Jewish Return to Israel in end times.

israel-flag.jpg

What the scriptures say (just a few of them-more at the end):

Isaiah 43
5
Do not be afraid, for I am with you; I will bring your children from the east and gather you from the west.
6
I will say to the north, `Give them up!’ and to the south, `Do not hold them back.’ Bring my sons from afar and my daughters from the ends of the earth-

In Isaiah 43:5-6, the prophet said that the people of Israel would return to their homeland from the east, the west, the north and the south. Isaiah lived 2700 years ago. Beginning at that time, a succession of empires conquered the land of Israel and forced many into exile. This led to a worldwide scattering of Jews. But, during the past century, millions have returned to Israel.-

Jeremiah 23:3-6
“I myself will gather the remnant of my flock out of all the countries where I have driven them and will bring them back to their pasture, where they will be fruitful and increase in number. I will place shepherds over them who will tend them, and they will no longer be afraid or terrified, nor will any be missing,” declares the Lord. “The days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will raise up to David a righteous Branch, a King who will reign wisely and do what is just and right in the land. In his days Judah will be saved and Israel will live in safety. This is the name by which he will be called: The Lord Our Righteousness.

The “math” idea:

About 8 years ago, I heard an interesting talk about the percent of Jews living in Israel as compared to the percent of Jews still living in the world. He predicted that most Jews would be back in Israel by 2012. I did not know where the person got the data from so I went home and looked up a reference for myself. My apologies here for not listing the correct reference for these graphs. I did not originally document it, which is atypical for me. When I find it, I will add it.

My calculations seem to agree with this original speaker, that if current trend continues, most Jews will return to Israel soon. This is just a math prediction done about 8 years ago. I tried plotting polynomial, log and natural log functions to see which gave the best curve fit. The best fit is in yellow.

If this is really mathematically predictable, and not based on personal decisions of people, then I would think it would imply that God has something to do with this. What an awesome thing – math proof that God is involved with His people !! :)

Since the Jews are very comfortable in America and some other places, it would take something very negative, and tragic, to drive them out. Since 9-11, and the increasing anti-Semitism in America due to Muslim and atheist influences, it may be that the Jews will finally leave and go back to Israel, where God has promised to protect them. This will be a great loss for America, and other countries where they are currently, but a great gain for Israel.

Raw data:

Year

2004

1999

1996

1995

1990

1980

1970

1960

Population (1000s)

6,780.00

6,200.00

5,759.40

5,619.00

4,821.70

3,921.70

3,022.10

2,150.40

%in israel vs world

1882

0

1900

1

1914

1

1925

1

1939

3

1948

6

1955

13

1970

20

1975

23

1980

25

1985

27

1990

30

1995

35

2000

37

2001

38

2005

42

est

2010

47

est

2015

52

est


dx/d%

x

%in israel vs world

x

y

log x

log y

log y

ln x

ln y

0

0

0

1882

0

0

0

1882

1

0.055556

18

1900

1

18

1

1.25527

0

1900

0

2.890372

0

1

0.03125

32

1914

1

32

1

1.50515

0

1914

0

3.465736

0

1

0.023256

43

1925

1

43

1

1.63347

0

1925

0

3.7612

0

3

0.052632

57

1939

3

57

3

1.75587

0.477712

1939

0.477712

4.043051

1.098612

6

0.090909

66

1948

6

66

6

1.81954

0.778151

1948

0.778151

4.189655

1.791759

13

0.178082

73

1955

13

73

13

1.86332

1.113943

1955

1.113943

4.290459

2.564949

20

0.227273

88

1970

20

88

20

1.94448

1.30103

1970

1.30103

4.477337

2.995732

23

0.247312

93

1975

23

93

23

1.96848

1.361728

1975

1.361728

4.532599

3.135494

25

0.255102

98

1980

25

98

25

1.99123

1.39794

1980

1.39794

4.584967

3.218876

27

0.262136

103

1985

27

103

27

2.01284

1.431364

1985

1.431364

4.634729

3.295837

30

0.277778

108

1990

30

108

30

2.03342

1.477121

1990

1.477121

4.682131

3.401197

35

0.309735

113

1995

35

113

35

2.05308

1.544068

1995

1.544068

4.727388

3.555348

37

0.313559

118

2000

37

118

37

2.07188

1.568202

2000

1.568202

4.770685

3.610918

38

0.319328

119

2001

38

119

38

2.07555

1.579784

2001

1.579784

4.779123

3.637586

130

2012

93.5

130

93.5

2.11394

1.878637

2010

1.970812

4.867534

4.537961

jewish-immigration-graphs.jpg

Prediction based on the graph – 93.5% of Jews in the world will end up in Israel by 2012. I wonder how true this will turn out to be……..

Prophesy fulfillment commentaries:

(1) Research and commentary by George and Raymond Konig of www.AboutBibleProphecy.com

From the east: Many Jews living in Middle East countries moved to Israel during the 1900s. After Israel reclaimed independence in 1948, more Jews moved to their ancient homeland after being forced out of various Arab countries in which they had been living for centuries.

From the west: During the mid-1900s, hundreds of thousands of Jews living in the West (Europe and the United States) began moving to Israel to escape various persecutions, most notably, the Holocaust in Nazi Germany.

From the north: Hundreds of thousands of Jews living in the former Soviet Union have moved to Israel since the 1980s.

From the south: During the 1980s and 1990s, Israel struck a deal with Ethiopia’s communist government to allow Jews of Ethiopia to move to Israel. On the weekend of May 25, 1991, for example, 14,500 Ethiopian Jews were airlifted to Israel.

Isaiah’s prophecy was also correct in saying that the north (Russia) and the south (Ethiopia) would have to be persuaded to allow their Jews to move to Israel. Many countries pressured Russia for years before it began to allow its Jews to leave. And Ethiopia had to be paid a ransom to allow its Jews to leave.

Isaiah’s prophecy was also correct in saying that the Jews would return “from the ends of the earth,” and Isaiah said that many centuries before the Jews had been scattered to the ends of the earth. During the past 100 years, Jews living as far east as China, as far west as the West Coast of the United States, as far north as Scandinavia, and as far south as South Africa, Australia and South America, have moved to Israel.

(2) http://100prophecies.org/page9.htm

The Messiah will appear after the Jews return to Israel
Bible passage: Jeremiah 23:3-6
Written: sometime from 626 to about 586 BC
Fulfilled: end times
In Jeremiah 23:3-6, there is a prophecy that indicates when the Messiah is to appear in the land of Israel. Jeremiah said that it would be after the exiled people of Israel return to their homeland. From a Christian point of view, this is of special interest because Jesus is supposed to appear twice. And this coincides with the fact that the people of Israel have been expelled from their homeland twice, and that they are currently in the process of returning after the second expulsion.

More than 2500 years ago, the Assyrians and Babylonians forced the people of Israel out of their homeland. Many returned during the centuries that followed and then Jesus appeared, about 2000 years ago, and announced that he is the Messiah. Later, the people of Israel were again forced out of their land (by the Romans in 135 AD) and scattered to countries throughout the world.

But, during the past few centuries, millions of exiled Jews around the world have returned to their ancient homeland. And this is one of the reasons why Christians say that the world is being prepared for the return of Jesus Christ. Because, as Jeremiah had prophesied long ago, the Messiah is to appear after the people of Israel return to their land.

The phrase, in Jeremiah 23:5, “I will raise up to David a righteous Branch, a King,” refers to the Messiah, and that he will be a king and a descendant of King David, who reigned over Israel about 3000 years ago. Christians believe that when Jesus returns, he will establish a kingdom of peace and righteousness.
- Copyright 100prophecies.org

And the LORD shall scatter you among the nations, and ye shall be left few in number among the heathen, whither the LORD shall lead you. And there ye shall serve gods, the work of men’s hands, wood and stone, which neither see, nor hear, nor eat, nor smell. But if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find [him], if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul. When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, [even] in the latter days, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice; (For the LORD thy God [is] a merciful God;) he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them. Deuteronomy 4:27-31

And it shall come to pass in that day, [that] the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea. And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. Isaiah 11:11-12

For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the LORD: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it. Jeremiah 30:3

For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem, I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and [for] my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land. And they have cast lots for my people; and have given a boy for an harlot, and sold a girl for wine, that they might drink. Joel 3:1-3

In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old: Amos 9:11

For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause [you] to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded. And the desolate land shall be tilled, whereas it lay desolate in the sight of all that passed by. And they shall say, This land that was desolate is become like the garden of Eden; and the waste and desolate and ruined cities [are become] fenced, [and] are inhabited. Ezekiel 36:24,33-35

I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: [but] they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto [that] shame; and [their] abominations were according as they loved. Hosea 9:10

One basket [had] very good figs, [even] like the figs [that are] first ripe: and the other basket [had] very naughty figs, which could not be eaten, they were so bad. Then said the LORD unto me, What seest thou, Jeremiah? And I said, Figs; the good figs, very good; and the evil, very evil, that cannot be eaten, they are so evil. Again the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel; Like these good figs, so will I acknowledge them that are carried away captive of Judah, whom I have sent out of this place into the land of the Chaldeans for [their] good. Jeremiah 24:2-5

The fig tree is used by Hosea and Jeremiah to refer to the Jewish people.

Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer [is] nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, [even] at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Matthew 24:32-34

Israel the fig tree has put forth its leaves and been reborn as a nation therefore the coming of Christ draws near. Luke 21:32 also states that a generation would not pass. A generation is between 70-100 years, Israel was established again on May 15, 1948. Jews are still immigrating back to Israel from nations far and wide, just like the Bible said they would.

What the Quran has to say about Israel and the return to their land (so what are the terrorists thinking ) !!!!

2:47 Children of Israel! call to mind the favour which I bestowed upon you, and that I preferred you to all other nations. 2:122 O Children of Israel! call to mind the favor which I bestowed upon you, and that I preferred you to all other nations. 7:137 And We made the children of Israel, who were considered weak (and of no account), inheritors of lands in both east and west, – lands whereon We sent down Our blessings. The fair promise of thy Lord was fulfilled for the Children of Israel, because they had patience and constancy, and We leveled to the ground the great works and fine
buildings which Pharaoh and his people erected (with such pride). 17:104 And We said thereafter to the Children of Israel, “Dwell securely in the land of promise”:
10:93 We settled the Children of Israel in a beautiful dwelling-place, and provided for them sustenance of the best: it was after knowledge had been granted to them.

20:80 O ye Children of Israel! We delivered you from your enemy, and We made a Covenant with you to give you the right side (the blessed side) of Mount Sinai, and We sent down to you Manna (special food) and quails.

26:59 Thus it was, but We made the Children of Israel inheritors of such things (the promised land)

45:16 We did aforetime grant to the Children of Israel the Book the Power of Command, and Prophet hood; We gave them, for Sustenance, things good and pure; and We favored them above all other nations.

44: 32 And We have chosen them (the Children of Israel) above the ‘Alamîn (mankind, and jinns) and our choice was based on a deep knowledge.

32.23] And certainly We gave the Book to Moses, so be not in doubt concerning the receiving of it, and We made it a guide for the children of Israel.
[32.24] And We made of them Guiding Lights and leaders to guide by Our command as they were patient, and they were certain of Our communications.

[17:100-104]”To Moses We [Allah] gave nine clear signs. Ask the Israelites how he [Moses] first appeared amongst them. Pharoah said to him: ‘Moses, I can see that you are bewitched.’ ‘You know full well,’ he [Moses] replied, ‘that none but the Lord of the heavens and the earth has revealed these visible signs. Pharoah, you are doomed.’” “Pharoah sought to scare them [the Israelites] out of the land [of Israel]: but We [Allah] drowned him [Pharoah] together with all who were with him. Then We [Allah] said to the Israelites: ‘Dwell in this land [the Land of Israel]. When the promise of the hereafter [End of Days] comes to be fulfilled, We [Allah] shall assemble you [the Israelites] all together [in the Land of Israel].”“We [Allah] have revealed the Qur’an with the truth, and with the truth it has come down. We have sent you [Muhammed] forth only to proclaim good news and to give warning.”

Similar references for statistics, but not the one I originally used. I will have to find it and post it later:

http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/world-jewish-population.htm

http://www.jafi.org.il/education/100/concepts/demography/demjpop.html


811 Responses to “Jewish Return to Israel in end times.”

  1. [...] here for [...]

    • Marianne, unbind the airwaves.

    • you have quoted some verses from the Quran and conciously you have taken every verse that you have quoted out of context, you intend to deceive and you can deceive only the ones who have knowingly wronged themselves

  2. Hmmm.. I don’t really get your point.. you write

    “Awesome!! Since the Jews are very comfortable in America and some other places, it would take something very negative to drive them out. Since 9-11, and the increasing anti-Semitism in America due to Muslim and atheist influences, it may be that the Jews will finally leave and go back to Israel, where God has promised to protect them.”

    Is your point:

    a) awesome they’ll leave
    b) can’t wait for something very negative to happen
    c) God should protect “them” (the Jews)

    I could go on, but I’ll stop here…

    Have a great weekend.

  3. I put a break between the paragraphs…maybe i should not have done that…..I meant awesome that God may be doing this….proof that God is in the world doing things.

    Thank you for showing how this could be misinterpreted. I will try to fix it so that it is more clear.

    • My young daughter Rhianna has Jewish heritage from her spanish Hodge Heritage from a great grandmother she never knew called Mabel Garcia a also from Erma Kendrick-Hodge. Pray for her protection as a generational territorial witchcraft familiar spirits want to harm her when Jesus commanded this spirit to leave this family. Again we see Satan rebelling & lying to and against his G-d.

  4. OK, taking it back… The entire post just struck me a bit offensive – wanting “the Jews” to “finally leave”… obviously awesome that God is in the world doing things…

  5. I hope I fixed it ok. Let me know if anything else hits you wrong.

  6. The comment above caught me by surprise. I had a completely different “take” on the points, “a”, “b”, and “c” mentioned in the comments above. I have no doubt that God is working His plan for His chosen people to return to His land he prepared for them. It seems reasonable that things could get so unbearable here in the U.S. that they will “finally” leave, not because they hate America, but because things will have gotten so dangerous and unpleasant for them, they will return to their homeland, Israel. That makes perfect sense to me, and I say this in all humility, that I am a Christian who cares about His chosen people. God Bless.

  7. It is a wait and see thing. I was just looking at mathematical probabilities. I personally hope nothing bad happens. Maybe Messiah will come first, and then they all return to Israel in celebration instead.

  8. Hi again
    All very interesting.. but my question is then this and please also give Biblical quotes for back up.
    Why are the Muslims launching all these attacks on the West especially America as on this website ?

    http://spiritjournals.wordpress.com/page/2/

    I cannot find my last post on the identity of Israel and asked you to please read Adam Rutherford’s- Israel-Britain. Please send me the link again.
    i find your posts very well researched and quite convincing but still have a few questions for you I would like to post there.

    Blessings and thanks
    PS don’t forget to send me link in e-mail to response pls

  9. the book was mentioned here

    http://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/the-fouth-beast-of-revelation-and-daniel/#comment-525

    I had not read it yet. I would have to go to a bookstore and see if I could find it first.

    One thing about this site….there are only so many posts per screen….the previous or older ones slip out of view and you have to click “previous page” to see more. Sometimes, it takes work for me also to navigate as well. That is the design of the wordpress site, which is not something I did. Someone who designed wordpress did this.

    This is one reason I send an email as well as respond on the site. So you can “find” my answer.

    marianne

    http://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/jewish-return-to-israel-in-end-times/#comments

  10. LOl thanks and sorry for making you search the site for me, didn’t realise. I’m a bit dumb when it comes to tech stuff.
    But thanks for the link and will remember to go back a page.

  11. Hi so do you know why the Muslims are targeting the West ?

    • Bee the main reason the Muslims are targeting the West has little to do with politics but has totally to do with the religious political war being dictated by their books. There are so many it is mind boggling and I just put a few here only to show what Islam really says about all of us. So the violence to empty their lands of unbelievers even today will rid their lands of all of us.

      http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Quran/024-hell-and-hate.htm

      Bukhari (2:28) – Women comprise the majority of Hell’s occupants. (A weak Hadith, Kanz al-`ummal, 22:10, even suggests that 99% of women go to Hell).

      Muslim (40:6831) – Non-Muslims in Hell will be given thick skin so as to prolong their agony (before they are given fresh skin for a new round of torture – Quran verse 4:56).

      Bukhari (59:727) – Allah’s Apostle [said]… “Allah’s curse be on the Jews and the Christians” This was spoken on Muhammad’s death bed, and was one of the last things that he ever said.

      shaq 240 – “The Jews are a nation of liars…. The Jews are a treacherous, lying, and evil people”

      Quran (4:52) – Those (Christians) are they whom Allah hath cursed…

      Quran (4:47) – O you (Jews) who have been given the Book! believe that which We have revealed, verifying what you have, before We alter faces then turn them on their backs, or curse them as We cursed the violaters of the Sabbath, and the command of Allah shall be executed.

      Quran (5:59-60) – This verse begets the infamous belief on the part of some Muslims that Jews are descended from swine and apes, since it says that wicked Jews (at least) were transformed by Allah in the past. (See also 2:64)

      • I want to make a correction about this statement. Muslims are not like what you think. Palestine is a muslim country. Israel who attacked Palestine without any reason. You kill our brothers and sisters in Palestine. You say bad things about Islam. Islam is the only truth religion and Allah is the only one God to be worshiped. Muslims are not terrorist. You just put a statements about Islam by putting quatation from the Quran but you never understand about the contents in the Quran. As muslims, we protect our Iman and Islam. We are not afraid to die.

        • alina

          Israel belonged to the Jews for thousands of years. They took it away from the arab pagans a long time ago.

          Since 70 AD however, it has belonged to the Romans, then the Byzantines (Greeks), then the arabs, then the crusaders (Christians), then the Ottomans, then the British (christians), and now the Jews once more.

          Palestinians moved into Israel as refugees from other muslim lands who did not want them.

          It has NEVER been their land, and they have continuously attacked Israel since they arrived. The bible promises to destroy them for their constant violence.

  12. Hi Bee,

    They are targeting the west because, so far, we have been supporting Israel. Also, there are growing numbers of Muslims in the western countries, who come in and bring their political agenda against Israel to those countries. If they do not cooperate, they attack.

    marianne

  13. I am an American Muslim.
    It hurts me to admit that the US doesn’t have a neutral role in regards to Palestine-Israel conflict. If a Palestinian Arab (be it Christian or Muslim) defends his land or home he prosecuted as a terrorist. But it is the given right for an Israeli to do the same.
    It is this that has led to the frustration that has led to the vicious suicide bombings.
    I think if we were more fair about this conflict, there would be a lot less tension and thus violence. It is this that has led to the Muslim’s hatred towards the west and Jews (even though this injustice is not held by all Jews or all of the west).

    I would also like to note that the Quran’s mentioning that the Jewish return is a refernce to the first return. Though it does mention another return (whether or not it is the second or more is not mentioned).
    This however, refers to a return at the end of times.
    During the end of time there will be a war between the Muslim and “Roman” (presumably the Christian) on one side and the Jewish on the other.
    At some point here, Jesus Christ will return.

    An interesting point is that the Quran says that the Jewish will only fight the Muslims from “behind the walls”. Which is amazing considering the current construction of the Israeli West Bank Barrier.

  14. Anon, Pardon me for interfering, but, some of the radical muslims, donnot actually defend their territory, they actually steal from their own country-men, the food the money and everything. And US is trying to destroy those people, who do such inhuman thing. And also, those Radicals actually go to US or someother countries, and send their people to blow themselves and kill alot of people, which is crutual as you can see, just to control this terror skills and terrorists activities, US is taking part in attacking and persecuting. And in Quran (Islami Holy book) it is said, Jews are bad, and mocking or whatever, but Quran is not positive about Jews.

  15. There are many reasons why muslims are targeting US, some of the reasons are: US is the super-power and greatest country in world, while Muslims think only Saudi-Arabia (Makkah, Madina) are places, which are best, but its not happening. The second reason, is jealousy, the third reason, US is supporting Israel, The fourth Reason, US is persecuting the bad people, and these bad people brain wash some muslims, to destroy US as its non-muslim country. and many more reason.

  16. Dear Anon,

    Thank you for writing.

    By their own admission, even before 1948, the Arab Palestinians and the surrounding Arab countries have made it very clear that they do not want peace with Israel..They want it totally destroyed and “pushed into to the sea.” This is not fair.

    Remember both Jews and Arabs lived in Palestine before 1948, before the British signed the land over to the Jews. It was officially British territory, not Arab Palestinian territory. So the Jews are also original Palestinians, not just Arabs. And the true owners were the British, not the Palestinians. The reason the land was given into Jewish hands was to avoid another holocaust in Europe, and give the Jews a place to go and live in peace.

    But there were immediate protests and uprisings from the Arabs, who did not want them. The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem had actually worked with Hitler to see the Jews killed in Europe. So people there have never been fair to the Jews. These protests turned into suicide bombings.

    The Jews have a right to live there in Israel. God told Abraham that his descendants would live thee- ALL of them – both the descendants of Issac and of Ishmael.

    The wall you mentioned has actually saved lives. IT prevents suicide bombers from causing trouble because they cannot easily cross over.

    Since the Quran was written ahead of time, and unless it mentions a date of return, there would be no way of saying which return it was referring to. The return is not complete unless all the Jews are there.

    The final war is also talked about in the Bible. It does seem that the Muslims will be in a war against the Jews. Where the Christians fit in is uncertain. The Christians seem to be gone, and not in the picture by then. Some people have a theory that Jesus will “rapture” them into heaven to avoid the fighting. But this will only be a faithful portion of the whole group. How the rest responds to the war, I am not sure. It does not say.

    What is important to understand is that God does NOT want a war. He created everyone to love each other, and during this time, it will be a time of hate. The Bible predicts many people will die who are evil, and Jesus will return to stop the final battle against the Jews in Jerusalem, because it is a holy city, and because He wants life, not death, for his believers.

    I hope I am being objective enough. My hope is to let all people know that God loves them, and he wants no one to perish. He wants love on this earth, not fighting, jealousy, and hate.

    God bless you for writing.

    Marianne

  17. To begin with, I thank you for your objectivity, both of you Richard & Marianne.

    Richard,
    I agree with you about fundamentalists. However, what upsets me is that the west generalizes all Muslims to be of such. This is the exact same problem where Muslims generalize all Jews as being their enemies (if I may, for a lack of a better word).
    I generally disagree with you, to be honest.
    I agree with you some of these people are bad, and need to be punished.
    The problem is that even some good people have paid the price.
    Unfortunately this is the price of war.
    I don’t think there is jealousy, or initial hate.
    I agree with you in regards to supporting Israel.
    But I ask this, why do they object the support of Israel alone, not Germany, France, or Sweden or whatever?
    To my knowledge, the position Makkah & Medina have is a religious thing, and are not expected to hold an strengths themselves.
    I think some countries have held a more neutral position than the US.
    And it is this that frustrates Middle Easterners.

    I think the best way to understand their frustration is to think of it this way.
    Imagine you have a house that your government has foreclosed, and then sold to another person.

    In my opinion, this entire war is PURELY political, done on the false basis of religion.
    Remember the Middle East has a Muslim majority, but it has had Jews & Christians. What I’ve read suggests that both have seen less prosecution there then in Europe. I have also come to realize that Arab Christians share the same content towards Israel as the Muslims do. Which was a surprise to me.
    In my opinion, peace will never come to fruition, until it is taken out of that context.

    I agree with you that the Quran’s position towards Jews is not one of glorification. But I’d have to see that it is more one of disappointment than disregard. It is usually in the form that God has provided them and they have not done their obligations.
    The Quran never forbids working interacting with the Jewish community.
    In fact the Prophet Muhammad left his shield as a security on a loan he had taken from a Jew when he died. The Jew was repaid his loan to take back that security.
    The Prophet wouldn’t have any transactions with a Jew if there was any prejudice towards them.
    Like I have said before, I am an American. And I was never taught any of that hatred towards Jews, in fact a classmate of mine and a good friend was called Richard :).
    I had only come to learn about the Arab-Israeli conflict at a much later stage in my life.

    Marianne,
    I agree with you on the Arab’s position towards Israel. I refer you to my example above. As far as a land owner is concerned, he owns the land, not Britain, not Israel. To make things worse the Jews also exceeded those accords. To be fair, I know that some were compensated, but I think it is safe to assume that not all were.
    I think it is hard to come to terms with losing what you rightfully earn no matter who tells you to let go, be it an Arab government, a British Government, or an Israeli government. I have to point out that some theories claim to have Arabs part of the deal. Needless to say, they are considered to be traitors now.

    As for God promising the land to the Jews, they believe that promise was already delivered. And even if it isn’t it can easily be suggested that that promise is of some other coming.

    I think that forcing anybody anywhere will not work. And you can expect unrest to unfold. And unless the second party was properly prepared and compensated you can expect nothing other than that. You never force friendship, which is what was happened here. The outcome would have exactly the same if those who were forced were Muslim. And I doubt the Jews would welcomed the Muslims if they were forced the same way.

    The reason I posted here is not to go into the conflict discussion.
    But I guess I have stirred things up.
    The reason I did post is that I was surprised to see that much similarity between the different religions. You will find that Islam supports to a great deal what you mention in your post. And I think this is the basis of any peace and love, in my opinion. As I mentioned before, Christians, Jews, and Muslims WERE living peacefully before this conflict (at least for the majority of time).

    As for the wall, I am neither criticizing or approving of it. I simply find it surprising to have happened (even from an architectural point of view). And though you are right that one cannot be sure of when the end of time is to start. One can’t help but see that it is one step closer.

    To return to the “End of Times” theme, I would like to point out the following.
    The Prophet has foretold of a number of signs that lead to the end of time, some major others minor. Once the first major sign happens, its the beginning of the end. Of those are the return of Christ, and the big war.

    The interesting part is that most (if not all) of the minor signs have appeared.
    Of them:
    – The shoeless shepherds will race start a high rise race, competing to build the highest buildings. This is evident in the Gulf, especially Dubai.
    – The mountains of Makkah will look like it was eaten by worms. Today those mountains are riddled with tunnels.

    I would also like to note that I was once told by a Jewish friend of mine that they believed (I have no idea on what basis let alone if it is justified) that the life of Israel is 70 or 80 years (the number escapes me). One can only hope that if that happens it is due to better circumstances, not worse. It is this word that led me to this page, I was trying to remember the timeframe and possibly put some truth to it.

    Whether or not we will live to see this day is beyond me.

    In conclusion, I hope my thoughts were conveyed objectively and without offending neither of our Christian or Jewish brethren.

  18. Wow, that was a lengthy response.
    Sorry, I didn’t realize that till after I posted.
    I hope it doesn’t wear heavy on your hearts.

    But I need to add one more point.
    It hurts me to have a negative attitude towards my government’s political attitude.
    I hope my faith in this great country is restored, and soon.

  19. Hi Anon,

    It is my understanding that the ISraelis paid the Palestinian government for the land they needed for homes.

    The USA also gave billions in financial aid to Yassar Arafat to give to the citizens to help them, but Arafat was corrupt, and kept the money for himself.

    So all the money that the Israelis paid, and the Americans paid, to help the Palestinians relocate and have other financial help was wasted, because the people never got the money.

    They finally got rid of Arafat, but never got the money back. His wife has it, who lives in France now.

    But now that HAMAS is in power, it is not much better, and it starts fighting with the Israelis.

    Please believe me that the Americans want everyone in that land to have a home and be prosperous and safe. Our government has been trying for a long time to help with peace, but the terrorists cause problems and all the progress stops, or things get worse.

    One of the major prophecies for both Christians and Jews is that the Messiah will come to establish world peace, ONLY after the Jews ALL return to Israel. So it is very important that the surrounding nations understand that the desire to live there is with good intentions.

    Those that do hate everyone are still large enough in number to cause the entire world many problems. It has never been God’s will to destroy His creations, people or properties. Satan influences people to harm others, and the harm we see is due to his activity, and the spiritual blindness of people.

    The real enemies are devils, not people.

    Each sincere person has to pray for peace, and ask God to help protect them and their people from evil.

    marianne

  20. Hi Marianne,
    I was worried my extended response was not welcome, if it is so, please inform me.

    I know that the majority of Americans (unfortunately, it is never everyone, is it?) want peace. Those who do, fall into 2 categories, those that support our government’s policy and those who don’t. (This shows how great the USA is, in my opinion).
    In case you haven’t guessed, I’m of the later.
    (To make things worse, I’m from MI and we’ve been hit hard financially. I know, we still consider ourselves lucky.)
    I think we Americans have a holier-than-thou attitude that is only fueling this contempt.

    But, the fact remains that those who have lost were not paid.

    Muslims believe in the same “outcomes”, unfortunately they don’t come with peace.
    But as was said, is that happening now?
    Going thru your site, I see you believe it to be within 9 years.
    I hope peace comes before then, but I guess a 9 year cap for a 60 (then 70) year conflict isn’t that bad.
    However, I shiver of the thought of how much blood will be shed during those years.

    I too, find it hard to see any good from this, or any, war.
    To quote the Guns & Roses, “What’s so civil about war, anyway?”.

    The question is this, how do you convince those who’ve lost to just give up?
    To make matters worse, some may even refuse to take that compensation by considering it treason.

    I guess it is easy for both of us to be objective when we have lost nothing (as apposed to either side of the conflict).

    What do you think of signs I mentioned?
    I was researching the end of time as per Muslim, Jewish, and Christian scripture, hoping to come to some timeline between the overlaps.

  21. Anon,

    You are always welcome on my site.

    My purpose here is just to explain the Bible, and Christianity, and God. I do try to avoid politics, but sometimes it happens.

    For those you think have lost…if you mean Palestinians….I do not know what to say…if the money was there, they were not allowed to have it. So do we send more money, and HAMAS takes it?

    This is a sad situation. I know most Israeli people have kind thoughts toward the Palestinian Arabs. But what can they do? The HAMAS government is violent and is hateful. How do they help their neighbors without getting killed themselves? I know the Israelis do offer medical care to their neighbors, and many Arabs go to Israel for their jobs. The problems are in the government, not the people, except for those young people who have been brainwashed to be suicide bombers. They are really victims too.

    Life is hard, when evil people are in control. Life is good and happy when honorable people who love God are in power.

    This is why I do not think there is much time left. Things will get worse first…….then very bad…….then impossible……then finally, when only our faith has been tested, will God come in and stop everything.

    It is easy to believe in God and love Him when everything is good. It is a test to believe when terrible times come. WE need to continue to believe and have faith in God to protect us, and provide what we need.

    marianne

  22. Well sorry for off-topic discussion, but i read somewhere:

    Busyface wrote:

    Islamic vs. Jewish Facts
    Islamic population: 1,200,000,000, 20% of the world. Nobel Prizes:

    Literature: 1 Peace: 2 Physics: 2 Medicine: 2

    Jewish population: 14,000,000, 0.02% of the world. Nobel Prizes:

    Literature: 10 Peace: 8 Physics: 53 Economics: 13 Medicine: 44

    Muslims should invest more in education and less blaming the Jews for all their problems, we could live in a better world.

    **

    Now, Anon, what do you have to say about it? World would be better place without muslims.
    Plus, I am an American aswell, i have many muslim freinds, they live good, they never complain, they think US is the best place, i wonder why you are having problems, people dont care about your religion if you are an American, even Obama had a muslim father.

  23. Hi Richard,
    I agree with you that they need to invest in education. But it is only the Palestinians that blame the Jews.

    I agree with you that the US is a great country. Go back thru my above comments, you will see that. I have no problems with the US personally, with the exception of the current “recession” (I know it is isn’t one technically, but it sure feels like one).
    So whatever issues I have, have little to do with the fact that I am Muslim. I live well. I live freely. And that the thanks to that goes to this great nation. I am also not complaining.

    What I am saying is that the US’ foreign policy is antagonizing many nations, not just the Muslim. Many European’s have an apathy towards us that is only increasing day after day.

    “World would be better place without muslims.”
    I would think not. But I know for sure 2 things.
    1) the world would be a better place without that kind of prejudice and racism.
    2) it is exactly such comments and attitudes that fuel every conflict in the world. Including the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.

  24. Anon,

    Any kind of racism is wrong. God created all races, and to be racist is to insult God.

    The USA is only one country that tries to help others. Too many countries expect us to be God and do everything. We do what we can, but other countries need to help also. No, we are not perfect, but at least we try. Many countries do not try. They just care about themselves.

    marianne

  25. First the Hebrews are YAHWEH’s chosen people, Israel HIS chosen land and Jerusalem HIS beloved city. YAUSHUA is returned to Jerusalem not any where else, HE will rule from Jerusalem. He has allowed gentiles in but YAHUSHUA came to the Chosen people first and they are still first.

  26. Cookie,

    Thank you for contributing toward a balanced perspective here. I agree with you.

    marianne

  27. Islam is not a race. Therfore, Anon can not be a racest.

    Islam is a death cult following a mad man named Mohamed, and praying to a false moon god called allah. Google it.

    It does not matter how good you are. The only way to heaven is to accept the free gift of Love from G-d. Jesus Christ.

    Israel is not the chosen people of G-d. They are the people chosen to carry G-d’s message to the world. They have been in a lot of trouble for not doing so as agreed. Yet, now G-d holds up his end of the agreement to show his Honor. His will shall be done to show he is G-d.

    Get ready.

    • I want to make correction to these staments. First one is Islam is not a death cult religion. As we know everyone will die when the time comes. We do not kill ourselves but we fight for Islam and rather die to protect Islam. Second thing, our Prophet Muhammad is not a mad man. He is a good exampler for all human beings. The third thing, we do not worship the moon. Allah is the only god. Allah has not being created. Allah is exist by His own. Allah is our god and the truly religion is only Islam. Islam teaching is to be good and kind to all mankind and respect others belief. However, we will always [rotect Islam in what ever condition and we will fight with those who are againts Islam. We are not afraid to die. We want to die for Allah and Islam.

      • Islam is based on conquest by the sword. That has been its history.
        Islam loves to shoot missiles into Israel and destroy innocent children.

  28. Hi Leatherneck.

    WE know that Israel was the original servant described in Isaiah. But the natural Israel constantly failed, which is why Yeshua-Jesus had to first come, and fulfill the role of the servant to prepare the kingdom for the Messianic reign. The Messiah is a king, and needs a kingdom to rule over. Therefore, since Israel failed, the king himself had to prepare his own kingdom, so he would have something to finally rule over on his return.

    Any heart that is ready for Messiah when he comes will be accepted.

    It seems like many Christians have had the same failings that Israel did. No wonder God had to do everything himself. :)

    blessings
    marianne

  29. I’m not sure what you are getting at. Keep it simple stupid,(KISS), for us Jarheads.

    Are you saying those who follow Christ are now the chosen,(The Church), and that Jews failed? I do not believe this is a correct way to understand the Bible.

    The world hates the Jew because they brought morality to the world,(G-d’s word), as instructed. They did not hold true to their agreement, and have been punished. Now, they are being regathered into the apple of G-d’s eye to show G-d holds up his agreement.

    Later.

    Later.

  30. HI leatherneck

    Quite the opposite from what you thought

    God is returning to Israel the only ones who were there before, and who belong there.

    The church can come along, but it is not about them. This is about natural Israel, who is returning to meet their Moshiach.

    God never made any promises to Christians to bring them back to anywhere.

    blessings
    marianne

  31. Yes, the Palestinians have been given money. And of course the other side says their leaders have stolen or squandered it.
    Don’t believe it. How long can money last if you don’t have an economy, or even control over your economy because of Israeli practices like closing borders, blockades, keeping people from work and disrupting daily life. Also, Israel controls the borders, the ground below and the air above. And most importantly, they control all the resources.
    These people have been beaten down for 60 years and then we ask why they squandered the few crumbs they got!! Amazing.

  32. Hi Adrian,

    I appreciate your concern for the Palestinian people, but it is still not Israel’s fault. Yassar Arafat was given money for decades, and he took all the money and put it in a bank account outside the country. When he died, his widow got all the money and moved to France. This current “government” by Hamas does the same thing. Hamas is being financially supported by surrounding arab countries.

    No one stops food from coming in there. THe destruction of the living area for Palestinians is a direct result of being under terrorist (Hamas) control, which even persecutes and kills its own people. Hamas as well as its former government has fired rockets and bombs into Israel for the entire 60 years that you mention. Israel has been consistently attacked by one arab group after another since 1948 – Jordan, Syria, Jordan Egypt, Lebanon, etc, or a combination of them. Israel has been forced to defend itself, and given away much land for peace, but to no avail.

    When you have evil people in control, the people suffer. There will be no peace unless Hamas is completely destroyed and a more cooperative leadership is established.

    Incidentally, Israel takes care of many Palestinian patients in its hospitals, sends food to damaged areas, and the Palestinians who live inside the Israeli borders like it there and do not want to go back to Hamas controlled areas. They have jobs there, and are treated well.

    blessings
    marianne

  33. I understand .. Most people only get one side of the story from the biased media. It’s like we are trying to hold back a tidal wave. They just don’t get it. Thanks for listening.

  34. Hi Adrian,

    You comments are always welcome. The situation in Gaza is sad. How to help the people without helping Hamas? Most of them are totally brainwashed, or scared to rebel against their own government.

    I just saw this in the news today. Iran has been intercepted bring weapons to Hamas. That is what keeps the violence going. As long as Hamas has weapons, it will keep attacking Israel, and this will force Israel to attack back. And, even though they give warnings, to protect innocent citizens, some will still get in the way, and get killed or hurt.

    http://wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=87102

    Maybe, the only way to cure this is to open the gates, evacuate out the innocent civilians, and then bomb the entire region. Once Hamas is destroyed, then let the people back in, and help them rebuild.

    blessings
    marianne

  35. Hi Marianne,
    Obviously a difference of opinion.;-) So only Israel can receive military aid and sophisticated artillery from US, but not the Pals from Iran?. What are they to use then, water guns and cap pistols? I want to see Arabs and Jews living in peace. By addressing the needs of both sides, this can be accomplished. The “flatten the neighborhood” mentality here has not solved anything in the last 60 years and only created more hatred and violence.

    If you go back to numerous speeches made by underground mainstream Zionist terrorists David Ben-Gurion/Menachum Begin in the 1930’s, you will see that they made it very clear there would be no sharing of land with the Palestinians.

    “We must expel Arabs and take their places.” — David Ben Gurion, 1937 “Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country.” — David Ben Gurion

    “There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?” –Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp. 121-122.

    I’m safe to assume you will find this incorrect. So be it ;-)
    The best,
    Adrian

  36. Hi Adrian,

    Yes I find what you say incorrect. :)

    The Arab states have declared the intent of blowing Israel off the map and pushing it into the sea since before 1948. Israel has a long history of giving land for peace. Palestinians have only demanded land, and never gave up anything for peace. They have broken every truce in they have been there. I would not trust anything they said.

    If you want to know what Israeli leadership has said, you should check the Israeli website, not the HAMAS website. Hamas are all liars and terrorists. Since the Palestinians have started every conflict, they are to blame.

    They would not need any weapons at all if they would stop attacking Israel. These are people the other Arab nations do not even want around. They are refugees and troublemakers that go t kicked out of other places and settled in Israel.

    If the Palestinians were my neighbors, I would want them either dead, or in prison. They are mentally deranged, and totally out of their minds with delusions their leadership has brainwashed them with. Even the children are dangerous to society. They are barbarians. None of them are civilized, and they belong on a planet by themselves.

    I feel sorry for the Israelis, since they have to put up with them. To me, to solve this conflict, the Palestinians should be moved to an island somewhere by themselves, with no way off, since they are dangerous, and Israel should take all the land. They are the only ones who can properly care for the land and be productive. The Palestinians can have their own island to blow up, without bothering the rest of the world.

    marianne

  37. Hi Marianne,
    Well, unlike yourself I suppose, I’m quite careful NOT to go to biased and partial network libraries of history and news, but only to those who take an objective and fair view of what goes on there.

    In fact, against better judgement, I have now & again gone to Jewish sources, now that you mention it. One being Debbie Ducro, an American-Jewish journalist with the Kansas City Jewish Chronicle. She published an article, Quest for Justice, and was fired the next day for support to the rally of the right of return for Palestinian people. I guess she had another job waiting ;-)

    If you notice, my quotes come from the mouths of Jews. Human atrocity continues to be perpetuated against an innocent people who couldn’t come up with the arms and money to defend themselves against the western powers bent upon their demise as a people.

    The Israeli spokesman (Australian born!) Merk Regev, accepts that Hamas did NOT violate the Ceasefire UNTIL AFTER Israel attacked Gaza on the 4th Nov!

    “There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?” — Quoted by Nahum Goldmann

    Did you know the very word “terrorist” was made up by the British to describe the Zionists in 1923. The early Zionists also INVENTED truck bombing, blowing up the King George Hotel with a truck that was disguised as carrying oranges. The great thing is these real terrorists became the leadership of the newly recognized state. Great terrorist like Ben Gurion, Menachem Begin,. Ariel Sharon, and most of the rest were on British Terrorist Wanted posters.

    They really don’t like to be reminded of their past…they learn in school to do to Palestinians what the Fuhrer did to them.

    So, when Hitler took Poland and France in 1940 did the rest of the world say he won this land in a war and so its justified?? You can’t take away a people’s country and say its OK because it was won in a war!! Is justice just a matter of might makes right??

    Ah the chant, “We killed Jesus, we’ll kill you too,” still rings in my ears as Israeli settlers broke the cheekbones of peaceful protester Tove Johansson while the IDF stood by and spat on her.

    American freelance journalist, Alison Weir, who traveled independently throughout the West Bank and Gaza … If Americans Knew.Org for unbiased reporting.

    No I’m very careful where my sources come from. There is no more powerful propaganda in the US than that of the Israeli Lobby. Agree or not, the Jew govt is designed to force the people of Palestine into exile, so Israel can claim ALL the land and resources. There is an abundance of oil reserves both on the strip and offshore. That is what’s behind the siege…oil and gas.

    Open Letter to Israel Soldiers ~ Jews call on Israeli soldiers to stop War Crimes. Look it up.

    Attack on The USS Liberty ~ here’s another one no one cares to investigate.

    Remember, Ben Gurion said, “We must expel Arabs and take their places. Let us not ignore the truth among
    ourselves…politically, we are the aggressors and they defend themselves…The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country…”.

    The Jewish dominated world press has so shielded Jew Supremacists from criticism that their most famous leaders can say such things without fear of repercussion.

    There was no outrage expressed by the world press when Ben Gurion made his remark, nor did any protest ensue from his supremacist prophecy quoted in Look magazine in 1962; a prediction that Israel would one day sit atop a one world government.

    I always have to laugh when people still condemn Yasser Arafat receiving the peace prize many years ago. “Once a terrorist, always a terrorist” is the cry. But, I never hear these remarks about Menachem Begin receiving the same prize!!

    You may enjoy the last word Marianne, and we shall agree to disagree.

    Peace be with you always,
    Adrian

  38. Dear Adrian,

    Show me from an Israeli source, that ben Gurian said that, and with hostile intent. Interesting time – 1930-1937? Days of Nazi Germany arresting Jews, with the help of the sweet innocent Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, who donated time and armies to help Hilter massacre the Jews, so they they could not escape to Israel, even though the Balfour Declaration gave the Jews the right to settle there. I hope you know that this was British Land, not Palestinian land. Whatever arabs lived there, they were just residents under the British government.

    Once the Balfour Declaration made it clear that the British intended to establish a Jewish national home in Palestine, Arab opposition grew much firmer. Hostilities punctuated the 1920s (Jerusalem riots of April, 1920, 1929 Palestine riots (in Hebron, Jerusalem and Safed) and 1930s (activities of Izz ad-Din al-Qassam and the Black Hand group, 1936-1939 Great Uprising). Even though this was British land to do with as they pleased, to this day, Palestinians illegally claimed it was their land, not that of the British, and to this day make false claims against the Israelis.

    During the 1936–1939 Arab revolt in Palestine, Ben-Gurion instigated a policy of restraint (“Havlagah”) in which the Haganah and other Jewish groups did not retaliate for Arab attacks against Jewish civilians, concentrating only on self-defence. In 1937, the Peel Commission recommended partitioning Palestine into Jewish and Arab areas and Ben-Gurion supported this policy. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ben-Gurion)

    In 1941, following Rashid Ali’s pro-Axis coup, riots known as the Farhud broke out in Baghdad in which approximately 180 Jews were killed and about 240 were wounded, 586 Jewish-owned businesses were looted and 99 Jewish houses were destroyed.

    The violence has always started with the Arabs. You have your history wrong, and your sources are anti-semitic.

    So we still disagree.

    marianne

  39. Hey, I want to write a note as a warning to those who persecute Israel and I am looking for scriptures that refer to when God said He would disperse them among the nations and were He said those who persecute them, He will punish. Just wandering if you can help me out. Thanks.

  40. And if you have any scripture that suggests the world would turn on Israel. Thanks. :)

  41. Hi Kwazy,

    This is all through scripture, but I do not have a list ready to use for you. I will have too look this up, and send it to you when I am finished. In the meantime, look in the book of Zechariah to start. It has a lot in there. Also the book of Jeremiah and Joel.

    blessings
    marianne

  42. Been given many prophecies, both personally & through others, that I’m to make aliyah. Am fearful to do so. I lack faith & resources to be obedient. I know Scripture says both “fishers & hunters” (Jer. 16:16). Fishers lure & entice, implying being given a choice to go. Hunters implies go or die. I believe we are currently in the “fishers” season, but the hunting season is just about upon us.

  43. Marianne;

    Your web site is such a blessing. For those of you who can’t move to Israel, the second best thing is to volunteer. How about the Army? with

    http://www.sar-el.org/

    http://www.forzion.com/

    http://www.joshuafund.net/give.html

    Here’s a web site for Jewish believer’s who might be comtemplaing Aliyah:

    Mazel Tov;
    Kittii

  44. funny, only today that I spoke to my friend letting her know that I am planning to return to my home country, Israel, in a couple of years from now, lived in the us for 17 years ..but not seeing any future for myself being here. don’t get me wrong I love the usa, and was honored being part of it for almost 20 years..

    • hi gita

      a couple of years is about right, if not sooner….you will feel it get stronger and stronger. God is blowing the shofar now…..

  45. Thank you so much, there aren’t enough posts on this… or at least i cant find them. I am turning into such a blog nut, I just cant get enough and this is such an important topic… i’ll be sure to write something about your site

  46. Oh my god. everyone’s beliefs here are so warped. You are all crazy. Leave the Jewish people alone already, and yea you can never figure out who a jew is anymore anyway. some of them don’t even know they are jewish, and they come in all races now too.
    You are all nut jobs.

  47. Crazyyyy CRazyyy CrAzYY – CrazY BiblE Thumping PEople! All of you!

  48. there is no end times. i’ll bet on it too. ur just as crazy as all the catholics that huddled in churches completely fearing nothing realistic dec. 31st 999ad
    fucking christians – jesus was made up to control the populace by the romans. i am deeply sorry, but it is true. and leave the jews alone already. they just practice another bizarre religion that does not harm to anyone… why don’t people start controvercy with innocent killing islamists, or money stealing/life destroying scientologists…

    • Dear Stop Starting Controversy

      The Islamists believe in the end times.

      The governments of the world are discussing this world as being in great danger of “ending” and are taking steps to survive it. EXAMPLE: D.U.M.B.S in every country

      Jesus was jewish, not roman

      So what do you believe will come to pass in the next 10-20 years?

      • Nothing. The usual islamic war on israel, some terrorists attacks on western countries, no end-times, no world war. just the usual suffering. nothing too extraordinary.

  49. Dear All,

    I am palestinian who never has had the right to go back to his homeland.. not to live in it, but not to see it even. Sometimes I ask my self why? and what is the reason which has made me away from my country and totally isolated from asking about the right of visiting it.
    Is it because I am rerrorist?

    I have read here that money was given to palestinians to sell their lands and just leave Palestine! alright, partially some people accepted so but what about the majority which were basically forced to leave their lands and homes or they will be killed? many palestinians were killed because they refused to leave their homes just after declaring Israel in 1948.. If they all accepted the money and left, then why are we seeing palestinian refugees in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, Iraq, Eygpt….etc Those refugees did not even have money to buy food, homes or land (considering the fact that Israel compensated refugees) they probably spent the money during thier trip from their home lands to the refugee camps! :)

    Yasser Arafat was not even leading the country by that time so how did he take that money? You probably mean the money which was has been sent to let palestinians build their camps in neighbour countries!

    The other interesting question is: why muslims do not like Americans?
    I personally, like many other muslims, have nothing toward US or americans, I do have many american friends but what bothers us and many others from other nations and regiligon is the attitude of US covernmet in the Israel – Palestina conflict, we have seen many wonderful massive killing stories of israeli forces by their tanks, messiles, airforce….etc against civillians, and at the end of the day the US representators appear in the media denying all these actions from Israel side and they feel sorry about palestinians without putting serious and real pressure on Israel stopping their unfair actions.

    If a guy bobms him self ins isreal, it does not mean that all palestinians will bombs themselves but Israel always takes action massively against them all… it is the same way that if an american person is bad, I should not globalize on all americans and judge that they all are bad.

    We are against suiciding absolutely but from the psycological point of you, you should understand and analyze why this person could bomb himself? lets apply the scenario on one of you: You’re living in your lovely house since ages and raised a family in it.. what would be your reaction about intruders who come and force you to leave your house, definitely you will defend your family and show the right of owning your house.. but the intruders do not want to listen to you and they take it your house by force, kill your family.. what tastes of life do you have now?? please describe your reaction..

    The intruders claim that your house belonged to their ansistors 3000 years ago :) well, my ansistors were having a house somewhere in Calefornia 1000 years ago and I want to go back and take it :)

    Please try to avoid what the MEDIA says about us and Middle East, just ask any of your friends who have been in Middle East and they will tell you that the people their love to live peacefully with everyone and what the MEDIA says is far far far away from the reality..

    Regards,

    M. Rabi

    • dear M Rabi

      I wish you peace.

      The promise to Abraham is that all his descendants have a right to live in the holy land. This means those from Isaac AND Ishmael. So, BOTH the Muslims and Jews have a right to live there, and “occupy” the land.

      The stated goal of the Palestinians is to remove all Jews from the land, which is not fair. This goal they have made public.

      This effort was started during the Nazi time, when the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem made an alliance with Hitler to kill Jews, and keep them from escaping the holocaust, and coming to Israel (Palestine).

      Originally, in 1948, the Arab states that attacked Israel told the Palestinians to leave, because they were going to destroy all of Israel, and all the Jews, and they wanted the Palestinians out of the way. So, many Palestinians left.

      There are Palestinians that did not leave, and live in the state of Israel now, who are treated well by the Israelis. It is a different world there, from the Palestinian territories, and it is proof that these two groups can live together in peace.

      The problem is now, that so many of the Palestinians want to kill the Jews, that the Israel government is not accepting Palestinians to return. This is to prevent trouble to Israel.

      Yasser Arafat was given millions of dollars to help the Palestinians, but he kept the money for himself, and now the money is in France with his wife.

      Arafat and Hamas both have worked to destroy peace, not establish it.

      Israel has given up much land for peace. It did not have to, since it won the land fairly in war time. But it did want peace, gave up land and their homes in Gaza, and West Bank, and now Palestinians have more land to live on.

      People everywhere want to be fair to both the Israelis and the Palestinians.

      But the suicide/ genocide bombings and the missile attacks from Palestinians have to stop. As long as Palestinians attack Israel, Israel will fight back. I believe this will go on until Jesus comes back.

      Palestinians need to recognize the right of Israel to exist, and that Jews need homes, just like they do.

      I think Hamas provides bad leadership, and is corrupt.

      It is sad that the Palestinian people are denied a decent life by their own leaders, who keep all the money for themselves.

      Since it is a dangerous time, for both Israelis and Palestinians, it is better that you stay where you are.

      It is also sad that God’s original desire has not been met – that both the descendants of Isaac and Ishmael would live together as brothers in peace.

      I hope this peace comes soon to the region.

  50. Dear Marianne,

    I wish peace to you too and to everyboday.

    Let’s be somehow neatural and realistic on the situation and talk from the humanity point of view and keep religions aside.

    Talking about the situation from the begining will lead us to facts:
    Our grand father and his family were forced to leave their homes in Palestine because they either would be killed or be killed, imagine that up to this moment our grand father is keep the key of his house that does not exist now!! no one came to him negotiating about buying his house or land, and even if there was any then would my GF accept the fact of selling his land and house? money never overrides the dignity.
    It is like you are forcing me for two choices:

    1- Either you leave your land and I should not claim that it is mine any more.
    2- or you will demolish the house over my head and die under it.

    The power is the major player in this arena my dear and it was abused. Again, I am not talking about religions here or what Abraham, Moses, Jesus or Mohammed promised their nation, I am talking about humanity here and please focus on this part.

    For your information, emphesizing on palestinians sold their lands against money is just a pretext that Israel uses to convince the world that the land was legally given to them but I want to clarify here that palestinians by that time did not rely on “money” in their life, the name “money” was partially exisiting in their culture, they used to exchange things against other things like exchaning olive oil with sugar, flour, olive, wood…etc they did not need the money even because they used to plant their lands, bake at home, harvest, building their houses from block and mud…etc so the money factor would never impress them to leave their lands against leafs (which is money). If Israel wants really peace then why they are not allowing the palestinians in the refugees camps to return to their homes?
    Up to this time we see Isreal moving into West Bank lands taking palestinians’ lands by force, demolishing their homes and making them homeless for the fact that the homes were built illegaly!! ~really funny~. And as a landlord you have no right to raise a case again the decision maker, it is from the israeli government :) imagine if a palestinian does the same for an israeli house.. what would happen? :)
    Please check on youtube and you will see many homes being demolished LIVE and the owners have the right only to cry!

    Now, which promices of Abraham take place here? where is the justice and the humanity?! do we have to see our homes being demolished for the sake of implementing Abrahams promices?

    By the way, if you want to talk about the real owner of the land (based on history) and you go a bit further in the history you will see that the first to live in the land and their origin is from tribes migrated from the coasts of Oman and Yemen and heart of arabian semi-island, this territory is purely arabian.

    Thanks for your understanding and timing.

    Regards,
    M. Rabi

  51. Sorry, did not mention the Canaanians in the pervios paragraph.
    <>

  52. By the way, if you want to talk about the real owner of the land (based on history) and you go a bit further in the history you will see that the first to live in the land were the “Canaanians” and their origin is from tribes migrated from the coasts of Oman and Yemen and heart of arabian semi-island, this territory is purely arabian.

    • hi M Rabi

      As you know, there were ancient tribal wars in Canaan. Whoever won the war, got the property. This has been true throughout history, all over the world, not just there. The countries in Europe, Asia and Africa were established the same way.

      In Israel/ Palestine, the Canannites, Hebrews, Babylonians , Medes and Persians, Assyrians, Syrians, Greeks, Romans and Ottomans all occupied the territory at different times. The last legitimate owner of the property before 1948 was Britain. The Palestinians were residents of the land, but did not own it.

      The Land of Palestine was officially transferred by the British to Israeli Jews in 1948, with UN approval, to restore this area as a homeland to the Jews after the holocaust. There was also property that some Jews purchased (they paid real money) for territory to live there before that. So Jews partially owned land there before it became the state of Israel.

      Unfortunately for the Palestinians, they never had a government or ownership status over the entire land. They were not a united group of people with a central leadership and national status.

      Originally, Israel had no intention of making anyone leave. With the attacks by Arab nations, and the local attacks by Palestinian groups, such as Fatah and Hamas, they had no choice but be cautious about anyone moving there who might be potential enemies.

      The demolitions in certain Palestinian neighborhoods were done to root out terrorists that stored their bombs and weapons there. I saw the demolitions, and there were explosions as houses blew up, because explosives were stored inside of them. These homes were hiding places for terrorists. The goal of Israel was to destroy the terrorist supplies….people had bombs in their refrigerators, and everywhere in their houses. I saw the soldiers go into other houses and bring out the explosives.

      The sad part is that the terrorists use the civilians for shields. The civilians have to cooperate or they die.

      If Israelis find civilians hurt in a conflict with terrorists, they will bring them to their hospital, and try to give medical help. This is more than Hamas will do. They let the people die, and take pictures of them to put on internet.

  53. Um, the Bible says that all of the scattered tribes of Israel will be brought back to the promised land. Wht’s this about the Jews? You are missing the big picture and your conclusions are way off accordingly.

    • hi Bud

      The word “Jew” is a generic term for all of them.

      Scripture says that both the branch of Judah (southern kingdom of Israel) and the branch of Joseph (Ephraim, ie northern kingdom of Israel) would be united as one in the last days, and never to be pulled apart again. (Ezechiel 37:16-19)

      Currently, this is true already in the state of Israel.

      Some that interpret “Israel” as ONLY the northern kingdom – currently represented by America and Europe- need to realize that all the non- Jewish “Israelites” from America and Europe would never fit into the tiny territory of Israel.

  54. I’ll tell you what…I bet Sarah wishes she had never doubted the Angel of the Lord…goes to show how our choices can affect more than just ourselves….an entire world, now, several generations later…WOW! Just a thought…

  55. I am a Muslim-convert. I was baptized roman catholic when i was a baby, time when i don’t have the opportunity to say No. 40 years later, I saw how the Christian west governments supported Israel in taking land not theirs. Just like USA, walling the native indians much like the Jews walling the palestinians. Why would christians support Israel when Jews hate Christians? Christians are not promised something, Almighty G-D promised the Jews their land which they got but did not protect. Christians are confused group, that’s why you have different denominations in the USA alone. I love the God that was taught to me when I was Christian, the God i know then is not Jesus but the Creator Allah. but Christians made jesus their God. In Judaism and Islam, they believe in one God and God is unique, and to believe in the prophets. The Muslims believe in the Torah.

    Beliefs that are found in Judaism and Islam, below are samples.
    G-d exists
    G-d is one and unique
    G-d is incorporeal
    G-d is eternal
    Prayer is to be directed to G-d alone and to no other
    The words of the prophets are true
    G-d knows the thoughts and deeds of men
    G-d will reward the good and punish the wicked
    The Messiah will come
    The dead will be resurrected.

    • dear Moh’d

      The land was legally transferred to the Israelis (Jews) in 1948 by Britain, who owned the land. The Palestinians never owned the land. They were refugees from other Muslim lands that moved to Israel.

      The other theological issues are a separate discussion. I have information on this, which is on the site.

      Some Jews hate christians because there is a long history of christians persecuting jews.

      but in recent history, a new, better breed of christians has arisen who are kind to jews, muslims and everyone else. The catholic church did much damage to relationships between different religions.

  56. I think this says it all…

    http://www.ifamericansknew.org/

    BTW Rachel Corrie RIP

    • dear joe,

      this page is full of lies and/or misrepresented statistics. It is put out by HAMAS, a terrorist organization, although it does not admit it. A bunch of fake statistics. Do not be so gullible.

      Most Palestinians are killed by HAMAS and by suicide bombings, which mean they kill themselves. Very few are killed by Israel. Israel targets terrorist militants, not citizens.

      The last I heard, about 87% of Gaza is terrorist. When they get captured, they go to prison. They should stay there. My opinion is that they should be executed, not imprisoned.

      USA has given aid to Gaza, but its leaders have spent the money on themselves. Yasar Arafat took millions of dollars out of the country to France before he died. His wife now has all the US humanitarian aid in her bank account.

      The Palestinian unemployment rate would be higher, if Israel did not give them so many jobs.

      Israel has given up 70% of its land to the Palestinian terrorist, in order to get peace. The first thing Palestinians do when they get Israeli land and houses is destroy the houses out of hatred.

      A few years ago, 100,0000 Jews gave up their homes in the west bank. The Muslims then came in and destroyed everything.

      They are really stupid violent people with no soul. they are hopeless, pathetic people who kill themselves.

      • Oh and I’ve worked out from your writing Marriane that you are supporting the Zionist project, well if you are at least stop supporting the killing of the innocent no matter who creed or colour they are. Zionists can acheive their aims through dialogue not just down the barrel of a gun you know! I look forward to an apology for your support of the murder of innocent people.

  57. Marianne,

    I 100% completely DISAGREE with you, HAMAS or whoever is in control of Gaza is a natural reaction to the injustice that is being perpetrated against inhumane treatment, I’m not particularly fond of Hamas but I do not believe for one minute they are terrorists…who classed them as terrorists ? I live in the UK and if my land was overtaken British people would take matters into their own hands too. I know of Rabbis in the UK who openly condemn what Israel is doing and massacaring women and children who my Ancestors class as Gentiles is simply not acceptable and it is WRONG. You really have been duped into believing the propaganda out there haven’t you! Thank God I am British and not brainwashed!

    • Joe,

      You are entitled to your opinion. So am I.

      I have personally witnessed the mercy and peacefulness of Israel, and the violence and deaths from HAMAS, so I know who the terrorists are.

      I wish you well.

  58. Joe,

    You got it right, she is a die-hard supporter of israel…..She believes whoever can take the land by use of force can become the owner. Which means whoever can enter her house and taker her by force away from her husband can use her the way he wants it.

    I can understand why british and US people go by who ever has power the land belongs to him mentality, cuz this is what they have been doing …….

    They will be raised blind and will spend eternity in pit of fire, then they will know what was truth and humanity.

    Suzy.

    • Hi suzy

      Everyone who was ever in the land, including the modern Palestinians with their infitada, have taken the land by force.

      History of the land of Israel taken by conquest:
      Egypt
      Hittite
      Israel
      Assyrian
      Babylonian
      Persian
      Macedonian
      Roman
      Byzantine
      Sassanid
      Caliphate
      Seljuk
      Crusader
      Saladin
      Mongol
      Ottoman
      European

      Israel was GIVEN the land by the British.- Balfour Declaration – 1948

      Reference

      http://www.mapsofwar.com/ind/imperial-history.html

      What ever country you live in, it was also established by war.

      • OMG.. Marinne, Why are you so obsessed with Force and Violence. We are not living in Jungle my dear.
        Before you responded to Suzy’s comments I would appreciate if you could please tell us how if feels if someone takes your home, kills your kids and husband and uses you the way he wants. Please just say it how if feels!!!

  59. Suzy,
    I really like the way you described her :)
    No offenses Marianne but honestly it is so obvious that you are extremely (and blindly) supporting israel and their attitudes in this conflict. You should not keep engaging the religions into your incorrect justifications toward Israel. Open your eyes more and extend your vision toward “humanity” then you will have better opinions and views.

    Regards

    • hi Mahmoud

      There is nothing wrong about supporting Israel. It is God’s will that they return to the land. Obviously, he has also allowed others, who now call themselves Palestinians to come there too.

      God’s will is that both should live in peace. Palestinians don’t want this, and they are always demanding more land, and starting fights. True, not all Palestinians are like this. I know one who moved to America a long time ago, and he fixes my computer.

      There will be major wars there – Gog and Armageddon – in Israel, which was predicted in prophecy, and it looks like it will happen soon.

      It is this time that Jesus will return to establish world peace.

  60. Marianne,

    You probably misunderstood what I meant. My message to you is that you should be neutral in such cases, you simply say that God wants them to return based on what your religion says, and other religions like Islam does not say that the land belongs to them, that is why you should be neutral and do not judge on things based on your religious views.
    You just said: Palestinians are always demanding more land. It sounds to be funny because it is the other way around that Palestinians are demanding but Israel is actually taking the lands and controlling it unfortunately. So this is an obvious contradiction my dear.
    I am sure that you are fully aware of the Israeli violation of the lands in West Bank, and they way they use to take a land, simply they dismiss the Palestinians by force from their homes and start building settlements…
    Again, try to be neutral and look into it from humanity angle.

    • dear Mahmoud

      All of that territory, including the land of Jordan, used to be Israeli land. They have given away more than 75% of what they had for peace, which never occurred, because people keep attacking them.

      None of that land ever belonged to those who call themselves Palestinians. Most moved there as refugees from other Arab areas. A few were already there living under different empires such as the Ottoman, which ceded to the British. Jews also lived there under these empires, and there has always been some Jews there since ancient times.

      The Palestinians should be grateful that they got some land for free, and be willing to live with their neighbors in peace, but they do not want to. They live in houses built by others. They prefer to shoot rockets into Israel. If I lived there, I would shoot back also.

      The giving away of land for peace is a bad business deal.

      If you made a deal with me – that you would give me your house if I left you alone, and I started shooting at you, then you would want your house back. This is because I did not keep my part of the agreement.

      Palestinians do not honor their agreement. It is Israel that has given up their homes, not the Palestinians. The West Bank is actually Israeli land that was allowed to the Palestinians to live there also – IF they would be peaceful – but Israel was cheated.

      • My dear, you probably do not read history. I am sure you have heard of Canaan who migrated from the “Arabic Semi Island” 3000 – 4000 years BC and they named the land as Canoon Land. The Palestinians (Plasto) tribes migrated from Mediterranean Islands to the easter coast of the Canaan land. So let’s stop up to here where no Jews Nation was existing at that time :) So your Israel should not keep bluffing themselves that the land originally belongs to them!

        The language of the Canaanites was basically the language spoken by the people who used to live in the Arabic Semi Land starting from Yemen and Oman. Even the shapes of the old graves in Palestine are typically the similar to the old graves available “yet” in Oman and Yemen and these graves have been since the Canaanites time.
        We all agree that the arabic are originally from the same area which is the Arabic Semi Land.

        However, as I follow your posts I could understand that you are not sort of person who would understand what humanity is, what mercy means and what being neutral means.

        Based on your last post you simply say, in other words, that Israel should kill all nations in the region and establish their promised land! that is so silly and greedy as you just think of your own self which is selfish, you do not even give any sort of respect for people who live in the neighbour countries.

        The palestinian refugees are called refugees because Israelis kicked them from their homes and lands. Do you know what Israel was doing? OK, I will tell you. They were dropping papers from planes to the palestinians lands saying that either you leave your homes and lands in 48 hours or we kill you :) So surely people who need to keep their families safe and raise their kids were keen on making them alive and they left with no shitty deals (that you call them deals)

        I do not feel like going over an argument with a person who sees things from his/her points of views and ignore what we call it HUMANITY and unfortunately you are such a typical person :)

        • Mahmoud,

          By the way, it is ok to argue here. I let people express themselves.

          The original Canaanites are all dead. The Israelites came in thousands of years ago, and drove them all out except for a few.

          The Palestinians who are there now are refugees NOT because Israel ran them out, but because the surrounding 5 Arab nations in 1948 told them to get out, because they were going to blow Israel off the map, and they wanted them to get out of the way. Israel did not run them off, their own people did. The Palestinians originally came from those countries and moved there, after they were kicked out of the arab countries.

          Those that call themselves never had any country of their own before Israel, and never had a government, or anything to identify them. 1oo years ago, the land was barren, with nothing there. Jews came in and developed the land.

          When the IDF dropped notices, it was to warn the civilians to move out of the way, because they were going to attack the HAMAS that was in their village. This was an effort to protect the civilians. In many cases, HAMAS would not let them leave, and so some people got hurt. HAMAS does not care about the people.

          I do care about humanity. I think the Palestinians are victims of their own leaders. Much financial aid has been sent there, by the USA and other countries, but the leaders keep the money, and let the people stay poor. Arafat stole millions of dollars and kept the money in France. His widow is now a rich woman.

          • Marianne,

            The Canaanites were dead as my grandfathers died but they had descendant, they migrated from the coast of arabic semi island to the SHAM area (Lebanon, Syria, Palestine and Jordan), they existed in most of the countries in Middle East and again by that time there was not such nation called Isreal so they do not have the right to calim that the land is originally belonging to them and this also applies on you.
            Israel nation is the desendant of Abraham, his son Isaac, his son Jacob and then his 12 sons. And by the way, Prophet Abraham was sent to Egypt and NOT to Palestine (please remember this). When prophet Moses was chosen by God to call Israel nation for God, they were not in Palestine or whatever you call it. They were in Old Egypt and partially moved to the area around east of dead sea.
            When God requested Moses to go to the Holly Land (Palestine) Israel nation refused to join Moses in his trip because they simple were afraid from the Canaanites descendant.

            Later on the established their kingdom in the land and follow it till these days.

            So all that indicates the your Israel does not have the right to claim that the land belongs to them my dear due to the facts I just highlighted above and we all agree about them :)

            Now back to the IDF dropped notice, this actually was far away before HAMAS existed and even before the palestinians had the revolution against israel.. this is in 1948 :) So israel warned all palestinians to leave their homes and lands. Those who left they survived but they are still refugees, and those who did not want to leave their homes and lands and resisted, Israel killed them all. So it is not the arabs who asked them to leave!

            100 years ago the civilization was poor becuase the technologies were poor and there was no petrol discovered. Israel got the money from the US and the british and of course money makes everything. Look at Dubai now.. out of nothing they made it something and it is an arabic city. So it is not only israel that can develop ;)

            By the way, which countries you are talking about that kicked the palestinians out so they came and settled in Palestine? When was that?
            I need to know because what you say sounds to be funny for me ~giggles~

            • hi Mahmoud

              We obviously have different history books, so we will not resolve the historical issue.

              So look at today only.

              Why can’t the Palestinians live in peace with the Israelis?

              Countries like Egypt kicked out the Palestinians who moved to Israel. Then they had to leave again in 1948, because 5 Arab states were going to attack Israel, and they had to move out of the way. Some are still waiting to go back. An example is Yassar Arafat, who was Egyptian, but moved to Israel.

              • What I said is not relivant to my books my dear. It is all history and you could Wiki the same.
                The way you say it is funny really because if one person moved, that does not mean that the whole nation followed him and moved :)

  61. Mahmoud,

    When God gives something he makes it easy and gives it in large portion and makes it an honor for the recepient. So what kinda God is that who humiliates Jews for 19 centuries and then gives them a tiny piece of land which is insecure and for which they have to constantly shed blood. No this cannot be a blessing from God, it is nothing but punishment from God and more is too come. Christians know this well that punishment for Jews is coming by boat load but they still want them to go to Israel cuz they expect their own God will come when all jews are in israel. So deceitful on the part of Christians and then they say we love everybody. They love none but themselves and their only goal is to bring their God.

    Suzy

  62. If Israel thinks that it can just walk over and take the entire Palestinian land then they are severly mistaken cuz Palestinians are Muslims and Muslims are not Native Indians and Muslims are too big a block to die.

    Jews will never be able to digest the Palestinian Land, and in the process Christians will loose all of their land…. this is why Armageddon is coming! Her own rule of might takes all will be used to deprive Jews and Christians of their land.

    I do hope that Muslims will give some land to us Native Indians.

    Suzy.

    • Suzy

      ALL the land is Israeli land. The Palestinians are just allowed to live there. The land never legally belonged to the Palestinians. They are are resident, and very ungrateful, guests of Israel. Before Israel legally owned the land, it belonged to the British.

      • It did not belong to the British. It was a mandate to fix the constitutions and laws but they fucked it up and handed it over to the jews.
        It is like a prey being shifted from this jaw to that jaw.
        Your opinion about it proves that the powerful people control the whole world and the weak people are like shit which simply contradicts with you big time when you said that you care about Humanity :) and such opinion is irrelevant to Humanity my dear

      • The comment that Suzy made above reminds me of David and Goliath. Wasnt’ Goliath he a palestinian? Didn’t he get his butt kicked AND his HEAD CHOPPED OFF by David who later became King David who is the ancestor of JESUS CHRIST! just a thought….:)
        the bigger they are the harder they fall…..

  63. I posted these videos on other pages. Look what Hamas does to it’s Palestinians! And they want peace? It would have happened a long time ago if they did. Israel is a tiny country surrounded by Huge areas of Land where Muslims live. They don’t want the Jews in that area. Period! That’s what it is all about. The Palestianisns are just pawns. The other Arab countries don’t want to help them. The Globalists want to Rule the World from Jerusalem. That is what the New World Order is all about. I say Leave it in the hands of the Israelis. Jerusalem is the Holy City of the Jews and Christiasns. Mecca and Medina are the Holy Cities of the Muslims.

  64. I’ve been told by a Christian Egyptian all these Mosques that are being built in our country are funded by Saudi Arabia. Why don’t they stay in their own country and stop settling in ours? We can’t share our religion in their country but they can freely come here and do so.

  65. I like to play fair so here’s the response to the above video.

  66. Isn’t that what the Taliban band in Afghanistan; Music? Here’s someone documenting the same incident. Are they a liar too?

  67. How many videos do you want posted? There’s enough on both sides to go around.

    • hi kitti

      I think you showed enough videos on the subject. The more videos we post per page, the longer it takes to load for some people. Wait to see if you get any response to what you posted before considering any more. Thanks.

  68. I just think they should go to You Tube themselves. You would be so surprised how many videos there are on these subjects if only they would take the time and research it.

  69. These videos dont change an iota amount of anything.

    Remember that it was Jews during the days of Jesus who were carrying out suicide and terrorist activites against roman governor and their convoys. It was romans who were ruling over the land and jews were on their hit list and Jesus was the most wanted criminal.

    Then read Bible and you will find Moses asking his followers lets kill the cannanites and take their land, was that not a call to Jihad??? How come you guys eulogize jewish/Christian version of Jihad and condemn muslim version of Jihad.

    Then read in bible about David, he was a blood thirsty killer who self-proclaimed that he was tasked to wipe out all other race in the region. He killed women and children. Please read these horror stories in your own bible.

    So the way you guys are approaching things is that this world is a Jungle and whoever has the power can take all for some time, and whenever someone else will have the power then they will come to take over and do the same. All the while I though religion was send to make humans different from animals. It is animals in which alpha male rules for 4 to 6 years and then gets replaced by another alpha male.

    Suzy.

    • Suzy

      You do not know the bible. Only a handful of Jews condemned Jesus, because they feared him. Everyone else in Israel loved him. Thousands of people came to listen to him. He was popular every where he went.

      The land was taken from the Canaanites because they did not deserve it.

      They were lying, evil, murdering, blood thirsty, child sacrificing, idol worshiping pagan animals, who were so violent that God considered them an abomination.

      God ordered them all killed. He even ordered that the children be killed, because the seed of evil had already been planted in them.

      So, it is actually a SHAME to be considered one of the Canaanites.

      Today, we see the same behavior, and God has promised that Gaza will one day belong to the Jewish tribe of Judah, and all Gazans will be gone forever. God calls them a “nation NOT desired.” in Zephaniah 2.

      Zep 2:5 Woe unto the inhabitants of the sea coast, the nation of the Cherethites! the word of the LORD [is] against you; O Canaan, the land of the Philistines, I will even destroy thee, that there shall be no inhabitant.

      Zep 2:7 And the coast shall be for the remnant of the house of Judah; they shall feed thereupon: in the houses of Ashkelon shall they lie down in the evening: for the LORD their God shall visit them, and turn away their captivity.

      Zep 2:10 This shall they have for their pride, because they have reproached and magnified [themselves] against the people of the LORD of hosts.

      God has always hated the Canaanites.

      And just because they lived in Israel once, does not entitle them to live there again, especially if they continue to be wicked, sacrificing their children due to a blood lust for power. God does not want them there, and will eventually destroy them all.

      • Marianne,
        Thanks God that you just confessed that the Canaanites were living in the land before the Jews. It is a history that you NEVER change.
        Check this site that proves and shows that there are Canaanites Tombs/Tunnels under Jerusalem Malls:

        http://news.softpedia.com/news/Bronze-Age-Canaanite-Tombs-Under-the-Jerusalem-039-s-Malls-40926.shtml

        The zionists occupied the land and killed many Canaanites.
        My dear, what you are taking about God is really funny. He is more than hating his creatures and taking personal attitude against them :) He is more than what you could imagine. The Canaanites existed in the land before prophet Abraham (who was originally from Iraq) and whose kids are the grandfathers of the jews.
        The Canaanite civilization has been highly recognized and their influence into the humanity no one denies it. I do not know from where you get such wrong information my dear.
        The jews will be gathered into Palestine again and this is God desire, you know why? because they all will die there as God will send to them strong people who will enter the land as they already entered in the first time and will destroy Israel. That will take place in 2022 year.

        • Mahmoud

          The property belongs to God, not the Canaanites. They are wicked.

          God grants the property to whom he wishes.

          God commanded that all of the Canaanites be killed, but the Israelites disobeyed, and then God told them that they would return as a curse to them.

          So, now they are a curse to Jews and everyone.

          God does not want the Canaanites there. He wants them destroyed and this will happen soon. if the Jews don’t do it, God will do it himself.

          • If God is similar to what you described then I do not want to believe on God.
            This is a mean behavior of God and God can NEVER be like this.
            All the jews will be kicked out of Palestine and the land will get freed to the palestinians. Your jews will go back to the countries they came from like Russia, Germany, US, UK, ….etc and the land will get back to the Canaanites descendants which are the palestinians.

            • Mahmoud

              I think what you do not understand is the holiness and justice of God.

              God punishes the wicked and rewards the good. He gives us all a chance to repent, and fix our lives and obey him.

              If we choose good, then he will forgive us.

              The Canaanites are wicked, and are not sorry for their sins. So he cannot forgive them, if they are not sorry.
              Their future is up to them, but God already knows their choice is not for him.

              God has been very patient for many centuries with people who are wicked. he sent Jesus to teach people to be good, and to love god. But many people do not care, and they want to be evil.

              It would be unfair for God to allow sin and wickedness to go punished. If God rewarded evil people, then this would mean that he is evil also.

              This would also mean that God is not fair. It is fair to punish evil, to make it stop. it is fair to reward the good people.

              This truth not only applies to the one state of Israel – with the jews and palestinians…

              It applies to all of us.

              The bible says that ALL people have sinned and fallen short of the glory of god. NONE of us are perfect. It is up to us to be sorry for our sins, and choose holiness, not evil.

        • Mahmoud,

          Read Revelations…it tells you how it ends-and G-D and HIS people WIN! Jesus, G-D’s son, will RULE THE ENTIRE EARTH FROM JERUSALEM! EVERY KNEE WILL BOW AND EVERY TONGUE CONFESS (THAT INCLUDES YOU AND SUZY) THAT JESUS CHRIST IS LORD!

      • hope this isn’t a stupid question….does G-D hate the Canaanites because of Cain? They came from his seed? The first to murder?

  70. Suzy,
    Your post has made my day :)

  71. So killing of Cannanites is based on religion. Exactly same reason is given by Muslims when they say Jews should all be killed. Their God tells them Jews are no Good and they should be uprooted once for all, just like Cannanites. So which version will succeed only time can tell.

    However one thing is for sure that God in Bible is not consistent, it changes it’s nature whenever it feel like. It asks to wage Jihad against Cannanites and later it talks of love for everybody without any sword.

    When you read Gospel it seems like an 8th grader has written a travelogue. There is no guidance for people in it, it simply eulogizes Jesus. Jesus the show-man keeps performing witch doctory to cure people, no wonder they finally got hold of him and had him slain.

    Gospels are a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of something unknown. Moreover nobody knows who saint paul was, there is no sufficient information about saint paul therefore one can easily cast doubt about his existence. Actually same can be said of Jesus also. There is no detailed biographical account available about these two crazy witch-doctors, whatever little information that exists is from theology only which is not sufficient.

    God never intended anything called Christianity. Christianity is a man made religion. Christianity is actually combination of Judaism and hellinism.

    Suzy.

    • Suzy,

      Since you have no religion, I would not expect you to understand the will of God. You are an unbeliever, so I do not expect an unbeliever to believe anything.

      There is no proof for what you say. You are very confused.

      God destroys the wicked, and loves those who love Him.

      the Canaanites are wicked, and they will be destroyed in the near future.

    • the “god” of the muslims is LUCIFER…he knows his time is short and he is desperate to wipe the jews from the face of the earth, for he knows they are G-D’s chosen. Lucifer is trying to gain Jerusalem because in his delusion, he thinks he can beat Jesus to the throne and rule from Jerusalem himself-it ain’t gonna happen. At the last minute, when all of Jerusalem is surrounded, the sky breaks open and every knee will bow and every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord! He will defend Israel once again and this time IN PERSON! Jesus will step down upon the Mount of Olives and the whole topography will change due to a huge earthquake. Jesus will RULE FROM JERUSALEM for a 1000 years…and all the nations/people will be required to travel to Jerusalem to honor the feasts of the Lord…..just so ya know..:)

  72. All secular christians agree that there is no sufficient material available to prove outrightly the existence of Jesus and Saint Paul. Actually Saint Paul use to take great pride in persecuting Christians and finally he slaughtered Christianity by introducing Hellinistic ideas such as son-god, divinity, atonement and original sin.
    All the names such as Matthew, Mark, John and James are all English language names. All the while in that time Aramaic language was spoken. Tell how come the names became english??? These names are not aramaic names.
    In one month you will agree with me as I have solid evidence of what I say.

    Suzy.

    • Suzy

      There is no such thing as a secular Christian. Paul repented of his sin of persecution, and spent his life promoting Christianity.

      Again, you do not understand the bible.

      Names are for each language. In English, I am Marianne. In Spanish, I am Maria Anna. I Hebrew or Aramaic, I am Miriam.

  73. So you are basing your entire trust on saint paul. What if he never existed then on Day of judgement what excuse will you give to god for following a man-made religion????

    People are actually duped into religion. People themselves never do any serious research into the subject matter. Imagine that Billions of people following a religion made by a person who’s existence cannot be outrightly proven.

    You see if $5 is at stake then you would certainly not worry, but if $5,000,000 is at stake then you will certainly worry and would only want to trust your very close relative with such large money, and how about if life of your son is at stake, then you will worry the most and will only trust a reputable doctor. On similar line when it comes to religion it is life eternal which is at stake, when such a big thing is at stake then one does not trust a person who’s own identity is not sure to exist. Just take a pause and think about it.

    Suzy.

    • hi Suzy

      No. I am not putting my trust in Saint Paul.

      I am putting my trust in Jesus. It is His way and path that I follow.

      I have a personal relationship with Jesus. He has made himself known to me. I know who he is, and he has my love and respect.

      I also love God, and respect His ways, and I hate evil.

      Jesus is real. I have met him in a vision. I have felt his presence and seen his miracles for myself.

      • I have also met Jesus! Jesus reveals Himself to whomever will ask! Gavriel, a former atheist jew also met Him!

    • I would bet all that I am and have on the Most High G-D, HIS SON and Sweet Holy Spirit. G-D is more real than the very computer you are typing on. G-D-in HIS scriptures, declared the end from the beginning…He did this even in the very first sentence of Genesis 1:1…It is only by Diving Providence that this was done-No human is even capable of doing such a thing…see the below video and it will show you. G-D proves Himself every single day by the very breathe that you breathe, the DNA helix within your body, the trees, the sky the earth….He is bigger and more real then our minds could ever possibly come close to comprehending.

  74. Oh Goodness, that perverted witch-doctor is not leaving people alone after he died. Be very careful, dont let him come to you while you are not decent (u know what I mean)…..

    Existence of Jesus is in as much doubt as Saint Paul’s existence, there is no real difference.

    Actullay unless one provides substantial biogrpahical information of a person outside theological sources one cannot be sure if that person existed. One cannot rely on feeling of perverted spirits, we live is age of science and we want hardcore proof of existinece which can be verified from source outside theology.

    Sweety dont be hasty in believeing perverted witch doctors.

    Suzy.

  75. Honey we dont need to buy what men of old use to write, now we women are emancipated and should no more fall in trap of men and their silly bible.

    I work in strip club, a very empowering feeling one gets in such a job. I can arrange a job for you if you are interested, there is a vacancy open.

    Suzy.

    • Suzy

      I will pray for you.

      I am free in Jesus. I hope someday you will be also.

      The kind of freedom Jesus offers will last forever, and you do not have to make yourself indecent to get it.

      You just have to accept his love for you

  76. Sweety I know for now you are smitted with a jerk but I give you some time, once you are done with him then I will help you meet some nice guy, who will take good care of you and will make you happy both physically and emotionally.

    Suzy.

    • suzy,

      You don’t have to sell your body and ultimately your soul in order to be “loved”. It isn’t love, it is lust. And men will use you over and over and over and NEVER Love you! If you are that deeply wounded within your spirit, the only man who will sincerely LOVE YOU is Jesus Christ! He will heal your hurts and wounds caused by men and will lift you up off the ground of dust of where you are and will allow you to be able to respect yourself for the first time in your life. Have you seen “the passion”, the movie that Mel gibson put out? Despite his shortcomings, the movie was incredible and one of the most touching parts in that movie is where Jesus steps forth, the ground trembles, as He approaches Mary Magdeline who is being stoned by the same men she had most likely shared a bed with. He takes her hand and lifts her up!!!! To everyone else she is a nothing but a whore, but they use her anyway…but to Jesus she is FORGIVEN and made whole!

      • Lyndsey,

        You are just jealous that I have so many lovers. You should come and see how they cant take their eyes off of me.

        Suzy.

  77. Ladies, just calm down :)
    Suzy, pass me your email on mrabi80@gmail.com :D

  78. It looks like my website has turned into a dating site. Oh well, I like to think that good things always happen here.

  79. Well, call it the way you like but the Suzy’s views are really more realistic and logical to mankind. Since you started this site and your views/comments are really aggressive and represent that Jews are the only race that has right to live!! where others are basically pieces of shits and should not have the rights to live.
    God bless you and bless your jews :)

    Between, if your views/comments were like Suzy’s then I would have asked for your email earlier ;)

    Mahmoud,

    • Mahmoud

      You are entitled to your views.

      I do not insist however, that Jews are the only ones entitled to live. I think they are falsely accused, so I defend them, but I would do this for another group as well.

      The only ones who will eventually be eliminated by God are those who rebel against him, and this is a choice each person makes.

      I wish you well.

  80. God will show them and touch their hearts someday and somehow.. Let them rant all they want but God has his wisdom. :) I am behide you, Marianne. I am only watching as usual. lol

  81. Ladies,
    Please do not get confused. My essential point is not to relate everything to God, Jesus and Religions because simply across the globe there are millions of people who do not believe in God, prophets and religions. Their assumptions are based on science and physics so what the Bible says won’t shake their faith on their beliefs.

    Ms. Marinne,
    Whenever a person creates a forum for people to share their views, he/she should be neutral and try to deliver the idea behind the forum in such way that does not hurt others’ feeling and humiliate them regardless to their nation and race. The way you are following is absolutely against the humanity and mankind because it carries the real meaning of racism.

    God judges on the person and NOT on the nation and all those who believe in God agree on this.
    If it is the case that God judges based on the nation, then we all should become jewish and fool God by saying that:
    Hey God.. I am jewish now.. I will do all the sins but I know that at the end you love me so much God and you will kick the asses of other nations and leave us living in peace.. by the way God, why the hell did you create other nations, do not you calim that you know the fate..!!! lool

    Marinne, that will be your God if everyone agrees on what you say about him.

    Unfortunately you have very narrow/limited views because you rely on one 2 resources which are:

    1- Your Bible
    2- Your God

    Consider point 1:
    With all my respect yo your Bible but there are many resources confirming that the your Bible was modified and changed. There are also some copies which contradict themselves so that makes it an untrustful source of the truth.

    Point 2:
    Well, this is simple.. God judges on nation rather than a person so WHAT A GOD :)
    It is obvious that the Jewish God (based on your views) made a mistake by creating other nations and now he does not know how to get rid of them so he is entitling Israel of carrying on this mission.. agiain WHAT A GOD!! (based on your views).!!

    God actually is more than what your limited brain can imagine. Sorry to say it but I am trying to wake you up.

    Better to close this site or keep it only for jewish so they could cook the ideas on their mission of killing others so they remain the only nation breathing in this globe.

    God Bless you and bless your Israel.

  82. Mahmoud

    I give myself the same right I give others – to express one’s view.

    Not all sites allow disagreement with the administrator. They just block the comments. So I am really a nice person. :)

    God judges the individual on their sins, but he can also judge a group as a collective unit, and this is seen in scripture.

    He judged Israel when it was wrong (so there is no safety in being Jewish), and he also judged Babylon and other nations when they were wrong as well.

    When there is no individuality, and everyone acts and thinks the same sin, then they all get punished together as a unit.

    In a nation that allows individuality, you will see some punished and some spared.

    The Word of God – the bible – has always been the same. Modern text matches ancient records. There is no proof, only silly accusations to the contrary.

    The INTERPRETATION at times has been in error.

    All nations will be judged by God, and no individual will escape the judgment. They will either have personal sin, or sin they shared with others.

  83. Suzy and Mahmoud;

    Give me your scenario of how you would like this situation over there resolved. I’d like to hear it.

  84. Hi All,

    I have to admit that Marianne is an excellent host and administrator, she has allowed us to post our view uncensored. If she was around me I would give her two kisses, one on her left cheek and other on her right, she deserves it.

    Anybody who wants to shares ideas my eamil is rrsusan@yahoo.com

    We need to get some basics right first before we solve the brewing problem in middle east otherwise our only earth will die. Let me state some basics here:

    1. If there is God then I’m sure he is God to everybody and wishes them all well. It is just like a mother who has four sons, one white, one chinese, one african and one arab. Not all her sons are equal in good looks and not all her sons are equal in good work yet she loves them all.

    2. Due to Globalization there cant be multiple paths to GOd anymore cuz if there are multiple paths in current times then that mean confusion and chaos. I know for sure God cannot be an author of confusion, I know this because that big scientist Einstein said it to my great granny (i’m not trying to expose his personal life here though he was a digger but not a dagger).

    3. SO we need to first establish what is the correct way to God and if there is not correct way to God then we must all become atheist. So the study begins by scrutinizing each major religion one by one.

    For study let’s take Christianity first since it has highest number of adherents. Now instead of listing all the cons at one time we should look at one con at a time. So the first CON is:

    1. Let’s look at Gospel of Matthew Chapter 1. You will see it does not but forcefully try to establish connection between Jopseph and Abraham. Since Joseph is considered to be a step father of Jesus therefore indirectly Jesus is related to Abraham. I find this utter non-sense cuz Joseph had no blood relation with Jesus. I believe Chapter 1 of Matthew of Gospel is man made and is a desparate attempt to connect Jesus to Abraham, which utterly fail though.

    Please restrict your response to Gospel of Matthew Chapter 1.

    Suzy.

    • hi Suzy

      You cannot look at Matthew 1 without also looking at Luke 3.

      Matthew 1 gives the genealogy through Joseph and Luke 3 gives the genealogy through Mary. Both are important.

      Joseph’s is important because it has to show his lineage is fit to serve as a guardian over the Messiah.

      Both lineages show that both the mother and the stepfather are from the house or lineage of David.

      If you compare both lineages, you will also see that they have other relatives in common.

      Joseph and Mary are from the same family, so are distant relatives of each other.

      Therefore, Joseph is actually blood related to Jesus.

  85. Come on now be serious. Luke 3 doesnt even have a word Mary in it. It simply says Jesus son of Joseph, son of Heli, son of Matthat, son of ……

    Please dont try to be tricky here, there are intelligent people in the herd. You can fool some but not all.

    Please provide a better answer or admit defeat so that we can move to 2nd flaw in christianity. If you do not provide a satisfactory answer then score will become 1-0.

    If you cannot defend Matthew chapter 1 then what will you defend, :).

    Suzy.

    • Suzy, Marianne,

      Where does it say that Jesus has to be of the lineage of David?

      Messiah is called SON OF DAVID, which in hebrew actually means that he has to be David’s direct son, because “SON OF” in hebrew never implies to someone’s lineage, but man’s direct offspring;

      In modern science it became possible to clone Pharaohs who lived 5,000 years ago using their DNA…so if God promised David that future redeemer would be his son in, why couldn’t God use David’s DNA to produce him offspring in distant future? This is the only way to reconcile Isaiah’s prophecy that Messiah would be born of a virgin and that he would be David’s offspring at the same time! (Yes, Almah in hebrew means virgin and nothing else);

      So, it’s very possible that David and Jesus had the same DNA, BTW very likely that the third person to walk on earth in the same body as David and Jesus will be Antichrist;

      Also, acc. to Jewish oral tradition, David was not really Jesse’s physical son, and that Jesse was his stepfather – this is why Jesse didn’t bring David to Samuel and said that he showed Samuel ALL of his sons, when David wasn’t even in the room yet, and David was a man after God’s OWN heart…it is very likely that God produced David just like he did Jesus;

      This is why Antichrist wants to sit in the Temple of God, and we all know that Temple of God is literally body of Jesus;

      • Now why would Mathew mention Joseph’s lineage, according to Jewish tradition it would be embarrassing and unlawful that KING and MESSIAH of the Jews would be raised and parented by simple family, KING has to come from the ROYAL family and it would be dishonoring that even Jesus’ stepfather would be from non-royal family; There are thousands of descendants of David among Jews today, House of David is very large, just like it was in the time of Jesus.

      • Hi Gavriel

        I thought it was clear from prophecy that Messiah would come from the line of David. It would not make sense for Messiah to be called “son of David” if he was not related to David.

      • BTW very likely that the third person to walk on earth in the same body as David and Jesus will be Antichrist; HUH?

        Jesus’ ascended in His own body….His body was never left here on earth…

        • I do not understand what Gavriel meant either.

        • lyndsey,

          Didn’t Jesus have slightly different body after ressurection? I think this was the reason why two women didn’t recognize him.

          Marianne,

          In contrast, I think Jesus was literally “son of David” supernaturally produced by God using David’s semen or his DNA – in which case he would be clone of him;

          I read, that devil will try to produce Antichrist through wickedness – using blood of Jesus and his dna – which could be preserved, for example through Shroud of Turin, this is just a theory, but gives new meaning to devil sitting in the literal Temple (body) of God;

          • When I think of a spiritual, rather than physical, interpretation, I think of satan living in the body of believers.

            I do not see how the devil could clone Jesus Dna.

            He would only have 11 autosomes, instead of 22, and a Y for a male. God could create life from this deficient state, but not sure what the devil will be allowed to do.

            • Acc. to Jewish legend Armilus (Antichrist) is been born of Satan and the marble statue of a woman in Rome…describes kind of unnatural way of how Antichrist is produced – of course, if blood of Jesus is used it won’t be perfect image of Jesus, but kind of imitation;

              I heard that Prince William was given birth this way, and the way he is getting old too fast seem to indicate at this.

    • Suzy

      Look again.

      Joseph, husband of Mary in Matthew 1, is the son of Jacob. verse 16

      Verse 16 is very clear that this is the lineage of the HUSBAND of Mary only…….

      in Luke 3, Jesus is said to be (physically) son of Joseph (a different one) who is the son of Heli verse 23

      so, Mary’s father was also named Joseph.

      So, Jesus is the stepson of Joseph (husband of Mary), and grandson of Jacob on his stepfather’s side.

      Jesus is also the grandson of a different Joseph, and great grandson of Heli (on Mary’s side of the family)

      I guess the 2 Josephs make it confusing.

      If Marys’ father had been named Fred, it might have helped here, and been easier to understand.

      In Hebrew tradition, they always say the son of, to mean the actual son, or the grandson, or the great grandson……

      they do not always say the mothers’ name, which in this case, could have made it clearer

    • what exactly needs defending?

  86. It would only be fair to say that:

    1. Luke 3 does not say he talks of a different Joseph, so inventing a 2nd Joseph does not help.

    2. Luke 3 never tries to give maternal lineage in the form of partileneal style, remember it does not mention Mary at all. It never says Mary daughter of heli, son of …., son of …..

    3. You are clearly putting words in the mouth, so to say. OR you are filling the gaps with what you want it to be.

    4. This is where I tell you it is all man-made, so whenever one lie is exposed it has to be covered with a 2nd lie and the chain goes on……..

    5. If it is all man-made then why dont you guys just use Fred in Luke instead of Joseph OR mention that it is a 2nd Joseph or use proper wording.

    6. You see it all came from greek. It has been moving from one language to other and it has been copy of a copy of a copy of unknown.

    7. It is always will of God which sould reign supreme. God does not have to send messiah as per the wishes of people, GOd chooses whatever he chooses and he does not goes nuts over trying to prove the lineage. The scripture is a guidance for ordinary man and God nevers indulges in detailed lineage, at the most if it is so important he would say this Messiah is from the house of David, that’s all. When someone goes way out of the line and produces lineage from 50 generations then it becomes suspicious that somebody is desperate to connect Jesus to David, and it is only human who would have such a wish.

    8. In Matthew 1 and Luke 3, there is no guidance for mankind, all it talks about it the lineage. When God sends scripture his motive is to guide mankind and he does waste time in doing so, he does waste time in jotting down lineage from 50 generations.

    9. Luke 3 is a bigger hoax than Matthew 1.

    You guys have utterly failed in defending the very first thing in Gospel (yeah right invent a 2nd Joseph and keep inventing). I would say the score stands at 1-0. I will post the second flaw in Christianity in my next post, try to do better on that one. Although I think if one cannot defend the first page of GOspel then there is really no need to fo further.

    Suzy.

    • SUZY

      They are 2 different men named Joseph….go back and re- read the passages.

      One named Joseph is the son of Jacob

      The other one named Joseph is the son of Heli.

      So this means they are 2 different people that happen to have the same name.

      in Jewish tradition, they do not give the name of the mother, only the father, when giving genealogy.

      You are having a contest with me, :) , but I just want you to understand what you are reading.

  87. Okay, now we move to CON 2 or Flaw 2 In Gospel of Matthew (remember the score being 1-0 in my favor).

    I read chapter 1 to 4 of Gospel(Matt), there is no guidance in these 4 chapetrs for mankind, the only thing that it does is Eulogize Jesus and John. These 4 chapters are full of unncessary verbage. Such cannot be the style of writing of God. However my question w.r.t 2nd flaw is not this.

    The 2nd Flaw is following:

    1. Matthew 4 shows that Jesus is under the influence of devil. He is talking with a devil and devil is taking him to various places. How do we know he was not under the influence of Devil all along???? How do we know it was not devil who appeared some time as spirit, some time as angel and some time as devil???

    If devil can control him once then he can control him whenever he feels like.

    The devil controlling jesus casts doubt over the credibility of who he is and what he has done.

    Trying doing a better job in defending flaw2.

    Suzy.

    • SUZY

      You do not understand the bible, which is clear that Jesus may have encountered the devil, just like we all do, but he was victorious over him. He always won the debate. The devil lost.

      Jesus allowed the devil to approach him to
      1. experience what we do when the devil bothers us.
      2. tell the devil he is Lord over him.

      The passage shows that the Word of God, which Jesus used, can overcome the devil.



      I have the impression that English is not your native language, which might explain why you do not understand what you are reading.

  88. Please note that before Krishna and Bacchus began their ministries they were required to kill a serpent or devil, OR overcome a serpent or devil. These are pagan ritual and thoughts and you can read pagan history, you will find that whenever their hero began anything he showed his might by first overpowering a Serpent.

    So there is no doubt left that Greek and Roman pagan ideas infiltrated Christianity, cuz according to you yourself the first labor Jesus went through was overcoming a serpent.

    However I believe what kind of leader would first go and meet devil before he begins his ministry??? Clearly after meeting the serpent only that jesus was able to start the witch-doctory.

    Now the score has become 2-0 in my favor. We move to the next flaw in christianity, which is Flaw 3 and I will mention it in my next post.

    Suzy.

    • Jesus overcame the devil himself, not a snake.

      Those other stories are fairy tales.

      The story of Jesus is real.

      2-0 my favor :) since you like games.

  89. Okay here is Flaw 3, and please do a better job of defending this one:

    1. In Gospel of Matthew 19:11, Jesus encourages his disciples to castrate themselves!!!, Does this make any sense? Evidently it did make sense to 3rd century theologian Origen, who castrated himself for “the sake of kindom of heaven”. Will your husband castrate himself for the sake of kingdom in heaven???

    2. Matthew 19:11 is not the only time jesus is interested in Genitals. In many places in Bible Circumcision is talked.

    3. Also there is one place in bible where Jesus asks to cut off the hand of a woman who while trying to save her husband hits your genitals.

    So you see that Jesus is very much interested in Gentials, again and again.

    Please defend it.

    Suzy.

    • Suzy

      It will do me no good to give you the correct answer, unless you try to understand it.

      Matthew 19 is talking about marriage and divorce, not genitals.

      He is saying it is better now to get married at all, than to go through a marriage, then a divorce, then a remarriage.

      I think anyone who has been through a divorce will agree with that.

      Then he mentions those who do not get married, because they have been castrated – either they were born defective, or they were made that way by slave masters. Since they do not get married (no one would want them) they do not have the problem of divorce or adultery.

      verse 13 comments that the kingdom of heaven is best entered if we make ourselves as innocent and trusting as children.

      Children are very blessed and acceptable to God because of their innocence.

      Entering the kingdom of God does not require castration. The bible just says we have to avoid sin.

  90. Well, the word used in verse 12 is Eunuch, which means ” Castrated man”, you can check this meaning in the dictionary.

    And in verse 13 of Matt 19 says that it is better to be eunuch as doing so one will enter kingdom of heaven.

    There is no 2nd meaning to what I have explained. Now the score has beomes 3-0 in my favor and I will post Flaw 4 in my next post.

    Suzy.

    • yes I know what eunuch means. You do not understand english.

      I already explained that, and you are refusing to understand the truth.

      Yes, it is better to be a eunuch and be innocent, than to have a normal body, and commit adultery, and go to hell.

      But eunuchs can also be guilty of other sins, and not go to heaven either.

      You have lost each point, because you refuse to listen to the truth.

      Unless you accept the explanations, there is no reason for me to give them to you. I know what I am talking about, and I understand this much better than you do.

  91. The Flaw 4 is following:

    1. Matt 4:8 says that devil took Jesus to the highest mountain from where he showed all the kingdoms of the world.

    Now tell me which mountain is high enough to make you see all the kingdoms of the world?????

    Suzy.

    • It does not matter which mountain it was.

      Both Jesus and the devil have supernatural natures, and are capable of open visions.

      They were having a vision of the kingdoms of the world.

      None of your questions so far indicate flaws. It just indicates you do not understand what is written. I am trying to explain the supernatural to you, but I do not know how much you can grasp it.

  92. You bombed on flaw 4. Now score stands at 4-0 in my favor.

    Let’s take a break, I will post Flaw 5 after a day’s break.

    Dont forget to go to Church on coming Sunday and enjoy the sermon.

    Suzy.

    • Suzy

      Since you refuse to understand points 1-4, do not post any more questions, until you understand the first 4 explanations.

      Otherwise discussion is useless.

      When you are ready to learn and understand, I will help you.

      If you post question #5 without first showing comprehension of what i have already told you, I will not respond to you, because it would be a waste of my time.

      I will delete further questions, until you show a willingness to learn.

  93. Dear Marianne,

    You have been very helpful in explaing points 1-4. I hope you will continue providing help with future points. You are providing a remarkable online ministry.

    I learned a lot so far, and would like to continue learning more.

    Talk to you later.

    Suzy.

  94. Remember the objective of this debate was to solve the mid-east crisis inturn to save out mother earth. If after the debate it turns out that Christianity is a man-made religion then we will have to debunk it altogether. Then I will send letters to UN to initiate the debunking process.

    Dont worry we will repeat the process with all religions and whichever turns out to be man-made we will debunk it.

    I am mobilizing people in the upper echolons of all societies to carry out the movement of banning all man-made religions. Hopefully we will all become atheist in near future and hence save our mother earth from destruction.

    Suzy.

    • hi Suzy

      I think you are hoping that “man made religion” can be replaced by “man made governments.”

      In the long run, you still have something man made. It will still fail.

      Saving the earth from destruction is a noble effort. But man will continue to destroy it, if he has no morals or ethics to follow that govern his behavior.

      There are “ethical atheists,” and there are atheists who are not ethical at all.

      So how do you control their behavior, if they follow their own rules?

      Most leaders in this world are already atheists, and they are morally and politically corrupt.

      They lie, they steal, they want to blow up other countries. They rob the poor.

      They do not want to change. How do you solve this dilemma? Ask them to leave office? How do you get them to do that?

    • Suzy,

      Have you thoroughy read the scriptures from the Holy Bible? Have you translated the words FROM English back to the original language of Hebrew and Greek? By doing at least 1 of the above, you will clearly see that THE G-D of Israel; The G-D of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is the ONLY G-D that Has declared the END FROM THE BEGINNING…Everything within the scriptures pertaining to prophecy has been completed or yet to be completed with at least 90% already having been completed/Proven/come to pass!

      Regarding Noah’s Ark, Mt Sinai and Golgotha (the place where Jesus/Yeshua was crucified, these have all been found/proven through Archaelogical digs/evidence.

      Noah’s Ark is Turkey
      Mt Sinai is in Saudi Arabia, along with all the other archaelogical finds mentioned in the scriptures…

      I don’t have to defend G-Ds word, for He clearly has shown Himself to be the ONE and ONLY TRUE G-D. G-D is spirit and it was His Holy Spirit who led/guided/influenced the apostles who wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls/Holy Bible. Therefore, combining all of the above, it has been PROVEN that Judaism is NOT a MAN-MADE Religion, nor is Christianity which was founded upon Judaism-Judaism being the FOUNDATION of Christianity.

    • Man Made religions to be debunked:

      too many to list but here are a few…

      Islam
      Hinduism
      Buddhism
      Catholicism
      Baptist
      Methodist
      Protestant

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religions_and_spiritual_traditions

      pretty much all religions are man-made EXCEPT for Judaism…I believe this is the one that G-D made! and being that Christianity has Judaism as its foundation…then Christianity and Judaism stay. :)

  95. Was it all male society or all female society there would be no concept of nudity! Similarly if there is no God then there is no concept of morality, then everything is dictated by rules and laws. Those who break the laws and rules go to prison. And Yes then rule of Jungle will be adopted, whoever has the power takes the center stage (you are familiar with this one even with a religion! ha ha ha).

    However before we move towards atheisthood we have to make an earnest effort to find out if there exists and God-sent religion or not.

    Suzy.

    But before

    • Suzy

      If you look at the history and current governments who are openly atheistic, and enforce discrimination against religion, you will find the power and money in the hands of a few, and the rest of the people suffer. Examples are Russia and China.

  96. Osiris, Hercules, Mithra, Hermes, Prometheus, Perseus and others compare to the Christian myth. All these men had following in common:

    1. They all had God as a father
    2. They were born of the virgin
    3. They fasted 40 days
    4. They overpowered a serpent
    5. They met violent death
    6. They resurrected from dead
    7. They were worshiped by wise men
    8. There birth was announced by a star
    9. They got born around the solstice (25 December)

    Does this not all sound eerily familiar with Story of Jesus???? This is what creates doubt that Christianity is either man-made or got adulterated by Greek and Roman pagan ideas.

    Now keeping regard to your sensitivity I will not use the word FLAW or CON, I will call it a point or Point #.

    So Point 5 is following:

    1. Matthew 27:5 says that Judas died by hanging, however this is contradicted by Acts 1:18. How come within same bible you have two versions of death????

    Please explain???

    Suzy.

    • Suzy,

      First prophet to live on earth was Adam; Adam, through his descendants, passed down the tradition about God’s purpose for universe, which would be established in the future by Redeemer of mankind; Adam passed to his descendants until Noah, Noah passed to his descendants until Abraham, forefather of Messiah, Abraham’s children through Moses received blueprint for salvation which would be established by Messiah; Abraham also gave this tradition to his 10 children which he sent with (spiritual) gifts to the far east, who established religion of Brahmanism (or A-Brahmanism) in India, which included tales about Heavenly Redeemer;

      Therefore, paganism is distorted version of monotheism, not the other way round;

      Plan of redemption is even written by God in the star and constellation, future destiny of Jesus was known from the moment of creation, ancient prophets knew this and pagans also adapted this knowledge, hence you have similar traditions in all religions…see how plan of redemption is written in the stars telling the same story, long before these pagan religions existed:

      http://www.mazzaroth.com/index.htm#ChapterFour

      • Humans have the ability to mix religion with paganism and thus they create a third things which is mixture of both in a twisted way. But who said this is a one way street, why would only religion influence pagan ideas. No it is two-way street in which the distorted paganism (which is mix to two) inturn influence the proceeding religion.

        And if you read history Judaism has beenlosing jews all along. Somewhere around 300 BC Alexander conquered the area and forced hellenism on that area. So the outskirts of Jewish land was heavily influenced by Hellenism. Jewish people had started to dress in greek way and they start inter-marriages. This is where Hellenism mixed with Judaism. Later Rome came along and its ideas also got absorbed in already cooked mixture of Judaism and Hellenism. SO it the end it became mixture of Judaism + Hellenism + Roman Paganism.

        Also note that Saint Paul did not find success in his preaching in Jewsih-proper land. So he went about preaching in areas which had influence of Hellenism. To make them listen to his preaching he introduced hellenistic ideas and this is where Gentiles atarted to buy Christianity.

        Suzy.

        • Suzy

          Paul was not called to the Jews, but to the gentiles. He may have used their system to explain things, but he did not change the faith into something it wasn’t. He came to explain Jesus to them.

    • SUzy

      The death of Judas was obviously no observed by anyone. They came to the conclusions they did by discovering his body, and then assuming what happened.

      If he was in the middle of a field, then how does he hang himself? Maybe there was a tree that he could throw a rope over. I am not sure how, because there are not enough details of his death, only the conclusions that he died there. Acts also gives other details, that he fell, and dropped so hard that his bowels fell out. So, he must have been standing up high on something to begin with.

      It sounds like this was a failed self hanging attempt, and he fell off whatever he was standing on, fell forward, and his abdomen hit something like a rock, and his insides burst out.
      This would make the 2 accounts consistent with each other.

      as for the similarities in myths and Jesus:

      The story of the Messiah had been told from one generation to another since Adam. The zodiac in the sky foretold the Messianic promise. That was the original intent of the zodiac, since God establishes patterns throughout nature to show his glory and to remind man of his promises. The rainbow is another example of this.

      The myths perpetuated it with variations, but only Jesus fulfilled the prophecy. Jesus was a real historical figure, and his life is documented by both Jewish and Roman historians.

      The december 25 birth was a tradition establish by the Romanized church. It is not true. Jesus was born in September of 3 BC.

    • Looks to me that Paul, in Acts 1:18, just went into more detail as to what happened to Judas, whereas in Matthew, we are given the short version.

      The books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are all about the same thing, only they are giving their version-some are “short version” and some are “long version…more detailed”

  97. Bowels dont come out when one falls headlong! Did they not find peice of rope around his neck? OR did they not find peice of rope left handing with the tree? Conjecture is not the same as certainty. This is why early Christians were not allowed to read the Bible, only minister could read to them and this way he gave his own interpretation.

    Now we move to point 6:

    1. Matthew 28:16-17 says Disciples of jesus worshiped him, Revelation 5:13-14 also says he is worshiped.

    Why is he being worshiped????

    Suzy.

    Lets mover

    • Suzy

      The bible does not say he fell head long.

      It just says they found the body. Like I said his abdomen may have hit a rock which busted it open.

      No one was there when he died…..including you, so you cannot speculate about the details.

      God allows Jesus to be worshiped because Jesus is the son of God. God shares his glory with Jesus.

  98. In King James version of Acts 1:18 says:

    “Now this man bought a field with the reward of his wickedness; and falling headlong he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out”.

    So you see the word headlong is used.

    You mean one has to worship two Gods at one time, Father-God and Son-God. And what happend in next life, will we see two separate God’s sitting at one place, namely, Father-God and Son-God???

    Suzy.

    • Suzy

      Again, no one saw this happen. They just found the body and made observations as to how he died.

      Falling headlong means he fell with his body somewhat straight, not curled up. His body was stretched out flat. His body was laying flat on the ground, and it was not bent, or in a twisted way. It does not mean his head hit the ground first. His entire body seemed to have hit the ground all at the same time. But whatever his belly hit on the ground (like a rock) busted it open.

      If his belly did not hit a rock, then possibly God just cursed him for betraying Jesus and God cursed him, and his belly busted open.

      Again, since no one was there when he died, and just found the body later, they just made a general observation about the body.

      The Father God is God…….Jesus is the spirit “son” of God. God has shared his divine nature with Jesus, so that Jesus could do the miraculous work he did on earth, and so he can return again as the King Messiah in the last days. (The first time he came as the gentle, suffering Messiah)

      But you are right, God allows only Jesus to sit by him in heaven. This is his reward for his work on earth, and has been given to no one else that has ever existed. But the Father is still the God of Jesus.

  99. Point 7:

    The ‘Gospel of Hebrews’ omits the genealogy of Jesus, and it does not record the birth.

    So if Matthew is the translation of the ‘Gospel of Hebrews’, where did Matthew derive his genealogy?

    Suzy

    • The gospel of Matthew is the gospel of Matthew.

      Each of the 4 gospels presents the personal testimony of a witness to the life of Jesus.

      You will find some things they all discuss, and then individual aspects each one chose to focus on.

      It was part of the oral tradition of the Jews, for each person to know his genealogy.

      So, Jesus, Mary and Joseph all knew who their ancestors were.

      This was because the Messiah was to come from the line of king David, and each family had to be able to defend this ancestry back to at least king David, so show their family member had a right to be called the Messiah.

      But traditionally, they have gone farther than that, and traced the family all the way back to Adam.

      Since the Jews did not accept Jesus the first time, and they are still waiting for their Messiah, this tradition of knowing one’s genealogy continues today.

  100. Let me explain my point cuz I think I was too brief and you mistook the point.

    THey say that Gospel of Matthew originally came from Hebrew Gospel of Matthew. To date only peices of Hebew Gospel of Matthew exist. The Hebrew Gospel of Matthew does not contain Genealogy.

    Moreover they say Hewbrew Gospel of Matthew was translated to greek and then to English.

    So the actual question was why is there a difference b/w Hebrew GOspel of Matthew and English GOspel of Matthew??

    But let’s skip this and mover to point 8?

    Point 8:
    Who gave the authorty of Paul to preach??? The only thing known is that something happened to him on the road to Damascus! Is this sufficient proof that we should take his claim seriously???

    Suzy.

    • Suzy

      Who is “they”? You seem to have strange references for some of your thoughts. Unless “they” are bible scholars that have looked at all the ancient records, in person, they are not qualified. True copies of the book of Matthew in its completeness are found in various languages, from early documents, and many are stored in the Vatican library.

      Here is the book of Matthew in Persian. Can you read it? Matthew taught the gospel in Persia before he died.

      Jesus gave the authority to Paul. Paul was already a bible scholar. Today, we would call him PhD. His teachings were profound, and eventually got the approval of the rest of the apostles.

    • Did you read the scriptures Suzy telling what happened to Paul..formerly known as Saul… As Saul, he persecuted the Christians…Jesus stopped him in his tracks on the way to killing more Christians and asked him “why are you perscuting me”..he was then struck blind….then upon his sight being returned to him his name was changed to Paul and it was THEN that he was given the authority to preach-by Jesus himself! The symbolism of his sight being taken away and then return is highly signficant!

  101. Any scholar can stand and say Jesus gave me the authority to preach, shouldnt one ask for a proof???

    Remember that Matt 10:5-15 says not to preach to gentiles?????

    Historians say they have only pieces of Hebrew Gospel of Matthew.

    I dont know persian.

    Suzy.

    • What are the names of the historians?

      The gospel was to be preached first to the Jew, then after Jesus left, to the gentiles as well. Jesus wanted ALL nations to learn his message.

      Jesus said:

      Mar 13:10 And the gospel must first be published among all nations.

      Mar 16:15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

      -

  102. So Gosple of Matthew says not to preach to Gentiles and Gospel of Mark say to preach to Gentiles. Seems like each subsequent Gospel was written to fill the gaps in the preceding Gosple.

    What is Gospel???? Is it word of Father-God OR is it sayings of Son-God??? If it is word of Father-God then no one is allowed to add a word or delete a word and all Gospels should be identical.

    Did Jesus make the mistake of not making his desciples memorize the Gospel??? Wait a minute I just remembered that all his close followers actually died, not of them survived. So this is why the one who later came wrote from hearsay resulting in many Gospels.

    Dont worry about Hebrew GOspel of Matthew, cuz now that Hebrew is revived it is easy to translate English Gospel of Matthew and then say hey here is the Hebrew gospel of Matthew and is exactly identical to English gospel of Matthew.

    Suzy.

    Suzy.

    • Hi Suzy

      Each gospel ( this means “good news”) is written as a personal testimony by each writer. As Jesus taught, the disciples would write things down.

      Just like in a classroom, if you look at notes from different students, you will see differences in what they wrote. The teacher taught the same lesson to all of them.

      But each student will listen to some things, and remember them, and then write down other things. This is not due to inconsistencies of the teacher, it is just due to note taking.

      Each student writes that impresses them as important to remember, or, if the teacher is talking fast, they will miss some points, and will be able to write down other points. Before the test, the students will compare notes, to find out what they missed in class.

      It was the same way with the gospels being written. You need to read all of them to get a better picture of everything that happened.

      example:

      One disciple may have been sent to the market to buy food, and missed an event, while another disciple was present during the event. So the first disciple would have missed that, and did not write it down.

      Then maybe later, the second disciple is sent by Jesus to a town to teach, and misses a lecture, but the first disciple is present to write down what Jesus said.

      This is why you might see some differences. It is all true, but each gospel may not be 100% complete. One writer, John, said there was really no way you could write everything down anyhow.

      Jhn 21:24 This is the disciple which testifies of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.

      Jhn 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.

      The gospel is the teachings and the message of Jesus, who faithfully gave the message from his Father God in heaven.

      The disciples did not need to memorize the gospel- or the story and message of Jesus.

      They were eye witnesses, and just needed their notes to remind them to mention the details to others.

    • If you would Suzy, please reference the scriptures/verses that you are refering to so as show us what you are talking about…this is rule #1 in journalism, psychology papers, english papers etc…

  103. But it is proven that none of the Gospel writers ever saw Jesus. These Gospels were written well after the life of Jesus and his Disciples.

    Although they claim the earliest Gospel to be from 60 or 70 AD but the actual text is from a much later date. It is also proven that that the known writers are not the actual writers and that the existing Gospels were written from a “Q” source, which is to-date unknown.

    There are too many conjectures, assumptions and guesses in Christianity. Although Christians got 17 centuries to fill up all holes and gaps and find a heretical reasoning for problematic questions yet, yet after 17 centuries there are questions which pose serious problems to the very existence of Gospels.

    In olden days people were supprressed to believeing in what the Church told them otherwise they were persecuted but today they are free from Church and hence they can question the very soul of Christianity. One Christian writer quoted it beautifully, he said “Christianity does not have a right leg to stand on, it is standing on the basis of Money and technology, the moment these two are gone it will fall down”.

    Suzy.

    • Suzy

      No, it is NOT proven none of the Gospel writers ever saw Jesus.

      No, it is NOT proven that that the known writers are not the actual writers, and that the existing Gospels were written from a “Q” source, which is to-date unknown.

      There is NO proof of any of that. Someone just wants to slander the bible.

      You are reading garbage information from somewhere.

      Think for a moment!

      Jesus and his followers were 30 years old in about 30 AD. Jesus left, and the followers preached his message for the rest of their lives.

      in 60-70 AD, they would have been about 60-70 years old. In their final years, they finally collect their notes and put everything down before they die.

      What is so hard to understand about that?

      They most likely wrote all this down before that. There is no way people can distinguish 30 AD from 60 AD in evaluating documents. It is too long ago.
      You will always find people who do not want to accept Jesus or Christianity, so they make up garbage and then say their garbage is true.

      I think the catholic church made a mess of doctrine, but true Christianity has always been true.

      That is because the Catholic church does not follow the bible.

      True biblical Christians follow what Jesus said, not what any church says.

      It sounds like you are copying nonsense from a bad source. I am telling you the truth.

    • Well that is a LIE from HELL if I have heard one. It truly amazes me that if anyone truly read the scriptures and of course had a BRAIN in their head (i have to assume the idiot quoted above DID NOT-“One Christian writer quoted it beautifully..”,)they would see how EVERY SINGLE PROPHECY HAS OCCURED WITH THE EXCEPTION OF JUST A FEW YET TO BE SEEN. About 90% of the prophectic WORD OF G-D has come to pass! If this were anyone else they would be heralded as “amazing”…ie, Notradamus…etc. IN ADDITION to the prophecies coming to fruition, there is also ARCHEOLOGICAL EVIDENCE AS WELL…they have found Noah’s Ark; they have found Mt Sinai, with all the altars, and the rock of Hebron split right down the middle! As one young lady stated, ” it is like a map…just read the scriptures and its like reading a map”. To sum this up, in regards to physical evidence of the Bible in order to suit the intellectual requirements of the unbeliever, the scriptures have gone above and beyond proving itself….regarding the revelation of Jesus Christ, His father and Holy Spirit…this is done spiritually-through supernatural means…so I can only challenge you Suzy to take that step of what we “christians” refer to as FAITH and ask G-D and His son and Holy Spirit to reveal themselves to you! …….and we haven’t even begun to discuss ANGELS! suzy, there’s a whole new world out there that you haven’t even BEGUN to see or even know about.

      • I saw an interfaith dialogue where Christian Priest failed Miserbaly and according to his own words he said that he knows that he is unable to defend and had been defeated by miles but then said that he would still be with Christianity cuz of the Prophecies coming true!

        So to me it seems that Christianity is a religion where Prophecy and Miracle are corner stones, there is not much in terms of work/deeds, no wonder then they have to state salavation lies only in receiving Jesus.

        Suzy.

        • Suzy

          One stupid priest who never read the bible is unimportant to us.

          HE should go back and study.

          But he is right, salvation only comes through Jesus.- not Muhammad, or Buddha or anyone else. Only Jesus.

          The bible says that faith without works is dead.

          So we are saved by faith, but we are expected to perform good works as a result of that faith.

        • There are no christian “priests”…only priests from catholicism who follow the “catholic books” which were RE-written by Priests-the catholic church took it upon themselves to RE-WRITE the HOLY SCRIPTURES! They even changed the true sabbath from Friday eve to SUNDAY.

          G-D is NOT a RELIGION! To have a RELATIONSHIP with Him outweighs RELIGION! You can’t intellectualize G-D. G-D is the creator of the universe and to try to understand Him within our own intellectual limititations is a waste of time. However, G-D did bestow if only a portion of this understanding within a select few…namely, Sir Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein.

          I HATE religion and choose NOT to have any part of it. I do choose, however, to diligently seek G-d in order to drawer closer to Him and to understand Him. This is the ONLY WAY to truly come to know HIM….it won’t be through a “priest”, “pastor” “bishop” whoever…MAN has MADE his own doctrine-his OPINION-thru his intellectual limitations-of who G-D is and what He is about…to follow the MAN MADE DOCTRINE/OPINIONS is a complete waste of time and energy.

          The only TRUE word of G-d is in the original writings of the Dead Sea Scrolls, of which the apostles wrote BY THE HOLY SPIRIT. Think about it…thru the inspiration and guidance of the HOLY SPIRIT, the men who wrote the scriptures described events that would not take place until over hundreds, and thousands of years later…this has withstood the test of time!

    • I believe the “Q” source is the Qumran-as stated by Marianne, this is the cave of where they found the original Dead Sea Scrolls.

    • “Christianity does not have a right leg to stand on, it is standing on the basis of Money and technology, the moment these two are gone it will fall down”.

      This SHOULD READ…”Man Made DOCTRINE does not have a right leg to stand on….(MAN MADE DOCTRINE) is standing on the basis of Money and Technology…..

  104. I am just trying to make some sense as I’m sure God does not want non-sense followers who follow without thinking.

    1. In those days people did not live up to be 60 or 70.

    2. Jesus had 12 Disciples and none of them lived long, it is recorded that all died soon after Jesus.

    3. Now taking your example of students taking notes from a teacher. I agree that some students would write more and others would write less and at the end they compare notes. But it is not possible for two group of students to write things exactly opposite of each other, for example, it is not possible that one group says A equal B and another group writes A not equal B. Such is the case with Gospel, one Gospel says it is okay to teach to Gentiles and other Gospel says its not okay. Morever none of two GOspels declare that initially Jesus refused to preached to Gentiles but later agreed.

    4. Due to such great difference of sayings in Gospels it seems that the writers of two Gospels (Matthew & Mark) never comapred notes and it seems that they wrote independent of each other, meaning not talking with each other, although they may have a some common source.

    5. One can always find justification to make wrong a right, there are ways where one can justify murder, incest and other things but that does not mean it is right to do so……..

    But lets move forward, I will post next point in my next message.

    Suzy.

    • Suzy

      You are not listening to me. You have to be open to the truth, or it is a waste of time to discuss it.

      Just raising issues, and not learning anything is useless.

      Jesus indicated first to only go to the Jews. This is because they were the only ones who understood the bible, and could teach others.

      It takes a lifetime to understand everything in the bible.

      Later, after Jesus left, like I told you before, he said to teach ALL nations, which included the gentiles as well. Now, he had trained teachers who could teach the gentiles.

      Jesus was only here for a short time. He did not have time to teach the gentiles the entire bible. It would take decades, to start from nothing, and the gentiles knew nothing.

      So he focused only on the Jews, who would be the teachers for the gentiles later.

      When did you become an expert on how old the apostles were when they died?

      John was 94 years old when he died.

      Like I said, they also could have written the gospels while Jesus was still here, or immediately after he left.

    • Suzy said “I am just trying to make some sense as I’m sure God does not want non-sense followers who follow without thinking”

      You are right Suzy! I have always said, “G-D doesn’t want us acting like idiots”…you have to listen to Marianne! She is a good teacher and knows her stuff, unlike the “Christian Priest”, of which there is no such thing in my opinion….a priest comes from Catholicism, which comes from MAN MADE RELIGION/DOCTRINE who change the scriptures to fit their criteria and agenda! From an intellectual standpoint, listen to Marianne and read what is recommended….from a spiritual standpoint, “draw nearer to G-D and He will draw nearer to YOU” KJV OR “8Come near to God and he will come near to you.” James 4:8 NIV

      You are obviously wanting to know more about Him-He is there waiting for you to only ask of Him-Please reveal yourself to me!

  105. Uncritical acceptance of anything is not good. As I said it is good that we are not under persecution to accept things without thinking.

    Gospel by John was the last one to be written, somewhere b/w 90 to 120 AD. The earliest know date for it can be 96 AD. You said that John lived to be 94, was he then born around the year Jesus was born.

    There is no evidence that these authors ever collaborated or agreed to write 4 different Gospels for the purpose that the Christians are claiming they did.

    Actually Luke 1:1-4 sums it all quite nicely, do take time to read this from your bible. The gist is that Luke is saying that there are many authors who are writing and he is just one of many. He also says that he is not a direct eye witness to teaching of Jesus! and that things have been passed on to him which he has look thoroughly before compiling.

    Each of the Gospel potrays a different aspect of Jesus based on teh audience for which it was written. Matthew was preached to the Jews and Luke was for Gentiles…..

    Now the most critical time in the compiling of Gospels is Council of Nicea in 324 AD. It is know that at this time there existed Unitarian and trinitarian GOspels. The court of Constantine was heavily in the favor of doctrine of trinitarianism, so they banned all books based on Unitarianism. Even among trinitarianism there was many books. Which ones to includes and which ones not to includes OR did they install somebody to rewrite from large body of material available. What was the procedure used by Council of Nicea???

    Suzy.

  106. Marianne,

    Thanks for posting a reply on Annunaki. Can you move that reply to this platform? I think it was post on a different platform.

    I want to know how well other religions compare against Christianity. I mean other major religions such as:

    1. Hinduism
    2. Judaism
    3. Buddhism
    4. Islam

    If you can shed some light on each one of them then that would be great.

    Suzy.

    • They do not compare. Only salvation through Jesus will gain entrance into the kingdom of God.

      Hinduism is paganism.

      Buddhism is a philosophy, not a relationship with God.

      Judaism was the preparation for, and foreshadowing of, the Messiah, but unless they accept their own Messiah, they are lost too.

      Islam attempts to replace Christianity, but its god (Allah) is not the same one as Judaism and Christianity (Yahweh), even though it claims it is. The god’s teachings are either contrary or inconsistent with Yahweh, and it denies who Jesus really is, making him a minor prophet. Granted, there is a lot borrowed from the bible, but there is much that is contrary to it as well.

      Exalting Mohamed, like exalting any human as a god, is against Yahweh’s commandments. Jesus is the (spirit) son of God, and brought peace. Mohammed was only a man, and brought war.

    • Brigette Gabriel explains the difference between Islam and Judaism and Christianity from her personal experiences…she lived in a bomb shelter for 7 years hiding from Militant Islamics…she was rescued by Israel!

      http://www.sidroth.org/site/News2?news_iv_ctrl=-1&abbr=tv_&page=NewsArticle&id=7389&security=1041

  107. Thanks for the reply. Let’s take each one of them a bit slowly.

    Hinduism is world’s 3rd largets religion. It covers diverse thoughts such as monotheism, polytheism, panentheism, pantheism, monism, atheism, agnosticism, gnosticism among others.

    Their God Vishnu incarnated in flesh form and was known as Krishna. Which means their God also walked on earth and talked with them.

    Hindus are very tolerant and loving humans.

    What exactly is wrong with Hinduism???

    Suzy.

  108. Suzy,

    There will always be people who try to discredit the Bible with their own “intelligence”. God gave mankind free will to choose who they will serve. You have a choice to believe the lies of man or the truth of God. Remember it is YOUR choice what you believe and who you serve. We will all stand before God one day and He will ask us why we made the choices we made, if your answer is that you chose to believe a lie instead of the truth you will spend eternity in the lake of fire. Remember it will be YOUR choice!! God or Jesus will not send you to hell, you will send yourself there.

    • Emily,

      You made an excellent comment that God will ask why we made the choice we made. This is the reason I am trying to make sure that I dont miss anything. This is a quest to search the truth. Unless I look at everything I cannot be sure what is truth.

      But Marianne sometimes get very negative if I try to study other religions. I have no religion at this time. My lovers have been from many different faiths and that is why I know a little bit about some religions but I feel i have to do a complete study and then chose one which I feel is the truth.

      Now I found out that Islam is the 2nd largest faith so it is logical for me to compare the two top faith, would it be for anybody. I hope you guys will help me compare b/w the two.

      Suzy.

      • Challenge to Baal (G-D versus other gods/religions)
        When Ahab confronts Elizah,he refers to him as the “troubler of Israel.” Elijah responds by throwing the charge back at Ahab, saying that it is Ahab who has troubled Israel by allowing the worship of false gods. Elijah then berates both the people of Israel and Ahab for their acquiescence in Baal worship. “How long will you go limping with two different opinions? If the Lord is God, follow him; but if Baal then follow him” (1 Kings 18:21). And the people were silent. The Hebrew for this word, “go limping” or “waver”, is the same as that used for “danced” in verse 26, where the prophets of Baal frantically dance. Elijah speaks with sharp irony: in the religious ambivalence of Israel, she is engaging in a wild and futile religious “dance”.

        At this point Elijah proposes a direct test of the powers of Baal and the God of Israel. The people of Israel, 450 prophets of Baal, and 400 prophets of Asherah are summoned to Mount Carmel. Two altars are built, one for Baal and one for the God of Israel. Wood is laid on the altars. Two oxen are slaughtered and cut into pieces; the pieces are laid on the wood. Elijah then invites the priests of Baal to pray for fire to light the sacrifice. They pray from morning to noon without success. Elijah ridicules their efforts. They respond by cutting themselves and adding their own blood to the sacrifice (such mutilation of the body was strictly forbidden in the Mosaic law). They continue praying until evening without success.

        Elijah now orders that the altar of the God of Israel be drenched with water from “four large jars” poured three times (1 Kings 18:33-34). He asks God to accept the sacrifice. Fire falls from the sky, igniting the sacrifice. Elijah seizes the moment and orders the death of the prophets of Baal. Elijah prays earnestly for rain to fall again on the land. Then the rains begin, signaling the end of the famine.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elijah

      • “This is a quest to search the truth.”

        In your search for Truth, then YOU need to be truthful as well.

        And regarding the differences between Islam and Christianity…in a nutshell, Satan/Lucifer has taken it upon himself to counterfeit all that G-D has done and that includes but not limited to writing his own bible and referring himself as Allah. To understand why he would do this, you would have to go back to the old testament and read about why Lucifer was cast out of heaven in the first place-He wanted to be worshiped; he wanted to overthrow G-D. Lucifer, being made the most Beautiful of all angels, pretty much fell in love with himself and wanted to BE G-D. So Lucifer and a 3rd of the angels were cast out…so, long story short, Lucifer decides to write his own bible, call himself Allah and name Mohammed as the replacement for Jesus-Only Jesus was and IS the Son of G-D-BIG DIFFERENCE HERE! Satan knows this and has tried his best to mimick all that G-D has done for the one and only goal of being “god” and being worshiped. So in a nutshell, again, the difference between Islam and Christianity is Allah vs G-D. Allah is Lucifer and G-D is Yahweh-the ONE AND ONLY G-D! G-d is the CREATOR while Allah is the CREATED.

        Regarding Judaism vs Christianity. G-D is the G-D of BOTH…Judaism is the foundation of which Christianity began. Where they split is in the belief of Yeshua/Jesus. Most Jews, not all, do not believe that Jesus was the Messiah (annointed one) where as Christians believe that Jesus is the Messiah, Son of G-D, he died on the cross to be our final lamb sacrifice, 3 days later He rose from the dead and spent another 40 days among the apostles and other jews before being ascended to the heavens…and in the same way he will return.

        The Holy Scriptures, compared to all the other “scriptures” has proven itself accurate in all of its prophecies. G-D has declared the END from the Beginning…if you had viewed the video I had posted for you with Mark Biltz, you would understand what it is that I am talking about…..

        In summary, Our G-D, Yahweh and His son, Yeshua and his sweet Holy Spirit are the ones who actually SHOW UP and prove themselves! Why don’t you just simply ask him to show himself to you!? That is what alot of muslims, hindus and others are doing and that is exactly what G-d is doing….simply get alone in your room somewhere and HONESTLY ask for G-D to show himself to you.

      • this is part 1….

        • Emphasis is on the topic of Picture language…

        • Here is someone who says Mark’s theory of blood moons is debunked:

          http://www.escapeallthesethings.com/2015-blood-eclipses.htm

          I guess there will always be opposing theories.

          Suzy.

          • Yes, there have always been and will continue to be opposing “theories”.

            Tim Mchyde also quoted “Interestingly, among the many responses I read nobody seemed able to debunk the very basis of the theory ..”

            From what I read and understood, is that Tim is trying to make the eclipses fit into the 6th seal whereas Mark has shown where the Eclipses are significant because they are ALL on Jewish Feast Days, 2 years in a row and never fall on Feast days again for the rest of the century. At the end of Tim’s article, he gives slight reference to this and then states that ” Most of these derive from his dependence on the traditional Jewish calendar which is not the same as the original Biblical calendar”… I have no idea and perhaps Marianne could clarify.

            What I do know is that according to the present day, 21st century, Jewish calendar, these eclipses are scheduled to happen on Jewish Feast Days. This is incredible in and of itself and will be highly significant. I think it is also interesting that the Holy Spirit told me to learn the Jewish Holidays this past Feb 2010…soon after I started learning them I was better able to understand the scriptures. It makes sense that to understand a Jewish Messiah and a Jewish Bible, we would need to understand the Jewish culture and their Holidays.

            You will find that there are many many many different interprestations of the scriptures by MEN who will literally take 1 verse and go with it and then create a “doctrine” just based upon that 1 verse…they are also trying to fit a Jewish Bible into their western culture-it doesn’t work that way. You will have your pre-tribulation views, your mid tribulation views and your post tribulation views. It is CRAZY-and it is because of all these man-made doctrines that I left the church and went searching for G-D myself-not through man.

            Back to the video, my point in you watching it was to see how G-D, through the original picture language used, declared Jesus’ name and his first and second return all in 1 verse and the First Verse of the Bible no less..Genesis 1:1. THAT is who G-D IS and just how incredible and amazing He is. For me personally, because I have known Him and therefore knowing the TRUTH my entire life, I find it a complete waste of time to search anywhere else. Once you find the Truth and you KNOW you have the TRUTH then the search is over….only you want more of the TRUTH and you keep pressing forward in wanting to know more about HIM-G-d. I know there is more to Him then what I have so far beein shown and I am determined to press further to find it. You will find that once G-D reveals Himself to you that you will want more and more…you will fall in love with his Son, Yeshua and once receiving His beautiful Holy Spirit, your life is changed forever! Your priorities change…EVERYTHING CHANGES!

  109. 3 muslims who now worship the G-d of Israel!

    http://www.sidroth.org/site/News2?news_iv_ctrl=-1&abbr=tv_&page=NewsArticle&id=7007&security=1041

    http://www.sidroth.org/site/News2?news_iv_ctrl=-1&abbr=tv_&page=NewsArticle&id=6699&security=1041

    http://www.sidroth.org/site/News2?news_iv_ctrl=-1&abbr=tv_&page=NewsArticle&id=7389&security=1041

  110. Marianne,

    This is by far, hands down, MY FAVOURITE interview with Sid Roth…this is incredible! This lady is able to go to heaven at will and has on several occasions PRAYED WITH YESHUA HIMSELF IN THE PRAYER ROOM IN HEAVEN…..I SOooooo want this!

    http://www.sidroth.org/site/News2?abbr=tv_&page=NewsArticle&id=6849&security=1041&news_iv_ctrl=1191

  111. Is there any religion which was initiated by a female???

    Suzy.

    • laughing…no..but Eve did a good job of getting us in this mess! LOL

      With that said, G-D did appoint Deborah as a prophetess and leader of an army in the Old Testament and the boys didn’t take too kindly to it, so Deborah told them, paraphrasing, if you have a problem with this then take it up with G-D! Judges 4-5

      There were also 2 other prophetess in the OT “(Miriam, Ex 15:20; Huldah, 2 Ki 22:14-20). ”

      In the New Testament, Jesus brought respect to the women. This is how Jesus and Mary Magdelene became friends..she was in the middle of being stoned to death when He walked up and told all the men that “He who is without sin can throw the first stone”…of course no one there was without sin so they threw their stones down and walked away..Mary was saved by our Saviour!

      Mary was a prostitute but only because her husband had divorced her and she had no other means of supported herself (the husband and ex husbands’ by law were to provide for their wives/ex wives). So, while meeting her right where she was, her sins were forgiven her and Jesus showed her the TRUE meaning of LOVE-which had absolutely NOTHING to do with lust or sex. The video I posted to you above is from the movie “the passion” by Mel Gibson where it shows Mary Magdelene meeting Jesus and His rescuing her from being stoned. And NO, they did not get married and have Children. This was the catholic church’s craziness as they have proven over and over that they LOVE to change the scriptures and G-D’s laws.

      So G-D has a high respect for women and throughout the scriptures shows us how they can be a great asset to society…if only men would listen and OBEY G-d in understanding this.

      http://mail.associate.com/library/www.christianlibrary.org/authors/John_L_Kachelman_Jr/people-ot/deborah.htm

  112. Guest: Walid Shoebat
    Subject: Palestinian Former Terrorist Who Now Loves the Jewish People and Israel.

    http://www.sidroth.org/site/News2?abbr=tv_&page=NewsArticle&id=5744&security=1041&news_iv_ctrl=1189

    • This is just amazing…to watch a former terrorist who hated jews sitting and talking with Sid Roth, a JEW…a former muslim who now worships Jesus and a Jew who now worships Jesus!

  113. Why does well educated Christian like Bart Ehrman discredit Bible??? He is not a crazy or mentally retard, he is a University Professor. He backs up his claims with reasons.

    Has Gospel of Islam been dicredited by well educated people??

    Suzy.

    • Suzy

      1. Christianity actually started with God approaching Mary, asking her if she would be the mother of the Messiah. All other regions involved men at the beginning.

      2. I worked at the same University that Bart still works at. Being “educated” does not mean one has a revelation of God, or any insights into the spiritual world. It just means they read some books and passed some tests.

      He is an atheist, or agnostic at best, and is biased in his interpretation of any scripture. I have had to reassure students from his class after he abused his position, as teacher, to attack their faith.

      His reasons have no basis in reality. He believes in the gnostic gospels which were written 300 years AFTER Christ. So obviously they have NOTHING to do with the original apostles, who were all dead by then. These gospels were written by heretics.

      I had an argument with him. It even ended up in the school newspaper. How could any intelligent person think that something written 300 years AFTER Jesus could have been written by one of the original apostles 300 years earlier? NO ONE lives that long……

      The gnostic gospels were named after some of the followers of Jesus, but were written by people who lived in the 300 AD period. These fairy tales are all fiction.

      It would be like if I wrote something, and called it the gospel of Suzy. This does not mean you wrote it, because I gave it your name.

      But silly people believe what they want, and their education does them no good. They are blind to reality and the truth. They are willing to believe anything that backs up their bias, even if it is obviously false.

      3. Yes, Islam has been discredited by educated people. I have already given you some links.

      • 1. “Gospel of Suzy”, I like that one…..:).

        2. I will try to open your links as they were not opening before.

        3. Was Jesus Blond or Redhead?

        Suzy.

        • The bible does not describe his hair.

          Pilate’s report to Tiberius Caesar describes Jesus this way

          His “golden-colored hair and beard gave to his appearance a celestial aspect. He appeared to be about thirty years of age. Never have I seen a sweeter or more serene countenance.”

          Lyndsey has given some links as well.

          • You said Jesus was Blond but why does Tom Brown say Jesus had dark hair, he actually shows the picture of Jesus and he says he literally saw him. Below is the link:

            http://www.tbm.org/whatdoes.htm

            Race of Jesus seems to be an interesting topic.

            Suzy.

            • I have also seen Jesus and he had dark hair- not black, maybe dark brown. He was also much nicer looking than the picture on that page. He was in his glorified form. He was gorgeous.

              The picture on Brown’s page represented the face from the shroud- burial cloth. This was his face after they beat him, not before. So his face was disfigured.

              While I think Jesus had darker hair, I can either accept Pilate’s description as literal, or I could guess that a holy light was around Jesus, which made his hair appear “golden.”

              Gamaliel also interviewed Mary and Joseph, and saw Jesus,. He described him as having lighter hair than his mother, but thought it was because it was “sun bleached.” Jesus had blue eyes.

              Another explanation is that Jesus might appear to people in a way that they would best recognize him, and that we will not know his real appearance until we get to heaven.

              Remember, the genetics of Jesus depends on his mother. There are blonde Jews, and I think everyone has the genes for all races. But with each race, a certain set is expressed, and other genes are not expressed.

  114. And may I add…after listening to Bart rant and rave about nonsense..I can DEBUNK everything he says because 1) the Holy Spirit LIVES INSIDE ME and I am able to speak a supernatural language AS WELL AS any other language on this planet as the HS sees fit to do! This is “impossible” according to Bart’s paradigm but guess what, With G-D , ANYTHING is possible!

    2) I know my saviour LIVES and was RAISED from the DEAD by the same Holy Spirit who lives inside of me…why do I KNOW THIS….not because I have a degree, of which I do….not because my pastor told me so….and not even because the scriptures say so…it is because the Holy Spirit, who is given to us BY JESUS/YESHUA lives/dwells inside me! If Jesus wasnt alive, then how could I have received the Holy Spirit? (Jesus is the one who has the authority to give the Holy Spirit) By receiving the Holy Spirit, I now understand HOW Jesus was raised from the dead! I have felt and experienced only a glimpse of G-D’s presence and power and let me tell you…it wouldn’t matter if I had a 100 degrees…G-D’s presence, power and existence surpasses all of our understanding and it is only through FAITH and His revealing Himself to you, will you be able to understand and believe!

    You won’t find Him in any of the theology schools..you find Him when you are alone…on your knees and humbly going before him and asking him to reveal himself to you….no chanting…no meditating needed…just be yourself and be sincere (G-D knows your heart and your true intent).

    I feel sorry for Bart! All that money WASTED on “education” and he didn’t learn a thing!

    • Lyndsey,

      1. You say nice things but sometimes it also get scary. I am at this time try to cope with one subject “Jesus”. I am not yet ready for Holy Spirit. So when you say I have holy spirit in me and I can speak all languages then immediately my mind goes to movie “Exorcist” and i get scared.

      2. I have been on my knees many time but not for the same purpose though!.

      Suzy.

      • sorry about that..I forget what it was like before I received the Holy Spirit. I used to get “freaked” out whenever I heard people praying in tongues and thought for sure this was not of G-D….until of course I had the same experience.

        I can be overzealous in that I KNOW the TRUTH and it gets frustrating for me to see others struggling or disputing with the knowledge of who Jesus really is.

        All I can say, is that you really need to just take a leap of faith in this area and ask Jesus to reveal himself to you! There are innumerable accounts of eyewitness testimonies to Jesus, his angels…He is REAL; He is ALIVE and WELL…Buddha and Muhammad are dead and will pretty much stay that way, whereas our G-D-the SON OF G-D is very very much alive!

        Instead of deciphering the scriptures, for now, just take them as they are and read them…asking G-D to help you understand everything and again, to reveal Himself to you.

  115. I do also believe that God divinely still looks after Israel and protects it, but this is never a justification of any of Israel’s past or present acts.. Now for many decades I too have studied the Bible and the prophetic scriptures, dispensational views related to Israel too.. It is unbelievable, undeniable that the professing Christian people who do not know the Bible can be so easily deceived, led astray too by many others, pastors and Jewish persons, Zionists included.. And had most people most Christians read the Bible for themselves they would have known the whole truth and would not have been so easily misled by others. http://anyonecare.wordpress.com/2008/09/18/what-does-the-word-chosen-mean-in-the-bible/

    • dear thenonconformer

      It is quite odd. On your page, you conclude that God never uses the word chosen to refer to Israel, yet you give a long list of scriptures form the Old Testament about how God has chosen Israel.

      (Deu 7:6 KJV) For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.

      (Deu 12:21 KJV) If the place which the LORD thy God hath chosen to put his name there be too far from thee, then thou shalt kill of thy herd and of thy flock, which the LORD hath given thee, as I have commanded thee, and thou shalt eat in thy gates whatsoever thy soul lusteth after.

      (Deu 16:11 KJV) And thou shalt rejoice before the LORD thy God, thou, and thy son, and thy daughter, and thy manservant, and thy maidservant, and the Levite that is within thy gates, and the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, that are among you, in the place which the LORD thy God hath chosen to place his name there.

      (Deu 18:5 KJV) For the LORD thy God hath chosen him out of all thy tribes, to stand to minister in the name of the LORD, him and his sons for ever.

      (Deu 21:5 KJV) And the priests the sons of Levi shall come near; for them the LORD thy God hath chosen to minister unto him, and to bless in the name of the LORD; and by their word shall every controversy and every stroke be tried:

      (Josh 24:22 KJV) And Joshua said unto the people, Ye are witnesses against yourselves that ye have chosen you the LORD, to serve him. And they said, We are witnesses.

      (Judg 10:14 KJV) Go and cry unto the gods which ye have chosen; let them deliver you in the time of your tribulation.

      (1 Sam 8:18 KJV) And ye shall cry out in that day because of your king which ye shall have chosen you; and the LORD will not hear you in that day.

      (1 Sam 10:24 KJV) And Samuel said to all the people, See ye him whom the LORD hath chosen, that there is none like him among all the people? And all the people shouted, and said, God save the king.

      (2 Sam 6:1 KJV) Again, David gathered together all the chosen men of Israel, thirty thousand.

      (1 Ki 8:44 KJV) If thy people go out to battle against their enemy, whithersoever thou shalt send them, and shall pray unto the LORD toward the city which thou hast chosen, and toward the house that I have built for thy name:

      (1 Ki 8:48 KJV) And so return unto thee with all their heart, and with all their soul, in the land of their enemies, which led them away captive, and pray unto thee toward their land, which thou gavest unto their fathers, the city which thou hast chosen, and the house which I have built for thy name:

      (1 Ki 11:13 KJV) Howbeit I will not rend away all the kingdom; but will give one tribe to thy son for David my servant’s sake, and for Jerusalem’s sake which I have chosen.

      (1 Ki 11:36 KJV) And unto his son will I give one tribe, that David my servant may have a light alway before me in Jerusalem, the city which I have chosen me to put my name there.

      (1 Chr 15:2 KJV) Then David said, None ought to carry the ark of God but the Levites: for them hath the LORD chosen to carry the ark of God, and to minister unto him for ever.

      (1 Chr 16:13 KJV) O ye seed of Israel his servant, ye children of Jacob, his chosen ones.

      (1 Chr 28:4 KJV) Howbeit the LORD God of Israel chose me before all the house of my father to be king over Israel for ever: for he hath chosen Judah to be the ruler; and of the house of Judah, the house of my father; and among the sons of my father he liked me to make me king over all Israel:

      (1 Chr 28:6 KJV) And he said unto me, Solomon thy son, he shall build my house and my courts: for I have chosen him to be my son, and I will be his father.

      (1 Chr 28:10 KJV) Take heed now; for the LORD hath chosen thee to build an house for the sanctuary: be strong, and do it.

      (2 Chr 6:6 KJV) But I have chosen Jerusalem, that my name might be there; and have chosen David to be over my people Israel.

      (2 Chr 29:11 KJV) My sons, be not now negligent: for the LORD hath chosen you to stand before him, to serve him, and that ye should minister unto him, and burn incense.

      (Psa 33:12 KJV) Blessed is the nation whose God is the LORD; and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance.

      (Psa 78:31 KJV) The wrath of God came upon them, and slew the fattest of them, and smote down the chosen men of Israel.

      (Psa 105:26 KJV) He sent Moses his servant; and Aaron whom he had chosen.

      (Psa 105:43 KJV) And he brought forth his people with joy, and his chosen with gladness:

      (Psa 106:5 KJV) That I may see the good of thy chosen, that I may rejoice in the gladness of thy nation, that I may glory with thine inheritance.

      (Psa 106:23 KJV) Therefore he said that he would destroy them, had not Moses his chosen stood before him in the breach, to turn away his wrath, lest he should destroy them.

      (Psa 119:30 KJV) I have chosen the way of truth: thy judgments have I laid before me.

      (Psa 119:173 KJV) Let thine hand help me; for I have chosen thy precepts.

      (Prov 16:16 KJV) How much better is it to get wisdom than gold! and to get understanding rather to be chosen than silver!

      (Prov 22:1 KJV) A good name is rather to be chosen than great riches, and loving favour rather than silver and gold.

      (Isa 43:10 KJV) Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

      (Isa 43:20 KJV) The beast of the field shall honour me, the dragons and the owls: because I give waters in the wilderness, and rivers in the desert, to give drink to my people, my chosen.

      (Isa 44:2 KJV) Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen.

      (Isa 48:10 KJV) Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.

      (Isa 58:5 KJV) Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to the LORD?

      (Isa 58:6 KJV) Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?

      (Isa 65:15 KJV) And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord GOD shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:

      (Isa 66:3 KJV) He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog’s neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine’s blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.

      (Jer 8:3 KJV) And death shall be chosen rather than life by all the residue of them that remain of this evil family, which remain in all the places whither I have driven them, saith the LORD of hosts.

      (Jer 33:24 KJV) Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying, The two families which the LORD hath chosen, he hath even cast them off? thus they have despised my people, that they should be no more a nation before them.

      (Jer 49:19 KJV) Behold, he shall come up like a lion from the swelling of Jordan against the habitation of the strong: but I will suddenly make him run away from her: and who is a chosen man, that I may appoint over her? for who is like me? and who will appoint me the time? and who is that shepherd that will stand before me?

      (Hag 2:23 KJV) In that day, saith the LORD of hosts, will I take thee, O Zerubbabel, my servant, the son of Shealtiel, saith the LORD, and will make thee as a signet: for I have chosen thee, saith the LORD of hosts.

      (Zec 3:2 KJV) And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

      I am not quite sure about what you mean regarding “justification of any of Israel’s past or present acts.” This implies Israel is wrong, and the word “chosen” does not justify actions.

      Their actions are justified in themselves. They have always had the right to defend themselves against terrorism, which plagues its country, if that is what you are referring to.

      Maybe you can clarify your comment for me.

      • Well historically speaking, God’s chosen people always go through brutal times. History teaches us to never becomes God’s chosen person cuz then calamaties would be imminent.

        If you want a happy life then stay away from being God’s chosen person.

        Suzy.

        • Chosen just meant chosen to bring forth the Messiah.

          The Jews produced Jesus.

          Now, we are chosen to spread his message, and announce that he will return.

          • Are you saying now Christians are chosen people. Goodness gracious that means that calamities are imminent on Christians.

            Is it possible to be a Christians and yet not be chosen??? I would prefer it this way.

            And where does it say that “chosenness” has transferred from Jews to Christians???

            Suzy.

            • Christians have suffered for a long time for their beliefs.

              The antichrist will target them in the tribulation.

              The choice then is God or the devil.

              All those that follow Jesus are chosen. It takes an act of the holy spirit to lead someone to Christ, and it also takes an acceptance on the part of the person.

              Jews and Christians are chosen for different reasons, but they are still chosen.

        • “If you want a happy life then stay away from being God’s chosen person”

          are you kidding me? suzy, you mean to tell me after everything that Marianne and I and others have explained, taught and shown to you brings you to say the above statement?

          To be chosen and to be a part of Jesus Christ supercedes above and beyond whatever this world could ever “dish out”. And do you actually believe that you are “happy” because of all these “alledged” lovers that you claim to have? Give me a break…your not fooling anyone here..you are only fooling yourself. I am willing to bet that you haven’t even attempted to talk to G-D as I have suggested in several posts. G-D is more real than the nose on your face! And inately you know this too, that is why your avoiding Him and choosing to aggravate all of us by simply arguing everything and with everyone! Go argue with yourself and when you are SINCERE in getting to know Yeshua, then FIRST, let Him know (actually He will already know, but you have to confess with your mouth that you need Him and want Him to come into your heart)…then you can let us know! G-d forgive me if I am wrong, but I truly feel as if you are only here as a distraction and nuisance-topics are not being discussed because you keep changing them….when your serious and truthful then we will be more than willing to discuss and answers questions.

          • Goodness, you people are tough teachers. I am glad I am not sitting face to face.

            And I already have a small nose, please spare it.

            I actually like the definition for chosen put forth by Gavriel below. I feel much comfortable with it. Your definition of chosen just makes me feel like I am going thru gas-chamber.

            It it okay to go with Gavriel’s definition.

            Suzy.

      • I find interpretation of word mistakenly translated as “chosen” a bit hilarious, it is “segulah” which literally means “lucky charm”, “talisman”, “supernatural treasure”, “valuable medicine” or “antidote”, for example in hebrew one would say: “it is a great SEGULAH to apply aloe vera cream on sun-burned skin”, or “it is great SEGULAH to read psalms to sick person”,” or “it is a great SEGULAH to take contrast shower every morning” etc…

        Now think why JEWS would be called “Am SEGULAH” – “Nation of Segulah”…

        • Gavriel,

          I am much more comfortable with your definition of “Chosen”. Thanks for the input.

          Suzy.

          • I have a privilege of being able to read the Bible in ancient Hebrew. No translation can transmit beauty and depth of original scriptures, in addition it is appalling that all translations have an agenda (Jews strip scriptures from Jesus, Christians strip scriptures of its Jewishness, atheists strip scriptures from its spirituality), all of them will have to answer some serious questions of the Day of Judgment;

            • Gavriel,

              Can you tell us exactly what Matthew 24 says in HEBREW…regarding “no one knows the day or hour”…..tell me if it reads “It will be the day that no one knows the day or hour”….just curious..:)

  116. (Rev 3:12 KJV) Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

    I conclude that God never uses the word chosen to refer to Israel IN THE NEW TESTAMENT and how do you define chosen? chosen for what? The Christians in the New Testament have replaced the chosen Jews of the Old Testament in reality NOW TOO. WHAT SOME THEY STILL CANNOT UNDERSTAND, SEE THIS AND WHY? .. It may surprise you to discover that the New Testament never uses the term ‘chosen’ to describe the Jewish people. It is only used of those who follow Jesus I conclude that God never uses the word chosen to refer to Israel and the reference was the new testament.. but that is not the same as the old testament.. the Bible is composed of both books

    ABOUT THOSE PEOPLE IN DENIAL WHO CANNOT ADMIT ANY Jewish WRONG DOINGS, SINS NOW THEY ARE IN A FALSE DENIAL STILL TOO

    THE LYING MESSIANIC JEWS, JUDASES, WHO PREACH PARTIALS TRUTHS AND NEW TESTAMENT BIBLICAL DISTORTIONS ARE NOT THE REAL CHRISTIANS WHO WILL GO TO HEAVEN, BUT ARE THE NON CHRISTIANS WHO WILL GO TO HELL EVEN WITH THE UNSAVED JEWS WHO REJECTED JESUS CHRIST THE MESSIAH

    NOW WE VALID CHRISTIANS DO BASE THE VALID DOCTRINES ON THE NEW TESTAMENT SUBSTANTIATION BY JESUS OR THE APOSTLES, NOT JUST ON THE OLD TESTAMENT REFERENCES.. BY THE WAY THERE ALSO IS NO NEW TESTAMENT REFERENCE, THAT SUBSTANTIATED THE 3RD JEWISH RETURN TO THE HOLY LAND, THE PROMISE LAND.

    AS TO I am not quite sure about what you mean regarding “justification of any of Israel’s past or present acts.” INCLUDES THEIR MURDER OF INNOCENT CITIZENS, CHRISTIANS TOO OFTEN NOW TOO..

    http://thenonconformer.wordpress.com/2010/08/09/even-heaven-awaits-jewish-return-to-god-jesus-christ-and-rather-not-to-the-promised-earthly-land/

    • thenonconformer,

      Are you making your statements of the Jews ” INCLUDES THEIR MURDER OF INNOCENT CITIZENS..” based upon first hand, personally seen and witnessed experience or upon the propaganda put out by our “trusted” news sources?

      There is a video of Brigitte Gabriel who witnessed for herself the UNSELFISH acts of Jews towards the Palestians at the hospital! If both an Israeli and palestinian person came in for medical care and the if the palestinian was more critical than the Israeli they would treat the palestinian FIRST, and DESPITE the palestinian cussing and insulting them-the doctors and nurses-being Jewish-who were HELPING HIM. Do the palestinians do this? NO!, if an israeli soldier was LUCKY enough to find his way into one of their hospitals they would be left to die and suffer!

  117. thenonconformer,

    Here is that video:

    http://www.sidroth.org/site/News2?news_iv_ctrl=-1&abbr=tv_&page=NewsArticle&id=7389&security=1041

  118. thenonconformer,

    You said “BY THE WAY THERE ALSO IS NO NEW TESTAMENT REFERENCE, THAT SUBSTANTIATED THE 3RD JEWISH RETURN TO THE HOLY LAND, THE PROMISE LAND”.

    This arises following questions:

    1. Does this mean that history has moved beyond the limits of scripture???

    2. How would you explain the 3rd return of jews to mid-east??? I mean for what purpose would there be a 3rd return if it is not in NT.

    Suzy.

  119. For you Suzy..HE LOVES YOU!

    http://www.sidroth.org/site/News2?news_iv_ctrl=-1&abbr=tv_&page=NewsArticle&id=6263&security=1041

    and here is the video…Gospel according to Matthew with Bruce Machiano:

  120. Jesus in John 14:12 & Mark 16:17-18 said: “Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth in me, the works that I do shall he also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.” This implies that Jesus’ true followers should be able to routinely perform the following Acts: 1) cast out devils, 2) speak in tongues, 3) take up serpents, 4) drink poisons without harm, and 5) cure the sick by touching them and MANY other of Jesus’ “works”. Curiously I have yet to see a Christian that can do any of the above on demand.

    Has anyone of you been able to fulfill the above saying???

    Suzy

    • Suzy

      Christians who are strong in faith should be able to perform these actions. Most are too lazy to do this. Jesus called these kind of believers “lukewarm.” This is a result of a select few taking over leadership and the rest just letting the leadership do everything.

      I have cast out devils, I speak in tongues, and I have cured the sick. I have not met any serpents. I have not been exposed to poisons that I know of, unless I drank something and survived, and I did not know the poison was there.

      I have stopped a tornado from coming into my yard. I went outside and commanded it to go somewhere else, and it turned away.

      But, understand that all this can only be done in the name of Jesus. It is not me, but God working his perfect will.

      Understand also, this is a more imperfect world than when Jesus was here. In those days, people wanted to get rid of their demons. Now, they prefer to keep them.

    • Oh yeah! Hey, does getting rid of your cheating husband count as “casting out demons”..Laughing! LOL I am soooo funny! :)

      Everyday that we are still alive after eating all the toxic foods that have been sprayed with pesticides and receiving poisoned vaccines is a MIRACLE in and of itself!

      On a serious note, I have not personally cast out any devils ( I know without a doubt I could in Yeshua’s name if I ever came across someone who was obviously possessed)…I do speak in tongues (a supernatural language AND supernatural ability to speak in other languages not ever learned). I will take Jesus’ word in “taking up serpents”…no desire to test him on this…laughing…..and I have personally seen with my own eyes the sick healed and have been healed many many times personally. In fact, I have medical documentation that proves that my being alive today is goes against medical explanation. I survived a head injury after jumping off a horse that was out of control. The force of impact was falling 6 feet at 55mph and landing straight on my head with an immediate seizure as stated by a friend of mine who witnessed the entire ordeal. I was life flighted to the nearest trauma center, was being prepared for surgery due to blood on the brain and then “for whatever reason” the blood was no longer there-no surgery required. I was in ICU for 2 days and WALKED out of the hospital and returned to work a few weeks later. Emory physicians along with Neurologists and follow up Physicians have all stated that there is NO MEDICAL explanation for me being alive or being able to walk and talk and comprehend what they are saying. According to their “medical explanations”, I should have at least been paralyzed and severely brain damaged and/or I should have died. I have the xrays showing my spine and where ONLY by the grace of G-D I am able to walk! You have to know and understand that I was knocked unconscious immediately…I did not come to for approx 2 hours and then I was in and out of consciousness for about 24 hours afterwards. I do remember when I came to and I couldn’t remember much of anything, but I did remember G-D! I remember not being able to “find words” but I did say “G-D, I don’t know what to say..please help me”. That is all that was needed for Him to deliver and heal me! I firmly believe that it was the same Holy Spirit that lives inside of me (the same HS that gives me the ability to speak other languages and the same HS that rose Jesus from the dead) who was fully able to heal my body quickly and completely! Until you experience the Holy Spirit, it is difficult to explain Him and the power that He has…but if you are only able to trust the words and medical opinions of very prominent and well respected physicians, namely Emory, then let that be in and of itself-PROOF.

      • Benny Hinn has made the fire fall from heavens and has cast out devils. By whose power is he doing such great works???

        There are two more people, one in south America and another in Phillipines, they both claim to have done things far greater than Jesus. By what power are they able to do miracles????

        Is there a way to differentiate b/w the miracles done by a good christian and that done by a non-believer??? Cuz just by looking at the miracles it is not possible cuz many are doing wonderous things these days.

        I guess the best way would be that when Jesus comes he will overpower all other miracle workers but sadly his chance of coming in our lifetime is next to zero. So under such circumstance we have to find a way to separate the fake from real, cuz fake is as real as it can be these days.

        Suzy.

        Suzy.

        • Suzy

          You judge the tree by the fruit.

          Many people like Benny Hinn, and many hate him. However, I think God uses him. I have been to some of his meetings, and people I knew that were sick got better. Also, people accept God into their lives at his meetings, which is a good thing.

          I do not agree with his personal philosophy on wealth and prosperity. He is rewarding himself on earth, instead of storing up treasures in heaven. His heart loves God, but he has some weaknesses as a human being. We are all imperfect, and have our own weaknesses, so we have to let God judge him for his efforts.

          The best way to evaluate miraculous events:
          1. did something positive happen
          2. did people turn their lives over to God?
          3. did people become better in their attitudes
          4. did people turn away from sin

          that would be God…….

          now……

          if the minister is more interested in your money than your well being, then…..
          avoid him

          however, it is possible to receive from God even with a bad minister. You can get a blessing in a service led by a man who will eventually get punished by God.

          This is because God is in control, not man.

          If you are a sincere seeker of god, and you have faith in a healing or other miracle from him, God can help you.

          It does not matter if the devil is in the room. This is God’s decision, not man’s decision, or the devil’s decision.

          Here is one post on false ministers:

          http://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/false-prophets-and-teachers-%E2%80%93-characteristics/

          http://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/making-money-off-the-widows-mite/

          http://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/counterfeit-presence-of-god/

          maybe this helps answer your question.

          • I have a good example of what Marianne is talking about.
            At 21 I attended a Charismatic church for the first time and was brought there by my boyfriend at the time of 4 years who also beat me. It was an abusive relationship for 4 years. The miracle is that even thru this man who hurt me, I was introduced to the baptism of the Holy Spirit and also thru the church I attended I learned more about G-D and came to understand Him better. While attending this church and having received the Holy Spirit, G-D communicated with me thru dreams. In one dream, G-D was narrating while taking me to the church and showing me the people there while they raised their hands in praise…G-D said “they are not worshiping me, they are worshiping their god”….I assumed He was talking about money….”the love of money is the root of all evil” and “you cannot serve more than one master…you will love the one and hate the other” refering to money. It was years before I understood clearly what G-D meant. It came to “light” that the Bishop of this church had done many bad things-he made the news and the papers actually. I won’t go into detail, but suffice it to say, the illegitimate son of this Bishop inherited his position and during the interview with one of our local news reporters he said something to the affect of “I can’t help it if they worshiped him like a god” Paraphrasing….it was an “a ha” moment for me when viewing the news story because i rememberd the dream years prior where G-D said “they are not worshiping me, they are worshiping their god”.

            BUT, regardless of the Bishops’ evil doings and the boyfriend who was abusive, G-D 1) warned me of this church so that I could have my guard up 2) He brought me into the knowledge and understanding of HIM and His Holy Spirit, thus receiving the Baptism of the HS who is EVER and ForEVER with me to this day….and 3) delivered me from that abusive relationship-that came 2 years later….only because of me and my insecurities.

            G-d is just INCREDIBLE! I don’t know how else to explain Him and how merciful, compassionate and slow to anger He is. Remember when I said you were a “distraction and a nuisance” Suzy? This was ME and my impatience talking and I do apologize….FORTUNATELY, G-d has more patience than me and I am glad HE does, for I know that I was a “distraction and nuisance” for years before G-D settled me down long enough to introduce Himself! And thank G-D, literally, He did! :)

          • And….the whole reason WHY Jesus/Yeshua healed FIRST was so that the Miracle of their healing would lead them to the reality of who HE IS!

            I have just learned this recently….”12I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. “John 14 NIV

            The whole reason to “do even greater things than these”, such as healing, is to create a platform that will tell others about Yeshua, who He is and how to receive Him into their lives. Jesus always healed FIRST….Jesus always drove out demons FIRST…He never told them who He was…He would first have compassion on them and then he would heal them!

        • The authority is thru the name of Jesus/Yeshua! 11Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves. 12I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. 14You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it. John 14 NIV

          But marianne is right, you have to look at “the fruit that is from the tree”. Matthew 12:33“Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit. 23

          And further: At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible. 25See, I have told you ahead of time. Matthew 24

          SO…check them out by their FRUITS….as Marianne wrote “The best way to evaluate miraculous events:
          1. did something positive happen
          2. did people turn their lives over to God?
          3. did people become better in their attitudes
          4. did people turn away from sin

          that would be God…….”

          And as far as Jesus returning in our lifetime…32“Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that IT IS NEAR, right at the door. 34I tell you the truth, this generatione will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. Matthew 24

          http://niv.scripturetext.com/matthew/24.htm

          The fig tree represents Israel and Jerusalem. THIS generation will certainly NOT PASS AWAY….so a generation being approx 49 years…Jerusalem was won in 1967 + 49 years (THE GENERATION) COULD VERY WELL MEAN…that Jesus will return by 2016! OR if you want to consider a generation being 68 or 70 years…add that to the year ISRAEL became a state “sprouted her leaves” that would take us to 2016 or 2018. WE ARE IN THE LAST DAYS! About 90 percent of the prophecies in the scriptures have come to pass…we are now waiting on the Temple to be built which could easily be done with a tent…and we are waiting on the Jewish Return to Israel, which brings us back on topic…:)

          http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=63076

          http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4041154/sir_isaac_newtons_prediction_for_the_return_of_christ_sid_roth/

          • I have serious objection with 2016 time frame for the return of Jesus. Matthew 24 is not properly interpreted. The only time one can surely say that this generation (whichevre it maybe) will see the return of Jesus when:

            1. Tribulation takes place
            2. when abomination of desolation takes place
            3. when anti-christ is on the earth

            then and then only one can say that this generation will not come to pass before Jesus returns.

            I say it with deep conviction and surety that 2016 will pass quietly.

            Suzy,

            • Suzy

              As you said, 2016 may pass quietly. Jesus said to look for the abomination to take place, as the main sign. Once we see that, then run from it, and seek safety.

              I hope, like you, that we have more time. There are so many lost people out there, who do not know God and obey him. The bible says that God does not want anyone to perish. He wants everyone saved, and with him in heaven.

              But evil cannot be allowed to continue forever. God will have to stop it. And many ignorant people are going to get hurt, if they have not made themselves right with God.

              • Abomination will happen through a series of events, it wont happen instantly as a singular event independent of other events.

                There is not enough between now and 2016 for the abomination to take place.

                Suzy.

                • Very true. But when it happens, I hope people’s eyes are open. It will be a series of deceptions.

                  Events are accelerating now. We will just have to wait and see.

                  • King of the North will have to over-run King of the South to open the series of events. As of now we dont even have properly defined King of the South and King of the North.

                    So this means the events are not accelerated.

                    Suzy.

            • And I have deep conviction to the contrary. I have been paying very close attention to what is going on around me regarding Israel, Jersusalem and the present administration of the U.S. The FACT that there are NO MORE Eclipses occuring on Jewish FEASTS days in the century after occuring on Jewish Feast Days (the same feast days) 2 years in a row is HIGHLY SIGNIFICANT.

              There are 7 Feast days. 4 out of the seven, Yeshua fulfilled with his crucifixion, resurrection, ascension and pentecost. (correct me if I got wrong marianne)

              The remaining 3 left to be fulfilled are 1) Feast of Trumpets (the ONLY jewish holy day that “no man knows the day or hour” it begins; 2) Day of Atonement and 3) Feast of Tabernacles.

              The Jewish Holy Day of Feast of Trumpets is also when Yeshua was BORN…Yeshua is the SAME yesterday, today and tomorrow!

              Israel is consistently referred to as the FIG tree throughout scripture. Israel became a state (in one day) as prophesied in the scriptures in 1948. During this time as well, there were Eclipses on Feast days. Jerusalem was won back as Israel’s capital in 1967. During this time as well, there Eclipses on Feast Days.

              In Genesis, G-d stated that the sun and moon would be used as “signals”…it really doesn’t take a “rocket scientist” to figure out that the upcoming Solar and Lunar Eclipses (4 blood moons no less) occuring on JEWSIH FEAST DAYS is HIGHLY SIGNIFICANT-Phenomenal to say the least….and the FACT that Eclipses falling on Feast Days do NOT happen anymore in this CENTURY.

              The latest news regarding Jerusalem that I read, was that PM Nethanyahu was offering land in order to begin the Peace Talks.
              Obama wants to DIVIDE Jerusalem.
              It could easily take less than an hour to physically put up a “temple” by means of a tent…this is how the temples were “built” for the sake of sacrifice over 4000 yrs ago. The point is this…read your headlines…reference the prophecies from the Holy Scriptures and there you go….WE ARE HERE. And as far as Matthew 24 being misunderstood, I honestly don’t see how it could be any plainer…..”he who has ears let him hear”

              • If there are no more eclipses on feast days in this century then it does not mean that we have to force the coming of Jesus around 2016.

                If then actually means that he is not coming in this century.

                Suzy.

                • laughing…I don’t control the heavens or the eclipses or the timing of the feast days…but the one who does IS COMING..when HE comes was told to us in the scriptures…it is all there. So…I will go ahead and say “I told you so” now while there is time, for when the sky breaks open and you see HIM..every knee will bow and confess that Jesus is Lord….there won’t be anytime to post a comment on here…:)

    • suzy,

      Here are just a few interviews with other people giving testimonies of G-D’s ability to Heal and much more….

      http://www.sidroth.org/site/News2?news_iv_ctrl=-1&abbr=tv_&page=NewsArticle&id=8749&security=1041

      http://www.sidroth.org/site/News2?abbr=tv_&page=NewsArticle&id=9475&news_iv_ctrl=1141

      http://www.sidroth.org/site/News2?news_iv_ctrl=-1&abbr=tv_&page=NewsArticle&id=9206&security=1041

  121. If a bastard child is born but later parents actually marry then does such a bastard child become legitimate in the eyes of Lord???

    Suzy,

    • Suzy

      An innocent child is always legitimate in the eyes of the Lord.

      It is the parents who sinned, not the child.

      In the old testament, rules were more strict, because the behavior of the parents could be passed on to the child. Then the child would grow up to be like the parents.

      But law was replaced by grace when Jesus came. Forgiveness of sins, and mercy were the theme. By then, the Jews were finally disciplined enough by the law, and they could progress to a higher level of understanding of god’s will.

      If you are referring to Jesus, he was not a bastard. He had a miraculous birth, and man was not involved. He only had 1/2 the DNA a normal human would have, plus the Y chromosome.

  122. Suzy

    The king of the South is set as Egypt, unless Saudi Arabia enters into this.

    The king of the north is debatable, since that ancient kingdom broke up. Possibly, Turkey, or Syria? Turkey is already making some political moves that may not be popular with other similar nations. it controls more than it seems. Just cutting off the water supply could cripple Iran, Iraq and Syria. It represents both east and west.

    This war is different from the one with Iran. Look at Daniel 8. There is a “goat” from the west which attacks and defeats the ram of Persia. The abomination follows in Verse 14.

    According to Daniel one of the 4 horns will be the one to assume the antichrist role, who exalts himself as god, and casts down the sanctuary (the abomination). 3 of the 4 horns are in the middle east region.

    like i said, I just wait and watch, and discuss.

    • Moreover the process of overruning of King of South will span several years. So no chance for abomination to happen anytime soon.

      Suzy.

      Suzy said this on August 11, 2010 at 8:12 pm

      • The king of the south will not really be over run. THE antichrist will approach the land, but become grieved at news that ships from the west are coming against him. Dan 11:29

        Wars can start quickly in the middle east.

  123. All nations dwarf before US. Why doesnt then we go in and take hold of temple mount and let Jews build the temple? What can mid-east countries do at the most???? They are all toothless. Why do we have to wait for messiah when power is already with us????

    Suzy.

    • Suzy

      When the time is right, all things will happen as predicted. God knew the exact time that each event would occur. WE are only humans, so we have to guess.

      Many feel that the US will have to fall, or crash in some way, to allow antichrist to go into ISrael, and stay there. Normally, the US would defend Israel, so its help has to be removed for this defeat to happen.

      Another possibility is that the antichrist comes from the US. The Americans can come in easily into Israel, and the bible says he enters in peace, but with deceit.

      Do not feel toothless. There will be powers who oppose the antichrist. Even during the tribulation, there will be believers who will fight for what is right.

  124. why is internet bereft of Jewish predictions about the current times????? I read that jews in olden days had lots of predictions with them and many use to come true.

    I think these jews are scared of holocaust and therefore are not making the predictions public.

    Is it possible to get hold to some authentic Jewish predictions about our times???? Somehow these jews always know something about the coming future.

    Suzy.

    • http://www.korbanpesach.org/en/korban/learn.htm

    • I think they are being careful. From what I know of them, they prefer to concentrate on their own current holiness and behavior, so as to merit the protection of the Messiah when he comes.

      You get hints, as in the plans for the 3rd temple.

      They are aware that Jacob’s trouble will occur first, a time when they will face more persecution. This is something not to be advertised a lot, since it might encourage their enemies.

      But what people need to understand is that the Messiah will protect all that love god, and believe in him.

  125. all elements of 3rd temple are ready and will be put together in Arkansas as a test, thereafter all elements will be moved to Israel and then they will wait for the most opportune time to put it together in Jerusalem.

    Suzy.

    • Where did you get that idea? What is your reference for a 3rd temple in Arkansas?

      They are already building a 3rd temple near Jericho. Why would they build one in Arkansas?

  126. I think I must have read it in a magazine some time back.

    There is a scholar Ernest Martin who says that location of Jerusalem is not properly established. He says actual Jerusalem was slightly to the south-east of current location. If he is correct then this means that location of temple mount lies not where DOme of Rock is????? Which means that we can save the mother earth from a nuclear war!

    What say you?

    Suzy.

    • hi Suzy

      Jerusalem itself is exactly where it is now. The ancient walls are still there, and archeological digs have brought up more evidence.

      Some say the Dome is over the holy of holies….

      http://www.templemountfaithful.org/Articles/temple-location.htm

      Others say it is close to the Dome, but not in the same place. It is a few yards north of the Dome.

      If this second view is correct, then they could build a 3rd temple beside the mosque.

      The City of David is still in the same spot also.

  127. If they can tear down houses of Palestinians by showing them the biblical rights then why dont they tear down the Dome of the Rock using the same rights?

    Why dont they just send IDF soldiers with a bulldozer????

    Suzy.

    • SUzy

      The only homes that were bulldozed were those that belonged to HAMAS. They stored weapons, bombs and explosives in them.

      In 2005, Jews gave up 100,0000 homes in the West Bank for Palestinians to live in.

      In 1967, the Jews won the Temple Mount in battle. However, as a courtesy, they gave it back to the other side, so they could use their mosque. The understanding was that both sides could use the temple mount area. However, soon after wards, the Muslims ejected the Jews from the mount, and claimed the entire area for themselves. SO, the courtesy was not mutual.

      In time, the Jews will regain the temple mount. But for now, they are trying to just keep peace there.

  128. Is there any other source than Matt 24 which tells us when Jesus is coming???? Cuz I dont think he is coming anytime soon.

    Armageddon can only take place when opponent is willing to fight. There is no opponent who will be willing to fight against Christians as Christians have far too superior military technology. Therefore any sane person can see that Armageddon is not happening any time soon. Yes, one can put a temple together in a month but that’s not sufficient.

    If you read news carefully then you will find that Syria is not willing to fight Israel, that is, a full scale war. Israel has done enough to provoke a war but Syria wont buy into it. So again this is a proof that Jesus is not coming anytime soon.

    Suzy.

    • Armageddon has nothing to do with America OR Christians! It is a Jewish Bible; A Jewish G-D; A Jewish Messiah; A Jewish STATE…this is all about Israel and Jerusalem! Do you not read or listen to the news? I am truly amazed at your lack of awareness….When Jerusalem is surrounded…

      Luke 19:41As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it 42and said, “If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes. 43The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. 44They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.”

      Luke 21:20“When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. 23How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

      25“There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. 26Men will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken. 27At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”

      29He told them this parable: “Look at the fig tree and all the trees. 30When they sprout leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is near. 31Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near.

      32“I tell you the truth, this generationb will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 33Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

      http://www.focusonjerusalem.com/israelandthefigtree.html

      Israel IS the FIG TREE…the countdown to our Messiah’s return began in 1948!

    • The threat of attack will come from Persia. Syria does not need to attack.

      But in Armageddon, an army will come from the north. It will have to cross through Syria or Lebanon, and continue south into Israel. Syria does not have to join them.

      You are right. Currently, Syria is not interested in war. But Persia is, and it could solicit Russia to join with it against Israel. Syria may or may not participate, but it will allow troops to move across its territory and over the mountains into Israel. Turkey is also testing Israeli response right now.

      Matt 24 is an overview of what to look for, regarding the return of Jesus. But there are other scriptures that give more information. Daniel 7,8,11, 1Thessalonians 4 and the book of revelation go into more detail.

  129. Russia will never fight in support of Persia. Persia itself has nothing to fight with.

    God does not create fights, why would God ask to build a temple on space which is already taken. Why cant they build the temple in a different location and worship their God. Would this not be an amicable solution. But no they are hell bent with their messianic views, a rational analysis shows that 6 million jews are bent on destroying 6.5 billion people on earth.

    From medical science we know that when a part of the body gets cancer then it is cut off for the greater good of the rest of the body. If jews dont stop their current policies then soon world leaders will come to this conclusion.

    Why cant they live and let live?????

    Suzy.

    • The Jews are NOT provoking these wars-it is the surrounding Nations of Israel who want their land! This was prophesied in the scriptures as HAVING to TAKE PLACE.

      I tell you what, I am fed up with anyone and everyone who keeps blaming the Jews! They have MORE RIGHT to exist then any of us! They ARE and WILL CONTINUE to be G-D’s CHOSEN/SET APART PEOPLE! Deal with it and move on….if you can’t move on and deal with it, then go somewhere else where your anti-semitic attitude is welcomed-it isn’t here!

      ARGUE WITH G-D! He has more patience!….

    • Russia has already threatened the US, that if it strikes Iran, it will strike the USA. That sounds like a commitment.

      The space that is already “taken” was meant by God for the Jews, not muslims. It is the muslims, not the Jews, who are hell bent, and do not want anyone else around.

      The Palestinians, who claim to the descendants of ancient Canaanites, were described long ago by God to be the enemies of God. They will be removed from the land when Jesus comes.

      Zec 14:21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.

      Jesus will return to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles (Zech 14 16) and God will command a drought on any nation that does not come to Jerusalem to worship the King Messiah. this included Egypt.

      The mosque will be replaced with the final temple of the Lord.

      6 million Jews were killed in the holocaust and the Palestinians contributed to this murderous effort. For this reason, they will be destroyed by Messiah.

      THe Jews in Israel have been consistently attacked for the past 70 years by one or more of 5 Arab different muslim nations, as well as HAMAS and Hezbollah.

      Currently, it is 3.5 billion muslims trying to exterminate 6 million Jews, not the other way around.

  130. I think Obama has been planted in white house by Muslims. Muslims are conspiring against Jews and they want to use Obama. Is this correct?????

    If this is correct then how will jew tackle this plan???

    Suzy.

    • Suzy

      Obama was put in place by several groups. Muslims are just one of them. Christians are another, since he was claiming to be a christian during his campaign. But most think it was the Illuminati that had the greatest impact, since it controls the media and the money.

      There are some muslims who conspire against the Jews. but not all are like that. Most just want to be left alone, and to have no trouble.

      God will settle the political and religious differences betwee n the Muslims and the Jews. No human effort will be successful. That is why the world needs the Messiah Jesus to return. Only he is qualified to bring peace. Until he comes, people will fight, or threaten to fight.

    • No, you are not correct. He is support by a long list of New Agers, secular humanists, and false religions.

      It is not just Jews in the cross hairs, it is anyone who does not share the Marxist world view.

  131. Matt 24:44 says …..”Son of man is coming at an hour you do not expect.” Which means he will come very late at night when everybody is sleeping.

    The fig tree parable is for the tribulation or abomination of desolation. The fig tree is not a parable for birth of Israel.

    It is still several hundred years before Jesus can return.

    Suzy.

    • Suzy

      Remember there are 24 time zones. So, the hour in one zone is not the hour in another zone.

      Jesus will return in the evening, Jerusalem time. Most of the world will be awake, except for the far east, who will not be involved anyhow.

      The fig tree symbolizes Israel

      When it was planted was 1948…when it matured was 1967.

      What proof do you have that it will be several hundred more years?

    • Suzy, you sound nervous about Jesus’ return…and you should be if you have not turned your life over to Him-Yeshua. We have told you the truth of what the scriptures mean and where to find it in the scriptures and have explained what the parable of the fig tree means and who the fig tree represents. Even Sir Isaac Newton, one of the smartest men on earth, aside from Yeshua and Einstein of course, understood the parable of the fig tree and when he did the calculations he came up with the year 2016…..this was about 300 years BEFORE Israel became a state…and while not having access to the NASA website which shows the exact dates of the eclipses which land on Jewish Feast Days! The accuracy of all of this falling into place is beyond phenomenal and can ONLY be due to divine providence! Open your eyes Suzy! Open, Open, Open in Yeshua’s name!

      • I myself saw a BBC program where they allege that Newton gave a date of 2060???? and not 2016, ha ha ha….

        Moreover even 2060 is an alleged date, it may be possible that poor guy wasnt even working on such a thing.

        Suzy.

        • suzy

          Newton was a mathematician, not a prophet. His calculations are vague and his reasoning obscure.

          http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message534255/pg1

          This is what he said, which lacks logic and a base of reference to a valid starting point:

          The difference [sic] between the 1290 & 1335 days are a parts of the seven weeks.
          Therefore the 2300 years do not end before ye year 2132 nor after 2370.
          The time times & half time do n[o]t end before 2060 nor after [2344]
          The 1290 days do not begin [this should read: end] before 2090 nor after 1374

          “So then the time times & half a time are 42 months or 1260 days or three years & an half, recconing twelve months to a yeare & 30 days to a month as was done in the Calendar of the primitive year. And the days of short lived Beasts being put for the years of lived [sic for “long lived”] kingdoms, the period of 1260 days, if dated from the complete conquest of the three kings A.C. 800, will end A.C. 2060.

          Poeple over the ages, who can also do math, have guessed when Jesus would return. Newton is just one more guesser.

          There is no logical reason to start counting at 800 AD.

          Jesus told us how to start the time clock: when the fig tree put out its fruit – ie when Israel was born again, and had matured. We then add 70 years to that date.

        • Ok…its official..Suzy, you are….wait for it….an IDIOT!..what is an idiot you say “1usually offensive : a person affected with extreme mental retardation
          2 : a foolish or stupid person

          — idiot adjective

          http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/idiot

          It had to be said so I said it.
          We have ENDURED your “many lovers” and “horse metaphors” to say it nicely and on and on and on.

          I will continue to pray that the Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth…He is the ONLY ONE who can do that at this point because you have demonstrated thruout your posts that you could really care less what TRUTH we give you. You choose to believe the lies that have been taught to you. That is your choice. My choice is to call you an idiot! I am wondering at this point if your real name is OBAMA! HA

    • “no one knows the day or hour” is the Feast of Trumpets! This is the only Jewish Feast Day that “no man knows the day or hour” it begins due to it having to begin at the siting of the new moon…2 witnessess needed to confirm the appearance, the day and hour..so for this particular feast day, they actually celebrate it for 2 days….BECAUSE, once again, they “do not know the day or hour” it begins!

      • Now WHICH Feast of Trumpets he arrives on has yet to be seen….the years 2014 and 2015 have the Solar and Lunar Eclipses occuring precisely on and around these Jewish Feast Days AND on the Feast of Trumpets! That is a WOW!….so it is just a wait and see……

  132. I am working on the new information i have obtained. I will share it with you once i sort things out. But it is true that Jesus will not come anytime soon. Perhaps in my next post I will let you know the reason.

    Suzy.

  133. Comparison of Various escathologies shows a common denominator, which is “Armageddon”.

    Right now Israel and its allies may be in a position to wage armageddon but there is no opponent which is ready for it. Neither Russia, Persia or Syria are ready, nor any other country of block of countries.

    Without Armageddon Abomination of desolation and Tribuation cannot take place. Thus it shows that there is no chance of return of Jesus anytime soon.

    Suzy.

  134. http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4041154/sir_isaac_newtons_prediction_for_the_return_of_christ_sid_roth/

    • June 7th 1967 Jerusalem was restored to Israel and began to be built up in troublous times! 49 prophetic years x 360 days = 17,640 days. So, lets count from June 7th 1967 forward, to the day, 17,640 days and see where it takes us! It puts you on Sep 23rd 2015 which is YOM KIPPUR !!! 5 days latter , Sep. 28, is Succoth and is the final total lunar eclipse-

      http://www.metacafe.com/watch/4041154/sir_isaac_newtons_prediction_for_the_return_of_christ_sid_roth/

      • They fitted lot of this type of Math on Y2K also but nothing happened.

        You based your reply on 49 prophetic years but did not tell anything about why 49 years from 1967????

        Once an old Jewish lady told me that modern Israel will have 76 years….. but I dont believe her. But if we do the Math 1948+ 76 = 2023, I hope I have done the Math correctly as I am quite poor at it, sometimes I forget the count of my lovers.

        If Jesus was to come in 2016 then the 7 year period should have started in 2009.

        I really like a solid and reasoned guess than just a guess. So this is what I am searching.

        Suzy.

        • Hi Suzy

          Again, I am not committed to a date. I let others say what they think, and I might also consider certain times myself. But I am not guaranteeing anything. I have not see the abomination of desolation yet.

          The one aspect of the 49 years is that it is thought that the Messiah will come in a Jubilee year. This is a year of rest, and redemption, and release of debts and burdens.This happens every 50 years, so 49 years of work, then the 50th year is a jubilee.

          1967 (jubilee year) + 50 years = 2017 is the next jubilee year

          There is no reason to calculate anything using 76 years. 70 years is significant, but not 76.

          70 is the number of a generation. The Jews spent 70 years in Babylon.

          1947 + 70 = 2017 end of one generation in Israel.

          Do not think in terms of 7 years. Jacob’s trouble is 3 1/2 years.

          • So if we keep counting 50 years then below are probable Jubilee years when Jesus can come:

            2017
            2067
            2117
            2167
            2217
            2267
            2317
            2367
            2417
            2467
            2517
            2567
            2617
            2667
            2717
            2767
            2817
            2867
            2917
            Which means in every century there are two probable times of coming of Jesus. If we miss on 2017 then 2067 is the next probable in this century. But by that time you gals will be six feet below the earth……

            There are many christian scholars who do not take fig tree to be analogy for Israel.

            I also base on Geo-Political study and conclude that Jesus will not return on 2017, and even the return is unlikely in 2067.

            Suzy.

            • hi Suzy

              I will probably be gone before all that.
              True, even Jesus said we do not know the day or the hour of his return..Only the Father in heaven knows this. But it is our hope that it is soon, because this world has become so dangerous and dark, and we need him to come. So we wait, and hope for him to come.

              Who are the christian scholars who do not think Israel is the fig tree?

              Geo Politics does not determine when Jesus will come. God in heaven makes this decision.

              • I believe that world has not become as dark as it is suppose to become before the return of Jesus.

                The darkness you mention has just begun, it will deteriorate to a great extent before change can come.

                I dont remember the names of scholars but I myself read and they mentioned that parable of Fig tree is not for Israel.

                Also note that God gave 200 years to ancient Israel and 235 years to ancient Judah. So by this token I would put the return at 1948 + 200 = 2148 and if we round this to Jubilee year then it becomes 2167.

                Suzy.

            • Thanks Suzy! you just made our point! you see, in all of the above jubilee years AFTER 2017 there are NO MORE ECLIPSES ON JEWISH FEAST DAYS! To understand WHY this is significant, you have to understand the Jewish Culture and WHY the Jewish Feast Days are SIGNIFICANT! AGain, the Holy Bible is written for the JEWS…Christians/Gentiles are grafted/adopted in and the Christians that ignore the fact that the Scriptures were written with the Jews as the audience, they will MISS IT! They miss all the meanings of the words Jesus spoke because he referenced alot of times what would only mean something to a jewish audience.

              For example, someone in the western world would say “its raining cats and dogs”…to a Jew, he would not understand this saying, but to an American, he would.

              Whether we like it or not, G-D “set aside”/CHOSE the Jewish People as HIS! Everything is centered around Jerusalem-even the secular world can’t deny this! Jesus/Yeshua is JEWISH! Once you understand this and learn the Jewish Holidays/Feast Days, then everything will make sense….that is if you are willing to set aside being “foolish and offensive”. G-D doesn’t care how many lovers you have or had and neither do we! We are above this…our knowledge and understanding of things that you haven’t grasped yet are what put us at a different place/understanding of what is worthy of our time. If you are SINCERE in your search for truth, then you have come to the right place. Marianne and others on here have a good grasp on the reality and understanding of what the scriptures truly reveal…and if you will LISTEN you might learn something…

  135. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100815/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_palestinians#mwpphu-container

  136. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/14/world/middleeast/14israel.html?src=mv

    http://af.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idAFTRE67E0HU20100815

    I am waiting for them to start cleaning up the area outside the Eastern Gate!!!

    I am laughing because I read not long ago that the Muslims, when they found out which gate Jesus would enter the city through, they started burying their dead at the entrance thinking this would stop HIM…since Jews are not allowed to touch the dead! Did they stop to think that Jesus could actually raise them from the dead as He walked thru the gravesites to get to the GATE!? LOL

    • Iyndsey,

      This is really funny to me too. We do not have such thing actually and I do not know from where you read this and who the author was :)
      For us Jesus is just a prophet like other prophets and it is not mentioned in Quran that he would enter Eastern Gate :)

      Have a good day.

      • hi Mahmoud

        The eastern gate was blocked by the Moors, I think.

        The Messiah is sometimes referred to as “the Prince” in scripture. Other names: Messiah, the Branch, the King…..

        The opinion about the gate comes from Ezekiel. All people went in through the north and south gates, except the prince, who went through the east gate:

        Eze 46:2 And the prince shall enter by the way of the porch of [that] gate without, and shall stand by the post of the gate, and the priests shall prepare his burnt offering and his peace offerings, and he shall worship at the threshold of the gate: then he shall go forth; but the gate shall not be shut until the evening.

        Eze 46:8 And when the prince shall enter, he shall go in by the way of the porch of [that] gate, and he shall go forth by the way thereof.

        Eze 46:12 Now when the prince shall prepare a voluntary burnt offering or peace offerings voluntarily unto the LORD, [one] shall then open him the gate that looks toward the east, and he shall prepare his burnt offering and his peace offerings, as he did on the sabbath day: then he shall go forth; and after his going forth [one] shall shut the gate.

        Although any prince could fulfill this passage, once the gate was shut, only a true prince could open it again.

        The only true prince who can open that gate now is the Messiah.

      • http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Gate_(Jerusalem)

        http://www.biblehistory.com/gentile_court/TEMPLECOURTThe_Eastern_Gate_and_Prophecy.htm

        http://focusonjerusalem.com/easterngateinprophecy.html

  137. Sorat Al Isra in Quran says about Children of Israel:

    And We gave Moses the Scripture and made it a guidance for the Children of Israel that you not take other than Me as Disposer of affairs ~2~
    O descendants of those We carried [in the ship] with Noah. Indeed, he was a grateful servant ~3~
    And We conveyed to the Children of Israel in the Scripture that, “You will surely cause corruption on the earth twice, and you will surely reach [a degree of] great haughtiness ~4~
    So when the [time of] promise came for the first of them, We sent against you servants of Ours – those of great military might, and they probed [even] into the homes, and it was a promise fulfilled ~5~
    Then We gave back to you a return victory over them. And We reinforced you with wealth and sons and made you more numerous in manpower ~6~
    And We said (Allah): ‘If you are virtuous, through [acts of] obedience, you are being virtuous to your own souls, since the reward thereof is for them [your souls]; and if you do evil, by way of [working] corruption, it is for them’, your evildoing. So when the time, the occasion, for the other [prophecy] comes, We will raise them forth, that they might ravage you, make you grieve through [their] slaying and taking captive [of you], a grief that will be manifest on your faces, and that they might enter the Temple, the Holy House [of Jerusalem], and destroy it, just as they entered it, and destroyed it, the first time, and that they might destroy, lay waste, all that they conquered, [all that] they gained ascendancy over, utterly, with an utter wasting. They indeed wrought corruption a second time when they slew [the prophet] John. Thus Nebuchadnezzar was roused against them, and so he slew thousands of them and took their children captive and destroyed the Holy House [of Jerusalem] ~7~

    • YAWN…this is what G-D says about HIS Children in Israel: “LET MY PEOPLE GO”, Exodus, HOLY Bible

      G-D/Yahweh/Elohim Will continue to protect Israel as He always has! YOU haven’t a clue WHO you are up against! You labor in vain…..and your words are fruitless! Put that in your muslim pipe and smoke it!

      • I see that you got offended though I understand that this site is meant to be for sharing views and not insulting religions. I can guess that you are a heavy pipe smoker!

        What I posted was basically not relevant to my own words, it is the Quran’ic prophecy in Surah 17 pertaining to the decline of the state of Israel in the holly land in the past and in the future.

        • The Koran is the sayings of Mohammad. So I’m told. In the history book, a correct one, Mohammad murdered, and raped most of his adult life. Is that the man you Muslims follow?

          Allah, aka Sin is but one of 359 false gods at the kaaba, or zero point. The place where your god entered earth. Allah Akbar! Allah is greatest of all other gods. At the kaaba? Is that the the horns of the bull on your Moaques? It will be in the early Sepember sky soon. The moon god.

          Let me get this stright. Mohammad said things about what happened thousands of years ago. Is that correct? Not before it happened, but after.

          ROPMA!

        • hi Mahmoud

          I guess I have to explain Americans to you.

          Obviously there is a debate here. Different sources can produce different opinions.

          I would expect different religions to have some views that are the same, and some that are different. I see nothing wrong with your “17” number approach. It is just not in the bible.

          The expression “put it in your pipe and smoke it” means to think about what is said.

          This comes from the leisurely act of pipe smoking.

          She did not mean to insult you. She was trying to be funny, but it did not work.

          She had actually written an email to me asking me to delete the comment, so it would not offend you. But you saw it before I got the message.

  138. The demise of Israel in the Quran

    The first point

    And God knows there is a relationship between number 19 and the movement between the sun and the moon and the earth, which may indicate the presence of a mathematical universal law and Quraanic.

    One: the earth revolves around the sun in 365 days (12 months), we note that the word of the “day” was mentioned a in the Quran 365 times a the world “month” and mentioned 12 times.

    Two: the moon orbits the Earth once every month which revolves 12 times a year in this period the Earth has revolved around the sun once. The Moon and the Earth return to the same positions they started the rotation every 19 years.

    Three: Within every 19 lunar years there are 7 leap years (355 days) and 12 normal years (354 days) and note that the word “years” is mentioned in Quraan 19 times where 7 times mentioned as single word (based on arabic grammer).

    ————————————————– ——————————

    The second point

    Historians disagree on the death of Prophet Solomon, but the correct view that in 935 BC. M

    One: is mentioned on the death of Solomon peace be upon him in the Qoraan once in Al Saba’ in verse 14 (And when We (God) decreed that he should die …) and note that the number of characters from the beginning of Sura until the end of verse 13 is 935 characters which is the date of the death of Solomon correct peace be upon him.

    Two: after the death of Prophet Solomon the Jewish state splitted into two parts: Israel in the north and Judah in the south and it is known in history that Israel ended in 722 BC. and Judah in 586 BC. and Philippe says that Israel was ruled by 19 kings and Judah 19 kings though Judas lasted for 136 years more than Israel.
    What about number of rulers of existing Israel now since it was declared?!!

    Three: In the year 799 BC. Egyptians and Achuren attacked Israel for the first time and that attack increased Israel’s strength and power in the time its king Azaria’s age was 19, and after that year to 57 years (19 × 3) this State ended.
    So if we compare that that is Israel with this time we see that, we find that Israel in 1967 occupied the whole land of Palestine reached its strength and power had reached its peak and its age was 19 years old (1967 – 1948 = 19)
    So will Israel end after 57 years (19 x 3= 57)

    ————————————————– ——————————

    The third point

    There are several prophecies between age and permanence of Israel now and some cosmic phenomenas. We do not know how true any of them, but we cite some of them:

    One: there is a prophecy says that if the State of Israel is established then it will last for 76 lunar years and it is well known that Israel was established in 1948 and the demise of Israel will be in the prophecy: 1367 (lunar year)+76 = 1443 (lunar year) = 2022 calendar year.

    Two: there is a link between the prophecy of Halley’s comet and the Jewish faith where the State of Israel time. The comet began its trip close to us in 1948, and it was seen when he was at rock bottom in the 10/2/86 and was half way in the next 38 calendar years. According to the analysis, its trip lasts 75 years and therefore the second half of its trip will be 37 calendar years or 38 lunar years and will end in 2022.

    Three: There is a prophecy the other says that in the year that begins with the day Saturday and ends also with Saterday it will tbe the year of ending Israel.
    It is well known that 2022 will start with Saturday and ends Saturday.

    ————————————————– ——————————

    The Forth point

    Information and figures in Surat Al-Isra in Quran:

    One: The Story of the order in the Holy Quran is 17 and the number of the words in the story is 1556 words

    Two: the number of words from the beginning of the talk about the children of Israel (and gave Moses the Book ….) till the end of the talk about the children of Israel (when the promise of the Hereafter…etc) equals 1443 words and this coincides with the expected date of the end of Israel (Note: 1443 Lunar year = 2022 calendar year)

    Three: the number of verses that have 19 words are 4, and has therefore be 19 × 4 = 76 (age of Israel State)

    Four: verse 76 in the Sura talking about the output from the home for the next time of Israel State.

    ————————————————– ——————————

    The sixth point

    One: Dates: 15/05/1948 by Israel, a truce was declared the first 10/06/1948 (1368).

    Occupation of the whole of Palestine: 06/10/1967 = (1387H – Lunar Year)

    The end of Israel expected :6-03/10/2022 (1443H – Lunar Year)

    • hi M

      There were 19 judges in Israel, northern kingdom.

      There were 20 judges in Judah, southern kingdom.

      http://www.theoldtimegospel.org/others/lists_kings.html

      The calculations are interesting, but 19 is not a relevant number in the bible. Neither is 57.

      50 is a relevant number. Messiah should come in a Jubilee year, because it is a year of peace and restoration. The next one is 2017. 50 years from that is 2067.

      The future of Israel is already set forth by God, and Jesus said only God knew when Jesus would return. This means using numbers will not help us be accurate.

      I agree that the Israel that we know now, will end, because we soon expect a Messianic kingdom to arise after the tribulation. Jacob’s trouble ends 3 1/2 years after the abomination occurs.

      This time of ending will not just apply to Israel. It will apply to all countries. Wars will stop. Human sin and greed for power will be destroyed. The governments will have to submit to God, and his Messiah. The economy will not be an issue anymore. In other words, the secular world government ends, and the kingdom of God is established physically on earth.

      However, if nothing happened until 2022, that would give sinners extra time to repent of their ways.

      The timing can be calculated different ways. So, 2022 is possible, depending on your frame of reference. This is something I have also looked at:

      http://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/the-hebrew-timeline-for-the-messianic-kingdom/

      http://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/the-hebrew-timeline-for-the-messianic-kingdom/

      http://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/harvest-times-in-the-end-times/

      http://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/when-is-the-appointed-time/

      For me, I choose to just wait and see what happens next.

    • There is NO DEMISE of Israel because when Yeshua opens the Eastern Gate, He will FIGHT FOR ISRAEL and I guess that means you will be dead…that is if you are the one fighting HIM….

      Why don’t you read what REALLY HAPPENS instead of some dead guy’s fantasy! It is in the HOLY Bible, Book of Revelations

  139. Everybody who is fantasizing about return of Jesus should go and sober themselves. He is not coming any time soon. I am 300% sure.

    I think Jews themselves took care of him and nailed him to the cross to make sure he doesnt come back, and now these Jews expect him to return. I just cant imagine how twisted their logic is.

    We are doing very well under the leadership of Obama and we will find peace too very soon. We dont need Jesus to come to a petty thing like peace, unless he wants to come and give GOld to everybody.

    Suzy.

    • Suzy

      Jesus died, but he also rose from the dead.

      He will return.

      The country is a disaster under Obama. Our country has never been in worse shape. He has not done anything right yet. EVen his own political party does not like him.

      It would be better to hope for Jesus, than to expect any miracle from Obama, or any other world leader.

      • I have known many people who have risen from dead. Rising from dead is no more a big deal.

        The last person I met who rose from dead was a poor chef. He said his soul was outside his body and he saw his body on the operation table with doctors working on it.

        Time has moved on and this is 21st century where science has replace everything. As you maybe knowing that 40% of all the Christians do not believe in Bible anymore, they can see all the flaws in it. Most of these have chosen to become either atheist or agnostics.

        Just a little more progress in sicence and technology and wuff Religion will be gone out of the window forever.

        Suzy.

        • suzy

          That is not rising from the dead. That is an out of the body experience. The person never died.

          You have fake statistics.

          Science will get us all killed soon.

    • Just so you know, you will have to give an account for every word you have written against G-D and His Son and His People!

      And I will gladly say, yes, lord, I called her an idiot! Was she not? LOL

  140. Leatherneck,

    Most religious characters are weird. Remember that Jesus wasnt even man enough to marry, he had no testicals at all. That is why he preached others that if they want to get to kingdom of heaven then they should castrate themselves. He himself mentioned that there are enunch who are this way by birth (jesus himself) and then he asked others to become enunch.

    Actually quite a comical novel can be written around all religious characters. Remember Moses could not speak properly as he put burning wood in his mouth when he was a child.

    Suzy.

    • Why do you post here?

      • I am just giving you tips for writing a comical book, which can becomea New York Times best seller and fetch you good money…..

        Suzy.

        • id·i·ot   /ˈɪdiət/ Show Spelled[id-ee-uht] Show IPA
          –noun
          1. an utterly foolish or senseless person.
          2. Psychology . a person of the lowest order in a former classification of mental retardation, having a mental age of less than three years old and an intelligence quotient under 25.
          Use idiot in a Sentence….Suzy is an idiot; a person of the lowest order.

          http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/idiot

          • My IQ is very high, My science teacher gave me an IQ of 75, which is very high.

            Suzy.

            • Suzy, I am not trying to hurt your feelings….there is a vast difference between intelligence and WISDOM; Knowledge versus UNDERSTANDING. Bart Ehrman is a perfect example of this. Bart makes a point to show all the degrees he has but doesn’t have a clue the first thing of G-D, His Scriptures-the TRUTH. That is a waste of money, intellect and brain cells!
              **************************************
              Proverbs 9
              Invitations of Wisdom and of Folly

              1Wisdom has built her house;

              she has hewn out its seven pillars.

              2She has prepared her meat and mixed her wine;

              she has also set her table.

              3She has sent out her maids, and she calls

              from the highest point of the city.

              4“Let all who are simple come in here!”

              she says to those who lack judgment.

              5“Come, eat my food

              and drink the wine I have mixed.

              6Leave your simple ways and you will live;

              walk in the way of understanding.

              7“Whoever corrects a mocker invites insult;

              whoever rebukes a wicked man incurs abuse.

              8Do not rebuke a mocker or he will hate you;

              rebuke a wise man and he will love you.

              9Instruct a wise man and he will be wiser still;

              teach a righteous man and he will add to his learning.

              10“The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom,

              and knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

              11For through me your days will be many,

              and years will be added to your life.

              12If you are wise, your wisdom will reward you;

              if you are a mocker, you alone will suffer.”

              13The woman Folly is loud;

              she is undisciplined and without knowledge.

              14She sits at the door of her house,

              on a seat at the highest point of the city,

              15calling out to those who pass by,

              who go straight on their way.

              16“Let all who are simple come in here!”

              she says to those who lack judgment.

              17“Stolen water is sweet;

              food eaten in secret is delicious!”

              18But little do they know that the dead are there,

              that her guests are in the depths of the grave.a

  141. My next topic of interest is Anti-Christ. What information you have about him??? They say he will be very Charismatic and will be from Russia????

    Suzy.

    • Suzy

      He sounds like someone you would enjoy meeting. Maybe he will be from your country.

      • Does he come before Jesus or after Jesus return???? If we have more info on Anti-Christ then we can assess better date of return of Jesus.

        Suzy.

        • and he comes before Jesus’ return…he has only a short time to be the royal pain that he is…kinda like you…:) But yes, the AC is already here…in different forms, thru different people…LIKE YOU…..But there is also THE Anti-Christ, and we are just waiting on him to reveal himself…but, yes, THE anti-christ is already here and he will possess his OBJECT/Person of choice at the designated time.

          And THEN, Jesus comes and WOOPS HIS BUTT-Publicly, for all the world to see!!!!!!!

    • Yes, lets talk about you now Suzy!

  142. thought we needed “the cow” LOL

  143. AS the lightning comes from the east….

  144. Where will Anti-Christ take birth???? Some say he will born in Jerusalem and some say he will born in some Sin City.

    Will there be a direct face to face fight b/w Christ and Anti-Christ?

    Suzy.

    • The Antichrist, I believe has already been born, and is already active in the world. He has not yet revealed himself.

      yes, there will be a direct face to face confrontation between Christ and the Antichrist.

      • I guess it will be an earth shattering fight. I hope the earth wont lose its orbit.

        Suzy.

        • Actually, when Jesus steps foot upon the mount of olives there will be a huge earthquake as stated and described in the scriptures! Amazingly, over thousands of years ago in the dead sea scrolls Zechariah is describing the tetatonic plates and which direction they will shift! How could he have known this? Only a seismologists is able to know this and not unless he has years of education studying it. This is just one of many PROOFS that the scriptures are divinely written.
          Zechariah 14:4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south.

          And further, regarding the earth losing orbit…Isaiah 24:18….The floodgates of the heavens are opened,

          the foundations of the earth shake.

          19The earth is broken up,

          the earth is split asunder,

          the earth is thoroughly shaken.

          20The earth reels like a drunkard,

          it sways like a hut in the wind;

          so heavy upon it is the guilt of its rebellion

          that it falls—never to rise again.

          21In that day the Lord will punish

          the powers in the heavens above

          and the kings on the earth below.

          22They will be herded together

          like prisoners bound in a dungeon;

          they will be shut up in prison

          and be punisheda after many days.

          23The moon will be abashed, the sun ashamed;

          for the Lord Almighty will reign

          on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem,

          and before its elders, gloriously.

          From the sounds of this, it does look like the earth will lose more than its orbit!

  145. Is Mark of Gospel and Mark of beast the same person?

    Suzy.

  146. In the olden days when people wanted to give sacrifice to GOd they would slaughter the sheep and leave it in the field. If God accepted the sacrifice then lightening would come and strike the sacrifice.

    Have any one of you tried this type of thing??? Were you successful?

    Suzy.

    • Sacrifices and Offerings
      To sanctify the firstling of clean cattle and offer it up (Ex. 13:2; Deut. 15:19) (at the present time, it is not offered up) (CCA53).
      To slay the Paschal lamb (Ex. 12:6) (affirmative).
      To eat the flesh of the Paschal sacrifice on the night of the fifteenth of Nissan (Ex. 12:8) (affirmative).
      Not to eat the flesh of the Paschal lamb raw or sodden (Ex. 12:9) (negative).
      Not to leave any portion of the flesh of the Paschal sacrifice until the morning unconsumed (Ex. 12:10) (negative).
      Not to give the flesh of the Paschal lamb to an Israelite who had become an apostate (Ex. 12:43) (negative).
      Not to give flesh of the Paschal lamb to a stranger who lives among you to eat (Ex. 12:45) (negative).
      Not to take any of the flesh of the Paschal lamb from the company’s place of assembly (Ex. 12:46) (negative).
      Not to break a bone of the Paschal lamb (Ex. 12:46) (negative).
      That the uncircumcised shall not eat of the flesh of the Paschal lamb (Ex. 12:48) (negative). See Brit Milah: Circumcision
      Not to slaughter the Paschal lamb while there is chametz in the home (Ex. 23:18; Ex. 24:25) (negative).
      Not to leave the part of the Paschal lamb that should be burnt on the altar until the morning, when it will no longer be fit to be burnt (Ex. 23:18; Ex. 24:25) (negative).
      Not to go up to the Sanctuary for the festival without bringing an offering (Ex. 23:15) (negative).
      To bring the first fruits to the Sanctuary (Ex. 23:19) (affirmative).
      That the flesh of a sin-offering and guilt-offering shall be eaten (Ex. 29:33) (affirmative). See Qorbanot: Sacrifices and Offerings
      That one not of the seed of Aaron, shall not eat the flesh of the holy sacrifices (Ex. 29:33) (negative).
      To observe the procedure of the burnt-offering (Lev. 1:3) (affirmative). See Olah: Burnt Offering.
      To observe the procedure of the meal-offering (Lev. 2:1) (affirmative). See Food and Drink Offerings.
      Not to offer up leaven or honey (Lev. 2:11) (negative).
      That every sacrifice be salted (Lev. 2:13) (affirmative).
      Not to offer up any offering unsalted (Lev. 2:13) (negative).
      That the Court of Judgment shall offer up a sacrifice if they have erred in a judicial pronouncement (Lev. 4:13) (affirmative).
      That an individual shall bring a sin-offering if he has sinned in error by committing a transgression, the conscious violation of which is punished with excision (Lev. 4:27-28) (affirmative). See Chatat: Sin Offering.
      To offer a sacrifice of varying value in accordance with one’s means (Lev. 5:7) (affirmative).
      Not to sever completely the head of a fowl brought as a sin-offering (Lev. 5:8) (negative).
      Not to put olive oil in a sin-offering made of flour (Lev. 5:11) (negative).
      Not to put frankincense on a sin-offering made of flour (Lev. 5:11) (negative).
      That an individual shall bring an offering if he is in doubt as to whether he has committed a sin for which one has to bring a sin-offering. This is called a guilt-offering for doubtful sins (Lev. 5:17-19) (affirmative). See Asham: Guilt Offering.
      That the remainder of the meal offerings shall be eaten (Lev. 6:9) (affirmative).
      Not to allow the remainder of the meal offerings to become leavened (Lev. 6:10) (negative).
      That the High Kohein shall offer a meal offering daily (Lev. 6:13) (affirmative).
      Not to eat of the meal offering brought by the kohanim (Lev. 6:16) (negative).
      To observe the procedure of the sin-offering (Lev. 6:18) (affirmative). See Chatat: Sin Offering.
      Not to eat of the flesh of sin offerings, the blood of which is brought within the Sanctuary and sprinkled towards the Veil (Lev. 6:23) (negative).
      To observe the procedure of the guilt-offering (Lev. 7:1) (affirmative).See Asham: Guilt Offering.
      To observe the procedure of the peace-offering (Lev. 7:11) (affirmative). See Zebach Sh’lamim: Peace Offering.
      To burn meat of the holy sacrifice that has remained over (Lev. 7:17) (affirmative).
      Not to eat of sacrifices that are eaten beyond the appointed time for eating them (Lev. 7:18) The penalty is excision (negative).
      Not to eat of holy things that have become unclean (Lev. 7:19) (negative).
      To burn meat of the holy sacrifice that has become unclean (Lev. 7:19) (affirmative).
      That a person who is unclean shall not eat of things that are holy (Lev. 7:20) (negative).
      A kohein’s daughter who profaned herself shall not eat of the holy things, neither of the heave offering nor of the breast, nor of the shoulder of peace offerings (Lev. 10:14, Lev. 22:12) (negative). See Kohein.
      That a woman after childbirth shall bring an offering when she is clean (Lev. 12:6) (affirmative). See Birth.
      That the leper shall bring a sacrifice after he is cleansed (Lev. 14:10) (affirmative).
      That a man having an issue shall bring a sacrifice after he is cleansed of his issue (Lev. 15:13-15) (affirmative).
      That a woman having an issue shall bring a sacrifice after she is cleansed of her issue (Lev. 15:28-30) (affirmative).
      To observe, on Yom Kippur, the service appointed for that day, regarding the sacrifice, confessions, sending away of the scapegoat, etc. (Lev. 16:3-34) (affirmative).
      Not to slaughter beasts set apart for sacrifices outside (the Sanctuary) (Lev. 17:3-4) (negative).
      Not to eat flesh of a sacrifice that has been left over (beyond the time appointed for its consumption) (Lev. 19:8) (negative).
      Not to sanctify blemished cattle for sacrifice on the altar (Lev. 22:20) This text prohibits such beasts being set apart for sacrifice on the altar (negative).
      That every animal offered up shall be without blemish (Lev. 22:21) (affirmative).
      Not to inflict a blemish on cattle set apart for sacrifice (Lev. 22:21) (negative).
      Not to slaughter blemished cattle as sacrifices (Lev. 22:22) (negative).
      Not to burn the limbs of blemished cattle upon the altar (Lev. 22:22) (negative).
      Not to sprinkle the blood of blemished cattle upon the altar (Lev. 22:24) (negative).
      Not to offer up a blemished beast that comes from non-Israelites (Lev. 22:25) (negative).
      That sacrifices of cattle can only take place when they are at least eight days old (Lev. 22:27) (affirmative).
      Not to leave any flesh of the thanksgiving offering until the morning (Lev. 22:30) (negative).
      To offer up the meal-offering of the Omer on the morrow after the first day of Passover, together with one lamb (Lev. 23:10) (affirmative). See The Counting of the Omer.
      Not to eat bread made of new grain before the Omer of barley has been offered up on the second day of Passover (Lev. 23:14) (CCN101). See The Counting of the Omer.
      Not to eat roasted grain of the new produce before that time (Lev. 23:14) (CCN102). See The Counting of the Omer.
      Not to eat fresh ears of the new grain before that time (Lev. 23:14) (CCN103). See The Counting of the Omer.
      To bring on Shavu’ot loaves of bread together with the sacrifices which are then offered up in connection with the loaves (Lev. 23:17-20) (affirmative).
      To offer up an additional sacrifice on Passover (Lev. 23:36) (affirmative).
      That one who vows to the L-rd the monetary value of a person shall pay the amount appointed in the Scriptural portion (Lev. 27:2-8) (affirmative).
      If a beast is exchanged for one that had been set apart as an offering, both become sacred (Lev. 27:10) (affirmative).
      Not to exchange a beast set aside for sacrifice (Lev. 27:10) (negative).
      That one who vows to the L-rd the monetary value of an unclean beast shall pay its value (Lev. 27:11-13) (affirmative).
      That one who vows the value of his house shall pay according to the appraisal of the kohein (Lev. 27:11-13) (affirmative). See Kohein.
      That one who sanctifies to the L-rd a portion of his field shall pay according to the estimation appointed in the Scriptural portion (Lev. 27:16-24) (affirmative).
      Not to transfer a beast set apart for sacrifice from one class of sacrifices to another (Lev. 27:26) (negative).
      To decide in regard to dedicated property as to which is sacred to the Lord and which belongs to the kohein (Lev. 27:28) (affirmative). See Kohein.
      Not to sell a field devoted to the Lord (Lev. 27:28) (negative).
      Not to redeem a field devoted to the Lord (Lev. 27:28) (negative).
      To make confession before the L-rd of any sin that one has committed, when bringing a sacrifice and at other times (Num. 5:6-7) (CCA33).
      Not to put olive oil in the meal-offering of a woman suspected of adultery (Num. 5:15) (negative).
      Not to put frankincense on it (Num. 5:15) (negative).
      To offer up the regular sacrifices daily (two lambs as burnt offerings) (Num. 28:3) (affirmative).
      To offer up an additional sacrifice every Shabbat (two lambs) (Num. 28:9) (affirmative).
      To offer up an additional sacrifice every New Moon (Num. 28:11) (affirmative).
      To bring an additional offering on Shavu’ot (Num. 28:26-27) (affirmative).
      To offer up an additional sacrifice on Rosh Hashanah (Num. 29:1-6) (affirmative).
      To offer up an additional sacrifice on Yom Kippur (Num. 29:7-8) (affirmative).
      To offer up an additional sacrifice on Sukkot (Num. 29:12-34) (affirmative).
      To offer up an additional offering on Shemini Atzeret, which is a festival by itself (Num. 29:35-38) (affirmative).
      To bring all offerings, whether obligatory or freewill, on the first festival after these were incurred (Deut. 12:5-6) (affirmative).
      Not to offer up sacrifices outside (the Sanctuary) (Deut. 12:13) (negative).
      To offer all sacrifices in the Sanctuary (Deut. 12:14) (affirmative).
      To redeem cattle set apart for sacrifices that contracted disqualifying blemishes, after which they may be eaten by anyone. (Deut. 12:15) (affirmative).
      Not to eat of the unblemished firstling outside Jerusalem (Deut. 12:17) (negative).
      Not to eat the flesh of the burnt-offering (Deut. 12:17). This is a Prohibition applying to every trespasser, not to enjoy any of the holy things. If he does so, he commits a trespass (negative).
      That the kohanim shall not eat the flesh of the sin-offering or guilt-offering outside the Courtyard (of the Sanctuary) (Deut. 12:17) (negative).
      Not to eat of the flesh of the sacrifices that are holy in a minor degree, before the blood has been sprinkled (on the altar), (Deut. 12:17) (negative).
      That the kohein shall not eat the first-fruits before they are set down in the Courtyard (of the Sanctuary) (Deut. 12:17) (negative).
      To take trouble to bring sacrifices to the Sanctuary from places outside the land of Israel (Deut. 12:26) (affirmative).
      Not to eat the flesh of beasts set apart as sacrifices, that have been rendered unfit to be offered up by deliberately inflicted blemish (Deut. 14:3) (negative).
      Not to do work with cattle set apart for sacrifice (Deut. 15:19) (negative).
      Not to shear beasts set apart for sacrifice (Deut. 15:19) (negative).
      Not to leave any portion of the festival offering brought on the fourteenth of Nissan unto the third day (Deut. 16:4) (negative).
      Not to offer up a beast that has a temporary blemish (Deut. 17:1) (negative).
      Not to bring sacrifices out of the hire of a harlot or price of a dog (apparently a euphemism for sodomy) (Deut. 23:19) (negative).
      To read the portion prescribed on bringing the first fruits (Deut. 26:5-10) (affirmative).

      http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm

    • AND this is NOT how they DID their sacrifices….where are your references? You have none. AND Jesus was the FINAL SACRIFICE-He died on a cross-He GAVE HIS LIFE EVEN FOR YOU! And you MOCK HIM in return!

    • To offer all sacrifices in the Sanctuary (Deut. 12:14) (affirmative).

      http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm

  147. Suzy,

    I think you are very sad and lonely and come here to stir up trouble. READ and study the Holy Bible. Pray for understanding of God’s word. HE will give it to you if you are serious, if you are just messing around you will still be lost. Mark’s Gospel is not the mark of the beast.

    Emily

  148. Hi All,
    I would like to share with you the below link. It is really interesting from logic and science point of views…

    Suzy, I think you will like this :)

    Thanks in advance for watching it.

    • John 8:39“Abraham is our father,” they answered.

      “If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would do the things Abraham did. 40As it is, you are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41You are doing the things your own father does.”

      “We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”

      The Children of the Devil

      42Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. 43Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47He who belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”

  149. First video:

    Second video:

    • hi Mahmoud

      I appreciate the desire to find Muhammed in the bible, but the logic does not apply well here. I also appreciate your desire to support your faith. But Muhammed really was not mentioned in the scriptures.

      Let me explain:

      Song of Songs is not a prophecy about a prophet to come.
      It is a love song and here, the woman is speaking about her beloved. It is not predicting the future, even about Jesus. Now, the relationship between a believer and Jesus could be compared to two that love each other, but it does not mean that the Song of Songs was about Jesus, or Muhammed. It was contemporary for its meaning- and it was about Solomon only.

      the word machmad means desire, or object of desire, due to grace or beauty.

      It is an impersonal noun, NOT a personal one.

      It is like the word Natan, which means to give. Natan can also be a man’s name. But the context is important as to the true meaning. In a sentence it is either a person, or it is saying “to give.”

      The punctuation is very important. Because without it, you could have a completely different word, which give a wrong meaning to the sentence.

      THis word is correctly pronounced as a 2 syllable word, not a 3 syllable word. I am not sure who was reading in the video, but that was not the correct pronunciation.
      >
      >
      >
      >

      video 2;

      It is not clear who is saying “we killed Jesus we are proud of it.” Since none of the Jews were seen speaking, and that voice could have been superimposed on the picture to make it seem like the Jews said it.

      THe concept here is to assume someone who says they are a prophet should be accepted as one. But there are criteria that have to be met to be a prophet.

      To speak scripture does not make one a prophet. I can do that too, because I have studied it. But I am not a prophet.

      God warns men who say God has spoken to them, when he has NOT spoken, that they will be condemned. So, it is important not to accept just anyone saying they are a prophet. They could be a false prophet. The book of Jeremiah, for example, speaks a great deal about this topic.

      A true prophet will live the word of God. He will be 100% accurate. If he makes errors, then he is a false prophet.

      There are mistakes in the Quran.

      http://www.1000mistakes.com/1000mistakes/index.php

      There is no record of Muhammed even making a prophecy that came true.

      The video claims Muhammed never hurt anyone. “He was a mercy to mankind. He was a man who dealt gently with all people. Never in his life did he ever lift his hand to hit any human being. He never committed fornication or adultery. He never looked upon any woman with lust in his entire life. He stood 4-5 hours at night and prayed.”

      None of this is true. Muhammed was a warlord, and killed many people. By biblical standards, he committed adultery by having multiple wives. A man is supposed to have only one wife. And a man is forbidden to have sex with a child. He lusted after his child bride, and took her as a child.

      I do not believe Muhammed prayed at night. He is said to have bragged he had the sex drive of 50 men. That shows where his mind was, and what his body was doing.

      Muhammed was an ordinary man, and a sinner, like everyone else that has lived, except Jesus. His life was not perfect, and he had imperfections as a human. If he was greater than Jesus, then he would have healed more people, and raised more people from the dead. But he could not do any of that.

      In your own faith, it is Jesus that is returning to help mankind, not Muhammed.

      If Muhammed was greater than Jesus, why doesn’t he come back instead to give world peace?

  150. When was Moses given Torah??? Was it 1312 or 1350 BC???

    Suzy.

    • Suzy

      Why do you ask me trivia?

      On the hebrew calendar, Joshua took over about 2490, which followed the death of Moses.

      They were in the desert for 40 years.

      So 40 years before 2490 would be 2530 on the hebrew calendar, if the whole TOrah was given at the time of the 10 commandments. But the Torah does not say this.

      modern Judaism says the TOrah was given about 3307 years ago, which would have made it about 2463 Hebrew time. This would have been toward the end of the exodus. THis wold mean they started out with the 10 commandments, and then Moses wrote the rest while in the desert, and had it completed 27 years before they left the desert, and Joshua took over.

      It is now 5770, and 2463 would be 5770 – 2463 = 3307 years ago

      So, 2010 AD – 3307 = 1297 BCE

      I am not a math expert. You need to ask someone else for confirmation.

  151. Marianne,

    Reading from the links you sent I stumbled across a sentence which said that Moses mentioned that there will come a Prophet after me who will be most like me. Now can you tell me if that Prophet has already come or is going to come???? Was he “Edgar Cacey”???

    • Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God is not mocked, for whatever one sows, that will he also reap.

    • Suzy

      I did not send you a link like that.

      You are asking a typical Muslim question which is supposed to lead into the answer, “Muhammad of course.”

      The prophet Moses was referring to was Jesus, the Messiah.

      Remember, this old testament was scripture for the Jews. It was about the Jews, and for the Jews. It was not about Arabs. Jesus was the Jewish prophet that was referenced.

      • You reference to: http://www.1000mistakes.com,

        Now coming to the question Jesus was not a Prophet, he was a God or son-God, clearly saying of Moses is not applicable to Jesus. So Moses must have talked about someone who would be a Prophet. There came many Prophets after Moses. So I wanted to know which one it was?

        Suzy.

        • Jesus fulfilled the role of a prophet as well as the role of Messiah.

          Moses deliver the Hebrew people physically, and help set up the Law

          Jesus delivered the Hebrew people spiritually, and expounded upon the law, and made its deeper meaning more clear. Jesus also delivered physically, since he could heal, by the power of God.

          Both Moses and Jesus were deliverers. No other prophets accomplished what they did in deliverance.

          Jesus is not a “sun god,” which is a false god.

          He is the (spirit) son of God. His Father is God. And that is a completely separate topic. I have posts on this.

  152. Marianne,

    I won’t answer you but this video can tell you many things also. Muhammad was getting married to women for reasons and he was ordered by God to do so. For every woman he got married to there was a reason again. If Muhammad was a womanizer then he wouldn’t get married to ladies who were much older than him.
    Second. There are many forums, videos, movies, articles ..etc saying that the Jewish are really proud of killing Jesus and the internet is a big ocean for you to find so.

    Children of Israel have been known by Prophets’ killers and this what Quran says about them:

    “O Children of Israel! Remember My favor wherewith I favored you, and fulfil your (part of the) covenant, I shall fulfil My (part of the) covenant and fear Me. And believe in that which I reveal, confirming that which ye possess already (of the Scripture), and be not first to disbelieve therein, and part not with My revelations for a trifling price, and keep your duty unto Me.
    Confound not truth with falsehood, nor knowingly conceal the truth.

    And verily We gave unto Moses the Scripture and We caused a train of messengers to follow after him, and We gave unto Jesus, son of Mary, clear proofs (of Allah’s sovereignty), and We supported him with the holy Spirit. Is it ever so, that, when there cometh unto you a messenger (from Allah) with that which ye yourselves desire not, ye grow arrogant, and some ye disbelieve and some ye slay?

    And when Jesus son of Mary said: O Children of Israel! Lo! I am the messenger of Allah unto you, confirming that which was (revealed) before me in the Torah, and bringing good tidings of a messenger who cometh after me, whose name is the Praised One. Yet when he hath come unto them with clear proofs, they say: This is mere magic.

    Anyhow, watch this video which is basically from scientist and logical people who believe only on science. Their admissions make sense I guess.. Watch it and God bless you:

    • Hi Mahmoud

      If Muhammad’s god told him to marry multiple wives, then he is not the God of the bible. Yahweh does not violate his own laws.

      As a scientist myself, I see things said that don’t make any sense:

      It is clear that it is Allah speaking

      And he followed a road Till, when he reached the setting-place of the sun, he found it setting in a muddy spring, and found a people thereabout. S. 18

      * One cannot reach the setting place of the sun or the rising place of the sun. If you are at a place where you see the sunrise you are not at the place where it is rising. Likewise if you are at a place where you see the sunset you are not at the place where it is setting.

      * The Sun does not set in a muddy pool.

      • Is this true?

        • Mahmoud

          Let us look at the actual facts:

          Yes, Jews and Romans were there when Christ died.

          There were about 4 million Jews living there in Israel, but they were under Roman rule.

          http://ldolphin.org/popul.html

          I am not sure how many lived in Jerusalem, where the trial took place.

          Jesus was popular in Israel, which is why he was a threat to the social order. The only ones who opposed Jesus were the Pharisees. The Sadducees left Jesus alone. Jewish leadership was afraid the Jews would make him king, and get them in trouble with the Romans. Instead of supporting Jesus, they were angry at him. This was an elite group in the hierarchy of the temple. I am guessing there were 100-200 members, or less, at the time.

          Most of Israel had nothing to do with the trial of Jesus, and never opposed him. Most of Israel did not live in Jerusalem, and did not even know what was going on, until it was too late. They liked him because he was kind to people.

          So about 100-200 people wanted to remove Jesus. I have seen the courtyard of the area where the trial took place with Pilate. The area is small, so only a small group would fit in there.

          Romans were the government, so they were approached to punish Jesus. They found him innocent, but they did cooperate, and kill Jesus anyhow.

          In conclusion, I would say that about 100-200 people really wanted Jesus dead, and they had the support of maybe another 200 that could fit into Pilate’s courtyard. This is out of about 4 million Jews.

          So because about 400 Jews, plus a few Romans, were involved in the death of Jesus, we have had a big mess for 2000 years, where ALL the Jews in the entire land of Israel were blamed for the death. If they had taken a nation wide vote, Jesus would have lived.

          The bible has a comment on all this. It says that every person who has ever sinned is guilty of the crucifixion. This is because Jesus gave up his life voluntarily to take the punishment for our sins. So, if we have ever committed a sin, then we are guilty too.

          My answer is then, that every person who ever lived, killed Jesus. Because if we were not sinners, he would have no reason to die.

          Unless we can see our own guilt, and realize the horror of it, we can never correctly repent before God, and receive forgiveness. Every time we lie, or hurt someone, or believe a lie, or do anything wrong, we are driving a nail right through Jesus all over again.

  153. Marianne,
    Why are you enterprising on the wives? :)Do you mean that he was over horny man? he did not rapes women here and there, he did not jump into others’ wives. He basically was married in decent and legal way.
    Your problem is that you interpret words as you read them and you do not see the meaning behind them. Each language in the world has its deep expressions and Arabic language is such a rich language of such expressions. Example, when I tell you: You fell from my eye. This does not mean that you physically fell from my eye because that does not make sense but the main meaning is that you (in my opinion or vision) were something high but I got disappointed. So the setting place of the sun means the sunset location at the area where this story took place. If I ask you: Where is the sunset and the sunrise in New York? You will answer, it is here and here. So based on your position you assume its rising place and setting place.
    I hope I was clear enough and the concept of the sentence is clear to you.

    • Mahmoud

      It is clear from the Quran [(An-Nisa (WOMEN)] that men can have 4 wives. This is against the bible, which requires only one wife, unless she commits adultery, and then the man is free to divorce her and remarry. So how can Allah and Yahweh be the same God? Their rules are different.

      I am also concerned about the Quran promoting ethnic cleansing, and the history which backs this up. The Quran generalizes about the Jews, and makes them all bad, so that they need to be punished. The slaughter of the Jews in Medina is a good example.

      http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/jews.htm

  154. Moreover, God says:
    Neither is it allowable to the sun that it should overtake the moon, nor can the night outstrip the day; and all float on in a sphere.

    Explanation:
    Allah talks about the Sun and Moon, how each of them
    orbits in its own path, with its own speed, never deviating from
    their path, nor obstructing the other. Their obedience is so
    focused unlike us Human Beings, forever deviating from the right
    track, interfering into other’s affairs, wasting time and energy on non productive issues

    • Allah talks, or Mohammad talks about what Allah wants? Plus, Hubal can not see, or hear. He is the moon.

  155. Marianne,

    What’s the point in religion??? I mean:

    1. A person born in christian family is christian
    2. A person born in Muslim family is Muslim
    3. A person born in Hindu family is a Hindu
    4. and so on……………..

    This means that instrinsic values of a religion does not play any role, it is all based on birth association, and also it is based on race and ethnicity.

    Did GOd intend it this way??? as this is true by and large….

    Suzy.

    • This is Man’s idea, not God’s.

      By the way, a person born in christian family is NOT christian. He has to make an act of faith. True, his family may influence him in this direction, but this may also not be the case.

  156. I Corinthians 2:14

    But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritally appraised.

    • Marianne,

      You missed the entire point. By and large a person adopts the religion of his parents. I know there are some exception but those are too few. All religions gain and lose some followers but this is a very small number compared to the total in percentage.

      A big chunk of one religion will not convert to another religion, which is historicallly proven. And it is God who decides in which family the person will be born.

      People slowly adopt the religion of the land over a long period of time. So in land controlled by muslims people adopted islam and in lands controlled by Christians people adopted christianity over time.

      Moreover if you look at the spread of Christianity you will find it is a piecewise functional correlation, meaning that its spread by not one outburst, but it happend over a period of 2000 year in pieces. People in Americas are Christians cuz of Europeans discovering the land and then they came and killed and preached the bible and spent the missionary money.

      Much of the spread of Christianity is based on Missionary funding. THey go to poor areas and influence people who are illetrate and are clean slated in their minds, such gullibles become christian and then their population grows over time. Had Christians got no money the spread would not go outside Europe.

      Of Course similar charges are put against islam, that it spread but sword. However one thing which is peculiar is that its spread was one continuous outburst.

      Another amazing religion is Hinduism, this religion for the most part stayed within the boundaries of India and grew within its own boundaries. WHy??? Cuz indians were never imperialist and they never had the funds to proliferate their religion.

      Keeping all this in mind then how can one demand a person to become a Christian otherwise he/she would be lost. Was it not GOd in the first place who chose where one would born, Wsa it not God who gives rise to nations one after another…..

      So when one particular nation gets a rise it starts to think that its rise is unique and is driven by God’s hand. And that no such thing can happen to any other nation.

      So this material written above tell me that there is a strong chance that people who non-Christians will remain non-Christians by boat loads. So if Chrisitanit is truth then GOd himself has place a hurdle in peoples way.

      Another hurdle is Ethincity, how can white and black mix??? how can white and brown mix. Dont point towards the exception which happens these days.

      If there is God and he chose all of the above then the only reason I find is that he knew who would buy his true religion and who wont. So he has already separated good from bad, yes there will be some conversions but by and large the ones who are good are already born into that religion. Since God is not an author of confusion there has to be only one true religion, so to say, and it could be any out of Christianity, Islam, Hindusiam and so on….

      Suzy.

      • hi Suzy

        It is still man’s decision. God, in the beginning, established the correct relationship.

        Man decided to go away from this. Each generation decided to continue its beliefs by passing them on to the children, who accepted them.

        All this is man’s doing. God gave us investigative and inquiring minds.

        But we chose to be passive and accept whatever comes our way.

        The children suffer for the actions of their parents and grandparents. Good decisions and bad decisions. This is why some families are poor, and some are rich. Some made smart decisions, and some poor decisions which affected their children.

        In each generation, I believe God does something to reveal himself, or stimulate people to question their lives, and what their society tells them. People either pay attention, or ignore the stimulus.

        For those who pay attention, and do their best to seek out more of god, God will reward them. He will plant in their spirits his laws, and they will be righteous before him.

        This is called the law of the gentiles, when people naturally follow the true laws of God, without ever knowing who Jesus is, who taught the laws. God plants this consciousness in the inner spirit, of the person who has no knowledge, or choice, of other religions.

        Knowing and following the teachings of Jesus is the easiest way, because the work is done for us. Having to find out the hard way is more stressful.

        Jesus is the way to the Father, whether he is accepted directly,through knowing him, or indirectly, through the inner spirit.

  157. THURSDAY, AUGUST 19, 2010

    AN EXAMPLE OF GOD’S PURPOSE IN OUR TAKING SPOILS

    While David and his army were away, the Amalekites raided his village of
    Ziklag. These marauding invaders took all the women and children and burned
    down the whole town. When David returned, he “was greatly distressed; for the
    people spake of stoning him…but David encouraged himself in the Lord his God”
    (1 Samuel 30:6).

    Talk about spiritual warfare! This wasn’t just an attack against David. It was
    an all-out assault against God’s eternal purpose. Once again, the devil was
    after God’s seed.

    This is the focus of all spiritual warfare: The enemy has always been
    determined to destroy the seed of Christ. And that fact hasn’t changed even
    2000 years after the Cross. Satan is still out to destroy God’s seed, and he
    does this by attacking us, the seed of Christ. David felt threatened when he
    heard the grumbling of his men. But David knew his heart was right with God,
    and Scripture says he encouraged himself in the Lord. Immediately, this man of
    faith took off in pursuit of the Amalekites. And he quickly overtook them,
    rescuing every person and possession that had been taken (see 1 Samuel
    30:19–20). David not only recovered what was taken from Ziklag but everything
    else the Amalekites had plundered.

    What did David do with all these spoils of war? He used them to maintain the
    purposes of God. In addition, he sent gifts of the spoils to the elders of
    Judah and to the towns where he and his men had been hiding (see 1 Samuel 30:26
    and 31). This is another example of God’s purpose in our spiritual warfare.
    We’re to take spoils from battle not just for ourselves, but for the body of
    Christ. The resources we gain are meant to bring blessing to others.

    The Syrian army besieged the city of Samaria during a famine. The Syrians
    simply camped outside the city, waiting for the Samaritans to starve.
    Conditions got so bad within the city walls, a donkey’s head sold for eighty
    pieces of silver. Things grew so desperate that women were offering their
    children to be boiled for food. It was sheer insanity (see 2 Kings 6).

    Four lepers who lived outside the city walls finally said to themselves, “Why
    sit we here until we die?…Now therefore come, and let us fall unto the host
    of the Syrians: if they save us alive, we shall live; and if they kill us, we
    shall but die” (2 Kings 7:3–4). So they set out for the Syrian camp.

    When they arrived, everything was deathly still. Not a soul was in sight. So
    they searched every tent, but everyone was gone. Scripture explains: “The Lord
    had made the host of the Syrians to hear a noise of chariots, and a noise of
    horses, even the noise of a great host: and they said one to another, Lo, the
    king of Israel hath hired against us the kings of the Hittites, and the kings
    of the Egyptians, to come upon us. Wherefore they arose and fled in the
    twilight, and left their tents, and their horses…even the camp as it was, and
    fled for their life” (7:6–7).

    When the lepers realized this, they went throughout the camp eating and
    drinking and then they went back to the city and called out, “Come with us. You
    won’t believe it, but the Syrians have fled their camp” (see 7:10). The Lord
    turned the whole situation around. He took the spoils of warfare and used them
    to restore and refresh his people, maintaining his cause on earth.

    Are you getting the picture? Are you beginning to understand the reason for
    your present battle? Those who put their trust in the Lord are promised
    glorious victory over all power of the enemy. God wants you to know, “Yes,
    you’ll come through victorious. But I am going to make you more than an
    overcomer. I’m working out an even greater purpose in you for my kingdom.
    You’ll come out of this battle with more spoils than you can handle.”

    • Thank you for posting that Kitti! It just shows how anything is possible with G-D! I think that is incredible that He caused the syrians to “hear” an army that wasn’t even there….laughing…G-D indeed has a sense of humor!

  158. Mahmood;

    I like to hear testimonies and I mean real sincere testimonies of people living in foreign countries to hear what is really going on. Why do they come here to the United States? Freedom.

    If Islam gets a hold anymore that what “The Patriort Act” has done in the United States, that Freedom will be gone. Sharia law will be enforced. (I don’t believe that will happen. The Rapture will happen and this country will be destroyed)

    That’s why the video series “The Pagan Invasion” was created http://www.jeremiahfilms.com/products/Pagan-Invasion-Classic

    We have been bombarded by pagan ways for over 50 years. Islam is just another invasion.

    The United States has done evil and we will be judged for it, but it will all work out for God’s purposes and his glory. So heres a another testimony.

    • You notice how Suzy and Mahmoud did not respond to the above video…..the TRUTH pierces and scatters the lies….and their liars!

  159. The Jews were part of the Islamic community in the Madina where they used to with Muslims as a family, the Prophet gave them all the rights of citizenship enjoyed by any Muslim who did not fire them, and did not burn them, and did not confiscate their property and then all this was by the Prophet with a defense pact and a joint security pacts committed by Muslims to defend the Jews if they are exposed to any danger threatened, and therefore committed to the Jews to defend the Muslims if they are exposed to such risk than others.

    However, the Jews had secretly contacted the enemies of the Prophet and instigated the fight, but gave them material assistance in all its forms and manifestations.

    And surprised by the attitude here is very strange when we know that the Jews have reneged on their religion, which states monotheism, let the fight against polytheism and idolatry just like Islam, when asked about the religion of Mecca Musharko Mohammed, said that your religion is better than the religion of Muhammad!!!

    Here is a interview with a Jewish Rabbi.. I hope it makes sense to you:

    • Mahmoud

      I know this Jewish group. They are crazy. They do not know the bible, or history, and they betray their own people. They are ignorant of history, and they should read their own bible more.

      He says Muslims protected Jews in Europe. No they didn’t. Muslims from Palestine came and formed a special brigade to help Hitler kill the Jews, so they would not immigrate to Palestine, to escape the holocaust.

      • Why do you assume that he is one of the crazy Rabbis when he says we need to live in peace?
        Then what about the Jews who still live in Yemen, Iran, Morocco..etc and other islamic and arabic countries? they are living peacefully my friend with muslims and arabic christians.
        Back to Prophet Muhammad time where the Jews used to live in Madina, as I explained in my previous post that the Jews were the party which broke the pact and therefore they were fired from the Madina though the Prophet Muhammad could issue others by killing them but he did not.
        You are saying so as if Hitler needed the palestinians forces to kill the jews, this is funny because they had better protect themselves in their land rather than going to Germany and fight there :)

        • Mahmoud

          Just because someone lives in a certain country, does not mean life is pleasant there for them, or that they oppose Israel, and support the politics of the country’s government. Yes, the Jews can live there, if they stay quiet. I personally think the leader of Iran is crazy. The more western oriented the Muslim country, usually the more tolerant it is toward Jews and Christians.

          This rabbi, like others in his group, are cowards. They are so afraid they will be persecuted for the politics between Israel and the larger Muslim groups, that they are willing to go with the larger group, to be safe.

          They are willing to put all the other Jews in danger, so they can receive acceptance from Israel’s enemies. They want to be on the side they think is winning or will win.

          They do not care about right and wrong. They are saving their own necks, as we say in America.

          The bible predicted that the Jews would return to Israel in the last generation before the return of Jewish messiah. But these Jews do not believe this, even though the old testament scriptures support the predictions by Jesus.

          I was just reading Jeremiah, the prophet, and he speaks of this. So does Ezekiel and Isaiah. Yet these Jews will deny what the scriptures say. So, they are not as holy as they claim to be?

          The return of the Jews to the land of Israel is a requirement for the return of Jesus.

          It is Jesus that will stop the battle of Armageddon. And Armageddon will not happen unless the Jews are there.

          The bible says that both the Jews and the stranger (non_Jew) can live there in peace. It is not supposed to be a place of war, with exclusive rights to the land by one group.

          • Good Day Marianne,

            I am not talking about specific countries and specific group of people. The Rabbi’s feedback was general about the Muslims treatments to Jewish since Islam started.
            I think the attitude of the countries leaders do not reflect the general opinion of the citizens, similar to G. Bush, Obama, Sharon…etc
            You are trying to say that Muslims are such bad and aggressive people and you can not live with because they will rape you and kill your family! :) I have lots from throughout the world who say we do not really want to go back to our countries after experienced living in Middle East (among Muslims) and these peoples’ nationalities are American, British, European, Canadian… just name it! So whatever you are trying to reflect about us based on what you hear in the media is not globalized across everybody. Sometimes I watch CNN and BBC news when they bring news about “Middle East”, it makes me really laugh because nothing of what they say is true. Anyhow, I do not want to deviate the discussion.

            do you think that if this Rabbi said that we should kill Muslims and make them vanished from the world then he will be a true Jewish? When will you call him a brave Rabbi and not coward?! I could say that I can live with Jewish and Christians peacefully (as I am living with many christians peacefull) and this does not mean that I am coward Ms. Marianne!!

            I think before Israel was established we were living with them in peace and no issues, this is since Prophet Muhammad time, his neighbour was Jewish aslo!! and his attitude against them was based on respect. however they betrayed and broke the pacts. This does not surprise me as Jewish have been known as betrayers since ages.

            The muslims could hate the attitiude of the Israeli government basically and not the jewish themselves. When they see the bad way they are treating the palestinians then of course they would react negatively against them especially when they see that Israel does not even give a shit about about the rules, law, human rights, taking lands of palestianians till now in West Bank and abuse everything there. Then definitely every man/woman who has feeling and sense of life will condumn Israel crimes in Palestine.

            In Quran it is written that Jews will return to the land and I am writing it again down for you but that does not mean that the land all belongs to them. Palestinians have been there since Canaanites so Isreal does not have the right to ignore their existance and as you know Canaanites were the first nation to live in that part of the world.

            In the verses the first promice or prophecy was concluded when the king of Babel invaded the holy land and the second promice will be fulfilled soon.
            Between, one of the miricles of Guran is the calculation of numbers that indicates the meaning based on given time and if you calculate the numbers in the below verses in Arabic will show you that Israel would be established in 1948 and end in 2012. That I can send it to you but you need an arabic friend to confirm the calculation :)

            Surah Isra’a
            17:2
            And We gave Moses the Scripture and made it a guidance for the Children of Israel that you not take other than Me as Disposer of affairs,
            17:3
            O descendants of those We carried [in the ship] with Noah. Indeed, he was a grateful servant
            17:4
            And We conveyed to the Children of Israel in the Scripture that, “You will surely cause corruption on the earth twice, and you will surely reach [a degree of] great haughtiness.
            17:5
            So when the [time of] promise came for the first of them, We sent against you servants of Ours – those of great military might, and they probed [even] into the homes, and it was a promise fulfilled.
            17:6
            Then We gave back to you a return victory over them. And We reinforced you with wealth and sons and made you more numerous in manpower
            17:7
            [And said], “If you do good, you do good for yourselves; and if you do evil, [you do it] to yourselves.” Then when the final promise came, [We sent your enemies] to sadden your faces and to enter the temple in Jerusalem, as they entered it the first time, and to destroy what they had taken over with [total] destruction.

            • Sorry, this is a mistyping in the 2nd end of Israel year which is 2023 instead of 2012.

            • ok…I am not against all muslims. I am just aware of history and some current events that are not positive.

              The muslims had to deal with the crusaders.

              The jews had to deal with the holocaust.

              The christians are dealing with osama bin laden…and other threats to life in some countries.

              It will be interesting to see what happens in 2016-2017 and 2023.

              Maybe we should plan to meet for coffee and discuss it once the dates happen.

        • Actually all aspects of Jewish Diaspora should be studied and conveyed. Marianne is just pointing towards one small portion of Jewish history.

          This is why only a neutral acadamics person can do justice, the zealots of any religion are always biased in their view.

          Jews themselves vehemently confirm that Muslim spain was the golden era of the jewish diaspora cuz jews were treated worst than animals in rest of Europe. It was Christians of Europe which asked jews to stay out of city limits and that they could only come to town briefly for buying grocery for 2 hours in a week. Jews used to live in Ghettos in Christian Europe. For 1800 years Jews were persecuted by Christians until Jews found a way to integrate their end time events with that of Christians.

          It was jews who invented the banking system and thus ever since they control the Christian world.

          I am shocked that Marianne did not mentioned all this cuz for the sake of sincerity and honesty one must mention all portions of history and not just which is biased toward on group.

          Suzy.

          • Suzy

            The topic was Jew – Muslim relationships, not Christian – Jew relationships.

            I do not like the way the Christians treated the Jews either.

            But that is a different topic.

            • Marianne,

              If the topic was Jew-Muslim relationship then apart from quoting the massacre in Medina you should also quote that Muslim Spain was the GOlden era of Jewish Diaspora. How come you failed to mention such a significant part of jewish history of which they themselves are very proud and happy.

              REading history you will find that Jews in spain were persecuted by Christians and when Muslims armies came it was jew who showed the way. In return when Muslims conquered the land they allowed Jews to occupy high positions and offices.

              Suzy

              • Because I was talking about the bad points, not the good ones, which are rare.

                • And the rare show of muslim solidarity with Jews lasted 500 years in Spain. Just so to put the history on even keel.

                  Suzy.

                  • In spain, like elsewhere, non-muslims were treated as dhimmi, or second class citizens. They had to obey, or they would be beheaded, like the Christians were. I guess this was better than Europe, which is not saying anything wonderful for Spain.

                    Spain also deported all Jews at one point, showing the general disregard for them. There was never any solidarity of muslims with Jews. Jews were tolerated for a short time and taxed. most of history, muslims have sought to destroy the Jews.

                    • I have read history well and I know who did what and what happened. Muslims had influence in Spain from 8th to 11 Century thereafter the Christians started to increasing take back the land. The jews in spain who came under Christian influence were forced to convert, unlike Muslims who gave them independent rights over their own commnunity.

                      However one fact is so stiking that no one can miss it and that is “Where ever Jews went they expelled”. After they were expelled from Spain in 1492 they went to Portugal and they were expelled from there too.

                      Moreover Jews were treated far far far far worse by Christians than Muslims, I say it from history, personally I dont care.

                      But the question is what is that the jews do that they get expelled from everywhere they go, and they were expelled not just by Christians and Muslims, they were expelled by everybody. This tells me that something is fishy with jews!!!!

                      Suzy.

                  • I can imagine that there were good times between Muslims and Jews. BUt in 1948 5 Muslim nations attacked Israel and lost. This seemed to change everything, if it was good before, as you say. ( before Nazi times).

                    So how would you recommend restoring a good relationship?

  160. All,

    This is regarding the idea of saying that Jesus is God or Son of God.
    If Jesus was God (or son of God) as the christianity claims then how COME God accepts on him self to be delivered, like the rest of his creatures, from womb.
    Why would he stay in her womb 7,8 or 9 months and be dependent on her feeding him?!!
    Why would God put him self in the shoes of his creatures in such way! He (if he was really a God or son of God) then he would directly come on a shape that does not even look like human beings! OR not to be created/delivered in the process which is similar to the creation/delivery of his creatures, OR He would come to Mary directly instead of sending his angel as a proxy to make her pregnant.

    God does not need all that. It is all embaressing for him!

    Second, again if he was God then how would he accept on himself to be nailed and bleeding in front of his creatures where he could not EVEN have the power to release him self. And if he was son of God, then what a father who sees his son nailed infront of his creatures and they.

    God is more than what I mentioned and more than what your brains could imagine, God never accepts himself being nailed in front of his killers while they are happy and laughing at him being bleeding. That all does not make sense to me. God dignity does not allow him to be delivered from a place that bleeds every month (period) and pee several times daily.

    The way that Jesus was created was the “miracle” as God wanted to deliver message to everyone that this prophet is a human being just like you, he eats, sleeps, talks, walks, shits and pees (with no offenses, just like us)..etc.

    Jesus was only a prophet who had a mission to do and a message to deliver, just like the rest of the prophets.

    That is what logic says about God as he does not have to be impersonated in a body that he created.

    • Mahmoud,

      Either you are completely void of any intellectual ability and/or you have a spirit of Anti-Christ all over you which is indeed influencing your mind, spirit and soul! It is only out of the heart that the mouth speaks, and the blasphemous things that continue to come out of yours and suzy’s mouths only confirms to us, Christians, that you have the spirit of Anti-Christ.

      If you were wise, you would read the Holy Scriptures-NOT the quaran-starting with the book of Isaiah where G-D clearly states what is to come regarding HIS SON thousands of years BEFORE it happened-this is confirmed by the dating of the dead sea scrolls! G-D is the Alpha and the Omega and He has declared the End FROM the Beginning!

      Jesus has always existed from the beginning along with His Father….John 1:1 The Word Became Flesh

      1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men. 5The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it. (Mahmoud, you have the darkness which is preventing you from understanding…you will have to repent/turn away from this darkness, asking G-D to reveal His truth to you by way of His Holy Spirit!)

      ….9The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.b

      10He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13children born not of natural descent,c nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

      14The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

      Mary conceived Jesus within her womb through the power of the HOly Spirit! Think about this, G-D LOVED us so much that He sent us His ONLY SON-and through His Son, he was able to “walk in our shoes”. You have to understand that according to the Jewish culture, lamb sacrifices had to be made continously so as to cover the sins of the people…it was ongoing because the people kept sinning….the only way to stop these sacrifices was for G-D to sent the FINAL sacrifice-His SON-which is why he is referred to as the LAMB of G-D; Jesus was the FINAL blood sacrifice-the veil was torn in the temple representing that no longer did we have to go thru a Priest to talk to G-D…Jesus was now our HIGH PRIEST and we could now come to G-D freely THROUGH HIS SON.

      If you would read the Holy Bible, research the archaeological evidences, the culture of the Jews regarding sacrifices and why etc….then you will be able to intellectually understand why G-d did what He did….HOWEVER, if you would ask G-D to reveal Himself and his truth to you by his HOLY SPIRIT with a PURE and HUMBLE HEART, the you will be able to understand the things of G-D spiritually as he sees fit.

      John 3:16 For G-D so loved the world that He GAVE HIS ONLY SON that whosoever should believe in HIM should NEVER perish but have everlasting LIFE.

      Choose Life and NOT DEATH! Get out from under this darkness that has overtaken you in Jesus Name!

    • Mahmoud

      1. If Jesus is god or the son of god is a big issue. I have some posts on this. I will have to email you separately on this.

      2. The purpose of the incarnation was to allow the son of God to communicate directly, in a visible way, with his creation.

      3. Jesus voluntarily gave up his life to pay for the sins of all of us. He had the power to come down from the cross. But he knew if he did, the penalty would not be paid.

      4. The humiliation was part of the punishment we should have for our sins. Jesus took that also for us.

    • G-d created everything, including the womb…and G-d said that all that he had created was good…see below

      http://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/human-gestation-and-the-feasts-of-the-lord/

  161. There is something even more bizzare with Christians. If you go to a Church you will see that they Portray Jesus as a man with a Beard yet nobody wants to wear a beard.

    I guess Beard is either for God or for terrorists!!!!

    Suzy.

  162. For me I could see that what Quran says about Jesus is closer to the logic rather than saying he is a G-d (or son of G-d). Ops!! I missed the “o” in God :)

    Below are the verses of the chapter of Mary (19) in Quran and the story related here makes sense:

    19:16
    And mention in the Book [the story of] Mary, when she withdrew from her family to a place toward the east
    19:17
    And she took, in seclusion from them, a screen. Then We sent to her Our Angel, and he represented himself to her as a well-proportioned man
    19:18
    She said, “Indeed, I seek refuge in the Most Merciful from you, [so leave me], if you should be fearing of Allah .”
    19:19
    He said, “I am only the messenger of your Lord to give you [news of] a pure boy.”
    19:20
    She said, “How can I have a boy while no man has touched me and I have not been unchaste?”
    19:21
    He said, “Thus [it will be]; your Lord says, ‘It is easy for Me, and We will make him a sign to the people and a mercy from Us. And it is a matter [already] decreed.’ ”
    19:22
    So she conceived him, and she withdrew with him to a remote place.
    19:23
    And the pains of childbirth drove her to the trunk of a palm tree. She said, “Oh, I wish I had died before this and was in oblivion, forgotten.”
    19:24
    But he called her from below her, “Do not grieve; your Lord has provided beneath you a stream.
    19:25
    And shake toward you the trunk of the palm tree; it will drop upon you ripe, fresh dates.
    19:26
    So eat and drink and be contented. And if you see from among humanity anyone, say, ‘Indeed, I have vowed to the Most Merciful abstention, so I will not speak today to [any] man.’ ”
    19:27
    Then she brought him to her people, carrying him. They said, “O Mary, you have certainly done a thing unprecedented.
    19:28
    O sister of Aaron, your father was not a man of evil, nor was your mother unchaste.”
    19:29
    So she pointed to him. They said, “How can we speak to one who is in the cradle a child?”
    19:30
    [Jesus] said, “Indeed, I am the servant of Allah . He has given me the Scripture and made me a prophet.
    19:31
    And He has made me blessed wherever I am and has enjoined upon me prayer and zakah as long as I remain alive
    19:32
    And [made me] dutiful to my mother, and He has not made me a wretched tyrant.
    19:33
    And peace is on me the day I was born and the day I will die and the day I am raised alive.”
    19:34
    That is Jesus, the son of Mary – the word of truth about which they are in dispute.
    19:35
    It is not [befitting] for Allah to take a son; exalted is He! When He decrees an affair, He only says to it, “Be,” and it is.

  163. Suzy and Mahmoud;
    This is a spiritual battle going on between the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob and Lucifer known as Satan. You think humans and geo-politics is going to solve the problem. It won’t. It’s all mapped out from Genesis to Revelation. Sin entered the world, it corrupted man, and a plan was formed to fix it by Jesus dying on the cross for us and being resurrected. He’s coming back again. Catholicism, Judaism and Islam all want to establish their rule over this earth. Jesus is the only one that’s going to rule. I would really encourage you to watch videos on each of these posts. I can’t write, so I post videos. Our God is a God of history. He’s in control. He loves you. We’re coming to the end of this age. Judgement is coming and if you don’t know Jesus you are doomed. If you think man is going to fix everything you are really deceived.

    As far as the Jewish community goes, they are across the board. If you want to learn about deception here’s a good web site to read:

    http://watch.pair.com/default.html

    • Kitti,

      Thanks for your posts.
      I recommend that you watch this one:

      • It is clearly mentioning that Jesus is not God!!

        • I rebuke you Satan in Jesus Name!

          • Excuse me?!

            • Mahmoud,

              I am not rebuking you, but the spirit who is causing you to say such horrible things about my Lord and Saviour. It is only by the Holy Spirit that one is even able to acknowledge that Jesus is G-D, so for anyone to deny this fact is against Christ-therefore Anti-Christ, thus the reason for me rebuking…Further, I have never been around such hatred and outright blasphemous comments towards my G-D and My Saviour! You don’t see me on a Muslim blogsite insulting Allah do you? If you are sincere in your search for who G-D truly is and who His Son truly is then this is great, but may I ask that you exercise courtesy and respect towards those whom you are asking and to those who are also on this blogsite.

  164. I don’t want our Catholic bloggers to get mad because I didn’t mention the Evangelicals or Protestants. There are groups in these denominations that want to establish God’s Kingdom. There’s watch groups that monitor them.

    http://watch.pair.com/synarchy-8.html

    http://watch.pair.com/synarchy-9.html

  165. What does the word of God, the Bible say:

    Matthew 16:15-15

    He said to them “but who do you say that I am?
    And Simon Peter answered and said, “Thou art the Christ, the Son of the Living God”

    John 10:30
    “I and the Father are one”.

    I posted this over on:

    http://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/is-the-trinity-equal/

    http://www.ariel.org/news/metzger-dmu.htm

    Metzger: The difference between this book and all the others written on the Trinity is that everyone starts from the New Testament, but Jewish people do not believe in the New Testament. So I decided to prove the plurality of God, or the tri-unity of God, from the Hebrew Scriptures (the Old Testament). If Jesus is God, then it must be clearly presented by the Hebrew Scriptures so that other believers can present the tri-unity of God and the deity of Messiah to Jewish people. Many Jewish people will recognize the Tanakh as their Scripture (Tanakh is the Jewish term for the Old Testament).

    Catholics and Born again Evangelical Believers in Jesus don’t believe the same. Go over and watch and read:

    http://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/lucia-reveals-the-3rd-secret-of-fatima/

    Messianic Jews (believers in Yeshua) don’t believe the same way the rest of the Jewish community does.

    This is a year long study. Believe me. I’m still separating the groups. It’s deception by the Devil. He wants to divide and conquer. He’s good at it.

  166. So its all about establishing Kingdom of God on Earth. Is God so weak that he has to enlist help from humans to establish his Kingdom on earth??? Is God so weak that Lucifer can be a threat to him.

    It seems to me that superman is more powerful than God.

    I am now sure that people have not understood what God is! Even an agnostic will tell you that God is someone that is All Powerful and unique. Now its a different matter if he exists in the domain of reality or just in Novels. In which ever domain he exists his powers are well beyond our comprehensions.

    No power can withstand God’s power for even 1 Billionth of a second. Talk of Battle going on b/w Lucifer and God. I would not want a God who is unable to handle Lucifer and for whom Lucifer ever became a threat, even for a billionth of a second.

    GOd wont be a GOd if Lucifer was a problem for him.

    Come on guys even those fictional novels for kids have more understanding of God then these zealots. I guess they did not read those novels as kids!

    I sincerely hope that these people would open their mind and move away from narrow tunnel vision, then they will be able to see more and will come closer to humanity at large. I recommend them liberal history courses and logic courses as a starter.

    Suzy.

    • Mark 12:24Jesus replied, “Are you not in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God?

      This was Jesus’ answer to those who asked stupid questions such as yours….

      G-D is the ALPHA and the OMEGA-the beginning AND the End…Isaiah 54:14

      16“See, it is I who created the blacksmith

      who fans the coals into flame

      and forges a weapon fit for its work.

      And it is I who have created the destroyer to work havoc;

      17no weapon forged against you will prevail,

      and you will refute every tongue that accuses you.

      This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord,

      and this is their vindication from me,”

      declares the Lord.

      G-D created Lucifer…he was created as the most beautiful Angel and due to pride and wanting to take over G-D’s position he was cast out along with a third of the angels. Surely you know this….no?

      And surely you understand that G-D does NOT FEAR anyone, for even He says, “perfect love casts out all fear”…He is the creator of everything. The very breath you breathe is ONLY because He chooses for you to do so. For you to make these comments knowing the truth and choosing to mock the truth makes you a fool!

      Proverbs 12:23
      A prudent man keeps his knowledge to himself,

      but the heart of fools blurts out folly.

  167. Hey guys,

    Lets not respond to Suzy or Mahmoud any longer and perhaps they will move on if not engaged. As you can see, Suzy and Mahmoud have been deceptive and are continously slandering our Lord and Saviour through their lies, stupid questions, insults, sexual inuendos, and posting of the quaran……they aren’t interested in the truth-they are only interested in distracting the truth!

    • And what does your God say about Patience and Perseverance????

      I guess Jesus should have run away from Judah on day one.

      Suzy.

      • Jesus did not tolerate evil. He handled the devil face to face for a total of 3 encounters and on the 3rd ordered him to leave. Evil is Evil and should not be given a platform or any level of tolerance, for it will only increase.

  168. Jewishness and the Trinity by Arnold G. Fruchtenbaum

    July 1, 1981

    This is an archived article. It originally appeared on July 1, 1981. Some information may be outdated.
    In a recent question-and-answer article, Rabbi Stanley Greenberg of Temple Sinai in Philadelphia wrote:

    “Christians are, of course, entitled to believe in a trinitarian conception of God, but their effort to base this conception on the Hebrew Bible must fly in the face of the overwhelming testimony of that Bible. Hebrew Scriptures are clear and unequivocal on the oneness of God . . . The Hebrew Bible affirms the one God with unmistakable clarity. Monotheism, an uncompromising belief in one God, is the hallmark of the Hebrew Bible, the unwavering affirmation of Judaism and the unshakable faith of the Jew.”

    Whether Christians are accused of being polytheists or tritheists or whether it is admitted that the Christian concept of the Tri-unity is a form of monotheism, one element always appears: one cannot believe in the Trinity and be Jewish. Even if what Christians believe is monotheistic, it still does not seem to be monotheistic enough to qualify as true Jewishness. Rabbi Greenberg’s article tends to reflect that thinking.

    He went on to say, “…under no circumstances can a concept of a plurality of the Godhead or a trinity of the Godhead ever be based upon the Hebrew Bible.” It is perhaps best then to begin with the very source of Jewish theology and the only means of testing it: the Hebrew Scriptures. Since so much relies on Hebrew language usage, then to the Hebrew we should turn.
    1. God Is A Plurality

    The Name Elohim

    It is generally agreed that Elohim is a plural noun having the masculine plural ending “im.” The very word Elohim used of the true God in Genesis 1:1, “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth,” is also used in Exodus 20:3, “You shall have no other gods (Elohim) before Me,” and in Deuteronomy 13:2, “…Iet us go after other gods (Elohim)…” While the use of the plural Elohim does not prove a Tri-unity, it certainly opens the door to a doctrine of plurality in the Godhead since it is the word that is used of the one true God as well as for the many false gods.
    Plural Verbs used with Elohim

    Virtually all Hebrew scholars do recognize that the word Elohim, as it stands by itself, is a plural noun. Nevertheless, they wish to deny that it allows for any plurality in the Godhead whatsoever. Their line of reasoning usually goes like this: When “Elohim” is used of the true God, it is followed by a singular verb; when it is used of false gods, it is followed by the plural verb. Rabbi Greenberg states it as follows:

    “But, in fact, the verb used in the opening verse of Genesis is ‘bara’ which means ‘he created’—singular. One need not be too profound a student of Hebrew to understand that the opening verse of Genesis clearly speaks of a singular God.”

    The point made, of course, is generally true because the Bible does teach that God is only one God and, therefore, the general pattern is to have the plural noun followed by the singular verb when it speaks of the one true God. However, there are places where the word is used of the true God and yet it is followed by a plural verb:

    Genesis 20:13: “And it came to pass, when God (Elohim) caused me to wander [literally: They caused me to wander] from my father’s house…
    Genesis 35:7: “…because there God (Elohim) appeared unto him…” [Literally: They appeared unto him.]

    2 Samuel 7:23: “…God (Elohim) went…” [Literally: They went.]

    Psalm 58:12: “Surely He is God (Elohim) who judges…[Literally: They judge.]

    The Name Eloah

    If the plural form Elohim was the only form available for a reference to God, then conceivably the argument might be made that the writers of the Hebrew Scriptures had no other alternative but to use the word Elohim for both the one true God and the many false gods. However, the singular form for Elohim (Eloah) exists and is used in such passages as Deuteronomy 32:15-17 and Habakkuk 3:3. This singular form could have easily been used consistently. Yet it is only used 250 times, while the plural form is used 2,500 times. The far greater use of the plural form again turns the argument in favor of plurality in the Godhead rather than against it.

    Plural Pronouns

    Another case in point regarding Hebrew grammar is that often when God speaks of himself, he clearly uses the plural pronoun:

    Genesis 1:26: Then God (Elohim) said,”Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness.…”
    He could hardly have made reference to angels since man was created in the image of God and not of angels. The Midrash Rabbah on Genesis recognizes the strength of this passage end comments as follows:

    “Rabbi Samuel Bar Hanman in the name of Rabbi Jonathan said, that at the time when Moses wrote the Torah, writing a portion of it daily, when he came to this verse which says, “And Elohim said, let us make man in our image after our likeness,” Moses said, “Master of the universe, why do you give herewith an excuse to the sectarians (who believe in the Tri-unity of God).” God answered Moses, “You write and whoever wants to err, let him err.”1
    It is obvious that the Midrash Rabbah is trying to simply get around the problem and fails to answer adequately why God refers to Himself in the plural.

    The use of the plural pronoun can also be seen in:

    Genesis 3:22: Then the LORD God (YHVH Elohim) said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us…”
    Genesis 11:7: “Come, let Us go down, and there confuse their language…”

    Isaiah 6:8: Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, “Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us?”

    This last passage would appear contradictory with the singular “I” and the plural “us” except as viewed as a plurality (us) in a unity (I).

    Plural Descriptions of God

    One point that also comes out of Hebrew is the fact that often nouns and adjectives used in speaking of God are plural. Some examples are as follows:

    Ecclesiastes 12:1: “Remember now you creator…” [Literally: creators.]

    Psalm 149:2: “Let Israel rejoice in their Maker.” [Literally: makers.]

    Joshua 24:19: “…holy God…” [Literally: holy Gods.]

    Isaiah 54:5: “For your Maker is your husband…” [Literally: makers, husbands.]

    Everything we have said so far rests firmly on the Hebrew language of the Scriptures. If we are to base our theology on the Scriptures alone, we have to say that on the one hand they affirm God’s unity, while at the same time they tend towards the concept of a compound unity allowing for a plurality in the Godhead.

    The Shema

    Deuteronomy 6:4: Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one!
    Deuteronomy 6:4, known as the Shema, has always been Israel’s great confession. It is this verse more than any other that is used to affirm the fact that God is one and is often used to contradict the concept of plurality in the Godhead. But is it a valid use of this verse?

    On one hand, it should be noted that the very words “our God” are in the plural in the Hebrew text and literally mean “our Gods.” However, the main argument lies in the word “one,” which is a Hebrew word, echad. A glance through the Hebrew text where the word is used elsewhere can quickly show that the word echad does not mean an absolute “one” but a compound “one.” For instance, in Genesis 1:5, the combination of evening and morning comprise one (echad) day. In Genesis 2:24, a man and a woman come together in marriage and the two “shall become one (echad) flesh.” In Ezra 2:64, we are told that the whole assembly was as one (echad), though of course, it was composed of numerous people. Ezekiel 37:17 provides a rather striking example where two sticks are combined to become one (echad). The use of the word echad in Scripture shows it to be a compound and not an absolute unity.

    There is a Hebrew word that does mean an absolute unity and that is yachid, which is found in many Scripture passages,2 the emphasis being on the meaning of “only.” If Moses intended to teach God’s absolute oneness as over against a compound unity, this would have been a far more appropriate word. In fact, Maimonides noted the strength of “yachid” and chose to use that word in his “Thirteen Articles of Faith” in place of echad. However, Deuteronomy 6:4 (the Shema) does not use “yachid” in reference to God.

    II. God Is At Least Two

    Elohim and YHVH Applied to Two Personalities

    As if to even make the case for plurality stronger, there are situations in the Hebrew Scriptures where the term Elohim is applied to two personalities in the same verse. One example is Psalm 45:7-8:

    “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
    A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
    You love righteousness and hate wickedness;
    Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
    With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
    It should be noted that the first Elohim is being addressed and the second Elohim is the God of the first Elohim. And so God’s God has anointed Him with the oil of gladness.

    A second example is Hosea 1:7:

    “Yet I will have mercy on the house of Judah, will save them by the LORD their God, and will not save them by bow, nor by sword or battle, by horses or horsemen.”
    The speaker is Elohim who says He will have mercy on the house of Judah and will save them by the instrumentality of YHVH, their Elohim. So Elohim number one will save Israel by means of Elohim number two.

    Not only is Elohim applied to two personalities in the same verse, but so is the very name of God. One example is Genesis 19:24 which reads:

    “Then the LORD rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from the LORD out of the heavens.”
    Clearly we have YHVH number one raining fire and brimstone from a second YHVH who is in heaven, the first one being on earth.

    A second example is Zechariah 2:8-9:

    For thus says the LORD of Hosts: “He sent Me after glory, to the nations which plunder you; for he that touches you touches the apple of His eye. For surely I will shake My hand against them, and they shall become spoil for their servants. Then you will know that the LORD of hosts has sent Me.”
    Again, we have one YHVH sending another YHVH to perform a specific task.

    The author of the Zohar sensed plurality in the Tetragrammaton3 and wrote:

    “Come and see the mystery of the word YHVH: there are three steps, each existing by itself: nevertheless they are One, and so united that one cannot be separated from the other. The Ancient Holy One is revealed with three heads, which are united into one, and that head is three exalted. The Ancient One is described as being three: because the other lights emanating from him are included in the three. But how can three names be one? Are they really one because we call them one? How three can be one can only be known through the revelation of the Holy Spirit.”4

    III. God Is Three

    How Many Persons Are There?

    If the Hebrew Scriptures truly do point to plurality, the question arises, how many personalities in the Godhead exist? We have already seen the names of God applied to at least two different personalities. Going through the Hebrew Scriptures, we find that, in fact, three and only three distinct personalities are ever considered divine.

    1. First, there are the numerous times when there is a reference to the Lord YHVH. This usage is so frequent that there is no need to devote space to it.

    2. A second personality is referred to as the Angel of YHVH. This individual is always considered distinct from all other angels and is unique. In almost every passage where He is found He is referred to as both the Angel of YHVH and YHVH Himself. For instance, in Genesis 16:7 He is referred to as the Angel of YHVH, but then in 16:13 as YHVH Himself. In Genesis 22:11 He is the Angel of YHVH, but God Himself in 22:12. Other examples could be given.5 A very interesting passage is Exodus 23:20-23 where this angel has the power to pardon sin because God’s own name YHVH is in him, and, therefore, he is to be obeyed without question. This can hardly be said of any ordinary angel. But the very fact that God’s own name is in this angel shows His divine status.

    3. A third major personality that comes through is the Spirit of God, often referred to as simply the Ruach Ha-kodesh. There are a good number of references to the Spirit of God among which are Genesis 1:2, 6:3; Job 33:4; Psalm 51:11; Psalm 139:7; Isaiah 11:2, etc. The Holy Spirit cannot be a mere emanation because He contains all the characteristics of personality (intellect, emotion and will) and is considered divine.

    So then, from various sections of the Hebrew Scriptures there is a clear showing that three personalities are referred to as divine and as being God: the Lord YHVH, the Angel of YHVH and the Spirit of God.

    The Three Personalities in the Same Passage

    Nor have the Hebrew Scriptures neglected to put all three personalities of the Godhead together in one passage. Two examples are Isaiah 48:12-16 and 63:7-14.

    Because of the significance of the first passage, it will be quoted:

    “Listen to Me, O Jacob, and Israel, My called: I am He, I am the First, I am also the Last. Indeed My hand also has laid the foundation of the earth, and My right hand has stretched out the heavens; when I call to them, they stand up together. All of you, assemble yourselves, and hear! Who among them has declared these things? The LORD has loved him; he shall do His pleasure on Babylon, and His arm shall be against the Chaldeans. I, even I, have spoken; yes, I have called him, I have brought him, and his way will prosper. Come near to Me, hear this: I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, I was there. And now the Lord GOD and His Spirit have sent me.”
    It should be noted that the speaker refers to himself as the one who is responsible for the creation of the heavens and the earth. It is clear that he cannot be speaking of anyone other than God. But then in verse 16, the speaker refers to himself using the pronouns of I and me and then distinguishes himself from two other personalities. He distinguishes himself from the Lord YHVH and then from the Spirit of God. Here is the Tri-unity as clearly defined as the Hebrew Scriptures make it.

    In the second passage, there is a reflection back to the time of the Exodus where all three personalities were present and active. The Lord YHVH is referred to in verse 7, the Angel of YHVH in verse 9 and the Spirit of God in verses 10, 11 and 14. While often throughout the Hebrew Scriptures God refers to Himself as being the one solely responsible for Israel’s redemption from Egypt, in this passage three personalities are given credit for it. Yet, no contradiction is seen since all three comprise the unity of the one Godhead.

    Conclusion

    The teaching of the Hebrew Scriptures, then, is that there is a plurality of the Godhead. The first person is consistently called YHVH while the second person is given the names of YHVH, the Angel of YHVH and the Servant of YHVH. Consistently and without fail, the second person is sent by the first person. The third person is referred to as the Spirit of YHVH or the Spirit of God or the Holy Spirit. He, too, is sent by the first person but is continually related to the ministry of the second person.

    If the concept of the Tri-unity in the Godhead is not Jewish according to modern rabbis, then neither are the Hebrew Scriptures. Jewish Christians cannot be accused of having slipped into paganism when they hold to the fact that Jesus is the divine Son of God. He is the same one of whom Moses wrote when he said:

    “Behold, I send an Angel before you, to keep you in the way, and to bring you into the place which I have prepared. Beware of Him and obey His voice; do not provoke Him, for He will not pardon your transgressions; for My name is in Him. But if you indeed obey His voice and do all that I speak, then I will be an enemy to your enemies and an adversary to your adversaries. For My Angel will go before you and bring you in to the Amorites and the Hittites and the Perizzites and the Canaanites and the Hivites and the Jebusites; and I will cut them off.”
    —Exodus 23:20-23
    New Testament Light

    In keeping with the teachings of the Hebrew Scriptures, the New Testament clearly recognizes that there are three persons in the Godhead, although it becomes quite a bit more specific. The first person is called the Father while the second person is called the Son. The New Testament answers the question of Proverbs 30:4: “…What is His name, and what is his Son’s name, if you know?” His son’s name is Y’shua (Jesus). In accordance with the Hebrew Scriptures, he is sent by God to be the Messiah, but this time as a man instead of as an angel. Furthermore, He is sent for a specific purpose: to die for our sins. In essence, what happened is that God became a man (not that man became God) in order to accomplish the work of atonement.

    The New Testament calls the third person of the Godhead the Holy Spirit. Throughout the New Testament he is related to the work of the second person, in keeping with the teaching of the Hebrew Scriptures. We see, then, that there is a continuous body of teaching in both the Old and New Testaments relating to the Tri-unity of God.

    Footnotes

    1Midrash Rabbah on Genesis 1:26, New York: NOP Press, N.D.
    2Genesis 22:2,12; Judges 11:34; Psalm 22:21; 25:16; Proverbs 4:3; Jeremiah 6:26; Amos 8:10; Zechariah 12:10
    3″Personal Name of God of Israel,” written in Hebrew Bible with the four consonants YHWH. Pronunciation of name has been avoided since at least 3rd c. B.C.E.; initial substitute was “Adonai” (“the Lord”), itself later replaced by “ha-Shem” (“the Name”). The name Jehovah is a hybrid misreading of the original Hebrew letters with the vowels of “Adonai.”—Encyclopedic Dictionary of Judaica, p. 593
    4Zohar, vol. III, 288, vol. II, 43, Hebrew editions. See also Soncino Press edition, vol. III, 134.
    5In Genesis 31 he is the Angel of God in verse 11, but then he is the God of Bethel in verse 13. In Exodus 3 he is the Angel of YHVH in verse 2 and he is both YHVH and God in verse 4. In Judges 6 he is the Angel of YHVH in verses 11, 12, 20, and 21 but is YHVH himself in verses 14, 16, 22 and 23. Then in Judges 13:3 and 21 he is the Angel of YHVH but is referred to as God himself in verse 22.

  169. Suzy;
    Man wants to Establish God’s Kingdom on earth.
    That’s the difference between Religion and relationship. Man is always trying to earn his way to heaven, which he can’t do. Eternal life is a free gift, not a result of works that no man can boast. God doesn’t need our help but he loves us so much he extends his hand. That’s why Prayer is so important. It’s working in partnership. God is the initiator.

    Born again Christians are waiting for the New Jerusalem that will come down from heaven after the millennium. We’re going to get new bodies too that are not corruptible. Sounds like a good deal to me. Read the book of Revelation. There’s a blessing for anyone who does.

  170. lyndsey,

    Why are you so offended? I am sorry if you felt my words were harsh but seriously I have discussed the same with my christian friends but did not get an asnwer.
    Marianne said: in the Jews culture there was a habit which is sacrificing a sheep in order for God to clear their sin! wait a moment, did you say in their culture?! It was not it relevant to religion then! Why would God get engaged with X habit created from Y culture and sacrificing his Son for Z people sins? Did he lose control over his creatures and had no other chance to forgive them except sending his son as a sheep?

    The other point is that: Why would God send his son in the shoes of sheep in order to clear the sins of his creatures?!! Is not God the creator of everything and can easily forgive all the sins of his creatures in a single moment?
    Please consider my self as a person who needs to prove something, I am not trying to offend any of you here. And please avoid posting sentences and verses from the Bible and try to convince me in person-to-person way.

    Thanks,

    • Mahmoud

      I did not say sacrificing sheep was part of Jewish culture. Where did you see that.?

      It was not their culture, it was something God told them to do. They were not sacrificing sheep before God told them to. They were slaves in Egypt, building a pyramid.

      God has not lost control of himself, but man always has.

      Why do you question God about his decisions?

      God can easily forgive, but there are consequences to sin. Just because you say you are sorry, does not cancel what you have done.

      If I steal money from you, being sorry is not enough. I have to give the money back. And how about murder, how do you correct that sin? Suppose I tell lies about you and ruin your life. Is saying I am sorry good enough?

      All sin carries a punishment. Forgiveness restores the relationship with God, but it does not cancel the justice required for your sins.

      Forgiveness is not cheap. It comes with a price.

      The animal sacrifices were not good enough, because they were sinners offering imperfect sacrifices. And the blood of sheep cannot perfectly atone for serious sins.

      The real penalty for sin is death, not an animal. The animal was just an imperfect substitute for ourselves being put to death. As you know, the death penalty is still alive in Islam.

      Only a perfect sacrifice which was holy and pure could be acceptable for God. But a sheep is not holy. Neither is a man or woman.

      But Jesus was holy and pure.

      Jesus volunteered to take this punishment for us. We do not have to die or go to hell to be punished.

      This way, when we are sorry, Jesus has taken our punishment for us, and we are forgiven.

      Forgiveness only comes when divine justice is satisfied, and the penalty has been paid.

      • Marianne,

        Sorry, it was lyndsey who said so but I was confused :)

        Well, you mentioned such an amazing sentence here:
        <>

        Then, what about the Jews stealing the lands of Palestinians? How about murdering them? How will they correct that sin? are they slaughtering sheeps every time they do so?

        In my opinion I am not still able to get the point of Jesus sacrificing himself (and he is also a God) though you explained above but still that does not make sense!
        So, Are all the Christians forgiven now because Jesus volunteered himself? Why did not God send a sacred sheep from the sky? why is it necessarily his son?
        Probably because you are Christian you see this topic from certain angles and you can not accept anything else as this is what Bible has told you. Have not you though that the Bible could have been altered across the ages? Does the Bible have proof that it is really the same Bible since Jesus time?
        Again, I am not trying to offend anyone and trying to link things together and justify why as this could be the aim of any forum.

        Have a good day.

      • Marianne,
        Sorry, it was lyndsey who said so but I was confused
        Well, you mentioned such an amazing sentence here:

        /
        If I steal money from you, being sorry is not enough. I have to give the money back. And how about murder, how do you correct that sin? Suppose I tell lies about you and ruin your life. Is saying I am sorry good enough?
        /

        Then, what about the Jews stealing the lands of Palestinians? How about murdering them? How will they correct that sin? are they slaughtering sheeps every time they do so?
        In my opinion I am not still able to get the point of Jesus sacrificing himself (and he is also a God) though you explained above but still that does not make sense!
        So, Are all the Christians forgiven now because Jesus volunteered himself? Why did not God send a sacred sheep from the sky? why is it necessarily his son?
        Probably because you are Christian you see this topic from certain angles and you can not accept anything else as this is what Bible has told you. Have not you though that the Bible could have been altered across the ages? Does the Bible have proof that it is really the same Bible since Jesus time?
        Again, I am not trying to offend anyone and trying to link things together and justify why as this could be the aim of any forum.
        Have a good day.

        • Mahmoud,

          I will explain Christianity in simple terms. I learned it from the book called “Christianity for Dummies”:

          Actually without crucifixion there is no justification of a separate religion called Christianity. So Crucifixion is a must but then to justify crucixion they have to give reason and the reason is washing of sins of everybody. This is grand scale pardon of sin.

          Without crucifixion Christianity reduces to Judaism meaning Christianity becomes null and void.

          But then comes another problem why would anybody believe that such a death would wash away sin??? So to give a good justification there was no way but to give divinty to Jesus.

          Once divinity was given then came another problem that if he was divine then why cant he rise from dead, so to cover this resurrection concept came into existence.

          So in a way A lead to B, B lead to C and C lead to D.

          Now it is up to you to find out if it was created by men or this actually happened by God’s will.

          Suzy.

          • Suzy,
            I think I got it clear now.
            It means if I keep asking till the end of life we probably will end up inventing new alphabetic system to make the new letters relevant to A,B,C…,Z, &A,&B&&C..

          • suzy

            You demonstrate no understanding of Christianity, even when I explain it to you.

            Your reasoning is poor, so it helps if you make an effort to understand.

            You do not have to accept it, but you also should not mock it.

            Jesus rose from the dead, and he is divine in nature. What does divine mean? It means of heavenly origin.

            Jesus was in heaven before he ever came to earth. He volunteered to pay for our sins, which a holy God demanded payment for. You cannot receive forgiveness unless the penalty for your sins is paid. Jesus paid that price with his life.

            True Christianity is Judaism, in complete form.

        • Mahnoud,

          1. Self defense is not a sin.

          The Palestinians have been attacking the Israelis with rockets and killing them with suicide ( genocide) bombers.

          You would not want Palestinians for neighbors. That is why they were rejected from Egypt and Syria and Jordan.

          Hamas orders the death of its citizens, and has no concern for life at all.

          Israel targets Hamas, and gives warnings to get out of the way before they attack, so civilians can leave.

          2. Yes, Jesus are forgiven now because Jesus sacrificed himself.

          True, it is hard to imagine Jesus he would do this, or why God would allow it. But this is love and mercy at its divine level. WE try to understand God’s mind with our own human mind, and nothing makes sense. But it does to God.

          It was also in God’s mind, because he is so holy, and so offended by even the smallest sin, that you and I and everyone else should have been on that cross, not Jesus.

          A sheep is really not good enough. It was only for one sin. Each man was guilty of sins ever day.

          But Jesus knew we could not tolerate what he went through for us. The cross was a good example of the punishment that awaited us.

          Only he had enough love and mercy to allow himself to go through that.

          God responds to acts of love and mercy. Recall the ancient ark of the covenant had a “mercy seat” on top of it, where the sacrificed blood was poured. The ancient priests would come in and ask for mercy for sins, so that the punishment would not be so bad.

          The Father God knew Jesus and his heart. Only Jesus had a pure and merciful heart. All others were tainted with sin. He accepted what Jesus offered to do. Jesus was full of love and mercy.

          Unlike the sheep, which was not good enough for serious sins (which got punished by death, and were not forgiven), and was only for one sin, Jesus death is perfect, and covers ALL sins, forever. His death also covers the serious sins.

          3. The bible is still the same, for the content you see. I know there is some discussion about some missing books, but what is there is true. Each book confirms other books, and the bible contains hundreds, maybe thousands, of prophecies which have come true. If the bible had been altered, then this would not happen.

          I know some people claim it has been altered, but that is because they either do not believe the bible anyhow, or it opposes something they believe. This is just their opinion. But this is not justification for claiming the bible has been altered.

        • Regarding Jesus’ sacrifice, it is my understanding, as explained to me since a child, is this:

          The Jewish people had to make blood sacrifices to G-D within a place called the Holy of Holies. Only the High Priest was allowed to go inside the Holy of Holies in the presence of G-D which was hidden behind a Veil. These sacrifices took place every so often (not sure of the number of years) so as to cleanse the people of their sins that were committed that past year etc..the sacrifice had to be an animal-usually a lamb- that had no flaws or blemish.

          So the reason for Jesus’ sacrifice was that He was to be the FINAL lamb sacrifice (he was referred to as the lamb of G-D-no flaws and no blemish).G-D sent His own LAMB (His son)per se to take the place of all the other lambs (there wasn’t enough lambs to cover all the sins, so G-D sent His son to be the final Lamb sacrifice).

          SO, when Jesus gave up his last breath, there was an earthquake which shook the Holy of Holies and tore the veil in half. This was G-D’s way of communicating to His people that the FINAL sacrifice had taken place and was ACCEPTED and that there was no more need to offer any more sacrifices. Jesus is now our high priest who is able to go before the Father/G-D at any time on our behalf-this is why Jesus says “no one goes to the Father except through me.” Jesus could not be this intercessor/High priest if he had not risen from the dead. If he had not risen from the dead then all would have been in vain. Jesus is alive and well and will return to fulfill the rest of the prophecies. Jesus’ death and resurrection fulfilled 4 out of the 7 Jewish Feast Days….the remaining 3 Jewish Feast Days will be fulfilled by Jesus return.

      • Did it not become a part of their culture as a result of G-D telling them to sacrifice them?

    • see my comment below which explains the Holy of Holies and Jesus’s sacrifice.

      Also, to answer your question regarding why G-d would send his son Jesus to die for us, all I can say is that G-D made the choices He made because He LOVES us. I think the depth of this Love is not grasped by alot of people including me. I remember when the movie “the passion” came out that Mel Gibson directed, my family did not want to go and see it. So I went alone and watched it. When I came home they were eager to know what I thought about it and the only words that I could find to describe it was “love”. I was truly moved and could only say that all I could see was LOVE. Jesus was part human, remember that, and so He took the lashings, and the abuse and the piercing and the nails and all the PAIN that goes with that upon himself so as to save us from ourselves! The only verse from the scriptures that comes to mind is “12My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.” John 15 NIV

      • lyndsey,
        I watched the movie as well and I felt so sorry to see God being punished, abused, and feeling pain of the lashes.. All that made me think that NO WAY to see God in that form.
        I think both of us believe on one creator of this universe which is God and day by day science is discovering things beyond the imagination, our planet is a small piece of dust in the galaxy which is one of millions of galaxies…etc and God knows how big his universe is. So no logic, science, sense, feeling, conciseness..etc say that God could make a son for himself and to walk on Earth and “to be punished” the way I saw it in the movie.

        FYI, I fully believe that Jesus was a prophet (but not God nor son of God), and if I want to believe on my religion I have to FIRST believe on Jesus, Moses, Abraham…
        My essential concern is that WHY would God need to have son. The good answer I got was below:

        /
        Actually without crucifixion there is no justification of a separate religion called Christianity. So Crucifixion is a must but then to justify crucixion they have to give reason and the reason is washing of sins of everybody. This is grand scale pardon of sin.
        Without crucifixion Christianity reduces to Judaism meaning Christianity becomes null and void.
        But then comes another problem why would anybody believe that such a death would wash away sin??? So to give a good justification there was no way but to give divinty to Jesus.
        Once divinity was given then came another problem that if he was divine then why cant he rise from dead, so to cover this resurrection concept came into existence.
        So in a way A lead to B, B lead to C and C lead to D.
        /

        • Mahmoud,

          Suzy is definitely not an expert. He does not understand Christianity at all. See my answer to him.

          suzy

          You demonstrate no understanding of Christianity, even when I explain it to you.

          Your reasoning is poor, so it helps if you make an effort to understand.

          You do not have to accept it, but you also should not mock it.

          Jesus rose from the dead, and he is divine in nature. What does divine mean? It means of heavenly origin.

          Jesus was in heaven before he ever came to earth. He volunteered to pay for our sins, which a holy God demanded payment for. You cannot receive forgiveness unless the penalty for your sins is paid. Jesus paid that price with his life.

          True Christianity is Judaism, in complete form.

          God had a son because it was his will to have one. All of heaven was established according to his will. Jesus was a heavenly being before he came to earth. He had a loving son-father relationship with God.

          When he came to earth, he taught about this relationship. This is what he wants us to have.

          But to have this, one must be pure, and free from sin.

          To only way to remove our sins and impurity was to have someone pay for our sins, the penalty we deserved. And we deserved suffering and death for all the sins we commit.

          So, out of love, Jesus was willing to take this for us. He had the right to change his mind, and not do it.

          God did not force him to do it. Jesus volunteered, because he wanted to see us holy before God, and see us go to heaven.

          Our own works are not good enough to gain this holiness, and right to heaven. Only complete purity of soul.

          When my computer is better, I will explain this better to you.

          I am waiting on a newer computer.

  171. Marianne,

    Been thinking about Abraham and his son Isaac and G-D asking Abraham to sacrifice Isaac…i have often wondered if this was in some way a preview/precursor to G-D sending His son Jesus to be sacrificed for our sins. I have wondered if this was G-D’s way of letting us know how painful this would be if we were ever asked to do this as was Abraham….BUT G-D stopped Abraham and provided a sacrifice in Isaac’s place! Any thoughts on this and the correlation?

    http://www.jewfaq.org/origins.htm

    AND i noticed from the link above that Abraham was born in 1948bc…..and Israel was “born” in 1948ad….how many years later was it when Jesus was born and/or ascended after Abraham was born? just wondering if this is a timeframe that we could look at since G-D does seem to repeat events, or rather, gives a “preview” before the actual event..

    • Lyndsey,

      You raised an excellent question!! Kudos.

      I conclude following:

      1. It seems that Abraham took lead over G-D in sacrificing his son.

      2. Since Issac was replaced by a lamb and that lamb was slaughtered there it became a practice to sacrifice lamb.

      3. Now when G-D sacrificed his son he did not replace it with a lamb or anything else, which means there is no need for any furter sacrifices. Sacrifice of Jesus was the final sacrifice.

      Now the question arises that if Jesus’s sac was final then why should jews go through tribulation??? Remember all sins are forgiven!!!!

      Suzy.

      • 1. God told Abraham to do this. It was not Abrahams’ idea.

        2. no, there were no more lambs until Moses received the instructions on MT Sinai, when he got the 10 commandments

        3. You finally got the idea! congratulations. :)

        Jews go through tribulation because they do not accept the sacrifice of Jesus, and reject him as Messiah.

        you have to accept Jesus as Messiah, and savior from sins, to be forgiven.

      • It was actually a Ram that was sacrificed instead of Isaac…not sure when the lambs were chosen or why.
        Genesis 22: 12 And he (G-D) said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son, from me.

        Marianne has more info on the tribulation-I am hoping to be outta here before the trouble starts (via rapture-catching away)…

        13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son. Heb. 11.17-19

        14 And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovah–ji’reh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen.

  172. Marianne,

    Is this person also part of the crazy Rabbis? He is explicitly difirrentiating between the Judhism and “Zionism”.

    • Yes he is crazy.

      Zionism is just the return of the Jews to Israel. It is not a conspiracy.

      Israel actually provides medical care to the Palestinians. Even during the flotilla incident, Israel made sure all humanitarian supplies got through to Gaza. But Hamas would not take the help. Hamas is the problem, not Israel or the Palestinian civilians.

      I have been in Israel, and have seen Israelis and Palestinians co-exist side by side. I stayed in a place that was physically beside a Palestinian town. I had to walk through the Palestinian town with some Israelis to get to the nearest bus station, and to get a hamburger. We had no problems. No one was abusing the other one. And this was in 2002, during the infitada. The violence occurs when Hamas shows up. Otherwise everyone was fine.

      Zionism is just a fulfillment of prophecy. God said he would bring the Jews back, and then the Messiah would come.

      These crazy Jews believe they are not to come back to Israel until AFTER the Messiah comes. So, in their minds, if the Jews are there now, they are disobeying God.

      But the bible clearly predicts that the Jews will be there before the Messiah.

      Armageddon occurs because the Jews are there, and get attacked, and this is when the Messiah comes to stop this war, and all wars.

      These Jews do not know their bible. They are excited about political and propaganda issues. If they would be quiet, there would be more peace. They just enrage people.

      • Marianne,

        You said “Armageddon occurs because the Jews are there, and get attacked, and this is when the Messiah comes to stop this war, and all wars”.

        Now the question is to have an Armageddon one needs an opponent who is willing to fight. There is no force in this world who is willing to fight Judeo-Christians Military nexus.

        Islamic world is a dust, they are so weak that they prefer to lick boots and get some aid. Russia wont get into any mid-east fight, I mean a fight as real as Armageddon.

        Russia may flex some muscle to get benefits and exude some power but there is no reason that they would get in as serious a business as Armageddon.

        Catholics and Protestant are with Jews or pro-Jews.

        And as you said that Messiah will come to stop the Armageddon and related wars but I dont see any Armageddon taking place at all in near future.

        Persia is a Pussy cat and Syria has read the end time Propeycies too well and are thus not willing to engage with Israel even though Israel has provoked them much.

        If there is no Armageddon then there is no Messiah coming.

        Can explain in detail how, when and where Armageddon can possibly take place.

        Suzy.

        • Syria does not want to fight but stores Weapons.

          Lebanon has fought several times in the recent history

          Palestianians are always fighting, they never quit. It is their reason for living.

          Turkey is becoming involved in tensions.

          Russia has given Iran nuclear material, and says it will attack the USA if it bothers Iran.

          Iran has already announced that it is going to blow up Israel. It is not a pussy cat. It has a crazy leader with a big mouth.

          The USA is already in the Persian gulf with battleships.

          All I know is that Israel will be attacked from the north direction.

          So just watch the news. I am not saying I am a prophet. I just watch prophecy.

          Let us just watch and see what happens next.

          • Whatever Syria, Iran, Lebanon and Turkey have amounts to little. Wars are not won with big mouths or crazy heads.

            I want to wait and watch, but there doesnt seem to be anything on the horizon or anything which can potentially come on the horizon.

            Suzy.

      • I have to agree that this Rabbi looks Crazy and weird. He also looks devoid of some sanity.

        Suzy.

      • I want to go to Israel! lets go! :)

        • Go! who is holding you my dear?
          Why are you putting a smiley face at the end? are you trying to tease someone here? :)
          Enjoy your trip ;)

      • Marianne,
        See. Again you call him crazy because he said the truth.
        One of the prophecies in Jews book is that Israel WON’T be established by the Jews themselves, it will be established by the Messiah and that is why they do not acknowledge the existence of current Israel.
        Tell me on thing. These Jews (or Crazy Jews as you called them), from where did they get to know that first the Messiah will come and then Israel will be established? was it from Quran? from Bible? and why are not they acknowledging it? if it was 1, 2, 3 or 100 people of them who believe on so I would call them Crazy Jews but it is a big chunk of the Israeli society who true Jews (or Crazy Jews) and they are against Zionism.
        You have no strong justification or evidence to prove that they are WRONG and you simply call them “Crazy Jews”

        • Mahmoud

          Of course, I have proof. I make it clear here when something is established by scripture, and when it is open for interpretation.

          And, the Jew is not only crazy, he is a bad Jew, and he does not know his scriptures. For this one crazy Jew, who thinks he has to wait for the Messiah to go to Israel, there are 20,000 rabbis who say the opposite.

          first of all, the Messiah does NOT bring anyone back. Repeatedly, the Lord says that HE will bring the Jews back himself.

          This is a divine action, and he brings them back by inspiration to the land from the 4 corners of the earth. This is not a man’s job.

          God says he is expelling the all the Jews from the land, but there will be a day when he, not the Messiah, brings them back ( if you want the whole chapter, you can read it on your own)

          Jer 30:3 For, lo, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will bring again the captivity of my people Israel and Judah, saith the LORD: and I will cause them to return to the land that I gave to their fathers, and they shall possess it.

          Jer 30:11 For I [am] with thee, saith the LORD, to save thee: though I make a full end of all nations whither I have scattered thee, yet will I not make a full end of thee:

          Notice they are returning after injury (holocaust)

          Jer 30:12 For thus saith the LORD, Thy bruise [is] incurable, [and] thy wound [is] grievous.

          Jer 30:13 [There is] none to plead thy cause, that thou mayest be bound up: thou hast no healing medicines.

          Read Ezekeil 36. It states that :”the enemy” has taken over the land before Israel gets there

          Eze 36:1 ¶ Also, thou son of man, prophesy unto the mountains of Israel, and say, Ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the LORD:

          Eze 36:2 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because the enemy hath said against you, Aha, even the ancient high places are ours in possession:

          God calls the enemy “heathen” not a good name for the Palestinians

          Eze 36:4 Therefore, ye mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord GOD; Thus saith the Lord GOD to the mountains, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys, to the desolate wastes, and to the cities that are forsaken, which became a prey and derision to the residue of the heathen that [are] round about;

          God promises to take the Jews out of the lands of the heathen and returns them to the land. It does not mention a Messiah will do this, but he, God will do it:

          Eze 36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

          Eze 36:28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

          Read Ezekiel 37, it predicts God resurrecting the nation of Israel, by comparing them to a valley of dry bones. He breathes life back into them, after what seems like death (holocaust), and returns them to the land. This was accomplished in 1948.

          Eze 37:14 And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD have spoken [it], and performed [it], saith the LORD.

          Notice, he did not say, I will send the Messiah, and he will do this. God said he would use his spirit.

          Here is the whole chapter:

          http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Eze&

          c=37&v=1&t=KJV#top

          Next, the war of Gog and Magog happen in the next chapter 38. The Messiah brings peace. Does this sound like the Messiah is around? No…..there is a big war.

          Eze 38:3 … Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I [am] against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

          Eze 38:8 ..in the latter years thou (Gog) shalt come into the land [that is] brought back from the sword, [and is] gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste:…..

          Eze 38:16 And thou (Gog) shalt come up against my people of Israel, as a cloud to cover the land; it shall be in the latter days, and I will bring thee against my land, that the heathen may know me, when I shall be sanctified in thee, O Gog, before their eyes.

          Eze 39:1 ¶ Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I [am] against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

          Eze 39:2 And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:

          rest of the chapter is here:

          http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Eze&c=39&v=1&t=KJV

          Next chapter, you see the vision of the predicted 3rd temple of God

          http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Eze&c=40&v=1&t=KJV

          There are many other verses like the ones I gave, but I do not want to put an entire book here.

          It is clear that God, not a Messiah, will bring the Jews back after injury and a time being scattered.

          The word Messiah only occurs one time in the bible, in Daniel 9:25-26, saying he will be killed (cut off):

          Dan 9:25 Know therefore and understand, [that] from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince [shall be] seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

          Dan 9:26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof [shall be] with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

          Remember, God is in control. He is the Redeemer, and the one who brings the Jews back, destroys the enemy supernaturally, and then establishes the reign of the Messiah.

  173. And why G-D doesnt have a daughter. Why G-D preferred to have a Son and not a daughter??? Even G-D chooses to have a Son and not a Daughter, this is Sexism.

    Please give me a good reason why G-D Choose to have a Son and not a Daugher.

    Suzy.

  174. Search in Wikipedia shows that their is contention between which of his two sons was offered as sacrifice. It proposes two possibilities, one Issac and second Ishmael.

    Is there any clear proof which son was sacrificed. Again source should be outside theology.

    Was it Issac or Ishmael???

    Suzy.

    • Suzy,

      It was Isaac, of course. Just because the Muslims wanted it to be Ishmael, does not change the facts.

      Ishmael and Hagar were sent away from the home after Hagar and Ishmael mocked Sarah. They were already gone from the home when this sacrifice event occurred.

      Isaac was born miraculously, as promised by God, once Sarah’s womb was old and barren. Sarah was about 90 years old. Isaac was the one promised to Abraham and Sarah.

      Ishmael was born by a younger woman who was fertile. Ishmael was born due to Abraham and Sarah’s impatience.

      God wanted the child of the promise, not the child of the flesh.

      ps. Have you seen the news about your pussycat Iran?

      http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100822/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iran_unmanned_bomber

      Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on Sunday inaugurated the country’s first domestically built unmanned bomber aircraft, calling it an “ambassador of death” to Iran’s enemies.

    • Genesis 21, Hagar and Ishameal are sent away-G-D takes care of them in the desert and promises to make Ishmael into a great nation

      http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+21&version=NIV

      Genesis 22, G-D tests Abraham with sacrificing Isaac

      http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis+22&version=NIV

      • And the Holy Scriptures are not theology-it is a history book.

        • And holds genealogical records as well as Israel’s deed to their land with measurements etc…As stated, “On the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying: ‘To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt (the Nile) to the great river, the River Euphrates.’ (Genesis 15:18 NKJV).

          ‘And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you. ‘Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.’
          (Genesis 17:7-8, NKJV, editor’s emphasis). ”

          http://britam.org/PROMISEDLAND.html

        • Strange since there are opposing views. I read that Muslims believe that at the time Hagar and Ishmael were resettled the child was still an infant.

          They say Ishamel was a baby when they were sent to wilderness and that Issac was 14 years younger to Ishmael.

          Now this makes two opposing stories. Bible says that Ishmael mocked Issac and Muslims say that Issac was born 14 year after Ishmael was sent off. Which one is correct????

          Suzy.

          • Isaac had just finished being weaned when Ishmael was sent off into the desert….

            Genesis 21
            The Birth of Isaac
            1 Now the LORD was gracious to Sarah as he had said, and the LORD did for Sarah what he had promised. 2 Sarah became pregnant and bore a son to Abraham in his old age, at the very time God had promised him. 3 Abraham gave the name Isaac [a] to the son Sarah bore him. 4 When his son Isaac was eight days old, Abraham circumcised him, as God commanded him. 5 Abraham was a hundred years old when his son Isaac was born to him.
            6 Sarah said, “God has brought me laughter, and everyone who hears about this will laugh with me.” 7 And she added, “Who would have said to Abraham that Sarah would nurse children? Yet I have borne him a son in his old age.”

            Hagar and Ishmael Sent Away
            8 The child grew and was weaned, and on the day Isaac was weaned Abraham held a great feast. 9 But Sarah saw that the son whom Hagar the Egyptian had borne to Abraham was mocking, 10 and she said to Abraham, “Get rid of that slave woman and her son, for that slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with my son Isaac.”
            11 The matter distressed Abraham greatly because it concerned his son. 12 But God said to him, “Do not be so distressed about the boy and your maidservant. Listen to whatever Sarah tells you, because it is through Isaac that your offspring [b] will be reckoned. 13 I will make the son of the maidservant into a nation also, because he is your offspring.”

            14 Early the next morning Abraham took some food and a skin of water and gave them to Hagar. He set them on her shoulders and then sent her off with the boy. She went on her way and wandered in the desert of Beersheba.

            15 When the water in the skin was gone, she put the boy under one of the bushes. 16 Then she went off and sat down nearby, about a bowshot away, for she thought, “I cannot watch the boy die.” And as she sat there nearby, she [c] began to sob.

            17 God heard the boy crying, and the angel of God called to Hagar from heaven and said to her, “What is the matter, Hagar? Do not be afraid; God has heard the boy crying as he lies there. 18 Lift the boy up and take him by the hand, for I will make him into a great nation.”

            19 Then God opened her eyes and she saw a well of water. So she went and filled the skin with water and gave the boy a drink.

            20 God was with the boy as he grew up. He lived in the desert and became an archer. 21 While he was living in the Desert of Paran, his mother got a wife for him from Egypt.

            • Yes, the two stories are starkly different. Here I jot down the differences to the story in bible:

              1. When Ishamel was sent off he was an infant and Issac was not even born until 14 years afterwards.

              2. Yes, Sarah and Hagar quarreled with each other but Sarah was not the reason for resettlement of Hagar and her boy.

              3. Hagar and baby were not sent off all by themselves. Abraham escorted them as he was the one whom God told where to resettle Hagar and her boy.

              4. Abraham resetled Hagar near the Big Black Cube which is now in Mecca. So the destination was not arbitrary but was chosen perdeterminedly.

              5. Abraham intermittently kept visiting Ishmael.

              6. The Black cube in Mecca where Hagar was settled by not there rather its foundations were below the earth. Both Abraham and Ishamel rebuitl the Black Cube on the foundation which were underground and were first built by Adam.

              7. So the relocation position actually connects back to Adam. They say Adam first built the Black cube and latet both Abraham and Ishamel rebuilt it on the same foundations.

              8. From the muslim version it seems that God was trying to establish two centers of holiness, one in Jerusalem and other in Mecca.

              But it is confusing why the two stories dont match up.

              Suzy.

              • Genesis 21
                Hagar and Ishmael Sent Away
                8 The child grew and was weaned, and on the day Isaac was weaned Abraham held a great feast. 9 But Sarah saw that the son whom Hagar the Egyptian had borne to Abraham was mocking, 10 and she said to Abraham, “Get rid of that slave woman and her son, for that slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with my son Isaac.”
                11 The matter distressed Abraham greatly because it concerned his son. 12 But God said to him, “Do not be so distressed about the boy and your maidservant. Listen to whatever Sarah tells you, because it is through Isaac that your offspring [b] will be reckoned. 13 I will make the son of the maidservant into a nation also, because he is your offspring.”

                14 Early the next morning Abraham took some food and a skin of water and gave them to Hagar. He set them on her shoulders and then sent her off with the boy. She went on her way and wandered in the desert of Beersheba.

                15 When the water in the skin was gone, she put the boy under one of the bushes. 16 Then she went off and sat down nearby, about a bowshot away, for she thought, “I cannot watch the boy die.” And as she sat there nearby, she [c] began to sob.

                17 God heard the boy crying, and the angel of God called to Hagar from heaven and said to her, “What is the matter, Hagar? Do not be afraid; God has heard the boy crying as he lies there. 18 Lift the boy up and take him by the hand, for I will make him into a great nation.”

                19 Then God opened her eyes and she saw a well of water. So she went and filled the skin with water and gave the boy a drink.

                20 God was with the boy as he grew up. He lived in the desert and became an archer. 21 While he was living in the Desert of Paran, his mother got a wife for him from Egypt

          • Look closely at what you are saying.

            Muslims believe that at the time Hagar and Ishmael were resettled, the child was still an infant.

            They say Ishamel was a baby when they were sent to wilderness and that Issac was 14 years younger to Ishmael.

            so Isaac had already been born, when Ishmael was sent off.

            then you say….

            Muslims say that Issac was born 14 year after Ishmael was sent off

            Muslims have the contradiction, not the bible.

            Both bible and Muslims agree that Ishmael was older, and he was not there after the age of 14.

            The sacrifice event then occurred after Ishmael left.

            Also, the even on the mountain did not mention Sarah, because she did not come for the event. She was at home.

            • Let me correct it, I was not copy pasting from any document. I was writing from what I read somewhere. These were my words only and I may have made a complex sentence.

              So when i said “Muslims believe that at the time Hagar and Ishmael were resettled, the child was still an infant.” THIS INFANT I meant it to be Ishamel.

              So the point of contention is that one story says that Ishamel was an infant when he left. Then 14 years went by before Issac could born. Whereas Bible says that Ishamel and Issac lived in the same house for some time nad Ishamel used to mock Issac. Now talk of jealousy b/w kids, :)

              This is a big deviation b/w the two stories.

              Suzy,

  175. Genesis 22 (New International Version)

    Genesis 22
    Abraham Tested
    1 Some time later God tested Abraham. He said to him, “Abraham!”
    “Here I am,” he replied.
    2 Then God said, “Take your son, your only son, Isaac, whom you love, and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains I will tell you about.”

    3 Early the next morning Abraham got up and saddled his donkey. He took with him two of his servants and his son Isaac. When he had cut enough wood for the burnt offering, he set out for the place God had told him about. 4 On the third day Abraham looked up and saw the place in the distance. 5 He said to his servants, “Stay here with the donkey while I and the boy go over there. We will worship and then we will come back to you.”

    6 Abraham took the wood for the burnt offering and placed it on his son Isaac, and he himself carried the fire and the knife. As the two of them went on together, 7 Isaac spoke up and said to his father Abraham, “Father?”
    “Yes, my son?” Abraham replied.
    “The fire and wood are here,” Isaac said, “but where is the lamb for the burnt offering?”

    8 Abraham answered, “God himself will provide the lamb for the burnt offering, my son.” And the two of them went on together.

    9 When they reached the place God had told him about, Abraham built an altar there and arranged the wood on it. He bound his son Isaac and laid him on the altar, on top of the wood. 10 Then he reached out his hand and took the knife to slay his son. 11 But the angel of the LORD called out to him from heaven, “Abraham! Abraham!”
    “Here I am,” he replied.

    12 “Do not lay a hand on the boy,” he said. “Do not do anything to him. Now I know that you fear God, because you have not withheld from me your son, your only son.”

    13 Abraham looked up and there in a thicket he saw a ram [a] caught by its horns. He went over and took the ram and sacrificed it as a burnt offering instead of his son. 14 So Abraham called that place The LORD Will Provide. And to this day it is said, “On the mountain of the LORD it will be provided.”

    15 The angel of the LORD called to Abraham from heaven a second time 16 and said, “I swear by myself, declares the LORD, that because you have done this and have not withheld your son, your only son, 17 I will surely bless you and make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies, 18 and through your offspring [b] all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me.”

    • In Bible’s version of Issac’s sacrifice there is no mention of Sarah. Has Sarah already died by the time of sac?????

      • Sarah dies at age 127 in Genesis 23 which is years later AFTER Abraham is tested by G-D with Isaac in Genesis 22.
        Genesis 23
        The Death of Sarah
        1 Sarah lived to be a hundred and twenty-seven years old. 2 She died at Kiriath Arba (that is, Hebron) in the land of Canaan, and Abraham went to mourn for Sarah and to weep over her.

  176. I carried out a logical analysis to figure out which son would Abraham must have sacrificed.

    The logic says that if Abraham had two sons alive then it would be less difficult for him to sacrifice one to GOd as he would still be left with one child for himself. However Christians here throw a spanner and discount Ishmael from sonship altogether and say that Issac was the only real son of covenant. By logic it has to be Ishamel as the son of sacrifice.

    Moreover logic says that Abraham made a mistake of not waiting to get the Issac even thought God has foretold him about giving son to Sarah. So logic says that God was angry with Abraham and before he would give Issac to Abraham he would test Abraham if he is truly loyal to him. Therefore as per logic God asked Abraham to sac Ishmael. However Abraham never failed to sac Ishmael and this satisfied God and therefore in a year or so God then gave Issac to Sarah after abraham had passed the test.

    Moreover story of separation of Ishmael shows that God never wanted the two son’s to mix with each other in the first place and hence Ishamel was resettled when he was an infant and Issac was born 14 years later.

    This is my logical analysis.

    Suzy.

    • Suzy

      I think you are speculating too much, which is not backed by any scripture.

      If Abraham proved himself with Ishmael sacrifice, then God would not have waited 14 more years to reward Abraham.

      Isaac was already born. Ishmael left when he was 14 years old, and Isaac was still a baby.

      But the stories do not agree between Islam and Bible……

      All the original people are now dead…. Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Hagar, and Ishmael.

      You cannot ask them what happened.

      So there is no use in trying to solve this. It is over.

    • Logic would say that the dead sea scrolls are authentically dated to be over 2100 years old wheras the quaran is dated at being 1000 years old. The information found within the dead sea scrolls, being older, would prove logically that just by its age it supercedes anything written after it. Further, logic would also be that if everything within the dead sea scrolls has come to pass thus far with the exception of just a few future events left to unfold, then logic and commonsense would warrant attention paid to the dead sea scrolls and the information within as opposed to any other documents coming after it.

  177. God is not unjust and cannot ask to sacrifice a child below the age of 12. Most likely Ishmael was sacrificed when he was 13 and then year later GOd Gave Issac to Sarah as a reward of passing the test.

    Note that Ishmael was roughly 14 years older than Issac. If Issac was scarificed, lets say, at 14 then Ishmael must have been 28 and must have had his own children. Thus making Abraham a grandfather and thus Abraham would have no problem in sacrificing Issac as he would have Ishamel and Grandsons with him. Such a test would be far to easy.

    The only reason GOd tested Abraham with sacrifice was to make him go through tough time and see if he gives up his world for God. As we know for 14 years he only has Ishmael as his son and this his entire world was Ishmael and God asked to sacrifice his only son (ishmael at that time).

    Abraham was loyal to God and sacrifice his first born and only child at the time, he sacrificed all he had. He sacrificed the son he got because of not waiting for God’s mercy thus washing away his sin.

    Suzy.

    • Moreover Accroding to Muslims when GOd sent angels to Abraham to give good news of birth of Issac to Sarah they at the same time also gave the good new thst there will follow Jacob from Issac.

      So angels told abraham that he will get Issac and then Jacob from Issac. Thus making it impossible for Issac to be the child of sacrifice becuase Abraham knew that GOd had already promised to give Jacob thru Issac. Abraham would have found it too easy to sacrifice Issac knowing that he cannot die cuz jacob is to come from him.

      Suzy.

    • When Sarah and Abraham are in Egypt, on their way to the Promised Land, Hagar, an Egyptian girl, becomes a handmaiden for Sarah. Since Sarah is childless she tells Abraham he should conceive a child with Hagar. However, once Hagar becomes pregnant, her relationship with Sarah turns bitter. Hagar leaves home but an angel of God tells her she will bear a son, Ishmael and he will be the head of many tribes and she should return home to Abraham and Sarah. Hagar returns and Ishmael is born.
      Thirteen years later, God promises Abraham that Sarah will bear a son who will inherit his covenant.
      After Sarah gives birth to Isaac, she insists that Abraham cast out Hagar and Ishmael. Once again, God reassures him that Ishmael and his offspring will make a great nation. Abraham reluctantly sends them away.

    • G-d does NOT sacrifice children. G-d abhorred/despised/detested the sacrificing of children as was done by Abrahams’ neighbors who worshiped other gods. The point of G-D asking Abraham to sacrifice Isaac was done as a TEST-to see if Abraham would have FAITH in HIM and OBEY HIM despite the BIZARRE REQUEST. Remember, Abraham BELIEVED in G-D SO MUCH that he knew that G-d would either a)resurrect Isaac or b) provide another sacrifice, of which G-D did in the form of a RAM. Abraham said to Isaac when Isaac asked him where the Ram was, Abraham said “G-D will provide”.

  178. An important Fact that I would like you to observe now is how the scribes switched names to illegitimize Ishmael.
    The scribes and commentators say that Ishmael is not a legitimate son of Abraham and therefore the covenant was only with Isaac.

    Now I will show you in the Scripture that it was Really Ishmael who was to be sacrificed and the covenant was first done with Ishmael and Ishmael was a legitimate son of Abraham even after Abraham’s death.

    1. The covenant was first made with Abraham and Ishmael;
    Genesis 17:10 This [is] my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
    Genesis 17:13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

    Note:-

    2. It was really Ishmael and not Isaac who was going to be sacrificed and the Jewish scribes because of vanity, switched the names;
    Genesis 16:16 “and Abram [is] a son of eighty and six years in Hagar’s bearing Ishmael to Abram.”

    Who’s son? Abraham’s “son”. Now as far as the sacrifice is concerned, Genesis 17:24 “Abraham was ninety-nine years old when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin.”

    That makes Abraham’s son Ishmael 13, how old is Isaac at this time? Genesis 21:5 “Abraham was a hundred years old when his son Isaac was born to him.”

    that means during the circumcision/sacrifice, Abraham’s only “begotten” son is Ishmael and not Isaac as the Bible says.

    KJV Hebrews 11:17 “By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,”

    Therefore we see that Isaac was not the only son, as a matter of fact, Isaac was not even born yet and Abraham’s Only begotten son was Ishmael.

    Genesis 17:20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

    3. Ishmael was a legitimate son even after Abraham died;

    Genesis 16:3 “And Sarai Abram’s wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.”

    Genesis 25:9 “Then his sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him (Abraham) in *the cave of Machpelah, in the field of Ephron the son of Zohar the Hittite, facing Mamre,”

    Genesis 25:12 “Now these are the records of the generations of *Ishmael, Abraham’s son, whom Hagar the Egyptian, Sarah’s maid, bore to Abraham;”

    • Mahmoud,

      Excellent analysis from biblical resources. They have to delegitimize Ishmael otherwise as per bible the sacrifice falls on Ishmael. Logic also proves this and Gospel of Islam also proves this.

      One point which have picked up in bible about Ishmael is jealousy statement. Someone who hated Ishmaelites put in the bible that Ishmael mocked Issac, all the while Ishmael and Issac never lived together. Ishmael was resettled when he was a suckling. This statement of mocking is handywork of jealoused Chrisitans and Jews.

      I have nothing against Jews and Christians but in my analysis I have consistently noted that instead of presentng their own stuff they becomes belligirent towards other religions and also always go out of the way using heretical reasoning to prove the point.

      I have to say “so what if Ishamel was sacrificed”, why go out of the way to prove it was Issac, all the while boat load of evidence points towards Ishamel.

      To tell you the truth Marianne understood my LOGIC!!!! This is where she tried to tell me that Abraham, Issac, Sarah, Ishamel and Hagar are dead and therefore no need to probe this matter. You know LOL, even after seeing the truth they dont acknowledge it.

      There is a serious lack of honesty here on the part of these ladies. BUT MARIANNE DID GOT MY POINT However she is helpless to admit it.

      Suzy.

      • On top of that Sarah was almost like an uncrowned Prophetess. How could she separate son from a father. This is not the way pious ladies behave. Yes, there was bitter relation b/w Hagar and Sarah but this does not mean that Sarah would commit the cruelty of separating son from father.

        Also ask the heart of Abraham the father, and he will tell you that he loved both his sons equally.

        There is still more material which points that Ishamel was still an infant when he was resettled, this is why Ismael did not run with her mother b/w the two hills in search of people and water. Had Ishamel been even 4 years old he would have run alongside her mother b/w the two hills to find water.

        The story of relocation of Hagar has strong historical evidence, she was relocated near the Black Cube, near the two hills and near the Spring from which Ishamel was given drink. All the items exist in Mecca of today.

        This relocation cannot be by chance, it seems to be a plan established by GOd before hand. God was trying to establish two centers of holiness, one ins Jerusalem and other in Mecca.

        Hagar is the founder of city called Mecca.

        Suzy.

        • Suzy,
          It was God’s desire and order to prophet Abraham to relocate Hagar and Ishmael. However, Sarah was so jealous because Hagar got the baby and she could not (you know how women they jealous :) )
          Abraham came to Hagar and asked her to gather her stuff and her baby because they need to relocate.. Actually he did not know where he was heading to but the angels, during his trip, were telling him about the location. Till they reached a place that no people were living at, no water, no tree, nothing at all except mountain and desert.
          Abraham told Hagar that this is the place that you should live at and I will be coming to you again. Since Hagar believe on God she asked Abraham if God wanted you to bring us here and he answer: Yes, it was God desire. She told him: If it was God’s desire then He will never forget us.
          Abraham left them crying as God ordered him to go back to Holdy Land.
          The water that Hagar had was finished so she ran to a mount (Safa mount in Mecca now) thinking that she could find any one there to help them with the water but she did not find anything, then she went to the opposite mount (Marwa mount in Mecca now) doing the same thing but she could not find people. She repeated going between them 7 times (which is basically the 7 times the Muslims do in Mecca during Hajj) then angel Gabriel came to the land, hit the land and water spring started to float out and the spring is available till now and it is called ZamZam Spring.
          Birds.
          Arabic tribes started to go to the place to have water and some of them sattled there. Ishmael learnt arabic and grown there among them.
          God asked Abraham to go and visit Hagar and Ishmael and he could see Ishmael grown then God asked him to build the house (Ka’ba in Mecca now or as you called it the black qube :) ) which was built by Adam. Abraham could see the base was built of Ka’ba and he just raised it again as it was destroyed across the ages by winds, floads and winds.
          The story is long but I could give a brief of it

        • Surely God wanted them to relocate to the new place because he wanted his house to be built (the black cube – Ka’ba) and still the footprints of Abraham are yet available next to Ka’ba up to this moment.
          Muslims center of praying used to be Al Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem which was built by prophet Abraham and then it was changed during Prophet Muhammad time (as God ordered him) to be the Haram Mosque in Mecca.

      • No worries, in the new version of Bible the scribes will modify Abraham’s age in order to remove the evidences that point into Ishmael and keep the lie that Issac was the one :)

        • Mahmoud,

          The Old testament/Torah was written in Hebrew as is found in the dead sea scrolls. The New Testament was written in Greek.

          If you know of anyone who speaks or reads Hebrew I would urge you to earnestly seek out the truth and see if you can find this part of the dead sea scrolls and read it for yourself. Sometimes they have the dead sea scrolls on exhibition in various museums.

    • I never said Ishmael was not Abrahams’s son. I am not the one who wrote the scriptures. I am only the messenger. G-d has His reasons for choosing who he does and does not. G-D clearly stated that the convenant was for Isaac. And this is shown by the genealogical records and throughout the scriptures.

      As evident from the scripturs, Genesis 16, Sarah, out of lack of faith, asked Abram (name not changed yet by G-d) to go to Hagar…Hagar was called Sarah’s mistress. When Hagar got pregnant, Sarah became Jealous-Hagar sensed this and fled….but came back…and this is what the scriptures say about all of this including what will be the future of Ishmael….Genesis 16
      1: Now Sarai Abram’s wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar.
      2: And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the LORD hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai.
      3: And Sarai Abram’s wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.
      4: And he went in unto Hagar, and she conceived: and when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress was despised in her eyes.
      5: And Sarai said unto Abram, My wrong be upon thee: I have given my maid into thy bosom; and when she saw that she had conceived, I was despised in her eyes: the LORD judge between me and thee.
      6: But Abram said unto Sarai, Behold, thy maid is in thy hand; do to her as it pleaseth thee. And when Sarai dealt hardly with her, she fled from her face.
      7: And the angel of the LORD found her by a fountain of water in the wilderness, by the fountain in the way to Shur.
      8: And he said, Hagar, Sarai’s maid, whence camest thou? and whither wilt thou go? And she said, I flee from the face of my mistress Sarai.
      9: And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands.
      10: And the angel of the LORD said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude.
      11: And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.
      12: AND HE WILL BE A WILD MAN; HIS HAND WILL BE AGAINST EVERY MAN AND EVERY MAN’S HAND AGAINST HIM; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren.
      13: And she called the name of the LORD that spake unto her, Thou God seest me: for she said, Have I also here looked after him that seeth me?
      14: Wherefore the well was called Beer-lahai-roi; behold, it is between Kadesh and Bered.
      15: And Hagar bare Abram a son: and Abram called his son’s name, which Hagar bare, Ishmael.
      16: And Abram was fourscore and six years old, when Hagar bare Ishmael to Abram.

  179. Genesis 25

    1: Then again Abraham took a wife, and her name was Keturah.
    2: And she bare him Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah.
    3: And Jokshan begat Sheba, and Dedan. And the sons of Dedan were Asshurim, and Letushim, and Leummim.
    4: And the sons of Midian; Ephah, and Epher, and Hanoch, and Abida, and Eldaah. All these were the children of Keturah.
    5: **And Abraham gave all that he had unto Isaac. **
    6: But unto the sons of the concubines, which Abraham had, Abraham gave gifts, and sent them away from Isaac his son, while he yet lived, eastward, unto the east country.
    7: And these are the days of the years of Abraham’s life which he lived, an hundred threescore and fifteen years.
    8: Then Abraham gave up the ghost, and died in a good old age, an old man, and full of years; and was gathered to his people.
    9: And his sons Isaac and Ishmael buried him in the cave of Machpelah, in the field of Ephron the son of Zohar the Hittite, which is before Mamre;
    10: The field which Abraham purchased of the sons of Heth: there was Abraham buried, and Sarah his wife.
    11: And it came to pass after the death of Abraham, that God blessed his son Isaac; and Isaac dwelt by the well Lahai-roi.
    12: Now these are the generations of Ishmael, Abraham’s son, whom Hagar the Egyptian, Sarah’s handmaid, bare unto Abraham:
    13: And these are the names of the sons of Ishmael, by their names, according to their generations: the firstborn of Ishmael, Nebajoth; and Kedar, and Adbeel, and Mibsam,
    14: And Mishma, and Dumah, and Massa,
    15: Hadar, and Tema, Jetur, Naphish, and Kedemah:
    16: These are the sons of Ishmael, and these are their names, by their towns, and by their castles; twelve princes according to their nations.
    17: And these are the years of the life of Ishmael, an hundred and thirty and seven years: and he gave up the ghost and died; and was gathered unto his people.
    18: And they dwelt from Havilah unto Shur, that is before Egypt, as thou goest toward Assyria: and he died in the presence of all his brethren.

    • Purpose of Holy Book is to be a moral and spiritual guide to all humans. God does not waste time in joting down genealogies of various tribes and Dynasties. This is of no used to God and Humans.

      Clearly the style of writing of Bible and the content of Bible evidently shows that handywork of scribes has infitered Bible.

      Suzy.

      • I think the first new testament was in Greek and none of the scholars nor disciples could speak Greek.
        Jesus language was Aramaic.
        That does not make sense :O

  180. Abraham did love Ishamael and he was distraught over having to send them away at Sarah’s request and G-D’s reassurance of Sarah’s request. Anything deviated from the scriptures is a lie and does not hold up (no matter how you try) It is also important to note and realize that the Jews FEAR G-D and would have considered it blasphemous to deviate from what the original writings stated, thus, what is translated from the Dead Sea Scrolls is accurate and truthful and add up as opposed to your conspiracy theories.

    Further, Ishmael was conceived and born due to lack of faith on Sarah’s part. The first time that Sarah heard about her giving Abraham a son, she laughed and did not believe. She took it upon herself to “give” Abraham a son through her handmaiden, Hagar. THEN, Sarah became pregnant and realized what she had done out of lack of faith. There was obviously jealously between the 2 women because yes, Ishmael was Abraham’s first born BUT Ishamel was born “out of wedlock” per se, Remember, Sarah was Abraham’s ONLY wife at this time and since Isaac was the one promised to Abraham and SARAH-NOT HAGAR- by G-D himself and born to Abrahams’ wife then the blessings and covenant went to Isaac NOT Ishmael. This doesn’t imply that Abraham didn’t love Ishmael, he did, and it broke his heart to send him away-Abraham was a MAN of FAITH and he believed G-D and obeyed him regardless. What I have always thought was testimony to G-D’s true nature and LOVE was that even tho Ishmael and his mom were sent away, G-D took care of Ishmael in the desert and promised to make him into a great nation-which He did as is evident today. However, the blessings and COVENANT was given to Isaac which resulted in the 12 tribes of Israel through Jacob, who wrestled with G-D and was given the name “Israel”….thus, the NATION of ISRAEL comes FROM JACOB who came from ISAAC who came from ABRAHAM; They say “G-D of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob”.

    • You are forgetting the traditions of the time. You cannot just sit in 21st century and talk of 2000 BC with traditions of 21st century in mind.

      Back in those days a handimaid was considered wife of the man. It was considered legal to have intercourse with handimaid. When you say that ABRAHAM GOT CHILD OUT OF WED-LOCK, this means that you are charging Abraham with Adultery. Do God fearing Prophet commit Adultery. Did GOd say Abraham committed adultery. Remember Adultery is a big sin in the eyes of GOd, sometime worth of death by stoning according to jewish traditions themselves.

      Moreover Hagar was a daughter of a King. When King tried to show interest in Sarah, God made it impossible for the King to approach Sarah as a result King understood that a bigger power is with Sarah and Abraham, therefore he said to abraham that it is better for my daughter to serve Sarah & Abraham as Handimaid then to become princess of her own house. It was out of gratitutde that King lowered the status of her own daughter.

      Now to whic handimaiden would angels talk with, if Hagar was such a lowly handimaid why would angels come and talk with her. How many women in his world have existed with whom angels have spoken.

      Bible is infiltered with prejudices of scribes.

      Suzy.

    • And most importantly, I just realized, that if you switch the names Isaac with Ishmael to fit the scenario that you are wanting, Suzy, then after doing so you would have to rewrite the rest of the scriptures…it would not “fit”…. Starting with “the G-D of Abraham, ISAAC and Jacob”……JACOB wrestled with G-D and his name was changed to ISRAEL. The nation of Israel (Jacob) is made up out of the 12 tribes (sons) of JACOB who is the son of Isaac who is the son of Abraham.

      Jacob wrestles with God to obtain a blessing

      Jacob is blessed by God before he meets his brother Esau who hates him to death because he took away his blessing deceitfully from his father.

      Genesis 32:24-30
      24 Jacob was left alone; and a man wrestled with him until daybreak.
      25 When the man saw that he did not prevail against Jacob, he struck him on the hip socket; and Jacob’s hip was put out of joint as he wrestled with him.
      26 Then he said, “Let me go, for the day is breaking.” But Jacob said, “I will not let you go, unless you bless me.”
      27 So he said to him, “What is your name?” And he said, “Jacob.”
      28 Then the man said, “You shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel, for you have striven with God and with humans, and have prevailed.”
      29 Then Jacob asked him, “Please tell me your name.” But he said, “Why is it that you ask my name?” And there he blessed him.
      30 So Jacob called the place Peniel, saying, “For I have seen God face to face, and yet my life is preserved.”

      http://www.theworkofgod.org/library/joseph/Bless3.htm

      • Genesis 35:9-15
        God appears to Jacob again

        9 God appeared to Jacob again when he came from Paddan-aram, and he blessed him.
        10 God said to him, “Your name is Jacob; no longer shall you be called Jacob, but Israel shall be your name.” So he was called Israel.
        11 God said to him, “I am God Almighty: be fruitful and multiply; a nation and a company of nations shall come from you, and kings shall spring from you.
        12 The land that I gave to Abraham and Isaac I will give to you, and I will give the land to your offspring after you.”
        13 Then God went up from him at the place where he had spoken with him.
        14 Jacob set up a pillar in the place where he had spoken with him, a pillar of stone; and he poured out a drink offering on it, and poured oil on it.
        15 So Jacob called the place where God had spoken with him Bethel.

        http://www.theworkofgod.org/library/joseph/Bless3.htm

        Suzy,

        You would have to go back and literally change all the scriptures AND the genealogical records in order to make your scenario/”logic” apply. Then you would have to REVERSE all the descendants from Ishmael who make up Iran to live in Israel and the descendants of Isaac who make up Israel to live in Iran. Do you see how this could not be done?

      • Please do not put forth preposterous idea of man fighting God. Also do not move away from Issac – Ishmael story by bringing in Jacob.

        Suzy.

        • Suzy,

          I am trying to show you how your version of what happened is impossible. The Bible/Scriptures which were translated from the Dead Sea Scrolls which are carbon dated to be at least 2100 years old, is not just a moral guide handbook….it is HISTORY full of genealogical records etc…the short version is this and Mahmoud has also tried to show you….Ishamel’s descendants (I believe to be Iran) are cousins to Isaac’s descendants who make up Israel. To get your version of the story, you would have to change all of history along with changing the genealogical records!

          I brought up Jacob, Isaac’s son and Abraham’s grandson, to show you the lineage….Jacob wrestled with G-D and was given the name ISRAEL…..thus, the nation of ISRAEL….Jacob came from ISAAC and Isaac came from Abraham!

          Now, I also copied/pasted the genealogy of Ishmael as seen in the above posts from Old Testament, Genesis chapter 25:12: Now these are the generations of Ishmael, Abraham’s son, whom Hagar the Egyptian, Sarah’s handmaid, bare unto Abraham:
          13: And these are the names of the sons of Ishmael, by their names, according to their generations: the firstborn of Ishmael, Nebajoth; and Kedar, and Adbeel, and Mibsam,
          14: And Mishma, and Dumah, and Massa,
          15: Hadar, and Tema, Jetur, Naphish, and Kedemah:
          16: These are the sons of Ishmael, and these are their names, by their towns, and by their castles; twelve princes according to their nations.
          17: And these are the years of the life of Ishmael, an hundred and thirty and seven years: and he gave up the ghost and died; and was gathered unto his people.
          18: And they dwelt from Havilah unto Shur, that is before Egypt, as thou goest toward Assyria: and he died in the presence of all his brethren.

          • Sorry that I dont buy the genealogies, I dont buy into my own genealogy, neither yours, nor Issac’s, nor Ishmael’s.

            TOrah was send 1300 BC as per Marianne. TO say dead sea Scrolls are 2100 years old then i ask whatever happened to remaining 1200 years. If dead sea scrolls were 3300 years old then I would be willing to take a look but they are from much later date and thus are of no interest or of any significant value for claiming anything.

            I also dont believe in carbon dating. Reasoning, Rationality, Logic, Consistency, style of authorship, material content and historical evidence are the parameters which interest me. I use these parameters to gauge stuff.

            Suzy.

            • Moreover Dead Sea scrolls comprises of Biblical and extra biblical documents. The biblical documents are 40% of the of the scroll material found. Out of this 40% the 30% of biblical material is from Apocryphal sources, which were not canonized in the later bible. So you see that only 10% material is related to bible.

              Moreover the found documents in dead sea scroll were written in 3 different languages.

              Moreover Carbon dating varies and some documents are from 70CE. So you cannot claim that all documents are from 100 BC.

              This is why I say that you guys are not truthful in disseminating information. You guys only disseminate your own view, this is not a good way of teaching.

              Suzy.

  181. Suzy,

    There is no teaching because there is no student. A student wishes to learn. You have clearly demonstrated that you are not here to learn.

    I don’t have to defend the Scriptures-they defend themselves by the accuracies of the prophecies found within them. I don’t have to know how old they are to know that the prophecies are coming true everyday when I read a news headline. For academic purposes, and as I was taught in college, you have to show your resources to back up your statements and this is what I have done including the carbon dating (SCIENCE) of the dead sea scrolls. The book of Isaiah alone is aged (scientifically documented-carbon dated) at 2100 years old.

    It is your choice what you choose to believe and not believe. I have presented the facts alongside documentation and you still want to argue-so argue to your life’s content. What do you gain by this? I Know what the TRUTH is and I am simply trying to show it to you-if you reject the truth then that is your choice not mine-you have everything to lose Suzy-your soul! By not accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour you will die/perish and not have everlasting life. By not coming into a relationship with Jesus, you miss out on more than I could ever desribe in these pages. You can decipher and analyze and argue every word of all the scriptures (there are plenty there to keep you busy for several lifetimes) but in the end, what have you gained if by reading the truth and thereby shown the truth you choose to deny it!?

    • Holy Scripture does not only have prophetic content in it. Its consists of Prophetic and non-prophetic content. Here non-Prophetic content is a loaded word.

      It is possible that Prophetic content did not alter that much but the non-Prophetic content altered a great deal.

      There is always more to learn, you just have to dig under the stone.

      Suzy.

      • Lindsey my sister,

        We have to be careful in what we select. These men have fooled us for too long. It is time we use our own brain and figure out the truth.

        Isnt it ironic that Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all mid-east religion and yet we choose to follow Christianity and hate Islam. My question is why we choose one and hate other, all the while both are middle eastern religion.

        Moreover middle eastern people look different from us. The jew form 1300 BC to 70 AD were light brown people just like the arabs. My question is why GOd did not send Prophet on our White People. Why we White people should follow middle eastern religion.

        The jew who look white are cuz Jew spent considerable amount of time in Europe and this got into mixed marriages otherwise original jews were brown or light brown in color.

        Moreover Romans were White people and they were most progressive people and has strong military thought they were pagan. Then we followed middle eastern religion and went backwards in our progress. Then ever since we have separated reiligion from state we are again progressing. The more pagan we become the more we look like our roman ancestors in terms of progress. By race we are the romans.

        What you say???

        Suzy.

        Suzy.

      • You can decipher and analyze and argue every word of all the scriptures (there are plenty there to keep you busy for several lifetimes) but in the end, what have you gained if by reading the truth and thereby shown the truth you choose to deny it!?

  182. Pardon me for speaking up… Never would I place in such an ignorant and ego speech… Waging tongues against God and belief is the price you’ll pay.. Do not feed any more confusions on anyone. For myself, I can give very simple and logic ways to give example…
    I do born 4 children.. but one daughter out of three lives with my own flesh father who consider to be my enemy on his own regards… yet I trust in God to watch over her… and I have three children that are living with me.. I thank God everyday for giving me three special children that happens to be deaf like me. In my entire family are all hearing.. and I ain’t. Do I crow and hide myself in shame ? Abousately NOT! If my God ever ask me to give my entire children to HIM.. I would GLADLY do SO… It is basic on FAITH AND LOVE that lays within is the true key…that entrust in God’s hands and trusting him to mold and potter in HIS will.. not my own…

    To be blunt, when I listen and read… Suzy, I am very sorry but have to disagree with you STRONGLY… because my heart and soul says you walk on mocking path for mocking God with words that does not HOLD true colors NOR the TRUTH of LIGHT… but I do FEEL his slow to anger simply because I read THIS daily and can feel within that is slowing to a boil… that tells ” I do not like what SHE is doing… She must tread HERSELF CAREFULLY or her ground WILL BE SHAKEN in HIS will to fear HIM, the Lord of hosts. ”

    Nothing wrong with learning and sharing.. BUT TELLING OTHERS TO CHANGE THE VIEWS AREN’T ANYONE’S PLACE but GOD himeself ALONE!.. Good grief…. STOP looking at cities.. because that is WHEN people lost the touch with nature and knowledge from mystery nature and beyond to learn and to understanding… with patience.. one day at a time…

    I have said enough for one day… You all have a wonderful weekday… I will say my goodbyes for now.. since I will be off online for one month til Oct.. hopefully… Big hugs to everyone …. Blessings.

    • Tamera,

      Great talk :)

    • Well said Tamera! thank you! And i have felt also within me (having the Holy Spirit also live in me) His anger towards Suzy’s remarks. I hope that she takes heed on how dangerous a line she is walking. G-d is not one to be mocked! And only a wise person who FEARS G-D would understand this and take the warning. The FEAR of G-D is the beginning of Wisdom, for sure!

      • Lyndsey,
        No one was mocking at God. We all share the same respect to God by my point was to clearly understand the whole story of saying son of God. I’ve already mentioned that I have to believe on Christianity and Judaism before I believe on my religion and this is an essential condition on my religion.
        My questions to you were: WHY would this be in this way and how can that be like that…etc. I never underestimate God or mock on him (God forbid)

        • Mahmoud,

          It is mostly Suzy. Her comments regarding Jesus and the scriptures have been nauseating to say the least and blasphemous.

          It is good that you have that Fear of G-D-this is the beginning of Wisdom. What He gives, He can freely take away.

          Regarding Jesus, I assure you that He is the Messiah written about in the book of Isaiah. I know it can be hard to understand and grasp, for I have been there. Amazingly, it was explained and shown to me by supernatural means because I asked G-D to help me understand who Jesus is and what he did for us on the cross. I have read other testimonies where Jesus has revealed himself. It is truly amazing.

          I was thinking about your comment today regarding that both of us acknowledge that there is only 1 G-d. Where we differ is the reality of His Son, Jesus/Yeshua. I can only explain from my own personal experience. But there is also another difference, which can also be among Christians as well in that most see G-D as a concept-an idea-a “spirit in the sky” who is ready to strike us with lightning. I used to have this same view until I met Jesus-supernaturally-and began to understand that to Fear G-D is also to LOVE HIM and ADORE HIM and to have a RELATIONSHIP with HIM. Instead of praying, G-D, we can pray, Abba Father.

        • For you Mahmoud, please watch, thanks

          http://www.sidroth.org/site/News2?news_iv_ctrl=-1&abbr=tv_&page=NewsArticle&id=7007&security=1041

  183. Mahmoud, Suzy, Lyndsey, Tamera

    I do not have my computer repaired yet, so I am using a library computer. So I have to make this concise.

    Looking at the issues raised:

    1. Al Aqsa mosque was not built by Mohammed. He was dead by then. It was built in 705 CE by Yousef Abu Sneineh.

    2. The bible clearly names Isaac as the sacrificed son. There are no tricks here. The rest of the bible is about his descendants.

    If Ishmael had been the sacrificed son, then the rest of the bible would have been about his descendants. But it isn’t.

    3. Ishmael, like Isaac, had his own destiny.

    Both boys were to be the father of 12 princes. Isaac was to take the land of Canaan. Ishmael was to live in the desert areas, like Saudi Arabia.

    Isaac’s destiny was to have a lineage that would produce the Messiah, Jesus.

    Ishmael was to prosper and be rich in the desert. – which is why his descendants have all the oil wells.

    4. jesus spoke aramaic, and this was fine in Israel. The copies that were preserved were for evangelistic purposes to reach the gentile nations. Since Greek was the universal language in those days, like English is now, the texts, especially by Paul, are written in Greek. I am sure there were Aramaic versions around somewhere at the time also.

    5. Evidence should be by scriptures. Personal logic and opinion are NOT proof.

    6. The Age of the Torah is gotten by adding the BC and the AD (CE) years together. this makes Torah older than Islamic scriptures. Torah is over 3300 years old.

    • correction….mosque not built by Abraham….no record of that…..built much later after 700 CE

      • Well, some references say that it was built by Adam. Anyhow, it is built now :)

        • You may be thinking of the great pyramid. There are some sources that believe that the pyramids were built before the flood of Noah. this would be someone between the time of Adam and Enoch. they have found residue of salt water inside the great pyramid.

          true it is built now.

          But since Solomon’s temple was there before that, the mosque would have been mentioned as being nearby. I do not see that anywhere.

          What you – or others- might be thinking is that this holy site is the site of the garden of eden, where Adam was created. This is why the temple mount is a place of holiness, no matter which religion it is.

          • Marianne,
            I was joking when I said it was built since Adam!
            Either it was built before or after Solomon that does not change anything for me. I just know it as a holy place

  184. Just my opinion…but I think the pyramids were built by the Nephilim. They were the only ones big and strong enought to move the stones and place them. Proof of the Nephilim have been found by Archaeologists. These guys were HUGE.

    • The First Book of Moses, Called
      Genesis
      6

      The Wickedness of Mankind
      1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,

      2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.

      3 And the LORD said, My Spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be a hundred and twenty years.

      4 There were giants Num. 13.33 in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

      5 ¶ And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

      6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.

      7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

      8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. Mt. 24.37 · Lk. 17.26

      • Numbers 13:32 They said, “The land we explored devours those living in it. All the people we saw there are of great size. 33We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them.”

        Marianne, this is a separate post in and of itself!

  185. I do have enough wisdom to know that God Never appears in the form of a man cuz then there would be no difference b/w God and a man. This is my honest belief and understanding based on innate feelings and wisdom.

    If in my lifetime there appears any man who claims to be Divine and/or God then I will poison him.

    Suzy.

  186. Nobody has seen heaven, therefore nobody can describe it fully, neither can anbody encompass what it is. It is beyond our comprehension.

    One thing which is inferred logically is that there must be a supernatural being up there somewhere…..that’s all one can say…anybody who says more is a liar.

    Suzy.

    • Suzy,

      God and his angels and other divine beings are in heaven. God is divine. Angels are divine. The holy spirit is divine. The Cherubim is divine. Other heavenly beings are divine, because they are all of heavenly origin.

      Jesus is divine, because his origin is heavenly. He existed there in heaven with his Father God, and the angels, before he ever came to earth.

      He had a son-father relationship with God before he incarnated on earth. He taught mankind about this relationship.

      God shared his authority with Jesus, so Jesus could perform Father God’s will on earth.

      So Jesus was divine, but took on an earthly form through a miraculous human birth.

      So he was both divine and human.

      At the end of his mission here, he ascended into heaven, and left his human form.

      He is now just in the divine form.

      Do you understand this?

      • It seems in Christianity Son is more important than God himself, or we can put it in others words that All the talk is about the Son and there is hardly any talk of the God. Is this not strange?????

        Read Gospels and all they say is Jesus, Jesus, Jesus,…..The God himself is hiding somewhere in the background……High un-natural…..and ridiculous.

        Suzy.

        • Suzy

          Yes. the gospels are about the teachings of Jesus, so he is in them.

          But Jesus is talking about the Father and the kingdom of God.

          So the Father is there too.

  187. After Prophet Jesus ascension to God’s presence, Christianity began to assume a very different form as it moved out of the Jewish world and into the pagan one. Its traditional monotheism, the basis of the Mosaic law, underwent a great change: Due to the belief in the trinity, Prophet Jesus began to be regarded as divine. (Surely God is beyond all such misguided beliefs and expressions.)

    The concept of the trinity, the culmination of a long process, refers to belief in a three-part God consisting of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. It has become one of traditional Christianity’s most important elements of faith, despite its contradiction of monotheistic belief in God as the One and Only.

    * According to the belief in the trinity, God revealed Himself in three distinct identities, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and yet they are the same thing. In other words, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are God Himself, or God exists as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. According to this irrational and mistaken belief, each of the three components of the trinity is God, and thus possesses the same power and capacity. (Surely God is beyond that!!)

    * It is believed that Prophet Jesus is the son of God, and therefore possesses the same nature as God. This belief, known as homoousian, states that the Father and the Son have the same essence.

    * It is believed that Prophet Jesus was not created, but came from eternity as the son of God, was made flesh and became a human being, and descended from heaven to bring salvation to humanity through his crucifixion. This belief is known as incarnation.

    The belief in the trinity, which is a mistaken one seeing our Almighty Lord through a superstitious eye, ascribes divinity to Prophet Jesus, sent by God as a prophet to his people. However, despite its many internal contradictions and anti-monotheistic nature, it still occupies a very important place in Christian belief. In fact, some Christians consider it a “litmus test” for those who consider themselves to be Christian.

    However, history shows that those people and communities who rejected this erroneous belief and maintained that Prophet Jesus was merely a human being and prophet of God have been dealt with harshly. The evidence that such people produced from the New Testament and the life of Prophet Jesus was always ignored, and people were forbidden to discuss such matters. As we shall see in the following chapters, opponents of belief in the trinity claimed that its proponents openly ascribed partners to God. As a result, church authorities branded them and their followers as unbelievers, heretics, or enemies of the faith. Some were exiled, and others were hanged or burnt alive by the Inquisition’s courts. Yet this did not reduce their numbers or prevent the spread of their ideas. Nonetheless, the proponents of the trinity were always in the majority.

    Even impartial researchers have determined that true Christianity is that muwahhid (monotheistic) Christianity that was oppressed during Europe’s Dark and Middle Ages. Many Biblical scholars, especially those beginning with the eighteenth century, have concluded that the trinity, atonement for sins, and similar beliefs are nowhere to be found in the New Testament or other early Christian scriptures that did not make it into the New Testament.

    One of the most noteworthy aspects of this subject is that trinitarian belief does not appear in the Bible itself. It appears neither in the Old Testament, the holy book of the Jews, nor in the New Testament, the Christian holy text. Rather, it is based on misinterpretations of a few New Testament passages, and the word itself was only used for the first time by Theophilus of Antioch at the end of the second century. Acceptance of the belief took place much later. Given these facts, Biblical researchers and scholars, as well as opponents of the trinity, ask such questions as: If this belief were really true, did Prophet Jesus not state it unequivocally? And why is trinitarian belief not openly stated in the Bible? Their answers are unambiguous: No belief that is not clearly present in the New Testament, and which was thus unknown to the early Christians, can represent the basis of Christianity. This is an error that came about after Prophet Jesus and under the influence of the established Greek [pagan] culture.

    • hi Mahmoud

      I almost agree with you. :)

      1. there is only one God, the Father

      2. But Jesus as his son has a special meaning, and it does not make him equal to the Father. Jesus himself said that the Father was greater than he was.

      see what I said to Suzy about the word “divine”:

      Suzy,

      God and his angels and other divine beings are in heaven. God is divine. Angels are divine. The holy spirit is divine. The Cherubim is divine. Other heavenly beings are divine, because they are all of heavenly origin.

      Jesus is divine, because his origin is heavenly. He existed there in heaven with his Father God, and the angels, before he ever came to earth.

      He had a son-father relationship with God before he incarnated on earth. He taught mankind about this relationship.

      God shared his authority with Jesus, so Jesus could perform Father God’s will on earth.

      So Jesus was divine, but took on an earthly form through a miraculous human birth.

      So he was both divine and human.

      At the end of his mission here, he ascended into heaven, and left his human form.

      He is now just in the divine form.

      Do you understand this?

      3. The “essence” Jesus had requires some discussion. In this limited space, I will just say this:

      Jesus pre-existed in heaven, as other divine beings- God, the angels, etc. All beings were submissive to the Father, who is God.

      Also, before Jesus came to earth, scriptures seem to represent him as the Angel of the Lord. The other arch-angels, like Michael and Gabriel had names. The lesser angels seem to remain un-named.

      Because of his relationship as “son” in heaven, and his mission to earth, to bring God’s Word in person, the Father shared some of his “essence” with Jesus.

      There are scriptures to back this up, but this comment is already getting too long. I have other posts on this.

      So Jesus did possess some of the divine essence of the Father.

      4. Since Jesus was already a being in existence, but without a human body, he “incarnated” into this world through a virgin birth as a human.

      This was so that the message of God to mankind could take on a human and visible form.

      Jesus still retained his divine nature from his heavenly existence, but now also had a human nature as well.

  188. Is the Trinity false?
    First, lets break down the word Trinity and find out what the word means.

    Tri= 3
    Unity = The stateness of being one

    Together those words form the word Trinity

    A 3 in 1 god, and that they are co-eternal and co-equal.
    And you have to think… is the Trinity taught in the Bible? Does it even mention a 3 in 1 god?

    No it does not!!

    The word Trinity does not even exist in the Bible. The real question is: Why do so many practice something that is never mentioned or taught in the Bible?
    So where does this Trinity come from?
    Well, it comes from Ancient Babylon.
    Nimrod, Semiramis, and Tammiz are globally known and worshipped as the ‘Trinity’ or ‘three-in-one-sungod’ in ancient Babylon. Later the Roman Catholic Church would adopt this pagan doctrine and would use these occult gods and their holy days.. as chuch-doctrines, Golds and holy days. In this way Roman Catholic Church copied paganism in churches and it is still existing in all churches today, known as “The Holdy Trinity”.
    It was Roman Emperor Constantinus that sent a paltoon of soldiers to funndamental/biblical Christian leaders.. that did not want to adopt the Trinity. And in this way Constantinus wiped out the Christian resistance… and exiled them for number of years,
    In the same year 325 Constantinus lead the Council of Nicea in which he introduced the basic of the (Babylonian) Trinity as Christian fundament. It was also Contantinus in the same year and Council of Nicaea that erased the bibical Sabbath and changed into the day of Trinity-SunGod (IHS: Isis, Horus and Seth; also known as Baal, Astarte and Tammuz!).
    Now both the Trinity and day of worship were in line with SunGod-Worshipping and it still is in most all Churches. Both Protestant and Catholic!
    During the council of the Constantinopel (381) all facets of the Trinity had been passed. Also, if anyone spoke out against the Trinity, would of been put to death. So in reality, the Trinity was forced on the people.
    The Roman Catholics continued the pagan Trinity in their churches. Also we know the Catholic Trinity, being: The Father God, Mother Mary and the Sonl an exact copy of the pagan Trinity. And wel all know that Mary – the Mother of Jesus – is not a Goddess at all!!! The Protectant-churches have continued the pagan work of the Roman Catholic church and extracted a more biblical ‘Trinity’ from the pagan Catholic Trinity, but still neither the Bible nor the Apostles, nor Jesus speak of ‘a Trinity’!!!

    Still the Protestants make a Trinity God in One from God (The Father), The Son (Jesus) and the Spirit of God.
    In the pagan-Trinity the Spirit is Semiramis and the Son is Tammuz and the Father is Baal. Neither the Bible, nor Jesus or the Apostles talk of a Trinity and that is easy to explain:

    Because it is not a Biblical or Christian basis. As you know now: the Trinity came from pagan-basis.

    We owe it to the Catholic Church that chuchmembers are in fact celibrating days in honour of pagan gods, these gods were even declared ‘saints’ by the same Roman Church.
    God tells us in His Commandments, that He is against any form of paganism!!!! He clearly states in His first Commandment that He and only He is the God you should workship!!! and Carven images are not allowed either!!
    The Trinity is about paganism and worshipping pagan gods. The Trinity is all about ‘sungod-worshipping’.

    I want to ask you to reconsider what you believe and who you workship, and however difficult it may be to ‘get loose or get rid of’ pagain traditions:
    God ask you to worship Him ONLY.

    Worshipping pagan gods i an abomination in the eyes of God.

    Here are clear scriptures that God is One God, and His Glory will He NOT give it to another!!

    Deuteronomy: 6:4
    “Hear, O Israel: Jehovah our God is one Jehovah.”

    Mark 12:29
    ” And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord”

    1 Corinathians 8:4
    “As concerning therfore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is onone other God but one.”

    Isaiah 42:8
    “I am Jehovah, that is my name; and my Glory will I not give another, neither my praise unto graven images”

    Isaiah 43:11
    “I, even I, am Jehovah; and besides me there is no saviour”

    Isaiah 43:12
    “I have declared, and I have saved, and I have showd; and there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and I am God.”

    Here are clear scriptures that God says that He is One! NOT 3 in 1 god. And clear scriptures that He will never give His glory to anyone, for everything belongs to Him, and a scripture that He is GOD.

  189. *muttering softly*

    God is someone we all suppose to love and to honor and to glory with all of our hearts and our minds and our souls… Jesus once said… and Jesus also said ” No one can go to heaven except go through Jesus ” because HE is the door way, the life and the truth… Jesus is like between both worlds.. God’s and human’s… remains me A LOT like ” the word” similar as Holy Spirit that been with God from the beginning.. Sorry, no trinity.. or any such…
    Sounds like people still have trouble grabbing the real meaning of God and his kingdom and the message…
    *sigh* Jesus sent to give us the good news… and taught us… it is US who are ABOUSATELY no excuse to bicker and point fingers at each other who is right or wrong… God is never wrong.. we are. Pure and simple.. Read and learn and follow his footsteps is better than bickering with others.. sorry for my honesty. :)

    Blessings.. closing down computer tonight :( but moving is FUN :) You all take care..

  190. All,

    This is a clip which I would like to share with you. It reflects the message of Islam:

    • Mahmoud,

      Have you watched the videos that we have posted for you? You haven’t commented on them…it is only fair that you watch what we present for you.

    • Guest: Faisal Malick
      September 24-30, 2007
      Faisal, a devout Muslim, had a sudden encounter with God which infused him with the reality of Jesus.

      He wrote a book titled “Here comes Ishmael”. He describes how G-D spoke to him 3x saying, “these (christians) are my children 3x and then a veil came off of his eyes and HE KNEW that Jesus IS the SON of G-D!

      http://www.sidroth.org/site/News2?news_iv_ctrl=-1&abbr=tv_&page=NewsArticle&id=6699&security=1041

      • G-d tells Faisal, again, 3x, “I love you son, I love you son, I love you son”

      • The interesting part of the whole video was to cure Muslims from Terrorism as stated in the adverstiement using the book of this person :) which terrorism exactly? We never seen it here at all I personally have been in Middle East (which is known to be the source of terrorism) for 30 years and I never seen it :)

        LOL.. This Cure of Terrorism makes me laugh!!

        I could see that the whole idea of interviewing this gentle man is to is promote a book with $20 “including shipping” which is cool thing and no harm with it. People are utilizing religion to earn money when they do not have proper resources of money. The cool thing was the title of the book “This Book Reveals God’s Destiny for Muslims & Jews!” In my opinion this is purely terrorism my friend.

        When God told him: I love you son x 3, did he mean that he wanted to adopt him as his 2nd son? Does he want to sacrifice a new son and clear the sins of humanity again?
        WHY should I believe him and relate what he saw to GOD?!! God is more than our imagination, God is MUCH bigger than a creature who comes in a conference room among university students, He definitely has other important things to like controlling the balance of the universe instead of convincing a Pakistani guy to become christian

        Why would God leave other people and go specifically to this guy? He better target the most religious people in the islamic world or Rabbis!!

        This guy is full of lies because he says that he never heard the word of love in Islam! Well, he is full of lie or stupid because Islam means PEACE and it is based on PEACE, and the world PEACE injects love to it because you can not have peace without love. Moreover, one of the essential points in Islam that every muslim should have is: “The person should love to others as he/she love to him/her self” and this contradicts with what he said because he is lying.

        Lyndsey, as a mature-educated lady you should not accept everything shown via the media or posted over internet. I assure you that this person is having interest behind this job and he wants to make money out of it.

        Please do not misunderstand me. There could be many people becoming christians and many christians becoming muslims but this person specifically is full of lie.

  191. Marianne,
    Is it compulsory that I have to comment on the videos you port? If this is one of the conditions of the site set by the administrator then I will consider it :)

    PS: I hope you fixed your computer. If you need any help please feel free to contact me as I am an IT security consultant ;)

    • It isn’t a condition of the site, but if your wanting us to view your videos then it is only right and fair that you view ours.

      • The video I posted for you last night is of a former muslim. He wrote a book, titled “inside Islam”
        Reza Safa is a former Muslim who now has a television network that reaches Farsi-speaking people with the gospel.

        He states that Islam is that of HATE and NOT LOVE. He also said that the Koran is written in such a way that it is too confusing to read it-there is no order to it-and that he was amazed at how the Holy Scriptures were orderly, easy to understand and spoke of LOVE-NOT HATE

    • dear Mahmoud

      I have not posted any videos for you. Visitors on this page can post their own videos, just like you have.

      You can comment on whatever you want.

      No one is discussing, right now, the topic on this page anyhow!

  192. Lyndsey,
    We are not here to argue if my religion or yours are correct or not. My video was generic about the way of communicating with people and this is how Quran interprets it.

    You can not judge if the Quran was written in confusing way or not because simply you do not understand the language of Quran. Additionally, you should not rely on one person’s feedback and ignore millions throughout the world. God has given us brains to think and logic to sense and figure out things.

    I think when scientists’ (none-Muslims) give positive and accurate feedbacks about Quran that it is well organized and tell things we have been discovering and they say that it reveals new miracles then this implies that your Mr. Reza Safa has lack of comprehensive abilities and he does not know how to read :).

    You could easily check the ratio of people converting to Islam from all countries and nationalities, check the ratios in Europe and the US specifically, WHY is that? Do all these people see that what they read is confusing? Do they all see that it is the religion of HATE (as you named it)?! Definitely it seems that it makes sense for them to follow this religion.

  193. Concept of GOd having son is not new!!!! Greeks had such notions all along. So Christianity did not present anything new.

    Why would God need a Son is beyond my comprehension. God is supposed to be a being devoid of any needs. If God has no needs then why would he want a Son.

    Such gigantic being as God would have only one Son! Just imagine. If he so much wanted a son he should have unlimited Sons all made of light.

    There cant be room for two Gods let alone umlimted number of Gods.

    More than one GOd would make God non-Unique. Moreover multiple Gods would then fight with each other to gain supermacy over each other.

    These ladies are duped with Jesus and their minds are trapped in it, there is little chance they can come out of it.

    God is greater than Son but Gospel spends all the time on talking about Jesus. What do we know about God from Gospels, NOTHING.

    In any society there are people who are “Followers”, these followers dont have much of a mind of their own. A missionary comes along and dupes them with some concept, and there you go, for the rest of their life they rant Jesus, Jesus, Jesus,……

    Suzy.

    • Suzy

      The fact that God chose to “have a son” being beyond your comprehension is irrelevant.

      God can do whatever he wants, and does not need your permission.

      God chose Jesus in heaven to have a father-son relationship with him. Jesus had a higher position than the angels. he was special.

      If you learn nothing from the gospels, then you should just quit here, and go back to school. Even atheists will admit that there is wisdom in the gospels.

      Someday, you will “rant Jesus, Jesus, Jesus” in hell, if you do not quit attacking him.

  194. It is proven beyond any doubt that Christianity is a bogus religion. Emperor Constantine used it to expand his control over people, later Church ages further screwed it up to control masses.

    Now both Constantine and Church age is gone therefore it right time to defunct Christianity and save people from falsehood. People should be put to better use than just sit and rant Jesus.

    Suzy.

    • Should we rant, “Suzy, Suzy, Suzy” instead?

      There is nothing bogus about the teachings of Jesus, or biblical Christianity.

      I follow Jesus, not Constantine.

      If you want to complain about Catholic church, you should go to one of their sites.

      My site observes biblical Christianity, not Catholic church.

  195. It always takes a vision/dream to become Christian, ha ha ha ha,

    Wasnt it the same case with Saint Paul, on the road to Damascus.

    Thanks for Faisal Maick info, it was fun, I could not help but laugh and roll…….Who will verify what they heard,and more importantly who will verify who called……could be a deception from Satan……Peopl in all such cases have broken lives and they are half carzy and they hear voices due to their madness……….

    All the objective study and reasoning goes out the windows, just an unknow voice is enough to overrule all sanity,… LOL…..

    Such drama is not unexpected as we do live in troubled and perilous times…..more drama will unfold with time…..

    I encourage you to carry out objective study of 5 major religions of the time before you commit to anyone. Always be rational in your comments and views. Ranting is out of the domain of rationality.

    Suzy.

  196. Suzy,

    Nice comment :)
    Apart from that and as I quoted that this guy wants to sell his book.. Cure from Terrorism :) Really FUNNY!! He also could feel the Bible papers getting inside his heart as he was reading it :| What a feeling.. The Holy Books are more of understanding and feeling.. it is not about feeling the cover of the book or its papers getting inside him :)

  197. And dont forget the magic……If you read the history of magic you will find that Jews learnt magic from the days of Solomon. There does exist people who control spirits and demons, and they could use this to convert people. No wonder they separated a space on the front row fro Faisal Malick…..ha ha ha ha …….

    Moreover the guys english is too good to be called pakistani born………ha ha ha ha ha ha …….This most likely is a well planned scam……

    Also I wouldnt be surprsied of some kind of wave technology is used to interact with the body and create sensation…….

    But most likely it is just a scam, the guy got the money in return for showing himself of be a conversion from ISlam.

    Suzy.

  198. and Canada is well known for magic….. I have 2nd hand experience wth jews in canada who can do magic. You can literally feel the presence of somebody as I have been told by people on whom magic was done…. though it was not the case of conversion.

    Canada is notorious for magic.

    Suzy.

    • This reminds me of Moses. G-D told moses to go before Pharoah and throw down his stick at Pharoahs feet. The stick turned into a snake. Then Pharoah brought in his 2 magicians who also turned their sticks into snakes…..G-D’s snake ATE the other 2 snakes. Moses picked up the snake and it turned back into a stick. Do you understand the point that G-D was making? Yes there is magic in the world which comes from Lucifer thru magicians etc….however, G-D’s POWER supercedes theirs-G-d’s 1 snake overpowered pharoah’s 2 snakes and consummed them.

  199. Both Suzy and Mahmoud

    True Christianity has nothing to do with the flesh, or earthly nature.

    It has to do with a spiritual relationship with God, not one established in fear or rules, but in love.

    If there is no feeling, there is no true faith.

    True, to be a Christian, the Word of God and his Spirit has to be inside of us. That is the definition of a “born again Christian.”

    Otherwise it is just man’s spirit, and his thoughts, which are corrupt.

    Mocking proves nothing.

    The love of God and his holy Spirit is everything to me.

    God loves me!

  200. People convert from one religion to another, this quite common these days. But the point is that Conversion to Christianity is due to Vision/Dream.

    Now here is a lady called Ingrid Mattson who converted to Islam from Christianity. The link to Youtube is following:

    Marianne I want to know what you think about Ingrid Mattson. To help you i am listing down choices for your answers to make things easy for you:

    1. Ingrid is carzy
    2. Ingrid is fooled
    3. Ingrid is a slut
    4. Ingrid is lost
    5. Ingrid is blessed

    Suzy.

    • 1,2,4

      I am not watching videos right now. They mess up my computer.

      The real issue is whether this is the right decision.

      This is her choice.

  201. Marianne,
    God l