Identify Messiah by Birth and Death

 

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First to the Jew, then the Gentile.

Most unlearned gentiles accept quotations from the New Testament when witnessing to them.

Jews are different.

They will not accept scriptures unless it comes from just their bible, the Tenach, which most Christians call the Old Testament.

I have heard Christians try what would appeal to a gentile audience on a Jewish person, and watch them fail, because they do not know how to present the scriptures from the Tenach to a Jew.

The Jew has a Jewish interpretation, not a gentile one.

Surprise…!

Christians do not think like Jews, so they fail.

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For example, I heard a Jewish rabbi tell his Jewish audience about being presented a set of questions to challenge him:

(1)

Christian: There used to be shed blood for the forgiveness of sins. What do you do now, that there are no more sacrifices?

Rabbi: we pray and repent

(2)

Christian: what do you say about the virgin birth of the Messiah?

Rabbi: That is not the correct English interpretation of the Hebrew scripture. You have to look at the Hebrew, which does not say virgin. And look at the surrounding scriptures, which is NOT referring to the Messiah.

(3)

Christian: Why don’t you accept Jesus as Messiah? He was the Suffering Servant predicted.

Rabbi: There is no world peace. We have expectations of what the Messiah will do for Israel, and Jesus did not do this. The Messiah will be a King, and rule from Jerusalem. Israel is the suffering servant. We have suffered for thousands of years.

This leaves the Christian speechless.

I found the best way is to present a puzzle, but also be well versed on the answer.

There are many scriptures which could, or could not have Messiah as the interpretation.

The one from Isaiah about the suffering servant is an example.

One has to present just facts, bits and pieces, where there can only be one interpretation, or where deductive reasoning can come to just one conclusion.

Then let the Jew think it out himself.

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Timing of Messiah

Daniel’s 70 weeks predicts the timing. Daniel 9:

24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah (Anointed one) the Prince shall be seven weeks (heptads), and threescore and two weeks (heptads): the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

The word Moshiach here is used, which is the Jewish term for Messiah.

Seven heptads/ weeks are 490 years

Threescore and two (62) weeks are 483 years.

The Jews consider Cyrus II (550-529 BCE) to be the one who gave the decree, which was in his 1st year

of rule. (Ezra 4:5)

Cyrus, although called anointed by God, would NOT be around 483 years after he gave the decree. So rule this out as Cyrus being the anointed one.

Artaxerxes I (465-425 BCE) also issued a decree to rebuilt the city in his 20th year (Neh 2:1-8).

Other decrees II (Darius and Artaxerxes II) were about the temple and supplies.

Whether Cyrus or Artaxerxes, the 483 years would have been up between 67 BCE and 38 CE.

That was long ago.

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Ancient Jewish tomb

Unnatural Death

26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

The word Moshiach (Messiah) here is used again, so it is very clear who Daniel is talking about.

And he dies NOT for himself, so it must be for others.

Messiah, then does not die peacefully, or of old age. He is killed or removed in an unnatural way.

Here is a list of prophets that were killed, or removed unnaturally

(reference http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/bb/bb32.htm ):

Isaiah

Joel

Amos

Elijah – raptured

Micah

Habakkuk

Jeremiah, son of Hilkiah

Ezekiel

Ahijah – killed by lion

Zechariah

None of these prophets died in the timeline of the 70 week prophecy

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Birthplace of Messiah (Micah 5)

2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Bethlehem is the birthplace.

The Ruler is the Messiah, although it does not used the word Messiah. We can make it an assumption, to start, and see if any other interpretation can fit here.

There have been many rulers in Israel. This one is different, or it would not get special mention.

King David was born there.

No other ruler in Israel was born in Bethlehem in the past.

Reference:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lives_of_the_Prophets

No ruler today in Israel could have been born there, or will be born there, as it is now Muslim occupied.

The ruler is from “everlasting,” or “antiquity” before he comes.

Either this means he has an eternal nature, or he was around a long time ago, and returns.

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Ruler gives up on Israel, then returns (Micah 5)

3 Therefore will he give them up, UNTIL the time that she which travails has brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.

According to Daniel 9, Messiah gets killed or removed, or cut off, before his mission is complete.

It seems he would have no choice to give them up, if he is killed.

He returns once she (Israel) has travailed.

This could either mean the holocaust, the rebirth of Israel, or the time of Jacob’s trouble (Great Tribulation).

Since the holocaust and rebirth of Israel (1948) are past, the only known option left is the Great Tribulation.

The ruler does seem to be the messiah

4 And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the Lord, in the majesty of the name of the Lord his God; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth.

-‘

Ruler shows up when the Assyrian attacks Israel in future

5 And this man shall be the peace, when the Assyrian shall come into our land: and when he shall tread in our palaces, then shall we raise against him seven shepherds, and eight principal men.

Ruler brings peace.

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Putting the pieces together

SO, what prophet, leader, or potential ruler was born in Bethlehem in antiquity ,

who lived between 67 BCE and 38 CE ,

who was killed or cut off,

gave up on his people,

and will return when the Assyrian invades Israel,

which will be a time of travail?

 

 


126 Responses to “Identify Messiah by Birth and Death”

  1. […] here for […]

  2. Jesus fulfilled a big part of all the prophecies written about him in the last week/ day of his earthly life.The mathematical chances of that happening are mind boggling!…It would be great to see a follow up to this post Marianne, regarding “The Assyrian”…..I believe this man is alive now, and that indeed, we have no more than 16 years before the final termination of earth’s system of life.

  3. ‘I will put enmity
    between you and the woman,
    and between your offspring and her offspring;
    he will bruise your head,
    and you will bruise his heel.’ – Genesis 3:15

    Genesis 3:15 verse should refer to the virgin birth (woman’s offspring) of the Messiah.

    And there is no way for the suffering of the Israel (as the present day’s Jews called themselves, the suffering servant) to bring healing and cleansing of sin to the world.

    They fail to mention the coming of the expected Messiah’s redemption mission to suffer for the world, but only to proclaim that the Messiah to uplift Israel among all nations, to fulfil their selfish Zionist desire.

    They have forgotten about they role to bring the gospel to the world and the purpose of sacrifices about shedding blood for the forgiveness of sins. And fail to notice the Christ who was the fulfilment of the sacrificial system of the old covenant.

    Zionism is the present day’s idolatry for the modern Israel.

    • Yes Aberdeen, Israel in it’s current state is on the most part still rebellious toward Jesus. However the eternal plan of the Living God is to save a remnant as promised.The beginning of this was in 1948, when He rose Israel from the grave.I believe that 1/3 of the Jewish population will be saved!

    • aberdeen

      understood, but remember a woman who has offspring is not a virgin

      • But before she conceived Jesus she was, and that’s the most important part!

        • glenn

          ANY woman can say that … 🙂

          the reference was to EVE as well

          • Not true, Mary did not conceive her first child by the usual manner, but by a miraculous move by God’s Holy Spirit.Name one other woman who that has happened too?

            • original verse being discussed:

              ‘I will put enmity
              between you and the woman,
              and between your offspring and her offspring;
              he will bruise your head,
              and you will bruise his heel.’ – Genesis 3:15

              god was talking to Eve

              • I am sorry, but Eve had nothing to do with the future salvation of mankind!…in fact just the opposite!…This verse refers to the Messiah, who’s heel would be bruised, that is would be wounded, but Satan’s head would be bruised…that is suffer a mortal wound.It also refers to the two offspring, that would eventuate…a Godly and an evil offspring.God dealt with this the first time with the flood, the second with Jesus!

                • When God spoke to the Serpent it was a prophetic statement!

                • When Eve gave birth to Cain she thought she was giving birth to the Messiah. That is why she called him Cain. What a disappointment that must have turned out for her.

                  While we are on the subject of Cain and Abel: These two represents the two classes of Christians in the church. Cain was a believer in God. But Cain sought salvation though works whilst Able sought it through faith. Both brought sacrifices but only Abel’s was accepted. Abel brought a sin offering while Cain brought a thanks offering but God wanted a sin offering. Cain became angry and Jealous of Abel and he killed him.

                  The same thing will happen in the last days. These events are recorded for those of us living at the end of the world people.

              • Was God really talking to Eve when he said “woman?” or was he referring to his church? A woman in Bible prophecy is a church. God’s church was expecting the messiah to come hence a pregnant woman depiction in Revelation 12. It is all symbolism. If you take it literally you really are missing the point entirely.

              • Why can’t the offspring be plural referring to Christ and His body, the Church?
                Colossians 1: 16 says. “Christ is the head of the church, which is his body. He is the beginning, supreme over all who rise from the dead.”

                “you shall bruise his heel”-bruising possibly being the tribulation saints who are the last part-or heel-of Christ’s body.

      • Can we say in mother Mary case, she conceive from the Holy Spirit, so she is not virgin? From genealogy recording, we always recognized that we are son/daughter of our father.

        • yes but your scripture was about Eve 🙂

          • Plural referring of the scripture, those prophetic words for Satan about the Messiah, an offspring of a women conceive by the Holy Spirit not by any man, means He did not inherit the original sin from Adam, did not have a sin nature (1 Corinthians 15:45-48). And it is also a sign for the Jews, but at least the family, Jesus born into, knew the baby was the Messiah.

  4. Another good one Marianne 😊

  5. The Jews didn’t accept Jesus 2000 years ago either as they had and still have a misinterpretation of Bible Scripture. They were expecting a messiah that would literally free Judah of Roman rule and when it was made clear to them that was not Jesus’ mission many of them walked away and no longer walked with Jesus.

    Nothing new under the sun.

  6. The story of Leviticus 23 tells the story of Yeshua. That is what I use.

  7. How to witness to Jews.
    Topic Old Testament New Testament
    Messiah to be the seed of the Woman Genesis 3:15; Galatians 4:4

    Messiah to be the seed of Abraham Genesis 12:3; 18:18
    Luke 3:23,34; Matthew 1:1-2; Acts 3:25; Galatians 3:16

    Messiah to be of the tribe of Judah Genesis 49:10; Luke 3:33; Matthew 1:1-2

    Messiah to be of the seed of Jacob Numbers 24:17, 19; Matthew 1:1-2
    Luke 3:34

    Messiah to be of the seed of David Psalm 132:11; Jeremiah 23:5; 33:15
    Isaiah 11:10; Matthew 1:6; Luke 1:32-33; Acts 2:29-30; Romans 1:3

    Messiah to be a prophet like Moses Deut. 18:15, 19; Matthew 21:11
    John 6:14; John 1:45; Acts 3:22-23

    Messiah to be the Son of God Psalm 2:7; Proverbs 30:4; Luke 1:32
    Matthew 3:17

    Messiah to be raised from the dead Psalm 16:10; Acts 13:35-37

    Messiah to experience crucifixion Psalm 22; Psalm 69:21; Matthew 27:34-50; John 19:28-30

    Messiah to be betrayed by a friend Psalm 41:9; John 13:18, 21

    Messiah to ascend to heaven Psalm 68:18; Luke 24:51
    Acts 1:9

    Homage and tribute paid to Messiah by great kings Psalm 72:10-11
    Matthew 2:1-11

    Messiah to be a priest like Melchizedek Psalm 110:4; Hebrews 5:5-6

    Messiah to be at the right hand of God Psalm 110:1; Matthew 26:64
    Hebrews 1:3

    Messiah, the stone which the builders rejected, to become the head cornerstone Psalm 118:22-23; Isaiah 8:14-15; Isaiah 28:16
    Matthew 21:42-43; Acts 4:11; Romans 9:32-33; Ephesians 2:20
    1 Peter 2:6-8

    Messiah to be born of a virgin Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:18-25
    Luke 1:26-35

    Galilee to be the first area of Messiah’s ministry Isaiah 9:1-8
    Matthew 4:12-16

    Messiah will be meek and mild Isaiah 42:2-3; Isaiah 53:7
    Matthew 12:18-20; Matthew 26:62-63

    Messiah will minister to the Gentiles Isaiah 42:1; Isaiah 49:1-8
    Matthew 12:21

    Messiah will be smitten Isaiah 50:6; Matthew 26:67; Matthew 27:26, 30

    Messiah to suffer, die and rise again Isaiah 52:13-53:12
    The four gospels
    The new and everlasting Covenant Isaiah 55:3-4; Jeremiah 31:31-33
    Matthew 26:28; Mark 14:24; Luke 22:20; Hebrews 8:6-13

    Messiah as the right arm of God Isaiah 59:16; Isaiah 53:1; John 12:38

    Messiah as intercessor Isaiah 59:16; Hebrews 9:15

    Twofold mission of the Messiah Isaiah 61:1-11; Luke 4:16-21

    Messiah will perform miracles Isaiah 35:5-6; John 11:47; Matthew 11:3-6

    Messiah is called “The Lord” Jeremiah 23:5-6; Acts 2:36

    The time of Messiah’s coming prophesied Daniel 9:24-26
    Galatians 4:4; Ephesians 1:10

    Bethlehem to be the place of Messiah’s birth Micah 5:2; Matthew 2:1
    Luke 2:4-6

    Messiah will enter the Temple with authority Malachi 3:1; Matthew 21:12

    Messiah will enter Jerusalem on a donkey Zechariah 9:9; Matthew 21:1-10

    Messiah will be pierced Zechariah 12:10; Psalm 22:16; John 19:34, 37

    Messiah to be forsaken by his disciples Zechariah 13:7
    Matthew 26:31, 56

    The coming of the Holy Spirit in the days of the Messiah Joel 2:28-29
    Acts 2:16-18

    Opposition of the nations; Messiah’s final victory over death Psalm 2:2
    Isaiah 25:8; Revelation 19:19; 1 Corinthians 15:54; Revelation 7:17; 21:4

    The glorious Messiah; Messiah as King Isaiah 63:1; Psalm 2:6-9
    Revelation 19:11-16; Revelation 19:15-16

    Submission of all nations to Messiah’s rule Isaiah 2:4; Micah 4:1-4
    Revelation 12:5

    The Gentiles shall seek the Messiah of Israel Isaiah 11:10; Romans 11:25

    • like I said, a lot of jews can fit some of these descriptions, and some can be forced fitted to match messiah, and others have not been fulfilled yet

  8. Excellent Marianne! But in the process of trying to convince a few hardened people you will convince many unhardened. Praise God! Lovely understanding of wonderful prophecies.

  9. Without the understanding of reincarnation, much of what is in the Holy books will be misunderstood

  10. When Paul preached to the Bereans they searched the Scriptures daily to see whether what he was saying was true. Now at that time the Scriptures were the books of the Old Testament. The new had not yet been written. So if you want to prove Jesus to the literal Jews it must be possible to do so only from the Old Testament.

    Also the New Testament is based on the Old Testament. Both agree with each other. Isa 8:20 To the law and to the prophets: if they speak not according to this world there is no light in them. See Gal 1:6-9 for the New Testament version of Isa 8:20.

  11. ANy Jewish person can be saved using ANY Scripture from the Bible. The only reason there are many Jews who have not received Jesus is because of what God is trying to do in the world:
    Romans 11:25 “For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.” Israel is travailing as the entire Gentile elect are being saved…

  12. Snowflake, Jes us was scourged with a Roman whip called a Flagron.It consisted of two or three thongs attached to a leather handle to which was attached either lead or bits of sea-shell.They bruised , they cut, often to the bare bone.Two people were normally used to administer the punishment, one on either side of the victim.

    • Yes, and He was also crucified…it was not just a mere bruising. Jesus is the head of the body not the heel. Read your Bible.

      • I am well aware He was also crucified Snowflake!…get off your holier than thou self righteous horse!..I was merely trying to answer your question regarding what Jesus went through during His Passion!…I have been studying Scripture for over 40 years and it inspires me even more today than ever!

  13. Well done, Marianne!

  14. That was very good Marianne. Good way to get our sword warmed up! 🙂 Thank you! You have a creative mind.

  15. The above START of the Conversation ‘ Identifying the Messiah . . . ‘

    had a good interpretation that is consistent with what Jesus fulfilled at His original coming . . .

    NOT that which we should be looking ahead for to , in the future . . .
    Jesus fulfilled all this points already !

    Seventy weeks in Daniel should be understood as weeks , not years !

    It should read ,

    [ Jesus’ ministry was 70 wks 490 days ! ] are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city , to finish the transgression , and to make an end of sins , and to make reconciliation for iniquity [ Jesus’ once for all , for all time , perfect sacrifice ] ,

    and to bring in everlasting righteousness [ Jesus overcoming death and rising from the grave ] ,

    and to seal up the vision and prophecy , and to anoint the most Holy [ Jesus ascended into heaven was the anointing and Jesus sat down at the right hand of God ] – ” it is finished ” . MOST PERFECT !

    ALSO, it is mentioned . . . And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off , but not for Himself [ that was the crucifixion for us ] .

    . . . and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary [ WAS FULFILLED 70 AD ] .

    READ ABOUT THE ABOMINATION OF THE ROMANS IN THE HOLY OF HOLIES !

    THE SEVENTY WEEKS OF DANIEL :

    A STARTING POINT — PASSION WEEK – 70 wks
    Winter Soletice 30AD middle of wk Jesus dies Jesus Rises
    3790 HANUKKAH 14APR32A.D.3792 17APR32.A.D.

    According to Hebrew history and biblical time-lines , King David was born , 2854 years after Adam . He lived 70 years. The coming year 5778 ( our year SEP 2017 ) is the expected year of the Messiah’s Kingdom to come and the end of the world as we know it – according to some manuscripts of Jewish origin .

    That means that when David was 35 Years old ( half his age ) the world was also exactly half its age 2889 .. i.e the midpoint of David’s life AND was also the midpoint of the history of this world ( 2889 ) .
    Also . . . interestingly . . . King David was born in 2854 . King David died in 2924 ( at 70years ) . 2854 + 2924 = 5778 . The year 2018 .

    Now if you subtract 5778 from 6000 you are left with 222 years ! How does that work out ? Well you have to understand the grand secret !

    Paradise was complete for 222 years before Adam and Eve sinned !

    ( 222 + 5778 = 6000 ) . SOLUTION TO PUZZLE .

    Another point . . . God said He wouldn’t tarry with man more than 120.

    In Genesis 6 we find ,
    [ A World Gone Wrong ] Then the people began to multiply on the earth , and daughters were born to them . The sons of God saw the beautiful women and took any they wanted as their wives . Then the Lord said , “ My Spirit will not put up with humans for such a long time , for they are only mortal flesh . In the future , their normal lifespan will be no more than 120 years . ”

    If you count 50 year periods that are God’s Jubilees you find
    120 X 50 = 6000 . So including the time of paradise
    222 + 5778 is 6000 years .

    Everyone is waiting for tribulation and doom and gloom !

    Jesus said just like the time of Noah :

    Matthew 24:37 “When the Son of Man returns, it will be like it was in Noah’s day .

    Matthew 24:38 In those days before the flood, the people were enjoying banquets and parties and weddings right up to the time Noah entered his boat .

    Matthew 24:37-41 But as the days of Noah [ were ] , ( Noah experienced and survived the flood – God’s promise and fulfillment ) so shall also the coming of the Son of man be .

    ( Rather that of being raptured, Noah and his sons were prepared a place of safety . ) For as in the days that were before the flood they
    ( the wicked ) were eating and drinking , marrying and giving in marriage , until the day that Noah entered into the ark , ( The place of safety . ) ,

    And KNEW NOT until the flood came , and took them ( the wicked ) all away ; ( Notice that Noah was in the ark SEVEN full DAYS before the rain started and the Messiah said “ THEY ” ( the wicked ) “ KNEW NOT ”
    ( understood not ) “ UNTIL THE FLOOD CAME ” and took them all away .

    Yeshua did NOT mention one syllable about any repenting during those seven days ; but on the contrary , Yeshua said the wicked had NO Understanding until the flood ( time of God’s promise ) was already upon them . ) so shall also the coming of the Son of man be .

    ( Yeshua then repeated for clarity , meaning that His coming is like the days of Noah , returning to a wicked generation who will not understand even up unto the Day of the Lord ( not judgment but God’s fulfillment ) .

    Think about it , if the wicked of our generation were to understand or repent , would the nations still gather at Jezreel ? No . )

    Then shall two be in the field ; the one shall be taken , and the other left .
    ( This is the major quote used by the tribulation rapture theorists and they’ve got it backward . Who was taken and who was left in Noah’s day ? The evil ones / tares were taken .

    Noah was left ! The righteous were the ones who were left ! )

    Two [ women shall be ] grinding at the mill ; the one shall be taken , and the other left . (Proverbs 10:30 , says ,

    “ the righteous will never be removed . ”
    So who was removed ? The evil ones , the tares , Noah dwelt safely in the ark that he and his sons prepared .

    The person who has the fullness of God is “a righteous person,
    ” WILL BE SAVED ! ”

    Genesis 6:9 [ The Story of Noah ] This is the account of Noah and his
    family . Noah was a righteous man , the only blameless person living on earth at the time , and he walked in close fellowship with God .

    God swore He would not again punish man .
    ( Jesus was OUR cure and remedy . Jesus is OUR complete reconciliation to bring us back to the fullness of God ) .

    Isaiah 54:9 “Just as I swore in the time of Noah that I would never again let a flood cover the earth , so now I swear that I will never again be angry and punish you .”

    BECAUSE OF JESUS’ PERFECT WORK !

    It is not up to man . . . what we do or don’t do . . . nothing can match what Jesus did ! We don’t have any righteousness !

    IT IS ALL ABOUT GOD !

    SO HOW CAN WE BE RIGHTEOUS ? !

    How can we love God with all of our heart , with all of our soul , with all of our mind , with all of our might . . . and our neighbor as ourself ?

    WE CAN ONLY DO THIS WITH GOD . . . IT IS GOD LOVING US WITH ALL OF GOD’S HEART , WITH ALL OF GOD’S SOUL , WITH ALL OF GOD’S MIND , WITH ALL OF GOD’S MIGHT , WITH ALL OF GOD’S LIFE ,
    HIS POWER FROM ON HIGH IN US !

    YES , GOD IN US !

    HOW BY RECEIVING JESUS ,

    ( YESHUA – GOD’S SALVATION THE FULLNESS OF GOD ) IN US !

    DON’T BE DECEIVED . WE NEED RIGHTEOUSNESS TO BE SAVED AND TO BE SAFE . God says you must be Holy because I AM HOLY !

    WE NEED TO ” SEE ” AND ” KNOW ” GOD.
    IT IS BY REVELATION . . . IT IS BY GOD’S REVELATION IN US !

    IT IS BY JESUS IN US !

    THERE IS NO OTHER WAY !

    • Kanoa I don’t know where you learnt your Theology, but I’m afraid it is very wanting!…The 70 weeks you refer to from the book of Daniel ARE years NOT weeks.The earthly ministry of Jesus lasted 3.50 lunar years, or 1260 days, from his baptism, to his crucification!…The four Gospels attest to this, as do the Church Fathers, who I’m sure know a little bit more than you do!.With all your number crunching, fudging and pulling imaginary numbers out of the air, you will be only making people more confused than they already are!. Stick to what the Bible says, and not what you think it says!

      • The problem with current teaching is that people are already confused by so many assumptions and incorrect teaching.

        The doom and gloom message and also the ‘ me all the time, ‘ what’s in it for me , kind of feel good understanding has destroyed God’s original message .

        Jesus is our revelation of the fullness of God in us.
        We are the Heart and Soul of God, that is how He made us . . .
        it is about , all of Him . . . NOT US.

        Without that presence of God in us it is impossible to please Him because we remain disconnected from Him . . . for God is the only One Righteous !

        Jesus is the fullness of God and has produced Righteousness for us by exactly what Jesus said . . .”If you Love Me I and My Father will make our abode in you. ‘ and , “that you will behold My Glory , that My Joy will be made full in you.”

        EVERYTHING IS MADE PERFECT BY GOD.

        SEE BELOW .
        TO BE CONTINUED . . .

      • Daniel 9:24 “Seventy weeks are decreed for your people and your holy city: to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place.”

        • THIS IS A PROPHESY OF JESUS’ MINISTRY !

          • Two quotes from you, Kanoa, a few statements prior –

            “The coming year 5778 ( our year SEP 2017 ) is the expected year of the Messiah’s Kingdom to come and the end of the world as we know it – according to some manuscripts of Jewish origin .”

            “Now if you subtract 5778 from 6000 you are left with 222 years ! How does that work out ? Well you have to understand the grand secret !”

            Are you saying that this year, 2017, the Messiah returns and the world ends? Yet in your second statement, we are left with 222 years before the world ends?

            Maybe my head is dull this morning or I haven’t had enough coffee, but I would appreciate your clarifying what you were meaning.

    • The 70 weeks is a Bible time prophecy and 70 weeks is 490 days. A day for a year makes that 490 literal years. See Num 14:34 and Eze 4:6. Furthermore the 70 weeks is divided into three sections, 7 weeks, 62 weeks and 1 week. 7 weeks to rebuild Jerusalem and the walls. The wall was completed in 408BC. And then 62 weeks to the appearance of the Messiah. Jesus started his Messiah mission after being baptised in the fall of 27AD after spending 40 days in the wilderness starting the last week of which he was cut off in the middle of the week, his apostles continued his mission in his name for the second half of the week ending in 34AD when Stephen was stoned to death and saw the vision of Jesus standing up depicting the end of probation for the nation of Judah and later the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD. After Stephen’s death Peter had the vision of unclean animals telling him it was time to take the gospel to the Gentiles and Paul’s conversion and him becoming the Apostle to the Gentiles.

  16. First to the Jews: 490 years from 457BC when the third decree was given to rebuild Jerusalem, the temple and the wall to the stoning of Stephen in 34AD.

    And then to the Gentiles: starting with Paul’s conversion shortly after the death of Stephen until 1844 October 22nd. In total 1810 years.

    That is a total of 2300 years.

    • david

      interesting. i never thought of it that way 🙂

    • Let’s start a history examination.
      Ancient non-Biblical historians record that Jesus was condemned to death by Pontius Pilate . Pilate was Roman procurator of Judea during the years 26 AD through 36 AD . This limits our search for a date to those years. In ‘ Setting the Stage ‘ we found that Jesus was born in 3/1 BC. And there are also important Biblical clues: the Book of Luke records that Jesus began His public ministry when He “ was about 30 years old ” , and the Book of John records three annual Passovers during Jesus’ ministry . Taken together, these puzzle pieces add to a crucifixion date in the early 30’s, AD.Many are coming to understand that Jesus correctly celebrated the Passover with His apostles tues evening / wed the fifth day after His triumphant entry into the city.

      • The Gospel of John records 4 Passovers not 3 Jesus being nailed to the cross at the fourth Passover.

        And Jesus was not a baby when the wise men visited. Herod commanded that all boys 2 years and under to be killed according to what he learned from the wise men and his own Bible expert researches. So from that we can assume Jesus was more likely born around 6 or 5BC in the fall making him around 1 to 2 years old.

        We can safely assume Jesus was baptised by John in the fall(probably October) of 27AD. Then 1st Passover in the spring of 28AD, 2nd in the spring of 29AD, 3rd in the spring of 30AD(where he talked about the parable of the fig tree and giving it 1 extra year to bear fruit) and the 4th in the spring of 31AD(where he condemned the fig tree for not having any fruit and it died) where he was arrested and killed. That is 3 and a half years.

        • 1. In the 15th year of Tiberius ( Aug. 28 AD to Aug. 29 AD ) , John the Baptist began his public ministry ( summer of 28AD ). John was six months older than Jesus . John the baptist was beheaded just at the beginning of Jesus’ ministry .
          2. At that time , Jesus was ” about thirty years old ” , which statement would be precisely true if Jesus were born in 1BC . ( Luke 3:23 ) The gospel of John records three Passovers during Jesus ‘ ministry . The first when Jesus was 30½ years old ( John 2:13 ) , a second when He was 31½ years old ( John 6:4 ) and His last when He was arrested and killed . ( John 13:1 ) So , we see that His ministry lasted about 1½ years ( 70 wks ) and He died at the age of 32 years .

  17. Please no more of adding up dates and years and numbers…nobody has got it right yet!….a complete waste of time!

    • glenn

      agreed. playing with numbers does not help much, or guarantee any accuracy

      • Thank you, Glenn. Numbers and assumed timelines make my head hurt.

        “But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.”
        Mark 13:32 (KJV)

        “But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.”
        Matthew 24:36 (KJV)

    • God will not keep hidden the correct time and dates to those who pursue
      the truth ! Those who pursue Him.

      I agree no one has the correct dates so far. Maybe because a lot of the transcripts and dates and times have been removed from history .
      Our own current calendar is all manufactured !

      God says the time is near . . . our own heart and soul tells us .

  18. Note, “The Son of Man” reference is a reference to the First Book of Enoch and the three parables contained therein. There is also The Elected One, Head of Days, and so on. This topic started out all right but sure got diverted in a hurry.

  19. Most people talk about what they “think” the Bible says including you..

    • If I wrote what I knew of the Bible my reply would be hundreds of pages long. It is difficult to write what I know to be true in just a 1000 words or so. I can only scratch the surface. And in any case we should all know it already someone like me shouldn’t have to write what others should know already. How can we eat the meat if we have problems digesting the milk?

    • So Peter you have special insight into Scripture do you?….and obviously do not consider yourself as one of those who only “Think” they know what the bible says….please get off your high horse!

  20. The truth is that if the hebrews and the christians would stop editing and pulling things out of context, then probably many things would start making more sense to both sides. There are 2 Comings, the First and the Second Coming. After that even more division about who thinks they got it right when neither side actually has. As always, the truth is the truth, and sooth is sooth(saying). To each their own. More diversion.

  21. Truth, we know the First Coming has already passed and that the Second Coming has yet to come. But how far away is the Second Coming? Christians cling to the First Coming whilst hebrews look to the Second Coming because things have not gone well for the hebrews after the First Coming. Be careful what you wish for, because what you thought you were wishing for may not be what you deserved and recieved for both christians and hebrews. And seriously, the grandson of YHWH was hung upon a cross and the son has yet to appear (or is he here now). Jeshua / Yeshua / Ieshua is the grandson and the sacrifice. The son (Spirit of God, the Elected One) has yet to have his ttime. First Coming, Baptism with water. Second Coming, baptism with fire as it has been written (then twisted by both christians and hebrews alike).

    • The second coming has already happened at least for the Apostle John who had the Revelation of Jesus.

      • The Miracle of Jesus is that He has given us THIS REVELATION that God is in us by the POWER FROM ON HIGH ! John said , ” as Jesus is , so are we in this world ! “

      • The 2nd coming has already come?…..wow you mean I have missed it?…….David your theology is very Gnostic!

        • What did you think John saw then? He saw these times and the second coming in the vision, the Revelation of Jesus Christ and the events afterwards. The state of the church, its people.

          • It was a vision of a future event, not a past or present event!…The Book of Revelation is a Prophetic Book, dealing with future events .It was written around 94AD and was all about far distant events!

            • Still means he saw it. Therefore for John it has already happened.

              • So obvious you don’t have any Theological credentials. Please don’t think about starting up a Church any time soon!..You would be stoned by the Congregation!

  22. THEREFORE :

    ” believe on the Lord Jesus Christ . . . and you shall be saved
    . . . you and your household ! “

  23. This was meant for Marianne.
    However, meditation and deep prayer that results in a response are the only way of knowing for sure if your interpretation is correct.

  24. This does not make sense in truth. But if you are referring to the obvious truths regarding love and compassion etc., than yes.
    The more one is invested in his own interpretations, the narrower is the path to new revelations.

  25. JESUS “THE WAY” . . . IN HEBREW – DEREKH

    Did you know that Christians have not always been called “ Christians ” ?

    The earliest apprentices of Jesus only became known by this title , later in the first century A.D. , in the large, ethnically diverse, Syrian capital of Antioch ( Acts 11:26 ) . It’s even likely that the term “ Christian ” was used by Antioch’s general population not as a good thing, but as a derogatory name for these followers of Jesus. The title of “ Christians ” was given because this group of Jews and Gentiles were followers of a man named Jesus , who was believed by His followers, to be the Christos , Meshiach meaning “ the anointed one , ” or the Messiah.

    Throughout the pages of the New Testament these earliest of believers also used other names for themselves like “ saints , ” “ brothers, ” and “ disciples , ” but what THE FIRST FOLLOWERS OF JESUS wanted to be known as, was The ‘ the Way’ meant so much more than just a name !

    The earliest self-identification they had of ‘ The Way’ referred to What and Who they were following. They described something so dynamic, so very PERSONAL, so very LIFE CHANGING, that it was to them the ultimate LIFE DETERMINING EVENT !

    When explaining themselves they revealed an extreme ignition to their heart and soul, an awakening, that definitely shook each one of them to their very core ! The experience occurred by being followers of God’s “ the Way ” or in Hebrew ‘ derekh ’ ( Acts 9:2; 11:26 ) . This description was so world significant . . . yet over time has sadly become hidden !

    In describing what we call “ Believers,” these first followers of Jesus made a radical claim about the Person and Work of Jesus, so remarkable and worthy of attention . . . Jesus was not just a man . . . JESUS IS ETERNITY itself, THE FINAL CULMINATION OF ALL THINGS WITH GOD !
    THE SUMMATION OF ALL THINGS IN HOLINESS AND RIGHTEOUSNESS ! GOD’S FULLNESS TO THE HIGHEST MEASURE AND EXTREME ! GOD’S REST ! GOD’S COMPLETED WORK, FINAL PERFECTION !

    INTERESTINGLY Torah was ‘The Way’ DEREKH

    The Hebrew people ( and their own Scriptures ) have employed the word “ Torah ” to describe not only the first five books of the Old Testament ( Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy ), but also the entire collection of 39 books which make up the Old Testament. And while English translators often bring the Hebrew word “Torah” over into English Bibles as “ decrees, ” “ judgments, ” “ commands, ” or simply “ law, ” there’s a much more holistic understanding of Torah. The Torah is ‘ derekh ’, God’s self-revelation given to humanity. And it conveys much more than just true principles and propositions ( though it does contain that too ) it is all about God Himself and all things entering God’s Rest – His perimeters of safety, protection, sanctuary, refuge and tabernacle with us . . . a blueprint and complete measure of all of God with us, in complete perfection.

    Torah has been classically understood by the Hebrew people as laying out the way ‘ derekh ’ in which Israel might THRIVE – experience true achievement and flourish. The book of Proverbs displays a constant refrain to the recipient ( “my son” ) to embrace the particular path of wisdom ( the way ) being passed down in order that he might experience full life accomplishment ( human fulfillment , to thrive ). So, Torah, or God’s Word, comes to be viewed as the singular way in which Israel was to live in order for humans to excel by experiencing God Himself. “ So,” you can see, “why early believers chose the name “the Way” ‘ derekh ’ for themselves ”, ( something marvelous happened to them – a wonderful Power from On High and Oneness with God ) !

    Jesus is ‘The Way’, BY REVELATION – means we ‘see’ and we ‘know’ God as our very existence, our life !

    Think about how radical to the Jewish mind it was when Jesus of Nazareth stated, “I am the Way and the Truth and the Life.” ” No one comes to the Father except through Me.” ” If you really know Me, you will know My Father as well. From now on, you do know Him and have seen Him, ” BY REVELATION ( John 14:6-7 ) . Jesus was putting Himself not only on the same level as Torah, but as the surpassing fulfillment of Torah ( we know as the Law ! ) .

    JESUS asserted that, only as one accessed God the Father through Himself, the Person of Jesus, that, that one, could expect to have an intimate close relationship with the Father ( ABBA, ABI ). He daringly maintained that our human situation would be completely transformed and marvelously fulfilled. . . thrive, entertaining true enlightenment, but amazingly . . . only be realized by coming in contact with Him,
    Jesus, ‘THE WAY, THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE ! ‘

    You see, this is one primary way in which Jesus differentiates Himself from other human religious leaders / thinkers ( Krishna, Buddha, Muhammad, Moses, etc. ). Such religious icons claim to be “ way-show-ers ” or “ signposts.” That is, they point away from themselves and to the end , or goal of human highest life attainment. But none claims to actually be “ the way ”, in and of Himself.

    [ Jesus ] was not just another signpost, but the destination to which the signposts had led.” So, in the midst of the common “ way-show-er ” model of religious leading, Jesus comes along and boasts quite dramatically that, ( 1 ) all human sins are, at their root, a sin against Himself ( Mk 2:1-12; Lk 7:36-50 ), THEY ARE UNABLE [ verbs raʿah (“to see”), and yadaʿ (“to know”) ] , and that ( 2 ) He will return at the end of time to be the final judge of all human beings, and that the nature of their judgment will be dependent on how people have responded to Himself ( John 5:22, 28, 29; Mathew 25:31-46 ) [ verbs raʿah (“to see”), and yadaʿ (“to know”) ] BY REVELATION – means we ‘see’ and we ‘know’ God as our very existence, our life !

    HE IS OUR ETERNITY !

    It can’t easily be doubted then that Jesus described Himself as ‘the Way’ BY REVELATION of God to man and therefore, the WAY TO EVERLASTING LIFE , by seeing, by knowing, it is Him !

    “ God so Loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever would believe, would have Everlasting Life ” ( John 3:16 )

    Would have Jesus, all that God is.

    Jesus’ Apprentices as Followers of ‘The Way’

    These first Jewish “ Believers ” then, understood Jesus to be equal with, even superior to, in purpose,to Torah—God’s self-revelation to humanity.

    This is what prompts Jesus’ closest follower, John, in his Gospel to write, “In the beginning was the Word [ logos ], and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. . . .The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us.” (John 1:1, 14).

    Jesus is the divine logos, Word, the true Torah, Who makes God the Father BY REVELATION known not just in His words or declarations, but in His very personal presence. He is “ the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His being . . . His Fullness ” ( Heb 1:3 ), only because “ God was pleased to have all His Fullness to dwell in Him [ Jesus, so we can see and know God ], and through Him to reconcile to Himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through His blood, shed on the cross ” ( Col 1:19, 20 ) .

    THE SACRIFICE WAS EXACTLY GIVING OF GREAT VALUE. LIFE ITSELF, TO REDEEM LIFE. Jesus [ Yeshua ] means ‘ God’s Salvation ’ BY REVELATION the HIGHEST VALUE AND FULLNESS OF GOD – THE REDEMPTION FOR ALL CREATION !

    Jesus said , ( Matthew 5:17,18 ) 17 “ Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets ; I have come not to abolish but to fulfill . 18 For truly I tell you , and if heaven and earth could pass away, not one letter,not one stroke of a letter , will pass from the law until all is accomplished . ”

    Jesus is TESHUVAH, the ( reconciliation ) returning of all things to God’s PERFECTION .

    The theme of Hebrew High Holidays was TESHUVAH , a word often translated as “ repentance,” though it’s more accurately understood as turning back (shuv ) to God. In modern Hebrew TESHUVAH- means an “answer” to a shelah, or a question. God’s Love for us is the question, and our teshuvah -our turning back to God, our turning of our heart toward Him – is the answer !

    WE SEE YOU . . .WE KNOW YOU !
    WE KNOW WHO WE ARE – WE ARE GOD’S !

    TESHUVAH – is THE CULMINATION of God’s Perfect Plan of Redemption ! To see God, know God and be with God, by God, forever.

  26. Firstly, on a diversionary note, I am the one referred to as Na’ar (Youth, Kiddo) and I refer to the Creator (God) as Shaddai (Almighty). With that being said, how do I need an interceder on my behalf when me and the Creator appear to be best buds already? Just askin’. I don’t have belief, I know. I know what God (the Creator) actually looks like and he knows me and who I am. I’m not Christian, Muslim, Hebrew (Israelite or Jew from Judah), nor Zen Buddhist, Hindu, Daoist, Taoist, etc. etc. Possibly Gentile I guess. I’m the Holy Scribe in the flesh again. And I don’t have nor want any special powers or whatever. I like trying to live as normal a life as possible. Now back to possibly a really cool topic…

    I’m back to agreeing with Marianne now, sigh…

    Peeps, we’re trying to focus in on prophesy and the Messiah. It’s a pretty cool idea but this thread has seemed to go all over the place.

    Focus, what has been written about the Messiah.

    The First Coming.

    The Second Coming.

    After the thousand years of peace a great tormenter is unleashed but the Second Coming and the thousand years of peace has yet to occur as we know.

    Was the Messiah ACTUALLY in the First Coming or is the Messiah in the Second Coming?

    Are there some mistranslations or possibly some misinterpretations as far as the Messiah in the Bible and possibly other sources?

    Focus.

  27. Sorry, forgot, but is Jesus actually the Messiah or is it someone else possibly? Hence the topic (read way up above).

  28. Some readers may be interested in a book. The Second Coming of Christ, by Paramahansa Yogananda.
    Two volumes on the New Testament.

  29. Earlier in the month, Rabbi MENACHEM Robinson said he had met with the “Messiah” in ISRAEL and soon would be revealed to the world. He posted this on Facebook and breaking Israel news. According to 2thes2:3,the day of Christ will not come except the son of perdition/Antichrist be revealed ,which means after he is revealed, the rapture occurs.
    Watch Israel for their” Messiah” revelation. Watch, I say Watch!!!!!!!!!!

  30. This “story” has been repeated many times throughout history.
    Mental hospitals also have many who proclaim to be Jesus or the chosen one.
    I have a friend of many years who believes to varying degrees that he is Jesus. Luckily he is a very passive and kind fellow.
    On one level this is very understandable. God in his love for us will reveal himself in profound ways to sincere seekers.
    The problem lies in the ego’s interpretation of the experience.
    People in any particular faith may assume that this experience means that everything they believe at the time must be true, whereas only the experience may be true.
    On the positive side(or to some positive)this kind of experience should tell us that God has no favorites.
    We have a lot to learn and God will give us all the time we need…but that is another story.

  31. Many times people either lump together the prophesies and/or pull statements (verses) out of context. The numbers to the verses were originally added to aid in translation of the texts and nothing more. Many millions of words is quite cumbersome to deal with. And many times, people tend to concentrate more on the numbers and separations between the numbers than on what is written between the numbers and around those numbers.

    Also note, the english Bible has been rewritten from the original King James Version. The new versions (New King James, New Standard, New International Version) are NOT accurate to the original translations or texts. Please be aware of this during studies.

    If I remember the prophesies correctly, the old covenant has been broken. There is a period between the old covenant with the hebrews (ended on the First Coming) and a new covenant with the Gentiles (started with the Second Coming). A lot of nonsense happens between the First and Second Coming with many false prophets, false churches, false religions, and so forth and so on as mentioned in prophesy. It was stated that Almighty would keep his covenant with the Hebrews however, the hebrews would break the covenant with Almighty and be scattered for about 1900 or so years.

    History can repeat itself as we know so are there some similarities between the First Coming and the Second Coming or are both events completely different?

    First Coming – the grandson (Ieshua, Sower of Seeds) and the Gatekeeper (Simon called Peter). John the Baptist and baptism with water.

    Second Coming – the son (Emanuelle, Reaper of the Harvest) and the Holy Scribe (Enoch, Metatron, Thee Ace Man). Baptism with fire has not yet ocurred nor has the thousand years of peace nor have the ‘wicked’ been cast out into the Abyss and a gate placed over the top and locked for a thousand years.

    Third Coming is after the thousand years of peace and the gate over the Abyss is reopened for a short time. There does not appear to be any kind of redeemer or saviour or messiah type during or after the Third Coming that has been written about.

    The Old Testament was written before the First and the Second Coming. The New Testament was written primarily after the First Coming.

    And, as always, there is more…

  32. For the most part, stories contained in the Bible were written by others who collected stories from people around others mentioned in the Bible. An exception appears to be in the first five books of the Bible which are accredited to Moses himself. There were other books and stories collected that many have discounted or have become ‘unacceptible’ to what religions wish to teach (not what may be really there). It was noted that during Moses’ time there was a Book of Noah that pieces have been found, but a full version has yet to be discovered. Also, the First Book of Enoch (great grandfather of Noah) is another example of a text that was around but not accepted because it has been noted that the translations from one era to another seem to taint the writing. The Gospel of Thomas is a book that was taken and burned because a church felt that it was blasphemy and that Jesus could not have done such things despite Jesus’ brother James stating that yes, those things had happened when Jesus was younger. So much to think about… What is deemed official is not all that exists. Also note, many thoughts contained in the Bible are not from the thinkers themselves but are usually a collection of what others noted and wrote down. Though something may be official it does not necessarily mean that it is the absolute truth same as what may be deemed unofficial may not necessarily lack in truth either.

    With that being said, yes, please file the Third Book of Enoch in the fiction folder. It is not true and those events noted by Rabbi Ishmael, blessed be he, did not occur. The Second Book of Enoch is also suspect. The Book of Thomas does appear to be genuine and put that in nonfiction. Also, the First and Second Books of Adam and Eve are recommended but remember that stories are stories. Ancient times did not mark its stories as fiction / nonfiction, be it as it may. And also, Almighty did appear in the Holy of Holies unto Aaron and latter priests / rabbis. All one would have to do was ask and information direct from the source could be obtained. Did the priests / rabbis of Israel actually do this though? Did some priests / priests just make things up without asking? Everyone is different so always try to consider the source.

    The first Prophet of Almighty does appear to be Enoch (great grandfather of Noah). Anyone who has read the First Book of Enoch (which is probably the only true book of Enoch) will note that references in future prophesies and such do seem to draw on this book (including Jesus’ claim of “The Son of Man” being a direct reference to the Book of Enoch). Note, however, that an original manuscript has yet to be discovered in whole but fragments dating to around 800 BC of the Book of Enoch have been found. The Aramaic / Hebrew fragments appear to contain more writings than the latter Ethiopic translation has.

    Always remember, what is is. What has been has been. And what is to be is to be. Be that as it may. The truth will always be the truth and what is to be is to be. Amen.

    • the books of the prophets were written by the prophets, or their scribes

      psalms written by david, unless noted otherwise

      first book of enoch is credible, I have read it

      gospel of thomas is heresy, as it was written 200 years after thomas died, and not during his lifetime. thomas died in india as a martyr

  33. And sorry I keep forgetting.

    Jerusalem is put asunder, Mecca is put asunder, Medina asunder, Vatican (Rome) asunder. And a New Jerusalem established with the new covenant with the Gentiles during the Second Coming. New York USA but not sure where yet. Pretty sure it is not New York City though, but you never know until it happens.

  34. David, you should listen to Glenn. He can see more clearly from “his” high horse.

  35. Yeshua’s (Jesus) birth place and approximate time of birth is identified in the Tanach (“Old Testament”) and we know from the Writings of the Apostles He is returning soon. There are also scriptures in the “OT” that helps us ascertain when and how His return will be. For example a rabbi in the 12th century used the scriptural Jubilee calculations to predict Jerusalem would be back on Jewish hands in 1967. If we use that same calculation this year, 2017 which is about to start Wed 29th (if we fallow Torah and not man’s calendar), is the start of the Jubilee of Jubilees, a mega Jubilee. I expect to see big things happening this year concerning Israel, specially during the fall feasts of Yahveh starting with Yom Teruah (“Rosh Hashannah”). Will this be the year Messiah Yeshua returns with His angels to gather the scatter back UP to Jerusalem? We shall see.

    According to Mat 13 His angels will FIRST snatch up all the tares pretending to be wheat and burn them all, then the dead in Messiah and the wheat are gathered into His barn to be threshed so as to separate the grain from the shaft. We know the enemy has planted his tare seeds among the wheat from the start of this creation (Genesis, Mat 24) . We also know that if we follow the corrected calculation we are already into the 6th millennium thus this is the time, and the season is really upon us.

    Better to get aligned to Yahveh’s Torah the way Yeshua showed us submitting ourselves to The Way and stop following man made religions. Restoration of all things is about to start so those who have entered into covenant with Yeshua accepting Him and His sacrifice as Second Adam and His way of life thus really following Him (as in taking our staff and following Him) will be changed back (i John 3:2) into the way Adam was BEFORE the fall. Father has not been defeated nor mocked by the adversary as indeed already it is finished as Yeshua declared. His plan goes on undeterred. Yeshua’s sacrifice was not affected by our temporary time and space continuum (for He and the Father are outside time and space altogether) and what He accomplished as Son of Man and Second Adam 2000 years ago is as if He had done it right after Adam chose the wrong path in the garden. Thus the Tree of life comes full circle; what was even before the foundation of this earth is as if it is now, as if it has always been. Shalom

    • Shoshana – I am not versed at all in the Jewish perspective and appreciate, when those who really understand the Jewish perspective (calendar, Bible verses, etc.) can lay out, clearly, that perspective, especially to those of us who have no understanding. Thank you for your comments.

  36. After thinking a bit I happened to notice something on this.

    The First Coming was Ieshua (6 BC – 35 AD) which he was 40 years old when crucified and it appears that there are a LOT of 40s such as 40 days and 40 nights, 40 years in the wilderness and such.

    The Second Coming appears to possibly be tied with the number 60 as in 1947 + 60 = 2007. 60 years after Israel fell, Judaea fell. And such. It does state however that in the Second Coming Emanuelle (2007 – 2127) lives to be 120 years.

    Not sure if it’s a pattern between First Coming to Second Coming or just one of those things.

  37. Glenn, your comment to Ace and Marianne’s follow up smiley face will give people pause as to your actual wisdom.
    But, hope springs eternal.

  38. Thank you for your clarification. It is important to hear everyone’s point of view without giving what may be easily interpreted as a condescending comment.
    This does not mean we can’t disagree on any given points.
    The numbers game does seem endless at the moment and could use a fresh look or approach.
    There are accounts that Francis of Assisi and others witnessed Jesus in spirit and in the flesh since the disciples did. Perhaps this is the true second coming that we should all strive for.

    • peter

      what can be interesting here is opposite views can both be true, which is why allow so much discussion.

      also, when people, who remain polite, get frustrated with each other, some of their comments are kind of cute….they eventually work things out.

      numbers drive me crazy….although i see them as a POSSIBLE hint, I just leave everything to god

    • Hi Peter, You really need to read what the Bible says about the second coming of Jesus. It is not some isolated event viewed by a select few, but it will be a worldwide phenomena, viewed by the whole world!…Jesus will NOT return with a whimper, but with a bang, that will be loud and clear, and as bright as the lightning for all to see.I hope you are prepared?

  39. True.

  40. Yup, the truth was, is, and always will be the truth. Opinions are opinions and until something actually happens, you just wait and see. But until it actually happens or doesn’t happen, you don’t know for sure. Well, kinda anyway. Right, wrong, no big deal. It’s nice to discuss and learn. You never know until you do. Just because something is or isn’t popular doesn’t mean that it is true or not. Things are as they are. It’s nice to share thoughts and ideas.

    Note, I’m the actual one with the double-nerved upper left bicuspid that apparently Edgar Cayce talked to during most of his readings. The thing is that Edgar died in 1945 and I wasn’t born until 1964. Things happen. I think Edgar said he saw me on the seventh or eighth level surrounded by a bunch of floating books (should have been 366 books, but who knows).

    • And really, if everyone thought the same thing, then what would be the point of having a discussion. It’s always nice to share ideas with others. Everyone’s different. Be kinda boring with the same story over and over again.

    • ace

      so you are a supernatural being?

      • Nope, thanks for asking but I’m not supernatural. No ‘super powers’ that I know of either.

        I’m pretty sure it is intentional as well. Lucifer (the Fallen Star), was the original of creation and seen as the most beautiful of creation as well. Then Lucifer opened his mouth and it seems like Lucifer has never shut his mouth since then. As Lucifer was first of creation, he was also made head angel as well. But after opening his mouth once too often, the head angel position was taken away from Lucifer and another put in his place. The Holy Scribe was supposedly given this position when Lucifer was removed. Michael standing on the right and Gabriel standing on the left, but also seated on the left was the Holy Scribe (Enoch / Metatron).

        I heard about the tooth story from Sir Nicholas Boehr (Albert Einstein’s last ‘assistant’) around April / May 1979. Sir Nicholas knew about the Edgar Cayce prophecies. In one of Cayce’s readings, Cayce stated that the person that was giving Edgar these readings had a distinguishing feature that no one else has had, has, or will have and that is the double-nerved upper left bicuspid. Like said, Cayce died in 1945 and I wasn’t born until 1964.

        It was found in 1976 that I had this tooth but also kept secret because of the prophecy going 2 ways. The way believed is that world peace comes for 1000 years, however, another part also stated that if the person with this tooth did not do what was needed then there would be a 1000 years of darkness.

        If you look into the New Testament, it states that Simon called Peter was given the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven, but in the Old Testament it was stated that the founding of God’s Church will be with the Keeper of the Book of Life. Then Saul of Tarsus proceeds to make some false assumptions. I’m thinking these passages have possibly been taken out of the rewrites (new this, new that, NIV, NKJV…), but maybe not. I remember that Saul tried to say that the keys must be the Book of Life or something of that nature, which is not true.

        Also, something to note, I know people don’t want to hear it, but honestly Jesus is not the only begotten Son of God. Jesus even stated that the name of the Son of God will become Emanuelle to state that God is with Him and that the Son of God speaks in all languages. If you read the passages correctly, Jesus states that his father is the Son of God, Emanuelle. The problem also is that the original language that the New Testament Scriptures were written in does not have a word for ‘grandfather’. A grandfather is a father as well as a great grandfather is a father and so on. Very confusing in modern times. Back in Jesus’ times, it was rare to have a living grandfather as many lived to be only about 35 to 40 years old.

        • And I forgot again, but what fun would life be if everyone had the same story over and over again. But also try to think from Almighty’s perspective of “it would be a lonely existence with just yourself throughout eternity, wouldn’t it?” Creation was never about perfection, but about having others around to share things with. And that first other was Lucifer (Satan) and then fortunately, others followed… Everyone has their own story including Almighty Himself. Kinda cool how it all works.

          • I really hope that Ace Downing is not a Biblical Teacher…his Theology is off the planet and within the realms of heresy! Please think about changing your medication asap for all our sakes!

            • Actually, think about it for a minute. Moses didn’t part the waters, Elijah, Joshua, and so on. No ‘prophet’ has ever had any super powers or such (Nostradamus, Edgar Cayce somewhat included but they were never asked to be ‘plague bringers’ or such). The prophet just says stuff and then after others don’t listen (which always seems to be the case), then someone else steps in and stuff happens (like frog plagues, earthquakes, waters unparting, etc.). Prophets are just messengers for someone else is all. A BIG someone else, but someone else nonetheless.

              Lol, and no medications.

              As far as heresy, um, the Bible says there are only 12 apostles / disciples, so keep thinking a poor excuse for a snake charmer’s words are above those of the Almighty and see what happens. The Roman Catholic Church with all its pagan customs and such (naming Saints, VICARIVS FILII DEI, rewriting the Holy Scriptures to suit their whims, etc. etc) is what happened. I keep wondering who is more untrustworthy, Saul of Tarsus or Lucifer (the Fallen Star)? I’m still stickin’ with Lucifer but not by much. OK, the world is flat, the Sun revolves around the Earth, etc. Please don’t boil me in oil or burn me at the stake again? Are you happy yet or are your meds wearing off? Just askin’. Lol. I’m fine and you?

              I just am what I am is all. Same as everyone else.

  41. I think Ace is no supernatural being, but somebody who takes an excess of some illegal drugs?…

    • And thanks for your concern Glenn. I’m fine, and you? I’m not a christian, muslim, hebrew, hindu, buddhist, or whatever. I’m not allowed. I’m just me. Jst as each person is themselves. No hard feelings I hope.

      My web page for “The Meaning of Life” which is a question and answer page that is quite eye opening (and recommended to those 16 and older because of mild language and sexual references that ‘kids’ just would not understand) is here http://www.theeaceman.com/mol.html

      Note also, I wrote an autobiography in 2011 and I didn’t know at the time about the rest of the stuff (my having a large aura was the clincher).

      I’m not really selling the book but I have everything added in in a revised text that I won’t publish but will provide a link to (original book text in black, revised text in blue on the page). http://www.theeaceman.com/thefullbook.html

      • Ash, I didn’t think for one minute that you were a believer in Jesus, or had any faith in Him at all.You constantly speak in the flesh, and have no spiritual aspect of your thought processes at all!.Anybody with the slightest Biblical knowledge will know that what you write is just empty words, that are coloured by your own ego, and self -centred philosophies!. For me you are just another person rambling on about things they no nothing about, and are just wasting people’s time doing so!.You end one of your posts by saying I am just what I am…I have a feeling that should really be….”You is what you is!”

        • And as figured Glenn, you are a christian who believes they know it all. Like stated Glenn, I’m not on any medication, but I’m also not on any ego trip like you appear to be. Read above (your own posts Glenn). Lol, and ‘know’ not ‘no’ OK? Ash, double lol? We all make mistakes. Some more than others apparently. In all honesty, I came around Heaven Awaits because I saw a good thing here. That good thing was christians and hebrews alike working to solve problems. My guess from your posting style, Glenn, that the hebrews pick on you a bit about your lack of knowledge. They should. And I am a meek is about the best way to put it to you Glenn. How’s YOUR medications doing Glenn? Just askin’ (hint I’m half white, and half american savage if you’re wonderin’)

          • Ooops, and no smokeum peace pipe. Makeum war not love with Glenn LOL. Truthfully, no hard feelings on my part Glenn but apparently as a christian, Glenn, you have not yet learned what “do unto others” truly means. Again, please read your own posts above Glenn and hopefully learn from your mistakes.

            Sheepers, this started as a cool topic about identifying the Messiah and has anyone figured out how to identify him or possibly multiple hims yet?

            • And, since you are so knowledgeable Glenn, please, by all means, point out to me and everyone else where it says there were to be 13 apostles (and not 12) in the Holy Scriptures by anyone except Saul of Tarsus? Amen.

              • There were 13 Apostles.One committed suicide, (Judas) and then another took his place as chosen by lot….Barnabas…It’s all there is the Bible if you care to take the time!

                • Umm, hmmmm. Wasn’t it Matthias?
                  Acts 1:21-26
                  It’s all there, if you care.

                  What am I missing?

                  • Sorry Denise, yes it was…Barnabas was the one who didn’t get chosen. Thanks for correcting my error!:)

            • ace

              my answer to you is in the post itself

              • Yes, thanks Marianne. First to the Jew, then to the Gentile. Hopefully someday soon the Meek inherit the Earth and both Jews and Gentiles get what’s left over. Or something like that. But who are the Meek and how do I know a Meek if I find one? A Meek is a person that regardless of what others do, a Meek is one who would not do something to someone else if they would not like it if it was done to them. Hopefully we can all learn from our mistakes so as not to repeat the past over and over again and move forward. But also, the Meek have definitely not inherited the Earth yet, but hopefully someday soon after people learn to think more properly (better).

                • A meek?:)….The original meaning of the word means…”Strength of Character”…today it has been watered down a lot!…It has been given the limp wrist workover!…….

  42. Yes Glenn, and as far as ‘strength of character’ –

    So finally, the meek, who are the ones who realize that despite what others do they should not do things to others that they would not like if it was done to them, shall inherit the Earth and the righteous, who realize that despite what others do they should not do things to others that they would not like if it was done to them, shall reside in Heaven, and to the jews, christians, muslims, hindus, buddhists, etc., they shall have what’s left over.

    As far as all this prophesy and such, what is is. What is made up is made up. What is written, whether it is or is made up, is written.

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