America the Restrainer
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Traditionally, the Holy Spirit has been regarded as the restrainer of evil, and once removed, evil will dominate.
This is a look at a more physical interpretation of who else could be a restrainer.
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View # 1: Spirit of Elijah ministers – the Holy Spirit
http://spiritofelijah.co.uk/TheRestrainer.aspx
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View # 2 : Focus on Jerusalem Ministry – the Church
http://focusonjerusalem.com/worldwithoutrestraints2.html
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View # 3 : (White horse media) – Rome, not the church:
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View # 4 : James Lloyd : America
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***Note:
This author’s viewpoint is that a pre-tribulation rapture is not true.
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AMERICA AS THE RESTRAINER WILL BE TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY
Ancient Belief Among Christians Said Roman Empire Was The Restrainer Long Before Rapture Concept
Many politically sensitive observers shudder to think of what would happen around the world if the global order that America has provided for decades were suddenly diminished, or even removed.
Prophetically speaking, the Scriptures speak of a supernaturally engineered restraint, which holds back an ancient evil — but the New Testament also predicts that restrainer will be removed.
The Rapture concept, that tiny European group from the mid 19th century that spread through England and exploded with growth in America, put forth the idea this “restrainer” was the Holy Spirit indwelling believers, and that when the so-called “Rapture” happened, the Holy Spirit (as the restrainer) would be removed from the Earth, and evil would dominate.
Anyone who has actually studied early church history has learned the Rapture was unheard for about 18 centuries; however, one of the most interesting aspects of studying what was believed is found in the aforementioned view that Rome actually restrained the evil in its day.
This is particularly interesting because we have come to the perspective that America is a parallel kingdom to the Roman Empire and, because each of the kingdoms in the Christian era have recapitulated strikingly similar cycles to their ancient counterparts, we are convinced that America is restraining what the Apostle John called The Spirit of Antichrist.
The definition of restraint is quite broad, but the key to identifying such things is to ask just what (or who) was being restrained.
The book of Acts clearly shows the primary opponent of the truth of the Gospel in the first century was the power of the unbelieving Jews.
There are repetitive accounts which show the Apostles maneuvered within the Roman structure as a defensive posture to escape the Jewish unbeliever’s power.
The Apostle Paul, for instance, ultimately appealed to Caesar as a last ditch effort to escape being murdered in Jerusalem.
Because Rome/Judea was seen in the first timeline doesn’t prove the pattern repeats identically.
Indeed, if global Islam has any impediment at all (read restraint), we would have to say it is America.
Thus, if America were to “be taken out of the way” (II Thessalonians 2:7), global Islam would be emboldened to ignite the world into a much deeper military crisis than the various wars we’re already seeing — and it’s not hard to see who will be attacked.
In such an all out conflict, Israel will be compelled to use the deadliest weapons they have, and the world will be plunged into a period usually called the Great Tribulation.
This is precisely what is going to occur, but since most of the believers are all tightly packed into that Rapture bus as they figure it’s leaving soon, they are not considering this possibility.
However, for those who have ears to hear the truth, we’ll remind the truly inquiring mind that it is indeed the truth that will set you free.
For more on the truth about the prophesied restrainer, and the role of America in Bible Prophecy, see the video on THE PRINCE OF AMERICA.
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View # 5 : Perry Stone – America
http://www.geocities.com/rebornempowered/visions/1997attackvision4.htm
http://www.voe.org/store/index.php/cds/2cd-audio-album/2cd325-america-the-restrainer-of-evil.html
The Bible predicts a restrainer in the earth, holding back the rise of the Antichrist.
On his 2-CD audio teaching album, Perry reveals the four restrainers God is using on earth today, including America.
Much of the world is angry and envious of America; however, without our military influence the world would be a dangerous place.
Perry explains how the throne room of God becomes a war room, and why God uses wars to fulfill His divine purpose on the earth.
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1. What will cause the rapture of the church and the resurrection of the dead
2. What is going to trigger the war of Gog and May Gog (Armageddon)
3. What is going to trigger the rise of the Anti Christ
1. What will cause the rapture of the church and the resurrection of the dead
When all these things happen at one time
• Matthew 24:14 — Preaching of the Gospel around the World
• Romans 11:25 — Fullness of the Gentiles coming in to kingdom
• Acts 2:16-17 — Holy Spirit poured out globally
2. What is going to trigger the war of Gog and May Gog (Armageddon) – Ezekiel 38 and 39 — Islamic nations
Three theories
1. Oil will be discovered in Israel — Arabs have enough oil they could care less
2. Wealth of the dead sea — Deal with Jordan and there is only so much stuff they could get out of the Dead Sea
3. Palestinian issue — some but not all
• Ezekiel 38:12-13 — (Islamic armies) will come up and take a spoil and they will go into the area of Bashan
• Ezekiel 38:4 — God says I will put a hook in your Jaw and will bring you down — Hook — Food — Fred Stone Perry Stones father saw this. He saw a famine that is coming and that it would be worse for Jewish hating countries. If nations in the middle east don’t store food thousands of their people will be starving — Jaw — Eating
3. What is going to trigger the rise of the Anti Christ — 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8
Restrainers Coming
• Three main restrainers –
1. Word of God — Given to keep us from sinning
2. Holy Spirit
3. Daniel 12:1 — Michael The Ark Angel
• America is also a restrainer — Americas armies are stopping religious fanatics from doing destruction on the entire world; God is using America to preach the Gospel to the World — When the restrainer is removed the wicked shall appear — When the church is removed then the spirit of the Anti Christ can be in full reign
• The return of Christ to catch up the church restrainer
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Marianne’s note
Maybe throughout time, God has used different empires as restrainers, to work under the influence of the Holy Spirit to achieve the restraint of evil.
Restraint can occur on a physical level, as well as on a spiritual one.
Each one of us should be a restrainer of evil as well.
As individuals, we should be restrainers, and as nations also.
If America is truly a restrainer of evil, then its fall, or removal, would be necessary to fulfill prophecy, and usher in the antichrist.
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Other reading:
http://www.prophecyforum.com/gano/restrainer.html
http://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-teacher/is-america-the-restrainer-of-2-thes-27/
http://www.voe.org/store/index.php/2cd325-america-the-restrainer-of-evil.html
http://www.etsjets.org/files/JETS-PDFs/33/33-4/33-4-pp445-449_JETS.pdf
http://nathanlewis.org/2009/05/07/common-grace-restraint-of-evil/
Heaven Awaits 
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America the Restrainer « Heaven Awaits said this on June 11, 2011 at 5:08 pm |
Hello Marianne I think Patriotism can be very blinding, being British and Scottish/Irish, with an Irish Catholic Mother and a Scottish Protestant Father, and being born into the Proudest part of Britain, (Scotland) bearing in mind that the British Monarchy officially is sworn to uphold the ‘true Religion’ of the Puritans. Our Current Queen made a reference to our greatest Treasure being the English Bible when she was being sworn in. I think our Blood (patriotism) is one of the most deceptive things and the hardest to see through and let go. I think it is a bit of a blessing coming from a ethnically and religiously mixed background, because I know that they can’t all be right even though at times in my life I have been zealous on a few contradictory positions, Catholic, Protestant, Scottish, British, Irish, I’ve had them all ‘call’ at one time or other, and the amount of Blood shed between these groups is beyond measure, as for the Christian, I believe we have always been called out. Matthew 10:37 puts Kin and Clan Nation and earthly Kingdom all in the same place, under Christ.
On America I think a very in depth and thought provoking study is Chris Pintos Four Part Documentary. Here is the First, Secret Mysteries of Americas Beginnings Volume 1 , the fourth is ‘Hidden Faith of the Founding Fathers,’
On Americas early Christian Heritage This is also Good. Megiddo II, There well researched and produced, worth the time.
If America or Rome or Britain were ever a restraining force it was because of the Christians within them and the Spirit within them, or simply the hand of God. To merge any nation with God has got to be wrong, as Paul said in me there is no good thing, and all his fellow Isrealites could have said the same if they could see. God Used Assyria as the Rod of His indignation and yet they were godless. Isaiah 10:5 O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation….
I believe America has played a very important part in the history of the world, helping people a nations in need but also America is reponsable for many atrocities around the world and here at home. Let’s not forget the prices other coltures paid for America to be what it is today. Also, America’s politians have a very different agenda thatn that of God. Human rights, Abortion, Gay rights and others are some of those evil things America supports that are totally against the word of God.
MHO.
The pictures of the soldier with the child absolutely broke my heart 😥 …….. I am thankful every single day that my children do not have to go through this as of now, and I pray they never will.
Well that is a nice, (though perhaps a little arrogant) sounding theory, but it is simply not possible.
Remember that Paul wrote this epistle almost 2000 years ago, and that what we refer to as North America had not been visited by anybody until the Vinkings in the 11 th. century and the actual colonization of America did not begin until after Christopher Columbus and John Cabot had discovered different coastlines in 1492 and 1498 respectively. Therefore, could America even be possibly considered as being represtentitive of the “he”?
In 2 Thessalonians 2:7., the verse reads as follows in transliterated Greek;
” Gar [for] musterion [of] anomia energeo ede energeo: monon [he who] arti katecho [will let] heos [he be] givnomai [out] ejk [the] mesos.”
This then was translated into English within the King James as; “For the mystery of iniquity doth already work : only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.”
This would indicate that the “mystery of iniquity”, (“satan”, or the “man of sin” which is clearly defined as the “he” in verse 6) is already at work during Paul’s time, (and since the beginning of the fall) and it is only “he” that letteth, (which God the Spirit could only fulfill this in context) will let “until he” (which would again could only be God) is taken out of the way.
Therefore in taking into account the above, it is simply not logically plausible to consider the “he” in verse “7”, to represent either an individual, or any Nation, for only God would have the capacity to restrain satan and evil.
Just my thoughts.
Be Blessed
My words. Americans would like to see the military as the glorious hero in the fight for freedom while in reality the military complex is largely responsible for the problems they pretend to solve. Remember the king of Babylon. My power and my glory! The USA haven’t been tested yet. With Russia and China combined they might look very feeble. There are many honest people in the US but they are ruled by ruthless criminals who are still to arrive at the peak of iniquity.
hi alienated.. good thoughts and absolutely on I suspect. There has been so much conjecture on this scripture and so much distortion it is good to read your thoughts on it. Though I have high regard for the American people and know that they are not the only Western nation to suffer the assault of the Politically Correct Lefts abandonment of reason and righteousness by allowing the horrors of the slaughter of millions of unborn and so maniy other vile teachings as well as becoming the mouthpiece and pro-Islamic protector and excuser of violent Islam today I suspect there is much more to this.
Belief in the Rapture did occur in the early church. Holly Deyo has written an article
which details the various early churchmen who wrote about the Rapture. See her article on Standeyo.com website. I think it would be archived under “Spiritual”. I believe Holly is correct, and others have put forth similar lists of those in the early church who
believed in the Rapture. One other modern believer who has made lists, although shorter than Holly’s, is Jack Van Impe. I am speaking here of the pre-Trib Rapture or possibly the Mid-Trib.
I am flabberghasted at even trying to unravel whether America is a restrainer or insrigator of our ongoing wars. Most of those who write about “End Times” and the Illuminati consider America’s powerbrokers to be a part of the illuminati, who are said to
provoke war for economic gain and ultimate global power. This does not mean
that there are not wonderful individuals, like the soldiers in the pictures you have here,
who expend themselves and even die to defend the poor, the widow, the orphan, and
all who are devastated by war, famine, and terrorism.
England and other great colonial powers played a similar role….both conquering
indigenous people and “civilizing” them. E. M Forster’s “A Passage to India” is a great
enigmatic novel which portrays this dual role that Britain had in India, asking the question of whether it was “good” or “bad” that Britain interfered in India. To be sure,
much Christianizing was done through this colonial power, and the bottom line here
was mostly good, and often worked by the Holy Spirit. Many saints died in the service
of conquered peoples, and they would not have gone to them without the army entering first.
For those who do disagree that America has been a restrainer, a good question to ask is what if we did not get involved in WW I and II? Would Europe be under communism or nazism today? Where would democracy be today, if Americans had an isolationist policy, like China did for centuries? Since America is the biggest giver of charity and financial aid in the world, what shape would all the starving and poor countries be without American christian charities?
Hi Marianne,
If you were perhaps referring to me and my comment within your post here, I would like to clarify something. I am not saying that the “States” has not been influential at all in past historical events, or that they won’t be influential as well in the future. I acknowledge that completely.
However it is within the context of the verse itself. that I have a problem. I just don’t believe that the “he” in verse 7 can be representative as to being anything other than that of God.
Be Blessed
Well Marianne actually let’s not forget that America refused to get into WWII until she was attacked by Japan and it was her own lefts ‘peace’ rallying ignorance and cries that prevented her because those people did not have the foresight to care about the ovens of Hitler already buring a Jewish people, at least until Pearl Harbours’ destruction. I do not think there was much differnce between the allies already involved and instigated by Churchill and defended fiercely by the Brits and other allies to make them more than the sword of the Lord utilized at different times this last 150 years.
Rev 2-7…For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth [will let], until he be taken out of the way. This is so very serious…This mystery of iniquity is that Satan is the god of Abraham….Lots of Christians think Allah is the same God as the Christians and Jews god.. Namely the God of Abraham.. Those that allow this lie to remain with them will be taken out of THE WAY OF CHRIST.. No longer Sons of God. They become sons of Satan…
Paul tells us there will come a falling away from Christ because of the deception..These fall away to the deceptions of antichrist and leave the way of Christ….It is happening now….IT is called Chrislam… These are teaching the gospel of antichrist Koran along with the Bible in these Chrislam churches……
Paul said this mystery of iniquity already was at work even then.. This mystery of iniquity is Satan claiming he is the God of Abraham and indwelling his followers….
Allah sits in the temple of God (our bodies are the temple of God) and shouts he is the God of Abraham…The son of perdition that will be revealed will be those Satan indwells..Satan indwelling a man is what constitutes son or sons of perdition..
The group of antichrist that was among the apostles then is in John 8….These are the men who had Jesus killed…
These men professed to be Sons of Abraham.. But Jesus said these were sons of Satan and only Seed of Abraham..These men were not of ISaac/Abraham and therefore not real Jews.. These were also of Idumea and forced converted to Judaism during Jewish wars.. The two herods likewise were not of Isaac but of Ishamel ..They were Arabians…History confirms that Idumea was populated with Esau and Ishamel’s descendants..The men of John 8 denied Jesus was son of God and had him killed for saying he was…
These were the antichrist spirit of Paul’s days… Their doctrines and customs as recorded in the Bible are identical to Islam’s doctrines and customs…
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2 Thess. 2-9 shows Satan as also being destroyed…Satan comes as a man also but he comes as a messiah.. Namely Mohammed..and also of course his predecessor who comes in final hour…
The key word in 2 Thessalonians 2 and verse 6 is REVEALED..
Verse 2…Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be REVEALED, the son of perdition;
Paul clearly tells us some will fall away from Christ and become sons of perdition (children of satan)…V. 6..And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be REVEALED in his time.
Paul shows us that these sons of perdition will not be revealed untill they become so corrupt they fall away from Christ…He said FOR THAT DAY SHALL NOT COME EXCEPT THERE COME A FALLING AWAY FIRST…Paul repeats this scenario in V. 7 and 8…He says those that allow the mystery of iniquity (believing allah is the God of Abraham) will be taken out of the way of CHrist…and this will REVEAL the wicked (sons of perdition)…
CHRISLAM CHURCHES LEAD TO HELL…
Marianne
I agree that the USA is a part of the restrainer that is physical, so was and is Israel and England.
Do we know how many years the Cherokee Indian Tribe has exsisted? It has been proven that they practice Judism and many of them still do. There sheilds of war contained the drawing of the temple. That means to me that the Jews might have been here before Christopher Columbus.
The group of Jews who have been responsible for looking for the 10 lost tribes of Israel claim to have discovered and or evaluated this fact in the Cherokee indian tribe, is my understanding.
No one could figure out why this one particular indian tribe was fare skin. They burned and turned red not tan. How did they have blue eyes? Why did they sacrifice and butcher meat in Kosher manners. Why did they keep a fire burning? How did they know the books of the old testament stories? We don’t know other then to say either God brought the faith to a bunch of Indians in this northern continent or the Jews were here.
Do I think that we are arrogant? God doesn’t want any of us to be arrogant but is it possible that God will treat a nation of believers differently separately from the leaders? Only time will tell based upon our leaders supporting dividing the nation of Israel.
I am sure that everyone here remembers when this President after being elected spoke about our God making people slaves, about war and about God killing off groups of people. He was arrorogant I think to speak of God, in the manner he did.
Faith, hope, freedom and charity is what our country has always been known for and the liberty we have enjoyed because of the shed blood of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
Many people speak against our nation and I wonder how often they travel out side of our nation? or What they truly know about the rest of the world. Our nation is not perfect. God said we as flesh-saints are as filthy rags before him. We have always (not just the government) given to the hungry and down trodden. Some times when God has been so good, maybe we have been arrogant? But should we consider all things, not just the wrong things.
Is it a sin for man to defend his home and this possessions?
Please don’t misunderstand I hate war and the shedding of blood. But I am with Marianne, if we had not been around in some of the major cases (ww1-11-?) what would have happened. Every nation is going to give count by their leaders for all solutions and issues generated. If Hillary and President Obama started the wars in
the middle east and are unable to answer correctly to God , he will deal accordingly.
Unfortunately it may be at the judgment bar or it could be tomorrow.
We are not to have pride but are we allowed to give thanks for overcoming our enemy?
Well not many people know this of the Cherokee pattiform and I think what you have said here is true but, we cannot forget that the Lord says that the Nations are G-d’s Sword and those who stood against Hitlers’ abominable slaughters were His Sword drawn without a doubt and I do not doubt that the vile slaughter of the towers by Muslims instigated the use of America as His Sword against the Islamic Beast who follows its False Prophet and Satan seeking the destruction of all non-Muslims. This was no accident and when we read ‘ in the day that the towers fell’ in the incredible book of Isaiah (30 – 33) it is only the beginning of the falling of the towers on the earth, and I think the Lord began to judge Islam with Americas’ righteous slaughter of the Butcher of Bagdad. None of this is an accident.
Hello Marianne and all,
Hope everyone is doing well today. When I saw this post I had to respond and that because the inference that America, that is, the US as being the restrainer is, forgive me, but just ludicrous. Let’s look at the verse:
“For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but the one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way.” (2 Thes.2:7)
In the verse above, Paul is speaking in the present and future tenses as can be seen by the fact that Paul says, “But the one who [now] holds it back,” which would infer that lawlessness and the man of lawlessness were currently being held back at the time of the writing of this epistle and then Paul goes on to say that ,the restrainer “Will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way,” which would infer an on-going act of restraining until the one who is doing the restraining is taken out of the way, which by the way is still a future event. Also, the way in which the verse is written it would imply that Paul knew who the restrainer was.Therefore, since it is obvious that the US was not a world force at the time that Paul wrote to the Thessalonians, then the US could not have been the one restraining during Paul’s time. and is not who is in view here.
When interpreting Scripture, we must look at every facet of what is being said, how it is said, every word, every clue as well as to related Scriptures.
Yours in Christ
hi Don,
The implication here is that individuals and nations can also restrain evil, if they are in line with the will of God, and under the direction ( consciously, or subconsciously) of the holy spirit. Otherwise, they are part of the evil.
The post did not mean that America was around at the time of Paul, but that the human component was. Throughout history, God has used righteous man, and sometimes unrighteous man, to do his will.
Also, when the presence of the holy spirit is no longer in America, America will no longer be a restrainer of evil.
Hello Marianne and all,
Marianne, the problem with your theory that the restrainer is using earthly agencies in order to restrain is in error, for the emphasis of restraining is upon the restrainer himself. To infer that he is restraining by the use of human components, that is, by nations and their military is simply an assumption, as this is nowhere inferred to in Scripture.
The restrainer is referred to as “The one” and “He” and therefore, the restrainer is spoken of as an individual entity and nowhere in the verse does it state that he is incorporating mankind in order to restrain. Furthermore, the restrainer is said to be holding back not only the man of lawlessness from being revealed, but he is also restraining the full impact of lawlessness itself, which is sin. I hardly beleive that neither the US or any other nation could be responsible for holding back sin.
No doubt this is the heart of it Marianne and we of the west (probably the one leg of Daniels’ statue) have all come from Rome and Rome did restrain the evil of both Islam and the thousand years darkness of the Papacy though in this instance when Rome was removed Islam came forward with its vile false prophet, a pedophile and slaughterer and usurper of the Holy Land and the Cradle of Christianity (the fall of the Byzantines as well as the 7 Churches of Revelation that lost their Candlestick strangely totally ignored by most Christians in there seeking a future ‘Anti-Christ and The Great Tribulation’ that is so foolish it is beyond belief. An old Handbook of Halleys points out that the Euphrates that dried up that brought the locust horde forward that devoured in all its stages was exactly that, Islam the Mohammedan scourge (or of the same peoples Assyrian,Babylonian etc all the nations that were different stages of the eventual Islam today Joel), completely ignored by Christendom even today. No doubt Rome was removed just as Revelation 17 said the Beast that ‘was’ (nations Assyria, Babylon, Egypt, Turkey tc,before) ‘and is not’ (Rome at the time of John was not of the Islamic but would be removed and become the apostate church) ‘and yet is’ (made up of all the Middle east nations they conquered and would rise and consume old Rome) and is to come as Islam did come and now has consumed all these original kingdoms of old the scripture speaks of. We cannot ignore the fact that ‘Satans Seat’ in the letters to the seven churches is in Turkey, once the head of the Ottomans and still Islamic as a new head of Islam is rising, their elusive search for the old caliphates, and knowing this is Satans’ seat should tell all intelligent people that that which was holding back was probably Rome and that which came where Satan’s seat is, is Islam. I know this is an old post but the rhetoric and sad doctrines that ignore the last 4000 years history of man are always ignored by most well meaning Christians.
Don,
Did you even read the post before you made a comment? I don’t think you did given your ability to not be ludicrous as your above post implies.
Hi Leatherneck, marianne and all,
To answer your question, of course I read the post and that is why I commented on it. The gist of what Marianne was proclaiming is that the Holy Spirit may be restraining by means of using Nations, their military and individuals to restrain with. My point is that, the verse is speaking of the restrainer as being an individual, as can be identified in the following verses:
“For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work; but [The One] who now holds it back will continue to do so till [He] is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed;”
So in the verses above, the one who is doing the restraining is identified as a single individual with no mention of him utilizing nations, military or other individuals in order to do the restaining. To infer this, would be to read into the Scripture what is not there, that is, to make an assumption.
Furthermore, this restrainer is not only holding back the lawless one from being revealed at his proper time, but he is also holding back lawlessness, which is sin, from its full strength being unleashed. Nations could not be used to hold back lawlessness because the inhabitants of the earth, along with the powers of darkness, are part of the problem. It would be like using evil to restrain evil. The evil of mankind is exactly why the Day of the Lord is coming as well as that man of lawlessness, whom the world is going to fall in love with. Simply put, the powers of darkness and the principalities are being held at bay, so that the full force of sin is currently still being restrained as well as that man of sin, but once that restrainer is removed, then the full force of sin is going to come rushing in with that man of sin leading the way.
I hope that this sheds some more light on the subject.
Yours in Christ
WOW! You covered lots of interesting perspectives…all of which are biblically ‘deep’ stuff. Way too much to comment on with biblical back-up…lol.. I do see God as the Restrainer though He does use nations as tools in His hand to dispense blessing, mercy, and judgement on peoples of the world. Concerning Jews as early opponents of the gospel, Rapture vs Second Coming, America being taken out of the way, War of Gog and Magog (Armageddon), preaching gospel around the world (as witness to all nations), and fullness of the Gentiles…..I have covered all these discussions using Bible references at my website (internetelias.wordpress.com). The following posts address these issues: Mark of the Beast: God’s Decision, Corrie Ten Boom: Tribulation Then Rapture, Fullness of the Gentiles: Restoration of the Remnant, Remnant Can’t ‘Hear’ the Gospel, Tribulation-Second Coming-Armageddon. I am not promoting my web site…far from it. Your post is so very interesting….and so very ‘deep’ biblically. Too deep to comment on without lots of Bible back-up. The posts I listed were done with much study and much Bible reference. I mention them only for those who might be interested in a ‘deep’ look-see related to the many things you’ve highlighted in your post.
Hi internet Elias
I just added a link to your site on here. I think you have a lot to offer and I should have added a link to you long ago. There is no way people can get everything on one site, so they should visit many sites.
Genesis 8
Also the fountains of the deep and the [a]floodgates of the sky were closed, and the rain from the sky was RESTRAINED; and the water receded steadily from the earth, and at the end of one hundred and fifty days the water decreased.
It must be difficult understanding the bible when you don’t know what it is talking about!
Thought you all might like to see this information most Americans don’t have a clue
where all of the hard earned money is going. We must ” trust God”, no matter what.
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-06-13/imf-state-backed-cyber-attack-follows-hacks-of-atomic-lab-g-20.html
Be blessed and pray for the levy’s and damns. All 6 that hold back the flood water are old and have issues. We need God to put Angels where man failed. God
never fails, he is never late and he is always on time.
Come on Chaps and Chapesses, Work out what (or who) restrained the rain of Noah and you willn have your ‘restrainer’.
Marianne
Is this not the true answer and everything else is the supporters used by Michael.
Daniel 12:1 “AT that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your
People.
Since the John 15:36 identifies the Holy Spirit as:
The comforter
The spirit of truth
Counselor of peace
The comforter
He in my opinion can’t be the restrainer.
If you noticed in Daniel when Gabriel showed up to deliver the message, he mentioned he was going to the Prince of Persia to have war. He said when he left the Prince of Greece will show up.
In Daniel it says that the period known as t he desolation and the beginning of the 1260 days of the final tribulation of Gods’ Wrath:
Michael is the Angel over the nation of Israel and England (all of her territories and nations) and the USA (all of her territories) which were birthed out of the nation of Israel. They according to the Jews who study the missing tribes located through out the world say the USA is representative of Jacobs youngest grandson (Ephraim) and the eldest is England (Menasseh)
Matthew 24:15 “So when you see the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet Daniel, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16) then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 27) Let the one who is on the housetop not go down to take what is in his house, 18) and let the one who is in the field not turn back to take his cloak. 19) And alas for women who are pregnant and for those who are nursing infants in those days! 20) Pray that your flight may not be in winter or on a Sabbath. 21) For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, and never will be.
It says: And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book.
Paul 2 Thessalonians letter chapter 2:1-17—1) Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers. 2.) not to be quickly shaken in mind or alarmed, either by a spirit or a spoken word, or a letter seeming to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3) let one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4) who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. 5) Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6) And you know what is retraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. 7) For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work. Only he who now retrains it will do so until he is out of the way. 8) And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will kill with the breath
of his mouth and bring to nothing by the appearance of his coming. 9) The coming of the lawless one is by activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, 10) and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
Revelations 12:5 She gave birth to a male child, one who is to rule all the nations with a rod of Iron, but her child was caught up to God and to his throne. 6) and the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, in which she is to be nourished for 1260 days.
Daniel 10:21 But I will tell you what is inscribed in the book of truth: there is none who contends by my side against these except Michael, your prince.
Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly reals.
Daniel 11:22 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.
Daniel 9:25 “Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven ‘sevens.’ And sixty-two ‘sevens.’ It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. 26) After the sixty-two ‘sevens,’ the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing. The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. 27) He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven. In the middle of the ‘seven he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing (of the temple) he will set up and abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out of him.
Daniel 11:22-28 Then an overwhelming army will be sent away before him; both it and a prince of the covenant will be destroyed. 23) After coming to an agreement with him, he will act deceitfully, and with only a few people he will rise to power. 24 When the richest princes feel secure, he will invade them and will achieve what neither his fathers nor his forefathers did. He will distribute plunder, loot and wealth among his followers. He will plot the overthrow of fortresses—but only for a time. 25) “With a large army he will stir up his strength and courage against the king of the South. The king of South will wage war with a large and very powerful army, but he will not be able to stand because of the plots devised against him. 26) Those who eat from the king’s provisions will try to destroy him; his army will be swept away, and many will fall in battle, 27) The two kings, with their hearts bent on evil, will sit at the same table and lie to each other, but to no avail, because an end will still come at the appointed times. 28) The king of the North will return to his own country with great wealth, but his heart will be set against the holy covenant. He will take action against it and then return to his own country.
This article is a discussion about the “restrainer”, being either the Holy Spirit or Michael the Arch Angel. The author, after presenting his data, believes it to fully be Michael. I believe that many Messianics and Jews also believe it is Michael.
http://www.watchmanbiblestudy.com/BibleStudies/Definitions/Def_Restrainer.htm
Marianne
The site you gave me brought a good point about the Holy Spirit. If it is us because the of the Holy Spirit living in us then this some what makes since to me also.
If the Bride is taken away then the church, the ready virgins will no longer be on the earth to restrain.
It says it is one person my understanding according to the scripture. So if the restrainer is the Holy Spirit in us then. That is too many people? So then going
to the thought that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are all one. Is the restrainer
God?
How ever when it speaks of the Body in the church it speaks of us fit together, legs, arms and various parts of one body having need for one another.
Just as a side note, on the Coat of Arms of Prince Charles, there is a Unicorn with a gold chain around it’s neck. The gold chain goes down to a gold ring, on the base of the coat of arms, that holds the chain. Interestingly, the gold ring is called a restrainer. I know there are those that say that Prince Charles is the anti-christ. I am not saying that. But it is interesting that a mythical creature (unicorn), which has been called a symbol of the anti-messiah, has a gold chain around it’s neck attached to a “restrainer”.
Below is a link that that shows the Coat of Arms
Ashupertz
Could the dragon just be another sign that it is in this time that the anti-christ will rise?
It does however in some way seem that the dragon is the foundation of his place. The
clue about the restrainer is interesting also. I have also heard many say that they feel
he is the anti-christ.
I don’t see what it is that Prince Charles does that puts him out there to be anything, but England like the USA are a part of the G8. The information I reviewed on it and what is going on regarding large sums of money missing is scary of itself.
I think it is possible that both the USA and England will play some role in the end-time
sorrows. But I also believe that there are so many believers in those nations and their territories and in the parts of the world they carried the goodness too that God is more represented in the hearts of those men than the wicked one.
It is as if the missing shoe will drop soon. We know more and see more every day regarding the end. Now last week the announcement of the oil (250 billion barrels) in
Israel kind of blows the middle east threat to take them down. There is talk about what Israel will reduce the oil to per barrel to get back at them. But to me it just says how good God is!! Whatever we need shows up not to early but never late. He covers us as the word says as his children.
Be blessed
Well actually to use the term ‘the restrainer’ denotes a different idea, it is possible, than the scripture in fact may mean. The secret or silence of illegality (violation of law) or wickedness that holds down would continue to hold down until it is taken out of the way (actual words from the Greek) could very probably have been Rome who slew the Christ and whose coming emporer Hadrian would build a temple to Jupiter (whose statue of Jupiter is now Peter now in the Vatican list of Idols in Rome) on the Holy of Holies that would be destroyed by Islam and replaced with the abomination of desolation set up by muslims that stands now in Jerusalem. The violation of law which is the exact translation from Greek for the term iniquity used, is probably Rome that already ruled in Judea at the time this was written. There is a lot more to these scriptures than many of the mens doctrines commented on in here actually say. Well actually than most Christians want to or choose to discuss since it seems to be more fun to play with far of ideologies than our mundane realities. To top it off the statue of Daniel that today still make up one might say all the Islamic countries and Europe countries that came out of Rome and the legs of iron are all to be destroyed by Christ that returns so the removal of Rome of Pauls day is (and God is the great mover of all things He lifts up and brings down rulers and nations) done in fact from within Rome and as for Israel and Jerusalem it is is the Mohammedan evil that comes.
TEST….TEST…. 1-2-3-4-
Hi Pattie, Ashupertz and all,
If I may jump in here Pattie and Ashupertz,
Pattie said:
“Could the dragon just be another sign that it is in this time that the anti-christ will rise?”
Response:
First we must understand who the dragon is and to find that out please see the following:
“And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. But he was not stong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. The great dragon was hurled down–that ancient serpent, called the devil, or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.” (Rev.12:7-9)
So, as can be seen from the verses above, the dragon is identified as Satan who will eventually be thrown out of heaven with his angels during the middle of that last seven years before Christ returns to establish his millennial kingdom.
Also, we know that after Satan and his angels are thrown out of heaven and are restricted to the earth that he gives his power and authority to the beast as can be seen in the following verse:
“The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority. (Rev.13:2)
So, as can be seen from the verse above, once Satan is restricted to the earth, he will give his power and authority to the beast. This also shows that Satan and this beast, who is also called the man of lawlessness and the antichrist
are two individual entities, that is, Satan is not the beast spoken of here in revelation. So, who is the beast?
“They had tails and stings like scorpions, and in their tails they had power to torment people for five months. They had as king over them the angel of the Abyss, whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in Greek, Apollyon. (Rev.9:10-11)
At the time of the blowing of the 5th trumpet, an angel will unlock the Abyss, letting out demonic beings who will torment the inhabitants of the earth for five months with tails that sting like scorpions. The verse states that they have a king over them whose name is Abaddon or Appolyon which both mean “Destroyer.” Therefore, at the time that the Abyss is opened and these demonic beings come out, so also does their king who is the angel of the Abyss, which is that beast that Satan gives his power and authority to, with which he will then control his human counter part.
This is the same beast who after coming up out of the Abyss, kills the two witnesses of God as seen in the following verses:
“Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them and overpower and kill them.” (Rev.11:7)
The above will take place during the middle of that last seven years.
This beast also belongs to the seven heads of the scarlet beast, which was represented as Satan as a whole in chapter 12. Satan as the dragon, is the one who is orchestrating everything. The seven heads , for one, represent seven kings. The beast who comes up out of the Abyss is an eighth king who is counted as belonging to the seven. He is that beast that will be ruling during those last seven years. (Rev.17:9-11)
During that time, this beast will also be proclaiming himself to be God as can be seen in the following verses:
“He will oppose and will exalt himself over every thing that is called God or is worshipe, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God. (2 Thes.2:4)
and
“All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast–all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world.” (Rev.13:8)
The following shows this beast’s fate when the king of kings and the Lord of lords returns to the earth at the end of the age:
“Then I continued to watch because of the boastful words the horn was speaking. I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire. (Dan.7:11)
This beast here in Daniel that is speaking boastful words is the same beast who is speaking boastful words in Revelation as can be seen in the verse below:
“The beast was given a mouth to utter proud words and blasphemies and to exercise his authority for forty-two months. He opened his mouth to blaspheme God, and to slander his name and his dwelling place and those who live in heaven.” (Rev.13:5-6)
“The beast who once was, now is not and yet will come.”
According to the angel that is giving John the information in Revelation, this beast “once was,” meaning that, at some time prior to John receiving this infromation, this beast was out in the world. The phrase, “Now is not” means that at the time that John was receiving that information, the beast was not out in the world, but was locked in the Abyss. Then the angels says regarding this beast, “And yet will come” meaning that at some future time, that same beast will come back up out of the Abyss, which as we already saw, happens at the 5th trumpet when the Abyss is opened.
The inhabitants of the earth will be deceived into believing that this beast is God and that because the second beast, also called the “False Prophet” will be given power by demonic spirits to perform miracles, signs and wonders, which will be for the purpose of giving credibility to the first beast. (2 Thes.2:9-12 and Rev.13:13)
And finally, here is the fate of the both the beast who comes up out of the Abyss and the false prophet at the Lord’s return to the earth to establish his kingdom:
“Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to make war against the rider on the horse and his army. But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the bast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into fiery lake of burning sulfur.” (Rev.19:19-20)
I hope that the information above sheds a little more light regarding this issue.
Hey DMCAL
Hope all is well.
I think you took my comment the wrong way. I know that the dragon is the devil.’
Did you understand that we were speaking of the armour of Prince Charles coat of arms? When speaking of English arisocrat and the knights and the knighting by kings and queens I personally don’t know that it means he is the Anti-Christ.
Prince Charles did not design the coat of arms the British University did. Is not also
the dragon the emblem of the Welsh people? Is he guard over them as the Prince?
I will say this the Bible speaks of princes as the heads of nations.
Do you know that China also uses the Dragon as the national emblem. As of 2000 they as a nation are 5.7 percent Christian, the USA is listed as 85 percent Christian and England is listed as 88 percent Christian.
They have Shrines or some call them Pagodas they are erected to the “Dragon” (my understanding). At these locations they burn incense to the dragon. They also worship the Budda, all of this is idolatry right.
Do you also know that China has so many people that she could march them (I think this number is right, my Daddy told it to me years ago) 6 abreast and you could keep firing and if the world was still standing and they were still having children, you could not take them out as a nation in that vein.
Also lets consider the newest news about Israel. It have 250 billion barrrels of oil just a little under Saudi Arabia. We know the Bible speaks about this oil. Many had concluded that the oil spoken of must have been the annointing oil, but not so.
Now knowing what you know, these additional facts, (I am asuming you may not know these facts, if you do forgive me I am not taking shots)about China is it possible that we may rethink about the “Dragon”?
Get back to me on this one DMCAl, I want to know if you still think it is Prince Charles?
Hello again Pattie,
Hope your day is going well. Fist let me clarify that I do not believe that the dragon is prince Charles and I never have. The dragon of Revelation 12:3,7-9 is clearly identified as Satan himself. The reason that we know this is because in Rev.7 it states that Michael the archangel and his angels fight against the dragon and his angels and then in Rev.12:9 the word dragon is use interchangeably with Satan. Therefore, the dragon, as a whole, is Satan. Now, the dragon is said to have seven heads and ten crowns. The seven heads are represented by the following two things:
1). Seven Hills
“This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits.” (Rev.17:9)
I strongly believe that these seven hills are referring to the seven hills of Rome, which would be pointing us to the her false religious system, Roman Catholicism. We know that this is referring to Rome because regarding the woman Rev.17:18 says,
“The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”
At the time that John was receiving this information, Rome was the city that ruled over the kings of the earth. Rome with her pagan religious beliefs have their foundations in the pagan mystery religions of Babylon, which is why the woman is referred to as “Mystery ,Babylon the great, The Mother of Prostitutes and of the abominations of the earth.” The false religious system of Roman Catholicism masquerading as the church of Christ is the woman who is riding the beast. Regarding the woman, it also states that she sits on many waters, of which the angels tellls John that the waters that the woman is sitting on represents peoples, multitudes, nations and languages. Where the seven hills that the woman sits on are representing the woman’s headquarters, the many waters that she sits on represents the influence of her prostitution (Spiritual adultery against God) upon every shore of every continent, ergo, peoples, multitudes, nations and languages.
2). Seven kings:
“They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for a little while. The beast who once was, now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.”
So, the seven heads of the dragon, also represent a succession of seven kings. At the time that John was receiving this information the angel says, “Five have fallen,” meaning that, five of those kings had already ruled and had gone. Then the angel says,”One is,” meaning that king number six was ruling at the very moment that the angel was giving him this information, which was future to John, but in the past to us . The seventh, king had not yet come, but when he did come the angel states that he would rule for a little while. The beast who once was, now is not is an eighth king and is also that angel of the Abyss that I told you about in my last post. This eighth king was future to John and is still future to us, for he is that angel that will come up out of the Abyss at the blowing of the 5th trumpet who will kill the two witnesses of God and through his human counterpart proclaim himself to be God and that with the support of the false prophet. After all, the false prophet will be doing signs, miracles and wonders on behalf of the beast, which is exactly what people want to see as proof and because they have no faith.
Now, it also states that the dragon has ten horns, which are those ten future kings who will rule with the beast, but will give their power and authority to him as the angel revealed to John in the following verses:
“The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast. They have one purpose and will give their power and authority to the beast.” (Rev.17;12-13)
This tells me that the earth at the time of the beast’s rule, will be divided into ten regions, with those kings each ruling over a region and reporting directly to the beast. So to recap, the dragon is not prince Charles, nor is it China, but is Satan who is the one who is orchestrating this evil activity of the seven heads and the ten horns. We know that the beast is not yet here, because there would be a false prophet performing signs, miracles and wonders on his behalf for the purpose of deceiving the inhabitants of the earth as revealed in 2 Thes.2:9-12 and Rev.13:13.
These miracles of course will be satanic counterfeits, kind of like the same as when Pharaoh’s magicians performed their counterfeith miracles and signs. Anyways, I hope that this clears things up a bit. Personally, I believe that the Lord will come for the church before we even see the beast to remove us from the earth before he begins the Day of the Lord, that is, the wrath of God.
Yours in Christ
Wow DMCAL, Ashupertz and all
I now wonder did he kill Princess Diana, I don’t know why but I wondered it as soon as I heard it.
I now have my answer why God would have me pray for that nation also.
I am so sorry when I finished some other things from the day that were pressing. I went to look for more input about Prince. Charles and was immediately as Daniel
said, sick in my stomach and given a headache.
People should try to read this information.
I also think that China is a part of the nightmare according to Revelations and a dream
I had but I have not been warned about England by God in a dream.
Be blessed
Don
I agree with your saying except. The Catholic church is the whore but the nations are the economics and / or government that she is riding upon. How other wise does the beast come to be and to give the people 666in their hand or forehead or to gain control of the people globally? The way I see it at least 11 people will have to give themselves over to the Dragon/ Anti-Christ /beast.
I think the beast will be more like the neck and the 11 will be the figure heads and the one wanting worship could be the Pope. I think it is the enemies way of making himself more like God. How many names and positions are known of God? The enemy wants to truly be God. So I think you can look for what ever is know about God that the enemy will want some thing the opposite of Good to evil but with the same control mentality with falsehood. He can’t be one thing and control the world because their is but one Diety it is God.
He has not the power but he can try using world man-power as his puppet strings for what he knows about God in somethings. To me it is no different than when a devil possess people. These people will permit themselves to be possessed, t hey are are not sanctified so the Holy Ghost is not their to stop him. I also think that some sale their life to the enemy for a few hours of greatness to be the puppet.
But in my opinion God who has control has already placed the over coming change about us or our enemies weapons, he does it as the game goes. Just as he said we know the enemies tricks even though he changes God does not. To me it is no different than an ant biting you . Do you endure the pain or do you crush it. Some would play with it and perhaps the almighty has played with him. But then the almighty has the right to do whatever he wants.
I believe that China is one of the 10 nations of economic global control. I look at the G8 and I think it is the beginning of the economic beast. I believe that the dragon is satan as I said. I believe those who agree to worship at the feet of the false church will get the control of all things through the power of satan, who is the true beast. I believe some have been kicked out. I think it is possible that Japan didn’t cooperate and will be taken out for a period.
The world economic collapse is already planned in my opinion, the IMF has been told by Washington that everything is getting ready to crumble economically, The IMF is a part of the G8. I haven’t seen anyone really comment on other articles placed here about the issues and the global control they are taking.
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=185372.0
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/15/dominique-strauss-kahn-replacement_n_862244.html
http://seeker401.wordpress.com/2011/05/28/g8-promises-to-back-arab-spring-any-protest-will-be-legitimised-and-backed/
http://seeker401.wordpress.com/2010/06/02/g8g20-security-bill-to-approach-1-billion/
http://tagbulb.com/q/Bookmarks/Delicious/unitedstates?rT=true (look at the june 3-us)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/05/egypt-3bn-imf-deal-economy
http://exposedpost.blogspot.com/2011/04/cnbc-illuminati-and-new-world-order.html
The lost of wealth and destablization of the world will cause the additional shifts in power that will cause man kind to look to the church for help and understanding in
a time of starvation and wars that kick off from it. the black horse and the green horse.
God makes the plans and he assigns player to the parts. Just as he said in Jeremiah I have plans for you. I don’t mean God makes anyone evil, they have to be at the heart or they wouldn’t be the choice in my opinion. No different than Pontius Pilot. I feel we have to believe this to know he is control of all things.
I do believe that everyone who is on the G8 plans on continuing in some way. I feel
or sense president Obama for some reason thinks this of his self .
Many of the things they plan from their evil plots is foiled by God, praise his holy name.
But just as evil people take parts in Gods word being played out, so do and will good people as in the beginning, will it be till the end. Saints during the tribulation will help unsaved saints to turn to him in the last minute hour. The saints that have vessels that are low on prayer fuel will get it together and foolish will become wise. Because every part of the word gets fulfilled exactly as he said, this is why Gods’ children never have to fear.
During the 6 day war he sent the Angels with flaming swords all around the camp of the children of Israel and the enemy surrendered. Now they want to eat her up again, those whose hearts are filled with evil, this time God gave her oil. You can’t out give or out do God because everything is his and when he loves you their isn’t any with the strength to take you down.
But it doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t be talking about it continually and looking and analyzing his coming. That is why in 2 Timothy 2:15 the word says: Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a workman who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.
I hope the being removed is soon. I must say you opened my eyes about words in Revelation and other parts of the Bible relative to the Jacobs trouble I didn’t read the same way before.
So I think for the most part we are on the same page and interpret the word to say and mean the same thing, am I right?
Be Blessed in Jesus
And the Retsrainer is ???
hi Mick
It sounds like we are back to square one, doesn’t it?
If you look at my post, I include different candidates for restrainer. I was trying to focus on physical restrainers, rather than spiritual ones, but the vote seems to stay on the spiritual ones.
I agree that ultimately, the holy spirit is the spiritual restrainer. I would not agree that Michael the angel is, since the book of Daniel indicates he will be with Israel during Jacob’s trouble ( 3 1/2 years). So, even if / when the holy spirit removes himself from the world, allowing the wrath of God, Michael will still be there for natural Israel, who are still “elected” to be saved during this time.
Hi Marianne
“I was trying to focus on physical restrainers”
“I agree that ultimately, the holy spirit is the spiritual restrainer”
Exactly – The Genesis 8 quote above seems to imply that ‘God’ was in control of removing and reimposing the retrainer during Noahs flood (wrath of God) as a physical phenomena. The fight between Michael and Satan in Rev either IS the removal of the restrainer (Thess 2) or occurs after the removal of the retrainer and results in Satan being cast down. Either way it still appears that the retrainer is a physical phenomena with physical as well as spritual consequences. The restrainer is referred to (Thess 2) as both ‘WHAT holds him back’ and ’til HE is taken out of the way’ so some personification of the restrainer as a physical phenomena is taking place here. I would vote for the restrainer being the Earth’s magnetic field under God’s control. But that’s just me.
Incidently, Genesis 1 … On the seventh day God rested. Noah means ‘rested’. i.e on the seventh day God’s creation experienced Naoh ie the flood. So after six days of creation the Earth was destroyed. We are soon to experience the seventh day again (soon).
Marianne, Mick
I have not commented here before, but would like to add my thoughts to the topic at hand.
Whatif Jesus is the restrainer, and when he comes back at his second coming, Satan will have to be released in order for him to bring his wrath. My reasoning, Satan is the accuser, the Cross made accusation impossible, therefore accusation/ Satan bound when Christ died.
Dru
Because mat 24 says that the abomination of desolation occurs first and after that The Son of man returns. Assuming of course that you agree that the a of d is Satans return?
Mick
I agree with that assumption. If Jesus is restraining, and he must return to earth therefore he must throw satan down to earth, but his time will be short. AKA end of the age of grace. In other words, satan is being bound right now because of grace.
Hi Mick, Dru and all,
Just a little clarification here, according to Scripture, Jesus does not personally throw Satan down to the earth, as it is Michael and his angels who are the ones who hurl Satan and his angels down to earth (Rev.12:7-9). This battle takes place in the middle of that last seven year period and the reference to Satan’s time being short, is that he knows that from the time that he and his angels are hurled down and restricted to the earth, they then have 3 1/2 years until the return of the Lord, at which point he is thrown into the Abyss and locked in during the Lord’s millennial reign so that he cannot deceive anyone during that time period (Rev.12:12; 20:1-3,7-10).
Furthermore, Satan is currently not bound and in fact has access to heaven and is accusing the saints day and night before God , where he will continue to do so until he is cast down to earth (Rev.12:10-12). The event of Satan and his angels being hurled down to the earth is the major event of the 7th trumpet and is also the 3rd Woe (Rev.12:12). The reason that the 5th, 6th and 7th trumpets are referred to as “Woes” is because they are all three demonic in nature.
5th Trumpet /1st Woe – Demonic beings commanded to torment the inhabitants of the earth for five months with the stings like that of a scorpion and no one will be able to die during this time.
6th Trumpet/2nd Woe – The four evil angels that are currently held bound at the great river Euphrates are released and they gather a demonic army of 200 million from the Abyss that will have previously been opened at the 5th trumpet and who will kill a third of mankind.
7th Trumpet/3rd Woe – Satan and his angels hurled down to the earth and the response from those in heaven is “But WOE to the earth and the sea, because the devil has gone down to you! He is filled with fury, because he knows that his time is short.” From that time on, he has 3 1/2 years to do his worst to mankind.
Yours in Christ
Hi Dru,
Look around you. Watch the news. Does satan look bound and unable to to work to you?
And what about scripture? Years after Yeshua died Paul wrote, “1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, [according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience], 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.”
Ephesians 2:1-3.
So apparently satan isn’t bound up at all.
He will only be bound when scripture states that he will be bound, and that will be at the time of Yeshua’s second coming.
Be Blessed
Sorry alienated, Don
I just jumped into the topic at hand w/o reading up on what was said. I was thinking of Paul’s quote of the man of lawlessness being bound. (in thessolonians) I do not have the time for a more “thought out” response. I will post later when I have time.
Good grief!!
Sorry Mick if i caused you grief.
At least it was “Good” grief. lol 🙂
Alright already. I really do not feel motivated to comment on this topic, but will anyway. My mind has been “en-raptured” with other topics. When Jesus Died on the cross, And Christians received the HS at pentecost, No more accusations could be made in heaven against us. Satan was thrown down to earth Long ago. The war in heaven lasted some six hundred years. At which time Michael and the angels threw him to earth and he corrupted what he could to fight against Israel and Christians. He set up his earthly kingdom, started his false religion, and created the abomination that causes desolation in his false temple the Dome of the Rock. Although unable to make spiritual attacks on God’s people, he can make Physical and worldly attacks.
This is not to say that Don is wrong, when he says that Satan will be released in the final seven year cycle of the tribulation. At that time he will be released to make spiritual attack on Christians and Jews for a short time, Till Jesus comes and destroys him, and his false prophet. Jesus, right now is preventing him from making those attacks right now. For a short time he will again be permitted to attack the saints, as Job was attacked by taking everything away from them. We who remain will be a testimony to God’s work in us, and suffer at the in this tribulation.
So there you Go, that is my view of Revalation 12 , and thesolonians. I look forward to your comments. Right now I am getting tired of seeing my comment box blink upand down. Do any of you get that?
Hi Dru and everyone,
Just a couple of questions dru: First of all, where in Scripture are you able to establish that the war between Michael and Satan has already taken place? And where in Scripture can you substantiate that it lasted for 600 years? Scripture states that the dragon/Satan pursues the woman/Israel and that she is cared for out in the desert for a time, times and a half a time, that is,
3 1/2 years, which would be from the middle of that last seven years til the end when the Lord returns. Ibid that according to Scripture, the war between Michael and Satan has not yet taken place and therefore, Satan is not yet restricted to the earth. when he does get cast out, then it will be utter chaos on the earth, because at that time he will be able to concentrate his full malice upon the human race, in other words regarding evil, the world hasn’t seen anthing yet!
Furthermore, your suggestion of the Dome of the Rock as being the temple spoken of in Daniel 9:27 and Mt.24:15 is impossible! The reason being is that, Jesus made it very clear as to what temple was being spoken of by Daniel’s prophecy when he said,
“So when you see standing in the [holy place] ‘the abomination that causes desolation.”
The holy place was the room just outside of the Holy of Holies, which is what Jesus is referring to and therefore, a future temple in Jerusalem is what is in view. It is the setting up of this image of the beast (abomination)in the holy place within the temple in Jerusalem that is in view and not the Dome of the Rock. The setting up of this image is what causes the desolation of Jersalem. When those in Jerusalem see that abomination standing in the holy place, then they will know that he is not their Messiah, which is what causes the desolation.
Also, what Scripture do you have to support your view that Satan is bound? When Jesus returns to set up his millennial kingdom, the beast and the false prophet are both thrown alive into the lake of fire (Rev.19:19-20). Then that mighty angel (Ibid Michael) throws Satan into the Abyss and locks and seals it over him and what follows is important to pay attention to which says, “To keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended.” By saying this, it would infer that deceiving the nations is what Satan has been doing and will continue to do until he is cast into the Abyss. Satan is not to be confused with the angel of the Abyss whose name is “destroyer,” who is currently locked up in the Abyss, but will be let out at the 5th trumpet, for that is when the Abyss is opened and which remains open until the Lord returns and Satan is then thrown into it and at which point it is locked back up.
The time period is clearly seven years in length and the abomination being set up marks the middle of it.
Yours in Christ
As a quick reply Don There are multiple fulfillments of the prophecy. Just as the Jews thought that Jesus was coming only once as messiah and king. We now can look at prophecy and see how the messiah would come twice. once to die, and bring salvation, once to rule his millenial Kingdom. I will comment further later…
Hi Dru,
I agree with what it is that Don say’s above.
But I would like to ask you a question to try to understand where you are coming from.
“Are you suggesting that the Dome of the Rock itself could be the abomination of desolation”?
If your answer is “no” then please disregard the following.
However, if your answer is “yes”, then consider the following scripture to see whether that premise fits.
“29 At the appointed time he shall return and go toward the south; but it shall not be like the former or the latter.
30 For ships from Cyprus shall come against him; therefore he shall be grieved, and return in rage against the holy covenant, and do damage. So he shall return and show regard for those who forsake the holy covenant.
31 And forces shall be mustered by him, and they shall defile the sanctuary fortress; then they shall take away the daily sacrifices, and place there the abomination of desolation.
(So above we see that this individual will command his forces to seize the Temple, put a stop to the daily sacrifices that had been reestablished (which would not happen within the Dome of the Rock, but would only happen in a newly erected Temple) and these forces will “then” set up there, the abomination of desolation.)
32 Those who do wickedly against the covenant he shall corrupt with flattery; but the people who know their God shall be strong, and carry out great exploits.
33 And those of the people who understand shall instruct many; yet for many days they shall fall by sword and flame, by captivity and plundering.
(Now you are also aware of my position regarding a pre-trib rapture. It is my belief that these “who understand and will instruct many” are many of those that were left behind. These are those that are now referred to as “Saints” in the book of Revelation, since the Church, (Ekklesia) itself is gone.)
34 Now when they fall, they shall be aided with a little help; but many shall join with them by intrigue.
(These Saints will be aided with a little help, ( Mark 13:11. John 14:26) and those that “join”, are those that choose to believe the Saints testimony and now are believers in Yeshua.)
35 And some of those of understanding shall fall, to refine them, purify them, and make them white, until the time of the end; because it is still for the appointed time.
(Referring to Revelation 6:11., 7:14.)
36 “Then the king shall do according to his own will: he shall exalt and magnify himself above every god, shall speak blasphemies against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the wrath has been accomplished; for what has been determined shall be done.
(Revelation 13:5,6.)
37 He shall regard neither the God of his fathers nor the desire of women, nor regard any god; for he shall exalt himself above them all. 38 But in their place he shall honor a god of fortresses; and a god which his fathers did not know he shall honor with gold and silver, with precious stones and pleasant things. 39 Thus he shall act against the strongest fortresses with a foreign god, which he shall acknowledge, and advance its glory; and he shall cause them to rule over many, and divide the land for gain.
Daniel 11:29-39.
Regarding satan specifically, all of Revelation 12 is referring to this event, and it does not happen if understood in context, until after the tribulation is well under way. So I ask you as well, basically the same questions that Don has posed.
Be Blessed
Alienated
sorry I did not answer your question on Daniel 11. If you want to understand the verses you quoted, may I suggest you read I maccabes 1:44-54. They are refering to antiochus, who is a foreshadowing of the Ac. Verse 35 transitions to end times. The “appointed time” refers to revalations made at Jesus first coming, pertaining to the saints that were killed by Antiochus. Then verse 36 and following refer to the future Antichrist. In other words you are looking at a dual fulfillment of prophecy.
Dru
That was so short and concise and right to the heart of taking the head off the dragon.
You know that is one of the things he is doing to people right now is to make them feel attacked. But remember to those who love the Lord all works to the Good. In the time
I have known you I can say you can wield that two edged sword and slice and dice it all directions.
Remember the one you have to show yourself approved to is the Lord only and your Brothers and Sisters love you and often we don’t realize how negative our words are in writing.
I get the Physical attacks of the enemy as I have experienced them a lot in the past 3 years. Now they are less but I know I wouldn’t be there but God wants the enemy to know he can’t take me down. During these times and things come at us confronting and attacking nature of man, not spirit man.
God puts spiritual muscle on us and our depth and understanding of him is much greater when he is finished. Jeremiah says he has a plan for us, if we only knew. We know God who can bring the world to bare down upon us is building blocks next to his cornerstone. How does a family or a team build?
These children at the time or the beginning still have much world remaining or drost but the refined and finished gold is methodical, plays music that makes the heart sing, can bring tears to the eyes needing water and hope to the down trodden, Is able to spread the good news of who God is without thought, as he has entered in.
Our porch lights are on and we are home to the Holy spirit all the time now. Various attacks come but the responses are chosen and the entrance to the attacks response is much slower than the beginning of his training. Great warriors start out a little angry, are slow in all things but patients, baring and burdening the desire to gain a special place with God that isn’t given but is gained with deligents in seeking him.
I just again want to say God puts us in the furnace of difficult positions, almost like tight clothes you want to shed, running into an ex-girlfriend at a bad time, stripping
everything we worked our whole life for but when he is done. We are branches baring fruit, Make the tree good or cut it down the word says. I think that means you are a keeper.
Be blessed Dru
Don, Alienated
As I said, I wholly believe in your interpretation of end time events, especially the A of D as spoken of by the Lord in Matthew, and Daniel.
Now where do I get the dome of the rock as significant and pertaining to Satan being thrown to earth.
” 11. CONCERNING JUDGEMENT, BECAUSE THE RULER OF THIS WORLD IS JUDGED.” John 16:11 This is the work of the Holy spirit, and satans Judgement and occured at pentecost.. John continues this thought in his epistle by saying ” who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is THE Antichrist, he who denies the Father and Son.” I John2:22 {As a side note to our rapture discussions, every time John says what you heard from the beginning V24, is a reference to his Gospel which starts with “in the beginning” Not the Law of Moses} What is it that muslims deny? That Jesus is the Son of God. Islam is therefore the religion of the antichrist by definition.
Paul confirms that satan was defeated at the cross and with the HS coming to us. Col 2:14-15 “By cancelling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. 15. HE DISARMED the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by TRIUMPHING over them in him.” Hebrews 2:14-15 also confirms that Satan was defeated at the cross and no longer partook in “judgement”. Now if we jump to Revalation twelve. V-8 “But he was defeated and there was no longer any place for him in heaven.” This can only mean that the defeat occured at the cross as I showed above, therefore, what is said in this chapter of revalation is a larger picture of prophecy which pertains to Satan. In verse ten and eleven, when John is talking of the testimonies, He is referring to his fellow apostles “…accuser of our brothers”. Therefor, the death of the apostles was used in the judgement and extradition of Satan from heaven, because their testimonies were worthy.
Now the question is why do I say that satan was thrown to earth six hundred years later? Daniel 12: 11 “And from the time that the regular burnt offering is taken away and the abomination that makes desolate is SET UP, there shall be 1290 days” II Kings 24:13 is when “Nebby” Loots the temple of solomon, Approx 598 bc. From 598bc- 691/2 ad = 1290 years give or take a year. That was the year the Dome of the Rock was SET UP on the Holy mount. Now rev12: 14 Talks of time, and times and half a time (1260 Days). 688 ad is when construction of the dome of the rock began +1260= 1948 A significant year as you know. (As an aside, v15-16, I believe refer to the holocaust and hitler and ww2)
Now I know you have heard parts of this interpretation before. To say that satan was thrown to earth 600 years after the cross is a stretch biblically, but the coincidence of these events makes me wonder. Daniel twelve says the A of D is “set up” while Matt 24 says The A of D is “standing”. This would be an interesting Word comparison to look up. Can set up be referring to a building only, while standing refers to a person??? A dual fulfillment of prophecy? I think Daniel 9: 27 might answer that question “And on the wing Of abominations Shall come ONE who makes desolate Until the decreed end is poured out on the DESOLATOR.” Seems to me like we have a Wing of Abomonation (a building) and a Desolator (a person. YES? NO? Why sixhundred years, and not one year? The Lord knows?
Please, be like the bereans, If I am wrong correct me, especially the last point. For we are at the time that satan will come after Christians, leading them to holocaust as he did the Jews.
Hi Dru,
Thanks for your response.
Okay, here are a couple of things.
Regarding John 16:11, the context of this verse is Yeshua telling His disciples why He had to leave, and is expressing “future tense”.
Yeshua has to leave so that the Helper, (Holy Spirit) would come.
Yeshua had to leave so that the Holy Spirit would then be able to convict the world of sin, righteousness, and of judgment.
Of sin, because they did not believe in Him.
Of righteousness, because He would ascend to the Father.
Of Judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.
This can’t be applied as to happening right then and there simply because Yeshua said so, that would be for a couple of reasons.
(1) Because He was still alive and no New Covenant can take effect while the testator still lives. Hebrews 9:16.
(2) Also since He was still alive when He said this, nothing had happened in regards to His future sacrifice to defeat satan yet.
(3) And if satan had been judged then and there, he would also have been defeated, (since they must go hand and hand) and clearly that isn’t the case.
All references to satan being judged and his ultimate defeat, are regarding a future tense scenario.
What Paul was describing in Colossians 2:15, was about satans defeat regarding control over believers through Yeshua, not his literal defeat and being cast out of heaven, or being bound up.
Hebrews 2:14,15 that you utilize is referring in context to Yeshua’s triumph over “death” itself, not over satan in being bound and being defeated. This is why Yeshua was made a little lower that the angels, so that He could actually die.
You say, “Now if we jump to Revelation twelve. V-8 “But he was defeated and there was no longer any place for him in heaven.” This can only mean that the defeat occurred at the cross as I showed above, therefore, what is said in this chapter of revelation is a larger picture of prophecy which pertains to Satan.”
Allow me to maybe use an analogy here regarding all of the above.
Before a prize fight we have two boxers.
Each one is spouting off as to how they are gonna knock each other into next week.
But the actual fight isn’t scheduled for a month or so down the road.
This is the same thing.
When you look at the atrocities in the world today, and then also taking into account the content of the whole book of Revelation into consideration, (which is clearly yet to happen), it seems ludicrous for me to accept that you actually believe that satan has been defeated already?
You say, “(As an aside, v15-16, I believe refer to the holocaust and Hitler and ww2)
If that was indeed the case, then why would Hitler have persecuted the Jew’s?
For the dragon pursues those who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ? They were all Jews not Christians.
You also say above, “What is it that Muslims deny? That Jesus is the Son of God. Islam is therefore the religion of the antichrist by definition.”
Well this would also include by definition, Buddhists, Mormon’s, JW’s, Hindu’s, Sikhs, etc. etc. etc.
As well, regarding I John 2:22 you say, “{As a side note to our rapture discussions, every time John says what you heard from the beginning V24, is a reference to his Gospel which starts with “in the beginning” Not the Law of Moses}”
I respond with the following;
“I rejoiced greatly that I have found some of your children walking in truth, as we received commandment from the Father. And now I plead with you, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment to you, but that which we have had from the beginning: that we love one another. This is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it.” 2 John 1:4-6.
I am not saying that you are not welcome to have you own opinions Dru. I believe that this is more or less what this site is here for in the first place. However, our opinions must maintain biblical foundation and correlate with scripture, or we are simply creating our own theology.
Be Blessed
Alienated
Do you know why the Jews could not accept Jesus as their Messiah? because he did not fulfill all the prophecies pertaining to the messiah at his first coming. In other words they did not see the dual fulfillment in the prophecies. I am trying to point out to you and Don that there are dual fulfillments of endtimes events, and if you do not separate out what has already occurred and what will occur you will not understand what is happening when the relavent events occur. In other words you will be caught unaware and un prepared. As I said in my previous response to daniel 11, to ascribe the verses before verse 35 to the Ac is a mistake, for they refer to Antiochus. Just like the 2300 days in Daniel 8:14 is referring to a specific event which occured under Antiochus. Revalation 12 is a preamble to what will happen to the dragon when he give his authority to the beast. Verse 17 refers to christians, and the woman is Israel. verses 15,16 refer to the transition that the dragon makes from pursuing the Women to pursueing Christians.
As for the question of satan being defeated at the cross, If as I commented on the rapture page, our salvation is solely the work of God. How can satan accuse us for everything from God is righteous!!! Have a little faith!
As for creating my own theology, Everything I say is solely based on what I read from God’s word and how the holy Spirit leads me to understand it. Up until this past year, I have never had the confidence to express these revalations if you will. I am not asking you to join my religion, for apart from grace I have none. I am not asking for you to believe all I say, but to have you consider the possibilities. I am not right all the time, and will admit it when convinced of this. But for too long, I have been silent, and have muffled what the HS has taught me through the years, as he is continually teaching me, as is evidenced by the aforementioned distinction between the building and the desolator. I have never had that distinction in my understanding until then. I asked a question and the HS answered, not my understanding. I learned a long time ago not to rely on my own understanding. It is only now that I am learning to rely on the HS in me. I ask that you judge this spirit in me if it is of God. Using the criteria set forth in 1 John 4. I believe by our interactions that you have done this. Can my understanding drift in to what i write, by all means, I have not nor will be perfected till Christ comes again. That is what discernment is all about.
I say this with respect and Godly love towards you, And in hopes that someday God will be glorified.
Hi Dru,
Other than God closing their eye’s and understanding, one of the other reasons that the Jews didn’t accept Yeshua as their Messiah was because, (they being oppressed at the time), were looking for Messiah Ben David, the ruling King. Someone that would deliver them from the Roman rule.
However, when Messiah Ben Joseph showed up,(the suffering servant) they didn’t recognize Him.
(As well there was nothing in scripture up to that point, that suggested that this “chosen one, or anointed one” would actually be the manifested Son of God either. It was a concept that no one had considered. Have you ever noticed that He didn’t refer to Himself as the Son of God either?)
Now, I am certainly not going to debate the fact that many prophecies have duality of fulfillment with you.
For I agree that the aspect of foreshadowing in the Old Testament itself, has proved this to be fact within the New, and will also be fulfilled within the future.
Yet by what you say above Dru, do you realize that you actually contradict your own premise?
Where you say, “As I said in my previous response to Daniel 11, to ascribe the verses before verse 35 to the Ac is a mistake, for they refer to Antiochus.” would that not be limiting those verses to one of singularity, rather than duality?
Antiochus, and what happened during that time period, is a foreshadowing of an event in the future that has yet to fruition, and can therefore, be representative to the AC as well.
I’m sorry bud, but there is nothing that you could say that would make me believe that satan still isn’t in power here on this world, and that he doesn’t still have access to heaven to accuse whoever he wants to until he finally gets chucked down to earth for good. (Or bad depending upon your perspective.)
If I am right regarding my theory in respects to the rapture, though my heart goes out to those who may be left, if I am counted worthy enough to escape, I will be very thankful for that.
Be Blessed Dru
In response to your second paragraph, You obviosly have not read Johns gospel. “I and the Father are one” No it is not Son of God, but it is pretty darn close.
Regarding my apparent contradiction on dual fulfillments, It is antiochus that is a foreshadow of AC, not what he did in history. In other words, if you have a dual fulfillment The two fulfillments are not exactly the same. That account has the saints die in the end, not raptured pre trib.
as you believe. So it takes spiritual discernment to figure out what is foreshadowing and what is not. Just as was the case with the Jewish people. One event, Jesus as savior had occurred, while the other, Jesus as king had not. They lacked the discernment to see this. I said Jesus defeated satan on the cross. What was an apparent victory for Satan resulted in his demise. Read Romans 8 “There is therefore now no condemnation….” Satan is no longer in heaven accusing the saints, for there is no condemnation. I do not know how much more clear you can be. Jesus was saying this in the upper room discourse predicting his death, not saying it had occurred already. By denying this, you are denying that Jesus blood and sacrifice for sin were not enough! When the first Martyr Stephen was put to death, He echoed Christ’s words on the cross “Lord Jesus receive my spirit…Do not hold this sin against them.” He stood up for the “Name” in the trial and did not try to avoid punishment, and loved those around him as Christ had loved us. God answered his request by redeeming Saul, The worst of the worst. In other words he obeyed Christ commandments. This was the testimony that revalation 12:10 speaks of, and the testimony which we will be called to bear if we are disciples of Christ (Revalation 12:17). This is the cost of discipleship.
Will you be able to make this sacrifice as stephen did, which led to the redemption of Saul/Paul. Not just a good Christian brother, but the worst of the worst as far as an enemy of Christians.
Everybody wants to claim they are the church of philadelphia, or return the church to how it was in the apostolic era. Well, there it is in a nutshell, and it ain’t so Member friendly. Acts 5:41 “Then they left the prescence of the council, REJOICING that they were counted WORTHY TO SUFFER DISHONOR FOR THE NAME.” That sounds alot different than “if I am counted worthy to escape”.
What stephen went through and did was, is and will be the testimony that saves those who witness it. Yet you mock me for saying that I hope I am worthy to suffer for his name.
May I suggest you pray for some spiritual discernment regarding these matters. Take the next step, and “Know him who is from the beginning”. I will continue praying for you as well.
BTW, I am only saying that satan does not have access to heaven to accuse. He is most definately in power here on the earth, as he has already been thrown down here. He is spiritually bound, but not worldly bound, if that is a term?
Dru,
If I happen to disagree with you regarding one of your premise’s it is simply a disagreement in our theology, it is not something you should feel the necessity to become defensive about. Which appears to be the case with your statement, “You obviously have not read Johns gospel.”
Above when I said that He didn’t refer to Himself as the Son of God, I was referring to Him calling Himself the Son of man. You appear to me to be a little heated in the need to prove yourself right here.
The whole topic itself has no bearing in regards to our Salvation, therefore I believe that God had in mind for there to be confusion and some mystery involved.
Hence Revelation 10:4.
So we agree to disagree in some aspects of what we believe, based upon how you and I interpret some verses of scripture differently. I can’t prove my position, and you can’t prove yours either?
You also sound a little self righteous and accusatory to me Dru, with your comment,”Will you be able to make this sacrifice as Stephen did, which led to the redemption of Saul/Paul. Not just a good Christian brother, but the worst of the worst as far as an enemy of Christians.
Everybody wants to claim they are the church of philadelphia, or return the church to how it was in the apostolic era. Well, there it is in a nutshell, and it ain’t so Member friendly. Acts 5:41 “Then they left the prescence of the council, REJOICING that they were counted WORTHY TO SUFFER DISHONOR FOR THE NAME.” That sounds alot different than “if I am counted worthy to escape”.
You accuse me of mocking you, which from re-reading what I have written above,
I believe that I had just been pointing out my point of view as you had requested.
Yet in turn you now mock me, by doing as the Lord requested? ” Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.” Luke 21:36.
I am sorry that you seem to be offended by my not wanting to suffer if it is not required for me to do so.
However, I think because of the current attitude that you are demonstrating, I will choose to not respond further to you any more.
Peace, and Be Blessed
Alienated
I too am sorry if I offended you. The remark that Got me angry, if you will, is when you accused me of starting a new religion or something like that. All I am trying to say is that we all have different life experiences and understandings, AKA world view, from which we interpret scripture. In other words, someone who has worked on a farm has a perpective different from my own regarding the feasts, and threshing, etc, than I do. Do I ignore that and see it as a “new theology”, or can I learn and expand my understanding of scripture from them.
I am reacting to your accusations in pointing to Stephen and the attitude of apostles towards persecution. Is this self-righteous? Is pointing out the difference in the apostles and your attitude toward suffering my self righteousness? On the contrary, as I have said before, I do not know if I will be able to have their perspective when the time comes, quite frankly it scares me because I do not know if I am capable of this kind of love. My goal in making that comparison is a response to your boastful statement of being regarded “worthy to escape.” My goal was to correct a brother in Christ and not point to my “worthiness”. As Paul had to correct Peter.
As for your criticisms. you attacked my supporting scripture regarding satan being defeated on the cross., But you avoided responding to the conclusion I made regarding the abomination.
Why was that? Because you could take advantage of my weekness in regards to theology. I am no scholar of the bible, and have never claimed to be. I do not know hebrew or greek, and cannot defend myself as you do. You and Don asked from where in the bible did I get my understanding from? I showed you the verses that had relavence to me. You say I ignored the context of these verses, I say you ignore the context of the entirety of scripture and how this is part of God’s redemptive plan. What appeared as victory for satan at the time, The killing of the messiah, led to his demise. I say this, knowing this from the Spirit and not from “proof”. I do not need proof to believe what God reveals Via the Spirit of Truth.
As you said, this is not a salvation argument. To me it is an argument about world view and putting one world view above another.
I have tried to take what you say, and understand your view without condemning you for it. The spirit has revealed to you things that have not been revealed to me. Instead of seeing a view that is contradictory to your as an attack, we should strive to fellowship with one another. This would be the Edifying thing to do.
I Go in peace as you do. May God show you epignosis, Knowledge upon knowledge, or the fullness of his plan.
Dru,
Please see my response posted below Don’s.
Thanks.
Be Blessed
Alienated, Don
Nowhere in the Old testament does it say that the messiah would have a first and second coming. It is there though. As is the case with the trinity, rapture etc. What many Christians are missing in there understanding of scripture is the “big picture”. They ask the who what where and when, but not the why. Why did God create Man? Why did he give us the choice to obey or disobey? Why did he choose to redeem us? why did Jesus have to be fully divine and fully human for salvation to be possible..
One thing you have to remember is that the apostles lived in the time of aristotle and plato, the golden age of greek culture. Paul in particular was well versed in these philosophers, Even quoting Greek literature. By me placing something like the dome of the rock into prophecy, or any of my life experience is not unheard of. If I am guilty then so is Paul, and the bible has an error in it.
Ask yourself this, is the word of God an old codebook, or the living Word of God. Are we to be condemned, for sharing our testimony of God’s redemption and how the HS has worked in our lives. Are we to be condemned when we share something that the spirit of truth has revealed to us, Or should we receive it with eagerness as did the bereans. None of what I said in my initial response was guided by my own understanding, except the side bar on 1 John 2;24. It was a thought that popped into my head as I was reading the context of verse 22, as were my thoughts on verse 15, and 16 of revalation 12. Are they wrong? could be, but that is for you to discern.
BTW, I did warn you that my interpretation of revalation twelve is different from yours in a previous post. But even my interpretation changed as the spirit led me. Also, revalation 12, as a preamble to the beast answers the question WHY would the dragon hand his authority over to the beast. That is why John jumps back in history from revalation 11.
Also, I am not adding anything to the bible when I say these things, except perhaps spiritual insight. My goal has been twofold here. learn this insight myself, and perhaps contribute to others insight on the Gospel. Or to have a light shined upon me as well as letting the light that is in me shine on those around me.
I John 4: 4-6
“Little children (I am not calling you this), You are from God and have overcome them (false prophets), for he who is IN YOU is greater than he who is IN the World. 5. They are from the world; therefore they speak from the world and the world listens to them. 6.WE ARE FROM GOD. whoever knows God, listens to us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.”
I will leave with this question for you to ponder. WHY would God release Satan from the pit at the end of the millenium??? And do not just answer with “to be judged and thrown into the lake of fire.”
hi dru
Actually, it does say messiah will come twice.
cheers
Yes but not directly. Logic and deduction have to be used and the order of events is not given.
Hi Dru,Alienate and all,
Allow me to attempt to answer the question that you posed bellow:
“I will leave with this question for you to ponder. WHY would God release Satan from the pit at the end of the millenium???”
The answer can be found in what Satan does as soon as he is released from the Abyss and that is that he deceives the nations from the four corners of the earth and is ablle to gather them together. The millennial kingdom will be the first time in history that mankind, still in their mortal bodies, including the sinful nature, that they will not have the influence of Satan and the principalities and powers of darkness to tempt and deceive them. I have always thought of this scenario as a kind of a “Shifting of the sand” so-to-speak. What I mean is this: Mankind will have had a 1000 years without the influence of the powers of darkness and complete peace with the Lord ruling, but God, in order to show man’s depravity, releases Satan at the end of the millennium and what do they do? Satan is able to gather them together and their numbers are like the sand on the seashore and they march across the breadth of the earth and surround Jerusalem in rebellion against God. This event is in essence fulfilling God’s purposes to show what is truly in man and that is that he is continuely bent on doing evil and all it takes is a little push.
I hope that this sheds some light on this subject. Please let me know what you think about this and not only you, but the rest who are reading as well.
Bye the way, in order to claim that one is speaking by the Holy Spirit, what is being said must correlate to what the word of God says, for, as I am sure you know, the Holy Spirit will not speak in opposition to the word of God.
Yours in Christ
Hey Don,
How do you answer that one other than with, “mankind is just pretty much stupid huh?” lol.
Be Blessed brother.
hi dru and alienated
Antichocus did not fulfill all of Daniel’s prophecy either, indicating a future time when someone would do this. Gabriel revealed that much was for the “time of the end.” (Dan 8:16) . There was no 2300 days for Antiochus. It repeats again in verse 23 referring to the “latter time of the kingdom.” Neither did he form a covenant with many for one week. Dan 9:26. Neither was he attacked by the east and north Dan 11:44
It is like Antiochus fulfilled up to a point, then left the rest “to be continued.”
Interesting that currently Obama is coming against the kings of the north and south now, Dan 11: 40 and news from the east (China) and north (Russia) are now a problem for him with their alliances with Iran and Pakistan. He has already exalted himself above God. I am saying for sure that he is the antichrist, but he is certainly competing for the position. He may also be fulfilling up to a point, then leaving the rest “to be continued.”
Sorry Marianne I am running out of time. Look at the notes in Macarthur study bible for Daniel 8 regarding 2300 days. It will give you the exact dates for this.
Marianne, I hope that that what you said in your last paragraph was a typo? ” I am saying for sure” or did you mean “I am NOT saying for sure”.
As for BO being AC, I do not see it…..yet. I still think the AC will come out of south central Europe, If you know what I mean. A secular Muslim, or a person w/o the religion of his fathers.
oops….that was a boo boo.!
Hi Marianne,
Sorry that I didn’t reply to you earlier.
Yes, I agree with your first paragraph above. There is much that is still to be fulfilled down the road.
Hello Dru, Alienate and all,
Hi Dru, in response to what have you have written as proof, I must say that, this all assumed on your part and there is no direct link proving any of this, that is, you are just applying random Scriptures as your answers. For example regarding the following:
“CONCERNING JUDGEMENT, BECAUSE THE RULER OF THIS WORLD IS JUDGED”
This is just stating that Satan has his judgment, that being the lake of fire, but it does not mean that he was judged at that very moment and was thrown out of heaven. In fact, there is nothing in the verse that would suggest this and is only implied.
You said:
“who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ?”
Response:
If you notice, the verse would infer that not only is the antichrist a liar, but also anyone who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Not only this, but remember, the beast is that angel that comes up out of the Abyss whose name is Destroyer and is a completely different fallen angel from Satan. In fact, Satan gives the beast his power, seat and authority to the beast, which also shows that they are two separate demonic beings.
You said:
“is a reference to his Gospel which starts with “in the beginning” Not the Law of Moses} What is it that muslims deny? That Jesus is the Son of God. Islam is therefore the religion of the antichrist by definition.”
Response:
This is also assumed on your part, as there is nothing in the verse that would link this to being Islam, that is, it is just implied.
You said:
“By cancelling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross. 15. HE DISARMED the rulers and authorities and put them to open shame, by TRIUMPHING over them in him.” Hebrews 2:14-15 also confirms that Satan was defeated at the cross and no longer partook in “judgement”.”
Response:
He disarmed the rulers and authorities by paying the penalty for sins and therefore, removing the sting of sin which is death, remember, the law kills. Basically, by living a perfect sinless life on our behalf and fulfilling the righteous requirements of the law perfectly, Jesus took away the powers of darkness’ ammo. Satan being defeated at the cross does not mean that there is no evil in the world or that Satan and his angels are no longer active in tempting the inhabitants of the earth and is keeping them from Christ as can be seen in the following parable:
“A farmer went out to sow his seed. As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up.”
“When anyone hears the messsage about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the seed sown along that path.”
Simpley put, the principalities and powers were disarmed because Jesus abolished the law which stood against us, but Satan and his angels are very much active in the world and are going to become even more active during that last seven years, especially after they are cast out of heaven and restricted to the earth.
You said:
“But he was defeated and there was no longer any place for him in heaven.” This can only mean that the defeat occured at the cross ”
Chapter 12 of revelation shows that the war takes place in heaven and Satan and his angels are finally thrown out and since the Male Child was caught up to God’s throne, he goes after the Woman/Israel, but God provides a place for her out in the desert and cares for her mentiioned first as 1,260 days in Rev.12:6 and then mentioned again in Rev.12:14 as a time, times and half a time, which is two ways of saying 3 1/2 years. Therefore, since Satan and his angels immediately go after Israel as soon as they are cast down and she is cared for for 3 1/2 years, then the middle of that last seven years is when the they are cast down and that 3 1/2 years is also what is meant when it says that Satan’s time is short, that is, he only has
3 1/2 years before he is put into the Abyss.
You said:
“In verse ten and eleven, when John is talking of the testimonies, He is referring to his fellow apostles “…
Again, to say that John was speaking of his fellow apostles is purely assumption on your part, as there is nothing in the verse that would suggest this, that is, it is just applied. Furthermore, I hope that you are not talking about the original apostles, because most of them, if not all of them, were dead when Revelation was written. I would suggest that the “brothers” that John was referring to are the saints in general and not just restricted to the apostles.
You said:
“Now the question is why do I say that satan was thrown to earth six hundred years later? Daniel 12: 11 “And from the time that the regular burnt offering is taken away and the abomination that makes desolate is SET UP, there shall be 1290 days” II Kings 24:13 is when “Nebby” Loots the temple of solomon, Approx 598 bc. From 598bc- 691/2 ad = 1290 years give or take a year.”
Response:
“This is also assumed on your part and applied. The meaning of the 1290 days is this: The Woman/Israel is cared for out in the desert out of Satan’s reach for 1260 days, which is when the Lord returns. The extra 30 days are most likely the time during which the Lord will be performing judgments upon the nations as well as other events, with the entire processs completing at the end of 1335 days, which is 75 days after the Lord’s initial return. In short, this 1290 days are the same as the 1260 days plus 30 days for judgments and whatever else takes place. The other reason that this cannot be refierring to Nebby looting the temple is because of what the angel tells Daniel and that being that this has to do with the time of the end. The looting by Nebby in II Kings would have would have happened approximately 300 years before the events that took place with Daniel, where the angel is speaking to Daniel in the future tense.
You said:
“Can set up be referring to a building only, while standing refers to a person??? ”
Response:
Once again, this is assumption on your part. In order to understand what Daniel and Jesus are speaking of, we must read Revelation. The abomination of desolation in Rev.13:14-15 is mentioned by description only and the name “abomination” is not used. This abomination is that image that the false prophet commands the inhabitants of the earth make in honor of the first beast. It is an image that is said to be made in his likeness. This is that image that is set up in the holy place. And yes, the word “Standing” can be used to describe an inanimate object occupying a specific place, as in “The broom was standing in the corner,”
This image that will be made in the likeness of this beast who receives the fatal head wound, will be placed inside the Holy Place within the temple, which will be the cause of the desolation of Jerusalem, which is synonymous with the Woman/Israel fleeing into the desert where she is cared for 1260 days or 3 1/2 years. This abomination (likeness of the beast) would be considered as idol worship to the Jews reminicent of the law, “You shall make no graven image in representation of your the Lord your God.”
You said:
” And on the wing Of abominations Shall come ONE who makes desolate Until the decreed end is poured out on the DESOLATOR.” Seems to me like we have a Wing of Abomonation (a building) and a Desolator (a person. YES? NO?”
Response:
Jesus clarified what Daniel meant by the abomination sitting on “A wing of the temple” which is where this abomination is going to be standing as can be seen in the following verse:
“So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet –”
Therefore in the verse above, Jesus clarifies the “Wing of the temple” as “The holy place,” which as I posted previously, is the room just outside of the Holy of Holies.
I hope that you will receive this in the spirit in which it is given and that being for the sake of the truth backed up by Scripture. I hope that you will take the above into consideration.
Yours in Christ
Don I will have more time later to reply later.
A quick question for you though: Are you saying that you do not enter your study of scripture without a set of assumptions and world view which influences your understanding?
Hi Dru,
To answer your question truthfully, no, I do not enter my study of Scripture with any assumptions nor am I swayed by other teachers. In fact, I have what I call my “Spiritual Cupboard” where I keep Scriptures or prophesies that I am on the fence about and they stay in there until I get the answer. I have always done my own personal studies relying soley on the word of God, which I believe is a great benefit, because I am not swayed by this teacher or that teacher. The reason that I can honestly proclaim this is because I can explain the reasons for my interpretions using Scripture to support what I am proclaiming. Today, we have people who just repeat the popular belief or what they hear other people say and they adopt that as their own position, but they can’t explain how they came to that conclusion and that because it is not based on their own studies.
Some of the common errors that people make when studying Scripture, is that they will read something that is meant to be viewed as literal, but will apply a symbolic meaning to it and that because they read someone elses interpretation and adopted it as their own instead of reading the related Scriptures and coming to their own interpretation. Another common error is that people read something that is meant to be viewed as symbolic, but instead of finding God’s provided answer to the symbolism, they pull the answer out of thin air. Bare with me, here is a good example:
“He forced everyone; small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on his right hand or on his forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mar, which is the name of the beast or the number of his name.”
There is nothing in the verse above that would give one the impression that neither the mark nor the right hand, nor the forehead was being spoken of symbolically. Usually parables have something representing something else, Wheat = Righteous, Weeds = evil ones, seed = The Word, Lost coin = wandering believer, etc, etc. Yet, because of other teachers, their videos and books, people will pull out of thin air, with no Scripture to support their claims, claiming that the mark, the right hand and the forehead mentioned in verse are all to be viewed symbolically, which destroys the meaning of what is being said as well as the true warning. So instead of having a literal mark that will be required for being able to buy or sell, which will be controlled by the beast and his government, the right hand is interpreted symbolically as meaning “Action” and the forehead represents “thought or to make a descision” and viola! The mark of the beast is now fulfilled by making the descision to observe the Sabbath on Sunday.
We have a book that has been written called, “The problem with Paul” and because of this, we now have people who agree with the author that Paul was a false apostle and a liar and so none of his letters are to be taken as God inspired. Believe me, if Paul had not had a true encounter with the risen Lord, he would have surely remained a Pharasee and that because prior to encountering Jesus, he was proud of his position and accomplishments. But, God knowing this ahead of time spoke through Peter regarding those who were distorting Paul’s writings, referring to them as Scripture and God inspired and to those who were the ones distorting them, Peter, through the Holy Spirit calls them ignorant and unstable men and doing so to their own destruction. Regarding this, what was true then, is true today and ignorant and unstable men continue to distort what the Lord gave Paul to write through exceedingly great revelations and visions and they are still doing it to their destruction! I think that I said this before, I should write a book called, “The problem with those who wrote the book called ‘The problem with Paul.’ ”
It would have one page containing only 2 pet.3:15-16
Anyway, I’m done now. I am too tired from being in the 112 degree weather today. Talk to ya later.
Yours in Christ
Don Primarily, alienated/Marianne
Your first line in your response, I have to disagree with. I will not bore you with the sociology and philosophy of knowledge from which that is derived.
Your second point is of interest though. should we listen to other teachers for insight. I am guilty of this. I have a MacArthur Bible, and use his comments to help me understand things, I watch some shows on tv w/regard to this. I take what they say with agrain of salt, and try to confirm or deny it from scripture, with the HS as my guide.
Never once have I heard anyone say that the dome of the rock is the building which the A of D prophecy refers to. As I said this contradicts even what MacArthur says in his commentary, a teacher who I admire very much. There is in my opinion, nothing wrong with learning from teachers, so long as the scripture, and the HS is the guide. Yes it does make for “poor defenders” of the position when push comes to shove. I do not know if you had a chance to look at what Marianne posted below, but if you believe in literal word for word interpretation of a verse, then what I have said is the “most” Literal interpretation of Daniel 9:27 wing meaning “overspreading”, and It “fits” with revalation 11 if you consider that the wailing wall is where Jewish people are making their sacrifices via prayers. Prayer is the “sacrifice” which God will accept still, is it not?
As you say above, I am a person that takes scripture literally. There is symbolism, and not just in parables, but prophecy, which takes Guidance to understand, not just from the word of God, but also from the Spirit of Truth.
Alienated- to answer your question, yes, rev 11 refers to future events.
Marianne, your sight was insightful, before that, I had never thought of the wailing wall as THE modern temple.
Don, Iwill respond to your other response to my question later.
Hi Dru,
I have reconsidered answering you after a restful sleep.
Let me first say that I totally forgive you for anything that you said out of anger. Your apology is accepted fully.
Though I believe by “how and what” you write in your last response, that you are still in a state of anger.
Yet I am wondering if this anger is even really warranted?
You said that you became angry because, “The remark that Got me angry, if you will, is when you accused me of starting a new religion or something like that.”
Dru, my comment, “Our opinions must maintain biblical foundation and correlate with scripture, or we are simply creating our own theology.” was not solely directed at you, but rather a comment that we all have to follow.
It should have never been taken so personally, and I am sorry that you took it that way.
You say further down, “I am reacting to your accusations….”
Where above in what I wrote did I accuse you Dru?
You provided verses to substantiate as to why you hold your point of view, where I then supplied my understanding in respects to those very same verses. Simply because they happened to be contrary to yours should not make them accusatory.
Where you then utilize Stephen and the attitude of apostles towards persecution, and then say, ” Is this self-righteous? Is pointing out the difference in the apostles and your attitude toward suffering my self righteousness?”
Well, I guess that would depend on a few things.
Neither Stephen, or the persecution that the apostles experienced were desired by them beforehand. It just happened to be a position that they were placed in.
The attitude that they all demonstrated was a response to that experience. Stephen remained faithful till his end, and the apostles chose to accept the suffering that they had just experienced as being a positive thing.
I don’t believe that any of us know with any certainty if we are capable in demonstrating this same level of love, until we are actually placed into that position.
Yet, you have brought this point up before, where you appear to berate someone who simply hopes beforehand that they do not have to experience something similar, as being somehow less than?
Which in voicing this point of view, (which is one in opposition to the above) does appear to me at least, as being self righteous.
Can you see how this can be understood in this way Dru?
You then say, “My goal in making that comparison is a response to your boastful statement of being regarded “worthy to escape.”
Dru, I am sorry that you perceived what I said as being boastful.
However when you first read what I wrote, and by its omission in your supposed quote above, you appeared to not take into account one very small but significant word. That is the word, ” if “. So I would say that any intention as it somehow being boastful in any way, was in how you received what was said, rather than in what was actually said.
You then say, “As for your criticisms. you attacked my supporting scripture regarding satan being defeated on the cross.”
Dru, in the post previous to my response you say, “Please, be like the Berean’s, If I am wrong correct me.”
All I did was provide you with my understanding of the verses you supplied to substantiate your point of view?
They happened to be different than how you interpret them to be. How can this be consider to be criticism, or attacking you personally in any way?
The reason that I didn’t answer the “conclusion” that you have reached, is because within my interpretation of those same verses, they simply don’t lead me to that same conclusion.
I though that you would understand this as being self evident?
I wish to apologize if anything that I said you took personally Dru. As it being somehow attacking you in any way at all. I thought that I had conveyed that above when I wrote, “If I happen to disagree with you regarding one of your premise’s it is simply a disagreement in our theology, it is not something you should feel the necessity to become defensive about.” However, maybe you were still angry when you read that, so you didn’t take it to heart.
In closing, I would like to touch on one of the questions that you pose to Don.
You say, “A quick question for you though: Are you saying that you do not enter your study of scripture without a set of assumptions and world view which influences your understanding?”
This is something that “we all” have to cautious of.
If when we read scripture, having a set of assumptions and world views which could then influence our understanding, we then can sometimes, unfortunately, locate scripture that supports this preconceived thought or point of view. This happens all the time by almost everybody, so please know that this isn’t directed specifically towards you at all.
The problem that occurs when doing this, is that we are utilizing scripture to support our view, rather than allowing for it to reveal God’s.
It is difficult for all of us to maintain that balancing point, but something we should always remain conscious of.
This is were we then take the time to analyze the motivations of our heart. Are we really seeking God’s truth?
Or are we simply attempting to support something that we may believe?
As I said, it is a difficulty that we all struggle with.
I wish you peace Dru.
Be Blessed
In anger we say things we regret. I am sorry for the way it came out. Read what I wrote to Don Below. The last challenge is the response I was expecting from both of you, not picking apart my “scriptural support” for it. I am no theologian, and I have a difficult time pulling out verses out of a hat on short notice. My “study” of scriptures is quite different than yours. I start with the big picture, Or the “plot” of the book and work my way down to the minutia, you seem to be the opposite. You start with the minutia and see how it fits into the Plot. Your criticism of what is said is done in the same way. It can rub a person the wrong way when you pick apart the minutia in a person, without considering the bigger request. If you are Married and your wife complains about how you do not help around the house after working a 16 hour day, you will understand this distinction. Could and should I do more around the house? yes. But to me that is my secondary goal, To you it is your primary goal.
By saying this I am not inferring that you are a “nagging wife”.LOL
God bless.
Don
I cannot believe that I am arguing with you guys about the fact that satan was defeated on the cross. This has been a position which the church has held since the beginning, much like the trinity. Once you realize this, you will be filled with joy, for the adversity we face in our lives is not the persecution of the devil, but the Lord’s discipline. Yes we do still face persecution at the hands of lawless men, but this pales in comparison to what the early church faced. For a short while, we will face this as well. Very soon I might add.
At least you answered my question on the A of D. You say that revalation 13:14-15 refer to the abomination that causes desolation. Is this not an assumption on your part. I am not denying the truth in that statement, but pointing out that study inevitably leads to assumption. To deny them is to somehow say we can be truly objective as science claims. This is philosophically invalid. There is no such thing as true objectivity in science, especially science dealing with religion, which is what theology is.
Back to the A of D. An image of the beast to me means a statue, as an Idol, I have even heard someone say it could be a Holographic image. Nonetheless it would be a likeness of th Ac, and would be standing. These are in agreement with what Jesus said regarding end times. But now let’s look at Daniel.
Daniel 12:11 ” The abomination that makes desolate is set up”
Daniel 9:27 ” And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate” Here we see a Building (wing of abominations, similar to the west wing of the white house) To which the one who makes desolate comes. This language assumes that the wing is already there.
“until the end is poured out on the desolator.” This language implies that we have a person/being which is a desolator.
So when we have Jesus using the language of an abomination that causes desolation, He is refering to the image, but looking at daniel 9 we see that there are two different things, a wing of abomination, and a Person/image desolator.
Yes You can set up an statue/image, and you can set up a person, But for me I see Daniel 12 referring to the building, the wing of abomination. Yes this is an assumption on my part, but it is based on the wording used in verse 9:27. I know I am going “against the grain” (to use another construction related term) of conventional thought on this interpretation, Even what MacArthur says in his comments, but I see in history where the numbers fit, to a tee. Daniel 12:10b Says “And none of the wicked shall understand, but those who are wise shall understand.” By quoting this, I am not saying that you are wicked, and I am wise, but rather, that these numbers and events are there to be interpreted and understood. They are “sealed” until the endtimes.
What started out as me asking two brothers in Christ to consider what I am saying, especially in regards to doing a linguistic study of the verses in question, became accusatory battle, rather than a time of fellowship and growth in our knowledge.
I took my life experience and applied it to scripture, As do all who read it. For me Getting it right is not about my opinion being the victor, but about God’s will being done. I by no means hold the key to the kingdom, But I do know that God has a plan of redemption, and created us for a reason, and all the endtime events fit into his plan and reason.
Quite frankly, I am upset that I have been accused of false doctrine and theology by you and alienated, when I chose to share and defend what my life experience has led me to believe endtime events will occur and how. Ultimately, Only God knows, the “day and hour”, and they are according to his plan.
God bless, I will refrain from commenting on this, unless you do post the linguistic study of the verses in question. They will either come back as a refutation of what I have said, or as a witness to what I have said. If it refutes, I will confess my error. If it confirms… an apology is in order.
Dru,
(I will try to not be a nagging wife here for you) lol.
And I apologize in advance for the way that I dissect things.
God has simply made me that way. I am simply very analytical by nature. Also I don’t believe that we are arguing here. We are instead in a discussion Okay?
First you have stated Daniel 12: and a portion of verse 11 itself,
“The abomination that makes desolate is set up.”
Then you follow it up with Daniel 9: and a portion of verse 27,
“And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate.”
Now, in my sincere attempt to see where it is that you are coming from, are you saying that the abomination that makes desolate is set up, as being a building then, and that on a wing of that building a image of the beast will then be placed there? And that because, since the Dome of the Rock already exists, that “it ” is that building?
If I am correct with that, and that is indeed what you are implying, then lets do what you suggest above and look at this linguistically then.
Above you say, “Daniel 9:27 ” And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate”
The word wing above, is translated into English from the Hebrew “kanaph” (Strong’s 3671) and was originally translated as “overspreading” in the King James. (Kanaph would incorporate the English words, “and on the wing” in your Bible.) The definitions for kanaph are wing, extremity, edge, winged, border, corner, shirt, skirt, or corner (of garment). Which would then indeed imply that on an extremity, edge or wing of something, this image itself will be placed. However, I don’t believe that it could be in the dome of the rock.
That is because there is no Holy of Holies there.
Therefore that must mean that another Temple has to be built.
This also would then appear to confirm what it is that Don utilizes scripturally,( within his response to you above), to be more than likely true.
Don said, “Jesus clarified what Daniel meant by the abomination sitting on “A wing of the temple” which is where this abomination is going to be standing as can be seen in the following verse:
“So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet –”
Therefore in the verse above, Jesus clarifies the “Wing of the temple” as “The holy place,” which as I posted previously, is the room just outside of the Holy of Holies.”
Where you say, “This language assumes that the wing is already there.” You are correct with that. For when those words were initially spoken, the Temple was indeed still there. As you know though, it isn’t now. And there is no way in my opinion that the Jews would utilize the dome of the rock to hold (what they perceive to be) their sacred ceremonies in. That would be tantamount to Christians setting up a church in what was formerly known to be a satanist hang out.
I just can’t see that happening.
The above are just my thoughts Dru. But in respect to your two last paragraphs above. Please don’t take them out of context as being attacking, accusatory, or that you are propagating some type of false doctrine whatsoever, for that is not my intention at all. It never was my brother, and I have already apologized to you, simply because you felt that way.
Also, if I may, here are some sites that I believe would assist you in your pursuit of truth. You are intelligent and would figure out how to use them in no time at all. I find them very valuable in my own studies.
http://www.biblestudytools.com
http://www.blueletterbible.org
I hope that you check them out, because they will assist you in taking your studies to a new level.
Be Blessed Dru.
alienated.
that is what I was looking for.
Your description of what my “theory” was is a little off. What I am saying is as follows: Daniel 9:27 there is a wing of abominations, a building or a place, and a desolator, a person or idol. The way I see it, The dome of the Rock is located On the holy place, Where the temple once stood. It is a building, and it is an abomination, and, you ready for this, “overspreading” the temple mount. The image of the Ac will be be placed there as is described in revalation 13 in the end times perhaps on the Wailing wall. What I am saying, is that there will be no Jewish temple built there.
I will continue later…
Hi Dru,
Glad that my response didn’t cause any problems at all.
Okay, you don’t believe then that a new Temple will be built.
Can I ask you this, ” Do you believe that the Two Witnesses” are still something that will happen in the future? If so, read Revelation 11.
Be Blessed
Hi guys and girls,
Just an FYI, from what I have read regarding those who are and have been researching the temple mount and the actual site of the Holy of Holies, namely Chuck Missler and Grant Jefrey, they have found that the there are a couple of different locations for the actual site, one being 150′ south of the dome of the rock, (If I remember correctly,)which would place the dome of the rock in the outer court of the new temple.
“But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will tramp on the holy city for 42 months.”
Ibid Two things, one, Israel will never rebuild the temple to restart animal sacrifices unless its center is the Holy of Holies, because if the actual location of the Holy of Holies was not an issue, then they would have already, long ago, begun sacrificing according to the law of Moses. And two, Israel would never worship in the temple of those who worship a false god.
Those who have been researching the actual location are pretty confident that, the dome of the rock is not sitting on the Holy of Holies. For more information regarding this issue, I would suggest picking up “The New Temple and the Second Coming” by Grant Jeffery and as I mentioned earlier, another book that is good for information regarding what is going with the temple is by Chuck Missler called, “The Coming Temple.” In fact, I think I will reread it my own self.
Hey Don, and all.
Above you say,Israel will never rebuild the temple to restart animal sacrifices unless its center is the Holy of Holies, “because if the actual location of the Holy of Holies was not an issue, then they would have already, long ago, begun sacrificing according to the law of Moses.”
The portion of your quote above that I placed in brackets is definitely pertinent, and logical.
There has been a group of Orthodox Jews that have been already to get going with this for years. What could possibly be holding them back?
Obviously they are wanting that Temple again first.
That is a good point.
Be Blessed
Hi everyone
My 2 cents on the wings and abomination…….
and the discussion continues, I guess.
Hi Marianne,
Sure, you can give out advise to someone else to perhaps be more concise, (we won’t mention any names….. “me” lol) But it’s easy for you to just post a link to something. That is just not fair. lol.
But I’ll pose the same question to you that I posed to Dru above regarding Rev. 11. Doesn’t this suggest that a new earthly Temple will be built?
Be Blessed
hi alienated
Yes, it is fair for me to post a link…. 🙂 because I wrote the contents on that link for discussions such as this, so I would not have to repeat myself a lot.
So go read it!!!! 🙂
A complete new earthly temple may not be needed. Acc to Rev 11, all you need is an altar, and a court “given to the gentiles.”
The tabernacle of David was just a tent. No permanent structure. They have a practice temple in Jericho right now, and they are already training priests in the sacrificial rituals.
They can put a tent anywhere.
The only thing left of the last temple is the Western Wall. It is considered one of the outer “wings” of that temple, and is considered the holy place by the Jews.
Watch what happens over there. We should find out soon (I hope) how things will turn out.
Hi Marianne, and all.
Well sure, of course you think that it’s fair that you can just post a link. lol. 🙂
Though concise, in saying ” A temple doesn’t necessarily have to be built for the sacrifices to begin again.
They could perhaps be conducted on a edge, or corner of where the Temple originally stood.” it just don’t cut it. lol.
Yes, yes, I agree that sometimes perhaps in wanting to provide clarity, I may at times carry on at length. (sigh)
However, I can’t just post a link like you can.
So sue me. lol 🙂
Okay, back to the topic at hand;
I have never really looked into this particular subject in any great depth before. So in a way, it may be quite enlightening. I think that I had just, get ready for it, “assumed” that a new Temple would be built, based upon verses that state that the actual sacrifices will at some future time, be reestablished.
Sacrifices? Hmmm, that must equal Temple? Not a far stretch be any means, but is it the correct conclusion?
Ezekiel chapters 40 through and including 43, are a description of the new Millenial Kingdom Temple.
As would be references such as Isaiah 2:3., 60:13., Daniel 9:24., Joel 3:17,18., Haggai 2:7,9., as are those that you posted above as well.
I have not been able to definitively locate any scripture that would indicate that another man made Temple will be built prior to Yeshua’s Second Coming?
The only thing, (though rather ambiguous) that would suggest anything being built would be in Daniel 9:25,26.
“25 Know therefore and understand , that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again , and the wall, even in troublous times.
26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off , but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.”
The word “street” in verse 25 is translated from the transliterated Hebrew “rĕchob” (Strong’s 7339) and its definition is, “a broad or open place or plaza.” This could simply be referring as to what already exists now today?
The words, “shall be built again” are from the Hebrew “banah (Strong’s 1129) and shuwb (Strong’s 7725)” respectively.
The primary definition for “banah” is, ” to build, rebuild, establish, cause to continue.”
The primary definition for “shuwb” is, ” to return, turn back.” (Hence the translation to build again.)
The words translated as “and the wall” are from the Hebrew “charuwts” (Strong’s 2742) and its primary definition in relation to anything actually being built would be, “a trench, moat, ditch.”
Never having been there myself, I am not sure if one literally exists already, or what its relevance would actually mean?
In verse 26, there is the translated word “sanctuary”.
I think that I have simply correlated this English word with my preconceived English definition as to it referring to a Temple? ( I know, I know, I have expressed to others in the past that to do this, is never a good idea. Again, “sue me.”)
The words “and the sanctuary” is from the Hebrew, “Qodesh” (Strong’s 6944) and its primary definition is, “apartness, sacredness, holiness, of God, of places, of things.”
This would imply that the words “and the sanctuary” are more to do with “separateness” rather than anything to do with a literal Temple itself.
I think that I will now have to do a separate study regarding this. (Like I don’t have enough things on my plate already. lol)
However it is relevant to my study regarding the
“rapture” and could be one of the “prerequisites” I believed was required prior to this event, (that could simply be scratched from the list) leaving then only the “apostasia” ( falling away) remaining.
This is so totally off of the subject of America the Restrainer, but I am happy that we somehow arrived here.
Maybe I should throw out a “thank you” to Dru of sorts? Perhaps an apology may be in order down the road too?
We’ll have to see. lol.
To all, Be Blessed.
P.S. Sorry that this wasn’t concise. lol. 🙂
hi alienated
The Jews will follow , maybe unknowingly, the natural leadings of the holy spirit, and then we will find out how the temple issue plays out.
Marianne,
Following are a couple of e mails from an Orthodox Jewish website I view online. These are relevant to your conversation:
godssecret | April 17, 2011 at 7:30 am | Categories: REDEMPTION | URL: http://wp.me/pgt5B-1GW
Passover is upon us again, but this year is not like times in the past. The exile is almost over, almost half of the Hebrew people live in the Holy land. The Temple mount is not controlled by the the government of Israel.
It grieves me that we are not going to bring out “Corban Passach” (the Passover offering)
This year. There is no reason for this to be. If the Government can bring millions of tourists up to the Temple Mount, it up time we start bringing the Corban Passach !
THIS IS THE WILL OF GOD, AS FOUND IN THE TORAH.
There is no reason to not do this, by law even when the whole community is Tami (impure) and the is no “Para Duma” (red cow to purify from tuma). The Corban Passach must be brought. Any question of where the alter is supposed to be can be decided by majority opinion that is the law.
Its time to leave the exile mentality and start living appropriately in the Holy land as the Torah tells us.
It is simple.
In the Torah God says :
“. Observe the month of Abib, and keep the Passover to the Lord your God; for in the month of Abib the Lord your God brought you out of Egypt by night.
You shall therefore sacrifice the Passover to the Lord your God, of the flock and the herd, in the place which the Lord shall choose to place his name there.”
(Deut )
we should begin to do as written in the Torah, the days of exile are over.
We are living in the past !
THE TIME IS NOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hello Ashupert2,
May I point out that, we are not the nation Israel, as we are a totally different entity called the “The Church of Jesus Christ,” which is a new and separate covenent from the law made up of both Jew and Gentile and which made the covenent of the law of Moses obsolete. We were not led out of Egypt, as this event is specific to the nation Israel. However, Jesus is our passover Lamb, that is, in the same way that the blood over the doorpost of houses of Israel in Egypt saved them from death, so are we also saved by the blood of Jesus Christ which covers us, which is who the event of the passover was and is pointing to. For as the Lord has said:
“Then he took the cup, gave thanks and offered it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all off you. This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” (1 Cor.11:23-26)
Regarding this Paul said:
“By calling this covenent “New,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disapear.” (Hebr.8:13)
Hey Don,
The only thing that I wrote above were these words:
“Following are a couple of e mails from an Orthodox Jewish website I view online. These are relevant to your conversation”:
Everything else was part of the e mail I received. I have never encouraged or believed that animal sacrifices are for today. You said a lot in your statement, though, and I am sure at some point we will have the discussion. Always good to talk with you.
Be Blessed in Mahshiach
Marianne,
This is a differnet e mail from the same group, but with a lot more information.
hi ashupert2
as always…..it looks complicated. !!
Hi all,
This is something that has been kicking around in my old mind over the last little while. It is not on topic regarding America the Restrainer at all, but with all this talk regarding the necessity or not of requiring the Temple now, it is somewhat related.
I will just throw this out there and see what the feedback consists of.
Okay, in 2 Thessalonians 2:3a, Paul states the following, ” Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the [falling away] comes first.”
Above I have placed the words “falling away” in brackets. As you probably all know the word “away” is translated into English from the Greek “Apostasia”.
This is the only time this event, (falling away) is mentioned in the whole chapter.
(I will come back to this point later on.)
The only other time this word, is utilized at all in the whole of the New Testament is in Acts 21:21., where “apostasia” is translated into the word, “forsake”.
“20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord. And they said to him, “You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law;
21 but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to [forsake] Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs.
Now here is where I request that everyone reading this, take a moment to think outside of the box with me here, and to just apply logic to what I am going to propose.
Though it is obvious that Paul had the previous opportunity, (prior even to 1 Thessalonians), to sit down face to face with the them and explain many of the things that had been revealed to him after he had been caught up to heaven. (2 Corinthians 12:2-4) I have noticed that he didn’t have to clarify to them at all about anything regarding the falling away within this second epistle. Therefore would it be logical to assume that this was an aspect that the Thessalonians understood?
If you agree that this assumption appears to have foundation, then that would leave a couple of possible theories.
(1) While with them face to face, Paul went into great detail regarding a time in the future, where a large body of believers existed, and that then at that time, something would happen which made a majority of them fall away from their faith in Yeshua.
However, if that was indeed the case, if Paul had actually told them that and they understood that teaching to be true, then why were they now in a state of panic and concern? How if they understood that there was the necessity of this happening sometime off in the far future now elude them at this time?
(2) Or, is there the possibility that what Paul actually told them, was something that they could actually comprehend because it was more relevant culturally to them?
What if what Paul told them about the “falling away” had more to do with Israel, than what many believe today as having more to do with the church?
What if Paul had told them happened to be that there will be a time when all sacrifices will stop, but when they begin again that will be the falling away instead?
In Hebrew there are two words that could possibly be utilized as “falling away”. The first is “Naphal” and the second is “Suwt”. Naphal would be stretching its definition, but Suwt could definitely be used as to maintaining the same context. So, what are the two verses that use the word “suwt”.
“Blessed is that man who makes the Lord his trust, And does not respect the proud, nor such as [turn aside] to lies.” Psalm 40:4. NKJV.
And Psalm 101:3. NKJV.
” I will set nothing wicked before my eyes; I hate the work of those who [fall away]; It shall not cling to me.”
And what is it that God the Father says about how He feels about sacrifices?
“11 “To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices to Me?” Says the Lord. “I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams And the fat of fed cattle. I do not delight in the blood of bulls, Or of lambs or goats.
12 “When you come to appear before Me, Who has required this from your hand, To trample My courts?
13 Bring no more futile sacrifices; Incense is an abomination to Me. The New Moons, the Sabbaths, and the calling of assemblies– I cannot endure iniquity and the sacred meeting.
14 Your New Moons and your appointed feasts My soul hates; They are a trouble to Me, I am weary of bearing them.” Isaiah 1:11-14. NKJV.
I am just wondering if the context of the falling away has more to do with say the Jews starting to sacrifice again?
It is a blatant demonstration of disregard for Yeshua as their Messiah, in attempting to reconcile themselves to God with sacrifices that He no longer desires?
I’m interested in hearing any thoughts about this either positive or negative.
BTW, there also has been a significant amount of Jews converting to Buddhism over say the last 15 years too.
I wonder if that could also be a possibility as well?
Be Blessed
The apsostate falling away is always ignored by Christendom, and I use the term reservedly, because so many have chosen to ignore the true history of the first thousand year rule of Catholicism and its’ debauched popes that sunk the world into a thousand years of darkness, violence and terrible ignorance because they outlawed the whole Bible to all but themselves and the ruling elite. Imagine being burned if caught reading it or burned because you can read it, was an evil we cannot imagine because we have not been outlawed from doing either. It was a terrible time on the earth and evil beyond mention and they slaughtered more than WW I and WWII together. What you have said here is on the mark and those by faith grafted to the tree of Abraham, the Jews, were and remain just that a grafted branch, through Yeshua gratefully saved. All the rest is mans apostasy teaching that the church branch should all of a sudden become a root and tree and totally against Romans where Paul warns Christians lest they are cut off.
Alienated
I think you hit the nail on the head. Read Psalm 50. The sacrifices that God wants are those of thanksgiving and praise, which is what the wailing wall is all about. Psalm 50 has prophetic overtones as well as being condemning of ritualism. God has restored and protected Israel for the past 63 years, and now they want to turn to “ritualism” to save them, Rather than thanking him for his kindness. Romans 2:4 says “…Gods kindness is meant to lead to repentence.” This is the difference btwn the old and new covenent. We repent because of his love, as opposed to fear of judgement. If you can, read the note by Macarthur for Mal 3:16. I believe this is the implication for those Jews who are around for the “Great Day of the Lord”.
The fear in 3:16 is reverent fear, which comes with assurance and belief. Just like for Christians, we repent because of God’s kindness, What he did on the cross, as opposed to fear of judgement for our lawlessness. Though the law convicts us of our deserved punishment, and condemnation, his mercy deserves reverent fear.
The best example I can give of this difference is that of a benevolent king, versus a despotic king who rules with fear. Since God is righteous, he desires we serve out of reverent fear, as opposed to fear of judgement. Respect and thankfullness for his “steadfast love”, as opposed to ritualism and works to appease his judgement of the disobedient.
It is similar to churches that preach abundence and reward for those who do this or that. Or who preach that if you accept Jesus into your heart you will have eternal life, but if you don’t, Death. Of course you are going to choose the former, but this is not the Gospel. the Gospel is about grace,Love,and God’s kindness. Becoming a Christian is about our response to his kindness NOT fear of judgement. Yes eternal life is guranteed, but this “Reward” should not be our motive either.
I believe that God has reached out to Israel, and restored them out of his steadfast love, and their response to him is critical. Do they respond to his kindness with reverence and sacrifices of thanksgiving, or do they return to ritualism and self righteousness. So yes the return of blood sacrifice equates to a falling away or apostacy. The Jewish people with apure heart, will continue offering sacrifices of thanksgiving and praise, and not revert to ritualism. They will be the ones that will have their hearts of stone turned to hearts of flesh, and will not be blind to the messiah. They will be the one’s who repent because of his kindness, when they realize that It is their Messiah “whom they have pierced”.
We should Love and revere God because he IS LOVE, and becuse he IS GOD. And he is to be glorified.
hey dru
You know, it is possible to offer praise and thanksgiving at the wall, and still be sincere and want to offer animal sacrifices out of a pure desire to please God.
I thought I would just throw that in there.!
Marianne
I do not think I understand jewish culture enough to comment. I do know that God has “no need” for these sacrifices as is written in Old testament prophecy, which is quoted above. So my question is: why try to please God with what he does not need or want? It is not like this is new testament scripture that are saying this.
I would be curious to know, if this is even a debate that is going on in Israel among Jewish leaders, or is it a given that sacrifice will occur. In other words are they ignoring the prophets still?
Hi Marianne,
My above proposal is just some thoughts that have been rolling around. I have no definative proof whatsoever in the theory.
And I understand the sentiment that you voice to Dru as well.
But is the sincerity of mens hearts all that it really takes?
And if that is the case, then what was the point of Yeshua’s sacrifice?
As Christians, or those that follow the Lord, we know that He is” the way, the truth, and the life. And that no one comes to the Father except through Him.” (ie; John 14:6.)
So this would also include the people of Israel, correct?
So would it really matter at all, what the sincerity of their hearts were in performing these sacrifices, when they are still in denial of Yeshua as being their Savior Messiah? Attempting to reconcile themselves through the old ineffectual covenant, when the new through Yeshua, is the only way now to do so? And will God even hear their prayers, or honor these offerings?
Above I have posted Isaiah 1:11-14. Yet though there are numerous other verses that one could reference that say basically the same thing, I would suggest reading all of Amos chapter 5.
Be Blessed
Zech 12:10-13:1
hi Dru and alienated
True, animal sacrifices are not needed now, but the Jews do not know that. They are still under the old covenant, and understand the sacrifices to be obedience to God, not apostasy.
I think God does hear their prayers, as he would not break his promises to them.
They are handicapped in their own blindness, which God will remove from them soon.
They are blind right now, just like we used to be, before salvation.
Did God hear our prayers, when we were struggling to seek him BEFORE we found him?
The Jews who are truly seeking God, but are still in the dark, will be heard. They are the elect who will soon wake up, accept their Messiah, and suffer for their faith. They will be the martyrs of the tribulation, and will suffer more than we ever have.
Hi all,
Okay lets not take my proposal above completely out of context as in being some sort of anti-Semitic condemnation. It is not!
Neither am I unaware that there is apostasia in what should be the true faith of the Church either.
My point above was, that it is commonly understood by many, that the “falling away” is that of the Church.
Yet there is the possibility that it isn’t, and would instead have something to do more with Israel.
To simply disregard that possibility is ridiculous for there is a 50% chance either way.
How can one expect to arrive at a correct conclusion, by simply ignoring half of the equation?
Marianne, above you say, “True, animal sacrifices are not needed now, but the Jews do not know that. They are still under the old covenant, and understand the sacrifices to be obedience to God, not apostasy.”
That is true, but whether or not the Jews happen to still believe that the old covenant is still in effect, and that animal sacrifices are a demonstration of obedience to God, does not change what the real truth of God is.
Mans interpretation will never supersede that of God.
Therefore, in what Paul had explained to the Thessalonians as being the “apostasia” could very well be something that they could have understood culturally, rather than being what is commonly held as being referring to the church of today.
It all depends upon as to how God perceives this act in His eyes, and has nothing to do with how man would perceive it at all.
Though ultimately this is all being orchestrated by God for His good purpose, How do you think He would perceive a people that He sacrificed Himself for, told them all about it through the prophets, yet they, based upon their own understanding chose to not believe? Is there not the possibility then, that the act of performing animal sacrifices again would be simply considered to be an abomination in His eyes? This is my proposal.
I am not saying that it is correct. I am simply stating that it could have merit as a possibility.
You close above with, “They are the elect who will soon wake up, accept their Messiah, and suffer for their faith. They will be the martyrs of the tribulation, and will suffer more than we ever have.”
I believe that I expressed this point within a post near the top of the rapture page, (June 1st.) where I stated that the word “elect” in Matthew 24:22 etc. couldn’t possibly be referring to the church at that time. I also believe that there will be others that are not of Jewish heritage that will be martyrs of the tribulation as well.
My point is, my proposal is not anti-Semitic in any way, but that all possibilities need to be taken into consideration.
Apparently this was not fully understood by some, which is evident by Al’s “THANK YOU”!!!!!!!” below, which suggests some type of cavalry rescue to their defense.
Be Blessed
I did not see what you said as antisemitic.
Hi Marianne,
I was just clarifying my point for those that perhaps did.
Marianne
I just had another thought as i posted my previous comment. Cain and Abel both offered sacrifices to God. God rejected one, and accepted the other. The one he accepted were the grain offerings. I wonder if this has any play in our discussion here?
Hi Dru,
I know that you know this already, but it wasn’t what you wrote above.
So this is more just to correct it for others, and to eliminate any confusion.
Cain was the one that offered the fruit of the ground that was rejected, and Able was the one that offered the first born of his flock that was accepted.
Be Blessed
Alienated
You are correct. That is what happens when you write w/o checking. Glad you caught that!
Hi Dru, Alienated and all,
Hope you all are having a beautiful day.
In response to the following that you wrote Dru:
“Becoming a Christian is about our response to his kindness NOT fear of judgement.”
What do you think about the following Scripture that Jesus spoke to his disciples in relation to what you said above?:
“Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. (Mt.10:28)
The context in the verse above gives us the reason as to who we should fear as well as to with what kind of fear we should have and that by the mentioning of him who is able to destroy both body and soul in hell.
The word “Salvation” itself should beg the question, “Saved from what?” I believe that it is a combination of the true fear of God and also recognizing his love to save us from that threat. The only reason that we are escaping the lake of fire in the first place is because of his grace and mercy which is afforded through his Son Jesus Christ. And so we should fear God as in knowing that he is able to destroy our soul and body in hell, but at the same time be thankful for his grace, mercy and his love.
You also said below:
“So yes, the return of blood sacrifice equates to a falling away or apostacy.”
The falling away as described in 2 Thes.2:3 is synonymous with what Jesus described in Mt.24:9-10 as seen below:
“Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me.
At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other,”
So, it is because of the consequences of persecution and death by association to Christ, which would appear to be the reason for the falling away.
I do not believe that because they turn back to animal sacrifices that this constitutes the falling away.
The covenant that we have is by grace through faith. God’s part is grace and our part is faith, on-going faith. So, whatever group he is speaking about in the verse above, the reasons for the falling away is because of the threat of persecution and death and that because of their faith in Christ. And by their abandonment they are basically saying that, they love their lives more than Jesus and therefore, are not willing to give up their lives for his name sake or the gospel. One thing is certain; you have to be in Christ in order to fall away from him in the first place.
As far as Israel goes, currently they do not believe in Jesus as their Messiah, nor are they keeping the whole law. If the law was still in effect, they would currently have no atonement for their sins and that because they were required to fulfill every bit of the law, all 800 or more of them. So, according to the law, they would be steeped in sin and separated from God and that because there is no High Priest going into the Holy of Holies every year to make atonement for the people, not to mention all the other daily sacrifices and offerings that have not been done for 1900 years. Since we now have access to God through Christ who is our High Priest, what about those who have not received Christ? Then they have no communication with God, including those at the Wailing Wall, for they are not praying in the name of Jesus who is our High Priest. But to be sure, there are still outstanding prophecies regarding Israel and the completion of those is coming up.
I believe that I posted this before and that is, seventy ‘sevens’ were prophesied by the angel for Daniels people Israel. Sixty nine of those ‘sevens’ where completed at the crucifixion of Christ (The anointed One cut off). At that time God left off at sixty nine of the seventy sevens and began to build his Church, which is still currently in progress. Ibid that once God has completed building his church, the resurrection and catching away will take place and then God will then take up where he left off with Israel and continue with that seventieth seven or that last seven years, as described in Dan.9:27, which will conclude with that Rock that was cut out of the mountain, without human hands, smashing the statue to pieces, which represents the dismantling of all human governments and never to be revived again. Anyway, sorry for rambling on.
Yours in Chirst
Don
What I was referring to w/ regard to reverent fear vs. fear of Judgement was in regards to those who are saved. The Law still condemns and judges those who are not saved. Fear of judgement is a “motivator” for unsaved people, but the gospel offers an answer to it. That is God’s kindness and mercy. My wording did not come out the way I intended. My point is that the Gospel should be presented in such a way as to create a response to God’s kindness as opposed to his judgement. There are those who do not believe in any kind of divine creator, however, for whom we must preach “hell fire and brimstone” to until they believe there is a creator. Once we are saved, we move and grow in our faith, our relationship grows from one of fear to one of reverent submission.
I know this is kind of a subtle thing, But it is kind of how it is presented in John 3:16-18 God’s love first, and then the consequence of unbelief. Legalism is rooted in the motive of avoidance of judgement, But faith that is right focuses on the cross and God’s love. We are free from punishment because of Jesus’ blood for by his stripes we were healed.
Marianne
I hope you see this. We had a discussion on another page when I first started commenting on your site with regard to preaching the Gospel to the Jewish people. You said that they were not ready to hear it yet. If we are in the endtimes, shouldn’t we be reaching out to them with the gospel, or are they destined to go through the tribulation. It seems heartbreaking to me that they should have to go through another holocaust! That is why I brought up the issue of God’s kindness. and Zech 12:10 again.
Al, Marianne
I am not trying to condemn a jewish person for living by the Old covenent laws, I am just trying to think outside the conventional with regard to the topic of abominations. We know from the Torah that there are many things that are abominations. The Root sin of all of them is Idolotry. Then in the OT prophets, the actual temple sacrifices are called abominations as well for future events. I am also seeing many mainline protestent churches “going back” to celebrating the Jewish feasts, could the falling away and abomination be this??? I am not saying that understanding the feasts is not important to Christians, but to actually revert to performing these rituals thinking they have some value is akin to idolotry.
I am also not denying that there are other apostacies in the church, as your video pointed out which we must be aware of.
I Know these last comments will draw much ire and controversy, but I think this is a topic which must be “hashed out” now, lest we fall away. I pose this question to you two, because you are “into” the messianic judaism stuff, Where as I am largely ignorant of the movement. I am, however, seeing it all over the place in the churches.
I look forward to your responses.
hi Dru
I did say the Jews are not ready, but i should have clarified that it was the fault of christians that they are this way. Christians have persecuted them throughout history, and have a terrible way of witnessing to them when they do try. The Jews need a more academic approach based on Torah that they can relate to. Not a lot of NT verses thrown at them.
Absolkutely Marianne and the Lord says He will remove the veil on Israels’ eyes which is there until the Time of the Gentiles is filled which is happened when Israel became a nation and Jerusalem was re-untited as one Capital of Israel, 1948 and 1967.
Hi Don,
Hope that you are having a wonderful day yourself.
If I may respond to what you say above.
There appears to be a specific sequence of events that are necessary.
Lets look at the verses in question.
“3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,” 2 Thessalonians 2;3.
and,
“7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.” 2 Thessalonians 2:7,8.
Therefore we can see from what is written above, that “before the Day” the “falling away” must come “first”, and that “He that now restrains” (be it the Holy Spirit, or Michael the archangel) “must be taken out of the way, before the lawless one will be revealed”.
The words that you quote above that Yeshua speaks, are in my opinion, “the result” or aftermath of the lawless one appearance already occurring, and demonstrating his supposed authority.
“Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other,” Matthew 24:9,10.
Verse 10 itself, is in my opinion, those that were foolish in the parable of the Ten Virgins. Yeshua is speaking of those that now chose their life, rather than to maintain their faith in Him.
This is indeed a “falling away” yet it can’t (by what appears to be the necessary sequence), be the initial catalyst or falling away. Rather, it may just be a part of an ongoing continuation.
(Unfortunately, I suspect that many that are left behind will become bitter because of that, not being able to comprehend as to why they had been left after the rapture. This will, or could, be their motivation in why to change their allegiance. These will accept the mark of the beast.)
This would then bring us back to the relevance of the other verse that you quoted;
“Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.” Matthew 10:28.
So, something has to be the initial “falling away”? My proposal above was simply to bring to mind, another potential possibility.
You also say above, “But to be sure, there are still outstanding prophecies regarding Israel and the completion of those is coming up.
I believe that I posted this before and that is, seventy ‘sevens’ were prophesied by the angel for Daniels people Israel. Sixty nine of those ‘sevens’ where completed at the crucifixion of Christ (The anointed One cut off). At that time God left off at sixty nine of the seventy sevens and began to build his Church, which is still currently in progress. Ibid that once God has completed building his church, the resurrection and catching away will take place and then God will then take up where he left off with Israel.”
This I agree with totally. The covenant made with Israel will indeed be fulfilled.
Hey, I like your ramblings. lol.
Be Blessed
After posting this and reading it again, something came to mind?
It is more or less what it is that I have believed for a long time now.
What if the “falling away” and the “He that is restraining” are directly related to each other?
A interconnected event of singularity?
It is my opinion that the “He” is the Holy Spirit. And that the Church that enters through the door of Matthew 25:10, and don’t find it shut, are those that have proven themselves worthy of escape of the tribulation. (Luke 21:36.)
This to me suggests that those that have found the door shut (the foolish) have quenched the Spirit.
They had no oil.(1 Thessalonians 5:19.)
Therefore, since already quenched, He, (the Holy Spirit) goes back with those that are raptured and leaves those that have been left behind. This would now allow for the lawless one to make his appearance. (it is interesting to note that the actual marriage celebration regarding Jewish tradition lasts a total of 7 (seven) days.)
Going back to my original thoughts now, and maybe staying there. lol.
Be Blessed.
Don
Your response to my question above was well said. I do not think the bible touches the question much which I asked.
The reason I asked this question, is because I cannot figure out why people would rebel against the righteous rule of the Messiah, and why God would go through all the trouble to Judge and weed out the wickedness in the world at his second coming only to have them rebel again.
The only thing I can think of is that this pertains to God’s unfulfilled promises to Israel. In other words, the millenial reign is God’s way of showing his chosen people his steadfast Love and righteousness to them. That he has never broken his covenent with them.? But then why weed out the wicked?
The other reason why I asked this question is because not much is said in the bible with regard to why. In other words, we have to give an answer which make assumptions. My point being, that all of our answers to questions start with our understanding of the Gospel which comes from the culture we are brought up in and to a degree our “interpretation”. Truth, with a capital T Comes only with knowing God, and from the Holy spirit, who reveals God to us. So yes, I believe the HS reveals only what is in the word of God, but sometimes, our assumptions have concealed that intended meaning. For example, the A of D. For years now this concept has been handed down to us as one entity, IF it is refering to both a building and a person as stated above. How much of our current understanding of prophecy is based on this “incorrect” assumption? When one of these incorrect “Dogmas” is corrected by the HS it takes our knowledge of scripture to a whole new level. Epignosis, or knowledge upon knowledge.
Going back to my original questions on the millenium, and satan being released at the end of it. Many of these things have not been “unsealed” yet, but I am sure the answers are in the Word of God. If what was revealed about the A of D is from the HS then our epignosis of God’s word will grow and mature. I in no way can take credit for this revalation, as I was only the vessel from which it was poured.
This is also why it is important to be like the Bereans. What they were tought by Paul challenged their dogma and assumptions, yet they deemed it to be true by scripture. They were not so set in their assumptions and dogma, that they could not accept Paul’s revalation, yet they were wise enough to see that it was scriptural. So there are two lessens to be learned from the bereans.
Christians should not focus so much on the “apostasy” of the Jews, when Churches in America are embracing Islam as an equal partner.
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Marianne,
“THANK YOU”!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The following is a copy of an email that I just sent to donna@faithshared.org
Greetings,
I see by the information you have posted on your site that “Faith Shared” is hoping to alleviate the religious tensions that exist today amongst a variety of faiths. Standing behind the premise of “Human Rights First” and in maintaining the Country’s proud and longstanding tradition of religious freedom, tolerance and pluralism.
Do you not suppose that God should come first, and the traditions of men second?
Thank you for perhaps fulfilling 2 Thessalonians 2:3a for those of us who actually look forward to His appearing, which by your actions is now ever increasingly closer.
Well just more proof that the last days are so close you see the smoke rising up
out of Hell for all who don’t love him or believe in him.
71 Churches so far defected the belief in the life of Christ? When they are starving or our nation being bombed or their children are dying they will remember who Jesus Christ is and his great love, and how he never leaves us nor forsake us
if we only believe. He suffered it all !!!!
I don’t suppose head chopping or making women lower than animals could enter the brains of people who believe in joining in with worshipers of black Rocks. They must have mistaken salvation for the “pet chia rock” syndrome.
This is what happens to people because the Church leaders build mega churches without the Bible as a foundation of faith, instead it is a party atmosphere. You have to meet God and know him as your savior to know what you are turning from and to also in this case. The Bible says for a reason to fear God who can destroy both soul and body. Does the USA have to follow every crazed insane and sick leader.
I am glad I am going where the lamb is the light and darkness never comes. For
true believers have been enduring for their faith the past few years. But the Father never forgets his children and his children never forget the Father. The others never new him.
I can’t wait to say home, home at last.
Here is the news on Jack Van Impe and the split with TBN over speaking out about Rick Warren and the rest.
http://www.bible-knowledge.com/blog/index.php/2011/06/27/jack-van-impe-leaves-tbn/
hi Pattie
That is really sad and unfair to Jack van IMpe. They should be removing the wrong ones, instead of him……
Here are some of the Jack van impe presents on chrislam and on issues of more evil for our nation based on this current President, and the crazy rick warren.
Jack van impe—chrislam—leaves TBN
rick warren and his filth to include saying it is ok to be a gay
June 16 Dictator President Obama
Jack Van impe and the things happening because of Pres. Obama
June 21
The Catholic sister who said they ought to return to their own land
(she was speaking of Israel?)
Hi Pattie
I had someone else write me today about this as well.
Write to TBN and complain.
http://www.tbn.org/contact/contact-form
this is what I wrote:
You have made a serious error in upholding heretics like Rick Warren and Robert Schuller, and discriminating against a true Christian like Jack Van Impe. If you do not oppose the heresy, then you support it, and you are responsible for the heresy as much as the false teacher. You are all apostates now. I really pray you wake up and see the destruction you are creating by propagating false Christianity on your airways.
Marianne
I hope you got my email and copy of their response to me. I stood up for what is right. I love the Lord, he is my Father, healer, provider, keeper of my soul and sanity. When the enemy comes in like a flood the Lord he parts the water and makes my path to walk through the world I know longer know or understand. I spend days not looking to what I shall put up for here but to the home one day where he shall take me.
Be blessed in the Lord and hoping always for that precious promised tomorrow in our home land.
Marianne. Bros. and Sisters in Christ
Pray for the people in Israel as I received an email saying:
“Army sources tell ‘Post’ they have intelligence showing some participants in upcoming flotilla plan to use chemical weapons against troops; flotilla member Dror Feiler: Claims “are attempt to justify IDF violence.”
God bless in Jesus Christ name, amen
ok. When is this next flotilla?
Marianne
Here are the two theme songs made for this horrible acts and the June 29th2011 Israel Post press release.
http://www.jpost.com/Defense/Article.aspx?id=226885
press release today 6-29-2011
Gaza Flotilla two theme Songs (hey Jews)
Egyptian Revolution Blues—sandy cash
http://www.frc.org/prayerteam/prayer-targets-special-2011-call2fall-edition
This is a message I recieved from one of my prayer team partners. Brothers and Sisters in the Lord are looking for other believers to join on July 3rd 2011 about the issues listed on the site, like gay marriages, zion issues and others.
Will you please look and let your conscience do as the Lord leads you.
Be Blessed Pattie Farm
Some clarifications are necessary: we , as Americans may not know that in comparison to other nations we give only 0.001 per cent for charity, while most countries give at least 10 per cent. Some argue that our 0.001 per cent is much bigger because of its value and I think about the woman that dropped a denarius at the church collection. We have undoubtedly militarized the world with our unnecessary military stations, but what many of us forget to realize is that all governments are in the hands of Satan and when given power who would you rather be under? Islamic wars were part of the crusades and they are happening right now in Africa, tens of thousands slaughtered a month in the name of Allah, but conversely, more and more Muslins, particularly the youth is coming to Christianity. Greece will have a tremendous impact at the end times. Of course, any large nation and economically powerful will have an impact. Sunday law may be enforced. Tribulation? If we were to be raptured, before tribulation we wouldn’t have the scripture that says “but for the sake of the elect the time will be cut short”. Many aspects of the book of Revelation are still coded and as we progress to the end (I believe that we are in the beginning of the end). I personally am not sure who the restrainer is, we need time to have this unveiled . True, as a Nation we have caused much much harm to many other nations but I also believe that this harm is so much less significant than it would have been if the power would shift hands to almost any other nation. And for the ones that doubt, just remember that we put Taliban in place, before we removed them. We put Sadan Ussein in place before we removed him and so on and so forth, still we, I believe are a lesser evil in a fallen planet where corruption abounds and may be restraining a bigger evil such as the Empire predicted in Revelation.
I GOT IT : long before I read the article, in prayer and seeing the events (the strip of land may be voted to become a Palestinian state, which is what the UN wants and it is the US who is preventing it to happen so far) The restrainer was not meant as something spiritual, I’m convinced, it’s something political. It came so clear to me now, of course the US IS the restrainer. Did you ever see parts in the bible that you studied and couldn’t quite get but once you understood you went Ha,ha and how could I not have gotten that? While there are wonderful muslims all over the world and thousands upon thousands are becoming Christians, followers of the Muslin faith had been active to enforce the Nazi regimen and were employed by the Pope during the Crusades to destroy Christians
I can see how America might be used by G-d to do, or make some things happen. However, how can America claim any righteousness as it is the source of global porn, supporting global abortion (Moloch worship), and following after this world system through idol worship?
Was that in your dream too?
Hello Chrys, Leatherneck and all,
Another point to bring up is that, the verse would seem to infer that Paul knew who the “He” was that is doing the restraining. And the fact that he is writing to the Thessalonian’s and says to them, “The one who now holds it back will continue to do so till he is taken out of the way,” would also infer that the Thessalonians also knew who the restrainer was that Paul was speaking of. To further prove this point, in verse 5, Paul says, “Don’t you remember that when I was with you I used to tell you these things?” I don’t believe that the restrainer is America or any other nation. The restrainer is holding back two things, one, the full impact of lawlessness, that is, the full impact of sin and two, the man of lawlessness in order to keep him from being revealed until the proper time. Only the power of God directly could restrain lawlessness and the man of lawlessness. And Leatherneck is correct, how could America or any other nation, which are evil and full of wickedness, be used to hold back the full affect of sin and the man of sin? That would be like using gasoline to put out a fire!
2 ThessaLNIANS 2-2,3 SHOWS THAT THERE WILL COME A GREAT FALLING AWAY FROM CHRIST BECAUSE OF another spirit (allah) and another word (koran)..
The same allah is who exalts hmself above all gods including Jesus.. of verse 4..
This is the mystery of iniquity of verse 7…
The people who allowed the mystery of iniquity lie that allah is the same god as the Jewish-Christian god will be removed from the WAY OF CHRIST…verse 7..whereby allah and his seven demons take up residency in their temple.. Matthew 12-47,48,49,..
Then The allah god resides in the temple of these…The temple is their body….When satan indwells men they are made into sons of satan or sons of perdition…
Incidentally allah is the ancient moon god named SIN.. The men/man of SIN are those who he indwells…
THINK CHRISLAM AND UNDERSTAND…
Exodus 4:22 Israel is my son…my first born..
Israel under the new covenant is the Christians..not Jews. THERE IS NO PUNISHMENT FOR NOT SUPPORTING THE FALSE LAND OF ISRAEL…OR THE JEWS..they are not A part of the covenant with God anymore..if they ever were..
did anyone bother to check their credentials of their claim to be Gods chosen?
Israel…the Children of Israel..are the Christians..Galatians makes this quite clear…Hebrews speaks of the New Covenant mankind the old covenant obsolete…and dying..HEBREWS 8:13
.I wish Christians would read the bible for themselves guided by the Holy Spirit like we were instructed to do….instead of allowing all these false prophets to guide them..
Our churches were infiltrated at the turn of the century by Zionist Jew Rothschild and his Scofield Bible…teaching Christians to support Jews from Israel…or that there is a rapture of the Christians so they can avoid the Tribulation..THIS IS NOT SCRIPTURAL..These are the teachings of a man..not of God..
EXODUS 4:22 ISRAEL…IS JESUS CHRIST…..ONLY THOSE WHO FOLLOW HIM…ARE THE TRIBES OF ISRAEL ..THATS WHAT THE OLD TESTAMENT PROPHESIED…..AND WHAT THE NEW TESTAMENT TEACHES …
THE 144,000 will be Christians..not Jews…ONce Christ returns…the Jews will have lost all chances to follow the Messiah..and they and all who do not believe..will be separated..the Wheat from the Tares….Matthew 24.
.The chance to follow Jesus will be lost.. forever…Matthew 24 shows us this..and when Christ returns..there is an immediate separation of the Wheat from the Tares…This chapter has nothing to do with a pre trib rapture..Thats all made up by nefarious men..
There are not multiple paths to heaven…and by not witnessing the truth to the Jewish people…we are condemning them and all others who do not believe t o hell..
THE OLD TESTAMENT IS IN ITS ENTIRETY… is ABOUT THE COMING OF JESUS CHRIST…
THE PASSOVER SUPPER IS ALL ABOUT THE DEATH AND RESURRECTION OF JESUS CHRIST..
Galatians 3:12 Therefore, as Gods chosen people..holy and dearly loved……(Christians)
JESUS..IS ISRAEL…not these Jews from Israel today..They are no different than any other non believer today…The bible calls all these types of people..Anti Christs…II JOHN 7-11 AND this scripture shows us why its against Gods rules to be in an alliance with the False Land of Israel of today..
God never gave any land to his people if they were disobedient…THATS WHAT WE SEE all through the THE OLD TESTAMENT…and if these Jews do not follow Christ…they are Anti Christs…like all the others who do not believe..
The Jews do not have privileged status with God..Christians are Gods people now under the New Covenant..So much has NOT been taught in our churches that would prove this….on purpose as our seminaries were infiltrated by the Zionist Jews at the turn of the century..changing the meaning of scriptures to an unsuspecting trusting Christian people..
There are not two paths to heaven..one for Jews and one for the rest of us..Galatians tells us that there is no longer Jew nor Greek…etc..that were all one in Christ…
The only reason for the Tribes if Israel..was to validate that Jesus Christ was the Messiah by coming through their lineage ..That job is over…and a new covenant has been made..and the ‘fig tree’ of the OT Israelites was withered..never to produce fruit no more…and the COVENANT..THE PROMISES HAVE BEEN GIVEN TO THOSE WHO FOLLOW ISRAEL..WHO IS JESUS CHRIST ACCORDING TO SCRIPTURE….
All through the OT you can read where God was going to make a new covenant with his people..and include everyone..because the people of the first covenant were a disobedient people…
Jewish arrogance and pride cannot handle these facts..but this is what the Bible teaches us…Both the Torah and the rest of the OT …and the NT..
THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL TODAY..ARE ONLY THOSE WHO FOLLOW THE MESSIAH…THE SON OF GOD. WHO WAS PROPHESIED TO COME ALL THROUGH THE SCRIPTURES…
Gods son ISRAEL….WHO HAS EXISTED FROM THE VERY BEGINNING..
Hello American Mom and all,
I must whole heartedly disagree with your interpretation regarding Israel and that because Scripture does not support it. There are too many verses of Scripture to list in refutation of your claim and so I will simply list what Paul wrote regarding his people Israel:
I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I make much of my ministry in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches. If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!
I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The deliverer will come from Zion; he will turn godlessness away from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them when I take away their sins.” As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
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I believe that the Scriptures above speak for themselves. God is not done with the nation Israel, neither has he abandoned them, for there are still prophesies and promises to be fulfilled towards them.
The angel told Daniel that seventy ‘sevens’ are decreeded for you people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to rbing in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy. At the end of Sixty nine of those seventy ‘sevens’ (70 seven year periods) the Anointed One was cut off (Christ crucified) and that seventieth ‘seven’ is yet to be fulfilled. Once the church has been completed, then, Ibid, the resurrection and the catching of the church will take place ushering in the Day of the Lord and which also begins that last seven year period with Christ returning at the end to bring in the end of the age.
The nation Israel is literal Israel and the church, which are two individual groups. The woman clothed with sun, with the moon under her feet is the nation Israel as can be determined from Gen.27:9-10. The woman (Israel) gives birth to a male child (144,000). I dertermine this from the fact that the 144,000 are described as being all males, ergo, the male child. (Rev.14:4) The 144,000 are the first fruits out of Israel who will have come to the knowledge by the grace of God that Jesus is their Messiah. The woman (unbelieving Israel) will be cared for out in the desert for a time, times and a half a time (3 1/2 years) up until the return of Jesus.
The following promise to Israel is still in effect, so take heed:
“I will bless those who bless you, and whoever curses you I will curse; and all peoples on earth will be blessed through you.”
I would remind you that we are all saved by grace through faith and not by our choice, but by God’s grace and his mercy has he called us.
What you have written is horrible and so typical of the blindness and ignorance of Christianity that refuses to believe the book of Romans is in the Bible. Paul warns people who say what you say to be careful lest your branch be cut off (Romans 11) for Paul warns us all that blindness in part has happened until the fullness of the Gentiles come in. If you have not seen a tree that has branches grafted in I suggest you do for you will see an apple tree with its original fruit type and branches or say a grape vine and then you will see branches of other types of fruit of totally different color that retain their nature and apple color while the original root and tree retains its own. Neither changes its’ fruit which is why Paul uses this as an explanation to warn us of arrogance. You have learned this anti-semetic Replacement Theology from our ancestors and Apostate Catholic Paramour who taught this hatred to the world. We all choose to discard it and turn our backs on it in any form because the Scripture warns us to do so. It is evil at every level. Remember the Gifts and Calling of God are without Repentance, in other words What God has promised and made from the beginning shall not be cast off or changed. Shame on any who do so for they are His promises to Israel being fulfilled in our day still. Romans 11, Boast not against the branches But if you boast you bear not the root but the root you who were cut out of a wild olive tree, gentile. We are all warned to be careful indeed for the Lord it is that removes the veil from Israels’ eyes in His time while he filled the pages of the Gentiles to be saved. There is no room for arrogance of Anti-semetic Replacement Theology created in the bowels of Apostate Catholicism…it is vile and deadly to the soul!
Oh yea..one more thing..No where in the Bible..is there any mention of Arabs being a problem for the world..
But all through the bible..there is a false tribe of Judah…that will dominate the world economy..as they are doing right now today..
Read Revelation 18 and pay special attention to verse 24…
I have a feeling some on this site…are Jews paid to mislead the Christians …
The Muslim people are the least of your problems…
Its not Muslims that control your banking and economy
Its not Muslims that control your media
Its not Muslims that have destroyed the morality of the American people through movies and tv shows and videos..
Its not Muslims that have been created wars all over the world..SEE THE PNAC
Its not Muslims that have been committing genocide against all the peoples of the earth..GOOGLE OTHER HOLOCAUSTS..RUSSIA…ARMENIA.. THE GERMAN PEOPLES..
Its not Muslims that control many many nations governments all around the world..
You need to get your facts straight..
GODS RULES:
DO NOT SLANDER…….Musims didnt do 9/11..Israeli Mossad and CIA (created by the central Bank of London) seems to be the #1 suspect from what Im reading….
DO NOT MURDER …innocent Arab peoples of the middle east.. They have been invaded due to the Jewish lead PNAC..THE NEOCONS.
DO NOT COVET…Arabs wealth gold and oil..These wars are for corporation profits and oil…THEY MAKE WAR WITH IRAN..BECAUSE OF ITS GEOLOGICAL POSITION..AND THE CORPORATIONS WANTING TO BUILD A PIPELINE THROUGH IRAN…PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE…QUIT ACTING LIKE BLIND SHEEPLES..AND SEEK THE TRUTH LIKE THE BIBLE TELLS US TO DO..BEFORE YOU MAKE WAR WITH INNOCENT HUMAN BEINGS…ALL ARE GODS CREATURES…ALL ARE LOVED BY GOD THAT YOU SAY YOU FOLLOW..
INNOCENT PEOPLE ARE DYING…OUR TROOPS ARE BEING POISONED WITH DEPLETED URANIUM..
DO NOT STEAL…Arabs lands – Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan…We didnt spread democracy there..we spread misery..and enslavement…the UN controls those nations now..Afghanistan heroin poppy fields are being guarded by American troops…Im sure against their will…Our gov seems to be in the drug traffiking bussiness these days…GOOGLE CLINTON MENA, ARK. DRUGS……OR FAST AND FURIOUS ARMS DEALS…there are so many more..CIA drug traffiking..
DO NOT WORSHIP OTHER IDOLS…the fact that Christians …Americans were willing to break the first 4 commandments of God that I listed…that means that they basically worship the FALSE IDOLS….the Jews and this False land of Israel..and have no respect for God.. his laws..nor his ways…
American Mom
I do not think you understand the bible well enough to understand God’s relationship with Israel.
It sounds like you never read the bible, from your comments.
He never breaks a covenant, even though man does, and his covenant with Israel is an everlasting one.
Jesus will return specifically at Armageddon to rescue Israel from its savage enemies.
The bible has thousands of pages indicating that Arabs are problem for Israel and the entire world.
Not that all Arabs are a problem, but the arab nations as a whole are.
The Egyptians, babylonians and assyrians all put Israel in slavery. They were fierce and savage slaveowners.
Today, they continue the slave trade with blacks in africa, which is also how blacks were sold into slavery back in the colonial times.
Muslims persecute Christians around the world, and have done so for centuries. I get a bulletin of persecution on a frequent basis, outlining the headlines from Muslim countries where christians are persecuted.
they have enslaved entire countries before, oppressing the people and forcing conversions under threat of death. Right now, they are trying to take over Europe, demanding their rights supercede the rights of others in the countries.
Muslims admitted to committing 911, so it is too late to blame the Jews for that. They celebrated in the streets, and this was caught on camera.
THere are terror cells all over the USA, and they are made of Muslims, not Jews.
So you are seriously deluded, or you are Muslim, trying to slander the Jews.
I hope God deals with you and opens the truth to you.
Israel helps others, not harms them
I see no Arab global domination plan….but I do see a Talmudic Jew global domination plan…No Arabs have banks in all countries..but Jews do…No Arabs have taken over American politics..but Jews have….I see no Arabs taking over world media..but I do see Jews doing this…No Arabs have attacked Americans on American soil..but NEOCON Jews have…9/11…
youtube Architects for 9/11 truth..
LEARN THE TRUTH SO AMERICAN CAN BE SET FREE FROM JEWISH RULE.
Israel is Jesus Christ…Exodus 4:22..ISRAEL IS MY SON..MY FIRST BORN..That desert in Palestine. is not Israel..The Land of Israel will not come until the coming of Christ..thats what the Bible says..
AntiChrist Men tell you that this apostate land of Israel is of God. in order to trick the Christians into supporting their wars for global domination using the blood of our people..and our tax dollars..THIS IS THE BIGGEST HOAX IN ALL OF TIME!!a
GOD HAS NEVER GIVEN ANY LAND TO A DISOBEDIENT PEOPLE…Talmudic Jews are not obedient toGod..Instead..they are mostly Athiests….Ben Gurioni the first Prime minister was a Buddhist..and GOlda Meir and Shimon Peres were both raised in athist communist Jewish Kibbutzs’s
When a person rents their house out to another person..they ask fo9r credentials….why have we given our entire country over to impostors?
Scripture will show you that Jews are NOT the CHOSEN PEOPLE OF GOD UNDER THE NEW COVENANT…WHICH MADE THE OLD COVENANT OBSOLETE…Christians are the CHOSEN PEOPLE OF GOD UNDER THE NEW COVENANT.
Colossians 3:12
That the Old Covenant is NO LONGER IN EFFECT..
HEBREWS 8:13
Why are our church’s not teaching this???
see how we have been lied to for decades now…If only we would read our bibles..this would have never happened..but instead..we trusted misguided men…God told us not to do that..
.Your reading the scriptures wrong..you were programmed that way..all of us were..by the villians who perverted our Christian seminaries with Zionist Rothschilds Scofield Bible that was used to create this Anti Christ Israel of today…Just like they have perverted our public school systems..they have perverted our Christian seminaries…This is why God took away the Priest System..and gave us the Holy Spirit..
Israel is Christ….And the Children of Israel are the Christians….No where in scripture..does it say Jews were Israel…no where.
Do you really understand what the Babylon Talmud actually teaches? You would not like it if you knew..Talmudic Judaism is a cult…It was in the days of Jesus…THE TEACHINGS OF THE ELDERS…and its a cult today…THE BABYLON TALMUD..
PRAY FOR DISCERNMENT…Discernment comes from reading the bible..its the only way to know truth…from lies..
American Mom,
It is obvious that you did not read anything that I listed regarding what Paul had to say regarding his people Isreal “Do not boast against the original olive branches” for you stand by faith and not by anything that you have or could have done. You did not choose God, but he chose you. AS it is written, “Those who bless you, I will bless and those who curse you, I will curse.” And right now you are guilty of cursing them. There are prophesies in the old testament that have yet to be fulfilled for the nation Israel. Who are you to speak against those to whom God has chosen. Jesus has been building his church and once the church period is over, then God will turn his attention back to Israel and the world and fulfill those prophecies. You should be careful of what you say, for it is God who forknew us, who predestined us, who called, who justified and glorified us.
You speak as though you are responsible for your own salvation. Take heed, confess and repent, for you are speaking against God’s people Isreal.
God’ covenants are everlasting. You can break them but he won’t.
Have you ever read the Talmud?
I have. You are deceived as to the contents.
How are things at Storm Front?
mine or Israels?
American Mom’s hang out. It’s a web site with those views.
All the lands of Islam today were stolen by Muslims, the Mohammedan scourge slaughtered, raped and violated the Holy land of the Jews and all the lands of the Bible Byzantine Empireand more for 1400 years and they have slaughtered 400 million in India alone in their attempt to Islamize India…they have not succeeded yet and Islam slaughtered and stole the Cradle of Judaaism and the Cradle of Christianity and half of Africa, it is almost endless and their slaughtered and enslaved and forced conversions in 1400 years is literally in the more than hundreds of millions. Your knowledge of the truth and facts is pitifully empty because they have slaughtered more than those before them! Muslims have stolen everything they have and they have no creative forces in their vile religion except the destruction of all around them for they are satanically inspired and created with the False Prophet at their head and with Satanic forces as their engine. You are blinded by ignorance and you should know that these forces are about to be destroyed by the hand of G-d when they come up against the Lords’ Beloved Israel He shall leave only one sixth of them all alive because it is time they be judged for the terrible violences they have committed on the earth that has not yet been judged. These are the days of Ezekiel 38 and 39 because Ezekiel 37 has already occurred and He has gathered Israel from the four cxorners of the earth and He has brought all the bones together and put His Spirit in them to use them as a sharp new Threshing instrument. Open your eyes and heart to the truth for you have been blinded by the hate Apostosy of Christendoms mother Papal Rome 1500 years old!
I read my Bible most every day.I can see that you are repeating the rhetoric we have been taught most all our lives….non truths DESIGNED to trick the American people into supporting the building of the Anti Christ System being built in Israel..and a global domination plan…
No where in the bible..does it speak of Arabs dominating the world..but it does speak of those who murdered the prophets and the Saints…..Revelation 18:24 …
And we know that by Revelation 18 that Jerusalem in the end times..is the haunt of the most vile demons..and that its destroyed..and those who lived there were the Merchants..
BY THEIR WORKS YE SHALL KNOW THEM….and those who control Israel today..do not worship nor follow Yahweh God…but are Merchants ..BankSters…Moneychangers…Greedmongers ….and it is these NEOCONS who are destroying American from within…not Arabs…
ROMANS 9: 6 Not all of Israel is Israel…because they are the seed of Abraham are they all children ((Esau was of the seed of Abraham too))BUT in Isaac shall the seed be called…That is…They which are the CHILDREN OF THE FLESH, THESE ARE NOT THE CHILDREN OF GOD. ((EDOMITES))).but the children of the promise are counted for the seed…(((THE SONS OF JACOB)).
((13)) As it is written, Jacob have I loved..but Esau have I hated..
Read about the King of Judah..John Hyracanus as see how Edom was circumcised into the Tribe of Judah..thus polluting the lineage of the Tribe of Judah…
the lineage of the Israelite was determined by the father….
In the Jewish tradition..it is determined by the mother..
god never changed this tradition of the Israelite… people.
Satan mirrors things of God..
.I think it is the Edomites, children of the flesh..not spiritual, those that killed the Prophets and the saints (Reve 18:24) that control apostate Land of Israel today….BY THEIR WORKS..its apparent they are not spiritual people..All they want to do is make war with the nations of the world..and now ..they are about to begin another war..
THe NEOCON Jews, Wolfowitz..Feith…Perle…Kagan..started PNAC..they said they needed another Pearle Harbor like incident. to make war with Iraq….one year later..came 9/11..You really think this wasnt planned?
They have been plotting to make war with Iran for decades now..It looks like they are going to get their wish..and more of our young men will be destroyed ..thus destroying our own population…and eventually bankrupting us..which is what they want to happen..so they can force us into enslavement..and poverty..
The media is owned by the Jews..so you never get to know the truth about anything they do..
Also..if you read history…in Armenia…and Russia..and many other nations…it has been these Jews who have murdered the Saints..the Christians..FULFILLING REVELATION 18:24….REad about the Young Turks in Armenia…..and the genocide of the Christian Armenians…..and in Russia..the Jewish Bolsheviks murdered 90 million people .. most all the Christians…REVELATION 18:24..THOSE THAT MURDERED THE PROPHETS AND SAINTS..
.The Babylon Talmud is far from being a Holy Book..not in the sense of Gods style of what is Holy…Do some research and you will see..its basically mysticism..and their Jewish Kaballah is New Age religion..
The Karaites who follow ONLY the Torah..I would consider to be the Israelites, descendents of Jacob…Spiritual people… who have not found Christ yet..
THIS IS THE GRAND DELUSION THE BIBLE SPOKE OF…and our churches were infiltrated with false doctrines so the New World Order would be supported by the Christians…Satans way of thumbing his nose at Our Father in Heaven..
Scripture does not support your views..
Israel is Jesus Christ..and the land promised..was promised to him…
Galatians shows us that all who follow Christ..ISRAEL..are heirs to the promises made to Abraham..and that all of us who follow Christ…ARE THE SEED OF ABRAHAM..THE SPIRITUAL SEED….
Weve been brainwashed into false doctrines all our lives to worship the Jews…actually..this has only really gotten to be populare in these last few decades……its going to take some time for many to begin to see the truth..and spiritual discernment can only come from reading the Bible..ALOT.
I started to see the truth when I started to read my Bible alone…NO OUTSIDE INFO…and was serious about seeking God and inviting HIM into my life. while suffering such tragedy…
.Ive been a ‘flesh’ Christian most my life..but now..I am a ‘spiritual’ Christian…I know Ive changed…I feel it..and God guides my life..and definitely makes my paths straight..He has increased my business…and made my life peaceful…I cannot imagine life without him ever again..I know I could never backslide again..ever..
I dont mean to offend anyone..I just see the Bible this way..
I think its worse to let the Jews think they are automatically going to Heaven…BECAUSE If they wait till Messiah comes..it will be too late for them….they will be separated as Tares as in Matthew 24…and doomed forever…..and they would miss out of eternal life..as I dont see that there is one way to Heaven for Jews..and another for Christians..the bible just does not teach this..
Galatians teaches us that were all one…there is no more Jew..Greek…Gentile..etc…were all one in Christ…who is ISRAEL.and ALL HEIRS TO THE PROMISES MADE TO ABRAHAM…
EXODUS 4:22..ISRAEL IS MY SON..MY FIRSTBORN..
HEBREWS 8:13 By calling this covenant ‘new’ he has MADE THE FIRST ONE OBSOLETE AND WHAT IS OBSOLETE AND AGING WILL SOON DISAPPEAR…
Thats pretty clear that the Old Covenant is over…an a new Covenant between God and man has begun..
COLOSSIANS 3:12..Therfore, as GODS CHOSEN PEOPLE…(CHRISTIANS) holy and dearly loved……
scriptures shows us that it is the Christians under the New Covenant..THAT ARE NOW GODS CHOSEN PEOPLE…HE SAID SO..YOU CANNOT SAY ANY DIFFERENT IF YOU BELIEVE THE BIBLE IS GODS WORD..
GOD bless…
CHECK THIS GUY OUT…HES of Jewish descent…He is a Christian Pastor…ONE OF THE BEST PASTORS IVE EVER SEEN…
ISRAEL DELUSIONS..PASTOR STEVEN WOHLBERG..
tHIS IS PART THREE..FIND PART ONE AND START OVER..i THINK YOU WILL GREATLY ENJOY THIS..
why do you listen to man, instead of God?
you are brainwashed, but this you have chosen
What horrible things you say and teach and you are in great danger for these are all lies and deceits of the enemy meant to blind you. Your hatred of our root Israel to which I am grafted on is a sign of the evil influences and from where they come from. That very hatred is also in Islam who hates Jews and Christians and the Righteous and the whore, that rides Islam today also has hated the Jews and the Righteous for these 1500 years and you merely repeat the same hatred of Satan from his first turning away. This is so sad to see someone like you preaching your hatred and lies. But as Marianne has said you have chosed evil instead of good, lies instead of truth and it can only be your choice to turn away from your darkness and to the light of His truth and scriptures.
One More thing….Israel is the Olive tree who has borne to us the oracles of God the wonderful OLD and NEW Testaments given freely to mankind and Gentiles through Christ are merely wild olive branches grafted onto the true Branch Israel and even Christ is the Branch that made this possible. Romans 11 etc. Now you think your attempt at stealing a root of Israel or that Gentile saved can produce their own root against scripture? No! YOu are very lost because of blindness, wanton ignorance and hate and I pray your eyes may see the light and the real Yeshua, Christ of Paul in Romans 11 directs us all to.
One more thing..
Jesus is Israel..Christians are the Children of Israel..and the true heirs to the promises made to Abraham..according to Galatians..
Trying to steal away the inheritance…are those of todays Isreal..
Matthew 21:18…The fig Tree is withered..and will produce fruit no more..that covenant is ended..and dead.
Matthew 21:33…THE PARABLE OF THE TENANTS…
Where the carcass is ..the vultures will gather….The old covenant is dead…Hebrews 8:13 tells us this is true..Beware of those who say they are of Judah..but are not..as they do lie.
IS ISRAEL OF PALESTINE THE ISRAEL OF THE BIBLE?
IF THE TRUTH IS TRULY IMPORTANT TO YOU..LET THE SCRIPTURES SPEAK..AND SEE WHAT THIS JEWISH PASTOR HAS TO SAY ABOUT WHO ISRAEL IS..
YOUTUBE THE ISRAEL DELUSION -STEVE WOHLBERG -WHITE HORSE PRODUCTIONS.
OUR RELIGION HAS BEEN JUDAIZED…JUST AS THE HEBREW RELIGION WAS BY THESE SAME PEOPLE IN THE DAYS OF JESUS…NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN…..THE MORE THINGS CHANGE…THE MORE THEY REMAIN THE SAME..
RABBI STEPHEN WISE…TOLD US THAT WHEN JUDAH CAME BACK FROM BABYLON..THAT WAS THE END OF HEBREWISM..AND THE BEGINNING OF JUDAISM…(A CULT RELIGION..)
RABBI STEPHEN WISE ALSO TOLD US…THAT NEVER HAS AN ANCIENT ISRAELITE BEEN A JEW…NOR A JEW AND ISRAELITE….
MANY THINGS OF THIS NATURE ARE ARE NOTED IN THE ENCYCLOPEDIA JUDAICA…INCLUDING THE FACT THAT jEWS OF TODAY..ARE EDOM…The Jews themselves will tell you this..be we have been so brainwashed we cannot seem to break out of this mental programming..
PLEASE GOOGLE “THE GULLIBLE MIND EXPLAINED” AND YOU WILL see that has happened to us in America…Its a spiritual deception..and the Bible said it would happen..because those who did it..have been doing this for centuries..NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN…
SCRIPTUES SHOWS US THIS WHEN JESUS SPOKE ABOUT BEING IN CAPTIVITY IN EGYPT..AND these Jews said they were never in captivity..Edom was never in captivity..LIKE Israel was…Even though Abraham was still their father..they are NOT of the lineage of Jacob of whom is the bloodline God made his covenant with…
EZEKIEL 36:5 This is what theSovereign Lords says: In my burning zeal I have spoken against the rest of the nations and AGAINST ALL EDOM FOR WITH GLEE AND WITH MALICE IN THEIR HEARTS THEY MADE MY LAND THEIR OWN POSSESSION SO THAT THEY MIGHT PLUNDER ITS PASTURELAND…
Edom..Talmmudic Jews have plundered the Land of SPIRITUAL Israel…the Christian religion…though the Scofield Bible..desigend to make you think you have to basically worship the Jews..and allow them to build their Global Government…for fear of reprisal from God the Father..which is all poppycock..not true..lies ..
TITUS WARNS US …PAY NO ATTENTION TO JEWISH MYTHS…FABLES…LIES..
Jesus is Israel..Christians are the Children of Israel..and the true heirs to the promises made to Abraham..according to Galatians..
Trying to steal away the inheritance…are those of todays Isreal..
Matthew 21:18…The fig Tree is withered..and will produce fruit no more..that covenant is ended..and dead.
Matthew 21:33…THE PARABLE OF THE TENANTS…
Where the carcass is ..the vultures will gather….The old covenant is dead…Hebrews 8:13 tells us this is true..
Beware of those who say they are of Judah..but are not..as they do lie..but are a Synagogue of Satan..Revelation 18..Jerusalem has become the haunt of the most vile of devils…Revelation 18:24..those who murdered the prophets and martyred the saints…..((( MARTYRING OF THE CHRISTIANS….Armenia., THE YOUNG TURK JEWS……Russia THE BOLSHEVIK JEWS…….Germany….THE TRUTH ABOUT THAT WAR IS BEGINNING TO BE KNOWN…..America is next…Muslims havent taken over our gov..the Neocon tALMUDIC jEWS have..and they make war with the entire world..,..using Ameircan blood and money…thus getting rid of our Christian youth..the flower of America…and looting our wealth…as the money changers have always done..)))
you will not know the truth until you get all this anti-semitic propaganda out of your head.
if God forms a covenant with anyone, it never dies. you do not understand scripture. neither does this wholburg fellow
individual sinners are one issue.
The land of Israel is a completely seperate issue.
To associate geographic Israel with the Revelation 18 destruction is a very foolish insult against the eternal plans of the Holy Lord God Almighty. May He who sets on the throne in heaven have mercy on you and forgive your blaspheme against his Jerusalem, the eternal city of peace. Bloodshed passes year after year for yet a little while longer, but the covenant of the Most Holy for that place will NEVER be removed. But if you decide to harden your heart and refuse to repent, may the curse of Rev22:18,19 befall you for substituting the name Babylon for Jerusalem.
I think she is a muslim, pretending to be a christian.
American Mom,
Whatever sect an Israelite belongs to will not matter, for according to Daniel, that ruler, the man of lawlessness is going to make a covenent with Israel for that last seven year period. At the middle of that seven, he is going to break his covenant and set up that abomination in the holy place within the temple, which is what causes the desolation of Jerusalem spoken of in Dan.9:27, Mt.24:15 and Rev.12:6,14-16. During that time, God will seal the 144,000, those first fruits out of Israel, of whom no lie will be found in their mouths and they will have not defiled themselves with woman (sexual immorality) and will by the grace of God come to the knowledge that Jesus is in fact their Messiah. The woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, wearing a crown of twelve stars on her head (Unbelieving Israel) will be cared for out in the desert by God for that last 3 1/2 years up until Christ returns. Therefore, whoever these Israelites are or what sect they belong to, God is going to have place prepared for them in the desert where they will be cared for until the Lord returns.
“Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyone recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the Genitles to make Israel envious. But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the Gentiles, how much greater riches will their fullness bring!”
Did Jesus not say that through him all manner of sins and blashpemy shall be forgiven. And what if God in his grace and mercy opened the eyes of Israel so that they could see that Jesus is in fact their Messiah. After all, the only reason that we know the truth is because God allowed us to see and understand. Yet, here you are speaking against God’s people as though you were something special. Do you think that you leaned the truth by your own efforts? No, God allows us to know the truth, for his word says: No man comes to the Son except the Father draws him. So, how is it that you act as though you were responsible for your own salvation? I would advise you to repent of this stand that you have taken against Israel, confess and ask for forgiveness. For what if God hardened your heart? You would have no choice in the matter, neither would you care. And if you don’t think that God can harden hearts, I would remind of the very reason that he raised up pharoah. You would do good to pray for all of Israel, that their eyes and ears would be opened and that they would no longer stumble over the stumbling block.
Those who hate Christ hate G-d the Father.
Those who follow Muhammad worhip a false moon god, and follow a mad man who raped, and murdered.
The end times prophecies you are following…the ones I USED to follow as well…were conjured up by the Jesuits of which many Jews were a part of… during the Protestant Reformation…and brought to life again by the Left Behind people..One who was Jewish….The Left Behind theories…have given you this myth of createing a Jewish nation…and that Jews of today..non believers…Anti Christs..are somehow the chosen of God..when in the Bible…we are told that it is the Christians who are now the Chosen ones…whether Jew or Gentile..Colossians 3:12…
And as far as being cursed for not worshipping the Jews…thats all poppycock too…proven so by only using Gods word..
Read Galatians 3….do you read you bible?
You have been brainwashed for decades to believe what you do..Me too..but it never made sense to me…as I would read my bible..and could never see what we were being told..in the bible…I knew it was not true..
The regathering of Israel..is the regathering of Christs saints from the four corners of the earth at the seventh trump…ISRAEL today..are those who follow Christ..not non believing Jews….The land promised is a new land not of this earth..THE NEW JERUSALEM….not some desert land in Palestine…God according to OT scriptures.. has NEVER EVER given any land to non believers…
According to Hebrews 8:13…the OT covenant is dead….and this was foretold all through the OT scriptures…and today..a new covenant has been made between God and his creation man..
American Mom said:
“You have been brainwashed for decades to believe what you do..Me too..but it never made sense to me…as I would read my bible..and could never see what we were being told..in the bible…I knew it was not true.. ”
Jesus said:
“Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words will never pass away.”
I have been brainwashed by no one. All that I have learned in the last 40 years is from personal study. This collection of books known as the bible must be correct or the verse above spoken by Jesus would have no meaning. You need to go back and read Romans 9 Thru 11 regarding what Paul had to say about Israel. What part of the Scriptures below did you not understand?
“I want you to understand this mystery, dear brothers and sisters, so that you will not feel proud about yourselves. Some of the people of Israel have hard hearts, but this will last only until the full number of Gentiles comes to Christ. And so all Israel will be saved. As the Scriptures say,
“The one who rescues will come from Jerusalem,
and he will turn Israeli away from ungodliness.
27And this is my covenant with them,
that I will take away their sins.”
Many of the people of Israel are now enemies of the Good News, and this benefits you Gentiles. Yet they are still the people he loves because he chose their ancestors Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. For God’s gifts and his call can never be withdrawn. Once, you Gentiles were rebels against God, but when the people of Israel rebelled against him, God was merciful to you instead. Now they are the rebels, and God’s mercy has come to you so that they, too, will share in God’s mercy. For God has imprisoned everyone in disobedience so he could have mercy on everyone.
I’m afraid that it is you who has been deceived and now you are boasting against the original branches, Israel.
You are so blind American mom and I hate to use the term for you speak evil of that which is good and that which has conducted us all to the way of Salvation, and everyone here has been most gracious to you for speaking such evil. I have heard many like you and I tell you it is a fearful thing to speak such evil of His chosen who gave us the beautiful Bible without which we would have been destroyed long ago for they bear the Promises of God to us all but His Bearers who obediently wrote these Beloved and Frightening Words for Mankind were and are the JEWS, Israel whom He has gathered even as you say He should not. He will fulfil every jot and Tittle He wrote and irregardles of people like you that destroy them or change them you shall see Him complete all that He has started in Israel. My husband and I and others we know are those who have carried on our shoulders, the Jews and brought them back, helped with the gathering and still do, Aliyah and planted many trees for His chldren in Israel and feed them in Israel until they have all their lands restored to them and they have peace as is promised after Gods Judgement and Wrath is poured out upon the Gentile Nations, those that hate His children, and not even you may undo this last end of such hatred as yours that you preach! Take care for you preach great evil!
I am not Anti Semitic…the pastor in the video I gave to you earlier..is my mentor…a Christian Jew….so…anti semitic does not apply here..I just dont participate in idol Jew worship as you do..Its not scriptural to do so…and this Israel of today…according to scripture…is the haunt of devils…Revelation 18…You need to start reading your bible for yourself..and shake off the Left Behind brainwashing you have received..
The AntiChrist is not a man…but a system..of religion…TWO HORNS LIKE A LAMB…telling us that the antichrist will look like Christianity..but it is not…Thats where you are today…You are following Anti Christ..
The Temple is not in Jerusalem..but in the New Jerusalem that comes down from heaven..
The land of Israel..is THE NEW JERUSALEM that comes down from heaven..not an earthly land..
There is no 7 year tribulation…The bible says it will be as in the days of Noah…people will be eating and drinking…marrying and giving in marriage…just another day…
The stopping of the sacrifice in the Temple..is not and end times prophecy…but a prophecy of when Christ was crucified..and the Temple curtain was torn from top to bottom..ending the need for animal sacrifice…That who part in Daniel is about Christ..not an Anti Christ..
These are the deceptions feed to the Christian people by the devil…and you are right smack in the middle of the Harlot Religion…believing the lies…sorry to say..
I dont hate Jews…I see the lies..and by following those lies…many Jews will die in their sins..by telling them they are the chosen ones..which they are not under the New Covenant…There is not two ways to heaven..one for Jews..one for Christians…THATS A LIE STRAIGHT FROM HELL…Fear not those who can harm your flesh..but those who can steal your soul….
I dont hate you either…I want you to find the truth…like I have…We have been grossly lied to through the JEsuit teachings…the Harlot of BAbylon..the false religion..
I think the Pharisees are the Catholic Church…They have taken out the diety of Christ in their Vatican bibles….and have hidden from the people…the sacrifice of the blood…and many other things…They have cut out passages out of their bibles….
they have taken the 10 commandments..and changed them..Compare it some time…
The Left Behind beliefs…where Jews have come back to their homeland…and will build a temple…is a trick..a lie from Satan..so you will support wars for Israel…the athiests who have a global domination plan..along with many other entities..Its not JUST the Jews..but they do have an agenda given to them through their Babylon Talmud..
Yes…Ive read alot of it…Its alll about loving each other..but they are only talking about each other…other Jews..not the gentiles if you will read closer…..Its all about enriching the Jews..and impoverishing the gentiles..They call us animals..beasts..insects…and have no respect for the rest of humanity…I have read alot about Jewish history this last century..They have been responsible for many genocides..many holocausts against the Christians….but its never mentioned because the Jews control the media…The Babylon Talmud .Is not a book of God…but a book of a religious cult…a cult that JEsus warned us about …THE TEACHINGS OF THE ELDERS..
This is history my friend…and history cannot be denied in exchange for fairy tails of Jewish oppression..Its not true…They take over nations governments…media..etc..and thats when they are attacked…because they impoverish the people of the host land that they dwell..
Ive gone to church all my life…Only this last couple decades have I began to hear all this Jew worship stuff..and this apostate land of Israel as the promised land..If that were true…God would have gave people America instead..Its a desert over there…far from the land of milk and honey..lol….but the truth is…the PROMISED LAND IS NOT A LAND ON THE PLANET EARTH..BUT AN EARTHLY KINGDOM…CHRISTS KINGDOM…THE NEW JERUSALEM THAT COMES OUT OF HEAVEN…
I used to think like you do…but I could never get those myths to line up with scripture…TITUS 1 BEWARE OF JEWISH MYTHS.. The Jews were also Jesuits.Left Behind came from the Jesuits at the Protestant Reformation trying to lure people back to the Catholic Church…and alot of the lies..line up with Talmudic teachings…not Christian ones..
Its not Anti Semitic to tell the truth..and I have known for a long time that the New Covenant made the Old Covenant dead..and I have been greatly blessed for telling the truth…I have NOT been cursed at all…Galatians 3 will PROVE to you…that what you said..is not true…not even one bit…You are following false doctrine..lies from Lucifer..The Harlot Religion…TWO HORNS LIKE A Lamb…SEEMING like Christ…but not Christ at all..
ANTICHRIST DELUSIONS..
Scripture has been grossly mis interpreted …its a trick of the devil..to get us to follow the global gov…the building of the Beast System..
Its not going to be a scarey as the Left Behind theory tells us…LEft Behind admits they are merely a novel..not truth…but people are still following this ..and controlled media is pushing it….
The end will be like any other day….except we believers will know the times…the times will be evil as in the days of Noah…but to the unsaved..it will be like a thief in the night…one minute they are here..the next they are taken away Matthew 24…the separation of the wheat and the tares…
Please watch this fine Jewish Christian pastor…He says that these times will go down in history..as a time when prophecy has been the most misinterpreted…Keep in mind…the rapture…regathering of earthly Israel..and Jews as the chosen ones..even though they arr disobedient to God…is all teachings of the Jesuits..revived…keeping in mind..many Jesuits were Jews…This teaching profits them..FOLLOW THE MONEY..
The Jews who follow the Babylon Talmud..the Kaballah, Jewish Mysticism…think they are to become their own savior..their own God..
ANTICHRIST DELUSIONS..
You have been programmed for decades through media…and false doctrines… to attack people like me who follow God and his Bible in truth…and protect those who follow false doctrines…Lucifer is quite a cleaver fellow..Thus the Harlot of BAbylon and the falling away from the truth…
Scripture has been grossly mis interpreted …its a trick of the devil..to get us to follow the global gov…the building of the Beast System..
Its not going to be a scarey as the Left Behind theory tells us…LEft Behind admits they are merely a novel..not truth…but people are still following this ..and controlled media is pushing it….
The end will be like any other day….except we believers will know the times…the times will be evil as in the days of Noah…but to the unsaved..it will be like a thief in the night…one minute they are here..the next they are taken away Matthew 24…the separation of the wheat and the tares…
Please watch this fine Jewish Christian pastor…He says that these times will go down in history..as a time when prophecy has been the most misinterpreted…Keep in mind…the rapture…regathering of earthly Israel..and Jews as the chosen ones..even though they are disobedient to God…is all teachings of the Jesuits..revived…keeping in mind..many Jesuits were Jews…This teaching profits them..FOLLOW THE MONEY..
The atheist Talmudic Jews who follow the Babylon Talmud..the Kaballah, Jewish Mysticism…think they are to become their own savior..their own God..and that only they are capable to rule the world..They think that they are to control an earthly kingdom..the Kingdom God gave to Lucifer…hint…..You seem to have an attitude that no Jew can do any wrong..that they all just love God to pieces…NOthing could be further from the truth….They tell us that our Christ is in a vat of human excrement burning in hell…and they call the Creator a liar..as they say Mary was a whore..not a virgin…We are told in II John 7-11 that were not to associate with anyone who preaches a different Christ..that they are considered an Anti Christ…Therefore..Christian America should not support the Jews in Israel..unless they are Christians..who today..are the chosen ones according to scripture…..Colossians 3:12
Remember…the scripture tells us THAT NOT ALL OF ISREAL..ARE ISRAEL..Christ told us the Talmdic Jews (teachings of the Elders))are sons of Cain…
The Torah Jews..are waiting for the Messiah to come from heaven…..
The Talmud is not presented in its entirety to the common man….they hide its contents due to its racist nature..and they know it would infuriate the massses against them..but their party is over..The people are learning the truth about Talmudic Judaism..
JEWS WHO ARE NOT THE TRUE JEWS….are at work here….Genesis 3:15..Sons of Cain..Kennites…Edomites…Hittites ..Canaanites…whom God said will never more exist when Christ returns..THE BAD FIGS of Jeremiah 24.
The bible warns us over and over….and the Jesuit teachings through the Left Behind thinking..is working against what the bible tells us..
Im not Muslim…Im an American Mom..Ive been Christian all my life…and I love God..and read his Word most every day…as instructed to do..
I knew something was wrong in the teachings in the church, these Left Behind theories…..I call it Jew Worship..which is idol worship..I could not see those things in the bible…one being this Pre Trib rapture..nor would I any longer attend any church that taught such lies.
Noah. was protected by God through the Ark…
.Meshach, Shadrach, and Abendigo in the fire..Scriptures show us Christ was there with them..
Daniel in the lions den…God protected him..
No where in scripture has God taken away his people..but instead..he is there with them..helping them GO THROUGH IT….THERE IS NO PRE TRIB RAPTURE..ITS JUST NOT SCRIPTURAL.
God tells us that in the end times..he will protect us from that terrible day…the 7 bowls of wrath poured out on UNBELIEVING mankind..not Christians. FOR we are protected by the Word of God in our minds…like the Israelites were protected by the BLOOD OF THE LAMB over their doorsteps…He will take us through it…not out of it..
He also tells us that if we take the MARK OF THE BEAST…we will share in the plagues..
COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE…COME OUT OF MYSTERY BABYLON…false religion…THE TWO HORNS LOOKING LIKE A LAMB…Fake Christianity…The Harlot religion..THE GRAND DELUSION which is happened today…Our Seminaries have been infiltrated…and perverted with false doctrines….preaching a different Jesus..
What you believe..is not scriptural..You have been programmed by TV and misguided men preaching in churches…to believe what you do..I was too…Many I have shown this stuff to..feel free now..as they too sensed in their spirit..that those teachings made no sense…
Those teachings elevated the non believing Jews over the Christians..Churches putting way to much time teaching about apostate Israel..and the Jews..instead of Christ..That never felt right to me…AND THESE TEACHINGS ARE NEW……only being taught the last 20 or so years..IN OUR CHURCHES..AND PUSHED HARD BY THE JEWISH CONTROLLED MEDIA…and those media preachers who have damaged the Christian church greatly..
Speaking in tongues on TV? Did not God tell us to pray in a closet? TV preachers acting like they can see things none of us can? Didnt God warn against those who pray in public with long prayers…making a scene? TV preachers are not biblical..and have done great damage to Christs Church..leading many astray through false doctrines..Making us look like fools to the unsaved..
I have witnessed to many atheists..and that is one of their biggest gripes..how fake those guys look…and how all they want is money..Those TV preachers will have to answer one day for what they have done to Christianity..
DIDNT THE LORD TELL US TO BE IN THE WORLD..BUT NOT OF THE WORLD???….Television is the biggest tool of MASS DECEPTION ON THE PLANET..MUCH WORSE THAN A NUKE..AS IT KILLS THE SOULS OF MANY AROUND THE PLANET.. WITH LITTLE EFFORT..
FEAR NOT THOSE WHO CAN HARM YOUR FLESH..BUT THE ONE THAT CAN CAN STEAL YOUR SOUL.
.TV IS A WORLDLY TOOL…A TROJAN HOUSE THAT HAS ACCESS RIGHT INTO YOUR LIVING ROOM..INTO THE MINDS OF YOUR INNOCENT CHILDREN…BRAINWASHING THEM..LIKE HAS HAPPENED TO YOU..Didnt II Peter tell us not to allow Anti Christ into our homes? Why did he tell us not to allow AntiChrists into our homes..not to associate with them? Because …that is how the HARLOT OF BABYLON has been so successful..THE GRAND DELUSION has come..
Scripturally, The only time Christ returns..is at the 7th trump…and that is when we will be taken and given our new bodies…our eternal bodies..not in a pre trib rapture..
The Anti Christ is not some powerful man..but a spiritual entity..MANY OF THEM…Christ said that there were many Antichrists that have gone out..and that they were among them…Christ and his disciples…within the new born Christian Church..THATS WHAT THE WORD OF GOD SAYS..
your pastor is wrong.
god does not abandon his covenants.
modern Israel is not doing anything wrong, and should not be under condemnation.
it will eventually meet its Messiah.
Your right..God did not abandon his covenant…All through the OT were taught that God would make a new covenant with mankind…He would put his word into their minds and their hearts…
Do you not know about those prophecies? How come you ignore what God has foretold to you?
If a Jew does not come to Christ before his return..he is doomed to eternal damnation..like all the other humans on the planet…A non believing Jew is no different than any other heathen…
Israel is Christ..EXODUS 4:22 ISRAEL IS MY SON..MY FIRST BORN….the Children of Israel under the New Covenant are Christians…
The Land of the Promise is not an earthly one..but the NEW JERUSALEM that comes down from heaven..
The TEMPLE is in the hearts of those who follow Christ…not in a desert land in Palestine…all that you have been taught..are lies…deceptions..
Have you all ever read Galatians? That will clarify the lies..very easily…unless perhaps YOU are a Marrano Jew..trying to lead the followers of Christ astray…and Anti Christ..
TWO HORNS LIKE A LAMB…seeming like Christianity..The Harlot of Babylon religion..the great deception..
The PROMSIES made to Abraham..now belong to those who follow Christ…Galatians 3…its quite clear…The only way the Jews will become heirs to the promises of Abraham..is if they follow Christ..the Messiah NOW…not when he comes…because then it will be too late..
If you love the Jews..you need to show them the truth..otherwise..it will be too late for them..and they will be doomed to hell…sadly so..like all the other non believers…
THE ENTIRE OLD TESTAMENT…IS ABOUT NOTHING OTHER THAN CHRIST…Do you understand this?
And Christ IS ALSO the NEW TESTAMENT AS WELL…the entire bible is about CHRIST..and those who will follow him. are HIS CHOSEN ONES…and today…many Jews do not follow Christ..for they too have been led astray by Lucifer..
If you love them..then tell them the truth…before its too late..
Ive been studying this stuff for years now…Im sure of what I beleive…it is very scriptural…There have been many deceptions…especially coming out of the new bibles..such as the NIV..and others…
NEW VERSIONS ARE VATICAN VERSIONS.
Its beginning to seem that it is true..the Catholic Church is the Harlot that deceives mankind…Many in the past who have COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE…have said so…Martin Luther..and so many others..
These new so called bibles support the Left Behind theology you are following..Theres are Not BIBLES OF GOD..BUT BIBLES MADE BY MEN..WHO DISTORTED THE SCRIPTURES FOR THEIR OWN PURPOSE..
Wow,
You must be pretty thirsty after all of that, would you like some more Milk?
Don said “I would advise you to repent of this stand that you have taken against Israel,”
This is where you err….You do not know who TRUE ISREAL is…
EXODUS 4:22 ISRAEL IS MY SON..MY FIRST BORN..
Those who follow Christ…are Israel under the New Covenant…Christians are the CHILDREN OF ISRAEL TODAY UNDER THE NEW COVENANT
Youve been brainwashed; by Jesuit Jews and other sons of Cain to believe the way you do…putting the non believing Jew and apostate land of Israel over Gods Chosen People..((Colossians 3:12 GODS CHOSEN PEOPLE ARE CHRISTIANS..)))
.the Children of Israel under the new Covenant between God and man ARE THE CHRISTIANS …NOT JEWS…ONLY THOSE WHO FOLLOW CHRIST ARE THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL..WHO IS CHRIST…EXODUS 4:22..ISRAEL IS MY SON..MY FIRSTBORN..
The LAND OF ISRAEL is not an earthly one..but THE NEW JERUSALEM that comes down from heaven..THIS IS THE LAND PROMISED..not some land in a desert in Palestine..
THE TEMPLE IS NOT built in apostate Israel..but is inside of us..We are the Temple of God..our bodies..our minds..
…You are in idol worship. worshiping people who have never been Gods Chosen. because they do not follow Christ…..they are not spiritual children of God..NOT ALL OF ISRAEL…ARE ISRAEL..according to Christ…
be careful..
we are not worshipping idols…by respecting Israel’s rights
and covenant with God
Israel has “never been god’s chosen?” you have not read your bible.
I would advise reading the bible, and not going by what a pastor says
being a former jew makes it really bad that he does not know the bible that he teaches.
there is natural Israel and spiritual Israel……god is not finished with natural ISrael, and when he does finish, all Israel will be saved.
the bible teaches that non jews were grafted into the vine…as some jews were cut off due to sin and unbelief….and it warns that the same will happen to non jews if they sin as well.
replacement theology as taught by your pastor is sin. and error
Well American Mom, I know this, the Israel that is being spoken of is residing in Jerusalem and that because when that false prophet has the abomination set up in the Holy Place, this is what causes the desolation of Jews in Jerusalem. The mistake that is being made these days is that these false teachers have come in and have interpreted the literal nation of Israel as spiritual Israel, that is, as the church. There is nothing in Scripture that would would infer that the Israel is being spoken of symbolically as the church. These are two indivdual groups. God still has unfinished buisness with Israel, namely that seventieth seven or that last seven year period. The literal nation of Israel is that woman of Rev.12 and the 144,000 are the first fruits out of unbelieving Israel who by the grace of God, come to the knowledge that Jesus is their Messiah. The woman (Israel) is then cared for out in the desert for a time, times and a half a time, that is, 3 1/2 years up until the Lord returns at the end of the age to set up his millennial kingdom.
You need to humble yourself before God, for who are you, who are saved by grace through faith, to set yourself up against anyone, much less Israel. Your attitude should be the same as in the parable that Jesus spoke of when two men were standing at the altar and one said, “Lord, I thank you that I am not a sinner like this man next to me. But the other man said would not even look up to heaven and tore his shirt and said, “Lord, have mercy on me a sinner!”
What if God unhardened the hearts of those whom you have been speaking against? Is it not God who justifies the wicked, which we all are? Or did you make yourself righteous?
If there is one thing that I have noticed in these days, it is the increase of false teachers and false teachings and that because this is the fulfiilment of 2 Tim. 4:3-4. These are the days that men and woman will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
Jesus said, “I will build my church and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.” Once God has completed his church, he will then remove the church dead and live from the earth and at that time will then turn his attention back to Israel and finish the the prophesies decreed upon them by the angel in Dan.9:24. At the same time, he will be pouring out his wrath in the form of seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, dismantling the human governments of the earth to make way for his millennial kingdom as described in Dan.2:34-45.
You, a wild olive branch that was grafted in, do not support the original branches, but they support you. Therefore, do not boast against the original branches for you stand by faith and God is able to graft the orginal branches back in to their own olive tree.
On a pesonal note, you seem to be the only one quoting from the “Left behind” series. I on the otherhand quote from 1 Thes.4:13-18 and
1 Cor.15:51-53. Personally, I feel that Tim Lahaye should stick with fiction based on the word, but should not teach eschatology.
REVELATION 1:1
the Revelation of Jesus Christ….which god gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass….and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John which are written therein …for the time IS at hand..
This book..is also about JEsus Christ..and his coming new kingdom..THE NEW JERUSALEM..
REVELATION 21:2 And I John saw the HOLY CITY, THE NEW JERUSALEM coming down from God out of heaven.PREPARED AS A BRIDE ADORNED FOR HER HUSBAND
.(THIS IS THE PROMISED LAND…not an earthly Jerusalem or earthly land of Israel.. ))
3) aND i HEARD A GREAT VOICE OUT OF THE hEAVEN SAYING, bEHOLD..the tabernacle of god is with men.(((IN OUR HEARTS AND IN OUR MINDS..AS PROMISED IN THE OT PROPHESIES UNDER A NEW COVENANT WITH MANKIND)))) .AND HE WILL DWELL WITH THEM..AND THEY SHALL BE HIS PEOPLE..AND GOD HIMSELF SHALL BE WITH THEM..AND BE THEIR GOD.
7) He (JESUS) that overcometh shall inherit all things and I will be his God and he shall be my son…
(((Jesus who is Israel..heir to the promises from God. Yes…God always keeps his word..in in this scripture..thats exactly what hes doing…))
9) ………………come hither…I will shew thee the BRIDE …THE LAMBS WIFE..
10) And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that GREAT CITY, THE HOLY JERUSALEM..DESCENDING OUT OF HEAVEN FROM GOD..
11) Having the Glory of God and her light was like unto a stone most precious…….
The Old Testament is all about Christ…and those who followed God…
The New Testament is all about Christ…and those who follow him. under the New Covenant made between God and man.
The Book of Revelation is all about Christ and his coming Kingdom…not earthly Israel except for Revelation 18…where we are taught that earthly Jerusalem had become the haunt of devils…That doesnt sound like the people of God..
The Book of Revelation 17…the Harlot..the false religion..the deception of the elect…COME OUT OF HER MY PEOPLE.
The bible is all about Christ…not Jews..not Israel…but only Christ..
You put way to much effort into Jewish myths…
The promises were made ONLY TO CHRIST…and those who follow him…also become heirs…because they follow him..
IM GOING TO SHOW YOU SCRIPTURES MY JEW WORSHIP CHURCH NEVER TOUCHED ON…YOU CAN UNDERSTAND WHY…BECAUSE IT DESTROYED THE JEWISH MYTH..THAT NON BELIEVING JEWS ARE STILL SOMEHOW… THE CHOSEN ONES IN THE NEW COVENANT..basically calling Gods word a pack of lies…COLOSSIANS 3:12…CHRISTIANS ARE THE CHOSEN ONES UNDER THE NEW COVENANT..
GALATIANS 3:16 The promises spoken to Abraham and to his seed ..tHE sCRIPTURE does not say and to seeds..meaning many people (Jews) but and to your seed..meaning one person..who is Christ..
Galatians 3:19………..till the seed should come TO WHOM THE PROMISE WAS MADE…
Galatians 3:28..THERE IS NEITHER JEW…NOR GREEK…ETC…..FOR YE ARE ALL ONE IN CHRIST JESUS……and if ye be Christs’s THEN ARE YE ABRAHASMS SEED….AND HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE PROMISE…
See..God kept his promise!!!!…its jsut that you are trying to change Gods word to fit what you want to see…what you have been brainwashed for decades..lies and deceptions from Lucifer used to usher in a Talmudic global gov…
No special anything for non believing Jews…they are out of the game…and are now no different than any other Anti Christ non believer
You have been greatly deceived…
I do not get entangled in long arguments.
believe what you want….
I do not get entangled in long arguments.
believe what you want….
Marianne said this on January 13, 2012 at 6:09 pm | Reply
The truth does not matter to you..it seems..
The tribe of Judah under King John Hyracanus defeated the Edomites, sons of Esau, brother to Jacob/Israel,,Esau, the lineage NOT OF THE COVENANT PROMISES…..and King John FORCED the Edomites to circumcise themselves..and join the tribe of Judah…making it possible for the Israelites to be deceived..their religion perverted .by sons of CAin..aka the Pharisees..
Christ came..and the TRUE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL..followed him…
After Christ…the Catholics, the Roman Empire, defeated the non believing Jews, most likely the Pagan Edomite Jews……and FORCED them to be Catholics…thus…the same thing happened…they were able to deceive Christianity from within…
Note the popes with their Pharisee like costumes..skull caps..and the CAtholic church mixing Christianity with Paganism….The EDOMITES were PAGANS TOO..
TWO HORNS LIKE A LAMB….Seeming to be like Christ..but are not..but are a synagogue of SAtan…Those who say they are of Judah..but are not..as they do lie..
Revelation 18:23-24…….For thy merchants were the great men of the earth, for by thy sorcieries were all nations deceived…….and in HER (BABYLON) was found the BLOOD OF PROPHETS, AND OF SAINTS..and all that were slain upon the earth..
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Look up Canannites in your STrongs Concordance..and you will see that they were called The Merchants….Canannites are Edomites..Esau married into the Canannites..Were told that after Christs return..no more will there be any Canannites nor Edomites..
Jesus accused the Edomite JEWS of murdering the Prophets..
How do we know they were Edomites? The Event of King Hyracanus..made it possible..
The bible tells us that these ‘false Jews’ were sons of Abraham..as Esau was being that his father was Issac…but the False Jews said they were never in captivity in Egypt…Only the Israelites were…sons of Jacob…Therefore…THE SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN has reared its ugly head..
The Catholic church has murdered the saints..in history…THE MARTYRING of the saints has been going on since the days of Christ….Its not all going to happen in 7 years…This last century..the Edomite Jews have murdered millions upon million of Christians in Armenia..Germany..all around Europe..and most recently in Russia…where all evidence of Christianity was earased off the Russian map….by Jewish Bolsheviks…TROTSKY…LENIN..MARX……VOLODARSKY…were all Jews..Stalin was marred ti Jewesses…They murdered 90 million Christians…a far cry from the Jewish so called 6 million..which has been drastically lowered by the Jews themselves…
6 MILLION IS A MAGIC TALMUDIC KABALLAH NUMBER…
Thats why they have claimed taht 6 million Jews were murdered over and over and over all throughout history..
Edomite Jews and CAtholics are one…the Jewish banking system controls the Vatican monies..
Nikita Khrucheve was a Zionist Jew as well..His real name is Salomon Perlemutter…and one day..he slapped his shoe on a table at a UN meetin..and vowed to take America down from within..using useful idiots…
They are here…They came early in the century from Russian…their closely knitted Mafia…and thats exactly what is happening today to America….They are taking us down from within..
PNAC..is a Jewish organization…and the war in Iraq was begat by the NeoCon Jews…Feith..Wolfowitz…Perle…Kristol..Kagen….THROUGH LIES…Imagine that..sons of Cain lying…lol
This false land of Israel as Gods promise..is a lie used to get the Useful Idiots to help them…build Apostae Israel , THE HOME OF DEVILS rEVELATION 18..in order to gain a base in the middle east to gain control of oil
HE WHO CONTROLS THE FOOD..THE RESOURCES..CONTROLS THE PEOPLE..
they use scripture against us..saying that if we do not bless the Jews..we will be cursed…NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH…The curse is only for those who do not follow Christ..not Jews…Those who are blessed..are those who follow Christ…HOW COME YOUR CHURCH NEVER TEACHES YOU THESE SCRIPTURES?? SEE THE DECEPTION..and your falling for it hook line and sinker..
KEEP IN MIND…THE LEFT BEHIND BELIEF CREATED BY MARRANO JESUITS long ago.. PUSHES present day Israel AS A PROMISED LAND..AND JEWS AS GODS Holy Covenant people ((see Colossias 3:12 for truth))) IS TOTALLY NON SCRIPTURAL.this trickery .IS PROMOTED BY THE HARLOT OF BABYLON….IN CAHOOTS WITH Edomite Talmudic JEWS who control all media…governments…all around the world…
THE MASS DELUSION THE BIBLE SPEAKS ABOUT…..THE BIGGEST DECEPTION IN ALL OF TIME.
America being taken down from within…using the brainwashed useful idiots to protect them from exposure…those .who are destroying this CHRISTIAN NATION…AMERICA…..just like was done in Armenia …Germany…Russia…Europe was…now ..it our turn..and you protect them…sadly so..
NOTE..many innocent Jews who live in Israel today…are being used as cannon fodder by the Luciferian Edomites…keep that in mind..as you protect these Edomites who invaded YOUR country…and their coming satanic empire..
THE FALLING AWAY FROM THE TRUTH OF GOD…THAT WAS PREDICTED..
John 8:32 “And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
God bless you greatly…I wish you well…
May he open your eyes…for those who wont…he will make the delusion even stronger..that’s in the bible..
Use ONLY scripture to seek the truth..
use history to seek truth….Because if you do not know history..you will not understand where you are today…or where you are heading in the future…HISTORY REPEATS ITSELF..WHEN THE PEOPLE DO NOT KNOW IT..
tThis video will show you THE ORIGINS OF THE LEFT BEHIND THEORIES…JEWS AS THE CHOSEN..AND DESERT ISRAEL..AS THE PROMISED LAND…ALL NOT TRUE..BUT A TRICK BEGET LONG AGO..WITHING THE CATHOLIC CHURCH..BY JESUITS..AND RESURRECTED IN MODERN TIMES BY GENTILES AND MARRANO JEWS..
Go to counter #4:50 for the story of the origins of ‘Left BEhind’ theology..
2Timothy 2:15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
We are exhorted to preach the word and to be able to defend it.
2Timothy 4:2 Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.
Scripture is the tool God has given us and it is our duty to study it, know it, and apply it.
2Tmothy 3:16-17 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
* Studying the bible helps us know the truth: As students of the bible, we must not trust the authority of man, but search the scriptures to see what God says. We must study the bible with diligence and prayer.
Acts 17:11 These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.
It is important to have prayer and communication with God so that the Holy Spirit can teach us. 1Co 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
Truth is important, especially when it is God’s truth. If we study God’s word, we will know His truth and we will be able to recognize a lie when we hear one.
1John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
Discover the truth and do not be carried down the path of deception
2Peter 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.
I did not come by your blog by accident…There is a reason that I ended up here…and not by my efforts…..I just stumbled in…looking up things about the Restrainer…
I wish you well..For your childrens sake…seek the truth of God…
TRUTH LEFT BEHIND .COM
I Corintians 1:2…Paul speaking to the Church of God..
I Corinthians 3:16…Your are the TEMPLE OF GOD
Ephesians.. 2:21..In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto a HOLY TEMPLE OF THE LORD… In whom ye also are builded TOGETHER for an habitation of God through spirit…
We are the Temple of God…under the New Covenant..
II Thess 2:3-4…When the son of perdition sits IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD..(((deceived Christians..)))
II Thess 2:10 Them that perish..because they received not the LOVE OF THE TRUTH..THAT THEY MIGHT BE SAVED…And for this cause//God shall send them strong delusion that they should believe a lie.. That they all might be damned who believe not the truth..but had pleasure in unrighteousness..
The temple of God is IN US..THE CHRISTIANS…not a temple built in Israel..
The New Kingdom of Christ who is True Israel..is a spiritual one…not a fleshly one…Fleshly Jews are not Gods Chosen…Only those of us who are in the Spirit of God..Jew…Gentile..doesnt matter…just that we follow Christ..and because we do…we are the heirs to the promises..
God always keeps his promise….He never rewards those who do not follow him…and fleshly non saved Jews in apostae Israel of today..are not Gods Chosen…Its a myth…TITUS chapter 1 tells us…..PAY NO ATTENTION TO JEWISH MYTHS..
Strongs Concordance…#3067..Yhuwdiyth…Jewess: Jehudith a Canaanitess: Judith..
Edomites are Canannites…thus…Edomite Jews who infiltrated the Tribe of Judah through King John Hyracannus forced circumcision of the nation of Edom..into Judah..
Judaism is NOT the religion of Christ..Moses…Jacob…Noah..Abraham..but instead..it is a Talmudic cult…based on Babylonian mysticism…the Cabala of Cain…the Teaching of the elders …teachings that Christ condemned so adamantly..
Christ was never a Jew..nor has a Jew been an Israelite..nor an Israelite a Jew….they are from different separate tribes..
Just like the Harlot that resides in Christianity..the same thing happened to the Mosaic Hebrews with the Edomite Pharisees…Herod was an Edomite….and because of his status with Rome..he gained power..and passed it along to his people..the Jews…this is still done today in many countries…THE MORE THINGS CHANGE..THE MORE THEY REMAIN THE SAME..
…Its Genesis 3:15…pursuing the people of God..
Fear not those who can harm your flesh..but those who can steal your soul..
Your soul is in grave jeopardy…I pray you find the truth..but you must seek it…do it for your children’s sake..as well.
ANTICHRIST IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD..
ALL i JUST SHOWED YOU..IS HERE IN THIS VIDEO…PLEASE WATCH..ITS ALL SCRIPTURAL..
Your offering of this video is exacty what the Scripture is speaking of when it says, “They will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.” Go listen to this teacher and that teacher, watch this video and read this book.
Study the word of God for yourself instead of listening to them and adopting their teachings.
Well then… Back to the question of is america the restrainer that holds back the Antichrist and his rain of terror to be unleashed upon an unsuspecting world?
I read these words pend by the hand of another that I have considered to be note worthy when reflecting on the above question. So I will leave them here for you to ponder. Then I will ask you this question. How well would the removal of America as a Restrainer fit into this interpretation of scripture?
And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast,
that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause
that as many as would not worship the image of the beast
should be killed.
—Revelation 13:15
In the previous verse, we observed the Antichrist putting out
the call to “make an image to the beast.” Here we see that he
somehow has the “power” to “give life unto the image”—and then
he causes all who “would not worship” the image to “be killed.”
Again, this verse has been found by many a scholar to be utterly
bewildering. Though, as it happens, our Islamic insight may serve
to dispel some of the mystery.
Having established that the “image to the beast” is likely a new
Islamic Empire—which has been modeled after the former Islamic Empire—one might reasonably conclude that the implied meaning
behind giving “life unto the image” refers to the Antichrist using
his “power,” or worldly influence, to symbolically “give life” to his
newly formed kingdom. Assuming this to be the case, the verse
goes on to tell us that the “image to the beast,” or new Islamic
Empire, now has the power to “speak” with authority and order
that those who do not worship the “beast” (Islam) “should be
killed.”
It should be noted that in ascribing a symbolic meaning to the
Antichrist’s giving “life unto the image,” we have not merely made
an arbitrary decision to do so. As we learned earlier, the Book of
Revelation is, for the most part, a symbolic book, in which allegory
is used to illustrate literal events. Therefore, the imagery of the Antichrist symbolically giving life to the Beast (Islam) fits very well
within the overall genre of the Book. Further, the alternative possibility—which is to interpret this verse literally—presumes that the
Antichrist (or Satan) actually has the power to give life to some
type of inanimate image or statue. This, of course, is not a plausible interpretation, as only God has the power to give life.
At this point, having analyzed only two verses, we can already
see a picture beginning to form: The Antichrist has essentially ordered all those who dwell on the earth to create a new Islamic Empire, or Caliphate. As we witness the birth of this kingdom, it
becomes increasingly clear that the Antichrist is a ruler who wishes
to impose a specific set of laws and principles upon all those who
“dwell on the earth.” By telling all to assume a likeness of the
Beast, he is, in all reality, requiring that everyone convert to Islam
and submit to Islamic Laws. The only alternative for those who do
not, is death.
Again, this model of behavior fits squarely with Islamic beliefs
and ideals. These same actions can be consistently observed in the
headlines today, as Islamic extremists call for the entire world to
be ruled under Islam and Sharia Law.
America, America God shed his grace on thee. and crown thy good with brotherhood from sea to shinning sea.
Hello all,
Forgive me, but I just wanted to make a slight correction:
You said:
“Revelation 13:15 In the previous verse, we observed the Antichrist putting out the call to “make an image to the beast.” Here we see that he somehow has the “power” to “give life unto the image”—and then he causes all who “would not worship” the image to “be killed.”
Rebut:
The second beast, aka false prophet (as he is later identified in Rev.16:13 and Rev.19:20), he is the one who is seen ordering the inhabitants of the earth to make an image of the first beast, aka antichrist, aka man of lawlessness. The second beast/false prophet is also the one who forces the inhabitants of the earth to receive the mark of the beast.
In the beginning of Rev.13:11, the second beast/false prophet is introduced and is identified as the “He” in Rev.13:13 who performs the great and miraculous signs. He performs these on behalf of the first beast, that is, he performs them to give the first beast credibility as one who will be proclaiming himself to be God. The same “He” (second beast) who orders the inhabitants of the earth to make an image of the first beast is the same one who is given power to give breath to the image. He (the second beast/false prophet) is also the one who forces the inhabitants of the earth to receive the mark.
It is the second beast/false prophet who is introduced in Rev.13:11 and therefore from Rev.13:11 thru 17 everywhere that you see the word “He”, it is referring back to the same person who was originally introduced in verse 11, which is the second beast/false prophet.
I personally believe that the second beast/false prophet is going to be one of the future popes. Because of the dedication of Roman Catholics to that pagan system and its leader, whatever that second beast/false prophet instructs the devout to do, they will follow. If the second beast/false prophet is a future pope, then the first beast/antichrist would have all those who follow after that pagan system in his hip pocket and that because their leader, the pope, would be the antichrist’s right-hand man. And by those counterfeit miraculous signs and wonders being performed by the second beast, the inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life will be greatly deceived by them, which is the very purpose for them being performed.
Hello again catholic man and all,
You said:
“Having established that the “image to the beast” is likely a new Islamic Empire—which has been modeled after the former Islamic Empire”
Rebut:
Consider this, that image of the beast is non other than that abomination of desolation spoken of in Dan.9:27 and quoted of by the Lord in Mt.24:15. The verse states:
“When you see standing in the holy place the abomination spoken of by the prophet Daniel….).
The holy place was the room just outside the holy of holies within the temple and therefore cannot be referring to an Islamic Empire. Furthermore, this image is spoken of as an object or a likeness and not as a kingdom or an empire.
Hi Don,
I do appreciate your comments and am not here to argue or dispute your views concerning the Catholic church or its Popes. I am however intrigued by the question of America as a Restrainer. In my own personal studies I have come across this teaching of Islam as the Beast religion system. Speaking hypothetically, I was asking how well America would represent the restraining force against the advance of Islam as the beast and what you and other readers here might think the world would be like if America were removed form her prominent position?.
Hi Edward,
Yes, I apologize if I came off as argumentative. I only wanted to correct the issue of who is doing what in Rev.13 according to Scripture. Personally, I do not believe whatsoever as America being the restrainer. Remember, the restrainer is not only holding back the man of sin so that he can be revealed at his proper time, but he is also holding back the full power of sin as can be seen from the following verse:
“For the secret power of lawlessness is already at work, but “the one” who now holds “It” back will continue to do so until “He” is taken out of the way.”
That being said, restraining sin would be a spiritual issue requiring supernatural abilities and neither America nor any other nation on earth is capable of accomplishing something of this magnatude and that because we are the problem. And as man continues to move further and further away from God, the acts of the sinful nature are becoming more and more magnified, which are the qualities of Satan.
Hi ya Don and Edward,
I think that I may have voiced this, or something along the same lines, ages ago somewhere above.
2 Thessalonians 2:6,7. KJV.
6 And now ye know what {withholdeth} that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work : only “he who now” {letteth} will let, until he be taken out of the way.
Above in brackets I have enclosed two words. Both of these words, though translated differently into English are derived from the same Greek word “κατέχω” transliterated as “katechō”, (Strong’s 2722). The definition of this word is, “to hold back, detain, retain from going away, to restrain, hinder (the course or progress of) that which hinders, Antichrist from making his appearance,
to check a ship’s headway i.e. to hold or head the ship, to hold fast, keep secure, keep firm possession of,to get possession of, take to possess.”
One of the key words which would discredit the Nation of America as being this restrainer would be the Greek “ἄρτι” transliterated as “arti”, (Strong’s 737) and translated into English as, “he who now” which I have enclosed in quotation marks above. The definition for “arti” is, “just now, this moment, now at this time, at this very time, this moment.”
Therefore this “restrainer” was an active and present force during the time that this epistle was written.
America would not even become a Nation until 1776. America simply can not be considered to be this same restrainer.
Be Blessed
To Edward, Don, Alienated….
the purpose of this post was to not address
who THE restrainer is…..since only God can restrain evil as a spiritual force.
but…
to address america as A restrainer…..
—-
America could not ever take the place of the holy spirit
——–
while God is in control, He can use nations to punish other nations, and hold back evil.
just like he can
use individuals to hold back or restrain evil on a more immediate physical level.
——-
If an intruder comes to your house, God can use you to protect your family and restrain the evil
—–
So God can also use America to protect nations, especially Israel, from the beast of Islam.
—
Once America falls, and troops come home, you will see a massive attack against Israel,
and Islam will launch more attacks over Europe, since America will not be there to stop it.
–
So ….”THE” restrainer, who is God…..can use America as “A” restrainer to accomplish his purpose
Hi Marianne,
Well then sure, in that respect the premise is more than possible.
And in response to Leatherneck, his comment is valid as well.
Where as heaven is spiritually light and white, and hell is the opposite and dark, things of this world seem to be grey, comprised of the capacity to demonstrate both wonderful acts of love, or unspeakable acts of evil.
No one, or anything appears to be comprised of solely one or the other.
Be Blessed
If anything, the American CFR controled government is part of the problem. Supporting Israel’s enemys, sending porn across the globe, support abortion, and homsexuality. A ticket to disaster.
Wow what a lot of hatred and lies and evil doctrines preached by American mom and I am sure that she has listened to none for the bible she reads is the doctrines of men. It is an evil plight to chase these men who carry these demons on their shoulders. It is everywhere and it is called Anti-semetic Replacement theology and oh AM those Jesuits were and are Catholic military order of priests and not Jewish. But, of course you will believe your own evil lies and call them Jews but, oh the darkenss you shroud yourself in is evil beyond belief. It is a pity to see and hear the evil you preach.
To topic I guess we will see when we are there though this is coming to an end far faster than many of His children realize for the iniquity that already worked in the first days of the gospel and before is coming to its end soon and Islam will attack Israel and He WILL defend Her!
Who is like unto the Beast, who can make war with it ? Who is it other than America . Further the “gay induction ” into the “Beast” is itself a sign to a curse., denoting this end time Babylon with its many false preachers, prophesied from the time of the Old Testament Prophets.
hello abey
To me, the Beast is everything, in every country, that is against God, and His holiness. What you say is consistent with this concept. So I agree with you.
“Whose number is as the sands of the sea”
“Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees & Herod” which today is manifested in the Jewish Babylonian Talmud come in from The Political Babylon – London one of a three Babylon, off the Spiritual Babylon(Babylonian beliefs unto Pagan/Druidism off Hinduism in India through its new age beliefs) & expressed via the Commercial Babylon through the American Caesar even unto her leavened laws. But for His name’s sake -Israel & not necessarily the people who dwell in it who call themselves secular in the doctrine of the devils. through their Talmuds unto the star of their god Rempham, undermining the Righteousness of God. The Israel that is stated about is to “Spiritual Israel”, come in from the Arc of the Covenant in the revelations (Spiritually & individually) reestablished by God through Abraham even unto the Gentiles. For them in Christ are the children of Abraham which children are the children of faith.whose elect are the remnant seed of the Woman who care not for their lives unto the end, who keep the commandments of God & have the testimony of Christ Jesus, for the testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of Prophesy.
Apparently, you have not read the Talmud…..because that is not what it says.
If you stop copying propaganda from the internet, and read the bible and talmud, you will find truth.
Unfortunately the interpretations by your mind is far from the Biblical revelations off the Spirit, like your Babylonian Talmud in its hatred of the Christ ,speculates on the Arc of the Covenant,(the very reconnection between God & Man) to contradictions, when Divine revelations do not speculate. Since you talk about the Bible what is the revelation of the contention between Archangel Michael & satan with regards to the body of Moses in Chapter Jude? By the way the internet does not give the answer so do not scramble for it., for your contradictions, lie in your own name which you do not believe.
abey
my interpretations are fine, because I actually READ the books I am talking about.
you have not.
the talmud is a book of civil law, not a book against Christ.
Satan did not know where Moses was buried. It was kept a secret from him.
‘”Where the mind is to interpretations the Spirit is to revelations” likewise is the Bible to the revelations & Talmud to interpretations, So Marianne ,ask yourself with regards the source of your truth- from The Mind which is but to speculations or The Spirit which is to the Truth.
Conclusions from both the mind and the spirit can be valid, or they can be not true.
truth is truth.
false is false.
Correction, Jesus is the connection between God and man. By the way, where is the ark of the covenent? Exactly!
“For in Him(Christ) is all the fulness of the Godhead bodily”., again to the words of Jesus of the manner ” You neither know the Father or the Son,, but them unto whom the Son pleases to reveal.” , again to the Prophecy of Prophet Jeremiah with regard to the revelation of the Covenant, individually & in the Spirit by God in His time & Mercy, to the gathering(spiritual) of His people. In answer to your question, Had you the revelation , you would not have been asking about the whereabouts of the Arc. in the first place. But again the answer to your Question via the Babylonian Talmud is that ” it may be found” which is subject to speculations, back to the question.
You know, you’re very good at dancing around words and trying to sound spiritual and enlightened, but you never say anything. Previously you said that man’s connection to God is the Ark of the covenant, which is why I brought up the point as to its current location, meaning, no one knows. The Ark of the covenent was the place where the high priest, once a year would make atonement for himself, his household and for all of Israel. The Shekina Glory would appear over the atonement cover above the Cherubim to receive the blood offering. Those days are over, as we are under a new covenent which was established by the blood of Jesus, who is not after the priesthood of Aaron, but of priesthood of Melchizedek and who does not enter into a human sanctuary behind a curtain of separation, but ascended directly into heaven to sit at the right hand of God and who is ever making intercession for those who believe in him. Jesus is our connection to the Father, for whoever has the Son has life, but whoever does not have the Son will not see life.
me?
Not you Marriane, Abey.
The Fox that could not get to the grapes blamed the grapes, or shall we say “accused it”.
Hi Abey,
Without the poetry and In English Abey, what are you trying to say? I believe in Christ crucified, buried and resurrected; this is the gospel. What are you believing in?
Sorry I don’t address numbers, but names, ’cause trading the names for numbers is to the Mark of the Beast, which I suppose is more than just poetry. Moreover to your question, what i posted on Aug 13 is what it is, to the Fulness of Christ again as mentioned in Col Ch.2:9 “For in Him(Christ) is all the fulness of the Godhead bodily”
Yes, in Christ dwells the fullness of the Godhead, with this I agree, but nothing that you wrote previous to that makes any sense. What does, “I don’t address numbers” have to with anything?
The Arc made by Moses was a model of the original one which Apostle John saw in the revelations, so the new Covenant is the revelation of the original one, which is to the fulness of Christ Jesus , So what are those Two Cherubs,? which again relates to Zechariah as the 2 Olive trees standing on the Right & the Left beside the God of all the earth.. Friend, the revelation to this comes from God Himself individually in the spirit spoken by Prophet Jeremiah in the book of the Maccabees(Catholic Bible) & to the words of Jesus of the manner “You do not know the Father or the Son , expect them unto whom the Son pleases to reveal” which is to the gathering unto Himself(individually one by one & not collectively) His people in His Mercy , not that we deserve it for all fall short of the Glory of God, for it is not we who choose Him but he who chose us. This gathering is a Spiritual one . For the Angel told the Apostles to His accession ‘The same way he went up the same way he will come”. Now the way he ascended was in the resurrected state ,the Spiritual state. Where Jesus was born in the Physical among Physical Israel, so will his coming be in the spiritual state among Spiritual Israel for to it is no Jew or gentile,, caste or creed, male or female etc.them In Christ who are the Children of Abraham are the children of Faith, That sure is Righteousness, for it is the faith of Abraham which God greatly blessed to be as the sands & stars untagged, (take heed not to number your name) except that his first coming was in the line of Abraham, Issac & Jacob. This is the truth of the Covenant in its fulness., to look ahead & not behind, not in terms of genetics(which is to science) but to the Spirit, to the understanding that only God knows who the Israel were, is & to be. The True Israel. Never let go that faith in Christ, like unto your own life to the trials & temptations even more so to come in the time ahead. For you see today the falling away from the faith taking place through the great Apostasy Prophesied. Gay relations to alternate life styles being promoted in the US a sign to that which is but to sin , And if US is promoting sin how can sin restrain sin, so the US as the restrainer is untrue , for the Human soul is to morality & not to Politics. Good day.
Hi Abey,
I agree with you that America is not the restrainer, for Scripture states that he is holding back lawlessness as well as holding back the lawless one from being revealed. Since he is restraining lawlessness, this would also include the lawlessness that was present from the time that Paul wrote that Scripture because he says,”the secret power of lawlessness is already at work,” present tense from Paul’s time. That being the case, America was not around during Paul’s time to be the one doing the restrainig.
However, regarding what you said,
“which is to the gathering unto Himself(individually one by one & not collectively).
If by this statement you are referring to the resurrection and catching away of the dead and living in Christ at his appearing, then, the Scrpture is very clear that the entire church dead and alive is gathered all at the same time. The word “gathering” would not support an individual being collected, because the word is in the plural meaning more than one. In support of this, we need to look at 1 Thes.4:16:
“For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
* “And the dead in Christ will rise first”
The word “dead” in the verse above is also in the plural, meaning more than one. Also, by stating that the dead will rise [first], this would infer that there are others that will rise after who are not dead. For if something is labeled as “First” then something has to follow. Notice that Paul then says,
“After that, we who still alive and are left.”
Notice the word “We” in verse above, which again is in the plural denoting more than one.
” we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.”
The verse above shows that once all the dead in Christ have been resurrected from their graves into the air (which happens in a flash), then we who are still alive according to 1 Cor.15:51,
“We will not all sleep (be dead), but we will all be changed—in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye,”
So to recap, when the Lord decends from heaven, the bodies of those who have died in Christ will rise and immediately be reunited with their souls/Spirits, which will happen in a flash. Immediately after that happens, those who belong to Christ and are still alive, their bodies will be changed immediately from mortal to immortal in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye and will meet those who will have just previouly been resurrected, where we will all be gathered together to meet the Lord in the air. Then according to John 14:1-3, the Lord will take us all back to the Father’s house (Like a bride) that where is we may be also.
Also, regarding what you said,
“This gathering is a Spiritual one”
Though these resurrected bodies are referred to as “Spiiual” they will in fact be solid bodies. As proof of this, Jesus must be our example of the resurrected body:
“Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a ghost does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.” (Luk 24:39)
Notice that the Lord has a physial body of flesh and bone.
The fact that the Scripture says, “You will not allow your Holy One to see decay” would also demonstrate that the resurrection is bodily and not spiritual/invisible. Another proof that Jesus’ resurrection, as well as ours, would be when after Christ was crucified, the Jewish leaders came to Pilot and said:
“we remember that while he was still alive that deceiver said, ‘After three days I will rise again.’ So give the order for the tomb to be made secure until the third day. Otherwise, his disciples may come and steal the [body] and tell the people that he has been raised from the dead. This last deception will be worse than the first.”
The fact that the Jews wanted a guard in order to make sure the Jesus’ descipls didn’t steal his [body] would show that they knew the resurrecton was speaking of his body and not a spiritual/invisible resurrection . In fact, the word “Anastasis” translated “Resurrection” is defined in Strong’s as:
” literally, “stand up” (or “stand again”), referring to physical resurrection (of the body).”
When the resurrection takes place, the bodies of those who have died in Christ will be regenerated to those immortal heavenly bodies, which will be solid bodies, but with heavenly/spiritua characteristics.
Yours in Christ
In the fulness of His state did God reveal Himself as The I AM,, & to what state do you reveal yourself as “some 52”., for everybody has original names for all names are connected to The Man, to God By changing names to some nos is to a sign of being “Cut off” for the beast to pick.. So for further discussion you need to come by your given name, so that I may address you into the continuations.
Hello again Abey,
My name is Don and dmcal52 is my user name for this site, and that is all that it is and God knows this as well. It has nothing to do with beast or anything else. It it is just a user name and does not connect me with anything evil in any way. Yes, Jesus did reveal himself as the “I AM” and as other designations as well, such as, Immanuel, The Word of God, Eternal Life, The Lamb of God and many more. Having a nick-name does not put one in danger of being “Cut off.”
Hi Don,
. Thanks. The Bible does state that “God calls you by your name & the name that is called is by the First given name, to which I be a witness, So given names are important on which was my Advise, for your sake.. What is meant by tagging is to coded names or Nos.or Both which becomes implicated to the mark of the Beast on which i am not going to eleborate, for instead of getting into the depths of satan to dark sentences, get into the simplicity of Christ.
To the topic of Iniquity & to the restrainer be not deceived for first must come the falling way & that which causes is the Apostasy so the whole thing goes by the meaning to “Out of itself” to “Become into” which is to unrestraining itself to the man of sin , the son of perdition for the He who restrains is the Anti christ himself, read Pseudo christ & he being removed is to come out of its own restrainment. For the iniquity has been at work for a long time but hidden. Ancient Rome is what is the America today, the “Little Horn” with a proud eye speaking great things , For who can go against the beast, who can make war with it. The word iniquity to lawlessness refers to going against the law of God or Leavening the law to the words of Jesus ” The leaven of Herod” clearly visible in the leavened laws to gay relationships etc. Where democracy is Govt off,by & for the people it becomes easy to turn it into People off, by & for the Govt, using the ‘Fear factor” terrorism or whatever & can be said as” by itself for itself.” if you are to know the Truth of 9/11 etc for the Leaven of herod is off the leaven of the Pharisees, for all leavens are interconnected.
And now comes the Antidote -The Christ.: What you have stated to the gathering is to the rapture, which is to after the Tribulations to which first know that there are no Pre or Mid Tribulation only Post Tribulation Rapture., except that the period of Tribulation be shortened for the sake of the Elect. The Elect of God also called the Remnant seed of the woman, the first fruits of the lamb. The gathering unto Himself Individually & Spiritually refers to them The Prophets & the Saints which individual gathering has been taking place ever since His resurrection, in the words of St. Bernard there are 3 comings of Christ The first was in the weakness of the flesh, the second in the Spirit & Power , known as the intermediate coming, unto some which is to the elect unto revealing Himself & unto sealing them from the time of His resurrection till the last one is sealed & then will be his third coming or what is generally know as the Second coming of Christ in full Glory when all nations & tongues will bend their knees. Take courage for even the god of this world standing before Him does not speak unless spoken to, none dare, leave alone looking at His glorious face. He is tough very tough & I witness that & it is not for nothing that Apostle John the beloved Apostle says he fell as dead before Him, in revelations. But first the transgression have to come to its full when will come the great & terrible day of the Lord. When many will realize that he is not the Christ they thought, even sitting cross legged & chanting “Love & Fresh air” mistaking Him for a Kris’na. This Pre Tribulation stuff being preached is leading many a people to become complacent to lukewarm not contending for the Faith, which is again to the Apostasy, for the Hour of temptation will come unto all that dwell on the earth & to His words that he will keep them from the Hour of temptation(on which this Pre Treb rapture is based) means He will be with them through it, so do not be deceived.
Unfortunately many a Jews through the babylonian talmud,”The leaven of the Pharisees” in their greed for power & might, to the Apostasy are being led to the very House from which Abraham was called out off, For it is not by might neither by power but by My Spirit says the Lord of Hosts
America is not ancient Rome. It is the last nation state to fall to the global government system called the WTO. America maybe part of the little horn as the plan for America is to be within region one of the WTO which includes Canada, America, and Mexico. Also, known as the North American Union.
America has become one of the leaders in the global government. It is helping to spread abortion, homosexuality, sex outside of marriage, spoiling the child… Anything that G-d has ordained, rhe CFR American government is against. Just as the global government is against.
We will continue to see strange weather patterns, earthquakes, and civil upheavel for turning our backs on G-d. We have sown the wind. Now, we will reap the whirlwind.
Hi Leatherneck, Abey and all,
You are correct in that, America is not ancient Rome. The Beast is clearly stated in Revelation as a [city] that sits on [seven hills] and the city that ruled over the kings of the earth. There is only one city that fits this discription and that is Rome/Vatican, which points to her Babylonian mystery religion, which is why she is called “Mystery Babylon.” There are some who think that Revelation is speaking regarding literal Babylon, but then it wouldn’t be a mystery would it?
Within Roman Catholicism can be found the characteristics of the pagan beliefs and rituals of ancient Babylon:
At the onset of the true church of Christ, the powers of darkness were moving men to kill off those who professed Christ, but inspite of this the church continued to grow. Obviously, since the threat of persecution and death wasn’t working, Satan changed his strategy by moving Emporer Constantine to make Christianity the official religion of the Roman Empire. The problem with this is that the majority of people were worshiping multiple god’s (polytheism), with their many rituals and traditions that were intermingled into the now scewed pagan branch of Christianity called Roman Catholicism.
Mythraism:
This was the worship of a Persian/Babylonian god called Mythra and was especially popular among the Roman military. One of the main rituals was the sacrificing of a bull, which included a ritual celebration, were they drank wine that was said to have turned into blood and ate the bread of the sacrifice after an initiation ceremony consisting of a ritual baptism. This ritual was intergrated into the Roman Catholic ceremony of the Eucharist. As stated by the Council of Trent—that “in the blessed sacrament of the Holy Eucharist, after the consecration of the bread and wine, our Lord Jesus Christ, true God and man, is truly, really, and substantially contained under the appearances of those perceivable realities.” Paraphrased, that means that the Roman Catholic church believes that at the time the Eucharist is consumed, transubstantianion takes place which means that the Eucharist literally becomes, in substance, but not in appearance, the body and blood of our Lord Jesus Christ. To them this is in fulfillment of when Jesus said, “Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you have no life in you.” This is nothing but Mythraism carried over into Roman Catholicism. The eating of the flesh and blood of one’s god. Roman Catholicism made the same mistake as Nicodemus made by not understanding that Jesus was speaking figuratively when he said, “No one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.” In which Necodemus replied, “Surely a man cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb to be born!”
The many god’s that were worshiped were simply renamed and carried over and applied to the saints that are now worshiped and prayed to.
Then you have Maryology, which of course is the worship of Mary, the blessed woman whom God used to bring the Lord into the world as a man. With Roman Catholicism, Mary has been crowned Queen of Heaven, mother of god, pertetual virgin, born without original sin, co-savior, co-mediator and assumed up into heaven.
I could go on and on with their dogma that states that Jesus sacrifice only paid the penalty for original sin and that any sins after batism must be dealt with by priests through the sacraments. Then there is the dogma of papal infallability put into place in 1870 by Pope Pius IX. And what about that 13th century BC Egyptian obelisk that was used for sun worship sitting out in the center of St. Peter’s square that was originally brought over from Egypt by Caligula in AD 37. They claim that it is a symbol of humanity reaching out to Christ. It is nothing of the sort! What a blasphemous thing to have at the entrance to the institution that claims to be the true church of Christ!
If anyone fits the bill as the woman who rides the beast of Revelation, it would be Rome/Vatican who was literally built on seven hills and was that city who ruled over the kings of the earth, with all of her Babylonian mystery practices. She even wears the exact colors described in Revelation:
“The woman was dressed in [purple] and [scarlet], and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. The next time you are channel surfing and come upon an event from the Vatican, watch it and you will see a perfect description of the woman who rides the beast. For everything in there is literally glittering with gold and all of the cardinals, bishops, archbishops and the pope will all be arrayed in this way, including the cathedral itself. The pope even wears a hat called a Mitre, which is very simular to the ones worn by the priests of the pagan fish god, dagon. This is just another example of how the pagan Babylonian mystery religions found their way into Roman Catholicism.
Roman Catholicism claims that each pope is the successor of the Apostle Peter, but in actuallity they are the successors of the Roman Emporers before them and even took upon themselves the designation of Pontifex Maximus. Roman Catholicism’s goal is to have control over all the worldly goverments as the church surpreme, as well as over every individual. They had this power in prior centuries and they did this through the Medieval, Spanish and Roman inquistions, where through the power of the popes, anyone who refused to be coverted to Roman Catholicism were persecuted, imprisoned, tortured, burned at the stake, strangled and afterwards their property was confiscated by the pagan church of Rome. Didn’t they ever read the part where Jesus said, “whoever will not receive your words, when you leave that town kick the dust off your feet as a witness against them?” Mother church (pagan Rome) even supported Hitler in his campain of the extermination of the Jews.
Roman Catholicism will again gain control over the world governments and that by the revealing of the beast, that man of lawlessness, that antichrist. Except this time one of Romes future popes will be given power to perform miracles, signs and wonders and that for the purpose of giving credibility to that first beast who will be proclaiming himself to be God. Taking into consideration the authority that the pope has over the devout, what do you think is going to happen when he begins performing miracles, signs and wonders, even causing fire to come down out of heaven in full view of the inhabitants of the earth? The world will be deceived by those counterfeit signs and wonders and the beast will have all of religion in his hip pocket and that because their pope will be representing and supporting him.
“I saw the Woman was drunk with the blood of the saints!”
Don,
Seven Mountains are not 7 hills, none of the colors are found to be the Vatican colors, but you will be surprised that it pertains to the Colors of the American flag , so worshiped today. Vatican is not a sea port to be wailed off by Ship Masters neither has it a Military force There is not one prophecy in the Bible which refers to the Catholic Church as the Babylonian Whore , all those Mytraism , Kisna, Isis etc was a prelude to the actual truth of Christ, but as counterfeit to the actual, to the words of Jesus “Them before me are thiefs & robbers,but the sheep who recognize my voice hear them not.” Catholic Church is one of the 7 Churches, the Church of Thyatira, but does have its problem in the Jezebel Spirit with many of them found today in the “Council of Obama” against the Church which is to Christ. If you observe the happenings today you find that it is the Catholic Church which is mainly standing against the Obama’s moral, gay & sexual assault, whereas the Anglicans & its episcopal with many a protestant & reformist Churches falling away , even to many an Evangelical Churches become complacent to the Apostolic Faith, to the Great Apostasy Prophesied. Unfortunately you are one of them who seem to be deceived, so be not blind or blinded but open in your views, which again goes back to the beginning 0f my conversation with you “For you have not the revelation of the Arc of the Covenant to the Original Covenant” which is to the Fulness of Christ Jesus for without the Revelation of his Fulness one cannot come into his fulness, but be led to deceit to the words ” For they believed not the truth, so God send them a strong delusion so that they believe the lie”.
‘but you will be surprised that it pertains to the Colors of the American flag’
So does the British, French, Australian, Czech republic and we can go on
Abey,
They are seven hills, which is meant to point to the city that was literallly and is famous for beingbuilt on those seven hills. The other characteristic is that the woman is that great [city] who rules over the kings of the earth. At the time that John was receiving this information from the angel, Rome was that city that ruled over the kings of the earth. I couldn’t help but laugh when you said, ” none of the colors that I mentioned are found to be Vatican colors” because scarlet and purple are the exact colors that are prevalent in the Vatican and in Roman Catholicism proper. I think that you had better take some time and watch some of Rome’s broadcasts. I have plenty of pictures that I would paste here, which show the liturgy and the Vatican itself glittering with gold, scarlet and purple. These are their standard colors, so I don’t know how you could make that claim. To prove my point, everyone who is reading this, on your search engine like Google or Yahoo, etc., type in “Vatican Mass” and click on images and you will see gold, scarlet and purple as the reoccurring colors of the liturgy and the gold of the Vatican.
America is not the woman who rides the beast and that because the woman is said to sit on seven hills/mountains, which America does not and the woman is said to be a city that rules over the kings of the earth, where America is a nation and not a city. You need to pay attention to the information given in Scripture. Yes the Vatican is a major exporter and yes she is one of the richest cities in the world. When that beast, that ruler is revealed, then that false prophet (a future pope) will have all the power of the world armies at his finger tips, because he will be working directly with the beast who will be proclaiming himself to be God. And the false prophet will be performing miracles, signs and wonders to give the beast credibilty as being God.
You said:
“If you observe the happenings today you find that it is the Catholic Church which is mainly standing against the Obama’s moral, gay & sexual assault,”
You mean that false religious system that continues to turn out pedophiles and who attemps to hide it?
That religious system who believes that Jesus shed blood was only good enough to cover original sin and that any sin committed after baptism must be dealt with by a priest through sacraments of works?
Or that religious system that believes that all grace flows through Mary and that Mary was a perpetual vigin, a co-redeemer, a co-mediator and refers to her as the “Queen of Heaven?”
That religious system of Roman Catholicism that believes in Transubstantiation which is the belief that when partaking of the Eucharist that you are literally eating the flesh and blood of the Lord Jesus and sacrificing him all over again?
You mean that system of pagan christianity that has an obelisk from 19th century B.C. Egypt sitting out in the middle of St. Peter’s square that was used for sun worship?
That religious system that, instead of believing that Jesus paid the entire penalty for our sins, believes that when one dies one must go to purgatory to be cleansed by fire of any sins that have not been atoned for? (The blood of Christ cleanses, not fire).
That religious system that has in its law the dogma of Indulgences which is where the pope or bishop can reduce a persons time spent in purgatory for the remission of the temporal punishment due to God for a Christian’s sins?
You mean that religious system of Roman Catholicism that was responsible for the inquisitions where people were imprisoned, tortured, burnt at the stake, murdered and then had their property confiscated?
That pagan system called Roman Catholicism that supported and commended Adolph Hitler in his extermination of millions of Jews?
Make no mistake, Rome/Vatican with her pagan Christan system is that woman who rides the beast. Throughout the centuries the goal of the Roman Catholic church is to be recognized as the one true church and having control over all peoples as supreme. They will achieve this when that man of lawlessness is revealed, because the pope of that time will be the one perforing those miracles, signs and wonders.
There are currently a billion plus Roman Catholic’s who are devoted to the pope and his pagan church, what do you think is going to happen when one of the future popes begins to perform those miracles, signs and wonders? The devoted will become even more so and all those false christian sects out there will be drawn in to her as well because of the miracles and will be deceived with the rest of the world, becoming apart of that mystery Babylon system. (2 Thes.2:9, Rev.13:13). That false prophet is also the one who is going to force all the inhabitants of the earth to receive that mark in their hand or forhead and why not? After all, he will be performing miraculous signs that only a true man of God could do right? No! They are satanic counterfeit signs (2 Thes.2:9)
Regarding those other groups that call themselves christians, you are correct, many are falling away, but they do not represent me and that because what they do has nothing to do with my relationship with God the Father and my Lord Jesus. They will be accountable before God for their support of same-sex life styles, for marrying men to men and woman to woman, as well as their support of sexual immorality. Make no mistake, I am not decieved, but I am doing what the Lord said and being like that good man of the house who if he had know at what time the thief was going to break in he would have stayed up and watched. And Since I don’t know at what time the thief is going to break in, I continue to watch and anticipate the Lord’s appearing to gather us and to take us back to the Father’s house.
This that you have quoted:
“For they believed not the truth, so God sends them a strong delusion so that they would believe the lie.”
The strong delusion that you quoted is for those who will believe the counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders described in 2 Thes.2:9 and therefore would be specifically for those people who will be witnessing those counterfiet miracles of that time. This a perfect example of taking Scripture out of context and using it for other means. The strong delusion is that the people of that time will believe the lie which are those miracles, signs and wonders being perfomred by the false prophet on behalf (for his purpose) the beast.
“All Scripture is God-Breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness. So that the man of God may be thoroughly equiped for every good work.”
This means that those who have the Holy Spirit can know what the word of God is saying as he reveals it and has nothing to do with the revelation of the ark of the covenant as you suggested. The word of God is here to be studied and understood by anyone who has received his Son and is seeking him.
Don,
Quiet amusing & since you have filled up most of the Prophecy by your own words except it be the words said by Pseudo Christs for a long time, there is not much space left for the truth of the Prophecy to be further told. However your ignorance clearly shows with respect to the Arc of the Covenant that which Apostle John in revelations saw in the temple in Heaven which is to the original Covenant, stated by Jesus as the New Covenant which revelation is to His words of the manner ” You know not The Father or the Son, except them unto whom the Son pleases to reveal” It is not we who chose him but He who chooses us ,again in His words to the Samaritans “We know whom we worship but ye know not whom ye worship”.
Abey,
The truth of the matter is that everything that I listed regarding Roman Catholicism is historical fact and can be proven by their own dogma, that is, those things mentioned are listed in their own law of cannon. Now, for the record, I am aware that the Ark of the Covenant that God gave Moses was a copy of the original in heaven mentioned in Rev.11:19, but I have no idea why you insist on bringing it up. Even if a person didn’t know of its existance, no where in Scripture are we required to confess that there is an Ark of the Covenent in order to obtain salvation. Acknowledging the Ark of the Covenant is not a recquirement for having the indwelling of the Holy Spirit or having fellowship with the Father and the Son. The covenant made with us is through the blood of the Lord Jesus who sits at the right hand of the Father, for he said,
“This is my blood of the new covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.”
Therefore, it is by the shed blood of Christ that the covenant has been made. Furthermore, the Ark of the Covenant is not a requirement for understanding Scripture, since the Lord reveals his word to those who belong to him and diligently seek him.
Never was the name Israel given unto a land but to a people as an inheritance unto God off earth, like the Elohim in heaven, the Sons of God
unto names like GabriEl, MichaEL, RafaEl,etc, even unto SatanEl, the fallen one, for even he too attended the meeting along with the Sons of God as in Ch. Job. Tempting & accusing is His work, to prove our unworthiness to God. Your so called Historical & not Biblical facts regarding the Catholic Church arise out of his deceit, the god of this world is the god of Freemasons in the freemasonry deceit , they who so much hate the Catholic Church, which is one of the Seven Churches established by Christ & to its corrections in whatever faults comes from the Council of Christ, that is if you understand as to what it is to stand before the His Council- The wonderful Councellor. For all its faults the Catholic Church has its fundamentals right, like in a Mathematical Equation the answer is obtained as long as its Principal is right for its clerical errors if there be any are subject to corrections to the correct answer. But if the Principal is wrong no amount of Clerical corrections would give the desired answer. My understanding comes off the revelation of the Covenant as also to Freemasonry & its initiations condemned off the most high, again Biblically to the words in Zechariah Ch 5 to the curses from God, the Flying Scroll & the wickedness sealed in an Ephah, where in the former the measurement of the portico of Solomon, where the law used to be read out, today spiritually it is to the portico of the Obama house where is read out the ‘Leavened laws” even unto the measurement of Washington DC. Freemasonry indeed. Now the latter, the wickedness who is established upon her own pedestral denotes that statue of Liberty again freemasonry indeed with a cup exchanged for a torch, fools no one , the gay liberty that which is to the flesh but to Spiritual enslavement to the ‘Cry of Sodom” to utter destruction until the day which is to be of end time Babylon- founded on Principal errors, uncorrectable to that Harlot city New York one of the three division of Babylon, the commercial one where the harlot stands where there is nothing that is not traded even unto the souls of men. Herein Don, I present you your Vatican, how you have been deceived all along.
abey of Septt 19, I do not come into this to discuss who is Babylonb etc, but to correct your words about the Catholic church in error and heresy teaching millions to pray to idols and saints and who has put the statue of Jupiter St Peters Basilca and called it St Peter and millions kiss its feet and the scripture says you shall not make unto yourself graven images. The Catholic church wrote the scriptures in latin and outlawed any but priests and monarchy and elite to read scripture or to have a bible and only in latin at point of death while slaughtering its millions for a thousand year rule of the papal whores while insisting that the pope is the mediator on earth between earth and Christ in heavan.
NO you abey are the one not acquainted with the facts because the scriptures say we are not to make or pray to any idols graven images and that is the heresy and only one of them taught by Catholicism. I was born into a Catholic family and rejected the evils of this pagan and heretical Christian church to follow the Lord exactly as the scriptures tell us and to obey His commandments all my life after when learning the truth of Catholicism.
A hideous horned nature spirit is found on a sacred reliquary, among the most sacred items in the Vatican treasury, beneath St. Peter’s Basilica.
The mystic cult of Mary or mother worship was nowhere found in the early church of the apostles and early Christians but was adoped by the Roman church in the 4th century and the idols, graven images abound in all Catholic churches and homes. One of the prayers on our rosaries we are taught to pray to Mary which is heretically called the mother of God as if God would have one of His creation as HIs mother is sad and absurd. The heresies of the Catholic church which is a fallen Christian faith are so many that it would be absurd to fill these pages with them but it is a church in great heresy and idolotry
The Popes mitre is from the fertility fish god Dagon. The hand of Jupiter with its occult blessing hand with two fingers up is on the statue of Jupiter, now renamed St Peter are but a few of the Satanic hand signs, symbolic of occult powers that appear in the Roman Church on statues, paintings and throughout the priesthood.
The Pope carries a pine cone mounted on his staff.The largest pine cone in the world, in the Court of the Pine Cone, at the Vatican, Rome.Dionysus, the Greek god, carries the pine cone staff as a fertility symbol. Pine cones and pine cone staffs are on pagan statues and art as symbols of fertility and regeneration.The pine cone staff is a symbol of the solar god Osiris just another and they all represent the fertility gods of pagans.
The Pope always displays his mitre, a fish head open and pagan staff publicly. It is one of the most visible evidences that sun worshiop has continued under the name of Christianity.
Yes the Catholic Church is a Christian church in terrible heresy and full of pagan rituals, idols and deities of so many other religions that it is hard to call it Christian with its pagan prayer beads to its Krishna, with golden halo behind the head. The halo is common on Buddhist and Hindu statues and found on all idolotrous statues in Catholic Christiandom.
The copies of paganism abound in the Catholic Church and their adherants homes But I do not think that this is Babylon but I do suspect that it, with the western countries that came out of her and plays the whore with Islam today, is the whore that rides upon the back of the beast Islam today to get the oil and whatever other services they may from the Beast of Islam.It is a marriage made in hell and has Satan the dragon and his minions of prinicipalities and powers on high as their dictators.
Millions of Christian dissidents were killed by the Catholic church for having a bible or learning to read or refusing to accept these pagan beliefs of Catholic Rome and its thousand year rule of darkness. It is the martyrs of old who brought the bible back to the people for whom it was written and given by God and this no thanks to Catholicism who forbad it written in Hebrew or Greek the original texts.
Well said, Marie Jean! I couldn’t agree more. Just as Catholicism renamed the plethera of god’s that were worshiped and applied them to the saints, they did the same thing with Mary and Jesus. This is known as mother and son worship which took on different names at different times and locations, such as Simeramis and Tamuz and Isis and Horus. It is not the true Mary and Jesus that are in view, but is representing that mother and son worship that stemmed out of Babylon. Catholicism also refers to Mary as “Queen of Heaven,” which is exactly what Israel was rebuked for by God when the woman were making cakes to the “Queen of Heaven” found in Jerimah 7:18. Or where God is showing Ezekial the women of Israel weeping for Tamuz . I also agree about the Mitre hat that the pope wears, which is also a practice that stems from Babylon. If you have never read the book titled “The Woman Who Rides the Beast” by Dave Hunt, I would highly recoment it. For he lists all of the historical facts from Catholicism’s beginning, as well as the historical acts of the succession of popes, with their envolvement in the inquisitions, the Ustashi, Hitler and many others.
The popes claim that they are the successors of Peter, but after going over this information, you rellize that they are the successors of the Roman Emporers, even taking on the title of Pontifeix Maximus and their demand for supreme rule.
Thanks be to God that you are no longer apart of that system. It is always uplifting to see that someone else sees the same thing. Just a curory understanding of Roman Catholicism is enought to show that she is not of Christ.
Yes I thank God for revealing His truth to me as a young woman and taking me out of the idolatry of Roman Catholicism, but, much of Christendom and the world is tainted by its teachings also though I now think of myself of in fact a part of the Protesting Church of God that has brought the Pecious Word of God, the Bible back to the people.
We have always thought of the seven continents as the seven hills which is a broader view of scripture for have not all sinned under the false Babylon or false religions of the world? I realize that there are many who teach of the seven hills of Rome as that, but I do not think I can ever view it that way again for the false religions are contained in each other and it is a curiosity that the Assyrian Cylinder Seal with the sun resting on a crescent-shaped monstrance, the solar deity (Baal-Hadad), also has a disk in a crescent, heraldry crescent crosses, templar revelation of Isis and Osiris and their crescent crosses,, male female, Unitied Nations use of the Crescent and Sun worship signs as well and being taken over by Islam the Crescent worshipping symbol of old astoreth and baal with the birth of the sun in the crescent or star in crescent, the Satan worship of male and female, and the Catholic church with the cresent in the sun shape in the monstrance in which the host is placed representing the sun and most terrible fact is they are all the same worship passed down through the ages and all, even the UN, contain the worship of the crescent and sun curiously in one form or another. crescent and star or crescent and sun often found with mary statues and icons are found throughout the Catholic church, Islam, UN, Hinduism so many religions that our eyes should open to see what all of this truly means and the gods of the ages that have passed down with Satans help, the worship and deceptions of the ages continually, and they are all the same and found in all which should make us all think twice before ignoring it. So much in Catholicism with all its carvings, idols, statues is totally pagan and laying claim to Rev 12: 1 with their Mary and the cresent and rising sun and crescent moon so many ignore this warning and commandment.
2 I am Jehovah thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee a graven image, nor any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them, for I Jehovah thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, upon the third and upon the fourth generation of them that hate me,
6 and showing lovingkindness unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.
7 Thou shalt not take the name of Jehovah thy God in vain; for Jehovah will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
In case you do not know the Catholic Mary with the crescent moon on her head and on the Catholic eucharist has not changed since the Babylonians and Assyrians and Egyptions and Hindus and so many others worshipped the same as Catholicism and Islam do today so it is no surprize that the one should ride the other since they are all together in this same as you pointed out in Jeremiah 44 and Ezekiel 8 where the Hebrews refused to stop worshipping the queen of heavan and its same paraphenalia used today.And yes it is true that the lady in the harbour is in fact the goddes Ishtar or Ashtarte and it seems no one over the Seven Continents are innocent of this worship…hmmm?
Abey, I see that you are like one of those who likes to sound spiritual. You ignore Scripture and have been taught by false teachers. When you ignore Scripture, then you can interpret the word of God anyway that you like, which is exactly what you are doing. Regarding what you said:
“For all its faults the Catholic Church has its fundamentals right,”
Let’s forget about the Vatican with her religious system as being the woman who rides the beast for a moment and just focus on her in regards to being of Christ. Roman Catholicism doesn’t even believe that Jesus paid the price for all sin, and by doing so they deny the very Lord who bought them. To teach that Jesus only paid the price for original sin and that any sins committed after baptism must be settled by a priest through the sacraments, is dishonoring the Lord who shed his blood for us. This belief alone, without all the other pagan practices and traditions that are found within her, disqualifies the Roman Catholic institution as being the Church of Christ. Just that one alone! She is paganism wearing Christian clothing. If you can’t see that, then you are deceived like the billion plus who are currently following her, as well as the Evengelicals who are supporting her.
Furthermore, most of the mystery Babylonian practices and rituals can be found within her. If you don’t understand who she is and are in support of her now, then you will also be deceived when one of her future popes begins to perform those miracles, signs and wonders. So, since you believe that you have the truth and that I don’t know what I am talking about, let this be a sign to you: When you hear on the news of someone making a seven year covenant with Israel and most likely Islam, which will allow Israel to rebuild her temple and begin sacrifices and offerings as perscribed in the Law of Moses, and when you see the pope of that time become that beasts right hand man and the world spiritual leader and who will also begin performing those miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down out of heaven in full view of the inhabitants of the earth, then you can recognize these two individuals as the beast and the false prophet respectively.
God is going to put it into the hearts of the beast and ten kings to hate her and once he has used that false religious system for his purpose, then they will destroy her headquarters with fire, so that no one can ever inhabit that city again (Rev.18:20-24). Also, the woman cannot be America or New York, for the verse says:
“The woman you saw [is that] great [city] that [rules] over the kings of the earth.”
The words “Is that” and “Rules” is in the present tense from John’s time frame and America didn’t exist as a nation at that time. Rome was that city that ruled over the kings of the earth and I don’t have to prove that because it is a historcal and biblical fact! And Rome with her pagan system will rule again once this the man of lawlessness, that antichrist makes his appearance on the stage of history. You don’t have to argue about it, just watch and when see these things, then you will know that what I said was the truth. But I fear that, if you don’t recognize her now and are in support of her, then you won’t recognize her then either and will be decieved with the rest of the world.
It is amazing to me, that you proclaim to be a Christian, but at the same time you support a system that doesn’t believe in the Lord’s full sacrifice for sin, who believes that all grace comes through Mary and when they partake of the Eucharist that they are literally eating the flesh and blood of the Lord each and every time. And consequently, in their code of cannon they also say that if anyone says that you are not believing that Christ actually comes down into the Eucharist and that you are not eating his literal flesh and blood, then let him be an anathema (cursed). All I can say is, let’s watch and see, for the fulfillment of prophecy will reveal the truth.
And just for the record, the city of New York does not sit on seven hills or seven mountains. It’s completely flat! So again, you are ignoring Scripture.
For the record though Don, the statue of Liberty in the Harbour, like Catholicism and most mother worship religions that go back to ancient days that worshipped the same is the same goddess. As a matter of fact….
So how is Isis as a symbol used today? While finding an actual statue of Isis may not be as easy as finding the “all seeing eye,” goddess symbols are prevalent throughout America. The great seal of Virginia features the Roman goddess Virtus. The Statue of Liberty is a goddess representation, with her sun-ray spikes an allusion to the headgear of the Colossus of Rhodes, a monument to the Sun-God Helios (interestingly, Auguste Bertholdi, the creator of the Statue of Liberty, was seeking a commission to construct a giant Isis statue holding a torch overlooking the Suez Canal). From the goddess atop the downtown Indianapolis circle monument to the embossed goddess figures upon state and provincial legislative buildings, goddess symbols are well rooted within modern America. And now a group of New Agers has started the “Goddess 2000 Project,” which seeks to have a goddess statue or other depiction “on every block.”
Internationally, the Fellowship of Isis–an organization “dedicated to honoring the religion of the Goddess in Her many forms”–has chapters across Germany, the United Kingdom, and the US. It’s global headquarters is located in Clonegal Castle, Ireland. Presently, the Fellowship of Isis offers an entire program of correspondence studies, rites, rituals, prayers and degrees to those wishing to advance within the goddess mystery religions.
Curiously enough Don even the male dominated Islam has its crescent contained in all of the above often with its star and at the heart of all these abominations to God is no different than all these religions since earth began except it is more violent and I am sure the blood shed by its violence must be reaching the horse bridle. Pity it all is, but Abey is not versed in the truth of Catholicism either.
Marie Jean,
Good information. I never thought about the 7 hills being the 7 continents. You may very well be right and that would pretty much cover everyone on the globe. No excuses ther!. The Key of David will be necessary in the last days we are in to discern truth from the error that has plagued Yah’s people for so long.
Hello all,
Yes, I agree with you regarding the presence of idols worldwide. For example, there are three Obelisks that were originally erected in the Egyptian city of Heliopolis on the orders of Thutmose III, around 1450 BC. Two, which are a pair that came from the same site are located in London and New York and the other is in Paris which came from a different site. I previously mentioned the obelisk that sits in the middle of St. Peter’s square, which originally stood in Heliopolis, Egypt, where it was built by the Pharaoh Mencares in 1835 BC in honor of the sun and was brought to Rome in 37 BC by the Emperor Caligula (37-41) and erected in the circus he built. Then, in 1586 A.D. Pope Sixtus V had it moved to the center of St. Peter’s Square. They claim that it is a symbol of humanity reaching out to Christ. What a lie! They can make up whatever story they want, but it is a blasphemous thing to have an Egyptian idol used for sun worship sitting in the entrance to the so-called mother church of Christ!
However, in regards to the seven hills being seven continents, I disagree, for the Scripture is clear:
“The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits.”
Rome was literally built on seven hills for which she is famous for. This is the headquarters for that false religious system where the woman sits.
“The woman you saw is the great city that rules over the kings of the earth.”
During the time that John received this information from the angel, Rome was without a doubt that great city that ruled over the kings of the earth. Therefore, I have to stick with the Scripture in order to identify her. The other problem that I have with Islam being the woman who rides the beast is that the woman is called “The Great Prostitute” and that she has committed spiritual adultery. When Israel turned to worship the god’s of the people around them, it was said that they went a whoring after other god’s, committing spiritual adultery. In order for Israel to commit this, they had to be married to God. Islam does not believe in the same god as Judaism and Christianity and therefore were never God’s people to be able to commit spiritual adultery against him. Their Koran is merely a book written by men and is not God-breathed. Rome on the otherhand orginally belonged to God through Christ as we can see from the letter that Paul wrote to them of the same name. When Constantine had his vision and made Christianity the official religion of Rome, the pantheon of god’s, the rituals and cermonialism that stemmed from the mystery Babylon religions was transferred over into this scewed line of Christianity. The god’s where renamed with the names of the saints, the pagan celebrations were given Christian names and we see the mother and son worship transferred over to Mary and Jesus and many other such things such as the Mitre hat that originated with the worship of Dagon that we previously mentioned.
I believe that it is Rome with her adulterous copy of christianity that is the woman who rides the beast. I believe that one of the future popes is going to play the part of the beast that comes up out of the earth, later referred to as the false prophet, and he is the one that is going to be performing those miraculous, signs and wonders, with which he will deceive the inhabitants of the earth. This false prophet being one of the future popes and him being the beast’s right hand man, will mean that the beast through the false prophet will have in his hip pocked all that are devoted to that mystery Babylon system and that because the head of Roman Catholicism, the pope, will be supporting that man of lawlessness, the beast.
“The waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages.”
The peoples, multitudes, nations and laguages, represents the influence and presence of her pagan religious system over the entire earth.
I mentioned this in an earlier post, but I highly recomend the book by Dave Hunt called, “The Woman Who Rides the Beast” The Roman Catholic Chuch and the Last Days. Dave Hunt really did his homework and lists an amazing amount of historical information regarding the inception of Roman Catholicism, her popes, thier papal bulls, their dogmas, the inquisitions and so much more.
The popes of Roman Catholicism ruled over kings and their kingdoms for centuries and this is still their goal today. Here is an exerpt from that book describing an inscription on the tiara of Pope Pius IX:
“The crown is the is the symbol of the sovereignty of the papacy…. The tiara is adorned with pearls and precious gems and is inscribed in Latin, which translates as: ‘To the infallible Vicar of Christ; To the Supreme Governor of the world on earth; To the father of Nations and Kings.’ ”
This Pius IX is the same pope who in 1870, put into Dogma the Infallibility of the pope’s.
In any case, even without this other information, I have always known that Rome/Vatican with her pagan christian system was that woman, but to each his own. We will just have wait and see. And the beast will be revealed when the world sees the one who makes the covenant for one ‘seven’ allowing Israel to rebuild her temple and begin sacrifices and offeringsbeast and the false prophet will be the one who performs those miraculous signs on the beasts behalfj. God and his prophet, albeit both false. Anyway, check that book. You will be amazed with the information contained in it.
Yours in Christ
maybe Islam is the 1st beast, and Rome rides her as the false prophet ( 2nd beast)
Eventually islam willl kill the church of rome, as it hates her, according to revelation.
1. The Caspian Sea;
2. The Black Sea;
3. The Mediterranean Sea;
4. The Red Sea;
5. The Persian Gulf;
6. The Gulf of Oman;
7. The Arabian Sea; and,
8. The Gulf of Aden.
2. Revelation 17:9 tells us: “And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.”
Rome doesn’t have any mountains. It sits on seven hills, not mountains. However, “Mecca” sits on both 7 mountains AND 7 hills! The 7 mountains are:
1. Jabal Quba;
2. Jabal al Qinna;
3. Jabal Li Aali;
4. Jabal Jifan;
5. Jabal Jijad;
6. Jabal Qubais; and,
7. Jabal Hindi.
The 7 hills that Mecca sits on are:
1. Jabal abu Siba;
2. Jabal Safa;
3. Jabal Marwah;
4. Jabal abu Milhah;
5. Jabal abu Ma’aya;
6. Jabal abu Hulayah; and,
7. Jabal abu Ghuztan.
Did you know that Catholicism killed more than WWI and WWII put together but Islam slaughtered 400 million in India alone and hundreds of millions in the rest of the world since its 1400 year inception and Christians and Jews were the Saints they have and do seek to irradicate from off the earth to this very day. The Byzantine -Christian world or Cradle of Christianity is Islam today and the first part they have lost is Israel in 1948 and Jerusalem in 1967. Rome does not fit any of this criteria as does Islam.
When Israel took control over that part of Jerusalem after the Six-Day War in 1967, Israeli leaders allowed an Islamic religious trust to have authority over the Temple Mount and the Dome of the Rock as a way of helping keep the peace.
Since that time non-Muslims have been allowed limited access to the area but are not permitted to pray on the Temple Mount.
Sorry I had trouble getting this in but the portion above begins with the seas.
“Mecca” is actually the “only” city that I know of that fulfills this entire prophecy. The truth is that Rome doesn’t fit this prophecy at all.
1. Daniel 11:45 tells us: “And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas (PLURAL) in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him. ”
Rome sits on “one” sea, that being the Mediterranean; not many “seas” as Daniel 11:45 states.
“Mecca” sits right in the middle of Saudi Arabia and Israel (the “beautiful holy mountain”) AND on “many waters” and “many seas” as follows:
1. The Caspian Sea;
2. The Black Sea;
3. The Mediterranean Sea;
4. The Red Sea;
5. The Persian Gulf;
6. The Gulf of Oman;
7. The Arabian Sea; and,
8. The Gulf of Aden.
Both Islam and the west offer their children up to the sacrifice of their children in suicide bombers and endless war of the irradication of the infidel, Christians and Jews for 1400 years and the slaughter of the unborn but nothing and no one has come close to the many hundreds of millions by Islam and I think Marianne quoted 270 millions of Christians alone. An estimated death of about 120 million people. Islam ran the wholesale slave trade in Africa. 120 million Africans killed by Arab Muslim slave traders let alone the hundreds of millions they sold to the world.
WWI and WWII killed 15 million and 60 million which is the estimate of 75 million that Catholicism killed and yet the numbers by Islam so surpass the slaughters of the rest of the world by many hundreds of millions that it is heartbreaking to say the least.
1. In Daniel 9:11, the word “curse” in that verse means “‘alah”. Even though there are many different Hebrew words that “could” have been used for the word “curse”, God chose to use “this particular word” in “this particular verse”. I don’t know, I think He’s trying to tell us something there.
2. The english word “Islam” translated into Hebrew makes two words – “Ai Sulam” – which means “ladder to ruin”. Kind of interesting.
3. Look at Islams fruits! Does ANY other nation of people in this world today “teach their children to grow up to blow themselves up in order to murder other people” in the name of “religion”?
The difference is that the Bible did not tell the Catholic Church to MURDER Christians and Jews. But the Quran does teach its followers to kill unbelievers, especially Jews and Christians.
Islam is the most dangerous Theo-political-legal system in the world. It seeks to convert or destroy the entire world.
4. The Hebrew word for “violence” is “hamas”.
In the old testament God asked Israel to wipe out certain people /Tribes fully but they did not & the result is clearly seen today Spiritually called “Sodom & Egypt” Prophesied , where Sodom is the U.S. today & Egypt is to Freemasonry its ancient hidden belief but to Hinduism & the new agers from the depths of hell. The way of the Infidel.. As for the freemasonry statue of liberty presented by France at New York beaconing the weary, poor etc across the seven continents but in her is found the cup of fornication filled with the blood of her own millions aborted, makes her to be The thief & the lier she is, which is but the old whore of Babylon. To this the Queen of England awaits her coronation. There are over hundred O.T prophesies which the Prophets of Babylon convinently hide signifying New York & America as the end time Babylon & any body seeing the leavened laws coming out of her against the word of God can have no doubt about her, slated to receive the cup of the Wrath of God without mix, so Come out of her.
america has done more good than any other country, so if you do not like it, you do not have to live here. it is good you live somewhere else.
Your brain is full of crap.
God told the Israelites to wipe out the canaannites and they failed. The real result of this failure is seen today in the savage pagan palestinians whose greed, hate and murder are going to cause enough outrage to start a third world war.
babylon is babylon……the region is still corrupt, and full of violence and savages. God’s prophecies are clear what will happen to the entire middle east when his judgments come in the final hours. No one will survive.
maybe if the israelites had done their job, we would not see islamic terrorism today, which is threatening the peace of the entire world.
Did you see the info Al on the 7 hills and 7 mountains that Mecca sits on? That absolutely blew us away.
Marie Jean,
Yes, I read the information. It acutally all makes sense. This all started out with two brothers (Cain and Abel), with the younger receving the blessing over the elder, which lead to the bloodshed of the younger brother. So has it been through the history of Israel, and so shall it be at the end. Half brothers (Isaac and Ishmael; Jacob and Esau (Edom)) struggling for the birthright, with Israel receiving their inheritance at the end, though through much pain and hurt. It is the main- broad theme of the scriptures from the first word to the last, that the Chrisitian Church tends to mimize in favor of an Orthodox (Rome) and Protestant struggle, waiting for the day when Israel will kneel at a Christian Gentile altar. The truth is,the gentile church is gathered and made one with Israel in the land of Israel, coming out of her Babylonian roots: Come out of her, My people!
I do enjoy your posts. I love all my Christian brothers and sisters, but It is good to have a kindred spirit here.
Be Blessed my Sister
I believe you have put the right light on this Al. This pattern has followed mankind, specifically Israel, throughout history with the despising of Abel, Israel, etc. Satan despising the Lords children and specifically, Israel. It is a broader application you have applied here which is far greater than we had put together. So much appreciate your sharing here. This is true and fits so much more.
God bless you
Seven mountains are seven large land masses raised above the sea level, which are the seven continents., upon which the whore sits, Babylon is divided into 3 parts (from where comes out the 3 foul breathing frogs) to its Commercial, Political & Spiritual – New York(Spiritual Sodom)-London(the mother of the Harlots)- Bombay ( the seat of satan – The present day seat of Paganism-India-Spiritual Egypt)), all three being sea ports & incidentally the three major places where terrorist struck to a sign) as the Bible says God brings Good & Evil in this case evil against wickedness in one word- Infidels who Engineered these attacks have brought the sign upon their own heads) to the one that restrains, unrestrains itself through the Complaceny & Apostasy of its own Prophets, the Prophets of America to reveal the man of Sin, Son of perdition, America is that man, for that which is named after a man, the Mystery of Iniquity. in the Pride. What else do you expect of a country become complacent to Sodom, breeding & exporting that pinnacle of sin the iniquity , sin is the Lawlessness , for there never was any Sin so utterly destroyed like Sodom. History it seems has not been learnt & believed. Rejoice not at falseness for neither Napoleon or Arthur & his magician would be able to escape ‘Him” that comes against Spiritual Sodom & Egypt to the believes of Ancient Egypt in deceiving bottles. Babylon (B L N) is fallen, is fallen- the second(B L N) & final fall- for good.
Abey, why do you deliberately continue to ignore Scripture?
You said:
“Seven mountains are seven large land masses raised above the sea level, which are the seven continents., upon which the whore sits”
Where the word of God says:
“The [woman] you saw is the great [city] that rules over the kings of the earth.”
So tell us, if the word of God says that the [woman] is a [city]j that sits on seven hills, how is it that you call them seven continents? And if that woman who is symbolic for that city that rules over the kings of the earth, how can you say that it represents seven continents? For if we apply the seven heads as representing seven continents, then it would be seven continents that would be ruling over the kings of the earth, which would be absurd because seven continents would include all rulers of every nation on the face of the whole earth.
Also, you said that, America is that man of sin, that man of lawlessness. But the word of God is clear in that that antichrist is that angel that comes up out of the Abyss whose name in Hebrew is Abaddon and in Greek Apollyon both meaning [Destroyer]. He is the same individual who kills the two witnesses after he comes up out of the Abyss. Further, it is said in Rev.19:20 that this beast along with the false prophet are both thrown alive into the lake of fire when Jesus returns to the earth to set up his millennial kingdom. That beast is cleary identified as an individual person and not as America. For your claim to be true, it would be America that Jesus was having thown into the lake of fire, yet the Scipture refers to two individuals.
Something else that you quoted falsely from Scripture is that you said,
“Babylon is divided into 3 parts (from where comes out the 3 foul breathing frogs)”
Yet regarding these Frog/Spirits, the word of God says:
“Then I saw three evil spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet. They are spirits of demons performing miraculous signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty.”
Clearly John sees these evil spirits coming out of the mouths of the dragon, the beast and the false prophet to gather the kings of the earth to the battle of Armegeddon and not out of Babylon!
We must stick with Scripture and therefore, the woman is said to be a [city] and she sits on seven hills. At the time that John was receiving this information from the angel, the city that ruled over the kings of the earth, was undeniably Rome. Rome with her pagan Christian system is claiming to be the church of Christ, but she is a prostitute, committing adultery against God with all of her mystery Babylonian rites, rituals and traditions. Rome/Vatican with her false christian system is that woman who sits on seven hills and who ruled over the kings of the earth and will again rule over the world in the near future being alied with the beast who will be proclaiming to be God or anything that is called God.
Stay with Scripture and stop deviating from it!
Hello good people.
I was in prayer today and a realization came to me. “America is the restrainer!” In a flash it all made sense. I have been doing some prayerful research and studying about the endtimes for quite some while. And I have come to the conclusion that Jesus is coming back soon. I googled to find out more about this realization. I found this site.
I believe that the Al Mahdi to come will be one of the beasts of Revelation and the other beast caled the False Prophet will be the Islamic “Jesus” called Isa the Messiah. The Two Witnesses or at least one of the them will be the prophesied Islamic Anti-Christ Ad Dajjal. If you are interested in the possible great coming deception the below website goes into great detail about this perspective.
http://al-mahdi.atspace.com/al-mahdi.html
So it is obvious to me if this scenario is correct and that the coming reorganized Caliphate will be the empire of the Beast. (Islam is clearly of the Anti-Christ spirit.) So the Al-Mahdi or perhaps Isa the Messiah (Muslim Jesus) is the man of perdition. My bet is Al-Mahdi since he seems to be in charge. I think there is a spiritual restrainer and a political/government restrainer prevent the raise of the Anti-Christ/Beast/Al-Mahdi/Caliphate Empire. I do believe that that government/political structure is headed by the USA and its allies. What I feel led to share with you is according to scripture how is America taken out of the picture. This might sound far fetched but many people see a comet/asteroid collision in Revelation. This destroys America and a third of the Earth. After that event the world as we know it is gone. What would be impossible before this event is now made possible. Islam will see this as an Act of Allah even judgement of the Great Satan. Then the Beast or so called Anti-Christ will arise no longer restrained. This link goes into better detail.
http://www.be-ready.org/fire.html
Also as a bonus I will give you a spiritual gift.
In the coming Great Tribulation it will be vital to “get a prayer through.”
This is the key. Belief + Understanding of the Word of God = Faith to Move Mountains. The truth that sets you free is the Name of God/Yahweh (the Light) the totality of what God is. This is God’s Character and it is given to us as a gift. this gift is Grace. Communicated Grace it is the Word of God and Spirit of Christ. In progressives steps it is the Way. In its entirety… The Truth. In its understanding Life and fellowship with the being called God. This is the liberty of the spirit and not the bondage of empty religious performance. The two witnesses will be temples of the Name of Yahweh. Mere Christians. Any Christian can do similar works if the understand who’s work it is. They are merely Products of the Name of the Way to the Father. Yeshua (Yahweh Saves.) They walk in the fullness of the Way. This Name. That Jesus said that if anyone one asks the Father in theis Name it will be done. The synergetic Work of the Blood of the Lamb of God is completed in the One Thing Necessary. This is the simplicity of the Good News. The child of God is wiser than the adults of this world. A truthful inner act with the Work of Christ is all that is needed. And few understands and believes.
Let him that have ears hear.
hi Marq
What muslims have failed to understand is that “Isa” is not Jesus, but Esau (Isav). I wondered if Muhammed just got the name wrong, or the name was intentionally given that way.
Esau had an antchrist spirit, as he was the worldly one, and was opposed to Jacob / Israel his brother. He should have had the birthright but it was given to Jacob instead. Doesn’t this sound like the current Palestinian issue? they claim Israel took their land that belonged to them…Esau has never changed his claim.
It seems correct to see the Imam as the antichrist figure, and the “prophet Isa” or Esau proclaiming him as the true messiah.
the whole idea is to “get the birthright back” from Jacob.
marianne
when we say Isa to Jesus we mean adam the first man on earth not esau. Isa is the arabic name of adam. the middle east says Isa to Jesus.
I want to add a few words to what I said. Christians muslims jews in the middle east says Isa. this name has nothing to do with islam. jews in usa says yeshua but jewsin Israel says Isa.
Dear Adam
I don’t know the point you are tryin to make. Yes we know we use sound to represent concepts and they are the basic blocks of language and we call them words. But just because a word has the same sound it doesn’t mean it has the same meaning. And also the opposite is true. How many different languages has different sounds that represent the name of Yeshua. In Latin the sound is different than English and this is different than Spanish a this is different in French… and Chinese and etc. the Isa or Jesus of the Quran is not the same enitity and person as the Jesus in the Bible. Even if some one uses the term “Isa” to refer to the Jesus of the bible because of cultural reason….. it doesn’t change this fact. No matter what sound you use as a descriptive for the earthly name of Yeshua the Jesus of the Bible and the Jesus of the Quran are not the same enitity. One the Bible is the Son of Yahweh and God incarnate. The other is only a prophet and explicitly not the Son of Allah nor the Lamb of God for he did not die for the sins of the whole world on the Cross….. (According to what the Quran teaches.) Again I refer to the this excellent website that goes into detail about the difference.
http://al-mahdi.atspace.com/isa.html
Jesus or “Isa” is also called the second Adam. By your words “Of the two witnesses of God one of them —-” you show the witness of God in the negative . Is this from one of those Prosperity preachers or from ‘”freemasons” to their secretive gods of Hinduism coming in names like two Prophets . org who like Herod speak/search & wait in deceit.
abey
the phrase
“of the two witnesses of god one of them ”
does not appear on this page.
who are you talking to?
Look around to find the god(s) “To the Principalities & Powers — wickedness in heavenly like places” , Look into the Bible & you will know about God of whom is said “The heaven of heavens cannot contain Him” whose Witnesses Prophesied to come known as” the two witnesses of God ” about which is my comment to Marq’s “sudden realizations” dated Feb 4 2013 @8.06 AM..
To all,
I read these words, spoken by the Speaker of the House of Representatives (second in the United States presidential line of succession), as a classic example of a sovereign nation addressing an international issue as “the restrainer”. These words were spoken before any debate or a vote was taken by either house of Congress. His comments were made after speaking with the President of the United States.
“The use of these weapons has to be responded to and only the United States has the capability and capacity to stop Assad and to warn others around the world that this type of behavior is not going to be tolerated,” said Boehner after meeting with Obama.
“…This is something that the United States as a country needs to do. I’m going to support the president’s call for action. I believe my colleagues should support this call for action.
We have enemies around the world that need to understand that we’re not going to tolerate this type of behavior. We also have allies around the world and allies in the region who also need to know that America will be there and stand up whether it is necessary” (09/03/13, Speaker of the House of Representatives, John Boehner).
Blessings
Psalm 23
That which is off the mind is not off the Spirit, for the Spirit expressively reveals the HARLOT set to impose its errors across, even the gay agendas in the name of Liberty(Zechariah- Wickedness in an Ephah) to population controls & lo to this has god collected a people in His wrath through Freemasonry come off the error of Solomon, so that the Prophesied Abomination of Desolation may be fulfilled, spoken by Daniel to a testimony, for the Testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of Prophecy. Look up the scriptures for the revelation of the Truth, look into the corridors of the flying scroll to see the Prophets of Babylon preach falsely.
[…] America the Restrainer […]
India Reckoner said this on July 8, 2014 at 1:04 am |
America is not mentioned in the Scriptures (by name) but she is described. America is the Harlot of Revelation! The description of that harlot fits no other nation on the earth! America has been judged and will be totally annihilated never to be inhabited again. America is Babylon, the Great Whore. For those who feel “patriotic” please realize that patriotism is a demonic spirit…a very seductive demonic spirit! It will lie to you and make you feel so good about being an American, make your chest swell with pride at the playing of the national anthem at the ball game all the while blinding you to the corruption within. This is the “seduction of the Jezebel spirit” running rampant in our nation today! And, who’s fault is it of America becoming the Great Whore? It lies squarely at the feet of the American Christian Church! It is corrupt and putrid and Yah is spewing it out of His mouth! I know this will make some angry with me but it has to be said!
Shalom,
Daniel
Who can war with the Beast- AMERICA with its Sodomic Character revealed by its courts , the MARKER unto the Prophecy of the “Mark of the Beast” without which can neither buy/sell (Trade) today denoted by the “Economic Sanctions” imposed by the west on Russia stating Ukraine but spiritually ’cause Russia by its Orthodox Church stands against the Sodomic onslaught.. The Marker to be extended on to the whole world even individually to the stated Prophecy.
As for the False Prophet “Freemasonry by Theosophy” Zech 5, is revealed under the topic “Roots of Jezebel” even
As the harlot , decked in riches & royalty ,that rides the Beast is revealed -its religion “PROTESTANTISM”, itself established out of the Harlotry of the then Royal, through rebelling against the Parent Church, as the Beast is now seen trampling upon her, to the prophecy, even unto the words of the Pharaoh “America is not a Christian country,” the fool who thinks Christianity is Protestantism.
Now the important part is as to where all of this lead will lead to —
abey
america has just lost its role as restrainer….now that has been removed, due to sin, the antichrist will be revealed, and all hell will break loose.
As to where all of this will lead to is again to the Prophecy of the Beast, False Prophet & Satan & all that goes with it, falling into the Lake of fire & as a testimony to its truth- the Visionary who in the spirit heard his name being called from a far off to which the Holy Spirit prompts him to head the call, by then one of the Cherubs from the Arc of the Covenant with eyes as of fire, was beside him with a book in hand asking the visionary to look for his name in it, he did find himself in the book, & on the far side stood a lake ” Death still” the prophesied lake of fire for hose whose names are not found in the book- The Lambs book of Life.