 1:14
      • Babylon = apostasy/confusion/rebellion Gen. 10:8-10; 11:6-9; Rev. 18:2, 3; 17:1-5
      • Mark = Sign or seal of approval or disapproval Ezekiel 9:4; Romans 4:11; Revelation 13:17; 14:9-11; 7:2, 3
      • Seal = Sign or mark of approval or disapproval Romans 4:11; Revelation 7:2, 3
      • White Robes=Victory/righteousness Revelation 19:8; 3:5; 7:14
      • Jar / Vessel=Person Jermiah 18:1-4, 2 Corinthians 4:7
      • Time = 360 Day Daniel 4:16, 23, 25, 32; 7:25; Daniel 11:13 margin
      • Times = 720 Days Daniel 7:25, Revelation 12:6,14, 13:5
      • Day = Literal year Ezekiel 4:6; Numbers 14:34
      • Trumpet = loud warning of God’s approach Exodus 19:16-17, Joshua 6:4-5

      Actions, Activities, and Physical States
      • Healing = Salvation Luke 5:23-24
      • Leprosy / Sickness = Sin Luke 5:23-24
      • Famine = Dearth of Truth Amos 8:11

      People and Body Parts
      • Woman, Pure = True Church Jeremiah 6:2; 2 Corinthians 11:2; Ephesians 5:23-27
      • Woman, Corrupt = Apostate church Ezk. 16:15-58; 23:2-21; Hos. 2:5; 3:1; Rev. 14:4
      • Thief = Suddenness of Jesus’ coming 1 Thessalonians 5:2-4; 2 Peter 3:10
      • Hand = Deeds / Works / Actions Ecclesiastes 9:10, Isaiah 59:6
      • Forehead = Mind Deuteronomy 6:6-8, Romans 7:25; Ezekiel 3:8, 9
      • Feet = Your Walk / Direction Genesis 19:2, Psalm 119:105
      • Eyes = Spiritual Discernment Matthew 13:10-17, 1 John 2:11
      • Skin = Christ’s righteousness Exodus 12:5, 1 Peter 1:19, Isaiah 1:4-6
      • Harlot = Apostate church/religion Isaiah 1:21-27; Jeremiah 3:1-3; 6-9
      • Heads = Major powers/rulers/governments Revelation 17:3, 9, 10

      As for the day = year principle, it is quite well known. Here is a link for it.
      http://www.bibleprophecytruth.com/topics/mediaviewer.aspx?IT=VID&IID=294&LNG=en

      I’m surprised you’ve never heard of it. Without it the last “Week” of Daniel, known as the tribulation would only last 7 days, not 7 years, so you have been using the principle without even realizing it.

      And your logic that ancient Babylon still exists today as Iraq is silly. Of course the land is still in use today. The prophecy is about the empires, not the land. And using your logic, Rome still exists as the EU which is more like an empire than is Iraq. And Daniel actually discusses the four empires of the statue of CH 2 as being replaced by new conquerors. It is the history of the biblical world. Kingdoms came and went. They aren’t all supposed to be around when the prophecy is read by you.

      I’m afraid that the entire Daniel / John prophecy is for people like you. Those who accept the pagan practices of the first four kingdoms such a Roman Sun worship. You probably also practice the pagan festivals of Christmas and Easter (Saturnalia and Ishtar) and maybe even plan to celebrate the birth of the Roman God cupid on Valentines day.
      Believe me, Jesus will straighten all of this out when he returns and he will have none of it in his millenial church. The sooner you come to realize this the sooner will finally understand the purpose of the prophecy. Its not written for the Muslims, it was written for you and me.
      I hope you will give the matter further thought. You are not home free and you won’t be saved by the rapture. The truth will set you free.

      • James,
        I did miss quote you, but you are still wrong, and so is the chart you show. Notice some of the errors in the list:
        • Woman, Pure = True Church Jeremiah 6:2; 2 Corinthians 11:2; Ephesians 5:23-27
        This is false: in Je 6:2 the daughter of Zion is not the church, but Jerusalem, vs 6. The word woman is not found in II Co 6:2, nor is the word woman found in Eph 5; The church is pictured in Scripture as a wife and bride, but not a woman! Every wife and bride is a woman, but every woman is not a wife or bride; the church is NEVER referred to as a woman! Israel is referred to as a woman.
        • Woman, Corrupt = Apostate church Ezk. 16:15-58; 23:2-21; Hos. 2:5; 3:1; Rev. 14:4
        Jerusalem is the whore and harlot in the above verses in Ezekiel 16, not a church; in Hosea, his wife, a whore, is a type of Israel, not Jerusalem, as in Ezekiel 16. Hosea was told to marry Gomer, a whore, so God could Prophesy against Israel which Gomer typified. Again, in Re 14:4 it is talking about the 144,000 who were not defiled by women.
        My brother, these are gross errors! They are inexcusable! I don’t know where you found this website.
        The lists above has very serious misrepresentations of the truth; if you knew the Scriptures you should be able to pick a number of them out quite readily. Besides the two I have just pointed out as being fallacious, notice these colors, and metals;
        Gold represents deity.
        Brass represents judgment.
        Blue represents heaven.
        Red represents the blood of Jesus, that cleanses sin, not sin.
        Black represents sin.
        It is not my point to go through this whole list; it does have some that are right.
        My brother, you need to be discerning; by the way, is this list compiled by the 7th Day Adventists by any chance?

  35. James,
    Another problem with your theory is that you say the RC church is the whore of Rev 17, and also the beast. It can’t be both; the whore rides the beast in Rev 17 they are two different entities.
    You also forget that Islam speaks like a dragon; note the following:
    The Koran’s antichrist utterances:
    –Surah IV (18) “The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary was only the Messenger of God, and His Word that He committed to Mary, and a spirit from Him.”
    –Surah V (19) “The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a Messenger; Messengers before him passed away; his mother was a just woman; they both ate food. Behold, how We make clear signs to them; then behold, how they perverted are!”
    –Surah VI (20) “The Creator of the heavens and the earth — how should He have a Son, seeing that He has no consort, and He created all things, and He has knowledge of everything?”
    –Surah IX (21) “The Jews say, ‘Ezra is the Son of God;’ the Christians say, ‘The Messiah is the Son of God.’ That is the utterance of their mouths, confirming with the unbelievers before them.”
    –Surah X (22) “They [the Christians] say, ‘God has taken to Him a son.’ Glory be to Him! He is All-sufficient; to Him belongs all that is in the heavens and in the earth; you have no authority for this. what, so you say concerning God that you know not? Say: ‘Those who forge against God falsehood shall not prosper. Some enjoyment in this world; then unto Us they shall return; then We shall let them taste the terrible chastisement, for that they were unbelievers [in Mohammed and the Koran].'”
    –Surah XVII (23) “Praise belongs to God, who has not taken to Him a son.”
    –Surah XIX (24) “And they say, ‘The All-merciful has taken unto Himself a son’ You have indeed advanced something hideous! The heavens are well-nigh rent of it and the earth split asunder, and the mountains well-nigh fall down crashing for they have attributed to the All-merciful a son; and it behooves not the All-merciful to take a son.”
    –Surah XXIII (25) “God has not taken to Himself any son.”
    –Surah XXV (26) “He has not taken to Him a son.”
    –Surah XXXVII (27) “Is it not of their own calumny that they say, ‘God has begotten?’ They are truly liars.”

    • M.R. Boehm,

      It cannot be Islam because the beast that ‘And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.’ … is the same beast that … ‘And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, …
      And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by [the means of] those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast …
      And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.’

      I don’t think Islam has that power.
      Islam is just a misled… ‘blind’ group of men.
      They are not the only who are blind and misled.
      In fact I think that anyone who says they see and understand are blind because they they say they see.
      Let Jesus be your eyes so you may truly see. Because without Him we are all blind.
      And we know what happens when the blind lead the blind don’t we?

      • Abigail,
        Thank you for your comments!
        I didn’t say the second beast out of the earth is Islam, but it would have to be connected with Islam. He is a false prophet, and Islam is full of them!
        Do you think the Pope has power to call fire down from heaven?
        Whoever it is, he will have satanic power; his mission is to deceive the lost world.

        • There are many many false prophets. The whole world is full of them.
          Every church has its own.
          This is who it is. Clear and simple.
          And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him
          Therefore rejoice, [ye] heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
          The devil … not a man, not a pope, not anyone one else but the devil that old serpent, that GREAT DRAGON … the devil.
          Do you believe that Jesus came to destroy the devil?
          Your adversary is the devil.
          And many will wonder whose name are not written in the book of life.
          They will be amazed by this being THE DEVIL.

        • During the crusades the soldiers of the pope stormed Islamic strongholds using flaming tar balls thrown over the walls by catapults.
          There is your fire from the sky.
          And the end -time pope (Peter the Roman) will be possessed by the devil. He will indeed have satanic power.

          • Do not ridicule the Holy scriptures.
            ‘And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men.’
            Doesn’t sound like some tar balls to me.

    • The Vatican is the beast kingdom – the second beast that came up out of the Holy Roman Empire. It is now a certified nation with a seat at the UN. There is a church (Roman Catholic) that rides on this kingdom – the woman (whore) that rides the beast.

      I have read the Koran and I’m familiar with it’s blasphemous nature. But now imagine that the pope began to accept some of these Islamic principles in order to appease Islamic terrorists that threatened to bomb the Vatican. And imagine that these practices were also accepted by many churches throughout the United States and around the world.

      Now which of the two religions do you think God would be most concerned about – the Muslims or his own church?

      Maybe now you can se my point. There is much residual paganism in the modern Christian churches, especially the catholic church. Revelation was not written for Muslims, so why is it in our bible?. It must be for and about us. But it so scares most of us we want to believe it is all about our enemies, so we skew our interpretation to try to prove it. If we do this we are only cutting our own throats.

      Let’s be careful out there folks. (HSB 12:22)

      • James,
        It doesn’t matter if the Vatican is classified as a state, and accepted into the UN; that is common knowledge to those who study Bible prophecy. How many Islamic states are in the UN? The UN is practically controlled by radical islam, as are many European governments.
        Being a religious state, and being in the UN is not a qualification of the beast of Revelation, nor an identifying trait of the beast.
        The Roman Catholic church was never associated with the true churches; Jesus didn’t start the Roman Catholic church. Have you ever read, The Trail of Blood, Following the Christians down Through the Centuries (through its martyrs)?
        Much of church history was written by the Catholics; those whom they call heretics, who were tortured, beaten, burned at the stake, drowned, etc. etc. because they wouldn’t renounce Christ, and submit to Catholic dogma, were actually the true Christians, martyred just as the apostles were by false religionists.
        No, the Revelation was not written for Muslims; it was written for true believers, to reveal truth, and to reveal the true identity of the beast, that we, upon whom the ends of the age have come, might know truth, and discern error.
        To say that the Vatican is the beast kingdom is, to use your words, a skewed interpretation, to say the least.
        Tell me what the Vatican has to do with Israel? All end time Bible prophecy revolves around Israel; no end time prophecy could be fulfilled, until Israel was in her land. The Vatican is nowhere near Israel; the Vatican is not at war with Israel; the Vatican hasn’t risen out of the sea of humanity; Islam has; Islam will never accept anything from the Vatican.

  36. Hi Marianne,
    I did not state that “Trade” was the “Beast”, “The Beast” that has a “Figure head” in the Secretary General, is the U.N.
    As I tried to explain, There are MANY “Beasts”, but the “BEAST” that EVERYONE on earth are “WONDERING” after is the U.N.!
    Daniel tells of 3 MAJOR Powers that are TAKEN OVER by this WORLD encompassing power and takes their Sovereignty away, and takes on sovereignty via its REGULATORY Authority in the World Trade Organization! I believe that the Conspiracy in letting us believe that this planet is heating up, and giving them an excuse to have these “Climate Summits” like the last one in Copenhagen, will ultimately lead the WORLD to GIVE this Authority to the U.N. at the 2010/11 Climate Summit, with the THREAT of SANCTIONS via the World Trade Organization [part of the U.N.’s machinery] It is the U.N. that will CALL the shots via the World Court, IMF, World Bank, W.T.O, etc. and the U.N. has already access to most of its member states’ defense forces, so while all of you who are looking to ROME, the U.N. Changes laws in all of the governments, by disarming the civilians, like it did in Australia, and attempting to do in the USA, and has long done in most of the European countries.
    You say that TRADE is NOT the method of getting the Mark of the BEAST to be accepted by every individual?
    Rev.13:16. And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
    17. And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
    Does this sound like a CHURCH or RELIGIOUS power that can implement such financial measures, and BAN anyone from TRADING without this MARK?
    I just hope that all of those trusting “Christian” brothers out there are not COMPLETELY mislead by the PROPAGANDA on how GOOD the U.N. is for the World.

    • Dear Olef.
      The verses you quote ‘that no man might buy or sell’ and ‘he causeth all’ and
      ‘ both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond’ do you not notice that …
      1 – ‘He’ singular.
      2 – “all’ implies all men.
      Without distinction of greatness or
      distinction of smallness.
      Without distinction of riches or
      poverty
      Without distinction of free or
      slave.
      It does not sound like a group of MEN sitting around a table at the U.N.
      I say this because SCRIPTURES says … ‘ALL’ … He caused ALL
      should even move without ‘his’ name.

    • Olaf,
      Some good thoughts! Did you see the DVD circulating in Town Hall meetings, The Fall of the Republic? I watched the one by Lord Moncton, sp? on the Copenhagen Climat change conference; it was pretty scary!

      • Did you know that the religion tied to the U.N. is the New Age? Did you know that New Age is the same as Freemasonry, Witchcraft, Satanism and Theosophy, with a more friendly “christian” language?
        Did you know that their masonic Christ, Maitreya, who comes in his own words for all religions, is already on the world scene?
        The U.N.’s publisher is Lucis Trust, formerly Lucifer Publishing Company.
        Bailey (Theosophic/New Ager), Blavatsky (Satanist) and Albert Pike (mopst famous Freemason) are all tied together and are idols to the most powerful Elite, the Illuminati. Familys like Rothschild and Rockefeller who own appr. 100-1000 trillion dollar and 80 % of all the world or more are the highest in th ranks of the Illuminati. With their wealth they control through owning, blackmailing, corruption, leaders in every branch and every place of this planet.
        Their agenda is to bring about the false christ, the new world order, the secular name of the reign of AC.

  37. I have a question for all the folks that believe that Revelation is all about the world financial system.
    Almost all prophecy is preceded by a previous event – a “type” if you will. Just where in the bible is there such a precedence?
    When Jesus was shown the Roman coin he remarked “Render therefore unto Caesar that which is Caesar’s and to God what is God’s.“ So it doesn’t seem that God is much concerned with monetary issues, especially on a global scale.
    The purpose of the prophecy is in there somewhere only it doesn’t have anything to do with world currency or charge cards.

    • If I am not mistaken, our present banking system was invented in Babylon by the Jews during the Babyloinian captivity.

    • And while I’m asking, what about the Mark of the Beast? Is there a “type” for it in church history? If so, was it about money or something else, like God’s laws?
      Anyone?

  38. James, You say ‘If the whole world will wonder after the beast I doubt it will be a snake.’
    You are always mocking what the scriptures says. There is no ‘if’.
    Scripture says in the book of REVELATION….
    The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

    The beast is a beast
    He comes from the bottomless pit.
    He is the old serpent
    He is the Great dragon
    He is the devil
    And ‘ and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world’

    Further more The Book of Revelation says about the book of REVELATION …
    ‘And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.’

    The early church and its ways could be called ‘the forgotten church’.
    Without the Spirit of God men are blind and deft.

    • Amen.

    • If the beast is a literal creature how will he speak great blasphemies or be worshipped or make war with the saints? And if revelation is a continuation of Daniel, then shouldn’t the use of the word “beast” be used consistently?
      How will you recognize the beast when you see him, assuming he is not here yet? If the beast is Satan, how can they both be thrown into the pit?
      I can’t get a handle on your interpretation. It is too mystical.

  39. hello

    I went to bed at 11:30 pm, and did not see any of this until this morning. You all must be night owls.

    comment notes:

    Mike:

    -Jerusalem is not the only city with 7 hills. So is Isantabul and Cincinnati.

    https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/revelation-17-who-is-the-woman-who-sits-on-7-hills/

    -Saturday is the original Sabbath, established by God. The Romans changed it to Sunday, which they should not have done.

    -You say the Jews invented the current monetary system during the Babylonian captivity. How do you figure they did that, considering they were in slavery there, and living in poverty?

    -Being an Adventist, in itself, is not wrong. It is a denomination with certain practices and beliefs like other denominations. Some beliefs I agree with them, some things, I do not see it the same way.

    James:

    -Usually a woman was represented by natural Israel, but mostly in the OT.

    -The church is described as the bride of Christ…which is female…but the woman in Rev 12 includes both the unrepentant church and natural Israel, which escape to the wilderness during the tribulation.

    -Re: fire from heaven – the crusades are over. we are talking about the tribulation, so the beast description has to match current groups and personalities.

    • Jerusalem may not be the only city on seven hills, but it is the city that all of the Bible is about; the capital of Israel; kings David, and Solomon reigned from there; at the second coming of LORD/Christ, His feet will touch on the Mt. of Olives which is directly east of jerusalem, Zec 14:4; in Ezk 47 the river of God will flow out of the temple of LORD in Jerusalem, through the valley made in the middle of the Mt of Olives, made When God’s feet touch the mountain Olivet, which waters will flow into the dead sea.
      Jesus will rule the world from the Jerusalem on the throne of David. It is also synonymous with Zion.
      Jerusalem is also the sight of the great earthquake in Rev 11:13.
      I still am not settled on whether Jerusalem is the whore of Rev 17 or not; it does have much more merit Scripturally, as I mentioned above, much more than the RC church or the Vatican, which is not mentioned at all in the Bible.
      This is also a very important point of Hermeneutics (rules of interpretation of the Bible); if you have to go outside of the Bible for the proof & support of your theory, it is more than likely a false theory. The Bible interprets the Bible! All of the symbolism in the Revelation is gathered from the O.T. If the places in your theory aren’t in the O.T. your theory is incorrect.

    • Regarding the Sabbath, there is much confusion; I would like to make a few comments about it.
      First off, in Ex 31:12ff LORD (Jehovah) says that the Sabbath was a sign and a covenant between God and Israel for ever, vss 13 & 16, 17.
      12 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign (a sign) between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you…
      16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. (perpetual covenant)
      17 It is a sign (a sign) between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
      We see that the Sabbath was for Israel, a sign and Covenant between them and LORD, forever.
      When Jesus started His church, it was not an extension of Israel; Eph 2:11ff, tells us that He made of the Jew and Gentile one new man, and one new body, the church. Christ broke down the wall of separation between the two.
      13 But now in Christ Jesus ye (Gentiles) who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
      14 For He is our peace, who hath made both one (Jew & Gentile), and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
      15 Having abolished in His flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in Himself of twain one new man, so making peace; (notice Jesus abolished the Law, not the moral law, but the ceremonial law)
      16 And that He might reconcile both unto God in one body (the church) by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: (this is the true church, not the Catholic church).
      17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off (Gentiles), and to them that were nigh (Jews).
      18 For through Him we both (Jew & Gentile) have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
      Now, we have established that the Jew & Gentile are one new man, and one new body, the church. When Jesus rose from the dead, He established a precedent for His new creation, the church; a new day of worship.
      Jesus rose from the dead on the first day of the week, and He consistently met with His disciples for worship, on the first day of the week; the Lord’s day, Rev 1:10, I, John, was in the Spirit on the Lord’s day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet.
      The Apostle Paul also followed this precedent, as is shown in I Co 16 below, and in Acts 20; it is also shown in these verses that this was the practice of the early churches, that is meeting on Sunday, the first day of the week.
      Notice the following verses that all show that the early church met on the first day of the week, and that Jesus rose on the first day of the week.
      Mt 28:1, In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
      Mr 16:2, And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.
      Mr 16:9, Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom He had cast seven devils.
      Lu 24:1, Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them.
      Joh 20:1, The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
      Joh 20:19, Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
      Ac 20:7, And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
      1Co 16:2, Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
      So we see that the disciples of Christ assembled on the first day of the week, Sunday; they broke bread, and they took an offering, and they had preaching.
      Sunday worship is not the mark of the beast, as some teach.

      • Hi brother Boehm,
        Sunday worship is okay so far, its okay to come together with siblings to eat, break bread…
        but in my opinion its wrong not to keep the commandment of resting from friday sunset to saturday sunset.

      • I do not think, just because certain events occurred on the first day of the week, that God had approved a new Sabbath.

        I am sure they broke bread, fellowship-ed, and worshiped on other days as well.

        Some of the events you described occurred on the first day, because the 7th day as a day of rest, the people would have been in the synagogue for sabbath, and the activities would have been forbidden,

      • M.R. Boehm,

        It is truly too bad for you if you do not keep the Holy Sabbath. I do not belong to any church but I keep the Holy Sabbath Holy.
        I say it is too bad for you because you are missing out from God.
        The Sabbath was made for man … Jesus did most if not all the healing miracles on the Sabbath … check it out.
        Now Jesus is God healing on the Sabbath.
        The Sabbath is a place of refuge, a place of rest, a hiding place from the world. There is much to say about this day commanded by God.
        But for you to know it … to truly know it you must enter into a covenant with God and say to Him … I will from this day forth keep your commandments and repent for not having kept them. Let not The Divil blind you on this my friend.
        If you do what I just told you … God Himself will prove His word to you.
        It is all between you and God and if you are sincere (no need to tempt God)
        He knows all things! But if you are true with Him on this commandment you will be blessed above your imagination.
        Mind you the Devil will also know you. But that is okay since the living God will be with you.
        I used to find the day of rest a little bit ‘boring’ … now I run to it and to Him who waits there for me.
        Enough said.

      • The sabbath is about rest, not going to church (read the 4th commandment). Sunday worship will not be the mark per se, it will be forbiddance of sabbath rest. (Read the council of Laodecea – the first mark of the beast). It will be repeated.

    • All the Jew in captivity were not slaves; Daniel wasn’t, nor were his companions, Azariah, Hananiah, and Mishael.
      Da 1:3, And the king spake unto Ashpenaz the master of his eunuchs, that he should bring certain of the children of Israel, and of the king’s seed, and of the princes;
      4 Children in whom was no blemish, but well favoured, and skilful in all wisdom, and cunning in knowledge, and understanding science, and such as had ability in them to stand in the king’s palace, and whom they might teach the learning and the tongue of the Chaldeans…6 Now among these were of the children of Judah, Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah:
      Daniel and his three friends were only some of those whom the king selected.
      Ezekiel, also was a prophet in the captivity, and preformed the office of a prophet. Jeremiah. writing from Jerusalem, told them in captivity to build houses and marry wives for they would be there for a while; so it appears that they lived normal lives in Babylon.
      Nehemiah waited the King; not in the sense of a slave, but as a man of position, maybe not as high as Daniel, and his three friends, who were all rulers.
      Je 28:4 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, unto all that are carried away captives, whom I have caused to be carried away from Jerusalem unto Babylon;
      5 Build ye houses, and dwell in them; and plant gardens, and eat the fruit of them;
      6 Take ye wives, and beget sons and daughters; and take wives for your sons, and give your daughters to husbands, that they may bear sons and daughters; that ye may be increased there, and not diminished.
      A preacher that I know here in Rapid City, did a 300 page study on Bible prophecy, and on the Jews; in his research, he found that our present banking system was developed by the Jew during the Babylonian captivity.
      It has been about 18 years ago since I read his study; it was excellent! I learned some good things from him on Bible prophecy; I know of no one who understands prophecy better than he. He believes Jerusalem is the whore of Rev 17.
      About the 7th Day Adventists; they are a group with some very questionable doctrine; some adhere to the Bible better than others; I know they don’t believe in hell; they are in the Appendix of Roger Martin’s great book, The Kingdom of the Cults; he has a 72 page chapter on them titled, The Puzzle of the Seventh Day Adventists. It has been years since I read it. My missionary colleague, in Nepal wrote a book on Seventh Day Adventists. Ellen G. White was their main prophet.
      Some of them teach salvation by faith through grace, and repentance from sin, and others teach a works salvation through keeping the Law of Moses, and keeping the seventh day Sabbath. The latter is false teaching.

      • Ok. so a few Jews were able to get positions as servants (step above slaves) in the king’s court. They would have been the most educated. Why isn’t this great financial system mentioned?

        There is no evidence that Jews developed the current monetary system in Babylon.

        I think the preacher from Rapid city knew nothing about the history of economics, and nothing about the Jews. He was most likely an anti-semite.

        If the had this system IN Babylon, they would have continued it after they returned. There is no evidence of either.

        Even if a monetary system had been developed in Babylon, as in other cultures, it did not mean the “evil, greedy Jews” had anything to do with it.

  40. James,
    I want to apologize for being over zealous in some of my rebuttals to your argument, and just being plain unchristian; you have every right to your every belief, and I have no right to speak in an unchristian manner. So please forgive me, and accept my apology; it was a little late for me last; but that’s no excuse.

    • Hey, there’s nothing wrong with a lively discussion. Especially on such and important topic. I tend to become zealous as well and sometimes I use humor that people take the wrong way. Basically we are trying to save each other’s immortal souls so sometimes you need to shout – like a preacher at a revival meeting.
      Its all cool, no sweat.

  41. Jesus came to fulfill the Law – Paul spends quite a lot of time in Romans and Galatians shooting down legalism and living under the Law. Col.2 and Rom. 14 both shoot down the “day you worship on ” thing – Paul specifically says that one man deems one day above another, while another deems all the days as the Lord’s. I do agree that the RC church and Vatican will play a huge role – but I am not donvinced all is as the expositor above says.

  42. Two days after the Haiti Quake Benjamin Creme makes this announcement on January
    the 14/10
    You must watch this.
    http://www.share-international.org/av/v_maitreya_emergence.htm

  43. And here is the interview with Maitreya ‘the prince to come’ which occurred in the U.S.
    the day of the ‘Port au Prince’ quake. How befitting for a prince to enter upon the world stage through such a disaster as the port suffered!

    • this is so silly. A guy in a Jesus costume comes, and says he is the master of masters? sorry…I did not see any star….it is hard to believe that people would fall for such a kook. Who is raj patel? just a commentator? Dos he have blue eye shadow on? he does not talk about anything that others do not discuss. Raj is not the Maitreya was was photographed years ago…different face, and he is too young. Benjamin Creme has been on LSD too long.

      • laughing…..this (Raj patel you tube video) was posted in Feb 2010 by Abigail and then I posted it AGAIN about a week ago like it had “never been seen before”…..you must grow weary of all the “repeats”….HA! 🙂

    • Seems to fit.. the Mahdi prophecy is astounding..
      has someone connection to the Muslim community??
      time will tell.. very soon!
      Once the restrainer (prob. Angel Michael) is out the way and the beast loosened from the pit, the AC will be overshadowed and change dramatically in behaviour.

      • Is Rome The BEAST ??? that is the subject of this page.
        So … Rome(vatican) being its own Nation cannot be the beast.
        The beast of REVELATION is 1 individual.

        • The four beasts of Daniel were empires. He says that they are “Kings”
          The last beast of Daniel has ten horns of which three are plucked up, leaving seven. These he also calls kings.
          The first beast of Rev. 17 has ten horns which he says are kings. They are the same kingdom and not a person.
          Have you ever seen a person with ten more persons (kings) on their head? Is that what you are expecting? Will the work of the devil be so crazy and obvious? How could the world be fooled by such a creature.
          If you insist that the beast is literally a person then the ten kings on his head must also be literal. If you say the kings are a metaphor, then maybe neither term is literal, which is my point.
          Please discuss…

        • Amen again Abigail!
          The Bible says Satan brings the beast out of the bottomless pit; actually it says the beast ascends out of the bottomless pit, Rev 11:7; 17:8.
          He is a man who lived before; he comes back from the dead (the pit); he is empowered by Satan, Rev 13:2.
          He is also the head of the beast kingdom too; Rev 13:2b and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
          It says the dragon gave him his seat (of authority), he has to be in some nation; the Bible doesn’t say, per say, what nation, that is it doesn’t just come right out and tell us, but it does give us a lot of clues, so we can figure it out!
          Neither Rome, nor the Vatican are named in the Bible! Many countries are named in the Bible though, and these that are have always been the enemies of Israel.
          Psalm 83:1, A Song or Psalm of Asaph.
          1. Keep not thou silence, O God: hold not thy peace, and be not still, O God.
          2 For, lo, thine enemies make a tumult: and they that hate thee have lifted up the head.
          3 They have taken crafty counsel against thy people, and consulted against thy hidden ones.
          4 They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance.
          5 For they have consulted together with one consent: they are confederate against thee:
          6 The tabernacles of Edom (south Jordan), and the
          Ishmaelites (north Saudi Arabia); of Moab (central Jordan), and the Hagarenes (north Saudi Arabia);
          7 Gebal (in Lebanon, Hezbola), and Ammon (north Jordan), and Amalek (Sinai Peninsula); the Philistines (Gaza/Hammas) with the inhabitants of Tyre (in Lebanon);
          8 Assur/Assyria (Iraq) also is joined with them: they have holpen
          the children of Lot (Ammon & Moab). Selah….
          12 Who said, Let us take to ourselves the houses of God in possession.
          13 O my God, make them like a wheel; as the stubble before the wind.
          14 As the fire burneth a wood, and as the flame setteth the mountains on fire;
          15 So persecute them with thy tempest, and make them afraid with thy storm.
          16 Fill their faces with shame; that they may seek thy name, O LORD.
          17 Let them be confounded and troubled for ever; yea, let them be put to shame, and perish:
          18 That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth. (God’s name here is said to be Jehovah) I’m not a J.W.

          • The bible doesn’t mention Rome?
            Give us a break, it is all over the new testament. Who do you think crucified Jesus? There is even a Book of Romans. John could not mention Rome by name since they were his captors so he was forced to obscure the references to Rome so as to fool his captors.
            Guess he fooled you too.

            • James,
              Let me rephrase what I said for so you can understand my meaning; I was speaking in the context of End Time Bible Prophecy, and particularly about the beast of Revelation.
              The countries relating to end time prophecy are all named; they are spelled out; Rome is not among them the names named!

  44. 1 John : 2 : 18 children iit is the last hour ; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrist have arisen; from this we know it is the last hour. 22 Who is the lier but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.
    1 John : 4 : 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; and this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that is coming, and now it is already in the world.
    2 John 1 : 7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.

  45. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming
    [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
    And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
    ***And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:***
    That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

  46. Hey James, i have already done that..
    its up to you to actually read what i wrote.. but much better would be to ask the Lord for the true knowledge, to make yourself free from pride, to love the truth and only the truth (who is Jesus), to ask acc. to James 1 for wisdom (which is the essence of the holy spirit, google shekina/sophia).

    The second beast is the false prophet:

    20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast ALIVE into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

    Note, the word “alive” shows again, the beasts must be a personage.

    • At 2:38 minutes into this film … Paul Washer says something that IS NOT TRUE!.
      Jesus never said you must hate …. more than Me. How stupid is that?
      Incredible!!!
      Pay close attention my friend … Jesus said ‘ Mat 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.’

      This is the same as saying ‘Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God [is] one LORD:
      And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.’

      I am so sick of people twisting the Word of GOD!!!

      • It will cost you everything??? Incredible!!
        Remember when people hate you that The Savior died for that person!
        It will cost you Eternity if you do not willingly bow your knee to God.
        The things of this world do not compare with HIS Promises.
        The blind still lead the blind and some go as far as putting stumbling blocks in the path of one who is blind.
        I am disgusted with liars!

      • abigail

        this is where the “hate” quote came from:

        Luk 14:26 If any [man] come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

        • More than Me?

          • This is Paul Washer’s quote:
            “You must hate … your own Father. Mother. Brother . Sister
            And Even Your OWN Life … More Than ME.”
            That is a far cry from Luke 14:26
            And that is TWISTED!
            Thank You.

  47. This interview occurred January 12/10
    ‘The value of nothing’ is a book published in January by this person and …
    Meitreya?

  48. I think he is just a guy who wants to sell his book, and make a lot of money.

    Illegal immigrants who work on tomato farms are not slaves either. 😦

    his guy is really stuck on himself.

    • Could be? I don’t know? Wasn’t there a french guy who came to your blog claiming to be Maitreya, just a few days ago?
      I can’t remember on which page but he addressed you in french and you replied in french?
      Whatever, I don’t know anything about this guy nor about Maitreya … nor B. Creme …
      but I do know ‘they will not come from nothing but everywhere.’

      • That was someone who said he was the Imam Mahdi. He is waiting for his 40th birthday, so he can “come out of hiding.” He is 32 now.

        • See I told you I know nothing.
          Maitreya, Mahdi, and so forth … 🙂
          When the Savior appears he will not need ‘links’ to get His message through.
          Every eye shall behold Him.

  49. Let us keep on topic on this page. (Rome as beast)

    Maitreya is over here:

    https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/maitreya-–-lucifer-is-back-already/

  50. Hey Silvan,
    You agree with me then that the second beast (or it’s leader anyway) will be the false prophet.
    The beast is the Vatican and the false prophet is the Pope. Since he is using the symbol of a beast for the Vatican, he can describe it as a living creature, as is the Pope. Even the so-called “lake of fire” may only be a metaphor for death. You have to concentrate on the big picture, not small translations, especially in a book so clouded in mystery.

  51. Excuse me James but someone has to be the ‘Great refuter’ here … :0 as you also like to call yourself.
    Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

    Notice here in this verse … ‘ And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet’ The beast and with him (singular) the false prophet (singular)

    And then in Revelation a little further down we find ‘And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever’.

    And still further down a group is added with the dvil, the beast, and the false prophet … as it says ‘And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.’

    What is metaphoric about this? Nothing!
    The verses are very direct and there is not found a cloud of mystery in this at all.
    Man calls a mystery only what man does not believe.
    It is like this …. lets go out in the Universe and find the particle of truth when it is just so near you.
    Even in your mouth!

    • Abigail, It is easy to use semantics to say that something is NOT, but before you throw out something you should have some idea of what it IS, so if you have the time, please tell us all who the beast is. Also tell us if the beast is here yet. Or has it come and gone.
      Has any of the book of Revelation happened yet?
      You see, if I’m wrong I need to know what the truth is so I know what to look for.
      In my interpretation, most of revelation can be verified in history books. If I’m right, God has already proven to the world that he is LORD of all time and he knew the future at the time of John.
      I will be very disappointed if it turns out that there is yet no truth in Revelation and that we must trust that it will all come to pass in the coming years.
      I want to know what to expect. Otrherwise the prophecy is worthless.
      So please fill us in on a few details and maybe we can put a true picture of the future together.

      • Dear James, I used to think like you. The Lord is a whirlwind and He removed some of my assumptions. I too thought at one time … Rome/vatican to be the beast. I do not have all the answers but this I know… When in a holy vision much information is given in seconds and with one frame, and with one picture in this frame. And then at the same instant the word of God is given. There one understands the given perfectly.
        It is not easy to convey revelation in words… because revelation is a picture. And the word is added to it or is part of it or is the living frame of a living testimony. Revelation of Heaven and of the things of Heaven are so far above our earth attached mind and experience so thus remains concealed.
        I may write down words to the best of my intellect but I doubt that these words are living since I am trying to explain something of a heavenly nature in a earthly format … I cannot give you or any one the living revelation of God and the Kingdom of God and all that this consists of.
        The beast is as John says ‘ which was and is not and yet is’.
        It is given this way because in truth he has no power. And yet here the beast rules kings and any who does not have his name written in the book of life.
        The beast knows the saints and persecutes them then and before and now, yet he never succeeds truly because The Lord always leads away from the devil.
        Resist the devil and he will flee from you.
        Until a person is born again and filled with Spirit of God he never sees the beast and remains in the dark.
        But when a person belongs entirely to God then the person’s eyes are opened and at times it becomes hard to distinguish between the realm of the Spirit and the realm of the earth.
        In other words darkness cannot hide.
        Maybe I should write a book … 🙂 but even if I did I cannot give you the experience nor can I give you the interpretation of revelation.
        I can only try to point away from your own conceived ideas so that The Spirit of The Living God can give you the knowledge and the understanding you seek.
        I can safely say this you will not find it in the history books nor will you find it in another persons’ interpretation.
        And I can tell you safely that there is NOW right NOW a transferring or a translation occurring from the kingdom of darkness to the kingdom of His Glorious Light.
        And I can tell you that soon the mystery of God will be finished.
        And I can tell you the beast is here on the earth.
        But if you would truly see how hideous his true appearance is …

        • Abigail,
          You have said a lot without saying anything. Please don’t try to write a book because it will be ten times harder to understand than Revelation. While you are so sure of the specific meaning of many of the words, it doesn’t seem to help you to understand the verses.
          I don’t know what you are expecting to happen but I’m sure of one thing – if the real prophecy happens, you will not recognize it.
          Time will tell.

          • James, you are very mean to my sister, and utterly arrogant.. do you know what proverbs 16,18 says..
            And- what? You are sure that she will not recognize the beast?? Who are you to say this? She already has seen it!
            This all just seems to be a quiz game for you.. with no relation to reality.. a little bit fun and pushing up your self esteem, looking who has the most intellect.. it’s all about YOU, not bringing glory to the Lamb, who is the Truth!
            I doubt you got a sense for the spiritual realm..nor a sense for the holiness of Gods word!
            You will fall very deep if you do not repent from your pride. Make Jesus Christ the Lord of every second, thought and deed of your life. Strife for entering through the narrow gate!

          • You say:
            “I want to know what to expect. Otrherwise the prophecy is worthless.”
            I can hear your “I” very loud.
            James, we are commanded to live by faith, not by sight! Do you have true faith?
            You think, the prophecy would be worthless, if it is not understandable (at least by you) before it happens??
            Again, you show such a disrespect for Gods word…
            All the prophecy given by God is for the purpose of HIS glory!
            And somewhere in the bible was written, that prophecy is given that one can recognize the fulfillment AFTER it has happened!
            You showed your true face, Mr. Giordano.

          • The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

            Again James there is no ‘if’!!
            Every word of God will be fulfilled and I am afraid for you …

        • Hey abigail,

          just read this….so what your trying to say is that the Papacy is not the Beast? For what it is worth, I do believe that G-D showed you something and I understand what your saying in that it is difficult to “verbalize” what it is we are shown by the Spirit.

          • Although I have said I would never re-visit … I did.
            And I’ve found you and all the other comments … and Lindsey I laughed so hard.
            Fear not little flock … it is My Father’s Gooood Pleasure to give you The Kingdom!
            We are surely a peculiar people! A Strange people, indeed!
            This reminds of a dream I’ve had a while ago …
            I was, in the dream standing by a wide and slow moving river. This river was muddy and I was surprised to see many people standing therein to about waist high. And so I became curious to what was happening. And as I watched Now and then I would witness the current picking up someone and drifting them away downstream.
            I could see from where I was standing a large turbine with knives like spinning and destroying whatever would get caught therein.
            The people in the water could not see this river size trurbine down stream …
            People just stood by and conversed with each other.
            There was 1 man who would go and rescue whoever had been caught in the current.
            This man had a great love for the people and it was hard work for him to rescue on a continual basis everyone who would be victim to the current of this dirty river.
            Where I stood watching all this was a very very narrow path by the river.
            I had come to this river with a brilliant white towel.
            As I watched I wondered why the kind man who did rescue everyone from the terrible turbine would never bring his rescued friend to the shore but instead in a continuous fashion he would just take them back to where they had previously been standing. With all the love of his heart he did not know how to take the people OUT of this river.
            And so as I stood on the shores watching I heard a voice by my side saying …: ‘ Why would you choose to wash your body in this muddy river and then dry it with the brilliant white towel I have provided for you?’

            Something to think about.

            • help me out abigail…muddy river is…..and the white towel would be grace? the man rescuing everyone is Jesus?

              • The muddy river is the church in the world. The man in the muddy river is a pastor/with a circumcised heart. The towel is my Salvation and the voice by my side is Jesus.

                • I left the “muddy river” years ago…..been looking for another “river” …think I’ll choose to stand on the shore with you and our white towels…:)

    • Amen Abigail!
      Thats good Bible exegesis!
      Again, the Bible means what it says, and says what it means; it doesn’t need to be interpreted so much, as it needs to be believed! Another simple rule of hermeneutics is; if the plain sense makes common sense, seek no other meaning.

  52. Hey Silvan,
    Here is my response to your entry way above:

    Revelation 17
    Listen:
    16And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
    James, when will you finally admit Rome is not the beast?

    First of all, this is beyond my original scope, which was to bring us to present time and show how the prophecy has been fulfilled by history.

    To review my contention,:

    John mentions 8 kings or kingdoms actually, but what are they?

    Well the first four are those of Daniel:

    1; Babylon (Fallen)

    2: Medo-Persia (Fallen)

    3: Greece (Fallen)

    4: Rome (Fallen)

    The last four of John are as follows:

    5: The Holy Roman Empire (Fallen) <———— The first 5 have fallen.

    6: The restored Vatican (Fallen, but revived – beast that was, is not and yet is)

    7: The restored Roman Empire (European Union – Present)

    8: The restored Holy Roman Empire (Future) This will be a joining of the Vatican and the EU.

    While I don’t claim to know how the future will unfold, let me suggest how things might go down, but only as a way to verify that the Beast is Rome.

    I assume you already know the chapter pretty well so I will just highlight my ideas.

    The beast the woman rides has seven heads and ten horns – the same as the first beast of Rev. 13. So this would be the Holy Roman Empire.
    In v.10 he mentions the seven kings – 5 fallen and one to come. The one to come is the revived Roman empire or the EU. The EU is also the 8th – the restored Holy Roman Empire.
    Then v10 talks about ten kings that are to receive power from the 8th king (revived Holy Roman Empire) but just for a short time (it says one hour, but even you can’t think that is a literal hour) They give their power to the beast, which means that some (or maybe all) of the EU countries will support the policies of the church-state power of the restored Holy Roman Empire. (The new/revived beast). They join the apostate church – make war with the lamb.
    But in Rev. 17 God puts it in their hearts to fulfill his will (obey his commandments) and they realize the folly of their ways and come out of the whore church.
    In Rev. 16 it looks like they destroy the Vatican itself since ch18 says that the woman is also ”that great city” referring to the city of seven hills mentioned earlier. It says they will burn her with fire, so goodbye St. Peter’s cathedral I guess.

    So to answer your question, NO I will not admit that Rome is not the beast. If I wasn’t sure before, I certainly am now.

  53. You only are reading what is fitting with your theory.

    How do you explain this verse?

    And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him (the beast), whose names are not written in the book of life…

    Can you see Hindu people in India worshipping the roman empire?
    Me not.

    • Silvan,
      Sorry you don’t like my writing style, or my acerbic sense of humor. Its just the way I try to get my point across. I don’t want to come across as a bible-thumping tent-show minister either. I just want to show the world that God’s word is true and we can see it if we only look carefully.
      And if your sister has seen the beast, why can’t we see it? I would like to know who he is too. If I see him I will change my mind on everything, but I need proof. There’s too much talk out there to just believe something someone says, either on You Tube or not.
      Maybe I shouldn’t even try to change anyone’s mind on the subject. I’ve often told myself, why bother trying to teach others what I’ve learned – let them take their chances in the tribulation. But when judgement day comes I don’t want to explain to Jesus why I just gave up trying to save souls because it was a hassle.
      I don’t expect anyone else to give up either. It must remain a debate until Christ returns. I have been studying Revelation for quite a while and I have researched almost every theory out there. Along the way I have learned many things and changed my mind on several things as my knowledge increased. I keep an open mind an I will listen to anyone’s opinion and weigh it against what I already know and give it additional research if warranted. Yes, I do use my intellect and a scientific approach to my studies.
      I come from a catholic background so you can imagine how hard it was for me to come to my conclusions. I had to completely abandon everything I believed in from a child. If not for my intellectual curiosity I would still marvel after the beast, as does 1.2 BILLION people worldwide. It is not technically the whole world but then I don’t take that phrase literally either.
      The entire planet will never worship the same thing. Never has, never will.
      As for the prophecy being worthless, it will be for some. Remember Noah and Jeremiah who warned of disaster if God’s people failed to repent and follow his laws. No one listened and they either drowned or went into captivity in Babylon. This is the lesson I take for prophecy. It is happening again and the results will be similar. Those who don’t learn the prophecy and heed the words will not make it into the millennium.
      So I shouldn’t have described prophecy as useless, as all prophecy has a purpose, but in the case of Noah for example, it was WASTED. So what I was trying to say that the book of Revelation will be wasted on all those who don’t recognize the beast.
      Anyway, my point is that you shouldn’t tell someone that their belief system is total Crap and that he is doomed by his lack of knowledge, but not have the truth to save him or worse yet tell him you have the truth but you are keeping it to yourself. If that were to happen then yes, the prophecy would be a waste of time for me.
      Wouldn’t you agree?

      • James, the day is soon to be over, my anger is gone, and i want to apologise for being rude.
        Nevertheless, i mean what i wrote, and you should examine yourself very urgently

      • You said:
        “Those who don’t learn the prophecy and heed the words will not make it into the millennium.”

        I doubt that.
        The christians who are filled with Gods spirit, having enough Oil, and who love him, are obedient and
        DO HIS WILL, will be saved.

        • Sorry, I meant those with the mark will not make it. We all agree on that I hope.

        • You also have just made my whole point about Revelation. Those who DO HIS WILL will be saved. His WILL is to obey his commandments. Including the sabbath one. He is trying to tell his churches to abandon the pagan (Babylonian) practices before he returns and has to fix things himself.
          Amen to that.

          • Maybe his will is more than obeying the commandments. I think we have to be lead by his spirit every time, so that we do what he wants us to do..

            Yahweh has just one church, the body of Christ, consisting of every single spiritually born again believer.

            Our body is his Temple, and Yeshua is the Highpriest in the Temple, the mediator to the father, and so is HE, his spirit in us.

            Can you feel HIM ?

  54. dear James,

    I saw one point lost in this discussion.

    It says in Rev 11:7 and 17:8 that the beast ascends out of the bottomless pit.

    If Rome is the beast, when was it ever in the bottomless pit?

    Same question for the Vatican, since it is part of the beast in this post.

    Food for thought.

    • Well Marianne,
      I just did a bunch of research on the term “bottomless pit.”
      I did not do it myself by the way, I checked out websites of a few experts on the matter.
      Most agree that it is the realm of Appolyon, the leader of fallen angels being held prisoner in a place in the underworld. It is a world of demons and henchmen of Satan. No one indicated it was an actual hole in the ground.
      So anything that comes from the pit is the work of the devil. It will be anti-christ, blasphemous and it will try to destroy the true saints. It will try to get them to reject God’s word and to reject or change his laws. Basically anything that “comes from” the pit will be based on evil principles.
      This fits perfectly with an apostate church, the Vatican and the Holy Roman Empire.

  55. Good point Marianne!
    I did want to address that again. In our quest to understand the beast, we must distinguish between the beast man, the leader, who is said to ascend out of the bottomless pit, in Rev 11:7, and Rev 17:8;
    11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
    17:8, The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
    The other aspect of the beast is Rev 13:1;
    13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
    2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
    This beast has seven heads, and is the Leopard beast of Daniel 7; this beast rises out of the sea of humanity; the seas cover what? 3/4 of the earths surface? this beast rises up all over the world. To my knowledge the only beastly entity that is rising up all over the world, threatening governments; beheading innocent believers; doing suicide bombings; bombing train stations, and bus stations, and planes; the world trade center (3000 innocent died); the Marine barracks in Yemen (over 200 innocents died); hijacking planes, Etc. Etc. and 20 years of atrocities; it is the beast of Radical, antichrist, satanically inspired, religion of death, Islam. it isn’t Rome.
    Is it a coincidence that the countries that composed the Leopard kingdom of Alexander, are all the Islamic countries that surround Israel
    Is it a coincidence that these same countries were Israel’s enemies in the OT?
    The beast man will be someone like Alexander the Great; he will ascend out of the bottomless pit; that means he once lived on earth for him to be in the pit; will it be Mohammed that Satan bring back? or one of the leaders of the Ottoman Empire?
    Time will tell! Until then, May God continue to guide you into all truth in His inspired Word, by His Spirit of truth. God Bless!

    • M.R.
      I think the radical Muslims are just being used to further the agenda of the New World Order, the reign of the masonic/new age christ.

      Here are some sites iam currently reading, though there are much better ones:
      http://www.scribd.com/doc/18652505/Specifics-of-the-New-World-Order-Complete-Report
      http://www.lovethetruth.com/new_world_order.htm
      http://www.conspiracyarchive.com/NewAge/Creme_Maitreya.htm

    • You need to check your facts. The leopard was Daniel‘s third beast and had four heads, representing the four generals of Alexander that took over the kingdom when he died.
      It was the fourth beast of Daniel that has seven heads and ten horns. This was the empire that defeated Greece.

      Dan 7:3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

      Dan 7:17 These great beasts, which are four, [are] four kings, [which] shall arise out of the earth.

      His vision showed beasts rising from the sea but his explanation is that they are kingdoms rising from the earth. You need to use the explanation and not try to interpret the dream yourself.

      Finally, I don‘t think the prophecy is about political powers or even about Israel. God’s new Israel (spiritual Israel) is the church and just as Jeremiah’s prophecy was an attempt to restore God’s laws into ancient Israel, this prophecy is to restore God’s laws to the Christians.

      Otherwise this prophecy is totally unlike any other in the bible, yet it is all based on OT scriptures. I think many people may be missing the whole point of it.

      But if you’re right, no Christian has anything to worry about for if Mohammed does return we will never worship him. So that is comforting at least.

  56. What do you think of this?

    Seven Beast Empires/Kings: Satan has used several rulers/empires in an attempt to prevent the birth and eventual eternal reign of Jesus Christ. To prevent the birth of this child and his eventual reign, Satan has persecuted and attempted to annihilate the Jewish people. The kings and empires/kingdoms that Satan has used to try to achieve his goal are presented in the table below:
    http://www.prophecyproof.org/glossary-of-terms#B

  57. The Seven Empires and Rulers of Revelation 17:10

    Ruler Empire/Kingdom What He is Notorious For

    (1)
    Pharaoh Ahmoses I Egyptian Kingdom Seeking to Kill
    All Jewish Males


    (2)
    Sennacherib Assyrian Empire
    Seeking to destroy the Royal Line of Israel and Scattering the Ten Northern Tribes of Israel
    2 Kings 18:17-35



    (3)
    Nebuchadnezzar Babylonian Empire
    Destroying the First Temple, Deporting Jews to Babylon
    Daniel 2:37-38, 2 Chron 36:6-7, 2 Kings 25:8-9, Jer 52:28-30



    (4)
    Haman Persia Empire
    Seeking to Kill All the Jews living in the Persian Empire
    Esther 3:8-14



    (5)
    Antiochus Epiphanies IV Seleucid Kingdom
    Seeking to Destroy the Jewish Religion and Persecuting the Jews
    Daniel 11:1-34, Book of Maccabbees



    (6)

    Nero Roman Empire
    The King Alive at John’s Time
    Revelation 17:10



    (7)
    Adolf Hitler Third Reich
    Killing 6 Million Jews, Seeking to Destroy Christianity
    Revelation 17:10

    • This is a new list to me although I have heard every one of them mentioned in various places.
      At least it mentions Rome.
      You have to toss out the first two. This prophecy starts in Babylon with Daniel. There is no indication that we need to look farther back in time.
      A problem I see is that there is an eighth king who is of the seventh. Does this mean that Hitler will be coming back?

      • james

        maybe…if this list is right…Hiter might come back….since he is already in hell.( another bottomless pit) he would be raised back up to do more damage.

        just guessing

        or…if the beast has 7 heads…this represents the 7 men who have been possessed by satan….

        and then the little horn is the current one.

        • Marianne, I think you are close to the truth. While God has no good reason to resurrect Hitler (the devil can’t do it), there may be a neo-nazi movement that come to power in Germany and causes WW3. After all, they started the last two so why not the next one?
          However, I don’t believe their leader will be the false prophet nor will Germany be the beast, it is just an inevitable event due to man’s proclivity for war.
          We know there will be another world war but there is no reason to believe the antichrist will start it.
          We humans will do that all on our own.

          Do you know who those seven possessed men are by the way?

  58. That seems possible.

  59. Hi hope you are well.

    Aldolph(6 letters) Hitler (6 letters)= 66
    Joseph (6 letters) Stalin (6 letters)= 66
    666 soon to come?

    Love,

    John

    • That’s cute John.Does it also work in Greek and latin or Hebrew? Somehow I don’t think it is supposed to work in a particular modern language. But don’t forget that the numbers on a roulette wheel add up to 666 too, So maybe the antichrist is a member of the Gambino family.
      Just silly food for thought. 😉

  60. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar
    “How Bush’s grandfather helped Hitler’s rise to power”

    The Rothschilds were also involved, through the company IG Farben.

    The same people who once tried to install their satanic Millenium, are trying it again.

    Bush jun. and John Kerry are admittedly on tape members of the occult Skull&Bones order from Yale.

    The rabbit hole is deep, very deep…
    Our leaders around the world have sold their souls to the evil.

    Hitler was a fan of Helena Blavatskys works, and, infact, the New Age doctrines have many similarities with Nazism.
    Maitreyas logo has also a Swastika embedded.

    • Masonry’s and Satan’s “Game Plan”, written in 1871:

      Albert Pike’s 1871 letter to Mazzini proposed three world wars needed to accomplish their purposes:

      “The First World War must be brought about in order to permit the Illuminati to overthrow the power of the Czars in Russia and of making that country a fortress of atheistic Communism. The divergences caused by the “agentur” (agents) of the Illuminati between the British and Germanic Empires will be used to foment this war. At the end of the war, Communism will be built and used in order to destroy the other governments and in order to weaken the religions.”

      “The Second World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences between the Fascists and the political Zionists. This war must be brought about so that Nazism is destroyed and that the political Zionism be strong enough to institute a sovereign state of Israel in Palestine. During the Second World War, International Communism must become strong enough in order to balance Christendom, which would be then restrained and held in check until the time when we would need it for the final social cataclysm.”

      “The Third World War must be fomented by taking advantage of the differences caused by the “agentur” of the “Illuminati” between the political Zionists and the leaders of Islamic World. The war must be conducted in such a way that Islam (the Moslem Arabic World) and political Zionism (the State of Israel) mutually destroy each other. Meanwhile the other nations, once more divided on this issue will be constrained to fight to the point of complete physical, moral, spiritual and economical exhaustion…We shall unleash the Nihilists and the atheists, and we shall provoke a formidable social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to the nations the effect of absolute atheism, origin of savagery and of the most bloody turmoil. Then everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the world minority of revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned with Christianity, whose deistic spirits will from that moment be without compass or direction…will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally out in the public view. This manifestation will result from the general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time.”

      http://www.bibleprobe.com/freemasonry.htm
      Much more about the occult history of Masonry there

      • I did some checking on this letter and found the exact same article. Only at the end there is a disclaimer:
        It cannot be stressed too strongly that these claimed excerpts from a non-existent correspondence are not supported by any documentation. Internal evidence, the language and subject matter, clearly suggest a much later creation date.

        And another quote:
        In fact, the accusation—although not the specifics— can be traced to the earlier writings of the self-confessed hoaxsters Domenico Margiotta and Leo Taxil. There is no evidence that any correspondence ever existed. The British Museum has recently confirmed in writing to researcher Michael Haupt that such a document has never been in their possession.

        It appears that the conspiracy theorists were unable to prove what they set out to do, thus debunking the letter.

        Oh well. Would have been more interesting if were true.

        • Did you recognize that this is from the Masons themselves?
          http://www.freemasonry.bcy.ca/anti-masonry/pike_mazzini.html
          Is it wise to ask the wolf if he is really going to eat you?

          Why dont you research the rabbit hole, before you dismiss it as a conspiracy theory, what -btw- the roman empire theory itself also is. 😉

          In principle it is easy:

          Find out who has the most power and wealth on this planet, besides the “ruler of this world – satan”,
          and you will know who works for the antichrist kingdom.

          But before you do that, please, James, consider what you are being told here, that your soul might be deceived by wolfs in sheeps clothing and that you maybe have not the true faith leading to salvation and a new birth through the supernatural work of God.

          No church will save you, only Jesus saves.
          In fact the great majority of churches are leading people away from the Truth.

          What you need to do in order to be saved is to repent with all your heart, because you have seen how wicked you are,
          to deny yourself
          and to DIE for the world, and everything in it,
          but after your death to LIVE FOR Jesus.

          This is not easy and hard work in your heart and fighting with your own pride and will.

          Jesus says: “STRIVE to enter in at the strait gate: for MANY, I say unto you, will (just) seek to enter in, and shall not be able.”

          PRESS ON TO KNOW HIM !!

          I’ll pray for you and i believe the others here also.
          Silvan

          • Excellent preaching! ‘I command’ says The Lord.
            And the Universe obeys. ‘I command’ says The Lord …
            Soon even those who in their hearts say ‘there is no God’…
            Their knee will bow …
            For it is written ‘Every knee shall bow …
            Trust in Him because He trusts in you.

  61. Hi,

    Hope all is well.

    Charles Manson has a swatzstika on his forhead. Anti Christ.

    Love,

    John

    • Sorry, the Nazi’s were Christians. The Jews were the anti-christs. Hitler actually used some of the writings of Martin Luther, a staunch anti-Semite, to justify his plan to exterminate the Jews.

      • James,

        Hi hope you are doing good today and that tomorrow is fine as well.

        If you think Nazis were Christians then I would suggest reading the Bible. Just like the Puritans, the Catholics, the Lutherans and so forth were not Christians. Christians are known by their fruits. Commiting Genocide is sure indication you are not a Christian!!!

        I certainly would not consider the writings of anything outside of the 66 books of the Bible as inspired from God. Thus Martin Luther’s writings are not Christian.

        Love,

        John

        • I didn’t say they were GOOD Christians. By your definition there must be very few of them around today. Well maybe you are right, after all the true church is a mere “remnant” of the Woman’s seed.
          But we would have a hard time categorizing everyone if we got so technical.
          So what was your point in the first place, I forgot? Is Manson really the Antichrist or what? Or just a joke?

  62. For all you fellow beast hunters out there I thought I would try to help out a little by simply listing various attributes of the beast. Sort of a checklist you can use to verify that the beast you may identify really fits the bill.
    This list will be primarily for the last beast of Daniel / first beast of Revelation – the one with the seven heads and ten horns. In case you believe they are different beasts I will indicate where the attribute came from so you can toss out the ones you don’t think apply.

    So here goes:

    1: It has seven heads and ten crowns. Daniel defined the beast, the horns (crowns) and heads as kingdoms. Since definitions in the NT are found in the OT, we must assume that John uses the same terminology, especially since the two are firmly linked together.
    Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
    Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom [are] ten kings [that] shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

    2: The beast actually contains another small horn (kingdom) that is religious and speaks great things (against God). It seems to control the other ten kingdoms because for some reason it destroys thee of them, leaving the seven heads.
    Dan 7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn [were] eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
    Dan 7:20 And of the ten horns that [were] in his head, and [of] the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even [of] that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look [was] more stout than his fellows.

    3: It a religious power
    4: It speaks great things against God – it is blasphemous
    5: It thinks it can change God’s laws.
    6: It will last for 1260 years (or 42 months if you don’t use the prophetic day=year formula)
    Dan 7:25 And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
    Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty [and] two months.

    7: It persecutes Christians
    8: It has imprisoned people and killed them.
    Dan 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
    Rev 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

    9: It is a worldwide power – People throughout the world will worship it’s brand of religion.
    10: It gets its power from Satan therefore it must try to get people to turn away from God’s true word.
    Rev 13:4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who [is] like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
    Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

    11. It will be killed by the sword. The true church will have been waiting patiently for this power to be overcome.
    Dan 7:25 And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High…
    Rev 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

    12: After the first beast is killed a second beast will appear with the same power and authority as the first one. (This will be the kingdom from which the false prophet will come as well as his mark.) But that’s another list.
    Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
    Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

    13: At some point the little horn power will be restored.
    Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by [the means of] those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

    For those of you still looking for the beast, here is a good starting point.
    For those who have a favorite beast, use this to verify that your perp fits the profile. (OK, so I watch CSI)

    Good luck and let us know what you discover. After all, that is the whole point of this blog is it not – to discover the truth?
    God Bless

  63. You all are getting farther and farther from the truth!

    • I believe the scripture speaks for itself. Must you reject it to make your point, whatever that is?

  64. James,
    I have said many good, right, and true things in my post above, and you haven’t agreed to or acknowledged one thing as being right, or true, but instead you scoff at everything I say.
    Personally, I don’t think you know Jesus Christ in true repentance and faith; I think you are a Seventh Day Adventist; a cultist. Their salvation in not coming to Christ in repentance and faith, believing; their salvation is adhering to Adventist doctrine, and being baptized.
    Baptism doesn’t wash sin away; only the blood of Christ washes sin away. I Jn 1:7, the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin.
    A person doesn’t receive the Holy Spirit by being baptized. I’m convinced that you are just a religionist, void of the Spirit of God, and therefore you can’t receive truth, and you don’t; it runs off your back, so to speak, like water off a ducks back.
    Its a waste of time to continue communication about anything with you.
    It’s my prayer that you might see yourself as a sinner, in need of Christ, and the forgiveness He offers, and that you will turn to Him in repentance and faith, and be born again into the kingdom and family of God.
    Everything you have said on this post agrees with Adventist doctrine.

    • It is obviously my words as well as yours are falling on deaf ears. We will never convince either one of us of anything. But there are others who may read this blog and they deserve a chance to hear a point of view and check it out for themselves.
      I am a member of the Philadelphia Church. We honor all the commandments including the sabbath, as well as the other yearly sabbaths (holy days) set up by God for his people. We reject all remnants of paganism including their holidays such as Saturnalia and Ishtar. If following the laws of God is a cult, then I suggest you join us.

      Zechariah 14:16,18

      The Nations Worship the King after Christ has Returned

      16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.
      18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the LORD strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.

      Looks like if your church doesn’t now celebrate this Jewish festival, they better get ready to.
      You may think I don’t have the blessings of the lord but please don’t worry about me, I am in good hands. I am trying to do my part as a servant of the Lord and while some may be hostile and refuse to listen, that maybe a few will get the message and turn from Babylon. Perhaps I will see them at the first feast and I will know I at least my efforts were not in vain.

      • James,
        By the Grace of God I will be there in the Millennial Kingdom when Jesus/Jehovah will be King over all the earth, and all the earth will come to worship before Him. If you do not know Jesus Christ, you won’t be there. Peter said in Acts 4:12, Neither is there salvation in any other, for there is none other name under heaven whereby we MUST be saved!
        My friend, if you have not been born again by the Spirit of God, Jesus said you won’t see that kingdom, the one Zec 14 is talking about. That is born into the kingdom and family of God by the new birth; by water and the Spirit.

      • James,
        Is that the Philadelphia church that doesn’t believe that Jesus Christ is God?

        • Of course not, you’re thinking of Islam. They are a church that has been prophesying since the 1930’s under Herbert G. Armstrong. They distribute many dozens of booklets on prophecy and publish a monthly magazine on current events that are fulfilling prophecy right now. They also produce a weekly TV show “The Key of David” which is usually about prophecy happening today.
          Here is a link to their web site:

          http://www.thetrumpet.com/keyofdavid

  65. The pitch fork of the devil?

    • Well, the music was cool, but what was his point? Is the god Poseidon going to return to earth? In a UFO? What exactly should we be afraid of here?
      If NASA wanted to hide the event they wouldn’t have sent the photos and a press release to every TV station in the country.
      It seems that every NASA photo that has a rock or a bright dot or almost anything at all in it becomes a UFO sighting. And what do UFO’s have to do with the beast of Revelation?
      Sorry, just venting. I downloaded the photo for my astronomy picture collection. Hate to think the thing is cursed or something.
      🙂

      • Streamers 90 million miles away ….
        I thought it interesting while our sun is 93 million miles away from Earth.
        It is huge!
        I liked the music too. And I am not afraid of anything.
        I also think it cool that he associated this with Poseidon the god of …. water , while Hades god of … the underworld.

        • Well I just don’t believe in the god Poseiden and I don’t believe that the aliens inside the UFO believe in him either, so the shape (and the distance) are just a coincidence. (The asteroid belt is twice as far from the sun as earth). I just hate it when idiots go messing around with astronomy. It‘s a pet peeve.

  66. LAW VERSES GRACE
    Paul the Apostle says that those who want to keep the Law have fallen from Grace!
    Gal 5:4, Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
    The church at Galatia had fallen under the false teaching of a false gospel.
    They had come to believe that they could be save through circumcision and keeping the law of Moses, which included keeping the Sabbath. The Law is all one package. Paul said in Gal 5:3, For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
    Paul said that if you want to keep part of the law, like the Sabbath, or being circumcised, you have become indebted to do and keep all the law. There is nothing wrong with being circumcised, unless you want to obey and follow the Low of Moses. Notice what Paul said in Gal 5:2, Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
    Paul is saying that if you want to live under the Law, Christ will be of no profit to you, that is for salvation, and living the Christian, Spirit filled life.
    Lets go back now to Gal. chapter 1, and follow Paul’s arguments; He confronts their problem head on, by saying:
    Gal 1:6, I marvel that ye are so soon removed from Him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
    Paul says here that they have removed themselves from the Grace of Christ to another gospel; so it is clear from his phrasing, that he is talking about the method of salvation. One is either saved by the Gospel of the Grace of Christ, or by keeping the law; one or the other, but not by both.
    Vs. 7, Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
    Paul goes on to say here, that there is not another gospel; there is only one, and that is salvation by repentance from sin, and faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross. He says, anything other than that is a perverted gospel, and those who pervert the gospel, are trouble makers, teaching keeping the Law of Moses; he says let them be accursed
    The book of Galatians, then goes into a biographical account of how Paul came to an understanding of the Gospel of the Grace of Christ that he preached, in the second half of chp 1, and the first half of chp 2; how he came to Christ; how he was called, and how the gospel was revealed unto him by God Himself. He also tells how he withstood Peter, and those who came from Jerusalem, who didn’t want to fellowship with the saved, Christian Gentiles because they weren’t Jews, didn’t follow the law.
    Gal 2:11, But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed … 14 when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
    Notice what Paul tells Peter here; you are a Jew, but you don’t live like one, but you want the Gentiles to live like Jews. Paul is saying you don’t keep the Law anymore, since you have been saved; why should the Gentiles?
    Then in Gal 2:16ff he begins to address the problem of keeping the Law.
    Gal 2:16, Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
    Paul starts his argument, which carries on through the rest of the book, with this; a man is not, and can not be justified by the works of the law! How then is a man justified by God? by the faith of Jesus Christ; he then says, that’s why we Jews have believed in Jesus Christ. We Jews have lived all or lives by trying to keep the Law, but still found no salvation; no justification, living by the Law. We only found that we were condemned sinners.
    Notice in the very same verse Paul repeats again what he just said, so the reader won’t miss it; we Jews believed in Jesus Christ that we could be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the Law; he than adds, for by the works of the Law NO flesh can be justified!
    Paul states this truth in a different way in Rom 8:2, For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
    Paul states the problems with keeping the Law here; he says the Law isn’t the problem, the flesh is the problem; he says it is weak, in other word sinful, disobedient to God and His ways. Notice Rom 8:7, Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
    Paul says, the carnal, or unsaved mind and man is against God and His ways; why? the unsaved man isn’t subject to the Law of God, nor can he be; that is why the new birth is necessary. Paul calls this in 8:2 the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.
    Notice what Paul says in Eph 2:3, Among whom also we all had our conversation (way of life) in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
    Paul is saying here the same thing as Ro 8, the problem is human nature; we are not sinners because we sin, we sin because we are sinners; it is our nature; an apple tree doesn’t produce anything but apples, and our nature is sinful, therefore we produce sin. That’s why keeping the Law can’t save us. Its of works, and our works of righteousness are tainted with sin; Isaiah the prophet says the same thing. Isa. 64:6, 6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
    Notice how he closes out Galatians chapter two, Gal 2:21, I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
    Paul does not frustrate God and His Grace; he understands that righteousness doesn’t come by keeping the Law; true righteousness is a result of, and fruit of the Spirit of God, because of Christ’s death and resurrection.

  67. Continued:
    Paul starts out beautifully in chapter 3 of Galatians;
    Gal 3:1, O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
    Paul is chastising the believers in the Galatian church; he asks them, how did you receive the Spirit of God? by faith, or by the works of the Law? The answer is obvious, by faith in Christ. In other words, we hear the gospel (Word of God) we believe in Christ, by repenting of our sins and turning to Him in faith; He then saves us; quickens us by his Spirit that comes to indwell us, and gives us the gift of forgiveness and eternal life.
    So, what is Paul saying? The Christian life is lived in and by the Spirit of God indwelling us, and not by keeping the Law without salvation and the Spirit of God working in us.
    This is in part, the reason why Christ changed the Sabbath to the first day of the week; it was connected with keeping the Law of Moses. He wanted to completely disconnect His church from Judaism, and the Law.
    The Roman Catholic church might have made a legal change, of the Sabbath to Sunday, but Christ didn’t. Saturday is still the Sabbath. Jesus changed the day of worship from keeping the Sabbath, to worshipping Christ, in the church/assembly, on the first day of the week.
    Nowhere in the N.T. is the church seen, or found keeping the Sabbath, nor is it anywhere commanded in the N.T. to keep the Sabbath. Every time the ten commandments are mentioned in the N.T. the Sabbath is never included. Why is there this silence in the N.T. on keeping the Sabbath?
    Jesus did many of His miracles on the Sabbath, and it just infuriated the Pharisees! They accused Him of breaking the Sabbath. Paul never had church worship services in Synagogues, but he did go into the Synagogues on the Sabbath to preach the gospel of Christ to the Jews; it is stated twice in the N.T. that the N.T. church met for worship on the first day of the Week. The Apostle John called it the Lord’s day in Revelation chapter 1.
    Colosians 2:16 is the only verse in the Epistles where the word Sabbath is found. Notice this verse in its context;
    Col. 2:14, Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, (the Law), which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross … 16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
    Paul tells us that Christ Nail the Law to the cross, “the handwriting of ordinances that was against us,” and took it out of the way. Then he said don’t let someone judge you about any holy day, or the Sabbath.
    Paul said that to keep the Law is to remove oneself from the Grace of Christ unto another gospel, and to do so is to fall from Grace.

    • I did some research on this topic. Here is what an expert says:

      http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/endtimeissues/eti_220.pdf

      It seems a lot of folks will go to great lengths to wiggle out of a commandment, written in stone.
      Seems the beast (Vatican) has been able to fool the whole world pretty good.
      Way to go Satan. But you ain’t gettin’ me.

      • James,
        I am an expert too; trained in Greek, and in hermeneutics (the science and principles of Biblical interpretation) You, my friend, first off, need to read the N.T. verse by verse, and book by book; then you need to believe what you read in it; it doesn’t need to be interpreted, it needs to be believed. Then, don’t take verses out of context, but read them in their context, so you can understand their meaning. The only true meaning of a verse is what it means in its context. The message is the same throughout; the law only condemns; it wasn’t given to give life, but to reveal sin.
        Ga 3:21, Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
        Notice what Paul is saying here; the law can’t give life, nor does it produce righteousness! Don’t get the wrong idea of me; I am not against the law; it has its place; Paul said the law is holy and righteous and good, but it has its limits and place. Paul said in Gal 3:24, Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
        What does Paul say here? That the law saves? that it produces righteousness? NO! It reveals the fact that we are sinners, and need a savior. The law is our schoolmaster (teacher) to teach us our need of a savior; why? so we can be justified by Christ by faith, and not by the works of the law.
        That is Paul’s message throughout the N.T. in every book.

        • Mike

          I do not think James is saying that the law saves us. Only that we should obey it.

        • Excuse me M.R. Boehm but …
          I am not an expert at anything but what say you then of these verses?
          It seems to me that Paul here speaks of the seventh day?


          Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left [us] of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

          For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard [it].

          For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

          For he spake in a certain place of the seventh [day] on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

          And in this [place] again, If they shall enter into my rest.

          Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:

          Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.

          For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

          There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

          For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God [did] from his.

          I am not of any church but I do believe every living Word spoken by The Spirit of God.

          • Amen Abigail!
            I do appreciate your love of, and adherence to the Word of God! This is a good point you bring up! This is a passage that is hard to understand, as hard as any, and one you don’t hear preached often, if ever.
            Paul, here, is talking about the “rest of faith;” a rest from religious works, keeping the law if you will. God rested from all his works on the 7th day, and sanctified it.
            It says let us enter into HIS rest, that is the rest of Christ, the rest in Christ, the spiritual rest we enter into at salvation, the rest Christ gives the believer; again, a rest from trying to gain acceptance from God by good works (which is an impossibility for us sinners, as Isaiah the prophet said, all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags {in the sight of God})
            Paul says they had the same WORD of GOD as we, but the word didn’t profit them; why not? it wasn’t mixed with faith in them that heard!
            What is faith? In James 2:14ff James gives us a description, if you please, of faith; he says faith with out works is dead; he didn’t say faith without keep the law is dead! In other words faith is obeying the Bible. He then gives the illustration of Abraham offering his son Isaac, in obedience to God. This is faith, doing what the Bible says; obeying God. We are saved by faith, by doing what God said to do to be save in His Word; repent and believe on Christ; the death burial and resurrection.
            We live by faith the same way, by doing what the Bible says; again, not by keeping the law; there is a fine line of difference. Nowhere does the N.T. advocate keeping the law for salvation or righteousness, but we do live in obedience to the Word of God, by the power of the Spirit of God. This is faith, and this is the “rest of faith.” Paul called it, in another place, Phil 4, the peace of God that passeth all understanding that shall keeps our heats and minds through Christ Jesus.
            Paul says that we which have BELIEVED do enter into this, “rest of faith;” finished from the foundation of the world; the rest was finished when God rested from creation.
            The text says, he spake in a certain place of the seventh day; the Sabbath, the 7th day was a “type” of the rest of the believer, the rest of faith. It was the day LORD rested from His labors of creation; under the law it was a day of cessation from all works; under the N.T. it is a spiritual rest; its not keeping the Sabbath.
            Paul says, some must enter into that rest, but those to whom it was first preached didn’t enter, because of unbelief; and those in Joshua’s day (Jesus) the same in Greek (in the margin of your Bible in vs 8 for Jesus in says Joshua) who led the children of israel into the promised land, the land of rest, the land of milk and honey. It says the promised land wasn’t the promised rest of God though, but there was a future day, the N.T., the spiritual rest of the believer; the spiritual rest, if you please, that is in Christ.
            Paul then says, There remaineth a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into His (Christ’s) rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from His. What does this mean?
            God finished His work and rested; Christ, when he died on the cross and paid the final debt for sin, cried out on the cross, It is finished! The Greek word for, it is finished, is tetelestai, completed; Paid in full! The work of our salvation was complete in Him;j our sin debt was paid in full. There is nothing you or I can do to add to this; our salvation is in Jesus’ finished work on the cross, plus nothing and minus nothing. You and I can not do one thing to save our selves; we can’t do one thing to add to Christ’s atonement for our sin; we are bought with a price, the blood of Jesus; Rev 1:5, Unto Him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in His own blood; Ro 6:23, the gift of God is Eternal Life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
            It says we who have entered into this rest have ceased from our own works. Our salvation is complete and finished in Christ, and in Him we have spiritual rest; the work of our salvation is done; there is nothing more to do, or that can be done; we have ceased from our own labors, like trying to keep the law. We have spiritual rest, and Peace too.
            Paul said it in a different way in Rom 10,
            10:1 Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
            2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
            3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
            4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
            5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
            6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise …
            8 The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
            9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
            10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
            11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
            Paul said the O.T. Israelites had a zeal for God, but it wasn’t according to knowledge; they were ignorant of God’s righteousness, and were involved in establishing their own righteousness; self righteousness by keeping the law.
            Paul says in Heb 4 their works weren’t mixed with faith;
            He says here, Christ is the end of keeping the law to obtain righteousness; it is by faith; the rest of faith, which produces the righteousness of faith Paul talks about in Romans.

            • Are you saying that the Commandments of God are void?
              Are you saying that we have no need to obey the Commandments of God?
              I am finished with this subject!

              • Abigail,
                I remember watching a TV preacher spend an entire hour a while ago explaining that the law and commandments were “nailed to the cross” and we are now free to do anything we please as long as we believe we are saved by Jesus (and send him some money for his ministry). I thought, It’s a good thing murder is still against the law in the U.S. or this guy could just go berserk. He had all the scriptures to back him up but I knew something was hincky about it.
                I don’t care how you twist the scriptures you’re not getting me to believe God has just tossed the OT out the window. Especially commandments he wrote in stone – twice!
                Keep the faith Abigail. Never give up one jot or tittle of it!

                • James,
                  I don’t care for T.V. preachers much; I don’t have time to waist watching them; there are a few though that aren’t too bad; those that aren’t in it for the money.
                  Jesus started the church, the called out assembly; not TV churches. Paul said the church/assembly is the pillar and ground of truth!

              • No Abigail,
                Not at all; the commandment of God are very much in place; they are not void at all; but we, as N.T. believers, have a higher calling than keeping the Law; we are to fulfill the royal law of love, Jam 2:8, If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
                I use the ten commandment in evangelism to show someone they are a sinner; in my opinion that is the main purpose of the law today; it is God’s standard of right and wrong; it’s purpose is to convict of sin, which Paul so aptly expounds in the 2nd half of Rom 7. Now notice what Paul says about the law, and its place in this N.T. economy we are under;
                Rom 3:19, Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. (the law renders all the world guilty before God)
                20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. (this is the classic verse in the N.T. on the purpose and place of the law! It shows two things; 1. no one can be justified by keeping the law, 2. the law gives the knowledge of sin. Do you want to help someone come to faith in Christ? Read the ten commandments to them, and explain them to them; no one can go through the ten commandment, and not have to admit he/she is a sinner, big time! More on this later.
                21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; (God’s righteousness is manifested without the law)
                22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: (the righteousness of God comes by faith in Jesus Christ, without the law)
                23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
                24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: (Justification, a legal term; being declared righteous by God, is by the free grace of Christ, through redemption [being bought by Christ, being paid for by His blood])
                25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; (the sins of O.T. saints were covered by the blood of goats and bulls, under the forbearance of God, waiting the sacrifice of Christ, whose blood washed away all sins).
                26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
                27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. (if justification were by keeping the law of God, men could boast about their righteousness).
                28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. (here Paul says the same thing,as he says in Gal 2:16, that is that we are justified by faith, without keeping the law)

                • Dear Mr. Boehm,
                  What you have said here is true.
                  The commandments of God brings one to the knowledge of sin. For everyone has broken His Laws.
                  And it is true that it is God Himself who declares one righteous.
                  And I thank you for writing such a letter but … even after the declaration of God calling me righteous through the redemption of Christ … I must still follow the strait and narrow and keep the Sabbath Holy as that is the sign between God and me that I belong to Him.
                  And it is not boasting at all to say truly that by Him I am His Daughter.
                  The commandments brings one to repentance if one truly loves God and a deep repentance … it is because we were rebellious or ignorant of His will.
                  But thereafter you must follow closely to Him.
                  There isn’t a day that I plead with Him to keep me close and to hold my hand so I do not get lost.
                  I value Him above all else and it is hard for me to see others do not.
                  It tares my heart apart to see so much
                  hardness against Him.
                  To me it matters not which day He chose for Himself my flesh will submit.
                  He chose the Sabbath the fourth of the commandments for us to keep Holy.
                  The church can meet any day they wish to but the seventh day belongs to Him and we shall not work or buy or sell or cook or gather or clean or travel etc.
                  on His Day of rest.

                  • Abigail,
                    Thanks for the kind words; I agree that we must strive to walk the narrow path, to always strive to live above sin, but I am also thankful for I Jn 1:9, If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleans us from all unrighteousness. To me it is saying, that if I confess what sin I know I have done, He will forgive me and cleanse me from the things I don’t know are wrong.
                    I do disagree though, that we must keep the Sabbath; we are to work 6 days, and have a days of worship, and cessation from secular work; I keep the first day of the week; I do not work on Sunday; I go to church, one that teaches the Bible uncompromisingly, Sunday morning, and for the evening service too; and I attend prayer meeting & Bible study on Wed. eve. Church, Grk, ekklesia, assembly, means an assembly of people called out from their home to public meeting; Jesus said, I will build my assembly, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
                    To me church, the assembling of saints together is very important for spiritual strength. To sing in worship together is a unique experience.
                    Ac 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
                    Jesus purchased the church with Hiss own blood.
                    Paul said the church is the pillar and ground of truth, I Ti 3:15, But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. I love the church; actually, the people of the church, the saints. Saint is the greek word hagios, and means holy ones. Sanctification is also from the same root word, to make holy, hagiosmos.

                    • No such thing as secular work. Actually, 6 days you will built the temple and the 7th. day you will rest.

            • As far as I am concerned it doesn’t matter one iota if Paul or any other apostles decided to meet on Sundays rather than Saturday. Because neither an apostle nor a pope nor a Roman emperor has the authority to change any of God’s laws. I’m afraid I’m going to have to get that in writing from the Big Man himself.
              In Stone!

              • So what you are saying James is that the only parts of the Bible you believe, are the parts you chose to; I’m afraid of you my brother; you sound like a false teacher!

                • All I’m saying is that if God had decided to change one of his commandments he would have made it absolutely clear and would not have couched it in obscurity based on flawed interpretations from writings that were not of divine origin. Remember that only the book of revelation was given by God himself. The rest of the new testament were never intended to be added to the bible by their authors. You need to keep that in mind when trying to interpret the true meaning behind some of the NT verses. Remember it was the church, not God who decided which apostolic writings were accepted or rejected.
                  My point is that you must be very careful when you decide you can reject one or more of God’s commandments. It just may come back to bite you in the end.

                  • James,
                    I can’t believe you believe that you said that; actually, it is right in line with all your reasonings. Your true colors are showing more and more, s you reveal yourself through your words.
                    You don’t believe the N.T is the inspired Word of God, and you don’t believe what is written in it, except as it fits your O.T. theological reasonings.
                    What do you think the whole N.T. is about? why did Jesus come?
                    Mt 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
                    Lu 19:10 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.
                    Jesus came to offer Himself a sacrifice, not just to take away our sins, but also all the sins that were covered by the blood of goats and bulls, that were passed over by the forbearance of God, while He waited for Christ to come and take all the sins of the O.T. economy away by the sacrifice of Himself.
                    Ro. 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
                    25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in His blood, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; (the sins that are past by the forbearance of God are the O.T. sins, which were washed away by the blood of Christ.
                    Paul said in Heb 9, that the blood of goats and bulls could never take away sins.
                    Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
                    12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by His own blood He entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
                    13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
                    14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
                    15 And for this cause He is the mediator of the New Testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the First Testament (O.T.), they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. (Jesus death and blood took away the sins of the O.T. era).
                    25 Nor yet that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others;
                    26 For then must He often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath He appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
                    28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
                    Notice the purpose of God! For Christ to offer Himself for the sins of the world, land to take away all the sins of the O.T. ere that were covered by the blood of those sacrifices through the forbearance of God.
                    The message through Hebrews is that God was taking away the O.T. sacrificial system by the sacrifice of Christ, and replacing it with the N.T. Notice the following verses, as the Holy Ghost, through Paul speaks the inspired N.T. Words of God.
                    Heb 10;1 ¶ For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. (the Law could not make the users of it perfect; it was only a shadow and type waiting for Christ, the true thing, to come).
                    2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
                    3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. (the O.T. sacrifices couldn’t take away sin; they offered for their sins year after year; Praise God! our sins are washed away I know, as the chorus goes; echoing the same N.T. truth).
                    4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
                    5 Wherefore when He cometh into the world, He saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
                    6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
                    7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
                    8 Above when He said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;
                    9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. (here the purpose of God is plain; Christ came to take away the first [O.T.] that He might establish the second [N.T.]; He said God had prepared a body for Him so that He could be the sacrifice of God [lamb of God] to take away the sin of the world).
                    10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
                    11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: (the O.T. sacrificial system wasn’t designed to take away sin).
                    12 But this man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
                    13 From henceforth expecting till His enemies be made His footstool.
                    14 For by one offering He hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
                    15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that He had said before,
                    16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; (the N.T. Jesus/God made for us to replace the O.T.).
                    17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
                    18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
                    19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
                    20 By a new and living way, which He hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, His flesh; (Christ made a new and living way for us, not the O.T. deadness of of the Law).
                    21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
                    22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
                    23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for He is faithful that promised;)
                    24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
                    25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. (the N.T. born again, blood washed Christian saint is to meet together with his fellow believers weekly; that is his Sabbath rest).
                    As Jesus told the Sadducees, you err greatly, not knowing the Scriptures, nor the power of God.

                    • Let us not question each other’s salvation, just because they disagree with us, or we think they are not as enlightened as we are.

                      thanks. 🙂

                    • You apparently have failed to understand the premise of my statement.
                      There are many preachers today that will take a few pieces of scripture and blow them all up out of proportion. Many of them can absolutely prove to you that the best way for you to become rich is to give all you can to their ministries in order to obtain God’s blessings and from that, wealth will surely follow.
                      Some say that Christ nailed the commandments to the cross and we are saved purely by grace, so we can all be adulterous, homosexuals and murderers and it will all be just fine. I have heard these types on TV my whole life and they are not about to go away.
                      My point is you must be very careful when interpreting certain scriptures as some of them were written with certain agendas in mind. You must remember that Paul believed that Jesus was about to return any day and his teachings (such as in regards to celibacy) were written from that perspective. (In fact, all the disciples believed Christ would return during their lifetimes, and even John who was close to the end of his life when he wrote Revelation stated that the things he was describing would “soon come to pass” indicating that he did not understand the time frame involved).
                      The apostles were men and they were not perfect and many of their writings have been rejected by the bible compilers, who were also just plain old flawed humans.
                      There is more to theology than just reading the bible.
                      And just as one can use statistics to prove anything, the same can also be said with the bible. If that were not true then this site would not exist as there would only truth and different opinions would not exist. Not even the greatest theologians in history have agreed about what the bible is saying or else there wouldn’t be so many different denominations.
                      It is my personal belief that you may have missed the entire purpose of the Book of Revelation but of course you are entitled to your opinion, as we all are.
                      I only hope that you are not successful in your attempt to convince us all that we may now break the sabbath commandment based on your interpretation of the letters of Paul.
                      Next you’ll have us all praying to statues of dead people. (Actually I used to do that when I was young, so it wouldn’t be much of a stretch).
                      Hang in there sabbath-keepers!

    • MIke

      Paul also said that just because we live under grace does not excuse us from sin, which is disobedience to the law.

      Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

      Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

      Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? [Is] the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

      The law is our teacher. We obey it while we are under grace, knowing that we are not slaves to the law, but willing vessels ready to obey, with God’s help.

      The law is not dead. If you had substituted “thou shall not murder” instead of keeping the sabbath, you would see that God would definitely want that law obeyed. So all commandments are equal before God. Grace happens to give us favor before God, when we have sinned, and repented.

      Christ never changed the sabbath from Saturday to Sunday (first day of the week).

      The debate over law you mentioned was also concerning circumcising adult men, who were way past the designated age for it anyhow.

      The laws that became “extinct” were the ceremonial laws connected to animal sacrifice for sin.

      There was a change in the old priesthood, based on the law of blood sacrifice for sin with bulls and goats.

      Instead, there came a new covenant based on a new priesthood of the order of Melchizedek, with a new high priest, who has, for once, and forever, made atonement for us with his own blood, and intercedes for us constantly before the throne of grace.

      • Marianne,
        Paul’s message reverberates throughout the N.T., the law doesn’t produce righteousness, it only condemns! Read what Paul says in Romans 7 about the law:
        7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
        2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
        3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
        4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
        5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
        6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
        7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
        8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
        9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
        10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
        11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
        12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
        13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
        14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
        15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
        16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
        17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
        18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
        19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
        20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
        21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
        22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
        23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
        24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
        25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
        8:1 ¶ There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
        2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
        3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
        4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
        Paul says in verse 4, we are dead to the law, but married to Christ.
        In vs 6, he says we are delivered from the law, that we might serve God in newness of Spirit; what does it mean? Under the law we didn’t have the Spirit of God; we were dead in sin, but when we came to Christ, under the tutelage of the law, we were made alive Spiritually, to serve in the Spirit.
        Paul, then goes into this dissertation about the relation of the law and sin, and concludes in verse 24, O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
        Not the Law, but Christ delivers. Paul say in chp 7 the law is holy and just and good; the law isn’t the problem, but it isn’t the solution either. Christ is the solution; he says in Gal 3:21, Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
        Keeping the Sabbath is part of keeping the Law; that’s why Christ led His N.T., not O.T., church to meet on the first day of the week; a clean break was made from the law. The Christians solution is not keeping the law, but walking and living in the Spirit.
        Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
        23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
        24 And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
        25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
        The Christian is to live a crucified life, dead to sin, but this can only be done in the power of the Spirit, and not by keeping the law, which brings us into bondage to sin again. Notice, Paul says this at the start of chapter 5.
        Gal 5:1,Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. (the yoke of bondage is law keeping)
        2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. (when a person converted to Judaism, he was circumcised)
        3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. (the law brings one under bondage, the Spirit sets one free)
        4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
        5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
        6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. (if we are in Christ, the law is nothing, but faith is what is at work in our lives through the Spirit)
        7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?
        8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.
        9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. (Paul calls teaching observance of the Law, LEAVEN)
        10 I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be.
        11 And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased.
        12 I would they were even cut off which trouble you. (those who teach observance of the law)
        13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. (liberty from legalism, or observing the law, which brings one under spiritual bondage)
        14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. (Paul says in another place, love is the fulfilling of the law; love is a fruit of the Spirit, not a work of the law).
        The ceremonial law revolved around Sabbath keeping! Notice in the N.T. when Paul quotes the moral law, the Sabbath is never mentioned.

    • Mike,
      Do you not believe that it is God who created you and everything else?
      The Sabbath was commanded at Creation.
      The R.C.C. believe, support research and educate their followers in evolution now a days …
      So does the church of england.
      If God is your Creator then honor Him.
      He is God and if you love Him then obey Him.

      • Abigail,
        You are under that false assumption, that Sunday worship came from Rome; it came from Christ! He consistently met with His disciples on the first day of the week after His resurrection; the N.T. church followed His pattern; we see it in the N.T.
        Joh 20:19, Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you … 26 And after eight days (first day of the week) again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
        Jesus met with His disciples when? on the first day of the week! Why not on the Sabbath? It connected them with Judaism, and law keeping.
        Ac 20:7, And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
        Here the N.T. church is found meeting on the first day of the week; why not on the Sabbath? Christ had changed that, and they were following in His teaching, His commandments (not OT commandments)
        1Co 16:2, Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
        Here again we see the N.T. church meeting on the first day of the week, following Paul’s instructions. The N.T. church, is under the New Testament, or Covenants, Christ’s commandments, not the Old Testament, Old Covenant.
        Make up your mind; are you a follower of the New Testament, or the Old Testament/Covenant.
        And, please, I am not in any way minimizing the importance of the O.T.! I believe in adamantly, and follow it, but not the keeping of the law to try and keep it. I am not fallen from grace, nor do I want to go back under the law.
        Remember, the Sabbath was a sign and a covenant between God and Israel, not between Christ and his church!
        Ex 31:13, Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
        14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
        15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
        16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
        Ex 31:17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

        • Mr. Boehm
          I am not under any false assumptions.
          The Sabbath was made for man and I will keep it.
          And I will keep it Holy.
          I’ve asked you above to explain, therefore Hebrews 4 written by Paul.
          Thank you

        • The Lord shows MERCY to HIM who Loves Him.
          Deu 5:10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

        • Mike,
          how do you know you are not Israel?
          I agree with you on sunday worship, but that doesnt mean that the sabbath is done away!
          Did you read Matthew 5?

  68. It is actually easy to understand, when one reads what Jesus says in Matthew 5:

    17Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

    18For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

    19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall TEACH men so, he shall be called the LEAST in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

    20For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

    21Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:

    22But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

    .
    We get righteous through faith and grace.
    And when we feel this wonderful condition and get holy and the holy spirit, we are willing to obey the law BY NATURE.
    What matters is our heart, and ONLY our heart.
    We love God, and therefor are WILLING to obey his laws, valid until the earth and heavens pass!
    Jesus says: If you love me, you hold my commandments.
    .
    BUT beware, if you are holding all these commandments, but without an regenerated heart, without being born again through the visit of Gods spirit, without Love to god, your righteousness does NOT “exceed the reighteousness of the scribes and Pharisees” and you will NOT enter the kingdom of heaven!!

    James, iam afraid you are maybe trying to make it into the kingdom by holding the Law.
    You maybe ask yourself the question, if you had a visit by Gods spirit, and if you truely know and love Jesus.

    • Silvan,
      Good point; our righteousness can only exceed the righteousness of the Scribes and Pharisees, through the imputed righteousness of Christ, not through trying to keep the law. We live and walk in the Spirit,l not in the letter of the law. The Pharisees were keepers of the law to the nth degree; they were self-righteous in their keeping the law; religious, but lost,

    • Christ fulfilled the law that we could never fulfill; it only condemned us as Paul so aptly sets forth in Romans seven. Christ lived a sinless life in obedience to the law that we could not do; He died on the cross and paid the sin debt we owed with His life, in death, something we could only do in hell; and He defeated death for us in His resurrection, something that we could never do; and He rose from the, and offers eternal life, life after death, to all who will turn from self and sin to Him in repentance and faith.
      The gift of God is Eternal Life through Christ Jesus our Lord; it is not through keeping the O.T. Law of Moses. The law is good, it is holy, it is just; we don’t need justice, but mercy; the law doesn’t save, and it doesn’t produce righteousness in our lives; the Spirit produces the righteousness of the law in us, Ro 8

  69. Remember, everyone, that this is just a discussion as to who the “beast” might be.

    Just because someone has a certain opinion about a doctrinal or prophetic issue, does not mean they do not have Christ in their heart.

    That is a personal relationship issue, and intellectual debates do not always shine the light on that area of a person’s life.

    • Marianne,
      I could not have said that better. It is one thing to argue about an opinion about scriptures but to assume whether another person has Jesus in their hearts is quite another matter.
      You may attack my knowledge but not my faith.

  70. What is the Law actually? Do we all speak of the same thing?
    10 commandments or Torah? Arent the 10 commandments out of Torah?
    Which Law “is pressed in our hearts”?

    • Are Jesus’ commandments else than the 10 commandments?
      Why does he say “Who loves me, does what i command”?

      • Psa 112:1 Praise ye the LORD. Blessed [is] the man [that] feareth the LORD, [that] delighteth greatly in his commandments.
        Psa 119:21 Thou hast rebuked the proud [that are] cursed, which do err from thy commandments.
        Psa 119:32 I will run the way of thy commandments, when thou shalt enlarge my heart.

      • Yes, I think so; Jesus said, a new commandment I give unto you, that ye love one another;
        Jn 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
        35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.
        Jn 15:9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
        10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.
        11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.
        12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
        13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
        14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.
        Jesus said His commandment is that we love one another;

        Paul said a similar thing; notice Gal 5:
        13 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. (liberty from the law, not from sin)
        14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. (Paul said the law is automatically fulfilled by love) If I love my neighbor, I wont’ lie to him, or about him; I won’t steal from him; I won’t curse him, or at him; I won’t kill him; I won’t committ adultry with his wife/husband [depending on your sex]; I won’t covet his possessions; I will honor my father and mother. Paul said all the law is fulfilled in LOVE.
        15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
        16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
        17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. (that is as an unregenerate person)
        18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. (What did Paul say? If you are led of the Spirit you are not under the law? there you have it; end of discussion!).
        Paul says the crux of the whole matter is that the Law is fulfilled in and by LOVE, which is a fruit of the Spirit, vs 22.
        Paul then says we are to walk in the Spirit; that is the way to have this fruit of the Spirit, this LOVE of God, which, he says in Ro 5:5 is shed abroad in our heart by the Holy Spirit which is given unto us.
        The Law of God was a mechanical way, if you please, of fulfilling the moral will of God before the Holy Spirit was given unto us, through Christ, to manifest God’s love in our hearts, and lives. We are commanded by Christ to love one another; that this is his commandment.
        We are commanded by Paul, through the Spirit’s inspiration, to walk in love; to walk in the Spirit; to not walk in the flesh. He says in Ro 8:4, that the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us, who walk in the Spirit.
        I guess maybe some would rather live under the Law and the O.T. system, or dispensation, rather than to live and walk in the Spirit. For myself, I would rather live in and follow the N.T. teaching rather than try in vain to keep the law.
        Paul said if a person wants to keep the law, Christ is of no profit to that man, he is fallen from grace; that’s not something I want; I need mercy and forgiveness, not law and justice.

  71. Keeping the sabbath is part of the moral law, which has never been abolished.

    The sabbath is saturday, the 7th day.

    Jesus rose on the first day of the week, and appeared on the first day of the week, not because he was creating a new sabbath day.

    I was just 3 days later, as he predicted.

    If he showed up in the upper room on Saturday, he might have missed everyone.

    They would have been in the temple, keeping the sabbath.

    • If you want to worship on the Sabbath, that’s your privilege; as for me I will follow the N.T. pattern of worshipping on the first day of the week.
      Where are your N.T. Scriptures showing the the N.T. churches met on the Sabbath? If you can show some, I will consider what you say, but the preponderance of the N.T. evidence is against the N.T. church meeting on the Sabbath.
      Like I said, the churches of today didn’t come out of Catholicism, except Lutherans; Presbyterians; Congregationalist; Church of England; and Methodists. Of course you have the Christians Cults, all of which started in the 1800’s, but the true churches were started by Christ Himself, in the gospels, and baptized with His Spirit on the day of Pentecost, and have always existed since then, having His promise of perpetuity; the gates of hell shall not prevail against it [the church]. The true churches didn’t go into Catholicism after 300 A.D. when the Cathoilic church had its inception, and then come back out of it after the dark ages.

      • Mike,

        There is no establishment of Sunday as the new Sabbath.

        Christ never mentioned to change the sabbath.

        But, in essence, we should be able to worship him on any day we please.

        Not out of legalism, or out of rejection of Israel, but just because it is in our hearts to worship Him.

    • Even in death, Jesus kept the sabbath. That is the true message we need to take from his Sunday resurrection.

  72. …Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall TEACH men so, he shall be called the LEAST in the kingdom of heaven….
    (Jesus the Saviour)(should be taken serious)

  73. Remember ‘Before Abraham was, I am’ this is The One who never changes … God.
    If you want to know the Truth here is a link
    http://www.tomorrowsworld.org/cgi-bin/tw/booklets/tw-bk.cgi?category=Booklets1&item=1104414149

    • Abigail,
      I don’t need to go to any website to know the truth; I have the Bible; I have been born again by the Spirit of God, who wrote the Bible through men; yes the teacher lives in me, the Holy Ghost, and He teaches me daily as I read His Word. I read and study it daily, besides working. I’ve been reading it every day for 36 years now, and I can honestly say, that I haven’t missed a day. The Christian life rises and falls on daily Bible reading, and daily prayer.
      But I went to that website, and read what this false teacher says, and he is a false teacher! The salvation he teaches, is keeping the Sabbath, but he has made many false statements besides that.
      I am sad for you, sister of Eve, deceived by a smooth tongue minister of Satan, the angel of light, whose ministers appear, and sound as though they are ministers of righteousness.
      I have told you all day many good and right things out of God’s Holy Word, yet you reject some or all, I don’t know, but to follow this false prophet. I can see that the internet is truly a dangerous place with false teachers that lie in wait to deceive.

      • I do not follow that man nor any other man.
        I do not know if this man is true or false. God knows.
        But you seem to want many many scriptures to uphold your neck.
        I presented that site even without reading it … why? because of your need to wash away the Truth with as many scriptures as possible.
        It is tiresome to argue you know …
        I honor the ten Commandments. I honor what God commands.
        I am not trying to change your mind that is entirely up to you.

  74. Here is a famous excerpt from the writings of Pope Gregory I regarding how Sunday worship began. It is quite revealing.

    Pope Gregory I
    “It has come to my ears that certain men of perverse spirit have sown among you some things that are wrong and opposed to the holy faith, so as to forbid any work being done on the Sabbath day. What else can I call these [men] but preachers of Antichrist, who when he comes will cause the Sabbath day as well as the Lord’s day to be kept free from all work. For because he [the Antichrist] pretends to die and rise again, he wishes the Lord’s day to be held in reverence; and because he compels the people to Judaize that he may bring back the outward rite of the law, and subject the perfidy of the Jews to himself, he wishes the Sabbath to be observed. For this which is said by the prophet, ‘You shall bring in no burden through your gates on the Sabbath day’ [Jer. 17:24] could be held to as long as it was lawful for the law to be observed according to the letter. But after that the grace of almighty God, our Lord Jesus Christ, has appeared, the commandments of the law which were spoken figuratively cannot be kept according to the letter. For if anyone says that this about the Sabbath is to be kept, he must needs say that carnal sacrifices are to be offered. He must say too that the commandment about the circumcision of the body is still to be retained. But let him hear the apostle Paul saying in opposition to him: ‘If you be circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing’ [Gal. 5:2]” (Letters 13:1 [A.D. 597]).

    “The [Catholic] church took the pagan buckler of faith against the heathen. She took the pagan Roman Pantheon, [the Roman] temple to all the gods, and made it sacred to all the martyrs: so it stands to this day. She took the pagan Sunday and made it the Christian Sun day . . . The Sun was a foremost god with heathendom. Balder the beautiful, the White God, the old Scandinavians called him. The sun has worshipers at this hour in Persia and other lands . . . There is, in truth, something royal, kingly about the sun, making it a fit emblem of Jesus, the Sun of Justice. Hence the church would seem to have said, ‘Keep that old, pagan name. It shall remain consecrated, sanctified.’ And thus the pagan Sunday, dedicated to Balder, became the Christian Sunday, sacred to Jesus. The sun is a fitting emblem of Jesus. The Fathers often compared Jesus to the sun; as they compared Mary to the moon.”–William L. Gildea, “Paschale Gaudium,” in The Catholic World, 58, March, 1894, p. 809. [Dr. Gildea (1856-19 14) was rector of St. James Catholic Church in London].

    • And the Sabbath is not only for people, it is also for the beasts and for the land.
      The land shall have its rest as well.
      Greedy men have drained the earth of all its nourishment and have terribly afflicted the herds of the fields and of the air and etc.
      The land will have its rest. God says so. And if no one hears then too bad for their stiff neck for truly their face will drop to the ground.
      Like every mountain will bow! And every hill will bow !
      And every knee will bow!

    • James,
      If you want to keep the Sabbath, thats fine my friend; but don’t try and convince me with this pagan stuff. Don’t think you will get to heaven, though, because you keep the Sabbath; that isn’t found in N.T. doctrine.
      If you are going to convince me to worship on the Sabbath you will have to show me from the N.T. where the Sabbath worship is taught or commanded in and for the N.T. church; give me some Bible; I base my life, and faith on the Bible, not on the writings of men. The Sabbath is only mentioned twice in the N.T. Epistles, and there is absolutely no teaching at all on observing the Sabbath as a N.T. day of worship. The first day of the week is also found only twice, but it does show the church meeting on that day, in both accounts, and you do also have the accounts of Jesus meeting with His disciples for worship on the first day of the week. But you don’t find the church meeting on the Sabbath at all in the N.T.
      Joh 9:16 Therefore said some of the Pharisees, This man is not of God, because He (Christ) keepeth not the sabbath day.
      James, above all I must be honest with the Scriptures; that has been one of my guiding principles over the years, and I must be honest with myself; God sees and hears, and knows all. My relationship with Him is based on how I keep my heart; He knows me in and out; if I am dishonest with Him or with myself, or with the Scriptures, or with others, He knows. I face Him daily in prayer; how can I face Him if I am dishonest? If I am dishonest with the Scriptures, to prove a point, I deceive myself only, so what have i gained? With God I stand in the negative.
      I Jn 1:8, If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
      9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
      10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

      • Dear Mike,
        We worship in Spirit and in Truth. The commandment is not to worship on the Sabbath. The Commandment is to rest. The Commandment is not to assemble but to stay still and to trust that He is God.
        Men have added and changed and taken away much in The Holy Scriptures.
        Even turning the pages of the bible is work on the Sabbath. Let Him be your shepherd and let Him lead.
        Trust in Your Savior. 🙂

        • Abigail,
          Notice verse 25 below; the command to assemble
          Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)
          24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
          25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
          26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
          27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
          28 He that despised Moses’ law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
          29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
          30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
          31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

      • Obeying the fourth commandment by itself will not get one into heaven, but not obeying it might keep them out.
        Better safe than sorry.
        Can I get an AMEN?

  75. There is an even more important question here than who is the beast. It is why the book? Does God have a purpose in this revelation. Is there a lesson to be learned from it? Is he preparing us for his second coming? Why foretell all of this if we will only be raptured away before it all comes down?
    These are the important questions we need to address. If we can figure them out, then maybe the prophecy will make perfect sense.
    Food for thought. Happy eating.

  76. M.R.
    one question:
    If you break the 10 commandments, are you sinning?

    • Silvan,
      Absolutely, Sin is the transgression of the law, I Jo 3:4, Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Read my post above to Abigail where I go into the purpose of the ten commandments in the N.T.
      You had asked above, What is the law; I assume you mean, in my opinion. I think that in the N.T. the ten commandment are referred to as the law.
      Lets look at the ten commandments as they are given in the N.T:
      17 And He said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. (Jesus implies to this rich young man that He is God; secondly, is Jesus saying that a person can go to heaven by keeping the ten commandments? Absolutely not, otherwise the rest of the N.T writers would have taught the same thing; Jn 3:3-5 is Jesus teaching on how to have eternal life.)
      18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal (who, I ask, among us has not stolen in his
      life?), Thou shalt not bear false witness (who has not lied?),
      19 Honour thy father and thy mother: (we have all broken this commandment too, through disobedience to our parents, and at times disrespect) and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. (who loves their neighbor as their self? be honest now, we’ve broken this one too). The ten commandment were not given to give life, but to teach us that we are fallen sinners in need of a savior!
      20 The young man saith unto Him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? (this young man was spiritually blind, if he thought he had kept all the commandments).
      21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. (if this man was in obedience to the first commandment, he would have thought more seriously about obeying Jesus).
      22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions. (this young man demonstrated that He was in reality, a Christ rejecting sinner; he would rather have his money, that Christ). This is not teaching that we can go to heaven by giving our material wealth to the poor, either.
      Notice the Sabbath is not mentioned here by our Lord Jesus Christ.
      Here is another N.T. passage that talks about Christ’s commandment:
      I Jn 3:21, Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.
      22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of Him, because we keep His commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.
      23 And this is His commandment, That we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as He gave us commandment.
      24 And he that keepeth His commandments dwelleth in Him, and He in him. And hereby we know that He abideth in us, by the Spirit which He hath given us.
      4:1 ¶ Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
      2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ (Messiah) is come in the flesh is of God:
      3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
      4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is He (Holy Ghost) that is in you, than he (satan) that is in the world.
      It is interesting to note that when the Apostle JOHN talks about keeping the commandments, he is referring to what Jesus taught, that is to love one another, and he adds too, believing in Jesus, and that He is the Messiah, and God in the flesh.

  77. Here is another passage, given by Paul, where the ten commandments are quoted in the N.T:
    Ro 13:8, Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. (following the law in the O.T. was a mechanical way to show love, in a sense, but no one followed it perfectly, as I showed in the quote above).
    9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. (Love is a higher law than the ten commandments, for it not only fulfills the negative commandment, thou shalt no, but it goes beyond that to doing the positive, loving, and caring.
    10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour (the negative): therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
    11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
    12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light. (another N.T. commandment)
    13 Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.
    14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.
    I think the passage above, of Jesus quoting certain of the ten commandments, and this one of Paul quoting the same commandments, are the only two places in the N.T. where the commandments are quoted. Notice that the Sabbath is not mentioned in either place, nor is it mentioned in any N.T. passage given to the church to follow. Remember, the N.T. is just that, it is new; it replaced the old, and the day of worship is also replaced with the first day of the week, the Lord’s day.

  78. II Co 3:5, Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
    6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. (the letter refers to the ten commandments).
    7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: (the ministration of death is the ten commandments; a graphic description by Paul, showing that the commandments only bring death, they don’t give life; Christ came to give life, and bring in the N.T. (new). (Paul also here says that God’s Law, 10 commandments was glorious, even though it ministered death; in Ro 7 he calls the law holy and good).
    8 How shall not the ministration of the Spirit be rather glorious? (the Spirit is more glorious that the law).
    9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory. (here the law is called the ministration of condemnation; why? because in points out our sin, condemning us).
    10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth. (Paul says here that even though the law was glorious, comparatively speaking, the giving of life by Christ through His Spirit excells the glory of the law).
    11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. (here Paul says the law was done away; what does he mean? for the law is still in place; it still has purpose, as I talked about up above. He means that the N.T. salvation in Christ, ministered by His Spirit superseded the law, and replaced the old operationg system, if you please; it is the New Testament/covenant which replaced the law, and the O.T. operating system. The law is God’s plumb line; it will always stand; it is part of the Word of God; it will never be done away, in that sense).
    12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech: (hope of eternal life in Christ).
    13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished: (again, he says the law was abolished, that is as the O.T. way to serve God).
    14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

  79. Breaking the 10 commandments is sinning. Period.
    Jesus set the hurdle even higher. Hatred is murder.
    If you fulfill the royal commandment of Love, you will out of love for God set the seventh day aside for resting, doing things the Lord is pleased with (like healing), and for having intimate communion with him.

    Worshipping on Sunday has nothing to do with the day of Rest.
    Worship on the first day is wonderful and scriptural, but keep the commandment of resting on the 7th day, ALSO!
    The whole flood of scripture you are citing doesnt proof in any way that the day of rest is invalid.
    Why do you try so desperately to proof disobeying is right?
    The sabbath is good for you, it is made for you!

    “Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall TEACH men so, he shall be called the LEAST in the kingdom of heaven” Matt5

    Do you really want to be the least in heaven?

    I have one last question, dear M.R., then iam done with this.
    Why does Jesus say this, when the sabbath supposedly means nothing anymore:
    And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath. Mark 2:27

    • Amen Silvan,

      Notice that omitted there as well is
      Thou shall have no other gods before me
      Thou shall not make unto thee any graven images
      Thou shall not take the name of The Lord our God in vain
      Remember the Sabbath day to keep it Holy
      Honor thy father and thy mother.

      Now are these five commandments void??
      God forbid!!
      These five commandments are the Royal LAW!!!

      • Amen Abigail!
        Yes, I noticed that.
        Found that actually important, but didnt write it down.
        Thanks to the Lord, I got you 🙂
        .
        One note to the works/salvation topic:
        “Faith without works is dead”
        Works are “just” a sign that we have salvation through faith in Christ and Gods grace,
        and this works are done automatically by nature, as like as a baby sucks milk.

        But who shall do these works?
        We, the believer?
        No, we are just vessels.
        WE shall do nothing.

        Do nothing in your own strength!

        “Do nothing” are the words of Christ. He “did nothing” apart from the Father. He lived in perfect unity and submission to the Father in all things. As God-Man, He lived in the only way anyone can truly live.

        Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit in the desert, (Luke 4:1)

        Jesus gave them this answer: “I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does. (John 5:19 NIV)

        By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me. (John 5:30 NIV)

        So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am the one I claim to be and that I do nothing on my own but speak just what the Father has taught me. (John 8:28 NIV)

        Jesus Christ lived on this earth exactly as we are supposed to live on this earth. As He was in complete submission to the Father, so we are to be in complete submission to Him. As He did nothing apart from the Father, so we are to do nothing apart from Him.

        Even though Christ in Himself was completely perfect, He came to this earth, taking on human flesh and lived fully and completely as a man

        Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death– even death on a cross! (Philippians 2:5-8 NIV)

        Christ humbled Himself in complete submission and obedience. He perfectly modeled the spiritual truth that we gain the most when we give away our life. Christ submitted Himself fully to the Father’s will, trusting Him in all things even as it led to the cross where Christ, in love, gave Himself to die in our place. Christ knew and understood the greatest gift He could give was to give Himself to the Father to be instrument of our salvation. If this is how Christ lived, how can we live any different?

        read here further:
        http://www.christmylife.org/article.php?id=91
        Walk in the Spirit not the flesh:
        http://www.christmylife.org/article.php?id=93

    • I didn’t do the omitting; God did; I just cut and pasted the verses in; I didn’t leave any verses out either!

    • You seem to be a true believer; either you have a limited understanding of the Bible, or you just don’t believe large parts of it.

    • Did Adam, Noah or Abraham kept the Sabbath? The Ten commandments and the Sabbath (as a commandment) did not exist until Moses led the children of Israel out of Egypt after their 400 year stay. The word “Sabbath” isn’t found in the book of Genesis. The first mention of the word Sabbath is in Exodus 16:23 at Mt. Sinai. Here Jehovah gave Moses the “Ten Commandments,” for the first time in world history. If the Ten commandments did not exist before Moses, then neither did the command to keep the Sabbath. The truth is that Adam never kept the Sabbath, nor did Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, or the other eleven patriarchs, nor did anyone until after Israel left Egypt! For the first 1500 years of world history there is no record in the Bible of keeping the Sabbath; it hadn’t been given.
      Paul says that Abraham is the father of all who believe, Ro 4:11; the Sabbath was not given until long after the death of Abraham. The Sabbath, was a sign between God and Israel, Period. It was for the dispensation of Law; it wasn’t in existence as a commandment before the law; until Moses, and it ended as a commandment when the dispensation of Grace superseded the dispensation of Law. Please, let’s keep the facts straight!

      • The Sabbath is called the SEVENTH DAY.
        And The Seventh Day is a Number of God. Man would have never thought of it.

        Gen 2:2
        And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
        Gen 2:3
        And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
        Exd 20:11
        For [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
        Exd 31:15
        Six days may work be done; but in the seventh [is] the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth [any] work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
        Exd 31:17
        It [is] a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for [in] six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

        Hbr 4:4
         
        For he spake in a certain place of the seventh [day] on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
        Hbr 4:5
         
        And in this [place] again, If they shall enter into my rest.
        Hbr 4:6
         
        Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
        Hbr 4:7
         
        Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
        Hbr 4:8
         
        For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
        Hbr 4:9
         
        There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
        Hbr 4:10
         
        For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God [did] from his.
        Hbr 4:11

        Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
        Hbr 4:12
         
        For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
        Hbr 4:13
         
        Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things [are] naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

        Please let us indeed keep the facts Straight.
        From The Beginning God called the seventh Day a Day of rest.
        And from the Beginning The Almighty Sanctified that DAY. The SEVENTH DAY.

      • Now concerning Abraham …
        The scriptures says ….
        Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

        Notice the word ‘COMMANDMENTS’ ??????

  80. What Is A Christian?
    Is a person a Christian just because he believes in God, or just because he goes to a church? Is just believing there is a God enough to get a person into heaven? Is just being a Catholic, or a Luthern, or a Methodist or Presbyterian, or a Baptist going to get you into heaven? Is this the messaage of the Bible, and Jesus Christ?
    James, the brother of our Lord Jesus Christ said, Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble, Jm. 2:19
    This verse comes at the end of a short disertation on faith by James, the brother of Jesus.
    Jm. 2:14ff What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
    16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
    22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
    23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
    The bottom line of what the Bible is saying is that faith is doing what the Bible says, and not just meaningless nebulous believing. Faith must have an object and purpose. Our Lord Jesus Christ is the object of faith, and forgivness of sins and enternal Life is the purpose.
    John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily (truely), I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily (truely), I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
    Jesus said that in order for a person to percieve, and enter into the kingdom of God he must be born into it, just like you were born into your own family by the physical birth; so you are born into the kingdom and family of God by the spiritual birth.
    How does this happen? That was Nicodemus’ question too! and he was a Jewish Rabi (a priest). Jesus asked him why he was a rabi (teacher) and didn’t know how a person obtained eternal life? The new birth is an act of God whereby God quickens the sinner who turns to Jesus Christ in repentance and faith. The apostle Paul said in the following verses that all men are sinners and need the salvation of God, this new spiritual birth.
    Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11 there is none that seeketh after God; 12 there is none that doeth good, no, not one; 13 with their tongues they have used deceit; 14 Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: 18 There is no fear of God before their eyes. 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; For the wages of sin is death;
    Re.20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
    Those who are born twice will die only once, but those who are born only once will die twice.
    A Christian, then, is one who has turned from sin and self to Jesus Christ in repentance and faith, and at that point in their life experienced the miraculous, life changing, new spiritual birth from God, being born into the kingdom and family of God.
    Repentance is a change of mind that affects a turning to God, from sin and self; it cannot be seperated from faith. Faith is doing what God has instructed us to do in the Bible, and begins when we first hear the Word of God, and believe on, and receive Jesus as our own Lord and Savior.
    Ro. 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
    What is there to confess? The verse says, the Lord Jesus; will you confess that He is Lord and Savior, and that He rose from the dead so that you too can have life after death? Call upon Him in prayer today; now! Ask HIM to forgive your sin and be your Saviour and Lord. The verses below describe the destiny of those who refuse and reject Jesus Christ.
    Re.20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and Him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

    • A Christian??
      This is what and a Christian is …

      Exd 16:28
      And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?

      Deu 5:29
      O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

      Deu 8:6
      Therefore thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to fear him.

      Psa 78:7
      That they might set their hope in God, and not forget the works of God, but keep his commandments:

      Psa 103:18
      To such as keep his covenant, and to those that remember his commandments to do them.

      Psa 103:20
      Bless the LORD, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word.

      Psa 111:7
      The works of his hands [are] verity and judgment; all his commandments [are] sure.

      Psa 111:10
      The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do [his commandments]: his praise endureth for ever.

      Psa 112:1
      Praise ye the LORD. Blessed [is] the man [that] feareth the LORD, [that] delighteth greatly in his commandments.

      Psa 119:6
      Then shall I not be ashamed, when I have respect unto all thy commandments.

      Psa 119:10
      With my whole heart have I sought thee: O let me not wander from thy commandments.
      ACTUALLY the entire Psalms 119

      Pro 7:2
      Keep my commandments, and live; and my law as the apple of thine eye.

      Pro 10:8
      The wise in heart will receive commandments: but a prating fool shall fall.

      Ecc 12:13
      Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this [is] the whole [duty] of man.

      Isa 48:18
      O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:

      Dan 9:4
      And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;

      Amo 2:4
      Thus saith the LORD; For three transgressions of Judah, and for four, I will not turn away [the punishment] thereof; because they have despised the law of the LORD, and have not kept his commandments, and their lies caused them to err, after the which their fathers have walked:

      Mat 5:19
      Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

      Mat 15:9
      But in vain they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.

      Mat 19:17
      And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

      Jhn 14:21
      He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

      Jhn 14:15
      If ye love me, keep my commandments.

      Jhn 15:10
      If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love.

      1Jo 2:3
      And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

      1Jo 2:4
      He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

      1Jo 3:22
      And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

      1Jo 3:24
      And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us

      1Jo 5:2
      By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

      Rev 22:14
      Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

      • We must not forget this verse …
        Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

  81. And this is copy and pasted from another site.
    First Commandment: You shall have no other gods before Me
    Matthew 4:10; 6:24; 22:37-38; Luke 4:8; Revelation 14:7.
    Second Commandment: Thou shalt not worship Idols
    Acts 15:20; 17:16; 29; 1 Corinthians 5:10-11; 6:9; 10:7, 14, 19; 12:2; 2 Corinthians 6:16; Galatians 5:20; Ephesians 5:5; Colossians 3:5; 1 Thessalonians 1:9; 1 Peter 4:3; 1 John 5:21; Revelation 2:14; 9:20; 21:8; 22:15.
    Third Commandment: Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord in vain
    Matthew 5:33-34; 1 Timothy 6:1; James 2:7.
    Fourth Commandment: Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it Holy
    Matthew 12:8, 12; 24:20; Mark 1:21; 2:27-28; 6:2; Luke 4:16, 31; 6:5; 23:56; Acts 13:14, 42, 44; 15:21; 16:13; 17:1-2; 18:4; Hebrews 4:4, 9-10 (See also Amplified, ASV, BBE, NASB, NIV, RSV and NRSV.)
    Fifth Commandment: Honour your father and your mother
    Matthew 15:4; 19:19; Mark 7:10; 10:19; Luke 18:20; Romans 1:30; Ephesians 6:1-2; Colossians 3:20; 2 Timothy 3:2.
    Sixth Commandment: Thou shalt not Murder
    Matthew 5:21-22; 19:18; Mark 7:21; 10:19; Luke 18:20; Romans 1:29; 13:9; Galatians 5:21; 1 Timothy 1:9; James 2:11; 1 Peter 4:15; 1 John 3:15; Revelation 9:21; 21:8; 22:15.
    Seventh Commandment: Thou shalt not commit Adultery
    Matthew 5:27-28; 19:18; Mark 7:21; 10:11-12, 19; Luke 16:18; 18:20; Acts 21:25; Romans 1:29; 2:22; 7:3; 13:9; 1 Corinthians 5:11; 6:9, 18; 10:8; Galatians 5:19; Ephesians 5:3; 1 Thessalonians 4:3; Hebrews 13:4; James 2:11; 2 Peter 2:14; Jude 1:7; Revelation 2:14; 2:21-22; 9:21.
    Eighth Commandment: Thou shalt not Steal
    Matthew 19:18; Mark 7:22; 10:19; Luke 18:20; Romans 2:21; 13:9; 1 Corinthians 5:10-11; 6:10; Ephesians 4:28; 1 Peter 4:15; Revelation 9:21.
    Ninth Commandment: Thou shalt not bear false witness
    Matthew 15:19; 19:18; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20; John 8:44; Acts 5:3-4; Romans 1:29; 13:9; Ephesians 4:25; Colossians 3:9; 1 Timothy 4:2; 2 Timothy 3:3; Revelation 21:8; 22:15.
    Tenth Commandment: Thou shalt not Covet your neighbour’s things
    Mark 7:22; Luke 12:15; Acts 20:33; Romans 1:29; 7:7; 13:9; 1 Corinthians 5:10-11; 6:10; Galatians 5:19; Ephesians 5:3, 5; 1 Timothy 6:10; 2 Timothy 3:2; 2 Peter 2:14; Hebrews 13:5.

  82. Attention!
    Pleaste listen everyone:
    *M.R. Boehm wants to be the LEAST in the kingdom of heaven*
    I repeat:
    *M.R. Boehm will be the LEAST in the kingdom of heaven if he doesnt repent*
    Thanks for your attention.
    Have a good day.

    • Funny ? yet sad?
      Why is it people hang on to their doctrines teeth and nails?
      No fear of God perhaps? Pride maybe?
      I personally do not understand it.
      Should we not Love God and do the little bit He asks us to do?
      What is so difficult in resting?
      Afraid not to make enough money?
      Afraid of lack?
      Your neighbor asks us to help and we are willing but God asks us to rest and we are unwilling.
      Beyond my comprehension … therefore I will not try to understand what I obviously cannot.
      Good luck M.R.Boehm and Silvan and all.

      • ..just shouting out the truth in a manner M.R. is jolted, would stop and think finally and lets his conscience speak.

        And so that somebody who secretly embraces this false and dangerous teaching is made hopefully clearly aware of it.

        I dont care if somebody is offended.
        Jesus offended many people with the truth.

    • I shake off the dust of my shoes!

  83. What is your opinion on this ??
    War?
    Earthquake?
    Haarp?
    What is it?

    • no clue. I did not know they had a HAARP station in Australia.

    • There have been a number of similar events over Australia including the NW corner. Scientists are unsure of the cause.
      One thing you must remember is that these are Radar Images, not actual visible events. It appears that something is interfering with the proper operation of the radar circuitry, probably in the section that converts the reflected radio signals into a visible computer display.
      Who knows, maybe some joker installed some kind of a weird screen-saver as a practical joke. Maybe we’ll find out eventually.

  84. WOW.. Good morning. I sure feel like stepping into a pingpong game.. 10 commandents can never be taken from God’s laws.. God himself have NOT changed at ALL nor is HIS laws.
    It is not our hearts who struggle against God.. it is our brains that held against God. In flesh, we struggle and sin.. wanting to follow God all the way.. yet we stumble every time..
    Truth ? Let’s see… I can give you an example of myself. With truth and in open… I am as stubborn as donkey.. does seem prideful to others but not so real prideful inside.. I use stubborness and prideful to mask the real me and my real heart.. not waiting anyone to see 100 percent me .. I rather to have God to see it all than I share with others.
    Problem ? Maybe so in everyone else views.. For me, it isn’t. Why ? I protect my soul and heart oh so jealously and not allowing anyone come near nor touch it except God.. I do not surrender to humankind easily nor willingly..
    The difference between one person to the other person… Very few people who would mask every hurt, every pain, every distrust toward others with a happy smile.. I am one of those..

    Boy, honestly, I look at everyone.. ALL people.. ALL kinds.. To me, all are so wonderfully made and so unique in God’s ways.. But NOT HIS way if everyone bickers over HIS ways or HIS laws.. Why? There is one missing link I noticed that everyone forgot to mention…. Do not worry if we do not know how to do Sabbath correctly and in His ways.. ( I share that guilt because I had NO idea.. no one told me )… There are a lot of people cross the world does not have an idea either… So, after when HE comes, it will be all written in their hearts and minds and we all will join in harmony…

    At least, I can leave at that. It just makes my heart aches to hear everyone disagree.. all the time. Because I do know that God does not want to see this either. He loves us ALL.. it is US who need to be humbled and we do KNOW… don’t we ?

    Blessings…

    • That is why The Lord says ‘Seek you FIRST ME and the Kingdom of Heaven …’
      You see Tamera … we must have enough of a yearning for Him and to know Him to seek Him!
      Seek and you will find …
      Then ask and it will be given …
      But First seek Him.

  85. Above that video… tells me a lot about playing with fire… Very clearly same HARRP who is controlling clouds.. tsk… Looks like straving Afrcia people there.. tsk… I am not surprised.. A lot like those type of equipments cross the world nowadays that is creating enough weird weathers lately.

  86. Ohhh looook what video I am “coincidentally” watching!!

    It fits so perfectly on everything we are speaking about!!

    John 14:21
    He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and …

    … WILL MANIFEST MYSELF TO HIM !

    PS: my guess is also HAARP or Project Bluebeam.
    PPS: Hi Tamera 🙂

    • ….the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that OBEY HIM. Acts 5:32

      If we want to be spirit filled, we have to be willing to obey him.

  87. Halleluja, I got the whole point of “grave vs. law”!
    Jesus wants us to fulfill the spirit of the Law, not the letter of the Law.
    God looks at the heart right?
    The Pharisees did fulfill the letter, but their hearts did not love what they were doing, they became bitter and full of hatred against God.

    So, God had to come into this dimension as the Son of Man and fulfilled the letter of the law, what no Adamite could do all his lifetime,
    and HE commanded us to fulfill the spirit of the law,
    which we are commanded to do after we are through his Grace saved from the punishment for our previous sinning against the Law.
    Through salvation and grace the naked letter of the Law doesnt apply to the believer anymore, BUT we have STILL to fulfill
    the SPIRIT of the Law!
    Throughout his ministry, Jesus taught what the spirit of the law is.
    It is the love for God with all thine heart, and your neighbour as thine self.

    How do we break it?
    Hatred is already murder, coveting already theft, lust already adultery and so on!

    So if we put on Christ and let him rule us, we will love our neighbour and we wont break the spirit of the law (and of course neither the letter)!

    So whats now the spirit of the 4th commandment??

    It is first of all to love God and therefor putting aside a special day dedicated for him our Saviour.

    What does now HE himself TEACH about the spirit of the 4th commandment?

    “…Therefore it is LAWFUL to do good on the SABBATH” Mt12

    Note that he speaks of the Sabbath day, which is of course the SEVENTH day!

    He is NOT at all questioning WHICH day is to be held hallow!

    He is ONLY questioning what it means to “KEEP IT HOLY”!

    He clarifies then, that the spirit of the 4th commandment is to
    do good on the seventh day (besides other things)!

    I hope this is helpful for all.
    I did not know this all for myself 2 hours ago, before I asked the Lord to give me his deeper truth about it!
    So iam delighted how powerful and fast HE DID !!
    PRAISE HIM

  88. Interesting… yet here I am questioning with curiousity since I have abousate no idea what I was walking into most of time.. lol. However, with my curiousity for everyone if anyone share the similar..

    Anyone ever get ready to go to bed.. and then weep out of blue each night.. but joyous Saturday ?? Just asking.

    Sabbath is somewhat makes sense to me tho since I do not mind honoring His laws.. I always wanted to follow.. and sees what he sees.. feels what he feels.. but again I dare not to ask. Because I kinda guessed that He can read everything in my mind.. * twinkle eyes *

    PS: Hi Silvan

    And blessings. Pardon me if I don’t talk much unless needed 🙂

  89. Shalom,
    here the newest about Horn II / X , the North American Union:

    Former Mexican foreign minister calls for North American Union, Amero currency

    “Well, my sense is that we’re moving closer and closer to forms of economic integration with the United States and Canada and conceivably Central America and Caribbean could become part of that in the coming years,” he said. “I don’t see Mexico as a Latin American country. Too much of trade, investment, tourism, immigration, remittances, absolutely everything is concentrated exclusively with the United States. So, Mexico has to be part of a North American community, a North American union, which at some point probably should include some type of monetary union along European lines with a free flow of labor, with energy being on the table, etc,” said Castañeda.

    http://www.prisonplanet.com/another-newsweek-conspiracy-theory-claim-debunked.html

  90. James … I think I’ll come up with a term to frame the gentiles’ notion that we must not follow the 10 commandments of God …
    How does ‘genetically modified scriptures’ sounds?
    🙂

  91. The false Armageddon nad the false Antichrist
    ______________________________________________

    — The truth is now finally being revealed to the remnant!
    Please pray about this if this is indeed the truth! —

    The next war will look like Armageddon, but it is the FALSE Armageddon, which will be THE great deception and the cause why the great falling away of many many christians takes place!

    There are coming “many false christs”.
    One of them will lead the christians into thinking HE would be THE true Antichrist, the Son of Perdition!

    Its about the scheme of he great deception!

    How in Gods name can this happen??

    This again has to do with the next world war:

    Many christians believe that when they see Iran, and the muslim nations mentioned in Ez.38 coming against the Republic of Israel, that this is Armageddon, that supposedly the Son of Perdition is leading these nations against Israel and that when this war is over Jesus comes and will begin the peaceful Millenium!

    BUT, Satan and his minions the Illuminati, are exactly faking THIS Armageddon!
    When is the TRUE timing of the Gog/Magog War??
    Armageddon is at the END of the Millenium!

    Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
    Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth,
    Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
    Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

    It is crystal clear: After the Millenium the Saints, we the followers of Christ, will be attacked by Gog and Magog!
    Maybe you ask, are there possibly two battles of Gog? One shortly before the Millenium and one shortly before the end when satan is loosed again?

    Now, lets just take a close look directly into Ez.38, if there is indication:

    Vers. 8 says, Israel will be “gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and they shall dwell safely all of them”!
    Eze 38:11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,

    Let me ask you, are the Jews at rest, in SAFETY without WALLS??
    Noo, absolutely NOT! Amen!

    So, this does in no way apply to the Republic of Israel, but as written in Rev. 20 to Jesus Bride living with him in the true peaceful Millenium in the Holy Land.
    Since Jesus, the people who are born again and enter into the new covenant with HIM are the true Israel! Yahweh divorced himself from physical Israel and “stopped regarding/concerning with them”!
    (Heb.8)

    Ezekiel 38 speaks of the time when the Redeemed in Christ, HIS BRIDE in the millenial reign are “at rest in the holy land and in safety, without borders and gates”

    At moment, neiter physical descendants of the lost israeltic tribes (the Anglo-Saxons)
    are “at rest, in safety, without borders” NOR is spiritual Israel, we christians!

    Thats why it is soo important to understand that the Republic of Israel has NOT the god-given right to be named Israel! (Gen.48)

    Ezekiel 38 is prophesying about the Millenium, not about the current age!

    It gets even more clearer when one reads the previous chapter, whichs timing is as we have already discussed when the resurection of the righteous takes place and we are entering into the Millenium together with the Lord and are living in the Holy Land:

    Eze 37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children’s children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.

    So, to summarize, Israel in Prophecy is the Bride, which reigns with Christ and “dwells in the holy land without borders, in safety and at rest”!
    Naming the jewish state “Israel” is part of the great deception, and it is NOT Israel restored and reunificated (Ez.37)!
    The coming false Armageddon, in which the Muslims fight against the Republic of Israel and the USA etc., is in fact “just” the prophecied “wars and rumors of wars” by Jesus in Matthew.
    This scriptures and facts cant be discussed away!
    Thats why in my opinion it is so utterly important, that you realize that not the Muslims are the real
    threat (though they are of course murderous), but the Illuminati who try to use them to deceive us all!!
    This Elite of satan controls nearly all governments to a certain extend, so that they do will fight the false Armageddon!
    We christians are satans main goal for deception, of course, and it will please him that so many will fall for this false armageddon scheme, because they have been duped into thinking that the Republic of Israel is true Israel restored and attacked in Ezekiel 38, and further that the Antichrist is islamic.

    What does scripture say how it really looks like when TRUE Messiah comes finally back?

    Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
    Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
    Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse..

    NOT Gog and allies are gathering together to make war, but ALL armies of the earth!
    NOT against the R.o. Israel, but against Jesus and his army diretcly!
    (And appearently NO fighting, but they are instantly taken and slain by the allmighty power of the Word of God. They appearently simply have no chance against invincible Creator!)

    Yahweh bless you all!
    Please spread this informations!!

  92. James, this is amazing…I came across this site on the net last night and passed it on to Marianne who referenced your post here…

    http://www.who-is-the-antichrist.org/

    I have to say that this makes alot of sense! Once you “plug” in the information and it fits! It “feels” right as well! So, now that the Vatican is part of the EU now….where are we now? 5 years left? (I still think the solar/lunar eclipses on Jewish Holy days in 2014/2015 will mean something. And I thought this was MOST interesting/RED FLAG~~~

    /…”Aimed at promoting interfaith dialogue and closer ties between the Catholic and Orthodox churches, the trip was overshadowed by the killing on Thursday of a leading Roman Catholic bishop in Turkey who was to have participated in the Cyprus visit (*this bishop was to have taken part in the cyprus visit….ended up being MURDERED!).
    On his plane from Rome, the pope said his trip was religious in nature, not political, and insisted that Turkey or Turks in general should not be blamed for the murder of the bishop, Luigi Padovese. “The certain thing is that it was not a political or religious assassination,” the pope said. “It was a personal thing” (*a personal thing?!)
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/05/world/europe/05pope.html

    • Lyndsey,
      I forgot to get back to you about the eclipses and I lost the old link so let me fill you in here.
      I didn’t have time to check the link at the time but I did look into previous solar eclipses visible from Jerusalem and the last one was in 2006. Nothing much happened then and I doubt that much will happen on the future dates. Eclipses are just too common and mundane events to be of “biblical proportions.”
      I’m guessing that the antichrist will enter around 2026 which would put the second coming at 2033 – two millennia from the year Jesus left us. That would give the world 16 years to get to the point where all the events in Revelation are to take place. If there isn’t a New World Order by that time then it will simply be too late. Maybe then more people will finally see the light.
      But as an amateur astronomer for 55 years now, I will surely be looking closely at the upcoming eclipses no matter what.

      • Hey James,

        Here is the link: http://www.triumphpro.com/blood-red-lunar-eclipses-and-solar-eclipses.htm

        Eclipses are common…however, what Mark Biltz is pointing out is the fact they occur on Jewish Holy days…

        • Lyndsey,
          I found another link when checking the eclipse paths that might interest you,:
          http://www.zimbio.com/Total+Lunar+Eclipse/articles/92/SOLAR+LUNAR+ECLIPSES+2014+15

          Here is a short excerpt: Coming up this summer, there will be the first of three solar eclipses on the day that introduces the first of Av (August 1, 2008). That’s right, all three solar eclipses will be on the biblical date of Av 1, for the next three years — 2008, 2009, and 2010. Our Gregorian calendar dates are:

          Av 1 – August 1, 2008 – partial eclipse
          Av 1 – July 22, 2008 – partial eclipse
          Av 1 – July 11, 2010 – partial eclipse

          Maybe you can figure out if the first two dates were of any significance. The last one is still a month away so I will keep my eye on the news that day.

          If anything, I think these coincidences may be meant only for the faithful or perhaps only the Jews. Maybe they will help bring them closer to Jesus before he returns. But I don’t think they fulfill any prophecies and I doubt that any of the seven seals etc, will occur on those dates.

          Also remember that the Jewish calendar is lunar-based, so the reoccurrence of eclipses like this is to be expected actually.
          I guess time will tell.

          • Hi James,

            Found this too…”God’s time clock does seem to follow a very clear time period revolving around the number 7. Bruton in this video series makes a very convincing argument that you can pinpoint the time of recent years of jubilee and then calculate them forward, along with looking at how those days intersect with the 7 feasts of Israel. Couple this research with Mark Blitz’s fascinating research on the blood moons and solar eclipses occurring AT THE SAME TIME as this man’s research points to the return of Christ, and you have interesting food for thought to say the least.”http://theomegareport.com/?p=803

            Thought it was interesting that the author of Daniels timeline (Bruton) and Mark Blitz’s research on the eclipses MATCH! Now, regarding the significance of Aug 1 2008 partial eclipse….the only thing I have to go on is that the night that Obama won the election the HS told me very clearly “it has begun”. That is all that He said. I am still trying to clarify what he meant..(I know what my first thought was….but just keeping a wait and see). So, with Nov 9,2008 being the “it has begun”….I count 3.5 years later and get March 2012…7 years later and of course Nov 2015…..noticicing that the last solar eclipse is Sept 2015 “feast of trumpets”.

            • As far as the astronomy goes, the time frames between eclipses is common, not unusual. Eclipses are too common an event to be used as an announcement of the Son of God, don’t you think? And the solar eclipse in spring 2014 will mostly be visible from Antarctica – not very biblical either.
              And why 4 separate events and not one big one?
              As I said, I’ll be watching any eclipses visible from home but I’m not expecting anything. I hope we don’t get a big “Millerite” type movement going with people selling all their earthly goods in expectation of a rapture or something. But maybe it will arouse some interest in bible prophecy that would last beyond the inevitable disappointment as it did in the case of the Millerites.
              As for the “it has begun” I can’t help you there. The antichrist’s 7-year Israeli peace plan has not happened yet, therefore the tribulation has not yet begun. Guess you’re on your own on that one.
              I just found out that the eclipse next month will only be seen from the south pole and a bit of south America so there goes my big eclipse party 😦
              Oh well.

              • Hey james,

                Re: Eclipses are too common an event to be used as an announcement of the Son of God, don’t you think? My Answer is: only if they don’t occur on a Jewish Holy Day! The fact that these upcoming Eclipses are occuring on Jewish Holy Days is significant and should not be taken lightly. The last 3 partial solar eclipses since 2008, 2009 and upcoming July 11th 2010 are ALL ON THE SAME JEWISH HOLY DAY-3 years in a row! The odds of this happening are well, phenomenal.

                Regarding: “It has Begun”….This very well could have meant that the seals were opened/opening. It appears that ever since our recent presidential election in Nov 2008…”all hell has broken loose”…..don’t you agree?

                • I guess we will see if the antarctic eclipse next month will be more significant than the last three. Perhaps it will mean more to the Jews than Christians.

                  As for the Obama thing, I don’t see it. I thought all hell broke loose with Bush – 911 and two wars. Obama hasn’t done much except try to make health care more universal.

                  They said the same stuff about Bush, but if it were true, Christ would be here by now.
                  And I’m sure you can appreciate the fact that I would never base my expectations on Christ’s return on three words heard or dreamed by someone I don’t know. If it is not in the scriptures, I can’t ever assume it is true.

                  Hopefully you will eventually figure out what is means and I’m sure it will be meaningful to you, but I’m not counting on it being of great biblical significance – much like the eclipses I guess.

                  But time will tell…

                  • James,

                    Obama has done more than just change a few laws….He LIES continuously starting with who he is and where he is from…he quotes from the Koran, admits he is muslim, and mocks G-D and his scriptures! I do understand that you would hesitate to understand or believe “it has begun” from someone you don’t know….as far as scripture is..start with Acts 2 and then Corinthians 13…the “it has begun” is the Holy Spirit/G-D answering a request that I made as a little girl. So all that matters really is that I know what he meant and for those who do understand how the Holy Spirit communicates would understand as well…it will be a quickening per se in your spirit…intellect actually will interfere. Hope this helps.

                    FAITH: substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen…Faith and Intellect/reasoning are constantly at odds with one another…Intellect causes Fear/doubt/unbelief/skepticism….while Faith causes just the opposite!

                    • So are you claiming, as many do, that Obama is the antichrist? What do you propose he is going to do that will tip us off that he is?
                      Will the world vote him in as the head of the new world order in 2012? No one seems to have a clue beyond the fact that he is now president.
                      I’m looking for real signs to fulfill prophecy, not generic claims that could fit a thousand other people.
                      Sorry, but I have heard hundreds of claims from big-time TV preachers who swear God talks to them on a regular basis, and none of them have predicted anything that any Hollywood “psychic” couldn’t have done just as easily.
                      You probably don’t believe these people either, no matter how famous they are so you shouldn’t expect anyone else to believe you either.
                      I’m sure that to you, the message came directly from God, but if you were a true biblical prophet, he would have given you a lot more definitive information than just three vague words. Therefore I can’t believe the prophecy is meant for the entire world. Maybe it was and maybe He will someday make you as famous as Billy Graham so you can bring the prophecy to the whole world, and maybe then I will pay more attention to it, but probably not. I wouldn’t even believe Reverend Graham.
                      Sorry but that’s my logical, scientific upbringing, so please don’t take it personally. I have several friends that have heard from the Holy Spirit as you have and I don’t try to put down their experiences. I simply admit I don’t understand them and leave it at that.
                      In any case I do hope you figure out what “it” is, but I don’t think it will have much to do with Obama, other than maybe a “timing” issue which will culminate years from now – but I don’t think it will end up being a biblical issue.
                      Please feel free to make some predictions here so we can all get prepared for “it.”
                      Thanks

                    • James,

                      I have NEVER said or claimed to be a prophet…please….I should’ve just kept it to myself and observed privately. I only spoke the TRUTH and G-D knows this. When the Holy Spirit talks to you it comes completely out of the blue…you will be thinking about something else then He interjects whatever He chooses to say to you. The things of the spirit are just that-I cannot help you other than guide you to where I learned about it-Acts 2. As far as Obama being the Antichrist-this is not what the HS told me-all HE said was “it has begun”. And then in Feb 2010, again, out of the blue, He told me that I needed to learn the Jewish Holidays…and then again he reminded me shortly before Passover. From your various posts, you sound as if you are educated and skeptical of most everything. May I suggest that you use this education that G-D has given you and actually research the scriptures on the Holy Spirit and how it is possible for someone as ordinary as myself to be able to hear His voice. Marianne and others hear the shofar, same day, in the spirit….I did not hear it but was told the above instead. Knowing the scriptures, it is explained that we are ALL the body of Christ and in Corinthians 13 it explains how different gifts are determined to each part of the body for service and to G-Ds glory. Your a smart person James, again, may I suggest you look further into it before dismissing something that is…in simple terms…just pretty darn cool!!!

  93. recent headline for Papacy in 2010:
    http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL852380020090511

    • Hi Lyndsey,
      You are right – I am very skeptical. I require proof before I believe anything I read. Even the bible. The bible has proven to be true both physically and mathematically, that is why I believe it. There is a lot in it I don’t fully understand so I don’t dismiss that the Holy Spirit can visit some people for whatever reasons.
      But as you must realize, I need to be cautious. You have to remember an ancient pope once told the church that the Holy Spirit told him to move the sabbath to Sunday, and for most of my life I believed him. Hundreds of millions still do.
      So you will have to pardon my skepticism. It‘s just part of my nature.
      But then you already knew that.

      • James,

        I remember thinking how “crazy” these people were who spoke in another language/tongues. It actually drove me nuts! I was very skeptical. I had to have proof and knowing the scriptures were true (starting with the basics), that is where I went to find it. It was also suggested by a friend that I also read “Baptism in the Holy Spirit” by Smith Wigglesworth..
        http://www.amazon.com/Smith-Wigglesworth-Holy-Spirit-WIGGLESWORTH/dp/0883685442

        After receiving the Baptism-I was estatic and MAD! I had been raised Baptist and felt lied to! How in the world could they preach and preach and just ‘skip over’ something like this…something as awesome as this! Then came the gifts….that is another story…and I failed miserably-that is a “to be continued”. But the point is, G-D wants us to have the HOly Spirit so as to be better prepared for HIS service and calling upon our lives. Further, to also be ABLE to a) understand the scriptures (the HS leads us into all truth-He wrote the Bible so my “educated” guess is that HE knows what HE was talking about. And b) know when someone is not being honest/discernment when needed (such as when the pope decided to change the sabbath to Sunday and saying that the HS told him so)…by having the HS inside us..(baptism=submersion) then the HS would “quicken” us to the truth or non-truth of his statement…The Holy Spirit is the sweetest…and very much “to the point” when communicating. He will NEVER go against the scriptures and it is quite amazing how He will often “bring to my remembrance” various scriptures. Years ago, I met a certain individual for the very first time-I knew NOTHING of this person-a total stranger. As soon as I shook this person’s hand (being introduced) the HS said clear as day…”this man is a child molestor”!..WOW-imagine the look on my face! There was no doubt that this came from the HS-“my sheep know my voice” and lo and behold, approx 8 mths later, this person was arrested and sent to prison for some kind of child pornography ring that went all the way to Austraila! Scientifically, there was no way I could have known any of this without a background check, hiring a private investigator etc…but only if I suspected something…yet all it took was 1 sentence spoken to me in less than 3 seconds to warn me of who and what this person was SO AS TO PROTECT MY SON! He is simply amazing-and I would love for you to meet Him!!! 🙂

        • Hi Lyndsey,
          I did some research last night about the relevance of eclipses in prophecy and I discovered some interesting things. First of all we all know we are not to listen to witches, soothsayers or astrologers and the like. What I did not consider was what definition of astrology is. Astrology is using the movements of the sun, moon and planets to foretell future events. Then I discovered this verse:
          Jer 10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
          Here a true prophet warns us not to look to signs in the heavens, so apparently he is as much a skeptic on eclipses as I am.

          I also ran across the following verses which I tend to follow as well:

          Eze 13:2 Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel that prophesy, and say thou unto them that prophesy out of their own hearts, Hear ye the word of the LORD;

          Eze 13:3 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!

          1Jo 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

          Deu 18:20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.
          Deu 18:21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
          Deu 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that [is] the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, [but] the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

          I always keep these things in mind when I study non-biblical prophets like Nostradamus, Edgar Cayce and others. It’s good to be skeptical.

          • These are good verses and also the reason why I am VERY CAREFUL; I always question and even second guess myself, but when the HS speaks and is undeniable-He makes sure you know it is HIM. I am not a prophetess, and it never occured to me that anyone would think that. I simply know what the HS has told me-He is talking to me-not anyone else.

            And as far as the “signs in the heavens”…this can be confusing because even Jesus made many references to the signs in the heavens…Matthew 24:29 for starters… 29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

            30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
            And….Luke 21:11 “There will be great earthquakes, famines and pestilences in various places, and fearful events and great signs from heaven.”

            Acts 2:19 “I will show wonders in heaven above And signs in the earth beneath: Blood and fire and vapor of smoke.”

            • Just to clarify..” I simply know what the HS has told me-He is talking to me-not anyone else.” The HS DOES talk to others…I was simply saying that the “it has begun” and “you need to learn the Jewish Holidays” is the HS talking to me-a personal message/instruction. Until G-D says otherwise. I am NOT a prophetess.

            • So it is my understanding, from what Jesus told us, that we are to look towards the heavens for “signs” of His return.

      • And as far as the “it” is…one of my first thoughts after hearing the HS say “it has begun” was “He (AC) is here…the stage is set…and all the players are in place”. It is important to note that months prior to OBama being elected I had a horse accident that July 2008. I was in the “dark” per se as to what was even going on with the election, due to recovery, and what others thought of Obama until the night he was elected (when the HS spoke) and soon after the election. I know without a shadow of doubt that Obama is indeed one of the “players”-He is very much a part of bringing the AC on the scene. How soon this is I do not know-I can only give “my educated guess” based upon the upcoming eclipses 2014/2015 being on Jewish HOly Days-I know by reading the scriptures and learning the Holy Days-AS the HS also told me to do-that this will be significant. No, I do not know who the AC is…and I am not willing to commit to saying that Obama is the AC-(although I have to say it isn’t looking too good for him-being muslim, quoting from the Koran, wanting to divide Jerusalem, treating PM Nethanyahu horribly upon his recent visit to the White House AND most importantly, mocking G-D and the Holy Bible during his press conferences) AND if the HS wanted me to know who the AC is he could very easily tell me, for he is very much “to the point”…perhaps I am not to know. I do know that when I was diligently searching for his identity a few months ago the HS told me not to focus on who the AC is-but to focus on G-D. It doesn’t matter who the AC is because we all know how it ends!!

        • The AC gets in power peacefully and by intrigue. That does describe his campaign. Now it is wait and see…he could be setting the stage, or just be “him.”

          • I agree. As I have told my friends and family (some who LOVE Obama), that putting all religion and views aside, Obama is articulate, charming, educated, handsome…a “presence”…etc….but then add in what the scriptures say and WOW, sounds like you know who huh?…”you know them by their fruits..” well, lets see, Obama: lied about where he was born…follows the Islamic faith; quotes from the Koran (Quaran); Mocks G-D and the scriptures (shortly after he was sworn in); Supports Islam-NOT Israel; wants to divide Jerusalem in favor of the Palestinians; RUDE to PM Nethanyahu….list goes on….if we are to “judge” by these actions/fruits….what kind of “tree” are we looking at then.

            • gee….. I really wish people would stop calling Obama “articulate, charming, educated, handsome”

              he stumbles over his words, and speaks from a teleprompter, he is arrogant, not charming, and he is stupid and shallow, knowing nothing of American history, culture, values, economics, political theory, government, or even math, since he spends money that is not there.

              and……he looks like a chimpanzee…so how is he handsome?

              sigh

            • ps… he was probably a D student in school, which is why they sealed his academic records….

              he got into college by affirmative action, and a quota for blacks, not by being highly qualified, with high scores.

  94. Lyndsey,
    I am so glad you have seen the light. When the bulb comes on all of a sudden everything makes sense. All the prophecy fits into place and it is almost complete. All that is left is the recombining of the revived Rome (EU) with the restored Vatican (1929) and we will have a revived Holy Roman Empire. They will force the same mark of the beast they used in the dark ages, after the council of Laodicea.
    “All the world will worship the beast” simply means all the Christians will unite under Rome and the pope, which they are doing as we speak and worship the Pope as “The Vicar of the Son of God” – his title. 1.3 billion Catholics are already there – more than half the Christian world. The rest will soon follow.
    It is simple and it makes sense, and it is nearly fulfilled. No New World Order, no charismatic political dictator, no chipping the world’s population. It’s all here and almost nobody even sees it yet.
    Congratulations on having your eyes opened. Its a great feeling to know that so much of God’s words have already been fulfilled. That is all the proof I need to know he is truly God.
    Now don’t be discouraged – many will be against you and say you are nuts. (Just read this blog page to see what I’m up against) But you can take comfort that you are no longer part of “the whole world” who will worship the beast, and not even know it!
    May God bless us all.

    • Please note that the first minute of this video has been snippeted – the sound has been cut and pasted in – just like you see done on the late-night talk shows when they want to get someone to say something nutty. Here it is not as obvious but notice that the video is shot from a distance and some critical points are when he is not facing the camera.
      Do some research and find the original unedited footage and see what he actually said.
      DON’T SIMPLY BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU SEE ON YOUTUBE!

      • Michelle Obama says “obama’s home country, Kenya” and refers to Obama as being “Kenyan”

  95. You aint in Kansas anymore!

  96. I think the beast will be the leader of the New World Order Global government. We are close to having a Global government now with the WTO, global court, Law of the Sea treaty, and the CFR pushing for a North American Union.

    The beast will have to get a head wound first, and live, then we will know who it is.

  97. There is a difference between using astrology (including eclipses) to predict the future and looking towards the sky for something big to happen – like a meteor strike for example. As I said originally, I believe eclipses are for too common, regardless of the dates, to be what Jesus was referring to. I would expect something far more spectacular – something everyone on earth couldn’t miss. Solar eclipses are only visible on a small track maybe a mile or so wide over a short trek across the earth’s surface. They are far too localized to be considered a global event.
    People have always yearned to see signs from God and to be a witness to fulfillment of prophecy. I witness such things on a regular basis but on a minor scale. I too am anxious to see something on a grand scale, so I share your enthusiasm about the eclipses. I’m just saying I wouldn’t get my hopes too high on this one.
    Let’s first see what happens on July 11th.
    I’ll be looking…

  98. http://www.withoneaccord.org/assets/images/freedownloads/StraightTalkonPeterandPapacy.pdf

  99. In reference to John being shown the future event. Ever considered Great Britain being the super power (beast) and America (false prophet) which is a daughter of Great Britain, (whom is secretly controlled by GB) and them bringing us under the NWO, with the United Nations, etc? Protestantism was and is the dominant authority of these two from history and is also within these circles of leaders today too.. In the history of America, you see the protestants being just as controlling of their religion as Rome was. The Puritians were very controlling and unfair, among other protestant sects, putting to death men and women for many reasons – for witchcraft and etc.. GB and America are based on Protestant beliefs, rather than Catholic beliefs.. And money seems to be the god of both these nations.. I used to be a protestant and with all due respect, I felt I was deceived in so many ways by their beliefs that I found not biblical. Not to bash any religions here, just trying to take this into consideration.. God bless us all…

    • Better to be a child of G-d then associated with any religion. Jesus was not religious. He challenged the religious leaders which led to his crucifixion. Something to think about….

    • The idea that America and Britain are the beasts of Revelation 13 sounds intriguing and you can, as with many other hypotheses, come up with some fairly logical bits of interpretations, but when you look more closely, it all falls apart.
      You have to remember that Revelation 13 is in the middle of a long prophecy that actually begins in the book of Daniel and ends only after 9 more chapters of Revelation. Therefore we must be careful not to make the classic mistake in interpreting the bible, of taking individual chapters or verses out of context and failing to look at the big picture.
      So first of all, we need to go back to Daniel to determine who the first 4 beasts were as Revelation will be a continuation of tat story. Daniel describes in his statue vision four successive kingdoms that were to control God’s people. (All other kingdoms are irrelevant). He described these kingdoms as beasts (or animals) which included (from first to last) the lion (Babylon) followed by the bear (Medo-Persia), which was then conquered by the leopard (Greece) and finally a huge monster kingdom with ten horns which was the Roman empire. Any history book will confirm all of this.
      Now we look at the first beast of Revelation 13.

      Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

      Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as [the feet] of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

      Right away we are referred to the last beast of Daniel. The ten horns are the ten “states” of the Roman empire and the leopard, bear and lion refer to the other beast kingdoms of Daniel 7, which Rome absorbed.

      Many people take these out of context and claim that the bear is modern Russia and the lion is England since there animals are sometimes associated with these nations. From there they come up with all sorts of explanations for the rest. But we must remember that the prophecy is continuous – like a novel or news story. It is the history of the world in regards to God’s people. All we need today is a history book to figure it out – and it fits! How about that – God knew the future! Go figure.
      So to discover what the first beast of Revelation 13 is we only have to refer to history and see what happened to the Roman empire. Well, in 538 AD emperor Justinian made his uncle the pope and left the empire in his hands. The ten sectors broke up into ten separate countries (horns) but a new small horn, the Vatican, retained overall power and made war on three countries and tore them up from the roots (Daniel) leaving seven crowns.
      The Holy Roman Empire lasted until 1898 when it came to a violent end under the hands of Napoleon. It lasted 1260 years. Now note the following:

      Rev 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty [and] two months.

      At 30 days to the Hebrew month this comes to 1260 days and since a day is as a year in prophecy, this means the first beast would last 1260 years. Perfect fit which will not work with the British empire.
      So what happened after the fall of the Holy Roman Empire? Well, most of God’s people (now the Christians, not the Jews) were in the hands of the Vatican which became a “nation-state” in 1939 by order of Benito Mussolini. Even today, most Christians on earth are Roman Catholics (1.3 billion in fact) so we can confidently say that the Vatican empire (beast) has power over God’s people, still.
      Now let’s look later into Revelation. The woman in Revelation 17 is an apostate church riding a beast. So if the second beast is the Vatican, the woman must be the Roman Catholic Church. Again, it fits. And look what is happening in Revelation at this point. Babylon is being destroyed prior to the second coming when Christ will marry his bride, the true church. Babylon represents the paganism handed down from the days of ancient Babylon all the way to the Roman empire, which entered the early Christian church when it was merged with Roman religion under Justinian. Most Protestants know that it was these pagan, non-biblical church practices are the root of the protestant revolution. We would all have to agree that the largest church in Christianity can not be the bride of Christ. It must be destroyed, or at least stripped to the bone. This is what is described in Revelation. It is not the destruction of Islam or the U.S. or any country. Why would God do that? What purpose would it serve? Pure hate or vengeance? Not His style – He’s a God of love, remember?
      As for the New World Order, there won’t be one, at least not a political one. According to pope John Paul II, he taught that the New World Order is holy unity and worked to re-unite the world‘s protestant churches with the Vatican, and eleven denominations agreed to it in 2000 and are slowly coming back under the vatican. All the (Christian) world will worship the beast (Vatican). Don’t look for a world dictator to be and Antichrist. There is no Antichrist in Revelation only a beast and a false prophet. These are the Vatican and its image – the pope. The pope is already the leader of most of the world’s Christians and his title is the substitute for Christ – in latin – Vicarius Filii Dei – the vicar of the son of God. If you add up the Roman numerals in that title it adds up to 666. His other title is “Holy Father” which Christ used to refer to His father, Yahweh. So the pope claims to be God and all that is called God. And no catholic questions it.
      You can see that most of the Book of Revelation has already come to pass. A testimony to the word and power of God. The answer to the mystery is right within the Christian church, there is no need to look elsewhere. God’s book is for God’s people, not another religion or some modern country.
      Consider this next time you read Revelation and see if it doesn’t make perfect sense. It’s not that complicated when you keep things simple. Once you get the big picture, the details all fall into place.
      God Bless.

      • “All the (Christian) world will worship the beast (Vatican).”

        So I guess we need to stop calling ourselves Christians if this associates us with the Catholic Church. I want NOTHING to do with them.

      • Hi James,

        Yes it is intriguing! And I have studied the theory of Revelation that you are presenting, and I used to be convinced of it, until I came across another theory that does put GB and American in the making of the beast of revelation. And it made much more sense to me than the Rome theory, ESPECIALLY in the view of history, as you were saying. I agree it is an ongoing story that is taking place and that is why it makes all the more sense with American and GB with the United nations. I do disagree that their wont be a new world order. It is all over the news and the leaders do not make a secret about making a NWO.
        Please take the time to watch or study this theory. It can be found at http://www.kenkleinproductions.net series called “Cracking the Code”.
        And also, we can only speculate on these things since they are “just theories” and not factual truth. So we should all be careful to keep some regards for others faith in humility, unless the Lord himself has told you other wise.
        Thanks for the information and God bless!

      • Also, where you said no catholic questions the Pope as Father or being called God. You just havent met Catholics who know their bible and history. I assure you there are, you just have to look for them. The bottom line is we all believe what we WANT to believe. And for a while I wanted to believe Rome was the Beast, but then I made a fair clean of my conscience and decided to see the OTHER SIDE of the story. You know there is always two sides to every story, and we should be wise enough to consider this..

  100. Jesus defended the truth – that is why he was crucified. He was VERY religious. He obeyed the Sabbath always and attended the feasts as prescribed by God in the Law and obeyed the whole law fully – because he was without sin. He also believed in earthly authority by telling his apostles regarding the Pharisees, “do what they tell you, but dont follow in their example of hypocrisy” or such.. If we did not have authority as in goverments and laws then the world would be chaotic. The scriptures point this out in Romans, I think its Romans.. But any authority has its evil weeds in it, we just have to not follow in their examples.. So to have authority, even in religion was something Jesus saw as necessary and agreed with.

    • hi Cathy

      Good insights. We do have have to obey earthly authority as it does have a certain amount of order to it. If we disagree, we have to do it peacefully. If we disobey, it can only be when the civil law violates God’s law.

  101. Doesn’t the Roman Church violate G-d’s laws?

  102. When we are forced personally to disobey Gods law is when it interferes with our soul and free will and we should obey God rather than man. And as Marianne said about most churches doing it too – the Protestant churches are full of disregard for God law and the true gospel in some – in my opinion more than the Catholic church. And starting our own church will only get you in deeper confusion and separation at some point, and not going to church is not an option..

    • Not going to church is absolutely an option. G-d is everywhere and I would rather hear what He has to say through His Holy Spirit and His word then I would a pastor, priest or pope any day.

      As far as the protestants disobeying G-d’s laws more than the Catholic Church, that is an incredible stretch to say the least

      Do you honestly believe in your heart that worshiping a statue of a saint or Mary is not violating G-d’s laws? This violates the 1st and 2nd commandment. Changing the sabbath day from Friday to Sunday violates the 4th commandment. Removing the 2nd commandment all together so as to be able to have the statues of “saints” (some are pagan gods by the way) ornately decorate st peters square was nothing less then arrogance and was a direct slap in the face of all that is Holy in that G-d made it clear that NO ONE should take away from His words!

      You can defend your Catholic Church and your pope and your rosary and your mary apparitions all you want Cathy, but I will defend My G-d and all that He represents!

  103. We are not the ones persecuting your beliefs or religion, you are ours. We are just defending our beliefs and religion against your remarks against our faith and giving our opinions since you brought it up. You can defend your views of God all you want, the way you want- no one has prevented that. But to get upset when we defend ours and how we view God from His word and love Him is not really your place to judge us since you are your own authority. I once was in that deception of believing “I knew it all and was right”, and it ended badly. I know now all we can do is love God with all our heart, obey Him and the Lord Jesus and love others as we love ourselves, not just people who believe the way we do, but all people.. God is the one who works in peoples hearts, we should just show them His love..
    And if you consider having statues of saints and Jesus and etc in a church for our remembrance a pagan sin, then I suggest you get rid of all your pictures of loved ones since you are ignorantly worshipping a pagan god… Although, there are some in the church that go too far with it.. But that still doesnt change the fact that other churches disobey Gods law too and I see you wish to ignore that fact.. We actually have mass offered on the actual Sabbath of Sat.. also.. I am not trying to be rude, but I do not wish to debate anymore. I have children that need me. I wish I could say something to make you understand that we love God and are worshipping Him with a clear conscience, and are not worshipping statues and other gods. And even if we were and thought we were worshipping God, do you really think God would condemn us for that? If so, then I see that this dialogue is useless..
    God bless!

    • “And even if we were and thought we were worshipping God, do you really think God would condemn us for that? ”

      Now you know the truth Cathy and so you can’t use that as an excuse.

      What I have listed is only the “tip of the iceberg”. I honestly pray that you “come out of her”.

      Rev 18:4 Then I heard another voice from heaven say: “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues;

    • “I suggest you get rid of all your pictures of loved ones since you are ignorantly worshipping a pagan god…”

      I do not pray to the picture of my loved ones. I do not parade them around in the streets with flowers and fan fair while crying and yelling etc…and how in the world does a picture of my kids equate to a pagan god?

    • G-d’s Ten Commandments are found in Exodus 20.
      Compare to the “catholic ten commandments” found in the above video.

      Here are G-d’s ten commandments:

      “And God spoke all these words, saying: ‘I am the LORD your God…

      ONE: ‘You shall have no other gods before Me.’

      TWO: ‘You shall not make for yourself a carved image–any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.’

      THREE: ‘You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain.’

      FOUR: ‘Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.’

      FIVE: ‘Honor your father and your mother.’

      SIX: ‘You shall not murder.’

      SEVEN: ‘You shall not commit adultery.’

      EIGHT: ‘You shall not steal.’

      NINE: ‘You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.’

      TEN: ‘You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.’

      http://www.allabouttruth.org/10-commandments.htm

  104. Well then, I guess all of society that has any kind of fish statue or any statue in their home that is carved of anything in the earth for decoration or remembrance are going to hell..
    Lindsey, the ignorance of this is astounding! God means if you bow down and worship it as a god.. And as I said before we dont do that, but some do. But that is between them and God..
    Signing out!

    • I wanted to show you how the Catholic church removed the 2nd commandment completely and then took the tenth commandment and made it into 2 separate commandments.

      These commandments were written by the Hand of G-d! I am certain He would not approve of someone taking it upon themselves to change His laws!

      • Lyndsey

        You need to understand WHY people do something, before you assign a negative meaning.

        Your posted photo could be misinterpreted as a “graven image”. So could a piece of Christian jewelry with a cross or sign of the fish on it.

        Catholics believe in the “communion of saints,” where all the saints pray for each other, and intercede for each other. While on earth, it is 2 way. Once in heaven, the departed no longer need prayers but we do. Hence, the requests for them to intercede for us.

        Even though Jesus is the ultimate intercessor, we are all commanded to pray for each other. Catholics see this obligation as continuing after death.

        The statues are not worshiped. They are visual reminders of the saints and their lives, to inspire us to live the same kind of lives.

        Remember we are under grace now. We can pray any day of the week we want.

        • http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=webhp&defl=en&q=define:worship&sa=X&ei=_jPdTKOdC82r8Aa-mJSUDw&sqi=2&ved=0CBMQkAE

          I remember watching a video where the catholics paraded a huge statue of Mary in the streets. To watch them cry over her and follow behind her was nauseating. If this isn’t “worshiping” then what would you call it? When the catholics kiss the feet of their statues is this not worship? When they pray to a statue or a “saint” is this not worshiping? When they adore the Pope (who is JUST A MAN) so much they too parade him around as if he was a king or something while wailing, praising etc is this not worshiping?

          I was there at the vatican in 1991. I saw first hand their reactions. I turned to my classmate and said “you would think they were going to see Jesus or something”.

          It is sad to watch; it is most disturbing to watch. They are brainwashed and blindly follow their rules and rituals set forth by the pope without question.

          Most of them don’t even know that the church removed the 2nd commandment and some are so far gone they probably wouldn’t even care. This is dangerous and you know that.

          I have often wondered if the pope knows how crazy it is; surely he knows he is just a man or does he really buy into it as well.

  105. Rev 17:4The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries.

  106. Cathy,

    I realized today that I have transferred my anger towards the catholic church and what they have done onto you. For this I apologize.

    I do sincerely want the truth to come out to everyone that is still in the catholic church so that they can make a better choice; to know the truth of what the catholic church stands for and represents.

    I can see the danger she represents and if I didn’t care I would remain silent.

  107. No hard feelings.. I have been down the church road and went from protestant to catholic, protestant to etc and they all have their “weeds” – all of them! I understand your wanting to warn people about the evils in the church, (and I do admit there are) but even if you dont believe me, there are just as many evils in the protestant ones.. From my own experiences.. So that is why Revelation would have to refer to the protestant ones also if we view it in that theory of “coming out of her” they have just as many weeds too.. So I go with what Jesus said “to let them remain together and the angels will come and separate the good from the bad at the harvest”.. Thanks for the concern, and hope you understand one day where I am coming from.. God bless!

    • Cathy,
      You are correct about many protestant churches. According to Revelation 17:

      Rev 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

      Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead [was] a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

      The whore of Babylon (paganism) has daughter churches which still have abominations in them.

      Any church that has Sunday services, celebrates Christmas and Easter, uses graven images including paintings of Jesus are harlot churches. Most of modern Christianity has some remnants of paganism rooted in early Christianity. When Christ returns to marry his true church ALL paganism will be destroyed. Christianity will return to what it was at the time of the apostles – the church at Philadelphia (rev. 3) will be a likely model. Everything added since then is unnecessary crap and has to go, no matter how sincere the intentions.

      There is the rub… Catholics (et al.) believe what they are doing is fine with God because they sincerely love God and they believe He loves them and doesn’t mind if they stray from strict biblical principles. They say “God doesn’t care what day we pray on, as long as we are faithful to him.” If he didn’t care what day we pray He would never have written the 4th commandment, in stone, and told His people to obey His laws.

      This is what the entire Book of Revelation is all about. Cleansing the church before Jesus comes back to marry it. It is not about Islamic empires or New World Orders, it is about His people and how the disobedient ones will be punished for straying from His word.


      It is addressed to all of us and it time to wake up and smell the word of God. Get with His program, dump the paganism or He will dump it for you.

  108. Not sure what role that Rome plays after hearing this but this guy makes a lot of sense…

  109. Walid Shoebat recogized the verse in Revelations regarding the “number of a man…”. Walid is a former muslim and he recogized when reading the original writing as arabic and explains that what was originally written by John, as John saw it, is translated as “in the name of allah”….

  110. Exactly what was the “Greco-Roman“ empire? Greece (the leopard of Daniel) was destroyed by Rome. There was no shared empire like Medo-Persia. How could Daniel (God) not have predicted the biggest, longest and most successful empire in world history? And John wrote Revelation under Roman rule. How could he have missed it too? His first beast is identical to Daniel’s fourth. How can one be greek and the next Islamic? The statue of Daniel is one solid piece – the kingdoms are sequential – no gaps. The story is also continuous – no gaps. From Daniel thru Revelation it is one single chain of events. It is the record of God’s peoples, Jews, then Christians from Babylon to the present. You can’t just jump to any time and place to further an opinion. This is why we have so many crazy interpretations out there.
    Both beasts here are Rome. Daniel’s is the Roman empire and John‘s is the next one – the Holy Roman Empire. Again – NO GAPS!
    It is all the same story line – plain and simple.

    • hi james,

      The view that the beast is greco-roman comes from Daniel also. The Statue of the kingdoms was in Daniel 2.

      I believe scripture explains scripture.

      Realize also that the 4 kingdoms were again predicted in Daniel 7
      1. Lion – babylon
      2. Bear – medo persian
      3. leopard – greece
      4th beast – mix of something with iron teeth, 10 horns, devouring the whole earth , persecuting the saints.

      Not finished yet, then comes Daniel 8:
      vision of goat ( Greece again) defeating the ram ( Persia)

      Now, skip to Revelation 13, which further explains the 4th beast from Daniel:
      10 horns
      body of leopard ( greece)
      feet of bear ( persia)
      mouth of lion ( babylon)
      persecutes the saints

      “Greco- roman” comes from fusing Daniel with Revelation descriptions.

      While the feet of the statue is iron (rome) and clay, the clay is what?

      Somehow the mix of rome and the first 3 beasts of Daniel get together and make a monster ( 4th beast)

  111. Using your logic, the first beast of Revelation would be a babylon-Persia-Greco-Roman empire. No such empire ever existed. What actually happened that each one defeated the previous empire, taking over their territories but also absorbing some of their cultures in the process, particularly their pagan religious practices. This is historical fact which cannot be refuted. John is referring to this fact when he describes his first beast – the Holy Roman Empire which followed the Roman empire when it collapsed into ten countries (horns) and the Vatican (little horn). His beast was a religious empire, supposedly Christian, but it had inherited many pagan practices dating all the way back to Babylon.
    Mystery Babylon, seen later in Revelation refers to these paganisms. Some could be called Greekisms – those developed by Plato and other greek philosophers, and romanisms such as sun(day worship, vestal virgins (nuns) and many others. But John simply calls them all as “Babylon.”
    So yes, the Holy Roman Empire showed similarities to the leopard, the bear and the lion in terms of religious practices (and isn’t that what God really cares about?) but not the physical land masses of those defunct empires. The Book of Revelation isn’t about countries – it is about the church. Its about the marriage of Christ to His church and what has to be done to prepare for that. He doesn’t need to destroy Islam or any other false religions – He has to straighten out His own church, that is the purpose of this book.
    As for the feet of the statue, there were two divisions of the Roman empire, one for each leg. The ten toes represent the ten horns/crowns/countries that Rome broke up into when the empire collapsed and the Holy Roman Empire began. The mixture of strong iron and weak clay represents the dissolution of the once great empire.
    And don’t forget that the little horn (the Vatican) was to uproot three horns by the roots, and history shows that three of those ten original countries (Vandals, Heruli and Ostrogoths) were wiped out by order of the Pope.
    And note that in Daniel, the fourth beast is not a combination of the first three. It is a strong and terrible empire that broke their enemies to pieces and took over the known world. Only John refers to the first three when describing his first beast. Daniel is clearly describing Rome as a political kingdom (which it was) but John is describing a religio-political empire – something “divers from the rest” as Daniel described the “little horn.” And as I mentioned, the reference to previous kingdoms is only about the religious practices since John’s first beast is religious in nature.
    In fact, while most of the book of Daniel is political, most of the Book of Revelation revolves around religion – and Christianity in particular. Once you can grasp this, the rest will fall more easily in place.

    • hi James

      So we differ.

      I see the 4th beast as not only a successor, but a combination of all the previous beasts, as described in Rev 13. I see Islam as more of a threat to the world than the Catholic church.

      • Islam my indeed be a greater physical threat to western nations, with jihad and all, but it is no threat to God. He is not that concerned with the military power of Islam. He IS concerned however with His own church and how it has become apostate over the centuries. The warning of Revelation is not for the Muslims, but for His people, which is why He asks His people to come out of her. He is not talking to Muslims here. He is not concerned with our physical lives as much as our spiritual ones. An apostate church, especially one as large as the catholic church can cause more spiritual damage than al-qaeda can inflict physically.
        Most readers of Revelation have lost sight of this fact, and unfortunately will suffer the consequences.

        • Why is it that all the nations mentioned in the scriptures to be destroyed in G-d’s wrath are Muslim?

          • Don’t get me wrong James, after reading your thoughts on the roman empire, I too was convinced until I came across Walid Shoebat. This caused me to question both and to wonder who plays the more dominant role.

            In the above videos with Walid Shoebat, he mentions that the theory of the Roman Empire being the beast is allegorical versus the literal.

            He stated that the theory of Islam being the beast is the literal fitting into the allegorical of which it does.

            The allegorical (Roman Empire) fitting into the literal does not fit.

            **The allegorical is found in Revelations whereas the literal is found in Daniel and Isaiah.

          • lyndsey,
            I believe you are referring to Eze 38-39 or the war of Gog. In that war the nation of israel is attacked by its Islamic neighbors. The war is ended by fire and ice raining down from the sky by an act of God. This is not the destruction of Mystery Babylon mentioned in Revelation. Mystery Babylon was an apostate religion from ancient Babylon which was carried on down to the Roman empire through successive conquests. Elements of it were incorporated into early Roman Christianity along with other pagan practices which are still with us today. The best example is the birthday of the false God Tammuz, born on Dec. 25th and now celebrated as Christmas. This kind of stuff is the Babylon that will be destroyed before Christ returns. The war of Gog will happen before all of this, so you are correct in saying that God will destroy Islam (or at least their armies), but it has nothing to do with the Book of Revelation. Unfortunately, many believers tend to combine the two prophecies.
            As for Shoebat, he makes points I’ve heard many times before and it makes some sense if you take some of the scriptures out of context, then build up a foundation of false assumptions to make the point. The whole concept of a New World Order is based on a single line in Daniel and the idea of an Antichrist person never appears in Revelation. And the idea of a mark being a barcode or a subdermal chip wasn’t even thought about until the technology was invented. Some people can take a few words and build an entire story around them, and they can sound very convincing.
            But what they don’t understand is how God thinks, and how he has acted in the past. When was the last time he destroyed an entire religion just because it was false? Why didn’t he destroy the pagan Babylon instead of putting His own people into captivity there? He only destroys the enemies of Israel if they attack His people, as in the war of Gog mentioned earlier. But wipe out a religion for just being wrong? Not His style. That will be OUR job. He will use us in the millennium to teach the gospel to the whole world. It will be up to them to believe or not. His only weapon is eternal life – His to give or withhold depending on whether one believes or not.
            God only chastises or punishes His own people when they go astray. That fact is the theme of almost all prophecy, and the Book of Revelation is no exception. When you look at it in this light, the truth becomes more clear.

  112. Vatican takes anti-Israel position. Catholics join Pope.

    http://israelinsider.net/forum/topics/giulio-meotti-the-vatican?xg_source=msg_mes_network

    • The Pope was once a Hitler youth. I wonder if his feelings about Jews lead down the road for a curse. You would think, he among all of the Catholics would understand what G-d said about those who curse Israel.

      I guess he forgot.

  113. Queen of Heaven and Jezebel…..same thing/person/spirit? hmmmm

    http://www.christian-faith.com/forjesus/jezebel-spirit

  114. HP
    Wasn’t it St. Malachy that predicted that the 112th pope would be evil? what will you do then, since we are on #111?
    You also say the catholics are the elite of the christians. you are welcome to have that honor, for the Jesus says the in his Kingdom the first shall be last.

    Salvation for us protestents is not based on works, but on God’s grace alone as Paul said in ephesians. The works for us protestents are the works of the spirit, not of ourselves. Our sanctification is done by the spirit, not by a church. Our relationship with Christ is a personal one, we do not need Mary or any other Saint to intercede for us. Living by faith, Means that we believe that the sacrifice of Christ on the cross was sufficient to cover all our sins, past present and future, and that we humans were not and never can be worthy to receive that gift. Yet God by his grace has chosen to give it to us.

    It is not about the church you go to that will save you, it is the grace of God that saves. That is what the protest of the protestents was mainly about. The church put itself in the position that belongs only to God. Many protestent churches have also fallen into that trap as well. Where two or three are gathered in his Name (JESUS) is the church.

    • Amen Dru! Well Said! 🙂

    • The prophecy of saint malachy is just that … popes and their description … nothing else. And there is nothing new in it, because we all know tribulation will come anyway. Pope Benedict the 16th is the 256th pope, this included the ante-pope. (those who were exiled due to political turmoils)

      So if one would count 112 only … then catholics are pretty much over the time frame.

      Some folks interpret it by omitting the ante-popes. which put the current pope as the “second to the last pope” or “the last pope” … depending on whose forgery they count, because until now the inclusion of “peter the roman” is still on debate … :- )

      People wants to make “that day” to come, yet when it comes they will realize that the measuring stick that will be used against them is longer than they expected … work towards mercy, instead of judgement … be careful what you preach and wish for.

      Because if you profess to be a Christian, more will be asked of you (first is last, last is first).

      Works vs Faith (sorry not grace) … that was the issue between James and Paul then; and Luther and the RCC now. But peter already affirmed the position of the One True Church. (Acts 15:7-11)

      Sola Gracia had explicitly affirmed in the year 529 in the Council of Orange, which condemned the Pelagian heresy … it was luther who called the epistle of james a “gospel of straw”, Luther reads the bible so much that he failed on Church History course, bigtime.

  115. hi HP

    I will forward your comment to the guest author who wrote this post. I agree that sometimes people blame everything on the Roman Church, when there are problems in their church as well.

    • Marianne
      I did not think that what I said stepped too far. As you may or may not know, I come from a protestent background, yet do not belong to any “church denomiation”. I was merely trying to point out to HP that it is not the church you belong to that will save you, but rather it is God’s grace. I made a point about protestents protesting against this notion in the catholic church, yet they themselves are building “Church denominations”, and placing their faith in their denomination being in the right with God. These institutions built by man, are the cause of this exclusivity, and prevent what is the true church from coming together. It is not the buildings, nor the leaders that make a church, it is the people. so long as the church mirrors the institutions of man, placing man on a pedestal, they are mirroring the authority structures of this world. The true church is where two or three are gathered in his name, the only authority is God. Read what Paul said on who should be the elders of the church, It was those who were the most humble, Not the ones that exalt themselves. It is not a protestant VS. Catholic issue here.
      As for the St malachy issue, the only time I had heard of him was on the other Post that had a video of him. I probably should have researched it more if as HP said it was added to his prophecy. My mistake.

      • I think the concept of ministerial church with socialism got mixed up on this post.

        The variation of interpretation creates denominations … it was witnessed by the apostles themselves, from St. Paul, St. John and St. Jude epistles regarding the 1st century apostates.

        Even in the modern era between the latin and eastern rite; for just a single word “filioque”, create schism.

        Jesus never said He is writing a Bible … rather He said, the paraclete will come.

        Without the Holy Spirit, reading the Bible will just create more quesions than answers.

        It is important that you look for the true “denomination” … there you will find the teaching passed down to the apostles, preserved by the Holy Spirit throughout the passage of time.

        This “personalization” of Jesus, undermines the universality of His sacrifice.

    • Now that I look at your response a little closer, you were replying to HP and her concern. OOPS! not to me

  116. HP
    I did not know that the 112th pope was added later, the only video I saw on it said it was all part of one prophecy, I should have done my homework on it.

    Please read what I wrote to Marrianne above. I meant no disrespect.

    You are a Maronite are you not? If so, I Just read up on them yesterday in my research. It is amazing how they survived all those years under the Muslim occupancies in Syria and Lebanon. I will be praying for you and your church.
    If you are a Maronite, perhaps it was the Lord’s will for us to communicate, perhaps that is why I was reading up on them.
    I agree that most protestant churches are swaying from the course God intended for them, but there are still Christians amongst them. People who believe in the trinity and divinity of Jesus, and that salvation is ONLY through God’s Grace. It has always been my intention to show people of different sects, that we have this in common, and this is the most important thing that we share as brothers and sisters in Christ. Unity in the church should be from Our common belief and not our submission to a particular “church denomination”, whether protestent or catholic or orthodox etc.

  117. Hi HP,

    From what the scriptures say, Jesus returns to Jerusalem. His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives and then there will be an earthquake. Jesus will rule from the New Jerusalem.

    It doesn’t mention Rome at all.

    Zechariah 14:4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south

    Zechariah 14:8 On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half to the eastern sea and half to the western sea, in summer and in winter.

    Micah 4:2 Many nations will come and say, “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob. He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths.” The law will go out from Zion, the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

    Revelation 21:2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

    Revelation 21:10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.

    http://bible.cc/revelation/21-2.htm

    May I ask why your bible doesn’t have the book of Revelations? This is a very important book and needs to be read at least once so to get an idea of where we are currently and where we are heading.

  118. HP wrote “From Matt 7:21-23 we can read that one christian group isn’t accepted by God. That group isn’t the Ortodox or Chatolics”

    This verse is not talking about denominations/christian groups. This verse is talking about anyone who doesn’t do the WILL of G-d.

    21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven (doeth THE WILL OF MY FATHER).

    So we ask ourselves what is the Will of G-d?

    To follow the ten commandments
    One of the commandments is to keep the sabbath day (Saturday)
    One of the commandments is against idolatry (2nd one)

    But since these are sometimes hard to do because we ALL SIN and fall short of the Glory of G-d, then we can be confident in the blood of Jesus Christ in COVERING OUR SINS. So this leads us to G-d’s son-Jesus Christ/Yeshua….the only way to the Father. Romans 3:23

    So, the will of G-d is To also believe upon G-d’s son, Jesus Christ/Yeshua. To believe his son died for our sins, therefore covering our sins when we ask G-d sincerely to forgive us IN JESUS NAME. And that Jesus rose again on the 3rd day so that he would ascend to the right throne of G-d and go and prepare a place for US! Mark 16:19

    To pray “our Father, who art in heaven, holy is thy name they kingdom come THY WILL BE DONE” in JESUS NAME

    and To know and understand that there is only one way to the Father and that this is through his SON, Jesus Christ/Yeshua.

    John 14:6Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

    Anyone else understand this scripture to mean this as well? And what else would be considered “the will of G-d”?

  119. HI HP,

    You quoted “Romans 8:9: But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. ”

    I am a protestant I guess since I am not catholic and I am full of the Holy Spirit!! I received the baptism in the Holy Spirit in Dec 1988 just like the apostles at the time of Pentecost and He now DWELLS IN ME! I also pray in many languages given to me by the Holy Spirit. This is referred to as tongues.

    Many protestants don’t grasp this yet, but I believe they will and soon, in Yeshua’s name. But just because the Holy Spirit has yet to DWELL IN THEM does NOT mean that they do not have the Spirit of Christ!! The Spirit of Christ comes when anyone believes upon the Son of the Most High G-d of Israel! This would never happen unless the Holy Spirit was involved for it is through the HOLY SPIRIT that this TRUTH is even revealed; the HS bears witness to THE SON OF G-D/Yeshua/Jesus Christ!

    Additionally, G-d tells us this in John 4:22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”

    Notice first that SALVATION is from THE JEWS (meaning Yeshua/Jesus the Messiah and Son of G-d). Secondly, notice TRUE worshipers will worship the Father in SPIRIT and TRUTH.

    What does this mean? To worship the Father in Spirit means to worship Him through His HOLY SPIRIT and by doing so we are worshiping in TRUTH because the Holy Spirit is the Spirit OF TRUTH.

    HP,

    Do you believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of G-d?
    Do you believe that Jesus Christ died for your sins and was buried for 3 days and on the 3rd was raised from the dead by the Power of G-d through His Holy Spirit?

    Do you believe that Jesus’s sacrifice-the shedding of Jesus’ blood-is all that is needed to cover our sins?

    Do you believe that there is absolutely nothing we can do on our own to earn our way to heaven and that it is ONLY BECAUSE of Jesus’ sacrifice and shedding of His Blood that we are even able to boldly go before G-d in Jesus name and be called the children of G-d?

    John 10:The Shepherd and His Flock

    1“I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. 2The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep. 3The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. 4When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger’s voice.” 6Jesus used this figure of speech, but they did not understand what he was telling them.

    7Therefore Jesus said again, “I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep. 8All who ever came before me were thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. 9I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.a He will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

    11“I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 12The hired hand is not the shepherd who owns the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. 13The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.

    14“I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. 17The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life—only to take it up again. 18No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father.”

  120. HP wrote “I forgott one thing. You wrote “Jesus says that in his Kingdom the first shall be last” Here is the answer on what he ment.
    Matthew 21:31:
    “the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you”

    Here it is in the NIV version for a better understanding:

    The Parable of the Two Sons
    Matthew 21:
    28 “What do you think? There was a man who had two sons. He went to the first and said, ‘Son, go and work today in the vineyard.’ 29 ” ‘I will not,’ he answered, but later he changed his mind and went. 30 “Then the father went to the other son and said the same thing. He answered, ‘I will, sir,’ but he did not go. 31 “Which of the two did what his father wanted?” “The first,” they answered. Jesus said to them, “I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. 32 For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.

    *Do you know what is being inferred here when Jesus says “the last will be first and vice versa”? I would like to know your understanding of this. Thanks

  121. HP
    I Know I am a protestant, and just like you have been taught that we are in error, we protestents have been taught to be wary of catholics. Let us put that aside for now.
    The following is an example for you of the point I am making, and in no way is intended to look down on catholocism. If you want to you can substitute a protestant church and protestant leader in its place.

    Let’s say, the pope comes to the conclusion that Jesus was not God (divinity). He has some scientists do a scientific study of one of the relics of the catholic church which supposedly contains the blood of Jesus. It is found to have both female and male chromosome pairs, thereby denying the virgin birth. would you, as a Christian, Go against that Pope, or would you follow that pope.
    If this person was a protestant leader, I would not hesitate to point out the error in what they are saying, because if you compromise on the trinity/divinity of Christ, you compromise on what it means to be a Christian (BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS). This is blasphemy to Jesus, and it Makes his sacrifice on the cross insufficent to save us.
    These are the things that all Christians share in common, and what makes us by definition, Christians. To compromise on them, is like compromising on God.
    I know catholics and protestents differ on how our lives are to lived after we are saved, and how the sacrements are to be carried out, and some even on what day is the sabbath. If you want to blow bubbles in the name of your faith, so long as your heart is doing it to glorify God, then so be it. But if you are saying blowing bubbles must be done in order to be saved, that is when you are ascribing a human work as meritting salvation. This is contradictory to the Bible.

    Now the protestent churches do this as well, by saying that you are in the wrong if you do not belong to such and such a denomination or believe what this preacher preaches. It is not the authorities of this world we as Christians are to follow, but it is the authority of God that we Christians are to submit to. It is the Gospel that must not be added to or subtracted from that I am warning you about. As I would warn any protestent. I have been in many protestent churches where all you hear is a list of do’s and don’ts. The Gospel is not preached, theology is ignored, and if the trinity is mentioned it is not explained why you must believe this.

    If someone claiming to be Christ, stands in the temple in jerusalem and claims to be Christ, and the pope tells you he is Christ, yet he does not claim he is divine, would you follow him and your popes orders. Or would you see that this is the antichrist that Jesus, Paul, and John talked about in his letters.
    (seeing as you do not have revalation in your Bible) I would say the same thing if Billy Graham was in place of the pope, saying that you must believe this sort of heracy. It does not matter how many signs and wonders are done to prove he is Christ.
    I know we differ on the role of baptism, the Eucharist, and other aspects of living a Christian life, and these are worth arguing about. We are called to work out our faith with fear and trembling.
    I growing up as a baptist, can argue for immersion with the best of them. But none the less, The act of being baptised does not make us worthy of salvation, It is Gods grace that allows salvation.
    God bless

    • Hey Dru,

      This was very well said. And I agree.

    • Dru,
      You do make a valid point, however, the blood of Christ has already been tested and been shown to have only one human donor (female), but beyond that, it is not likely that anything like your scenario will ever take place, therefore every catholic may continue to hold to their current beliefs until such a scenario unfolds. Therefore as such it does not really present a convincing argument that the Catholic church or any other might become apostate. The truth is, they are already apostate and do not realize it.
      But I see an alternative danger in your concept and it is far more dangerous.
      I expect that someday soon, the tribulation will begin, or at least seem to, to most people. However the expected New World Order and the appearance of a world dictator/antichrist and the computer chipping of the entire planet will be nowhere in sight. At that time folks like myself will be putting forth alternate interpretations for the mark of the beast yet most of the world’s faithful Christians will say as you did above, “I can not believe in anyone who does not speak the true word of God” based on popular interpretation of scripture.
      The irony here is that Martin Luther actually got the identity of the antichrist/false prophet correct, but had no clue as to the mark of the beast. Unfortunately, he had it himself without knowing it.
      Or maybe he just didn’t have enough insight to predict the RFID chip, right?
      🙂

    • The scientific study was mainly to tell if a relic is authentic or not, if not … it should be discarded and placed somewhere else.

      Not much relics can be found today, cause some medieval simoniac monks sold them, … so the clergy decided to place them inside every altar, from then on … no church have missing altars. lolz

      One relic however, needs to be discovered … the veil of Saint Veronica … that would be exciting … (I believe … even if one finds it, the face of Jesus will not be seen on it. -only those who are worthy to see)

      The history show only monarchial tyranny, no “papal tyranny” … (and if you want to put the galileo issue and the spanish inquisition .. that will drag us loooong)

      The pope never claims to be Christ … he is “servant of servants” – and I hope you are not thinking about aprons :- )

      True Catholics will not leave the Church, only those who were of “higher faith to themselves” leave and preached nasty things or sometimes they preach the RCC doctrines without even knowing.

      [“You do not want to leave too, do you?” Jesus asked the Twelve.]

  122. Yea, Martin Luther did not make a pagan church that follows human tradition, stated one needed works to go to heaven, murdered in the name of Christ, and enjoyed having children out of wedlock. The Universal Church didn’t enjoy the thought of losing it’s power and privilege over the uneducated.

    Martin Luther went back to what Christ taught. Like praying to G-d the Father in Christ name, loving one’s neighbor, works do not get you to heaven only the grace of G-d least anyone boast, and not praying to dead people.

    Good luck praying to the Queen of Heaven, and believing works get you into Heaven HP.

    • Martin Luther was not murdered … but died of illness … are you speaking of Martin Luther King instead? … Martin Luther (the german RCC priest who founded the lutheran church) holds sola fide not sola gracia.

      Martin Luther King (MLK) on the other hand, did not form a new christian sect but is a member of of the Baptist Christians founded by John Smyth “the anglican”. MLK, founded the SCLC which is a Human Rights Movement.

  123. HP,
    So if I understand you, the reason you are on this particular blog is to tell us not to bother trying to figure out who the MYSTERY BABYLON whore is – the woman who rides the beast in Revelation 18, simply because the Catholic church banned the book and therefore it is not valid?
    I find it interesting that the only book in the NEW TESTAMENT that was dictated by God Himself doesn’t make it into the catholic bible. Got to be a good reason, right?
    Well it was obvious to Martin Luther and all the other reformers and to all modern Protestants that it was due to the fact that it pointed to the Catholic church as the apostate end-time church. The Catholic church spent 22 years trying to come up with credible alternate interpretations to Revelation and finally simply had to ignore it – just as it ignored the 2nd commandment when the romans refused to allow the original church to destroy their precious statues of their former gods. The Catholics’ ability to believe that their pope can simply declare away God’s laws and that he is as infallible as Jesus Himself is the problem we all have with the system. This was actually predicted in both Daniel and Revelation. I grew up a catholic and never read the Book of Revelation until much later in life. Coupled with a history book, I soon discovered the truth. Then I calculated the odds that all the prophecies about the Roman church might just be a big coincidence and I stopped when they topped 40 billion to one.
    But don’t be dismayed, you are partially correct about many of the protestant churches, for the whore has many harlot daughters and they will all go down together when Christ returns to marry the true church.
    As for the predictions of St Malachy, I have heard a lot of catholic explanations for the “final pope.” Last I heard the Vatican claims that since the last pope had no number or description other than the generic papal title “Peter of Rome” that there was probably a large gap, perhaps hundreds of years, between the now present pope, and the final pope who would reign during the tribulation. The explanation that the last one was added later is a new one on me and I don’t believe it for a minute. First of all, there is no paper trail on your claim and secondly, it stands to reason that if he listed the next 111 popes, why would he simply stop without explanation. If you are right, wouldn’t he have claimed that the 112th pope would be the glorious return of the Savior Himself to claim His rightful place in the restored Holy Roman Empire? Otherwise its a joke without a punch line.
    Too bad the Vatican made Malachy a saint before discovering his writings. Then they could have simply disavowed him as some kind of a nut job. I guess God had His own plan.
    But this is an open forum. Everyone has an opinion. Let us know what your actual thoughts are on end time prophecies. What do you think will happen in the future. Anything? Or will the pope just continue reigning as the substitute for Christ forever. I’ve heard various catholic interpretations, so please fill us in on yours. Perhaps you can turn a few heads or hearts here.
    Good luck.

  124. Hi HP,

    Your doing well with your English 🙂

    I have always understood “the last will be first” as explained by my mother is this:

    For example, as in America, there are social classes. The Rich believe they have everything but may miss the knowledge and relationship with Jesus as their Messiah.

    The poor don’t have much at all but understand well what Jesus did for them and accept Him as their L-rd and Saviour.

    So in this case, the Rich, being first on earth, will indeed be last, but the Poor being last on earth will be first in the Kingdom of G-d.

    Jesus used this as an example when he said that the tax collectors and prostitutes understood and received the gospel. They were “the least of these” according to the social class at the time.

    Also, consider a child or adult who has a disability. They are considered “the least of these” according to American/global social standards. But according to our Heavenly Father, they have already inherited the Kingdom of G-d! They are indeed and will be FIRST.

    They are “child like” and Jesus says “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. ” Matthew 18:3

    This explains also why Jesus tells us to be “born again”. To be born again means we become like children even tho we may be 80 years old by earth standards.

    Compared to G-d, we are just babies in our knowledge and understanding of G-d and Heavenly things. As “children” we accept G-d’s words with complete TRUST! Just as I did when my mother would explain to me what G-d said. 🙂

    Now, G-d does help us to mature spiritually after we are able to understand and accept the basics; understanding that Jesus Christ is His son and that we have to believe in Him in order to have eternal life.

    How does G-d help us mature? He sends us His Holy Spirit to be our teacher! The Holy Spirit is G-d’s Spirit; the Spirit of Truth. And He will bring to our remembrance all that G-d has said and taught and gives us the understanding of His Words-the HS teaches.

    Most importantly, the Holy Spirit is the one who causes us to be “born again”. Without the Holy Spirit bearing witness to the true identity of the Messiah/Jesus Christ we would not be able to be “born again”/become as children…..the children of G-d! 😉

    So, simply put, the water and blood of Jesus Christ that was poured out combined with the Holy Spirit is what washes us clean; submerges us in the Truth and causes our Spirits to be “born again”….on a spiritual level.

    We receive a new spirit when the Holy Spirit comes to us. And then the Holy Spirit testifies on our behalf that we are indeed “born again” and are very much the children of G-d! Acts 1:8; Acts 19:2; Romans 8:16; Hebrews 10:15

    Hence, “”I tell you the truth, unless you change and become LIKE LITTLE CHILDREN, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. ” Matthew 18:3

    http://bible.cc/matthew/18-3.htm

    Hope this makes sense.

    And as far as standing in “cue”/line…….I honestly don’t know. 🙂

  125. And regarding “If everybody knew that Jesus should take over after the 111 Pope everybody should be prepared. Jesus return should be a suprise”

    I promise you HP, that Jesus will not be returning to Rome or the Vatican. Jesus is returning to Jerusalem and by way of the eastern gate. Jesus LOVES Israel and Jerusalem and is returning to them….not America, not England, not Australia and NOT ROME.

    ***but know this, that before Jesus does this, the Anti Christ will sit in the temple in Jerusalem first and will try to convince people that he is the messiah-HE IS NOT. This is called “the abomination that causes desolation”. Matthew 24:15

    (So please don’t let this confuse you. The temple will have to be cleansed/purged of the evil that has taken it over before Jesus will be sitting in it….Marianne can explain this better then me. Just didn’t want you or anyone else to think that the Anti-Christ was Jesus just because he sits down in the temple in Jerusalem.)

    Zechariah 14:4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south

    Zechariah 14:8 On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half to the eastern sea and half to the western sea, in summer and in winter.

    Micah 4:2 Many nations will come and say, “Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob. He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths.” The law will go out from Zion, the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

    Revelation 21:2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

    Revelation 21:10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.

    • lol … jesus will not return to vatican … the only indication of Jesus’s return is the manner of HIS return not the place of HIS return.

      The only one who can recognize Jesus on HIS return is HIS bride … and you have “lots” of ’em to choose from in america alone. Find the one True Church … then you will be assured that what she recognizes is the true JESUS CHRIST in that day and not the false one.

      If it’s not the RCC to you, then hurry up!!! you need to do it fast, they are increasing in varities everyday. :- )

    • The New Jerusalem is the Bride, the question here is where is the place where the Groom will descend. Anybody? Read your bible and post please.

      ::: Vene Sancte Spiritus :::

  126. Hp
    Revalation is a bit of a confusing book to say the least. I felt overwhelmed everytime I read it and it didn’t seem to make sense to me, until I began to read it as a disaster novel. It jumps back in time in various places to restart the story from a different “characters” point of view. Each different “character’s” story culminating in the day of the Lord. Chapter 12 of revalation goes to the end of the fifth seal, and the rapture of Christians, it is only after that, that The beast or the Antichrist is revealed. (revalation 13). If you read the Revalation 11:19, this is the description of the day of the Lord throughout the Old testament (For example Ezekiel 38:22,23, Isaiah 29:5-6)

    In order for Jesus to attain his messianic authority, all the authorities of man, This includes political and religious ones, must Give their authority to Jesus or be destroyed. Your church being where they are, along with possibly the coptics in Egypt, will have a unique role in those End times (I do not know why I say this?). As such, I will pray that you will have the discernment to know who is the antichrist and who is the true Christ.
    God bless

  127. Hi HP,
    I’m afraid you will never be able to completely understand the Book of Revelation as long as you are catholic. I began reading it back when I was also a catholic and I couldn’t figure it out either. I had to go to sources outside the catholic church and even outside the mainstream protestant churches before I was able to put everything together. It was the reason I left the Catholic church in fact. It took several years of intense study and a lot of double-checking before I was convinced, but as Lyndsey mentioned above, I had the curiosity of a child and had a humble heart so that I would not simply deny anything that conflicted with what I had been taught before. Devout Catholics (and Protestants) will never be able to do this unless they can open their minds and consider the possibility that everything they thought they knew about prophecy is wrong. I pray for all the people in that situation, especially my Italian catholic family.
    Anyway, I’m curios about your statement that the birth of Jesus was His second coming and the next will be the third coming. So what was the first coming?
    I also checked Wikipedia on the prophecy of St. Malachy. Here is a short excerpt about the final phrase:

    “There is, also, a claim that the original list written by St. Malachy, does not contain a reference to Petrus Romanus and that the last lines were added to the printed text in Wyon’s Lignum Vitæ. This, however, cannot be proved, as the original manuscript (if any) probably no longer exists.”

    So you can believe it or not, it’s up to you. I discovered that recent editions of the catholic encyclopedia now claim the entire thing to be a 16th century forgery. Some say it was written by Nostradamus and credited to Malachy to avoid persecution by the Catholic church. Seems the church was pretty good at persecution. So is the beast of revelation.
    Maybe someday you will be able to make that connection and the Book of Revelation won’t be such a mystery any more.
    Bless…

    • 7 seals, 7 trumpets and 2 woes later I was worn out by Chapter 11! And we hadn’t even got to the 3rd woe or even the bowls for that matter!

      And THEN we ended up back in the tribulation before Chapter 12!

      I hear that we Win at the end!…whew! LOL

  128. And don’t forget the 7 bowls and the 7 last plagues. Kinda wish the rapture theory was correct. I was bummed out when I figured out it wasn’t. But wishful thinking has no place in interpreting God’s word. It’s a lot of work, but that’s why we’re all here.
    🙂

    • Hello again James
      The time of the persecution of the saints will be cut short, that being the fifth seal. Jesus is my savior, and he will be our savior then too. Your ignoring what paul said in his thesolonian letters, you should read them again.
      With all due respect, Understanding revalation is not some exclusive club to which you alone belong. The way I see it, it is a warning to all of humanity of God’s judgement of man. If we Christians are redeemed by the blood of the lamb, the one sacrifice which is sufficient to erase all our sin, then why would we have to be judged in this final judgement of the wicked.?
      If you want to be around for the trumpets and the vials, Just keep on denying that Christ’s sacrifice was insufficient to save us! We Christians will be rewarded for the works of the Spirit not the works of the flesh.

    • Then who is “meeting the L-rd in the air” james? What exactly is this describing?

      1 Thessolonians 4:17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever

      • You are referring to the second coming of Christ, when the dead in Christ shall rise first then the living shall be changed (all becoming incorruptible) to meet Him in the air. It was customary in bible times for a city to go out and greet their King whenever he returned to or entered a city. God’s people will do the same when the King of King returns. But nowhere does it say that Jesus will be taking all the resurrected dead and changed living people away to heaven for some unspecified period of time. This return will occur on the feast of trumpets and we will be protected for ten days while Christ and His angels fight the battle of Armageddon, after which He takes His throne in Jerusalem on the day of atonement.
        An early rapture is a myth, made up only recently, never taught by the apostles or the early church. Ministers that teach it are doing a great disservice to their congregations, perhaps honestly, without realizing it.
        This reminds me of the “Great Disappointment” of 1844 where thousands of believers sold off their belongings and prepared for the second coming. The words of the lord were sweet in their mouths but became bitter in their bellies when nothing happened. (see Revelation 10).
        The Prophecy was valid – it was the longest prophecy in the book of Daniel. It is also marked in the biblical timeline in the great pyramid, so it must have been significant in the history of the Christian church.
        Discover this and you will be much further in your understanding of the Book of Revelation.
        I believe the 1844 event was a “type” or precursor to the “missing rapture” somewhere in the near future.
        I guess we will see.
        Bless…

        • James
          Take the time to closely read 2 thes.2. Then break down verse 13 carefully. “Through sanctification by the SPIRIT and belief in Truth.” Is how God chooses us to be saved. This I believe is where our last arguement ended.
          Verse 3,4 says ” Let no one DECEIVE you in any way. For that day will not come, UNLESS THE REBELLION COMES FIRST, and THE MAN OF LAWLESSNESS IS REVEALED, the son of destruction, 4.who OPPOSES and EXALTS himself against every so called god or object of worship, so that he takes HIS SEAT in the Temple of God.”
          You are falling prey to this deception that Paul is writing about, by denying that there will be a “gathering”. Is this rebellion he is talking about what is going on in the middle east right now?
          Or is what is going on in the middle east the deception that Paul refers to? You see, James, satan is the master of deception.
          Also Mat 24:24 talks about “false Christs (plural)”. what does this mean? that there will be multiple deceptions by satan trying to deceive the elect.
          You could be right that there is no gathering till the end. But as I said before, what is the point of Judging those who are redeemed by the blood of Jesus? On the contrary, they will be taken up to be rewarded for the fruit of the spirit. I know you like to boast about the works of the flesh, and your adherence to the law. You live burdened by the law, and you would have others join you and carry that burden and not believe that Jesus is the “savior”, and as he frees us from the burden of the law, so also he will releave us of the burden of judgement. Do not get me wrong, our faith will be tested in the end times, particularly the fifth seal, but it will be nothing like the wrath of God poured out in the “great tribulation”.

          • Hi Dru,

            2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him,

            The gathering here is the resurrection, when the living and the dead are “gathered” together to meet jesus in the air, at His second coming, not a secret rapture.

            And in case you forgot it, here is the last verse:

            2Th 2:17 Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.

            Even Paul is encouraging his flock to do good works.

            Works are not mandatory, but will be important in the millennium in deciding who is first and who is last in the kingdom. But that part is up to you. No-one will be penalized for doing good works and obeying the law (which are two different things).

            Now, this chapter makes no mention of the beast or an Antichrist. Almost everyone confuses the “man of sin” with the New World Order leader of the “Left Behind” movies. He is not. Rather he is the False Prophet – a religious leader – the 112th pope of St. Malachy – Peter the Roman who will lead the apostate church during the tribulation.

            As for the judgement – it will not so much be of individuals but the church – God’s church. Revelation is all about the return of Christ and when He does, He will be marrying His true church. That church will have to be perfect. The rest will be rejected. Destroyed for their apostate practices – Babylon. If the members of those churches have been saved – born again – they will receive everlasting life but will require correction. In other words – no more Christmas in the millennium. No more praying to statues. No more Sunday worship, etc.
            Remember Revelation 3 where Jesus rebukes 6 of the 7 churches? Only the church at Philadelphia passed His test. That is a clue to Revelation 18 where all apostate churches will be rebuked/destroyed.

            Revelation is not about the Muslims. They will be dealt with in the war of Gog. This will precede the tribulation and by that time every Muslim will know that Allah is a false god and that the true God is the God of the Jews and Christians. According to Ezekiel 39, the whole world will know this and I wouldn’t be surprised if everyone on earth will become Judeo-Christian. The question will be, who will they follow. I believe the last pope will perform miracles after Gog and the whole world will follow the (Vatican) beast.
            The beast is the entire Vatican political-religious system. Pagan, apostate, BABYLON. It’s leader, the false prophet will be the final (next) pope. He already claims to be the substitute for christ – his title in latin adds up to 666. He is blasphemous and his predecessors have persecuted the saints to the tune of 100 million in the inquisition and crusades. The Holy Roman Empire lasted a time, times and half a time – 1260 prophetic years – and it thought to change laws and times – by erasing the 2nd commandment and moving the 4th from Saturday to Sunday.
            All this prophecy has come to pass yet most eyes are closed to it. They simply wait for everything to happen at some future date.

            The rebellion you speak of is a rebellion against God – and against His laws. It is Babylon. It isn’t Libya, or Egypt, or Syria or anything in the middle east. The mark of the beast will be part of this rebellion. Rebel against His laws and you will have the mark. This is confirmed three times in the Book of Revelation. Deny it if you want at your own peril.

            I do believe the unrest in the middle east has biblical implications. It is likely that they will become radicalized just as Iran was, and will form a caliphate with their leader (Caliph) headquartered in Turkey. Eventually they will join with Iran and attack Israel, thus fulfilling the war of Gog. But other than that, there is nothing in the Book of Revelation that refers to Islam.

            Later…

            • I never said anything about denying the law. It is about legalism, and sanctification of the spirit.
              The Gog war will not occur till the end of tribulation, so i guess “left behind” has nothing to do with what I’m saying.

              Answer me this question. when the wrath of God is raining down on earth, why is it that we who are redeemed by Jesus blood need to be here? In other words, is God going to put a bubble around us or something like that? Not that he could not do that, but your view makes less sense than the rapture view.

              Now I have been looking into a third view in which we will be placed in a position where we must Give up our earthly life at some point during the tribulation in order to receive our glorified bodies. This is actually more biblical than the other two, and more logical.

              • Please give me an example of God removing His people from harms way during a tribulation. Noah was IN the flood, but warned to build an ark first. Israel was warned by Jeremiah to correct their ways or else God would allow the Babylonians to destroy Jerusalem and take them all captive. Daniel went thru the lions den, the 3 faithful Jews went into the furnace and all were protected. There is no precedence for a rapture. The Book of Revelation is all about correcting errors in the church, not destroying other religions, countries or cities. Until you realize this you will never understand the rest of the book.
                God doesn’t care if you die in the tribulation – He knows you will be resurrected into eternal life, so as far as I’m concerned, the sooner the better. No protection is really necessary. I think God wants us all to be there to prophesy to the rest of the world. Oh wait – that is work. Well anyway, I’m preparing for it. I’m not sitting back in my easy chair waiting to be whisked away to heaven.
                And realize one thing – most of the tribulation will be man-made and natural events. WW3, nuclear winter, perhaps a supervolcano or two (Yellowstone, Long Valley), some tsunamis (Cumbra Vieja) and an asteroid strike (Apophis, 2029) are likely to happen with or without God’s help. Add to this the war of Gog, all happening before the tribulation, and the 3-1/2 year tribulation will be a piece of cake.
                Even at that I believe that God’s true church will be protected during perilous times, but that will only be a small “remnant” of the woman’s seed (rev12) perhaps less than 1% of all Christians. Those in apostate churches will have the mark of the beast and will suffer the seven last plagues as punishment. They will not be killed and will still receive eternal life, but their apostate beliefs must be corrected first, and if they refuse, they may still be subject to the lake of fire. And indeed, the wicked will be reaped and thrown to the vultures and the righteous will be “left behind” just the reverse of what the rapturists believe.
                All we really need to do is obey the commandments, not by force but because we believe in God and honor His word.
                Anything less and you are in for a great disappointment.
                Bless…

                • James
                  I am not resting on my lazyboy waiting for the rapture, on the contrary the Lord is doing immense works in my life, turning me from my sinful ways. Yes I am a sinner still, sorry to disappoint, but there are also many things that my flesh used to crave, but through God’s grace, I no longer crave them. As I grow closer to God, I grow closer to understanding the immensity of his love for us, though in his immensity, I will never fully understand him. I owe my God my whole being, and my thanks and my praise for the work he is performing in me, sanctification. He is not only teaching me to obey the commandments, but also how to love others in a Godly way, and not a worldly way.
                  You see, James we can force ourselves to obey his commandments, but that is done for all the wrong reasons. If we have no Love, It “counts as nothing”. Was this not the whole point of I Corinthians 13? Love is the thing which separates Christians living by faith from those who are apostate. There are plenty of “good” people in the world, but if they do not know the love of God, and understand its power, then they will be tested and not pass the baptism of fire.
                  I say this to you James not because I want to battle with you, but because you need to hear it. Those who are caught in their own understanding, or in the understanding that some “prophet” taught them will be dissappointed when the end comes. Especially if that is a false prophet. Your security in your knowledge is ill placed, as it is in this world, and not the divine. what I mean by this, is that being led by the Holyspirit defies logic. It is about submitting to God, letting him control your life, Letting Him do his sanctifying work in you.

                  If you read the bible, you will see that what I am saying is from the Word of God. I say this, because I was once like you, sure that I was on the right track, obeying his commandments (largely), But it was not until I was knocked down off the pedestal that I was on, that I saw God’s love, and realized that my belief in my works created that pedestal.

                  Is not the whole story of the bible a story of man trying to be his own God. About us saying to God that “we do not need you to control us, we are doing just fine.” Think of Adam, think of the Israelites, Think especially of Abraham, he received a blessing from God for doing God’s will, his Father failed to receive it and chose instead to “settle Down”. Did Abraham have the law of Moses yet, No, Yet he lived in communion with God by living by Faith.

                  Whether there is or is not a rapture is a moot point to me. What my concern is is that you choose to enslave yourself with ritualism and legalism. Submitting to God on the other hand is the most liberating thing in the world. I know submission and liberation going together is illogical, but that is the beauty of Gods love

        • Hi James,

          How do you explane Paul’s statement we will not all die, but be taken to be with the Lord? The dead will rise first.

          Thanks,

  129. HP
    We take revalation as part of the Word of God. Any interpretation of it should include all parts of it, and should be consistent with other prophecies in the bible. I believe that this is 100% the case with revalation.
    With that in mind, I believe that chapter 12 of revalation is talking about the birth of Christ. It is one of the points in revalation that jumps back to a previous time.

    • HI Dru,

      Revelation 12 is a “signal” to when revelation events take place…have you seen the “star of bethlehem” by Rick Larson?

      This will explain what I am talking about. Rick Larson was able to pinpoint the date of Jesus’ birth by tracking the star of bethlehem. It was incredible what he found!!

      And NO, this is not astrology. G-d made it clear from the beginning that He would “signal” us from the heavens.

      Genesis 1:14 ¶ And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:…

      The Jewish Feasts days are scheduled according to these signs with Passover and Feast of Trumpets both being NEW MOON Feasts.

      Jesus’ birth was “signaled” by a STAR that was seen by the Wise Men who were already looking to the stars and noticed the MOVEMENT of the STAR (what kind of star moves?)

      Watch the video with Rick Larson and then you will see Rev 12 with a new understanding 🙂 🙂 🙂

      • Lindsey
        I saw this video when I first started to study revalation in a different way, looking for the key that tells you when it jumps back. I wonder if it would tell us when “WAr arose in Heaven of verse 7, as this would tell us when satan came or comes? to earth. I had a guess from history of 637ad. I will let you figure out where that guess comes from! a Puzzle for you.

        • I wrote Rick Larson and he wrote back telling me that he would be “looking” and would let me know if he found anything 🙂

  130. Rev. 11:3, there will be two witnesses. Why do you state the Bible is not correct?

  131. Hey HP,

    Out of curiousity, does your belief make you happy? Does it “feel” right to you? or does it seem that something is missing?

  132. http://www.youtube.com/FindingTheChurch#p/search/0/Ls5xWuBX1lA

    • Lyndsey
      I wish more catholics would watch this!

      • Hey Dru,

        Ya know, the more I say to myself “that I don’t know how I got into this” the more I realize that G-d did so if only to open my eyes as to who and what the catholic church is all about. The more I read about the catholic church It is brought to my rememberance of “the woman who rides the beast”.

        It is simply hard to ignore these clues at this point. I mean, come on now, who is it that wears purple and scarlet and holds a golden cup in their hand!! DING DING!

        THEN I came across an article that talks about the pope wanting to move the vatican to jerusalem!! HELLO! Is this the abomination that causes desolation?

        When I read the verses talking about the lawless one and what he does, it is beginning to sound more catholic each and every time!

        This never occurred to me until learning the catholic religion and comparing it to scripture.

        AND THEN It was brought to my attention that the vatican created Islam! So IF this is true then this starts to put a puzzle together….the purpose of them creating Islam was to conquer Jerusalem FOR THE POPE.

        There are pics of the pope kissing the koran.
        The name “catholic” is supposed to mean “universal” as in ONE WORLD RELIGION my friend!

        The further I research, the darker it gets!

        And then here is this verse….read it and think of the catholics:

        2 Thessolonians 2: The Man of Lawlessness

        1Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, 2not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. 3Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for [that day will not come] until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessnessa is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

        5Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things? 6And now you know what is holding him back, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way. 8And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. 9The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

        • <>
          New International Version

          ——————————————————————————–

          The Woman on the Beast

          1One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits on many waters. 2With her the kings of the earth committed adultery and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries.”

          3Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a desert. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. 4The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. 5This title was written on her forehead:

          mystery

          babylon the great

          the mother of prostitutes

          and of the abominations of the earth.

          6I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus.

          When I saw her, I was greatly astonished. 7Then the angel said to me: “Why are you astonished? I will explain to you the mystery of the woman and of the beast she rides, which has the seven heads and ten horns. 8The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come.

          9“This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. 10They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for a little while. 11The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.

          12“The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast. 13They have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast. 14They will make war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will overcome them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”

          15Then the angel said to me, “The waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages. 16The beast and the ten horns you saw will hate the prostitute. They will bring her to ruin and leave her naked; they will eat her flesh and burn her with fire. 17For God has put it into their hearts to accomplish his purpose by agreeing to give the beast their power to rule, until God’s words are fulfilled. 18The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”

          ——————————————————————————–

          great city = the vatican ?

          • And then we have this:

            The Beast out of the Earth
            11 Then I saw another beast, coming out of the earth. He had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon. 12 He exercised all the authority of the first beast on his behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed. 13 And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men. 14 Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he deceived the inhabitants of the earth. HE ORDERED THEM TO SET UP AN IMAGE IN HONOR OF THE BEAST who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. 15 He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16 He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17 so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.

            18 This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is man’s number. His number is 666.

            *I am thinking of the catholics exhuming the previous pope who of course is dead!! The pope is telling his followers to “pray to”/WORSHIP the dead pope and ask for a miracle!!!!

            The Vatican has raised very large pictures of the dead pope all over the vatican and rome! creepy and eerily familiar with the above verse.

            I think that what we are seeing this weekend is just a preview of what the above verse is talking about. My opinion of course based upon observation.

            • ThE second beast is still a puzzle to me?
              The interpretations I’ve heard of this range from the U.S. to Islam. Being referred to as a beast, it must be a kingdom? Two horns being church and state separation in U.S. or Sunni, Shia split in Islam. It could also be a reference to the “Great Schism” in the catholic/ orthodox churches. I have not heard an AHA! explanation yet?
              I would appreciate your thoughts on it.

              I see how you see the beatification of the pope as possibly being it, and perhaps this will be the answer, but it ignores the fact that beasts are always kingdoms in the bible.

              • Do you not see the vatican as a kingdom?

                • Yes I see the vatican as a kingdom in a way, but I also see It more as the woman riding the beast, who the antichrist kills and despises. The false prophet seems more like Islam than anything else.
                  Also, I am again seeing the false tribulation in what I have read in between comments.

                  Inother words:
                  AntiChrist/beast= Leader of the revised Roman empire
                  Woman riding beast= catholic church
                  Dragon= Satan
                  False prophet= 12th Imam (remember he comes out of the earth, or a well)

                  This would mean that when Daniel 9:26-27 talks of covenent with many, he is referring to false prophet, or prince,Not king, or ac.

                  Now put into this the fact that church gets raptured, giving ac impetus to kill the Woman. And the Muslim interpretation of endtimes, and you will start to see a false tribulation.?

                • lyndsey

                  The beast is the kingdom, not the woman who rides it.

                  She is just along for the ride.

                  • So if the woman = vatican/catholic church then what “beast”/kingdom does she ride?

                    Ye haw! LOL

  133. Rome Prepares for Beatification of Pope John Paul II
    Apr 30, 2011
    – 2:16 –
    Sainthood is not an easy process

    *In a nutshell: Dead for 6 years; dug up; put on display along with a vial of blood. Followers are asked to pray to dead corpse and blood to ask for a miracle.

    http://video.foxnews.com/v/4670761/rome-prepares-for-beatification-of-pope-john-paul-ii/?playlist_id=86857

    • Lindsey
      Rev. 16:13 refers to the second beast as the false prophet, as does 19:20, 20:10 With 20:10 referring to post millenium.
      My McCarthur Bible says that the false prophet is the religous leader, while the antichrist is the military leader, so it could be a reference to the pope? In this view it is the woman riding the beast, but the other verses do not point to the antichrist killing the woman? Perhaps this is the Mahdi of the Muslims?

      These are the reasons why I have not made up my mind on who the second beast is.

  134. http://www.metacafe.com/watch/2091161/did_the_vatican_create_islam_pt_1_3/

  135. Part 2 Did the vatican create islam

    • You know, I’ve looked into this theory and after much consideration I believe it is no more than another DaVinci Code type of conspiracy theory. It is the brainchild of an overactive imagination of someone looking for a new alternative twist on world history.
      No pope in his right mind would set out to create a competing, blasphemous religion, just to take over a religious site. It would have been simpler to just invade the area while it was just a bunch of disjointed tribes rather than bind them together into a formidable fighting force which eventually took over half of Europe.
      Not only does it defy logic, but like the DaVinci code it has little history to back it up, other than unsubstantiated claims and other stuff that is simple made up.
      While the pope may placate the Muslims with kind words and gestures, in his heart he believes that all Muslims are doomed to hell, just as all other religions and even non-catholic Christians. They are not working together and radical Islam still wants to kill every Christian that refuses to convert to Islam.
      Mohammed created the Koran from what the local Jews told him about the Old Testament, and from what his wife Fatima, who was Christian, told him about the New Testament. Of course, he made some mistakes since he couldn’t read or write and had to depend on his failing memory for details, plus he made some changes himself, especially after the local Jews got wind of what he was doing and began feeding him made-up nonsense as a joke. He then proceeded to wipe out an entice city full of Jews and the all of a sudden, he got messages from god that it was now their duty to kill all the Jews on the planet. I guess Allah can’t take a joke, eh?
      So I think you can toss this one in the trash bin with all the crazy alien abduction stories, and the idiots that think the Mayan calendar correctly signals the end of the world.
      Now that wouldn’t leave Christ much to come back to eh?
      🙂

      • There is no such thing as radical Islam. There is only Islam. That is following Mohammad, and praying to the god aka Sin the moon god.

        There are radicals within Islam, but they are called Apostates. They do not follow Mohammad who raped, murdered, waged war on the Infidels and Jews, and raided caravans.

  136. Lindsey, Marianne
    Are you seeing the false tribulation yet?

    Daniel 9:26-27 talks about The prince, not the king. or false prophet versus Antichrist. We know the Dragon that gives its authority to the Ac is Satan. Ac is a political leader of the beast kingdom. Catholic church is the woman riding the beast. Therefore it is likely to be Roman empire/vatican. What is the Identity of the false prophet? Either Many as in Legion, Or Lucifer, assuming lucifer is different from Satan? What we know about the demon “Many or Legion” is that it can be in multiple places at one time. Ezekial 38:2 states Gog=the “chief prince of Meshech and Tubal” verse 4 says”and I (God) will turn you about, and put hooks in your jaws, and I will bring you out, and all your army…” Be back in a bit

    • I am just not that smart dru! LOL

      I was thrilled to figure out who the woman was! ha! and it was the purple, scarlet and golden cup that gave that away 🙂

    • dru

      I think you are mixing apples and oranges.

      if the lady is the church, and the beast is the kingdom, either the kingdom is false christianity and the prophet is the pope, with the AC being some Catholic.

      or

      the lady is Islam and the beast is the united kingdom of muslim nations, and the false prophet is some imam, with the AC being the 12th imam.

    • And not following you in regard to a “false” tribulation…..bad enough we may have to go through the real one….

  137. Lindsey, marianne
    You put that video up of the catholic church creating the religion of Islam. It seems to me there are a whole lotta things going on on the dark side. (Yes I am feeling a little conspiratorial) When daniel writes about the covenent with many, he is referring to the “Prince”, at other times in his prophecy, he refers to the ac figure as King. Now I always thought there was no distintion, that they were interchangable (prince of Darkness etc). Ezekial also talks of the “prince” running the show at the Magog war. Now we established that the Catholic church is the Woman, therefore the woman and the beast are two different entities. Now the question is is the woman, the false prophet? No, Why? Revalation 19:20 puts the false prophet battling at the final battle against the messiah, Whereas Rev17:16 says the beast will devour the prostitute. Therefore, the false prophet does not equal the catholic church.
    Now if the false prophet is the leader of Meshech and Tubal, which is in modern day Turkey, would that not mean he was a Muslim?
    Now, here is where the speculation comes into play. The false Prophet will perform signs and wonders: Correct? This means to me that it will appear as the Messiah at his second coming. Now put that into the Muslim end times events, which you have on another post here. At the end of these Muslim prophecies, “Jesus” or someone who appears as Jesus will return (False prophet?) With this in mind, Rev 13:12-18 makes alot more sense. In order to make the deception complete, There must be what appears to be a tribulation, before the actual tribulation. That is what I feel this 2012 buzz is all about.
    Now Jesus says in Mat. 24:6 “…see that you are not alarmed…[for] the end is not Yet.” So he is predicting events which will take place before the tribulation begins, at verse 9 with the fifth seal. (So in a sense this false trib will not affect true believers as much as nonbelievers) Now, alot of people will be deceived into taking the mark of the beast by the false prophet (who appears as the Messiah to many). The women riding the beast does not come into prominence until after the rapture, and this is only to hand the Power of the catholic world over to the beast(10 kings ruling for an hour by design). But she will be the one in the background planning the events early on, as the video of the catholic church creating Islam points to. Catholocism will not be the “world religion”, but will lend credence to it. the OWR will be a mix of all world religions, which will persuasively convert many to its beliefs, the false prophet in the Muslim world, the Pope in the western world. The pope however will not be the Ac, because he has no power militarily. Who the Ac is, I do not think we will know until the time comes to reveal him, and if the rapture occurs, we will not be around to see it.

    I know I am putting together alot of things here, and I am not sure I grasp all of it exactly. It is just that every time I see a video like the one above, I start seeing this false trib, mixing with muslim prophecies. This is how my brain “storms” so to speak. Am I wrong, possibly, But isn’t it better to get this out there for people to ponder rather than repressing it? Yes. So in a sense, I’m just thinking out loud,(or on a keyboard).

    • Ponder, think and type…..keeps us out of trouble until Jesus returns and declares CHECK MATE! 🙂

  138. Hi Guys,
    The answers you seek are in this article which I wrote a year ago. Of course nobody believed me back then but the discussions since then have cleared some minds on the matter.
    To reiterate a little:
    The woman is the Catholic church (a woman in prophecy is always a church – good or bad).
    The beasts are kingdoms and are easy to determine with a simple history book. Daniel had 4 – Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome (That is the thread of this article).
    John saw two beasts and two more that followed – he just called them the 7th and the 8th.
    Each kingdom replaces the previous one. There is no jumping around the planet – it is a simple contiguous story.
    After Daniel’s Rome, it broke up into 10 separate regions with 10 kings. But the Vatican destroyed 3 of these kingdoms (plucked up by the roots – sound familiar?). That left only 7 kings. (10 heads with 7 crowns). The Vatican (the “little horn” gained power over the remaining 7 nations (subdued them). This was the start of the Holy Roman Empire which lasted till 1898 – a total of 1260 years (a time, times and dividing of times – exactly as predicted). Then after Napoleon ended the Holy Roman Empire, all that was left of this first beast was the Vatican (the 2nd beast). It was restored to nation status in 1929, recovering from the deadly wound of Napoleon.
    Now, the Catholic church (woman) rides atop the Vatican (2nd beast). Its “image” who speaks for it is the pope. His blasphemous title “Substitute for Jesus Christ” in latin – VICARIVS FILLII DEI – adds up to 666 in Roman numerals. He will be the false prophet. (Not this pope but the next – check the prophecy of St. Malachy to see that Benedict is the last pope before the last pope – not named or described in the prophecy.
    The 7th king of Revelation is the European Union – the revived Roman Empire.
    So far we are looking at history – fulfilled prophecy.
    So what about the 8th king who is of the 7th? That is coming soon – a restored Holy Roman Empire where the European Union and Vatican join forces once again, probably to counter the growing Muslim threat, perhaps after the war of Gog.
    That’s it in a nutshell. A relatively simple accounting of the history of God’s people from the Jews in ancient Babylon to the majority of modern Christians on earth today. Note that Revelation 12 is a sidebar story of how the true church changed from the Jews to the Christians with the birth and resurrection of Christ. Even Revelation 12 mentions the woman (true church this time) is persecuted by the dragon for 42 months – 1260 prophetic years. The true beast here was the Holy Roman Empire – all the damage was done (persecutions, false doctrines) under its reign. An soon it will be back. Bad news for the true church. And don’t forget about the harlot daughters – protestant churches with pieces of Babylon (pagan practices) still in them. All Babylon will be destroyed before Christ returns to marry His bride. He’s not out to destroy Islam – they don’t know better). Nor Buddhism or any other religion. They are not at fault for not knowing the truth. But God’s people are supposed to know better, yet many have strayed from the truth. They will receive the last plagues but will have a shot at redemption if they repent. But their church(es) will be destroyed and a restored Philadelphia church (see Revelation 3) will be created looking a lot like the church of the apostles. This is the whole point of the Book of Revelation. The fulfilled prophecy shows us that it was divinely inspired. What remains is for us end-time Christians to get back to the true church and jettison all Babylon. Its a very simple story and a very simple message when you finally understand it.
    Hope some lights have come on for many of you reading this. Do more research, have an open mind and try not to get side-tracked with crazy tangents taking you off the main topic – God is returning and we need to be ready for Him.
    Its as simple as that.
    Bless…

    • James
      Thank you for your theories. I am just exploring some other compelling theories. I know you came out of the catholic church and see much evil in them, and your interpretations are compelling as well. What the discussion at hand here involves is the second beast. Some have claimed this is the Muslim mahdi. They are very strong arguements for this. I just do not see the catholic church being all the characters in the end times events. especially if the beast will devour the woman riding it.

      • Here is a thought….IF it is true that the Vatican created Islam for the purpose of winning Jerusalem and since they have alread turned on the church once, perhaps Islam is the beast that devours its creator/the woman/church/vatican. Just thinking out loud….still can’t get over the thought of the catholic church creating Islam.

        Any thoughts on that James? I know you say the “muslims don’t know better” but most of the nations that Jesus destroys when He returns are muslim nations……

        • Their connection is Fatima. Fatima is allegedly Mohammed’s daughter and the muslims also honor mary and feel that Fatima is blessed for having received “revelation” from mary….and the drama continues….OY!

        • Lyndsey
          If that video is true, the plan has been in the works for a long time,No? I know many have a problem with catholocism, and rightfully so, but there are also Christians among the catholic church, and its creeds that are very Christian. They would only be in the way of the ac. Especially if the ac declares himself the messiah, many catholics I know would not go for this, for their faith is not looking for a man, but the return of the Messiah. So if the pope claims to be the messiah, they will lose many followers. They also have the uncorrupted Word of God at their disposal (though they do not read it much), whereas Islam has the altered version. Just some thoughts

          • “So if the pope claims to be the messiah, they will lose many followers. They also have the uncorrupted Word of God at their disposal (though they do not read it much),”

            I wish I could agree with you on that. From the reaction of Rosa and those at the beatification, I would say that there is serious brainwashing, not kidding, that would indeed lead most to believe whatever the pope says….even if he claims that he is the messiah or even if he points to someone else as being the messiah. They are going to beleive their pope, period. It is truly a cult with a cult leader. Not much different and perhaps stronger then the cults we have seen in other places-mass suicides-etc…

            I mean think about what just happened over the weekend. They have “normalized” digging up a dead body after 6 years or maybe 5, does it matter how long, they dug up a dead body for goodness sakes and put him on display. They told their “followers” to pray TO the dead body and ask for a miracle. THEN they threw in a vial of HIS BLOOD for the same thing!!

            If we can get as much of the Word of G-d out there and into their brains and heart then it is my hope that the “sword of the Spirit” will cut through this “brainwashing” so that at least some will be saved-hoping for all but “narrow is the gate”

        • Vatican did not create Islam. Muslims claim that Abraham was Muslim and they can prove it to the extent that Abraham’s hometown was a center of worship of moon god (with different names like Sin, Nanna, Allah, Illah etc.) The link shows the widespread use of moon crescent and star. Moon god Allah was worshipped already during Sumerian times.
          http://www.bible.ca/islam/islam-photos-moon-worship-archealolgy.htm
          Just think how uptodate English Bible is when saying “avoid Sin”. A very accurate command to avoid Babylonian moon god

          • I suppose the catholic church, who also use babylonian pagan gods, could indeed use what was already in existence to rise up a religion for the purpose of obtaining Jerusalem.

            I first learned of this only a few days ago and thought it was a bit far fetched myself.

            If the muslims are also aknowledging Mary and Fatima, then this alligns them with the pope.

            Catholicism = Universal
            Islam = Peace

            = Universal Peace hmmmmm

          • Didn’t the pope visit the Muslim countries recently, trying to get them on board. I wonder what they talked about?

  139. Hi Dru,
    For some reason everyone goes far astray when they look for the second beast. But check this:

    Rev 13:11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

    Rev 13:12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

    The second beast looked like the lamb of God but he speaks blasphemies. This has to be a Christian organization- impersonating Christ or claiming to be His substitute (vicar). And it continues to exercise all the power of the first beast – after the Holy Roman Empire (1st beast) broke up, the Vatican continued on with all the religious power it had before. It only lost political control over the 10 heads / 7 crowns.

    If the first beast represents Christianity, and the second one causes the people of earth to worship the first beast, it can not be Islam. The two beasts are related – the second is a copy/clone/image of the first beast.

    And remember Revelation 17 says the whore church rides on a scarlet colored beast. If the whore is the Catholic church then the only kingdom it could be riding is the modern Vatican or perhaps the future revived Holy Roman Empire. (The 8th king, of the 7th).
    Here is what will happen soon: Remember that the “10 kings” represent the revived Roman empire (European Union).

    Rev 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

    The 8th beast, “was” (a kingdom), then it disappeared for a while (was not) but then it is coming back. This makes it clear that the first beast (Holy Roman Empire) would appear to die off, but it will be revived in the end times.

    Rev 17:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

    Rev 17:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

    This represents the restored Holy Roman Empire – the Vatican and European Union combined.

    Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him [are] called, and chosen, and faithful.

    This shows that the European Union will become apostate by aligning with the Catholic church.

    Rev 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

    Rev 17:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

    I believe this is what will happen during the tribulation. Perhaps the two witnesses and other people like myself will convince them that the Catholic church is Babylon and finally turn against it.

    Rev 17:17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

    This hearkens back to God hardening Pharaoh’s heart. He will allow the European Union to give their loyalty to the Vatican, but eventually, they will realize their error and come to hate the whore (Catholic church).

    And finally,

    Rev 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

    So what was the city who reigned over the “whole world” at the time of this writing? Rome is the only possible candidate. Rome was not just a city but a world ruling empire. It is not Mecca, Istanbul, Washington DC or any other city. The Roman Catholic Church often refers to itself as simply “Rome” and even the prophecy of St. Malachy says that at the second coming “Rome” will be destroyed.

    And finally, as to the identity of the Antichrist – THERE IS NO ANTICHRIST!

    There is only the beast, the false prophet/man of sin, and Satan. Nowhere in either Daniel nor Revelation is an Antichrist mentioned. The term is used by John only 4 times to refer to all the people during his own time who were “against Christ.” There is only one man involved – the False Prophet (the next & final pope). He forces the mark on all his followers. According to Daniel, the False Prophet will “think to change [God’s] laws and times.” This the Vatican has already done and it is the true mark of the beast. The Vatican will not try to install a chip in everyone’s hand or forehead. It will get it’s followers to deny God’s commandments. We all know the Vatican has removed the second commandment (no graven images) and changed the time of the fourth commandment from Saturday to Sunday. Forced Sunday worship (and a ban on using other days) was proposed by pope John Paul II in 2002, but right now it can’t be enforced. But when the Holy Roman Empire is restored, it will be enforced. But few will recognize it, so “the whole world will follow the beast.” Even the protestant churches, 11 of which have agreed in principle to re-join the Vatican in the near future, will receive the mark. And all will suffer the last plagues.
    But at some point they will realize their mistake and turn on the church. Perhaps this is how Babylon (paganism) will be destroyed – from within rather than through divine intervention. Perhaps a little of both.

    Christianity will be tested and corrected. There is no rapture, no get out of tribulation free cards. Don’t sit back and wait for God to destroy Islam. He doesn’t give a crap about false religions. He has to fix His own religion before He returns. He asks His people to “come out of her” meaning to leave the whore church, not Islam. God will punish Islamic nations who come against Israel in the war of Gog, but they are not part of the Book of Revelation. Just try to make all the verses fit Islam and you will soon see it can’t be done.

    Believe me, I’ve tried.

    Bless…

  140. The luchot ha’even, (tablets of stone) inscribed with the Ten Commandments in transliterated Hebrew.
    Keep in mind that the transliterated Hebrew would be read from right to left in respect to the Hebrew words.
    For ease of reading I have written them from left to right.

    (1) ‘anokhi Adonai ‘eloheykha
    I am Adonai your God.

    (2) lo’ yihyehlekha ‘elohim ‘acherim ‘alpanai
    Not you shall have gods other before me.

    (3) lo’ tissa ‘et-shem-‘Adonai ‘elloheykha lashshav
    Not you shall take the Name of Adonai Your God to vanity.

    (4) zakhor ‘et-yom hashabbat lekadesho
    Remember the Sabbath day for holiness.

    (5) kabbed ‘et-avikha ve’et-imekha
    Honor your father and your mother.

    (6) lo’ tirtsach
    Not you shall murder.

    (7) lo’ tin’af
    Not you shall commit adultery.

    (8) lo’ tignov
    Not you shall steal.

    (9) lo-ta’aneh vere’akha ‘ed shaqer
    Not you shall bear against your neighbor witness false.

    (10) lo’ tachmod beit reiekha
    Not you shall covet the house of your neighbor.

    • Hi James,

      The reason that I posted the above, was to show you the original Ten Commandments transliterated from the Hebrew text.

      Yes, the Catholics did make changes to it. However the Protestants did as well.
      At the bottom of the page to the below link, the author has posted the changes made in a side by side format.
      The whole page is very informative regarding this subject.

      http://www.hebrew4christians.com/Scripture/Torah/Ten_Cmds/ten_cmds.html

  141. Hey James
    I appreciate your interpretations and will take them into consideration. The thing that I am trying to do is to come up with other possibilities. If there is one thing I have learned in life, it is to expect the unexpected, especially when dealing with the Devil. For that reason alone, I am exploring the possibilities of the false prophet being the Mahdi.
    James, I have run into people like you many times, so sure of what they believe, only to see them fall. Now I am not hoping that you fall, but this is how I have chosen to study the prophecies in the Bible. Not to set my interpretations in one place, but rather to look at all the cultural, and historical events in relation to end times. As Lindsey said, to assume that there is no muslim element to prophecy, when all the countries involved are Muslim is in my opinion a foolish assumption to make. What that role is, and how big it is, is to be determined, but I cannot ignore it.
    You like many in protestent circles have a hatred for the catholic church. You especially, having come out of it. I do not condemn you for this, infact I rejoice with you for taking that step. But, I believe, It can also cloud your objectiveness when interpreting end time events. In other words, you come into studying scripture with assumptions regarding Catholocism which direct your understanding in one direction. I am not saying that your interpretation is wrong in the least, but when you sit there and are so sure of it, It begs me to ask: What happens if you are wrong?
    True wisdom comes from understanding all possibilities. Not from coming to one and sticking to it with Guns ablazin’. I have also come to learn, that to really understand something or someone, you have to “stand under” them in humility. If you try to impose your views on them, they more than likely will reject it.

    • Hi Dru,
      I encourage you to explore other interpretations, and to do so seriously, giving close scrutiny to how it fits with scripture. As I said, I have done that and in my search I have ended up abandoning many of my original assumptions once I found alternatives that fit the profile better. And I’m sure I will find a few errors as time passes – I don’t think anyone has all the correct answers.
      As for my writing style, I apologize if it sounds presumptuous, but I spent much of my life as a teacher, then a technical writer (instruction manuals) and then doing resumes etc. in my typesetting business, so I intentionally write as if I know what I’m talking about. You can’t be an effective teacher if you come across like you’re not too sure of what you’re talking about, and can’t write a manual saying “I think if you press that red thingy it will so such-and-such, but just press it and see what happens.“
      So now I’m a teacher become preacher I guess, so the same rules apply, at least in my head. Try not to take it too seriously, unless of course you agree with me.

      Oh, as for the catholic thing, while I grew up catholic, there was never a hint of prophecy within the church, so it wasn’t until I began to study on my own that I came to realize that the Catholic church was the whore of Babylon, which is when I left the church. I have nothing against Catholics per se, after all my entire Giordano family is catholic. But scripture is scripture, so I had no choice. Oh well.

      In regards to the Muslim theory, do you believe in the prophecies in the Koran? It sounds like you are expecting the Mahdi to return, just like Ahmadinejad says. I find so many Christians trying to reconcile the bible with the Koran as if both were true. As for me I believe Mohammed was a false prophet and I won’t consider that anything he said was true scripture. Of course there are similarities since he took most of the Koran from the old and new testaments, getting most of it wrong either accidentally or intentionally. I know it’s fun to look at these possibilities but I would warn against using anything in the Koran to help predict end-time events.

      Just a thought…

      • James,
        As far as believing the prophecies in the Quran Go, No I do not believe them, But that does not mean that there aren’t some wacko’s out there trying to fulfill them.

        Much like the native americans see spirits, and can pass a lie detector test to prove it, Belief, is a persuasive tool. They can fool even the most sceptical believers, if there is enough similarity to the prophecy. The ability of the leaders of Islam to exploit its followers is undeniable. If they can get enough muslims to believe that the current earthquakes signal endtimes, why not throw in a dajjal and mahdi in the mix. Add to that a redmoon, and a solar eclipse and bingo bango you have fulfillment in the eyes of many Muslims. Throw into that the people looking at all this 2012 prophecy, and you may even convert a bunch of people to Islam, especially Mormons, and Catholics.

        On the other hand, this could turn out to be the great dissappointment for the Muslims as well. which would make it a prime time to reach them with the Gospel Truth. It could even be that Islam will convert catholic, assuming the catholic church compromises on the big sticking point between the two religions, namely the trinity. But I know your arguements against this.!

        The main reason why I am exploring these possibilities with Muslim prophecies, is that the possibility of what I call a false tribulation is coming to my attention. All this stuff with Muslim prophecy, Mayan Prophecy, and mormon prophecy, are fitting into this concept as we speak. Now I know your suggested dates for the tribulation are slightly later than mine, but mine workout to 2012 being the start of this false trib. I am seeing hints of this biblically, but many clues to it in these “false Prophecies”. This false trib could culminate in the signing of the covenent of Daniel 9:26-27 with Israel ushering in a time of peace and safety for Israel. Now I know your not on board with the covenent stuff, and rapture, but I still tend to lean in that direction.

        At any rate, If this is the dasterdly plan of the villains, I do not see how exposing it would hurt the cause of the Gospel. I might even be considered Superman for exposing it!!!LOL, None the less, I feel compelled to explore this, Led by the Spirit in fact, I do not know where it will lead me exactly, but I must follow. I do appreciate your scepticism though, as it keeps me honest…God bless.

        • Hi Dru,
          Well I don’t know if a false tribulation is biblical but I get what you mean. It won’t take much to fool a big portion of humanity into thinking 2012 is something it’s not. I can’t see Christians becoming Muslims, for any reason, and I’m certain there won’t be a 12th imam performing miracles in the name of Allah, no matter how much Muslims want to believe it is possible. Actually, I don’t see any religions doing a mass migration to another. I know some people believe there will be a one-world religion as part of a New World Order, but all that is simply misinterpretation of one or two lines of prophecy. It actually happened in the Roman empire during the reign of emperor Justinian and it was how pagan Babylon got into the Christian church. But nothing like that could ever happen in today’s world.
          Anyway, I’m looking forward to 2012, hoping it will be as much fun as Y2K. The big scare that went nowhere. I will be very busy on 1/1/13 visiting hundreds of YouTube sites just to say “I told you so!” Wonder what they will come up with to justify all the effort they put into their scare tactics.
          We’re going to have a whole bunch of disappointed idiots!
          🙂

  142. Coincidence? hmmmm

  143. Just a little helpful hint…if you look at a geographical history of Rome, you would notice that Vatican Hill was not part of the city until centuries after the writing of Revelation. Therefore, by simple logic, Vatican Hill was not included in the “7 Hills.”

    And, just to help out your historical inaccuracies – Napoleon Bonaparte died in 1821. AND Pope Leo XIII died in 1903.

  144. The Book of Revelation was not written for the people of ancient Rome but for you and I, based on the world today, not 2000 years ago. The Vatican did not become a country (beast) until 1929 and by that time it was part of the “City of Seven Hills” that all modern bible readers should clearly recognize as Rome.
    As for the deaths of Napoleon and Pope Leo XIII, I don’t believe either one is a part of bible prophecy.
    If you are referring to the fatal wound of the early vatican, here is a line from Wikipedia:

    In 1796 French Republican troops under the command of Napoleon Bonaparte invaded Italy, defeated the papal troops and occupied Ancona and Loreto. Pius VI sued for peace,… General Berthier marched to Rome, entered it unopposed on 10 February 1798, and, proclaiming a Roman Republic, demanded of the Pope the renunciation of his temporal authority.

    This was the end of the Holy Roman Empire and marked the end of the worldly power of the Vatican (until 1929).
    So the facts match the prophecy – looks like God got it right.
    Napoleon died 23 years later and I have no idea what pope Leo XIII has to do with anything.
    🙂

  145. The fourth beast in Daniel is Islam, it’s becoming pretty obvious.

    The wound on the beast in Revelations, their prophets death, Islam almost died with him, but instead it grew stronger.

    The image that speaks blasphemies is the Koran, think about it.

    And I think I’ve figured out the “mark on the fore-head”, aren’t Muslims somewhat required to memorize the Koran? Great and small, slave and free.

    Remember these things will happen in a not so obvious way.

  146. Hi Jane,
    Let me throw a few challenges out there for you to test your theory against.
    In engineering we call it troubleshooting but it’s a good way to test a theory to make sure all the pieces fit together properly.
    In Daniel, he is describing world events, specifically the sequence of world empires that would follow Babylon. He refers to actual Kings (Cyrus) and battles between successive kingdoms. He even states that the beasts he saw were four kingdoms, and he first describes them as a statue of different metals.
    The first three kingdoms he mentions by name since they already existed in his time – Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece. Each one conquered the previous and controlled the Holy Land. Remember, the bible is for and about God’s people.
    Since the statue was one solid continuous symbol, we should expect the prophecy (a history lesson in advance) to be continuous as well. God has no reason to confuse us. Therefore, the fourth beast (empire) should directly follow the third, unless we are clearly told to jump forward to a completely different situation.
    Since Islam is a religion, not a kingdom or country, it is not a beast. Religions are referred to as women in prophecy, such as the woman who rides the beast in Revelation. This is a church that is also a kingdom. Your theory puts a 900 year gap in Daniel’s story. Currently there is only one church that enjoys nation status in the U.N.
    The wound you mentioned is to the 2nd beast of Revelation, not the 4th kingdom of Daniel. To fit you need to come up with two more kingdoms, plus two more after that (remember John talks about a seventh King and an eighth that is of the 7th). Good luck finding those in Islam.
    The image speaking blasphemies is a man, not a book. Books are referred to as books in prophecy. And the mark of the beast (666) is “the number of a Man” not the Koran.
    Remember, God is going to punish those with the mark with the 7 last plagues in the 7th bowl judgement. What you are implying is that all Muslims will suffer the plagues because they are anti-christ or not true believers, but then all other faiths and atheists would also have to suffer the judgement. But God has never punished other faiths for not believing in Him. He has only punished His own people from breaking His laws. Why do you think Daniel was in captivity in Babylon when he wrote the book? Jeremiah prophesied about God’s wrath if the Jews didn’t straighten up, but they failed to listen and were punished. The Book of Revelation is a replay of Daniel. Only this time God’s people are us Christians, and we are still breaking His commandments and speaking blasphemies and celebrating pagan holidays and pretending they are God’s.
    Today’s Christians must wake up and realize what is going to happen. Not to everyone else on the planet but to us! We smugly claim that Jesus is going to rapture us to heaven while God punishes everyone else on earth. You are right about one thing – it won’t be obvious to most Christians what is going to happen to them. They believe they are safe and that bad things won’t happen to “good Christians.” They have failed to learn from history, and have failed to recognize that history has proven prophecy and continue to wait for events to unfold that will never come to pass.
    Anyway, I hope you will continue to study prophecy and to put any theory to the test. And be careful not to fall into the trap of simply assuming everything that does not fit your theory has not yet happened. Many people believe that nothing at all in the Book of Revelation has happened yet because it doesn’t fit their interpretation. But time is getting short for them. So much prophecy, so little time.
    It’s a complicated subject – more complicated than any schematic I’ve ever worked on. I hope you will keep exploring the subject and I look forward to a lively discussion on the matter.
    That is why we are all here, after all.
    God bless.

    • Jane and James,

      The most intriguing verse of Daniels interpretation there is verse 43.
      The Aramaic definitions would allow for the verse to also be written as it is below;

      “It will come to pass that “they” will mix, and join together with the offspring of mankind; but they will not cling together, even as iron will not mix with clay.”

      And the Aramaic transliterated word “den” that was translated in the King James as “one” and “another” within that verse, has the connotation within its definition, (as a demonstrative pronoun) that the “they” could be referring to demons, or gods.

      James, I was wondering if you could please quote the verse where you say, “The first three kingdoms he mentions by name since they already existed in his time – Babylon, Medo-Persia and Greece. Each one conquered the previous and controlled the Holy Land.” ?

      I believe that the only reference that Daniel actually made to King Nebuchadnezzar regarding the kingdoms in the dream was in verse 37 and 38 where he told Nebuchadnezzar that he was the head of gold. Daniel did not elaborate on anything further as to what the other future kingdoms consisted of other than what he revealed within his interpretation itself. Since you are trouble-shooting and challenging Jane, the above quote of yours also does not line up with verse 29 where Daniel states,

      “As for thee, O king, thy thoughts came into thy mind upon thy bed, what should come to pass hereafter : and he that revealeth secrets maketh known to thee what shall come to pass.”

      Which then would negate your statement that implies that these kingdoms already existed at that time. For these kingdoms are clearly in the future and will be revealed at a later time.

      The Medo-Persia and Greece possibilities have been derived by man and not revealed by Daniel as you suggest above. If they had been revealed, then less confusion as to what the “silver, brass, iron and mixture of clay and iron” would exisit.

      Another possible interpretation of these metals and there association to kingdoms, has been more popular among Jewish scholars, at least as far back as Flavius Josephus, and has support from 20th century Biblical scholars such as John J. Collins as well as conservative Christian scholars such as H.H. Rowley, Gurney, Lucas, and Walton is that:
      The gold head – Babylon
      The silver breast and arms – Media
      The copper belly and thighs – Persia
      The iron legs – Greece
      The feet partly of iron and partly of mixed clay – The Seleucids and the Ptolemies.
      This second view refers to the unsuccessful marriage alliances between the Seleucids and Ptolemies.(Daniel 11:6, 11:17.) According to scholars who hold to this view, only these two successors to the Greek Kingdom were of interest to the author and his Jewish readers since these 2 dynasties had direct relation to Jewish affairs.
      They often fought over the ownership of Judea and the control of Jews in the 2nd century BC (Daniel 11:2-35).

      Though we all have theories regarding this interpretation, there is no difinitive proof available yet to conclude what the previous 4 kingdoms actually were. Neither do we fully understand what the fifth will consist of either?
      Since Daniel did not provide further specificity, it has all been left up to conjecture by man.

      So my point is, that if we decide upon anything, and it happens to be incorrect, then all the rest of our studies will be incorrect as well, because you will have no choice but to attempt to have those further studies conform to that preconcieved error. As an engineer in the past you must personally be aware of that.

      Oh, and you are well aware of my views regarding the rapture, yet you don’t believe that it is a possibility whatsoever. Would you be kind enough to provide your reasons for maintaing that position?
      Thanks.

      Be Blessed

    • Hi! James Giordano,

      I know that in bible prophecies beasts stands for kingdoms, but remember the angel said it shall be different from all other kingdoms.

      23 “Thus he said:
      ‘ The fourth beast shall be
      A fourth kingdom on earth,
      Which shall be different from all other kingdoms,
      And shall devour the whole earth,
      Trample it and break it in pieces.
      Daniel 7:23

      And the 2nd beast in Revelations is the 4th beast in Daniel.

      And the 2nd beast in Revelations is where the woman (Mystery Babylon) sits, which symbolizes a church.

      Islam is both a kingdom and a church. They have their own laws wherever they are in any part of the world. I know most of them are indeed peace loving people.

      As for the image:

      14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived. 15 He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed.
      Revelation 13:14-15

      It says there “to make an image”, meaning create, therefore, the image cannot be a “man” who needs to be born as only God can “create” man.

      who was wounded by the sword and lived – the Koran was made after their prophet died.

      the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed. – there’s a lot of verses in the Koran that tells their followers to kill the unbelievers even prophets.

      21. As to those who deny the Signs of Allah and in defiance of right, slay the prophets, and slay those who teach just dealing with mankind, announce to them a grievous penalty.
      Surah 3

      I admit that those are just theories, only time will tell if I got em right or wrong, so far, Islam seems to fit the puzzle.

    • Oh and I don’t think the end time prophecies are for Christians only, I think the end of the world pretty much concerns everyone in this planet. Remember one of the conditions for the end to come is:

      And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
      Matthew 24:14

      • Hi Jane,
        You leave me a bit confused… If the second beast of Revelation is the fourth beast of Daniel, then what is the first beast of Revelation? It must be the third beast of Daniel then, or Greece.
        But according to Rev 13:12
        And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
        So Islam causes the world to worship Zeus and the other Greek gods?
        And what was Greece‘s deadly wound?

        And then there’s:
        Rev 13:18
        Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number [is] Six hundred threescore [and] six.

        The number of the beast is the number of a man. Not a book.

        And:
        Rev 17:10
        And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, [and] the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

        Rev 17:11
        And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

        John mentions 8 kingdoms (beasts), but if his first two were the same as two of Daniel’s beasts, then there would only be six, not eight.
        And while there are many more examples, here is a simple question:
        Rev 17:9
        And here [is] the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

        Ask anyone where is the city of seven hills and they will tell you “Rome.”
        Is there a church headquartered in Rome? Of course – the Roman Catholic Church. Is the Roman Catholic Church also a nation unto itself (a kingdom)? It is the only church with such status.
        Contrary to what you stated, Islam is not a nation. It is not an empire and therefore it is not a beast. It is only a religion. Hindi is not a nation, nor is Buddhism, or even Protestantism.

        This clue is a gimme – a no-brainer, yet many people (Marianne) go to great lengths to come up with dozens of alternatives to the city of seven hills and ignore the plain fact that there is really only one church that can be remotely considered a beast and also fills the bill of rev 18 as being fabulously wealthy and adorned in purple and scarlet. That is certainly no Muslim church.

        God gave us all wisdom to understand these scriptures. But Satan is the author of confusion and he has been hard at work lately muddying the picture. You all need to clear your minds, think simple and logical and remember the Old Testament. There’s gonna be a quiz on it real soon.
        If you can remember your commandments, you will pass. If not, well, we shall see.
        May God bless us all.

        • hi James

          Of course, there is something called Chrislam now, a union of christians and muslims worshipping the same “god.” They have both the Quran and the bible in the pews now, and they have taken down the crosses in the churches so they do not offend the muslims.

          • But do you actually believe this will become a worldwide universal religion?
            Does anybody out there plan on joining?

            (I didn’t think so)

  147. I am familiar with the interpretation you describe. It is the interpretation in my catholic bible. I believe the early church decided to deflect claims that the Roman church was the beast of Revelation and the pope was the Antichrist. Many people today still believe it.

    As for the references to Persia and Greece here they are:

    Dan 10:20 Then said he, Knowest thou wherefore I come unto thee? and now will I return to fight with the prince of Persia: and when I am gone forth, lo, the prince of Grecia shall come.

    Chapter 8 of the Ram and the H-goat is all about the battle between Alexander the Great and the kings of Persia.

    The Medes and the Persians were co-rulers. One did not conquer the other. The Catholics split them up just as they did the tenth commandment after they deleted the second in order to keep the total at ten.

    There are other clues from the statue. The two legs represented two halves of a larger empire. Only the Roman empire was divided into east and west with two capitals. (Rome and Constantinople). The ten toes represent the ten countries that emerged when the Roman empire crumbled (the iron turned to clay).
    And the stone (Christ) that strikes the statue destroying Babylon and its pagan successors strikes these ten countries (but three have been plucked up by the roots) . This is the destruction of Babylon (paganism) in Revelation. The church must be purged of it before the wedding of Jesus to His people.
    None of this fits Greece or Islam.
    And I find it impossible for Daniel to tell the future of God’s people and totally leave out the empire that Jesus was born into and died under. Did God figure that the Roman empire was too insignificant to tell about in His prophecy? That is not logical, Captain!
    There are 8 successive kingdom from Daniel thru Revelation s. Can you identify them? Or are they still in the future?
    So much prophecy… so little time.
    The problem I have with all these theories is that they can match up maybe 10% of scripture and the rest they simply claim hasn’t happened yet. The Jews are saying that to this day about the prophecies about Jesus.

    As for the rapture, it seems that those who want to believe will always believe. I did at one time until I “troubleshot” it. When I scrutinized the scriptures, they did not hold water. Everything that rapturists believe is based on assumptions. I did not agree with those assumptions. They were as flimsy as those used to prove that the apostles moved the sabbath from Saturday to Sunday.
    If Christ was going to return twice He would have stated it clearly. The same is true about changing a commandment. I believe the Book of Revelation was written for God’s church, to study and to be ready for the final tribulation and testing of faith. If the faithful are to be taken away, then the rest of the book or perhaps the whole thing is written for people who will never read it. Once again, illogical.

    I find that all these alternative interpretations negate the basic premise of the Book of Revelation. Like the book of Jeremiah it is a warning to God’s people (now the Christians) that they have strayed from the law and will be punished if they do not repent. The mark of the beast will be a test and the 7 plagues will be the punishment. Babylon is modern-day pagan practices still used in many Christian churches which must be destroyed before Christ takes His bride.

    Those who say the beast is Islam and that Christians will be raptured away before the tribulation are in for a big surprise. And those who think the Law is no longer in effect are in for an even bigger surprise.

    Bless…

    • Hi James,

      Thanks for touching on your views regarding the rapture.

      I was hoping that you would have provided some scripture to support your belief, but it was still appreciated that you addressed the topic.

      I understand that theologically you are a Preterist, and I don’t intend to argue that belief with you.
      However, since you state that, “I believe the Book of Revelation was written for God’s church, to study and to be ready for the final tribulation and testing of faith.” would you then not choose to believe what Yeshua says in the book?

      Though there is still discussion amongst scholars as to whether John of Patmos was the same author of the Gospel of John, (reason being, that the author of the Apocalypse did not demonstrate the same command of the Greek language that was evident by the author of the Gospel, and a more overtly Jewish attitude was exhibited), it is still abundantly clear that this John was a follower of the “Way”, and had been exiled for keeping the testimony of Jesus Christ. (Revelation 1:9).

      The traditional time frame that has been speculated for when John was exiled to the Aegean archipelago island of Patmos, was during the reign of Emperor Domitian, (or Nero). According to early tradition, John wrote the Book of Revelation near the end of Domitian’s reign, around 95 or 96 AD. Others contend for an earlier date, 68 or 69, or shortly thereafter. Other scholars speculate a later date.

      My point is, and I think that you will agree, that no matter what time these scholars decide upon in the future as being correct, it will be easily, at the very minimum, at least 50 years after the Lords crucifixion.

      So to believe as you do, that the whole book itself has already been fulfilled in history, and would therefore not be prophetic in nature, how would you explain or interpret Revelation 1:19?

      Would you not agree that the context of that verse is from the inception of the vision onward?

      How would you interpret the whole chapter of Revelation 20?
      (The Saints are with Yeshua and reigning on the earth with Him.)

      I am just throwing these out there for you to contemplate over. I am too busy to be able to delve into a deep discussion over the topic with you, so you really don’t have to respond to this post at all.
      I just wish you all the best.

      Be Blessed

  148. I didn’t mean to imply that the seals or the return of Christ were fulfilled – that should be obvious. But the history parts – Chs 12-13 up to the 7th king have been. Many who believe the fourth beast (Daniel’s) is Islam, but it must be followed by four more. They generally toss those into the future believing that they will occur in a 3.5 year time frame (Time, times and half a time), while in fact it should be a 1260 year time frame (a day=a year in prophecy).
    Revelation foretells 2000 years of world history with the 7th kingdom (European Union) coming to pass officially less than a year ago.
    Most people are waiting for :
    A New World Order:
    A one-world religion
    An Antichrist figure who will take over the world
    The world to be divided into ten political regions
    A chip to be implanted in everyone’s hand or forehead.
    And oh yeah – the rapture.
    I don’t believe any of this will happen. I believe the seals will open, then the bowls and the trumpets and the plagues, then Christ’s return, all without any of the above happening. Islam will attack Israel in the war of Gog and it will be punished and all its armies destroyed. God will prove to them that there is no Allah and that He is their God and many will convert but others will remain to fight Jesus at the battle of Armageddon. There’s your destruction of Islam – but Islam is not Babylon.
    You bring up an interesting point in Revelation 1-3. Here Jesus addresses the seven churches and finds only one of them (Philadelphia) worthy of being the true church. This is exactly the theme of the entire book. Jesus will someday return and he will find 6 out of 7 modern day Christian churches unworthy to be His bride. (Numbers not precise of course, but we know that the true church is referred to in rev12 as a “remnant.”
    And don’t forget the parable of the ten virgins, half of which were “foolish” and were unprepared to be His brides and thus missed the wedding. This is yet another warning to Christians to be ready for His return. If you don’t understand what Babylon is you will not be ready! You may be Babylonian and not even know it…

    Ahh… don’t worry about it – it’s probably no big deal.
    🙂

    • Hi James,

      Above you say, “But the history parts – Chs 12-13 up to the 7th king have been.”

      But again I pose my original question to you regarding Revelation 1:19.

      “Write the things which thou hast seen , and the things which are , and the things which shall be hereafter ;”

      Would you not agree that the context of that verse is from the inception of the vision onward?

      Yeshua isn’t offering a history lesson to everyone. He is instead offering a prophecy and some insight into the future. This can be fully substantiated within the preface of the Book.

      The word “Revelation” is translated from the transliterated Greek “Apokalupsis” and it’s definitions are, “laying bear, making naked, a disclosure of truth, instruction concerning things before unknown, used of events by which things or states or persons hitherto withdrawn from view are made visible to all.”

      “(1) The “Revelation” of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to “shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass” ; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

      2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw .

      3 Blessed is he that readeth , and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein : for the time is at hand.

      Therefore “none” of the vision had anything to do with regarding to history, or to anything that had previously been fulfilled prior to John being on Patmos and receiving this Revelation.

      This fact refutes those that believe that the “male child” in Revelation 12 as being the history lesson of the birth of Yeshua.

      There is a funny aspect about the human condition, one that God is acutely aware of. We don’t tend to learn if we already believe we know it all. I think that was what He may have been referring to, when He said that we should come to Him as little children. It creates a stumbling block for many.

      Be Blessed

  149. I’m sure you agree that the books of Daniel and Revelation are connected and even overlap a little.
    Well, at one time it was all prophecy, but now almost all of it is history. The same is true for much of Revelation. Most of rev 13 is mirrored in Daniel and both are history – the fall of Rome, the Holy Roman Empire and its deadly wound and rebirth etc. Even the 70th “week” of Daniel is completed but most people think it won’t happen until just before Jesus returns.
    Revelation 12 refers to the same 1260 year reign of the Holy Roman Empire, when the true church was persecuted. It can’t be future because time is too late for such a long interval.
    The fact that John backs up 95 years to illustrate the birth of Christianity so that the reader may understand that the Jews are no longer God’s church doesn’t negate the statement that John would be shown future events. So the prophecy has a preface… so what?
    You reject the obvious and toss the prophecy into the future and you will wait forever if necessary for it to unfold. I see this everywhere and it is what I’m trying to warn people about.
    Just as the Jews totally missed Christ, most modern Christians are missing a whole bunch of prophecy and will be unprepared for the second coming.
    Where is John the Baptist when you need him?
    🙂

    • Well James, whether I think that your theology is off the wall or not, (as I am sure that you believe that mine is too) I believe that the motivation in your heart is in the right place.

      If you do happen to be right, then God should stand behind what you say and increase what you sow. On the other hand……..

      Nonetheless, what we may believe is inconsequential in Gods eyes.
      His desires will unfold as He wishes them to.

      Be Blessed

  150. Well I like your attitude anyway.
    As far as being off the wall, you must remember that the interpretation I refer to is not new. It was begun by Martin Luther over 500 years ago and was the only non-catholic interpretation until the 1830’s. Somehow, as the second coming gets near, all sorts of other theories have cropped up. I am reminded of the warning that in the last days there will be many false prophets – that Satan will try to muddy the waters and confuse the very elect. It is one reason I feel safer with my interpretation, beside the fact that it fits better than any of the alternatives.
    But my goal is more to plant a seed for the future. In case I’m not here when the shirt hits the fan. Hear me now and remember me later as Hans and Franz might say.
    Maybe someday you will be glad we had this discussion.
    If not, then I’ll see you in the New World Order.
    🙂

    • Hi James,

      Hmmm,
      The way that I see it was that there was this original Jewish assembly called “the Way” that was established by Yeshua our Lord, and taught by the Apostles who were indwelt by the Holy Spirit.

      Then along came Cornelius some 15 to 20 years later and the Apostles became aware that God was offering the same blessings to the Gentiles as well. The assembly then increased consisting of Jew and Gentile together.

      This assembly had the full knowledge required to practice our faith.
      Something that we unfortunately don’t possess, and have lost today.

      Reason being, is because when Constantine decided to make Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire, he and others that he appointed, decided to unceremoniously discard the doctrine that had been practiced for the last 300 years. (Don’t simply assume that because scripture states “that in the latter days there will be false prophets” that satan was taking a holiday back then.)

      Being a former teacher yourself, I think that if you were to do the same historical research that I have, that you would be quite interested to discover this fact. There is ample documentation available that shows that during many early council sessions, the church fathers and doctors established specific doctrine by utilizing their interpretation, rather than caring forward the doctrine of the Way. (It was all because of their Roman arrogance and belief in their superiority at the time, and “Bada-Bing” replacement theology was born.)

      I could give you many examples here myself, but this is your faith and it is up to you yourself to discover the real truth regarding it. Though the book itself is a considerable read, I could suggest that you search out a book that is available to download online called “The Coming of Messiah in Glory and Majesty” by Juan Josafat Ben-Ezra, which was a pen name for “Manuel Lancunza” (1731-1801) a Catholic priest of Jewish heritage.

      In just that book alone you would see examples which he quotes, that show which doctors and which scriptures were utilized, (and how ridiculously they were utilized by the ignorant), to establish what became doctrine.
      And many times their interpretation in those initial councils, superseded those of the original faith.

      When Martin Luther came on the scene, he challenged some of this doctrine, and that was the catalyst for the birth of the Protestant faith. However, this occurred after some 1200 years of corruption from the original faith, and to suggest that much of the Catholic doctrine or this replacement theology wasn’t also carried forward within the Protestant faith itself is simply wrong. For though some changes were definitely made, much of the Catholic ideology has remained intact. As a matter of fact, with you being a former Catholic, I think that you would be very much surprised to discover, how much your personal beliefs line up with that of the early church fathers and doctors. Not to be insulting whatsoever, but you would fit right in there with a bunch of them.

      I pose the following for your consideration;
      If lets say, God wanted His Word to be fully understood because it had been corrupted for a period of time, would He not in His Glory create avenues for that to be accomplished? (During the Catholic regime nothing new, not even the factual truth that the Earth revolves around the Sun could be expressed without the fear of being put to death.)
      So is there then the possibility, that through Martin Luther as His vessel the common people that could not read Latin but could read German, were finally able to read the Word themselves an act of God?

      If so, then wouldn’t it also then be logical, for new revelations from God be received?
      Perhaps revelations that had been previously understood and practiced some 1200 years ago, but had been discarded along the way by man, with the help of satan?
      Wouldn’t God in His Glory attempt to get us all back on track after this corruption?
      Therefore isn’t there the possibility, that what you perceive as being introduced as some new type of theology, is in actuality something that was previously understood by the Way?

      Something to think about there don’t cha think?

      The next question that comes to mind then is, is the seed that you are planting really the seed of God and an expression of His truth, or merely that of your own beliefs?

      Be Blessed

    • Also, just because an interpretation is “old,” doesn’t mean it’s true. Daniel is told to seal up the visions until the end, meaning it coudn’t be understood until now. Just the fact that they presumed to understand it 500 years ago, makes the interpretation suspect. They wouldn’t have been able to figure out the meaning, so if they figured something out, it probably WASN’T and ISN’T the meaning.

  151. James Giordano

    I admit I got confused there, the beast I was referring in Revelations is the one with seven heads and ten horns. And according to Daniel 7, the fourth beast had ten horns, I assume they are the same beast.

    The beast with ten horns according to Revelations:

    like a leopard – Greece (Syria/Lebanon)
    feet of a bear – Persia (Iran)
    mouth of a lion – Babylon (Iraq)

    Could it be that the 4th beast is the combination of the first three? These three nations are unified by one faith.

    I notice you keep pointing to Rome, because of the seven hills right? I’m not that good in History, I based my interpretations on whats been happening since Jesus ascended to heaven. But lets assume it’s Rome, isn’t it way too obvious?

    And Christian churches including Roman Catholic Church respects the “Separation of Church and State”, but not Islam, they have what they call “Shari’ah” based on Koran and Sunnah, which they insist to follow wherever they are.

    Unity of Kingdom and the church.

    Don’t forget the fact that Islam/Muslims never gets tired of trying to annihilate the children of Israel from the face of the planet. Christians would be next, if they become successful.

    Regarding the “Image”, wouldn’t you agree that the Old Testament can be considered an image of God and the New Testament the image of Jesus, we get to know them because of the Holy Books.

    The same should go for Allah/Muhammad, the Koran gives us an idea of who or what they really are. They killed those who refuse to convert to Islam during Muhammad’s time.

    (Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666.
    Revelation 13:18)

    Din’t you know? 666 is the number of Allah.

    http://www.66619.org/thequran.htm

    http://numerical19.tripod.com/

    And think about this verse:

    (Then I stood on the sand of the sea. And I saw a beast rising up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and on his horns ten crowns, and on his heads a blasphemous name.
    Revelation 13:1)

    What do you think could be the most “blasphemous name” there is?

    What else than a name claiming to be God when you’re not. Allah.

    But if you insist it’s Rome & the Pope, well, it’s up to you. Though, I don’t think I’ll see Christians killing non-Christians in the near future.

    • I agree that it being Rome is way too obvious. John says that to figure it out “calls for a mind with wisdom.” You don’t need much wisdom to say it’s Rome. Hey, maybe that’s why James….never mind. 😉

      Not to mention the fact that when the Old Testament prophets speak of the end time judgment of nations, they are ALL nations of the Middle East, i.e Muslim.

  152. Jesus said He will come again … whether in the book of revelations or in the gospels. Also not only john have vision. Paul also have vision of the “renewal of bodies”. Pretty much … there is a second coming

  153. I been searching on this page for three hours but I still can’t see the post of “HP” … who is “HP”? :- )

  154. I think most people here are settled now that the O.H.C.A. Church of the Latin rite is the “whore” of babylon … but the title of the blog is “Is the beast Rome?” … so this means rome is not the beast, but the harlot. Or the pope is the beast because of the VFD on the forged D.O.C.

    Now the questions is … since most of you identified the “fake” church … would you care to propose which one is the true church then …

    Those in favor of the “Baptist” founded by John Smyth … as the true church … say “Ai” … :- )

    • I vote for Jesus 🙂

      • good try … Lolz … but there’s a danger there … He may also say ” I don’t know you “.

        Gospel of John:

        “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.”

        >>>

        “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.”

        … meditate on these text … just a thought :- )

    • homo2fistulam,
      I think you have confused the whore (apostate Catholic church) of Revelation with the 4th beast in the book of Daniel which is clearly the Roman empire. The first beast of Revelation is the Holy Roman Empire and the next beast is the Vatican. The whore rides the beast, So the Catholic church rides the Vatican. The pope is the image of the Vatican and his title – Vicarius Filii Dei – adds up to 666 in Roman numerals. Everything fits.
      As for the true church, well that’s a good question. If such a church actually exists today, it must be free of pagan practices. It must harken back to the ancient church of Philadelphia perhaps more Jewish than Christian, as we know it today.
      It is certainly not the Baptist church or any other church that consistently breaks the fourth commandment and considers the Sabbath to have been properly moved to Sunday by the Roman emperor Constantine. Any church that recognizes Christmas or Easter is not the true church. Any church that displays statues or graven images of Jesus is not the true church.
      I could go on, but you get the point. Wherever the true church is, it is small or as rev12 calls it – a remnant. All other denominations are either the whore or a harlot daughter.
      Sorry John Smyth, you had the right idea, but you didn’t go far enough.

      • Hello there Brother James,

        Pax Christi …

        Is that how you feel about the O.H.C.A. in relation to Revelation 13?

        I will leave you with your opinion.

        However, atleast allow us to relate our side. (if you won’t mind)

        I cannot speak out about the first beast nor the Woman. But at least I can speak about the number 666, because this is the only one permitted by Saint John to be interpreted.

        Since Irenaeus (a very textual critical guy) never objected on the number even if he knows and jerome knows that there are codex text using 616. Because of this, we will take the number 666 as it is; as well a respect to your belief.

        666 as the revelation foretold is a number of a man, not “group of men” or a “title” of man (if you want to include VICARIVS FILII DEI as the title of a pope)

        Technically, Son of GOD is still being debated during the time of Constantine between the catholics and the arians (who believed Jesus is not fully GOD but demi GOD – much as the SDA and JW of today). This is why, the document “donation of Constantine” is considered a fabricated document done during the dark ages.

        “Son of GOD” also pertains to Israel, that is why it is inappropriate to use it as a title for a caretaker of the church.

        The appropriate term would be “VICARIVS CHRISTI”, which actually listed as the title of the pope in the Annuario Pontificio.

        Now, if you still insist that the pope is the 2nd beast, then you will have 256 beasts instead of “a man” (single beast) stated in the Rev13.

        And if you say, they are sons of the beast … that cannot be; as papal position is based on apostolic succession (the laying of hands Acts 8:17, Acts 19:6, Acts 9:17) and not through dynastic succession like the old emperial Rome.

        And if you still think it is Rome, you have to ask Saint Paul, what was the purpose of Jesus sending him there. (Acts 23:11) if it was the 1st beast. Actually to believe that the rome of today is the beast of Rev12 … only indicates that you do not believe that JESUS conquered Rome through Peter and Paul.

        I ask you to refrain from this belief and teachings, otherwise you may keep it till you “sleep”.

        May GOD enlighten you :::

        • The 2nd beast is the Vatican, not a pope. A beast is always a kingdom, not a man.The title Vicarius Filii Dei is engraved above the original dormitory of the popes in the Vatican, and it appeared on several scepters used by pope at the beginning of the last century, and it appears in many Vatican papers over the centuries. There are also 6 other papal titles that add up to 666 in both Hebrew and Greek.
          As for Jesus conquering Rome thru Peter and Paul, I don’t know what you mean. First of all, the 1st beast of Revelation is the Holy Roman Empire which didn’t begin until 538. And while Peter and Paul may have introduced Christianity to the Roman empire, it was corrupted by Satan thru the Roman government. The effects of Rome upon the church will not be repaired until Christ returns and destroys Babylon.
          So who do you believe is the 4th beast of Daniel, and the four beast kingdoms of Revelation?

          • James

            Emperor Nero in hebrew is 666 aned in latin 616. He is the Beast. He is reborn. His name is Silvio Berlusconi. Stop writing shit about the Pope and the Vatican.

          • Beast #1(from sea) = Kingdom (Old Roman Republic )
            Beast #2 (from earth) = Kingdom? (Old Roman Empire)
            Name of beast#2 = Man = 666
            10 Horns = 10 Kings (based on daniel)
            7 Heads = (not in daniel’s … only in revelations -risky to interpret)

            .
            .
            That should clear things a bit

            .
            .
            The Vatican has no King. The VFD was first suggested by the SDA as engraved in the tiara not in a dormitory or scepter … that is so hislop lolz.

            The book of revelation also states that 666 is “universal” … which means anybody can be able to calculate the number of the beast from the time the book of revelations was made, until today and in the future. If we are to consider VFD as the basis for 666, then those who have read the Book of revelation prior to the “Donation of Constantine” will have no knowledge of VFD at all.

            … only NERO’s name has the highest probability of being the number of beast #2 … only NERO hits both 666 and 616

            .
            .
            “As for Jesus conquering Rome thru Peter and Paul, I don’t know what you mean”

            You should read the passage below Daniel’s

            “Then the sovereignty, the dominion and the greatness of all the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be given to the people of the saints of the Highest One; His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all the dominions will serve and obey Him.”

            In catholic theology, Christ’s Kingdom is NOW reigning both in Heaven (triumphant) and on Earth (militant) … the fourth beast of Daniel is now gone …

            The second coming of Jesus Christ is not about establishing or re-establishing the church, but judgement and rewarding.

            .
            .
            Lolz, the holy roman empire is a germanic empire (8th to 9th century) .. your mixing it with constantine era.

            .
            .
            Also when reading the revelation, you should consider chronology … don’t mix up revelation 12/13 with 17 verses.

            .
            .
            If you will read Revelation 12 .. most are past events like the Archangel Michael vs the Dragon … it is a “flashback narrative”

            .
            .
            The Verse 13, was preceded by the revelation of a woman who gave birth. (which people consider her to be Mary)

            .
            .
            It was the dragon who attacked the woman not the beast, the dragon also “stayed” on the sea shore while the beast #1 arises from the sea (which means the rising of the Beast #1 is near to the messianic period) … then Beast #2 came out from the earth (probably) pertains to the succession period from pre-deocletian to the post-deocletian era.

            .
            .
            The whore of babylon :
            The woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, having in her hand a gold cup full of abominations and of the unclean things of her immorality, 5 and on her forehead a name was written, a mystery, “ BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.”

            .
            .
            -Emperor Diocletian took to wearing a gold crown and jewels, and forbade the use of purple cloth (Trabea) to all but the Emperors. His subjects were required to prostrate themselves in his presence (adoratio); the most fortunate were allowed the privilege of kissing the hem of his robe (proskynesis, προσκύνησις).-

            The Diocletian era is also known as Era of the Martyrs (Latin: anno martyrum or AM) which was a term used by the Church of Alexandria

            The Old Roman citizens also used the Ab urbe condita (AUC) era. Its name is Latin for “from the founding of the City (Rome) – this suggest of the description of the wounded beast by the “re-founding of rome by Deocletian.

            The whore of babylon sits at 7 heads with 10 horns

            the 10 horns were 10 kings (if GOD intends the Kings of Daniel’s has the same interpretation … otherwise … i’ll use the word probably)

            and the 7 heads (probably) the 7 Imperial seats of the Old Roman Empire when Deocletian introduced the “Rule of Four”

            Rome
            Mediolanum
            Ravenna
            Colonia Agrippina
            Augusta Treverorum
            Nicomedia
            Nova Roma (Constantinople)

            whatever is the outcome of your “numerical studies” ; we have to consider this passage.

            Letter to the Romans
            “But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

            my advise is … before knowing the who is the number 666 … it is wise to know that you are with Christ first … otherwise, it may end up in your forehead.

            ::: Again … a warning :::

            “I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.”

            • The Catholic church has spent centuries carefully crafting a believable story for it’s people and I see you have bought into it and that is fine. The whole (Christian) world will follow the beast (Vatican) and with 1.3 billion Catholics, that verse is already true.
              The real church is referred to as a remnant – very small, so I am happy not to be in the church with the biggest target on its back.
              But even Catholics don’t agree on prophecy. I listened to a priest on the catholic channel a little while ago and he said the Book of Revelation is already fulfilled and Christ has returned in the form of the pope and we are in the millennial kingdom right now. And that the true Christ may not ever return, seeing as the popes have been doing such a perfect job so far.
              I don’t care how devout you are, but that is just too big a stretch for me. But it is official catholic doctrine, right from the church itself.
              I believe your faith in Jesus will save you personally, but nothing is going to save your church.
              As St. Malachy predicted, Rome will burn. (Figuratively, I hope).
              So good luck and God bless.

                • Well this video disproves itself in the first 12 seconds.
                  If You read the intro carefully, the reporter says Nibiru is an invisible dot “right now” (time of the supposed broadcast) but then it says on the screen that it will become visible to the naked eye by May 2011 over a year ago. Problem is, it never showed up. Where the hell is it? Its been a year now, and if it’s going to hit the earth in December, it must be no farther away than mars. This close to the sun and 4x bigger than earth, it must be brightly visible in the sky, surely brighter than tiny mars which I can see every night.

                  Thought you had me this time, huh?

                  Sorry. 😦

                  • it can be seen in the southern hemisphere. pictures were taken of it from an airplane. watch the rest of the video.

                  • James
                    I got info from astrologers whos not working from Nasa that we can see Nibiru from Antarctic. He gave us this info summer 2011. So the Video doesn´t speak against itself. Jesus lived with us. But left us recently to the Vatican with the words my father is here with one of his planets. The Vatican knows that the Nibiru is here through their faith. We in the Ortodox Church knows that Nibiru is here through our faith.

              • The book of revelation has stages … you don’t mix the events as it happens in order to justify the things that you see in your lifetime.

                Revelations 13 and 17 have many events that passed between them. What I shown you is not made up stories … it’s historical, I just wiki it this evening … lolz.

                the bottom line here is

                The false Christ will look like a sheep … or the sheep will look like the false Christ … it has to be vice versa, otherwise; “even the elect” won’t get fooled. (based on the gospels not revelation)

                it depends on how a person view it.

                Lolz, I’ll buy that priest an ice cream for being “stupid” (but ofcourse, I did not see the channel so I can’t take what you say; however, if it happens in america … chances the priest may do that … priest in america is the most disturbed of all the clergy in the world … they have to stand by their faith while denominations sprung like mushrooms … may the Holy Spirit Strengthen them … Amen)

                … the Pope cannot and will never be Christ.

                … I believe the revelations is still not fulfilled … from chapter 20, onwards.

                so you can still continue your “studies” … but please, atleast do the beatitudes, or the isaiah 58, cause when you are asked, what have you done (revelation 22:12) … you can’t just say “I found out who is 666” … :- )

        • oops just as I thought .. I’m wrong … lolz,

          The church of Philadelphia and smyrna (mentioned by ireneaeus) are only two churches out of 7 churches with grade “A” from Jesus … but I don’t see the relation between SDA and the two churches

          … if you consider a church “more Jewish than Christian” … then we can say only the O.H.C.A has sacrificial rite and sacerdotal formation much like the old formation of judaism.

          And if you are concerned about the moving from Saturday to Sunday … I think we should have a compromise … based on passages below :- )

          Gospel of Mark
          “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath; so the Son of man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

          Thereby man is not a slave of saturday; and the Lord is the master of Saturday …

          Also:

          Letter to the Romans:
          “One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God.”

          which means … honor which day you feel is correct for you.

          To inform you further, the O.H.C.A. Church celebrates mass EVERYDAY with the LATRIA based on the book of malachi, the breaking of bread, and the affirmation of the council of trent …

          This means we don’t miss any day of the week, everyday is offering to GOD.

          “For from the rising of the sun even to its setting, My name will be great among the nations, and in every place incense is going to be offered to My name, and a grain offering that is PURE; for My name will be great among the nations,”

          LATRIA: (our official form of worship to GOD, no latria has been offered to mama mary, or angels or saints ever!!!

          … to us; bowing down is not enough to be considered a worship, as david also bowed in front of saul … face flat) …

          Graven images of things … lots of them in the temple of solomon and the instruction of the lord to Moses and ezekiel

          Graven image of Christ … the basic old rule here is … don’t make graven image for no one sees GOD … but since JESUS was already seen and walked on earth … then the old rule is now “fulfilled” and no longer binding.

          “Whoever has seen me has seen the Father.”

          Have a nice day. 🙂

      • The Catholic Church rides the Vatican? Aren’t they one and the same?

  155. consider this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z97FSkZPVjQ

  156. consider this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W04Jh3321yo

  157. Adam said (somewhere above):
    James
    Emperor Nero in hebrew is 666 and in latin 616. He is the Beast. He is reborn. His name is Silvio Berlusconi. Stop writing bad words about the Pope and the Vatican.

    I have heard this explanation before. It was created by a Catholic church council to counter the charges of Martin Luther who was calling the pope the antichrist.
    Problem is, it happened before the Prophecy was given, So it was history, not a future event, So it makes no sense. Also, he just doesn’t fit all the rest of the prophecy. I tried to make it work years ago and it just doesn’t fit.
    So do you believe in reincarnation? The discredited, ousted leader of Italy will be the antichrist? He will rule the New World Order? I suppose he will be killed and come back to life – again. Can you verify this scientifically or in scripture?
    Of course not – your’e just making it up and expect us to believe it because you say so. You are trying to misdirect the prophecy away from the Vatican to someone or anyone just as the Catholic church tried to do 500 years ago. It is good to be loyal, but not to an apostate church. Open your mind and seek the truth. I did it years ago. It was difficult but my desire for truth was stronger than my ties to the Catholic church.
    I will pray that you find the truth, whatever it might be.

    • James

      I beleive in reincarnation! Sb was the EU leader (Roman empire) who should force Isreal to a peace agreement in Jerusalem and he had the EU behind him. He was also the man who should implement the new currency a chip that can be reached from all over the world = www = 666 in old greek. This chip is US central banks idea. The dollar and Euro is not worth so much. He died as Nero and came back as SB. The book Rev. is written in year 80-90. Nero died about year 68. He was , he is not and will come back.
      Jesus said if you will not be reborn you will not see Gods kingdom which is the Earth.
      Sorry my friend. The Pope and The Vatican has nothing to do with 666. It´s your apstate church who has missled you.
      The Pope and Vatican rules right now.

      • Adam,
        While I think your idea is crazy, I will keep an eye on Bersconi anyway, just in case. Many think it will be Obama. Some think Juan Carlos of Spain. Others believe Jimmy Carter. Maybe everyone is right and there will be 4 Antichrists. Personally, I don’t think there will be even one.
        The main thing is that we must all be vigilant and prepare for the Second Coming. If we learn all the possibilities we can be ready for whatever happens.
        We won’t be punished for wrongly interpreting prophecy. But we don’t want to be like the ancient Jews who missed the appearance of their messiah completely. Unfortunately, I think history will repeat itself, as the prophecy says. the whole world will follow the beast.
        I pray you are not one of them.
        Bless.

        • James
          You don´t have to have an eye on Berlusconi. Jesus is in the Vatican now and the peaceprocess is stopped. Sb is not the european leader anymore. But the Beast is him. So scriptures will not be fullfilled.

          • Wow, your story gets crazier by the minute.
            Jesus has returned and sits in the Vatican as we speak?
            Would that be the pope?
            A man who calls himself God?
            Well, that fits perfectly with what I’ve been saying all along.
            So I think that scriptures will indeed be fulfilled.
            We shall see…

            • James
              I don´t think Silvio B is the antichrist. Only the beast and the 666 man or 616. Regarding Jesus in the Vatican. I´m Android I Just changed my name!

              • Yeah, I figured that out about an hour ago. There couldn’t possibly be two androids so I figured you just changed your name.
                Glad to have you back. I like talking to crazy people. It makes me feel more sane and that’s a good feeling.
                🙂

  158. Is there anyone who can help me with the Hebrew language.
    My mothers surname is Erel. I know that EL is Gods name in the book Genesis on the Hebrew Bible and I know that Er is son to Juda. But does Er mean something in Hebrew?

  159. Thanks, Marianne! Actually It’s Jesus mothers surname (who is in the Vatican now). I wondered what it meant. So h e’s surname means lion of God. Cool

  160. nibiru ? photo taken from an airplane over Australia

    http://www.ursuadams.com/2012/05/30/new-32o-of-insanity-05-31-12-scientist-records-hmo-in-antartica-the-nibiru-system-decoded/

    • Marianne
      There is no way to make James to listen to us. I have given him so much info that Nibiru is here but he wont listen. He´s very stubborn! James look at the sky between 21-23 dec and you will see Nibiru!

      • Adam,
        I just watched this ridiculous video and it was a hoot. This guy is obviously having way too much fun making these things. I’m sure he is getting a kick out of fooling so many gullible people.
        Now right off the bat he contradicts the theory that Nibiru can only be seen from Antarctica. He shows photos with the sun in them, so anyone who can see the sun should be able to see Nibiru.
        Then he says he is tracking a rogue planet in NGC 246 – the skull nebula. This nebula is 2100 light years away, or 12 quadrillion miles. And we’re supposed to think it poses a danger to earth?
        Plus this idiot shows another Nibiru photo taken in the constellation Leo, which is nowhere near the sun. He uses any photo he can find that might look like something, but they are all just gaseous nebulae, not planets.
        Plus half the time the planet is as bright as a star, but planets do not glow on their own so that is bogus.
        The object seen in the Antarctica is lens flare. Notice how it changes vastly in size as it rises. A planet or even a star can’t do that.
        He shows half a dozen different photos taken in different regions of space and claims to see the “Nibiru System” in all of them. He takes a group of stars and claims they are Nibiru and its moons and perhaps some giant spaceships – all glowing brightly like stars.
        Come on people, I’ve been looking at these kinds of photos as well as the real things since I was 6 years old and I can tell you that nothing he showed us was a planet.
        But as long as gullible people keep tuning in to his radio show he will keep this nonsense up, at least until he is proven to be a complete fraud. Then he will probably admit he was having some fun at other’s expense and it was all just a joke.
        Then you will have to find some new idiots to follow and find a new disaster about to happen.
        Meanwhile why doesn’t everybody pick up an astronomy book and study a little. Then at least you will armed against the next wave of doomsayers, whoever they may be.
        🙂

        • the sun is bigger than nibiru. so it can be seen in both hemispheres.

          nibiru is smaller, and can only be seen now in the southern hemisphere.

          also the sun is in Leo right now.