144,000 and the 2 Servants

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Do they appear at the same time?        Or different times?

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I define spiritual Israel, which includes all believers as:

Gentile believer in Yeshua (Jesus)

Jewish believer in Yeshua (Jesus)

144,000 who are sealed

Remnant -natural unbelieving Israel, who will eventually become saved, and be part of spiritual Israel.

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144,000

First fruits means there is more to come, so there is more to be saved….which increases the size of Spiritual Israel during troubled times.

See The 144,000 and the rest of the Jews

They are sealed in Rev 7: 3-4, and seem to be a part of the heavenly multitude in the same chapter. By Rev 7:14, the great tribulation is announced as finished.

They are also seen in Rev 14:1, where they follow the Lamb wherever he goes, who happens to be in heaven at that time.

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Sometimes I think REV 7 is a review of REV 6, in which the 144k are sealed before the great tribulation (seals 1-6) happens, so they can witness successfully without harm. 

REV 7 indicates at the end there is a multitude of saints who have gone through the tribulation, and are in heaven. 

This includes most of spiritual Israel, all who have been saved, so far, and the 144,000.

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I think the 144k are the first fruits of those Jews who accept Yeshua before the 6th seal.

This group gets taken up before or at the 7th seal.

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** Jesus , Yeshua, states in Matthew 24; 29-30 that his followers will see him again at the 6^th seal:

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Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: (this is the 6^th

seal description)

And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

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Since the feast of first fruits occurs at Pentecost, I assume this is the time of the rapture of this group.

This is in the spring of the year, around May- June.

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2 servants

They show up in Rev 11:3, and it is stated by then there is a temple, because the worshippers, the religious Jews, but not saved yet, are there in verse 1.

The witnesses preach for 42 months.

The 2 servants seem to come to the unbelieving, yet religious Israel who still worship at the temple which has been now built, trying to get the last remnant into the fold.

This group gets taken up before or at the 7th trumpet after the earthquake in Jerusalem. Rev 11:13

Once it states “the kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our God”… we then see the 24 elders and the temple in heaven.

Everything is over for the believers who are now ALL in heaven.

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The woman and the 2 groups

I always wondered why, in REV 12, the woman was mentioned twice.

I think it refers to the 2 groups of saved Jews (along with Christians) who will be taken up. 

One group goes with the 144k and the other group goes with the 2 servants.

The book of Revelation is hard to  understand…even the beast is not mentioned until REV 13, and we know he has to be around before then.

However, a hint is given in Rev 12 where there is a war in heaven, and the dragon is cast to the earth

The woman represents spiritual Israel, but she is collected in 2 groups.

This is why her wilderness experience is described 2 times, because this happens twice.

Once with the main group of believers, and again with the remnant who get saved under the 2 witnesses.

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Timing options

a. 2 groups are taken in 2 different locations but at the same time

There is the world itself, and then there is the situation in Israel.

They could be happening at the same time, but described separately.

Rev 13: 7 sounds like the 5^th seal:

And it was given unto him [dragon] to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Rev 6:9 – 5^th seal

And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:

b. 2 groups are taken at different times

The first group experiences tribulation (seals 1-6), but the second group has to deal with the dragon himself for 42 months as the witnesses preach repentance and the gospel.

To support this view, the witnesses would be preaching to those in the temple, and after they (witnesses) rise from the dead.

It is indicated we are already as far as the second woe, and the 7^th

trumpet sounds.

Rev 11: 12-15

And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.

The second woe is past; [and], behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Option B seems most likely to me.

Here, however, it does not say that the remnant goes up with the witnesses. 

This could happen, or they could be taken up shortly after, or it may be that the remnant is so small that they are gone, and no one notices, because all eyes are on the witnesses.

Anyhow, the 42 months are up.

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Thought

If options a is correct after all, then this means all believers will hear the 2 witnesses from Jerusalem, and all will flee to their own wilderness for 42 months.

All will be attacked by the dragon.

It also means that all believers would be around until the 7th trumpet, instead of being taken earlier.

If this is true, then the 7 seals and the 7 trumpets might be defining the same time period.