Mark of the beast – literal or symbolic?
Currently, we have a barcode system which some say already is the mark of the beast. Further checking reveals no 666 currently in a barcode. But could this barcode system pave the way for a more elaborate one, which does mark people for worship of the Beast?
By Olaf Vennik
Many of the visions John were given are Symbolic, but we also have factual references, such as those who are faithful to their allegiance to God, are also beheaded in the time of tribulation :
Rev.20:4. And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received [his] mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
We see these have not received this “mark,” so this mark must have to be factual.
Since the 1980s we have grown to accept the fact that all PRODUCTS are assigned a BAR CODE. This code comes in several formats.
1234//1234 & 12345//12345 & 1//123456//123456
The last example is the most common, with the FIRST digit denoting the World Trade Center digit assigned to that product.
Look in your grocery shelves, you will find that most items which are manufactured in the USA have a ZERO (0) as the FIRST digit,
eg. (0)//123456//123456 – whereas China, Australia, Malaysia, New Zealand have nine (9) as first digit –
eg (9)//123456//123456 …You can see that (0) to (9) is 10.
The World Trade Organization has the World divided into 10 regions of trade.
Each region has its TRADE Center, just like the one that was demolished on 9/11/2001.
The World Trade ORGANIZATION in Geneva, took over the GATT (General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade) in December 1993.
In my country, they place a sub-cutaneous microchip in animals, why wouldn’t they be able to do that to human beings?
As we are not products from the assembly line, we would need to have a different code number than the Product Code of (1)/6/6 – but instead have a 6/6/6 code [ie. 123456/123456/123456]
I do not dismiss the fact that when things are said three times, that it is for emphasis, but we must not get things mixed up when it is detrimental to our eternal future, if we do not RECOGNIZE an important event that will exclude us from heaven if we accept that “mark.”
Does this mean we have already accepted the mark, if we are using anything with a bar code on it?
The criteria for GETTING that mark is the “Worshiping” aspect.
Rev.20:4. And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and [I saw] the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not WORSHIPED the beast, neither his image, neither had RECEIVED [his] mark upon THEIR FOREHEADS, or in THEIR HANDS; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev.14:11. And the smoke of their torment ascends up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who WORSHIP the beast and his image, and whosoever RECEIVETH the mark of his name.
Rev.13:15. And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not WORSHIP the image of the beast should be killed.
Rev.13:4. And they worshipped the DRAGON which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the BEAST, saying, Who [is] like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
…So you see, it is the WORSHIPING aspect that this WHOLE rebellion on the planet is all about.
SATAN (Dragon) wants to be GOD.
I can quote the passages, but that will be unnecessary to prove.
It was not so much the disobedience to God’s order, but it was the BELIEVING of Satan’s word as AUTHORITY over that of our Creator.
In so doing, EVE chose SATAN as her FATHER and god.
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*** Marianne’s note-
We are NOT saying that the current bar code system is the mark of the beast.
But ..that the current bar code system is there, as a foundation for future development into something more elaborate.
Will this development take place?
Will people accept a special bar code, to pledge their allegiance and worship to the beast?
What do you think the mark of the Beast is?
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See also
The Number 666 according to Muslims
https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/the-number-666-according-to-muslims/#comments
–References:
Anatomy of a current barcode that does NOT have the 666:
http://www.virtualsalt.com/barcode.htm
More about how bar codes work at this time:
http://www.av1611.org/666/barcode.html
Heaven Awaits 
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Mark of the beast – literal or symbolic? « Heaven Awaits said this on June 13, 2009 at 1:19 am
Very interesting Marianne. I believe the mark is for a reason. On earth we mark cattle and tag animals that are our property. So I believe, this is what it means. Notice the following scriptures:
“And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand” Rev. 14:9
” and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.” Rev. 14:11
” And the first went, and pour out his vial upon the earth; and there fell noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.” Rev. 16:2
” And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought mircules before him,with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image” Rev. 19:20
” . . . which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his . . .” Rev. 20:4
The mark only appears on people who worship the beast. Notice satan wants worship. Jesus said:
Matthew 25:31 When the Son of Man comes in his glory and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his throne of glory; 32 and all the nations will be gathered before him and he will separate them from one another, just as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, 33 and he will put the sheep on his right hand and the goats on his left.
I look forward to reading others responses.
Hi Rev Williams
I think the “mark” will be a combination of both a physical mark, like a chip, tatoo, or stamp, or something visible, and spiritual commitment.
It would have to have both of these elements to be valid.
A barcode alone would mean nothing.
Just like cattle being forced to take a mark does not mean they worship their cattlemen.
Hi Rev,
I know this was posted last year, but I thought I would go through many of the posts, as I have not read all of them. In regards to when you said in the very first post:
“The mark only appears on people who worship the beast.”
By saying “Appears,” are you speaking spiritually appearing on people who worship the beast? The word that is used to describe the way in which they obtain the mark is “Received,” which is the Greek word “Lambano,” which means:
“to take with the hand, lay hold of, any person or thing in order to use it.”
This word is used in most of the verses that refer to those excepting the mark. Their “receiving” the mark is the worship of the beast, one form of worship anyway. Those who receive the mark will do so wilfully and not by physical force. The word “Forced” in the following verse:
“He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead.”
I believe is not by physical force, but by making cash, checks, credit and debiting obsolete, so that his mark remains the only way to perform any kind of financial transaction, ergo, he forces them to receive his mark by removing everythign else.
Also, in regards to the sheep and the goats the church does not take part in this separation, that is, the church is not in view here. These are those people, righteous and wicked who will have made it through the tribulation period and will be separated when Christ returns to the earth to set up his millennial kingdom.
Hi Marianne,
I have to object. If you study the guard bars, you will find that they are the 6s and because there are three of them, they are the 666 in the barcode.
What a bunch of rubbish, just because people buy stuff ,food and such, we worship the “beast” now?. everybody and their Mother are trying to figure out what the mark of the beast is,, barcodes are to keep up with supply and demand and I think to know what each and everyone is buying,, some think that our ssn is the mark, and some think that our drivers licsense is it…
I agree. The mark of the beast will be something personal.
I guess it will be something like a transponder which is already used in animals. But the icing on the cake will be the worship of the image.
Hi Deb,
Like I said above, I do not think a barcode alone will do it. The current barcode system is not complex enough. It would have to be modified to mark humans. So we are safe buying our food.
And just like Rev Williams said, even cattle get marked against their will.
And we know cattle do not worship the cattlemen for this.
Anyone can be marked against their will too.
The key is accepting the worship that comes with the mark.
Hello people! First of all, I will explain to you how he, the false prophet is going to “Force” the world to receive this mark, which is a literal mark that will go under the skin of the right hand or the forhead, just as God’s word says. The debit card is the technology for the mark, in that, you make a purchase, swipe your card and the amount is automatically deducted from your bank account. This is how the mark will work. In fact, the numbers 666 are the prefix for all bank codes. The way in which he will “force” will be because as the mark continues to progress, the world will be using cash, checks, credit and debit cards, etc, just as they do now, when at some some point in time, around the middle of that seven year period, the other methods for buying and selling will be made “obsolete” so that the only method for buying and selling will be to receive the mark, otherwise, just as God’s word says, no one will be able to buy and sell without it. So, he does it by removing the other methods of purchasing. Only those people whose names have not been written in the book of life from before the world began will receive this mark or worship his image. The mark is NOT observing the sabbath on Sunday, nor should it be labeled under sybolic, poetic or hyperbole. It is a literal mark! The fact that we have the technology and are testing this should raise biblical red flags! It is amazing to me that we have this technology and are testing it and yet we still have people saying that the mark is something else other than literal when it is right here in front of our faces exactly as the word of God describes it. John does not have anything to compare to this device that he is seeing being put under the skin and so he uses the only thing he can compare it to and that is a mark or tattoo. He certainly can’t say, “and he foreced everyone to receive a computer chip under his skin for the purpose of buying and selling to be used via a computer system.”
As you know, there are two camps here on the mark of the beast – Sabbath vs. Barcode. I believe that the mark is the breaking of the 4th commandment – the sabbath day and here is why:
Rev. 14 9-12
A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, 10he, too, will drink of the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name.” 12This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God’s commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.
I believe it is obvious that the saints that avoid the mark do so by keeping the commandments.
I believe God is very concerned with his people keeping his (original) commandments and is not happy with the pagan Romans forcing the early Christians to move it to their day of Sun worship. This paganism among 50 others is what the bible refers to as “Mystery Babylon” and it is what Christ will destroy when he returns and restores his Apostolic church.
Now, my question is, why do you believe that God will be so concerned with a new banking method that is not much different from the cards we already use? Satan wants your worship, not your money and he is happy to just take away the proper worship of God.
I can easily relate worship to the sabbath. How do you relate Satan worship to buying a hot dog?
The mark is religious, not secular or commercial. The beast is a religious system and the Antichrist is a religious leader, not a political leader. It’s all about faith, not money.
I have another question for all you chipsters out there:
If the president of the US requires such a chip implant and there is no New World Order yet and the Antichrist has yet to appear with a 7-year peace plan for Israel etc., and it is not done under threat of death, will you accept it or not?
I will! I hope it happens so all you chip theorists out there will have to start scrambling for a new explanation for the mark, and maybe you will finally be led to the truth!!
Hello! First of all, the issue as to whether or not it is a literal mark or the
sabbath has already been answered, as the prototype for this mark has is and has
been in progress and therefore, the argument for the sabbath is a moot point.
The very fact that we have come to the technology of something that was
prophecied 1900 years would be one heck of a coincidence. Second, we are not
under the ten commandments or the law. For those who are in Christ are led by
the spirit of God. Christ was the end of the law and it was nailed to the cross
because Jesus fulfilled it on our behalf. Paul makes it clear that the law could
not save anyone, but only reinforced our sinful nature. I’ll repeat what Paul
said, if you are going to keep the law, then you are subject to the whole law
and if you break it at one point, you have broken the whole law and that you and
I have already broken it. In regards to keeping God’s commandments, that would
be to worship God and Him only shall you serve. By receiving the mark that will
allow one to buy or sell and the fact that it is stated that it is the beasts
mark, by receiving it you will be aligning yourself with him and thereby
worshiping the beast and bringing the wrath of God and the lake of fire. And
speaking of the debit card, you are correct! This is the techology that will be
used for the coming mark. The idea will be the same as it is now, make a
purchase, scan your personal mark, which then deducts the total from your bank
account. In regards to the beast (false christ) you are half right, he will be
both political and religious, as he will be the last day world ruler. The false
prophet will be the head of the false religious system and also the false
christ’s right hand man. Therefore, whoever follows after this false prophet and
his false religious system will be in danger of damnation because the false
prophet will be doing counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders for the purpose of
giving credibility to the false christ who will be proclaiming himself to be God
and the people will be deceived by those miracles. Further more, the burden of
proof is on you and those who believe the same, because the word of God says
written in black and white, that the mark will go on the right hand or forehead
and no one will be able to buy or sell without it. So, you in order for you to
believe that the mark is the observance of the sabbath on Sunday, you have to
ignore what is literally said and override God’s word with your method of
interpretation, trusting in that instead. The fact that there is already a
prototype for a chip to go under the skin for making purchases should be enough
proof for anyone. This mark will not become manditory until that man of
lawlessness comes, where at the middle of the seven year covenant, he sets up
that abomination. The way that everyone will be forced to receive that mark is
that he will make all of the other methods of purchasing obsolete, so that one
will either have to receive the mark in order to be able to make purchases or
even have a job or deny it and take ones stand for Christ. It is pretty amazing
to think that ones eternal life would depend on which day one observes the
sabbath, when Jesus said “the sabbath was made for man and not man for the
sabbath.” On the other hand, the mark, which without it., no one will be able to
buy or sell, is referred to as beasts mark and therefore, whoever receives it,
receives him. It also has to do with forcing people to make a choice to save
their lives by receiving the mark or by denying oneself and loving God more than
their own lives. Remember, whoever loves their lives will lose it, but whoever
loses their lives for his name sake and the gospel shall save it. Also, in
regards to your question, the president will not require us to receive a mark,
as it will be the false prophet who will be the one to initiate it. Not only
that, but at that time, whoever is the president will be under the beasts
authority, as will the whole world. The fact that a mark is specified for the
right hand or forehead for the purpose of buying and selling, it would be a good
rule of thumb to avoid it altogether. What is written about the mark, is exactly
what it means.
It is a mark, it goes in the right hand or forehead, without it no one will be
able to buy or sell and it is the beasts mark. I totally agree with that, where
if you want to say that it is the sabbath, then you have to change what the word
of God is saying and ignore what it says and interpret it based on your method
of interpretation. So, the difference between your interpretation and mine is
this, God says “The sky is blue sayeth the Lord” and I read it and I say, amen!
It is blue Lord. You read it and say, hmmm….. I wonder what this means? And
then you go away looking for some other meaning and then come back and go “Aha!
I have it. It is referring to the French revolution!” The book of revelation
should be taken literally unless a symbolic interpretation is required and not
vice versa. Here is a good example of sybolism in revelation
“A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun,
with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head.”
The word of God reveals the symbolism found in revelation either in the book
itself or in some other old or new testament book. The symbolism above is
revealed in Genesis 37:9-10 from Joseph’s dream and it is amazing that even
though God gives us the answer, people still interpret the woman as the church
when she clearly represents Israel. So, unless othewise required, revelation
should be interpreted literally, otherwise the meaning that God intended is
lost. Personally, I hope that you never do receive that mark! Would you actually
go and get done what is literally written in God’s word, considering the
consequences? Would you be willing to actually get the mark, trusting that your
interpretation is correct.? If God says that a third of the earth is going to be
burnt up and a third of all trees will be burnt up and I belive exactly that, do
you think that God will say to me “Don, why did you believe what I said?” On
the otherhand, if you and others ignore what is written, God will say to you
“Why didn’t you believe what I said?” And what would you say “Oh, did you really
mean exactly what you wrote Lord?” There are people who are saying that the book
of revelation is poetic, symbolic and hyperbole, which when one interprets the
book this way, the meaning is lost. I have been studying the word of God for
over 35 years and have been especially draw to revelation and eschatology in
general and I would never have come to the conclusions that some have. Why would
God tell us that the purpose of the book of revelation is to show his servants
the things that must soon take place and then make it all symbolic? I will take
my chances with believing what it literally says and when it is obvious that a
symbolic interpretation is required, then I will find out what that is. What I
will not do is take what is meant to be literal and make it symbolic. I hope
that you will give it some serious thought to what I am saying, because once the
time of the false christ comes and that mark is made manditory and one receives
it, that is the end for that person. He no longer has the opportunity of
salvation.
Whatever the ‘mark’ is … it will have to do with ‘the thoughts and the action’ of people.
The ‘mark on the forehead or in the hand’ of both small and great, rich or poor, bond or free, … all tribes … all peoples .. etc.
Maybe a brainwashing … since people will say ‘who is like the beast??’
Maybe something to do with what a person does with their hands??
But I doubt very much it has anything to do with G8, directly.
Hi Abigail
I think the forehead represents thoughts, and the hands represent service, like you said.
Also it requires dive wisdom and understanding to COUNT the number.
And I think the time is so at hand to count that number!
Yeah, the idea of thought or doing is really a moot point seeing that we already have the prototype for a literal mark that is being tested for going under the skin for the purpose of making purchases. Some coincidence huh? I can just see it now, but Lord, did you really mean what you wrote? When the literal mark comes out, will people be standing in line to get theirs while they’re thinking “It’s a good thing that we know what the real mark of the beast is “Click”, next! The fact that this was prophecied 1900 years ago and now here it is being testing, should be enough proof to recognize it. Come on! The literal interpretation is a reality, staring us in the face and people are sayimg, hmmm.. I think it has to do with thought and doing. If you are ever standing in line to get your literal mark, I hope that you will remember this post and then get out of line, because your eteral life is on the line.
The purpose of the mark is to make merchandise out of you.
Hello … you are a funny person. 🙂
I think that once you have received your number your hands are bound to do the will of a slave.
And that should give you lots to think about.
Do not fret … for if you have followed the Commands of The Lord you will be safe under His wings.
Don,
If you believe that the ten commandments were abolished by the cross then why does Rev 14:12 say that the saints are those who keep the commandments of God? In fact, keeping the commandments are mentioned several times in revelation.
Also, the meaning of the forehead is not the forehead but the mind. The forehead is mentioned over and over in revelation:
Revelation 7:3
“Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.”
Revelation 7:2-4 (in Context) Revelation 7 (Whole Chapter)
Revelation 9:4
They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads.
Revelation 9:3-5 (in Context) Revelation 9 (Whole Chapter)
Revelation 14:1
[ The Lamb and the 144,000 ] Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads.
Revelation 14:1-3 (in Context) Revelation 14 (Whole Chapter)
Revelation 20:4
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Revelation 20:3-5 (in Context) Revelation 20 (Whole Chapter)
Revelation 22:4
They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads.
Revelation 22:3-5 (in Context) Revelation 22 (Whole Chapter)
If you are a true believer your forehead is going to be covered in writing pretty soon. Maybe you should buy a bandana so the beast won’t catch you.
Also the word mark should be translated as a sign (a mark of obedience in regards to the commandments). You must also realize that the mark of the beast has already been instituted a long time ago (dark ages) and many have already been martyred for it.
I’ve read in history books how millions were killed in the inquisition for trying to keep the sabbath (Wallensians etc.) But I don’t recall reading about a mark, barcode or chip. Do you?
And forget about a one-world government. It ain’t gonna happen. Do you actually believe that Americans as well as every other country will vote to give up our constitution to be ruled by a world dictator? Will all the current dictators simply hand over their countries to some new dude? Where does he get the army to take over the world? And how does he convince the world he is Christ if he is obviously so evil?
Your entire theory holds no water. Christ will return before all that stuff comes to pass.
As for the woman, she must be a church as that is what a woman in prophesy is represented by, just as a beast represents a king or kingdom. These are standard fare thru the entire bible so don’t go changing them now. The woman represents the true church – the apostolic (12 stars) church Christ left behind. It had to hide in the wilderness for 1260 years – the exact duration of the Holy Roman Empire – the first beast of revelation. The second woman (the whore of Babylon) represents the church she was hiding from – the roman church – an apostate church stained by the pagan influences of the old roman empire. This church and her harlot offspring will be destroyed when Christ returns to take the first woman (church) as his bride.
He is not going to marry the country of Israel – the woman is his true church.
Believe this: Christ will NEVER accept the fact that the church moved his holy day to the day of a pagan sun god. If you think he’s going to be cool with it then you are in BIG trouble my friend.
And one last thing. You believe that the “mark” must be a chip because the chip has just been invented and put into use already in animals. But we are still a long way from getting a world leader to
Morning! Just to clarify, I did not say that the commands of God were abolished, I said that we are not under the law as in following the written code, but we fulfill the commandments of God as we are led by His Spirit. Don’t you know that through faith we are credited with righteousness just as Father Abraham was? In regards to the mark representing the mind as you say, would you actually stand in line to receive a literal mark, being confident in your interpretation that it is not literal? The commandments that you keep bringing up are to resist the worship of the antichrist, his image or by not receiving his mark, because that would be worshiping another other than God. The commands he is speaking of are to stay faithful to God and to Christ because the saints will be under persecution during that time of great tribulation. Also, regarding the 144,000, this group are 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes of Israel just as it written and has nothing to do with the church. These 144,000 will be a select group who recognize Christ as their messiah, who are also referred to as the first fruits to God out of Israel. For as you know, Israel did not recognize Jesus as their messiah and still do not til this very day, but these 144,000 will during the tribulation period. The seal of God that these 144,000 receive is exactly that, a seal. Those demonic beings that are let of the Abyss are to torment the inhabitants of the earth for five months with their stings like a scorpion, but they are not able to harm those with the seal of God in their foreheads, which is restricted to the 144,000. In regards to the mark, as I said, If I were going to be here, I would not receive the mark because it would be worship of another instead of God. In regards to the name of God written on their foreheads, that is also a promise made to all those who overcome and not just for the 144,000. Not only will the name of the Father be written, but Jesus new name and the name of the new Jerusalem as well will be written for all believers.I’m affraid that in regards to, as you say, that there is not going to be a one world government, you need to pay attention to what is going on in the world. The desire for a one world government is all that those at the top are moving towards. You are very uniformed. You also have to remember that a man is going to be showing up on the stage of history like no other leader before and he will be very charismatic and people of the earth will be in awe of him. Not only that, but he, along with the false prophet will be performing conterfeit, satanic miracles for the purpose of deception. So, this not going to be your average, everyday, run of the mill politician. He will be both political and religious and will have that false prophet as his right hand man, who will be performing his conterfeit miracles to increase this false christ’s credibility. Back when the first ATM’s and barcodes came out I recognized that this technology was going to be used for the mark and I have watched it progress. I told people back then that this world was going to become cashless and they said “Oh, you’re out of your mind! The people will never let the government take away their cash.” Thirty years later and we see that they were wrong, as we are currently around 95% cashless. There is going to be a one world leader and there will be a literal mark because the word of God says so and that can’t be changed, because that is God’s plan. In regards to the “Woman”, you abviously did not go and read Genesis 37:9-10 as I mentioned. In Joseph’s dream he said “I dreamed that the sun, moon and eleven stars came and bowed down before me and Jacob said to Joseph “Will I, your mother and your brothers truely come and bow down before you?” So, Jacob answered the question of who the sun, moon and eleven stars represented. Just so there is no confusion sun = Jacob, Moon = wives, eleven stars = eleven of the twelve tribes of Israel, Joseph being number twelve. That is why in Joseph’s dream there are eleven stars and in Revelation there are twelve, because Joseph is included. Therefore, the woman or revelation is clearly representing Israel and not the church. You do have one thing right though and that is that the prostitute of chapters 17 and 18 are the Roman catholic system and I believe that one of her popes will be that false prophet. The Roman Catholic system is that false religious system, as only a cursorary study of that religious system shows that it is not the true church, though it is made to look like the real thing. In regards to the new world leader, we are not far away at all, why do think that Israel continues to be in turmoil for so long and that all that they talk about is “peach?” The stage is set for this man to come in and make his covenant of peace for seven years with Israel and to allow them to build their temple, which will be on the same site as the dome of the rock, which does not sit on the actual site of the holy of holies, but it has been speculated that the holy holies may have been 150 ft. south of where the dome of the rock is. It might also interest you that, the muslims are also waiting for a man to appear, the twelfth imam. The Unification church is also waiting for a man to show up, the third Adam. So, you can see what is going to happen when this antichrist shows up, as he will he will fit the bill for the man who each group is waiting for. Even Israel will receive him as their messiah, that is, until he sets up that abomination in the holy place, then they will know he is an imposter and that’s when the woman will flee into the wilderness and be cared for 3 1/2 years. The chips that go into animals is not the mark, but only and offshoot of the technoloy that will be used for the mark. The idea behind the mark is, make a purchase, scan your mark and payment is made, just like the current debit card. People will receive it to be able to live and thereby will be worshiping him because, as it is written, it is the beast’s mark. Regarding the sabbath on Sunday, I work two twelve hour shifts on Saturday and Sunday and so I can’t worship on either one of those days. The mark has nothing to do whatsoever with what day one worships God. Just keep watching the world and you will continue to see the movement towards a cashless society and the continued progress and testing of subdermal devices for the purpose of making purchases. To be sure, the antichrist is coming, but praise be to God that immediately following him, Jesus returns and destroys him and his false prophet in the lake of fire.
Hello again!
I think you missed my point in my biblical references. I wanted to know if you believed that the term “forehead” used in all of them always refer to the mind or the skin on the front of your head. And if the names and seals are physically written there.
I believe they obviously refer to the mind, and if so, the mark refers to the mind as well, making the hand “works” as used that way several times before in the bible.
Speaking of being consistent, either a woman represents a nation or a church but not both. Of course the woman of Joseph could represent the “church” of the israelites much better than a nation that would not form for another 500 years or worse, just a group of people. And how do you explain that woman returning from the wilderness to marry Christ at his return? Actual Israelis? I don’t think so.
Just wondering if you plan to reject the new national ID card being issued next year. It seems to be a precursor to the chip. In fact, if the chip had not been invented you would likely be saying that the magnetic strip on the card was the “mark” and we use our right hand to run it thru the scanner at the store.
That’s why I’m not afraid to take a chip as long as it is not being demanded by the Antichrist at least 3-1/2 years into his reign.
Now here’s a question for you, if the Antichrist or false prophet commands mandatory Sunday and Sunday ONLY worship during the tribulation, will you gladly comply?
And finally, I can’t make the connection between buying a hot dog and worshipping the beast. You worship in church – that’s where Satan will capture your prayers. You place the emphasis on the buying and selling and the worship is a secondary almost insignificant consequence of the purchase. That sort of cheap praise will mean nothing to Satan.
I place the emphasis on the worship – the closed stores and restaurants are just an inconvenience many countries already deal with today.
The mark is already here. No computer necessary.
I think it is not even ‘the worship part’. For we worship in Spirit and in Truth.
The day of rest is the command of God.
He is Lord of the Sabbath.
REST is the command.
And yes it is here already. Try filling an application for work and put a check mark beside Saturday unavailable and see if you get employed.
Or try to tell your present employer that you need the day so you may honor your God and see how far that leads you.
Just as the Israelites in Egypt were not given the permission to go and sacrifice to The Lord until God Himself intervened.
See how He fights for those who upholds His Command!
This is a test
The mark of the beast will be “the worship part”, because when the mark come out and all the other methods of buying and selling are made obsolete, then all the people will have to receive his mark in order to puchase anything to live, which will be worshiping him, since it is his mark.
Just a thought.
Hopefully, with the help of the 144000 witnesses, and God, of course, Israel will be saved during the tribulation, and accept her Messiah.
So actually, the woman in the wilderness could very well be Israel.
Now you got it!
Hi James! I just wanted to clarify something. When I reply to posts it is not for the purpose of saying “I’m right and the other person is wrong.” I have studied the word of God for 37 years and was drawn to prophecy and end time events (eschatology) and so my motive is to contend for the truth of God’s word and for accuracy. Now in regards to your post.
You wrote:
“I wanted to know if you believed that the term “forehead” used in all of them always refer to the mind or the skin on the front of your head.”
In regards to the mark of the beast, I believe that this is on the literal forehead, simply because it is stated that without this mark, no one would be able to buy or sell, so it is something that works like the debit card when you swipe it and the amount is deducted from your account. Also, there is nothing in the context that would lead me to believe that it is not literal. I believe it will also be literally on the forehead for the 144,000, but whether or not it is visible or not, it doesn’t say. No one in Israel has records of what tribe they belong to, but that’s ok, because God knows. These 144,000 may not even be aware that they are being sealed at the time it happens. Also, we don’t know whether the mark will be visible to the human eye or not. It just doesn’t give any more information. Obviously those demonic beings that come out of the Abyss can see it, since they are commanded to torment all people for five months, except for those with the seal of God.
You wrote:
“Speaking of being consistent, either a woman represents a nation or a church but not both”
The two woman in revelation are do in fact represent two different groups. The woman in chapter 12 clothed with the sun, the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars represents Israel as revealed by Jacob in Genesis 37:9-10. She is the woman that is cared for for the last 3 1/2 years of the great tribulation up until the return of the Lord to set up his millennial kingdom. She is also the one who gives birth to the male child (144,000) who are later caught up to God’s throne as seen in Rev.14.
The second woman represents the Roman catholic false religious system. We know this because the angel told John that “the seven heads are seven hills upon which the woman sits, which represents the “seven hills” of Rome. When you read a word in the book of revelation, you should not assume that it has the same meaning for every occurance. For example, the word “Stars” has at least four different meanings that I can think of. In Rev. 9:1 and 12:4 it represents fallen angel(s), in Rev. 8:8 it represents an asteroid/meteorite, In Rev 8:12 it represents literal stars, like our sun and in Rev 12:1 they represent the twelve tribes of Israel. So, you can see that the word “Stars” here is not specific to one meaning, just as the term “woman” is not specific to the same meaning.
You wrote:
“And how do you explain that woman returning from the wilderness to marry Christ at his return? Actual Israelis? I don’t think so.”
There are two groups here and they are both Israel. The woman gives birth to the 144,000 and she flees into the wilderness where she is cared for by God for 3 1/2 years out of the reach of the dragon (Satan). This fleeing of the woman is actually synonymous with the desolation that is caused by the abomination being set up in the holy place. The 144,000 are the male child, which are caught up to God’s throne and they are seen in heaven with Christ in Rev 14. The woman will most likely go into the millennium as mortals since they will still be in their original bodies when Jesus returns.
dmcal
God puts his own mark on the 144000, not the beast, to protect them from the wrath to come.
the 144000 are 12000 from each Israeli tribe.
Yes, God puts his own mark on the 144,000 of Israel. God’s seal has nothing to do with the mark of the beast. God’s seal on the forehead of the 144,000 is for a different purpose for the most part.
My Father has a Name whoich is above ALLLLL
names … My thoughts are HIS, His Hand is Mine and My Hand is His.
Since you have a hard time recognizing “” Is REAL”” how will you recognize a tribe???
You are running out of space here.
Please go to the end of the comment section to continue.
While it is true that many words have different symbolic meanings, the term Woman in prophecy is always meant to represent a church. In this case it represents the true apostolic church that existed before the romans infiltrated the church. It was forced to flee from catholic oppression for 3-1/2 PROPHETIC years or 1260 actual years – the same duration of the first beast – the holy roman empire. Now the true church is alive and well and waiting for her bridegroom. It is hard to find because it is only a small remnant but Christ will find it when he returns. And his laws will be written in their minds and on their foreheads just as they were to Moses and his people when they were first delivered on tablets of stone.
Did your church change them?
I just gave you two examples of two differences regarding the word “woman.” Israel is referred to as the woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars. We know this is Israel because in Genesis 37:9-10, Jacob reveals what the sun, moon and the stars represent. That is undeniable. The 1260 days that speak of are the last 3 1/2 of the great tribulation period. This has not taken place yet.
Don,
I just want to clarify something about the chip idea.
While I don’t believe it will be the mark of the beast, I will admit that there are organizations like the Bilderbergs who are planning to chip the world starting in 2018. But their plan will take decades to implement, especially in the third world. Every street vendor in the middle east, south America, India, china etc., will have to be registered and given a high tech scanner and a wireless internet link. It will have to be done in many phases starting with the developed countries and working their way down. Just look at how long it took the US to implement digital TV and you can see that it won’t be done in the few years the Antichrist is in power.
If the US goes to a chip in 2 years, it will not be the mark of the beast, so is it OK with you?
You see, you may be in the same boat as the sabbath keepers – their mark has been around for 1500 years and came in gradually in the early holy roman empire. Your mark may come to be in a similar way only we won’t be martyred like the saints of old for not taking it – at least till the AC gets here.
I have one last question here. I’m happy to see that you recognize that it is the ROMAN catholic church (and many of her harlot offspring churches) that will be destroyed by Christ when he returns, for their iniquities and pagan practices.
Now according to Daniel 7:25 about the antichrist:
He will speak against the Most High and oppress his saints and try to change the set times and the laws. The saints will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time.
The 3-1/2 years refers to the tribulation time and the laws refer to the commandments. The times changed can only refer to the 4th commandment – the sabbath, the only one dealing with a set time.
So the fact that the catholic church deleted the 2nd commandment (graven images) and moved the sabbath to the roman SUN god’s day tags it as the beast of revelation, and that these two changes will be rectified at the second coming.
Thus it follows that the harlots are any church that still worships on Sundays and they will be included in the great church house-cleaning.
Therefore it follows that God still cares about his people honoring his sabbath and will want them to honor it during the tribulation as well. If Satan can prevent this he has transferred worship away from God to himself. Sunday worship shall be a sign by thought or deed of his unwitting followers.
Do you think the catholic church will get a pass on it’s sun-god worship? I’m thinking the whole pagan package will have to go. The bride of Christ will be the church of the 12 apostles, so get used to Saturday worship – its going to make a big comeback!
Augustin exposed heretics and anti-Christs circa 400 AD, especially in his writings against the Donatists. Ask me for the undeniable proof. He described how the heretic anti-Christ Donatists had “effaced” Christ’s baptism, as they are still doing today, although they are no longer called “Donatists”. What does “effaced” mean? “Destroyed”, “done away with” and “wiped out”! Today, heretics and anti-Christs continue to destroy Jesus Christ’s spiritual New Covenant baptism, 1Jn 1-5; 2Jn! Like the symbolic “man of sin” in 2Th 2, a description of all anti-Christs, the vast majority of so-called church leaders and teachers claim they must determine and confirm a newcomer’s entry into God’s spiritual Kingdom through their physical water baptisms and related rituals, Lk 16:15-17; 2Co 11:1-15; etc. They are all liars and deceivers who are denying that Jesus Christ is the Lord, the Head of His spiritual Church, 1Co 12-15; 2Co 2:14-7:1; Gal 3:25-4:31;1Ti 4; Tus 1-3; 2Pe 1-3; Jde; etc! Jesus Christ has always been in full control of His one and only Holy Spirit baptism, not man, Mt 3; Mt 28:18-20; Mk 16:15-20; Lk 24:44-49; Jn 3-4:26; Jn 7:37-39; Jn 12-17; Jn 20; Ac 1:1-8; Ac 2:47b; Ac 10-11:18; 1Co 12:12-13; Eph 4:4-7; etc. True Christians participate in God’s Holy Spirit baptism by receiving and sharing His spiritual “Living Water” but the rest is up to God, not man, Jn 7:37-39; Ac 11:1-18; Ro 5:1-5; 1Co 6:9-11; Eph 5; Jas 1:16-22; 1Pe 1-3; etc! Living Water, also called the “Water of Life” from the Son of God, is one of the three that testify, Heb 8-10; 1Jn 5; Rev 21:6; Rev 22:1,17. Augustin, as all other true Christians will also confess, was spiritually baptized with God’s “Power from on High”, given by Jesus Christ Himself, Lk 24:49; 1Co 1-3; 1Co 8:5-6; 2Co 12:9-10! But heretics and anti-Christs believe in and practice physical baptisms, given by the hands of men, Gal 1-3:24; Col 1-3; etc. Therefore, the false Christians, who give and receive physical baptisms, remain self-condemned under the Law of Sin and Death as heretics and anti-Christs, Ro 1-8; 2Ti 3-4! What Augustin revealed about heretics and anti-Christs confirmed the following; it was written almost a year before the Lord led me to what Augustin wrote.
REV 13: THE MARK OF THE BEAST – 666! DO YOU ALREADY HAVE THE MARK OF THE BEAST?
Do you know that almost every adult, who calls himself or herself a Christian, already has the Rev 13 “mark of the Beast”? Yes, this is true and it has been true for a very long time. Ask God for Wisdom to understand:
The mark of the Beast, the lie of 2Th 2 and physical water baptisms, performed after Ac 11, are all the same evil. Impossible? No! Six times, we read that John baptized with physical water but Jesus Christ must baptize us with His Holy Spirit, Mt 3; Mk 1; Lk 3; Jn 1; Ac 1; Ac 11. Jesus Christ’s saving baptism is the one and only spiritual baptism of God’s New Covenant according to Scriptures such as Mt 20; Mt 28; Mk 10; Mk 16; Lk 11-12; Lk 24; Jn 1-7; Ro 1-8; 1Co 6:9-20; 1Co 12:12-13; Gal 3; Eph 4:4-7; Eph 5:25-32; Col 1-2; Jas 1:16-18; 1Pe 1-3; etc. After John the Baptist went to prison, Jesus Christ began His earthly Ministry. During the time of His earthly Ministry, His apostles did not baptize anyone in or with physical water. Don’t stumble on Jn 3:22-4:3, John the Baptist wasn’t in prison yet and the Apostle John’s Gospel is not in chronological order. So, if the apostles did not perform any physical water baptisms during Jesus Christ’s entire earthly Ministry, what makes anyone think that Mt 28; Mk 16; Ac 1-7; Ac 9; Ac 12-28; etc. are about physical water? They aren’t! They are about “Living Water”, “the Water of Life”, that we must also spiritually drink! Read Jn 7:37-39; Rev 21-22. Did the apostles have a temporary problem accepting non-Jews without first putting them through some of the Jewish rituals? Yes, they did in Ac 8; Ac 10 but what did Peter learn in Ac 10-11? Peter learned that he had opposed God! Non-Jews will be included in God’s Plan of Salvation in the very same Way as the believing Jews – through sincere repentance and faith that lead to obedience, Mt 3-7; Mk 1:14-15; Jn 8-21; Ac 11; Ac 15; Ro 1-16; Gal 1-6; etc. Until we receive God’s saving New Covenant baptism from the Lord Jesus Christ through God’s Word, we have no Grace as God defines it and no salvation. Multitudes may think they have God’s Grace but they do not, exactly as it has been prophesied to happen in these Last Days. This is the reason for all of the confusion among denominations, sects and cults. They have all invented their own false gospels instead of believing and obeying what Jesus Christ taught and told them to do, especially first of all in Mt 6:33a. What is it, exactly, that we must find first? Did you begin where Jesus Christ told us to begin?
Read Jn 1-7; Heb 1-13; 1Pe 1-5; Rev 1-22. Pay careful attention to the descriptions of the saved 144,000 in Rev 14:1-5 and the Voices of Rev 1; Rev 14. What must be “written” on our “foreheads”? God’s Name, also called: “The Word of God!” “Living Water” is a description of God’s Word in Spirit and in Truth. God’s Word must be written in our minds and on our hearts as God’s “Water of Life” that we must also spiritually drink!
Who had physical rituals for washing their “hands” instead of ceasing to do evil? The Jews of 2000 years ago, especially the unbelieving Jews, who symbolized all of the false Christians to come, Mt 15; Mk 7. How are these Jews described in Rev 2? As “a synagogue of Satan”, the same “Beast” of Rev 13, who persecuted the early true Christians. Who is the second “synagogue of Satan” in Rev 3? False Christians, who have followed in the footsteps of the first Beast, exactly as prophesied in many OT and NT Scriptures. They also wash the outside with physical water but leave the inside full of greed, wickedness and dead men’s bones, Mt 23; Lk 11-12. The second synagogue of Satan also persecuted true Christians, especially the true Christians of 350 years ago, the ones perfectly prophesied as the Philadelphia church in Rev 3. These true Christians founded Philadelphia, USA, after proving all of the carnal churches and all of their related carnal institutions are false!
What “sea” did the Beast come out of? The symbolic “Red Sea” where the symbolic wicked got wet and drowned, Ex 12-15. What is it that true Christians cannot “buy” or “sell”? God’s Gospel Truth since God’s Gospel Truth cannot be bought or sold with money, Isa 55; Mk 11; Rev 21-22. False Christians try to buy and sell but all they have to offer is lies from Satan, 2Co 11:1-15; 2Pe 1-3! Where was “666” revealed? In Isa 66:6 of the Old Covenant but primarily in Jn 6:66 of the New. Like the disciples of Jn 6, who rejected Jesus Christ and His Word, false Christians have refused to accept the fact that God is Spirit and He must be worshiped in Spirit and in Truth. God’s Light and Living Bread are spiritual, His Living Water is spiritual and the Holy Blood of Jesus Christ, when it is symbolized by the Wine, is spiritual, Jn 1-7. What was symbolized in Jn 2:1-11?
God’s New Covenant is spiritual; it is impossible to belong to the Law of Sin and Death and be saved. We must leave the Old Covenant and belong to the Law of the Spirit of Life, Ro 1-8. How do we go from the Law of Sin and Death to belong to the Law of the Spirit of Life? The correct answer is simple and short; it will take a couple of sentences or a small paragraph to explain. Only true Christians will know the correct simple short answer because we have experienced it. False Christians, who belong to the synagogue of Satan, do not know the correct simple short answer, 1Co 1-3. Do you know? Do your “teachers” know? If not, then you have a most serious problem that you must not ignore! Start over. Begin with Mt 6:33a. Contact me anytime regarding God’s exact original Gospel Truth. Freely have true Christians received and freely we will give!
In the service of the Righteous One from God the Father,
anne robare / canawedding at aol dot com
HI Anne,
Thank you for all that information and references for the Word of God. I hope people read it and consider your points.
God bless you.
Anna, you write so much but that is no proof o being right.
You say, do not stumble over Jn 3:22-4:3. Now either the disciple of Jesus baptized with water or not. What difference does it make whether John was in prison or not. Also Philip baptized the Ethiopian in water. You can not play off the water baptism against the baptism with the Holy Spirit. Nobody can sell or buy the word of God, so what’s the point of stating that not truly baptized can not do it?
Why does anyone have to contact you for God’s exact original Gospel Truth when it is clearly defined and laid out in the Bible? Do you think you have any superior knowledge that is not already contained in the scriptures?
Matthew 6:33 is not the gospel of salvation. It is part of Jesus’ teaching on worrying over worldly things like the pagans do.
Matthew 6:25-34 NIV
25″Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? 26Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life[b]?
28″And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.
You said “But heretics and anti-Christs believe in and practice physical baptisms, given by the hands of men, Gal 1-3:24; Col 1-3; etc”
Really? That is not what the Bible says. You are not saved by water baptism but nowhere in the Bible does it say that you are a heretic or antichrist by either having received or given a water baptism.
You said “Do you know that almost every adult, who calls himself or herself a Christian, already has the Rev 13 “mark of the Beast”? Yes, this is true and it has been true for a very long time. Ask God for Wisdom to understand:”
You certainly didn’t get this idea from the Bible. First of all all believer’s in Christ will be raptured before the rule of antichrist. The mark of the beast hasn’t happened yet since it is related to the worship of antichrist.
The 144,000 refer to people from the 12 tribes of Israel, not the general public or gentiles.
1 Corinthians 9:13-15 NIV
But we did not use this right. On the contrary, we put up with anything rather than hinder the gospel of Christ. 13Don’t you know that those who work in the temple get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar? 14In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.
15But I have not used any of these rights. And I am not writing this in the hope that you will do such things for me. I would rather die than have anyone deprive me of this boast.
1 Corinthians 9:17,18 NIV
17If I preach voluntarily, I have a reward; if not voluntarily, I am simply discharging the trust committed to me. 18What then is my reward? Just this: that in preaching the gospel I may offer it free of charge, and so not make use of my rights in preaching it.
The gospel is in the Bible and it is simple. Believe and have faith in Christ for the redemption of your sins.
Romans 1:16,17 NIV
16I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 17For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last,[a] just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”[b]
1 Corinthians 15:1-3 NIV
1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.
3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
Ephesians 1:12-14 NIV
12in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
2 Timothy 2:7-9 NIV
7Reflect on what I am saying, for the Lord will give you insight into all this.
8Remember Jesus Christ, raised from the dead, descended from David. This is my gospel, 9for which I am suffering even to the point of being chained like a criminal. But God’s word is not chained.
Romans 10:8-10 NIV
8But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,”[a] that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: 9That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.
Romans 10:12-14 NIV
12For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”[a]
14How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?
It is LITERALLY a mark that will be in the hand (and it is already being modified for use IN OUR BODY! Google the word: “VERICHIP” …If people take it they will basically be saying they trust in they beast or government’system’ for their sustenance, and not God… When this mark comes up, it is going to be VERY tempting to take it for our needs-DON’T GET IT! The Lord has already said what will happen to those who take it in Revelations. It even says in Revelations that you cannot BUY or SELL without it!!! That sounds LITERAL to me!!! =) The LORD WILL provide for HIS people that turn to Him for sustenance and provision, and don’t give in to the beast system & get the mark.
Also Marianne, you asked where above does the barcode include the number 666…I think you would all be SUPRISED to know that it DOES indeed have the number 666 in it!!! It is hidden and not plainly advertised…If you look again at the above picture you posted of the barcode, look at the (3) guard bars… Those ALL are 6’s…And there are (3) of them! If you even look at the lines above the 6’s, and what the line symbol for 6 looks like above it, and then look at it again, the 3 guard bars DO say 666.
I DID NOT just make this up- I saw a series on it and learned about this… I would have never realized that the guard bars had a number representation…But yes, there are (3) guard bars and they EACH represent the number 6…So it says 666.
PLEASE PLEASE Christians…If we are still here during the time the mark is being given out, DO NOT…I repeat DO NOT take it!! In the Bible it says those who take it- they WILL go to hell. That they are putting their trust in the system, rather than God, during a crucial moment in history…PLEASE DON’T TAKE IT!!!
For more info on the mark of the beast, please see:
Click to access ETM-2006-05-Will-The-National-ID.pdf
With Love,Catrina
Hi Catrina! You are correct! It is a literal mark and there is no reason to look for a symbolic meaning. It’s good to see that the Holy Spirit has revealed the truth to others as well. It amazes me, the fact that we are seeing the literal fulfillment of this mark, that is, we are seeing the technology for it and people still run after other interpretations. I don’t get it! I have been reading books that people have been writing, classifying the book of revelation under Hyperbole, poetry and symbolism and all based on their method of interpretation, instead of taking it at face value. This is a dangerous practice, because as far as I’m concerned, this could be said to be taking away form the word of this prophecy. For those of you who are reading this and saying “How are we doing that?” Simple, as an example, the book of revelation might say “The sky is blue sayeth the Lord” and I say amen! I agree with that Lord, the sky is blue. But, people come along and read that the Lord says that the sky is blue and they say, “Hmmm…. I wonder what that means?” and they go off looking for some other meaning other than “The sky is blue.” This is exaclty what they do with what is written in the bookk of revelation. But, it does say that in the latter times that some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. What is the danger of this? It is that people are teaching contrary to what it actually says in print and are replacing it out of pride and arrogance with their interpretation of the meaning. So, if people are convinced by these teachings that the mark of the beast is not to be taken literally, then you will have people waiting in line to get theirs, being convinced that the mark has nothing to do with a literal mark and will receive it and all because people wrote books on it saying not to worry. They do the same thing regarding the resurrection and catching away, saying that it has already taken place, but Paul referred to those who were teaching that in his time as being those who had “wandered from the truth” and he called it “Godless chatter” (2 Tim.2:16-18) If you continue to take the word of God at face value, except where there are obvious symbolic meanings, you will do well. I pray that God will open the eyes of these people, so that they will believe what He has written and stop trusting in theirs or someone elses interpretations.
Hello … you are still a funny guy.
If you believe the mark is to be taken in a literal fashion, as you say the Scriptures are to be taken … then why do you insist that we are not to follow the commands of The Lord?
And if the ‘mark’ is a literal mark which will definitely mark you … then the ‘beast’ is a literal beast.
The sky is blue for now … but soon it will be dark, my friend.
The commands of The word of God must be followed, while the sky is blue.
Hi
radio-frequence tattoos are already available, currently tested on cattle.
I think most of Rev. is to be taken literally, except when not defined otherwise there.
The aspect of buying and selling is connected to the personal account informations in the chip/tattoo.
In the german Luther-Bible “taking the mark IN the hand” is translated with “AT or ON the hand”.
When it is “IN” (=into) the hand, like in the KJV, than it likely will be the RFID-Chip. The reason may be: In the hand and forehead is the temperaturedifference for energy-recharge at highest, says a study.
.
Marianne,
iam reading the Book of Enoch.
Enoch was a just man and taken away by god.. he took a “trip” with two angels through all heavens and earth. He explains very very much.
Very detailed explanation of the falling of Asasel and the other angels, their punishment; structure of Hades, Heaven and Earth; what is the tree of life and tree of wisdom/knwoledge etc.
I could think Rome (Harlot Babylon) took it out, for it had too much knowledge.
.
Sth else: there is another explanation why it is written the false Messiah has “no regard for women”. He may be androgyn!
The goal of the Elite is to make mankind androgyn and without identity and as a engineered slave race (like you can see in SciFi Movies). So he could be an “example”, THE idol for mankind.
They are putting currently hormones in the plasticpackages and so on, thats also (besides groundwaterpollution by the pill) a reason why the men have now much less fertility and why the puberty is setting in much earlier than in the past. The eugenistis try population reduction on all levels with all means.
Hi Silvan,
Let me know any thoughts you have about Enoch. I started to read it, and then I was taken away from it. I really need to read it….it took me a time to distinguish the watchers as good or bad angels. It does not say, which is confusing to me, unless I missed that.
Interesting thought about the androgyn as a possible antichrist
Which angels do you mean with watchers? Iam reading it in german language.
These angels are evil: Semjasa, Urakib, Arameel, Akibeel, Tamiel, Rauel, Danel, Ezeqeel, Saraqujal, Asael, Armers, Betraal, Anani, Zaqebe, Samsaveel, Sartael, Tumael, Turel, Jomjael, Arasjal.
They took women as described in Gen. 6 too.
What exactly you did not understand?
Hi! I have a copy of what is called “Ethiopic Enoch.” The watchers were 200 fallen angels who came down on mount Ardis. Who knows, they could have been the angels who built the great pyramid, which the bible says is God’s testimony in the midst of Egypt. Anyway, these watchers had as their leader Samyaza and those who were leaders over the rest. Whatever they were doing, when they descended, they saw that the daughters of men were beautiful and agreed to all take wives for themselves, but Samayaza said, “I suppose that I alone will suffer for such a grievous crime.” But the rest of the angels bound themselves with execrations (oaths) and swore that they would continue with their disire to take wives. The results were that the offspring of these watchers grew into giants (Nephilim Genesis 1:1-2) and Enoch says that they were 300 cubits tall. If we use even the lowest mesurement for an ancient cubit, it would mean that these angels would be over 400 ft tall, which would explain why it says that, all the work of man’s hand could not sustain their hunger and the offspring of the watchers began to injure birds, repiles animals and men. They would have been too out of scale for normal size food. Not only that, but the watchers taught mankind scorcery, divination, the dividing of roots and trees, astrology, the solution to sorcery, how to make weapons of war and the beautifying of the eyebrows (make-up). And the world was corrupted because of the watchers offspring and what they taught mankind. This was the very reason for the flood. These watchers (angels) are mentioned in 2 Peter 2:4 and is why they were cast into what is incorrectly translated “Hell.” The word used is “Tartaroo”, which is used only once here to describe the deepest realm of the Abyss, the abode of demons, which is synonymous with fallen angels, also called unclean spirits. These watchers are being held until the great white throne judgment.
Correction: The giants would be over 400 ft tall, not the angels.
The real mark of the beast has been around for most of the last 2000 years. Augustin of Hippo, circa 400 AD, also revealed what it is and who the heretics and anti-Christs are. I did not read the following from his “On the Creed” until about a year after the above on 666 was written.
All true Christians, including Augustin, repeatedly declare God’s saving Gospel Truth about the Righteousness that is revealed in the Gospel. People, people, until you begin where we were told to begin, in Mt 6:33a; Ro 1:16-25, you will never understand the Scriptures, 1Pe 2:6-8.
Here is a small portion of “On the Creed” where Augustin revealed the mark of the beast and the image beast. He knew what the mark is and what he wrote confirmed what i wrote above. My comments are in capital letters within brackets.
16. In three ways then, are sins remitted in the Church: by Baptism, by prayer, by the greater humility of penance. Yet God does not remit sins but to the baptized. [SO, WITH THE WRONG BAPTISM, NO SINS ARE REMITTED! FALSE CHRISTIANS, THE HERETICS AND THE ANTI-CHRISTS, ALL REMAIN IN THEIR SINS UNDER THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH, RO 1-8!] The very sins, which He remits first, He remits not but to the baptized. When? When they are baptized! [“THE BAPTIZED” ARE TRUE CHRISTIANS, WHO ARE BAPTIZED BY GOD INTO AND WITH THE NAME: GOD’S LIVING WATER, THE HOLY BLOOD OF CHRIST AND THE HOLY SPIRIT, 1JN 5! 1JN 5:13: “THESE THINGS HAVE I WRITTEN UNTO YOU, THAT YE MAY KNOW THAT YE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE, EVEN UNTO YOU THAT BELIEVE ON THE NAME OF THE SON OF GOD!” “THE VERY SINS, WHICH HE REMITS FIRST” HE REMITS “TO THE BAPTIZED” “WHEN THEY ARE BAPTIZED!” WHAT DID THEY DO? THEY REPENTED AND BELIEVED GOD’S GOSPEL, MK 1:14-15; JN 8. WHERE DID THEY BEGIN? AT MT 1-13, ESPECIALLY MT 6:33a; RO 1:16-25! HOW WERE THEY BAPTIZED? 1CO 6:11b: “BUT YE WERE WASHED, BUT YE WERE SANCTIFIED, BUT YE WERE JUSTIFIED IN THE NAME OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST AND IN THE SPIRIT OF OUR GOD!” BY WHOM? NOT BY MAN!] The sins, which are after remitted upon prayer, upon penance, to whom He remits; it is to the baptized that He remits. For how can they say, “Our Father,” who are not yet born sons? [AND HOW ARE TRUE CHRISTIANS “BORN SONS”? JN 1:12-13: “BUT AS MANY AS RECEIVED HIM, TO THEM GAVE HE THE RIGHT TO BECOME CHILDREN OF GOD, EVEN TO THEM THAT BELIEVE ON HIS NAME. WHO WERE BORN, NOT OF BLOOD NOR OF THE WILL OF THE FLESH NOR OF THE WILL OF MAN, BUT OF GOD!” HERE, THE WORD “BLOOD” IS USED IN HUMAN TERMS, AS IN BLOOD RELATIVES. JN 8:36: “IF, THEREFORE, THE SON SHALL MAKE YOU FREE, YE SHALL BE FREE INDEED!” “FREE” FROM WHAT? SIN, JN 5! JN 8:31b-32: “IF YE ABIDE IN MY WORD, THEN ARE YE TRULY MY DISCIPLES AND YE SHALL KNOW THE TRUTH AND THE TRUTH SHALL MAKE YOU FREE!” 1PE 1:22-23: “SEEING YE HAVE PURIFIED YOUR SOULS IN YOUR OBEDIENCE TO THE TRUTH UNTO UNFEIGNED LOVE OF THE BRETHREN, LOVE ONE ANOTHER FROM THE HEART FERVENTLY, HAVING BEEN BEGOTTEN AGAIN, NOT OF CORRUPTIBLE SEED BUT OF INCORRUPTIBLE, THROUGH THE WORD OF GOD, WHICH LIVETH AND ABIDETH!” WHAT DOES PHYSICAL WATER HAVE TO DO WITH “PURIFYING YOUR SOULS”? THERE IS NO PHYSICAL WATER IN JN 3:1-21!] The Catechumens, so long as they be such, have upon them all their sins. If Catechumens, how much more pagans? How much more heretics? But to heretics we do not change their baptism. Why? Because they have baptism in the same way as a deserter has the soldier’s mark! Just so these also have baptism, they have it but to be condemned thereby, not crowned! [WHO ARE “THESE” WHO “ALSO HAVE BAPTISM IN THE SAME WAY AS A DESERTER”? HERETICS AND ANTI-CHRISTS! NOTICE: “THE SOLDIER’S MARK”! AUGUSTIN USED THE WORD “CHARACTEREM” FOR “MARK” ACCORDING TO THE TEXT MARGIN. MY COPY OF THE LATIN VULGATE HAS THE WORD “CARACTER” FOR THE MARK OF THE BEAST IN REV 13:16-17. IN REV 14:9,11; REV 16:2; REV 19:20; REV 20:4, THE LATIN VULGATE HAS: “CARACTEREM” EVERY SINGLE TIME FOR “MARK” WHERE THE “IMAGE” OF THE BEAST IS METIONED. THE GREEK WORD FOR THE MARK OF THE BEAST IS “CHARAGMA”. WHAT IS THE FIRST BEAST? THE UNBELIEVING JEWS WHO CRUCIFIED JESUS CHRIST AND PERSECUTED THE EARLY TRUE CHRISTIANS, CALLED THE “SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN”, REV 2; REV 13! WHAT IS THE “IMAGE OF THE BEAST”? THE SECOND SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN, A COPY OF THE FIRST, THE FALSE CHRISTIANS WHO HAVE FOLLOWED IN THE FOOTSTEPS OF THE UNBELIEVING JEWS, DAN 7; REV 3; REV 13! THE FALSE CHRISTIAN HERETICS AND ANTI-CHRISTS ALSO “CLEANSE THE OUTSIDE” BUT LEAVE THE INSIDE FULL OF WICKEDNESS AND “DEAD MEN’S BONES”, MT 23; MK 7; LK 11! ARE PHYSICAL WATER BAPTISMS “THE MARK OF THE BEAST”? ABSOLUTELY! GOD’S “NAME” MUST BE ON OUR FOREHEADS, SPIRITUALLY WRITTEN THERE THROUGH GOD’S AUTHORITY AND POWER, REV 14:1-5! NO MATTER HOW TEMPORARY THE VISIBLE EVIDENCE IS, NO PHYSICAL MARK DONE THROUGH THE HANDS OF MEN WILL EVER BE ALLOWED IN GOD’S NEW COVENANT TEMPLE! ALL FALSE CHRISTIANS, THE HERETICS AND THE ANTI-CHRISTS, “ALSO HAVE BAPTISM, THEY HAVE IT BUT TO BE CONDEMNED THEREBY, NOT CROWNED!” THEY ARE ALL HEADED FOR THE ETERNAL LAKE OF FIRE WHERE THE FALSE PROPHET AND THE BEAST WILL BE THROWN BECAUSE THEY ARE THE FALSE PROPHET AND THE BEAST!] And, yet, if the deserter himself, being amended, begin to do duty as a soldier, does any man dare to change his mark? [“DOES ANY MAN DARE TO CHANGE HIS MARK?!” MT 10: IT IS SPIRITUAL SUICIDE TO FIGHT AGAINST GOD, TO DENY HIS AUTHORITY AND POWER!]
17. We believe also “the Resurrection of the flesh,” which went before in Christ, that the Body too may have Hope of that which went before in its Head. The Head of the Church: Christ. The Church: the Body of Christ. Our Head is risen, ascended into Heaven! Where the Head, there also the members! In what way the Resurrection of the flesh? Lest any should chance to think it like as Lazarus’ resurrection, that you may know it to be not so; it is added: “Into Life everlasting!” God regenerate you! God preserve and keep you! God bring you safe unto Himself, Who is the Life Everlasting! Amen! [CHRIST IS “THE HEAD OF THE CHURCH”, NOT “THE BODY”. GOD MUST “REGENERATE YOU”! HE ALONE, NOT MAN, CAN “PRESERVE”, “KEEP YOU” AND “BRING YOU SAFE UNTO HIMSELF”, HE “WHO IS THE LIFE EVERLASTING! AMEN!”]
IN GOD’S LOVE AS HE DEFINES LOVE,
anne robare/ canawedding at aol dot com
Marianne;
A video on ABC on Micro chips in Mexico’s Law Enforcement:
Kittii
They are mad!!
Marianne:
Cashless Society by 2017 from NBC:
Kittii
Where are all the cream puffs??
Yes, where are they?
Sleeping.
Luke-warm.
Money lovers.
Fearing to tell the thruth of wrath, repentance, judgement and hell.
The “great falling away” is taking place before our eyes.
I read that the VISA-Boss says we will have the cashless-society until 2012.
“2012 again”, i thought.. 😉
No, the great falling away is not currently taking place. Here is the scripture:
“Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be maines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains. Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations becasue of me. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other,
So, the reason for the falling away is because people will be persecuted and put death because of their faith in Jesus, which if you read further, it is because the “Abomination of Desolation” will be set up and from that time on, the man of lawlessness will be given power over the saints to make war against them and to conquer them for 3 1/2 years. This “great falling away” is an event that takes place in the middle of the last seven years, which the church will not enter into as the entire church, dead and living will be resurrected and caught up prior to this.
The financial system will collapse in weeks, replaced by new currencies likely the Amero in the Northamerican Union and the SDR-Special Drawing Rights as new global reserve currency issued by the IMF/BIS. This (again private) central bank will get the global control and supervision, i.e. financial world government.
It could be that the Pandemic will be used to introduce cashless, because money is carrier of viruses.
Today we are already, esp. in USA, paying just small amounts of money up to about 100 Dollars in cash.
It is just a short way to the mark of the beast now!
Isn’t it interesting that the Mark of the Beast must be put on the forehead or the hands.
These are the very two places where those who trust and believe Father God,have to put His Laws!
They are put there to be remembered and obeyed.
It would be just like Satan, to want to remove God’s Laws and replace them with his own system.
Also it is important to focus on what Revelation 13:18 actualy says.We are called to use wisdom.It requires those who have insight.Then and only then can they CALCULATE the number of the beast.So the number 666 is just the end result.The mystery is to be found in the calculating, which Scripture tells us to do!
Think and pray about it!
Hi Glenn
That is true. The Jews were told to put signs on their hands and forehead when they pray. I have seen the box on the forehead and the leather straps around the hand.
Satan is a copy cat.
Boycott isreali “729” products please.
(http://www.inminds.co.uk/boycott-news-0073.html)
Also see:
http://www.whale.to/b/bar.html
There are wave harmonics at play too .. it literally “imprints” the code (and frequency) into the item when scanned.
peace
Glenn Davis wrote:
Isn’t it interesting that the Mark of the Beast must be put on the forehead or the hands. These are the very two places where those who trust and believe Father God,have to put His Laws! They are put there to be remembered and obeyed. It would be just like Satan, to want to remove God’s Laws and replace them with his own system. Also it is important to focus on what Revelation 13:18 actualy says.We are called to use wisdom.It requires those who have insight.Then and only then can they CALCULATE the number of the beast.So the number 666 is just the end result.The mystery is to be found in the calculating, which Scripture tells us to do! Think and pray about it!
anne’s reply to Glenn Davis:
Read Rev 14:1-5. What must be in our foreheads? Yes, the Greek word means “in” our foreheads as well as “on”. God’s Name! Read Dt 32:1-4 for the first few verses of the Song of Moses that is mentioned, for a very good reason, in Rev 15:1-4. How does God’s Name get to be in our foreheads? Through some physical water ritual? Peter said God’s Divine Power has given us everything we need to participate in God’s Divine Nature, 2Pe 1. What does a physical water ritual given to the flesh by the hands of flesh have to do with God’s Divine Power or God’s Divine Nature? What do we read about those who remain in the flesh in Ro 8:6-8? What do we read about those who only think they are justiying themselves before men, Lk 16:15-17?
The unbelieving Jews loved their hand washing rituals but who puts physical water on foreheads? What must be in our foreheads? Wisdom from God through the anointing from God, 1Co 1; 1Jn 2. We must have “the Mind of Christ” in order to be saved, 1Co 2. We must have God’s Word spiritually written on our hearts and in our minds, Heb 8-10. This is what it means to have God’s Name in our foreheads because God’s Word is Spirit and God’s Word is Life, Jn 4; Jn 6. Who didn’t believe what Jesus Christ said in Jn 6 and elsewhere? The deserters who left because they refused to believe in His saving spiritual Words, Jn 6:66. Glenn, the real 666 was already described in my previous post. About a year after i learned what i did about Jn 6:66, the Lord led me to read what Augustin wrote circa 400 AD. What did Augustin say about the deserters in Jn 6:66? He called them the “first heretics”! I had known for some time that they symbolized all false Christians but i had not thought of them as the “first heretics” although they most certainly are. Now for the most amazing part: Augustin wrote that they were the “first heretics” about 1000 years before the verses were numbered! Who told Augustin that they were the “first heretics”? God! Who told me that Jn 6:66 is the mark of the beast, 666? God! Who has, many times, confirmed what i learned? God! Multitudes have ignored or rejected what Jesus Christ promised in Mt 28 and in other Scriptures: “And lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world!” All true Christians are taught by God, Jn 6:45; 1Jn 2. All true Christians will all have the very same “Mind of Christ”, 1Co 1-2. Those without the Mind of Christ will hear the real Lord Jesus Christ say that He never knew them before they are tossed where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth, Mt 7; Lk 13; Rev 20.
And, yes, Satan has worked very hard to change God’s saving spiritual Gospel Truth, Jn 4:4-26. Satan masquerades as an angel of Light but he isn’t and his servants masquerade as servants of Righteousness but they are not, 2Co 11. Without the Righteousness that is revealed in the Gospel by Faith, as God has defined His saving Faith, there is no Salvation, Ro 1-11. What is this Righteousness? Seek first God’s Kingdom and God’s Righteousness, Mt 6:33a. It is in everyone’s face in plain sight in the Scriptures but if you do not hunger and thirst for Righteousness from God, you will never see it, you will never receive it and you will not be saved. You wrote, “Think and pray about it!” We were told to “ask … seek … knock”, Mt 7; Lk 11. Seek! Ask for help and knock for God’s Way, God’s Truth and God’s Life, Jn 14.
gyod wrote:
Anna, you write so much but that is no proof o being right. You say, do not stumble over Jn 3:22-4:3. Now either the disciple of Jesus baptized with water or not. What difference does it make whether John was in prison or not. Also Philip baptized the Ethiopian in water. You can not play off the water baptism against the baptism with the Holy Spirit. Nobody can sell or buy the word of God, so what’s the point of stating that not truly baptized can not do it?
anne’s reply to gyod:
I “write so much”? What i have posted can be read in a few minutes. Usually my posts aren’t even the length of a typical chapter in a book. And, “no proof of being right”? Well, prove me wrong then although i know you cannot, Lk 21:15; Jn 3:21. And, you haven’t noticed but i am declaring WHY JESUS CHRIST IS THE LORD, 1Co 12:3. Anyone can say the mere words that Jesus Christ is the Lord but only true Christians can declare WHY JESUS CHRIST IS THE LORD and you have seen it take place in front of your face.
Why did you stumble on Jn 3:22-4:3? What do we read there? Jn 3:24. “For John was not yet cast into prison.” Is this important? Yes, very important whether you realize it or not. Jesus Christ did not start His earthly Ministry until John was put in prison. Read Mt 4 and Mk 1. And, whose disciples were baptizing in Jn 3:22-4:3? They had been John’s and they went over to Jesus Christ and why wouldn’t they? They had believed what John the Baptist said about Jesus Christ but have you? Also, there had to be a transition from John’s ministry to Jesus Christ’s Ministry. Why? Jn 4:1. “When, therefore, the Lord knew that the Pharisees had heard that Jesus was making and baptizing more disciples than John 2. (although Jesus Himself baptized not but His disciples), He left Judea and departed again into Galilee.” Who had to see a transition? Did they see it? Do you see it? Now, read Mt 4 and Mk 1 again. When did Jesus Christ’s earthly Ministry start? After it began, where do we read of one single physical water baptism? You won’t find a single one because His apostles never physically baptized another Jew again and they did not physically baptize any non-Jews until Ac 8; Ac 10-11 and then never again. If you disagree, give me the Scriptural proof but you won’t find any.
You asked, “What difference does it make whether John was in prison or not.” Big difference and you would understand why if you understood the Law of Sin and Death and the Law of the Spirit of Life, Ro 1-8. You will not understand any of these Scriptures until you start over and begin with Jesus Christ’s command to seek first God’s Kingdom and God’s Righteousness, believe what you find, repent of all false beliefs and sins and become a bondservant of God’s Righteousness through His Power and for His Glory, Ro 1-8.
You wrote: “Also Philip baptized the Ethiopian in water.” Yes, he did but why didn’t you mention the Samaritans of Ac 8 and Cornelius in Ac 10-11? And, what happened to Philip? He vanished into thin air! Why did that happen and why hasn’t it ever happened again? The Samaritans, the eunuch and Cornelius and family were non-Jews. Weren’t these Scriptures already explained above? What did Peter and the rest of the believing Jews finally learn in Ac 10-11 about non-Jews? You ought to learn the very same critical Gospel Truth they did because if they had continued to physically baptize non-Jews, they would have opposed God as Peter declared in Ac 11.
You wrote: “You can not play off the water baptism against the baptism with the Holy Spirit.” What do you think this is, a game? Read Eph 4:4-7, “one Baptism”. You mentioned two. Read 1Co 12:12-13 about the same one Baptism of Eph 4:4-7. Did you spiritually drink your one and only spiritual Baptism that only the real Lord Jesus Christ can give? No? Then you are not saved. If He does not wash us, then we have no part with Him, Jn 13-17.
You wrote: “Nobody can sell or buy the word of God, so what’s the point of stating that not truly baptized can not do it?” The apostles repeatedly made it clear that they were to be content with food and clothes. They worked for a living and they would never take money for declaring God’s Salvation through God’s Power. And, they would never sell the Scriptures that they wrote, never. And, unless you are born again of Living Water, also called the Water of Life, and the Holy Spirit, you will most certainly not enter into God’s Kingdom, Jn 3:1-21; Jn 4:4-26; Heb 10; 1Jn 5; Rev 21-22. If you do not make it into God’s Kingdom, then the alternative is the Lake of Fire, Rev 20. God’s Holy Spirit Baptism gives true Christians Wisdom from God, Righteousness from God, Holiness from God and Redemption from God, 1Co 1-2. Unless your Righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and the Pharisees, you will most certainly not be allowed into God’s Kingdom, Mt 5. Now, you should quit fighting against your Salvation and seek to find the Righteousness that is revealed in the Gospel by Faith, Mt 6:33a; Ro 1:16-25.
Hi Anne,
I find what you write very interesting, to say the least.
Could you please, explain the Baptism of Fire …
Fire and water are two different elements.
I would be interested in your perception.
Thanks.
You are not saved based on water baptism but on faith in Christ. However, the New Testament clearly teaches water baptism of believer’s.
John 4:1-3 NIV
1The Pharisees heard that Jesus was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John, 2although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples. 3When the Lord learned of this, he left Judea and went back once more to Galilee.
Acts 2:38,39 NIV
38Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”
Acts 2:40,41 NIV
40With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.
Acts 8:11-13 NIV
11They followed him because he had amazed them for a long time with his magic. 12But when they believed Philip as he preached the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13Simon himself believed and was baptized. And he followed Philip everywhere, astonished by the great signs and miracles he saw.
Acts 8:36 NIV
36As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water. Why shouldn’t I be baptized?”[a]
Acts 8:38,39 NIV
38And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him. 39When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing.
Acts 9:17-19 NIV
17Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here—has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul’s eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized, 19and after taking some food, he regained his strength.
Acts 10:47,48 NIV
Then Peter said, 47″Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.
Acts 18:7,8 NIV
7Then Paul left the synagogue and went next door to the house of Titius Justus, a worshiper of God. 8Crispus, the synagogue ruler, and his entire household believed in the Lord; and many of the Corinthians who heard him believed and were baptized.
Acts 22:15,16 NIV
15You will be his witness to all men of what you have seen and heard. 16And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.’
1 Corinthians 1:15-17 NIV
15so no one can say that you were baptized into my name. 16(Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else.) 17For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
This verse shows that believer’s were baptized but that their salvation does not depend on it. The gospel saves. Baptism is an outward sign of your commitment to Christ.
Hebrews 6:1-3 NIV
1Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death,[a] and of faith in God, 2instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3And God permitting, we will do so.
1 Peter 3:20-22 NIV
20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge[a] of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.
The mark of the beast has nothing to do with baptism. It relates to the reign of Antichrist and receiving the mark meaning that you worship and have an allegiance to Antichrist. Revelation clearly states that without the mark you cannot buy or sell so that proves it has nothing to do with baptism.
All believer’s will be raptured before this so it is a moot point. Only those living in the tribulation period need to be concerned about this.
Revelation 13:16,17 NIV
16He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.
Revelation 14:9,10 NIV
9A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, 10he, too, will drink of the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.
Revelation 16:2 NIV
2The first angel went and poured out his bowl on the land, and ugly and painful sores broke out on the people who had the mark of the beast and worshiped his image.
Revelation 20:4 NIV
They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands.
Abigail wrote: Hi Anne, I find what you write very interesting, to say the least. Could you please, explain the Baptism of Fire … Fire and water are two different elements. I would be interested in your perception. Thanks.
anne’s reply to Abigail: Hi, Abigail, thank you for your question. Seek first according to Mt 6:33a; Ro 1:16-25. Ask God for Wisdom and Understanding, Mt 7. Knock for the Living Bread, Lk 11; Jn 6. God’s Holy Spirit Baptism is entirely spiritual, Jn 4:4-26. There are 3 that testify and they agree because they are spiritual and from God: The Living Water from the Son of God, the Holy Blood of the Covenant and the Spirit of Charitos (Greek), Heb 10; 1Jn 5. The Water and Holy Blood cleanse and the Fire purifies, all spiritually. The use of the terms “Fire” and “Water” are physical descriptions of spiritual realities in the New Covenant. In the Old Covenant, the water and blood were combined to physically sprinkle the people to make them temporarily clean, Heb 1-10. Now, in the New Covenant, we are to be spiritually cleansed with the spiritual Water and spiritual Blood and also spiritually purified by the spiritual Fire of God’s Holy Spirit as silver and gold are physically purified of their impurities in fire, 1Pe 1. The Old Covenant was temporary, primarily to expose sin as utterly sinful and as a physical shadow of the spiritual realities to come, but the New Covenant is eternal, Ro 7-8; Heb 1-13.
God’s Living Water working through true Christians is clearly described in Jn 7:37-39. Is Jn 7:37-39 a description of the same Great Commission in Mt 28:18-20? Yes, it is. All true Christians will declare God’s critical Gospel Truth through God’s Power, especially about God’s Righteousness, His Righteous Requirements, His Gift of Righteousness and His Righteous Judgment, Jn 3:21. All of these Scriptures about Righteousness will point to Mt 6:33a. If we believe what we must find, when we seek first God’s Kingdom and God’s Righteousness and repent, then God has already washed us with His spiritual Living Water and the spiritual Holy Blood of the New Covenant, Mt 6:33a; Ro 1:16-25; 1Pe 1:2. When we have believed and repented and when we are willing to work for food from God that does not spoil by becoming bondservants of His Righteousness, then we will receive the Power from God which is like His Fire, like the tongues of Fire on the apostles at Pentecost, Jn 6; Ac 2; Ro 5-6; 1Co 1-2. The apostles’ tongues of Fire were temporarily visible but they were spiritual, just as angels were sometimes seen. True Christians need the help of God’s Power because all true Christians will be persecuted for Righteousness sake and for the Name that must be written in our foreheads, Mt 5-7; Rev 14.
Here is what other true Christians said about baptisms about 350 years ago. Notice what George Fox wrote about the Fire and Water!
QUAKERS, BARCLAY AND FOX, ON BAPTISMS AND WHO MUST BAPTIZE US!
Robert Barclay’s summary on baptisms from his “Apology for the True Christian Divinity”:
The Twelfth Proposition, Concerning Baptism: As there is “one Lord” and “one Faith”, so there is “one Baptism”, which is “not the putting away the filth of the flesh but the answer of a good conscience before God by the Resurrection of Jesus Christ!” And this Baptism is a pure and spiritual thing, to wit – the Baptism of the Spirit and Fire! By which we are buried with Him, that being washed and purged from our sins, we may “walk in newness of Life”. Of which the baptism of John was a figure, which was commanded for a time, and not to continue forever. As to the baptism of infants; it is a mere human tradition for which neither precept nor practice is to be found in all the Scripture.
George Fox on baptisms and the Holy One who must baptize us from “The People of God, in scorn called Quakers, their Love to all Mankind Asserted”:
So your directory and church faith, as you call it, may lie and mould for we understand according to sobriety. That as God hath dealt to every man the measure of Faith, His Gift, so he is to walk by, in which he pleases God through Christ Jesus. Whom all Christians must look unto, Jesus, who is the Author of their Faith and Finisher of it. Who is the Author of ours, Glory to God forever! And the wise man’s eye is in his Head, Christ Jesus, who is the Head of all. Who bruises the serpent’s head that led men from God and hath been between men and God. And he that doth this, leads man again to God, to wit – Christ, who is the True Baptizer. Who baptizes with Fire and with the Holy Spirit! Whose fan is in His hand and He will cleanse His floor, the floor of your hearts. And will gather His wheat into His garner but will burn up the chaff with unquenchable Fire. And they that know this Baptizer, to wit – Christ, are the true Christians and will never plead for the chaff, their body of death and sin to the grave. For when Christ sets Fire in your hearts and minds, that never shall be quenched till the chaff is burnt up. Such will not plead for the chaff but for Christ and His Baptism, which we own, and would have all people come to. For in the time of the Law, things were to pass through the fire and water, to be made clean. So you must pass through Christ’s Fire and Water, which purifies and washes, before you will be clean to enter into His Holy Kingdom and know His Baptism, as in Lk 3:16-17. For Simon Magus may go into the outward water and yet not come to Christ’s Baptism and think he can buy the Gift of God for money, which was judged by the apostle and by all that be in the same Spirit. And this is the one Baptism: “for by one Spirit we (the true Church) are all baptized into one Body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, bond or free, and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.” And for want of [the lack of] this Spirit’s baptizing of you and you drinking into it, there are so many bodies and sects in Christendom, and so many baptisms and ways. And so do not drink all into one Spirit, in which the unity and fellowship and the bond of the Prince of princes’ Peace is, which we say all true Christians are bound to keep. And then they will seek the good of all men and the Peace of all men. Let them be of several sects formerly, yet by one Spirit they are all baptized into one Body. As they come to the Spirit then they drink into one Spirit, then here is fellowship in the one Spirit, 1Co 12:13. So all Christians are to endeavour to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of Peace.
In God’s Peace as He defines Peace, not as man deceitfully defines peace,
anne robare / canawedding at aol dot com (Not read until 3 ½ years after learning and declaring the same exact original Gospel Truth as these true Christian Quakers did!)
The original Gospel of Truth as you call it was around way before any Quakers were.
This is the reason there are so many heresies and bad theology out there since people would rather follow a man and his concepts instead of the Bible and God.
There is great simplicity in the Gospel of Christ and it should be left that way.
I would have liked to discuss with you … but your answers are not straight forward,
And I do find your answers, long which makes them confusing.
I myself am more for directness.
I’ve read your answer three times now and still do not have a clear view of your perception.
No offense meant.
anne: In reply to Contender, i will precede my comments with my name – anne.
You are not saved based on water baptism but on faith in Christ. However, the New Testament clearly teaches water baptism of believer’s.
anne: Whose definition of faith? What did Paul write in Ro 1? In the Gospel there is a Righteousness from God that we must have Faith in and Paul was writing about Mt 6:33a. What, exactly, did you find? You haven’t because it is obvious. And, if “the New Testament clearly teaches water baptism of believer’s” as you say, then why are there all sorts of the different doctrines about baptisms? So, there is a problem with baptisms! When you do not begin where we were told to begin, then you will never understand the Scriptures, especially the baptism Scriptures. Tell me, Contender, when you received your baptism, were you filled with Wisdom from God? Could you read through Salvation Scriptures such as Romans, Galatians, Hebrews and understand them? No, i know you could not but with the one and only saving Baptism from God, you can.
John 4:1-3 NIV 1The Pharisees heard that Jesus was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John, 2although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples. 3When the Lord learned of this, he left Judea and went back once more to Galilee.
anne: This was discussed above in my previous post. At this time Jesus Christ had not started His earthly Ministry and this is the transition from John the Baptist’s ministry to Jesus Christ’s earthly Ministry. You really should go back and read my previous posts for the details.
Acts 2:38,39 NIV 38Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”
anne: Holy Spirit baptism only. There were no physical water baptisms in Ac 2, none, zero. The 3000 believing Jews called upon the Name of the Lord to be saved, the very same Name that must be in our foreheads, Rev 14. Also, read Ac 1-4 about the Name. And, what do we read in Ac 1:5? Who baptized with water? Who must baptize us with God’s Holy Spirit according to Mt 3; Mk 1; Lk 3; Jn 1; Ac 1; Ac 10-11?
Acts 2:40,41 NIV 40With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.
anne: Do you see “words”? Do you see “his message”? They believed and repented exactly as we were all told to do most clearly in Mk 1:14-15 but you have not. Keep reading: THE LORD ADDED TO THEM DAILY THOSE WHO WERE BEING SAVED! You are denying that Jesus Christ is the Lord exactly as many prophecies said people would do in the Last Days, 2Pe 1-3; Jde; etc.
Acts 8:11-13 NIV 11They followed him because he had amazed them for a long time with his magic. 12But when they believed Philip as he preached the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13Simon himself believed and was baptized. And he followed Philip everywhere, astonished by the great signs and miracles he saw.
anne: Were these people non-Jews? Yes, they were, also discussed in previous posts. Were they saved after Philip physically baptized them? No. Peter and John came, had to pray for them, had to lay hands on them and then they received the one and only saving Baptism of God’s Holy Spirit. Was this a transition from Judaism to Christianity in Ac 8; Ac 10-11? Yes, it was. Read my previous posts.
Acts 8:36 NIV 36As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, “Look, here is water. Why shouldn’t I be baptized?”[a]
anne: What happened to Philip? I could say a lot about this but where do we ever read of someone vanishing into thin air again? You cannot use this example in a million years! Oh, whose idea was it to be physically baptized? Where had he come from just before he met Philip? What were they reading? Read Isa 56 about that very same eunuch who was prophesied about 700 years before!
Acts 8:38,39 NIV 38And he gave orders to stop the chariot. Then both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water and Philip baptized him. 39When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord suddenly took Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him again, but went on his way rejoicing.
anne: So, here a man just vanishes into thin air and the eunuch doesn’t even look for him and he isn’t troubled about it at all? Wow! He went on his way rejoicing! And you think this can be an example for all future physical water baptisms? What happened to Philip? Where did he go? Didn’t Cornelius live there? Why did God send Peter to Cornelius when Peter was a few days away and Philip was right there? Contender, i could go into lots more detail but find out for yourself after you obey Mt 6:33a. If you don’t, then you will never understand what i say anyway.
Acts 9:17-19 NIV 17Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here—has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul’s eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized, 19and after taking some food, he regained his strength.
anne: Read Ac 9; Ac 22; Ac 26. Do you see “filled with the Holy Spirit”? This was the baptism Saul/Paul received, none other. He also called on the Name of the Lord as they did in Ac 2, the very same Name that must be in our foreheads but it will never be in the foreheads of anyone who has continued in the works of the flesh, Ro 8:5-8.
Acts 10:47,48 NIV Then Peter said, 47″Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.
anne: Read all of Ac 10-11. Why didn’t Peter mention this baptism when he went through all of the details in Ac 11? What did he say instead? Did he quote Jesus Christ? What did he say? And, then why did he say, WHO WAS I THAT I COULD OPPOSE GOD?! What had he heard in the vision? DO NOT CALL UNCOMMON OR UNCLEAN WHAT GOD HAS MADE CLEAN! Unless God makes us clean, we are not saved. And, what did Peter write in 2Pe 1? GOD’S DIVINE POWER HAS GIVEN US EVERYTHING WE NEED TO PARTICIPATE IN HIS DIVINE NATURE. When mere humans try to imitate God’s Divine Power with their physical rituals they have become an abomination to God, Lk 16:15-17. One baptism means one and only Jesus Christ is in full control of His Baptism, always, Eph 4. And, in Ac 11, what did the believing Jews learn about non-Jews? They are also saved through repentance and faith just as the repentant and believing Jews, Mk 1:14-15! Is God’s Faith seen or unseen, Heb 11?
Acts 18:7,8 NIV 7Then Paul left the synagogue and went next door to the house of Titius Justus, a worshiper of God. 8Crispus, the synagogue ruler, and his entire household believed in the Lord; and many of the Corinthians who heard him believed and were baptized.
anne: They believed, right? Who baptized them? God did. We don’t read that they repented but you can be sure that God, who alone sees inside hearts and minds, knew that they had repented, Mk 1:14-15. Tell me, what human can see inside hearts and minds to determine if someone is worthy of God’s Kingdom?
Acts 22:15,16 NIV 15You will be his witness to all men of what you have seen and heard. 16And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.’
anne: Yes, Saul/Paul also called on His Name, the very same Name that must be in our foreheads, Rev 14. You are clueless about how to call upon His Name and you will remain clueless until you begin where we were told to begin, in Mt 6:33a.
1 Corinthians 1:15-17 NIV 15so no one can say that you were baptized into my name. 16(Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else.) 17For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
anne: What! Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles said here plain as day that he was not sent to baptize but to preach the Gospel! What happens to true Christians when we preach the Gospel? Read Jn 7:37-39! And, where does that Living Water come from? Who is in full control of that Living Water? What is that Living Water? Isn’t this one of the 3 that testify? Also, what does John warn about those who call God a liar in 1Jn 5? And, what is this about being baptized into the name? Those who heard Paul were not baptized into his name because he declared the Word of God, he came in the Name that we must all call upon, the Name that must be in our foreheads, Rev 14. And, notice: “not with words of human wisdom”. So, at your baptism, were you filled with God’s Word? Did you receive Wisdom from God as Paul went on to explain in 1Co 1 and John wrote about in 1Jn 2? No? You still can’t read through Romans, Galatians and Hebrews and understand it all, right? Well, no Wisdom means no Righteousness, no Holiness and no Redemption either, 1Co 1.
This verse shows that believer’s were baptized but that their salvation does not depend on it. The gospel saves. Baptism is an outward sign of your commitment to Christ.
anne: What is it about “one Baptism” that you do not understand? Six times we read that John baptized with water but Jesus Christ baptizes with God’s Holy Spirit, Mt 3; Mk 1; Lk 3; Jn 1; Ac 1-2; Ac 10-11. Do you see two baptisms? One physical and one spiritual? Well, there must only be one Baptism and it must only be given by Jesus Christ Himself. Just because you have no idea how He baptizes does not mean anything because He must baptize us whether you understand it or not. And, don’t you understand the “sign of Jonah” in Mt 12; Mt 16; Lk 11-13? If you need a visible sign, according to the Son of God, then you are wicked and spiritually adulterous! If you cannot simply believe that He was in the heart of the earth for 3 days and nights, then He says you are wicked and evil because physical water had nothing to do with Him being in the heart of the earth.
Hebrews 6:1-3 NIV 1Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from acts that lead to death,[a] and of faith in God, 2instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment. 3And God permitting, we will do so.
anne: What have you been doing? Taking Scripture out of context, a deadly thing to do, 2Pe 3:15-16. Read in full context and see that God’s Gospel Truth about baptisms and Righteousness are among the critical basics of the Gospel. So, what did you find when you obeyed Mt 6:33a? You never did and until you do, you will never understand the baptism Scriptures, they will remain sealed to you no matter how smart you are. I have a free two page handout on Hebrews, email me and ask me for it. It proves that you are following a false gospel.
1 Peter 3:20-22 NIV 20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge[a] of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.
anne: Who got wet in the Great Flood and died? Who stayed dry and were saved? In the Red Sea, who got wet and died. Who stayed dry? What did the Great Flood and Red Sea symbolize? Remember the 3 that testify as i have already explained before. The wicked always got physically wet and died. Then we also read about 2000 or so demon filled pigs that ran into the water and died, Mk 5. What do you think that was about? The pigs of Mt 7 and 2Pe 2? Who are those pigs in 2Pe 2 that were washed and went right back into the mud of their sins? Who are the dogs? Read Php 3. Peter had been describing God’s one and only Holy Spirit Baptism in all of 1Pe 1-3. This Scripture in 1Pe 3 is not a physical baptism for physical flesh as he makes perfectly clear. And, if you think some physical water can cleanse your conscience, then you are committing blasphemy. And, tell me, where was the physical water at Jesus Christ’s Resurrection? I’d really like to know!
The mark of the beast has nothing to do with baptism. It relates to the reign of Antichrist and receiving the mark meaning that you worship and have an allegiance to Antichrist. Revelation clearly states that without the mark you cannot buy or sell so that proves it has nothing to do with baptism.
anne: You don’t even understand the very basics of Salvation and you think you understand The Revelation? The mark of the beast is physical water baptisms given by the hands of flesh to the flesh that can never please God, Ro 8-11. After the temple cleansing, that symbolized the horrific temple cleansing to come when Jesus Christ will visibly return, the unbelieving Jews questioned His authority. What did He ask them? JOHN’S BAPTISM, WAS IT FROM HEAVEN OR FROM MEN? Like those unbelieving Jews, you also haven’t believed John the Baptist and you also deny the authority of the Son of God, you have denied that He is the Sovereign Lord, Jde. Didn’t you read about my confirmations from Augustin’s writings? When he wrote about the deserter’s mark, wasn’t he discussing baptisms? What did he say about the heretics’ baptism? It is their condemnation, not their crown! You really ought to read the previous posts, very carefully, and i have more but they are lengthy. About anti-Christs: Many people expect one but 1900 or so years ago, the apostle John said there were many of them already! So, how can there be just one? Receiving a physical baptism from a heretic anti-Christ is your condemnation as Augustin also made plain as day. You do seriously err because you do not know the Scriptures and you do not have Wisdom from God. God’s Ways and God’s Thoughts are not like man’s and He said so, Isa 55. Do read Isa 55 because it is critical to understanding God’s one and only saving Baptism. And, true Christians do not serve God for money, ever, that is what the buying and selling is about but false Christians have turned false Christianity into a multi-billion dollar business! Today i read how one of those heretic anti-Christs has a 15,000 square foot home! Is that ridiculous or what? But that is typical for them. Some of these types even have bodyguards of all things! What did the real Jesus Christ say about those who love their lives on this earth and their money?
All believer’s will be raptured before this so it is a moot point. Only those living in the tribulation period need to be concerned about this.
anne: You are going to hear the real Lord Jesus Christ tell you that He never knew you before you are tossed where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth if you continue as is, Mt 7. You ought to be scared to death and that is a good thing since the fear of God remains the beginning of Wisdom and Understanding from God, Pr 1-9; Mt 10.
Revelation 13:16,17 NIV 16He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, 17so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.
anne: When the Lamb opened the seals, how did He do that as a Lamb? How can a Lamb with hoofs open seals on a scroll? The Revelation is highly symbolic. You don’t understand it because you do not have Wisdom from God. And, there have been many people who were forced to be physically baptized in the past or they would be mutilated and/or murdered by the false church. Also, what so-called church will consider anyone a legit member without going through their physical water baptism rituals? The Jews had their hand washing rituals, the false Christians have their foreheads get wet whether they are sprinkled or dunked. What must be in our foreheads according to Rev 14? How does God Name get in our forehead through some physical water ritual? I’d like to know! Come on, why don’t you tell me?
Revelation 14:9,10 NIV 9A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, 10he, too, will drink of the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.
anne: Yes, indeed, because they would not spiritually drink their spiritual Baptism as we read in Mk 10; 1Co 12:12-13.
Revelation 16:2 NIV 2The first angel went and poured out his bowl on the land, and ugly and painful sores broke out on the people who had the mark of the beast and worshiped his image.
anne: Yes, indeed, like Righteous Job although it was for his testing but here for the condemnation of false Christians. Why don’t you continue with this chapter? Why do the waters all turn into physical blood? Because false Christians refused to believe in God’s cleansing spiritual Blood of the New Covenant. How about the sun physically scorching people? Because they refused to believe in the Sun of Righteousness who is the Son of God! What about the darkness? They refused to love God’s Light of the World and they loved the darkness instead. And, what about that hail? How heavy is that hail? Massive! What is hail? Frozen water! Because false Christians refused to believe in God’s spiritual Living Water! And, about those frogs, don’t frogs start out as tadpoles, in the physical water? Contender, why do you and people like you fight against your own Salvation when someone is declaring WHY JESUS CHRIST IS THE LORD right in front of your very face?
Revelation 20:4 NIV They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands.
anne: The synagogues of Satan are the beasts as is made clear in my previous posts. False Christians have followed in the footsteps of the unbelieving Jews described in the Scriptures and all of you remain under the Law of Sin and Death, not the Law of the Spirit of Life. I have declared, repeatedly how to belong to the Law of the Spirit of Life but if you insist on remaining under the Law of Sin and Death, then that is where you will remain forever.
anne: Then Contender had this to say in another post:
The original Gospel of Truth as you call it was around way before any Quakers were. This is the reason there are so many heresies and bad theology out there since people would rather follow a man and his concepts instead of the Bible and God. There is great simplicity in the Gospel of Christ and it should be left that way.
anne: The seven churches of Rev 2-3 not only describe those churches of almost 2000 years ago but all future churches as well as the church ages. There were only 2 that Jesus Christ totally praised. The first, Smyrna, symbolized the earliest true Christians who included many believing Jews. The second, Philadelphia, symbolized the early true Christian Quakers. The description of the Philadelphia church fit them perfectly before some of them went on to found Philadelphia, USA! And, when Jesus Christ fed the multitudes, He also prophesied these 2 large groups of true Christians. Sad to say, the Quakers also fell apart after 2 or 3 generations. We have been in the Laodicean age for a number of years now. When Jesus Christ said only a few will be saved, few it is, Mt 7; Mt 22. Tell me, Contender, how do the few go through the narrow Gate to the narrow Road that leads to eternal Life? I have repeatedly said how and so have all true Christians of all time. What you failed to notice is that i learned what i did long before i read what the early true Christians wrote or what the early true Christian Quakers wrote but we all declare the same Gospel Truth and we all expose the very same heretics and anti-Christs. The exact original Gospel Truth i have declared comes straight from God as it must and so must His Baptism. It doesn’t get any more simple than “seek first”. “First” means “first”. So, what is your problem? “One Baptism” means “one Baptism”, not two, not 2, not 1 plus 1, not one for real and another for show. So, why can’t you accept what “first” means and what “one” means?
anne: Oh no, another post from Contender! Here is what he said this time and i will comment within his text preceded with my name as before:
Why does anyone have to contact you for God’s exact original Gospel Truth when it is clearly defined and laid out in the Bible?
anne: Is it? You are calling the Son of God a liar if you think so. He said critical Scriptures will remain hidden to those who claim to see when they cannot, Mt 13; Jn 9. It really is a very bad idea to call the Son of God a liar.
Do you think you have any superior knowledge that is not already contained in the scriptures?
anne: Like all other true Christians, i have been taught by God, Jn 6:45. Like all other true Christians, i receive my Words from the Son of God, Lk 21:15; Jn 15:1-17. Like all other true Christians, i have an anointing from God that has taught me, has given me Wisdom, Righteousness, Holiness and Redemption, all from God, 1Co 1; 1Jn 2. Like all true Christians, i am an ambassador for Christ through His Power, 2Co 2:14-7:1. Like all true Christians, i have “the Mind of Christ” and when you ignore or reject a true Christian, who have you really ignored or rejected, Lk 10:16; 1Co 2? I have the Greatest Teacher there is and you can never prove a true Christian is wrong because we can do nothing against the Truth and no lie comes from the Truth, ever, 2Co 13; 1Jn 2.
Matthew 6:33 is not the gospel of salvation. It is part of Jesus’ teaching on worrying over worldly things like the pagans do.
anne: Wrong. You have eyes that do not see and ears that do not hear. The entire Holy Bible is about God’s Righteousness, His Righteous Requirements, His Gift of Righteousness and His Righteous Judgment. He told us all to seek. Do you know what “seek” means? He said “first”. Do you know what “first” means? Well, if you know what is good for you, then you need to listen to the Son of God!
Matthew 6:25-34 NIV 25″Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more important than food, and the body more important than clothes? 26Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life[b]?
anne: Taking Scripture out of context is deadly as i have already mentioned, 2Pe 3:15-16. Is this part of the Sermon on the Mount? I will suggest that you read the entire first half of Matthew and the entire first half of Romans. That would be more in context. All of the Scriptures about Righteousness will point to Mt 6:33a. Until you have the Righteousness that is revealed in the Gospel, the Righteousness from God that we must have Faith in, you cannot be saved, ever, Ro 1:16-25.
28″And why do you worry about clothes? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. 29Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. 33But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. 34Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own.
anne: What are “all these things”? Just these last few verses? No, not at all! In Mt 5, how can you exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees? Was Saul/Paul a perfect Pharisee according to Php 3? Are you better than he was? No way. So, you have a most serious problem because if you do not find the Righteousness that is revealed in the Gospel, you will have to keep the entire OT Law and try to be more perfect than Saul/Paul was. Do you know what? You will never make it into God’s Kingdom that way, ever.
You said (Contender quotes from my previous post) “But heretics and anti-Christs believe in and practice physical baptisms, given by the hands of men, Gal 1-3:24; Col 1-3; etc”
Really? That is not what the Bible says. You are not saved by water baptism but nowhere in the Bible does it say that you are a heretic or antichrist by either having received or given a water baptism.
anne: Yes, that is “what the Bible says”. Why don’t you see it? Because you never did begin where we are supposed to begin, you remain blind, Jn 9. Read 1Co 10:1-6. Do you see a baptism mentioned? When were they baptized into Moses? In the “cloud and sea”? Well, they stayed dry! And, what about that spiritual drink and spiritual food? That was in the Old Covenant! Do you think now, in the spiritual eternal New Covenant, the food and drink become physical?! And, what is Scripture such as Mt 23; Mk 7 in the NT for? To see how bad the Jews were or as examples? You are just like them and what did the Son of God say about them that also applies to you? Who are those dogs and pigs of 2Pe 2? What “Water” don’t they have? In Jde, what are those clouds without “Water”? What “Water” don’t they have? Heretics and anti-Christs will never receive Living Water from the Son of God, ever. How are those clothes soiled in Jde? And, in Sardis, how did they defile their garments? Who justifies themselves before men in Lk 16:15-16? What is an abomination to God? And what is that about John the Baptist in that Scripture? It seems to me that you are probably a Baptist from what you wrote above here. When you were baptized in your physical water, did you think you were sharing in the death, burial and resurrection of the Son of God by going down into the physical water, being immersed with the forehead and then coming up as a sign of a new life? Where was the physical water at the cross except what came out of the side of God’s Son when He was speared? And, when Paul described the death, burial and resurrection as a baptism in Ro 6 he was describing God’s Holy Spirit baptism, never a physical water baptism, ever. Remember your very own quote from 1Co 1 where he said he was not sent to baptize but to preach! So, when you Baptists claim to be sharing in the death, burial and resurrection with your work of the flesh, you have changed the gospel into another gospel that is no gospel, Gal 1. Do you know that Baptists were prophesied in the Sardis church and you are dead according to God? And, in The Revelation we read how true Christians have washed their robes in the Holy Blood of the Son of God while you heretics and anti-Christs dunk people in swimming pools, horse troughs and all sorts of blasphemous places that mock the true Baptism from the Son of God Himself. And, in Scriptures such as 1Co 15, Paul said he died daily. If you want to physically copy Paul, then you will need to be physically baptized every single day! Contender, don’t you realize how foolish you are?
You said (Contender quotes from my previous post): “Do you know that almost every adult, who calls himself or herself a Christian, already has the Rev 13 “mark of the Beast”? Yes, this is true and it has been true for a very long time. Ask God for Wisdom to understand:”
You certainly didn’t get this idea from the Bible. First of all all believer’s in Christ will be raptured before the rule of antichrist. The mark of the beast hasn’t happened yet since it is related to the worship of antichrist.
anne: The mark of the beast has been around for almost the entire last 2000 years. Do you think God’s Gospel is going to be difficult when we are told to become like little children? The mark of the beast has been in everyone’s face in place sight and there will be no excuses. Even people who cannot read should wonder what some physical ritual done by mere human specks of dust has to do with God’s Divine Power from God the Father through Jesus Christ His Son. If you remain in the flesh, and you do with your baptism of the flesh, you can never please God and you will never be allowed into His Kingdom, Ro 8. Raptured? In your dreams. You aren’t even saved. You are exactly like the unbelieving Jews who refused God’s Righteousness and insist upon your own that will never make it, Ro 9-11.
The 144,000 refer to people from the 12 tribes of Israel, not the general public or gentiles.
anne: According to the Hebrew of Hebrews in Ro 2, who are the real Jews? What kind of circumcision do real Jews have? And, didn’t he also teach about that spiritual circumcision in Col 1-2 where a baptism is also mentioned? Why would he teach about a spiritual circumcision and a physical baptism? He didn’t! Both are spiritual and what he warned against in Galatians about continuing in the work of the flesh that is physical circumcisions also applies to all physical water baptisms, Gal 1-6. All, who continue with works of the flesh done by the flesh to the flesh, remain under the curse, the same curse of Jer 17, the very same curse that lasts until Rev 22.
1 Corinthians 9:13-15 NIV But we did not use this right. On the contrary, we put up with anything rather than hinder the gospel of Christ. 13Don’t you know that those who work in the temple get their food from the temple, and those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar? 14In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel. 15But I have not used any of these rights. And I am not writing this in the hope that you will do such things for me. I would rather die than have anyone deprive me of this boast.
1 Corinthians 9:17,18 NIV 17If I preach voluntarily, I have a reward; if not voluntarily, I am simply discharging the trust committed to me. 18What then is my reward? Just this: that in preaching the gospel I may offer it free of charge, and so not make use of my rights in preaching it.
anne: Out of context again! I will suggest that you read all of 1Co 1-16 and 2Co 1-13 and 1Th 1-5 and 2Th 1-3. What did they say they would accept, although Paul often didn’t even take this much? Food and clothes! And, Paul sold tents, not his letters! Wake up!
The gospel is in the Bible and it is simple. Believe and have faith in Christ for the redemption of your sins.
anne: Believe what? All kinds of so-called Christians claim to believe. You can claim to believe all you like but if it isn’t God’s definition of Faith, then you will end up in the Lake of Fire. What about those people who cry, “Lord! Lord!” only to hear the Son of God tell them, I NEVER KNEW YOU! DEPART FROM ME YOU WORKERS OF INIQUITY! They thought they were Christians, they did what they thought were wonders in His Name but He is going to toss them where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth! So, Contender, they thought they believed and it did them more harm than good. What is it that God wants us to believe? I’ll tell you: it is written in Mt 6:33a and Ro 1:16-25 most clearly.
Romans 1:16,17 NIV 16I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for the salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 17For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last,[a] just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”[b]
anne: Ahhh! Yes, here it is. Do you see “power of God”? Did you get this “power of God” through your phony physical baptism? It only comes through God’s Holy Spirit Baptism, Lk 24; Ac 1-2; 1Co 1. It is given to those who believe! Believe what? The Righteousness from God that is in the Gospel and this is what we must believe in. Where did Jesus Christ teach about this Righteousness? In many Scriptures but most clearly in Mt 6:33a. Do you know what “first” means? Do you know what “seek” means? If so, then what is your problem? Do you know that you are among those in these Last Days who have a mere form of godliness because you have denied this Power from God that can only be given through His one and only Holy Spirit Baptism by Jesus Christ Himself, 2Ti 3? Like so many others, you have surrounded yourself with teachers that teach exactly what your itchy ears want to hear, 2Ti 4. I have told you how to really begin to be saved with one simple command from the Son of God and you refuse you listen. You claim your gospel is simple but where do your so-called pastors receive their education and how many years must they spend in those false institutions of so-called higher learning? The early true Christians were often saved in minutes! And you false Christians go to expensive schools for years and then you have pew people sitting in those pews year after year, ever learning and knowing nothing. Well, something is terribly wrong! I have said what it is that is wrong but, exactly as prophesied, almost all of you with your mark of the beast refuse to listen.
1 Corinthians 15:1-3 NIV 1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. 3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,
anne: Yes, indeed. And Paul went on to say how the real Son of God is a Life giving Spirit but you deny it, 1Co 15. You have not held onto his Word that is the Word of God. God is Spirit and He is only seeking worshipers who will worship Him in Spirit and in Truth. None other need apply because they will be rejected, Jn 4:4-26. You have not taken a stand on what Paul taught because he never taught a physical baptism; it was always God’s one and only Holy Spirit baptism, always, Ac 18-19; 1Co 6; 1Co 12; Gal 3; Eph 4-5; etc. Therefore, you are following a false gospel and woe, woe, woe to you if you are teaching a false gospel, Gal 1.
Ephesians 1:12-14 NIV 12in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.
anne: Are you blind? Here Paul is describing God’s one and only Holy Spirit baptism in plain language. The true Christians “heard the Word of Truth” and only God’s Truth can set us free, Jn 8. They “believed” as we were all told to do in Mk 1:14-15. They believed and were “marked in Him” that is Jesus Christ, “with a seal”! Who gave this seal? God! What is the seal? “The Promised Holy Spirit!” Who gave it? And you claim some filthy physical water ritual has to be done in addition to this most incredible Holy Spirit Baptism by God through the Son of God?! If so, and no doubt you do, then you are a mocker, a scoffer, a blasphemer, a heretic and an anti-Christ for insulting the Almighty God and the Almighty Son of God! Your “mark” is the mark of the devil, Satan, who masquerades as an angel of Light but he isn’t and his servants masquerade as servants of Righteousness but they are not, 2Co 11. They sprinkle some physical water on people and make them think they now belong to God’s Kingdom, a horrific lie. Or, like you, they dunk them in some physical water and make them believe they have just shared in the death, burial and resurrection of the Son of God, another horrific lie. Remember how Satan spews out water after God’s people to carry them away! Rev 12.
2 Timothy 2:7-9 NIV 7Reflect on what I am saying, for the Lord will give you insight into all this.
anne: Who taught you, Contender? I have a handout of 4 very simple basic Gospel Truth questions that all true Christians can answer correctly immediately. You cannot. Email me for them and try to prove me wrong.
8Remember Jesus Christ, raised from the dead, descended from David. This is my gospel, 9for which I am suffering even to the point of being chained like a criminal. But God’s word is not chained.
anne: Yes, He was raised from the dead and where do you think He has been the last 1900 or so years? He only visibly left, never spiritually, and He is the one who has been and still is running His true Church, Mt 28; Mk 16; Jn 12-20; Rev 1-3. He is the True Baptizer as George Fox declared and as i declared long before i ever knew what George Fox wrote and Augustin declared the same thing and so will all true Christians declare that Jesus Christ must baptize us Himself. What does that make you?
Romans 10:8-10 NIV 8But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,”[a] that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: 9That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.
anne: Yes, Paul is writing about Jn 7:37-39 but not you. You have skipped critical Scriptures including the ones that condemn the unbelieving Jews because you have done exactly what they did. You have rejected God’s Righteousness and sought to establish your own and so you are self-condemned if you continue as is, Ro 10:3. And, you deny that Jesus Christ is the Lord. You deny it was Jesus Christ who added to the believers daily in Ac 2. You have rejected the Son of God. You have blasphemed His Divine Power that gives us everything we need to participate in His Divine Nature, 2Pe 1. Your futile attempt to imitate God’s Divine Power with your works of the flesh are blasphemy.
Romans 10:12-14 NIV 12For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”[a]
anne: Yes, indeed! This is what the 3000 God fearing Jews in Ac 2 did! THEY CALLED ON THE NAME OF THE LORD TO BE SAVED! And, this is what Saul/Paul did, HE CALLED ON THE NAME OF THE LORD TO BE SAVED, Ac 9; Ac 22; Ac 26. But you have no idea of how this is done. And, THIS IS THE NAME THAT MUST BE IN OUR FOREHEADS, Rev 14. THIS IS THE NAME WE MUST BE SPIRITUALLY BAPTIZED WITH AND IN ACCORDING TO MT 28. What do you physical water baptizers put there instead? The mark of the beast! Like the first heretics in Jn 6:66, you absolutely refuse to believe that God’s Word is Spirit and Gods’ Word is Life, Jn 6. How are we to be born again according to 1Pe 1; Jas 1? Were Peter and James contradicting Jesus Christ in Jn 3:1-21? No, but why not?
14How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?
anne: Absolutely! An answer to your comment above where you wondered why i am doing what i am doing. What is it that we must believe, exactly? You do not know. But, you have heard now in plain language. However, it has been in your face all of this time in the Scriptures, in plain sight. Everyone, who has access to the Scriptures, will not be excused. You can ignore what you have been told but you will pay for it forever in the Lake of Fire. God will not force anyone to believe, repent and obey. If you want to go on as is, that is your choice to make but you will hear the real Son of God tell you that He never knew you and you will be tossed where there is weeping, gnashing of teeth, where the fire does not go out and the worm does not die, Isa 66. That is your choice to make. God made His Gospel so simple that a child can understand it. He warned that He would turn worldly wisdom into foolishness and those who love it into fools and He has been doing that for a very long time. The mark of the beast is not something affecting a few people at the very end of time; it has been going on for almost the entire last 2000 years. When Peter, still a spiritual infant, still having in mind the things of men, still ready to deny his Lord, didn’t want Jesus Christ to wash his feet, what did he hear that was meant for all of us? IF I WASH THEE NOT, THOU HAST NO PART WITH ME! What did Peter say then? WASH … ALSO MY HANDS AND MY HEAD! A clue? You had better believe it! Spiritual infants are not allowed to remain spiritual infants, Mt 13; Eph 4; Heb 5-6. Until you have a robe from God waiting for you, spiritually washed whiter than snow in the Blood of the Lamb, you remain self-condemned and headed for the Lake of Fire. Is this what you want? This is what you will get for clinging to the mark of the beast that is the image beast, the second synagogue of Satan, that mutilated and murdered members of the last large group of true Christians prophesied in the OT and NT, called Quakers.
Hello Anne, I just replied to your insulting and accusatory post.
Remember, it is Satan who is the accuser of the brethren.
Based on your evil responses to me I have this to say:
1 John 4:7-9 NIV
7Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son[a] into the world that we might live through him.
1 John 4:19-21 NIV
19We love because he first loved us. 20If anyone says, “I love God,” yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. 21And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother.
And also this:
Revelation 12:9-11 NIV
9The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.
10Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say:
“Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God,
and the authority of his Christ.
For the accuser of our brothers,
who accuses them before our God day and night,
has been hurled down.
11They overcame him
by the blood of the Lamb
and by the word of their testimony;
they did not love their lives so much
as to shrink from death.
And now on to your insults and false accusations:
Insult: Tell me, Contender, when you received your baptism, were you filled with Wisdom from God? Could you read through Salvation Scriptures such as Romans, Galatians, Hebrews and understand them? No, i know you could not but with the one and only saving Baptism from God, you can.
Answer: I was not filled with Wisdom from God when I was baptized with water. I understand the salvation scriptures.
Insult: Do you see “words”? Do you see “his message”? They believed and repented exactly as we were all told to do most clearly in Mk 1:14-15 but you have not. Keep reading: THE LORD ADDED TO THEM DAILY THOSE WHO WERE BEING SAVED! You are denying that Jesus Christ is the Lord exactly as many prophecies said people would do in the Last Days, 2Pe 1-3; Jde; etc.
Answer: I believed and repented when I was 12 years old. I am confirming that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Saviour. Praise God!
Insult: Contender, i could go into lots more detail but find out for yourself after you obey Mt 6:33a. If you don’t, then you will never understand what i say anyway.
Answer: I already answered you regarding Matthew 6. You took that verse out of context. I understand what you are saying but it is not Biblical.
Insult: Tell me, what human can see inside hearts and minds to determine if someone is worthy of God’s Kingdom?
Answer: By the way you are talking to me it would seem that you can.
Insult: You are clueless about how to call upon His Name and you will remain clueless until you begin where we were told to begin, in Mt 6:33a.
Answer: I am not clueless. I know how to call upon Christ’s name to be saved. My salvation is found in Christ and him alone through faith.
Insult: So, at your baptism, were you filled with God’s Word? Did you receive Wisdom from God as Paul went on to explain in 1Co 1 and John wrote about in 1Jn 2? No? You still can’t read through Romans, Galatians and Hebrews and understand it all, right? Well, no Wisdom means no Righteousness, no Holiness and no Redemption either, 1Co 1.
Answer: I was not filled with God’s Word at my water Baptism. I am filled with God’s Word when I read the scriptures in the Bible. I ask God for wisdom and he gives it. I have the Holy Spirit inside of me to guide and teach me and to help me understand the Word of God. I do understand salvation. Christ is my redeemer. I cannot redeem myself.
Insult: If you need a visible sign, according to the Son of God, then you are wicked and spiritually adulterous!
Answer: I do not need a visible sign and you are taking that out of context.
Insult: What have you been doing? Taking Scripture out of context, a deadly thing to do, So, what did you find when you obeyed Mt 6:33a? You never did and until you do, you will never understand the baptism Scriptures, they will remain sealed to you no matter how smart you are. I have a free two page handout on Hebrews, email me and ask me for it. It proves that you are following a false gospel.
Answer: I didn’t take the scriptures out of context. You are doing yourself what you are accusing me of doing. I believe that is defined as hypocrisy. Does my intelligence threaten you in some way? It doesn’t matter how smart I am it is all about Christ and not about me. Everyone is saved the same way no matter how smart or dumb they are. I don’t want your free 2 page handout on Hebrews. I have the Bible and I can read Hebrews anytime I please. I am not following a false gospel but the gospel of Christ as defined in the scriptures.
Insult: And, if you think some physical water can cleanse your conscience, then you are committing blasphemy. And, tell me, where was the physical water at Jesus Christ’s Resurrection? I’d really like to know!
Answer: I never said that physical water can cleanse my conscience, you did. Only Christ can transform me from the inside and cleanse me. I did not commit any blasphemy.
Insult: You don’t even understand the very basics of Salvation and you think you understand The Revelation?
Answer: I understand the very basics of salvation. I understood by reading the scriptures. God revealed salvation to me by the Word of God. No one’s knowledge is perfect this side of heaven but regarding the mark of the beast in Revelation? You are in error.
Insult: Like those unbelieving Jews, you also haven’t believed John the Baptist and you also deny the authority of the Son of God, you have denied that He is the Sovereign Lord, Jde.
Answer: I am not a Jew. I am not an unbeliever. I know Christ has authority. I know that Christ is the Lord of Lords and King of Kings.
Insult: You do seriously err because you do not know the Scriptures and you do not have Wisdom from God.
Answer: I know a great deal about the scriptures but not all since no ones understanding is perfect this side of heaven. I ask God for wisdom and he helps me to understand through the Holy Spirit.
Insult: You are going to hear the real Lord Jesus Christ tell you that He never knew you before you are tossed where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth if you continue as is, Mt 7. You ought to be scared to death and that is a good thing since the fear of God remains the beginning of Wisdom and Understanding from God, Pr 1-9; Mt 10.
Answer: No, I’m not. I have been redeemed and the blood of Christ covers my sins. I am not scared since God does not give a spirit of fear. If it happens in my lifetime I look forward to the “Blessed Hope”, the rapture of the saints. If not, then when I die I will be with Christ and waiting for the resurrection.
Romans 8:1-3 NIV
1Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus,[a] 2because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law was powerless to do in that it was weakened by the sinful nature,[b] God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful man to be a sin offering.[c] And so he condemned sin in sinful man,[d]
Insult: When the Lamb opened the seals, how did He do that as a Lamb? How can a Lamb with hoofs open seals on a scroll? The Revelation is highly symbolic. You don’t understand it because you do not have Wisdom from God.
Answer: I understand it. The Lamb is the lamb which was slain for the sins of the world. The only Lamb worthy of opening the seals is Christ.
Revelation 5:2-10 NIV
2And I saw a mighty angel proclaiming in a loud voice, “Who is worthy to break the seals and open the scroll?” 3But no one in heaven or on earth or under the earth could open the scroll or even look inside it. 4I wept and wept because no one was found who was worthy to open the scroll or look inside. 5Then one of the elders said to me, “Do not weep! See, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has triumphed. He is able to open the scroll and its seven seals.”
6Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. He had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits[a] of God sent out into all the earth. 7He came and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne. 8And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints. 9And they sang a new song:
“You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slain,
and with your blood you purchased men for God
from every tribe and language and people and nation.
10You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to serve our God,
and they will reign on the earth.”
The Lion of the tribe of Judah is Christ. The Lamb is Christ who was slain for our redemption and his blood covers our sins. Christ is the last and final sacrifice for our sins. Christ is the passover lamb. We are saved through the blood of Christ.
Insult: Contender, why do you and people like you fight against your own Salvation when someone is declaring WHY JESUS CHRIST IS THE LORD right in front of your very face?
Answer: I am not fighting against my salvation since I have been redeemed by Christ. I know who Christ is.
Insult: I have declared, repeatedly how to belong to the Law of the Spirit of Life but if you insist on remaining under the Law of Sin and Death, then that is where you will remain forever.
Answer: “I have declared” reeks of pride. God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble. The Bible shows how to be saved and anyone can read it for themselves. I am under grace. I am not under the law since the law kills and grace saves. The gift of salvation I have received by grace and there is nothing I could do to earn it. My salvation is found in Christ, not in myself.
Insult: Tell me, Contender, how do the few go through the narrow Gate to the narrow Road that leads to eternal Life?
Answer: The narrow Gate is Christ. Christ is the only way to the Father. There is no other way to be saved except by Christ.
John 10:7-10 NIV
7Therefore Jesus said again, “I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep. 8All who ever came before me were thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. 9I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved.[a] He will come in and go out, and find pasture. 10The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.
Insult: Well, if you know what is good for you, then you need to listen to the Son of God!
Answer: I don’t sense any Christian love in this remark. Other than that I know I have been redeemed through Christ. Amen!
Insult: So, you have a most serious problem because if you do not find the Righteousness that is revealed in the Gospel, you will have to keep the entire OT Law and try to be more perfect than Saul/Paul was. Do you know what? You will never make it into God’s Kingdom that way, ever.
Answer: I found the salvation that is revealed in the Gospel. I do not have to keep the Old Testament Law since I have been saved by grace and am not under the law. I already know that I will never enter God’s Kingdom by trying to keep the law. Christ fulfilled the law. Christ has accomplished on the cross what I could never do myself. I have been saved by the blood of Christ which he sacrificed to pay for my sin debt because God loves me.
Insult: To see how bad the Jews were or as examples? You are just like them and what did the Son of God say about them that also applies to you? Who are those dogs and pigs
Answer: I’m not a Jew and I am not like them. It does not apply to me since I have been saved by grace. I am not a dog or a pig.
Romans 3:26-28 NIV
26he did it to demonstrate his justice at the present time, so as to be just and the one who justifies those who have faith in Jesus.
27Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. 28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law.
Insult: It seems to me that you are probably a Baptist from what you wrote above here. When you were baptized in your physical water, did you think you were sharing in the death, burial and resurrection of the Son of God by going down into the physical water, being immersed with the forehead and then coming up as a sign of a new life?
Answer: You assumed wrong. I am not a Baptist. I was water baptized way after I became saved. I did it as a public acknowledgment of my commitment to Christ.
Insult: So, when you Baptists claim to be sharing in the death, burial and resurrection with your work of the flesh, you have changed the gospel into another gospel that is no gospel, Gal 1. Do you know that Baptists were prophesied in the Sardis church and you are dead according to God? And, in The Revelation we read how true Christians have washed their robes in the Holy Blood of the Son of God while you heretics and anti-Christs dunk people in swimming pools, horse troughs and all sorts of blasphemous places that mock the true Baptism from the Son of God Himself.
Answer: I’m not a heretic and your tirades are getting boring.
Insult: And, in Scriptures such as 1Co 15, Paul said he died daily. If you want to physically copy Paul, then you will need to be physically baptized every single day! Contender, don’t you realize how foolish you are?
Answer: You took 1 Corinthians 15 out of context. It is talking about Paul being in danger of death daily. This has absolutely nothing to do with baptism. I’m not the one who is being foolish.
1 Corinthians 15:30,31 NIV
30And as for us, why do we endanger ourselves every hour? 31I die every day—I mean that, brothers—just as surely as I glory over you in Christ Jesus our Lord.
1 Corinthians 15:30,31 NLT
30 And why should we ourselves risk our lives hour by hour? 31 For I swear, dear brothers and sisters, that I face death daily. This is as certain as my pride in what Christ Jesus our Lord has done in you.
Romans 8:36 NIV
36As it is written:
“For your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”
Insult: Raptured? In your dreams. You aren’t even saved. You are exactly like the unbelieving Jews who refused God’s Righteousness and insist upon your own that will never make it, Ro 9-11.
Answer: I look forward to the “Blessed Hope”, that of the rapture of the saints if it happens in my lifetime. I am saved and rest in my salvation that comes through faith in Christ. I don’t have any righteousness of my own.
Romans 1:17 NIV
17For in the gospel a righteousness from God is revealed, a righteousness that is by faith from first to last,[a] just as it is written: “The righteous will live by faith.”[b]
Romans 3:21-23 NIV
21But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. 22This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, 23for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Romans 4:4-7 NIV
4Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. 5However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness. 6David says the same thing when he speaks of the blessedness of the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works:
7″Blessed are they
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
Romans 4:23-25 NIV
23The words “it was credited to him” were written not for him alone, 24but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. 25He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.
Romans 10:3,4 NIV
3Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.
2 Corinthians 5:21 NIV
21God made him who had no sin to be sin[a] for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
Philippians 3:9 NIV
that I may gain Christ 9and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God and is by faith.
Insult: Did you get this “power of God” through your phony physical baptism?
Answer: I’m not even going to answer this stupid question.
Insult: Do you know that you are among those in these Last Days who have a mere form of godliness because you have denied this Power from God that can only be given through His one and only Holy Spirit Baptism by Jesus Christ Himself
Answer: You certainly are not talking about me. Perhaps you are talking about yourself.
Insult: I have told you how to really begin to be saved with one simple command from the Son of God and you refuse you listen. You claim your gospel is simple but where do your so-called pastors receive their education and how many years must they spend in those false institutions of so-called higher learning?
Answer: I already know how to be saved. I don’t need you to tell me. I have a Bible. As for theological seminaries? I have no idea. Never been to one. I’m sure some are better than others. There is nothing wrong with education as long as it is in agreement with the scriptures.
Insult: And you false Christians go to expensive schools for years and then you have pew people sitting in those pews year after year, ever learning and knowing nothing. Well, something is terribly wrong! I have said what it is that is wrong but, exactly as prophesied, almost all of you with your mark of the beast refuse to listen.
Answer: I’m not a false Christian. I never went to a theological seminary. I don’t have the mark of the beast. I have been saved by the blood of Christ and my name is written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.
Insult: Therefore, you are following a false gospel and woe, woe, woe to you if you are teaching a false gospel,
Answer: I’m not following a false gospel. I don’t teach a false gospel. I present the gospel as it appears in the scriptures.
Insult: “with a seal”! Who gave this seal? God! What is the seal? “The Promised Holy Spirit!” Who gave it? And you claim some filthy physical water ritual has to be done in addition to this most incredible Holy Spirit Baptism by God through the Son of God?! If so, and no doubt you do, then you are a mocker, a scoffer, a blasphemer, a heretic and an anti-Christ for insulting the Almighty God and the Almighty Son of God!
Answer: When you are saved you are sealed with the Holy Spirit. I never said that water baptism saves you. You are the one who is accusing me of such. I’m not a heretic, mocker, scoffer, blasphemer, heretic or whatever other insulting name you want to attach to me.
Insult: Your “mark” is the mark of the devil, Satan, who masquerades as an angel of Light but he isn’t and his servants masquerade as servants of Righteousness but they are not, 2Co 11. They sprinkle some physical water on people and make them think they now belong to God’s Kingdom, a horrific lie.
Answer: I do not have the mark of the Devil.
Insult: Or, like you, they dunk them in some physical water and make them believe they have just shared in the death, burial and resurrection of the Son of God, another horrific lie.
Answer: I don’t dunk anybody or make anyone believe anything contrary to the Bible.
Insult: Who taught you, Contender? I have a handout of 4 very simple basic Gospel Truth questions that all true Christians can answer correctly immediately. You cannot. Email me for them and try to prove me wrong.
Answer: Why do you ask? Nobody taught me. I read the Bible. I’m sure you have a handout of 4 very simple basic Gospel Truth questions that all true Christians can answer correctly immediately. But, why are you telling me this? I can read the Bible anytime I want and all I need to know is in the scriptures. I’m not emailing you for anything and I don’t have to prove you wrong. The scriptures can do that.
Insult: What does that make you?
Answer: I am a believer in Christ.
Insult: You have rejected God’s Righteousness and sought to establish your own and so you are self-condemned if you continue as is, Ro 10:3. And, you deny that Jesus Christ is the Lord. You deny it was Jesus Christ who added to the believers daily in Ac 2. You have rejected the Son of God. You have blasphemed His Divine Power that gives us everything we need to participate in His Divine Nature, 2Pe 1. Your futile attempt to imitate God’s Divine Power with your works of the flesh are blasphemy.
Answer: I don’t have any righteousness of my own and I readily admit that. I publicly proclaim that Jesus Christ is my Lord and Saviour. I do not put any trust in works of the flesh. My redemption comes solely from Christ in his death and resurrection.
Insult: HE CALLED ON THE NAME OF THE LORD TO BE SAVED, Ac 9; Ac 22; Ac 26. But you have no idea of how this is done. And, THIS IS THE NAME THAT MUST BE IN OUR FOREHEADS, Rev 14. THIS IS THE NAME WE MUST BE SPIRITUALLY BAPTIZED WITH AND IN ACCORDING TO MT 28. What do you physical water baptizers put there instead? The mark of the beast! Like the first heretics
Answer: I already know how to be saved. You are taking Revelation 14 out of context. It is referring to the remnant out of the twelve tribes of Israel not the general public as can be proven without a doubt by the scriptures below.
Revelation 14:1-5 NIV
1Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads. 2And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. 3And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. 4These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. 5No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.
Revelation 7:1-8 NIV
1After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth to prevent any wind from blowing on the land or on the sea or on any tree. 2Then I saw another angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea: 3″Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a seal on the foreheads of the servants of our God.” 4Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.
5From the tribe of Judah 12,000 were sealed,
from the tribe of Reuben 12,000,
from the tribe of Gad 12,000,
6from the tribe of Asher 12,000,
from the tribe of Naphtali 12,000,
from the tribe of Manasseh 12,000,
7from the tribe of Simeon 12,000,
from the tribe of Levi 12,000,
from the tribe of Issachar 12,000,
8from the tribe of Zebulun 12,000,
from the tribe of Joseph 12,000,
from the tribe of Benjamin 12,000.
Insult: What is it that we must believe, exactly? You do not know. But, you have heard now in plain language. However, it has been in your face all of this time in the Scriptures, in plain sight. Everyone, who has access to the Scriptures, will not be excused. You can ignore what you have been told but you will pay for it forever in the Lake of Fire. God will not force anyone to believe, repent and obey. If you want to go on as is, that is your choice to make but you will hear the real Son of God tell you that He never knew you and you will be tossed where there is weeping, gnashing of teeth, where the fire does not go out and the worm does not die, Isa 66. That is your choice to make. God made His Gospel so simple that a child can understand it.
Answer: I already stated based on what the Bible says how you are saved so I’m not repeating myself here. I’m not going to the Lake of Fire since my name is written in the Lamb’s Book of Life.
Insult: Until you have a robe from God waiting for you, spiritually washed whiter than snow in the Blood of the Lamb, you remain self-condemned and headed for the Lake of Fire. Is this what you want? This is what you will get for clinging to the mark of the beast that is the image beast, the second synagogue of Satan, that mutilated and murdered members of the last large group of true Christians prophesied in the OT and NT, called Quakers.
Answer: I’m not condemned so quit letting Satan use you to attack me.
Ephesians 6:11-13 NIV
11Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.
2 Timothy 3:15-17 NIV
15and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
Note from Marianne to both Contender and Anne
The real Lord Jesus Christ said: Jn 7:24. “Judge not according to appearance but judge Righteous Judgment.” I obey Him and this is the only kind of Judgment from me, as we are commanded to do.
You people have heard the most important information of your entire lives and you want to gripe about a little space? Contender is a false Christian who likes being false. He was proven false for his own good so he may turn and really be saved. But, it appears that he does not want to be saved. So be it.
James wrote: Jas 19. “My brethren, if any among you err from the Truth and one convert him, 20. let him know, that he who converteth a sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death and shall cover a multitude of sins!” What is the Truth? You have seen it before your very eyes. If you don’t believe me, that is your choice to make.
Paul wrote: Tus 3:10.”A factious man after a first and second admonition refuse, 11. knowing that such a one is perverted and sinneth, being self-condemned.”
What i have posted here already is much more than sufficient. The real Lord Jesus Christ said, Jn 8:47. “He that is of God, heareth the Words of God. For this cause ye hear them not: because ye are not of God.”
Anne. I did a little research and you have been condemning and pushing your anti-baptism message, etc all over the internet. I have no problem with that if what you are saying is true but you are going around condemning people that very well could be true believers in Christ. That is not right and does not show the love of Christ.
Are you still attacking me? I am not a false Christian. And I’m a she not a he. I am already saved but I guess you didn’t read that or understand. You need to be careful when you so unmercifully judge others wrongly. You just may have made yourself out to be a hypocrite but let God be the judge of that. You cannot judge people’s hearts since only God knows what lies therein.
I was saved a long time ago and have been a believer in Christ for over 30 years. You are condemning me yet the Bible says that there is therefore no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus. I know that God loves me. I commune with Christ daily and have a personal relationship with him. I have the Holy Spirit within me that testifies that I belong to Christ.
I hear the Word of God as it is presented in the Bible. I do not accept bad theology and twisted thinking. I follow Christ not George Fox. I don’t agree with Christian Mysticism or Quakerism which is connected to the French Prophets.
The New Testament clearly teaches water baptism for believer’s whether you like it or not. The early church practiced water baptism. The Didache, “The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles.” regarding baptism.
Chapter 7 — Concerning Baptism
And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living water. But if you have no living water, baptize into other water; and if you cannot do so in cold water, do so in warm. But if you have neither, pour out water three times upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whoever else can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before.
If you don’t wish to be water baptized then that is your choice but it is not right to condemn believer’s that have been baptized.
Other than that I would like you to know that God is a God of love and mercy. That is why he sent is Son to earth to pay the sin penalty on your behalf. God showed his love for you and me by sacrificing his Son on the cross. If you have faith and believe in Christ for your redemption then your sins are covered by his blood. Isn’t that a great love that God would provide a way out of condemnation through his Son, Jesus?
I would hope that you can understand the God of love and that all believers may not agree on every single doctrinal issue not pertaining to salvation but that we have all been saved just the same by the blood of Christ.
Why did i get Contender’s notice after i blocked all further notices? Contender, didn’t you read my last entry? You are clueless as to God’s definition of Love as you are clueless as to His definition of Faith and you are clueless as to His one and only saving Holy Spirit Baptism. OK, so you are a she but no matter, i have tried to tell you how to really be saved but you insist that you already are. So be it, that is your choice to make but you will end up in the Lake of Fire for following a false gospel. All true Christians were commanded to expose the fruitless deeds of darkness and you have seen it take place. All true Christians will try to snatch false Christians from the flames and you have seen it take place. However, you just insist upon running into the pit! Seek first means seek first. One Baptism means one Baptism! And, i have lots more proof that you are dead wrong but i refuse to waste my time if you are not listening and your are not. And, you are clueless that some of the early writings were tampered with as is obvious from the choices you made above. And, i state the facts. You people are all already self-condemned for following false gospels that are repeatedly described in the OT and NT. You say you were saved at 12? Impossible! True Christians all have the Faith of Abraham and a 12 year old in no way is able to have that Faith, Ro 4. You are wrong. You will find out when you hear the real Son of God tell you that He never knew you. You are not listening so i am done with this site.
Okay Anne. I tried to be nice to you but this is the limit. You can insult me and condemn me all you want. It doesn’t matter because I am covered by the blood of Christ.
How do you say it is impossible to be saved at 12? Come on now. I converted by reading the scriptures and having faith in Christ for the forgiveness of my sins. It’s in the Bible how to be saved.
I’m starting to think that you are a part of some kind of cult that is tampering with your mind. I hope that is not so but if it is, heaven help you.
The love of God eludes you, unfortunately.
Contender, do not be frustrated.
She is right in one thing. If you do not have the spirit of Christ then you are not one of His. However I really wonder where she got the idea that water baptism ended with the beginning of Jesus’ ministry. It is just a testimony to the faith that is in you. Nothing more and nothing less.
Jesus did not correct that otherwise Philip would not have baptized the Ethiopian.
What did Jesus say?
KJV Mark 10:14 But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
KJV Matthew 11:25 ¶ At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
There are always people who want to make the simple truth of the Gospel difficult so that they can boast about their “wisdom”.
Anne,
I am the one who blocks comments here. I have graciously allowed all to discuss their views.
I have just asked that it be done in a positive way, without critical or unloving remarks.
I was saved at 7 years old, which is a most innocent, and pure time to know God best.
Jesus even said that unless we come as a child to the kingdom, we will not enter. A child is the most qualified one to enter into salvation, more than adults, because it’s intentions are pure.
The greatest evidence of salvation is the fruit of the spirit, not doctrinal debates, although they are interesting intellectually.
And the greatest fruit is LOVE.
Love is kind, love is patient, love is longsuffering, etc.
I know I am entering into this late but hey I just found it. I have a minister who is bereft of the Holy Spirit or at least his understanding of it. The Lord had me speak to him as well as write him a letter. (5 pages ouch) Remind you of anyone in this posting? lol However, in my defense I covered several topics. My point is Anne is most obviously a prophet. Prophets have always had a hard time because they speak in truths and truths are hard. It is a task to speak the words our Lord gives us in a loving way because often the purpose is for chastening and believe me He gives them to us hard. People are confused as to what it means to love their brother as themselves. Some use it as an excuse to not speak the truth or make decisions about Gods Holy Word in their life. They often are the same people who are clueless about our responsibility to judge. Prophets should learn over time to remove the bluntness which comes across as rude and judgmental of motives and temper their words. Other times it is necessary to be somewhat harsh. I would rather not be labeled a fanatic but I speak the Words the Lord gives me where and when He tells me to. It was Jesus who said, “Woe to you, when all men speak well of you, for so their fathers did to the false prophets” (luke6:26) I would rather be persecuted and.. “Remember the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you; if they kept my word, they will keep yours also. But they will do all these things to you on account of my name, because they do not know him who sent me”. (John15:21) In other words they do not have God’s Holy Spirit within themselves. We use the spiritual gifts the Father gives us with faith knowing it operates in the spirit and we do not always “see” results. We swing the sword and allow God to do the rest. We trust and we know that though we have individuality we do not act as individuals. We need each other. You are strong where I am weak and so we work together and depend on each other because We are One Church, One Body, We Are The Body of Christ.
Well said, Michelle. Only now and then do we find another who understands the position of a prophet. (I’m speaking of the prophets that speak the truth no matter what, NOT the ones who stand before crowds seeking fame.) It is an isolated and lonely life. Seldom do we run across each other for companionship. We know others are out there speaking the truth too, but we seldom hear of them. It is encouraging to hear your voice. DavWms
hi Michelle,
Thank you for your comments. I hope all who have a “sword to swing” feel welcome here. God bless you.
Wow, here is somebody very fanatic, aggressive and hateful…
Disgusting…
Truely and obviously NO follower of the GREATEST law our saviour gave us.
Not- at the very moment at least.
Nontheless, this person wants to be a judge…
Unbelievable.
Silvan
Remember what i said about love. If we jump in and behave the same, are we a good witness for what we, ourselves, preach as the gospel?
god bless you
Thank you for the blessings you sending, i need them!
You are right, iam not just pointing out sin – iam insulting the very person, loved by our Lord Jesus.
.
Iam sorry, Anne.
Your behaviour is just very negative, and makes me sad..
and angry. i must admit.
You simply cant deny many many thousnads of newborn brethren the salvation. If some teaching is such exclusive as yours, than it cant be right. I know what iam speaking of, i was in a church whos teachings are exclusive. Not possible. Sister Contender is absolutely sure and feels the holy holy spirit and cleanness and peace and the communion and personal relationship with the beloved and great and holy holy creator of everyone from this earth, and even earth and the galaxies.
Begin to love and repent and have some quite and close intimate time him. You will see, all this pressure to convince or persuade someone else will disappear!
Silvan
Marianne, I want to compliment you for the way you handled this. I dont know if I could have been as humble and loving as you are. I am glad there is one God, and one Judge.
Cash to become extinct as chips take off
Anthony Keane
The Sydney Advertiser
Friday, June 19, 2009
CASH is accelerating down the path to extinction as new technologies threaten to mark the end of loose change within a decade.
Bank and credit union bosses say cash won’t be alone, with wallets and credit cards also likely to disappear too.
They told The Advertiser’s round table forum that cash and cards will be replaced by computer chips embedded in mobile phones, watches or other portable devices.
Australian Central chief executive Peter Evers believes cash will be replaced for most transactions in five-to-seven years.
“Cash will disappear as there will be other forms of carrying cash, stored value in your phone or whatever it might be. It will transfer automatically,” he said.
“We’re very close in countries around the world. If you go in to Hong Kong or Singapore, the low-value transactions have already disappeared. You can’t go anywhere, like on public transport, without pre-purchasing a card.
“I think the Australian Payment Systems Board is very much on top of it and is trying to move down a path, but hasn’t publicly put things into place yet.”
Full article here
http://www.news.com.au/technology/story/0,28348,25637102-5014239,00.html
… BankSA general manager strategy and operations Chris Ward expects Australia to follow the offshore lead, with small cash transactions disappearing first.
“So you can’t go and buy a bottle of water from the deli with cash; you’ve got to go and buy it WITH YOUR CHIP,” he said. (emphasis mine)
hi silvam
the chip seems to right on time, and in line with the prophetic time line. It will be an interesting development to watch.
hi silvan
the chip seems to right on time, and in line with the prophetic time line. It will be an interesting development to watch.
Maybe time to fill up your larder.
Interesting bill coming up!
HR 2749 would impose an annual registration fee of $500 on any “facility” that holds, processes, or manufactures food. Although “farms” are exempt, the agency has defined “farm” narrowly. And people making foods such as lacto-fermented vegetables, cheeses, or breads would be required to register and pay the fee, which could drive beginning and small producers out of business during difficult economic times.
* HR 2749 would empower FDA to regulate how crops are raised and harvested. It puts the federal government right on the farm, dictating to our farmers.
* HR 2749 would give FDA the power to order a quarantine of a geographic area, including “prohibiting or restricting the movement of food or of any vehicle being used or that has been used to transport or hold such food within the geographic area.” Under this provision, farmers markets and local food sources could be shut down, even if they are not the source of the contamination. The agency can halt all movement of all food in a geographic area.
* HR 2749 would empower FDA to make random warrantless searches of the business records of small farmers and local food producers, without any evidence whatsoever that there has been a violation. Even farmers selling direct to consumers would have to provide the federal government with records on where they buy supplies, how they raise their crops, and a list of customers.
* HR 2749 charges the Secretary of Health and Human Services with establishing a tracing system for food. Each “person who produces, manufactures, processes, packs, transports, or holds such food” would have to “maintain the full pedigree of the origin and previous distribution history of the food,” and “establish and maintain a system for tracing the food that is interoperable with the systems established and maintained by other such persons.” The bill does not explain how far the traceback will extend or how it will be done for multi-ingredient foods. With all these ambiguities, it’s far from clear how much it will cost either the farmers or the taxpayers.
* HR 2749 creates severe criminal and civil penalties, including prison terms of up to 10 years and/or fines of up to $100,000 for each violation for individuals.
In germany (rsp EU) its very similar.
“Codex Alimentarius” comes 01/01/10.
This UN-Law, also called “Food dictatorship” brings total control of foodsupply.
Moresome, all food will be radiated, genmanipulated, all meat has a dosis of antibiotica.
But vitamins are forbidden, even IN the food.
Because they are considered as toxic….
Also this very interesting and a cornerstone of the NWO:
Move to hand privately-owned Federal Reserve complete regulatory power over entire U.S. economy heralds new form of government
Obama Regulatory Reform Plan Officially Establishes Banking Dictatorship In United States 180609top2
Paul Joseph Watson & Steve Watson
Prison Planet.com
Thursday, June 18, 2009
President Obama’s plan to give the privately-owned and unaccountable Federal Reserve complete regulatory oversight across the entire U.S. economy, which is likely to be enacted before the end of the year, will officially herald the beginning of a new form of government in the United States – an ultra-powerful banking dictatorship controlled by a small gaggle of shadowy and corrupt elitists.
The new rules would see the Fed given the authority to “regulate” any company whose activity it believes could threaten the economy and the markets.
This goes a step further than the centrally planned economies of the Soviet Union or Communist China, in that the Federal Reserve is not even accountable to the U.S. government, it is a private entity that according to former Fed chairman Alan Greenspan, is accountable to nobody but the banking families that own it.
Obama’s regulatory “reform” plan is nothing less than a green light for the complete and total takeover of the United States by a private banking cartel that will usurp the power of existing regulatory bodies, who are now being blamed for the financial crisis in order that their status can be abolished and their roles handed over to the all-powerful Fed.
According to an Associated Press report today, Democratic leaders have committed to enacting the plan before the end of the year and Republicans in both the House and Senate have indicated that they won’t stand in the way of the overhaul.
“The final plan….is expected to sidestep most jurisdictional disputes and simply impose across the board standards to be applied by all financial regulators, according to administration and industry sources, ” reports the Washington Times.
In other words, the Fed, which is already totally unaccountable to Congress, is to be placed in complete control of the entirety of the U.S. financial system, to do as it wishes without repercussion.
As the LA Times reports, the government, in conjunction with the private Federal Reserve, would effectively have the clout to simply seize and take over any company it desires.
In order to appease those opposed to the plan, such as Sen. Christopher J. Dodd, chairman of the Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs, the Obama administration has agreed to create a “watchdog” council of regulators to “advise the Fed”.
However, as former chairman Alan Greenspan has most recently pointed out, given that the Fed is an independent entity, and therefore accountable to no one, it will have the power to simply reject and overrule any advice it is offered.
Pointing out the flagrant conflict of interest in empowering the Federal Reserve to essentially regulate itself, Professor of public affairs at the University of Texas at Austin Robert Auerbach writes, “The Federal Reserve has massive conflicts of interest that make it ill suited for its present regulatory functions and certainly for an expanded regulatory reach. The officials leading the Fed today preside over an organization that is run in substantial part by the bankers they regulate. Bank regulation begins at its 12 district Federal Reserve Banks, each governed by a nine-member board of directors, two-thirds of whom are elected by the bankers in the district.”
As economic author Nomi Prins highlights, Obama’s plan does nothing whatsoever to fix the excesses of financial institutions blamed for the financial collapse, it only ensures their continued operation and an expansion of the practices that contributed to the economic crisis in the first place.
“The ’sweeping overhaul’ of the financial system detailed by Geithner on behalf of the Obama administration does not overhaul the system at all,” writes Prins, “giving the Fed a bigger role, creating a ‘council of regulators’ to oversee the existing oversight bodies and allowing the biggest Wall Street players to maintain their status, leaves the system intact.”
“The Federal Reserve is not a fully public entity. It has amassed a set of $7.87 trillion worth of facilities and other entities through which it has lavished cheap loans in return for questionable collateral from the banking system. It has kept the true nature of these transactions a secret despite numerous FOIA requests. And, it has actively promoted the creation of bigger institutions in a chaotic environment, rather than putting the brakes on the creation of these giants,” concludes Prins.
Proof that the agenda of implementing overt financial dictatorship is being carefully coordinated can be seen in the fact that an almost identical scheme is also being set up in the United Kingdom, where “The governor of the Bank of England has called for greater powers to allow it to fulfil its new role of promoting financial stability,” according to a BBC report.
Just as in the U.S., King is calling for traditional independent regulatory bodies to be all but abolished and replaced by the Bank of England itself, which just like the Federal Reserve is a private outfit with no accountability to the government whatsoever.
(ARTICLE CONTINUES BELOW)
Obama Regulatory Reform Plan Officially Establishes Banking Dictatorship In United States 250509BANNER
The mainstream media, for the most part, has reported the oversight plan as a much needed regulatory crackdown on those responsible for the financial crisis. However, the details of the plan constitute almost exactly what lobbyists for leading bankers have been pushing for over the past few weeks.
“All derivatives contracts will be subject to regulation and all derivatives dealers subject to supervision,” Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner said at a Time Warner Economic Summit in New York on Monday, also noting “When you have too many people involved, there’s an accountability problem.”
As we reported earlier this month, heads of nine of the biggest banks in the derivatives market, including JP Morgan Chase, Goldman Sachs, Citigroup and Bank of America, secretly lobbied to keep derivatives under Federal Reserve “oversight” and away from real scrutiny.
As reported by The New York Times, they all met secretly to discuss how to use the lax regulation and institutional secrecy of the NY Fed to shield their credit-default swaps business from prying eyes and attempts at regulation.
The banks formed a lobby– the CDS Dealers Consortium– only weeks after accepting TARP funds in October 2008 to protect its interests. Heading this effort was Edward Rosen, who previously helped fend off derivatives regulation. Rosen wrote and circulated a “confidential memo” to the Treasury Department and leaders on Capital Hill, making their agenda clear, the Times reported.
Rosen and his backers propose that derivatives be “traded in privately managed clearinghouses, with less disclosure,” according to the Times. The clearinghouse of choice for the big banks in Rosen’s CDS Consortium is ICE U.S. Trust, which is in turned regulated only by the Federal Reserve system.
So the upshot of all this is that the bankers get what they want, are allowed to carry on as they were, while at the same time the fractional reserve banking system and the federal government are both greatly expanded and empowered, and the compliant corporate media ludicrously tells us that a strict crackdown is underway.
This kind of activity is exactly what some leading representatives have warned of in recent weeks.
A fortnight ago, the Democratic Chairman of the Agriculture Committee, Collin Peterson, announced to the press that “The banks run the place,” in reference to the US Congress.
While Peterson is also pushing for legislation to regulate derivatives trading, his proposed bill would limit derivatives trading to public exchanges, rather than private clearinghouses, which are managed by banks.
Peterson’s warning mirrors that of Democratic Senator Dick Durbin, who just a few weeks before uttered the same rarely acknowledged truth.
“And the banks — hard to believe in a time when we’re facing a banking crisis that many of the banks created — are still the most powerful lobby on Capitol Hill. And they frankly own the place,” Durbin said.
How simultaneously dangerous and ridiculous it is that the Federal Reserve is given more authority to oversee the economy. This is the same privately run entity that refused to comply with congressional demands for transparency and disclose the destination of trillions dollars in bailout funds. It is the same privately owned entity that has withheld internal memos, in spite of freedom of information act requests. It is the same private entity, run for the most part by European banking elites, that has arrogantly refused to tell Senators and Congressmen which banks were in receipt of government loans.
The government is ready to hand over everything to a monolithic private corporation and a gaggle of bastard banker offspring, that have gobbled up an amount close to the entire GDP of the country in taxpayers’ money and figuratively stuck the middle finger up regarding questions over where that money has gone.
It can be no more apparent than at this time that legislation to audit, repeal and eventually end the Federal Reserve, must be supported by Americans if they want to see their children and their grandchildren grow up without indentured debt and entrenched servitude to a fascistic marriage of private banks and hugely inflated government.
In Great Britain exactly the same happens in the moment…
Everything is planned.
hi Silvan
I wonder what the banks are going to use for money. We don’t have any.
😀 right
..because of them..
They have enough wealth, their goal is total control and power.
Their father is Satan. Jesus refused what he had to offer. The price was too high. There are people who do whatever it takes to get these worldly possessions and authority. However they do not see the price tag. In the end they will exchange eternal life for a “pot of red beans” like Esau did.
Just a thought… What if the world governments got together with a plan. They would agree that all past monetary systems will become defunct on a certain day. On that day, there would be a certain amount of new “money” applied to every human being’s account. There would be no gold or other backing needed. This new “money” would have a value only because the administrators says it has. It would be electronic money.
Of course, this new money would soon become available only by computer use, as perfect identification would be needed for each transaction. Sooner or later, this would require a computer chip imbedded in each recipient of this money. Any one without this chip would be ineligible to either buy or sell.
This of course, would be a temptation for all alive to accept this chip and the “money” that goes with it. Each citizen would get a percent, and each business would get a larger amount, depending on their importance to “progress.” Another advantage to this is that it would be very hard for thieves to operate, as records would convict them. Many “good” reasons to accept the mark of the beast. Like I said, just a thought. DavWms
Revelation 3:20 20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Anne, in order to be saved you will have to realize the hopelessness to be righteous before God without Jesus Christ.
So, when you open the door, you will receive the spirit of Christ.
You will be reborn of the Spirit. Good works will follow your repentance. The water baptism is a sign that you have been buried with Christ and that you will rise again.
That is all there is to the water baptism. If anyone makes more to it, he is deceiving himself.
The mark of the beast is clearly connected with the worship of the image. To say, the mark of the beast is the water baptism is without biblical support. Even if the disciples baptized before Jesus began His ministry, He certainly would not have allowed it if the baptism were the mark. He never repudiated the water baptism.
By the way, are you a Gnostic?
Hi GYOD
I agree. Water baptism is part of the great commission, to preach the gospel, and to baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Jesus was talking about water. Holy Spirit fire baptism would have to be done by the Holy Spirit himself.
Hi gyod, i have had fire baptism, my new birth, without having an adult water baptism by any institution.
I was baptized as a baby in an exclusive church.
…which is not biblical and does not count of course
A correction, Marianne …
The Holy Spirit is one baptism.
And Fire is another baptism.
The one occurred at Pentecost and the other is reserved for the end times.
And the Fire baptism is given by The Father.
that is what I meant 🙂
Just a thought to ponder.
Revelation was penned at roughly 90AD.
Rev.1:19. Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter;
…That means, John was to record the things that (a)ARE and which (b)SHALL BE hereafter [90AD?]
Rev.4:1. After this I looked, and, behold, a door [was] opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard [was] as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will show thee things which must be hereafter.
…Thus, from Chapter 4 and the REST of Revelation, has to be AFTER the time John recorded the future MARK of the “Beast” of Revelation 13!
How then could the “MARK” have been issued BEFORE 90AD?
hi Olaf,
What “mark” in the discussion are you referring to? the “mark” of water baptism proposed by anne? I am just checking. If, so, that would be a good point.
Olaf, good point indeed. Why is it called “Mark of the beast”?
Because it is administered by the beast and not by a water baptism. Some say that worshiping on Sunday instead of Saturday, which is the real sabbath is the mark of the beast. Well, how do you detect that so you won’t be able to buy or sell?
Hi Gyod,
This is believed by those who have the view that the Papacy is the “Beast,” and that the Papacy was responsible for the changing of the day of worship from the Seventh day to the First day, as quoted in the earlier Catechisms. They (SDA & Armstrong) link the SUM Total of the value of letters of the words that the Pope’s Mitre has inscribed on it, being in Latin – Vicarivs Fillii Dei. [Vicar of the Son of God] V=5, i=1, c=100, etc.
If you ADD the ROMAN NUMERALS of that name, it comes to 666.
It is the Seventh Day Adventists and the followers of Herbert.W.Armstrong (formerly, the Radio Church of God) who believed in that theory. I do not believe in that theory, as I could do the same with the word “Computer” by having the letters of the alphabet increase by doubling the value of the letters from A to Z. eg. A=1, B=2, C=4, D=8, E=16, and so forth.
Revelation 13:18. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number [is] Six hundred threescore [and] six.
…Notice the verse says COUNT the NUMBER, it does not say ADD the NUMBERS.
Revelation also states Rev.22:18. For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
…That verse uses the word ADD, so the concept of ADDING was certainly in use at the time of John’s recording.
I have traveled all over Europe and several places in Asia, but the likelihood of introducing a “Sunday Law” as these two sects believe to be introduced, is highly unlikely. The trend is more likely to go for 7 days-a-week trading, except in places like Italy, so the “WHOLE WORLD” receiving the “Mark” of a Sunday law is not a logical conclusion.
The whole concept of a “SABBATH” has been disrupted with the fact that the World has a 12 o’clock midnight day change, whereas God works on a Sunset-to-Sunset day. Not only that, the International Date Line is East of New Zealand, whereas in Jesus’ time, the day started at sunset at Jerusalem.
The Mark OF the Beast is what the Beast ISSUES to everyone on the planet. It is not the BEAST’S number.
As of July the 1st 2009, the City Council where I live, has made it compulsory to register and MICRO-CHIP all domesticated animals, whether it be in the City or on rural properties. There is only ONE exception, and that is “working dogs”, on rural properties do not need to be registered.
The “BEAST” is the FIGURE given in Daniel and Revelation for a power that is granted sovereign authority, eg. a Nation.
I am lead to believe that the “Beast” that reigns SUPREME over the whole Globe is the United Nations, with the 7-heads (G7) and the 10-horns (10 World Trade Centers). The “head” of one of these 10 horns, was the 9/11 Trade Center which has the “deadly wound” as portrayed in Rev.18:8. Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong [is] the Lord God who judgeth her.
9. And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,
10. Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.
11. And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:
…Notice MERCHANTS are to do with TRADING (World TRADE Center).
There is also the “Lamb-Like” Beast [Harmless in appearance] is the U.N.’s IMF and World Bank.
Rev.13:3. And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.
It is this WOUNDED Beast that will again resume operation in a new location, which will have the Computer Network to implement the “Marking” of everyone on earth.
Rev.13:11. And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12. And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
…So it appears that the WOUNDED Beast is the one that is going to be “Worshiped”.
Marianne enlightened me to the fact that in May, 2009, the “WOUNDED” World Trade Center has resumed Business in North Carolina at “Triangle Park”.
hi Olaf
I think they have branches of the World Trade Center in all or most of the American states now. I few I checked are in the cities Boston, Dallas, New Orleans, NYC (again), Norfolk, Raleigh, then also Delaware, Alaska, Florida…..I did not check further.
They also have branches in other countries like Germany, which was opened in 1996, and is supposed to be one of 300 centers.
Apparently , it has 316 members in 91 countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worldwide_world_trade_center
Olaf,
You might want to rethink your rejection of the Sabbath theory.
After much study and thought on this matter I have come to the conclusion that the mark will have nothing to do with electronic banking. I don’t believe God cares how we spend our money. He DOES care whether we keep his laws and commandments. After all he sent Israel into Babylonian slavery for disobeying his sabbath. I’m sure he was pissed when the Romans forced early Christians to hold their services on the Roman’s holy SUN-god DAY and to accept many other pagan practices and holidays like Ishtar (Easter) and Saturnalia (Christmas). These practices were handed down from the ancient BABYLON MYSTERY religion practiced by the Phillistines among others whom God hated.
These pagan practices still ingrained in the Catholic church (and others) are what will be destroyed when Christ returns – not a country representing a modern version of ancient Babylon.
By the way, the Pope has already proposed mandatory Sunday rest day including blue laws that prevent buying or selling on that day. It won’t be long before Sunday worship also becomes mandatory. (Give it 20 years or so).
Anyway, I’m going with the odds. You may have noticed that not a single blogger here other than myself believes in the sabbath theory. Scripture says that the whole world (which I believe only refers to the Christian world) will be fooled by the beast (church) and take the mark. Most estimates I’ve heard place it at around 95% in reality. Only a small remnant of believers will be saved. Look around people. You chippers are the huge majority. And you already have the mark, so you won’t even need to be fooled into taking it – you will accept it without knowing what it is. A slam-dunk for Satan and the Antichrist.
I suggest you keep an open mind in the near future. You only have a 1-in-20 chance of getting it right!
Study, pray and keep the commandments of God and you will be OK.
this is a comment for the article about the “chips’ in cell phones and etc etc…. so I mean how are we supposed to get around not accepting that? like if I go and buy a cell phone am i suppose to ask them to take the chip out?
Hi jack
chips and bar codes are already with us. it is the WORSHIP of the beast by taking the chip on the body that will be wrong.
I just renewed my passport….they stuck a chip in it….
In regard of your passport …
I have found a footage on you tube worth watching …
There is actually a series of three films but I will paste only the second one …
Its’ title is ‘The Mark of The beast
Brain chips and wireless.’
I am sorry …
this is the link I wanted to submit.
Hi M
I am actually busy with an article on this topic which I will send to you hen I’m done.
You are quite right, Mark = a sign of obedience and allegience.
The number 666 is associated with a number of a name and to understand this you will have to understand how Gematria works, where every letter has a numerical value.It is amazing especially when you start experimenting with words yourself.
Here’s the link
http://www.asis.com/users/stag/englishg.html
Blessings
Bee
You may want to take a look here
Pardon me for being blunt. Using Code or whatever anyone calls it to find names who have 6 6 6 … I tested mine and end up having 6 and 6 and 6.. from full middle and last name.
If people are looking for such thing like that then it is a matter of ” lack in faith “… because it can cause making people’s hearts feeling like it is breaking if they discovered they have the similar … Is that worth it ? No..
But it is very good example tho. Except I do not buy into whole code thing on people’s names. But can be done with letters or any stores or such.. maybe more insightful ways.. rather than eh.. names… We most are not aware of it. Sorry if I sound a wee bit sensitive where people hearts lays.. I know how some things can wound them deep when they are so eager and looking forward to learn about God or such.. it can be very critical moments for most who wants to be saved..
Big hugs to you and all.. Forgive me for being honest.. considering on others. Because I am among the unlearned ones with very sensitive heart. 🙂
hi Tamera
I do not think this puzzle was meant to be solved, using numerology. It has a deeper meaning that we all need to think about.
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You said: The criteria for GETTING that mark is the “Worshiping” aspect.
That is only one part of it. The word of God states that the false prophet “forces” everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave to receive a mark on his right hand or forehead. The way in which the false prophet does the forcing is not physically, but by making all the other methods of purchasing obsolete leaving only the mark to be able to make purchases, pay bills, buy gas and food, etc. This will force people of that time to make the decision to receive the mark and be doomed to the lake of fire or to deny it and take their stand for Christ and the word of God and thereby become the enemy of the false christ and the world. Better to be the enemy of the false christ and the world then to be the enemy of God.The mark of the beast is not observing the sabbath on Sunday. Neither does right hand = doing or forehead = thought. Neither is it to be designated poetic, symbolic or hyperbole. Furthermore, the symbolism found in the book of Revelation is revealed within the same book or in other old or new testament passages. The problem that we have with many people today is that they symbolize what is to be taken literally and thereby, take away from the word of God.
hi dmcal52
Thanks for the input. Your interpretation is probably the most popular one out there for the “mark.”
dmcal52
I guess it depends on how you look at it. If you look around, there is definitely a falling away taking place now. Churches are full of false doctrines, and fake preachers, and some even deny Christ and collaborate with Muslims and New Age. In many countries, Christians are already being persecuted for their faith. So for them, it is already the time of tribulation. Other countries, more democratic, have less of this pattern.
Comment transferred from above for more space:
While it is true that many words have different symbolic meanings, the term Woman in prophecy is always meant to represent a church. In this case it represents the true apostolic church that existed before the romans infiltrated the church. It was forced to flee from catholic oppression for 3-1/2 PROPHETIC years or 1260 actual years – the same duration of the first beast – the holy roman empire. Now the true church is alive and well and waiting for her bridegroom. It is hard to find because it is only a small remnant but Christ will find it when he returns. And his laws will be written in their minds and on their foreheads just as they were to Moses and his people when they were first delivered on tablets of stone.
Did your church change them?
James Giordano said this on November 17, 2009 at 9:38 pm
James
I think “woman” could either refer to Israel, as in the OT, a religious-political system, as in Mystery Babylon, or the Church (Bride), or a false church.
The time of Jacob’s trouble (ie Israel) was prophesied in Daniel to be 3 1/2 years. We expect much of the church body to be around at that time as well.
what was Jacob’s trouble?
3 1/2 years of tribulation.
http://www.watchmanbiblestudy.com/biblestudies/Definitions/Def_JacobsTrouble.htm
3 1/2 years of tribulation.
http://www.watchmanbiblestudy.com/biblestudies/Definitions/Def_JacobsTrouble.htm
–
that does not answer my question marianne,
What WAS Jacob’s trouble? Think, my friend.
We are speaking in past tense. 🙂
Hi James! We have clues galore to tell us that the woman of Rev 12 is in fact Israel. That is why can’t figure out why people continue to identify her as the church. The church will have been resurrected and caught up prior to that last seven year period. The Greek word “Ekklesia”, translated “Church” is used from Revelation chapter one thru the end of chapter three and then the word disappears! The next event that happens is John hears a voice that sound like a [trumpet], that says [come up here] and I will show you what must take place after this. There are three clues here. At the end of Rev 3, the word church is no longer used, it’s missing. The next time anyone who is referred to as belonging to Christ is the word “Hagios”, translated “Saint.” Also, John says that he hears a voice that sounds like a [trumpet] speaking to him, which I believe is synonymous with the [trumpet call of God] found in Paul’s description of the resurrection and catching away found in(1 Thes.4:13-18; 1 Cor.15:51-52). What I am saying is that in Rev. 4:1, when John is caught up, he is in representation of the church being caught up, which would put the church being resurrected and caught up prior to the seals being opened. These clues that God put in His word are to give us understanding of when these things would take place. Why would the voice John hears sound like a trumpet? God is pointing us to I Thes 4:13-18 to that trumpet call. Then you have to ask the question of why the word “Ekklesia/Church” which is used over and over in Rev 1-3, then suddenly vanishes? In fact, Ekklesia is the very last word in chapter three. Then the next thing you have is that voice that sounds like a trumpet saying “Come up here”, which is exactly what happens to us when the resurrection and catching away takes place.
Well, if you are right about the use of “Woman” after Chapter 3 then the second woman must also be a people, nation or tribe. So who do you think she represents, the citizens of Rome? Italy maybe?
As for the early rapture of the church, I don’t buy it. I used to until I read all the references carefully and came to realize it is all just wishful thinking. Sad but true, we will all have to go thru the tribulation in order to be tested – we won’t get a free pass. Like Job, Jonah, Noah, Daniel and most biblical figures, we will be tested for our faith. That is why it is critical that we recognize the true mark of the beast. Think about it – if all believers get a free pass, the mark would be a moot point since only the unrighteous would be left anyway.
And getting back to the woman of rev 12, do you understand that the child she delivers is Jesus Christ? V5: He was to rule all nations with a rod of iron and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
This is clearly Jesus and not the nation of Israel or the 144,000. She is giving birth to Christianity – a church that will persecuted by the devil, and by the beast power for 1260 years (prophetic days). It is no coincidence that the woman is protected for the exact length of time that the first beast (the holy roman empire) is in power.
Note in 12:17 the dragon makes war with the remnant of her seed (those not martyred by the roman church) which keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. This totally eliminates the Jews or Israel from the picture. Her seed is not only Christians but unlike the other churches, they keep the commandments of God, which if you were to ask John includes the Saturday sabbath.
I believe that this little remnant church will be the bride of Christ. It is no coincidence that today, the number of true sabbath-keepers is very small, almost considered a cult by many Christians. And when they claim that the mark will be about the commandments they are often ridiculed, yet obedience to the commandments is all over revelation, if you pay attention.
Speaking of paying attention, I believe you are at a great disadvantage here due to your long history of studying prophecy. I have discovered that many older preachers and evangelists and lay people as well learned much of what they know a long time ago from a source they deem to be reliable. (Face it, no-one just picks up a bible and gets it right off the bat). The problem is that they are so sure they have it right they are no longer open to new ideas. (Set in their ways is a term that comes to mind). I come from a science and engineering background and we are used to completely tossing out old theories when a better explanation is discovered. (Plate tectonics was one for me). After 25 years of simply believing my sources about the early rapture I finally decided to read all the verses they were using to prove it and discovered it was totally bogus, Dude. This was about 2 months ago. So believe me when I tell you I read your explanations with an open mind, just looking for a new truth, but I did not find one.
As usual when I read the entire text, not just your excerpts, I find too many verses that do not jive with your theory. If you find you must ignore parts of scripture to prove your theory then maybe you should re-evaluate it.
Anyway, it works well for me so I thought I would pass it on. I guess we will all find out when the Antichrist arrives. If we’re still here you may want to give it some more thought.
So until then…
Blog on!
I have studied revelation chapter 12 in more detail with an open mind and here is what I have come up with in regard to the woman:
It seems that this chapter is very controversial but let me take a crack at it.
The woman starts out as a real woman giving birth to Jesus Christ. We know it is Him because he will rule all nations with an iron rod and ascended into heaven to his throne. When that happens, Satan and his fallen angels are finally cast out of heaven forever and are now stuck unhappily here on earth. (Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and the sea!) Now that the devil is cast down he persecutes the woman who now represents people – either Israel or a church. Now here is the clincher – “The great red dragon has 7 heads and ten horns with 7 crowns upon his head.” This is the exact same description of the first beast in chapter 13. This beast represents the Holy Roman Empire and of course the Roman catholic church. One reason we know this is the “power given to him to continue 42 months.” This comes to 1260 prophetic years (1 day = 1 year} the exact duration of the Holy Roman Empire (538-1898). During this time the church takes on pagan roman practices and beliefs (I’ve read over 50 of them) and becomes a blasphemous church. It also persecutes many people who don’t go along with church doctrine (the inquisition etc.)
But there are small groups – remnants from the true apostolic churches who manage to hide out and keep the faith and avoid the wrath of the roman church (Wrath of Satan). So here is the connection: the woman is now these remnant churches. How can we be sure? Look at the time frame for her “fly into the wilderness” –
rev12-14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
Guess what – this time frame = 1+2+1/2 (3-1/2) years and once again in prophetic years it comes to 1260 years – exactly the same as the first beast.
Now, just so we know that she does not represent Israel or its people we have verse 17:
“And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.”
So her seed have the testimony of Jesus, so they are not Jews but Christians. And they keep the commandments of God, unlike the roman church who deleted the second commandment and changed the fourth from Saturday to Sunday (the pagan Roman’s day to worship their sun god.)
This means that this chapter is history, not future – it does not take place during the tribulation. We know this because the very next chapter describes the beast we know is the Holy Roman Empire, also in the past. In fact these two chapters occur concurrently as we know by the time frames.
I believe this small remnant of true apostolic worship will be the bride of Christ when he returns. The whore of Babylon (the RC Church) and her harlot offspring (SUNday worshipping Protestant churches) will be “fallen” and the final church will be like the church at Philadelphia, praised by Jesus in Rev chapter 3.
So I guess we will have to get used to going to church on Saturday, and oh yeah – Christmas (Saturnalia – Saturn was a roman god)) will have to go as will Easter (Ishtar – dates back to Babylon), Valentines day (Cupid was a roman god) etc, etc.
Oh well, enjoy it while it lasts folks.
Hi James
So it is the church who goes through the tribulation, not Israel?
My assumption was that much of the church would do this, but Israel would also be included in this, since Israel would be saved by the end of it, due to the 144000 witnesses, and of course, the appearance of Jesus at the end of it. So Israel would be part of the “remnant church” that fled to the wilderness. The wild olive branch and the grafted in branch would be united by then
I know the Roman view is popular, but look also at the description of the beast in Rev 13.
The beast is mainly that of a leopard, which is Greece, according to Daniel. It has the feet of a bear, which is Persia (Iran), and the mouth of a lion (Babylon empire).
It also had teeth of iron (Rome)
This beast is MORE than Rome. It encompasses all these empires, which are today mostly Islamic.
First, it is the church (all of them) that will be tested in the tribulation. No free pass by an early rapture – that only occurs when Christ descends to the earth. Some will take the marl of the beast and others will not. That is the test.
Israel also goes thru the trib and must learn that their messiah is soon to come and his name is Jesus. The witnesses will take care of that. By the time he returns most Jews will be properly Christianized and part of the remnant church and the bride of Christ.
As for the first beast of rev13, John is describing how the beast is part roman, part greek, part Persian and part Babylonian. What he is getting at is the fact that the church of the holy roman empire has been mixed with pagan practices from all the previous empires, especially Babylon which started most of them and were passed down to all the future conquerers. (Babylon Mystery religion). It is these pagan practices that are the blasphemies mentioned over and over. The geographical locations of the empires and the fact that they later became Islamic have nothing to do with the story John is trying to tell. He is simply continuing where Daniel left off. The Roman empire of Daniel became the Holy Roman empire of Rev13. That is proven by history. But what happened after the Holy Roman empire was ended by Napoleon (the fatal blow)? All that was left was the Vatican church, which was restored to a “kingdom” in 1929
as a city-state with a world-wide presence. That is the second beast or the 6th king. The 7th king is the revived roman empire – the EU. The 8th kingdom will be a revived Holy roman empire when the Vatican and the EU merge, perhaps to combat a threat of Islamic take-over. And note that it is “of the 7th” – just more holy.
And as I’ve said, the woman (whore) is the pagan-stained vatican church-system. It all has to go. It was blasphemous during the original HRE and it will be just as bad in the new HRE.
Do you see how simple the prophecy is? There is no need to complicate it by jumping around the map looking for new enemies. Its all about Christianity, not Islam. Jesus does not care about false religions, they are not his people. The bible was written for us Christians. We need to get our act together and stop worrying about everyone else. I hope this makes sense to you. Once I realized this everything became clear and simple. Look into your own church. The enemy is within.
hi james
One of the primary mindsets of the beast is to destroy Israel, and the remnant. So you think the roman catholic church is going to attack Israel, and try to kill all the Jews and christians? What is the RCC going to use for weapons?
Hi again! I know this is for James, but it is Satan through the beast who are going to try to destroy Israel, but since God protects her for that last 3 1/2 years, it won’t matter what type of weaponry they have. When God writes something, it will happen and therfore, Israel will be cared for. We see that Isrel will be saved out of it in the place where Jacob’s trouble is mentioned in Jeremiah 30:7.
“How awful that day will be! None will be like it. It will be a time of troublel for Jacob, but he will be saved out of it.”
This is that same time of trouble that Jesus spoke of when in Mt.24 when he said when they see the abomination of desolation sitting in the holy place, then flee to the wilderness. Those who are in the field, don’t go back to get your cloak, don’t return to your house. Get out of there! How awful it will be for pregnant woman and nursing mothers. The reason he says this is because they are going to have to flee from Jerusalem immediately, which is that desolation that is caused by the abomination that will be set up in the holy place. Though not mentioned by name, the abomination of desolation is also mentioned in Rev 13:14-15)and gives us some more details regarding this image.
Hi Marianne! As I told James, no, the church will not go though the tribulation, because through the entire tribulation period God will be pouring out his wrath upon the unbelieving world, which is why he is going to remove the church first. The wrath of God is different from normal persecution by men and the powers of darkness, in that, God himself is pouring out his anger on a Christ rejecting world. When you have a mind to, please go to my blog site and read my post tiled “The Resurrection and Catching Away” as it will explain in detail all of the whys and howcomes to this controversial question, also backed up with scripture to validate my claim. Let me know what you think. If you can’t get to my blog, just do a search on the title.
Hello Abigail! The question should be “when will Jacob’s trouble be?” The time of trouble for Jacob (Israel) that is spoken of starts at the middle of that future last seven years and is initiated when the abomination of desolation is set up in the temple. This causes the desolation of Jersalem and Israel flees to the wilderness (Mt.24:15-28; Rev 12:13-16). The beginning of the seven year period up to the middle is the time when they will be saying “Peace and Safety” (2 Thes.5:3)then, sudden destruction comes upon them. The sudden destruction is the setting up of that abomination in the temple (Dan 12:11; Rev 13:14-15). This is when the antichrist shows his true colors. And because he sets up that image in the holy place the Jews will then know that he in not their true messiah and flee to the wilderness (the desolation)and will be cared for by God for that last 3 1/2 years.
Well if you don’t know what Jacob’s trouble was then you don’t know what Jacob’s trouble is therefore why you think of the question ‘when’,??
Amazing! I just gave you scripture verses and an explanation of what and when Jacob’s trouble is and you completely ignored it. Jacob’s (Israel) trouble has not yet taken place. This is the time period that Jesus spoke of when he said. “For then there will be great distress, unequaled fromt beginning of the world until now — and never to be equaled again. If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.” (Matthew 24:21-22). This is yet future as we have not yet seen the beast or his abomination. Please, at least take time to read the references that I am giving you as they are 37 years of study in the word of God. Don’t just pass over them because you already have a preconceived idea from someone elses teaching about the subjects of God. Be like the Bereans who searched the scriptures daily to see if what Paul was telling them was the truth.
Hello … I did read all that you wrote and it is you who is not thinking.
37 yrs of gentile teaching has taught you nothing.
I am saying to you to understand something you must go to its source.
Jacob’s trouble started in the womb. And if you don’t understand that, then I will certainly not add any more to this post.
And my teacher is God.
Abigail
That is not what he meant. The term “Jacob’s trouble” has always referred to the future time when ISrael goes through its final and greatest tribulation.
Jacob’s personal history pales in comparison. Jacob had a relatively mild life, except for his cheating Esau out of the birthright.
There were “2 nations warring in his mother’s womb,” at the time, but that is nothing compared to what will happen in the near future.
There will be a lot more than Esau to deal with at that time. The entire world will turn against Israel.
I hope you understand that Esau sold his birthright.
The selling of Esau’s birthright has nothing to do with Israel’s trouble.
Correction, I meant thank you Marianne for clearing that up!
The studying that I was speaking is my own personal study. I did not learn from anyone else.
Jacob always had to run away from Esau and that is a fact … This time Jacob will have to meet his brother.
Thank you Abigail, I total agree with what you just said and In fact,I thought that was what I said.
Hi James,
Your wrote:
“Sad but true, we will all have to go thru the tribulation in order to be tested – we won’t get a free pass. Like Job, Jonah, Noah, Daniel and most biblical figures, we will be tested for our faith.”
First of all, I have a very open mind when it comes to the word of God, because I want to be accurate, which is what makes me zealous for the accuracy of the meaning of the word of God. You obviously haven’t done a thourough study as you say in regards to the resurrection and catching away. If you had, you would know that there is a big difference between tribulation meted out by men and the powers of darkness compared to the wrath of God. God is not going to send his church through His time of wrath, which is the main theme of the tribulation period. This is known as the “Day of the Lord” and also as the “wrath of God” as well as the “Time of Jacob’s Trouble.” The wrath of God will be poured out on unbelievers in the form of the seven seals, seven trumpets and seven bowls. In regards to the church and the wrath of God, Paul speaking of the same event says the following:
“For God did not appoint us to suffer [wrath] but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.
And
“And to wait for his Son from heaven whom he raised from the dead — Jesus, who [rescues us from the coming wrath].
The seals, trumpets and bowl judgments are all that [coming wrath] of God and that fact is even stated within the those judgements themselves as shown below:
Seventh Seal: They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the [wrath] of the Lamb! For the great day of their [wrath] has come and who can stand?”
The above is the seventh seal, which is about to move into the first trumpet where the wrath of God is mentioned again.
You mentioned in your reply that the church would have to go through tribulation just like Job, Jonah, Noah, Daniel and most biblical figures. What you fail to realize is that, these people you mentioned did not go through the wrath of God. They went through regular tribulation and persecution by man and the powers of darkness. God is not going to send his church through this time period and then pour his wrath out on us. Not only that, but Jesus, in regards to that time of wrath said the following in the letter to the church of Philidelphia in Rev. 3:10:
“Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also [keep you from] the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth.”
Since the actual church of Philidelpia has been long gone, he is speaking to that future church that would be in that generation prior to when the day of the Lord takes place. The [hour of trial] is another synonym for the day of the Lord or that time of wrath. Notice that his promise is to [keep them from] the hour of trial. Not through that time, not in it, but [from it]. Once the church is gone, there will be nothing here on earth but unbelievers, but from the preaching of the two witnesses in Jerusalem (Rev 11), and the preaching of the 144,000 Israelites who come to the knowledge of Jesus Christ, the world will see a harvest of new Christians. This group is known as those white robed saints who come out of the great tribulation (7:9-17). They will come to Christ, but at the cost of death becasue they will not worship the beast or his image nor receive his literal mark to be able buy and sell. So, it is all of those who prior to the resurrection and catching away that did not receive Christ who are the ones being tested and not the church. We have already said yes to Christ, why would he send us through his wrath, which is what the last seven years is all about? If you were good picking up the clues that God leaves for us, you would notice at that, from revelation chapter 1 thru the end of chapter 3, the word Ekklesia translated “church” is used in all of those chapters and then suddenly disappears. The next word found to describe a believer is the work hagios, which is translated “Saint.” The reason for his is because in Rev. 4:1 John is representing the church being caught up. I am the most opened minded person I know, so that if someone can show me something different then what I have learned in my studies, I will check it out to see if it is a possibility. The problem I see today is that, many people are approaching the book of Revelation and the related books and verses as symbolic first and then literal, when it should be the other way around. A good rule of thumb when reading the word of God is this “If the literal sense makes good senses, then don’t seek any other sense.”
hi don
One of the primary mindsets of the beast is to destroy Israel, and the remnant. So you think the roman catholic church is going to attack Israel, and try to kill all the Jews and christians?
Hi Marianne!
To answer your question, in Rev 12, the “woman” is identified as the nation Israel by Jacob when Josheph tells Jacob and his brothers his dream about the sun, moon and eleven stars bowing down to him (Gen.37:9-10). You’ll notitice that in Rev. 12:13-16, the dragon (Satan) pursues the “woman” and sends a flood (army) after her, but the earth helps her by opening its mouth and swallowing the flood/army, which is God opening the earth up to foil them. Then God prepares a place in the wilderness for woman/Israel where she is protected for that last 3 1/2 years. The Roman catholic church is going to be that last day false religious system with one of her future popes as the false prophet, which means that, since you can see the devotion of the catholic people to the pope, that the false christ will have those people in that false religious system in his hip pocket. And to strenthen his credibitly he will even be performing satanic, counterfeit, miraculous signs to deceive his followers. But even so, God still has some who are faithful to Jesus, as we can see the command by God when he says in Rev 17:4
“Come out of her my people, so that you will not share in her sins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues;”
The “her” in the verse above is that false religious system. So, God will call his faithful out from her during those days. Some catholics have even said that they know that the RCC (Roman Catholic Church) is the woman of Rev 17 and 18 and are waiting for a sign from God to leave. Do not be confused though. The woman of Rev 12 is Israel and the woman who rides the beast of Rev 17 and 18 is that false religous systme the RCC. In regards to the RCC, the word of God says that she is responsible for all the shed blood of the prophets, apostles, saints and all who have been killed on the earth (Rev 17:6;18:24). But, praise be to God, for he puts it into the heart of the beast and ten kings to hate the woman and towards the end of the great tribulation, they destroy her (Rev. 17:16-17). So to recap, Israel will be cared for in the wilderness at a place prepared for her by God from the middle of the seven year period until Jesus returns and the woman (RCC) will be destroyed by the beast and the ten kings, who are also synonymous with the ten toes of Nebuchadnezzar’s statue in (Dan 2:41-43).
hey don
there were about 1 1/2 million deaths due to the crusades….this includes hostile muslims, as well as others.
there has been about 270 million deaths worldwide of christians and jews due to Islam….over 1400 years
who do you think wins as being the woman drunk with the blood of the saints.??
Remember arabs were killing jews in the OT also.
Hi Marianne! In speaking of the woman who is responsible for the the shed blood of the prophets, apostles, saints, etc. See the following and make your own descision:
“I saw the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus.” (Rev. 17:6)
and regarding the same woman:
“In her was found the blood of prophets and of the saints, and of all who have been killed on the earth.”
The reference to “all who have been killed on the earth” is in reference to the those who will have been killed during the tribulation period. Anyone who will not worship the beast, his image or receive his mark are those whose blood she will be drunk with. She will be masquerading as the true church and will be responsible for the shedding of the real saints blood during that time. The woman her is also called the woman who rides the beast and Mystery Babylon. Just a cursorary reading of the characteristics of the RCC and one can see all of the Babylonian pagan rituala and practices that are found her such as Mary being dubbed the queen of heaven, which was a tile of Simeramis, that Mary is co-redeemer, that she had no sin, the assumption of Mary (resurrection), praying to Mary, praying to saints, that Jesus at the time of communion actually comes down into the waffer so that you are litterally eating his flesh and blood, the infalability of the pope(s), etc, etc….
This is why she is called Mystery Babylon because she has the pagan practices that stem from Babylon. The woman represents the religious and commercial aspects of the RCC and Rome.
I personally think the RCC is pretty lame, and does not have the interest, or energy, to persecute saints.
it does not have the political power it used to, and most countries are atheistic, and do not care about the pope.
“all those who have been killed on the earth” implies times that predate Jesus as well, which brings up Israel’s obvious enemies, the arabs.
the bible considers jews as saints also.
Don, you have stumbled onto one of the keys of the mark of the beast but you are not interpreting it according to your own method – remember, literal FIRST!
The reference to “all who have been killed on the earth” must be taken literally. It refers to the first introduction of the Mark. After the Council of Laeodicea (364 AD), the early church forbid observance of the Jewish sabbath, forcing Sunday worship throughout the kingdom (it was already the norm in pagan Rome). This began the purging of the heretics costing the lives of over 100 million saints. The saints have already been martyred for not taking the mark. The future will simply be a replay of history.
James, please take your own advise “Literal first”
#1. He (the false prophet) is said to force all people to receive a mark. I believe exactly that he is the one initiating it.
#2. They receive it on their right hand or forehead. What is written here is exactly what I believe, the literal right hand and literal forehead, just like it says. And this is where you go after a symbolic meaning and stray from what is literally printed. Unless you can show me where the words “sabbath and Sunday” are in that verse, I believe exactly what is written.
#3. Without the mark, no one will be able to buy or sell. I believe exactly what is literally written right here. A person will not be able to make purchases without that mark, just like it lirterally says. Here again, you apply another meaning, which causes you to stray from what is literally printed.
Do you understand the point that I am trying to get across to you? You apply a symbolic meaning where none is required, which screws up the literal meaning that God intended! My approach has always been “If the literal sense makes good sense, then don’t seek any other sense.”
I have one interesting question about the literal mark. In rev 13:17 it says: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
If the mark is the chip then it seems possible to buy and sell without it – all you need is the name of the beast or his number. So it seems that a cashless society is not needed. Just write 666 on your forehead and go shopping. So the whole complex banking system is not really necessary, so neither is the chip. How do you explain this?
James, the reason that one will need the literal mark, is because the mark (chip) will be used in the same way as the debit card, which when swiped accesses your personal bank account. The mark will work the same way except that instead of swiping ones card, the chip (mark) will be scanned and will deduct the amount of purchase directly from your account. The number of the beast is directly related to the mark as it has been found that the preceding digits to all bank codes are the numbers “666”. The way that it will work is that all the other methods of buying and selling will become obsolete leaving only his mark, which will have the number of his name, forcing all to either receive his mark to be able to buy and sell or to reject it and take their stand for Christ.
Hi James! I have to say one thing, you guys sure are keeping me busy, but I like it. Regarding your statement above, you said:
“If the mark is the chip, then it seems possible to buy and sell without it – all you need is the name of the beast or his number.”
You need to go back and read this verse again, because that is not what is being said. Here is the verse:
“He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, [which is] the name of the beast or the number of his name.”
In the verse above, it is not stating that the mark, his name and his number are three different ways of buying and selling, but that all three represent the same thing, which is the mark. “The mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name, i.e. the mark equals his name or the number of his name. It is important to pay attention to all the details when reading the word of God, especially in the book of Revelation, for there are many clues. Now, if the verse would have said “So that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark [OR] the name of the beast or the number of his name, then your argument would be valid, because in that case they would be listed as three seperate options for buying and selling. You see what I am saying? But because of the wording, John is saying, the mark is represented by his name and his number and that will be contained on the right hand or forehead.
Don, my King James bible is as follows:
He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, 17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
So in this case they are three different things.
But if the chip is the name of the beast and it is his number, what does that mean. Like my apple computer is named Bill Jobs because he created it?
And how will we calculate the number of his name? Almost no modern langyuages use letters as numbers any more. That means someone will probably come up with a silly English numbering scheme to make the name work. I have already seen three or four different schemes for the English alphabet, but what if he is french or Islamic. What language will we use to count the number? If you make it up after the fact it will be bogus.
Any insight on this?
Don, you need to think deeply here as you are on the right track.
God calls his people out of the false religious system as you call it. This is the Whore of Babylon (paganism) AND her HARLOTS. He is calling them out of ALL churches still practicing paganism. Of all the pagan changes made to the early church and its descendants I believe the worst is breaking the sabbath commandment and worshipping the SUN god. Just where do you think he is calling them to? The Anglican church? The Presbyterians? The methodists? I don’t think so. It is the remnant church you don’t believe exists from rev 12. They will be the only church without the mark of the beast. The beast is the Vatican, perhaps the Antichrist in other words and the last pope (Peter the Roman) is the prophet. In any case the church will issue the mark and they would never stand for chipping the world. Can you imagine having to scan a church full of followers instead of passing the collection plate – for untraceable cash? No way. The want to fill the pews with tithers – so mandatory attendance will be the ticket. Or should I say, the Mark. Chip the whole world? Put internet-connected scanners in every flea market, third world market and Bombay street vendor? Never in time for the second coming. We are running out of time.
Here’s a caveat to go along with your concept of choosing literal first, then symbolic. Keep it simple (KISS). The simpler, easier to fulfill the explanation, the more likely it is to be correct.
Hi James! Remember, I in my previous post, I said that you need to pay attention to the details, especially in the book of Revelation. In Rev 13:17 your KJV says
“And that no man might buy or sell,save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.”
First of all, I did a paralell version comparison and the majority of the other versions, including the NIV has “Which is” and not “or”. But, that doesn’t really matter because the KJV clarifies it in Rev. 14:11 which says:
“And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever:and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the [mark of his name]. So, here the mark is qualified as the name of the beast. You can believe what you want, but for the sake of being safe, I would say, don’t receive anything on your right hand of forehead that allows you to buy or sell. You would be literally doing what it warns not to do in Rev 14:9-11.
The catholic church does want to destroy Judaism, Protestantism, Islam and every other religious system on the planet. Not by force any more but by conversion. But that may change during the revived Holy Roman Empire I described earlier.
Now Islam will try to do the same by force and will do so in the war of Gog in Ezekiel 38-39. They will be totally destroyed by God and should be completely out of the picture after that. Then the Antichrist come on the scene and its mostly about Christianity after that.
By issuing the mark of the beast and outlawing sabbath worship it will attempt to destroy the remnant church, possible by force near the end.
Of course, halfway thru the tribulation the Pope will go to the temple in Jerusalem and declare himself to be Christ the messiah and shut down Judaism and their practices (abomination of desolation) causing most to flee to Petra. At that point they will realize the pope is evil. But many Christians will not. They will gladly accept mandatory Sunday worship thinking it’s a good thing. So many will lose eternal life it is hard to imagine. The devil will get his fill of lost souls. It will be a turkey shoot.
And it will have nothing to do with the nation of Turkey (Heh, Heh).
And you talk about me not doing a thorough study! The abomination is not a person. If you would have bothered to look up the word that is used for abomination and would have read revelation 13, you would know that the abomination is an “image” and not a person. It is neither the first or second beast. It is an image (likeness) of the first beast that the inhabitants of the earth make and this, at the direction of the false prophet, which is set up in the holy place that causes the desolation of Jerusalem. The following is the Strong’s concordence definition of the word translated for “abomination”.
Bdelugma: denotes an “object of disgust” as in idolatry as in graven image.” Did you notice that is says “object?” This coralates with Revelation 13:14, which identifies the abomination as an “image”, which says
He ordered them to set up an “image” of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the “image” to be killed.
This verse infers that an object is being set up, that is in the likeness of that first beast. If you are going to try and refute this, I prefer that you do it using the definition of words and using the word of God to back up your claim, because up til now, everthing that you told me is purely what you believe with any scripture to back it up. Also, don’t jump to any other subject and stay on the abomination of desolation. I have just presented you with the definition of the word and I have shown you where the abomination of desolation is given in more detail than in Daniel’s or Jesus’ description. Now, to be fare, the word “abomination” does not appear in Rev. 13:14-15, but the description of it is there. The false christ will indeed sit in the temple of God, showing himself to be God, but that is not the abomination. The reason why the Jews flee when that image is set up is because, at that time they will know that he is not their messiah, because they know what God’s word says in ther law about idol worship and also from their fore-father’s past experiences with idol worship and how they suffered for it.
I did not mean that the Antichrist IS the abomination, only that he sets up the abomination. The image has many interpretations. I’ve heard it will be a robot, a clone, a hologram and a variety of other modern versions of the original statue from the OT. There is also a debate on whether Israel will rebuild the temple and begin animal sacrifices again. Do you think the temple and daily sacrifices are literal or symbolic.
This is the main problem with prophecy. Almost all of it could be symbolic or literal and the symbolism can be interpreted many different ways. Of course everyone with a theory is convinced they are right so the debate will go on till the second coming.
Speaking of theories, what is your take on the war of Gog? I’ve heard some crazy ones on this so let me know what you think.
Well, seeing that they have recoveined the sanhedren, have the priest’s garments, are intructing their priest in the ways of temple service and sacrifice, are examining the exact spot of the holy of holies, etc, I would say that they are literally looking to rebuild the temple. The only thing that is stopping them is the muslim presence, but when that false christ comes, he will fit the bill for the 12th Imam and also for Israel’s messiah, for 3 1/2 anyway. In regards to the destruction of Gog and Magog of Ezekial, the only link that I can see to be able to place the time period of when it will happen are two events that both Ezekial and Revelation have in common and that is that they both have the birds of the air being called together to eat the flesh of the dead. If the calling of birds in Ezekial 39:17-19 is synonymous with the calling of the birds in Rev 19:17-18, then that would place the gog event at just prior to Jesus returning from heaven to earth to set up his millennial kingdom, which would mean that, from the return of Christ and seven years into the millennium, they would be burning those weapons of war. Otherwise, there does not seem to be anything in the account that would tell us when. Myself, I believe that the calling of the birds in both those instances are the same event, so that when the birds eat the flesh of the kings,generals and mighty men in Revelation, it is the same time and same gathering of birds that eat the flesh of the gog group.
I’ve heard that theory by a guy that says Russia will invade Alaska by a land bridge of ice (in the summer no less).
I’m not so sure Russia will be involved. I believe it will happen just before the Antichrist takes power. It will be the cause of the great 7 year peace plan between Israel and its defeated attackers, negotiated by the Pope. It will show the world that God is real and is on the side of the Jews and Christians. This will cause many or all religions to flock to a powerful one-world catholic church. The Pope is already treated as God by Catholics and now the whole world will also. A political leader could never fill that bill effectively.
The rest is in revelation of course and as for the birds, it is probably just a similar reference.
For it to happen during WW3 is not likely since the king of the north (EU) will have destroyed the king of the south (Iran & its allies) by that time.
Its a tough one and I tend to use current politics and simple logic rather than looking for bible references as hidden clues. I think Ahmadinejad will not wait that long to act against Israel. Its just an opinion of course but something to think about.
oops…..I think I got you mixed up with James. the response you got should have been to him.
Hello …
Do you understand who Esau is today?
If you do please tell us.
I don’t care who the people of Esau are today, they have no bearing on Jacob’s trouble. As I said, Jacob’s trouble, that is, Israel’s trouble will be the completion of that last seven year period leading up to the return of Jesus to set up his millennial kingdom, with the last 3 1/2 years being that trouble when the abomination of desolation is set up in the holy place of their temple. If anyone was Jacob’s trouble, it would be Ishmael from Hagar, which is why Israel haz been fighting for all these years with the muslims who are Ishmaels offspring.
I think you should care and care much! Herod the Great is of that descent and you know what he did to the innocents don’t you?
And who was the hand that helped him?? A lack of knowledge of history is darkness.
Because that problem never went away and lurks behind every historical act of genocide committed to this day.
When Esau approached his brother it was to bite him and not to kiss him!
You cannot even begin to speak of Jacob’s trouble without understanding the basics.
And yet, Esau hugged Jacob and held no bitter feelings toward him. You need to study. Esau nor his discendants have nothing to do with Israels trouble in the last days. You show me where it is written that Esau wanted to bite his brother, otherwise you are speaking outside of scripture.
You would need to understand Hebrew language and obviously you don’t. And if you think I will waste my time trying to convince you are wrong.
I am not here to try to mislead you or any one.
I am telling you the truth.
I think Jews glamorize Jacob over Esau. Jacob was a deceiver and a trickster. Esau was just a dumb hairy guy, and in the flesh as much as Jacob.
The jews are reading too much into a simple story. Somehow, they have to justify how a deceiver could be more righteous than Esau, because Jacob is their ancestor. Nothing in scripture described him as more studious and responsible than Esau. I have heard Jews claim Jacob “studied Torah” and was more spiritual than Esau. The Torah had not even been written yet. So they made that up. Some of what you hear is folklore.
Jacob was chosen not due to any virtues he had, but due to the sovereign choice of God. In the same way, we are saved, not by our own works but by the grace of God.
There is no hebrew here indicating Esau was going to bite Jacob. The fact that they embraced and wept showed they had missed each other and were relieved to see each other again. Esau responded to Jacob in an intense, but positive way.
Thank you so much for that Marianne, because I was about to write everthing you just said. You are correct in saying that it was God’s soverenity in that, he said before either twin was born and had done either good or bad that “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.” For God’s word says “I will have mercy upon whom I will have mercy and compassion upon whom I will compassion.” It’s God choice,. which is why, regarding those who are in Christ, his word says “For those whom God foreknew, he predestined, those he predestined, he called, those he called, he justified and those he justified he glorified.” It also says that those in Christ, that there names were written in the book of life before the world even began. Now we are being transformed into his image as we go from faith to faith.
Esau was a beast. And be careful who you call a trickster!
Esau could never and never would be MORE spiritual than Jacob.
Esau did not and will never receive the blessings of Abraham.
Gen 27:20
And Isaac said unto his son, How [is it] that thou hast found [it] so quickly, my son? And he said, Because the LORD thy God brought [it] to me.
And after the blessings here is revealed the heart of Esau …
Gen 27:41
And Esau hated Jacob because of the blessing wherewith his father blessed him: and Esau said in his heart, The days of mourning for my father are at hand; then will I slay my brother Jacob.
Gen 27:42
And these words of Esau her elder son were told to Rebekah: and she sent and called Jacob her younger son, and said unto him, Behold, thy brother Esau, as touching thee, doth comfort himself, [purposing] to kill thee.
Now I am done with this!
Abigail,these were the feelings of Esau immediatelhy after Jacob had tricked him, but after being apart for so many years, we see them missing and kissing each other. Why do you not understand this. Also, it was Jacob’s mother who put him up to the idea of pretending to be Esau. Did he hate his mother too? More than that, God already had said before they were born that, Esau would serve Jacob. I don’t even know why this matters?
Esau is important because he is going to reincarnate as the next pope……
🙂
tee hee hee
Ha! Now I didn’t see that coming! Pope Esau!
Hi Don,
First of all, I believe the Day of the Lord refers to the millennium, not the tribulation (A day with the Lord is as a thousand years) It is the 7th thousand year period following the 6000 years of mankind in control (age of man).
As for the so-called secret rapture, I don’t see it happening. The rapture occurs when Christ returns with great fanfare and everyone on earth will see him. The dead are resurrected and then the living changed and meet Christ in the air. Are you thinking he snatches us away without leaving heaven? Where is that described?
As for protecting his people in the day of judgement, you are correct – he will. The judgement comes after he returns in glory and fights the battle of Armageddon, destroying the army of the Antichrist. That will happen on the Feast of Trumpets. Shortly after that on the day of atonement he will judge the wicked and reap them in the great harvest of his wrath. So where will we be during all this? Well I assume we will still be in the clouds where we all met with his just as he was returning (or maybe heaven). In any case we will be well out of harms way. So yes, we will be protected till the judgement is done. In fact, we will have incorruptible bodies so we could wander thru the battle of Armageddon without fear at that point, but we will have to go thru the trib and refuse the mark of the beast just like everyone else. You see, if you don’t really know what the mark will be, then you can’t receive a free pass, can you? In other words, if I’m right about the Sunday Sabbath then those who practice it will not deserve to be raptured. They will miss the millennium because they never got the chance to see the truth. Do you really want to trust your eternal life to the odds that your interpretation is correct? Good luck!
As for the Philadelphia church in the end time, I happen to be a member of the Philadelphia Church of God (Enid OK). This is an apostolic sabbath-keeping church that still celebrates the same Jewish festivals (that Christ has not yet fulfilled) as did the original Apostles.
I believe that this church is as close to what Jesus will restore the world to when he returns as you will find anywhere. We believe we are the Remnant referred to by the woman of rev 12-17.
As for the 144,000, you are right as to their purpose but they have little to do with us Christian believers. God wants his chosen people to become proper Christians, of course.
But he also wants US to become proper Christians too. That means stripping away all the Babylonian pagan practices in all the churches (Babylon is Fallen). How will he test us for being a proper Christian? He will see if in the tribulation’s crunch time if we follow the commandments of God and keep the testimony of Jesus Christ (Rev12:17). That is why the mark of the beast will be about the law and not banking.
If you believe all that, then go with it. Me, I have studied it most of my life and I know all too well the sequence of events, what is literal and what is symbolic in the book of revelation. So, we both have our belief. We will just have to wait and see.
Rev 9:20 states:
The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood–idols that cannot see or hear or walk.
Here the hands represent work or action and the work includes worshipping, so it is not literal work. The fact that the hand represents work and the right hand represents truth is all over the bible, including here in revelation. So don’t be surprised if it being used the same way in reference to the mark.
And the fact that God seals his faithful servants in their forehead in many places in revelation (and elsewhere) indicates that the forehead is the mind. So it is no stretch to assume the same is true of the so-called mark which is not so different from a seal in literal terms and are really the same in symbolism.
But there is no way to convince a protestant of this for one simple reason:
The Protestant Dilemma – to follow the bible alone and reject the pagan traditions of the catholic church, except for the transferring of the sabbath to Sunday. Some traditions are hard to break and even the Mormons keep Sunday though there is nothing in their book telling them to do so. Joseph Smith simply could not get enough converts if he had to convince them to keep the “Jewish” sabbath, so he went with tradition. Jesus warned against keeping the traditions of man over the word of god, but doing so would be a real hassle, so why bother.
So for most of the churches, the only acceptable explanation of the mark is some sort of chip. And so it will be until the second coming.
Let’s look at the sealing of the 144,000 that you are using as an example for the sealing being of the “mind”:
“Then I saw antoher angel coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God. He called out in a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm the land and the sea. Do not harm the land or the sea or the trees until we put a [seal] [on] the [foreheads] of the [servants] of our God.
Here is the word translated “sealed.”
sphragizo – To stamp with a signet or private mark for security or preservation.
There is nothing in the sealing of those 144,000 found in the text that would denote that this sealing is of the “Mind.” The text infers a [literal] marking or sealing of these 144,000. Now, whether this mark is visible or invisible could be debatable, but this will be a literal seal on their foreheads, as there is nothing in the text that proves to the contrary. And in regards to your concern about what day the sabbath is kept Paul says:
“One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. He who regards one day as speacial, does so to the Lord. Ibid – He who regards every day as special does so to the Lord as well.
The sabbath is not going to be an issue that would keep anyone from eternal life, for we are saved by grace through faith and not by works. We are credited with righteousness in return for our faith just as Father Abraham was. In regards to the sabbath, Jesus said “the sabbath was made for man and not man for the sabbath.” In other words, the sabbath wasn’t created to control man, to be a burden or to be his master. But you have made it a matter of eternal life or the lake of fire. Now, if you observe the sabbath on Saturday, then praise be to God, for in doing so, you do it unto the Lord, but don’t condemn those who observe any other day as sacred to God for they also do so unto God. This is what Paul was saying above. So, to have a specific day control our eternity is ludicrous. I’ll let you in on a secret. Because of the requirements of my job, I work two 12 hour shifts on Saturday and Sunday, which prevents me from attending either day, but from the time I roll out of bed and throughout the day, I am continually meditating on God’s word and a lot of times speaking it out loud no matter where I am. Not only that, but the word of God goes with me every single day to work where I study and pray. And because of that, God has inundated me with His word, because of His grace and because of the time I put into knowing His word. So, for you or anyone else to condemn me or anyone who does not observe the sabbath on Saturday is rediculous, much less cancelling out my relationship with God through His Son because of a day.
As far as i can tell, everywhere the right hand and forehead are mentioned in the OT, it always refers to the works and the mind. If the bible interprets itself, then my point is made. As for current events, the pope just issued a letter suggesting that sunday worship be mandatory and not permitted on any other day. If that is the mark then it is already here and only needs enforcement. Sorry but i beat you to it.
Naturally all sunday keepers feel exactly the way you do and I understand why. But if you don’t think God cares about it just remember the warnings of Jeremiah and that the reason the Jews were allowed to be captured by the Babylonians was that they continued to ignore the sabbath. If the bible tends to repeat itself then don’t be surprised if this is it.
I’m no Jeremiah so I can’t condemn anyone for anything they do.
But God can so be careful.
Yes, you are correct here in these verses, the worshiping of demons and idols are the works of their hands, but just because that is so here, does not mean that it is to be applied to the mark. Just because something means one thing in a verse, doesn’t mean that it means the same thing everywhere else. To assume that would be erroneous. As I already pointed out to you, the word “Star” is used to represnt at least four diffent things in Revelation, so to use the word “star” and apply the same meaning to it every time would be wrong. It is the context of what is being said that should determine the use of the word. In the case of the mark, there is nothing in the text that uses the prase “works of their hands.” It just says that a mark will go in the right hand of forehead and without it, they will not be able to buy or sell. To jump to the conclusing that because it mentions “hand” that it means “Doing works” as in what you listed above is grasping at straws. Here the literal sense makes more sense, especially when we are watching that very technology come about and in fact have a prototype for subdermal chip technology. In other words, since I have read the prophecy in Revelation and I can see that exact thing taking place, I’m going with the literal. It would be foolish to ignore it.
I have a question or two about this beastly banking system you are proposing.
First of all will it involve the whole world or only Christians.
Second, will it be introduced during the 3-1/2 year great tribulation or will it be phased in by individual governments over a long period of time?
If so do we refuse the chip even though it is clearly not the true mark since the beast is not on the scene yet?
And if the beast does not issue the chip at the start and simply institutes it worldwide (mandatory) would we have to remove our chips that have been in for 5 or ten years or do just the remainder of the people without it have to worry about getting the mark?
You see I don’t believe the world could be converted to your system in just 3-1/2 years. I am a computer engineer and programmer and I understand the complexities in instituting such a system. One glitch or hacker could shut down the entire world. Have you ever tried to buy something at a store when the power is off or their computer is down?
The thing you propose simply can not be accomplished in the time given. Now if all we have to do is stamp a 666 on our foreheads, then we could all get that done in less than an hour. And that would fulfill the literal prophecy nicely.
Want to change your story yet? 😉
Hi James! This mark will affect the whole world and not just christians. The word says that “He forced [everyone], small and great, rich and poor, free and slave.” Just as ATM’s for debit cards are everywhere, so will the mark be used, because it will use the same technology and that being make a purchase, scan the mark, and the amount is deducted from your account. To answer your question, the fact that God’s word says that something is going be placed on the right hand or forehead for the purpose of buying and selling, it would then be a good rule of thumb to not receive anything that has to do with your right hand or forehead for the purpose of purchasing. Why would anybody want to take the chance? As far as the system goes, it is already here. For some time now, we have had the ability at gas stations to simply wave a passkey and it does the same thing as if you swiped your debit card. Now just miniturize your debit card and put it under the skin of your right hand and viola. It wouldn’t take the world long at all to adjust the debit card machines, seeing that we already have the working technology. Not only that, but as I have said before, they already have subdermal chips smaller than a grain of rice being used and tested for this very purpose. I have been following this technology for the last 30 years, when I saw the first ATM’s come out, I knew at that time that this was going to be the technology used for the mark and then 30 years later, here we have computer chips that are being make to go under the skin. Good guess, huh? As far as hackers go, you could say the same thing about the debit card, because it will using the same technology. Also, it is not going to be established in 3 1/2 years because the technolgy is already here! We’re not starting from scratch. You need to look around at what is happening with this technology. God to a web browser and in the search type in veripay, verichip or RFID and read about this technology. I can walk into a Kia or a Home Depot and check out my own purchases. You walk though the line, scan your own items, swipe your debit card and it’s done. Now, replace that with a chip in the hand, go through the line, scan you products, wave your hand or scan it with a gun and you’re done. They even have debit card readers built into the air pumps at gas stations now to fill your tires up or to get water. If you still don’t believe what I am saying, don’t just receive a device on your body because you are sure of your interpretation about the mark, because you would be doing exactly what is literally written in fine print as what not to do.
Hi Marianne! As the word of God states,
“He also forced everyone, small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark, which is the name of the best or the number of his name.”
The beasts (antichrist) reign is going to be world-wide, which is what is ment by “small, great, rich, poor, free and slave.” It covers all peoples at all levels of life. We already have the prototype for the mark of the beast, as it has been in testing for some time. We already have the technology for this system in the form of debit cards via computer transaction. The mark has been in testing alreay in some places for the very purpose of making purchases. On place was using and RFID chip that was being tried at a club in Spain, where patrons had a chip inserted under the skin of the arm for the purpose of deducting the amount of the purchase for drinks directly from their bank accounts. Read the following:

Human ‘Chipping’ on its way with VeriChip
Comment
Thursday, November 27, 2003 by Fabrizio Pilato
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The APS VeriChip is designed using subdermal RFID technology for cash and credit transactions. The idea is that a consumer is simply a number, this makes it easier for us to spend our money from place to place without too much hindrance by real human functions, and even less of an effort for those taking our hard earned cash.
Some day we may be able to walk into a store and be completely alone and not have to see a living person in sight, imagine walking out holding the items you want and being billed instantly just as you leave the store. No confrontations, no customer service, no cute check-out girl, isn’t our future grand.
To entice you more, APS is offering $50 Off to the First 100,000 registrants at the time of the their first “chipping” procedure.
See press release below.
APPLIED DIGITAL SOLUTIONS’ CEO ANNOUNCES “VERIPAY™” SECURE, SUBDERMAL SOLUTION FOR PAYMENT AND CREDIT TRANSACTIONS AT ID WORLD 2003 IN PARIS
Applied Digital Solutions, Inc., an advanced technology development company, announced that the Company’s Chief Executive Officer, Scott R. Silverman, in his speech today at the ID World 2003 in Paris, France, revealed the Company’s newest subdermal RFID solution called VeriPay™. VeriPay is intended to be a secure, subdermal RFID (radio frequency identification) payment technology for cash and credit transactions.
About the size of a grain of rice, VeriChip™ is the world’s first subdermal, radio frequency identification (RFID) microchip that can be used in a variety of security, financial, emergency identification and other applications.
The VeriPay announcement came just a few days after a USA Today article (November 17, 2003) about emerging technologies highlighted one of the major limitations of using RFID technology for payment and credit transactions. After discussing various potential formats for RFID payment systems, including cards, earrings or pens, the USA Today article stated: “Still, experts note that one big hurdle remains for RFID systems: security. Lose your RFID-enabled card or earring, and someone else could easily use it to run up charges – especially if no signature is required.”
In that same article, an executive with a major credit card company said this about his company’s RFID payment technology: “Ultimately, it could be embedded in anything – someday, maybe even under the skin.”
At ID World 2003 in Paris, Mr. Silverman made the point that the subdermal RFID VeriPay technology specifically addresses the security issue. VeriPay’s unique, under-the-skin format offers a much more secure, tamper-proof, and loss-proof solution. VeriPay brings to consumers the benefits of fast and reliable RFID technology along with the security of a subdermal format.
In announcing VeriPay to ID World delegates, Mr. Silverman expressed his belief that VeriPay has enormous marketplace potential and invited banking and credit companies to partner with VeriChip Corporation in developing specific commercial applications, beginning with appropriate pilot programs and other market tests, for the VeriPay subdermal RFID solution.

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The technology is here and this only the beginning!
Barcelona nightclub chips customers
Alert PrintTuesday night is implant night
By John Leyden • Get more from this author
Posted in ID, 19th May 2004 12:53 GMT
Free whitepaper – Unified Server Configurator
A tongue-in-cheek Register story has backfired after a corporation took up a possible application we sought to poke gentle fun at.
US cybercorporation Applied Digital Solutions has developed the so-called “VeriChip”, a “miniaturised, implantable radio frequency identification device (RFID) that has the potential to be used in a variety of personal identification, security, financial, and potential healthcare applications”.
This subdermal RFID chip could be used to restrict use of firearms to authorised users or in a less lethal scenario pay for drinks and admission at the Baja Beach Club in Barcelona.
Yes that’s right – Annanova reports how ‘VeriChip’ means regular clubbers at the Baja Beach will “no longer have to wait in queue to pay to get in”. Absolutely in this modern age is obviously far easier to have a “brief outpatient ‘chipping’ procedure lasts just a few minutes and involves only local anaesthetic followed by quick, painless insertion of the VeriChip” than to flash the cash.
Tuesday night is ‘chipping night’
“The nightclub has now turned Tuesday nights into Implant Night where guests can be chipped in between drinking and dancing,” Annanova reports. Applied Digital Solutions (ADS) reckons the tiny gadget – “about the size of a grain of rice” – could even replace credit cards in the future or be used to store medical or security data.
ADS reckons the VeriPay application of its subdermal RFID chip is more secure than credit cards in authorising small transactions which are sometimes processed automatically without a signature or secondary authorisation. Emmm. At least with a credit card thieves would have to physical locate it and steal it from someone. With VeriChip all a crook would have to do is render a holder insensible – hardly difficult in a nightclub – and free drinks are theirs for the night.
Regarding marks in the OT, here is how it is used in Ezekiel….it may or may not be a physical mark, as it is just for the angel to see before the destruction of the city.
I remember the blood of the lamb was used to mark the doorposts of the hebrews in egypt at the first Passover event. That had some visibility, at least to the death angel passing by.
God’s mark seems to be a protection against death, for those who trust in and worship Him.
The beast, who copies God, offers a mark as a protection against death also, for those who trust in and worship Him as well.
Maybe, if the beast mark is a spiritual mark, it represents the rejection of the blood of the lamb.
I think you’re on the right track here. It will be a rejection of the lamb, and almost certainly of his commandments.
James and Marianne, the commands are “you shall not have any other gods before you” and “you shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.” The saints that are there duing the time of the great tribulation will be obeying that command. By receiving the beasts mark, one would be pledging ones allegence to him, because that will eventually be the only system of buying and selling and so by receiving it,one would be more concerned about saving his own life rather than taking his stand for Christ and the gospel and rather than putting his life in jeopardy. Just keep watching as I have for the last 30 years and you will continue to see the progress of this debit and credit technology via computer transaction escalate. Except now, the technology is moving much faster!
Don
I can see how a chip can be used without any “act of worship” going on. I do not worship Mastercard when I use it. It is just a tool.
If the chip technology is already here in debit cards, and other plastic money, then we have already accepted the mark.
Worship has to be associated with the mark. Being forced into taking a chip is not worship. However, if one accepted the chip as an act of worship, it would be different.
Since the mark represents the name of the beast, how is a chip a name? What is the name? Is Verichip the name of the beast?
According to Daniel, the beast is supposed to be a kingdom of nations, a revived mix of ancient empires (greco-roman, if you follow the symbolism).
This territory is now under mostly Islamic rule or influence. Did you know that 666 is the number of the Quran?
–
Marianne,
I contiinue to present this information to you guys, but you’re not getting it! The technology for this system of buying and selling, such as the debit card via computer transactions, will continue to progress until the middle of the last seven years, when at that time, (Now listen to this part), all the other methods of buying and selling such as cash, credit and debit cards, checks and money orders will be made “OBSOLETE.” The reason that the other methods will made obsolete is so that the only method of buying and selling will be by using his mark. By receiving his mark to save your life, you will be worshiping him and rejecting Christ. I don’t know how to make it any plainer! At that time, the beast will be proclaiming himself to be God, with the false prophet doing satanic miracles, signs and wonders on his behalf and in full view of the world. Receiving his mark will be worshiping him. Once those other methods of buying and selling are made obsolete, no one will have the option of using anything else to make purchases except his mark. The 666 is the international banking code. The mark is for the purpose of getting worship. Not only that, but he will also be setting up that abomination in the holy place in the temple which will cause the desolation of Israel. You are correct in that the beast is a kingdom, but he is also a person as the beast represents a couple of different things, but the beast does represent an actual man as well. The beast also represents that evil angel who comes up out of the Abyss at the 5th trumepet/first woe, who is the king of those demonic beings that are given power to torment mankind for 5 months. He’s the one who kills the two witnesses who will have been prophecying in Jerusalem for 3 1/2 yeas.
Marianne,
You are on the right track here. There is no logical relationship between a banking tool and worshipping a person. The mark is about keeping the law of God, not the law of man. The only logical explanation is that the head of the Babylon church (Catholics) will force the christian world to break the fourth commandment and to come to worship on Sunday instead of the sabbath. Who else but the Pope could convince the world that he is christ. And his name (title) adds up to 666 in latin.
Now here is where you start to drift a bit. On Jan. 1st (my birthday!) the Treaty of Lisbon will be ratified turning the EU into the revived Roman Empire – the 7th king of revelation. This kingdom will not be islamic. There will never be a revived turkish or ottoman empire or any type of islamic union. The antichrist can never be islamic as he could never pose as christ. He would not be recognized by either christians or muslims. The antichrist will come from the 6th kingdom or the second beast of rev elation – the vatican. We even know his name – Pope Peter thbe Roman. He will follow the current Pope at least according to Saint Malachy.
The prophecy is being revealed as we sit and watch it on TV. After this all that has to happen is for the church to merge with the EU giving the Pope ultimate power. And all he has to do is to enforce Sunday worship and the Holy Roman Empire will live again. That will be the 8th and last king(dom) of revelation.
Do you see the logic here? The first beast kingdom is the original holy roman empire and after a few
changes, it comes around again as the last kingdom. Simple and beautiful. Not complicated, but kind of obvious. For the same reason the city of 7 hills is simply the most obvious choice. John was in Rome when he wrote the book and the city of Rome was its capitol. It is an obvious and simple reference. Accept it and your study of the prophecy will become so much easier and make more sense.
I tend to bring something into my interpretation from my old job. I was a digital logic designer. I built computer-type devices using logic chips. I have many hours of study in the field of logic, part of which involves using logic to predict the outcome of various types of events, including human endeavors, natural events and many other circumstances. I never thought i would ever be applying these principles to bible prophecy but they seem to work just as well as they do everywhere else. Of course they are not 100% accurate but the principles are valid and have helped me a lot.
I think you have touched on this by the way you are asking the questions. The answers must make sense or may be suspect and need revision.
So keep asking good questions and try to answer them in a way that makes the most sense. And remember that you should always look for the simplest explanation – they are usually the right ones.
James,
Christianity, for the most part, already worships on Sunday, so you are saying that the mark has been here for 1700 years?
The bible does say there will be false Christs that arise…..but where does it say the Antichrist will pretend to be Christ? Daniel and Revelation describe him as a beast only.
An early fragment indicates the correct translation is 616, not 666.
What do you think?
Islamic prophecy indicates in the end times, that a great muslim ruler called the Imam Mahdi will arise and establish a covenant for 7 years. He will come with Jesus to establish world peace under Islam.
I think some of the catholics would listen to the pope, but the protestant wouldn’t. They do not recognize him as anyone important.
Hi Marianne and James!
The word “Antichrist” only appears, in the epistles of John and is used five times.
The Greek word is “Antichristos”, which can mean either “against Christ” or “Instead of Christ.”. One who assumes the guise of Christ or opposes Christ.
Actually, he will be proclaiming to be God for of himm it is written in (2 Thes.2:4)
“He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.”
I have question for everyone. I have been making the claim that the mark of the beast is literal, just as it is written in bold print and that it is a literal mark on a the literal right hand or forehead, for the literal purpose of buying and selling. Also, I have made the point that we have a literal chip that is being manufactured for subdermal use for the purpose of making purchases, which fits the prophecy to a tee. You on the other hand, have adopted a symbolic interpretaion that the mark of the beast is the observance of the sabbath on Sunday and in doing so, ignoring the literal text of God’s word, as well as the proof that I have presented regarding a literal, existing chip.
My question is this, if you see the technology for this system of buying and selling, utilizing this chip under the skin and it continues to escalate, running paralell to cash, checks, credit and debit, will you still receive this computer chip under the skin while knowing that its purpose is for crediting and debiting your bank account via computer transaction? That is, will you continue to trust in your symbolic interpretation, while overriding the literal interpretation that is written in God’s word?
Well Don,
If the words are truly literal all I will have to do is to have my chip installed in my LEFT hand or maybe my chest. That will solve the problem, won’t it?
James, I don’t think that you understand the gravity of what is going to be happening on the earth during that time period. The world is going to have a man that is going to be proclaiming himself to literally be God the creator. He is going to be in control of the governments of this world. The “Right Hand” may be ment as a slander against God, because everthing that is mentioned about God and his power, authority, on which side Jesus sits , etc, is always on the right hand. Because of the fact that the word of God says that the mark will go into the right hand, people may not have a choice, because the right hand may be a sign of worship to the beast. And for those who don’t have limbs, this may be the reason for the placing it in the forehead or it may even be a greater show of worship, but I don’t believe that you would have a choice of where you want the mark to go.
Just something to think about in regards to a physical mark. It is highly unlikely that it is a real mark as tattoos and any kind of body mutilation are forbidden by Gods laws. Ask any Jew. To this day they refuse to get any tattoos or body piercings. If God forbids such things why would he use them?
Hmmm….
Hi James,
I do not blame the Jews. The last time they had a tatoo, they went to teh gas chamber. We should think about that also.
Hi James,
I do not blame the Jews. The last time they had a tatoo, they went to the gas chamber. We should think about that also.
Morning James and all!
The thing to keep in mind regarding the mark of the beast is that, it is going to be world wide. Satan is attempting to get the worship that he has always wanted from the beginning (Isaiah 14:14-15). He will do this through the false christ, the abomination of desolation and his mark. As I stated in a previous post, the way in which the false prophet forces the inhabitants of the earth to receive the mark, is by removing all of the other methods of buying and selling, such as cash, checks, credit, debit, etc. Therefore, if you have just one way of doing business, which is via that mark though computer transaction (electronic credit and debit), then people will be forced to receive it because there will be no other way to continue making a living, except by receiving his mark.
Now, in regards to Israel and the mark, I believe that the abomination of desolation will be set up in holy place within the temple first before the false prophet makes the other methods of buying and selling obsolete, which would mean that desolation of Jerusalem will take place prior to the mark becoming manditory and the Jews will not receive the mark, but will in fact be cared for in the wilderness for that 3 1/2 years leading up to the end of the age.
From the beginning of that seven year period, when the antichrist makes his covenant, Israel who did not receive Jesus as their messiah at the time of their visitation, will believe that this beast who is coming to be their long awaited Messiah, which will fulfill Jesus’ prophecy when he said in Mt 5:43 –
“I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him.”
Currently, Israel is still waiting for their Messiah, so when this man comes and recovers from his fatal head wound and the false prophet is performing his satanic counterfeit signs and wonders, the Jews will believe him to be their messiah, up until he puts that abomination in the temple. The woman (Israel) will then flee Jerusalem, knowing that they have been deceived and will be cared for by God in the wilderness for that 3 1/2 years. The mark is coming and in fact is already here in the form of a subdermal chip that is being tested for puchasing in the same manner as the POS system works, make your purchase, swipe your debit card, your account is debited. As this chip technology begins to progress, the process is the same, make your purchase, scan your chip, your account is debited. Remeber, this is not just some average, everyday political leader, as this man is going to be proclaiming himself to literally be God, with the counterfeit miracles to back it up, including a mock resurrection. The fact that we even have technology fitting the description that is stated in Revelation regarding that mark should be enough for anyone to realize that this mark is to be talken literally, as going into the right hand or forehead for the purpose of buying and selling. Keep watching as I have for the last 30 years and you will see the emergence of this subdermal chip technology begin to run paralell with cash, checks, credit and debit for making everyday purchases, until the middle of that seven year period, when the other forms will be made obsolete.
Don,
Why do you think Jews will think a non- Jewish guy is their Messiah?
Hey!
Whether Jewish or not, read this and tell me what you think. And while your thinking on this, put some reality to it what I am saying and invision it.
you have a man come on to the world scene, of whom the world will be in awe of. He will do something that no other man has done and that will be to make a peace covenant between Israel and Palistine, making the way for Israel to finally rebuild their long awaited temple, so that they can begin temple worship, including animal sacrifices. He will be proclaiming to be God and as proof of his claim, he will suffer a fatal head wound, but will live (counterfeit resurrection) and will also have that false prophet, who will be his right hand man, who will be performing satanic, counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, even causing fire to come down from heaven in the site of the inhabitants of the earth and doing this all for the purpose of giving credibility to back up his claim of being God. So tell me, do you think they will receive him? It is a retorical quesion anyway, because Jesus said that they would receive him as their God in John 5:43
“I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him.”
Whether or not the Jews are going to accept him is a moot point, because God’s word says that they will.
don
The only Messiah the Jews will accept has to be Jewish.
There is nothing in scripture that says that Israel willing goes along with anything. Historically, they have always been forced into making concessions.
Just because the Antichrist is popular at the UN, does not mean Israel likes him.
Also, since anti- means “against,” he will not try to imitate christ, but be viciously against christ and christians. this is where the saints get martyred.
The world is already antichrist in spirit, and christians are hated for what they believe. Most likely the guy is atheist or Muslim.
Marianne;
I think you know I’m a nurse. I’m in the process of having my fingerprints done for my nursing license. At my place of work we scan our index finger to get medications out of a machine. We scan patients arm bands to give medication. Paychecks at both my husband’s and mine will no longer be issued. You will have to go on line to get a copy or at my husband’s employment wait a week to recieve it, so of course you are going to comply with automatic deposit to avoid the inconvience. There’s cameras everywhere monitoring your evey move. Even in the cafeteria you can use your badge or your credit card to buy food. We see more rules, more regulations, addeded everyday and more control taken away from us everyday.
hi Kitti
I think you said the magic word : “control.”
Control is the function of witchcraft, which is the root of rebellion against God.
It seems strange that control eventually contributes to chaos, rather than establishing order.
Hello at all
i think every true follower of Jesus is aware which day is to be held holy, the seventh day.
The question is, how do the future salesmen know if you are a sabbathkeeper or not?
The mark will not only be a physical means for buying and selling, the plan of sat.’s minions is to even control the minds and feelings of a person. Thats the reason of when someone had taken the mark he is by then lost for eternity.
http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1875c.cfm
The current and coming wars of monotheistic religions are planned and expedited by the Jesuits and will be used to abandon monotheistic religion and usher as Synthesis (as it is always done by them this way) in the “peaceful” New Age theosophical one world religion, currently promoted by the U.N. and their much expected “world teacher” Maitreya.
Thats why Babylon (Catholicism-sun god/Islam-moon god) will be eaten by the Beast.
True Christianity wont get eaten, of course, neither true judaism. But will suffer persecution by the whole rest of mankind.
.. it occurs to me that everyday even more souls get caught by this theosphical thinking. It has become such a vast movement, through means like the movie “Zeitgeist” for example.
Esoteric buds are even sown in the churches already.
They take the bible symbolic and many believe in 2012 will be collective global consciousness jump, and mankind will “evolve” into gods through the help of our “Alien creators” and their LOVE-chip (the mark). Everyone will take it, who is not written in the book of life and everyone will worship the beast.
Btw, the advanced New Ager k n o w s that Maitreya is the Antichrist.
Even a commercial for him ran already on CNN.
This movement is incredibly vast and it accelerates.
The next things to expect:
-Officially disclosing of ET, later first contact
-middle east war, palestinians will annihilated (Obadiah) http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1422.cfm
-“Muslim” attacks in America and Europe (the Muslims dont know they are being used to further the agenda)
-After WW3 Maitreya appears, “his” star appears
-The 10 superstates are formed, and will give him world government
etc…(not chronological)
What you think? Hard to come to grasp isnt it.
God bless us all
Hello again! Regarding the beast (false christ) being Maitreya, many people throughout the ages, have falsely identified men throughout history, such as Nero, Stalin, Hitler, Reagan, Obama, etc. But the only true way of knowing who this false christ will be, is the one who fulfills the following:
* He confirms a covenant with many (Israel)for seven years
* In the middle of the seven he breaks his covenant and he sets
up that abomination that causes the desolation.
* He receives a deadly head wound, but lives (mock Resurrection)
* Proclaims himself to be God or anythng that is called God.
* Speaks boastfully against God and those who dwell in heaven.
* Has a false prophet who performs satanic, miraculous signs and
wonders on his behalf,(For credibily).
* He will have authority over the saints to make war and to
conquer them for that last 3 1/2 years.
Personally, I believe that the church will be resurrected and caught up prior to his being revealed and that we will never even see the false christ. But in any case, whoever he is, it will be the one who displays the above characteristics, otherwise it is all assumption.
Hi Don, nice to meet you.
Yes, you are right, no one can yet be 100% sure who is the false christ.
But when you study this topic regarding the NWO, U.N., New Age and Maitreya there is actually very little doubt for me. However, it is possible that he is “just” the false prophet!
The time is near, and the secrets of Revelation are being revealed to us.
Its official now, the EU President officially confirmed that we are now on a fast pace to “global management of our planet” due to the global warming scam and the other manufactured global crisises like the financial crisis or war on terror.
Do you think there is a definition in Revelation for the LAST trumpet Pual speaks of in 1Cor15:52?
In regards to the “Last Trumpet” of 1Cor 15:52, also called the “Trumpet call of God” in 1 Thes 4:16, I know what it is not and that being the seven trumpet of Revelation. Many have claimed that the seventh trumpet is that “last trumpet” of those seven, and therefore, the resurrection and catching away takes place at that point, but what they don’t take into consideration is that, the seventh trumpet is a judgement, where the catching away is the grace of God taking His church off the earth prior to His wrath being poured out. Otherwise, it is some other trumpet and of that group, the last one. One of the many reasons I believe that the Lord will come for the church prior to his wrath, is in fact because of that trumpet. I believe that the “voice that sounds like a trumpet” that is speaking to John saying “Come up Here” in Rev. 4:1 is synonymous with the “Trumpet Call of God” found in 1 Thes 4:16 and that John is here representing the church being caught up. There is another clue there as well and that is that the word “Ekklesia” translated “Church” is used over and over again from Rev 1 thru the very end of chapter 3 and then the word disappears and is never used again to refer to believers within the narrative. The next time believers are mentioned, they are called “Hagios” translated “Saints”, ergo Ekklesia missing, church is missing. My posts that mention have more information on this subject.
hi dmcal52
The last trumpet may also refer to the season.
It would be harsh for the believers to live through the 7 trumpets of revelation, and wait for the last trumpet. When Paul said this, the book of revelation had not been written yet.
The feast of trumpets is Rosh Hashannah. This begins the 10 days of awe. At the end of the 10 days (Jesus said we would have tribulation 10 days), they sound the trumpet for the last time, as the gates of heaven close for repentance.
maybe this is what he was referring to.
Morning Marianne!
Just to clarify, I don’t believe that the church will be here to go through the trumpets, seals or bowls, as these make up the wrath of God, which we are not appointed to (2Thes.5:9) and which also Jesus rescues us from (1 Thes 1:10).
The book of Revelation is divided into three parts as revealed by the Lord when he told to John to write:
1. What you have [seen].
2. What is [now].
3. What will take place [later].
The what have you have [seen] was everthing that had happened prior to him being told to write.
The what is [Now] is represented by the letters to the churches, which not only represented those actual seven churches of that time, but also represents the entire church period, which is the [Now]. That being said, we are still in the [Now].
Rev. 4:1 is the beginning of the [what will take place later], because Jesus says to John “Come up here and I will show you “what must take place after this.” That is, what will take place after the now, which we are currently still in; the church period. Therefore, the majority of the book of Revelation is addressed to [what will take place later], which is comprised of the wrath of God displayed in seven seals, seven trumpets and seven bowls, with parentetic pauses in between.
The reference to your mention of
“and ye shall have tribulation ten days”, may have been directed literally to the actual church of Smyrna of that time. I know this, that statement will have no relevance beginning from the middle of the seven year period until Christ returns to set up his kingdom, because at that time the beast will have been given authority to make war against the saints and to conquer them (Dan 7:25; Rev 13:7) and so it will not just be a matter of ten days of testing during that time, but most of the saints during the great tribulation will be beheaded as Rev. 20:4 reveals.
By the way, you can call me Don opposed to Dmcal52 if you like.
Since we have been debating these issues for a while now, here is what I believe to be the order of things:
1. Currently we are in the
church period (What is Now)
2. When the church is done
being built, then the
resurrection and catching
away will take place, the
end of the [Now].
3. From Rev.4:1 on begins the
(what will take place later)
4. Jesus begins to open the
seals, which leads into the
trumpets, which lead into
the bowls, which take place
throught the seven years
until Jesus returns to the
eath to set up his
millennial kingdom.
5. First seal – White horse,
The beast makes his seven
year covenant with Israel.
6. The pale horse, which is the
result of the red and black
horses kill a fouth of the
earths population by war,
famine disease and wild
beasts of the earth.
7. The following happens
around the middle of that
seven year period:
* The abomination of
desolation is set up.
* The woman (Israel) flees
into the wilderness and is
cared for by God for 3 1/2
years until Jesus returns.
* Satan and his angels are
finally cast out of heaven
to the earth (Rev 12:10)
* The mark of the beast is
made manditory and without
it, no one will be able to
buy or sell (Rev.13:16-17)
* The beast will be given
authority to make war and to
conquer the saints for that
last 3 1/2 years (Dan.7:25;
Rev.13:7)
* The seventh bowl will be
poured out signaling the end
of God’s wrath by the
announcement “It is done”
(Rev.16:17).
* The kings of the earth and
their armies will have been
gathered together at
Meggiddo for Har-Megeddon
by those three evil spirits
that come out of the
mouth of the dragon, beast
and false prophet
(Rev 16:13-14).
* Jesus will descend from
heaven with us following
behind him on white horses
* The angels will go out and
gather the weeds (one
taken) and bring them
back to where those armies
are (Mt 13:24-30; 37-43)
* The beast and the false
prophet will be cast alive
in the lake of fire Rev 19:20
* An angel calls all of the
birds of the air to gather
them for the great supper of
God (Rev 19:17).
* The double-edged sword will
proceed out of the mouth
of Jesus (the word of God)
and all of those kings,
generals, their armies and
those (one taken) will fall
dead (Rev.19:17-18 & 21)
* The birds that were
previously called will gorge
themselves on the dead bodies
* Satan is cast into the Abyss
by a mighty angel so that
he cannot deceive the nations
during the millennial reign
of Christ (Rev.20:1-3)
* The millennium takes place
* Satan is let out at the end
and deceives the nations, who
march across the breadth of
the earth and surround
Jerusalem where God destroys
them with fire and sulfur out
of heaven (Rev.20:7-9).
* Satan is cast into the lake
of fire where the beast and
the false prophet were cast
at the beginning of the
thousand years (Rev. 20:10)
* The lost dead are
resurrected out of Hades and
the great white throne
judgment begins,Rev 20:11-15.
And anyones name not found
written in the book of life
was cast into the lake of
fire, which is the second
death. Note: The righteous
do not take part in this
judgement.
* This current heaven and
earth pass away and a new
heaven and new earth are
created. (Rev.21)
* New Jerusalem comes down out
of heaven from God(Rev.21:2)
* Eternity ………………?
I have thought about my assertion that Judah will reject the false Messiah.
I think thats not correct.
-Judah is waiting for a worldly Messiah for them
-They rejected Jesus the true Messiah
(“I am come in my Father’s Name but you will not receive Me. Another will come in his own name and him you will receive.”
(John 5:43)
-They deny Jesus is the son of God and come in the flesh – thats the spirit of anti Christ (I John 2:22; 4:3)
But at the end of the tribulation they will recognize that they have been deceived.
I want to add a few sources:
New EU President Admits One-World Government is Here – New World Order
.
Theosophy is of the devil:
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/New%20Age/theosophy.htm
.
The Coming Theosophic World Religion
.
Documentaries about the theosophical one world religion:
http://keithtruth.blogspot.com/
.
Constance Cumbey: New Age Lecture (1/7)
.
THE NEW AGE INFLUENCE AT THE UNITED NATIONS
http://contenderministries.org/articles/UN_aaclucis.php
.
WW3, Nephilims, Aliens, Black Ops & the NWO with Steve Quayle pt.1/12
hi silvan
Theosophy is just a nice name for witchcraft, isn’t it?
Hi Marianne! Absolutely, yes. The 2nd link confirms it. He writes, there is not a dime difference between. New Age is just the name to further the New World Order Agenda, for naming evil things nicer for the gullible masses.
Like “finding the christ/light within”, is in fact finding some evil spirit. Or “channeling” is demon posession.
Blavatsky’s book “The Secret Doctrine” is famous in witchcraft circles, as also in Freemasonry. Albert Pike, Masonic Grandmaster, wrote in “Morals and Dogma” some same things like Blavatsky. Masons also admire Blavatsky.
Theosophy, Satan worship, New Age, Freemasonry, and witchcraft are inseparable. They all hate God, hate the Word of God, and are committed to a one-world order, i.e., the Beast system of the coming Antichrist.
The journey into this occult/esoteric realms begins mostly with meditation, ie. “cleaning” the mind from thoughts, a kind of self-hypnosis so that one makes possibly room for another spirit.
This and other esoteric practices like “star jorneys” are currently taught in many churches, and the catholic church leading (i know that first hand). Benny Hinn and other famous “preachers” are Masons.
Btw, our new EU President is *devout* catholic and Alex Jones is, too (i found recently out). Jones provides very good news and documentaries about the NWO but never mentions the Vatican behind all this, instead he just refers to the “faceless elite”, or the “globalists”. He is a withwash for Rome.
A big opportunity for us in working against theosophical doctrines lies in the fact that the followers DO read the bible, but sadly take every word symbolically and also take phrases out of context. We can show and explain them the true meanings, if we meet with one of them!
Hi Silvan! Actually, the woman of Rev. 12 (Israel) may actually come to the knowledge of Jesus as their Messiah once that abomination is set up in the holy place of the temple, which is what causes the desolation of Jerusalem, where Israel flees into the wilderness and is cared for from the middle of the seven until the return of Christ 3 1/2 years later.
Hi Don
are you sure that the woman is (just) the tribe of Judah (“Jews”/state Israel)?
There are other tribes of the House of Israel today, i believe.
http://www.cai.org/bible-studies/british-israel
Can you read it and let me know what you have in mind?
Hi Silvan, good to meet you too! I didn’t say the woman was made up of just Judah. We know who the woman is from Joseph’s dream in Genesis 37:9-10 and that is, that she is symbolic for Israel. Jacob gave us the answer when he said to Joseph:
“Will I, your mother and your brothers truely come and bow down before you?”
So, Jacob represented the Sun, Joseph’s mother the Moon and the Eleven Stars represent eleven of the twelve tribes, Joseph being the twelfth. So, I believe that the woman represents Israel as a whole since all of the tribes are mentioned. In regards to the 144,000, I believe that these are 12,000 that are sealed by God from each of the twelve tribes, minus Dan, who is replaced by Manasseh. These are the first fruits to God out of Israel. These are those of whom the woman (Israel) gives birth to who are 144,000 who will come to the knowledge that Jesus is their Messiah. The woman herself flees into the wilderness, where she is cared for a time, times and half a time (3 1/2 years). This event of her fleeing into the wilderness I believe, is the result of the abomination of desoltation being set up. I do not believe as some that the woman and the 144,000 represent the church, because for one thing, Genesis 37:9-10 points to literal Israel and regarding the 144,000, they are mentioned as being 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes mentioned by name. I don’t understand why people try to apply them as being the church. And second, I believe that the church will be resurrected and caught up before the beast is even revealed and so the church would not be here to be the 144,000. If you would like to see my reasoning from scripture as to why I believe these things, then check out my posts titled “The Resurrection and Catching Away” and “The Abomination of Desolation.” Let me know what you think.
Hi Don, yes.
Joseph sons Ephraim and Manasseh were adopted by Israel/Jacob in Genesis 48.
These tribes are todays Great Britain and America. The link shows overwhelming scriptural and secular evidence. Just one point: The (“Anglo”)-Saxons are the sons of (I)Saac. Brit-ish is hebrew and means “covenant people”. etc..
Acc. to Rev 11 Israel, through Judah, gave birth to the child, Jesus Messiah.
I wonder, who are the “remnant of her seed who have the testimony of Jesus Christ”.
I am checking out your site, now.
Hi Silvan! I don’t believe that the “male child” is referring to Jesus, but are the 144,000 that come out of Israel. That is, I believe that the man child and the 144,000 are one in the same. But, that’s just my consenses.
15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. Rev19
You have to go into scripture again and again, brother.
Dont search for what you WANT to believe, but for the truth!
God bless!
Silvan, I have been studying the word of God for 37 years, so I don’t put anything out or say anything that I have not studied. But, I don’t know what you are saying by the verse above. This is abviously from Revelation 19:15 when the Lord is descending to the earth to set up his millennial kingdom and to destroy the beast and the false prophet and their armies, but why did you write it?
Good morning Don, believe me i did not ment it as offense..you just seem to assume a lots of things when looking inot prophecy, instead of validating with another scripture..forgive me. (Iam not better)
Rev.19:15 is the explanation for who is the male child.
Jesus rules them with a rod of Iron.
Not all scripture of Rev. are future visions.
Hi Silvan,
I think Don is way off on this one. Here i my take on the woman.
In prophecy a woman represents a church so i believe that the pregnant woman represents the Jewish church about to give birth to christianity. The man child is of course Jesus and after he ascends to the throne the woman becomes the christian apostolic church. The 12 stars around the woman represent both the 12 tribes of israel and the 12 apostles. The woman goes into hiding for 3-1/2 prophetic years or 1260 actual years – the exact length of time that the first beast would last – the holy roman empire. In those years the catholic church persecuted the saints as heretics. After the church began enforcing the change of the sabbath from saturday to sunday, true sabbath keepers had to flee to the mountains to avoid persecution and many were hunted down and killed by order of the Pope. These are the seed of the woman who keep the commandments and have the testimony of christ. These remnants became the 7th day adventists in 1844, fulfilling the prophecy of Daniel. History proves that the prophecy has happened exactly as predicted.
This church will be the elect mentioned in the first resurrection as Gods priests.
Thats my take, for what it is worth.
Hi James and Silvan!
Here again, even though Jacob in Genesis 37:9-10 gives us the answer to who the sun, moon and eleven stars represent and that being Israel. And the fact that the names of the twelve tribes of Israel are given as 12,000 from each of the names listed, you erroneously apply symbolism and ignore the literal.
Since Joseph had his dream about the sun,the moon and eleven stars bowing down to him and Jacob revealed that the sun reprepresented him and the moon represented Joseph’s mother and the eleven stars represented eleven of the twelve tribes, which clearly is showing that the woman is representing Israel as a whole, but yet you ingnore the literal and go after the symbolic. How could God ever tell you something literally in his word when you continue to seek after the symbolic?
You’re not even following your own advise about looking for the simplest interpretaion, because if you were applying that as you told Marianne to do, you would believe in a literal mark, since there is nothing in the context to suggest a symbolic meaning.
Don,
You say you are interpreting this chapter literally yet you assume much symbolism. For example, we know that in Josephs dream the sun represented his father, the moon his mother and the stars his brothers. All real people that were referenced in his interpretation.
Now you say it is obvious that the woman clothed in the sun (NOT the same as the sun in the original dream) represents not Jacob but all of his descendants. But the stars are also his descendants so they are not needed. And if the woman (the moon) represents his mother, then the first ten tribes of Israel are not included since they had a different mother than Joseph.
If the original sun, moon and stars were symbolic of his father, mother and brothers, then you must use a new symbolism to make them represent all of Israel or the 144,000 or anything else for that matter. The woman in heaven clothed in the sun is not a literal human being, the moon is not the actual moon and the stars are no real stars. They all represent other things therefore they are all symbolic. The truth is you are not taking the scripture any more literally than me or anyone else for that matter. You merely have an opinion and it is only valid if your assumptions are also valid and you know what they say about assumptions.
I think you, like many are hung up on the similarities of the verses and have gone to extremes to make it work. On the other hand you have no trouble ignoring the similarities between verses referring to the right hand and the forehead as being symbolic of works and thoughts.
When you think about it, almost everything in prophesy is symbolic. Countries, weapons, people, churches, virtually everything is described symbolically to some extent. Even your chip is symbolized as a mark so don’t be too quick to say your interpretation is literal.
James,
Sun=Jacob
Moon=Wives
Stars=twelve tribe
Woman clothed with the “Sun”, with the “Moon” under her feet and a crown of twelve stars equals Israel.
The sun,moon and twelve stars represent the nation Israel. I will say it again. The book of Revelation is made up of both literal and symbolic meanings. The woman here in chapter 12 is one of those symbolic meanings. Israel is the answer to what is behind the symbolism of the woman. Why is this so hard to understand? The woman as a whole represents Israel.
I apply a literal interpretation if the literal sense makes good sense, but when somthing like a red dragon is presented, I know right away that this requirs a symbolic interpretation and that I need to find out where in God’s word the answer is. For the woman of Rev 12, the meaning is found in Genesis 37:9-10, because eveyone involed represents Israel. Jacob, his wives and his twelve sons = Israel. I never said that everything in the book of revelation was a literal interpretation.
The mark isn’t symbolic, it is just that John does not have anything else to relate to what it is, because he is seeing a vision of the future and therefore, he uses “charagma” which denotes a stamp or impress or tattoo to describe “mark.”
John certainly couldn’t have said “He forced all to receive a computer chip in his right hand or forehead and except anyone had the computer chip, he would not be able to credit and debit his bank account.”
So, the mark is something that goes in the right hand or forehead, but John can’t tell us what it is because he has nothing to relate it to of his time except the above mentioned.
Will you understand the gravity of the storm??
that is totally weird.
I think I saw this on MythBusters. Turns out a group of Mexicans are disguising balloons as all sorts of things – even people. They cover them in fabric or clothing and let them go. It is obvious that they are not self propelled but are just carried by wind currents. If they tried this crap in the US there would be news helicopters all over them and they would be debunked almost immediately.
Sorry… just more crap.
And what does it have to do with the Mark of the Beast? This junk needs to stay on YouTube where it belongs.
I don’t know how this will work but I’ll try this copy and paste this article. …
The Name of the Beast is Leviathan
Revelation 13:17 “And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.”
The Oxyrhynchus Papyrus gives us the Name of the Beast Leviathan (Lamed-Vav-Tau) “Lavithaw” in ancient Hebrew script. It means an enormous sea monster, a dragon, a twisted serpent.
Hi Abigail!
where can i read this papyrus?
Thanks,
Well … it is just a fragment.
I haven’t searched it further but here is a link for starters.
It is papyrus_115
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papyrus_115
I tried to copy the segment but it didn’t work.
http://industry.bnet.com/pharma/10005250/verichip-buys-steel-vault-creating-micro-implant-health-recordcredit-score-empire/
VeriChip (CHIP), the company that markets a microchip implant that links to your online health records, has acquired Steel Vault (SVUL), a credit monitoring and anti-identity theft company. The combined company will operate under a new name: PositiveID.
The all-stock transaction will leave PositiveID in charge of a burgeoning empire of identity, health and microchip implant businesses that will only encourage its critics.
.
.
http://www.physorg.com/news178186859.html
(PhysOrg.com) — Computer chip maker Intel wants to implant a brain-sensing chip directly into the brains of its customers to allow them to operate computers and other devices without moving a muscle.
I want to have a rapture,
but
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
The first resurrection is linked to the “rapture”.
Here is the first resurrection described, at the last trumpet of Jesus.
4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Rev20
Isnt it clear language?
1Cor15 is also linked to the first resurrection.
52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Thess4 and 1Cor15 speak of the same event, the last trumpet of Jesus and the first resurrection.
In Rev. 20 the first resurrection is described.
The souls are raised who were martyred by the beast.
These will reign and judge with Christ for the 1000 years.
But not all are martyred, some will be according to Paul “alive and REMAIN”. From what “remain”, remain not being martyred.
Hey Marianne and Silvan! Regarding those who are martyered by the beast in Rev 20:4, these are the same group in John’s vision that were introduced in
Rev 7:9-17
“Then one of the elders asked me, “These in white robes– who are they and where did they come from? I answered, “sir, you know.” and he said “these are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”
Those of them who make it though to the end without being killed by the beast and the world, will be those who enter into the millennium as mortals and who will repopulate the earth during that time. The woman (Israel) will also be among those repopulating the earth during the millennium. These are the elect who enter into the great tribulation period of whom Jesus said in Mt 24:22:
“If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.”
So, since the days towards the end of the great tribulation will be cut short, some will survive and will go into the millennial period to repopulate it.
Also, the first resurrection is actually made up of multiple resurrections that come under the label of “First Resurrection or the resurrection that comes before the last one. Jesus was the first fruits of that first resurrection, the church will be next, the 144,000 who are caught up to God’s throne, the two witnesses, those who will be martyred duing the great tribulation period, etc. The resurrection that takes place at the end of the millennium is the bad resurrection, for this is the resurrection of the unjust, the lost dead who are resurrected out of Hades to stand before God at the great white throne judgment. The righteous do not partake in this judgment. Thanks be to God!
Don
doesnt one has to be dead before being resurrected?
Wherefrom do you read that the church “will be next”?
The two scriptures wherefrom people developed the “rapture” theory are obviously NOT taking place before the tribulation.
Hi Silvan! Yes, you are correct, you do need to be dead in order to be resurrected, but for those who are still alive at the time that the resurrection takes place, they are changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye and caught up with those who were just resurected to meet the Lord in the air, as seen in 1 Thes 4:16
“For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the [dead] in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still [alive] and are left will be [caught up] together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage each other with these words.”
From the verse above you see, that those who are dead in Christ will rise first, then those who are still alive will be changed and caught up with them to meet the Lord in the air. The resurrection of the dead in Christ and the catching away of the living take place almost simultaneously.
1 Cor 15:51 and 1 Thes 4:16 are in reference to the same event and that being the resurrection and catching away, which says:
“Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all [sleep], but we will all be [changed]– in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and [we] will be [changed].
The reference to those who sleep are those who are in the ground who have died in the Lord. They are resurrected first and then we who are still alive at the time this takes place will be [changed] in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye. We will be just like those who are resurrected, the only difference is at the time the Lord comes, they will be dead and we will still be alive when this event takes place and so, we are just changed on the spot.
Brother
Rev. 20 shows the timing when the first resurrection takes place..
AFTER the reign of the beast, AFTER Satan is bound.
Hi Silvan! I have listed some resurrections below:
1Thes 4:16; 1Cor 15:51 – Resurrection and catching away
Rev 11:11 Resurrection of the two witnesses
Rev 14:3 – 144,000 who were sealed in Rev 7 and redeemed from the earth.
Rev 20:4 Those who are resurrected who come out of the great tribulation.
So Your saying that since there is only the “first resurrection” that takes place at the return of Jesus at the end of the tribulation period, that all of these groups are resurrected at that same time?
So that there are only two resurrections, the first one of the righteous and the one at the end of the thousand years for the resurrection of the lost dead and that anyone who is resurrected must fall under one of these two resurrections, is that correct?
Then tell me this, for those who are faithful to Jesus during the millennial period, what resurrection will they belong to, since the “first resurrection” will have taken place at the beginning of the millennium? Since the first resurrect will have already taken place and the only other resurrection is at the end of the millennium and that is for the lost dead, what resurrection do the faithful of the millennium take part in? Oops!
Answer: Those who are faithful to Jesus during the millennium, who aren’t a part of that group who rebel, after they die also fall under the “First Resurrection.”
Also, the two witnesses who are left in the streets of Jerusalem for 3 1/2 days are resurrected before Jesus returns and therefore, they also fall under the “first resurrection.” So, already you have two resurrections that take place other than at the return of Christ that fall under the label of “first resurrection.”
How many God’s are there? There is one God, yet the Father is God, Jesus is God and the Holy Spirit is called God. Now how many God’s do you have? You have three distinct entities that all fall under the designation of “One God”, yet there are three.
A better way of defining the “first resurrection” is,”The resurrection that takes place prior to the last one”, which includes all resurrections prior to the one that takes place at the end of the millennium, which is a resurrection of the lost dead.
If you still don’t believe that, Jesus was considered the “first fruits” of the “first resurrection” and then those at his appearing, so right there you have two individual resurrections
Hello Don
you may be right that there are first resurrection 1.0, 2.0 and 3.0 .
To clear that up, when do you think is the timing of the catching away?
Before the seven, midst or end?
.
Did you note that the “male child” is Jesus?
Thanks for answering in a humble tone.
God bless
Greetings,
I hope all are well. I agree with most of what you are saying. However I do not believe in multiple ressurections. The scripture in Revelation 20:6 calls it the first ressurection.
Plans are already in place to establishing the government of the 1000 years.
There is of course no rapture.
Love,
John
Hello! What you call “Rapture”, I call “Catching Away” and there is one of those and it takes place almost simultaneously with the resurrection.
“The [dead] in Christ shall rise first, then [we] who are still [alive] will be caught up.”
So, you see there are two groups here, those who have died in Christ and are resurrected and those who are still alive that are changed and caught up and meet them in the air. This will take place prior to the wrath of God.
Hi,
Hope you arew well. The first ressurrection is not of all the dead only those slain in the tribulation. The ressurrection in 1 Thessalonians 4 is the final resurrection.
Why do you think the 144000 is a resurrection?
Finally, yes the two witnesses will be raised up from the dead but so was Lazarus.
Love,
John
Hi John!
My point is that, the first resurrection is not made up of one resurrection. You can’t have the resurrection and catching away of 1Thes 4:16 and 1Cor 15:51 taking place when Jesus returns to the earth to set up his millennial kingdom because that would put the church directly through the wrath of God and we are not appointed unto wrath (1Thes 5:9) and Jesus rescues us from that wrath (1Thes 1:10) and also for those who endure patiently, he keeps us from it (Rev 3:10). Besides all that, Paul outlined the sequence of events of the “day of the Lord” starting from 1Thes 4:16 through 1Thes 5:11 and that being, first the resurrection and catching away of the church and then the wrath of God. Notice that after Paul outlines the resurrection and catching away, he then in 1Thes 5:1 refers to it as “The Day of the Lord.” The first event is the resurrection and catching away and then the wrath of God follows. There is a big difference between the persecution that comes from men being munipulated by the powers of darkness and the wrath that comes directly from God, and God is not going to send his church through his wrath! This wrath is for an unbelieving world and is poured out during the tribulation in the form of seven seals, seven trumpets and seven bowls.
Dan,
Hi hope you are well. I believe those scripture in 1 Thessalonians are referring to Hell and the eternal punishment. There is evidence that Christians will be here during the tribulation.
The danger in thinking that Christians will be taken away from the tribulation is that when the tribulation begins they will not recognize it. I believe the first part of the tribulation will be different then after the two witnesses of Revelation 11.
Love,
John
Hi John! In response to your statement, I know exactly when the tribulation begins as does every other christian who does a thourough study of the word of God. If I was going to be here on the earth at that time, as soon as I heard the report on the news that a man has made a seven year covenant of peace with Israel and allowing them to build their temple on the temple mount, I would know that this would be the beginning. Three and a half years later, in the middle of that seven year period, I would know that he will break his covenant and will set up the abomination of desolation in the holy place spoken of by Daniel(Dan 9:27)and by Jesus (Mt.24:15) and also mentioned in (Rev 13:14-15). In the middle of the seven year period is when the mark of the beast becomes manditory (Rev 13:16), Satan and his angels are finally cast out of heaven (Rev 12:7-10) and the beast is given authority to make war against the saints for the last 3 1/2 years until Christ returns(Dan 7:25)&(Rev.13:7). Also, all I would have to do is follow along with each one of the seals as they are opened, which would lead into the seven trumpet judgments, which would lead into the seven bowl judgments. If I was going to be here on earth during that time, I could tell you exactly what the next judgement was going to be just by following along in the book of Revelation. By the time the judgements of God have been completed and the false christ has done all that he will do, Jesus’ saying will be fulfilled when he said in Matthew 24:22:
“If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.”
According to my studies, there will only be approximately a half billion people left on earth based on the current 6 billion. There are only two places in the book of revelation that gives a percentage of how many people die, which is found in(Rev 6:6-7)and (Rev 9:15) and those percentages add up to half the world’s population. What is not mentioned are how many people die from the first three trumpets, as well as from the bowl judgements
I am not a newbee just rattling off scripture to prove my view. My concern is and has always been the accuracy of the word of God, which means that I have to know what I am talking about. So, if you are going to give me your view on eschatology and theology, please provide scripture, otherwise it is only based on what you think and not what God’s word says. Also, I always include scripture verses to backup my claims, so I would appeciate it if you would actully read the scriptures that I have provided above before responding, for these are the proof of what I am proclaiming. Whenever you are responding it has to be based on the word of God, otherwise it is just assumption on yours or anyone elses part.
Also, regarding your response to 1Thes 4:16 that it is referring to Hell, there is nothing in that scripture speaking about Hell at all, as the word does not even appear, neither does the context support that. The scripture is speaking about the resurrection of the dead in Christ and immediately following that, the catching away of those who are still alive in Christ, which encompasses the entire church dead and living. Only a person who is ignorant of the word of God would not be able to recognize the tribulation period if they were in it, because in contrast to the resurrection and catching away, there are a multitude of Signs that will signal the Lord’s return to the earth. In fact, if I was here during the time of the tribulation and the greatest earthquake to ever shake the earth took place, along with 100 lb hailstones falling from the sky, I would know that the seventh bowl judgemnet had just taken place and then just after that, I would know that Jesus would then be returning. But, the wrath of God would not be over, for as soon as Jesus returns, the beast and the false prophet are cast alive into the lake of fire (Rev 19:20), the kings of the world and their armies that will have gathered in the valley of Megiddo will be killed and the birds will eat their flesh(Rev 19:17) and Satan will be cast into the Abyss and sealed for the thousand year reign of Christ (Rev 20:1-3) Now, do you still think that I would not know when the tribulation was here, seeing that I just told you everything that is going to happen ahead of time? Read the scriptures above. Be like the Bereans who checked the scriptures daily to see if what Paul was saying was true (Acts 17:11).
My hope is that God will give you insite to all that I have shared with you for the strengthening of your faith and insite into His word.
Yours in Christ – Don
And what if the man on the news did NOT report a covenant??
What if you were not told of any deal??
What if …
How then would you know??
Excuse me for laughing, but the news agencies not covering a peace agreement between Israel and Palestine would be like the moon disappearing and the news agencies not telling anyone. You mean that nation “Israel” that is on the news every night talking about peace agreements between them and Palistine? That Israel? Do you actually think that if a seven year peace contract was finally made with Israel that the whole world would not know about it immediately?! Just turn on the news on any given night and there will be something regarding Isreal and Palestine on. I tell you the truth, if a seven year peace agreement was made between Isreal and Palestine, every tv station on the air would be covering it, in every country around the world. But, just for the sake of your question, which was:
“And what if the man on the news did NOT report a covenant?”
I would simply observe the events of the wrath of God that would follow the seven year covenant, which would be the seven seals, seven trumpets and seven bowl judgments and those, no one could miss, because God will be the one executing them and they will affect the entire earth. But here is how I would know that I was in the tribulation period even if the news didn’t announce a seven year peace agreement for Israel, which is ludicrous.
1st seal: White Horse – Beast revealed (Rev.6:1).
2nd seal: Red Horse – Worldwide WAR (Rev 6:4)
3rd seal: Black Horse – Worldwide famine and disease (Rev.6:8)
4th seal: Pale Horse – 1/4 of the earths population killed by War,
famine, disease and wild beasts of the earth (Rev.6:7).
5th seal: Martyrs under the altar
(Rev.6:9-10) Parenthetic pause, No judgment here.
6th Seal: Great earthquake, sun turns black like sackcloth, moon turns blood red, stars (meteors/asteroids) fall to the earth, everyone hides in the mountains and caves among the rocks and calls for the rocks to fall on them and hide them from God because he is pouring his wrath out on them. (Rev.6:12-17)
7th Seal: 1/2 hour of silence in heaven, the prayers of the saints with incense go up before god and the seven angels are given their trumpets for the next set of judgemnets (Rev.8:1-5)
1st Trumpet: 1/3 of the earth and 1/3 of all the trees are burnt up (Rev.8:7)
2nd Trumpet: Something like a huge mountain all ablaze (asteroid or meteorite) is throne into the sea, which turns the sea blood red, kills all the creatures in that sea and destroys all the ships from the gigantic mile high waves that will be created because of it, which adds up to 1/3 over all the earth (Rev.8:8-9)
3rd Trumpet: Something like a great torch (Nuclear fallout?) falls on 1/3 of the rivers and springs of waters turning them bitter and many people die from drinking it (Rev.8:10-11).
4th Trumpet: 1/3 of the sun, moon and stars are darkened so that there will be 1/3 less light during the day and night (Rev.8:12)
5th Trumpet/First Woe: Demonic beings are let out of the Abyss to torment mankind for 5 months by stinging them with stingers like scorpions have
(Rev.9:1-11)
6th Trumpet/Second Woe: The four evil angels that have been bound at the great river Euphrates are released and go and gather 200 million mounted troops (ibid-demons) and kill 1/3 of the people on the earth by fire, smoke and sulfur that proceeds out of the mouths of the horses that have heads that resemble Lions heads
(Rev.9:12-19).
7th Trumpet/Third Woe: There is war in heaven and Satan and his angels are finally thrown out of heaven to the earth and are now able to concentrate the full force of their malice and evil upon mankind (Rev.12:7-17).
1st Bowl: God causes painful ugly sores to break out on those who have received the mark of the beast
Rev.16:1-2).
2nd Bowl: God turns the oceans waters into literal blood (Rev.16:3).
3rd Bowl: God turns the fresh water into blood, because the people of the earth will be responsible for the shed blood of his saints and prophets and so, he gives them blood to drink
(Rev.16:4-7)
4th Bowl: God scorches people on the earth with the heat of the sun and are seared by the intense heat
(Rev.16:8-9)
5th Bowl: God plunges the kingdom of the beast into darkness (confusion, disorder, chaos) interupting his kingdom (Rev.16:10-11)
6Th Bowl: The great river Euphrates is dried up to make way for the kings of the east to come across for the gathering of Armegeddon.
7th Bowl: The greatest earthquake the world has ever experienced takes place and because of it, the cities of the nations collapse, the mountains and the islands disappear and hailstones that weight about 100 lbs each will fall upon mankind (Rev.16:17-21).
And that is how I would know if I was in the tribulation period, that is if I was going to be there. I think that you will agree that no one could miss those events. I would just watch each event take place, one, by one and follow along in the book of Revelation. Now, these seals, trumpets and bowls are the wrath of God that is being poured out; I didn’t even list the things that the beast does that would let me know that I was in the tribulation period. The things that are mentioned above would be imposible to miss, don’t ya think?
Don,
You are making a big assumption in thinking that all true believers will be spared from the tribulation. God always tests his followers. He never gives us a free pass. I’m afraid we will all get to see the prophecies come true, whether we know what is going to happen or not. Just because you understand the prophecy doesn’t mean you won’t have to experience it. Many people will know what is going on – anyone with a bible or a book or movie on prophecy will be able to tell what is going to happen next, but its a big planet, so many will be in the dark and the Antichrist will win them over.
So just because you will be there doesn’t mean you can save the world by tipping them off to what’s happening. Actually, do you know what the biggest tip-off of the Antichrist would be? It would be the sudden disappearance of half the worlds population when all the Christians are raptured!
But with no Christians left on earth, what use is an Antichrist? He will have no followers. The devil wants to steal Gods worship. With only Muslims, Buddhists and Hindus left on earth his great purpose will be foiled. The entire concept is not logical. All those faithful who are supposed to be martyred for not taking the mark of the beast will already be raptured so that scripture is not logical.
It is as illogical as thinking that the entire worlds economy can be converted to a cashless system in the time frame of the tribulation. Maybe the US but not the world.
I have heard a lot about the chip but as far as I can determine, it won’t make any difference which hand it is inserted into. You mentioned the wand you stick out the window to pay for gas (my friend used one of those ten years ago) and I realized that it makes more sense to put it in your left hand since we drive from the left side of the car, so that will solve the mark problem for most Americans! I pity the poor Brits though.
So as long as the scripture is literal, lets start passing the word to use your left hand so we can still buy and sell while spoiling the plan of the beast.
Please don’t tell me that the word “Right” is symbolic and means either hand. You can’t have it both ways.
Hello again James!
In regards to the church not going through the tribulation, you are missing the point. I mentioned this in another post and that is that, this time of tribulation is not going to be your typical persecution by man and the powers of darkness. This will be God directly pouring out his wrath on an unbelieving world in the form of the seven seals, seven trumpets and seven bowl judgments for the purpose of repentance and to bring judgment upon those who will not repent and therefore, he is not going to pour his wrath out upon his church. The true church has already said ‘Yes’ to Jesus, why would God then pour out his wrath upon us when we have already repented? In effect, these judgments will be the equivalent of God yelling louder to get people’s attention to repent, while at the same time punishing those who won’t.
The other issue that you are not understanding is that, there are going to be 144,000 Pauls on the earth preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ, as well as two witness in Jerusalem doing the same and bringing whatever plagues they want to upon the earth, as many time as they want to. This preaching with the fact that the church is gone, will get many people seriously thinking and there will be a great harvest of souls during the tribulation period. Such a great harvest that of them John says in Rev.7:9,
“After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb.”
Then in the following verses, the elder tells John that “These are those who have come out of the great tribulation.”
We, the believer in Christ according to Paul, are not appointed to God’s wrath, which is exactly what will be going on during that seven years leading up to Christ’s return to set up his millennial kingdom, which is different from when he comes to gather the church in the air and to immediately take us back to the father’s house in heaven (John 14:1-3).
There will be a gathering of the church in the air prior to God’s wrath and then, at the end of the great tribulation Jesus will come back to the earth with us following behind him on white horses (Rev.19:14) to end all human goverment and to set up his kingdom (Dan.2:44).
People are always claiming that, the early church never taught a pre-tribulation resurrection and catching away, but that is in fact exactly what the early chuch believed and taught. Paul outlined the sequence of events clearly in 1 Thes.4:13-18 through
1 Thes.5:11, which is, first the resurrection and catching away takes place and then the wrath of God follows.
“We are not in darkness so that this day should suprise us like a thief”
“Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also [keep you from] the hour of trial that is going to come upon the [whole world] to test those who live on the earth.”
The above is Jesus’ promise to those in the church who are overcomers and he says, “I will keep you from that hour of trial.”
In closing, I believe that we, as those in Christ, should be like Shadrach, meshach and Abednego in that we would rather be willing to die than to deny the name of Jesus and the gospel or worship any other but the creator.
Don,
Hi hope you are well. Thank you for your words. I certainly appreciate your strict adherence to scripture.
What about the two witnesses in Revelation 11? They prophesy for three and a half years. You haven’t added that fact into your time frame.
Love,
John
Good day John!
In regards to the two witnesses, this is what I believe about the timing of their prophecy and why. I believe that the two witnesses will begin their 3 1/2 years of prophecy starting at the beginning of the seven year period in Jerusalem. The reason why I lean towards this instead of them beginning at the middle of the seven is because, it is stated that no one will be able to kill them until the days of their prophecy have been completed (Rev 11:7), which says:
“Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them and over power and kill them.”
It also says that no one will be able to kill them until their 1260 days (3 1/2 years) are over and if anyone tries, they will be killed by fire coming from the witnesses mouths. A lot of supernatural events will be taking place during this time to say the least!
This beast is the same beast that is the king over those demons who come out of the Abyss at the 5th trumpet (Rev 9:11) and since the Abyss is opened at that time, I’m guessing that he will waste no time coming out and killing those two witnesses, which would put the 5th trumpet taking place at the middle of the seven. The other reason I believe that they begin their prophecy from the beginning of the seven and are killed at the middle of the seven is because, the abomination that is set up in the holy place causes the desolation of Jerusalem and therefore, at that time all the Jews will have left being cared for 3 1/2 years by God in the wilderness. Also, if you have the two witnesses starting their prophecy from the middle of the seven, there will be no one there to listen to them because of the desolation and it would also put their being killed at the time of Christ’s return. Anyway, that is my take on it. I hope this answered your question and do you have a theory on the time line of the two witnesses? By the way, regarding those two witnesses, I believe that they are going to be the two who John, Peter and James saw with Jesus when he was transfigured and that being Moses and Elijah (Mt.17:1-4).
There has been many peace treaties with Israel, and the Arabs broke all of them. The Oslo treaty was 7 years long, and we are not in the tribulation…..or maybe we are?
Daniel spoke of a final week, but the time of Jacob’s trouble is only 3 1/2 years.
Also, the book of Daniel does NOT say that the covenant with many is with Israel……just that many people will be involved with this covenant.
It could be a covenant of anti-Israel forces that precedes Israel’s invasion. It also does not say that the covenant is a public one. It could be done in secret as a conspiracy against Israel.
The results may be a surprise to Israel, as the sudden influx of forces causes its people to flee Jerusalem.
Hi Marianne!
The only problem with your theory is that, the verse states the following:
“He will confirm a covenant with many for one seven. In the middle of the seven (here’s the part you need to pay attention to), he will put an end to sacrifie and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.”
So obviously, those who he is making this covenant with is for one, Israel because as stated, he breaks the covenant and causes the daily sacrifice to cease and sets up the abomination of desolation in the holy place (Mt 24:15). That holy place is the room just outside the holy of holies where the ark of the covenant rested in the Solomon’s temple. The mention of daily sacrifice and the holy place within the temple points us to Israel, no doubt about it. Besides all that, I gave you a big list of sequencial events of the seals, trumpets and bowls, which would tell me I was in the tribulation period. I’m pretty sure by watching the news and knowing the history between Israel and Palistine, that Palistine is included in the “covenant with many.” Also, we know from scripture that it is that image, the abomination of desolation that causes the desolation or fleeing as you put it. That’s why it is referred to as “the abomination that causes desolation.” It gets set up, the Jews flee! This event happens in the middle of the seven.
Aloha!
You depend way too much on the news and besides what do you know of history?
More than this sir Don McAllister are you aware that Israel is a British colony?
The Israel government does NOT make a move without ORDERS from London and the Vatican.
And now we have also the E.U. running the program.
And as for the history of Palestine are you deeply aware that there are many many Jews that live within its borders?
I do agree with Marianne and her brilliant comment.
‘The results may be a surprise to Israel.’
I hope for your sake that you know history and are truly guided by ‘The Living Spirit.’ of God.
And what do YOU think the ‘abomination that causes desolation’ IS?
And please do not just simply tell me its an image for that would be callous.
*
Thank you sir.
Aloha Abigail! I’m guessing that you are from Hawaii or are living in Hawaii? First I would like to apoligize if I have offened you in any way, that is not my intention here. I thank your feedback regarding the word of God. I believe my zealousness for the accuracy of God’s word has overwhelmed me. In regards to Irael, I would rather believe that things will take place for them in regards to God’s will and not Britan’s, the E.U. or any other entity. My thinking is that, Israel and Palistine have always been waring. Palistine (Muslims) control the temple mount, which is the only place that Israel will build their temple to begin animal sacrifices and temple worship, but of course the dome of the rock and the muslim presence keeps them from doing this. So, the timing for this antichrist to make his appearance is perfect in that, he will fulfill the muslims awaited 12th Imam and for Israel, their long awaited Messiah, since they did not receive Jesus as their Messiah. I believe that by this covenant, this beast will appease both sides allowing the Jews to build their temple on the temple mount, but in the actual location of the holy of holies, since they have goood reason to believe that the dome of the rock does not sit on the actual site of the holy of holies. If you would like to know my thoughts on the “abomination of Desolation”, please do a search on that same title and look for my posting. I have a in depth posting titled “The Abomination of Desolation.” Something that I mention in that post is that, I believe that this abomination is related to the mark of the beast. Please see my post for a description of this. Thank you for your feedback.
Yours in Christ – Don
Hi Don
I would consider any peace treaty, and the abomination mutually exclusive events.
I think the enemy is in the midst of Israel due to invasion, not due to a peaceful settlement.
Good day Marianne! I would also like to apologize to you too if I have offended you in any way as that is not my purpose here. Daniel describes the seven year covenant and the breaking of that covenant in the middle for the purpose of setting up that abomination. The difference between this covenant that is coming is that, I believe that the false christ will allow the Jews to rebuild their temple, which has previously not been accomplished by anyone. The first part of the 3 1/2 will be a false peace (when they say peace and safety, then comes sudden destruction) and then at the middle point of that seven year period comes the destruction. The abomination that is set up in the holy place is what causes the desolation of Jerusalem, which is why Jesus says therefore, when you see the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, then let those in Judea flee to the mountains, let no one on the roof of his house go down to take anything out. Let no one in the field go back to get his cloak, etc (Mt.24:15-18), in other words, get the heck out of Dodge!
Don
You are fine with me. I just put out thoughts for others to discuss.
I do not understand your paragraph ‘How many God’s are there? There is one God, yet the Father is God, Jesus is God and the Holy Spirit is called God. Now how many God’s do you have? You have three distinct entities that all fall under the designation of “One God”, yet there are three.’
This makes no SENSE.
Hear O Israel the Lord our God The Lord is ONE.
Not 3 but 1
*
do consider those words.
Hello Abigail! The reason that I wrote this to Silvan “How many God’s are there?” was because I was using it to bring his attention to the fact that, just because the word “First” as in first resurrection does not mean only one. I brought up God, because, in the word of God, the Father is designated as God, Jesus is designated as God and the Holy Spirit is designated as God, but yet they are three individual entities, but one God. This was my point about the resurrection that, though the phrase “first resurrection” is used, there are other resurrections that take place, which are under the banner of “first resurrection.” The reason I said this was because, Jesus was the first fruits of the first resurrection, then the church will be resurrected and caught up, the male child in Rev 12, the two witnesses, those who come out of the great tribulation and then you have those who will die duing the millennial period and they will at some point be resurrected and therefore, the first resurrection could be better understood as the resurrection that takes place prior to the last one. The last resurrection, which is at the end of the millennium is the bad resurrection of which the book of revelation says, blessed are those who take part in the first resurrection, for on such the second death has no power, which immediately infers that anyone who does not partake in the first resurrection, that the second death does have power over, they’re doomed! In short, my point is that “first” does not mean “Just one”, but there are a couple of resurrections that take place prior to the last one, which is at the end of the millennium that fall under the label of “First Resurrection.” In closing, I believe in one God, made up of three persons, but one God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I hope that clears things up.
Maybe one way to look at this is as The Spirit of God says.
‘You will know the beast by its ‘tracks.’
A beast in the norm always leaves tracks and understand this with your soul and not with your mind.
Your mind is a field of battle.
Your soul is attached to God and with Him there are no secrets.
Hi again Abigail!
In this case, the tracks of the beast would be the characteristics that are written about him throughout the word of God. So, when we begin to see the characteristics of the beast begin to manifest, such as the technology for his mark and the world being set up for a cashless society, then we can know that the time is near and that beast is coming whom Jesus will cast into the lake of fire. (Rev.19:20)
Don,
Hi hope you are well.
I believe you are correct that the two witnesses will be in the form of Elijah and Moses. But recall John the Baptist was in the form of Elijah. That is the nature of their spirits will be in that fashion but not literally Moses and Eljah.
Regarding a Judge in the Old Testament it required two witnesses to put anyone to death. These witnesses will hold a very significant role in the Day of Judgement. Also these two I believe will be laying down the frame work for the government of the 1000 year reign.
Regarding the time I always thought that they would be between the two parts of the tribulation. They will have awesome power and their power will be supreme. To strike the Earth with any plagues.
It was my thoughts that the first part of the tribulation will be deception. With the testimony of these two the truth will be laid out cleary for all to see. With their death and subsequent ressurection the devil will be exposed and satan will know he is defeated. Satan will then have the peoples of the Earth worship him as god without any pretenses.
I could go on but I would like to hear your thoughts on this matter.
A word of caution many have thought they knew things for certain regrading Revelation only to be proven wrong. It is a complex book that must be tied into the entire Bible.
Love,
John
Hi again John!
Yes, I know that when John the baptist came that he was that Elijah that was prophecied to come, that is, he came in the spirit of Elijah, which is why the Jews still set an empty place for him at their feast. They did not understand that, John the Baptist was that Elijah who was to come. But, in regards to the two witnessess, It could be two men in the spirit of Moses and Elijah, but I lean towards that the two witnesses will actully be Moses and Elijah, who are the two that appeared with Jesus in his transfiguration. But as I said, that is my take on it. Yes, they will have awesome power to bring as many plagues on the earth as they want and as often as they want (Rev.11:5-6), even killing their enemies with fire proceeding from their mouths. Regarding the first part of the seven years, yes, it will be a time of false peace (when they say peace and safety, destruction will come upon them suddenly.” The Jews will think that he is their Messiah up until the middle of the seven when he sets up his abomination, then this is the beginning of Jacobs trouble (Jer.30:6-7). In regards to God’s word and understanding it, I am continually searching it for my own accuracy, because if it was to proclaim my own point of view, my studies would be in vain.
Yours in Christ – Don
Tell me how can a literal verichip be the mark of the beast.
Which commandment of God would one have broken to accept the chip?
How is rebellion against God and the chip intertwined?
Although the chip is an invasion of the body and of the personality and of the activities
of the individual at all levels whether be it financial, health etc.
It does most certainly implies servitude to the system or even slavery, I somehow do not see which Law of God one breaks if one becomes a slave.
Now on the other hand the one who imposes slavery is a master.
But history clearly shows that slavery and mastery is not a new thing.
And owners of slaves and beasts have historically always marked their property with some type of brand.
It is a system that seems to have evolved only in the form of branding.
Having said this … we now find in Scriptures that God Himself set a sign between His People and Himself. Deuteronomy 6: 1-17 and 11:18
Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
So now having been given a choice of servitude who will this day you choose to serve??
Rev 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, [which is] new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and [I will write upon him] my new name.
You know that whomever you bow the knee to you will serve.
The mark of God is ‘The Torah’.
The mark of the beast or the empire is the mark of rebellion which is slavery …
in whichever form it comes.
If you don’t want the mark of the beast then you must bow your knee to The Law of God.
Simple as that!
God will protect ‘HIS’ people and He does.
So if you have understanding of this basic ‘TRUTH’ then repent to God because you have broken His Law and turn away from your rebellion against The Most High or else you will go into slavery.
Simple and TRUE!!
Hello again Abigail!
In answer to your question below:
“Tell me how can a literal verichip be the mark of the beast.
Which commandment of God would one have broken to accept the chip? How is rebellion against God and the chip intertwined?”
These are good questions and here the answers:
First of all, this beast who is coming has a couple of other designations those being, antichrist, man of lawlessness and son of destruction, just to name of few. During that last seven years, he is going to be proclaiming himself to literally be God and will be worshiped (2 Thes.2:4;Rev 13:8).
This mark, as stated in (Rev.13:16-17) is the beasts mark. So, it is directly linked to him, as belonging to him. Those verses also say that no one will be able to “buy or sell” unless a person as his mark. The verses also say that the mark goes in the right hand or the forehead, that is, this is where it physically be placed on the body. For the last 30 years, the world has been moving towards a cashless society, which has been and will continue to do so up until that antichrist comes. Within the last several years we have had a device manufactured by ADS, which is implanted under the skin (subdermal) for the purpose of making purchases in the same manner as the POS system works, and that, make a purchase, swipe your card and your bank account is debited. This device is being used in the same way, except instead of swiping your card, you chip, which the skin would be canned and then your bank account would be debited. This system is already in use and you will begin to see this technology being used more and more as we continue on into the future.
That said, as time goes on, this mark (chip) will run paralell with cash, checks, debit an credit up until the middle of that seven year period, where at some time the antichrist will make the other methods of purchasing obsolete, leaving only his mark to be able to make puchases, that is to buy and sell. And by removing the other buying methods, the inhabitance of the earth will be [forced] to receive that mark, because at that time, the mark will be the only way to puchase or sell.
Now, since it is the beast mark and he is getting rid of the other methods of buying and selling, anyone receiving it will be pledging their allegience to the beast. Rememeber, he is going to be proclaiming himself to literally be God and people will be receiving [his mark] to save their lives and by doing so, will be turning their backs on the true God whose Son shed his blood for them. Remember also that, this antichrist will be speaking against God and all who dwell in heaven, as well as killing his saints, so you can see how one would be worshiping the false christ by receiving his mark. The inhabitance of the earth whose names were not written in the book of life from before the world began, will receive his mark and worship him because they love their lives more than God.
To further answer your question:
“Which commandment of God would one have broken to accept the chip?”
By receiving that mark (chip) to be able to buy or sell and thereby worshiping the beast, you would be breakng the following in (Deut 6:16 and Matthew 4:7)
“Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.”
Hi Do,
if you got the time, please tell me on which of the multiple first resurrections the “catching away” takes place, in your opinion.
Did you note that the male child from the woman is Jesus, who shall rule with a rod of iron?
Hi Silvan, hope all is well!
First, you have to understand that in the following verses of (1Thes.4:13-18; 1Cor 15:51), there are two events taking place with the same fulfillment. The first one is the resurrection of those who have died in Christ from the inseption of the church up until this event takes place. In this resurrection, those whose bodies are in the ground will be raised and regenerated, taking on those characteristics that Paul mentions in 1Cor.15:42-44:
“This body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power.”
When Jesus descends from heaven, he will bring with him the souls of those who have died in him and will reunite them with their resurrected bodies. As I said, this will happen in a split second, then once the resurrection has taken place, those people in Christ who are still alive at the time that the resurrection takes place, will then be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye and will be caught up in the clouds with those who were just resurrected and all will meet the Lord in the air where he will take us back to the Father’s house (John 14:1-3).
In contrast to the resurrection and catching away mentioned in 1Thes 4:16, the resurrection mentioned in Revelation 20:4 is only a resurrection for those who died during the great tribulation, who would not worship the beast or his image or received his mark and there is no catching away of the living accompanied with this resurrection.
I believe that the resurrection and catching away stated in
1Thes 4:16 and 1Cor 15:51 is specifically the resurrection and catching away of the entire church, dead and living prior to the tribulation period. The resurrection that takes place stated in Rev 20:4 is a resurrection only of those saints who will beheaded during the tribulation period. These are those people who will come to Christ after the Church has been resurrected and caught up.
In regards to the “male child”, I believe that they are sysnonymous with the 144,000, that is, the male child that the woman (Israel) gives birth to are those 144,000 from the twelve tribes of Israel that are sealed in Rev 7, who are the first fruits to God. In regards to that phrase that you keep bringing up, there three groups of which it is said “They shall rule with an iron septer”, one is Jesus stated in (Rev 19:15), next the promise is made to overcomers in the letter to the church in Tyatira found in (Rev.2:26-27) and the third place it is mentioned is to the “male child” found in (Rev.12:5)
This group of 144,000 are the first fruits to God that the nation Israel (the woman) gives birth to. The meaning of giving birth to them is that, this 144,000 come to the knowledge that Jesus is their Messiah, something that the nation Israel did not acknoledge at his first visit, hence the giving birth to. They are seen in Rev.14 with Jesus after beeing resurrected (caught up to God’s throne). I do not believe that the verse about the male child is referring to Jesus even though you could make it fit. In regards to the male child, notice that it states that “She (Israel) gives birth to a “male child” and then take notice that all of the 144,000 are all males. Now, if you going to ask me how I know that the 144,000 are all male, it is because of the following verse found in Rev.14:4, which says:
“These are those who did not defile themselves with woman, for they kept themselves pure.” (all males)
This group of 144,000 will have never have committed any type of sexual immorality, for They are the pure out of Israel and are a seperate group to Christ, just as the church is a seperate group, as well as are the tribulation saints a seperate group.
I hope this helps you. Of course, you need to read the verses that I have listed here for yourself and study them, so that you can know the truth of these things in your own spirit and not just because someone told you.
Thank you for your fellowship.
Yours in Christ – Don
Hey Don, you seem to know a lot about who gets resurrected when. What about the Jews such as Abraham, Isaac, Joseph, Noah etc? Since they did not die in Christ are they doomed to the last resurrection of the wicked? Seems a shame, they were such nice guys.
And as for Rev, 20:4, there is no resurrection mentioned here. These people on the thrones are God’s elect – those few percent of Christians who did not receive the mark of the beast. Verse 6 refers to them as blessed and holy who took part in the first resurrection. And they will be priests of God and reign with him 1000 years. So if these bethroned elect are so special why weren’t they raptured with everybody else?
If the so-called catching away happens in 1Thes 4:16 why does it say:
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. This rapture happens as God and his archangels are returning from heaven. Is this to happen twice then – once before the Antichrist takes power and a second performance at the end of the tribulation?
Sounds like the second coming of Jesus to me, not a clandestine removal of 3 billion Christians while no one is looking.
As for 1Cor 15:52: in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. Sounds like the last trumpet of revelation to me – at the end of the tribulation. Where does it say there will be trumpets just before the Antichrist takes power?
It does not compute Mr. Spock. Reset your scanners and try again.
I am afraid that there will only be one second coming and we will all have to sit thru the tribulation if we are to witness it.
Hello,
First, regarding the resurrection of the old testament saints such as Abraham, Issac, Jacob, etc. This is the angel Gabriel speaking to Daniel regarding Israel:
“At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people-everyone whose name is found written in the book – will be delivered. Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.”
The words “will be delivered” and “will awake” refers to their resurrection, as they are identified as those who sleep in the dust of the earth. So, it appears that the old testament saints will also be resurrected when Jesus returns at the end of that time of distress, which it the end of the age.
The time of “great distress” that Gabriel mentions is synonymous with what Jesus said in Mt.24:21
“For then there will be great distress, unequaled form the beginning of the world until now – and never to be equaled again.”
Second, you said that there is no resurrection mentioned in Rev.20:4, did you even read the verse?
“And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. THEY CAME TO LIFE and reigned with Christ a thousand years”
Since the verse is speaking about those who were beheaded, the words “They came to life” in the verse above is referring to their resurrection. For the Greek word for resurrection is “Anastasis” which denotes “a rising up from the dead or to cause to stand” So, how is it that you say that there is no resurrection mentioned here? What other name would you give to describe people have been beheaded and then come back to life? This is without question the resurrection of the tribulation saints.
Third, you said:
“So if these bethroned elect are so special why weren’t they raptured with everybody else?
The reason why these who will come out of the great tribulation are not caught up with the church (raptured) is because, these are those who will receive Christ after the resurrection and the catching away of the church takes place in 1 Thes.4:16. This group of saints do not belong to the church. If you will notice, the last time the word “church/Ekklesia) is used is at the very end of Revelation chapter 3 and then it is never used again in the narritve and that is because the church is resurrected and caught up at that point. From Revelation chapter 4 on, believers are referred to as “Hagios/Saints” and from then on are never referred to as the church and the reason for that is because the church is gone.
Fourth, you said:
“This rapture happens as God and his archangels are returning from heaven”
The verse does not say that he returns with his angels, but “with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel (singular). There is no mention of other angels here. To assume that there are more angels would be to read into the scripture what is not there. Furthermore, the verse says nothing about the Lord returning to the earth, but only to meet us in the air.
“After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.”
Those that are resurected and those who are changed and caught up meet the Lord in the air and then the promise that Jesus made to his disciples will be fulfilled when he said in John 14:1-3:
“In my Father’s house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am.”
You have to understand that the church, old testament saints, the 144,000, the great tribulation saints are individual groups. For example, the great tribulation saints are not apart of the church and neither are any of the other groups. The catching away in 1 Thes 4:16 is specifically a resurrection and catching away of the church prior to God pouring his wrath out on the earth during the tribulation period and his wrath is why the church is being removed. The second coming of Christ to the earth to set up his kingdom is a seperate event from the resurrection and catching away of the church. In the resurrection and catching away of the church, the Lord meets us in the air and takes us back to the Father’s house. In Rev 19 he is literally returning to the earth to take care of the beast and the false prophet, the armies that will be gathered against him, to kill all those who commit sin and do wrong, to bring an end to human government and to have Satan cast into the Abyss during his thousand year reign. Your problem regarding the resurrection and the second coming is that you, like others assume that they are the same event, but in fact they are not.
And as I said, the church will not go though the wrath of God.
hi James,
Abraham, Isaac, Joseph, Noah would have been taken to heaven when Jesus rose from the dead 2000 years ago. They died in faith, so their bodies would be part of the resurrection of the righteous.
Hi Marianne, James,
In regards to the old testament saints, none of them have been resurrected yet. the Resurrection always has to do with the dead body rising again. This has not yet taken place for the old testament saints. Prior to the Christ’s sacrifice, the righteous dead went to a place of paradice, which was located across from Hades and dived by a great chasm. After Jesus was crucifed, their souls where lead out of that place and taken to heaven, but only their souls/spirits where taken. Their bodies are still in the earth and will be resurrected at the end of the trbulation period just as the angel Gabriel told Daniel they would (Dan 12). For information regarding this place of paradice where Abraham and Lazarus were, read Luke 16:19-31. This is the same place that the angels took Lazarus when he died and the rich man was right across the way in Hades, a place of torment in flame, which is where all of the lost dead go at the time of death. In contrast, the souls of the righteous go to be in the presence of the Lord when they die, but their bodies sleep in the ground until they are resurrected.
That is what I meant. 🙂
Yes Don, I knew all that (although Marianne disagrees) – I was just wondering why you left them out of your description of the first resurrection. Thanks for the clarification.
Slaves do not own anything so don’t worry about loosing … you ever owned it!
And here is something else to think about unfortunately …
Hi Abigail!
I believe that one of the near future pope’s will in fact be that false prophet, which means that he will have the chatholic institution in his hip pocket. I believe that the RCC (Roman Catholic Church) is the woman who rides the beast in Rev 17 & 18. She is and will be that false religious system that the beast will use during that last seven years.
Don,
Excuse me but I certainly do Not agree with your concept of Israel, of the 144,000,
of gender relationship to those marked with The Fathers’ Name, and your idea of ‘never have committed any type of sexual immorality’.
I’ve tried on several occasions to see things YOUR way and now for the last time,
I am completely out of this conversation.
Hi Abigail!
I am only reporting what is written and regarding the 144,000 the word of God says:
“These are those who did not defile themselves with [women], for they kept themselves pure.”
So, in regards to this information regarding the 144,000, is it that you do not believe what is written? Since it is said of these 144,000 that they did not defile themselves with women, then there is only one logical conclusion about their gender and that is that this group is made up specifically of men from the twelve tribes of Israel. I haven’t told you anything different than what the verse above says. Read it for yourself and you will see that I haven’t said anything different than what the verse state, unless of course you adopt a symbolic meaning, in which case, you can make it mean anything you want.
PS In regards to what you said:
“Excuse me but I certainly do Not agree with your concept of Israel”
How could it be my [concept] when all I did was repeat what is written in God’s word?
Since it says of the 144,000 that they did not defile themselves with women, then they have to be men.
Hi Don
I think she is ok with the 144000 being male virgins.
The aspect that the male child in Rev 12 represents them, instead of all faithful Israel, is the snag.
How did you come up with this?
only males are saved?
that leaves us women out!!!!
Morning Marianne!
I think that there is some confusion here regarding this and so I will reiterate what I had stated in a previous post.
The woman of Rev 12 represents Israel as identitfied by Jacob when he responded to Joseph’s dream in Genesis 37:9-10. This is the nation Israel and not the church. The church is gone before any of this happens, so this has nothing to do with us.
The 144,000 are 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes of Israel that are deemed as the first fruits to God out of Israel, they are first fruits because they are 144,000 who come to the knowledge that Jesus is their messiah, which is what is meant by the woman giving birth to them. The woman is cared for in the wilderness from the middle of the seven year period up until Christ returns. Also, the mention of the 144,000 not defiling themselves with men does not necessarily mean that they are unmarried, as being married would not consitute a married couple as being defiled. I believe that it infers that they never committed sexual immmorality of any kind, for they are pure. Marriage does not defile anyone, for God created it.
So to recap:
The woman = Literal Israel. She flees into the wilderness as soon as the abomination of desolation is set up in the holy place of the temple. The woman will confess Jesus as their Messiah sometime before Jesus returns.
The 144,000 = Literal Israel(male child) who the woman gives birth to, in that, they are selected by God as first fruits out of Israel who believe in Jesus as their Messiah.
I hope that this helps clear this up. Both groups are Israel, the 144,000 that come out of Israel become believers in Jesus as Messiah and Israel the woman, flees into the wilderness and is cared for by God for 3 1/2 years.
PS While the 144,000 are all male, the woman who is Israel is made up of both male and female, which is obvious from what Jesus said regarding that time period:
“Woe to those who are pregnant and to nursing mothers” (Mt. 24)
I always though that damnation of hell for accepting some kind of mark was too harsh punishment, unless it is some kind of act of willingly selling one’s soul to the devil.
I also understand that abomination and desolation are two seperate things, I read in Zohar that in year 5773 (2012/13) there will occur period when G-d will completely hide Himself or His light from our universe (spiritual eclipse), thus – our planet will be left in state of desolation…this will allow Antichrist to commit act of abomination..so Antichrist cannot commit abomination, unless there is desolation…
Hello Gavriel! My name is Don, good to meet you. First, the reason why God’s punishment is so harsh is because God is Sovereign and because because these people will receive the antichrist’s mark to save their lives and will worship his image and himself literally as God and denying the Lord who shed his blood for them.
Also, the abomination of desolation go together hand in hand. The word “abomination” denotes idolatry as in the worshiping of a graven image. Matthew 24:15-25 makes it clear that this abomination is an image that is set up in the holy place within the Jewish temple. Revelation 13:14-15 reveals that this abomination is an image that will be made in the likeness of that that first beast (antichrit) and that if anyone would not worship the image of the beast, he must be killed. So, once this image gets set up in the holy place, the Jews will then realize that he is not their messiah and flee into the wilderness, which is the desolation, that is, this image being set up in the holy place causes the desolation of Jerusalem.
hi Gavriel
Is this Zohar available online in English? Or does it take special attention and it has to be read in Hebrew? Is there a summary somewhere? I think I asked this before, but do not remember the answer.
hi Marianne,
Yes:
https://www.kabbalah.com/k/index.php/p=zohar/zohar
It is arranged according to weekly Torah portions.
The Zohar was written by Moses De Leon in the 1500 with a very heavy Roman influence. De Leon tried to ascribe his work to some ancient Rabbi to be more believable.
Basically the Zohar declares man to be the Creator of the Universe.[1] While Maimonides and his followers regarded man as a fragment of the universe whose immortality is dependent upon the degree of development of his active intellect, the Zohar declared him to be the lord of the creation, whose immortality is solely dependent upon his morality.
Here is a quote from the Zohar …
“If you wish to strengthen a lie, mix a little truth in with it.”
The Zohar is rejected by the Hebrew University of Judaism in Jerusalem as a part roman text and thus not authentic and without authority.
But search it out for yourself.
http://www.answers.com/topic/zohar
Abigail,
Why do you trust secular scholarship? People who deny
authencity of Zohar are the same people who deny the Bible.
Please do not get me started, I studied in Hebrew university,
and attended lessons of Gershom Sholem (the person that for
years tried to prove that Zohar was written in Spain)…he
also criticized bible and Jewish ties to the holy land…
eventually, after 15 years of scholarship, he admitted that Zohar was written by Rabbi Shimon Bar Yochai in 3rd century in Israel, to his very dissapointment…
I don’t wish to ‘get you started’. But you must admit the Zohar is 50% Roman. Text like this ‘”The Ancient of Days has three heads. He reveals himself in three archetypes, all three forming but one.[4] He is thus symbolized by the number Three. They are revealed in one another.[4][These are:] first, secret, hidden ‘Wisdom’; above that the Holy Ancient One; and above Him the Unknowable One.[4] None knows what He contains; He is above all conception.[4] He is therefore called for man ‘Non-Existing’ [Ayin] …
suggest a Jesuit influence.
I want the truth and nothing less!
I am tired of seeing the ugly head of the babylonian peganism infiltrated amongst Sacred Scriptures.
It is not a pleasant blend!
‘The Holy Kabbalah’ was and still is an oral transmission to a very few.
Mysticism was always a sacred part of Judaism …. why ?
Simple … The Lord God works in the invisible.
And some students are privileged to see His Hand.
Read the Zohar with a critical eye.
And besides this The Zohar did not even have an accurate map of The Holy Land.
maybe the 3 heads was referring to Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in some cryptic way.??
Or maybe it is the old saying ‘3 heads are better than 1’ 🙂
But in a sacred way ‘The Lord God is one’.
Hi Don,
It says that the mark is for buying or selling, it doesn’t say that one would be killed if he rejects the mark, that’s how I understand it.
I agree. Idols stand for something, they are physical representation of spiritual entities, most of the time there are demons…image which Antichrist makes will be representation of Satan himself…
It says in the New Testament that Holy Spirit holds Satan from being revealed, until it comes out of the midst…this means that at certain moment Holy Spirit will no longer hold back Satan, and I think that this is the very moment that is called desolation –
when Holy Spirit no longer balances evil in this world…this will give space to abomination by erecting the image of Satan…I think these two events are seperated by certain time frame, very possibly first 3 and half years of tribulaton…
Hello,
Those who don’t receive the mark will not be able to make a living. They won’t be able to be apart of the world financial system, because at that time the only way to be able to perform credit and debit transactions will be through the use of that mark. Those who will not worship the image of the beast must be killed, But you can bet, even though it is not mentioned, for those who do not receive the mark, they will be enemies of the beast and his kingdom and the whole world will hate them. In fact, anyone who is for Christ will be an enemy.
I know i know nothing … lol
Every view here has some value and truth in it.
Everything seems to be possible.
In terms of “great deception” we have to think big, really big.
The whole world will be in love with Antichrist for 3,5 years.
Sci-Fi technic is available.
False Utopia is coming.
The religions will be unitd into a peaceful world religion.
Only one global satanic and decptive movement fits on this.
This one is especially for you Silvan …
It is a series which will interest you for sure as it may interest others as well …
This is # 7 and the end of the lecture but all 7 parts are interesting.
Don,
In response to your post about the idea that since the chip is nearly here close to the time of the second coming it can’t be a coincidence that it seems to fit the prophecy, just remember that us sabbath-keepers can also cite the fact that the pope has repeatedly called for mandatory Sunday worship. All he needs is a bit more power to be able to enforce it. It will not require a multi-trillion dollar investment and a complete overhaul of the entire banking system on the planet to make it happen either. You believe the pope will be the false prophet and enforce the mark, right? Have you read a Vatican report suggesting the chipping of the world? At least my theory is directly about worship, not symbolic worship thru a banking system. That does not sound God-like to me. It would be coerced worship and Satan doesn’t want that any more than God. Why after thousands of years of harping on keeping his commandments would God all of a sudden be so concerned about the banking system? Sure it seems to fit a literal translation, but the devil is not stupid and may actually have a clever plan to throw off even many of God’s elect, just as Jesus predicted of the AC. Remember, most of the world will be fooled and most believe as you do. I don’t like those odds so I’ll stick with the minority, thank you.
Greetings!
James, if you understood where we are in terms of technology, you would understand that the world is not going to require a
“complete overhaul of the entire banking system on the planet to make it happen either” the overhaul has been in progress for the last 30 years. The world is already using the chip technology by swiping their debit card and key-fobs to make purchases. All that would be required by businesses is to trade in their “Verifone” POS reader for one that can scan the chip with a wave of the hand. In saying that it will require a multi-million dollar investment, you make it sound like we are coming straight from the stone age into the future! The world is already utilizing this technology and it will not take much for each business to update their reader, which is all that will be required. Further more, by receiving the beasts mark for buying and selling you would be directily worshiping him, because it’s his mark. So, I asked this question earlier, as we continue to see people having this chip implanted under the skin, will you receive it to make purchases. Nobody responded to this question.
Well, I for one will gladly take the chip as I don’t believe it will be the mark of the beast. I have heard that the Bilderbergs plan to start chipping the world in 2018 but I don’t believe they are the beast, nor are the world banks or chip makers that would be used to make it all happen. If it happens in the U.S. it will be by order of congress (does that word add up to 666?). There will be thousands of companies involved in chipping the world as well as every banking institution. Billions will be chipped before the last half of the tribulation. The beast won’t be able to claim these as worshippers. And when WW3 begins electronic banking will be kaput due to electromagnetic pulses which will disable most electronic devices on the planet. Nobody will be using electronic banking. They will be so afraid of the wrath of God they will certainly be going to church to pray – every Sunday for sure.
Hey Don, I’ve got a quick hypothetical question or you.
If the chip process gets here before the beast, say your bank offers it next year as an option, or your doctor suggests it since it would include your medical history along with allergies etc. And you could have it implanted anywhere you want (the chest is now being recommended as it is less likely to get damaged than if it were in the hands or feet where there is greater physical stress) would you accept it, knowing it is not a form of worship and your bank is not the beast?
Plus, if you are certain of any early rapture, you will never see the Antichrist take power so you would be immune to his mark anyway.
So how about it, wanna get chipped with me?
Anyone else out there brave enough?
James, I’ll let you in on a little scret, I currently don’t use any type of debit or credit cards for that very purpose. The very fact that it is written in the word of God that there will be a mark that goes in the right hand or forehead used for the purpose of buying and selling, means that I would never receiving anying anywhere under my skin for the purpose of buying and selling, much less my right hand or forehead. Now add the fact that we have device that manufactured for that very purpose and think that anyone would blantantly receive it knowing what God’s word says, is putting themselves in eternal danger. At least an intelligent person would make the decision to not do exactly what the word of God warns about, even if he believes that is symbolic. Why would I want to do exactly what the word of God warns us not to do? What is happening here is that you are so sure about your symbolic interpretation, that you override the literal word of God and ignore the warning.
Bye the way, the chip process is already here, as I keep telling you. It is in use in Europe and is speading and will continue to do so until the end running paralell with the other methods of buying and selling. I will have nothing to do with it, because it is against God. If I am not even willing to utilize the credit and debit system via computer transaction, what makes you think that I would allow anything under my skin to make purchases. I would rather be like Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, who would rather be thrown into the furnace than worship Nebuchadnezzer’s image. Some day you will remember this and understand that I was right that it is a literal mark in the right hand or forehead. I hope you think hard about it before you do it, because once you do receive it, there is no turning back.
Well Don, you and I have very similar philosophies. Since I believe the mark is a sign of obedience to the false prophet (the pope) in opposition to gods laws, I refuse to go to church on Sunday, and I will have nothing to do with christmas, Easter or any other paganisms, even though the beast has not forced it yet.
Also, check these web pages that explain the use of symbols in prophesy. Look at woman, time, day and mark. You will note that a mark in prophecy is a sign of obedience. Also check forehead and hand. Maybe you will notice something I missed.
http://www.teachinghearts.org/dre00symbols.html#time
http://www.revelationbibleprophecy.org/prophecy_symbols.html
By the way, I just picked these at random from the top page of a Google search. Maybe you can find a page that refutes these findings. Let me know.
Hi James,
Colossians 2:16
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.
What do you make of this? If we are not to judge each other abuot these things, how can it be the mark?
Hi Malia,
You are exactly right with this scripture. In fact, I am studying the book of Colossians right now. This scripture, as well as others, are telling us that we as Christians need not be concerned with the “Law,” as it was nailed to the Cross with Christ, where Christ is the end of the Law. We, in this covenant of faith are led by the Spirit of God and not by the written code. I have made the comment before, that whatever day of the week that people worship on is not going to be an issue during the time of the beast, but receiving his mark will be, because by receiving it, one would be aligning himself with the beast and therefore, worshiping him. It is said that he (false prophet) will “Force” the inhabitants of the earth to receive this mark and the way that I believe he will accomplish this will not be by physical force, but by making the other forms of buying and selling obsolete, leaving only the mark. In this senario, with cash, checks, credit and debit removed, then a decision will have to be made by the individual, which will be to either, receive the mark in order to survive or resist the beast, his image and his mark at the expense of not being able to apart of the world system and death. The fact is, subdermal “Chips” are already being manufactured for the purpose of making purchases and are aleady being used in some places. This technology will continue to gain momentum and I believe we will begin to see this mark begin to run parallel with cash, checks, credit and debit, but at some point during the middle of that last seven years, there will be a cut-off date for the use of the other methods for buying and selling, leaving only his mark. At that time the Scripture, which says, whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whowver loses his life for my sake and gospels will have it abundantly (eternal life). The book of revelation does not give any indication that the mark, the right hand or the forehead are to be taken symbolically. One of the details that is overlooked by the “Sabbath Keepers” as they call themselves, is the fact that the word of God says that, “Unless anyone had the mark, he would not be able to buy or sell.” So, the mark is something that will be used for buying and selling (credit and debit). The world is already using this technology with the debit card. Make your purchase, swipe your card and ones bank account is automatically debited. So, just shrink that debit card technology down and place it in the right hand or forehead and you now have your own personal chip which accesses your personal bank account. The burden of proof is on the Sabbath keeper, because the literal interpretation is already taking place. The only thing missing is the arrival of the beast and his false prophet, but until then, the technology for the mark will continue to escalate up to the time of beasts revealing, where at some point it will become manditory in order to be able to buy or sell.
Yours in Christ
What Paul is talking about here are certain “holy days” either pagan or Jewish that take ones attention away from Christ. He speaks of false teachers – fallen angels that we should not pray to.
As for the sabbath referral, he is not speaking of the weekly sabbath of the fourth commandment but annual sabbaths, specifically Passover, Feast of Unleavened Bread and Pentecost which were fulfilled by Jesus and no longer valid.
You are taking a big chance by tossing out the ten commandments. Remember the one that says “You shall have no other God’s before me”? Do you believe it is now OK for us to worship Islamic and Hindu gods as well? And may we now kill and commit adultery without offending God?
God never changed or eliminated the Saturday sabbath. The catholic church moved it to Sunday to appease the Romans and get them into the churches. That is admitted by the papacy. The protestant reformation failed to correct it so they had to search the new testament for flimsy excuses to keep Sunday worship, and this is one of them. It took 200 years and the death of 100 million saints to convert the church to Sunday worship. It was the mark of the beast back then and it will be again.
Satan is not going to take over the financial system in order to get Christians to worship him. That makes no sense. All he has to do is to get them to deny his commandments. If you deny God’s laws then you defy God himself. Satan knows that and he has the whole world fooled. They will all worship the beast by submitting to his will – to deny the word of God.
They won’t even see it coming – like sheep led to slaughter.
Do you really thing that refusing a data chip will get you into heaven?
Or will refusing God’s laws keep you out?
You better be sure. Time is short.
Greetings James,
What proof do you have to support your claim that Colossians 2:16 isn’t talking about the weekly Sabbath? If the Sabbath mentioned has only to do with the Sabbath that is part of the observance of the other festivals, then the passage is redundant. It would not need to be explicitly mentioned. Why is it?
Also, how can Passover be no longer valid as Jesus said, “Do this in rememberance of me?”
Matthew 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.”
We cannot get to heaven by observing the law. The law is there to show us our inadequacies, our need for a Savior. We make it to heaven because Jesus fulfilled the law. It is on his merit that we are able to draw near.
Hi again Malia,
You are right-on here. Paul used marriage as an example saying that, a woman is only obligated to her husband as long as he is alive and therefore, after he dies she is free from that obligation. In Pauls symbolism, our husband was the law and since Christ is the end of the law and it was nailed to the cross with him, we are free from that husband, that is, we are free from that covenant completely. We are now led by the Spirit of God, with his law written on our hearts. Furthermore, Paul also said that Hagar and Sarah represented two covenants figuratively. The slave woman Hagar, represents the law and Sarah the free woman, wich represents the faith covenant. He goes on to say that, the offspring of the slave woman (Hagar) will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s offspring, who represent those of the faith covenant. We are not under the law whatsoever, else grace is no longer grace.
Hi Malia,
The explanation I gave you came from two bible study web sites I Googled to investigate your original claims. They both gave me the same detailed interpretations, way more detailed than I could go into here. But what I came away with was the idea that the laws that were being referred to were either roman laws or laws that had been perverted by the Pharisees over the centuries. Laws that Jesus often spoke of and was accused of breaking such as healing on the Sabbath.
In any case my studies left me convinced that Paul was not suggesting that the ten commandments could be violated in any way. I suggest you do the same and pick the site(s) of your choice and see what they say.
I just now discovered an entire web site dedicated just to Colossians 2:16:
http://www.colossians2-16.com/
I suggest you go there and see if it doesn’t match what I am saying. then get back to me because if you’re right then there is some adultery that I’ve been meaning to commit and I would really like to get your go-ahead on it.
Jesus did not come to abolish the ten commandments. He tells us three times in Revelation that the true church is those who keep his commandments. He’s did fulfill three of six Jewish festivals (laws) and he will fulfill the rest when he returns. How else can you explain that verse?
As for fulfilling Passover, he was not referring to the festival when he said remember this, he was referring to the bread and wine. The apostles were told to remember Jesus whenever the broke bread, not to continue observing the holiday began by Moses (a TYPE of Jesus). Hew was instead fulfilling that sabbath day by being the Passover lamb, once and for all time.
The new Jews no longer had to celebrate that sabbath, even though the pharisees were ordering them to in Paul’s day.
That is the sabbath he we rejecting.
Anyway, study that site and tell me what you think. I know you would rather hear the truth from someone else and I don’t blame you.
God bless.
Dear James,
I am delighted to learn truth from any and all sources. (Including you 😉 ) That is why I am reading all of the post on this site. I was not raised as a Christian, or a Jew and am aware that other people may have been given a more complete understanding of pieces of Scripture than I have aquired. I have very few prejudices. I don’t believe that any of us have it all right, but most of us have some of it right. I am trying to gleen from each of you pieces of truth.
I took a quick look at the website you gave. It will require a more in depth look than I could give it just now.
But I will look more closely later.
Just a note to EVERYONE, when your arguement boils down to how long you have studied or how righteous you are because you are doing something better than everyone else, you may be wrong…This is how our Messiah was missed.
God’s Blessings!
Hey Don,
I’m curious, do you think the first beast of rev 13 is the Antichrist? If so who is the second beast? If so then has anything in rev 12/13/14 happened yet? Also, who are the 7 kings of rev 17 and who will the eighth be?. Which king are we on right now and who is he? I’m trying to put together your timeline for the rest of revelation. I want to compare it to current world events to see how it may already be playing out. Or not.
Thanks.
Hello again,
In answer to your question, yes, I do believe undoubtably that the beast of Rev 13 is the antichrist. The second beast who comes out of the earth that has two horns like a lamb, but speaks like a dragon is referred to as the second beast, but then in Rev 16:13 and Rev 19:20 we find that he is also referred to as the
“False Prophet.”
Just to be clear, the beast is sybolic for a couple of different things, one is that the beast represents the dragon as a whole, second, it represents that human ruler that is represented by one of the seven heads that will receive the fatal head wound and third, there is the beast who once was, now is not and yet will come, who is also called “destroyer” who comes out of the Abyss, who is said to be king and ruler over those demonic beings who come out of the Abyss at the 5th trumpet to torment men for five months. So, the beast has multiple descripions and does not only represent that antichrist.
In regards to “has anything happened yet in Rev 12/13/14.”
The book of Revelation is divided up into three partitions, as John is told to write what you have “seen”, what is “now” and what shall take place “later.” The letters to the seven churches represent the “Now”, that is, the church priod. Once the resurrection and catching away of the church takes place, the “Now” will come to an end and the “what will take place later” of Rev 4:1 will begin. Since we are still in the “Now” that is, the church period, nothing past Rev 4 has yet taken place yet, as it is still future.
The seven kings as revealed to John by the angel are these:
“The seven heads you saw are seven hills on which the woman sits. They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, but when he does come, he must remain for a little while. The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eigth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction”
As stated, the seven heads represent seven hills upon which the woman sits (seven hills of Rome) and they are also seven succession of kings. Five have fallen, meaning that at the time that John was receiving the information from the angel, five of those sevnen Roman kings had ruled and gone. The reference to the sixth king “one is” means that the sixth king was presently ruling at the time John was receiving this information. The seventh king is said to have not yet come, but when he does come he must remain for a short time. The eigth king belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction, is that beast of revelation 13, the antichrist, which hasn’t come into power yet. The mention of him “going to his destuction” is identifying him as the one who Jesus destroys in Rev 19 when he has the beast thrown into the lake of fire alive.
So if your theory on the kings is right, the one that “is” was the Emperor Titus and the 5 fallen were NERO, Galba, Otho, Vitellius and Vespasian. (I wonder why he started with NERO) and the last 2 would be Domitian and Nerva. But Nerva did not come from Domitian, instead he was appointed by the Senate. Oh well I guess he got that one wrong.
Unless these are to be two new roman emperors. Presidents of the EU maybe? The first president will be elected soon = the EU will ratify the treaty of Lisbon on Jan 1 so king #7 may be here in a month. What do you think?
I like to match prophecy with the news, just to keep God on his toes.
Music from the vatican?
‘Is life worth living …
should i blast myself …’
What is wrong here??
Don, I lost the trail of your last blog about the woman representing Israel so I’m picking it up here. If I referred to the woman being a literal translation it was meant for another blogger on another site so I apologize for the cornfusion.
Anyway I agree that the woman represents Israel, but not the country but spiritual Israel – before the birth of Jesus. After his resurrection and ascension to the throne the Christian church became spiritual Israel and is referred to as Israel in prophecy (by prophets other than John).
Also, your correlation is incorrect. There is a woman, not a sun in the revelation version. The sun was Jacob, the moon was Rachel, the stars his brothers.
You have turned the woman clothed in the sun into a sun and The moon into Rachel and Leah. I just think that God would be more precise if he really wanted us to make a connection, that’s all.
In any case, since a woman always represents a church in prophecy I don’t see why this woman would be an exception. The woman riding the dragon is a church, the bride of Christ is a church so why would John choose a woman to represent a nation and break from tradition?
And splain me this: The woman gives birth, according to you to the 144,000 male virgins. This is the “Man-child.”
Then the man-child ascends to heaven to his throne. He rules the nations with a rod of iron. Later in revelation it declares that Christ will return and rule the nations with a rod of iron. Why are these two statements not related? Where does it say we are to look elsewhere to find the true meaning? You are making things overly complicated by trying to relate similar phrases to something that stands alone.
Rev 12 is history. So is rev 13 &14. The 7th king(dom) is here and the eighth is right around the corner. It is all in the history books if you care to look.
Those who are waiting for a one-world government and a benign dictator to run it will still be waiting when the Antichrist arrives. I know his name and his title and about when he will be here. There is very little more that has to happen. I believe the war of Gog is next leading to the entrance of the Antichrist. No chips, no new world order, no rapture. We are ready now. Not much left to do but sit back and wait.
Enjoy the sabbath,
Later
No “new World Order”? Are you serious???
Forgive me my tone, but I cant stay calm when I read such nonsense.
Have a blessed and peaceful sabbath
Future World government is alreday admitted by leaders like the EU President.. the new world order is coming.. the catalysator are the manufactured global crisises.. False Christ will “save” mankind.. The whole world will love, worship him, and make party when the 2 witnesses are dead (Rev.).. cashless society is also near, acc. to Visa chief in 2012.. thats no big step, because most people already use cashless to a great extend.. I could go on for hours about the coming New World Order but maybe you research it yourself?
So where in the bible is the one world ordered described? I have never seen any clear scripture about it. I agree there will be a one-world Christian church, but not an entire world church combining all the worlds religions. Christians will converge under the leadership of the pope as the catholic church absorbs most of the protestant churches. This is already happening so prepare to worship the pope.
I admit there is a movement to create a one world government, the idea has been around for hundreds of years. Plus we have the United Nations already and look what a great job it is doing to unite the nations of the world.
It won’t be all the citizens of the world united under a charismatic leader. There will only be worldwide Christians uniting under the pope and he will command them to go to church every sunday and no other day. The Vatican has already suggested this as their policy for all church members. There will be no order to have a chip inserted into anybody. God doesn’t care how you use your bank funds.
And while the chip may become an option for a lot of customers in the US, I don’t believe that the entire world could ever go cashless. How would we pay illegal farm workers and housekeepers? How would drug dealers make a living? How would leaders and politicians accept bribes? You don’t understand how the real world works. And its a big world – too big to connect it all to a wireless satellite internet banking system. You cant get a cell phone connection in half the buildings I visit regularly. You make it sound very simple but believe me it will not be. I’m a computer designer/engineer and programmer so I understand the problems involved. If it ever happens it will take too long for it to be the mark. If it happens there would be millions of people chipped before the beast arrives and they won’t count. The more advanced countries will get there first and thus avoid the mark. The beast would only catch a remnant of third world countries not yet chipped. Plus what happens to a Hindu who does not know Jesus, or the devil. If he takes a chip just to stay alive will he be punished for taking the mark? What about babies that are chipped at birth? Its all too complicated.
As I said, its only about the Christian church (biblical Israel in prophecy) and the mark can be implemented to all Christians everywhere with the stroke of the popes pen. Its almost too simple. That’s why it is overlooked.
And I have another hypothetical for you…
You say the so-called Antichrist (incorrect term, but OK) will be so loved that every nation will embrace him. He must have a religious affiliation since he will at some point declare himself to be god, so what will he be? The Jews will never accept a Muslim, nor will Christian nations (even though Marianne must believe so), and the Muslims won’t accept a Jew or a Christian, and what about the Buddhists and Hindus?
You and I won’t be fooled by such a person so why would everybody else?
As a US citizen would you vote to transfer our government from congress to a dictator, however nice he seems?
Ii didn’t think so. A new world order will be much harder to create than you think. Its a nice concept but it would never work and everyone (countries) knows it.
But show me the verses, maybe I will see the light.
James,
Throughout the entire old testament, a “woman” was always used to symbolize Israel, or a nation, like babylon. I think John’s use of it would be the same. I think it is church tradition, not the bible, that converts the woman into a church.
Revelation calls the church, the “church.”
Just to be clear, the church did not come into being until Christ began to build it, else he would not have said the following:
“I will build my church and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it.”
“I will build” is in the future-tense and therefore, Israel was never the church. The woman of Rev.12 is Israel and I have the word of God to back that up by Jacob identifying the sun, moon and stars of Joseph’s dream. On the other hand, you only have conjecture and assumption and no verses to backup what you are claiming.
God used that vision in Rev 12 of the sun, moon and stars to point us to joseph’s dream, in order to show us who the woman of Rev.12 is.
How will the future salesmen know, if you are a Sabbath keeper or not?
Right, it has to be some sort of physical appearance.
Moreover, true christians already know that Sabbath is Saturday.
Don, the nation state called “Israel” is NOT the Israel mentioned throughout the bible.
I dont get it why everyone equals Judah/Jews to biblical Israel.
(??????)
Moreover, Don, when you equal the woman clothed in the sun with Israel (what I think is right) you have to see that the one (1) male child, who is born from Israel, and who will rule with a rod of Iron, and caughtup to gods throne, is indeed Messiah!! You try to make your theory valid, but take it as plain as simple – it is one man, born by Israel.
When you all finally would understand that Judah is not Israel, than we could go further. The harlot is apostate Israel, that includes the Vatican/Catholicism and the western world who is ruled by him, that also includes the western economy based on the babylonian fractional reserve system and fiat money, and it includes also the pagan babylonian holidays apostate Israel is practicing, like Easter or Christmas.
Remember that Babylon will be eaten by the Antichrist! That means new global economic system, new one world religion (of false “peace”), and the Vatican exposed and destroyed.
Apostate Israel is also since many centuries holding the day of the sun-god Horus holy, coming from… right Babylon.
silvan
I think calling all of israel “jew” is tradition. I know Jews of different tribes, not of Judah, and they still call themselves Jews. It is just a name that they apply to all of their faith and heritage.
Hi Marianne,
do you think the other tribes are “lost”?
Ephraim and Manasseh got the birthright blessing of Jacob/Israel…Gen48!
Judah got the czepter, the blloodline of Messiah, King of Kings. But the other tribes (northern kingdom) were lead by Ephraim and Manasseh, and were called Israel. God predicted that they will forget who they are.
Ephraim is Britain (which is hebrew and means “covenant people”) and Manasseh is America, they are the two brother tribes.
The saxons are Saac’s sons.
There is much more!
Currently, no Jew knows what tribe they belong to.
Hi Silvan,
I don’t know why you continue to refer to “Judah?” Without going into it, there was a point in Israel’s history when there was civil war and Israel was divided up into two groups, Judah and Israel. In the last days, there will be no division between the two, as God has been and will return them to the land that he gave them. When the word of God speaks of Israel in Revelation, He is speaking of the entire nation Israel and not just to Judah, but to all the tribes collectively that originally made up the nation Israel.
I think that because of lack of study, many people are not aware that, Israel will be the focal point of that time period. The prophecy that the angel Gabriel was directed at Daniel’s people, which could only be Israel. Below is the prophecy regarding the nation Israel, not just Judah, but all of Israel, which is where we understand that the tribulation period is seven years in length:
“Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.”
This prophecy is yet to be fulfilled for Israel, which is what God is going to be fulfilling during that last seven year period. At the same time, he will also be pouring out his wrath on the earth for the purpose of repentance and to punish those who will not. Stop seperating Israel, as that civil seperation will not exist during that time.
Hi Silvan,
Let’s test your theory of the “Male Child” being Jesus.
“The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that he might devour her child the moment it was born. She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an Iron scepter. And her child was snatched up to God and his thone.”
The verse above states that the dragon, who is identified as Satan, stood in front of the woman so that he might devour her child [the moment] it was born, but the child was caught up to God’s throne before the dragon could devour it, yet Jesus was crucified! So, he wasn’t caught up to God’s throne before the dragon devoured him, but in fact, he was devoured, then afterward ascended to God’s throne.
The term to “devour” the male child as soon as it was born, would mean to kill it, which is exactly what Satan did to Jesus. Satan was the force behind mankind that caused Jesus to be Crucified, although unbeknownst to Satan, that was the plan all along, which was to be crucified and in doing so, saving mankind.
On the otherhand, the male child being the 144,000 from the twelve tribes of Israel, who are sealed with the seal of God, who are also only males (male child) and who come to the knowledge that Jesus is in fact their Messiah, then God Catches them up to His throne before Satan can kill them and they are seen with Jesus in Rev.14 as the redeemed from the earth as the first fruits to God.
The phrase “They will rule the nations with and iron scepter” is not specific to just the male child of Rev 12. As I told you before, it is promised to the overcomers, as mentioned in the letter to Thyatira and to the rider on the white horse found in Rev 19:15, which rider is Jesus Christ. So, you have that prase being used for all three groups.
Here is a secret, I used to also believe that the male child was referrring to Jesus, but after years and years of study, I found that to be incorrect.
Silvan,
Hi hope you are well.
Can you give me just one scripture that supports what you say?
Love,
John
Hi John, iam contented, by the Lord’s kingdom.
I will answer you as soon as I can.
There are many scriptures.
For now consider that EVERY man on the earth receives the mark, be it symbolical or literal. (Rev13 and 14) EVERYONE will worship him who is not written in the book of life )Rev.19?)
For all the believers of symbolic interpretation, one big question:
HOW will the future salesmen know if you are worshipping the beast or not?
.
The 10 horns are 10 kings= 10 superstates, which will give the false Messiah=false Saviour of mankind the world government (Book of Daniel)
Much more later- maybe you could elaborate what you mean actual.
I seem to remember Herod trying to kill the Christ child when he was born, but the family escaped.
So far, Jesus is the only single male that was threatened at birth that got caught up to heaven.
Marianne, I agree with you that it is Jesus that is being mentioned. The book of revelation is after all, all about Jesus. There was another person who was threatened at birth and was caught up to heaven and that was Moses. He was a type for Jesus but is not the one referred to here.
Hi Marianne,
You missed the point!
The male child completely escapes the dragon and is caught up to God’s throne without being killed by him. In contrast, Jesus, though escaping Herod as a child, he did not escape being crucified. Therefore, Jesus does not fit the bill of being the male child as being caught up without being killed.
The words “Caught up” is the Greek word “Harpazo”, which denotes “Force sudden exercised” or “a snatching away.” This is the same word used to describe the catching away of the church in 1 Thes.4:16, and when Paul was caught up to the third heaven and also, when Phillip was caught away from the Eunuch.
Don, you are clearly making an assumption about the use of the term “caught up”
Why do you assume you must be alive to be caught up. Nothing in your definition asserts that. Jesus was alive when he ascended (or was caught up) so why can’t the term be used with a resurrected person. Even worse you assume that the term man-child refers to 144,000 people. And that a prophetic woman can be a nation rather than a church. You are taking great liberty with word definitions and not getting the true picture.
By the way, I believe what you describe will happen, more or less. We know that from other OT prophets but rev 12 is not describing those end time events. As I’ve said, rev12-14 are in the history books so I won’t be looking for them during the tribulation. Plus if what you say is true then Ch 12 should come after Ch 14, not before. As it turns out, they all happened in the correct order.
Simple James, and it is not assumption on my part! Something that you people haven’t realized is that,when it comes to the word of God, I don’t assume anything! From the time I began posting these replies, unlike you, I have always included scripture to backup everything that I am caiming.
The word used to describe the “catching away” is the word “Harpazo”, which denotes “force suddenly exercised” or to be “snatched up.” I do a lot of Greek and Hebrew word studies, so I know what I am talking about. This same word is used in the same way each time. It was used to describe Paul when he was “caught up” to the 3rd heaven, when Phillip was “caught away” from Eunuch and in 1 Thes 4:16 in describing the “catching away” of those in Christ that are still alive. The word is always used to describe a forceful snatching away of the living, not the dead. If you had studied this word, you not be making this assumption!
Jesus was not dead when he was snatched up, so your term still fits.
And the word was used by Matthew too:
Mat 12:29 “Or how can anyone enter the strong man’s house and carry off his property, unless he first binds the strong man? And then he will plunder his house.
So the term can be applied to property. Here is Mat 13:19
19 “When anyone hears the word of the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what has been sown in his heart. This is the one on whom seed was sown beside the road.
So it can refer to something quite esoteric here.
So why not a resurrected Jesus?
Also,
I will use your own logic to go with the literal first when it comes to the woman giving birth. Giving birth is having a child (like a man child) not 144000 Jews coming to Christ. John would have made the text much clearer if that is what he meant. Unless you can find scripture that proves the use of gives birth the way you say I’m not buying it. Rev 12 is history because most of rev 13 is also history. And parts of them were concurrent. You can’t unprove history.
Woman giving birth to male child and being chased by dragon is entirely symbolical and should be understood spiritually.
Woman is Israel, or group of Jews, who accepted Jesus Christ, and thus are ready for final redemption.
John simply saw the same prophecy as prophets Daniel and Zechariah, of Jews fleding/escaping to the desert, chased, but nurtured there. I have no doubt that Jesus Christ will reveal Himself and guide Jews in the desert during time of tribulation, even before He comes on the clouds of heaven for all the world to see. Because, Isaiah already prophesised: “Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength?”
Hi Gavriel,
We’ve already be through this, but here goes:
The Woman = Israel (all of Israel, not just Judah). She will
come to the knowledge that Jesus is their Messiah
sometime during that 3 1/2 years where God cares for
her in the wilderness.
The 144,000 = The male child of whom the woman gives birth too
is made up of the literal twelve tribes of Israel
who come to the knowledge that Jesus is their
Messiah and are caught up to God’s throne.
The verse mentioned from Isaiah 63 (who is coming from Bozrah), is regarding the second coming of Christ and not before. This will take place when he wipes out all of the armies gathered against him in Megeddo. In regards to the woman (Israel), it is written that she will be give two wings of a great eagle, so that she might fly into the wilderness (desolation of Jerusalem caused be the abomination), where she will be cared for by God for 3 1/2 years.
so the woman is Israel, and she gives birth to more Israel, who leaves and goes to heaven, leaving herself behind……..
The woman is the nation Israel who never received Jesus as their Messiah, even til this day.
The woman gives birth to 144,000 Isralites, 12,000 from each tribe chosen by God, who come to the knowledge that Jesus is in fact their Messiah. This is what the term “gave brith” represents. These are the first fruits to God of believers in Jesus out of Israel.
The dragon (Satan) is standing before the woman waiting to devour, that is to kill these 144,000 as soon as they are born (come to the realization that Jesus is Messiah), but they are caught up to God’s throne.
The woman (Israel) is given two wings of a great Eagle, where she is cared for 3 1/2 years, which is from the middle of the seven year period until Jesus returns.
Do you understand now? What is meant by “she is giving birth” is that, a 144,000 Israelites come to the understanding the Jesus is Messiah, hence the giving birth to.
Think about it like this, the entire nation of Israel is gathered together and a 144,000 of those Israelites raise there hands and go, “oh, I get it, Jesus is the Messiah!” She just gave birth!
But “first fruits” means just that….there are “more fruits” to follow. Why only the 144000 that go to heaven?
Because God selected the 144,000 out of Israel as the first fruits of believers in Jesus Christ, where as the woman “Israel” that is cared for for that last 3 1/2 years, at that point, will still not have believed in him as their Messiah. The woman Israel who is cared for by God for that 3 1/2 years will also be saved, but probably more towards the return of Christ. Also, they will probably be the ones that go into the millennium as mortals, just as those tribulation saints who make it through until the end will. Remember, there are going to have to be people in these present bodies that will have to survive the great tribulation in order to repopulate the millennium, which is why Jesus said:
“If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened” (Mt.24:22)
Hi dmcal52,
I guess we agree, except for chronological order of events, which Prophets never actually made precise, because they weren’t supposed to.
Also, general remark about evangelical traditions about rapture, “catching up” etc…I’m Torah beleiving Jew (who beleives that Jesus Christ is LORD), so I don’t subscribe to such evangelical traditions; It says that heavens will open up like a scroll and that it will be LORD’s day – not night, nor day…which I guess means that heaven and hell will be right here on earth, heaven for those who are saved and hell for those who are judged…Christ comes on the clouds of heaven, and clouds are not very positive thing according to tradition of the prophets…in Ezekiel’s vision of divine chariot cloud is one of the four forces of judgment hiding God’s presence, so it means judgment – for those are not saved in Christ;
Yes, the woman and the dragon are symbolic as I pointed out. The woman represents Literal Israel and the dragon is identified as Satan. Therefore, Satan is going after Israel and God helps her by opening the earth and swallowing the the flood (an army)that he sends after her and God protects the woman (Israel) for 3 1/2 years.
Did any one listen to the song chosen by The Vatican’s music playlist??
Well in case you haven’t consider these words…
The title of the song is ‘Changes’ … by 2pac
The person singing has been dead for 13 years.
Now. listen carefully,
Strange the Vatican chose this song with its’ lyrics.
No offense to this singer or to the song …
But, considering the words and the hand which exalted this song to its playlist,
one must wonder …
Words words like
‘Worth living …
Should I blast myself
Give the crack to the kids
Who the hell cares
One less hungry mouth
First ship them
And let them deal the brothers
Give them guns …
Step back…
Watch them kill each other
How can the devil take a brother??
The way it is
Misplaced hate
Disgrace to races makes
Let’s erase … the wasted
Take the evil out … ‘ the people’
Crack tonight
Only time we chill
When we kill each other
It seems heaven sent
To see a black president
Don’t conceal the fact.’
Just makes me shiver, if you understand my concern.
Abigail… It is clear to me that the evil ones have already been out and among to brainwash people thru radio waves.. to change their behaviors and do weirdest things… I wouldn’t be surprised if a year from now would be a huge change that would shake everyone to the core.
Your concern is correct… no mistake about it… I cannot hear music but from what you write in song from theirs.. that is pretty clear that confirms me from the beginning. Thank you for sharing 🙂
I’m from Israel and it’s sad to witness how Jerusalem and Tel-Aviv are slowly morphing into centers of devil worship, as shown in architecture and building projects; Surely, devil must be glad as foundations for his abomination of desolation are being layed. Surely, Satan has no reason to persecute Jews, as long as they deny Jesus Christ, and mistake devil’s designs for something good, progressive and even divine (remember – confusing golden calf with God of Israel: “this is your god Israel that brought you out of Egypt);
144,000 Jews accepting Jesus Christ will be turning point, that will cause great cataclysm in spiritual dimensions and provoke devil to show his true face.
Gavriel
do you have any pictures of the buildings? This sort of thing is everywhere now. Israel is not immune, but it should be.
Hi Marianne,
This is just one of the many examples, Israel Supreme Court in Jerusalem:
In Tel-Aviv you also have it on every corner, decorated cows and bull horns are especially popular.
Israel is devil’s main target, as far as I saw it, when tribulation begins he will concentrate all his power on Israel, and Temple Mount of course.
Hi Gavriel,
what do you think about the Hexagram on your flag?
Shalom!
Silvan
Do not even go there. Remember, before all things were corrupted by Satan, God owned all creation, all symbols, all images and emblems. The star is God’s creation, not Satan’s, and it does not matter how many points it has.
Just because Satan has corrupted what God has done, it does NOT mean that God and his people are NOT entitled to continue to use creation, images, and emblems originally established by God.
Right now, the 6 pointed star represents Israel, and it is laid over the flag, which happens to be a prayer shawl. It represents the star of David, and the hope of the redeemer, who was prophesied to be of David’s lineage.
Having this star over a prayer shawl, the tallit, also represents the faith of Israel in its Creator God.
If Satan has thrown the 6 pointed star in the dirt with his own corruption, that is not the fault of Israel.
An analogy would be a picture of your mother. You would honor and love the picture. Suppose Satan used the picture of your mother to represent witchcraft. Would this change what the picture of your mother meant to you? I hope not. You would not suddenly reject your mother, because Satan has corrupted her picture.
Israel should continue to uphold the sanctity of the Messianic hope, and the faith in prayer, no matter what tricks satan is playing.
Hi Silvan,
Hexagram is Shield of David and represents David’s name (it has two Daleths which in ancient hebrew had form of triangle);
Sorcery is all about using tools of holiness for egoistic purposes, in this way upside down cross is more effective tool of sorcery than Hexagram (suppose how you can tell when Star of David is upside down?)…
Sorcery is not detectable, you will not detect it by chasing the symbols unless Holy Spirit helps you to detect it…that’s what endtime deception is all about…
Hi Marianne, Gavriel,
thank you.
Besides, i wondered who is meant in Rev.3:
“Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.”
Maybe you have an idea.
I think the synagogue of Satan is any group that persecutes the true believer.
It does not matter if they are Jewish, Christian, Atheist, witch..etc.
I think ‘the Satan’ is not well understood.
There can not be a ‘force who resists’ God.
Certainly not as some would perceive it.
As though there could be another with whom God is truly at war with.
As though there can be an opposition to God.
I truly think all this as been very mis- understood!
Abigail,
The LORD hath made all things for Himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil. (Proverbs 16:4)
“Besides, i wondered who is meant in Rev.3”
Anyone, using word of God (=Torah) for purposes of witchcraft.
Illuminati. Freemasons. Modern day sacred cow sorcery
fueled by psychedelics.
I will not comment any further ’cause this page messes up mu browser.
I think it is any one with murder in his heart.
I think any one who stirs men to violence is a good candidate.
The way of Cain was not too popular with The Lord God!
Hello all.
I decided to research the symbols used in bible prophesy and here is what I found:
Bible Prophecy Symbols
Why cloak Bible prophecies in Symbols? And Jesus said, “To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God, but to the rest it is given in parables, that Seeing they may not see, And hearing they may not understand.” Luke 8:10. Many of the apocalyptic prophecies were given while the prophets were in a hostile foreign land. One reason God cloaked the prophecies in symbols was to protect the messages.
Animals and their Parts
• Horse = Strength and Power in Battle Job 39:19, Psalms 147:10, Proverbs 21:31
• Dragon = Satan or his agency Isaiah 27:1; 30:6, Psalms 74:13-14, Revelation 12:7-9, Ezekiel 29:3, Jeremiah 51:34
• Beast = Kingdom / government / political power Daniel 7:17, 23
• Lamb = Jesus / sacrifice John 1:29, 1Corinthians 5:7
• Lion = Jesus / Powerful King i.e. Babylon Revelation 5:4-9, Jeremiah 50:43-44, Daniel 7:4, 17, 23
• Bear = Destructive Power / Medo Persia Proverbs 28:15, 2Kings 2:23-24, Daniel 7:5
• Leopard = Greece Daniel 7:6
• Serpent = Satan Revelation 12:9; 20:2
• Tongue = Language / Speech Exodus 4:10
• Wolf = Disguised Enemies Matthew 7:15
• Dove = Holy Spirit Mark 1:10
• Ram = Medo Persia Daniel 8:20
• Goat = Greece Daniel 8:21
• Horn = King or kingdom Daniel 7:24; 8:5, 21-22, Zechariah 1:18-19, Revelation 17:12
• Wings = Speed / Protection / Deliverance Deuteronomy 28:49, Matthew 23:37
Colors
• White = Purity Revelation 12:9; 20:2
• Blue = Law Numbers 15:38-39
• Purple = Royalty Mark 15:17, Judges 8:26
• Red/Scarlet = Sin/corruption Isaiah 1:18, Nahum 2:3, Revelation 17:1-4
Metals, Elements, and Natural Objects
• Gold = Pure Character Precious and Rare Isaiah 13:12
• Silver = Pure Words & Understanding Proverbs 2:4; 3:13-14; 10:20; 25:11, Psalms 12:6
• Brass, Tin, Iron, Lead, Silver dross = Impure Character Ezekiel 22:20-21
• Water = Holy Spirit / Everlasting Life John 7:39; 4:14, Revelation 22:17, Ephesians 5:26
• Waters = Inhabited area/people, nations Revelation 17:15
• Fire = Holy Spirit Luke 3:16
• Tree = Cross; People / Nation Deuteronomy 21:22-23, Psalms 92:12; 37:35
• Seed = Descendents / Jesus Romans 9:8, Galatians 3:16
• Fruit = Works / Actions Galatians 5:22
• Fig Tree = A Nation that should bear fruit Luke 13:6-9
• Vineyard = Church that should bear fruit Luke 20:9-16
• Field = World Matthew 13:38, John 4:35
• Harvest = End of World Matthew 13:39
• Reapers = Angels Matthew 13:39
• Thorns / Thorny Ground = Cares of this life Mark 4:18-19
• Stars=Angels/messengers = Revelation 1:16, 20; 12:4, 7-9, Job 38:7
• Jordan = death Romans 6:4, Deuteronomy 4:22
• Mountains = Political or religio-political powers Isaiah 2:2-3, Jeremiah 17:3; 31:23; 51:24-25, Ezekiel 17:22-23, Daniel 2:35, 44-45
• Rock = Jesus / truth 1Corinthians 10:4, Isaiah 8:13-14, Romans 9:33, Matthew 7:24
• Sun = Jesus / the gospel Psalms 84:11, Malachi 4:2, Matthew 17:2, John 8:12; 9:5
• Winds=Strife / commotion / “winds of war” Jeremiah 25:31-33, 49:36-37; 4:11-13, Zechariah 7:14
Miscellaneous Objects
• Lamp = Word of God Psalms 119:105
• Oil = Holy Spirit Zechariah 4:2-6, Revelation 4:5
• Sword = Word of God Ephesians 6:17, Hebrews 4:12
• Bread = Word of God John 6:35, 51-52, 63
• Wine=blood/covenant / doctrines Luke 5:37
• Honey = happy life Ezekiel 20:6, Deuteronomy 8:8-9
• Clothing = Character Isaiah 64:6, Isaiah 59:6
• Crown = A Glorious Ruler or Rulership Proverbs 16:31, Isaiah 28:5, Isaiah 62:3
• Ring = Authority Genesis 41:42-43, Esther 3:10-11
• Angel = Messenger Daniel 8:16; 9:21, Luke 1:19, 26, Hebrews 1:14
• Babylon = apostasy / confusion / rebellion Genesis 10:8-10; 11:6-9, Revelation 18:2-3; 17:1-5
• Mark = Sign or seal of approval or disapproval Ezekiel 9:4, Romans 4:11, Revelation 13:17; 14:9-11; 7:2-3
• Seal = Sign or mark of approval or disapproval Romans 4:11, Revelation 7:2-3
• White Robes=Victory / righteousness Revelation 19:8; 3:5; 7:14
• Jar / Vessel=Person Jeremiah 18:1-4, 2Corinthians 4:7
• Time = 360 Day Daniel 4:16, 23, 25, 32; 7:25; Daniel 11:13 margin
• Times = 720 Days Daniel 7:25, Revelation 12:6, 14; 13:5
• Day = Literal year Ezekiel 4:6, Numbers 14:34
• Trumpet = loud warning of God’s approach Exodus 19:16-17, Joshua 6:4-5
Actions, Activities, and Physical States
• Healing = Salvation Luke 5:23-24
• Leprosy / Sickness = Sin Luke 5:23-24
• Famine = Dearth of Truth Amos 8:11
People and Body Parts
• Woman, Pure = True Church Jeremiah 6:2, 2Corinthians 11:2, Ephesians 5:23-27
• Woman, Corrupt = Apostate church Ezekiel 16:15-58; 23:2-21, Hosea 2:5; 3:1, Revelation 14:4
• Thief = Suddenness of Jesus’ coming 1Thessalonians 5:2-4, 2Peter 3:10
• Hand = Deeds / Works / Actions Ecclesiastes 9:10, Isaiah 59:6
• Forehead = Mind Deuteronomy 6:6-8, Romans 7:25, Ezekiel 3:8-9
• Feet = Your Walk / Direction Genesis 19:2, Psalms 119:105
• Eyes = Spiritual Discernment Matthew 13:10-17, 1John 2:11
• Skin = Christ’s righteousness Exodus 12:5, 1Peter 1:19, Isaiah 1:4-6
• Harlot = Apostate church/religion Isaiah 1:21-27, Jeremiah 3:1-3; 6-9
• Heads = Major powers/rulers/governments Revelation 17:3, 9-10
Maybe this will help some of us figure out what it all means.
that is an impressive list. 🙂
And yet, this is only a partial list, as those things have different meanings as well. take “Stars” for example. There are several different symbolic meanings for stars in just the book of Revelations alone:
Rev 1:20 – Angels/Messengers (possibly pastors)
Rev.6:13 – Asteroids/Meteorites
Rev.8:10 – Great star blazing like a torch “Unknown”. Turns
the fresh water bitter so that many people die.
Rev.8:12 – Literal stars, as in “the cosmos”
Rev.9:1 – Angel (ibid fallen)
Rev.12:1 – Stars represents the twelve tribes of Israel
Rev.12:4 – Stars representing Satan’s angels
Rev.22:16 – Jesus is the bright morning “Star.”
The reason stars on not on the list is because stars do not have a specific meaning in prophecy. There are too many uses for this word for it to appear in the list. Not every word used in the bible has a special meaning when used in prophecy. But the ones in the list do, so they should be taken seriously.
Don,
I am enjoying your posts very much. Have you studied the connection the Feasts and Festivals have to prophecy?
Also, I had a thought about the multiple “First Fruits”. Since we are all reedemed by the Blood of Jesus (THE First Fruit) everyone has the same standing as First Fruits, no matter when they arrive in heaven.
Hi Malia,
I am enjoying your posts as well and I am in agreement with what you have posted. Regarding the “First Fruits,” the term is used in regards to preeminance or rank. The church is never referred to as the first fruits. It is used of Jesus as being the “First Fruits” of the resurrection and also in regards to the 144,000 that come out of Israel who will come to the knowledge that Jesus is their Messiah. So, this special group are the “First Fruits” selected by God out of the twelve tribes of Israel. It states that “These are those who did not defile themselves with woman,” which would infer that they are all males, and that no lie was found in their mouths. I can’t boast of that, can you? Simply, these are dedicated to God from the twelve tribes of Israel.
Yours in Christ
Wonderful, James.. Thank you.. That does help big time. I am going to write those down since it would help with bible 🙂 Bless your heart.
Hello all, Marianne, Abigail, Don, James!
What I believe is surely very rare and unpopular, but that doesnt mean it would be not correct.
But just let speak the word of God alone:
Gen 48
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%2048-50&version=KJV
5And now thy (Josephs) two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, which were born unto thee in the land of Egypt before I came unto thee into Egypt, are mine; as Reuben and Simeon, they shall be mine.
9And Joseph said unto his father, They are my sons, whom God hath given me in this place. And he said, Bring them, I pray thee, unto me, and I will bless them.14And Israel stretched out his right hand, and laid it upon Ephraim’s head, who was the younger, and his left hand upon Manasseh’s head, guiding his hands wittingly; for Manasseh was the firstborn.
15And he blessed Joseph, and said, God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God which fed me all my life long unto this day,
16The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let MY NAME BE NAMED ON THEM, and the name of my fathers Abraham and ISAAC; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.
17And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father’s hand, to remove it from Ephraim’s head unto Manasseh’s head.
18And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.
19And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be GREATER than he, and his seed shall become a MULTITUDE OF NATIONS.
20And he blessed them that day, saying, In thee shall Israel bless, saying, God make thee as Ephraim and as Manasseh: and he set Ephraim before Manasseh.
.
Now, we can see many things here:
-Josephs sons were prophecied to become a great people (the older brother) and the younger brother greater and a multitude of nations
-These two brothers got the RIGHT to be named after Israel and
Isaac (Gen.21:12 …for in Isaac shall thy (Abrahams) seed be called.”)
.
Now, ask yourself, do these decsriptions fit on the “Jews”?
Is there anywhere in the world two brother nations, where the older nation is great and powerful but the younger greater and a multitude of nations??
Who is named after I-saac? Maybe the Saxons, sons of Saac (vowels can get lost in hebrew writing)
By the sure Word of prophecy, you must find Ephraim and Manasseh in the world today, for they were to become two mighty nations.
.
My dear Don, you said, that after the (established) division of the northern and southern kingdom, the first ruled by Ephr. and Manasseh, the latter ruled by Judah, they were reunited, but that is not true:
Ezekiel 37
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=ezekiel%2037&version=KJV
11Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts.
12Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel.
13And ye shall know that I am the LORD, when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves,
14And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD.
15The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,
16Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and write upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim and for all the house of Israel his companions:
17And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.
18And when the children of thy people shall speak unto thee, saying, Wilt thou not shew us what thou meanest by these?
19Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, even with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.
20And the sticks whereon thou writest shall be in thine hand before their eyes.
21And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
22And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.
23Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.
24And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
25And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children’s children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
26Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
27My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
28And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.
.
Again we see many things:
-(The House of) Israel and (the children of) Judah are different people
-they will be reunited when they are RAISED FROM THE DEAD, when they aer SINLESS, when David and Jesus are ruling
It should be clear, that they are not reunited until the end of Age.
.
Should be enough for today, there is much more.
There are prophecies who describe who and where the people of Israel are today.
He, who loves the Truth (Jesus), can read for example
http://www.cai.org/bible-studies/british-israel
http://www.meguiar.addr.com/So_who_is_the_House_of_Israel.htm
http://www.stevenmcollins.com/
God bless!
hi SIlvan
Since England existed for thousands of years, and then birthed the 13 colonies, wouldn’t that make America its child, rather than its brother?
Hi Marianne,
afaik most of the American settlers immigrated from Germany and Britain. In germany are states that are named after Isaac’s sons, “Nieder-Sachsen”, “Sachsen-Anhalt”, “Sachsen”.
The tribe of DAN is migrated through Dan-mark. and so on..
In depth studies are at the pages i posted. Steve Collins page is good.
Maybe Europe is one brother and Britain is the other…they are about the same age.
Marianne,
You are correct here. It has been known for a hundred years that Ephriam in prophecy represents England and Manessah represents the US. For proof go to this website and request their free pamphlet: The US and Great Britain in prophecy.
http://www.keyofdavid.com/Default.asp?siteMapId=Request
You will find it enlightening.
Hi Silvan,
You said: My dear Don, you said, that after the (established) division of the northern and southern kingdom, the first ruled by Ephr. and Manasseh, the latter ruled by Judah, they were reunited, but that is not true:
I don’t know where you are quoting this from, but what I did say is that, as God gathers the Jews back to Israel, they will be one nation under one name “Israel” and not diveded up between Judah and Israel as they were from their civil war.
Hi Don. I have that from 5 December, 6:43. You said God “has been” gathering them back. But Ezekiel 37 and Genesis 48 show that the two great leading nations of Israel will be reunited with Judah at the resurrection of the dead after the tribulation.
Here is the Truth behind closed doors!
a lot of “stuff” here and it is just an opinion video……where is the proof that the Jesuits are the Illuminati?
It’s part of history, if only you would search it .
The scheme is actually to completely destroy ‘Judaism’ and its people.
It is a very sick, sick world!
I could probably fill your entire web site with history.
Here is a series noteworthy.
Have you ever listen to the testimony of Cathy Obrian?
Or read her book ‘Trance formation America?
The Vatican and the Jesuit Order are NOT ‘CHRIST’s’
May be hard for some of you to believe but it is the Truth.
The deception is deep and wide.
If only people would care to develop a relationship with GOD ALMIGHTY
and leave and run far away from ‘ORGANIZATIONS’ .
We are in the end and still people are lazy and think this is all a joke.
Anyways one should know its enemy …
abigail
I am trying to understand specifically WHAT she was forced to do. I understand being sexually abused. She mentions mind control…what was she controlled to do, besides sex? Cocaine? anything else…..
what was she specifically doing..she was doing blood rituals? was she killing people? visual trauma, or other kind? what were her “various operations?”
Cathy was a top level intelligent agent. Her story is well worth the read .
She was subjected to MK ultra well …
Here is a site to go to …
http://www.trance-formation.org/index2.htm
Don, I just have to ask you, are you still thinking you alone got the whole truth and that you have to teach others?
I also of course make mistakes, but I know that.
NO one knows it all, especially regarding prophecy!
But if anyone gets caught by feelings of pride, God will give him false knowledge and humble him. But its a wonderful and sweet feeling to admit before God that one is little and a know-nothing – and THAT is then really blessed!
I hope you can do that and experience the love feeling of the only “know-it-all” – and than start over, with us together on the same level.
You may read James 1:5 and John 14:26.
Shalom!
The U.N., an occult New Age organisation, is in charge of bringing in the world government and promotes the “world teacher” and “Christ” Maitreya.
His commercial ran already on CNN:
.
Newest information by Dr. Scott Johnson (nondemoninational christian) about Maitreya and the “great deception”
Must read, imho)
Click to access 123071835192.pdf
http://www.cuttingedge.org/ you may perhaps subscribe to the email newsletter about current events regarding the masonic/new age New World Order
.
The REAL Agenda of the New World Order
I already have them posted but i feel it is of great importance:
New EU President Admits One-World Government is Here – New World Order
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THE NEW AGE INFLUENCE AT THE UNITED NATIONS
http://contenderministries.org/articles/UN_aaclucis.php
.
Theosophy (New Age) is of the devil:
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/New%20Age/theosophy.htm
.
The Coming Theosophic World Religion
.
Leading documentaries about the new age one world religion:
http://keithtruth.blogspot.com/
.
Constance Cumbey: New Age Lecture (1/7) (MUST SEE)
.
I would recommend Alex Jones videos, they are full of truth about the one world agenda of the globalist elite. But he doesnt show the whole truth. He “forgets” to mention who is behind it all.
EU Ready to Divide Jerusalem!! 3rd Temple in March 2010!
Seems, if we soon know if we are catched away before the tribulation!!
Remember one most important thing:
“Watch ye therefore, and pray ALWAYS, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.”
Ah !!
But you don’t want to miss this!!
-the first offshoots of sun cycle 24 or the possibly happening supernova (as Marianne pointed out in another blog)?
The sun will be very hot and torturing mankind acc. to revelation!
I guess the global warming scam will be accepted by mankind due to the coming heat. That may be even part of the “strong delusion” and the lie given to believe by man.
This is a time-lapse video of a CME – coronal mass ejection – basically a solar flare which happens quite often and is not unusual. Solar activity is increasing lately and will peak in 2012 and then begin to lessen in its 22 year cycle.
So what is blowing up in this video? Well, it is the sun that is blowing up! It has been blowing up for billions of years now and it won’t be finished blowing up for billions more.
So what are you worried about? You’re more likely to die from diabetes so start worrying about what you eat, not the sun.
Hi James,
Um, I’m not really concerned about what you guys were talking about regarding the sun in revelation, but what I am concerned about is what bible you are reading? The sun has been blowing up for “Billions” of years and will continue to blow up for “Billions” more??? From what I have studied, the sun, moon and stars are all part of the six days of creation, they being created on the fourth day, which is two days prior to Adam being created. That being the truth, the sun, moon and stars are approximately 6,000 years old, unless you believe what scientist claim over the word of God. The earth, which is not apart of the six days of creeation was here before any of the cosmos and everything out in outer space was created for the earth, that is, for those who would inhabit the earth. Furthermore, in case you haven’t read the book of Revelation, at the end of the millennium, after the great white throne judgment, God creates a new heaven and a new earth, a new Jerusalem and guess what is missing:
“The city does not need the sun or the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and the Lamb is its lamp.” (Rev.21:23)
Also
“There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light.” (Rev.22:5)
Regarding the verses above, the word of God is clear in that, when the new heaven, new earth and new Jerusalem are created at the end of the millennium, there is no sun or moon. Not only that, but there are also no seas. So, to recap, the sun, contrary to scientific belief is only 6,000 years old, as are the moon and stars, being that they were all created on the fourth day. As far as your claim that the sun will be “blowing up for billions of more years,” this is false, for the word of God states, after the millennium, there will be no sun or moon to give light to the new earth or the new Jerusalem, for the glory of God will give it light and there will also be no more night. So, since the millennial period has not yet begun, our current sun will only be here for another 1,000 years and change, depending on when Christ returns to set up his millennial kingdom. For at the end of the millennium and after the great white throne judgment is over, God will make all things new. So, I don’t know how you came to the conclusion that, the sun has been blowing up for billions of years, when it has only been here for 6,000 and that it is going to continue blowing up for billions of years to come, when the sun will cease to exist after the millennium according to God’s word.
Well Don, as a person who originally started college as an astronomy major and ended up with a minor in geology, I have always tried to reconcile the ancient bible stories with God’s natural laws.
I either have to reject the science or look for a different way to interpret the creation account in Genesis. It turns out there is a credible case for the latter, best made by greater theologians than me. But I know one thing – you can’t believe in the laws of nature then look around you and still think the earth and universe is only 6000 years old.
Case in point, at the known speed of light, if the stars were created only 5000 years ago we would only be able to see a few hundred stars. The light from the rest would not have reached us yet.
The only alternative is the we are all being fooled by God into thinking the universe appears one way while in reality it is all a figment of our imagination. Maybe we all exist only in the mind of God and when he wakes up from this dream we will all cease to exist.
This is an age-old question that many will want to ask Jesus about when he returns. Do we misunderstand the words in Genesis or do we misunderstand the world around us. Seems like a nasty trick if it is the latter.
In any case, we will soon find out.
Hi James,
The problem with what you are proposing James, and that being that, the sun, moon and stars being billions upon billions of years old based on how fast light travels is that, you are you using science, the wisdom of man to override the word of God, which says that the sun, moon and stars were created on day four of the six days of creation and those days as being literal 24 hour periods, just as they are today. The word of God is very clear that, man’s wisdom is foolishness with God. In Luke 3:23-38 we have the geneology of Jesus from father to father to father, ending up with Adam. We can also get a time line in years by doing the math from the creation of Adam to Abraham, which infers the standard day as being 24 hours. My point is, since God’s word lists this geneology in terms of generations and we can count the years by who begat who, then the standard 24 hour days are in view here and we can trace it back to Adam who was created on the sixth day. How then can you say that the fourth day when the sun, moon and stars were created is not a literal 24 day if in fact, the sixth day of Adam’s creation was? Not only that, but God’s word makes clear that each of the six days of creation are 24 hour periods from the following:
“And God saw that it was good. And there was evening, and there was morning–the fourth day.”
The fact that it says “there was evening and there was morning infers 24 hours. Jesus also qualified what a day was when he said:
“Are there not twelve hours in a day and should I not be about my Father’s business?”
Twelve hours of day and twelve hours of night equals twenty four hours, which makes one day. You can’t have the sixth day of creation being a literal 24 hour period and then say, but the first, second and third days are billions and billions of years.
Regarding your speed of light theory and the stars, don’t you know that during the tribulation period, God is going to peel back the sky and space so that those who are there at that time will be able to see into heaven? Our sky and space cover heaven like wall paper.
Furthermore, neither is your claim valid that the sun is going to continue blowing up for billions of more years, because as I pointed out, the word of God shows that, the sun and moon are not going to be here when the new heaven, new earth and new Jerusalem are created, which is just over a 1000 years away, at the close of the millennium. If what you were saying were true, then the end of the millennial period would also necessarily have to be billions and billions of years away as well.
As I said, there are two major trains of thought on this matter. There was a time in the dark ages when science was suppressed because it conflicted with a few dozen lines in the Old Testament. But now the cork is out of the bottle and it is impossible to explain the real world using the bible alone. To do so is to stop living in the real world and relying on the writings of holy men (not scientists) to describe a creation process perhaps shown to hem in vision over 5000 years ago. Could they have simplified the visions into something more useful and understandable to ancient tribes? Or would you expect the Big Bang and quantum mechanics to be in there some where?
I’m cutting the bible some slack here. After all, the interpretation worked fine for thousands of years. I simply can’t throw out all of what I’ve studied most of my life. No scientist or science-minded person could do that.
That does not mean we are unfaithful. In fact many preachers I’ve listened to agree with me and have biblical explanations to back them up so I won’t attempt to do that here.
I’m sure God will explain it all in his own time. We will never settle it ourselves. I respect your traditional interpretation, but I just can’t get on board.
Behind this climate change scam are standing various goals by the Globalists:
-world wirde tax
-full control (CO2 control is life control)
-global government
-depopulation (better control of humanity)
The green movement is in fact an Eugenics program.
Catchwords are eg “sustainable development”
A recent study made by the Britain government suggests that 30 Million Britons have to go.
It is tied to environmental organisations like Greenpeace, WWF etc. (they are also controlled opposition)
John Holdren, Obamas Science Advisor, suggests in his book “Ecoscience” mandatory sterislisation and abortion, as also fertility lowering chemicals given in tap water etc.
Some quotes:
“It doesn’t matter what is true, it only matters what people believe is true.”
– Paul Watson, co-founder of Greenpeace
“We’ve got to ride this global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing in terms of economic and environmental policy.”
– Timothy Wirth, President of the UN Foundation
“No matter if the science of global warming is all phony, climate change provides the greatest opportunity to bring about justice and equality in the world.”
-Christine Stewart, fmr Canadian Minister of the Environment
“The climate crisis is not a political issue, it is a moral and spiritual challenge to all of humanity. It is also our greatest opportunity to lift GLOBAL CONSCIOUSNESS (NEW AGE LANGUAGE!!!!) to a higher level.”
– Al Gore, accepting the Nobel Peace Prize
“The only way to get our society to truly change is to frighten people with the possibility of a catastrophe.”
– emeritus professor Daniel Botkin
“We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis.”
– David Rockefeller, Club of Rome executive manager
“Humanity is sitting on a time bomb. If the vast majority of the world’s scientists are right, we have just ten years to avert a major catastrophe that could send out entire planet’s climate system into a tail-spin of epic destruction involving extreme weather, floods, droughts, epidemics and killer heat waves beyond anything we have ever experienced – a catastrophe of our own making.”
– Al Gore, An Inconvenient Truth
“By the end of this century, climate change will reduce the human population to a few breeding pairs surviving near the Arctic.”
– Sir James Lovelock, Revenge of Gaia
“Climate Change will result in a catastrophic, global seal level rise of seven meters. That’s bye-bye most of Bangladesh, Netherlands, Florida and would make London the new Atlantis.”
– Greenpeace International
“Climate change is real. Not only is it real, it’s here, and its effects are giving rise to a frighteningly new global phenomenon – the man-made natural disaster.”
– Barack Obama, US Presidential Candidate
“We are close to a time when all of humankind will envision a global agenda that encompasses a kind of Global Marshall Plan to address the causes of poverty and suffering and environmental destruction all over the earth.”
– Al Gore, Earth in the Balance
“The concept of national sovereignty has been immutable, indeed a sacred principle of international relations. It is a principle which will yield only slowly and reluctantly to the new imperatives of global environmental cooperation.”
– UN Commission on Global Governance report
“Democracy is not a panacea. It cannot organize everything and it is unaware of its own limits. These facts must be faced squarely. Sacrilegious though this may sound, democracy is no longer well suited for the tasks ahead. The complexity and the technical nature of many of today’s problems do not always allow elected representatives to make competent decisions at the right time.”
– Club of Rome, The First Global Revolution
“In my view, after fifty years of service in the United National system, I perceive the utmost urgency and absolute necessity for proper Earth government. There is no shadow of a doubt that the present political and economic systems are no longer appropriate and will lead to the end of life evolution on this planet. We must therefore absolutely and urgently look for new ways.”
– Dr. Robert Muller, UN Assistant Secretary General
“Isn’t the only hope for the planet that the industrialized civilizations collapse? Isn’t it our responsibility to bring that about?”
– Maurice Strong, founder of the UN Environment Programme
“A massive campaign must be launched to de-develop the United States. De-development means bringing our
economic system into line with the realities of ecology and the world resource situation.”
– Paul Ehrlich, Professor of Population Studies
“The only hope for the world is to make sure there is not another United States. We can’t let other countries have the same number of cars, the amount of industrialization, we have in the US. We have to stop these Third World countries right where they are.”
– Michael Oppenheimer, Environmental Defense Fund
“Global Sustainability requires the deliberate quest of poverty, reduced resource consumption and set levels of mortality control.”
– Professor Maurice King
“The big threat to the planet is people: there are too many, doing too well economically and burning too much oil.”
– Sir James Lovelock, BBC Interview
“My three main goals would be to reduce human population to about 100 million worldwide, destroy the industrial infrastructure and see wilderness, with it’s full complement of species, returning throughout the world.”
-Dave Foreman, co-founder of Earth First!
“Current lifestyles and consumption patterns of the affluent middle class – involving high meat intake,
use of fossil fuels, appliances, air-conditioning, and suburban housing – are not sustainable.”
– Maurice Strong, Rio Earth Summit
“All these dangers are caused by human intervention and it is only through changed attitudes and
behaviour that they can be overcome. The real enemy, then, is humanity itself.”
– Club of Rome, The First Global Revolution
“Mankind is the most dangerous, destructive, selfish and unethical animal on the earth.”
– Michael Fox, vice-president of The Humane Society
“Humans on the Earth behave in some ways like a pathogenic micro-organism, or like the cells of a tumor.”
– Sir James Lovelock, Healing Gaia
“The Earth has cancer and the cancer is Man.”
– Club of Rome, Mankind at the Turning Point
“A cancer is an uncontrolled multiplication of cells, the population explosion is an uncontrolled multiplication of people. We must shift our efforts from the treatment of the symptoms to the cutting out of the cancer. The operation will demand many apparently brutal and heartless decisions.”
– Prof. Paul Ehrlich, The Population Bomb
“A reasonable estimate for an industrialized world society at the present North American material standard of living would be 1 billion. At the more frugal European standard of living, 2 to 3 billion would be possible.”
– United Nations, Global Biodiversity Assessment
“A total population of 250-300 million people, a 95% decline from present levels, would be ideal.”
– Ted Turner, founder of CNN and major UN donor
“… the resultant ideal sustainable population is hence more than 500 million but less than one billion.”
– Club of Rome, Goals for Mankind
“One America burdens the earth much more than twenty Bangladeshes. This is a terrible thing to say in order to stabilize world population, we must eliminate 350,000 people per day. It is a horrible thing to say, but it’s just as bad not to say it.”
– Jacques Cousteau, UNESCO Courier
“If I were reincarnated I would wish to be returned to earth as a killer virus to lower human population levels.”
– Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, patron of the World Wildlife Fund
“I suspect that eradicating small pox was wrong. It played an important part in balancing ecosystems.”
– John Davis, editor of Earth First! Journal
“The extinction of the human species may not only be inevitable but a good thing.”
– Christopher Manes, Earth First!
http://www.infowars.com/enviroment-eugenics-quotes/
Best page for daily NWO news and informations,
but as said a white wash for Rome.
White House Science Czar blames Juedo-Christian religions for Overpopulation, Environmental Destruction in his book ‘Ecoscience’
Prisonplanet.com
December 10, 2009
RELATED: Ecoscience author, Obama Science Advisor Called For “Planetary Regime” To Enforce Totalitarian Population Control Measures
…
http://www.prisonplanet.com/‘ecoscience’-blames-judeo-christian-religions-for-overpopulation-environmental-destruction.html
actually, there is a possibility that the “666” hypothesis is a mistranslation and the correct translation is “in the name of Allah”. it could be correct considering everytime is says “name” in Reveletion, a TITLE follows. not all nationa fall under the antichrist and his kingdom, that is NOWHERE in the bible. if that were true, the final battle in Revelation would be impossible.
Hi Aiyana,
…and power was given the beast over ALL kindreds, and tongues, and NATIONS.
And ALL that dwell upon the earth shall worship him…And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand…
Rev.13
Clearly a world government. The Illuminati/Free-Masons are working since hundreds of years for it. The Antichrist is not islamic, but the masonic Christ, Maitreya. He already is promoted as THE Christ on CNN. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjwdFkapK1w
.
“Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be DIVERSE from all kingdoms, and shall DEVOUR the whole earth [Luther bible: “all countries”], and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise..”
Daniel 7
This vision shows how the global governance of Rev.13 will be achieved. The Illuminati are creating 10 global economic regions, the first is already here, the EU. The next one will be NAFTA/North American Union.
African Union, Asian Union are also far advanced.
The 10 superstates will give the AC the reign over the earth.
This will happen in the name of “peace and security”.
Whats accelerating this transforming?
Global crisises, like the war on terror, global warming, global financial crisis, etc.
We should expect new attacks under false flag, as it was 9/11 for example. Then, in the name of “peace and security” the patriot Acts and thus dictatorship and the NAU can come into effect.
“Order out of Chaos” (Ordo ab chao). As easy as that.
I am not an American so I don’t know what this means … but I thought you might find it interesting … that is if it is true.
More news from the States …
I just want to bring up an interesting point. Here in California there is a lot of buzz about the recent immigration laws passed in Arizona recently. They are talking about boycotting their products and even their sports teams. Obama just had a press conference stating his opposition to the bill. The whole country is outraged at the idea that a cop could ask anyone for their I.D. at their whims. Now imagine that the police could aim a scanner at a car full of people and be able to scan their implanted chips and receive a complete dossier on everyone. We could round up all the illegals in a few days! So if there is such a huge outcry about the Arizona law, imagine what would happen if this chip thing were to be suggested, especially in the border states?
Personally, I don’t think this idea will ever fly in the US. And most poor third-world countries don’t have the resources to implement or maintain such a system. Everyone assumes that this technology can be quickly introduced to the whole planet as soon as the antichrist arrives, but then we were supposed to be driving flying cars by now according to predictions in the 1950’s.
This whole thing is a great distraction perpetrated by Satan to divert peoples attention from the true mark of the beast, which was implemented a thousand years ago. The prophecy has been fulfilled and it will be repeated. Its the same beast as 1000 years ago and except in name, the same false prophet.
The Book of Revelation is filled with symbolism. Perhaps more than any other book in the bible. The beast is symbolic and so is his mark. So is his kingdom. There is very little in Revelation that you can take literally. Look first at the symbolism – it is there where you will find the truth.
hi james
I personally do not see anything wrong with checking IDs. THe police do it anyway to check current status to drive, to check someone they suspect of drinking alcohol, or checking ID if person is suspected of a crime. The illegals just do not want to obey the law. Pretty simple. They all have the mark of the beast anyhow, with an attitude like that.
While the chip is already promised, I agree that the meaning and the mindset behind it is more important than the chip itself. The chip just represents the rebellion and authority against God’s principles we see now.
So how many people out there are looking forward to getting a chip? Anyone? Who will vote for it? Who will keep its supporters in office. Its supposed to be right around the corner. But absolutely no one wants it. The congress might as well vote for a state religion or to make slavery legal again. Americans won’t let it happen and neither will the people in any other country. And I don’t care how charismatic he is, no man will ever take over the entire world and force these chips against the will of 7 billion people.
You only think it because you believe the bible says so. All based on highly subjective interpretation of very symbolic bible verses.
Your decision about the mark of the beast being symbolic or literal may be critical in your salvation. Maybe while you are waiting for the chip you should take another look at your interpretation.
I’m just saying…
Hi James,
You guys are forgeting one thing. This beast (antichrist) will be proclaiming himself to be God or anything that is called God. This is not going to be some run-of-the-mill politician where the people vote him and his ideas into office. And to back up his claim as being God, he is going to receive a fatal headwound and survive and his right hand man,the false prophet will be doing signs, miracles and wonders on his behalf, that is, for strengthening his credibility of who he is claiming to be. Furthermore, since the mark is said to be “His Mark” and anyone who wants to live must receive it, that is most definitely worship. And regarding those times Jesus said, whoever will save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life will gain it. While you are standing in line to receive your mark and patting each other on the backs because you keep the Sabbath on Saturday, you’ll be doing exactly what the word of God “litterally” says not to do. Eternity is not going to be decided by what day of the week one worships God, but receiving the mark of his enemy and thereby worshipping him, will.
In short, you override the literal interpretation of God’s word with your personal system of interpretation. You would think that at least you have a rule of thumb that says, we believe in keeping the sabbath on Saturday, but if technology does produce a device that is to go into the right hand or forehead which will allow us to make purchases, then avoid it at all costs, simpley because that is what God’s word says would literally happen.
“The Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath.”
Make no mistake, if you receive that mark to be able to continue buying and selling, which is credit and debit via computer transaction, then read Revelation 14 and it will tell you what consequences are to those who do.
The burden of proof is on you sabbath keepers, because I can agree with what the literal text says, but you can’t, because your interpretaton requires you to sybolize the “mark”, the “right hand” and the “forehead” as meaning something other than these being literal.
Well Don, I’m glad you are looking out for my eternal soul, and I am simply returning the favor. There has always been two competing interpretations of the mark which is the theme of this blog. So much of Revelation is symbolic and you can simply not take everything literally so we must choose what we think is literal and what we think is symbolic. Both interpretations of the mark have their supporters and both can make a good case for their side.
I think what it comes down to is what you believe the purpose of the prophecy is. As with most prophecy I believe it is a warning to God’s people to get their house in order before he returns to rule the world. As with Noah’s flood and Sodom and Gomorrah he will be dealing harshly with those who break his laws and ignore his commandments. He is telling his main church (woman) [The Catholics – Vatican] and her harlots (offshoots – Protestants) that he will destroy the Babylon (paganism) in them before they can become the bride of Christ. He will restore his law and his commandments to his people. They will all observe his sabbath day once again. Saturnalia and Ishtar will be abolished.
These things will be most important to God. He won’t care if you use a chip to make purchases, but if you decide to work on Saturday, you will be in big trouble during the millennium.
We sabbath keepers are simply getting a jump on things. As for the chip, we simply don’t believe it is going to happen and if it does, we will also refuse it just like almost everyone else. I don’t believe in the New World Order but that the Vatican is the beast and the next pope (Peter the Roman) will be the false prophet. (There is no antichrist in Revelation – it is a misnomer). The pope will force Sunday worship (not much of a stretch) and the pope is already considered to be God’s representative on earth by 1.3 billion Catholics. His title is the Vicar of Christ – not a stretch to eliminate the Vicar part. This prophecy is nearly fulfilled. We do not have to wait for a New World Order and a charismatic world dictator to take over all world governments. We don’t have to wait for 7 billion people to receive a computer chip in their hands.
So we are comfortable with our beliefs and we’re ready for Christ’s return, and beyond. Our advantage is that we can keep an eye out for a different Antichrist and if you are right, we will know him just as you would and we won’t be fooled either. But if we are correct, the Sundaykeepers will receive the mark without even realizing it while they continue to wait for an Antichrist that will never appear.
The Book of Revelation is filled with intentional mystery and symbolism. You must learn the prophecy code and apply it throughout the book. I am working on a new web site that will address this issue and when I am done I will pass on the web address so you can check it out in more detail.
God bless, everyone!
James, re: “Americans won’t let it happen and neither will the people in any other country. And I don’t care how charismatic he is, no man will ever take over the entire world and force these chips against the will of 7 billion people.”
I have to say…how easy was it for everyone to start using debit cards? And at fast food restaurants no less…I remember when only few started it and I thought it was so “bizarre” but now ALL of them are doing it and its the “norm”. I also remember when writing a check was accepted and now vendors prefer the debit card swiping-faster and easier…just sign (if using credit) or put in your “PIN” for a quicker check out. My point is this, it will be subtle, not obvious…and with alot of Public relations selling it to the masses…..just a thought.
This is Ann Minch’s web site for anyone who is interested:
http://debtorsrevoltnow.blogspot.com/
http://www.revoltstartsnow.com/
Personally I chose to go with a New Beginning Financial. I’m a victim too.
http://anewbf.com/
http://anewbf.com/about.htm
Paul McGuire has a new book coming out:
http://paulmcguireblog.blogspot.com/2010/02/are-you-ready-to-receive-microchip.html
I believe everyone will fight it, but it doesn’t mean they won’t try to force it on us. At my hospital when I refused to get the H1N1 vaccine, I was forced to wear a mask for over 3 months.
http://www.spychips.com/
I really like to post videos with a biblical message. What I love about You Tube is the links. And sure enough I linked to a video by a Messianic Jew after watching Paul’s video above This is what I love. This is a perfect message that relates to this topic.
Some people wanted an explanation of the video put together by Jonathan Cahn on “The End of America”. As you know I can’t write. so I went on the internet to find an article explaining it. I think this is the best one I came across. Some people think 9/11 was done by Islamic Terrorists, others like myself think it was an inside job. Regardless Rabbi Cahn maintains it was God’s judgement on this country. That’s very interesting. Watch the video on the “Invisible Empire” and all the pieces of the puzzle start to fall into place as to why we are getting judged. It’s too bad unbelievers are the ones being used of God to expose this evil. I guess if he can use a donkey in the Tanach to get his message out he can use unbelievers. You and God will have to draw your own conclusions after reading the article and watching the videos.I know it seems I’m always going down Rabbit trails and getting off the subject and I always seems to end up on the subject of 9/11, but this ties into Aaron Russo’s video on Micro-chipping and Ann Minches video debtors revolt begins now.
hi kitti
I agree.
The method, to me, is secondary.
If it is good, it is a blessing.
If it is bad, it is judgment.
To read the complete article go to this web site:
http://www.holybibleprophecy.org/september%2011%20prophecy.htm
SYCAMORE – THE 9/11 TRAGEDY
by ELLIOTT NESCH
AMERICA AND ISRAEL
In the history of the world, only two nations have begun from their inception by being dedicated to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob: Israel and America.
Thus, America’s future blessings, like Israel, would depend on its relationship to God. Should America depart from God, then God would remove His blessings of peace, prosperity and protection.
America, like ancient Israel, has departed from God. She has become the largest exporter of pornography around the world. She has become the leading advocacy of homosexuality. She has killed 50 million children in their mothers’ womb. Like ancient Israel, she has sought prosperity rather than the One who gave it.
Nearly 3,000 years ago, ancient Israel was in a state of deep apostasy. Therefore, God removed their protective hedge and allowed her enemies to come against the nation.
The Assyrians, a Semitic people as the Arabs who attacked America, invaded the northern part of the land and God sent this initial attack to wake up His people.
However, instead of being warned by the judgment, they boasted against it. At that time, the following word of the Lord came through the prophet Isaiah.
Only the coasts of the land of Israel were touched in this first attack and suddenly Israel lost its sense of security. An attack had never happened in this measure before. Nevertheless, it was limited damage and the heartland wasn’t touched. In it, God was speaking to Israel, but Israel missed the message.
God finally removed the protective hedge about Israel, and allowed this attack, but only on a limited scale. He then gave Israel a period of grace to hearken unto His voice and turn back to Him in repentance or to continue in rebellion. Isaiah said that the people will defy God’s merciful judgment by rebuilding the fallen bricks with stronger hewn stones and replacing the common sycamores with stronger Cedars.
There are at least 8 signs or heralds of judgment within this text of Isaiah 9:8-10 as the people of Israel reacted to the first incursion paralleling America’s reaction to the 9/11 terrorist attacks. They can be outlined as follows:
1. “Who say in pride and arrogance of heart.”
2. “The bricks are fallen down.”
3. “But we will rebuild.”
4. “Let us build for ourselves a tower.”
5. “We will rebuild with hewn stones.”
6. The Spirit of Defiance.
7. “The sycamores are cut down.”
8. “We will replace them with cedars.”
GOD HIMSELF WILL DO IT
The northern kingdom of Israel was attacked by the Assyrians, the rod of God’s anger Later, ultimate judgment came and Israel fell to the Assyrians in 721 BC. Though Assyria was an ungodly and wicked nation, God used them to judge His people. God used Israel’s enemies as a rod to chasten them as a last resort to bring them back to His love. God says,
RINGING IT HOME – THE PROPHETIC 9/11 FULFILLMENT
On October 11, 2001, Pastor David Wilkerson gave a message to his congregation of Times Square Church. In addressing the World Trade Center attacks of the preceding month, Pastor Wilkerson prophetically read from Isaiah chapter 9, verses 8-11, verses frequently applied to the pattern of judgment of two houses of Israel:
“The ninth chapter of the prophet Isaiah if you will, please. . . . In the midst of all of this, turmoil and chastening from the hand of God, verse 8, the Lord sent a word to Jacob and it lighted upon Israel . . . Verse 10, The bricks are fallen down but we will rebuild with hewn stones. . . Look at verse 11, Isaiah 9, verse 11, Therefore the LORD shall set up the adversaries of Rezin against him, and join his enemies together, verse 13, For the people turneth not unto him that smiteth them, neither do they seek the LORD of hosts.”
Rabbi Jonathan Cahn of Beth Israel Congregation in Lodi, New Jersey was given the same understanding of Isaiah 9:
This is long enough. You will have to go to the web page.
Here’s a couple web sites on the RFID chips:
http://www.physorg.com/news178186859.html
http://industry.bnet.com/pharma/10005250/verichip-buys-steel-vault-creating-micro-implant-health-recordcredit-score-empire/
BREAKING NEWS: Italy and Greece are banning cashomoney over EUR 5000,- / 1500,- .
And this is just the beginning… that will come globally.. the EU is the testing ground, hence the attack on the Euro..
North American Union will be next established.
Money as we know it will cease to exist.
Total control in a communistic world government, with its New Age religion.
God bless
Obama said, that the US relationship to Mexiko is not defined by its borders. And Calderon said, the american citizen have to be disarmed!!
Obama also said that he is working on a new international order for global democtraic values
Two former CIA officials have admitted to creating a fake video in which intelligence officers dressed up as Osama Bin Laden and his cronies in an effort to defame the terrorist leader throughout the middle east.
The details are outlined in a Washington Post article by investigative reporter and former Army Intelligence case officer Jeff Stein.
http://www.prisonplanet.com/former-cia-officials-admit-to-faking-bin-laden-video.html
Sure, you HAVE to fake a dead bin Laden..
The technology above is being used at my husband’s work. He’s been complaining so much about it. I always believed that if we ever saw a day like we are experiencing that all we had to do was point it out to others and they would see and understand what’s going on. But I find that is not the case. There are going to be so many people who are going to accept this technology on the basis of modernization and being progressive.If they accept this without questioning it what about when the anti-christ comes on the scene and decieves the masses?
http://www.newsweek.com/id/233773
“The genius of Google, Facebook, and others is that they’ve created services that are so useful or entertaining that people will give up some privacy in order to use them. Now the trick is to get people to give up more—in effect, to keep raising the price of the service”
“These companies will never stop trying to chip away at our information. Their entire business model is based on the notion of “monetizing” our privacy. To succeed they must slowly change the notion of privacy itself—the “social norm,” as Facebook puts it—so that what we’re giving up doesn’t seem so valuable. Then they must gain our trust. Thus each new erosion of privacy comes delivered, paradoxically, with rhetoric about how Company X really cares about privacy. I’m not sure whether Orwell would be appalled or impressed. And who knew Big Brother would be not a big government agency, but a bunch of kids in Silicon Valley?
“The problem with buying things with your privacy is you really don’t know how much you’re paying. With money, five bucks is five bucks. But what is the value of your list of friends? If it’s not worth much, your membership on Facebook may be the deal of a lifetime. If it’s incredibly valuable, you’re getting massively ripped off. Only the techies know how much your info is worth, and they’re not telling. But the fact that they’d rather get your data than your dollars tells you all you need to know.”
Hi kittii,
You said:
“The technology above is being used at my husband’s work. He’s been complaining so much about it. I always believed that if we ever saw a day like we are experiencing that all we had to do was point it out to others and they would see and understand what’s going on. But I find that is not the case. There are going to be so many people who are going to accept this technology on the basis of modernization and being progressive.If they accept this without questioning it what about when the anti-christ comes on the scene and decieves the masses?”
You are so right about that. I have been watching this technology ever since the first ATM machines came out and I knew then that this technology would have something to do with mark of the beast that was prophecied of. Not long after that, the POS system came out and you started seeing them getting set up in the fast food restaurants, gas stations, grocery stores, etc, etc. Then we started seeing the “Key Fobs;” just wave your fob past the gas pump and viola, instant debit to your account. Now I have noticed that there are more self check-out lines in the grocery stores, Ikia and Home Depot’s to name a few. The world continues to move towards a cashless society, setting the stage for that future, self proclaimed god, the beast, and his mark. The system is already in place, which is credit and debit (buying and selling) via computer transaction. There are some who think that it can’t be a literal mark as the word of God proclains, because of the belief that it would take trillions of dollars to switch over to that system, but the fact is, that system is already here. All that needs to be done is for the chip to be put into use and most of the businessess have the ability to scan a personal subdermal chip or at least all that would have to be done is a change of scanning device to hook up to their already existing internet connection. The system to be used has already been and is currently in use, which is the ablity to credit and debit ones bank account via computer transaction. The mark will be the same priciple as the debit card, which allows the individual to make their purchase, swipe their card and instantly debit their bank accunt. The very fact that we now have subdermal chips the size of a grain of rice should should raise red flags with all those who know what is truely going on. But as you said, you’d think that people would get it, but they don’t. They are already using this RFID chip technology at a specific club in Barcelona Spain, Tuesday nights being “Chip Night.” They order their drink, wave their hand over the counter and it instantly debits their bank account. The people are even happy to receive it as a fashion statment. The motto is, “You don’t have to worry about carrying around a purse, wallet or credit or debit cards. Of course the full purpose of this techology won’t come into being until that beast shows up.
Now, this is my take in regards to when it says:
“He forces all both great and small, rich and poor, free and slave to receive a mark in his right hand or forehead and except anyone had the mark they would not be able to buy or sell.”
I believe the way in which the inhabitants of the earth are “Forced” to receive the mark is not going to be by physical force, but by removing the other methods of buying and selling, such as cash, checks, credit and debit, etc. I believe at some point, the false prophet is going to set a date for all those other methods of buying and selling to become obsolete, so that the only method of buying and selling that will be left will be his mark, ergo the “forcing.” At that point, an individual will have to make the choice of either receiving the mark, wich will allow him to access his account via computer or to reject it and keep the testimony of Jesus and the word of God at the expense of persecution and death.
I keep hearing people say, “Oh, the people won’t let that happen. They would vote it out.” But, what these people continue to forget is that, this ruler that is coming is not going to be your typical politician, as he is going to be proclaiming himself to be God or anything that is called God. He will even have the counterfeit signs, miracles and wonders to back up his claim, which will be perfored by his right-hand man, the false prophet; sll for the purpose of giving credibility to the first beast.
The problem with a lot of these people that don’t believe that it is a liter mark, literal right hand, literal forehead and literally for buying and selling, is because they symbolize what is meant to be literal, which takes away from the true meaning. The very fact that I can see and read about computer chips being manufactured to be used under the skin for the purpose of security, medical information, GPS and also for making financial transactions, tells me that we are at the door and the church is ready to go!
It makes sense that the technology would have to be recognized in its infancy, because it is not something that could just pop up, but the technology had to build to where it is today. I for one will continue to watch this as I have for the last 30 years as I am sure that you will also, until the Lord comes from heaven to take us back to the Father’s house.
Hey Don I have a quick question for you.
I have heard that the medical industry is thinking of chipping patients to include updated medical histories plus allergies and other important life-saving information on the chip. The info would also include the same information being suggested for the new national ID card. This would also help with illegal immigration and terrorist infiltration.
These chips would not be used for banking purposes. There would be no bank account information in them whatsoever. They would most likely be installed by medial institutions and not by the government.
I can see these being used on a limited and personal level. What would your bible say to do with these devices?
Hi James,
To answer your question, these other uses for this subdermal chip are just part of the technology. They can be used for medical identification, GPS tracking and a number of other uses, but the one that is of concern, is for the use of buying and selling, as the word of God specifies. The emergence of this mark and the future removal of the other monotary options is what is in view. By removing the other methods of buying and selling (credit and debit) and leaving only the mark to be able to buy or sell, it will force people to receive it in order to continue living, for without it no one will be able to perform computer transactions, that is, to be able to credit and debit their accounts. As an example, let’s say that the debit card was the mark of the beast and every other method for buying and selling was removed and now the debit card was the only way of doing business. Anyone that did not have a debit card would not be able to be apart of the world system. This is how it will be with the mark. I believe that during the middle of the seven years, he will make cash, checks, credit, debit and any other method obsolete, leaving only his mark. The decisioin will be black and white, no gray area. One will ether have to receive it to live and thereby aligning themselves with the beast, because it is his mark or reject it; taking ones stand for Christ and the word of God at the cost of persecution and death.
As a rule of thumb, I would not have anything put under my skin, muchless my right hand or forehead. I don’t even use credit or debit cards, because I will not even use the technology that is paving the way for the this mark. Everytime I go into a grocery store or some other business, I notice the ease at which everyone pulls out their debit cards to make their payments, so what do you think is going to happen when their very lives depend on receiving his mark to be able to live? They are already willfully embracing the system that will be used by the beast, which will doom the inhabitants of the earth. Not only that, but I have been noticing the increase of self check-out lines. People scan their own items, swipe their cards and they’re done. More and more, people are paying their bills on line and even from their phones. We are on the doorstep and the Day of the Lord is almost here, when the seals, trumpets and bowls will be unleashed and the beast will do all that is written of him. In short, I would say, don’t receive anything on or under the skin of your right hand or forehead, simply because these are the areas mentioned in God’s word and certainly don’t receive anthing on or under the skin that would allow you to make purchases like a debit card.
One more quick question.
I’m on veterans disability pension and food stamps so all my income is electronically deposited into my accounts. I pay my bills and make almost all my personal purchases on line, such as eBay. I don’t use a card for those expenses, just the computer. Even if I had a chip I can’t get to the electric company so they can swipe my forehead. There are many other people who use this system. Are you saying that these forms of commerce will be eliminated? How about bank transfers. Swiss accounts. Etc, etc.
Are corporations exempt from the chip? If I incorporate myself can I avoid the mark?
And what about bartering? Will it be outlawed? Will you need the chip to do it? What about eBay? As an eBay seller will someone require me to install a scanner to read my chip before setting up an auction?
Will Christians like you start a secret underground society to get food and supplies to those who do not take the chip? Or are we supposed to stand up and defy the government and become willing martyrs for Christ?
Or will we all be raptured long before the beast comes to power? If so we need not worry about any of this. All we need to do is believe in Jesus and go to church every Sunday and we are good to go.
Or are we?….
James you are faithless … Pray if you know why. Time is closing in.
All or nearly all have already received the mark!!
The beast ?? Wonder no more about it.
I agree that the mark of the beast is already here and most Christians have it. The beast is present and the false prophet will soon take office. He will come from the beast. I already know his name.
I am prepared.
My faith does not depend on a new world order and a hundred complex conspiracy theories. It does not depend on a massive make-over of the world financial system. My prophecy is nearly complete, yours has not yet begun. I have have seen God’s words fulfilled. You are hoping to see it begin someday soon.
Prophecy is repeating itself. Just as the Jews totally missed Jesus, others today are also waiting for something that has already happened. They have developed many fanciful scenarios all bolstered by current world events.
I expect that Satan himself is behind this – manipulating world affairs to lead believers astray and taking their attention away from the real issue. It seems to be working quite well as far as I can see.
It may be beyond my power to change all this. But if I give up, then I will have lost my faith. So now, while it is still strong I will try to bring my message to whoever will listen. So don’t expect me to go away any time soon.
what is his name? and how and what is the mark?
Lord of the rings. LOL
Hi Lyndsey,
So that there will be no swaying of interpretation, either by me or anyone else, read in the book of Revelation, which is the last book in the bible. For the verses that specifically deal with your question, please read the following:
Rev.13:16
Rev.14:9-11
I would suggest reading the entire book of Revelation over and over again. I can answer one of your questions though, since the answer would be the same from anyone and that is, no one knows the name of the beast, as he is someone who is yet to be revealed. But here are some verses to give you some background on him.
Daniel 7:25
Daniel 9:20-27
Matthew 24
1 John 2:18-23
1 John 4:1-3
2 Thessalonians 2
Revelation 9:11
Revelation 11:1-7
Revelation 13
Revelation 17:8
Revelation 19:19-21
I suggest though, that you read the entire book of Revelation and the rest of the bible for that matter, becasue there is information regarding the beast/antichrist woven throughout God’s word. I would also suggest reading the book of Daniel, which is a kind of sister book to Revelation.
Happy reading!
Thank you guys!…sorry if I was unclear…I was referring to James’ statement: “The beast is present and the false prophet will soon take office. He will come from the beast. I already know his name.”
I was asking James what his name is and what he thought the “mark” was…
Hello Lyndsey
If you wish to learn the identity of the beast and his mark, Mr. McAllister is correct that you will need to read the Book of Revelation several times, just to get started. As you will discover, much of prophecy is symbolic, not literal, which is the theme of this blog.
We recommend that you first learn the symbolism as well as some basic principles of prophecy before attempting to decode the Book of Revelation.
To this end we have just begun a blog site dedicated to unravelling prophesy and we hope you will take a few minutes to visit our site before diving head-long into the Book of Revelation cold-turkey.
May God bless you in your search for the truth.
theprophecygroup.wordpress.com
Hi Malia,
I lost our original thread so I will return to the bottom of the page so you can find it easier.
Anyway, I’m glad you are studying the site I linked you to. I am like you, I read everything and try to keep an open mind and I never trust my own interpretation when I read the bible. It is way too complicated for anyone to just pick it up and read through it and totally understand the true meaning and context of the verses. I always try to study through a number of preachers, teachers etc and if I find conflicting opinions I don’t just pick a description I like and believe it. I try to study the verses myself and try to keep everything in context. Very often some preachers take certain verses out of context to prove their points so I go back several verses or chapters to see what the text in question is referring to. I believe that this is the case with Colossians 2:16. The interpretation you gave me originally sounds possible until you back up several verses and then it becomes more clear. It also helps to understand the situation at the time of the writing and the purpose of the letters in the first place. All this must be taken into account before you can make an informed decision. I grew up catholic and we never used a bible so I didn’t start reading it until later in life. I have to study every point carefully from as many sources as I can find before deciding what I should believe. I like to ask “What would Jesus do?” So I asked myself, if he came back tomorrow, would he go to temple on the sabbath or would he attend mass on Sunday at the vatican?
Would he honor his own commandments or forget he ever wrote them in stone?
Sometimes these questions help me make up my mind.
Try asking them yourself sometime, maybe it will help.
God Bless.
TELEGRAPH:
The G20 moves the world a step closer to a global currency
The world is a step closer to a global currency, backed by a global central bank, running monetary policy for all humanity.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/5096524/The-G20-moves-the-world-a-step-closer-to-a-global-currency.html
The U.S. (resp. the Illuminati puppets) armed North Korea big time
http://www.infowars.com/nuclear-war-between-koreas-brought-to-you-by-the-u-s-government/
The world affairs are now nothing more than a giant show
They are pushing for WW3 = the Matt.24 war – NOT Ez.38 Gogwar – “The end is not yet!” (!!)
Hello again Leslie,
As I stated in my response to your question, you
Ought to read Revelation for yourself so that you
you will not be swayed by any other group or individual, otherwise you will just be adopting their interpretation. Not all off the book of revelation is symbolic. A good rule of thumb is that “if the literal sense makes good sense,then don’t seek any other sense.” The problem with looking at everything as smbolic is that people symbolize what should be taken as literal and then the truth that God intended is lost! I would suggest not visiting anyones site,because you will just be adopting their interpretation. This is how learned, by doing my own studies. I hope this helps. Happy reading!
Jas 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
Jas 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
Jas 1:7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
Strenghten your Faith in Christ, be obedient, and long for the Truth and Wisdom, then you wont need a human teacher:
1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
Thank you Silvan and Don!
Regarding:1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
This is what I know thus far as told to me by the HS…”the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth..”
1) The night Obama won the election..2008, the HS said ” it has begun ”
2) Feb 2010…a few weeks after my father died, the HS told me to learn the Jewish Holidays. I forgot about it then He strongly urged me to do so again shortly before Passover of 2010.
Not long after Passover, I had a dream of the rapture.
I have been reading Revelation, learning the Holidays, reading this blog and watching Israel closely. Oh, and just remembered that when I first started reading this blog site and I got thoroughly involved/obsessed with finding out who the AC was…the HS told me not to focus on “him” the AC , but to put my focus on G-D….so I stopped.
I have learned alot from reading Mariannes’ posts and when the HS said to learn the holidays, well, it all just “fit” like a puzzle..surprise surprise…LOL-G-D might know what he’s talking about…LOL
Lyndsey,
You are right to study the Jewish holidays (annual sabbaths). But know that Jesus has fulfilled the first three – Passover, Feast of Unleavened Bread and Feast of first fruits. Christians are not to celebrate these sabbaths any more. The rest plus the weekly sabbath we are to remember until Jesus fulfils the Feast of Trumpets (when he returns) and the Day of Atonement (when he takes his throne and judges the wicked) We will continue to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles every year plus the weekly sabbath. Don’t let anyone convince you that Jesus will hold Sunday mass after he returns. He always honored the true sabbath and he will make sure we follow him in that regard when he returns.
On the other holidays, Christmas, Easter and St. Valentines day are all pagan and will be destroyed with all the other pagan practices still around today. This is referred to as “Babylon” in Revelation. Don’t believe that Babylon is to be taken literally. The city has been in ruins for thousands of years. It doesn’t represent Islam either simply because Muslims live in the area today. Once again many readers go astray by trying to take everything literally even if it takes a giant leap in logic to do so. To be fair you may want to read the Book of Revelation completely as literal, then again applying the symbolic definitions (I posted them in this blog a while back) then decide for yourself. I was a chip believer for over 20 years simply because I never heard any alternative. With additional study I figured out the truth, so if anyone tells you not to study something, then they are desperately trying to preserve their agenda. Beware of these people. Look at both sides and make up your own mind. Don’t become a sheepish follower of a charismatic teacher/preacher. If you want to believe charisma I would go with the Pope. After all, he is considered infallible and the substitute for God on earth. There’s your Antichrist! And his title (in latin numbers) adds up to 666! Don’t look for a political leader to lead the world, look for a religious man to rule Christianity. The name of the antichrist will be Peter the Roman, the next Roman Catholic Pope.
And his “mark“ (a sign or seal of approval) will be simple: Ignore God’s commandments and in particular His sabbath and swear allegiance to the Roman sun god Mithras (even unknowingly) and worship on his day – Sunday. Its as simple as that. No chip, no world dictator – those are the subjects of fanciful books and movies – just the rejection of God’s laws. When you read the Book of Revelation, see how often it mentions the commandments and their relationship to the mark. You will discover that the difference between those who have the mark and those that do not is that the ones without the mark are those that keep His commandments. That you can take literally!
I would say this, you really don’t have to read the Book of Revelation to be saved. Just honor the commandments and you will make it into the kingdom. That may sound way too simple for Don, but as far as God is concerned, its all that is required.
Bless you in your studies.
Hello James and Lyndsey,
First of all James, if by “Keep his commandments” you mean to “Observe the law,” then yes, I have a problem with that, because no one will be justified by observing the law. As God’s word states, Jesus is the end of the law and it was nailed to the cross as completed. We belong to the covenant of faith, where we are not following after the written code, but are led by the Spirit of God. The faith covenant was intoduced 430 years before the law to Abraham, who was credited with righteousness because he believed God and we are also credited with righteousness having that same faith. When we sin and we confess it, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sin and the sacrifice was already made by him. When Christ was crucified, we were freeded from our commitment to that husband (The law)an now we belong to another, Jesus Christ. We are saved by faith, through grace. How difficult is that James?
Furthermore, you say that you don’t have to read the book of revelation to be saved and I would concurr, but I would add that, the information was important enough that of this book God said:
“The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place.”
and
“Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed ar those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.”
So, it appears that revelaton is has very important information that God wants us to know and take to heart, as there is no other book in the bible with these blessings. However, there is a danger to misinterpreting the words of the book, which states:
“I warn everyone who hears the words of this prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in
the holy city, which are dscribed in this book.”
So, take heed, as misinterpreting what is meant to be interpreted as literal, because I believe that would constitute adding to or taking away from what this book of revelation has to say. When you read something that is meant to be taken literally and you interpret it symbolically, because you override God’s literal interpretation with your own system of interpretation, you are taking away from what God is saying. I’ll give you an example, when God’s word says, “a mark,” I believe that John is using he best comparison that he can, since he doesn’t know what a computer chip is. When the word of God says “Right Hand,” then I believe that the literal “right hand” is in view. When he says “Forehead,” I believe that the literal space between your eyes and hairline is in view, but you can’t boast that, because you have symbolized the mark, the right hand and the forehead and made them out to be something completely foreign!
You say that the mark of the beast is the “observance of the Sabbath on Sunday,” when Jesus said “The Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath,” yet you hang our eternity on which day a man worships God. With the emergence of the sudermal chip and the concept utilizing it for the purpose of buying and selling, it is clearer than ever that this is what John was seeing in his vision of the future. Do you think that that God is going to say to those who believed what he wrote about a literal mark in the right hand or foread for the purpose of buying or selling “Why did you believe what I wrote?” Or is he most likely going to say to those who symbolized the literal and thereby changing his true meaning “Why did you change what I wrote and teach it?” And James says, “Lord, you mean that you actually meant what you wrote, how is that possible?” God says “a mark in the right or the forehead” and I say “I agree Lord, a mark in the literal right hand or the forehead.” God says, “Without it no one will able to buy or sell.” And I say, “I agree Lord, without it no one will be able to buy or sell.” But what does James and his followers say, “It is not a literal mark as the word of God states, neither is it referring to the literal right hand nor the literal forehead.”
Do you realize the dangers of proclaiming this James? You’re teaching people that, this mark is not a literal mark, that it won’t be used for the purpose of buying and selling, but that it symbolizes observering the Sabbath on Sunday. So, when that subdermal chip begins to run parallel with cash, checks, credit and debit, will those people that bought into your interpretation be so convinced that they would actually stand in line to get their chips because because they believed in your interpretation? I tell you, God is not going to question me as to why I believed in exactly what he wrote. On the other hand (and I say this for the sake of this debate) if you are wrong in your symbolic interpretation, how many people will you have led to be convinced that it is ok to receive that chip, beause you told them that God wasn’t speaking literally?
The rule of interpretaton is “If the literal sense makes good sense, then don’t seek any other sense.” When people begin interpreting the literal as symbolic, they change God’s meaning. When I read “A woman clothed with the sun, the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars,” I say, “this is symbolic.” When I read that John describes an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns, I say “this is symbolic.” When I read that “a third of the earth was burnt up and a third of trees were burnt up,” I say “This is literal” why, because there is nothing in the context that even hints of symbolism and therefore, a third of the earth will be burnt up just as God wrote it. In fact, I am in the middle of a project where I am listing the subjects of every chapter of revelation, because I am tired of hearing idiots making the comment “Most of revelation is symbolic.” I’m only half way through and symbolism is losing, big time! And whenever there is a symbolism, the literal description is given or is evident from the context. I’m tired of this “Grasping at straws” interpreations, where God’s word says “The sky is blue saith the Lord.” And then you have all these people searching scripture going “I wonder what that means?” Then after they’ve done all there research and come to their interpretation, they come back with “The sky is blue represents the French Revolution!” Huh?!
Read this book of revelation as being literal in meaning, unless a symbolic interpreation is requirded.
You are right on Lyndsey! The other thing that James continues to forget is that, this is not going to be your run-of-the-mill politician,but someone who will be proclaiming to be God, with miracles,signs and wonders to back up his claim.
That sounds like this guy on youtube..Raj Patel? Maitreya? I “accidently” came across the video when looking at something else. I have heard of Maitreya in passing but never gave it much thought. These people honestly believe he is “the christ”…they are saying the Maitreya blessed some waters in Kenya and now people are being healed…My personal thoughts are that if its “too obvious” then perhaps its a decoy/distraction…you never know though. What I do know is THE CHRIST is on his way and his presence/arrival will be unquestionable/no doubt/sky opening up-big wow!
Here is the video I ran across:
Here is the other video regarding the “miracles”…
This Maitreya dude is certainly an interesting character, but the question is, “Is he the antichrist or just another false prophet, who we know will come in Jesus’ name?”
He is obviously not a Christian so no Christian in his right mind will accept him as their savior, nor will the Jews. He is way too esoteric to take over all the worlds nations – he is not political enough to qualify for such a position.
None of the major religions will give their authority over to him no matter how many miracles he performs. Will the Catholics dump the Pope and follow him? No way.
So what will his role be in the end-time scenario?
Well, if he doesn’t take over the whole world and proclaim that Christianity is the one true faith and he is their Messiah, I don’t really see him as a factor in bible prophecy.
He seems like a concerned individual who is trying to do humanity a solid, so while we should keep an eye on him I’m not sure its fair at this time to proclaim him to be the antichrist and controlled by Satan. That would not be the proper Christian thing to do right now anyway.
Unless of course he starts lecturing on international banking that is.
Jesus said that there would be false christs and false prophets in the last days (plural). We have already seen the likes of Jim Jones, David Karesh and most recently, Wayne Bent aka Michael Trevessor and I’m sure many more than we even know about. But, according to God’s word, thee antichrist/beast will be identified by making a seven year covenant with Israel. How do I know that it is Israel, because in the middle of that seven year covenant, he breaks it and causes the daily sacrifice to cease and sets up the abomination of desolation in the “Holy Place,” which would point to whom he made the covenant with, Israel. Therefore, whoever makes a seven year covenant with Israel, allowing them to rebuild their long awaited temple, that would be the guy. Furthermore, the one who also breaks his covenant in the middle of that seven years and proclaims himself to be God would also be further proof. Oh yeah, don’t forget also the one who makes manditory his mark for the purpose of buying and selling. How does buying and selling constitute worship? Simple, when the one who is proclaiming to be God, makes every other method of buying and selling obsolete leaving only “his mark,” then the inhabitants of the earth will have to make a choice of whether or not to receive it in order to continue living life and thereby aligning themselves with the beast or to reject his mark and him and his image and be ready to be persecuted and face death for the word of God and the testimony of Jesus. This is why Jesus, speaking of the last days said:
“Whoever saves his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake and the gospels shall gain it.”
That is what they will be doing by recieving his mark. They will be concerned about saving their lives here, at the expense of turning their backs on Jesus and God’s word, and thereby forefiting eteral life.
Here are some uses of the word “forehead” in revelation:
Revelation 7:2-4 (King James Version)
2And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
4And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Revelation 14
1And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father’s name written in their foreheads.
Revelation 22:3-5 (King James Version)
3And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
4And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
Revelation 9:3-5 (King James Version)
3And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
Revelation 7:3 (King James Version)
3Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
Revelation 9:4 (King James Version)
4And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
Revelation 14
1And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father’s name written in their foreheads.
Revelation 17
3So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
4And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
None of these references are to be taken literally. God is giving us a hint as to how to define the remaining cases. Do you really want to ignore these hints? Is it up to the individual reader to decide what is literal?
Now for the Ten Commandments:
First lets see what the apostles had to say:
1 John 5:2 (King James Version)
2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
Matthew 19:17 (King James Version)
17And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
1 John 2:2-4 (King James Version)
2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 Corinthians 14:37 (King James Version)
37If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
Mark 7:7 (King James Version)
7Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Now see what Jesus had to say in his Revelation:
Revelation 12:17 (King James Version)
17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Revelation 14: (King James Version)
11And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Revelation 22:14 (King James Version)
14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Sounds to me like the commandments will still be in full force when Christ returns. The Antichrist will try to get his followers to break them – one or more.
Matthew 5:19 (King James Version)
19Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Read this verse very carefully before you claim that the commandments were “nailed to the cross.”
Remember, there is only one Jesus. Only ONE who died for us.
Jesus promised to return, and he also described how he would return- at the battle of Armageddon to protect Israel from its enemies. He also warned of false Christs and lying signs and wonders used by them. Jesus never promised a special star to appear before his return.
Maitreya is NOT the reincarnation of Jesus. Maitreya never died for our sins. He does not mention redemption and repentance of sins. He walks around and does false wonders. He does not oppose the enemies of Israel.
Remember also that, at this time, Satan is the prince of this earth and the air above, and can perform lying signs and wonders in order to deceive. This includes light shows and images in the sky. He takes advantage of those who do not read the Word of God, and do not therefore know the words of Jesus, or the rest of the prophetic contents.
UFOs, special stars, are all deceptions to pull people into the most imaginative causes, and ignore the word of God.
One thing Satan is doing is announcing his own return, which then would indicate that Jesus would soon return after this to stop his deception.
When Jesus returns, ALL eyes will see him, and he will come with his angels and saints…..he will save Israel, and then destroy the wicked before he sets up the Millennial kingdom.
Matreiya does not mention the wrath that is coming to the wicked. he is going to unite all mankind – both good and evil – and under this deception that both good and evil are equal, he will set them up for the wrath of God.
This is an brilliant documentary by brother Keith Thompson about the coming New Age world religion and Maitreya. Must see.
It has been pulled of by youtube several times from other channels.
I agree! I have been keeping an eye on Israel, the PM, Obama and the “quartet” for months now regarding this peace treaty. This Raj Patel fellow seems to have some financial backing…pull…resources etc so a red flag is raised for him, unfortunately. But he’s a bit too obvious. But then I remember there are 3 to look out for…Beast, false prophet and AC. I have decided not to worry myself about the AC. I know we are closer then ever before…just waiting for the sky to open up…..On a personal note…my son who has Autism always yells, “daddy comin, daddy comin..” I say, YES, “daddy is comin…PLEASE, daddy, come soon! LOL (He’s drivin me nuts!) HA! I say open up the sky and lets get this show on the road! 🙂
your son sounds smarter than many adults. 🙂
Out of the mouth of babes huh?…:)
Don’t sweat the Antichrist, that is a misnomer. It is never mentioned in Revelation or Daniel. And where the term is used it simply refers to everyone who is against Christ.
There is only the beast (a kingdom) and its image or spokesperson, the false prophet.
The beast is the Vatican – a religio-political kingdom and its representative is the pope whose title: VICARIUS FILII DEI adds up to 666 in Roman numerals. (Try it!).
By the way, that title reads: Replacement for the son of God. The catholic catechism already proclaims him to be Christ in the flesh. 1.3 billion Catholics believe it already. And you’re still looking for someone else?
Watch for the next pope to broker a peace treaty between the Jews and the Muslims. Then maybe you will believe me.
Until then feel free to continue looking – nothing wrong with that. Just be careful not to miss the real thing because you’re looking in the wrong place.
I just might be right.
My 3 year daughter also said yesterday “Lord Jesus is coming soon. On white horse” 🙂 🙂
She knows how to build me up 🙂
This is her favourite song at moment http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwDDty6cEns
In reference to the “handwriting of ordinances…nailed…to the cross” (Colossians 2:14), the Greek word translated “handwriting” is cheirographon, and this is the only place the term is used in the Bible. It meant a handwritten record of debt, or what we would today call an IOU. In contemporary apocalyptic literature, this word was used to designate a “record book of sin,” meaning a written account of our sins.
Paul was not saying that God’s law was nailed to the cross. What was nailed there, he said, was all record of our sins. Because God’s law required the death penalty for sin (Romans 6:23), this record is what “was against us, which was contrary to us”, not the law itself. He has forgiven us all our sins (Eph.1:7), and redeemed us from the curse of the law (Gal.3:13). Christ has utterly wiped out the damning evidence of broken laws and commandments which always hung over our heads, and has completely annulled it by nailing it over His own head on the cross. It is the evidence against us, not the law itself, that was nailed to the cross, enabling us to be forgiven.
This becomes clear when we read the rest of this chapter. It is apparent that other issues were involved that had nothing to do with God’s laws given in the Old Testament. Among these were “principalities and powers” (verse 15), “false humility and worship of angels” (verse 18), forbidding to touch, taste and handle (verse 21) and “neglect of the body” (verse 23).
Further, Paul referred to the false teachings in Colosse as rooted in “enticing words” (verse 4), “philosophy and vain deceit” and “the tradition of men” (verse 8). He also referred to submitting to “ordinances” of this world (verse 20) and “the commandments and doctrines of men” (verse 22). Could Paul, who in Romans 7:12 said the law is “holy and just and good,” possibly be referring to the same law here, or is he addressing an entirely different issue?
http://nccg.org/260Art-10commObject.html
“Common Objections for Not Obeying the Ten Commandments”
Everyone who has an ear let it hear!! Dont be a man of lawlessness!
Please everyone, keep at the back of your mind, that “Israel” may refer now to the Body of Christ and not to the Jews since the new covenant. This “possibility” exists, it is in scripture.
I am not regarding the founding of Republic of Israel as endtime sign. Just saying…
Finally the voice of reason on this verse. Thanks for the detailed and definitive explanation.
Why would Paul or anyone tell someone they can ignore God’s laws, written in stone?
I’m sure Don is going to try though…
🙂
Yes. My Pleasure. It’s from the link.
People have to understand that we are freed from the curse of the law (death) and not the law by itself.
But just simply many rather want to hear itching lies.
James, I believe you wrote that the Feasts of Passover, Unleavened Bread and Firstfruits are invalid.
With the filling up of the Law of Moses, they have come to take new and added meaning in the New Covenant.
Let me say, the SPIRITUAL observation this year of them, personally for my first time, has brought me a never before reached understanding of the cross, my sinful state and the Truth as a whole, especially by observing Unleavened Bread!
It has been a tremendous blessing for me by the Lord!
http://nccg.org/festivals.html
Hi Silvan, I remember trying my best to observe the unleavened bread this year (exhausting) and I remember thinking to myself..”why do we have to do this” and then the HS said..”I wanted to show you that you can’t do this without me”. TRUE! I am sure there was a crumb of bread, cracker etc somewhere that I didn’t get and of course my sons William or Ashton would bring it back into the house! Uggh! It was hard to say the least, but a blessing as well, believe or not. I thought it to be a priviledge to participate for the 1st time something that G-D asked us to do. Regarding your website posted above, I checked it out and clicked on Hebrew roots. To my surprise, when I saw the picture of Jesus kneeling down to the little boy being held by his mom I started to cry. I realized that I wanted that to be William meeting Jesus or even Ashton. My son has severe Autism, age 9. It is sooooooo hard to do just about anything. I ask G-d secretly why…on one hand I know he is sealed forever and safe in going to heaven for sure-no decision to make etc. But on the other hand, it hurts, it is frustrating, it can simply be just too much sometimes, especially when he screams, either at home or out in public. Anyway, the picture was a blessing and unexpected…thank you!
Hi Lyndsey, makes me very happy to hear you received a blessing. Blesses me also.
The greatest lesson from unleavened bread for me was that we are not able to get the yeast out of the leaven by our own efforts. It is IMPOSSIBLE, so that we have to rely fully on Christ supernatural help. Giving our bodys as a living sacrifice and deny ourselves completely.
Yeast, in the negative context, represents sin, which multiplies and spreads almost invisibly. It appears small and harmless but once it gets in you, it becomes unseen. The only evidence that sin is within you is the fact that you start to do bad things. That is the gas of the leaven. You may think it has no consequence. You may even think that you can control it. But the truth is, when yeast enters the dough, it spreads completely and thoroughly throughout the loaf. And once it’s been put in the dough, there is no way you can ever get it out again. Try it sometime – pull open a loaf of bread and see if you can find, let alone remove, the yeast. I guarantee you will fail. And this was the point that Yahweh was making: sin is deadly and there’s not a thing you can do about it once you have admitted it into your life. Nothing short of miraculous intervention can remove it. And that miraculous intervention is the blood of Yah’shua (Jesus).
http://nccg.org/390Art-ChagHaMatzah2002.html
Lyndsey, what a joy it will be when Jesus will heal your child at His coming when our bodys are transformed into glory and perfect health! This will be VERY soon. Oh what a joy!
I always have sorrows that my kid will be saved through faith when she is growing up.
I hope He comes, before she can make a decision against him when being old enough.
I know the odds are bad between many unsaved people and just a few who strive to enter through the narrow gate.
Hi Lyndsey,
just an FYI, the other designations for the beast are man of lawlessness, the ruler, antichrist and the son of destruction, to name a few. I mentioned this because you wrote as though the beast and the AC were two different entities, but they are just different titles for the same guy.
I always thought there were 3
Hi Silvon,
regarding what you said about the.law,I would have to disagree with you. Paul went to great lengths in the books of Romans and Galations to tell us that we are not under the law in any way,shape or form.
“Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.” (Rom.10:4)
“for he himself is our peace,who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier,the dividing wall of hostility,by abolishing in his flesh the law with it’s commandments and regulations.” Eph.2:14-15
“when you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature,God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins. having cancelled the written code,with it’s regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross.” (Col.2:13-15)
“The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless (for the law made nothying perfect), and a better hope is introduced,by which we draw near to God.” (Heb.7:18-19)
“by calling this covenant “new” he has made the first one obsolete; and whatis obsolete and aging will soon disappear.” (Heb.8:13)
These are just a few verses of scripture that shows that we are not under the law whatsoever. If anyone is going to live under the law, then he is obligated to the whole and if you break it at any one place,then you have broken the whole law. As believers in Christ we have nothing to do with that old covenant, but live by faith and are led by the Spirit. The law is dead to me that I may obtain eternal life through faith in him who bought be with his blood and not by following any part of the law. I am
Free in Christ and all things are permissable for me,but we out to use our freedom to glorify God and not to fulfill the evil desires of the flesh. I tell, we are not under the law, but under the covenant of faith completely, else salvation is no longer by grace through faith.
James and anyone else,if you are living according to the writen code with it’s ordinances, regulations and rituals, then you have no part with grace and faith. Just go read Romans and Galatians. Paul makes it quite clear that the previous covenant was cancelled with the coming of Chists covenant of faith.
Are the Jewish Holidays under the old covenant? Why would the HS ask me to learn them if they were cancelled?
Nothing is canceled under Jesus. At Passover, Jesus said to continue in memory of him.
Several feasts are fulfilled, and we should rejoice in what he has already fulfilled, and look forward to what is to come.
We now celebrate the feasts knowing the complete meaning of them now, knowing that each one represents Christ and his relationship with us.
Each feast is no longer just a dry ritual looking back in time. Each feast is a celebration of what has been and what is to come.
The first three festivals – Passover, Unleavened bread and firstfruits were all fulfilled by Jesus’ death, resurrection and ascension. These are to be discontinued. Until his return and ascension to his earthly throne we need to keep the Feast of Trumpets and Day of Atonement. The feast of tabernacles will continue through the millennium so we better get used to it.
Hope that helps.
James,
The church, which is made up of Jew and Gentile is not subject to any of the Jewish feasts and festivals. These have to do with the law. If your attitude is to observe any of these or to do good works in order to earn or maintain your salvation, then grace is no longer operating. There is nothing that you can observe or perform to earn or maintain sslvation. It is only by Christ’s sacrifice on the cross and that alone. Now there is no reason to discuss when the resurrection and catching away takes place in regards to Christ’s return, because you have bigger concerns that need to addressed. If you think that you have to observe something to maintain your salvation, you have a problem. Christ alone accomplished it and the work that God wants us to do is to believe in him who he sent, Jesus Christ. We are saved by grace through faith and not by works, lest any man should boast. Abraham was credited with righteousness by believing God and nothing else. Jesus gave an example of those who think like you do found in the following verses:
“Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me you evil doers!’ ”
The reason that Jesus will say this to them, is because they are coming at him with “Works!” Didn’t we do this and didn’t we do this? Instead of recognizing that he did it all on the cross and by grace through faith they are saved and not by works. I’ll say it again, no one will be justified by the law (works) and those above are the example of that. It is only by acknowledging the shed blood of Christ and his finished work on the cross that anyone will enter in. Below are the commands that Christ was speaking of that we should obey:
“And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. Those who obey his commands have live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us” I John 3:23-24
“Then they asked him, ‘What must we do to do the works God requires?’ Jesus answered, ‘The works of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”
John 6:28
So, the commands that you are talking about are not the ten commandments of the law, for we are led by the Spirit in regards to those, but his command is to believe in the one who he has sent, his Son Jesus Christ.
We are free in Christ, but let us use our freedom to glorify God and not to gratify the evil desires of the flesh. But if anyone sins, let him confess it and Jesus is faithful and will forgive us all our sins.
Sigh. Absolutely NO ONE here speaks of earning his salvation through the law… you are talking to the choir.
Really, we all know that.
Don, how do you understand this saying of the Lord?
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Hi Silon,
I’ll make it simple to understand. If your attitude is that you have to observe a special day or a feast or perform anything as an aide to your salvation, then you are lost. If anyone thinks that they must keep a specific day as necessary for salvation, then they are no longer under grace, which is the only way one can be saved. For example, James thinks that he must keep the Sabbath on Saturday to insure salvation. So, he would be like those in the example that said, “Lord, Lord, didn’t I keep the Sabbath on Saturday?” and didn’t I keep your other feasts?” You must recognize the finished work of work of Christ on the cross alone for salvation. In regards to the ten commandments, we keep them because we are led by the Sprit and not legallistically as the law would have. Once Christ fulfilled the whole law, the requirment was then accomplished in him, for neither they nor we would be able to keep the law. Now by faith in Jesus Christ, we have fulfilled the law and are led by the Spirit. When we break anything that would be considered the law and thereby commit sin, Christ already fulfilled the law and we simply pray for forgiveness and he speaks to the Father on our behalf and we are foregiven, because the Father knows that all sin was already paid for by his Son . As I said, if you will read the letter to the Galatians, it will explain everything.
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.”
Response: And Jesus did exactly that, he fulfilled the whole law on our behalf by living a perfect life in the flesh without breaking any of the laws. And so after fulfilling this, he was crucified and the law with its ordinances, rituals and requirments where nailed to the cross as fulfilled and completed. Now we are no longer bound to the law, but are under the grace of God and led by the Spirit. You can’t be under the law and under grace at the same time.
But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations.
The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.
•Jesus’ teachings on the Law also focused on inward obedience, or obedience of the heart, rather than outward, legalistic obedience. The law is fulfilled ethically rather than ceremonially,”
Don,
the difference between old covenant and new covenant is that in the first Yahweh made a covenant with a race, the Israelites (not all Jews are Israelites!), and in the second he makes a covenant with every man who believes in Christ. The old is vanished. (Heb8:12) He is no respector of race anymore. He has stopped regarding with the Jews. (Heb.8)
The fig tree are Israelites who have faith in Christ and the grafted in are the gentiles in Christ.
In the first the law is written in stone,
in the second “the law is written in the heart”.
Do you have this covenant with Christ at all, when you deny the law?
Hear what Paul says:
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Come to mind, friend, and start obeying the law.
Don,
I received grace and forgiveness through faith, thats why I love Jesus, thats why I keep His commandments. He says if you love me you keep my commandments.
Do you love Him?
He also says, the one who teaches that the Law is done away, will be the least in heaven. Matt.5
Do you want to be the least in heaven?
Can you tell me if it is okay now to lie and steal for example?
Silvon,
You are mistaken about what commmands Jesus is talking about. He isn’t talking about the ten commandments. The commands that Jesus is talking about are the same ones that John mentions, namely to believe in the one whom God sent, Jesus Christ and to love one another, not thou shalt not commit adultery, thou shalt not covet, etc, etc. Jesus fulfilled the law and then it was nailed to the cross just as Paul stated. We do not follow the written code as the Jews did prior to Christ. We are led by the Spirit of God and his word is written on our hearts. We don’t follow a rule book of don’t do this and don’t do that,for That is the law and if you live by the law, then you are obligated to accomplishing the whole law and if you break it at any point, you are guilty. Jesus came and fulfilled the law on our behalf, because we were unable to keep it. Therefore, by having faith in him, we are fulfilling the law through Christ. When we sin and we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us, but we are not under the law. The word “Grace” means “unmerrited favor,” which means “You didn’t earn it, but you’ve got it.” It is a free gift from God. So, when anyone reverts back to performing tasks to earn or maitain salvation, grace is no longer grace. Paul goes into great detail on this matter in both Romans and Galatians and I suggest you read it, because no one will be justified by observing the law. So, when anyone observes a holiday, Sabbath, feast or performs good works with the attitude that these things are done to earn or maintain salvation, then Paul says that you are no longer under grace. The letter to the Galatians is about this very issue, read it. As for myself, I am saved by God’s unmerrited favor by my faith and by that alone. When I perform good works it is because of my love for God and my desire to glorify him and not to maintain or secure my salvation. His word is written on my heart and I am led by the Holy Spirit who dwells in me and so, I confess my sins daly, because I know that I sin against him in some way, either in thought or in deed and all sin is against him. As I continue in faith, my sins are covered. The bottom line is, if you do anything other than acknowledge Christ crucified for your salvation and try to earn it or maintain it by your own actions, then you have fallen from grace. It is either by grace or it is by works and there are no works that you can perform to meet God’s standards for righteousness. I suggest that you settle this issue before moving on to anything else, because as long you have that attitude, you are fallen from grace.
Don,
I am saved through faith in Christ. I dont try to earn my salvation through the law. Out of love I do it, and when I fall I can confess it. That grace is the difference between the old and new covenant.
In the old covenant there was no love, just the killing letter of the law, the curse of the law, death.
I try to obey the spirit of the law through love to my creator, not the letter of the law.
Like Jesus said, the sabbath is there for doing good.
He wouldnt have said it, if it was done away.
I already wrote to you, what actually was nailed to the cross – NOT THE LAW!
The law is indeed written in the heart, and it is the same law which is written down in the bible, just with the difference that we can understand through the Holy Spirit what Yahweh really intented to say with His law.
I agree Silvan,
Don wants us to believe the ten commandments are no longer valid – we no longer live by the law. He supplies all kinds of verses to prove this but so far all the bible study sites I’ve been to refute what he is trying to say, as with Col 3:16 for example.
We all agree we are saved by grace and not by works, but Don seems to think God’s law has been cancelled and unfortunately that will not get him thru the great tribulation without taking the mark of the beast.
Its a cryin’ shame I tell ya.
He fails to heed the Prophecy Code and so his self-taught interpretations are faulty. But he is not alone. In fact he is in the majority. But we are told that the true church will only be a small remnant – the vast majority of Christians will have the mark. That prophecy we can take literally.
So I know I’m in the minority here and no one believes what I’m saying, but believe me, it is the minority where I want to be.
Anyway, keep up the word.
James,
I am simply saying regarding the law, that Jesus fulfilled and therefore, we are no longer under the law as following a written code, but are in a faith covenant and not one by works, which is what the law is. The law was fulfilled on everyones behalf by Christ and now we are led by the Spirit of God. Regarding sin, because we belong to Christ, even though he paid the penalty, our disire is not to sin, because the Spirit of God resides in me and not because I am following the written code.
Hi Lyndsey,
Yes, the Jewish holidays are under The law, the old covenant. There is no harm in learnig about them, but there is a problem if you consider them as necessary for salvation along with anything else in the law. I suggest reading Galatians for a better understanding, for no one will be justified by the law, by only by grace through faith in Jesus Christ.
Don, everyone here knows that we are not saved by the law.
The law written in our hearts is the same law as in the scripture, only we know now what the law really means spiritually.
We getting understanding how to keep it.
That is in love to God and our neighbour.
On this hang all the prophets and the law, says the Lord.
Marianne,
The law completed throuh Christ. Furthermore, those were Jewish holiday’s associated with the law and not intended for the church. Regarding what you quoted “do this in remembrance of me” Is in regards to breaking bread and partaking of the cup, which represensts his body broken for us and his blood that was shed for us. The church is not under the first covenant and is not required to keep Jewish feasts that pertain to the law.
Hi Don,
I woke up this morning, said hello to God and asked Him what He wanted me to do today. To my dismay, I believe He said, “Talk to Don”. Now, I was expecting something entirely different like, “Ask the lady a couple of door down if she would like you to help her mow”…that kind of thing.
I can only think of a couple of things that I may have to say that would be of interest to you. Please let me begin by saying that I respect the info you have posted and believe that you have a great deal of truth to offer. However, there are two things you may want to consider.
1) The verse in Colossians 2:16 “Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.” This verse cuts both ways. No one is to judge you by not celebrating them but you also are not to judge those who do. You have stated the truth: it is by Jesus and his sacrifice alone, through which we are saved. Let that be enough and let the Holy Spirit do his job.
2) No one can be saved by observing the feasts and festivals but there is MUCH that can be learned from them. If you were more knowledgeable about them, you would understand that when Jesus said, “Do this in remembrance of me”, he was really speaking about specific parts of the Seder, or Passover celebration. The bread and wine have very little meaning apart from the context of the Seder. In context, it is rich, rich,rich!
To sum up my thoughts, I think God has asked me to encourage you to study the festivals. They are prophetic. Glean what you can from them. Really dig into them, read what other people have learned and test it against what you have already learned. I am understanding Revelation better because of my limited understanding of these things; they go hand in hand with what you have already posted. Maybe you will be able to fill in a few missing pieces. I know I would benefit greatly from hearing what you think.
Hi Malia,
Thank you for your post. If the Holy Spirit asked you to speak with me, it may have been for another reason other than what you think and that is what for what I have been proclaiming, the gospel, Christ crucified, buried and resurrected. I want to assure you that I do not speak about anything regarding God’s word that does not come from God’s word, for I am not trying win people over for the sake of pride, but I preach Christ and speak the word of God only.
God instituted seven feasts, which were apart of the law and were specific to by Israel, 1). Sabbath, 2). Passover and unleavened bread, 3). First Fruits, 4). Feast of Weeks, 5). Feast of Trumpets, 6). Day of Atonement and 7). Feast of Tabernacles.
When Christ arrived, he instituted a new covenant, which he intoduced to Abraham who was credited with righteousnesss because he believed God. It does not say that Abraham was credited with righteousness because he believed God and then went and fed the poor, and because he observed special days or feast, but simply because he had faith. God also said to Abraham that he would be the father of many nations, meaning that those who would display the same faith as he had would also be credited with righteousness, and because of that, he is our father in faith.
I believe that there has been a misunderstanding of what I have been saying and therefore please allow me to clairfy. First, let me be clear, these feasts were instituted for Israel as part of the law, that is, they were required to be observed as part of the law and if you did not, you would be excummunicated. When Christ came, he fulfilled the entire law completey, satifying God’s requirment for its fulfillment, where no other individual could accomplish that. So, by living a perfect life in the flesh without sin and fulfilling the requirements of the law, these were all done on mankinds behalf, because we could not accomplish it. That is why it is said that “The Law” was nailed to the cross and that Christ is the end of the law:
“Colossians 2:13-15
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.
Since Christ has now fulfilled what we were helpless to do, we are free from observing the law, because Christ already did it perfectly. And where it was impossible for us to be without sin, Christ lived a perfect sinless life on our behalf. There is therefore no boasting on our part for keeping a specific day, making blood sacrifices, observing certain feasts or performing and other works for the sake of receiving forgiveness and the promise of iternal life. We are completely free in Christ, because he accomplished everything the God required on our behalf. Yours and my part is to have the same faith that Abraham did.
Now, is there anything wrong with learning about and observing any of these feasts out of respect for God and Israel? Absolutely not! It is only when a person deems them necessary or any other part of the law for salvation and to gain eternal life that it becomes a problem. When a person has the attitude that I must observe this feast, or I must be circumsised or I must follow the written code, then you become separated from grace, because you are not relying on the finished work of Christ, but on observing and performing things gain favor with God and as God’s word states, no one will be justified by observing the law. Then salvation is no longer a free gift by the grace of God, through his Son, but by works.
If anyone wants to celebrate the feasts, then let them do so, but without considering them as a needed to be observed to gain the grace of God and to obtain salvation.
Furthermore, The breaking of bread and partaking of the cup represent two things that are the basis of the new covenant, the breaking of bread which symbolizes Christs body that was broken for us and his blood that was shed for us, this do in remembrance of him as often as you do it. The rest of the passover has nothing to do with the church as it commemorating Israel’s exodus out of Egypt, which the church was not envolved with. The Lamb that that was and is eaten on passover represents Christ who is our passover Lamb. An just as it was commanded by God that they were not to break any of the passover Lambs bones, neither were any of Jesus bones broken, for he was already dead when they came to break his bones. The passover is all about Jesus Christ and commemorates Israel’s exodus. For us, the church, by believing in Christ, we are passed over for destruction, because the blood of Christ is on the doorposts of our hearts.
I have been debating with these guys here because of this very reason. For example, James claims that, unless you observe the Sabbath on Saturday, you are deceived and have no salvation, which means that he is not resting in Christs fulfillment of the law, but on his own works. In other words, I must keep this Sabbath on Saturday to obtain forgiveness of sins and eteral life and I am saying no. This separates one from the free gift of grace through Jesus Christ and it is then no longer a free gift, but becomes something you are earning.
For me, Chist has accomplished everything. He has paid the penalty for my sins and fulfilled the written code (the law). Now, I want to glorify God with my life. I want to do good works, not to gain salvation or to maintain salvation, but to please God and to build up my treasures in heaven. If I try to do these good works for the purpose of maintaining my salvation, then I err and am no longer acting according to the gospel. If and when I sin, I go to the Father in the name of Jesus Christ and I confess my sins and he is sitting at the right hand of God and speaking my behalf and yours and everyone who hopes in the gospel, which is Christ crucified, buried and resurrected. I hope that this clears up any misunderstanding that there may been and I look forward to our fellowship.
Yours in Christ
Who says we won’t be enslaved or they won’t try to enslave us before the anti-christ comes on the scene? Lynsey made the statement that Americans won’t allow themselves to be forced to take the mark. I’m a Pre-trib Christian (rapture before the tribulation) so I’m not worrying about “THE MARK”. I’m not going to be here.
Here’s an example of them persuading you or programming you to accept RFIDs. I actually ran into a friend who is no longer a believer and saw nothing wrong with a one world government and mirco-chipping. We are being programmed to accept it without questioning it.
Hey Kittii,
I didn’t make the statement regarding “Americans won’t allow themselves to be forced to take the mark”…I think it was James…not sure. I used to be a pre-trib Christian but Marianne has convinced me that we won’t go anywhere until mid-trib. Only G-D knows, literally. We may already be in the beginning stages of the tribulation or the end stages of the pre-trib. Regarding Americans not allowing themselves to be forced to take the mark…look at the health law that Congress passed REQUIRING ALL Americans to have and maintain health insurance! We get fined if we don’t have it (I don’t have it by the way…and a bit concerned about being “forced” to have it). To not take the mark would require courage (divine courage I might add), for one would be breaking the law by not doing so. There will come a day when one will need to choose between G-ds’ Law or Man’s law! As simple as that.
Yeah, I said it and I’ll stick by it because I don’t believe it will ever happen. Like flying cars… where are they? They promised them 50 years ago. Looks like they will never happen either… 🙂
Well, the problem with that James it that, God never had any of his prophets prophecy about flying cars, but he did prophecy about a literal mark, right hand and forehead.
Here’s some more people who think this is cool. They don’t think about what they might be giving up. This is amazing to me.
WOW! That is incredible that we are already here with the technology.
To everyone.
Regarding the debate of law vs grace…..
There is the moral law, which is the 10 commandments.
There is the civil law, which is an application of the moral law, such as being fair in business, employment of servants, marriage issues.
These are reasonable and holy, and should continue. I did not see anywhere – where these were canceled.
Then there is the sacrificial system, established by the law. Since scripture indicates “there will be no more sacrifice for sins,” I believe it is this portion of the law that was nailed to the cross.
Why would we need the blood of bulls and goats to atone for our sins, when Jesus completed this “work” forever?
This is the “work” that is replaced by grace.
To everyone.
Regarding the debate of law vs grace…..
There is the moral law, which is the 10 commandments.
There is the civil law, which is an application of the moral law, such as being fair in business, employment of servants, marriage issues.
These are reasonable and holy, and should continue. I did not see anywhere – where these were canceled.
Then there is the animal sacrificial system, established by the law. Since scripture indicates “there will be no more sacrifice for sins,” I believe it is this portion of the law that was nailed to the cross.
Why would we need the blood of bulls and goats to atone for our sins, when Jesus completed this “work” forever?
This is the “work” that is replaced by grace.
Marianne,
Jesus either fulfulled the whole or none of it, but not just part of it. The fact is that, the word of God says that he fulfilled every bit of the law.
Don,
Quote:
“The commands that Jesus is talking about are the same ones that John mentions, namely to believe in the one whom God sent, Jesus Christ and to love one another, not thou shalt not commit adultery, thou shalt not covet, etc, etc”
Do we both agree that the supreme commandment to love God includes the first for commandments, and loving ones neighbour includes the last six?
Is that correct, that when I love my neighbour I wont commit steal anything nor commit adultery with his wife?
You are saying the law is written in your heart.
What law is written in your heart?
The devils laws or Gods “just, good and holy” laws (Quoting Paul)?
When I read the Book of Revelation and the discription of the tribulation I don’t think we are in it. The conditions sound very grim. We live so comfortably here. Most Americans have no clue what Christians in other countries go through where there’s no freedom of religion. A lot of Christians believe that Ezechiel 38 will happen before it and set the stage for it to begin. That’s why they are pushing for a war with Iran, which I don’t support. That’s why they blame a lot of Christians for the ills in the Middleast. I personally believe this country will be destroyed before the anti-chirst will come on the scene. Maybe something like John Moors talks about in his lecture on “What the Government isn’t tell you about Global Warming” or even something nuclear. I’m just “not” concerned with “The Mark of the Beast”. I’m concerned at how people are accepting all of these invasions into our privacy. That’s going to set us up to be destroyed and I want to reach them before that happens. I think that is where my focus is and why I put anything on this blog. It’s a witnessing tool, period. I’m not concerned necessarily for myself. God allowed my situation to happen so I would refocus on what is important. The 9/11 controversy is not going away. Do a search on Norman Finklestein and Noam Chomsky. I think the Jews in this country are going to have to make a choice between the United States or Israel. I hope they make the right choice.
Has Israel Started The Steps To World War III With Her Bloody Intercept of a Flotilla of Ships Heading To Gaza?
As I said, the R.of Israel is not Yahweh’s Israel.
Many people will believe this coming war is Armageddon and willingly accept the false Christ, when he raises out of the ashes like a phoenix.
Even many christians will fall away, believing that Ez.38 is unfolding when it is not.
silvan
The flotilla was a ship bringing troublemakers to Gaza. Any “aid” is allowed off the boat, but not the troublemakers. I have sent you an email about it.
You dont attack an unarmed ship in INTERNATIONAL waters..
simple as that..
they could have halted them in their waters by blockading them for example..
The IDF had absolutely no right to kill these people, even if they resisted the entering with knifes..it was the defenders right to do so against an heavy weaponized army..
They could have blocked the ship with out loss of life and now they may of started a very big war because of it.
Anyways thats the Illuminati plan to demonize and outlaw the monotheistic religions and start WW3 through “religion”, so that they can usher into their New World Order with the pantheistic New Age religion
silvan
they were armed. they went there because they wanted to get attacked and they started the fight. You do not seem to understand that ALL help” coming into GAZA is for anti-Israel purpose. Muslims are demons. They are treacherous, and have proven to be sneaky, treacherous, false accusers, and violent, even when they pretend to be peaceful…….everything they do is pretend, to capture sympathy so they can recruit gullible people to their cause, and destroy Israel…..
Can you give me please the source which proves that they were
(1) armed
(2) were terrorists
Thank you 🙂
Anyway that was in international waters and they had their every right to defend themselves when being entered.
I am sorry, but you are twisting this story badly.
Assumptions and belittling braking international conventions.
I guess you would scream murder if this would happen to an Israeli flotilla.
Gaza NEEDS aid because of the oppression of Israel.
You did not read what I sent you. The IDF did not initiate an attack. The Muslims did.
THe boat had ammunition on it. Research it.
The IDF approached the boat properly and in the right way. The boat was warned for 5 days prior.
Israel does not oppress Gaza. Gaza oppresses and attacks Israel, without provocation. Israel by the way, has provided medical and financial support for Gaza many times.
Here is the Bloomberg report on the incident.
May 31 (Bloomberg) — Israeli commandos killed nine pro- Palestinian activists after encountering resistance while intercepting a flotilla of ships carrying humanitarian aid supplies to the Gaza Strip, the Israeli army said.
Several of the dead were from Turkey, which said relations with Israel may suffer irreparable harm. French President Nicolas Sarkozy said Israel had used “disproportionate” force. German Chancellor Angela Merkel, speaking today to reporters in Berlin, said she had spoken by phone with Netanyahu and Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan and called for “a comprehensive investigation on what happened.”
The six ships in the “Freedom Flotilla” came from Sweden, Greece and Turkey on a mission aimed at breaking Israel’s blockade of Gaza that organizers pledged would be non-violent. Israel had warned it wouldn’t let the ships reach Gaza and called the mission a propaganda trick aimed at making it look bad.
Israel said its soldiers were attacked with knives and clubs after boarding a vessel and seven soldiers were wounded, including by gunfire after activists aboard the ship managed to grab Israeli firearms. The clash was in international waters, said the Free Gaza Movement, which organized the flotilla.
I find it interesting that Turkey is now involved since they will probably be the leader of the Gog war of Ezekiel 38-39. We should keep an eye on this situation as it may be the beginning of fulfillment of prophecy.
@the Canundrum group:
Eze 38:11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,
Do you see that- Ez.38 is not about the Republic of Israel, no way.
Also, Ez.38/39 tells that when Gog attacks that the LORD will intervene immediately and let rain fire from heaven.
Jesus spoke of this next war in Matt.24, and He said, the “end is not yet”..
True, because is has nothing happened from Revelation, the AC is not reigning the world, the vials and bowls did not happen, and so many other things..
I believe Satan will fake the intervention of Yahweh so that you believe that Ez.38 has been fulfilled and that Jesus is here.
But He says many false Christs will come, and with them also decoys for the christians in believeing the antichrist has already been there. Dont be deceived.
THE END IS NOT YET.
This is not Armageddon, it just shall look so!!
Ezekiel is most definitely about ISrael, and it says so….the invasion, which is not armageddon, but might look like it ( agreeing with you here), occurs across the mountains of Israel, no where else…..christians live all over the world, and have no one location where they can all be invaded at the same time…so no matter WHEN it happens, it will still occur on Israeli soil….
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Do you see that? THIS is Ez.38.
-Gog attacks the saints living in perfect peace, rest and safety in the holy land without borders and gates
-Gog will attack after 1000 years
-The LORD will let rain frie from heaven
So are you willing to give up yourself for the Truth, for Jesus, and for loving the truth? No matter how it hurts you, and how much work is to be redone regarding prophecy?
When Jesus returns he will “beat the swords into plowshares and the spears into pruning hooks and the nations shall know war no more.”
So how could the war of Gog happen after Christ has returned? This war is over the minds of the people of the earth and their loyalty to either God or Satan. It will be his last change to get humans to worship him and it will separate the wheat from the chaff, so to speak. Those who remain loyal will enter the new Jerusalem. The rest, the wicked, will be destroyed.
The timing of the war of Gog and the identity of Gog and Magog are also hotly debated. I’m of the belief that the war will precede the tribulation and perhaps be the vehicle that brings the false prophet to power.
I guess only Ezekiel knows for sure, and He’s not talking.
But we will all know pretty soon one way or the other.
James didnt you read Rev.20:7-9 ??
Satan will be loosed after 1000 years and Gog will attack the Saints, CHRISTIANS!!
Gog is satan, and is around to attack twice. I am starting to believe there are 2 gog wars….
The Jewish view of 2 Gog wars
Common Jewish interpretation of Ezekiel 38 as one war, and Ezekiel 39 as a second war is intriguing.
1. Gog enters with Persia, Ethiopia, Libya, Gomer, and is destroyed in or near the mountains.
2. There is a second attack, later, after being turned back / destroyed, and only a sixth part remains of the original attacking force. Gog is still Gog, and so crosses the mountains a second time.
This time Gog becomes bird food, and Magog is burned up by God, so there is no place to return to. The remaining invaders die on the mountains of Israel, just like the first time.
Marianne, according to theRevelation the Gog war is just ONCE.. and Gog will attack the Saints living in the holy Land.
The poeple in Christ, CHRISTIANS, will live there!!
Dont make up something what isnt in the bible, just to meet your preconceived ideas.
It is easy, the Jews are NOT ISRAEL.
I already have shown you the scripture which clearly says that God’s Israel is now the body of Christ.
It seems there is no definite identification of “Gog” or “Magog” in the bobble. Many people believe Magog is Russia, others Turkey. I think it is wherever Gog comes from. Gog, I believe, represents the leader of a group of people or nations who are against God or his people. Its like claiming the Pope will be the Antichrist. Martin Luther said it 500 years ago, but he wasn’t referring to just the current pope, it was the office he was referring to. So Gog may be the title of the invaders’ leader. If it will be a war between Israel and a group (many) Muslim countries, it might be a Caliph – the supreme Muslim leader whose office was eliminated in the 1930’s but may be reinstated in the near future. His old headquarters was located in Istanbul so that would confirm the Turkey connection.
A second millennial war may indeed happen and also be referred to as Gog. Since we don’t know the meaning of the word, we can’t determine the difference between “Benedict 16th” and “the Pope.”
Like many prophecies, depending on your interpretations and definitions, the predictions can be completely different.
Just look at how big this blog is on the mark of the beast – no one can agree on a literal or symbolic interpretation, and depending which you use, You get totally different outcomes.
I think we should let our readers hear our viewpoints and decide for themselves what they believe. I don’t think we are going to convince any of us to change our minds on the subject.
Why dont we talk about the scripture I have cited:
Eze 38:11 And thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates,
The Republic of Israel does not fit this prophecy!!
But all saved people in Christ, the Saints.
We will live in the holy land in the Millenium without borders and in safety.
Currently NO ONE is at rest.
Not the Jews, not we.
Sigh. I really have a hard time with you.
The Israel in Ezekiel is a physical location that get invaded. It is the Israel territory you see today. Modern towns do not have walls around them, or gates to get in, as opposed to ancient times. This is true world wide.
The bible predicts wars as well as rumors of wars. There are still wars to come – both before and after the Millenium.
The last century already demonstrated this pattern.
Gog has been busy in the past (Ottoman empire), will be busy now (look at its politics and religious movements), and will continue to be busy (other conflicts right now and in near future) until after the millennium (Revelation – last gog war), when it is finally defeated.
Are the Jews at rest and in safety?
Why is it so hard to understand that only the believer in Christ is seen by Yahweh as His Israel?
“Rest and in safety” is a matter of perception.
Appearances are deceiving.
The saints will think they are at peace also in the millennium, until gog attacks them.
Isnt this private interpretation?
Is Yahweh only speaking about relative safety?
What is with the Israelis near the Gaza border at who are fired rockets?
Does he only mean the residents in TelAviv, or are these also in possible danger of a iranian rocket?
Are the Jews resting or are they working, defending, entering boats etc..?
marianne, carefully here, this is of utmost importance.. this point is your last resort before you have to admit that Ez.38 is not about the Republic of Israel.
lets pray about this
Like I said before…the bible says the mountains of Israel…which means the LAND of Israel…..
the gog war will not take place in Germany or africa or the USA…….
I am talking about the land, not the government.
Me too, I am talking about Gog invading the holy land (moiuntains of Israel) when all the people who belong to Christ live there in the Millenium, in rest and safety.
Now, back to this hot points,
REST and SAFETY.
No more evading Marianne.
what about the 7 year peace treaty by the Antichrist that gets broken at midpoint?
That is before the millenium…
Hi Marianne,
I wonder what God means when He says that people of Israel have been defiling His Holy name among the nations – Jews have never been defiling name of YHWH – in fact they treated it with much awe and honour – I think God means His other name – YESHUA!
God bless!
Hi Gavriel, Israelites (not only Jews) have in the old covenant/testament over and over again defiled the name of YHWH, that is why he made a new covenant through Christ, for the Jews as also for the “Greeks”. The old covenant is vanished (Heb.8:13)
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I WILL PUT MY LAWS INTO THEIR MIND (=HOLY SPIRIT WORKINK IN US), and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Heb 8:12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
“And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week:. . .” (Daniel 9: 27, KJV)
According to the Blue Letter Bible concordance, “confirm”
H1396 גּבר gâbar
here means “to make strong, strengthen.” Notice, it does NOT mean “begin.”
While “covenant” here can mean “treaty,” it can also mean “pledge” or “alliance.”
“Many” means many and not ONE nation. I think it means with many people of the world.
So this verse can also read “He will pledge a strong alliance with many man”.
You know, this remembers me of Maitreya, they have a “day of declaration” planned when the man of sin will reveal himself to the world as some kind of “world teacher” on TV and through some kind of spiritual means.
Realize this as well, those who are sold on this idea that people will know the anti-christ when he signs a peace treaty with one nation…Israel…will say to themselves, “nope, this guy speaking to the entire world at once isn’t the man of sin. First he has to sign a “peace treaty” with Israel.” Deception, deception, deception. How do magicians work? They distract your eyes away from where the “magic” is really taking place…
Marianne, please throw your doubts in these uncertainty completely on the LORD.. He will not let you down, and give you the knowledge to strenghten the truth in you!
well, the Oslo accord was signed in 1993. All someone has to do is “affirm” the treaty. That involved several nations.
Hi guys,
I thought that I might interject here regarding the “He making a covenant with many.” The many may be in reference to a peace treaty though NATO, as they have been trying forever to accomplish this. But regardless of who the “Many” are, it is obvious that the covenant is in regards to Israel because of the fact that, when he breaks that covenant, he causes the daily sacrifce to cease and sets up the abomination (image) in the temple. The animal sacrifices are what Israel will begin to do again once this beast enables them to rebuild their temple and the fact that he sets up his abomination in the “Holy Place” within the temple would also point to this covenant being with Israel. Therefore, no matter who the “Many” are, the causing of the daily sacrifice to cease and the abmination set up in the temple are the results of the breaking of that covenant which have to do with Israel.
So the Nuclear treaty with “many” doesn’t qualify?
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-04-13-nuke-summit_N.htm
The one who establishes the covenant is that beat, that antichrist, the man of lawlessness, who is to come. The covenant has to do with Israel and her abilty to perform sacrifices in her rebuilt temple, otherwise, why would it be mentioned that when he breaks his covenant, he causes the the daily sacrifice to cease and the setting up of his image in the Holy Place? The Holy place is the room right outside of the Holy of Holies where the Ark of the Covenant was and where the high priest once a year would enter to make atonement for the people as well as for himself. During the middle of that last seven years (seventieth seven), the beast will set up an image of himself in the Holy Place within the temple and this act will cause the desolation of Jerusalem. See Dan.9:24-27; Mt.24:15; Rev.13:14-15
There is a lot of buzz about the “abomination of desolation and the ending of the “daily sacrifices.” In the King James bible, the word “sacrifices” was added by the catholic interpreters. The true phrase is simply the “daily.”
I have actually looked into this and it is too complex to get into here but my main point would be that the Jews have not had any animal sacrifices for thousands of years and will certainly not start again in the near future. They would have every animal rights organization on the planet on their case, first of all, and there are no Jewish leaders who are planning to rebuild the temple that are even hinting at starting it again, especially on a daily basis. Maybe once a year at Passover, – maybe. But not likely.
So I believe that people have been totally off base in their interpretation and that whatever the verse means, most of them will miss it completely. As you know I think the same will happen with the mark of the beast. If not, why would the bible say that the whole world will follow the beast? Lots of people are going to be waiting for things to happen that simply never will.
Something to think about maybe.
James,
First of all, the word of God is of no private interpretation. Men wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. If we can’t trust in his word, then we have nothing to trust in. Don’t you think that God could make sure that his word was intact? The information that we have comes from the original manuscripts and ancient copies, as well as the Dead Sea scrolls. Catholics can’t change that information. Not only that, but the Abomination of desolation is also mentioned in the book of Daniel. It wsa there before the Catholics came along. The word of God, is just that, his word. When you start tearing the bible apart and not accepting it as authenic, then there is nothing to hope in, because we wouldn’t be able to know the truth about anything. The abomination, which is that image described in the book of revelation will be set up in the temple and will cause the desolation of Jerusalem just as God’s word proclaims. Daniel prophecied of it, Jesus echoed it in Mt.24:15 and Revelation 13 gives a more detailed description of it.
Just as we can read of the prophecies made about Christ in the Old Testament and read about him fulfilling them in the new, so also will these prophecies come true, because it is the word of God.
Don,
I agree I was just reading a booklet by Gerald Flurry on the 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse and here is a bit of his introduction:
“Bible interprets the BiBle The book of Revelation has many symbols with many different interpretations. However, we must remember that the Bible interprets itself. Most Bible scholars fail to realize this fact, and that is why we see so many bizarre interpretations of the book of Revelation.
Only Christ can unlock the seven seals. “And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof” (Revelation 5:5). These seven seals are unlocked in Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21. “Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy [Spirit]” (2 Peter 1:20-21). No man can interpret the Bible. That is the first lesson we need to learn.”
In case you were wondering, Mr. Flurry also applies biblical interpretation to the rest of the Book of Revelation including mark of the beast.
Your decision to “take everything literally unless I can’t make any sense of it” is simply flawed and un-biblical.
The bible has provided us with its own dictionary so that only those who truly understand the bible will be able to unlock it’s secrets. It takes more than simply reading the verses over and over again. Sometimes it takes the knowledge of bible scholars like Mr. Flurry to help us decipher the truth.
Not to say we shouldn’t study all sides of the arguments and then decide for ourselves. I have looked into the literal argument, given it my fair consideration, and rejected it. Sorry Don. I know you are wrong and I will always keep trying to spread the truth.
But I’m sure there is plenty we can agree on and we will find it eventually.
Hi James,
First all, Mr. Flurry is not my basis for the God’s truth, but God’s word is, as his word is where I get all of my information from and not from other so-called scholars. Second, I did not say the following:
“take everything literally unless I can’t make any sense of it”
What I did say was:
“If the literal sense makes good sense, then don’t seek any other sense.”
Whey you or anyone else takes what is written in the book of revelation that was meant by God to be interpreted as literal and you symbolize it, then the meaning is lost.
For example, when you read that the false prophet forces the inhabitants of the earth to receive a mark in his right hand or forehead, there is no reason found in the context to apply a symbolic meaning to the mark, right hand or forehead. On the other hand, when I read about a woman who is clothed with the sun, with moon under her feet and wearing a crown of twelve stars, that immediately screams out symbolism and it is easy to identify. You simply symbolize where there is no reason to do so.
Revelation gives us the symbolism and then tells us what that symbolism is.
Seven heads represent. seven hills and seven kings
Ten Horns represent ten kings that rule concurrently with the beast.
Sun = Jacob
Moon = Wives
Stars = Twelve tibes
Gen.37:9-10 give us the answer to the sun, moon and stars.
A third of the earth was burnt up = A third of the earth will be burnt up.
A huge mountain all ablaze being thrown into the sea which destroys a third of the ships and a third of the creatures = a third of the ships destroyed and a third of the creatures die.
You see how easy that was? God wrote this prophecy so that we could understand it. True, it takes some study of revelation and other books and verses of the bible to understand revelation, but not everything is symbolic. In fact, after going through revelation and listing the literal against the symbolic, the literal outweighs the symbolic greatly.
As far as Mr. Flurry goes, he is just another person studying this book of prophecy, same as me. My authority is God’s word, not somebody elses interpretation. I know for a fact that, the mark is a literal mark, the right hand is speaking of the literal right hand as well as the literal forehead. As I have said before, the burden of proof is on you, because the world is already manufacturing subdermal chips and one of its uses is for making purchases. like the debit card. So, we have a literal fulfillment in the making. The only things that ae missing is the official application of the mark technology and the one to whom the mark belongs to, the beast.
But, as I said before, the issue regarding the mark is the least of your concern, for you claim that you must observe the Sabbath specifically on Saturday or else one is deceived and has no salvation, and by saying this, you are trusting in your own works and not on the completed work of Christ on the Cross.
What you are believing is the equivalent of those who will say:
“Lord, Lord, did we not prophecy in your name and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?” Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you eveildoers!”
The reason that Jesus will say this to them is because their reason for being able to enter into the kingdom of God is, didn’t we do this, and didn’t we do this, and didn’t we do this?
The only answer that anyone should have to give for being able to enter into eternal life is that, Lord you accomplished it all for me. He lived a perfect life on my behalf where I was unable to. He fulfilled the requirements of the whold law perfectly where I was unable to. And for my faith alone, I am credited with his righteousness, just as father Abraham was.
So, let me draw the comparison:
“Lord, Lord, didn’t I keep the Sabbath on Saturday?”
What will Jesus response be to that?
I garrantee you, it won’t be “Well done good and faithfull servant.”
As soon as anyone depends on something other than what Christ completed in his flesh, then salvation is no longer by grace as a free gift, because you are dependant upon your own works. That is why God’s word says, that we are saved by grace through faith and NOT BY WORKS, LEST ANY MAN SHOULD BOAST.
We have nothing to boast about, because he did it all and that is what we as believers should be resting in, his finished work on the cross, not on our works.
So, you are free to continue with your observance of the Sabbath day and your symbolism and it will all be revealed in the end.
I was listening to the Jesus movement music and testimonies I posted on https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/why-did-the-jesus-movement-die/#comment-23466 and I ran across Larry Norman’s song he wrote entitled: Six Sixty Six. In one of the You Tubes with this sone he was criticizing Christians who made money off of fear mongering during the Y2K scare. i wanted to post here the best version of that song, so the interview is not inclued. I don’t know about you, but I was prepared for the crash. Guess what it didn’t happen. But a lot of people believe it was getting the computers all lined up for the future. Anyway, I’m always posting songs, so here’s one for this subject. He had unusual lyrics for that time and made you think. Jesus is coming. Let’s be ready.
Hey guys, why not take a break and go over and listen to some awesome testimonies on https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/why-did-the-jesus-movement-die/#comment-23466 I thought I read somewhere Don was a veteran. Raul Reese was Marine during the Vietnam War. I posted his testimony. I shared it with my husband.It was really good. It might encourage you and you might enjoy the music. It’s not important whether you were a part of that era, it’s all about Jesus.
I said it on that web page https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/why-did-the-jesus-movement-die/#comment-23466 and I’ll say it here; I posted a song for Abigail that Larry Norman wrote. It’s entitled UFO since she likes that subject and is always posting UFO videos. You have to go to the web page to hear it.
Are we the Last generation? As Larry Norman sang?
My vote would be a definite yes, based on signs in the world and the technology that has been developed for subdermal chip use relating to the mark of the beast. As I said in other posts, people are already using subdermal chips for the purpose of making purchases via computer transactions, that is, credit and debit (buying and selling). Therefore, if we can see that this technology is already being used and it is related to the time of the beast, then how close are we?
The last generation began when “the fig tree blossomed” when Israel became a new nation in 1948. Jesus told his disciples that those of that generation who are alive when that happened would be around for his return. Not everyone of course, but with an overage human life span of around 80 years perhaps, we won’t have to wait too much longer for the second coming.
Dozens of prophecies have been fulfilled since then and more happen every few weeks it seems. So yes, we are definitely in the last generation, …if you believe in prophecy.
Regarding Gog and Magog, I don,t know exatly who they are today, exept that they are described as being in the north. That would also stand true with what God’s word says regarding putting hooks in his jaws and dragging them down from the far north (Ezk 38:6). But as far as their beginnings go, these are the sons of Japheth, one of Noah’s sons:
Sons of Japheth – Gomer, Magog, Tubal, Meshech
Son of Gomer, Togarmah
Sons of Ham – Cush, Put
The names listed above are the names listed of whom God drags down to attack Israel, and who are killed on the mountains of Israel, the descendants of Noah’s sons.
So, these are descendants of Noah’s son, Japheth.
I just got this email from Paul McGuire and I think it applies:
EVE OF DESTRUCTION?
By Paul McGuire
I got an E Mail the other day from a partner in Australia who wanted to know if I was related to Barry McGuire, who had the hit song, “Eve of Destruction,” a couple of decades ago. I replied that I was not related to Barry McGuire, but my wife and I knew him because I invited him to sing at a meeting I held and we had dinner together.
The reality is that we are on the “Eve of Destruction.” We have a potential nuclear conflict in North Korea, a regional nuclear war ready to go off between Israel and Iran, a manufactured global economic crisis designed to usher in global government, a series of natural and man-made disasters like the BP oil-environmental crisis, terrorism and a coming microchip.
Goldman Sachs, one of the international banking firms that controls the Federal Reserve and is committed to global government, mysteriously sold 4,680,822 shares of BP in the first quarter of 2010 before the BP crisis
As the conflict between Israel and Iran keeps heating up, Russia continues to sell missiles and military technology to Iran. You would not read or see that in the corporate controlled-Big Brother media in the U.S. Nor would you learn that Iran is continuing to send its paramilitary Qods forces in Venezuela and other South American countries. These are part of the Iranian shock troops sent around the world to advance the interests in Iran. They are aligned with terrorists in Iraq, Afghanistan, Israel and North Africa.
Everything that is happening has prophetic overtones. Israel and Iran could lead to the War of Gog and Magog in Ezekiel 38 and the one world currency and one world government is predicted by John in Revelation 13. The other Signs of the Times” such as earthquakes which is translated from the Greek word “seismos,” which means earthquakes, tsunamis and volcanic eruptions are increasing before the Tribulation period where they will intensify. Jesus Christ talked about the “Signs of the Times” leading up to the Tribulation and in the Tribulation.
The international bankers operate through organizations like the Bilderberg Group, which I go into detail about in my new book “Are You Ready for the Microchip?” These international bankers created the Great Depression, are the same outfit who are now creating the global financial crisis. The Greek financial crisis is all about tightening up the European Union and controlling Greece.
In order to contain the credit crisis in Greece, various EU member-states, the U.S. and the IMF are creating a $145B bailout of Greece. The IMF, which is acting like the head of the new global economic system, is putting together the loan package. This is the same game plan that Rothschild banking family used when they created the Central Banks across Europe along with the Federal Reserve (Central Bank) in America. The plan is to make all nations in debt to the bankers. This way the international bankers can loan money which they print from nothing to the various nations at high interest rates. The greater the debt, the greater their profit.
The Bible says very clearly that, “the borrower is the slave to the lender.” Therefore the United States and other nations in the world are owned and controlled, not by “we the people” or our elected representatives, but by a secret elite. For example, the Federal Reserve which is privately owned by international bankers has nothing to do with the Federal Government. In fact, the Federal Government and “we the people are not allowed to know the membership of the Federal Reserve or anything about its financial dealings. How do they get away with it? They own Washington and they own the media.
We are urging everyone to begin fasting, praying, sharing the Gospel and legally stand up for righteousness!
One of our primary mission besides teaching the Word of God and teaching prophecy as a means of evangelism, is to warn the Body of Christ about what is to come. The sad reality is that much of the church in America is in the exact place spiritually as the Evangelical Church was in Nazi, Germany. The Lord has placed on my heart is to act like a Watchman on the Wall and educate the people of God so that they can prepare.
People who need to see the “light.” We want to encourage you to do that so that even with pre-orders of “Are You Ready for the Microchip Implant?” As such, if you buy multiple copies to give to friends you will receive a discount. Visit paulmcguire.com for more information.
This was a great Vietnam anti-war song. I served during the Vietnam era and I knew it well. Of course its dire predictions have not yet come true, but they apply now even more than they did then. A nuclear WW3 is inevitable according to prophecy. So most knowledgeable Christians are already expecting it, so these warnings should not shock us in the least.
They simply confirm the prophecy and remind us that the glorious return of the Lord is soon to come. So bring on the war, let’s get it over with so we can live forever in peace with Jesus.
Amen.
Hey Don,
It seems to me you still don’t get the whole purpose of the Book of Revelation. It is all about the cleansing of the modern Christian churches of pagan (Babylonian) practices that have infiltrated the churches with the help of Satan, before Christ returns to marry his bride. The clues are everywhere in Revelation. You need to find out if your church or beliefs have these influences and get rid of them. He will simply not allow them in his millennial church. So why do you continually try to teach people that they are just fine?
If we take you literally then we must assume as long as we are saved by the blood of Christ we can lie, cheat, steal and even murder and Jesus will be cool with it because he died to free us from those laws. This way of thought is a lie. But I guess, under your ideology, it’s OK to lie.
james
I think what Don is saying is that we should not put all our eggs in one basket.
There are 10 commandments, and we should obey them all. If we don’t, then we are accountable for the sins we commit, and do not repent of.
I can see that certain passages are obviously literal, and certain passages are obviously symbolic.
It may be that there is both a literal and symbolic interpretation for every passage. We would then have to reflect on each verse more deeply to get the whole message.
Don is just saying we are not saved by works, but by faith.
Once that is understood, we are then to obey God’s commandments out of love and devotion, not because it is the “law.”
This is because it is said, “if you love me, keep my commandments.”
Yes Marianne, I understand exactly what Don is saying. I’ve heard the argument and believed it for many years until I began to study deeper and get other perspectives.
It seems like a small point – we should do the commandments because we love God, and if we occasionally break one he will forgive us, but this blog is about the mark of the beast. It os OK now to break the 4th commandment, especially if we don’t realize it but if we all live until the tribulation it will be a matter of life and death. So Don and I will have to agree to disagree, to me he is a lost soul. But there may be others who will listen and study harder and find the truth as I did so I will keep trying to spread the word in the hopes that maybe even one person will benefit.
And besides, it can’t hurt to keep the commandments, right?
Bless…
Morning James and all,
Now, you know James that what you said is rediculous and not true, that I have not taught that it is ok to lie, cheat, steal, murder or any of the other things that you mentioned. Why don’t you understand that Jesus took care of our sins and we by following after him will seek after righteousness, not wanting to sin. Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound, God forbid! I have never said that it was ok to use the grace of God to commit sin. But rather, by following after Christ and being led by the Spirit, we will seek to glorify God, because the Spirit of God is in us. And as James said, but when we do sin and we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to foregive us our sins. No one who is truely in Christ will continue in wilfull sin, not because he shouldn’t, but because the seed of God is in us and we cannot live comfortably in in the flesh, as it will grieve us. We all struggle with this and we are contually being purified as we continue in faith, all of us being works in progress. So let me be clear, I do not teach that by resting in the complete word of Christ that we should us that grace to continue fulfilling the evil desires of the sinful nature, but as we continue to seek God and all his righteousness, we will naturally seek to glorify him, to please him. Jesus has fulfilled the whole law on our behalf and has lived a perfect, sinless life on our behalf, our part is faith in Christ, the one who freed us from the curse of the law and removed our sins and so we strive to be like him and the result is, we will not want to lie, cheat, steal or murder or anything else. Forget about the issues in regards to the resurrection and catching away and concentrate on what I have been saying, because this is a problem. My hope is that God would open your eyes in regards to this issue about the need to keep the Sabbath on Saturday as needfull for salvation, instead of trusting in Christs fulfillment of the law and our being credited with his perfect life. Though we are sinners, God the Father sees us through Christ as completed and perfect, because Christ is perfect. The righteousness that we are credited with is Christs righteousness. The perfect life of Chirst is imputed to us even though we are not perfect, but we are works in progress. Because of the Grace of God through Jesus do I say, “now I am free to commit the sins I want because Christ took care of them?” In no way, in fact, I seek to please him more, to make sure that I don’t speak a lie, or cheat, or murder or anything else that is evil. I seek to be more like my Lord and that is the affect that his love should have on everyone who is in Christ. We who are in Christ have two natures, the old sinful nature and the new man in Christ. The flesh wars against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh, because they are contrary to each other. Those who are not in Christ, do not have this conflict, for they do not have the new man in Christ within them, only the original sinful nature. Because Christ dwells in us we desire to please God, because Christ is living though us. We keep the commandments and laws of God not by the written code of the law, but because Christ dwells in us and our desires are to please God.When we fail at anyone of them, then we have one who is sitting at the right hand of God as our High Priest to make intercession on our behalf and we are forgiven because we have faith in the one who was and is without sin, Jesus Christ. I don’t think that I can make it any clearer than that.
AMEN!
Don, brother, let me quote you:
“I seek to please him more, to make sure that I don’t speak a lie, or cheat, or murder or anything else that is evil”
You dont want to speak a lie – very good!
The 9th commandment.
You dont want to cheat – perfect!
It is the 8th and 7th commandment.
You dont want to murder – sure!
It is the 6th commandment.
I am sure you want to honor your parents.
5th c.
You are trying to lay down the fleshly desires.
10th commandment.
I am sure you dont want to misuse and defile the Name of the Lord.
3rd commandment.
I am also sure you are making no idols and have no other God then Yahweh and Yah’shua.
1st and 2nd commandment…
Can someone tell me: Did I miss something?
Did I miss a paragraph from the “good and holy Law” (Paul).
Not one jot or tittle shall pass from it…
WHO SAID THAT?
See, Don, I agree with you almost perfectly. Almost.
Love is the fulfillment of the Law.
When a new brother in Christ wants to know what sin is he will look into the law just to be sure if he REALLY loves God.
Everyone of the 10 commandments has an underlying spiritual meaning, the love, which couldnt be in every detail be written down, or else we would have millions of pages.
Because Israel didnt get the basics right – LOVE, they did not understand how to fulfill the Law.
Instead, they made a whole fuss, made the law heavy, but forgot to love and rejoice in the Word of God.
Jesus came to us now and explained the spiritual meaning of the Law, the spirit of Love as a basis.
He explained how the sabbath law is to be understood:
“..it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days” Matt12:12
Don, imagine the Lord Jesus is saying to you : “It is lawful to do well on the sabbath days”
What would you do?
Would you tell Him: “Oh Lord, you dont need to explain to me that. I dont keep your Holy Sabbath!”
Would you do that? Or are you doing it already???
You will not find a nation or government on earth without laws. That would inevitably result in total anarchy.
There must be laws and there must be consequences for breaking them. We know that and God knows it too.
Remember, God started with anarchy and after his people proved they could not properly rule themselves (remember the flood?) he instituted his laws and ten of them he wrote in stone and one of those he began with the word “Remember.”
As good a teacher and example Jesus was, do you really think God’s plan was to return to anarchy? Could he be that foolish?
Jesus said that before he returned the world would return to the “days of Noah.” Those were lawless times and we have returned to them.
God is going to return but before he does he will destroy “Babylon” from his church. This includes all pagan practices and breaches of his laws, which are still in effect regardless of how many verses Don can pull out of context to try to prove his point. This is theme of the Book of Revelation. You have missed it’s meaning and you have missed the mark. Literally!
To anyone reading this and wishing to learn more on the mark of the beast I hope you will study the many sides of this issue before making a decision. I made the mistake of listening to the first TV minister I used to listen to and I was convinced that Don’s literal theory was correct. But I had a bunch of gnawing questions – things that just didn’t make sense to my logical mind, so I researched it for about ten years and eventually had to come to a new conclusion, as painful as it was. I was even forced to leave the church I grew up in, so it was not just done on a whim.
So to all those I wish you good luck and may God bless.
Oh I guess this thread is the biggest on the internet LOL
and it seems we are not anywhere near the end…
“A council of rabbis in Israel says their nation’s conflict with Turkey over a flotilla of “aid” ships headed for the blockaded Gaza Strip controlled by the terrorist Hamas organization just may be the beginning of the “Gog and Magog process where the world is against us, but which ends with the third and final redemption.” ” http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=162069
Friends, brethren, listen please!
This “third redemption” including the builduing of the thrid temple will be given by WHOM ??????
Hi Silan, James and all,
Please read for yourself:
Romans 10:4
Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.
Galatians 2:15-16
We who are Jews by birth and not ‘Gentile sinners’ know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.
(No one will be justified by observing the law.)
Ephesians 2:14-15
For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations.
(The law and with its commandments and regulations abolished)
Colossians 2:13-15
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.
(He CANCELLED the written code that stood opposed to us and nailed it to the cross, because he fulfilled it requirements and no longer needs to be observed by us.)
Hebrews 7:18-19
The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.
“The former regulation (the law) was set aside, because it was weak and useless and the law made nothing perfect. The better hope, which was introduced is salvation through Christ.”
Hebrews 8:13
By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.
“The covenant of the Law was made obsolete.”
II Corinthians 3:6
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant — not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
“The letter of the law KILLS, but being led by the Spirit gives LIFE.”
Now, James and Silvan, I have listed the exact Scriptures from God’s word and it shows that we are no longer observers of the law, as it has been crucified with Christ. Why people want to try to live accounding to the law after Christ already fulfilled perfectly and then put it to rest, is beyond me! The whole reason that he came was to live a perfect life in the flesh where we were unable to; to fulfill the law completely with all of its commands and regulations and then to make payment for sin on our behalf..
I don’t understand why you guys don’t get it. Jesus accomplished everything for us, so if we walk in him, we will seek to do righteous naturally and not by trying to observe a written code that says “do this and don’t do that or the other thing!”
Be like the Bereans and check to see if what I am saying is not the truth. Read Romans and Galatians where it explains all of this.
Here is a question for you, when you see the Lord are you going to say “Lord, did you see how I kept your law, commands and regulations?” And if you do, he will say “Sorry not good enough, not even close, but if you would havd trusted in my completion of them and had faith in me, my fulfillment of them would have been imputed to you and you would have been saved. If anyone goes before Lord with your works as the reason why you should enter into eternal life, you will not get in! You will be like those of whom the Lord says:
“Lord, Lord, did we not prophecy in your name and cast out demons in your name and do many works in your name and Jesus will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Depart from me you evildoeres!’ ”
Why will he say this to them? Because they are coming at him with what they have done, instead of resting in what he did perfectly for us. Their prophecying, casting out demons and doing many works in his name is their reason to him as to why they should be allowed into the kingdom of God, instead of acknowleging what Jesus did.
My prayer everyday is, lead me into all the ways of righteousness, not getting out the bible and going back to Leviticus and reading over the ten commandments so that I make sure to do them. The desire to do them is on my heart, because Christ is in me.
Hi Don, Sylvan and James:
Romans 3: 23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
Matthew 18:3 And he said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 7:12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets..( THIS SUMS UP THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS )
Here is my new thought line on the mark.
I am actually contemplating a documentary on this subject.
But here is a small preview of my thought.
The beast is America. The modern machine which plow and destroys the earth.
A garden is before them and a wilderness behind.
I think the beast is Canada. 🙂
I am thinking in terms of continents.
So yes Canada is part of North America. 🙂
On second thought our Prime Minister does not ride the beast.
Just to clarify, all of those verses were very much in context, for Paul is speaking in regards to those who obsserve the works of the law to obtain salvation versus salvation by grace through faith in Christ. You saying that they were out of context is just your way diffusing the subject. Tell me, is the following out of context or is it warning all who read not to follow after the law?
“All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written:
‘Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the book of the law.’ Clearly no on e is justified before God by law, because, ‘The righteous will live by faith. ‘ ”
I hope that it is understood that this is not out of context, as Paul is speaking about the law and faith. And an example of salvation by keeping the works of the law would be “I half to observe the Sabbath on Saturday in order to obtain salvation and to maintain it, instead of “Thank you Lord for completing it on my behalf.”
As for the laws that are in place in so ciety, these are in place to keep peace and order and have nothing to do with the two covenants.
I challenge all who are reading this to take time to read Galatians to see for self if I am not speaking the truth regarding the law and grace.
Hey Don, just to clarify once again, you are not talking to people (James and me) who try to work out their salvation by observing the law.
The fact is the Law is NOT made void through faith and salvation in Christ!
Paul: ” Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. ” Rom3:31
It cannot be any clearer. WAKE UPPPPPP
Hi Silvan,
I don’t know about you, but James is living according to the law. If anyone is observing something where they believe that they must perform it in order to obtain or maintain salvation, then that person is not trusting in Christs finished work on the cross. James believes that he must keep the Sabbath on Saturday for salvation sake and to maintain it. He has said that, if one does not observe the Sabbath on Saturday, then that person is deceived and has no salvation and therefore, he is living according to works. Jesus fulfilled every bit of the law and then it was nailed to the cross, meaning that the law was not longer valid because Jesus completed it perfectly. Now we are save by grace through faith in Jesus Christ and not by works, but rest in the fact that he did it all and our part is faith. So, you see, James is living according to the works of the law. We fulfill all righteousness by following Christ, not by the old covenant of the written code. So, maybe you don’t live by the law, but James does and that is what I have been objecting to.
Hi Don,
believe me if you truely love the Lord Jesus you will keep his commandments, and they in fact include “the law and the prophets”. He Himself said that in Matthew 22:40.
His Holy Spirit will bring you to deal with the Law.
I still wondering why you choose to despise the blessings of the 4th commandment, it is wonderful to have a day of rest, a holy day fully dediacted to meet the presence of the Lord Jesus… being charged up by Him spiritually as also physically.
Why is that? Dont you want those blessing?
I guess you have stuck in your mind that the Law is something “jewish”, and therefore “unattractive” or so.
It is not, the Jews lived and live according to manmade statutes, forgetting the love, so that the law becomes heavy – “JEWISH”
Jesus explained how to keep the Law, for example
1) hatred is already murder
2) to covet is already adultery, stealing etc.
3) the Sabbath is for doing good and necessary things
He explained it for US, for you and me, so that we can understand today how to keep the Sabbath.
Finally living LAWLESS is the hallmark of evil and the Antichrist.
Dear friend, will you address Romans 3:31 in your next answer? The law is not void through faith, but the law is established.
How do you think about this verse?
Please do not only deal with the scripture which fits into your beliefs. If you want to have the whole truth you have to take every verse into consideration, or else you will have lies and false doctrines which are leading to death.
To everyone, Rabbis are now stating that the next world war is the GogMagog War from Ezekiel 38 which will bring the Jews the “Third Redemption”.
We know better – the one who brings their redemption is no one else then the FALSE CHRIST!
So it is a FAKE GOG WAR !!
Jesus says to the Rabbis:
“I am come in My Father’s name, and ye receive Me not; if another shall come in his own name, him will ye receive.” John5:43
The Jews rejected the true Messiah and are still waiting for a worldly Messiah who will bring the “chosen” their “redemption”.
Beware if you believe that Ezekiel 38 is unfolding before our eyes and that Jesus is rescuing the Jews.
It is the ANTICHRIST !
When you say “fake” it confuses me….isn’t there just 1 Gog-Magog war which of course brings the AC out of “hiding” and then ushers in our Messiahs’ return? Coming from the sky of course…
Hezekiel 38 says: GOG attacks and then immediately ISRAEL will be rescued by the LORD.
It does NOT say: 1) war/attack 2) rising of Antichrist 3) war/attack 4) rescue by the LORD.
This is the timeline.
So Ezekiel 38 cant apply to the next war and the rescue of Israel.
For the Jews it is their Messiah, but we know he is the Antichrist.
The Jews dont know the prophecies of the New Testament that first comes the Antichrist.
But they know Ezekiel, and when they see the things happening there they think their Messiah is rescuing them.
The next war is not the Gog War from Ez.38, but the war of Matthew 24 at the very beginning of the tribulation.
This coming war is deliberately set-up to appear like the fulfillment of Ezekiel 38.
The Jews will be duped, and many christians, who believe that the Republic of Israel will be saved by Jesus.
Remember, the Antichrist will look, act and smell like Jesus.
Fact is:
Ez.36/37 are happening at the beginning of the Millenium
Ez.38/39 at the END OF THE MILLENIUM
Ez.40+ after t.M.
Just read it. 🙂
I have to correct what I wrote:
“It does NOT say: 1) war/attack 2) rising of Antichrist 3) war/attack 4) rescue by the LORD.
This is the timeline.”
The timeline is
1)war/attack
2)rising of Antichrist
3)New Age Order World rule of the son of perdition 4) gathering of ALL ARMIES of the world to make war against the LORD on his horse (Rev. 19:19)
5) no fight and no fire from heaven, but a taking of the beast and throwing him into the lake of fire
(Rev19:20)
6)the remnant is slain with the sword of the Lords mouth
7)binding of Satan for 1000 years (Rev20:1)
8)peaceful Millenium (Ez.36/37), the Saints in Christ living in the Millenium in peace rest and safety in the Holy Land (Ez.38:11)
9)Satan is loosed (Rev.20:7)
10)He deceives Gog and Magog to gather them together to battle (Rev.20:8)
11)They compass the Holy Land, the camp of the Saints (Rev20:9a)
12)Fire rains from heaven and devours them (Rev.20:9b AND Ez.38:22)
13)Satan finally defeated
14)New Jerusalem, new Earth (Ez.40+ AND Rev.21)
Rev 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
Rev 20:9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Eze 38:22…I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.
Hi Lyndsey did this help? I know it is relatively difficult.
Blessings!
The chronological order did simplify it…but I am not understanding the timing of when we are “caught up” and when and why we are living in the New Jerusalem when we were caught up? I only learned of the New Jerusalem recently…last few years or so. Was raised Baptist and learned only of the rapture.
Hi Silvan and Lyndsey,
Just a note, the God and Magog event is not something that can be duped, because God himself is going to wipe out all those armies without any other nation going up against them.
“I will summon a sword against Gog on all my mountains, declares the Sovereign Lord. Every man’s sword will be against his brother. I will execute judgment upon him with plague and bloodshed; I willl pour down torrents of rain, hailstones and burning sulfur on him and on his troops and on the many nations. Then they will know that I am the Lord.”
So you see, God is going to wipe them out himself so that the nations will know that he is the Lord.
Furthermore, I personally believe that this event is going to take place towards the end of the seven year period for one reason. The Gog and Magog event seems be synonymous with the event that matches the event of Christs return to the earth to set up his millennial kingdom and that is, they both mention the birds being gathered together to eat the flesh of mighty men, prices, horses, soldiers, etc. (Ezk.39:17-20). Now compare that with Rev.19:17-21) where Christ is returning.
Therefore, either the Ezekiel event and the Revelation event of the all birds being gathered together are part of the same event, ergo the return of Christ or these are two seperate events where the birds are called together to perform the same thing at different times. Personally, I believe that they are the same event, that is, that this gathering of the birds in the Ezekiel and revelation event are the same event and therefore it takes place when Jesus returns to set up his millennial kingdom at the end of the seven years. The calling of birds is the only real common ground for establishing a time frame, because it happens in Revelation as well, otherwise, there is no way to really know when this event will take place. I don’t believe that it is speaking of the end of the millennium, because when Christ returns to set up his kingdom, he will have had men beat their swords into plowsheares and it is also stated that men will no longer train for war and therefore, no nation will have an existing army of any kind, because Jesus will be ruling with an iron cepter. There will be no hostility at all during the millennial period, there will not even be prey vs preditor during that time. The lion will be led around by the mane by a young child, a young child will stick it hand into a snakes den and not be hurt, prey and preditor will lie down together, the lion will eat straw like the ox. My point is, the millennium will be a time of peace and the nations will no longer have any type of military and therefore, how could God put hooks into the jaws of Gog and Maygog with all their armies and pull them down? This assult on Israel is something that takes place while the human goverments are still in place, just before Christ returns. But that’s just my belief on the subject.
Don, the Antichrist IS able to and WILL fake a divine intervention. The false Christ will make most of the christians and Jews believe in that he is GOD !! And that is something remarkable.
Dont underestimate the deception!
EVERYONE of us will be TEMPTED to believe that he is Jesus/God!!
Did you read Revelation 20:7-9 ?
Obviously not yet.
It is written that Gog will attack Israel at THE END OF THE MILLENIUM.
Hi Silvan,
If I was going to be here to see the antichrist/beast/man of lawlessness, I would know him right away, because I study the word of God. There is no way that I could be fooled into believing that he is the Christ. Jesus said, “When they say to you he (the christ) is in the desert, don’t go look or he is in a secret room, don’t believe them. For as the lightning shines from the east and is seen even in the west, so also shall the coming of the son of man be.” God’s word also says “Every eye shall see him.” Therefore, Christs coming will be a main event that everyone will see and will not be able to miss. I know from the word of God that this antichrist must come first before Christ and so I can not be deceived, because I know the sequence of events. But besides this, God has made it plain to me that this antichrist must frist come, so how can you say that I can be deceived? I know the order in which these events are to happen. Regarding what you said “It is written that God will attack Israel at the the end of the millennium,” this verse is not found any where. I say again, if all the weapons of war are beaten into plowshears at the beginning of the millennium and Jesus says, that during the millennium men will no longer train for war, how then can you claim that this Gog and Magog event happens during the millennium, when there will be no existing armies and Christ will be ruling on earth? The information in revelation has the people being deceived by Satan after a thousand years of him being locked up in the Abyss, where the Gog and Magog event has God as the one who is drawing those armies across the mountains of Israel. In Revelation, it has Satan doing the drawing of those people. And regarding Revelatioin 20:7-9, in fact all of revelation, I have read more times than I can count. I know what I speak of. The antichrist is going to deceive many, but I don’t believe that the church will be here, becasue that would put us in the middle of God’s wrath which we are not appointed to and therefore, we must be gone off this earth. I personally don’t believe that we will even see the antichrist, but will be taken up before he reveals himself.
I like this version better…LOL 🙂
I started keeping the sabbath when understanding that it was on Friday eve til sat eve…to honor G-D more than anything because He designated it for a reason and asked us to do so. I also believe that we are no longer under the law, but Grace. To observe the sabbath and his commandments and holidays are out of honor and respect.
Hi Lyndsey,
Observing them out of honory and respect are fine. It is when a person observes them with the attitude that, “I must do this in order to obtain and maintain my salvation” that it is a problem, because in that case, a person is not relying on Christs fulfillment of the law and is no longer acting according to the gospel. So, if you are doing these things purely out of honor and respect, such as observing a paticular feast or a specific day for meditating on God and his word, that is fine as long as it is not something that you are doing to obtain or maintain salvation. For when you do that, then you are trying to obtain the kingdom of God by works and not by grace, which is unmerited favor.
Everything Don writes I agree with. I questioned a lot of things this last year, but I went back to what I was taught and reviewed it and I stay with it. Don’s position is my position The only thing I disagree with all of you is: I think we are going to go through a depression and severe perscution like Pastor Wilkerson talks about for testing and purification before the rapture or Gog amd Magog events occur. This is just my personal point of view after all the things I have researched. But I think it will be a time of his ourpouring that Pastor Wilkerson was speaking about here:
David Wilkerson Today
MONDAY, MAY 10, 2010
THE LAST OUTPOURING
I know some will not receive what I am about to say, yet many will. I do not
believe we have yet seen the glory and fullness of the outpouring of the Holy
Spirit as prophesied by Joel. What we have seen are just a few sprinkles! Yes,
we have had a worldwide charismatic renewal and love has brought many together.
It has been an experience shared worldwide, yet it is just a foretaste.
God will permit nothing to hinder what he plans to do. The enemy is in for a
surprise. Just as it appears the church will be inundated by a satanic flood,
the Spirit will raise up a standard. Understand what that standard is, and you
will understand what God is about to do. The standard is a holy people, pure,
undefiled, delivered from the corruption that is in the world. That standard is
a new breed of sanctified Christians, who will shine forth as lights in the
midst of a wicked and perverse generation. It will not be just a renewal of
love and praise, but a restoration of holiness unto the Lord!
There will still be shouting and praise, but it will be the shout of victory
over sin and compromise, fulfilling the purpose of the last outpouring: “That
all who call on his name shall be delivered…” (Joel 2:32). Delivered from
what? From sin! From the spirit of the world!
We will not have had the fullness of the Spirit’s outpouring until baptized
people separate themselves completely from the world. We must emphasize
separation and purity of heart. The purpose of the Spirit’s coming is to
sanctify and prepare a people for the Lord’s return, a people without spot or
wrinkle.
When the fullness of the Spirit’s outpouring comes upon all flesh, conviction
for sin will be everywhere. “He will convict the world of sin, and of
righteousness, and of judgment” (John 16:8). That is the outpouring of the
Holy Spirit!
Tragically, too many speak with tongues, but then live like the devil. Sin was
never uprooted and all they received was an experience of ecstasy. God blessed
them just enough to call them into a deeper life of holiness and submission,
but they stopped and went about saying, “I’ve got the Holy Ghost.”
Oh, there is so much more! I thank God for the privilege of praying in an
unknown tongue; it is my way of releasing all the pent-up praises to God in a
communication beyond my understanding. But you can speak with the tongues of
men and even angels, and without charity, you have received nothing. But I say
it goes even deeper. You are not truly baptized with the Holy Spirit until
every hidden part of your soul has been exposed—and every sin confessed and
forsaken.
I posted a You Tube here to give you information for preparing for this time:
David Wilkerson Today
THURSDAY, MAY 20, 2010
WHERE ARE THE TIMOTHYS?
It was to the Philippian Christians that Paul first introduced the truth, “Let
the mind of Christ be in you.” Paul wrote this message to them while he was
imprisoned in Rome.
It was from a jail cell that Paul declared he had the mind of Christ, casting
aside his reputation to become a servant of Jesus and his church. Now he wrote,
“I trust in the Lord Jesus to send Timothy shortly unto you, that I also may
be of good comfort, when I know your state” (Philippians 2:19).
This is the thinking, the outworking, of the mind of Christ. Think about it:
Here was a pastor, sitting in jail, yet he wasn’t thinking of his own comfort,
his own hard situation. He was concerned only about the spiritual and physical
condition of his people. And he told his sheep, “My comfort will come only
when I know you’re doing well, in spirit and body. So I’m sending Timothy to
check up on you, in my behalf.”
Then Paul makes this alarming statement: “For I have no man like-minded, who
will naturally care for your state” (2:20). What a sad statement! As Paul
wrote this, the church around him in Rome was growing and being blessed.
Clearly, there were godly leaders in the Roman church. But, Paul says, “I have
no man who shares with me the mind of Christ.” Why was this so? “For all
seek their own, not the things which are Jesus Christ’s” (2:21). Evidently,
there was no leader in Rome with a servant’s heart—no one who had cast aside
reputation and become a living sacrifice. Instead, everyone was set on pursuing
his own interests. None had the mind of Christ. Paul could trust no one to go to
Philippi to be a true servant to that body of believers.
Paul’s words here cannot be softened: “Everybody’s out for himself. These
ministers seek only to benefit themselves. That’s why there’s nobody here I
can trust to naturally care for your needs and hurts, except Timothy.”
Our prayer should be: “Lord, I don’t want to be focused only on myself in a
world that’s spinning out of control. I don’t want to be concerned about my
own future. I know you hold my path in your hands. Please, Lord, give me your
mind, your thinking, your concerns. I want to have your servant’s heart.”
Amen.
Hi Kittii,
This subject has not yet come up, but I too believe that believers may go through some persectution prior to the resurrection and catching away. I think that the world is like a fatten calf. The churches are more like a social gathing, as long as their well-being remains intact, but just as Jesus said regarding these last days:
“Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other.”
I believe that it might be that believers are comfortable in their social church gatherings, but as soon as persecution and death arise for those who believe in Christ, then the faith of many may end there, because it will no longer be a nice comfortable social group and your very life will be at stake because of your affilation with Christ. This is why that in my prayers, I pray to God that he will give me a spirit that will be able to endure even death for his name sake and the word of God. In fact, that is something that we should all be praying, that God will give us strength to even give up our lives just as the first century church did.The threat of persecution and death are going to be like drawing a line int he sand, as It is going to separate the true believers from those who are not. And Jesus said, “If you save your life you will lose it, but if you lose your life for my sake and the gospels, you shal have it.” Eternal life! When these people turn away because of persecution and death, they will be concerned about saving their own lives over their faith in Christ.
PS. Thank you for agreeing with me regarding all that I have said, but as Paul said, be like the Bereans and verify everything that is taught. I know that what I am saying is correct, because I’m quoting Scripture and anyone reading these things should go and look at the Scriptures that I am listing, so that it is not “Cause Don said so,” but because he said so and then I read it for myself and he was right. But I know that is what you are doing, so thanks again.
Yours in Christ
Don, I just use other people’s words because I can’t write. One of my heroes is Dave Hunt. His Web site is the Berean Call:
http://www.thebereancall.org/
He’s been an example to me to research things. Read this Web page:
http://www.pre-trib.org/articles/view/current-end-time-apostasy-of-church
I learned to check out things, to test the spirits.
IJohn 4:1
Beloved, do not believe every spirit,but test the spirits to see whether they are from God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
You go girl! And thanks for the site links. I will check them out for sure.
This post has as many entries as:
I ran across this video. What will they come up with next? Police officers with a camera on their ear to record when they taser someone for legal purposes. Our society is going down the tubes fast.
the RFID chip in Baja…no need to bring cash/credit card or drivers license to get into a club in Baja
Hi Lyndsey,
You hit it on the nail head Lyndsey! I have a copy of this information regarding the Barcelona Baja Beach Club. Tuesday night is what they call “Chip Night.” Every Tuesday, they have an authorized person on site who does the chip implant, which then allows patrons to purchase their drinks by the wave of their hand over the bar scanner and which also opens VIP areas within the club to them.
The system of the mark is already here, which is the ablity to debit ones account via the point of sale (POS) system, that is, via computer transaction. Presently, the key to accessing ones account to perform monitary trasactions is via debit card. The RFID chip or something simular that will go under the skin of the individual is the next step in the evolution of this system. This technology will continue to evolve leading up to the revealing of that beast, that antichrist, who is to come and the system that will use the mark will already be in place.
The next step will be when he begins to proclaim himself to be god with the help of his right hand man, the false prophet, who will be performing wonders, signs and miracles and all for the purpose of giving credibility to that first beast, that man of lawlessness. Then around the middle of the tribulation period, they will make cash, checks, credit and debit and any other form of buying and selling obsolete, except for that mark on the right hand or forehead. With the other methods of buying and selling no longer in use, this will “Force” the inhabitants of the earth to receive that mark in order to continue to be able to buy and sell anything. In short, no mark, then no computer transaction and therefore, no purchases! Some have said “what does having a mark for the purpose of buying and selling have to do with worship of the beast?” Everything! This man who will literally be proclaiming himself to be god, will remove all the other methods of buying and selling and will leave only his mark as a way of being able to do any kind of business worldwide. And so, since his mark will be the only way to be able to continue making a living on earth, by receiving it, one would be pledging his or her allegiance to this beast and thereby rejecting Christ. It has to do with what Jesus said regarding the last days: “Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake and the gospels shall save it.” During that time, there will be those people who will love their lives more than Jesus and who do not fear God and will receive the mark in order to save their lives, but in actuality, by doing this, they will be losing their eternal life. And we all know what the word of God has to say about the consequences for those who receive the mark of the beast.
Some claim that it would take trillions of dollars to switch over to that kind of system, but that is false thinking, because we are already using that system in its infancy form. What I mean is, we are currently making purchases via computer transaction, using the debit card as a means of access, so the system that the mark will use is already here. If anything, it might just be as simple to some retailers as purchasing a new scanning device. If today, I can walk into a grocery store, purchase my food, have it scanned, swipe my debit card, which automatically debits my bank account, then why do some find the concept of the mark of the beast so hard to accept? Just take that magnetic strip reader on the back of the debit card and manufacture something that does the same thing, shrinking it down, but instead of carrying it ones wallet or purse, it goes under the skin of the right hand or forehead and viola, mark of the beast!
Soon, we will begin to see the technology that is being used at the Barcelona Baja Beach Club, begin to be used world-wide, in grocery stores, gas stations, fast foot retaurants, etc, etc. Just like the POS system it will probably take off slowly and then we will continue to see people using it more and more and the reasons will probably be for the sake of security and conveinence. But before that beast reveals himself onto the stage of history, we who are in Christ are looking and anticipating the following:
“For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be [caught up] together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage each other with these words.” (1Thes.4:16-18)
Hey don,
This makes sense to me. I think we sometimes try to make it more complicated. My impression that all that we are looking for, such as the Mark of the Beast and the AC, will all be “right under our noses the whole time”.
Now regarding the timing, you are saying that the mark will be revealed BEFORE the AC and that BEFORE the AC is revealed, we will be taken/raptured….and this takes place 3.5 years into the 7 years….with the first 3.5 years being “peaceful” and then mid point when the AC breaks the covenant with many, reveals himself, abomination that causes desolation…The elect are then taken so as NOT to endure the Mark etc…(I am hoping for this and honestly would not understand why G-D would want us to go thru the HELL part) This does rule out pre-trib tho since pre-trib would be BEFORE the peace treaty…and BEFORE the breaking of the Treaty…right?
GPS & RACING TOWARDS THE MICROCHIP
By Paul McGuire
According to an article in Time Magazine, entitled “The Government Can Use GPS to Track Your Moves,” by Adam Cohen, “government agents can sneak onto your property in the middle of the night, put a GPS device on the bottom of your car and keep track of you wherever you go.”
The government states that this doesn’t violate your Fourth Amendment rights, because “you do not have any reasonable expectation of privacy in your own driveway and that acc0rding to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit Court, “you have no reasonable expectation that the government is not tracking your movements.”
According to Cohen, “It is a dangerous decision – one that, as the dissenting judges warned, could turn America into the sort of totalitarian state imagined by George Orwell. It is particularly offensive because the judges added insult to injury with some shocking class bias: the little personal privacy that still exists, the court suggested, should belong mainly to the rich.”
This is just the tip of the iceberg. There is an entire high tech and bio-tech arsenal where live viruses can be sprayed, injected and spread through human population to act as cognitive enhancers, make people passive, dumb people down, increase or decrease sexual desire or lobotomize the masses. These “brain eating” viruses can be used to establish a scientific dictatorship described by Aldous Huxley and George Orwell.
In the movie Minority Report starring Tom Cruise people could be arrested for a crime they did not yet commit. However, our intelligence agencies are already implementing” According to a report by ABC News, however, the latest version, to be implemented in Washington D.C., can predict other future crimes as well.
From a prophetic perspective, you see the Beast government described by Daniel in Daniel Chapter 9. Obviously the next logical step is the microchip implant, which I believe will be distributed in the near future. As we approach the Tribulation Period, it is essential that is order for this beast government to arise that the Apostle Paul talked about:
2 Thessalonians 2:3
“Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition…”
This is vitally important to us living at the end time! Notice what Paul writes in II Thessalonians 2:9-12 about this:
“The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion that they should believe the lie that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.”
The Evangelical culture has been infiltrated by the great apostasy. The reason we know this is that much of the Bible teaching flows in step with the culture. In addition, many false teachers have been welcomed and even promoted by the Church. The Remnant will overcome until the Rapture, through the power of the Holy Spirit and by renewing their minds with the entire Word of God – Genesis to Revelation.
Most of all, God has a job for you to do. “For God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power, of love and of a sound mind.” We are to use spiritual weapons to overcome the strongholds or ideologies and mind control of the evil one. If you obey these basic spiritual disciplines you can be effective in the last days!
1. Read and meditate in the entire Word of God.
2. Recognize apostasy is rampant even in some “Evangelical denominations,” find a true Bible believing church that is centered on the Word and open to the Spirit.
3. Be on your guard against so-called Bible believing Christians who are “clue less” about what is going on. Try to educate them, but if they will not receive it, wipe the dust off your feet.
4. In the power of the Holy Spirit live holy and pure lives and don’t get caught up in the “everybody else is doing it” mentality.
5. Worship the Lord in singing and with music. Fellowship with true believers. The Remnant is growing stronger, but so is the false church.
6. Develop a network of like-minded believers that you can rely on in case of catastrophic attack. Take care of the practicals such as food, water and defense.
7. Do everything you can to educate people through books, discussions, DVD, giving out websites like ours or invite them to meetings. If you E Mail me I have made cases of my books significantly discounted so people can distribute them. I have doctors who have my book The Day The Dollar Died on display in their waiting rooms, engineers in high tech companies who have bought case loads to distribute. One Christian business man bought hundreds of copies of The Day The Dollar Died to distribute to all his clients. All over the world people are buying bulk quantities of “Are You Ready for the Microchip?” which I have heavily discounted to help you get the word because the time is late!
Hello again,
Re: “Now regarding the timing, you are saying that the mark will be revealed BEFORE the AC and that BEFORE the AC is revealed, we will be taken/raptured”
First of all, let me clarify, when I speak about the beast, the man of lawlessness or the antichrist, I am speaking of the same person, that is, these are all designations for the same last day ruler. For the sake of brevity and confusion, I will just use your designation of “AC” when I make mention of him.
Regarding the mark being revealed prior to the AC showing up on the stage of history, as I said, we are already been seeing the technology for the mark of the beast with the ablitity to make purchases with debit cards via computer transaction. The RFID chip is the next phase of that technology, being that it will be subdermal in nature, that is, these devices are being manufactured to be implanted under the skin. There was a time where we only had cash, then came checks, then credit cards, then the debit card which is used via computer transaction. Even though the AC has not been revealed yet, it was necessary that the technology would have to evolve prior to him arriving on the scene, so that it would be in place and ready to go when he is revealed. It is not until around the middle of the seven that he and the false prophet remove the other methods of buying and selling so that only his mark remains. This is how he will “Force” the inhabitants of the earth to receive the mark and that by removing the other options of buying and sellng.
There are different phases of this technology, first was when the ATM machines came out, then the point of sale (POS) devices started popping up, which allow us to debit our back accounts in real time, that is, our bank accouts are debited immediately at the point of sale. And now we have the last phase, which is taking the technology of the debit card and putting it in miniture form of a computer chip (the mark) to go under the skin. The computer chip may start of, as with the Baja Beach Club, going under the skin of the arm, but when the AC shows up, that will change to the right hand or forehead and it may even be implanted there before he shows up.
The mark will serve two purposes, first, having it will be the only way to make purchases, pay bills or to perform any other type of financial transaction. The first purpose will cater to the second purpose and that is, the worship of the AC. By him and the false prophet removing the other methods of buying and selling, this will force the issue. Only the great tribulation saints, those whose names that were written in the book of life before the world began, will not worship the beast or his image nor receive his mark and most will die for their stand in Christ, but not all. Regarding them Jesus said: “and except those days were shortened, no one would survive, but for the elects sake those days will be shortened.”
One of the reasons that those days are shortened (3 1/2 years) is because, there has to be people who survive on earth after the tribulation in order for there to be anyone here who are still in their mortal bodies to repopulate the millennial kingdom. But God in his grace will have left the woman (Israel) and the great tribulation saints (gentile believers) to repopulate the millennial kindom. This will take place at the time of Christ’s return to the earth, which begins that millennial kingdom.
Now in regards to your question about the timing of the resurrection and catching away taking place in relation to the AC being revealed, I believe that we, the church, will be gone prior to when the AC makes his covenant, which is the Scripture that establishes the seven year time frame. It is not until the middlle part of the seven years that he will begin to proclaim himself to be God, which is also when he sets up that image of himself in the holy place within the temple. How can this be? No one will believe that he is god! Oh, yes they will! Because he will receive a fatal head wound and come back to life and he will also have the false prophet performing miracles , signs and wonders on his behalf,which will give the AC his credibility.
I learned something today and caused me to reflect upon the topic of this page.
Long story short, I cancelled my debit card and ordered a new one. I have been lost without it-it is a HABIT to use this thing AND a convenience. I haven’t received my new card yet, so I had to pay a bill with cash. I was charged $7.00 to pay with CASH. They didn’t want Cash, they wanted either my debit card or a credit card. So, to hand deliver a payment in CASH for a bill, you will have to PAY EXTRA in order to pay with CASH. Come on now, who has ever heard of this? This is stealing in my eyes and quite frankly makes NO SENSE, but if I wanted to pay in cash I also had to pay more money!
My point is that the merchant PREFERRED my debit card or any card for that matter and charged me more money to pay my bill when using cash! We are almost there folks! It’s getting crazier every day!
Hi Lyndsey,
You are right on the money with what you have observed Lyndsey. As I have said in many other posts, I have been following this technology since the early 80’s when the first ATM’s came out, followed by the point of sale system (POS).
We have for some time now been penalized for using cash and checks and that for the purpose of forcing the masses to rely upon electronic credit and debit (buying and selling) to perform our business transactions. Have you ever noticed on your invoices that there is always a statment encouraging you to switch to electronic payment and the same with TV commercials? Then take into consideration that many retailers have been and are continuing to set up “self checkout” lanes, so you scan your own purchases, then get your debit card out and swipe which debits your account with the purchase amount in real time. This of course as you know, is making way for what has been prophecied in regards to that mark. We are seeing the continued momentum towards a completely cashless world. Soon, I believe that we will begin to see the next phase of this last day monitary system as people begin to utilize the subdermal computer chip technology that has been in development for the last several years.
As I said in many other posts, there are already businesses experimenting with this technology, the Barcelona Beach Club in the Netherlands being one of them, where the customers can receive an RFID chip implanted under their skin, which allows them to do the same thing as with a debit card, by debiting their account in real time.
Whenever I am out shopping, I always observe how eager and willing people are to use their debit cards in the self serve lines and in the cashier lines as well. It reminds me of cattle being prepared for the slaughter.
As we go along into the future, I believe we will see more and more pressure being put on the people to move away from payments by cash and check transactions to do business via computer transaction. This system will come to its completion when, during the middle of that last seven years, that false prophet forces all, both rich and poor, free and slave, great and small to receive that mark in their right hand or forehead. And as I have said before, the way in which he forces them is by making all of the other forms of buying and selling obsolete, leaving only that mark. Then what is written will come to pass which says “Unless anyone had the mark, they would not be able to buy or sell.” Without the mark, there will be no way to perform a financial computer transaction, that is, there would be no way to credit and debit ones account electronically, because the mark will be the key that allows one access his or her account.
The mark will serve two purposes, with one for the bennifit of the other. Since that mark will eventually be the only way to buy or sell, people will be foreced to receive it and by this forcing, Satan gets his worship, for this mark is his mark. So, if you want to continue living as you always have, then you will have to receive this mark, otherwise, anyone who does not receive it will be an outcast and an enemy of the antichrist and the whole.Those who do not receive it will be those who know what the mark is and what it represents, rejecting it and taking their stand for Christ and they will not love their lives so much as to shrink away from death.
What I have done personally, is that I do not use credit or debit cards, reason being is that this is the technology that will be used for the mark of the beast. After all, who side are we on anyway?! People say, “Oh, I will never receive a mark under my skin for the purpose of buying and selling.” I say, “HA!” If people can’t break away from using the debit card for the sake of conveinience, how in the world will anyone break away from receiving the mark when their very lives will be at stake by not receiving it? I don’t use this technology in order to honor God, not having anything at all to do with it. I go to the teller window of my bank and cash a check, then pay for everything with cash. When I go to the grocery store, I write a check. When I pay my bills I write a check. We as Christian’s should be resisting this system since we know what it is about and not wilfulling being apart of it.
The noose is getting tighter and tighter people! WAKE UP! Realize what is going on! Whose side are you on?
I’m sure that one of the excuses that people will use during the time of that mark will be, “But I need to pay my bills and my mortage and feed my children! God will understand.” We who are in Christ should be willing and ready to suffer persecution and even death for His name sake and for the word of God at all times.
Hey Don,
It was eye-opening for me when I realized how “lost” I was without this debit card! I never realized how “dependent” I was on this piece of plastic. For me though, it is that I am a visual person and by using the debit card, I am able to go online and SEE all the transactions that are kept itemized by using the debit card. I will have to find some way of getting over this. I just realized that my dad never used the debit card-he wrote a check for all his bills and hand delivered them instead of mailing them…and he kept a log of what he spent. I guess he did the same thing I am doing only mine is electronic and his was “old fashioned-pen and paper” LOL
I would challenge anyone reading this to go just 2 or 3 days without their debit card and they will see how “dependent” they have become.
AND…regarding what you said “anyone who does not receive it will be an outcast and an enemy of the antichrist and the whole.”
This made me think of what Obama did over the summer-it is called the Presidential assasination program? Where the president is now over the CIA and has COMPLETE authority (not having to answer to congress) over who is considered a “threat” or “enemy” of the United States and that he/she can ORDER the ASSASINATION of this person-American or not- without due process of law.
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/04/07/assassinations
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,597123,00.html
Hello again Lyndsey,
Your remark about being dependent upon the debit card is exactly my point, when I said that, if people can’t give up their debit cards for the sake of conveinience, how in the world will they be able to deny receiving the mark when their very lives will depend on having it. The debit card, via computer transaction, is just getting everyone comfortable and prepared for the next phase, the mark, which will eventually replace the debit and credit cards. People think that this mark is symbolic, in that, the mark is not a literal mark, the right hand is not the literal right hand and the forehead is not referring to the literal forehead. I have read and studied God’s word and these prophecies for 38 years, so I know what is symbolic and what is literal and there is nothing in the context regarding the mark of the beast that would suggest symbolism. In fact, everywhere that the mark is mentioned in Revelation is consistant when mentioning the right hand or forehead, these being the only two places that this mark will be located on the body. I was right in regards to the ATM system and the POS system and now the third phase is upon us, that being a personal, financial, identification code. For those who don’t believe that the mark has nothing to do with the subdermal chip technology, just sit back and watch. Because the next thing that you are going to start seeing will be more and more people beginning to have this chip implanted, replacing their debit cards to make their purchases. I’ll say it again, I told people in the early 80’s that cash was going to disappear and that we would be relying on electronic transactions and they said ” Oh, Americans will never allow the government to take away our cash.” Huh, 30 years later and here we are above 90% a cashless society. Also, according to the word of God, only those people whose names that were not written in the book of life from before the world began, will worship the beast,and receive his mark (Rev.13:8; 17:8). I thank God that you recognize the significance of the debit card in relation to the technology of the subdermal chips. We don’t have to guess about that, because they are already manufacturing these subdermal chips and are being used in animals, hospitals and they want to implant them in children and prisoners. These applications are of course for the purpose of identification and information, but as we have already seen, there is also a monitary application for these subdermal chips as well, which will lead the way to the fulfillment of John’s prophecy during the day of the Lord. Just keep watching!
This web site watch.pair is so extensive. If I didn’t know what I do now I would of thought it’s anti-Jewish. But’s it’s not anti-jewish. You really have to print out the information, because it has too many links. It goes every which way and has foot notes everywhere.
http://watch-unto-prayer.org/marks.html
http://watch.pair.com/mark6.html
http://watch.pair.com/mark.html
http://watch.pair.com/mark2.html
http://watch.pair.com/stuph.html
http://watch.pair.com/elijah.html
Tattoo or computer chip?
Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.”
Leviticus 19:28
“And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.” Revelation 13:17
“And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man do homage to the beast and his image, and receive his mark on his forehead, or upon his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.” Revelation 14:9-11
When discussing the Mark of the Beast, it is necessary to state at the outset that the various versions of the Bible obfuscate the subject of the mark “insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect”! For starters, we must warn that the King James Version does not always follow the Textus Receptus and unfortunately mistranslates the critical verses pertaining to the Mark of the Beast. Our position is that the Textus Receptus was verbally inspired by God and is the complete revelation of His will for the salvation of men. The George Ricker Berry Interlinear Greek-English New Testament 1. translates the Textus Receptus accurately in these verses.
“And it causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free and the bondmen, that it should give them a mark on their right hand, or on their foreheads; and that no one should be able to buy or to sell, except he who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of its name.” (Rev. 13:16,17)
Revelation 14:9-11 describes the eternal damnation of those who receive the mark of the beast ON the hand or forehead:
“And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man do homage to the beast and his image, and receive his mark ON his forehead, or UPON his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.”
In the King James Version, the identical phrase in Rev. 20:4 pertaining to the mark on the forehead is correctly translated “upon”:
“And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark UPON their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.”
The Textus Receptus states that there will be three distinct ways offered to men to show allegiance to the beast — “that no one should be able to buy or to sell, except he who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of its name.” In this verse the King James follows the Textus Receptus closely, however, modern versions restructure Rev. 13:17 in such ways as to change its meaning:
NIV – “…so that no one could buy or sell, unless he had the mark, which is the name of the beast, or the number of his name.”
NASV – “…that no one should be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name. ”
RSV – “…so that no one can buy or sell unless he has the mark, that is, the name of the beast or the number of its name.”
Amplified – “…So that no one will have power to buy or sell unless he bears the stamp (mark, inscription), [that is] the name of the beast or the number of his name.”
The Message – “Without the mark of the name of the Beast or the number of its name, it was impossible to buy or sell anything.”
By means of this literary sleight of hand in modern versions, the Mark becomes the Name or Number of the Beast rather than having a separate identity. However, all three of these three symbols of allegiance to the Antichrist are currently finding acceptance in the apostate church.
The current New World Order propaganda identifies the Mark of the Beast as the computer chip implant. However, according to Strong’s Concordance, the definition for the word “mark” in Revelation 13:16-17 is not “implant” but an “engraved” image or “etching”. This definition applies exclusively to ALL references to “the mark” in the book of Revelation.
5480 – charagma, (khar’-ag-mah); from the same as 5482; a scratch or etching, i.e. stamp (as a badge of servitude), or sculptured figure (statue):-graven image, mark.
5482 – charasso-(to sharpen to a point, akin to 1125 through the idea of scratching)…
1125 – grapho-(graf-o); a prim. verb; to “grave”, espec. to write; fig. to describe:– describe, write(-ing,-ten) 2.
[Eng. Dictionary def.– “grave” –Archaic. engrave; carve; sculpture. 2.impress deeply; fix firmly]
Leviticus 19:28 states: “Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you: I am the LORD.” Although the ancient pagan custom of etching or tattooing symbols on human flesh was forbidden by God, Tattooing for Jesus by David Cloud reveals that this heathen custom is now being introduced to the churches.
“Reporter Douglas Todd of The Vancouver Sun visited the Vineyard Christian Fellowship in Langley, British Columbia, and found that tattoos are the newest ‘in thing’ for Vineyard Christians. Amy Bonde, who is a staff member at the Vineyard in Langley, has a large Celtic cross tattooed on the small of her back. Encircling the cross are Hebrew letters that allegedly mean, ‘I am my beloved’s, and he is mine.’ Bonde says the tattoo signifies that she looks upon Jesus Christ as her ‘lover.’ Another Vineyard member, Peter Davyduck, has a tattoo of the word ‘SIN’ on his ankle. He says this is a message to ‘judgmental Christians that everyone is a sinner and should be accepted in spite of it.’
“The Vancouver Sun report notes that the tattooing represents ‘a sign of a seismic shift in evangelical Christianity, which has been associated for most of this century with harsh rules about controlling one’s body: no dancing, no long hair on men, no pants on women, no drinking, no dancing, no jewelry and certainly NO TATTOOING.’
“The Bismarck Tribune (North Dakota) ran an article in November 1998 about the Christian Tattoo Association operated by Randy Mastre and two other members of New Song Community Church in Bismarck. Their goal is ‘to bring Christianity to tattooers.’
“…Amy Bonde admits that she got a tattoo ‘partly out of rebellion against the normal Christian stereotype of ‘You can’t do this, you can’t do that.’ She admits that her mother did not want her to get a tattoo and did not like it… ” 3. [bolding added]
The Greek dictionary defined “the mark” to include “a scratch or etching, i.e. stamp” and ” to “grave”, espec. to write”. The English dictionary definition of “tattoo” is to “…mark (the skin) with designs or patterns by pricking it and putting in colors…”
The Microsoft Encarta Encyclopedia 99 describes modern methods of tattooing:
Re:
“The current New World Order propaganda identifies the Mark of the Beast as the computer chip implant. However, according to Strong’s Concordance, the definition for the word “mark” in Revelation 13:16-17 is not “implant” but an “engraved” image or “etching”. This definition applies exclusively to ALL references to “the mark” in the book of Revelation.”
First of all, one has to remember that, John is seeing a vision of the future. Therefore, since John has no way to communicate the technology of something being implanted under the skin, he describes the closest thing that he can to describe this mark, as an etching or tattoo. Because of the time period that John is speaking from, he cannot say “He causes all both rich and poor, free and slave, great and small to receive a computer chip under the skin in order for them to be able to credit and debit their bank accounts.” The fact is, we are seeing the technology in regards to what John was speaking of regarding this mark and that being, the ablity to credit and debit ones account via computer transaction with the computer chip (mark) as the key that accesses ones personal account, just in the same way that the debit card does. This is exactly what is meant when John says “And except anyone had the mark, they would not be able to buy or sell.” Buying and selling is credit and debiting! It is a moot point to argue regarding what the mark is, since it is already being used in this manner. You have people that are currently having computer chips being implanted under their skin in order to make purchases by scanning their chips. For those who have studied this topic, it doesn’t take rocket science to make the connection. We are currently already using the system that the mark will utilize and it is currently in the form of the debit card. If one wants to make an electronic purchase, he or she must have their debit card in order to access their account. No debit card, no electronic transaction. It will be the same with the mark at around the middle of the last seven years. God’s word states “He [forces] all great and small, rich and poor, free and slave to receive a mark.” As I posted previously, at some point during the middle of the last seven year period, the false prophet will make all the other forms of buying and selling (cash, check, credit and debit) obsolete, leaving only that mark. Therefore, with the rest of the modes of buying and selling no longer in use, the only way to be able to perform financial transactions will be via computer transaction and the mark, like the debit card, will be the only way to make that transaction, ergo “He forces all.” Anyone who does not have that computer chip will not be able to have a bank account, a job, pay bills, buy food, etc, etc. And you will be an enemy of the beast and the entire world!
The only two choices that will be available at that time will be one, receive the mark in order to continue living life or two, reject the mark and the beast and his image. If one should receive the mark, we know what God’s word as to say about those who do, which is found in Rev.14. For those who reject the beast and his mark, they will be taking their stand for Christ and by doing so, many of the great tribulation saints will be persecuted and beheaded (Rev.20:4). Furthermore, a tattoo, which is placing ink underneath the skin has nothing to do with buying and selling. The computer chip (mark) however, fits perfectly in regards to John’s prophecy because it will allow one to access his or her bank account to perform electronic financial transactions.
Don;
I’ve agreed with you on just about everything. Open your mind up just a little. Weren’t you and James Giordano going head to head on this subject and isn’t that why there are 593 entries on this page alone. I was hoping you would at least look at that web site. There’e over 1000 pages. You can’t just skim through it.
http://www.albatrus.org/english/living/body_mods/what_the_bible_says_about_tattoos.htm
http://www.raptureready.com/featured/schaefer/tattoo.html
I see parallels between what’s going on today and Nazi Germany. Even some of the secular Jews will tell you the same thing, like Naomi Wolfe. It’s not because I studied it. I just watched so many of those movies on the subject.
Lyndsey is beginning to pick up on the line: “Connect the Dots”
Since we all know I can’t write, I guess I have to post a video on the subject. Tattoos were used in Nazi Germany, right?
http://tattoojewmovie.com/home/
http://www.myspace.com/tattoojew
http://tattoojewmovie.com/kosher-ink-the-emerging-world-of-tattooed-jews/
What follows after this introduction is an interview I conducted with Henry Harris, an Orthodox Rabbi who is the Educational Director of the Aish Center in Manhattan. His credentials in the Jewish world are quite remarkable and it is important to note that he comes from an observant and traditional community.
However, do not allow the term “traditional” (or the beard) to be limiting here. In the midst of this interview process as well as in preceding and follow-up conversations, Rabbi Harris or, as he prefers to be called, Henry proved himself a worldly and thoughtful individual, open to learning just as much as he is to teaching.
Since I first approached him, Rabbi Harris has been respectful of my personal tattoo choices and eager to share his thoughts with a community of curious individuals. There is a lot of misinformation about the Jewish beliefs regarding tattoos. Some of what follows was news to me and I was, personally, corrected of mistakes in my understanding.
Learning is a proud, Jewish tradition and I am happy to be a conduit between the Rabbi and the readers.
Greetings, Rabbi Harris. Let’s begin at the ending. If you are tattooed, can you be buried in a Jewish cemetery?
Absolutely. Getting a tattoo in Jewish wisdom is viewed as a no-no, a lack of awe of the masterpiece called our body. It’s not grounds for divorce [from Judaism]– especially not from the Jewish people.
Will the cemetery have to cut out the tattoo or the portion of the body bearing the tattoo?
Absolutely not. Judaism considers the human body to be a perfect creation. We do not want any of it cut or removed for any reason if it can be avoided. The exception is if removing a body part would save a life, such as in certain cases of organ donation.
Then, why do parents react so strongly against this topic? I mean, most non-practicing Jewish parents will adhere to this rule, but may not follow other religious rules. Any idea why this one is so scandalous? As a youth, the only reason my mother gave was “you can’t be buried in a Jewish cemetery.”
It is a shame that the idea of exclusion was used to express their opinion. Truth is, Judaism is a very welcoming community. As I said before, tattoos are not grounds for a divorce, or for a split between the Jewish community and her children.
As for parents, I think this is a value that speaks to folks on several levels. On the most basic level, the Torah tells us not to tattoo because it undermines our awe for the gift of life and the human body. We just wouldn’t stomach a tattoo on the Mona Lisa or a Rembrandt. To us, the body is created perfect, so any addition or subtraction for that matter would, automatically, be considered a lessening of that perfection. That is not to say that tattoos are not beautiful pieces of art. I would just display them on a different canvas.
But, the anger from parents extends beyond this conception of “undermining our awe for the gift of life.” There must be more to it.
Once upon a time, tattoos were just not so common. Someone wearing a tattoo was making a statement of rebellion and rejection of a perceived wholesomeness, and to some extent a perceived hypocrisy in that “wholesomeness.” Old School Jews, even non-observant ones, still feel that tattoos are an affront to that wholesomeness.
So, it is a perception thing or, is it against Jewish law to be tattooed? Can you point me to a specific passage that forbids tattooing?
Leviticus, 19:28 — “You shall not make a cut in your flesh on account of the dead, and a tattoo you shall not place upon yourselves – I am Hashem (the Creator).”
I find it difficult to believe that the Bible actually references tattoos.
The word tattoo was not in use at the time, but the passage I mentioned literally describes the act of cutting yourself and inserting ink into the skin. All translations use the word tattoo as it is exactly the process being described.
What attracts many to Judaism is the intellectual and spiritual interplay allowed within. So much of Jewish thought encourages and allows personal interpretation of the law. Is there room for that here?
Judaism absolutely affirms the concept of interplay, dialogue, and pluralistic thinking — within boundaries. Ultimately, there are some parameters. If someone wanted to murder in the name of the Jews, No. That’s not a legitimate definition of Jewish thought and practice.
So what are the boundaries? They’re contained within a powerful, sophisticated, yet precise body of wisdom revealed to a nation of Isrealights at Mt. Sinai and maintained through an exceedingly rigorous transmission process.
We Jews are the only people in the world who maintain that an entire nation heard a Divine revelation. Other religious beliefs rely upon the claim of one individual, most often a man, to have heard a revelation, and then interpret and deliver its message. In Judaism, men and women, poor and rich, educated and not all heard revelation.
I am proud to say that Judaism has an unbroken tradition of Oral Teaching going back thousands of years. Within that wisdom, tattoos have always been considered forbidden.
Someone with such concern for a history of story-telling and community should appreciate tattooing, which is, itself, a form of story-telling within a specific community.
I do very much appreciate the art and skill of tattooing and understand that most tattooists are also gifted artists in other mediums and am always open to seeing new art work. There is much that I can appreciate but do not wish to partake in for spiritual, personal, health or other reasons. Like, for instance, eating too much chocolate cake. I gain so much from my connection to Hashem and the history of my people, that, in cases like this, I do not consider it a loss.
What is the inter-connection between other Jewish laws regarding dress and appearance and the tattoo forbiddance?
Appearance in Judaism is about accepting our physical and bodily dimension. Unlike other belief systems, we do not consider the human body to be evil or gross. Instead, we choose to emphasize our soul/value dimension.
We aim to dress in a way that is attractive and put-together, but not attention-getting for the sake of attention getting. I, my life, and my self-esteem work better when I am not associating myself and placing heavy attention on physicality per se.
It takes courage and conviction to speak through the dignity of my actions and words and I, for one, see that the Jewish values associated with dress nudge me down that “courage” road. Tattoos are an example of focusing on the body in a way that your words can be less emphasized. And more to the point, the Creator — who knows life better and loves me more than I do — says it’s a no-no.
Judaism encourages the arts, correct? How does this relate to that?
Similar idea. Art is creating something authentic and unique that moves people – but not anywhere. There are certain things that are artistic in nature but undermine some of the ideal values we’re looking to celebrate.
Similarly, Judaism encourages personal agency. How does this relate to that?
Personal agency for personal agency’s sake doesn’t work. This might be controversial to many, but my overwhelming experience of life bears out one main conclusion — Jewish wisdom is real; it’s changed the world for the better; it changes the life of anyone who takes it seriously. If Jewish wisdom says that there’s a Creator who gave us instructions for living, it behooves me to investigate that claim.
Check it out for myself – Judaism doesn’t ask for leaps of faith. It demands, “Know there is a Creator.”
If Judaism allowed tattooing, would you consider it?
Sure! (but I’m a wimp, so I think the discomfort would require it to be a commandment before I’d do it).
What tattoo would the Rabbi get if he could get one?
King David with book in one hand and sword in the other?
What becomes of one who is tattooed but chooses to live a more traditionally religious life? Can he just stop getting tattoos? Would he be accepted into the religious community?
Absolutely. This happens hundreds of times every year.
Most Jews who get tattooed, seem to get Jewish symbols tattooed on themselves. Can you offer an analysis as to why?
Every Jew, in his soul, has a connection to their people and their heritage. Out loud and proud, baby!
Is is worse to get a Jewish tattoo? Is it better?
It shows a greater love of Jewish identity, which is great (the Jews of Egypt were doing all kinds of problematic things, but they identified outwardly with Jewish identity and destiny, and they became “Team Jew”). That doesn’t change that it’s still not allowed.
—
Rabbi Henry Harris is the Educational Director of the Aish Center. Having “graduated” from Judaism at his Bar Mitzvah, he went on to study history at Columbia University, freelance for the Washington Post, and teach inner city youth in New York. Traveling in Israel before grad school, he unexpectedly fell in love with Judaism, traded a PhD program for the rabbinate, met his wife Tzipora, and a year later joined the Aish Center in Manhattan where they live and entertain with their children.
The Aish Center’s mission: “To create a renaissance of Jewish pride in New York City.”
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Hi Kittii,
Forgive me, I don’t mean to be rude, but I just know, what I know. I’ve been watching and anticipating this for 30 years! My base for information is God’s word specifically. I don’t rely on videos, or other books to arrive at my interpretation of God’s word. Rather, I read other books and at times watch videos only to see if other people are in agreement with what God’s word is saying. In regards to the mark of the beast, all one has to do is look at how we are performing our financial transactions today. The purpose of the mark is specified, that is, its intended use, which is:
“Unless anyone had the [mark] he would not be able to [buy] or [sell].”
So, we can see that the purpose of the mark is monitary in nature, for buying and selling is crediting and debiting. This is exactly what we currently do with the debit card. You make a purchase with the debit card and your account is debited; if someone buys something from you, then your account is credited. The system is already here. Having an ink tattoo has nothing to do with being able to buy or sell. As I said, John uses the closest word that he can to describe what he is seeing in his vision of the future regarding this mark. He can’t say:
“They took a syringe and implanted a computer chip, which allows the inhabitants of the earth to credit and debit their bank accounts.”
He has no wording to describe what he is seeing and so he says;
“He forces all both great and small, rich and poor, free and slave to receive a mark in his right hand or forehead. And except anyone had the mark, they would not be able to buy or sell.”
Now, here we are with subermal computer chip technology being manufactured for multiple purposes and in fact is also currently being used under the skin for the very purpose of making purchases. How can we not put two and two together? The very fact that we have a device that goes under the skin to be used for monitary transactions should send up a giant red flag! we are the only generation that could possibly know what John was talking about in regards to this prophecy. I know that this subdermal chip tecnology will be the fulfillment of the mark of the beast prophecy as sure as I know that Jesus is the only answer to salvation. There are some who say that the mark of the beast was fulfilled within the times of the Roman empire, but what they fail to take into consideration is that, the system of the mark of the beast, according to the word of God, will continue right up until the return of Christ when He sets up His millennial kingdom, which also ushers in the end of human government. To be sure, none of the information that I have shared with you has come from video or other books, but from studying the word of God alone. Satan and his angels are deceivers. By reason of those counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders that the false prophet will perform, the inhabitants of the earth will be deceived into believing that this beast, that is, this antichrist will be who he will be proclaimimg himself to be and that is god or anthing that is called god, sitting in the temple, showing himself that he is god. As I told James in a post a while ago, a good rule of thumb is, do not receive anything that goes on or under the skin, which would be used for the purpose of being able to make purchases, whatever it is! But, now just out of curiousity, I will watch the video just to see what is being taught. I hope that I haven’t offended you, because that is not my intention. I’m only concerned about contending for the truth of God’s word. I am just certain about what I know and have studied and what I observe in the world.
Why can’t you have both? Computer chip and tattoo? The world is just getting set up for this whatever it is. Read the web site.
http://watch.pair.com/marks.html
SOLD OUT OR SELLING OUT?
Rita Elkins, a reporter for Florida Today, states in the article, “CHRISTIAN PUNKS HAVE PIERCINGS, TATTOOS AND…RADICAL FAITH,” that this “radical” approach is being undertaken by young people across North America. Rita Elkins writes:
“…Reflecting a national trend, hundreds of teens and young adults from Titusville to Sebastian are combining punk appearance with a radical Christianity based on the Bible and a personal, often deeply emotional, relationship with Jesus Christ.
“Between 100 and 300 Christian punks show up wherever their favorite bands play, including a Sunday night worship service and Bible study called ‘Deeper’ at Tabernacle Church in Melbourne. ‘A lot of people look at us different because we have piercings and we’re Christian,’ says Ashley Wecker, 15,…At last week’s Deeper service, she was sporting silver jewelry in multiple-pierced ears and in one pierced eyebrow.
“‘I struggled with it at first,’ admits her father, Richard Wecker, 50. But after hearing a pastor ask if parents would prefer children who are ‘sold out to Christ,’ or children who ‘are basically formed in our image,’ Wecker says he relaxed…
“If their heart is after Jesus, what difference does it make? He’s given me at least a peace about it, as long as I can see where their hearts are.” 4.
It is appalling that Christian leaders would encourage disobedience to God’s command against marking the flesh. The aforementioned parent probably discerned that tattooing was wrong but was persuaded otherwise by a pastor who regards disobedience to Scripture as being “sold out to Christ”. This article also reported that with tattoos, Christian youth are right in step with their unbelieving peers — no separation from the world for Generation X Christians!
“A handful of Brevard teens — considered radical even by their Christian peers — say body marking is an essential part of their faith. But most of the local Christian punks ‘are just, you know, being teen-agers,’ says Ashley Wecker.
“In other words, it’s only coincidence they’re finding faith at the same time they’re digging punk styles.” 5.
For many teenagers tattooing is a form of rebellion, which Scripture equates with witchcraft. (I Samuel 15:23) It is not surprising that one popular symbol is the ancient symbol associate with Saturn worship in the Old Testament. Like Mattel’s “Butterfly Art Barbie”, who had one such design neatly centered on her navel, “Christian” tattoos are being branded on the private parts of the body:
“‘I wanted a tattoo for a long time, for solely non-Christian reasons,’ says Brandon Eaton, 17. ‘But God is my life, so everything I do reflects that.’ The result? A Star of David with ‘Jesus’ tattooed on the outside of his calf.
“…Andy Richardson…once had his nipples pierced, but decided soon after it wasn’t for him. Now he has two Christian-themed tattoos in private locations on his body.
“‘They’re both for me and the Lord — not for other people to see — to remind me every day when I wake up that he is my life,’ says Richardson, who works with various church youth groups and overseas missions. ‘A tattoo is forever, like the Lord’s forever.'” 6.
Tattooing was a ritual common to pagan religions which involved the worship of other gods. An example of this practice is found in I Kings 18:28 where the prophets of Baal cut themselves in order to invoke their gods. To mark oneself in allegiance to a strange god violates what Jesus called “the first and greatest commandment” of the moral law — “to love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.” [Matt. 22:37] False teachers who advocate tattooing or branding occult symbols on young people today must wrest the Scriptures (to their own destruction) attempting to justify that receiving such a mark is a Biblical concept.
“…Supporters point to Bible verses hinting at its acceptability. There are even indications God used physical markings to set people apart for divine purposes.”
“A compelling example is a popular T-shirt that reads, ‘Body piercing saved my life,’ accompanied by drawings of Jesus’ pierced hands and feet.”
“…one youth’s personal Web page: http://www.angelfire.com/oh/dorkville. …The word I like to use is tau-too. Tau is a Hebrew letter that means cross or mark, so it is a cross mark for God.” 7.
Rationalization for marking Christians will likely be based upon the misinterpretation of Scripture passages such as Ezekiel 9 and denial of Leviticus 19:28, as found on the website of the aforementioned youth who promotes “tau-tooing.” This lad also promotes a book on Tau-tooing and the Bible, although any occultist would recognize that TAU is the universal symbol of consecration for the Royal Arch Degree of Masonry.
“Tau (Heb.). That which has now become the square Hebrew letter tau, but was ages before the invention of the Jewish alphabet, the Egyptian handled cross, the crux ansata of the Latins, and identical with the Egyptian ankh. This mark belonged exclusively, and still belongs, to the Adepts of every country. As Kenneth R.F. Mackenzie shows, ‘It was a symbol of salvation and consecration, and as such has ben adopted as a Masonic symbol used by the ancient Mexicans — as its presence on one of the palaces at Palenque shows — as well as by the Hindus, who placed the tau on the brows of their Chelas.'” 8.
Like the secular tattoo parlors whose clientele include high class patrons rather than drunken sailors, Pentecostal, Vineyard and Calvary Chapel churches rationalize tattoos as an art form.
“The Christian Tattoo Association boasts almost 100 tattoo parlors as members…
“We don’t want everybody in the world to think that tattooing is the work of the devil, because it isn’t,” says Randy Mastre of Bismarck, N.D., a Pentecostal seminarian and tattoo artist who founded the association. ‘It’s a beautiful art form.’
“Locally, Christian punks can be found scattered in area churches. But they tend to congregate around New Life Christian Center in Titusville, Calvary Chapel on Merritt Island and at South Brevard’s Tabernacle Church. Each of these has strong contemporary music programs and youth ministries that refuse to be shocked by appearances.
“…Is all this a bit extreme? Yes, but that works with teens, says Vineyard Christian Fellowship youth pastor Curtis Deming.
“‘I find that teen-agers as a species tend to gravitate to extremes, and that mainstream moderation in anything is boring to them,’ says Deming, who sometimes has to reel kids in from other dangerous extremes. ‘But my answer wouldn’t be, ‘Don’t go overboard with this God thing.'” 9.
To suggest that teen-agers are a separate “species”, with different sin issues and different requirements of obedience, is to depart from the truth of God’s Word. Teens especially need the clear teaching of God’s word from their parents (Deut. 6:7; Prov. 22:6). Since many of these teenagers will not be taught the Scriptures or will be reading versions of the Bible that alter key verses, it is conceivable that they will believe that they must receive a mark that is distinctive for “Christians” in order to demonstrate their allegiance to God.
I think many people are being led astray by the incorrect interpretation of the word “mark.”
Everyone assumes the word is being used either as a literal “marking” of some kind or nowadays it’s a subdermal chip in order to fit in with current technology.
But what the word mark really refers to is a “mark of authority” – allegiance to something the devil has corrupted and which is against the law of God. Satan is very clever in this regard – smart enough to fool the very elect.
I suggest you read the article below and see if it makes sense out of this prophecy. After all, you don’t want to be wrong about the true mark of the beast, do you?
For some reason the web address did not show up above so I will try it again:
I must be doing something wrong – I can’t get the link to show up.
A little help Marianne?
Thanks.
The tatoo was originally forbidden because it was a pagan practice, and it indicated allegiance to a foreign god.
The reasoning still applies today.
If someone has a tatoo of Jesus or a star of David on them, I don’t think God is going to condemn that.
If they had a devil tatoo, I might recommend having it removed.
The mark of the beast is an open, public display of allegiance to the beast, which is a foreign god, so it is forbidden.
umm….what about a tatoo of winnie the pooh!? a friend of mine, ya know…back in college…loss a bet….lol
not a problem unless winnie the pooh becomes a false god.
I’m sure that Winnie the Pooh will be ok Lyndsey, it just won’t buy anything. He.. he…
James;
A year ago when I started investigating the conspiracy of 9/11 I started looking at all Christian denominations and what they believed. I moved into the Jewish beliefs and then the New Agers and Muslims. The Christian community is not at all unified on the Rapture, and Israel.
A lot of people believe there’s a conspiracy to depopulate the earth. So micro-chipping the planet if population is decreased might not be a problem. If the rapture happens if will even be less of a problem. Although some Christians are saying there aren’t as many “so called Christians” going in the rapture, so it might not be as noticeable as we think.
The goal of hospitals was to have charting and medication delivery completely computerized by 2008. It’s that way at my hospital. We’re not 100% there yet across the board, but it’s picking up. They are eliminating all the small hospitals. I believe the only two systems left will be Kaiser and Catholic. (maybe Jewish too, although there aren’t that many of them). If the dollar fails will have our new currency the Amero and the North American Union. I have to remind myself on a daily basis that this isn’t a dream.
People are going to fight the Anti-Christ. They already are fighting “The New World Order”. That’s why I have done so many posts on the New Agers. A lot of people are going to lose their lives, but they will gain their salvation. I wonder sometimes if it’s the Christian community is the one that is going to be deceived. I highly recommend reading that web site.
http://watch.pair.com/
Don’t forget, one has to swear an oath to accept the mark. Once, done, that person will never enter Heaven.
There is arguement within the Christian community on Pre-Trib, Mid-Trib, and Post Trib-Pre wrath. If like Noah who was protected during the flood, and the Jews protected during the chase by Egypt, then it could be Christians who are protected somehow during the Tribulation, but raptured to be in the new earth.
This would mean, we will all be here when the Anti-Christ shows himself, and makes war on the Saints. Plus, he will demand everyone take the mark, or starve.
Death before Dishonor!
Easy to write, hard to do.
Hi Leatherneck,
I’m Don, good to meet you. Yes, there are many views as to when the resurrection and catching away take place, as you said, pre, mid and post tribualtion and I have many reasons for believing that those in Christ will not even see the antichrist, but will be resurrected and caught up prior to his revealing. Here is just one verse of Scripture that would support that theory:
“Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also [keep you from] the hour of trial that is going to come upon the [whole world] to test those who live on the earth.”
(Rev.3:10)
This is the promise that Jesus gives to the church of Philadelphea and not only to that church, but to the other six churches of that time and to all the churches throughout the entire church period. We know that this promise is to us because, the Philadelphia church that the letter was written to are all dead and buried, therefore, Jesus must necessarily be speaking to that Philadelphia type of church that is present prior to that hour of trial that is going to come upon the earth, which is still a future event.
Now, the phrase “Hour of trial” is another designation for “The day of the Lord” and the “Tribulation period,” which is when the seven seals will be opened, the seven trumpets blown and the seven bowls poured out upon the earth. These make up that hour of trial, which of course is not an actual hour, but represents that seven years. In the same way, the day of the Lord is not a single day, but represents that same seven years. Some might say that the church is going to go through this time of God’s wrath, but notice that in the verse Jesus says that this hour of trial is going to come upon the [whole earth], which means that there would be no way for those in Christ to escape it. Not only that, but most of the great tribulation saints are killed during the second part of that last seven years and that being the case, then Jesus would not be keeping His promise when he says “I will keep you [from] the hour of trial”. To be kept [from] means that we will not even enter into that hour of trial. For He does not say “I will keep you through it” or “I will keep you safe within it.” But he says “I will keep you [from it].”
Here is another verse of Scripture that many pass over, not understanding its significance:
“Be careful, or your hearts will be weighted down with dissipation, drunkeness and the anxieties of life, and [that day] will close on you unexpectedly like a trap. For it will [come upon all] those who live on the face of the [whole earth]. be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to [escape] all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.” (Lk.21:34-36)
Here Jesus just got done telling his disciples about the tribulation period, that is, the wrath of God and then regarding that time period He says “Pray that you may be able to [escape] all that is about to happen.” Escape? Here again, Jesus makes it clear that this time is goig to envolve everyone who lives on the face of the [whole earth] and so there would be no escape by remaining on the earth. The only way to escape all that is going to happen during that time of wrath would to not be on the earth when it happens. (1Thes.4:16; 1Cor.15:51)
Something else to think about is this: From chapter 1 through the very end of chapter 3 in the book of revelation, the word “Church” and “Churches” tanslated from the Greek “Ekklesia” is used over and over throughout those chapters and is in fact the very last word of chapter 3 and then the word “Church” is never used again during the narrative. It’s gone! The next word used to describe a believer in Christ is “Saint” translated fromt the Greek “Hagios.” coincidence? I think not. There is a reason why God did this and I believe that reason is a clue to show us that, the Church is gone prior to the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which are His wrath being poured out. And regarding His wrath, we must keep in mind what Paul wrote:
“For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath, but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. (IThes.5:9)
To be sure Jesus said that we would suffer persecution and have tribulation in the world, but persecution and God’s wrath are two different things. Persecution is meted out by mankind at the prompting of pricipalities and powers and spiritual wickeness in high places. Where the wrath of God is just that, God directly pouring out his wrath on a sinful, Christ rejecting world,which Paul says, we are not appointed to suffer, ergo we must be removed from this earth prior to that wrath.
Also, I might add, the antichrist will never demand that anyone take his mark. He won’t have to, because once he makes cash, checks, credit and debit cards obsolete, having the mark will be the only way to make any kind of purchase for food, gas, mortage, bills, etc. In my opinion, the mark will be the key to being able to credit and debit ones account via computer transaction. This means that people will be anxious to receive his mark in order to survive and therefore, he won’t have to demand anything, for they will do it wilfully.
Hi again Kittii and all,
If I might add to your post, according to Jesus and echoed by Paul, many are going to fall away from the faith, but not over a long period of time, but in a short period of time because of persecution and death that will arise for His name sake and the gospel. I don’t know if this takes place prior to the seven year period or at the middle of the seven.
“Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of Me. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other.” (Mt.24:9-10)
So, at that time there will be those who are proclaiming to be in Christ, but as soon as persecution and death become the consequences for their faith in Him, then for many, that will be the extent of their faith and as the Scripture says, they will betray and hate one another. I believe the reason for this is that, we have many people in the church today, whose faith is in the church and not in Christ (You have left your first love). To many, church is just a big social gathering, but they are not thinking along the lines of what the early church went through being crucified, skinned alive, boiled in oil, fed to the lions, etc, etc. My point is, being persecuted and put to death for our faith in Christ is not on the minds and hearts of christianity today. They are far removed from what the early church went through and also what others are currently going through in other parts of the world. One of my prayers is from revelation regarding the great tribulation saints, which says:
“They did not love their lives so much as to shrink from death.”
I always pray this to God that He would give me a spirit like this, that I would always be ready to be pesecuted and put to death if that is my fate and I believe that this should in fact be everyone’s spiritual attitude who are in Christ. If you save your life you will lose it and I believe that this is exactly the attitude that these people will have when they betray and hate one another. They will love their lives more than Christ and seek to save their lives by turning away, but in doing so, sacrificing their eternal lives. For whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake and the gospels will gain it.
I think this mark will be a short issue for Christians.
Think about it.
If we cannot buy or sell, that includes WATER !!!!!!
How long can we survive without water?
Just a few days….or a week, depending on our health and some other conditions, like sweating, temperature, etc.
If we do not take the mark, we cannot buy water, and we will be dead in a week’s time anyhow.
Hi Marianne,
Hope all is well with you and yours. I just wanted to put my two cents in as usual. In regards to the saints who will be here for that time of God’s wrath, I don’t believe that they will be living down the street, living life as usual. Remember, the entire world will be under the control of this one man and the ten kings who will control each his own region. All authority will role down hill, beast, ten kings, military, govenors, mayors, police, etc. A saint during that time would not be able to remain in their house because they won’t be able to work and continue to pay their mortgage, because they will not receive the mark, which will be the only way to credit and debit ones account. I believe that the saints of that time will be hiding out, outside of society. Obviously, some of the saints will manage to make it through the entire seven years, since it is stated that the beast will make war against them and conquer them. Most of them will die not willing to worship the beast, his image and will not receive his mark. This would coincide with what Jesus regarding this time period when He said:
“For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now — and never to be equaled again. If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.” (Mt.24:21-22)
Not only that, but we know that right after the 2nd and 3rd bowls are poured out, which is the turning of the oceans and fresh water into literal blood, then we know that Jesus cannot be far behind, because as you said, no one can survive too many days without water. I wonder if that means that any stored bottled water will also be changed as well? One thing is for sure, by turning the oceans into blood, no one will be able to use the desalination machines. Maybe that is why the oceans are also changed.
hi Don
I guess saints would have to have their own wells for water. I don’t see how God would turn their own drinking water into blood. It seems that the righteous would somehow be provided for.
True and they would probably have to make camps near bodies of fresh water, such as lakes, rivers and streams. The world during that time will be chaotic for those who take their stand for Christ to say the least, as they will not be able to be apart of the world financial system or society as a whole. If those days were not shortened as Scripture dictates, then as Jesus said, no one would survive. And if those days wern’t shortened, there would be no one left to repopulate the millennial period in their mortal bodies. No Gentiles anyway. For in regards to those last days, Isaiah prophecied the following:
“I will make man scarcer than pure gold, more rare than the gold of Opir.” (Isa.13:12)
John mentions those who come out of the great tribulation period as a great multitude in white robes that no one could count, which would lead one to believe that the beast will probably have warehouses set up for mass beheadings (Rev.20:4).
God help us to be like the good man of the house who stays awake so that the theif can’t break into his house taking him by surprise and like the brides maids that always have oil ready for our lamps.
Don:
I posted a note over on
for you, but I didn’t think you might go over to that page. It’s there anyway. There’s a video on “Corporatism” I was going to post this entry with that page, but since I didn’t think you would look at what I posted or said, I’ll post here.
It’s too long to copy the whole thing. So if you want to read it you have to go to the web site.
[link deleted by request]
“One World Order”
The
Beast
Has Risen
The Federal Emergency Management Administration (FEMA) was created in 1979 under Presidential Memorandum 32 authored for President Carter by Prof. Samuel P. Huntington, a Harvard professor and former FEMA Advisory Board chairman. Huntington wrote the
“Seminal Peace for the Trilateral Commission”
in the mid 70’s, in which he criticized democracy and economic development as outdated ideas. As co-author of the book,
“Crisis in Democracy”
the professor said:
“We have come to recognize that there are potential desirable limits to economic growth. There are also potentially desirable limits to the indefinite extension of political democracy. A government which lacks authority will have little ability short of cataclysmic crisis to impose on its people the sacrifices which may be necessary”
Revelation 13:8
And ALL that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world
Foreword
“If you do not believe there is a conspiracy, you are stupid”
Texxe Mars
Jer:11:9:
And the LORD said unto me, A conspiracy is found among the men of Judah, and among the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
Ezek:22:25:
There is a conspiracy of her prophets in the midst thereof, like a roaring lion ravening the prey; they have devoured souls; they have taken the treasure and precious things; they have made her many widows in the midst thereof.
In the following material you will find that there was indeed a serious problem with the Y2K hoax of the year 2000.
While most Christians were alarmed and attempted to make ready for the international call of Chaos, and the scramble to purchase food rations as well as life sustainable equipment, many were shouting that the world as we have known it for six thousand years, was about to end. “The Plan” was beginning it’s final stage of world dominance. The President of the United States, Bill Clinton commissioned a new Y2k Czar, Koskinen to implement this new global monetary and government order, identification system.
It was a scheme of simple crisis management.
“Order out of Chaos”
My family and I were a family of those who chose to leave our lives to the hands of the Lord Jesus Christ.
January 1, 2000 rolled around and there was no catastrophe as was described by the Washington D.C. alarmist and their call for billions of dollars worldwide to be pumped into the infrastructure to repair the so-called Y2K, I began to understand there was much more to our governments desire to get into the international computer systems.
This was a manufactured example of
” Order out of Chaos”
Many Christians were easily deceived. Many infiltrated churches who have embraced false teaching from the leaders that cause them to err, fell for this scheme and continue to be lulled by the hypnotic trance of promised utopia.
I have discovered that international companies as well as national and local, banking, commercial, agriculture, transportation, communications, energy, etc.. have began to change their corporate logos to this Babylonian Identity marking system. Some unaware, while others fully understanding their allegiance to the coming false Christ.
Make no mistake and simply shrug this information off as another of those who has the rights to all knowledge, because you will be absolutely wrong.
This is indeed the Mark of the Beast. Behold, let no man deceive you.
Transfused and searching for a hit of the new bliss.
The idea is to connect the entire population to the world wide Gorenet. If the country is third world without personal finance ability, then by any means provide the service at alternate routes. Once the majority of people are being intravenously transfused, fed by need, hooked up, then all that need to be accomplished is to change monetary systems and transactions of buying and selling. The companies and individuals which have accepted this system, already acknowledge “The Plan”, these will survive a planned worldwide orchestrated economic disaster. Those who have not been offered to share in the spoils of the New World System will be neglected the right to transfuse their products and services. Many will become forced to either accept the terms or deny the right of existence. Those who understand the infallible truth of the word of God will forfeit their right to exist in this system of Satan. If you feel this to be a little 5th dimension, stick around for a while, for the battle is against the principalities and powers of darkness in high places and has just began the final stages of God’s written prophecy.
This Identifying mark or symbolism goes back thousands of years to Babylon and the gods which were worshipped at the tower of Ba’al. Nimrod and his wife Semiramis which then was dispersed into all the world by God the Most High and into Egypt where this Babylonian trinity became Osiris Ra the sun god and his wife-sister Isis and their virgin born son Horus, the counterfeit trinity of Satan’s little earthly family. Following are just some companies who have willingly taken the mark of this worldwide computer system which has been based upon the Babylonian system of Baal worship. A beast of a system, which will be, controlled by the New “One World Order” elite. If you understand and follow the words of the Testimony of our Lord Jesus Christ, you will be able to see with open eyes what is about to befall the world and Churchianity. If you understand this, understand the deception of the Jesuit devised and implanted Rapture for Churchianity scheme before the appointed seventh trumpet call. Have you fallen for this deception?
John 8:47
He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
John 10:1-2-3-4-5
Verily, verily I say unto you, he that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a theif and a robber. But he that entereth in by the door, is the shepherd of the sheep. To him the porter openeth, and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. And when he putteth fourth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
Understand how they are calling the children of God the Most High into Judaic Talmudic/ Babylonian /Egyptian pagan Cabalist Baal worship. And how the churches of America are rushing to embrace this so-called Judeao-Christianity Churchianity ecumenical movement.
Understand how they (Mystical Cabalist) intend to announce their false messiah into the world. Their beloved Lord, Baal.
Understand how to identify this false messiah, Ben David. This false messiah which will be a Liar who will call himself a Jew but truly a son of the synagogue of Satan who forfeited his right as a chosen child of God.
Understand that the son of perdition’s father is perdition himself.
See that he will be that man, that King of Tyrus who will rule over the congregation of the sides of the North of the Tribe of Dan at Mount Sion in Assyria. See how the world is slowly accepting Mount Sion’s teachings, instead of God’s chosen temple mount, Mount Zion’s. Find that the Mount Hermon/ Hermes/Sion sits exactly @ the 33 Degree paralell. Understand that George Bush and George W. Bush are both Cabalist and both Babylonian Egyptian Masonic Cabalist of the 33 Degree.
Understand that the false god man Nimrod (Ba’al) whose granfather Ham (Hermes) was the man which Mount Hermon (Mount Hermes) was named.
Understand why the tribe of Dan was not named of the 12 tribes of Israel whose each tribe there will be 12,000 sealed in their foreheads by the seal of God. Mannaseh, replaced this king of the north, this king of the uttermost parts of the north of Israel of the tribe of Dan and Mount Sion.
Mannaseh was indeed a gentile tribe, but hush, don’t tell anyone.
Understand why it is essential for them the followers of Ba’al-Hermes, Cush, Nimrod, Osiris Ra who are attempting to acquire every Bible publishing company in the world and destroy our Lord’s gospel. Understand why the Virgin Birth is quietly being taken out of Bible text. When they announce their False Christ into the world and the unlearned, might question the virgin birth. When they will report
the writing interpretation of the Virgin Birth was a text mistake. The writing of Sion and Zion was a mistake, when they pave the way for a false Christ born of a woman, who they will report is from the bloodline of King David.
Keep in mind, Jesus has the keys to David, and none other.
Understand why they have began to revert to the teachings of the law of Moses in the Christian church and the blowing of the Shofar horns. Understand what the apostle Paul was saying then as well as now in his letter to the Galatians.
Understand that there is absolutely no such thing as Judeo-Christianity, the two are irreconcilable.
Understand how they have fallen from truth, into the whore of Babylon and are now rejecting the word of Jesus and in unrighteousness of deceivableness, forsake the truth and have been given over so that they should believe lies and perish.
Understand how Satan has pointed man’s attention to Catholicism as the culprit, in order to fool the world. However understand that the Papacy was infiltrated hundreds of years ago and is now a puppet of the Cabal.
Understand that it was the daughter of Israel (Jerusalem) in whose place it was that the Prophets and the saints have been killed and no other city on earth was responsible. Yes that Daughter of Israel, God’s wife, of whom he sent the groom, but the bride rejected the Lord and whored after Baal. She has caused every nation on earth to follow her in her whoredom, and now American Churchianity is pulling back the covers to join in this intercourse with Satan.
Understand how this system came to be while man became apostate and complacent and un-watching as well as uncaring. Rich and in need of nothing, blind and in need of eyesalve, ever depending upon others to feed them deceptions of the whore.
Many have taught that the mark of the beast would be the digital angel chip. A microchip that would be implanted into the layers of the skin, to control a cash-less global monetary system.
I believe this system or chip will be implemented someday, however the Mark is clearly the Mark of his name. (false-Christ) (false messiah) (Baal) (Satan) the illuminated Beast.
I personally have had a tattoo marking into my skin. The Tattoo goes into several layers of skin and is almost impossible to have removed. I believe the Mark will be visible for detection by the eye, for easy control of the masses.
And I believe that the microchip implant will follow this identifying mark and soon.
I believe that after you understand the rapid widespread use of this new identifying system, you will begin to see the mark of the beast, circulating everywhere on the globe. Watch as your local area companies began taking this mark. Watch CNN where is is rampant and “do not be deceived”.
Consider why there are now as many dates of the rapture set, as there are apostate Christians who have, and are, falling away from the truth as it is written, and are led by calculated mathematical Cabalistic Mystical teachings in which they have accepted, in order that they may set these dates of err and destruction. All the while those who are smug and rich in the respect of God, cannot see what is in front of them at this moment.
The companies who have already accepted the mark will be insured against the coming orchestrated global financial collapse which may be staged soon. Americans are already accepting, never understanding, never seeing as, they have purged God’s written and infallible word from their hearts.
Most Americans cannot even give the names of their immediate ancestors, great grandfathers, or their fathers. It is no small wonder how we have rejected the truth of the actual history of man but accepted any theory of garbage from the media who controls mans every daily thought process.
We are simply told the lie
“My children shall perish for the lack of knowledge”
When God actually and clearly said
“My Children shall be DESTROYED because they have rejected knowledge”
Never understanding that perish and DESTROYED are different as night and day.
This research has taken hundreds of hours and covers the history of mankind and the gods which man predominantly worshipped, aside from the living God of Heaven. This mark goes all the way back to the Babylonian tower of Baal. When our living God dispersed the worshippers to the ends of the earth, of course you will see how many hardened hearts took this worship into all the new lands in all new tongues.
One of these lands was the two lands of Egypt, lower and upper Egypt. When the Romans and Greeks overcame the Egyptians, they also took these gods into their lands as well as the land which God promised to the children of Israel through their leaders.
“The leaders cause the children to err”
Keep in mind, even after the miracles God were performed before their very eyes, as soon as Moses went to collect the Law on Mount Sinai, they began immediately to worshipping these gods, even after the Father delivered them from the oppression of Pharaoh.
After many centuries..
Hi Kittii,
I got your note and read that post on that site, as much as I could stand of it anyway. I will be honest with you, he rambled on and on and never got to the point of what he was claiming. Can you imagine that if salvation was based on everyone knowing the information that he listed, there would be no one saved. Nevertheless, I made some notes in regards to some of the things that he listed:
1. In regards to the controversy as to whether the resurrection and catching away takes place at pre, mid or post tribulation, my faith is not based on the timing of it. My faith is based on Jesus Christ shedding His blood for me on the cross, being burried and resurrecting on the third day. Therefore, the timing of the resurrection and catching away does not control my faith. Per my personal studies, which are completely based on God’s word, I believe that we, the faithful in Christ, are not appointed to suffer God’s wrath, which is meted out in the form of the seals, trumpets and bowls. But, if I should find myself here when the antichrist makes his covenant with Israel for that seven year period, then I would know him immediately and my purpose would be the same and that is, to keep my testimony of Jesus Christ and the gospel. These wacked out People have this idea that if the resurrection and catching away doesn’t take place in the time frame that people have believed in, then they will be deceived and fall away from the faith, which is rediculous! A true Christian’s faith is based on Christ’s finished work on the cross, not on when the resurrection and catching away takes place. If there are people with that mind set, they are not true Christian’s, because if something like that was able to turn a person away, then their faith is truly not in Christ. And there are many people out there that have allowed the timing of things to dictate their faith and they call themselves the “Deconverted.” The bottom line is, we who belong to Jesus Christ, should always be ready to be persecuted and even die for His name sake and the word of God, regardless of when His promises are fulfilled. That said, regardless of all that this person wrote, all I have to do is to continue going from faith to faith in Jesus Christ, continue to love all people with the love of Christ and look forward to His promises right up to the day I die. And in the course of that time, if I should see this mark required in either my right hand or forehead for the sake being able to buy or sell, then I will reject it because I belong to God and I know what He has to say about this mark.
2. The mark is not something that is going to be introduced secretly. The mark is what I call “The proverbial line being drawn in the sand.” Reason being is, when the mark becomes manditory, it will force each individual to make his or her own choice, receive it to save ones life or reject it and be prepared to be persecuted and to be killed because of your stand for Christ. The mark is a dividing factor. Those whose names that were not written in the book of life before the world began, will receive the mark and worship the beast. Those whose names that were written in the book of life before the world began, will not love their lives so much as to shrink away from death, but they will be ready and willing to be persecuted and to be killed for their testimony of Christ and the gospel. To receive or not to receive the mark will be a personal, wilfull decision for every individual.
3. According to my studies and when I say my studies, I mean everything that I have garnered from God’s word alone. The woman who rides the beast is Rome and her false religious system. Babylon has never been known as the city that sits upon seven hills. Also, to cement in the fact that Rome is the city that the angel is talking about, he tells John the following:
“The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.” (Rev.17:18)
So, the woman who rides the best is identified as the city that rules over the kings of the earth. At the time that the angel was giving John this information, Rome was the city that ruled over the kings of the earth and not Babylon and is also the city that sits upon seven hills. These people that write these kinds of posts are just sensationalists! There is another clue in regards to the woman not being the literal city of Babylon that people fail to recognize and that has to do with what will be written on the forehead of the woman:
Mystery
Babylon the Great
The Mother of Prostitutes
And of The Abominations of
The Earth
You see the word “Mystery” in the title? That word is translated from the Greek “Mysterion,” which basically means “hidden thing, secret, mystery.” The city of Babylon, as well as their religious practices were not a mystery, since it was a well know city. The meaning of this mystery is that, most of the false religious, pagan practices that originated from the original city of Babylon can be found in the practices of Roman Catholicism. For example, whenever you see the image of Mary holding the baby Jesus, this is really representing Simeramis and Tamuz. Mary has been given the title by the vatican counsels as “Queen of Heaven,” which was also the title given to Simeramis. In case you don’t who simeramis was, she was the wife of Nimrod king of Babylon, who was also her son. Mary has also been given the title “Mother of God” and Simeramis also held that title. Mary is said to be a perpetual virgin, which the Ephesian goddess “Artemis” was also know for. The reason that the woman is called “Mystery Babylon” is because within her, many of those false, pagan practices can be found in Rome and her false Religious system fits the bill. I call Roman Catholicism “The biggest false religious system claiming to be of Christ, and yet hiding right out in plain sight.” Did you also know that Mary has also been deemed “Co-redeemer” and “Co-Saviour?” Just to be clear, Mary was a blessed woman, used of God to bring Jesus Christ into the world, but she cannot answer prayers, she cannot distribute grace, nor did she redeem us by her shed blood, etc, etc. The reason that we find all of these Babylonian pagan practices within Roman Catholicism is because, when emporor Constantine of Rome deemed Christianity as the offical religion of Rome in 312 AD, all of the false religious practices were going on in Rome were intertwined with Christainity, so that the Roman version of Christianity became polluted, which is why we see the practices of Roman Catholism differing from the true faith. Jesus said that anyone who wanted to be greatest in the kingdom of heaven must be least of all and servant of all and that we are all brothers on the same level. While Roman Catholicism is a hirerarchy, pope, cardinals, bishops, etc, etc. Roman Catholism is that woman that rides the beast and she is going to be and is that false religious system that will be used by the beast, with the false prophet (one of the popes to come) perfoming miracles, signs and wonders all to give credibilty to the beast who will be proclaiming to be God.
4. This person who posted this put down Israel, but God is not done with Israel. He still has promises to her. The seven years prophesied in Daniel is the completion of the prophecy of seventy sevens that were determined upon Israel, which has yet to be completed.
“Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and you holy city to finish transgresion, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness.” (Dan.9:24)
Sixty nine of those seven year periods were fulfilled when Christ was crucified:
“Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven sevens, and sixty two sevens.”
Seven sevens = 49 years and 62 sevens = 434. 434 years plus 49 years = 483 years. Whoops! We are missing seven years. Oh wait, there they are!
“He will confirm a covenant with many for one seven. In the middle of the seven he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.”
Sixty nine of the sevens were completed at the crucifixtion of Christ (The Anointed one will be cut off). What about the last seven year period? It will begin when this antichrist makes his covenant for one seven, which is still future. This begins the tribulation period. This last seven year period will be the completion of the prophecy that the angel gave to Daniel to “finish transgresion, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness and to bring in everlasting righteousness.”
Also, God has reserved for Himself, 144,000 male Israelites that the woman (Israel) gives birth to. These 144,000 are those who will be sealed and will come to the knowledge that Jesus Christ is the Messiah, ergo gives birth to. God is not done with Israel, nor has forgotten about her.
5. The great pyramid of Giza in Egypt is not of Satan, but is infact mentioned in the word of God as God’s testimony in stone in the midst of Egypt:
“In that day there will be an altar to the Lord in the heart of Egypt, and a monument to the Lord at its border. It will be a sign and witness to the Lord Almighty in the land of Egypt.”
So you see, his information is incorrect. This monument, which is the great pyramid in the midst of Egypt belongs to the Lord and not Satan.
6. No one will know who the man of lawlessness is until he fulfills what is written of him, beginning with making his covenant with Israel for one seven, then a fatal head wound, which will be a mock resurrection for the purpose of deceiving the masses, then his proclamation that he is god, with the false prophet performing those counterfeit signs, miracles and wonders, which also add to the deception. That’s why when people tell me, “Oh, every generation thought it was somebody else, Nero, Hitler, Stalin, Reagan, etc, etc, I say to them, the only way to identify the antichrist is by the person who fulfills the prophecies conerning him, beginning with that covenant of seven years, followed by the rest of the prophecies.
If we stick with Jesus Christ and the word of God we cannot be mislead…..
So the fatal head wound would be a literal fatal head wound? Not a particular government or country having ended then coming back..such as Turkey for example? Just heard a theory about Turkey being the one who had the “fatal head wound” and is now returning to full power…
Actually, the head wound has already been healed guys.
Remember the prophecy code – a woman is a church and a beast is a political empire (remember the beasts of Daniel? – Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece etc.)
Don is right about the catholic church – she is the woman and the beast she rides is the Vatican which was taken down by Napoleon in 1798 and restored to power by Mussolini in 1929.
So if The beast is the Vatican and as Don has indicated, the false prophet will be the (next) pope, then the mark will be issued by him and the church.
So my question is, why does the church choose to use the banking system to force worship of the beast (itself)?
Doesn’t it stand to reason that if the whore is false religious practices, then the mark would be an attempt to force it’s members to engage in such practices?
And if they were to choose one particular practice as the mark, would it not be a big one – such as the breaking of a commandment?
In the old days we might expect this to be idol worship or false gods but that would be too obvious nowadays.
But what about the most commonly broken commandment in modern Christianity – the fourth – Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy. As Don correctly mentioned, the practice of Sunday worship was initiated when Justinian merged the Roman paganism with Christianity and kept the Roman Sun-worshipping day as the official day of worship. Unfortunately it was never corrected during the Protestant reformation and so the daughter churches of Catholicism are still plagued by mystery Babylon practices. These are the harlots of the whore.
Doesn’t it make sense that the beast will someday require mandatory Sunday worship? Wouldn’t the pope issue such a statement? Well pope John Paul II already published such a statement in 2002. He just could never enforce it.
But some countries in Europe are already doing so, sort of. For example in France, you can not open a business (buy or sell) unless you open on Saturday and close on Sunday. This policy is in direct response to the catholic church.
There is the beginning of the mark for you.
When Christ returns he will destroy Babylon before marrying his bride (the true church). That means getting rid of all pagan practices including Sunday worship. (You don’t think He will change the sabbath to Sunday, do you?)
Is it more likely that God would want to destroy the banking system or a widespread pagan practice in His churches? Do you really think that the Book of Revelation is all about a computer chip? And what other prophecy has ever NOT been about God’s people, but rather a warning to another religion that they will be destroyed? Prophecy has always been to God’s people, about God’s people and how they have fallen short of God’s expectations. Forget about the Muslims – God doesn’t care about other religions – they will be judged at the end of the millennium, they won’t need to be destroyed in order for Jesus to marry his church.
So when you look at it, the chipsters are the sensationalists here, making up an incredibly complex scenario of a world dictator and an unbelievably complex banking system. Nope. It will just be the next pope, given more power by the E.U. to enforce Sunday worship. And the whole Christian world will fall in line and follow the beast. Many will still be refusing to use the RFID chip, thinking they will be safe when the Antichrist arrives.
The mark is already here – it’s been here and already millions have been beheaded in the dark ages for not converting to the pagan day of worship. Some were even burned at the stake. When it comes back it may not be as severe as it was or as many people think it will be. The beheadings are probably a thing of the past and have nothing to do with modern day Islamic practices. In fact it is unlikely that a modern pope would ever decree a death sentence on anyone.
So when the time comes, just remember the sabbath, avoid Sunday worship and if you’re still not sure, put that chip thingy in your left hand.
Hello James,
I thought I might respond to some of the information within your post.
“So my question is, why does the church choose to use the banking system to force worship of the beast (itself)?
Doesn’t it stand to reason that if the whore is false religious practices, then the mark would be an attempt to force it’s members to engage in such practices?”
First of all, the true church will not be here during the time of the mark. Second, the woman, that is,the prositute, which will be that last day false religious system, will do exactly what you said above, and that being to force the people to receive that mark. One of the coming Pope’s will play the part of the false prophet and being that he, the pope, is the head of that false religious system, the people that are also following in that false religious system and who look up to the pope as their spiritual leader will wilfully receive that mark, especially when he begins to perform those signs, wonders and miracles. And when Scripture says that “He exercises all the authority of the first beast,” it means that, the pope (false prophet) will be doing all of those miracles and signs for the purpose of giving credibility to the beast who will be proclaiming himself to be god. Therefore, if you have the pope, who is the spiritual leader of over a billion people, who is performing miraculous signs and wonders and is exalting this other man as god, then you will have all of those who are faithful to the pope pulled in by that deception. The result will be that,the beast will have a billion plus false religious people in his hip pocket and all willing to receive his mark, because their spiritual leader will be condoning it.
Also, as I said, the reason for the mark is to receive worship. How? We already know that computer chips for different applications are presently being manufactured for subdermal use (under the skin). Some of those applications are for medical information, to identify prisoners, children and animals, but one of the applications is financial. And as I have said before, we are already seeing this application being used. The use of this application, which allows a person to debit their account via subdermal computer chip will continue to evolve to where we will start seeing people actually using this technology in place of the debit card. This way of debiting and crediting ones account will continue to escalate and continue to be used parallel with cash, checks, credit and debit cards up until the middle of that seven year period, when, at that time, the false prophet and the beast will make all the other forms of buying and selling obsolete, leaving only his mark to be able to perform credit and debit transactions via computer.
How is that worship? Because, it’s the beast’s mark and it will be the only way from that point on to be able to perform any kind of financial transaction, which is how he forces the inhabitants of the earth to receive it. If you have no mark, you can’t credit and debit your account and therefore, you can’t buy food, gas, pay your bills or anything else or even have a job for that matter. Without his mark, one would not be able to be apart of society and the only people who are not going to receive that mark will be the those last day tribulation saints. If you receive the mark, you are automatically aligning yourself with the beast, because it is “his” mark for one, and two, by receiving it, you would be making the statement that saving your own life would be more important than remaining faithful to God, knowing what the mark represents and who it belongs to.
The mark of the beast is not observing the Sabbath on Saturday. We as Christians are not even under the law for that to be an issue. We are saved by grace (divine, umerited favor) which means, you don’t deserve it, but you’ve got it. We are not under the written code, for no one will be justified by observing the works of the law. We are led by the Spirit of God and we follow Christ, who was the end of the law:
Colossians 2:13-15
“When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having [canceled the written code], with its [regulations], that was against us and that stood opposed to us; [he took it away, nailing it to the cross]. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross. Therefore, do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a SABBATH DAY.”
Ephesians 2:14-15
“For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its [commandments and regulations].”
If you are observing any festifal, specific day or anything that you perform as something that provides or maintains your salvation, then you are living under the law, not recognizing the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross. And that is, that He lived a perfect, sinless life on our behalf and fulfilled the law perfectly, nailing it to the cross, so that we are now lead by the Spirit of God. Just as Paul used this illustration of the law being our husband and stating that, as long as a man is alive, the woman is bound to her husband, but when he dies she is released from that contract. In the same way, the law being our husband, is dead and we are therefore free from that husband, being no longer obligated to it. Now we belong to another, Jesus Christ. Where there is no law, there is no transgression!
All I can say to those who believe tat the law of God has been revoked is “Good luck with that when Christ returns!”
If the law is repealed then there is no law about worshipping false God’s , so devil worship should be fine, especially if we don’t really mean it and it is only for survival purposes.
And explain these verses from Revelation 12 regarding the true church and Satan:
Rev 12:16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Sure sounds like God’s people still keep the commandments.
And again in Revelation 14 speaking of those being tormented for taking the mark:
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Looks like those who keep the commandments are immune from the plagues. Either the mark is a commandment or keeping them makes you immune from the mark.
Or maybe John never read Colossians or Ephesians and was misinformed when he wrote this.
And if you believe the “Left Behind” books and think you are given a free pass to heaven when all this comes to pass, think again. There is no rapture until Christ comes back to stay. If there was, the book would end early and skip to the end – the rest would be for non-believers, so why bother with it?
Sorry, but you will be here for the mark and you will want to choose wisely. Going to church every Sunday and then dieing of starvation will not get you salvation.
But don’t worry, the chip will never become the mark so you will not be killed for not taking it. Perhaps when the time comes you will look around and finally figure out what I’ve been saying has come true.
I’ll pray for that day.
James, when I say that we are not under the law, I am not conding sin. I don’t know why I have to explain this. The word of God is written on our hearts. We are led by the Holy Spirit. Our salvation is based on the shed blood of Jesus Christ. He lived a perfect, sinless life where we were on unable to, satisfying God’s require for a perfect life. Shall we continue in sin because we are free in Christ, God forbid! By following Christ, we fulfill the law. We are works in progress. We are not saved by doing works. That is, I must do this and this and this to maintain my salvation. I must observe the Sabbath on Saturday to maintain my salvation. If you’re thinking like that in any way shape or form, your not recognizing that Christ accomplished it completely for you and thereby, not giving him the recognition. As we follow Christ, we are being transformed into his image. Paul said, if you live according to the law, then you required to fulfill the whole law and if you break it anywhere, you’ve broken the whole thing. So, observing Sabbath on Saturday is just a sliver of the what the law is. You better observe the food law, the sacrificial law, the feasts of the law, etc, etc… I really don’t have to expound on this because Paul goes over grace vs the law in Romans, galatians and in other books as well. Here is my personal list of what Paul had to say about obseving the law:
Romans 3:19-20
Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be silenced and the whole world held accountable to God. Therefore not one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.
Romans 3:27-28
Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law.
Romans 4:4-5
Now when a man works, his wages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation. However, to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.
Romans 4:13-15
It was not through law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. For if those who live by law are heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless, because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.
Romans 7:1-6
Do you not know, brothers — for I am speaking to men who know the law — that the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives? For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage. So then, if she marries another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress, even though she marries another man. So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God. For when we were controlled by the sinful nature, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies, so that we bore fruit for death. But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.
Romans 10:4
Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.
Galatians 2:15-16
We who are Jews by birth and not ‘Gentile sinners’ know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.
Ephesians 2:14-15
For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations.
Colossians 2:13-15
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.
Hebrews 7:18-19
The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.
Hebrews 8:13
By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.
II Corinthians 3:6
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant — not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
Did I miss anything regarding the law vs grace? Do the rest of you guys understand what I am saying in regards to this issue of the law? There is an example of God’s word for those who are trusting in works, when Jesus says,
“Not everyone who calls me Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of God. They will say to me on that day, Lord didn’t we prophecy in your name and cast out demons in your name and do many miracles in your name?” And Jesus will say, “Depart from me you evil doers. I never knew you.”
What is happening here? The subject is, getting into the kingdom of God and these guys are coming to him and proclaiming to him the reasons of why they should be able to get in, their reasons being, didn’t we do this and didn’t we do this and didn’t we do that? Why can’t they come in? Becuase they are coming at jesus with works, that is, what they did. Performing works is the attempt to earn your way into heaven. Their’s and our reply should be “I thank you Lord that you alone accomplished salvation on my behalf by your perfect life in the flesh and the shedding of your blood.” He alone saves us and it no longer depends on man’s efforts –
Applications Continue to Grow for Applied Digital Solutions’ VeriPay; Baja Beach Club in Barcelona, Spain Employs RFID Technology for Cashless Payment System
PALM BEACH, Fla–(BUSINESS WIRE)–April 5, 2004–Applied Digital Solutions, Inc. (Nasdaq: ADSXD), an advanced technology development company, today announced that Baja Beach Clubs International had employed the VeriPay System, developed by Applied Digital’s VeriChip Corporation, at a night club in Spain.
Launched at a global security conference in November, 2003, the VeriPay System is a new syringe-injectable microchip implant for humans, designed to be used as a fraud-proof payment method for cash and credit-card transactions. The chip implant is an advance over credit cards and smart cards, which, absent biometrics and appropriate safeguard technologies, are subject to theft, resulting in identity fraud.
“We are the only company today offering human implantable ID technology,” said Scott R. Silverman, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of Applied Digital Solutions. “We believe the market opportunity for this technology is substantial, and high-profile successes such as in Spain will serve as catalysts for broader adoption.”
“The VeriPay chipping event was a huge success,” said Conrad K. Chase, Director of the Baja Beach Clubs International. “Everyone embraced the electronic payment application. My customers like the fact that they do not have to carry a credit card or ID card with them. With the VeriPay system, they no longer have to worry about their credit cards getting lost or stolen.”
About Applied Digital Solutions, Inc.
Applied Digital Solutions is an advanced technology development company that focuses on a range of early warning alert, miniaturized power sources and security monitoring systems combined with the comprehensive data management services required to support them. Through its Advanced Wireless unit, the Company specializes in security-related data collection, value-added data intelligence and complex data delivery systems for a wide variety of end users including commercial operations, government agencies and consumers. For more information, visit the company’s website at http://www.adsx.com .
Statements about the Company’s future expectations, including future revenues and earnings, and all other statements in this press release other than historical facts are “forward-looking statements” within the meaning of Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933, Section 21E of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, and as that term is defined in the Private Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Such forward-looking statements involve risks and uncertainties and are subject to change at any time, and the Company’s actual results could differ materially from expected results. The Company undertakes no obligation to update forward-looking statements to reflect subsequently occurring events or circumstances.
————————————————————————
FIRST DISCO-BAR THAT WILL INJECT VERICHIP ON CLIENTS! *PIC*
Rumor Mill News
Posted By: Spectator
Date: Tuesday, 6 April 2004, 7:32 p.m.
I have read about many fronts opened for to impose microchipping on people. First all starts with proposals to implant people that were forced to obey orders ( Proposed microchipping on US military ) or depend on the state institutions ( proposal for implant all the homeless ) even proposals for implant elderly people
As a sign of things to come, in March, 18th: Here, in Barcelona we had another front open: the recreational front, as an attempt to make “fashionable” the implant.
The Baja Beach Club disco/bar ( in the Olympic port, a great night
recreational area ) will be the first disco/bar in Spain that will implant
on his/her clients an injectable subcutaneous transponder that will give
them free access without documentation, pay the consummations and have access to the VIP room.
The inauguration of the method was presented by some famous people that were “microchipped”. That was shown in TV programs and shows.
Even more ominous were the declarations of the disco/bar owners, “The
chip will prevail in the future, because in those times the people will use
it as cash, obviating the need of a credit card.” I think that the first
stage of “microchipping” of people has reached our country; that is being launched to appeal to young people in first place.
Conrad Chase, The director of the Baja beach Disco-Bars ( There are more Baja Beach Discos in other countries, Netherlands, as an example ) is the responsible of the Verichip injection for his clients. He explained that a simple injection will implant this chip. This implant will be used for to charge money or automatically open the doors. “When the client is entering into the discotheque we will know who is and what is his/her account status.”
The injection will cost $ 153.
Don, I have read most of your posts, and I agree with most of what you write. Allow me to ask you a question.
In my heart, I have no intention of getting my head cut off. Do you think it is wrong for a person to defend themselves?
Answering as a mom, I say it is NOT wrong for a person to defend themselves and their children. G-d designed us in such a way that whenever we are threatened, something in us kicks in for the purpose of self-preservation. However, I am thinking that there will come a time when we have no choice but to “lay our lives down”, just as Christ laid his life down for us. Actually, we will be given the “choice”-choose Islam/Mark of the Beast and live or choose Jesus Christ and die. “choose this day whom you will serve”..
Hello again Leatherneck,
In regards to your question, I’m guessing that since you mention that you “have no intention of getting your head cut off” that you are referring to what is spoken of regarding those tribulation saints of Rev.20:4 that I mentioned, where John says: “I saw the souls of those who were beheaded.” I believe that we would have every right to try and escape that if possible, but in regards to fighting back, I am reminded of when Stephen was stoned and as he was dying, he said, “Lord do not hold this sin against them.” And Jesus of course was the main example when it states that He did not utter a word in His defence, but was silent like a Lamb before its shearer’s and became obediant to death. I believe that as believers in Christ, we should all be prepared and praying that God would give us a spirit that would count it the greatest honor to die for His name sake and for the gospel and that He would give us a spirit that would not love life so much as to shrink away from death. Why? Because for one thing, we are confident in our hope of forgiveness of sins through His shed blood and the promise of eternal life. In regards to those saints during the great tribulation it is written:
“If anyone is to go into captivity, into captivity he will go. If anyone is to be killed with the sword, with the sword he will be killed.” (Rev.13:9-10)
In other words, whatever the particular fate is of an individual during the time period of the beast and the false prophet, that is what they are going to suffer. If your fate is to be taken captive, then you will be taken captive, if is to be killed, then you will be killed. And the following verse is what our attitude should be in regards to this:
“This calls for patient endurance and faithfulness on the part of the saints.” (Rev.13:10)
Those believers in Christ during that last seven years and specifically during the last 3 1/2 years, when it is said that the beast makes war and conquers the saints, will most likely be hiding out and trying to avoid being captured as I am sure that we would also be doing. But, at the same time, I believe that they will be spirituallly prepared to be persecuted and killed for His name and the gospel once they have been caught.
As an example, if I was there during that time period, I would evade them as much as I could, but if and when I was caught, I would not fight back, but resign myself to God and to glorify Him by my death. After all, the reason that anyone during that time period would be dying, would be because they would be remaining faithful to Jesus and the gospel and thereby glorifying God. In fact, in whatever manner a saint dies during that time, it is most likely God’s design.
There are people right now, our brothers and sisters around the world who are currently being persecuted and put to death for His name sake and for the gospel, because freedom of faith is not tolerated in some countries like it is here, but that is going to change very soon.
I personally don’t believe that the church will be present during the time of the beast, the false prophet and the mark to worry about that, but as I said we should always be prepared for persecution and even death for His name sake and the gospel as Christian’s period.
Sorry for being so long winded, but that’s the way I am when it comes to the word of God. I hope I answered your question somewhere in there, ha!
He was willing to die for us and we should be willing to die for him and each other.
Hey Don,
Catching the end of the conversation-haven’t read leathernecks’ question yet….but when reading yours, I couldn’t help but think that the Beast is Islam? Is that a stupid question? They are the only ones that continue to stone and behead and have and still are “waging war” on what they call the infidels-but could also be the Saints… Thinking of Daniel Pearl, journalist and also Jewish.
And regarding Leatherneck, his name implies that he is a Marine-so he is trained to kill or be killed. This has been his fate in that he chose to be trained for that. As for me, I worry more about my sons. It is my hope that we are taken before this mess gets worse…heads right into more of Revelation.
Try not to get sucked into the idea that because radical Muslims still cut a few heads off now and then that these verses automatically apply to them. Do you really believe that Islam will conquer the world in the next 20 years or so? Would a true Muslim ever claim to be God (Allah?) Would a true Muslim ever try to force his people to worship him rather than Allah? 6 Muslim countries tried several times to overthrow tiny Israel several time and failed miserably. Can they now take on the U.S. and our allies and win? Of course not. No one person can or will.
As for the beheadings, they already took place in the dark ages when the new Christian church under the popes began to enforce the new pagan Sunday worship forced by the Roman emperor Justinian who combined the two religions. Over 100 million saints were killed mostly by beheading Whig was the common method of execution back then. You know, if not for these new extremists, the mention of beheading might otherwise bring people to mind of the French revolution and the guillotine. Or a few wives of Henry the eighth in England.
So forget the Muslims, they are not a factor in God’s end-time Revelation.
It will be about God’s people and their sins, just as it has been from the beginning of the bible. God will not punish you for buying food. You will be punished for believing His laws are no longer enforceable and that you can break his commandments at will, as long as you still believe in the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
Beware of false interpretations that seem to indicate that the laws of God have been cancelled. Look into them deeper and you will find they are still in effect and the world will soon be tested in this regard.
If you don’t believe me then just sit back and wait for the rapture and see what happens.
And good luck.
There is no such thing as radicl Muslims, or radicl Islam. There are those who follow Mohammad, the true Islamists, and then there are the Apostates who do not follow Mohammad.
Apostates are truly the extremists.
You can call them anything you want – its just a matter of semantics, but I’m sure you know who I’m talking about.
And if by Mohammed, you mean the Koran, I have read the book and everything the extremists believe in is written in the Koran. They are not making stuff up, just taking it literally.
The book itself is the root of the problem.
Hello James,
In response to this, I don’t believe that it will be the Muslims, but whatever authorities and peoples who are under the authority of the beast and the false prophet, which will be the entire world. Those great tribulation saints will in fact be beheaded just as the word of God states:
“I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge,. And I saw the souls of those who had been[beheaded] because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands.” (Rev.20:4)
This beheading is done against those saints who are here during the last 3 1/2 years up until Christ returns. How do we know that this is still a future even? Because of the the fact that it states that they will be beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and the word of God and because they would not worship the beast and his image and would not receive his mark on their foreheads or hands. We know that this is still future because, when Jesus returns to the earth to set up his millennial kingdom, he has the beast and the false prophet thrown into the lake of fire. Therefore, the beast, his image and the mark are all in close proximity to Christ’s return. And I’m pretty sure that we can all agree that Christ has not yet returned.
As far as the law being cancelled goes, what do you do with all of those verses that I have listed stating that fact? Paul is very clear on this subject and you seem to ignore it. When he says that no one will be justified by observing the law, what do you do with that? Ignore it? When he says, Christ is the end of the law and that the law was obolished being nailed to the cross, do you ignore what is being said? Why would Christ come and shed His blood, so that we could continue in a covenant that no one was keeping nor could keep? He said that the law was added because of transgressions, but it could never save anyone. Why would there need to be another covenant if the covenant of the law could save you? Regarding the law, God’s word says:
The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.
And what about the following verse:
It was not through law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. For if those who live by law are heirs, faith has no value and the promise is worthless, because law brings wrath. And where there is no law there is no transgression.
Abraham was credited with righteousness because he believed God, period! It doesn’t say that he was credited with righteousness because he believed God and observed the law, and went and fed the poor and did this and that and the other thing.
It is by grace you have been saved, through faith– and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God– not by works, so that no one can boast.
Since Jesus provided salvation for us, we cannot boast by claiming any works that we do for the purpose of obtaining or maintaining salvation. He accomplished it in his flesh and there are no works that I need to or can do or would be acceptable in order to add to what Jesus already perfectly completed.
James, if you continue to think that your observance of the Sabbath is aiding or maintaining your salvation, you will be just like those of whom Jesus said:
“Many will say to me on that day, Lord, Lord didn’t we prophecy in your name and cast out demons in your name and do many miracles in your name? And he will say, ‘depart from me you evil doers. I never knew you!.”
Lord, Lord, but didn’t we keep the Sabbath on Saturday?
Basically, they and you are saying the same thing. Their prophecying, casting out demons and doing miracles, and you observing the Sabbath on Saturday, which are works, these are their and your reasons to Jesus to be able to enter into the kingdom of God, when He alone should be acknowledged for providing our salvation.
Hey Don,
Coincidence? This evening my sister’s caregiver, Marie, was telling me about the sermon on Sunday-she is catholic. The preacher talked about a “dream” he had where he went to heaven and saw “some of you there” but I will not give the names…and then on the other side, he saw Hell and everyone suffering and he saw “some of you there” but I will no give the names…he ended the sermon by saying that everyone needed to be a good person and do the right thing to make sure you get into heaven. Wow! I remembered what you wrote Don and I told Marie about the verse that you quoted, ““Many will say to me on that day, Lord, Lord..” Marie remembered that verse but didn’t understand it and neither did I until you explained it! She really thought that it was only by our works that we could get into heaven. I was able to explain to her that we our works had nothing to do with it. I remembered the guy on the cross next to Jesus who was a criminal-no one knows what crimes he committed but he was there to be sentenced to death for something terrible he had done. At the last minute, he asked Jesus to forgive him and Jesus told him that he would be with him in paradise! I pray that Marie understood what I was saying in that it is ONLY through Jesus Christ that we are able to be anywhere near heavens’ gate-we have to be covered in his blood so that G-d can even look our way. It has nothing to do with how “good” we think we are-it is still not good enough-this was hard for Marie to hear, but I am hoping that she thinks upon it! I love Marie! She is my sister’s caregiver and has been a blessing not just to my sister but to all of us. I want Marie to be in heaven with all of us! I told her that even tho Sharon won’t “need” her once she is in heaven, I would still drag her with me If need be..she laughed…LOL
And remembering the guy on the cross next to Jesus….I just realized that Jesus never asked him if he had kept the ten commandments, the sabbath, the jewish holidays etc…Found in Luke 23 NIV “39One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Christ? Save yourself and us!”
40But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence? 41We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”
42Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”
43Jesus answered him, “I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise.”
Praise be to God! I love hearing this! Yes, you are quite right, we could never be good enough nor meet God’s level of righteousness to enter into eternal life, but Jesus did and He did it for us, thanks be to God. I will definitely keep Maria in prayer. Isn’t this in fact what fellowship is about, sharing the truth of God’s word? And that is a blessing to you as well, because you shared the truth with her. Some plant, others water, but God makes the increase. And regarding the man that was crucified next to Jesus, (I’m betting he was on the right side of Jesus) you are correct as well, in that, he was saved at the last minute, by faith alone. For he could not from the cross and be baptised or perform any good work. As it is written:
“That if you confess with your mouth, ‘Jesus is Lord,’ and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” (Rom.10:9)
Notice that there is nothing in that verse about being saved by performing works or observing the law?
I’m happy to hear about Maria and I hope that God will give you the opportunity to be a witness of Christ and the word of God to her again.
Remember, the angels in heaven rejoice over just one sinner who repents.
Hey Don,
I’m familiar with the verses you quoted earlier, I studied them many years ago. It turns out you can’t take these verses out of context, you must study the entire chapter to see what the author is trying to say, which is often the opposite of these verses.
There is also much symbolism involved and some Jewish history is needed to understand the chapters.
You have said many times you never read any other interpretations and only go by what you read in the bible, then make your own conclusions. I do the opposite. I read many different sources and then filter out what does not fit properly with the rest of scripture.
Paul is especially hard to read as most scholars agree he had a personal agenda and that he incorrectly assumed Christ was about to return any day and tried to prepare his readers for that moment by carefully choosing his words to make his points.
You must remember that the letters that Paul wrote were not inspired directly by the Holy Spirit so we have to read them in the proper context. Failure to do that can result in wrong interpretations.
If Jesus’ purpose was to cancel the ten commandments he would have made an example by not bothering to follow them but we all know he kept every one of them. He also would have taught in the gospel that the law is to be voided upon his death, but he did not.
God made a very big deal when he wrote the commandments in stone – twice. It is my opinion that if he were to want them to be erased he would have made it quite clear to the apostles before he left. He would not have left hints in the personal writings of Paul of all people.
And I have often quoted the verses in Revelation that indicates that the people who do not have the mark are those that follow the commandments. These words are from Jesus himself in the only book of the New Testament given directly by God.
No matter if you believe what Paul or others may have said, the word of Jesus trumps them in the end.
Much of what you’ve said in this post is right on, but as far as the mark goes, you’ve gone over to the dark side. You’ve sided with the Hollywood sensationalists, the “Left Behind” crowd. The sad thing is, most of the (Christian) world will follow you.
James,
There is absolutely no mistaking what Paul is conveying in any of the verses that I provided. Most of the letter to the Galatian’s is regarding the law vs grace, as well as many verses in Romans and other books, as Paul speaks on this subject a lot. I don’t take things out of context, because I have to make sure that what I am telling other people is God’s truth. Paul means exactly what he wrote. He’s talking about the law, the written code with its ordanance’s, commands, feasts, week Sabbaths, seven year Sabbaths, Jubilee Sabbaths, New Moons, food, sacrifices, circumcision, etc, etc…
I want everybody who has been reading these posts to take notice that James is making the claim that the letters written by the apostle Paul were not inspired by the Holy Spirit and to take notice of how the word of God proves this claim to be wrong!
Now, regarding what you said below, you crossed the line in saying that Paul’s writing is not God inspired!
James said:
“You must remember that the letters that Paul wrote were not inspired directly by the Holy Spirit so we have to read them in the proper context. Failure to do that can result in wrong interpretations.”
What you said is not the truth whatsoever! If Paul’s letters were not inspired by God, then they would not be included as part of God’s word. Let’s see if the word of God backs up what you just said by observing what Paul wrote in regards to where he is getting his information from:
“I want you to know, brothers, that the gospel I preached is not something that man made up. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.” (Gal.1:11-12)
I’d say that if he received it directly from the Lord, then that would make it God inspired, wouldn’t you say so? Let’s see what else Paul says:
“All Scripture is [God breathed] and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.”
(2Tim.3:16-17)
All Scripture is God breathed, how about that!
Paul had direct revelations and visions from the Lord throughout his life, so we know that what he is writing is God inspired. Notice what paul says regarding those revelations and visions:
“I know a man in Chirst who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know–God knows. And I know that this man–whether in the body or apart form the body I do not know, but God knows– was caught up to paradise. He heard things that man is not permitted to tell. I will boast about a man like that, but I will not boast about myself, except about my weaknesses. Even if I should choose to boast, I would not be a fool, because I would be speaking the truth. But I refrain, so no one will think more of me than is warranted by what I do or say. To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in my flesh, a messenger from Satan, to torment me.”
(2Cor.12:2-7)
Now, Paul in speaking of himself as that man who was caught up to the third heaven and talks about the surpassingly great revelations and visions that he received directly from the Lord while there. And to keep him from becoming conceited because of these great revelations and visions, the Lord sent a messenger of Satan to torment him in order to keep him from becoming pridefull. Add that to the fact that, he says that he received his knowledge by revelation from Jesus Christ and I’d have to say that the things that Paul wrote about in all of his letters were in fact God inspired, just as Paul said they were and that goes same for all of the books and writers in the new testament. God’s Holy Bible, which consist of all these books of the old and new testament were writen by men as they were moved to do so by the Holy Spirit. To say otherwise of anything written in the Scriptures, is to not believe that this is the inspired word of God. Everything that Paul wrote is most certainly the divine, inspired word of God. I don’t know who you are listening to, but you need to get away from them and anchor yourself to the word of God only, because you are being deceived!
Here is further proof that Paul’s writing is in fact God inspired:
“[According to the LORD’s OWN WORD], we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not preced those who have fallend asleep.” (1Thes.4:15)
Now, of course Paul is speaking here of the resurrection and catching away, but I listed this verse because Paul writes “According to the Lord’s own word,” which means that, Paul is repeating what he received directly from Christ. So, how can you say that Paul’s writing was not inspired by God?
I’ll throw another proof in since I’m already contending for the truth of God’s word.
“Listen, I tell you a mystery. We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed–in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpert will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.”
You see that word “Mystery” in the beginning of the verse, that word is translated from the Greek word “Mysterion,” which means:
a hidden thing, secret, mystery, which means that Paul is revealing something that was previously not known to anyone. Who do you think revealed this mystery to Paul? As he wrote in 1Thes.4:15 regarding this same subject, is was “According to the Lord’s own Word.”
Here is one more:
“Fourteen years later I went up agian to Jerusalem, this time with Barnabas. I took Titus along Also. I went in response to a revelation and set before them the gospel that I preached among the Gentiles.” (Gal.2:1-2)
Here again, we have Paul stating that he went up to Jerusalem in response to a revelation. In other words, the revelation was given to Paul by the Lord to go up to Jerusalem.
As I said, these books of the old and new testament are all God inspired and men wrote as they were moved by the Holy Spirit. To say anything different, is to not believe in the truth of God’s word. You need to repent and get grounded back in the word of God, because that is where all the truth and answers are and not from the teachings of so-called theologians, scholars and skeptics. You’re sounding just like Hang Hennigraff, who says that the book of revelation falls under the status of Hyperbole, which means that it is exagerated and not to be taken literally, which would be saying that God doesn’t mean what he is saying, that he is imbelishing what he wrote. yet, the word of God says “God is not a man to lie, nor the Son of Man to repent.” What God says, he will do! If he says that a third of the earth is going to be burnt up, then a third of the earth will be burnt up. If he says that many people are going to die from drinking the water, then many people are going to die. If he says that he will turn the oceans and fresh water into literal blood, then that is exactly what will happen and you can count on it! These people are going to be surprised when they see God bringing to pass exactly what he wrote in his word.
to lyndsey, james, don,
The law is not canceled. The only part of the law that was done away with is the sacrificial system for atonement. (“There remains no more sacrifice for sins”)
The moral law and feasts are still in effect. However, the punishment for sin is now covered by the blood IF there is repentance.
“We are under grace now, instead of law,” means that this is how we are justified and saved. We are still expected to behave ourselves.
Even Paul said “are we to sin that grace can abound?” then he said “God forbid!” The moral law defines sin, and sin is still sin.
The comment about the thief on the cross is not representative of all Jesus said and did. Jesus also questioned the young man if he obeyed the commandments, and forgave sin while healing, indicating that sin (disobedience to the law, and the law itself) was still a reality and needed to be addressed. Jesus did not preach a “cheap grace.”
I would not get hung up however, on focusing obedience to just ONE commandment – the sabbath. There are 9 more of them.
We now have the covenant written in our hearts, and will obey out of love, not because we are trying to justify ourselves. The Feasts are times of coming close to God. And Jesus will celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles when he returns. He also celebrated the Feasts when he was here. So the Feasts are not canceled either.
Most of the power of the Vatican is gone. The beast may use the Vatican AND the Muslims.
Whatever is sin will be part of the beast. Whatever is pure will not.
So this will involve more than the Catholics and the Muslims.
We are saved by grace, not works,and rewarded for our faith, but faith without works is dead.
Hi Marianne,
When Paul used the word “Law” he never specified a specific part of the law. When he said “Law” he meant the whole law of Moses. You claim that only the sacrifical law has been cancelled:
“Colossians 2:13-17
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross. Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.”
In the Scripture above, Paul says that God cancelled the written code with its regulations. Notice that he did specify the sacrifical law only. So, he is speaking of the entire law being abolished and being nailed to the cross. Also, we know that Paul wasn’t just speaking of the sacrifical law because he states the following:
“Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.”
Here in the same verse, he covers the food law and drink law, all festivals, as well as the new moon celebration and the Sabbath day. Do you still think that Paul was only speaking about the sacrificial law only? The entire law was nailed to the cross. Once more, we Gentiles Christians were never expected to observe Jewish customs, holy days, feasts or circumcision. Here Paul says it again:
“Ephesians 2:14-15
For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations.”
Here is what those in Jerselam said when the question came up about requiring Gentile believers to follow the law of Moses and Jewish customs:
“Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, ‘The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses. The apostles and elders met to consider this question. After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did us. He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.” (Acts 15:5-11)
Now, I want to settle this once and for all. I want you to notice that the question that was presented by the group of Pharisees to require the Gentile believers to be circumcised and to obey the law of Moses. The law of Moses is the Torah, which is the entire first five books of the old testament. I bring this up to point to the fact that, they are speaking about the entire law. Then Peter gets up and refers back to when the Lord had sent him to the house of Cornelius, a Gentile Christian, and God showed no distinction between the Jewish believers and the Christian Gentiles, since they had also received the baptism of the Holy Spirit just as the Jews had. Then Peter says, that God knowing the heart purified the Gentile believers by their faith. Then regarding the issue as to whether the Gentiles should be made to be circumcised and to obey the whole law of Moses, Peter says:
“Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the Gentile disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear?
In other words, Peter is saying, “Why shold we require the Gentile believers to observe the law of Moses that neither we nor our fathers were able to keep.”
And here is the answer as to whether or not anyone is saved by the law or by grace:
“No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are.”
So, in other words, Peter, in regards to the question as to whether the Gentiles should be circumcised and made to obey the whole law of Moses, says, we are saved by the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and not by observing the law that neither they nor their fathers were able to bear.
We need to be careful about what we saying to others regarding God’s word. You have proclaimed to all of us that only the sacrifical law was in view, when we just saw without doubt that the whole law of Moses is in view. The other thing that I wanted to point out is that, just becasue I say that we are no longer under the law, that does not mean that I am giving carte blanc to sin. It merely means that instead of being under the yoke of the works of the law, the law is now dead to us and where there is no law, there is no transgression. The word is now written on our hearts and by following Christ we fulfill the law, being led by the Holy Spirit, not following after the written code. And when we sin, we confess our sins and he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins. He is ever at the right hand of God the Father, forever making intercession for us. The whole law has been nailed to the cross, every bit of it, as the requirments of the law met by Christ. We follow him and by following Him, we fulfill the law becuase he fulfilled it perfectly on our behalf. It is credited to us! And we are works in progress, continually being transformed into his image as we go from faith to faith. I don’t think that this will ever be clear to James, but I hope that you can see the truth of this matter.
if the law is nailed to the cross, and means we do not have to obey it, then why have it in our hearts to obey?
I am talking about a difference between USING the law as justification and a source of righteousness, and OBEYING the law because it is in our hearts.
Surely we still have to obey the law, otherwise, we can commit murder, steal, lie, etc. And if you dismiss one law, why not all the others?
It seems contradictory to say that the law is in our hearts, then say that we do not have to obey the law.
Obedience to the law is no longer how we are justified before God, but it is still the evidence of the fruit of our spirits, that we honor him with our obedience.
I agree that we are works in progress, but we cannot dismiss and selectively disobey all the laws, or our lives and witness would be in chaos, and we would miss all the blessings of obedience.
GO to the bottom of the page to make any further comments.
this column is getting too narrow.
🙂
Hi Marianne,
Let me try to explain, by performing the requirements of the law, that is, by doing the works of the law, obstaining from certain foods, circumcision, sacrificial law, feasts, the observance of Holy day, etc, etc, by the performing and keeping these regulatons they believed lyed thier salvation. In other words, I do this, I do this, I do this and I’m saved. The problem is that their religious leaders, the elders, Parisees and Saducees did not mix faith in with the law. It was a, I do this, I perform this, I keep this and I am saved robotic system. This is why Jesus was a stumbling block to them. When Jesus came He lived the perfect sinless life that God required, which they nor we are able to accomplish and so when Jesus came He met God’s requirment for a perfect sinless life in the flesh and fulfilling the law completely. He then nailed the whole law of Moses to the cross as completed and now we follow Him, that is to be like Him and if we are striving to be like Him, then we will not being comitting sexual immorality, stealing, coveting, slandering, lying, murdering, why, because we are following Christ. Just like in a mariage, the law being our husband is now dead and just like in mariage when a husband dies, the wife is no longer obligated to her husband. We are married to another, Jesus Christ and it is by grace through faith of the new covenant through His bloood that we are saved. But what about when we fail and sin? We confess our sins and he is faith and just to foregive us our sins and is always making intercession for us as our Hight Priest to God the Father. As I said before, the law being dead does not give us Carte Blanch to sin,or as Paul said, shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? We are simply not performing the works mentioned above to earn our way into heaven. I follow Christ and He already fulfilled those things perfectly and now God sees us through the spectacles of Christ and sees in us a perfect life, even though we are not perfect, God sees us that way, why? Because Jesus is perfect and we are in Christ. We are works in progress. I pray that this clears this up for you. All we have to do is look at Abraham as the example of salvation through faith. The word of God says, that Abraham believe God and it was credited to him as righteousness and by that faith alone. Abraham is our father in faith. Read the book of Galatians and Romans and it should clear a lot up for you.
“God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did us. He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith.”
I am one of the gentiles that received the baptism in the Holy Spirit…and in Feb 2010, the Holy Spirit told me to LEARN the Jewish Holidays. He didn’t say to “observe”-He simply said to LEARN them. So it is my understanding that the Jewish Holidays are DEFINITELY IMPORTANT since the HS says to learn them. When trying to observe/practice the Unleavened Bread I became very frustrated because a) I didn’t really understand it and b) it was exhausting! I said to myself, “why in the world do we have to do this” and the Holy Spirit quickly responded with “I wanted to show you that you can’t do this without me”. I had no idea what He meant by this until it was explained to me that removing Yeast from your home is symbolic of removing Sin from your life-And the Holy Spirit was right-I can’t do this WITHOUT HIM.
I asked Marianne to remove the link on the post. So if you didn’t save it too late. It was a little over the top, but educational none the less. I had a secular Israeli tell me he and the rest of Israel didn’t take Chabad and the Ultra orthodox seriously. Obviously there are some people that do. In fact these people believe Chabad and Lubavich are going to be part of the beheading. That’s not so far fetched. I don’t think you went far enough through the links.
He really didn’t represent my stand on the rapture. I just liked the symbols and logos he was pointing out. And I’m one of those who took the Y2K very seriously. I feel a little foolish about it now. I know if we are in for hard times, God will meet my needs. I don’t think we are going to be here when the Wrath of God is poured out.
Dr. Reagan says that Prophecy can we used as an evangelism tool in his book. I think we just need to share Jesus. You can’t scare people into the Kingdom of God. There’s going to be a lot of foolish people who go a long with program. Thanks for responding to my post. Sometimes I feel like I’m ignored because I’m not quoting a bunch of scriptures and I get off track. It’s my M.O.
I have the Chabad website on my facebook…how are they related to the future again?
the Chabad is a just a group of Orthodox Jews. They are waiting for the Messiah to show up.
“So the fatal head wound would be a literal fatal head wound? Not a particular government or country having ended then coming back..such as Turkey for example? Just heard a theory about Turkey being the one who had the “fatal head wound” and is now returning to full power”
Hello Lyndsey and all,
First of all, to avoid any confusion on this subject, let us allow Scripture to interpret Scripture, as it always should be. This is why, whenever I make any claims regarding God’s word,I always provide the location of Scripture so that anyone can look it up for themselves. I see that James responded to your post and misrepresented me serveral times, but for now let’s address your question.
First of all, the beast represents Satan as a whole
(Rev.12:3-9), that is, he is the one orchestrating everything, but without going into all of the characteristics of the beast, I will address the “Fatal head wound.” And to do that, we must look at what the Scriptures say:
“And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. He had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on his horns, and on his head a blasphemous name. The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority. One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was astonished and followed the beast.” (Rev.13:1-3)
From the verses above, the beast is said to have ten horns, seven heads and ten crowns. Since we are dealing with your question about the “Fatal Wound” that one of the “Heads” recieves, we must find out what the “Heads” represent, which is what the angel reveals to John in In Rev.17:9-11:
“This calls for a mind with wisdom. The “Seven Heads” are seven hills on which the woman sits. They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for a little while. The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.” (Rev.17:9-11)
So, as we can see, the “seven Heads” are symbolic for two different things, but for purpose of staying on track, I will address the the symbolisim regarding the seven heads identified as being seven Kings.
According to the angel, the “Seven Heads” represent seven kings who rule in succession. So, we know now that the seven heads represent seven individual kings and not a nation or a particular government, but individual persons. Therefore, let’s look at what is being said about these kings.
Five have fallen: The angel tells John regarding these seven kings that, five of them have fallen, that is, from John’s time frame, five of those seven kings have already ruled and have gone, ergo, five have fallen.
One Is: King number six is currently ruling at the time John is receiving this prophecy from the angel, which I believe would be Nero if I’m not mistaken.
The other Has not yet come: This is the seventh king, who is to follow king number six, but when he does come, he will only remain in power for a short time. This is a future king from John’s point of view and is a past king from our time frame.
The beast who once was, and now is not: This is an eighth king, but he is counted with the seven and is going to his destruction. This is the head/king who receives the fatal head wound, who is identified as the beast. We know this head/king is that beast because of the title that was given to him, which is:
“The beast who once was, and now is not.”
To find out who this head/king/beast is we must again go to Scripture in order to find out his identity:
“The beast which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when the see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come.” (Rev.17:8)
So now, through Scripture we have seen that this seveth head is a king and he is also referred to as the beast and who will who will be comimg up out of the Abyss at some future time.
The meaning of “He once was, now is not and yet will come” is as follows:
He once was: He once was out of the Abyss and active in the world.
Now is not: He is currently not out in the world, but is currently in the Abyss.
And yet will come: At some future time, he will come back out of the Abyss.
So, from John’s time frame, this head/king/beast once was out in the world, but now he is in the Abyss and at some future time he will come back out of the Abyss. When does he come back out? Scripture also provides the answer to this:
“They had tails and stings like scorpions, and in their tails they had power to torment people for five months. They had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek, Apollyon.” Rev.9:10-11)
Note: Abaddon and Apollyon both mean “Destroyer.”
So now, we see that this head/king/beast is a fallen angel that is currently restricted in the Abyss and here at the 5th Trumpet another angel is opening the Abyss and letting him and his demonic hoards out. You see how Scripture interprets Scripture? We have identified one of the heads as a king, which led us to him being the beast, who is then identified as a fallen angel, who is currently restricted to the Abyss. What does he do when he comes out of the Abyss?
The following verse is in regards to the two witnesses of God, who prophecy for 3 1/2 years during the tribulation period:
“Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them and over power and kill them.” (Rev.11:7)
The beast is going to be a literal flesh and blood man and he has a counter part, who is that fallen angel that currently resides in the Abyss. An angel (ibid – fallen) will come down from heaven and open the Abyss and let out those demonic beings that will fulfill the 5th trumpet judgment by tormenting the inhabitants of the earth with the stings of a scorpion and at the same time, letting out that fallen angel, their king, who is named “Destroyer.” When he comes out, which will be at around the middle of the seven year period, he will most likely possess his human counter-part who is referred to as the man of lawlessness, also called the antichrist and the beast. He then kills the two witnesses, sets up the abomination of desolation and makes war against and conquers the great tribulation saints.
But, back to the head that receives the head wound. As we have seen, the fatal head wound is done to one of the seven heads, who we identified as the last king of a succession of kings, who is also identified as the beast.
What is the purpose of the fatal head wound?
Fist of all, the word used to describe [Fatal] is translated from the Greek word “Thanatos,” which means “The death of the body.” That is, it is obvious to the inhabitants of the earth that when he receives this head wound, he is most certainly dead, that is, it is obvious that it is not something that anyone could survive, but he does. And because of this, they are in Awe of him, astonished. This event of him receiving a fatal head wound will be for the same purpose that the false prophet will be perfoming signs, miracles and wonders and that reason being for the purpose of deceiving the inhabitants of the world into believing that this beast is God.
(2Thes.2:4,9-11; 19:20)
To further drive home the point that what is receiving the fatal head wound is speaking of a person and not a nation or country, we must again look to Scripture:
“The [beast] was given a [mouth] to [utter] proud words and blasphemies and to exercise [his] authority for forty-two months. [He] opened [his mouth] to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven. [He] was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And [he] was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation. All inhabitants of the earth will worship [the beast] — All whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation fo the world.”
I have put in brackets [] the words to call attention to the fact that an actual individual person is being referred to in the verses above, as he is called a [He] and he has a [mouth] with which he blasphemes God with. And the [He] is identified as [the beast]. And as we have already established in previous Scripture, the beast is one of the seven heads, who is a king and who is also the angel of the Abyss. Now James mentioned that the fatal head wound has already come and gone, but that is not true. How do we know that?
“Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to make war against the rider on the horse and his army. But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miracules signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur.” (Rev.19:19-20)
Here in Rev.19:11-21 John is seeing the vision of the return of the Lord Jesus to the earth to bring an end to human government and to set up His millennial kingdom. One of the first things that Jesus takes care of is, He has the beast and the false prophet thrown alive into the lake of fire. This Scripture would also show that the beast is a person and not a nation or a country, since it is said that [He] is being thrown into the lake of fire [Alive]. What it also demonstrates is that, the beast goes to his destruction at the return of Christ and that being the case, the fatal head wound could not have already happened, because the beast’s demise is in relation to the return of Christ, which has yet to happen. Not only that, but according to Scripture, the beast will only be in power for
3 1/2 years leading up to Christ’s return.
The Scripture below is further proof that the head/king/beast is a person and not a nation or a country:
“Because of the signs he was given power to do on behalf of the first beast, he decieved the inhabitants of the earth. He ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived. He was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that it could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed.” (Rev.13:14-15)
So here, it is said that the false prophet causes the inhabitants of the earth to make an image (ambomination of desolation) in honor of the beast, who as we have seen, is a king and is one of the heads who received the fatal head wound.
There is much more that is related to this study, for example, the seven heads that also represent seven hills upon which the woman sits, the identity of the woman who rides the beast and the ten horns, to name a few, but that would be a lot of information for one post. I hope that you will look at the Scriptures that I have provied so that you can come to your own conclusion. I have only presented the major pieces of the puzzle in order for you to understand who it is that receives the fatal head wound. I hope that this has shed some light in regards to this subject. I look foreward to your feedback.
Hi Don.
I can understand the disagreement over the beast. In Daniel it speaks of a kingdom:
But in Revelation it acts like it is a person.
So maybe it is both. If so, a blow to the head could be a “death of a kingdom” that revives, or a blow to a man’s head, or both.
Hi Marianne,
The beast does represent a kingdom, which is the revived Roman empire, but not with the same strength as it had when it was all iron, the last one being that [ten toed kingdom] which is made up of iron and partly baked clay. The ten toes represent those ten kings in Revelation. But for the sake of answering Lynsey’s question about the fatal head wound, which had to do with one of the heads of the beast, I stayed on track. Otherwise, the post would be gigantic! The head that receives the fatal head wound is a person as I demonstrated through each of the scriptures. As I pointed out, when Jesus returns, the beast and the false prophet are cast [Alive] into the lake of fire. So, when you link all of those Scriptures together, you can see that the fatal head wound is to a man. As far as the ten kings go, they are different from the seven heads in that, the seven heads are a succession go kings, where the ten kings rule concurrently with the beast and they give all of their power and authority to him.
In Revelation 13, the first beast is the kingdom that followed the 4th beast of Daniel – Rome. This is the Holy Roman Empire. It consisted of ten kingdoms but 3 were plucked up by the roots (destroyed by the vatican) leaving seven horns. This is the 10 heads/7 kings you see throughout the prophecy. It proves to the reader what the beast kingdom is but many do not know their history. There is an 11th “little” horn in Daniel who is more stout than its fellows (more powerful) and speaks great things (blasphemy). That little kingdom that controls the others is the Vatican. This is the head that gets the fatal wound in 1798 and is revived in 1929. It is also the second beast of Revelation (which is an image of the first) and the beast some refer to as the Antichrist. The pope is part of the second beast and is the false prophet as well. The revived Roman empire is not mentioned as a beast but it is the 7th king of Revelation – the one after the one who was is not and yet is. Then the 8th and last king(dom) will be a revived Holy Roman Empire – still to come. Note that every kingdom from Babylon in Daniel to the revived Holy Roman Empire in Revelation are continuous and successive – no breaks, no gaps no jumping around the globe.
No world dictator needed, just the beast (Vatican) and the false prophet (pope). No world banking system involved, just a command to all Christians to come to worship every Sunday, perhaps in an attempt to counter Islamic domination.
It is so simple, almost everyone will be fooled, even the elect of God.
And especially those who believe they will soon be raptured and won’t have to worry about the beast. Those folks are going to be frantic looking for the truth. I pray they will find the light before then.
84473264
In the latest movie Superman, Superman receives a wound until death, but came back to life. The evil white male who created the New World, or land where Atlantis once supposedly was, grew to overcome most of America. Kind of like the New World Order taking over the reins of America’s superpower.
Superman comes along and destroys the New Atlantis, but it cost him his life. Earlier in the movie, it shows Superman getting his power from the Sun. Is he the symbolic son of the Sun god? Whom we call Tammuz? Anyway, the audience loves Superman for destroying the New Atlantis, and defeating man. Superman is not human, but an Alien.
So, we have a Nephilim taking over what man created. Although, it was an evil man, most likely dong the bidding of Lucifer The movie follows the hope of New Age believers. The coming of the son of the Sun god to help mankind once again. Just like Buddha, and Mohammad. The so called Christ consciousness.
Perhaps, this the miracle to mislead mankind. A UFO, or UFO’s landing, and a human looking Nephilim walks out to lie he has returned to help mankind. First, in peace, second as the Christ the world needs.
Just thinking out loud.
I got to see that movie! LOL
On a serious note, I remember an interview where this guy (Aaron Russo) said to watch the movies coming out, for they had a lot of hidden messages to the populace!
“Russo goes in-depth for first time on the astounding admissions of Nick Rockefeller, including his prediction of 9/11 and the war on terror hoax, the Rockefeller’s creation of women’s lib, and the elite’s ultimate plan for world population reduction and a microchipped society
Here is an excerpt to the interview between Aaron Russo and Alex Jones:
If I get the jest of what you are saying, I agree in that, we have this alien and ghost explosion going on. Personally, I feel that demonic beings are responsible for both alien and ghost sightings and I believe that this is for the purpose of desception. When you watch these shows or read these books by these so-called professionals, they will write about seeing apparitions in a union soldiers outfit or a little girl in a 1920’s outfit, etc, etc. And based on what they are seeing and hearing, is what they are basing their information, but remember, demonic beings hate God and humans. They are experts at desception and their purpose is to deceive. Someone might say, “What would be their purpose for appearing as a union soldier or anyone else? Well, for one thing, the world believes that human spirits are responsible for hauntings, mission accomplished. Or they believe that aliens have come from some far away galaxy, when they are most likely demonic beings masquerading as aliens. Rebember, these demonic beings were once holy angels and very intelligent. After their rebellion with Satan, I believe that they retained that intelligence and their ranks and powers. As far as these flying saucers go, it would take nothing for a fallen angel to create machinery of this caliber, because they are mathamatical geniuses, far above the most intelligent men on earth. Also, in regards to ghosts, God does not allow human spirits to wander around after death. When Lazarus of the rich man story, Lazarus died and it says that the angels [took him] to Abraham’s side and the rich man went into hades. According to Paul, to be absent from the body is to be in the presense of the Lord. I believe that there is an angel or angels waiting as soon as a peson dies. God is certainly is not going to allow a person who rejected His Son to wander around after death, because that person would be avoiding the beginning of his punishment. The rich man did not pass go and did not collect $200, but went right to Hades. I believe that people may be being prepared for something in the future by all of this. Look at how much of it is on TV. Now, since people go to their respective places, who is responsible for all of this paranormal activity? Think about it, when people are convinced that these are human ghost, then people begin having seance’s, work with Quiji boards, call on mediums and are also channeling spirits, who tell them that they are their spirit guides. News flash! All of those things listed are forbidden to us by God and are sin. Not only that, but being involved with those things invites demonic spirits into our lives, opening the door. They’re not going to tell you who they are. What do you guys think about this?
I agree human spirits can not wander the earth, but the spirits of the Nephilim do. These are the evil spirits Jesus sent into swine. Most of the fallen Angles are chained, and can not be around humans anymore. The Book of Enoch reads this.
Lucifer, given respite until Judgement day, plus a few of his followers are the ones doing the UFO stuff, and talking to the New Agers about assending to a higher plane.
As it was in the time of Noah, so shall it be at the second coming of the son of man. What was once good, is called evil, and what was once evil is called good.
Hello again,
From what I have gathered from God’s word, a third of the angels rebelled against God at Satan’s trafficing and the majority of them are still out and about. These are those of whom Paul wrote about when he said:
“For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities,against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.” (Eph.6:12)
The fallen angels that were and are restricted to the Abyss, are those who were also called by Enoch “The Watchers of Heaven,” of which their numbers were 200 and these are those who took wives from humanity and had intercourse with them and produced giants (Nephilim). These are those who are in the Abyss until judgment. I believe that Peter and Jude mention these specific angels:
“For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to Tartaroo, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;” (2Pet.2:4)
“And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their own home–these he has kept in darkness, bound with ever-lasting chains for judgment on the great Day. (Jude 6)
But as for the bulk of those angels that rebelled, I believe that they are, as the Paul wrote, who we are fighting against and soon they along with Satan will be cast out of heaven and completely restricted to the earth at around the middle of the seven year period, which is the thrid woe of Revelation.
“And there was war in heaven, Michael and his angels fought against the dragon and his angels fought back. But the was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hruled down–that ancient serpent called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth and his angels with him.” (Rev.12:7-9)
Not only do I believe that many of those angels that originally rebelled with Satan are out and about, but there are going to be a lot more added to that number during the tribulation period to torment and kill mankind:
“The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star (angel) that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss.
When he opened the Abyss, smoke rose from it like the smoke from a gigantic furnace. The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss. And out fo the smoke locusts came down upon the earth and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth.” (Rev.9:1-3)
“Their hair was like women’s hair, and their teeth were like lions’ teeth.”
“They had tails and stings like scorpions, and in their tails they had power to torment people for five months. They had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon and in Greek Apollyon. (Rev.9:10-11)
The fallen angel/demonic activity is the reason that the world is in its current condition.
I had a very close friend of mine who started to dabble in this stuff and then when she went full speed, it was time for us to part ways. She was the one that was in my dream about the rapture-she was not going. I have since contacted her about the dream but received no response.
What I find so fascinating is that most people, my friend included, are so willing and passionate to believe in this “stuff” but when you talk to them about Christ, they say “we are crazy”! ha!
I remember one afternoon I was coming home, lived next door to my friend mentioned above, and as I was pulling in I saw her leaving in a hurry. I rolled down my window and asked her why she was in a hurry and she said she got a call about a haunting that was going on and they needed her help-she burned rubber leaving and I was just cracking up laughing-I thought how silly…but she made it so “exciting” I almost felt left out! LOL One time I actually asked if I could tag along on one of her ghost hunts and she told me no. She said I could not bring my religion in on it. I had kept telling her to just plead the blood of Jesus and that would get rid of them-her point pretty much was that they DIDN’t want to get rid of them-they wanted to talk to them and figure them out…..and so she continues with this. We haven’t spoken in over a year.
Whenever I’m watching these shows like “The Haunting” they aways call in someone to cleanse the house and they get out their Sage to do their so-called smudging to clear the house of undesirable spirits. I’m yelling at the TV, telling them that sage is not going to get rid of demonic beings! I’m always amazed when they consult the Roman Catholic church as though they were the ultimate authority on and the last word on the validity of demonic activity. Then when the priest does arrive, he has this huge book on exorcism rites (Exorcism for Dummies). My book of exorcism rites would be one verse “In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ come out of him!” It is by the power and authority of God and the name of Jesus that drives out spirits, not any of these traditions of men. As far as I’m concerned, calling in a Roman Catholic priest to cast out a demon is like throwing gasoline on fire. A priest from that false religious system would be the last person that I would want present when dealing with demonic activity. These demonic beings even have people believing that people are also possed by the spirits of people who have died. I’m currently reading this book called “Real Ghosts, Restless Spirits, and Haunted Places” and there is this one incident where a Roman catholic priest and a group of nuns are trying to cast out this demon and the demon tells them that there are many demons with him, including Judas Iscariot as well as the spirit of the possessees father. As though a human being could be possessed by another human being’s spirit. These people are deceived, as they are only dealing ever dealing with demonic beings. Those who have died in the Lord are in the presence of the Lord and those who have died without the Lord are in Hades. Peopel who are envolved in seeking out these spirits like your friend are putting themselves in a dangerous position, especially when they do not belong to Christ.
“….calling in a Roman Catholic priest to cast out a demon is like throwing gasoline on fire”
Laughing! that is so true! There is only so much Holy Water to go around!
Regarding my friend, I tried my best to tell her how dangerous this was. I told her that these spirits were liars and that when someone thinks they are talking to “marilyn or Elvis” it is really their familiar spirit/demonic spirit who knows what to say-who knew them and is able to answer all the questions. Her husband told me once that he didnt care much about what she was doing, but as long she didn’t bring anything home with her he was fine with it. Well, she did, on several occasions as was evident by the family cat who would stare while in a fighting stance with his hair and tail up at “something” that wasn’t there! yea right…my friend did get nervous about it but kept going back and back and back. I am embarased to even admit that she pulled me in one afternoon with a tarot card reading. Afterward she got physically ill! She looked horrible. I went home and begged G-d to forgive me and rebuked any and all spirits that may have followed me home-I still feel guilty over that, but this is how seductive this crap is!
Hey Lyndsey,
Even the so-called paranormal professionals are deceived. Take Ed and Loraine Warren, who are known as “Demonologists,” well, Loraine still is, but Ed passed away. They believe in demons of course, but they also believe in human spirits as haunting entities. They have them all catagorized, Good spirits, evil spirits, poltergeists, Vardogers, Dopplegangers, etc, etc. As you said, they are demonic beings/familiar spirits. They know events that have taken place, family members or friends who have died, etc. And these mediums talk about receiving images and information about the spirits, but what they don’t understand is, it is the demonic entity that is projecting that information to them. These people have seance’s and think that they are speaking with dead family members, friends or relatives and all because the medium is being lied to by the spirit or spirits that are coming through to the medium. I’ve always wondered what the significance of the cold spots and the fragrance of flowers and other odors have to do with their presence. The cold spots could be a result of the portal opening or the spirit entering our plain or dimension, so-to-speak. I know that if people knew what they were really dealing with all the time, they wouldn’t be so eager to be envolved. Your friend is putting herself and her husband into a bad situation, as I’m sure you already know.
My brother is having things happen at his house as well, but he doesn’t know why. One day, his wife was at home and she saw him in the garage from the front yard and she called him and he went into the house and she followed after him, but could not find him anywhere. So, she called him on his cell and he answered and she said, “Where’d you go, I was calling you?” And he said, “I don’t know what you’re talking about, I’ve been at work all day.” Another time, my brother said he was laying on the couch, which faces the door to the backyard and their cat, Jasmine, was rubbing back and forth by the door wanting to go out and he said, “no Jasmine!” Then it hit him, that he was petting Jasmine in his lap. He looked up and the cat by the door was gone. Recently, he has been seeing activity in his next door neighbors yard. He said that he was looking into their yard and there was wind blowing in just one area, but nowhere else, with like a fluoresent mist and there were images moving about. He said, the images were darker than the surrounding darkess of night, which is why he could see them. He said this has happened about four different times. It’s good be knowledgable about these things, as a way of know something about your’s and God’s enemies. The things that they do are truly strange such as, reenacting something that happened in the past, masquerading as a person,scratchings and thumpings within the house that can’t be located, even taking on the form of an animal. And because of all these things, people end up believing in human spirits responsible for the haunting. The only way that I would be involed with anything like that, is if a person was in danger for their life, because of possession. Regarding this, I have faith in what Jesus said:
“I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scopions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you.” (Luke 10:19)
And
“Stronger is He that is in you, then he that is in the world.”
This reminded me about when I was living in another house a few years back shortly after my horse accident. I mention the accident because my friends laughed and said I should check with my neurologist after I told them what was happening. On one occasion, I saw “william” running down the hallway to the living room as I was tucking in his brother. I went down the hallway to look for him so as to get him back in bed. I looked everywhere and even checked the doors to make sure he didn’t go outside-I went back down the hall and saw him in bed! ASLEEP! William takes meds to help him sleep so there is NO WAY he could have run down the hall and then back to the bed in only a 5 min period. I actually did tell my neurologist about this thinking that maybe the head injury was worse than I thought…laughing… and to my surprise they took me seriously! They didn’t find anything wrong and I never saw the “child” again. What was interesting about this was that prior to the accident, I had always been able to “feel” the presence of what I then thought were human spirits (now realizing this was of course wrong-not human) and then after the accident I was actually seeing them-at least the one in my house whom I thought was my son and then another time at my neighbors house-I truly, as G-d as my witness, thought I saw a teenager running in my neighbors yard at night (spotlight was on them from the shed in the back)wearing a gray sweat jacket with a hood! Long story short, police were called and did a search but found nothing-not even footprints but I would swear to what I saw!
And not only that, the flood light on the shed was not on-hadn’t been turned on according to my neighbors husband-the whole thing was bizarre but I know what I saw! There is no way I could have seen anything unless the LIGHT WAS ON! very strange…my neighbor later told me that when I first told her what I saw which prompted her to call the police, that her first thought was that it was a ghost-she dabbled in that stuff too-probably was the one who brought it into my house! ha!
And it is important to note, that each of these times, I thought I was “seeing” a real person-not a spirit or a demon or anything like that, so therefore I wasn’t knowing that I was to “rebuke” them until after the fact…just a thought
And NO I am not crazy…my neurologist actually confirmed that fact…LOL
time for Halloween.
laughing! where’s the campfire!
I wanna say I was entertaining angels, but I think they were entertaining me!
Marianne,
Does this mean the “cow” video isn’t real?! LOL
The infamous Cow video:
and the latest yahoo news…Witchcraft comments from past haunt Christine O’Donnell
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot/20100920/el_yblog_upshot/witchcraft-comments-from-past-haunt-christine-odonnell
I like the cow. The cow stays! Don’t care about the girl.
Maybe they just wanted a good burger and a class of milk. :]
This story still MOOOOves me! 🙂
To Don regarding the works of Paul et. al.
There were many other writings of the apostles and others that were not deemed suitable for inclusion in the New Testament. The final choices were made by committees. Not everyone agreed on every document and compromises were no doubt made. New documents are still being discovered and clergy around the world are still trying to decide if they are god-inspired or not. The gospels of Thomas and Judas comes to mind. The catholic bible uses a different set from the protestant bible and the Torah has other books such as Enoch which christian scholars have rejected.
Did those ancient committees get everything right? Could you read these new documents and decide for the world if they are worthy?
They were written by imperfect men and selected by imperfect committees so believe you can take every single word in them as gospel truth. We all know the gospels themselves have varying accounts of the same events, depending on the memories of the writer, That is to be expected unless the books were quoted by an angel as in the case of Daniel and a few others.
I’m not calling them liars by any means but I am calling them human, thats all.
Most theologians would agree with me but priests and preachers not so much. Many of them also have an agenda and tend to interpret to fit their beliefs. I tend to keep an open mind and look at all sides before forming an opinion, and i still keep my beliefs flexible because i realize that no-one has the whole truth. And we all know how scripture can be twisted to make just about any point if one has a mind to do so. Sort of like my bag – statistics. They can be made to prove anything if properly presented.
Sorry but you ain’t going to remove the engineer from me any time soon. If something is not logical, I’m going to question it and take it apart to see what makes it tick.
So it is with me and scripture. Sorry if that frustrates you.
James,
Everything else aside that you wrote, my response was to your claim that Paul’s writing was not inspired by the Holy Spirit and I proved you wrong, in that, I showed everywhere where it was mentioned that Paul had revelations and visions directly from the Lord. So, your claim that Paul’s writing was not inspired by God is incorrect. If we can’t trust in the word of God that exists today, then we have no basis for truth at all. You are being led astray by those who would refute the validity of the word of God. Don’t you think that God is powerful enough to ensure that the word that He wanted us to read would be here? You fit the criteria below.
“For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.”(2Tim.4:1-4)
Repent of this!
Don,
I think we are saying the same thing, so there is agreement. We just express what we are saying in different ways.
Hi Lyndsey,
There is nothing wrong with learning about the law and all that took place with Israel. I have and do study all of these things myself, but there is a big differance between studying this for knowledge sake, compared to performing it to obtain salvation.
Most of the rituals and celebrations of the law were pointing to Christ. For example, You mentioned the celebration of unleaved bread, which was apart of the passover celebration. Leaven represents sin and therefore, the lack of yeast in the bread represents, no sin. The bread represents Christ, as He said “I am the bread of life.” The yeast being absent from the bread represents Christ as the bread without containing sin/yeast. Jesus therefore represents our unleavened bread, that is, Christ who had no sin in him.
Another example would be the Rock of Horeb also called Meribah where the Israelites grumbled because they had no water and God told Moses to strike the rock once and out of it would come water. As the rock was to be struck once and out of that stiking came life giving water, so also Jesus who was struck once and out of that striking came eternal life. This was the very reason that Moses was not allowed to cross over to the promised land, because he struck the rock twice out of anger, which messed up God’s teaching type, because Jesus was only struck once and out of that striking came eteral life. Jesus represents that rock that was struck at Meribah. Remember what Jesus said to the Samaritan woman at the well? He said, “If you knew who it was that asked you for a drink, you would ask Him and He would give you living water.” And also, whoever drinks of this water will never be thristy again. Jesus is that living water and if we drink of Him we will never be thristy.
But, in regards to these things of the law, the feasts, circumcision, regulations, ordinances, holy days, etc,etc. We who belong to the body of Christ do not perform them in order to obtain salvation, because Christ is the end of them. There is nothing wrong with participating in those things to experience them in honor of God, but the division between grace and the law comes when we are trying to live according to the law to obtain salvation. To do this takes us out from under salvation by grace through fait and puts us back under the works of the law, of which God’s word say “No one will be justified by the law.” The word “Justified” means “To be made righteous.” We are made righteous because we are in a faith covenant with God through the shed blood of Jesus Christ, otherwise, we have no righteousness of our own. Understand then, that we are free in Christ. We do not live according to the law of Moses, but are saved by grece, which is divine, unmerited favor. Unmerrited means that you didn’t do anything to earn it, but God gives it to you and that through faith.
Hey Don,
Just that one week of removing yeast from the house taught me that this is truly very difficult to do and I took from that experience a whole new respect for the Jewish people who have been doing this for YEARS! In the middle of it, I did feel as if I was a failure and that there was no way, NO WAY I could do this PERFECTLY. Finding the humor in it, was that my son, who you know has Autism, and who clearly didn’t understand what I was doing, kept bringing the “yeast’ back into the house…the sun was setting so I took what I had left and put it outside under the grill…and then here comes William…bringing it back in AFTER the sun set…uggh! So, I THANK G-D that this has nothing to do with salvation cause we would be in TROUBLE! LOL but of course I could always blame william..HA!
Now having learned the sequence of the Feasts days i have come to learn and understand their relation to Jesus’ first coming and how he fulfilled the “spring feasts” and how Jesus’ second coming will fulfill the “fall feasts”. And THEN I ran across Mark Biltz’ site on the solar and lunar eclipses and how for 2 years in a row-2014/2015 the eclipses will occur on all these Feasts days starting with Passover all the way thru to Sukkot! Pretty interesting stuff. And it makes me think that something is truly going to happen because since the HS told me to learn them, then they definitely are of great significance and will play a role in what is to come…(up until Feb of this year, the only Jewish holiday I knew about was hanukah)
And passover…and Easter-but these two went together with the Christian holidays…
Don,
Are you sure Moses struck the rock twice, or with his staff rather than his hand. If I remember, Moses used his staff, and was not allowed to cross over the Jordan, but saw the land from the mountian top.Then God took his life.
Later,
Hi Leatherneck,
Yes, Moses struck the rock twice with his staff. In my previous post, I just said that “He struck the rock twice” figuring that everyone knew that it was with his staff and not his hand, so you are correct.
Morning Lyndsey,
You bring up an interesting issue regarding the Passover and Easter. The passover was of course that last plague that God brought upon Egypt, where the Israelites were told to mark the sides and tops of their doors so that, when the angel of death came to their houses and saw the blood, he “Passed Over” that household from killing the first born male. The purpose for the Jews in observing Passover is to commemorate their exodus out of Egypt, but they didn’t realize the other meaning of it and that was that the Passover Lamb was pointing to Jesus, the Messiah, for He was and is our Passover Lamb. In the same whay that the angel of death passed over that household in Egypt when he saw the blood on the door post, so also, God passes over us when He sees the blood of Christ upon us. I’m always dumbstruck when I look on the calendar and see that Easter and Passover are separated by sometimes as much as three weeks apart, when they are about the same event. I know that Easter has its roots in paganism and was just carried over into Christianity from Roman Catholicism and continued to be observed by prodestant churches that broke away from Catholicism. This is where the Rabbit’s, eggs and Easter sunrise service actually comes from, that is, the worship of the sun in the east, which was just carried over into Christianity. I personlly believe that if we wanted to partake in this, we should observe the Passover/death and resurrection by breaking bread, which represents His body that was boken for us and partaking of the cup, which represents His blood that was shed for us. After all, this is what the Passover is all about.
It is ironic that the Jewish leaders who had Him crucified, were in a hurry for Him to die on the cross, so that He would not be hanging there to defile the passover celebration, which started at sunset and they didn’t even realize that He was the Passover Lamb, that is, He was what the Passover was and is all about.
“They must not leave any of it till morning or [break any of its bones]. When they celebrate the Passover, they must follow all the regulations.” (Numbers 9:12)
“The soldiers therefore came and broke the legs of the first man who had been crucified with Jesus, and then those of the other. But when they came to jesus and found that he was already dead, [they did not break His legs].”
“It is ironic that the Jewish leaders who had Him crucified, were in a hurry for Him to die on the cross, so that He would not be hanging there to defile the passover celebration, which started at sunset and they didn’t even realize that He was the Passover Lamb, that is, He was what the Passover was and is all about. ”
Isn’t that somethin! I never thought about that…not knowing the Jewish Feasts, it never occurred to me the relevance/in relation to/just amazing…thanks Don for bringing that to light! 🙂
*may I ask, you have to be spirit filled?! right? it seems to be coming across in your words/posts if you don’t mind me saying
Hi Lyndsey and all,
You are welcome! This is what we ought to be doing, having fellowship and lifting each other up and strengthening one another
in our common faith in Jesus Christ and the word of God. I believe that when we receives Christ, we all become Sprit filled as promised. The question is, how many are quenching the fire of the Holy Spirit? I believe in what the word of God says:
“If you draw near to God, he will draw near to you.” (James 4:8)
In the book of Revelation, in the letter to Ephesus, Jesus commends them for their deeds, hard work, endurance and such and then He says:
“Yet I hold this against you: You have forsaken your first love.”
(Rev.2:4)
The meaning of “Forsaking your first love” is that passion, fire and zelousness for God the Father and Jesus Christ that the church of Ephesus first had when Paul preached to them, but had subsided. One might ask, How could they have left their first love if Jesus is commending them for their deeds, works, endurance and so on? I believe that this is one of the problems in the church today with the individual believer in that, you can be doing all of those things, robotically, that is, just going though the motions. There are many in the churches today who go with the attitude that they are just performing their weekly duty or requirment. They aren’t excited about His promise of enternal life, but their hearts are on the things of this world and not in heaven, not anticipating the promise of His appearing to take us back to heaven nor are they excited about His word and all the treasure of knowledge that can be found in the word of God. I have been studying for 38 years and God is revealing more things to me now than ever. If we will draw near unto God in studying His word, praying to Him and applying His word to our lives, staying focused on Him, He will draw near to us. I believe that this is the reason why, in the future, many are going to turn away from the faith when persecution and the threat of death arises and that because of his name sake and the gospel. Many people within the church look upon it as nothing but a social gathering, not having a personal relationship with God through Christ and so, when being aligned with Christ becomes life threatening, they will turn away from the faith. See Jesus account regarding the last days(Mt.24:9-10)
Babylon is being rebuilt. A lot of US tax money is being used, and in 2006 the State Department helped the Iraq government map out the area.
The Bible reads Babylon will be rebuilt, and the seat of Satan will rule the world from there. Then, be destroyed by Christ.
A lot of people thought Babylon would not be rebuilt, that it is somehow a symbol for the world’s secular humanist agenda, or the reborn Roman Empire.
I looked it up on the net, and there is a lot of progress being made. Lucifer’s man, like Nimrod, will rule from there.
Have a good night.
Hi Leatherneck,
From the time I became a believer in Christ, though I studied the whole word of God, I was and have always been drawn to the book of Revelation and prophecy in general. As always, I believe that Scripture must interpret Scripture, that is, the answers to the prophecies of God are revealed within His word and the book of Revelation is no different. So, we must look to the Scriptures to get the answers. From my many years of study on this subject, here is what I have come up with in regards to who Babylon is, that is, who the woman is that rides the beast. To do this I will try to paint a picture using Scripture:
“One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, ‘Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits on many waters. With her the kings of the earth committed adultery and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries.’ Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a desert. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. The woman was dressed in purle and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. This title was written on her forehead: (Rev.17:1-5)
Mystery
Babylon the Great
The Mother of Prostitutes
and the Abominations of
the earth.
Now, the woman and the beast compliment one another in that, the woman is part of the beast:
“This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits.” (Rev.17.9)
The seven heads of the beast represent seven hills upon which the woman sits. It has always been a well know fact that, Rome was built on and is known as the city that was built on seven hills, the hills Of Early Rome being, Cermalus,Cispius, Fagutal, Oppius, Palatium, Sucusa and Velia. Another clue as to the identity of the woman being Rome/Vatican can be found in the following verse:
“The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.” (Rev.17:18)
Here, the angel tells John that, the woman represents the great city that rules over the kings of the earth. At the time that John was receiving these prophecies and visions from which the book of Revelation was written, both the word of God, as well as world history records that Rome was that city that ruled over the kings of the then known world.
The meaning of,”The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits,” refers to the woman’s headquarters, that is, where she is based, which is on seven hills, Rome.
“Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits on many waters.” (Rev.17:1)
The the woman being the “Great Prostitute” is in reference to spiritual adultery. Whenever Israel would turn to graven images and worship the god’s of the nations around them, they would be said to be committing spiritual adultery against God. So, in referring to the woman as the great prostitute, she is in apostacy in regards to the true Christian Church.
We have identified the woman as Rome and the fact that she is referred to as the great prostitute would speak of her apostasy from the true Christian faith, which is in reference to Rome’s false religious system, that is, Roman Catholicism. I have always said that the Roman Catholic institution is the biggest, false religious system proclaiming to be the church of Christ all the while hiding right out in plain sight. Or better put, Roman Catholicism is paganism wearing Christian clothing. All one has to do is a cursorary study of Roman Catholicism and it becomes aparent that she is not of Christ whatsoever. She just looks religious with all of her gold, purple, scarlet, popes, bishops, cardinals and all of their pomp. The information that I am listing below can be verified within Roman Catholicism’s own dogma’s established by the counsels of Trent, Vatican I and Vatican II and the proclamations of various other pope’s. First of all let me make it clear that, Mary was and is a blessed woman used by God to bring our Lord into the world so that He could be kinned to the human race in order to be our kinsman redeemer and thus our saviour.
Roman Catholicism’s teaching on Mary, the mother of Jesus:
Mary has been deemed as a perpetual virgin, co-redeemer with Christ, Co-savior, proclaimed to be without sin, given the official titles of queen of heaven and mother of God and proclaimed to have ascended into heaven to name just a few of the major teachings on Maryism. These teaching’s and symbols have their roots in the pagan practices of Babylon with regards to Nimrod, Simeramis and Tamuz.
I don’t believe that I even need to go into an explanation to show that these practices are not of God. The teaching of Maryism is just one facet of the spiritual adultery committed by Roman Catholicism. For example, we as Christians partake of the breaking of bread, which represents Christ’s body that was broken for us and the cup of wine, which represents His blood that was shed for us and the word of God says that, as often as we do this, we do this in remembrance of Jesus. Regarding the breaking of bread or communion as they call it, the dogma of Roman Catholicism is the teaching that, at the time of the partaking of what they call the Eucarist waffer, that Jesus literally comes down into the waffer, so that the partaker is literally eating His flesh and blood. Furthermore, it is stated in their dogma that if anyone says that it is not his literal flesh and blood that you are eating and that if anyone says it is only a symbolic act, then they are to be considered an athema, which means to be formally denounced or excommunicated from being a practicing Roman Catholic. I could go into the practice of making confession to a priest, the saying of hail Mary’s, the teaching of Pergatory, sacraments, etc, etc. Something that is also in their teaching is that the pope is infallible and that Roman Catholic dogma often supercedes the word of God, as well as the word of the Pope, which is called excathedra, which means:
“In Catholic theology, the Latin phrase ex cathedra, literally meaning “from the chair”, refers to a teaching by the pope that is considered to be made with the intention of invoking infallibility.”
When the disciples were arguing about who would be the greatest in heaven, Jesus said the following:
“You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be your slave.”
In regards to the above Scripture, the individuals within the Church are to be least of all and servant of and these will be the greatest in heaven. Roman Catholicism is set up exactly the opposite of this, in that it is a hirerarchy, pope, bishop’s, cardinals, etc. The pope is carried around like the Pharoah of Egypt and sits on throne!
Now, I have mentioned all of things just to paint a picture of who the woman is that rides the beast. Let’s look at some of the characteristics of the prostitute:
“Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits on many waters.”
Earlier, we saw that the seven heads represent seven hills on which the woman sits, which as I stated refers to her headquarters. Another characteristic is that, she sits on many waters. As always, Scripture gives us the answer to the meaning of these symbolisms:
“Then the angel said to me, ‘The waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages.” (Rev.17:15)
We know that the seven heads represent seven hills where the woman sits, which is her headquarters and it it also states that she sits on many waters, the waters representing peoples, multitudes, nations and languages. This, in my opinion is speaking of the woman’s false religious influence upon all peoples, multitudes, nations and languages, that is, the influence of Roman Catholicism can be found upon every shore of every continent.
Now, how did Babylonian, pagan practices become mixed in with Christianity? The answer to this can be found when Constantine made Christianity Rome’s official religion. You have an empire that is filled with many of the pagan practices of Babylon and now Constantine deems Christianity as Rome’s official religion… So, what do you think happened to all of the false religious, Babylonian practices of Rome? They became intermixed with the Christian faith, which produced the Roman Catholic branch of the church, which is why we still see the pagan practices within her today.
Another reason that I don’t belive that the actual city of Babylon is in view here is because, for one, Babylon is not known for being built on seven hills and also because of the title given to her, which many fail to recognize:
Mystery, Babylon the Great, the Mother of postitutes and the Abominations of the earth.
Notice the word “Mystery’ as in “Mystery Babylon.” The word “Mystery” is translated from the Greek word “Mysterion,” which is defined as, a hidden thing, secret, mystery, generally mysteries, religious secrets. Mystery Babylon could not refer to the actual city of Babylon, because there would be no mystery about it and its pagan practices were well known. The reason that I believe Roman Catholicism is Mystery Babylon, is because within her can be found all of the false, religious pagan practices of ancient Babylon, which is where all of paganism has its roots and which Roman Catholicism is practicing, while at the same time masquerading as the Church.
Now, just to add on to the information already give, I believe that the second beast, which comes up out of the earth, later identified as the “False prophet” will be one of the future pope’s. The Roman Catholic institution is a billion strong and we can already see the peoples devotion to the pope. What do you think would happen if one of these future pope’s were to begin to perform those signs, miracles and wonders that are mentioned in regards to the false prophet? If you think that the followers of Roman Catholicism are devout now, just wait until he begins performing these counterfeit miracles! And the reason that he will be performing these miracles and signs will be to give credibilty to the beast who will be proclaiming himself to be God. If the pope/false prophet is the beast’s right hand man and he is promoting the beast as God, then the beast will automatically have a billion plus people in his hip pocket, because their leader, the pope/false prophet will be promoting him. By the way, the false prophet is also the one who forces the inhabitants of the earth to receive the mark of the beast and therefore, those who follow after the pope will receive the mark of the beast wilfully and eagerly.
There is much more information regarding chapters 17 and 18, but I am just trying to concentrate on the woman who rides the beast and who is Mystery Babylon and that in resonse to your post. I look forward to your’s and anyone elses thoughts in regards to this matter.
Leatherneck and Don
Most of the foundation for a Roman Vatican beast relies on the 7 hills aspect. What about other characteristics of the beast?
Such as being active in the slave trade:
What about the commerce of Babylon that is described?
Babylon also kills the saints, the catholic church does not do this in modern times.
Also sitting on 7 hills are areas that were part of ancient Babylon:
Ammon, Jordan
Constantinople (Istanbul), Turkey- on each hill there is a mosque
Jerusalem, Israel
Regarding Rome, which still could be an option:
The woman (religion) and the beast (empire) go together.
If the woman is Rome (catholic), then the beast is who? a union of “catholic countries?”
If the woman is Istanbul or Ammon, then the beast is a coalition of Islamic countries – Babylon revived.
my 2 cents…..not saying i am right, but just my thoughts.
Maybe I can help tie together the woman, the beast and the mark in a more logical manner Here.
First of all I agree with Don in most of what he believes about the Roman Catholic Church being the woman (apostate church) and that “Mystery Babylon” is no the same as “ancient Babylon, but instead it represents all the pagan practices picked up by the church over time and which must be destroyed before Christ returns to marry His bride.
I agree that the church and “Spiritual Babylon” let’s call it, will be destroyed, along with its leader, the false prophet – the next and final pope.
This makes far more sense than saying that God will have to destroy a city or even Islam in order to prepare His bride – neither of these are necessary, so why do it? All previous prophesy has been to God’s people about their indiscretions and the Book of Revelation is no exception.
So what we are looking at is a church (woman) riding a beast (kingdom). The church is simply the original and still the biggest and richest group of Christians on the planet. The opulence of Revelation 18 can’t possibly describe the modern Islamic church, don’t kid yourself – it’s the Vatican.
As for the beast – there are two-in-one here. The actual kingdom/beast is the Vatican – a true nation in itself, plus the self-same “Spiritual Babylon” – the beast of paganism – all rolled into one. It is the beast that will be tossed into the lake of fire with its spiritual leader, the last pope – the false prophet.
Why is the pope the false prophet and not some Muslim leader? Because he is the only one trying to destroy God’s people by turning them to satanic ways. Otherwise God would have to get rid of Muhammad, Buddha and any number of other so-called messengers of God. God is not concerned with other religions, only His own. Now some might say that Joseph Smith is the false prophet, but I dint think so.
Also, everything mentioned in the Book of Revelation fits the Vatican. They beheaded millions of saints as heretics, they are the classic city of 7 hills, it sits on many waters etc, etc. All of the descriptions fit, plus they came from the Holy Roman Empire (the first beast/kingdom of Revelation 13, which came from the 4 successive beasts of Daniel to which the Book of Revelation is tied.
Now here is some more food for thought. We can all pretty much agree that paganism is the work of Satan. He has managed to infiltrate it into the early Christian church through its merging with the Roman empire. Paganism is the devil’s calling card, can we agree? And when Christ returns, Satan will be cast out of His church. What might this entail?
Well, we can assume the pagan holidays of Tammuz’ birthday (Dec, 25) and his mother Semiramis’ feast day (Ishtar – Easter) will have to go. Sorry Santa.
Then over 50 pagan practices will also have to go. Wedding rings, holy water, vestal virgins (nuns), Easter eggs and bunnies etc.
Then all the graven images, statues etc will have to be removed (Sorry great cathedrals of the world) when the second commandment is restored.
Finally, God’s Holy Sabbath will be returned to Saturday where it had been until the romans forced Christians to worship on their pagan SUNday.
Don’t count on Jesus changing his mind on some of these just because they are popular.
Now for that mark thingy. If the Book of Revelation is truly about the destruction of paganism before the second coming, and if paganism is the sign of Satan, wouldn’t we expect the mark , which represents allegiance to the satan-controlled beast (Vatican), to be some form of paganism perpetrated by the Roman Catholic Church? Just sayin’.
I’m sure there are some out there who will insist on trying to find a link between the Vatican and the world economy, perhaps suggesting that the pope will require the microchipping of the whole world, but that is really stretching it. Wouldn’t it make more sense that he would simply make all his followers go to mass every Sunday? Wouldn’t that make Satan very happy?
Well, it won’t sell any books – it’s not sensational enough. But God often works in subtle ways.
And so does satan.
Joesph Smith looked into his hat that had seer stones. He could tell what the spirits had to say that way. What happen to the 200lbs of gold tablets he brought down from the mountian? G-d never said you, and your children will rule worlds, and G-d the Father was never a man who became G-d of this world.
You do not know your history very well, and you gave no Biblical verses to back up your long winded rant. Please go back, and review my post with Bible quotes, and refute them with other Bible quotes.
Thank you,
Guess you don’t know your Mormon history so well either. Smith claims to have been visited by an angel that floated above his bed and translated the gold tablets to him. The tablets were supposedly dug up from a concrete vault in Smith’s back yard. They were not brought down from a mountain.
As for my lack of bible verses, I felt they had all been discussed and were known already, I only wanted to put them into a new light for people to think about.
If you think the Antichrist will be a Muslim and you are waiting for the city of Babylon to rebuilt in time for the second coming, you’ve got a long wait. Jesus may not have the same amount of patience as you.
🙂
A hill near his home is where he states an angle directed him. He never let anyone see them, but did allow them to be touched through cloth. This dude is a joke, and has mislead millions.
Anyway, I do not think the AntiChrist is Muslim, but I do lean towards a rebuilt Babylon as the set of Lucifer’s man on earth. A lot of Babylon has been rebuilt already.
I could be wrong, I just do not think so. Plus, knowone knows the day or hour Christ will come back.
Re: “Plus, knowone knows the day or hour Christ will come back.”
It will be Rosh Hashana/feast of Trumpets!
It is the only Jewish Feast day that “no one knows the day or the hour it begins”
I think it will be that season of Trumpets.
It is also said that he is coming at the “Last trump” which occurs 10 days later on Yom Kippur. This is the time the Jews are sealed.
Jesus said we would have tribulation 10 days, which fits in. Then Jesus literally has his “last week” defeating the Antichrist.
By Sukkot, feast of Tabernacles, he is with Israel, preparing to clean up the Temple.
This takes 45 days, and the temple is rededicated on Hanukkah.
James
Israel is to be invaded by the antichrist (dark leader of fierce countenance- book of Daniel) forces.
So how do you fit the Vatican into this scenario?
I ran across another one of Dr. Veith’s videos. I thought this particular one was taken off of You Tube. I like him. He’s a Seventh Day Adventist, a former Catholic. He’s a professor, a former believer in Evolution. He’s now a creationist. He has a very interesting testimony. He’s the only one talking about these things in this way. Maybe that’s why I like him.
Go over to: https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/demon-possession/
and listen to it to his testimony.
What I don’t like about Seventh Day Adventist; they are anti-rapture, anti-Israel, anti-evangelical, anti-catholic. I’ve prayed for Dr. Veith. I pray he views this blog. I pray he would come to know the truth, because I believe he wants to know the truth.
Because I can’t write, I see the connections between themes: corporatism, communism, socialism, the state, government, re-distribution. He brings out these themes in this video:
Vatican Involved in Social Engineering, Government, and Economic Interference.
Revrum Novarum
I know everyone is studying their Bibles. Watch the video. It’s fine and good to quote scripture, but apply it to tangible things you see going on. Maybe you will be able to put in words what I can’t.
In that video on https://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/america-is-still-a-christian-nation/
“The Truth Movement has been Hijacked” it states:
America is the “Military Arm”
Britain is the “Financial Arm” (The Rothschilds)
Rome is the the “Spiritual Arm”
The Rothschilds are the Synagogue of Satan. They are not “The Jewish People”.
In http://watch.pair.com/ she brings out how all these groups are connected, including evangelicals, secret societies, the Catholics, the cults, the United Nations, the Messianic Movement, and the Jews. She doesn’t seem to focus at all on “The Islamics”
No I’m not defending the Islamics. I’m just pointing out that’s not her focus..
I think it’s interesting Lyndsey and Leatherneck are starting to look at “Movies” differently. It’s because someone pointed it out to them. I read their entries above on “Superman” and “Aaron Russo”. That’s what connecting the dots is. Good Job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Since the “The Catholic Church”, is James Giordano subject maybe he can comment.
I understand it. I can’t explain it. You have to watch it. Put into words what I can’t. This is a really good lecture. Her and I are miles apart; spiritally and politically. Naomi Wolfe. She’s talking about that what she sees going on today is the same as what was going on in “Germany” during WW II
Don, what about the following: The physical phenomena in Isaiah 13: 10-13 have not been in any history of Babylon’s past, and as they take place at the time of judgement, the city must be in existence, therefore it must have been rebuilt.
Rev. 18:4, Come out of her… could mean the global system of maman worship.
Rev. 18:8, 17, 19,and 21 reads about the final destruction of Babylon.
I agree the women is the false Christiandom lead by the Universal Church, and Queen of Heaven worship. Perhaps, the seven hills are the seven economic regions in the last Empire that is global, and ruled by 10 kings.
Although, Rome has become pagan and deserves wrath, she could represent the mystery Babylon. The religion that worships the false Trinity.
Just writing my thoughts, as I can see Babylon being rebuilt, and there are hills there too.
Over.
Hi Leatherneck,
I don’t about the Babylonian aspect of it, but I know that this prophecy is speaking about “The Day of the Lord,” which is not restricted to Babylon, but affects the entire earth. The day of the Lord has other designations such as “The hour of trial,” “Day of Christ” and the “Wrath of God,” to name a few. The resurrection and catching away of the church is also designated as the day of the Lord, which takes place first and is then followed by the wrath.(1Thes.4:16;5:11) The day of the Lord is not a literal day, but is represented by the seven seals, seven trumpets and seven bowls, culminating with the return of Christ to set up His millennial kingdom. One of the prophecies is as follows:
“See, the day of the Lord is comeing– a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger– to make the land desolate and destroy the sinners within it. The stars of heaven and their contellations will not show their light. The rising sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light.” (Isa.13:9-10)
The event above is actually the sixth seal judgment found in Revelation 6:12-13:
“I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. the sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as late figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. The same prophecy can also be found in: Isa.34:4, Joel 2;10, and Mt.24:29.
But in regards to this prophecy, notice who it is directed at in the verse that follows the prophecy:
“I will punish the [world] for its evil, the wicked for their sins. I will put and end to the arrogance of the haughty and will humble the pride of the ruthless. I will make [man] scarcer than pure gold, more rare than the gold of Ophir.
So, the prophecy here is directed to the entire earth, that is, to all of mankind and not just Babylon. The fact that this event is going to affect the sun, moon and stars would suggest that this prophecy is not just for Babylon, but affects all nations.
I agree that the city must be in existance, but this chapter doesn’t speak of Babylon as being the city that rules over the kings of the earth nor is there any of the characteristics that would link it to the woman who rides the beast, other than the name Babylon. But, as I said, I believe that the Roman Catholic institution is Mystery Babylon which is referring to the fact that all the mysteries of false relgions have come out of Babylon and those pagan practices are interwoven into the Roman catholic church, ergo, Mystery Babylon. In short, if the literal city of Babylon isn’t already a super power ruling over the kings of the earth, then, in my opinion it isn’t goint happen. As the verse states:
“The woman you saw, is that great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”
As John was receiving this information from the angel, Rome was the city that ruled over the kings of the earth. Roman Catholicism is currently a billion plus stong. Throw in one of their future pope’s as the false prophet and we have a match that fits that last day scenario.
The verse that says: “Come out of her my people,” I believe will be God calling out the faithful, those who belong to God, to come out of that false religious system and out of the actual physical location of the woman who sits on seven hills, before he has the beast and the ten kings nuke her. And the reason I believe that they nuke her is for a few reasons. first, after the city is destroyed, notice that the same phrase is repeated:
“Terrified at her torment, they will [stand far off] and cry:”
“The merchants who sold these things and gained their wealth from her will [stand far off], terrified at her torment.
“Every sea captain, and all who travel by ship, the sailors, and all who earn their living from the sea, will [stand far off]”
I believe that the reason that it is mentioned that they [stand far off] is because of the nuclear fallout. The other reason that I believe that her destrucion is nuclear is because of the following verses:
“The music of harpists and musicians, flute players and trumpeters, will never be heard in you again. No workman of any trade will ever be found in you again. The sound of a milstone will never be heard in you again. The light of a lamp will never shine in you again. The voice of bridegroom and bride will never be heard in you again.” (Rev.18:22-23)
If Mystery Babylon’s destruction was just a common bombing or some other kind of destruction, the people would go in afterwards, clean up and rebuild. But as you read, there will be no more music heard in her, no workman, bride and bridegroom or anything else. So if you nuke it, then no one can go back in to clean up or rebuild because of the radio activity, which would last a very long time and kill anyone who went back in without a sealed suit.
Also, the angel reveals that the symbolism of the seven heads, represents seven hills on which the woman sits and therefore, I believe that they are seven literal hills, otherwise, the angel would be revealing symbolism on top of symbolism. I believe that the reason that the seven hills are literal is because it would give the reader a clue as to the city that is in question and what is related to that city, mainly, Rome’s false religious system. This is what I believe in regards to the following verse:
“With her the kings of the earth committed adultery and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries.” (Rev.17:2)
I believe that the reference to “committing adultery” with the woman is speaking of being involved with her false religious practices. The inhabitants of the earth are intoxicated with her adulteries, is in reference to them also partaking of the false religious practices of Roman Catholicism. Those who are within that system are led astray by the pope, cardinals, priests and all who support this false religious system. And the people are obviously allowing those in charge to interpret the word of God for them, instead of searching the Scriptures themselves to see if what Roman catholicism is teaching is in accordance with the word of God. As I said, Roman Catholicism is paganism wearing christian clothing.
It’s the same syndrome as when you see these people following those who are proclaiming to be the Messiah. They put their eternal life in the hands of these false religious leaders. But, if they had read the word of God, they would be able to spot them, because Jesus warns us about these people:
“So if anyone tells you; ‘There he is out in the desert,’ do not go out;; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.” (Mt.24:26-27)
So, those who are being misled by those who are proclaiming to be the Messiah, if they had just had read the verse above, they would know that this person could not possibly be the Messiah.
The Jehovah’s Witness group should read that verse, since their leaders are teaching them that, Jesus returned invisably to the earth and has been ruling from the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society since 1914 and that because, the dates that they kept predicting for Christ’s return never happened. If people would trust in the word of God instead of in what men are teaching, they would not be led astray.
“Look, he is coming with the clouds, and [every eye will see him], even those who pierced him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall ib be! Amen.
Babylon is a kingdom, not just a city. It was spread over what is now Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Lebanon, and Egypt, Sudan, Iran, Afghanistan, and Pakistan.
10 countries!
Babylon is an enemy of Israel.
are these the 10 horns?
Maybe…..they are…..they make a cohesive group…..but we will have to wait and see.
Those that believe the 10 kings (horns) will be from the revived roman empire think the 10 kings come from Europe.
There are 7 heads ( 7 main powers) but 10 horns (3 minor powers)
But Daniel indicated the 4th beast was a mix, and the main body of the beast (leopard) was from the revived Grecian empire, not roman.
However, it will have roman elements, like teeth, to it.
The feet will be like a bear, which is either Russia (modern definition) or Persia-Iran ( ancient definition)
So the 10 kings should represent these 3 empires.
Hello all,
Lydsey, regarding your statement:
“There are 7 heads ( 7 main powers) but 10 horns (3 minor powers)”
Revelation 17:9 makes it clear that the seven heads, which represent seven kings, that those kings have already ruled and gone, except for the last one, which is the beast. These are described as a succession of kings, for as the Scripture states from John’s time frame “Five have fallen.” So, five of those kings had already come and gone at the time the angel was giving John that information. Then he said, “One is” meaning that the sixth king was currently ruling at that very moment that the angel was giving John this information. Then he said, “The other has not yet come, but when he does come he must remain for a little while.” This was the seventh king, who was future from John’s time frame, but is in the past from ours. Then the angel said “The beast who once was, and now is not, he is an eighth king, but belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction. This eighth king is counted with the seven. And we know because of the designation given to him, which is “The beast who once was and now is not” that this is referring to that beast who is currently in the Abyss and who will be let out at the fifth trumpet. And since he is that last king and has not yet been let out of the Abyss, this king is still future from our point in time and is that beast from the Abyss.
Regarding the ten horns, as the angel told John:
“The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast.” (Rev.17:12)
So, the seven heads represent a succession of kings that have already ruled and gone, except for that last king, who is the beast. And the ten horns are ten kings, who are currently not kings, but will be given authority as kings along with the beast, which means that their rule is still future.
Regarding the following:
“But Daniel indicated the 4th beast was a mix, and the main body of the beast (leopard) was from the revived Grecian empire, not roman”
First beast – Babylon (lion)
Second beast – Medo Persia (Bear)
Third beast – Greece (Leopard)
Fourth beast – Rome (Terrifying and frightening with Iron teeth). Note: Daniel obviously did not have any known animal to compare this beast to, as it had ten horns and iron teeth, but this is obviously representing Rome. When speaking about Rome in its hay day, this is the part of Nebuchadnezzar’s statue, that is, the legs of iron are all iron with no clay mixed in. It is the kingdom that is coming that will be made of iron and partyl baked clay. There are approximately 1,800 years separating the legs of iron and the feet of iron with partly baked clay. The fact the last day kingdom has iron in it would tell us that, this kingdom is partly ruled by the same lineage of people that ruled when the kingdom was solid iron, but in the future it will be mixed with baked clay. The baked clay represents peoples, multitudes, nations and languages, that is, the clay represents a mixture of people, which is why it will not be as strong as it was previously being all iron.
“And the ten horns are ten kings, who are currently not kings, but will be given authority as kings along with the beast”
This sounds like the European Union….you think?
Hi Lyndsey,
All I know for sure, according to Scripture, is that they are ten future kings who will give their power and authority to the beast, that is, that man of lawlessness.
The ten horns sound like ten economic regions that control the New World Order. From one of these, the beast will rule the world.
That is my understanding of it. It could be seven economic regions, with ten kings ruling, then three lose their power to the beast.
later,
Anyone hear of the committee of 300????????????????????????
Here’s the video’s lecturer’s web site and some info on him.
http://loveforlife.com.au/content/09/05/19/video-wake-america-dr-john-coleman-illuminati-committee-300-1-hour-44-minutes
Link to Dr Coleman’s Website: http://www.coleman300.com
Free PDF Download Of This Book: Conspirators’ Hierarchy The Story of the Committee of 300 by Dr John Coleman 1992: (At the request of staff working for Dr Coleman we have unpublished the free pdf of this book – Arthur & Fiona Cristian – Love For Life 20th May 2009)
Conspirators’ Hierarchy The Story of the Committee of 300 by Dr John Coleman 1992
Conspirators’ Hierarchy The Story of the Committee of 300 by Dr John Coleman 1992
Former British MI6 agent who discovered documents on one of his foreign missions (Angola) that the British were there to help the Communists there NOT the people who were fighting for democracy and freedom. The documents said that these classified orders were given by a select committee of 300 individuals primarily in Western Europe. Dr. John Coleman had joined MI6 to fight Communism not help it. The discovery of these specific documents shook up his life (and worldview) as he understood it at that time. Since then, he has made it his life’s mission to unmask this mysterious group. This book reveals who they are at the time of writing (1991).
or try this version of the same video above
NWO – Wake Up America (Dr John Coleman) – Awesome – Conspiracy New World Order – 1 Hour 44 Minutes
It’s interesting to read the comments on You Tube below a video, just like we are commenting on this blog:
This is what Barbara Aho and Kelley McGinley were pointing out on their radio broadcast about disinfo:
http://watch.pair.com/audio.html
http://www.retakingamerica.com/
Let us not forget that coleman is a an agent for mi5/mi6 like a lot of people in the conspiracy crowd they are usually promoting themselves, books etc or spreading disinfo. If they were speaking the truth re, these nefarious organizations would eradicate them. I am not saying conspiracies dont exist, far from it but an easy way to spot red hearings is the mention of witchcraft and pop stars. This is disinfo sidetracking. Most of these theories have their roots in Christian fundelmentism.
Yoshi5020
6 months ago
Very important stuff, but I don’t believe everything he says. This guy says in his book that the Beatles did not write any of their songs. Now I’ve read lots of John Lennon’s interviews, and I can tell you, he was a loose cannon, i.e., not taking orders from anyone. That’s not to say a band like the Beatles wasn’t upheld and encouraged by the higher-ups, or wasn’t an inevitable product of the culture they formed, as part of their plan. Sort of like what I believe about 9/11.
AlexTronic777
7 months ago
Much of whatever `truth-scene` that existed at one point is now being discredited on a large scale, I mean, everybodys trying to debunk each other and whatever in stead of paying attention to what we actually do k n o w and can p r o v e and can use a g a i n s t t h e m to change the world. Sure hope this isnt any further wasting of my time because I need r e a l info.
The luciferan gene…given thru vaccines….mark of the beast-a must see
I just got home from the gym. I haven’t been in months. Can you believe they are scanning finger prints now and taking your phone number. I declined to do it and she gave me an information sheet on it.
I’m not worried about this phenomena, since I am a Christian. I keep pointing out how all this continues to escalate in hopes that those of you who don’t know Jesus will investigate what the scriptures have to say about these things.
For those of you and especially Marianne:
who are believers I want to give some encouragement someone sent me today because as times get harder it’s going to be discouraging.
An Angel says, ‘Never borrow from the future. If you worry about what may happen tomorrow and it doesn’t happen, you have worried in vain. Even if it does happen, you have to worry twice..’
1. Pray
2. Go to bed on time.
3. Get up on time so you can start the day unrushed.
4. Say No to projects that won’t fit into your time schedule, or that will compromise your mental health.
5. Delegate tasks to capable others.
6. Simplify and unclutter your life.
7. Less is more. (Although one is often not enough, two are often too many.)
8. Allow extra time to do things and to get to places.
9. Pace yourself. Spread out big changes and difficult projects over time; don’t lump the hard things all together.
10. Take one day at a time, but plan ahead.
11. Separate worries from concerns . If a situation is a concern, find out what God would have you do and let go of the anxiety . If you can’t do anything about a situation, forget it.
12. Live within your budget; don’t use credit cards for ordinary purchases.
13. Have backups; an extra car key in your wallet, an in the garden, extra stamps, extra battery, etc.
14. K.M.S. (Keep Mouth Shut). This single piece of advice can prevent an enormous amount of trouble.
15. Do something for the Kid in You everyday.
16. Carry a Bible with you to read while waiting in line.
17. Get enough rest
18. Eat right.
19 Get organized so everything has its place.
20. Listen to a tape while driving that can help improve your quality of life.
21. Write down thoughts and inspirations.
22. Every day, find time to be alone.
23. Having problems? Talk to God on the spot. Try to nip small problems in the bud. Don’t wait until it’s time to go to bed to try and pray.
24. Make friends with Godly people.
25. Keep a folder of favorite scriptures on hand.
26. Remember that the shortest bridge between despair and hope is often a good ‘Thank you Jesus .’
27. Laugh. Laugh some more!
28. Tell the truth.
29. Take your work seriously, but not yourself at all.
30. Develop a forgiving attitude (most people are doing the best they can).
31. Be kind to unkind people (they probably need it the most).
32. Sit on your ego.
33 Talk less; listen more.
34. Slow down, but get exercise.
35. Remind yourself that you are not the general manager of the universe.
36 Every night before bed, think of one thing you’re grateful for that you’ve never been grateful for before. GOD HAS A WAY OF TURNING THINGS AROUND FOR YOU.
‘If God is for us, who can be against us?’
(Romans8:31)
“Apple has filed a patent for a radio-frequency identification (RFID) transponder, which can be used as both an RFID tag and a reader within their iPhones. (And presumably their other portable electronics.) (15) Most experts familiar with the information believe that Apple will use this RFID technology to allow users to perform cashless transactions to pay for goods and services………..Radio Frequency Identification technology is nothing new and is already being used for several different purposes. The technology seems to be growing more common every month. RFID Journal reported on October 6, 2010, that all new national German ID cards will feature a RFID chip. (19) They claim one of the major reasons for doing so is to make online transactions easier and safer. Two school districts in Texas have added RFID chips to their student IDs to enable them to track their students wherever they go within school grounds. According to eleven year-old student, Jacorey Jackson, “It feels like someone is watching you at all times.” (20) The chips are also available as implants about the size of a grain of rice. In fact, a man named Amal Graafstra intentionally had each of his hands implanted with a RFID chip so that he can open doors without keys or start his car with the wave of a hand. (21)
I strongly suspect that much of what we are seeing in the realm of technology is a precursor to the rise of a one-world antichrist government, which will demand that we all receive a chip in our right hand or forehead if we want to buy or sell. The technology to make it all happen already exists.”
http://lasttrumpetnewsletter.org/2010/11_10.html
Hey, did anyone hear on the news that The presidents of Iran and Venezuela have signed an agreement which they describe as the beginning of a New World Order. Does anyone think that this will be the actual New World Order that produces a Muslim antichrist?
How soon do you think that the U.S. will be joining it? Maybe it will be on the ballot for the 2012 elections. This would fit with the Obama administration being the last one. Maybe not till 2016.
Asny thoughts?
HI James
I had not heard about it, but I am not surprised, if true.
Venezuela is a supporter of both Russia and Iran, and would cooperate if they wanted to shoot missiles at the USA. The USA in its current state would have to be eliminated for a NWO to exist. Bombing us, and taking over the property is an appealing concept for them.
Not sure if there will be any ballots in 2012 yet.
A must see! Lindsey Williams is talking with Alex Jones about inside information that he received directly from the source…our focus should be on China and Russia…Crude Oil…gold and silver…Elite are moving out of America and Israel….Inside trading was 1600 to 1 in October…Janet Pelosi told a friend of Lindsey’s just a month or so ago to go home and stock up on water and food….what’s going on folks?!
Important to note…what is happening now I heard about over 3 years ago pertaining to the gold and silver. The sources are evidently credible!
“the end goal is to get everybody chipped” Aaron Russo
Mark of the Beast is “in the name of Allah”!!!!!
It was written in Aramaic….and the “mark” is the Badge that is worn by Muslims…..A ha!!
720 comments later and we may have just found the answer to the age old question of who the beast really is….and no more comments…LOL
Is this a preview of what is to come?
What a great testiment this whole thread (are they still called that? Been a while…) is to the futility of religion. God is not served by debate like this. There is a simplicity to the gospel. Better put, the gospel is “simple.” It was/is to be preached to the “poor in spirit,” and to the “poor” in every catagory really. God’s true gospel can be understood by simpiltons. Like me! Any, and I mean ANY, complicated, complex, on and on and ON explanations of ANYTHING God has, does, or will minister to us people of earth testifies against itself that it is not from God. Simplisity is the true mark of God’s ministerinng. You can disect, regurgitate, disinfect, redirect all you want. The more that you do so, the further away from Jesus’ simplicity you get. Usaing the internet to back your claims… people, please! What we all have gotten away from is going to God in prayer and asking… waiting for an answer… and being content to be silent on a subject if God chooses to remain silent on it Himself. And for those of you who think that means that I am ignorant of what “The mark of the beast is” think again. I know what it is. Not by “research” or “reason” etc. But because God showed me. And it’s simple…
Greetings Garry,
I agree with you in regards to using the internet or any other source other than the word of God when providing Spiritual information and you are also correct that the word of God was given to everyone on every level. However, God also wants us to do a deeper study of his word in order to put the pieces of his puzzle together. For example, in order to understand much of the information contained within the book of revelation, you must have studied other scriptures in the OT to get the answers. Personally, I don’t go to other teachers, videos or books written by men as a learning tool for God’s word, because all of the answers can be found within his word. Many people are deceived these days because they are using what men have written as the basis for the truth instead of trusting in the word of God. Because one man writes a book denouncing Paul as being a false apostle and a liar, then you get a whole bunch of people following after him in agreement because they are trusting in the teaching of men instead of the word of God and that to their own destruction. Because of this, many today are fulfilling the prophecy that says, “For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.” For the most part, I believe that the person who is doing a greater study in the word of God in order to know the deeper meansings of his word will remain true to the simplicity of the gospel, that being Christ crucified, buried and resurrected. But for those people who have veered off the Spiritual path because of the teachings of men, who teach that salvation is still accomplished by observing the law, that the mark of the beast is not a literal mark, that the book of revelation is exagerated and not to be taken literally, or speaking against the apostles whom the Lord chose, they do these things to their own destruction. For these are not merely doctrines of difference of opion, but are faith destroying to others, for example, no one will be justified by observing the law of Moses, but by faith in the finished work of Christ alone.
So, I believe that it is important to retain the simplicity of the gospel, while at the same time continueing to become an authority and an expert in regards to his word. This way we can have fellowship, strengthening and edifying one another in our mutual faith. The person who continues in his word and puts it into practice, going from faith to faith, is destined to go from milk to meat.
Don,
Appreciate your politeness. (And, in case I forget to do so later, I am one horrible speller, so please bare that in mind all!). Please do not misunderstand me, I too have, do, and will continue to read the bible. And, as you said, most people, it seems anyway, do not realize, for lack of reading the rest of the bible, that much of what is in the Revealation of Jesus given to John is alwo in the O.T. scriptures. That includes the 666. It is in the O.T. no less then three seperate places, three seperate books. But back to the simplicity of the word, or walking with God. All that we read in the bible has been recorded for us by people who had a relationship with God, learned from him, responded to Him, heard from Him. THAT is the main and simple message of the Bible. That we too can do as they did. KNOW GOD. People spend so much time “studying the word” that they fail to HEAR what the word is all about. That God himself wants to fellowship with us mere humans. Anyway, that is just some late night ramblings of a tired snowed in man in Kansas…
Hi Garry, welcome to the discussion.
While I am glad to hear that some folks like yourself and Don can simply read the bible and completely understand its deep and complex meanings, there are many people like myself with inadequate memories to be able to remember everything you read in the Old Testament by the time you reach the Book of Revelation. So I appreciate the fact that many devout researchers have taken entire lifetimes to do nothing but memorize the bible and try to relate all of the pertinent passages so they can be properly understood.
There is a lot of symbolism in the bible and many references to previous “types” of events. Almost everything in end time events has had a similar “type” happen in the past, including the mark of the beast, so putting all the pieces together can take an awful lot of work.
So I believe a person can learn a lot by studying the bible from many different sources, always keeping an open mind and realizing that not everyone is 100% correct. You must trust in your intellect, logic or the Holy Spirit to guide you in these matters.
But if you have been called as the apostles were, to spread the gospel among the heathen, you can’t just hand someone a bible and say “Here – read this and you will be saved.” There may not even be enough time left for anyone to figure it all out before it is too late.
We are all called to spread the gospel wherever we go if possible, as we are also called to prophesy. We are following these commands here in this blog, and we all welcome the opinions of others, just in case we might learn something important we might have missed the last time we read the good book.
For example, you noted that you are certain of what the mark of the beast is. This is important information for all of us as it might just help up save our souls. So feel free to share that little bit of information if you like. It’s why we are all here.
So here is your chance to maybe save a soul or two, and don’t worry about the spelling, very few of us were ever professional typesetters.
God bless.
Wow… I don’t know what to say. I guess I wrote to you, “I appreciate your politeness” prematurely! Your response was dripping with sarcastic scorn (ending with “God bless” of course!). So unlike Jesus. Anyway, I can only guess that you were put off by my putting “studying the word” in quotes and assumed that I was belittling the study of the bible. I certainly was not. My meaning was that, like the Pharasees, many of “us” do as they did. Paul put it this way, “Ever learning but never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.” Anyway, I am not interested in “fighting” with anyone. So I will abandon my posting here and go away. Sorry to take up your time.
Hello again Gary,
In case you ever want to share and discuss the word (Fellowship):
d.mcallister@cox.net
dear Garry
I do not see the sarcasm you are complaining about. I do not see any fight here. It looked like James was trying to be friendly to you. I hope you will reconsider.
ok. I sent you an email at that address. Mine is a hotmail address, so look for it as you need to with what you have set up on you account, ok? Check the subject line to know that it is me.
garry
Hi Marianne,
Do you know a woman named Franklin?
nope
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